# Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Old Thread http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/604063-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread.html

So get talking and shit. About DVD's. And Matches. And Shows. And Discuss. Wait. Something is wrong there.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Are KOK and I the only ones around here that think Rock/Austin WM 19 is better than Rock/Austin WM 17?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You move fast, Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alim said:


> Are KOK and I the only ones around here that think Rock/Austin WM 19 is better than Rock/Austin WM 17?


Nope .



Starbuck said:


> You move fast, Cal.


Indeed I do!

Explains why I can't get a girlfriend these days too... :side:.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jesus that was fast Cal

Anyways, I prefer Austin/Rock WM19 to WM17 by a decent margin, but I still adore both of them


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd still have Austin/Rock WM17 over their match from WM19. Not by much though.

Just re-watched Unforgiven 2000. What's everybody's thoughts on the Hardys/E&C cage match?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I thought that the storytelling in the WM 19 match really put it over the top. WM 17 had the benefit of being a No DQ match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I like W17 better. Loved how both man would do everything in their power to beat each other and at the end, Austin needed help from McMahon to win. W19 is awesome too. Austin sells the third Rock Bottom like he has just been shot in the back lol. Great stuff. 

Rock was the better performer in W19 but Austin was the better performer in W17 IMO. I still need to watch their first Mania match, it must be good considering it made KOK's top 50 Mania matches


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wm 19 is better


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I think 17 and 19 are close, but if I had to give one the edge, I'd give it to 17. The atmosphere was pretty epic, for that one.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

I'd say X-7 is a better match, I just enjoy XIX a bit more.

Backlash '99 is better than both IMO.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RIP Old Thread. 

Rock/Austin WM17>WM19. Both are classics.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Any good Rock TV matches??


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fuck, I miss the old thread! <3 

ROCK/Austin WM17 > WM19 but both are excellent and classics.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Any good Rock TV matches??


Don't remember how good they are, but Rock/Triple H had a match on Raw on 5/25/98 and Rock/Taker vs Edge/Christian 12/18/00 Raw. Haven't seen either match in a WHILE, but both matches are on the newest Rock DVD/Blu ray.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Austin-Rock WM 19 > WM 17 for me. 

Friends am I crazy for liking Warrior/Savage WM VII more than Savage/Steamboat WM III? Watched both twice in the last couple days and each time enjoyed Savage/Warrior more, which is crazy because I in no way have ever really enjoyed Warrior's work. Easily his greatest match imo.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Austin & Rocky

19 > 17 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 15


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Any good Rock TV matches??


Rock/Trips on the first Smackdown for the title (HBK special ref)
Rock/Sock vs New Age Outlaws for the tag titles on Smackdown (October 1999)
Rock/Austin vs New Age Outlaws (around the same time as Rock/Sock against the Outlaws) DX reformed as a heel faction after the match 

The tag matches are great for atmosphere, don't know about match quality. 

Rock's best matches were on PPV. Rock/Trips ladder match at Summerslam for the IC title is one of the greatest Summerslam matches ever, I think.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock-Austin XIX > Rock-Austin X-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rock-Austin BL > Rock-Austin WM XV >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Other Ones.

Punk-Cena >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rock-Austin.

unk2 :cena3


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm still mad with WWE about October.

Cena/Punk was set for HIAC. Yeah Cena's arm was bad but fuck he's proven he can still go even not at 100% and this was their blow off match, the defining match of the PG era, Foley & Punk perfectly hyped this bad boy up and i was pumped for a huge title match at HIAC.

Then what do they do? gave a fucking title shot to RYBACK? Ryback? The guy had reached the heights of beating Primo & Epico in one match 8*D
He was not WWE CHAMPIONSHIP shot material. WWE robbed me of my era defining match and gave me a pretty poorly executed 12 minute HIAC match with the most pathetic referee turn. 

Fuck you WWE.

Give me Punk/Cena fort the title after mania please.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was so fucking hyped for that Cell Match.... Fuck you Ryback.

When you really sit and think about it though, Punk-Cena kinda REALLY blows Rock-Austin out of the water all things considered, I mean let`s compare shall we ?

MITB 2011 >>> WM XIX
SS 2011 > WM X-7 (OPINION, REMEMBER)
NOC 2011 >>>>>> BL 99
RAW 2/13 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WM XV
RAW 8/11 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anything else they've done.

:cena3


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Okay so i rewatched the most polarising match of 2013 so far.

*Rock vs. Punk*
*Royal Rumble*

I have watched this three times now and after being told by my friend to watch it again and appreciate it's greatness i just can't.

It's awful. The structure or actually lack of is just too eye opening to ignore, it's like they were ready backstage, knowing what they were going to go and do for the biggest title match in a long time and then were told not to do their original plan but not told what to do otherwise. They looked lost out there. I LOVE Punk and i appreciate what Rock has done in the past and was hoping for a clash of styles type of match, i got nothing of the sort.

The ending is god awful fpalm (Michael Cole "THE SHIELD, CHIODA IT WAS THE SHIELD!!!!!!1!1" was just so loud and unnecessary, seriously Cole, check out JR's reactions to big events and take notes) 
Rock having the authority to have his match re-started was outlandish (Kayfabe i know)

Urgh i couldn't hate this match more 

*DUD. DUD. DUD.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

RenegadexParagon said:


> I'd say X-7 is a better match, I just enjoy XIX a bit more.
> 
> Backlash '99 is better than both IMO.


That's a fair summary. While the feud was happening in those years, I actually wasn't a huge Rock/Austin mark. Years later though, I've come to appreciate their matches and feud very, very much. Without a doubt, the biggest box-office feud/matches in WM history and they have alot better chemistry than I noticed back in those years. As far as match quality, the only ones who top them are HBK/Taker. And to be honest, Rock/Austin aren't that far behind. Their matches were that good and their chemistry was that great. Business wise, they were the best, bar none, won't get any argument from me there. Hell, when you have 3 WM main events, you're doing something (VERY) right. Kudos to those guys. Unfortunately, I doubt we ever see another Rock/Austin ever again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It was below average at best until all the shenanigans started happening, then it just went to a new level of bad.

Oh well, I guess we were just spoiled by Punk's epic reign that we had to be let down some time, it's a shame that The Rock was the one to end it and not somebody like Cena or Sheamus but what can you really do ?

Rock-Austin have the two AWESOME matches and not much else after that to be honest, whereas Punk-Cena have four matches that I would call classics and another handful of GREAT matches as well.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> The ending is god awful fpalm (Michael Cole "THE SHIELD, CHIODA IT WAS THE SHIELD!!!!!!1!1" was just so loud and unnecessary, seriously Cole, check out JR's reactions to big events and take notes)[/B]


You're so right. I wish JBL had knocked his ass out.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Totally agreed, EverWolf. That awful ending took it do dudsville especially. Their effort at EC is at least passable though. Not great by any means though. What a disappointment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Michael Cole is Bobby Heenan compared to Jerry Lawler, who should be euthanized immediately.

EDIT : We're not alone *Alim*, as Cody and Cal love them some Wrestlemania XIX as well. Cody pretty much believes it's nothing special IIRC.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

At a crossroads right now where I want to start going through a year of wrestling through one brand. My options for myself are Raw '05, Raw '04, Smackdown '03, Raw '97 or Smackdown '02.

Of course I'll also have to find said season once I decide. Also plan on going through ECW but '08 and '09 are all on Hulu Plus which I still have, so I don't have to worry there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Those are some good options. If you're a big time BROCK mark then go with SD 2003, but if not... Then do a coin toss between RAW 2004 and RAW 2005. Actually... they're all good so just look at what's on tap or throw a dart at a dartboard to choose randomly :lol.

RAW 97 has SHAWN ON COKE though. Smackdown 2002 has THE SMACKDOWN SIX. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Michael Cole is Bobby Heenan compared to Jerry Lawler, who should be euthanized immediately.
> 
> EDIT : We're not alone *Alim*, as Cody and Cal love them some Wrestlemania XIX as well. Cody pretty much believes it's nothing special IIRC.


This is true. Thanks to the grand scale it is received on. Hell of an electric atmosphere. That's about it for me. 28 minutes of it, yeah, I tend dip in and out of my interest while watching it.

1st post in here. Lets see if I can make it to nearly 2000 again.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Austin & Rocky
> 
> 19 > 17 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 15


Agree. The fact that WM15 is perhaps the worst match they ever had says alot about their feud. Like I said, as the feud was happening, I actually (for some reason I can't even explain) wasn't in love with it as much as seemingly everyone else was around me. Still found it entertaining and fun and all that, but I wasn't going nuts about it while pretty much every other wrestling fan in the world was. But now years later with some more perspective about the feud and matches, it was GREAT, and not just because it was the biggest drawing feud in history, but because the matches and promos were fucking awesome. Their Backlash and WM 15 matches being the bottom two matches of their feud is pretty impressive, as well. If pressed, I'd have to say I think their WM 19 & 17 matches are both better than Cena/Punk MITB. If only more wrestlers could have the chemistry of Rock/Austin, Punk/Cena, and HBK/Taker :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash '99 match OWNS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ SummerSlam 2011 being better than WM17. I can't believe just how boring that match was when I rewatched it. Nothing more than a dull rehashed version of MITB.

On another note, I'm finally done with my Orton vs Cena series. Definitely not gonna bother with another one of these. Gets a bit stale watching the same two individuals go at it repeatedly. 



Spoiler: reviews



*Raw 14/11/2005 (The Eddie Guerrero Tribute)*
Since this is the Eddie Guerrero tribute show, Cena comes out with a "I'm Your Papi" t-shirt and wears it even while he wrestles. They get about 5 minutes to go and for the time they get, they manage to make as much out of it as they can. Orton still overdoes it a bit with his headlocks for such a short match but they don't last very long which makes the match more watchable. Orton dominates most of the first half but then midway through, both men are down and when they make it to their feet, Cena supermans his way into the 5 moves of doom and as he's about to give Orton the FU, "Cowboy" Bob Orton interferes which results in the disqualification finish. Cena beats both Ortons post-match for the "happy ending" as he takes off his shirt and leaves it in the middle of the ring along with the WWE Championship as a show of respect to Eddie. A very nice ending and the match wasn't terrible by any means. *★★*

*Raw 19/2/2007*
One thing I notice about Orton during this period of time is how "fat" he looks. He's so huge, the steroid abuse is just obvious and I think it was around this time when he attempted to commit suicide. Thankfully, he survived and became a bit skinnier after that summer. Now onto the match, this goes on for double the amount of time from the previous match which is a sign of good things to come. First thing I notice is how much Cena has improved as a performer here. He doesn't lazily lay around and then go for the 5 moves of doom after no selling and Orton is as good as ever. He's smoother with his style and more crisp and methodical which is the wrestling style that has become his trademark as time has went on. They both divide their offense almost evenly and most signatures are hit, something that usually makes matches better than they would normally be. I also found Cena's own impression of "hulking up" a bit funny after taking several right hands from Orton. Cena almost has the FU executed until Edge interferes and gives Cena the spear for the DQ ending. Edge and Orton are about to destroy Cena until Shawn Michaels comes to the rescue. This was a pretty good first "real" match between Orton and Cena but still not truly displaying the greatness these two would be capable of in a singles match given more time with a real finish. I also have to say the commercial break was taken at the worst time possible when Orton looked like he was about to hit Cena with a chair. Other than that, pretty good TV match. *★★★*

*Raw 7/5/2007*
To go along with my first words on the match above, Orton looks a little bit smaller here and interestingly enough, Jerry Lawler makes some comments about Orton having his demons and overcoming them. The commentary on Orton's personal life is actually the most interesting part of this match. Barely over 3 minutes, there's nothing memorable here. Orton builds some momentum then goes back to his reverse chinlock before Cena reverts to the same ol' 5 moves of doom. Patterned like the previous matches, as Cena sets Orton up for the FU, there's interference/distraction, this time in form of The Great Khali walking around the ring, stealing the WWE Championship and walking away with it as Cena attempts to stop him only to take a belt shot to the head followed by the show fading to black. Meh. *★¼*

_*SummerSlam 2007*_
Finally, we have gotten to this point. These guys were opponents on two different occasions in PPV but both were multi-man matches so this is the true "official showdown". Crowd is very loud and a large portion of them are anti-Cena which results in a split crowd. Absolutely loved this one as they finally get over 20 minutes to just go at it and put on a memorable classic that they're capable of. I see that this is the period where Orton is slowly making the transition from the Legend Killer to the Viper (I could swear that JR even makes a comment about him being Viper-like during the match) so this suits his methodical style perfectly. He also meshes well with the more energetic Cena who often works from the bottom.

Like it always is with heel Orton, they start off with some chinlocks and as soon as Cena tries a comeback, Orton ducks out of the way from the predictable shoulder block. Although Cena is on the offense at some parts of the match, Orton dominates the majority with some great, cold characteristics to go along with. He uses his moveset smartly and his ring psychology here is top notch. Instead of acting desperately, he wears down Cena slowly and to suit his character, he never shows any frustration that heels usually display. Cena starts making a comeback towards the end but his momentum gets stopped by an inverted backbreaker after which Orton attempts to use the punt kick. Here also comes the finishing stretch which I loved. Cena plays possum and catches Orton off-guard after he misses the punt which gets countered to an STFU. Orton makes it to the ropes and when Cena walks up to him, there's the RKO out of nowhere but Orton sells the leg injury from the pressure that the STFU puts on it very well and slowly goes for the pin so that Cena's kick-out doesn't damage the RKO's credibility. Here's my only issue with the finish. Cena takes an RKO, but less than a minute after it as Orton wants to give him another one, he completely no-sells the move, hits a quick FU and goes for the pin real fast for the victory. It's a minor issue but not enough to bring down the match's overall quality. Best one between them so far but I expect that to change for the rest of their series. *★★★★*

*Unforgiven 2007*
This match has no purpose other than to advance the Orton/Cena storyline. Right after SummerSlam, Orton punted Cena's father in the head and the story turned into hatred between them and deeper than just about the WWE Championship. Match lasts about 7 minutes and Orton barely gets any offense in. When he does, it's just that damn chinlock again (and the spike DDT). Otherwise, Cena hits him with punches and clothesline for the rest of the match. That's also how things end when Cena refuses to let go of Orton on the corner which results in Orton winning by disqualification. Post-match, Orton tries to punt Cena Sr. again only to get locked in the STFU followed by Mr. Cena giving him a punt of his own instead. Do people seriously waste money at times just to pay for this? I guess Undertaker's return that night kept them "safe" for WWE to go through with this waste of time. *★*

*No Way Out 2008*
Right before their planned Last Man Standing match at No Mercy, Cena tore his pectoral muscle the week before and they used Orton to write him off. In the meanwhile, Orton won the WWE Championship and continued to hold onto it for several months. Cena made his surprise return at the 2008 Royal Rumble and won the whole thing. With the new build heat between the two characters, Cena rushed his title shot and used it at the pay-per-view before Wrestlemania 24, which results in this match.

Here they continue their prematurely stopped feud and what we get is an excellent match. Their offense is paced well, Cena does a great job as the babyface chasing the championship and trying to get back what he was forced to vacate while Orton plays the heartless heel as well as he's ever been. Just a great in-ring match with both hitting their signature spots at the right time and everything clicks together for the 15 or so minutes this match lasts. It really gets great towards the end when Orton gets desperate and exits the ring in an attempt to retain by countout. Then the finish is smartly done as Cena successfully enters the ring after taking an RKO on the outside, even more outraged. As he challenges Orton to fight him, Orton, like a true heel, takes the easy way out by slapping the referee to cause a disqualification. He takes a FU & STFU post-match but it doesn't matter anymore since he still has the title and Cena been robbed of his "Wrestlemania dreams". I found the crowd reaction hilarious as the disqualification was heavily cheered and Cena even got "Na-na-na-na-hey-hey-hey-goodbye" chants afterward. Also worth mentioning is the countout part when both men were trading punches as the referee was almost done with the ten count. *★★★★½*

*Raw 18/2/2008*
After screwing Cena out of his Wrestlemania opportunity, Orton is forced to wrestle him again the night after No Way Out and if Cena wins, he'll be a part of the WWE Championship match involving Orton and Triple H. To add to the story, Triple H is the guest referee here too. Match is nothing special but just decent for a TV match. Orton controls most of it then Cena makes a comeback with his 5 moves of doom. Right after, Orton finds himself in the STFU but makes it to the ropes. Cena and HHH have a little staredown but Orton tries to run into Cena only to get FU'd for the 1,2,3. HHH gives both men a Pedigree after the match to set off the three way feud. *★★½*

*Raw 12/5/2008*
For the second year in a row, these two are paired on the go-home show for Judgment Day. This time they get more than 3 minutes to work with so that's better. I really enjoyed this, plenty of decent ring action with some back and forth offense from both guys. Well paced and worked. Could have been a great match given PPV time and a proper finish, though. A screwjob finish comes as it usually is with TV matches before a PPV when William Regal appoints JBL (Cena's PPV opponent) as the special referee. JBL gives Cena a boot to the face followed by a fast count so Orton wins. Orton's own opponent in Triple H turns up post-match to end the show in typical faces over heels fashion as Orton goes through a steel cage before their actual cage match. This was decent to be exact. *★★½*

*SummerSlam 2009*
So here we are and this is where they get to have match after match on pay-per-view every month. Many may not have liked it but I like it more than anything not involving part-timers from this year. The match itself is worse than I remember it being. For the first ten or so minutes before the overbooking takes place, the action is very slow with Orton playing up his methodical "Viper" shtick except he's rather boring here compared to the prior 2 years when he was a lot more entertaining in the ring. Cena doesn't do much other than the 5 moves of doom but he starts taking control before Orton intentionally disqualifies himself to escape the big bad Cena. From then on, it's a clusterfuck. Match is restarted but it wont take long before Orton gets himself counted out to retain only for another restart to happen then he pins Cena using the ropes only for another restart to happen then he's in the STF but somebody interferes (Brett DiBiase?) which causes another mess that Orton capitalizes from by RKOing Cena on the ropes followed by another one for the successful pinfall victory. Match was not really doing any well before the overbooking started but after that, it just got confusing and tiring to watch. It was shenanigans upon shenanigans within the space of minutes and it kind of ruined the match. *★¼*

*Breaking Point 2009*
After the SummerSlam shenanigans, the two were booked for Breaking Point in an "I Quit" match with any interference in Orton's favor banned. Cena's "I Quit" was doing well with an excellent classic match with JBL from 2005. Here things are different and SuperCena has been alive for several years. On to the match, they start slowly inside the ring with Cena getting in a couple of moves before Orton takes control and circles him all over the place with his methodical offense. Cena gets some momentum with the five moves of doom before Orton takes control again for nearly the whole match from then on. For about 10 minutes from there, Orton takes control and punishes Cena slowly with handcuffs to the ropes, kendo sticks, chair shots and all of that while Cena's answer to every time he's asked about quitting is the same, a simple "No". Ultimately, SuperCena recovers and completely no-sells all the work Orton has been doing on him into the last couple of minutes when he handcuffs his hand with Orton's and throws the keys away to prevent Orton from escaping. As they enter the ring, an RKO from out of nowhere is hit after which Orton tries to go for the keys to free himself from the handcuffs but Cena gets up and after a struggle, locks in the STF which Orton submits to (quits). I think Orton, despite being very slow, did a great job as the sadistic heel that would have no limits in his mission to get his opponent to quit while the terrible SuperCena booking ruined it a bit. Still not that much and the Cena comeback is not as horrible as I remember it being. Overall, it's a good match but it's nowhere near the JBL "I Quit" match and definitely not as bad as the Miz match. *★★★¼*

*Hell in a Cell 2009* 
After having feuded for so long and gone through so much including an "I Quit" match, time for getting locked inside the Hell in a Cell structure that usually closes intense feuds. Not quite the case here as they still had one more big stipulation match to spend the following month. Onto the match, Orton talks about how he will do anything to become the champion while Cena talks about the usual shit on the build-up. Not really much to go off of but for the match they put on, I enjoyed it - more than the latest watch. The cell is barely used other than a few minutes in the beginning but that's become the norm with PG era cell matches so I don't concentrate on it much. It also makes the match more meaningful as the beginning of it was pretty dumb. Why would Orton challenge for the title and then try to escape the cell? Made no sense but thankfully, it can be overlooked as they go on when the match gets far better as purely in-ring with minor weapon use occasionally. Cena mostly sells or uses his signature spots while Orton carries the match for the most part. He's just so good at being the psycho, methodical heel to the point you think it's not the same guy with that smirk calling himself the Legend Killer. He works on Cena in desperate heelish fashion and I really enjoyed it even when he's moving very slowly. Towards the end when Cena kicks out of the RKO, I like his facial expression as he shows even more desperation and chokes Cena on the ropes followed by the devastating punt kick that gets him back the title. Only other issue I have is Cena making Orton tap with the STF when the referee was down. It was meaningless and pretty much an excuse to make sure Cena doesn't take a clean pinfall loss. The complaints aside, this was a decent and standard match between the two that still feels rather different to the previous "I Quit" match. *★★★*

*Bragging Rights 2009*
They've battled each other several times throughout the years and even been through some gimmick matches including "I Quit" and Hell in a Cell, so it's only fitting they close this lengthy feud with an Ironman match to settle their differences once and for all. In addition, it is "anything goes" so they wont be limited to just wrestling in the ring. First 60-minute ironman match since Benoit vs Triple H from 2004 and funnily enough, both take place in the same arena in Pittsburgh, PA. I like how they work this one as it starts with some standard in-ring battle between them then Cena catches Orton slipping for the STF which results in Orton handing over the first fall to not take any damage from the hold. Smart heel work in the same vein as Lesnar using a chair to assault Angle. After that, the wrestling is toned down and it turns more into a brawl that goes around the arena, in and out of the ring. They even do a cool double-finisher spot and pin each other at the same time which gives each one fall. After Legacy interfere briefly (before Kofi Kingston chases them away with a chair), Orton starts to take over and heels it up even more by taking Cena to the stage area and whipping him through the lights for the set. One of the more memorable parts follows as he sets Cena up on the ramp and plays with the pyrotechnique to actually attempt blowing him up. Cena obviously moves out of the way but I thought this was awesome. Orton dominates a large part of the match after this and Cena pretty much spends most of it selling. In the last ten minutes, it's just standard babyface comeback for Cena. He gets an adrenaline rush and Orton with 5-4 in the lead works as the heel by trying to stay away from Cena and let the time end. Eventually, he can escape Cena for so long before he gets a taste of his own medicine with the steel steps before taking an Attitude Adjustment through the announce table which evens the score. After that, he gets a bit of protection in defeat by successfully hitting the RKO but the referee being down during the pin. End of the match comes with Orton going crazy and setting up the punt kick only for Cena to avoid it and get the STF locked in for the last minute which Orton finds himself in for so long but not enough to last the final 5 seconds without tapping out. That is my gripe with the finish as it makes no sense for Orton to stay in the hold for almost one minute but submit in the last 5 seconds. Otherwise, this was a solid match and even though it's not the best ironman match I've seen, I still enjoyed it. Orton, in particular, makes the 60 minutes an enjoyable experience. *★★★¾*

*Raw 14/12/2009*
Their lengthy rivalry has now come to an end but the Ironman match was not the closing chapter for their one-on-one encounters in 2009 as they have this one match in the Slammy Awards episode too. The winner becomes the Superstar of the Year award winner so that's pretty much it. The match is a standard 10 minute TV match with nothing special taking place. Orton dominates most of the first half then Cena returns with his five moves of doom before they attempt their finishers on each other until Cena successfully hits the FU. Surprisingly, that wasn't it as Orton got hold of the ropes before the three count. He then DDTs Cena outside the ring and after getting him back in, Cena kicks out. Orton goes for the punt then Cena dodges it and successfully hits the FU again for the victory. Pretty standard to say the least. *★★*

*Raw 13/9/2010*
The week before Night of Champions and they have their first ever face vs face match here. It's on Raw Roulette so a stipulation usually comes with it and here we have a tables match. Nothing different to the usual in the beginning and there's some good exchanges with the signatures spots until Cena gets Orton in the STF and after that, it turns into a lengthy segment of interference. Nexus enter the ring and assault both men but somehow, Orton and Cena end up getting the upper-hand with most Nexus members put through tables all around the ring. After that, Edge and Jericho interfere which ends with Edge trying to Spear Orton but he moves out of the way and Jericho takes a botched Spear through the table in the corner. Sheamus is the last to appear but he gets an AA from Cena pretty quick and the finish finally comes with Cena setting Orton up for an AA through a table but Orton reverses it to an RKO for the victory. Not a bad match but nothing special, specially compared to what they are really capable of. *★¾*

*Raw 25/10/2010*
The final match between these up to this point and it's for the stipulation of Barrett vs Orton at Survivor Series. If Cena wins, Barrett gets to chooses the guest referee and the rest is history. At almost 15 minutes, these two just put on a good in-ring match with some good back and forth. Nothing out of the ordinary and seeing Orton as the WWE Champion being well protected makes me long for those days as opposed to the awful garbage we've been enduring for the past year. Orton even gets to kick out of an AA clean in the middle of the ring which surprised me. After that, he gets the RKO in but Cena rolls out of the ring. Orton takes him back in to set up for the punt but then Barrett rolls him out and attacks him for the DQ victory in Cena's favor which allows Barrett to pick Cena as his guest referee. Barrett and Nexus played the heels so well, it almost makes even his haters sympathize with Cena as he's not knowing what to do and even with the high stakes, refuses to have Barrett cheat to help him. But the ending also made me think, why didn't Barrett just attack Cena from the beginning and get it over with? Well, even though this was okay, I think Cena and Orton need to have another huge match up in the future at a PPV. *★★¼*


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Any good Rock TV matches??


Kane vs The Rock in a No Holds Barred match on Smackdown 99 is a very fun match. His match with Eddie on Raw 02 is another fun TV match. I remember being excited to see Eddie Guerrero and The Rock working a match with each other.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Wake up and it's a new thread now. 

Rip Old thread 

What have I missed? A lot of Austin/Rock talk which I can't discuss until my Wm list is done. 

But agree with KOK Cena/Punk>>>>>>>>>Austin/Rock

Great rock TV matches I can only think of that 10 man tag on raw in 2000, and I remember a tv match against Flair that was fun as hell.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Good write up C2D (Y)

Let's see here

Raw 14/11/2005 (The Eddie Guerrero Tribute) ****
Raw 19/2/2007
Raw 7/5/2007
SummerSlam 2007 ****1/4*
Unforgiven 2007 *DUD* Advanced the story i know but it's an awful match from an awful PPV
No Way Out 2008 ******
Raw 18/2/2008 ****
Raw 12/5/2008
SummerSlam 2009
Breaking Point 2009 *****
Hell in a Cell 2009 ***1/4*
Bragging Rights 2009 I've never seen this and i don't think i ever will. AN HOUR? No chance
Raw 14/12/2009
Raw 13/9/2010
Raw 25/10/2010 **1/2*

Very rusty on my Cena/RKO matches but i've never been too enthralled by their feud and/or matches. Decent chemistry but not blockbuster chemistry.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Those are some good options. If you're a big time BROCK mark then go with SD 2003, but if not... Then do a coin toss between RAW 2004 and RAW 2005. Actually... they're all good so just look at what's on tap or throw a dart at a dartboard to choose randomly :lol.
> 
> RAW 97 has SHAWN ON COKE though. Smackdown 2002 has THE SMACKDOWN SIX. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.


COKEBK, Bulldog/Owen, Austin, Shamrock, Taker, Vader, Goldust, etc make me want to watch the '97 shows but at the same time I'm feeling something a little more modern. Leaning towards Raw '05 because I remember lots of good TV stuff with Edge, Jericho, Benoit, Benjamin, HBK in the first half of the year. But '04 is one of my favorite years ever too. And I'm really foggy on those two years of SD when it comes to storylines so I feel like I'd be surprised.

And I'd put the Punk/Cena series above Rock/Austin.

Rock/Austin
XV - ***1/2
XVII - ****1/4
XIX - *****

Punk/Cena
MITB '11 - *****
SS '11 - ****1/2
Raw '13 - ****1/4

Did top three vs top three there but I've got the NOC matchup at ****1/4 as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Iron Man is good. Breaking Point & No Way Out are great.

That's all that should be watched. Hell in a Cell if you want. It's pretty good in its own right, tbf.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> lol @ SummerSlam 2011 being better than WM17. I can't believe just how boring that match was when I rewatched it. Nothing more than a dull rehashed version of MITB.
> 
> On another note, I'm finally done with my Orton vs Cena series. Definitely not gonna bother with another one of these. Gets a bit stale watching the same two individuals go at it repeatedly.
> 
> ...


Great read and review. (Y) Never realized just how many TV matches they had. I agree with 90% of it other than lowering SS '07 by 1/2*, BR by 3/4* and HIAC by 1/4*. 

That Summerslam '09 match is so fucking bad. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It really is. Decent action fills the majority and then it's all the shenanigans. WHY DID TED'S BROTHER SHOW UP FOR NOTHING?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It really is. Decent action fills the majority and then it's all the shenanigans. WHY DID TED'S BROTHER SHOW UP FOR NOTHING?


I honestly think they just had no idea how to end the match and didn't want Orton to get a clean win...so let's get a dude's brother, have him run in and then let's just never hear from him sgain. Oh and lots of FAKE endings.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Good write up C2D (Y)
> 
> Let's see here
> 
> ...


You should give that 19/2/07 match a watch. It's an overlooked fun TV match. Really wish they had wrestled each other more before Orton became The Viper.



HayleySabin said:


> Iron Man is good. Breaking Point & No Way Out are great.
> 
> That's all that should be watched. Hell in a Cell if you want. It's pretty good in its own right, tbf.


SUMMERSLAM 2007, BROTHER!



Pierre McDunk said:


> Great read and review. (Y) Never realized just how many TV matches they had. I agree with 90% of it other than lowering SS '07 by 1/2*, BR by 3/4* and HIAC by 1/4*.
> 
> That Summerslam '09 match is so fucking bad. :lmao


SS 09 was awful. Completely agree.

Despite my Punk hate, I admit that he has a lot more natural chemistry with Cena than Orton does. Although I think the work of the latter two gets underrated.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fucking hell, I remember watching the Summerslam 2009 match live and it was sooo disappointing. It wasn't boring but the booking was just stupid. Why have Orton DQed 2 times and counted out once but only to have him retain the title cleanly. Whoever booked this match should have been fired immediately fpalm


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs Paul Burchill - ECW 19/05/2009

Ooooo, this looks rather interesting indeed. But I'm half expecting Swagger to interfere, though he did just shove Christian off the ramp on his way to the ring so maybe that was enough for tonight. Christian's knee is bothering him following the fall. BULLSEYE and all that shizzle.

Christian looks great in the beginning as he works around his injury, avoiding taking any further damage and trying to ground Burchill to prevent any major threat. 

Of course with a bad wheel he can only avoid a guy like Burchill for so long, and once Paul gets the chance, he's working over the champ's leg. Burchill does fine, but it's Christian's selling that is carrying the match no doubt. All the little things he does like pushing Paul off him during a cover rather than kicking out, only using one leg to jump off the ropes for a sunset flip etc. Things that a lot of people, good sellers too, probably wouldn't do. They'd do things as normal then sell the effects after, which is fine, but Christian turns "fine" selling into "best in the world" kind of selling.

In the end the ECW champ picks up the win. Good match for sure, and while Burchill carried his weight, Christian is the star no doubt, and when he gets the chance to shine he can shine brighter than almost anyone.

Rating: ***

Finlay Vs David Hart Smith - ECW 19/05/2009

Last week on ECW, Smith debuted on ECW and attacked Finlay. Now Finlay wants to kill him. Yey!

Finlay is awesome. Point of the elbow to the bridge of the nose of Smith, immediately followed it up by stomping on the hand. WOS match between Finlay and Bulldog brought up. I should watch that. Would be cool to see how different it is to this match with Bulldog's son.

Well... this is... something. I'm BORED during a Finlay match. And it's not entirely Smith's fault like you would assume. Finlay is working a keylock... and he's just... sitting there. Doing nothing. And neither is Smith. And it lasts what seeems like a stupidly long amount of time. Things actually pick up with Smith gains control. Bulldog style powerslam on the floor, then Smith becomes aggressive and beats the fuck out of Finlay for a little while.

And then it goes back to boring as this match seems to last WAY too long and Smith isn't that great at being in control for more than like 30 seconds :lmao.

Smith wins with a back suplex. What is this, early 90's HBK? There was a shot with a boot too. Doesn't make it that much better. This was booooring and not that good at all.

Rating: 1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I honestly think they just had no idea how to end the match and didn't want Orton to get a clean win...so let's get a dude's brother, have him run in and then let's just never hear from him sgain. Oh and lots of FAKE endings.


It was like 5 bookers/writers disagreed so Vince solved the problem by giving them all their finishes thrown in.



Choke2Death said:


> SUMMERSLAM 2007, BROTHER!


Eh. It's ok. Took most of the match to find their niche.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Summerslam 2007 to me is such a weird match, the crowd was going crazy even when nothing was happening :lmao I found the first 10 minutes boring, but then really picked up at the end. I may need to give this one another watch, because I thought it was good just not great. The crowd was the most memorable thing for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Finlay Vs David Hart Smith - ECW 19/05/2009
> 
> Last week on ECW, Smith debuted on ECW and attacked Finlay. Now Finlay wants to kill him. Yey!
> 
> ...


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Dammit. My review on this is lost in the last thread, iirc. Ahh, does the search on this place still suck? Screw it. I dig the match. Quite a bit. That's my rebuttal. :hayley2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well you told me :side:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those points I made will stand the test of time.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> You should give that 19/2/07 match a watch. It's an overlooked fun TV match. Really wish they had wrestled each other more before Orton became The Viper.


Just watched this match, i liked it actually.

Orton was fucking great as an angry cocky bastard, Cena was THE MAN back in 2007 so he's great as per usual. Liked it a lot, more than some of their 2009 stuff. Ending was expected when i saw the date, i knew Edge would attack Cena after because i think Rated RKO was still going at this time? Ending with the tease from Michaels was great.

Anyways, enjoyed it ***3/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Haven't seen any of their damn TV matches (besides the 05 Eddie G Tribute thank god... Well and their Superstar of the year match... and well... Okay I've seen alot of them but still ) , but here's the scope of things from where I'm concerned ;

Summerslam 2007 : **** 1/2*
Unforgiven 2007 : *DUD*
No Way Out 2008 : ******
Summerslam 2009 : *1/2 **
Breaking Point 2009 : **** 1/4*
Hell in a Cell 2009 : ** 3/4*
Bragging Rights 2009 : *****

The Awesome : No Way Out 2008

The Great : Summerslam 2007 & Breaking Point 2009

The Good : Bragging Rights 2009

The Bad : Hell in a Cell 2009

The UGLY : Unforgiven 2007 & Summerslam 2009

Cena-Orton is on par with the vastly overrated Cena-Edge as far as I'm concerned. Both combined wouldn't touch Cena-Punk though..... Really wanna re watch their 2009 series to gain a better perspective on things... In other news, I just picked up TLC 2012 on DVD and I'm going to watch it for the first time ever later.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KOK wanna see your thoughts on Ryback&Team Hell NO vs The Shield :mark:

Top 5 match of the year, I've watched it many times now and still holds up. 

***** 1/2* in my book, the match is just straight up awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was there even a standout Cena vs Edge match outside of Summerslam '06? I watched their Last Man Standing from Backlash '09 and honestly, it wasn't even THAT great like I remembered.

I'm gonna answer my question and say no. Summerslam '06 seems to be their only match worth watching.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Holy fuck, just watched Austin/Rock WM19 for the first time in awhile. I knew it was a great match, but don't remember it being that great. An hour ago I had this match at ****1/2, now I have it at *****. DAT CHEMISTRY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

As far as Cena vs Edge goes, I might as well post my ratings based on how far I've come in 2006. (watching ONS right now)

New Year's Revolution - 0
Royal Rumble - ★★½
Raw 31/1/06 - ★★★
Raw 14/2/06 - ★★★½

Already seen most of their other stuff including SummerSlam, Unforgiven and Backlash but I'll save my thoughts for when I'm done with them again.



Ever Wolf said:


> Just watched this match, i liked it actually.
> 
> Orton was fucking great as an angry cocky bastard, Cena was THE MAN back in 2007 so he's great as per usual. Liked it a lot, more than some of their 2009 stuff. Ending was expected when i saw the date, i knew Edge would attack Cena after because i think Rated RKO was still going at this time? Ending with the tease from Michaels was great.
> 
> Anyways, enjoyed it ***3/4*


Knew you would like it. Some of you others need to give this match a watch too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. Heard the RAW match with Foley as the ref was quite good between them. When it comes to Edge, I'll actually take his series vs Orton over most. I don't care how much I loathe the Over The Limit match. The rest of the pile is actually pretty awesome. Three, oh yeah THREE, matches in 2004 were GREAT for starters.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm a sucker for Cena/Edge TLC 8*D

That FU off the top of the ladder :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh yeah. Heard the RAW match with Foley as the ref was quite good between them. When it comes to Edge, I'll actually take his series vs Orton over most. I don't care how much I loathe the Over The Limit match. The rest of the pile is actually pretty awesome. Three, oh yeah THREE, matches in 2004 were GREAT for starters.


Yeah, Edge and Orton had GREAT chemistry in 2004. Specially Vengeance and that 13/12 match. They also have another match around April or May time, I think. Don't remember anything other than Flair distracting Edge in the end to give Orton a roll-up victory, though. And of course, there's their post-Backlash 07 match too. Also I've been meaning to ask you this, is the Jericho/Orton/Edge triple threat any good? That is, if you've seen it which I assume you have.

And Cena/Edge with Foley as guest ref is very good. (14/2 for the date)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

For those with WWE Classics on Demand, the 9/8/97 Raw is now on tap. Don't know if anyone remembers it, but the Bret/Vader NO DQ match takes place on that Raw. A definite GEM. ***1/2 

Watching that shit tonight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backwards ladder spot was one spot I liked. Match is a bit too contrived and dull for my tastes. Set up a ladder/table, spot, do it again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FIVE STARZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ?!?!?!?!?!

HEAD EXPLODES.

This is why I love the WWE Universe :cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, Edge and Orton had GREAT chemistry in 2004. Specially Vengeance and that 13/12 match. They also have another match around April or May time, I think. Don't remember anything other than Flair distracting Edge in the end to give Orton a roll-up victory, though. And of course, there's their post-Backlash 07 match too. Also I've been meaning to ask you this, is the Jericho/Orton/Edge triple threat any good? That is, if you've seen it which I assume you have.
> 
> And Cena/Edge with Foley as guest ref is very good. (14/2 for the date)


The pre-Vengeance match is the one I haven't watched recently.

I do remember enjoying the triple threat. As far as any details go past the outer surface response, I couldn't tell ya as I haven't gotten around to re-watching lately. But, it gets time and crowd was into it. Has potential to hold up. That much is certain.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena's just a really MESHABLE worker, works with a ton of styles unlike SOME particular big name workers (COUGH ORTON COUGH). 

Plus, he does it for the WWE Universe, what's not to love :cena3


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> FIVE STARZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> HEAD EXPLODES.
> 
> This is why I love the WWE Universe :cena3


Is this for me? Sorry. Epic storytelling at it's finest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Please, lets not go down the Orton sucks road. I have his 2004 work on the brain right now. Gets me thinking of the days when I :mark: at the sound of his music. I knew the upcoming match - or promo even! - would rule. GET A LOOK AT GREATNESS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton's fucking awesome.

He just doesn't go out and do it for the WWE Universe like Cena does, which puts him a notch below John Boy in my books.

:cena2

EDIT: Legit though, if somebody did an Orton career retrospective they would probably find him to be the GOD of the WWE at some points, both in ring and character wise. Those fucking tattoos.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Umaga vs Jeff Hardy - Great American Bash 2007 - ***3/4

Fun as hell. These two had great chemistry together and I'd say this was probably my favorite match between them.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Please, lets not go down the Orton sucks road. I have his 2004 work on the brain right now. Gets me thinking of the days when I :mark: at the sound of his music. I knew the upcoming match - or promo even! - would rule. GET A LOOK AT GREATNESS.


Especially agree about this theme music from then. It was so much better than the current one, IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished Angle vs Orton from ONS and I completely agree. Orton is AWESOME. Dammit, why did he have to become so dull with the times? Watching him in 2004-2006 and then 2009-present is like two different people. The arm sleeves and the bald head just doesn't suit him! He needs to remove those tattoos and keep the tribal ones then grow his hair back so we can get the cocky Orton back.

Who's stupid idea was it to turn him into a snake? But I give credit where it's due because Orton REALLY made it work as well as he possibly could. You wont get flashbacks of pretty boy Orton from 2003 when you see him in 2009 because it's almost like two different people.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished Angle vs Orton from ONS and I completely agree. Orton is AWESOME. Dammit, why did he have to become so dull with the times? Watching him in 2004-2006 and then 2009-present is like two different people. The arm sleeves and the bald head just doesn't suit him! He needs to remove those tattoos and keep the tribal ones then grow his hair back so we can get the cocky Orton back.


 To be fair, his heel stuff in 2009 were awesome. The promos were not anything like today. His face run has totally ruined his character IMO.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So, I watched a match I never have gotten around to watching today, Flair/HHH LMS, here is a little on the spot write up,

*Triple H vs Ric Flair, Last Man Standing, Survivor Series 11/27/05*

Oh my Jesus, let me start by saying, Flair was 57 fucking years old when this match happened, and holy shit the shit the man took. The match starts with HHH beating the hell out of him while Flair is still in the robe, BAH GAWD! In the first two minutes Coach is losing his shit because he hates Flair and wants HHH to deliver the fatal shot, ala Ole Yeller. Anyways, Flair eventually is out of the coat and chops and old men punches galore~. Jesus I love this man. What happens next literally made me cringe. Flair goes head first into the ringpost, then DA GAME takes a screwdriver to his head. Before you say, "but Flair always bleeds, he is DA GOAT" but Flair bleeds like a motherfucker. So in the first ten minutes of the match, Flair has taken a backdrop to the floor, a suplex to the floor, and is bleeding like fuck.

The middle portion of the match had me marking so hard, one spot in particular, in which Flair backdrops HHH through the announcer table :mark:. After that there really isn't a control segment, but it is pretty much even. Then Flair starts working over the leg like a god, with the idea of "oh shit he can't stand if he has another torn quad" so it is self explanatory mini story in the match, and I loved it. Flair then locks in the figure four for a solid minute with HHH tapping and Flair holding himself up with the ropes. Now the finishing stretch!

DA GAME is pissed when he is up and able again, and boom, steel steps to Flair's head. Flair comes up at 7. HHH goes for another, A MOTHERFUCKIMG DROP TOE HOLD! It looked like to me that HHH barely got his hands in front of his face in time, but now he is fuming. When he rises, PEDIGREE TO FLAIR! Flair hulks up and is up at 8! SECOND PEDIGREE TO FLAIR! Flair hulks up at 9! THIRD FUCKING PEDIGREE TO FLAIR! Flair begins to stir, and HHH delivers the final blow to the head with his signature sledgehammer to put down the Nature Boy.

*Rating: ****3/4 *

Holy fuck I adored this match, I probably overrated it but who gives a shit, this shit owned . Sorry if my review is meh, it was my first one so please don't judge too harshly


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH vs Flair LMS - ★★★★¼

Their cage match is the shit and even better, though.



Oliver-94 said:


> To be fair, his heel stuff in 2009 were awesome. The promos were not anything like today. His face run has totally ruined his character IMO.


That's not my problem. What I am bothered by is how much of a 180 his slow transition was. He used to cut promos with a load of energy and just had that awesome cocky grin with an awesome wrestling style before then suddenly he becomes a psychopath who speaks in the slowest most monotone way possible and walks around the ring at a snail's pace.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ the crowd in Angle vs Orton. Really like the Angle/Orton ONS match and subsequent Vengeance rematch. Then again, I pretty much marked the fuck out and still mark the fuck out for his 04-06 work.

DAT BAD BLOOD MATCH AGAINST SHELTON + PRE MATCH PROMO = LOVE.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Oh yea, I probably should of mentioned I loved the cage match even more,* ******


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> That's not my problem. What I am bothered by is how much of a 180 his slow transition was. He used to cut promos with a load of energy and just had that awesome cocky grin before then suddenly he becomes a psychopath who speaks in the slowest most monotone way possible.


 His character was always going to change though. He was a young arrogant heel for 5 years, he was never going to be the same character. Almost every wrestler has changed their gimmick/characters. ROCK in 2001/2002 was different from the ROCK in 1999, Cena's rapping gimmick slowly died in 2007 and etc.

The main problems with Orton are his stale face run and his booking. The dude hasn't had a real storyline since summer of 2011.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

One thing I just noticed during Orton/Angle from ONS... THERE'S ACTUALLY A SIGN THAT READS "JOHN CENA RULES"! Can you believe that? :shock



Oliver-94 said:


> His character was always going to change though. He was a young arrogant heel for 5 years, he was never going to be the same character. Almost every wrestler has changed their gimmick/characters. ROCK in 2001/2002 was different from the ROCK in 1999, Cena's rapping gimmick slowly died in 2007 and etc.
> 
> The main problems with Orton are his stale face run and his booking. The dude hasn't had a real storyline since summer of 2011.


But Orton changed way too much. Going from arrogant, cocky heel to psychopath? Just sounds like too much of a change. When Cena or ROCK changed their characters, it was minor changes and not complete overhaul of their looks and how they carry themselves. Cena's rapping gimmick died in 2004 btw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Umaga vs Jeff Hardy - Great American Bash 2007 - ***3/4
> 
> Fun as hell. These two had great chemistry together and I'd say this was probably my favorite match between them.


****

LOVE IT. 

Plus a humorous JR line: "do they have sidewalks in Samoa? Either way it was a hell of a Sidewalk Slam."



ShowStopper '97 said:


> Especially agree about this theme music from then. It was so much better than the current one, IMO.


I like the Voices theme. Burn in my Light was my song though. Fit his character so well at the time.

I'm with C2D here on Orton. His character change has been drastic. How could someone go from cutting promos with charisma, to being devoid of it nowadays? It's...unusual.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Agree with Cody loved the GAB match between Umaga and Jeff, outside of maybe Hunter I can't think of anyone else who had better chemistry with Jeff, then dat Samoan Bulldozer(Y)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just wanted to suggest this site, It gives you all the matches a certain opponent has had with another. It finds all TV and PPV matches, don't know about house matches though.

http://www.profightdb.com/

Use the white box at the top to type in your wrestler's name, when it's done searching it would give you all the gimmicks they had. For example, When i put in Undertaker. It gave me 3 gimmicks - Cain The Undertaker, The Fake Undertaker and *The Undertaker*

The bold is obviously the right one, Once you choose that gimmick. They will give his last set of matches wrestled and the results, Click on where it says Opponents & Partners and follow thru from there.

It's a real simple site, i feel i have complicated it with this Guide. LOL, Just thought i'd share considering it helped me find all the Angle/Taker matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Agree with Cody loved the GAB match between Umaga and Jeff, outside of maybe Hunter I can't think of anyone else who had better chemistry with Jeff, then dat Samoan Bulldozer(Y)


(Y)

Trips vs Umaga Street Fight IMO too.

Profight is a beacon of light for the majority. Wished it updated AJPW matches. Would make finding results much simpler.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Agree with Cody loved the GAB match between Umaga and Jeff, outside of maybe Hunter I can't think of anyone else who had better chemistry with Jeff, then dat Samoan Bulldozer(Y)


CM Punk had an array of 4 star-plus matches with Jeff leading up to Summerslam, Right before Jeff left for TNA.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> One thing I just noticed during Orton/Angle from ONS... THERE'S ACTUALLY A SIGN THAT READS "JOHN CENA RULES"! Can you believe that? :shock
> 
> 
> 
> But Orton changed way too much. Going from arrogant, cocky heel to psychopath? Just sounds like too much of a change. When Cena or ROCK changed their characters, it was minor changes and not complete overhaul of their looks and how they carry themselves. Cena's rapping gimmick died in 2004 btw.


 I think 2006/07 was the official end for Cena's gimmick. He was still insulting his opponents by rhyming words when he moved to RAW. Sure he wasn't rapping in every segment/promo like he was in 2003 but he did rap a few times. After 2007, he stopped completely. 

I agree that he changed too much but my point is that Orton's viper gimmick only sucked after he turned face in 2010. He was cutting one of the best promos of 2009 when he was feuding with HHH. Compare the promo below to the any of his promos now. I don't think it really matters how different your gimmick is compared to previous gimmicks. Look at Taker's gimmicks. American badass is very different to his lord of ministry or Phenom gimmicks. It's how you play them and Orton has shown that he can be entertaining being the Viper. It's just that the guy is a natural heel, in the same way Punk and Edge are.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> CM Punk had an array of 4 star-plus matches with Jeff leading up to Summerslam, Right before Jeff left for TNA.


My mistake Punk would be right up there as well, granted I'm not as high as everyone else on the TLC, it's still a great match. I loved though the Cage match on smackdown and there NOC match is great too (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NOC is good. Won't go past that. The TLC & Cage matches were wonderful. Especially the Cage. Such a drama filled encounter. Ah, its something special.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Holy shit, I'm watching Benoit and Angle from W17 to see how it holds up against their Rumble match and i was looking at the crowd to see how they were reacting to their match and I think i'm actually seeing Batista in the front row, He is wearing sun glasses and a yellow shirt. You need to check this out guys.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was Batista in 2001. He was in OVW. Champion for a good while too.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk/Cena > Rock/Austin for me as well.

Austin vs. Rock

WMXV - ***1/2
WMXVII - ****3/4
WMXIX - ****1/4

Cena vs. Punk

MITB '11 - *****
Summerslam '11 - ****1/2
NOC '12 - ****1/4

RAW August 2011 and February 2013 - ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ignore the WM 15 match for Austin/Rock. Backlash '99 people. It makes their series look much stronger.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Still need to complete the Austin/Rock series. I've only watched Wrestlemania 17 and 19 matches. I need to rewatch the Cena/Punk matches again though.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I don't remember that match at all. To search I go!

On the topic of early Orton greatness, I was definitely a mark for his 2003-06 run. Especially his IC run. :mark: Loved his character back then.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Ignore the WM 15 match for Austin/Rock. Backlash '99 people. It makes their series look much stronger.


Ding, ding, ding.

Rock/Austin

WM 15 ***3/4
Backlash '99 ****1/2 
WM 17 ****3/4
WM 19 ****3/4 (change of mind from before)

Punk/Cena

MITB '11 ****1/2
SS'11 ***1/4
NOC ****
RAW ’13 ***3/4


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Any review on Rock/Austin in a cage match or at Rebellion?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WM15 - ★★★½
Backlash 99 - ★★★¾
WM17 - ★★★★★
WM19 - ★★★★½

Need to watch cage match and Rebellion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Rebellion match isn't good at all.

On the topic of Randy Orton, is it just me, or does he have some extremely bipolar chemistry with alot of guys ? I was just thinking about a few 04-05 Batista vs Randy Orton matches thatw ere actually pretty good, and then I remembered his horrendous matches with Batista in 2008 and 2009, and he's like this with a TON of guys. Sheamus, Cena, GAME, etc.

Who the fuck is Orton's absolute BEST opponent anyways in terms of consistently great matches BESIDES The Undertaker and Chris Benoit of course..... Edge ?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> That Rebellion match isn't good at all.
> 
> On the topic of Randy Orton, is it just me, or does he have some extremely bipolar chemistry with alot of guys ? I was just thinking about a few 04-05 Batista vs Randy Orton matches thatw ere actually pretty good, and then I remembered his horrendous matches with Batista in 2008 and 2009, and he's like this with a TON of guys. Sheamus, Cena, GAME, etc.
> 
> Who the fuck is Orton's absolute BEST opponent anyways in terms of consistently great matches BESIDES The Undertaker and Chris Benoit of course..... Edge ?


That would be Christian  I don't care what anyone's says Christian from match quality wise is his greatest opponent ever.

Agree with Cody the Backlash 99 match makes ths series much stronger, it's far superior to their lackluster Wrestlemania XV match. Even Austin himself quoted It. Still Cena Punk>>>>> Austin/Rock unk2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Insert "it's christian" joke.



KingOfKings said:


> That Rebellion match isn't good at all.
> 
> On the topic of Randy Orton, is it just me, or does he have some extremely bipolar chemistry with alot of guys ? I was just thinking about a few 04-05 Batista vs Randy Orton matches thatw ere actually pretty good, and then I remembered his horrendous matches with Batista in 2008 and 2009, and he's like this with a TON of guys. Sheamus, Cena, GAME, etc.
> 
> Who the fuck is Orton's absolute BEST opponent anyways in terms of consistently great matches BESIDES The Undertaker and Chris Benoit of course..... Edge ?


Batista vs Orton could have been a classic had it happened at Mania 22. Batista got better as a performer in 2007 but for some reason, his feud with Orton was a disappointment.

For consistent opponents: Edge, Christian, Rey Mysterio are ones that come to mind for me. HBK too. Whenever he's worked with Jericho, the result has usually been decent to good as well. But Undertaker and Benoit are definitely his best opponents. And Foley if we'd count him but that's only one (two if you count WM20) match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Maybe Edge. Only really awful match they had that I recall was at OTL 2010. Christian also had some pretty awesome chemistry with Orton, even going back to 05. I think I'd go:

1) Taker
2) Benoit
3) Christian
4) Edge

And fuck everyone else.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Just subscribing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah. I'm officially back on the "Let's push Randy Orton now" bandwagon.

FUCK.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

A long feud between Orton and Bryan with a series of long matches would instantly make me interested in Randy again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah. I'm officially back on the "Let's push Randy Orton now" bandwagon.
> 
> FUCK.


Where'd that come from? rton



Hohenheim of Light said:


> A long feud between Orton and Bryan with a series of long matches would instantly make me interested in Randy again.


:mark: at the thought of it. FUCK, why do these morons have to stick Bryan in this stupid comedy tag team bullshit? WHY?

Bryan needs to work a nice couple of feuds with Orton and Cena fast. With one or two lengthy PPV matches preferably.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Was thinking the same thing today TBH. I'm hoping that's the route they go post Hell No Breakup. They've only had 3 singles matches on TV, and by today's standards that's a fucking LOW number.......

Just checked out how many singles matches Orton and Barrett have had together.... NINETEEN! WHAT THE FUCK !


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

After some deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that Brock/Cena from Extreme Rules is five stars and both man's best match.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Always been an Orton fan since day 1, the guy is so talented in that ring and everything looks so smooth. 

I hate that he hasn't had anything to do for a while now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock-Cena is one of the best matches in company history ; I currently have it as the number five match in WWF/WWE history. The GOAT heel control segment by BROCK, you just can't go wrong there. Fuck the people who don't like the match because they didn't look the booking.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Agree with the atrocity that is Orton's booking. He's better than that. Would have liked to have seen him get the recent title run that Punk got. 430-something days? fpalm


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk deserved that reign more .

Although I wouldn't mind seeing a big time Orton-Punk WWE Championship feud where they trade the belt back and forth a few times.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

this thread moves fast


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

He deserved a reign, for sure, and I like Punk. But that long of a reign? 

:lol

This company.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah he did.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Kinda cool in a new thread it doesn't create a blank page after 5 posts on the current one. Hard to describe, but I'm not the only one that noticed that right?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I think I noticed that.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

It also didn't help that Orton was too busy taking drugs at that time, :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Always been an Orton fan since day 1, the guy is so talented in that ring and everything looks so smooth.
> 
> I hate that he hasn't had anything to do for a while now.


It's always great when people recognize his talent. I've read message boards from way back and the hate he's gotten is unbelievable. Idiots calling him a mediocre wrestler and that his promos are bad just because he made a botch a few months after he was getting going.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I loved the initial face run. They could have easily built it up and had HHH-Orton at Wrestlemania XXI but NOPE, they needed a big man to replace Lesnar so ENTER BIG DAVE BATISTA.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> It's always great when people recognize his talent. I've read message boards from way back and the hate he's gotten is unbelievable. Idiots calling him a mediocre wrestler and that his promos are bad just because he made a botch a few months after he was getting going.


It would be absolutely moronic, not to recognise him as one of the most natural talents ever seen in WWE, not a fan of his promos of the last few years, but that's his character really he doesn't talk, his actions speak louder. We all know he has charisma and can cut a promo from his early legend killer run. 

I just really wanna see him in a program, I think after the inevitable heel turn we will be seeing more from Mr Orton


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk didn't deserve that reign. He deserved an even longer one. unk

500 days+, at least, tbh.

And as far as Orton, big fan of his early character, but fuck another push for the guy. Unless there's a drastic character change, which I doubt, no thanks. One of the most boring guys on the roster.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*insert cliche 'Leave the Memories Alone' line*

Been a really long time since I've posted here. I have matches bookmarked and one I need to finish (HBK/Razor 94), so I'll leave everyone to what was talked about.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I would've been fine with it. Obviously, more important people than me wouldn't have, though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> It would be absolutely moronic, not to recognise him as one of the most natural talents ever seen in WWE, not a fan of his promos of the last few years, but that's his character really he doesn't talk, his actions speak louder. We all know he has charisma and can cut a promo from his early legend killer run.
> 
> I just really wanna see him in a program, I think after the inevitable heel turn we will be seeing more from Mr Orton


My biggest hope is that he turns heel for Mania and wrestles Sheamus. They've kind of teased something along the lines of that this week on SD with their backstage segment. Best thing possible would be having him and Sheamus against Shield in a 2-on-3 tag match. The faces look like they are about to win then Orton RKOs Sheamus and walks out on him. Heel turn complete and Mania match set up! Can't get any easier than that.



KingOfKings said:


> I loved the initial face run. They could have easily built it up and had HHH-Orton at Wrestlemania XXI but NOPE, they needed a big man to replace Lesnar so ENTER BIG DAVE BATISTA.


That was not even the plan. They fucked up by rushing Orton's face turn WAY too soon and then because he was still young and learning, felt it was better to take the title off him so they had HHH bury him and kill his face run completely.

At least they got it right with BATISTA, though.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> My biggest hope is that he turns heel for Mania and wrestles Sheamus. They've kind of teased something along the lines of that this week on SD with their backstage segment. Best thing possible would be having him and Sheamus against Shield in a 2-on-3 tag match. The faces look like they are about to win then Orton RKOs Sheamus and walks out on him. Heel turn complete and Mania match set up! Can't get any easier than that.


^ I would love this, because I feel especially on this lackluster Wrestlemania card Orton/Sheamus could steal the show. I feel though Orton will turn at heel at Wrestlemania, with the same basic scenario as above.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Orton/Sheamus could seriously own, heel Orton acting like a prick and workhorse Sheamus being Sheamus :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> I loved the initial face run. They could have easily built it up and had HHH-Orton at Wrestlemania XXI but NOPE, they needed a big man to replace Lesnar so ENTER BIG DAVE BATISTA.


Batista >>>>>>> Orton


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm a little behind, but I took a nap and missed the Orton/Cena discussion. 

Just watched Cena/Orton from 2007. The main thing that jumped out at me was the crowd. If that East Rutherford crowd shit on Cena (which they did from the start and kept going), imagine what it'll be like at Mania this year. Yes, it'll be an international crowd, but holy cow. 

To the match, like I said, the crowd was hot for Orton from the start and early on, cheered him every time he even landed a punch. This match is basically Orton kicking ass for 20 minutes. Cena got a few moves in here and there, but completely no sold everything when he locked in the STF. Then Orton landed the RKO, and sold the knee to give Cena time to kick out, then went down to one FU. 

I rewatched the Iron Man match the other day, and liked it a little bit. I'm just not a fan of so many falls, but I guess in this day, a one hour stalemate might not go over with a live crowd. Maybe I'm wrong to say that. 

The thing I hated most was Cena's hideous stepover-crossface at the end. It wasn't even that, but a chinlock instead of a crossface.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

no legend killer reboot
no age of orton
and no whatever the hell he was doing after april 2009.

hell i don't think he can top early 2009 if he does turn heel.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time*​
*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)*



*21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)*​
*“Truth be told you are one of the best of all time, but to even suggest you’re the greatest wrestler of this generation is an insult to me and everything I stand for” Kurt Angle​*










For the record this was my dream match, I remember a young 12 year old me not being able to sleep for days before this. Let’s get right into things I don’t believe this is a 5 star affair like I once did, I was young and naïve leave me alone. I still love this match though, the early going had HBK outwrestle Angle which put him off his game as no one believed HBK would come out and try and outwrestle an Olympic Champion. I dug the story of this part of the match, but it went for too long, and felt as if most of it was a long rest hold. This match could be summed up in 3 parts, the slow build into the high spots, into the frantic finish. When things hit the outside it picked up, and the Angle Slam too the back looked awesome. I kinda dug then Angle hitting suplexes and targeting the back with every move. Then we got into the frantic finish, which still had me marking out like a 12 year old again, the SCM attempt into the Ankle lock was awesome, as was the Angle Slam from the top rope. Now we have the biggest talk point of the match, how long HBK was in the Ankle lock for. Honestly I didn’t mind, this isn’t MMA remember its sports entertainment and to me it only added to the drama of the match. The commentary especially played up that the last thing HBK wanted to do was submit at Wrestlemania. It seems as if most people have so many differing opinions of Shawn Michaels matches at Wrestlemania and this is certainly one of them, I loved it and I definitely couldn’t leave it off the list.​
***** 1/4​*


*20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)​*
*“When it comes to facing the Undertaker, im the true Phenom” Edge*












The 2nd match in the classic Wrestlemania match streak of the Undertaker. I don’t care what anyone says this shouldn’t have been the main event, I know Flair felt otherwise but that was the match that everyone came to see and the site of Flair walking out should have been the last thing we saw at Wrestlemania 24. Rant aside, this was a damn fine match. It took me about 5 minutes to get into it but once I did, it had me guessing what would happen next. I dug the story of Edge having a counter for everyone of Takers move, it was so effective as they knew each other quite well. I loved how when Edge speared Taker from the outside into the barricade he focused on the back and kidney area of Taker, little things like this make the match so good. The selling of the back was absolutely awesome by Taker, who as always timed his comebacks magnificently. After the ref bump, Edge low blows Taker and I love how he brings in the Camera, which he used to cost Taker the title against Batista inside Hiac, little things like this make the story so much better than just grabbing a chair from under the ring. Completely off topic but Charles Robinson run down the ramp :mark: Edge hits a spear and gets only a 2 count, then hits another on Taker but he turns it into hell’s gate and Edge taps out. Quite a memorable match, the early going was slow but things really picked up and they put over a great story. With all things considered this makes the top 20 on my Wrestlemania match countdown.​
***** 1/4​*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Can anyone suggest some great matches from the years of 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Can anyone suggest some great matches from the years of 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012?


2012

Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk (Champion vs. Champion, RAW 2/27/12)
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (WM 28)
Undertaker vs. HHH (HIAC, WM 28)
Rock vs. John Cena (WM 28)
CM Punk vs. Mark Henry (RAW 4/3/12)
CM Punk vs. Mark Henry (No DQ, RAW 4/16/12)
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus (2 out of 3 falls, Extreme Rules)
CM Punk vs. Jericho (Chicago Street Fight, Extreme Rules)
Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena (Extreme Rules match, Extreme Rules)
Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk (Over the Limit)
Kane vs. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (No Way Out)
Kane vs. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (Elimation match, RAW 6/25/12)
Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk (No DQ, MITB)
CM Punk vs. John Cena (Night of Champions 9/16/12)
Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC match, TLC)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How is Sheamus vs Orton even on the mind of folks? It never was assured to even go down and it still isn't. They showed alignment on Smackdown. Match vs The Shield is more than shaping up at this rate.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Can anyone suggest some great matches from the years of 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012?


Some much good stuff from majority of these years so ill narrow it down to a 5-10 matches.

1997 :

Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels HIAC BB
Steve Austin vs Bret Hart Submission WM13
Canadian Stampede basically the entire PPV :mark:
Owen vs Bulldog Raw i think its 3/3/1997
Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin KOTR
Steve Austin vs Vader vs Bret Hart vs Undertaker Final Four
Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin vs Owen Hart & British Bulldog Raw
HHH vs Mankind series.
Undertaker vs Bret SS and ONO

SO much quality this year, alot more great matches then ive suggested.

1998.

Austin vs Dude Love OTE
HBK vs Austin WM14
Taker vs Kane WM 14
Taker vs Mankind KOTR
HHH vs Rock ladder match Summerslam
HBK vs Taker RR

2000:

HHH vs Cactus RR and NWO
HHH vs Rock BL and JD
HHH vs Benoit NM
Rock vs Benoit FL
HHH vs Jericho FL
Jericho vs Benoit series
TLC I SS

Dat game :HHH

2001:

Austin vs HHH NWO
Austin vs Benoit Smackdown
Rock vs Austin WM17
TLC 2 WM17
Angle vs Rock NWO
Benoit Jericho vs Austin HHH Raw
Austin vs Angle SS
Jericho vs Rock NM
Benoit vs Jericho ladder RR

2005:
Angle vs HBK WM21 and Vengeance
Batista vs HHH HIAC Vengeance
MITB 1 WM21
Undertaker vs Orton series
New years revolution Elimination Chamber
Hardy vs Edge Cage Unforgiven
HHH vs Flair Cage and Last man standing
Cena vs JBL I quit

2007:

Cena vs HBK WM23 and Raw
Cena vs Umaga last man standing RR
Cena vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs HBK Backlash
Orton vs HHH Last man standing
HBK vs Orton Survivor Series
Batista vs Undertaker series
HHH vs Jeff Armageddon 

2008:
HBK vs Flair WM24
Undertaker vs Edge WM24, BL, JD and Summerslam
HBK Jericho JD, UNF, GAB and ladder match at NM
HHH vs Jeff NM
Cena vs Batista SS 
Raw elimination chamber

2010: 

HBK vs Taker WM26
Bryan vs Ziggler Bragging righs and Raw
Morrison vs Sheamus ladder at TLC
Bryan vs Miz vs Morrison at Hiac
Team WWE vs Team Nexus SS
Punk Rey series
SD mitb

cant remember much else

2012:

HHH vs Taker HIAC at WM28
Punk vs Jericho WM28 and ER
Sheamus vs Bryan ER
Cena vs Brock ER
Punk vs Henry night after WM
Punk vs Bryan OTL and MITB
Team hell no & Ryback vs the shield TLC 
Punk vs Cena NOC

That should get u started for awhile (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Surely we have to be getting a better blow off for the SHIELD than Sheamus/Orton/??? , right ?

That would be fucking terrible :lol.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

2010 TV I have see lately with STARZ

Rey Mysterio vs Chris Jericho 1/1 Smackdown ***1/2
Christian vs William Regal 1/14 Superstars ***1/2
Christian/Kane vs Regal/Jackson 1/26 ECW **** (I believe Cal can also vouch for this one)
Christian vs Drew McIntrye 7/16, 7/30 and 8/20 ***, ***1/4, and ***1/2
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler 10/24, 10/25 and 10/29 **** and the other two at ***1/2 (10/24 is Bragging Rights but whatever)
DH Smith vs William Regal 12/30 Superstars ***1/4

I have seen all of those within the past week so they are fresh on my mind, but it looks like I need some more 2010 as well, as I can hardly remember TV that year, a decent year for PPVs if I can remember correctly, hope this helps a little bit!


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Read an idea with Shield vs. Sheamus/Orton/Show where Show's allegiance is in question. The match ends with Orton turning heel on Sheamus and Shield reaping the benefits. It'd prolong the Shield storyline past Mania and also allow for Sheamus/heel Orton following Mania.

I'd be down for that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That sounds pretty realistic, legit. I'd buy into that shit for real. 

The question I'm posing is, if Cena's done with Punk for a while, and there's rumors running rampant of a Ryback/Orton heel turn.... Who the fuck is going to feud with Punk post Mania ? We all know that his feud will be the second biggest in the company, so who the fuck are they going to match him with ? You don't exactly go from The Rock to The Undertaker to Kofi Kingston overnight, they have to have SOME top face ready for a feud with him.

Outside of Sheamus/Orton, there's nobody there that's even close to being close to Punk's level. He'll be one of the like five people in the company who always has a relevant storyline no matter what, while everybody else floats around in midcard hell .


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)*



*19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)*


*“The two greatest athletes to grace a WWE ring will face each other for the ultimate prize” Tazz*












This match was so different from your typical Wrestlemania main event, it featured 2 legitimate amateur wrestlers which had never been seen before, on one of the most stacked cards in wrestling history. You have to give Kurt props, his neck was in such a rough shape. So different seeing mat wrestling at the start of a Wrestlemania main event, but I loved it. The majority of Angles offense was to the injured ribs of Lesnar which fit the story and I loved the german suplex into the turnbuckle, it looked brutal. Brock sold well and timed his comebacks nicely, using his strength and power to get back on top. Knowing Kurt’s condition at the time it makes me cringe every time he hits the mat, much like when I watch HBK/Austin at Wrestlemania 14. Nice finisher teases and reversals at the end as Angle reverses then F5 into the ankle lock, I especially love when Brock fights out so Angle turn it into a half boston crab with his other knee pushing into Brocks ribs. The crowd had seemingly been quite for the majority of the match, basically I believe because they just went through such an adrenaline rush from Austin/Rock not to mention how good the rest of the card was. But they really livened up in the finisher stretch, with counter after counter and kick out after kick out of the other man’s finisher. The Shooting Star Press botch had me legimately worried for Brock, what a Wrestlemania Moment it would have been if he would of hit it. Brock being groggy I was amazed they finished the match on the fly so well. Props to both men for going out there an tearing it up, what a fantastic 
Wrestlemania main event the botch at the end drops this about a quarter of a star but I still loved this.​
***** 1/4​*


*18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)​*
*“Let me be completely honest with you, I came back to the WWE for one reason only. To beat you for that title at Wrestlemania and shove down your throat that I am the Best in the World at what I do” Chris Jericho​*









I feel so blessed that I got to see this match live, as Im such a fan of both guys, and truth be told this was the match I came to see at Wrestlemania 28. I had been clamouring for it as soon as Punk stated he was the best in the world. First off Chris Jericho is the man, the guy is such an amazing heel. I firstly hated that this match was turned into if Punk gets DQ’ed he would lose the title. But it set the tone for the start of the match, with all Jericho was trying to do was get Punk DQ’ed with verbal insults. Calling his sister a drug addict, his father an alcoholic damn I love you Jericho. But after Jericho finally realises Punk won’t be offended any more he stops and we get down to wrestling :mark: My sister originally thought this was good not great this match, but I turned here opinion around with the great psychology by Jericho. Every move he did focused on the back of Punk, so he could put the Walls on Punk and make him submit thus humiliate him of the biggest stage of all like he stated he would do. Punks selling was amazing, but without a doubt in my mind this was Jericho’s match he was phenomenal. The crowd like in Angle/Lesnar was quiet for the most part, but it picked up drastically during the finishing stretch. The finishing stretch was a thing of beauty and I :mark: for the walls counter off the rop rope, the counter after counter of the submission holds had you in suspense. The finish was great, Jericho was in the anaconda vise before and kneed Punk in the head to get out, but this time Punk moved his body in a way so he couldn’t and had to tap out. I love this match, and it will always be something I’ll remember forever being there live, there were a few off moments I feel and the crowd wasn’t as into it as I liked. Screw it though I loved it and it is 18th best match in Wrestlemania history In my view.​
***** 1/4 *​

I got bored so I figured I'd put my next 2 up (Y)​


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Read an idea with Shield vs. Sheamus/Orton/Show where Show's allegiance is in question. The match ends with Orton turning heel on Sheamus and Shield reaping the benefits. It'd prolong the Shield storyline past Mania and also allow for Sheamus/heel Orton following Mania.
> 
> I'd be down for that.


That sounds great,.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I still think that after WM, we're going to see a Punk/Ryback or Punk/Cena feud.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone else thought Eddie/Angle at WM20 was lackluster, I think i had it at ***3/4* last watch. Their summerslam encounter was solid at ***** but still didn't meet expectations, but i absolutely loved their SD match in 2005. I think i rated it at the least a ******. Such a great match, much better than their PPV encounters.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Angle from WM 20 earns a nice **** from myself. It wasn't a fast paced contest the entire time; everything came together well in my eyes. Finish was the topper.

@SMIG - Michaels vs Angle at only #21? Well this is a welcomed surprise. Punk vs Jericho over it is (Y)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Eddie vs Angle from WM 20 earns a nice **** from myself. It wasn't a fast paced contest the entire time; everything came together well in my eyes. Finish was the topper.
> 
> @SMIG - Michaels vs Angle at only #21? Well this is a welcomed surprise. Punk vs Jericho over it is (Y)


What do you rate the Summerslam and SD 2005 matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown match I don't have any rating on atm. Summerslam is...***1/2. I don't hate it like some seem to do. I got into this one being the uber fast paced bout in comparison to their slower battle from WM.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Eddie vs Angle from WM 20 earns a nice **** from myself. It wasn't a fast paced contest the entire time; everything came together well in my eyes. Finish was the topper.
> 
> @SMIG - Michaels vs Angle at only #21? Well this is a welcomed surprise. Punk vs Jericho over it is (Y)


Eddie vs Angle at Wm20 was an honourable mention on my Wrestlemania countdown, I still think Swagger and Mysterio pulled off that finish better in 2010.

Yer only 21 for me, I thought you would of been happy about that :lmao and no Bret/Shawn ironman on my list either (Y) 

I found a lot more things in Punk/Jericho I liked then Angle/HBK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Eddie vs Angle at Wm20 was an honourable mention on my Wrestlemania countdown, I still think Swagger and Mysterio pulled off that finish better in 2010.
> 
> Yer only 21 for me, I thought you would of been happy about that :lmao and no Bret/Shawn ironman on my list either (Y)
> 
> I found a lot more things in Punk/Jericho I liked then Angle/HBK.


If I had to pick one I liked more as an overall match - not just finish, Mysterio vs Swagger would take the cake. Eddie's moment meant a bit more to me b/c it laid the foundation in making Mysterio's mean something.

I didn't expect it. Think KOK put it over more...maybe. No Iron Man? ~! 

You and I are in the same boat there. SHOCKER, huh? :hayley3


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> If I had to pick one I liked more as an overall match - not just finish, Mysterio vs Swagger would take the cake. Eddie's moment meant a bit more to me b/c it laid the foundation in making Mysterio's mean something.
> 
> I didn't expect it. Think KOK put it over more...maybe. No Iron Man? ~!
> 
> You and I are in the same boat there. SHOCKER, huh? :hayley3


Yer same I felt Swagger/Mysterio at MITB 2010 is a forgotten little gem

Just went back and saw KOK had it at #24 and at ****** 

Yer no ironman match, it could have been booked so much better and the arm work went nowhere. The story could of been so much better with Bret being up and HBK having to come back to achieve his boyhood dream :hbk2

Huge shocker, nah I feel we are on nearly the same page on a lot of stuff. Apart of me wanted to put Punk/Jericho higher on my list.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Yer same I felt Swagger/Mysterio at MITB 2010 is a forgotten little gem
> 
> Just went back and saw KOK had it at #24 and at ******
> 
> ...


Such a wonderful match. One of my favorites in 2010. No doubt.

Near the same level. I guess it felt more significant since his list was longer than your's

It really, really could have. With the Bret vs Owen Iron Man out there, it proved the match didn't have to only be rest holds and plodding, nonsensical action for 58 minutes. They decided to save the majority of the offense and near falls condensed into the final 2 minutes. What is that? I really do hate the match, tbhayley. It's just not my cup of tea.

It seems that way. Which is always cool. LOVE Punk vs Jericho so much. Great wrestling with a great story mixed in the match. Building up the family jabs were decent, but with the DQ rule added prior to the match, it helped the anger from Punker really take shape. Jericho played his cards in near genius like fashion.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Such a wonderful match. One of my favorites in 2010. No doubt.
> 
> Near the same level. I guess it felt more significant since his list was longer than your's
> 
> ...


Definitely a match that should be talked about more, when we speak of 2010 (Y)

Yer I was gonna do a top 50 but the fear of leaving something off a list that big scared me :lmao I could probably do it anyway because I got like 20 matches I left off my list that I like. 

I really wish it was just a straight up singles match between Bret and Shawn, I'm sure that would of definitely made my list. Haven't seen that Bret/Owen ironman might have to give it a view especially for my love of Bret/Owen matches. 

I don't wanna brag but I saw it live  and loved every bit too bad most of the people around me didn't get into it till the end, I felt weird being the only one :mark: out for the whole match. Punk was great, but Jericho was GOD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Definitely a match that should be talked about more, when we speak of 2010 (Y)
> 
> Yer I was gonna do a top 50 but the fear of leaving something off a list that big scared me :lmao I could probably do it anyway because I got like 20 matches I left off my list that I like.
> 
> ...


I'll plug it whenever I get to that point of doing a year wide write up on it. Someday. 

It happens. Top 29 is logical and fitting since it leads into 29 years. Your thought process was spot on for list.

Imo, I've never been one who's cared for Bret vs Shawn working vs each other as it is. This was a topic...somewhere. Maybe in the original thread, but their work as never really impressed me together. Both worked 100x better vs Owen. Bret had Austin & Michaels had Undertaker to boot. Tags were pretty good though. Certainly a better chemistry in that environment, if you ask me.

You were at 28? Radical. I'd brag. You spent all that money to attend. You gots to brag. It doesn't surprise me fans were a bit out of it in the first part. Such a long and draining show without a break. Fans can only have so much energy. Every single person had to need a break when Undertaker vs HHH finished.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm doing a project of mine for the top 30 greatest matches in Smackdown history. Already got the big ones (i.e. Benoit/Orton, Angle/Taker, Austin/Benoit, TLC III, etc.) so I kinda need some help in looking for GEMZ~


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I'll plug it whenever I get to that point of doing a year wide write up on it. Someday.
> 
> It happens. Top 29 is logical and fitting since it leads into 29 years. Your thought process was spot on for list.
> 
> ...


Yer after I finish this Wrestlemania countdown, I might do a yearly review  or review all the extreme rules PPV's and drop a top 10 for the event.

Yer i did 29 precisely for that and it felt like a nice number so its not to long like 50 were and not too short like 10, so we miss out on some classics. 

I alwayts felt they could have a classic, maybe just on one night everything would of clicked and we could of had a 5 star affair. HBK/Owen :mark: 

Yer i was at 28 :mark: and the night after to see Brock return :mark: :mark: :mark: plan on hitting up 30 as well, so I better not see Rock/Cena 3 scheduled for 30  Yer my sister a big fan as well was with me and she said just before Punk/Jericho started, I know now what you mean when fans get drained after big matches. Every single person was on there feet for Taker/HHH it was the greatest experience ever. Taker's entrance just gives you chills.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

ATF said:


> I'm doing a project of mine for the top 30 greatest matches in Smackdown history. Already got the big ones (i.e. Benoit/Orton, Angle/Taker, Austin/Benoit, TLC III, etc.) so I kinda need some help in looking for GEMZ~


Name all the matches you got so far, and then i might be able to throw some other gems out there for ya


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Okay so i rewatched the most polarising match of 2013 so far.
> 
> *Rock vs. Punk*
> *Royal Rumble*
> ...


Very true IMO, hate the EC one too if im honest, never going to watch either again, i was really looking forward to the RR match too, fuck knows why lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ATF said:


> I'm doing a project of mine for the top 30 greatest matches in Smackdown history. Already got the big ones (i.e. Benoit/Orton, Angle/Taker, Austin/Benoit, TLC III, etc.) so I kinda need some help in looking for GEMZ~


Edge/Eddie - No DQ - SD 2002
Cena/Taker - SD 2004
Angle/Booker T - SD 7/26/01
Matt/Jeff - SD 4/27/00
Rey/Eddie - SD 1/6/05
Cena/Eddie - SD 9/11/03
Edge/Angle/Eddie/Benoit - SD 12/5/02
Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit/Edge & Rey Mysterio SD 11/7/02
Eddie/Angle - SD 2005
Taker/Batista - Cage Match - SD 2007
Khali/Taker - LMS - Smackdown 2006

Here are some off the top of my head.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Rock vs Punk at the Rumble was just extremely directionless. I'd blame it on ring rust from the Rock. But that shouldn't be a case for a professional. Should be getting his family in the ring at home and practicing. Rumble would be a DUD, I'd agree. Chamber on rewatch was around **.

Watching Starrcade, imo extraordinary match quality, haven't got to the main event.
Bob Orton & Dick Slater vs Mark Youngblood & Wahoo McDaniels ***1/4
Charlie Brown vs Kabuki w/ Gary Hart ***
Roddy Piper vs United States Heavyweight Champion Greg Valentine in a Dog Collar match ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I'm doing a project of mine for the top 30 greatest matches in Smackdown history. Already got the big ones (i.e. Benoit/Orton, Angle/Taker, Austin/Benoit, TLC III, etc.) so I kinda need some help in looking for GEMZ~


Finlay vs Benoit 2006
Undertaker vs Finlay 2007
Undertaker vs Kane 2008
Undertaker vs Festus 2008
Cena vs Big Show 2009



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Yer after I finish this Wrestlemania countdown, I might do a yearly review  or review all the extreme rules PPV's and drop a top 10 for the event.
> 
> Yer i did 29 precisely for that and it felt like a nice number so its not to long like 50 were and not too short like 10, so we miss out on some classics.
> 
> ...


Always a fun project. I need to start moving onto the Smackdown side of 2010. Christian vs McIntyre matches. :mark:

Perhaps. Something was always a bit iffy between them. Never could put my finger on it, but it was.

That's brilliant. Lucky you. Dude, I can only imagine Taker's entrance. WM 27 is mesmerizing to watch b/c the entire arena was in awe as he entered. Legit every eye on him.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Adding on to Thewrestlingfan's list

Mysterio/Morrison 2009
Punk/Hardy Cage 2009
Lesnar/Benoit 2003
Lesnar/Mysterio 2003


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finlay vs Matt Hardy from 2007 iirc is another gem that should be viewed.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Always a fun project. I need to start moving onto the Smackdown side of 2010. Christian vs McIntyre matches. :mark:
> 
> Perhaps. Something was always a bit iffy between them. Never could put my finger on it, but it was.
> 
> That's brilliant. Lucky you. Dude, I can only imagine Taker's entrance. WM 27 is mesmerizing to watch b/c the entire arena was in awe as he entered. Legit every eye on him.


Yer Extreme Rules always has something good on the cards, so I might review that PPV series next, then tackle a big one like a full year review (Y) Dont get me started on my love for Christian/Mcintrye :mark: Christian as a babyface is just so great(Y) 

Its just an experience to see the Undertakers entrance live, its something every wrestling fan must witness, the goosebumps going down yours arms its juts incredible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Extreme Rules top 10 sounds like fun. *I won't steal the list I promise. :side:*

Absolutely. Don't know how much he has left to give, but I'll try and see him. Someday. Haven't been to a show in years and he didn't wrestle. Only cost Diesel the WWF Championship in a cage vs Bret. _(same ending as the PPV match via this house show.)_


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker/Triple H/Big Show/Kozlof - SD 2008
Undertaker/Orton - SD 9/12/2005
6 Man Elimination Match (for the WHC) - SD 7/27/2005

Other hidden gems ^^^


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Extreme Rules top 10 sounds like fun. *I won't steal the list I promise. :side:*
> 
> Absolutely. Don't know how much he has left to give, but I'll try and see him. Someday. Haven't been to a show in years and he didn't wrestle. Only cost Diesel the WWF Championship in a cage vs Bret. _(same ending as the PPV match via this house show.)_


If you ask nicely, I might let you steal the idea and you can make one as well :agree: no doubt KOK will jump in with a list as well so he can praise Cena/Brock some more 

Well if I get my wish I'll see his last match at WM30 against Cena, and ill hopefully be near the front row so everyone will be able to see me :mark: out big time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> praise Cena/Brock some more


And rightly so :yum: Im still like WTF when i watch it now, Brock - what a legde :faint:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

zep81 said:


> And rightly so :yum: Im still like WTF when i watch it now, Brock - what a legde :faint:


Such an awesome performance from both guys, I swear someone praises this match or talks about it every few days, rightfully so (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Such an awesome performance from both guys, I swear someone praises this match or talks about it every few days, rightfully so (Y)


I still get fustrated at the finish if im honest, but Brock's performance is so good that i think ah fuck it lol , i make sure i press stop if i watch the PPV version as Cena's dumb-ass, pathetic fucking speech does really wind me up, what a twat :gun:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I still get fustrated at the finish if im honest, but Brock's performance is so good that i think ah fuck it lol , i make sure i press stop if i watch the PPV version as Cena's dumb-ass, pathetic fucking speech does really wind me up, what a twat :gun:


Same I get frustated to no end with that finish, but I can look past it because its such an awesome match. Brock deserves a shrine of himself so we can all bow down to it :brock

Yer I dont understand the need for that speak, he didnt leave or anything.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Big return ratings:

Lesnar vs Cena *****
Lesnar vs HHH **** 

Rock vs Cena **3/4
Rock vs Punk I ***1/2

Jericho vs Punk WM ****1/4
Jericho vs Punk ER ***1/2
2013 chamber ****

These are of the matches I recall or care to comment on. I highly anticipate Lesnar and Jericho's next matches, and in a dream situation they would face themselves somewhere down the line. But Jericho will probably be busy laying down for some other snot nosed punk


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Name all the matches you got so far, and then i might be able to throw some other gems out there for ya


Angle vs Lesnar Iron Man
Eddie vs Rey 05
Angle vs Taker 03
Angle vs Taker 06
Austin vs Benoit 01
TLC III
Benoit vs Orton 05
Benoit vs Orton NHB
Benoit vs Lesnar
Rey vs Angle vs Benoit
Angle & Benoit vs Edge & Rey 2oo3f
Eddie vs Edge No DQ
Rey vs Orton 06
Benoit vs Finlay May 06
Rey vs Morrison
Orton vs Christian I

I'm essentially half-way through, thanks for some of the suggestions 

EDIT~ Saw talk about an Extreme Rules Top 10, I'm counting One Night Stand too:
1 - Lesnar/Cena 12
2 - Cena/RVD 06
3 - Edge, Foley & Lita/Funk, Dreamer & Beaulah 06
4 - Punk/Jericho 12
5 - Sheamus/Bryan 12
6 - Taker/Edge 08
7 - Christian/ADR 11
8 - Edge/Jeff 09
9 - Cena/Batista 10
10 - Tanaka/Awesome 05


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone else fucking adore Mankind vs. HBK from Mind Games, Watched it for the 3rd time in like 4 weeks. The star rating for it by me is *****3/4* - Mick Foely's top 5 performances for sure.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Lesnar vs Cena ****1/2 - If people are going to criticise the booking of Rock vs Punk I then the booking of this match also needs to be criticised. Stars would have been higher if Lesnar had won.
Lesnar vs HHH *** 1/2 

Rock vs Cena ***3/4 - I'll watch again. It's probably either a high 3 star match or JUST a 4 star match
Rock vs Punk I ***1/2

Jericho vs Punk WM ****
Jericho vs Punk ER ****1/2
2013 chamber ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booking in Cena vs Brock is *NOTHING* like the booking in Punk vs Rock.

Not a single bit.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Anyone else fucking adore Mankind vs. HBK from Mind Games, Watched it for the 3rd time in like 4 weeks. The star rating for it by me is *****3/4* - Mick Foely's top 5 performances for sure.


I've already stated my love for this match, a top 10 favourite match of mine. 

Top 25 match in the company's history in my view ***** 3/4*

The storytelling is top notch, as the roles reverse with mankind trying to use all his flashy moves to put away HBK and HBK showing his vicious side. HBK attacking the hand was :mark: it's so weird that hardly anybody ever tried to attack the hand of mankind to neutralize the mandible claw. Fuck I hate the ending though, made no sense Vader was so slow that HBK could of still pinned Mankind. Any sort of finish and it would be 5 stars for me and a potential top 10 match in WWE history.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Shawn Michaels vs Mankind, that was a match I have enjoyed both times I've watched it, but I always forget what happened throughout the match the next day. Think I had it ****. May get back round to it in the coming months.

Final 2 matches from Starrcade '83
NWA World Tag Team Champions Jerry and Jack Brisco vs Jay Youngblood & Ricky Steamboat ***1/2
NWA World Heavyweight Champion vs Ric Flair in the Steel Cage ****1/4

Brilliant event. Two fantastic, brutal brawls in Piper/Valentine & Race/Flair, two great tag team matches in Slater/Orton vs M. Youngblood/Wahoo McDaniels & Briscos vs J. Youngblood & Steamboat. And a match I weirdly enjoyed in Brown & Kabuki.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I've already stated my love for this match, a top 10 favourite match of mine.
> 
> Top 25 match in the company's history in my view ***** 3/4*
> 
> The storytelling is top notch, as the roles reverse with mankind trying to use all his flashy moves to put away HBK and HBK showing his vicious side. HBK attacking the hand was :mark: it's so weird that hardly anybody ever tried to attack the hand of mankind to neutralize the mandible claw. Fuck I hate the ending though, made no sense Vader was so slow that HBK could of still pinned Mankind. Any sort of finish and it would be 5 stars for me and a potential top 10 match in WWE history.


The ending was kinda meh but i did love Taker in the casket, It probably does make my top 25 WWE/WWF matches. It's just such an extraordinary match, the brutality was awesome and i loved the spots. It makes me think why didn't they have anymore matches after that, A ladder match seems like it would have been epic.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I could never fully enjoy a match if I hate the finish. Case in point: Mindgames.

But both Brock/Cena and Cena/Orton I Quit finishes make sense to me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

To the guy looking for SmackDown gems, look no further than:

World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Mysterio & Kidman (8/14/03)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The eternal match linked to JE187. I should have remembered to snub it from him for kicks. :side:

I was too busy plugging Undertaker & Finlay matches to notice. *sigh*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> The eternal match linked to JE187. I should have remembered to snub it from him for kicks. :side:
> 
> I was too busy plugging Undertaker & Finlay matches to notice. *sigh*


I was lookin for it in your list.  

Too lazy to look for it, but I know it's on dailymotion. If anyone's looking for it and you find a SD match where Rey's wearing baby blue pants, BOOM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2#.UTNeFjCR98E

BOOM


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> To the guy looking for SmackDown gems, look no further than:
> 
> World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Mysterio & Kidman (8/14/03)


Mysterio and Kidman was a tag team that should have lasted longer. Their work together in WCW was great.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Watching the story of Edge documentary currently, great stuff so far.  



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Read an idea with Shield vs. Sheamus/Orton/Show where Show's allegiance is in question. The match ends with Orton turning heel on Sheamus and Shield reaping the benefits. It'd prolong the Shield storyline past Mania and also allow for Sheamus/heel Orton following Mania.
> 
> I'd be down for that.


I like that idea. (Y)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Watching the story of Edge documentary currently, great stuff so far.


Have you watched A Decade of Decadence yet or is that coming after?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2#.UTNeFjCR98E
> 
> BOOM


BOOM. Watch this match, folks.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Have you watched A Decade of Decadence yet or is that coming after?


Coming after. Wanted to watch the doc first and I've read the story of Edge was much more about the documentary stuff, whereas the other DVD was more about the matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Watching the story of Edge documentary currently, great stuff so far.


I wanted to work out by moving tires after I watched it.

But, all fun aside, it was good. Need to own it eventually. And yeah, I'll plug Edge's DoD set. Comprised most of the Edge matches well worth seeing. Could have used a few Orton on TV matches from 2004, but the one following Backlash 2007 made it and that's good too.

I too second the must watch notion of WGTT vs Filthy Animals.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Coming after. Wanted to watch the doc first and I've read the story of Edge was much more about the documentary stuff, whereas the other DVD was more about the matches.


Yeah, they're both great. DOD is one of the best sets of matches on a single superstar DVD set (even though it's missing one or two great matches), so you should enjoy it big time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Which matches, iyo?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There's a Lance Storm discussion going on in the WWE Thread. Yeah, apparently this guy is one of the best wrestlers of all time. How does one of the best not draw a dime?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I can't remember the full set exactly, but I think it missed out the steel cage match vs Matt Hardy at Unforgiven '05. As you mentioned above, there are a couple of Raw matches against Orton that should have made it. I think it had one match against Eddie on there, from Unforgiven '02 I think. There was a great one on Smackdown around that time that I rate highly. Can't remember the exact date though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> There's a Lance Storm discussion going on in the WWE Thread. Yeah, apparently this guy is one of the best wrestlers of all time. *How does one of the best not draw a dime?*


In ring talent and marketability are two different things. Ricky Steamboat IS a greater/better/more talented wrestler than Bill Goldberg. The latter drew more money for WCW and is probably more well known to more people. 

Although I don't particularly think Lance Storm is one of the best wrestlers ever anyway.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Storm was never World Champion material, but I enjoyed his stuff in WCW. I think some people missed the point that he was supposed to be this boring, monotone guy - "If I can be serious for a moment" etc. He was solid in the ring, but I can see why people didn't like him. Nothing about him jumped out and grabbed the attention of people.


----------



## pryme tyme (Jul 13, 2007)

Edge's: You Think You Know Me, was awesome. Just realized it was on netflix the other day, good amount of exclusive footage/interviews that I've never seen before. Definitely wort checking out, some of Edge's comments looking back now might be different from how you perceived him. I always enjoy someone's work that much more after they have a documentary released and you really start to understand them as people more.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Clique said:


> In ring talent and marketability are two different things. Ricky Steamboat IS a greater/better/more talented wrestler than Bill Goldberg. The latter drew more money for WCW and is probably more well known to more people.
> 
> Although I don't particularly think Lance Storm is one of the best wrestlers ever anyway.


Oh come on. Ricky Steamboat was a draw for HIS time.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Booking in Cena vs Brock is *NOTHING* like the booking in Punk vs Rock.
> 
> Not a single bit.


 The booking in Punk vs Rock developed Punk's delusional character so it made sense. I prefered if it didn't happen but I totally understood why it happened. The ending of Cena vs Brock was just stupid. I've heard the arguments of how Cena got the ultimate underdog victory by taking advantage of Lesnar's cocky arrogant and pinning him immediately after hitting him with a chain shot + finisher on the steps but it killed Brock's momentum at the time.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> Oh come on. Ricky Steamboat was a draw for HIS time.


I didn't say he wasn't. I was just pointing out that being a bigger draw or a draw at all has no bearing on in-ring talent. Ricky Steamboat would be one of the best ever even if he didn't draw a damn and he's better than guys who drew huge like Goldberg and Ultimate Warrior.

I agree that Storm is not one of the best ever but not because he didn't draw a dime it's because he wasn't at that level of talent.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

How would you grade Miz/Morrison for the WWE Title from RAW January 2011? I really liked that mathc, ***1/2 from me. It was a great brawl and a good back and forth match


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My posts always gets buried.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Well, watched the 9/8/97 edition of Raw on WWE Classics on Demand last night. That Bret/Vader match was awesome. Definitely a hidden gem. ***1/4. I'd check it out if you have Classics on Demand. Overall fun episode of Raw, too. Nothing Earth shattering that week, but everyone had something to do and it all made some kind of sense. Anyway, really liked the match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> How would you grade Miz/Morrison for the WWE Title from RAW January 2011? I really liked that mathc, ***1/2 from me. It was a great brawl and a good back and forth match


I'd give it a ***1/2 as well. It was a great TV match to kick off the year of 2011. I always thought that this match should have happened at the Royal Rumble 2011 PPV. It's a shame that they went with another Orton vs Miz match for the WWE championship instead.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> The booking in Punk vs Rock developed Punk's delusional character so it made sense. I prefered if it didn't happen but I totally understood why it happened. The ending of Cena vs Brock was just stupid. I've heard the arguments of how Cena got the ultimate underdog victory by taking advantage of Lesnar's cocky arrogant and pinning him immediately after hitting him with a chain shot + finisher on the steps but it killed Brock's momentum at the time.


Quite the contrary really. If you want to be so cut and dry about the logic behind things, the real "stupid" booking was done in Punk vs Rock. It was a shit match to begin with. Lets go into that glorious ending. Light go out. Someone attacks The Rock and puts him through a table. Ok. Mystery fun. Only we have Michael Cole screaming - not telling - SCREAMING "IT WAS THE SHIELD. HEY, REF, IT WAS THE SHIELD." That was too terrible for words to see a moment like that come into the match. Punk brings back Rock in the ring and wins. HE WINS THE MATCH. Instead Vince comes out despite no real reason to change the result except for a kayfabe grudge. Are you kidding me? Rock then pipes in how he wants to beat Punk himself. Match restarts. Rock hits one little People's Elbow and that is. There was no pop to Punk's loss. Over a year as champion all gone in a flash and in underwhelming fashion. That's not even taking into account the horrible booking behind it. It's the same stuff WCW & even TNA have been insulted for. WWE does it and now it "makes sense" b/c it tried to hype up some delusion behind Punk's character? Why is delusion even needed? He's proved himself time and time again. I don't see how delusion factors in with CM Punk a single bit. It doesn't work that way. Crappy booking in one company is crappy booking in another.

All you say about Cena vs Brock is that it was unfavorable in your opinion. Doesn't make it bad. Or even stupid. You just didn't like it b/c you thought it didn't do Brock any favors. Which, in actually, it didn't. But it didn't hurt him either. Plan from jump street was to lose. It set up his attack on H the next night which of course had seeds ALLLL the way up until now. So, when you look at the grand scheme of things it actually all played out nicely. I mean you don't have to like it, but the comparisons to Punk vs Rock I are damn near null and void.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Quite the contrary really. If you want to be so cut and dry about the logic behind things, the real "stupid" booking was done in Punk vs Rock. It was a shit match to begin with. Lets go into that glorious ending. Light go out. Someone attacks The Rock and puts him through a table. Ok. Mystery fun. Only we have Michael Cole screaming - not telling - SCREAMING "IT WAS THE SHIELD. HEY, REF, IT WAS THE SHIELD." That was too terrible for words to see a moment like that come into the match. Punk brings back Rock in the ring and wins. HE WINS THE MATCH. Instead Vince comes out despite no real reason to change the result except for a kayfabe grudge. Are you kidding me? Rock then pipes in how he wants to beat Punk himself. Match restarts. Rock hits one little People's Elbow and that is. There was no pop to Punk's loss. Over a year as champion all gone in a flash and in underwhelming fashion. That's not even taking into account the horrible booking behind it. It's the same stuff WCW & even TNA have been insulted for. WWE does it and now it "makes sense" b/c it tried to hype up some delusion behind Punk's character? Why is delusion even needed? He's proved himself time and time again. I don't see how delusion factors in with CM Punk a single bit. It doesn't work that way. Crappy booking in one company is crappy booking in another.
> 
> All you say about Cena vs Brock is that it was unfavorable in your opinion. Doesn't make it bad. Or even stupid. You just didn't like it b/c you thought it didn't do Brock any favors. Which, in actually, it didn't. But it didn't hurt him either. Plan from jump street was to lose. It set up his attack on H the next night which of course had seeds ALLLL the way up until now. So, when you look at the grand scheme of things it actually all played out nicely. I mean you don't have to like it, but the comparisons to Punk vs Rock I are damn near null and void.


 Well I'm not one of those people that 'insult' WCW or TNA for that so nice generalising there. Matches being restarted is nothing new. Chris Benoit vs Rock was restarted and it was still a very good match at the end of the night. The stipulation for the match was that if Shield interferes, Punk gets stripped so the booking in the match definitely played the stipulation well in that respect. One reason why people (not you) criticise the EC chamber match is because the DQ stipulation wasn't played but when a stipulation does get used, they think it's stupid. And that People's Elbow was meant to be symbolic to the fact that the People have defeated Punk (refer back to first segment between the two). If Rock has beaten Hogan and HHH with it then I don't see why Rock shouldn't beat Punk with it. If it was a problem at RR 2013 then it was a problem back then. 

And you not liking the Punk - Rock match doesn't make it bad, awful or stupid. It did hurt Lesnar because he lost. WWE pretty much showed that Brock looks like a jacked up guy who can dish out a beating and is a total lightweight when taking one. Sure, a chain shot and finisher on the steps hurts but when you look back at WWE's matches, I have seen chair shots, hammer shots to the head, finishers on steel steps, Lesnar himself recieving triple team attacks, cast shots and etc. and matches didn't end straight away. Lesnar took 2 moves in a minute and lost...

And no, things didn't play out nicely. Cena no sold the punishment he took from Lesnar the night next and just returned to the same old character. WWE was going somewhere with this downward spiral storyline with Cena pretty well but what happens next? He beats a UFC fighter and the storyline doesn't get remembered again. You could have continued the storyline by having Cena lose his character to change (doesn't have to turn heel). The storyline with HHH could have happened without his defeat. Are you suggesting that it's impossible for it to happen? I'm not one of those people that think Lesnar should destory all of his opponents but he should have definitely won his first few matches. If this Cena - Lesnar match happened a year after Lesnar's return then I wouldn't criticise it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just finished watching the Edge documentary, and I really enjoyed it. Learning about his upbringing and early wrestling days was especially interesting as that was nearly all new to me, the whole DVD pretty covers everything you would expect. His upbringing and early days, school days, early wrestling, getting into the WWE, tagging with Christian in the Attitude Era, early singles career, teaming with Hogan who was his favorite wrestler growing up, the moment that he broke his neck which leaved him sidelined for over a year and affected the rest of his career, his comeback and push on RAW, winning MITB, feud with Matt Hardy and the controversy that surrounded it, winning his first WWE Title at New Years Resolution 2006 which was one of my favorite moments from his career, his great feud with Cena, match with Foley, move to Smackdown and feuds with Batista and The Undertaker, WrestleMania main event against The Undertaker, alliance with Vickie, Chavo, Ryder and Hawkins on Smackdown, many moments showing his World Title wins and how most of them fit his Ultimate Opportunist character perfectly at the time, his feud with Del Rio and his tragic retirement from wrestling. Also covers a lot of his personal life over the years of his career.

The only things I wished they covered though, was his feud with Christian in 2001 after they split as as a tag team, and his Rated RKO team with Randy Orton. 

My favorite Edge personally was 2006 Edge when his Rated R Superstar character was the best thing in wrestling at the time. I also very much enjoyed him in 2004/2005 when he was rising up the ranks to becoming a star, his feud with Matt Hardy being one of my favorite feuds of his and their Steel Cage match is my favorite Steel cage match of all time. 

Overall it was a great documentary, would recommend it for anyone. Edge fan or not, you'll gain a new respect for the guy from watching it - and now that I've watched it I can move on to all the matches I've got to watch over two DVD's, many of which I have lots of fond memories of.  



HayleySabin said:


> I wanted to work out by moving tires after I watched it.
> 
> But, all fun aside, it was good. Need to own it eventually. And yeah, I'll plug Edge's DoD set. Comprised most of the Edge matches well worth seeing. Could have used a few Orton on TV matches from 2004, but the one following Backlash 2007 made it and that's good too.
> 
> I too second the must watch notion of WGTT vs Filthy Animals.





AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yeah, they're both great. DOD is one of the best sets of matches on a single superstar DVD set (even though it's missing one or two great matches), so you should enjoy it big time.


(Y)



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I can't remember the full set exactly, but I think it missed out the steel cage match vs Matt Hardy at Unforgiven '05. As you mentioned above, there are a couple of Raw matches against Orton that should have made it. I think it had one match against Eddie on there, from Unforgiven '02 I think. There was a great one on Smackdown around that time that I rate highly. Can't remember the exact date though.


I've got Matt Hardy/Edge cage match anyway on my Greatest Steel Cage matches DVD.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

greendayedgehead said:


> Big return ratings:
> 
> Lesnar vs Cena *****
> Lesnar vs HHH ****
> ...


Lesnar/Cena- ****1/4
Lesnar/HHH- ***

Rock/Cena- ***1/2
Rock/Punk I- ***3/4

Jericho/Punk WM- ****1/4
Jericho/Punk ER- ***3/4
2013 Chamber- ****


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

May as well give my two cents

Lesnar/Cena- ****3/4
Lesnar/HHH- ***1/2

Rock/Cena- ** - Not looking forward to II or the inevitable III
Rock/Punk I- DUD - FUCK THIS MATCH
Rock/Punk II - *

Jericho/Punk WM- ****
Jericho/Punk ER- ***1/4
2013 Chamber- **1/2 - HENRY was :mark: but the rest was just dull and dreary.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> Well I'm not one of those people that 'insult' WCW or TNA for that so nice generalising there. Matches being restarted are nothing new. Chris Benoit vs Rock was restarted and it was still a very good match at the end of the night. The stipulation for the match was that if Shield interferes, Punk gets stripped so the booking in the match definitely played the stipulation well in that respect. One reason why people (not you) criticise the EC chamber match is because the DQ stipulation wasn't played but when a stipulation does get used, they think it's stupid. And that People's Elbow was meant to be symbolic to the fact that the People have defeated Punk (refer back to first segment between the two). If Rock has beaten Hogan and HHH with it then I don't see why Rock shouldn't beat Punk with it. If it was a problem at RR 2013 then it was a problem back then.
> 
> And you not liking the Punk - Rock match doesn't make it bad, awful or stupid. It did hurt Lesnar because he lost. WWE pretty much showed that Brock looks like a jacked up guy who can dish out a beating and is a total lightweight when taking one. Sure, a chain shot and finisher on the steps hurts but when you look back at WWE's matches, I have seen chair shots, hammer shots to the head, finishers on steel steps, Lesnar himself recieving triple team attacks, cast shows and etc. and matches didn't end straight away. Lesnar took 2 moves in a minute and lost...
> 
> And no, things didn't play out nicely. Cena no sold the punishment he took from Lesnar the night next and just returned to the same old character. WWE was going somewhere with this downward spiral storyline with Cena pretty well but what happens next? He beats a UFC fighter and the storyline doesn't get remembered again. You could have continued the storyline by having Cena lose his character to change (doesn't have to turn heel). The storyline with HHH could have happened without his defeat. Are you suggesting that it's impossible for it to happen? I'm not one of those people that think Lesnar should destory all of his opponents but he should have definitely won his first few matches. If this Cena - Lesnar match happened a year after Lesnar's return then I wouldn't criticise it.


Not a generalization. Only a fact.

Rock vs Benoit was restarted for a logical reason. Not b/c there was a vendetta on screen played off. The lights going out were to prove it wasn't The Shield who attacked Rock. Vince never saw it. Theoretically he shouldn't have come out. It's that simple. Instead wonderful flawed logic came to light and it didn't seem to matter. The DQ stip not being used into question was a bit daft for bringing it up in the first place. However my problem with the EC match was it was yet another piss poor match up. Nah, the move itself wasn't the problem. The lackluster way it went down was. If the move happened without all of the shenanigans following, than I'm sure it wouldn't have come off so bad. That or actually enhance the drama. I'm not one to advocate a million near falls, but jeez. The match had nothing to it.

Of course it doesn't. The match being bad makes it bad. And no Lesnar was not effected. Saying that is truly asinine. If it was effect then *and here is the MAJOR clincher, you ready?* BROCK WOULD HAVE SHOWN AN EFFECT. Amazing, right? Instead you're stuck bitching and moaning that John-boy "used two moves and it wasn't very realistic b/c in wrestling I've seen so much more happen." Get off that mindset b/c you know how many topics can be used under that mentality? About a million and a half. Whole story behind Brock vs Cena was legitimacy. What's more legitimate than a steel chain to the head causing it to bleed, following by a man's most impactful move on steel steps to seal the deal in the blink of an eye? Exactly. It does work. Your personal bias won't choose to believe it. That's all there is here.

Sure they did. b/c Cena was injured and cut a promo saying he'll leave so things didn't actually work out? Get over that. It means nothing. He stayed after all. What was Cena supposed to do...never show up the next night b/c Brock beat him down so badly? Can't even believe the notion of "he no sold Brock's punishment" was uttered. That's insanity. John Cena wasn't even going to live b/c of Brock in kayfabe. The downward spiral angle was nothing more than to support the story of Cena heading into the match with Lesnar. He triumphed. He moved on. It's that simple. You're getting caught up in a plot you thought would have been better. It didn't happen so it leaves you sour to not see the preferred result. Don't know why the prospect of a character change would be in the cards as it is. It's from left field. Never hinted. Cena's character isn't even a character. It's just himself. Only thing that could illicit any change would be a heel turn.

Nah, it wouldn't be impossible to start the HHH program with him winning. But that was the basis used so ergo: it worked. Can't fight the facts. That's how it played out. Which is all I stated. So considering the way they had things go, and for the 3rd or 4th time, yes things did come into place well.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Some Starz.

Lesnar/Cena- ****1/4
Lesnar/HHH- ***1/2

Rock/Cena- ***1/2
Rock/Punk I- ***1/2

Jericho/Punk WM- **** 
Jericho/Punk ER- ****
2013 Chamber- ****


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Watching Raw/Smackdown/PPVs from 1999. This might be the best year in the company's history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Lesnar ~ ****3/4
Punker vs Jericho WM ~ ****1/2
Punker vs Jericho ER ~ ****

All that needs to be listed b/c rest was either meh or crap.

EDIT ~ '99? I remember like 5 great matches and the rest being piles of crap. Characters were pretty nifty though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> Watching Raw/Smackdown/PPVs from 1999. This might be the best year in the company's history.


Watch 2000, man.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. 2000 it is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Edge/Taker - Hell In A Cell (Summerslam 2008)

****1/2

Excellent, back when HIAC matches were worth watching and were worth a damn.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gotta agree with 2000 being overall quite superior to 99's. That year's match quality was quite weak, despite TERRIFIC character work.

Finally finished my SD project. Some might agree, some might not 
Here's the vid:


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Welp, time to download ECW '08 and ECW '09, or are the majority of the good matches online?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Watching Edge/Taker - Hell In A Cell (Summerslam 2008)
> 
> ****1/2
> 
> Excellent, back when HIAC matches were worth watching and were worth a damn.


Yup, the greatest PG era HIAC.

*****1/4*

Watched Punk/Taker HIAC recently, it was good for what? like 9 minutes?

Given more time would have been really great.

***3/4*

EDIT: Never, ever found ECW 08 online. Got 09 and 06 on tap but missing 07 and 08 for my collection of wrestling from 2000 onwards


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> EDIT ~ '99? I remember like 5 great matches and the rest being piles of crap. Characters were pretty nifty though.


I'm a sucker for all the great character work. The match quality might not be there like other years, but the shows are so easy to watch. Everything just flows effortlessly.

Val Venis banging Ken Shamrock's "sister" is phenomenal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matches #4 & #5 would wind up as my #1 & #2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> I'm a sucker for all the great character work. The match quality might not be there like other years, but the shows are so easy to watch. Everything just flows effortlessly.
> 
> Val Venis banging Ken Shamrock's "sister" is phenomenal.


Touche on that point. It is a blast to watch and I love it myself. While I do adore a strong character, I like to have a bit of wrestling to even things out. That's me. It's why I lean towards 2000 as their best overall year. Great matches combined with great character elements. It's so great.

'99 will remain in my heart b/c it was the year of Ministry Undertaker. There will never be a character I love more in this biz than that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Lesnar/Cena *****1/2*
Lesnar/HHH ******

Rock/Cena ***1/2*
Rock/Punk *****

Punk/Jericho WM ******
Punk/Jericho ER ******
2013 Elimination Chamber ****3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Edge SS 08- ****3/4

Greatest HIAC of PG Era, third greatest HIAC of all-time, and greatest Edge match of all time. Fucking phenomenal what they did there from storytelling and psychology, to pacing and a big HOLY SHIT moment, and an excellent finishing sequence that topped the feud off perfectly.

Not appreciated enough on this forum imo.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Need to watch that match again, hopefully it's one of Edge DVD's I've got.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't recall great character progression in 1999. But I agree with it being very, very easy to watch. Show pacing was excellent, crowd brought everything to life and everything was important to the product.

As for 2000, I'd have it behind only one year, WCW 1997. Triple H vs the Rock feud is probably my favourite of that era of WWE/F.


Undertaker vs Edge HiaC, ****. Had it ****1/2 when it was first released, didn't hold up too well later on. Got the same rating for their Wrestlemania 24 match. Again, that too was ****1/2.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

It's the final match on Decade of Decadence


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Need to watch that match again, hopefully it's one of Edge DVD's I've got.


A Decade of Decadence.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Matches #4 & #5 would wind up as my #1 & #2.


I suppose you're talking about my vid.

I felt like the following three had a deeper significance on me and/or wrestling itself as a whole. #4 was flawless, with some phenomenal character work and psychology, but I didn't quite believe it reached its absolute full potential. #5 would've definitely been #1, yeah... if the finish wasn't terrible.

What are your thoughts on the rest of the list?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So, I was watching Survivor Series 2000 a few hours ago. How about that William Regal rocking a gentleman gimmick? Pretty excellent, I know, I know. The beauty lies in the sheer irony of it. A man playing someone so gentile and refined yet he was single-handedly the most crushing worker on the roster. Heck, still could be these days not counting the immense beast like force of a Brock Lesnar.

So lets hear some thoughts on this. We don't even need a reason to spark up a conversation about William Regal. I figured I would get the ball rolling, however.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I HATE WWE 1999. I've downloaded it twice and on both occasions I've never managed to finish it. Always ended up just deleting it. 

I question just how the hell could '99 been such a great year for WWE. Nitro must have been real shit.

Funny enough, '99 was the year I got into wrestling.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> A Decade of Decadence.


Good. I've got two DVD's of Edge matches to get through now, so expect to see many match ratings posted in here from me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Gentleman Regal huh? I'm not familiar with this persona of him at all. My only recollection of Regal as a kid was him kissing Vince's ass.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I suppose you're talking about my vid.
> 
> I felt like the following three had a deeper significance on me and/or wrestling itself as a whole. #4 was flawless, with some phenomenal character work and psychology, but I didn't quite believe it reached its absolute full potential. #5 would've definitely been #1, yeah... if the finish wasn't terrible.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the rest of the list?


Benoit vs Finlay was much too high personally. I'm almost certain it is a top 5 match for me. Your hidden gem matches such as Mysterio vs Angle vs Benoit & some apparent 5 way were some welcomed surprises. I do not recall either match. Not a single bit. So I really am intrigued to find some time and watch them. The load of Mysterio in general was awesome. I can totally understand it. Rey is what his name entails, the King. King of consistency with great matches. Not sure if I feel the same way about Eddie vs Edge. It could be a contender for my list. Not really sure with only 30 being the number. I know I'd have much more Undertaker matches tossed in. Probably the Finlay vs Matt Hardy match I plugged too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm still hoping for a Regal run again in the 'E


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> Touche on that point. It is a blast to watch and I love it myself. While I do adore a strong character, I like to have a bit of wrestling to even things out. That's me. It's why I lean towards 2000 as their best overall year. Great matches combined with great character elements. It's so great.
> 
> '99 will remain in my heart b/c it was the year of Ministry Undertaker. There will never be a character I love more in this biz than that.


I'll probably get around to 2000 after I watch Nitro '96 through '98. :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

In terms of match quality, what year does everyone prefer? 2000 or 2001? 

Obviously both great, but I'm finding it hard to choose. 2000 was all round GOAT, but 2001 had Heel Austin's WWF Title reign which was crazy good and some great matches/feuds.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I HATE WWE 1999. I've downloaded it twice and on both occasions I've never managed to finish it. Always ended up just deleting it.
> 
> I question just how the hell could '99 been such a great year for WWE. Nitro must have been real shit.
> 
> Funny enough, '99 was the year I got into wrestling.


Same could be said for the entire peak of wrestling. Outside of the apparent workhorses, prime in ring work wasn't the high point for either WWF or WCW. WCW in '97 was actually very lackluster if not BAD in the ring pardon the stuff involving the same oh, about 10 people tops. Eddie Guerrero being the standout thanks to his evolution from face to heel over the year. To their credit, Meng & Barbarian brought the goods along with the likes of the rest. _(Radicalz, Mysterio, Regal, Jericho, DDP, Ultimo)_



sharkboy22 said:


> Gentleman Regal huh? I'm not familiar with this persona of him at all. My only recollection of Regal as a kid was him kissing Vince's ass.


Oh it's so much fun. He comes out with his jaunty music. Cuts promos on how Americans need to learn to be decent and show more good manners in proper situations. It's like his video of turning Bobby Eaton into Earl Robert Eaton in '95, only churned into an entire gimmick. Scope out some videos definitely.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

I've been trying to recall even 1 four star match from 99 and I'm coming up blank... 

Decent year for gimmicks and angles but work rate wise it's the pits...

Edit: only thing I'm remembering was big boss man as number one contender at one point ffs


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> So, I was watching Survivor Series 2000 a few hours ago. How about that William Regal rocking a gentleman gimmick? Pretty excellent, I know, I know. The beauty lies in the sheer irony of it. A man playing someone so gentile and refined yet he was single-handedly the most crushing worker on the roster. Heck, still could be these days not counting the immense beast like force of a Brock Lesnar.
> 
> So lets hear some thoughts on this. We don't even need a reason to spark up a conversation about William Regal. I figured I would get the ball rolling, however.


REGAL. Loved him as the Commissioner back in the day. Talking all posh and wearing a suit, then beating the shit out of people he worked with. AND it seemed he was very toned down in the first year or so while he was there (from his 2000 run anyway). Love the video package for his match with Jericho at WM 17 where he says something along the lines of "I'LL MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WERE HACKED UP WITH A BLOODY HATCHET" :mark:. Man, I really wonder how far he could have gone in 08 as KOTR GM UBERHEEL. Oh, and his PPV series with Edge are some of the most underrated matches ever imo. Edge wrestlers a much nastier style than usual to try and compete with Regal, and Regal really starts to get into his grove as far as his WWE work goes.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Tim Legend said:


> I've been trying to recall even 1 four star match from 99 and I'm coming up blank...
> 
> Decent year for gimmicks and angles but work rate wise it's the pits...


I Quit from the Rumble?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Of course it doesn't. The match being bad makes it bad. And no Lesnar was not effected. Saying that is truly asinine. If it was effect then *and here is the MAJOR clincher, you ready?* BROCK WOULD HAVE SHOWN AN EFFECT. Amazing, right? Instead you're stuck bitching and moaning that John-boy "used two moves and it wasn't very realistic b/c in wrestling I've seen so much more happen." Get off that mindset b/c you know how many topics can be used under that mentality? About a million and a half. Whole story behind Brock vs Cena was legitimacy. What's more legitimate than a steel chain to the head causing it to bleed, following by a man's most impactful move on steel steps to seal the deal in the blink of an eye? Exactly. It does work. Your personal bias won't choose to believe it. That's all there is here.
> 
> Sure they did. b/c Cena was injured and cut a promo saying he'll leave so things didn't actually work out? Get over that. It means nothing. He stayed after all. What was Cena supposed to do...never show up the next night b/c Brock beat him down so badly? Can't even believe the notion of "he no sold Brock's punishment" was uttered. That's insanity. John Cena wasn't even going to live b/c of Brock in kayfabe. The downward spiral angle was nothing more than to support the story of Cena heading into the match with Lesnar. He triumphed. He moved on. It's that simple. You're getting caught up in a plot you thought would have been better. It didn't happen so it leaves you sour to not see the preferred result. Don't know why the prospect of a character change would be in the cards as it is. It's from left field. Never hinted. Cena's character isn't even a character. It's just himself. Only thing that could illicit any change would be a heel turn.
> 
> Nah, it wouldn't be impossible to start the HHH program with him winning. But that was the basis used so ergo: it worked. Can't fight the facts. That's how it played out. Which is all I stated. So considering the way they had things go, and for the 3rd or 4th time, yes things did come into place well.


 About the first paragraph, sorry but if you want to talk about legitimacy then Cena shouldn't have been able to lift Brock so quickly. Why? because he got beaten up so badly. Like I said before, Lesnar is hardcore and to make him lose like that was a disgrace. 20 minutes of beating vs 1 minute beating. And I'm not biased just because I don't agree with you. If you asked me, I would have Cena beat the Rock (one of my favourites) and lose to Lesnar, a guy who needed this win to continue his impressive run.

Cena didn't sell anything. He just smiles, jokes the night and faces John Laurinitis as if nothing happened the previous night. To truly sell the beating, he needed to either take time off or leave in a stretcher after winning (but still stay active). And yes I expected Cena to take some time off. Why? because he said himself in that promo after the match. If you're going to cut a promo like then you should stick to your word and do it. The promo was a waste of time. So the downward spiral angle was just to put Cena over AGAIN? It was a waste of time again. All those promos from Cena saying how he needed to win the Rock match because it meant everything to him proved pointless because nothing developed at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> I'm still hoping for a Regal run again in the 'E


Goodness as am I.



-Mystery- said:


> I'll probably get around to 2000 after I watch Nitro '96 through '98. :mark:


(Y)

WCW in '98 was probably the time Nitro was consistently the best in terms of match quality. '96 started off quite well. Then it crumbled once the nWo came into the picture. (ironic, huh?) Plots thicken better and wrestling suffers. It wasn't until '98 where it seemed the wrestling was finally put forth in terms of quality matches over a lot in a 2 hour span. Aka lots of squash matches to go with the main event and random crusierweight affair. All my opinion of course. As much like WWF, the glory days of WCW in terms of success and popularity are always fun and worth a viewing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I hate the 6-way match from late June 2005. They have Undertaker and Benoit in the match but yet they never even touch each other and despite the good talent, the final two are Booker T and JBL. SMH.

Don't know why they had such a hard-on for a Batista/JBL feud. In the end, everything about it sucked balls, specially Batista's "JBL IS A BULLY, I DON'T LIKE BULLIES SO I'LL GIVE HIM AN ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT" nonsense. It was just so unfitting his character.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Gotta agree with 2000 being overall quite superior to 99's. That year's match quality was quite weak, despite TERRIFIC character work.
> 
> Finally finished my SD project. Some might agree, some might not
> Here's the vid:


Pretty solid list. Nice to see Eddie vs Cena's Parking Lot Brawl get an honorable mention. Also great to see Austin vs Benoit at #1. A GOAT TV match along with Benoit vs Hart on Nitro. :


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Good. I've got two DVD's of Edge matches to get through now, so expect to see many match ratings posted in here from me.


Interested to hear your thoughts. Might motivate me into finally watching them myself.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> I Quit from the Rumble?


Right... The early Rock-Foley matches from rumble and st valentines day massacre are the 2 I've come up with...

Both are right about at 4 stars in my book...Still beyond that and a couple debatable matches like test and Shane its slim pickins in 99


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

**** match from 1999 is Chris Benoit vs Triple H at No Mercy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> REGAL. Loved him as the Commissioner back in the day. Talking all posh and wearing a suit, then beating the shit out of people he worked with. AND it seemed he was very toned down in the first year or so while he was there (from his 2000 run anyway). Love the video package for his match with Jericho at WM 17 where he says something along the lines of "I'LL MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU WERE HACKED UP WITH A BLOODY HATCHET" :mark:. Man, I really wonder how far he could have gone in 08 as KOTR GM UBERHEEL. Oh, and his PPV series with Edge are some of the most underrated matches ever imo. Edge wrestlers a much nastier style than usual to try and compete with Regal, and Regal really starts to get into his grove as far as his WWE work goes.


I noticed a bit of the toned down aspect too. His filler match vs Bob Holly wasn't going to be memorable from Survivor Series 2000, yet he dissects the arm enough for me have have a bit of interest. Only I couldn't help but notice it didn't seem AS vicious as one would expect. After seeing him pick apart Darren Young in 4 minute matches on Superstars, making them fairly excellent in the process, I knew Regal had to be holding back a touch. 

Ha. I always say that line when I put the show on. REGAL. :mark:

Don't get me started on what could have been in 2008. Oh what could have been. To make matters worse he had a few matches vs Punk that turned out to be nothing too special (iirc) & a mini program vs Jamie Noble that got the shaft for time when those could have been a dream come true if given at least 5 minutes. Nothing but so much teasing going on for me that year with him. Suppose it was all fault on him. That's the heartbreaker.

I dig the Vengeance '01 match quite a bit. Rumble I have been wanting to rewatch so I'll leave that one open. It was good, just not as good as Vengeance if my mindset sticks. NWO '02 is a woven mystery at this moment. In fact, don't believe I've seen that show. Yep, never seen it after all these years.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I hate the 6-way match from late June 2005. They have Undertaker and Benoit in the match but yet they never even touch each other and despite the good talent, the final two are Booker T and JBL. SMH.
> 
> Don't know why they had such a hard-on for a Batista/JBL feud. In the end, everything about it sucked balls, specially Batista's "JBL IS A BULLY, I DON'T LIKE BULLIES SO I'LL GIVE HIM AN ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT" nonsense. It was just so unfitting his character.


JBL last eliminated Christian to win, iirc. 



Desecrated said:


> **** match from 1999 is Chris Benoit vs Triple H at No Mercy.


*2000.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Yeah trips Beniot is pretty good but it's from 2000, however the Hardys vs E and C ladder match at nm 99 is right around 4 stars 


so counting that we're at 3 matches that are roughly 4 stars from 99


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Yup, the greatest PG era HIAC.
> 
> *****1/4*


Loved the ending too, when Taker won, saw Egde was still moving, went back and setup the ladders and chokeslammed him through the ring, great moment


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Not sure what I got that confused with.  Checked on Wikipedia, Austin/Triple H. I remember that match being very solid, too. Unfortunately not ****, about ***1/2


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Interested to hear your thoughts. Might motivate me into finally watching them myself.


Lol. I've had the DVD's for a few weeks now, been meaning to check out the matches in particular the Edge matches I haven't seen before, because there's a few I haven't seen. I've seen most of Edge's matches though, but it will be good to re-watch those matches I've seen again. 

For instance I haven't seen Edge/Cena Summerslam, only seen the result of that match through highlights, and I read HayleySabin (I think?) said that was Cena and Edge's best match together.



HayleySabin said:


> JBL last eliminated Christian to win, iirc.


That match pissed me off. Christian came so close.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> JBL last eliminated Christian to win, iirc.


Knew it was between Christian and Booker. Still a very terrible choice. Christian should have never been drafted to begin with. He was on a roll over on Raw but then they give him a title match, draft him and despite fans' cheering, keep him heel and bury the fuck out of him until he decided to quit and not renew his contract. As good as 2005 was, there were so many awful booking decisions and missed opportunities, it's a crime!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Rock from Backlash '99
Hardys vs Edge & Christian from No Mercy '99

idk about a set "star rating" behind it but I know Al Snow vs Hardcore Holly hardcore matches are actually excellent. I'm not even half joking. Some that are close to earning super high marks in my book would happen to be Unholy Alliance vs Kane/X-Pac, Test vs Shane, & Tag Team Turmoil from Summerslam. Also Austin vs Undertaker from Fully Loaded is great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> For instance I haven't seen Edge/Cena Summerslam, only seen the result of that match through highlights, and I read HayleySabin (I think?) said that was Cena and Edge's best match together.
> 
> That match pissed me off. Christian came so close.


Yeah it was. Pretty great match. If only their chemistry reached that point every time.

I was so mad back then. Imagine if you liked JBL but were a bit bored of him in the main event scene and he wins the new championship of Christian. K. Then chuck in the fact that someone you (me) despised in Batista was drafted and brought over the World Championship thus making the 6 way match completely pointless. I wasn't a happy 14 year old Cody when that night ended. Sulk city.



Choke2Death said:


> Knew it was between Christian and Booker. Still a very terrible choice. Christian should have never been drafted to begin with. He was on a roll over on Raw but then they give him a title match, draft him and despite fans' cheering, keep him heel and bury the fuck out of him until he decided to quit and not renew his contract. As good as 2005 was, there were so many awful booking decisions and missed opportunities, it's a crime!


With Undertaker out via the DQ on Hassan, Christian was my guy. Only to come SOOO close to lose it in a flash. Don't even get me started on his booking on Smackdown. The following week he lost to Batista. The sulking grew.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Knew it was between Christian and Booker. Still a very terrible choice. Christian should have never been drafted to begin with. He was on a roll over on Raw but then they give him a title match, draft him and despite fans' cheering, keep him heel and bury the fuck out of him until he decided to quit and not renew his contract. As good as 2005 was, there were so many awful booking decisions and missed opportunities, it's a crime!


This. They fucked up on Hassan in 2005 too, but despite that it was still probably my favorite year (04 and 06 come close). Christian was gold on RAW, was getting regular promo time, was over, great character, actually won some matches, was in the WWE Title feud with Cena and Jericho, but when they drafted him to Smackdown they jobbed him out, he wasn't getting that attention anymore, no promo time, and I don't blame him one bit for leaving at the time.

Edit:



HayleySabin said:


> Yeah it was. Pretty great match. If only their chemistry reached that point every time.
> 
> I was so mad back then. Imagine if you liked JBL but were a bit bored of him in the main event scene and he wins the new championship of Christian. K. Then chuck in the fact that someone you (me) despised in Batista was drafted and brought over the World Championship thus making the 6 way match completely pointless. I wasn't a happy 14 year old Cody when that night ended. Sulk city.


At this point, my favorite Edge/Cena match is their TLC match, but I'll have to check out that Summerslam match.

I liked JBL, but I was pissed when Christian didn't win that match. It was Christian's perfect time to shine then, JBL had his run and that's when I liked JBL the most, but I much preferred Christian. And then JBL's win became pointless was just fpalm 

I was an annoyed 12 year old at the time.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Did they really fuck up on Hassan though? They really didn't have any choice but to write off his character, although, you could argue they put themselves in that position anyways.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was poor timing that killed Hassan. The bombing happen the same night the tapings aired with the terrorists. WWE backed themselves into a corner without any knowledge such a thing would happen. It's almost the same case with Vince's limo blowing up angle and the Benoit tragedy immediately following it.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Admittedly not sure if I've seen Austin v Rocky at backlash 99 since it happened 14 years ago... So I'll check it out at some point...

Holly and Snow are fun but yeah I wouldn't include them in a best of 99... Actually maybe I would considering the selection is so limited :lol


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

The thing that always shocked me about Hassan is they never bothered bringing him back. I mean when the whole Daniel Bryan fiasco with the necktie happened they let everything blow over then brought him back. I know Hassan aspired for an acting career, but still surprised they never bothered to try bringing him back once everything blew over.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> With Undertaker out via the DQ on Hassan, Christian was my guy. Only to come SOOO close to lose it in a flash. Don't even get me started on his booking on Smackdown. The following week he lost to Batista. The sulking grew.


Then he had the pointless feud with Booker T and even more pointless Peep Shows with Rey Mysterio and Eddie. It just made no sense how he went from being the next potential star to a jobber to the stars.



Nostalgia said:


> This. They fucked up on Hassan in 2005 too, but despite that it was still probably my favorite year (04 and 06 come close). Christian was gold on RAW, was getting regular promo time, was over, great character, actually won some matches, was in the WWE Title feud with Cena and Jericho, but when they drafted him to Smackdown they jobbed him out, he wasn't getting that attention anymore, no promo time, and I don't blame him one bit for leaving at the time.


With Hassan, it was the controversy but they do deserve the blame because they should've never introduced that stupid "sympathizer" side to his character with the terrorists. It went against everything he stood for. He hated being vilified for the errors of others then they turn around and make him another one of the very people who he hated being held down by. They made a lot of great decision in 2005 with the Orton/Taker feud and creating new stars in Cena & Batista but there was also lots of bullshit like booking some of their best talents like Benoit, Christian, Jericho and Shelton directionless for so long.

And thought I'd mention this since JBL was being discussed a couple of pages back. The gross image of his out of shape body in wrestling gear before he became a commentator flashes in front of me. UGH, he was so damn wide in his last match with Rey.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I think they did seriously screw with Hassan's character. He started out as a man who basically threw America's "stereotypical or racists attitudes" back in their faces. Hassan was an American angry that he was treated differently because he had the same ethnicity as the terrorists on 9/11. He was not like them but he hates the Americans too. WWE then decided to add goons in full on terrorists garb with masks and all to the character, and turned Hassan into what he argued he wasn't. To add to that it was unfortunately at the wrong time during the terrorist attack in London. I personally think it's amazing that character to this day talked about. They could have do much more with him in the midcard or main event level with better writing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> At this point, my favorite Edge/Cena match is their TLC match, but I'll have to check out that Summerslam match.
> 
> I liked JBL, but I was pissed when Christian didn't win that match. It was Christian's perfect time to shine then, JBL had his run and that's when I liked JBL the most, but I much preferred Christian. And then JBL's win became pointless was just fpalm
> 
> I was an annoyed 12 year old at the time.


TLC wouldn't rank high for me. I know if I gave their RAW match with Foley as ref I'll have that over it too. Maybe. Certain it is a lock. It's been put over as really good and I remember liking it when I first saw it. Things change of course. Been wondering if their World Championship match on RAW in 2009 is any good too. It gets a good bit of time. Only has a bunk finish I do believe. If the match was fine I can cope. Anything to see the guys actually work a match that matters since so many of them really don't.

Oh same here. JBL is awesome. But to see him step down in place of someone new, like Christian, is what I was ready for. Only it didn't happen. Instead Hassan was set to be the new guy. So part of the reason why JBL vs Batista was extended past GAB was due to unfortunate circumstance. Luckily Eddie came into the picture after it. Didn't last long enough and we all know why.  Worst thing ever.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

What the fuck are Public Enemy doing on my TV in 1999?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

WWE ruined Hassan when they did that Hassan/Taker terrorist angle on Smackdown, they ran with something very hot and went too far with it. Hassan's character was supposed to be the Arab American trying to remove the prejudice against Arab Americans after 9/11, and they ran with that for most of his run, he got great heat whenever he went, there was no need to ruin things with the way with the way the went. The timing of the London Bombings ruined it and at that point they had no choice, but WWE did mess up with him.



HayleySabin said:


> Oh same here. JBL is awesome. But to see him step down in place of someone new, like Christian, is what I was ready for. Only it didn't happen. Instead Hassan was set to be the new guy. So part of the reason why JBL vs Batista was extended past GAB was due to unfortunate circumstance. Luckily Eddie came into the picture after it. Didn't last long enough and we all know why.  Worst thing ever.


I heard a rumor that Hassan was supposed to beat The Undertaker and then go on to win the World Title, could of happened with how hot Hassan was at the time but we all know how that turned out. Also heard that Eddie was going to become a World Champion again shortly before he died. So sad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hmm.... Directionless booking of everybody besides the main eventers eh ? :vince


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Nostalgia said:


> WWE ruined Hassan when they did that Hassan/Taker terrorist angle on Smackdown, they ran with something very hot and went too far with it. Hassan's character was supposed to be the Arab American trying to remove the prejudice against Arab Americans after 9/11, and they ran with that for most of his run, he got great heat whenever he went, there was no need to ruin things with the way with the way the went. The timing of the London Bombings ruined it and at that point they had no choice, but WWE did mess up with him.


My memory is hazy, but was he drawing good heat with his 'I'm not like every other Arab American' routine? I mean if he wasn't good enough by Vince's standards or whatever I can understand shifting the characters towards something you know for sure everyone will universally despise.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hassan was probably the last 100 percent unlikable HEEL that I can remember. The heat he got at Wrestlemania 21 was.... God damn .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm glad they got rid of Hassan. Didn't think he was anything special beyond getting heat because American's are racist and shit against anyone that isn't American. His in ring skills were pretty poor and he didn't have any matches I'd point to and call good.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

My knock on Hassan was he was too green for the push he was getting and you could tell from his matches...

But he was on the way to being the one of the top heels in the company and got the short end like so many before him who had potential


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Hmm.... Directionless booking of everybody besides the main eventers eh ? :vince


2005 is pretty much when the downfall started. SuperCena was running wild like never before (even if he was a better character then), tag team and women's division started dying and turning into a joke plus directionless midcarders as said. Hell, somebody has directly quoted Stephanie saying that the writers shouldn't be concerned about writing something for the midcarders and just focus on Angle/Cena. It was the start towards the "new" era following the 'classic' years from the AE and the initial AE aftermath. Only difference is, now they don't have the star power and talent to cover up their booking shortcomings like they did 7-8 years ago.



-Mystery- said:


> My memory is hazy, but was he drawing good heat with his 'I'm not like every other Arab American' routine? I mean if he wasn't good enough by Vince's standards or whatever I can understand shifting the characters towards something you know for sure everyone will universally despise.


Yep, those "infidels" booed him everywhere he went. "USA" chants on a weekly basis.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I wish WWE could develop a show like Heat again.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> I'm glad they got rid of Hassan. Didn't think he was anything special beyond getting heat *because American's are racist and shit against anyone that isn't American.* His in ring skills were pretty poor and he didn't have any matches I'd point to and call good.


That was the key thing to why he was such a great heel character - Hassan WAS American and he threw their prejudice and stereotypes back in their faces. Of course he did all of this in a negative light which made the heat he received even better.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> My memory is hazy, but was he drawing good heat with his 'I'm not like every other Arab American' routine? I mean if he wasn't good enough by Vince's standards or whatever I can understand shifting the characters towards something you know for sure everyone will universally despise.


He would draw heat in a lot of ways. And he would draw a lot of it, more than anyone in the WWE at the time. Don't understand why Vince push it that step too far. My memory is a bit hazy on some of it too. I remember I made a thread on this forum dedicated to Hassan's run though, filed with lots of detail and many videos of his promos and stuff to educate those who may not of seen his run in the WWE, but with WWE cleaning up lots of videos on Youtube I think many of those videos are gone now, I'll check.

Edit: Here's my Hassan thread :http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/602528-what-your-opinion-muhammad-hussan.html many of the videos have been removed :/ But it's still a good read, have a read yourself if you want, but don't bump it because it's a old thread. 



KingOfKings said:


> Hassan was probably the last 100 percent unlikable HEEL that I can remember. The heat he got at Wrestlemania 21 was.... God damn .


He got REAL heel heat. People hated him. I've heard he was getting death threats, many people complaining and writing angry letters to the WWE demanding to take his character off TV. Many of them being Arab Americans offended and embarrassed at the character WWE were portraying. In the end it was News companies that pretty much forced WWE to take him off TV.



Big Z said:


> I'm glad they got rid of Hassan. Didn't think he was anything special beyond getting heat because American's are racist and shit against anyone that isn't American. His in ring skills were pretty poor and he didn't have any matches I'd point to and call good.


He was like 23/24 when he was in the WWE and only had a year of wrestling experience before being throw on TV so he was bound to be green in the ring, but he had a great character, great mic worker, drew great heat, I was sold on him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So by the logic that makes Hassan good means I could go out and slam America and get great heat? :hmm:

Americans are nothing but muck savages. PRAISE IRELAND.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I remember in the 2005 Rumble I guess, when Hassan entered the ring everybody stopped and was like, "fuck this guy" and they killed the guy .

But, speaking of Irish, I am thinking of going through Sheamus's TV matches from last year because god damn I do not remember a single bad match on TV, just off the top of my head he had fun matches with Ziggler, Punk, Sandow, Bryan, Barrett, Cesaro, Tensai and Jericho. If someone could list some of his matches with dates and stars I would be very appreciate, because I am sure some of those matches are worth nominations


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> I remember in the 2005 Rumble I guess, when Hassan entered the ring everybody stopped and was like, "fuck this guy" and they killed the guy .
> 
> But, speaking of Irish, I am thinking of going through Sheamus's TV matches from last year because god damn I do not remember a single bad match on TV, just off the top of my head he had fun matches with Ziggler, Punk, Sandow, Bryan, Barrett, Cesaro, Tensai and Jericho. If someone could list some of his matches with dates and stars I would be very appreciate, because I am sure some of those matches are worth nominations


Some I recall (don't know dates though):
vs Jericho Feb - ***1/4
vs Ziggler pos-WM SD - ***1/2
vs Orton OTL go-home show - ***1/2
vs Ziggler vs ADR - ***
vs Bryan Street Fight - ***3/4
vs Jericho July - ****
vs Cesaro Raw Sep - ***3/4
vs Punk ME - ***1/2
vs Barrett ME - ***1/2
vs Sandow somewhere in Nov - ***1/4

Yup, dude was/is a workhorse.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Is Cesaro/Miz 2 out of 3 falls from Smackdown worth seeing?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

vs. Big Show, Xmas Eve ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Is Cesaro/Miz 2 out of 3 falls from Smackdown worth seeing?


It's decent. **



Ever Wolf said:


> vs. Big Show, Xmas Eve ***1/2


****.

Nothing but stars in this post. Sometimes that's the way it is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 26/05/2009

OMG THIS COULD BE THE MOST AWESOME THING EVER.

Fun cat and mouse shit at the start, then Henry just fucking runs over Bourne and he probably could have pinned him there and it would have been a legit finish.

Bourne tries a comeback with some quick kicks... so what does the POWERFUL Henry do? ROUNDHOUSE KICKS BOURNE IN THE HEAD. That'll teach you for kicking him, you little shit!

Some of the most awesomely brutal back breaker submission spots in this match too. Henry just pushing Bourne down onto his knee following a back breaker looked so deadly. Bourne's comebacks with knee strikes and kicks look great every time. 

Finish is great too. Henry LOSES by countout, following some great sequences by Bourne, who was able to make it back into the ring by jumping on Henry's back and diving back into the ring! This was tremendous for the time it got.

Rating: ***1/4

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger, Tyson Kidd & David Hart Smith - ECW 26/05/2009

Dreamer is perhaps THE most entertaining he's ever been in his entire career earlier in the night. Tiffany was in the ring telling Swagger and Christian of a triple threat match for the title at the next PPV, and all the time she was talking, Dreamer was strutting around like Flair, waving, grinding and flexing :lmao. I have no idea why, but it was AWESOME.

Urgh, I hope Smith doesn't do much in this match. Finlay was supposed to be in this, but he got involved in a fight between Christian & Dreamer in the back and hurt his eye so he can't compete. I thought he was supposed to be a tough Irish bastard?

This is pretty fucking sweet. Plenty of time, nice babyface shine, then Dreamer gets murdered for a good while. Swagger does a lot of the work, so Kidd and Smith only stay in for short periods, cutting any of their shit down to a minimum. They really do a great job of killing Tommy.

Finish reminds me of the awesome 24/2 match, as Swagger launches Christian shoulder first into the ring post then follows up with a massive Gut Wrench Powerbomb. Then Dreamer gets beat up some more after the bell. Yey.

Great match.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Finally got round to watching the Chamber matches i wanted to see.

Chamber match - ***1/2

6 man Tag - ****

Rock v Punk - **1/2


The Chamber had its moments but far from the best chamber matches.

The 6 man was excellent, hot crowd and loved the team work of the Shield, match was really well paced. Best ppv match so far this year.

Rock v Punk was quite fun, but not something i will watch again. Rock has lost a step.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Starz for Punk/Henry series last year or any other matches they had?

About to go through them :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal I AGREE WITH BOTH COMMENTS. AGREE.

Henry vs Bourne I was like really, really good. Almost knew it was going to exceed my expectations when I checked it out. Henry is too stellar in his role and vice versa with Bourne. A nifty 6 minute David vs Goliath display right there.

Punk vs Henry I & III last year are both **** star matches. So :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Henry saga ( :mark: ) :
Miami - ***3/4
II - ***1/4
No DQ - ***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LINK (nice HD one would be awesomes ) to the first Punk/Henry Raw match please? 

They had a fun one in ECW in early 2010 I believe it was (that ECW Homecoming tournament thingy). Not on the level of their 2012 matches by any means, but still fun and shit.

OH SHIT, HENRY/BOURNE REMATCH THE WEEK AFTER ON ECW :mark:.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

What a great match ****3/4*

Punk plays the face in peril so well.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Henry:

Miami - ****
II - N/A
No DQ - ***1/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

OH. MY. GOD.

LOVE this. I think it's on par if not better than the Miami one. 2013 feud plz.

****3/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 02/06/2009

Rematch :mark:

Similar start to last week, only Bourne gets a little offence in first before Henry runs him the fuck over just the same.

Henry is just such a fucking incredible monster. Why they ever made him a babyface is beyond me. He is MADE to crush everyone that gets in his way. He's just so fucking awesome here. Works over Bourne's back again. Love how at one point he just strolls over to Bourne who is down on the mat, and drops his knee onto his back then walks away smiling.

EPIC fall away slam too. And then Tony Atlas gets involved and Henry is DQ'd and this ends before it can reach the levels of last week. Henry starts screaming at Tony. Looks like they gonna split up. There'd BETTER BE a third match next week. Should have happened on PPV, since Extreme Rules is coming up at the end of the week.

Rating: **3/4

Christian Vs Tyson Kidd - ECW 02/06/2009

Great dynamic between the two here, with Tyson as the young "technical" expert and Christian the wise old veteran using his experience to counter Kidd's technique and skill as much as possible. Then a bump into the steel steps puts a hold on Christian's momentum and Kidd works over Christian nicely.

Fucking sweeeeeet counter from a front dropkick by Kidd into a sit out powerbomb by Christian.

:lmao at Swagger when he comes out. Looks like some old movie villain creepy up on Christian :lmao. Chaos on the outside with Dreamer coming out to even the odds and take down Swagger and Smith, and Christian manages to keep it together and pick up the win. This was good. Christian rules. Kidd looked great. Chaos at the end was nice and didn't distract from the match in any way, so yey to that too.

Rating: ***1/4

Think I'll go watch Henry/Punk before the PPV triple threat match between Swagger/Christian/Dreamer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A third Henry vs Bourne match for the next week? Ha.

Oh and instead we got a random 4 way to put over Kofi Kingston & Santino in drag vs Guerreros in a Hog Pen over Henry vs Bourne on PPV. This company sometimes.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Christian needs to return.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Christian needs to return.


This. Heard from someone on the forum that he's been cleared since January, but yet he hasn't returned yet - probably because WWE don't know what do with him. He should of returned at The Royal Rumble, a return on a big stage like that would of brought relevancy back to him again and I would of liked him to start a feud with Cesaro over the US Title. Knowing WWE, he probably won't return until after Mania and Christian will miss another WrestleMania again.  The guy hasn't competed at a Mania since WM 26 and hasn't won at a Mania since WM20.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

wish my ECW 09 torrents would finish downloading got July-Dec but really want to watch from the start of the year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> A third Henry vs Bourne match for the next week? Ha.
> 
> Oh and instead we got a random 4 way to put over Kofi Kingston & Santino in drag vs Guerreros in a Hog Pen over Henry vs Bourne on PPV. This company sometimes.


Had a quick look at the next ep. Both sad and hilarious at the same time :lmao .



Platt said:


> wish my ECW 09 torrents would finish downloading got July-Dec but really want to watch from the start of the year.


Getting it from XWT? I shall seed!

Also, just watched Henry/Punk I. Awesome, awesome match, but I think I might like their 3rd one just a little more. Henry is THE MAN in it though. I OWN YOU, I OWN YOU BOY! YOU GET UP WHEN I TELL YOU TO GET UP. GET UP! **** for it, same as their 3rd match, but below it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's actually not half bad for what it is, iirc. Only it isn't another match vs Henry so it's (N)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> It's actually not half bad for what it is, iirc. Only it isn't another match vs Henry so it's (N)


It doesn't lead to another match between them? THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT. I'm fucked off now. I have to witness Tommy Dreamer win the ECW title AND not even see another Henry/Bourne match to make me feel better?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Big Z said:


> Had a quick look at the next ep. Both sad and hilarious at the same time :lmao .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah XWT it got to 27.6% and stopped


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dreamer's title run wasn't bad imo. Enjoyed the matches with Finlay and Swagger, LOVED the Scramble @ The Bash '09.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I'm seeding now, but it doesn't seem to want to connect to anyone trying to download it lol. I'll leave it open and hope for the best.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

A Christian/Cesaro program would be stellar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> It doesn't lead to another match between them? THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT. I'm fucked off now. I have to witness Tommy Dreamer win the ECW title AND not even see another Henry/Bourne match to make me feel better?


In Two Weeks.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

A "Cesaro/Anybody somewhat decent" programme would be stellar. So far, he's feuded with Teddy Long, Santino, R-Truth and The Miz, with a sprinkle of Justin Gabriel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> In Two Weeks.


Oh thank fuck. I miss-read your post and thought you said there wasn't another match between them. I feel so much better now . Not enough to go watch that triple threat yet though. I shall return to my ECW 09 project tomorrow. I have a job to apply for!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5f6ft_ecw-13-05-08-kane-vs-john-morrison_sport#.UTOkZlcfOJk

GEM. Watch it. Like it. Love it. Kane is awesome. How can anybody hate the guy?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DAMN for DAT ECW GEM~. DAT VERTICAL SUPLEX. DAT SELLING. DAT PSYCHOLOGY. Also, Miz is way better as a manager than wrestler. ***1/2 for that match.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Return ratings:

Lesnar vs. Cena - ***3/4
Lesnar vs. HHH - *

Rock vs. Cena - ***1/4
Rock vs. Punk I - ***3/4
Rock vs. Punk II - ***

Jericho vs. Punk WM ****1/4
Jericho vs. Punk ER ****1/4
Jericho vs. Punk RAW 13 - ****


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This is one of my favorite sub-four minute matches ever, and it really gave me hope for a future Punk/Henry program. These two have really good chemistry with each other, and Punk really brought out the best in monster Henry.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

@Wrestlinfan35, you have Cena/Lesnar the same as Rock/Punk? Care to explain


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Return ratings:
> 
> Lesnar vs. Cena - ***3/4
> Lesnar vs. HHH - *
> ...


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I have my review for Punk/Rock in the old thread, can't be arsed to look for it.  But it did go down from **** because on a third watch the booking at the end of the match kind of pissed me off, as did Cole's commentating. Funny how much commentary can damage a match. But honestly even though they are the same rating, I give the slight edge to Rock/Punk mainly because I just thought it was a better executed match. At the time I wasn't too fussed about Lesnar's return, didn't care much about his character. Great return night, but that contract signing was ridiculous and fpalm-worthy. 

I thought Lesnar/Cena was way too slow and one-sided. People enjoy how brutal the match was, but really nothing sticks out to me other than the first 2 minutes of the match. Every time I try to watch it, I find myself dosing off because there's too much downtime with nothing really happening other than Lesnar fucking around with Cena. I thought they both played their roles great though and I enjoy Lesnar as a wrecking machine, but his matches are just too slow-paced for my liking. 

Neither match is really that terrific, honestly. Just very good. Jericho/Punk is where it's at. :mark:

Edit: Ugh, Triple H vs. Lesnar. Don't even get me started. What garbage.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


>


 I owe you a rep for that :lol


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I don't wanna live in a world where someone considers Punk/Rock just as good as Cena/Lesnar.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar/Cena = Great
Punk/Rock = Trash

I'm genuinely confused. In the "hmmm... that sheep looks rather good to old WOOLCOCK" kinda confused.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

-Mystery- said:


> I don't wanna live in a world where someone considers Punk/Rock just as good as Cena/Lesnar.


unk3

Not just "as good", though. Better. I should leave before I'm overwhelmingly attacked. :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't want to live in a world where one of the GOAT WWF/WWE matches gets compared to Rock-Punk or Rock-Cena in any way, shape, or form. It would be like somebody trying to tell me that the original HIAC is on par with the Cena/Orton HIAC.

I'm dead serious too :brock.

Punk/Rock I and II are Punk's worst PPV matches ever outside of maybe one or two others, while Brock/Cena is my fifth ranked WWF/WWE match in history and the second best match in 15 years.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Never understood this huge hype for Lesnar/Cena. I just can't. Top 5 of all time? It wasn't in my top 10 for the entire year of 2012. Opinions are like assholes I suppose.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed they are. To think people rate matches like Savage/Steamboat and Bret/Shawn *****....

New topic - greatest feuds of all time (and respective best match(es) w/stars)?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

It's uniquely brilliant. (Cena/Brock)


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I enjoyed Punk/Rock at RR, EC can fuck off though

As for Cena/Lesnar, the full 5* from me, so good, makes me hope for a title match between the two :mark:

GOAT'S GONNA GOAT :cena3


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Brock/Cena was an amazing match (still haven't watched it on TV yet) that I would say just may be Cena's best match ever and a Top 3 match for Brock. Don't know if I would go Top 5 in company history territory just yet.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Finlay vs Matt Hardy from 2007 iirc is another gem that should be viewed.


Oh look at this lad here after my own heart. 6/22/07 to be exact. People need to watch this and seemingly no matter how much I pimp it noboby gets on it. Heartless bastards the lot of you.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> BOOM. Watch this match, folks.


I remember watching that not long after you pimped it. Didn't write a review because i'mma crafty son of a bitch but I dug it and thought it was very good at worst. Good structure, great shine period, Mysterio FIP spell was super and they used Haas & Shelton very well given their lack of experience and not being great by that time. Good counters and tag team work from WGTT and a fun and well paced finishing stretch with a great nearfall.



Big Z said:


> Lesnar/Cena = Great
> Punk/Rock = Trash
> 
> I'm genuinely confused. In the "hmmm... that sheep looks rather good to old WOOLCOCK" kinda confused.


And I'm confused in the "hmm...Cal has a blog?" kinda confused  .

Erm, I'm gonna watch Morrison/Bourne from ECW that Cal pimped hard at some point tonight.

Also, its a new thread so I'm going to make a small request. Can we please cut the 'DAT' usage into not being included in seemingly every third post. Its gotten to the stage that 'GOAT' did in the Sport Section not too long ago. Irritating, stale, unfunny and just plain annoying.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I don't know how someone can watch Cena/Lesnar and not tell me it's one of the best matches of the last 10 years. The match is such a breath of fresh air, it's like nothing else we've seen over the last few years and that's what makes it so incredible.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> Indeed they are. To think people rate matches like Savage/Steamboat and Bret/Shawn *****....
> 
> New topic - greatest feuds of all time (and respective best match(es) w/stars)?




Austin/Rock WM 17 *****
HBK/Bret WM ****1/4
HHH/HBK summerslam 02 ****
Kane/Taker	WM 14 ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch it NOW Clique.

You'll be in here screaming like me about how it's one of the greatest matches ever very shortly. The only match of the last 15 years that I think is better would be streak vs career @ Wrestlemania XXVI.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'll eventually get the Extreme Rules DVD. This is actually the longest I've gone not purchasing the DVD of a show I attended.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lesnar/Cena was my MOTY worldwide for 2012, with only Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr 2/25 coming close. Sensational babyface performance from Cena, unique and harrowing beating from Lesnar, simple yet constantly building and evolving structure which created permeating tension and emotion, Cena timing his rare offence beautifullly, Lesnar's facial expressions subtley conveying fear and worry at just the right time and a genuinly conclusive and satisfying finish only let down by piss poor booking of Cena from the next night onwards.

Hard to say whether its better than Cena/Punk MITB '11. Just because of the different context in both matches and the way they were worked. Lesnar's best match and at worst top 2 for Cena imo.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

-Mystery- said:


> I don't know how someone can watch Cena/Lesnar and not tell me it's one of the best matches of the last 10 years. The match is such a breath of fresh air, it's like nothing else we've seen over the last few years and that's what makes it so incredible.


What makes it so unique and different, though? That's what I'm curious about, since I see that being said a lot about this match. Lesnar being a beast? I'm all for something unique, but this didn't do much for me. Call it what you want, it was a slow, dragged out match imo. It got absolutely no emotion out of me whatsoever. Other than the first couple of minutes, I wasn't invested at all. Just a bit bored.

Just too one-sided for my preference. If I want something that "OMG SO REALISTIC~" and dull, I'll watch some UFC. However that doesn't interest me much, either.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

If it speaks anything about Lesnar/Cena, it is currently my Match of the Decade, all promotions included, and we have had tons of good shit this decade


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK'S "Big Fight" style is perhaps my favorite ever. Seriously think he could go out there with anybody and make it watchable, even Rock or GOD FORBID Ryback.

BTW, just watched the Hell No/Ryback vs Shield match from TLC. Danielson makes me HARD :mark:.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I attended extreme rules. Was an awesome match Brock/Cena was. But the whole card was awesome. 

Kane/Orton good opener ***3/4

Bryan/sheamus ****

Punk/Jericho ****1/4

Brock/Cena ****1/4


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> What makes it so unique and different, though? That's what I'm curious about, since I see that being said a lot about this match. Lesnar being a beast? I'm all for something unique, but this didn't do much for me. Call it what you want, it was a slow, dragged out match imo. It got absolutely no emotion out of me whatsoever. Other than the first couple of minutes, I wasn't invested at all. Just a bit bored.
> 
> Just too one-sided for my preference. If I want something that "OMG SO REALISTIC~" and dull, I'll watch some UFC. However that doesn't interest me much, either.


I wrote a review for the match. If you give me a few mins, I'll find a link for you.

EDIT: 



> John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (4/29/2012)
> 
> "I'm not a superstar. I'm an ass kicker. I am Brock Lesnar."
> 
> ...


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

-Mystery- said:


> I wrote a review for the match. If you give me a few mins, I'll find a link for you.


Thanks, be interested to read it. 

Might be worth a note that I didn't catch the match live, but watched it the day after. Perhaps that's a big factor. Still pretty meh about it though, sorry.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

-Mystery- said:


> I don't know how someone can watch Cena/Lesnar and not tell me it's one of the best matches of the last 10 years. The match is such a breath of fresh air, *it's like nothing else we've seen over the last few years and that's what makes it so incredible.*


My thoughts exactly. Such a surreal match. Total barbarism that is just flat out shocking in today's climate. It's also captivating to watch and still gives me that, 'I can't believe this is actually happening,' feeling when I see it. Pretty much perfect if you ignore the winner, which I do otherwise I'd probably hate it lol. 

I'm with KOK in that Brock's current style of working a match is just completely mesmerizing to me. I love it. From the second I hear his music hit I'm hooked. His mannerisms, his athleticism, DAT AURA (sorry WOOLCOCK ). All of it, it's like nothing we've ever seen in WWE before and I'm a shameless mark for it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> I wrote a review for the match. If you give me a few mins, I'll find a link for you.
> 
> EDIT:


 Fantastic review. I knew I wasn't the only one who disliked the outcome/ending of the match. Other than that, great match!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Don't think Brock's style could work with everyone. He has the presence and aura to create an unnerving atmosphere but he's only as good as his opponent allows him to be. People like Ryback and Rock wouldn't be taking the frightening bumps and stiff offence Cena took, it would be closer to the HHH match where Brock had to work more methodical to make up for the fact HHH was never going to take the abuse Cena took in order to create the atmosphere and surreal environment of the ER match. There's always going to be an aura and sense of importance in Lesnar's matches, but he really needs a strong bumper and generally adaptable and sympathetic babyface worker to really elevate his style into the heights the Cena match had. Danielson would be perfect, someone like Orton wouldn't because he'd be forced to work softer given Orton's injuries and Orton's not good enough to compensate for a safer/methodical Lesnar.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Don't think Brock's style could work with everyone. He has the presence and aura to create an unnerving atmosphere but he's only as good as his opponent allows him to be. People like Ryback and Rock wouldn't be taking the frightening bumps and stiff offence Cena took, it would be closer to the HHH match where Brock had to work more methodical to make up for the fact HHH was never going to take the abuse Cena took in order to create the atmosphere and surreal environment of the ER match. There's always going to be an aura and sense of importance in Lesnar's matches, but he really needs a strong bumper and generally adaptable and sympathetic babyface worker to really elevate his style into the heights the Cena match had. Danielson would be perfect, someone like Orton wouldn't because he'd be forced to work softer given Orton's injuries and Orton's not good enough to compensate for a safer/methodical Lesnar.


LESNAR/SHOW

Show might not work as a sympathetic babyface, but goddamn, I wanna see those 2 just beat the fuck out of each other for 10 mins.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> LESNAR/SHOW


I'd be down for Lesnar/Henry and Lesnar/Show tbh. Danielson, Bourne and Punk would be great babyfaces for him to work against. People like Orton, Ryback and Rock would be forced to plug Lesnar into a slower and more common style that we saw against HHH. Bryan, Punk and Bourne for various reasons would work closer to Cena in terms of what they'd allow Lesnar to do and that adds to the mystique and tension in the match, which increases Lesnar's image and allows anyone he works against to look great by association and potentially get more over.

The HHH match had its moments of excellent work, but the overall pace and work was slow and plodding and lacked the tension and unpredictability that made Lesnar/Cena so engrossing.

Lesnar/Sheamus as well. Agreed Show wouldn't so much be a sympathetic babyface but he can compensate with the size and image to be seen as a contender and to trouble Lesnar. Sheamus likewise has the size and style to naturally play off of Lesnar and produce a violent spectacle.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> LESNAR/SHOW
> 
> Show might not work as a sympathetic babyface, but goddamn, I wanna see those 2 just beat the fuck out of each other for 10 mins.


Speaking of which...






or










YOU'RE WELCOME.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

God, imagine the kind of match they could build between Show and Lesnar with Show's WMD and Lesnar's reckless abandon :mark:

EDIT: Yeah, Lesnar and Show had some really good matches. Imagine a match in 2013, where I find Show to be ten fold a better worker than he was 10 years ago.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Sorry Sabin but this post HAS to be addressed.



HayleySabin said:


> Of course it doesn't. The match being bad makes it bad. And no Lesnar was not effected. Saying that is truly asinine. If it was effect then *and here is the MAJOR clincher, you ready?* BROCK WOULD HAVE SHOWN AN EFFECT. Amazing, right? Instead you're stuck bitching and moaning that John-boy "used two moves and it wasn't very realistic b/c in wrestling I've seen so much more happen." Get off that mindset b/c you know how many topics can be used under that mentality? About a million and a half. Whole story behind Brock vs Cena was legitimacy. What's more legitimate than a steel chain to the head causing it to bleed, following by a man's most impactful move on steel steps to seal the deal in the blink of an eye? Exactly. It does work. Your personal bias won't choose to believe it. That's all there is here.


Lesnar/Cena is a bad match. It doesn't matter how good the work rate or the storytelling in the match was, the ending was by far the stupidest booking decision in the past decade. And yeah, a great match CAN be ruined by a bad ending. Take any amazing match in history and think of a totally retarded ending for it, and then think of how much that would have taken away from it. That's what this match was.

And I am flabbergasted that you'd say Brock was unaffected by the loss to Cena. Remember how few people cared about his match at Summerslam with Brock? Completely due to the fact that Cena beat him. Where's the momentum behind Brock's character? Where's that extra special aura around him due to the fact that he'd never been beaten and was tearing through the top guy like air? Gone.

You're a competent wrestling fan, remember back in 2002 when Brock first debuted? When was his first real loss? Big Show at Survivor Series. Like...7 months into his run, and it took the biggest guy on the roster to take him down. Meantime, Brock had just dominated everybody-Hogan, Rock, the Hardy Boys, Hardcore Holly (who IIRC legit had his neck broken by Brock), etc. So he was this unstoppable beast. When he finally lost, it meant something.

What did Cena beating Brock accomplish? Absolutely NOTHING. Brock's momentum came to a screeching halt, Cena got a win that by the next night meant fuck all. Watch the Raw from April 30th, they mention Cena's win ONCE in passing, and Cena is off to battle Johnny Ace while Brock and Trips start their program. Brock's monster return was totally sabotaged to give another meaningless accomplishment to Cena.

This whole thing could have been booked so, so, so much more intelligently to truly maximize the potential drawing power and interest in Brock. That's what really pisses me off most. The fact that the loss was to Cena just adds the insult to injury.

Speaking of legitimacy, which you claim this feud was based on, when you really look at the feud, there was nothing "legitimate" about it. How many fights have you ever seen where one participant gets the unholy shit kicked out of them for 20 minutes and then wins after a punch and one move? If they wanted to be legitimate, one punch from Lesnar would knock Cena the fuck out. They had to tread a fine line that would keep kayfabe and still look legit, and I'm sorry, two moves to take out Brock after 20+ straight minutes of a beatdown...that is not legitimate. That screamed scripted ending, which destroyed any legitimacy the match had built up.



HayleySabin said:


> Sure they did. b/c Cena was injured and cut a promo saying he'll leave so things didn't actually work out? Get over that. It means nothing. He stayed after all. What was Cena supposed to do...never show up the next night b/c Brock beat him down so badly? Can't even believe the notion of "he no sold Brock's punishment" was uttered. That's insanity. John Cena wasn't even going to live b/c of Brock in kayfabe. The downward spiral angle was nothing more than to support the story of Cena heading into the match with Lesnar. He triumphed. He moved on. It's that simple. You're getting caught up in a plot you thought would have been better. It didn't happen so it leaves you sour to not see the preferred result. Don't know why the prospect of a character change would be in the cards as it is. It's from left field. Never hinted. Cena's character isn't even a character. It's just himself. Only thing that could illicit any change would be a heel turn.


Yes, John Cena wasn't going to live after this serious, devastating match...which is why he felt the need to get on the mic straight after, grin and make jokes, and the night after, go right back to comedy shit with Laurinaitis. 

Your words in your description highlight exactly what was wrong with the ending-"he triumphed. He moved on. It's that simple." It should NOT have been that simple. They finally had Cena in a position of weakness and had a chance to grow the character and have him change. Still keep him a face, but alter the act a little bit. Instead...next night, same old shit. It's as if the past 2 months hadn't even happened. All so he could keep face. That is shit, and a fundamental problem with the Cena character. 

And how can you say it was never hinted at? They had 3 weeks of Cena getting his ass kicked and even brought Edge back telling him YOU NEED TO WIN, while Cena was at this low, depressed point where he really questioned whether or not he could beat him. It'd been a long while since we'd seen Cena in such a position. Come April 30th...back to the usual crap.

Plus, taking the next night off to sell the injury...probably would have been a pretty good idea...infinitely preferential to the shit we got instead...



HayleySabin said:


> Nah, it wouldn't be impossible to start the HHH program with him winning. But that was the basis used so ergo: it worked. Can't fight the facts. That's how it played out. Which is all I stated. So considering the way they had things go, and for the 3rd or 4th time, yes things did come into place well.


Things did not come into place well...Just because it "played out" in a specific scenario and the WWE hobbled on without their fan base completely tuning out of the programming doesn't mean it was a success. When you think of the other potential scenarios of how it could have gone, and what booking possibilities is opened up for the future...this thing was a gigantic failure. 

I just don't understand the logic behind paying 5 million dollars to bring in a superstar from another organization just to book him to lose his first match. Its mind boggling. It would be like bringing in Goldberg to face Rock and just having Goldberg lose instead of building him up as a contender. In this case, the steam was gone almost before it even got started. What was the point? Wouldn't you, you know, try to get the most out of your investment? With the right booking they could have made this coming Wrestlemania possibly the most profitable in history, ratings could have gone up, who knows what kinds of great stuff. But instead, they fumbled it so the golden boy could get another useless moment in the sun, and have cost themselves a lot of money. They're idiots.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Great review. I will say I completely understand the reasons the lot of you have at calling it great. I personally just don't see it as something "jaw dropping." It didn't have me wondering to myself "shit this is crazy/awesome/omgwhat." It just had me watching, nothing more really. I wonder if you lot can understand my reasons, because it seems a lot of people are really holding on to this match as something remarkable and won't accept another opinion that isn't so. At the time, I wasn't invested in the characters of Brock Lesnar or John Cena, I wasn't invested in the feud, and the match didn't get the job done in getting me invested. They did what they did well, not faulting them, great performers, but it wasn't for me. You mention a lot, *Mystery*, that it's Lesnar the fighter, not Lesnar the wrestler, and that's cool and all. Like I said, if I wanted to watch a beating like that, I'd go elsewhere. But that's not my cup of tea. 

And as far as the ending goes, it didn't make much sense to me. The one moment where the match finally felt like a pro-WRASSLIN' match, and it was stupid aha. Lesnar goes ham on Cena for what, 20 minutes, and a shot with a chain and an AA on the steps does the trick? All that did was make the match go down a few more notches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Id rather see lesnar/kane. They've NEVER had a match with each other


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> God, imagine the kind of match they could build between Show and Lesnar with Show's WMD and Lesnar's reckless abandon :mark:


Lesnar throwing Show recklessly about would be a hell of a image. Ideal scenario for me would be to do away with the face/heel dynamic and just let them work. Something like Show being a tweener/non clear cut face and just have it be two big guys with a thirst for violence going to war to see who's the man and who's the bitch. Face Show wouldn't work for me and Lesnar going face wouldn't be as good. Just have Lesnar go on a rampage and have Show be someone who challenges him whilst doing it purely for himself. A rare example where heel/heel could work because of the two men involved and their presence and image.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I honestly don't think half the shit in the Lesnar/Cena match was even planned to happen. I get a total unhinged vibe from this match, like it wasn't even a match, it was just something else. Cena getting busted open in the first minute, the refs trying to stop the bleeding, Lesnar being a complete nut case and that ridiculous dive. It's just crazy stuff. Even if Lesnar had a guy willing to take crazy bumps for him, I don't think anything can ever touch Lesnar/Cena because it was Brock's first match back, they clearly had no limitations and the entire atmosphere of it all is so unique and defined. We'll never get that first time feeling again which is what makes it such a fantastic match and truly one of a kind imo.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Lesnar/Cena was my MOTY worldwide for 2012, with only Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Del Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr 2/25 coming close. Sensational babyface performance from Cena, unique and harrowing beating from Lesnar, simple yet constantly building and evolving structure which created permeating tension and emotion, Cena timing his rare offence beautifullly, Lesnar's facial expressions subtley conveying fear and worry at just the right time and a genuinly conclusive and satisfying finish only let down by piss poor booking of Cena from the next night onwards.
> 
> Hard to say whether its better than Cena/Punk MITB '11. Just because of the different context in both matches and the way they were worked. Lesnar's best match and at worst top 2 for Cena imo.


Somebody not watch Tanahashi vs Suzuki?

Did you actually call the finish genuinely conclusive and SATISFYING? That was the least satisfying finish I've personally ever seen.

I'd say Punk/Cena as better just because Punk's shoot and character of that summer got me back into wrestling at the time. When I actually watched the MiTB match...wasn't even that impressed with that. I can't stand it when people call that match so awesome and captivating and whatnot-it was literally a great crowd reaction and an interesting angle they had going in. The match itself was NOTHING special, and we got an overbooked finish. And yet still, it wasn't as bad as Lesnar/Cena-that's how much I fucking despise how that match finished.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Lesnar/Cena is a bad match. It doesn't matter how good the work rate or the storytelling in the match was, the ending was by far the stupidest booking decision in the past decade.


Only quoting this aspect of your post because I don't care to debate the rest because I know you place a greater amount of stock in booking and storylines in the context of a match and I'm really not going to get into discussing that since I'm the complete opposite.

The part I quoted is nonsense though. A bad finish may lessen a match and stop it being complete and perfect, but it doesn't take away from great selling, great pacing, great babyface and heel work and an overall well structured and brilliant match. The finish may not be as perfect or satisfactory but to suggest it automatically becomes an outright bad match, where all the positive aspects of the match are completely deemed irrelevant and no longer a positive is asinine reasoning for me. That makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Somebody not watch Tanahashi vs Suzuki?
> 
> Did you actually call the finish genuinely conclusive and SATISFYING? That was the least satisfying finish I've personally ever seen.
> 
> I'd say Punk/Cena as better just because Punk's shoot and character of that summer got me back into wrestling at the time. When I actually watched the MiTB match...wasn't even that impressed with that. I can't stand it when people call that match so awesome and captivating and whatnot-it was literally a great crowd reaction and an interesting angle they had going in. The match itself was NOTHING special, and we got an overbooked finish. And yet still, it wasn't as bad as Lesnar/Cena-that's how much I fucking despise how that match finished.


Yeah, watched it. At this point subjectivity should be on your radar. What works for you may not work for me. Suzuki was pretty great and it was probably his career performance. Tanahashi doesn't interest me and I find him largely dull and uninteresting. The match was very good, but not a MOTYC to me. If I want New Japan heavyweight classics I'll watch Hashimoto and the 80s-90s style, since I prefer the more violent and physical encounters they produced.

I would have preferred Lesnar to go over if truth be told. I meant the finish was satisfying in the kayfabe contest of the babyface being beaten from pillar to post for 20 minutes and managing to overcome a legitimate monster. In that sense it was perfect. Poorly timed imo and would have made a great way to end Lesnar's final match in this run, but from the worked context of a babyface comeback and putting away the seemingly unstoppable monster it was perfect.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I honestly don't think half the shit in the Lesnar/Cena match was even planned to happen. I get a total unhinged vibe from this match, like it wasn't even a match, it was just something else. Cena getting busted open in the first minute, the refs trying to stop the bleeding, Lesnar being a complete nut case and that ridiculous dive. It's just crazy stuff. Even if Lesnar had a guy willing to take crazy bumps for him, I don't think anything can ever touch Lesnar/Cena *because it was Brock's first match back*, they clearly had no limitations and the entire atmosphere of it all is so unique and defined. We'll never get that first time feeling again which is what makes it such a fantastic match and truly one of a kind imo.


Where he was promptly ruined...

Seriously, a Cena/Brock encounter couldn't have waited? If this same match happened at...say, ER this year, I think it would pretty unanimously be considered a great match. Its the fact that the booking that took place actually took place at literally the worst possible time that makes it so appalling, and in my opinion, inexcusable. From a company of so called 'professionals', I don't expect such bush league booking.

I fully believe that that's why Rock went over at Mania. "Well Cena is gonna look weak, but we're bringing in Brock so Cena can regain his momentum by beating him." Gee...way to use that 5 million dollar investment to max potential. Punk was right, no wonder Vince is only a millionaire when he green lights such asinine decisions.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The finish is total balls but I can overlook it because the rest of it was _so _good. I just stop the match when Cena goes for the pin and pretend it never happened, perfectly happy to live in delusion. 

:cena2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> If this same match happened at...say, ER this year, I think it would pretty unanimously be considered a great match. Its the fact that the booking that took place actually took place at literally the worst possible time that makes it so appalling, and in my opinion, inexcusable.


This again makes no sense to me. You're saying that the match itself was great, in so far if it were to take place this year where Lesnar would finally lose, rather than lose his first match back. I get you think they wasted him that night and to me Lesnar should have gone over, but this thinking that an admittedly 'great match' to you this year is now a bad and shit match because of the timing where it took place just boggles my mind.

Fair enough you didn't want Cena going over until Lesnar had sufficiently dominated enough to drop a match and have it feel like a defining moment. Its just how you can dismiss the work in the match as shit when you admit in another time it would be great that I can't comprehend. A bad match is a bad match because the ringwork wasn't good. It doesn't become better if it took place a year later if they work the same match. Because the things that made it bad then would still be apparent and thus it can't improve upon itself.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah, watched it. At this point subjectivity should be on your radar. What works for you may not work for me. Suzuki was pretty great and it was probably his career performance. Tanahashi doesn't interest me and I find him largely dull and uninteresting. The match was very good, but not a MOTYC to me. If I want New Japan heavyweight classics I'll watch Hashimoto and the 80s-90s style, since I prefer the more violent and physical encounters they produced.
> 
> I would have preferred Lesnar to go over if truth be told. I meant the finish was satisfying in the kayfabe contest of the babyface being beaten from pillar to post for 20 minutes and managing to overcome a legitimate monster. In that sense it was perfect. Poorly timed imo and would have made a great way to end Lesnar's final match in this run, but from the worked context of a babyface comeback and putting away the seemingly unstoppable monster it was perfect.


Hmm...alright.

I just...thinking of that match still gets me steamed. I know that others may find it great and I respect that you defend your beliefs, unlike others who just say random things without anything to back it up, but...god damn did I hate the ending to that match. It was so easy to book, in my mind, and could have led to such great television, feuds and angles, potentially, and instead it was totally fucked up to put over the one guy on the roster who didn't need any more glory, and in the end meant nothing to him. Those are the two reasons I hate the match-it ruined a sea of possibilities in favor of just continuing on with their regular lame, pointless garbage instead of putting in some effort for a more interesting product, and it all served to make Cena look good when he's the last person who needs it (once more, WWE pushing their pro Cena agenda despite how about 25% of the audience actually wants to see it).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I hate the finish too. Detest it actually but that doesn't take away the fact that everything up to that point was flawless. Even Cena coming to the ring with a chain and that vulnerable look on his face. It was brilliant. We've never seen Cena like that before, where he was questioning himself and it was compelling to watch. Then they went and ruined it all in one night. The frustration is understandable and shared on my part. I agree with WOOLCOCK though that it shouldn't take away from the rest of it. That's just me though. I love it so much I'm willing to overlook the ending.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Hmm...alright.
> 
> I just...thinking of that match still gets me steamed. I know that others may find it great and I respect that you defend your beliefs, unlike others who just say random things without anything to back it up, but...god damn did I hate the ending to that match. It was so easy to book, in my mind, and could have led to such great television, feuds and angles, potentially, and instead it was totally fucked up to put over the one guy on the roster who didn't need any more glory, and in the end meant nothing to him. Those are the two reasons I hate the match-it ruined a sea of possibilities in favor of just continuing on with their regular lame, pointless garbage instead of putting in some effort for a more interesting product, and it all served to make Cena look good when he's the last person who needs it (once more, WWE pushing their pro Cena agenda despite how about 25% of the audience actually wants to see it).


No doubt to me they wasted a great opportunity to develop Cena and make him appear broken and then do this 'redemption' storyline which so far makes no sense since despite losing numerous big matches last year he still won Superstars of the Year and hasn't changed.

I think we just look at matches from different angles. I'm not defending the finish leaving a sour note in anyone's mouth. But to me, I would only call a prior bad match 'good' if I rewatched it and managed to see things differently this time and noticed things I hadn't the first time. I think you just calling it a bad match and then later saying the same match being done a year later would have made it great just threw me off a bit. I get that legacy, impact and overall potential can help make a match a classic to some, but for me if the work prior to a finish is great then a bad finish will only stop the match being perfect.

Cena/Umaga is a great example. Horrendously retarded finish with Armando ignoring the wrench and just proceeding to weaken the ropes as the transition to Cena choking Umaga out, but the work beforehand was stellar and so whilst I freely admit to the finish being poor...I wouldn't call it a bad match and still love 95% of the match. Only way I'll ever consider it bad is if on a rewatch the rest of the match feels poorer and not as good.

Tbh I think we just need to accept its horses for courses as they say here in the UK. Different tastes and perspectives won't see us on the same page.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> The finish is total balls but I can overlook it because the rest of it was _so _good. I just stop the match when Cena goes for the pin and pretend it never happened, perfectly happy to live in delusion.
> 
> :cena2


Yeah ignorance is bliss, think that my mindset last time i watched it lol


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Lasnar/Cena ***3/4

Very good match, but not great. And I'm not even talking about the ending.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Here's the thing, Lesnar wrestled TWICE in 2012 so was it really a big deal if he lost to Cena? You'd have a point about building to some huge Cena/Lesnar blow-off if Lesnar was working double or even triple the PPV matches he actually did. I mean, how big is a hypothetical Cena/Lesnar match this year at Extreme Rules if Lesnar is only coming off THREE PPV wins? Not so much the 'path of destruction' needed for such a blow-off.

And if we're being real here, losses don't phase Lesnar in any way. He's a very, very rare exception.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The Lesnar V Cena match is just a typical Cena Vs Monster match (Cena selling for 95% of it and then doing his superman routine and winning with only two/three moves at the very end) with a few stiff shots thrown in their + great crowd.

Its still a very good match but its very overrated **** tops.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Come on guys, Cena is brilliant, he is going to make Rock go back to Hollywood after WM 29. Lesnar/Cena ****1/4 from me


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I can see people wanting Lesnar to win and then book a blowoff match, but tbh the match we got was sensational and that's all I really care for these days. Things could have been so much different and who knows where we'd be if Cena had lost and they committed to stripping him down to the bare minimum before rebuilding him and having him eventually win the title. The match was excellent and was something we're not used to seeing in WWE. It felt like a territories match with how raw and rugged it was, compared to a typical WWE match which places the brunt of the work in looking violent without really committing to the reckless and dangerous work we saw in Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I would have rather Lesnar won, but booking doesn't influences how I see a match at all, if that were the case then I would have Rock-Cena as a DUD instead of the pretty good rating I have it out now, and I would have invented a new rating system to dive into how bad Rock-Punk were.

Thinking about it, in the terms of context within the match it makes a ton of sense to have Cena win ; however the long term booking of Cena have rendered that match entirely pointless. I honestly believe that after reading Lesnar's book, that he gave Cena the win just to put over the top spot in the company that HE LEFT BEHIND. Giving back at it's finest, now we're looking towards a big two year plan with a list of Lesnar matches that NEED to happen.

OH, I know this wasn't in order with my BROCK project, but I watched this yesterday and wrote a little review up for it.

Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 12/4/03)

I’ve heard so much about this match, and now we’re here….. Benoit vs Lesnar, what should have arguably main evented a few PPVs… Instead we have to settle this on a normal episode of Smackdown, YAY ? …. So basically the story here is that Lesnar claims he isn’t going to be finished with Benoit until Benoit taps out, and since Benoit earned this title shot earlier in the night BROCK comes out of the gate like he’s attacking his wounded prey, terrorizing Benoit with an array of technical attacks. Benoit, ever the psychologist begins the work on Brock’s shoulder in order to set BROCK up for the crossface. He almost locks it in at a few points but Lesnar is having none of it and uses his elite strength to escape danger as much as possible. They go to the outside of the ring and begin beating each other down some more, with Lesnar thirsty for blood and Benoit looking to soften Lesnar up, they continue brawling back into the ring where they start suplexing the hell out of each other.

AHHHH Benoit has some vicious mother fucking chops. Benoit taking the advantage here and taking it to Lesnar it general gains a ton of momentum and even hits the diving headbutt, however before he gets the lock in the crossface we get a referee bump and Lesnar taps. Of course this pisses Benoit off so Lesnar hits the F-5 and goes for the cover, and here’s why this little action is so significant ; Brock said he was going to make Benoit TAP, and by going for the cover Brock is essentially telling the whole world that he’s afraid of Benoit. Benoit kicks out of the F-5 which is something that barely anybody has done at this point, but BROCK locks in the BROCK LOCK which Benoit passes out in. Post-match, Lesnar taunts Benoit’s unconscious body saying that Benoit tapped out to the pressure.

This match showed the world that Chris Benoit was overdue for the main event. What a fucking match these two put on ; it had excellent pacing and timing, the psychology by Benoit working on the shoulder for the crossface and picking his spots were incredible, Brock’s selling was incredible, and the story and character cues were all included in their complete and utter glory. I fucking despise that this match will be lost in the shuffle as it is definitely an all time TV classic between perhaps the greatest ever and BROCK FUCKING LESNAR. Download the episode of Smackdown it was on and watch it now, you’ll be watching art in motion.

***** 1/4* ​


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

-Mystery- said:


> Here's the thing, Lesnar wrestled TWICE in 2012 so was it really a big deal if he lost to Cena? You'd have a point about building to some huge Cena/Lesnar blow-off if Lesnar was working double or even triple the PPV matches he actually did. I mean, how big is a hypothetical Cena/Lesnar match this year at Extreme Rules if Lesnar is only coming off THREE PPV wins? Not so much the 'path of destruction' needed for such a blow-off.
> 
> And if we're being real here, losses don't phase Lesnar in any way. He's a very, very rare exception.


I will say this I thought what Cena did at the end of that match was very unprofessional and was worse then beating Lesnar. I still don't know why he cut that promo.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> This again makes no sense to me. You're saying that the match itself was great, in so far if it were to take place this year where Lesnar would finally lose, rather than lose his first match back. I get you think they wasted him that night and to me Lesnar should have gone over, but this thinking that an admittedly 'great match' to you this year is now a bad and shit match because of the timing where it took place just boggles my mind.
> 
> Fair enough you didn't want Cena going over until Lesnar had sufficiently dominated enough to drop a match and have it feel like a defining moment. Its just how you can dismiss the work in the match as shit when you admit in another time it would be great that I can't comprehend. A bad match is a bad match because the ringwork wasn't good. It doesn't become better if it took place a year later if they work the same match. Because the things that made it bad then would still be apparent and thus it can't improve upon itself.


The match itself was solidly worked. I won't lie. However, the finish is a giant part of the match, possibly even the most important part because that's the lasting impression the fans are left with. That part of the match was inexcusable. In my mind, it completely ruined every little bit of good they might have done. 

I don't dismiss the work in the match as being shit, I can fully admit that both guys worked hard. As an overall match, however, it gets a failing grade. There's much more to a match than just ring work. Storytelling, the feud itself, angles, selling, all of it. A bad match is not just a bad match because the ringwork wasn't good. The ringwork could be perfect but a ton of other things could be absolute crap. This is a problem that some have with RoH and matches like Elgin vs Richards. They feel that the build up to spots is bad and it only expresses the mentality "hey mom, look how many wild and crazy moves I can do." They aren't knocking the in ring work, that aspect is fine, even great. Its just that the storytelling, flow and build up to spots they really dislike. (I am not one of these fans, but I've seen this argument several times on this forum). 

I also disagree when you say "It doesn't become better if it took place a year later if they work the same match. Because the things that made it bad then would still be apparent and thus it can't improve upon itself." There is one thing that could vastly be improved on had the match taken place a year later-timing. If Brock had a few matches under his belt, been built up to look like a legit monster over the course of 12 months and had some decisive wins in feuds, then when he faced Cena, people probably wouldn't have had as much of a problem. As it is, this bullshit loss was Brock's FIRST MATCH back in 8 years, and that's how he gets booked-to lose (in 2 moves, no less). The timing was terrible because Brock had just returned. Postpone that match a year when Brock has been around for a while, then the impact of a Brock loss being so devastating to his momentum is softened quite a bit. Fans have seen for a year what a monster he is, instead of 20 minutes and 2 Raw segments. Quite a difference.

As I said before, I have only 2 main problems with the match, but they are very significant ones. It messed up the potential for the future of the year by having Brock lose and then continuing on the path of crap. To think of all the interesting things that COULD have come out of a Brock win, and comparing it to what we got...sad. Second problem-for Cena, it was just another win, and it served no reason for him. Even the next night on Raw they mentioned the match once. Compare that to how much it would have helped Brock to win, and then look back at what we got...again, sad.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Great review KOK, top match. Like you said - should have main evented a few PPVs.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know.... I thought that cutting the promo after the match made it feel as if it was the biggest win of Cena's career, it's just the fact that he showed up and main evented the next few PPVs that pissed me off.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Wait, KO Bossy, are you trying to say Lesnar's run would've been completely different if he wins? Nah.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> The Lesnar V Cena match is just a typical Cena Vs Monster match (Cena selling for 95% of it and then doing his superman routine and winning with only two/three moves at the very end) with a few stiff shots thrown in their + great crowd.
> 
> Its still a very good match but its very overrated **** tops.


That's an incredibly naive outlook on the match. Firstly Cena's selling was amongst the best he's ever done in terms of making himself look vulnerable and helpless. You can't compare that sort of environment and beating to something like Cena/Miz or a typical Raw match. When Cena's matches are lazily put together, especially more common on TV his comeback can be pretty dire and lacking in any real achievement. Matches like Cena/Umaga and Cena/Lesnar differ because they really commit to making Cena look helpless and overwhelmed and they make how he builds to his comeback the magnus opus of the match.

His timing on the Backlund deadlift counter to the Kimura and on the chain shot were sensational and if anything his comeback was very un Cena like. There was no control or precision in it, it was opportunistic and quick rather than a drawn out comeback with Lesnar bumping for numerous offence. It was done in the most believable fashion to render Lesnar loopy and momentarily out of it.

It was the best way to structure the Cena formula. To compare it to a standard TV/PPV match without taking into account Lesnar and the entire atmosphere the match was built around is just naive.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That's the thing about Cena/Lesnar, it's not 'just a typical underdog v monster' match. They employ that dynamic but the performances of both men and the uniqueness of the match took it above and beyond any match WWE has ever done in that style. Intangibles, that's what it's all about.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Cena promo afterwards was :lmao and just amplifies why I hated the finish so much. God damn the Cena character can be such a fucking pompous jackass at times. This was most definitely one of them.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> That's the thing about Cena/Lesnar, it's not 'just a typical underdog v monster' match. They employ that dynamic but the performances of both men and the uniqueness of the match took it above and beyond any match WWE has ever done in that style. Intangibles, that's what it's all about.


Exactly. Lesnar puts in a violent performance unseen in WWE for years and even defying the brutality we were treated to in the Benoit/Regal/Finlay series of matches. People have to separate the atmosphere and work in this match from something like Cena/Miz which was lazy, plodding and a good example of how the Cena formula can really negatively impact a match when the heel isn't compelling and the match lacks any real pace or build to the Cena comeback.

Cena/Lesnar was all about separating this match from the default Cena match in terms of the offence and work by both men. The only thing resembling familiarity was that Cena was working from the bottom for nearly the entire match. Lesnar's work was something people hadn't been exposed to, Cena was put in a pure underdog position that makes his matches more compelling and greater than when they work a basic match in the Cena formula and don't execute it anywhere near as well and the entire match was executed to envoke a real sense of violence and brutality in a manner that defied how WWE usually books matches of that nature.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Here's the thing, Lesnar wrestled TWICE in 2012 so was it really a big deal if he lost to Cena? You'd have a point about building to some huge Cena/Lesnar blow-off if Lesnar was working double or even triple the PPV matches he actually did. I mean, how big is a hypothetical Cena/Lesnar match this year at Extreme Rules if Lesnar is only coming off THREE PPV wins? Not so much the 'path of destruction' needed for such a blow-off.
> 
> And if we're being real here, losses don't phase Lesnar in any way. He's a very, very rare exception.


I think losses phase Lesnar...how else do you explain the zero momentum he and Hunter had going into Summerslam? I mean, fuck, they poured a ton into that feud-bringing in Heyman, Heyman/Stephanie confrontation, annihilating Shawn...still couldn't get people to care. I fully believe its because he lost to Cena. Brock just didn't feel like a big deal anymore.

And I disagree-I think that with 3 PPV wins there could at least have been a decent amount of momentum. Again, this isn't just PPV match wins-we're talking all of the segments where he destroys guys on Raw as well. Sure it would only be 3 wins but there are ways you can maximize that to make it seem like a lot more, and really amp up just how devastating Brock is. Picture this:

-Brock returns on Raw in 2012, destroys...let's say Orton, just as an example
-Next week, he and Orton fight and he bloodies Orton's mouth
-At ER, he and Orton fight and he just decimates Randy
-Summerslam time-he fights fuck, I dunno...Jericho
-Night after SS, he breaks Jericho's arm, just taking out the top guys
-Jericho returns in July, at Summerslam they fight, Jericho gets destroyed
-Wrestlemania 29-fights Hunter, destroys him, breaks his arm
-Summerslam 2013-fights Cena, finally takes a loss, and still destroys Cena

This wouldn't have worked? Hell, Sheamus had lost the title in October, why not have him and Brock fight at Survivor Series, continue taking out top babyfaces? Brock just need some higher up guys to go through, and its not like they've done anything useful with Orton in 2012, Jericho was leaving right after Summerslam so why not have him put Lesnar over, Sheamus had lost the title by November, and yes, you are destroying top faces, but considering that Jericho is a legend, Orton is permanently over no matter what shit they put him through and Sheamus was coming off of a 6 months WHC reign and was booked like a monster face, I don't them losing really any steam. Plus, you're building up to something where the payoff, depending on the match quality and public interest, could have been well worth it.

And shit, imagine if he beat Cena at Summerslam 2013 and kept riding the wave until he finally faced Taker at WM30? Can you imagine the interest that'd have? The undefeated Wrestlemania streak vs the guy who hasn't lost a match since his return and has steamrolled every top guy in the company...might feel like the streak is in real jeopardy and would cause a massive bump in buys were it to possibly main event (And you can't deny the interest it'd have).

Instead...all these possibilities were ruined in match 1.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Wait, KO Bossy, are you trying to say Lesnar's run would've been completely different if he wins? Nah.


If he would have won and been booked by someone who had a fucking clue...yeah. Look at my post above.

At least he'd have had some momentum...maybe not completely different but at the very least there'd be more interest and the idea that they MIGHT be building to something.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

People didn't care? Lesnar didn't feel like a big deal? How do you explain the Summerslam buyrate then?

Losses don't hurt Lesnar because he's a fucking Terminator. Even in the UFC, losses didn't hurt him.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Don't care for Cena either but I'll be glad when he takes the belt from Rock at Mania. He'll probably get a long reign too which I won't love character wise but hopefully he can put together something similar to his '07 run. Cena/Punk is bound to happen on PPV this year, that's always money. Henry could have a good match/series with him. Maybe build up Cesaro as a challenger for one of the lesser PPVs.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

KO Bossy said:


> If he would have won and been booked by someone who had a fucking clue...yeah. Look at my post above.
> 
> At least he'd have had some momentum...maybe not completely different but at the very least there'd be more interest and the idea that they MIGHT be building to something.


Well, winning and being booked correctly aren't one in the same. Lesnar can still lose the match and be booked in a manner that you pose, and that loss ends up being irrelevant.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> That's the thing about Cena/Lesnar, it's not 'just a typical underdog v monster' match. They employ that dynamic but the performances of both men and the uniqueness of the match took it above and beyond any match WWE has ever done in that style. Intangibles, that's what it's all about.


Yeah and then in the end, it meant nothing. There was no fallout, it was barely mentioned the next night and Cena hasn't talked about it in any promos since. Everyone in kayfabe acts like it didn't happen.

So...despite how the match was worked, which I'm not knocking, it was crap. Again, that fucking finish crushed a ton of positive possibilities so we could get more Cena comedy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm totally fine with Cena becoming champion again. It's been so long now I'm actually looking forward to it in some ways. Cena/Seamus and Cena/Bryan would more than hold my interest.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KO Bossy said:


> So...despite how the match was worked, which I'm not knocking, it was crap. Again, that fucking finish crushed a ton of positive possibilities so we could get more Cena comedy.


 "Baloney, fudge and mustard!" :cena4

I'm actually one of the few people on here that wants Cena to beat Rock at WM29. Two years without the title is a long time. Whoever beats Cena for the title will be a big moment for them. I wonder what's left in the Cena character after WM though. People have suggested that this is his last 'great' year and after this, he will turn heel, turn face again and then retire. I doubt it but one can hope


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Don't care for Cena either but I'll be glad when he takes the belt from Rock at Mania. He'll probably get a long reign too which I won't love character wise but hopefully he can put together something similar to his '07 run. Cena/Punk is bound to happen on PPV this year, that's always money. Henry could have a good match/series with him. Maybe build up Cesaro as a challenger for one of the lesser PPVs.


I can't see Cena having another 07 like run with the WWE Championship. He even more watered down then he was then meaning you really have to piss him off to get something very good out of him.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KO Bossy said:


> Yeah and then in the end, it meant nothing. There was no fallout, it was barely mentioned the next night and Cena hasn't talked about it in any promos since. Everyone in kayfabe acts like it didn't happen.
> 
> So...despite how the match was worked, which I'm not knocking, it was crap. Again, that fucking finish crushed a ton of positive possibilities so we could get more Cena comedy.


What does the fallout have to do with the match itself? As a standalone match it's amazing.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Honestly, there's just as much money to be had in a Cena/Lesnar II even with Cena winning the first match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Don't care for Cena either but I'll be glad when he takes the belt from Rock at Mania. He'll probably get a long reign too which I won't love character wise but hopefully he can put together something similar to his '07 run. Cena/Punk is bound to happen on PPV this year, that's always money. Henry could have a good match/series with him. Maybe build up Cesaro as a challenger for one of the lesser PPVs.


Cena/Sheamus, Cena/Henry, Cena/Punk (maybe after Summerslam depending on the length of Cena's reign), Cena/Bryan, a TV defence against someone like Cesaro if they don't want to do a PPV program could all work. Cena/Punk could be built around Cena never beating Punk in a title match and Punk arguing Cena only just beat him in a big match with a fluke, but in title matches Punk is 5-0 against him in singles/triple threat matches. Cena/Sheamus can be the '13 version of Cena/Lashley, Cena/Henry just needs to happen because you're pitting the best monster heel on the roster full time against one of if not the best babyface worker going today (Bryan being limited by the comedy and Mysterio breaking down).

The character will largely be infuriating but there's enough potential to work some intriguing defences and make the title important in the main event before they progress to him dropping the belt and whatever his plans will be for Wrestlemania. Hopefully if The Shield become the featured act they can give Cena a long enough reign without him being the centrepiece of the show and allow people to focus more on The Shield.

Cena/Rollins on PPV would be great if they want to tease Rollins going face in the Road to Wrestlemania and have him vs Ambrose be a featured match.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cena/Sheamus, Cena/Henry, Cena/Punk (maybe after Summerslam depending on the length of Cena's reign), Cena/Bryan, a TV defence against someone like Cesaro if they don't want to do a PPV program could all work. Cena/Punk could be built around Cena never beating Punk in a title match and Punk arguing Cena only just beat him in a big match with a fluke, but in title matches Punk is 5-0 against him in singles/triple threat matches. Cena/Sheamus can be the '13 version of Cena/Lashley, Cena/Henry just needs to happen because you're pitting the best monster heel on the roster full time against one of if not the best babyface worker going today (Bryan being limited by the comedy and Mysterio breaking down).
> 
> The character will largely be infuriating but there's enough potential to work some intriguing defences and make the title important in the main event before they progress to him dropping the belt and whatever his plans will be for Wrestlemania. Hopefully if The Shield become the featured act they can give Cena a long enough reign without him being the centrepiece of the show and allow people to focus more on The Shield.
> 
> Cena/Rollins on PPV would be great if they want to tease Rollins going face in the Road to Wrestlemania and have him vs Ambrose be a featured match.


The only two things Cena can do as Champion that might be good is him finally putting CM Punk behind him and a feud with Mark Henry. Otherwise I really don't see anything else of importance happening with Cena during this run as WWE Champion.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> People didn't care? Lesnar didn't feel like a big deal? How do you explain the Summerslam buyrate then?
> 
> Losses don't hurt Lesnar because he's a fucking Terminator. Even in the UFC, losses didn't hurt him.


Because its Summerslam and it draws well every year...2011 only failed because they announced zero matches aside from the main event ahead of time.

Look at the breakdown:

Summerslam 2008-477,000 buys, main event(s)-Taker/Edge HIAC, Batista vs Cena
Summerslam 2009-369,000 buys, main event(s)-Punk/Hardy TLC, Orton vs Cena
Summerslam 2010-350,000 buys, main event(s)-Nexus vs Team WWE
Summerslam 2011-269,000 buys, main event(s)-Cena/Punk MiTB Rematch
Summerslam 2012-358,000 buys, main event(s)-Cena/Punk/Show WWE Title, *Brock vs Hunter*

Summerslam the event itself is a draw. All the past years when Brock wasn't on and it still drew extremely well. Plus, I can only guess on this part, but how do we know the buyrate wouldn't have been higher is Brock had won and still had momentum? We don't.

Losses in the UFC don't hurt Lesnar, yeah. That's because Dana White knows what he's doing and capitalized on the situation by taking the Lesnar fanbase and making them UFC fans. Brilliant.

Vince McMahon, on the other hand, has Brock scripted to lose his first match as a way of thumbing his nose at MMA. Vince, thusly, will lose out on money because he's a jealous, bitter prick.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cena/Sheamus, Cena/Henry, Cena/Punk (maybe after Summerslam depending on the length of Cena's reign), Cena/Bryan, a TV defence against someone like Cesaro if they don't want to do a PPV program could all work. Cena/Punk could be built around Cena never beating Punk in a title match and Punk arguing Cena only just beat him in a big match with a fluke, but in title matches Punk is 5-0 against him in singles/triple threat matches. Cena/Sheamus can be the '13 version of Cena/Lashley, Cena/Henry just needs to happen because you're pitting the best monster heel on the roster full time against one of if not the best babyface worker going today (Bryan being limited by the comedy and Mysterio breaking down).
> 
> The character will largely be infuriating but there's enough potential to work some intriguing defences and make the title important in the main event before they progress to him dropping the belt and whatever his plans will be for Wrestlemania. Hopefully if The Shield become the featured act they can give Cena a long enough reign without him being the centrepiece of the show and allow people to focus more on The Shield.
> 
> Cena/Rollins on PPV would be great if they want to tease Rollins going face in the Road to Wrestlemania and have him vs Ambrose be a featured match.


(Y)

Still want to see Del Rio/Henry for the WHC as well.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Oh god imagine if Brock made Cena tap out at Extreme Rules. That would have been an awesome finish.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Hardcore Show said:


> The only two things Cena can do as Champion that might be good is him finally putting CM Punk behind him and a feud with Mark Henry. Otherwise I really don't see anything else of importance happening with Cena during this run as WWE Champion.


It'll be dire in terms of his promos and character, but like him or hate him Cena as champion adds intrigue into a match. People like Punk and Bryan will create great atmospheres with them representing the type of worker the adult crowd worship and any match will more than likely be very good at worst. Cena/Henry would do well to not succeed. Both guys are great at their respective elements to make any match work and Henry could easily be a credible threat to Cena's reign.

Tbh I see it more as a chance for Cena to work some fresh and interesting programs and potentially work some very good matches if they put him with the right people. Cena working the HHH '08 reign on Smackdown where they try and elevate people by making Cena look dominant but book the matches well enough for the likes of Henry, Punk and maybe even Bryan to look great in defeat.



Saint Dick said:


> (Y)
> 
> Still want to see Del Rio/Henry for the WHC as well.


If the Swagger program ends at Mania I see no reason they couldn't have Henry work a brief program with Del Rio before transitioning to Raw around the Summer time and maybe even have him challenge at Summerslam. I recall rumours that Lesnar and Rock might be working Summerslam in which case there's a great chance to book someone in the title match opposite Cena depending on the direction they want to take.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> What does the fallout have to do with the match itself? As a standalone match it's amazing.


You think too small picture. I can say there are Vince Russo booked WCW shows that, as being standalone, are amazing. Things in wrestling have to lead somewhere, otherwise what's the point of them happening? The fact that it didn't lead anywhere is a big problem for a company built on things building from each other to progress major storylines, feuds and angles, especially considering that it involved the top guy and a major returning star.

And as a standalone match where we completely ignore the ending happening and the fact that it led nowhere and nothing came out of it (in other words, neglecting giant parts of what pro wrestling focuses on), then I'd say its pretty solid.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

KO Bossy said:


> Because its Summerslam and it draws well every year...2011 only failed because they announced zero matches aside from the main event ahead of time.
> 
> Look at the breakdown:
> 
> ...


He didn't lose out on money though. I mean, you could argue he missed out on making more money, but he still made money with Summerslam's buyrate being the largest since 2009 thanks to Lesnar.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well it's clear that Ambrose/Reigns will be future main eventers, with Rollins seemingly having an outside chance. At the momement, if Reigns finishes his career without multiple WWE/WHC reigns I'd be surprised, he has all of the qualities that the WWE looks for in a guy and OOZES intensity. Seriously, while Ambrose and Rollins are superior, Reigns has the "IT" factor that WWE looks for. Rollins is the only one of the three that can work face though, that's for sure.

Cena's going to drop the belt somewhere between Summerslam and Survivor Series IMO. They've been building up an array of guys to throw at Cena throughout the year ; Cena/Cesaro, Cena/Henry, Cena/Christian, and Cena/Somebody from The Shield can all be main event WWE Championship programs. Knowing the WWE however, we'll probably get Cena/Orton, Cena/Ryback, and Cena/Sheamus.

What the hell are they going to do with Punk ? They're going to need to place him in the company's "1A" feud above the WHC and below Cena, so who do they pair him with long term after Wrestlemania ? It's going to be somebody who can take a few losses as Punk's going to need to get a few to stay credible after losing 3 straight PPV matches. I'm hoping for Punk vs Orton/Sheamus to be the company's second biggest feud from Extreme Rules-Over The Limit, with Punk main eventing the Chicago PPV (whatever that may be) against god knows who. 

The only "new" guys I can see winning MITB this year are Cesaro and Ryback, besides that I think it could be an established star who takes it (Sheamus, Orton, Bryan.... That's it).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Forgot that the first Punk/Henry WWE title match was the night after WM 28, which means DAT POST-MANIA RAW CROWD. Seriously, I had forgotten just how loud the Yes chants were. 

And Punk did a terrific job selling the back injury from the previous night. TAKES NOTES CENA.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 12/4/03)
> 
> I’ve heard so much about this match, and now we’re here….. Benoit vs Lesnar, what should have arguably main evented a few PPVs… Instead we have to settle this on a normal episode of Smackdown, YAY ? …. So basically the story here is that Lesnar claims he isn’t going to be finished with Benoit until Benoit taps out, and since Benoit earned this title shot earlier in the night BROCK comes out of the gate like he’s attacking his wounded prey, terrorizing Benoit with an array of technical attacks. Benoit, ever the psychologist begins the work on Brock’s shoulder in order to set BROCK up for the crossface. He almost locks it in at a few points but Lesnar is having none of it and uses his elite strength to escape danger as much as possible. They go to the outside of the ring and begin beating each other down some more, with Lesnar thirsty for blood and Benoit looking to soften Lesnar up, they continue brawling back into the ring where they start suplexing the hell out of each other.
> 
> ...


Another awesome review KOK. (Y)

I LOVE that match. Both guys were absolutely amazing in that match. The finish was also well-done without each man looking weak.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> He didn't lose out on money though. I mean, you could argue he missed out on making more money, but he still made money with Summerslam's buyrate being the largest since 2009 thanks to Lesnar.


I meant that he missed out on making more money.

I think that's largely what irritates me about this whole thing. The possibilities were endless and they not only had the chance to really maximize on their investment, but also to create some real interest in the industry again by bringing Brock back, and they have just seemed to squander it. Really mismanaged in my opinion.

The Cena getting a win he didn't need is a separate problem I have.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

KO Bossy said:


> I meant that he missed out on making more money.
> 
> I think that's largely what irritates me about this whole thing. The possibilities were endless and they not only had the chance to really maximize on their investment, but also to create some real interest in the industry again by bringing Brock back, and they have just seemed to squander it. Really mismanaged in my opinion.
> 
> The Cena getting a win he didn't need is a separate problem I have.


I mean, you're dealing with a lot of 'what ifs'. Maybe he makes more, then again maybe he doesn't or maybe he does make more, but it's nothing substantial. All we know is he still managed to make money even with Lesnar losing to Cena and he's gonna continue to make a ton of money with Lesnar because Lesnar will always be money regardless of wins/losses or booking.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> What the hell are they going to do with Punk ? They're going to need to place him in the company's "1A" feud above the WHC and below Cena, so who do they pair him with long term after Wrestlemania ? It's going to be somebody who can take a few losses as Punk's going to need to get a few to stay credible after losing 3 straight PPV matches. I'm hoping for Punk vs Orton/Sheamus to be the company's second biggest feud from Extreme Rules-Over The Limit, with Punk main eventing the Chicago PPV (whatever that may be) against god knows who.
> 
> The only "new" guys I can see winning MITB this year are Cesaro and Ryback, besides that I think it could be an established star who takes it (Sheamus, Orton, Bryan.... That's it).


I'm voting Sheamus. This is because I'm still hoping Orton will turn heel and take the WHC from Del Rio, and a heel/heel dynamic with Punk and Orton I don't think would work that well. Unless they have Orton and Punk feud first and THEN have Orton turn heel and win the WHC. I'd be fine with that too.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Starting on my Edge matches now. 

First match: Edge vs Randy Orton - IC Title match - Vengeance 2004.

Well this match goes 26 minutes, which is pretty damn long for a midcard title match. The match starts off slow with both men trying to one up each other with shoulder blocks, then rest holds. There's ''let's go Orton chants'' a few minutes in which is funny considering he's the heel, and Edge is the face. The crowd boo some of Edge's early offense, Orton gets some heat when he tries to leave the match by getting himself counted out, only to be stopped by Edge. I love that the commentators acknowledge that the crowd was in Orton's favor, unlike commentators to day who ignore when a heel gets cheered, most notably guys like Ziggler. Orton's ring work here is more enjoyable and less forumulaic then it is today, and he uses moves he rarely does today like a simple standing dropkick. I feel this match does go a bit too long, it seemed one a few occasions momentum picks up and the pace of the match really steps up only for it to be stopped for a minute with a rest hold, and I notice the crowd was chanting ''boring'' at one point. Match picks up though with a lot of believable near falls, and nice spots, Orton using a thumb to the eye and removing the turnbuckle pad is something you don't see much these days. There was a nice finisher counter sequence when Orton goes for the RKO, Edge counters and pushes Orton into the turnbuckle, Edge goes for the spear, Orton counters and jumps and Edge goes into the turnbuckle, Orton goes for the RKO and Edge reverses into a backslide pin. Which leads to the finish when Edge whips Orton back first into the exposed turnbuckle that Orton exposed, and into a spear which I thought was a nice finish.

Good match, but I thought it went on a bit too long IMO - ****1/2*

And on another note, I really miss 2004 Orton. That entrance he did with the pyro, his great Legend Killer character, his cocky personality and mannerisms, and as I said, his matches were more enjoyable and less predictable.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> OH, I know this wasn't in order with my BROCK project, but I watched this yesterday and wrote a little review up for it.
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 12/4/03)​


Love this match. Benoit was so damn good at looking credible against larger opponents. Just a natural talent he had with his intensity.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge vs Shawn Michaels - street fight - RAW January 28th 2005.

Edge is a heel here and it's around the time when I started to dig Edge's character when he became that crazy, obsessed to be World Champion Edge. Match starts off fast paced as HBK is trying to get revenge on Edge from Edge's attack on him the previous week. A few minutes into the match they start fighting in the crowd, something we don't see much anymore. There's a funny moment when HBK picks up a camera from a fan and takes a picture of Edge.  Literally a few minutes in and HBK already brings out a ladder, only for Edge to nail him with a trash can and take control of the match. Crowd are firmly in HBK's corner, both wrestlers are in street gear which is again something you almost never see anymore, I like it. There's a nasty spot when Edge does a impaler DDT on the chair to HBK which opens him up, HBK being the master at playing the bleeding babyface in trouble. HBK gains back control a few minutes later with a unique spot when HBK throws the ladder at Edge when Edge was on the top turnbuckle attempt to do a diving move. In another nice spot Edge does a nice diving splash off the ladder to HBK. HBK gives Edge an sick chair shot to the head, only pointing that out because JR sold it so perfectly.  JR would make anything seem better than it actually was. These matches are much more enjoyable because of him. Edge hits a spear on HBK which I actually thought was going to be the win, but HBK kicked out, couldn't really remember this match too well so I can't remember the finish, but after Edge is frustrated that HBK kicked out of the spear, he attempts to go for another one only for him to walk right into HBK's Sweet Chin Music. It makes sense that HBK won here because Edge beat at the Royal Rumble a month prior.

A very enjoyable TV match, I'd rate it ****3/4*


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Saw the Mitb pack on XWT :mark:. My body is ready.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I finally got TLC 2012 ordered so I am excited.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> The character will largely be infuriating but there's enough potential to work some intriguing defences and make the title important in the main event before they progress to him dropping the belt and whatever his plans will be for Wrestlemania. Hopefully if The Shield become the featured act they can give Cena a long enough reign without him being the centrepiece of the show and allow people to focus more on The Shield.




Talked about this before with Hayley, but I think that Cena is the puppet master behind the Shield, and will go on to have a perennial run as a face (as i'd like to call it). A turn's always been an Ace up WWE's sleeve and with the product seemingly shifting in a new direction, I see them utilizing this card and extracting the most out of it. The Shield's integration into the main storylines have been a gradual slow build, only subtly giving hints that the bone still has meat around it. I'm absolutely convinced that their mission for justice will culminate into the reveal of Cena's elaborate plan to position himself back into the forefront and dump a proverbial load on the fickle fanbase that treated him unjustly for years. The WWE surely aren't stupid, they know that very few people want to see a Cena road to redemption fairy tale ending as the end result to all this build-up, they wouldn't risk compromising the potential of CM Punk's momentous streak as champion unless they had something huge planned, a necessary evil to set up a long-term payoff. There's no way that the rematch would generate the same amount of buys on it's own now that the novelty wore off, so that justification is hard to buy into. The Shield/Cena alliance would be the perfect way to kick start WWE's post-Mania arc, and it would reinvigorate him at a critical point in his career where the man is slowly transitioning out of his prime. Hulk Hogan wasn't impervious to an attitude adjustment in the late nineties and helped WCW turn the tide, the WWE would be stupid to miss the boat on something that is a natural progression for the Cena character , and the perfect launching point to stamp a new era while moving away the redundant/archaic direction and "play it safe" rut the product has fallen into. Time for them to take chances, and they have the perfect building blocks in place to make those changes for the sake of cultural relevance.


Not only is my theory pivotal in determining the way Cena's title run will be booked post-Mania, but it gives me a reason to follow the storyline closely with some form of faith that things won't go back to the status quo.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge vs Kane - Gold Rush Tournament Final - RAW 16th May 2005. ***3/4*.

An alright match here. The match starts off slow with Edge working the leg of Kane which doesn't really lead anywhere, Kane has a few good comebacks that get him back in control, the match is noteworthy though because this is the match where Lita turns on Kane and joins Edge. In a moment when Edge attempts to use the MITB as a weapon on Kane, he misses, drops the briefcase, Lita grabs the breifcase and holds it so Edge can't use it, Kane then climbs the turnbuckle to attempt a top rope clothesline and Lita passes the MITB to Edge and Edge hits Kane with the briefcase as he's coming off the top rope for the win. Remembered the finish of the match easily, but the match isn't anything to really remember.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

MITB 1 WM 21: 
This match is just pure gold, overall I think the match type is pure gold as well. It filled the Wrestlemania card so well. You got your awesome spotfest in, with Shelton and Benoit definitely stealing the show.I think they both deserved a win in one of these matches for sure. The running up the ladder clothesline and diving headbutt off the ladder to break open the stitches were classic. I wish Jericho was more involved but really I have no complaints. Crazy that this propelled Edge to be the Rated R Superstar pretty much instantly and was well deserved in his own right.

**** 1/2

MITB 2 WM 22:
This was awesome too. I gotta say Ric Flair at 57 years old doing this match and doing those bumps are absolutely bonkers. No reasoning behind it really, but it was pretty fun to watch. Of course Benjamin does his usual spots that steal the show. The crowd was really hot on RVD so I'm pretty sure the right man won though. Lashley was the monster in the match there to just punish with no real chance of winning. Just as fun as the first but a slight nod to the original.

**** 1/4

MITB 1 > MITB 2 so far :cool2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Has there been a bad WM MITB match? I can't think of one. 

Poor Shelton. Always the highlight of those matches yet never really had 'it' to be booked to win one.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Shelton was the star of MITB matches, shame he never really went anywhere. I wouldn't call myself a fan of the guy, but I always appreciated his work in the ring. The guy beat Triple H a few times, had a long established IC Title reign and didn't go anywhere afterwards. I think he should of got a ECW Title run when he was on that brand, because let's face it, if Matt Hardy and John Morrison could I think he should of got one.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Sheltons problem was simply the Mic and his charisma.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Shelton was the star of MITB matches, shame he never really went anywhere. I wouldn't call myself a fan of the guy, but I always appreciated his work in the ring. The guy beat Triple H a few times, had a long established IC Title reign and didn't go anywhere afterwards. I think he should of got a ECW Title run when he was on that brand, because let's face it, if Matt Hardy and John Morrison could I think he should of got one.


I remember him beating HHH and thinking he was going to get a big push. Nothing really seemed to come of it.

I agree with you about him having an ECW Title run. He was good enough for that belt, even though it was probably less prestigious than the WHC is now.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Sheltons problem was simply the Mic and his charisma.


Yep. But that didn't stop guys like Swagger from winning the big one.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I remember him beating HHH and thinking he was going to get a big push. Nothing really seemed to come of it.
> 
> I agree with you about him having an ECW Title run. He was good enough for that belt, even though it was probably less prestigious than the WHC is now.


Of course it was less prestigious than the WHC now. That's the reason why guys like Matt Hardy and John Morrison won it. It was just slightly above midcard title status. I never really saw the title as a credible main event title, it was just the 3rd most important title in the company at the time on the 3rd most important brand.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*One Night Stand 2006:*

Tazz vs Jerry Lawler - 0
- Not much of a match. Lasts about thirty seconds with Tazz getting the Tazzmission locked in which causes Lawler to pass out. Next.

Kurt Angle vs Randy Orton - ★★★½
- Orton has nuclear heat on him from the ECW fans and this is just the start for an awesome night with this crowd. He works them like the excellent heel he is by constantly resorting to heel tactics and building up towards the finish with Angle eventually making him submit. Some good mat-wrestling throughout and a very enjoyable match with a good atmosphere. Loved that goofy smile Orton put on when he walked out of the arena although I think he was overselling the ankle a little bit.

F.B.I. vs Super Crazy/Tajiri - ★★¾
Fast paced cruiserweight action per usual with some great spots. Super Crazy is the main star while Tajiri brings back his awesome kicks after having been away for a while. Serves its purpose as a fun match, going slightly above 10 minutes and in the end, F.B.I. win which surprised me since Little Guido/Nunzio is such a huge jobber on Smackdown. Post-match, Big Show turns up and assaults everyone including Big Guido to show the ECW fans that he's here.

Rey Mysterio vs Sabu - ★★★
- Pretty much what you expect in a Sabu match with lots of spots involving chairs and Mysterio adapts to this style pretty well. Despite wearing a mask with "ECW" on the back, crowd boos him in Sabu's favor which was to be expected and to avoid pissing them off with a very unECWish 619 finish or anything, Sabu springboards over the top rope and DDTs Rey through a table which looked brutal. After that, they declare the match a "no contest" and both competitors are helped to the back. Crowds hates it and chants "Bullshit".

Mick Foley/Edge/Lita vs Tommy Dreamer/Terry Funk/Beulah - ★★★★
- Almost twenty minutes and just brutal hardcore action. Lots of objects aimed towards the head, going through barbwires, even barbwire bats on fire. All four men take some heavy looking bumps and the crowd loves it as they chant "This is awesome!". Funk, in particular, looked pretty bad with what was apparently an eye injury. He's taken out of the match for a bit and Edge & Foley start toying with Dreamer and Beulah freely until Funk returns. After that, both Funk and Foley are taken out of the finish by going through a table wrapped with barbwire and Edge spears Beulah and pins her in a... weird way to say the least.

Balls Mahoney vs Tanaka - ★★
- Not much to say on this one. Lasts about only 5 minutes and other than the final chair shot that gave Mahoney the win, nothing to write home about.

Rob Van Dam vs John Cena - ★★★★
- Everyone knows this match. The crowd is on Cena like never before and never after. They keep verbally abusing him for the entirety of the match and that automatically causes Cena to play the heel. And what a wonderful job he does. The ring action is pretty good with some "extreme" spots to go with No DQ stipulation. Cena also responds pretty well to the chants he gets. When they chant "You can't wrestle" and "Same ol' shit", he does some new moves. The crowd would rather set the place on fire than give him any credit so the response continues to be "You still suck" and then he decides to troll them instead by doing the 5 Knuckle Shuffle with a giant smile on his face, causing fans to chant "Asshole". RVD does his usual athletic work that pops the crowd and Cena adapts to a different style pretty well. Also liked seeing him pin RVD with his feet on the ropes and then hitting the referee after forcing him to break the STFU when RVD reached the ropes. After that, Edge comes out and spears Cena through the table which causes the same crowd that chanted "Fuck you Edge" to chant "Thank you Edge" in an instant. RVD rolls back in and hits the 5 Star Frog Splash then Paul Heyman comes out to count the final pinfall as replacement for the attacked referees. RVD finally wins the big one and they have a huge celebration afterward while Cena quietly leaves the arena.

*Overall:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (I enjoyed this PPV quite a bit. Three very good matches and some okay undercard stuff. Love the main event plus the crowd is awesome all night long. Whenever I think of this PPV, I look at the date and am reminded of the pre-summer party I had at school this very night. Ah, the memories.)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Have ONS 2006 on DVD, it's a good show. And I may re-watch that Edge/Foley/Lita vs Funk/Dreamer/Beulah match as it's on my Edge DVD too that I'm going through.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

blarg_ said:


> *The WWE surely aren't stupid*, they know that very few people want to see a Cena road to redemption fairy tale ending as the end result to all this build-up, they wouldn't risk compromising the potential of CM Punk's momentous streak as champion unless they had something huge planned, a necessary evil to set up a long-term payoff.
> 
> The Shield/Cena alliance would be the perfect way to kick start WWE's post-Mania arc, and it would reinvigorate him at a critical point in his career where the man is slowly transitioning out of his prime.


I'd be careful not to underestimate WWE's stupidity. I'm a big CM Punk fan and loved his title run, but I think WWE would have ended it earlier if they didn't have Rock coming back. I fail to believe that Vince loves Punk so much that he decided to give him a 434 day reign. 

Rock's once again a transitional champion as he defends the strap once then drops it to Cena. Vince has probably been salivating for months knowing Cena's getting DAT REDEMPTION at Mania 29.

Cena's likely holding the belt until around Summerslam, and hopefully drops it to someone coming up. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Punk win the title back at some point later on, though.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Has there been a bad WM MITB match? I can't think of one.
> 
> Poor Shelton. Always the highlight of those matches yet never really had 'it' to be booked to win one.


MITB III and VI are not that great to me. 

**1/2 and ** respectively.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I'd be careful not to underestimate WWE's stupidity. I'm a big CM Punk fan and loved his title run, but I think WWE would have ended it earlier if they didn't have Rock coming back. I fail to believe that Vince loves Punk so much that he decided to give him a 434 day reign.


 I wouldn't say Rock - Punk was confirmed in July 2012. Look at this report below which suggests Ryback was originally planned to win. Surely that debunks the idea that Punk only became a long-reigning champion because of the Rock? 

*"Even though Ryback lost at WWE Hell in a Cell, WWE plans to push him as the new main event babyface monster in the future.

The original plan for Hell in a Cell was to have Ryback pin CM Punk clean and win the WWE title. He would have held the belt through Survivor Series and then lost it in a multi-man gimmick match at TLC where he wouldn't have to be pinned or submitted. This would have allowed the streak to continue. Vince McMahon had settled on this plan on October 25, just three days before the PPV.

Then the next day, Vince decided to keep the belt on CM Punk because he felt Punk's long title reign was more important than Ryback's undefeated streak, which isn't necessary to play him up as a monster. WWE has spent so much time focusing on Punk's title reign that they felt it would be better to keep the belt on him until the Royal Rumble so his match with The Rock will have higher stakes.

Once the decision was made to keep the belt on Punk, WWE then tried to come up with ways for Ryback to lose without looking weak. WWE considered several options before going with crooked referee Brad Maddox. Several ideas brought up included run-ins from Brock Lesnar, Big Show, Mark Henry and even Vince McMahon himself."*

Source: http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/10935/original-hell-in-a-cell-plans-revealed-ryback-title-win


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Nah Rock/Punk was set at RAW 1000


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Nah Rock/Punk was set at RAW 1000


It sure looked that way. If the promo in the middle of the show didn't give people an idea, Punk's attack on Rock to end the show sealed it. Not only did it set off Punk's heel turn, but set the seeds for their program. 

Ryback's credibility is so far gone now, unless he wins at Mania, he's going to struggle to get it back. Unfortunately for him, WM is in a smarky area and that crowd is likely to shit on him, just like at TLC. He hasn't won a legit PPV at all (maybe he beat some jobbers at Summerslam) and he ate the pin at EC. Now the most recent one was likely to set off something bigger but who knows.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

You're right, Punk vs Rock probably was set in July but I don't know if Punk's title reign was originally meant to last long.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm glad it did, now Ryback can go to the mid card where he belongs for the foreseeable future


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I would have rather Lesnar won, but booking doesn't influences how I see a match at all, if that were the case then I would have Rock-Cena as a DUD instead of the pretty good rating I have it out now, and I would have invented a new rating system to dive into how bad Rock-Punk were.
> 
> Thinking about it, in the terms of context within the match it makes a ton of sense to have Cena win ; however the long term booking of Cena have rendered that match entirely pointless. I honestly believe that after reading Lesnar's book, that he gave Cena the win just to put over the top spot in the company that HE LEFT BEHIND. Giving back at it's finest, now we're looking towards a big two year plan with a list of Lesnar matches that NEED to happen.
> 
> ...


My favourite Smackdown match of all time, would of loved to see these guys tear it up at Wrestlemania 19, say Benoit actually beat Angle at the Royal Rumble. I agree, it's a crime if this match ever gets lost in the shuffle of TV classics, a top 5 Smackdown match in my view. Great review again KOK. 

Dat Brock :brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Has there been a bad WM MITB match? I can't think of one.
> 
> Poor Shelton. Always the highlight of those matches yet never really had 'it' to be booked to win one.


First MITB match from 2012 wasn't anything special. Wouldn't call it good outside of a few spots. Best one being from Tensai too. How awesome.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)*



*17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)​**
"Is impersonation the most sincere form of flattery?" Jim Ross​*









Ahhh yes this match, whenever I get the chance to see my 2 favourite wrestlers of all time tie it up, I can't help myself :mark: I can't help but to think what was going through the head of Jericho, he was getting the chance to wrestle at the biggest stage in this industry against the guy who inspired him to do this. This match is great from the get go, I loved the feeling out process and how the commentary sold the story of how similar their styles were. Jericho after the feeling out process went for the back, which obviously makes sense with HBK only being back 6 months from a near 5 year back injury. I hate to criticise HBK, but he could of sold the back better, he had a great story right in front of him but at times he forgot to sell the injury. Shawn Michaels may be Mr Wrestlemania, but on this night he was outperformed as Jericho put on one of his best performances ever. The flying forearm into the kip up was :mark: but it also played up to the story of Jericho saying he is better then HBK. Jericho using all of HBK's move was such a dick heel move, which not just me but all the crowd seemed to love. The finish was great, with the crowd eating up the entire finishing sequence. With HBK winning by roll up it made Jericho look strong, I still think though the wrong man won Jericho really needed the rub. I would of loved Jericho to win with SCM it would of been a huge moment and in your face to HBK. This is a Wrestlemania classic, that will always find a place on my list, with better selling of the back from HBK and this could of found itself near the top 10.​*
**** 1/4​*

*16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)*

*"Ohh my god Benjamin ran up that ladder and delivered a clothesline!" Jim Ross*










With all due respect to the classic TLC matches from the hardys, Dudleys and Edge and Christian, this is the greatest multi man ladder match ever. I think 6 is the perfect number of superstars for a MITB match, where it feels as if nearly everyone in the match has a chance to win. Where in today's MITB ladder matches they consist mainly of people who stand no chance of winning, where in this match every superstar legitimately had a chance to win. The story starts immediately with everyone trying to take out the biggest threat in the match Kane. I just love how in this match, majority of the spots don't look set up for someone like me that gathers huge praise. Even the big spot with Shelton running up the ladder didn't seem set up, with Christian holding the ladder and Jericho then kicking him in the gut, he dropped the ladder onto the other ladder. I have to say Shelton running up the ladder is my favourite spot ever in a MITB match. If this match was the Shelton Benjamin show, Chris Benoit was the glue that kept it all together. Benoit's psychology and arm selling was GOD like, and was great enough for me to say he was the MVP in this match not Shelton. Edge winning was the start of his ultimate opportunist gimmick, he was the guy who contributed the least in the match and won it was such a dick heel moment. I love this match, on a night with a tremendous undercard this match stole the show. This match will always be one of my favourite, and one of the greatest Wrestlemania matches of all time, ohh how great you were Benoit.​*
**** 1/2*​


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Superb list so far. I think I can probably tell you your top 2 though. I'll let you know when you get there


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Superb list so far. I think I can probably tell you your top 2 though. I'll let you know when you get there


I still haven't picked my number 1 yet :lmao You should be able to guess my top 5, it's pretty much the same as nearly everybody on this forum.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I have tried for the past two nights to watch Hardy/Punk Cage match from 2009, and I was so god damn tired I literally fell asleep both times, but tonight is the night, because damn it I know I liked it!

EDIT: I finished it this time, I knew it was awesome! ******


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I still haven't picked my number 1 yet :lmao You should be able to guess my top 5, it's pretty much the same as nearly everybody on this forum.


I imagine it would be similar to those on the forum but due to you being a big Shawn Michaels fan, it may be slightly different? I can imagine HBK/Taker, HBK/Hart both being in your top 5?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> I imagine it would be similar to those on the forum but due to you being a big Shawn Michaels fan, it may be slightly different? I can imagine HBK/Taker, HBK/Hart both being in your top 5?


HBK/Hart didn't make the list  SHOCKER. 

I may be a huge HBK mark, but I generally like to think I'm a fair rater towards his matches. I know 1 match that hasn't come up yet of his will be much higher then people expect but it's my favourite match of all time.

Only 3 HBK matches make the Top 10, that's all I'm giving away


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Shawn/Flair?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Shawn/Flair?


You will find out soon  stay tuned.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Interesting.... Favorite match of all time...... Hmmmmm............

It's a fucking crime that Benoit-Brock will be forgotten, when it's obviously one of the better TV matches I've ever seen. Another SMACKDOWN 2003 Classic, which reminds me ; Just watched Show-Taker-Brock from Smackdown 2003, anybody here have any thoughts before I jot a review down ?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Interesting.... Favorite match of all time...... Hmmmmm............
> 
> It's a fucking crime that Benoit-Brock will be forgotten, when it's obviously one of the better TV matches I've ever seen. Another SMACKDOWN 2003 Classic, which reminds me ; Just watched Show-Taker-Brock from Smackdown 2003, anybody here have any thoughts before I jot a review down ?


Yep I've seen the match at least 50 times, and recall pretty much the whole match over. Everytime I watch it, I can't help but :mark:

Benoit-Brock is boss and my personal favourite Smackdown match. Haven't seen Show/Taker/Brock but seems amusing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's a personal favorite, and it just might make a top 10 greatest WWF/WWE TV matches ever list if I were composing it.

I'm actually going to go think about that one for a second. I know my top two and that's about it, definitely need to rewatch Owen-Bulldog to gain a better perspective on that one for sure .


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> It's a personal favorite, and it just might make a top 10 greatest WWF/WWE TV matches ever list if I were composing it.
> 
> I'm actually going to go think about that one for a second. I know my top two and that's about it, definitely need to rewatch Owen-Bulldog to gain a better perspective on that one for sure .


It's a top 5 smackdown match for me definitely and might have an outside chance to make the top 10 TV matches ever on my list

Owen/Bulldog :mark: is a top 5 TV match for me.

If I comprised a list:

Austin/Benoit
Austin&HHH/Benoit/Jericho
Owen/Bulldog
TLC III
Angle/Taker 
Cena/HBK
Bret/123 Kid

Outside chances:

HBK&Austin/Owen&Bulldog
Brock/Benoit
Brock/Angle
Guerrero/Mysterio
HBK/Benoit

Just off the top of my head

Even Cena/Punk last week may have a chance for one of the final spots :mark:

Way too many good TV matches I would struggle to make a top 25 list, in fear of missing so many great matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's ridiculously close to what I'd have on there, barring a few matches.

Eddie-Rey would be top five for me (top three actually), same with Austin/Benoit, Austin/GAME vs Benoit/Jericho, BROCK vs Angle, and MAYBE Owen vs Bulldog closing out the top five. 

Am I the only one who thinks DOLPH vs Cena from TLC 2012 is extremely overrated ? I just watched it and it honestly wouldn't break the three star barrier for me, I might watch it again for reference but damn.... For the people who are throwing fours at it; you're all tripping mad balls :lol .

This is coming from a fan of both guys too, especially Cena (who I've become a MARK for).


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> That's ridiculously close to what I'd have on there, barring a few matches.
> 
> Eddie-Rey would be top five for me (top three actually), same with Austin/Benoit, Austin/GAME vs Benoit/Jericho, BROCK vs Angle, and MAYBE Owen vs Bulldog closing out the top five.
> 
> ...


I did awhile ago my top 25 raw matches and had Austin/Game vs Benoit/Jericho top the list with Owen/Bulldog, Bret/123 Kid, HBK/Cena and I think HBK&Austin vs Owen/Bulldog round out the top 5. 

I really need to rewatch Eddie/Mysterio. We need to after mania compile a forum wide best TV match list  

Same I thought it wasn't incredibly overrated and definitely not 4 stars I believe I threw at it last time **** 1/4* basically because of Dolph Winning :mark:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Dolph/Cena around **. Not good at all especially when compared to the great Shield match earlier in the night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It really isn't anything special when you look past the "omg Dolph won" goggles. Both have had way better matches. Especially Cena.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Couldn't imagine a Ziggler/Cena match being very sharp. I haven't seen it, but neither of those wrestlers have great arsenals or the wrestling psychology to lead a match into classic territory. I think Ziggler would be a solid babyface in the ring, bumps very well, makes other people look good. And would be a very fitting underdog. Whether he could make the character translation, and be a likeable person, who knows.

Starrcade '84. Worse than '83, but '83 is an incredible PPV.

Ratings;
The Koloffs (Nikita & Ivan) VS Keith Larson & Ole Anderson ***
NWA Television Champion Tully Blanchard VS Ricky Steamboat ***1/2
NWA World Heavyweight Champion Ric Flair VS Dusty Rhodes **

Flair vs Rhodes, I was going in expecting a classic match. I came away witnessing a Dusty finish. I enjoyed their exchanges for the match, but they gave the match no time. It lasted roughly 12-14 minutes. They gave it a Dusty finish, was always going to happen with him booking himself I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena does and has quite a few times, actually.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Trying to think of those possible matches, against Lashley comes to mind. Orton. Now I'm starting to blank up.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Thoughts on Fully Loaded '99? Went to watch the HHH/Rock strap match but ended up watching the whole event instead.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time
*​


*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)*



*15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)*

*"Your gonna be damaged goods just like Elizabeth, you gotta walk that aisle and face the best wrestler alive today" Ric Flair*











Being a huge fan of both guys, I was dying to watch this match again. Anything other then an classic between these 2 wouldn't of been good enough for me, fortunately this was a classic in every sense of the word. I loved how they didn't wait for the bell to ring, Savage immediately went after Flair, which played to the story that theses guys hated each other. The intensity in this match is just great. This match can be summed up in 3 parts, Flair dominating the early going then Savage fighting back and assaulting Flair causing him to bleed, then the hot conclusion with Elizabeth coming out. Savage's selling of the knee after the chair shot from Perfect was glorious. Of course in typical Ric Flair fashion he dissected the knee of Savage like only he can do. Ric Flair was awesome in this drawing heat and his insults towards Elizabeth were hilarious. While Flair was the ultimate heel, Savage was an amazing babyface showing so much heart and courage and doing anything he could to win. Not to pick at this match because it is awesome, but some parts of the middle portion dragged and that's the major reason why it doesn't make my top 10. I had no problem with the ending as some people might, it fit the story that Savage would do anything to win and take the title from Flair, that he would even pull the tights to get the 3 count. Remember these guys don't respect each other and were willing to do whatever to win. This is a great great match, with great storytelling and a satisfying ending and that's why it's the 15th greatest match In Wrestlemania history.​*
**** 1/2​*

*14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)*​*
" The end, the climax, the grand finale, this is the last chapter of the greatest rivalry that this industry has ever seen" The Rock​*








For being a guy so critical when talking about the Rock, he was downright awesome in this match. He without a doubt carried a very unhealthy Steve Austin and in the process had close to his greatest performance ever. In typical Austin/Rock fashion this match started out with a fast paced brawl and a hot crowd. Seeing Austin wrestle his last match is so bittersweet, you come to appreciate it so much. Seeing him flip off the ref, being intense like only he can, drop elbows, and of course hit the Stunner you can't help but :mark: Austin has control of the match for the first few minutes until Rocky hits a desperation chop block, then goes after the knee of Austin which makes sense with all the history of knee problems he has had. Rocky taunting Austin is always fun, then he slaps on his ugly looking sharpshooter. Rocky then puts on Austin's jacket as a sign of disrespect, which brings a fight back by Austin and the crowd goes crazy for his comeback. Then we get into the climax with all the finishers and kick outs, which the fans went crazy for. I loved how when Austin kicked out of Rocks stunner, he got super intense and battered Austin with several hard shots. 2 rock bottoms and Austin kicks out, he refused to lose to the Rock. Another big rock bottom and that's it, the end (so we think) to the career of possibly the greatest of all time. This match is so great and had some amazing storytelling from 2 of the biggest stars ever, and seeing it as possibly the last match ever of Steve Austin makes it even more memorable. Thank you Steve Austin for an amazing career and this is the 14th greatest match in Wrestlemania history.​*
**** 1/2*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Thoughts on Fully Loaded '99? Went to watch the HHH/Rock strap match but ended up watching the whole event instead.


Was that the 'End Of An Era' PPV? I remember Austin/Taker and that is it i think...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Was that the 'End Of An Era' PPV? I remember Austin/Taker and that is it i think...


Yeah it was. The stipulation was that if Austin lost, he'd never receive another shot at the title. If 'Taker lost, Vince would never be seen on TV again. The great thing about that match was everyone showing how much the title meant to them. I don't think they could do another 'last chance at the title' match nowadays since wrestlers barely act like the title matters. Same with the HHH/Rock match. J.R kept saying on commentary how much a title shot meant to both guys, especially HHH.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just been lokking through a few of my VHS's:










Across 2-VHS tapes (as the event is of course 4 hours), MASSIVE double case too lol :| Wonder why SV didnt use this for the TC version...


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

How is that Top 100 RAW moments DVD? Anybody check that out






shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> *14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)*​*
> " The end,  the climax, the grand finale, this is the last chapter of the greatest rivalry that this industry has ever seen" The Rock​*
> 
> 
> ...


Good read.

Rock/Austin III is my favorite of the two. I dont know too many people who share that same feeling but this bout was the greatest encounter from them to me.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

John Cena vs. Sabu from Vengeance 2006 is a good watch, Although i did feel slack for Sabu when he took that FU into the table bump. A man of his age shouldn't be taking those.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> How is that Top 100 RAW moments DVD? Anybody check that out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cheers mate, alot of people on here believe its their best encounter as well. KOK who just finished his Wrestlemania countdown had this match ahead of their Wm17 encounter. I think it was number 9 on his list If I'm correct.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle - SummerSlam 2004
*GEM~. Definitely one of the brighter points in an otherwise dissapointing and subpar SummerSlam, perhaps part of that thanks to one of the worst crowds in a major crowd ever (even though it just happened to be Toronto), which actually came to life for the good side in two matches only (this and Benoit/Orton). Some extremely good storytelling and psychology revolving the whole "Eddie can't beat Angle without cheating" situation, with Eddie doing his best to avoid the "demons" and not cheat in any kind of form, while Angle explored those sort-of distractions to dominate Latino Heat in every single corner. It's much more storyline driven than the WM 20 match, and also stiffer, deeper and more personal too. Of course, some of Kurt Angle's psychology brings this down (as usual), as well as the fact that they worked a little too much over Eddie's "non-cheating" thing, so much that it became annoying to me. However, that doesn't atop it from being excellent. Overall, IMO doesn't trump their Mania match, but it's still a really good watch for storyline match purists. ****3/4*


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I'd be careful not to underestimate WWE's stupidity. I'm a big CM Punk fan and loved his title run, but I think WWE would have ended it earlier if they didn't have Rock coming back. I fail to believe that Vince loves Punk so much that he decided to give him a 434 day reign.
> 
> Rock's once again a transitional champion as he defends the strap once then drops it to Cena. Vince has probably been salivating for months knowing Cena's getting DAT REDEMPTION at Mania 29.
> 
> ...


Well, the point I was making is that the WWE wouldn't be going through with these plans if they didn't have a huge twist planned that would elicit a long-term payoff.

Even if the 434 day title reign wasn't originally planned, they still could've went to Wrestlemania with it and have the streak culminate in someone defeating Punk in epic fashion. It could've been an up and comer to help solitify his status, or they could've put more effort into the Punk/Rock as a Wrestlemania headlining match instead of treating it as a filler feud to kill time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another favorite match i thought id upload:

*Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2001)

Tagged Classic version, unblurred, unedited etc..*

https://hotfile.com/dl/196965091/e025f7b/Austin-Angle_-_Summerslam2001.avi.html


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good post, Zep. I always liked that match, and their one the next month at Unforgiven was good too. The celebration at the end was great.

One problem I had with that storyline was how they handled it after. During that run J.R would keep saying on commentary how Austin was 'scared' of Kurt and that he couldn't beat him clean. That was all well and good, but then literally a couple of months later at Vengeance, Austin (now face) beats Angle (now heel) clean. And they don't even make a big deal about it! Frustrating. Though why Austin turned face literally the night after the alliance had been vanquished at Survivor Series still confuses me.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> John Cena vs. Sabu from Vengeance 2006 is a good watch, Although i did feel slack for Sabu when he took that FU into the table bump. A man of his age shouldn't be taking those.


Forgotten gem.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - Extreme Rules 07/06/2009

ECW Rules match... or Extreme Rules match... or Hardcore match... or Street Fight... or No Holds Barred... yeah it's one of those matches .

Swagger looks good at the start, using his power and wrestling ability to keep it one on one in the ring and things going his way. Then Christian and Dreamer both go under the ring and bring out weapons to beat the shit out of the All American American.

:lmao Swagger gets knocked out of the ring at one point and nearly lands inside a trash can. I'd have given this ***** if he landed in it rather than just his arm going in .

Dreamer does shit with weapons, but the best parts of this are clearly Swagger/Christian. Callback spots from their previous matches including a big press slam (not to the outside though), and the turnbuckle cover being removed which I'm hoping will come back later in the match for a pay off. 

Some really fun spots in this match, most of them based on moves they already do, only this time using weapons to aid them, which I like over something random. Bit where Christian does his springboard crossbody from the inside to the floor and ends up colliding with a trash can thanks to Swagger is sweet. Christian looks like he's DEAD afterwards too.

Yey, exposed turnbuckle comes into play . Swagger drops Christian on it, goes for the Powerbomb, only to be stopped by Dreamer and DDT'd! Dreamer gets the win and becomes the NEW ECW Champion and his contract is renewed. Yey?

Fun fun fun fun fun fun fun. Fun. This match is fun. Good too, but mainly fun. I liked it a lot. Was a little worried it would be shit (Dreamer being involved and all), but nope, good. And fun. Dreamer cries some more. He's the ECW version of Ric Flair.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

God dammit Cal, all these reviews are just reminding me day by day that i haven't even started on my ECW 09 pack


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Vengeance 06, I'm almost there. Orton/Angle and Edge/RVD are damn good. Interested in DX destroying Spirit Squad and Flair/Foley too. Cena/Sabu is an alright match. Also Cena's only PPV after Wrestlemania 21 up until his 2007 injury where the WWE Championship is nowhere in sight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ever Wolf said:


> God dammit Cal, all these reviews are just reminding me day by day that i haven't even started on my ECW 09 pack


Well maybe, just maybe... YOU SHOULD FUCKING START!!!


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Well maybe, just maybe... YOU SHOULD FUCKING START!!!


It's on the long list :cool2

Let's see what i can remember from Vengeance 06

Orton/Angle: ***1/4
Morrison/Benjamin/Carlito: **1/2
RVD/Edge: ***1/2
Kane/KANE: DUD
Cena/Sabu: **3/4
DX/Spirit Squad: **

That's what i've got on record anyway, but it's been a long time since i've seen any of these matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tony Atlas Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 09/06/2009

:lmao at Tony Atlas's ring attire. Even the monster badass Henry is laughing and smiling at him on their way to the ring.

So Atlas is doing this to make up for costing Mark a match last week against Bourne. Not much to say about this, other than... it isn't bad! In any way! Not great either, but considering you have a HOF Tony Atlas wrestling at least 15 year after his prime, it's good. Bourne makes him look good, gets some good offence in of his own, then picks up the win with a SSP.

Henry attacks Bourne after the match (they get their 3rd match next week, right?), and leaves Atlas behind.

Rating: **

Christian & Jack Swagger Vs The Hart Dynasty - ECW 09/06/2009

So Dreamer was supposed to be Christian's tag partner, but he was crying and shit as usual because he won the title and Christian put him through a table to shut him up. Something like that. So Tiffany in all her hotness... uhhh I mean wisdom... makes Swagger the new partner of Christian.

Christian starts, looks good, tags in Swagger who wrestles with Tyson then... shoves Christian off the apron to tag him . Swagger looks pleased with himself. They've never had Swagger as a face in WWE yet, have they? He's been around for over 4 years now, kinda surprised they haven't randomly switched him face and back to heel and face again before going back to heel like they do with so many other people. Maybe him being a face is the key to... people giving a shit about him? I dunno.

Thankfully this match is under 10 minutes long so we don't get too much of Smith or Kidd sitting in rest holds. Decent enough work over on Christian, then Christian builds momentum... goes to tag Swagger... and punches him in the face instead and goes back to single handedly taking apart the Hart Dynasty!

Killswitch attempt, Swagger prevents it, Hart Attack, and Christian gets pinned. This was a solid match. Nothing amazing, but nothing close to being bad.

Rating: **1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm scared of watching ECW 09 because this goofy image might cover my vision and make me tear up from laughing so hard. 










All jokes aside, I dare anyone tell me Swagger is NOT a goof after looking at this pic. And it doesn't even have to be a bad thing.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

he's just high in that pic, leave him be


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_W/Eddie Guerrero vs Bubba Ray Dudley/Rob Van Dam - 06/05/02 RAW_

What a GOAT team we have here in Eddie and BROCK, who would go on to wrestle in one of the best WWF/WWE title bouts ever two years later. In terms of being an actual good contest and not just a fun and intense BROCK squash, this is probably Lesnar’s finest in the WWE so far, as Eddie da GAWD sells a beating from Bubba and Van Dam fairly well to make this work while at the same time crafting some pretty good offensive moves to keep things rolling. Van Dam and Eddie are always awesome in the ring plus Brock works well with both men so this was obviously no exception as once BROCK gets in the ring shit starts to get more intense. Eddie is such a cowardly heel here and he plays such a good role that it blows my mind that I have to explain to people why he’s so great and not overrated because of his untimely death sometimes.

Brock actually gets fairly matched up with Bubba and Van Dam too instead of it being just a random squash match where he destroys both men. The weakest part of the match would have to be Brock’s selling, as he hasn’t really mastered the art of selling at this point whatsoever (he’s BROCK LESNAR, he doesn’t have to fucking sell) but whatever, this match is still good. Eddie and Brock (EDDIE BROCK. TEAM VENOM) make a damn good team and there are some really explosive portions to this match at times.

*** 3/4*

_Vs Bubba Ray Dudley 06/10/02 - RAW_

King of the Ring qualifying match with Brock going up against Bubba Ray for the third straight week in terms of…. OH SHIT BROCK HAS NON-JOBBER THEME MUSIC, Love hearing that shit for the first time. Bubba hits one move and immediately goes for the tables, and in one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever seen in a wrestling match, Heyman hits Bubba only for Bubba to turn around, causing Heyman to scream “OH SHIT” and jump over the announce table while Brock hits a HUGE belly to belly on the outside. When they get back into the ring Lesnar and Bubba trade shots and big time moves back and forth like a boss until they break out the REAL big stuff.

This is such a great big man sprint as the pace Lesnar brings is unheard of for most 250 + pounders. The way these two guys just throw each other around reminds me of a Steiner-Goldberg type encounter. BROCK wins via a very impressive F-5 and moves on to the next round of the KOTR tournament. Only five minutes long but every second of this is awesome. One of the best five minute matches I’ve ever seen and a legitimately underrated RAW match, check it out.

*****

_Vs Booker T 06/17/02 - RAW_

Quarterfinals of the King of the Ring tournament here as the Book man and BROCK go at it for a spot on the PPV. Really short match here with not a lot of focus on the guys in the ring and more focus on the NWO guys doing commentary and Goldust and shit. Still though, Brock charges at Booker and hits some really mean shoulder strikes to the gut and proceeds to work the midsection the entire match. BROCK AND HIS BROCK PSYCHOLOGY BITCH. Heyman is gold (as always, I’m obligated to say this on every single pre Survivor Series 2002 Brock Lesnar match of course) and Booker sells like a champ only for the crowd to love his baby face comeback.

Booker hits the scissors kick and foolishly does the spin a roonie, which you just DON’T DO AGAINST BROCK LESNAR who gives Booker an F-5 for his troubles to put an end to a very fun match. BROCK just had his power control segments down to a tee at this point and every single one of his matches were watchable no matter how short, and this is certainly no exception. Fun all around as I’m seriously starting to consider if Brock ever had a BAD match, because if he did it would have to be one where he took a beatdown for a majority of the match.

****

_vs Test - King of the Ring 2002_

Lesnar always works well against big men so this should be a good King of the Ring semi- finals match, granted that Test doesn’t have a single prayer in this world to win. These two bulls lock horns at the beginning of the match and nobody gains the advantage so we go back and forth through power move after power move as I’m starting to see a common theme in this one ‘ Lesnar’s at a point where he needs a few legitimate matches and less squashes, and since this one runs 9 minutes it could probably be considered his first “lengthy” and even singles match. This is a good power vs power contest with Test getting a surprising about of offense in here while Brock starts selling half decently.

BROCK eats two finishers and kicks out of both while Heyman screams “YOU’RE GODZILLLAAA BROCK!” and I mark the fuck out . Eventually BROCK realizes that Test of all people isn’t going over the Next Big Thing so he swiftly disposes of him with a powerful F-5. Decent big man’s match here, but I felt that this should have been a 5 minute long big man’s sprint like the Bubba-Brock match up from a few weeks prior. Good shit though, as Lesnar is learning how to put together a match with more than one act and how to clash with various styles, decent.

*** 1/4*

_vs RVD - King of the Ring 2002_

King of the Ring finals here we go! Brock starts this off like a man possessed as this is almost a big time feel with Heyman screaming “TITLE SHOT BROCK”, this match makes me feel like Brock was ready to step up to the big time. Brock’s performance in this short, 5-6 minute match was a typical Brock vs small man match, meaning it was fucking great stuff except this time Van Dam’s performance was solid as well. Van Dam’s offense was centered around Brock’s mistakes and nothing more, while BROCK’S offense is just that he’s a god damn beast that can’t be stopped.

Van Dam puts Lesnar over huge here as Lesnar kicks out of some pretty big moves and lands some really dominating shots of his own. This is a short, but sweet matchup that gets me excited to watch their Vengeance and RAW rematches for the first time which I hear great stuff about, great match and typical Brock.

*** 3/4*


_Vs Rob Van Dam - 6/22/02 RAW_

After watching their KOTR finals match I was so fucking hyped to watch this forgotten about match for the first time, as BROCK and RVD have some pretty decent big man vs little man (well, RVD isn’t exactly little but he is when he’s compared to the next big thing) chemistry and BROCK always brings it. Brock charges the shit out of Van Dam right away and they go straight to the big time sequences ; monkey flip countered into a powerbomb countered into a hurricarana, outside the ring dive into a vicious catch and ring post shot. These two are just so athletic that they can go out into the ring and do some really creative things to tell their story, like Brock using his strength to throw Van Dam around the ring from turnbuckle to turnbuckle with a sadistic smile on his face, and like Van Dam making his babyface comeback by breaking out his elite flexibility and dodging Lesnar’s onslaught.

This match is just fantastic for a free TV match that runs under 10 minutes long, as it’s a perfect example of a monster heel dismantling a big time babyface with a nice heel control segment into an explosive babyface comeback only for there to be a DQ that leads to a big time PPV match. That’s how you build up a big time match on TV, by having the babyface comeback making you believe that the beast will be slain on PPV. Brock’s best singles bout to date as he still doesn’t have a singles match that goes over 10 minutes. Check this one out, as it’s really great.

**** 1/4*
​


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Couldn't imagine a Ziggler/Cena match being very sharp. I haven't seen it, but neither of those wrestlers have great arsenals or the wrestling psychology to lead a match into classic territory. I think Ziggler would be a solid babyface in the ring, bumps very well, makes other people look good. And would be a very fitting underdog. Whether he could make the character translation, and be a likeable person, who knows.


The Cena/Ziggler matches this year were bad. I liked their ladder match though. Big Show said Ziggler would be huge if they turned him face and made the Superkick his finisher. I tend to agree. His athleticism is already something the fans gravitate to, even as a heel. As you said he'd probably be a better worker too. More bumping and selling, less control work would suit him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I hope Ziggler cashes in at Mania. Crowd would be rabid.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't really know what I want to happen with the WHC. I'm fine with Ziggler winning it but I'm also fine with Del Rio keeping it for a while.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I just think Ziggler is being wasted right now, jobbing week in and week out. Him cashing in and winning the title @ Mania (has that ever happened with the briefcase?) would instantly restore his credibility. Would also breathe some life into the SD main event scene.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Said it umpteen times, but I can't fathom why Ziggler is a heel. His athleticism, agility and bumping is tailor made for a face and it wouldn't take much to tweak 'the showoff' into an incredibly confident babyface character. All his problems lie in controlling a match and what he does in between the offence in a match. At least as a face his role in between the moves would be tailor made for his bumping and ability to build and tease his comeback. Del Rio's transformation should be proof that the better bumpers should be babyfaces and let the more astute and methodical workers be heel and control the tempo and structure on their end better.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ziggler cashing in at 'Mania would be a good way to move Swagger away from the title scene (if that's how he's going to be punished at some point). Though I'd like to see Ziggler cash in, thus setting up Ziggler/Del Rio/Swagger at the next PPV.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He'd be what Morrison as a face should've been.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I just think Ziggler is being wasted right now, jobbing week in and week out. Him cashing in and winning the title @ Mania (has that ever happened with the briefcase?) would instantly restore his credibility. Would also breathe some life into the SD main event scene.


Yeah I guess I agree with this. Would be cool to see the briefcase cashed in at Mania for the first time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> He'd be what Morrison as a face should've been.


Agreed. The guy's passion and hardwork practically radiates on screen whenever he appears. I'm not a big fan in terms of his overall ringwork yet but his attitude and persona is so obviously catered towards a hardworking babyface with an incredible confidence in himself that can get them behind him. He really just doesn't have the persona of a heel to me, no matter how much he tries to master the hipster/self obsessed narcissist character.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I reckon going up against Punk would be the great way to show the fans that Ziggler is a great babyface. CM Punk has the repitoire to allow to Ziggler shine. But that will probably be a year down the line, maybe two. If he worked very hard, he'd be a perfect replica of Ricky Steamboat.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think that's a really strong bit of praise considering we've never seen Ziggler work as a face. Steamboat is one of the most expressive and talented babyface workers to grace the industry, there's no doubt Ziggler as a face screms greater potential and ability to improve but for now there's no indication he'd be a better babyface worker than Evan Bourne. I use Bourne not as a negative, but rather an illustration of a great babyface worker with experience and evidence of his ability in that role.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Like I said, if he worked very hard, it is very possible. I only used Ricky Steamboat since I'd consider him the ultimate measuring stick for babyfaces. He has the potential to be very similar in style, but in ability, thats something we'll only find out when he gets a run of matches as a babyface.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Like I said, if he worked very hard, it is very possible. I only used Ricky Steamboat since I'd consider him the ultimate measuring stick for babyfaces. He has the potential to be very similar in style, but in ability, thats something we'll only find out when he gets a run of matches as a babyface.


Fair enough. Steamboat is obviously for US wrestling one of the go to guys in terms of a compelling and endearing babyface. I doubt Ziggler could ever reach that level, if only because even the likes of Matt Hardy & Christian haven't come close to reaching the heights of Steamboat and both are them are truly exceptional babyface workers in their own right. That being said, not everyone has to equal or surpass to become an adaptable and worthwhile babyface worker, so in that regard Ziggler has a lot of potential to develop and progress up the card.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Been trying to check up on more Steamboat singles in recent days. Don't suppose you've got any recommendations, lets say, pre 1986? Excluding Flair series. I have been trying to look for his series with Blanchard. Only stumbled across their Television Championship match at Starrcade '84 (***1/2).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That Starrcade match is great. Big fan of it.

Erm only other match that immediately jumps out is the Final Conflict '83 tag w/ Youngblood vs Slaughter & Kernodle. He has some matches in Japan with one being against Flair iirc from '84. But I'm drawing a blank otherwise. '89 vs Luger and Funk are both two very good matches and his '91 return tag in WCW w/ Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko is at worst a top 10 tag in US history.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Absolutely adored the FC Steel Cage match, watched it a couple of nights ago. Also found their match against the Briscos at Starrcade '83 a very good match.

I guess for better runs with Steamboat, I need to jump ahead to WCW Saturday Night and their PPVs in the late 80s/90s?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Have ADR/Swagger open the show . Del Rio wins but Swagger or BIG E lays him out . Ziggler wins via a lot of shenanigans to keep ADR strong.

Thus turning Jericho/Ziggler into a title match which Ziggler will win clean. Bam new champion who just beat one of the greats.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The pop ziggler will get at wrestlemania will be INSANE. Bigger than del rios pop that's for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pre-86 Steamboat match that came to my mind first is again Bob Orton Jr (Landover 7/20/85). Was the match where I appreciated how good Bob can be too.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Big Z said:


> Pre-86 Steamboat match that came to my mind first is again Bob Orton Jr (Landover 7/20/85). Was the match where I appreciated how good Bob can be too.


Any place for that match? In the handful of tag matches I've seen of Bob Orton, I've enjoyed his offence and style. Would be great to see him in a one on one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea if it's online. Have a look, if you can't find it I can rip it from my Steamboat comp and upload it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Absolutely adored the FC Steel Cage match, watched it a couple of nights ago. Also found their match against the Briscos at Starrcade '83 a very good match.
> 
> I guess for better runs with Steamboat, I need to jump ahead to WCW Saturday Night and their PPVs in the late 80s/90s?


Yeah his return in '89 and eventual WCW career leading into the end of '94 has a lot of gems. He's a big part in the Dangerous Alliance vs Sting's Squadron feud throughout '92, has the aforementioned 11/19/91 tag w/ Dustin that is sensational, works great with Austin in their singles matches, has umpteen tags and multi-man tags with the Starrcade 12/28/92 tag w/ Douglas vs Windham & Pillman & the Saturday Night 5/23/92 6 man w/ Dustin & Nikita Koloff standing out. His matches in '93 vs Vader, particularly the Human Cage (Lumberjack) bout as well as his matches vs Regal particularly from Fallbrawl '93 are all excellent as well. That's without mentioning the Spring Stampede and Saturday Night '94 matches vs Flair continuing on from their '89 series, the Funk & Luger singles matches from '89 as well as the tag w/ Eddie Gilbert vs Flair & Windham from 1/23/89. 

Sure Cal will be able to supply some additional NWA/WCW matches that I might have neglected to mention.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Gave a check up on both Youtube and Dailymotion for Steamboat/Orton, it was there. Cheers  Will give it a watch.

Are matches like Funk in '89 on PPVs/TV shows, or are they more obscure house show matches? In writing, seems a perfect match for that era. I have seen a lot of bad, terrible Luger. Having read about his '89 run several times, I'll look forward to seeing his match against Flair at Starrcade 88, and that Steamboat match/series. Cheers for the help.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I heard about a pretty darn good Luger/Flair match that went 45minutes, when/where was that, anyone know?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That's WrestleWar 90 you're thinking about.

Flair/Luger's matches at Great American Bash 88, Starrcade 88 (their best match), and Starrcade 89 are great too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> That's WrestleWar 90 you're thinking about.
> 
> Flair/Luger's matches at Great American Bash 88, Starrcade 88 (their best match), and Starrcade 89 are great too.


Ah thanks alot mate


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I tried looking for the match on youtube but I only found GAB 88. 







Maybe someone here can help you with WrestleWar.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I tried looking for the match on youtube but I only found GAB 88.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NP mate, appreciate your help, thx.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I just think Ziggler is being wasted right now, jobbing week in and week out. Him cashing in and winning the title @ Mania (has that ever happened with the briefcase?) would instantly restore his credibility. Would also breathe some life into the SD main event scene.


This. And cashing in on Del Rio won't hurt him at all because he wasn't beaten in a fair match. They could easily transition into a Del Rio/Ziggler feud after Mania, or go Del Rio/Swagger/Ziggler at Extreme Rules. I'm thinking Swagger might get punished after Mania for his fuck up though, as they couldn't do it now because the feud was already set in place. If Ziggler was World Champ I would watch Smackdown every week.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Gave a check up on both Youtube and Dailymotion for Steamboat/Orton, it was there. Cheers  Will give it a watch.
> 
> Are matches like Funk in '89 on PPVs/TV shows, or are they more obscure house show matches? In writing, seems a perfect match for that era. I have seen a lot of bad, terrible Luger. Having read about his '89 run several times, I'll look forward to seeing his match against Flair at Starrcade 88, and that Steamboat match/series. Cheers for the help.


Funk/Steamboat COTC VII '89 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/Terry+Funk+vs+Ricky+Steamboat/1#video=x7f4lq

Luger is really really great in the Flair matches. Great presence, works himself effortlessly into Flair's formula and more than holds his own as an underrated seller and babyface powerhouse. Think Yeah1993 watched some of his work in the mid 90s and said he still had glimpses of his talent even in his supposed decline phase.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Funk/Steamboat COTC VII '89 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/Terry+Funk+vs+Ricky+Steamboat/1#video=x7f4lq
> 
> Luger is really really great in the Flair matches. Great presence, works himself effortlessly into Flair's formula and more than holds his own as an underrated seller and babyface powerhouse. Think Yeah1993 watched some of his work in the mid 90s and said he still had glimpses of his talent even in his supposed decline phase.


Cheers for the link, luckily I also have that show/match in the CotC compilation I have downloaded. Should get round to it in the next week or two.

Gave watchings to Bob Orton & Ricky Steamboat, Rick Rude & Billy Jack Haynes (Battle of the Belts 1985).

Both of them get ***1/2. Really enjoyed the pacing of the former. Bob Orton's intelligent psychology and use of the brace would of always come back to bite him, fitting finish. For the latter, my type of match. Heavy hitting, two big powerhouses in a battle of strength. Offence from Rude was borderine fantastic. Haynes took it all well, but his offence was very forgettable. Next up is Ric Flair up against Wohoo McDaniels, two out of three falls match. BotB 85, also.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Next up is Ric Flair up against Wohoo McDaniels, two out of three falls match. BotB 85, also.


Outstanding match. Their Mid South encounter in 7/12/85 is excellent as well, but the 9/2/85 match from BOTB is their best by far and likely a top 5 Flair defence ever. I wrote about it sometime a while back, be prepared for long thoughts but its an astounding match.

Blanchard/Garvin Worldwide 5/3/86 is also a sensational match and a personal favourite of mine from the decade. Not sure if a link is about, but if you can find one/ask someone to provide you with one its a sensational match I imagine you'd enjoy. Pure old school simplicity worked to perfection.



> *Ric Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel, NWA Title, CWF Battle Of The Belts, 2/3 falls, (9/2/85)*
> 
> First fall here is really really terrific stuff. Probably one of my most favourite falls in any 2/3 falls match I've seen. Flair is ruling it as the biggest piece of trash to hit Florida and really comes across like some Actor who got nominated for 1 Oscar who suddenly thinks he's Robert Duval. He's pushing the ref and lecturing him on how to do his job, jostling with fans who think he sucks and there's this great spot where Flair's working over the left arm and yells at the camera man to get out of his face and he won't warn him again. Aside from Flair kicking ass as a character the in ring work is superb. They build McDaniel's chops to be lethal and the early opening has Flair constantly getting bested in the chop exchanges and regularly bailing to the floor. This all builds to McDaniel having an answer for everything Flair throws and a drop toe hold leads to him working over Flair's leg. Flair lets out an epic scream and despite the hold only beinng used for maybe 45 seconds Flair sells the leg better than most guys will sell 5 minute workovers these days. He limps after each step, takes his time in the corner to pull himself up, shakes the leg when he's working over McDaniel's arm and there's this amazing spot where he snapmares McDaniel, deliberately gets off the ground carefully and then misses an elbow drop instead of the patented kneedrop I was expecting.
> 
> ...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> This. And cashing in on Del Rio won't hurt him at all because he wasn't beaten in a fair match. They could easily transition into a Del Rio/Ziggler feud after Mania, or go Del Rio/Swagger/Ziggler at Extreme Rules. I'm thinking Swagger might get punished after Mania for his fuck up though, as they couldn't do it now because the feud was already set in place. If Ziggler was World Champ I would watch Smackdown every week.


I'm down to see Del Rio/Ziggler on PPV. They've faced each other three times already this year and they're wrestling again on this week's Smackdown but whatever. Come to think of it Extreme Rules fits perfectly so they can add a gimmick to freshen it up. 

Cena/Rock/Punk is probably happening at Extreme Rules. That could be fun but the sooner Rock is gone the better. Much more interested in how they position Sheamus, Henry and Bryan post-Mania.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Desecrated* I managed to find Blanchard/Garvin (5/3/86) immediately after I made my last post. Here's the link for you and anyone else interested in watching it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv_GWDISWuo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inegKLiWmII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQDdHg7ABOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEeHICC3Gww

One of the best matches from the entire decade to me personally.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Much more interested in how they position Sheamus, Henry and Bryan post-Mania.


Sheamus - Continue to be the workhorse. Depending on what he does @ Mania (vs Barrett for IC or vs Shield) he will either carry the IC belt for a bit or wrap up The Shield mini-feud and potentially challenge for the title. If Punk wins the title back from Cena sometimes after Mania (Punk will need a big win after losing to Rock 2x, Cena cleanly, Taker @ Mania), I can see a Punk/Sheamus title feud taking place.

Henry - Hopefully splitting a few wigs on the way to a WHC reign.

Bryan - Moving on from the comedy tag to embark on a major solo push. Would love a Cesaro/Bryan midcard feud.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Excellent.  Actually I'll give that a view now, don't have access to Worldwide in '86. Will give my thoughts on it briefly.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Any overlooked Regal WCW/WWE matches someone wants to point me to?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I watched a Regal/Psychosis (sp?) match from Nitro 96 (?) the other day. Pretty nifty (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Regal/Punk MSG House Show 12/30/08
Regal/Psicosis Nitro 12/16/96
Regal/Edge series according to Cal
Regal/Benoit Velocity July '05
Regal/Zbyszko Saturday Night 5/28/94
Regal/Mysterio Nitro 2/10/97
Regal/Tony Pena Nitro 11/25/96
Regal/Johnny B Badd COTC XXV 11/10/93

I know you asked for WCW/WWE specifically, but Hashimoto/Regal (4/16/95) is sensational and a top 3 Regal match ever. Maybe his best ever depending on how much people adore the Uncensored '96 bout vs Finlay.

Edit, actually watched something WWE related for the first time in forever:

*Evan Bourne vs John Morrison, ECW (4/14/09)*

Bossy little match here. Bourne continues to demonstrate his immense potential as a babyface worker and remind us why its a tragedy his backstage attiude is supposedly piss poor to keep getting suspensions on top of his injury woes. He bumps and eats everything here majestically and times his offence remarkably well and has the crowd constantly invested in everything he does. The apron bump off the leg sweep was a great transition spot and Bourne typically took it in disgusting fashion on top of the stiff as heck running knee from Morrison. Speaking of Morrison when in the heck did he become this violent? There's one spot on the floor where he channels Tenryu and punts Bourne seemingly in the eye. Yes I just compared John Morrison to Genichiro Tenryu and I don't feel like a twonk talking a load of cobblers, what pray tell is this?. Morrison grounds and controls Bourne well with a predominant focus on the neck and upper body. Striker made a nice observation in pointing out a subtle visual where Morrison deliberately turns Bourne's head away from his body to further injure it when going for a cover after the apron bump. Bourne's hope spots being cut off by Morrison are well timed and build well into the eventual comeback which has a couple of strong nearfalls and a good finish to protect Bourne in defeat. Great match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Spoiler:  Garvin/Blanchard



One minute in, and I am sold. Perfect intensity on the lock up at the start. The aggression from Garvin is one of the lost beauties of wrestling in the current day as he goes delivers that headbutt to Blanchard. Another thing I adore about the NWA right here, the headlocks and body working on early in the match isn't used as a rest holds and breaks. Exchange leading to the shoulder/shoulder pin made me 'mark' out a little bit. Good brawling exchange shows the determination and intensity in Garvin. The beating Blanchard is taking makes you wonder if this match is going to go on very long. The methodical approach by Garvin to gas down Blanchard was looking great.

Ah schucks, a interval. Come back to see that Blanchard has Garvin down in the headlock. Would of liked to see how they got to that. Back to Garvin in control after a few minutes. I adore his kicks. About 4-5 minutes on, the beating Blanchard is taking is just ridiculous, and perfect. J.J Dillon seeing that his man is in trouble, helping him out. Garvin's toe hold, terrific. . 'GARVIN, DON'T DO THAT', as he wraps Blanchard's legs around the post. Perfect. With that damage to the knee, any mere man would struggle to stand. But Blanchard manages. He sells it perfectly.

Interval, back with Blanchard back in the match, limping around throwing punches and wearing down Garvin. Great urgency, Garvin still has a bit too much in the bank to stay down for too long. Already back in control, lines up the piledriver but Blanchard has the urgency to fight out of it. Downside is he seems to stop focusing on the leg, and just try to break Blanchard. Have I mentioned that after, what must be 30 minutes, the pacing of the match is still fast and intense? Don't think I have, and it deserves a mention. 'Can't use that right hand now', throws a right handed punch a second later. Sells it perfectly. Blanchard doesn't seem to be favouring the leg anymore, after that Atomic Drop. What a great counter, grabs Blanchard in a hug, drops him and into that submission I have forgotten the original name for. A crab stretch? No idea. Stomps, stomps, stomps, stomps. Hand injury comes back into play, and loses some ground. Manages to prevent Blanchard's fight back though.

Interval, and again, back with Blanchard in control, and another Garvin fightback. I guess babyface comebacks in wrestling after intervals will stay the same. Garvin's offence is just perfect. Such great use of his punches, his stomps, kicks, headbutts. What a fighter. And they all murder Blanchard every time. Sliding pin, actually thought it was over there with the way the commentators sold that. The headbutt after the refree spot, oh god. Finish coming up, brass knuckles on both by Dusty Rhodes and J.J Dillon,
..
..
And Garvin connects! Pin, and he wins. But its not over. Is that bloody Earl Hebner. The bastard. If it isn't Earl, he is still a bastard. Can't tell through the video quality. Spots the brass knuckles on Garvin, and hes disqualified. Heartwrenching finish, but absolutely perfect. What a war. Flawless, perfect pace, vicious match.



Not sure how much I can thank you for this match. Absolutely terrific contest by two men in their prime. Definately fitting on a ***** imo. Reeled in at the start, and never had the desire to lose my concentration.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Great write up mate, I don't do 'ratings' per se anymore but back when I did that was as close to ***** as it got without actually being one. Absolutely adore everything including the finish which is how you execute that sort of crowd deflating finish well to create the desired reaction instead of cheating them out of a conclusive finish. My thoughts are here:



> *Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin, NWA National Heavyweight Championship, Worldwide, (5/3/86)*
> 
> This is a spectacular TV match, arguably up there with some of the greatest televised matches from any era in any promotion. It had an organic Benoit vs Finlay feel in how everything was a struggle, every hold felt important and dramatic and the crowd was magnificent.
> 
> ...


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Got to echo more on the crowd. It was absolutely perfect, and every exchange felt like it came from a war of good and evil. The Horsemen roots in the match must definately help it. I am not sure if it was mentioned, probably was since the commentators tend to blend into the background noise, but I was unaware of the 'problems' Garvin had going into the match with the hand. Makes his determination and resilience seem like a feat of human strength and conditioning.

Every fightback by Garvin was perfect, using his head and knees as a weapon to keep Blanchard down. Having watched a lot of WWE style matches, seeing babyfaces go on the offence for large periods of the match is a very weird thing for me to see. Refreshing change from the clichés. 

I probably need to allow the match to settle down more in my head, I am running out of words to use.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah whilst the conventional formula dictates a babyface work from underneath typically, in order to allow the heel to perform and induce their theatrics to rile a crowd up and then feed the babyface more and more offence to build the heat and lead into the dynamic comeback, the likes of Blanchard and Flair in particular were very astute at giving their opponents the majority of a match during that time and reversing the story to make the babyface look strong and crucially give Blanchard and Flair credibility in having the resiliency to overcome a beating, whilst making sure to be as sleazy and detestable when on offence to ensure the crowd never cheered them for their tenacity.

Just wait until you see Flair/Wahoo from Battle of the Belts. You're in for a treat to see two extraordinary matches on the same day  .


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I'll be saving that for tomorrow morning. Slightly burned out now . The reviews I saw on 411 earlier indicated a fantastic match too. Tomorrow should be Dusty/Flair, their 2nd match at Starrcade, the Magnum/Blanchard I Quit at 'cade and that BotB match. After that, hopefully find a footing on watching more weekly shows.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *Evan Bourne vs John Morrison, ECW (4/14/09)*
> 
> Bossy little match here. Bourne continues to demonstrate his immense potential as a babyface worker and remind us why its a tragedy his backstage attiude is supposedly piss poor to keep getting suspensions on top of his injury woes. He bumps and eats everything here majestically and times his offence remarkably well and has the crowd constantly invested in everything he does. The apron bump off the leg sweep was a great transition spot and Bourne typically took it in disgusting fashion on top of the stiff as heck running knee from Morrison. Speaking of Morrison when in the heck did he become this violent? There's one spot on the floor where he channels Tenryu and punts Bourne seemingly in the eye. Yes I just compared John Morrison to Genichiro Tenryu and I don't feel like a twonk talking a load of cobblers, what pray tell is this?. Morrison grounds and controls Bourne well with a predominant focus on the neck and upper body. Striker made a nice observation in pointing out a subtle visual where Morrison deliberately turns Bourne's head away from his body to further injure it when going for a cover after the apron bump. Bourne's hope spots being cut off by Morrison are well timed and build well into the eventual comeback which has a couple of strong nearfalls and a good finish to protect Bourne in defeat. Great match.


Love your Bourne/Morrison write up. As a huge Morrison fan, I'm going to have to give that match a watch. I remember our debate a couple weeks ago about Morrison's offense not being all that captivating, but I felt his heel stuff was executed with a hint of violence (mainly the running knee) and once he transitioned into the role of a babyface I think the flashiness took over.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I'll be saving that for tomorrow morning. Slightly burned out now . The reviews I saw on 411 earlier indicated a fantastic match too. Tomorrow should be Dusty/Flair, their 2nd match at Starrcade, the Magnum/Blanchard I Quit at 'cade and that BotB match. After that, hopefully find a footing on watching more weekly shows.


Oh man, Magnum/Tully is sensational and the best I Quit match ever. Heck depending on The Final Conflict tag its a pretty reasonable assumption its the best Cage match in history. So violent, so raw, so emotional and so simple and basic. Harrowingly violent and a sensational spectacle and culmination of a bitter and personal feud.

Flair/Wahoo may be even better, thought the context and structure is so different its hard to objectively compare them with each other. Its a typical Flair formula implemented by a powerful Wahoo performance, a far more violent and physical affray than you associate with Flair and a rabid crowd who become unglued for everything Wahoo does.

You seen much of Memphis & Mid South btw? There's some absolute gems I'm sure you could appreciate if you haven't already been exposed to them.



The Lady Killer said:


> Love your Bourne/Morrison write up. As a huge Morrison fan, I'm going to have to give that match a watch. I remember our debate a couple weeks ago about Morrison's offense not being all that captivating, but I felt his heel stuff was executed with a hint of violence (mainly the running knee) and once he transitioned into the role of a babyface I think the flashiness took over.


 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/evan+bourne+vs+john+morrison/1#video=x90a8k

Yeah Morrison shocked me here. I mean a feckin' punt to the eye and what appeared to be a kick to the chin that should have shattered Bourne's face and made him an eternal hiedously deformed man. Where the heck he was keeping that reckless abandon for his opponent's health I have no idea, but if he started punting people in the eye on a regular basis I'd be forced to declare a case of man love for him.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Unfortunately I think two those companies are a bit far in the future. Will probably check out AWA after finishing up around WCW 94-96.

Are there places to brush up on the Magnum/Tully feud? Not too fussed if its in writing or video. Would definately like to see into the more psychological side of their rivalry.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Unfortunately I think two those companies are a bit far in the future. Will probably check out AWA after finishing up around WCW 94-96.
> 
> Are there places to brush up on the Magnum/Tully feud? Not too fussed if its in writing or video. Would definately like to see into the more psychological side of their rivalry.


Fair enough. There are some sensational brawls and angles that take place and its personally my absolute favourite era of wrestling by a comfortable distance (moreso Memphis, but its close). I'm gonna be buying the AWA set this week when I place an order to Cal & Seabs respectively, so I'll alert you to any gems in the near future.

http://www.oowrestling.com/columns/circa/20041217.shtml

That looks like a decent summarisation of the characters of both men and a basic overview of their feud. I can't recall too much in the way of specifics and angles, just that it was a long running feud and Magnum was positioned as the heroic babyface and Tully the despicable heel the crowd hated beyond belief. Arguably one of the greatest midcard/upper card feuds in wrestling history and which has one of the most sensational feud enders as well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Any overlooked Regal WCW/WWE matches someone wants to point me to?


v Barry Windham 4/18/93
v Ricky Steamboat 8/1/93, 8/8/93, 9/23/93 (the first two kind of disappointed me but maybe you'll like 'em more. I LOOOOOOVE the September one)
v Too Cold Scopio (Clash something)
v Terry Taylor 1/1/94
w/ Austin v Steamboat/Arn. This happened....sometimes in 1994. Arn was babyface I guess, so early-mid 94.
v Larry Zbyszko Slamboree 94, Clash of the Champions 6/23/94, Pro 6/25/94 (not overlooked depending on who you talk to, but the 5/28/94 in particular is one of the better matches in WCW history and not many people mention it...so I'm calling it overlooked. WOOLCOCK put that one down already so here are the OTHER THREE~! :hb)
v Flair (the whole Queensbury Cup whatever it was from 1994. They have Five matches stretched out over five weeks or something)
v Finlay 4/13/96 (People know about the PLB, but I like this one a SHIT TON)
v Sting GAB 96
v Ultimo Dragon Slamboree 97
v Chris Benoit 6/14/01 (Really good for five minutes IIRC)
v JBL (Smackdown in England 2006......the date escapes me, sometimes in April/May)
v Randy Orton 4/14/08
v Christian 8/25/09, Breaking Point 09, 11/10/09, 1/14/10, 1/19/10
v Evan Bourne 4/3/10
v Goldust 8/12/10 (and whatever else matches they had in 2009/2010 but I remember this being the standout....if this is even right date)
v DH Smith Superstars 12/10


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 covered the ones I'd overlooked. Goldust/Regal have a gem of a match on 8/26/10 from Superstars. It goes 13 minutes and I remember it being great, but they had a mini series so its possible another match might have eclipsed it. Only reason I remember the date is that Masters/Mcintyre is the main event of the same show and its one of the better Superstar shows because of these 2 matches.

Also, this great match vs Bourne from the Wrestlemania Revenge Tour in Romania from 2011:






Regal is an amazing pantomine villain, there's some great chain wrestling and a classic heel in peril WOS comedy spot I adore and a really well worked middle and finishing stretch with the crowd being really receptive of everything that's happening. Blows away a Bryan/Regal match from Austria I saw.

Speaking of Regal/Bryan, their December '10 match from Raw was pretty great for 6 or so minutes. Well worth a watch. I'd nominate the Ambrose matches from '11 & '12 in FCW, but I'm assuming you might already be aware of those two. If not, WATCH THEM.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In celebration of Taker being 'back', im about to watch vs HBK (WM25) - you want starz?? - *********************************************


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Fair enough. There are some sensational brawls and angles that take place and its personally my absolute favourite era of wrestling by a comfortable distance (moreso Memphis, but its close). I'm gonna be buying the AWA set this week when I place an order to Cal & Seabs respectively, so I'll alert you to any gems in the near future.
> 
> http://www.oowrestling.com/columns/circa/20041217.shtml
> 
> That looks like a decent summarisation of the characters of both men and a basic overview of their feud. I can't recall too much in the way of specifics and angles, just that it was a long running feud and Magnum was positioned as the heroic babyface and Tully the despicable heel the crowd hated beyond belief. Arguably one of the greatest midcard/upper card feuds in wrestling history and which has one of the most sensational feud enders as well.


What were the rosters of Memphis and Mid-South like? The regulars I remember were DiBiase/Duggan/maybe Hansen and Brody? from Mid-South, and I can only think of Lawler from Memphis.

I look forward to the AWA feedback. I only really know of Curt Hennig, Adrian Adonis & Nick Bockwinkel wrestling in the fed, but everything about it indicated they were putting on solid matches on a regular basis.

Enjoyed the article, seems the Starrcade match is all about Blanchard's come uppance. Had to avoid the last bit, spoilers.  But, seems pretty much the typical heel vs babyface. Regardless, I look forward to the match a bit more from it. Going to hit the hay, to get the full concentration of watching the matches before I get hassled by people tomorrow.  Cheers for the feedback and matches though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> What were the rosters of Memphis and Mid-South like? The regulars I remember were DiBiase/Duggan/maybe Hansen and Brody? from Mid-South, and I can only think of Lawler from Memphis.
> 
> I look forward to the AWA feedback. I only really know of Curt Hennig, Adrian Adonis & Nick Bockwinkel wrestling in the fed, but everything about it indicated they were putting on solid matches on a regular basis.
> 
> Enjoyed the article, seems the Starrcade match is all about Blanchard's come uppance. Had to avoid the last bit, spoilers.  But, seems pretty much the typical heel vs babyface. Regardless, I look forward to the match a bit more from it. Going to hit the hay, to get the full concentration of watching the matches before I get hassled by people tomorrow.  Cheers for the feedback and matches though.


Memphis: Lawler, Dundee, Mantell, Ricky Morton, Moondogs, Fabulous Ones, Bigleow (short appearances), Austin Idol, Tommy Rich, Terry Funk (predominantly in the Lawler feud in '81), Flair (short appearances to defend vs Koko Ware & the classic Lawler angle in summer of '82), Savage, Koko, Bockwinkel/Martel/Hennig as touring AWA champions, Jerry Blackwell, Bobby Eaton, Jimmy Hart etc.

Mid South: Duggan, Dibiase, Magnum TA, Flair, Wahoo, Rock n Roll Express, Midnight Express, Buzz Sawyer, Junkyard Dog, Butch Reed, Dick Murdoch, Chavo Guerrero (Chavo Classic in WWE), Mr Olympia, Steve Williams, Terry Taylor, Jake Roberts, The Fantastics, Matt Borne (Doink) etc.

Stacked with talent. Wonderful angles, intense and well executed brawls with magnificent performances, nuclear crowds, a plethora of beloved babyfaces and detestable heels, an array of quality segments and promos. Just chaotic and at times surreal wrestling but held together by cohesive, logical and well developed feuds with satisfying payoffs.

No worries about the match recommendations and links. Happy to help  .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hansen and Brody weren't regulars for pretty much anything in the US. Brody was a guy who toured around where he wanted and held up promoters for more money, and Hansen was pretty much Japan-only past 81 other than his AWA run in 86 and his WCW run in 90-91. Hansen showed up in Memphis in 83 and had a pretty great feud with Austin Idol, though.

It's really hard to say what the 'rosters' were, but regulars/semi-regulars (depending on your term of 'regulars...these guys popped up a bunch on either the DVDVR sets or just random shows n shit) include

CWA: Lawler, Bill Dundee, Koko Ware, Bobby Eaton, Austin Idol, Buddy Landel, Dutch Mantel, Wayne Ferris, Eddie Gilbert, Tommy Rich, Kamala, Bam Bam Bigelow, Kevin Sullivan, the Fantastics, the Moondogs, Adrian Street, Randy Savage, , Norvell Austin, Jeff Jarrett, Phil Hickerson, etc.

Mid-South: Duggan, DiBiase, JYD, the Guerreros, Butch Reed, the Midnight Express, RNR Express, Magnum TA, the Fantastics, Chris Adams, Terry Taylor, the One Man Gang, Dick Murdoch, Ric Flair, Jake Roberts, Steve Williams, Terry Gordy, Bubba Rogers, Buzz Sawyer, Dick Slater, etc.

EDIT~~~~WISH I MENTIONED MR. OLYMPIA FFS. WOOLCOCK GIVIN' MR OLYMPIA A SHOUT-OUT MAKES UP FOR THE FACT I FORGOT MR. OLYMPIA. *MR. OLYMPIA*



WOOLCOCK said:


> Goldust/Regal have a gem of a match on 8/26/10 from Superstars. It goes 13 minutes and I remember it being great, but they had a mini series so its possible another match might have eclipsed it. Only reason I remember the date is that Masters/Mcintyre is the main event of the same show and its one of the better Superstar shows because of these 2 matches.


Ah, THAT'S the one I meant. I was thinking of the date for Masters/Chavo......for some reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Regal/Punk MSG House Show 12/30/08
> Regal/Psicosis Nitro 12/16/96
> Regal/Edge series according to Cal
> Regal/Benoit Velocity July '05
> ...


I <3 you. Moment the match finished all I had in my head was: "which one did I love more - Regal/Hash or Regal/Finlay from Uncensored?"

Oh, and Regal/Goldust from Superstars in 2010 only goes 6 minutes. So it emphases on the GREAT work to a higher degree considering how little time they had.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ya know, I still don't think I've seen Regal/Hash yet. Apparently there's another one from the year after that Regal himself was asking for links for it on his Twitter a while back, but nobody could find it .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT~~~~WISH I MENTIONED MR. OLYMPIA FFS. WOOLCOCK GIVIN' MR OLYMPIA A SHOUT-OUT MAKES UP FOR THE FACT I FORGOT MR. OLYMPIA. *MR. OLYMPIA*
> 
> Ah, THAT'S the one I meant. I was thinking of the date for Masters/Chavo......for some reason.


I watched the Olympia/Chavo match from 6/24/83 recently so he stuck out to me immediately. Dude looked immense in that match taking everything like a champ.

Ha I was unsure on whether you'd unearthed a gem in the series I'd overlooked, least I can rest easy knowing I saw the best of the bunch  .



HayleySabin said:


> I <3 you. Moment the match finished all I had in my head was: "which one did I love more - Regal/Hash or Regal/Finlay from Uncensored?"
> 
> Oh, and Regal/Goldust from Superstars in 2010 only goes 6 minutes. So it emphases on the GREAT work to a higher degree considering how little time they had.


Yeah its immensely difficult to separate. The spectacle and presentation of Regal in the Hashimoto bout makes me lean closer to that match, but then fuck Uncensored vs Finlay is a top 5 match in WCW history and is just sensational. So violent, so intricate and just the epitome of their style and talent.

I could have sworn the 8/26 encounter went at least 10 minutes? If it were under than then fuck me they crammed a lot in and paced it brilliantly to make everything feel fluid and not rushed.



Big Z said:


> Ya know, I still don't think I've seen Regal/Hash yet. Apparently there's another one from the year after that Regal himself was asking for links for it on his Twitter a while back, but nobody could find it .


Its on Dailymotion (4/16/95). I think you said you prefer not watching stuff of Dailymotion/Youtube so I'm assuming there's got to be some techy gizmo to download it off there so you can watch it how you prefer to. Its sensational though. Cody's rating gave me a broner (unintentionally man inspired boner, damn right its a Californication reference muthafuckaaaaaa) when I saw it. The sly fox fooled me in just how much he adored it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Ya know, I still don't think I've seen Regal/Hash yet. Apparently there's another one from the year after that Regal himself was asking for links for it on his Twitter a while back, but nobody could find it .


9/21/96, which I like A LOT. I should get it up sometime.

edit - almost CERTAIN there's a longer Regal/Goldust. So, so, so certain.

EDIT IN AN EDIT : from prowrestlingwiki:

Superstars 8/26/10: William Regal defeated Goldust (10:30)
Superstars 9/23/10: Goldust (w/ Aksana) defeated William Regal (11:00)

do they only show six minutes of these? REALLY?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have a Regal comp, it's on there . Ain't no need for that there streaming shite for Mr Cal. And speaking of Cali, you seen the new ep? I mentioned it on the other place .

Regal Vs Steamboat Fall Brawl 93 and Vs Vader from SN (on some DVD set out there) are my picks for 2 of Regal's top matches not involving Finlay or Benoit.

Edit: Yeah, the other Hash/Regal match is out there? Nice. Don't think that one is on the Regal comp is it?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I legit forgot about Californication today, gonna give it a watch in a bit. Got one WOS match to cover, a NOAH tag for the poll that only interests me because its Kawada in '09 and I want to see if Kawada is as good in it as others say he is & 2 episodes minimum of Its Always Sunny. How the feck do I keep leaving all this stuff to last minute?

I so wanted to make an innuendo remark about Yeah1993 'needing to get it up sometime', but then it occurred to me he now stands in the way of me seeing Hashimoto/Regal II and suddenly restraint and maturity appeared a wiser option.

Btw Yeah1993, Seabs posted a review of an Indy show today in the Indy DVD topic in OW and Masters supposedly had a stellar match on it. That both brought a smile to my face as well as regret when it hit me we should be getting these matches on a semi regular at the minimum basis in WWE if they weren't retarded idiots pissing away great talent.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Edit: Yeah, the other Hash/Regal match is out there? Nice. Don't think that one is on the Regal comp is it?


Don't know why, but it isn't on the Regal comp. It's on the 96 yearbook.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge vs Owen Hart - 27th September 1998 - ***3/4*

Fun match here. Edge is the young rookie in this match facing a veteran in Owen Hart. They play out the rookie vs veteran nicely with Edge upstaging Owen on many occasions to his surprise, pulling out moves like hurricanrana's that you never really saw Edge do. Match is very back and forth and it puts over the young Edge well, and the finish comes when Christian at ringside who the commentators were referring to as a fan (I guess this was Christian's first appearance in the WWE) distracts Edge and Owen Hart rolls up for the win. A frustrated Edge chases after Christian into the crowd afterwards.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Sheamus - Continue to be the workhorse. Depending on what he does @ Mania (vs Barrett for IC or vs Shield) he will either carry the IC belt for a bit or wrap up The Shield mini-feud and potentially challenge for the title. If Punk wins the title back from Cena sometimes after Mania (Punk will need a big win after losing to Rock 2x, Cena cleanly, Taker @ Mania), I can see a Punk/Sheamus title feud taking place.
> 
> Henry - Hopefully splitting a few wigs on the way to a WHC reign.
> 
> Bryan - Moving on from the comedy tag to embark on a major solo push. Would love a Cesaro/Bryan midcard feud.


Has Punk/Sheamus ever happened? I want to see that.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Has Punk/Sheamus ever happened? I want to see that.


 Twice last year. Once on RAW and once on Main Event.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Has Punk/Sheamus ever happened? I want to see that.




Nope and I agree with you. They would put on GREAT matches. Only problem is punk would bury the holy hell out of him on the mic lol, but id still like to see them fued.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk/Sheamus have had matches on Main Event last year and their mediocre Lumberjack match on Raw


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge vs Lance Storm - IC Title match - Summerslam 2001 - ****1/4*

Edge vs Test - Unification match for the IC and US Titles - Survivor Series 2001 - ***** 

Both matches happened during the Invasion storyline. Edge wins the IC Title in the first match against Lance Storm and unifies the IC and US Titles in his match against Test. Matches were solid, not sure what else to say. 

This Decade of Decadence DVD features Edge in character so it makes for some funny viewing when he pops up in-between matches and talks about how great he is. :lol Heel Edge is awesome.

About to watch Edge vs Mr.Perfect from Sunday Night Heat, how did a match like this end up on Heat?

EDIT: Edge vs Mr. Perfect - Sunday Night Heat - 3rd of March 2002 - **3/4* 

Had potential to be so much more. The match starts off good for the first few minutes, but then they do a spot where Edge misses a spear on Perfect and takes out the referee, was quite funny actually, but then Perfect goes and gets a chair and when he gets back in the ring the ref is up and sees the chair and DQ's him, and Edge spears perfect... A letdown, I was expecting a good match between these two.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> This Decade of Decadence DVD features Edge in character so it makes for some funny viewing when he pops up in-between matches and talks about how great he is. :lol Heel Edge is awesome.


Haha I found that really strange, yet sort of entertaining. But mostly strange.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

That's what happens when you have high expectations for Sunday Night Heat.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Didn't Triple H defend the WHC on Heat against Maven one time?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KidCharlamagne said:


> That's what happens when you have high expectations for Sunday Night Heat.


Heat used to have some good matches but it was mostly for the undercard wrestlers, I was just surprised that a Edge/Perfect match was on Heat.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Opening segment tonight was such garbage. Clearly the WWE don't have a fucking clue how to start the feud, so they just have Punk come out and basically say "I have nothing to do, so Undertaker, let's fight~"

Punk deserves so much better. This 'Mania is just so bad.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^didn't mind it tbh. I prefer a bunch of guys fighting for the right to face Taker to Taker/Punk just happening out of nowhere for no apparent reason.

Looks like we're getting Ryback/Henry at Mania. I'm cool with that. Could be fun to see them slog it out.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm cool with Ryback/Henry as well. And even though Henry's well liked on here, and Ryback isn't, I'm just going to go ahead and say it - Ryback should win. My post on Ryback's WM opponent earlier:



Nostalgia said:


> Big Show or Mark Henry. Regardless of who Ryback faces at Mania, Ryback should win. Ryback needs a meaningful win to regain his momentum after having it destroyed by repeated loses to CM Punk and The Shield. Big Show and Mark Henry are veterans on the verge of retirement, they should put over Ryback.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Agreed. Ryback seriously needs a PPV win or he'll fade into obscurity. Even if it has to be Mark Henry that takes the loss.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm all for Taker/Punk happening, and it's cool they want to do a match to decide who faces Taker, but the way Punk announced he was facing Taker was kind of underwhelming and was exactly as Wrestlinfan35 put. Basically "I lost the title, so now I'll try to end the streak"... second part of his promo about taking something from the fans was good though. However they should've had Punk say something along the lines of:

"When I lost the chance to fight in the main event for my WWE Championship, I realized that it was a sign. A sign that I was meant for something bigger than the WWE Championship, something bigger than beating Cena, something bigger than beating The Rock, something that would never be forgotten and would gain me the respect I deserve that the WWE Championship couldn't bring. At Wrestlemania 29... I will defeat The Undertaker, and be the man to finally end the streak." 

And then he goes into the second part of his promo.

Maybe he'll say all that next week, but we'll see. They do have 4 weeks after this to really build a great program.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The worst part about Taker/Punk has to be Taker's return. What the fuck was that? It was literally just his entrance. He better have some sort of interaction with Punk before the show is done.



Nostalgia said:


> I'm cool with Ryback/Henry as well. And even though Henry's well liked on here, and Ryback isn't, I'm just going to go ahead and say it - Ryback should win. My post on Ryback's WM opponent earlier:


Agreed. As much as I'd like to see Henry go over Ryback needs the win a lot more.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think Taker coming out was just to set the stage for Punk. He'll probably come out after the match to confront/chokeslam Punk.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Fuck Ziggler tapping out to The Miz.

Anyway, I find it hard to care for Punk/Taker. When Punk mentioned he wanted to beat The Undertaker at WrestleMania, and how he was going to end the streak, he was just saying the same shit that every other streak victim before him said only with less passion. I just can't really get into it anymore, couldn't with HHH/Taker the last two years. I heard Punk's apparently not really interested in this match and I don't blame him, as he said in his promo he should be main-eventing Mania after the incredible year he's had, 434 days as WWE Champion, longest reigning Champion of the past 25 of years, but yet Punk will be having a match in the middle of the card of this years WrestleMania.... and will once again miss out on a WrestleMania main-event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HENRY GONNA GIVE RYBACK DAT BOY'S GREATEST MATCH EVER.

Pretty obvious we're getting Sheamus/Orton/Big Show vs Shield @ Mania which will probably result in an Orton turn. Shaping up to be a pretty stacked undercard at the moment, especially if we get Jericho-DOLPH and a beast stipulation added to BROCK-GAME.

Can't wait.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> HENRY GONNA GIVE RYBACK DAT BOY'S GREATEST MATCH EVER.
> 
> Pretty obvious we're getting Sheamus/Orton/Big Show vs Shield @ Mania which will probably result in an Orton turn. Shaping up to be a pretty stacked undercard at the moment, especially if we get Jericho-DOLPH and a beast stipulation added to BROCK-GAME.
> 
> Can't wait.


Henry/Ryback won't beat Ryback's match with Team Hell No against The Shield at TLC, and it won't beat Ryback's TLC match with Punk on RAW.

Ziggler/Jericho would be nice, Ziggler cashing at Mania would be great.

A stipulation added to Brock/HHH would get me interested. Something like a Street fight, Last Man Standing, I Quit, with blood, and maybe Triple H's career on the line would be good.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> HENRY GONNA GIVE RYBACK DAT BOY'S GREATEST MATCH EVER.
> 
> Pretty obvious we're getting Sheamus/Orton/Big Show vs Shield @ Mania which will probably result in an Orton turn. Shaping up to be a pretty stacked undercard at the moment, especially if we get Jericho-DOLPH and a *beast stipulation added to BROCK-GAME.*
> 
> Can't wait.


What kinda stip would you prefer? Straight up street fight? Last Man Standing? I Quit?

I think LMS could bring out the best in both. As long as it's brutal and a 'fight' rather than a match.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Awful promo between Rock and Cena. They're just sucking their own dicks right now. Fuck this program.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I knew it was going to suck when Cena started the promo by calling him Dwayne. And I remember reading pages back that KOK has suddenly become a Cena fan? Curious why? Thought you would be annoyed with Cena if anything atm that he's taking Punk's main event spot for a pointless rematch with The Rock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It was actually a pretty good promo. ROCK cut the jokes when the confrontation started and Cena had that "doubt" in his voice when talking about how he needs to win. Sure, he no-sold it the night after last year but the past is the past. Although I know nothing they do will result in anybody in the forums giving them any credit but so what?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I thought the promo was solid. It wasn't anything special but it did what it was suppose to and that's sell the feud going into WrestleMania. The Rock looks cocky whereas Cena looks doubtful that he can beat The Rock. It was a fine promo between the two.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> It was actually a pretty good promo. ROCK cut the jokes when the confrontation started and Cena had that "doubt" in his voice when talking about how he needs to win. Sure, he no-sold it the night after last year but the past is the past. Although I know nothing they do will result in anybody in the forums giving them any credit but so what?


Here's some credit: It was better than all of last year's promos. 

Promo was mediocre though. Rock was his recent-usual corny self at the start, but got better after Cena came out, and Cena's promo was bad not just for Cena's delivery, but the actual content of it was 90% bullshit. It also just went on too long.

What ticks me off though is that they only have 2-3 more Raws together to pull out something great.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Anyone dislike all the pointless repeat matches we get on RAW? Team Hell No vs The Prime Time Players is up next, a match that has happened a few times recently, and we had Ryback vs Cesaro earlier that's happened 3 or 4 times before with the same result every time. WWE doing the old school theme tonight is good, something different, but yet they keep the same old boring matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Last time I can remember hated Cena was 2007, always was indifferent to the guy to be honest. Then he came out with those performances against Punk and Brock and I became a pretty big fan of the guy to be honest, he can go out there and be the best when he truly wants to be.

I'm more pissed off at The Roid being in the main event then John Cena being there, but I understand that it's a business and bar a few years WWE has NEVER put the best possible matches that could tear down the house at Wrestlemania. 

Cena was going to be there regardless ; if The Roid hadn't of reared his head back into the company we wouldn't have been subjected to a pre-determined three year plan with some combination of Rock-Cena (Even Wrestlemania XXVII) ending Wrestlemania in some way, shape or form, forcing the WWE to at least ATTEMPT to create a new star.

With Rock-Cena planning in advance, no matter what ANYBODY DID.... Nobody was going to be elevated to the "next level"..... Punk SOMEHOW did it and deserves his main event, but obviously the company has other plans.

EDIT: Isn't Rock going to be gone for two of the last four RAWS ? As in... It'll actually be worth my time to watch ?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Last time I can remember hated Cena was 2007, always was indifferent to the guy to be honest. Then he came out with those performances against Punk and Brock and I became a pretty big fan of the guy to be honest, he can go out there and be the best when he truly wants to be.


I haven't hated Cena for years, and I'm too indifferent to him mostly, but I've disliked him a bit lately for the pointless Rumble win to set up Rock/Cena again just so he can get his win back. All the attention is back on Cena again when it shouldn't be. 

Cena can put on great performances, but everyone knows that. No one really dislikes Cena for his performances anymore, it's his terribly stale character and the fact that everything has to resolve around him in the main event that people can't stand.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The WWE has forced me to buy into Cena-Mania ever since Rock-Cena was announced and Rock decided he was going to be one of the worst performers in the ring and out that the company has seen in quite some time. I actually think that Rock has disgraced the hell out of the title and I'll give him one thing ; he gave me the ability to actually like Cena. Not indifferent, not so-so.... I actually LIKE Cena's character compared to Rock's "cut shitty promos, wrestle shitty matches" character that refuses to build up anything, as evidenced by the Elimination Chamber Go Home promo which was perhaps the biggest unintentional joke of a promo I've ever seen.

I'll take the guy who will actually wrestle GOOD matches and will fail a ton of the time with his promos but give us some gold every now and then.

Plus, who doesn't want to see the look on every Rock marks face when the day after Wrestlemania comes and Cena is holding the WWE Championship up high with that troll look on his face to a chorus of boos which he shrigs off and says ;

"This is why I love the WWE Universe" :cena3.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I can understand that. I don't mind The Rock though. From a character point of view, I'd take him over Cena. But The Rock's pretty bad in the ring. Rock/Cena last year sucked, both matches with Punk weren't really good. I have no doubt that Rock/Cena II won't be good either and because that match will be 100% closing the show with Cena 100% winning, it annoys me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why I don't have a problem with Cena though. 

Take Rock out of the match and replace it with a good worker like a CM Punk or hell even a BROCK LESNAR and we'd be getting an awesome fucking match that could tear the house down.

Take Cena out of the match and replace him with anybody.. The match would still be atrocious because Rock is the problem when it comes to how good the match can be, and nothing else.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I think the match quality would be better if it was a triple threat because they wouldn't have to rely on The Rock so much. So when Rock gets gassed 5 minutes into it, Cena and Punk could carry the match a bit. 

Damn I wanted Rock/Cena/Punk so much.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> I can understand that. I don't mind The Rock though. From a character point of view, I'd take him over Cena. But The Rock's pretty bad in the ring. Rock/Cena last year sucked, both matches with Punk weren't really good. I have no doubt that Rock/Cena II won't be good either and because that match will be 100% closing the show with Cena 100% winning, it annoys me.


Agree. Rock sucks in the ring nowadays, but at least he'll sell a move every now and then.

EDIT- Not a Cena fan, but looking forward to him burying LOTS of guys after WM and the reaction it's going to get here, especially Punk marks. And I actually like Punk. But the reactions are going to be TOO priceless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Excuse me while I mark the fuck out for THE GAME (seriously, every time his music hits I get chills, same with BROCK at the point in the sense that I don't know how much they both have left).

The WWE will not enter a new era until all of these damn part timers are gone, which is weird because I can't picture a WWE (Wrestlemania season anyways) without them.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

That Triple H promo was actually good. Cena/Rock take notes. Now all they need is a stipulation for me to get interested.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> EDIT- Not a Cena fan, but looking forward to him burying LOTS of guys after WM and the reaction it's going to get here, especially Punk marks. And I actually like Punk. But the reactions are going to be TOO priceless.


Lol. Well he's buried Ziggler already, so here's hoping he and Ziggler don't cross paths for a while.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

1999 Rejex said:


> I thought the promo was solid. It wasn't anything special but it did what it was suppose to and that's sell the feud going into WrestleMania. The Rock looks cocky whereas Cena looks doubtful that he can beat The Rock. It was a fine promo between the two.


Agreed. As usual, a lot of Roid, we saw this last year troll comments and all that other shit but I liked the promo.

The two were serious and intense and this time they actually have a story to build on.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Said this in the official thread, but decent (although still very boring) promo from HHH. I just can't bring myself to care about a feud for another match with him and Brock. I'm still 100% against the match.

But yeah, HHH did okay out there. Better than Rock and Cena's promos.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

People who hate Cena are morons for booing him. They are the absolute DUMBEST FUCKING PEOPLE on planet earth to be honest. In this age any reaction is a good reaction, meaning that every single guy out that audience chanting "Cena Sucks" isn't making a statement ; they're keeping Cena strong. We're not going to need to see a new John Cena or a heel John Cena until the Cena sucks chants and the boos stop, because as of now the Cena haters buy the shows to watch Cena lose (alot of the loyal wrestling fans and "IWC" enthusiasts, 99 percent of which won't stop buying due to love of the product), while the Cena lovers watch the show to watch their hero win. He's the PERFECT guy to lead the company as he gets a response from everybody, whether it be the people who love him, or the idiots who despise him while a majority of them FEED his character.

Shield promos are always awesome, pretty sure they're going over at Mania too (WHICH IS FUCKING AWESOME, potential show stealer right there, card's looking great). Since every big time angle inevitably ends with Cena on top, I'm sure he'll win a fatal four way at Over the Limit against the 3 to retain his title :lol.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH's promo was awesome. Classic GAME. Rock and Cena take notes.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> Said this in the official thread, but decent (although still very boring) promo from HHH. I just can't bring myself to care about a feud for another match with him and Brock. I'm still 100% against the match.
> 
> But yeah, HHH did okay out there. Better than Rock and Cena's promos.


Yeah, the crowd gave no fucks at all during that Triple H promo. Would much rather have seen the Greenwich-snob HHH come out tonight. That would have been fun. 

EDIT- At this point, the heat Cena gets is similar to XPac heat. The older fans just want him off their TV at this point, more than anything else. And the first few years Cena started to get booed absolutely wasn't what he or Vince wanted for his character. Dude was having his "WM moments" where he's supposed to be getting cheered by the entire crowd, and instead he's getting booed by half of the crowd. That's the equivalent of Hulk Hogan in his prime and the prime of Hulk-a-Mania getting booed by half the crowd. An absolute disaster and not the desired response. Must drive Vince nuts.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Shield promos are always awesome, pretty sure they're going over at Mania too (WHICH IS FUCKING AWESOME, potential show stealer right there, card's looking great). Since every big time angle inevitably ends with Cena on top, I'm sure he'll win a fatal four way at Over the Limit against the 3 to retain his title :lol.


If Shield were broken up by then that would actually be an awesome match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MY GOD.

Can somebody give me a decent explanation as to why Ziggler and Bryan are jobbers will AlBORETO-DULL-RIO is the World Heavyweight Champion other than the fact that he's mexican and they need a guy to replace Rey as the main draw in the Latino market ? 

The treatment of those two is actually starting to make me legitimately mad. DOLPH could be a top 5 guy in the company if they treated him right, but unfortunately they've give him the "get out of shitty booking free card" AKA the MITB briefcase to attempt to disguise the fact that he's being portrayed as a pathetic character for the last god knows when.

DOLPH and Jericho better go out there and destroy everything. FUCK.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Speaking of Jericho, where has he been the past couple of weeks? Wasn't on Raw last week, and not tonight either. I know it's probably due to Fozzy, but still, it's WM season, and he has a match WM, right? They only have a few more Raw's to go. Would be nice if he was there, and he's my 2nd favorite of all time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He's on tour with FOZZY, set for a battle of the jobbers at Wrestlemania against Dolph that will end in a 60 minute time limit draw after both men lie separately in the middle of the ring, hoping that they can be the one to do the job.

Hopefully ZIGGLER goes over at Mania and wins the title. I WANT TO SEE DOLPH WALKING OUT OF MANIA WITH THE BELT. THAT IS ALL.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Jericho has more important things to do in his life and he has openly stated that. 

I dont knock him at all.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> He's on tour with FOZZY, set for a battle of the jobbers at Wrestlemania against Dolph that will end in a 60 minute time limit draw after both men lie separately in the middle of the ring, hoping that they can be the one to do the job.
> 
> Hopefully ZIGGLER goes over at Mania and wins the title. I WANT TO SEE DOLPH WALKING OUT OF MANIA WITH THE BELT. THAT IS ALL.


:lol Same here re: Ziggler walking out WM the WHC.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> MY GOD.
> The treatment of those two is actually starting to make me legitimately mad. DOLPH could be a top 5 guy in the company if they treated him right, but unfortunately they've give him the "get out of shitty booking free card" AKA the MITB briefcase to attempt to disguise the fact that he's being portrayed as a pathetic character for the last god knows when.
> 
> DOLPH and Jericho better go out there and destroy everything. FUCK.


Not as mad as me. Seeing my favorite wrestler in the company on the verge of becoming World Champion losing every week, not just loosing but tapping out which makes you look even worse.

My rant on it earlier: 


Nostalgia said:


> It's NOT good. He will be World Champion very soon, and he's tapping out on live TV every week. Losing to Del Rio isn't too bad because Del Rio is the World Champion, but he's tapped out THREE times to Del Rio in the past month. Tapping out three times to the current World Champion when you're the future World Champion makes you look like shit, and now tonight Ziggler taps out to The Miz, a midcarder who's jobbing to the US Champion Cesaro just because they wanted to put over The Miz with Flair.
> 
> Now like Bryan, he could get booked better as World Champion, but knowing Ziggler and how WWE jobs him to everybody, I'm dreading he'll only hold the title a month before losing it. Ziggler should at least hold the World Title a few months though, because if the likes of Daniel Bryan and Jack Swagger can hold it that amount of time, Ziggler should without question.





KingOfKings said:


> Hopefully ZIGGLER goes over at Mania and wins the title. I WANT TO SEE DOLPH WALKING OUT OF MANIA WITH THE BELT. THAT IS ALL.


THIS. (Y)


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Despite being against it, I was :mark:ing hard for that Punk/Undertaker staredown.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Damn, Taker and Punk's staredown ending Raw was epic. Wish they'd done more though, or Taker at least walked all the way to the ring for the staredown. I'm sure we'll hear from Punk and/or Taker next week. Can't wait tbh.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good staredown at the end. The show was average at best though. Was there even a good match? They were all pretty dull. The main event could have been a lot better.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Well Punk/Taker for Mania confirmed. Punk beat Orton clean, don't think Choke2Death liked that one. Rock/Cena Lesnar/HHH and Swagger/Del Rio also happening. 

Looks like Ryback/Henry could happen after their staredown tonight, and The Shield vs Orton, Sheamus and The Big Show could happen. Maybe Ziggler/Jericho too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So right now we're looking at:

Rock/Cena
Taker/Punk
Lesnar/HHH
Shield/Orton-Sheamus-Show
Ryback/Henry
Del Rio/Swagger

I think there's some potential. Taker/Punk, and Shield match should be awesome, with the off chance of Lesnar/HHH joining them if they actually go all-out and don't half-ass a brawl with slow plodding storytelling. Del Rio/Swagger should be very good, Ryback/Henry should be fun, and Rock/Cena should be good as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk pins Orton clean, not that a win over Orton means anything at this point unk2.

Well the following matches are set in stone ;

Rock/Cena
Punk/Taker
Brock/HHH
ADR/Swagger
Shield/Team Orton/Sheamus/Show
Henry/Ryback

with only another 3-4 matches left (they won't go over 10, it isn't the 80s anymore ), what do you think will be used to fill up the last few spots ? Ziggler, Jericho, Bryan, Kane, Barrett, Miz, Cesaro, Truth, Kofi, Rhodes, and Sandow all don't have Mania matches yet so what the hell are they going to do with all of those guys ? Methinks perhaps a four way tag is in effect to we can get Hell No vs Kofi/Truth vs Rhodes Scholars vs Primetime Players all on there for those Mania paydays.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Still not that excited for Mania but Punk/Taker sounds good.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Staredown did nada for me. Doesn't have the big time feel at all to me. 

WM top 3 matches:

Rock/Cena II
HHH/Brock II
Taker/Punk (forget how many matches they had in 2008)

WWE putting on their :troll there. Wow. Living 15 minutes away from Giants Stadium, I sure dodged a bullet deciding not to go.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

While the card and build up has people going crazy, I still think that going to this live would be a cool thing. Being in a live setting, among fans at Mania has to be quite the experience.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Punk pins Orton clean, not that a win over Orton means anything at this point unk2.
> 
> Well the following matches are set in stone ;
> 
> ...


I'll say this for that Mania card: it looks like it has way more big matches than you'd expect WWE could muster these days. If only it weren't eighteen rematches in a row.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Looks like Punk is legitimately pissed at not being in the real main event and having to settle for second place. If I did the impossible and made some of the shit on these three hour RAWs entertaining I'd be legit pissed off at playing second fiddle too.

Fuck Punk having to job to every part timer and big star.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd be happy with Ziggler/Jericho even if it is another rematch. Doesn't look like they're going down that route though.

I'm still not sure whether Bryan and Kane will break up before 'Mania or at the show itself. If before, then obviously they'll face each other.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I thought the Taker/Punk was pretty bone-chilling with Taker's music in the background. Pretty big feel to it if you ask me.

Oh, and Punk pinning Orton was cool. Wanted Sheamus to finally take a pin though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> with only another 3-4 matches left (they won't go over 10, it isn't the 80s anymore ), what do you think will be used to fill up the last few spots ? Ziggler, Jericho, Bryan, Kane, Barrett, Miz, Cesaro, Truth, Kofi, Rhodes, and Sandow all don't have Mania matches yet so what the hell are they going to do with all of those guys ? Methinks perhaps a four way tag is in effect to we can get Hell No vs Kofi/Truth vs Rhodes Scholars vs Primetime Players all on there for those Mania paydays.


Bryan vs Kane could happen, that's a match that's got a fair bit of discussion on here lately. OR they could just have Bryan and Kane defend the tag titles, I like your four way idea, gets more guys on the card and showcases the tag division better. Regardless, I think Team Hell No will be on the card with how much focus WWE have placed on them since they've been together. Ziggler/Jericho could happen as well.

No idea what the two midcard Champions, Barrett and Cesaro will do.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

20-1 sounds good to me. Have Punk gain some recognition back, please. Losing in 4 straight main event type matches is not gonna be good... (not counting this 4 way)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Rawk said:


> I thought the Taker/Punk was pretty bone-chilling with Taker's music in the background. Pretty big feel to it if you ask me.
> 
> Oh, and Punk pinning Orton was cool. Wanted Sheamus to finally take a pin though.


I think Punk pinning Orton was fine. He'd never pinned him clean before (or at all?)

Punk/Sheamus could be a good feud down the line.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> While the card and build up has people going crazy, I still think that going to this live would be a cool thing. Being in a live setting, among fans at Mania has to be quite the experience.


Yeah, the live experience of a WM is definitely awesome. No doubt about that. Even though I'm not going to this one, I've been to others, one even in Cali (WM 12), when I was a kid (have family out there). If it weren't for all the rematches, I'd be going to this one. But considering the cost of a good ticket and the fact that these are all rematches, it's less than appealing to me. And to me it's not worth it to buy a cheap ticket and sit in heaven to watch, even if they were all fresh matches. Rather watch it on TV in that case.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> 20-1 sounds good to me. Have Punk gain some recognition back, please. Losing in 4 straight main event type matches is not gonna be good... (not counting this 4 way)


Can't have that, brother. Especially since I want Taker/Cena for next year.

I'm so ready for Taker/Punk to tear the damn house down at Mania this year!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't know the staredown did nothing for me. Maybe because they were so far apart? Just was like..."alright...cool."


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Clique said:


> Can't have that, brother. Especially since I want Taker/Cena for next year.


Unfortunately, you're right. That's gotta be a lock & it popped in my head when Cena quoted Tyson tonight: "to be the greatest, you have to beat everyone living."

Wasn't feeling anything on tonight's RAW. Whole thing felt so fake and forced, especially the dicksucking that was Cena/Rock.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Cena needs to happen next year, so Punk shouldn't end Taker's streak. If Taker had already faced Cena, well... I'd be okay with it.

Oh, and I'm going to Mania! Got tickets in section 126. Going with my two brothers. Really looking forward to Mania now with Taker/Punk confirmed. I honestly didn't think it would have this much of an effect on me positivity wise, but I went from not wanting to go at all to really wanting to go 100%. I really do hope the match lives up to my expectations.



> I don't know the staredown did nothing for me. Maybe because they were so far apart? Just was like..."alright...cool."


My one complaint was that they both weren't in the ring, but I still think it worked out well and ended up looking epic with Taker's lighting and music. I'm sure we'll have an in-ring staredown a couple of times at least before Mania, unless they go the dreaded Taker/HHH WM27 route where they just have them each cut individual promos until the final Raw before Mania.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I dug 'Taker's coat thing with the spikes tonight. Looked Ministry-ish. Hopefully he's got something special lined up for 'Mania.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I like punk, but he's not big enough to end the streak I'm sorry.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk needs to GTS the shit out of Taker next week. We NEED Punk looking strong going into this one more than anything. If Punk comes out and just gets tombstoned every week then this isn't going to be all that interesting. They can make it OMFGFUCKINGEPIC if they really try though.

Also ; Rock's not going to be here for the next two weeks... WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO DO ?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I like punk, but he's not big enough to end the streak I'm sorry.


Yeah, it's an odd match-up and doesn't get me pumped up at all, and I say this as a fan of both men.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. You should've heard me talking to my girlfriend about The Rock today. We saw a preview for GI Joe Rise of Cobra and she was like, I thought he got back into wrestling? I then preceded to tell her how he comes and goes when he pleases and he ended Punk's amazing streak and her response was "wow... you don't like him very much huh?" 

Fuck you Dwayne. Get off my tv. Take Ryback with you.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I still know that they'll put on a great match though. No doubt in my mind punk/taker will steal the show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Punk needs to GTS the shit out of Taker next week. We NEED Punk looking strong going into this one more than anything. If Punk comes out and just gets tombstoned every week then this isn't going to be all that interesting. They can make it OMFGFUCKINGEPIC if they really try though.


Agreed. Punk needs to not just GTS Taker, but beat him down, even if an attack from behind while Taker's making his entrance. Just something to make Punk look badass. Maybe Taker manages to come back a bit after getting blind-sided, but Punk still GTS' him.

Well no matter how they do it, Punk needs to get one or two-ups on Taker before Mania.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

I say we need Punk/Bryan vs Kane/Taker at Extreme Rules.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hahaha. You should've heard me talking to my girlfriend about The Rock today. We saw a preview for GI Joe Rise of Cobra and she was like, I thought he got back into wrestling? I then preceded to tell her how he comes and goes when he pleases and he ended Punk's amazing streak and her response was "wow... you don't like him very much huh?"
> 
> Fuck you Dwayne. Get off my tv. Take Ryback with you.


THAT'S FUCKING AWESOME. Almost the exact same thing happened with me and my girlfriend a few days after Elimination Chamber when she told me that "alot of people are looking forward to Fast Six, are you? I figured you would be since The Rock is in it".

What happened next was one of the most explosive, venom spewing rants you would have ever heard in your entire life. I mean DAMN, I'm really fortunate that I'm not single at the moment due to the epic rage I went on about Rock-Punk-Cena-Taker-Brock-HHH and how Rock's mere presence is ruining what I love the most :lol.

The worst thing about it all is ; SHE FUCKING KNOWS THAT I HATE THE ROCK AND SAID IT ON PURPOSE BECAUSE SHE KNOWS THAT IT MAKES ME RAGE. BITCH. I'm breaking up with her now, fuck that.

OH, and +1 on the Fuck Dwayne & Ryback comments. If those two abominations disappeared off of the face f the earth I'd be the happiest wrestling fan on the planet, as they're both representations of different things in wrestling that I hate the most.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> THAT'S FUCKING AWESOME. Almost the exact same thing happened with me and my girlfriend a few days after Elimination Chamber when she told me that "alot of people are looking forward to Fast Six, are you? I figured you would be since The Rock is in it".
> 
> What happened next was one of the most explosive, venom spewing rants you would have ever heard in your entire life. I mean DAMN, I'm really fortunate that I'm not single at the moment due to the epic rage I went on about Rock-Punk-Cena-Taker-Brock-HHH and how Rock's mere presence is ruining what I love the most :lol.
> 
> ...


:lmao

Girlfriends these days.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestling fans being filthy nerds who live in their parents' basement and are afraid of the creature known as "woman" is probably the most debunked stereotype ever :lol.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Rock really has people (Internet) spun up these days.

He'd be the biggest heel today, if he was one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rock is the bane of my existence as far as me being a wrestling fan is concerned :lol.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Rock or WWE's booking.

I think its a bit silly to lay it all on one guy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well it was long overdue, but finally CM Punk has pinned Randy Orton cleanly. This is step one in making Punk look strong for Mania. Step two should be a beatdown on Taker, which I can see happening next week.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rock isn't like any other guy in the company, he chooses what he goes out there and says. Since 99.99999 percent of what he says is complete garbage I can't really blame that on the WWE's booking. I would have no problem with BROCK main eventing Mania for the simple fact that he can FUCKING WRESTLE .


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Rock still has a writer he works with though. And he still is going out there having worked with the talent hes doing promos with before hand. Always has been. Not much picking and choosing going on tbh. One guy cant be at fault for what you view is wrong.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> The Rock isn't like any other guy in the company, he chooses what he goes out there and says. Since 99.99999 percent of what he says is complete garbage I can't really blame that on the WWE's booking. I would have no problem with BROCK main eventing Mania for the simple fact that he can FUCKING WRESTLE .


What do you think about Taker performing once a year?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Rock isn't the same guy he once was back in the Attitude Era. He is toned down BIG TIME. Like, it's not even close. Being that promos today are scripted, unlike past eras of wrestling, I wouldn't be surprised at all if what he says is at the very least outlined to him and he has a line which he cannot cross in terms of language and direction of promos. I'm no big fan of The Rock, but at least he hasn't been pushed like God for the past 8-9 years (or even when he was a full timer) in which the show is completely and utterly based around one man. Only one guy has hogged the main event scene for almost a decade straight, and it's not The Rock. Oh yeah, and he sells, even when he's on roids. At least he's a giving guy, unlike some


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> What do you think about Taker performing once a year?


Gave everything he had to the business, comes back once a year and wrestles during the middle portion of the show and completely steals it because he's a fucking all time great WRESTLER. He can keep me entertained and even give me goosebumps when building up to a match, and when the match actually happens it's ALWAYS a debatable MOTY.

Not like he comes out and hogs the actual MAIN EVENT spot for like four years in a row despite the quality of his matches and promos being inferior to nearly everybody on the roster.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> The Rock isn't the same guy he once was back in the Attitude Era. He is toned down BIG TIME. Like, it's not even close. Being that promos today are scripted, unlike past eras of wrestling, I wouldn't be surprised at all if what he says is at the very least outlined to him and he has a line which he cannot cross in terms of language and direction of promos. I'm no big fan of The Rock, but at least he hasn't been pushed like God for the past 8-9 years (or even when he was a full timer). Oh yeah, and he sells, even when he's on roids. At least he's a giving guy, unlike some


I stopped putting the guy to that standard ages ago and accepted him for what he is now. Still has flashes of what made him great here and there but most of the time hes out there simply for the joy of being there. Its like hes a sporadic superstar while being somewhat of a regular. Kind of hard to explain. Most of his face to face promos these days that pertains to a feud are pretty manufactured and I can tell. Delivery and energy and all that never left though. Funny that night he returned he was pretty flawless. I dont buy into the he lost it or hes held back all the time argument though. He just doesn't have good content to work with 95% of the time.

His best work, not surprisingly, are the things he does when the show is off the air. Just off the cuff and going with the flow.

Ring work, he lost a step big time. He does get gassed but not to the extent people say on here. Age, time away, trying to wrestle with all that muscle mass, and not having proper ring training will do that. They need to stop having Rock in these long ass matches too. I imagine its gotta be pretty shit to try and prepare for a match while trying to stay fit for a movie role. Tbh, hes doing too much.

While Im a fan overall of the Cena/Rock fiasco, and enjoyed last years match and some moments of the feud, Im willing to give these two another shot of putting on a better match. With everyone shitting on these two left and right, it would be so awesome for me personally. I really think they can pull it off.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time
*​

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)
15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)*



*13. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)​**
"John Cena hold on tight because the Heartbreak Kid is gonna take you to the top of the mountain" Shawn Michaels​*








One of my favourite matches ever, and actually one of my favourite buildups ever also. The video promo for this match is absolutely awesome. I may be alone on this but this actually felt like a huge match. I loved the start playing off the previous years match between Cena and HHH, how Cena came out and tried to lay right hands on HBK and HBK being the veteran and generally faster guy ducked them and laid him down with vicious chops. I forgot before this even began HBK brought Cena in just to slap him in the face :mark: ohh i love you HBK. As HBK took the advantage early he began to get cocky, and Cena hits him with a huge clothesline. With HBK more focused now he takes back the advantage and goes for the knee of Cena, working it over and then eventually it drags to the outside and HBK hits his patterned Wrestlemania moonsault. A lot of people are skeptical with Cena's selling of the knee, I think he did a good job at the start, but as the match progressed his selling gradually got worse. Things come back into the ring and Cena takes control and HBK ends up blading when he hits the outside pole. A nice sequence which ends with Cena ducking and HBK hitting SCM on the referee. Then HBK decides to bring Cena to the outside and hit a piledriver on the steel steps. This was awesome up to here but the finishing sequence was glorious, honestly one of the best in Wrestlemania history, which eventually ends in HBK tapping to the STF. Shawn Michaels really put Cena over just like HHH did the year before, but don't be mistaken this was a complete carry job by HBK and honestly one of his best ever. For my money a top 3 WWE title match at the show of shows. My only gripe on this match is the winner, Shawn deserved it even if he lost the title in the same kinda fashion one month later at Backlash. The fans in attendance were praying for it and I can only imagine the Wrestlemania moment of HBK celebrating with the title. Such a great match and watching it again makes me think this is also the MOTY for 2007, thank you Shawn.​
***** 1/2​*


*12. WWE Championship & Intercontinental Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs Ultimate Warrior(c) (Title vs Title ; Wrestlemania VI)​**
"The crowd is split, 50% for the Warrior and 50% for the Hulkster" Gorilla Monsoon​*










This is as big as it gets, the main event of Wrestlemania and the two biggest stars in the industry fighting for the possession of both the WWE and Intercontinental championship. The atmosphere for this match was just crazy, the crowd just exploded for everything these guys did. This was as basic of a match as you get, but that's what made it so good they didn't need to have a technical classic these were just 2 huge personalities going at it. In reflection this match is so much like Hogan/Rock, both guys just oozed charisma and had the crowd in the palms of there hands with all their mannerisms and patterned taunts and moves. It started so basic with a tie up, with both guys tossing the opponent over, which prompted the Warrior to ask Hogan for a test of strength. For something so small as a test of strength the crowd went crazy. It was such a basic match, with each guy practically copying the last guys movement. When Hogan hits the outside he goes down with a knee injury, in which the Warrior goes after it, nice selling by Hogan by the way. We hit the finishing sequence in which Hogan kicks out of the gorilla press and splash, and hulks up :mark: But when he goes to hit the leg drop, Warrior moves and hits the splash for the win. This was such a huge moment, as Hogan never lost especially clean this really felt like the changing of the guard. This match did such good business, it's a shame they didn't have a rematch, all the seeds were planted as Warrior may have won but he never kicked out of the leg drop. People may ask why rate it so high if it was so basic? It just worked and was such an enjoyable match, as I've stated before these are the kind of matches that don't need to be technical classics. This match is truly what Wrestlemania is all about. In my book this is the greatest match in Hulk Hogans career and the 12th greatest Wrestlemania match of all time.​*
**** 1/2​*

Getting close to the top 10 now, anyone care to guess my top 10 or top 5 in order


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm liking the list SMIG. 

Thanks to those who gave Regal recommendations a few pages back.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Personally I adore Hogan/Warrior, but I could never imagine giving it a ****1/2. When you said its 'only' Hogan's best match, hoping to see Warrior/Savage very high up the list. I think if I went out and did a list, it would be 5th or 4th for me. As an FYI, they did have a rematch. But if you don't know about it, then consider yourself blessed. 

Stan Hansen & Harley Race vs the Road Warriors (Animal & Hawk) Battle of the Belts 1 (1985)
A fight, and nothing but one. Four of the toughest men in wrestling, just battering the life out of each other. Looks brutal and stiff. I am not sure of the Animal's nose has paint, or Hansen and Race broke it. Hansen's crazy antics with throwing chairs and referees around is golden. Thats pretty much it. The rest is just a vicious brawl. **3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll take a shot.

1. HBK-Taker WM XXV
2. Bret-Austin WM XIII
3. HBK-Taker WM XXVI
4. HHH-Benoit-HBK WM XX
5. Bret-Owen WM X
6. Rock-Austin WM X-7
7. HHH-Taker WM XXVIII
8. HBK-Razor WM X
9. Savage-Steamboat WM III
10. Warrior-Savage WM VII
11. HBK-Austin WM XIV

HBK-Austin is my pick for your favorite match ever BTW. It could not be on the list at all or insanely high. 

Just watched Brock Lesnar vs Matt Hardy from 4/10/03, Matt gains an advantage by hitting Brock's neck (this was 10 days after the infamous botched SSP @ Mania) with the belt and stays on the controlling end with some great psychology and neck work by Hardy managing to even the odds against the babyface monster until he's inevitably crushed. The best Hardy-Lesnar of the four singles matches that they had together for sure, although they're all good in they're own way. One of the best sub five minute matches I've seen ; a Brock Lesnar staple (especially what I've seen so far) in the sense that it's short but impactful.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Personally I adore Hogan/Warrior, but I could never imagine giving it a ****1/2. When you said its 'only' Hogan's best match, hoping to see Warrior/Savage very high up the list. I think if I went out and did a list, it would be 5th or 4th for me. As an FYI, they did have a rematch. But if you don't know about it, then consider yourself blessed.


Don't worry you will be seeing Savage/Warrior later on  

I've seen some others rate Hogan/Warrior as ***** 1/2* I guess its my love for old school big time matches like I gave Hogan/Savage ***** 1/4* which im sure not many others have also. I was more thinking a rematch at Wrestlemania 7, which could of been even bigger, but then again we wouldnt of got Savage/Warrior :mark:



KingOfKings said:


> I'll take a shot.
> 
> 1. HBK-Taker WM XXV
> 2. Bret-Austin WM XIII
> ...


Nice try KOK, Im pretty sure you only got 1 match in the right spot  however I think you picked my top 5 correctly unless I make a change which I might. 

Nope HBK/Austin didnt make my list, it was around 30-35 for me. Therefore its not my favourite match ever


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

fpalm at Taker/Punk for WrestleMania. It should be a good match, but it will have ZERO drama. No matter what Punk does, I'll go "meh", because there's no way he wins the match whatsoever.

Punk just lost to Rock twice, lost to Cena clean, and we're supposed to buy him taking the Streak down? LMAO, fuck this shit.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

^ I wouldn't mind if Punk defeated the Undertaker. Seriously.

But they're saving Cena/Underboy for 30... So, yeah.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Just watched Jericho/HBK Wrestlemania 19. What a match. I hadn't seen it in years and forgot how good it really was. From the video package prior to the storytelling within the match to the finishing sequence. I don't think Jericho had ever looked as good as he did in this match. HBK made him look like a million bucks. What a performance by Shawn Michaels as well. He was moving so well for a guy coming off a major back injury. Seemed like he was in the best shape of his life. I think this is an absolute perfect wrestling match, thus I am giving it full stars.

Rating: *****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Well it was long overdue, but finally CM Punk has pinned Randy Orton cleanly. This is step one in making Punk look strong for Mania. Step two should be a beatdown on Taker, which I can see happening next week.


Doesn't surprise me. Punk has been over Orton since 2011 & Orton is a main event jobber. It was expected. Doesn't mean I didn't love it though.



Nostalgia said:


> Anyone dislike all the pointless repeat matches we get on RAW? Team Hell No vs The Prime Time Players is up next, a match that has happened a few times recently, and we had Ryback vs Cesaro earlier that's happened 3 or 4 times before with the same result every time. WWE doing the old school theme tonight is good, something different, but yet they keep the same old boring matches.


It makes me want to buy a gun and use it on myself. Or the bookers. Depends on my mood after seeing a crap RAW like tonight's.



Saint Dick said:


> ^didn't mind it tbh. I prefer a bunch of guys fighting for the right to face Taker to Taker/Punk just happening out of nowhere for no apparent reason.
> 
> Looks like we're getting Ryback/Henry at Mania. I'm cool with that. Could be fun to see them slog it out.


Yep. Anyone complaining about the way the match was set up only to go nuts for Taker/Shawn at 25 is laughable. Both matches were set up the same exact way.

And I'm totally down for Henry/Ryback.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

- *WrestleMania X-Seven*
Jericho/Regal**
RTC/Tazz,APA*
Kane/Raven/BigShow**
Guerrero/Test*
Angle/Benoit***1/2
Mcmahon/Mcmahon***
TLC****
Taker/HHH***
Austin/Rock****

- They showed post show footage of the Shield attacking Show.
Looks like Show is turning face and we're getting Show,Sheamus & Orton vs. Shield at WM.
Don't see the Shield losing after going over the SuperFriends.

- Before RR i thought Ryback would win the match and face Show at WM but after ADR beat Show 3 times i'd rather have Ryback face someone else.
Henry is a great choice.

- Punk/Taker will be a quality match, i'm interested in seeing what they do now.

- Cena is trying so hard to sell a redemption story the company screwed up on. Will be a quality match but the build to this match isn't what i'm looking forward to seeing.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Punk's no less credible of a challenger then Lesnar. Neither has any chance of winning but the live crowd will be into the match just because and I can almost guarantee there'll be one near fall that gets everyone live. I hope they go the route of Punk doing everything possible to squirm a win. Doesn't have to pin or submit Taker to break the streak remember. Really hoping they do massive DQ/Count Out teases of Punk winning. Maybe even do one but have the match restart. Helps cover Taker's health and what he can do in a match too (supposedly anyway). *


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Finished Wahoo McDaniel and the Nature Boy, Ric Flair 2/3 falls match. And, I think I really need to watch it again. Very difficult match to break down and give a 'proper rating'. I don't recall Wahoo making a single move that wasn't a lock, hold, or those absolute beasty chops. Regardless of that, he still shined out in a out of this world performance, imo. As for Flair, it felt different from a typical Flair performance. He brought in something different to the table, that I can't exactly bite into. It was intangible. A second watch over, give my write up a proper glossing over. 

There was one downside though, was Flair's chops. They look disturbingly weak, Wahoo would just power in a chop, that I'd call a mauling, of his own right after, too. Seemed just a way for him to fill portions of the match with offence.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Wahoo was the man. One of my favorite old school 'rasslers.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Finished Wahoo McDaniel and the Nature Boy, Ric Flair 2/3 falls match. And, I think I really need to watch it again. Very difficult match to break down and give a 'proper rating'. I don't recall Wahoo making a single move that wasn't a lock, hold, or those absolute beasty chops. Regardless of that, he still shined out in a out of this world performance, imo. As for Flair, it felt different from a typical Flair performance. He brought in something different to the table, that I can't exactly bite into. It was intangible. A second watch over, give my write up a proper glossing over.
> 
> There was one downside though, was Flair's chops. They look disturbingly weak, Wahoo would just power in a chop, that I'd call a mauling, of his own right after, too. Seemed just a way for him to fill portions of the match with offence.


Its a stellar match and Wahoo's violence and physical style lends itself to creating a unique and different take on the Flair formula, albeit with basic traits of the formula still apparent. As for the chops, I saw that as Flair's way of highlighting his opponent's strength. Against power guys he'd usually try and get into physical exchanges and end up on his ass every time as a result, felt like he was demonstrating Wahoo's offence particularly the chops as a difference maker and putting them over as unstoppable strikes and developing a mini narrative in the process. If you can find a link to their Mid South encounter from 7/12/85 then you'll be rewarded with another gem in their feud.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I'll give their MS match a look up after Starrcade '85. I see they have had a match in the Steel Cage at the '86 Bash. Think you may of mentioned it yesterday, I've forgotten, is it up to their 2/3 falls?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I'll give their MS match a look up after Starrcade '85. I see they have had a match in the Steel Cage at the '86 Bash. Think you may of mentioned it yesterday, I've forgotten, is it up to their 2/3 falls?


I don't believe I've seen their Cage encounter, only Cage match from the GAB tour of '86 I recall seeing is Flair/Morton and that's a sensational match and one of Flair's most overlooked matches. Morton is the perennial tag team specialist taking on the magnetic singles ac with a broken nose after a brutal Horsemen attack & its worked to perfection. Morton is as sympathetic and heroic as he could possibly be, Flair's presence, charisma and offence is focused and generates great heat and the match is worked to perfection.

Their Mid South encounter is very good-great, but comfortably below the BOTB 2/3 falls encounter. That's far more to do with how great the BOTB match is though, rather than being a disservice to the Mid South match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Match listing has their GAB86 match as 'July 18th'. Also has Flair/Morton in the Cage and in a Texas Deathmatch on 5th and 6th of July. Seems I will need to try find a link for as many of these as I can. Not sure what show I have ended up with.

Just checked. It was the 26th of July. Dusty Rhodes claiming the NWA World Championship in the Steel Cage.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm about to watch ALL WM HBK matches again :mark:

As far as I remember, the worst rated one is the Orient Express vs. Rockers @ WM VI, which I have at ***. This is going to be an epic rewatch... Ratings for all HBK WM matches?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

March 23rd, 1998. Louisville, KY. Champion Vs. Champion.

The United States Champion, Diamond Dallas Page, walks down the aisle beltless (Raven had stolen it from him during an interview on MTV) after challenging The Man Called Sting for the Big Gold Belt in a PPV calibur bout for this edition of Monday Nitro.

The Icon enters next with an endless gaze with the WCW Championship over his shoulder. After sizing each other up, we get a great back and forth match with lots of reversals in front of a hot crowd. After it was all and done, Sting retained after countering The original People's Champion's finisher with his own only to help DDP get back on his feet before giving the Diamond Cutter hand gesture as a sign of respect before Page returned the favor by hugging the man who defeated him as well as raising the arm of the better man.

15 years later after watching it live and its just as good as I remember it and that's why its my favorite WCW TV match of all-time.

- Vic


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My random Raw thoughts I wrote as I watched the show:

Love the look of the Old School Raw shows. Shame Cole is still on commentary. Should have been VINCE.

:mark: Undertaker... oh wait he's just stood there. Well. That was still cool. But come on lol.

Punk! Challenging Undertaker! Yey! Orton? Bah. Show? Eh. Sheamus? Hmmm. Four Way to decide who faces Undertaker? Sure . Punk will win. Yey.

Oh fuck fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck. Henry Vs Ryback for WM now? Urgh. What a waste of Henry. Should be like a hot dog eating contest instead. FEED ME MORE. I'd put money on Henry. Hope they have a throwaway match next week like they did with Khali. Speaking of throwaway... Ryder is Henry's opponent. Sombody gonna get they ass kicked, and it ain't gonna be Henry. Ryder debuted his shitty current gimmick on one of the ECW 09 shows I watched a couple of days ago. He's had the same lame gimmick since 2009. Henry kills Ryder. I'm happy about that at least. 

Yey AJ. And Ziggler. Dammit he's facing Jiz. And Jiz has a mic. Dammit, it starts working. Urgh. Oh fuck, he's bringing out Flair. Get Flair the fuck away from Jiz. Jiz even looks like a spaz when he bows down to Flair. Guy can't do anything right. Useless fucking cunt. I hope he dies. Really soon. Prick that he is. Ziggler loses again. Can't wait until he wins the WORLD title and becomes credible again :side:.

Rock and Cena in the ring on the mic at the same time? Oh god. What useless bullshit lame shitty gay childish words are we gonna get trending on Twitter now? Flumbletrumper? Swizzletwit? Chicken Korma Bitch? Asshat? Somebody PLEASE tell Rock to stop. He's like a taxi driver at cutting promos. Goes all around the town before getting to the point you want to be at. :lmao at Cena saying how badly his loss to Rock last year affected him. Would have been good if he actually showed any of the effects beyond losing some matches here and there (never mentioned after WM he beat the returning Brock Lesnar at the next PPV did he? I guess that would have ruined the story...). Rock wasn't nearly as bad as usual, but they said and did nothing to make me even remotely give a shit about their twice in a fucking lifetime match.

Swagger Vs Hacksaw Jim Duggan with Slaughter and THE AMERICAN DREAM in his corner. Ha, awesome. Ha, he killed them all with the 2x4.

Ted DiBiase out with the Prime Time Players. Ha, awesome again. :lmao at Bryan stealing the money from Darren's mouth.

HONKY TONKY MAN! Tensai dressed like Brodus. Poor guy. Where the FUCK did 3MB come from :lmao. Poor Honky . I wanted to here him sing dammit. Well this lasted seconds. Yey Honky. KILL SLATER WITH THE GUITAR. Yey.

I wish Fandan would Go away. Isn't he the guy that Henry murdered in his debut on SD during Henry's Hall of Pain run?

HHH is really showing his age now. He's fat and bald! 

God I love The Shield. WWE might be failing in almost every way possible when it comes to creative, but they've kept these guys awesome so far.

Barrett Vs Del Rio? Only way I could care less is if they threw Chavo Guerrero Jr in there.

NEW AGE OUTLAWS IN A MATCH :mark:. 

Mae Young's 90's birthday. And Henry is front and centre. Awesome. And he gives her a kiss too. Awesome. CM PUNK!!! Henry should have taken Punk out with a WSS on the floor or something as revenge. Kept Punk down and out of the match only to come in and steal the win at the end of something. That's how I would have booked it . :lmao at Punk's reaction when he goes back in the ring and walks into Show. Punk was awesome all the way through. :lmao at the fat Cena fan women in the front row when Sheamus hits White Noise and goes for a cover. She looks so fucking unimpressed :lmao. Punk wins. I R HAPPI. Guessing the other 3 will face The Shield. I'm fine with that so long as SHIELD win.

YEY MORE UNDERTAKER. He'll come out and stare at Punk I guess?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> 9/21/96, which I like A LOT. I should get it up sometime.
> 
> edit - almost CERTAIN there's a longer Regal/Goldust. So, so, so certain.
> 
> ...


Don't pay any attention to those times. They're added in via the commercial only. Most matches you see that are taped only have a brief portion removed from the match and that's all. Where as the commercial breaks add on 3-4 minutes that you think is actual wrestling going on. It's why I stopped timing the commercials. Funny the moments when it goes to break with two workers in a specific corner and it returns from break with both guys legit in the same place only moved an inch or so. You can tell the only time cut was a second or so.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My 15 Best WM matches:

15.Hogan/Giant- WM III
14.Taker/Flair- WM 8
13.Bret/Piper- WM 8
12. Angle/Lesnar- WM 19
11. Savage/Warrior- Wm 7
10.Savage/Flair- WM 8
9.Bret/Owen- WM 9
8.Rock/Hogan- WM 18
7.TLC Match- WM 17
6.HBK/Flair- WM 24
5.HHH/Taker- WM 28
4.HBK/Ramon- WM 10
3.HBK/HHH/Benoit- WM 20
2.Hart/Stone Cold- WM 13
1.HBK/Taker- Wm 25


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> My 15 Best WM matches:
> 
> 15.Hogan/Giant- WM III


Id always consider that an event/moment more than a match tbh


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well the match wasn't that great, I liked it so much because of the atmosphere surrounding the match


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Hey guys, thought this'd be a good place to ask this question. I was itching to see a classic match from my youth but I can't seem to find it. It's Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada from All Japan in the early 90's, and I believe the Triple Crown was on the line. This particular match went approx an hour long. Can anyone tell me the exact date so I can track it down? Would be much appreciated.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just a reminder for you guys, but the Bret Hart Dungeon Collection DVD/Blu Ray comes out today. I'm picking it up on my lunch break in an hour or so. Can't wait!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The fatal four way last night was decent. But it makes me think, they actually expect anyone to take Punk seriously as a challenge when he's hiding outside the ring like a bitch, trying to be Edge II? Orton giving him that T-Bone Suplex was awesome. Would have given it ★★¾ but the predictability and the ending take away ★★ stars each which gives it -★★¾, the lowest rated match in my entire time as a wrestling fan. First time ever I go beyond 0.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

blarg_ said:


> Hey guys, thought this'd be a good place to ask this question. I was itching to see a classic match from my youth but I can't seem to find it. It's Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada from All Japan in the early 90's, and I believe the Triple Crown was on the line. This particular match went approx an hour long. Can anyone tell me the exact date so I can track it down? Would be much appreciated.


Are you referring to the 6/3/94 Triple Crown match? Its their most famous singles match of the long running series of matches and goes around 35-40 minutes. Misawa first won the Triple Crown in the summer of '92 and I can't recall any other match from them which goes nearly an hour.

If that is the case I can PM you a link.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Up to the infamous Ladder Match at WM 10 now. Took me about 2 days to watch Bret/Owen lol, not because I don't love the match or think its great or think its hard to sit through, but every time I'd sit down to watch it something would fucking happen and I've have to go do something else. Yoko/Luger might be one of the worst big title matches at WM ever btw.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> The fatal four way last night was decent. But it makes me think, they actually expect anyone to take Punk seriously as a challenge when he's hiding outside the ring like a bitch, trying to be Edge II? Orton giving him that T-Bone Suplex was awesome. Would have given it ★★¾ but the predictability and the ending take away ★★ stars each which gives it -★★¾, the lowest rated match in my entire time as a wrestling fan. First time ever I go beyond 0.


:lmao


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> The fatal four way last night was decent. But it makes me think, they actually expect anyone to take Punk seriously as a challenge when he's hiding outside the ring like a bitch, trying to be Edge II? Orton giving him that T-Bone Suplex was awesome. Would have given it ★★¾ but the predictability and the ending take away ★★ stars each which gives it -★★¾, the lowest rated match in my entire time as a wrestling fan. First time ever I go beyond 0.


So the fatal four way last night was the worst match you've ever seen? 

Plus, if you had it at **3/4, taking away the two stars would leave it at 3/4*.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Are you referring to the 6/3/94 Triple Crown match? Its their most famous singles match of the long running series of matches and goes around 35-40 minutes. Misawa first won the Triple Crown in the summer of '92 and I can't recall any other match from them which goes nearly an hour.
> 
> If that is the case I can PM you a link.


Yeah 1994 would be around the time the match took place. It's way back when I was first introduced to foreign wrestling, my buddy had All Japan and UWFi VHS imports and the match was on one of them. At that point it was the greatest match I had ever seen. PM me the link, i'll know right away.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

If any match deserves -** it's yoko Luger at wm X...

Yoko puts him in a nerve hold for like 90% of the match... Brutal stuff


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The fatal four way last night was decent. But it makes me think, they actually expect anyone to take Punk seriously as a challenge when he's hiding outside the ring like a bitch, trying to be Edge II? Orton giving him that T-Bone Suplex was awesome. Would have given it ★★¾ but the predictability and the ending take away ★★ stars each which gives it -★★¾, the lowest rated match in my entire time as a wrestling fan. First time ever I go beyond 0.


You see that?

Thats the credibility of your past/future opinions jumping out the window.

Can you me anymore butthurt over CM Punk's push. It just wrestling dude.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> So the fatal four way last night was the worst match you've ever seen?
> 
> Plus, if you had it at **3/4, taking away the two stars would leave it at 3/4*.


If we go by "snowflakes", I guess so. Although still more enjoyable than flat-out boring matches like Batista vs JBL at TGAB 05.

And I just realized that a few minutes ago. I'm usually good with maths but terrible when I'm subtracting below zero with commas in the mix. (0,75 in this case) Even you botched the subtraction. 

But things are still fine because they could be a million times worse.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> So the fatal four way last night was the worst match you've ever seen?
> 
> Plus, if you had it at **3/4, taking away the two stars would leave it at 3/4*.


He said "each", which would again result in -*1/4


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> He said "each", which would again result in -*1/4


I think he said the took away two stars. Ah, hell I don't know. Damn maths!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think the equation we can take away from all this is that CM Punk is supposedly to matches what HHH is to promos according to Choke2Death.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> You see that?
> 
> Thats the credibility of your past/future opinions jumping out the window.
> 
> Can you me anymore butthurt over CM Punk's push. It just wrestling dude.


Credibility according to who? Some Punk mark who only ever enters this thread to make the discussion on-going about Punk or when it _is_ about him. I could do much worse, but thanks. 

Oh and I'm not "butthurt" about anything. I got bigger things to worry about in my life than some scripted match so maybe you need to stop taking what I say so seriously.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> He said "each", which would again result in -*1/4


After some confusion that's the right answer. If we go by numbers, 2,75 - 4 = -1,25.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I think the equation we can take away from all this is that CM Punk is supposedly to matches what HHH is to promos according to Choke2Death.


Eh, it's just one match. Although I don't really understand the HHH comparison.

Oh and y'all really shouldn't take what I said so seriously. I'm just a bit frustrated about some things (not really wrestling related), so I took it out the easiest way.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its a common joke about HHH's promos being notoriously hard to sit through for a lot of people during his peak run as the champion (2002-2005 moreso than 2000 or after). He seemed like the best comparison for your comment that the match was the worst you'd ever seen on top of the general Punk thoughts. Plus I wanted to make a sarcastic remark.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> Would have given it ★★¾ but the predictability and the ending take away ★★ stars each which gives it -★★¾, the lowest rated match in my entire time as a wrestling fan. First time ever I go beyond 0.


:steiner2

The stars don't lie and they spell disaster for CM Punk at Mania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Its a common joke about HHH's promos being notoriously hard to sit through for a lot of people during his peak run as the champion (2002-2005 moreso than 2000 or after). He seemed like the best comparison for your comment that the match was the worst you'd ever seen on top of the general Punk thoughts. Plus I wanted to make a sarcastic remark.


Ah, I see. Although I've never really hated on Punk in the ring. I'm the furthest thing from a fan but rarely ever do I consider him the root of all evil in a bad match. And even when I do, it's more so the booking than his performance. (MITB with Bryan for instance)



haribo said:


> :steiner2
> 
> The stars don't lie and they spell disaster for CM Punk at Mania.


:lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Official DVD/MATH/Show Discussion Thread.

unk2

EDIT : I wanna talk about DOLPH today. Where would you guys put him in your list of current workers in the company, where is his ceiling as a worker and a character, and what changes would you make in the guy if you wanted to maximize his potential.

To be honest, alot of the problem with Ziggler is (I know it's going to sound hilarious but..) his name. I mean, DOLPH ZIGGLER ? Is it just me, or does that name sound so fucking goofy. I remember a few years ago I couldn't take the guy seriously because there'd be no way that the E would push a guy with such a ridiculous name. Look at guys like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, John Cena, Steve Austin..... NORMAL NAMES that don't sound goofy as all hell. It's probably to late to make a change in this department but DOLPH ZIGGLER ? REALLY ?

Dolph is a strange case in the ring. He could be one of the elite babyface workers but at the same time he has the look of a dickhead pretty boy heel that you wanna punch in the face, with the mic skills of a heel as well. This pretty much means that his character is stuck in complete and utter limbo until he can go out there and get the crowd on his side. I mean DAMN, if truly believed that if Cena were to step down that Dolph could be a candidate to be the next big "underdog" baby face ala HBK in 1996 who went out there and bumped against monsters every single night. Dolph vs Henry/Big Show/Kane would all add intrigue and I think it's something the company should definitely look at.

I'm not getting into his unstoppable jobbing because that's a whole other argument in itself but this guy is the guy who should be the World Heavyweight Champion, and a perennial WWE Championship contender in the near future IMO. I'd put him up there in the top five workers in the company today with Punk/Bryan/Sheamus/Cena , but I don't even think he has scratched the surface on how good he CAN BE.

Hopefully he goes over Jericho at Mania and perhaps walks out as the World Heavyweight Champion. If not, it's only a matter of time before it happens anyways, so let's hope that he can maintain his spot for a while and use it as a springboard into even bigger territories.


----------



## djmathers1207 (Sep 9, 2011)

Just got the new Bret Hart dvd and wanted to know how it is. Is it worth watching?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH SHIT THANKS FOR REMINDING ME.

I'm off to HMV. Cue the 4 out of 10 jokes :lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

djmathers1207 said:


> Just got the new Bret Hart dvd and wanted to know how it is. Is it worth watching?


I pre-ordered it and waiting for it to arrive at my home. Check out everything of course because it's Bret and all of those matches listed are worthwhile, but instantly I would recommend viewing the South Africa match with Austin and the Raw no holds barred match with Owen. Very underrated and rarely talked about matches right there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, final rating for every HAITCH BEE KAY match at MANIA:

vs Twin Towers - ***1/2
vs Orient Express - **1/2
vs Haku & Barbarian - ***3/4
vs Tito Santana - ***
vs Tatanka - ***3/4
vs Razor Ramon - ****1/2
vs Diesel - ***
vs Bret Hart - ****1/4
vs SCSA - ****1/2
vs Chris Jericho - ****3/4
vs HHH vs Chris Benoit - *****
vs Kurt Angle - ****1/2
vs Vinny Mac - ***1/2
vs John Cena - ****3/4
vs Ric Flair - ****1/4
vs Undertaker I - *****
vs Undertaker II - *****

*D-A-M-N.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Clique said:


> I pre-ordered it and waiting for it to arrive at my home. Check out everything of course because it's Bret and all of those matches listed are worthwhile, but instantly I would recommend viewing the South Africa match with Austin and the Raw no holds barred match with Owen. Very underrated and rarely talked about matches right there.


I'm marking the fuck out right now and I haven't even bought the DVD as I'm too lazy to get up and go down to HMV to get it. You wanna see how fucking awesome Bret was though ? Look no further than his matches against Jean Pierre Lafitte and The Patriot. Fucking AWESOME matches that had no right to be awesome. 

Bret had this REAL WORLD CHAMPION demeanor to him and I can't wait to watch all of these matches that a ton of people haven't seen before and give my opinion of them. If I buy the DVD within the hour, I can blow through two discs today and have a review done by tomorrow... HMMMMMMMMMMMM......

LOOKING UP CLIQUE'S AUSTIN-BRET REVIEW IN THE CLASSIC WRESTLING SECTION. EVERYBODY ELSE DO IT TOO.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My issue with Dolph....he's supposed to be a show stealer yet he never steals the show. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. The actual fact that you have to say it in the first place doesn't help matters either. If you really steal the show, people say it for you, you don't need to print it on a shirt and desperately beg people to think it so. Fundamentally flawed gimmick if you ask me. I also don't think he's _that _good in the ring or on the mic either. He just screams midcarder for life to me and nothing more. I don't get the hype. 

Punk/Taker is lol. It's officially announced and I officially don't care.

Rock/Cena was surprising in a good way. Great promo. I could end up liking this if it continues down the same path. 

Trips promo was all right. There wasn't much else he could do tonight other than make the challenge and he did it well. STIPULATION PLEASE. 

FAN...DAN...GOAT.

Raw in a nutshell.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Just got done watching Wrestlemania 27 for the first time. I missed it when it first showed and I've been putting it off ever since due to the horrific feedback that it's received.

A collection of thoughts:
- I consider myself a Rock fan, but what the hell was the point in the opening promo? Just rambled on doing the usual "modern Rock" schtick & basically tired the crowd out before the first match (especially since they had to sit through the National Anthem & 2 video packages bookending the promo. I quite liked the backstage promos throughout the show though.

- Edge vs Del Rio was good. Nothing spectacular, but a decent enough match & it was good to see E & C combine on the big stage again.

- Rhodes vs Mysterio was my surprise of the night. Good story going into it and they played it up throughout the match. Got more time than I thought it would too - just imagine if Punk vs Mysterio from 26 got 12 minutes like these 2 did here!

- Re: the Corre match. What the hell?!? A year building Barrett up and you job his team out in minutes and the only action Kane gets is a diving clothesline & an uppercut as the illegal man? You couldn't even do the simultaneous finisher spot at least? 

- Punk vs Orton was fantastic and the 2nd best match of the night. Great finish. Not much more I can say on it really...

- Ah the infamous Cole vs Lawler... Heard so much about it & yet, I still wasn't prepared for how much of a ballache it was to sit through. God knows how it must've felt watching it live... Cole's promo dragged for an eternity, but the aftermath with him running from Austin's ATV, getting locked (& subsequently attcked) in the Cole-mine was quite entertaining. It is at this point that Lawler should've rolled Cole into the ring, hit the fist drop and picked up the win. But no, we get a never-ending Cole control segment & a bullshit screwjob finish. I quite liked Swagger's involvement, the towel segment was entertaining and some of his expressions at ringside were amusing (like when Cole attempted the Swagger bomb). LOL at Booker just entering the celebration for no real reason, then getting stunned!

- Taker vs HHH was my MOTN and was an absolute war. It's been said before, but I genuinely had my heart in my mouth when HHH hit the tombstone and there was some brutal shots from both guys. The pre-match video package and entrances are genuinely spell-binding. METALLICA!

- The mixed tag was far too short. I wasn't really opposed to Snooki being involved, but I think giving this match another 5 minutes of Dolph vs Morrison would've made it much better.

- Miz vs Cena? Yeah, it was as bad as I everything I read and expected it would be. Another bullshit finish on-top of a poor match. I have no intention of ever watching this one again...


Overall, take the main event and 60% of Cole vs Lawler away and it is really good Wrestlemania with most of the important matches delivering. Punk vs Orton, HHH vs Taker, Mysterio vs Rhodes & Edge vs Del Rio definately made it worth the wait.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lesnar-HHH is probably just going to be a NO DQ match.

For some reason everybody thinks that the first one was No DQ when in fact, it wasn't. Trips just told the referee to let things slide a little bit out there if they get out of control.

If there's no stipulation I'm going to stab somebody but I'm 99.9 percent sure there will be so IDEGAF at this point, only four RAWS until Mania for feuds to be built upon and looking forward to some more Brock-GAME and Punk-Taker encounters.

Interesting to see what Cena does for the next two weeks now that Rock isn't even going to be there. I would have liked to see Cena come out and slap Rock right in the face, to show that he means business kind of like the Lesnar slap pre Extreme Rules 12. Them standing there rambling on about "greatness" and giving random Mike Tyson quotes does nothing for me whatsoever. GIVE ME SOME INTENSITY DAMN IT.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So Mania is looking like:

Cena v Rock
HHH v Lesnar
Punk v Taker
Del Rio v Swagger
Sheamus/Orton/Show v Shield
Henry v Ryback
Kaitlyn v Layla

I'm guessing they'll add Jericho/Ziggler to give both guys something to do. Miz/Cesaro blow-off and something with Kane/Bryan. Decent card on paper. Feels a bit underwhelming for Mania but it will be great if the big matches deliver.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I just can't believe that they think they can build Wrestlemania in 4 weeks. Madness.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
Two of the those four weeks without The Rock.

Idk, I think when it is all said and done and WrestleMania 29 is over I think the match quality on the overall card may surprise people.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker and Cena are pretty much locks to win their respective matches @ Mania.

I'm completely 50/50 on who will win Brock/HHH. All logical sense would mean BROCK winning and looking even more like an unstoppable monster going into what would be either Brock/Taker or Brock/Rock at Wrestlemania XXX, but at the same time.... It's TRIPLE FUCKING HAITCH we're talking about here. This would kill Brock worse than the Cena fiasco IMO and I wouldn't put it past the WWE to job Lesnar out again.

I'm like 90 percent sure Del Rio is going over at Mania unless WWE throws us a curveball which they sometimes do with the NON MAIN EVENT matches. I want DOLPH to cash in but I don't think it's happening so..... Yeah Del Rio walks out with the belt. FUCK.

The Shield and Ryback are pretty obvious wins too.

Yeah, Brock/HHH is the match I'm most interested in due to the complete unpredictability of whatever HHH is involved in.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Also shitty that Rock and Lesnar aren't there every week.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I too think it's going to end up surprising a lot of us overall purely because the expectations going in are _so _low. I think I'm willing to let this years show slide so long as they get it right with 30. If Taker/Cena doesn't happen then FUCK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. That is something that will legitimately piss me off. No Brock/Taker is disappointing but no Taker/Cena isn't going to sit well with me at all.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Taker and Cena are pretty much locks to win their respective matches @ Mania.
> 
> I'm completely 50/50 on who will win Brock/HHH. All logical sense would mean BROCK winning and looking even more like an unstoppable monster going into what would be either Brock/Taker or Brock/Rock at Wrestlemania XXX, but at the same time.... It's TRIPLE FUCKING HAITCH we're talking about here. This would kill Brock worse than the Cena fiasco IMO and I wouldn't put it past the WWE to job Lesnar out again.
> 
> ...


Wonder how many matches Brock will work this year. Maybe HHH evens the score and they have a rubber match at Extreme Rules with Brock going over. I agree though, HHH/Lesnar is the least predictable match. I'd bet my house on Cena, Taker and Ryback. Pretty sure Del Rio is beating Swagger but they could swerve us. The Shield should definitely win and I think they will but still worried WWE might fuck it up and feel the need for the faces to go over at Mania.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

There's obviously going to have to be some stip for Lesnar/HHH. Just have them in a streetfight, let Lesnar bloody up HHH and dismantle HHH a lot more so than what he did at Summerslam, HHH pulls out the sledgehammer and attacks the stomach and evens things up a bit for a little while, and it ends with Lesnar either making HHH tap out again or an F-5. That's the basic layout of how I'd do the match, and I think if they do it that way and Taker/Punk doesn't live up to expectations, it could be MOTN. 

But I'm expecting a No-DQ match that's, like Summerslam, a poor-man's fight that drags on and on and on. It doesn't help that the match nearly turned me away from going to Wrestlemania before it was even announced, but if they do that shit at Mania when I'm there live, I'm gonna be a bit ticked off. I expect nothing less than an all-out war. 

I wonder how they're going to shuffle the big 3 feuds (Rock/Cena, Taker/Punk, and Lesnar/HHH)? Here's my prediction for what will close each show:

3/11: Lesnar accepting HHH's challenge will close the show followed by another brawl.
3/18: Taker confrontation with Punk where they go back and fourth on the mic to really sell the feud.
3/25: Cena match to close the show with Rock coming out afterward and either Rock-bottoming Cena's opponent or Cena (Rock will cut a promo earlier in the show).
4/1: Rock/Cena closes the show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> My issue with Dolph....he's supposed to be a show stealer yet he never steals the show. Just because you say it, doesn't make it true. The actual fact that you have to say it in the first place doesn't help matters either. If you really steal the show, people say it for you, you don't need to print it on a shirt and desperately beg people to think it so. Fundamentally flawed gimmick if you ask me. I also don't think he's _that _good in the ring or on the mic either. He just screams midcarder for life to me and nothing more. I don't get the hype.
> 
> Punk/Taker is lol. It's officially announced and I officially don't care.
> 
> ...


And my thoughts captured by Starbuck once again.

Although the only thing I'd change is FAN...DAN...LOL. Seriously, this gimmick is so goofy, it kills me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Streak has been built up to put Cena over at Wrestlemania XXX, I truly believe that.

Just think about it for a second ; can you picture Undertaker beating Cena and then just retiring, leaving Cena to come out and say "there's one thing that I'll never do and that's defeat the Undertaker at Wrestlemania, he beat me and it's over". Think about the Tyson quote that he gave last night about beating everybody on the planet to be the greatest ever. 

They're REALLY all in on this Cena being the GOAT thing, believe it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I too think it's going to end up surprising a lot of us overall purely because the expectations going in are _so _low. I think I'm willing to let this years show slide so long as they get it right with 30. If Taker/Cena doesn't happen then FUCK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. That is something that will legitimately piss me off. No Brock/Taker is disappointing but no Taker/Cena isn't going to sit well with me at all.


Yeah. I think people are disappointed because of the build and the rematches that no one really wanted but tbh all of the likely matches have potential. HHH/Brock and Punk/Taker could be MOTYCs. Cena/Rock should be a good spectacle and better than the Punk/Rock matches. The Shield are 3 for 3 when it comes to good matches so no reason to expect their match to be bad. Not too sure about Del Rio/Swagger because I'm not too sure about Swagger as a worker but again, no reason to expect it to be bad. Henry/Ryback could suck but it could be fun too. Hopefully they work a shortish match with both guys clobbering each other and a memorable show of strength from Ryback. I'm totally fine with the way the card is shaping up, just up to them to deliver now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

For WM30, considering Heyman's tweet from a while ago, I think Brock/Rock is a lock. Therefore I can't see anything else for Cena besides a match with Taker, which means that's a lock. Taker and Brock win their respective matches and go to WM31 where Taker silences Brock once and for all.

And I'm going into WM29 with low expectations, but not as low as I went into WM27 with, where I wasn't interested in anything really, even Taker/HHH was disappointing week in week out until the final week with HBK. This year they at least have Taker/Punk which I'm very much looking forward to, Rock/Cena II which despite the fact I don't think it should be happening, I'll still probably have fun watching, and The Shield match which is bound to be great just like their other three matches. Only thing I couldn't care less about is Lesnar/HHH, but even then in the back of my mind I know if they really let them go all out for the match and break PG boundaries, then it could be awesome. 

So I moderately-low expectations, but not super low like some people.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Rock/Brock happened, Rock would be going over 100 percent. BROCK even mentions in his book that he wish he could give Rock a win back for doing what Rock did for him @ Summerslam 2002.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Also shitty that Rock and Lesnar aren't there every week.


Lesnar's limited appearance deal and Rock's schedule fucked that one up.

Sucks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well technically Brock DID give Rock his win back... at a house show .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> If Rock/Brock happened, Rock would be going over 100 percent. BROCK even mentions in his book that he wish he could give Rock a win back for doing what Rock did for him @ Summerslam 2002.


If it happens at WM30, I can't see Brock losing unless he also loses at WM29, which I'm slowly starting to believe won't happen with Brock's contract running to WM31. If WM30 was Brock's last match, I would 100% believe Rock's going over, but if not, then it's pretty unpredictable for me now if he really did write that in his book, and knowing how Brock doesn't care about winning.

If Taker's not retiring after WM30 and wants to try and make it to 25-0, then whoever wins Rock/Brock I'd imagine Taker would be locking horns with at WM31. Taker/Rock or Taker/Brock would excite me, though Taker/Brock would excite me far more.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I want to see Brock BORK a sledgehammer over his knee in this match. That would own. Awesome visual. More 'off come the gloves' moments would be nice too. It sucks that Brock isn't on every week. He's the one person that I legitimately look forward to watching every time I hear his music these days. DAT AURA.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

djmathers1207 said:


> Just got the new Bret Hart dvd and wanted to know how it is. Is it worth watching?


Dude that makes no sense, just watch the damn thing


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just got the Bret Hart Dungeon Collection Blu Ray at Best Buy. CAN'T WAIT to watch this bad boy.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Opening segment tonight was such garbage. Clearly the WWE don't have a fucking clue how to start the feud, so they just have Punk come out and basically say "I have nothing to do, so Undertaker, let's fight~"
> 
> Punk deserves so much better. This 'Mania is just so bad.


Couldn't agree more, literally couldn't believe that Taker's streak opponent was decided by a fucking Fatal Four Way.

I know some people have said things like the final Streak match should be decided by the Rumble and things like that, but I hate those ideas. The Streak should be something personal to Taker, and ultimately he should get the call for the opponent; Vickie Guerrero should be _nowhere near_ it.

I'm sure the program will be good from here on in, but absolutely raging at how badly Taker's return was booked. The house show idea was stupid to begin with; TNA did it with Matt Morgan and it was stupid then, so why WWE thought it was a good idea with THE UNDERTAKER, I don't know.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That Lance Armstrong line from the Rock was awesome! 

Great promo from both men this time, we saw a glimpse of the old arrogant Rock and also, nice to see Cena sell his 'redemption' story pretty nicely. I don't know why but Cena's promo last year had me thinking that he may turn heel in order to beat the Rock. Unlikely but hey, we can dream


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Couldn't agree more, literally couldn't believe that Taker's streak opponent was decided by a fucking Fatal Four Way.


I have to agree with that, i LOVE the fucking Taker but it was strange him opening Raw for a random reason (we all know why, but it looked wierd to me), then for them to to, again, randomly announce a fatal four way to face Undertaker??  WTF, this is the fucking Taker, its the fucking streak FFS,

I did like the ending with the staredown though, but i would have preferred a Punk promo, and Taker to interrupt in some way tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have mixed feelings regarding Taker/Punk. I really disliked their matches from 09/10, especially Breaking Point. Sure, Punk's far better of a worker now, and him vs healthy Taker could nowadays be a MOTYC, but still.

I'm a bit bored, suggestions for a Mania to watch tonight for fun (that is NOT 17 though )


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

ATF said:


> I have mixed feelings regarding Taker/Punk. I really disliked their matches from 09/10, especially Breaking Point. Sure, Punk's far better of a worker now, and him vs healthy Taker could nowadays be a MOTYC, but still.
> 
> I'm a bit bored, suggestions for a Mania to watch tonight for fun (that is NOT 17 though )


Just for fun? 8, 14, or 19.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, 14 and 19 were high on the list, but I forgot about 8, great WM too. Thks for suggestions.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone else get fucking annoyed when you click on a YT video that you wanna watch, you can of course see the preview pic beforehand, you click on it and its some moron's bloody stupid WWE13 crappy piece of shit video :gun:

Looking for a clip of the ending of Raw with Taker/Punk, found a clip of the start of Raw...


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Anyone else get fucking annoyed when you click on a YT video that you wanna watch, you can of course see the preview pic beforehand, you click on it and its some moron's bloody stupid WWE13 crappy piece of shit video :gun:
> 
> Looking for a clip of the ending of Raw with Taker/Punk, found a clip of the start of Raw...


 lol, I'm so used to it now that I can tell the fake ones. 

Have you tried Dailymotion, mate?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> lol, I'm so used to it now that I can tell the fake ones.
> 
> Have you tried Dailymotion, mate?


I keep forgetting about DM lol , thx ill have a look (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The fatal four way last night was decent. But it makes me think, they actually expect anyone to take Punk seriously as a challenge when he's hiding outside the ring like a bitch, trying to be Edge II? Orton giving him that T-Bone Suplex was awesome. Would have given it ★★¾ but the predictability and the ending take away ★★ stars each which gives it -★★¾, the lowest rated match in my entire time as a wrestling fan. First time ever I go beyond 0.


Is this a troll?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I do believe so.

I seriously think that the outcome of a match affects his outlook on a match more than anybody else. Case in point ; Rumble and EC 13. Punk wins ? *-** .... Rock Wins ? ***-**** :lol.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Nah, predictability shouldn't be a reason to lower the stars. If that was the case, most Taker WM matches would go down.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

KingOfKings said:


> I wanna talk about DOLPH today. Where would you guys put him in your list of current workers in the company, where is his ceiling as a worker and a character, and what changes would you make in the guy if you wanted to maximize his potential.
> 
> To be honest, alot of the problem with Ziggler is (I know it's going to sound hilarious but..) his name. I mean, DOLPH ZIGGLER ? Is it just me, or does that name sound so fucking goofy. I remember a few years ago I couldn't take the guy seriously because there'd be no way that the E would push a guy with such a ridiculous name. Look at guys like Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, John Cena, Steve Austin..... NORMAL NAMES that don't sound goofy as all hell. It's probably to late to make a change in this department but DOLPH ZIGGLER ? REALLY ?


Yeah, I never thought someone called Dolph Ziggler could work his way into the main event scene. As talented as anybody can be, being stuck with a name that ridiculous can be a career killer. Absolutely no idea why they modelled it on the name of Hitler's favourite painter, but it could just another of Vince's clueless moments ("Pirates of the Caribbean? What's that?" :vince). Shame he couldn't have just worked with his ACTUAL name. Even though its more an 80s/90s naming process, "The Natural" Nick Nemeth would be much better, especially with his show-off persona i.e. everything would come natural to him.

Can't praise him enough for getting past the Spirit Squad, Chavo's caddy and HI I'M DOLPH ZIGGLER gimmicks. He'll never be the company's number one, probably never ascending above a Jericho-level (getting there is an accomplishment in itself though), but he can easily fit WWE's bill of what a poster boy should look like and would likely be excellent at handling the media if they gave him a shot like they have done with Punk.

It's an absolute joke that he's already regarded to have a world title reign btw. Even Big Show's 40 second reign was less of a mockery. Take away the inevitable cheap MITB cash-in and his first proper reign could've been huge - alas it was the same for Bryan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Nah, predictability shouldn't be a reason to lower the stars. If that was the case, most Taker WM matches would go down.


There are exceptions of course. Taker definitely is the best example. And I can actually appreciate his talent because he's damn good.

With that said, don't even remind me of _that_ match. IT'S NOTHING MORE THAN AN ILLUSION!

And the outcome only bothers me if it's an extreme case like the ones KOK posted. That's why it's been that much easier to get over Swagger winning the chamber or Lesnar losing to Cena in his first match back.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> There are exceptions of course. Taker definitely is the best example. And I can actually appreciate his talent because he's damn good.
> 
> With that said, don't even remind me of _that_ match. IT'S NOTHING MORE THAN AN ILLUSION!
> 
> And the outcome only bothers me if it's an extreme case like the ones KOK posted. That's why it's been that much easier to get over Swagger winning the chamber or Lesnar losing to Cena in his first match back.


 Fair enough. I can totally understand why you rated Rock - Punk I so highly :rock4


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Anyone else get fucking annoyed when you click on a YT video that you wanna watch, you can of course see the preview pic beforehand, you click on it and its some moron's bloody stupid WWE13 crappy piece of shit video :gun:
> 
> Looking for a clip of the ending of Raw with Taker/Punk, found a clip of the start of Raw...


Yup. That gets extremely annoying. Especially when it turns out to be a video of someone recapping Raw as if they're cutting a fucking promo. 



ATF said:


> I have mixed feelings regarding Taker/Punk. I really disliked their matches from 09/10, especially Breaking Point. Sure, Punk's far better of a worker now, and him vs healthy Taker could nowadays be a MOTYC, but still.


Yeah, that's pretty understandable. Their Breaking Point match and also their Hell in a Cell match were underwhelming. Although, they did have one match on Smackdown back in 2010 that I enjoyed.





I can't find the whole video of the match but yeah, it was a really good match.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Watched Lesnar v Cena from Extreme Rules the other day a few hours after I saw there Backlash match. 

****3/4.

This match is absolutely surreal, and then finish absolutely kills it. Seriously what the hell were they thinking giving Cena the win? It even fits into the current storyline he has going with The Rock about having this 'bad year'. Also could of had a rematch down the line that would of been huge. Lesnar would of looked even more invincible than he does now going had he won. The finish should of been Lesnar kicking out and then just viciously F5'ing Cena to win the match.

But enough about the finish that I will never understand, the match was brilliant. The stoppages for blood didn't bother me, made Lesnar look a beast for busting him open within 20 seconds of his return, and made Cena look vulnerable for the first time in years. Every successful comeback Cena made was believable and as for Lesnar he played the monster perfectly. 

This match had the same formula as pretty much every Cena match, but from watching the match it is clear to see you are witnessing something special. 

Kudos to Lesnar and Cena for putting on a great match, but shame on WWE for a terrible decision in having Cena win.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a big fan of their 09 series. Breaking point was the weakest match they had, but it was pretty short and had the shit finish. HIAC was good for the time that got, and I loved the SD match they had where they teased another screw job. 2010 SD match is tremendous. I have confidence that at WM they can have a MOTYC. HHH/Lesnar has potential to be just as good if not better too. Shame the main event has pretty much zero chance of being good lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I hate to bring back an old topic of discussion, but after watching Fall Brawl 1994, I firmly believe that the chemistry that Sting and Vader possessed is up there with the likes of Undertaker/HBK, Flair/Steamboat, and Punk/Cena. Those two always work magic together. Are their non-PPV matches also good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know whenever I talk about WCW PPVs I never mention Slamboree '97. Mostly b/c I didn't remember a single thing about it. Finished it right now and WOW. Why couldn't WCW make all their PPVs like that? Filled with entertaining, compelling, & some great matches all throughout. Not a single one was "bad" by normal definitions. Glacier/Mortis was a sham only thanks to the lack of time leading to being a feud advancer and nothing more, yet it wasn't an eyesore by any means. Don't get me started on the main event ACTUALLY BEING WORKED VERY WELL. No shenanigans and piss poor booking and the nWo guys actually have a really good match. Amazing.

Oh and for Yeah1993 _(or anyone who's awesome enough to care)_ Benoit vs Meng Death Match holds up as being pretty bossy. Manly all the way.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BENOIT AND MENG :mark:

Wish Meng stuck around in WWE for longer than he did when he returned in 01. Imagine if he was still there in 06. FINLAY VS MENG. BENOIT VS MENG. REGAL VS MENG. JBL VS MENG. MARK HENRY VS MENG.

So I powered through the rest of WM X today... and then all of WM 11. Anyone who claims WM 11 is the worst WM of all time is deluded as fuck and should be forced to sit through WM 2 for the rest of their life.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> You know whenever I talk about WCW PPVs I never mention Slamboree '97. Mostly b/c I didn't remember a single thing about it. Finished it right now and WOW. Why couldn't WCW make all their PPVs like that? Filled with entertaining, compelling, & some great matches all throughout. Not a single one was "bad" by normal definitions. Glacier/Mortis was a sham only thanks to the lack of time leading to being a feud advancer and nothing more, yet it wasn't an eyesore by any means. Don't get me started on the main event ACTUALLY BEING WORKED VERY WELL. No shenanigans and piss poor booking and the nWo guys actually have a really good match. Amazing.
> 
> Oh and for Yeah1993 _(or anyone who's awesome enough to care)_ Benoit vs Meng Death Match holds up as being pretty bossy. Manly all the way.


Throw me some stars, big guy. Pretty sure I have that show on tape.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Those two always work magic together. Are their non-PPV matches also good?


They have good/great/amazing matches all over PPVs, TV, and house shows. Every single Sting/Vader is really worth a watch and their best matches are pretty much classics. And if know how picky I am about calling a match a 'classic' then you know THAT'S praise for them. 



HayleySabin said:


> Oh and for Yeah1993 _(or anyone who's awesome enough to care)_ Benoit vs Meng Death Match holds up as being pretty bossy. Manly all the way.


Yeah, it rocks. I really dig Meng/Haku for what he is. Speaking of him, WATCH THIS- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
Goes like two minutes but it just...it just..IT'S AWESOME. The finish is AWESOME, too, and pretty unique. Meng is totally a guy who could use the "I watch bucket loads of random stuff from him on stream sites" treatment.


What'd you think of Regal/Ultimo, btw? Fucking rules, right? It fucking rules.

When was the last time you watched Bash at the Beach 97? I shit you not (and everyone who watched it a year ago will back me up if they read this), Glacier/Mortis v Wrath/The Cat is totally unreal.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Decided to hold off on getting The Dungeon Collection until I can get home in a few days and use my parents money to buy it .

So essentially I'm left streaming shit and I decided to watch a few matches on that top 100 WWF/WWE matches list that I haven't seen in a while in order to re rank it and post it sometime in the future, starting with Owen Hart vs Davey Boy from RAW IS BERLIN. What a fucking match that was, with the two guys starting out all technical and fair and shit until Owen slowly starts incorporating heelish tactics that make him look like a real dick by the end of the match. So crisply worked and smooth it's unreal, still wouldn't have it above the big two 2001 TV matches but it's a definite top 5 WWF/WWE TV match ever as far as I'm concerned, and probably number one for like 50 percent of people or more.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Decided to rewatch the two big 2012 matches that will be getting big rematches at WM: Rock/Cena and HHH/Lesnar. These two matches have really divided a lot of people, some hated, some loved, and everything in between. My reviews from this recent viewings:

*The Rock vs. John Cena*
Let me just say this: NO MATCH should have ever be built up for an entire year. It just cannot be done. If Cena/Punk at MITB or even HBK/UT at WM had been built up over a year, there still might be a shred of disappointment in some. Building up a match over a year builds the match to unreasonably mythic heights. I say this with all due respect, but: it's a wrestling match. It's not a summer blockbuster, or a bestselling novel, or an album from a well-known artist. It's a wrestling match.

I appreciate giving the match 30 minutes to build up the drama, but ultimately, that dragged the action out and slowed the match down considerably. The problem is: Rock/Cena should have never been given 30 minutes. Am I sorry they gave it so much time? Strangely, no. Because the match still FEELs important, even if it's not great. I just wish they planned it better. For 12 months of build, they could have worked out every aspect of the match to a tee, from the beginning to the middle to the false finishes. They had no excuse to fuck this up. Creative, Cena, Rock, anyone should have been able to make this great.

Had the match been given only 20 minutes, then it would have felt short, even if it was a great match.

That said, the match is solid. The beginning exchanges are good, the bearhugs are awful, Rock sucks wind like there's no tomorrow, and many of the false finishes are pretty obvious. There are some nice surprises, like Rock's punches being countered into an FU, and of course the finish, but this match ends just as it's getting started.

A year ago, I was extremely let down, now I just see the match as a solid main event and a decent main event for WM.

***1/4


*Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar*
This match is solid. This is one of those odd in-between matches, where I can understand why people were underwhelmed, but also understand why people were satisifed. Part of the problem is that once you again, you have a dream match with 10 years of anticipation behind it. People wanted to see this back when Brock debuted, right after SummerSlam 2002, when it was rumored in 2004 to main event WM 21, and ever since.

Given that they gave it about four months of buildup, it's a dream match, and physical potential there, the resulting match is somewhat of a letdown.

Physically, though, it's all there. Brock beating the hell out of HHH, going for the kimura lock, HHH going for the stomach, the interesting balance between realistic brawl and wrestling match, this match is rock solid. It's never boring, even when the crowd quiets, and the finish is certainly shocking. Lesnar no-selling the pedigree and then making HHH tap?!?

But the finishing exchanges, while good, were never that shocking. This would have made for a good main event for a B-PPV, but for the second-biggest ppv of the year, 18 minutes for an epic dream match main eventing SS should have felt huge.

I think they wanted to leave room to continue the feud, and so they have. The rematch can get more time, amp up the brutality, and finish this feud (or at least take it to the next level).

***3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK-GAME is ballin', could watch that shit 7 days a week if I had to. It's my #3 WWE match of 2012 with nothing I could possibly see overtaking it. Brock is so boss in that match that I don't even know where to start (OH WAIT YES I DO... GLOVES.... OFF) while GAME played his role pretty awesome as well, classic all the way for me and only BROCK/Cena and Punk/Bryan are better.

Rock/Cena ? I didn't that it was THAT good but I'm a fan of it all things considered which is really strange coming from me. That's the power of WWE's ultimate troll John Cena for you.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Rock wasn't bad, just a bit too long for my liking. Re-watched HHH/Lesnar again. Thought it was good, bordering on very good, but not great. Should be better at Mania with a gimmick, more violence and bigger spots.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I wonder if Brock/HHH would even make my top 50 for 2012. I have it sitting at ***, but not sure I can even recall 50 matches, let alone 50 ***+ matches. Here are matches I know I'd take above it off the top of my head (not in order of best-worst):

Punk/Ziggler RR
Bryan/Henry/Show RR Cage
Cena/Kane RR
Raw EC
SD EC
Punk/Bryan Raw in March
Taker/HHH WM28
Kane/Orton W28
Punk/Jericho WM28
Rock/Cena WM28
Punk/Henry Raw 4/2/12
Punk/Henry Raw 4/16/12
Punk/Jericho ER
Bryan/Sheamus ER
Lesnar/Cena ER
Punk/Bryan OTL
Sheamus/Orton/Del Rio/Jericho OTL
Punk/Bryan/Kane NWO
Sheamus/Ziggler NWO
SD MITB
Punk/Cena Raw 1000
Jericho/Ziggler SS
Bryan/Kane SS
Punk/Sheamus Main Event
Punk/Cena NOC
Barrett/Sheamus Main Event
Sheamus/Show HIAC
Barrett/Kofi Raw after Survivor Series
Cesaro/Barrett/Kofi/Truth Raw US Title Match
Shield/Team Hell No and Kane

Okay, so it wouldn't crack top 30, but it's got a pretty good shot at top 50 (though those aren't necessarily my top 30 matches of 2012, just the ones that stuck out to me for various reasons that I know I'd put above Lesnar/HHH).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> Taker/HHH WM28
> Punk/Jericho WM28
> Punk/Jericho ER
> Lesnar/Cena ER
> ...


I did not care for Trips/Lesnar the first time, but upon rewatching, enjoyed a good bit more. That said, I put these matches above it. I really enjoyed the Punk/Jericho matches and Punk/Bryan, but Trips/Taker at Mania really does it for me. Not a technical match but that story is so emotional and those three guys told the story they needed to.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Downloading Sheamus-DOLPH now so I can gain a better perspective on my top WWE matches of 2012, a top 25 in the cards for me perhaps ? Fuck, I'm putting alot on my plate as a random wrestling review kind of guy..... If I didn't despise Ryback so much I'd probably say his catchphrase right now, but I hate him so NO.

MEH, most are just side projects that will slowly, slowly move along until I complete them in the coming months, main priority now is to acquire/watch as many shows and DVDs as possible and to just enjoy the fuck out of throwing stars at shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> BENOIT AND MENG :mark:
> 
> Wish Meng stuck around in WWE for longer than he did when he returned in 01. Imagine if he was still there in 06. FINLAY VS MENG. BENOIT VS MENG. REGAL VS MENG. JBL VS MENG. MARK HENRY VS MENG.


God DAMN don't make me wish it had potential. Always get a sad face when Haku returned in 2001 only to be used on the C list shows and do zero with the company. He couldn't even work vs Undertaker in a singles? (or did he?) Boourns.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Throw me some stars, big guy. Pretty sure I have that show on tape.


Steven Regal vs Ultimo Dragon ~ **** (SPEAKS FOR ITSELF :mark

Madusa vs Luna Vachon ~ * (short and sweet kind of deal. No harm no foul really)

Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Yuji Yasuraoka ~ *** (Good lengthy match. Unusually it was Rey's lack of selling of the leg that brought down my rating. Good stuff nonetheless.)

Mortis vs Glacier ~ DUD (only goes 2 minutes; feud advancer. Served a purpose. I mark for these GIMICKS)

Dean Malenko vs Jeff Jarrett ~ **1/2 (Solid if not a bit whatever at times. Thought it could have been better, but far, far from bad. And fits the curve of the consistency the event brought.)

Chris Benoit vs Meng DEATH MATCH ~ **** (HOLY CRAP)

Steiner Brothers vs Hugh Morrus & Konnan ~ *** (Konnan doesn't manage to make this suck. Rest was smouthmouth goodness. (Y) )

Steve MONGO McMichael vs Reggie White ~ *1/2 (Legit entertaining. I mean it isn't like a "good" match, but with who's involved this was about 100000x better than it should have been. I'm still happily amazed.)

Ric Flair, Roddy Piper, & Kevin Greene vs Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, & Syxx ~ ***3/4 (Pretty damn good southern style 6 man here. No BS to mess things up. It was HOT.)



Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, it rocks. I really dig Meng/Haku for what he is. Speaking of him, WATCH THIS-
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOkpKHGG74
> Goes like two minutes but it just...it just..IT'S AWESOME. The finish is AWESOME, too, and pretty unique. Meng is totally a guy who could use the "I watch bucket loads of random stuff from him on stream sites" treatment.
> 
> ...


Dude, I'm always putting over Meng/Haku. No lie. When it comes to latter WWF in the 80's & subsequently early 90's he is one of my favorites. Has been for quite some time. WCW pushing him circa '97 was probably the best sign of the year outside of Eddie's heel work. I'll watch the match right NOW. :mark:

Fucking rules. As expected. The crowd eating up everything Regal did was bliss.

Too long, sadly. I'm working my way towards it and it still holds up as the best PPV of '97 off the top of my head and one of _(if not tied)_ for my favorite WCW PPV during the Nitro era. I'll buy the opener rocks. Mortis vs Glacier from Uncensored was good. It's not the heels being good that's the surprise. Glacier & Cat pulling their weight, now that's the surprise.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time
​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)
15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)
13. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
12. WWE Championship & Intercontinental Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs Ultimate Warrior(c) (Title vs Title ; Wrestlemania VI)*



*11. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Career Threatening Match ; Wrestlemania XXIV)​**"I'm sorry I love you" Shawn Michaels​*








First off I don't care what anybody says this match was awesome. If you don't know, it is also my favourite match of all time. This match is so close to my heart, my father (who I'm extremely close with) is the biggest Ric Flair fan alive and obviously Shawn as you know is my favourite of all time. Occasionally when we have nothing to do, or we feel down we always put this match on, I swear I know this whole match off by heart. I've probably watched it close to 50-60 times. I know for the large percentage of people this match is tainted when Flair went to TNA, but I can look past it. Once again this match may not be a technical classic like these guys could of produced 15-20 years, but you find me a more emotional match then this, it's one of those matches that just epitomises Wrestlemania. 

It starts with a tie up and chops galore, Flair then forces Michaels into the corner and pushes him and yells "Old yella huh" which gathers a huge slap from HBK. The match continues with huge chops and HBK hits an old trademark turnbuckle move of Flairs where he rolls to the outside and runs to the other corner for a crossbody, which Flair recognises and tosses him to the mat. Flair then goes to the other corner after laying HBK down and hits a crossbody, which was awesome to see him actually hit the move. Then the action rolls to the outside and HBK misses the patterned Wrestlemania moonsault and crashes hard into the announce table, OUCH. Flair drags him back into the ring, which plays into the story of even though his career is on the line he claimed if he can't beat the best inside that ring he doesn't want his career to continue. HBK sold the ribs to perfection well since I'm sure he had broken ribs from that bump. Flair goes after HBK's knee and then locks in the figure four, which HBK desperately makes the ropes. HBK with the fight back and the action again rolls to the outside with HBK hitting this time his moonsault. Back in the ring HBK hits his trademark moves and then sets up for SCM, only to stop just before he was about to hit Flair. This wasn't Shawn Michaels Mr Wrestlemania, at this moment he was Michael Hickenbottom the biggest Ric Flair fan and with that slight hesitation Flair takes advantage and drops him into the figure four. HBK again makes the ropes, then fight backs and locks in his inverted figure four. As Shawn takes the refs attention Flair poked HBK in the eyes. Flair then playing up his dirty player in the game gimmick drags the ref close and low blows HBK, out of sight from the referee. As he drags up HBK, he pushes him away and hits SCM, for a close near fall. The action starts again as they trade chops and suddenly Flair is hit with another superkick, HBK doesn't cover him he goes to the corner to set up another superkick. This is where it gets teary eyed for some, as HBK goes to tune up the band he stops as Flair courageously gets to his feet waiting for his HBK to finish him. HBK words "I'm sorry I love you" and superkicks Flair to end possibly the greatest wrestling career of all time. 

I love everything about this match, and I really want to especially after this view place it in my top 10. The storytelling was glorious, the commentary set it up as such a huge match with Jim Ross stating "If Ric Flair is the greatest of all time, then Shawn Michaels is 1A". Everything was amazing to me the emotion was as high as any match in history. I know Ric stated otherwise, but this should of been the main event the image of Flair leaving should have closed this show. Thank you Ric Flair for being the GOAT and Thank you Shawn for being 1A. All things considered this will always be my favourite match of all time and the 11 greatest match in Wrestlemania History.​
***** 1/2​*


*10. Undertaker vs Triple H w/ Shawn Michaels Special Referee ( Hell in a Cell ; Wrestlemania XXVIII)​*
*"Give me my vengeance and I'll give you one more shot at immortality" Undertaker​*










Wow what a spectacle this was, it was about as close as you get to a soap opera inside that ring. I feel truly blessed I got to witness this live, it's one of the greatest experiences I've ever had in my entire life. First off the storyline is one of the greatest ever, it dated back all the way to Wrestlemania 24, for people being so critical of the story lines in WWE this one was absolutely perfect. At Wrestlemania 27, Undertaker narrowly won but felt otherwise as HHH was the only one who left the arena on his own feet. Which forced Undertaker to come out and ask HHH for a rematch "Give me my vengeance and I'll give you one more shot at immortality" in which HHH declined being a business man he saw no reason to break a vital part of Wrestlemania the streak. The next week HHH best friend HBK came out and called HHH a coward "When a man calls you out and you decline, that makes you a coward" in which HHH still declined the offer. It took Undertaker to come out and say HBK was always better then HHH for him to accept but not only accept but make a stipulation fitting of the end of an era "You want an end you got it, Hell in a Cell!" with Shawn Michaels as the special guest referee. 

The entrances just felt like such a huge deal they even brought Jim Ross to commentate a guy who has been ringside for more matches between these guys then anybody. For Christ sake the Cell got its own entrance music everything was made out to be so epic in this match. I gotta say Undertakers entrance is absolutely breathtaking its just something you have to witness. The match starts off with both guys just throwing bombs no holds just 2 guys beating the crap out of each other. Things started off slow as they brawled around the cell and Taker got the upper hand. They begin to bring in weapons, first with the steel steps which HHH drops taker onto with a spinebuster. HHH brings in a steel chair and destroys taker's back, as HBK looks concerned for taker. HBK wants to end the match, as HHH repeats you end it or I will. HHH then grabs his sledgehammer and measures a shot heading for takers head, but HBK grabs the hammer and stops it. As HBK thinks about ending it Taker puts him in hells gate until HHH drops a sledgehammer shot on him. With HBK down, Charles Robinson runs down and comes to officiate but gets drop by Taker. Taker then sets up a tombstone on HHH but he pushes him into SCM and then a pedigree 1,2...... Kick out, the crowd went absolutely crazy for this near fall it was deafening. HBK drops down to the corner and nearly cries about what he just did. Undertaker sits up and the crowd goes even more crazy.The next 5 minutes we see a lot of brawling and the occasionally finisher kick out "This is awesome" the crowd chanted. Until we reach the end with HHH goes to grab his hammer only to be stepped on by Taker, then HHH floats over to the corner and in his last act of defiance he does the DX crotch chop. One sledgehammer shot from Taker and the tombstone and that's it's, the end of an era. 

HHH is lying on the mat as HBK and taker have a moment to conjure what just happened as they look down and pick up the body of HHH. As they steadily walk up the ramp the crowd gives the 3 longest tenured stars in WWE history a round of applause as they hug. This is my favourite Wrestlemania moment of all time, something I won't forget 3 of the most respected stars ever giving absolutely everything they have for the company they love. The image above is something I will tell my kids about , 3 guys I have grew up watching there will never be another HHH or a Shawn Michaels and certainly not another Undertaker. People may have came to see John Cena vs The Rock, but there was only one match they were talking about when it was over and that's the 10th greatest match in Wrestlemania History. 

***** 1/2*​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> I'll buy the opener rocks. Mortis vs Glacier from Uncensored was good. It's not the heels being good that's the surprise. Glacier & Cat pulling their weight, now that's the surprise.


Watched it again for the hell of it and it's even better than remembered. Glacier and Miller look like an honest-to-God TRUE experienced tag team and mesh so well together. They're hot Houses O' Fire in this and they have multiple little faux-'holy shit' things going on, one after another. Wrath and Kanyon do something with a chair that I won't spoil, but it's tremendous. The stars just aligned and everything fell into place to make this as fun as it was. It's just such a blast. No, FUCK that 'blast' or 'fun' stuff (even though it is), it's legitimately "very good". 40,000/100.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now you're making me want to jump ahead and screw watching these Nitros atm. :mark:

Mortis killed Glacier with a GREAT spot involving the steps at Slamboree. Only imagining what could have come via chair.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

watched halloween havoc 1999 last night

downloading WM17 right now along with all wwe 1998 raws


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thoughts on that tag team championship match or the wonderfully booked World Championship matches? 8*D

Almost sure Eddie/Saturn & DDP/Flair were worth seeing.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

LOVED both matches, IMHOHAYLEY. 

right now HIGH KENNY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Knew they had to hold up. 

HIGH KENNY should go watch Slamboree '97. b/c after I was on the fence in my post telling you about it, I'm confirmed that it does indeed rule. Not sure if you did nab it via download yet.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

is it on youtube?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dailymotion. 

Quality isn't grand. Good enough to view at least.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wait actually i should have that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thought you said something about nabbing the '97 PPVs. If not, Dailymotion could be your hook up.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i've got it. what stands out


----------



## CMPUNK2014 (Jan 22, 2013)

*What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

What WWE DVD would you like to see them create? Best of tag teams in history I would love to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> i've got it. what stands out





HayleySabin said:


> Steven Regal vs Ultimo Dragon ~ **** (SPEAKS FOR ITSELF :mark
> 
> Madusa vs Luna Vachon ~ * (short and sweet kind of deal. No harm no foul really)
> 
> ...


Certainly Regal/Ultimo, Benoit/Meng, & WCW/Wolfpac were the top dogs on this night. Rest converged nicely. I still can't believe the Mongo match worked, tbhayley.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark: look forward to LORD regal vs ultimo dragon


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE KNOWN AS "LORD" ANYMORE!

You'll see what I mean.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

not sure if HIGH KENNY will last though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Milk the most out of HIGH KENNY imo.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

oh im trying. i also have uni work to do lol


----------



## King Gimp (Mar 31, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

I have wanted a Triple H biography for ages. Guess we're getting that.

Can't wait. Going to be a great DVD for sure.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

Rise And Fall Of Chris Benoit


----------



## Ryan (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

I want to see them showcase managers and valets, I don't believe we've seen that before.


----------



## GE 7 (Mar 4, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*



Ryan said:


> I want to see them showcase managers and valets, I don't believe we've seen that before.


Actually WWE made one a few years ago, here is an Amazon link.
Good one by the way, give it a shot.


----------



## Buckley (Apr 19, 2011)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

I want another "Beyond the Mat" type of documentary. Was probably the best WWE/wrestling documentary ever.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*



King Gimp said:


> I have wanted a Triple H biography for ages. Guess we're getting that.
> 
> Can't wait. Going to be a great DVD for sure.


Agreed. The King Of Kings one they put out about 4 years ago wasn't very in depth. 

I'd also really like to see a 'week in the life of' kind of thing. So cameras follow round a superstar for a week. I think that would be really interesting to see all the backstage goings-on, preparing for a match, even just travelling etc. I think I heard Orton's 'Evolution Of A Predator' is sort of like that. Not sure.


----------



## GE 7 (Mar 4, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

I wish one day they will make a DVD about real backstage rivalries, the same idea like Bret and Shawn DVD but without the interview just stories from trustworthy sources like Mean Gene and JR.
I want to know more about The Rock and Shawn Michaels rivalry, Hogan and Macho Man, Booker T and Batista... etc.


----------



## Ryan (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*



GE 7 said:


> Actually WWE made one a few years ago, here is an Amazon link.
> Good one by the way, give it a shot.


Thanks dude, never seen that one before will be picking it up.


----------



## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

Complete history of WWE. One that educates the newer fans about the rich history of pro wrestling and WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*



TheGreatBanana said:


> Complete history of WWE. One that educates the newer fans about the rich history of pro wrestling and WWE.


There is a 'History Of The WWE' DVD on this years' DVD schedule.

Probably be cancelled/postponed though...


----------



## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*



zep81 said:


> There is a 'History Of The WWE' DVD on this years' DVD schedule.
> 
> Probably be cancelled/postponed though...


I'm looking forward to that, hope it is released. 

I really feel that WWE has to educate their audience about its history. That's one of the benefits of having a WWE network, since it allows a rich amount of programming to teach the current fans about the past. It's going to make them into bigger fans if they appreciate the past.


----------



## kiguel182 (Jan 8, 2013)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

I would like a DVD where wrestlers review and talk about their best matches in a non-kayfabe way. A cool behind the scenes of the best WWE matches and how they came to be.


----------



## Randy Ravishing (Feb 2, 2011)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

I want a DVD about the Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase!

Also they should produce a new Macho Man -DVD-Set, with comments from actual and past wrestlers, family...


----------



## afender. (Apr 6, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

The rise and fall of Linda McMahon and 100 million dollars


----------



## 21 - 1 (Jan 8, 2010)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

A real Undertaker biography and retrospective. The closest was probably Tombstone but that was years ago and WWE's biographies/documentaries have come on leaps and bounds since then. It would be a fantastic watch, especially if we got to see a little bit of the guy behind the Undertaker in there.


----------



## My Pet Pikachu (May 7, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*



MoxleyMoxx said:


> Rise And Fall Of Chris Benoit


LOL, good luck there!


----------



## My Pet Pikachu (May 7, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

I want a Behind-The-Scenes DVD, I have no idea why.


----------



## SHUDEYE (May 5, 2009)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

Punk and Jericho were the two stick-out ones for me but they both just got theirs made recently. There's no one else on the roster that hasn't had a DVD made recently, deserves one or that I give a fuck about.

I'd love them to do entire years in a DVD collection. Like a multi-disk 2003 collection for example with every episode, etc. But in some ways that's a bit too much, other than that there's nothing really. They've covered a lot of bases in recent years.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

When Bret Hart had his previous DVD set released in 2005, there was nothing, but brutal honesty from him as well as some unease after burying the hatchet with Vince.

Fast forward to now with The elder, but dignified Hitman picking up where he left off with The Dungeon Collection. This time with him having peace of mind. He goes over these handpicked matches (I forgot how good the KOTR match with Diesel was!) before they're shown and he also tells some great stories like a grandfather would about the days of yore.

I really enjoyed this layout and hope for more Unreleased Matches from other great Superstars giving their thoughts on their past work. The presentation ends with Bret doing what any wrestling fan would do: staying at home watching classic matches on a big ass HDTV! 

Edit: Man, its so weird to hear "WWF" being said again. 

- Vic


----------



## Wealdstone Raider (Jan 3, 2013)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

Brodus Clay and Tensai present: WWE's greatest dancers


----------



## DualShock (Jan 9, 2012)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

Undertaker Ministry of Darkness Era

It would be also great to have a new Attitude Era DVD with a better and longer documentary


----------



## nevereveragainu (Nov 22, 2011)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

every single tv episode of every show from every hard copy they have in their library


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So after watching his match with Punk from RAW the other week, I was in a mood for some John Cena. I started watching some matches from *The John Cena Experience. *Holy shit was it a bad idea. The matches I chose were either bland, average, or total shit.

vs. Booker T (_No Mercy '04_) - ** (Really, really average match. No redeeming qualities to make it stand out or wanna be watched again. Finish sucked. I would've replaced it with his Wrestlemania XX match with Big Show)

vs. Edge (_Tribute To The Troops '06_) - ** 3/4 (Actually a pretty decent match here. Felt like it was on a house show with all the playing to the crowd. Good control segment from Edge, my only problem was the finish. As it is quite a bit with Cena matches...)

w/ Shawn Michaels vs. Edge & Randy Orton (_RAW 2/26/07_) - ** 1/2 (Run of the mill TV tag match here. The only thing this did was spark the breakup of Rated RKO, so I have no clue why this made the set. What should've been here instead? WRESTLEMANIA 23)

Falls Count Anywhere vs. The Great Khali (_One Night Stand '07_) - * (Fuckin awful match. Khali is obviously terrible & Cena had to oversell his offense just to make it look good. Even the finish sucked since Khali was already trying to get up when Cena pinned him. Not even sure why I gave it any rating, tbh.)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I was in a mood for some John Cena.


Next time, have a second thought


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching the Bret/Shawn Iron Man match. Consider yourself lucky that you watched some shitty Cena matches :|.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

Something fantastic would be if they released all the Raws and Smackdowns from each year. Most people have the PPVs so they can leave those off. But it would be great.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> When was the last time you watched Bash at the Beach 97? I shit you not (and everyone who watched it a year ago will back me up if they read this), Glacier/Mortis v Wrath/The Cat is totally unreal.


*Watch this match people. Watch it.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I agree with Yeah and Seabs. Match needs to be watched!!!


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So after watching his match with Punk from RAW the other week, I was in a mood for some John Cena. I started watching some matches from *The John Cena Experience. *Holy shit was it a bad idea. The matches I chose were either bland, average, or total shit.
> 
> vs. Booker T (_No Mercy '04_) - ** (Really, really average match. No redeeming qualities to make it stand out or wanna be watched again. Finish sucked. I would've replaced it with his Wrestlemania XX match with Big Show)
> 
> ...


I can understand you being disappointed in the first three, but why would you choose to watch Cena/Khali in a Cena marathon? :lol



Big Z said:


> Watching the Bret/Shawn Iron Man match. Consider yourself lucky that you watched some shitty Cena matches :|.


This is true. I've sat through that match four or five times to try and "get it". It was boring in 96, it's possibly worse now since I've over analysed it a few times.



Seabs said:


> *Watch this match people. Watch it.*


Bored so I'm going to watch this now.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I feel sorry for anyone who watches Bret vs Shawn Ironman, and even sorrier for anyone who rates it highly.


Couple of matches I've seen in the previous days.

Minnesota Wrecking Crew (Arn&Ole) vs 'Wahoo' McDaniel & Billy Jack Haynes Starrcade 85 ***. Tad too short, but a good, quick fun tag match.
Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes Starrcade 85 ***1/4. Hopefully I'll come across a match worthy of their intense rivalry soon. Past 2 Starrcade main events have been missing something.
The Koloffs vs Rock 'n' Roll Express Starrcade 85 ***1/2. Great fun cage match.
Tully Blanchard vs Ricky Morton Worldwide 19/9/87 ***3/4. If I got a hold of the match without adverts, it should definately be even better.
Wahoo McDaniel vs Ric Flair Battle of the Belts 1 ****3/4. Extraordinary match-up on the rewatch. Picked up a few little things that I didn't see on the first viewing. 
Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A Starrcade 85 *****. Watched this 3 times. Every time, glued to the screen for the final 5-6 minutes. Flawless performance from both men.

On the rewrite of my big, mega catalogue of matches, two five stars, both featuring Blanchard.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Next time, have a second thought


Or just watch matches where he's with good workers.



BLACKANDRE said:


> I can understand you being disappointed in the first three, but why would you choose to watch Cena/Khali in a Cena marathon? :lol


Idk, could a swore someone in here was praising it at some point (Cal maybe?) but that might've been thier other PPV match. Either way I said what the hell, maybe it'll be better than I remembered... It wasn't.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Judgement Day '07 is the Cena/Khali match to watch Jack. Great Cena babyface performance, strong bumping and selling, does everything he can to sell Khali as the insurmountable brick wall and the minute he gets Khali caught in the ropes his facial expression and flurried offence really puts over the prior work. Doesn't even go 10 minutes iirc so the pace moves fluidly, there's no downtime, Cena's bumping and selling is good enough to make Khali's languid offence passable in moving the story along. Just a faultless Cena display.

I'll watch that tag later on if I get chance.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What actually is Khali's best match? There surely can't be many to choose from.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Pretty sure Cal considers the LMS match vs Taker on Smackdown to be Khali's best effort. Been too long since I've seen it to accurately recall whether it is the best of his career, but I remember Taker selling very well for him and building Khali up as the obstacle he desperately had to find numerous ways to overcome.

From what I've seen that is fresh in my memory, Cena/Khali Judgement Day is probably his best. Cena does an equally great job at just making Khali the base for him to work off of, throwing himself about and making his task look helpless. Khali really doesn't do much outside of some basic offence to keep Cena grounded.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Both John Cena: My Life and The John Cena Experience have some shitty matches on them.

WWE must be holding back on some big Cena collection cause it's mind boggling how there's no Cena/HBK, Cena/Umaga, Cena/Ortons, Cena/Trips, Cena/Nothing!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sure as hell wasn't me pimping any Khali/Cena match . I'm not a fan of them. Khali/Undertaker LMS blows away any other Khlai match imo.

Well I did it! I made it through the Bret/Shawn Iron Man match. I think I need to watch the first HIAC now. You know, wash away the awfulness of the Iron Man with the greatest match ever .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Best Khali matches huh? 

Khali/Taker LMS and Khali/Batista Punjabi Prison.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Wahoo McDaniel vs Ric Flair Battle of the Belts 1 ****3/4. Extraordinary match-up on the rewatch. Picked up a few little things that I didn't see on the first viewing.
> 
> Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A Starrcade 85 *****. Watched this 3 times. Every time, glued to the screen for the final 5-6 minutes. Flawless performance from both men.
> 
> On the rewrite of my big, mega catalogue of matches, two five stars, both featuring Blanchard.


Great to see you dug both that much. Both are US classics and definitely up there with the best stuff from that decade, which had an insane number of classic matches.

Blanchard/Magnum in particular really is just an exceptional match with a timeless feel to the work. Everytime I watch it I feel the same and find certain things to appreciate about it. Perfectly paced, great offence from both, a passionate crowd and the hatred for each other is perfectly communicated.

Flair/Wahoo is a top 5 Flair defence ever imo, which is really saying something. If you can track down the Flair/Kerry Von Erich 10/12/85 Hawaii encounter then that's another overlooked Flair match that doesn't get talked about as much compared to his more famed matches but it is up there with the best of them.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Best Khali matches huh?
> 
> Khali/Taker LMS and *Khali/Batista Punjabi Prison.*


Lol, I remember that. Was that the second one? Didn't the first one supposed to have Khali in but they pulled him out and put Taker in instead? I think Khali was ill or something.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Best Khali match ever? SD Elimination Chamber '12 or Royal Rumble Match '07 8*D

I suppose it's Khali one-on-one matches that count only, if that so it's definitely Khali/Batista Punjabi Prison. That shit was 100x better than it had any right to be.

EDIT~: For curiosity sakes, how many ***** rated matches do you have?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I remember watching the PPV live and I actually marked a little bit for the jump from BIG DAVE


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

*Mortis and Wrath vs Glacier and the Cat*

Wow. So I just watched that tag match thinking that I was being ribbed or that it was some kind of inside joke. That was actually fucking excellent.

I particularly liked the way that the build to each collar and elbow tie up was prefaced with an air of insurmountable tension. Having said that, most of the time the two teams were just hammering each other. These two teams really did a good job of putting over the hatred that they had for each other. Glacier in particular showed a real mean streak with the use of the top rope when crotching Mortis, that (along with some solid strikes and a hard take down) really conveyed his pissed off demeanor early on in the match.

I was surprised to see Bryan Clark put in such an imaginative display (for him). The walk across the middle rope for the elbow drop, the senton off the apron and the reverse Boston crab (setting up the leg drop from Mortis) surprised me. I'm not a moves guy but it was nice to see a limited big like him pull out all of the stops for a special occasion, it added a certain flair to the match.

That last move leads into my next point about team work. Both teams showed great cohesion and chemistry which included Glacier holding off Wrath with his stance, thus allowing the Ernest "the Car" Miller (fucking typo, but sounds funny leaving it in) to attack from the top rope. The heelish chair attack on Glacier from Wrath and Mortis was also excellent.

I appreciated how Miller held off his ultimate flurry of spin kicks until the final furlong of the match, by doing that he just seemed to make them seem even more impactful (is that even a word?) which was reflected by the hot crowd which lapped it up.

The ending with the chain was also very clever and was only compounded by the managerial interference which included placing the foot on the rope. They got some solid heat out of that. The finish also made Glacier and the Cat seem heroic in defeat in what was essentially a fight rather than a wrestling match.

Some of the spots were a little sloppy/contrived (an example being Wrath's bumping of his opponent's heads) but overall it was an enthralling all out war involving four workers who are/were usually run of the mill (Kanyon aside). A pleasant surprise.

Probably a bit tl;dr but I was bored. Now you are... 

****3/4*



As for Khali, the only "passable" match of his that I can remember is the one with Kane at Mania XXIII. I just enjoyed how they implemented the hook/chain in that match, it also gave the two guys a good excuse to cover their lack of combined pace.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Lol, I remember that. Was that the second one? Didn't the first one supposed to have Khali in but they pulled him out and put Taker in instead? I think Khali was ill or something.


The one you are thinking of was from the GAB 06, Undertaker Vs Khali was scheduled, but Khali like a number of guys set to compete that night were pulled from the show due to elevated enzymes, so Khali was replaced by The Big Show . I'm like the only person in existence to think it was a decent match too .

:mark: at BLACKANDRE loving that tag match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> The one you are thinking of was from the GAB 06, Undertaker Vs Khali was scheduled, but Khali like a number of guys set to compete that night were pulled from the show due to elevated enzymes, so Khali was replaced by The Big Show . I'm like the only person in existence to think it was a decent match too .


Thanks Cal, I thought it was something like that. (Y)

Will we ever see another Punjabi Prison match? Somehow I can't see something like Cena vs Punk inside it lol.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Great to see you dug both that much. Both are US classics and definitely up there with the best stuff from that decade, which had an insane number of classic matches.
> 
> Blanchard/Magnum in particular really is just an exceptional match with a timeless feel to the work. Everytime I watch it I feel the same and find certain things to appreciate about it. Perfectly paced, great offence from both, a passionate crowd and the hatred for each other is perfectly communicated.
> 
> Flair/Wahoo is a top 5 Flair defence ever imo, which is really saying something. *If you can track down the Flair/Kerry Von Erich 10/12/85 Hawaii encounter then that's another overlooked Flair match that doesn't get talked about as much compared to his more famed matches but it is up there with the best of them.*


I believe I've seen that somewhere on a comp. But that comp was an .iso file and with some pretty useless stuff. Is it a particular fed?

The I Quit/Steel Cage match has inspired me to look and find more of Blanchard's work. There are times I wonder, how would I work as a wrestler. And there are a few things I see, that Blanchard does, and does exceptionally. He is just very diverse with a great mind. I have his match with Dusty from NWA Worldwide. Not sure on the date, however.

For Wahoo/Flair, I tend to put things together with words, but this one is very tricky. A match with a lot of undertones, that are still difficult to disect. In whole, the match is almost flawless. It would probably be just flawless with either watching more, and more wrestling matches, or rewatching it. I'll go with the former, don't want to lose the touch of this match. Over time, it'll definately stand out.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Watched this match this morning. I marked out as it's between two of my favorites & the two men that I probably have in the Top 3 all-time, so I thought I would share:








I wasn't even two-years-old yet when this match happened!



Spoiler: don't read this until you have watched the match



All Japan was really good about protecting guys. Although there are a ton of great matches from them, especially in the early 90's involving guys like Misawa, Kawada & Kobashi, when it came to guys like Funk, Hansen, Vader & André they went out of their way to make them keep their heat, mystique & look strong. So in that regard, the fuck finish didn't surprise me. What came afterward certainly did. Funk wearing the proverbial crimson mask is nothing new but the hanging of him looked like a goddamn murder scene. So intense.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I believe I've seen that somewhere on a comp. But that comp was an .iso file and with some pretty useless stuff. Is it a particular fed?
> 
> The I Quit/Steel Cage match has inspired me to look and find more of Blanchard's work. There are times I wonder, how would I work as a wrestler. And there are a few things I see, that Blanchard does, and does exceptionally. He is just very diverse with a great mind. I have his match with Dusty from NWA Worldwide. Not sure on the date, however.
> 
> For Wahoo/Flair, I tend to put things together with words, but this one is very tricky. A match with a lot of undertones, that are still difficult to disect. In whole, the match is almost flawless. It would probably be just flawless with either watching more, and more wrestling matches, or rewatching it. I'll go with the former, don't want to lose the touch of this match. Over time, it'll definately stand out.


Blanchard really gets overlooked but he was a fantastic worker with a great mind in perfecting his craft. A very able and gifted performer able to be theatrical when the time called for it and milk a crowd whilst also transitioning to a more rugged and physical style when the occasion called for it. His work w/ Arn in the Brainbusters in WWF is really great, especially the Rockers series (particularly 1/23/89 & 3/18/89 Boston).

All I've ever seen is it took place in Hawaii for the NWA Title tbh. Here's the match though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFjY70RO1Hk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs2SqrXQy8s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-uH5grRHmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVNx6N05bLQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqoB_cetVdQ



Coffey said:


> Watched this match this morning. I marked out as it's between two of my favorites & the two men that I probably have in the Top 3 all-time, so I thought I would share:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Its been a while since I last saw that but at the time I thought it was outstanding and one of the better All Japan matches from the decade. The Funks/Hansen & Gordy tag from 8/31/83 is also one of the more emotional and poignant matches ever wrestled in Japan and another demonstration of the chemistry Funk & Hansen had with one another. They really feel like two old timers in a Texas town duking it out one last time in that match and its beautiful.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*1996 Royal Rumble Match
*For the sakes of it, I'm having a Top 200 GOAT WWE Matches project now, and I'm searching for hidden gems that may be on their way to it. There are three RR matches already guaranteed on it (the obvious ones - 1992, 2001 and 2004), and while 1996 won't be on it, it's damn sure close to the title. What a fucking Rumble. Surely one of the most underrated ones in history. Heard some praise of it on the internet, and since the only I knew of it was HBK winning, I decided to take a look. Well, whaddaya know. It was AWESOME. From Vader making one of the best debuts ever, to him going berzerk all over Yokozuna (DEM GOAT SUPERHEAVYWEIGHTS ALONG WITH TAKER, KANE AND HENRY), to DA RINGMASTAH ( :mark: ), to Diesel going mad on the wrestlers except for HBK, to Snake returning after having a conversation with Austin 3:16 God and John 3:16... wow. Didn't have all the starpower in the world, but it had great enough action for me to consider having it on my Top 200. Pretty sure it may not happen, but if it did, it deserved. Most underrated RR match EVAH. *****1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

96 rumble is one of my favourites, totally love the match. Made my top 10 (Rumble matches).


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Man, I love you guys in this section. That Blunchard/Magnum TA match is going to give me nightmares. The selling is just phenomenal! Perfectly executed match. Ever after the match Blaachard is still screaming in pain. Just nasty!

I loved the finishing sequence. Less is more! Who would have thought that they could have gotten so much mileage out of fighting over a piece of wood.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

1992 and 2001 (Kane's performance) are my personal favourite Rumbles. Ironically enough the 96 match is one of the few that I don't have on dvd. I'll have to see if it's still floating about on silvervision. 

I haven't watched the whole pay per view since I had it on VHS back in the day. I do remember the Bret/Taker match being long winded, illogical and having an unsatisfactory ending (although it did set up a good spot during the very good Bret/Diesel Cage match at IYH 6 where Taker got his revenge, thus setting up the also good Diesel/Taker match at Mania XII), other than that I don't remember much of that event.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Blanchard really gets overlooked but he was a fantastic worker with a great mind in perfecting his craft. A very able and gifted performer able to be theatrical when the time called for it and milk a crowd whilst also transitioning to a more rugged and physical style when the occasion called for it. His work w/ Arn in the Brainbusters in WWF is really great, especially the Rockers series (particularly 1/23/89 & 3/18/89 Boston).
> 
> All I've ever seen is it took place in Hawaii for the NWA Title tbh. Here's the match though:
> 
> ...


Finished up the 2nd part, now I've been called out. Frustrating. Some quick thought of what I thought so far. Lost some concentration during one of headlock exchanges roughly 10-12 minutes into the match. I have enjoyed the pace and psychology applied by both men thus far. But thats about it, since I haven't delved into the latter half.  I look forward to finishing it up later, cheers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1992 and 2001 are the GOAT Rumbles and my favourite ones too. Kane being DEM UNSTOPPABLE MACHINE he became famous for when he was tormenting Taker in the 01 one was fantastic. Both of them (along 2004) are the Rumbles I have in my Top 200 GOAT WWE Matches ever (pondering 2007 in that list too). 

The 96 RR PPV itself anything special is not. Other than the great Rumble match, you won't find anything else that may please you. Sure, Bret/Taker is alright, but they bested that by miles a year later.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

2001 Rumble will always be my favourite. Of course Kane was awesome, plus there was some hardcore stuff (which you don't usually see in Rumbles) plus Drew Carey! Him trying to bribe Kane is one of my funniest wrestling moments. :lol


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

ATF said:


> For the sakes of it, I'm having a Top 200 GOAT WWE Matches project now


I'm working on a top 20 all-time list of wrestlers, so I have a reference point when it comes up. Apparently I am the king of procrastination. I should really re-evaluate my life. :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SO I randomly just started downloading Halloween Havoc 1996.

I have absolutely no fucking idea what's on it, if it's good or if it's bad, but all this WWE talk has got me craving some of that shit. Just read one review and it said that the PPV was atrocious and the only thing worth watching is the opener.

REALLY ? DDP vs Eddie is on there I'm pretty sure, same with Faces of Fear vs Mongo/BENOIT. Is it really that bad ? Somehow I doubt this and that these reviewers are fucking morons, but it could be me who is wrong.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Coffey said:


> I'm working on a top 20 all-time list of wrestlers, so I have a reference point when it comes up. Apparently I am the king of procrastination. I should really re-evaluate my life. :lol


LOL, well see the positive side of it - these are lists of GOOD things, not bad ones


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Thanks to Cal I've finally started ECW 09


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

ATF said:


> LOL, well see the positive side of it - these are lists of GOOD things, not bad ones


It brings out my inner geek. I have no problem doing it. It gives me something to do that entertains me while I have free time. It's no different in my eyes than watching a TV show, DVD or killing time on the internet. As long as I'm not doing it over something else that I should be doing, I'm OK!

It's the little exercises that pop-up which make me realize how hard it really is. I'm trying to put twenty guys in order. I struggle with little groups of three!

Put these in order of best to worst:

Tully Blanchard
Arn Anderson
Barry Windham

Randy Savage
Ricky Steamboat
Rick Rude

Ted DiBiase
Bret Hart
Eddie Guerrero

Brian Pillman
Jushin Liger
Rey Mysterio, Jr.

It's definitely not easy! It seems like it will be an ever-changing, ever-evolving sort of thing that changes with the most stuff I see & with my tastes changing depending on the day.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Platt said:


> Thanks to Cal I've finally started ECW 09


Morrison/Bourne from 4/14/09 is really stellar, Cal already alluded to it but its a great match. Shame Bourne is an idiot with getting suspended because there's maybe 3 guys in the company who are better babyface workers than him when he's on form.

Cal didn't cover this one, but when you get around to the Apri 7th show Bourne & The Colons vs Miz, Morrison & Kidd is a really fun match. Nothing outstanding but everyone gets a chance to shine. Bourne has some great heel in peril comedy by using his speed to evade Kidd and Morrison on the floor, his FIP spell is super and gets the crowd constantly involved, feckin' Miz is pretty sweet kicking the crap out of Bourne and the finishing sequence is fluid, frantic, sees bodies flying and a great eventual double team to score the win.

Plus Swagger/Christian 2/24/09 is sensational and the MOTY.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Arn Anderson
Barry Windham
Tully Blanchard

Randy Savage
Ricky Steamboat
Rick Rude

Bret Hart
Eddie Guerrero
Ted DiBiase

Rey Mysterio, Jr.
Brian Pillman
Jushin Liger

Thought everything there was easy besides Arn/Windham. That blew my fucking mind.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Arn Anderson
> Barry Windham
> Tully Blanchard
> 
> ...


There's very few people I converse with on a daily basis that put Bret at the top of that trio. In fact, I would say most of them would put him at the bottom. That's why it's so hard for me. The Rude pile is exceptionally hard for me as I have all three close to top 10 to begin with...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Arn
Windham
Tully

Steamboat
Savage
Rude

Eddie
Dibiase
Hart

Mysterio
Liger
Pillman

Arn vs Windham was super hard. Windham is a sensational babyface and he was really great as the surly bruiser in his heel run. Arn is just Arn though. Gifted performer, asute babyface and amazing heel, excellent in tags and singles, gimmick matches, 10 minute TV bouts or 25 minute plus PPV encounters, could work the main event, undercard, midcard or wherever you needed him. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone taking Windham ahead of him, but I think its a stylistic preference for me. Hard on Tully, a credit to the other two rather than a disservice to him.

Steamboat over Savage might throw people. I dig Savage as the crazy lunatic in Memphis and WCW and parts of his WWF tenure, but Steamboat as the plucky babyface is hard to knock off top spot for me. People might be inclined to go for the versatility in Savage's career, but for me Steamboat was so great in a variety of settings and able to work a physical and more heated match when he needed to. Rude is a fabulous heel worker and bumper, but he's below Steamboat & Savage.

Eddie speaks for himself. Basically what I said for Arn can be interpreted word for word as what I'd say for Eddie. Dibiase over Bret might shock people. But I've recently glossed back over some of Dibiase's best Mid South work and he's such a great heel I can't put Bret ahead of him. He has great punches, bumps and sells magnificently, captures a crowd's attention and the 11/6/85 match vs Flair highlights his immense talent as a babyface worker. Again, Dibiase's style is far more accessible and interesting to me these days than a Bret match.

Mysterio over Liger due to consistency and the range his career has spanned. Developing from a gifted athlete into a smart and subtle worker in his later years puts him ahead of Liger, who despite a phenomenal peak and wonderful skill in inter-promotional tags just doesn't feel like someone I'd put over Mysterio these days. Again like Arn vs Windham its close and contentious. Pillman much like Rude and Tully is buggered by the competition but he's an excellent babyface worker in the '89-92 period of WCW and against lesser competition would have faired much better than if it were Mysterio & Liger.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a bigger Bret mark than most I would say, and on a second take choosing between him and Eddie is rather difficult. I think both are leaps and bounds ahead of Ted DiBiase though.

Bret and Eddie were just so good at what they did that it's actually insane. Bret worked fantastic as a face throughout essentially his entire career while Eddie was a masterful heel with some of the most disgusting tactics ever used in a match (you could just feel how slimy that mother fucker was at times). Bret worked as a heel in the U.S. in 1997, arguably his best year ever while Eddie worked as a face during his WWE Championship run and had a number of fantastic babyface performances such as NWO vs BROCK and JD vs JBL.

UGH. That one's hard but I'm going with my guy Bret, for now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> Thanks to Cal I've finally started ECW 09


:mark:

Think I'm gonna go watch the next episode... dammit, Christian Vs DH Smith is the opener. I already tried the other night to watch it but let myself be distracted because I fucking hate Smith .


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Arn
> Windham
> Tully
> 
> ...


Your order is a lot closer to mine. I have:

1 Windham
2 Arn
3 Tully

1 Steamboat
2 Rude
3 Savage

1 Eddie
2 DiBiase
3 Hart

1 Myserio
2 Liger
3 Pillman

I like Bret but I think over the years, people have listened to him sell himself as better than he was & have bought into the hype a little bit. The same way people vastly overrate both Shawn Michaels & Kurt Angle. Like, what matches does Bret have in his career that are as good as Eddie Vs. Brock or Eddie Vs. Rey from Halloween Havoc? What are Bret's best matches, even? The first that comes to mind is his match against Austin at Wrestlemania.

Come to think of it, I need to reevaluate Bret Hart as a whole. I remember liking these matches:

Bret Hart Vs. Austin, Wrestlemania
Bret Hart Vs. Bulldog, Summerslam
Bret Hart Vs. Piper, Wrestlemania
Bret Hart Vs. Perfect, Summerslam
Bret Hart Vs. Hakushi, RAW?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best BRET matches ?

vs Austin (WM XIII)
vs Austin (SS 96)
vs Owen (WM X)
vs Mr. Perfect (KOTR 93)
vs Mr. Perfect (SS 91)
vs Diesel (RR 95)
vs Diesel (SS 95)
vs Undertaker (ONO 97)
vs Davey Boy (IYH V)
w/Owen vs The Steiners (WF 94)

+ a ton more, including how he completely carried guys like Jean Pierre Lafitte and The Patriot to damn near classics in 1995 and 1997 respectively. Bret isn't Kurt Angle ; I truly do believe that Bret deserves all the praise in the world.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I _loathe_ the Wrestlemania match with Owen. One of the most overrated matches in wrestling history, in my opinion. Hate that fucking match.

I really want to give props to Dustin Rhodes too but I don't think I can do so in good conscience as pertaining to the list. 

Maybe I should go past 20 just so I can fit more names on there. I don't know yet. I already know some of the marks from WF will give me shit for HBK & Angle not being on it. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arn - What a guy. An incredible tag worker, one of THE best, and great in singles too. Guy has never used a rest hold in his life because he knows how to WORK holds. A rare thing these days it seems.

Windham - Again, what a guy. Good tag worker, but definitely better as a singles guy. He's always described as the most natural athelete/wrestler to ever grace the sport, and it's easy to see why. Guy was looking like one of the greatest when he was still very much a rookie. Shame he didn't have the longevitey of Arn or I would have put him above him. His injury in the early 90's slowed him down a lot, and by the time wrestling really got going again after the down period in the early 90's, he wasn't in the shape he should have been in in order to really make an impact again.

Tully - Not seen as much of the guy as I'd like, but he's still fucking great.


Steamboat - THE babyface imo. He's just incredible. He can work the great underdog style like nobody I've ever seen, and he can bring the HATE when he needs to as well, only wish he'd done more of it in his career. He has great WRESTLING matches with the likes of Flair, FIGHTS with Savage (don't let their WM match fool you, they had some great battles too), and unique matches with Regal. Oh, and the "Rocky" style match with Vader is on of my all time favourite matches ever.

Rude - His early 90's WCW run puts him above Savage for me, just barely. His gimmick was great, he really played up on it in his matches, and he was just an awesome heel. That Steamboat Iron Man match is beautiful.

Savage - I like Savage a lot, I really do, but he has that awful WCW run where he barely did anything good (Not a fan of the DDP matches at all), and he only really had a couple of good years in WWF too imo. They were GOOD years no doubt, matches with Jake, Steamboat and Santana are all worth bringing up, but I felt like it took him a couple of years to get into his groove in WWF and then he only got a couple to show his greatness. Haven't seen his Memphis run yet though, could put him over Rude, but until I see it I won't know.


Eddie - Eddie is probably a top 5 guy for me. Wonderful, fun babyface who could garner plenty of sympathy and crowd support. Great heel who could be the biggest DICK you ever saw, and a catalogue of tremendous matches over the years.

Hart - His matches speak for themselves really. Loved him as a heel in 97, and felt he was underrated on the mic before then too. He wasn't a Mick Foley by any means, but he could get straight to the point and you could feel that he was more real than a lot of guys (possibly because he took this shit more seriously than anyone else lol). 

Dibiase - Great heel no doubt, and some great matches, and a good babyface too from the little I've seen of him in Mid-South. I like him a lot, but he doesn't have too many matches I can think of off the top of my head that would put him above Bret atm.


Mysterio - Consistantly GREAT for a decade in WWE. A really good run in WCW. Awesome babyface. Some incredible fun matches, plenty of great ones too. Really knew how to work his high flying offence into matches without coming across as a MOVES~! or SPOTZ~! guy, and that's hard to do it seems.

Liger - Not seen much of him, but what I have is usually always great. Should check out his stuff and shit.

Pillman - Honestly not too high on Pillman. Loved his Lose Cannon gimmick, but he didn't get much time to do it in WCW, don't give a fuck about ECW (though him wrestling with a giant pencil was hilarious), and he never really got going in WWF due to his ankle injury and then death.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Are you serious ? I'm really interested as to why you hate it so much as I think it's the greatest match in Wrestlemania history and the second best match in WWF/WWE history in general. Owen trying to get out of his brother's shadow and acting like a dweeb, the callback's to the Rumble incident where Bret hurt his leg, technical wrestling with substance and not just style... It's a masterpiece, perplexed as to why anybody would loathe it.

I would actually like to hear your reasoning on this one.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I don't think there's a single Owen Hart match I ever want to watch again. He might be the most overrated wrestler of all-time for me. I think people overrate him because he died pre-maturely, his late name is Hart & he came from the Hart Dungeon. Same with Lance Storm, horribly overrated. I don't like Owen at all & that match is a perfect example of why, to be honest. I could explain why but it's not going to sway any opinions anyway, so what's the point? We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll never watch that match again. It angers me.

This is my list so far but it is still a work in progress. There are some names excluded that I want to squeak in there but don't think I can. I'm also not 100% sold on the order just yet. I might take it out to 25 before the day is out. I think I like Rick Rude more than most, it would seem. Like Big Z said, that WCW run is sick. I still might have him a little too high, admittedly.

20-] Tully Blanchard
19-] Ricky Morton
18-] Jushin Liger
17-] Arn Anderson
16-] Rey Mysterio, Jr.
15-] Big Van Vader
14-] Bret Hart
13-] Randy Savage
12-] Ted DiBiase
11-] Barry Windham
10-] Kenta Kobashi
09-] Jerry Lawler
08-] Eddie Guerrero
07-] Rick Rude
06-] Ricky Steamboat
05-] Mitsuharu Misawa
04-] Toshiaki Kawada
03-] Terry Funk
02-] Ric Flair
01-] Stan Hansen

I do want to name-drop Rick Martel, Tito Santana, Dustin Rhodes, & Curt Hennig. I don't think Shawn is good enough to be there & I know for certain that Angle & Hunter aren't.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Two great shows to start of 2009 for ECW, I could do without the Boogeyman squashes but apart form that a solid lineup. I must say though I'm glad Hardy dropped the strap (and if I remember right leaves ECW soon to feud with Jeff) because I really couldn't of faced him in the main event for months.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't be hating on Matt, Platt! Guy was an awesome workhorse from like 03-09!

Christian Vs David Hart Smith - ECW 16/06/2009

Replay of the finish to the tag match last week. I swear Josh says "Shrack Jagger" at one point too.

God I hope Christian can drag Smith to a good match. Finlay wasn't even capable of it though.

The power of Smith shows itself early on, so Christian being the smart VETERAN slaps the young rookie in the face to get him angry and draws him into the corner where Christian uses his speed to move out of the way and go for a quick cover. A lot of the opening is nice little things like that, as Christian keeps using his experience to counter the power of Smith. And then Smith hits a Rock Bottom like move from the apron to the floor (looked like Christian was supposed to land on the apron... but missed and went straight to the floor lol). This gives Smith the opening he needs to ground Christian and work over the back.

Christian makes a bunch of neat little comebacks, sells the back, and continues to use his speed and experience to try and create an opening. Nice clothesline cut off spot from Smith at one point too.

In the end though, no matter how experienced Christian is, the numbers game with Kidd and Natalya on the outside allows Smith to pick up the win through cheating. BIG win for Smith no doubt. Christian made him look great. Then Finlay comes out to make the save when they look to beat Christian up after the bell. SCARDY CAT chants from some people in the front row lol.

FINLAY DECKS CHRISTIAN! SINGLES MATCH BETWEEN THEM? PLEEEEEAAAAASE? PWEEETTTTTYYY PWEEEEAAASSEEE?

Rating: ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Coffey said:


> I don't think there's a single Owen Hart match I ever want to watch again. He might be the most overrated wrestler of all-time for me. I think people overrate him because he died pre-maturely, his late name is Hart & he came from the Hart Dungeon. Same with Lance Storm, horribly overrated. I don't like Owen at all & that match is a perfect example of why, to be honest. I could explain why but it's not going to sway any opinions anyway, so what's the point? We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll never watch that match again. It angers me.
> 
> This is my list so far but it is still a work in progress. There are some names excluded that I want to squeak in there but don't think I can. I'm also not 100% sold on the order just yet. I might take it out to 25 before the day is out.
> 
> ...


I like it. Flair needs to be number one and Benoit needs to get on this list STAT though. I have more Flair matches @ five stars than the entire WWF/WWE company I'm pretty sure :lol.

Mysterio would probably make it to my top 10 as well, dude is just straight up one of the greatest ever, but I'm glad you included guys like Vader, Funk in the top 5, and ARN. 

Fuck people who think Angle is one of the greatest ever, those people are a swine to rational thinking individuals on here.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

To be fair to him the Henry and Swagger matches were good but I do remember him being pretty shit in the Jeff matches no long after and he's certainly well on his way to being Fatt Hardy.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I like it. Flair needs to be number one and Benoit needs to get on this list STAT though. I have more Flair matches @ five stars than the entire WWF/WWE company I'm pretty sure :lol.
> 
> Mysterio would probably make it to my top 10 as well, dude is just straight up one of the greatest ever, but I'm glad you included guys like Vader, Funk in the top 5, and ARN.
> 
> Fuck people who think Angle is one of the greatest ever, those people are a swine to rational thinking individuals on here.


I don't think I'll ever be able to put anyone above Hansen. He is pretty much my definition of pro-wrestling. So, yeah, Flair is never getting above #2 & I had him at #3 initially, behind Funk but I changed it.

Benoit isn't going on my list. I just...can't watch him anymore, ya know?

I appreciate you not holding the Owen thing against me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Coffey said:


> It brings out my inner geek. I have no problem doing it. It gives me something to do that entertains me while I have free time. It's no different in my eyes than watching a TV show, DVD or killing time on the internet. As long as I'm not doing it over something else that I should be doing, I'm OK!
> 
> It's the little exercises that pop-up which make me realize how hard it really is. I'm trying to put twenty guys in order. I struggle with little groups of three!
> 
> ...


1 - AA
2 - Tully
3 - Windham

1 - Savage
2 - Steamboat
3 - Rude

1 - Bret
2 - DiBiase
3 - Eddie

1 - Rey
2 - Pillman
3 - Liger

The Horsemen one was trickier, given that Tully vs Windham was a hard one (though it was easy to pick #1).


Cal, in the Cal scale, how would you rank ECW '09 so far of what you've watched?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> To be fair to him the Henry and Swagger matches were good but I do remember him being pretty shit in the Jeff matches no long after and he's certainly well on his way to being Fatt Hardy.


Well can't really blame Hardy for having crappy matches with JEFF .

Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 16/06/2009

YES! YES! YES! YES! :mark: 

Was worried we wouldn't get a third match between them. But we are. Yey! 

Bourne's ribs are taped up following the attack last week. Oh man, this should be good :mark:. Maybe I'm hyping myself up too much. Hope not. :mark:

:mark: yey this is awesome. Bourne is just desperate to try and take Henry down and keep him down, constantly using big strikes to do what he can, but Henry keeps powering him around and shit. Bourne sells the ribs like a champ, and Henry does great as the unstoppable monster taking a beating and swatting the fly. Awesome counter into the WSS at the end. Henry finally gets his win over Bourne. 4th match? 

Rating: ***


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone got any good Lawler matches?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Cal, in the Cal scale, how would you rank ECW '09 so far of what you've watched?


Well that would depend on how I would use the CAL SCALE for it. Rate each show individually? The year overall? Month?


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I need to watch more Nick Bockwinkel, Jumbo Tsuruta, Buddy Rogers & El Santo.

Bockwinkel seems cool. Jumbo in the past has kind of bored me. I don't know how available El Santo stuff even is? Not sure on Buddy as I have never watched any of his stuff before, really.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well I had no issue with you saying Owen is overrated because... Well... He is .

Watching Flair-Windham from BOTB II, no big deal. Flair coming out to "easy lover" is one of the most epic things I've ever seen. Yeah, I'm going on a Flair binge for the next little while.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Swagger Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 16/06/2009

These two had a great Extreme Rules match in 08 (that I really should go watch again) that I honestly thought was the greatest match Dreamer has ever had. Doubt it would change too much on a re-watch. But anyway, because of that match, this has potential. Hope it delivers!

Back and forth in the beginning, then Dreamer builds momentum only to get powerslamed on the floor. They go to commercial... and THIS is the first thing we see when they come back:










:lmao

Swagger doesn't stay in control for too long, instead they go into a pretty nice back and forth finishing stretch for the last 5 minutes of the match. God I still fucking hate Dreamer with his "aaarrrgghhhh" scream when he holds out his arms and shit. Just comes across so fucking fake and forced.

Dreamer goes to the ropes, and it proves to be a mistake as he missed and Swagger rolls him up for the 3. He gets an ECW title match! Good match, then FINLAY shows up again and decks Dreamer. He is pissed that he got injured trying to break up a fight between Dreamer and Christian a few weeks ago. Christian shows up and now all 4 of them brawl, but Finlay is the last man standing!

Rating: **3/4


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Big Z said:


>


OMFG :lmao

This is just too fucking good! :lol Oh, Tommy...


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Matt Striker joking about Miz main eventing Wrestlemania :lmao oh Matt if only you knew.

Finlay vs Burchill :mark: have high hopes for this one.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Platt said:


> Finlay


Finlay is pretty good. Another guy that is kinda underrated. Did anyone see his SMASH match against Tajiri?






It's a shame that SMASH died. My buddy John & I watched every single one of their shows. First time I ever saw Kana was from SMASH too.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Finlay vs Tajiri :O how did I not know about this. Do you know which show it was on?


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Platt said:


> Finlay vs Tajiri :O how did I not know about this. Do you know which show it was on?


All hooked up, partna!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

It was 2/19 Platt. The final show of the company. It was the best Puro match of 2012 for my money. Amazing.

Kana vs Syuri from the same show was tremendous as well.

On my phone atm so will link Sharkboy Lawler matches later.

:lmao @ Dreamer's face.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

WOOLCOCK said:


> It was 2/19 Platt. The final show of the company. It was the best Puro match of 2012 for my money. Amazing.
> 
> :lmao @ Dreamer's face.


(Y) downloading it now.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Platt said:


> (Y) downloading it now.


I edited in the match into my reply earlier, that's what "all hooked up" meant. :talk


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Tully Blanchard
Arn Anderson
Barry Windham
Haven't seen enough of Anderson or Windham, yet. Just starting up in 1986, years prior Anderson was just a tag wrestler & Windham was in his first or second rookie year.

Randy Savage
Ricky Steamboat
Rick Rude
Again, prefer it the way it was defaulted. I adore Savage, the best wrestler to have the majority of his career in the WWE, imo. 

Eddie Guerrero
Bret Hart
Ted DiBiase
Haven't got into DiBiase work yet. So its pretty standard.

Rey Mysterio Jr
Brian Pillman
Jushin Liger
Think I've seen 1 Liger match in total, against Benoit. I've seen a couple bits of Pillman, again not very much.

Finally settled down, ready to get back into Kerry vs Flair.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

:$ so you did, in that case forget downloading it I'll watch it right now.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

People always love the Trio pairs because opinions can vary so dramatically without it resulting in nasty arguments. :lol

Kamala
Bam Bam Bigelow
One Man Gang

Jim Duggan
Butch Reed
Mike Rotunda

Ivory
Jazz
Molly Holly


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Kamala > Bam Bam?

I've never seen any Kamala matches, but to be above Bam Bam is quite an achievement. Any recs?

Edit: Or was that just a question, with you putting it in no particular order?


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Yeah, those are just names, not in order. Although Kamala does own.


----------



## Tokyo4Life (Sep 29, 2008)

*Re: What WWE DVD would you like to see them create?*

Jim Ross should have his own DVD he go into a lot of history of wrestling, also I would love a jake Roberts DVD


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal, what I meant was the WHOLE ECW '09 run as one itself, as in all the editions. On the Cal Scale, what would you rank it?

As far as the New Trios:

1 - Bam Bam
2 - Kamala
3 - OMG

1 - Reed
2 - Duggan
3 - Rotunda

1 - Jazz
2 - Molly
3 - Ivory

And I'll add one myself:

- William Regal (2)
- Finlay (3)
- The British Bulldog (1)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

A Jake Roberts DVD already exists, one of the best wrestling documentaries ever, PERIOD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1 - Bam Bam - He got a good match out of LT. That alone makes him pretty awesome.
2 - One Man Gang - Not seen much, but I enjoy a bunch of his tags with Bossman.
3 - Kamala - Seens VERY little of him, and what I have seen mostly sucked.

Fuck knows with the next one. Seen little Reed, not seen much of Hacksaw when he was really good (aka pre-WWF), and I've seen far too much IRS to give Rotunda a fair shake lol. Once he became IRS he just relied on rest holds.

Like I care about women's wrestling .

1 - William Regal - Man I love me some Regal. His early WCW days as LORD STEVEN REGAL are incredible. Matches with Steamboat in 93 are awesome. He was imo the greatest TV champion ever. Lovely brutal shit with Finlay and Benoit. A good babyface, even better heel, good at comedy schtick as both heel and face.
2 - Finlay - Similar to Regal with the great brutal matches, good babyface, better heel. WOTY in 06 for me too, in WWE at least.
3 - The British Bulldog - Eh, not that high on Davey Boy. Some good matches here and there no doubt, but I rarely thought DAVEY was the key to them being good.

I shall work out ECW on the CAL SCALE once I've finished this current ep I'm watching. I'll do it for SD 06 too to compare (obviously so far I can only compare half of ECW to the full SD).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Duggan
Reed 
Rotunda

Duggan is sensational and just edges out Reed based on Mid South work. Duggan is a great bumper and seller, expressive performer and manages to make quite the convincing sympathetic babyface despite his immense size. His match vs Buzz Sawyer from 11/11/85 on top of the Dibiase matches in their long running feud demonstrates his excellent body of work. The 12/17/85 Dog Collar match vs Buzz is fairly below the heights of their 11/11/85 encounter, but is still a damn great match. Sawyer in particular truly shines in the 12/27 match.

Reed is a guy I really like (that damn rumour about him pissing on every piece of furniture in a hotel room he's ever stayed in is sensational and I want it to be true) and he plays a great face with two majestic matches vs Flair & Murdoch from 8/10/85 & 9/22/85 respectively. Great bumper, strong offence, overlooked seller, expressive and charismatic performer. Man had undeniable talent.

Finlay & Regal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bulldog. Don't make me choose because that's like asking me to choose between the ELITE guys. Great arguments for either person and I will not be responsible for putting in the effort to rank one over the other. Regal is definitely the more all rounded package but both are capable of comedy, violence, working title matches vs singles match, working undercard, midcard and the uppercard, working PPV epics or sub 10 minute TV gems, both got better with age and were able to develop their body of work and outshine younger counterparts with consumate ease. Both guys rule, yadda yadda yadda.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Tajiri/Finlay was a good match.

Jamie Noble on ECW :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't get too excited Platt, he isn't there for long. At all.

Evan Bourne Vs Tyson Kidd - ECW 23/06/2009

Well, it's no Henry/Bourne, but I'll live with it. For now.

Right from the start, Smith and Natalya try to get involved, but the ref stops them and ejects them from ringside! Now we can get a one on one match, and it certainly has potential for fun.

Bourne still has though injured ribs, so the basic story of this match is already there; Kidd attacks the ribs. Simple and effect, and Bourne selling and playing the FIP works every time. 

This is fairly short, so Bourne gets beaten down a little, makes some comebacks, sells the ribs, then gets the win. Nothing much to it really, but Bourne looked good throughout at least.

Rating: **

Finlay Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 23/06/2009

Well it was bound to happen. Ryder on ECW was bound to face someone I like a ton, so I guess I have to watch some of his matches. Even if he is a useless twat with a horrible gimmick.

Finlay takes this boy to fucking SCHOOL. Plenty of stiff shots. Ryder gets in control after they both bump heads, and Finlay's eye gets caught.

Ryder does a nice job of working over the eye at least, one particular point where he looks like he's trying to gouge it out for real lol. Some stupid shit too from him though... like a sleeper hold... and you can see Finlay's face while he's in it, and he's looking up at Ryder with a confused look on his face thinking "the fuck are you doing? go after the EYE you tit!" :lmao.

Finlay wins with... uhhhh... a strange not quite low blow into a pin. Not sure what happened tbh. Good match, probably one of the better Ryder matches... ever.

Rating: **1/2

Jack Swagger & Mark Henry Vs Christian & Tommy Dreamer - ECW 23/06/2009

These 4 along with Finlay will be in a SCRAMBLE match on Sunday at THE BASH~! with the ECW title on the line. Looks pretty awesome on paper, and I do like the Scramble match, which we'd get another tbh.

Fun babyface shine period at the start, which ends with Dreamer doing that rolling thing off the apron to Henry and Christian hitting a crossbody to Swagger on the outside. Commercial break and we get some Swagger/Christian :mark:. Those two are just so great tog... tag to Dreamer. Bah! Lol.

So Dreamer takes a beating, and Henry is awesome any time he's in the ring. Love him coming in behind the ref's back to clobber Dreamer.

:lmao Swagger makes a tag while Christian is trying to turn Henry over for a sunset flip. Henry's reaction is awesome. KILLSWITCH. Tony Atlas puts Swagger's foot under the ropes, so Christian decks him and Dreamer launches himself at him. Henry smashes Christian back first into the ring post, Gut Wrench Powerbomb... and DREAMER STANDS ON THE APRON WAITING FOR A TAG (HIS ARM OUT AND EVERYTHING) AND JUST LETS THE 3 COUNT HAPPEN. So Henry kills him for being stupid. Then takes out Swagger. ALL HAIL KING HENRY.

This was good. Nothing more. Finish was the best thing tbh.

Rating: **3/4

Off to calculate ECW 09 so far on the CAL SCALE. Expecting a BIG number!


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Like I care about women's wrestling.


Speaking of this, I had a conversation with a friend via e-mail today, while he was _supposed_ to be working, about our likes & dislikes in professional wrestling. Over the years, as a fan, you start to notice things that you like & things that you definitely do not like. There are always a few exceptions to the rule(s), obviously, but more often than not there are just certain areas of the industry that just do not, or will not, ever appeal to you.

Women's wrestling is one for me. I can't buy into it at all. I have tried. I have watched Joshi. I have watched Shimmer. I just can't get into it. It seems too forced, too corny & in slow-motion. And to be honest, it makes me uncomfortable to see things like women in hardcore* matches, bleeding, or using chair shots & stuff like that. To be perfectly honest, I would be happy if WWE got rid of women's wrestling completely. There are certainly some very talented women in wrestling throughout the years but they're so few & far between I just find it not worth my time to specifically try to seek any of it out. As much praise as Shimmer has received, for example, I have not seen a single show of theirs that I would consider good. They have had a couple good matches but it's usually in the middle of an awful card full of ladies that can barely work at all. Sure, you can name drop some talented female wrestlers, like Kana, Awesome Kong, Bull Nakano, Aja Kong & Manami Toyota but, like I said, they're so few & far between, it's really not worth pursuing. I hate to sound sexist or chauvinistic but it's like trying to watch the WNBA to me. When people try to sell me on Trish Stratus or Lita being good workers, I just roll my eyes. Good compared to what, exactly? The other buckets of shit in the terrible-ass WWE Divas division? Woo, good for you, you're better than Terri Runnels & Stacy Keibler!

Speaking of *hardcore, there's another thing that I don't like in wrestling. I loved ECW in the mid-to-late 90's when I was a teenager. Table bumps were cool. Diving off of balconies? Not so much. The shit they do in XPW, FMW & CZW? Fuck off. I hate that shit & can't watch it. It's terrible. It does so much damage to the perception of the industry, not to mention the health of the "workers" (if you can even call most of them that) that I fail to see the point. It's just shock value for masochistic "fans." Fucking terrible. Buckets of shit like Supreme or Vic Grimes should never have a job in wrestling.

Outside of women's wrestling & hardcore/deathmatch style wrestling, the big third one that comes to mind for me is Lucha Libre. I want to like it but I just can't. The crowds always seem hot & I really like the masks & heritage associated with Lucha but the actual matches? Ugh. To me, from what I have seen, it's a bunch of guys wrestling sloppily, blowing spots left & right, wrestling under rules that don't make any sense, with a decrepit referee taking twenty seconds to go for a pinfall attempt. I have tried both CMLL & AAA. I can't get into it.

:talk


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Big Z said:


> Don't get too excited Platt, he isn't there for long. At all.


Yeah I just remember Sheamus kills him around this time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Anyone got any good Lawler matches?


Lawler vs Race 12/10/77
Lawler vs Funk NO DQ 3/23/81
Lawler vs Funk Empty Arena Match 4/6/81
Lawler vs Dutch Mantell NO DQ 3/22/82
Lawler vs Dutch Mantell Barbed Wire Match 3/29/82
Lawler vs Flair 8/14/82 (moreso the pre match and post match angle as well as the match)
Lawler vs Dundee Loser Leaves Town 6/6/83
Lawler & Savage vs Bundy & Rude 9/10/84
Lawler vs Savage Loser Leaves Town 6/3/85
Lawler vs Martel 10/12/85
Lawler vs Dundee Loser Leaves Town 12/30/85
Lawler & Mantell vs Dundee & Landel 3/10/86
Lawler vs Dundee NO DQ Loser Leaves Town 7/14/86
Lawler & Bigelow vs Austin Idol & Tommy Rich Double Jeopardy 3/16/87
Lawler & Bigelow vs Austin Idol & Tommy Rich Texas Death Match 3/23/87
Lawler vs Idol Hair vs Hair Steel Cage Match 4/27/87
Lawler vs Hennig Title vs Retirement 5/9/88
Lawler & Jarrett vs Moondogs Concession Stand Brawl USWA 1/17/92
Lawler & Jarrett vs Moondogs USWA 1/25/92

That's a good enough starting point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ECW 2009 CAL SCALE rating so far - 79.5
Smackdown 2006 CAL SCALE rating overall - 263.5

Only half way through ECW I know... but still . Then again SD had twice the time on TV, as well as ENTIRE PPV's dedicated to their talent, and an incredible roster to boot (ECW's wasn't shabby either of course). SD just had far more opportunities be better. Also, based on my current ratings for Undertaker at WM, he has 89.5 on the CAL SCALE with just 20 matches!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Coffey said:


> Outside of women's wrestling & hardcore/deathmatch style wrestling, the big third one that comes to mind for me is Lucha Libre. I want to like it but I just can't. The crowds always seem hot & I really like the masks & heritage associated with Lucha but the actual matches? Ugh. To me, from what I have seen, it's a bunch of guys wrestling sloppily, blowing spots left & right, wrestling under rules that don't make any sense, with a decrepit referee taking twenty seconds to go for a pinfall attempt. I have tried both CMLL & AAA. I can't get into it.
> 
> :talk


I love Lucha, though I accept title matches in particular can divide opinion on account of the style and traits that are apparent in any match. For me you have to separate your tastes and understanding of the American style before watching Lucha. Going into it without any expectation, learning the rules and themes that are apparent in the title matches as opposed to the hair vs hair/mask bloody brawls is a must to see the differentiation. If you go into it expecting matwork and hold trading that you'd see in Japan and America then you'll struggle to adapt. Lucha is done in a deliberate slower pace to showcase the beauty and showmanship in a hold. When its done badly it looks shit but when you put it in the hands of those who mastered the style it becomes pulsating and dynamic. Every teased and intricate counter adds to the tension and atmosphere and the lack of clean cut finishers makes every submission and pin so exhilarating and believeable as a near fall.

That's title matches though. If you can't get into them (understandable) then just stick to the brawls. The Hair vs Hair, Mask vs Mask & Hair vs Mask Apuestas matches. They're worked entirely like territory bouts that you associate from Lawler and the Mid South guys. Stiff punches which don't look worked, expressive and theatrical selling, big bumps which look hideous and violent as opposed to choreographed, the deliberate pacing to create unbearable tension in the final caida. Lucha brawls are as good as any in any promotion and definitely the best element of Lucha to me. Check out this match if you ever get free time:






Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo, Hair vs Hair 2/28/86. That is fucking with any bloody brawl I've seen in Memphis, Mid South, NWA, CMLL, AAA, Japan or anywhere. So violent, so raw and passionate, so meticulously paced, two sensational brawlers with enough charisma to control the crowd vividly. Pure Lucha.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Finished up Flair/Kerry in Hawaii. Btw, whats the real date of the match? Just for the record.  Youtube one is apparently incorrect.

I'd give it ****1/4. I had difficulty getting into von Erich's offence. When he was in control, my interest was filtering around. Back onto Flair, eyes glued to the screen. He added much needed charisma into the match. His offence was superb, made von Erich look like gold. Aside from that, the action & pacing was very compelling.. Not much more to add to it. Fantastic match up, if they matched up later on with von Erich having more experience, similar structure to this match, I'd adore it. But something was just missing to take it all the way.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Another great match between Swagger and Finlay on the 2/3 ECW.

God I forgot just how the commentary for Christians return was. It makes Michael Cole look like JR.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Finished up Flair/Kerry in Hawaii. Btw, whats the real date of the match? Just for the record.  Youtube one is apparently incorrect.
> 
> I'd give it ****1/4. I had difficulty getting into von Erich's offence. When he was in control, my interest was filtering around. Back onto Flair, eyes glued to the screen. He added much needed charisma into the match. His offence was superb, made von Erich look like gold. Aside from that, the action & pacing was very compelling.. Not much more to add to it. Fantastic match up, if they matched up later on with von Erich having more experience, similar structure to this match, I'd adore it. But something was just missing to take it all the way.


Its 10/12/85. Supposedly NWA Title Records do confirm Flair defended vs Kerry in Hawaii and anyone I've seen talk about that match has that listed as the date. If its incorrect then its something nobody has been able to correctly identify, but anyone I've seen review or discuss the match has 10/12/85 as the accredited date. Nice thoughts btw. I think a fair bit higher of it, but good to see you weren't disappointed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> Another great match between Swagger and Finlay on the 2/3 ECW.
> 
> God I forgot just how the commentary for Christians return was. It makes Michael Cole look like JR.


 You didn't feel the EXCITEMENT and ELECTRICITY during Christian's epic "its... christian" return? 

I'm a big fan of that Swagger/Finlay match, top 5 for ECW so far for me. Their NWO match is trash though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Kane vs Vader - NWO 1998*






Always liked this match, its not the mask vs mask one btw, great moonsault by Vader and powerbomb on Kane, of course Kane no-sold both as it was part of his character development (bit like Taker used to), some usual stiff shots by Vader too.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Big Z said:


> You didn't feel the EXCITEMENT and ELECTRICITY during Christian's epic "its... christian" return?
> 
> I'm a big fan of that Swagger/Finlay match, top 5 for ECW so far for me. Their NWO match is trash though.


It certainly was "Instantly Classic" fpalm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another favorite of mine i thought id upload:

*Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 2000)

Last Man Standing

Tagged Classic version - Unedited/Unblurred*

https://hotfile.com/dl/197232092/571c746/Triple-H_vs_Chris_Jericho_-_Fully_Loaded2000.avi.html


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just out of curiosity, am I the only that actually likes the '95 Rumble match? Obviously the roster was terrible at the time but I think it's a good thing the match was so short and I loved how it always came back down to Michaels & Bulldog after they'd eliminate countless jobbers. Entertaining stuff in my eyes. Gave it *** on the last watch. Famous ending too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You ain't alone on that kind of feeling. I'm probably the only one in the face of the Earth that likes the 2012 Rumble, which I gave ***.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2012 and 2013 rumbles were shit


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The best thing about the 2013 Rumble was Jericho's return. Apart from that it was pretty poor. I can barely remember a decent thing happening during the whole match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2013 was good, 2012 was complete shit apart from the final two. It felt like The Jobber's Rumble. When Michael Cole is in it, you know things are bad.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

honestly i'd put the whole Rumble 2013 event alongside some of the worst PPV's i've seen in recent memory


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

2013 was pretty bleh but it was by far better than the 2012 Royal Rumble though. At least the 2013 Royal Rumble had a few big names in there with a couple of cool surprises like the Godfather and Chris Jericho. The 2012 Royal Rumble was complete shit with very little big names in there, three commentators competing in the match, and the crowd not being into it that much until the likes of Randy Orton, Sheamus, and Chris Jericho came in.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I ask about 1995, people go on about 2012 & '13.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I ask about 1995, people go on about 2012 & '13.


That's how shit the 95 rumble was . Rest of the even is awesome though. Aside from IRS/Undertaker.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big Z said:


> That's how shit the 95 rumble was . Rest of the even is awesome though. Aside from IRS/Undertaker.


:agree:

Absolutely adore Bret/Diesel and that tag match is definitely underrated. I love having Vol. 2 of the Rumble anthology. So worth it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gettin' dat Top 200 matches in DUBYA-DUBYA-E worked, hopeful Part 1 of the list is posted today :mark:


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Tully Blanchard vs Dusty Rhodes National Heavyweight Championship match.

March 4th, 1986

To start it up, as far as I know, Tully aligned himself with J.J Dillon, dumping Baby Doll after losing her in the past few weeks/months to Dusty. She came back to Tully after the 30 days were over, but he had no interest. I might have got that slightly wrong, but it covers it.

The match itself, Dusty has problems with his right leg, it being casted up. There was the potential danger it would be used as a weapon. But Dusty had no intention of that. However, with Tully singling it, he got hit with a recoil. Legwork was the prominent factor of the matchup, for/against both men. The pacing they kept at, was phenomenal, the crowd soaked, ate and bathed in every single bit of Dusty's offence. 15-20 minutes of pure enjoyable, since it was clipped by commercials. Great intensity, slotted into a perfect pace, extremely entertaining. The finish was fantastic, despite it being 'Dusty'. Great way to progress the feud with the Horsemen, and the NWA babyfaces. ****1/4


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

'95 Rumble (Y)

That's all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Coffey said:


> It's the little exercises that pop-up which make me realize how hard it really is. I'm trying to put twenty guys in order. I struggle with little groups of three!
> 
> Put these in order of best to worst:
> 
> ...


1. Windham
2. Arn
3. Tully

1. Steamboat
2. Savage
3. Rude

1. Eddy
2. Hart
3. DiBiase

1. Rey
2. Liger
3. Pillman

None of that was hard, but Savage v Steamboat and Arn v Windham are pretty close. Maybe I need to watch more Tully (I definitely do but w/e), but I wouldn't put him near those two. That isn't a knock on Tully so much as it is me saying Anderson and Windham are legit all time greats. Steamboat and Savage are close, but I'll take Steamboat, if for no other reason than the Flair matches. Rude doesn't touch either of them, as much as I like him. He had a world-class 1992 (as in, literally as good as anyone that year - though I wouldn't put his 92 above Steamboat's myself), but what else? good to great matches here and there, but small chunks of his career feel disappointing. Like, following his all-star 1992 he had a pretty worthless 1993. His pre-92 is good-very good but definitely not enough to put him 'up there'. I don't think Hart nor DiBiase touch Eddy. Not even close. Both guys are pretty great though and I'll take Hart over DiBiase. He has more stand-outs and other than the absolutely top of the line DiBiase, I don't find Ted as memorable. Rey smokes Liger at this point. Liger would win this in a heartbeat ten years ago, but Rey's had the top WWE career of all time and his consistency is unmatched. When it's all said and done Rey is best wrestler listed here. Pillman's tremendous but Rey and Liger are stiff competition.



Coffey said:


> People always love the Trio pairs because opinions can vary so dramatically without it resulting in nasty arguments. :lol
> 
> Kamala
> Bam Bam Bigelow
> ...


1. Bigelow
2. Gang
3. Kamala

1. Reed
2. Duggan
387. Rotunda (dude sucked)

That was REALLLLLLLY easy. I love me some OMG and he's underrated as hell but he's no Bam Bam. I'm a mark for Kamala's gimmick but he really isn't good. Duggan at his peak is great and shit but he doesn't touch Butch Reed. don't care about the divas, mainly because I haven't bothered watching a ton of their stuff bc what I have watched wasn't interesting.



ATF said:


> And I'll add one myself:
> 
> - William Regal (2)
> - Finlay (3)
> - The British Bulldog (1)



1. Finlay
2. Regal
19186567. Bulldogs

Were the Bulldogs even good? They were kind of fun as a tag team sometimes and I like Davey Boy, but shit, I wouldn't have them separately in my top, like, 500 all time. The Dynamite Kid is possibly the most overrated wrestler ever. Finlay and Regal are like top 30. I'm giving the edge to Finlay only because he's a better seller than Regal. I think. And I prefer his top stuff to Regal's. I think.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

WWE Top 25 Rivalries in History DVD - Listing Reveal #1: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-top-25-rivalries-dvd-reveal-1/36329/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

(Y) to everything included thus far. I'd like to see Triple H/Orton (for the LMS match) & possibly a Rey/Eddie match we've never had on DVD before.

EDIT: HHH/HBK from Rumble '04 would be a nice addition, too. OOOH, and for Cena/Punk they should do their Summerslam match or the RAW after it. I'm just fantasy thinking now.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Urgh please not HBK/HHH LMS from rumble 04, it was pretty mediocre.

Just watched Edge/Ziggler from the 2011 Rumble:

Pretty fun match, the rule of no Spear was stupid especially when Edge retained after hitting a fucking Spear?! Eh I like Ziggler but this whole feud didn't help him one bit, especially his week long (i think?) title reign, anyways ***1/4*


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Urgh please not HBK/HHH LMS from rumble 04, it was pretty mediocre.
> 
> Just watched Edge/Ziggler from the 2011 Rumble:
> 
> Pretty fun match, the rule of no Spear was stupid especially when Edge retained after hitting a fucking Spear?! Eh I like Ziggler but this whole feud didn't help him one bit, *especially his week long (i think?) title reign, anyways **1/4*


He held the title like 20 minutes before dropping it back to Edge:






Anyway I enjoyed Edge/Ziggler from RR 2011, wouldn't go as low as that rating, but I do need to give the match a re-watch.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That Ziggler title 'reign' was a joke. What was the point of it? It only made Ziggler and the title look weak. Pretty pathetic.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That Ziggler title 'reign' was a joke. What was the point of it? It only made Ziggler and the title look weak. Pretty pathetic.


 It's Ziggler. WWE have always treated him as a joke. unk2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

It was 20 minutes?!

Fuck Ziggles hasn't had great luck in the 'E ever  even after winning the MITB


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Poor Ziggles. Let's hope he doesn't cash in and get beaten.

unk3


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

If he doesn't cash in at Mania i have a feeling he'll cash in at MITB because it's his last night and lose :

Poor Ziggles


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That Ziggler title 'reign' was a joke. What was the point of it? It only made Ziggler and the title look weak. Pretty pathetic.


To give Edge another pointless reign as World Champion. Wasn't needed at all. Ziggler's said in interviews that he wasn't a fan of it, and many Ziggler fans like myself try to pretend that World Title reign never happened because of how bad it was. He didn't get a chance to prove him as World Champion at all, and I hope he will with his impending World Title run, but knowing WWE and their treatment of him, I wouldn't be surprised if he holds the title a week before losing it. Like Christian. That would be awful. He needs to hold it at least a few months imo, because if the likes of Swagger and Bryan can, Dolph should easily.



Ever Wolf said:


> It was 20 minutes?!
> 
> Fuck Ziggles hasn't had great luck in the 'E ever  even after winning the MITB


Something like that. He lost in on the same show he was awarded it, and I think he was awarded it in the opening segment and they had the match straight away.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I really hope they do run with Ziggler as champion. I think him holding the strap with Big E and AJ still a part of his entourage would be great. Think JBL's cabinet back in '04. That kind of run would be good.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> If he doesn't cash in at Mania i have a feeling he'll cash in at MITB because it's his last night and lose :
> 
> Poor Ziggles


 I won't be surprised. How will they write Swagger off TV though? What kind of suspension/injury (probably one of these two) angle will they book?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> I won't be surprised. How will they write Swagger off TV though? What kind of suspension/injury (probably one of these two) angle will they book?


Perhaps Del Rio 'breaks' his arm in the cross-armbreaker? Though that's more of a heelish trait.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Swaggers just going to get thrown onto a van on its way to Mexico with Zeb running after it by Del Rio and Ricardo.

End. Of. Feud.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Perhaps Del Rio 'breaks' his arm in the cross-armbreaker? Though that's more of a heelish trait.


 I don't know why but I have a feeling that Swagger attacks Del Rio viciously after losing the match and Booker T ends up suspending Swagger the following SD! Yes, I know that post match attacks have never resulted in suspensions (I think?) but knowing WWE, it may happen.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I really hope they do run with Ziggler as champion. I think him holding the strap with Big E and AJ still a part of his entourage would be great. Think JBL's cabinet back in '04. That kind of run would be good.


:shocked: at the thought of Ziggler holding the title 280 days like JBL did. He won't even hold it half that length, and maybe not even a quarter of it. 

I just hope when Ziggler's champ that Big E will actually do something useful like help him win matches because he's doing fuck all now.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> :shocked: at the thought of Ziggler holding the title 280 days like JBL did. He won't even hold it half of length, and maybe not even a quarter of it.
> 
> *I just hope when Ziggler's champ that Big E will actually do something useful like help him win matches because he's doing fuck all now.*


This is what I was hoping and thinking of when referring to JBL's cabinet run. JBL always snuck out of matches with the title, yet he still looked pretty credible. That kind of role could work for Ziggler, with Big E and AJ getting involved and him stealing the victories.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Would be more awesome if Ziggler never saw Big E or AJ helping him and he thinks he really IS the greatest and shit.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Would be better if Ziggler didn't have AJ or Big E to begin with so he could finally go it alone and prove himself as World Champion, but no that can't happen, WWE don't have enough faith in him so he's always got to be stuck with someone, whether it's Chavo Guerrero, The Spirit Squad, Vickie Guerrero, or Big E and AJ Lee.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Would be better if Ziggler didn't have AJ or Big E to begin with so he could finally go it alone and prove himself as World Champion, but no that can't happen, WWE don't have enough faith in him so he's always got to be stuck with someone, whether it's Chavo Guerrero, The Spirit Squad, Vickie Guerrero, or Big E and AJ Lee.


 The only person I'd like to see with Ziggler is Ric Flair.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> The only person I'd like to see with Ziggler is Ric Flair.


"No, fuck that. Let's put Flair with Miz instead! Despite the fact that Ziggler and Flair would clearly fit better and Miz is god-awful." (Y)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> "No, fuck that. Let's put Flair with Miz instead! Despite the fact that Ziggler and Flair would clearly fit better and Miz is god-awful." (Y)


 "That's a great idea!" :vince


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Flair/Ziggler could of set up the perfect face turn for Ziggler. And Ziggler for months looked like someone who you would think they would turn face. He was getting face pops at nearly every PPV last year, was outpopping Sheamus in their match at No Way Out, Sheamus being one of the most popular babyfaces in the WWE today. Ziggler was playing the perfect underdog you just wanted to root for in his matches, despite being a heel. And there was dirtsheets rumors coming up a lot about a Ziggler face turn, but then they went with The Miz all of the sudden and WWE stuck AJ and Big E with Ziggler. In interviews Ziggler says he always wants to play the Heel, his Twitter is HEELZiggler for christ sake, and maybe WWE put forth the idea and Ziggler didn't want to do it? Who knows. All I know is if Ziggler was face now he would be getting better booked than he is currently, and he would be a lot more over than he is now, and his turn would come across as more natural and genuine than someone like The Miz because Ziggler plays the underdog role so well. And I think the crowd would really get behind his matches with his bumping and the super kick. If Ziggler turned face, he would probably be winning every match with the super kick because that's such a good face maneuver. HBK, one of best babyfaces of all time being prove of that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Chris Benoit vs Kevin Sullivan (Falls Count Anywhere) - The Great American Bash 1996*
A week and 11 years before Benoit's death (which has Sullivan tied to it in some ways), here he is fighting his arch rival, Kevin Sullivan. I am a bit disappointed that it was so short, though. They spend most of the match fighting in the bathroom and despite Benoit's best efforts, Sullivan does his very best to no-sell everything. They eventually make their way to ringside and drop each other crotch first on the guardrail a few times. Then Benoit gets a table, puts it on the top turnbuckle which leads to the ultimate spot. A superplex on the table and that's the end of it! Yes, a SUPERPLEX! That was pretty underwhelming to me. An enjoyable brawl but not quite the war I expected. ★★★¼

Also adding to the enjoyment is the awesome commentary. :lmao

"There's a lady in the men's bathroom!"
"The taskmasker is in his element in the bathroom, right here in the john if you will"
"HEAD FIRST IN THE COMMODE!"
"Go across the room to the women's bathroom, lets see what that would look like"


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So I'm to the point where I'm so overwhelmed by my library of wrestling dvds and vhs tapes, I have no idea what the fuck to watch.  Sooooooo:

Someone tell me what to watch tonight. Anything. First and/or best response wins. Go!


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

You should watch Canadian Stampede :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WINNER!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

If you change your mind, you can always watch Summerslam 2002 

http://wrestlingbc.multiply.com/video/item/1591


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

There wasn't much competition in all honesty :lmao (well, before *Oli-94* came in :side

Having said that you could do a lot worse than IYH 16. It might be short but it's rather fucking sweet.

Any Taka singles match is automatically great imo, but his chemistry with Sasuke was exceptional. The trips/Mankind brawl was fun (although the cage match that would take place the next month was far superior). There's an excellent big man match in Taker/Vader and a classic main event to top it all off. Replace the tag match with something substantial (impossible during the time of weak WWF tag teams) and you have a perfect mini/b ppv.

There have been some great July WWF/E ppvs down the years. CS IYH16, Fully Loaded 2000, MITB 2011. I'm sure others will add more.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'll probably give it a watch tomorrow. I just realised Canadian Stampede avaliable in the link I just posted :lol

Seen the cage match between HHH and Mankind. Apart from the botched ending, it was a fun match. I didn't like Summerslam 1997 that much though. Just three decent matches in the card. Steve Austin - Hart will always be remembered for the ending, sadly.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

The card was ruined by stupid Russo stips that killed the seriousness of the feuds, as well as some underwhelming matches. The cage opener is very good and the main event is satisfactory. In between there's a fair amount of shit. There's no doubt that a non-broken necked Austin would have dragged the quality of that ppv up by a considerable amount, he was outstanding in the ring during 97.

The biggest shame is that we never got a proper pay off to the Austin/Hart Foundation rivalry. Bret left after Montreal having not done a clean job to Austin (that would have been a perfect end to their personal feud) and Owen got squashed by the rattlesnake in a shitty match at Survivor's 97. Obviously Austin couldn't work a proper match at the time because of his neck and once he had recovered he had already moved on to greater things.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

BLACKANDRE said:


> The card was ruined by stupid Russo stips that killed the seriousness of the feuds, as well as some underwhelming matches. The cage opener is very good and the main event is satisfactory. In between there's a fair amount of shit. There's no doubt that a non-broken necked Austin would have dragged the quality of that ppv up by a considerable amount, he was outstanding in the ring during 97.
> 
> The biggest shame is that we never got a proper pay off to the Austin/Hart Foundation rivalry. Bret left after Montreal having not done a clean job to Austin (that would have been a perfect end to their personal feud) and Owen got squashed by the rattlesnake in a shitty match at Survivor's 97. Obviously Austin couldn't work a proper match at the time because of his neck and once he had recovered he had already moved on to greater things.


 I still need to watch these shows. I have reached Ground Zero 1997 which has Goldust vs Pillman, Taker - HBK, Bret Hart vs Patriot and a couple of other matches. Taker - HBK feud was awesome IIRC, liked Paul Bearer's (RIP) promos hinting at Kane's debut and HBK was totally different back then, loved him acting like a prick and arrogant in his promos ("Why don't you ask your sister and your mama how gay shawn is" :lmao ). Bret Hart and the Patriot is just a Canada vs America rivalry so wasn't really that into it. It's weird that the type of decisions they made in 1997 in regards to countries and race. They had HBK desecrating the Canadian flag a number of times, Austin interrupting the Canadian national anthem and who could forget Nation of Domination?:cool2

I'll probably watch all Attitude Era years (1997-2001) in the summer. School work (exams and coursework) are preventing me from watching old episodes at the moment. 1997 is probably the weakest year in AE in terms of entertainment (from what I have read on here) and 1999 is where the action really takes place. 2000 - 2001 are the years where AE delivers the best wrestling. Not suprising considering Y2J, Kurt Angle, Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and etc. were all included. I would mention Dean Malenko but he wasn't really huge in the WWE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I'm probably going to get extremely blazed within the hour and need some gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood shit to watch, perhaps a show I could stream in great quality. Y'all wanna provide me with some links, would really appreciate it .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Coffey said:


> It brings out my inner geek. I have no problem doing it. It gives me something to do that entertains me while I have free time. It's no different in my eyes than watching a TV show, DVD or killing time on the internet. As long as I'm not doing it over something else that I should be doing, I'm OK!
> 
> It's the little exercises that pop-up which make me realize how hard it really is. I'm trying to put twenty guys in order. I struggle with little groups of three!
> 
> ...


Windham
Arn
Tully

EDDIE x1000
Bret
Dibiase (maybe with more Mid-South viewed he could trump Bret)

Steamboat
Savage
Rude

Mysterio
Liger
Pillman

Only real easy choice was Eddie's grouping. Rest were all split by minor margins. Certainly the Liger/Mysterio one. Personally I could have slated Liger at number one. But it is Mysterio's insane consistency that lends me to put him on top of the list. Pillman is grand himself. Only, his cut short career leaves him as the expected #3 of the bunch. _(guy had two of the GOOD matches from WWE this year and he's only worked three matches total; unreal)_

Steamboat/Savage/Rude pairing was sort of hard. Very even in my eyes. Rude's natural work, when paired with Steamboat how ironic, huh(?), is grand. Then there is Steamboat's natural work - which lend itself to earning his spot as number one. Unmatched babyface work. Savage is nuts. Which I mean as a literal positive. I took into account his WCW persona too. THE MAD MAN of pro wrestling stuff, wild man vs DDP, etc. Was hard, but I know this list will stick. Then again Rude in Japan. Son of a bitch.

Bret is quality. Love more matches than I do dislike, yet some of his big matches have flopped for me. (vs Undertaker & Shawn for example) so he can't be number one. Not when Eddie Guerrero is his competition. Eddie speaks for himself. Don't even have to begin to go into detail as to what makes him so special. Dibiase is underrated outside of his Million Dollar Man gimmick, imo. I think lots love him via that and with good reason. Yet he's almost never recieved well by the majority as "a great wrestler or worker". Only one hell of a heel gimmick. When in reality (as if any tried to deny it; more or less forgotten) he is pretty damn great. I've gotten through some, a portion of his Mid-South work. Digging it. Always going to slam through some more. With my love for southern style, I can see his work down there exceeding past Bret's.

Windham vs Arn vs Tully. Wow. Talking about Southern Style and boom. Here comes all three of these. Tully almost by default was set as third. That should tell you how astronomical Windham & Arn's talent pool is. What edged me out here was simply Windham's natural talent (once again it comes into play) He had "it". Been a fan as far back as I can remember. So personally & professionally I'm going to put him over. How could you not put over Arn Anderson though? He really is about 1a in this situation. The bumping, the timing, the antics, the PROMOS, & the talent to make you believe so much while in the ring. Definition of a true legend. Arguably my favorite tag team worker. Probably only behind Bobby Eaton - which I could be indecisive and claim is another CLOSE call, if not a tie.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So I'm to the point where I'm so overwhelmed by my library of wrestling dvds and vhs tapes, I have no idea what the fuck to watch.  Sooooooo:
> 
> Someone tell me what to watch tonight. Anything. First and/or best response wins. Go!





KingOfKings said:


> So I'm probably going to get extremely blazed within the hour and need some gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood shit to watch, perhaps a show I could stream in great quality. Y'all wanna provide me with some links, would really appreciate it .


:



BLACKANDRE said:


> *Any Taka singles match is automatically great imo*, but his chemistry with Sasuke was exceptional.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AWW SHITTTT what matches should I watch from TAKAAAA.

:jpl


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

https://www.google.com/search?q=tak...urce=og&sa=N&tab=wv&ei=PxM4UfayFO6ciAeIxICgDQ


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE FIRST ONE IS THE GAME HOLY FUCK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

EDIT: 5,000TH POST!!! 

*WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede

*Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Mankind - *** 3/4

Taka Michinoku vs. The Great Sasuke - *** 1/4

*WWF Championship
*The Undertaker (c) vs. Vader - *** 1/2

*10-Man Tag Team Match
*The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart, Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Brian Pillman, & Jim Neidhart) vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, Goldust, Ken Shamrock, & The Legion of Doom - ****


- Great, great opener. Loved Mankind coming out like a house of fire trying to avenge his KOTR loss & tossin Hunter around like a rag doll. Numbers game caught up to Mick and the Chyna interference was pretty well done to say the least. Great legwork from Hunter & solid selling from Foley. Loved both men's bumping and I was fine with the countout finish because it made sense to setup the cage match and get Chyna out of the equation. Fuckin awesome that the brawl spilled into the next match. Personal favorite match of the night.

- Well Taka/Sasuke didn't have much of a story to get invested in, but I'll be damned if it wasn't an exciting collection of moves & spots. Sasuke hit some BRUTAL kicks and they flew around the ring like nothing a WWF crowd had seen before. HUNTER & MICK ARE STILL BRAWLING!? Love it.

- Yeah, Taker vs. Vader was pretty bossy. Paul Bearer yelling MURDERER! at Taker whenever he was on camera was hilarious. Vader's control segment was pretty good but HOLY FUCK, the crowd was hot as shit for Taker's comeback. Vader sold all the strikes really well and the last few minutes were awesome. Did a great job of protecting Vader in the loss. Incredibly surprised when he kicked out of the chokeslam from the 2nd rope.

- Main event is a ton of fun. It's all about the hometown boys but Austin steals the show with an amazing heel performance. Attacking the Hart family in the front row then being arrested is some pretty awesome shit. Just a bunch of great action with a red hot crowd for 20+ minutes, only problem was the shitty finish. Kinda funny the very next month that Austin/Owen would end in the same fashion.​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody loves the Foley-HELMSLEY match as much as I do :mark:

Swear to god, the 1997 series rivals Christian-Orton in terms of a long angle that produced consistently great matches.. By my estimation ;

KOTR : ****** (Hunter's first **** match)
IYH CS : ******
Summerslam : ******
RAW : ******
ONO : ******

YEP. THEY'RE ALL FOUR STARS. WATCH THE IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE IT IS FUCKING WORTH IT. Nobody comes close to Foley as DA GAME'S best opponent.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'd say the ten man tag from Canadian Stampede is an easy ***** personally.

Mankind-HHH ***3/4
Taka-Sasuke ****
Undertaker-Vader ***3/4
Ten Man Tag Match *****

9/10 PPV


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Falls Count Anywhere - Disc 1*

*Alley Fight*
Pat Patterson vs. Sgt. Slaughter - ****
_MSG 5/4/1981_

*Atlanta Street Fight*
The Midnight Express vs. Jimmy Valiant & Ms. Atlanta Lively - **
_Starrcade '85_

*WCW Tag Team Titles - Street Fight*
Doom (c) vs. Arn Anderson & Barry Windham - *** 1/2
_Starrcade '90_

*Falls Count Anywhere*
Sting vs. Cactus Jack - ****
_Beach Blast '92_

*Falls Count Anywhere*
Randy Savage vs. Crush - ** 3/4
_Wrestlemania X_

*Chicago Street Fight*
The Road Warriors vs. Sting & Booker T - DUD
_Uncensored '96_

*Chicago Street Fight*
Ahmed Johnson & The Legion of Doom vs. Faarooq, Savio Vega, & Crush - * 1/2
_Wrestlemania 13_

*Street Fight*
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - N/A
_RAW 4/21/1997_​

- Well an Alley Fight is the perfect name for the *Slaughter/Patterson* match, because that's exactly what it was; a FIGHT. For a match that took place over 30 years ago, in the United States, AND in the WWF, this was incredibly violent and probably the first thing of its kind. Does anyone know if Slaughter actually did blade or if that cut was legit from the ring post? Either way the man is insane and should've probably died in the ring. It's a tough one to rate because it didn't really feel like a match at all, but the realism and absolutely insane amount of blood that Slaughter makes it incredibly memorable.

- I'll breeze through the next few matches in one paragraph. Odd choice with Starrcade '85 match, it was fun but nothing of any substance or value. Doom/Horseman was pretty awesome for a sub-10 minute match, but the finish pretty much sucked. Had some great action and nearfalls though. Sting/Cactus is a classic, awesome all over the place brawl. Savage/Crush is a lot of fun with an odd 60 second count stipulation to get back in the ring. Why do I care enough to want the Mania 13 match on dvd?

- You know how people are always saying that WWE put shitty matches on WCW dvds to portray how bad the product was? Well the *Uncensored '96 *match is a prime example of that. Giant pile of dog shit. Nothing but an extremely long, dull, heatless brawl loaded with some of the weakest looking chair shots you'll ever see. It's bad enough that the match is totally out of context so we have NO IDEA why Sting is teaming with Booker T of all people, but the fact that it goes a legit 25+ minutes makes it pure torture to sit through. A serious candidate for the worst match I've ever seen. Do I even wanna watch more at this point???

- Hart/Austin isn't really a match at all, it's more of an angle and feud advancement. Why is it even on here then? Good question. I'll be asking myself that a lot it looks like...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I pondered buying that set myself. Never knew what it included so I always made the pass. Knowing the Doom vs Arn/Windham tag is on DVD makes me really want to fork over some greenbacks to own it. Always marked for Savage vs Crush from WM X so there is appeal in that one too.

lol @ the Uncensored match making it. I loved how they fused two teams Road Warriors were feuding with to have a Street Fight vs. Luger as in the main event and Stevie Ray sucks so I guess they just decided not to use him. _(unless he was "taken out" by LOD and I'm forgetting. Meh.)_ It's CRAP. Blows my mind Regal vs Finlay in one of the best matches ever is on one of the most infamously bad WCW PPVs.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Wow, Mike Awesome vs. Tanaka at ECW ONS 2005 has probably the greatest table spots i have ever seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Awesome vs Spike Dudley from Guilty as Charged 2000 rules for table spots too. The love I have for that match will never cease.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Awesome vs Spike Dudley from Guilty as Charged 2000 rules for table spots too. The love I have for that match will never cease.


Childhood favorite right there. Oh how I enjoyed watching Spike get DESTROYED.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You ever watched it drunk? Legit gets even BETTER. :mark:

In fact, ECW in general while inebriated is recipe for making things much more swell.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That Uncensored tag even in JIP form sucked the life out of me. Wrote this in 2011:

Sting/Booker T v Road Warrior Hawk/Road Warrior Animal (Uncensored 24/3/96)
-- "Some matches suck, and some are just uninteresting." Meet the suck. This was joined in progress, and I tend to check the time of the chapter of the DVD when it first starts, and this had 15 minutes left, and I thought "no way it lasts 15 more minutes." It. Fucking. Did. And it was painful. It's a Chicago Street Fight, and it's a lot of bad brawling and more confusing heel/face stuff. Sting's a clear face obviously, but Booker walks out on him at one point and gets together with his brother and some others (fuck if I remember who) in the back and tie up Animal. Then he come back to help Sting, then some more bullshit happens. I checked the length of entire match on Wikipedia, and it apparently ends up at over 29 minutes. To hell with enduring that shit. This was not good. No siree.


ECW while drunk sounds absolutely magical. I put together discs a while back that have like 50 Tajiri matches from 2000 on them, and I went nuts for them while sober. I'm the happiest drunk in the world (like, genuinely) so imagine that shit. I also dance around like la Parka. FUCKKKKK, la Parka marathon while drunk. OMG I JUST FOUND THE CURE TO CANCER


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Getting hammered and popping in ECW Bloodsport set might have been the best thing I've ever done. Probably second to getting high and watching the lucha atomicos match from Souled Out '98. El Dandy splatting on the concrete floor had me laughing legit for 20 minutes.

Oh, and you know what match REALLY sucks from WCW? Konnan vs Hugh Morrus @ Great American Bash '97. FUCK YOU KONNAN.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For anyone who needs it:

*Triple H vs Steve Austin (No Way Out 2001)

Triple H vs 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin 

'3 Stages Of Hell'*

Tagged Classic Version - Uneditied/Unblurred

https://hotfile.com/dl/197320978/629ed5c/Triple_H_vs_Steve_Austin_(NWO2001).avi.html

(Y)


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

NWA World Heavyweight Champion Ric Flair vs Barry Windham 14/2/1986

Going to rewatch it, more analytically. But, wow. I believe at this stage, Windham was just in 'lowly' Florida territory of the NWA. And to these type of matches, he was still a rookie. But they went for a good 40-50 minutes, and put on something beyond a terrifyingly good performance. He did his job, beyond exceptional. I'll give it ****3/4+++ on this reviewing, but a rewatch should definately help it. Enjoyed every part of the match, despite the tendancy to lose focus in very long bouts. More thoughts on it later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Standard nothing special type stuff from Austin & Trips. Their chemistry never clicked for me. See No Mercy '99 & Survivor Series '00.

Chaos & carnage was captured much better with both guys vs Foley. Or Austin vs Angle even. Never transitioned into a major brawl with the latter, yet the matches were super intense and had an aura of danger to them via kayfabe thanks to Austin's constant assaults on Angle. Bloodied him up at Summerslam & injuring the neck for the rematch at Unforgiven.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Can anyone link me with Cena/Orton "I Quit"? I hate that match, but I'm willing to give it another chance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Cena's comeback is the reason some hate the match then idk about certain things anymore.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Desecrated said:


> NWA World Heavyweight Champion Ric Flair vs Barry Windham 14/2/1986
> 
> Going to rewatch it, more analytically. But, wow. I believe at this stage, Windham was just in 'lowly' Florida territory of the NWA. And to these type of matches, he was still a rookie. But they went for a good 40-50 minutes, and put on something beyond a terrifyingly good performance. He did his job, beyond exceptional. I'll give it ****3/4+++ on this reviewing, but a rewatch should definately help it. Enjoyed every part of the match, despite the tendancy to lose focus in very long bouts. More thoughts on it later.


:mark:

I fucking LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this match. ***** all the way for me, and imo the second greatest match of all time, just ahead of their WWW '87 match lol.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Can anyone link me with Cena/Orton "I Quit"? I hate that match, but I'm willing to give it another chance.


Not the best quality, but here:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I was high as FUUUCKKK last night and ended up watching Taka's Rumble elimination on repeat like 80 times, might have been the most laughing I've ever done. Also got paranoid that he was going to win the WWF Championship from The Game .


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

[cheap shill]

Just completed this, it's a 7 disc set containing off of CM Punk's Televised/PPV title matches from his historic 434 day reign. Price is $20 shipped anywhere.

Disc 1
Day 1: Survivor Series 2011 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio
Day 8: Raw 11/28/11 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio
Day 35: TLC 2011 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs Miz
Day 43: Raw 1/2/12 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler

Disc 2
Day 70: Royal Rumble 2012 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler
Day 81: Elimination Chamber 2012
Day 133: Wrestlemania 28 CM Punk vs Chris Jericho

Disc 3
Day 134: Raw 4/2/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry
Day 141: Raw 4/9/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry
Day 148: Raw 4/16/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry
Day 161: Extreme Rules 2012 CM Punk vs Chris Jericho

Disc 4
Day 182: Over The Limit 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
Day 194: Smackdown 6/1/12 CM Punk vs Kane
Day 210: No Way Out 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane

Disc 5
Day 238: MITB 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
Day 246: Raw 7/23/12 CM Punk vs John Cena
Day 273: Summerslam 2012 CM Punk vs John Cena vs Big Show

Disc 6
Day 301: Night Of Champions 2012 CM Punk vs John Cena
Day 343: Hell In A Cell 2012 CM Punk vs Ryback
Day 364: Survivor Series 2012 CM Punk vs Ryback vs John Cena

Disc 7
Day 414: Raw 1/7/13 CM Punk vs Ryback
Day 434: Royal Rumble 2013 CM Punk vs The Rock 

[/cheap shill]


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Since the list is right in front of me I might as well thrown in some NINJA STARS

Disc 1
Day 1: Survivor Series 2011 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio *** 1/4
Day 8: Raw 11/28/11 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio (don't remember)
Day 35: TLC 2011 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs Miz *** 
Day 43: Raw 1/2/12 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler ** 1/2

Disc 2
Day 70: Royal Rumble 2012 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler ** 3/4
Day 81: Elimination Chamber 2012 ***
Day 133: Wrestlemania 28 CM Punk vs Chris Jericho **** 1/4

Disc 3
Day 134: Raw 4/2/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry *** 3/4
Day 141: Raw 4/9/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry (just remember the finish)
Day 148: Raw 4/16/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry *** 1/2
Day 161: Extreme Rules 2012 CM Punk vs Chris Jericho *** 3/4

Disc 4
Day 182: Over The Limit 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan **** 1/2
Day 194: Smackdown 6/1/12 CM Punk vs Kane (don't remember) 
Day 210: No Way Out 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane ***

Disc 5
Day 238: MITB 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ****
Day 246: Raw 7/23/12 CM Punk vs John Cena **
Day 273: Summerslam 2012 CM Punk vs John Cena vs Big Show ** 1/2

Disc 6
Day 301: Night Of Champions 2012 CM Punk vs John Cena ****
Day 343: Hell In A Cell 2012 CM Punk vs Ryback **
Day 364: Survivor Series 2012 CM Punk vs Ryback vs John Cena ** 1/4

Disc 7
Day 414: Raw 1/7/13 CM Punk vs Ryback *** 1/4
Day 434: Royal Rumble 2013 CM Punk vs The Rock ***


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I was high as FUUUCKKK last night and ended up watching Taka's Rumble elimination on repeat like 80 times, might have been the most laughing I've ever done. Also got paranoid that he was going to win the WWF Championship from The Game .


Dammit, this makes me wanna watch a show or match high RIGHT NOW. The talk of watching wrestling while high/drunk has regenerated my interest in smoking some weed soon. Sounds like a fun experience.



JoeRulz said:


> Can anyone link me with Cena/Orton "I Quit"? I hate that match, but I'm willing to give it another chance.


I watched it from this link. The only time I ever found facebook useful for something wrestling related.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1388469436552


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

May as well lay some stars down

Disc 1
Day 1: Survivor Series 2011 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio ***
Day 8: Raw 11/28/11 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio can't remember
Day 35: TLC 2011 CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs Miz ***1/2
Day 43: Raw 1/2/12 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler can't remember

Disc 2
Day 70: Royal Rumble 2012 CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler **1/2
Day 81: Elimination Chamber 2012 **
Day 133: Wrestlemania 28 CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ***3/4

Disc 3
Day 134: Raw 4/2/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry ****
Day 141: Raw 4/9/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry ****
Day 148: Raw 4/16/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry ***3/4
Day 161: Extreme Rules 2012 CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ***1/4

Disc 4
Day 182: Over The Limit 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ****3/4
Day 194: Smackdown 6/1/12 CM Punk vs Kane **3/4
Day 210: No Way Out 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane ***3/4

Disc 5
Day 238: MITB 2012 CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ***1/2
Day 246: Raw 7/23/12 CM Punk vs John Cena *1/2
Day 273: Summerslam 2012 CM Punk vs John Cena vs Big Show **

Disc 6
Day 301: Night Of Champions 2012 CM Punk vs John Cena ****1/2
Day 343: Hell In A Cell 2012 CM Punk vs Ryback *
Day 364: Survivor Series 2012 CM Punk vs Ryback vs John Cena **

Disc 7
Day 414: Raw 1/7/13 CM Punk vs Ryback *** 1/4
Day 434: Royal Rumble 2013 CM Punk vs The Rock *DUD*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just started watching WM 13...










And they manage to fuck up in the first few minutes!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Watched some more Edge matches:

Edge vs Kurt Angle - hair vs hair match - Judgement Day 2002 ****3/4*

First time I've watched this match, but I've always seen the highlights of it when Angle gets his head shaved. The commentary is entertaining throughout with the combination of JR and heel King (back when King was great) with King talking down Edge and bringing up how funny it would be if he was bald, and JR trying to focus on the calling the match like he always does. It's a good match and fun just for the ending, Edge wins with a roll up after false finishes with spears and Angle even used the spear on Edge but couldn't get the win, When the match is over Angle refuses to get his head shaved and he attacks Edge, they fight up the ramp, then fight in the back, eventually Angle gets the best of Edge and brings him back out to arena to try and shave Edge's head, when they're at the barber's chair, Edge makes a comeback and places Angle in a sleeper hold that puts out Angle :lol and Edge shaves his head, when Angle wakes up Edge shows what Angle looks like in the mirror and Angle goes ballistic, then Edge says the crowd should chant ''You're bald'' instead of ''You Suck'' when Angles music plays, and Edge ends it by saying hit the music, Angle's music plays, and the whole arena chants ''you're bald''. :lmao The whole segment after the match is just so hilarious, me and my brother were laughing lots. 

And:

Edge and Christian vs The Hardy Boyz vs The Dudley Boyz - Triangle Ladder Match - WrestleMania 16 - *****1/2*

A classic, for the first half of the match I thought I was watching the WrestleMania 17 match which was the better of the two, but this match is still great. These three teams stole the show at WrestleMania 16 and WrestleMania 17 and put on GOAT TLC matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Watched some more Edge matches:
> 
> Edge vs Kurt Angle - hair vs hair match - Judgement Day 2002 ****3/4*
> 
> ...


Awesome that someone else loves Edge/Angle JD too. My favourite match of their saga.

Watch too Edge/Christian from Raw 2010. Awesome material.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

@Nostalgia - Have you watched Edge's 2002 cage match with Angle yet? Not sure if you posted it a few pages back or whatnot. Anyway, great match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh, watching wrestling high is the best. I wanted to see how long I could go without toking and I lasted like .... Five months. Drinking on the other hand, I haven't done in like over half a year due to me kind of despising the feeling of being drunk and having some of the worst hangovers known to all of mankind. MaryJayWanna just makes everything better in terms of music, wrestling, movies, any ART form really. I know that's the ramblings of an addict I suppose, but I could get high and blow through a series of matches in no time. For some reason I'd rather watch matches with higher production value whilst high, maybe that's why I was digging the HD shit so much yesterday.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> Awesome that someone else loves Edge/Angle JD too. My favourite match of their saga.
> 
> Watch too Edge/Christian from Raw 2010. Awesome material.


Will do. I assume it's one of the DVD's?



AlienBountyHunter said:


> @Nostalgia - Have you watched Edge's 2002 cage match with Angle yet? Not sure if you posted it a few pages back or whatnot. Anyway, great match.


Not yet. May check it out later and give my thoughts. (Y)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Watch too Edge/Christian from Raw 2010. Awesome material.


Sadly, that match isn't on Edge's DVD. I'm not sure if I've seen it either. Do you have a link to it or the exact date of the match?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just checked and it's on the story of Edge DVD. So it's a good thing I've got both DVD's. (Y)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Just checked and it's on the story of Edge DVD. So it's a good thing I've got both DVD's. (Y)


Oh damn. I've only got Decade of Decadence on DVD, as I watched The Story of Edge on Netflix. Womp womp


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-lis...-know-me-the-story-of-edge-dvd-blu-ray/20876/

Match list of The Story of Edge DVD if you're curious. Reading that, I'm jealous of the Blue-Ray extras.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-lis...-know-me-the-story-of-edge-dvd-blu-ray/20876/
> 
> Match list of The Story of Edge DVD if you're curious. Reading that, I'm jealous of the Blue-Ray extras.


Thanks a lot. It's a solid list of matches but I actually own quite a few of them on other sets. I now have the date for that Edge/Christian 'pick your poison' match now though, so I'm going to go track it down.

Edit: Found it now on Dailymotion. (Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Thanks a lot. *It's a solid list of matches but I actually own quite a few of them on other sets*. I now have the date for that Edge/Christian 'pick your poison' match now though, so I'm going to go track it down.


Yeah, same here. Got that DVD for the documentary though. From that match list, I've seen 9 of those matches before, but it's will be good to watch them again, particularly matches like Edge/Christian from RAW that I don't have much memory of.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Sin Cara vs Antonio Cesaro was a good match for how short it was. Definitely check it out.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Edge vs Christian 'Pick Your Poison' - Raw 17th May 2010.*

Just watched this as I'd never seen it before. Really solid match. The opening few minutes are really great as it is counters galore, and they play off the story that they know each other so well. King on commentary keeps harping on that it's "like wrestling yourself." Edge then grounds Christian and starts working on the left arm before Christian makes a bit of a comeback. The best thing about the match though is Christian's selling of the arm injury. Not once does he forget about it and is always holding his arm. Edge keeps trying to comeback but Christian knows him so well that he's wise to every offensive move Edge has got. Nice dynamic to this match and the arm injury comes into play for the finish as well. Good stuff, though could have been slightly longer.

One a related topic, I've always been disappointed that they changed Christian's finisher name to the 'killswitch'? I loved it as the 'unprettier'- it sounded much more unpleasant.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Nice review. Will have to check out that match again. Christian's always been a great seller. And yeah, I preferred The Unprettier name. Apparently they changed the name because the Unprettier was well known from his time in TNA, that's what I heard.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Nice review. Will have to check out that match again. Christian's always been a great seller. And yeah, I preferred The Unprettier name. Apparently they changed the name because the Unprettier was well known from his time in TNA, that's what I heard.


Thanks. That's probably true about The Unprettier. Still like that move but it does take a while to set up.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Oh, watching wrestling high is the best. I wanted to see how long I could go without toking and I lasted like .... Five months. Drinking on the other hand, I haven't done in like over half a year due to me kind of despising the feeling of being drunk and having some of the worst hangovers known to all of mankind. MaryJayWanna just makes everything better in terms of music, wrestling, movies, any ART form really. I know that's the ramblings of an addict I suppose, but I could get high and blow through a series of matches in no time. For some reason I'd rather watch matches with higher production value whilst high, maybe that's why I was digging the HD shit so much yesterday.


You should try watching Raw high sometimes. It's a whole different perspective and I seem to have much more appreciation for what they do.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Jeff Hardy vs Johnny Nitro- Intercontinetal Title Match- RAW November 2006 ***1/4*

This was more about the brutality of the spots instead of the drama and that’s definitely an acceptable way to go. It’s not on the, pardon the pun, highest rung of the ladder match ladder, but for a free one on TV, there isn’t much to complain about on this one. Hardy doing his stunt show was a tried and true idea and it worked here fine.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Ronnie Garvin & Mighty Wilbur vs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard 5/6/88

Surprisingly a very good match. Anderson & Blanchard are what to expect. Their familarity with each other added a crisp and fluid pace to the match, the Wilbur was used sparingly, and well. Early on to establish an uphill task for the heels, and in the end to take the pin. Everything else went through the other 3. Garvin put on a fantastic babyface performance, got the crowd going, great offence and sold very well. A 14-16 minute bout that never dies down in pace. ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I should try and watch IMPACT! tonight whilst high. Then again, I'd need to be under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs to sit through that shit anyways .


----------



## cablegeddon (Jun 16, 2012)

Alim said:


> You should try watching Raw high sometimes. It's a whole different perspective and I seem to have much more appreciation for what they do.


wwe ppv drunk > raw high


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Being high > > > Being drunk. In every single way .


----------



## cablegeddon (Jun 16, 2012)

No. I couldn't get aggressive getting high in a million years. Wrestling is about aggression right?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RUTHLESS. AGGRESSION. :vince.


----------



## cablegeddon (Jun 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> RUTHLESS. AGGRESSION. :vince.


See? Maybe I would consider watching AAA or CMLL high but never American wrestling. American wrestling is all about aggression.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

It's really fun to get stoned and watch wrestling. I too burn through DVDs and green and it makes the product better. I used to toke for the HBK/Taker @ WM 24 build-up which made it that much better. Always order Rumble and Mania, and since it's a social situation and it's wrestling of course we're drinking a ton, but there's also some bud around too. Got super blazed for Taker/HHH at 27, made it even more epic. And it was the first time I saw HHH come out live in that awesomely goofy ass outfit he does. 

Super fun.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*Rivalries*

Randy Orton vs. Triple H
Bruiser Brody vs. Abdullah the Butcher
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
The Undertaker vs. Kane
*
Matches*

Bruiser Brody vs. Abdullah the Butcher
World Class Championship Wrestling • July, 1987

WWE Championship Match
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
SummerSlam • August 24, 2003

Six-Man Tag Team Match for the WWE Championship
Triple H, Batista & Shane McMahon vs. Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase
Backlash • April 26, 2009

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-top-25-rivalries-dvd-reveal-2/36331/


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Angle/Lesnar's Summerslam match on the set? Fuck yeah. I always wanted to own that match on a DVD set as I don't get any PPV event DVD's now.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

AlwaysSunny For AIW said:


> Angle/Lesnar's Summerslam match on the set? Fuck yeah. I always wanted to own that match on a DVD set as I don't get any PPV event DVD's now.


I was about to say exactly this. Great match and really happy to see it on the set.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Arnold Tricky said:


> *Rivalries*
> 
> Randy Orton vs. Triple H
> Bruiser Brody vs. Abdullah the Butcher
> ...


:mark: :mark: :mark:

Angle/Brock & the Backlash 6-man. Two AWESOME matches that have never surfaced on a compilation dvd.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't remember a THING about that Backlash 09 match. I do, however, remember Shane's PHANTOM PUNCHES during the buildup.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't think I've watched the Backlash 09 match since the event. Might have to check it out again. I only remember the finish.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't remember a THING about that Backlash 09 match. I do, however, remember Shane's PHANTOM PUNCHES during the buildup.




I remember them being so bad that people wanted it to be done purposely. Like, Shane threw shitty ones intentionally because he was actually a part of the Legacy. In truth he just sucked and threw the worst punches in the history of mankind. Watching poor Orton being forced to try and sell those things was sad.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't even remember that much.  Should make a rewatch that much better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't remember a THING about that Backlash 09 match. I do, however, remember Shane's PHANTOM PUNCHES during the buildup.





Spoiler: Finish to the match



Orton wins back the belt in awesome fashion (punt to the head after Trips kicks out of a surprise RKO). Great match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The match is on Dailymotion if anyone wants to watch it:

Part 1: here

Part 2: here


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WELL THANKS FOR RUINING IT FOR ME 

edit thanks


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My apologies go out!!!


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Just watched Owen vs Bret at Wm X (while baked). What can you say that hasn't been said. The way the match evolves from simple one ups-manship to methodical limb work with all types of goodness sprinkled in between. King even adds a ton with his constant putting over of Owen... Perfect finish... Perfect match... Goat opening match in History and top 5 wm match.

******* seven out of five lol I'm obviously still a bit high


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Better PPV year for WWF? 1998, 1999, or 2000? Feel like downloading some shows, shoot.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

2000 is pretty good imo. 

RR2000 has HHH/Foley.
NWO has HHH/Foley.
WM is WM.
Backlash has Rock/HHH.

Actually, just get all the 2000 PPVs because THE GAME fucking owns.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

2000 all the way. Perhaps the GOAT year. As Lady Killer said, THE GAME is the absolute man that year.

:jpl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1998, 1999 or 2000? Fuck me, 2000 by the biggest margin in existence.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Haha, 2000 it is


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 13 - Owen & Bulldog Vs Vader & Mankind... is it good? Looks like, awesome on paper, but I never hear anyone talk about it. That bad? Or a forgotten gem?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Z said:


> WM 13 - Owen & Bulldog Vs Vader & Mankind... is it good? Looks like, awesome on paper, but I never hear anyone talk about it. That bad? Or a forgotten gem?


I expected better because of the talent in the ring. The finish was pretty bad too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho (Raw 7/4/2004)*
- Raw is in Winnipeg and it starts with a game of musical chairs involving hometown hero, Chris Jericho. To the crowd's delight, he wins and general manager for the week, Eugene, gives him a shot at the Intercontinental Title. (why couldn't he have gotten a match with Benoit for the WHC instead?) Match starts with some test of strength which Jericho wins to play up to the red-hot crowd which heavily favors him. After that, Jericho controls most of the first half with Orton's only real offense being an awesome Dropkick to counter a Body Splash. Suddenly, Batista walks out to watch over his Evolution buddy and a commercial break happens. When they return, Jericho is still in control but after an Irish Whip, Batista pulls down the rope which causes Jericho to go over the top rope to the outside. Batista pushes him shoulder first into the steel post and from that point on, Orton starts to take over and constantly works on Jericho's left arm and like a true heel, utilizes the entire 5 count every time. Some great back and forth action from there on until the end when Jericho gets Orton in the Walls but Batista stands on the apron, distracting the referee and Jericho releases the hold to deal with him, Orton utilizes the distraction to his advantage by rolling Jericho up and putting his feet on the ropes for the final 3 count and retains the title. A pretty good TV match that seems lost in the vault nowadays. ★★★¼

Orton in 2004 was awesome. I'll try to put together a top 10 for him that year now:
vs Foley - Backlash
vs Benoit - SummerSlam
vs Benoit - Raw 16/8
vs Edge - Vengeance
vs Edge - 13/12
vs Triple H - Unforgiven
Evolution vs Foley/Benoit/HBK/Shelton - 12/4
Evolution vs ROCK n Sock - Wrestlemania XX
vs Flair - Taboo Tuesday
Team Orton vs Team HHH - Survivor Series


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Can anyone recommend me any horrible PPVs? I'm talking PPVs full of DUD matches and comical booking. I'm in the mood to laugh. :durant


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

1999 Rejex said:


> Can anyone recommend me any horrible PPVs? I'm talking PPVs full of DUD matches and comical booking. I'm in the mood to laugh. :durant


Unforgiven 2007
Survivor Series 2000
Most IYH PPVs
Wrestlemania II
December to Dismember
Bragging Rights 2010
Judgement Day 1998
Almost every single WCW PPV


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Unforgiven 2007
> Survivor Series 2000
> Most IYH PPVs
> Wrestlemania II
> ...


Thanks man. I'm gonna watch some of these tonight and the rest tommorrow and will also post my reviews of them afterwards. This should be fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1999 Rejex said:


> Thanks man. I'm gonna watch some of these tonight and the rest tommorrow and will also post my reviews of them afterwards. This should be fun.


Are you trying to take my spot as the top masochist in this thread?


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

1999 Rejex said:


> Can anyone recommend me any horrible PPVs? I'm talking PPVs full of DUD matches and comical booking. I'm in the mood to laugh. :durant


Oooo ooo!

Uncensored 1995
Uncensored 1999
Uncensored 2000
Halloween Havoc 1991
Halloween Havoc 1999
Halloween Havoc 2000
AWA Superclash III
Women of Wrestling
Heroes of Wrestling
Victory Road 2011
Souled Out 1997
December to Dismember 2006
Wrestlemania 9
Wrestlemania 11
Road Wild 1998
Road Wild 1999
Capitol Punishment 2011 I recall being really bad

There are others like Great American Bash 2004, Judgment Day 2007 and others I've heard being really terrible but I can't comment since I haven't seen them.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Are you trying to take my spot as the top masochist in this thread?


You know it. :avit:



KO Bossy said:


> Oooo ooo!
> 
> Uncensored 1995
> Uncensored 1999
> ...












I'm definitely gonna give these a watch. I'll start with Victory Road 2011 first. That PPV has a special place in my heart.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

1999 Rejex said:


> You know it. :avit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I really do have to highly recommend Uncensored 2000, it is the perfect Vince Russo WCW 2000 PPV. Its just terrible in that nothing makes sense, but you can't watch it with a straight face, its absolutely hilarious.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Survivor Series 2000


 I have to watch this. Would be interesting to see how a PPV with Austin, Rock, HHH, the Radicals, Edge + Christian, Dudley and Hardy Boys did so bad.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The only decent match that I recall from SvS 2000 was Rock/Rikishi, and that was entirely due to Rock's selling and nothing more. How can such a great year for wrestling have this shitstain? LOL at the Jericho/Kane feud relating to coffee and the Undertaker/Angle ending.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The only decent match that I recall from SvS 2000 was Rock/Rikishi, and that was entirely due to Rock's selling and nothing more. How can such a great year for wrestling have this shitstain? LOL at the Jericho/Kane feud relating to coffee and the Undertaker/Angle ending.


That was the PPV where Taker was rocking the leopard print style pants...for the only time ever in his career.










Gotta say, it was a pretty strange fashion choice.

Then there was K-Kwik (R-Truth in his first run) being an honorary member of DX for the night. That was strange, too.

Austin vs Hunter was on the card, as well, and it featured Trips getting crushed in a car. I remember that match being alright, a pretty decent brawl with lots of plunder.

Haven't seen it in years but I don't remember it being one of the worst ever. Nowhere near it, in fact. At least it had some good moments, which is more than I can say for others.

I've got some free time this weekend, maybe I'll do a review of it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Holy crap, I ordered every PPV in 2000 (and most from 1997-2002), but I don' remember 'Taker wearing those pants at all, even if it only was once. Those are some jazzy pants for 'Taker, to say the least.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Thinking about doing a review of Survivor Series 2000 now, figured I'd gauge some interest in my doing it here first, see if anyone would be interested in it. At the very least it'd be fun to go back and watch it again, but I'll skip the review part if nobody is gonna read it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I remember Survivor Series 2000 not being to bad. I haven't ever rated it though and it has been years since I've watched it so I could be wrong.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HIGHHHHHHHHH ASSSS FUUUUUUUUUUCK.

DVD/MATCH/SHOW/WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED DISCUSSION THREAD.

Just destroyed a box of Froot Loops, nachos are coming soon, and SUMMERSLAM 2010 is in the lap top. OH IF THEY SUCCEED.

:cena3


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Unforgiven 2007
> Survivor Series 2000
> Most IYH PPVs
> Wrestlemania II
> ...


Needs more King of the Ring 1995


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series 2000 is much more underwhelming than bad. Nothing on it was a DUD. Then again nothing on it was worth seeing either. Rock vs Rikishi WAS the best match. Not even close to a stretch. It's legit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I wish the price of blu rays at Best Buy made sense. Look at this scenario:

- The other day, went out and bought *The Best PPV Matches of 2012. *It was $24.99 (normal price for blu rays)

- Today, went out and got *Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection. *Expected the same price, but for some reason it was $27.99 on blu ray. Whatever, still bought it.

- Was looking at a few others, thought I might pick up another one or two, but shit was just weird. Both *The Best of RAW & Smackdown 2012 *& *OMG! Top 50 Incidents in WWE History* were $29.99 and quite frankly that makes no sense to me. Would've picked up the RAW/SD set if it was the usual price...

Anyways, weird rant over. Hoping to slam through discs 2 and 3 of *Falls Count Anywhere *this weekend cause I'm REALLY excited for Bret's new dvd. Looking forward to... everything.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Picked up THE DUNGEON COLLECTION and Royal Rumble 2013 today. I'm not watching the main event.

NOPE unk2.

FROM NOW ON, IT ENDS WITH CENA WINNING THE RUMBLE :cena3.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I wish the price of blu rays at Best Buy made sense. Look at this scenario:
> 
> - The other day, went out and bought *The Best PPV Matches of 2012. *It was $24.99 (normal price for blu rays)
> 
> ...


I noticed that, too. Every blu ray I bought before the Bret one was $25. Bought the Bret one on Tuesday and it was more expensive. Still bought it, but wasn't a fan of that.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

Speaking of the Dungeon Collection, does anyone have ratings for the matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Picked up THE DUNGEON COLLECTION and Royal Rumble 2013 today. I'm not watching the main event.
> 
> NOPE unk2.
> 
> FROM NOW ON, IT ENDS WITH CENA WINNING THE RUMBLE :cena3.


YOU BOUGHT THE RUMBLE?

I dig John-boy as much as the next guy, but that show was a stinker. I'm going to hold off for quite a while, personally.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Never buying the 13 Rumble show.

Best match was the tag match at ** urgh, awful.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

On the Survivor Series 2000 discussion - that PPV is far from a DUD but it's not particularly good. I'll always have a place in my heart for the Austin/HHH brawl since I remember being legit shocked and scared as a kid when Trips was dropped from that forklift. I wouldn't mind seeing a review, KO Bossy. Go ahead.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hoping to slam through discs 2 and 3 of *Falls Count Anywhere *this weekend cause I'm REALLY excited for Bret's new dvd. Looking forward to... everything.


I watched a bit of that DVD the other day. There's some good old school stuff on there that isn't on many other sets.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even as a kid I laughed at the Austin vs Triple H moment that ended the PPV. Never bought it for a second. Plus, the non-bleeped heavy swear word was worth a chuckle as a youngster. The immature mind at work.

So, Great American Bash '97 held up well following Slamboree. Certainly not as strong, yet can be classified as a good show outside of an uber slow Glacier/Wrath match and one of the worst in Konnan/Morrus. Konnan was legit the worst guy on the roster. Mongo was having better matches in '97. Benoit vs Meng Death Match II wasn't as great as the first, yet plenty enough fitting for a rematch. Slower pacing lent itself to believe in the actual gritty brutality that was the post-match scene when both had to be assisted out of the ring. Some shots in the match were so boss. Such as Benoit straight kicking Meng right in the top of the head - knocking Meng down instantly. Good stuff.

Downloading Bash at the Beach '97 right now. Fingers crossed this holds up. :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My Top 20 WWE Matches for 2003:

1. Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE Championship) - Smackdown 2003 *(*****)*
2. Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE Championship) - Smackdown 2003 - Ironman *(*****)*
3. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 19 *(*****)*
4. The Rock vs. Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 19 *(****3/4)*
5. Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE Championship) - Summerslam 2003 *(****3/4)*
6. Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - Bad Blood 2003 *(****1/2)*
7. Kurt Angle vs. Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - Vengeance 2003 *(****1/2)*
8. Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE Championship) - Wrestlemania 19 *(****1/2)*
9. Charlie Hass & Shelton Benjamin vs. Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman (for the WWE Tag Team Championships) - Vengeance 2003 *(****1/4)*
10. Undertaker vs. John Cena - Vengeance 2003 *(****1/4)*
11. Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show (for the WWE Championship) - Judgement Day 2003 - Stretcher Match *(****)*
12. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (for the US Championship) - Vengeance 2003 *(****)*
13. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle - No Mercy 2003 *(***3/4)*
14. Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Mercy 2003 - Biker Chain Match *(***3/4)*
15. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno vs. Tajiri (for the US Championship - Summerslam 2003 *(***1/2)*
16. Kevin Nash vs. Triple H (for the WHC) - Bad Blood 2003 - HIAC *(***1/2)*
17. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven 2003 *(***1/2)*
18. Christian vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Unforgiven 2003 *(***1/4)*
19. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Armageddon 2003 *(***1/4)*
20. Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg - Bad Blood 2003 *(***)*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hmmm... seems to be missing something... Oh yes, this:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2#.UTndT1eFmSo

It'll make it onto your list, guaranteed. Also, where in the world is Angle/Benoit from the Rumble?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hmmm... seems to be missing something... Oh yes, this:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2#.UTndT1eFmSo
> 
> It'll make it onto your list, guaranteed. Also, where in the world is Angle/Benoit from the Rumble?


Ah yes, Angle/Benoit from the Rumble even though i don't like it as much as others will probably make my top 10.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For anyone who needs it:

*TLC Match for the World Tag Team Championship
Edge & Christian vs. Dudley Boyz vs. Hardy Boyz - TLCII - Summerslam 2000*

Tagged Classic Version - Undedited/Unblurred:

https://hotfile.com/dl/197458528/3aa0dd9/TLC_II_-_Summerslam2000.avi.html


----------



## Mike Hero (Nov 15, 2012)

*WWE DVD Suggestion*

Just finished watching the streak and Attitude Era DVD collections. I've seen edges box set, Randy Orton's Bio and Rey Mysterios. What other WWE DVD's should I watch. I heard Wrestling with Shadows is good. What do you guys think.


----------



## Dudechi (Feb 18, 2013)

*Re: WWE DVD Suggestion*

Punks is good, Austin's is good. Beyond the Mat is interesting.


----------



## Mikefromhell (Mar 13, 2012)

*Re: WWE DVD Suggestion*

i liked the batista dvd aswell


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Survivor Series 2000 belongs in the same category as Wrestlemania 2000....just a bit underwhelming. Not terrible by any means, but disappointing considering the quality of the year for the most part. 

Austin/Hunter was a fun brawl but the car stuff at the end felt like it belonged in 1997 or 1998. Even in late 2000 it felt like the company was past stunts like that for me. It felt too corny and OTT.

Undertaker/Kurt was only the second match they had if I remember correctly? Again, these two had classics years later but in 2000 neither man was at their best. I actually liked the screwy ending though, made me chuckle in the good way.

Rikishi vs The Rock was MOTN, and most seem to agree from what I've read. I have a soft spot for this match/story, because in late 2000 I was still a total mark and I absolutely HATED that Rikishi had turned and inadvertently cost Rocky the championship. Rock came into the match with bad ribs and he sold them like an absolute champ. I dare say this is one of Rock's best F.I.P performances ever. Crowd was with him every step of the way.

And to answer whoever asked about good DVDs to watch:

Breaking The Code: Chris Jericho
Bret Hart: The Best There Is...
CM Punk: Best In The World
Greatest Rivalries: Bret vs Shawn
Hell In A Cell compilation
Wrestling With Shadows
Iron Will: Elimination Chamber
Ladder Match #1
Macho Madness: Randy Savage Collection
Mick Foley: Greatest Hits and Misses
Epic Journey of The Rock
Steve Austin: Bottom Line On The Most Popular Superstar Of All Time


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Better PPV year for WWF? 1998, 1999, or 2000? Feel like downloading some shows, shoot.


2000>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>1998>>>>>>>>>>>1999

Royal Rumble 2000
No Way Out 2000
Backlash 2000 (Y)
Judgement Day 2000
Fully Loaded 2000 (Y)
SummerSlam 2000

All excellent pay per views. Mania was a bit of a wash out that year due to the ridiculous amount of throwaway tag matches and the severe lack of singles matches. WWF missed a big opportunity in the main event as well, they should have booked Rock/Trips instead of the four way. Essentially Backlash 2000 should have happened at Mania instead.

1998 didn't have any stellar pay per views but the following are worth watching:

Mania XIV
Over the Edge 1998
SummerSlam 1998
Survivor Series 1998 is also highly entertaining from a storyline perspective but the wrestling is garbage, although the main event is very solid.

I don't care for WWF's 1999 pay per views. That was RussoMania running wild right there. Just check out the Austin matches.



funnyfaces1 said:


> The only decent match that I recall from SvS 2000 was Rock/Rikishi, and that was entirely due to Rock's selling and nothing more. How can such a great year for wrestling have this shitstain? LOL at the Jericho/Kane feud relating to coffee and the Undertaker/Angle ending.


"Daddy's little princess" replaced Chris "the GOAT" Kreski as lead writer in November 2000. If you take that into account then you should start to understand why the quality of WWF pay per views started to decline, at least on the creative/booking side.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hmmm... seems to be missing something... Oh yes, this:
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2#.UTndT1eFmSo
> 
> It'll make it onto your list, guaranteed. Also, where in the world is Angle/Benoit from the Rumble?


I was hoping you'd plug it. Guy seemed to only do PPVs b/c he could have had a LOT more TV matches make the list. Angle vs Benoit probably wouldn't make it for me, haha.



Mike Hero said:


> Just finished watching the streak and Attitude Era DVD collections. I've seen edges box set, Randy Orton's Bio and Rey Mysterios. What other WWE DVD's should I watch. I heard Wrestling with Shadows is good. What do you guys think.


Anything associated with WCW.

Can't go wrong with Rise & Fall of ECW either. Or Mick Foley's Greatest Hits & Misses.

---------

Downloaded Bash at the Beach '97. It's held up VERY well. Sure Mongo vs Jarrett sucks b/c Jarrett was honestly a no good hack in 1997, but the rest of the card is pretty stellar. Including that amazing opener. Ernest Miller once showed promise. Glacier could be capable of working a match. Wrath isn't bad when actually on point. Mortis is the man as everyone already knew. Great match. So different, so interesting. Those guys went out there and did work - their own type. Lovelovelove it. I was going to pimp it regardless, makes it all the better BLACKANDRE will probably see this and agree.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Downloaded Bash at the Beach '97. It's held up VERY well. Sure Mongo vs Jarrett sucks b/c Jarrett was honestly a no good hack in 1997, but the rest of the card is pretty stellar. Including that amazing opener. Ernest Miller once showed promise. Glacier could be capable of working a match. Wrath isn't bad when actually on point. Mortis is the man as everyone already knew. Great match. So different, so interesting. Those guys went out there and did work - their own type. Lovelovelove it. I was going to pimp it regardless, makes it all the better *BLACK*ANDRE will probably see this and agree.


**FIXED*

and...

"Who better than Kanyon?"...Mortis in that match was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*BLACK*

Mortis was totally in it. Kanyon was no one at the time. Who betta? MORTIS. THE CREEPY KICKBOXER FROM MONGOLIA OR SOME SHIT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> My Top 20 WWE Matches for 2003:
> 
> 1. Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE Championship) - Smackdown 2003 *(*****)*
> 2. Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE Championship) - Smackdown 2003 - Ironman *(*****)*
> ...


Good list but what about Lesnar vs BenoYt from Smackdown and the Bischoff vs Austin Survivor Series elimination tag?

And of course Angle/Benoit from RR.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Am I the only one who never understands why people seem to obsess about the Jericho/Kane feud from November-December 2000 originally starting from spilt coffee? Like people seem to make out like that's necessarily a bad thing but I found it one of the more simpler ways to begin a fresh feud. By chance Jericho spills coffee on Kane, Jericho being the humorous and carefree guy doesn't come off sincere in apologising and Kane is just looking for an excuse to hurt someone. Ergo Kane beats the piss out of Jericho and Jericho's pride and confidence means he keeps coming back for more rather than letting Kane getting one over on him, and boom a mini feud develops.

2000 is arguably the best year in the company's history, though I do think August-December is significantly weaker than January-July. Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series & Armageddon were all lacking in good-great matches with only Rock/Angle and Rock/Rikishi standing out. Can't recall much about Benoit/HHH from No Mercy but no other match from PPV or TV immediately jumps out to me. Between Royal Rumble-Fully Loaded however the quality was astounding with HHH/Cactus, the Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7, HHH/Rock Backlash & Judgement Day, HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing at Fully Loaded, HHH/TAKA on Smackdown etc. Just a stacked period.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I actually preferred Mortis to Kanyon, probably something to with being a complete and utter mark in 1997 and LOVING WCW/NWO Revenge. I always used Mortis in that game.

About to sit through SummerSlam 1996 for the first time in ages. I remember the main event being half way decent and the boiler room brawl being utter shite which wasn't helped by the CAMERA FEED BEING LOST (even if worked or not, it sucked). Yoko breaking the rope in the free for all is another flash back. Wish me luck.

Oh and *WOOLY*, I agree that the latter part of WWF's 2000 was incredibly weak in comparison to the exception New year's - Summer of 2000. It's almost as if they burned through all of their good shit too soon.

Seriously though, for those who have NEVER seen Backlash or Fully Loaded from that year, go watch one or BOTH...NOW!

As far as the coffee thing, it wasn't necessarily bad, but it was feeble in comparison to some of the other angles that were going on at the time ("I DID IT FOR THE ROCK" not being one of them). I guess that WWF felt that Kane could get a lot of heat from that feud :hmm:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Am I the only one who never understands why people seem to obsess about the Jericho/Kane feud from November-December 2000 originally starting from spilt coffee? Like people seem to make out like that's necessarily a bad thing but I found it one of the more simpler ways to begin a fresh feud. By chance Jericho spills coffee on Kane, Jericho being the humorous and carefree guy doesn't come off sincere in apologising and Kane is just looking for an excuse to hurt someone. Ergo Kane beats the piss out of Jericho and Jericho's pride and confidence means he keeps coming back for more rather than letting Kane getting one over on him, and boom a mini feud develops.
> 
> 2000 is arguably the best year in the company's history, though I do think August-December is significantly weaker than January-July. Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series & Armageddon were all lacking in good-great matches with only Rock/Angle and Rock/Rikishi standing out. Can't recall much about Benoit/HHH from No Mercy but no other match from PPV or TV immediately jumps out to me. Between Royal Rumble-Fully Loaded however the quality was astounding with HHH/Cactus, the Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7, HHH/Rock Backlash & Judgement Day, HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing at Fully Loaded, HHH/TAKA on Smackdown etc. Just a stacked period.


Great post. Agree with everything said here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Am I the only one who never understands why people seem to obsess about the Jericho/Kane feud from November-December 2000 originally starting from spilt coffee? Like people seem to make out like that's necessarily a bad thing but I found it one of the more simpler ways to begin a fresh feud. By chance Jericho spills coffee on Kane, Jericho being the humorous and carefree guy doesn't come off sincere in apologising and Kane is just looking for an excuse to hurt someone. Ergo Kane beats the piss out of Jericho and Jericho's pride and confidence means he keeps coming back for more rather than letting Kane getting one over on him, and boom a mini feud develops.
> 
> 2000 is arguably the best year in the company's history, though I do think August-December is significantly weaker than January-July. Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series & Armageddon were all lacking in good-great matches with only Rock/Angle and Rock/Rikishi standing out. Can't recall much about Benoit/HHH from No Mercy but no other match from PPV or TV immediately jumps out to me. Between Royal Rumble-Fully Loaded however the quality was astounding with HHH/Cactus, the Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7, HHH/Rock Backlash & Judgement Day, HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing at Fully Loaded, HHH/TAKA on Smackdown etc. Just a stacked period.


Anything to nitpick. It grew from the coffee too. It eventually led to Kane wanting to demolish the happy-go-lucky funny "pretty boy" rock star. Not "he spilled coffee, mentioned burned, grr mad" fiasco some tend to think. Survivor Series match was fairly solid - a tad gritty in spots. Armageddon last man standing was pretty good. I liked the program. Gave both something to do before Rumble rolled around where both had a damn near career defining night.

The late summer-winter period had a nice influx of new faces/gimmicks work out. + Austin returning. Raven & Regal showed up on the scene. Right to Censor began. Angle rose to prominence. True, match quality did take a dive on the PPVs. Entertainment remained. Doesn't hurt the Radicalz continued to earn their time in the sun. Plus, the latter months had a fun European Championship division. Champs were Saturn, Al Snow, & Regal. Sign me up. Not sure if what I'm getting at even proves I'm disagreeing with you in terms of what half of the year was strong, but I suppose I <3 2000 so much that I'll claim the entire year to have its high points even when "match for match" the latter PPVs did take a slight dip in comparison. 

Ramble over. *sheesh @ me.* 



BLACKANDRE said:


> I actually preferred Mortis to Kanyon, probably something to with being a complete and utter mark in 1997 and LOVING WCW/NWO Revenge. I always used Mortis in that game.
> 
> About to sit through SummerSlam 1996 for the first time in ages. I remember the main event being half way decent and the boiler room brawl being utter shite which wasn't helped by the CAMERA FEED BEING LOST (even if worked or not, it sucked). Yoko breaking the rope in the free for all is another flash back. Wish me luck.


They were about the same for me. I marked for the man in general. Mortis ruled since I'm generally a sucker for the "cool" gimmicks on aesthetic purposes + the character had a fun late 90's backstory. Kanyon was the man himself. From the start vs & w/Raven to his eventual cocky side coming through. Heck of an underrated talent, imo.

I swear I'm the only guy who worships the Boiler Room Brawl. Match owns. Undertaker vs Foley destroy each other in a harsh surrounding for 26 minutes. YES.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Oh and *WOOLY*, I agree that the latter part of WWF's 2000 was incredibly weak in comparison to the exception New year's - Summer of 2000. It's almost as if they burned through all of their good shit too soon.
> 
> Seriously though, for those who have NEVER seen Backlash or Fully Loaded from that year, go watch one or BOTH...NOW!
> 
> As far as the coffee thing, it wasn't necessarily bad, but it was feeble in comparison to some of the other angles that were going on at the time ("I DID IT FOR THE ROCK" not being one of them). I guess that WWF felt that Kane could get a lot of heat from that feud :hmm:


I get its not exactly something you'd want to be a staple as to how to build feuds in general, but I think the character dynamic of both rubbing the other the wrong way and immediately creating a mutual disliking of the other gets overlooked just because of the coffee circumstance. I think all the convulted and elaborate angles in the Attitude Era just has me championing something as off-handed and simple as a harmless accident launching a two month feud, rather than an elaborate and drawn out soap opera esque storyline.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Summerslam free for all :lmao I had completely forgotten about the "beach" scene. Todd harassing Sunny, Goldust in full gear with trunks over the top, Mero in full on cheesy goof mode :lol Watching WWE today you would think that things had never changed.

The one GREAT thing about Unforgiven 2000 was Raven's debut. I marked out like fuck for that during the live broadcast on channel 4 :mark:

Speaking of which, does anybody else (Brits) remember watching pay per views live on C4? ADVERTS, BLEEPS, BLURRING. It might have been free, but it was shit.

I get you *WOOLY*. I don't hate it either, but I can see why some people would find it _overly_ cheesy. It just seemed/seems lame in comparison to the feuds involving Foley/HHH, Jericho/HHH, Rock/Benoit. Honestly, I think it suffered because it happened in a year where WWF was outstanding creatively, and not so much because it was bad. There's nothing wrong with simplicity when it's effective.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not happy with the lack of love for Angle/Taker at SS 00. Underrated match. Liked it a ton on last watch:

*The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - Survivor Series 2000*

Love how they set up the screwy finish right from the start, with having Angle come out looking super confident, despite being afraid of The Undertaker leading up to the match. Its one of those small things that I never really noticed until this watch, but it helps make it a whole lot better in the long run.

Angle is the champ here, with his first title defence on PPV, on the same PPV that he made his debut on just one year ago. This is also the PPV where The Undertaker made his debut, 10 years ago, and would mark The Undertaker's first one on one title match since his return earlier in the year.

Before the bell even rings, Angle goes to the outside and remains there, circling the ring awaiting the best time to enter, while The Undertaker paces up and down the ring waiting for Angle to get in so we can start this thing. Angle doesn't seem to want to get in, so The Undertaker gives him an incentive to start the match; he brings in a steel chair and tells Angle to hit him with it!

Angle wastes no time in nailing the Dead Man with the chair, and the match can officially begin now! The Undertaker's mind games come into effect now, as he just stands back up after taking the chair to the back and numerous punches to the head, and stares right back at Angle before taking him to school.

Poor Angle keeps trying to make a come back, only to be stopped by the ever dominant Undertaker. A nice change from the usual WWF match, with the heel attempting a come back only to be constantly stopped by the face. Not only is it a nice change, but also makes sense given Angle's character and The Undertaker's character at the time.

Just like their Fully Loaded match, its the legs of The Undertaker that prove to be his weakness, and allow Angle to get back in control of the match, even if its just for a few seconds. The Undertaker brawls his way out of any leg attacks, and when Angle starts throwing his own bombs right back at him, he goes to the mat with an arm bar!

Edge & Christian show up, and we assume that this is the reason Angle is confident, as they distract the referee while Angle taps out to the arm bar.

Again, the legs of 'Taker play part in allowing Angle to regain control of the match, this time for a longer period of time.

The Undertaker fights out again, and lands a chokeslam, but again E&C are there to distract the referee, allowing Angle the time to recover. Its back to the legs of 'Taker for Angle, nice of him to keep going back to what works instead of going suplex crazy .

The main theme of the match here seems to be that Angle cannot put The Undertaker down, as no matter what he does to the legs, no matter how often E&C interfere, the Dead Man keeps getting up and coming back. A perfect build to the finish IMO.

Angle keeps attacking the leg, and keeps trying to beat The Undertaker, but its just not happening. Angle knows he has a backup plan, but has been putting it off and putting it off, most likely in hopes of being able to beat 'Taker on his own. Its only when The Undertaker is about to Tombstone Angle that he finally realises he needs to go to plan B, so he rolls out of the ring, goes under the ring... and then we get the screwy finish with Eric Angle.

I remember liking this match, but I never thought it was as good as I do now. Its not a classic, and its far from their best match together, but its still fucking great. You have a great story going on throughout the match, starting with Angle being confident at the start despite not being during the build up to the match, E&C interfering, The Undertaker refusing to stay down, and finally Angle going with his backup plan when he realises nothing else will work.

*Rating: ***1/2*


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Speaking of which, does anybody else (Brits) remember watching pay per views live on C4? ADVERTS, BLEEPS, BLURRING. It might have been free, but it was shit.


YES. Argh so frustrating. One instant I particularly remember was Big Show returning at Royal Rumble 2001, and literally as he entered they cut to an ad break. It completely ruined the moment! I was pretty happy when Sky Sports got the rights since we were already paying for it anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*** for Undertaker vs Angle II. 

Never quite kicks into the next gear needed to exceed past "pretty good" for me. Do like the finish. Angle using his intelligence. I see no faults. Would a dirty finish have been better? Nope.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

BLACKANDRE said:


> Speaking of which, does anybody else (Brits) remember watching pay per views live on C4? ADVERTS, BLEEPS, BLURRING. It might have been free, but it was shit.


 I remember those times very well yeah. I remember watching Serie 'A' highlights before WWF (at the time) came on. I think WCW was on Channel 5, right? Oh the memories


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> I remember those times very well yeah. I remember watching Serie 'A' highlights before WWF (at the time) came on. I think WCW was in Channel 5, right? Oh the memories


In mid-2000, WCW used to be on TNT over here. I remember that Cartoon Network used to change to TNT at a certain time, and they'd show WCW pretty late at night. You're right though, it was on Channel 5 before that I think. Ah, memories.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> 2000 is arguably the best year in the company's history, though I do think August-December is significantly weaker than January-July. Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series & Armageddon were all lacking in good-great matches with only Rock/Angle and Rock/Rikishi standing out. Can't recall much about Benoit/HHH from No Mercy but no other match from PPV or TV immediately jumps out to me. Between Royal Rumble-Fully Loaded however the quality was astounding with HHH/Cactus, the Dallas 10 man tag from 2/7, HHH/Rock Backlash & Judgement Day, HHH/Jericho Last Man Standing at Fully Loaded, *HHH/TAKA on Smackdown* etc. Just a stacked period.


Do you mean on Raw or did they have a match on Smackdown I haven't seen?

HHH/TAKA is a gem. Awesome sub-10 minute title defense.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> In mid-2000, WCW used to be on TNT over here. *I remember that Cartoon Network used to change to TNT at a certain time, and they'd show WCW pretty late at night*. You're right though, it was on Channel 5 before that I think. Ah, memories.


Fuck, yeah i remember that :ex: Man, seems like an AGE ago...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought their only match was from Smackdown.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Do you mean on Raw or did they have a match on Smackdown I haven't seen?
> 
> HHH/TAKA is a gem. Awesome sub-10 minute title defense.


Yeah as Cody said I only recall them having a Smackdown match, never one on Raw.

It is excellent though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Raw 4/10/00


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Just watched Yoko/Austin. I loved how Austin gave the game away by declining to use the ropes when trying to bring 'Zuna with multiple clotheslines. Awkward as fuck. As a 10 year old mark I definitely wouldn't have picked up on that at the time.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> YES. Argh so frustrating. One instant I particularly remember was Big Show returning at Royal Rumble 2001, and literally as he entered they cut to an ad break. It completely ruined the moment! I was pretty happy when Sky Sports got the rights since we were already paying for it anyway.


Exactly! I mean honestly, advert breaks during the royal rumble fpalm

I also had Sky which is what pissed me off about the whole thing. We were getting the US pay per views for free (with sky sports subscription, good old parents) anyway. Channel 4 really runied that whole deal for me.



Oliver-94 said:


> I remember those times very well yeah. I remember watching Serie 'A' highlights before WWF (at the time) came on. I think WCW was on Channel 5, right? Oh the memories


WCW was also on TNT, uncensored and unedited. They played Nitro in full, which was good in 1996-1998, but not some much from 1999 onwards.

Channel 5 used the Batman "pow" and "blam" style censors to cover up the use of weapons, didn't they? :lol

*EDIT-* Taka/Trips is great, the last time I watched it was only a couple of days ago. I think my praise of Taka (during my Canadian Stampede fapping) prompted *Yeah1993* to produce a link which had that match at the top.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Raw 4/10/00


Just checked Dailymotion and you're indeed correct. Well stone the crows I always had it in my head it was a Smackdown match. The things you learn.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Top 5 Kurt Angle matches:

5.Angle/Shane O'Mac- KOTR 01
4.Angle/Lesnar- SS 03
3.Angle/Benoit- RR 03
2.Angle/Taker- NWO 06
1.Angle/HBK- WM 21


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Just checked Dailymotion and you're indeed correct. Well stone the crows I always had it in my head it was a Smackdown match. The things you learn.


I know right? Why is my mind remembering blue ropes and the Smackdown set when it clearly happened on RAW. Total mind-trip.



Srdjan99 said:


> Top 5 Kurt Angle matches:
> 
> 5.Angle/Shane O'Mac- KOTR 01
> 4.Angle/Lesnar- SS 03
> ...


The thoughts running through my mind right now. Oh my.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I feel like I've talked about Angle enough to last an eternity, but for argument's sake vs Austin Summerslam '01 is his best match and by a fair bit ahead of the Taker NWO '06 match imo. The Taker Smackdown '03 match and Summerslam '02 Mysterio match would be in the top 5.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Maybe the SD match you peoples is thinking of is Triple H Vs Kaientai & The Brooklyn Brawler - July 5th? Has HHH and Taka in it . And a SHOCKING ending!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal sir, I do believe you're correct. Maybe. I recall a GREAT michinoku driver near fall so idk anymore.

and yeah, Angle's best match is easily vs Austin @ Summerslam 2001. Landslide despite his matches with Undertaker & Mysterio right behind. Summerslam '02 match might be my favorite opener in WWE history. Throwing that out there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I feel like Cal watching Tenru vs KENTA and being oblivious to having already reviewed it twice without remembering. Shocking memory on my part.

I've placed an order from you Cal so I feel that gives me the right to rib you like that  .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was that the match were he referred to both as "Japanese Guy #1" & "Japanese Guy #2"?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

No, that was a Misawa/Kawada match. THE FIEND.

It was for the poll and he was looking for top 5 Tenryu matches to watch in a day and I said vs KENTA was the best from '05-'09. He was sure he'd seen it but had to be reminded by Craig he'd seen and reviewed it twice. Still love ya Cal <3 .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao still amazes even me that I did that. How could I not know I'd already seen the match? THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ME?

Anyone who answers that is getting banned :side:.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cal do you know Keiji Mutoh has a separate famed alias :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> No, that was a Misawa/Kawada match. THE FIEND.
> 
> It was for the poll and he was looking for top 5 Tenryu matches to watch in a day and I said vs KENTA was the best from '05-'09. He was sure he'd seen it but had to be reminded by Craig he'd seen and reviewed it twice. Still love ya Cal <3 .





WOOLCOCK said:


> Cal do you know Keiji Mutoh has a separate famed alias :side:


:lmao

At least it wasn't Hashimoto. Though not knowing Kawada is pretty bad. The silicon berk. (I kid. )

Damn. Need to check dailymotion but I might have some hell finding the final Clash of the Champions to watch. #XXXV. Nearing up on it and I think it follows Road Wild. Oh I hope I can find it. If not I'll have to settle for one two matches I've found via youtube. Luckily one is a Lucha atomicos match. Too bad it has Villano IV in it. Fear if Hector Garza is the other. He's like a slightly better version of Kofi Kingston. All of this athletic talent yet he does NOTHING of value. Flips over guys 5 times, then tags. Every single FUXIN time. Torneo is pretty incredible when he doesn't botch it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Villano IV had the 2nd best match from 2012 w/ Santo in a TXT tag from 2/25. Man is a beast in brawls, you shall not hate Cody!

Oh btw Cody those WOS matches are just sitting around waiting for ya. They've been forgotten and burned from the memory like lepers, but they're still there :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Villano IV had the 2nd best match from 2012 w/ Santo in a TXT tag from 2/25. Man is a beast in brawls, you shall not hate Cody!
> 
> Oh btw Cody those WOS matches are just sitting around waiting for ya. They've been forgotten and burned from the memory like lepers, but they're still there :side:


Ha. Knew one of them actually did something of note eventually. Although he's brought absolutely nothing to his WCW tenure. I'll base it off of that. Hector Garza point remains. Didn't like him in TNA either.

They'll be warm and inviting to me once I manage to slam through WCW circa 1997. 8*D

...or maybe when I decide to use free time to actually watch a match instead of popping in something else. Damn these sudden urges.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 ANGEL matches:

1. vs Benoit - RR 03
2. vs Taker - NWO 06
3. vs Austin - SS 01
4. vs Lesnar - SD 03
5. vs Taker - SD 03 / vs Lesnar - SS 03


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^The No Mercy 02 tag would be somewhere in the vicinity too imo.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I suppose it would be more appropriate to ask here given the company, but I'm just so used to discussing anything Jarrett related with Cody in the TNA DVD thread, but does anyone have any good Jarrett matches from WCW? I ask because I never watched WCW growing up, didn't unfortunately discover wrestling until 2003, and over the last few months I've checked out some of his WCW stuff through YouTube while also revisiting and reviewing many of his old TNA matches in the TNA review thread. Some of the matches I've seen on him in WCW are absolutely trash, mainly because of the awful WCW booking, like this match for example:






A 13 minute video and 6 minutes are dedicated to the pre-match interview and entrances so it was essentially a 6-7 minute title match. :side: Jarrett's a very capable performer I know that, and I'm wondering of any good matches he had then? Were his matches with Booker T good? I've seen them about on YouTube.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked a match between Jeff and Malenko at some point. 96 on PPV maybe?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Jarrett/Benoit Ladder Match from Starrcade 99 immediately springs to mind when you mentioned Jarrett in WCW.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Top 5 ANGEL matches:
> 
> 1. vs Benoit - RR 03
> 2. vs Taker - NWO 06
> ...


:mark: Just rewatched the match. God damn incredible. Almost tempted to give it ***** just because of how enjoyable it is to watch :mark:

EDIT: On a side note, those Angle Slams were beautiful. lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hard for me to do a top 5 for Angle because of how drastically my taste and opinions have changed over the years. I know Summerslam '01 v Austin, No Way Out '06 v Taker and the Smackdown iron man v Lesnar would definitely be in it. I've always loved Royal Rumble '03 v Benoit so that would most likely be up there but I need to re-watch it. Seen a lot of people go down on that one and I have a feeling it could be the same for me. The Shane McMahon match falls into that same category as something that I've always loved but I'm not sure how I'd feel about it now. No idea what I think about the HBK matches tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> ^The No Mercy 02 tag would be somewhere in the vicinity too imo.


Yeah, that one is definitely in the top 10.



RenegadexParagon said:


> :mark: Just rewatched the match. God damn incredible. Almost tempted to give it ***** just because of how enjoyable it is to watch :mark:


Didn't realize just how great the match was until I rewatched it the second time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I suppose it would be more appropriate to ask here given the company, but I'm just so used to discussing anything Jarrett related with Cody in the TNA DVD thread, but does anyone have any good Jarrett matches from WCW? I ask because I never watched WCW growing up, didn't unfortunately discover wrestling until 2003, and over the last few months I've checked out some of his WCW stuff through YouTube while also revisiting and reviewing many of his old TNA matches in the TNA review thread. Some of the matches I've seen on him in WCW are absolutely trash, mainly because of the awful WCW booking, like this match for example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He had good chemistry with DDP. Scope out all of their matches. Booker matches were solid too iirc.

vs Benoit at Starrcade '96 is probably his best match from WCW.

Funny you bring this up b/c I just rewatched a match of his to further my point that Jarrett was actually trash in 1997. Avoid the matches he had that year. Like zero or worth seeing. vs Dean Malenko from Slamboree is one of the only eyesores on an otherwise strong event. So boring - a total snoozefest of useless submissions which go nowhere except to fill 15 minutes. 3/4* for it. Ugh.



Big Z said:


> I liked a match between Jeff and Malenko at some point. 96 on PPV maybe?


Impossible. All their matches SUCKED. _(well maybe this Saturday Night match will be a gem. Third time's the charm? We'll see.)_


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Clique said:


> Jarrett/Benoit Ladder Match from Starrcade 99 immediately springs to mind when you mentioned Jarrett in WCW.


That was the only decent match on the entire card. The ONLY decent match. 

Must I bring up the Sid/Nash powerbomb match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bring up the Crowbar on a Pole match or Vampiro vs Oklahoma. Can't forget about the Varsity Club's fumble of a sub 5 minute match. Or even Madusa winning the WCW Crusierweight Championship. What a glorious event. Tip of the iceberg was referenced only. That's the fun part.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jarrett and Malenko had a decent match on the 6/9/97 edition of Nitro. The pacing for that match was much better than that awful Slamboree match and the finishing stretch was pretty good. Jarrett and Eddie also had some good tag team matches together, but they certainly were not on the level of the Jericho/Guerrero tag matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nitro match wasn't too much better, but yeah, it was a step above. Just finished it. *

Eddie pretty much solidifying his heel turn was the only "good" part about it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The only good thing about that match I posted was Jarrett's entrance lol, that's how I got the gif in my sig.  



Clique said:


> Jarrett/Benoit Ladder Match from Starrcade 99 immediately springs to mind when you mentioned Jarrett in WCW.





HayleySabin said:


> He had good chemistry with DDP. Scope out all of their matches. Booker matches were solid too iirc.
> 
> vs Benoit at Starrcade '96 is probably his best match from WCW.
> 
> Funny you bring this up b/c I just rewatched a match of his to further my point that Jarrett was actually trash in 1997. Avoid the matches he had that year. Like zero or worth seeing. vs Dean Malenko from Slamboree is one of the only eyesores on an otherwise strong event. So boring - a total snoozefest of useless submissions which go nowhere except to fill 15 minutes. 3/4* for it. Ugh.


Thanks. Not surprised about the matches with Benoit, anything with Benoit in is usually good. 

I was going to mention DDP, seen some of their matches on YouTube about but haven't checked them out. 

Booker/Jarrett from Bash at the Beach 2000 good?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Your thoughts 'bout Cena/Jericho from Vengeance 05?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Since Nostalgia has been watching Edge's 'Decade of Decadence' DVD, I've been running through a few Edge matches that I haven't seen for a while.

*World Heavyweight Championship: Triple H (c) vs Edge - Raw February 7th 2005 (in Japan)* 

Interesting angle to this match since both men at the time were heel. This was around the time when Batista and HHH were just showing signs of resentment and towards each other.

This starts off with some nice interchanges between the two, and the crowd are really respectful to the holds and counters, but this is as animated as they get throughout the match sadly. Edge hits a spear into the corner, but then goes for another one and HHH drives him into the ring post. Trips then works on Edge's shoulder briefly before Edge comes back and takes control. A suplex on the outside plus a few power moves mean HHH's back is hit and Edge works on that. He brings out his Edge-cator submission (wish he'd have used that move more) and HHH sells it like death.

This was turning into a great match but the finishing stretch hurts it. Edge goes for the spear but takes out the ref, has HHH pinned but obviously no count and then Naitch arrives with a chair and he eats a spear. Then Batista arrives and it's a bit of a mess until he spinebusters edge and HHH hits the Pedigree for the win. The show itself ends superbly though as Batista raises HHH's hand with the title, but stares at the gold until HHH notices, with a worried look on his face. 

Solid match but could have been a lot better. The crowd was pretty dead and the Batista interference, while obviously understandable, hurt the finish. A shame Edge and HHH never had that many matches together though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam (Raw 12/1/2004)*
- After beating RVD for the Intercontinental Championship, Orton has to defend the title in the obligatory rematch and it happens right here in the second Raw of 2004. This is right after Mick Foley "walked out" and Orton spat on his face on the exit and since the show is in Long Island, they keep teasing an appearance from him. Starts off with Orton outsmarting RVD with some heelish tactics but soon turns to RVD being in control as he whips Orton to the steel post where Orton slips and fails to cover his face with his hands, thus being busted open the hard way and being almost knocked out. RVD takes control until the commercial break that comes right after a car driving into the arena is shown. Orton suddenly gets an adrenaline rush (according to himself) and starts to get some more offense in. This may be the first time he ever used the Gutwrench Neckbreaker and he also busts out some nice submissions holds such as a modified Camel Clutch and Leg Scissor Choke (almost like the Chickenwing) to wear RVD down. RVD fights back after that and then the finishing stretch comes when Orton ducks a spinning double heel kick which hits the referee instead. Orton does his best Eddie Guerrero impression by lowblowing RVD and then yelling to the ref while laying on the mat, playing possum in hopes of a double countout. RVD gets up so Orton has no choice but to do the same and after his RKO attempt fails, RVD counters him and goes for the 5 Star Frog Splash but Orton manages to get up to pull the ropes and then he hits the Spike DDT from the top rope which surprisingly enough, finishes the match. The Foley teasing killed the crowd to an extent (specially to result in absolutely nothing) but I really enjoyed this one. Add this to the list of quality Orton matches in 2004. How awesome can he be?

★★★¾


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What's people's thoughts on Taker/Austin from Judgment Day 2001?

Sure one of their matches from this period gets a bit of stick (i think), is this it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

JD 01 is their best match together.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> JD 01 is their best match together.


 Excellent, that'll be my next match to watch me thinks...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Austin JD01- ****1/4

Edge/HHH Raw 2005- *** from what I remember.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Since Royal Rumble 1998 exactly 200 PPV's have taken place. This is if you don't count Rebellion's or Insurextion's. I don't because they never booked matches for them or even really advanced many storylines.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> What's people's thoughts on Taker/Austin from Judgment Day 2001?


I love that match. Good PPV as well.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just watched Jeff Jarrett vs Booker T - Bash at The Beach 2000 - WCW World Title match. 

This match takes place because of the infamous incident with Hogan on this PPV. Originally it was supposed to be Hogan vs Jarrett for the title, but Hogan didn't want to lose to Jarrett, so Vince Russo tells Jarrett to lay down in their match and take the pin, which Jarrett does, after which there was an argument between Hogan and Russo and Hogan was never seen in WCW again. Because of the controversial finish to match, Russo set up a new match between Jarrett and Booker T for the title to determine a new Champion. What's interesting is Jarrett talked about this incident on his DVD, blaming not Hogan, but the state of WCW at the time for the stupid decisions like that. 

Anyway onto the match... Jarrett and Booker start off testing the waters with each other with lock ups and headlocks, then literally only a few minutes into the match they take it into the crowd, Jarrett hits Booker with a chair, I'm guessing there was no ring out count/DQ in this match. Then later Jarrett performs a sick piledriver on Booker on the announce Table, and because of this Jarrett controls the match for the next few minutes wearing down Booker with a sleeper hold, Booker then reverses with his own sleeper hold, but then Jarrett reverses into a shinbreaker. Then Jarrett attempts to lock in the Figure of four, but Booker reverses into a inside Cradle, Jarrett then locks in the Figure of four the second time around and Booker after a little while reverses the pressure and then after escaping the lock Jarrett continues to work on the leg of Booker, Booker counters one of Jarrett's attempts to work on the leg and makes his much needed comeback in the match, performing a scissors kick, spinaroonie, and spinebuster, but couldn't put Jarrett away. A few minutes pass and there's a ref bump when Jarrett irish whips Booker into the ref in the corner, Jarrett then goes for the World Title belt to use on Booker, but Booker reverses and uses the belt on him but couldn't put Jarrett away. Jarrett then gets a chair and places it in the corner but it once again backfires on him when Booker sends him into the chair. Then Jarrett annoyed low blows and delivers a stroke to the referee :lol, then goes for his signature Guitar and climbs the top rope, while he's coming off the top rope intending to hit Booker, Booker catches Jeff in midair with a Book End, Booker goes for the pin and a new ref comes down to count the pin for the win. Booker T wins his first WCW World Title here, and of course he went on to be a FIVE TIME WCW Champion. I enjoyed this match I'd rate it *****


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Edge vs Chris Benoit - Raw 4th April 2005 (Night after WM21)*

This match was the night after the money in the bank match at 'Mania 21 the night before, and Benoit looks battered, sporting stitches above his right eye and a bandage on his left arm. The psychology of this match is great as Edge simply doesn't stop trying to wear down Benoit's injured arm. Benoit sells the injury throughout the match really superbly. He screams in agony, rolls out of the ring to rest it and just holds onto it the whole way through. Edge grounds him for a long time with hammer locks that Benoit tries to counter but Edge holds on. Every time Benoit gets on the offensive, Edge counters using the arm and tries to make him tap. Great heel work. Benoit really sells the agony in his eyes. Edge rips off the bandage later in the match but Benoit hits some German suplexes out of nowhere, before missing with a diving headbutt off the top. Edge looks like he's about to win the match, but Benoit locks him in a shoddy looking sharpshooter, but Edge sells it well and reaches the ropes. 

Benoit is able to get Edge locked in the crossface despite trying to not use his left arm much. Edge fights out, goes for the spear but misses and Benoit rolls him up for the victory. The crowd was really on Benoit's side, and Edge gets major heat when he throws Benoit into the steps after the match and works on his arm with the chair.

Good match, Benoit's selling of his arm injury was top notch and Edge played the heel superbly well. This was the beginning of him turning into the 'Rated-R Superstar' and his evil grins at the end of the match confirm that.

I'm not much of a STARZ guy, but if I had to rate it I'll give it ***1/2 - ***3/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Was sitting in my car high as fuck at like 3 AM last night and I started thinking about how to make BROCK-GAME epic, and a pretty fucking realistic idea came into my mind ; Have BROCK come to the ring with 'Enter Sandman' playing. I don't necessarily mean that Enter Sandman would play the entire way, but if they did it ala HHH @ Wrestlemania XXVII with 'For Whom The Bell Tolls', they can certainly do it for Brock. Just have 'Enter Sandman' play until Brock is revealed then have it switch to his WWE theme, that would be fucking AWESOME.

You just KNOW they would do this, especially since Trips is one of the biggest fans of Metallica on the fucking planet, hence the WWE using Metallica songs the past two Wrestlemanias. AWSHIT.

On a side note, Mysterio vs Kane from Summerslam 2010 is criminally underrated, while the rest of this show so far hasn't been that great, anybody wanna throw out some STARZ!* for this bitch ? Orton-Sheamus was one of the most borderline boring as fuck matches I've ever seen. It wasn't BAD I suppose, just the dullest thing I've ever seen.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Oft, it's been a while but here goes nothing:

Kofi/Ziggles: *1/2
Show destroying SES  *DUD*
Orton/Fella: *3/4
Kane/Mysterio: ***
Team :cena2 - Team soon to be jobbers: ***1/2

Pretty shite show all around


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena's "Troll" gimmick is starting to really make me love the guy on unnatural levels to be honest. This is going to be the first time I've ever seen the Team Nexus vs Team WWE match and I've heard nothing but good besides the ending which naturally everybody hates.

If you stop taking Cena's character for what it SEEMS like it is... "Indestructible face/superman who doesn't job or lose to anybody, GOOD GUY JOHN" , and you start taking your own personal meaning for it .. "Troll character who always wins to slight the hardcore fans who are going to keep watching no matter what, they'll keep paying to see him lose but he never does, all major angles come out with him on top".... You'll become a huge fan of Johnny Boy, trust me. I'd consider him in my top 10 favorites ever now TBH.

JUST LOOK AT THAT FACE 

:cena3

TRY TO TELL ME THAT THIS ISN'T INTENTIONAL.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I love :cena3

DAT FACE OF THE E.

And he ain't going anywhere.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Appreciate the Edge match reviews AlienBountyHunter. Where are you watching these matches from? YouTube/Dailymotion I imagine?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I can't wait to watch Cena bury Punk all year (after WM), purely for the lolz. :lol


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk & Cena will just have main event matches all year round till Rocky comes back for Mania season


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I mean. If you take Cena's character and give it a unique spin as an individual who goes out there and just trolls the fuck out of everybody but at the same time garners cheers from the youth who naturally gravitate towards douchebags anyways, you'll start to put him closer and closer to GOAT status .

When you're a Cena fan you're ALOT happier than when you're a hater, trust me :lol.

Can't believe THE ROID is staying for Extreme Rules, I wish he would just go away forever so I wouldn't be forced into watching any more terrible matches / "Cookie Puss/Twinkie Tits/Fruity Pebbles" nonsense. I'm seriously hoping that he retires @ XXX and gets his HOF induction so that I never have to see him "wrestle" ever again.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Punk & Cena will just have main event matches all year round till Rocky comes back for Mania season


Yep. With Cena winning winning all of those matches :lol Can't wait to read the reactions.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK vs 'British Bulldog' Davey Boy Smith - King Of The Ring 1996

****1/2 - I may have overrated it lol but god i do love this match.

Fuck these two were good together, watched this match about a bazillion times, fucking love it :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nah, Cena will only bury Punk for 2-3 PPV matches. People forget that there's a TON OF PLACES Punk-Cena could go due to the fact that they've never had a gimmick match. Cena vs Punk in any of the following ; Ladder, Ironman, Street Fight, HIAC, LMS, ETC, all have appeal. It's not like Cena-Orton where they bled it dry with every gimmick match known to man..... Plus, Cena-Punk Ironman sounds like it's MOTY before it even happens.

The rest of the year Cena's probably just going to bury guys like The Shield, Cesaro, Henry, etc. He'll probably have another feud with Big Show while we're at it.............

But Yeah, Cena's going to be the one who ends The Shield once and for all, I'm pretty confident about that one as of now.... I'm sorry, but that sounds fucking awesome..... Cena vs Rollins @ one PPV, Cena-Ambrose @ the next one, ending with Cena-Reigns for the final Shield blow off. I would actually love to see all of those matches.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I want Cena/Cesaro for the fucking title this year.

Cesaro doesn't even have to (and obviosuly wouldn't) beat Cena, it'd just be a great match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Even 2-3 burials of Punk by Cena is alot, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's more, especially taking future Raws into consideration. It's time for him to pay the piper big time. Considering that Punk just got beat by Cena on Raw a couple of weeks ago, lost to The Rock twice, will lose at WM to 'Taker, Punk's sure going to be taking on ALOT of losses this year.

I don't even care about the Shield that much. Have no idea what the point of them even is, or this "injustice" they're fighting for. End the Shield and lets watch these guys embark on their singles careers. Fine by me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm thinking Cena-Punk-Rock main events Extreme Rules with Punk taking the pin obviously.

Punk's spending the rest of the year burying everybody else on the roster that isn't Cena though, I'm pretty certain of that.... Jobber to DA STARZ, burying the rest of the roster :lol.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Ambrose is a must see in the near future. Surprinsingly I wouldn't be that excited for another regular Punk/Cena match. I really hope for an ER match after WM. But a HiaC or an IronMan one should be fine. Cena/Punk in a TLC match should be freakin' awesome


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

If Cena is going on the rampage everyone is predicting CM Punk could suffer. Even in 2011 when Punk was as hot as he will ever be, he only defeated Cena once clean, at that was debatable wether you class that as clean.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

zep81 said:


> HBK vs 'British Bulldog' Davey Boy Smith - King Of The Ring 1996
> 
> ****1/2 - I may have overrated it lol but god i do love this match.
> 
> Fuck these two were good together, watched this match about a bazillion times, fucking love it :mark:


Yeah, I always had that match at ****1/4, so ****1/2 sounds fair. Same range. Awesome match. Haven't watched it in awhile, though. Going to have to give that re-watch soon.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not to mention Punk was overshadowed by whatever Cena was doing anyway.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Shaun_27 said:


> If Cena is going on the rampage everyone is predicting CM Punk could suffer. Even in 2011 when Punk was as hot as he will ever be, he only defeated Cena once clean, at that was debatable wether you class that as clean.


 It wasn't 100% clean IMO. Cena was distracted, allowing Punk to take advantage and get the pin. Punk didn't cheat either but it's definitely not clean. A loss due to a distraction shouldn't count as clean victory. The fact that Cena lost due to a controversial fashion in the very next PPV shows that he was protected.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm 99 percent sure that Reigns will have the most kayfabe success out of the 3 members of The Shield. Ambrose screams STAR as well, but I think just the fact that Reigns fits the mold as WWE's type of guy favors him more than Ambrose for sure. My predictions for the 3 would be somewhat like this at this point ;

Reigns : Multiple time WWE Champion, "Triple H" type heel.
Ambrose : Multiple time WHC and PERHAPS a reign w/ the WWE title. Too good NOT to win it.
Rollins : Upper mid carder. Might win the WHC at some point, multiple time holder of IN and US championships.

All three will be huge players with the company, but I think Reigns will be the biggest for sure.

In regards to Punk being buried by Cena, he's probably going to win whenever he's not wrestling Cena anyways so it doesn't matter. No feud even makes sense to him once Wrestlemania/Extreme Rules is over and he jobs to Undertaker and Rock/Cena perhaps. They have literally NOBODY for him to feud with then as Sheamus and Orton are probably going to be tied up in shit. He'll have a consistent program though, I'm pretty sure of that one (unlike everybody else on the roster who isn't WWE Champion, WHC, or John Cena )


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Punk left me with a bad taste after 2012. Only when i think that we could have seen Cena/Punk at SS, rather then Cena/Punk/Show. Then we could have seen a Cena/Punk at HiaC in a gimmick match but Cena injury and Ryback push made the match to never happen and then at Survivour Series again we could have seen Cena/Punk, but again Ryback push and the debut of Shield took that match from us


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KOK, since your the forum's resident Haitch especialist, what are your thoughts on the 2000 matches with Rawk (including Triple Threat with Shane if you saw it), as well as NM '00 vs Benoit?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Not to mention Punk was overshadowed by whatever Cena was doing anyway.





> *Oliver-94 *It wasn't 100% clean IMO. Cena was distracted, allowing Punk to take advantage and get the pin. Punk didn't cheat either but it's definitely not clean. A loss due to a distraction shouldn't count as clean victory. The fact that Cena lost due to a controversial fashion in the very next PPV shows that he was protected.


Agree with both of these points.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm 99 percent sure that Reigns will have the most kayfabe success out of the 3 members of The Shield. Ambrose screams STAR as well, but I think just the fact that Reigns fits the mold as WWE's type of guy favors him more than Ambrose for sure. My predictions for the 3 would be somewhat like this at this point ;
> 
> Reigns : Multiple time WWE Champion, "Triple H" type heel.
> Ambrose : Multiple time WHC and PERHAPS a reign w/ the WWE title. Too good NOT to win it.
> ...


For me, it's:

Reigns = Batista; powerhouse who doesn't need to say much on the mic, but can improve as Batista did as his career progresses. Multiple time champ.

Ambrose = Not sure, really. I kinda think he's a little too edgy for the current product, but I could see him being a great heel champ. Like you said, he's too talented not to be. I can see fans legit paying money to see him lose/get beat to shit.

Rollins = Jeff Hardy; face turn is imminent once The Shield are done as a collective force and his high-flying/risk-taking style is perfect for getting over as a face. I can see him being a face champ down the line. Rollins/Ambrose feud for the belt would be great at some point. The backstory would be perfect.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF said:


> KOK, since your *the forum's resident Haitch especialist*, what are your thoughts on the 2000 matches with Rawk (including Triple Threat with Shane if you saw it), as well as NM '00 vs Benoit?


I take exception to this.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Nah, Cena will only bury Punk for 2-3 PPV matches. People forget that there's a TON OF PLACES Punk-Cena could go due to the fact that they've never had a gimmick match. Cena vs Punk in any of the following ; Ladder, Ironman, Street Fight, HIAC, LMS, ETC, all have appeal. It's not like Cena-Orton where they bled it dry with every gimmick match known to man..... Plus, Cena-Punk Ironman sounds like it's MOTY before it even happens.
> 
> The rest of the year Cena's probably just going to bury guys like The Shield, Cesaro, Henry, etc. He'll probably have another feud with Big Show while we're at it.............
> 
> *But Yeah, Cena's going to be the one who ends The Shield once and for all, I'm pretty confident about that one as of now.... I'm sorry, but that sounds fucking awesome..... Cena vs Rollins @ one PPV, Cena-Ambrose @ the next one, ending with Cena-Reigns for the final Shield blow off. I would actually love to see all of those matches.*


If this happens, WWE deserves to go under. They did the right thing by having Shield go over the SuperFriends at EC, but Cena needs to stay away from those guys for a long time. They can't to the Shield what they did to Ryback, and have them lose four or five big matches in a row. I don't like Ryback, but they screwed up him big time. 

Shield needs to hold some undercard titles and keep dominating the midcard for a bit longer. I do want to see Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns in singles matches soon, though. 

I've slowly started to realize that in return for us getting Punk as champ for 434 days, we're now getting Cena running over folks for about five-six months.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I agree with you there, Rollins is seems like the next Jeff Hardy. Ambrose could be the type of Randy "The Legend Killer" Orton.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

vs Rock 

Backlash 2000 : ***** 1/4*
Judgment Day 2000 : ***** 1/2*
Insurrextion 2000 : ****

No Mercy 2000 vs Benoit : ***** 1/4*

The match with Shane is just bleh, who cares. The PPV one on one matches are where it's at though, definitely recommended as it's probably Rock's best singular program ever, with the Ironman just being a shade below Brock-Angle for me but it could change depending on what your viewing styles are.

The Benoit match was a classic, shame that it doesn't exist.

ME, *TLK*, and *Starbuck* are the resident HHH/BROCK enthusiasts. We're the SHIELD AGAINST GAME INJUSTICE. Unfortunately I'd be the Rollins of the group .


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I think they really have a chance to make a star with the person who takes the belt off Cena due to what the have done in the past 6 months.

Punk's Reign
Rock showing an interest/winning the title
Title main eventing Mania
The face of the company being the champion post mania.

Build someone like Cesaro up and make a fucking star by beating Cena.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> I take exception to this.


Apologize any inconvenience :side:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

BANKSY said:


> I think they really have a chance to make a star with the person who takes the belt off Cena due to what the have done in the past 6 months.
> 
> Punk's Reign
> Rock showing an interest/winning the title
> ...



Building up a star, and having them finally beat somebody at a big PPV for the title. That *used* to be the company formula for making new stars. 

Take Steve Austin, for example. They took him and built him up with having that WM13 match with Bret. They had him in the upper midcard-main event all 1997, to a year later at WM14, beat the World Champion (HBK). Simple enough formula, but kind of blocked because apparently no one else is allowed to be a star along with King Cena. :lol

But it's still a simple formula and very effective. A shame it rarely, if ever, gets used anymore in WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Man this 25 Greatest Rivalries DVD is shaping up to be something great. Listing reveal #3:

*RIVALRIES*
John Cena vs. Edge
Mick Foley vs. Triple H
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock
*MATCHES*

*WWE Championship Match*
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock
_Rebellion • November 3, 2001_

*Steel Cage Match for the WWE Championship*
John Cena vs. Edge
_Raw • October 2, 2006_


Anyone seen those two?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Neither of those matches ring a bell.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Austin/Rock from Rebellion was alright, but nothing special. Can't remember Cena/Edge Cage Match, must give it a watch


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> Build someone like Cesaro up and make a fucking star by beating Cena.


This needs to happen. I'd love for Cesaro to be the next guy, but I'd expect it to be Ryback, though I can't stand him.

I'll tell you this, Cena isn't losing clean to anyone anytime soon, but when he finally does, then we'll know that he's starting to move out as the top guy. 

I want to see Triple H do a job for someone that needs the rub. He's one of my all time favorites, and I'd love to see someone go over him at a big show like Mania or Summerslam. I also want him to be the heel authority figure that Vince was. The promo that he cut with HBK before he accepted the Taker match at Mania 28 was brilliant. IT'S ALL GONNA BE MINE!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Appreciate the Edge match reviews AlienBountyHunter. Where are you watching these matches from? YouTube/Dailymotion I imagine?


Thanks man. And yeah, Dailymotion. (Y)



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Man this 25 Greatest Rivalries DVD is shaping up to be something great. Listing reveal #3:
> 
> *RIVALRIES*
> John Cena vs. Edge
> ...


Wow, that DVD is turning into something great. I've seen that Rebellion match and it's nowhere near as good as the their normal stuff, but still very watchable. Surprised it's on there tbh. I can't remember the Cena/Edge match but since I'm running through some Edge matches at the moment I might give it a watch.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Summerslam 2013, Daniel Bryan beats John Cena and he is the new WWE Champion. I think that it might be Bryan who would defeat Cena clean this year. From what I have seen they prepare Cesaro for a WHC run, not for a WWE one


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Daniel Bryan sadly will not become WWE champion


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjnhx_steve-austin-vs-hbk-kotr-97_sport

*'Stone Cold' Steve Austin - HBK (KOTR 1997)*

Always :lol at the finishing stretch to this match, esp at the replacement ref nearly fucking up sliding in the ring :


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

@Jack Evans 187, I've seen that Edge/Cena cage match, it's on my cage match DVD I have. One of the better Edge/Cena matches in my opinion, worth checking out.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Thanks man. And yeah, Dailymotion. (Y)


Don't check out Dailymotion much, but I guess it's more consistent for matches with WWE taking down so much stuff on YouTube?

Btw, about to watch Edge/Kurt Steel cage match you recommended me to check out.



Srdjan99 said:


> *Summerslam 2013, Daniel Bryan beats John Cena and he is the new WWE Champion. I think that it might be Bryan who would defeat Cena clean this year.* From what I have seen they prepare Cesaro for a WHC run, not for a WWE one


:lmao Not going to happen.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

^^HBK/Austin gets a **** from me


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Building up a star, and having them finally beat somebody at a big PPV for the title. That *used* to be the company formula for making new stars.
> 
> Take Steve Austin, for example. They took him and built him up with having that WM13 match with Bret. They had him in the upper midcard-main event all 1997, to a year later at WM14, beat the World Champion (HBK). Simple enough formula, but kind of blocked because apparently no one else is allowed to be a star along with King Cena. :lol
> 
> But it's still a simple formula and very effective. A shame it rarely, if ever, gets used anymore in WWE.


Once upon a time, my friend.

There's also the fact that the timing of these pushes is fucked up too. Sheamus got put over clean by Cena in December 2009, like 6 months after getting on the main roster. 2 WWE title reigns and he was pushed so quickly, and then what? He plummeted back down to the midcard for a year. Same with Miz and he's STILL there. The guy main evented a WM, even.

Contrast that to Austin who started his push to the top in June 1996 with his KOTR win, had that big Survivor Series match with Bret, then won the 1997 Rumble, and all that built up to his match with Bret at WM13, and challenging for the IC title against Owen by the summer, and then he won the 1998 Rumble and went on the beat Shawn at WM14. I mean, by the time he won his first title he'd been in that star making position for almost 2 years (technically, 21 months). Almost 2 years of being built up for the main event spot and getting over with the crowd. Compared to Sheamus' 6 whole months and his title win came out of nowhere, plus unlike Austin was known prior to that, Sheamus when he came in was a total nobody, and 6 months later carried the top belt. Talk about a mega push WAY too soon WAY too fast.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Don't check out Dailymotion much, but I guess it's more consistent for matches with WWE taking down so much stuff on YouTube?
> 
> Btw, about to watch Edge/Kurt Steel cage match you recommended me to check out.


Yeah, Dailymotion is much better than YouTube for WWE. They took down a lot of stuff but there's tons of great, hidden TV matches on DM that aren't on any sets.

Ah, good. Excellent match. I think I'm going to watch that Cena/Edge cage match from Raw if I can find it too.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Is the cage match between Edge and Angle the one where Angle escapes but referee misses and then Hogan comes and throws Angle back inside the cage?

I also remember another cage match in the same year involving Edge and Y2J. The post-match was awesome. Rey's dive from on top of the cage :mark:


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Bring up the Crowbar on a Pole match or Vampiro vs Oklahoma. Can't forget about the Varsity Club's fumble of a sub 5 minute match. Or even Madusa winning the WCW Crusierweight Championship. What a glorious event. Tip of the iceberg was referenced only. That's the fun part.


Until you reminded me I'd forgotten the Madusa vs Evan Karagias was on the card...that was something else. Calling it a match is being generous.

Ugh and that Crowbar on a Pole match...the crowbar played zero role in the finish. In fact, David Flair going to get it is what distracted him long enough for DDP to recover and give him the Diamond Cutter.

I honestly have to compare that and Uncensored 2000 and wonder which was worse. They're both hilariously bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Ladies and gentlemen, behold Part 1 of my Top 200 GOAT WWE/F matches:
*


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just finished watching Edge vs Kurt Angle - Steel Cage match - Smackdown May 30th 2002.

Damn this was a good match. And we got it free on TV! This is the rubber match between the two and it's fitting that this match took place in a cage because the rivalry was heated at this point with Angle wanting revenge on Edge for shaving his head bald at Judgment Day. Angle wears a ridiculous looking wig in this match to cover his newly shaved bald head. :lol And I have comment on this, Edge looked in his best shape of his career here. Anyway onto the match, it's started with a heated staredown between the two, they lock up, grapple, perform some amateur wrestling in the first few minutes, but it quickly gets aggressive and they make use of the cage surrounding them to fuel their rivalry, Angle takes control of the match when Edge attempts a spear on Angle when he's stuck between the ropes and cage. The control doesn't last long as Edge reverses an irish whip and delivers a release belly to belly suplex, something Angle's known for. I've noticed in their feud they'll pull out each other moves from time to time, even their finishers, in their Judgement Day match Angle does a Spear, and it this match Edge does Angle's Angle Lock and Angle Slam. Angle getting more frustrated in the match, repeatedly rams Edge's head into the steel cage, opening him up, and hammering Edge with right hands to further highlight that wound. You would think Angle would gain predominant control of the match here, but the match stays very back and forth with Edge with that never say die attitude about him. There's a ref bump, and Edge tries to climb out of the cage but Angle delivers a Angle Slam off the top rope which takes Edge out of the match completely. At this point, Angle tries to escape and actually escapes the cage, but the ref is down so Angle can't be declared the winner, then Hulk Hogan ambushes Kurt Angle apparently getting revenge on Angle from attacking him before, and rams his head repeatedly into the outside of the cage before throwing him back into the cage and the match resumes. And then Hogan remains at ringside to cheer on Edge in the match. There's a nice finish sequence in this part of the match where desperately try to put each other way, even performing each other's finishers to try and get the win, but to no avail. Then Angle tries to escape the Cage, Edge stops him, brings him back into the ring, they fight on the top rope, Edge knocks Angle off the rope and delivers a spear of the top rope for the win. I really enjoyed this match, I think I'd go ****** on it. 

Link to the match if anyone else wants to watch it: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/edge+vs+kurt+angle+steel+cage/1#video=x6rlxj



Oliver-94 said:


> Is the cage match between Edge and Angle the one where Angle escapes but referee misses and then Hogan comes and throws Angle back inside the cage?


Yes.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Good review, man. Glad you liked that match, it's always one that doesn't seem to get talked about much. And gotta love Angle's wig haha. And I think the whole Hogan/Angle bit led to a match between them at King Of The Ring a few weeks after.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks. It probably doesn't get talked about enough because it's a TV match and thus not as seen as much as PPV's matches. TV matches can sometimes produce the best matches in feuds. Watching Edge and Hogan vs Billy and Chuck for the WWE Tag Team Titles currently.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, agreed. Lol Billy and Chuck, I remember them.

I'm going to watch that Edge/Cena steel cage match from 2006 now, so I'll put up another review after. Expecting a good match. (Y)


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm watching RAW 1997 and absolutely loving it.

I'm no big HBK mark or anything, but I'm laughing my ass off at him basically being an utter cocky prick in the summer of 1997 on RAW, especially on the shows where they're in Canada. 

I'm up to the July 21st show that took place in Nova Scotia, and when HBK comes out for an in-ring interview it's just raining boos and jeers. I mean, the crowd legit HATES him and he just eats it up.

You can tell he's at his most comfortable when he is hated and gets to be a little shit to everyone. Hilarious.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge and Hulk Hogan vs Billy and Chuck - Smackdown July 4th 2002 - WWE Tag Team Championship match - ***1/2*

No classic here, but it's a feel good match with Edge winning the Tag Team Titles with the wrestler he idolized growing up. Edge and Hogan show good chemistry in the first part of the match, performing double team manevers and catching the experienced tag team of Billy and Chuck off guard. Billy and Chuck gain control when Edge is legal man, and they isolate Edge for most of the match using the typical tag team match formula for heels. It makes sense for Edge to be in the ring for most of the match here with how old Hogan was at this point. There's a few teases of a Edge comeback, especially when Rico, Billy and Chuck's manager, hits Billy with a superkick accidently when he was aiming for Edge, but Billy and Chuck continue to isolate him. Eventually Edge gets the hot tag to Hogan and Hogan does his traditional fire up and signature moves, Billy and Chuck gain back control shortly forcing Hogan to tag back to Edge, a rejuvenated Edge fires of the top rope with a double clothesline, Hogan takes care of Rico on the outside for his repeated interference, then there's a teased ending when Edge does a spear to Billy, but Chuck pulls Edge's leg to break up the count, and then Hogan gets back in the ring, Edge and Hogan do a double big boot to Chuck followed up by a double leg drop for the win. Crowd goes crazy. A good feel good moment.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*WWE Championship: John Cena (c) vs Edge: Raw 2nd October 2006*

Cena comes out with a taped left arm and Edge targets it at first very briefly but the opening exchanges are pretty standard. Edge goes for a couple of early escapes but Cena thwarts him. Cena's selling of his arm injury is hit and miss throughout the match. Sometimes he sells it well (although it's not the focus of the match as it was when Edge faced Benoit in the match I reviewed earlier) but sometimes he forgets about it briefly and it takes away from the match a little.

This match didn't have much of a 'feeling out' period as both guys just jump into it, and only a few minutes in they're already being thrown into the cage and there's a nice bulldog off the top rope by Cena. There's a few more good spots such as Edge's suplex off the middle rope and an excellent counter exchange between the two in the corner.

Cena starts to come back but Edge counters the FU and tries to escape the cage. Lita sneaks a chair into the ring before being thrown to the back. Cena gives Edge a nasty chair shot - the kind Vince would cringe at nowadays, and has Edge passed out in the STF, but the ref was knocked down a minute earlier. Then, Lance Cade and Trevor Murdoch (remember them?) come down at take out Cena, before dragging Edge's body towards the cage door. DX come out and thwart them, with HBK hitting Sweet Chin Music on Murdoch, who falls into the cage door hitting Edge in the face, who walks into an FU by Cena for the 1-2-3.

Pretty decent match. The crowd was electric throughout and really added to it. The opening was your basic cage match stuff, and the spots were good but nothing spectacular. The ending with all the interferences gave it a big PPV main event feel, though it would have been nice to have a little longer between just Cena and Edge in the ring and Cena's selling of the arm injury could have been a tad better.

****1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tat rivalries set is looking shit. Cena/Edge on it? Their matches sucked. Rock/Austin Rebellion? Terrible match, which isn't like them because they actually had good chemistry. So far every match worth owning I've got aside from Lesnar/Angle. Some shitty fucking feuds on their too. No doubt will end up being a shite set.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge/Cena was one my most favorite feuds. It's one of Cena's most defining of his career, Cena himself called Edge his best rival. Sure some of the matches aren't the best, but they had some matches that I was fond of like their TLC match, but match enjoyment is all subjective anyway. I could get into any of one of their matches just because I enjoyed the feud so much at the time. Their feud was the best thing in 2006 WWE for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

admiremyclone said:


> I'm watching RAW 1997 and absolutely loving it.
> 
> I'm no big HBK mark or anything, but I'm laughing my ass off at him basically being an utter cocky prick in the summer of 1997 on RAW, especially on the shows where they're in Canada.
> 
> ...


Agreed. 97 HBK might be my favorite character ever.


----------



## Rusty Shackleford (Aug 9, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Edge/Cena was one my most favorite feuds. It's one of Cena's most defining of his career, Cena himself called Edge his best rival. Sure some of the matches aren't the best, but they had some matches that I was fond of like their TLC match, but match enjoyment is all subjective anyway. I could get into any of one of their matches just because I enjoyed the feud so much at the time. Their feud was the best thing in 2006 WWE for me.


I have to agree. I feel that their steel cage match on Raw after Unforgiven is underrated. After not watching wrestling for three years(02-05), their feud really kept me watching and that was the one time where I really enjoyed Cena's work year round.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Queen Akasha said:


> I have to agree. I feel that their steel cage match on Raw after Unforgiven is underrated. After not watching wrestling for three years(02-05), their feud really kept me watching and that was the one time where I really enjoyed Cena's work year round.


Yeah, that's the one I just reviewed a page back. Solid match and I agree that their feud was one of the high points of 2006.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hated their feud. And of course it lasted forever too. Urgh.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Edge slapping Johnny boy's dad in the face (Y)


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Since someone mentioned it on the last page, I'd like to say that the Edge/Kurt Angle feud was a lot better than Edge vs. Cena. 

Both still had a lot of entertaining moments and matches.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Edge slapping Johnny boy's dad in the face (Y)


:lol






More great moments from their feud:














A good little tribute to their feud:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*WWF Tag Team Championship: Edge & Christian w/ Rhyno (c) vs Undertaker & Kane - Smackdown April 19th 2001 (No DQ)*

Still running through a lot of Edge matches and hadn't seen this one in years so here we go.

Edge, Christian and Rhyno ambush the brothers early before Kane takes control. Kane (with a bandaged arm. What is it about Edge's opponents having injured arms?) in complete control until Rhyno hits him with the Gore. For some reason Edge doesn't go for the cover but starts working away on the injured arm. He and Christian exchange tags and keep Kane grounded using the standard heel tactics. Kane, looking in great shape, sells the injury well enough and just takes the standard arm bars etc. He then shows great strength to hoist Christian arm mid-hammer lock and slams him down and makes the tag to Taker. Edge had distracted the ref though so it wasn't legal. Always loved that tactic.

More standard tag heel work on Kane before he finally mounts some offense and tags in Taker. He cleans house and is about to chokeslam Christian before Rhyno hits him with the chair. It was no DQ so Rhyno could basically have been involved in the whole match instead of just waiting on the outside, but whatever. Kane takes Rhyno to the outside and Chokeslams him nastily on the steel ramp, before HHH and Austin arrive and beat down Kane on the outside. E & C want to go for the con-chair-to, but Taker ducks, removes Edge and Last Ride's Christian for the win. Austin and HHH beat him down after until Kane cleans house.

Pretty standard match, nothing particularly special but some good heel work by E & C. I loved this feud between Power Trip and BOD at the time and it's got real intensity behind it still. The crowd was great for the whole match and I can almost guarantee they'll never be a crowd like that for a Tag Team title match again. Edge and Christian always fun to watch together and they held up against Kane and taker really well.

***3/4*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

What do you guys think of the IC title DVD? The newer one. I'm looking at it but I haven't seen most of it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

To whoever recommended Undertaker/Austin JD 2001:

Thank you. Just watched this match for the first time since I was eight years old when it aired live. At that age, any Undertaker match was a five star bout in my eyes :. I love how well Austin seamlessly mixed a brawling and technical skill set during his heel run. I could not take my eyes off of the screen at any moment of the match. Finishing stretch kicked so much ass. Only criticism I have for this is that Undertaker looked like he forgot to sell his leg after Austin worked it in the middle of the match. ******

How good was the Backlash 2001 main event? I barely remember a thing from it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Backlash main event is a great tag match, totally worth watching again.

Good little review on the JD 01 main event. I really love that match. Austin was on fire in the ring that year. So many great performances by him.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> The Backlash main event is a great tag match, totally worth watching again.


And only the second time in WWF history that all 3 major titles-WWF, IC and Tag Team-were on the line in the same match. The first being IYH 3.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Edge rivalry...ehhhhh.

Ok stuff in '06. Cage match could be their best match judging by the reviews. Rest of it comes and goes. Most of 2006 didn't capture my attention unless it was involving moments from Smackdown, Big Show or the debuting CM Punk. I was such a TNA guy that year. In full force. 

Perhaps I'm underrating WWE that year. Probably not.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

People should give Taker credit for getting Cena his first ****+ match at Vengeance 2003, Also which Angle/Cena match on PPV do you think was the best?

Cena/Angle - No Mercy 2003
Cena/Angle - No Way Out 2005 
Cena/Angle - Unforgiven 2005
Cena/Angle - Survivor Series 2005


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Angle No Mercy 03 in a landslide.

Rest aren't too special. No Way Out 2005 for example is dull.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah, Cena vs Angle at No Mercy 2003 is easily their best encounter with each other. The build-up to the match was also greatly done. It provided us with very entertaining segments like this,






It was a really great feud. On par with Cena/Taker leading to their Vengeance 2003 match-up. Their other matches I recall weren't so good. I expected a lot more from their other matches to be honest.



admiremyclone said:


> I'm watching RAW 1997 and absolutely loving it.
> 
> I'm no big HBK mark or anything, but I'm laughing my ass off at him basically being an utter cocky prick in the summer of 1997 on RAW, especially on the shows where they're in Canada.
> 
> ...


Shawn Michaels' heel run in 1997 was tremendous. His promos were always entertaining as hell. This promo had me laughing my ass off:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

John-boy in those Oakland colors. Looks good.

Angle wearing a Mark Brunell jersey :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

watched spring stampede 2000. actually enjoyed it. few funny bits too. 

jarrett never drew a dime tho


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Angle - No Mercy 2003 *****1/4*
Cena/Angle - No Way Out 2005 ****1/2*
Cena/Angle - Unforgiven 2005 *****
Cena/Angle - Survivor Series 2005 ***3/4*

The Cena/Angle feud in 2003 was spectacular. Gotta love Heyman's Smackdown which gave us some of the best non-title feuds in WWE history. I enjoyed the NWO 2005 matchup, but there were some slow, plodding points in that match. The late-2005 Cena/Angle feud is the perfect example of a feud that did not help anyone involved. That feud should have never happened.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

1999 Rejex said:


> Shawn Michaels' heel run in 1997 was tremendous. His promos were always entertaining as hell. This promo had me laughing my ass off:


Heh, wonderfully entertaining promo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah the tournament show actually wasn't all that bad. I always have fun with the show. MOTN was certainly Funk vs Smiley.

Jarrett never did. Made a comment on his main event push in the WCW thread. Felt so forced and random. Pushed him with no reason to do so. Fans didn't care to see him in a major capacity at the time. I guess they tried to go with someone different. Had to really when they noticed all of their top prospects left for WWF. DDP should have gotten the championship. That's from both a mark & business perspective. He wasn't "young" but he was fresh enough to earn himself another decent length run with the gold.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DDP fucking rules. Should've been the real face of the company.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:ddp

We'll always have '97 - '99 where he was on fire.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

That's true. Then Vince ruined him.  

fuck you vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least he won at WrestleMania.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Well it took me about a month, but I finally got through watching every single Wrestlemania. All 28 events are now in my recent memory and my feelings & opinions towards them are fresh. 

So I am going to give a one paragraph summary of what I think of each show: 

*WRESTLEMANIA (1985)*

It doesn't fit the modern mold of Wrestlemania as we know it today. Now it is meant to be the culmination of several long build storylines & ultimate payoffs while also mixing elements of the entertainment world into the mix. Back then, it was simple a standard MSG card with celebrities that almost served as an infomercial for the product to hopefully bring in new audiences and see if they could hold them. To that end, they certainly succeeded. It is a fun show and there are some neat moments in hear like Bruno Sammartino's involvement, Andre slamming Studd, Cyndi Lauper in the Women's Title match, and the star studded tag team main event. The larger than life spectacle of Wrestlemania hadn't quite been fully realized yet, but in of itself, it is still a fun show to watch and it is amazing how basic & simple it is compared to what we are used to today. 

*WRESTLEMANIA 2 (1986)*

More of less the same as Wrestlemania 1. In many ways it is just a standard card with celebrities mixed in. Unfortunately, the celebrities were more of a mixed bag this time with Elvira & Susan St. James being downright awful, though William Perry was a blast. I really liked the idea of holding the event in three separate venues and that was probably the first really ambitious move they ever tried since coming up with the idea for Wrestlemania. Part of me wishes they'd try something like that again. Parts of it are fun like some of the tag team matches, the IC Title match, the boxing match, the WWF/NFL battle royal, and I even liked the main event. There is a lot of stuff in between though that is just dead weight. It isn't a fantastic show, but again, the format we all recognize for Wrestlemania hadn't quite been fully realized yet, so for still being in the experimental phase, it still has its fun moments and a good atmosphere. 

*WRESTLEMANIA III (1987)*

Wrestlemania may have been born in 1985, but it came to life in 1987. This is where the format for the modern Wrestlemania started. This became the blueprint on how to build a huge mega event like Wrestlemania. The large venue, the spectacle, and all the great feuds heading into this one all made it feel magical. To me, this was the launchpad for making Wrestlemania legendary and it stems from two legendary matches that changed the business forever: Randy Savage Vs. Ricky Steamboat for the IC Title and Hulk Hogan Vs. Andre the Giant for the WWF Championship in probably the biggest main event of all time. The undercard provides a lot of fun action and memorable moments as well like Piper's farewell, Alice Cooper's involvement, and some cool grudge matches. In front of that crowd in that venue, the WWF caught lightning in a bottle and set the bar for Wrestlemanias that were yet to come. 

*WRESTLEMANIA IV (1988)*

This one was known for the Championship Tournament to crown a new WWF Champion after the title had been vacated thanks to the controversial finish to the Hogan/Andre rematch on the main event. It was a great set up with Hogan, Andre, DiBiase, & The Macho Man all being the major players. The execution though left a lot to be desired. There were so many opportunities to create big matches in the tournament (How Savage/Steamboat II didn't happen, I'll never understand) and parts of it are more convoluted and messed up than I remembered. It is kind of a mess. However, the saving grace is still the ending. When Savage defeated DiBiase to win the title, I can truthfully say that it is one of the most satisfying conclusions to any Wrestlemania. It was a worthwhile happy ending, but getting there was a bumpy road to say the least. 

*WRESTLEMANIA V (1989)*

This one is a lot of fun. I have a lot of fond memories of this event because it was the first Wrestlemania I ever watched on tape and actually, its main event of Randy Savage Vs. Hulk Hogan for the title was the first wrestling match I ever saw. This is a really fun one to look back on with all the characters they had at the time like Ultimate Warrior, Rick Rude, Demolition, Mr. Perfect, and even young versions of Bret Hart & Shawn Micheals. It serves as a great time capsule event if nothing else, and the Hogan/Savage main event from its build up to the match itself still delivers big time for me today. I think it is a definite gem and probably the definitive WWF Main Event of the 80s. 

*WRESTLEMANIA VI (1990)*

This was a big one. It was the first international Wrestlemania as it was held in Toronto's Sky Dome and was the largest crowd for a Wrestlemania since III. Unfortunately, I feel like it is kind of a one match show. It really is all about the main event in this one as Hogan Vs. Warrior still lives on to this day as one of my personal favorites. That was an awesome match and I find myself full of energy even watching it in 2013. The undercard isn't completely worthless. Jake Vs. DiBiase was really good, and I liked the Tag Title match, and the mixed tag match was fun too, but overall, it wasn't as well put together as III or V which were the two best up to this point. It is pretty much all about the main event with this one. 

*WRESTLEMANIA VII (1991)*

I love this one. It is one of my personal favorite complete shows without question. There were great matches, heated feuds, big names, and wonderful payoffs all throughout the event. It also has some great historical significance as well. It was the last time The Rockers, The Hart Foundation, & Demolition were used at Wrestlemania, signaling sort of the end of the glory days for the tag team division. It was also the Wrestlemania debut of The Legion of Doom and of course, The Undertaker, whose legendary streak began at this event. But the feuds here were fantastic like Jake Vs. Martel in the Blindfold match, DiBiase Vs. Virgil, Bossman Vs. Perfect, and of course Ultimate Warrior Vs. Randy Savage in a Career Ending match, which is easily one of the most dramatic matches I have ever watched. That one in my mind is worthy of a Top Ten spot on any "Best Matches in Wrestlemania History" list and it was capped off with the emotional reunion of Randy & Elizabeth. It was pure gold. The main event of Hogan Vs. Slaughter was enjoyable for what it was despite the feud being a bit...out there, so say the least, ha ha. Overall, I love this one and even comparing it to the events of today, it measures up as one of my favorites. I love it. 

*WRESTLEMANIA VIII (1992)*

This was the first Wrestlemania I ever saw live on PPV. I was so excited for the event that day. Rewatching it again, the parts that were great are still great, but the problems I recognized even back then are still evident. First of all, Ric Flair Vs. Randy Savage for the WWF Title & Roddy Piper Vs. Bret Hart for the IC Title are easily two of my favorite Wrestlemania matches ever. Those matches are wild, chaotic, well wrestled, and full of passion. They are pure gems. Unfortunately, it felt like the show peaked half way through once the Flair/Savage match was done and the main event they went with, Hogan Vs. Sid, wasn't enough to match it. Had it not been for the awesome return of The Ultimate Warrior, that main event would probably be remembered with more negativity because it isn't a very strong one. Despite its flaws though, I still like this one, but it could have done with a little restructuring of the card. 

*WRESTLEMANIA IX (1993) *

Oh the often maligned Wrestlemania IX. Personally, aside from its ending, I really don't think it is that bad. The main event is complete & utter abuse of power on Hogan's part and it was about as transparent as clean glass, but I feel the hatred stems largely from that. Everything else? Well I liked the pageantry and the setting. Yeah it was silly to have everyone in togas, but given the venue of Ceasar's Palace, I bought it. At least I could see the method to the madness anyway. Other matches like Shawn Vs. Tatanka for the IC Title, the Headshrinkers Vs. The Steiner Brothers, Hogan & Beefcake Vs. Money Inc for the Tag Titles, & Luger Vs. Perfect were all pretty solid I thought, and I even enjoyed Taker Vs. Gonzalez. I don't care what anybody says, ha ha. I am not trying to say that it is one of the best Manias ever. It isn't. Far from it actually. I am just saying that I don't think it is unquestionably the worst like a lot of other people say. The two truly worthy of that designation are coming soon. 

*WRESTLEMANIA X (1994)*

Well I can't hate on this one too much because it did fall on my 9th birthday. And actually, it was a pretty good birthday present. I got to see a fantastic wrestling match between Bret Hart & Owen Hart, one of my favorite matches ever. I got to see the Ladder Match between Razor Ramon & Shawn Michaels which changed the business forever and still is one of my favorites. And my favorite Wrestler at the time, Bret Hart, got to win the title and got a hero's celebration to close out the show. That is all very cool and very good. As a complete show though, it is lacking in areas of the undercard. There is some dead weight there and a lot of it does expose how limited their roster was at the time. There is some OK stuff here and there, but it is really about the two awesome matches and the ending. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XI (1995)*

OK, THIS is the worst Wrestlemania of all time. Upon repeated viewing, I have to say that it might be even worse than I remember it. I had trouble getting through it again. The show is just lifeless and dead, and the constant audio problems throughout the event are wildly distracting. The Undertaker, Bret Hart, & Shawn Michaels were all involved in lackluster matches, the only Wrestlemania I can think of where I can make that statement. And LT Vs. Bam Bam, while an interesting and fun idea, sank like a rock as LT clearly didn't belong in there. The best matches were OK at best (Razor/Jarrett, Diesel/Shawn, & the Tag Title match) and everything else was horrendous. It is still remarkably bad to this day and once again, I forgot how horrible Diesel was as babyface champion. That shined through like no other while watching this again. One thing I will praise the show for: Pamela Anderson & Jenny McCarthy were smoking hot back then, am I right? 

*WRESTLEMANIA XII (1996)*

This one still suffered from some of the problems that the post Hogan Wrestlemanias suffered from. There is very little atmosphere, the roster was thin, the shows don't feel special, & there isn't much pageantry. Where they made up for it was in its main event. Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels in a 60 Minute Iron Man Match is a wrestling clinic I actually found myself enjoying it more on this viewing than I had in the past. It really is a well crafted athletic display. The show is basically all about them as that match pretty much took up half the event. It also has Taker Vs. Diesel and Piper Vs. Goldust on the undercard which were pretty entertaining in their own right. Also, while their debuts were lackluster, seeing Triple H & "Stone Cold" Steve Austin make their Mania debuts is still interesting to watch. Watching them here, I am very surprised that they ultimately rose to the level they did. 

*WRESTLEMANIA 13 (1997)*

This is another horrible one. Like XI, it might also be even worse on this viewing than I remembered it to be. It has one stand out saving grace and that is the awesome submission match between Bret Hart & Steve Austin which I swear gets better and better each time I view. It is a pro wrestling masterpiece for sure. Remove that from the equation and you have nothing short of a dead show. It is perfectly exemplified in its rushed and dull main event between Sid & Undertaker, and is certainly present in pretty much the entire undercard as well. Fortunately, the Attitude Era was on the rise and this was the end of the dark ages for the company. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XIV (1998)*

Yup. This one is still one of the best. Watching these Wrestlemanias in a row really highlighted how important this show was. After some not so kind years following Hogan's departure, this event brought the magic back in full force. Wrestlemania was back to being a larger than life event with great grudge matches, high energy, and a larger than life appeal, and all of it with a new attitude. The rebellious spirit of this show is still quite resonating today. For example, I forgot how over Sable was back then. I mean wow! You don't hear girls today get even half that reaction. The Rock & Triple H were both on the rise and after failing to impress in their early Wrestlemanias, they were clearly breaking through as strong personalities here. Undertaker Vs. Kane is one of the best grudge matches in the entire history of the event and I felt they stole the show. It is amazing to watch, especially when you compare how Kane is now to what he was back then. The main event is right up there with the biggest of all time as Michaels & Austin with Mike Tyson as Guest Enforcer was nothing short of perfect execution. Austin's huge title win was a nice capstone to a near perfect show and gives this even the resonance & importance it deserves. This show perfectly captured everything that was great about the Attitude Era. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XV (1999)*

Now this one captures everything that was bad about the Attitude Era. It almost feels like the feeling behind this show was "screw it, we're on top of the world right now, so they are going to tune in no matter what". There were bad matches, pointless matches, rushed matches, and alot of it just amounted to nothing. This show also includes what I feel is the worst match of Undertaker's career, his Hell in a Cell Match with Big Bossman. That match hurt his legacy, Wrestlemania's legacy, and the legacy of Hell in a Cell too. It is that bad. The only real saving graces of the event are the European Title match between X-Pac and Shane which was a great clash of character & a nice vehicle for a Triple H heel turn. Also, the main event is pretty sweet and was clearly the result of months and months of planning. Austin & Rock went out there and had a pretty exciting match that would serve as only a preview of what was to come. As for this whole show, I'd say skip it. Truthfully, there were episodes of Raw at the time that were far better. 

*WRESTLEMANIA 2000 (2000)*

How on Earth did the Attitude Era shell out two bad Wrestlemanias in a row? This one suffered from the sheer problem of being over bloated. The Hardcore Battle Royal in particular was even more of a mess than I remembered it and most of the unnecessary tag matches fell flat, Kat Vs. Terri being the only singles match is downright laughable really. The Tag Team Title Triangle Ladder Match is still amazing though and is a wild spectacle, and I still enjoy the Two Fall Triple Threat match for the Euro & IC Titles. I have to say that the four way main event was a better match than I remembered it being, but then I got a quick reminder as to why I always looked down on it: The ending. The ending is still among Mania's all time worst and it really set a bad tone for the whole show. But once again, the WWF was red hot at the time, so it didn't matter what they did. 

*WRESTLEMANIA X-SEVEN (2001)*

I view this one as being the end of the Attitude Era, and what an ending it is. This show is still exciting to this day and has so many good parts about it, I'm not even sure where to begin. Is it unquestionably the best Mania like a lot of people say? Meh, I don't know if I'd go that far as parts of it are a little overrated, but there isn't anything truly awful either. Everything serves a purpose and most of it is a lot of fun from the undercard title matches, to the Gimmick Battle Royal, to Vince & Shane, to TLC, to Taker & Triple H. That last match in particular was better than I remembered it and I think I like it more than their XXVII encounter ten years later (more on that in a bit). And I have to say, Rock Vs. Austin in the main event is still awesome and is still one of Mania's finest main events bar none. It is truly exciting to watch these two at their best clash on the grand stage. Now the ending is still infuriating since I still remember where they ended up going with the Austin heel turn, and I think it sucked. But it is only bad in hindsight. At the time, it was legit shocking and there wasn't intrigue in seeing where they would go with it. Overall, a great Wrestlemania, and I still view it as one of the best. 

*WRESTLEMANIA X-8 (2002)*

I used to think of this one as just a one match show. Hulk Hogan Vs. The Rock is one of my all time favorite Wrestlemania matches and one of the best experiences I have had as a fan. It was just a one of a kind, emotionally charged, historic one on one match. I still found myself marking out during parts of that match. Is it the lone good match? No. I like the DDP/Christian match, RVD Vs. Regal, & Taker Vs. Flair was easily second best. Those were all good. Alot of stuff still falls flat though like Austin basically squashing The Outsiders, the borefest Four Way Tag Title match, and that lifeless main event between Triple H & Chris Jericho where Stephanie was more the star than the champion was. Those problems are all still there. Overall the personality of this Wrestlemania is that the Attitude Era was over and they didn't know where to go. Hogan Vs. Rock is still the greatest reason to give this one a look, but there are some other gems on there as well that keep it from being just a one match show. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XIX (2003)*

Getting this out of the way now: I have watched Angle Vs. Lesnar four times, FOUR FREAKIN' TIMES, and I still don't see what the big deal was. I think I guess less and less impressed with it upon every viewing. That match is massively overrated. XIX as a whole though? Still freakin' awesome. The big show atmosphere was there, the venue was wonderful (probably the best looking Mania to date), and so many big matches delivered in huge ways that I still found myself excited while watching it. Even with the overrated main event, I still think of this one as one of my favorites. Michaels Vs. Jericho, Austin/Rock III, & even Hogan/McMahon are the lifeblood of the event in my eyes. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XX (2004)*

This one is so spooky to watch now considering its ending. I haven't watched any of this event since the now infamous Chris Benoit Tribute Show in 2007. Because of my feelings towards Benoit's actions and the sadness of what happened to Nancy & Daniel, I had a hard time making myself sit through this one again. Now all of that said, this Wrestlemania was still enjoyable. There is a lot of dead weight and the bad stuff like Goldberg/Lesnar & the disappointing CW Open are still bad, but the good stuff is still really good. Eddie/Angle, Evolution/Rock & Sock, Taker's Entrance (match, not so much), Christian/Jericho. All good. The main event? Well, its still the best Triple Threat match I've ever seen. It is superb. Despite what I may think about Chris Benoit the man, the performer went out there with Shawn Michaels & Triple H and put on one of Mania's finest closers. 

*WRESTLEMANIA 21 (2005)*

This one is really good, but is also maddening at the same time. It was SOOOOOOO CLOSE to being one of the best. I loved the "Wrestlemania Goes Hollywood" theme and the parody trailers were actually kind of funny and hold up pretty well. Eddie/Rey? Good opener. It introduced Money in the Bank to Wrestlemania and what a grand intro it was. Taker Vs. Orton is still one of Taker's finest & most dramatic Mania outings in my eyes. The Hogan/Hassan segment was a lot of fun, and Angle Vs. Michaels is still the great clash of styles I remembered. They had crafted one of the best Mania's ever....and then Piper's Pit with Stone Cold came up and it was boring. Then the Sumo Match happened and it was awful, but OK, those are just filler segments. What about the two title matches? They were booked all wrong. I am not saying they needed to be fantastic matches, but they should have been booked right. JBL Vs. Cena is probably the single most anticlimactic match I have ever seen in my life. You couldn't make a more lackluster title change if you tried. And Batista/HHH was actually quite good int he closing minutes and was indicative of what the match should have been with Batista overpowering and dominating Triple H and The Game having no answer to his strength. However, that ending came after having to watch Batista sell for 15 minutes, which he wasn't very good at to be truthful. Fix the two title matches, and you've got one of the best Manias ever, but as it stands, it is still a pretty good show. 

*WRESTLEMANIA 22 (2006)*

I remember the build up for this one being awful, but I also remembered the show being able to overcome that and still be pretty good overall. I still feel that way, but parts of it were worse than I remember. The opening tag match is basically a squash for Kane & Big Show, and Taker Vs. Henry was pretty bad as well. However, Trish Vs. Mickie is still really good (though the DVD cuts out Mickie's V-Lick, which is stupid). The US Title match is solid too, and so is Money in the Bank. I still thank heavens that RVD won that one over Flair, an outcome I thought was certain at the time. Edge Vs. Foley stole the show and took a rehashed feud and turned it into a stand out Mania hardcore match the likes of which had never been seen before and until the PG era ends, will never be seen again. Shawn Vs. Vince is still a lot of fun to watch as well. The 3 Way for the World Title was solid, though I never realized how they booked it so that Angle kind of got screwed out of the belt as he won the match twice but referee distractions kept him from being declared the winner. Kind of taints Rey's victory a bit. Now that brings me to Cena Vs. HHH in the main event, a match I have hated since I first saw it. People tell me it is good, so I tried to go into it thinking "Maybe it won't be as bad as I remember". Yeah...IT WAS WORSE!!! Cena looked awful in the match and I once again found myself bored out of my skull while watching it. I felt like I was turning into the Nostalgic Critic with my cursing and my sarcastic comments. So yeah, still hate it. It is still a solid Mania overall though, and it achieved it while fighting up hill thanks to a weak build, so I'll give it some credit. 

*WRESTLEMANIA 23 (2007)*

This one kind of reminds me of VIII. The big matches, namely Batista Vs. Taker & Cena Vs. Michaels, are both really good Wrestlemania worthy title matches. Both still hold up pretty well to me and I enjoyed them. The rest of the card is kind of dead weight though. Money in the Bank was still good, but I think it was by far the weakest one. How many times did they have a guy run in there and hit his finisher 7 times? The Battle of the Billionaires was fun for what it was, so I'll give that the "OK" stamp. Everything else though was and still is utterly forgettable and I wish they had taken a bit more time to beef up the card a little bit with some stronger stuff. My idea was Edge Vs. Orton. Why senselessly put them in MITB when you could have the former partners feud? Oh well. Still a solid Mania thanks to its two big matches, but it is lacking in areas. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XXIV (2008)*

This one is most known for the Michaels Vs. Flair retirement match and I have to say that upon the repeat viewing that Ric Flair looked HORRIBLE in that match. Miscues, blown spots, he was slow, he looked gassed at points. He looked every bit his age and then some. That said, Shawn was able to carry him and the emotion was high enough to overlook most of that. It was a great emotional experience and I can live with that. This is often a heavily praised Mania, and I only thought it was good. Going over it again, there is nothing bad about it really. There are no glaring flaws. Edge Vs. Taker was a pretty good main event, I liked the three way again, & Money in the Bank was one of the better ones. I didn't love it though. It is a good one, and served as fun viewing again, and it is probably the best since 21, but it is not a major favorite. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XXV (2009)*

This is one that got bashed quite a bit, and while I won't say it is one of the worst, it does have some heavy flaws. I hated how they handled the Miss Wrestlemania Battle Royal. The Gimmick Battle Royal at X-Seven worked because of the entrances. Why didn't they do that here? I hated that the whole Jericho Vs. The Legends angle was done just so Mickey Rourke could be the hero. It seems like a lackluster end game. Where was Austin during that whole thing? Steamboat's performance though was pretty sweet to relive and was even better than I remembered. The Hardy Vs. Hardy match was pretty much just a spotfest, but still fun. Money in the Bank was fun as always too. And Taker Vs. Michaels is a classic. This is only the second time I've watched it and it held up very well on the repeat viewing. It is one of Mania's finest for sure. The two main events? Well the three way was centered around a terrible angle and while they tried to make it work, I still didn't care. I completely forgot that Cena blackmailed Vickie to get into the match. What a douchebag character!!! And yes, HHH Vs. Orton is still horrible. Surprise surprise. So yeah, this show has some major problems, but it isn't completely awful either. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XXVI (2010)*

It is actually appropriate that this is the 20th Anniversary of Wrestlemania Vi because I kind of felt the same way about both shows. It is all about the main event. Taker Vs. Shawn, Streak Vs. Career, was very good and a nice strong emotional ending to the show. Everything else? Eh. Take it or leave it. Nothing else truly stood out. Money in the Bank? Still good. Rey Vs. Punk? Short, but still good. Triple H Vs. Sheamus? Eh, that was OK. Bret Vs. Vince? Awful, one of Mania's worst. Edge Vs. Jericho? Unremarkable, OK at best. Cena Vs. Batista? A little sloppy at points, but still solid. The show just didn't feel like it kicked into high gear until the main event. That is good in a way since the last impressions were very positive, but the show as a whole was mostly, like I said, take it or leave it. I guess that isn't bad though. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XXVII (2011)*

This one managed to be worse than it was upon my first viewing. This one really should be renamed "Entertainia" because they tried to make this into a variety show, and they failed miserably. The backstage "comedy" segments were downright embarrassing, even when compared to some of WWE's worst. They bring in Rock to be "The Guest Host". Why does Wrestlemania need a guest host to begin with? Why are celebrities like Snooki being showcased on the show to no benefit to the people she's working with? Why is the World Heavyweight Championship opening up the show? Why are the IC & Tag Champs getting killed in two minutes? Why was the US Title match bumped off the show entirely? To make room for bad segments that nobody enjoyed. Money in the Bank not being on this show was actually a detriment. They should be able to do a Mania without it, but what they filled on this card instead didn't measure up at all. Michael Cole Vs. Jerry Lawler is still, without question in my mind, the Worst Match in Wrestlemania history. I also have to say that Cena Vs. Miz was way worse than I remembered it to be. I guess I wasn't paying attention the first time as I got bored just waiting for Rock to come out, but wow. Miscues galore for a bit in that one! CM Punk Vs. Randy Orton was a good match and Triple H Vs. Undertaker, while nowhere near the "One of the best matches ever' honors that it seems to get, is still entertaining. However, the overall experience with this show is a negative one. It was kind of a mess. 

*WRESTLEMANIA XXVIII (2012)*

Well bouncing back from last year, I will give this one credit for at least being an honest attempt at a wrestling show over whatever it was they tried the year before. That said, I kind of feel like it was largely a two match show. Taker Vs. HHH in Hell in a Cell is still great with plenty of brutal action. Rock Vs. Cena, while not the greatest match ever, is still a fun main event. Everything else though? I guess we'll file it under the "Take it or leave it" folder that I did for a lot of XXVI. The World Title match was even more degrading than the year before as not only did it get opening duties, but they reduced it to 18 seconds. They might as well have just plastered "Unimportant" right over the front of the belt. Kane/Orton, Show/Cody, The Divas, & Team Johnny Vs. Team Long were all, at best, forgettable. And I'm sorry, but Punk Vs. Jericho was disappointing to me. This is coming after two viewings and I don't think the match came off as well as it should have and was very dull in places. Oh well, you still got two worthwhile matches on this show and at least it wasn't painful like most of XXVII.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I like DDP alot, too. But boy did Taker demolish him.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, what the fuck happened with DDP? I know Taker buried him, but why? Was it simply that Vince or Taker or someone hated him? Did he fuck up? Or was it just the standard at that time that WCW guys were to be buried?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No doubt Hart vs Michaels from 12 is the worst WrestleMania main event out there. 60 minutes of crap trumps a poor Cena/Miz finale any day.

At least Hogan vs Andre had a payoff to their match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> Yeah, what the fuck happened with DDP? I know Taker buried him, but why? Was it simply that Vince or Taker or someone hated him? Did he fuck up? Or was it just the standard at that time that WCW guys were to be buried?


Vince wasn't big on putting WCW talent over and 'Taker wasn't big on DDP.

Great write-up, TripleG, agree about HBK/Hart.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More like DUDs across the board.

Shawn Michaels worshipper/Cena hater isn't going to be very partial on the subject though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

There are plenty of people out there who don't worship Shawn Michaels who have an appreciation for the match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yet to meet them.

Shawn's tag work has blown away the match by an astronomical amount.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Yet to meet them.
> 
> Shawn's tag work has blown away the match by an astronomical amount.


Really? I've seen people on here who aren't big Shawn fans who rate the match decently. Anywho, it's just opinion. I have alot of his other matches as better than that one, for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's just so bad I can't see how anyone can enjoy it, personally. Pacing is one thing. Working a match all wrong is another. The use of headlocks in the match didn't feel like they tried to make it interesting. It was grappling rest holds for the sake of killing time. Much like how a match I watched today in Dean Malenko vs Jeff Jarrett was for 15 minutes. Random holds that lead nowhere till the finish happens. That's what the Iron Man match was. Only replace 15 minutes with 60+. Magnifies the boring, hard to watch nature of the match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker sure loves press slamming HBK in most of their matches.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It's just so bad I can't see how anyone can enjoy it, personally. Pacing is one thing. Working a match all wrong is another. The use of headlocks in the match didn't feel like they tried to make it interesting. It was grappling rest holds for the sake of killing time. Much like how a match I watched today in Dean Malenko vs Jeff Jarrett was for 15 minutes. Random holds that lead nowhere till the finish happens. That's what the Iron Man match was. Only replace 15 minutes with 60+. Magnifies the boring, hard to watch nature of the match.


I understand and you raise a really good point. I just got enjoyment out of watching two all time greats in their prime put on an athletic exhibition. It's a pretty polarizing match, and I wouldn't put it anywhere as the greatest WM match or anything like that. I think if it was worked just a year later it would have been worked completely differently. I personally think they should have both had a fall each on eachother before going to "overtime." Think that would have helped the match. I still just enjoy it from an athletic standpoint.

About to throw in Flair/Windham from 1/20/87. Nothing like some NWA raucous crowd late at night going crazy over headlocks and shit :lol Any thoughts on this great match?


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> :ddp
> 
> We'll always have '97 - '99 where he was on fire.


He managed to be the lone highlight of Souled Out 1997 when he looked like he was gonna join the nWo but then hit the Diamond Cutter to...Scott Norton I believe, and then ran out through the crowd. 

God damn did that PPV suck, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I understand and you raise a really good point. I just got enjoyment out of watching two all time greats in their prime put on an athletic exhibition. It's a pretty polarizing match, and I wouldn't put it anywhere as the greatest WM match or anything like that. I think if it was worked just a year later it would have been worked completely differently. I personally think they should have both had a fall each on eachother before going to "overtime." Think that would have helped the match. I still just enjoy it from an athletic standpoint.
> 
> About to throw in Flair/Windham from 1/20/87. Nothing like some NWA raucous crowd late at night going crazy over headlocks and shit :lol Any thoughts on this great match?


Indeed it is. You'll get thoughts like mine and then thoughts like yours mixed in. I'm always left saddened by the fact it could have at least been a solid match with the promise of tactical, technical work used. It wasn't what I was hoping.

Incredible, amazing, wonderful stuff. I felt the need to use actual positives atm. Doesn't hurt I'll put over most with Barry Windham in his prime. Headlock point is funny, yet explains why that match earns strong appraisal from myself. The use of making the transitions off of headlocks by very interesting. I know the era was different. A tad bit moot considering the talent and intrigue of the match is what assisted things; not b/c it was a more "old-school" type style to fit the times.

Nothing beats the headlock nearfalls from the Flair vs Steamboat matches. Whole crowd GASPS collectively. Unbelievable.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Indeed it is. You'll get thoughts like mine and then thoughts like yours mixed in. I'm always left saddened by the fact it could have at least been a solid match with the promise of tactical, technical work used. It wasn't what I was hoping.
> 
> Incredible, amazing, wonderful stuff. I felt the need to use actual positives atm. Doesn't hurt I'll put over most with Barry Windham in his prime. Headlock point is funny, yet explains why that match earns strong appraisal from myself. The use of making the transitions off of headlocks by very interesting. I know the era was different. A tad bit moot considering the talent and intrigue of the match is what assisted things; not b/c it was a more "old-school" type style to fit the times.
> 
> Nothing beats the headlock nearfalls from the Flair vs Steamboat matches. Whole crowd GASPS collectively. Unbelievable.


I know, right? That's something that always amazes me while watching these NWA matches on DVD. How these crowds go absolute ape-shit over headlocks and the like and just the smallest of movement, when done by the right guy, of course. 

Yet, if you were to throw in WWF 80's DVD and watch a match, you'll never see a WWF crowd go ape over a headlock. Just completely different styles even in the same time period. Sometimes I wish I was old enough to had lived through the NWA stuff and get it as it was happening, because I've never seen/heard a wrestling crowd enjoy a product as much as an NWA crowd enjoyed the NWA. And while there are more than one major players at work there, we all know who the main one is who made it all work, and that's why he's the GOAT. :flair3

Haven't seen this Flair/Windham match in awhile. Going to enjoy this one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KO Bossy said:


> He managed to be the lone highlight of Souled Out 1997 when he looked like he was gonna join the nWo but then hit the Diamond Cutter to...Scott Norton I believe, and then ran out through the crowd.
> 
> God damn did that PPV suck, though.


Very terrible event. Didn't mind Eddie vs Syxx ladder match. It was solid. Been meaning to back pedal and watch Souled Out & SuperBrawl VII again to roll on with the '97 PPVs. Procrastinating b/c the Nitros & PPVs in the summer are SOOOOO much more worth the time.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> I know, right? That's something that always amazes me while watching these NWA matches on DVD. How these crowds go absolute ape-shit over headlocks and the like and just the smallest of movement, when done by the right guy, of course.
> 
> Yet, if you were to throw in WWF 80's DVD and watch a match, you'll never see a WWF crowd go ape over a headlock. Just completely different styles even in the same time period. Sometimes I wish I was old enough to had lived through the NWA stuff and get it as it was happening, because I've never seen/heard a wrestling crowd enjoy a product as much as an NWA crowd enjoyed the NWA. And while there are more than one major players at work there, we all know who the main one is who made it all work, and that's why he's the GOAT. :flair3
> 
> Haven't seen this Flair/Windham match in awhile. Going to enjoy this one.


NWA fans loved the sport aspect. It's always a joy to see fans get into it in such a rapid capacity. Wished I was able to witness it at the same time too. It's clear as day to know what both promotions (jumping into NWA as WCW here) were high on. Vince wanted to embrace the characters along with glitz & glamour meanwhile NWA/WCW was purely focused on the wrestling as priority number one. Then somewhere along the line they decided goofy characters were needed and it nearly hurt their strongest period of wrestling. Fans didn't stick around sadly.

Flair is god. It's factual to any wrestling fan. Along with many other great stars at the time. Magnum TA was the MAN. Too bad we never could get the match vs Flair at Starrcade.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> What do you guys think of the IC title DVD? The newer one. I'm looking at it but I haven't seen most of it.


Amazingly no one answered you, so I will!

It's got an ASS TON of repeats, but they're all really really good repeats (Savage/Steamboat, Bret/Perfect, Bret/Bulldog, Michaels/Razor, Orton/Edge etc.). If you're like me and have a shitload of WWE sets, then it's probably in your best interest to pass on it cause I think I literally have about half of the matches already on dvd. 

But if you don't own most of it already, you can pick it up dirt cheap just about anywhere. Some good exclusive stuff like Umaga/Hardy, RVD/Shelton, & Razor/Jarrett on there too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I own every match you listed from that set :lmao

Dammit WWE. I wanted it to rule. I adore the first History of the Intercontinental Championship set.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My Top 20 WWE/WWF Matches of 2002:

1. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Summerslam 2002 - Unsanctioned Match *(*****)*
2. Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Mercy 2002 - HIAC *(****3/4)*
3. Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle (for the Undisputed Championship) - Vengeance 2002 *(****3/4)*
4. Kane vs. Christian & Jericho vs. Bubba Ray Dudley & Spike Dudley vs. Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam (for the World Tag Team Championships) - RAW 2002 - TLC *(****3/4)*
5. The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan - Wrestlemania 18 *(****1/2)*
6. Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio (for the WWE Tag Team Championships) - No Mercy 2002 *(****1/2)*
7. Elimination Chamber (for the WHC) - Survivor Series 2002 *(****1/2)*
8. Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero - Smackdown 2002 - No DQ *(****1/2)*
9. Kurt Angle vs. Edge - Backlash 2002 *(****1/2)*
10. Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio - Summerslam 2002 *(****1/4)*
11. Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Smackdown 2002 *(****1/4)*
12. The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar (for the Undisputed Championship) - Summerslam 2002 *(****1/4)*
13. Undertaker vs. Triple H - Insurrextion 2002 *(****)*
14. Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (for the Undisputed Championship) - Royal Rumble 2002 *(****)*
15. Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - Unforgiven 2002 *(***3/4)*
16. Undertaker vs. Ric Flair - Wrestlemania 18 *(***3/4)*
17. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - Armageddon 2002 - Three Stages of Hell match *(***1/2)*
18. Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Benoit (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Summerslam 2002 *(***1/2)*
19. Edge vs. Kurt Angle - Judgement Day 2002 - Hair vs. Hair match *(***)*
20. Triple H vs. Kane (for the WHC) - No Mercy 2002 *(***)*


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

why is tag team wrestling dead?


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

I'd put Jericho vs Triple H hell in the cell JD02 above Hbk and HHH 3 stages by a vast margin 

And Id have the angle, Beniot, Guerrero, edge fatal four way from SD in december In the mix as well but other then that nice list 

(Y) 

Ahhhh 2002

Edit: I forgot about the Taker - Jeff ladder match from Raw that would make mine somewhere...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Amazingly no one answered you, so I will!
> 
> It's got an ASS TON of repeats, but they're all really really good repeats (Savage/Steamboat, Bret/Perfect, Bret/Bulldog, Michaels/Razor, Orton/Edge etc.). If you're like me and have a shitload of WWE sets, then it's probably in your best interest to pass on it cause I think I literally have about half of the matches already on dvd.
> 
> But if you don't own most of it already, you can pick it up dirt cheap just about anywhere. Some good exclusive stuff like Umaga/Hardy, RVD/Shelton, & Razor/Jarrett on there too.


Oddly enough I don't have HBK/Razor or Savage/Steamboat on DVD which is sort of a kicker for me here. I own tons of wrasslin' DVDs but never got the Macho Man one and I feel like it's on a bunch of DVDs but I only have the 2nd HBK/Razor match. I've heard awesome things about Razor/Jarrett though.



HayleySabin said:


> I own every match you listed from that set :lmao
> 
> Dammit WWE. I wanted it to rule. I adore the first History of the Intercontinental Championship set.


For both you guys:

Are Jericho/Angle and Jericho/Eddie/Pac any good off that set?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I forgot about that awesome ladder match between Hardy and Taker. I would bump Triple H/Kane off the list and put Hardy/Taker at number 18.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I have not been following WWE ppv's much this year so could anyone tell me if Elimination Chamber is worth buying? It looks great on paper. How were the Elimination Chamber match, Shield/Good guys and Rock/Punk?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HIGH EVAN IS WATCHING TEAM WWE VS TEAM NEXUS HIGH. BRET HART.............

DEFINITELY IN THE TOP 1000 :HHH2.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sparta101 said:


> I have not been following WWE ppv's much this year so could anyone tell me if Elimination Chamber is worth buying? It looks great on paper. How were the Elimination Chamber match, Shield/Good guys and Rock/Punk?


Chamber - ****1/4
Shield/Good guys - ****1/4
Rock/Punk - **
Miz/Cesaro - **3/4

Would get, imo. (Y)

Don't remember much about Del Rio/Show but I think I liked it.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Chamber - ****1/4
> Shield/Good guys - ****1/4
> Rock/Punk - **
> Miz/Cesaro - **3/4
> ...


Rock/Punk was that bad? I thought it would be much better. Is their Royal Rumble match any better?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sparta101 said:


> Rock/Punk was that bad? I thought it would be much better. Is their Royal Rumble match any better?


I personally hated the Rumble match. Would maybe give a star or less. I felt both were kinda uneventful and rather slow. I usually don't have a problem with slower matches if they're productive slower matches but this one really wasn't.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I personally hated the Rumble match. Would maybe give a star or less. I felt both were kinda uneventful and rather slow. I usually don't have a problem with slower matches if they're productive slower matches but this one really wasn't.


Such a shame. I really thought they would be able to give us a 4 star match easily. If the match with Punk is that bad, cant wait to see how bad the one with Cena will be.

Also, just finished watching Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback from Elimination Chamber. **1/4 from me. Horrible match up until the last 5 minutes in my opinion.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really can't see Rock/Cena II being too pretty of a match. I'd love it if they wowed me but I'm going in with low expectations.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Could be a fun match if they do the match in a similar way to Hogan/Rock, instead of them trying to wrestle for 30 plus minutes.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, I'd say give it 15 or maybe 20 if there's some more crowd involvement but the XXVIII one just seemed really drawn out.

Very curious how Lesnar/Trips goes this time around.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

For HHH/Lesnar I am hoping we get a stipulation like a Last Man Standing match or something like that. I never thought their SummerSlam match sucked, but I do think they have potential to give us a much better match, and with this being Wrestlemania I am sure they will both go all out. Cant wait for the rubber match at Extreme Rules though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

EC match was great, Shield/Justice League was great too, but Rock/Punk was shit


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> My Top 20 WWE/WWF Matches of 2002:
> 
> 1. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Summerslam 2002 - Unsanctioned Match *(*****)*
> 2. Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Mercy 2002 - HIAC *(****3/4)*
> ...


Great list. As others mentioned I'd add in Taker/Hardy ladder match from Raw but it's a solid list. Excellent year, too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Oddly enough I don't have HBK/Razor or Savage/Steamboat on DVD which is sort of a kicker for me here. I own tons of wrasslin' DVDs but never got the Macho Man one and I feel like it's on a bunch of DVDs but I only have the 2nd HBK/Razor match. I've heard awesome things about Razor/Jarrett though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jericho vs Angle was a nifty 10 minute match. Triple Threat was too short to be anything memorable; fun considering the quality of talent involved for 4 minutes.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Continuing with some Edge matches:

*WWE Championship: Brock Lesnar (c) & Paul Heyman vs Edge - Rebellion 2002 (Handicap Match)*

This PPV was UK only and although Edge wasn't a world title contender at the time he gets his shot here. An added stipulation was that if Heyman was pinned, Brock would lose the title.

This match starts off extremely slow with both men feeling each other out until Edge frustrates Lesnar my avoiding his clotheslines and then sends him over the top rope. Edge is about to take control but Heyman grabs his legs and Brock takes advantage. Heyman is hilarious during the match, jumping around and making scared and worried faces when Brock is down. Brock works on Edge's back and puts him in multiple submissions that ground him for a while.

At this point Lesnar looks pretty untouchable and Edge has barely had much offense until he counters a few moves and knocks Brock to the outside. He then pulls Heyman into the ring, hits a double axe handle from the top and is about to win the gold until Lesnar pulls him off of Heyman. Edge trying to goad Heyman into getting into the ring throughout the match is fun. He then misses with a cross body knocking the ref down, and Lesnar goes to hit the F-5 but Edge counters into the Edge-cution and has Brock pinned but obviously no ref. Huge rub for Edge there having the champion pinned since he was not in the main event scene at the time. Heyman throws a chair into the ring and as Edge comes off the top rope Lesnar takes him out with it, and proceeds to hit an F-5 for the win.

A pretty standard match but not really that good. Very slow in the first half and Edge didn't look very good at all since he barely got any offense in at first. He fights back in the second half and some of the counters in this match were very nice. Heyman's involvement added a nice dynamic to the match, but overall it was a poor standard for a world title match.

***1/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another upload from me:

*WWE Championship, Intercontinental Championship & World Tag Team Championship Match
Stone Cold Steve Austin & Triple H vs. Kane & Undertaker*

(Backlash 2001)

Tagged Classic Version - Unedited/Unblurred

https://hotfile.com/dl/197593639/19...rp_vs_Kane-Undertaker_-_Backlash2001.avi.html

(Y)


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Continuing on with watching every RAW from 1997. Halfway through August 11th, got Mankind vs HBK still to come for the main event.

Some rookie called Rocky Maivia just returned from injury and hit one of the members of D.O.A with a Rock Bottom and became the newest member of the Nation 

So yeah, its time to see the genesis of The Rock. To say I'm a little bit excited is an understatement.

Also, we have new WWE champion Bret Hart feuding with The Patriot (wtf??), Austin raising hell despite a broken neck, and HBK being an utter prick and clearly enjoying himself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian Vs Mark Henry Vs Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW Title Scramble Match - The Bash 28/06/2009

:mark: Christian and Swagger starting this thing off. Standard but good stuff from them, never getting into a high gear since it's not a one on one match between them. Finlay is next in and he runs down to the ring and begins to clothesline the shit out of both men already there.

Swagger gets the first pin in the match becoming the sort of ECW champion but not officially the ECW champion when he pokes Finlay in the eye (Finlay just came back from an eye injury remember) and rolls him up. No surprise that Swagger got the first pin, because after all he's the favourite due to his extensive knowledge on PINFALLS being an amateur wrestler... opposed to Christian who's been wrestling professionally for over a decade, and Finlay who's been wrestling amateur and professionally since the beginning of time...

Fatty Dreamer next in, and he needs to pick up a win so he can retain his title and then just prevent anyone else from getting a win. What the fuck happened to Dreamer? He started the year off in ECW looking... well pretty good... but once he got closer to the ECW title and then finally won it... he's become his old useless, slow, tubby self who can barely take a decent bump. And I still fucking hate his "E!C!W!" schtick. So fucking forced and he looks like he can't even be arsed.

FINLAY WINS! Can we end the match now? No? Damn. MARK HENRY ENTERS THE MATCH. He causes some chaos the moment he enters the ring. Clothesline to Dreamer, then powerbombs Swagger off the ropes which causes Swagger to also hit a superplex to Christian who lands on Dreamer. Press Slam to Christian on the floor, then WSS to Dreamer and MARK FUCKING HENRY wins the title sort of but not quite. With less than 5 minutes left of the match now, everyone but Dreamer (who is still dead from the WSS) attack Henry and send him out of the ring so they have any kind of chance of pinning someone to win the title before the clock runs out.

Everyone takes turns at diving off the ropes to the outside... so HENRY begins to climb!!! Instead he gets his knee clipped and takes a Sagger Bomb (Vader Bomb... the thing from the ropes not the powerbomb that was also called the Vader Bomb at times.. god that was confusing back then) and Swagger pins Henry! Dammit, Henry should have won.

Swagger as champ would be fine with me though... dammit Dreamer got another pin. He's back as the fucking champ. Fat piece of talentless shit.

Everyone SCRAMBLES to make a pin (ha, get it? Scramble? In a Scramble match? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) but the time runs out and Fatty Dreamer retains his bloody title. Bah.

Fun match though. Don't think it was as good as the one from 08 where Hardy won, but then again I haven't seen that in years.

Rating: ***


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Fatty Dreamer :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal what did you think of Henry vs Bourne III?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Just starting May ECW, Henry/Christian announced as the main event and Bourne/Kidd in the opener :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal what did you think of Henry vs Bourne III?


Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 16/06/2009

YES! YES! YES! YES! :mark: 

Was worried we wouldn't get a third match between them. But we are. Yey! 

Bourne's ribs are taped up following the attack last week. Oh man, this should be good :mark:. Maybe I'm hyping myself up too much. Hope not. :mark:

:mark: yey this is awesome. Bourne is just desperate to try and take Henry down and keep him down, constantly using big strikes to do what he can, but Henry keeps powering him around and shit. Bourne sells the ribs like a champ, and Henry does great as the unstoppable monster taking a beating and swatting the fly. Awesome counter into the WSS at the end. Henry finally gets his win over Bourne. 4th match? 

Rating: ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

Wonder if you'll remember why a 4th match isn't too likely on the horizon for you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can only assume someone gets injured or SOMEONE smokes something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pop in ECW following The Bash to see if you're spot on.

~! 

(kind of funny you don't remember; maybe RAW in 2009 is a blur to you. )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I try to forget Raw 09. A lot. All the time. Raw happened in 09?

Wait... did Henry move to Raw? I remember Henry Vs Orton happening on the TV Taping I went to in November. Oh shit, and Henry like turned face didn't he? By not letting Orton beat him in that... gauntlet match thingy. What? I'll just watch the next ECW show lol.

EDIT: 15 superstar trade? FUCK YOU DONALD FART.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now you're wise to it all. And yep, Henry face turn killed the chance for those two to interact with each other on a physical level. They would become a makeshift duo in the Fall of 2010 till Bourne gets injured. 8*D

Henry got so over in a rapid amount that it kind of owned, tbhayley. Certainly doesn't trump BEAST Henry though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - Survivor Series 1996*










The basic premise of the match is this, The winner gets a title shot at the next WWF pay-per-view. The lengths Bret goes in this match to make Austin look like the next top guy is unbelievable. It just goes to show just how much Bret loved the business and did whatever he could do to better it. Getting to the match, It starts off with some good old wrestling counters and moves but then transcends into a fully fledged brawl which Austin seems to win. Bret then tries to comeback with a bulldog but Austin reverses by sending him towards the turnbuckle. Austin lifts up Bret on to the top rope for a possible superplex but Austin gets shoved off of the top rope, Bret flies off and hits him with an elbow. He goes for the pin to only get a 2 count, Bret and Austin move to the outside and brawl for a bit before going into the crowd and brawling again. This was a major thing back then, It was very rare and really did bring-fourth the inevitable launching of the Attitude Era. After the fight in the Audience, Austin catapults Bret headfirst into the Commentator's table, He sends him into the ring and applies an abdominal stretch. Bret eventually gets out of it and starts another brawl for brawl with Austin which he actually wins this time and to a loud pop too. The NY crowd was very much with Bret. Anyways, Bret lifts up Austin and hits a piledriver for a long two count. Austin regains control and hits a superplex from the top rope with succession and a stunner but fails to pin him right after. After a few holds and such, Austin applies The Million Dollar Dream on Bret, He looks to be dozed but out of nowhere. Bret somehow finds life and reverses the move by climbing onto the second turnbuckle and flipping himself onto Austin. It's in a pinfall position, Austin shoulders are on the mat and he gets counted out.

This was an incredible match and just showed what kind of match Austin and Bret could produce, If they brought their A game. The ending was so well executed that it kept Austin strong while not making Bret look weak.

*(****3/4)*​
*Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 13*










This is highly regarded as their best encounter, A classic no doubt but 5 stars? Let's see.

This match was made when Austin interfered in Bret's match against Sid on an episode of RAW and costing him the WWF Championship. It was also announced as a Submission match with UFC Combatant, Ken Shamrock as the referee. To the match, Austin and Bret both make their entrances to the ring. Bret again with the crowd advantage as he gets the majority of cheers while Austin receives a mixed reaction from the audience. It kicks off right away with Austin spearing Bret and beginning a ground and pound game with Bret. They take it to the outside, Punches are thrown and Austin grabs Bret into a headlock position but he counters by sending Austin's face into the ring post. Bret supposedly tries to suplex Austin on the ground but he counters and drops Bret's groin on the railing. Similar to their SS encounter, They take it to the crowd area and Bret dominants during this part. After a little while, Bret tries to whip Austin into the steel steps but he counters and Bret feels the thud. They finally return to the ring where Austin repeatedly kicks Bret's face in and tries for a back body drop but gets swinging neck breaker for his trouble. Classic Bret is now in motion and working on his opponent's leg, In this case Austin's. May i add, Austin's selling throughout the match was absolutely sensational. He continually walked like he a handicap cripple and never missed a beat when Bret hit a move. Bret introduced a new move in combination with the ring, The Figure Four and Austin sold it big time. Back in the ring, Bret wraps a chair around Austin's knee and climbs onto the top rope in hopes of hitting a flying stomp but Austin smashes a chair onto his spine and he falls off like deadweight. Austin continues domination of the match for a good few minutes with offenses like chair shots, suplexes, slams. elbow off the top etc.

Austin sends Bret flying though the ropes and to the mat below. He then tries whip him into the railing but Bret counters and Austin's face cracks off the steel railing, Now his face as JR likes to say is a "Proverbial Crimson Mask" 

Bret is now in complete control of the match and truly torturing Austin, After a lil while. Bret has Austin in the corner and pounding on his open wound, Austin presumingly says fuck it and kicks Bret in the crotch. Both men are down now, Austin with every ounce of strength he has left in him makes it back to his feet before Bret and he looks PISSED!!!

Austin with power whips Bret chestfirst into the turnbuckle, Austin with Bret now on the floor shakes his head left and right and i'm guessing he said some profound things. He shoves Bret into the corner and stomps a mudhole in his ASS. The crowd seem to be siding with Austin now, He performs a nasty superplex on Bret which looks like he might have hurt himself too but Austin is back up on his feet none the less. Austin then tries to choke Bret out with an electrical cord and you should see the fans faces when he does this. They are priceless, However Bret gets hold of a ring bell and smashes it against Austin's head. Bret finally applies a sharpshooter on Austin and from that moment an iconic image was made, This image:










Austin eventually passed out and Bret won as we all now but from that point forward Austin was defined and was solidified as the next top guy. 

This match was perfect, It had everything a 5 star match should and more. Psychology, Emotion, Storytelling, Wrestling, Brawling, Brutality etc. It personified Austin as a face and the next top guy, It also set the bar for future matches and matches within the Attitude Era. I even think it was Austin's and Bret's best performance with only Austin/Angle SS2001 and Bret/Owen WM10 matching it.

*(*****)*​
I will review their encounters at The Revenge of the Taker and on RAW in a couple of days, Hope you guys enjoyed.​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BEAST Henry is the fuckin' man. PG Face Henry? Sexual Chocolate >>>>>>>> him.

Btw, sorry if you dislike self-promotion here, but have you checked my Top 200 WWF/E Matches Part 1 video? 8*D
If ya haven't:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


>


Austin's face there - :lol "Argh, is that some shit stains down there?"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs William Regal & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 30/06/2009

15 man trade on Raw made by Donald Fart. We lost Henry and Swagger . But gained Regal . And then a bunch of... uhhh... other people. Sheamus had a squash match earlier. He looked weird with his hair being spiked up still... but twice as long. And while I'm not one for wanting (male) wrestlers to have tight attire... Sheamus' looked like it was so loose they could fall down around his ankles. I'd rather stare at his bulge through some tight pants than stare at it with nothing covering it. Not that I intentionally stare at Sheamus' or any other man's bulge. But sometimes it's just like... THERE IN YOUR FACE.

So ECW isn't looking as good atm with some of the better guys being moved to Raw and ECW only really getting Regal that's of any worth atm. Is Finlay gone too? Did we get Goldust yet? Anyone like, give me a list of all the people who moved and where they moved to? I would very much appreciate it and I promise I won't look at your bulge.

Well lets focus on the positives here. CHRISTIAN VS REGAL. Shame Fatty Dreamer and Vladimir Fuckov are involved in this one.

Christian does all the work early on, taking on both Regal and Fuckov, managing to keep control of the match for his team. They go to commercial... and when we come back Dreamer has somehow fucked it all up by simply getting in the ring because he's getting mauled. Useless fat twat.

Great little spot where Dreamer bounces off the ropes and slaps Regal's chest, so Regal just NUTS him for being a twat. Christian gets tagged back in and he ends up having his shoulder fucked up and thus the awesome arm selling of Christian can make his match good again after Dreamer stunk it up . Striker tells everyone to rub themselves at home. Sick bastard.

Regal is a nice vicious bastard attacking the arm, and Christian is a great seller. So they ruin that by leaving Vlad and Fatty in the ring for a little bit. :lmao what the FUCK is Dreamer doing? He goes to the ropes for a diving clothesline I think it was... but before he hit it he did... something with his hands... looked like they were spazzing out and he couldn't control them. God what a goofy twat he is.

Regal takes out Christian on the outside, then comes in and fucking mauls Dreamer, only for Vlad to blind tag in and take the win for himself. Regal seems pleased. BEGINNING OF THE RUTHLESS ROUNDTABLE.

Mostly a really good match. Vlad and Dreamer brought it down a little, but not too much thankfully. 

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Swagger vs Christian made the honorable mentions list only?

Flabbergasted.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

> WWE announced all 15 wrestlers who traded brands as part of the trade between the Raw, Smackdown, and ECW brands.
> 
> -WWE Raw receives: Gail Kim, Alicia Fox, Jack Swagger, Evan Bourne, and Mark Henry.
> 
> ...


Swagger, Finlay, Henry, Bourne & Kidd gone


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Swagger/Christian 24/02/2009 match only made his honourable mentions list... on a top 200 match list? Wouldn't be lower than top 25 for me. Probably top 15 if I didn't go with just STARS~! which I think is the case for my top 100 WWF/E Matches list I did a few years back.

EDIT: We lost Henry, Finlay, Bourne and Swagger and got the fucking BELLA TWINS. Worst. Draft. Ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown cleaned up in that trade. Hardy, Hart Dynasty, AND Finlay? No wonder I was big on Smackdown during the same year.

Well, I guess ECW was nearly even with the addition of Regal & Goldust. But, as hot as they hot, Bellas are no Henry, Bourne, or Swagger.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Swagger vs Christian made the honorable mentions list only?
> 
> Flabbergasted.


Consider Top 250 or even 300 lists out there that didn't even have a honorable mention, I'm not the only one to blame :evil:. Though the ECW Feb. one was, easily, the HM that came closest to making the list.

What are your thoughts on the list itself, though?

EDIT: Well, see the positive side of that trade - Shelton, Goldust and Regal. And Christian's still there, so could've been worse.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Consider Top 250 or even 300 lists out there that didn't even have a honorable mention, I'm not the only one to blame :evil:. Though the ECW Feb. one was, easily, the HM that came closest to making the list.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the list itself, though?
> 
> EDIT: Well, see the positive side of that trade - Shelton, Goldust and Regal. And Christian's still there, so could've been worse.


Interesting to me where a lot of matches kept popping up would be considering very high in my books and certainly towards the stronger half of the list if I decided to take the time and make one. Such as Eddie/JBL from Judgment Day, Angle/Mysterio Summerslam, & Regal/Benoit No Mercy. Did mark seeing Undertaker/Mankind boiler room brawl make the list. Thought I was might be the only guy in the world who adores it.

A few on it I wouldn't add personally. Main being Hart vs Michaels from Survivor Series '92.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 07/07/2009

I hope this one match a week I want to see isn't gonna become a regular thing now. And honestly I don't REALLY want to see Vladimir Kozlov in a match, but dammit it's CHRISTIAN and I have to watch all his matches because he's awesome.

:lmao Fatty Dreamer on commentary (winner of this faces him for the title at Night of Champions), and fuck me, now he's trying to be a real commentator and forcing shitty lines out. Urgh. Does this guys' suckage know no bounds?

"I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY MY BODY LOOKS LIKE A BAG OF MILK, BUT I HAVE BRUISES COVERED IN IT" ... uhhh... WHAT? Just shut the fuck up and fuck off you fat useless twat. My god, THIS GUY is the champion? And people have the nerve to talk shit about Swagger and his goofiness?

:lmao even Striker and Josh (it is Josh Matthews right?) are taking the piss out of Dreamer and calling him out on giving shit answers to their questions.

Some of this match feels like a predecessor to Christian/Zeke at the RR next year, with Vlad working over the back of Christian, only not nearly as well (aside from one sick looking move by Vlad out of a Torture Rack).

KILLSWITCH! Christian wins and will face Dreamer for the title at NOC. Where the reign of FAT will end!

Match is solid. Christian is his usual awesome self... Vlad keeps things simple so he doesn't suck giant balls or bore us to death. Pleasantly surprised tbh, even if Christian was involved.

Rating: **1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The fear I had for that match when it aired was surreal. Wasn't sure if WWE was going to give us Koslov vs Dreamer on PPV. Didn't matter - Christian vs Dreamer from NOC isn't a good match. At all.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Another upload from me:
> 
> *WWE Championship, Intercontinental Championship & World Tag Team Championship Match
> Stone Cold Steve Austin & Triple H vs. Kane & Undertaker*
> ...


Thanks a lot, I've been looking for this match for a while now and didn't want to DL the full PPV just for this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn, was hoping Christian would get a decent match out of Fatty Dreamer. Ah well, at least it leads to the epic second reign of Christian. At least I remember it being epic. Better live up to my expectations! Hate how they fucked us over with the first Christian/Regal PPV match. SummerSlam was it? But they made up for it with that awesome ECW match that I was in attendance for .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Top 10 HiaC matches:

10.Batista/HHH- Vengeance 05
9.HHH/Jericho- Judgment Day 02
8.6 Man HiaC Match- Armageddon 00
7.Taker/Edge- Summerslam 08
6.Taker/Lesnar- No Mercy 02
5.HHH/HBK- Bad Blood 04
4.HHH/Cactus Jack- No Way Out 00
3.HHH/Taker- WM 28
2.Taker/Mankind- KOTR 98
1.Taker/HBK- IYH:BB 97


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Top 10 HiaC matches:
> 
> 10.Batista/HHH- Vengeance 05
> 9.HHH/Jericho- Judgment Day 02
> ...


HHH/HBK appears but no Orton/Taker? :taker


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

1. Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
2. Triple H vs. Batista
3. Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar
4. Undertaker vs. Edge
5. Triple H vs. Cactus Jack
6. Undertaker vs. Triple H
7. Undertaker vs. Randy Orton
8. DX vs. Legacy
9. Triple H vs. Kevin Nash
10. Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena vs. CM Punk

I would have included Undertaker vs. Mankind, but I don't even consider that a match, I think I consider that to be a segment, for some reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Damn, was hoping Christian would get a decent match out of Fatty Dreamer. Ah well, at least it leads to the epic second reign of Christian. At least I remember it being epic. Better live up to my expectations! Hate how they fucked us over with the first Christian/Regal PPV match. SummerSlam was it? But they made up for it with that awesome ECW match that I was in attendance for .


Dreamer brought down the pacing to a sluggish manner. Their TV matches were MUCH better. I liked them at least. 

Yep, Summerslam was the slap to the face peppered with a kick to the nuts. 9 seconds. What the hell WWE? The only glimmering light there is they did the same thing as 2008. Jip level match on PPV and following ECW the match would get a good amount of time and rule. Breaking Point match got 10 minutes and they killed it so at least we got to see it on a PPV eventually. :mark:

Being live for the final match in their program had to be unreal. Wonder how the crowd reacted when Regal didn't get the championship. :hmm:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Top 10 HiaC matches:
> 
> 10.Batista/HHH- Vengeance 05
> 9.HHH/Jericho- Judgment Day 02
> ...


10. Batista/Taker
9. Taker/HHH
8. Taker/Edge
7. Taker/Orton
6. Six Man Armageddon
5. HHH/Cactus Jack
4. Batista/HHH
3. Taker/Lesnar
2. Taker/Mankind
1. Taker/HBK

Something like that.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

5/26 ECW you know what that means, Bourne/Henry I :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crowd were pretty split between the two. Christian was too hard to not cheer lol. I do wish Regal had gotten a run with the belt though. If only ECW didn't die in early 2010.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> HHH/HBK appears but no Orton/Taker? :taker


Not a big fan of that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 10 HIAC Matches:

1. Undertaker Vs HBK
2. Undertaker Vs Brock
3. Undertaker Vs HHH
4. Undertaker Vs Orton
5. Batista Vs HHH
6. Undertaker Vs Batista
7. Undertaker Vs Mankind
8. Cactus Jack Vs HHH
9. Undertaker Vs HHH Vs Rock Vs Austin Vs Angle Vs Rikishi
10. Undertaker Vs Edge

Hmmm... I think someone might be the king of Cells matches...


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

This sucks, My first full blown review in a series of matches. Yet no one replies, Looks like i won't be doing anymore if i continually get no feedback.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> This sucks, My first full blown review in a series of matches. Yet no one replies, Looks like i won't be doing anymore if i continually get no feedback.


Well, i did rep ya for it


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Well, i did rep ya for it


Just noticed, Rep back for you too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> This sucks, My first full blown review in a series of matches. Yet no one replies, Looks like i won't be doing anymore if i continually get no feedback.


Two good reviews. Well formatted too - good use of pictures. I repped you for it. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Just noticed, Rep back for you too.


I am of course fully with you on both reviews, some days i prefer the SS match, other the Mania classic.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

@Wrestlingfan - Working on any more reviews? More Austin or Hart?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 10 cell matches:

1. Batista vs Triple H
2. Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar
3. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker
4. Undertaker vs Randy Orton
5. Undertaker vs Triple H
6. Cactus Jack vs Triple H
7. The ROCK vs Kurt Angle vs Stone Cold vs Triple H vs Rikishi vs Undertaker
8. Undertaker vs Edge
9. Undertaker vs Batista
10. Triple H vs Chris Jericho

Not including Mankind vs Taker because it's not so much of a match and way too short.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> This sucks, My first full blown review in a series of matches. Yet no one replies, Looks like i won't be doing anymore if i continually get no feedback.


Must have skipped over it. But great write-up and I can't say I disagree with any of it.

Survivor Series 96 - ★★★★
Wrestlemania 13 - ★★★★★


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive really gotta watch the Revenge of the Taker match, dont honestly remember it tbh.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Two good reviews. Well formatted too - good use of pictures. I repped you for it. (Y)


Your literally my favorite person on this entire forum, We have so much in common whether it's Taker/HHH WM27 being better than their WM28 encounter. Taker/Angle being at Mania instead of NWO.

I plan to finish off Bret/Austin with their matches at Revenge of the Taker and on RAW. If you have any suggestions of feuds/matches i should review, Let me know. Better yet, You have a pretty good of grasp of the English Language (much better than mine anyways ) and you seem like you would pull off the perfect review. Please write one.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Your literally my favorite person on this entire forum, We have so much in common whether it's Taker/HHH WM27 being better than their WM28 encounter. Taker/Angle being at Mania instead of NWO.
> 
> I plan to finish off Bret/Austin with their matches at Revenge of the Taker and on RAW. If you have any suggestions of feuds/matches i should review, Let me know. Better yet, You have a pretty good of grasp of the English Language (much better than mine anyways ) and you seem like you would pull off the perfect review. Please write one.


Well that's very kind of you, dude. Thanks (Y)

Ok sounds good, I look forward to reading them. As for suggestions to review, I'll try to think up a few interesting matches from the era you're already doing and give you the heads up.

And I have been reviewing a few Edge matches recently since me and Nostalgia have been discussing them quite a bit. I think they're scattered around a few pages back now. I'm going to write a few more though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I have question for you guys, Would you rather of had Mankind/Taker be a 30 minute match with chairs, thumbtacks, barbwire etc. or had it be a 2 moment match like it is now?

Do you think it still would have been regarded as one of the greatest HIAC matches?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Well that's very kind of you, dude. Thanks (Y)
> 
> Ok sounds good, I look forward to reading them. As for suggestions to review, I'll try to think up a few interesting matches from the era you're already doing and give you the heads up.
> 
> And I have been reviewing a few Edge matches recently since me and Nostalgia have been discussing them quite a bit. I think they're scattered around a few pages back now. I'm going to write a few more though.


When i try to rep you, It says something about spreading rep around before repping this specific person (AlienBountyHunter). That sucks, The last time i repped you, was like last month. When we had that Taker/HHH WM27 discussion.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm currently watching HHH/Taker from wrestlemania 27 and I'm thinking this beats their WM 28 match. 

HHH hit 3 pedigrees, seriously who kicks out of 3 pedigrees? Then HHH keeps beating him with the chair saying stay down. AND THEN delivers the tombstone. I honestly thought the streak was over when I was watching this live.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I'm currently watching HHH/Taker from wrestlemania 27 and I'm thinking this beats their WM 28 match.
> 
> HHH hit 3 pedigrees, seriously who kicks out of 3 pedigrees? Then HHH keeps beating him with the chair saying stay down. AND THEN delivers the tombstone. I honestly thought the streak was over when I was watching this live.


Taker's selling in that match, esp the at the ending is Oscar worthy IMO.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I have question for you guys, Would you rather of had Mankind/Taker be a 30 minute match with chairs, thumbtacks, barbwire etc. or had it be a 2 moment match like it is now?
> 
> Do you think it still would have been regarded as one of the greatest HIAC matches?


Interesting. I'm assuming if they had this 30 min match you're referring too they wouldn't have had those two iconic moments? I definitely think it wouldn't be as iconic but it might have been a better match. I'd probably still keep it as it is though.



xdoomsayerx said:


> I'm currently watching HHH/Taker from wrestlemania 27 and I'm thinking this beats their WM 28 match.
> 
> HHH hit 3 pedigrees, seriously who kicks out of 3 pedigrees? Then HHH keeps beating him with the chair saying stay down. AND THEN delivers the tombstone. I honestly thought the streak was over when I was watching this live.


Exactly, great match. Taker sells so well and Trips just looks unstoppable. I love how they made Taker look more of a man than a 'being' in this one more than any other 'Mania match he'd had before.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TEAM NEXUS VS TEAM WWE : AWESOME

DANIEL BRYAN VS THE MIZ VS JOHN MORRISON : REALLY FUCKING GOOD

There you have it, two in-depth reviews of the last two matches I've watched :lol

Since I'm watching Hell in a Cell 2010 I might as well throw in my rankings at this point ;

1. HBK/Undertaker BB 97
2. BROCK/Undertaker NM 02
3. Batista/HHH VEN 05
4. HHH/Foley NWO 00
5. Edge/Undertaker SS 08
6. Orton/Undertaker ARM 05
7. HHH/Undertaker WM XXVIII
8. Foley/Undertaker KOTR 98
9. Batista/Undertaker SS 07
10. Armageddon 6 Man
11. Jericho/HHH JD 02
12. Cena/Punk/Del Rio HIAC 11
13. Henry/Orton HIAC 11
14. Punk/Undertaker HIAC 09
15. Orton/Sheamus HIAC 10
16. HHH/HBK BB 04
17. HHH/Nash BB 03
18. DX/Show & McMahons UNF 06
19. Punk/Ryback HIAC 12
20. DX/Legacy HIAC 09
21. Orton/Cena HIAC 09
22. Kane/Mankind RAW 98
23. Taker/Austin vs Mankind/Kane RAW 98
24. Taker/Kane HIAC 10
25. Taker/Boss Man

GOAT Gimmick match. The top 20 are legit ****+* matches, while two of the bottom five aren't even matches really. Only BAD cell matches I can think of are Taker/Kane (it's Taker/Kane in the cell, I have warm feelings for it), and the WOAT Undertaker match @ Wrestlemania XV.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

10. Armageddon HIAC
9. Taker/HHH
8. Taker/Foley
7. Foley/HHH
6. Taker/Orton
5. Taker/Batista
4. Batista/HHH
3. Taker/Edge
2. Taker/Lesnar
1. Taker/HBK


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THAT STUPID FUCKING STEEL STEPS IRISH CURSE BACKBREAKER SPOT.

I fucking HATE that spot so much. It seriously brings down that match like half a star for me because I HATE IT. FUCK.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

1. Taker/HBK
2. Taker/Lesnar
3. Batista/HHH
4. Taker/Orton
5. Taker/Batista
6. Taker/Edge
7. Foley/HHH
8. Armageddon HIAC
9. HHH/HBK
10. DX/Legacy

Taker/Punk had the potential to be a great HIAC match but they cut it short and made it into a squash match. Taker's leg selling in that match was tremendous, might i add.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Why oh why did WWE have to start the HIAC PPV? Look at all those matches before that yearly PPV started, and they're almost all good. Why ruin the 'GOAT gimmick match' (as KOK said) with a yearly PPV that isn't even used to end big rivalries? Argh. :cussin:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love how Nexus was such a big deal until CENA DA TROLL had his way with them. I mean my god, Wade Barrett was on fire and now he absolutely sucks. Must just be the in-ring prowess of the great one making Wade look good.

:cena3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> I love how Nexus was such a big deal until CENA DA TROLL had his way with them. I mean my god, Wade Barrett was on fire and now he absolutely sucks. Must just be the in-ring prowess of the great one making Wade look good.
> 
> :cena3


Maybe him being on fire had nothing to do with "in-ring prowess" at all. Maybe they actually let him showcase his attributes that are strong and gave him a gimmick that fit him like a glove. :barrett1

But with the way he's been booked, I suppose it won't be long until he's "on fire" again. :vince


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H- Summer Slam 2002.

****1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've gone down on that significantly. Still think it's great, just not "EPIC OMG".

Barrett sucks, the best thing that ever happened to him was :cena2.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H- Summer Slam 2002.
> 
> ****1/2*


Why so low? Obviously ***1/2 isn't a bad rating but I'd personally have it a lot higher.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> I've gone down on that significantly. Still think it's great, just not "EPIC OMG".
> 
> Barrett sucks, the best thing that ever happened to him was :cena2.


Oh well, I'll always be able to enjoy the few weeks between HIAC and SVS when Cena was Barrett's bitch and we had awesome segments like this:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Thought Michaels/HHH was great, remembered being shocked over HHH NOT being in the main event lmao.
Shitted all over Lesnar/Rock, recently watched the match again and damn was it bad.



The Rawk said:


> Oh well, I'll always be able to enjoy the few weeks between HIAC and SVS when Cena was Barrett's bitch and we had awesome segments like this:


That Cena feud killed the Nexus.
Taking them out one by one with the element of surprise was one thing, but taking four out all at once?
also Harris being taken out by Cena slamming a door in his face :no:.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Why so low? Obviously ***1/2 isn't a bad rating but I'd personally have it a lot higher.


I enjoyed it, just remembered it being a lot better. It dragged a bit this time and some of the spots were so obvious that it took me out of the match and lowered it a lot. I just checked and last time i watched it i had it at ****** Maybe i'm getting too harsh watching matches now :lol

Going to watch Lesnar/Rocky soon enough.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> Maybe him being on fire had nothing to do with "in-ring prowess" at all. Maybe they actually let him showcase his attributes that are strong and gave him a gimmick that fit him like a glove. :barrett1
> 
> But with the way he's been booked, I suppose it won't be long until he's "on fire" again. :vince


Couldn't agree more. So much talk about Vinny and Creative being positive about the future of guys like Rhodes, Barrett and Ziggler, I guess they don't even know that these guys' futures are completely on their hands.

Part 2 of my Top 200 will be here in a few minutes. W/BREAKING BENJAMIN PLAYING :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm getting insane with how harsh some of my ratings have been lately.

BROCK-ROCK is insanely good. My favorite Rock match ever and one of my favorite matches ever, period.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> I enjoyed it, just remembered it being a lot better. It dragged a bit this time and some of the spots were so obvious that it took me out of the match and lowered it a lot. I just checked and last time i watched it i had it at ****** Maybe i'm getting too harsh watching matches now :lol


Well, to be fair I haven't watched it in ages so it might even drop in my estimations. It's strange to think that Shawn went back solely for that one match because he said he wanted his son to see him wrestle. That could have been his last match. And then he stayed eight more years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bme said:


> Shitted all over Lesnar/Rock, recently watched the match again and damn was it bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****1/4 for Rock/Brock.
***1/4 for HHH/HBK.

Watching WM 14 atm. Tag Team Battle Royal was retarded. Random interference from people not in the match... HENRY staying in the match long after his partner is eliminated... :lmao.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Taker/Kane definitely has to top the list of Taker's best matches.
One thing about the feud though was disturbing, Kane digging up Taker's parents and chokeslamming Taker into one of the caskets.

The rest of the card is mediocre except that and the Dumpster match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Summerslam 2002:

Angle/Mysterio- ***3/4
Jericho/Flair- ***1/2
Eddie/Edge- **3/4
UA/Booker&Goldust- **
Benoit/RVD- ***
Taker/Test- *
HHH/HBK- ****
Brock/Rock- ***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Summerslam 2002:

Angle/Mysterio- ***3/4
Jericho/Flair- ***
Eddie/Edge- ***
UA/Booker&Goldust- **
Benoit/RVD- ****
Taker/Test- **3.4
HHH/HBK- ***1/4
Brock/Rock- ****1/4


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HBK/HHH is a ***** match for the performance Shawn gave us after not wrestling for 4 years, Hell when he kipped up. I knew it was 5 stars.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> HBK/HHH is a ***** match for the performance Shawn gave us after not wrestling for 4 years, Hell when he kipped up. I knew it was 5 stars.


Not even close. 

you could see the spots they were planning from a mile off. Michaels was good as the babyface in peril as well as Trips was the sadistic heel wanting to break Michaels in half, the story of the match was good/great but it's the match itself that just wanes from even hitting ****** 

The aftermath of the match with the unprotected sledgehammer shot was great though.

HBK/Trips series in 02

Summerslam: ****1/2*
Armageddon: ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Armageddon match is amazing.

It's absolutely TERRIBLE, but it's amazing :lol.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Just out of interest TheWrestlingFan what are your 5* matches?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> The Armageddon match is amazing.
> 
> It's absolutely TERRIBLE, but it's amazing :lol.


I remember being psyched as fuck for that Armageddon match. It was entertaining as hell, but not 'great'.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Ladies and gentlemen, behold PART 2 of my Top 200 GOAT WWE/F matches:
*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ha, video is blocked in my country .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> *Ladies and gentlemen, behold PART 2 of my Top 200 GOAT WWE/F matches:
> *


Seems to be blocked to us UK'ers :sad: (EMI copyright)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> Just out of interest TheWrestlingFan what are your 5* matches?


Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 13
Triple H vs. HBK vs. Chris Benoit - WM20
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2001
Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker - Smackdown 2003
Undertaker vs. HBK - Bad Blood 1997
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WM10
HBK vs. Chris Jericho - WM19
Undertaker vs. HBK - WM26
Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle - NWO 2006
HBK vs. Mankind - Mind Games 1996
Triple H vs. Mick Foley - Rumble 2000
Undertaker vs. Triple H - WM27
Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit - Rumble 2001
Eddie vs. Brock Lesnar - NWO 2004
John Cena vs. HBK - RAW After WM23
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Ironman match on Smackdown 2003
Royal Rumble 2004

These ones off the top of my head.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ I can't watch it ATF, I get a message saying 'This video contains content from EMI, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.' Damn UK. Can you write down the list and post it too?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Undertaker vs. HBK - WM26


Not the WM25 too mate?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Undertaker vs. HBK - Bad Blood 1997
> Undertaker vs. HBK - WM26
> Triple H vs. Mick Foley - Rumble 2000
> 
> These ones off the top of my head.


Agreed with these ones.

HBK/Taker WM 26 is my top match ever. Just everything about it was perfect.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/HBK WM25 lacked emotion but it was still a very good match at *****3/4*


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched *HBK/Hart from Survivour Series 97 *today. I give it a **** rating, it was really good.Both guys were gods in the ring so it’s not like they couldn’t put on a good match. It’s the polar opposite of the Iron Man match, but that’s good I think. This is more of a fight than a match, but that’s fine by me. The match itself is overlooked I think, as no one even remembers anything but the finish.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ugh. FUCK EMI. The song would be So Cold by Breaking Benjamin, now it won't be 

Well, here's the list:


> 149 - Jericho/Christian WM 20
> 148 - Eddie/Angle WM 20
> 147 - Austin/HBK KOTR '97
> 146 - Bret/HBK WM 12
> ...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watched and written reviews for the first 14 WM shows now. Oh man, can't see ANYONE agreeing with me as to which WM is currently the best . It WILL change as I get into the likes of WM 17 and 19 and 21 and 24 and 26 etc, but damn, not even I would have called it being as high as it is right now. WM 1 review will be online on my BLOG~! (hey, I have a blog. don't think anyone knew before now) on Monday (11th), with one new review every day . Gonna set it up now so the first 14 are set to automatically post on the right days and at the same time each day, then I can concentrate on getting the rest reviewed within the next 2 weeks so I can get my video script finished off and then recorded and edited asap as I won't have as much free time as before as I just got a job .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I just got a job .


(Y) Congrats Cal, im still facking looking :sad:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Big Z said:


> I just got a job .


Awesome and congrats! What Taco Bell should I call?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Taker/HBK WM25 lacked emotion but it was still a very good match at *****3/4*


I'm a little confused by this since Taker/HBK was one of the biggest emotional roller coaster rides of a match I've ever experienced. Judging by your rating you obviously still love it but I guess just not quite at 5 star level.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I'm a little confused by this since Taker/HBK was one of the biggest emotional roller coaster rides of a match I've ever experienced. Judging by your rating you obviously still love it but I guess just not quite at 5 star level.


I do have the ratings the other way around, **************************************** for WM25  and ****3/4 for WM26 , really need to watch that again though tbh, both of course such classic matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I know I like the WM26 match less than just about anybody, but that aside I can't understand how the WM25 match has less emotion than it, let alone it lacking emotion completely.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I have both around that level! I plan on re-watching both before WrestleMania this year. I'll have to make sure to keep my expectations for Taker's Mania match this year after seeing Taker/HBK I & II again. I think Taker/Punk has potential to arrive at Taker/Edge level if things fall into place correctly for them.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

My only big problem with the WM25 match is the finish


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I have both HBK/Taker Wrestlemania matches at 5* but the 26 one just pips the 25 one because of the emotion of Michaels being in his final match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MoveMent said:


> My only big problem with the WM25 match is the finish


Moonsault off the top rope countered into a Tombstone Piledriver was an awesome finish imo. However, you saw it coming. Is that why you don't like it?


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

had to end that match somehow, moonsault into tombstone was at least a fresh finish. zero beef. it's a match i have a hard time rating because it was pretty much the best match i've seen live, and it doesn't have the same zest upon rewatches. haven't watched in in a year or 2 though, but i feel like the initial reaction is the most important thing for a match like that.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Edge vs Eddie Guerrero - Smackdown September 26th 2002 (No DQ)*

I remember watching this match when it first aired and a few times after that, and really loving it. Let's see if it still holds up.

The opening exchanges are pretty standard with a few moves by both guys, before Edge traps Eddie and puts him in a few arm bars. Eddie comes back with some suplexes and then puts Edge in a sleeper hold. Eddie is pretty much flawless in this match and Edge is probably at his peak form here. Sadly, this would be the match that put him on the shelf for a long while.

Both men go up top and Eddie hits a big superplex that Edge kicks out from. Both men get knocked to the outside and Edge retrieves a ladder. He goes at Eddie with it but misses and takes out the referee with a nasty shot. I'm not sure why a ref bump was needed since it's a no DQ match and another ref comes out later anyway, but a solid spot nonetheless.

Back in the ring after the break, and after a few nice counters Edge is propped up on the top rope and Eddie hits a beautiful hurricanrana. He's now in control and goes for another similar hurricanrana in the other corner but edge counters in into a great sit-out powerbomb. Great counter and both men are down. After a rest period Eddie brings a second ladder into the ring, and sets up Edge between them before coming over the top rope onto both ladders. The crowd respects this and is really into this match now. Eddie sets a ladder up in the corner and climbs it, but Edge gets up and climbs it too, but Eddie is able to hit a fantastic sunset flip powerbomb which looks brutal. Somehow Edge is able to kick out.

Both men look worn out big time at this point. Edge is set up on the ladder in the corner, Eddie runs towards him but Edge back drops him neck first into the ladder. Eddie lands hard and is lucky he doesn't break his neck. Still the match goes on, with Edge setting the other ladder up in the other corner. Both men climb it before Edge takes control and hits an Edge-cution from the ladder and gets the win.

Great match. Some fantastic spots involving the ladder and all the bumps looked brutal. These two really had great chemistry and this is probably their best match together. And to think we got this on free TV!

***** 1/4*


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I've seen people call Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat from Chi-Town Rumble 1989 the best in history. Is there anyone on here who actually agrees with that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't even think its the best match of their series, never mind the best match ever .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

great review AlienBountyHunter, pretty much agreed, i have it at ****** at last watch but tbf every match i've re-watched lately hasn't gone down as well as before


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> great review AlienBountyHunter, pretty much agreed, i have it at ****** at last watch but tbf every match i've re-watched lately hasn't gone down as well as before


Thanks, man. Yeah, I originally had it at **** as well but I added and extra 1/4 during the review as I thought it deserved it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've been meaning to check out that No DQ match for a long while. On the other hand, I finally just finished giving Jericho/HHH from HIAC a proper watch at last.

*Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Judgment Day 2002)*
Starts off slow with some regular brawling in the ring then shortly after becomes more violent. Jericho hits HHH with catapults into the cell, ladders and all but it takes a Running Bulldog that supposedly hit the ladder (even though Hunter is a good bit away from it) to make HHH bleed. Not much of note happens after that until referee, Tim White (best known for the goofy suicide-attempt segments) takes a huge bump into the cell and does a wicked blade job. Other referees open the cell door with a wrench (or what's it called?) while the action continues until Jericho is busted open with a sledgehammer shot and then starts to crawl out of the cell with HHH following him. Match excitement picks up from here on as they make their way to the announce tables and they go through the Spanish one with a great looking DDT. HHH brings out a 2x4 wrapped with barbwire which forces Jericho to climb the top of the cell and that's where they stay until the end. Jericho has the Walls applied for quite a bit as another referee climbs the cell to do the job but HHH powers out. First Pedigree attempt is reversed into a Backdrop (how lucky that the cell didn't break!) but soon enough, the match is finished as he hits Jericho in the head hard with barbwire 2x4 and then the Pedigree for the successful pinfall victory. Kinda dull in spots but entertaining elsewhere. Crowd is mostly dead which doesn't help things but it's still a decent match and uses the cell structure better than many other matches I've seen inside it. ★★★¼


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Are WWE releasing every WrestleMania individually now?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just releasing 1-15 I believe.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ring General Daniels said:


> Are WWE releasing every WrestleMania individually now?


Check this out. Apparently, they are re-releasing WM1-15 next week (Tuesday). Here are the covers to each one, as well.

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/cover-art-wrestlemania-dvd-re-releases/36422/


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I was not aware of this.
WrestleMania 5 :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Check this out. Apparently, they are re-releasing WM1-15 next week (Tuesday). Here are the covers to each one, as well.
> 
> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/cover-art-wrestlemania-dvd-re-releases/36422/


Some of those covers :lol

HBK on WM8 :hmm:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I don't care what the cover is, im just happy there individual 
Perhaps other shows will become individuals :hmm:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I suppose they will be unblurred, probably not touched the edited music though :hmm: :grin:

As im sure the matches will be full, i suppose wouldnt mind the first 10 or so...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Who'll be on the WM20 cover when they release it? Eddie? :hmm:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Anyone think these will also be released individually on Blu Ray? Probably not, right? That would be great.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

My money has to be on Goldberg.



> Anyone think these will also be released individually on Blu Ray? Probably not, right? That would be great.


If they got enough for Blu Ray extras I'm sure they will.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ring General Daniels said:


> My money has to be on Goldberg.
> 
> 
> 
> If they got enough for Blu Ray extras I'm sure they will.


That'd be amazing.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

On Blu-Ray would be fantastic. Now that WWE has resolved that issue with WWF panda, will the logos be unblurred? Is that what you were reffering to a few posts ago Zep?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WWE is going to KILL it this year with DVD/Blu Ray. The Bret Dungeon Collection was released on Tuesday. Nitro volume 2 was released last month. These individual WMs, Triple H doc later this year, History of WWE documentary later this year, Best of IYH and Mick Foley doc set in April. Holy Fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't see any reason why they'd blur anything now since they don't have to.

I'm fine with WM 1-14 Tagged Classics. Only thing missing on some of the earlier ones are backstage interviews. And I've seen WM 1 and 3 (got the championship edition of 3)... and well... I ain't missing much . Glad I got WM 15-18 original releases though .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I've got 17-20 on home-recorded VHS, so it'll be nice to upgrade them when they're finally released. On Blu-Ray that is. And pick up a few of the earlier ones that I haven't got.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Can't see any reason why they'd blur anything now since they don't have to.
> 
> I'm fine with WM 1-14 Tagged Classics. Only thing missing on some of the earlier ones are backstage interviews. And I've seen WM 1 and 3 (got the championship edition of 3)... and well... I ain't missing much . *Glad I got WM 15-18 original releases though *.


Ditto 

I quite love owning the original release of The Raging Climax :lmao

I just lack Wrestlemania 16, 25, 27, 28


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Good idea by WWE to release these WMs individually. I think I'm looking more forward to that than this years' WM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got that DVD out. THE RAGIN' CLIMAX. Except there ain't nothing to climax over on this show...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> On Blu-Ray would be fantastic. Now that WWE has resolved that issue with WWF panda, will the logos be unblurred? *Is that what you were reffering to a few posts ago Zep?*


Yeah mate :agree: Just some of the music that'll probably still be edited id imagine...



Big Z said:


> Can't see any reason why they'd blur anything now since they don't have to.
> 
> I'm fine with WM 1-14 Tagged Classics. Only thing missing on some of the earlier ones are backstage interviews. And I've seen WM 1 and 3 (got the championship edition of 3)... and well... I ain't missing much . Glad I got WM 15-18 original releases though .


Me too Cal, have them on TC's too, got WM 16+17 on original release too, never seen WM15 original release though, didn't know you could lol.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Just got that DVD out. THE RAGIN' CLIMAX. Except there ain't nothing to climax over on this show...


I'm pretty sure you climaxed over DeBRA :side:


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

I gotta find my VHS player, I've got several tapes of 2000 WWF shows on them and from what I remember, it was great stuff (naturally, from 2000, I'm not the least bit surprised). I remember one was the August 14th Raw right during the build up to the WWF title match at Summerslam with all the issues between Kurt and Hunter that eventually built up to Kurt kissing Steph. That same episode had Taker get chokeslammed through the ring by Kane. It even had the announcement of the first ever TLC.

And from looking online...apparently someone else has put it up already. Fuck, I felt special for a minute.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> never seen WM15 original release though, didn't know you could lol.


First WWF DVD iirc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arnold Tricky said:


> First WWF DVD iirc.


Indeed it was. I think only WM and SummerSlam got DVD released in 99 right? Either way, got em both .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A time like this makes me so glad I never owned the entire WrestleMania anthology set. Going to have to nab all of these individual releases. WrestleMania V, VII, & VIII :mark:

omg at the thought of XIV on DVD unedited.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Plan on buying a few of those Mania DVDs. Especially XIV since it's the first show I ever saw.

Just got the Lesnar DVD. Too many good matches for me not to finally grab it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

More Rivalries DVD listings revealed:

Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart
CM Punk vs. John Cena
Mankind vs. The Undertaker

The Undertaker vs. Mankind
King of the Ring • June 23, 1996

WWE Championship Match
CM Punk vs. John Cena
Night of Champions • September 16, 2012


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Big Z said:


> More Rivalries DVD listings revealed:
> CM Punk vs. John Cena
> 
> WWE Championship Match
> ...


:mark:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*Chris Benoit vs. Kane (for the WHC) - Bad Blood 2004​*








There wasn't much build for this match, but the basic purpose of the match was that Kane who hated Benoit also wanted his WHC. In one episode of RAW, Benoit tried applying his finishing move "The Crippler Crossface" onto Kane but he overpowered like it was nothing. 

Benoit goes on a rampage and uses Kane's chest as a chopping board, to start the match off. Trying to put Kane away earlier, Benoit goes for the Sharpshooter but Kane easily powers out. The tables have now turned, Kane is now using Benoit's bad neck as a target. He tries to make a comeback with an attempted cross face but Kane out powers again. "Vintage" Benoit as cole likes to say is now german suplexing a 300 pound man all over the ring. Kane out of nowhere hits the chokeslam but only a 2 count is awarded. Benoit wraps his fists around Kane's thick neck and applies the cross face but Kane being the demonic freak he is, Sits up. Benoit now realizing he can't beat Kane with CC, goes for a small package to try and get the sneaky win but Kane kicks out again. Benoit is now forced to change up his tactics and play the waiting game. Benoit eventually won the match but it made Kane look like the "Big Red Machine" many refer to him as. It also cemented a rematch for the next RAW which Benoit won again. This is in my Top 10 Kane matches for sure, Kane had another solid match later that year with HBK at Unforgiven.

*(****)*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Not a fan of Kane/HBK from Unforgiven but other than that, solid review. It's amazing just how well Benoit could wrestle against ANY opponent regardless of size or style. He even had a good match with Viscera in the final Raw of 2004.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Just rewatched Taker/Angle at NWO in 2006 and holy shit. What an amazing match. The ending was sweet. I heard rumors that Taker wanted Angle to end the streak at WM22? I'm sure there are bigger wrestling geeks than me (though I'm a huge wrestling geek) that know the whole story. Anyway, if that NWO match had been at WM 22 it would have been on of the best WM matches ever. I dont really get into star rankings too much but I cant imagine this match being anything less than **** 1/2 but thats just my two cents.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big Z said:


> More Rivalries DVD listings revealed:
> 
> Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart
> CM Punk vs. John Cena
> ...


Fuckin A man. They were doing so well, then we get nabbed with the NOC match, that was just on the Best PPV Matches Set. Why has their Summerslam match never been released dammit!? :cussin:

Odd choices to go with the NOC match (which was a year after their major feud) and the first major match between Taker & Mankind. Here's to hoping we get Jericho/HBK with GAB '08 as a match selection. Austin vs. McMahon will be the obvious #1. Think it'd be cool if they did something like WCW vs. NWO too.

Wouldn't mind seeing a Rockers vs. Hart Foundation match in the Blu Ray extras, or even the Montreal Screwjob match. We'll probably get stuck with one of the triangle ladder/TLC matches for the 23rd time.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> ^ Not a fan of Kane/HBK from Unforgiven but other than that, solid review. It's amazing just how well Benoit could wrestle against ANY opponent regardless of size or style. He even had a good match with Viscera in the final Raw of 2004.


Imagine what kind of match he would have produced with Taker at WM19/21/22. Oh, I can dream. :


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Imagine what kind of match he would have produced with Taker at WM19/21/22. Oh, I can dream. :


Nobody pimps a dream WM match between Benoit/Taker more than me in this thread. Just imagine if it had been booked for WM22. Could've been arguably the greatest Wrestlemania match ever. Unfortunately, those idiots were so intent on pushing the injury prone Mark Henry and what we got was a throwaway casket match with Taker being a total non-factor for the show and Benoit wasted in an average match with JBL.

Alternatively, they could've had it at WM19 (although Benoit was not a main eventer yet but then again, neither was A-Train so whatever) and Angle/Taker for WM22. That way, two subpar matches would've been exchanged for two classics.

Undertaker could have been the undisputed Mr. Wrestlemania had he been given better opponents in some of these shows.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
He will be after his classic with Punk. You're going to love it C2D! 

j/k


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Nobody pimps a dream WM match between Benoit/Taker more than me in this thread. Just imagine if it had been booked for WM22. Could've been arguably the greatest Wrestlemania match ever. Unfortunately, those idiots were so intent on pushing the injury prone Mark Henry and what we got was a throwaway casket match with Taker being a total non-factor for the show and Benoit wasted in an average match with JBL.
> 
> Alternatively, they could've had it at WM19 (although Benoit was not a main eventer yet but then again, neither was A-Train so whatever) and Angle/Taker for WM22. That way, two subpar matches would've been exchanged for two classics
> Undertaker could have been the undisputed Mr. Wrestlemania had he been given better opponents in some of these shows.


McMahon is such a dope, Taker had a great match at WM21 and he could have kept the string going but no. His intent of pushing talentless gaints never dies, I thought he had figured it out by WM19 but no he had give us Henry.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah, It sucks that we could have gotten a Benoit vs Taker or a Taker vs Angle match at WrestleMania 22 but instead, they wasted him in a Casket match with Mark Henry which is a forgettable WrestleMania match. As much as I love Henry, he didn't deserve to face Taker that year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Clique said:


> ^
> He will be after his classic with Punk. You're going to love it C2D!
> 
> j/k


Meh, should've been Lesnar.

Since we're on the topic of Taker and WM, if you could change his matches what would it look like?

I wont bother with anything pre-15 (don't know the rosters and picking Hogan or somebody would've caused the streak to never get going in the first place), but I'll do some changes from 17-onwards.

WM17: Triple H
18: Ric Flair
19: Chris Benoit
20: Kane (just because of the storyline)
21: Randy Orton
22: Kurt Angle
23: Batista
24: Edge
25: Shawn Michaels
26: Shawn Michaels
27: Triple H
28: Chris Jericho
29: Brock Lesnar

For 30, I hope he wrestles John Cena and if he goes for another year after that, Sheamus would be great. Also HIAC is my favorite HHH/Taker match but 3 is overkill IMO.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

17: Triple H
18: Ric Flair 
19: Eddie 
20: Goldberg
21: Orton
22: Benoit 
23: Batista
24: Edge
25: HBK
26: HBK
27: Triple H
28: Sheamus
29: Brock Lesnar
30: John Cena


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Goldberg would been hilarious cause we would have seen Goldberg fail at pressing Taker overhead.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Why would he fail at pressing Taker overhead?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Taker/HBK from WM25 for the second time now. Still as amazing as before and easy ★★★★★. I can only imagine how much better it would've been if I had witnessed it live. The count-out part was perfect storytelling and the Tombstone kick out was perfectly described by JR. ("I just had an out of body experience!")


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Good match but way too over the place for my liking. I also wasn't too fond of the finish either. That fall that Tajiri took from when tries to give Benoit a Hurricanrana from outside the ring looked nasty. Good thing it didn't turn out too bad for him. 

Rating: ****1/2*. On the hunt for more 2003 PPV gems.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Why would he fail at pressing Taker overhead?


He failed to press Kane and Nash. I don't see how Taker would be any different.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

1999 Rejex said:


> Good match but way too over the place for my liking. I also wasn't too fond of the finish either. That fall that Tajiri took from when tries to give Benoit a Hurricanrana from outside the ring looked nasty. Good thing it didn't turn out too bad for him.
> 
> Rating: ****1/2*. On the hunt for more 2003 PPV gems.


I will try my best to list some PPV gems from 2003.

Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy - No Way Out 2003
Battle Royal for the Intercontential Championship - JD 2003
Tajiri & Eddie vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team - JD 2003 - Ladder Match
Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg - Bad Blood 2003
Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels - Bad Blood 2003
Eddie vs. Chris Benoit - Vengeance 2003
Dudley Boyz vs. La Resistance (with Rob Conway) - Unforgiven 2003 - Tables match
Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven 2003
Christian vs. RVD vs. Chris Jericho - Unforgiven 2003
Triple h vs. Goldberg - Unforgiven 2003 (Wasn't that bad)
Chris Benoit vs. A-Train - No Mercy 2003
Eddie vs. Big Show - No Mercy 2003
Undertaker vs. Mr. McMahon - Survivor Series 2003
Shawn Michaels vs. Batista - Armageddon 2003
Randy Orton vs. RVD - Armageddon 2003

These should keep you set for a couple days, I will give you the links to each match in my next post. 2003 = High Match Quality


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Shane is the match from Unforgiven 2003 worth listing. Easy MOTN compared to the rest of the event.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I was gonna list that too, but everyone seems to hate it. So i said "fuck it", It's even in my top 5 LMS matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First news I've heard about that. Generally knew it to be a liked match.

I'm big on it, personally.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

A really good match. I enjoyed this match a lot. Even though the ending is a little anti-climatic, it still didn't take away from how well these two told a story in the ring with Eddie Guerrero playing the underdog throughout the match and The Big Show working on Eddie's injured back. One a side-note, I laughed way harder than I should have at the way Nick Patrick sold the legdrop from Show. 

Rating: ****1/4*. 



TheWrestlingFan said:


> I will try my best to list some PPV gems from 2003.
> 
> Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy - No Way Out 2003
> Battle Royal for the Intercontential Championship - JD 2003
> ...





HayleySabin said:


> Kane vs Shane is the match from Unforgiven 2003 worth listing. Easy MOTN compared to the rest of the event.


(Y)Thanks for that guys. This should keep me busy before the TNA Lockdown PPV. :

As for Kane vs Shane at Unforgiven 2003, I've heard a lot of praising for that match. I'm definitely going to check this match out when I get the chance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good stuff. Really good actually. Liked their entire feud as a matter of fact. Some moments were over the top; WWE after all. Shouldn't surprise anymore. Loads of fun.

Eddie vs Show from No Mercy was solid. Didn't think it was too good, but good enough you know? If it makes sense. Love that show despite being letdown to a great deal by the Taker/Brock match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My Top 20 WWE Matches from 2004:

1. Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - WM20 *(*****)*
2. Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Way Out 2004 *(*****)*
3. Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Backlash 2004 - Hardcore match *(****3/4)*
4. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - RAW 5/3/04 *(****3/4)*
5. JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero (for the WWE Championship) - Judgement Day 2004 *(****1/2)*
6. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (for the WHC) - Summerslam 2004 *(****1/2)*
7. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - Royal Rumble 2004 *(****1/4)*
8. Chris Jericho vs. Christian - WM20 *(****1/4)*
9. John Cena vs. Undertaker - Smackdown 6/24/04 *(****1/4)*
10. Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL - Smackdown 7/15/04 - Steel Cage match *(****)*
11. Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (for the Crusierweight Championship) - No Way Out 2004 *(****)*
12. Chris Benoit vs. Kane (for the WHC) - Bad Blood 2004 *(****)*
13. Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 3/18/2004 *(***3/4)*
14. JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Undertaker vs. Booker T (for the WWE Championship) - Armageddon 2004 *(***3/4)*
15. Team Orton vs. Team Triple H - Survivor Series 2004 *(***1/2)*
16. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane - Unforgiven 2004 *(***1/2)*
17. Randy Orton vs. Shelton Benjamin (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Bad Blood 2004 *(***1/2)*
18. Undertaker vs. Heidenreich - Survivor Series 2004* (***1/4)*
19. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show vs. John Cena - No Way Out 2004 *(***)*
20. Benoit, Michaels, Foley & Benjamin vs. Evolution - RAW 4/12/04 - 6 Man Elimination Match *(***)*

I think the reason why SD lacked in quality matches and shows was because the main man of SD left (Brock) and they transitioned into rebuild mode. Also, SD had wrestlers feuding with wrong opponents. Eddie should have feuded with Taker, Angle should have feuded JBL for the WWE title and John Cena should have feuded with Mysterio for the US title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Having all 3 major feuds be face vs face or heel vs heel? No way that was ever going to happen.

Cena was used well at the time. Only flaw was he and Booker had zero chemistry. Eddie had no reason to feud with Undertaker and his light schedule as Eddie was in the midst of working his big time deals with JBL _(which was his decision to relenquish the championship to him)_ & subsequently Angle following the GM angle. Don't know where Mysterio factored into the United States Championship scene. He was still in the middle of the cruiserweight division during 2004. Plus, WWE attempted to build up Rene Dupree. Kudos to them on it. Too bad it fell to pieces once he lost the tag straps.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Having all 3 major feuds be face vs face or heel vs heel? No way that was ever going to happen.
> 
> Cena was used well at the time. Only flaw was he and Booker had zero chemistry. Eddie had no reason to feud with Undertaker and his light schedule as Eddie was in the midst of working his big time deals with JBL _(which was his decision to relenquish the championship to him)_ & subsequently Angle following the GM angle. Don't know where Mysterio factored into the United States Championship scene. He was still in the middle of the cruiserweight division during 2004. Plus, WWE attempted to build up Rene Dupree. Kudos to them on it. Too bad it fell to pieces once he lost the tag straps.


They could of turned eddie heel, left cena heel and reverted him to face at Summerslam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie was in the middle of program so a random heel turn makes zero sense. 

Cena too. Guy was the most over upper mid-card worker being groomed for the main event scene. Turning him heel in a rapid fashion could have ruined his future for what he was to become.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Once Eddie had finished his program with Bradshaw, A heel turn was very open but they had him pursue the tag team titles and be directionless for the last couple months of 2004. Cena was already over as a heel and TBH he was more appealing as a heel. Face Cena in 2004 felt like a kiss ass and he didn't do any edgy interviews or raps like he did in 2003. Heel Cena was awesome with his "I don't give a shit" attitude, His Raps were freakin awesome, Promos too and he didn't suck up to the fans.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Great matches from 2003:

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit Royal Rumble

Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy No Way Out 

Edge & Chris Benoit vs. Team Angle (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...wn-1-16-2003_sport?search_algo=2#.UTxXChy-mac)

Shawn vs. Y2J Wrestlemania XIX

Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...-2003-part-1_sport?search_algo=2#.UTxXuBy-mac)

Pretty lazy so I'll just leave it at that.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I really must see Jericho/Hardy today, can't remember that match at all


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Once Eddie had finished his program with Bradshaw, A heel turn was very open but they had him pursue the tag team titles and be directionless for the last couple months of 2004. Cena was already over as a heel and TBH he was more appealing as a heel. Face Cena in 2004 felt like a kiss ass and he didn't do any edgy interviews or raps like he did in 2003. Heel Cena was awesome with his "I don't give a shit" attitude, His Raps were freakin awesome, Promos too and he didn't suck up to the fans.


Once his program with JBL was done it was immediately back to the Angle feud...there was not a single time open there. Only time there was is when his program with Mysterio happened. Filled any void possible. Thus enter heel turn.

Stuff about Cena is all subjective. His 2004 run was great in terms of getting him over to a mega level. Guy was the biggest star on Smackdown NOT in the main event picture. By the time the year was over he needed to be away from the US Championship and gunning for the WWE. He got over as a face in a big way. Raps included too. As WrestleMania 20, Judgment Day, Great American Bash, etc will all show.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HIGH KENNY IS BACK


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW PPV CRAM SESSION? Or for as long as the HIGH lasts.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

the 2000 PPV pack torrent didnt work 

ive got a presentation tomorrow too :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUCK

Nothing like having a night to remember before having some major responsibility to follow up on. Maybe '97 will work for you instead.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> My Top 20 WWE Matches from 2004:
> 
> 1. Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - WM20 *(*****)*
> 2. Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Way Out 2004 *(*****)*
> ...


Good list. I need to re-watch that Benoit/HBK world title match from Raw soon since I haven't seen it in years.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> FUCK
> 
> Nothing like having a night to remember before having some major responsibility to follow up on. Maybe '97 will work for you instead.


theres always youtube

i feel like watching a 99 ppv


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Good list. I need to re-watch that Benoit/HBK world title match from Raw soon since I haven't seen it in years.


I would love to see your list.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*obligatory Spring Stampede 1999 plug*

You can try your luck for some matches via youtube/dailymotion. Only know Halloween Havoc '99 is up on youtube. Do think you said you watched it recently, though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

theres blitzkreig vs juventud, booker t vs scott steiner and goldberg vs nash


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1. Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - WM20 (****3/4)
2. Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Way Out 2004 (****3/4)
3. Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Backlash 2004 - Hardcore match (****1/4)
4. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - RAW 5/3/04 (***3/4)
5. JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero (for the WWE Championship) - Judgement Day 2004 (****1/2)
6. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (for the WHC) - Summerslam 2004 (****)
7. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - Royal Rumble 2004 (**)
8. Chris Jericho vs. Christian - WM20 (****1/2)
9. John Cena vs. Undertaker - Smackdown 6/24/04 (***1/2)
10. Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL - Smackdown 7/15/04 - Steel Cage match (***1/2)
11. Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (for the Crusierweight Championship) - No Way Out 2004 (don't remember)
12. Chris Benoit vs. Kane (for the WHC) - Bad Blood 2004 (****)
13. Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 3/18/2004 (***3/4)
14. JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Undertaker vs. Booker T (for the WWE Championship) - Armageddon 2004 (***1/4)
15. Team Orton vs. Team Triple H - Survivor Series 2004 (don't remember)
16. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane - Unforgiven 2004 (***)
17. Randy Orton vs. Shelton Benjamin (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Bad Blood 2004 (don't remember)
18. Undertaker vs. Heidenreich - Survivor Series 2004 (***3/4)
19. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show vs. John Cena - No Way Out 2004 (***)
20. Benoit, Michaels, Foley & Benjamin vs. Evolution - RAW 4/12/04 - 8 Man Elimination Match (****)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BLITZKRIEG VS JUVI :mark: :mark:

Booker vs Steiner isn't worth your time. Bad. Unless you're solely in the mood for some WCW.

Goldberg vs Nash wasn't like the first where it was actually decent. Shorter this time around and what you'd expect.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

and theres HAK vs big bam bigelow :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match is AWESOME.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

really?

im watching this now






Kidman (c) vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera
Kidman (c) vs. Eddy Guerrero
Norman Smiley vs. Prince Iaukea
Perry Saturn vs. Ernest Miller
Brian Adams and Scott Norton vs. Fit Finlay and Jerry Flynn
Konnan (c) vs. Chris Jericho
Ric Flair vs. Eric Bischoff 
Diamond Dallas Page vs. The Giant
Goldberg(c) vs. Kevin Nash


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I would love to see your list.


I'll give my ratings for your list. Might put mine down later.

1. Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - WM20 *******
2. Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Way Out 2004 *****1/2*
3. Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Backlash 2004 - Hardcore match *****1/2*
4. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - RAW 5/3/04 *(Haven't seen in ages, may watch today. Remember it being top notch though*)
5. JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero (for the WWE Championship) - Judgement Day 2004 *****1/4*
6. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (for the WHC) - Summerslam 2004 ******
7. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - Royal Rumble 2004 ******
8. Chris Jericho vs. Christian - WM20 ******
9. John Cena vs. Undertaker - Smackdown 6/24/04 ****3/4*
10. Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL - Smackdown 7/15/04 - Steel Cage match *(again, haven't seen this in a while)*
11. Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (for the Crusierweight Championship) - No Way Out 2004 ****1/2*
12. Chris Benoit vs. Kane (for the WHC) - Bad Blood 2004 ****3/4*
13. Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 3/18/2004 ****3/4*
14. JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Undertaker vs. Booker T (for the WWE Championship) - Armageddon 2004 ****1/4*
15. Team Orton vs. Team Triple H - Survivor Series 2004 ****3/4*
16. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane - Unforgiven 2004 ****1/2*
17. Randy Orton vs. Shelton Benjamin (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Bad Blood 2004 ****1/2*
18. Undertaker vs. Heidenreich - Survivor Series 2004 *****
19. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show vs. John Cena - No Way Out 2004 ***3/4*
20. Benoit, Michaels, Foley & Benjamin vs. Evolution - RAW 4/12/04 - 6 Man Elimination Match ****1/2*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hak/Bigelow is tremendous. Hell, WCW's hardcore title scene from late 99 onwards was awesome for the most part. BAM BAM. HAK (he sucks but he could do some crazy shit). SCREAMING NORMAL SMILEY. MENG. TERRY FUCKING FUNK.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what do you think of the event above before i watch it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some people have a LOT of love for the whole "Kidman (c) vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera" and "Kidman (c) vs. Eddy Guerrero" matches and angle. I didn't quite get that love but did enjoy both. I think Andy loved the shit out of it all though.

Never seen anything else on the event aside from the main event. Its pretty bad, so you'll have fun .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HE ENDS THE STREAK


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@AlienBountyHunter - Great ratings, I think i'm being super generous on my star ratings. Might have to knock it down a couple notches on my next list, BAM!!!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well ratings are subjective and each person is going to have slightly different ones to others. Keep them that high if you like. (Y)

Good list though, reminded me of some matches that I haven't seen in a while that I should take a look at again.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Well ratings are subjective and each person is going to have slightly different ones to others. Keep them that high if you like. (Y)
> 
> Good list though, reminded me of some matches that I haven't seen in a while that I should take a look at again.


Thanks, I plan on doing 2005 later. That Edge vs. Eddie - No DQ review was boss, It definitely ranks somewhere in my top 15 SD matches.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Is their a match where a guy with a mask or facepaint get's dragged by another masked figure from under the ring? It was the first ever wrestling match i watched and i think it was from WCW.

Any help would be nice.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Hak/Bigelow is tremendous. Hell, WCW's hardcore title scene from late 99 onwards was awesome for the most part. BAM BAM. HAK (he sucks but he could do some crazy shit). SCREAMING NORMAL SMILEY. MENG. TERRY FUCKING FUNK.


what about BRIAN KNOBS & FINLAY?



King Kenny said:


> what do you think of the event above before i watch it?


Don't remember it being too good pardon the first two matches and a main event that was decent opposed to bad. Jericho might have carried Konnan to something. Doubtful b/c Konnan is shit.

lol @ Finlay's partner being Jerry Flynn. Awful. Finlay vs Norton would have been SO much better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Is their a match where a guy with a mask or facepaint get's dragged by another masked figure from under the ring? It was the first ever wrestling match i watched and i think it was from WCW.
> 
> Any help would be nice.


Vampiro did so to Sting at Spring Stampede 2000. The workers in AlienBountyHunter's sig.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> 1. Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - WM20 (****3/4)
> 2. Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Way Out 2004 (****3/4)
> 3. Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Backlash 2004 - Hardcore match (****1/4)
> 4. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WHC) - RAW 5/3/04 (***3/4)
> ...


Pretty good ratings Cal, some are close 'nuff to mine actually. Taker/Reich at ***3/4 is overkill though 

And speaking of lists, here's Take 2 on me posting here Part 2 on my Top 200 WWE matches ever
*(WARNING: You cannot watch it if you live in UK or Gibraltar)*:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Vampiro did so to Sting at Spring Stampede 2000. The workers in AlienBountyHunter's sig.


Yeah, it was Sting vs Scott Steiner and Vampiro came up from under it towards the end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed. The fall of the Brothers in Paint. New Blood tore everything apart. Friendships, marriages, & champions away from other promotions. What a wild time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> what about BRIAN KNOBS & FINLAY?


I try to not think about knobs . Kinda forget about Finlay because I'm never sure how long he lasted before his leg got fucked (thanks to knobs I believe).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks alot guys, I'm not a big WCW guy.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My Top 20 WWE Matches from 2006:

1. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker (for the WHC) - No Way Out 2006 *(*****)*
2. Mick Foley, Edge and Lita vs. Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer and Beulah McGillicutty - ECW One Night Stand 2006 *(****3/4)*
3. Edge vs. Mick Foley - Wrestlemania 22 *(****1/2)*
4. Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor vs. The Hardy Boyz - Armageddon 2006 - Four-Way Ladder Match *(****1/2)*
5. Mick Foley vs. Ric Flair - Summerslam 2006 - "I Quit" Match *(****1/2)*
6. Chris Benoit vs. Finlay - Judgement Day 2006 *(****1/4)*
7. Rob Van Dam vs. John Cena (for the WWE Championship) - ECW One Night Stand 2006 *(****1/4)*
8. Rob Van Dam vs. Hardcore Holly - ECW 9/26/06 *(****1/4)*
9. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - Backlash 2006 *(****)*
10. Big Show vs. Ric Flair - ECW 7/11/06 *(****)*
11. Ric Flair vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - RAW *(****)*
12. Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - No Way Out 2006* (****)*
13. John Cena vs. Triple H (for the WWE Championship) - Wrestlemania 22 *(****)*
14. Rey Mysterio vs. Sabu (for the WHC) - ECW One Night Stand 2006 *(***3/4)*
15. Rob Van Dam vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - Vengeance 2006 *(***3/4)*
16. Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy - Armageddon 2006 - Last Ride Match *(***1/2)*
17. John Cena vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - Unforgiven 2006 - TLC Match *(***1/2)*
18. Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker - Smackdown 3/3/06* (***1/4)*
19. John Cena vs. Edge - Raw 10/2/06 - Steel Cage Match *(***1/4)*
20. John Cena vs. Sabu - Vengeance 2006 - Extreme Lumberjack Match* (***)*




> *Honorable Mentions:*
> Johnny Nitro vs. Jeff Hardy (for the Intercontinental Championship) - Unforgiven 2006
> Rob Van Dam vs. Kurt Angle - ECW 6/27/06
> Jeff Hardy vs. Johnny Nitro - Raw 11/20/06 - Ladder Match
> ...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HBK/McMahon was way better then Cena/Sabu


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Review on the new Bret Hart DVD: - http://www.wwedvdnews.com/review-bret-hart-dungeon-collection-dvd-blu-ray/36251/


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> *In My Opinion*, HBK/McMahon was way better then Cena/Sabu


Fixed,


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm almost halfway through 2006 but I doubt any match will top Angle/Taker for me. You need to give Mysterio vs Orton from SD 7/4 a chance, though.

I'll try a top 20 for 2004 while here:

1. Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XX) - ★★★★★
2. Eddie Guerrero vs Brock Lesnar (No Way Out) - ★★★★¾
3. Randy Orton vs Mick Foley (Backlash) - ★★★★½
4. Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H (Backlash) - ★★★★½
5. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (Judgment Day) - ★★★★½
6. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (SummerSlam) - ★★★★½
7. Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (Raw 3/5) - ★★★★¼
8. Chris Benoit vs Kane (Bad Blood) - ★★★★
9. Chris Benoit vs Triple H (Raw 26/7) - ★★★★
10. Undertaker vs John Cena (Smackdown 24/6) - ★★★★
11. Randy Orton vs Edge (Raw 13/12) - ★★★★
12. Randy Orton vs Edge (Vengeance) - ★★★★
13. Chris Benoit/Mick Foley/Shawn Michaels/Shelton Benjamin vs Evolution (Raw 12/4) - ★★★¾
14. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (Raw 16/8) - ★★★¾
15. Chris Benoit vs Triple H (Vengeance) - ★★★¾
16. Undertaker vs Heidenreich (Survivor Series) - ★★★¾
17. Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (The Great American Bash) - ★★★½
18. Team Orton vs Team HHH (Survivor Series) - ★★★½
19. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Unforgiven) - ★★★½
20. Kurt Angle vs John Cena vs Big Show (No Way Out) - ★★★½

Probably some matches I've forgotten but a GREAT year that I need to re-experience (Raw only probably).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I can't stand Edge/Orton from Vengeance 2004? Rest hold after Rest hold, Bored the fuck outta me. I like you though and respect your opinion.

Haven't watch that Mysterio vs Orton SD match, Is it better than their NWO encounter.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Another good list, WrestlingFan. Have you done 2005 yet? 

I'll throw my ratings at the 2006 list in a few minutes, too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Another good list, WrestlingFan. Have you done 2005 yet?
> 
> I'll throw my ratings at the 2006 list in a few minutes, too.


I decided not to do 2005 due to the amount of quality matches in that year and trying to rank one ahead of another, would literally make my head explode.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I can't stand Edge/Orton from Vengeance 2004? Rest hold after Rest hold, Bored the fuck outta me. I like you though and respect your opinion.
> 
> Haven't watch that Mysterio vs Orton SD match, Is it better than their NWO encounter.


Well, it needs some patience but I think they did the job well with the restholds use. Still prefer their Raw match in December.

Reu/Orton from SD is slightly better than NWO IMO. Both are great, though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I can't stand Edge/Orton from Vengeance 2004? Rest hold after Rest hold, Bored the fuck outta me. I like you though and respect your opinion.


I watched and reviewed Edge vs Orton from Vengance 2004 not to long ago, gave it ****1/2*. Went on too long for my liking, and there was a lot of rest holds, but there were good points of the match that I liked. 

And on the topic of HBK/Undertaker matches that was discussed some pages ago, I prefer their WrestleMania 26 match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I agree about Orton/Edge at Vengeance being a little too long. A good match but the length definitely hurt it. I'd have it at about ****1/2* aswell.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I borrowed 'The Monday night war' DVD from my friend yesterday. Anyone seen it?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> I borrowed 'The Monday night war' DVD from my friend yesterday. Anyone seen it?


A great DVD, Really goes in-depth about the whole WCW/WWF war and has interviews with the likes of Eric Bischof, Jim Cornette, Vince McMahon etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oliver-94 said:


> I borrowed 'The Monday night war' DVD from my friend yesterday. Anyone seen it?


One of my early DVD purchases back in the day. Fun to watch, but extremely bias (more so than usual). They weren't nearly as capable back then as they are now with the documentaries, but it's still a good watch imo. Couple of good matches included too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Rating WrestlingFan's 'Best of 2006' list:

1. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker (for the WHC) - No Way Out 2006 *******
2. Mick Foley, Edge and Lita vs. Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer and Beulah McGillicutty - ECW One Night Stand 2006 *****1/4*
3. Edge vs. Mick Foley - Wrestlemania 22 *****1/2*
4. Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor vs. The Hardy Boyz - Armageddon 2006 - Four-Way Ladder Match *****1/2*
5. Mick Foley vs. Ric Flair - Summerslam 2006 - "I Quit" Match ******
6. Chris Benoit vs. Finlay - Judgement Day 2006 *(Can't recall, will have to watch again.)*
7. Rob Van Dam vs. John Cena (for the WWE Championship) - ECW One Night Stand 2006 *****1/4*
8. Rob Van Dam vs. Hardcore Holly - ECW 9/26/06 ******
9. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - Backlash 2006 ****3/4*
10. Big Show vs. Ric Flair - ECW 7/11/06 ****1/2*
11. Ric Flair vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - RAW ****3/4*
12. Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio - No Way Out 2006 ****3/4*
13. John Cena vs. Triple H (for the WWE Championship) - Wrestlemania 22* ***1/2*
14. Rey Mysterio vs. Sabu (for the WHC) - ECW One Night Stand 2006 ****3/4*
15. Rob Van Dam vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - Vengeance 2006 ****3/4*
16. Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy - Armageddon 2006 - Last Ride Match ****1/2*
17. John Cena vs. Edge (for the WWE Championship) - Unforgiven 2006 - TLC Match ****1/2*
18. Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker - Smackdown 3/3/06 ****1/2*
19. John Cena vs. Edge - Raw 10/2/06 - Steel Cage Match* ****
20. John Cena vs. Sabu - Vengeance 2006 - Extreme Lumberjack Match *****


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I still haven't seen that ONS 6 person tag. I guess I have to check it out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I am only half way into Raw 06, and haven't started on ECW 06 yet, but here's my list based on SD and what I've seen of Raw so far:

1. The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****3/4 - 8
2. Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown January 13th 2006 - ****1/2 - 7
3. The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - Smackdown March 3rd 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
4. Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
5. Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
6. Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - WrestleMania #1 Contender Spot - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
7. Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - King of the Ring Qualifying Match - Smackdown May 5th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
8. The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nürnberg, Germany 08/11/2006 - ****1/4 - 6
9. Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - No Holds Barred - Smackdown January 27th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
10. Mr Kennedy Vs The Undertaker - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
11. William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - **** - 5
12. Shelton Benjamin Vs Rob Van Dam - Intercontinental Championship & Money in the Bank Briefcase Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ****
13. Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - **** - 5
14. Batista Vs King Booker Vs Finlay - WHC - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - **** - 5
15. The Undertaker & Kane Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown December 22nd 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
16. Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - WHC - Smackdown April 7th 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
17. Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown March 24th 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
18. Triple H Vs Ric Flair - Raw 06/02/2006 - ***3/4
19. Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC WWE Title Match - Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
20. MNM Vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - WWE Tag Team Titles - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ***3/4 - 4

Raw doesn't get much of a look it so far :lmao.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Oh shizzam nickles, I forgot Taker/Khali LMS from Smackdown. It's at ****1/2* for me, Taker actually managed to get a good match out of the Gigantic Lump. How about your rating on the match, C2D and AlienBountyHunter?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> I borrowed 'The Monday night war' DVD from my friend yesterday. Anyone seen it?


Enjoyed it myself, like Cal said a couple of nice bonus matches too, like the HBK/Austin vs Owen/Bulldog 

You should also watch the Legends Of Wrestling: Monday Night Wars episode too if you havnt already...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Oh shizzam nickles, I forgot Taker/Khali LMS from Smackdown. It's at ****1/2* for me, Taker actually managed to get a good match out of the Gigantic Lump. How about your rating on the match, C2D and AlienBountyHunter?


Not there yet so no rating from me at this point. I'll just wait until I reach August or whenever it took place instead of rush my way into it. Right now I'm a week away from Vengeance so it shouldn't take very long.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> 8. The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nürnberg, Germany 08/11/2006 - ****1/4 - 6


Any chance you could upload that match Cal? Dont think its on YT/DM


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thank you Big Z for reminding me of Benoit/Orton No Holds Barred from SD. Awesome match, Slightly better than their SS match IMO. If i had to change my list, I would put it at number 12 and knock Cena/Sabu off the list.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Chris Jericho vs. Jeff Hardy- No Way Out 2003​*



I don't remember too much of the backstory to this match happening (wasn't really watching Raw that much in 2003 because of how awful it was) but I do remember Jericho and Hardy having a little feud going on Raw with Christian and Shawn Michaels involved. This match started off slow at the start of the match but they would eventually get things going by increasing the pace with some good counters by both men. Jeff Hardy ducks Jericho's splash to the corner-rope, resulting in him falling out of the ring. Jeff Hardy hits Jericho with a Whisper in the Wind from outside the ring. Hardy then throws Jericho back inside the ring and hits another high-flying move on Jericho. Hardy covers Jericho but Jericho kicks out a 2. Hardy has the upperhand in this match for a bit until he gets thrown onto steel steps by Jericho after Jeff Hardy's attempt at doing a high-flying move from off the barricade. These two have a good back-and-forth with each other but it picks up even more when they start to hit their finishers on one another. The last 5 minutes of this match are really heating up with both men not giving an inch until Jericho locks on another Walls of Jericho on a beaten down Hardy. Jericho scores the win with Jeff Hardy submitting to the Walls of Jericho leaving the Montreal fans happy with the finish. 

Good match giving Jericho the win to make him look strong as he would feud with Shawn Michaels leading to a match between them at WrestleMania XIX. Although it wasn't anything special, it was still a good, back-and-forth match. 

Rating: *****. 

Up next, the Raw Battle Royal for the Intercontinental Championship - Judgement Day 2003.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, how would you rate every PPV Main Event from 2012?

My ratings:
RR Match - ***
Cena/Kane - **3/4
Rock/Cena - ****1/4
Lesnar/Cena - *****
Cena/Laurinaitis - DUD
Cena/Show - **1/4
Raw MITB - ***1/2
HHH/Lesnar - ****
Punk/Cena - ****1/2
Punk/Ryback - **1/2
Punk/Cena/Ryback - ***1/4
Cena/Ziggler - ****


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Great Review, 1999 Rejex. Are you going through the list i made and reviewing each match?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Great Review, 1999 Rejex. Are you going through the list i made and reviewing each match?


Thanks man. 

And yeah, I thought i'd be easier that way.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> Just out of curiosity, how would you rate every PPV Main Event from 2012?
> 
> My ratings:
> RR Match - ***
> ...


1. Cena/Lesnar ****1/4
2. Cena/Punk ****	1/4
3. Cena/ziggler ****
4. Cena/Rock ****
5. Punk/cena/ryback ***3/4
6. RAW MITB ***3/4
7. RR match ***1/2
8. HHH/Lesnar ***
9. Cena/Kane ***
10. Punk/Ryback **3/4
11. Cena/Show **
12. Cena/Laurinatius 0


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Another ECW Gem from 2006: Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman vs. Test and Mike Knox - ECW 8/1/06 - Extreme Rules Match


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The most hilarious match of 2006:

Batista/Big Show, ECW- Ballroom.

The crowd are just so ruthless towards both :lmao


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

2012 PPV Main Events:

RR Match - ****1/4*
Cena/Kane - ***1/2*
Rock/Cena - *****
Lesnar/Cena - *****3/4*
Cena/Laurinaitis - *DUD*
Cena/Show - ****
Raw MITB - ****1/2*
HHH/Lesnar - ******
Punk/Cena - *****1/4*
Punk/Ryback - ***3/4*
Punk/Cena/Ryback - *****
Cena/Ziggler - ****3/4*



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Oh shizzam nickles, I forgot Taker/Khali LMS from Smackdown. It's at ****1/2* for me, Taker actually managed to get a good match out of the Gigantic Lump. How about your rating on the match, C2D and AlienBountyHunter?


I'd have it at ****1/4*.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

ATF said:


> Just out of curiosity, how would you rate every PPV Main Event from 2012?
> 
> My ratings:
> RR Match - ***
> ...


1. Cena/Lesnar - **** 3/4 
2. Cena/Punk **** 2/4 
3. Cena/Rock **** 1/4 
4. Brock/HHH ****
5. Cena/Ziggler *** 3/4 
6. Punk/Cena/Ryback *** 3/4
7. Cena/Kane ** 2/4 
8. Punk/Ryback **
9. Cena/Laurinatis - DUD 

Didn't watch MiTB and I was at RR so I may be a bit biased with my rating, lol.

EDIT- Forgot Cena/Show at NWO, * 2/4. Just terrible.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> The most hilarious match of 2006:
> 
> Batista/Big Show, ECW- Ballroom.
> 
> The crowd are just so ruthless towards both :lmao


*CHANGE THE CHANNEL!!*

lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> The most hilarious match of 2006:
> 
> Batista/Big Show, ECW- Ballroom.
> 
> The crowd are just so ruthless towards both :lmao


Haha gotta love that ECW crowd. The Hammersmith Ballroom isn't the place to put on Batista vs Big Show that's for sure.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2012 Main Events

Royal Rumble Match (RR 12) : *** 1/4*
John Cena vs Kane (Ambulance Match ; EC 12) : *****
John Cena vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : *****
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules ; ER 12) : *******
John Cena vs Johnny Ace (OTL 12) : ** 1/2*
John Cena vs Big Show (Cage ; NWO 12) : *** 1/4*
RAW MITB (MITB 12) : *****
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H (SS 12) : ***** 1/2*
John Cena vs CM Punk (NOC 12) : ***** 1/4*
CM Punk vs Ryback (HIAC ; HIAC 12) : *****
CM Punk vs John Cena vs Ryback (SS 12) : *****
John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler (Ladder ; TLC 12) : *** 3/4*

Fairly good year, got one of the greatest matches ever as a main event...AND CENA VS JOHNNY IS FUN AS FUCK.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2012 PPV Main Events:

RR Match - **
Cena/Kane - **
Rock/Cena - **1/2
Lesnar/Cena - *****
Cena/Laurinaitis - *
Cena/Show - **3/4
Raw MITB - ***1/4
HHH/Lesnar - ***1/2
Punk/Cena - ****1/2 :mark:
Punk/Ryback - *
Punk/Cena/Ryback - **
Cena/Ziggler - **1/2

& for 2013

Rock/Punk - DUD
Rock/Punk II - *


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Not a fan of the Rock/Punk series I see? I didn't see Elimination Chamber, but I thought Royal Rumble was for sure better than Wrestlemania XXVIII


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

2013 so far- 
Punk/Rock - *** 3/4. I enjoyed the match aside from the awful finish.
Punk/Rock II- It's either a DUD or one *. Either way, it was bad and really boring. Those restholds


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I've been over my thoughts of Rock/Punk before and everyone knows i hate both matches with a passion 

Eh, at least Cena/Rock had a tad of structure to their match and the end was pretty nicely done compared to the FUCKERY of Rock/Punk. Ohh it SHOULD have been so much better, i was looking forward to the Rumble match too


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Rock/punk SUCKED. You know it's bad when cena/rock is better than both of their matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that the astronomical expectations and excitement I had for that show just makes it ten times worse for me. I bought the show on DVD and I can't even look at the fucking cover because I know what I'm in for when I pop the DVD in .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

MOTN for this years Rumble was THE FUCKING TAG MATCH and that was *1/2

Rumble was good for 2 minutes till number 3 and onwards came into the ring.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk/Rock RR - ****
Punk/Rock EC - ****

Meh.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

If Cena/Rock was 15 minutes instead of 30-35 minutes, it would have been alot better, too. If they are smart enough to have the match in the 15 minute range this year, it'll be a better match than most expect.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

with entrances and their pre match video promo this year Cena/Rock is going to take up the final hour and half


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> If Cena/Rock was 15 minutes instead of 30-35 minutes, it would have been alot better, too. If they are smart enough to have the match in the 15 minute range this year, it'll be a better match than most expect.


Yeah, I agree. The length hurt them. Hopefully people backstage will have noticed Rock not being able to perform for that long and cut the match length down this year.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> If Cena/Rock was 15 minutes instead of 30-35 minutes, it would have been alot better, too. If they are smart enough to have the match in the 15 minute range this year, it'll be a better match than most expect.


Agreed with this for the most part, even though I personally did like Rock/Cena last year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh, I sorta dug the Rumble match. Though Rock/Punk I was the biggest letdown since HHH/Orton at 25. II (and the whole EC PPV) was WAAAY better imo.

2012 was, like KOK said, fairly good, but the GOAT year for Main Events has to be 2004:
- RR Match 04
- Lesnar/Eddie
- The two HHH/HBK/Benoit matches
- Eddie/JBL
- HHH/HBK HIAC (underrated imo)
- Benoit/Orton
- Flair/Orton Cage
- Team HHH/Team Orton
- JBL/Taker/Eddie/Booker


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

How long do you guys think they'll give the announced matches so far each?

Cena/Rock: 25mins
Trips/Brock: 20mins
Taker/Punk: 10-15mins
Swagger/Del Rio: 10mins max


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER :HHH2.

The Big THREE will get 20+ minutes each, fully expecting Punk-Taker to happen halfways as the first half main event.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, I almost forget as each WM approaches, but WM is an hour longer than the other PPVs. So much for them doing the right thing and only giving the Cena/Rock match 15 minutes. Ah well.

Can still be an alright match, but who knows.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> Meh, I sorta dug the Rumble match. Though Rock/Punk I was the biggest letdown since HHH/Orton at 25. II (and the whole EC PPV) was WAAAY better imo.
> 
> 2012 was, like KOK said, fairly good, but the GOAT year for Main Events has to be 2004:
> - RR Match 04
> ...




1. HHH/HBK/Benoit WM
2. Jbl/Eddie
3. HHH/HBK/Benoit 
4. RR 
5. Team HHH/Orton
6. HBK/HHH HIAC
7. Orton/Flair
8. Orton/Benoit


Have to rewatch then others. I found Orton/Benoit disappointing. Anybody else?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did anyone ever get the 'Exclusive' edition of The Best of WCW Clash of the Champions when it came out? It had two bonus matches on it & I believe it was a Walmart exclusive, but I've heard people say Best Buy too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena/ROCK: 19 minutes (with the Punk matches, they went barely around the 20 minute mark, so hopefully they learn their lesson this time)
HHH/BORK: 20 minutes
Taker/Punk: 22 minutes
Swagger/Del Rio: 10 minutes

And 2012 sucked. BROCK/Cena is not enough to save it from being a dreadful year.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> How long do you guys think they'll give the announced matches so far each?
> 
> Cena/Rock: 25mins
> Trips/Brock: 20mins
> ...




There is NO WAY taker/punk doesn't go under 20 minutes. Wrestlemania is 4 hours. 


Cena/Rock: 25 mins
Brock/HHH: 25 mins
Punk/Taker: 25 mins


Swagger/Del Rio and Henry/ryback will both be under 10 minutes.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> How long do you guys think they'll give the announced matches so far each?
> 
> Cena/Rock: 25mins
> Trips/Brock: 20mins
> ...


Cena/Rock: 20 mins
HHH/Brock: 25 mins
Taker/Punk: 25 mins
Swagger/Del Rio: 15 mins

Perhaps a little longer for HHH/Brock? Maybe.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think 2001 pushes 2004 close for PPV main events:

RR '01
Austin/Rock
HHH & Austin/Taker & Kane
Austin/Taker
Rock/Booker (Angle/Austin was much better but didn't main event )
Angle/Austin/RVD
Team WWF/Team Alliance

Plus, Rock/Angle was good, Austin/Benoit/Jericho was underwhelming but still watachable, and we had the 3-match Undisputed Title main event at Vengeance.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock/Cena - 20 mins
Punk/Taker - 20 mins
Trips/Brock - 22 mins
Swagger/Del Rio - 18 mins

plz

Just got free tickets to the SD after Mania.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I think 2001 pushes 2004 close for PPV main events:
> 
> RR '01
> Austin/Rock
> ...


Oh yeah, forgot about 01. Shame on me for counting Insurrextion's Handicap, because if not the year would be essentially perfect.

If not for Sid/Taker, true GOAT would be 1997:
- HBK/Sid (solid)
- Final Four FF4
- Austin/Bret RotT
- CS 10-Man Tag
- Bret/Taker SSlam
- HBK/Taker GZ
- HBK/Bulldog
- Taker/HBK HIAC
- Montreal Screwjob


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I really don't want Rock/Cena to go 30 minutes again. Like, I REALLY don't want that to happen again. 15-18 minutes is good for them.

I also wouldn't mind Taker/Punk going up for the first main event of the evening. Let them have time to do the damn thing. They shouldn't kill the crowd too much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> I really don't want Rock/Cena to go 30 minutes again. Like, I REALLY don't want that to happen again. 15-18 minutes is good for them.
> 
> I also wouldn't mind Taker/Punk going up for the first main event of the evening. Let them have time to do the damn thing. They shouldn't kill the crowd too much.


Exactly mate, Taker/Punk better be given plenty of damn time


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Taker/Punk will be before Lesnar/HHH I'm sure. Hopefully they can cut some time off Rock/Cena and give it to Taker/Punk and we can get a classic from them.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I;m not too worried about Taker/Punk getting enough time, especially if they go on early in the show. I'm hoping for The Shield's match to get a good amount of shine in. This card is going to be kind of tight this year. I don't know why WWE doesn't just do a multi-man ladder match for the IC, US, or Tag Titles to get more guys on the card. They took MITB away but that could be a nice addition.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> This card is going to be kind tight this year.


Well they could at least take out most of the filler shit (like music performances etc)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Well they could at least take out most of the filler shit (like music performances etc)


Oh jeez I hope there's no music performance this year. It's a wrestling show not a concert! :cussin:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Oh jeez I hope there's no music performance this year. It's a wrestling show not a concert! :cussin:


Indeed, i understand its a big event, an extravaganza an all the rest of it, but at the end of day its supposed to be a wrestling event (yeah, wrestling probably still is a 'dirty' word).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena-Barrett from HIAC 2010 is AWESOME. **** 3/4*.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I reckon Trips/Brock will go on first actually. Don't know why, I just have a feeling. Rock/Cena will close obviously with Taker/Punk in between. As for match lengths, I reckon they'll all get about the same as each other but hopefully Rock/Cena isn't as long as the first. Knock 8-10 mins off and it's going to be much better. I don't see any long music performances this time around either which will give them more time I guess.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena-Barrett from HIAC 2010 is AWESOME. **** 3/4*.


Never seen anything from this show expect for Orton/Fella which was okay *****, may need to d/load this show.

Also how is Taker/Kane HIAC, that's the right year and event right? :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's fucking terrible, about to watch it again right now :lol. 

It's THE UNDERTAKER VS KANE INSIDE THE CELL, that alone should make it worth watching.

EDIT : On Orton/Fella, It's a decent match but I honestly can't stand it in the slightest. I'd go *** 3/4* on it but honestly that might be too high for my liking. Some of the things that happen in that match are really stupid and the gimmick makes no sense here, but take away the cell and it's an easy **** 1/2* for sure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena-Barrett from HIAC 2010 is AWESOME. **** 3/4*.


The whole HIAC '10 PPV is awesome (except for the last two matches) 

Now doing *PART 3* of my Top 200, this time without any global blockings :side:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I believe Del Rio vs swagger will start the show. 

So you guys think we'll see ziggler/Jericho at mania? I seriously can't see either guy do anything else.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I don't think Ziggles will get onto the card this year bar a cash in after the WHC match.

He'll "steal" the show, even when he wasn't going to be on it in the first place


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, hopefully we'll see it for the WHC later in the show.

Let's be real here, Jericho came back for SOMETHING other than just to wrestle a few matches with no obvious direction. They had to have a plan.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> I don't think Ziggles will get onto the card this year bar a cash in after the WHC match.
> 
> He'll "steal" the show, even when he wasn't going to be on it in the first place




There's no way he's not on the card, that would be a terrible decision by wwe


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love that triple threat submission match from HIAC '10. Fun all around.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> There's no way he's not on the card, that would be a terrible decision by wwe


It's 4 weeks till Mania and he has literally got nothing going on.

Unless he has a throwaway match that means nothing like he has since TLC then i don't see him getting on the card.

Also this way could work with how he's been cutting promos about being left off of PPV cards (EC & WM) so he shows everyone by cashing in and forcing him to "steal" the show.

EDIT: Also WWE has it's 3 big money matches set (Cena/Rock, Trips/Brock & Taker/Punk) so i honestly don't think they care about the rest of the show and the matches. Maybe bar a Shield match. The rest will just be thrown together, look at Ryback & Henry.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I just remembered that Trips/Taker at 28 took almost an hour of show time with the entrances, cell lowering, the match, and the post match stuff. 

Rock/Cena (match) shouldn't go longer than 15-18 minutes. Brock and Trips can kick each other's ass for as long they want. Punk/Taker should get about the same as Rock/Cena, maybe a little more. That probably depends on Taker and his body.

As long as we don't MGK rapping about "The biggest underdog in history against one of the biggest egos", I'm happy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm just waiting for them to confirm Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show once and for all. It's pretty much set in stone based on the last few weeks and is the perfect way to turn Orton heel.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I reckon Trips/Brock will go on first actually. Don't know why, I just have a feeling. Rock/Cena will close obviously with Taker/Punk in between. As for match lengths, I reckon they'll all get about the same as each other but hopefully Rock/Cena isn't as long as the first. Knock 8-10 mins off and it's going to be much better. I don't see any long music performances this time around either which will give them more time I guess.


I can't see Brock/Trips going on first, but I could see it or Taker/Punk in the same spot Taker/HHH was last year, starting right at the 8PM slot, with the other match going right before Rock/Cena.

Anyway I think Brock/HHH will get the most time as I could see it going 30+ minutes (with unfortunately a lot of downtime like the Taker/HHH matches the last two years). Taker/Punk will go anywhere from 15-25 minutes (depending on how long Taker feels he can go probably) and Rock/Cena, if WWE learned anything from last year, will go 25 minutes tops... preferably no more than 20 though... but it's the biggest match on the card and will be the main event, so it's at the very least getting 20.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Orton will turn heel at wrestlemania or on raw the night after. Wwe tends to have big angles on raws the night after mania.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

RenegadexParagon said:


> 2013 so far-
> Punk/Rock - *** 3/4. I enjoyed the match aside from the awful finish.
> Punk/Rock II- It's either a DUD or one *. Either way, it was bad and really boring. Those restholds


 Yeah, I'd agree with this. Royal Rumble match was way better than the EC match. At least the rest holds made sense to the story because ROCK was injured due to the Shield attack so Punk working the mid sections was fine, JBL did a good job of selling it as well. I don't think the ending was awful but having more finishers and nearfalls would have certainly been better. Oh, if only the table botch spot didn't happen 

EC match, I didn't like that much. Either a high two star match or low 3 star.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

If Rock/Punk ever happens again, i may cry


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't see Orton turning heel until ER. The only heel turn from WM will be :cena4 turn


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Barrett HIAC 2010

****1/2*

Really much better than i thought it would be. Barrett played the heel in control really well and got the crowd to root for Cena a lot.

also, MVP SIGHTING :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> I don't see Orton turning heel until ER. The only heel turn from WM will be :cena4 turn


In a perfect world, Orton turns heel early in the night and lets The Shield win while his team have the upper-hand. In the main event, a ref bump happens, Orton comes out and assists John Cena to win and they form a new Two Man Power Trip. Heel Orton vs ROCK for Extreme Rules with Orton beating him after Brock Lesnar interferes. (setting up BORK vs ROCK for WM30)

Orton and Cena tear through the roster as the WWE & WH Champions then you can create a new top face by having that certain someone stop them.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rawk said:


> I can't see Brock/Trips going on first, but I could see it or Taker/Punk in the same spot Taker/HHH was last year, starting right at the 8PM slot, with the other match going right before Rock/Cena.
> 
> Anyway I think Brock/HHH will get the most time as I could see it going 30+ minutes (with unfortunately a lot of downtime like the Taker/HHH matches the last two years). Taker/Punk will go anywhere from 15-25 minutes (depending on how long Taker feels he can go probably) and Rock/Cena, if WWE learned anything from last year, will go 25 minutes tops... preferably no more than 20 though... but it's the biggest match on the card and will be the main event, so it's at the very least getting 20.


I meant first as in first of the big 3 matches lol, not actually the first match on the card although that would be quite the way to kick things off. I think it will go where HHH/Taker went last year.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

^^ 2 much fantasy in one post, bro.

Cena/Barret ***3/4, really loved this match, better then their Chairs Match from TLC


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Cena HIAC- **** - Barrett's fourth best match and second best singles match. Still amazes me they let Barrett kick out of the AA clean.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Barrett sucks 8*D.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Bet it was an unnatural motion for Cena to lay down for more than 3 seconds 

Just ask Kendra Lust 8*D


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Barrett sucks 8*D.


I hate this thread when Barrett is discussed.  Too many hatin' on his English swag.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> ^^ 2 much fantasy in one post, bro.


Let me dream, will ya? 



The Rawk said:


> I hate this thread when Barrett is discussed.  Too many hatin' on his English swag.


Sheamus straight killed him last week when mocking his acting. That shit was hysterical.

I also find it funny how he's so irrelevant that Sheamus is feuding with him one minute then an hour later he comes out to fight The Shield. :buried


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anyone watch Smackdown this week? Del Rio/Ziggler or Sheamus/Show worth checking out?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> In a perfect world, Orton turns heel early in the night and lets The Shield win while his team have the upper-hand. In the main event, a ref bump happens, Orton comes out and assists John Cena to win and they form a new Two Man Power Trip. Heel Orton vs ROCK for Extreme Rules with Orton beating him after Brock Lesnar interferes. (setting up BORK vs ROCK for WM30)
> 
> Orton and Cena tear through the roster as the WWE & WH Champions then you can create a new top face by having that certain someone stop them.


Holy hell that sounds fantastic. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd say a big time feud with Barrett post Mania is in Randy's future :vince.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Taker/Kane HIAC is awful. **1/2*

I HATE IT.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Finished watching Bret Hitman Hart: The Dungeon Collection the matches from the DVD:

Bret/Dynamite Kid- 1978: ***
Bret/Sawyer- 1979: *1/2
Bret/Burke 1983: **1/2
Bret/Dyanmite Kid 1985: ***3/4
Hart Found.&D.Davis/Islanders 1987- ****
Bret/Andre 1989- **
Bret/Mr. Perfect 1989- ***1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can we please get an Orton/Sheamus and Orton/Bryan feud for this year? Orton/Sheamus feels like a big-time feud, even if it lost the heat it had last summer, and Orton/Bryan with Orton as a heel and Bryan as a face could be a star-making performance for Bryan.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I'd say a big time feud with Barrett post Mania is in Randy's future :vince.


I will legit cry if that happens  

I don't want to see Orton/Barrett EVER again.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Taker/Kane HIAC is awful. **1/2*
> 
> I HATE IT.




Agreed, such a slow paced match and just a weird ending. I'm happy Kane finally went over taker though. I enjoyed their NOC 2010 match


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can we please get an Orton/Sheamus and Orton/Bryan feud for this year? Orton/Sheamus feels like a big-time feud, even if it lost the heat it had last summer, and Orton/Bryan with Orton as a heel and Bryan as a face could be a star-making performance for Bryan.


Heel Orton vs Face Sheamus in a street fight, now that would incredible. Talk about an all out brawl.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

15 + minutes of Orton/Bryan: mark


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> Just out of curiosity, how would you rate every PPV Main Event from 2012?
> 
> My ratings:
> RR Match - ***
> ...


2012 main events:

Royal Rumble match - ***1/2*
John Cena vs Kane - Elimination Chamber -****
The Rock vs John Cena - WrestleMania - *****
Brock Lesnar vs John Cena - Extreme Rules *****1/2*
John Cena vs John Laurinaitis - Over The Limit- ***
John Cena vs The Big Show - No Way Out ***1/4*
RAW MITB - ****1/2*
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam - ******
CM Punk vs John Cena - Night of Champions - ******
CM Punk vs Ryback - Hell in a Cell *****
CM Punk vs Ryback vs John Cena - Survivor Series ****1/2*
John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler - Tables, Ladders and Chairs - ****3/4*



The Rawk said:


> Barrett/Cena HIAC- **** - Barrett's fourth best match and second best singles match. Still amazes me they let Barrett kick out of the AA clean.


I'm a Barrett fan and I don't think he's had a match even worth 4 stars, so to say a **** match is his forth best match is I think overrating him a bit. You mention that you think that he's second best singles match, so is his best singles match the one against Bryan at Summerslam 2011?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Sheamus straight killed him last week when mocking his acting. That shit was hysterical.
> 
> I also find it funny how he's so irrelevant that Sheamus is feuding with him one minute then an hour later he comes out to fight The Shield. :buried


Sheamus didn't kill him with that (slightly funny) promo, he killed him when he beat him at every turn and proved no matter what, Barrett couldn't beat him. Not to mention now he doesn't even have Sheamus' full attention in their "feud".

Barrett was destroyed even further losing multiple times to Orton, Kofi on PPV, and eventually Bo Dallas. I wonder why they even bothered giving him a clean win over Orton if they weren't going to follow through with it. You would've thought it was just to lead to Orton's heel turn after a downward spiral of losses, but Orton has won more than lost since then anyway.



> I'd say a big time feud with Barrett post Mania is in Randy's future


DA BARRETT BARRAGE VERSUS DA LEGEND KILLING VIPER 165 TIMES IN A LIFETIME to be announced the night after Mania 29 for WM30.



> I'm a Barrett fan and I don't think he's had a match even worth 4 stars, so to say a **** match is his forth best match is I think overrating him a bit. You mention that you think that he's second best singles match, so is his best singles match the one against Bryan at Summerslam 2011?


I disagree, he's more than deserving of four **** matches... since... well... he's had them (imo). Here's the list:

1) SD EC 2011 (which he barely played a part in at all so while it wasn't due to him, he was still a part of that match)
2) vs. Bryan SS 2011
3) Nexus vs. WWE SS 2010 (again, he wasn't as responsible for making awesome as several others, but he was in it)
4) vs. Cena HIAC 2010

That's his **** list and he doesn't have any matches at ***3/4, not to mention on my list of 308 matches (so far), those are his only appearances on the list to this point. He probably won't appear again until I get into ***1/4 matches, where he has a couple of matches I remember.

(Only matches I don't include on my list are RR and Battle Royal matches... just cause they're difficult to rate and compare to any other match type).


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Royal Rumble match - ***
John Cena vs Kane - Elimination Chamber -**
The Rock vs John Cena - WrestleMania - ***1/2
Brock Lesnar vs John Cena - Extreme Rules ****
John Cena vs John Laurinaitis - Over The Limit- DUD
John Cena vs The Big Show - No Way Out **1/2
RAW MITB - ***
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam - ***1/2
CM Punk vs John Cena - Night of Champions - ****1/2
CM Punk vs Ryback - Hell in a Cell **
CM Punk vs Ryback vs John Cena - Survivor Series **3/4
John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler - Tables, Ladders and Chairs ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Closest to a **** match for Barrett is ***1/2 with Bryan imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Barrett sucks again 8*D.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> 1) SD EC 2011 (which he barely played a part in at all so while it wasn't due to him, he was still a part of that match)
> 2) vs. Bryan SS 2011
> 3) Nexus vs. WWE SS 2010 (again, he wasn't as responsible for making awesome as several others)
> 4) vs. Cena HIAC 2010
> ...


Ah, I was just thinking of Barrett's single matches when I was typing that reply. As with singles matches you can properly give him the credit for them, unlike in multi-man matches like that Nexus tag where he played a small part. If we're going by all matches then his best match was probably that Smackdown Chamber match, he played a big part in the first half of that match and looked good, I even remember praising him for his performance afterwards in a post. But as far as just singles matches, he match with Bryan at Summerslam was probably his best. 

What did you think of his matches with Orton in the late part of 2011 (before the Orton/Barrett matches were ridiculously overdone) I remember enjoying a no DQ match they had, but these days I can't stand to watch any Orton/Barrett matches just because of how much they've done them now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

PPV Main Events 2012:

RR Match - ... fuck I barely remember this match.
Cena/Kane - **1/2
Rock/Cena - ***1/2
Lesnar/Cena - ****1/4
Cena/Laurinaitis - DUD
Cena/Show - **
Raw MITB - **3/4
HHH/Lesnar - ***
Punk/Cena - ****
Punk/Ryback - ***
Punk/Cena/Ryback - ***1/4
Cena/Ziggler - ***1/4



> Ah, I was just thinking of Barrett's single matches when I was typing that reply. As with singles matches you can properly give him the credit for them, unlike in multi-man matches like that Nexus tag where he played a small part. If we're going by all matches then his best match was probably that Smackdown Chamber match, he played a big part in the first half of that match and looked good, I even remember praising him for his performance afterwards in a post. But as far as just singles matches, he match with Bryan at Summerslam was probably the best.
> 
> What did you think of his feud with Orton in the late part of 2011 (before the Orton/Barrett matches were ridiculously overdone) I remember enjoying a no DQ match they had, but these days I can't stand to watch any Orton/Barrett matches just because of how much they've done them now.


The SD 2011 EC I don't remember him doing anything special, but I thought his performance in the 2012 SD EC was awesome. He had a sound (although boring) start against Big Show, and he absolutely killed with with Bryan and looked like a true dominant force, even if he was eliminated by Santino. He was the MVP of that chamber imo.

And as far as the Orton feud goes, that, along with the chamber, shows me he was really starting to hit his stride in the ring. The No DQ match I probably have at ***-***1/4, with their first match before SVS on SD that Barrett won I have at ***1/4. The tables match I had at *** as well. And the match in 2012, I think the show right after the Rumble, I have at **3/4 from what I remember. Like I said, Barrett was really starting to find himself and what worked for him... and then he got injured, and while I don't think he's been as bad as he was in 2010-early 2011 and has had some good matches, he definitely took a hit due to the injury.

And the Barrett/Orton feud itself I thought was good, but they never really let him give some nasty beatdowns to Orton and really make Orton look like the underdog, and the whole stair thing just looked like a complete accident from what I remember. It would've been a lot better had we seen Barrett actually throw Orton down the stairs. And then they ended the feud very anti-climatically with that match on Raw or SD right after RR in 2012. Orton comes back, gets revenge, and Barrett doesn't care and fucks off. Of course then again he did have the chamber thing and then got injured, but I can't remember well if they hinted at continuing the feud after that match or what.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've just looked at how CM Punk has one of the most consistently good WM runs in my ratings:

MITB 23 - ****1/2
MITB 24 - ****1/4
MITB 25 - ***3/4
vs Mysterio - ***
vs Orton - ***1/2
vs Jericho - ****1/2

For a run of 6 matches, Punk has no WM match less than good. Hopefully the match with Taker continues that streak (see what I did here? 8*D).


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> The SD 2011 EC I don't remember him doing anything special, but I thought his performance in the 2012 SD EC was awesome. He had a sound (although boring) start against Big Show, and he absolutely killed with with Bryan and looked like a true dominant force, even if he was eliminated by Santino. He was the MVP of that chamber imo.


Yeah, sorry I meant the 2012 Chamber match for his good performance. I don't remember too much of the 2011 Chamber match, but wasn't that the one that ended with Edge and Mysterio? Yeah that was probably better the 2012 Chamber match, But Barrett put in a better performance in the 2012 Chamber. Hope that make sense.

Edit:


The Rawk said:


> And as far as the Orton feud goes, that, along with the chamber, shows me he was really starting to hit his stride in the ring. The No DQ match I probably have at ***-***1/4, with their first match before SVS on SD that Barrett won I have at ***1/4. The tables match I had at *** as well. And the match in 2012, I think the show right after the Rumble, I have at **3/4 from what I remember. *Like I said, Barrett was really starting to find himself and what worked for him...* and then he got injured, and while I don't think he's been as bad as he was in 2010-early 2011 and has had some good matches, he definitely took a hit due to the injury.


Agreed there. He was getting booked then a lot better than he is now, he looked like he was on the verge of going somewhere great, but then he got injured and hasn't returned to that level since. Before his injury he was getting booked as a credible upper midcarder, perhaps on the verge of main-event status, but now he's just a simple midcarder who's directionless.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Falls Count Anywhere - Disc 2

**Falls Count Anywhere
*Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - *** 1/4
_RAW 9/22/1997_

*Falls Count Anywhere
*Tazz vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - **
_ECW Heatwave '98_

*WWF Hardcore Title (Vacant)*
Al Snow vs. Hardcore Holly - N/R (FUN)
_St. Valentine's Day Massacre_

*#1 Contender's Fully Loaded Strap Match
*Triple H vs. The Rock - * 3/4
_Fully Loaded '99_

*Greenwich Street Fight
*Test vs. Shane McMahon - ****
_Summerslam '99_

*WWF Championship
*Big Show (c) vs. Kane - ** 3/4
_RAW 12/20/1999

_*WWF Hardcore Title
*Crash Holly (c) vs. The Headbangers - N/R (FUN)
_Smackdown 3/16/2000_

*Street Fight
*Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon - *** 1/2
_RAW 10/29/2001_

*Street Fight
*Ric Flair vs. Vince McMahon - *** 1/4
_Royal Rumble '02_


-Triple H/Cactus Jack is a really fun brawl, great stuff. Tazz/Bam Bam is the infamous match where they go through the entrance ramp. That's really the only notable portion, everything else is brawling through the crowd for the most part. Finish sucks. Snow/Holly brings back a lot of childhood memories. They brawl all the way out to the Mississippi River. (Y)

- Not gonna lie, that Fully Loaded Strap Match fuckin sucked. The gimmick itself it just stupid. Why would you have a No DQ, Falls Count Anywhere Strap match? Triple H completely removes the strap for a while and it's not like he's gonna get DQed. Everything else just felt really meh. Crowd was dead for the most part and it was mainly a bunch of punches until the pointless ref distractions that lead to interference.

- TEST vs. SHANE O'MAC :mark: Fuckin LOVE this match, another one of my childhood favorites. The intensity was just off the charts with a great story to boot. Test overcoming Shane & the Posse was awesome and there's some pretty brutal stuff. One of the few bright spots of 1999 & arguably the best match of Test's career. So much fun.

- Big Show vs. Kane starts out as a standard one-on-one match, but it was the McMahon-Helmsley era so they changed the rules as it went on & it evolved into a No DQ, No Countout, Falls Count Anywhere match. It wasn't too long but it's pretty awesome. A few spots I've never seen either guy be involved in. Another really fun match with some big time bumps.

- Crash vs. The Headbnahers takes place in a place called Super Fun USA or Fun Town USA, idk, some shit like that. It's pretty fun while it lasts, can't hate on the inclusion.

- Vince vs. Shane is great. The McMahons are the king of Street Fights so when you put both of them together it's golden. You got your signature elbow drop announce table spot from Shane, but he also attempted a shooting star press! I don't think I've ever seen him try that. Super fun match with an awesomely overbooked ending. It was the night Angle turned on the WWF and joined the Alliance. The whole damn uppercard roster spills out.

- Flair vs. Vince is really well structured and a pretty solid matchup. Great bladejob & performance from Flair... as always. ​


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk at Mania:

MITB 23 - ***1/2
MITB 24 - ****1/4
MITB 25 - ***1/2
vs Mysterio - ***1/2
vs Orton - ***1/2
vs Jericho - ****1/4

Very consistent Mania resume. Not one match that wasn't great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/major-update-wwe-wrestlemania-1-15-dvd/36742/ LOL


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/major-update-wwe-wrestlemania-1-15-dvd/36742/ LOL


:lol Expected


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk at Mania:

MITB 23 - ***1/2
MITB 24 - ****1/4
MITB 25 - ***1/2
vs Mysterio - ***1/2
vs Orton - ***1/4
vs Jericho - ****1/2

imo


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watching WM 2000 now. Like WM 11 I have fond memories of it. WM 11 was my first WM, WM 2000 was the first WM I saw when I was finally able to watch wrestling again following 2 years of not having the ability to see it (stupid parents not wasting money on Sky for me! ).

HARDCORE TITLE MATCH :mark:. While I dislike (for the most part) garbage wrestling, I always enjoyed the hardcore division because it contained that crap to just one small part of the show and always gave us entertaining matches.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/major-update-wwe-wrestlemania-1-15-dvd/36742/ LOL


Hate when they edit shit. What are trying to do, make the old DVD's more PG friendly to the current Era? Let them be. Those DVD's have a 15 or 18 rating on them for a reason. Like I just read for example, that they completely removed Bossman's hanging? Why remove the only good thing about that match. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Hate when they edit shit. What are trying to do, make the old DVD's more PG friendly to the current Era? Let them be. Those DVD's have 15 or 18 rating on them for a reason. Like I just read for example, that they completely removed Bossman's hanging? Why remove the only thing about that match. :lol


'Removing choking' too :lol FFS


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I know. :lol

Choking used to be a regular thing heels would do in matches back then when they were frustrated, and now they remove it. Ridiculous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That WM 15 DVD is the Saturday Morning Slam of WM releases . CUT EVERYTHING THAT LOOKS VIOLENT!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That was a hilarious read.

This one cracks me up the most:

*50:29:* 2013 restores a half second of dead frame as Road Dogg ducks before a cut to the crowd.

:lol

Will they release WM2000-WM23? Y'know, with Benoit's involvement in all of them except 18.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> That was a hilarious read.
> 
> This one cracks me up the most:
> 
> ...


They'll just blur him out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *50:29:* 2013 restores a half second of dead frame as Road Dogg ducks before a cut to the crowd.


:lol at the bozo who edits the fucking things, "Oh shit i edited out a second, i meant only half a second, better go back"


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> :lol at the bozo who edits the fucking things, "Oh shit i edited out a second, i meant only half a second, better go back"


LOL, what I got out of that part was "DUCKING IS NOT PG!".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> LOL, what I got out of that part was "DUCKING IS NOT PG!".


Vince - "Don't forget editing bloke, no fucking ducking in my DVD's"  Seriously, WTF, music edits are bad enough when WWE probably even own most of the damn rights, but shit like that is baffling tbh.

and i do think it is because of the current PG era why they cut all this shit, i mean FFS, just show what happened, like Nostalgia said, they do have a fucking BBFC classification for crying out loud


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm late to the party, but Punk @ Mania ratings:

MITB 23 - ****3/4*
MITB 24 - ******
MITB 25 - ****1/2*
vs Mysterio - ****3/4*
vs Orton - ****3/4*
vs Jericho - *****1/4*

Solid. Let's hope he can keep it up with Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CM Punk - The Next Mr WM when Undertaker retires?

And speaking of Mr WM... is it fair to include HBK's Rockers matches when comparing his and Undertaker's WM stuff to see who is the REAL Mr WM?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> CM Punk - The Next Mr WM when Undertaker retires?


*waits for Choke2Death's response to that*

Anyway Punk's lucky to be apart of three MITB matches at WrestleMania, as they are nearly always good matches. And on that subject, I miss MITB at WrestleMania.  It worked as an exciting spectacle to see on the grandest stage of them all and the match would get the crowd pumped and excited for the rest of the show, especially when the MITB would open the show like it did at WrestleMania 21.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> CM Punk - The Next Mr WM when Undertaker retires?
> 
> And speaking of Mr WM... is it fair to include HBK's Rockers matches when comparing his and Undertaker's WM stuff to see who is the REAL Mr WM?


It's fair. I mean people are including matches that had up to 7 other men in them for Punk's Mania resume. I guess the same could be said for a guy like Edge too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, MITB are always good but by that logic Shelton Benjamin has had about 3 **** matches at 'Mania. 

I do like Shelton though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Clique said:


> It's fair. I mean people are including matches that had up to 7 other men in them for Punk's Mania resume. I guess the same could be said for a guy like Edge too.


It could. Speaking of Edge..

Edge's WrestleMania matches:

WrestleMania 16 TLC: *****1/2*
WrestleMania 17 TLC: *****3/4*
WrestleMania 18 Edge vs Booker T - can't remember/need a rewatch
WrestleMania 21 - First ever MITB ladder match *****1/4*
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley hardcore match - *****1/2*
WrestleMania 23 - MITB match - ****3/4* (need a re-watch)
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker - *****1/2*
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena - ****1/4*
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho ****3/4*
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio ***** (need a re-watch)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Edge 'Mania matches:

WrestleMania 16 Triangle Ladder: *****1/4*
WrestleMania 17 TLC: *****3/4*
WrestleMania 18 Edge vs Booker T:***1/4*
WrestleMania 21 MITB: *****1/4*
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley hardcore match: *****1/2*
WrestleMania 23 - MITB: ****1/2*
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker:*****1/4*
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena: *****
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho: ****1/2*
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 16 Triangle Ladder: ****1/4
WrestleMania 17 TLC: ***3/4
WrestleMania 18 Edge vs Booker T: **
WrestleMania 21 MITB: ****1/2
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley hardcore match: ****
WrestleMania 23 - MITB: ***1/2
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker: ****1/2
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena: ***
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho: ***1/2
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: **1/4


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Edge WM matches:

WrestleMania 16 Triangle Ladder: ****1/2
WrestleMania 17 TLC: ****1/2
WrestleMania 18 Edge vs Booker T: **1/4
WrestleMania 21 MITB: ****1/4
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley hardcore match: ****1/4
WrestleMania 23 - MITB: ***1/2
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker: ****
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena: ***
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho: ***3/4
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: ***


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Edge

WM 16 - ***3/4
WM 17 - ****1/4
WM 18 - **3/4
WM 21 - ****1/2
WM 22 - ****1/4
WM 23 - ****
WM 24 - ****1/2
WM 25 - ***1/4
WM 26 - ***1/2
WM 27 - ***1/4

Good shit.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, Edge was pretty damn consistent at 'Mania.

I wrote 'is' and then remembered he had to retire. I miss Edge. :mcgee1


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Edge at Mania

WrestleMania 16 Triangle Ladder: ****1/4
WrestleMania 17 TLC: ****
WrestleMania 18 Edge vs Booker T: **1/4
WrestleMania 21 MITB: ****1/2
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley hardcore match: ****1/2
WrestleMania 23 - MITB: **1/2
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker: ****1/2
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena: **1/2
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho: ***
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: **


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*Rivalries*

Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat
Hulk Hogan vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
Von Erich’s vs. The Fabulous Freebirds


*Matches*

*WWE Championship Match
*Hulk Hogan vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
_The War to Settle the Score • February 18, 1985_

*Badstreet Rules Match
*Kevin & Kerry Von Erich vs. Terry Gordy & Buddy Roberts
_World Class Championship Wrestling • February, 1988_


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk at 'Mania:

MITB 23 - ****
MITB 24 - ****1/4
MITB 25 - ***1/2
vs Mysterio - ***1/2
vs Orton - ***1/2
vs Jericho - ****1/4

Him and 'Taker are going to fucking kill it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Edge at Wrestlemania

WrestleMania 16 - Triangle Ladder: N/A
WrestleMania 17 - TLC: ★★★★
WrestleMania 18 - Edge vs Booker T: N/A
WrestleMania 21 - MITB: ★★★★½
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley: ★★★★
WrestleMania 23 - MITB: ★★★¾
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker: ★★★★
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena: ★★★
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho: ★★★½
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: ★★★¼

-------

Also finally watched the Survivor Series elimination 6-man tag today from 2002 and it was awesome. Just wish Benoit and Angle weren't the first elimination as they were on a roll. ★★★★


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk at Mania:

MITB 23 - **1/2
MITB 24 - ****1/2
MITB 25 - **3/4
vs Mysterio - ***
vs Orton - ***1/2
vs Jericho - ***3/4


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

CM Punk at WM:

MITB 23 - ****
MITB 24 - ***3/4
MITB 25 - ***1/2
vs Mysterio - ***
vs Orton - ***1/2
vs Jericho - ***1/2


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm a fan of Punk's three singles matches at Mania. This year should be his best yet, it's certainly the best opportunity he's had to have a Wrestlemania classic, but my expectations for Punk/Taker aren't nearly as high as I assume most people's are. Hopefully I'm wrong.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Arnold Tricky said:


> *Rivalries*
> 
> Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat
> Hulk Hogan vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
> ...


Well... that does nothing for me. Anyone seen these?

We better get an unseen Flair/Steamboat match as a blu ray extra!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Edge @ WrestleMania ~!

WrestleMania 16 Triangle Ladder: ****1/4
WrestleMania 17 TLC: ****
WrestleMania 18 Edge vs Booker T: *1/4
WrestleMania 21 MITB: ****3/4
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley hardcore match: ****
WrestleMania 23 - MITB: ***1/2
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker: ****
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena: ***1/4
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho: ***3/4
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: ***1/2

He brought it at WM, imo.

---------

Punker @ WrestleMania

MITB 23 - ***1/2
MITB 24 - ***1/4
MITB 25 - ***
vs Mysterio - ***1/2
vs Orton - ***1/2
vs Jericho - ****1/2

Consistent as hell. With the latter being the clear cut MOTN on the Mania for me. vs Taker could be :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Expecting Punk's match with Taker to be his best at Mania so far. Who does everyone think he'll face next year?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

if you believe the internet:

it's Austin. It won't be and tbf i hope it isn't


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

It won't be Austin. Plus I doubt Austin can still put on a good match. Rock's probably in better shape than him and he's been awful in the ring since he came back.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Bryan or Sheamus for Punk next year. Maybe for the WWE Title. Or they could do Punk/Trips.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd be over the moon to see Punk/HHH at Mania. Punk/Bryan for the title would be awesome but I can't see DB in a Mania championship match. Sheamus is a good shout - that could happen.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Clique said:


> Bryan or Sheamus for Punk next year. Maybe for the WWE Title. Or they could do Punk/Trips.


We NEED Punk/Trips again. With no fucking Nash to ruin everything


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> We NEED Punk/Trips again. With no fucking Nash to ruin everything


Agreed. Book it. HHH's last match? It would surely be a great way to go out.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Hopefully Punk/HHH. Punk deserves a marquee matchup.. If he faces Sheamus or Bryan he'd get lost in the shuffle.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thought their PPV match kinda sucked, so I've no interest in HHH/Punk again.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Thought their PPV match kinda sucked, so I've no interest in HHH/Punk again.


That match was poor, but it was more of a brawl than a match plus the storyline and interference involving Nash killed it. Put those two together at Mania and I'm sure we'd see a lot better from both of them.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm not too high on seeing Punk/HHH again either. And besides, I want Triple H's last match to be against Lesnar at this years Mania. If they make HHH/Lesnar II be a all out war, maybe a No DQ match, or a last man standing match, and put Triple H's career on the line, it would get me a lot more interested in the match and I imagine a lot of others.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Unsanctioned fight me thinks, which i'd be cool with


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

But Cal there was a lot of fuckery booking with all the interference from Awesome Truth and Nash. I think they could do much better a big time match at Mania. 

If WWE wants to make WM XXX one of the biggest ever they could put together at the top of the card - Taker/Cena, Rock/Brock, and Punk/HHH. Although I still wouldn't mind Punk/Shemus WWE Title.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge at Mania:

WrestleMania 18 Edge vs Booker T: **
WrestleMania 21 MITB: ****1/4
WrestleMania 22 - Edge vs Mick Foley hardcore match: ****1/4
WrestleMania 23 - MITB: ***1/2
WrestleMania 24 - Edge vs The Undertaker: ****1/4
WrestleMania 25 - Edge vs Big Show vs John Cena: ***
WrestleMania 26 - Edge vs Chris Jericho: ****
WrestleMania 27 - Edge vs Alberto Del Rio: ***1/2

Edit: Punk/HHH is at *** on last watch. Good match, but too much BS towards the end. I think they would have a much better match at Mania. It should've been Taker/Lesnar and Punk/HHH this year anyway.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Clique said:


> But Cal there was a lot of fuckery booking with all the interference from Awesome Truth and Nash. I think they could do much better a big time match at Mania.
> 
> If WWE wants to make WM XXX one of the biggest ever they could put together at the top of the card - *Taker/Cena, Rock/Brock, and Punk/HHH.* Although I still wouldn't mind Punk/Shemus WWE Title.


How could anyone not be excited for that set of matches? Plus, none of those need to be title matches, so you could throw Ziggler or Bryan into those. It would be a top card.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Then again, having Triple H have at his last match at WM 30 would be fitting given the number. And it could be Undertaker's last match if he wrestles Cena. Because honestly after Cena who is there left for Taker to face? Retiring on 22-0 at WrestleMania 30 with a career over two decades would be a awesome moment.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (_Summerslam 2002_) - *******

Hadn't seen this in years, fellas. What an amazing piece of work. Anyone else on the same page as me?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nostalgia said:


> Then again, having Triple H have at his last match at WM 30 would be fitting given the number. And it could be Undertaker's last match if he wrestles Cena. Because honestly after Cena who is there left for Taker to face? Retiring on 22-0 at WrestleMania 30 with a career over two decades would be a awesome moment.


Well, there is Lesnar, Rock, and whoever the top star is by WM32... I just wouldn't believe it if it's still Cena. They could get Taker to 25-0 if Taker's body can go one match a year for 5 more Manias. This year Punk, next year Cena, year after that Lesnar in Lesnar's final match, WM32 he could fight Rock or a super heel Cena, who would've turned by WM31, and then WM33 either fight the next top star or whoever he doesn't fight between Cena and Rock the year prior, and that would be it. 

Of course, by then, we might start anticipating Taker's next 5 matches, but by the time he would get to 30-0, he'd be somewhere between 55 and 60... no way I can see him going that long. Going into his early 50's is a little bit realistic, though it also does depend on his health. Either way, as long as he's still producing MOTYC's, he can stay as long as he wants for all I care. 

And while we're on the topic of Taker and Mania, I watched his WM23-WM27 matches the past few days. No ratings changes, but my god, I realized one of the huge pluses to going to Mania... the near falls will be 1,000 times better, especially during the streak match. When Punk hits a third GTS, I'll actually be able to watch in disbelief as Taker's streak might come to end and not be taken out of the moment by "DA STREEK IS OVR! DA STREEK IS OVAR! OH MY GAWD DA STREEK IS OVAAAA!!!!" that makes it completely obvious the streak is indeed not over. I mean lets look at it:

WM23- Batista bomb, you have Cole shouting "THE STREAK IS OVER!" over and over until Taker kicks out. I remember back watching it live knowing Taker would kick out after that. Otherwise, it would've been a great false finish.

WM24- Spear by Edge... now I would've never thought the streak was ending with one spear, but it didn't help when Coach or Grisham or whoever was already declaring the streak done.

WM25- Think it was Lawler who was the culprit in this one, though it wasn't as bad as the last two.

WM26- It was Cole again doing the honors of ruining the kick out after Shawn's last SCM.

The fact that we had proper commentary when Taker was tombstoned by HHH and kicked out is what made that moment even more epic. All JR said was something along the lines of "The tombstone of Undertaker has ended with cruel irony!"... and that coupled with everything else just made it seem like Taker was done for, and then when he kicked out, all the more amazing. Thank god JR was there to call that line, because Cole or Lawler would've no doubt ruined that moment if they had to call it (Well, Cole wasn't there, but thankfully Lawler kept his mouth shut). Although to be fair, JR had his moment with the third pedigree of calling that the streak was over, but it wasn't anywhere near as obnoxious as Cole, Coach, and Lawler were in year's prior... and anyway he called the big false finish perfectly and that's what counts.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (_Summerslam 2002_) - *******
> 
> Hadn't seen this in years, fellas. What an amazing piece of work. Anyone else on the same page as me?




This match gets a lot of hate on here I have no idea why, but I'm with you. I've rated it ****1/2. Arguably the best match in summerslam history.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (_Summerslam 2002_) - *******
> 
> Hadn't seen this in years, fellas. What an amazing piece of work. Anyone else on the same page as me?


***** is a bit high for me on that match. ****1/2 I give it. Incredible match. 4th best SS match in history (behind Austin/Angle in 01, Taker/Edge in 08, and Punk/Jeff in 09).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/4 for it. Nowhere even remotely close to the best SS match. Not even close to MOTN at that event .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The only thing (and I mean ONLY thing) that I could see someone not liking would be Shawn's selling. Sure it's shaky, maybe even non-existent at times, but I'm buying into the whole 'running on adrenaline' thing. The storytelling is amazing, the character work is spot on, both guys put in amazing performances, the brutality is certainly there for a non-sanctioned match, and it just keeps building and building to a satisfying conclusion and Hunter's shocking attack afterwards. I couldn't have asked for anything more. 5 stars.

*** 1/4!? You're fuckin crazy, Cal.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels (_Summerslam 2002_) - *******
> 
> Hadn't seen this in years, fellas. What an amazing piece of work. Anyone else on the same page as me?


Not on the same page, not even in the same book 

****1/2* for me, i enjoyed it but you could call the spots from a mile off which took me out of the match a lot. Good match, not great.

edit: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Big Z again" - next time Cal


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> *Well, there is Lesnar, Rock,* and whoever the top star is by WM32... I just wouldn't believe it if it's still Cena. They could get Taker to 25-0 if Taker's body can go one match a year for 5 more Manias. This year Punk, next year Cena, year after that Lesnar in Lesnar's final match, WM32 he could fight Rock or a super heel Cena, who would've turned by WM31, and then WM33 either fight the next top star or whoever he doesn't fight between Cena and Rock the year prior, and that would be it.


That's assuming they'll still be around then. I'm sure WWE will want them to keep them as special attractions for years to come for their drawing power, but it might not pan out like that. Taker could go a few more years with the one match a year thing, but will he? There was reports not too long ago questioning Taker's future in the WWE due to having two surgeries (I think?) in the past year and nagging injures. Even at one match a year, I'm not sure how much more his broken down old body can take.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Big Z said:


> ***1/4 for it. Nowhere even remotely close to the best SS match. Not even close to MOTN at that event .




How it's not a top 5 summerslam match in anyones eyes is beyond me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

xdoomsayerx said:


> How it's not a top 5 summerslam match in anyones eyes is beyond me.


Because Hart/Perfect, Hart/Bulldog, Hart/Hart, Michaels/Ramon, and Austin/Angle are better SummerSlam matches imo. Trips/Michaels would probably crack my Top 15, though.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Meh, id rate HBK/HHH over HBK/Razor. I seriously think HBK/Razor might be the most overrated match on this forum. Not saying it's bad , but I don't agree with it's the GOAT ladder match. I have 3 better ladder matches than that


Benoit/Jericho RR 01
Rock/HHH SS 98
HBK/Jericho NM 08


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Not a big fan of HHH/HBK SummerSlam. Kinda feel like it's one of those matches everyone's supposed to buy into, but not for any real compelling reason, at least to me (kind of like the Beatles). Sure, it's a fine match, but nothing spectacular. And I'm not buying the whole "OH well he hadn't done it in 4-5 years!" argument. So what. It is what is is, which is just a good match, no more no less.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Falls Count Anywhere - Disc 3

**Non-Sanctioned Street Fight
*Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - *****
_Summerslam '02_

*World Heavyweight Championship - Street Fight
*Triple H (c) vs. Kevin Nash - *** 1/4
_Insurrextion '03_

*Women's Title - Falls Count Anywhere*
Melina (c) vs. Mickie James - *
_RAW 3/5/2007_

*Street Fight 
*Triple H vs. Umaga - *** 3/4
_Cyber Sunday '07_

*Street Fight
*John Cena vs. Umaga - ** 1/2
_RAW 6/16/2008_

*Submissions Count Anywhere
*D-Generation X vs. Legacy - ****
_Breaking Point_

*Street Fight
*Batista vs. Rey Mysterio - ** 1/2
_Smackdown 12/11/2009_

*Street Fight
*Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes - *** 3/4
_Smackdown 11/4/2011_


- We know how I feel about the Summerslam '02 match, so I'll skip over that. Baffles me hearing what some people have to say about it though. Anyways, HHH/Nash. Really good match in an Attitude Era, tons of interference and ref bumps kinda way. Flair's a bloody mess 2 minutes into it & he's not even a participant! 

- The Divas match is the one where they brawl into the locker room and rip Candice Michelle's towel off, thus showing some blurred titties. Nothing awful, but didn't get enough time to go anywhere and felt out of place on this dvd. The finish looks horribly painful on Mickie's end.

- HHH/Umaga is way more awesome than I remembered. A fantastic dominating performance from Umaga. Such an unpredictable, monster powerhouse he was booked as. Miss that motherfucker. The match with Cena was going along fine until the finish, which legitimately pissed me off. Knocked off 1/2* for it.

- DX vs. LEGACY :mark: I absolutely adore their feud because the matches always delivered, and the Breaking Point encounter is no exception. Really awesome chaotic brawl with an interesting stipulation. Loved the story of DX always being one man down and it was cool seeing all 4 guys going out of their element to lock in so many different submissions. Big fan of this.

- Batista vs. Rey Mysterio was a great feud mainly because of the backstory and Batista was a major DICK, but man I could never buy into any of their matches, and I've seen like 4 of them. They all feel like extended squashes to me and I can't buy a single bit of Rey's weak offense... Oh well. 

- Orton/Cody is of course awesome stuff and a great way to end the set. Very physical match that got a lot of time. I'm so excited for the day Cody becomes a main eventer...

*Overall Set Score: 8/10

*- There's several things to like about this set. 1) Variety. You get matches from 3 different decades with a slew of different people, and the vast majority of these have never been released on dvd before. 2) The fun factor. Most of the time, the matches that were short were still fun to watch. 3) Triple H. Holy hell, if you're a fan of Paul you're gonna love the shit out of this. The guy has SIX MATCHES on here. 

- But at the same time, there's definitely some things that make ya scratch your head. 1) The back half of disc 1. Holy FUCK was it miserable to sit through. A 30 minute Road Warrior match that's void of anything exciting, a random brawl from Mania 13, and then a match that wasn't even a match (more like an angle). All of that should've been scrapped. 2) Where's ECW? How in the world do you have a set profiling the most out of control street fights and use just ONE match from the company that put that type of wrestling on the map? Silly.

*Best Matches on the Set
*
1. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (_Summerslam '02_) - *****
2. Sgt. Slaughter vs. Pat Patterson (_MSG 1981_) - ****
3. Sting vs. Cactus Jack (_Beach Blast '92_) - ****
4. DX vs. Legacy (_Breaking Point_) - ****
5. Test vs. Shane McMahon (_Summerslam '99_) - ****​


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I will be posting my 2007 list shortly.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I remember liking that Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels match from Summerslam 2002 a lot when it first happened. 

However, I revisited the match recently and was disappointed. I couldn't really get into it for some reason. The pacing dragged a bit for me, HBK was overselling in my opinion (his back), and a lot of the stuff they did was predictable. 

Don't get me wrong, there's some really good storytelling and moments, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near five stars.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Goddamn I adore Umaga/Trips and DX/Legacy off that DVD. (Y)

Just downloaded a pack of about 100 PPV matches from '02. Gonna try and review them as I go.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Just watched Punk/Taker HIAC in order to get jacked for Mania, and everything about it was so average. I really hate the whole idea of gimmick PPVs. Not even sure if the company still does them but to have Hell in a Cell matches just cause, or TLC matches to fit a gimmick. It just cheapens the whole match gimmick itself. And HIAC matches were best when they were necessary for a rivaley (HBK/Taker, Foley/Taker, et al). It just comes off forced and will always come off forced to me even if it isn't. I can deal with the Elimination Chamber in February, and I see that becoming a part of the road to Wrestlemania, but I really don't like the fact they took Money in the Bank out of Mania and put it in it's own PPV. I don't think we need two briefcases and I don't think we need two titles (another post all together). Don't care for the dimmick ppv concept though.

Anyways, the match felt forced. Didn't get a lot of time, and I also didn't care much for the sXe gimmick even as a huge Punk mark. So the whole feel of the match and the lack of time I didn't feel like they did anything that memorable. Sure it wasn't bad, I'm not trying to say it is. I'm just saying it's utterly average. ***


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Goddamn I adore Umaga/Trips and DX/Legacy off that DVD. (Y)
> 
> Just downloaded a pack of about 100 PPV matches from '02. Gonna try and review them as I go.


link plz


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm thinking of getting this

Matches List: 

Triple H, Edge, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Batista and Randy Orton (New Year's Revolution 2005 Elimination Chamber match, World Heavyweight Championship).avi 

The Dudley Boyz vs Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman (ECW One Night Stand 2005 Tag team match).avi 

Shawn Michaels vs Hulk Hogan - Icon vs. Legend - Summerslam 2005.avi 

The Undertaker vs Randy & Bob Orton - Handicap Casket Match - No Mercy 2005.avi 

The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Armageddon 2005 Hell in a Cell match).avi 

Triple H vs Batista - World Heavyweight Championship - WrestleMania 21.avi 

Team SmackDown vs Team Raw - Five-on-five Survivor Series Elimination Match - Survivor Series 2005.avi 

Triple H vs Randy Orton - World Heavyweight Championship - Royal Rumble 2005.avi 

Triple H vs Ric Flair (Taboo Tuesday 2005 Steel cage match, WWE Intercontinental Championship).avi 

Batista vs Eddie Guerrero - World Heavyweight Championship - No Mercy 2005.avi 

John Cena vs JBL (Judgment Day 2005 I Quit match, WWE Championship).avi 

Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 21 2005).avi 

Triple H vs Ric Flair (Survivor Series 2005 Last Man Standing match).avi 

JBL vs Big Show - Barbed Wire Steel Cage - WWE Championship - No Way Out 2005.avi 

Batista vs Triple H (Vengeance 2005 Hell in a Cell match, World Heavyweight Championship).avi 

Matt Hardy vs Edge (Unforgiven 2005 Steel cage match).avi 

John Cena vs Chris Jericho vs Christian - WWE Championship - Vengeance 2005.avi 

Hulk Hogan & Shawn Michaels vs Daivari & Muhammed Hassan - Backlash 2005.avi 

Randy Orton vs The Undertaker - Legend Killer vs Legend - WrestleMania 21.avi 

Randy Orton vs The Undertaker - Summerslam 2005.avi 

John Cena vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship - Summerslam 2005.avi 

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2005 ).avi 

The Undertaker vs Heidenreich - Casket Match - Royal Rumble 2005.avi 

2005 Judgment Day - Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio.avi 

Edge vs Shawn Michaels - Royal Rumble 2005.avi 

2005 Great American Bash - Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio.avi 

JBL vs John Cena - WWE Championship - WrestleMania 21.avi 

John Cena vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship Opportunity At WrestleMania 21 - No Way Out 2005.avi 

John Cena vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship - Unforgiven 2005.avi 

Chris Benoit vs Edge (Backlash 2005).avi 

Batista vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship - Backlash 2005.avi 

Chris Benoit vs Booker T - United States Championship - Match 4 of the Best of 7 Series - Armageddon 2005.avi 

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Winner gets Custody of Dominick - Ladder Match - Summerslam 2005.avi 

JBL vs Rey Mysterio - No Mercy 2005.avi 

Chris Jericho, Edge, Shelton Benjamin, Chris Benoit, Christian (with Tyson Tomko) and Kane (WrestleMania 21 2005 Money in the Bank ladder match).avi 

Kurt Angle vs JBL vs Big Show - WWE Championship - Royal Rumble 2005.avi 

Kane vs Edge - Vengeance 2005.avi 

Kurt Angle vs John Cena - WWE Championship - Special Guest Referee Daivari - Survivor Series 2005.avi 

Chris Benoit vs Booker T vs Christian vs Orlando Jordan - United States Championship - No Mercy 2005.avi 

Shawn Michaels vs John Cena vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship - Taboo Tuesday 2005.avi 

Kane vs Gene Snitsky - New Year's Revolution 2005.avi 

2005 No Way Out - Basham Brothers vs. Eddie Guerrero & Rey Mysterio.avi 

Shawn Michaels vs Chris Masters - Unforgiven 2005.avi 

Carlito vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinental Championship - Vengeance 2005.avi 

Batista vs JBL - No Holds Barred - World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2005.avi 

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - WrestleMania 21.avi 

Matt Hardy & Rey Mysterio vs Chris Masters & Snitsky - Taboo Tuesday 2005.avi 

Mr. Kennedy vs Hardcore Holly - No Mercy 2005.avi 

Booker T vs Kurt Angle - Judgment Day 2005.avi 

Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit - One Night Stand 2005.avi 

Chris Benoit vs Booker T - Match 1 In a Best of 7 Match Series - United States Championship - Survivor Series 2005.avi 

Chris Benoit vs Orlando Jordan - United States Championship - The Great American Bash 2005.avi 

Batista & Rey Mysterio vs Kane & Big Show - SmackDown vs Raw - Armageddon 2005.avi 

Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka (ECW One Night Stand 2005).avi 

Juventud vs Nunzio - Cruiserweight Championship - No Mercy 2005.avi 

Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho - Intercontinental Championship - Backlash 2005.avi 

Ric Flair vs Carlito - Intercontinental Championship - Unforgiven 2005.avi 

MNM vs L.O.D. & Christy Hemme - No Mercy 2005.avi 

Booker T vs Christian - The Great American Bash 2005.avi 

MNM vs Mexicools - Armageddon 2005.avi 

Chavo Guerrero vs Funaki vs Paul London vs Spike Dudley vs Shannon Moore vs Akio - Cruiserweight Open Elimination Match - Cruiserweight Championship - No Way Out 2005.avi 

Hardcore Holly & Charlie Haas vs MNM - WWE Tag Team Championship - Judgment Day 2005.avi 

Paul London vs Chavo Guerrero - Cruiserweight Championship - Judgment Day 2005.avi 

Kane & The Big Show vs Trevor Murdoch & Lance Cade - World Tag Team Championship - Taboo Tuesday 2005.avi 

Kid Kash vs Juventud - Cruiserweight Championship - Armageddon 2005.avi 

Carlito vs Mankind - Taboo Tuesday 2005.avi 

Chris Jericho vs Lance Storm - One Night Stand 2005.avi


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Whoa whoa whoa ..... No Big Show vs Snitsky from Unforgiven 2005 ?

On way back back into the city now for the week, the first thing on tap being the Taker-Kane HIAC that I fell asleep during last night, not that the match is boring or anything ...... Then it's Royal Rumble 2013 on tap unfortunately, this is going to be such a shitty day to watch some matches .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> We NEED Punk/Trips again. With no fucking Nash to ruin everything


Need? More like need keep Punk away from Game for the rest of his career.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Need? More like need keep Punk away from Game for the rest of his career.


I enjoyed their NOC brawl, it was just a fun match. Till it was ruined by ludicrous amounts of interference.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trips is like a killer of interest though. I'd like to care for a Punk program. One vs Triple H again wouldn't do anything for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm confident that we're getting Trips-Punk for the simple fact that If trips doesn't retire for good this year (which I highly, highly doubt), Punk's the only one left out of the "big six" of Taker, Rock, Cena, Brock, Game, and Punk for him to take on in a big match setting, unless god forbid we get rematch rematch mania in which case I'd probably asphyxiate myself with an extension cord :lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My Top 20 WWE Matches from 2007:

1. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Wrestlemania 23 *(****3/4)*
2. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WWE Championship) - RAW 4/23/07 *(****1/2)*
3. John Cena vs. Umaga (for the WWE Championship) - Royal Rumble 2007 - Last Man Standing Match *(****1/2)*
4. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WWE Championship) - Wrestlemania 23 *(****1/4)*
5. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - Survivor Series 2007 *(****1/4)*
6. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - Backlash 2007 *(****1/4)*
7. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Backlash 2007 - Last Man Standing Match *(****)*
8. Triple H vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - No Mercy 2007 - Last Man Standing Match *(****)*
9. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge - RAW 1/22/07 - Street Fight *(****)*
10. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Survivor Series 2007 - HIAC *(***3/4)*
11. The Hardyz vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team (for the World Tag Team Championships) - One Night Stand 2007 - Ladder Match *(***3/4)*
12. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Cyber Sunday 2007 *(***3/4)*
13. Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H - Armageddon 2007 *(***3/4)*
14. Triple H vs. Umaga - Cyber Sunday 2007 - Street Fight *(***3/4)*
15. Team Triple H vs. Team Umaga - Survivor Series 2007 - Traditional Survivor Series Match *(***1/2)*
16. John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley (for the WWE Championship) - The Great American Bash 2007 *(***1/2)*
17. Edge vs. Randy Orton - RAW 4/30/07 *(***1/2)*
18. John Cena vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - Summerslam 2007 *(***1/2)*
19. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Smackdown 5/11/07 - Steel Cage Match *(***1/4)*
20. CM Punk vs. John Morrison vs. The Miz (for the ECW Championship) - Survivor Series 2007 *(***1/4)*



> *Honorable Mentions:*
> Rey Mysterio vs. Finlay - Cyber Sunday 2007 - Stretcher Match
> Shawn Michaels vs. Mr Kennedy - Armageddon 2007
> John Cena vs. John Morrison - ECW 6/29/07
> ...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Very good choices for a 2007 top 10. I'll post mine later, but it should be fairly identical, with matches for the most part just switched around and rated a little higher/lower than others.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Hardys vs MNM from Rumble or Jeff Hardy vs Umaga from GAB on the list?

Those are two clear cut favorites of mine from '07.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Pretty good, I'd have the NWO tag alot higher and HBK-Cena as MOTY but not a whole bunch to complain about though. Fuck 2007, worst fucking year ever .

The GAB 2007 match is the one with the amazing finishing sequence where Jeff takes the Samoan spike as of he just got shot right ? That match is fucking awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got to concur with KOK here. Wasn't exactly my favorite looking back. Or heck even during it. Recall TV shows being VERY weak for the majority.

Oh, remembered Undertaker vs Finlay from Smackdown happened. That should make a list too. Probably a lot more from Finlay, tbhayley.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena/Umaga would be my MOTY and Cena/HBK Wrestlemania would likely be top 3. Definitely concur that the Cena/HBK vs Batista/Taker NWO tag should be around the top 10/15. 

Also going to be my quirky self and say Finlay/Hardy 6/22/07 would be a top 3 match for me from the year. Better than Cena/HBK from London as far as TV matches go and I'd only put Cena/Umaga and possibly Cena/HBK (need a rewatch tbh) ahead of it. I can see certain matches appealing to others more, but for me Hardy's babyface performance is only 2nd to Cena at the Rumble, Hardy's limb and expressive selling is arguably better than Cena at the Rumble, Finlay's performance as a heel off memory wasn't bettered by anyone else and the entire structure, pacing and work from both is flawless. Doubt more than a couple of people who regularly post in this thread would even put it top 10 for the year, but christ if it isn't everything I want from a wrestling match these days. 

Immensely prefer it to HBK/Orton, Batista/Taker, HHH/Orton & Cena/Orton Summerslam from a stylistic point of view and think the work from both men surpasses anything achieved by the other matches, though I should point out I like those three matches plenty for what they are.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck that year, the only things about it post backlash are JOHN CENA (until he gets hurt) and well..... Even he was feuding with uninteresting people such as lashley and khali. Too much of guys who I despise like Carlito as well. There were positives like there is every year, but for the most part it wasn't satisfying at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't sure if the Finlay/Hardy match was from '07 or '06. It's high in my book too. Much more than overrated nonsense like Undertaker vs Batista in the Cell. Which is SOOO boring.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Wayyyyy too high on Batista/Taker from Mania for me. 

Great match, battle of the titans but *****1/4* at most. HBK/Cena is better from that night.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Wasn't sure if the Finlay/Hardy match was from '07 or '06. It's high in my book too. Much more than overrated nonsense like Undertaker vs Batista in the Cell. Which is SOOO boring.


I get its a match that people will probably struggle to wrap their head around and I'm fully expecting the spectacle and storytelling of HBK/Orton or HHH/Orton to be perceived as substantially greater, but I really don't think Michaels has a performance close to what Hardy achieves in the Smackdown match and only Cena's transcendent performance @ at the Rumble is fucking with Matt in the 6/22 match. Finlay works creatively and in such a violent manner and makes every hold and submission work in the greater context and Matt's selling makes every little moment feel excruciatingly horrific and even the abrupt finish feels satisfying in making Finlay's work feel successful enough to rob Matt of the chance to make a prolonged comeback. Its right there with Christian/Swagger 2/24/09 in terms of bell to bell obliterating the big PPV spectacles from the year based solely on subtle but engrossing ringwork without the need for an elaborate storyline or stipulation to entice the viewer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Really do think some people put certain matches on a pedestal only b/c they occur at a PPV. Only reason why Finlay/Matt would feel like an "unusual" pick is b/c it happened on Smackdown and wasn't apart of a major angle in the year. Which is HIGHLY bogus in my opinion. Found so many gems as it is to where I would and do prefer over some big time matches. It's about the content and quality for me. Not name value or hype.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena had a good match with fucking KHALI in 2007, that's fucked up. 

That's better than Punk carrying Ryback to a damn near classic match (TLC MATCH) ..... MAYBE.

Oh man I'm feeling that for sure, so many awesome matches get overlooked because it happened on a SD or RAW episode.... For instance just taking a look at this year, way more people are going to speak highly of Shield vs Cena/Jericho/Ryback despite the fact that the Jericho tag that happened the next night is arguably better. 

The only time I've seen a TV match considered superior to its PPV counterpart might be HBK-Cena from London, which isn't even on the same breath as the mania 23 match as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena had a good match with fucking KHALI in 2007, that's fucked up.


He did? I guess if you go by Khali's standards it (I'm assuming you're talking about Judgment Day) was good. They were better than expected but still not good. Cena/Lashley Great American Bash that year is a good match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Really do think some people put certain matches on a pedestal only b/c they occur at a PPV. Only reason why Finlay/Matt would feel like an "unusual" pick is b/c it happened on Smackdown and wasn't apart of a major angle in the year. Which is HIGHLY bogus in my opinion. Found so many gems as it is to where I would and do prefer over some big time matches. It's about the content and quality for me. Not name value or hype.


Exactly. Like, I appreciate those who adore Michaels will be hard pressed to ignore his Survivor Series performance in favour of a throwaway TV match from June, but shit if someone can find me a better babyface Michaels performance from that year that surpasses Matt in the 6/22 match I'd love to see it. While we're at it anyone who can find a more investing and interesting control segment and character work than Finlay in the same match will have unearthed some gem because I can't think of one. There's good storytelling and pacing to develop the match from the beginning to to leg dissection once Finlay spots an opening and they work majestically together to get you to care about a match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Batista was the better match in my opinion because it only got 15 minutes, no one expected much from it and Batista isn't that great of a worker. Cena/Michaels was good too but Cena completely no selling the knee at the end really brings it down for me, On top of that, they got double the time Taker/Batista had.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I did have Edge/Orton and Edge/HBK on my list and they were TV matches. Lashley/Cena was awesome, much better than Orton/Cena at the next event.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena's selling of the knee and the incessent debate over it still boggles my mind. Shawn works over it for such a mini portion of the match I don't see why people harp on about Cena eventually shrugging it off. He sells it great when the work is happening and even shakes the leg loose in between moves later to give the perception its still a nagging injury, but by the time Shawn abandons it and works more bigger spots I feel its natural that Cena gradually overcomes the injury. Its never felt like a control segment by Michaels to me, but rather a mini segment of the match devoted to Michaels working on top, controlling and schooling Cena to fit the story and working a basic limb. If Shawn had made it his centre focus for the duration of the bout then Cena resisting the desire to sell it would feel acceptable, but gradually moving more freely when the brief work is forgotten about? I don't see that criticism.

People should watch Finlay/Hardy btw. Swear to christ only 5 people in here might actually have watched it and a couple infrequenty post here anyway.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I meant that the JD 07 match for Khali would be like a five star match for every other worker on planet earth, even though I only have it at *** 3/4* , that's the extent of Khali's in ring "prowess" :lol


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Khali/Cena is very good irrelevant of who Cena and Khali are. Granted it's nearly all Cena carrying Khali but Khali has some good stuff in it. It's around ***1/2-****.*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I meant that the JD 07 match for Khali would be like a five star match for every other worker on planet earth, even though I only have it at *** 3/4* , that's the extent of Khali's in ring "prowess" :lol


Khali's best match is with Taker on SD in a Last Man Standing Match. It's at ****1/4* for me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

While Cena's efforts to chop down the giant and slay another monster is admirable work in the storytelling of the match, I just didn't find the offense or selling from either man that engaging.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll rate WrestlingFan's '07 list:

1. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Wrestlemania 23 *****1/4*
2. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WWE Championship) - RAW 4/23/07 *****1/4*
3. John Cena vs. Umaga (for the WWE Championship) - Royal Rumble 2007 - Last Man Standing Match *****1/4*
4. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WWE Championship) - Wrestlemania 23 *****1/4*
5. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - Survivor Series 2007 ****3/4*
6. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - Backlash 2007 *****1/4*
7. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Backlash 2007 - Last Man Standing Match ******
8. Triple H vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - No Mercy 2007 - Last Man Standing Match ******
9. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge - RAW 1/22/07 - Street Fight ****3/4*
10. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Survivor Series 2007 - HIAC ****3/4*
11. The Hardyz vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team (for the World Tag Team Championships) - One Night Stand 2007 - Ladder Match ****3/4*
12. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Cyber Sunday 2007 ****1/4*
13. Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H - Armageddon 2007 ****3/4*
14. Triple H vs. Umaga - Cyber Sunday 2007 - Street Fight ****1/2*
15. Team Triple H vs. Team Umaga - Survivor Series 2007 - Traditional Survivor Series Match ****1/2*
16. John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley (for the WWE Championship) - The Great American Bash 2007 ****1/2*
17. Edge vs. Randy Orton - RAW 4/30/07 ****1/2*
18. John Cena vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - Summerslam 2007 ****1/4*
19. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Smackdown 5/11/07 - Steel Cage Match *****
20. CM Punk vs. John Morrison vs. The Miz (for the ECW Championship) - Survivor Series 2007 *****

As others have said, pretty poor year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Meh, id rate HBK/HHH over HBK/Razor. I seriously think HBK/Razor might be the most overrated match on this forum. Not saying it's bad , but I don't agree with it's the GOAT ladder match. I have 3 better ladder matches than that
> 
> 
> Benoit/Jericho RR 01
> ...


You have to view the HBK/Razor Ladder matches in proper context, they raised the bar for the other ones to follow


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

1. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Wrestlemania 23 *****1/4*
2. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WWE Championship) - RAW 4/23/07 *****1/2*
3. John Cena vs. Umaga (for the WWE Championship) - Royal Rumble 2007 - Last Man Standing Match ******
4. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels (for the WWE Championship) - Wrestlemania 23 *****1/2*
5. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - Survivor Series 2007 *****1/4*
6. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels - Backlash 2007 *****1/4*
7. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Backlash 2007 - Last Man Standing Match ****3/4*
8. Triple H vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - No Mercy 2007 - Last Man Standing Match ****3/4*
9. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge - RAW 1/22/07 - Street Fight ****1/2*
10. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Survivor Series 2007 - HIAC ****1/2*
11. The Hardyz vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team (for the World Tag Team Championships) - One Night Stand 2007 - Ladder Match needs a rewatch
12. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Cyber Sunday 2007 ****3/4*
13. Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H - Armageddon 2007 needs a rewatch
14. Triple H vs. Umaga - Cyber Sunday 2007 - Street Fight needs a rewatch
15. Team Triple H vs. Team Umaga - Survivor Series 2007 - Traditional Survivor Series Match *****
16. John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley (for the WWE Championship) - The Great American Bash 2007 *****
17. Edge vs. Randy Orton - RAW 4/30/07 needs a rewatch
18. John Cena vs. Randy Orton (for the WWE Championship) - Summerslam 2007 ****1/2*
19. Undertaker vs. Batista (for the WHC) - Smackdown 5/11/07 - Steel Cage Match ****1/4*
20. CM Punk vs. John Morrison vs. The Miz (for the ECW Championship) - Survivor Series 2007 ***1/2*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

2008 list coming tomorrow after that i'll most likely do a 2001 list considering that was when Austin was on fire with quality matches.

@AlienBountyHunter

Agree, Pretty poor year. Dem injuries really hurt the 'E'


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> 2008 list coming tomorrow after that i'll most likely do a 2001 list considering that was when Austin was on fire with quality matches.
> 
> @AlienBountyHunter
> 
> Agree, Pretty poor year. Dem injuries really hurt the 'E'


A 2001 list should be great fun. That might be my favourite year of all time along with 2000. Looking forward to it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> A 2001 list should be great fun. That might be my favourite year of all time along with 2000. Looking forward to it.


How your list(s) coming along?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> How your list(s) coming along?


I've only been rating yours really. Mine probably wouldn't be too dissimilar, just a few changes and some stuff moving position. I might get around to putting some up soon but I'm still watching and reviewing a few Edge matches. I'll post a few reviews of those later.

I'm a bit OCD so if I was going to do a 'best of' list I'd probably want to go through every match of that year to make sure I didn't miss anything out.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I've only been rating yours really. Mine probably wouldn't be too dissimilar, just a few changes and some stuff moving position. I might get around to putting some up soon but I'm still watching and reviewing a few Edge matches. I'll post a few reviews of those later.
> 
> I'm a bit OCD so if I was going to do a 'best of' list I'd probably want to go through every match of that year to make sure I didn't miss anything out.


Looking forward to the Edge matches, A personal favorite of mine is his match with HBK at Royal Rumble 2005.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched The Undertaker vs Kane from Hell in a Cell 2010 and I wrote down some thoughts about it pour vous.

*World Heavyweight Championship - Kane(c) vs The Undertaker (W/Paul Bearer) (Hell in a Cell) : Hell in a Cell 2010*

Once upon a time (earlier today actually) I said that this match is okay because it's Taker-Kane in the cell like it was meant to be and that everybody should watch this match... What the fuck was I smoking (besides weed) ? This is truly one of the more baffling matches out there as it's THE UNDERTAKER VS KANE INSIDE THE HELL IN A CELL, HOW DID THEY FUCK THIS UP ? Well, let me explain how.

First of all, it's dull as fuck. It's just shitty brawling for the most part with Kane working The Undertaker's left leg of all places for a majority of the match ; because when I think HELL in a cell, I think of leg locks. I swear that this match was just one long leg work segment by Kane, because that's how it felt for the most part. There isn't really any sequence or structure to this one at all, making it hard for me to keep my full attention on it.

Secondly, it isn't violent. I had issue with the Sheamus-Orton match because they decided to have a street fight inside the cell instead of fighting in a proper cell match, but at least that match was somewhat violent in it's own way despite the poor use of the cell. This match, GOD DAMN does it need violence badly. They hit each other, Kane works the leg, they hit each other some more, climaxing spots, finish. That's essentially the entire fucking match right there... BUT OH I FORGOT, Kane gets a minor and barely visible gash on the back of his head here because he's HARDCORE and we really need to get across how this is HELL. Give me a fucking break, they barely do anything that resembles a normal NO DQ match, let alone the greatest gimmick match and feud ender ever.

Last, but certainly not least, Paul Bearer & more importantly the finish. WE FUCKING KNEW PAUL BEARER WAS TURNING, it was almost as obvious as Big Show's SHOCKING (and I say SHOCKING) turn at Over the Limit 2012 in the sense that you say to yourself "just fucking do it, get it over with". I don't factor booking into ratings whatsoever, but I had to throw out Bearer's involvement for one reason ; that fucking finish. I swear to god, never in my entire life have I seen a finish to a match that was so fucking retarded. Bearer shines a magic/mystical light in Undertaker's face, blinding him so that Kane can take advantage for the win ? When the fuck have the lights EVER GONE OUT DURING THE CLIMAX OF A MATCH ? One of the most mind blowingly retarded things you'll ever see.

So there you have it, my review of leg work in a cell. It was dull, it wasn't violent, IT WAS TWENTY ONE FUCKING MINUTES LONG, the match didn't suit the gimmick or the feud well at all, and if you're going to watch a Taker-Kane match from 2010 just stick to the really good NOC match from the month before. This was the last time Smackdown main evented a PPV and I can't say I blame the WWE after this atrocity. 

On a positive note, it's still not the worst cell match.

*DUD*​


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Guys , what year you think was the worst for match quality? Precisely when I started watching 96-13. My vote is going to 1999.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Here's the first Edge/Jericho match review from me. I've got another one coming later.

*Edge vs Chris Jericho - Raw May 2nd 2005 (Gold Rush Tournament)*

Ok, the Gold Rush tournament was great and this Raw was great but this match wasn't quite as good as I remember. Following the brief opening exchanges, both men get in each others faces with Y2J mocking Edge and Edge coming back with obvious heel tactics such as thumbs to the eyes and hair pulling. Edge is getting obvious 'you screwed Matt' chants, and this was while Matt wasn't a member of the roster. Jericho traps Edge in the corner and uses the turnbuckle to his advantage by slamming Edge's head into it a number of times. Edge then takes control after pushing Jericho off the top rope and to the outside, following that up by working briefly on his back.

Jericho comes back with some strikes off the ropes and gets a near fall with a hurricanrana. Y2J doesn't sell his back at all which hurts the match a little, but Edge only worked on it briefly so it's not too much of a fuss. Edge rolls out of the ring and grabs his MITB briefcase hoping to use it. Referee Hebner stops him on the apron and Y2J takes advantage by hitting a springboard dropkick. Jericho works Edge over on the outside before bringing him back in the ring. He misses Edge off the top rope, but counters his spear attempt into the Walls Of Jericho, but Edge makes it to the ropes. Y2J complains and while the refs back is turned Edge clocks him with the briefcase. He hits a missile dropkick off the top that only gets a 2 count, before finishing Jericho off with the spear.

This match was ok, but was limited by the amount of time given to both guys. They didn't really get to mix it up in the ring much and the finish came pretty quickly. It was over shadowed by a few matches that night (mainly Shelton/HBK) but it was still solid.

***3/4*


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

CM Punk vs Ryback (TLC Match) - **3/4

Solid match actually. At first I thought this match would be all about Ryback dominating, but Punk actually put up a hell of a fight. I loved how they showed his experience in TLC matches. Using the chair to get the upper hand, jumping of the steel steps to knock Ryback down, and side stepping Ryback through a table setup at the ringside. 

Ryback put up a good fight as well. He used his power to suplex Punk on the ladder, and slam him over his head on a ladder as well. He even threw Punk out of the ring through a table as well. The end with the shield was predictable, but that Powerbomb through a table and steel steps they gave him was sick. 

Overall it is a pretty decent match, but nothing special. The spots were nothing out of the ordinary, and are considered kind of weak for a TLC match in my opinion. The predictable ending with the Shield also kind of hurt the match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I actually really like both Punk-Ryback matches.

The first one actually used the HIAC in a psychological sense with Punk trying to use a whole bunch of tricks to outsmart Ryback and escape the beast he's locked inside the cell with. The storytelling was really solid I felt and 99 percent of that was in Punk's selling of Ryback as a legit threat to the title.

The second one was awesome, end of story. Punk's selling of the knee was fantastic, Ryback's offense didn't suck complete dick, and Punk had a really awesome control segment where he made it believable that he could take this big man down. Big time feel and for Punk's return from injury with RYBACK of all people it was really, really, really awesome.

HIAC : *****
TLC : **** 3/4*

For what it's worth, I think the Punk-Ryback match is in the shuffle for my current WWE MOTY with the two SHIELD matches and Punk-Jericho. We've gotten some really good TV matches so far this year, feeling that in all honesty.

Decided to forgo RR 13 in order to begin watching THE DUNGEON COLLECTION. A few good, but clipped matches to start us off but I just got finished with Hart-Dynamite from 85 and Bret fucking ruled that match with his heel work. Cue the 4 out of 10 jokes.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk vs Ryback:

HIAC: **
TLC: ***3/4


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk/Ryback:

HIAC: ***1/2*
TLC: ****1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Really enjoyed the Punk-Ryback program. I normally can't stand Ryback but the WWE has done alot to mask his deficiencies as a worker in recent months from putting him with Punk, Punk/Cena, and in multi man tags with THE SHIELD. 

If his match against Henry at Wrestlemania goes 3-6 minutes it's going to be fucking AWESOME. Anything 8 minutes or over will probably suck, although I'm sure Henry's gonna muster up a boss control segment leading to a big Wrestlemania moment. Strangely looking forward to it just because it's MARK HENRY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Punk vs Ryback:

HIAC: **3/4
TLC: ***1/2 from 1st watch


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Guys , what year you think was the worst for match quality? Precisely when I started watching 96-13. My vote is going to 1999.


It's gotta be either '98 or '99. Off the top of my head I really can't think of ANY ****+ matches from '98 (maybe Rock/HHH ladder?) and '99 has a small handful, most of which involve the same two guys. 

Punk/Ryback TLC - *** 1/4. Fun match but Ryback looked fucking dangerous (in a bad way). Haven't seen the HIAC yet.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Edge vs Chris Jericho - Raw March 8th 2005*

This was the night the MITB match was announced for WM21, so there was a ladder set up at ringside as a tease for that match. This match starts off with some nice technical grappling, both men countering arm bars and wrist locks. Jericho stops Edge escaping his hold though and grounds him with arm bar, and continues to work on Edge's arm throughout the match (which is taped up slightly). He has Edge caught in the cross-armbreaker before Edge escapes. Y2J tries to choke Edge out on the ropes, Edge moves out of the way but Jericho hits the springboard dropkick to knock him to the outside. A suicide dive to Edge before cutting to break.

Jericho is still in control back in the ring and continues to work on Edge's arm, and Edge sells it very well throughout the match. Y2J wants to go up top but Edge cuts him down and hits a awkward but painful looking superplex. Edge baseball slides Jericho to the outside and into the ladder, before grounding him back inside the ring with an armbar of his own. Jericho is able to escape and brings some offense of his own, hitting Edge with some strikes and a DDT. The match picks up now as both men exchange big moves, until the referee is knocked down.

Edge goes for the Spear but Y2J avoids it and knocks him to the outside. Edge retrieves the ladder sitting at ringside and drives it straight into Jericho's nuts. Whether that was the intended spot he aimed for I'm not sure. Edge picks him up, flattens him with the Edge-cution and the referee comes to and counts the 3.

A better match than the one I reviewed earlier. The opening few minutes was excellent and surprisingly technical. Edge's arm was taped up because of his street fight with HBK the week before, and Jericho targeting it was smart and Edge sold it well. Some good high impact moves later in the match kept the pace up, but the finish was average. Smart to give Edge the win though since he'd obviously go on to win the MITB ladder match at 'Mania.

****1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****+ matches from 98:

HBK/Undertaker RR
Kane/Undertaker WM
Austin/Dude Love OTE
Undertaker/Mankind KOTR

****+ matches from 99:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

98 is superior to 99 in a ton of ways.

98 had the following ; HBK-Taker (casket), HBK-Austin, Austin-Foley, Taker-Foley HIAC.

99 had Rock-Austin @ BL, and Taker-Austin from Fully Loaded.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The most entertaining part of '99 was the over the top storylines and characters, match quality, bar a couple of exeptions, not so much.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> 98 is superior to 99 in a ton of ways.
> 
> 98 had the following ; HBK-Taker (casket), HBK-Austin, Austin-Foley, Taker-Foley HIAC.
> 
> 99 had Rock-Austin @ BL, and Taker-Austin from Fully Loaded.


Yeah, totally drew a blank on '98. None of those ever spring to mind cause it's been so long since I've seen any of them and I was 6 when all of them occurred. Both years are pretty shit though, tbh. 

BUT, Test/Shane from Summerslam '99 needs more love!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How the fuck did I forget the HIAC match and the awesomely awesome Dude/Austin match for 98?

*hits self in face for being stupid*


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Big Z said:


> ****+ matches from 98:
> 
> HBK/Undertaker RR
> Kane/Undertaker WM
> ...




Agreed. 99 just sucked. I never cared for any Austin/Taker match at all. It seems like they've never really clicked in any match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

January 2000 is better than 1999 as a whole .

Man there's a random Andre-Bret match on here from Milan and it's some of the grainiest footage you'll ever see on a WWE release. Bret plays a decent babyface and actually gets a decent match out of Andre who by this point had vastly eroding skills.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> 98 is superior to 99 in a ton of ways.
> 
> 98 had the following ; HBK-Taker (casket), HBK-Austin, Austin-Foley, Taker-Foley HIAC.
> 
> 99 had Rock-Austin @ BL, and Taker-Austin from Fully Loaded.


99 also had the unforgettable ladder match between Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys/New Brood at No Mercy. Oh, and The Rock vs. Mankind I Quit Match at Rumble.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

God I'm so excited to watch the Dungeon Collection. Probably gonna start it tonight. :mark:

We NEED a Ric Flair equivalent next year though. Make it like 8 discs.  Nikita, Wahoo, Windham, Steamboat, Savage, etc. So much unreleased goodness still out there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My guess is that they'll do one every year for a bunch of guys.

The big one would obviously be Flair (NEEDS TO HAPPEN), but I see HBK/Austin/Taker getting Unreleased match sets out before him TBH. Actually, it'll probably be Austin since they need to keep making money off of him and they already did the BIG DVD with him.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Agreed on Flair getting another DVD set and the Unreleased Series/Collection would be perfect for a wrestler with as deep a list of great gems many have not seen yet and others just waiting to be released in the best quality available. I would love to see the Hawaii match with Kerry Von Erich, Battle of The Belts II with Barry Windham, the cage match with Ron Garvin at Starrcade 87, WCW Saturday Night '94 with Ricky Steamboat, and versus Sting at World War 3 all on a DVD like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1999 has The ROCK vs Undertaker from King of the Ring. Automatically the greatest year ever.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, agree with KOK about the guys who will get a DVD collection similar to the Dungeon Collection. I was thinking about that the other day, and I think HBK and Taker will definitely get one. I would think Austin, too. But when they released his latest documentary in late 2011, I think they announced that that was the last DVD Austin was getting, as ridiculous as that would be. Hopefully, it's not, though. Anywho, I'm looking forward to an HBK (and others) collection very much.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So since I said I'd post it later... and it's now later... here's my top 20 from 2007:

(****1/2)
1) Undertaker vs. Batista Wrestlemania 23
2) John Cena vs. Umaga Royal Rumble
3) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels Raw in London
4) Undertaker vs. Batista Cyber Sunday
(****1/4)
5) Edge vs. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton Backlash
6) Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton Survivor Series
7) Undertaker vs. Batista Survivor Series 
8) Edge vs. Randy Orton Raw after Backlash
9) CM Punk vs. John Morrison ECW 9/1/2007
(****)
10) Undertaker vs. Finlay Smackdown 3/9/2007 (highest match at ****)
11) Undertaker vs. Batista Backlash
12) John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 23
13) Undertaker and Batista vs. John Cena and Shawn Michaels No Way Out
14) John Cena vs. Randy Orton Summerslam
15) Randy Orton vs. Triple H No Mercy Last Man Standing Match
(***3/4)
16) Undertaker vs. Batista Smackdown Steel Cage
17) John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley The Great American Bash
18) Edge and Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels and Triple H New Year's Revolution
19) Undertaker vs. Edge vs. Batista Armageddon
20) HBK vs. Mr. Kennedy Armageddon


And since I saw 2008 mentioned, here's my top 20 for that:

(****3/4)
1) Undertaker vs. Edge Summerslam
(****1/2)
2) Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho No Mercy (highest match at ****1/2)
(****1/4)
3) Undertaker vs. Edge Wrestlemania 24
4) Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho Judgement Day
5) Undertaker vs. Big Show Cyber Sunday
6) CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Carlito vs. MVP vs. Mr. Kennedy vs. John Morrison Wrestlemania 24
7) Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H No Mercy
(****)
8) Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair Wrestlemania 24
9) Batista vs. John Cena Summerslam
10) Randy Orton vs. John Cena No Way Out
11) John Cena vs. Triple H Night of Champions
12) Undertaker vs. Edge Backlash
13) Shawn Michaels vs. Batista One Night Stand
14) Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho Unforgiven 2008
15) CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio Armageddon
16) Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Umaga NWO 2008
(***3/4)
17) Undertaker vs. Big Show No Mercy
18) Undertaker vs. Kane Smackdown after Wrestlemania
19) Randy Orton vs. Jeff Hardy Royal Rumble 2008
20) Edge vs. Batista Night of Champions 2008


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena vs HBK from Wrestlemania XXIII @ Number TWELVE ?

Next you're going to tell me that Wade Barrett is GOOD or something.

unk2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena vs HBK from Wrestlemania XXIII @ Number TWELVE ?
> 
> Next you're going to tell me that Wade Barrett is GOOD or something.
> 
> unk2


:barrett1

Edit: On a serious note, never got the extreme love for the match. It's great and all and worthy of the WM Main event spot it got, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near *****, wouldn't call it a classic either, or the best match at Mania that, or the best HBK/Cena match (the last two you can tell from the list anyway). Used to have it at ****1/4 but on last re-watch, which was within the last two years, it just didn't hold up as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2007 top 20:

1. Batista vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 23 - ★★★★½
2. John Cena vs Umaga - Royal Rumble - ★★★★½
3. Randy Orton vs Triple H - No Mercy - ★★★★½
4. John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels vs Edge - Backlash - ★★★★½
5. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 23/4 - ★★★★½
6. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - Survivor Series - ★★★★¼
7. Undertaker vs Batista - Cyber Sunday - ★★★★¼
8. John Cena vs Randy Orton - SummerSlam - ★★★★
9. Undertaker vs Batista - Backlash - ★★★★
10. John Cena vs Bobby Lashley - The Great American Bash - ★★★★
11. Undertaker vs Batista - Smackdown - ★★★¾
12. Rated RKO vs DX - New Year's Revolution - ★★★¾
13. Randy Orton vs Edge - Raw 30/4 - ★★★¾
14. John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23 - ★★★½
15. John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker & Batista - No Way Out - ★★★½
16. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - Cyber Sunday - ★★★½
17. Undertaker vs Batista - Survivor Series - ★★★½
18. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho - Armageddon - ★★★½ 
19. Chris Benoit vs MVP - Wrestlemania 23 - ★★★¼
20. Batista vs Edge - Smackdown 29/6 - ★★★¼

Still haven't watched a lot of matches, so this list is very limited. And before KOK questions #13, I'll just say that I didn't like it as much as I thought in the first watch a while back and it's on my list of matches to rewatch so things might change.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena vs HBK from Wrestlemania XXIII @ Number FOURTEEN ?

Next you're going to tell me that CM Punk isn't the best of this generation.

unk2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena vs HBK from Wrestlemania XXIII @ Number FOURTEEN ?
> 
> Next you're going to tell me that CM Punk isn't the best of this generation.
> 
> unk2


If Orton and Cena don't count, Sheamus and Bryan are definitely the best of this generation. At least from ones who I give a fuck about. What a shit generation, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)




----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lol

How many minutes does this take?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Seriously sheamus better than punk? SMH.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Sheamus and Punk i'd say are on par with each other for 2012 work, both had amazing years.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Like 3 seconds :lol

http://www.memegeneokerlund.com/character/bret-hart-not-impressed

"Unimpressed Bret" is my favorite meme ever, not going to lie. I've seen like 3000 different ones already and when they're good, they're SPOT ON. We need his face right there made into a smiley .


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Sheamus is a good in ring worker, but that's it. The worst character and one of the worst on the mic in wwe today.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Sheamus and Punk i'd say are on par with each other for 2012 work, both had amazing years.


Sheamus's feud with ADR destroyed what could have been a great reign


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hopefully we'll see Sheamus/Punk in a feud this year.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Sheamus's feud with ADR destroyed what could have been a great reign


Yes but during the feud Sheamus had many, many good tv matches. Punk had a feud with Ryback 2012/Rock in 2013 but he still managed to get some good tv matches in places.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Hopefully we'll see Sheamus/Punk in a feud this year.




Totally agreed. Something real fresh and they could put on some great matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Cena WM ain't that great imo. Could change when I get to it, but right now its ***3/4 for me. WM 17 is where I'm at now, and oh hey, WM 1 review posted on my BLOG~! [/cheap plug]. They will be automatically posted every day at 10:30am GMT, so even if I forget to mention it here until later in the day (and I WILL be plugging this shit every day ), the reviews will still get posted.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If Brock was more full time, i would have like to have seen Brock/Sheamus at some point tbh, but doubt that'll happen


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Anyone else going to take part in this Monday Night Wars Club thing?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Like 3 seconds :lol
> 
> http://www.memegeneokerlund.com/character/bret-hart-not-impressed
> 
> "Unimpressed Bret" is my favorite meme ever, not going to lie. I've seen like 3000 different ones already and when they're good, they're SPOT ON. We need his face right there made into a smiley .


lol, I'm having a blast laughing at the Lance Storm memes.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Like 3 seconds :lol
> 
> http://www.memegeneokerlund.com/character/bret-hart-not-impressed
> 
> "Unimpressed Bret" is my favorite meme ever, not going to lie. I've seen like 3000 different ones already and when they're good, they're SPOT ON. We need his face right there made into a smiley .


:lol










Think Mr.Hart is being generous there :side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

2007

1. Cena/Umaga - RR - *****
2. HBK/Orton - SSeries - ****1/2
3. Batista/Taker - CS - ****1/2
4. Batista/Taker - WM - ****1/2
5. Edge/Cena/Orton/HBK - Backlash - ****1/2
6. Batista/Taker - SSeries - ****1/4
7. HBK/Cena - WM - ****1/4
8. HBK/Cena - Raw 4/23 - ****1/4
9. Morrison/Punk - ECW 9/4 - ****1/4
10. Edge/Orton - Raw 4/30 - ****
11. Umaga/Hardy - GAB - ****
12. Batista/Taker - Backlash - ****
13. Umaga/Trips - CS - ****
14. Orton/Trips - NM - ****
15. Rated RKO/DX - NYR - ***3/4
16. Cena/Lashley - GAB - ***3/4
17. Taker/Batista vs HBK/Cena - NWO - ***3/4 (Need to rewatch)
18. HBK/Kennedy - Armageddon - ***1/2
19. Taker/Batista - SD Cage - ***1/2
20. MNM/Hardyz - RR - ***1/2

Did that up quick. Haven't seen Taker/Finlay from that year.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

LOL at the Bret Hart memes. "Wrestlemania 20? Meh, I can't even remember who won the main event"


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

'07
1 - Orton/HBK SS <3
2 - Cena/Umaga RR
3 - Cena/HBK/Edge/Orton
4 - Cena/HBK WM 23
5 - Cena/HBK Raw

'Nuff said.

And speaking of Cena...

WM Cena matches:
vs Show - **3/4
vs JBL - 3/4*
vs HHH - ***3/4
vs HBK - ****1/2
vs Orton vs HHH - ***1/2
vs Edge vs Show - ***
vs Batista - ***3/4
vs Miz - 1/2*
vs Rock - ****1/4

Okay run. JBL & Miz matches deepthroat but everything else ranges from alright to amazing.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cena WM

vs Big Show - **1/2
vs JBL - *
vs Triple H - ***3/4
vs HBK - ****1/4
vs Orton vs Trips - ***3/4
vs Big Show vs Edge - ***1/4
vs Batista - ***3/4
vs Miz - DUD
vs Rock - **3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WM Cena matches:*

vs Show - **
vs JBL - cant remember
vs HHH - ***3/4
vs HBK - ****1/2 - maybe a tad higher
vs Orton vs HHH - ***3/4
vs Edge vs Show - ***1/4
vs Batista - ***3/4
vs Miz - 1/2*
vs Rock - ***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

vs Big Show - **
vs JBL - DUD
vs Triple H - ***3/4
vs HBK - ***3/4
vs Orton vs Trips - ***1/4
vs Big Show vs Edge - ***1/4
vs Batista - ***3/4
vs Miz - DUD
vs Rock - **3/4


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> vs Rock - ****1/4


That seems pretty high, ATF. Care to explain?

While we're at it, Cena at WM:

vs Show - **1/2
vs JBL - *
vs HHH - ***1/2
vs HBK - ****1/4
vs Orton vs HHH - ***1/2
vs Edge vs Show - ***
vs Batista - ***1/2
vs Miz - *
vs Rock - **3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That seems pretty high, ATF. Care to explain?
> 
> While we're at it, Cena at WM:
> 
> ...


Atmosphere and giant match feel more than anything. Which are two high factors in my books


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena WM:

vs Big Show - ★★★
vs JBL - ★★
vs Triple H - ★★★★
vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★½
vs Orton vs HHH - ★★★★
vs Edge vs Big Show - ★★★
vs Batista - ★★★½
vs The Moz - ★
vs The ROCK - ★★★★

Just finished watching these two matches as well:

CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (Night of Champions) - ★★½
- Pretty dull other than the finishing sequence with the exchanges as the crowd finally comes to life. Really hope their SummerSlam and cage matches are more enjoyable. This one is the only match to have the right man win, though! 

CM Punk vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - ★★¾
- Better than I remember it being. Still not good enough to make me think they steal the show and put on some super-great match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cena WM:

vs Big Show - **
vs JBL - DUD
vs Triple H - ***1/2
vs HBK - ****1/2
vs Orton vs Trips - ***1/4
vs Big Show vs Edge - ***1/4
vs Batista - ***1/4
vs Miz - DUD
vs Rock - **3/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Of course Cena's best Mania match was with Mr. WrestleMania.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Of course Cena's best Mania match was with Mr. WrestleMania.


But Cena hasn't faced Undertaker at WM yet...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why not? 

Cena WM:

vs Big Show - awful
vs JBL - awful
vs Triple H - ****
vs HBK - ****1/2
vs Orton vs Trips - ***1/2
vs Big Show vs Edge - don't recall
vs Batista - ***
vs Miz - awful
vs Rock - ***1/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> But Cena hasn't faced Undertaker at WM yet...


I hope they finally do it next year.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

> CM Punk vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - ★★¾
> - Better than I remember it being. Still not good enough to make me think they steal the show and put on some super-great match.


I see this so much. Is it really fair to compare that match to what we think we'll see at Wrestlemania? That match was meant to be a quick squash match to end Punk's reign and put him in the dog house. It opened the show and got, what, 14 minutes? Wrestlemania is a completely different situation. Punk is on a much higher level than he was before, and it's fucking Wrestlemania with Undertaker. 

This will be similar to Undertaker/Orton and Undertaker/Edge, in my opinion. Just three times better.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Clique said:


> Of course Cena's best Mania match was with Mr. WrestleMania.


:hbk2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena at the biggun

vs Big Show - *1/2
vs JBL - DUD
vs Triple H - ****1/4
vs HBK - ****1/2
vs Orton vs Trips - **3/4
vs Big Show vs Edge - **1/2
vs Batista - ****
vs Miz - DUD
vs Rock - **1/2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena's pretty hit and miss at Mania. Not expecting much from the match this year either. Hopefully he'll face Taker next year and we'll get a great match there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Depends on the opponent imo. He has been solid if not great on occasion since the Triple H match (aside from Mania 27 and I blame Miz), and I have a feeling this year's rematch vs The Rock will be better than last year's encounter.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I see this so much. Is it really fair to compare that match to what we think we'll see at Wrestlemania? That match was meant to be a quick squash match to end Punk's reign and put him in the dog house. It opened the show and got, what, 14 minutes? Wrestlemania is a completely different situation. Punk is on a much higher level than he was before, and it's fucking Wrestlemania with Undertaker.
> 
> This will be similar to Undertaker/Orton and Undertaker/Edge, in my opinion. Just three times better.


I understand what you mean but one thing that match was not is a squash match. It had been a while since I had seen it so I fell for the "squash match" talk I had heard but Punk looked rather strong. He kicked out of the Last Ride, gave Taker a chair shot to the head (weren't they banned yet?) and worked on his leg for the early portion of the match.

And I have no doubts that they can put on a better match at Mania, just not really believing the "all time classic" talk yet based on what I've seen from their past work together. I also very much doubt they can outdo Orton/Taker but that's not anything to be ashamed of as I hold that match in very high regard and as one of Taker's finest Mania matches. (#5 after HBK I & II, HHH III and Batista)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cena's WM list would look so much better if Punk replaced Miz at WM 27.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I doubt Undertaker/Punk will be better than Undertaker's last 4 WM matches, but I'm still expecting something around **** at the very least. They got that for a SD match in 2010, so WM shouldn't be much of a problem as Undertaker always goes all out to make it the best match possible, and no doubt Punk will raise his game higher than ever before to keep up with the Dead Man that way.

About to watch the main event of WM 17. :mark: still love the My Way video package.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Big Z said:


> I doubt Undertaker/Punk will be better than Undertaker's last 4 WM matches, but I'm still expecting something around **** at the very least. They got that for a SD match in 2010, so WM shouldn't be much of a problem as Undertaker always goes all out to make it the best match possible, and no doubt Punk will raise his game higher than ever before to keep up with the Dead Man that way.
> 
> About to watch the main event of WM 17. :mark: still love the My Way video package.


GOAT Video Package, IMO, despite my complete and utter hatred for Limp Bizkit :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haha, yeah, everyone seems to love the video package complete with that song, but nobody loves the band .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> I doubt Undertaker/Punk will be better than Undertaker's last 4 WM matches, but I'm still expecting something around **** at the very least. They got that for a SD match in 2010, so WM shouldn't be much of a problem as Undertaker always goes all out to make it the best match possible, and no doubt Punk will raise his game higher than ever before to keep up with the Dead Man that way.
> 
> About to watch the main event of WM 17. :mark: still love the My Way video package.


Which match is that 2010 one you keep praising? I watched a match they had from 2010 and it was a 7 minute clean win for Taker that was nowhere near the 4 star quality so you must be talking about another one.

Also Limp Bizkit RULES! Favorite band in early teens and now I'm almost out of my teen years. Time flies. :sad:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I just want cena/taker already. I'm sure punk/taker will be a solid ****	but punk definitely isn't winning.

Now taker/cena? No fucking clue who would win. I'm already expecting close to a *****	match if it happens.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't know what I'd expect from Cena/Taker in another year from now. Taker would be close to 50 years old and he looks out of shape now, as much as I love the guy. If it was a few years ago..


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That WM17 Limp Bizkit video package is fantastic. Didn't they edit that song out on later releases? Luckily I've got WM17 on home-recorded VHS lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I could see a ***** Cena/Taker match simply due to the fact that it'd be one of the most unpredictable Taker Mania matches as far as match-ending is concerned. The drama in that match would be off the charts.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I really wouldn't even expect much from Cena/Taker. Taker would be close to 50 years old and he looks out of shape now, as much as I love the guy.




I said the same exact thing about HHH/taker II and III


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Which match is that 2010 one you keep praising? I watched a match they had from 2010 and it was a 7 minute clean win for Taker that was nowhere near the 4 star quality so you must be talking about another one.
> 
> Also Limp Bizkit RULES! Favorite band in early teens and now I'm almost out of my teen years. Time flies. :sad:


Nah, not that one, that happens after Paul Bearer returns and Undertaker is healthy again. THIS is the one I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrkqTMSbKeU (2 parts to it).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah I could see a ***** Cena/Taker match simply due to the fact that it'd be one of the most unpredictable Taker Mania matches as far as match-ending is concerned. The drama in that match would be off the charts.




indeed, also imagine the fucking atmosphere for that match?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I said the same exact thing about HHH/taker II and III


Ah, I didn't think much of their WM27 match. And if this match did happen Taker would be 3 and 4 years older than those matches. This is the first year since Taker has only wrestled once per year that he looked out of shape to me, at that house show. It'd be "5 stars" for the atmosphere, perhaps.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Ah, I didn't think much of their WM27 match. And if this match did happen Taker would be 3 and 4 years older than those matches. This is the first year since Taker has only wrestled once per year that he looked out of shape to me, at that house show. It'd be "5 stars" for the atmosphere, perhaps.




I actually liked 27 more than their 28 match. Still to this day when HHH hit the tombstone on taker I thought the streak was over. That selling from taker was A++


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> About to watch the main event of WM 17. :mark: still love the My Way video package.


Not as good as WM X-7 but still damn good.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I actually liked 27 more than their 28 match. Still to this day when HHH hit the tombstone on taker I thought the streak was over. That selling from taker was A++


Yep, that is the only thing I remember from that match, the Triple H tombstone. Don't know about the actual selling of the tombstone, since he kicked out :lol But it was a cool moment.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching this: :lol






Best Angle/Cena match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ No Mercy 2003


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Taker/Punk, I could not only just see it easily passing the HHH matches, but a possible chance it could be Taker's best Mania match period behind the HBK matches... though at the very least I'm expecting it to be a **** match right behind Taker's ****1/4 matches at Mania (vs. Edge and vs. Orton). I can't see it topping the HBK matches though or hitting *****, but it'll be an amazing match I'm sure.

On Taker/Cena, that match has so much potential based on Taker/Cena already having three **** matches (four if you count the NWO 07 tag)... and that was back before both men really hit their stride in the ring and Cena was still a mid-carder. Couple that with just how big the match itself would be and the unpredictability with Cena having arguably the best chance to end the streak since Orton, it could very well be a ***** match if done right, and the greatest match of Cena's career.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> On Taker/Punk, I could not only just see it easily passing the HHH matches, but a possible chance it could be Taker's best Mania match period behind the HBK matches... though at the very least I'm expecting it to be a **** match right behind Taker's ****1/4 matches at Mania (vs. Edge and vs. Orton).




Idk if it'll top edge/taker, but I can see punk/taker being better than Orton/taker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Idk if it'll top edge/taker, but I can see punk/taker being better than Orton/taker.


I have both Taker/Edge and Taker/Orton pretty close to each other at ****1/4 (with the Edge match slightly higher), so I'm expecting it'll either pass both of them or pass neither of them.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> I have both Taker/Edge and Taker/Orton pretty close to each other at ****1/4 (with the Edge match slightly higher), so I'm expecting it'll either pass both of them or pass neither of them.




I have edge/taker at ****1/2. Orton/taker ****. What made edge/taker real special to me was all the counters edge had in that match, I've never seen more counters against the undertaker in my life.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Edge/Taker is excellent. Loved the way the ending was handled.

Still haven't watched Orton/Taker from 21 though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Think I might throw in WM 24 after Raw tonight. Dying to watch Edge/Taker again after the discussion in here and it just owns as a whole.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Edge/Taker was my ultimate dream match and it lived up to it for me. I gave it ****1/2 and loved it. Their HIAC match also got ****1/2 from me. Between them and HBK/Jericho 2008 was amazing.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Think I might throw in WM 24 after Raw tonight. Dying to watch Edge/Taker again after the discussion in here and it just owns as a whole.




DO IT. I threw in WM 24 last thursday. Loved this mania. MITB, Orton/cena/HHH, HBK/flair, and edge/taker were all fantastic.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> DO IT. I threw in WM 24 last thursday. Loved this mania. MITB, Orton/cena/HHH, HBK/flair, and edge/taker were all fantastic.


Finlay/JBL is really solid too, imo. (Y)

If only something actually happened during Batista/Umaga.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Rawk said:


> On Taker/Punk, I could not only just see it easily passing the HHH matches, but a possible chance it could be Taker's best Mania match period behind the HBK matches... though at the very least I'm expecting it to be a **** match right behind Taker's ****1/4 matches at Mania (vs. Edge and vs. Orton). I can't see it topping the HBK matches though or hitting *****, but it'll be an amazing match I'm sure.
> 
> On Taker/Cena, that match has so much potential based on Taker/Cena already having three **** matches (four if you count the NWO 07 tag)... and that was back before both men really hit their stride in the ring and Cena was still a mid-carder. Couple that with just how big the match itself would be and the unpredictability with Cena having arguably the best chance to end the streak since Orton, it could very well be a ***** match if done right, and the greatest match of Cena's career.


The Rawk is 100% correct yet again. Sums it up nicely.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

I'm surprised to see Taker/Orton rated so highly by y'all. I haven't seen that match in years now, but now I'm inspired to go back and watch it again. Definitely agree with Taker/Edge at ****1/2, great great match.

What's everyone's rating of Taker/HHH from Wrestlemania X-7? It's been a long time since I've seen that match as well.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

**** for Taker/HHH WM17. A good deal better than their WM27 encounter, but just under their WM28 one for me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingDio said:


> What's everyone's rating of Taker/HHH from Wrestlemania X-7? It's been a long time since I've seen that match as well.


Great match. I'd probably have it a **** too. I might sneak an extra 1/4 in there if I'm feeling generous.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

yeah i'd go for ****** on HH/Taker WM 17, great brawl. reff spot is a bit overdone but needed to be considering where they went in the match :lol

*****1/4* for Taker/Orton


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

I really dislike the Taker/HHH Mania 17 match. I didn't care for the fighting in the crowd or the end with the chokeslams and what not from like 2 stories or whatever. Granted I haven't seen it in a while but this is a match I do not think very much of. And I'm sure I'm in the minority.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Wrestlemania 2000

The Rock/Triple H/Mick Foley/Big Show - ***1/2

This had good parts and bad parts. Show dominating at the start was fun. The battle between HHH, Rock and Foley was well worked (except for the table botch). But the battle between Rock and HHH went on 10 minutes too long at the end I thought. The swerve at the end could of been much better, but felt flat because it was so overbooked before that. This was a great match though, its just frustrating because it could of been much better.

Hardcore Battle Royal - **3/4

This was one of the funnest matches I have ever seen. If the last five minutes were as good as the first ten minutes this would of been rated a lot higher. I thought the last five minutes dragged a bit and was a bit boring compared to the awesome start. Still a very good match.

Edge & Christian/Hardy Boyz/Dudley Boyz Triangle Ladder Match - ****1/4

This match was as good and chaotic as you would expect, the spots were brutal and the match just helped in getting all three teams over. The Dudley Boyz should of won this match I thought, they gave an incredible performance throughout.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

... the fuck is this shit? Reveal #6.

*RIVALRIES*

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Mr McMahon
Dusty Rhodes vs. Ric Flair
Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
*MATCHES*


*“Winner Take All” Handicap Ladder Match*
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Mr. McMahon & Shane McMahon
_King of the Ring • June 27, 1999_

Shawn Michaels’ Tribute to The Undertaker
_SmackDown • March 27, 2009_

-------------------------------------

Obviously one of those is not a match. The other one was just released not too long ago on _The Ladder Match 2._ Great rivalries, shitty match(?) choices. Here's to hoping for good blu ray extras...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I agree on the rivalries themselves but the matches, meh.

Is there going to be a full documentary disc?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I agree on the rivalries themselves but the matches, meh.
> 
> Is there going to be a full documentary disc?


Yeah, first disc is the 25 rivalries doc and discs 2/3 will be for matches. Tomorrow's the last day for the reveals, then we'll know the full list.

Anyone wanna guess the last 4 rivalries? Bret/Austin HAS to be one and I think HBK/Jericho has a shot. Still thinking something involving WCW/NWO too, maybe Sting. HOLY FUCK I somehow forgot Eddie/Rey. That's gotta be a legit top 5.


----------



## Centor74 (Mar 12, 2013)

Hhh/taker at mania 17 is a **** and 1/4 here 

The extra /4 * is because i was so sure that hhh would get the win that i was pleasantly surprise....

Now that i think of it maybe i should take that quarter star out because as soon as i saw hhh mounted on the ring post i called that it would end right there with th last ride...

X7 is probably the last time i've truly enjoyed the wwe product without any real complaints....i miss those days


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection - Disc 1

**British Commonwealth Jr. Heavyweight Title - 2 out of 3 Falls
*Bret Hart (c) vs. Dynamite Kid - N/R (Joined in Progress)
_Stampede Wrestling December 1978_

Bret Hart vs. Buzz Sawyer - ** 1/2
_Georgia Championship Wrestling December 1979_

*North American Heavyweight Title
*Leo Burke (c) vs. Bret Hart - **
_Stampede Wrestling January 1983

_Bret Hart vs. Dynamite Kid - *** 1/4
_Capital Centre 9/14/1985_

*WWF Tag Team Championship
*The Hart Foundation (c) vs. The Islanders - *** 1/4
_Philly Spectrum 3/14/1987_

Bret Hart vs. Andre The Giant - * 3/4
_Milan, Italy 4/10/1989

_Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect - *** 3/4
_Maple Leaf Gardens 4/23/1989_


- So the way this dvd is setup is that Bret gives his thoughts on his opponent before the match you're watching and gives you a little backstory at the time of his career. Really enjoyed those little tidbits. The match with Dynamite (who he speaks VERY highly of) is joined in progress at the start of the 2nd fall, which is 17 minutes into the match. What you see is about 14 minutes, but it's really enjoyable stuff. Dynamite was on point even at a young age and it's tough to tell you're actually watching Bret Hart since he's so scrawny and not wearing pink. 

- Bret vs. Buzz Sawyer is a good little technical match. Solid chain wrestling & one of the few times you'll ever see BRET HART get outwrestled. Buzz is a guy I know absolutely nothing about but someone who I wouldn't mind seeing more of after watching this. Bret vs. Leo Burke is joined in progress as well but you get to see enough of it to grasp the concept. Fun match for the dusty finish.

- So here we have Bret vs. Dynamite Kid, 7 years later. Wow, talk about two guys who look COMPLETELY different this time around. Amazing difference in size. Really good match here. Great example of how something so simple as hair pulling can be the story of an entire match and get a huge reaction from the crowd. Dynamite drops some brutal looking knee drops as well. Great stuff all around but we almost missed the finish due to showing a replay.

- For those unaware, The Islanders are the duo of Haku & The Tonga Kid. Instantly became surreal hearing the letters WWF, I actually had to rewind it. A really fun match here with some shenanigans from Danny Davis. Hot crowd.

- Oh my, the video quality for the Andre match is pretty rough. Feels like I'm watching a 240p video on youtube, then a few minutes in it vastly improves. Commentary is in Italian too. The match itself obviously isn't a classic but it's a cool inclusion because of the sheer fact that it's Bret vs. Andre. 

- The Mr. Perfect match is fantastic. Just a really well structured contest with great selling & performances from both guys. Bret noted it was only their 2nd match ever together, yet they wrestled like they had been for years. The first of many gems to come. (Y)​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Such a ballin' DVD. I swear to god we have almost the exact same ratings so far, should have the second disc finished tomorrow, Bret fucking rules and I can't wait to see.... Well, EVERYTHING .

Definitely better than 4/10.

:HHH2

EDIT : We're definitely getting Austin-Bret from Survivor Series 1996 on this set. I'm willing to bet 6 billion dollars. GOD I HOPE we get the 6/23/05 match between Eddie and Rey... One can dream.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> - Oh my, the video quality for the Andre match is pretty rough. Feels like I'm watching a 240p video on youtube,


You are. WWE didn't even have the match in their library so they ripped it from youtube to put on the DVD. I'm dead serious.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I still can't get into Punk/Taker. Didn't really care for how they went with the direction of the feud with the whole Paul Bearer thing last night. It's pathetic that's the only way they can heat on Punk. And I don't think it's going to be as good of a match as people are thinking it will be. It will likely be decent, maybe MOTN, but to make the claim of MOTY for it? It won't be MOTY. I read someone say the match would be at least as good as Orton's and Edge's matches with Taker at WrestleMania, if not better. How can you make that prediction? Both Orton and Edge had more chemistry than Undertaker then Punk, and Undertaker is much older now than when he was wrestling Orton and Edge so I can't see him performing as good as those matches. Plus Orton and Edge were more credible to the streak than Punk at the time, with Orton being the Legend Killer at the time and Edge who was also undefeated at Mania prior to challenging Undertaker at WrestleMania. Punk doesn't have anything. If Punk was still Champion they could of done a title vs Streak thing and at least they would of had something, but now WWE has ruined Punk's credibility over the last few months with repeated losses to The Rock, and a loss to Kane last night. So it's hard to buy him as a threat to The Streak. When you combine that with the fact he doesn't have the size/look to be a threat either, it doesn't help. I'm a Punk fan, he's one of my favorites in the company, but I just can't get into this match yet. Maybe over the next few weeks I can get more into it, but as of right now, I can't.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> You are. WWE didn't even have the match in their library so they ripped it from youtube to put on the DVD. I'm dead serious.


:lol That's crazy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what should i watch, a 1998 raw or a wcw 2000 ppv?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk/Taker match marking is a runaway train tbh. MOTN. MOTY. It will be the best match to ever happen in the history of wrestling and the world ever, ever, ever if some peeps are to be believed. Personally, I'm still finding it difficult to give a shit. It's the same for all 3 of the big matches. They get momentum and then nobody fucking shows up. My expectations heading into Mania regarding MOTN are non-existent. I don't really have any so for me, MOTN is up for grabs for anybody. So many people bigging up the streak match as MOTY based on literally nothing are setting themselves up for massive disappointment though imo. Trips/Brock is obviously getting a stip but it could go either way depending on the quality. Rock/Cena is probably the sleeper match at this rate because for the most part, nobody is expecting anything great from them. I reckon they'll surprise us. Ryback/Henry could be fun. The Shield match is probably the thing I'm looking forward to the most. Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns, Show, Seamus, Orton. I think it's going to own and I see no reason why it shouldn't. The storyline is also far and away above everything else we're getting on TV every week. Great stuff. If anything, based on what we've seen so far, this match should be the predicted MOTN.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Punk is heading in a good direction apart from the fact Punk's a loser right now who kayfabe looks like no threat to the streak. I still think they're going to produce MOTN and a MOTYC due to what I've seen they can do plus what Taker (and Punk even) bring to the big stage of Mania. I could see The Shield match potentially being MOTN.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Punk/Taker match marking is a runaway train tbh. MOTN. MOTY. It will be the best match to ever happen in the history of wrestling and the world ever, ever, ever if some peeps are to be believed.


Who would ever spout off such claims :side:

TBH, that's been the case for many of Taker's matches in the last several years. The Deadman has delivered the fucking goods six years in a row and it would be a shame if THAT streak were broken this year. Like I said a couple days ago, if Taker/Punk reaches Taker vs. Orton/Batista/Edge level it will be a *great* match imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> You are. WWE didn't even have the match in their library so they ripped it from youtube to put on the DVD. I'm dead serious.


That is exactly right, a member on another site tracked down the video from two seperate traders in the world , alot of effort too of course, put it on YT, the WWE just nicked it and stuck it on the DVD :no:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I wish ABA Taker would come back and bury Punk on the mic. That would finally show those Punk marks how a mic is truly spouse to be handled.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ fpalm. Why would you want that? The purpose of promos isn't to intentionally bury people. You should want Taker on the mic to help sell the match instead of making Punk look like an even bigger joke than he already does. 



The Rawk said:


> *Taker/Punk is heading in a good direction apart from the fact Punk's a loser right now who kayfabe looks like no threat to the streak.* I still think they're going to produce MOTN and a MOTYC due to what I've seen they can do plus what Taker (and Punk even) bring to the big stage of Mania. I could see The Shield match potentially being MOTN.


Oxymoron is oxymoron.



Clique said:


> Who would ever spout off such claims :side:
> 
> TBH, that's been the case for many of Taker's matches in the last several years. The Deadman has delivered the fucking goods six years in a row and it would be a shame if THAT streak were broken this year. Like I said a couple days ago, if Taker/Punk reaches Taker vs. Orton/Batista/Edge level it will be a *great* match imo.


I think it will be a good to great match. I just don't get where all this BESTEST MATCH EVARZ MOTN MOTY GOAT MATCH OF ALL TIME DURR is coming from since there's literally nothing to base such a claim on, for me any ways. It is what it is. Maybe the destination will end up being something to see. I'm just finding it really difficult to give a crap about the journey.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Speaking of Taker's last six Mania matches:

Batista WM 23 - **** 1/2
Edge WM 24 - **** 1/2
Michaels WM 25 - *****
Michaels WM 26 - *****
HHH WM 27 - **** 1/4
HHH WM 28 - **** 1/2


And just to throw it out there since I mentioned it - 

Orton WM 21 - **** 1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

vs. Orton - ****1/4
vs. Henry - **********
vs. Batista - ****1/2
vs. Edge - ***1/2
vs. HBK I - *****
vs. HBK II - ****3/4
vs. HHH II - ****1/2
vs. HHH III - *****

MR WRASSLEMANIA BIG MEAN MARK


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

DAT Taker/Edge rating


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Never really liked that match too much. I fell asleep when watching it live. Second half is good stuff. First half is boring as hell though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

vs. Batista - ****1/2
vs. Edge - ****1/2
vs. HBK I - *****
vs. HBK II - ****3/4
vs. HHH II - ****1/2
vs. HHH III - *****

The HIAC at SS, now that is where its fucking at.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Debating whether or not to watch some AITCH BEE KAY WRASSLE MANIA matches or Ted atm. Haven't seen Ted before. Haven't watched any wrestling apart from Raw in a while either though. What to do with my day off?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Why do people WANT Taker as ABA now?

It's 2013 not 2003.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@Starbuck

Just thought, I'd throw my comments out there cause this match is looking duller and duller by the second. It's clear McMahon dosen't know how to book someone as a threat to the streak, I even believe this match won't get over 12 minutes at WM29. It all feels very lackluster.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Agreed that the match is lacklustre but breaking kayfabe or getting Taker to go back to ABA isn't going to change that. In fact, breaking kayfabe with Taker is probably the worst thing you could ever do to him and I'd personally truly HATE to see that happen. They do know how to book people as threats to the streak. They just don't know how to do it in 4 weeks with a guy who just lost 3 of the biggest matches of his career in a row. 

I can sort of get it. The Deadman gimmick is restrictive in how far you can take it. At the same time though, it's probably the best gimmick ever. I don't want him to switch back. It was a nice change but Undertaker is the Undertaker. He's not like everybody else.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Cause everything in the past is better according to wrestling fans.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Too Cool & Cactus Jack dancing > Brodus Clay and Tensai dancing though. DAT ATTITUDE ERA.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

vs. Orton - ****
vs. Henry - **1/2 (The suicide dive and the tombstone made this match decent)
vs. Batista - ****1/2
vs. Edge - ****1/4
vs. HBK I - ****3/4
vs. HBK II - *****
vs. HHH II - *****
vs. HHH III - ****3/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

don't be hatin' on funkin' dunkin donuts


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

vs. Orton - ****1/4
vs. Henry - **3/4
vs. Batista - ****1/2
vs. Edge - ****1/2
vs. HBK I - *****
vs. HBK II - ****3/4
vs. HHH II - ****1/2
vs. HHH III - ****3/4

Taker/Punk have good chemistry,they showed it in the past but they didn't have the time.give these two 20 to 25 minute and you will see a great match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

BANKSY said:


> Cause everything in the past is better according to wrestling fans.


No need to be smart ass. Taker really is getting stale as hell, Hopefully he performs a promo (next week) that actually helps sell the match and makes it look like a big deal for WM.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Oxymoron .


What I'm saying is despite Punk looking like a non-threat to Taker, the feud itself has taken an interesting turn with Punk stealing the urn and not to mention Punk's promo being good at the start of the show for what it was.

Taker at Mania:

WM21- ****1/4
WM23- ****1/2
WM24- ****1/4
WM25- *****
WM26- ****3/4
WM28- ****

That list of matches is why people believe Taker/Punk will be MOTY and have high hopes. Taker at Mania+Punk at his best is a recipe for success.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So, what does everyone want and expect the stip will be on HHH/Brock?

WANT - Cage match, street fight or last man standing
EXPECT - _maybe_ a street fight, or the stip will probably be 'have HHH's career on the line or something like that


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd wager money for Lesnar/HHH on:
1) Street fight
2) HHH loss, Heyman is new COO/Owner of WWE.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Rawk said:


> What I'm saying is despite Punk looking like a non-threat to Taker, the feud itself has taken an interesting turn with Punk stealing the urn and not to mention Punk's promo being good at the start of the show for what it was.
> 
> Taker at Mania:
> 
> ...


You forgot WM27, That's an easy ****


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> So, what does everyone want and expect the stip will be on HHH/Brock?
> 
> WANT - Cage match, street fight or last man standing
> EXPECT - _maybe_ a street fight, or the stip will probably be 'have HHH's career on the line or something like that


Well, Heyman distinctly said 'stipulations'. As in plural. So I think it'll be a LMS/Street fight, and HHH will put his career on the line. I doubt we'll see a cage or HIAC match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> You forgot WM27, That's an easy ****


Nah, have that at ***1/2... nowhere near the other Taker matches at Mania I mentioned.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Well, Heyman distinctly said 'stipulations'. As in plural. So I think it'll be a LMS/Street fight, and HHH will put his career on the line. I doubt we'll see a cage or HIAC match.


Good point  Probably will be a street fight/last man standing combined with HHH's career on the line/or something to do with Heyman.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Punk/Taker match marking is a runaway train tbh. MOTN. MOTY. It will be the best match to ever happen in the history of wrestling and the world ever, ever, ever if some peeps are to be believed. Personally, I'm still finding it difficult to give a shit. It's the same for all 3 of the big matches. They get momentum and then nobody fucking shows up. My expectations heading into Mania regarding MOTN are non-existent. I don't really have any so for me, MOTN is up for grabs for anybody. So many people bigging up the streak match as MOTY based on literally nothing are setting themselves up for massive disappointment though imo. Trips/Brock is obviously getting a stip but it could go either way depending on the quality. Rock/Cena is probably the sleeper match at this rate because for the most part, nobody is expecting anything great from them. I reckon they'll surprise us. Ryback/Henry could be fun. The *Shield match is probably the thing I'm looking forward to the most.* Ambrose, Rollins, Reigns, Show, Seamus, Orton. I think it's going to own and I see no reason why it shouldn't. The storyline is also far and away above everything else we're getting on TV every week. Great stuff. If anything, based on what we've seen so far, this match should be the predicted MOTN.


I'd probably say the same. All The Shield's matches so far have been great, looking forward to what they can do on the grandest stage of them all. 

Rock/Cena I don't care about.

Brock/HHH will get my interest if they put a decent stipulation to the match, I'm thinking something like a no DQ or Last Man Standing.

Punk/Taker already talked about. I'm hoping in the next few weeks leading into WrestleMania they can get me interested in their feud because right now I'm finding it hard to care.

Swagger/Del Rio I only care about if Ziggler cashes in afterwards and becomes World Champion, could very well happen. Swagger has no chance of winning.

And yeah, Ryback vs Henry could be fun.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

As much as i don't care about the feud, i still think Trips/Lesnar will be stellar, no matter the stip.

Rock/Cena hopefully will be shorter and more of a brawl compared to last year, if it is short and quick then it could be a lot of fun.

Taker/Punk will be good, i hope. I know both are amazing workers but Taker's had 1 match since Wrestlemania and that was at a house show. Hopefully Punk will look strong during and after the match and get placed back into the title picture.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> As much as i don't care about the feud, i still think Trips/Lesnar will be stellar, no matter the stip.
> 
> Rock/Cena hopefully will be shorter and more of a brawl compared to last year, if it is short and quick then it could be a lot of fun.
> 
> Taker/Punk will be good, i hope. I know both are amazing workers but Taker's had 1 match since Wrestlemania and that was at a house show. Hopefully *Punk will look strong during and after the match and get placed back into the title picture.*


I'd actually rather Punk stay away from the title picture for a few months, since he's been around the belt for a year and a half almost. I'd like to see a feud with Sheamus perhaps, and maybe another with Daniel Bryan. Obviously this depends on what they're doing, but those could be stellar feuds, and Punk could then come back into the title picture after about 4 months away.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I dunno, i really think Cena/Punk need to finish their program soon after Mania. We've been waiting since HIAC.

Feud with Sheamus would be good but i have a feeling that he'll be in a program with Orton for a while. Sadly Bryan is just going to wasted.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I hope we see at least 2 Punk/Cena matches on PPV this year. At Summerslam and HiaC maybe?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'd take a Cena/Punk main event, every PPV. Guaranteed ****+ matches.

I can dream


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My interest for WM29 is still higher than weeks ago just because I'm excited for ROCK/Cena (they no showed this week but I missed the whole thing so I don't really count the days like others) and Orton/Sheamus/Show vs Shield plus HHH/Lesnar should be a good match. Don't give two fucks about anything else but these three are enough to have me excited going into the show. Specially because of the hope of Cena and/or Orton turning heel.



Yeah1993 said:


> You are. WWE didn't even have the match in their library so they ripped it from youtube to put on the DVD. I'm dead serious.


And they've been thinking about erasing all the non-WWEFANNATION uploads from youtube? Maybe now they'll rethink that and let fans enjoy wrestling without their bullshit edits and rewritten history.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Srdjan99 said:


> I hope we see at least 2 Punk/Cena matches on PPV this year. At Summerslam and HiaC maybe?


I've been saying it ever since the June PPV location was announced for Chicago - Cena vs. Punk at WWE Payback.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Clique said:


> I've been saying it ever since the June PPV location was announced for Chicago - Cena vs. Punk at WWE Payback.


I'd happily watch Cena vs Punk in Chicago again.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

If they really wanna do punk/lesnar it needs to be in Chicago. Punk being the face would need his hometown cheap pop. Because if punk lesnar was anywhere else the crowd will be split.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Someone please give us a 30+ minute match between Danielson and DOLPH.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Someone please give us a 30+ minute match between Danielson and DOLPH.


:mark:

Perhaps Ziggler cashes in, wins the title and starts a feud over it with DB after 'Mania? Del Rio would probably get his 'rematch clause' though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really don't care what the circumstances are. WHC match would be ideal, but I'd like to see a meaningful match (preferably without interference) between these two.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Agreed. The brief match they had last night had glimpses of great, but the lack of time definitely limited them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh. Fuck Del Rio, he sucks the life out of everything he's in IMO.

Fuck Retardo too .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Ugh. Fuck Del Rio, he sucks the life out of everything he's in IMO.
> 
> Fuck Retardo too .


Yep. Their 'mocking' of Swagger and Coulter last night was cringe-worthy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I get it. He's MEXICAN.

If AlBOREto walks out of Wrestlemania as Champion it's going to make me rage almost as much as if The Roid pins Cena knowing that we're getting Roid-Cena III as well as The Roid with the WWE Championship for another three weeks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alberto better walk out of Mania as champion. They should depush Swagger's boring ass to midcard at best status permanently after WM. As for Ziggler cashing in... it's inevitable, so whatever.

Sucks that Bryan is being jobbed out so much, though. Even the biggest jobber that's not a full-time jobber in Ziggler beat him.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I can't wait for Del Rios reign to be over. Fucking guy STILL isn't over as a babyface


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ziggler or Bryan aren't jobbers ; they're just stuck in WWE purgatory where one week they're winning and the next week they lose, so everbody's even and nobody can get over while the WWE seems to give a consistent storyline to the same 4-5 full times. There's no hierarchy when it comes to company structure anymore, it's all "entertainment" and it doesn't matter who wins or who loses to them when in reality it means everything.

Say what you want about Ziggler, but I'm willing to bet he'll get a championship reign for a reason other than the fact that he's MEXICAN.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I think something is wrong with me, but I like Del Rio as a face and i dig his character. His reign was quite good, with decent promos and some excellent matches against Big Show


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The matches with Big Show are just like 99 percent of his other matches ; not BAD, but an uninspired bunch of nonsense that nobody ever needs to see twice. 

Al-BORE-to DULL-Rio needs to fuck off. One of the most undeserving hacks to win world titles I've ever fucking seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Del Rio Vs Swagger WHC match reminds me of Edge/Del Rio from WM 27. Neither guy should be champ and it's gonna suck regardless of who leaves with the title. Shame neither of them are going to retire afterwards :side:.


----------



## Shazayum (Jan 4, 2010)

Watching Undertaker/Edge. Man the commentary for this match sucks.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

There's no reason at all ziggler shouldn't leave mania with the belt.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm still wondering who Ziggler will be booked with for 'Mania. I was thinking Jericho but it looks like he might have something going on with Barrett.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The matches with Big Show are just like 99 percent of his other matches ; not BAD, but an uninspired bunch of nonsense that nobody ever needs to see twice.
> 
> Al-BORE-to DULL-Rio needs to fuck off. One of the most undeserving hacks to win world titles I've ever fucking seen.




Agreed, too bad Vince has a raging boner for the guy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My WM 2 review was posted on my blog earlier . THE worst WM of all time? I'm 17 in and so far it is lol.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'm still wondering who Ziggler will be booked with for 'Mania. I was thinking Jericho but it looks like he might have something going on with Barrett.




I don't even know if he'll have a match on the card which would be awful. But how bout ziggler cash in before mania??? I see it more likely because Vince has lost interest in Del Rio/swagger and ziggler gets on the card. Ziggler not being on the card must mean they've really lost faith in him.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I don't even know if he'll have a match on the card which would be awful. But how bout ziggler cash in before mania??? I see it more likely because Vince has lost interest in Del Rio/swagger and ziggler gets on the card. Ziggler not being on the card must mean they've really lost faith in him.


Well if Ziggler's not on the card, a cash in is surely all but guaranteed. I doubt he'll cash in before, because they seem invested in drawing out this Swagger/Del Rio 'racism' storyline.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Say what you want about Ziggler, but I'm willing to bet he'll get a championship reign for a reason other than the fact that he's MEXICAN.


At least he's more entertaining even if kinda bland. But Ziggler is the blandest wrestler I've ever seen who has been promoted on the borders of main event level. I don't really understand why smarks have a hard-on for him. He can make moves look good by overbumping but other than that... YAWN.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I guess Ziggler/Langston vs. Kane/Bryan, at this point. Neither have a program and Jericho seems to be involved in Miz and Barrett, which is fucking random, but whatever.

Regardless, I still think Ziggler cashes in at WM.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ziggler will be on the card. Most people who aren't lower-tier jobbers and appear on TV weekly can find their way onto a Mania card. As of now, there are only 4 guaranteed matches:

Rock/Cena
Taker/Punk
HHH/Lesnar
Del Rio/Swagger

Shield vs Show/Orton/Sheamus is all but locked.

That's 5 matches for a 4-hour show. Typically, Mania runs 8-10 matches deep if I'm not mistaken.

That leaves room for 3-5 matches. 1 likely to be a divas match. Then you have Team Hell No involved in some way - maybe a triple threat with Rhodes Scholars and New Age Outlaws (unless Outlaws were only there to get owned by BROCK). If Ziggler isn't officially on the card, that means he's cashing in.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Don't care about ADR, Swagger, the build, the match or the end results, and that includes Ziggler cashing in.
My interest in Ziggler has gone down dramatically since early last year, so those 3 making up the main event scene of SD insures that i'll continue to not watch SD.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Cal*........I'm sorry but you think Sammartino-Beefcake is a great match, therefore I can't possibly support your blog....

Next thing you're going to tell me that Kurt Angle SUCKS or something :kurt.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Am I the only one disappointed in the shield match for mania? It's such a downgrade when they put big show with sheamus/Orton. To me a win really doesn't do much for the shield. My only hope in this match is if Orton finally turns heel.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Quick question, what was the best year for RAW from 97-2000? I'm doing an experiment


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena's going to be the one who takes out The Shield.

Wrestlemania II is a truly terrible, terrible show but I don't see a big step down from the first Mania to be fair. I liked the Funk's tag alot more than I liked anything on the first Mania, but Cal insists that Brutus fucking Beefcake had the GOAT Mania match pre-Wrestlemania III just because he's a blind mark for whatever BRUTI does .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MoveMent said:


> Quick question, what was the best year for RAW from 97-2000? I'm doing an experiment


2000 followed by 97 followed by smashing your head into a wall followed by 98 followed by stabbing your eyes followed by death followed by 99.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Am I the only one disappointed in the shield match for mania? It's such a downgrade when they put big show with sheamus/Orton. To me a win really doesn't do much for the shield. My only hope in this match is if Orton finally turns heel.


Their match with Ryback/Cena/Sheamus shoudn't have happened as now they cant possibly top it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Neither, I'd go with 93 because it had a MEGA MANIACS appearance ft. Brutus Beefcake.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> 2000 followed by 97 followed by smashing your head into a wall followed by 98 followed by stabbing your eyes followed by death followed by 99.


:lmao

Reason why I asked was because most of the stuff I remember off hand of the late 90's is segments and not matches. I remember not hearing good things about 1998 match quality.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WE NEED MORE TRANNYS IN WRESTLING :russo


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've been thinking about putting my 2006-2007 up until June journey on hold just so I can watch 1999, should I go for it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Do it. You'll come back appreciating the talents of our lord and savior Phillip Brooks, thanking him for everything he has done and wrestling and praying to him that wrestling never has to go though another period like that again.

unk2


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I've been thinking about putting my 2006-2007 up until June journey on hold just so I can watch 1999, should I go for it?


2006 was pretty bad outside of the summer madness of ECW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD 2006 was tremendous.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SD 06 in summer has been boring in June. With Benoit, Angle and Orton all gone, I just can't bring myself to care about King BOOKAH or seeing Rey Mysterio job continuously. Can't wait for when Benoit returns so I can enjoy greatness on its last legs.



KingOfKings said:


> Do it. You'll come back appreciating the talents of our lord and savior Phillip Brooks, thanking him for everything he has done and wrestling and praying to him that wrestling never has to go though another period like that again.
> 
> unk2


He's nothing more than a reject in ECW during that time, so no, he's the last thing that matters in the remainder of my journey. I'll go back and finish 97-02 then return to finish off the rest of 07 and continue up until late 2010. No Punk as a long-term main eventer during any of it, so I'll enjoy it. 

I will, on the other hand, get A LOT of Randy Orton in the main event and that's just :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Watched some WWF '98 ppvs and yeah, character heavy but lacking in quality wrestling. 
Survivor Series '98 is awful, so im happy they're offering it on "WWE on Demand" .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Smackdown 2006 and ECW 2006 are both fucking AWESOME IMO. Raw was horrendous, that version of DX had jokes that compare to THE ROID'S material nowadays.

Dungeon Collection <3 BRET.

Orton in the main event ? That seems like such a long time ago.....

unk2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hercules looks like a jacked up Eugene, fucking hell Cal so true, never really realised :lol


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

2006 was a great year. Don't get the hate for it. Then again I don't look at things just from a DAT WORKRATE perspective, but overall entertainment value. And 2006 was a very enjoyable year for me. Edge/Cena feud, DX reunion and feud with The McMahon's, RVD's Push, ECW, guys like MVP debuting at the end of the year. Bad points were Rey Mysterio's World Title reign.

Edit: King Booker was bad as well, thanks for reminding me Choke2Death lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This Bret-Perfect match is definitely better than 4/10 .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What would the second half of 2006 looked like had RVD not been busted for possession? :hmm:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What would the second half of 2006 looked like had RVD not been busted for possession? :hmm:


ECW would have likely been shit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Orton in the main event ? That seems like such a long time ago.....
> 
> unk2


You're right, a time when real talent was pushed and not skinny fat asses who look like homeless junkies. :no:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What would the second half of 2006 looked like had RVD not been busted for possession? :hmm:


I think RVD would of got a decent-length ECW Title reign if he didn't fuck up, he was never going to hold the WWE Title long though with the Edge/Cena feud and how big Cena's rise was at the time. RVD's fuck up lead to Big Show being ECW Champion, and to be fair, Big Show's ECW reign was probably his best title reign. He was enjoyable then as the unstoppable monster. Loved his extreme rules match with Ric Flair on a ECW episode.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Smackdown 2006 was trash to me soley because of the Eddie influenced story lines. MVP and Kennedy's eventual debuts were nice though.

King Booker was bad but hilarious at the same time. He gets a pass.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Great matches on a weekly basis is the reason I adore SD so much. Storylines were usually pretty dull though. Though I didn't enjoy many of the storylines in 06.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Big Z said:


> My WM 2 review was posted on my blog earlier . THE worst WM of all time? I'm 17 in and so far it is lol.


*You have a blog? *


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*2006*
Stopped watching SD after Rey's win against JBL, slowly started watching again later in the year mostly cause of Lashley.
Didn't enjoy anything on RAW and watched more out of routine. Stopped liking DX after 2 weeks but excited about their feud with Rated RKO.
While i did miss a few of the early episodes i thought ECW was awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love how they tried to shove down our throats that Orton-Cena was this rivalry that defined a generation until Punk came along and gave Cena the rivalry that will actually define this Era. 

What the hell is the feud that defines every generation anyways ?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

You can't tell me you didn't laugh at that at the time. DX in 2006 were hilarious. The initial feud between HBK and the McMahons was good, and then the DX revival with Triple H becoming a face for the first time in years was really refreshing, and their comedy antics and natural chemistry together was gold. The feud went downhill when it became DX feuding with The Spirit Squad, but I always liked the DX/McMahon stuff.

Edit: Rated RKO another good thing about 2006, the last good thing Orton did.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

2006 storylines were fucking awful. 

Dx vs spirt squad?
McMahon vs god? Fpalm. 


Only good thing about 06 was cena/edge fued.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On the go-home show for Vengeance now and Orton just squashed Snitsky. Wow, he's OVER with the fans. Front row featured a bunch of RKO t-shirts, signs and some guy was in the most robotic way possible doing the Orton pose after he won. Found that pretty hilarious. :lol

And haters say Orton was not over until he punted HBK. fpalm

In the same show, there were a couple of penis jokes in the opening segment with McMahon backstage and I admit a couple of them made me laugh. Cena makes Mahoney submit and DX shower Spirit Squad in green paint.



Big Z said:


> Great matches on a weekly basis is the reason I adore SD so much. Storylines were usually pretty dull though. Though I didn't enjoy many of the storylines in 06.


The match quality is not even that great if you ask me. It was good up until May but in June, the shows have been pretty dull other than Angle's farewell match with Rey being good. But then again, I just find it hard to enjoy a match if I don't care for either of the competitors.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Which still isn't nearly as good as the Cena/Punk feud .

Think about it though, Punk and Cena are complete and total opposites when it comes to their respective characters while putting them together on a PPV pretty much locks down a four star match, something that not many combos can go out there and do. 

Cena-Punk is *THE* Rivalry that I wanna see over and over again, regardless of who wins.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Seabs said:


> *You have a blog? *







To follow up on prior discussion, Smackdown '06 is probably its best year since its inception to me in terms of week to week wrestling. Adore it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2006 was the year the WWE finally debuted unk

= GREAT YEAR.

& 6 years later, the MAN.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seabs said:


> *You have a blog? *





WOOLCOCK said:


> To follow up on prior discussion, Smackdown '06 is probably its best year since its inception to me in terms of week to week wrestling. Adore it.


You are both MOTHERFUCKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS .

Finlay tearing it up on a weekly basis easily makes SD 06 the most awesome thing of all time .


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Smackdown 2003-2005 was the best to me.

(Eddie is my favorite wrestler so don't mind me)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It amazes me how over Punk actually did get despite lacking 99 percent of the "qualities" that Vince looks for in a main event performer. He's the anti-Cena and that's what makes their feud one of the greatest of all time. 

He's in that tier with guys like Randy Savage in terms of all time greatness coupled with popularity.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Team DX (HHH, Michales, Punk & Hardys) = Dream Team
I can say their teaming up was a top highlight of '06 for me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Finlay was great as the tough Irish bastard that loved to fight, they ruined him when they turned him face and became a comedy character with Hornswoggle.

Still remember his debut as if it was yesterday:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MoveMent said:


> Smackdown 2003-2005 was the best to me.
> 
> (Eddie is my favorite wrestler so don't mind me)


2004 was shit, the rest was great, though. Eddie could only do so much in 04 as they lost star power with Benoit's move to Raw and Lesnar splitting. The midcard was dull as fuck with hardly ever any good matches and the wrong people were feuding with the top names.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

shame surivor series 06 was AWFUL.

Legends/Spirit Squad- *
Benoit/Chavo- **
Team DX/Rated RKO: ** (DAT POP for Punk)
Kennedy/Taker- **1/2
Team Show/Team Cena- **1/2
Batista/Booker- 1/2*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

For those with Classics on Demand, Punk/Jericho from the 8/18/08 Raw in Chicago (AllState Arena) when Punk was the WHC. Haven't watched yet, but just a reminder. Looking forward to watching it later.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

And on a random topic change, was the Ziggler/Bryan match from last night's RAW good? Worth checking out? Because my dumbass didn't realize RAW started one hour earlier in the UK this week and I missed the first hour of the show.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

It's not that long, so if it's on YouTube or something it's worth checking out. Nothing special, but there was a good finishing stretch. On a PPV with more time it would have been great.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> *It's not that long*, so if it's on YouTube or something it's worth checking out. Nothing special, but there was a good finishing stretch. On a PPV with more time it would have been great.


Weird someone replied to me in the RAW discussion thread complaining that the match went on too long. 

I might check it out. I'm just glad that Ziggler got a win for once.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, that match was like 10 mins, but pretty good ones. I actually enjoyed the booking for last night, it felt different, in some minor ways, than usual for Raw - it seems like the firing of Eric Pankowski made a difference.

Looking forward to Barrett/Jericho/Miz @ WM. Should be pretty good.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Weird someone replied to me in the RAW discussion thread complaining that the match went on too long.
> 
> I might check it out. I'm just glad that Ziggler got a win for once.


Well, it had an ad break in between so if you count that obviously it's a lot longer. Ziggler needed that win, even though it was at the expense of Bryan.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> And on a random topic change, was the Ziggler/Bryan match from last night's RAW good? Worth checking out? Because my dumbass didn't realize RAW started one hour earlier in the UK this week and I missed the first hour of the show.


Ziggler lost some teeth, so of course it is.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have Bryan/Ziggler from last night at **1/2, enjoyable match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They work really well together. Super crisp in their counters/exchanges. And I noticed that DOLPH seemed to be missing teeth, but I didn't see any blood so I wasn't sure if that was just the way he was smiling. Is it true that teeth were lost?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> They work really well together. Super crisp in their counters/exchanges. And I noticed that DOLPH seemed to be missing teeth, but I didn't see any blood so I wasn't sure if that was just the way he was smiling. Is it true that teeth were lost?


I definetly saw something fly out of his mouth after a shot to the face by Bryan. Often it's just spit, but the consensus is that it was a tooth. So I'm not sure.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> They work really well together. Super crisp in their counters/exchanges. And I noticed that DOLPH seemed to be missing teeth, but I didn't see any blood so I wasn't sure if that was just the way he was smiling. Is it true that teeth were lost?


Yes, Bryan did a pretty mean European uppercut, Ziggler checked his mout a couple times. Then they shoved Ziggler up close, mouth open, upper teeth misissing. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I think I remember that now. Surprised Lawler didn't do his usual "I think I saw a tooth flying!" when it's really just spit. This time it would've been accurate.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I watched the Ziggler-Sheamus match from No Way Out 12 the other day and there's a part where the crowd is going crazy chanting "LET'S GO ZIGGLER" , so naturally what does Lawler say ?










Lawler is a swine that needs to go away from wrestling forever at this point .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have only just noticed the newest listing for the Rivalries DVD Set:



> RIVALRIES
> 
> Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Mr McMahon
> Dusty Rhodes vs. Ric Flair
> ...


Erm, so no Taker/HBK match then, not even the GZ one, or may it be announced later..


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ziggler lost some teeth. :shocked:

Bryan messing up his beautiful face. :side:



KingOfKings said:


> I watched the Ziggler-Sheamus match from No Way Out 12 the other day and there's a part where the crowd is going crazy chanting "LET'S GO ZIGGLER" , so naturally what does Lawler say ?
> 
> Lawler is a swine that needs to go away from wrestling forever at this point .


Ziggler was more over than Sheamus in that match. The crowd just love to cheer the underdog, and Ziggler plays a great underdog despite being a heel. Makes me think he would be great at is a face.

Lawler is a sad case today. It's funny when I go back and watch old matches when the commentary team was JR and Lawler, and when Lawler was a heel - and he was great. Genuinely entertaining and great chemistry with JR. My favorite commentary team of all time, but now Lawler's just awful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm glad Lawler said "Let's go Sheamus". Taking the piss out of the annoying smarks.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, WOOLCOCK and I have gone back and forth on numerous occassions highlighting Ziggler's potential as a babyface. He can keep the arrogant/show-off aspects, but play them more to the crowd to get them to rally behind him. He bumps like a madman, which will definitely help garner sympathy, and his flashy moveset is an easy transition to that of a babyface worker.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm glad Lawler said "Let's go Sheamus". Taking the piss out of the annoying smarks.




Yeah, because a live crowd is really gonna hear what Lawler says .....


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The crowd were firmly in his in corner in that match, can't of been all smarks Choke2death. And I don't care who it is, I hate when commentators do that, blatantly lying to the viewers. JBL actually acknowledges when the crowd chant things, whether positive or negative, and that's one of the many reasons why he's such a great commentator.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When the crowd chants are blatantly recognizable, there's no point in trying to pull the wool over our eyes. They just end up looking (even more) like fools.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

zep81 said:


> I have only just noticed the newest listing for the Rivalries DVD Set:
> 
> 
> 
> Erm, so no Taker/HBK match then, not even the GZ one, or may it be announced later..


Agree, but the HBK/Taker Ground Zero match is at least on the Best of IYH set coming out in April.

I was at No Way Out 2012. Loved the Ziggler/Sheamus match. Crowd was really into it. Good crowd that night. Not that that's a surprise in NY/NJ.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, Lawler said it as if the fans were actually chanting for Sheamus when they weren't at all, making Lawler sound like a complete fucking tool :lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Agree, but the HBK/Taker Ground Zero match is at least on the Best of IYH set coming out in April.


Yeah, but WWE and them DVD repeats :side:

Just surprised they included it as a rivalry......and then just included a promo.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, WOOLCOCK and I have gone back and forth on numerous occassions highlighting Ziggler's potential as a babyface. He can keep the arrogant/show-off aspects, but play them more to the crowd to get them to rally behind him. He bumps like a madman, which will definitely help garner sympathy, and his flashy moveset is an easy transition to that of a babyface worker.


They should definitely try Ziggler as a face at some point, just to see what he'll be like. Everyone curious considering he's never played one before. In interviews Ziggler said he always wants to play the heel, and I wonder if that's why he's not turned yet. With all the positive reactions he was getting in 2012, such as at No Way Out, MITB, Night of Champions, you would think WWE capitalize on that with a babyface turn instead of going with someone like The Miz who wasn't getting the amount of face reaction as Ziggler was getting. WWE have jobbed him out so badly right now that he barely gets any reaction anymore, just compare one of entrances now compared to one last year, it's sad. 

Also to add to your post, I think Ziggler could get over as a face nicely with the superkick finisher. A move he rarely pulls out now, but he would probably use it all the time if he was face because it's such a like-able move that the crowd can pop for.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll just be downloading the rivalries documentary. Match listing looks terrible overall. Think there was only one match I'd be remotely interested in owning on Bluray (Angle/Lesnar SS).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Who here watched the awesome Bryan/Regal Superstars match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Who here watched the awesome Bryan/Regal Superstars match?


Which one (I don't know how many they may or may not have had)? The one from England, where they play Regal's HE'S A MAN, JUST A MAAAAAN theme?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Wrestlemania 23
19:10 MITB - ***3/4
5:32 Great Khali vs Kane - 1/2*
9:20 MVP vs Chris Benoit - ***
15:47 Batista vs Undertaker - ***1/2
6:27 ECW Originals vs New Breed - *1/2
13:03 Umaga vs Lashley - **1/2
3:13 Ashley vs Melina - 1/4*
27:50 Shawn Michaels vs John Cena ****


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I wouldn't mind a Ziggler face turn, because in all honesty, the guy is ridiculously bland and boring, I generally don't see the appeal in him whatsoever. His control periods consist of a great deal of nothing with no standout/signature moves, no unique offense or anything remotely captivating. The fact that he damn near has to kill himself to garner attention, in my opinion, is enough to show how boring he really is. I really do want to like him seeing as it is obvious he's a huge fan and he's willing to do anything to improve as a talent and make the most out of what he's got, but I just can't get behind him, even if he was booked well, I just don't like or understand the appeal in his style as a heel. Plus is gimmick/character is so generic and so boring. You simply cannot say you steal the shows when you have only ever had one standout singles match, and that was with _arguably_ the greatest wrestler of this generation in Daniel Bryan (at Bragging Rights 2010).

I'd love for someone to explain what exactly is so great about him, other than his ridiculous and somewhat un-needed bumping?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor just spoke for me above. I don't see the appeal in Ziggler whatsoever. He just does a great job at bumping and nothing else that makes me care.



The Lady Killer said:


> When the crowd chants are blatantly recognizable, there's no point in trying to pull the wool over our eyes. They just end up looking (even more) like fools.


I personally find humor in that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

For those who find Ziggler bland/boring you should want Ziggler to turn face just to see if he can change your minds as a face. I've noticed some people who were criticizing Del Rio as a heel, are now on the bandwagon as face, and most others just think he's better off as a face (myself included). Del Rio's terribly stale heel character and predictable formulaic matches are more interesting now he's a fresh new character, and his matches are more interesting now that he's implemented more flashy moves into his arsenal such as hurricanrana's and diving moves as a face. I'm not a fan of Del Rio, still find him rather dull, but I give him props and say he's better as a face.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I personally find humor in that.


To me it's only humorous because they come off as fucking morons. Like, clearly that's not what the crowd is chanting.

edit I guarantee Ziggler would get over as a face. When they were booking him well last year, even as a heel, he was getting babyface reactions. He's a likeable character, and like I said before, his moveset is akin to that of a babyface, so the transition should be fairly straightforward. A few tweaks to his gimmick and he's there. The key is not to book him like a fucking roller coaster ride.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> For those who find Ziggler bland/boring you should want Ziggler to turn face just to see if he can change your minds as a face. I've noticed some people who were criticizing Del Rio as a heel, are now on the bandwagon as face, and most others just think he's better off as a face (myself included). Del Rio's terribly stale heel character and predictable formulaic matches are more interesting now he's a fresh new character, and his matches are more interesting now that he's implemented more flashy moves into his arsenal such as hurricanrana's and diving moves as a face. I'm not a fan of Del Rio, still find him rather dull, but I give him props and say he's better as a face.


Yep, like I said, I'm willing to give it a chance as long as he tones down the bumping a little bit because I personally find it slightly annoying and monotonous, but I seem to be in the minority with that.

Oh and for the record, I don't like Del Rio any more as a face than I did as a heel. He's had one memorable match as a heel and one as a face, so I don't care either way. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 18 time! Only got around to watching Rock Vs Austin tonight, was too knackered last night. Lets just say some people are going to be uhhh... shocked as to my thoughts and rating for it .

But that's in the past now, WM 18 = Icon Vs Icon - Flair Vs Undertaker :mark:.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Yep, like I said, I'm willing to give it a chance as long as he tones down the bumping a little bit because I personally find it slightly annoying and monotonous, but I seem to be in the minority with that.
> 
> Oh and for the record, I don't like Del Rio any more as a face than I did as a heel. He's had one memorable match as a heel and one as a face, so I don't care either way. :lmao


That's why I said ''most others''. The general consensus on this forum is Del Rio's better as a face, but not everyone thinks that obviously. I just highlighted Del Rio as an example of how people can totally changed their minds on a character, when you have some people going from hating him to jumping on the bandwagon. Del Rio's matches with The Big Show were getting good feedback on here, especially the one when he won the World Title on that Smackdown episode, when everyone was sick of his matches as a heel against the likes Sheamus and Orton, and I don't blame them because Del Rio's matches as a heel were terribly stale and predictable, with the same old tired formula of working on the arm all match, every match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Del Rio is the exact fucking same as a heel or face with me.

No matter what the guy does, he'll do it okay-average-well but It'll be dull and I won't give a single fuck in the progress no matter what he does at this point. I'm pretty sure if he was a garbage man or a janitor he'd do a decent job but it would be completely uninspired, it's like the guy's one true calling in life to be as boring as fucking possible :lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked Del Rio when he first turned face. But ever since the Swagger feud, I've been 100% indifferent to him and the World Title. It will take someone like Randy Orton or maybe Jericho for me to care about him again.

Also finished DLing the entire Best There Is DVD for Bret Hart. Gonna check out the matches since I need to become familiar with DA HITMAN.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Which one (I don't know how many they may or may not have had)? The one from England, where they play Regal's HE'S A MAN, JUST A MAAAAAN theme?


Yup, that one. Terrific match imo.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Honestly since Del Rio became champion i just don't care what is going on with the WHC,

At least Show was putting fucking great matches on with Sheamus, not even Del Rio could do that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rivalries:

Tazz vs. Sabu
Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA
Verne Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkle
Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero

Matches:

“I Quit” Steel Cage Match for the NWA United States Championship
Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum T.A.
Starrcade • November 28, 1985

Tazz vs. Sabu
ECW Barely Legal • April 13, 1997

----------------------

I Quit match has already been released. No idea about Tazz/Sabu, but it probably has, not that I'd give a shit about it anyway. Terrible set for matches.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Del Rio has been the most interesting face WHC since Christian for me


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Next, and i'm sure final, listing for the Rivalries DVD Set:



> *RIVALRIES*
> 
> Tazz vs. Sabu
> Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA
> ...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*William Regal vs JBL, Smackdown (4/28/06)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/JBL+vs+William+Regal/1#video=x3oetb

Bossy sub 10 minute encounter here. Its during a UK tour and JBL is gloriously smug in the pre match promo baiting the England crowd about their culture, the fact they bow to a woman and cutting the most beautifully obnoxious pro USA promo you could hope for on foreign soil. Regal's promo is short and sweet, he concedes JBL's point about Tony Blair is apt and that he is indeed a 'muppet' before cutting JBL's balls off with a stinging tirade about Americans and telling this 'sunshine' he's found himself an opponent tonight. Early shine period sees Regal brutalising JBL with forearms and knees whilst playing to the English crowd including a great moment when he takes JBL's cowboy hat, wears it and hits a Terry Funk esque left handed haymaker before punting the hat into the stands. JBL is a really fun guy to see take a beating you desperately think he deserves and Regal working on top can't fail. 

Transition sees JBL eventually land a big boot and Regal blades his ear like the consumate pro and certified psycho he is and we get some great earwork by JBL from here. I'm a well known avid fan of creative body part work (its common knowledge HHH's matches would be 75% more enjoyable if that big 'ol nose of his was the brunt of a FIP spell) and this has everything you want from some earwork. Disgusting potatoing of Regal's ear by JBL including a nifty spot where JBL literally appears to be ripping the ear off Regal's head. You have to love Regal's unique selling throughout this as he stumbles over the canvas trying to regain a sense of perspective and there's a wonderful sequence where Regal ducks a clothesline, can barely stand on his own two feet without toppling over before catching a quickfire exploder counter to the clothesline from hell. It only works as a nearfall however and JBL manages to rake the eyes long enough to hit an unconventional and appropriately meaty looking clothesline from hell for the win. Great Regal selling, well worked hometown veteran vs prick outsider title match and a hot crowd invested in everything Regal touches in. 


*Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs William Regal & Dave Taylor, Smackdown (12/8/06)*






Hell of an overlooked match here. Regal in particular is just so great here. Its often said he's one of the absolute best at the small details in a match and this is a picture perfect illustration of such praise. Just watch the way he sells something as effortless as an arm wrench from Kendrick by twitching his fingers and hopping on his toes and noticeably grimacing in pain, nothing another wrestler couldn't do but then when do you see anyone else take the time to even bother with something like that? Match is well worked with Londrick being more aggressive after having eaten a loss last week through Regal & Taylor interference but the match kicks into another geat with the London FIP spell. Regal & Taylor work really well in tandem and the transition spot is super with London attempting to skin the cat and Taylor opportunistically side kicking him in the face. Regal & Taylor work some snug holds and counters to ground London and Regal busts out a great half nelson suplex in the process. 

Couple of great veteran spots where Taylor cheapshots Kendrick on the apron whilst Regal hits a running knee on London in the ropes and where Taylor jumps on London to prevent the hot tag and immediately transitions into a submission. Regal also hits a really nasty running knee that spikes London on his forehead and which looked really nasty and there's a quick elbow exchange where Regal again is suitably rough with poor London. Hot tag is well built to and feels earned after a prolonged FIP spell but sadly they work an angle driven finish where London protects Ashley after Regal gestures towards her, leading to Kendrick eating a nasty apron bump and Taylor immediately transitions into a double underbook suplex for the win. The angle was really poor though since Regal was out of harms way and London spent a good 25 seconds needlessly taking Ashley across the ring and it felt very uncomfortable and poorly worked on their part and killed the crowd.


*Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs William Regal & Dave Taylor, Smackdown (1/22/07)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relev...d+kendrick+vs+regal+and+taylor/1#video=x2qm4x

Didn't think this matched their prior outing, but it was still a good outing from both and worth a watch. Regal & Taylor again work the middle stretch of the match well with various holds and just constantly overwhelming London with a barrage of stiff and physical strikes. Loved Regal drawing the referee out of position long enough for Taylor to cheapshot London. Its sad watching tag team wrestling in WWE today with a rushed format and them playing to the cliches of southern tag team formula without taking the time to include the finite heel antics that add to the heat and make the STF style so engrossing. Kendrick & London are more agile in the opening overwhelming the veterans with speed and agility and working numerous quick tags to prolong the control and the finishing stretch is fast paced and has a couple of nice nearfalls for both teams. Loved Regal's reaction to London's opportunistic and desperation schoolboy counter by immediately unleashing a barrage of knee drops and violent offence as a receipt. Served as a really well done reaction and admission on Regal's part that London wasn't to be toyed with. Finish was a tad anticlimatic and felt more like a nearfall that would feed the subsequent finish, but it was certainly an improvement over the finish to the first match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

REGAL :mark:

You seen his singles match with London (or maybe it's Kendrick. Maybe he wrestled both in singles, but one of them is super awesome)?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If I have I'm afraid I've forgotten about it. Tempted to go on a bit of a Regal binge in the next couple of days tbh. Came across some reviews of his '93-94 run in WCW and it got me giddy to revisit that stellar period where he was working Steamboat, Zbyszko, Arn, Pillman, Johnny B Badd and numerous others. Hopefully most of 'em will still be on the usual sites.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nov 24th 2006 - Kendrick Vs Regal is the match I'm thinking of .

Definitely go watch Regal's 93. His 96 too if you can. I watched a boat load of Regal for the WCW poll. Some awesome shit.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nice one on the date, will have a gander online now.

Yeah I haven't really explored that timeframe since completing the WCW poll. Your Regal comp will likely be my next order sometime in mid-late April after my birthday because he's such a great guy to watch in any setting regardless of the quality of the match. The array of workers he wrestled in that time as TV champion has me stoked and there's a Saturday Night '94 match vs Dave Taylor that has already won rave reviews from a few folk.

May rewatch Regal/Zbyszko Saturday Night 5/28/94 as well to see how it compares to the last watch. Adored it that time around and tentatively hoping to love it even more on the latest watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Love those Zbyszko matches, though I always seem to be the opposite with people when it comes to which I liked more (guessing I liked their Clash match over their SN match or something?) . In Zbyszko's book he talks about how he hand picked Regal to work that program with, because while doing commentary he kept seeing everyone just constantly using clotheslines and he was utterly SICK of that move, then Regal came along and was completely different and stood out so much that Zbyszko wanted to come out of retirement to help give him a rub. And the clothesline thing is so fucking true as well lol... WCW 92-94... good GOD :| .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cal gonna Cal  . Nah, off memory they were all of a consistently high standard but 5/28 did stand out to me as their best outing. Be excited to watch the Regal/Flair Queensberry Rules series since I think for whatever dumbfuck reason I overlooked it for the poll (or if I watched it I have absolutely no recollection) and have heard great things about it from you, Seabs, Andy, Sterling, Moops and hell anyone who watched it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Clique said:


> I've been saying it ever since the June PPV location was announced for Chicago - Cena vs. Punk at WWE Payback.


Such a perfectly fitting PPV name for that match. Ladder match please. (Y)



KingOfKings said:


> Cena-Punk is *THE* Rivalry that I wanna see over and over again, regardless of who wins.


:yes



Big Z said:


> Rivalries:
> 
> Tazz vs. Sabu
> Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA
> ...


WOW. Match listing started out great with a bunch of non-released stuff but then they just started double dippin their dicks all over the place. I mean, I love both of those matches, but really? Magnum/Tully has been released twice and Tazz/Sabu JUST came out last year for ECW Unreleased. How do you not put an Eddie/Rey match on here?

Legitimately shocked that Bret/Austin & HBK/Jericho didn't make the list. Instead we got Tazz/Sabu... :no: Not too sure if I'll be buying this now. Loooots of repeats.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK bless you for the Regal reviews. Legit got goosebumps when I read there was a hidden Regal vs JBL match out there. FROM THE UK. :mark:

When the conversation is Regal I tend to get personally invested much, much more.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

so i watched great american bash 2000 last night. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Boot Camp match. Ambulance Match. HUMAN TORCH MATCH. Best of some fucking number of Tables Match. ASYLUM MATCH. 

Goldberg going heel to top it off. :lmao

Bet you had some fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Why does Goldberg turning heel sound so funny? I mean, even I laugh just as I _think_ about it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HE'S NEW BLOOD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c turning the most over guy heel randomly was a terrible move. Nobody wanted to boo Goldberg. It's why he went back to being a face only a few months later.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I totally agree that the Taker/Edge HiaC match at Summerslam is better than their WM match. I loved both though.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Boot Camp match. Ambulance Match. HUMAN TORCH MATCH. Best of some fucking number of Tables Match. ASYLUM MATCH.
> 
> Goldberg going heel to top it off. :lmao
> 
> Bet you had some fun.


Pamela Paulshock called it an "ambalance" match.

And of course, the match featured a Kanyon heel turn on DDP in classic Russo fashion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When the point behind the match was DDP working vs the "career killer" Mike Awesome in honor for what he _(Awesome)_ did to Kanyon at Slamboree. Russo couldn't help himself there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ :russo

How he has ANY marks blows my fucking mind.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He sure as hell gave us a memorable year in 2000. Don't know why he gets so much "hate". His wacky booking decisions makes me think of the guy as a comic element much more than someone who is using unusual tactics to somehow damage the wrestling biz.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He's like wrestling's Tommy Wiseau to me honestly :lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> He's like wrestling's Tommy Wiseau to me honestly :lol.


No fucking way. Wiseau's an acting GAWD! Don't compare him that peasant.



















and the mother of them all:






(Yes, this is very much off topic)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Battle Royal for the Intercontinental championship- Judgement Day 2003​*Yup, it's a Battle Royal for the vacant Intercontinental title (why they thought it was a good idea to get rid of the mid-card titles during this time is beyond me). The Battle Royal starts and everyone goes after Kane with Kane throwing them off of him to stay in the match. Kane starts kicking ass and eliminates Lance Storm. Everyone goes back to attacking Kane again. They are finally able to eliminate Kane from the Battle Royal. Kane gets back into the ring and starts kicking ass again, handing out chokeslams. Kane leaves the ring and another elimination occurs with Booker T taking out Test. Goldust eliminates Val Venis from the match. Jericho in a sweet looking spot eliminates RVD from the Battle Royal with a Springboard dropkick. 

The 4 remaining in the match are Goldust, Chris Jericho, Christian, and Booker T. It now turns into Booker T & Goldust vs Jericho & Christian for a bit. Both Goldust and Booker T give Christian and Jericho a Shattered Dreams. Goldust then gets Booker T to do the Spinaroonie. Goldust tries to eliminate Booker T from behind but Booker T ends up throwing Goldust out of the ring. Funny stuff. Jericho and Christian start to go after Booker T. Jericho and Christian tries to eliminate Booker T but Booker T fights back. Christian and Jericho attack on Booker T again. Jericho tries to give Booker T a Lionsault but gets eliminated by Christian. The final two are now Booker T vs Christian. Christian gets the upperhand in the match for a bit. Booker T then gets in control of the match. Christian tries to give Booker T a Baseball Slide dropkick but ends up hitting the referee. Booker T eliminates Christian with a kick but the referee is still knocked out. Pat Patterson goes to the ring to award Booker T the vacant Intercontinental title but Christian hits him with a punch and grabs the Intercontinental title. Christian goes inside the ring and hits Booker T with the Intercontinental title. Christian throws the Intercontinental title from out of the ring, picks Booker T up, and eliminates Booker T. The referee is now up to see the elimination and Christian wins the match, becoming the new Intercontinental champion. 

Rating: ****. Not much to say here. Just an average Battle Royal match. I thought the eliminations came way too fast though. Still, seeing Christian win the vacant Intercontinental title was a pretty good ending to the match.

Next review: Tajiri & Eddie vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team - Judgement Day 2003 Ladder Match for the WWE tag team titles


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Vince McMahon vs. Triple H - Armageddon 1999*

This match was on a pack I downloaded a few weeks ago titled Best Matches of 1995-2004. This was a No Holds Barred match. I was not watching wrestling at this time and didn't have any idea why these two were fighting since they were both heel, but the pre-match video package showed that Vince screwed HHH out of the WWF title at Survivor Series and HHH married Steph while she was unconscious. This match started off really good. I'm not sure if you can even call this a match because it was a straight up brawl. Typical Attitude Era stuff. They go in the crowd, around the ring, backstage, and even outside in the rain. There were some pretty heavy shots being thrown, made it look real. Vince especially took a few bumps to the head and he was busted open. The ending came when Vince grabbed the sledgehammer that HHH introduced into the match and was about to hit him with it, but Steph came into the ring and said she wanted to hit him instead. She stalls too long and HHH takes advantage of the situation and gets the win. After the match she turns heel by hugging her husband.

Overall, this was a great brawl. I would love to see stuff like this more these days, but it ain't gonna happen.

Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vince was a face at that time in 1999. Didn't return to being a heel come WrestleMania 2000 when he finally "approved" of Steph's decision. I know, what a crappy swerve saved up for WrestleMania.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Could have been worse. Could have been Miz vs Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That wasn't a swerve. Only a poor match to end the show. Which isn't uncommon when looking back at the history of Mania.

Watched the 12/6/06 Blue Bloods vs Team ROH tag WOOLCOCK posted and yeah - Fits the mold of Smackdown in 2006 being filled with a quality match every week. Finlay had a match vs Batista on the same show. Wonder if I can find it and see if it is worth a watch. Gets quite a chunk of time behind it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I noticed that... I think we buy too much into the "Wrestlemania Fever" that we forget that essentially half of Wrestlemania lore completely fucking sucks.

When it's great... It's epic and some of the best matches/moments ever honestly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gets me to think how many WrestleMania main events - implied by the final match - have actually been "great".

V - Hogan vs Savage
VI - Hogan vs Warrior
VII - Hogan vs Slaughter _(Minority opinion)_
XIX - Brock vs Angle
XX - Benoit vs HHH vs HBK
XXIII - Cena vs HBK
XXIV - Undertaker vs Edge
XXVI - Undertaker vs HBK

All the rest are either good, average, or bad. Bigelow vs Taylor is up in the air until I finally get a chance to relive it. Recall it being totally awesome tbhayley. Perhaps it holds up enough to make the cut.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would put HBK/Austin on that list, imo. I'm a huge mark for that match though.


----------



## Zk29 (Mar 13, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Gets me to think how many WrestleMania main events - implied by the final match - have actually been "great".
> 
> V - Hogan vs Savage
> VI - Hogan vs Warrior
> ...


I really enjoyed just about every Wrestlemania main event except IV, VIII, XXV, and XVII. Yes even Bam Bam vs LT had its moments.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Michaels is pretty good. Not nearly as weak as some had tried to claim it is. Not sure if I'd call it great, personally. Hate to beat a dead horse, but the ever popular rewatch is needed for that match too. It's what I get for holding off on the rest of reviewing the 90's portion of The History of the WWE Championship DVD. Although I've seen Hogan vs Warrior many times to know I still find it to be great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Miz/Cena has to be the best WM main event they ever put out. I don't see how you can argue it. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only Bret vs Shawn Iron Man can rival it. I should have realized this before making my post. :hayley2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've honestly never seen that Bret/HBK match. :lmao For a match of it's length and the criticism I've heard of it, it sounds like such a chore.

But god they had to have looked more enthused than Cena and Miz did. I swear it was like they didn't even want to be out there.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Bret vs. Shawn is a masterpiece.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of being poorly worked. No doubt.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - Wrestlemania 13*

Earlier my roommate told me he wanted to see a Stone Cold match. One where they used weapons and went into the crowd and stuff. So I went back into my memory bank and figured this would be a perfect time to watch that made Stone Cold Steve Austin. He was hooked onto the match and so was I. I've only seen the match once or twice before and didn't remember much about it other than the ending. But holy crap this was amazing and now I truly understand why it gets so much praise. I wasn't expecting a technical classic, but I also didn't expect things to escalate so quickly. They went into the crowd, Stone Cold was throwing beers, they used a couple of chairs, the ring bell, and a long wire for choking purposes. I understand that this was all new to the WWF at this point so it really adds significance to this match because many people believe that this match was the start of the Attitude Era. 

I recall reading somewhere that Stone Cold wasn't supposed to blade in the match, but did it anyways and Vince was pissed. Everything about this match was perfect. I had no idea what this feud was really about, but you could still feel the intensity and passion between the two combatants that really drew you in. It's what is lacking in today's product. You don't need blood, you don't need weapons. You just need two guys to go out there and lay it all on the line and that's what they did. Bret did anything and everything he could do to win and he did. He walked in as a face and walked out as a heel. Austin walked in as the villain and he left as the hero. A double turn is such a rare occurrence and can be hard to pull off, but these guys did it perfectly. I don't think you could have picked two better guys to pull it off. The image of Stone Cold laying in a pool of his own blood is such an iconic image that it gives me goosebumps. Even my roommate was speechless when they zoomed in on his face when he was in the sharpshooter.




























*Closing thoughts:* This is the perfect match. It was everything pro wrestling should be and is about. It had intensity, passion, energy, emotion, everything. Stone Cold was made a star on this night and Bret Hart added a dimension to his character that was out of his element. Both guys took something away from this match and never looked back.

*Rating:* *****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bret/Shawn's 1st 40 mins are duller than heel Alberto Del Rio. The finishing sequence RULES though.

And speaking of Bret, he's got an alright Mania run:

WWF/NFL Battle Royal - **3/4
vs Dream Team & Tito - ***1/2
WM 4 Battle Royal - **
vs HTM & Valentine - ***
vs Bolsheviks - DUD
vs Nasty Boys - ***3/4
vs Piper - ****1/2
vs Yokozuna I - ***
vs Owen - *****
vs Yokozuna II - **3/4
vs Backlund - DUD
vs HBK - ****1/4
vs Austin - GOAT :mark:
vs Vince - DUD

Shamefully, three DUD's for Bret. However, the Piper, Owen and Austin matches rule the fucking world. And everything else ranges from very good despite some pacing issues (hello Bret/HBK) to OK.

*EDIT~*: While on that subject, I just found another potential contender for Mr. WM - STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD:

vs Vega - ***
vs Bret - GOAT :mark:
vs HBK - ****3/4
vs Rock I - ****
vs Rock II - *****
vs Hall - *** (Extra star for the GOAT Stunner)
vs Rock III - ****1/2

At 7 matches, its a pretty short run, but with the GOAT WWE match ever, four other ****/+ classics and two other *** matches, Austin's got dat WM SWAG.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only major noteworthy matches Austin has had at Mania really is vs Bret & Rock III. Rest are all quite good, but nothing great. Well, match vs Hall sucks hard. No getting around that one.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

whats the worst wcw ppv in 2000? i plan to watch that for comedy.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Regal/JBL match WOOLCOCK posted is stellar. Pre-match work from both men was nice and I love fired up Regal. Ear work is rad and I think Regals the only guy off the top of my head ive seen do it (did it in the second Ambrose match too iirc). One of the nearfalls actually had me believing it for a second too which I always dig in old matches. Definitely going to have to check out those two tags later on.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> whats the worst wcw ppv in 2000? i plan to watch that for comedy.


That's a top year so hard to say. King Of The Ring? I remember the main event sucking hard.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I said WCW.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> I said WCW.


Haha my bad. fpalm

It's too early over here haha.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> whats the worst wcw ppv in 2000? i plan to watch that for comedy.


Halloween Havoc, imo. 

I know KO Bossy fancies Uncensored 2000 as their worst. Can't forget about New Blood Rising & you've taken care of GAB already.



Shepard said:


> Regal/JBL match WOOLCOCK posted is stellar. Pre-match work from both men was nice and I love fired up Regal. Ear work is rad and I think Regals the only guy off the top of my head ive seen do it (did it in the second Ambrose match too iirc). One of the nearfalls actually had me believing it for a second too which I always dig in old matches. Definitely going to have to check out those two tags later on.


I clicked it but the dailymotion link wouldn't work. 

First Blue Bloods vs Team ROH tag is phenomenal despite a lacking lead in for the finish. Small potatoes to the bulk which more than delivered.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm watching new blood rising now. tank Abbott singing and dancing :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I believe his shirt also has the area by his nipples cut out so we can see them...

Only the beginning. :|


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

this is a decent match tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, opener is fine. Only comical aspect is what they're fighting over. It is the REST of the show that leaves you scratching your head. Main event is solid too, iirc. :lmao @ the next two matches. Second match mostly b/c of what it represents & you can't believe you saw it. Unless I'm jumbling matches two and three together.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

muta vs the cat?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Battle of the Martial Arts. And WCW picked the right guy to shine during it too...

Match three is infamous among wrestling fans. A quick FYI for ya there.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wtf am I watching :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW circa 2000, brudda. SOAK IT IN.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Judy bagwell on a forklift!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JUDY BAGWELL ON A POLE MATCH

If any match from the latter years ever deserved to have Dusty Rhodes on commentary...my goodness the comments that could have been said.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

REGAL TALK :mark:. That JBL match is tons of fun. Love his tags with Taylor Vs Londrick. Was actually disappointed when their match at Armageddon was made into a 4 way ladder match. And then I watched the match and wasn't disappointed no more .

WM 3 review on my BLOG~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same thought came over me. Part of is annoyance b/c the build for the standard tag match was nothing more than a showcase for all 4 to rule it up & not get a prime PPV match out of it. On the other hand, it was a hell of a surprise ladder match that was given to the fans. Clear cut favorite among all who watch. So you take away something good only to give something back of equal or greater value. WWE didn't make a mistake there. Although Joey Mercury might say they did. So. Fuxin. Brutal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal half-nelson suplexing either London or Kendrick onto a fucking ladder is the highlight for me. I remember that spot more than the face smashing spot lol .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember all the spots. :mark: 

Nitro dropkicking the ladder out from under Jeff Hardy from the apron leading to seeing Jeff plummet at least 10 feet straight into the top rope is AWESOME.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cody if you just search JBL/Regal in Dailymotion its the first match that pops up, also has the date next to it to ensure no confusion  . It worked fine for me so not sure why the link had problems your end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dunno myself. Clicked it twice, claimed there was an error, I said some swear words a lot, watched one of the tags instead. Think I plugged it briefly in here but go to the Last Wrestling Match watched thread to see a glimpse of my thoughts. _(b/c I'm so important and stuff...ugh at my self-promotion. I really should be an Agent out there in Hollyweird. I'd kill. Losing track of things as we go along, fuxin red bull.)_


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/JBL+vs+William+Regal/1#

First match there 

Shall do. Now speaking of self-promotion, a week and a feckin' half since you made room for WOS on Tuesday. What the fuck man? That's such a Jamm move. Have I been Jammed Cody? Or worse, have I been the victim of your chang of heart? Now I know how the Monarch feels everyday Rusty Venture walks around free of pain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Me be Jamm? FUCK. I thought I'd soften the blow by watching Regal matches you pimped but guess my ploy wasn't good enough. That and it doesn't take much - aka ANY - convincing to have me watch a Regal match.

What's today, Wednesday? Maybe I'll watch a WOS match today. Got me 3 big shows to watch & finish. Will WOS finally knock off NJPW? Or WCW '97? Wait, next up for me on WCW is a Konnan match. vs Mysterio. Wow this is a dilemma. Will it be tolerable b/c Konnan has the best opponent possible or will it be the worst b/c it is fuxin Konnan? IS MARTY JONES BETTER THAN ALL OF THIS? SO MANY QUESTIONS.

But, yeah. I really do need to make time for it. Plus, I want to. Honestly, I do.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KONNAN? Sweat valley high Cody that's just insulting. Davey Boy Smith at aged 16 was better than feckin' Konnan ever was. Marty Jones is 10x better than Dynamite Kid and is the worker Dynamite Kid would have been if he had as much intelligence and ability to convey emotion as he did natural agility. There, that outta do it  (should add that is my legit opinion, and not just something to intice you into watching Jones)

I might actually watch a few WOS matches today if I can find 'em. Then tonight some more Regal viewing :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I totally agree that the Taker/Edge HiaC match at Summerslam is better than their WM match. I loved both though.


:cool2 Agree there mate, i personally think the HIAC match is fucking spectacular tbh, really loved it, esp the end when Taker comes back into the ring after he won and throws Edge off the ladder


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge/Undertaker order of awesomeness:

1. WM ****1/2
2. Backlash ****
3. HIAC ****
4. JD ***3/4

10298376467263. TLC **

Half way through WM 18 now. WM 17 is the highest on the CAL SCALE so far, and is 8.5 points ahead of the #2 event... which I'm fairly certain nobody else would have as high as me .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Edge/Taker:

1. WM - *****1/2*
2. HIAC - *****1/4*
3. Backlash - ****3/4*
4. TLC - *****

I can't recall that Judgment Day match at all so wouldn't know where to put that. I'll watch it again soon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Edge/Taker:

1. WM - ****1/2
2. HIAC - ****1/2

Never seen the TLC match (gonna soon), and i dont remember the BL/JD matches lol, think ill watch 'em tonight...


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

If I'm going to hop on this ECW 2009 train like all the cool kids is there a particular point it gets good or is it just the whole year? :hmm:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection - Disc 2

*The Hart Foundation vs. The Twin Towers - *** 3/4
_Duluth, MN 4/10/1989

_Bret Hart vs. Tiger Mask II - **
_WWF/NJPW/AJPW Wrestling Summit 4/13/1990_

*Intercontinental Championship
*Bret Hart (c) vs. Ric Flair - ***
_New Haven, CT 11/13/1991

_Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker - ****
_MSG 1/31/1992

_Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - *** 3/4
_Milan, Italy 4/25/1993_


- My goodness the Twin Towers match is so good. 80% of it is just isolation on Bret but it's so brilliantly done. They basically just sit on him, squash him, and squeeze the life out of him for a long ass time and cut him off every time it looks like he'll make the hot tag, and when he does make the tag all hell breaks loose. The finish is kinda weird (idk who Hebner was counting) but the rest of the match is a total blast and really made Boosman & Akeem look great. Great inclusion Bret. (Y)

- I'm sad to say it but Bret vs. Misawa (Tiger Mask II) is really, really boring. It never seems to kick out of first gear and has no direction whatsoever. Bret's heel tactics with the faking of the leg injury is the highlight of the match but the overuse of restholds nearly put me to sleep (not even a joke). The time limit draw didn't help things either... Sad panda.

- Bret vs. Flair is a tough one. Two of all the time greats, but they just never clicked together like you'd hope. This was a pretty decent, lengthy tv match but it never got to a level that you knew both guys were capable of. I hate when the Figure Four & Sharpshooter are applied in matches with no build, merit, or prior matwork. It just feels so random & they're guilty of this in both of the matches I've seen from the two. This isn't a bad inclusion, like I said solid match but never took off & the finish really sucks.

- OH MY GOD, BRET VS. TAKER. :mark: I absolutely adored everything about this. Taker's character work, zombie like stalking, methodical picking apart offense, & basically his overall presence is amazing. It was still really early in his career so when he pulled out the big moves that he's known for today (old school, flying clothesline, etc.) it got a huge reaction from the crowd and announcers. Bret's selling, underdog comebacks, & attempts to slay the giant with everything in his arsenal are just brilliant. The announcing from Gorilla & Heenan was fantastic. The finishing sequence was exciting, the whole match is just awesome! Have you seen this *Big Z*? Cause if you haven't, you should definitely check it out. Knowing you're a big Taker fan and all.

- Bret vs. Bam Bam is really good, go figure right?  Bam Bam tries to get fancy in the early going & show off his speed and agility. Bret just lets him fall on his face. Bret then tries to show off and gets cocky and poses to the crowd for a while. In return he gets caught outside and DESTROYED with about 10 minutes of extensive backwork. Not everyone's going to enjoy it because it's a slower paced match that's heavy on control segments and psychology, but everything comes together well throughout. Bam Bam hits a butterfly backbreaker and it really caught me off guard. Good stuff.​


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Shepard said:


> If I'm going to hop on this ECW 2009 train like all the cool kids is there a particular point it gets good or is it just the whole year? :hmm:


I think January up until the draft is excellent. IIRC ECW lost a fair chunk of talent in either the draft or a later supplemental draft but before that you have Swagger as champ, Finlay, Christian, Henry, Bourne, Miz & Morrison etc tearing it up. August-October gives you a Regal/Christian series but the first initial stretch has Swagger/Christian 2/24 and Backlash rematch, Bourne/Morrison 4/14, Bourne & Colons vs Miz/Morrison & Kid 4/7, a bunch of tags and four ways. Cal is likely the best to fill you in since he's working his way through most of the year currently.

Regal/Dreamer from 11/8 is also a stellar sub 10 minute match dominated by a world class Regal performance and a surprisingly strong Dreamer selling performance.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Of course I've seen that match lol. Its fecking UNDERTAKER. Didn't think it was anywhere near **** though lol .


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

It's true. Out of 28 WrestleManias, only a handful feature GREAT main events. IMO:

VI - ****
VII - ****
X-Seven - ****1/2
XIX - ****
XX - *****
23 - ****
XXIV - ****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Of course I've seen that match lol. Its fecking UNDERTAKER. Didn't think it was anywhere near **** though lol .


Well... watch it again!  I seriously loved it. Maybe I just haven't seen enough Taker from the early years, idk. Shit was great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll watch it again eventually. Too busy with WM's atm lol. 19 is up next :mark:.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched Bret-Misawa that time and was coming on here to post about how underwhelming it was. They do some REALLY dumb shit in that match such as the headlock spot into an abdominal stretch (Bret Angle?) and it just comes off as boring and tedious to watch. It's a fine worked match in the sense that everything's all crisp and all that nonsense but damn is that match dull. Agree with *JE187's* sentiments on this one and I'm heading to the Flair match now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hogan/Hansen from the same show at Bret/TM is waaaay better . Savage Vs Tenryu was somewhat disappointing too . Better than the Bret match, but disappointing considering who was in it (FUCKING TENRYU).


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just finished downloading all the WCW PPVs from 1991 to 1993 :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh man, wait until Beach Blast '92 :mark: . Sting/Foley is one of both men's best matches and the best WCW match in history is also found on the card. Starrcade '92 also has two great matches in Vader/Sting & Steamboat/Douglas vs Windham/Pillman.

You get some tremendous matches however in that timeframe. Superbrawl '93 also has Benoit/Scorpio, Rock n Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies and the best Vader/Sting match in the series, the Strap Match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

"Ric Flair's only problem is that he has no psychology" - Bret "Hitman" Hart.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Oh man, wait until Beach Blast '92 :mark: . Sting/Foley is one of both men's best matches and the best WCW match in history is also found on the card. Starrcade '92 also has two great matches in Vader/Sting & Steamboat/Douglas vs Windham/Pillman.
> 
> You get some tremendous matches however in that timeframe. Superbrawl '93 also has Benoit/Scorpio, Rock n Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies and the best Vader/Sting match in the series, the Strap Match.


Oh, and I made sure to download Spring Stampede '94 too :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Oh, and I made sure to download Spring Stampede '94 too :mark:


Oh man. Haven't seen Regal/Pillman in forever but I know they have one match that people think highly of. Dustin/Bunkhouse Buck is a stellar match and a truly great brawl. Dustin is sensational as the pissed off and veangeful babyface and Buck is a really great hand in that element. Vader/The Boss is everything you want in a sub 10 minute match. Stiff with constant great action and the Steamboat/Flair main event alongside the Saturday Night encounter is another feather in their magnetic series. 

These are the matches from PPV between '91-'93 I had on my WCW ballot:

Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude, US Title, 30 Minute Ironman Match, Beach Blast '92
Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham vs Anderson/Eaton/Zbyszko/Austin/Rude, WAR GAMES XXIII, Wrestlewar '92
Sting vs Vader, Leather Strap Match, Superbrawl '93
Ric Flair vs Vader, WCW Heavyweight Championship vs Career, Starrcade '93
Flair/Windham/Sid Vicious/Zbyszko vs Sting/Pillman/The Steiners, WAR GAMES XVIII, Wrestlewar '91
Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas vs Brian Pillman & Barry Windham, Starrcade '92

Dustin Rhodes & Barry Windham vs Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko, Superbrawl '92
Sting vs Cactus Jack, Falls Count Anywhere, Beach Blast '92
Sting vs Vader, King Of Cable Finals, Starrcade '92
Ricky Steamboat vs Lord Steven Regal, TV Title, Fallbrawl '93
Sting vs Vader, WCW Heavyweight Championship, Great American Bash '92
Cactus Jack vs Paul Orndorff, Falls Count Anywhere, Superbrawl '93

Vader vs Davey Boy Smith, Slamboree '93
Chris Benoit vs 2 Cold Scorpio, Superbrawl '93
Rock n Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies, Superbrawl '93

Obviously there are so many Worldwide & Clash of the Champions matches from that time frame that produced equally as stellar matches, but all of the above are at the minimum very good.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

And I just downloaded a bunch of Finlay, Benoit and Regal stuff from the mid 00s. :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Individual matches of each Joe or as in matches against each other? Benoit/Finlay 5/5/06 and 11/24/06 are sensational and Benoit/Regal Velocity 7/16/05 & No Mercy '06 aren't far behind it. Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day '06 is the peak of their three way series though.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

30ish individual matces, some of those including matches against each other. i.e. Finlay/Regal GAB 2006, etc.

I could watch those forever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I hope Finlay/Hardy 6/22/07 is on that list somewhere. Top 5 Smackdown match ever at worst and t'other day I said it was likely a top 3 match from '07 for me. Maybe Matt's best ever babyface performance alongside the Unforgiven '05 Cage match vs Edge and Finlay is meticulously smooth in control and throws in a ton of nifty Finlay moments. Matt does a Fujiwara esque sell off of a stiff forearm that I absolutely adore as well.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just watched two matches from my WrestleMania 22 DVD:

Edge vs Mick Foley - hardcore match - *****1/2*

This is probably the tenth time I've watched this match and it's just as good as the first time I watched it. What I can say, it's brutal, violent, gory, and thoroughly entertaining. One of Edge's best matches and WrestleMania, and it's tied with Taker/Edge for singles matches from him for me. The use of barbed wire, thumbtacks, and fire set this part from the average hardcore match of the time, and it's appropriate they went all out with all how heated the feud between them at the time, with Edge believing Foley screwed him out of going to WrestleMania as WWE Champion when Foley was the guest ref for a Cena/Edge title match. The fact they wen't all out really added to the match too, and it provided some really good spots such as Edge spearing Foley but hurting himself when Foley had barbed wire wrapped around in his waist, and Foley backdropping Edge into some thumbtacks, and the infamous spot when Edge spears Foley through a flaming table which I think is one of the best hardcore spots in history, got to be best for WrestleMania. Edge actually got the worst of it in that spot I think because he goes face first into the fire when he spears Foley. And I also have to give props to Lita for some of the spots she took in this match, during Edge's rise to the top in 05/06 she would frequently take some hits in his matches, and it's props because I don't think any other diva would take as much as she did at the time. 

And finally it's fitting I watched this match with the Edge project I've been on lately of reviewing many of his matches.

Carlito and Chris Masters vs Big Show and Kane - World Tag Team Title match - ***3/4*

Been a while since I watched this match. It's a fun opener with the new young rising stars at the time, in Carlito and Chris Masters, trying to beat one of the biggest tag teams (in terms of actual size) in wrestling history at their first WrestleMania. Kane surprise me in the early part of the match by performing a leapfrog and a standing dropkick, didn't remember that from my last watch of this match. Kane and Big Show dominate the first part of the match, Big Show uses his sheer power to military press Masters who rolls out to the outside after the impact, and then Big Show military presses Carlito to the outside into Masters, then Kane does his classic diving clothesline off the top rope onto both of them. Carlito and Masters take control when Carlito performs a drop toe hold to The Big Show into a exposed turnbuckle that Carlito exposed earlier, and into a double flapjack for a close near fall. Carlito and Masters then attempt a double suplex on The Big Show, but Show reverses and suplexes both of them, then makes the hot tag to Kane. Kane's comes in strong and it looks like the control is back in their favor, but Masters counters Kane's attempt at another diving clothesline into a Master lock, which was unbreakable at the time. I feel Masters should of got the submission here, but Big Show breaks it up. Carlito then delivers a backstabber Kane, but Kane sits up, Masters goes off the top rope but accidently takes out Carlito with a axe handle, which is funny and almost some payback for Masters despite it being accidental, given how Carlito eliminated Masters in the Rumble a few month prior and turned on him in the Elimination Chamber. Anyway, off that distraction Kane chokeslam's Masters for the win. I kinda wish Carlito and Masters won the titles here, both were hot in 2006 and Kane and Big Show didn't _need_ to hold the titles then, especially since they ended up losing them to the Spirit Squad. It's sad that Masters never won a title in the WWE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nostalgia, I whole-heartedly agree with both your WM 22-related ratings. And considering you're going through an Edge project, here are a couple of recommended matches:

- Royal Rumble '05 and two Street Fights vs. HBK
- Vengeance '06 vs. RVD
- Royal Rumble '08 vs. Rey
- TLC match vs. Flair


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Which was your favorite WCW Match? Mine definetely Sting/Foley from Beach Blast 92'


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sting/Hogan - Starrcade 1997 :side:

Oh wait, that match gives me a massive headache and makes me want to put Hogan in the sharpshooter for about............6 months :cuss:

Sting/Vader is one that i always go back and watch, mostly the Superbrawl match, but also Sting/Flair too, but there are lots of course


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> Nostalgia, I whole-heartedly agree with both your WM 22-related ratings. And considering you're going through an Edge project, here are a couple of recommended matches:
> 
> - Royal Rumble '05 and two Street Fights vs. HBK
> - Vengeance '06 vs. RVD
> ...


I appreciate those recommendations, I've seen all those matches except from his Royal Rumble match with Rey though. But it's always good to re-watch them again. Recently watched Edge/Flair TLC, and Edge/HBK street fight from 2005. And I recently reviewed Edge's street fight with HBK in a post here: 



Nostalgia said:


> Edge vs Shawn Michaels - street fight - RAW January 28th 2005.
> 
> Edge is a heel here and it's around the time when I started to dig Edge's character when he became that crazy, obsessed to be World Champion Edge. Match starts off fast paced as HBK is trying to get revenge on Edge from Edge's attack on him the previous week. A few minutes into the match they start fighting in the crowd, something we don't see much anymore. There's a funny moment when HBK picks up a camera from a fan and takes a picture of Edge.  Literally a few minutes in and HBK already brings out a ladder, only for Edge to nail him with a trash can and take control of the match. Crowd are firmly in HBK's corner, both wrestlers are in street gear which is again something you almost never see anymore, I like it. There's a nasty spot when Edge does a impaler DDT on the chair to HBK which opens him up, HBK being the master at playing the bleeding babyface in trouble. HBK gains back control a few minutes later with a unique spot when HBK throws the ladder at Edge when Edge was on the top turnbuckle attempt to do a diving move. In another nice spot Edge does a nice diving splash off the ladder to HBK. HBK gives Edge an sick chair shot to the head, only pointing that out because JR sold it so perfectly.  JR would make anything seem better than it actually was. These matches are much more enjoyable because of him. Edge hits a spear on HBK which I actually thought was going to be the win, but HBK kicked out, couldn't really remember this match too well so I can't remember the finish, but after Edge is frustrated that HBK kicked out of the spear, he attempts to go for another one only for him to walk right into HBK's Sweet Chin Music. It makes sense that HBK won here because Edge beat at the Royal Rumble a month prior.
> 
> A very enjoyable TV match, I'd rate it ****3/4*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Favourite WCW match?

I need to watch more WCW in all honesty, but I'll go ahead an say the obvious answers of Regal/Finlay Uncensored 96, War Games 1992 and Rey/Eddie Halloween Havoc 1997.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed, all those matches are really good. The Rey match is an awesome fast paced sprint with great storytelling (I gave it ***3/4). Here's a link to the match: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4jmin_edge-vs-rey-mysterio-royal-rumble-2_sport#.UUDghRx92cs


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My favourite WCW match is probably Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993. Was also #2 on my top 100 list .


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> "Ric Flair's only problem is that he has no psychology" - Bret "Hitman" Hart.


LOL


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

My favorite WCW match would have to be Chris Benoit vs Bret Hart in an Owen Hart tribute match on Nitro. I always thought that this match was 5-star worthy. 

Sting vs Catus Jack in an I Quit match is another favorite WCW match of mine.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Bret Hart vs Diesel from Survivor Series 95. Slow but enjoyable match with some good leg work by Bret and selling by Diesel. Also liked the outsmarting finish with him playing possum. ★★★¾


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just started downloading a Blitzkrieg pack off of XWT. :mark::mark::mark:

Blitzkriegamania is gonna' run wild over this thread. The guy was fun as hell and deserves a lot more love from everybody.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Shawn V Cena WM 23 ****1/2

Cena's second best match ever. A remarkable match.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

HBK/Cena is the best Mania main event ever.

Yes, even better than Austin/Rock.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I watched HBK/Cena yesterday and couldn't go higher than ****. Cena no selling his leg was the big reason for that. Michaels worked on it for a few minutes and Cena just started running like nothing happened. He shook his leg out once and that was it.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Guys how bout a top ten undertaker WM match rankings/list???

1. Vs HBK WM 25. *****. GOAT match in wwe history.

2. Vs HBK WM 26 ****3/4

3. Vs Edge WM 24. ****1/2. Edges counters in this match makes it amazing.

4. Vs HHH. WM 27. ****1/2. Amazing selling makes this match great for me. I know Some dis agree.

5. Vs HHH WM 28. ****1/2

6. Vs Kane WM 14. ****1/4. Only WM match I expected taker to lose. 

7. Vs Batista WM 23. ****1/4

8. Vs Randy Orton WM 21. ****1/4

9. Vs ric flair WM 18. ****. Soooo underrated

10. Vs HHH WM 17. ****. 


You could seriously put 6,7 and 8 in any of those order IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Better than HHH/HBK/KrispinWah and Taker/HBK II as well? Each one's their opinion, I guess.

Cena/HBK Mania is surely MOTY for 07 though (but not my favorite, that belongs to Orton/HBK at SS - one of HBK's GOAT performances right there)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think Cena/HBK was even MOTN at WM 23, and wouldn't be close to MOTY (well, probably in the top 10 at the bottom, top 15 at worst).


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

My MOTY for 2007 was HBK/Edge/Orton/Cena from Backlash. I have that at ****1/4. HBK/Cena, Batista/Taker LMS and the Rumble Match are tied for second at ****.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Uhh...Cena sold the leg entire work over segment and definitely shook it more than "once" after Michaels was busted open.

Edit - Cena owns a spot in 4 of the top 5 matches from 2007.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/HBK SS '07 is my favourite and runner-up to the Backlash 4-Way and Cena/HBK as the best. One of the most undertalked great matches ever.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

-Mystery- said:


> Uhh...Cena sold the leg entire work over segment and definitely shook it more than "once" after Michaels was busted open.
> 
> Edit - Cena owns a spot in 4 of the top 5 matches from 2007.


Michaels finished working it over and Cena got up ran at him and tackled him. He then got up and did a running shoulder tackle. He stood up shook his leg out then did a five knuckle shuffle and never did anything else with it.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Cena/Lashley is my favorite match from 2007.

Cena da gawd in 2007.



Dark Church said:


> Michaels finished working it over and Cena got up ran at him and tackled him. He then got up and did a running shoulder tackle. He stood up shook his leg out then did a five knuckle shuffle and never did anything else with it.


He shook it out in the corner before charging after Michaels then shook it out another 2 or 3 times right before the 5 knuckle shuffle. All that coupled with 4-5 mins of nonstop selling during the work over period is fine.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Here's how I would position Undertaker's Mania matches if anyone cares:

*******
vs. HBK WM 25

*****3/4*
vs. HBK WM 26

*****1/2*
vs. Edge WM 24
vs. Batista WM 23
vs. HHH WM 28

*****1/4*
vs. Orton WM 21

******
vs. Diesel WM 12
vs. Kane WM 14
vs. HHH WM 17
vs. Flair WM 18
vs. HHH WM 27

***1/2*
vs. Sid WM 13
vs. Henry WM 22
vs. Big Show/LORD TRAINBERT WM 19

****
vs. Kane WM 20
vs. Roberts WM 8

**1/4*
vs. Snuka WM 7

*DUD*
vs. Bundy WM 11
vs. Gonzalez WM 9
vs. Bossman WM 15

Is anyone as big of a fan of Diesel/Undertaker as much as I am? To me it was clearly the MOTN, and I actually thought Diesel was the closest to ending the streak compared to everyone else.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> HBK/Cena is the best Mania main event ever.
> 
> Yes, even better than Austin/Rock.


In your opinion. 

In my opinion, HHH/HBK/Benoit, HBK/Taker, and Taker/Edge easily beat it. 


-Mystery- said:


> Cena/Lashley is my favorite match from 2007.
> 
> Cena da gawd in 2007.


Best match from 07? Cena/Umaga Royal Rumble 2007 for me.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Seriously, 2007 was such a great year for the company. Could probably rattle off a good 20 matches off the top of my head at least ****.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> Seriously, 2007 was such a great year for the company. Could probably rattle off a good 20 matches off the top of my head at least ****.


Thought everyone on here shits all over 2007 :lol

Dunno why, even though i wasn't watching much at all during that year (self wrestling sabbatical), going back and watching alot from that year certainly reveals as you say a fair few excellent matches.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

zep81 said:


> Thought everyone on here shits all over 2007 :lol
> 
> Dunno why, even though i wasn't watching much at all during that year (self wrestling sabbatical), going back and watching alot from that year certainly reveals as you say a fair few excellent matches.


I mean, I don't remember the TV being anything overall great, but guys like Cena, Triple H, Michaels, Taker, Batista, Edge, Orton all delivered in big match situations. There's not many years in recent times that I could easily rattle off nearly 20 matches worthy of **** or more like I can with 2007.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I wish Umaga was still with us  Thought he was fucking great tbh, just loved watching him scream and tear up shit, like in that Elimination Chamber, anyone reccommend some good matches from him, excluding of course vs Cena (RR07), i have heard mixed reviews on his match with HHH.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> I wish Umaga was still with us  Thought he was fucking great tbh, just loved watching him scream and tear up shit, like in that Elimination Chamber, anyone reccommend some good matches from him, excluding of course vs Cena (RR07), i have heard mixed reviews on his match with HHH.


I always liked Umaga. Could perform some great moves for such a big guy.

As for matches, I remember a great one with Jeff Hardy from Great American Bash 07 (or 06, I think it's 07). I'll try and think up a few more. You don't see many people asking for Umaga matches often.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

zep81 said:


> I wish Umaga was still with us  Thought he was fucking great tbh, just loved watching him scream and tear up shit, like in that Elimination Chamber, anyone reccommend some good matches from him, excluding of course vs Cena (RR07), i have heard mixed reviews on his match with HHH.


His stuff with Lashley was alright and his stuff with Jeff Hardy was really good. Definitely try and find his match with Hardy from GAB 2007 and their cage match on the first Raw of 2008.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I always liked Umaga. Could perform some great moves for such a big guy.
> 
> As for matches, I remember a great one with Jeff Hardy from Great American Bash 07 (or 06, I think it's 07). I'll try and think up a few more. You don't see many people asking for Umaga matches often.





-Mystery- said:


> His stuff with Lashley was alright and his stuff with Jeff Hardy was really good. Definitely try and find his match with Hardy from GAB 2007 and their cage match on the first Raw of 2008.


:agree: Thanks guys, the Hardy PPV match was one i was trying to think of, thanks


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Umaga vs. Sheamus could've been :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Favourite WCW match is probably this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2WvfCLjbXY



WOOLCOCK said:


> Davey Boy Smith at aged 16 was better than feckin' Konnan ever was.


Davey Boy Smith on 'roids and cocaine was better than Konnan ever was.



Shepard said:


> If I'm going to hop on this ECW 2009 train like all the cool kids is there a particular point it gets good or is it just the whole year? :hmm:


Whole year. Once you lose Hardy, Bourne, and Henry, you gain Regal and Goldust.




I think I'd call Cena/Michaels the #2 Mania main event. I sure as shit don't think it's touching Rock/Austin, but can see why some think it's better. Cena/Michaels smokes the 04 3-way, Michaels/Taker, Edge/Taker, and hell, pretty much any other main event. What would my #3 be? I can't think of anything else I think is really that good. I'll watch Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Warrior sometime again I guess, but I'd actually be (pleasantly) surprised if they're better than Cena/Michaels. I'm not even someone who thinks Cena/Michaels is an amazing match or anything, I guess I just really only think a couple of Mania main events are all that good.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

All the injures, The Benoit tragedy and The Great Khali becoming World Champion is why people shit on the year 2007. Personally for me 2007 was year wrestling started going downhill. From 2004 to 2006 I loved it. 



zep81 said:


> I wish Umaga was still with us  Thought he was fucking great tbh, just loved watching him scream and tear up shit, like in that Elimination Chamber, *anyone reccommend some good matches from him, excluding of course vs Cena (RR07), i have heard mixed reviews on his match with HHH.*


Brye would probably know some good Umaga matches considering he's like Umaga's biggest fan on here, lol.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think 2007 was average. The injuries were the main part of it being bad though. Almost every main event guy picked up a knock at some point. Obviously Khali being champion was just awful. fpalm 

I agree with Nostaliga in that 2007 was the year wrestling started going really downhill.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Just got the Bret Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be DVD for $7 lol and I really enjoyed the documentary. Really cool insight from Bret Hart about his Stampede days, rise in the WWE, and his problems with Shawn Michaels and WCW. The match listing is great with the Mr. Perfect matches from Summerslam 91 and KOTR 93 and other cool gems as well like a Ricky Steamboat match from 1986. Overall, great DVD to watch.

Here are my ratings for some of the matches I watched from the DVD:

The Hart Foundation vs. The Rockers Saturday Night's Main Event 4/29/1990 ***
The Hart Foundation vs. The Nasty Boys Wrestlemania VII ***1/2
Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow 4/24/1993 ***1/2
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect KOTR 1993 ****
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart Wrestlemania X ****1/4
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart 9/29/94 ***3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As i havnt seen the event in YEARS, i was suprised to read that Umaga (then called Jamal), was in the Survivor Series 2002 match as 3-Minute Warning vs The Dudley-Boyz.

Maybe would have liked to have seen Taker/Umaga, maybe on SD.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Umaga and Taker wrestled some house show matches. I've seen a few of them on YouTube and such, but never really bothered to watch them.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> As i havnt seen the event in YEARS, i was suprised to read that Umaga (then called Jamal), was in the Survivor Series 2002 match as 3-Minute Warning vs The Dudley-Boyz.
> 
> Maybe would have liked to have seen Taker/Umaga, maybe on SD.


I remember Umaga as Jamal. 3 Minute Warning were great. Bischoff would just bring them out to do his dirty work (in 3 minutes - hence the name) and they'd pull off some great moves for big men. Very enjoyable. That SS 2002 match is pretty fun as well. The Dudleys re-united in that match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> Umaga and Taker wrestled some house show matches. I've seen a few of them on YouTube and such, but never really bothered to watch them.


Really, fuck I'll have too have a look, thx


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I've slowly been watching the Edge: Decade of Decadence DVD. The tag team ladder matches are just incredible. The ladder match between Edge/Christian and Matt/Jeff for the managerial services of Terri was super nice. Crowd ovation at the end for Edge/Christian (who lost) was cool.

Now watching TLC at WM 2000. Crowd is super hot for this. So many crazy spots during this match. Jeff's Swanton on the outside near the end is just crazy. JR being DA GAWD putting everyone over is terrific also.

Haven't watched the second disc yet, but the third disc is also nice. Taker/Edge Hell in a Cell at Summerslam, and Edge/Foley at Mania. 

Curious to hear people's thoughts on Edge/Orton for the IC title at Vengeance right after Edge returned from his neck injury. I felt like the match never really got started and just didn't really care for it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Cena/HBK Wrestlemania is getting pretty close to overrated territory imo. Cena/HHH was the better match.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

That wasn't even Triple H and Cena's best match together so no.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

HHH/Cena to me was kinda disappointing. Granted haven't seen it in ages, and only seen it once, but from what I recall it was kinda just a dick waving contest. 

HBK/Cena was cool- loved the piledriver on the steps. This match pisses me off though because at the time I really, REALLY thought HBK should have won. Still do. Even worse he taps to the godforsaken STFU. I do know however I've read a ton of times HBK was livid with how the match turned out, I guess he was pissed at Cena. What's the story behind that?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Curious to hear people's thoughts on Edge/Orton for the IC title at Vengeance right after Edge returned from his neck injury. I felt like the match never really got started and just didn't really care for it.


That's a great set. That match is good but a little long. It goes about 25 mins if I recall. There's a few too many rest holds. I think I rated it at about ***1/2.



Alim said:


> Cena/HBK Wrestlemania is getting pretty close to overrated territory imo. Cena/HHH was the better match.


A lot of people in here do like that Cena/HBK match and I like it too, but I'm not overly crazy about it. It's better than Cena/HHH though imo.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

-Mystery- said:


> That wasn't even Triple H and Cena's best match together so no.


Agreed. Night Of Champions 08 is the best Trips/Cena match. I think I even may like the Raw match before Bragging Rights 09 more than the Mania match now.

Michaels/Cena Mania & Raw 07 are better than all of them, though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Clique said:


> Agreed. Night Of Champions 08 is the best Trips/Cena match. I think I even may like the Raw match before Bragging Rights 09 more than the Mania match now.


I don't recall their Raw match. Is it any good? I think I prefer their NOC match to their 'Mania one aswell.


----------



## fivestar (Mar 13, 2013)

Clique said:


> Agreed. Night Of Champions 08 is the best Trips/Cena match. I think I even may like the Raw match before Bragging Rights 09 more than the Mania match now.
> 
> Michaels/Cena Mania & Raw 07 are better than all of them, though.


I don't know why, but their RAW encounter always did it for me more than the Wrestlemania Mainevent, partly because of Cena's horrendously bad blade job in their WM match? HOW ON EARTH was that cut on his head supposed to have happened?!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I don't recall their Raw match. Is it any good? I think I prefer their NOC match to their 'Mania one aswell.


Very good TV match:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks, Clique. I'll check that out later today or tomorrow. (Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I've slowly been watching the Edge: Decade of Decadence DVD. The tag team ladder matches are just incredible. The ladder match between Edge/Christian and Matt/Jeff for the managerial services of Terri was super nice. Crowd ovation at the end for Edge/Christian (who lost) was cool.
> 
> Now watching TLC at WM 2000. Crowd is super hot for this. So many crazy spots during this match. Jeff's Swanton on the outside near the end is just crazy. JR being DA GAWD putting everyone over is terrific also.
> 
> ...


I've been going through that DVD too with this little Edge project I'm on at atm. I'm not sure how often you come to this thread, but I've been reviewing many of the Edge matches I've watched, in case you might be interested. 

I watched Orton/Edge from Vengeance my review: 


Nostalgia said:


> Starting on my Edge matches now.
> 
> First match: Edge vs Randy Orton - IC Title match - Vengeance 2004.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Cheers for those links Clique, haven't seen this!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/HHH:

WM22- ***
NOC 08- ****
First Raw match- **
Second Raw match- ****

They also had one in 2010 I think, but I barely remember the match itself at all.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I've been going through that DVD too with this little Edge project I'm on at atm. I'm not sure how often you come to this thread, but I've been reviewing many of the Edge matches I've watched, in case you might be interested.
> 
> I watched Orton/Edge from Vengeance my review:


I try to get in here a good bit, but sometimes I get lazy and skip about 5-10 pages at a time, after reading 5-10. 

Good review of Edge/Orton. I remember the crowd being behind him early, but Orton being such a good heel blew them off. Also nice that the commentators acknowledged the crowd reaction for him. Today they would have either ignored it or put some stupid spin it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I absolutely love that Triple H/Cena TV match from '09. (Y)

**** for me.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Cena Hunter at wm22 is a fucking abortion... Ok maybe not that bad but Definetly bottom 5 worst wwe title matches in wm history... 

Some of their other contests are decent to really good from what I remember...

Their work in the mania match wasn't deserving of the brilliant crowd that made it seem like a passable match. 

I just put myself through watching it again not to long ago after watching it live and it held up in terms of how poorly I remembered it...

Worst: 

HHH/Orton 
HHH/Cena 
Luger/Yoko 
Miz/Cena
Bundy/Hogan or Hart/Yoko whatever


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

zep81 said:


> I wish Umaga was still with us  Thought he was fucking great tbh, just loved watching him scream and tear up shit, like in that Elimination Chamber, anyone reccommend some good matches from him, excluding of course vs Cena (RR07), i have heard mixed reviews on his match with HHH.


vs Cena (NYR '07)
vs Jeff (GAB '07)
vs Kane (Raw '06)
vs JBL vs Jericho vs HBK vs Jeff vs HHH (NWO '08)
vs HBK (Raw '06)
vs Jericho (Raw '08)
vs Jeff (Raw '08)(there's actually a couple)
vs CM Punk (JD '09)
vs CM Punk (SD '09)

Sorry if some of the dates aren't very specific. There's some more too that I'd need to look up.



Nostalgia said:


> Brye would probably know some good Umaga matches considering he's like Umaga's biggest fan on here, lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Just started downloading a Blitzkrieg pack off of XWT. :mark::mark::mark:
> 
> Blitzkriegamania is gonna' run wild over this thread. The guy was fun as hell and deserves a lot more love from everybody.


:mark: :mark: :mark:



Srdjan99 said:


> Which was your favorite WCW Match? Mine definetely Sting/Foley from Beach Blast 92'


Midnight Express vs The Southern Boys from GAB '90.

if not Regal vs Finlay from Uncensored '96.

A few more topics worth hitting:

~ Cena/Michaels rapes Cena/HHH from WrestleMania. No contest.

~ Cena/HHH had a great match at NOC. Rest are whatever. Think the England RAW match is good. One before Bragging Rights is an exact carbon copy. Not a fan just b/c of that.

~ MOTY in 2007 is Cena vs Umaga

~ Orton vs Edge Vengeance 2004 = ****1/2. Excellent match.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Tim Legend said:


> Cena Hunter at wm22 is a fucking abortion... Ok maybe not that bad but Definetly bottom 5 worst wwe title matches in wm history...
> 
> Some of their other contests are decent to really good from what I remember...
> 
> ...


HHH/Orton
HHH/Batista
HHH/Jericho
Rock/HHH/Foley/Show
Rock/Austin I
Austin/HBK 
Miz/Cena
Sid/Taker
Bret/HBK

Are all worse and that's not counting some of the shit from the first ~10 WMs


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Pierre McDunk said:


> vs Cena (NYR '07)
> vs Jeff (GAB '07)
> vs Kane (Raw '06)
> vs JBL vs Jericho vs HBK vs Jeff vs HHH (NWO '08)
> ...


Good list. I will check out the Raw matches against HBK and Jericho as I haven't seen the HBK one and the Jericho one only once. Thanks. (Y)

Those CM Punk matches are good too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Umaga vs CM Punk damn near stole the show from Judgment Day 2009. Torn between which I liked more - that or Cena vs Show.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Their strap match wasn't half bad either.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Going to watch Cena/HBK Mania tomorrow along with some other HBK stuff. I've never been fond of that match though. I just never dug it I suppose. Who knows, maybe that will all change in the morning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Strap was solid. Only viewed Extreme Rules 2009 once outside of the excellent Jericho/Mysterio match. So, perhaps it can come off stronger in a second viewing. Smackdown rematch before Extreme Rules was quite strong too. Fit the mold of awesome 2009 work.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Alim said:


> HHH/Orton
> HHH/Batista
> HHH/Jericho
> Rock/HHH/Foley/Show
> ...


Thats almost blasphemous to put those two on the same level of that pile of dung....The others I didn't list...I can't argue them only because I haven't seen em recently enough to have a valid stance...

What I do know is the finishing stretch from Hunter-Batista was more enjoyable then the entire 22 minutes of Cena and Trips


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Crowd makes Cena/Trips Mania just electric and also Trip's reactions and mannerisms.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match is so basic though. Not much to it outside of a "hot crowd". I want more. I want quality work inside the ring. Just like Cena vs Van Dam from ONS '06 sucks too. What an atmosphere, but such a crap 20 minute squash tbhayley.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Tim Legend said:


> Thats almost blasphemous to put those two on the same level of that pile of dung....The others I didn't list...I can't argue them only because I haven't seen em recently enough to have a valid stance...


To be fair, Rock vs Austin at WrestleMania 15 was pretty bad. Way overbooked. There's a reason why their match at Backlash 1999 gets talked about more than their first WrestleMania match.

You do have a point with Austin/Michaels though. I didn't find that match to be bad at all.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Yeah, I enjoyed both those Austin matches too.

The fact that HBK is evidently in pain through out the whole match yet manages to pull off some of the things he did was pretty impressive, start of a new era, love the finish too with the SCM and Stunner. As for Rock/Austin, I think it's very underrated. It's not on the level of 17 or 19 but it's certainly not a bad match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can't believe I wasn't watching wrestling during the Punk/Umaga feud. 

And it may not be a match but Umaga has that crazy segment where he tosses around Steve-O and Pontius.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I can't believe I wasn't watching wrestling during the Punk/Umaga feud.
> 
> And it may not be a match but Umaga has that crazy segment where he tosses around Steve-O and Pontius.


Lol at Steve-O being on Raw. That 'guest host' period was awful. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was going to be a match for Summerslam 2007, Brye. :lol

Curious to go back and see the Intercontinental Championship match between Jericho & Umaga. It got 14:55 w/commercial break. So that's about over 10 minutes shown. Could be a damn good gem actually. I only recall the finish. Rest is a complete and utter blur.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Match is so basic though. Not much to it outside of a "hot crowd". I want more. I want quality work inside the ring. Just like Cena vs Van Dam from ONS '06 sucks too. What an atmosphere, but such a crap 20 minute squash tbhayley.


Right. 

Yeah the crowd gets 90 percent of the credit, if you watch what they're reacting to...it's shit 

To me crowd noise can only help a match but it shouldnt be the main reason why it's considered good....

edit: after watching Austin Rock 1... It wasn't a classic by any means an I know AE style brawls are frowned upon but it's at least fun, I can't say the same for cena haitch


----------



## fivestar (Mar 13, 2013)

Tim Legend said:


> Right.
> 
> Yeah the crowd gets 90 percent of the credit, if you watch what they're reacting to...it's shit
> 
> To me crowd noise can only help a match but it shouldnt be the main reason why it's considered good....


The crowd CAN but SHOULDN'T be the one to make or break a match. For example Goldberg vs Lesnar (WM XX) put on a stinker of a match and THEN people hated on them and rightfully so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It works on occasion. Not every single time though. Hogan vs Rock for example worked. Action wasn't exactly "omg" worthy, but it fit in well with the absolutely electric atmosphere to combine into making a great match. Cena vs HHH did not, imo. To me the WrestleMania 22 match shows just how overrated Triple H's "skills" are. Guy isn't this mega effective ring general at all. Look at how many of his WrestleMania main events kind of suck.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't care what anyone says, John Cena vs Batista at Wrestlemania XXVI is Hogan/Warrior levels of epicness. It's one of the greatest Mania matches of all time imo. 

Only gripe, Cena and Baista could never hit that Batista catching Cena into the Batista bomb right


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh god no it isn't.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh god no it isn't.


Haha, whatever 

Btw, I saw you discussing JD '09 a couple pages back, was it that good? I don't recall it much but is that the PPV where Flair returned out of nowhere or am i confusing with something else.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cena/Batista from WM 26 is like ****1/2* for me. Not great at all and I was actually underwhelmed after watching it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't care what anyone says, John Cena vs Batista at Wrestlemania XXVI is Hogan/Warrior levels of epicness. It's one of the greatest Mania matches of all time imo.
> 
> Only gripe, Cena and Baista could never hit that Batista catching Cena into the Batista bomb right


Meh, I found their Summerslam 2008 match to be better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair was in the mix of the Orton vs Batista program. So he was around at the time.

It's not bad. In fact I wouldn't slate any match to be "bad". Some were nothing special and then some are vastly underrated or forgotten.

Punker vs Umaga ~ ***3/4
Christian vs Swagger ~ **1/2 _(not NEARLY as good as their other 2009 matches)_
Morrison vs Shelton ~ **
Jericho vs Mysterio ~ **** _(perhaps I'm bigger on this than most. Universally liked no matter what.)_
Orton vs Batista ~ **
Cena vs Show ~ ***3/4 _(the hate this great match brings is baffling)_
Edge vs Hardy ~ ***

All in all it averaged out well. No stinkers is the big plus. Chicago crowds tend to rule too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

That's when Hardy won the WWe title for the first time right? That was an awesome night.

I really don't recall that card at all. I'm going to check out Punk/Umaga (vaguely remember this one), Cena/Show and Jericho/Mysterio.

As for Jericho/Mysterio their best encounter imo is The Bash. I know some people prefer their Extreme Rules match over it but I think The Bash is the one that is universally acclaimed. I'd go as far as to call the match a sleeper hit honestly. It's not that I wasn't expecting it to be good, I wasn't expecting it to be that damn great!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> That's when Hardy won the WWe title for the first time right? That was an awesome night.
> 
> I really don't recall that card at all. I'm going to check out Punk/Umaga (vaguely remember this one), Cena/Show and Jericho/Mysterio.
> 
> As for Jericho/Mysterio their best encounter imo is The Bash. I know some people prefer their Extreme Rules match over it but I think The Bash is the one that is universally acclaimed. I'd go as far as to call the match a sleeper hit honestly. It's not that I wasn't expecting it to be good, I wasn't expecting it to be that damn great!


No, that was Armageddon 2008. Edge vs Hardy was for the World Championship on this PPV.

The Bash was my favorite of their 2009 series too. All were so excellent you can't go wrong with which one you pick.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Armageddon 2009 doesn't exist :gaga.

Armageddon 2008 is a dark, dark moment in wrestling history that made me stop consistently watching for a few years :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Slip of the finger. Perhaps Armageddon 2009 would have been better to have considering TLC '09 is a terrible event.

If you mean Jeff winning the championship then I don't get that. Made that show well worth watching. Punk vs Mysterio & Cena vs Jericho too. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I loved Jeff as WWE and World Heavuweight champion. He damn well deserved it. There's no way you could be that damn charismatic for that damn long and not with a damn world title!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes, I have *Choke2Death* levels of hate for Jeff and felt thrilled when I found out he wasn't coming back to the WWE any time soon .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Yes, I have *Choke2Death* levels of hate for Jeff and felt thrilled when I found out he wasn't coming back to the WWE any time soon .


It's not Pyro levels of hate for Jeff though, is it? His hate for Jeff Hardy is just hilarious. :lol

Anyway I didn't like Jeff as Champion, poor mic worker, horrible look, average matches. Jeff was best at stealing the show in TLC matches, not a main event role.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell of a way to end 2008. All those close calls only to get the championship. Didn't think it would ever happen. Glad it did. Too bad a few months later the crushing status quo would return and Triple H vs Orton at WM would happen.

EDIT ~ You must not have seen Jeff in matches over the last few years then. One of the best babyfaces out there.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Since when did being weird and drug addled = charisma

I never figured out how people have associated The word "Charasmatic" with :jeff 

That aside I agree he deserved that title run for his willingness to kill himself and the fact he was massively over at the time..


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> It's not Pyro levels of hate for Jeff though, is it? His hate for Jeff Hardy is just hilarious. :lol
> 
> Anyway I didn't like Jeff as Champion, poor mic worker, horrible look, average matches. Jeff was best at stealing the show in TLC matches, not a main event role.


Hey, at least he gave us that feud and match with Punk on his way out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least Jeff could make a Ladder match his x-factor match. Unlike Edge. Who gets associated with it and has honestly done nothing of major note with the gimmick for a bulk of his career.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

At least Edge was always a true professional and never showed up to events drugged up and no-showed shows. 

fpalm








sharkboy22 said:


> Hey, at least he gave us that feud and match with Punk on his way out.


The Punk/Hardy feud was good. First time I actually started to notice Punk and became a fan of him. All of Jeff's drug problems is another reason I don't like him.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> At least Jeff could make a Ladder match his x-factor match. Unlike Edge. Who gets associated with it and has honestly done nothing of major note with the gimmick for a bulk of his career.




Yea ok, he only had the best spear of all time off a Ladder. SMH!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Here's a fucked up statistic ;

Excluding MITB matches, The WWE has aired ONE MORE ladder match than TNA (38 to TNA's 37). Fucking gimmick overkill much :lol ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Tim Legend said:


> Since when did being weird and drug addled = charisma
> 
> I never figured out how people have associated The word "Charasmatic" with :jeff
> 
> That aside I agree he deserved that title run for his willingness to kill himself and the fact he was massively over at the time..


Charisma isn't only mic skills you know. Jeff was a rare case. He had no mic skills whatsoever but he had shitload of personality where it just overshadowed his lack of mic skills. There's a reason why he went places and Matt didn't. Matt didn't have the charisma in his ring. Jeff had it in his attire, his mannerisms and his offense. That and he was a good seller. One of my favourite matches of all time is his match with Taker on RAW for the Undisputed title in that Ladder match. Jeff is an amazing babyface. The way he would just sell. Everytime he climbed that ladder he just made it look so convincing that he was hurting so you were forced to cheer him on hoping he'd grab the title. And as ironic as it sounds, I thought his post-match promo was some untapped promo potential.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Yea ok, he only had the best spear of all time off a Ladder. SMH!


:lmao

what significace does that bring? If anything it only proves Edge got over with a spot as his career defining moment - IE only good for spots. A comment like this doesn't pay him any compliments.

Using Jeff's drugs against him means nothing. Guy showed up drugged up. K. So has TONS of wrestlers. Doesn't mean when Jeff is clean he hasn't brought his game. Useless comparison. The hate towards the Hardy's these days make zero sense. Between Jeff's underrated babyface work or Matt's impeccable selling it's getting quite unusual. How does hate blind people to the facts?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I also think Jeff Hardy probably has the worst look of any main-eventer I've seen. To look like this when you represent the the company as the top champion is just ridiculous:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c face paint can't get over?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

It's not just the facepaint, it's the tacky, unkept hair, it's the street clothes covering up his shitty body. Has he even worn wrestling gear in his life? Jeff's drug problems were worst than most, and any average wrestler who had those problems would of been fired, but because Jeff is a cash cow in TNA with his popularity (which is something I can't understand) and merchandise, they not only keep in the company, but they give him World Title after World Title. He's one of the main reasons I don't watch TNA anymore.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Sharkboy:


No doubt. Jeff has that certain "you don't know what" about him but he is one of those guys who got over despite his glaring deficiencies because he has a look/appeal that sets him apart, a whacky style that no one can/is willing to duplicate, and a willingness to destroy his body for everyone's amusement. None of those things earn the title of "charismatic." In a way that makes any sense anyhow.

Enigma...sure.. He's mysterious... Charasmatic... Bah...

You want charisma... Look up Matt Hardy V1... :matt


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> It's not just the facepaint, it's the tacky, unkept hair, it's the street clothes covering up his shitty body. Jeff's drug problems were worst than most, and any average wrestler who had those problems would of been fired, but because Jeff is a cash cow in TNA with his popularity (which is something I can't understand) and merchandise, they not only keep in the company, but they give him World Title after World Title. He's one of the main reasons I don't watch TNA anymore.


Oh you don't watch? Yeah. Watch and then come back at me with Jeff comments b/c he's easily one of the most consistent guys working today. If anyone can lead the company as the "top face" it is him. TNA are using their brains here.

don't even know what to say about the shitty body comment.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> At least Edge was always a true professional and never showed up to events drugged up and no-showed shows.
> 
> fpalm


 how he didn't get fired for this just amazes me. You're in a main event and your job is to wrestle but he shows up looking drugged up...


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao
> 
> what significace does that bring? If anything it only proves Edge got over with a spot as his career defining moment - IE only good for spots. A comment like this doesn't pay him any compliments.
> 
> Using Jeff's drugs against him means nothing. Guy showed up drugged up. K. So has TONS of wrestlers. Doesn't mean when Jeff is clean he hasn't brought his game. Useless comparison. The hate towards the Hardy's these days make zero sense. Between Jeff's underrated babyface work or Matt's impeccable selling it's getting quite unusual. How does hate blind people to the facts?




You obviously haven't seen his performance at WM 21 too. Or his tlc match with cena at unforgiven 06. You obviously just aren't any fan of edge.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like Edge. WrestleMania 21 he wasn't close to being the star. Shelton was in terms of the high spots & Benoit was overall. Easy to see.

Unforgiven '06 match isn't good. Cena & Edge had a much, much better match the month prior at Summerslam.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> b/c face paint can't get over?


:lmao

I oddly enough enjoyed Jeff Hardy's title reign, I was always a Hardy fan as a kid but I didn't think he could main event as I got over but WWE's lack of establish main eventers plus Hardy being over gave him a great opportunity.

I see I missed the Umaga discussion  

Cena/Umaga @ RR is one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh you don't watch? Yeah. Watch and then come back at me with Jeff comments b/c he's easily one of the most consistent guys working today. If anyone can lead the company as the "top face" it is him. TNA are using their brains here.
> 
> don't even know what to say about the shitty body comment.


Well you know I don't. Occasionally when I'm bored and there's nothing else is on, I'll check out TNA to see what's happening, but I don't watch the show on a regular basis anymore. 

I'd like TNA to actually build new stars instead of relying on ex-WWE guys. 

The body comment is a perfect criticism. He's obviously always covered up his body because he doesn't have a good physique, and in wrestling having a good look is important. Presentation is a big part of wrestling, it's about selling large-than-life characters to you and Jeff was never one of those. For years he's got buy on having a average joe body while other guys were busting their asses in the gym only to go nowhere. So Jeff could not only do drugs and still get pushed, he didn't have to work out to keep a good body either like every other wrestler does, must be good to be him...


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I like Edge. WrestleMania 21 he wasn't close to being the star. Shelton was in terms of the high spots & Benoit was overall. Easy to see.
> 
> Unforgiven '06 match isn't good. Cena & Edge had a much, much better match the month prior at Summerslam.




Lmao not good? Forget it. Your not worth arguing with.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Umaga can always be discussed. Damn, the only Umaga vs Jericho match on youtube is the one from 2007. Not 2008.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Yeah Edge is pretty awesome but I'm hard pressed to throw up even a Edge top 5 non gimmick match list. But double goes for Jeffry..

He clearly excelled in Gimmick matches but big deal... 

And I'll take Edge vs Matt in the Cage over any Jeff singles match ever...


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

TNA is just too second rate for me to get into. It doesn't help that they stopped pushing guys like AJ Styles and Samoa Joe.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Tim Legend said:


> Sharkboy:
> 
> 
> No doubt. Jeff has that certain "you don't know what" about him but he is one of those guys who got over despite his glaring deficiencies because he has a look/appeal that sets him apart, a whacky style that no one can/is willing to duplicate, and a willingness to destroy his body for everyone's amusement. None of those things earn the title of "charismatic." In a way that makes any sense anyhow.
> ...


You see the thinh about charisma, is that it's an intangible. Words don't do it justice. You just know charisma when you see it and when I see Jeff, i see a charismatic individual. His whackyness, his "what the fuck is he about to do" it's all charisma imo. Why? Because it's what attracts the fans to him. I mean, that's the essence of charisma. Getting people attracted to you. It's the reason why a guy like Jim Jones could have led so many thousands of people. He attracted people with whatever the hell his charisma was.The way Jeff's come out to the ring, the way he moved in the ring, it's all charisma if you ask me.

But enough about Jeff, let's talk about Matt. Hayley, I would have agreed with you on Matt's impreccable selling but ummm he worked a match in a certain company against a certain someone where his selling and psychology was pretty much non-existent. I mean where was the Matt Hardy that faced Finlay in '06? I could use that Matt. Not the Matt Hardy who did whatever it was with Adam Cole.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Tim Legend said:


> Yeah Edge is pretty awesome but I'm hard pressed to throw up even a Edge top 5 non gimmick match list. But double goes for Jeffry..
> 
> He clearly excelled in Gimmick matches but big deal...
> 
> And I'll take Edge vs Matt in the Cage over any Jeff singles match ever...




Edge/Taker WM 24 was fucking great.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Umaga can always be discussed. Damn, the only Umaga vs Jericho match on youtube is the one from 2007. Not 2008.


Damn I don't remember there match, time to check some torrent sites.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Well you know I don't. Occasionally when I'm bored and there's nothing else is on, I'll check out TNA to see what's happening, but I don't watch the show on a regular basis anymore.
> 
> I'd like TNA to actually build stars instead of relying on ex-WWE guys.
> 
> The body comment is a perfect criticism. He's obviously always covered up his body because he doesn't have a good physique, and in wrestling having a good look is important. Presentation is a big part of wrestling, it's about selling large-than-life characters to you and Jeff was never one of those. For years he's got buy on having a average joe body while other guys were busting their asses in the gym only to go nowhere. So Jeff could not only do drugs and still get pushed, he didn't have to work out to keep a good body either like every other wrestler does, must be good to be him...


TNA has done a good job in making these ex-WWE guys have new life in them though. Guys like Bully & Hardy are much more refreshing than where the championship picture was a few years ago. Then you have Roode, Aries, Daniels, and others available to be in the mix too. It's not bad. Unless Matt Morgan gets bumped in. Then fuck it all.

Awful mentality. Maybe in Vince's eyes that works. By that logic CM Punk shouldn't be working matches with Bryan Danielson in main events b/c their bodies aren't "amazing". Or Samoa Joe can never be grouped as being an amazing wrestler b/c he's fat. I'll NEVER understand this bogus idea for the life of me.



xdoomsayerx said:


> Lmao not good? Forget it. Your not worth arguing with.


You prove yourself so well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I stopped watching TNA once EV 2.0 came along. I was really sipping on the Kool Aid prior to that but I had enough of their BS at that time. 

But this is the WWE section. But speaking of Samoa Joe, does anyone think that Joe would have gotten over in WWE? I was trying to find his match with Necro Butcher from IWA-MS and it was showing good until about 5 minutes where it started to just go batshit crazy. I'm still searching high and low for the match. Anyway, I loved how Joe just threw the ref out the ring at the start and it got me wondering, if Joe could have gotten over in WWE. And AJ Styles as well. AJ was basically the reason why I started watching TNA. Always liked him. Not so sure how he would fair in WWE though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge/Taker was probably Edge's best single, non-gimmick match. Edge was clearly better in gimmick matches and there's nothing wrong with that. His TLC matches at WM 16 and WM 17, his cage match with Matt Hardy, his street fights with HBK, his hardcore match with Mick Foley, TLC with Cena, HIAC with The Undertaker etc - being some of Edge's best gimmick matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> You see the thinh about charisma, is that it's an intangible. Words don't do it justice. You just know charisma when you see it and when I see Jeff, i see a charismatic individual. His whackyness, his "what the fuck is he about to do" it's all charisma imo. Why? Because it's what attracts the fans to him. I mean, that's the essence of charisma. Getting people attracted to you. It's the reason why a guy like Jim Jones could have led so many thousands of people. He attracted people with whatever the hell his charisma was.The way Jeff's come out to the ring, the way he moved in the ring, it's all charisma if you ask me.
> 
> But enough about Jeff, let's talk about Matt. Hayley, I would have agreed with you on Matt's impreccable selling but ummm he worked a match in a certain company against a certain someone where his selling and psychology was pretty much non-existent. I mean where was the Matt Hardy that faced Finlay in '06? I could use that Matt. Not the Matt Hardy who did whatever it was with Adam Cole.


Match vs Cole was good. Not great or a classic, but good. Story of the match wasn't meant to see Matt come from behind like so many of his matches were vs Finlay or vs Edge. Matt was the cocky veteran who was taking Cole lightly the entire time.

Now you didn't like Joe vs Necro? C'mon dude.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I second the recommendation of Judgment Day 2009. There weren't any big spectacular classics on this card, but almost every match was solid. The crowd was also very hot all night, which is to be expected considering that the PPV occurred in the GOAT city.

Punk vs Umaga - ***3/4
Christian vs Swagger - ***1/2
Morrison vs Shelton - ***1/2
Jericho vs Mysterio - ****
Orton vs Batista - **1/2
Cena vs Show - **3/4
Edge vs Hardy - ***3/4


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Samoa Joe would have definitely gotten over in the WWE. Not only is he an agile big man, he can talk and has natural charisma in the ring. It also helps being good friends with guys like John Cena and CM Punk.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Top 5 non gimmick matches for edge. 

Vs taker WM 24

Vs cena SS 06

Vs Orton vengeance 04

Vs Del Rio WM 27. (very underrated)

vs Batista vengeance 07


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Alim said:


> Samoa Joe would have definitely gotten over in the WWE. Not only is he an agile big man, he can talk and has natural charisma in the ring. It also helps being good friends with guys like John Cena and CM Punk.


And Foley. Foley tried repeatedly to convince Vince to sign Joe, but no go. Believe it had something to do with his style & look. We'll always have the match(or matches?) on the C list show vs Essa Rios.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

"One man's Mannerisms and Schtick is another mans charisma" is where I'll leave it I suppose... It just comes down to how you define it... My definition must be more in the traditional sense in which I consider such things as Attitude, Persona, promo content and delivery, expressions... Etc.. I must be a old fogey... 

But you did a noble job in explaining how Jeff's aura can be construed as Charisma...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If Samoa Joe were to have gone to the WWE back in 2005-2006, I honestly believe that he would have been the next mega-star. The man has that special "ass-kicker" aura surrounding him similar to Lesnar and Goldberg. In addition, he could work with almost any kind of wrestler under any style of match. It's a damn shame that he is now out of shape because Joe is the one guy that I would have loved to see in a WWE main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It is charisma. He has an x-factor about him that makes fans get so engrossed into his work. To deny it would be blind. Hate the guy all you want. That's cool. He's got charisma. And no, it doesn't mean the same as mic skills.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There's nothing wrong with being known as a great gimmick match worker. hey, if that's your specialty then that's your specialty. There's some people who can't work gimmick matches properly. Not everyone has to be the master of 1000 holds. Besides, it's a plus if you can work gimmick matches exceptionally well. It means that you can deliver one hell of a blow off match for a feud. After all, most feuds end with some sort of gimmick match attached to it.

As far as Edge's best singles matches go, I agree with most people that he really is an average-above average worker in regular matches where there's no stipulation attached to it but he's had some good singles matches over the years. Vs Taker WM 24 and vs Jericho WM 26 easily come to mind. Also, there's a match he had with Benoit in '07 that everyone raves about. Oh and Orton in '07 as well. His tag days with Mysterio as well produced some good quality matches.

But yeah, outside of Falls Count Anywhere, Street Fight, Steel Cage, Last Man Standing, Hell In A Cell and Ladder matches, Edge hasn't really been known as a guy to deliver great grappling bouts. But since we're discussing Edge as a great gimmick match worker why don't we list some of his best gimmick matches.

Edge/Angle Steel Cage SD 2002
Edge/Hardy Steel Cage Unforgiven 2005
Edge/Benoit Last Man Standing Backlash 2005
Edge/Foley WM 22
Edge/Taker HIAC SS 2008 (Top 5 HIAC match)
Edge/Cena LMS Extreme Rules 2009

And of course anything involving a ladder.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

It really is a shame how far Joe has fallen. To think this guy was a straight up MACHINE in 2005-2008ish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So glad you listed the LMS vs Benoit over the Cena one. Edge vs Cena from Backlash didn't hold up well. Felt very plodding and went en route of Cena vs Orton where it tried so hard to be epic.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Match vs Cole was good. Not great or a classic, but good. Story of the match wasn't meant to see Matt come from behind like so many of his matches were vs Finlay or vs Edge. Matt was the cocky veteran who was taking Cole lightly the entire time.
> 
> Now you didn't like Joe vs Necro? C'mon dude.


WTF? I never said that! I said I enjoyed the hell out of the first five minutes! Come on man, you're making me look even more worse of a poster than I already am. I'm still looking for the rest of the match. 

Oh and Foley vs Joe Anything Goes would have been epic!

EDIT: OH when I said it went batshit crazy I meant the actual video  It started to like freeze and shit. lol miscommunication on my part


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Edge/Foley/Lita vs. Dream/Funk/Beulah needs more love


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> WTF? I never said that! I said I enjoyed the hell out of the first five minutes! Come on man, you're making me look even more worse of a poster than I already am. I'm still looking for the rest of the match.
> 
> Oh and Foley vs Joe Anything Goes would have been epic!
> 
> EDIT: OH when I said it went batshit crazy I meant the actual video  It started to like freeze and shit. lol miscommunication on my part


Ahhh. I got ya. That match will be loved by anyone who views it. Legit probably the most insane "fight" ever seen.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> There's nothing wrong with being known as a great gimmick match worker. hey, if that's your specialty then that's your specialty. There's some people who can't work gimmick matches properly. Not everyone has to be the master of 1000 holds. Besides, it's a plus if you can work gimmick matches exceptionally well. It means that you can deliver one hell of a blow off match for a feud. After all, most feuds end with some sort of gimmick match attached to it.
> 
> As far as Edge's best singles matches go, I agree with most people that he really is an average-above average worker in regular matches where there's no stipulation attached to it but he's had some good singles matches over the years. Vs Taker WM 24 and vs Jericho WM 26 easily come to mind. Also, there's a match he had with Benoit in '07 that everyone raves about. Oh and Orton in '07 as well. His tag days with Mysterio as well produced some good quality matches.
> 
> ...




agreed, I also loved edge/hbk in that street fight on raw. A GREAT and underrated match. 


People who bash edge for only being good in gimmick matches just makes me laugh. So what? I guarantee you people pay more to see these gimmick matches instead of technical wrestling matches. It just shows the fact edge would take massive bumps to over and entertain the fans.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Not really sure how anything I said about :jeff is hateful.... 

I think he deserved/deserves his main event status and can work engaging matches given the right circumstances and participants...

I just can't for the life of me go along with him being called Charasmatic, I guess I just don't buy it...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Alim said:


> Edge/Foley/Lita vs. Dream/Funk/Beulah needs more love


Oh my God, how the hell can I forget about that? Everything was great about it. From the pre-match promo with Foley "You're right I sold out....I sold out Madison Square Garden" to the actual match. "MY EYEEEEEEEE" Was Funk selling or did he really almost lose his damn eye? If he was selling, take not ladies and gents. An 11 year old Sharkboy, really thought he lost his eye.

Oh and as for Edge's contribution....DAT PIN! lol. 

But yeah, I enjoyed that match for what it was.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Edges pin on buelah was absolute epicness!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Which is better Edge/HBK Street Fight 2005 or from 2007? It's amazing how these guys had two Street Fights take place on RAW. It's been a while since I've seen the '05 bout but I re-watched the '07 one about 2 months ago and I have it at ***3/4

And I saw someone mention Edge/Orton Vengeance '04. I haven't seen it in about 3 years but from what I remember I didn't think much of it other than "a match that went 30 minutes" I know it gets alot of love though. I should give it a watch some time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Edge isn't really an overly special worker though. He's had some great matches - gimmick or non-gimmicks - but collectively he's more WWE enhanced than anything else. Not an insult, only that's how some things go. It's like Triple H. You're programmed to think they're the tops when there are guys of lesser popularity in some circles who clearly are much, much stronger.

How many people think Haku is better than Edge? Not many if you ask such a casual brigade of fans. Doesn't make it factual. Only a product of the environment these days.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Which is better Edge/HBK Street Fight 2005 or from 2007? It's amazing how these guys had two Street Fights take place on RAW. It's been a while since I've seen the '05 bout but I re-watched the '07 one about 2 months ago and I have it at ***3/4
> 
> And I saw someone mention Edge/Orton Vengeance '04. I haven't seen it in about 3 years but from what I remember I didn't think much of it other than "a match that went 30 minutes" I know it gets alot of love though. I should give it a watch some time.




I prefer the 07 one. Both guys took fucking massive bumps. 

05: ***

07: ***3/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wish I can find a link to that Edge vs Big Show match from SD in 2002 for the WWE title. Really impressive showing by Edge. A good underdog type match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Which is better Edge/HBK Street Fight 2005 or from 2007? It's amazing how these guys had two Street Fights take place on RAW. It's been a while since I've seen the '05 bout but I re-watched the '07 one about 2 months ago and I have it at ***3/4
> 
> And I saw someone mention Edge/Orton Vengeance '04. I haven't seen it in about 3 years but from what I remember I didn't think much of it other than "a match that went 30 minutes" I know it gets alot of love though. I should give it a watch some time.


2005 match is a lot better.

Edge vs Matt Hardy Street Fight from RAW in 2005 is a forgotten gem among Edge's better matches. Gimmick wasn't the point here - the brilliant chemistry vs Hardy was. Even with the non-finish it is top notch, imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

CODY

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5...1-2-raw-14-0_sport?search_algo=2#.UUFAOxeHuSo

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x567ya_chris-jericho-vs-umaga-2-2-raw-4-14_sport#.UUFAYBeHuSo

Umaga/Jericho match.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...s-mock-the-new-age-outlaws_sport#.UUFHERyePoI

:sandow2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> CODY
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5...1-2-raw-14-0_sport?search_algo=2#.UUFAOxeHuSo
> 
> ...


:mark:

That is so going to be viewed tonight.

Rhodes Scholars promo on NAO was AWESOME. Your welcome. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wow. So I'm watching Cena/Batista I Quit. I'm at the point where Batista does a running powerslam off one announce table into the other. However the hell it happened, Cena gets busted open and what happens? The official come running down. 

Honestly, it really was a turn off. I-Quit. Anything goes. The whole point of the match is to beat your opponent so badly that he is forced to say "I-Quit" So you bust your opponent open and what happens? The doctors come to tend to him. Kind of takes away from the whole point of the match now doesn't it? Why not tend to him every time he goes through a table while you're at it. Fucking morons.

I don't mind WWE's no blading policy but if accidental blood happens, leave it to fuck alone!

Good job by Batista though for throwing Cena into the crowd to get them hyped back up after having all the momentum fucked with for a while.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I hate it when they do that as well. It ruined Lesnar/Cena for me. Still a great match, but it's not 5 stars. Lesnar is a monster. Cena is a fighter. It's an Extreme Rules match. Let them fight god damnit.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Edge's 5 Greatest Singles Matches:

VS. Randy Orton - RAW 4/30/2007
VS. Undertaker - WM24
VS. Kurt Angle - JD 2002
VS. HBK - RR 2005
VS. Test - Survivor Series 2001


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well I assume it's that time when posting in this section reaches a halt so here's the topic for tomrrow that I'd like to start. Your list if 5 star PPV events. Not matches, events. Mine:

Summerslam 2002
Wrestlemania 24
Money In The Bank 2011
Extreme Rules 2012

Of course, I haven't seen every PPV so it'd be nice to see what others think so I can, hopefully, add more to my list.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just re-watched an episode of Smackdown 1/2/03. What a fun episode that was. Some really good matches like Eddie Guerrero vs Billy Kidman and Team Angle vs Edge & Chris Benoit. It also consisted of Brock Lesnar pretty much destroying both Matt Hardy and Shannon Moore to end the show. Let's not forget the wedding segment between Al Wilson and Dawn Marie. :lol

God, I love Smackdown in 2003.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody should go back and really dive into John Cena's evolution as a worker. I've been geeking it up big time on the guy for quite some time now and might even check out all of his PPV matches like a did with HAITCH HAITCH HAITCH last summer and ranked the shit out of all 153 or so.... It'd be alot of fun to do with Cena since I own mostly all of them in DVD quality (Number of John Cena PPV matches at this point : 113. Number of John Cena PPV matches I DON'T own at this point : 13), and if I plan on doing it I'll just order the rest of the DVDs so I could watch them in perfect quality.

This is probably how I'll spend my April-May-June down time where I don't need to work because I still have lots of money left, yet I don't have classes. My favorite time of the year besides Christmas of course. I'll probably do it to celebrate him ending The Roid's reign of terror, steroids, and shitty matches and promos after Wrestlemania.

:cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Wow. So I'm watching Cena/Batista I Quit. I'm at the point where Batista does a running powerslam off one announce table into the other. However the hell it happened, Cena gets busted open and what happens? The official come running down.
> 
> Honestly, it really was a turn off. I-Quit. Anything goes. The whole point of the match is to beat your opponent so badly that he is forced to say "I-Quit" So you bust your opponent open and what happens? The doctors come to tend to him. Kind of takes away from the whole point of the match now doesn't it? Why not tend to him every time he goes through a table while you're at it. Fucking morons.
> 
> ...


Small potatoes with that aspect on the show. Punk vs Mysterio had the same thing happen to it. The halt was worse in that match. Irony being Punk vs Mysterio ended up being great regardless and Cena vs Batista was their weakest match in their series. I Quit match stinks.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

GOLDBERG DID THE UNTHINKABLE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HE REFUSED TO FOLLOW THE SCRIPT


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i :lmao'd so hard at the commontators after Goldberg walked out. Talk about breaking kayfabe.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So damn bad. Why talk about the planned finish like that ON THE AIR? What were fans supposed to do when Booker vs Jarrett came on following it: forget the things said and go back into fantasy land? Idiots.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Five Star Events:

Wrestlemania X7
Backlash 2000
Fully Loaded 2000
Summerslam 2002
Survivor Series 2002
WM 19
Vengeance 2003
Backlash 2004
Money in the Bank 2011
Extreme Rules 2012
Great American Bash 1989
Spring Stampede 1994


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> So damn bad. Why talk about the planned finish like that ON THE AIR? What were fans supposed to do when Booker vs Jarrett came on following it: forget the things said and go back into fantasy land? Idiots.


That's one of the worst storyline ideas I've ever seen in my life. :lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Lmao not good? Forget it. Your not worth arguing with.


Jesus wept, SUBJECTIVITY. There is no such example of an objective 'great' match. Every match can and will vary from person to person based on that individuals' personal taste in what they look for in a wrestling match, be that athleticism & spots, storytelling, intricate little details that tie into the overall context, a great selling performance, yadda yadda yadda.

Accept that your favourite match to another might be a terrible match, rather than dismissing the merit of another's viewpoint because it contradicts your own opinion. Neither of you is right and neither is wrong, but posts like this stunt discussion and just make it a chore for everyone to navigate a discussion which features extensive name calling and childish back and forths.

I personally don't like Cena/Edge TLC. It feels awfully reliant on choreographed and over elaborate bumps that are so obviously set-up ahead of time that it stunts the flow of the match and limits the actual hate and chaos a blood feud ender should have. Same way I loathe Edge/Taker TLC. Its a collection of contrived & extensive spots with little in between to hold the match together. Now compare both matches to a Ladder match like Sheamus/Morrison, where the build, pacing, selling and developing story in between the few and far between notable spots is incredibly strong and neither TLC match for me comes close to rivalling it.

Bear in mind I understand why a TLC match will appeal far more to others than I & I'm not blind in realising what I've just listed as the prime negatives of the match for me could very well be what you love most about it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I have decided to rate and rank all the WWE championship matches from WM18 to WM28.

1. Jericho vs. Punk - WM28 *(****1/2)*
I freakin' love this match, Everything from the psychology of Jericho pressuring Punk to hit him with a chair thus losing his title to the technical performance of both wrestlers was perfect. The ending was well rounded with Jericho and Punk trading hold finishers, It kept the crowd on the edge of their seat.

2. Cena vs. HBK - WM23 *(****1/2)*
A spectacle, no doubt. Shawn targeting Cena's leg was superb and the atmosphere was good too. The only gripe i have with this match, was Cena's no selling at the end with his superman comeback.

3. Lesnar vs. Angle - WM19 *(****1/4)*
Awesome bout between two pure-breed mat wrestlers besides a few botches here and there. This match was fantastic.

4. Cena vs. Triple H - WM22 *(****)*
Atmosphere made this match, The Chicago crowd were so in motion with this match. It was crazy and the match really signaled a defining moment for Cena.

5. Cena vs. Batista - WM26 *(***1/2)*
Very good contest between two powerhouses with flashbacks to their slightly better SS match.

6. Jericho vs. Triple H - WM18 *(***)*
Good match, Hogan/Rock overshadowed it though. I'm probably the only one but i honestly liked the chemistry between Trips and Jericho.

7. Eddie vs. Angle - WM20 *(**1/2)*
I don't really get the love for this match, It was very basic wrestling with a few high spots here and there. IMO, Their SD 2005 match blows this one out of the water.

8. Orton vs. Cena vs. Triple H - WM24 *(**1/4)*
The ending was so random and anti-climatic. Decent match, I guess but Cena should have won.

9. Orton vs. Triple H - WM25 *(**)*
Horrid way to end the event, It's bad enough that this match had to follow the likes of HBK/Taker but not putting the strap on Orton that night, was fucked up logic.

10. Cena vs. Miz - WM27 *(*1/4)*
Meh, This match was. Cena looked like he was half-assing all the way through and Miz being an average performer couldn't make it look any better.

11. Cena vs. JBL - WM21 *(*)*
Awful, Awful match and a horrible way for Cena to win his first WWE Championship.

Looking forward to see your list and ratings guys.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

My.. fucking.. GOODNESS. Why haven't I discovered this match. :mark: I saw one of their matches but definitely not this one. This is such a good match. I give it a 4 outr of 5 stars, tempted to give it 5 stars though. I have never been so invested in a FCW match tbh.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Lesnar/Angle ****1/2
HHH/Cena ****1/4
Eddie/Angle ****1/4
HBK/Cena ****
Cena/Batista ****
Y2J/Punk ***3/4
Orton/Cena/HHH ***3/4
Y2J/HHH ***
Cena/JBL **1/4
Miz/Cena *1/2
Orton/HHH *

I need to give HBK/Cena, Cena/Batista, and Y2J/Punk rewatches though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> CODY
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5...1-2-raw-14-0_sport?search_algo=2#.UUFAOxeHuSo
> 
> ...


:shock Excellent, thankyou



Pierre McDunk said:


> vs Cena (NYR '07)
> vs Jeff (GAB '07)
> vs Kane (Raw '06)
> vs JBL vs Jericho vs HBK vs Jeff vs HHH (NWO '08)
> ...


Thanks for those, i forgot about the Punk match(s) :sad:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Five Star Events:
> 
> Wrestlemania X7
> Backlash 2000
> ...


Great list. I agree wholeheartedly.

As for Wrestlingfan's 'Mania WWE title matches from 18 onwards:

HBK/Cena - *****1/4*
Lesnar/Angle - *****1/4*
Jericho/Punk - ******
Cena/HHH - ****1/2*
Eddie/Angle - ****1/2*
Cena/Batista - ****1/4*
Jericho/HHH - ****1/4*
Orton/Cena/HHH - ****1/4*
Orton/HHH - ***1/4*
Cena/JBL - **3/4*
Cena/Miz - ***

Why from WM18 onwards may I ask?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*THE UNDERTAKER VS UMAGA SMACK DOWN ARENA SANTIAGO FEBRERO 2009:*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> That's one of the worst storyline ideas I've ever seen in my life. :lmao


After a night full of Wrestle crap I just had, it made the cut. Along with the CHAMBER OF HORRORS "match" & quite the bulk from TNA's wonderful PPV franchise - Lockdown. Yikes at some of the crap I stomached atm :lmao

btw, watched Jericho vs Umaga. Solid bout. Pacing was a tad off in the early going. Once Umaga began to dictate things it found some steady ground. Used Jericho's sore jaw - b/c he got hit with Sweet Chin Music prior in the night - to his (Umaga's) advantage. Which I felt was both different & solid storytelling. Jericho cheating to win was only a continuation at the heel teasing and eventual full on turn later in the year.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Jesus wept, SUBJECTIVITY. There is no such example of an objective 'great' match. Every match can and will vary from person to person based on that individuals' personal taste in what they look for in a wrestling match, be that athleticism & spots, storytelling, intricate little details that tie into the overall context, a great selling performance, yadda yadda yadda.
> 
> Accept that your favourite match to another might be a terrible match, rather than dismissing the merit of another's viewpoint because it contradicts your own opinion. Neither of you is right and neither is wrong, but posts like this stunt discussion and just make it a chore for everyone to navigate a discussion which features extensive name calling and childish back and forths.
> 
> ...


Knowledge by WOOLCOCK. (Y)

-----------

1) Punker vs Jericho ~ ****1/2

2) Cena vs Michaels ~ ****1/4

3) Guerrero vs Angle ~ ***1/2

4) Lesnar vs Angle ~ ***1/2

5) Cena vs Orton vs Triple H ~ ***1/2

6) Jericho vs Triple H ~ ***


7) Cena vs Batista ~ **3/4

8) Cena vs Triple H ~ **1/2

9) Orton vs Triple H ~ 1/2*

10) Cena vs JBL & Cena vs Miz ~ DUD

Pretty obvious which are the two standout matches here over the last few years. Nothing touches Punk vs Jericho or Cena vs Michaels, tbhayley.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> 4) Lesnar vs Angle ~ ***1/2


Think that is the lowest i have seen that rated, was it the botch that out you off?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Think that is the lowest i have seen that rated, was it the botch that out you off?


Nah. The match is quite good and that's about it. One portion of the match comes to a complete standstill when Angle locks on a headlock and legit lays on top of Brock for about 3 minutes straight. No moving - only laying. Sucks you out of their match. Didn't help things when Angle's legs weren't even wrapped around Brock's injured mid-section like the move was originally intended for. Rest was fine. It only doesn't come close to their Summerslam or Iron Man encounters.

Fail to see how it can be considered _"great"_ when nothing about it stuck out in significant fashion to do so. Glad I watched it today to reassure myself of this. Decent enough match to follow up the brilliance that is Austin vs Rock.

I'm the same way with Benoit vs Angle from Royal Rumble 2003.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah. The match is quite good and that's about it. One portion of the match comes to a complete standstill when Angle locks on a headlock and legit lays on top of Brock for about 3 minutes straight. No moving - only laying. Sucks you out of their match. Didn't help things when Angle's legs weren't even wrapped around Brock's injured mid-section like the move was originally intended for. Rest was fine. It only doesn't come close to their Summerslam or Iron Man encounters.
> 
> Fail to see how it can be considered _"great"_ when nothing about it stuck out in significant fashion to do so. Glad I watched it today to reassure myself of this. Decent enough match to follow up the brilliance that is Austin vs Rock.
> 
> I'm the same way with Benoit vs Angle from Royal Rumble 2003.


Fully agree that their SS/SD matches are superior, i do love that SS match  Such great chemistry they had and a _healthy_ genuine rivalry


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It felt natural with them. Which was nice. Even when Brock turned to join Vince it didn't feel tacked on or too much. All the pieces fell into place nicely as things rolled on during 2003 for them. In fact, it was the added element of Brock's turn which fueled the fire to make Summerslam up in the intensity & quality department, imo. Added a new wrinkle for the guys to play off of the second time around.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ROLLINS/AMBROSE SERIES FUCKING RULES THE FUCKING WORLD. FUCK.

FCW 2011-End just ruled the world in general, tbh. Rollins and Ambrose were on point constantly, Cesaro, Hero, Sandow, Reigns and Kruger (think the last two may have had other names) were putting on quality matches constantly. Richie Steamboat was a fun babyface to support simply because he started his wrestling training in FCW pretty much. The guy has been in developmental for what... 3-4 years now, and it's like you just WANT him to succeed, so he was fun, even if the matches weren't "classics". I could go on praising FCW 2011-2012 and NXT 2011-2012 (before it became FCW 2.0 and was in the never-ending "redemption" stage, but was still the best WWE produced show in years) forever. 

The NXT storylines rocked so much. From Maxine and Johnny Curtis kidnapping Matt Striker with chloroform, to the very beginnings of the Primetime Players and their fight for Tamina Snuka's love. Yoshi Tatsu and Tyson Kidd battling it out over an action figure. Derrick Bateman's horrible lovelife. Maxine and Curtis having to be handcuffed together. Maxine giving William Rega footrubs on commentary :lmao The rise of Tyler Reks and Curt Hawkins. WILLIAM REGAL AS THE GOAT COMMENTATOR AND GM :mark:

Urghh. Other than TNA Slammiversary-BFG last year, NXT 2011-2012 was the best show since SD 09, maybe even SD 06.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NXT was too much fun to watch. Not the Divas season. _(though that had a sort of masochistic charm to it + Punker on commentary that one week)_ Redemption streak was probably the best show around with Superstars for a good bit. Generally got a quality match weekly or at least a slew of fun bouts.

Add Hawkins & Reks giving management constant grief on your list of storylines please. Via that we saw the debut of Hawkins' Obama inspired CHANGE shirt. (Y)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Great list. I agree wholeheartedly.
> 
> As for Wrestlingfan's 'Mania WWE title matches from 18 onwards:
> 
> ...


Cause it would been 10 years after WM18. That's the main reason, I guess.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Cause it would been 10 years after WM18. That's the main reason, I guess.


Oh right yeah, was just wondering.

That Rollins/Ambrose series from FCW is fantastic. Not a bad match. Can't wait to see them hook up after The Shield break up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ambrose became a made man after his work in FCW. All the matches vs Rollins & Regal is really all you need to prove his worth.

Rollins was set prior, but has continue to grow. Look what he did with Jinder Mahal of all people. Carried him to his only non-forgettable match within his wrestling career. I was impressed. And I'm a huge Rollins mark as it is. He still managed to surprise me by his work vs Mahal.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'm thinking of watching starrcade 2000


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

:lmao Hawkins and Reks should have been tag champs. At a time when Primo and Epico and Kofi Kingston and K fucking Kwik were tag team champions, Hawkins and Reks were squandered and wasted on the 4th show.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> i'm thinking of watching starrcade 2000


:argh:

The ladder match from that event is superb, however.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> i'm thinking of watching starrcade 2000


Opener is even better than New Blood Rising, imo. Show isn't THAT bad iirc. If the overbooking in the main event is toned down I might actually like Sid vs Steiner if I go find it. I know I didn't really mind Insiders vs Perfect Event. DDP swag, yo. Bunkhouse is a decent memory pardon some highlights of the crazy spots. Another I might enjoy if I took the time to go and watch it.



FluxCapacitor said:


> :lmao Hawkins and Reks should have been tag champs. At a time when Primo and Epico and Kofi Kingston and K fucking Kwik were tag team champions, Hawkins and Reks were squandered and wasted on the 4th show.


Kofi & R-Truth as tag champs floating around. FML level poor. Hawkins & Reks were saddled up with a stripper gimmick during that time. Oh joy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

nothing else is good? :lol


edit - DDP! :ddp


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That DDP smiley is glorious.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't know about you guys but i can't seem to get emotionally invested into the wrestlers of today. Sure, I like Bryan, Barret, Sheamus, Reigns, Ambrose, Ziggler etc. but they don't make me mark out like crazy, like i do/did with Taker, HBK, Triple H, Lesnar, Austin, Rocky, Flair, Eddie, Foley, Edge, Jericho and Kane. Maybe, It's because WWE doesn't give any depth to their character or don't give them any mic time and have killer promos. I don't know.

Anyone else feel the same?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not with the workers you listed. Every chance I see them I'm interested in their work. Wade is on the back-burner right now b/c he's doing fuck all. Rest fit.

Randy Orton fits the bill though. He comes on and I feel absolutely nothing. Except for the urge to fast forward all of his segments.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm still emotionally invested with the guys I like. Since I'm older I guess I don't 'mark out' nearly as much any more but I'm still glued to the screen when they're on it. Ok not 'glued' but still.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If only I had a recording of my reaction when Mark Henry returned. It would have been the perfect answer here.



Spoiler: SPOILER



It involved jumping around. *shhh*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Not with the workers you listed. Every chance I see them I'm interested in their work. Wade is on the back-burner right now b/c he's doing fuck all. Rest fit.
> 
> Randy Orton fits the bill though. He comes on and I feel absolutely nothing. Except for the urge to fast forward all of his segments.


I wouldn't say that around C2D , But i kinda agree considering he has been directionless for 2 years straight now. I think a proper feud with Lesnar could re-legitimize his career and put him back into the ME spot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The thought of Brock being wasted with Orton is troubling. Good thing it'll never happen. Orton is a lost cause. Moving on is the right idea.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I could happily name a dozen people in WWE I'd rather see Lesnar work with than Orton. Could even make it 15-20, pretty comfortably.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, Orton/Lesnar wouldn't be a good feud.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Infact, I'm gonna do it just for fun~! In no order;

John Cena again
Rey Mysterio
Evan Bourne
Daniel Bryan
CM Punk
Antonio Cesaro
The Undertaker
Seth Rollins
Sheamus
Christian
Dolph Ziggler despite my dislike for him
Kane
Big Show
Mark Henry
Chris Jericho
Roman Reigns
William Regal
El Generico if he counts
Luke Harper if he counts
Adrian Neville if he counts

I'd rather see all of them work with Lesnar than Orton.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can add some more, haha.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Regal/Lesnar?

:mark:

Regal Stretch vs Kimura Lock!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm completely invested, for the most part, in a handful of guys, pretty much the guys who I've been following for years and my old favourites. Then there are some of the new guys that interest me but I'm not totally sold on them just yet. That list consists of Seamus, The Shield, Damien Sandow (& Rhodes I suppose), Daniel Bryan, The Miz and a bunch of the NXT guys, Wyatt, Graves etc. These guys have me invested in them for different reasons which I like because they aren't all the same thing. It will take a while for them to reach the status of the former bunch however. We're talking about over 10 years of character investment combined with nostalgic childhood memories. That's a hard combo to beat but I like to be somewhat optimistic and think that one day I'll get there with some of the newer guys. I find it sad that you can't watch your favourites progress up the card any more though. I think that would really help a lot of fans emotional investment in characters tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Who do you guys think Brock may work with next after Mania.................don't say Trips again FFS :lol


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Lesnar vs. Generico has been a dream match of mine since like, 2008. I'd cry if it happened, but I know it won't. FUCK. It's even more painful when you know it won't happen despite them both being signed to the same company.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Who do you guys think Brock may work with next after Mania.................don't say Trips again FFS :lol


I'm sure they have something lined up with Punk to do over the next year. With their Heyman connections it would be silly not to do it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If Brock wins at Mania and Heyman takes control of the company then I don't think it's a stretch to think they'll do a third and final match between them where HHH wins control back at Summerslam or maybe even Survivor Series in a big team vs. team match or something along those lines. BE AFRAID lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> If Brock wins at Mania and Heyman takes control of the company then I don't think it's a stretch to think they'll do a third and final match between them where HHH wins control back at Summerslam or maybe even Survivor Series in a big team vs. team match or something along those lines. BE AFRAID lol.


Ill just rub my eyes and try and make that post go away :lol

IF Brock wins then fair enough if the storyline dictates, but i would like a fresh fued or two, or maybe even give Cena to Lesnar again, or maybe Punk, who else is there that Brock will fued with.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Infact, I'm gonna do it just for fun~! In no order;
> 
> John Cena again
> Rey Mysterio
> ...


Orton would be a much better candidate than those 3 you mentioned, Not to mention, Him and Brock could produce some great matches. Orton deserves something considering all the job outs his been doing.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think the stipulation involving Trips will be that he has to put his career on the line. Then he'll win thus not having to retire. They haven't really hinted at anything about Heyman taking over the company, though that is an angle I'd like to see.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I wouldn't be opposed to a big team WWE/HHH/McMahon vs. team Heyman type of deal at Survivor Series. The last time we had a big team match with high stakes was what? The Nexus in 2010. If they booked it well I'd be into it tbh and it wouldn't just be HHH and Brock again, we'd get a bunch of guys in there too. The WWE Avengers in HHH, Cena and whoever vs. the Heyman guys in Lesnar, Punk and whoever. They could do some sort of breakdown between Punk and Lesnar that perhaps leads to an eventual match between them. The good guys win, HHH gets control back and the bad guys still look strong in defeat. I'd have no problem with that so long as it was booked well which is always the problem I guess.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Yeah, that sounds great. Cena, HHH etc vs Punk, Lesnar etc. Like you said though, it depends how well they book it. I'd love to see another big high stakes Survivor Series match, that's for sure.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think it would make for great TV if they did it properly. Survivor Series has sucked so hard in recent years and hasn't been worth watching really. A match like that could really bring back some prestige. Let's face it, if Heyman does end up getting control of the company, HHH is eventually going to have to get it back which probably means another match. I'd rather have a team match than another singles. When you raise the stakes like that, it's always fun.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

SS has been pretty awful the last few years. They were going to discontinue it before fan 'backlash' stopped them.

I agree, if that angle happened and Heyman took over the reigns of the company, I sure as hell wouldn't want to see a third Lesnar/HHH match. 

Something like Team Heyman (Lesnar, Punk, The Shield maybe?) vs Team McMahon (Cena, HHH, Sheamus, a face Ziggler and DB) would be great. Obviously maybe a few changes on the teams but just an idea.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Orton would be a much better candidate than those 3 you mentioned, Not to mention, Him and Brock could produce some great matches. Orton deserves something considering all the job outs his been doing.


Really don't see how Orton is a better option than any of 'em tbh. Bourne is leaps and bounds a better babyface worker to me than Orton. Bumps and sells better, his comebacks and the timing involved is far superior to Orton's lazy transitioning and he has the agile offence to rock Lesnar and get the crowd invested. Christian is even better than Bourne as a babyface worker and again I can't see why Orton is a better prospect at delivering a better match than Christian. Christian in '09 and '10 proved week in and week out he was right there with Mysterio as the most consistent babyface worker with great selling, comebacks which were built to superbly and layered in struggle as well as taking some risky and couragous bumps for a man of his age.

Ziggler is unknown at this stage since he's never worked as a babyface on TV. Based on his bumping ability I have to think I'd sooner see him face Lesnar if only because he'd make a far more compelling FIP allowing Lesnar to ragdoll him around. The jury is out on how adept he'd be at timing and building his comeback, but since any face would be working underneath Lesnar I have to give the advantage to Ziggler based on his bumping alone. Bear in mind this is coming from a guy who's not even that high on Ziggler as a worker.

Show I'd prefer be kept heel or at least not a clear cut babyface. He's a great heel worker and has known chemistry with Lesnar dating back to the '02-'03 days. This match appeals to me more based on a personal spectacle. Seeing Lesnar throw Show around whilst being more competitively tested by someone of Show's size would be interesting to see how they work the match since the end result ideally would be to have Show look a threat and be seen as an accomplishment on Lesnar's part to overcome such a monster of a man.

Tbh, Orton is truthfully to me dire as a babyface worker, at least in this run from '11 onwards. He's so dull, lazy and plodding that he just can't evoke any emotion or significance in the match and it feels like the best example of how playing to a formula can nutrilise a worker and make him a struggle to watch. Even when Orton mixes up his offence and signature spots it still feels like a repeat of something everyone has seen before and unlike Cena, Mysterio or other babyface he doesn't have the charm or intrinsic skill in between the moves to make up for it to me. His comebacks lack any struggle or intrigue, despite being a good limb seller his bumping for obvious health reasons is more conservative these days and for me he's about the worst possible match up for current Lesnar. Not going to take the big and brutal bumps that someone like Bourne, Christian, Bryan or Mysterio would do and isn't a good enough babyface worker when selling and working underneath to make up for that. All he really has to me is name value and again, I have a hard time believing Lesnar/Orton on name value alone would be anything close to a draw.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Lesnar/Angle *****1/4*
HHH/Cena ****3/4*
Eddie/Angle ****1/2*
HBK/Cena ******
Cena/Batista ****1/2*
Y2J/Punk ******
Orton/Cena/HHH ****1/2*
Y2J/HHH *****
Cena/JBL ****
Miz/Cena ***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 4 review in my BLOG~!

My current ratings for the WWE title matches at WM from 18 onwards:

Lesnar/Angle ****1/4
HHH/Cena ****
Eddie/Angle ***
HBK/Cena ***3/4
Cena/Batista ***1/2
Y2J/Punk ****1/2
Orton/Cena/HHH ***1/4
Y2J/HHH **3/4
Cena/JBL DUD
Miz/Cena *

Need to re-watch them all. Except WM 18 match which I've re-watched and given a new rating to, but you'll have to wait until that review is posted first .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Lesnar/Angle - needs a rewatch
HHH/Cena ****1/4
Eddie/Angle needs a rewatch
HBK/Cena ****
Cena/Batista ***3/4
Y2J/Punk ***3/4
Orton/Cena/HHH **1/2
Y2J/HHH **1/2
Cena/JBL DUD
Miz/Cena DUD OF ALL WM DUDS

Good stuff Cal, need to get on and watch that Rude/Roberts match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Miz/Cena *


Surprised you gave it that much credit.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm not even sure what would be a good-great feud nowadays with WWE's writing being so inept these days to put something together that's quality from start to finish and runs at great length. I can list you some potentially good matches but what about the rivalries, the stories, THE FEUDS? WWE has a team of "creative writers" but they seem to have an issue with actually writing a strong beginning, middle, and end to a story without losing steam. The Undertaker/Shawn Michaels/Triple H four year story arc (five if you also include Flair) was captivating but I'm sure that program had huge input from the legendary figures involved. WWE is just so inconsistent with the big programs they have presented in the last few years and it is concerning as a viewer of their program. Maybe it's easy for them because they are the #1 wrestling company and they can use big names to sell the matches/PPVs alone but it would be great to have more depth and creativity in the product, especially underneath the top two or three programs. That's just not for WrestleMania season but on a weekly basis.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Another issue along those lines is that WWE has become even more lazy concerning anything that isn't the main event. I remember heated midcard rivalries like Edge/Matt and Edge/Benoit that would culminate in brutal Last Man Standing matches. Now these types of matches are given away like candy (exclusive to main events) and lack any meaning/emotion.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Man I'm watching jericho/punk from 08 on raw. classics on demand and WOW! Punk definitely wasn't over at this point one bit. Crowd is dead as fuck.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I don't know about you guys but i can't seem to get emotionally invested into the wrestlers of today. Sure, I like Bryan, Barret, Sheamus, Reigns, Ambrose, Ziggler etc. but they don't make me mark out like crazy, like i do/did with Taker, HBK, Triple H, Lesnar, Austin, Rocky, Flair, Eddie, Foley, Edge, Jericho and Kane. Maybe, It's because WWE doesn't give any depth to their character or don't give them any mic time and have killer promos. I don't know.
> 
> Anyone else feel the same?


I'm exactly the same way. Other than Orton, Cena and part-timers, I literally give zero fucks about the rest of the roster. Given something good, I would enjoy Bryan and Sheamus too but that's about it. Otherwise, guys like Punk, Ziggler and Swagger are my cure for insomnia.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Guys on the current roster I don't want to stab:

THE SHIELD
Daniel Bryan
Kane... kinda. His booking really doesn't help. One week he's a monster the next he's making jokes the next he's a monster making jokes.
Sheamus (matches at least)
CM Punk
Mark Henry

And uhhh... that's about it. Then Lesnar, Undertaker and Regal for part timers or whatever. Oh and Jericho, since he's around for a little while then buggers off to go sing in that shitty band or host terrible tv shows .

Ziggler has really been boring the shit out of me as of late. His direction-less direction and non stop losing isn't helping him one bit. The fact that he's likely gonna be WHC soon is crazy. Not that long ago I would have loved it. Now? He'll probably somehow get buried worse as WHC...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Guys on the current roster I don't want to stab:
> 
> THE SHIELD
> Daniel Bryan
> ...


Your list is pretty spot on with mine, though I'd add Ziggler even though I agree with everything you said about him. I think being bogged down with the AJ/Langston pairing surely isn't doing him any favors. Horrid booking is a given.

Also, add HUNTER to the part-timers list.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That list is pretty spot on. Though I wouldn't say I wanted to stab the rest of the roster...

And yes, add this guy to the part timer list :jpl

I hate calling him a part-timer.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I hate calling him a part-timer.


As a Triple H fan, that is at least better than retired. Undertaker's one match a year is like Christmas arriving for this fan!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

When the FUCK is Christian going to come back?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Clique said:


> As a Triple H fan, that is at least better than retired. Undertaker's one match a year is like Christmas arriving for this fan!


Agree with this. Would rather see Triple H wrestle once or twice a year than not at all.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Clique said:


> As a Triple H fan, that is at least better than retired. Undertaker's one match a year is like Christmas arriving for this fan!


That's true. Obviously I'm glad he's not retired yet. Hopefully he's still got a few matches left in him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The guy is in great shape still and doesn't appear to be nearly as broken down as Taker is, so I'm sure he can still give us a few matches every now and then.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Guys on the current roster I don't want to stab:
> 
> THE SHIELD
> Daniel Bryan
> ...


Big Show would be on my list.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Wrestlers I'm invested in currently:

- Dolph Ziggler
- The Shield
- CM Punk
- Damien Sandow

That's it. There's guys like Barrett, Jericho, Cesaro and Ryback that I don't mind, but the all the rest I simply don't care for. I'm looking forward to some NXT guys being called up after Mania, particularly Wyatt, he's my favorite on NXT, but I also have a bit of interest in Corey Graves and Kassius Ohno. And I also want Christian to return already.



The Lady Killer said:


> Another issue along those lines is that WWE has become even more lazy concerning anything that isn't the main event. I remember heated midcard rivalries like Edge/Matt and Edge/Benoit that would culminate in brutal Last Man Standing matches. Now these types of matches are given away like candy (exclusive to main events) and lack any meaning/emotion.


This. Christian/Jericho feud in 2004 is another one of those heated midcard rivalries, they had a cage match that main-evented RAW. Nowadays, midcard guys and midcard feuds never main-event.



Pierre McDunk said:


> When the FUCK is Christian going to come back?


I don't know.  I'd probably say not until after Mania now, which is a real shame, Christian missing out on yet another Mania by the looks of it. I want him to return already and start a program with Cesaro over the US Title.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Anyone ever seen the Top 50 Superstars DVD? 

Easily the worst DVD of all time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh yeah, Cesaro too. And Layla.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MoveMent said:


> Anyone ever seen the Top 50 Superstars DVD?
> 
> Easily the worst DVD of all time.


A lot of those 'Top 50...' DVDs are pretty woeful. The 'Top 50 finishers' one was poor also.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Big Show would be on my list.


Yeah I'd throw him on too. And Christian, for whatever category he comes under now .

Rey and Cena too depending on who they are facing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Forgot about Cesaro, though they've been booking him like shit lately so I'm not surprised. Don't care about him nearly as much as I did a month or so ago.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cesaro's been losing a lot lately, losing to the likes of The Miz, Ryback and Alberto Del Rio. Not to long ago he was getting protected in matches against Sheamus, but now he just loses every week which isn't good because they were building up as a strong US Champion.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> A lot of those 'Top 50...' DVDs are pretty woeful. The 'Top 50 finishers' one was poor also.


Yea I went ahead and skipped that one, did they name Sweet Chin Music #1?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MoveMent said:


> Yea I went ahead and skipped that one, did they name Sweet Chin Music #1?


No, the Stone Cold Stunner was #1. I think the Tombstone was #2 with the Pedigee at #3. I can't remember where Sweet Chin Music was.

It was a really bad set. I just watched it one evening on Netflix while in bed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> Anyone ever seen the Top 50 Superstars DVD?
> 
> Easily the worst DVD of all time.


Yeah, good lord that list is awful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Any WWE list/DVD that should include Benoit but doesn't is awful by default IMO.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

As soon as I saw Jeff Hardy at 45 I tried to return it to FYE but I left one of the discs in my PS3 (._.)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because I'm hungry for some gemz, Top 5 Heat matches?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Man I'm watching jericho/punk from 08 on raw. classics on demand and WOW! Punk definitely wasn't over at this point one bit. Crowd is dead as fuck.


Was that the King of the Ring match?



MoveMent said:


> Anyone ever seen the Top 50 Superstars DVD?
> 
> Easily the worst DVD of all time.


Yeah, the list is laughable and makes the overall package pretty average as a whole, but there are some pretty good matches on there that are exclusive to that set. Which is why I'd recommend someone pick it up for a cheap price.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Guys I'm marking HARD for ATM ;

CM Punk (My markdom for this guy is in a class of it's own)

Mark Henry 
The Shield
John Cena
Daniel Bryan

Guys who I could see being in my favorites soon ;

DOLPH (has grown on me so much it's insane)
Orton (If he gets his shit together)
Sheamus (only thing holding him back is his terrible character which needs to go away)

Guys who I wish would get off my fucking TV Screen forever ;

The Roid 
Ryback
Del Rio
Miz 
Kofi
Santino

Obviously not including guys like Hornswoggle, Retardo, and not including most part timers (Bock and GAME are 2 of my 3 all time favorites anyways) or Divas.

*Top Five Favorite Performers Ever ?... Or Top 10 or whatever *

EDIT : No, The NWO DVD is the worst DVD ever.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

No one has a ***** WWE title WM match. Or even a more attainable ****1/2. Interesting.

fave 5 performers: BROCK, BROCK, BROCK, BROCK, BROCK 

hon. men. Edge


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Didn't we make this list like last week or something?  Favorite performers (all time):

Ric Flair (GOAT)
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Bryan Danielson
AJ Styles
Steve Austin
The Great Muta

*KOK*, have you made it to the Undertaker match on the Dungeon Collection yet? Love to hear your thoughts.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That was favorite Workers, this is favorite performers   .

DAAAAAAAT BRET LUV.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

greendayedgehead said:


> No one has a ***** WWE title WM match. Or even a more attainable ****1/2. Interesting.


The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania X-7 - **** 3/4
Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WrestleMania VIII - **** 1/2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Foley
Taker
Rey
Jericho
Austin
HBK
Funk
Flair
Slaughter
Savage

No order


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Rock/Austin from 17 is about as close as it gets.

I think HBK/Cena is borderline ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Undertaker match is really, really good. Bret made Taker look absolutely impossible and sold really well. The babyface comeback was fantastic and it seemed like a really unique type of match due to Bret's ability to help build Taker's "Aura". Hated that fucking finish with a passion though TBH, would rather see it be ended with a Tombstone instead of cheap tactics... THE UNDERTAKER DOESN'T FUCKING NEED TO CHEAT. It's a different type of match and it's awesome. **** 1/2* from me all the way and a definite recommendation from fans of either guy.

Top 5 all time favorites ;

1. THE GAME
2. THE BEST IN THE WORLD
3. BORK LAZER
4. THE GOAT
5. MACHO KING YEAH DIG IT !


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HBK
Eddie
Flair
Jericho
Foley
Punk
Edge
Danielson
Kane
Austin


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Top 5 all-time favorites? That's tough. I'd probably go with:

1. THE GAME
2. THE HEARTBREAK KID
3. THE BAD GUY (Hey, yo)
4. BORK LAZER
5. THE RATTLESNAKE

Foley/Flair are close behind.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What about Umaga ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Top 10 is easier:

1. HHH
2. HBK
3. Hall
4. Lesnar
5. Austin
6. Flair
7. Foley
8. Taker
9. Danielson
10. Jericho


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Favourites:

Brutus "The GOAT" Beefcake
Chavo Guerrero Jr
The GREAT Muta
Keiji "totally different guy" Mutoh
THE ROCK

And Kofi Kingston...


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Top 5 Favorites

HBK
Jericho
Savage
Bret
Flair


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Top ten 

1. Shawn Michaels
2. Undertaker
3. Stone Cold
4. Kurt Angle
5. Chris Jericho
6. HHH
7. Edge
8. Brock lesnar
9. Kane
10. Randy Orton


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> The Undertaker match is really, really good. Bret made Taker look absolutely impossible and sold really well. The babyface comeback was fantastic and it seemed like a really unique type of match due to Bret's ability to help build Taker's "Aura". Hated that fucking finish with a passion though TBH, would rather see it be ended with a Tombstone instead of cheap tactics... THE UNDERTAKER DOESN'T FUCKING NEED TO CHEAT. It's a different type of match and it's awesome. **** 1/2* from me all the way and a definite recommendation from fans of either guy.


(Y) Glad you enjoyed it as well. I can understand your hate for the finish but it didn't bother me too much. Halfway through disc 3 and it's still my favorite match of the set thus far.



Big Z said:


> Favourites:
> 
> Brutus "The GOAT" Beefcake
> Chavo Guerrero Jr
> ...


Hey now, no need to hate on Muta. He DID say performers.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Since its 'favourites':

Terry Funk
Arn Anderson
Dick Murdoch
Eddie Guerrero
Jerry Lawler

All of these are guys I could never tire of watching. Such expressive performers. I was tempted to leave Lawler off and stick someone else in his place, but I was immediately reminded of his amazing heel performances full of endless schtick alongside his sensational babyface performances. Funk & Murdoch need no explanation for anyone who's seen them. Endlessly creative and entertaining performers with their theatrics and remarkable playing to a crowd, the sort of men who can carry opponents to very good matches entirely through their charisma and character work. Eddie & Arn are incredibly similar in that regard but also are astute at adapting to a more serious tone when the time is needed and performing superbly in that format.

Honourable mention to Bobby Eaton, Jim Duggan, Regal, Finlay, Vader, Bill Dundee, Dustin Rhodes, Fujiwara & Tenryu.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Clique said:


> The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania X-7 - **** 3/4
> Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WrestleMania VIII - **** 1/2


Err, apologies, I was referring to that list that had the matches from like XIX onwards. 


But really for the favourite performers thing, I'm gonna have to do a Booker T and have 6 people in my Fave Five. Christian, Edge, Jericho, Michaels, Austin, BROCK. He's the bees knees 


Big Z said:


> Favourites:
> 
> Brutus "The GOAT" Beefcake
> Chavo Guerrero Jr
> ...


Chavo "The Better" Guerrero... about time someone said it


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

All Time Favorites 

Ric Flair
Mick Foley
Terry Funk
William Regal
Finlay
DA GAME
Danielson
Tenryu
Vader
Hansen
Kawada
Steve Williams
and something I would of killed myself for saying two years ago, John Cena :cena3

Seriously, I have become the biggest Cena mark, I have no idea why, I saw KOK say this earlier, but I am thinking of doing a Cena side project over the summer, the guy is just amazing. Just everything about him just compels me, and I cannot wait until he carries The Rock to a semi watchable affair, and end the reign of roids, poor conditioning and eyebrow raises.

Also, like two days ago I was noticing the Regal love, and I am also thinking about going on a Regal binge, so if someone can just throw out his best stuff, as it has been forever since I seen a lot of his stuff, also was unaware he had a series with Flair :mark: so if someone could hook me up with TV gems and those particular matches.

And lastly, in a Top 1000 update, I have made literally zero progress this week, but Saturday I plan on changing that, as I will be busy for the next week after Saturday because I am going to PAX 

So hopefully that covers what has interest me, now continue with your regularly scheduled posting


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> What about Umaga ?


I took performers differently than just my overall favorites. Was factoring promos big time into that list but my top ten favorites (overall) would look a little different.

1. HBK
2. Eddie
3. CM Punk
4. Jericho
5. Umaga
6. Benjamin
7. Edge
8. Danielson
9. Kane
10. Flair


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> No one has a ***** WWE title WM match. Or even a more attainable ****1/2. Interesting.


I rated Austin/Rock from WM17 5 stars. My favorite match of all time.

The fact that someone like Meltzer didn't give it a 5 star rating, but did give one to a botchfest like MiTB 2011 is a joke. You'd think that someone with such a giant mancrush on Kenta and Misawa would pay a bit more attention to in ring stuff.

Cena/Punk from MiTB is so vastly overrated its comical. It had a hot crowd and a good angle going in. How does that translate into it being given a perfect rating? Aside from the screw ups in ring, we got an overbooked finish and from what I saw, rather average storytelling. They built up all intensity based on kicking out of 50 finishers, and that exposes the performers as being so incredibly lazy that they can't do it themselves-they have to use a crutch.

Yeah...I've never seen why MiTB got rated so highly. If its because of the crowd reaction, then Meltzer's list needs about 5 billion more entries on it. As for other people's perceptions of it...you can very easily tell who is new to wrestling when you look at a "best match ever" thread and see who says MiTB. Its not even in the top 100 matches ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Feck, forgot Hansen. He'd still be an honoruable mention most likely, though the more I watch the more he becomes a personal favourite.

Regal stuff:

Regal/Finlay Uncensored '96
Regal/Finlay Parking Lot Brawl
Regal/Larry Zbyszko Saturday Night 5/28/94
Regal/Tony Pena Nitro 11/25/96
Regal/Psicosis Nitro 12/16/96
Regal/Mysterio Nitro 2/10/97
Regal/Sting Great American Bash '96
Regal/Ultimo Dragon Slamboree '97
Regal/Arn '93-94 series
Regal/Benoit Velocity 7/16/05
Regal/Benoit No Mercy '06
Regal/Hashimoto New Japan 4/15/95
Regal/Ambrose FCW '11 & '12
Regal/Dreamer ECW 11/8/09
Regal/Steamboat Fallbrawl '93
Regal/Punk MSG House Show 12/28/08
Regal/Bourne House Show Romania '11
Regal/JBL Smackdown 4/28/06


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Punk MITB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rock/Austin WM 17. And I really like that match.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Cena/Punk MITB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rock/Austin WM 17. And I really like that match.


Sorry man, to quote Vince-"No chance in Hell"


Cena/Punk was a great angle and hot crowd. Nothing more. I fail to see how people don't understand this. Take those away and it was nothing special. Whereas if you take those away from Rock/Austin, its still awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KO Bossy said:


> Cena/Punk from MiTB is so vastly overrated its comical. It had a hot crowd and a good angle going in. How does that translate into it being given a perfect rating? Aside from the screw ups in ring, we got an overbooked finish and from what I saw, rather average storytelling. They built up all intensity based on kicking out of 50 finishers, and that exposes the performers as being so incredibly lazy that they can't do it themselves-they have to use a crutch.
> 
> Yeah...I've never seen why MiTB got rated so highly. If its because of the crowd reaction, then Meltzer's list needs about 5 billion more entries on it. As for other people's perceptions of it...you can very easily tell who is new to wrestling when you look at a "best match ever" thread and see who says MiTB. Its not even in the top 100 matches ever.


50 finishers? I can only recall 2, tbh. The 2 AAs that Punk kicked out of and the then the GTS that knocked Cena out of the ring, which was a perfectly believable way to make the move look good. Incredibly hot crowd, great ring work despite a couple small botches. I legitimately don't understand how an awkward looking powerbomb can suddenly just completely take someone out of the experience. Makes no sense to me. Just makes it seem more realistic, if anything. I'd disagree on it being overbooked. The part with Vince and Johnny actually made sense for the storyline. Vince was so desperate to keep the title in the company that he wanted the bell rung. Cena, being the good guy he is, stopped that, but also cost himself and the company the title.

Fan-fucking-tastic storytelling in my eyes.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KO Bossy said:


> Sorry man, to quote Vince-"No chance in Hell"
> 
> 
> Cena/Punk was a great angle and hot crowd. Nothing more. *I fail to see how people don't understand this.* Take those away and it was nothing special. Whereas if you take those away from Rock/Austin, its still awesome.


Because they have a differing opinion.

I thought Rock/Austin was very good but nowhere near the level that Punk/Cena was.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> The fact that someone like Meltzer didn't give it a 5 star rating, but did give one to a botchfest like MiTB 2011 is a joke. You'd think that someone with such a giant mancrush on Kenta and Misawa would pay a bit more attention to in ring stuff.


Its a star rating. It means nothing. Its Meltzer's opinion and nothing more. Its certainly not indicative of the match being objectively perfect. Not sure why him preferring one match to another is a remotely serious issue.



KO Bossy said:


> Cena/Punk from MiTB is so vastly overrated its comical. It had a hot crowd and a good angle going in. How does that translate into it being given a perfect rating? Aside from the screw ups in ring, we got an overbooked finish and from what I saw, rather average storytelling. They built up all intensity based on kicking out of 50 finishers, and that exposes the performers as being so incredibly lazy that they can't do it themselves-they have to use a crutch.


The story of Punk, the hometown kid battling to show the world and the company that his proclamation isn't based on unfounded ability vs Cena, the company ace battling to demonstrate he's the best and is rightfully at the top and how it intertwined. Cena initially trying to engage in a chain wrestling mat based match, to prove to himself, Punk and the world he could best Punk. How the match develops into Cena working on top and controlling the match and playing the default heel ala ONS '06. How Punk, the heroic babyface tries to work from the bottom to usurp the phenom that is Cena. How Cena the iconic and clean cut babyface begins to show frustration by Punk kicking out, even going so far as to engage the referee in a discussion about the speed of the count. The timing of the nearfalls and counters to envoke a response. Cena after teasing frustration and breaking character finally falls on his own sword by refusing to win in dirty fashion and in the process allowing Punk to hit one move to stun the world.

As for the 'finisher abuse'. 1 GTS won Punk the match. The earlier one saw Cena bump to the floor and the way it was sold as Punk's best chance slipping away before his eyes was perfect. Punk kicks out of two AAs. This is to demonstrate the heart, courage and resiliency to reinforce the narrative that Cena can't beat Punk and that maybe...just maybe Punk is as good as he says he is. There's certainly no more kickouts than we got in Austin/Rock. But like Austin/Rock, the kickouts fueled the story and were there for a reason. Punk needed to look inspirational and Cena starting to question his ability came about because Punk was looking impenetrable.



KO Bossy said:


> Yeah...I've never seen why MiTB got rated so highly. If its because of the crowd reaction, then Meltzer's list needs about 5 billion more entries on it. As for other people's perceptions of it...you can very easily tell who is new to wrestling when you look at a "best match ever" thread and see who says MiTB. Its not even in the top 100 matches ever.


There's a lot to love about it, depending on your tastes. I would love to see these 100 matches better than it, because even taking into account Lucha, Puro & Europe I'm not seeing the legitimacy in that claim.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Punk is a LEGIT 5* match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can still say the only time I was more emotionally invested in a match than Punk/Cena from MITB was Benoit/HBK/HHH and I was 12 at the time of that match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

**** 1/2 for Punk/Cena. 

_A classic_


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> 50 finishers? I can only recall 2, tbh. Incredibly hot crowd, great ring work despite a couple small botches. I legitimately don't understand how an awkward looking powerbomb can suddenly just completely take someone out of the experience. Makes no sense to me. Just makes it seem more realistic, if anything. I'd disagree on it being overbooked. The part with Vince and Johnny actually made sense for the storyline. Vince was so desperate to keep the title in the company that he wanted the bell rung. Cena, being the good guy he is, stopped that, but also cost himself and the company the title.
> 
> Fan-fucking-tastic storytelling in my eyes.


Yeah it was an exaggeration. Sue me.

No...that's overbooked storytelling. You can make that same distinction for any number of matches in history. "Well Vince didn't want Austin to win the title, so he had the Corporation interfere." Yeah, that doesn't make the finish any less overbooked. Overbooked is overbooked. You were getting a potential screwjob finish, distractions, interference, the face beating up the interfering party...how does that not sound the least bit overbooked?


Meantime, you have Austin and Rock damn near killing each other because the belt is so important to each of them, and then you have Austin pull off the heel turn by selling out to win the title by siding with his mortal enemy. Not only does that show how important the title is to him, it shows its importance to the industry. This is above and beyond what they achieved in the match itself, through the brawling, physicality, and emotion (Rock sells the Stunner like no other, and the facials by both were fantastic). Then you have Rock become the predominant babyface who looks incredible that he survived what he did, and was still kicking out after what he'd gone through. The power, the intensity, the surprise, the feeling...unrivaled. It really meant something to me, and I can't say that about many matches.

Punk/Cena...meant nothing. The only thing I could say sort of meant something was if it was booked with the correct finish of Punk winning and leaving. That happened, so that was pretty meaningful. The match itself...zero. I found no reason to care about it.




Pierre McDunk said:


> Because they have a differing opinion.
> 
> I thought Rock/Austin was very good but nowhere near the level that Punk/Cena was.


There was no level of Cena/Punk...that's the point. It was a hot crowd and good angle. Aside from that, it was a very average match.

I respect that people have a differing opinion, but the fact that some people find Punk/Cena to be so great is something that I find shocking. Incredibly overrated-what people see in it I'll never know. And that's not blind hate talking, I really enjoy Punk's work.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Point of contention. How is Punk/Cena more overbooked than Rock/Austin? Cena lays out Johnny Ace near the end, which ties into his character after they teased the occasion and Punk's resiliency irritating him. It was one moment, right at the end of the match and payed off the running theme they teased by showing Cena ultimately put his morals over winning dirty and wanting to beat Punk in a fair manner. I mean christ, Punk/HHH NOC '11 is the definition of WWE overbooking.

Rock/Austin had Vince breaking up the count, being chased around the ring by Rock, having Austin intercept him, blast him with a chair for a nearfall, motion to Vince to get the chair and then unleash the barrage of chair shots for the win with Vince standing in the middle of the ring watching over the count. Now considering how it ties into the devolution of the Steve Austin character over the entire match, I have no qualms with the direction they went. But I mean, I can't see how that isn't considered overbooking when you're calling one interrupted bit of interference by Johnny Ace a sign of overbooking.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> The story of Punk, the hometown kid battling to show the world and the company that his proclamation isn't based on unfounded ability vs Cena, the company ace battling to demonstrate he's the best and is rightfully at the top and how it intertwined. Cena initially trying to engage in a chain wrestling mat based match, to prove to himself, Punk and the world he could best Punk. How the match develops into Cena working on top and controlling the match and playing the default heel ala ONS '06. How Punk, the heroic babyface tries to work from the bottom to usurp the phenom that is Cena. How Cena the iconic and clean cut babyface begins to show frustration by Punk kicking out, even going so far as to engage the referee in a discussion about the speed of the count. The timing of the nearfalls and counters to envoke a response. Cena after teasing frustration and breaking character finally falls on his own sword by refusing to win in dirty fashion and in the process allowing Punk to hit one move to stun the world.


Here's what I saw:

Punk, in front of his hometown, promises to walk out with the title if he wins. To do that, he must beat Cena. Winning the title prove he's the best. 

Punk wins the title, he walks out.

I literally saw no more than that. I've tried watching the match several times and I literally do not see anymore than that. Its like a joke that everyone else finds hilarious but you're sitting there scratching your head wondering why its funny. Perhaps I'm just not meant to get it. Same with the novel 1984. Its apparently a classic and a favorite of many people-I thought it was a piece of crap.

I got Rock/Austin perfectly. It got an actual response out of me.

Punk/Cena doesn't. I don't see the appeal in the match. Thus, I don't rate it highly.



WOOLCOCK said:


> As for the 'finisher abuse'. 1 GTS won Punk the match. The earlier one saw Cena bump to the floor and the way it was sold as Punk's best chance slipping away before his eyes was perfect. Punk kicks out of two AAs. This is to demonstrate the heart, courage and resiliency to reinforce the narrative that Cena can't beat Punk and that maybe...just maybe Punk is as good as he says he is. There's certainly no more kickouts than we got in Austin/Rock. But like Austin/Rock, the kickouts fueled the story and were there for a reason. Punk needed to look inspirational and Cena starting to question his ability came about because Punk was looking impenetrable.


Ever think that perhaps you're putting meaning into places it doesn't exist? Because I saw none of this "Cena questioning his ability". I saw the same old crap I usually see from Cena. I can understand Punk kicking out due to his refusal to stay down, because he had a need to win the title and throw it in Vince's face that he let such a hot commodity get away and he should feel stupid for not protecting a good investment, but inspirational? Didn't think of that at all.

Maybe that's part of the beauty of wrestling. Everyone's interpretation is different. I took away one message, you took away another.

I still think Punk/Cena is overrated as all hell.



WOOLCOCK said:


> There's a lot to love about it, depending on your tastes. I would love to see these 100 matches better than it, because even taking into account Lucha, Puro & Europe I'm not seeing the legitimacy in that claim.


What I rate a match on is different than what you'd rate a match on. Why do I care if you see legitimacy in my claim? I can easily come up with a list of 100 matches I found to be way better.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Point of contention. How is Punk/Cena more overbooked than Rock/Austin? Cena lays out Johnny Ace near the end, which ties into his character after they teased the occasion and Punk's resiliency irritating him. It was one moment, right at the end of the match and payed off the running theme they teased by showing Cena ultimately put his morals over winning dirty and wanting to beat Punk in a fair manner. I mean christ, Punk/HHH NOC '11 is the definition of WWE overbooking.
> 
> Rock/Austin had Vince breaking up the count, being chased around the ring by Rock, having Austin intercept him, blast him with a chair for a nearfall, motion to Vince to get the chair and then unleash the barrage of chair shots for the win with Vince standing in the middle of the ring watching over the count. Now considering how it ties into the devolution of the Steve Austin character over the entire match, I have no qualms with the direction they went. But I mean, I can't see how that isn't considered overbooking when you're calling one interrupted bit of interference by Johnny Ace a sign of overbooking.


Yes, Punk/Hunter was extremely overbooked. No argument there.

I guess its my own interpretation. Vince broke the count, Rock got pissed and went to take him out and Austin, as you said, intercepted him. Then all Vince really did was hand Austin a chair while he pummeled Rock. Simple interference isn't overbooking, to me.

On the other hand, Vince and Co. distracting Cena with shit outside the ring, Ace getting knocked out by Cena, the attempted recreation of the Screwjob with the bell getting rung early, the stuff with Cena taking time out to yell at Vince...I found it distracted from the finish. Hence, that's why I find its overbooked.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Punk, in front of his hometown, promises to walk out with the title if he wins. To do that, he must beat Cena. Winning the title prove he's the best.
> 
> Punk wins the title, he walks out.
> 
> I literally saw no more than that. I've tried watching the match several times and I literally do not see anymore than that. Its like a joke that everyone else finds hilarious but you're sitting there scratching your head wondering why its funny. Perhaps I'm just not meant to get it. Same with the novel 1984. Its apparently a classic and a favorite of many people-I thought it was a piece of crap.


Fair enough. I saw:

Cena at the beginning trying to chain wrestle Punk. I took that as Cena trying to prove to Punk that Cena earned his position and could outwrestle 'The Best in the World'. The initial stages of the match built on this with Cena wrestling a different style based on matwork in a bid to show up Punk in his hometown.

We get the transition spot and Cena working in control. Now they could have had Punk work as the heel and make the story about him failing to put Cena away. But they didn't. Cena controls the body of the match and Punk works underneath. Here we get Cena essentially wrestling as 'the ace'. Looking dominant and constantly overwhelming Punk who in turn plays to the partisan crowd beautifully. This builds and builds with Cena constantly getting nearfalls before they smartly transition into the comeback.

Here both men trade counters into trademark submissions as well as blocking the other's finisher and thus when Punk kicks out of the first AA, and when Cena falls to the floor after the first GTS it feels like two decisive moments. In between this both men throw some stiff strikes to soften the other up, the counters feel well built to and timed to get the crowd gripped fearing a potential Punk screwjob and then we move into the finish. There always felt like a clear logical structure with things developing and they moved from the stalemate opening, into Cena's control & into the Punk comeback in excellent fashion.



KO Bossy said:


> Ever think that perhaps you're putting meaning into places it doesn't exist? Because I saw none of this "Cena questioning his ability". I saw the same old crap I usually see from Cena. I can understand Punk kicking out due to his refusal to stay down, because he had a need to win the title and throw it in Vince's face that he let such a hot commodity get away and he should feel stupid for not protecting a good investment, but inspirational? Didn't think of that at all.
> 
> Maybe that's part of the beauty of wrestling. Everyone's interpretation is different. I took away one message, you took away another.
> 
> I still think Punk/Cena is overrated as all hell.


I thought that was rather obvious tbh. Cena deliberately getting an extensive amount of nearfalls, with Punk proving defiant and resilient. Cena talking to the ref about a slow count, whilst not played up on extensively was a smart subtle break of the Cena character who generally would never be questioning an official. I thought the clear structure of Punk working underneath and having to fight for every comeback signified they were communicating a dual story of Cena controlling as usual but struggling to put an opponent away and Punk slowly but surely looking more impressive with every kickout and minute that passed by.

I have no issue with you disliking the match, you should know that after our last discussion in relation to Lesnar/Cena. I just find you pulling some questionable facts and being contradictory in some of your explanations as being a tad baseless. If you'd have approached this discussion with that last sentence then I wouldn't have been as obliged to respond. But calling it 'a piece of crap'. Berating Meltzer for having the gaul to praise the match as if his opinion actually means anything in the grand context etc. It feels off and like you're forcing your opinion with constant potshots at the match.



KO Bossy said:


> What I rate a match on is different than what you'd rate a match on. Why do I care if you see legitimacy in my claim? I can easily come up with a list of 100 matches I found to be way better.


Did I say you were wrong? I merely said to me I found that statement rather naive and that I would be interested to see this plethora of matches that so effortlessly smoked Punk/Cena.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

I sense that things are becoming a bit heated in here (mostly on my part), so let's just agree to disagree. I think Austin/Rock is vastly superior, some of you have differing opinions.

Let's move on to other topics.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would love a WOOLCOCK-esque breakdown/review of Cena/Lesnar.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

FWIW in relation to Rock/Austin, whilst I'm not as high on it as others (even though others who I generally share similar opinions with make great explanations as to why they consider it great) I do consider Austin's performance one of if not the best character performance I've seen in a WWF/E ring. The demented facial expressions after each kickout, the necessity in going back to moves he hadn't used in years/since he was a heel, the sudden bursts of anger and hopelessness with every Rock kickout, everything was perfect. I'm not as big on the majority of the ringwork but as far as a character study of Austin goes, its pretty damn near flawless and exceptional storytelling in that regard.

I definitely see the appeal in it. Big time atmosphere, two biggest stars in the industry, the aforementioned Austin performance and facial selling, constant developing emotion and the smart callback spots to prior matches to foreshadow his eventual heel turn etc. I really can see why its so beloved, but for me personally whilst I will heartedly agree on Austin's performance being exceptional and there being some very layered storytelling, the actual ringwork and pacing has constantly left me wanting more and with each watch I like it less and less. At this point its a very good match overall, but falls short of being a classic for me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Would love a WOOLCOCK-esque breakdown/review of Cena/Lesnar.


Had to rely on search to find this, but taken from the 2012 MOTYC thread:



> Pretty much one of the most unique matches I've seen in some time, Cena at his absolute best as the underdog bumping for everything Lesnar dished out and utilising his facial expressions to signify the beating, the desperation, the pain and the resilience in his actions. Lesnar just unleashed brutally stiff offence from the forearms, to the kimura, to the knee to the ribs which sounded ridiculously painful and he took a couple of frightening bumps for a guy getting payed $5m for a select number of dates. The botch where he failed to clear the ropes and nearly broke his neck could have really taken away from the match in normal circumstances, but they managed to create this never before seen aura of chaos and legitimate violence for a WWE match that honestly Lesnar hobbling and smiling just made me forget the fall and focus on the next part of the match. They shifted from the MMA esque beginning into pro wrestling wonderfully, and the Backlund esque power spot with Cena deadlifting Lesnar out of the Kimura was just a superb spot to get the crowd behind him and serve as the transition, and Lesnar's facial expression of disbelief and pain perfectly captured the drama the spot was meant to signify.
> 
> Chicago of all crowds being incredibly pro Cena in his comeback was a sight to behold, and rather than this be a super Cena comeback like people love to critique him on, this was one of his most hard earned comebacks which perfectly played off of Lesnar's domination and allowed Cena to still look like The Ace of the company, whilst in no way making Lesnar look like a chump. The 17 minute beating he unleashed on Cena was something most fans in that arena had never seen in their lives, and the more I watch the match the more I like the finish with Cena managing to pull a win out of his arse through sheer desperation and good timing, and Lesnar being momentarily knocked out of his comfort zone and then eating the pin. Its a shame they then rushed Cena into a feud with Johnny Ace where he reverted back to his stale character, because that one night in Chicago is the John Cena that everyone could get behind as a wrestler, and his post match promo which was incredible live with his limp arm and bloodied head was made obsolete when he was on Raw the next night and back to his pre Rock/Lesnar character.
> 
> But aye, the selling and facial expressions from both men were sublime, there was always something going in the match, Lesnar put in arguably one of his greatest heel performances, the crowd was alive with them every step of the way and its without doubt Cena's finest match in his best match type: hopelessly outmatched babyface v monster heel. It just had everything that makes pro wrestling separate from other sports and what makes it as popular as it can be, Bryan/Sheamus and Bryan/Punk were better wrestled in the purest sense, but nothing will come close to replicating the aura and nature of Lesnar/Cena this year (and if something does we'll be damn lucky IMO) and for that reason, its comfortably my MOTY. Although I concede part of the love affair with the match could be seeing it live and not expecting that level of violence and drama from a 2012 WWE match, whether it can stand the test of time remains to be seen but I've no arguments with calling it the MOTY and one of the best matches in company history.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Sure this has been asked before, but *WOOLCOCK*(or anyone else) can you give me a list of the best Mid-South matches out there? Particularly lookin at '85.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Fair enough. I saw:
> 
> Cena at the beginning trying to chain wrestle Punk. I took that as Cena trying to prove to Punk that Cena earned his position and could outwrestle 'The Best in the World'. The initial stages of the match built on this with Cena wrestling a different style based on matwork in a bid to show up Punk in his hometown.
> 
> ...


See I saw basically none of that. I dunno if the story just wasn't as evident to me or it was because I just couldn't get into it. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> I thought that was rather obvious tbh. Cena deliberately getting an extensive amount of nearfalls, with Punk proving defiant and resilient. Cena talking to the ref about a slow count, whilst not played up on extensively was a smart subtle break of the Cena character who generally would never be questioning an official. I thought the clear structure of Punk working underneath and having to fight for every comeback signified they were communicating a dual story of Cena controlling as usual but struggling to put an opponent away and Punk slowly but surely looking more impressive with every kickout and minute that passed by.
> 
> I have no issue with you disliking the match, you should know that after our last discussion in relation to Lesnar/Cena. I just find you pulling some questionable facts and being contradictory in some of your explanations as being a tad baseless. If you'd have approached this discussion with that last sentence then I wouldn't have been as obliged to respond. But calling it 'a piece of crap'. Berating Meltzer for having the gaul to praise the match as if his opinion actually means anything in the grand context etc. It feels off and like you're forcing your opinion with constant potshots at the match.


Didn't get the inspiration part, I saw it as Punk trying to spite Vince more than anything, since in the weeks leading up he kept talking about how Vince had mismanaged his talent.

I tend to be gruff with my opinion because I often feel that others try to enforce their opinions on me. Like when Pierre there said that Cena/Punk was nowhere on the same level, I felt as if he was stating that to be a fact. That sort of thing gets me worked up. I'm used to dealing with people in the other sections, so being in here where its much more civilized takes a bit of getting used to. My apologies.

Still, I legitimately can't see how someone would give MiTB 5 stars but not Rock/Austin. Hard fact to wrap my head around.

Did we discuss Lesnar/Cena? I honestly can't remember.




WOOLCOCK said:


> Did I say you were wrong? I merely said to me I found that statement rather naive and that I would be interested to see this plethora of matches that so effortlessly smoked Punk/Cena.


Now I never said they effortlessly smoked Punk/Cena, but I could probably find a list of 100 matches that I personally think are better than Punk/Cena (some of which I would say effortlessly smoke). Again, depends on the person who's grading. My tastes differ from others. I, for example, take heavily from how into a match I was and how much I personally cared about what was going on. In Punk/Cena, I didn't care at all, except for seeing Punk win and walk out. The match itself...I was pretty meh about it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb I agree with everything you said. Cena getting a Chicago crowd that not even a year prior was booking him out of the arena to rally behind his desperate comeback is a testament to how great Cena can be as an outmatched babyface. 

Didn't know you were there to witness it live. 

And of course, BROCK is BROCK. :brock


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> ...the actual ringwork and pacing has constantly left me wanting more and with each watch I like it less and less. At this point its a very good match overall, but falls short of being a classic for me.


And that's exactly how I feel about MiTB. Don't get me wrong, the crowd and angle really did help make it more interesting, and it felt like it was a pretty big deal, but for me, there's just things that are...missing...that prevent me from holding it in as high a regard as other people on this forum. It just didn't do it for me.

I also still don't get the appeal of Brock/Cena considering the atrocious finish, but I'm not going back there again.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Sure this has been asked before, but *WOOLCOCK*(or anyone else) can you give me a list of the best Mid-South matches out there? Particularly lookin at '85.


Duggan/Sawyer NO DQ 11/11/85 : http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/jim+duggan+vs+buzz+sawyer/1#video=xw0fy6

Duggan/Sawyer Dog Collar Match 12/27/85 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kNyvCWMHGs

Butch Reed/Dick Murdoch 9/22/85 (Link unavailable, might try and upload it when the Mid South set I ordered from Cal arrives)

Butch Reed/Ric Flair 8/10/85 (see above)

Duggan/Dibiase (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Coal Miner's Glove,Tuxedo, Cage match) 3/22/85: (see above). This is widely considered the best match in company history. Every stip makes sense in the context of the feud in spite of how ridiculous it reads on paper.

Jake Roberts/Ric Flair 11/24/85 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiUs1MNrcNo

Ted Dibiase/Ric Flair 11/6/85 (goes 7 minutes in length, but preceeded by a brilliant heel turn and bloody beating of Dibiase): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUWys7uIIkI

Ted DiBiase/Jim Duggan (No DQ) 3/8/85 

Butch Reed vs. Dick Murdoch 10/14/85 

Dibiase/Murdoch (No DQ) 12/31/85

Flair/Wahoo McDaniel 7/12/85 

Sorry there's few links, if I can figure a way to upload 'em to Youtube I honestly will try  .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Question to both WOOLCOCK and KO Bossy, what is the most important aspect of a great match? Is it the actual ringwork, selling, storytelling, atmosphere, drama, high spots or etc?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy hell, much appreciated. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> :hb I agree with everything you said. Cena getting a Chicago crowd that not even a year prior was booking him out of the arena to rally behind his desperate comeback is a testament to how great Cena can be as an outmatched babyface.
> 
> Didn't know you were there to witness it live.
> 
> And of course, BROCK is BROCK. :brock


I meant live as in watching live on PPV  . I've only ever made it to one show and that was a House Show in Manchester in '03.



Oliver-94 said:


> Question to both WOOLCOCK and KO Bossy, what is the most important aspect of a great match? Is it the actual ringwork, selling, storytelling, atmosphere, drama, high spots or etc?


Differs in people's perception. To me, you need structure. Structure dictates a clear narrative and establishes a significance in everything that develops. A great worker will then take that structure which holds the match together and develop a story around it: e.g Flair against a powerful opponent. The bulk of the match would see him losing the strike/power exchanges and having to constantly find ways to ground and contain his much larger opponent.

Selling is crucial. However selling is a vague term. There's no limb selling in Austin/Rock yet Austin's expressive facial selling (conveying anger, frustration, desperation and worry at pivotal moments) carries the body of the match and creates a story and sense of drama in every nearfall as it progresses and heightens his paranoia, fear and eventual heel turn when he accepts he can't beat Rock fair & square. Limb selling can be equally as effective however. Without some form of selling, be it facial selling or actual bodypart selling there's no drama, no drama makes it very hard to create an engaging and riveting story which will progress and compliment the ringwork to produce a great match.

This is all based on individual perception though. There isn't an objective way to 'work a good match'. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and thus what makes a good match to me may be boring and lifeless to you.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

For me, its how much I care about the match. Usually what I look for is the selling, drama and storytelling. 

For example, one of my favorite matches of all time is Rock/Mankind I Quit match from the '99 Rumble. There really wasn't much wrestling to speak of in the match, but the selling, drama and storytelling were off the charts. Building up how Mankind had never quit, and how Rock was in a match he couldn't win and Mick couldn't lose. How Rock would deliver sickening chairshot after sickening chairshot and Mick wouldn't stay down. How Rock handcuffed Mick and gave him the People's Elbow onto a chair on his head, and Mick still wouldn't quit. How Mick finally said "you'll have to kill me"...not only was the title on the line, but so was Mick's reputation as this living legend of hardcore wrestling. It basically took the Rock almost killing Mick to win, and even then he had to cheat (though at the time we didn't know). Rock came out looking like a champion for conquering this foe in a match that it was basically touted that he wouldn't win, and Mankind came off looking as this superhuman for surviving 11 chairshots to the head, a gaping wound above his hairline, almost getting electrocuted, etc. Amazing match, for me. To me, that's what matters. 

Conversely, if a match has great in ring work, that's great, but if there's no substance behind it, who cares?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Holy hell, much appreciated. (Y)


Of the links available, I'd say Duggan/Sawyer 11/11 is your best bet. Brilliant bloody brawl with some hideous Sawyer bumps, Duggan throwing vicious punches and bumping like a madman, a wild and rabid crowd and a brilliant post match angle that dominates 6 minutes of footage and excuses an initially underwhelming finish.

Jake/Flair & Dibiase/Flair are super though. Dibiase/Flair as an all round segment including the pre match and post match assault of Dibiase is one of wrestling's finest angles in turning the villanous Dibiase face, paying off to a wonderful delayed heel turn of Murdoch and giving us a sub 10 minute match built around Dibiase trying to win the title in what would likely be his only ever opportunity. You really need the pre match angle as context for the match, but I think you could appreciate what they attempt to do in 7 minutes and trust me when I say the pre match attack is vicious and memorable and makes for an overall astounding segment.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

On the Rock/Austin series, I liked the sellings of both men in their third Mania match. The way Austin would sell that third Rock Bottom is like he just broke his back and Rock's reaction after Austin kicks out of the second Rock Bottom is priceless. 

KO Bossy, lol I watched Rock/Foley today. Never knew there was a table botch in the match, still didn't take away from the match though. Rock's brutality in the match fits so well with the pre-match promo with Mankind mentioning his fall from HIAC, barbed wire matches, the fact that he has only one ear and etc. After all those attacks from the Rock, Mankind would still not quit. Rock was hilarious every time Foley asked if he wanted to quit, "Rock says you can kiss my..." and then Foley smacks him with the mic :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

How I rank the qualities of a match mentioned by Oliver:

1) Ring work- If the match is sloppy, if it stays in first gear throughout, and there's no psychology to it, I don't care how dramatic the match is, how great the crowd is or how many HOLY SHIT moments there are, there's only so high I'd be able to rate it.

2) Selling- Selling is high on the priority list. No selling (whether facially, physically, or whatever else can encompass selling) can hurt a match, mainly because selling is what adds realism to a match. No way someone goes through the punishment these guys do and gets away with it. It's why shit like what happened at Summerslam 2010 pisses me (and many others) off... or when he goes through a 20 minute match and just manages to hit the AA, makes a pin, and then gets up right away to celebrate. 

3) Drama- At this point we get to the qualities of a match that I can do without and still maybe call a match a classic, but they certainly help a lot. There's nothing like heart-pumping action and spots that get me off the edge of my seat and make me think it's over. HHH's tombstone to Taker at WM27 probably bumps the match up half a star for me, as even re-watching it it still amazes me Taker kicked out. That and Taker's selling is what really made that match for me. And on Punk/Cena, their NOC, despite becoming a bit much of a finisher fest, it kept me very much on the edge of my seat. I was sure Punk had the title won with the rock-bottom, and then when he got AA'd, I knew that was it... or well I thought I knew... Punk kicking out of that was amazing. Those are just two fine examples of drama in a match, though it's not just all about false finishes, drama goes hand in hand with storytelling in a match, which brings me to...

4) Storytelling- This is what for some people, separates the great matches from the classic matches. It doesn't impact my score that much, but it plays into the drama of the match. Sometimes it's story driven in the sense of going off a storyline/arc. One recent one that is often mentioned is Taker/HHH WM28. That match is one of the best examples of storytelling off a feud you can get, if not the best. Or a story can be built in the match itself, like in Punk/Bryan where they took the nothing that was given to them and created a very basic in-ring story of two wrestlers who knew each other very well after growing together in the Indy's, competing for the greatest wrestling title in the world. 

5) Crowd- I can probably sit through a match better than most that's dead if I like at least one of the guys in it. Crowd doesn't play much of a factor for me, though obviously if the crowd is really in a match I'll tend to like it a bit more than one that doesn't. Sometimes a crowd can be a good indication though that a match sucks and that's why they don't react, or it could be because they're exhausted from going all out in a previous match, or the crowd just sucks and would barely react to Rock vs. Austin happening on that night right in front of them. But yeah, I try not to let crowd sway my opinion in a negative fashion, though if the match sucks, the lack of crowd is probably going to make me rate it even worse.

6) OMG/High spots- Crazy spots are fun and add to a match, but never take away if they're not done except in certain match types where you'd expect something crazy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Cena/Punk MITB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rock/Austin WM 17. And I really like that match.


After all the hoopla, I'll just saw I agree with this ^.

(Y)


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Cena/Punk is a LEGIT 5* match.


None of them are, their best ones have blatant botches in them.

That reminds me, I hope Cena never tries another Hurricarana


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Once again, KO Bossy is talking out of his ass. What's new.

Anyway, off to watch the SD MITB from MITB 2010. I wanna see if it holds up. It's my favourite MITB match ever. Haven't seen it since however.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SD MITB from 2010 is very fun. I loved Big Show in that match. Would put 2011's above it but only by a little.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2010 & 2011 Smackdown MITB matches are nearly dead even for me. Unsure which I could say I like more right off the bat. Fun moments galore in both. Not to mention the winners in each are two of the most personally satisfying. Chi-town going ape for Dragon is so BOSS.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well, call me crazy but the SD MITB 2010 match is the best one ever. Yes, I said call me crazy. I know WM 21 usually gets touted as the best ever but there's just something about MITB 2010 that's so much damn fun. The whole story with Big Show and the ladder, it's just freaking awesome! 

But SD MITB 2011 you guys say eh? Hmmm, I don't recall it at all. I remember the RAW one because it had that sick Miz fall but apart from D-Bryan's surprise win, I can't remember anything from it. I should give it a watch. But up next a first time watch of Miz vs D-Bryan vs John Morrisson Submissions Count Anywhere.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone know if Miz leaving that match was planned or if he really fucked up his leg? Because it looked like that easily could've been a real injury.

That submissions count anywhere match is very fun. (Y)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah, The Smackdown Money in the Bank match from 2010 is really great. Although I don't think it's better than the WrestleMania 23 Money in the Bank match. 

The Smackdown Money in the Bank match from 2010 is good also with Daniel Bryan winning which was awesome. Heath Slater actually put on a really good showing in that match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sorry, but I missed the "favorites" list a few pages back. Mine are:

Trips
HBK
Rock (everything through his heel run in 2003; 2011-current Rock blows)
Austin
Punk
Bryan


I'm curious to hear favorite tag teams. 

Mine are:

Rockers
New Age Outlaws
Rock/Sock (for the promos only)
Haas and Benjamin
Edge and Christian
Dudleys


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Submissions Count Anywhere is really fun but I don't think I would go more than *** on it honestly. I do have one huge gripe though with the match. Goddammit Morrisson. If you ever want to get a job back with the WWE learn to sell, please. He takes a SCF to the concrete floor, Miz and D-Bryan are battling it out on the entrance ramp, Morrisson out of nowhere is climbing up the stage props hopping up like a goddamn bunny rabbit.

To me you just get so much more climbing something looking as if, gee I don't know, you damn near got your goddamn face busted open on hard concrete. Morrisson's freaking leaping up the goddamn thing. Believe it or not something like that takes a lot out of a match for me. Had he climb slowly, pause and take a breather, climb some more then deliver the big jump it just would have meant so much more. But when he's jumping up like a madman it makes me go, "Huh, he's not really hurt" That and it takes away from the suspense of the spot imo. Like it just builds to it when you climb slowly and look hurt, you know?

Still a fun match while it lasted though. But holy shit! Looking at that match I forgot how vanilla D-Bryan was. What's funny is that the other that I was watching Moxley vs D-Bryan from DG USA (Had no clue this match ever happened btw and it seems as if it took place when Bryan got fired) It was a great match btw as well. But when I saw that match Bryan didn't look so vanilla. There's just something about WWE's production that really makes you have to step your game up. I'm sorry but the way he looked in 2010, Bryan was nowhere near ready to main event, Just no way. Give me YES/NO Bryan over the 2010 version anyday of the week. 

Man, it's amazing how far Daniel Bryan has come in terms of his look. Just an amazing transformation. It's like looking at two completely differently people. Then again there is his beard and greasy hair. But still, he's bulked up quite a bit since then as well. Ahhhhh! Point is it's freaking amazing, Bryan's transformation.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MITB 2010 was probably my favorite PPV that year, although Wrestlemania gave it a run for its money. Both MITB matches were good in their own right, and I really enjoyed Mysterio/Swagger. I know a lot of people feel that Money In The Bank should go back to Wrestlemania or be removed entirely, but I feel that this is one of the very few gimmick matches that is worthy of its own PPV. By giving it its own PPV, it makes the Money in the Bank match that much more special.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

In terms of consistency has there ever been a PPV better than MITB? I mean they've only had 3 but all 3 have been good shows.

The first MITB was a success, no doubt. Kane cashing in on the same night was just brilliant booking. What a way to show off this brand new PPV. 

2011, do I really need to explain?

As far as 2012 goes, meh. It's not as good as either 2010 and certainly doesn't have anything on 2011 but it still a good show overall. But yeah so far, the MITB has been a consistently good offering. The only PPV that has it beat is Extreme Rules and that's mostly because it's been around longer.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I always felt Backlash was a consistently great show. And then Extreme Rules essentially took it's slot in the schedule and kept it going.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I might be in the minority, but after MITB, my favorite series of PPVs is TLC. TLC 2010 had some fun matches, even if the main event was awful. 2011 was a really good old-school structured PPV with one of the best TLC matches ever in the main event. Last year was also a very good PPV with a solid crowd, a classic star-making match, and excellent pacing. Something about the ladder gimmick brings the best out of wrestlers.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection - Disc 3

**WWF Championship
*Bret Hart (c) vs. Diesel - *** 1/2
_King of the Ring '94

_*No Holds Barred
*Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - *** 1/4
_RAW 3/27/1995

_Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte - *** 3/4
_IYH 3: Triple Header 9/24/1995

_Bret Hart vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin - *** 3/4
_Sun City Superbowl 9/14/1996

_*WWF Championship
*Bret Hart (c) vs. The Patriot - *** 1/4
_IYH: Ground Zero 9/7/1997

_*WCW United States Championship
*Bret Hart (c) vs. Booker T - ** 3/4
_Nitro 1/25/1999

_*WCW Championship Tournament - Semi Final
*Bret Hart vs. Sting - * 1/4
_Mayhem 11/21/1999_


- Bret/Diesel isn't the best of their encounters but it's a good start to the series and a pretty fun match, albeit a little overbooked. Shawn is in Diesel's corner & gets involved quite a bit while Jim Neidhart is in Bret's corner and attempts to fend off Shawn but in turn sorta ruins the finish. Good stuff overall.

- The No Holds Barred match with Owen isn't quite the home run I was hoping for but it's still a heated brawl with great action. Kept it pretty low key in the smaller venue & it probably would've benefited with being on a bigger stage with more time.

- I've always heard people say the Lafitte match is so underrated and a true gem, and man they weren't kidding. Really hard hitting, physical match with some big bumps. Got a whole lot of time and my only real problem was Lafitte not really no selling, but it never looked like anything affected him. He was rather emotionless in selling or just doing anything.

- Bret vs. Austin is great, but that should be expected.  Purely technical wrestling match with some fancy matwork and counters mixed in with Austin's heel tactics in the late stages. Owen on commentary was hilarious too. He was so full of himself. Somewhat creative finish as Austin countered the sharpshooter every time, but I think it could've benefited with even more time.

- Upped my rating a little for Bret/Patriot based on my last viewing, enjoyed the nearfalls a little more this time around. Copy and paste job from last year: Let me first say that The Patriot reminds me way too much of Mil Mascaras, and that's certainly not a good thing. He seems very stiff in the ring (in terms of his body language) and he can't sell the simplest things, like a punch or kick. He wasn't exactly _bad_ in the ring but his moveset was very basic and he still seemed pretty green. Luckily Bret held up his end. He sold everything really well and I adored his legwork, despite it not going anywhere. The match was pretty overbooked, the Vader & Bulldog interference was totally unnecessary and it was pretty silly that the match continued after Bret got pummeled. Patriot got a couple nice nearfalls, solid stuff.

- As expected, match quality takes a hit when we reach the WCW run. Match vs. Booker was pretty solid. Good legwork from Bret, but Book's selling is pretty meh. Some may get turned off by the finish, but it's WCW & Bret was heel, so idk what else to expect. Match with Sting sucked imo. No real structure & it was really weird seeing Sting play a heel since they were in Canada. Like that's just not natural for him at all. Highly overbooked too with Luger interference, a baseball bat, DQ finish & restart to a clean finish.

*Overall DVD Score: 9/10*

- So yeah, If you couldn't guess it already, this dvd is a total blast. So much fun to watch all these unseen/unreleased gems & Bret's comments on every worker he faces makes it so much more enjoyable. Very consistent when it comes to match quality. No classics on this set (unlike his first) but a bunch of gems instead. Highly recommended. Excited for everyone else to start watching and reviewing this. My 'best matches' list more than likely won't look like anyone else's.

*Best Matches on the Set

*1. vs. The Undertaker (_MSG 1/31/1992_) ****
2. vs. Mr. Perfect (_4/23/1989_) *** 3/4+
3. vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (_Sun City Superbowl 9/14/1996_) *** 3/4
4. vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte (_IYH 3: Triple Header 9/24/1995_) *** 3/4
5. Hart Foundation vs. Twin Towers (_Duluth, MN 5/17/1989_) *** 3/4​- BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! I'll be reviewing the Blu-Ray extras very soon as well, so keep an eye out for that.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

****1/2+

HBK/HHH/Benoit WM XX
Rock/Austin WM 17
Lesnar/Angle WM 19 (personal favorite, big bias, love everything about this match)

On the cusp:
Taker/Batista, HBK/Cena WM 23
Taker/Edge WM 24
HBK/Hart, WM 12

So many great non-title matches that I could list, should they meet criteria.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My boy *JE187* dropping that review on us like only he can! Brother, that shit was such a great read I don't know where to start and I'll spin you a review of my own when I finish the set but due to some technical issues (like wiping out my hard drive, deleting all of my reviews and lists in the process ; WHICH FUCKING SUCKS MAJORLY) it's probably going to be another day. Fucking stupid computer and it's retarded self erasing.

My favorite tag team ever is The Steiners, due to SCOTT STEINER being one of the most epic tag workers ever honestly, whoever shits on the guy's work because they saw his 2002-2003 WWE run can go fuck themselves and die slow because I loved his WCW shit and even some of his TNA shit. One of my all time favorites ever and not just on a ridiculously comical level.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steiners rock. Seem to be the only team in WCW to actually make a Harlem Heat match decent. Might be one vs the Nasty Boys that wasn't half bad. Don't hold me to that though. Faith in the Nastys is fine, but Harlem Heat jesus christ.

Don't get me started on the opener from Road Wild '97. Working a match so that Bagwell & Norton of the nWo would come off like the faces? WHAT? Bless Vicious & Delicious for trying.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Steiners v Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc 1990 is a legitimately great match. For comparison's sake I'll say if it happened in WWE it might be a top ten WWE tag ever. What's better than it? 

Two-on-two only:

Rockers v Arn/Tully 1/23/89 and the Boston Garden match from 3/18/89
Rockers v OX at Rumble 91 
Austin/Trip v Chrises 5/21/01


I'll throw a MAYBE to Austin/Michaels v Owen/Bulldog because I haven't seen it in a while, and I STILL haven't seen the 1994 'Clique' tag or Bret/Davey v Backlund/Owen from 95, but if I give the benefit of the doubt to all of them and say they're better, then that makes only 7 I can think of. Hardys v MNM from Rumble 07? I want to watch that one again.

I don't know if I'll stand behind any of this tomorrow and I'm not sure why I'm even listing WWE for a WCW match, but one thing's for certain - Steiners v Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc 1990 is really, really awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah I know that one is wicked awesome. 

Reading my post over and it doesn't sound as clear as I was trying to be. Meant Nasty's might have helped Harlem Heat along to a decent or possibly good match during their 1995 series. Think it was their Superbrawl match that was the one I am thinking. Yep, b/c Uncensored is utter nonsense & Slamboree does that tired and lame "my partner is beat up so I'll do it alone only for him to return and get the not so surprising win" crap.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh...........you meant Nastys v Harlem Heat........OOPS. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It turned into a soapbox for me to crap on Harlem Heat once again. 

with trying to put over the Nasty's in the process.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

high Kenny is back


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Best PPV's from 2001 please.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Best PPV's from 2001 please.


Rumble
Mania
Judgment Day
Survivor Series

Plus No Way Out, Backlash are good. To be fair that year is great, I don't think there's a 'bad' PPV all year. InVasion was meh though. That's probably the worst.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Rumble
> Mania
> Judgment Day
> *Survivor Series*
> ...







I have that PPV on VHS, but I can't watch it because I don't have a video player anymore.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I still have every PPV from mid 2000 to mid 2003 on home recorded VHS haha. I keep meaning to transfer them over but it's a lot of effort. I do still have a video player though so I get them out from time to time.

Anyway, Survivor Series is a great PPV. One of my favourites. The Team WWF/Team Alliance match is great fun. DAT twist at the end. Angle as the mole. :cool2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Team WWF/Team Alliance is the greatest traditional match from SS imo


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The InVasion poster is GOAT.










Haven't watched the PPV in years though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Team WWF/Team Alliance is the greatest traditional match from SS imo


That match and Team Austin vs Team Bischoff from Survivor Series 2003 are my favorite Survivor Series matches: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/team+austin+vs+team+bischoff/1#video=xrdqr3


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Team WWF/Team Alliance is the greatest traditional match from SS imo


I think I'd agree with that. The atmosphere was superb. Obviously it's a shame we didn't get Sting/Goldberg/nWo etc going up against the WWF, but I enjoyed it.

Ones that run it close I'd say are:

Team Austin vs Team Bischoff - SS 03
Team HHH vs Team Orton - SS 04
Team Raw vs Team Smackdown - SS 05

Strangely, those are all ones that Orton won.

@Starbuck - I adore that poster.


----------



## The Big Boy (Mar 15, 2013)

Just wandered into this thread and read some great reviews that made me want to rewatch an awful lot of stuff once again. So, just so I feel like I contributed something, I'm gonna do a short review of a more obscure fun little match that I rewatched just today. 

*Fully Loaded 1998. - Big Van Vader vs. Mark Henry*​
Vader does his entrance shtick as energetic and stylised as usual followed by some classic J.R. one liners. Henry comes out, and he's jacked. And I mean, jacked. Forgot how muscular the guy was during his early days. J.R. follows it up by pimping Henry's recent accomplishments as the captain of 1996 olympic powerlifting team and his long standing affiliation with NoD. Henry's haircut is ridicilous.

They start it off with some classic big man strenght measuring. Henry slips a little bit after the second body block but manages to cover it up. lol. Big time Vader chants start as Vader pumps up the crowd with some taunts. He runs towards Henry, Henry tries to pick him up for a body slam and botches it hilariously. Does it at second attempt. Vader is visibly pissed. Henry delivers a quick and rather heavy elbow drop, which Vader no sells with a quick roll out of the ring and a loud "FUCK!" that echoed throughout the arena. Vader comes back in the ring. Henry runs towards him, so Vader stands still to take the hit. Henry seemingly gets confused mid run and decides to rather rest his head on Vader's shoulder, then follows it up with a super weak irish whip into the corner; another hilarious botch. 

Vader bounces off the ropes and Henry connects with a meaty shoulder block, Vader does a great bump. A gut kick by Henry, followed by a jumping axe handle. Another elbow drop by Henry. Random legdrop by Henry. At this point Vader looks like an absolute shit offense wise. No sells that legdrop anyway. Henry goes for a sunset flip, yes, a sunset flip, but Vader remains on his feet, delivering a big hip drop, followed by a splash. Vader finally looks like he's mounting some kind of a momentum, connecting with some shots in the corner. Henry sells it like shit. A corner splash by Vader and a huge short-arm lariat. Mark sells it well with some HBKesque leg twitching. Vader tosses him out of the ring and into the steel steps. More heavy shots by Vader and a bodyslam near the corner to set up the high spot. Van climbs the middle rope and delivers a splash, bouncing off Henry's body. Two count. Irish whip by Vader reversed into a snap powerslam by Henry. Henry seems undecided whether he should go for a pin or not. Opts for a splash instead. Three count, Mark Henry wins. 

Yet another horrible match by early Mark Henry, one that reminded me why I hated him with such gusto until his ECW champ run and the recent 2011-present stuff. And yet another match that testifies how badly Vince McMahon shat on Big Van Vader and screwed up his potentially legendary WWF stint.

**1/2* from me, and that's just because of my markdom for both guys, more so Vader. A horrible yet fun match with some comedy value.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Good review, Henry definitely become a better worker and performer later in his career.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Been working my way through all the HBK Mania matches I have access to. 19 and onwards. I'm up to 25 now. :mark: 

:hbk

Mr. Wrestlemania.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well he had 4 classics in a row, so yeah definetely Mr. Wrestlemania


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Well things are more varied than you might think. At least for me now that I've gone back and watched them all. I'm planning to do Taker next to determine who the true Mr. Wrestlemania is. These are the only 2 guys who really have a valid claim imo. The rest of the big guns are a bit too inconsistent or don't have long enough resumes. 

:hbk vs. :taker one more time!!!!!! 8*D


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I would Taker/Diesel over HBK/Hart at WM12, I don't know. It may just be my weird taste.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I only have Manias 16 to 28. The rest of them are tagged classics I think and I just never got around to buying them. I can only go on what I've got for the time being. If they release the new Mania dvd's in the UK I'll probably pick those up to complete the collection.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Ranking and rating the world heavyweight title matches from WM19 to WM28.


1. Triple H vs. Benoit vs. HBK - WM20 *(*****)*
2. Undertaker vs. Batista - WM23 *(****1/2)*
3. Undertaker vs. Edge - WM24 *(****1/4)*
4. Chris Jericho vs. Edge - WM26 *(***3/4)*
5. Triple H vs. Booker T - WM19 *(***1/2)*
6. Triple H vs. Batista - WM21 *(***1/4) (Massively Underrated)*
7. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Big Show - WM25 *(***)*
8. Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle vs. Randy Orton - WM22 *(**1/2)*
9. Alberto Del Rio vs. Edge - WM27 *(**)*
10. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - WM28 *(DUD)*


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Shawn Michaels WM star ratings (the matches that matter)

V Razor WM 10 ****1/4
V Nash WM 11 ***1/2
V Bret Hart WM 12 ****1/4
V Austin WM 12 ***1/4
V Jericho WM 19 ****1/2
V HHH V Benoit WM 20 ****1/2
V Angle WM 21 ****1/2
V Vince WM 22 ***1/2
V Cena WM 23 ****1/2
V Flair WM 24 ****
V Undertaker 25*****
V Undertaker 26 ****3/4

Undertaker WM star ratings (the matches that matter)

V Nash WM 12 ***
V Kane WM 14 ***3/4
V HHH WM 17 ***3/4
V Flair WM 18 ****
V Orton WM 21 ****
V Batista WM 23 ****1/4
V Edge WM 24 ****1/4
V Shawn Michaels WM 25 *****
V Shawn Michaels WM 26 ****3/4
V HHH WM 27 ****1/2
V HHH WM 28 ****1/2

I think Shawn just beats him by a hair. Undertaker however could overtake him by having a ****+ match with Punk this year.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Is anyone having a video of the Punk vs Cena number one contenders match for wm 29?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Here ya' go: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...punk-wwe-raw-25th-feb-2013_sport#.UUMsT9FsNCl


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

This is fucking awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RevolverSnake said:


> This is fucking awesome.


Those were my exact sentiments while watching. My current MOTY.


----------



## The Big Boy (Mar 15, 2013)

Best Cena match to date in my opinion. The one with Brock was in my opinion too one-sided and MitB against Punk was for me quite ruined with the botch galore on both sides, Russoesque finish and lack of clean win. 

But maybe, just maybe I would put one of the Cena's stuff with Umaga over this one. Would have to rewatch the Umaga matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection - Blu Ray Exclusives

**WWF Championship
*Yokozuna (c) vs. Bret Hart - *** 1/2
_White Plains, NY 11/29/1993_

Bret Hart & The British Bulldog vs. Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart - ***
_Albany, NY 10/19/1994

_Bret Hart vs. Hakushi - *** 1/2
_RAW 7/24/1995

_*WWF Championship
*Bret Hart (c) vs. Vader - **
_Friday Night's Main Event 8/29/1997_


- I loved just about every second of the Yoko match. I'm a big fan of the guy to begin with, think he's truly underrated considering how great of a bumper & seller he was for a man of his size. He really could make anyone look great and had some excellent matches with Bret & Savage during his title runs. That's beside the point though. Really well structured match with Yoko surviving an early flurry from Bret, then having a very lengthy control segment using every dirty trick in the book. Took the crowd out of it every chance he could get and when Bret finally did make the comeback he hit some big time moves. The finish is pretty weak (mainly because Fuji was so fucking old and had no strength to swing a bucket whatsoever) but the rest of the match is really great. The finish itself I believe is one of the things that sparked Owen's heel turn at the Rumble. This might be the longest Yoko match I've ever seen, going 20+ minutes (with commercial time of course).

- Tag match is pretty standard but still fun stuff. I always love that old trick when the face team gets the hot tag but the heel team is distracting the ref so he doesn't see it and doesn't allow it. Pretty clever finish to get a crowd reaction too.

- Another great match with Hakushi. This one's unlike anything else on the set, lots of high flying and big spots. Shinzaki puts on a great performance and wows the crowd, even as a heel. Really fun tv match.

- The low rating for Bret/Vader is only because it didn't get enough time to develop. For the time it gets it's still fun because it's VADER, but Bret could've chose something a little better for this slot. Kinda weird seeing Vader work as a face...

- In addition to the 4 extra matches, the Blu Ray exclusives also have a bunch more interview segments that are really enjoyable. You get to hear about stories like farting in Yokozuna's face, his mom ignoring Davey Boy's lifeless body, getting stranded with Owen, his dream opponents (won't spoil those but they sound great), & there's a cool piece about all his drawings. Really cool stuff all around.

*Overall Blu Ray Score: 9.25/10*​


----------



## The Big Boy (Mar 15, 2013)

I always said Shinzaki should've gone places in WWF. Unique and interesting gimmick, great heel work, amazing in the ring and buff as fuark. Seriously, in early 2000s I remember guy was build like a brick shithouse. He still is, even to this day, in his mid 40's.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wanna give Cena/Punk a re-watch, does that dailymotion link have the action during the commercials as well?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Big Boy said:


> I always said Shinzaki should've gone places in WWF. Unique and interesting gimmick, great heel work, amazing in the ring and buff as fuark. Seriously, in early 2000s I remember guy was build like a brick shithouse. He still is, even to this day, in his mid 40's.


Bret somewhat talks about that. Basically said the WWF didn't respect him enough to give him the push the Bret thought he deserved.



sharkboy22 said:


> I wanna give Cena/Punk a re-watch, does that dailymotion link have the action during the commercials as well?


Pretty sure it does. Goes 27 minutes so I assume so. They took the one down off of youtube I believe.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The RAW match this year between John Cena and CM Punk is the best match that happened on Monday Night RAW since 2001, and the best WWE TV match since Rey vs Eddie in 2005 to me. Seriously could end up being my MOTY if we have a 2007 esque year and everything goes out the window. Going to be one of those polarizing matches that the critics of Cena and Punk will say "LOL BOTCHED SPOTS" about before giving it two stars or something without knowing just what the hell they're talking about.

If the MITB, Summerslam, and NOC matches never happened and people didn't feel desensitized to these two putting off KILLER matches every few months then I would imagine that a majority of your casuals would rate it alot higher. It's in that high ***** 1/4* to low ***** 1/2* range for me honestly and could potentially wind up as a top 5 MOTY (I'm betting it will honestly). 

RAW matches I'd put above it ATM :

2MPT vs Canadians' tag

Matches I MIGHT have over it :

Bret vs 1-2-3 Kid
Bulldog vs Owen

Best RAW match from every year ? That would be interesting.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker with his no selling character in the early days definitely limited his performance/in-ring work, therefore limiting the amount of great matches he could have had.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> The RAW match this year between John Cena and CM Punk is the best match that happened on Monday Night RAW since 2001, and the best WWE TV match since Rey vs Eddie in 2005 to me. Seriously could end up being my MOTY if we have a 2007 esque year and everything goes out the window. Going to be one of those polarizing matches that the critics of Cena and Punk will say "LOL BOTCHED SPOTS" about before giving it two stars or something without knowing just what the hell they're talking about.
> 
> If the MITB, Summerslam, and NOC matches never happened and people didn't feel desensitized to these two putting off KILLER matches every few months then I would imagine that a majority of your casuals would rate it alot higher. It's in that high ***** 1/4* to low ***** 1/2* range for me honestly and could potentially wind up as a top 5 MOTY (I'm betting it will honestly).
> 
> ...


TLC IIII was spectacular for a RAW TV Match.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> The RAW match this year between John Cena and CM Punk is the best match that happened on Monday Night RAW since 2001, and the best WWE TV match since Rey vs Eddie in 2005 to me. Seriously could end up being my MOTY if we have a 2007 esque year and everything goes out the window. Going to be one of those polarizing matches that the critics of Cena and Punk will say "LOL BOTCHED SPOTS" about before giving it two stars or something without knowing just what the hell they're talking about.
> 
> If the MITB, Summerslam, and NOC matches never happened and people didn't feel desensitized to these two putting off KILLER matches every few months then I would imagine that a majority of your casuals would rate it alot higher. It's in that high ***** 1/4* to low ***** 1/2* range for me honestly and could potentially wind up as a top 5 MOTY (I'm betting it will honestly).
> 
> ...


Austin/Hunter vs Benoit/Jericho is THE best TV match ever, IMO. Glad people recognize its epicness.

I don't rate the Punk/Cena match as highly as you. I'd say 4 stars, personally. I admit it was a solid match, but I find Cena's no selling really aggravating to the point that it takes me out of the match. I mean, come on-Punk hits a kick to the head and his running knee into the corner, and then about 5 seconds later Cena hits the AA "OUT OF NOWHERE" (as Cole would say) and then dives on top of Punk and hooks the leg. Couldn't he have hit the AA and just keeled over, doing a race to the count of 10 to get up? He just acted as if the moves Punk had done did nothing, and that's a big problem to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best RAW match every year since it's inception (off the top of my head of course) :

1993 : Ric Flair vs Mr. Perfect (******)
1994 : Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid (***** 1/2*)
1995 : Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (*???*)
1996 : I want to saw HBK-Owen (haven't seen it in a while). 1996 was a terrible year for WWF TV matches.
1997 : Davey Boy vs Owen Hart (***** 1/2*)
1998 : Mick Foley vs Terry Funk (**** 1/2*)
1999 : No fucking idea what so ever.
2000 : HHH/Radicalz vs Rock/Too Cool/Rikishi/Cactus Jack (******)
2001 : HHH/Austin vs Benoit/Jericho (***** 3/4*)
2002 : Eddie Guerrero vs Rob Van Dam (***** 1/4*)
2003 : HHH vs Shawn Michaels (***** 1/4*)
2004 : Triple H vs Chris Benoit (******)
2005 : Triple H vs Chris Benoit (***** 1/4*)
2006 : Edge vs Ric Flair (******)
2007 : John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (******)
2008 : Again. No clue. Thinking HBK-Hardy.
2009 : John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (******)
2010 : Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler (******)
2011 : John Cena vs CM Punk (******)
2012 : CM Punk vs Mark Henry (******)
2013 : John Cena vs CM Punk (***** 1/2*)

So yeah, I'd definitely have Punk-Cena from this year in my top 4 RAW matches ever, quite comfortably.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Agree with the love for Two Man Power trip vs Jericho/Benoit. Fantastic. As for best Raw match per year, I'll have to do some thinking before getting back to you on that, KOK.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HBK/Benjamin whatever year that took place in. Yes.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> 2010 : Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler (******)


Which match are you referring to? Or are you sure you're not thinking of their match at Bragging Rights 2010 which was on PPV?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5myYM-6BUI

:bryan


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5myYM-6BUI
> 
> :bryan


Ah, I don't really remember this match. Might have to check it out later. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bryan and Ziggler have that chemistry that very few have in the WWE in the sense that every time they go out there it's going to be a great match. Dolph is like that with a few guys actually ; Sheamus, Bryan, Punk, even ORTON. Hate the fact that people are hating on DAT ZIG ZAG BAH GAWD when he's the fucking man and if Hell No vs Big E/DOLPH actually happens and we get Dolph-Bryan for 4-5 minutes then that match is going to be awesome.

Could you imagine if Dolph won the Tag Titles and the WHC the same night while AJ won the Divas title ? Come to think of it.... I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they did.

FUCK. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLPPPPPHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> HBK/Benjamin whatever year that took place in. Yes.


Is that the one where Shawn gave Benjamin that insane Sweet Chin Music in midair while Shelton was doing a springboard off the ropes?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KO Bossy said:


> Is that the one where Shawn gave Benjamin that insane Sweet Chin Music in midair while Shelton was doing a springboard off the ropes?


Yep, during the gold rush tournament. Great match and great episode of Raw, actually.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HE STEALS THE SHOW AND HE WANTS YOU TO KNOW IT.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KO Bossy said:


> Is that the one where Shawn gave Benjamin that insane Sweet Chin Music in midair while Shelton was doing a springboard off the ropes?


Yes, I believe it is.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Best RAW match every year since it's inception (off the top of my head of course) :
> 
> 1993 : Ric Flair vs Mr. Perfect (******)
> 1994 : Bret Hart vs 1-2-3 Kid (***** 1/2*)
> ...


I would put either 

Mankind vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - RAW 2/15/99 - Ladder Match
Undertaker vs. Austin (for the WWF Championship) - RAW after KOTR 

in that slot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That ladder match was garbage, needed more DOLPH.

HE'S HERE TO SHOW THE WORLD.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> That ladder match was garbage, needed more DOLPH.
> 
> HE'S HERE TO SHOW THE WORLD.


You gotta put something in there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Please, if this were 99 we'd already have an interracial sex angle with Big E and AJ while Dualshock and WashingtonD are sitting by their TV screens jerking off to the incoming ratings.

:russo


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ Vince Russo. I remember when I first heard about him and googling his name, I was crying from laughter just looking at his pictures. Something about him that screams COMEDY.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Why do some people get hard for ratings ?

I mean, however way you want to spin it, the truth is here ; most members of the IWC are just as bad if not worse than the retarded casuals you see on Tout, Facebook and Twitter rambling on about their nonsensical ideas about the product. Just because someone has access to a computer and thus has access to an internet Wrestling forum doesn't exactly mean you're a smark in any sense of the word and in most cases it's the opposite. I'm convinced that 99 percent of this forum are legally retarded sometimes with some of the shit I here browsing through this. 

Even this thread can be contaminated by morons every now and then but usually we drive them away once we start talking about things that actually make sense.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Bryan and Ziggler have that chemistry that very few have in the WWE in the sense that every time they go out there it's going to be a great match. Dolph is like that with a few guys actually ; Sheamus, Bryan, Punk, even ORTON.


Agreed.


KingOfKings said:


> and if Hell No vs Big E/DOLPH actually happens and we get Dolph-Bryan for 4-5 minutes then that match is going to be awesome.


It seems they may be heading in that direction. Personally, I'm not high on the match, I feel Big E shouldn't even win a title yet considering he hasn't even had a match on the main roster yet, and Ziggler doesn't need the Tag Titles when he's on the verge of becoming a World Champion. 

I feel it should be Bryan vs Kane, OR Bryan and Kane defending the titles against another team at Mania. Like Team Rhodes Scholars for example, or how about The New Age Outlaws? Wouldn't mind one final run for them as Champs, rather than a team like Ziggler and Big E that aren't really a team anyway, Big E's just Ziggler and AJ's bodyguard.


KingOfKings said:


> Could you imagine if Dolph won the Tag Titles and the WHC the same night while AJ won the Divas title ? Come to think of it.... I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they did.


In my opinion: 

Ziggler's chances of winning the World Title at Mania - very high
Ziggler's chances of winning the Tag Titles at Mania - unlikely 
AJ's chance of winning the Divas Title at Mania - very unlikely

I've read they want to do some multi diva match at Mania, or a mixed tag diva match which is not surprising at all. It's what they've done at Mania for years with the divas. There hasn't been a women's title match at WrestleMania since WM23.



KO Bossy said:


> Is that the one where Shawn gave Benjamin that insane Sweet Chin Music in midair while Shelton was doing a springboard off the ropes?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I wouldn't mind seeing Ziggler and Big E as tag champs. Obviously the tag straps have next to no value, but if he won the WHC while still holding them that would be good. I just want Ziggler to have all the gold, dammit!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fuck Big E and AJ. Let Ziggler do his thing on his own. Not thrilled about Hell No vs Big E/DOLPH. Would rather Hell No do something else, Ziggler cash in on whoever wins Swagger/ADR, and have Big E fuck off for good.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Meh, Big E isn't great but I'll give him a chance before I judge. I haven't seen any of him before his WWE run, so I'm yet to see him in an actual match. That's when the judging starts. Muahaha. Fuck his finishing move though. It's awful.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't mind Big E and AJ, but I'd rather Ziggler be on is own and prove himself that he can go it alone for once. But fuck the idea of Big E winning a title before he's even had a match on the main roster.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm puzzled as to why they feel the need to attach anchors to guys who are getting over. Daniel Bryan is getting over? Give him a shitty comedy gimmick and AJ. Ziggler is getting over? Give him AJ and this generic black dude.

Let these fucking guys work and be great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everything leads to AJ getting over. She must suck a good dick.

:vince


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Id take Ziiggler/Langston as tag team champions over Ziggler as HWC.
The SD main event scene is dreadful and Ziggler imo isn't gonna change that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Well Ziggler's going to be WHC soon anyway regardless, only a few more months on that contract left. We don't what Ziggler will be like as World Champion, so you don't know he might capture your interest. Daniel Bryan got most of the forum interested in his WHC reign, when he was doing nothing but jobbing left and right every week before winning the title, much like Ziggler.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Everything leads to AJ getting over. She must suck a good dick.
> 
> :vince


Lies, we all know Vinnie Mac only has eyes for the guys' muscles. Dudes like Ryback, Cena and whatnot-the truly jacked. He probably had many wet dreams about Lex Luger.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

All I know is Bryan better go back to being LEGIT and not a comedy jobber once Mania is over.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> All I know is Bryan better go back to being LEGIT and not a comedy jobber once Mania is over.


Agreed. I'm not sure whether he'll be face or heel but I don't care, as long as he gets a push.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

True. Ryback must suck a good dick.

:vince


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think you are blowing the Ryback thing out of proportion. It's not like he won the title and went over the entire main event scene Goldberg style. He lost his first match and after that they made the same mistake and put him in big match after big match while jobbing him out. The experiment is not doing very well at the moment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ryback shouldn't have been put in that feud with Punk. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant main eventing a PPV with the Best in the World.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

And to think they could of redeemed Ryback's credibility by having him win the Rumble, but instead they went with Cena. A guy who didn't NEED a Rumble win and he could of easily one a number one contenders match to challenge Rock for the title, whereas Ryback could of greatly benefited from a Rumble win after WWE destroyed him by having him job to Punk multiple times just to have Punk's reign extend to the rumble so The Rock could win it from him, and by having him get destroyed by The Shield all the time. For all the hate Ryback gets on this forum, I'd say there was a lot of people rooting for him when it came down to just him and Cena in the Rumble, but they don't want to admit it. They had a chance to build a new star, but instead they wen't with #sameoldshit Cena.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Ryback shouldn't have been put in that feud with Punk. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant main eventing a PPV with the Best in the World.


They needed a replacement and Ryback had momentum nothing wrong with that.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> They needed a replacement and Ryback had momentum nothing wrong with that.


 This. The biggest name that could have challenged Punk was Orton but he was involved in meaningless feuds with Ziggler and ADL.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Ryback shouldn't have been put in that feud with Punk. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant main eventing a PPV with the Best in the World.


+1

It was HILARIOUSLY bad how they used Maddox to book themselves out of a corner and then promptly threw him away since he'd served his purpose. That is just the epitome of lazy writing. I'd almost have preferred if they wrote in that aliens came down and abducted Ryback. It would have made about as much sense-this Maddox thing came out of left field and was used totally for convenience sake.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Ryback shouldn't have been put in that feud with Punk. He has done absolutely nothing to warrant main eventing a PPV with the Best in the World.


They were riding off the momentum he had been picking up with the "Feed Me More" chants and squash matches used to build him up for months. If Cena didn't need surgery we would have gotten Punk vs. Cena inside Hell In A Cell instead.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Nostalgia said:


> Well Ziggler's going to be WHC soon anyway regardless, only a few more months on that contract left. We don't what Ziggler will be like as World Champion, so you don't know he might capture your interest. Daniel Bryan got most of the forum interested in his WHC reign, when he was doing nothing but jobbing left and right every week before winning the title, much like Ziggler.


Don't see that happening.



The Lady Killer said:


> All I know is Bryan better go back to being LEGIT and not a comedy jobber once Mania is over.


I just want him to become a fixture in the WWE Title scene, I'd rather him feud with Cena after WM than Punk again.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> And to think they could of redeemed Ryback's credibility by having him win the Rumble, but instead they went with Cena. A guy who didn't NEED a Rumble win and he could of easily one a number one contenders match to challenge Rock for the title, whereas Ryback could of greatly benefited from a Rumble win after WWE destroyed him by having him job to Punk multiple times just to have Punk's reign extend to the rumble so The Rock could win it from him, and by having him get destroyed by The Shield all the time. For all the hate Ryback gets on this forum, I'd say there was a lot of people rooting for him when it came down to just him and Cena in the Rumble, but they don't want to admit it. They had a chance to build a new star, but instead they wen't with #sameoldshit Cena.


Of course I was pulling for Ryback. Like...nobody wanted to see Cena win to get Rematchmania. Won't deny that at all. However his main event push was WAY too soon.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ryback/Punk made sense back then


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

They needed a replacement for Cena when he got injured, and as Ryback at the time was getting over much quicker than they expected, they ran with that momentum. And the Ryback/Punk feud helped Ryback get even more over, but then jobbing out over multiple PPV's and having The Shield destroy him every week killed his aura and his appeal and his overness really took a hit. He hardly gets much of a reaction now, when he was getting one of the biggest reactions in the company when he was feuding with Punk:

0:35








KO Bossy said:


> Of course I was pulling for Ryback. Like...nobody wanted to see Cena win to get Rematchmania. Won't deny that at all. However his main event push was WAY too soon.


It was, but it wasn't supposed to happen if Cena didn't get injured. I think Ryback should of took the IC Title from The Miz. 

Remember this segment? 4:00






Many thought that would setup a Ryback/Miz feud at the time with the idea of Ryback winning the belt and and have a long reign with the belt and continuing that slow and steady build up to the ranks that he was getting at the time, but then Cena got injured and they panicked and went with Ryback.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In no way, shape or form should anybody's first real feud be for the WWE Championship. They booked themselves into a corner where they needed to sabotage Ryback's momentum or have Punk drop the belt, something they obviously couldn't do at that point. 

These baffling booking decisions blow my mind. They should have just had Punk vs Orton honestly, somebody with credibility who was just floating around with Del Rio at the time, I can't fucking believe they didn't do it when the chance was RIGHT THERE.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KO Bossy said:


> +1
> 
> It was HILARIOUSLY bad how they used Maddox to book themselves out of a corner and then promptly threw him away since he'd served his purpose. That is just the epitome of lazy writing. I'd almost have preferred if they wrote in that aliens came down and abducted Ryback. It would have made about as much sense-this Maddox thing came out of left field and was used totally for convenience sake.


 At first it wasn't so bad, it kept the title reign going and Ryback's credibility wasn't damaged. Looking back at it now, it made no sense because Maddox jobbed to Ryback in the next month and they introduced the Colin Delaney type storyline. Maddox wasn't really developed.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> They needed a replacement for Cena when he got injured, and as Ryback at the time was getting over much quicker than they expected, they ran with that momentum. And the Ryback/Punk feud helped Ryback get even more over, but then jobbing out over multiple PPV's and having The Shield destroy him every week killed his aura and his appeal and his overness really took a hit. He hardly gets much of a reaction now, when he was getting one of the biggest reactions in the company when he was feuding with Punk:
> 
> 0:35


He wasn't established enough to be able to sustain those losses while keeping his momentum alive. If they didn't want to have Punk lose, but also not have Ryback lose, why not just keep them apart? That's always an option, and its what I'd have done.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> At first it wasn't so bad, it kept the title reign going and Ryback's credibility wasn't damaged. Looking back at it now, it made no sense because Maddox jobbed to Ryback in the next month and they introduced the Colin Delaney type storyline. Maddox wasn't really developed.


When it first happened, it wasn't...atrocious at least. Once Ryback destroyed him and he went away for the most part, then it became a lot more insulting because it showed they pulled something nonsensical and random out of their asses just to write themselves out of a corner, but expected the fans to buy it.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Ryback losing in the cell didn't kill his momentum it was everything that has happened after the Royal Rumble.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> He wasn't established enough to be able to sustain those losses while keeping his momentum alive. If they didn't want to have Punk lose, but also not have Ryback lose, why not just keep them apart? That's always an option, and its what I'd have done.


Exactly. I think they just panicked and ran with a guy who was hot at the time, but they backed themselves into a corner with the booking. They could of gone with someone like Orton like KOK said, I mean it didn't really matter that much who it was, Punk was obviously winning, Punk's title defenses after RAW 1000 were just filler so Rock could take the title at the Rumble.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The company's current top babyfaces (full time, of course) :

John Cena
Sheamus
Randy Orton
Ryback
Alberto Del Rio

Those five are literally the only five faces that mean jack shit in the company, while Orton hasn't had consistent direction in about a billion years and is probably going heel sooner than later. Del Rio and Ryback SUCK while Cena and Sheamus have insufferable characters.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Why do some people get hard for ratings ?
> 
> I mean, however way you want to spin it, the truth is here ; most members of the IWC are just as bad if not worse than the retarded casuals you see on Tout, Facebook and Twitter rambling on about their nonsensical ideas about the product. Just because someone has access to a computer and thus has access to an internet Wrestling forum doesn't exactly mean you're a smark in any sense of the word and in most cases it's the opposite. I'm convinced that 99 percent of this forum are legally retarded sometimes with some of the shit I here browsing through this.
> 
> Even this thread can be contaminated by morons every now and then but usually we drive them away once we start talking about things that actually make sense.


I would love to try and explain to you the ratings thing but I still have trouble with it myself. I guess I'd try to equate it to the way people follow the front offices of a sports team they like, but even then I don't think that completely makes sense. Most of it is "I don't like this person but instead of letting people have their opinions or making a good argument, here's a random number from a monday in 1998 to do the talking" :side:



MoveMent said:


> Ryback losing in the cell didn't kill his momentum it was everything that has happened after the Royal Rumble.


Agreed.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I would love to try and explain to you the ratings thing but I still have trouble with it myself. I guess I'd try to equate it to the way people follow the front offices of a sports team they like, but even then I don't think that completely makes sense. Most of it is "I don't like this person but instead of letting people have their opinions or making a good argument, here's a random number from a monday in 1998 to do the talking" :side:


I remember when you made that funny comment about ratings that ended up getting sigged by another member, think it wen't something like: ''brb, going to watch someone draw, fuck the matches I'll just watch them sell the tickets''. :lol


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

MoveMent said:


> Ryback losing in the cell didn't kill his momentum it was everything that has happened after the Royal Rumble.


I disagree. Booking him to be the Shield's bitch (and continuing to do it) and not being able to win any big matches just made him look like more of a chump before then. That literally killed his aura.

Ryback could of been so easy to book but WWE just had to make things more complicated than they were.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> Ryback losing in the cell didn't kill his momentum it was everything that has happened after the Royal Rumble.





Nostalgia said:


> I remember when you made that funny comment about ratings that ended up getting sigged by another member, think it wen't something like: ''brb, going to watch someone draw, fuck the matches I'll just watch them sell the tickets''. :lol


I had just purchased the "greatest draws of all time" DVD with exclusive blu-ray extras of the fans standing in line at the ticket booths. Also live Nielsen rating results as they come in fresh from the network. :side:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Okay, time for the one of the worst Wrestlemanias rated match-by-match:

:vince5 WELCOOOOOME TO RUSSLEMANIAAAAAAAAA NIIIIIIINE!!! FROM LAS VEGAS......NUHVUHDA!!!!

*Intercontinental Title: Tatanka vs. Shawn Michaels (c)*
Decent opening match if a little slow. Luna Vachon makes her WWF debut, in the corner of Shawn Michaels (for NO reason. Seriously, this made zero sense). Sherri also made her return. Screwy finish with Tatanka winning by countout (BLEH). Afterwards, Luna viciously attacks Sherri. They would go on to have a heated rivalry aft...oops, no they didn't. Just totally forgotten about.
**1/2

*The Headshrinkers vs. The Steiners*
This match is best remembered for a SICK bump that Scotty Steiner takes after Headshrinkers pull the top rope down and he lands head first onto the floor. I loved the Headshrinkers as a team, thought they were treated pretty shabbily. Very good finish, and probably the best match on the card.
***1/4

*Doink vs. Crush*
HEEL DOINK! YES! His persona was exceptionally played by Matt Bourne, such a great heel, and his music kicked ass. This rivalry had been going on forever. Crush basically destroys Doink for almost ten minutes and locks on the dreaded HEAD VICE until another Doink enters and they both perform the beatdown. Another screwy finish. The fake Doink is in actual fake Steve Keirn, who had just finished his Skinner gimmick.
*3/4

*Razor Ramon vs. Bob Backlund*
You have a former WWF Champion coming off the back of arguably the greatest Royal Rumble performance of all time, and a heel who is so over that he's getting cheers. Solution? Fuck it, put them against each other! Crowd didn't care a jot. These guys could've been used so much better on the card. Razor wins by beating Backlund at his own game.
*1/2

*WWF Tag Team Championship: Money Inc. (c) vs. The Mega Maniacs*
Mega Maniacs are of course the excruciating pairing of Hogan and his sychophantic bag carrier Brutus Beefcake. Brutus wearing his 'titanium' face mask due to injury suffered at the hands of Dibiase and Irwin. Hogan sporting a _nasty_ eye injury after having an accident in the gym. Decent match with Money Inc. walking off, but then the ref changes the rules and says that if they get counted out they lose the belts. Another screwy finish with ref getting knocked out and Money Inc. winning by DQ. Afterwards, Hogan, Brutus and Jimmy Hart 'celebrate' in the ring for about 500 MILLION HOURS. 
**

*Lex Luger vs. Mr. Perfect*
Lex Luger is the NAH-SISS-IST, with a bevvy of beauties by his side. Back and forth match with nothing much of note. Match ends when Luger pins Perfect but his feet are on the ropes. Perfect complains to the ref but then gets knocked out by Luger and his BIONIC FOREARM OF DOOM. Afterwards, Perfect is groggy and trudges to the back looking for Luger, but ends up brawling with Shawn Michaels. Brawl was the best part of the angle.
**1/4

*The Undertaker vs. The Giant Gonzalez*
Oh boy. Undertaker a shitload of sucky opponents at Mania in the 90s. Gonzalez debuted at the Royal Rumble by destroying our favourite dead man, and now the two meet here. The match absolutely _hummed_, and not because of The Undertaker. Match ends via ANOTHER DISQUALIFICATION when Gonzalez kills The Undertaker by suffocating him with deadly nightshade or whatever the fuck it is. Gonzalez then chokeslams BILL ALFONSO. Yes, FONZIE of ECW fame. Undertaker comes back from the dead and they have a weak brawl and oh who cares.
1/2*

*WWF Championship: Bret Hart (c) vs. Yokozuna*
Yoko was absolutely pushed to the moon, seeing as he had only debuted six months prior to this. McMahon was looking for his next monster heel and wasted no time. Match is disappointing despite Bret's best efforts, and the match is barely eight minutes old when Bret Hart 'locks' on the sharpshooter but Fuji throws the DREADED SALT into the eyes of Bret and Yoko rolls him up to become the NEW WWF CHAMPION. Yokozuna gassed horribly early on so this match was very short for a WM main event. Afterwards, Hogan comes out to explain to the ref what happened, but the ref is like 'gah, fuck this shit', and Fuji being the STUPID CUNT he is, makes a challenge to Hogan even though Yoko can barely fucking stand the poor sod. Which leads to...
**

*WWF Championship: Yokozuna(c) vs. 'THE MIGHTY THE IMMORTAL' Hulk Hogan*
Hogan throws salt into the eyes of Yoko, knocks out Fuji, legdrops Yokozuna and pins him 1, 2, 3 thank you fuck you good night. ATROCIOUS. Crowd of course goes apeshit because they're IDIOTS. The horrible orange cunt then celebrates and the world is saved from THE JAP (his exact words!). Horrible.
DUD

1/10​


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It's funny because WM IX actually starts off with a little bit of promise and then never goes back. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin will LOVE the following.

*CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank 2012)*

- I've been bashing the fuck out of this match for the longest time and now, I decided to give the long overdue rewatch to see if it's really as bad as I recall it being. The story was one of the main detractions for me as they overdid it with AJ and the love triangle thing (at least Kane was removed from it now) by putting more focus on her than the damn championship that's on the line. I actually enjoyed the first 15 or so minutes very much. Their fighting comes together a lot more naturally and doesn't feel like a forced attempt at a submission contest like their Over the Limit match, and Bryan in particular does everything best way possible. Still gotta say Punk is a terrible brawler as his chops look like that of a child's (plus a shitty uppercut) and his Suicide Dive is way too basic with ZERO intensity. That aside, the ring action is solid and then 5 minutes into it, AJ takes a bump and is helped to the back with a regular referee replacing her. The action picks up from this point and only gets better with the spots (including weapons and their signature moves) being worked into the match pretty well and the counters plus everything else just click together. Their use of weapons is not overdone and they look equally strong.

But then things take a turn for the worse 15 minutes into it as AJ comes back and the match shifts focus from the actual ring action to AJ and the amount of focus on her just kills this part of the match for me. Every other minute, they have her tease bias towards one or the other and then after a 2 count, there's usually a staredown until a surprise roll-up or something. Not as annoying as I recall it being but still takes away from the match. The intensity picks up with weapon use being more frequent and even finishers being hit. One of my least favorite parts comes with Daniel Bryan locking in the LeBell Lock, though. He gets it synched in and even reaches a kendo-stick which is utilized for more leverage but Punk just no sells the damn thing and lays there for about 30 seconds and instead of reaching the ropes or something, he takes the damn stick and frees his way out with it. I think this damaged the move's reputation a fair bit. After that, I also hate the finish. The table is set-up near the turnbuckles and Punk tries to Elbow Drop his way into Bryan through the table but Bryan escapes and after some struggle, Punk manages to avoid a Superplex (which the camera misses by focusing on AJ instead) and then he gets back up and does a Back Suplex through the table which is the final 3 count. Underwhelming finish and a very inconsistent match that starts off great but goes downhill halway through with AJ taking the spotlight too much and Bryan's finisher being weakened. Actually a good match I say, certainly not TERRIBLE but could have been better. ★★★



Pierre McDunk said:


> I would love to try and explain to you the ratings thing but I still have trouble with it myself. I guess I'd try to equate it to the way people follow the front offices of a sports team they like, but even then I don't think that completely makes sense. Most of it is "I don't like this person but instead of letting people have their opinions or making a good argument, here's a random number from a monday in 1998 to do the talking" :side:


I don't think using facts has anything to do with "having opinions". I don't care about them that much since the past few months but it's always nice to see Punk do terrible numbers just because the reaction of his marks is always worth a laugh, and it can be used as a justification for why somebody you dislike shouldn't be pushed.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> It's funny because WM IX actually starts off with a little bit of promise and then never goes back. :lmao


Yeah, first two matches were pretty good but the shit set in from the Doink/Crush match. FOUR DQ finishes out of eight matches (fuck Hogan/Yoko).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I had just purchased the "greatest draws of all time" DVD with exclusive blu-ray extras of the fans standing in line at the ticket booths. Also live Nielsen rating results as they come in fresh from the network. :side:


Don't tell the Rock marks that, you'll be bombarded with PM's asking you where you got the DVD from :lol


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

The "ratings" marks just get added to the ignore list along with the fanboys and haters.
Good way to tell if a discussion is about to go down the shitter if you spot their name, C2D being a great example.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starting the 3rd disc of the FCA DVD right now. Haven't watched HBK/Trips in years but I've gotta say that JR is making this match far more enjoyable.

Edit: Jason Giambi reference. I feel old as fuck now.

Edit2: This match is so goddamn long. But still doesn't feel as long as the HIAC.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rewatched Triple H/Undertaker from WM 27 just now. Got the original PPV broadcast so i've got Trip's Metalica song and "Ain't no Grave" for Taker's entrance which is truly amazing.

Anyways to the match.

I think it's just the definition of awesome. It's two of the absolute best the E has ever had in that ring going at it at the biggest show of the year. You don't get bigger than that. The story of Triple H doing _everything_ that he possibly could think of to break the streak is beautifully played out with 3 pedigrees not working, even Taker's own Tombstone not working and eventually resorting to the sledgehammer which turns out to be his downfall when Taker locks in the Hell's Gate. Holey fuck Trips is locked in for a long damn time.

I haven't seen this much passion and storytelling in a match for a long time. I honestly don't know if this is a better match than the HIAC the next year but i can say i _enjoyed_ this match a lot more than WM 28.

Loved it. *****1/2*


----------



## The Big Boy (Mar 15, 2013)

Do these people have some kind of a ticket stub fetish? Are they getting a slice of that sweet sweet Vinnie Mac pie? I just don't get it, what's the reasoning behind the ratings thing if you're just a fan?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM V review in my BLOG~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Rewatched Triple H/Undertaker from WM 27 just now. Got the original PPV broadcast so i've got Trip's Metalica song and "Ain't no Grave" for Taker's entrance which is truly amazing.
> 
> Anyways to the match.
> 
> ...


I've said it before and I'll say it again, Takers' selling in that match is Oscar worthy IMHO.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good review Ever Wolf, top match that's for sure. (Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I haven't watched Punk/Bryan from MITB since it aired, but I didn't enjoy it much. Wouldn't go any higher than Choke2Death's rating on it personally. AJ REALLY brought down the match, her whole presence in the feud was just awful. Without AJ, and it's just two great wrestlers trying to prove who's the best, it produced the classic they had at Over The Limit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I thought they could have used AJ so much better in the match. I don't think her involvement in the feud was bad, but I didn't like her involvement in the match much. Still enjoyed it quite a bit though. Just not nearly at the level of the OTL match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I really enjoyed their Over The Limit match. Was my MOTY for most of the year until Hell No and Ryback vs The Shield happened. I watched that TLC match like 7 times and enjoyed is so much on each watch. Both matches featuring Daniel Bryan, and as much as I don't like his character, he really brings it in the ring when he's not being restricted. Shame that most of his TV matches he's restricted to just kicks and a few other moves.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That TLC match was so fucking amazing. I was very worried about the way they'd handle it considering it's a match using ladders with nothing hanging above the ring. They did it perfectly. That match came in second for me after the OTL one, but I got it at ****1/2.

I'd say the longer the match, the more diversity we get to see in Bryan's moveset.

In other news, going to a houseshow tomorrow at the Dunkin Donuts Center in RI. Hoping there's some kind of surprise since it's close to WM and it's in a fairly big place, but Punk, Ziggler and Cesaro are supposed to be there and that's all I need. 

Sadly Miz is going to be there though. Hopefully it's Miz/Henry or something. :side:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MITB match was good, I have it around what C2D has it at, although it's obviously nowhere near the classic level of their OTL match. Still have it at the full 5 and still firmly as my MOTY, with the Shield/Ryback and Team Hell No TLC match coming in at number 2. Two amazing matches for totally different reasons... both have Bryan in it though and he was arguably the MVP of the TLC match... hell, Bryan's also in my third best MOTY 2012 against Sheamus. He also has two matches in my top 5 this year so far. Man is a untouchable by anyone else in WWE right now in-ring wise when they give him the opportunity to have a meaningful match. He gives pretty much anyone he faces (and given enough time) their best match. Punk, Sheamus, Barrett, and Miz are all perfect examples.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> That TLC match was so fucking amazing. I was very worried about the way they'd handle it considering it's a match using ladders with nothing hanging above the ring. They did it perfectly. That match came in second for me after the OTL one, but I got it at ****1/2.
> 
> I'd say the longer the match, the more diversity we get to see in Bryan's moveset.
> 
> ...


Everything in that match was just great, and everybody played their roles well. Even Ryback for all the hate he gets, was needed for the big power moves to keep the faces in the match, and he made a good comeback after he got up from that table. The Shield were the stars of the match though and they became made in that match. 

I think the fact that Punk and Bryan are good friends and they obviously have the chemistry there, enabled them to go more all out and use many moves they wouldn't normally use, it was a great sight to see. 

Lucky. Never been to a WWE show before. :side: Report on Ziggler for me. (Y)


----------



## N2mjusschillin (Mar 10, 2013)

anybody review the best of nitro part 2? i'm sure it's been done and i just missed it.....what did ya'll think?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I guess what made me hate Bryan/Punk from MITB at first was because I kept hoping for Bryan to win and despite everything he gave, Punk just kept kicking out/escaping without losing and I was furious because I was ready for Bryan as WWE Champion. Now in retrospect, it wasn't even that bad. And the ring work was a lot cleaner than OTL where they tried a bit too hard to make it a submission contest just to show off how technical they are.

Funny how the 6-man TLC match is being discussed as I have it open on another tab and am about to watch it at last. Should be great.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan was fucking awesome in 2012.

Sincerely hope he gains some momentum as a singles star after Mania. Would love to see a few more high-profile gems on PPV. He's still over as fuck, despite being bogged down in a stale tag team for the past x months.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bryan/Cena needs to happen on PPV.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan challenging Cena for the title on PPV would be super.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Count me in on the "Bryan needs to go solo and have good feuds" gang. The reason I'm so indifferent to him right now is because they keep jobbing him out in shitty short matches and comedy tag team nonsense.

Bryan vs Cena and Bryan vs Orton on PPV... :mark: I would also expect Bryan vs Del Rio and Bryan vs Sheamus (_again_) to rule in a lengthy PPV match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/Cena program could be fucking fantastic.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Bryan/Cena is a feud I'm begging for this year. I'm expecting Cena to hold the title for a while, and hopefully Bryan can get a good push. There's no reason it can't happen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Have they had any prior matches? I feel that they've wrestled on TV but I don't recall when.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Have they had any prior matches? I feel that they've wrestled on TV but I don't recall when.


They main evented Raw once over the summer but I can't remember the date. Was a very good match though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Anyone think Cena will have a long reign after he wins the title at Mania? Considering this redemption storyline of his and the fact Cena hasn't held the title in nearly two years. If he does, they'll need to be some filler feuds, and Cena/Bryan could be one of those. They'll need to build up Bryan again because he has no credibility at the moment with all the comedy shit and jobbing every week.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Anyone think Cena will have a long reign after he wins the title at Mania? Considering this redemption storyline of his and the fact Cena hasn't held the title in nearly two years. If he does, they'll need to be some filler feuds, and Cena/Bryan could be one of those. They'll need to build up Bryan again because he has no credibility at the moment with all the comedy shit and jobbing every week.


Yeah, I'm expecting a long reign. Depending on how long, I can see feuds happening with Bryan, Ryback, Sheamus, Big Show and Bryan. Maybe a few more, it depends how long they last.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Please not Cena/Show again. Had enough of that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Bryan challenging Cena for the title on PPV would be super.


Amen to that, I just want Bryan to be more 'serious' again and get back in the main picture, being stuck with his current gimmick seems to affect what type of match he has too, which apart from a couple of occasions, like the TLC match, has been detrimental imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Please not Cena/Show again. Had enough of that.


I agree, but it's a feud they love with the ol' 'Cena can pick Show up!' schtick.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Please not Cena/Show again. Had enough of that.


Agreed.

Would enjoy: Cena/Bryan, Cena/Punk, Cena/Henry, Cena/Cesaro, Cena/Sheamus, Cena/Shield.

Have Cena and Jericho had a feud since the one in 05?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh yeah, Cena/Henry will definitely happen. 

Cena/Jericho feuded briefly over the WHC in late 2008. They had matches at SS and Armageddon.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wow I don't remember that at all. Any good?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Not really. Y2J held the title but Cena simply returned after a few months out and took it off him. If I recall their Armageddon match was a little better. Nothing to write home about though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only seen Survivor Series and I think it was a solid match. Cena title defenses/feuds I'd love to see if he has a long run:

- Bryan (first and foremost!)
- Sheamus
- Ryback
- Jericho (if he's around)
- Orton (some will hate it but I'm all for it again)
- Punk (making him submit to the STF! FUCK YEAH!)
- Henry


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

It would be great to see a Cena/Christian feud, renew their great stuff from 2005, but we all know that's not going to happen. :side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Falls Count Anywhere Disc 3

HBK vs Triple H - Summerslam '02 - ***1/2
Triple H vs Kevin Nash - Insurrextion '03 - **1/2
Mickie James vs Melina - Raw '07 - 1/2*
Triple H vs Umaga - Cyber Sunday '07 - ****
John Cena vs Umaga - Raw '08 - ***1/4
Legacy vs DX - Breaking Point '09 - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio vs Batista - Smackdown '09 - **
Cody Rhodes vs Randy Orton - Smackdown '11 - ****

Overall this was a very fun disc.

- HBK/Trips went down quite a bit for me. Last time I watched it years ago I had it around ****1/2.

- HHH/Nash was fun, the Flair/HBK stuff was great. Just didn't care for the match.

- Divas match was lol.

- Trips vs Umaga and Cena vs Umaga were both great but my god Trips/Umaga owned. Just tons of brutality in that one. 

- I absolutely love the Legacy/DX match. So much going on and it really made you think Legacy could hang with them. The divide and conquer strategy that dominated the feud was well done. The double submission was a nice way to end it too.

- Rey/Batista just seemed overly squash-like. Just didn't care about it.

- Orton/Rhodes gets better and better every time. Another match that made Cody looks like he was on the level of someone higher than him. The breaking of the mask was symbolic, Cody's angry streak halfway through was epic and I thought the ending was fine.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I maintain that if they wish to pursue a Rollins face turn and build to Ambrose/Rollins at Wrestlemania 30 then Cena/Rollins on PPV in a sub 20 minute match could be really good, both as an actual match and storyline developer. Rollins shined in that role back in ROH when he took on Nigel in a heel/heel match and eventually grew into a breakaway face character & Cena is great in these big time main events and would almost certainly work a match that would get Rollins over. 

Really given how long its been since Cena's last reign as well as the emergence/development of guys like Henry, Sheamus, Bryan & Punk there's potential for a really great reign on Cena's part. He's got the Punk feud which is being presented as something they can always return to with the right build, Henry would make for a fresh feud and could fill the void of Umaga from '07 and Sheamus represents a better alternative to Ryback in terms of repeating Cena/Lashley or heck Cena/Orton from '07. A Bryan match would be terrific although I'm struggling to see how they can build to that depending on the length and direction they take with Cena's reign.

I still mainly want something akin to a War Games match with The Shield involved. This is the first time in forever a heel group has been handled with care and presented in a manner that could lead to some interesting future feuds and stories and they're missing a golden opportunity if they don't think about running either War Games or a Gauntlet/10 Man Elimination. The only issue is Survivor Series represents the best place to book the match and that comes one month after HIAC, which of course would lessen the impact of any War Games match they could book. Cena/Sheamus/Bryan/Rock/HHH vs Shield/Lesnar/Punk if they could book it or something close to that could be a scintillating feud.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I really don't get the love for the Shield vs Ryback and co TLC match. Nowhere near moty.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I only want to see Cena/Ambrose, Cena/Bryan or Cena/Punk


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

If Cena has another feud with Punk, then that'd be the perfect time for Cena to conclude their feud by finally beating him clean on PPV and allowing Punk to take an extended break. The guy needs a rest.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

I must say that I enjoy this thread. Much more...civil than most others, you can express your opinions and not get shat on like...pretty well everywhere else. Very tranquil and accepting mood. I can see why you guys hang out here.

Also, I wouldn't mind a Bryan main event program this year but only if he ditches his current character. I cannot STAND it, I just find him so obnoxious.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> If Cena has another feud with Punk, then that'd be the perfect time for Cena to conclude their feud by finally beating him clean on PPV and allowing Punk to take an extended break. The guy needs a rest.


Funny, because I think Cena needs a break a bit more. For his health and my sanity.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Both Punk&Cena need a break


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Punk needs a break more than cena. Aside from mysterio and Orton, punk is the most fragile guy on the roster.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Bryan could perhaps turn into the legitimate heel everyone craves for by being the man who finally ends Kane's wrestling career? Let's face it, Kane isn't going to be involved in any high profile feuds any more and he has had such a legendary WWE run that he needs to go out with a bang, not by fading him out like some jobber. Giving someone like his ex-tag team partner the honour of retiring him would do wonders for Bryan.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Didn't Punk tell Ariel Helwani that he will probably take a break after Wrestlemania?


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

KO Bossy said:


> Funny, because I think Cena needs a break a bit more. For his health and my sanity.


Yeah I would've said that Cena needs a break more (which he does to be fair)...however...

:vince5 NOT ON MY WATCH, DAMMIT!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just thought some of you might like to see this; Danielson against a young, shorthaired, no-joke, greenasgooseshit Yoshi Tatsu from 2004. 






Don't ask how I stumbled across it, I just did. :side:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Bryan could perhaps turn into the legitimate heel everyone craves for by being the man who finally ends Kane's wrestling career? Let's face it, Kane isn't going to be involved in any high profile feuds any more and he has had such a legendary WWE run that he needs to go out with a bang, not by fading him out like some jobber. Giving someone like his ex-tag team partner the honour of retiring him would do wonders for Bryan.




No. First.off

1. Bryan NEEDS to go face. He's still very over with the crowd. Why turn him heel?

2. Kane is still the best full time 40+ year old they have on the roster. And still very over with the crowd face or heel.

3. Kane says he has a few more years left in him. I think a guy like Dean Ambrose should take those honors. He has that somewhat dark type character that would go well with a fued with Kane.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Bryan could perhaps turn into the legitimate heel everyone craves for by being the man who finally ends Kane's wrestling career? Let's face it, Kane isn't going to be involved in any high profile feuds any more and he has had such a legendary WWE run that he needs to go out with a bang, not by fading him out like some jobber. Giving someone like his ex-tag team partner the honour of retiring him would do wonders for Bryan.


This is an interesting option, for sure. I'm not sure whether I'd like to see Bryan as a face or a heel after the Team Hell No break up. He can pull off both though so I'll enjoy what he does either way.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> No. First.off
> 
> 1. Bryan NEEDS to go face. He's still very over with the crowd. Why turn him heel?
> 
> ...


The scenario I envisaged would hopefully be played in the next couple of years. I wasn't talking about this summer or anything.

I think a heel run would do Bryan good. It'd be a good transition from him being the goofy face he is now, to a savage, crazy heel (to give off the impression that he's a cold hearted bastard to the casuals), and then afterwards he would mould into the character of a badass babyface, a bit like Ken Shamrock from 1997.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> The scenario I envisaged would hopefully be played in the next couple of years. I wasn't talking about this summer or anything.
> 
> I think a heel run would do Bryan good. It'd be a good transition from him being the goofy face he is now, to a savage, crazy heel (to give off the impression that he's a cold hearted bastard to the casuals), and then afterwards he would mould into the character of a badass babyface, a bit like Ken Shamrock from 1997.




Oh ok. We'll see. I've always wondered how Kane would go out. It will be big when he retires, but not a HBK, Taker, flair type big. I see Kane getting a edge type tribute or something like that


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll be sad when Kane retires. Never been one of my top favourites but I've always liked him and respected him greatly. You never hear a bad word said about Kane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Wow I don't remember that at all. Any good?


both Cena vs Jericho matches from late 2008 are excellent. Watch them asap.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> both Cena vs Jericho matches from late 2008 are excellent. Watch them asap.


Really? From what I remember they were average. My mind has fooled me before though. I might go back and watch them then.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Best Jericho/Cena match was summerslam 05 IMO. 

****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah they're wonderful. Loved how each match was worked in two distinct ways: Survivor Series was long, grueling, intricate, & everything needed to associate all the right factors of a story that had nearly no heat behind it - IE Cena's return vs Jericho's prior dominance. Done very, very well. Armageddon was the complete opposite of work where they went at it balls to the wall fast. Non-stop action, pulse pounding near falls & transitions. I know some didn't like how Jericho submitted so quickly; Never bothered me much b/c the rest of the match was worked so well.

**** for both on my memory. I'll get onto watching the Survivor Series match in a few days as I'll finally have it on DVD. (Y)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh right, sounds great. I don't know what I'm remembering then. I'll look both those up and post my thoughts on them. Thanks, Hayley. (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I probably should rewatch the Cena/Jericho 2008 series as well, but from what I remember, I was not a big fan of the Survivor Series match (and the PPV for that matter). I just could not buy Cena as a babyface in that match for whatever reason. I liked the Armageddon 2008 match better, but it was far too short in my opinion. Great pacing and lots of fun sequences though. Their 2005 series was much better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Their RAW matches from 2009 _(had two iirc)_ & from 2010 might be on par with their PPV matches/You're fired match. Or they could be carbon copies. I'd have to review em over. Point being here I don't think the two had a bad match vs each other. All got a good portion of time and more than gave the fans something to talk about. Their chemistry seems to be forgotten when talking about who matches up well with either Cena or Jericho.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> I must say that I enjoy this thread. Much more...civil than most others, you can express your opinions and not get shat on like...pretty well everywhere else. Very tranquil and accepting mood. I can see why you guys hang out here.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't mind a Bryan main event program this year but only if he ditches his current character. I cannot STAND it, I just find him so obnoxious.


Agreed. I know this thread is mainly for discussing matches, but there seems to be a lot of general wrestling discussion here which I like. To have proper wrestling discussion with like-minded individuals is refreshing from all the bad posters/trolls/gimmick posters in your average WWE section thread. In the last thread I was an occasional poster, but in this new thread I've been a very active contributor (just checked and I'm the 5th highest poster in this thread). Best thread on the forum really.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena/Jericho the night after SS 05 is too slept on. Almost as good as SummerSlam IMO.

Also finally finished watching *The Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback*. All I can say is AWESOME match. Everybody takes some serious bumps and it's an all out war with tables, ladders and chairs for over 20 minutes. Not a single dull moment and everyone plays their role to perfection. SHIELD are a force as a team, Ryback is damn good at playing the powerhouse, Kane and Bryan also served their purpose each. So many memorable spots, don't know where to start. ★★★★½.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Cena/Jericho the night after SS 05 is too slept on. Almost as good as SummerSlam IMO.
> 
> Also finally finished watching *The Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback*. All I can say is AWESOME match. Everybody takes some serious bumps and it's an all out war with tables, ladders and chairs for over 20 minutes. Not a single dull moment and everyone plays their role to perfection. SHIELD are a force as a team, Ryback is damn good at playing the powerhouse, Kane and Bryan also served their purpose each. So many memorable spots, don't know where to start. ★★★★½.




Agreed. I also have it at ****1/2

Kane chokeslaming Ambrose on the chair and that Rollins bump at the end...... Mark!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Rollin's Blackout on the chair to Bryan is :mark: :mark: and if I were to do stars (which I don't because it's a completely flawed concept) it would add 1/2 * easily. FACK. I love Rollins. The biggest benefit of The Shield breaking up is Rollins singles matches, IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BLACKOUT ON THE CHAIR + Ambrose's Necro Butcher chair spot :mark:

6 Man TLC match is utterly brilliant. Can't say enough positives about the match. Just about perfectly done, tbhayley.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I think Rollins will be the best out of the shield. Has top babyface written all over him.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Does anyone think Ryback's selling at times is great? When Mark Henry came to attack him on today's SD! I thought Ryback sold the attack from the Shield very well by struggling to get up. Or the way he sold the uppercut from Cesaro a couple of weeks ago, I thought Cesaro would get the win for a second :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rollins can have the strongest amount of success if they're broken up. Ambrose seems to be too complex for the casuals to get unless the machine really back him up. Obviously I and fans of his know the talents he's capable of; I only feel he'll go out there and do a promo _(or segment)_ in his unique fashion and it might be lost on some fans. Sort of like how Cesaro doesn't get much of a reaction everywhere, but still continues to rule in his matches.

I'm sure someone out there gets what I mean.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Agree about Rollins. He has superstar written all over him, IMO. Admit I'm a tad biased as I'm a Tyler Black mark. But be that as it may, he has the selling and offense down to be a popular babyface at the least, IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's proven to be near fact with his success in FCW & NXT. I know that's "different" than WWE, but not really. He got over. Push him as a face in the E and I'm almost certain the same reaction will follow. Did everywhere else he's been so far.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Rollins will be a top face and Ambrose will be one of the main heels, he's too damn good.

As for reigns? No clue. I could see him being something big, but also could see him being just a midcarder. Either or can happen for him I believe.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd certainly like to see Ambrose/Rollins at Mania 30. Interesting to see what the Shield does post-Mania.

Concerning Cena winning the title and his programs - his next reign needs to be one of his last, if not the last. He's already at 11 or 12 (not sure what WWE has his at) and in my mind there is no reason he should have as many reigns as Triple H. Cena trading the title just to get him to 15 reigns or so would be stupid. I've also got some bias towards Trips because he's a favorite, but I don't care. Trips > Cena all day.

As far as title programs for Cena, I'd like to see heel Cena (!) against a face Bryan, and that's about all can think of. Daniel Bryan will get cheered against Cena, more or less depending on the crowd. Cena/Reigns and Cena/Cesaro interests me, though I want Cesaro to be built a little more. 

I wouldn't mind if Punk took a break to recharge, especially if he's been working a little banged up. That actually might be a story post-Mani to set up Punk/Lesnar for Summerslam. Have Brock, who would be angry over his loss to Trips, attack Punk the night after Mania, which would write Punk off for however long they want, maybe early July-ish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns is a force. Unsure how he'll be alone, but right now he's getting some great exposure for his role. The intensity shown on all the beatdowns & few matches made me a fan instantly. Seen his work prior to being brought up and nothing stuck out. Almost feels like a new worker since being with The Shield.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

UNCENSORED 2000


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

VAMPIRO VS FINLAY


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

King Kenny said:


> UNCENSORED 2000


THE APPLE PIE INDIAN STRAP MATCH, JACK


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I don't like the guy at all but damn Ryback took his destruction on Smackdown like a champ (Y)

Please WWE, keep The Shield going strong, you have done well so far.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*World Heavyweight Championship: Chris Jericho (c) vs John Cena - Survivor Series 2008*

Right, so after thinking I remembered this match and calling it 'average' I have re-watched. Let's see if I recall it and think the same.

Jericho and Cena stare each other down for a while, before Cena jumps in and tried to hit an FU at the very start. Jericho escapes and scurries away. Both men stare each other down again, before Cena tries to catch Jericho in the STF, who escapes again. Great start to the match, telling the story that Cena wants to end this early so he doesn't have to put his healing neck through a long match. Cena then gets some offence and heads to the top rope, but has second thoughts and simply comes back down. Another great little moment, with Cena looking worried and nowhere near as confident as he normally would be. Jericho takes advantage and kicks Cena's head into the ringpost, before leaving him outside and trying to win by countout. Cena gets back in at 9.

Jericho gets into control, and works heavily on Cena's neck with a full nelson and by simply contorting Cena's head. Cena's able to power out of both but Jericho grounds him again quickly by ducking the running shoulder block and countering a suplex into a bulldog. Jericho's offence is superb throughout the match. He doesn't do a single move that doesn't impact Cena's neck. Every move is targeted at the head area and it's a great aspect of that match and shows Jericho to be very cunning.

Cena tries to come back but Jericho traps him in a painful looking Liontamer, and then the Walls Of Jericho. Cena's able to make it to the ropes. As both men get up Cena hits an FU out of nowhere, but can't cover straight away and Jericho is able to kick out. They then find themselves straddled on the top rope. Cena throws Jericho off and hits the leg drop off the top. This is a nice throwback to earlier in the match and throughout Cena has slowly gained in confidence and is now able to hit the big time move without worry. Good storytelling. 

Cena looks on top but suddenly Jericho hits the Codebreaker out of nowhere, and Cena sells it well. Jericho rolls agonizingly slowly over to Cena to make the cover, and its only a 2. Jericho, now looking visibly frustrated, hits 2 big time clotheslines on Cena - again working the neck. Jericho wants to go for a third but Cena counters into the STF. Jericho counters into a roll up but Cena powers out and transitions into an FU for the win.

Ok, this match was far better than I remembered. I don't know what I was smoking when I watched it before. Great storytelling. Cena wanting to end the match early and looking visibly worried about his neck were great. Jericho looked smart and in control by targeting Cena's neck constantly. Excellent match, I'll watch and review the rematch at Armageddon tomorrow.

******


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Started HIAC 2012 today and Orton/ADR was great. I gave it ***1/4. There was one weird spot with Del Rio going to the top rope and then not really looking like he knew what he wanted to do. Really good otherwise though. I think Orton is underrated as far as his wrestling ability goes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> *World Heavyweight Championship: Chris Jericho (c) vs John Cena - Survivor Series 2008*
> 
> Right, so after thinking I remembered this match and calling it 'average' I have re-watched. Let's see if I recall it and think the same.
> 
> ...


(Y)

Good read. Glad to see the work in the match is appreciated. I'm probably one of the biggest fans of it. Sooooooo great.



Dark Church said:


> Started HIAC 2012 today and Orton/ADR was great. I gave it ***1/4. There was one weird spot with Del Rio going to the top rope and then not really looking like he knew what he wanted to do. Really good otherwise though. I think Orton is underrated as far as his wrestling ability goes.


Maybe if it was a few years ago. He's been going downhill since about 2010. Been lifeless in the ring.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy - Smackdown 14/11/08 - Extreme Rules Match*






Just wanted to my offer thoughts on this match. It was really enjoyable to say the least and for a free TV match, It had some pretty nice spots and wrestling. Undertaker had the role of a precise and powerful striker while Hardy's role was to be the ambitious, smaller wrestler willing to do anything to win. It was truly a David and Goliath Battle. Hardy throughout the match would try and seize any opportunity he could, He felt believable as a threat to Taker. An obvious run-in by Big Show gives Hardy the win, It wasn't really a dirty win but it wasn't 100% clean. The finish with the leg drop off the top of the ladder was great and made everyone look credible including the one who lost. 

Also, If you noticed, this match tends to borrow a lot of spots and wrestling from their ladder match for the WWE Championship in 2002 which, i'll admit is slightly better.

But this match is still very good and worth a check out.

*(***1/2)*​


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> Maybe if it was a few years ago. He's been going downhill since about 2010. Been lifeless in the ring.



I disagree and his matches with Ziggler, Punk and especially Christian should prove that. Did you not enjoy his series of matches with Christian in 2011?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Going through my Smackdown 2006 project again, I must say that King Booker is a five star gimmick, especially when you combine it with JBL's commentary during his entrances and William Regal's "All hail King Booker" line he keeps repeating.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

does anyone have Eddie/Angle 2/3 falls? I used to have it till my laptop got wiped 



GOON The Legend said:


> Going through my Smackdown 2006 project again, I must say that King Booker is a five star gimmick, especially when you combine it with JBL's commentary during his entrances and William Regal's "All hail King Booker" line he keeps repeating.


It was very entertaining. Incredibly corny but it was fun to watch nonetheless.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Missed The Shield discussion a few pages back so I'll just throw in my 2 cents. At first I thought Reigns would make it the farthest of the 3. He's got the size, has the right look, he can talk- all that good stuff. But the more I think about it, the 'E' has really been behind Rollins since his FCW and NXT days. So yeah, now I think Rollins will go the farthest. Afterall, he does most of the talking for The Shield I find. I gotta hand it to Rollins as well, he's stepped his mic game up a lot since his ROH days. My personal belief is that ROH hinders mic work growth. I always knew he had potential on the mic. Always liked the guy. Was super excited when I found out he got signed. 

As for as Ambrose goes, I don't know. He'll be a key player in the E but I can't see him reaching the heights of a Rollins or Reigns. Call me crazy but I think Reigns will make one insanely over babyface.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Moved


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Went through and watched a couple Streak matches on Netflix, basically just the main two ones I didn't have on dvd.

*Taker vs. Flair* from *Mania X8* is pretty awesome. Hadn't seen it in years, total slugfest with some great punches thrown. Quite possibly the greatest superplex spot in wrestling history, at least the best one I think I've ever seen. Teased finish with the Double A Spinebuster mark was brilliant. One of the forgotten greats from the Streak. *****

*I've always thought *Taker vs. Orton* from *Mania 21* was very good, but nothing more. I prefer matches with a different structure but the back and forths route seemed to work here. The last few minutes of this are really great and ya gotta love the chokeslam into an RKO counter. Good match, but I prefer their SmackDown encounter (their 3rd match). Put this on the same level as the Handicap Casket match. **** 1/2*


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Went through and watched a couple Streak matches on Netflix, basically just the main two ones I didn't have on dvd.
> 
> *Taker vs. Flair* from *Mania X8* is pretty awesome. Hadn't seen it in years, total slugfest with some great punches thrown. Quite possibly the greatest superplex spot in wrestling history, at least the best one I think I've ever seen. *Teased finish with the Double A Spinebuster* mark was brilliant. One of the forgotten greats from the Streak. *****
> 
> *I've always thought *Taker vs. Orton* from *Mania 21* was very good, but nothing more. I prefer matches with a different structure but the back and forths route seemed to work here. The last few minutes of this are really great and ya gotta love the chokeslam into an RKO counter. Good match, but I prefer their SmackDown encounter (their 3rd match). Put this on the same level as the Handicap Casket match. **** 1/2*


One of my fondest mark out moments because it was a legit surprise. Ranks on the same level for me as Paul Bearer coming out to do Taker's entrance at WM20. Those two are easily in my top 5 mark out moments ever.


----------



## IamBESTINTHEWORLD (Mar 15, 2013)

*Re: Classic Wrestling General Discussion & Review Thread*

Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H at Summerslam 2002 in a Street Fight:
In a MOTN match on the best Summerslam card of all time. This match had a great story to it HHH and Michaels are bringing back DX then *BAM* Pedigree to HBK and that was a start to maybe the best feud of 2002-2006.The match delivered with great storytelling and alot of weapons like a chair, a ladder, table, trash can, steel steps, tables,fire extinguisher and a shoe???????

But the match was awesome, the ending was shocking but i wont spill i give this a 

*****

5 stars means SO AWESOME!


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> Going through my Smackdown 2006 project again, I must say that King Booker is a five star gimmick, especially when you combine it with JBL's commentary during his entrances and William Regal's "All hail King Booker" line he keeps repeating.


I think it was at Summerslam 2006, he and Sharmell had a segment with Edge and Lita, and he looked at Edge and said "who is this...rogue?" :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*King of the Ring Finals
*Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
_King of the Ring '93_

I've been on a Bret binge as of late since watching The Dungeon Collection, so I said what the hell, let's turn on _The Best of King of the Ring _on Netflix. My GOD what a great decision. The major story coming into this is that Bret has had to wrestle two long, grueling matches against Razor Ramon & Mr. Perfect (classic), while Bam Bam had a 5 minute match in the first round against Jim Duggan & then a 2nd round bye thanks to Luger & Tatanka going to a time limit draw. Clearly Bret is the underdog on so many levels here. 

I'm not gonna lie, not everyone is going to love this as much as I did, it's probably a good 15 minutes of isolation and back work from Bam Bam, but this is the kind of structure I enjoy. Bigelow does nothing but high angle back suplexes and a bunch of different bearhug/backbreaker variations for several minutes until we go to the outside where he takes a sweet looking bump into the guardrail. He manages to get back the upperhand and catches Bret flying off the apron and drills him back first into the ringpost. Bam Bam sneaks back into the ring, allowing Luna Vachon to creep down to ringside and nail Bret in the back with a steel chair. Easy pickins for the Beast from the East. He rolls Bret back in, hits the big flying headbutt off the top rope, and 1-2-3. Bam Bam Bigelow is your King of the Ring! But wait...

Earl Hebner runs into the ring like a madman and demands the match be restarted because he saw Luna's interference. So that it does. Whatever, fine with Bigelow. Back to bearhugs! Couple more minutes of grueling backwork until FINALLY Bret is able to mount a comeback, hits a big back suplex, throws the big man outside and leaps on top of him with the flying body press. Big flurry back in the ring from the Hitman as he hits the signature flying clothesline, bulldog, and tries to set up for the sharpshooter, but HELL NO. Bigelow's having none of that and kicks him away. Couple nice nearfalls here as they counter each other's moves and we wind up with Bret leaping from the middle rope and getting the victory roll on Bam Bam for the 1-2-3. (a finish you saw a lot of in their matches). Bret Hart is the TRUE 1993 King of the Ring winner!

As basic as this match really is, I think it's utterly fantastic. Bigelow's weardown and control segment was excellent, the story of Bret having to overcome so many odds and fight off the beast was amazing, and the sheer execution of everything was so well done. In my eyes, an underrated classic.

***** 1/4*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> I disagree and his matches with Ziggler, Punk and especially Christian should prove that. Did you not enjoy his series of matches with Christian in 2011?


Matches with Dolph aren't anything special. Overrated for some unknown reason.

Punk carried the match at WM to be something good. Extreme Rules match wasn't too good from either man.

Christian was the only reason why their matches were so good. That one is VERY obvious.

Orton also got carried by Henry in 2011, so the point here still stands. He's not good anymore. Few years ago he was. Actually incorporated intricacies and good storytelling moments into his matches coupled with a good in ring accumen. Nowadays he's the drone of drones. Boring display after lifeless boring display. Incorporating almost no desire to find a reason to get into his matches. You see one Orton match these days and you've seen them all. The dip he's taken is quite sad to see. He once was worth watching.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WEEKLY ORTON DISCUSSION.

HE SUCKS NOW.

END OF DISCUSSION.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> WEEKLY ORTON DISCUSSION.
> 
> HE SUCKS NOW.
> 
> END OF DISCUSSION.


rton

I remember being so surprised at Henry going over Orton clean that first time in 2011. Was pretty sure that Orton would keep the belt and Henry was just another heel for him to feud with.

On that note, let's move this discussion to Mark Henry, who, even though he had an injury that took him down for a while, is one of the most credible heels they've got right now. 

Any great (or above average) matches with him pre 2011?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> WEEKLY ORTON DISCUSSION.
> 
> HE SUCKS NOW.
> 
> END OF DISCUSSION.


Thank you.

I kind of feel like an idiot for getting duped into going into detail with one quick response. Didn't think anyone would 'call my bluff' _(aka truth)_ when it's obvious the guy isn't worth anybody's time.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Mark had some pretty good matches with Mysterio on SD in 2006.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mark Henry was pretty awesome on ECW circa 2009 before leaving for RAW. Look at this 2008 work too. (Y)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Those Mark Henry/Matt Hardy matches from '08 were pretty good.

How is Finlay/Henry from Armageddon '08? I'd imagine it being good but I think I've seen it. I honestly don't remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ummmmm I remember liking it, but thinking it could have been better. Solid was my first "opinion" on it.

Yeah, about the only help I can be right now. Don't own the show. (N)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Finlay/Henry from Armageddon 2008 is here, If anyone wants to critique it. 

http://www.myspace.com/video/joe-the-balla/wwe-armageddon-2008-finlay-vs-mark-henry/56349723

Do you guys mind rating my 2001 list?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If it's posted, I'm sure it'll get some reviews/comments and the like. Post away.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My Top 20 WWF Matches from 2001 

1. Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - Summerslam 2001 *(*****)*
2. Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Championship) - Smackdown 5/31/01 *(*****)*
3. TLC II (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - WM17 *(****3/4)*
4. Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs. Two Man Power Trip (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Raw 5/21/01 *(****3/4)*
5. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - Royal Rumble 2001 - Ladder Match *(****3/4)*
6. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - WM17 - No DQ Match *(****1/2)*
7. Triple H vs. Steve Austin - No Way Out 2001 *(****1/2)*
8. TLC III (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Smackdown 5/24/01 *(****1/2)*
9. Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (for the WCW Heavyweight Championship) - No Mercy 2001 *(****1/4)*
10. Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle - KOTR 2001 - Street Fight *(****1/4)*
11. Undertaker vs. Triple H - WM17 *(****1/4)*
12. 5 on 5 Elimination Match - Survivor Series 2001 *(****)*
13. Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (for the WWF Championship) - Judgement Day 2001 *(****)*
14. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - Backlash 2001 - Ultimate Submission Match *(****)*
15. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - No Way Out 2001 *(***3/4)*
16. RVD vs. Jeff Hardy - Summerslam 2001 - Ladder Match *(***3/4)*
17. Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddy Guerrero (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - No Way Out 2001 *(***3/4)*
18. Undertaker vs. RVD (for the Hardcore Championship) - Vengeance 2001 - Hardcore Match *(***1/2)*
19. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - Rebellion 2001 *(***1/2)*
20. Undertaker & Kane vs. Steve Austin & Triple H - Backlash 2001 *(***1/4)*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1. Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - Summerslam 2001 (****3/4)
2. Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Championship) - Smackdown 5/31/01 (****1/2)
3. TLC II (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - WM17 (***3/4)
4. Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs. Two Man Power Trip (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Raw 5/21/01 (***3/4)
5. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - Royal Rumble 2001 - Ladder Match (****3/4)
6. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - WM17 - No DQ Match (****1/2)
7. Triple H vs. Steve Austin - No Way Out 2001 (***1/4)
8. TLC III (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Smackdown 5/24/01 (****1/2)
9. Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (for the WCW Heavyweight Championship) - No Mercy 2001 (****1/4)
10. Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle - KOTR 2001 - Street Fight (****1/4)
11. Undertaker vs. Triple H - WM17 (****1/4)
12. 5 on 5 Elimination Match - Survivor Series 2001 (****1/2)
13. Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (for the WWF Championship) - Judgement Day 2001 (***3/4)
14. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - Backlash 2001 - Ultimate Submission Match (****)
15. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - No Way Out 2001 (***3/4)
16. RVD vs. Jeff Hardy - Summerslam 2001 - Ladder Match (*)
17. Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddy Guerrero (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - No Way Out 2001 (**3/4)
18. Undertaker vs. RVD (for the Hardcore Championship) - Vengeance 2001 - Hardcore Match (***1/2)
19. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - Rebellion 2001 (**)
20. Undertaker & Kane vs. Steve Austin & Triple H - Backlash 2001 (****1/4)

WM 6 review in my BLOG~!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Some really great matches in 2001. Might have to do a search and download a 2001 pack.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Are there any Hogan matches that relied on actual wrestling than crowd interaction and storytelling?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Might as well do the ones I remember...

1. Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - Summerslam 2001 *(*****)* - My MOTY too. (Y)

2. Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Championship) - Smackdown 5/31/01 (N/R) - Haven't seen it since it aired.

3. TLC II (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - WM17 (****)

4. Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs. Two Man Power Trip (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Raw 5/21/01 (****1/2)

5. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - Royal Rumble 2001 - Ladder Match *(*****)* - Best ladder match in WWF/WWE history.

6. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - WM17 - No DQ Match (***1/2)

7. Triple H vs. Steve Austin - No Way Out 2001 (**1/2)

8. TLC III (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Smackdown 5/24/01 (****1/2)

9. Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (for the WCW Heavyweight Championship) - No Mercy 2001 (****1/4)

10. Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle - KOTR 2001 - Street Fight (****)

11. Undertaker vs. Triple H - WM17 (***1/2)

12. 5 on 5 Elimination Match - Survivor Series 2001 (***1/2)

13. Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (for the WWF Championship) - Judgement Day 2001 (N/R)

14. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - Backlash 2001 - Ultimate Submission Match (N/R)

15. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - No Way Out 2001 (****)

16. RVD vs. Jeff Hardy - Summerslam 2001 - Ladder Match (***3/4)

17. Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddy Guerrero (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - No Way Out 2001 (N/R)

18. Undertaker vs. RVD (for the Hardcore Championship) - Vengeance 2001 - Hardcore Match (***1/2)

19. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - Rebellion 2001 (**)

20. Undertaker & Kane vs. Steve Austin & Triple H - Backlash 2001 (N/R)

So clearly there are a few I need to brush up on. I know I like Power Trip vs BOD & Taker vs Austin, but can't slap a fancy "star rating" next to them b/c it has been awhile. The real blasphemy here is not watching Austin vs Benoit in over a decade.

---------

On a different note: Finished Road Wild '97 atm. I can't believe THIS show followed what has to be the best WCW PPV in the Nitro era in Bash at the Beach '97. Hot garbage this event was. I want to watch Flair vs Syxx over again as I felt distracted the first go. I'll post some quick thoughts on it soon. If not tomorrow.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

You need to watch more 2000 stuff. 8*D

I'm thinking of downloading some WCW from 1991-1995


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wanted to get my '97 on b/c it registered with me as my favorite year from WCW during the Nitro era. 2000 would OWN if I found all the TV & PPVs. Those aren't on XWT last time I checked. Maybe I didn't look clear enough.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

All PPVs from 1991 - 2001. Someone will have to tell me whats good between 1991-1994 as I didn't watch it. 

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=73838

I have all the 2000 ppv's (plus 95, 96, 97, 99, 2000, 2001). I dont think I have 98 yet though. 

As far as the Nitro's go...

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=73442


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

'91 - '94? EVERYTHING. Well, things began to decline in '94, but not until the latter portion. Spring Stampede '94 holy CRAP. :mark: Make sure you get everything from '92 asap. Brilliant, the best, wonderful, you'll go nuts for it. Doing a disservice to WrestleWar '91 b/c of the obvious classic War Games match.

Damn torrent links to all the PPVs? WOW. I can finally play catch up for good now. Brings a tear to my eye.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> My Top 20 WWF Matches from 2001
> 
> 1. Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - Summerslam 2001 *(*****)*
> 2. Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Championship) - Smackdown 5/31/01 *(*****)*
> ...


Seriously, how GOAT was 2001? It might be my favourite year ever. Such a shame Trips got injured. Anyway, I'll rate your list Wrestlingfan:

1. Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - Summerslam 2001 *****3/4*
2. Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Championship) - Smackdown 5/31/01 *****1/2 (Needs a re-watch, I think it should be rated a little higher)*
3. TLC II (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - WM17 *(****3/4*
4. Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs. Two Man Power Trip (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Raw 5/21/01 *****3/4*
5. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - Royal Rumble 2001 - Ladder Match *****3/4*
6. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - WM17 - No DQ Match *******
7. Triple H vs. Steve Austin - No Way Out 2001 *****3/4*
8. TLC III (for the WWF Tag Team Championships) - Smackdown 5/24/01 *****1/4*
9. Chris Jericho vs. The Rock (for the WCW Heavyweight Championship) - No Mercy 2001 ******
10. Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle - KOTR 2001 - Street Fight *****1/2*
11. Undertaker vs. Triple H - WM17 ******
12. 5 on 5 Elimination Match - Survivor Series 2001 *****3/4*
13. Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (for the WWF Championship) - Judgement Day 2001 ******
14. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - Backlash 2001 - Ultimate Submission Match ******
15. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWF Championship) - No Way Out 2001 ****3/4*
16. RVD vs. Jeff Hardy - Summerslam 2001 - Ladder Match ****3/4*
17. Chris Jericho vs. X-Pac vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddy Guerrero (for the WWF Intercontinental Championship) - No Way Out 2001 ****1/2*
18. Undertaker vs. RVD (for the Hardcore Championship) - Vengeance 2001 - Hardcore Match ****1/4*
19. Steve Austin vs. The Rock (for the WWF Championship) - Rebellion 2001 *****
20. Undertaker & Kane vs. Steve Austin & Triple H - Backlash 2001 ******


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm surprised you never found them before. I'll link you to more, I think I missed a link.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> I'm surprised you never found them before. I'll link you to more, I think I missed a link.


Meh. I'm lazy when it comes to torrents. Only use them for recent events and never think to use the noggin and search for some older ones. I blame my non angst towards streaming sites if I find matches or events available. Or I always try and buy what I can first. That's priority number one for me.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I just keep helping everyone everyday. 8*D


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Meh. I'm lazy when it comes to torrents. Only use them for recent events and never think to use the noggin and search for some older ones. I blame my non angst towards streaming sites if I find matches or events available. Or I always try and buy what I can first. That's priority number one for me.


I always use DesiRulez for streaming and downloads, They also live stream events such as WM and the other PPVs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny - King of ASSISTANCE.

Now I want to finish up '97 so I can jump on Souled Out '98 only b/c I LOVE the Lucha atomicos opener. :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Starrcade 97 DAT CONTROVERSY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That show SUCKS.

Goldberg vs Mongo. DDP vs Hennig. Sting vs Hogan.

:|


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DDP vs Hennig no good? I can't remember it too well, thats probably why.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's very poor. Hennig does some crummy offense for the majority. DDP hits the diamond cutter and that's about it. Great moment via the result, but the match stinks.

Their Road Wild match wasn't nearly as good this time around tonight.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Why not?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Doing my 2012 list now, I don't which i should put at Number 1. Cena/Lesnar ER or HHH/Taker WM28. I wonder what AlienBountyHunter would do?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nothing about it popped like the last time. Noticed the transitions were a tad sloppy and no portion of work by Hennig in the match went anywhere. Felt like they did random moves for the sake of 9 minutes only for Flair to come out and distract Page before Hennig hit the Hennig-Plex for a second time to win. DDP was certainly trying hard though. Henning in WCW was honestly too much of a bust to make it work.

DDP bleeding hard way forcing the camera to pan out is still worth a chuckle.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

For me, Lesnar/Cena was better then the WM match. But my #1 2012 match is definetely the Punk/Bryan from OTL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Lesnar in a landslide over Undertaker vs Triple H.

Six Man TLC or Punk/Jericho WM would probably be the runner up for me.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Were their any good TV Matches beside Cena/Punk and Henry/Punk in 2012? I can't think of anymore at the moment.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Doing my 2012 list now, I don't which i should put at Number 1. Cena/Lesnar ER or HHH/Taker WM28. I wonder what AlienBountyHunter would do?


Lol, is this the new 'What would Jesus do?' Not that I'm comparing myself to Jesus or anything, I'm not the Beatles. 

Anyway, I'd personally have Cena/Lesnar over HHH/Taker. Probably as my #1.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Lol, is this the new 'What would Jesus do?' Not that I'm comparing myself to Jesus or anything, I'm not the Beatles.
> 
> Anyway, I'd personally have Cena/Lesnar over HHH/Taker. Probably as my #1.


Not Jesus but still a great person. (Y)

I seem to be the only one thats a freakin fanatic of Sheamus/Bryan ER. I think i have it at something like *****1/2*
Dem falls and Dem spots, should have been at Mania' though, but we had to get full blown shitty concerts for both The Roid and Cena.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, Sheamus/Bryan at Extreme Rules is awesome. Such a shame they fucked Bryan over at 'Mania, that would have been a solid match at least.

Did anyone see Smackdown this week? Are there any matches worth watching from it? I saw Jericho/Swagger was booked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Were their any good TV Matches beside Cena/Punk and Henry/Punk in 2012? I can't think of anymore at the moment.


Cena vs Punk's matches were ok. Not bad, but not anything special either. The RAW 1000 match could be underrated on my behalf. I know the latter RAW match was only decent. 

Two out of the three Punk vs Henry matches are EXCELLENT. 4/2 & 4/16.

Danielson vs Sheamus from Extreme Rules OWNS. ****1/2 on my account too. Top 5 match for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Not that I'm comparing myself to Jesus or anything, I'm not the Beatles.


A common misconception :side:

Oh, you two get a room 

My MOTY for 2012 - Either Brock/Cena or Taker/HHH, just cant decide atm...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My top 20 2012 matches:

20.Punk/CEna- RAW 1000
19.Punk/Bryan/Kane- NWO
18.RAW Ladder Match- MITB
17.Cena/Ziggler- TLC
16.Jericho/Ziggler- SS
15.WHC Fatal 4 Way- OTl
14.Team Foley/Team Ziggler- Survivour Series
13.Bryan/Sheamus- ER
12.Sheamus/Show- HiaC
11.Lesnar/HHH- Summerslam
10.Shield/Team Hell No&Ryback- TLC
9.Punk/BRyan- MITB
8.Punk/Cena- NoC
7.Punk/Jericho- WM
6.Cena/Rock- WM
5.Shield/Team Hell No&Ryback- TLC
4.Punk/Jericho- ER
3.HHH/Taker- WM
2.Cena/Lesnar- ER
1.Punk/BRyan- OTL


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Are there any Hogan matches that relied on actual wrestling than crowd interaction and storytelling?


vs. The Great Muta (_New Japan Pro Wrestling - Wrestling Dontaku 5/3/1993_)



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Were their any good TV Matches beside Cena/Punk and Henry/Punk in 2012? I can't think of anymore at the moment.


Orton vs. Sheamus from sometime in May and Sheamus vs. Jericho from... idr. haha. *KingOfKings *can help you more with that though.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I can remember THOROUGHLY enjoying the Sheamus/Bryan street fight and thought it was an awesome TV match that could have easily PPVed, but I haven't watched it since it originally aired. Might check it out after I've watched the Lucha Atomicos match Hayley said he loved, and looking at who's involved, I can't see me not enjoying it. Benoit/Raven, Jericho/Rey and Hall/Zybysko has peaked my interest as well, from the same event.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> My top 20 2012 matches:
> 
> 20.Punk/CEna- RAW 1000 *(**3/4) *
> 19.Punk/Bryan/Kane- NWO *(***1/2)*
> ...


^^^ 2012 while not having one 5* match, was still very consistent with match quality but where's Punk/Henry from the night after WM28. IMO, It was much better than Cena/Punk RAW 1000.


----------



## The Big Boy (Mar 15, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> vs. The Great Muta (_New Japan Pro Wrestling - Wrestling Dontaku 5/3/1993_)


That match coupled with the one against Hansen is in my opinion THE best match of Hogan's career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh shoot. He said BESIDE those two? God dammit now I look like a fool.

Good/Great 2012 TV matches:

RAW:
Punk vs Ziggler ~ 1/2
Punk vs Swagger ~ 1/9 _(good even with a botched finish)_
Punk & Cena vs Ziggler & Swagger ~ 1/23
PUNK VS BRYAN ~ 1/30
Sheamus vs Henry ~ 2/20
Punk vs Bryan ~ 2/27
Sheamus vs Ziggler ~ 3/12
Punk vs Bryan ~ 5/28
Punk vs Kane ~ 6/4
Sheamus vs Tensai ~ 6/11
Christian vs Ziggler vs Swagger vs Khali ~ 6/11
Punk vs Bryan vs Kane ~ 6/25
Punk vs Show ~ 7/16
Punk vs Cena ~ 7/23
Sheamus vs Bryan STREET FIGHT ~ 7/30
Punk vs Mysterio ~ 8/6
Cena vs Bryan ~ 8/6
Jericho vs Ziggler vs Miz ~ 8/13
Punk & Cena vs Show & Bryan ~ 8/13
Jericho vs Ziggler ~ 8/20
Cena vs Del Rio FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE ~ 9/3
Sheamus vs Sandow ~ 10/1
Sheamus vs Barrett ~ 10/8
Sheamus vs Barrett ~ 10/15
Bryan vs Ziggler ~ 10/22
Mysterio, Cara, Kidd, & Gabriel vs Young, O'Neil, Primo, & Epico ~ 11/12
Punk vs Cena ~ 11/12
Sheamus vs Sandow ~ 11/19
Bryan vs Mysterio ~ 11/26
Cena vs Ziggler ~ 11/26
Sheamus vs Cesaro ~ 11/26
Cena & Sheamus vs Show & Ziggler ~ 12/3
Sheamus vs Ziggler ~ 12/10
Cesaro vs Kingston ~ 12/10 _(legit good carry job by Cesaro here.)_
Sheamus vs Show LUMBERJACK MATCH ~ 12/24

Smackdown:

Rhodes vs Booker T ~ 1/6
Bryan vs Show ~ 1/6
Sheamus vs Barrett TABLES MATCH ~ 1/20
Sheamus vs Rhodes ~ 2/3
Bryan vs Orton ~ 2/10
Bryan vs Sheamus ~ 2/17
Punk vs Bryan ~ 2/21
Sheamus vs Ziggler ~ 3/2
Jericho vs Sheamus ~ 3/16
Kane vs Orton NO DQ MATCH ~ 4/6
Sheamus vs Orton ~ 5/18
Punk vs Kane ~ 6/1
Christian vs Ziggler ~ 6/8
Punk & Sheamus vs Bryan & Ziggler ~ 6/15
Christian vs Del Rio ~ 6/22
Bryan vs Kane ~ 6/22
Sheamus vs Ziggler vs Del Rio ~ 6/29
Jericho vs Sheamus ~ 7/13
Christian vs Miz ~ 7/27
Bryan vs Kane vs Mysterio vs Del Rio ~ 7/27
Sheamus vs Tensai ~ 8/3
Jericho, Christian, & Kane vs Bryan, Ziggler, & Miz ~ 8/3
Christian vs Cesaro ~ 8/10
Jericho vs Del Rio ~ 8/17
Mysterio vs Rhodes ~ 8/31
Bryan vs Sheamus ~ 9/14
Sheamus vs Tensai ~ 10/12
Bryan vs Del Rio ~ 10/12
Sheamus & Regal vs Show & Barrett ~ 11/6
Cena vs Del Rio ~ 11/30
Kane, Bryan, & Kingston vs Barrett, Young, & O'Neil ~ 11/30
Sheamus vs Ziggler ~ 11/30
Bryan vs Show ~ 12/7
Sheamus vs Del Rio ~ 12/7


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Matches with Dolph aren't anything special. Overrated for some unknown reason.
> 
> Punk carried the match at WM to be something good. Extreme Rules match wasn't too good from either man.
> 
> ...


Yeah and Lesnar carried Cena at Extreme Rules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gotten to.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Lesnar did carry JOHN MAN. 

What's the better year for PPV's? 2001 or 2002?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2001.

You can pick out the matches worth seeing from the 2002 PPVs and watch them singularly.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Favourite PPV from 2001?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> Lesnar did carry JOHN MAN.
> 
> What's the better year for PPV's? 2001 or 2002?


2002 had the better PPV matches but 2001 had the better TV matches, but 2002 still had great TV matches like Taker/Hardy Ladder Match and TLC IIII.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SUMMERSLAM :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Gotten to.


The point is, can you go to any more lengths just to make sure you DON'T give him any credit? It's almost as bad as the Cena haters that claim he was carried in EVERY good match he's had (and there must be hundreds of them).

EDIT: What else is there on the SummerSlam 01 card that's worth checking out? I've only seen Austin/Angle (AWESOME!) and ROCK/Booker (decent).


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

hey cody CENA SUCKS. deal with that. :hayden2

SUMMERSLAM Austin/Angle :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> Favourite PPV from 2001?


Mania/Survivor Series/Rumble. Summerslam great too. A lot of gold that year.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Speaking of Orton, I recently checked out RR 2005 and gave his match with Triple H a watch. It was great, I thought. The psychology and storytelling were great, The wrestling was sloppy but still decent. The ending however was so overbooked it makes me want to puke. WWE, Way to make diminish any credibility left of Orton in 2005. ****3/4* for me, Their best singles non-gimmick match by far.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The point is, can you go to any more lengths just to make sure you DON'T give him any credit? It's almost as bad as the Cena haters that claim he was carried in EVERY good match he's had (and there must be hundreds of them).
> 
> EDIT: What else is there on the SummerSlam 01 card that's worth checking out? I've only seen Austin/Angle (AWESOME!) and ROCK/Booker (decent).





HayleySabin said:


> Bryan vs Orton ~ 2/10
> Kane vs Orton NO DQ MATCH ~ 4/6
> Sheamus vs Orton ~ 5/18


?

Only stating the truth. Punk controlled 100% of the WrestleMania match. Unsure how it couldn't be a carry job when all the match was put on Punk's shoulders to make the match interesting. Both didn't do anything of note come their LMS rematch.

Orton vs Ziggler matches are watchable and solid. That's about it.

Orton vs Christian was excellent b/c of Christian. His babyface work put the Over The Limit match over in tremendous fashion. That's why it was obvious. Orton was only a good control for Christian to work off of. Would have been the same case if most other people would have been the opponent for Christian. Only a few could have fed off of what Christian was producing: Danielson, Punker, Henry, Cena, McIntyre, & probably Sheamus. Oh def Cesaro.

Besides, you missed the part of the post where I put him over actually. So, stop being butthurt Orton love isn't essential by all, bro. b/c it's getting kind of sad now. To the point of why you should even't care.



King Kenny said:


> hey cody CENA SUCKS. deal with that. :hayden2
> 
> SUMMERSLAM Austin/Angle :mark:


His matches vs Dolph this year certainly did. 8*D

MOTY for 2001. Without a doubt.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Mania/Survivor Series/Rumble. Summerslam great too. A lot of gold that year.


Backlash deserves a mention, Grade A PPV.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> EDIT: What else is there on the SummerSlam 01 card that's worth checking out? I've only seen Austin/Angle (AWESOME!) and ROCK/Booker (decent).


Y2J/Rhyno is fun, and RVD/Hardy ladder match is good. Even Edge/Storm IC Title match is solid.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Backlash deserves a mention, Grade A PPV.


Yeah, that's good too. To be fair almost every PPV that year is at least good. InVasion was probably the worst.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Orton is boring as shit nowadays. How you can't see that is beyond me. Even he looks BORED as fuck when wrestling now. Unless he's been smoking some pot. 

Summerslam 2001 card:

WWF Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, WCW Championship: Booker T. vs. The Rock, WWF Intercontinental Championship: Lance Storm vs. Edge, WCW/WWF Tag Team Championship (steel cage match): The Undertaker & Kane vs. Kanyon & Diamond Dallas Page, WWF Hardcore Title (ladder match): Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, WCW Cruiserwieght/WWF Light Heavywieght Championship: Tajiri vs. X-Pac, Test & The Dudley Boyz vs. The Acolytses & Spike Dudley,Chris Jericho Vs.Rhyno

:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

X-Pac vs Tajiri. FUCK YES.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ALSO DOLPH :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TAJIRI! He was awesome. DAT Tarantula on the ropes. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great Juniors match. Love it. 

6 Man is a wild bunch of FUN. Only match on the show that isn't anything noteworthy for a positive is the Steel Cage. but it has Taker vs DDP in it so part of me will always enjoy it. Edge vs Storm is great in its own right too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Austin/Angle clearly should of main evented the card, We all knew even before it happened Booker/Rock was gonna be decent at best. Just another booking failure by McMahon, He chose a WCW title to go over a WWF title. fpalm


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:ddp !


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Edge/Storm has that beautiful roll through into the half boston crab by Storm, which is one of my favourite transitions.






3:20 in the video.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock's return to PPV. That's why it main evented over Austin vs Angle.

ugggg.

I guess no show can be perfect, right?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

:ddp got :buried by :taker because of :vince5


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That DDP/Taker feud was wasted big time. I remember the reaction when DDP pulled off that mask and revealed he was the stalker. The crowd went nuts and so did I. Then it all went downhill.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Edge takes a slick superkick by the Stormer in that one too. Damn that's a great, exhilarating match. Slightly arguable to say that is my favorite PPV ever. I dig it _THAT_ much.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Rock's return to PPV. That's why it main evented over Austin vs Angle.
> 
> ugggg.
> 
> *I guess no show can be perfect, right?*








































The closest things to perfect we've ever had, IMO


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That DDP/Taker feud was wasted big time. I remember the reaction when DDP pulled off that mask and revealed he was the stalker. The crowd went nuts and so did I. Then it all went downhill.


I don't get it, Why did they bury DDP but not RVD or Booker T? DDP was clearly the better in-ring performer and worker than both of them, he also had better mic skills. Did McMahon or Taker (hopefully not) have genuine dislike for him or what?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> The closest things to perfect we've ever got, IMO


Hyperbole, but I got ya.

WrestleMania 24 doesn't come near my list though. Replace it with WrestleMania 19 and I'm in full agreement.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Y2J/Rhyno is fun, and RVD/Hardy ladder match is good. Even Edge/Storm IC Title match is solid.


Might have to give the whole PPV a watch or maybe I'll save it for when I'm at 2001 which will be a while tbf.



HayleySabin said:


> ?
> 
> Only stating the truth. Punk controlled 100% of the WrestleMania match. Unsure how it couldn't be a carry job when all the match was put on Punk's shoulders to make the match interesting. Both didn't do anything of note come their LMS rematch.
> 
> ...


Surprised you didn't include "(Orton was carried)" following them.  Oh, and I hadn't read it when I made that post.

That's where the "Lesnar carried Cena" thing came from. So if one wrestler is in control for most of the match (fuck it, we'll say WHOLE match), that means the person who is down does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? Because Orton didn't spend that time sell his knee injury or anything?

But Orton did his thing too in that match even if Christian's babyface work was what put it over the top. That said, the rest of their matches were great because of both. In SummerSlam, Orton was in control for most of it while Christian was mostly bumping. That can't be overlooked IMO.

And I'm not "butthurt" about anything, I just think that you go sometimes hyperbole with some of the stuff you say about him. I understand he's declined in being interesting the past year or two but that doesn't mean he's as bad as you make it sound at times. At least not to me.

Anyways, enough about Orton, *LET'S TALK SUMMERSLAM!*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker has had a pretty good array of matches at Summerslam.

vs. Mankind - SS 1996 
vs. Bret Hart - SS 1997
vs. Austin - SS 1998
vs. JBL - SS 2004
vs. Randy Orton - SS 2005
vs. Edge - SS 2008


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Undertaker has had a pretty good array of matches at Summerslam.
> 
> 
> vs. Edge - SS 2008


LOVE that match, ****1/2 from me, maybe a tad higher if im honest, one of the best cell matches, just awesome :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Surprised you didn't include "(Orton was carried)" following them.  Oh, and I hadn't read it when I made that post.
> 
> That's where the "Lesnar carried Cena" thing came from. So if one wrestler is in control for most of the match (fuck it, we'll say WHOLE match), that means the person who is down does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? Because Orton didn't spend that time sell his knee injury or anything?
> 
> ...


Nah, b/c Cena managed to use his beatdowns taken by Brock and turn them into a stellar intangible for the match. He made fans back him and root him on in the comeback. Something Orton didn't really do in the match against Punk. His selling was good. Certainly can't deny the fact if I tried. 

tbf, I wasn't exactly crazy about the rest of their matches outside of Over The Limit. Been on the fence of watching Summerslam 2011 so whenever I do, I'll take note of it. Always going to hate that finish though. So stupid. Probably more obnoxious to me than Angle vs Michaels from Vengeance 2005.

I only call what I see here. The matches from 2011 that I did enjoy from him seemed to more more of one man shows than collective effort if you ask me. Which is why I posted it as so. Not against Kane in 2012 though. I thought both went back and forth in their matches and fed off each other nicely.

Summerslam was the most LEGIT PPV for YEAR until about 2004. '97 is fuzzy, and '98 is much more subjective, but from about '99 - 2003 every event was AWESOME. '99 was the clear cut PPVOTY (Only Backlash can really rival it, imo), '00 was one of many entertaining pieces in the best company year, 2001 I've creamed over already, 2002 is widely regarded as probably the BEST WWE PPV ever witnessed, & 2003 is quite underrated, or more forgotten, among the masses. It's another great event. From top to bottom - granted the EC match was more of a Goldberg display with a poor ending thanks to Game being injured.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mr. SummerSlam is surely Bret Hart:

vs Demolition '88
vs Brain Busters '89
vs Demolition '90
vs Perfect '91
vs Bulldog '92
vs Owen '94
vs Taker '97

All of those are classics. And then you have the Doink, Lawler & Isaac Yankem (Kane) matches which are OK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EVIL DOINK THE CLOWN.

aka the greatest gimmick ever established next to The Undertaker. And if anyone is thinking I'm joking or being facetious, well, you don't know me then.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> *EVIL DOINK THE CLOWN.
> 
> aka the greatest gimmick ever established next to The Undertaker*. And if anyone is thinking I'm joking or being facetious, well, you don't know me then.


EVIL DOINK LOVE :mark:

Though Savage ties with him at 2nd imo.

But back on topic, I disagree with 99 being that great. Shane/Test is phenomenal and the Main Event is great too, but I don't see the hype for the rest though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unholy Alliance vs Kane & X-Pac, Tag Team Turmoil, & Lions Den with Weapons all rock too. Especially the first. That tag is seriously underrated. Only matches I think fit the general norm of a WWF PPV in 1999 was Ivory vs Tori & Rock vs Gunn. Most cards were filled with crap matches whereas Summerslam '99 actually delivered a good show from near top to bottom.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh, Unholy Alliance/Kane & X-Pac is OK, Tag Team Turmoil expected a lot more with those guys, Lion's Den vs Owen is WAY better than the Blackman one. And you have other stinkers like Rock/Mr. Ass and Jarrett/D'Lo. I don't know though, its all personal taste. Backlash and St. Valentine's Day Massacre are better imo. Though I do agree 03 is seriously underrated - Smackdown was BOSS that night. Angle/Lesnar is :mark: .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was easily the best tag team turmoil. Felt like it had a pay off to it other than most where clearly the short term booking hurt them to a strong degree. Edge & Christian's performance in the match really brought it to life. Ending is a bit flat, but that's b/c the heart and soul behind it was removed before it got to finish.

No doubt Owen vs Shamrock has Shamrock vs Blackman beat. Point being, both matches are (Y). And for the topic here, I'll continue to put over the Weapons one. Lots of fun.

<3 the tag championship match. Can't see how it's only 'ok', personally.

Backlash probably doesn't beat it out for me b/c Taker vs Shamrock was such a mess & HHH vs X-Pac was worked all wrong. Not to mention Goldust vs Godfather was terrible. Rest was good though. Sleeper match being Owen & Jarrett vs NAO. Didn't think NAO would bring anything to the table against the talented opponents.

Taker vs A-Train, Four Way for US Championship, & Brock vs Angle. Yep. I'm sold. Not to mention the HOT tag opener, epic "sports entertainment" match in Shane vs Bischoff which was a blast, Kane vs RVD in a good match, & at watchable main event led by Goldberg smashing guys to help you along. Spear through the Chamber OWNS.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Angle/Lesnar at Summerslam 03 is gold. Superb match. I like the chamber match too despite it not being near the best ones. As Hayley said, that spear through the chamber was awesome. Plus I liked the finish with Flair sneaking the sledgehammer in.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Angle/Lesnar at Summerslam 03 is gold. Superb match. I like the chamber match too despite it not being near the best ones. As Hayley said, that spear through the chamber was awesome. *Plus I liked the finish with Flair sneaking the sledgehammer in.*


That ending was so dodgy, Goldberg had his eyes centered on Triple H. It's unrealistic he couldn't of seen the sledgehammer, I would of much rather had Flair distract Goldberg, then Orton would come out and toss the sledgehammer to Triple H while Goldberg was distracted.

I agree, Angle/Lesnar Summerslam shits all over their WM match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That DDP/Taker feud was wasted big time. I remember the reaction when DDP pulled off that mask and revealed he was the stalker. The crowd went nuts and so did I. Then it all went downhill.


Yup, starting with The Undertaker pretty much destroying DDP in a brawl they had at the King of the Ring 2001 PPV and DDP running away from Taker to make him even more weak. Summerslam 2001 was just the icing on the cake of the DDP burial. DDP got inured and had to take a couple of months off. Then came the motivational speaker gimmick... fpalm

It's pretty sad since DDP could have been used as one of the major players in the Alliance stable during the InVasion angle. Would have loved to see him involved in feuds with The Rock, Stone Cold, etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match was kind of fucked since jump street when you think about it. Game was going to win either way. Injury only allowed him to escape by doing zero work involved and survive till Unforgiven rolled around. Which I thought was a bit pointless considering the "long awaited" HHH vs Goldberg match stunk. Goldberg winning at Summerslam wouldn't have hurt for a booking on the fly mentality.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> That ending was so dodgy, Goldberg had his eyes centered on Triple H. It's unrealistic he couldn't of seen the sledgehammer, I would of much rather had Flair distract Goldberg, then Orton would come out and toss the sledgehammer to Triple H while Goldberg was distracted.
> 
> I agree, Angle/Lesnar Summerslam shits all over their WM match.


Well, it's wrestling so I'll suspend my disbelief slightly. HHH's body was in the way if I recall so it could have blocked Goldberg's vision anyway.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Okay but that sledgehammer shot caused bleeding?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What's your MOTN for every SummerSlam?

I'll try with the ones I've seen in full (or most of it):

2002: Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★½ (ROCK/Lesnar a close second)
2003: Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle - ★★★★½
2004: Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton - ★★★★½
2005: Randy Orton vs Undertaker - ★★★★¼
2007: Randy Orton vs John Cena - ★★★★
2008: Batista vs John Cena - ★★★★ (Edge/Taker rated the same but below it IMO)
2011: Randy Orton vs Christian - ★★★★¼
2012: Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - ★★★½



HayleySabin said:


> Nah, b/c Cena managed to use his beatdowns taken by Brock and turn them into a stellar intangible for the match. He made fans back him and root him on in the comeback. Something Orton didn't really do in the match against Punk. His selling was good. Certainly can't deny the fact if I tried.
> 
> tbf, I wasn't exactly crazy about the rest of their matches outside of Over The Limit. Been on the fence of watching Summerslam 2011 so whenever I do, I'll take note of it. Always going to hate that finish though. So stupid. Probably more obnoxious to me than Angle vs Michaels from Vengeance 2005.
> 
> ...


I didn't really compare them, though. I was just disproving the "Punk carried the whole match" thing. There's a reason Lesnar/Cena is 5 stars to some and only a quarter or half away for others including myself while Punk/Orton is a decent, above average match.

And yeah, the finish was terrible with the Body Splash into the steel steps but many good matches have terrible finishes which doesn't necessarily ruin them to me.

And since we're on the topic of Orton, I'll put this here: Was gonna watch HIAC with Sheamus yesterday but fell asleep halfway through and finished it now. Standard use of the cell for PG standards by them ramming each other into it a bit in the beginning but then completely forgetting about it, making it useless. A bit of steel steps and chairs are used but otherwise, it's a standard one-on-one match and it's pretty good at that. Slow start but gets going halfway through with some great back-and-forth, nearfalls and some of the spots. The finish hurt Orton way more than Sheamus, though. And that spot KOK loves to ramble about was definitely very stupid. Striker trying to cover up for it made it even worse. ★★★½.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Okay but that sledgehammer shot caused bleeding?


Err, well I can't recall if that shot caused 'Berg to bleed or if that came about due to the beat down after?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I heard Taker/Khali LMS was suppose to happen at Summerslam 2006, That would of easily stole the show and been MOTN.

PS: Ken Shamrock vs. Chris Masters = Dream Match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> What's your MOTN for every SummerSlam?
> 
> I'll try with the ones I've seen in full (or most of it):
> 
> ...


It never usually hurts the match for me. Only comes off as a personal gripe most of the time.

HIAC vs Sheamus rules. Between myself or my brother idk who loves it more - ****. RKO's on any objects suck b/c it is already Orton's head/back that makes contact instead of his opponent. He really should just DDT his opponents on the objects or work on letting the RKO fall loosely so the opponent can make the needed contact.

MOTN for each Summerslam seen?

1988: Unsure
1989: Ultimate Warrior vs Rick Rude
1990: Hart Foundation vs Demolition
1991: Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect
1992: Bret Hart vs Davey Smith
1993: Bret Hart vs Doink The Clown
1994: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart
1995: Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon
1996: Undertaker vs Mankind & Shawn Michaels vs Vader
1997: Mankind vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley
1998: X-Pac vs Jeff Jarrett
1999: Test vs Shane McMahon or Undertaker/Big Show vs Kane/X-Pac
2000: TLC I
2001: Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle
2002: Kurt Angle vs Mysterio
2003: Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar
2004: Benoit vs Orton
2005: John Cena vs Chris Jericho
2006: John Cena vs Edge
2007: Finlay vs Kane
2008: Undertaker vs Edge
2009: CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy
2010: Team WWE vs Team Nexus
2011: Unsure
2012: Chris Jericho vs Dolph Ziggler


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> What's your MOTN for every SummerSlam?
> 
> I'll try with the ones I've seen in full (or most of it):
> 
> ...


1998: HHH/Rock Ladder Match -* *****
1999: Don't recall this PPV much, but Test/Shane was pretty good I think.
2000: TLC I - *****1/4*
2001: Austin/Angle - *****3/4*
2002: HBK/HHH - *****1/2*
2003: Angle/Lesnar - *****3/4*
2004: Orton/Benoit - ****3/4*
2005: Mysterio/Eddie - ****3/4*
2006: Poor event. Err, Flair/Foley? Not even sure what stars for that.
2007: Cena/Orton - ****3/4*
2008: Taker/Edge HIAC - *****1/4*
2009: Punk/Hardy TLC Match - *****1/4*
2010: Team WWE/Team Nexus - ******
2011: Punk/Cena or Christian/Orton. Tough choice.
2012: Lesnar/HHH - ******


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> It never usually hurts the match for me. Only comes off as a personal gripe most of the time.
> 
> HIAC vs Sheamus rules. Between myself or my brother idk who loves it more - ****. RKO's on any objects suck b/c it is already Orton's head/back that makes contact instead of his opponent. He really should just DDT his opponents on the objects or work on letting the RKO fall loosely so the opponent can make the needed contact.
> 
> ...


No love for Orton/Christian?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> That was easily the best tag team turmoil. Felt like it had a pay off to it other than most where clearly the short term booking hurt them to a strong degree. Edge & Christian's performance in the match really brought it to life. Ending is a bit flat, but that's b/c the heart and soul behind it was removed before it got to finish.
> 
> No doubt Owen vs Shamrock has Shamrock vs Blackman beat. Point being, both matches are (Y). And for the topic here, I'll continue to put over the Weapons one. Lots of fun.
> 
> ...


I'm really not a fan of Tag Team Turmoils (or Gauntlets for that matter). They do feel really rushed. Pretty sure the one I enjoyed the most was the one from Judgment Day 2001. This one had a great E&C performance indeed, but that's about it. The ending pair feels subpar imo even if I did love the Acolytes.

Lion's Den Weapons, meh. Dissapointing imo. Not bad, sure, but I don't really enjoy it much.

I'll admit that I only remember the tag championship match being OK. Haven't watched in a while, so a rewatch may change my opinion.

Backlash's flow and pace was well structured, even if the show wasn't top to bottom stellar. Taker/Shamrock reminded me of HHH/Punk in that the match was a big time mess, but a damn fun one at that. Same feeling on HHH/X-Pac and the Tag Titles. Rock/Austin beat out the WM 15 one for sure.

SSlam 03 - (Y). 'Nuff said.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

What are your thoughts on Kane vs. Austin on RAW after KOTR for the WWF Championship?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2001: Austin/Angle - ****3/4
2002: Rock/Brock - ***3/4
2003: Angle/Lesnar - ****1/2
2004: Orton/Benoit - ***1/2
2005: Cena/Jericho - ***1/2
2006: Cena/Edge - ***3/4
2007: Cena/Orton - ***3/4
2008: Taker/Edge HIAC - ****1/2
2009: Punk/Hardy TLC Match - ****
2010: Team WWE/Team Nexus - ***3/4
2011: Punk/Cena - ***3/4
2012: Lesnar/HHH - ***1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> What are your thoughts on Kane vs. Austin on RAW after KOTR for the WWF Championship?


Very good match IMO. ★★★¾.

And I forgot all about SummerSlam 97 which I've seen in its entirety. MOTN for that would be Hart vs Taker for me at ★★★¾.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> No love for Orton/Christian?


On the fence. Need to slam through the PPV again to see how I feel. At this rate I might be more partial towards Henry/Sheamus & Bryan/Barrett over Orton/Christian & Cena/Punker.



ATF said:


> I'm really not a fan of Tag Team Turmoils (or Gauntlets for that matter). They do feel really rushed. Pretty sure the one I enjoyed the most was the one from Judgment Day 2001. This one had a great E&C performance indeed, but that's about it. The ending pair feels subpar imo even if I did love the Acolytes.
> 
> Lion's Den Weapons, meh. Dissapointing imo. Not bad, sure, but I don't really enjoy it much.
> 
> ...


Oh man. Forgot about Judgment Day 2001. Think that might be the tops when it comes to Tag Team Turmoil actually. It was a gimmicked I loved as a kid, but when I got older I noticed the flaws such as rushed timing. Most of the time they're always fun at worst.

Finish was flat. Other than that I always mark while I watch it. Lion's Den gimmick in itself was just cool, imo.

I second a rewatch. 

It was a show I liked overall. I'll agree with you there how it flowed nicely the entire way. I couldn't help but look at the two matches I wanted to see the most being letdowns. Especially Undertaker vs Shamrock. Perhaps it could turn out better for me the next time I watch when I go in knowing they worked it under MMA fashion. Fans CRAPPED on it though. Natural at that time. Austin vs Rock is brilliant. My second favorite match of their's behind WrestleMania 19.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> What are your thoughts on Kane vs. Austin on RAW after KOTR for the WWF Championship?


Good 8 minute match following their awesome war the night before.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SSlam MOTN's:

1988 - The Hart Foundation vs. Demolition
1989 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters
1990 - The Hart Foundation vs. Demolition
1991 - Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart
1992 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog
1993 - 6-Man Tag Match
1994 - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart
1995 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon
1996 - The Undertaker vs. Mick Foley
1997 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker
1998 - The Rock vs. Triple H
1999 - Shane McMahon vs. Test
2000 - TLC I
2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle
2002 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H
2003 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
2004 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton
2005 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho
2006 - Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley
2007 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton
2008 - The Undertaker vs. Edge
2009 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk
2010 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus
2011 - Christian vs. Randy Orton
2012 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena - RAW - 4/23/07
Really enjoyed the story of 'it only takes 3 seconds to win' with the constant STFs and the super kicks out of nowhere. The wrestlemania call backs were good to. This was really good, but what bothered me a lot was how long it dragged after Cena hit the first FU before Michaels amounted much offense. I get that they were going for 'HBK WILL NOT STAY DOWN!' but it got dull when he hit standard moves to get nearfalls for again and again. That part and a few others just seemed to drag on for me. Still a good match, I'd put it on the lower end of ***3/4

The Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker - Vengeance 2002
Geez this was such a fun match. Although they kept to the standard triple threat formula at times, this was so much fun with all the finisher stealing. This kept me on the edge of my seat through all of the nearfalls and it flew by for being about 20 minutes. This was really easy to get into and enjoy, and each man played there role well. A solid **** since I don't have any qualms with what they did, and they didn't try to make it an epic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is Bobby Lashley vs King Booker from 23/6/2006 worth a watch? Match goes for about 20 minutes but I just skipped over it right now because I simply wanna get to Vengeance. If it's good, I will go back and watch the whole thing later.

And the show closer is Mizark taking on Rey Mysterio for the title. How are they jobbing Rey this time without him losing the title?

Also I'm almost finished downloading The Definitive Collection of NAITCH DVD and that's after having both The Bottom Line and Best There Is, Best There Was, Best There Ever Will Be in my computer. Seen Austin's documentary but only a small part of Hart's and want to watch all the matches in these docs. Any other documentaries with good matches in it that I should watch?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Is *Bobby Lashley vs King Booker from 23/6/2006* worth a watch? Match goes for about 20 minutes but I just skipped over it right now because I simply wanna get to Vengeance. If it's good, I will go back and watch the whole thing later.
> 
> And the show closer is Mizark taking on Rey Mysterio for the title. How are they jobbing Rey this time without him losing the title?
> 
> Also I'm almost finished downloading The Definitive Collection of NAITCH DVD and that's after having both The Bottom Line and Best There Is, Best There Was, Best There Ever Will Be in my computer. Seen Austin's documentary but only a small part of Hart's and want to watch all the matches in these docs. Any other documentaries with good matches in it that I should watch?


A mediocre match, That dragged on for far too long.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> A mediocre match, That dragged on for far too long.


I guess it's like that KOTR first round match Booker had with Matt Hardy that was like 20 minutes long but a snoozefest. Only difference is that skimming through, some parts looked exciting with the crowd being more lively and Booker applying a Figure Four.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Ratings or Thoughts on these matches?

Undertaker vs. Rock - King Of The Ring 1999
Kurt Angle vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - NWO 2004
Cactus Jack vs. Hunter-Herts-Helmsley - RAW 1997
Undertaker vs. Big Show vs. Chris Jericho - Survivor Series 2009


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

20 minute Bobby Lashley match not vs Finlay? AVOID.

Lashley vs Booker was poor with only 9 minutes at Judgment Day. Can't imagine 20 being an improvement.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Ratings or Thoughts on these matches?
> 
> Undertaker vs. Rock - King Of The RIng 1999
> Kurt Angle vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - NWO 2004
> ...


Solid.
Fun.
BRILLIANT.
Good.

Foley vs H is the best bet there to watch.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Foley/HHH is awesome. Everything else there is worth a watch, too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Solid.
> Fun.
> BRILLIANT.
> Good.
> ...


Forgot to mention, It was a street fight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Ratings or Thoughts on these matches?
> 
> Undertaker vs. Rock - King Of The Ring 1999
> Kurt Angle vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - NWO 2004
> ...


Only seen the first two and they are both solid.



HayleySabin said:


> 20 minute Bobby Lashley match not vs Finlay? AVOID.
> 
> Lashley vs Booker was poor with only 9 minutes at Judgment Day. Can't imagine 20 being an improvement.


I thought the JD match was alright, but yeah, at twenty minutes, I can't imagine caring since I'm pretty indifferent to both.

Was Booker a better performer in WCW? I heard about that before and I can only hope so because in WWE, majority of his matches are fucking boring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Falls Count Anywhere. One of my picks for RAW match of the year in 1997. Beat the talked about Austin/Michaels vs Owen/Bulldog tag and ties with Owen/Bulldog b/c of personal enjoyment.

Booker's singles work in WCW was solid, if not good. He worked vs Benoit. All the matches were quality. Get on them. Surprised you haven't seen a few by now. GAB '98 rocks.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Only seen the first two and they are both solid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Booker seemed like he didn't really give a shit in WWE, His only "good" performance came from a match with Triple H at WM19. Other than that, I can't really think of anything else. His series with Benoit was much better in WCW.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

I've only seen Undertaker vs. Rock at King Of The Ring 1999 on TheWrestlingFan's list and I found that match to be average if not below average. Interesting to see some people like such a match here.

None to special Attitude Era brawling with one incredibly dumb moment at the start of the match. 

I wouldn't bother watching that shit again. (N)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlwaysSunny For AIW said:


> I've only seen Undertaker vs. Rock at King Of The Ring 1999 on TheWrestlingFan's list and I found that match to be average if not below average. Interesting to see some people like such a match here.
> 
> None to special Attitude Era brawling with one incredibly dumb moment at the start of the match. I wouldn't bother watching that shit again. (N)


I feel the brawling in the crowd got a little too out of hand in the AE, It felt like it was compulsory for a match to have some kind of beyond the railing brawl.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's solid at best. Certainly nothing to go out of your way to see. Best part: Ministry Undertaker. Which is why I covet owning it on DVD.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I tell you a Booker WWE match that is really enjoyable throughout - his Armageddon '05 match against, guess who, Benoit :troll

Now that we talked about SummerSlam, *LET'S TALK ABOUT SURVIVOR SERIES!*

Thoughts on the following:
Hogan vs. Taker - '90
Bret vs. Diesel - '95
Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff - '03
Shelton vs. Christian - '04
Orton vs. HBK - '07 (<3)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I tell you a Booker WWE match that is really enjoyable throughout - his Armageddon '05 match against, guess who, Benoit :troll
> 
> Now that we talked about SummerSlam, *LET'S TALK ABOUT SURVIVOR SERIES!*
> 
> ...


Meh. Great ending though.

Quite stellar, actually.

YES :mark:

Always loved Shelton vs Christian. (Y)

Pretty great. Went down recently for me, but can't deny the brilliance of some parts. Plus, Orton totally won it clean. Which earned mega points in my book.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

I remember when they use to treat Summerslam like it was damn near equal to wrestlemania... 

anyway all this Summerslam talk around wrestlemania makes me :lol at how lackluster the RTW has been...

Since it is wrestlemania season it only makes sense to post the greatest 25 Summerslam matches: 



Spoiler: Top 25 Greatest Summerslam Matches ever.... (in order).






> hardcore title- ladder match
> Jeff Hardy vs RVD 2001 ***1/4
> 
> Hbk vs Hulk hogan 2005 ***1/4
> ...





Yeah There are like 10 ***+ honorable mentions that are probably better than Hogan vs Hbk but that match holds a place in my heart because of Michaels hamming it up so hilariously so it's there... Anyway the was hard to narrow down due to the number of awesome shit Summerslams have had on them...


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hogan vs. Taker - '90 *(**)* 
Bret vs. Diesel - '95 *(***1/2)* 
Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff - '03 *(****)*
Shelton vs. Christian - '04 *(***)*
Orton vs. HBK - '07 *(****1/4)*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Falls Count Anywhere. One of my picks for RAW match of the year in 1997. Beat the talked about Austin/Michaels vs Owen/Bulldog tag and ties with Owen/Bulldog b/c of personal enjoyment.
> 
> Booker's singles work in WCW was solid, if not good. He worked vs Benoit. All the matches were quality. Get on them. Surprised you haven't seen a few by now. GAB '98 rocks.


Been saving most of the WCW stuff for when I'm finished with all the WWF/E years on my list. It'll definitely take a long time but should be fun.

Also has anyone watched the VIVA LA RAZA DVD for Eddie Guerrero? I mean the whole thing. I'm reading about the DVD featuring both tribute shows to him and I'm just curious about one thing. Have they actually included the parts where Benoit is present or have they all been removed including the opening with the whole roster standing on the stage as Vince makes the announcement?

EDIT: Survivor Series...

Hogan vs Taker - ★★½
Bret vs Diesel - ★★★½
Team Austin vs Bischoff - ★★★★
Shelton vs Christian - ★★★¾
Orton vs HBK - ★★★★¼


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Undertaker taking the referee out for absolutely no reason other than shock is so silly. Again, fuck that KOTR match.

As far as Ministry Undertaker goes, I never was a fan. I thought that was one of his worst points as a worker in the company under the gimmick. That and I was too busy marking for Austin over everybody else when I was younger to not care. 8*D


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thoughts on these Survivor Series matches:

Eddie vs. Edge - 2002
Kane vs. RVD - 2003
Triple H vs. Ric Flair - 2005
Undertaker vs. Austin - 1998
Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy - 2006


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff - '03 (****1/4)
Shelton vs. Christian - '04 (***1/2)
Orton vs. HBK - '07 (****1/2)

Funny how Shelton and Christian had a better match without a ladder. Their Ladder match in 09 is awful (***)

Orton/HBK is AWESOME. The best use of a banned finisher in a match that i've seen.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Thoughts on these Survivor Series matches:
> 
> Eddie vs. Edge - 2002
> Kane vs. RVD - 2003
> ...


★★★½
★★¾
★★★★¼
N/A (did this even happen?)
N/A (almost there)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My own thoughts on the ones I posted:
- Hogan/Taker: **. Memorable match but really not that great.
- Bret/Diesel: ****1/4. AMAZING selling and storytelling negate the slow pace it had (essentially a superior HHH/Lesnar in that matter).
- Team Austin/Team Bischoff: ****3/4. One of HBK's GOAT performances. Nuff said.
- Shelton/Christian: ***1/2. Pretty good indeed.
- Orton/HBK: ****1/2. Ever Wolf's thoughts on it are spot-on.

As far as TheWrestlingFan's list:
- Eddie/Edge If you mean Edge & Rey/Angle & Benoit/Guerreros: ****. Great match between... uh... 5 of the GOAT in WWE. And Chavo.
- Kane/RVD If you mean Kane/Shane: ***. Unforgiven LMS was better.
- Flair/HHH: ****1/2. Speaking of LMS matches being better, this one outdid the TT cage imo.
- Taker/Austin: ***1/4. '98 was more about great booking than it was for wrestling, though this one here was good.
- Taker/Kennedy: ***. Stiff and tough as nails. One of the best First Blood Matches (though that's not saying much).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Fack, I'm a dummy, I picked the first two as summerslam matches. I will change them now.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> Also has anyone watched the VIVA LA RAZA DVD for Eddie Guerrero? I mean the whole thing. I'm reading about the DVD featuring both tribute shows to him and I'm just curious about one thing. Have they actually included the parts where Benoit is present or have they all been removed including the opening with the whole roster standing on the stage as Vince makes the announcement?


I own it. But the DVD set doesn't have the tribute shows in it at all unless they were sold as something separately elsewhere that you can get with said set. And if that's the case then I feel like I missed out.

EDIT.

Looked around for some details on the Eddie DVD set and saw this..



> If you don't own Cheating Death, Stealing Life, you might want to check out a limited-edition special promotion that Best Buy is running. For $40, you get this 3-disc set, that 2-disc set, No Way Out 2004, and the RAW Tribute Show. FYE is selling a 4-disc version of this DVD set with the SmackDown tribute show. While I have seen neither of these special editions, *I have read numerous reports that have stated that both tribute shows feature the Benoit edit*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

For Survivor Series:

HBK/HHH/Cena - 2009
Flair/HHH - 2005
Taker/Kennedy - 2006
The Darkside (The Undertaker, Savio Vega, Fatu and Henry Godwinn)/The Royals (King Mabel, Jerry Lawler, Isaac Yankem and Hunter Hearst Helmsley) - 1995


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

HBK/HHH/Cena - 2009 - *** (Dead crowd, usual spots, good but not great)
Flair/HHH - 2005 - ****1/2
Taker/Kennedy - 2006 - **1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena vs HHH vs HBK - ★★★¾



AlwaysSunny For AIW said:


> I own it. But the DVD set doesn't have the tribute shows in it at all unless they were sold as something separately elsewhere that you can get with said set. And if that's the case then I feel like I missed out.
> 
> EDIT.
> 
> Looked around for some details on the Eddie DVD set and saw this..


Damn, if they have actually removed the Raw opener with the entire roster standing there, then it's pretty lame. Either that, or they have done some magical camera work and showed every angle where Benoit is hidden. (probably cut to the crowd when Vince is speaking. :lol)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> For Survivor Series:
> 
> HBK/HHH/Cena - 2009
> Flair/HHH - 2005
> ...


Quality match. What you'd expect with those 3 in a main event capacity. Not GREAT, but a good way to kill 20 minutes.

Pretty good, but nowhere near their Steel Cage a few weeks prior.

Best match in their PPV trilogy. Good match.

haha. About what you'd expect with the oddball teams. Especially when one sweeps the other. Decent.

Someone needs to make a Regal list and see what the general consensus is. _(why don't I do it...idk.)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 SS Elimination Matches?

Mine would be:
1 - Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff
2 - Team WWF vs. Team Alliance
3 - 20-Man SS Match '87
4 - Team Savage vs. Team Flair
5 - Team Raw vs. Team Smackdown


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*World Heavyweight Championship: John Cena (c) vs Chris Jericho - Armageddon 2008*

So after reviewing the first match between these two here and liking it a whole lot more than I remembered, here's the rematch.

This match starts off as more of a brawl than a wrestling match, with both men clubbing each other after a brief stare down at the start. Jericho, wanting to take control of the match, grounds Cena and locks him in a sleeper hold. Cena tries to power out once but Jericho holds on. Cena tries a second time and sets Y2J up for the FU, which is countered nicely into a DDT. Cena rolls to the apron and Jericho goes for his patented springboard dropkick, but Cena is able to catch him. Jericho looks in trouble before he's able to bulldog Cena into the steel steps. Excellent sequence there, great spot with Cena catching Jericho on his shoulders on the apron.

Jericho smells blood and chokes Cena on the ropes for a while before grounding him in a submission again. Cena escapes and gets some heavy offense in before looking for the FU, which Y2J wriggles out of and tries to lock in the Walls of Jericho. Cena powers out. Both men exchange power moves before Jericho counters the throwback and hits the Lionsault, but only gets a 2 count. Both men escaping the others finisher so far implying that they've learnt a lot since their match the month before. 

Both men get tied up in the corner before Cena throws Jericho off the top and hits the flying legdrop. Cena then sets Jericho up for the FU, but Y2J lands on his feet and hits a sweet Codebreaker. Cena kicks out. Jericho covered Cena way to quickly there and the kickout made the Codebreaker look pretty weak. Great counter though. Jericho complains to the ref the count was a three, but then turns around and is hit with an FU. Both men are down, before Cena belatedly covers Jericho but only picks up a 2 count.

Jericho almost catches Cena in a roll-up before Cena tries to counter into the STF. Jericho desperately tries to escape, and counters excellently into the Walls Of Jericho. It's locked in for a while, but Cena can't reach the ropes so instead rolls through and counters into the STF which Jericho submits to.

Solid match. Definitely not as good as their Survivor Series one but still solid. The storytelling wasn't as good in this one but there was a little more action.

****1/4*


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Top 5 SS Elimination Matches?
> 
> Mine would be:
> 1 - Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff
> ...


1. Team WWF vs Team Alliance
2. Team Austin vs Team Bischoff
3. Team Raw vs Team Smackdown
4. Team HHH vs Team Orton

I'm not sure what I'd put at #5.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1. Team SD vs Team Raw - 05
2. Team Austin vs Team Bischoff - 03
3. Team Lesnar vs Team Angle - 03
4. Team Orton vs Team HHH - 04
5. No idea

Haven't seen Alliance vs WWF yet, but I know it'll definitely overtake two or three of these.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Team Austin vs Team Bischoff was one of the best tag matches I've ever seen. Everything flowed so nicely, the feud was interesting, and HBK's babyface performance when it just came down to him was great stuff. Orton getting the heel victory thanks to Batista's interference really put Orton over (started his streak of wins at Survivor Series) and Evolution over at the time. 

The whole Team WWF vs Team Alliance match is on Youtube in case you want to check it out Choke2death, here:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't get why people praise Benoit/Angle from Rumble 03 so much. All it is, is an influx of german suplexes and lengthy rest holds. It was quite dull and boring, Some people even dub it as the greatest WWE match in history. How can that be when It had no build surrounding it, It had no psychology or storytelling as far as in-ring action goes and the crowd was dead halfway through. So, i don't know how that makes a ***** match, Let the alone the greatest match in WWE history. 

And to be quite honest, Angle/Benoit never had great chemistry. I think their best match may be at Backlash 2001 in that Ultimate Submission match which gets a **** tops from me. 

Can anyone enlighten me on this match?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I don't get why people praise Benoit/Angle from Rumble 03 so much. All it is, is an influx of german suplexes and lengthy rest holds. It was quite dull and boring, Some people even dub it as the greatest WWE match in history. How can that be when It had no build surrounding it, It had no psychology or storytelling as far as in-ring action goes and the crowd was dead halfway through. So, i don't know how that makes a ***** match, Let the alone the greatest match in WWE history.
> 
> And to be quite honest, Angle/Benoit never had great chemistry. I think their best match may be at Backlash 2001 in that Ultimate Submission match which gets a **** tops from me.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me on this match?


Funny you mention this...

I'm going to be watching my top 300 matches (so far)... every one of them and see if they hold up at the rating I have them at. I'm going into this as objectively as possible, trying to ignore any preconceived ideas/criticisms about the match, and to actually watch some of these matches on the list for the first time in years, where they're only on them right now due to me remembering the rating and vaguely remembering the match itself. 

So yeah, reason I'm responding to your post is because Benoit/Angle RR 03 is my number 1 and that's the first one I watch. Going to see if it holds up, and I'll let you know what I have it at and why I have it at it. Not going to do that for every match (since I hate writing shit up), but for this one since you requested it, I will.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I've seen Hart Foundation vs the Brainbusters thrown around a few times, any 'ratingz' for it? Its not on this Arn/Tully comp I've downloaded. Doesn't have to be exclusively the Summerslam match.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> I don't get why people praise Benoit/Angle from Rumble 03 so much. All it is, is an influx of german suplexes and lengthy rest holds. It was quite dull and boring, Some people even dub it as the greatest WWE match in history. How can that be when It had no build surrounding it, It had no psychology or storytelling as far as in-ring action goes and the crowd was dead halfway through. So, i don't know how that makes a ***** match, Let the alone the greatest match in WWE history.
> 
> And to be quite honest, Angle/Benoit never had great chemistry. I think their best match may be at Backlash 2001 in that Ultimate Submission match which gets a **** tops from me.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me on this match?


All about the movez. For every suplex you've seen Kurt Angle throw in a match, you automatically add a 1/4*, regardless of anything else that happens.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Got both Benoit/Angle matches from Unforgiven '02 & RR 03 at ***1/2.
Never was a huge Benoit fan.


----------



## The Big Boy (Mar 15, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I don't get why people praise Benoit/Angle from Rumble 03 so much. All it is, is an influx of german suplexes and lengthy rest holds. It was quite dull and boring, Some people even dub it as the greatest WWE match in history. How can that be when It had no build surrounding it, It had no psychology or storytelling as far as in-ring action goes and the crowd was dead halfway through. So, i don't know how that makes a ***** match, Let the alone the greatest match in WWE history.
> 
> And to be quite honest, Angle/Benoit never had great chemistry. I think their best match may be at Backlash 2001 in that Ultimate Submission match which gets a **** tops from me.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me on this match?


I think that the standing 10 minute ovation that Benoit recieved after the match speaks volumes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I don't get why people praise Benoit/Angle from Rumble 03 so much. All it is, is an influx of german suplexes and lengthy rest holds. It was quite dull and boring, Some people even dub it as the greatest WWE match in history. How can that be when It had no build surrounding it, It had no psychology or storytelling as far as in-ring action goes and the crowd was dead halfway through. So, i don't know how that makes a ***** match, Let the alone the greatest match in WWE history.
> 
> And to be quite honest, Angle/Benoit never had great chemistry. I think their best match may be at Backlash 2001 in that Ultimate Submission match which gets a **** tops from me.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me on this match?


I don't really know how to explain it but to me, the Rumble match is a thing of beauty. What puts it on that other level for me is the ending with the excellent submission counters they come up with. The standing ovation Benoit gets speaks for itself. Might have to see it again, though. Doubt I'll go down on the rating as I'm too much of a mark for Benoit and that always has me more invested in his matches than any others.

Love their cage match, Backlash ultimate submission and other matches that I consider decent are the WM17 and Unforgiven 02 matches. Don't remember their 2 out of 3 falls match very much but the ladder part left a bad taste in my mouth.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Benoit/Angle, just got finished with it literally about a minute ago, and here's what I think:

Match is still an all-time classic. Angle and Benoit, two evenly matched individuals and regarded as two of the best wrestlers in the world at the time, go at it and know each other better than anyone else. It's a very basic, but still effective story of desire for the richest prize in the business, and Benoit looking to win it for the first time and having to overcome his arch-nemesis. The counters are beautiful and keep me invested for the first 7 minutes or so, and then the submission counters for the last 8 minutes or so. The excitement however gets to a super high when Angle hits the second angle slam on Benoit, and if I didn't know any better, I'd have thought that was it... and then I would've thought Benoit had the title when he locked on the crossface right after, but Angle locks in the ankle lock and at this point I love how the desperation to get out of it picks up for Benoit. However once Angle wraps his legs around Benoit's with the ankle lock locked in, it was the perfect way for Benoit to tap out.

Like I said, one hell of a match and still a classic, BUT, I no longer have it at *****, or the GOAT match anymore (for now... maybe all my 5 star matches are knocked down, who knows), reason being, and it may sound pretty frivolous, but when they stopped going back and fourth and Angle started controlling the match for about 5-6 minutes, it got really really boring and here's the thing... I just can't give a match ***** that keeps me tuned out for that long, even if they do grab me back in as soon as they go back and fourth again. I mean that was a quarter of the match right. 

Right now it is my highest match at ****3/4, but it doesn't hold up as the GOAT like it did. To answer TheWrestlinfan's question though very simply if the above didn't, what I (and others) love about the match is the sheer competitiveness of it between two evenly matched individuals for the top prize in the business. That story alone can sell me on almost any match, and it did so here better than any others to this point. Were there maybe a few too many suplexes? Yeah, but they didn't take up anywhere near as much of the match as you make it seem. The match isn't that dramatic outside of the end where if you're into either or both men when they both look like they have it won, and it's not brutal (though the sick DDT on the apron followed by Angle's nose bleeding was pretty cool), but it has everything a classic wrestling match could have for me, and that's why I'm such a huge fan of it.

Edit: Just to note though, I'm not a fan of any other Angle/Benoit match... there's just something different about this one.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I don't get why people praise Benoit/Angle from Rumble 03 so much. All it is, is an influx of german suplexes and lengthy rest holds. It was quite dull and boring, Some people even dub it as the greatest WWE match in history. How can that be when It had no build surrounding it, It had no psychology or storytelling as far as in-ring action goes and the crowd was dead halfway through. So, i don't know how that makes a ***** match, Let the alone the greatest match in WWE history.
> 
> And to be quite honest, Angle/Benoit never had great chemistry. I think their best match may be at Backlash 2001 in that Ultimate Submission match which gets a **** tops from me.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me on this match?


This. I remember watching this match a while ago after many people were praising the match on the forum saying it was the greatest match in WWE history, so when I watched the match it had to live up all this hype, and it didn't for me. A decent match, but not a ******* classic that people were making it out to be. At least not for me. Not the best in WWE history, there's matches I'd watch over it. I like Angle, I like Benoit, but this match wasn't the best, certainly not on the same level as matches like HHH/HBK/Benoit or Michaels/Taker that are real ******* matches.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> This. I remember watching this match a while ago after many people were praising the match on the forum saying it was the greatest match in WWE history, so when I watched the match it had to live up all this hype, and it didn't for me. A decent match, but not a ******* classic that people were making it out to be. At least not for me. Not the best in WWE history, there's matches I'd watch over it. I like Angle, I like Benoit, but this match wasn't the best, certainly not on the same level as matches like HHH/HBK/Benoit or Michaels/Taker that are real ******* matches.


This.

So, with all the love Orton/HBK from SS'07 has gotten over the past day or so, I decided to watch it for the first time since, I don't know when. Along time, though. Better than I remember it being. Loved seeing a wrestler have to work around not being able to use their finishing move in order to win the title. After HBK teased the superkick, but decided not to do it and went for the small package, I love that and what transpired after. The small package and the submission moves: Crossface and ankle-lock into grapevine in order to get a submission were excellent. Great job by both guys. ****1/4 - ****1/2 range for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I used to have Benoit/Angle RR 03 at *****. Then it went down to ****3/4. Then I watched it for my RR reviews at the start of the year...



Spoiler: Angle Vs Benoit



Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle – A match that a lot of people consider to be the GOAT. Or at the very least one of the best ever. And then there are people who believe it’s ok at best. Once upon a time if you asked me what the 3 greatest matches ever were, I’d probably have told you Undertaker/HBK HIAC, Undertaker/Angle NWO 06… and this match. I’ve since lowered my opinion of this one but still consider it to be a great contest. However my taste in wrestling has changed vastly over the last few years and it would be interesting to see how I feel about this match now, considering some of the people who don’t think much of it are people whose opinions are usually similar to mine. Starts off good at least, both guys look vicious and want to beat the shit out of each other, and Benoit comes out on top because he’s probably a better “brawler” than Angle at the time. Nice DDT on the apron from Benoit, shades of Regal last year. Transition spot into Angle’s control segment was a little odd though. Benoit goes for a diving headbutt and misses… and I thought “yeah, perfect time for Angle to get in control!”. Instead 10 seconds later Benoit has Angle in a Sharpshooter. Angle gets the ropes, then hits an overhead belly to belly… and THAT leads to Angle controlling. Ok lol. This match has been called “robotic” at times due to them seemingly going through the motions and being “too smooth” with reversals and transitions and whatnot that make everything look fake and planned out and co-operative as opposed to any combination of Regal/Benoit/Finlay where every hold and counter is fought for. Half way into the match I really can’t say I agree with that, just because there isn’t really anywhere for them TO have smooth reversals and counters or anything where it could be done “better” (depending on your preferences. For me I love the gritty nature of Finlay/Benoit/Regal). Then they seem to go into a big counter hold counter hold finishing stretch and THIS is where it definitely deserves the “robotic” label. Now don’t get me wrong, seeing 2 guys countering moves and whatnot can be extremely fun and exciting to watch… but when it comes to submission holds and anything done on the mat, being smooth makes everything look far to unrealistic and can take me out of the match a little. And of course when it comes to the submission holds, they lock them in so many times and counter so many times, it’s hard to get excited over them after a while because you expect them to be countered and don’t think they will end the match because, well, they’ve managed to survive the hold long enough already lol. Also, I honestly think that between this, HHH/Steiner and Brock/Show, we may have seen at least 50 suplexes on this PPV so far! Best part of the match is probably the crowd giving Benoit a standing ovation after the match despite the fact he lost. A great organic moment that unfortunately WWE would exploit and attempt to force in the future. So the match overall? Well it’s nowhere near as good as I remembered it to be. Or maybe it’s the exact same as I remembered it, only know I don’t enjoy this kind of match as much as I once did. I could go on and on about how I prefer the more gritty stuff from Benoit/Finlay/Regal, but this match didn’t have to do that to be great like they are. It could easily have been as good (albeit in a different way), but that finishing stretch that essentially lasted half of the match featuring dull counters and nonstop submission holds that never looked like they could truly end the match (ironic that the match DOES end in submission) bring it down for me. ***1/4.



Also, WM 6 went online today on my BLOG~!  [/second cheap plug]


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I recently watched Angle/Benoit for the first time and found that very enjoyable, especially the last 8-10 minutes. Starting with Benoit going up for the headbutt, but Angle hitting the belly to belly from the top rope, both guys going in and out of their submission finishers, the Angle Slam nearfall, Benoit using the Ankle Lock, the German suplex bits (including Benoit flipping Angle over), Benoit's flying headbutt hearly all the way across the ring, another Angle Slam nearfall, Benoit lasting in the Ankle Lock for that long after trying to counter out.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll have to re-watch Angle/Benoit from the rumble at some point. I've seen it about 3 times and loved it the first two but not quite as much the third time around. Still a quality match though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The thing that really made me love Benoit/Angle RR03 was that special feeling of competition that only comes from a few matches (Undertaker/Angle, Punk/Bryan, HBK/Jericho WM 19). I could buy in to this notion that these two were giving it all that they had for the top prize in the business. The restholds did not bother me because I felt that they made sense in context to the match, and I was entertained by the suplex battle, especially since one of the selling points of the match was how similar their styles were supposed to be. There wasn't a single moment of that match that felt boring to me, and I actually bought into every major submission hold having the potential to end the match. Others have priorities in what they want to see in a match (stiffness/physicality, good face/heel dynamic, "storytelling"), but for me, I value that special sense of competition more than anything.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Good post. That's something I love about that match too. It's not a feud built on hate (although they were big rivals) and it wasn't particularly personal, but it was simply two of the very best going at it for the world title.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have to say though, I find their WM17 match quite shit tbh :side:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The thing that really made me love Benoit/Angle RR03 was that special feeling of competition that only comes from a few matches (Undertaker/Angle, Punk/Bryan, HBK/Jericho WM 19). I could buy in to this notion that these two were giving it all that they had for the top prize in the business. The restholds did not bother me because I felt that they made sense in context to the match, and I was entertained by the suplex battle, especially since one of the selling points of the match was how similar their styles were supposed to be. There wasn't a single moment of that match that felt boring to me, and I actually bought into every major submission hold having the potential to end the match. Others have priorities in what they want to see in a match (stiffness/physicality, good face/heel dynamic, "storytelling"), but for me, I value that special sense of competition more than anything.


Exactly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because we are at the topic of RR with Angle/Benoit, what are your favourite matches from that show (Rumble and non-Rumble matches)?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

ATF said:


> Because we are at the topic of RR with Angle/Benoit, what are your favourite matches from that show (Rumble and non-Rumble matches)?


Benoit/Jericho Ladder Match RR 2001
Triple H/Cactus Jack Street Fight RR 2000
HBK/Undertaker Casket Match RR 98

Sure there are others, but that's just off the top of my head. Royal Rumble '92 match itself is probably the best Rumble ever, IMO.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Favourite Rumble match is 2004. However, I haven't seen any pre-1996 and I've heard many people say 1992 is the GOAT, so I'll check that out when I can be arsed. Favourite non-rumble match is Jericho vs. Benoit. I do love Cactus Jack vs. Triple H, but I've watched it so many times I've kind of gone down on it. If I watched Jericho/Benoit as many times as I had Jack/Game, I'd probably prefer Jack/Game again. Meh. Whatever. The better match is Foley/Hunter, but I just prefer Benoit/Jericho. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished rewatching Angle/Benoit a couple of hours ago but didn't get the chance to write a full review so here it comes.

*Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 2003)*
- Unlike many other all-time great matches, this one doesn't really have much of a build-up other than two wrestlers with a similar style not getting along but still being forced to tag for a while followed by the obligatory break-up. One has the championship and the other manages to impress by becoming the #1 contender. Match starts off with Angle's protégés (Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas) being ejected from ringside to make it a fair competitive match with no shenanigans and good thing they did. The two start off by trying to outfight each other in normal brawling but a couple of minutes into it, Angle takes control and uses some restholds which last quite a bit and slow the match down. Normally, I'd hate it but this goes along with the story of them trying to outwrestle each other and Benoit having Angle's number, which forces Angle to wear him down. But once Angle's control segment is over, match really picks up in the pace and what we get is an excellent back-and-forth with some great transitions from holds and a lot of Suplex exchanges. Some will hate the fact that the first two Germans are no-sold with them switching positions but it doesn't really bother me as it goes along with how they have the same technical, Suplex heavy style and the end result is pretty good as Benoit hits an awesome German that turns Angle inside out then he goes three corners away and hits a picture perfect Diving Headbutt. And before that, the way he blew his nose on Angle was just nasty! (how long did he do this as a trademark?) After that is when the submission exchanges truly come into play and every nearfall is eaten up by the crowd as they truly come to life from here on. Every transition from the Crossface to the Ankle Lock and vice versa is done smoothly and any minute you get the feeling the match will be over. That also happens when Angle successfully connects with the Angle Slam on two occasions, the second of which must have definitely like the end for those watching it the first time or live. The end result is Angle locking the grapevine Ankle Lock with an inverted variation which causes Benoit to submit. Post-match, it's one awesome moment as Benoit gets a standing ovation which should have truly let Vince McMahon know that Benoit was fully ready to be a main event competitor. On this third or fourth watch, the excitement and enjoyment is not on par with the first couple of times but I still love it and other than the resthold part with Angle doing the leg-scissors, there was not a dull moment here. Still holds up to me. ★★★★★

Now it's on to *VENGEANCE 2006*.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brothers, apologize for the time delay, but
*behold my Top 200 WWE/F matches PART 3 - unblocked!*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Since when does *Cal* have a blog?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Forget about anything you're talking about right now and read this man's post:


HayleySabin said:


> EVIL DOINK THE CLOWN.
> 
> aka the greatest gimmick ever established next to The Undertaker. And if anyone is thinking I'm joking or being facetious, well, you don't know me then.


:yes Heel Doink is flat out amazing. Go watch RAW: The Beginnings if you're unaware of the greatness.



HayleySabin said:


> It never usually hurts the match for me. Only comes off as a personal gripe most of the time.
> 
> HIAC vs Sheamus rules. Between myself or my brother idk who loves it more - ****. RKO's on any objects suck b/c it is already Orton's head/back that makes contact instead of his opponent. He really should just DDT his opponents on the objects or work on letting the RKO fall loosely so the opponent can make the needed contact.


:yes :yes :yes Love that match, despite the dumb backbreaker spot.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Ratings or Thoughts on these matches?
> 
> Undertaker vs. Rock - King Of The Ring 1999
> Kurt Angle vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - NWO 2004
> ...


---
---
Really fun brawl, don't think it's anything amazing though. *** 1/4
Fun match, but nothing memorable. ** 1/2


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Back on my EDGE matches:

*Edge vs Eddie Guerrero - Unforgiven 2002*

The feud is heated here. Eddie attacked Edge with a chair on a Smackdown episode prior to this match, giving him a concussion, and Edge wants to get his revenge here. The match starts with Eddie on the outside trying to keep his distance from Edge, Eddie tells the ref to keep Edge back so he can get in the ring, off the ref distracting Edge Eddie goes for a quick roll up for a near fall and then precedes to run out the ring and play a little cat and mouse game with Edge. Eddie lures Edge back into the ring and gets the best of him for a few seconds with kicks and punches, but Edge explodes with hard offense on Eddie, with a big body drop followed by a flapjack. Edge maintains control for the next few minutes with powerslams and suplex's, but then Eddie counters a irish whip attempt in the corner and hits a tornado DDT to Edge, which leads the commentators to bring up Edge's concussion on Smackdown, and Edge head's becomes the focus of Eddie's offense for the next few minutes with submission holds and moves. Edge tries to make a comeback, but Eddie keeps the control with a back elbow to the head of Edge, keeping that focus on the head. Eddie turns up the aggression with repeatedly strikes on Edge, Edge throws a desperation right hand on Eddie, and both men are down, and the ref starts counting, both men then get up around the same time and Edge tries to gain control but once again Eddie counters him. While Eddie's getting cocky taunting, Edge rolls him up for a school boy, and then a small package, and then makes a full comeback with big impact moves on Eddie, one of the most notable being a sitdown-powerbomb off a hurricanrana counter. Edge goes for a spear, but runs into the turnbuckle, Eddie then tries to take advantage, but Edge counters into a Edgecution for a nearfall as Eddie gets his foot on the rope. Then Eddie exposes a turnbuckle and tries to whip Edge into it, but it backfires and Edge throws him into it followed up with a spear in the corner. Edge then picks up Eddie and places him on the turnbuckle for probably a suplex, but Eddie pushes Edge's head down and it hits off the exposed turnbuckle, Eddie then peforms a sunset flip powerbomb off the top rope and even uses the tights to get the win. ****1/2*

A fun match, the only match I've seen so far on this DVD that Edge loses, but he looks good throughout the match and protected in his loss with the exposed turnbuckle, Eddie using the tights, and the concussion that Edge had that the commentators kept going on about. This is the last match on the first disc of Edge's Decade of Decadence DVD, and I've reviewed all but one match on this first disc, and that one match I didn't review was the Hardy's vs Edge and Christian in that ladder match from No Mercy 1999, but that's because I watched it not to long before I started this Edge project and I've been more drawn to Edge matches I haven't seen before on this DVD, such as the Edge/Eddie match I've reviewed here. Onto the second disc now, even though I've already watched a reviewed a few matches on that second disc already, such as Orton/Edge from Vengeance 2004, Edge/HBK Street Fight RAW February 2005, and Edge/Kane RAW Gold Rush Tournament final 16th May 2005.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I was just watching Eddie and Edge's match on Smackdown, the No DQ one. They had a solid series of matches.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*Edge vs Matt Hardy - Street Fight - RAW 29th August 2005*

I was excited to watch this again as I hadn't seen it since it aired live nearly 8 years ago. The only match in the great Matt Hardy/Edge feud that I haven't re-watched... until now. Anyway the match starts with Hardy and Edge brawling and they instantly take the match into the crowd, then quickly they're back in the ring and Matt introduces the first weapon into the match by hitting Edge with a trash can lid, Matt then tries to follow up with bringing out a Ladder, but Edge baseball slides the ladder into Matt to take control, but then they go to commercial break... 

After the commercial break is over Matt's back in control and they show recaps of what happened during the break, with Edge trying to hit Matt with a ladder but Matt ducks and it hits the ring post, and Matt performs a suplex off the top rope to Edge, those were the recaps, now back to the action... Matt Hardy is hammering Edge with strikes, both punches and kicks, but Edge hits back causing Hardy to roll out to the apron, Edge then goes for a spear but Matt Hardy nails him with a trash can shot. Hardy then rams Edge into the Ladder, and spears Edge into the ladder, then sets up the Ladder and climbs it for a diving maneuver, Edge climbs to stop him, Matt knocks him down and Matt performs his signature diving leg drop off the ladder for a close nearfall. Matt Hardy then goes to get a chair, but Edge nails him with a kendo stick taking control and follows up with a few more shots with the stick. Edge then gets a chair to attempt to use on Matt, but he counters, but Edge quickly follows up by flapjacking Matt onto the ladder and then hitting him repeatedly with a trash can lid, the ref at this point asks Matt if he wants to give up, but Matt doesn't, and a interesting note is this match was just two weeks after their Summerslam match in which Edge beat Matt so badly that he couldn't continue. The ref continues to ask Matt, but he says no, and Edge continues to punish him. Matt Hardy refusing to quit makes a comeback and performs a brutal-looking DDT to Edge on the steel steps, but it doesn't last long when Lita distracts Matt and hits Matt with the MITB briefcase, leading to Edge to take control for a brief moment, but at this point the momentum keeps shifting back at forth, then Matt and Edge take the action back in the ring and Matt takes control with a ladder shot on Edge, Matt then sets Edge on the ladder, goes for a moonsault but misses and lands on the Ladder. After a minute or two of Edge destroying Matt with a trash can and strikes, they take the action up the stage for the real notable moment of this match, when after a minute of fighting on the stage, Matt performs a side effect on Edge off the stage dropping Edge right on his head, causing some of the electrical equipment around to spark and it's a real great spot to witness. The side effect off the stage causes the match to end a no-contest. Both men are stretched off and despite the no-contest ending, that ending spot with the side effect was just great and this match was just a all-out, entertaining brawl to watch. ****3/4*


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good reviews, Nostalgia. That Edge/Hardy match is a fun brawl. I can't recall but does that Edge set have the ladder match with Matt for the MITB briefcase from Raw 2005? Anyway, that's another good match between them that's worth checking out.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Good reviews, Nostalgia. That Edge/Hardy match is a fun brawl. *I can't recall but does that Edge set have the ladder match with Matt for the MITB briefcase from Raw 2005? Anyway, that's another good match between them that's worth checking out.*


It doesn't, but I've seen that match before, just not recently though, it's one of my other DVD's. Think my Ladder match one. I remember that match not lasting too long though, and it's not as good as their street fight or Cage match. May be worth a re-watch and review. I really enjoyed the Hardy/Edge feud from 2005.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh yeah, it's on the ladder match set. My bad. 

It's definitely not as good as some of their other matches but a solid Raw match nonetheless. I agree on your sentiments for the Edge/Hardy feud. Great stuff. Probably the best angle Matt's ever been involved in. A shame for him that it came from a real life 'problem'.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Best feud Matt Hardy had. Matt Hardy in 2005 was the peak of his career in terms of relevance, and it was one of the few times I actually enjoyed Matt Hardy's work. His cage match with Edge being Matt Hardy's best match in the WWE, and it could be argued that was Edge's best too. At least best gimmick match for him.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

People should watch the Hardy/Edge Summerslam '05 match. Its one of the best sub 10 minute matches the company has done. Both men work a very stiff and well orientated brawl with Edge especially surprising me and actually throwing stiff headbutts and punches which look impactful and not obviously pulled as I would have expected from him. Hardy's selling however is sensational and really puts over the angle and fear that Edge could end his career right there and then and combined with Edge approaching the match in a very un-Edge esque way its a really violent brawl that advances the angle and characters of both men superbly.

The Cage match is definitely their best match together and alongside the 6/22/07 Finlay match the best match Hardy ever had in WWE in any setting, but Summerslam is right there for me as their second best encounter. They do more in 8 minutes with a very territory esque approach in the pacing and offence that resonates better for me than their Street Fight & Ladder match on Raw.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Agreed, their Summerslam match is very good for the time they got. I remember at the time thinking it was legit because of the actual hate between the two and the way the match panned out. It simply looked like a fight rather than wrestling. I was only 14 though so I would have believed anything.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Helps that Edge threw some stiff punches, kicks and most importantly a shoot headbutt. He's a guy that would never strike me as excelling in a violent setting, simply because his offence always felt built for the spectacle of WWE without actually looking that impactful or good. I mean, there's a difference between doing numerous table bumps and then being able to throw good looking worked punches that look nasty and violent and sell the hatred in a match in a more authentic fashion. Edge always came off as a guy who could take numerous ladder and table bumps in a match but if you asked him to work a 'brawl' revolving around punches and offence it would expose him. To his credit he stepped up that night and showed a side to him I would never have imagined belonged. Though Hardy's babyface performance really needs commending.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah Edge has always excelled in gimmick matches, and that's not a knock on him by any means. But like you said, he wasn't the kind of guy to work a 'brawl' that well. For example, he couldn't mix it up with Lesnar now and make it look as good as HHH or Cena did.

I think both Edge and Hardy in that feud were excellent and deserve a lot of praise for working that well together despite having some major issues with each other at the time.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, I don't really think much of Edge really outside of a handful of matches tbh and don't consider him that great a gimmick worker, but yeah if he was 'suited' to any setting it would be the Ladder/TLC spectacles that would always pop the crowd. For personal taste reasons there's only 2 of his Ladder/TLC matches I actually really like, the Flair tite defence & TLC III on Smackdown in '01. Both matches are carried by other guys imo, mainly Flair's heroics in trying to capture the biggest title in the industry one last time in front of a hometown crowd & Benoit/Jericho as the herculean babyface team thrown into a gauntlet by McMahon & Austin.

I'll give Edge his due, he put in a very good shift in the Flair match. But I do think Flair's personal story and expressive charisma made him such a sympathetic babyface that the bulk of the emotion and storytelling stems directly from his performance. Edge isn't bad in that match by any means, but work the same match with a lesser guy than Flair at the time and I'm not convinced Edge has it in him to lead a guy in that setting to anything close to what he produced with Flair.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

From WOOLCOCK's recommendation, I checked out Edge vs Matt Hardy from Summerslam 2005 (link to the match if anyone else is interested in checking out: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/edge+vs+matt+hardy+summerslam/1#video=xw5mna)

My review:

This match is just something different, it's nasty, it's stiff, it's feels so legitimate and I can understand the appeal of a match like this. This match really showcased the hatred in their feud and the storytelling was very engaging, and Hardy put in a very good babyface performance here. All in all the match goes a mere 6 minutes, but it's a very good 6 minutes, the crowd I don't think realized what they were getting, but regardless they got very behind Hardy and there's very loud boos when Edge is declared the winner when Hardy couldn't continue. The last minute when Hardy's bleeding and Edge is repeatedly kicking him in the head was almost hard to watch. Edge's spear to Hardy through the ropes was a good spot from the match, and Edge dropping Hardy on the top of that ring post looked nasty and I assumed that legitimately opened him up. Edge's headbutt to Matt is something you would never see from him, and you can tell he legitimately hit him with how Edge's is holding is head in pain afterwards and Lita's looking on in concern perhaps not realizing how far they were going to go. 95% of this match is just stiff, punches, elbows, knees, kicks, and it's enjoyable and unique from the cookie-cutter standard WWE match you're used to seeing. Would highly recommend anyone to watch it, and because the match is so short, you're bound to have 6 minutes to kill.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hardy vs Edge series had to have been Edge's strongest work - outside of his work vs either Taker or in my case of personal bias, vs Angle. The Hardy vs Edge matches conveyed so much emotion b/c it WAS legit. Edge transcended to a different level when working with Hardy. He showed he can rely on such a sensitive catalyst to exceed past the norm and flow naturally into his work. All that coupled with the tremendous talents of Hardy and it meshed to an engaging product for the 3 months or so it was going. 

Summerslam
Street Fight from RAW
Unforgiven Steel Cage
Ladder Match from RAW

All four kind of rock. Ladder being the "weakest" of the bunch; not withstanding it is still pretty good. The heat coming from the others though, wow. About gone to the ends of the earth putting over the cage & it justifiably deserves every bit of praise. Summerslam war was nearly on par when you get down to it. So much intensity, credible, & believable hate stems through in LESS than four minutes. Ironically, it is almost unbelievable when you think about it. Kicks, punches, headbutts, dangerous spear through the ropes spot, & Matt's blade job all added the perfect confluence to put the first "official" match incredibly over the top. Street Fight is never spoken about in the same breathe as the PPV match - probably b/c it gets lost in the shuffle. It is more than enough to be compared as a great in-between match for the program. More hate was piled on. Brutal shots, intense atmosphere, & wild spots all added into the projection of build the program would reach for the Cage match. Matt wasn't intent on winning in the Street Fight that night. He wanted to _hurt_ Edge in that one. Program was a thing of beauty formed out of a ugly situation.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Hardy vs Edge series had to have been Edge's strongest work - outside of his work vs either Taker or in my case of personal bias, vs Angle. The Hardy vs Edge matches conveyed so much emotion b/c it WAS legit. Edge transcended to a different level when working with Hardy. He showed he can rely on such a sensitive catalyst to exceed past the norm and flow naturally into his work. All that coupled with the tremendous talents of Hardy and it meshed to an engaging product for the 3 months or so it was going.
> 
> Summerslam
> Street Fight from RAW
> ...


Damn good post. (Y)

I just checked the Wikipedia and the match actually only goes 4 minutes and 50 seconds, I was counting the time they brawled before the bell rang and thought it was 6 minutes. And that was a bladejob? Nearly always I can tell, but in a match like this with all the stiff, legitimate strikes they were throwing I wasn't sure. Would make sense when Edge dropped Hardy on that ring post and he was outside the ring for a few seconds to give him time to do it. If there's any recent match I could compare it too it would be Lesnar/Cena, at least in the aspect of a stiff, brutal match that you don't see often. Just watching two matches from this Edge/Hardy feud, it's reminds of how good their feud was and now I really want to watch their steel cage match again, which on the few times I've watched the match I have really enjoyed it and it's honestly my favorite cage match ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Damn good post. (Y)
> 
> I just checked the Wikipedia and the match actually only goes 4 minutes and 50 seconds, I was counting the time they brawled before the bell rang and thought it was 6 minutes. And that was a bladejob? Nearly always I can tell, but in a match like this with all the stiff, legitimate strikes they were throwing I wasn't sure. Would make sense when Edge dropped Hardy on that ring post and he was outside the ring for a few seconds to give him time to do it. If there's any recent match I could compare it too it would be Lesnar/Cena, at least in the aspect of a stiff, brutal match that you don't see often. Just watching two matches from this Edge/Hardy feud, it's reminds of how good their feud was and now I really want to watch their steel cage match again, which on the few times I've watched the match I have really enjoyed it and it's honestly my favorite cage match ever.


Yep. Short and definitely sweet. Almost certain it was a bladejob; mention of the alloted time with the ref in Edge's face giving Hardy the chance to do the job. It coupled in with the finish too, so I figured it was natural progression. Camera did a good job at not panning down on him to keep the mystery shrouded. I'll agree with the Brock/Cena comparison. It went to that "real" zone which puts it on a different plane than most other matches. Summerslam was utterly stiff. It's the headbutt which put it over the top for me. Punches were great, but the moment all caution was lifted to started throwing a bomb or two with the head, yep, it was ON. I've often acquainted it to like watching a modern day fight in the Coliseum - two men scratching and clawing to the death right before your very eyes. No weapons. No shenanigans. Only real, guttural passion to harm the other. Almost surreal. You have Benoit vs Jordan over in a flash - enter Hardy vs Edge - then you get slammed back into the kayfabe world of Eddie vs Mysterio in a ladder match over a child. It's like somewhere in the middle of the fun suspended reality of WWE world you get a glimpse of how life outside of the fuzzy barriers can be.

Probably my favorite cage match out there. For sure from WWF/WWE. Although I know I need to get on seeing Backlund vs Slaughter. That's the only one from the company that I think could give it any competition for #1. As a whole, the Final Conflict tag & Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard I Quit Cage are the only others who could compete for my number one spot. No indie cage matches are sticking out as #1 for me despite there being a few I love.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

So what's your opinion on Summerslam 2005 as a whole? Might as well throw that question out there to others as well. Because I'm just looking at the card now and I remember Taker/Orton being good, can't really remember Cena/Jericho or JBL/Batista, Hogan/HBK was ok, and I've never seen that Eddie/Mysterio ladder match. That Eddie/Mysterio ladder match is on my Ladder match DVD and it's one of the few matches I haven't watched from that DVD because I hated that feud at the time over Dominick, and how they had Eddie turn because he couldn't beat Mysterio and kept constantly losing to him.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Where would you guys rank these 3 classic matches on your greatest of all time list?

Triple H/Benoit/HBK - WM20
Bret/Austin - WM13
Taker/HBK - WM26


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's actually quite the event overall. Everything worked. From the great Taker vs Orton match, to the good Eddie vs Mysterio ladder match - stipulation was horrible, but I mean look at the cats involved. They're the best. Eddie's heel work in 2005 was epic so naturally I'll get behind it even with the dip of WWE tripe it went towards. Small potatoes as the match ended up working. Benoit vs Jordan was a hell of a moment. Nobody cared that it wasn't a match; Benoit got his justification in winning the championship. Always will mark for the moment. And it led to some Benoit comedy segments on the Smackdown's following. A rarity. Angle vs Eugene was a decent little match. Crowd being hot for Angle made for a hot atmosphere. Batista vs JBL was decent at best if not still a success from their boring affair from GAB. Hogan vs HBK worked for me. I actually don't dislike it. Actually, I kind of like it. Hogan blades like a champ & Michaels hams it up for some original HBK nostalgia. Cena vs Jericho was probably the MOTN for me over Hardy vs Edge with the advantage of time (as if it REALLY means too much, b/c Hardy vs Edge was more than great with only 5 minutes) Without trailing off I'll get back on topic: Cena vs Jericho was REALLY hot - had a lot of x-factors needed to allow it to pop on the card. Seemed to capture a good blend of what made their 2008 series so enthralling. The World Championship series was basically a split of this Summerslam match. The ground game, storytelling of the first portion & the fast flurry to end things speaks towards both Survivor Series & Armageddon 2008, respectively.

Quite a few could be interchangeable for personal MOTN. A quality I feel is a great sign of a great PPV.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> It's actually quite the event overall. Everything worked. From the great Taker vs Orton match, to the good Eddie vs Mysterio ladder match - stipulation was horrible, but I mean look at the cats involved. They're the best. Eddie's heel work in 2005 was epic so naturally I'll get behind it even with the dip of WWE tripe it went towards. Small potatoes as the match ended up working. Benoit vs Jordan was a hell of a moment. Nobody cared that it wasn't a match; Benoit got his justification in winning the championship. Always will mark for the moment. And it led to some Benoit comedy segments on the Smackdown's following. A rarity. Angle vs Eugene was a decent little match. Crowd being hot for Angle made for a hot atmosphere. Batista vs JBL was decent at best if not still a success from their boring affair from GAB. Hogan vs HBK worked for me. I actually don't dislike it. Actually, I kind of like it. Hogan blades like a champ & Michaels hams it up for some original HBK nostalgia. Cena vs Jericho was probably the MOTN for me over Hardy vs Edge with the advantage of time (as if it REALLY means too much, b/c Hardy vs Edge was more than great with only 5 minutes) Without trailing off I'll get back on topic: Cena vs Jericho was REALLY hot - had a lot of x-factors needed to allow it to pop on the card. Seemed to capture a good blend of what made their 2008 series so enthralling. The World Championship series was basically a split of this Summerslam match. The ground game, storytelling of the first portion & the fast flurry to end things speaks towards both Survivor Series & Armageddon 2008, respectively.
> 
> Quite a few could be interchangeable for personal MOTN. A quality I feel is a great sign of a great PPV.


I'm going to be honest, I didn't really like Eddie as heel. He was such a likeable face who was I felt they didn't need to turn just to put Rey over, and by the end of his run he was showing signs of reverting back to classic Eddie character, but then he tragically died...  I may have to finally give that match a watch sometime despite how much I hated the feud. I'm a sucker for ladder matches though... Benoit vs Jordan was hilarious, and I remember the follow up matches on Smackdown. But man, did it bury Jordan. Jordan was an important member of JBL's cabinet, held the US Title half the year, but never recovered after the Benoit thing, not that I care though, never liked the guy, it's just funny though. :lol Angle vs Eugene sounds funny, anytime Eugene got destroyed in a match I'm ok with it, HATED him. HBK's selling made that match Hogan/HBK match enjoyable. As I said, I can't remember much of Cena/Jericho or JBL/Batista, but if you say they're good I might have to check them out. So overall definitely a PPV to get then?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I'm going to be honest, I didn't really like Eddie as heel. He was such a likeable face who was I felt they didn't need to turn just to put Rey over, and by the end of his run he was showing signs of reverting back to classic Eddie character, but then he tragically died...  I may have to finally give that match a watch sometime despite how much I hated the feud. I'm a sucker for ladder matches though... Benoit vs Jordan was hilarious, and I remember the follow up matches on Smackdown. But man, did it bury Jordan. Jordan was an important member of JBL's cabinet, held the US Title half the year, but never recovered after the Benoit thing, not that I care though, never liked the guy, it's just funny though. :lol Angle vs Eugene sounds funny, anytime Eugene got destroyed in a match I'm ok with it, HATED him. HBK's selling made that match Hogan/HBK match enjoyable. As I said, I can't remember much of Cena/Jericho or JBL/Batista, but if you say they're good I might have to check them out. So overall definitely a PPV to get then?


Absolutely. Well worth owning.

Eddie as a heel was bliss. He was just as good as a heel if not better than when he was a face. All on the account of how he make someone so likable become detestable at the drop of a hat. That's talent. He was the star of 1997 from WCW thanks to his heel work and it was much of the same come 2005 in his program vs Mysterio. So much of what I put over from Eddie often stems from his ability as a heel.

Jordan's push was fleeting by the feel of it. Felt they only kept the belt on him for no logical reason till Benoit unseated him and that was that. He was going to do the dress/bi-sexual gimmick, only he left for some reason _(think it may have been hazing, not really sure)_ and it was saddled up on Vito instead. The seeds for that were planted for a long time it turns out.

Eugene, haha. I liked him as a kid during his 2004 run. His return from injury is where I stopped caring for the gimmick. Nick Dinsmore was quite the wrestler though. Too bad he got a mentality handicapped gimmick and he slowly became a joke during his WWE tenure. Match vs Angle is a fun sprint of a match.

Cena vs Jericho has to be viewed. Got to refresh your memory on it as it is very good. I'll get on the ball of reviewing all their matches on day. All I know is their PPV matches killed it. About as good as you'd want from a one way kind of stand point.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Well I haven't seen any of Eddie's other heel work except from his feud with Rey, but that Eddie/Edge match I reviewed earlier Eddie was a heel in that. Seemed to come off as more generic heel sort in that match, but I don't know, what was he like in 2002? It's not Eddie as a heel made me hate him, I just felt it was unnecessary turn, his whole heel run just came as weird to me, I couldn't really buy into it. He certainly got the crowd to hate him then, when the crowd would love him months prior, so he knew what to do and played the role effectively, but you have to take into account Mysterio was popular babyface and the feud over Dominick was creepy and that's going to rub some people the wrong way.

Got any STARZ for Summerslam then?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just threw in the Hell in a Cell DVD (Disc 2). Jericho/Trips was pretty good, but now on Taker/Lesnar.

Holy cow. So much greatness in Taker/Lesnar. The thing that amazes me is that Brock was still only 24 years old and was a tremedous monster heel. He worked on Taker's broken hand, and Taker's selling was terrific. This match was a freaking blood bath; both guys covered in their own blood (and probably each others). I loved Brock swinging from the top of the cell and kicking Taker while Taker was on the top turnbuckle. Some great nearfalls at the end, with Brock kicking out of the chokeslam and getting the ropes after taking the Last Ride. 

Epic moment at the end when Brock climbs the cage and poses with the belt. 

Trips/Nash is next. Don't remember this being great, but the promo is pretty nice.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Well I haven't seen any of Eddie's other heel work except from his feud with Rey, but that Eddie/Edge match I reviewed earlier Eddie was a heel in that. Seemed to come off as more generic heel sort in that match, but I don't know, what was he like in 2002? It's not Eddie as a heel made me hate him, I just felt it was unnecessary turn, his whole heel run just came as weird to me, I couldn't really buy into it. He certainly got the crowd to hate him then, when the crowd would love him months prior, so he knew what to do and played the role effectively, but you have to take into account Mysterio was popular babyface and the feud over Dominick was creepy and that's going to rub some people the wrong way.
> 
> Got any STARZ for Summerslam then?


Eddie made going heel from being an over face work numerous times. From 2000 splitting with Chyna, to like I said with his WCW work, or even dating back to the Gringos Locos tandem with Art Barr. Eddie as a heel is always a raging success.

Benoit vs Jordan ~ N/R
Hardy vs Edge ~ ****
Eddie vs Mysterio ~ ***1/2
Angle vs Eugene ~ **
Undertaker vs Orton ~ ****
Cena vs Jericho ~ ****
Batista vs JBL ~ **
Hogan vs Michaels ~ ***

(Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So I went and re-watched all my top 10 matches on my list (which was all my ***** matches) and re-rated them. After that, I now only have four ***** matches left. I'll post em tomorrow, but I'll give a couple of hints in case anyone wants to guess what they are for the fun of it:

-One of the matches on the list I never see given *****, but it is a very highly rated match generally.
-One match that (almost) everyone I've seen has at ***** is not given the full 5 from me anymore.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

EVAN FUCKING' LUNDRIGAN IS HIGH AND DRUNK OUT OF HIS MIND RIGHT NOW ABOUT TO GET ON HIS DUNGEON SHIT.

Join the fucking train man. Shout out to *Clique* for his boss review of both the Steve Austin and Owen matches on this third disc, everybody needs to check out that shit immediately. Bret may be a complete fucking mark for his own work, but the guy was a real world's champion who took his shit seriously and got it done night in and night out. He could sell with the best, craft a comeback and work a body part with the best, and although his character work might not have been elite at times, he's still the fucking man.

HITMAN.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Back from the houseshow I went to.

In all honestly, the main event of Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback gets about ****1/2 out of me. It was insanely good. Jericho/Ziggler (no dq!)was very good as well. Cesaro/Kofi/Miz was fun as hell. No Punk though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

***** 1/2 ?!?!?!*

Damn. Ambrose and the boys putting in work.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rollins was the MVP of it, imo. He was going toe to toe with Cena for much of the match.

Reigns and Ambrose are fucking intense people. :lmao

By far the best match I've ever been to.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm convinced that the Shield is going to deliver greatness no matter what. FUCK, their Mania match might steal the show for all we know.

All 3 should be cornerstones of the company in the future.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm amazed that they didn't even have Superfriends go over them at a houseshow. They only won by DQ. Makes me really think they see something in them because usually WWE would give Cena the win in New England at a houseshow, regardless of the opponent. And while they did win and still sent the fans home happy, I think it speaks volumes that The Shield looked as strong as they did and didn't lose clean.

I'm really hoping all three stay successful with the company. I'm just very, very worried that WWE might get panicky once they get their first loss.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If the Shield loses at Wrestlemania I'm probably going to put the nearest small child in the crossface.

Hoping they go undefeated and take over the WWE until perhaps something happens like Punk and Cena need to put their differences aside in order to take out the Shield or some shit like that .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've always thought of how awesome a Punk/Cena alliance would be. I've done that in the last 3 WWE video games at some point or another.

I'd love The Shield to go over at Mania since I don't think Sheamus/Orton/Ryback is the right team to hand them their first loss.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Whats everyones favourite PPV from WWF in 2000? I'm thinking of downloading a 2000 PPV pack.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> EVAN FUCKING' LUNDRIGAN IS HIGH AND DRUNK OUT OF HIS MIND RIGHT NOW ABOUT TO GET ON HIS DUNGEON SHIT.
> 
> Join the fucking train man. Shout out to *Clique* for his boss review of both the Steve Austin and Owen matches on this third disc, everybody needs to check out that shit immediately. Bret may be a complete fucking mark for his own work, but the guy was a real world's champion who took his shit seriously and got it done night in and night out. He could sell with the best, craft a comeback and work a body part with the best, and although his character work might not have been elite at times, he's still the fucking man.
> 
> HITMAN.


:lol

It's one of those drunk nights for everybody. At least you and I both. Boosh.



Pierre McDunk said:


> Rollins was the MVP of it, imo. He was going toe to toe with Cena for much of the match.
> 
> Reigns and Ambrose are fucking intense people. :lmao
> 
> By far the best match I've ever been to.


Rollins IMO 



King Kenny said:


> Whats everyones favourite PPV from WWF in 2000? I'm thinking of downloading a 2000 PPV pack.


Fully Loaded 2000.

Watched half of it tonight. :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cody, Rollins friggin' OWNED. He was taunting the fans so hard earlier in the night too, after they beatdown Ryder randomly. :lmao

And Fully Loaded '00 is great. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

Ryder even gets jobber treatment on House Shows. That got a chuckle out of me.

Fully Loaded is boss. Weakest match would probably be the tag team championship - which only has the less than beneficial "too short" moniker behind it to warrant it as the "weakest" bout. You want to talk about fun, then Fully Loaded 2000 is right up that alley. What a crowd too. Unbelievably electric. The opener is a firecracker.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Rikishi spot. :mark:

Looking at the card, I remember very little of Taker/Angle and Saturn/Eddie. But I can certainly see them being good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Angle isn't. Only about 7 minutes and Angle does some bleh leg work (Taker's leg was injured during the night) & then Taker makes a swift comeback to own Angle. That's about it. Only match of their's that was honestly underwhelming.

Eddie vs Saturn is quality. Eddie flies all over the place meanwhile Saturn relies on his power to stop Eddie in his tracks at every turn. Good match. Saturn KILLS Chyna during it too. Spanish Announcers weren't pleased :lol


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

check out my royal rumble 1997 thread. 

looks like I'll have to watch fully loaded 2000 :hayden2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Posted ~!

Do so man. It's quality stuff. Although I did just realize I deemed the Tag Championship as the weakest when obviously Taker vs Angle is. Stupid alcohol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DRUNK CODY?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only buzzed now that it has worn off.

I should get me some '98 PPVs from WCW right now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Got finished rewatching SummerSlam 1991. WHAT A SHOW. The hot opener and DiBiase/Virgil are really good; the whole midcard isn't bad at all, even the Jailhouse Match is fun as hell; Bret/Perfect is an all-time classic; the Handicap Match sucks but is memorable for the backstage intercations between Vince and Warrior before and after; and then you had the Savage/Elizabeth wedding, which is incredible. Up there with 1998 and 2002 as one of the GOAT SSlams.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Nevermind.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Survivior Series '98 & WM 23 are up on "WWE on Demand".

Survivor Series was crap the last time i watched it.
After watching Cena's matches with HHH & Michaels at WM, i still think both are simply ok.
His match at NOC with HHH was great and i havent seen his two RAW matches with Michaels.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Missed the Benoit/Angle discussions a few pages back. 

I knew I can't be the only one who never really liked the match as much as others. I've seen about 2, maybe 3 times. The first time I saw it (this was before knowing it was such a highly regarded match) I didn't think much of it. After realizing it was considered to be WWE's GOAT time match, I gave it a second watch. And somewhere along the line, I'm pretty sure a third watch came along. All 3 times my reaction after was "Meh"

CAL's review nicely summarizes my thoughts on the match as well. The flying headbutt :cuss: Why the hell did they not work the control segment there?

I don't know but Benoit and Angle in the ring together will always be nothing but a back and forth german suplex off tome.

I saw someone note that Benoit/Angle had the sense of competition. Am I one of the few people that just doesn't care at all for competition? I don't know it's just weird for me to treat a scripted and fake match as if it were a legit competition. I could suspend disbelief but what I can't do is pretend that it's something that it's not.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> EVAN FUCKING' LUNDRIGAN IS HIGH AND DRUNK OUT OF HIS MIND RIGHT NOW ABOUT TO GET ON HIS DUNGEON SHIT.
> 
> Join the fucking train man. Shout out to *Clique* for his boss review of both the Steve Austin and Owen matches on this third disc, everybody needs to check out that shit immediately. Bret may be a complete fucking mark for his own work, but the guy was a real world's champion who took his shit seriously and got it done night in and night out. He could sell with the best, craft a comeback and work a body part with the best, and although his character work might not have been elite at times, he's still the fucking man.
> 
> HITMAN.


Just post the damn review!  I'm ready for someone to tell me I'm crazy for thinking the Undertaker match is best of the set.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Missed the Benoit/Angle discussions a few pages back.
> 
> I knew I can't be the only one who never really liked the match as much as others. I've seen about 2, maybe 3 times. The first time I saw it (this was before knowing it was such a highly regarded match) I didn't think much of it. After realizing it was considered to be WWE's GOAT time match, I gave it a second watch. And somewhere along the line, I'm pretty sure a third watch came along. All 3 times my reaction after was "Meh"
> 
> ...


Yea, In my opinion, It's really hard to produce great chemistry when you have two wrestlers whose styles are very similar. For example, Taker/Austin never got "classic" matches out of each other, I think their best match is around ****

I have the same thoughts towards Benoit/Angle too but i'll admit Bret/Benoit on Nitro was awesome, Don't know why it's not on Cal's top 100 WCW matches .


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I just post this here because I don't know where else I should.










Does anybody know what segment that was?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Back from the houseshow I went to.
> 
> In all honestly, the main event of Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback gets about ****1/2 out of me. It was insanely good. Jericho/Ziggler (no dq!)was very good as well. Cesaro/Kofi/Miz was fun as hell. No Punk though.


Damn, The Shield delivering hard even at house shows. (Y) I believe they very could well put on the MOTN at WrestleMania. 

Jericho/Ziggler makes me think is there still any of chance of this match happening at Mania? :side: The idea of Ziggler and Langston vs Hell No for Tag Titles sucks, and fuck the idea of Jericho vs Fandango at WrestleMania.



HayleySabin said:


> Benoit vs Jordan ~ N/R
> Hardy vs Edge ~ ****
> Eddie vs Mysterio ~ ***1/2
> Angle vs Eugene ~ **
> ...


Thanks. (Y)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

@RevolverSnake - I think that was from a Punk promo on the Raw a week before Taker returned. So the week before 'Old School Raw'.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

In honor of St. Patrick's Day, I'm tempted to just watch a shit load of FINLAY matches today.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> @RevolverSnake - I think that was from a Punk promo on the Raw a week before Taker returned. So the week before 'Old School Raw'.


Alright, thank you. Will check it out.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

SummerSlam 2005 is, IMO, the second-best SS event ever, after '02, of course. What's amazing to me is that I remember anticipating it all summer, from maybe June on, and still lived up to the hype. Back in 2005, WWE turned their PPVS around from WrestleMania to Vengeance, which were all good to great, so I anticipated SummerSlam even more. The event is not perfect, but it's still one of the best ppvs ever.

Jordan/Benoit - ** - This was essentially an apology for their first match: an eternal, 14-minute dud in which OJ went over. The only result we wanted to see was Benoit winning, and this was the first time I saw one of those 20-second squash victories, and it was great. Awesome way to start the show.

Hardy/Edge - *3/4 - Kind of like Cena/Lesnar from ER in that it creates a surreal, realistic environment. Here, it's for obvious reasons. The brawl was intense, and they got in a real fight in the amound of time a real fight would take place. I was disappointed that it was so short, but it made sense since the feud was just starting. Edge winning was a shocker, but it left the feud open to continue.

Eddie/Rey - **** - I loved how this feud developed, I loved Eddie as a heel, and I thought, despite the botches, this was a great ladder match and semi-blow-off to their feud.

Angle/Eugene - *3/4 - Angle gained nuclear heat for this one, and the match was fun while it lasted, but I would rather have seen a little more action, since we already had two under-five-minute squashes on the show.

Undertaker/Orton - ***3/4 - Because of the environment, it simply doesn't have the same stakes as their match at WM. That said, it's a damn good match, almost as good as the first.

Cena/Jericho - ***3/4 Great semi-main event, a fun wrestling match that never lets up and has some great twists. Probably the best pure wrestling match of the night. Five more minutes and it could have been a classic.

Batista/JBL - **3/4 - Like OJ/Benoit, this match is a complete apology for their disaster a month earlier. That match was an ETERNAL TWENTY MINUTES LONG, ended in a DQ, and with JBL winning. It was awful. This cut to the chase, cut out the bs, and had they brawl through the crowd, outside the ring, hit some nice spots, had a great finish, and did it all in 9 minutes. These two had zero chemistry, and this was the best match around it.

Hogan/HBK - **** I'm a huge Hogan mark and HBK is probably my favorite of all time, so this was truly a dream match to me, and I still watch it so excited to know that it even happened. The buildup was red-hot, so intense, so realistic, and so entertaining. The match itself is the defition of a carry job, and while HBK's overselling means to make a statement, it works for the match. The atmosphere in the match is just so tense, even before the blood, and the action is always exciting. Was definitely disappointed that it had such a typical Hogan ending, but the match itself is great, IMO, shame we never got the rematch.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes, he is.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2005 is a great one, but certainly not one of the best SSlams imo. 2002, 1998 and 1991 are the GOAT, followed by 1992, 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2011. Then 2008, and THEN 05.

Worst SSlam is 1993. Other than the 6-Man Tag, nothing truly worthy of more than OK. Perfect/HBK might be the biggest dissapointment in history, moreso than Lesnar/Goldberg.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm not as high on Summerslam 05 as others but still enjoyed it a lot.

Benoit/Jordan: DUD (Fun moment but it was still only 20 seconds and Benoit winning the US Title so it wasn't too big)
Hardy/Edge: *** (Damn this should have gotten more time, great stiff brawl, which was unexpected considering who it was)
Eddie/Rey: ***
Angle/Eugene: *
Taker/Orton: ***1/2 (great match, their 2005 feud just pulled up gold)
Cena/Jericho: **** 
Batista/JBL: **
Hogan/HBK: Never seen this match, i don't think i ever will tbh.

Random match rating

Cena/Punk - NOC 12.

Love this match, it's a great Cena/Punk match as to be expected but it's the little things in this match that just make me love it even more everytime i watch it, such as Punk wearing Yankee's colours in Boston (I know it was a way of making people boo Punk more because even when he was a heel back here he was still loved) but let's face it, it worked. (Once again props to Heyman for coming up with that one) 

It's the mannerisms of both men as well, Punk holding the title up to the crowd for an eternity is just the epitome of douchebag heel and Cena watching, concentrating, knowing that this is his big chance in his home town to defeat a man who has had his number since 2011.

As i've said, the match is great but that was obvious as it always is with Punk/Cena. Yes the finish is a bit of a copout but remember this was the match which was to lead to the epic final confrontation in HIAC which never happened. So it was needed to make both look equal going into the next PPV.

*****1/2*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm so so so tempted to do the top 25/30/40/50 Summerslam matches of all time. Could be an absolute blast, tbh. Might start it after Wrestlemania, so I'm going to get downloading now. 

Edit: XWT isn't working. That's pissed on my cornflakes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 2005 is absolutely awesome. I love how loud the crowd is when Benoit makes Jordan tap out. Some are surprised and the rest are making mad noise. Like BGL said, that match and Batista/JBL street fight were their apology for the mistakes they made in TGAB by having the former be won by Jordan and making the latter a twenty minute DUD with a shitty finish.

Fuck the Batista/JBL feud. Don't know why they were so eager to get it going when it ended up being complete shit and JBL in the main event was staler than Cena as champion in 2007.

And I kind of feel like downloading every SummerSlam and watch them from start to finish. Problem is, I don't really see much interest in most of the old stuff and it's hard for me to watch a show with zero knowledge of the storylines heading into it.

ALMOST FINISHED WITH VENGEANCE 06.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Summerslam 2011 is legit great top to bottom, though:

6-Man Tag: ***
Henry/Sheamus: ***
Kelly/Beth: **3/4
Bryan/Barrett: ****
Christian/Orton: ****1/2
Punk/Cena: ****1/4
Punk/ADR: N/R, but gets OMG rating for shock of seeing LOLNASH

Almost equals MITB that year in quality terms imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I haven't watched it since the time, but I can remember thinking that if Henry/Sheamus had an extra five minutes and had a proper finish, it could have been top 5 MOTY for the WWE. Need to see those two go toe to toe for 15 minutes. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker vs Evolution at Mania:

vs HHH I - ****1/4
vs Flair - ***3/4
vs Orton - ****
vs Batista - ****1/2
vs HHH II - ****1/2
vs HHH III - *****

Incredible.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Summerslam 2005

Chris Benoit vs Orlando Jordan : *N/A (*********** Stars though)*
Matt Hardy vs Edge : **** 1/2 (Needed more time, was on pace to be one of the greatest matches in company history)*
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio : *** 1/2 (Overrated.)*
Kurt Angle vs Eugene : ** (EUGENE GETS DESTROYED YAY)*
The Undertaker vs Randy Orton : ***** (MOTN)*
John Cena vs Chris Jericho : **** 1/4 (Needs a rewatch badly)*
Batista vs JBL : **** (FUN. FUN. FUN.)*
Hulk Hogan vs Shawn Michaels : **** 1/4 (SHAWN DA GAWD)*


Going to meet Bret AGAIN in two months more than likely, one of the only guys in the world who I would pay my money to meet and talk about wrestling to twice. He legit seems to LOVE talking about the psychology and storytelling of various guys in the business and give his take on certain matches and moments from throughout history. Last time I met him we just sat and talked about him in comparison to Flair (he obviously thinks he's better), saying how Flair was more like Hogan in the sense that he had a formula that he used to plug guys into, but Flair was 73643x more gifted than Hogan. 

I think I'm going to ask him about HHH again :lol.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

ATF said:


> 2005 is a great one, but certainly not one of the best SSlams imo. 2002, 1998 and 1991 are the GOAT, followed by 1992, 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2011. Then 2008, and THEN 05.
> 
> Worst SSlam is 1993. Other than the 6-Man Tag, nothing truly worthy of more than OK. Perfect/HBK might be the biggest dissapointment in history, moreso than Lesnar/Goldberg.


No love for 2009? 

Mysterio/Ziggler, DX/Legacy, Orton/Cena, Hardy/Punk.

There's a lot of Summerslams I'll take over 2005.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> No love for 2009?
> 
> Mysterio/Ziggler, DX/Legacy, Orton/Cena, Hardy/Punk.
> 
> There's a lot of Summerslams I'll take over 2005.


Oh yeah, forgot about 09. And 1997 as well.

2005 might've been dope in every aspect, too for its Big 4 (RR, WM21, SSlam and SS were all great), but regardless of its quality I would take a lot of SSlams over 05 too.

Royal Rumble and Survivor Series that year are fucking overlooked btw.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Oh yeah, forgot about 09. And 1997 as well.
> 
> 2005 might've been dope in every aspect, too for its Big 4 (RR, WM21, SSlam and SS were all great), but regardless of its quality I would take a lot of SSlams over 05 too.


What's the best year for 'Big 4' PPVs?

2001 might be the best. 2005 as ATF mentioned is good, but I think 'Mania 21 brings it down slightly due to the lackluster main events. Any more?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Summerslam 2005:

Benoit/Jordan- N/A
Hardy/Edge- ***1/2
Mysterio/Eddie- ***
Eugene/Angle- ****( Eugene getting destroyed, means ratings )
Orton/Taker- ***1/4
Jericho/Cena- ***
Batista/JBL- **
HBK/Hogan- ***1/4


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's the best year for 'Big 4' PPVs?
> 
> 2001 might be the best. 2005 as ATF mentioned is good, but I think 'Mania 21 brings it down slightly due to the lackluster main events. Any more?


2003 was a pretty great year for the Big 4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's the best year for 'Big 4' PPVs?
> 
> 2001 might be the best. 2005 as ATF mentioned is good, but I think 'Mania 21 brings it down slightly due to the lackluster main events. Any more?


2001 like ya said:
- RR has, apart from Ivory/Chyna, no match under ***1/2, 2nd to 2000 as the GOAT Rumble; 
- WM 17, nuff said;
- SSlam's stuff is top to bottom awesome (except for the cage match);
- SS has a very good midcard topped off by Team WWF/Team Alliance.

1992, 1998 and 2007 are contenders too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2008 too


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

-Mystery- said:


> 2003 was a pretty great year for the Big 4.


Yeah, not my favourite Rumble match and it also includes HHH/Steiner argh but Benoit/Angle makes up for it. Obviously WM19 is gold, and Summerslam and Survivor Series are very good too.

2004 was pretty solid as well. Excellent Rumble PPV, excellent Mania, ok Summerslam and good Survivor Series. I still think 2001 takes the cake, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2003 and 2004, not that great. For 03, WM 19 and SummerSlam are gold, but Survivor Series is kinda a one-match show, and the Royal Rumble has a pretty poor midcard. And same for 04 - the Rumble match saves the PPV, though I like HHH/HBK, and SummerSlam is subpar as hell, though WM 20 and Survivor Series are very good.

2002 should be mentioned too: terrific Rumble, OK show in WM 18, and the GOAT SummerSlam and Survivor Series.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, that period between 2001-2005 is where the Big 4 shows were usually at least good. Most of them very good. Then it all started to go downhill, and Survivor Series especially has been awful the last few years.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TWO MORE MATCHES LEFT ON THE DUNGEON COLLECTION :mark:

This DVD man. Give me a DVD with consistent ****+* matches that aren't repeats over a three disc set with a bunch of *****+* matches that have been double dipped over and over again, the WWE needs to learn something from this shit honestly. GIVE US A AUSTIN/SHAWN/TAKER/FLAIR UNRELEASED SET NOW PLZ.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

As much as I love 2004, I don't think it was all that great for the Big 4. Rumble was a one-match show (the Rumble which is awesome), Mania was too long and had a fair amount of skippable stuff, SummerSlam was okay with a great main event and Survivor Series was the only real great show from top to bottom.

*Vengeance 2006:*

Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle - ★★★½
- Don't know how smart it was to open the show with one of the best matches on the card but this is finally Orton getting his comeuppance after being embarrassed by Angle for months. Very good match with Orton doing his vintage heelish stuff and Angle doing his wrestling machine stuff. The eight Germans spot was a tough one and Orton's selling and facial expressions throughout were golden. Crowd is dead at times but the quality of the match is enough to make up for it to me. I definitely think these two are capable of more, but at least we'll have this match to remember for as long as Angle wants to stay in TNA. It was also nice of him to put over Orton in his final match of relevance.

Umaga vs Eugene - 0
- SQUASH MATCH. Next.

Ric Flair vs Mick Foley - ★★
- Pretty entertaining build-up and Foley has a lot of heat in Flair Country here. Also liked the backstage interview of him reading what Flair says about him in his book. Match is also interesting with Foley trying to _wrestle_ Flair at first but then losing the first fall pretty fast. The second one doesn't last long either as Foley escapes a Figure Four by using a trashcan on Flair's head. He gets DQed and destroys The Naitch post-match with all sorts of weapons. I don't know why fans look so concerned when Flair heavily bleeding is about as natural as breathing. Too short and more like a story advancer for their "I Quit" match where they go all out.

Johnny Nitro vs Shelton Benjamin vs Carlito - ★★★
- A decent, well paced three way for the Intercontinental Title here. Lots of back and forth involving all three and one memorable spot with the clichéd Powerbomb/Superplex combo which is as impressive as ever. Nitro picks up the win in the end but I can't say much here because my memory is not that good of this one. The falling asleep disease was up on me last night too while I was watching this so therefore, I'll just say this much.

Rob Van Dam vs Edge - ★★★¾
- Match of the night here. For almost 20 minutes, they do a very good job at putting on an entertaining back and forth with some nasty spots such as the two Powerbombs by Edge on the outside and the Van Daminator into the belt that cuts Edge too deep above his left eye. Interesting to see half the crowd being against RVD as the chants of his name are continued by another portion of the crowd with "sucks". Edge tries to Spear RVD into a chair for the win but it backfires as RVD ducks and Edge goes face first into the chair followed by the Frog Splash for the finish. Great match.

Kane vs Impostor Kane - ½★
- Fuck, this is just awful. Match is slow as shit to the point you think the video is set to slow motion. That said, the story is also terribly rushed nonsense and the crowd is completely dead for this. No idea why the fake Kane won this at all.

John Cena vs Sabu - ★★½
- Just an all-over-the-place fight with the lumberjacks around and not much regular wrestling. Sabu does his usual spots that pop the crowd and Cena gets right back at him with the use of chairs as well as some of his trademark moves. Not very interesting but short and fun to watch. The FU to the table on the outside looked pretty bad. Cena wins with the STFU which was not a very popular decision with the smarks but he wins and finally moves on from this ECW feud.

DX vs Spirit Squad - ★
- DX squashing the cheerleaders around was fun for about 5 minutes. Now they've dragged this for over 2 months and there's no fun in this at all. Doesn't help that match goes on for about 20 minutes and I don't really find much humor in most of the things done as I find them childish and unfunny. Other than DX's reunion, HBK and HHH post-Backlash have had such a terrible year with this Vince McMahon/Spirit Squad nonsense. This is supposed to be comedy but comedy is not meant to bore the shit out of you.

*Overall:* ★★¼ out of ★★★★★ (Two very good matches and two decent ones while the rest of the PPV sucks. Unfortunately, nothing is really GREAT beyond being on the border of it so therefore, this is not all that and probably the worst PPV in 2006 so far.)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Is there even such a thing as the big 4 any more? It's pretty much just the big 1 in WM. Maybe big 2 since the RR has the Rumble match. But SS and SS are usually complete trash and the Rumble undercard has been atrocious the last few years.

Oh hey, WM 7 review in my BLOG~! Last time I watched Savage/Warrior, I didn't think much to it? What about now? HUH? DID I LIKE IT MORE? OR MAYBE I HATED IT? GO READ IT YOU PLEBS... I MEAN, VERY NICE PEOPLE. EXCEPT YOU. YEAH, YOU. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. BASICALLY IF YOU AREN'T SURE IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE NICE PEOPLE OR NOT. THEN YOU AREN'T.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Ever Wolf said:


> Love this match, it's a great Cena/Punk match as to be expected but it's the little things in this match that just make me love it even more everytime i watch it, such as Punk wearing Yankee's colours in Boston (I know it was a way of making people boo Punk more because even when he was a heel back here he was still loved) but let's face it, it worked. (Once again props to Heyman for coming up with that one)


Yeah same. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I also loved it as a callback to Punk's "You're the New York Yankees" MITB 2011 go home promo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Since the 2004 Rumble was mentioned, I have to come out and say that I fucking DESPISE that undercard more than any Rumble undercard in history. Brock gets matched up with Hardcore fucking Holly of all people, Triple H and Shawn have a terribly structured and downright awful Last Man Standing match that I honestly believe may be worse than the Armageddon match, CHAVO gets PPV singles time, the opening match is shitty as fuck, and Rey-Noble only gets three minutes. If you can think of a more DISGUSTING undercard I'd love to hear it (not really, I'd hate to hear it).

ACTUALLY HOLD ON A FUCKING MINUTE.....

*Cal* has a blog? Since when ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RR 06's undercard (whole card, actually) disgusts me more than 04's.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> RR 06's undercard (whole card, actually) disgusts me more than 04's.


Agreed, especially the title matches (if you count them as the undercard, despite going on after the Rumble.) Cena takes the belt off Edge despite Edge shocking the world with the cash-in and only holding it for three weeks? Boo. Plus Henry/Angle had no business main eventing, even if it was just for 'Takers return and the ring collapse schtick.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alright, working on a WM rankings project. Ratings for OPENERZ at WM?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I think I'm going to ask him about HHH again :lol.


Can you record that conversation, please?

I dislike Hogan so much, that HBK's overselling at Summerslam makes the match for me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

To me it's the big 3. RR, WM and Summerslam. I still consider Summerslam to be a big PPV cause the booking round that time is usually good and there's a big fight feel to some matches. Survivor Series on the other hand, how the hell is that a big PPV anymore? I mean the tag matches are fun to watch but the build to them is non-existent.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> I think I'm going to ask him about HHH again :lol.


4/10. Wouldn't rank a question about HHH in my top 1000.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I watched D-Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler from Bragging Rights last night and boy is it a hard match for me to rate. I keep having mixed reactions to it. On one hand it feels like a great match but on the other it feels like a glorified TV match. I don't know. It's just a match I have so much trouble finding a rating for. One minute it feels as if I'm watching a **** match but by the end it feels like it's anywhere between ***1/2-***3/4. Anyone else find it just a weird match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Ziggler is my second favorite match of 2010 and I love it to death. It's another match that is based more on "competition" and "bragging rights" rather than a big storyline surrounding it, but both guys do a great job. I love how well they were able to get the crowd into their match even without much of a build. I can definitely see why some would consider it similar to a "TV match", but I personally am not bothered by that. Lots of fun, and at the end of the day, what more can you ask from a match?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I don't get the "TV match" feel to a match. If i enjoy the match, i enjoy the match.

Coincidentally i do like that match ****3/4*


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

D-Bry and Dolph from Bragging Rights is a great match, but something about it doesn't quite take it over to four stars for me. If there had been any kind of a storyline going into it maybe but it was just a thrown together match. Don't get me wrong though, one hell of a thrown together match. ***3/4

Also, I watched JBL vs. John Cena I Quit from Judgment Day 2005. **** for that bad boy. One brutal match. Cena bled buckets and JBL took an ass kicking as well towards the end. It's even better after not seeing it for years and now seeing what has become of Cena, going from solid fan favorite to getting the most split reactions of any guy in history. His whole first WWE Championship run is pretty great, IMHO. 

Cena vs. JBL I Quit J-Day 05: ****
Cena vs. Christian vs. Jericho Vengeance 05 ***1/2
Cena vs. Jericho Summerslam 05: ***3/4
Cena vs. Angle Unforgiven 05: ***1/2
Cena vs. Angle Survivor Series 05: ***

Can't comment on the Taboo Tuesday Triple Threat with Angle and Michaels or the 06 Chamber leading into him losing the belt to Edge, cause I haven't watched those in full. Overall, a pretty consistent run with the belt.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

pjc33 said:


> Also, I watched JBL vs. John Cena I Quit from Judgment Day 2005. **** for that bad boy. One brutal match. Cena bled buckets and JBL took an ass kicking as well towards the end. It's even better after not seeing it for years and now seeing what has become of Cena, going from solid fan favorite to getting the most split reactions of any guy in history. His whole first WWE Championship run is pretty great, IMHO.
> 
> Cena vs. Angle Survivor Series 05: ***


*****1/2* for Cena/JBL I quit. The match that made Cena a main eventer

and i think that's the highest i've ever seen for Angle/Cena at SS. I rate it a very low **1/2*


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Do you think that if Cena/Rock would have happened in 2003 or 2004, it could have been a classic?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena vs JBL (JD 05) - ★★★★½
Cena vs Christian vs Jericho (Vengeance) - ★★★¾
Cena vs Jericho (SS) - ★★★★
Cena vs Angle (Unforgiven) - ★★★¼
Cena vs Angle vs HBK (TT) - ★★★¾
Cena vs Angle (Survivor Series) - ★★¾
Elimination Chamber 06 (NYR) - ★★★★


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Yeah Angle/Cena from SSeries 05 isn't amazing, I almost felt guilty going 3 stars but what's there is solid. The whole involvement of Daivari sucked though.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Not sure why I put myself on a slight hiatus from some NWA, for a week or so. Because I stopped halfway through this show, with the latter half having 2 very solid match-ups.

NWA Saturday Night February 15 1986

Ron Bass & Don Kernodle vs the Midnight Express w/ Jim Cornette & the banned RACQUET~~.
With time, and structuring, would of been a very good match. They had the chemistry, but it was used as filler, to put Cornette in a cage above the ring, so he wouldn't interfere in the Rock 'n' Roll Express vs the Midnight Express. Its still a solid match, **1/2.

Sam Houston vs Arn Anderson
Something about Houston makes me not like him. Whether its that he looks like a lanky Ron Weasley with the red hair, or that he was trained by Dusty Rhodes. Its probably both. He was a solid addition to the card, I guess. And in this match, you see his strengths played out. But, the match also included the aura of excellence from Arn Anderson. His antics gave way for a very solid babyface performance from Houston. Arn's work on the arm was very good, regardless of the match being clipped, I don't think much was missed. Houston's valiant attempt to fight back against Anderson was his downfall, after taking a absolute beating to the arm injured by the Horsemen several months ago. Structuring and outline of the match helped both men play into their roles, and give a great match-up. ***1/4


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> *****1/2* for Cena/JBL I quit. The match that made Cena a main eventer
> 
> and i think that's the highest i've ever seen for Angle/Cena at SS. I rate it a very low **1/2*


I need to re-watch that Cena/JBL I quit match. I don't think I've seen it since it aired.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena vs JBL (JD 05) - ★★★★½
Cena vs Christian vs Jericho (Vengeance) - ★★★¾
Cena vs Jericho (SS) - ★★★¾
Cena vs Jericho RAW - ★★★½
Cena vs Angle (Unforgiven) - ★★★
Cena vs Angle vs HBK (TT) - ★★★½
Cena vs Angle (Survivor Series) - ★★¾
Elimination Chamber 06 (NYR) - ★★★

The match quality for this title reign is pretty damn good, but I just could not stand Cena's booking, character, mic work, or his appearances on RAW during this period. I would consider Cena's first title reign similar to that of Sheamus' 2012 WHC reign. Thank you C2D for the formatting of this by the way.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cena vs JBL (JD 05) - ★★★★½
> Cena vs Christian vs Jericho (Vengeance) - ★★★¾
> Cena vs Jericho (SS) - ★★★¾
> Cena vs Jericho RAW - ★★★½
> ...


His mic work was solid, specially on the build-up for SummerSlam but I understand the complaint about his booking. He overcame the odds so many times, that it was ridiculous.

Handicap match against Jericho and Tomko? Wins by pinning Tomko.
Match against the undefeated Muhammad Hassan? Squash in 2 minutes.
Tag team matches? Either loses due to crooked referee, being blindsided, DQ or wins clean.
Title match with his rival as special ref? Tons of shenanigans but Cena stands tall.
Submission match with him being the only guy without a submission hold? Enter the era of STFU.

And so on. The ONLY clean loss he took during the entire year was a fluke roll-up pin to Kurt Angle in a tag team match. And it was COMPLETELY CLEAN, which surprised me.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

*Paul London vs Billy Kidman at No Mercy 2004 review.*

The background of this match was that both wrestlers won the tag team titles and during their reign, Kidman botched a SSP and legitimately injures Chavo Guerrero so he is full of guilt and tries desparetly hard to not execute the move again which ultimately costs the team the titles to the most random team ever; Kenzo Suzuki and Rene Dupree. 

The opening minutes of the match were entertaining, London immediately attempts to attack Kidman before the match even started. London brings Kidman to the ring and continues the offense. Kidman tries to counter the attacks but London hits him with a nice super kick which is followed by an awesome moonsault from the top to Kidman who was outside of the ring. London gets Billy Kidman inside the ring and gets a cover of two and then complains to the referee about the count which leads to Kidman poking Paul London in the eyes. Kidman dominates the match at this point and shows some good psychology by attacking London's ribs with stiff strikes and kicks and even threw London to the steel posts . The restholds took a little long though. Kidman catches London with a gutbuster after London attempted to reverse. London is finally able to counter successfully with a combination of forearms and spinning kick to Kidman, after this Kidman gets hit with a Enziguri. London pins Kidman and gets a cover of two and he then attempts to powerbomb Kidman but gets hit with a facebuster. London kicks at out two and performs a hurricanrana after Kidman tried to hit London with the BK bomb. Kidman drop kicks London and attempts to hit the SSP but then walks way, gets back into the ring then London takes advantage by super kicking Kidman. London does a SSP but Kidman's knees are up and straight to the rips. Kidman then wins the match with a sloppy SSP.

After the match, Kidman officially turns heel by blaming the fans for what happened to Paul London and then attempts yet another brutal SSP on London, who was down in a stretcher. The reaction from Tazz was gold. I'll rate this match ***1/2


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Do you think that if Cena/Rock would have happened in 2003 or 2004, it could have been a classic?


Nah, don't think so. Cena was still green in the ring at that point but was able to have passable matches. I do think the promos between the two would have been great.

If Cena/Rock happened in 2007 with Cena being on fire that year, than yeah, I think the in-ring aspect of it would have made for a classic match.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Got one more to throw out there since I have been watching a lot of 05 stuff lately.

Armageddon 05
Hell in a Cell Match
Randy Orton vs. The Undertaker
****1/4

Awesome blow off match to an even better feud, perhaps the best of all 2005. Chairs, Steel chains, the Urn and Orton putting Taker through a table with a CROSS BODY BLOCK!? Why doesn't he do that anymore? Only thing that bugged me about this match, and this is a very minor annoyance/insignificant tidbit. Why did Cowboy Bob and the referee that got knocked out have to blade? lol I get that it's Hell in a Cell and all but that just seemed a bit overkill to me. Randy takes some nasty chair shots in this one and you could almost feel real hatred between these two. Great stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Undertaker (HIAC) - ★★★★½

Absolutely love this match. Definitely the best feud of 2005. And the reason he has stopped doing the Crossbody is because Arn Anderson told him that he doesn't need to go to the top rope.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The crowd during Orton/Taker HIAC can go fuck themselves. 

****1/2 anyways.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, for curiosity sakes, here are all the Singles Matches between two Hall of Famers in WM history (and my ratings for them):

JYD/Valentine 1 - **
Andre/Studd 1 - *3/4
Orndorff/Muraco 2 - DUD
Race/JYD 3 - **1/4
Reed/Koko 3 - 1/4*
Hogan/Andre 3 - ***
DiBiase/Valentine 4 - **
Steamboat/Valentine 4 - **3/4
Hogan/Andre 4 - 1/4*
DiBiase/Muraco 4 - *
Slaughter/Hogan 7 - ***1/2
HBK/Santana 8 - ***
Piper/Bret 8 - ****1/2
Bret/Yokozuna 9 - ***
Yokozuna/Hogan 9 - DUD
Yokozuna/Bret 10 - **3/4
Bret/Backlund 11 - DUD
Bret/HBK 12 - ****1/4
Bret/Austin 13 - *G*O*A*T*
Austin/HBK 14 - ****3/4
Foley/Edge 22 - ****1/2
Flair/HBK 24 - ****1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Although their Summerslam match is my favorite from their series, Orton/Taker HIAC is probably their best. *****1/2* from me and easily my favorite feud of 2005. 

Would anyone recommend the Taboo Tuesday cage match between Orton and Flair? I do not recall a single thing about this match, but it looks like it was critically acclaimed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> The crowd during Orton/Taker HIAC can go fuck themselves.
> 
> ****1/2 anyways.


They were horrible, but didn't bother me as much in a second watch. I think there was even some kid yelling "Undertaker, you suck".

Speaking of crowds, I'm surprised how loved Orton is by females even as a douchebag heel in 05-06. Not often that happens since female fans are pretty kayfabe and only really root for faces.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Although their Summerslam match is my favorite from their series, Orton/Taker HIAC is probably their best. *****1/2* from me and easily my favorite feud of 2005.
> 
> Would anyone recommend the Taboo Tuesday cage match between Orton and Flair? I do not recall a single thing about this match, but it looks like it was critically acclaimed.


I love the SummerSlam match too.

★★★★ for Flair/Orton steel cage. Pretty enjoyable and not too long either.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I watched D-Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler from Bragging Rights last night and boy is it a hard match for me to rate. I keep having mixed reactions to it. On one hand it feels like a great match but on the other it feels like a glorified TV match. I don't know. It's just a match I have so much trouble finding a rating for. One minute it feels as if I'm watching a **** match but by the end it feels like it's anywhere between ***1/2-***3/4. Anyone else find it just a weird match?


Can't say I find it weird. ****1/4; definitely a favourite of mine


> JYD/Valentine 1 - **
> Andre/Studd 1 - *3/4
> Orndorff/Muraco 2 - DUD
> Race/JYD 3 - **1/4
> ...


This list is surprisingly short.



Srdjan99 said:


> Do you think that if Cena/Rock would have happened in 2003 or 2004, it could have been a classic?


No, Cena was way greener.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Looking back now after having watched it live on PPV in 2009, Mania 25 is just a chore to sit through. Knowing they could have dropped the Kid Rock performance and the Miss WrestleMania crap and gave us the Tag Title Unification Match instead really sucks ass. This is something WWE has been screwing us with for the past few years now. Don't advertise a match and then take it away from us after we shell out the cash.

Also, the only watchable things on WM 25 are Hardy/Hardy (4 da spotz), Money in the Bank, (although the end was lame), Taker vs. HBK obviously, and the end of the Legends vs. Y2J handicap match with Jericho and Steamboat. I can't believe I paid to watch this live! Orton/HHH should have been No DQ damn it! Don't put a stupid stipulation on your main event that will effect the quality negatively.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I donn't find WM 25 to be all that poor outside of the main event. Rest of the event flies on by. A decent showing for WM with a "classic" memorable contest involved. Has quite a few Mania's beat overall.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Is there even such a thing as the big 4 any more? It's pretty much just the big 1 in WM. Maybe big 2 since the RR has the Rumble match. But SS and SS are usually complete trash and the Rumble undercard has been atrocious the last few years.
> 
> Oh hey, WM 7 review in my BLOG~! Last time I watched Savage/Warrior, I didn't think much to it? What about now? HUH? DID I LIKE IT MORE? OR MAYBE I HATED IT? GO READ IT YOU PLEBS... I MEAN, VERY NICE PEOPLE. EXCEPT YOU. YEAH, YOU. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. BASICALLY IF YOU AREN'T SURE IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE NICE PEOPLE OR NOT. THEN YOU AREN'T.


They still treat Summerslam as a big PPV (The first Cena/Batista happened there, Triple H/Brock, CM Punk/Cena to unify the titles etc..)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Summerslam is viewed WAY bigger than Rumble has over the last few years. Rumble isn't even the same event anymore.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

It would be great if they did Rock/Cena III at this year's Summerslam.

And SummerSlam 2011 was GREAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If it has to happen, fine. Better to get it done with sooner and not at another WrestleMania.

Hoping this garbage dies once the first week of April passes.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> If it has to happen, fine. Better to get it done with sooner and not at another WrestleMania.
> 
> Hoping this garbage dies once the first week of April passes.


It most likely will cause I can't see Rock and Cena both holding 1 victory over each other without a rubber match and I seriously doubt they would repeat Rock/Cena for a third time at Mania so SummerSlam would be the best bet.

I'm praying Rock is more conditioned for this match, he looked a little better in his matches with Punk but I can't bear to watch him tire himself out in 5 minutes again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Really hope ROCK vs Cena is over and done with after Wrestlemania. While it's nice that it prevented Punk from polluting the main event, it doesn't need to be overdone for another year or even at another PPV this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE these days, well, I don't think Cena vs Rock III is too far-fetched to headline another WM. The thought process like this is what worries me.

Wouldn't get too set on it. Perhaps in the minority, but I thought Rock looked worse vs Punk than he did vs Cena last year. Matches vs Punker were so bad.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I only watched the Punk matches once and it looked ok to me, I watched Rock/Cena for the second time a few weeks ago and noticed there were blatant moments in the match where Rock was stalling for time like when Cena was going for the top rope leg drop. I would probably notice something like that if I watched his Punk matches again but I probably won't watch them again anytime soon.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rock/Cena was tonnes better than both the Rock/Punk matches.

** for Rock/Cena

Both Rock/Punk matches are the DUDS OF ALL DUDS.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Yeah I can't believe I'm saying it but I would rather watch Rock/Cena than Rock/Punk. Anyway, going back a couple pages I see we were discussing Angle/Cena. It's a shame both men were never to capture the magic like their No Mercy 2003 bout. Now that match is a forgotten gem. A lot of times when I think of Cena's greatest matches, I think 2006, 2007 and onwards but when I think of it Cena had quite a few gems in 2003 and 2004 with his matches with Angle and Taker. I have Cena/Taker Venegance at ****. Cena/Angle at No Mercy '03 ****1/4. I don't think I can rate either Cena/Angle 2005 bout more than ** to be honest.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Angle/Cena NWO 05 is legit.

****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena from 03 has quite a few quality matches:

vs Kurt Angle (No Mercy)
vs Undertaker (Vengeance, Smackdown before SummerSlam)
vs Chris Benoit (numerous SD matches, specially the one from 4/12 where he taps out)
vs Brock Lesnar (Backlash)
vs Rey Mysterio (SD in early November)
vs Eddie Guerrero (Parking Lot Brawl and match in El Paso after SummerSlam)

And from 2006, has anyone seen his ONS rematch with RVD the night after Vengeance (26/6)? Just got done with it and it's a pretty good 9 minute TV match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Angle from NWO '05 is a bore and highly forgettable. Only match of their's worth seeing seems to be No Mercy 2003.


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Nah, I think their Smackdown 2002 match (Cena's debut match) is a great deal of fun to watch also. But No Mercy is indeed the best match between them.


----------



## Rusty Shackleford (Aug 9, 2011)

Cena & Angle's No Mercy 2003 match is pretty good but Cena's debut match against Angle is their best match in my opinion. I wonder what happened to their matches from 2005 on. Seemed to get duller and duller.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Armageddon 2008
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio: ****1/4

I know some will disagree and say I overrated this one but I think I enjoy it more and more every time I see it. The closest they have come to topping this was their Capitol Punishment match which I like almost as much. This one has a really stiff shot to the nose from the GTS Punk delivers to Rey, legit busting his nose. 

First match they had together in WWE and it was like they had wrestled a thousand times before. Perhaps they locked up once or twice on the independent circuit, but this is just a different kind of chemistry. Kind of reminds me of Eddie and Rey in the ring.

Also, some more starz from this show...

Orton vs. Batista: ***

World Heavyweight Championship Match
Chris Jericho vs. John Cena (C) ***1/2 (Better than the Survivor Series match.)

WWE Championship Triple Threat
HHH vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Edge (C) ***3/4 (extra quarter star for JR's "Hardy Party" line.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good thing I added "seems to be" in my post - went blank on Cena vs Angle from '02.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with Stone Cold vs Undertaker from SummerSlam 1998. A good match but holy fuck, there's some sloppy moments. Both of them look pretty exhausted to the point some moves are barely executed successfully and some weak punch exchanges. The legdrop onto the announce table was brutal. A lot better than I expected based on some of the negative things said about it. ★★★¼.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Undertaker was a bit shit really from approx. Summerslam 1998 all the way to September 1999 (when he left for 8 months because he could barely walk). He started 1998 off the way he finished off 1997 - red hot. But the longer the Kane feud went in 1998 he just got sloppier.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Just got done with Stone Cold vs Undertaker from SummerSlam 1998. A good match but holy fuck, there's some sloppy moments. Both of them look pretty exhausted to the point some moves are barely executed successfully and some weak punch exchanges. The legdrop onto the announce table was brutal. A lot better than I expected based on some of the negative things said about it. ★★★¼.


I have went back with Summerslam 1998 as their best match. It goes like this now.

1. Fully Loaded 1999, First Blood
2. JD 2002, No Holds Barred
3. Cold Day In Hell
4. Summerslam 1998
5. Everything else they've done.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Austin SS 98- ***1/2. I still have to re-watch it as part of my re-rating project (and since it's close to number 300 on my list, I probably won't get to it for a while), but it definitely should've been a lot better considering the build up and hype for it (think it got the biggest SS buyrate ever). Still a very enjoyable match for me as I still remember as a kid, I started watching at WM14 and these two were my favorites in WWE, and it was a dream match due to that. Holds a special place in my heart due to that and it's just one of those matches I can't be objective towards.

The sloppiness I'm pretty sure though was for the most part due to the two butting heads hard early on in the match, with Austin getting the worst of it. At the start of the match you could clearly see they were going full force, but a few minutes in that bump happens and things just go way down from there.

On Taker/Austin:

1) JD 01
2) FL99
3) SS98
4) Everything else


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Summerslam 1998 is awesome. None of the matches really stick out as 'classic' but I think it's because it was my favourite year of wrestling at that time, it was at MSG, it was in the middle of the school holidays so I could see it live and there were no real weak matches. Even the Oddities/Kaientai match entertained me for a glorified squash.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

From the Taker/Austin matches I've seen in full, my ranking would go:

1. Judgment Day 01
2. Fully Loaded 99
3. SummerSlam 98
4. Backlash 02
5. Rock Bottom 98 (been a very long time, though)

It's time for Austin vs Foley from OTE 98 tomorrow. That Dude Love outfit is just GOOFY!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> It's time for Austin vs Foley from OTE 98 tomorrow. That Dude Love outfit is just GOOFY!


Holy shit you're in for a treat.

That match gets a ****1/2 from me.

EDIT: Fuck it, I give it a *****. Must've watched that match about a gazillion times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Dude Love from OTE '98 is the clear cut MOTY. Amazing match.

I guess it isn't known by some here: Austin got legit knocked out in the Summerslam match vs Undertaker. Hence the sloppy points.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I still think CM Punk vs Mysterio from WM 26 is one of the best 5 minute matches ever. So much excitement in so little time. 

BTW C2D, Cena had all those gems in '03? I have to check out the Benoit match (I think I can recall that one just a little bit) and the Mysterio match rings a bell as well. I've never really watched Lesnar/Cena from Backlash. 

Man, it's weird how WWE at one point really tried to build stars. Look at Cena in '03, nothing more than a midcard act. An over midcard act, but midcard nonetheless. Yet they tested the waters with him from very early on. What the hell ever happened to that kind of booking? The testing the waters booking? Was there any real reason why Cena should have been in that match against Lesnar?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Holy shit you're in for a treat.
> 
> That match gets a ****1/2 from me.


Heard a lot about it, so it should be great.



sharkboy22 said:


> BTW C2D, Cena had all those gems in '03? I have to check out the Benoit match (I think I can recall that one just a little bit) and the Mysterio match rings a bell as well. I've never really watched Lesnar/Cena from Backlash.
> 
> Man, it's weird how WWE at one point really tried to build stars. Look at Cena in '03, nothing more than a midcard act. An over midcard act, but midcard nonetheless. Yet they tested the waters with him from very early on. What the hell ever happened to that kind of booking? The testing the waters booking? Was there any real reason why Cena should have been in that match against Lesnar?


The Mysterio match is right before his face turn became official with Team Lesnar assaulting him. And he had a few matches with Benoit. Best one being on the same night Benoit had that excellent TV match with Lesnar. (4th December)

And I agree on the second part. Just look at how they built Cena and Orton, then compare it to how they book their unproven acts today. I can only imagine how long time fans felt about some young punk calling himself the Legend Killer or some goofball rhyming with a heavy wiggerish accent back then. But still, they managed to take these two and turn them into big time stars within 2-3 years.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Swagger got tested waters. Only it was WITH the championship. That's the problem with the booking these days. Go too far and if it doesn't find their brand of success, it'll be killed. Kofi Kingston was a good example back in late 2009. I guess WWE felt he screwed up too much during the botches on RAW with Orton or Orton really had stroke once upon a time and got the push killed. idk the details obviously, just don't know what happened in the end there. Although, personally, I thank whoever stopped it b/c Kofi is far, far, far from a midcarder who should receive a push. Miz is a great example at least. He was slowly built over a year till he shocked everyone by winning the WWE Championship. You don't have to like him, but he was booked very well into his rise as champion.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

To be fair, i think the E is a little scared of pushing _any_ newcomers because of the mistakes they've made in the past.

*Mr. Kennedy*- Injuries galore, steroid scandal, dropping Orton on the back of his head. He got a major push when he debuted and went onto beat many former world champions and also win MITB but then all the shit happened. That's just number 1.
*MVP*- Good solid push at the start of his career, beats Benoit for the US title and has a long reign with it. Then it all went downhill, in 2008 he had a losing streak from which he never recovered. The move to Raw in 2010 was the final straw and he was gone within a few months.
*Drew McIntyre*- Great start as IC, now an absolute jobber with 3MB.

And to be fair you could maybe add Orton to this list. It's 2013 and Orton is a glorified jobber to the huge stars and it's his own fault. The 2 wellness strikes have meant that WWE cannot make him world champion again, not only because he could get _another_ strike but because it's bad for the public view of the WWE having a man who has had wellness strikes as their world champion. Orton will always be a main eventer but i don't think he'll win the title again and i think he knows that, which you can see in his demeanor and mannerisms.

There's so many more, but it seems that the WWE are holding back their talent for a while, maybe to make sure they're loyal and good for the future? 

I mean i could be completely wrong and probably am but just a few thoughts i had.

EDIT- Add Swagger to the list too. He's fucked his major push up. He's lucky it's Mania season and they had him already booked for a title match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock looked WAY worse against Punk than he did against Cena, and alot of that has to do with the pacing of both matches as well as Rock's conditioning. Rock has to shoot for Hercules later this year meaning that he has to be as big as possible, leaving out room for probably the fuck load of cardio he would have to do to get into shape. 

The pace of Rock-Cena I was a real "clash of the titans" slow paced kinda deal that worked because that's what it was ; two mega stars going at it to see who the better man is. That's not going to work this year, so I'm expecting a far inferior match to the one we got last year, which I actually really enjoy due to Cena's hard work in getting The Rock to a decent encounter.

It's not a fantastic match by any means but on a personal level, I REALLY like Rock-Cena despite my disdain for the ending and the fact that we're getting what's going to be a shitty rematch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know how you could forget Lesnar in that list! They gave him everything in two years and he was gone with the wind. MVP flopping is their own fault for stupid booking like that dumb losing streak. I give them Mr. Kennedy as their tried their hardest to push him but injuries, suspensions and recklessness caused them to give it up.

I wont count Orton with them because he's come too far at this point.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't mind fast pushes because they can work if booked right. Just look at Brock Lesnar's push. The only problem is that it happens too much nowadays. Sheamus, Del Rio and Jack Swagger all got pushed quickly. Then there are some who won world titles without any real build like Bryan and Ziggler. Ziggler isn't a world title winner yet but he was a jobber before winning the brief case (always taking the pinfals in tag team matches with Swagger) and is being treated like a joke currently. To some extend, you can argue Punk won his first world title in 2008 without no build.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lesnar splitting could have given Vince and the gang a case of the limber tail to put so much behind any new stars. Until Sheamus came along. Pardon that idiot writer who was intent on burying Sheamus post KOTR 2010 - WM season, he has rose up the ranks in rapid fashion. Got established & over in no time thanks to the full tilt booking backing him. It can be done again. Only when the WWE decides to do so.

Sheamus is an example of the Swagger type booking being a success. I know he came first, but the whole "major championship out of nowhere to solidify" mentality is where I am going with this.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Still haven't witnessed WM 28 without being zooted. except for punk/jericho, which I thought was potential MOTN but wasn't actually all that great.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Sheamus is actually one of the best booked Superstars in recent times. I credit Sheamus' rise to his 2011 face turn though. From the moment Sheamus turned face his level of stardom skyrocketed. I guess it did kind of make sense to have him beat D-Bryan in 8 seconds lol. The 8 second lost really doesn't bother me at all anymore. D-Bryan's popularity soared because of it and Sheamus was solidified as a top dog that night. Also when 80,000 people are screaming their lungs off who the hell am I (one person) to complain. If you go back and look at the match, the crowd popped huge for that 8 second win. Speaking of Sheamus, talk about a top 5 company worker for 2012. I'm a huge Sheamus fan. I know a lot can't stand the guy, but screw the haters. It's funny actually. I couldn't stand him prior to his 2011 face run. Likewise, with Del Rio. Couldn't stand the guy till he turned face.

Anyway, random ratings of the night. Only watched two matches tonight.

Edge vs Kurt Angle Backlash 2002 ***3/4 (really Observer., ****1/4?)

Shawn Michaels vs Triple H Summerslam 2002 ****1/2

Off to watch some ECW 2006 (totally forgot I even downloaded this, almost 3 months now!) and whenever the hell I feel tired it's off to bed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc Angle vs Edge is excellent. Meltzer did right by creaming for Kurt in that one. I think I'm the most partial guy for the Angle vs Edge series, tbhayley. Have a blast watching all their matches in 2002.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't believe people shit on Cena's character. He's a troll and until I'm convinced otherwise, every troll like thing he does is completely intentional :lol.

:cena3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus, when he originally got the title the first time ended up failing just like Swagger. Same thing the second time. However after he turned face and started winning all his matches, being built up properly as an unstoppable face, and got very over for a while, he was paced correctly. Rushing him would've been giving him the title before Wrestlemania. They did the right thing waiting until Mania and I only had two problems with that:

1) The 18 second thing in which he won it... just blasphamey. This is what hrut Sheamus' overness... actually it took quite a hit when he won the rumble if listen carefully, but after this his crowd reactions became very tame. 

2) Sheamus is terrible when he's not wrestling. Can't cut a good promo or carry a feud as champion to save his life (there is probably an exception or two out there). Couldn't stand him as WHC feuding with Del Rio, I was off SD pretty much until Show won the title... and even then I still didn't really watch it much. 

I've been able to tolerate Sheamus in recent months though since he's lost the title and started fighting the shield. I don't think I'll ever be a fan though. He didn't cut it as a heel for me. He hasn't cut it as a face for me. Same thing with Del Rio tbh.

It's funny because I actually like Cesaro, who shares the same strengths and weaknesses as Sheamus and Del Rio. Don't know what it is about Cesaro that keeps me interested and why Sheamus/Del Rio aren't doing the same. Maybe it's the fact he has a proper gimmick... but I don't even care that much for his gimmick that much. I do think he's a better in ring worker than the two of them, but even still, it's a bit bizarre to me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> I can't believe people shit on Cena's character. He's a troll and until I'm convinced otherwise, every troll like thing he does is completely intentional :lol.
> 
> :cena3


Cena's been woeful to watch for the better part of the last 6 or 7 years. Terrible character. Good for him and McMahon for their trolling and raking in the cash either way but the character probably isn't directed at me to begin with.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Safe to say I disagree with the points made for Cena & Sheamus in the previous posts.

Sheamus has proven he can cut promos well. b/c he smiles and makes a joke or two, now that's a different story to lead into for some displeasure. Has no effect on his talents which are clearly there. Better than some guys who don't even have the "downside" of trying to work through an accent.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

So what is it you like about Cena's character and his portrayal of the character through promos & feuds again?

As a worker especially in big matches he's one of the best in the last decade easily but outside of that I'm either bored or irritated with him.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

MoveMent said:


> I only watched the Punk matches once and it looked ok to me, I watched Rock/Cena for the second time a few weeks ago and noticed there were blatant moments in the match where Rock was stalling for time like when Cena was going for the top rope leg drop. I would probably notice something like that if I watched his Punk matches again but I probably won't watch them again anytime soon.


I take this assessment for the most part, as well.

Though I think people , (not singling you out), tend to over exaggerate just how "gassed" Rock is in these recent matches. Def slower from his prime, but not crazy bad. Its pretty simple, hes older, bigger, too much time away from the ring, and not enough time to properly train for wrestling a long time. Since the guy is legit juggling two things (WWE/Movies) at once, not an easy task. Rock's matches should stay in 15-20 min range tbh. Also, wish Rock could work a match in his RAW 1000 shape. Dude was lean that night. 










But yeah, when its time for him to get going in his offense, hes still explosive. Especially when hes setting up for his elbow. Just got through watching all three recent Rock matches and they really were not that bad to me. Rock/Cena was fine for what it was, and with Rock working through an injury, the two pulled it off.

Rock/Punk series was much of the same for me. Both endings were clusterfucks. However, RR was a better match but EC had a better ending up until all the ref spots. Good amount of nearfalls at the end and good to see Punk actually get his finisher in. Rock matches these days are around the meh/ok range.

Im willing to give Rock/Cena II a shot at truly upping the ante. With everyone pretty much shitting on the match already, it would be that much sweeter for them to pull it off. As someone who doesn't mind the two or the first match I still hope they can do it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> So what is it you like about Cena's character and his portrayal of the character through promos & feuds again?
> 
> As a worker especially in big matches he's one of the best in the last decade easily but outside of that I'm either bored or irritated with him.


He's himself. A straightforward guy who lays it all on the line and is _(shocker alert)_ easy to root for in the process. Austin was himself and it was much of the same correlation for me to get behind.

Only time I've been bored with John-boy is currently b/c I give zero shits about feuding with The Rock again & in latter 2004 when he was floating around with the United States championship and I desperately wanted WWE to use their brain and push him towards the WWE Championship. That one was only a matter of time before things would be made correctly. Right now...idk what in the hell they're thinking. Everything that could have been said was said LAST YEAR. There is no heat, heart, or reason to care for his current program. Flat out rehash. WWE are morons for going through with the blandest attempt for a WrestleMania main event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena has honestly impressed the fuck out of me for a really long time now. He is who he is and I'm completely cool with that, especially now when he's going up against The Rock ; somebody I want off my television screen as fast as possible. The in ring work of his has been undeniable with some of the most epic WWF/WWE performances against the likes of BROCK and Punk in recent years, with his character work seemingly getting better and better each year.

Besides his pre Rumble promo which was absolutely horrendous, I've really enjoyed most Cena segments this year besides the "OMGZEPICZ" promos with The Rock where they quote every single big name athlete who ever lived in an attempt to sell their match. 

Can't wait for Elimination Chamber to come out on DVD so I can give that SHIELD tag a watch, going back and watching some promos now... Really hoping that when Mania comes around that they BOYS go over.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Flyin' Brian Pillman vs Jushin Liger WCW Nitro 9/4/95 ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

oof, pre-Rumble match promo was bantha poo doo. Don't know what John was thinking when he cut that one.

You raise a good point about owning Elimination Chamber. I wouldn't mind owning it considering it has two of the better WWE matches of the year on it in Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback & Cesaro/Miz. Chamber is decent if not owning to say "hey I got them all" + Henry being a boss. Opener was solid too, so it sounds like a logical buy. Rumble is still a no for me though. Nothing about it is redeeming. Main event is a total stinker, Rumble is drab outside of a Drew McIntyre bump & Jericho's return, LMS was terrible, & tag championship was nothing we haven't seen before on TV or PPV from all four. Flat out poor excuse for an event.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

SpookshowTony said:


> Flyin' Brian Pillman vs Jushin Liger WCW Nitro 9/4/95 ***


Really good match. Also enjoyed it. ** 3/4 - *** from me imo. 

PILLMAN


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You seen Pillman vs Liger from SuperBrawl II, Kenny?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> Really good match. Also enjoyed it. ** 3/4 - *** from me imo.
> 
> PILLMAN



PILLMAN INDEED. I have other matches to finish, but their Superbrawl match will be waiting for me.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't think I have.  

Better?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MUCH.

It's a classic. Not saying this b/c I'm a mark either. I swear. 8*D


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

dem star ratings?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*****

Boosh.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Found it, but it has RUSSIAN voiceovers all over it.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

From Dailymotion Kenny.
http://www.dailymotion.com/us/relevance/search/brian+pillman+vs+jushin+liger/1#video=x9ueic

No Russian here.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Excellent, cheers mate.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Cheers :hayden2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

Brilliant juniors match right there. It almost catches you off guard even when you're immersed in it. You think "this is really good, but a classic...idk." Then the moment it's over you're left only saying "wow". That's how it was for me the first few times. Now that it has been immortalized as one of my all time favorites, I'm marking the entire time I watch. The feeling I want to have all the time whenever I watch wrestling. True bliss for this fan.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

all this HYPE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Circa 1992, so also there is mega biased by myself again considering it happens to be my preferred favorite time in the wrestling biz. _(on account to latter 80's too. From America, at least.)_


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone else thought Taker/A-Train & Big Show was a good match, I mean Taker was clearly wrestling a fast pace and definitely dragged Train and Show to a good match. The match gets unneeded hate at times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/15507522-post17.html

***.

Good match. Always liked watching it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@Hayley

We discussed Angle/Benoit RR 03 a couple pages and noticed you didn't share your thoughts. Would love to hear them though, I thought it was a ***3/4 at best and simply shouldn't be regarded as the GOAT WWE match.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

Anyone got a video of David Sammartino losing to that jobber on purpose?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My opinion has oddly fluxated on the match over the years. First few times I watched it I didn't think it was nearly a classic like some thought. That changed and it was viewed to be really good by me on some other watches. Now it's back to where my first opinion stated. Only stating the abnormal, if not idiotic way to view the match b/c idk how I could go up and down on it and still have an opinion which makes sense. All of this is getting diluted into a bunch of nonsensical tripe.

Final verdict: Quite good. Classic? Nah. Personally, I like other matches from the two much more. Specifically Unforgiven 2002.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh hey, look, WM 8 review on my blog .

When it comes to Angle/Benoit, I always really liked their 30 minute Ultimate Submission match from Backlash. Last time I saw it, it really held up to which was a nice surprise .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania VIII review by Cal should mean an epic burial of that horrendous "main event" between Hogan & Sid. :mark:

Been ages since I last saw the Ultimate Submission match. Same with their two out of three falls from Judgment Day 2001.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> WrestleMania VIII review by Cal should mean an epic burial of that horrendous "main event" between Hogan & Sid. :mark:
> 
> Been ages since I last saw the Ultimate Submission match. Same with their two out of three falls from Judgment Day 2001.


Yes... complete burial of that match :side:. That's what you can expect :side:.

Not a fan of their 2/3 falls match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I am gobsmacked. Do believe that was the first positive review I've ever seen for it.

Most aren't. Both are a distant memory so i'm not about to pass judgment on either till they are plenty refreshed in my brain. Got JD on DVD in my house. No go with Backlash though. Rather watch them in order.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I find WM9 to be worse than WM11, The outdoor scene really killed it for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Really? I had fun with IX much more than I did with XI outside of Triple B vs Taylor. Do mark for outdoor events too. XI & XII both fell into that weird groove of their events not feeling like a WrestleMania at all. Only another PPV with a bit more fanfare behind it. WrestleMania 13's build kind of stunk too, but it managed to get the essence back.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I find WM9 to be worse than WM11, The outdoor scene really killed it for me.


HBK/Tatanka and Steiners/Headshrinkers trump EVERYTHING about WM11 tbh.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Really? I had fun with IX much more than I did with XI outside of Triple B vs Taylor. Do mark for outdoor events too. XI & XII both fell into that weird groove of their events not feeling like a WrestleMania at all. Only another PPV with a bit more fanfare behind it. WrestleMania 13's build kind of stunk too, but it managed to get the essence back.


Yep. That pop Taker got when he won the title was insane for such a small stadium but can somebody please tell me why Hebner's count was so slow, seemed like he got caught up in the moment and decided to go slow-mo, LOL.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forever a mystery I guess. Wanted to milk the moment perhaps. Crowd even finished yelling "THREE" before he hit the mat, haha. 

Most claim the Taker vs Sid match to be poor. Don't own it so it's been ages since I last saw that one too. Part of me thinks it can't be too bad. Sid was capable despite being linked to many humorous moments and Taker is Taker. Always the man.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't like Angle/Benoit that much either. Don't get all the OMG AWSUM praise for it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

COUNTERS AND SUBMISSIONS.

but really that's generally what I guess seems to be the appeal. Once I wised up that the world of wrestling offered much stronger performances out there, the "brilliance" wore off quickly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> WrestleMania VIII review by Cal should mean an epic burial of that horrendous "main event" between Hogan & Sid. :mark:
> 
> Been ages since I last saw the Ultimate Submission match. Same with their two out of three falls from Judgment Day 2001.


Its been YEARS (and YEARS) since I have watched WMVIII, I either totally forgot or didn't realise the markout Shane McMahon appearance :lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Forever a mystery I guess. Wanted to milk the moment perhaps. Crowd even finished yelling "THREE" before he hit the mat, haha.
> 
> Most claim the Taker vs Sid match to be poor. Don't own it so it's been ages since I last saw that one too. Part of me thinks it can't be too bad. Sid was capable despite being linked to many humorous moments and Taker is Taker. Always the man.


It wasn't as poor as people claim but i did get irritated by Bret coming in every 2 seconds to try and cost Sid the championship. I even remember one moment in the match where he hits him with a chair, i was like dosen't that count as Disqualification therefore Sid retains his title? Another mystery indeed.

Overall, I would rate it ***** while Taker's match with Diesel last year ranks a little higher at ****1/2*, His match with Kane at WM14 is ****** and Batista at WM23 is *****1/2*

Undertaker's Best Big Man Matches At Wrestlemania:
1. Batista - WM23
2. Kane - WM14
3. Diesel - WM12
4. Sid - WM13
5. All the shit after


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

whats a good wcw 1999 PPV to watch? pretty sure i have them all!


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I was discussing with a friend of mine our favorite Wrestlemania matches since we're in the season. My all-time favorite Wrestlemania match is The Ultimate Warrior Vs. "Macho Man" Randy Savage from WWF Wrestlemania VII. I think it pretty much encompasses all that is American professional wrestling. It's all about the build, the story, the outcome & the post match. It's not just a bell-to-bell kind of thing (although that is pretty great too, in my opinion). After thinking about it some more, I came to the realization that it might be my favorite match ever, which is pretty crazy to think about. It's not exactly like The Ultimate Warrior is known for his work rate or that he was even a great character, really. It was just like the planets aligned correctly.

Going back to watch it, the build & everything leading up to the career Vs. career match, it didn't just effect those guys, it effect the rest of the card too. Without Savage blasting Warrior with his King's scepter, Sgt. Slaughter doesn't win the WWF title. Which means we don't get Slaughter Vs. Hogan for the title from a kayfabe sense. There were actual consequences to the actions & match outcomes meant something! Novel concept.

*✮ ✮ ✮ ✮ ✮*


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Besides his pre Rumble promo which was absolutely horrendous, I've really enjoyed most Cena segments this year besides the "OMGZEPICZ" promos with The Rock where they quote every single big name athlete who ever lived in an attempt to sell their match.


That promo was more than just quoting two athletes. Thought it was a nice touch.

That was actually one of the better promos from both men too. No jokes, no fruity pebbles, no im here every week. People are crapping on the story but it cant change that the two did a lot better face to face than last year.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I decided to watch spring stampede 99.

open er is Blitzkreig vs juventud :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> whats a good wcw 1999 PPV to watch? pretty sure i have them all!


Spring Stampede is a good one imo

EDIT - Yeah that one :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ratingz for HBK vs Angle saga?

Pretty sure I have 'em like this:
WM21 - ****3/4
Vengeance - ****1/2
Iron Man: ****


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ATF said:


> Ratingz for HBK vs Angle saga?
> 
> Pretty sure I have 'em like this:
> WM21 - ****3/4
> ...


Didn't like the chemistry of HBK/Angle that much but they still had great matches.

WM21 - ****
Vengeance - ***3/4
Iron Man - ***1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> That promo was more than just quoting two athletes. Thought it was a nice touch.
> 
> That was actually one of the better promos from both men too. No jokes, no fruity pebbles, no im here every week. People are crapping on the story but it cant change that the two did a lot better face to face than last year.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


"I need redemption"
"To be the greatest ever you must..."
"I'm going to beat you....Again"

Bullshit, it's a title program at Wrestlemania yet Rock can't properly sell a title match for fucking shit. He can wear the belt on the red carpet though, that'll help peak the wrestling fans' interest in the current product that's for sure.

If anybody knew how BAD I wanted Rock to be good so that I could feel confident moving forward that we'd be getting some great main event programs in the future, they'd probably be REALLY surprised.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone have Cactus Jack Vs Sting – Beach Blast - I Quit Match in good quality? I tried searching everywhere.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> "I need redemption"
> "To be the greatest ever you must..."
> "I'm going to beat you....Again"
> 
> ...


And what was so bad about that. Would Rock calling Cena crazy names and talking about Fruity Pebbles make your day? Would you like Cena to talk bout how hes here every week, while Rock left and calls him DWAYNE 50 times. Come on now. There is a better story being told here this time around, and they actually have something to feud over. As well as the WWE championship, the top prize being on the line.


Rock cant sell a title match though? Dont know what show you are watching. Dude did a great job hyping up that belt/match with CM Punk for two months. Both guys nailed it at that.

I will agree that that one promo, the title wasn't the be all end all focus but it was just that, ONE promo. One. Yes it was mostly about greatness/redemption to get that tagline across but at the same time it was just ONE promo. They had a solid video promo tackling the title and both mens desire to win, and we still have a few more weeks of build up. The irrational hatred this match and these two get is out of this world. Can we just see the rest of the feud/promos play out before we go making major statements like that. It makes no sense.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> And what was so bad about that. Would Rock calling Cena crazy names and talking about Fruity Pebbles make your day? Would you like Cena to talk bout how hes here every week, while Rock left and calls him DWAYNE 50 times. Come on now. There is a better story being told here this time around, and they actually have something to feud over. As well as the WWE championship, the top prize being on the line.
> 
> 
> Rock cant sell a title match though? Dont know what show you are watching.* Dude did a great job hyping up that belt/match with CM Punk for two months. Both guys nailed it at that*.
> ...


Ummmm.... No? They didn't do a good job?

Seriously, did you see the Go Home show for Elimination Chamber like I did in Memphis, where The Rock sat in the ring for 20 minutes and told stories about crackheads, failing to mention the fact that there was a new stipulation added to his title match, actually failing to mention the match at ALL now that I think about it. 

Punk did all he could have in the build for that one (as his character REVOLVES around the title) while Rocky did fuck all, instead opting for nonsense for the live crowd such as the Memphis fiasco as well as all the Cookiepuss and Twinkie Tits bullshit.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Anyone have Cactus Jack Vs Sting – Beach Blast - I Quit Match in good quality? I tried searching everywhere.


I had it a few months back. Gotta see if I still have the match when I arrive home


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Ummmm.... No? They didn't do a good job?
> 
> Seriously, did you see the Go Home show for Elimination Chamber like I did in Memphis, where The Rock sat in the ring for 20 minutes and told stories about crackheads, failing to mention the fact that there was a new stipulation added to his title match, actually failing to mention the match at ALL now that I think about it.
> 
> Punk did all he could have in the build for that one (as his character REVOLVES around the title) while Rocky did fuck all, instead opting for nonsense for the live crowd such as the Memphis fiasco as well as all the Cookiepuss and Twinkie Tits bullshit.


Yeah I saw that, and I agree that didn't have anything to do with the feud. But you are not looking at the entire feud. Your're highlighting the low points and in turn making a judgement that everything Rock does is that and he apparently can not hype up a title match. The entire feud was not cookie puss/twinkie tits/crackhead stories now was it? No it was not.

I seem to recall times where Rock was serious, and hyped up the title as well as the importance of not only CM Punk but his reign. Much better than Cena, as much as I have no problem with him, shitting on the importance of Punk's reign a few months prior when he said it was irrelevant. Rock's promos on Smackdown were the best when it came to hyping his match/feud with Punk. And he adressed the stip on the go home show for Smackdown that Week as well. That stuff still counts but Im willing to believe that you havent even seen those.


Yes Rock had crazy moments that had nothing to do with his feud. More so to entertain the live crowd and those who do enjoy that stuff but on the same hand he has done the opposite and actually hype things up. The guys's character has always been that way for the most part but the guy still was able to effectively work with Punk to get the job done. Don't see how anyone else hasn't seen it like that.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> I had it a few months back. Gotta see if I still have the match when I arrive home


If you have it. Could you try uploading it directly to Multiupload, It's the only file sharing site that works at my school. Thanks a lot, man .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm probably going to get back from.work at 8 o.clock PM, UK time.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Guess I'll be doing a Cal now and reviewing the Wrestlemanias...

*WRESTLEMANIA X*

Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - ****1/4
Doink and Dink vs. Bam Bam Bigelow and Luna Vachon - **1/4
*Falls Count Anywhere*: Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Crush - ***
*WWF Women's Championship*: Alundra Blayze (c) vs. Leilani Kai - *3/4
WWF Tag Team Championship: Men On A Mission vs. The Quebecers - **1/2
*WWF Championship*: Yokozuna (c) vs. Lex Luger - **3/4
Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb - DUD
*Ladder Match for WWF Intercontinental Championship*: Razor Ramon (c) vs. Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
*WWF Championship*: Yokozuna (c) vs. Bret Hart - ***

*MVPs*: Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, Razor Ramon

OVERALL: 7.5/10


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Guess I'll be doing a Cal now and reviewing the Wrestlemanias...
> 
> *WRESTLEMANIA X*
> 
> ...


ONLY!!!?

That match gets a perfect 5 stars from me.

@Srdjan99

Thanks again man .


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I thought it was a ***** the first time I watched it when it aired live, maybe my vision has been hindered by the fact I haven't seen it for a couple of years.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Randomly watched WM13 last night. Outside of Austin/Hart which was nothing short of AMAZING, it was complete dreck. Kind of hard to imagine one of the great years in WWF history had such a poor WM, but it damn sure did. The Taker/Sid title match was terrible. Really weak title match, even worse when it has to follow Austin/Hart.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Yeah, WM13 is pretty much a one match show. I thought the six man street fight was a helluva lot of fun though, and was placed in exactly the right place on the card. Straight after a heated and intensely serious bloodbath, what better way to follow it than a no-brainer, weapons filled brawl.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Yeah, WM13 is pretty much a one match show. I thought the six man street fight was a helluva lot of fun though, and was placed in exactly the right place on the card. Straight after a heated and intensely serious bloodbath, what better way to follow it than a no-brainer, weapons filled brawl.


That's true. It was a good, fun brawl if nothing else.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's switch tones a little bit here... Here are my top five matches of the PG Era :

The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXVI
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar : Extreme Rules 2012
John Cena vs CM Punk : Money in the Bank 2011
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXV
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan : Over the Limit 2012

Which of these five matches would you consider the strongest and why? Is there a match that you feel I'm paying a great injustice to by not including it in my current top five? Am I greatly overrating something?

Personally I feel as if all five of these matches are great in a different way ; from the uniqueness of a Brock vs Cena to the flawless wrestling of Punk and Bryan, every single one of those matches has a quality about it that is better than the rest of the pack. Personally I believe that Brock-Cena and HBK-Taker from XXVI are clearly above the rest of the pack and I'd honestly put them in my top five WWF/WWE matches ever.

In depth discussion and reasons why plz.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Ummmm.... No? They didn't do a good job?
> 
> Seriously, did you see the Go Home show for Elimination Chamber like I did in Memphis, where The Rock sat in the ring for 20 minutes and told stories about crackheads, failing to mention the fact that there was a new stipulation added to his title match, actually failing to mention the match at ALL now that I think about it.
> 
> Punk did all he could have in the build for that one (as his character REVOLVES around the title) while Rocky did fuck all, instead opting for nonsense for the live crowd such as the Memphis fiasco as well as all the Cookiepuss and Twinkie Tits bullshit.


 It was a good job. The first segment, Rock was talking about how impressive Punk's long title reign is and how that in 20 days he was going to break the reign. He clearly stated the importance of the title to him later in the feud by saying how he has worked so hard for it and it's in his blood. Cookie Puss wasn't even meant to be taken seriously, that wasn't his message of the promo. It's a very minor aspect of the promo, lets focus on the major things such as when Rock listed three reasons why he wanted to beat Punk (one of them is that he wants to win the title). Has Rock mentioned cookie puss ever since? 

Again, how could you claim Punk did all he could? IIRC, the segment before Rock's return Punk talked about things that were totally irrelavent to the title match at the Rumble. For instance, how are Brodus Clay, Tyson Kidd or Little Jimmy relevant to the Rock's title match? It was well delivered but not relevant. The Rock's go home show for EC was irrelavent, yes. No one is saying it wasn't. The thing you are forgetting is that in the same show, Punk was involved in the 'bromance' segment with Heyman which didn't develop any storylines. What's the point of Heyman quitting and then changing his mind a few minutes later. 

As far as irrelavent promos go, both Rock and Punk are tied at 2-2 (Rock concert and that crackhead story promo) but I choose not to focus on just two little words (cookie puss and twinkie tits) that were not major at all. As mentioned before, Rock clearly put Punk over by telling him how badass and dangerous he is and how his title reign is historic. Then he spoke about how important the title match is to him. Cookie Puss is a very minor aspect. It's like say Punk - Cena MITB 2011 was a fail because there were two small botches in the match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Let's switch tones a little bit here... Here are my top five matches of the PG Era :
> 
> The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXVI
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar : Extreme Rules 2012
> ...


I'd replace Punk/Bryan with Taker/HHH from 28, simply because the emotion and the drama mixed with the million 2.99 kick-outs and a nuts crowd were a moment I didn't believe Punk/Bryan, despite its pretty much *****-worthy wrestling, could parallel. Though I see where you're coming from. Taker/HBK 25 is the 3rd GOAT match imo, but for obvious reasons I firmly put it above the rest.

If I had to make a Top 10 of the PG Era, it'd look like this:
1 - Taker/HBK 25
2 - Taker/HHH 28
3 - Taker/HBK 26
4 - Cena/Lesnar
5 - Cena/Punk MITB
6 - Jericho/HBK NM 08
7 - Punk/Bryan OTL
8 - Jericho/Rey Bash 09
9 - Punk/Jericho ER
10 - Sheamus/Bryan ER
HM: Taker/Edge HIAC


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Let's switch tones a little bit here... Here are my top five matches of the PG Era :
> 
> The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXVI
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar : Extreme Rules 2012
> ...


That's a pretty legit top 5. I'd definitely have HBK/Taker WM25, Punk/Cena and Cena/Lesnar for sure. All for obvious reasons really. I'd probably have Punk/Bryan from OTL too simply for flawless wresting as you said. I'm a big fan of HBK/Y2J ladder match from No Mercy 2008, so that might sneak in there. Though that would mean leaving out a few other greats such as the HBK/Taker rematch. Tough choice.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Batista vs HBK/Cena - No Way Out 2007

****1/4

That is a fucking tag match, loved it. HBK/Cena/Taker interaction :mark:

Apart from Cole's damn flu ridden voice on commentary lol.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Can someone walk me through HBK's thought process of trying a moonsault at the end of the first Shawn/Taker Mania Match


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SCM didn't put Taker away and Shawn was trying to pull out a high-risk move of desperation?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Pretty much what Clique said.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Moonsault is generally a high risk/low rewarding move and Taker wasn't even down, and Shawn is half of Taker's size so it just seemed like an obvious Tombstone spot to me. The finish could of been better.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Idk, he had tried everything else in his repertoire. The moonsault was a signature move of his, so it kinda made sense as a last-ditch effort, albeit an obvious set up for a catch -> Tombstone.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> Can someone walk me through HBK's thought process of trying a moonsault at the end of the first Shawn/Taker Mania Match


Shawn Michaels was getting ahead of himself trying to be MR WRESTLEMANIA and pay'd for it.

Shawn in the build for the WM 26 said it himself that it was the one mistake that cost him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's probably the best answer. :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 matches from the PG era:

Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXV
John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules 2012
Undertaker vs Triple H - Wrestlemania XXVIII
Randy Orton vs Christian - Over the Limit 2011
John Cena vs CM Punk - Money in the Bank 2011


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Let's switch tones a little bit here... Here are my top five matches of the PG Era :
> 
> The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels : Wrestlemania XXVI
> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar : Extreme Rules 2012
> ...


My Top 5 of the PG Era (going from August 2008-present):

(*****)
1) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 25
(****3/4)
2) CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan Over the Limit 2012
(****1/2)
3) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 26
4) Undertaker vs. Edge Summerslam 2008
5) The Shield vs. Ryback and Team Hell No TLC 2012

Shield/Ryback and Team Hell No is GOAT TLC match imo. Not a second of the match is wasted, some awesome comebacks and everyone played their role to perfection. Shield looked badass, spots made sense and looked cool, and the pace was incredible.

Undertaker vs. Edge Summerslam 2008 was a magnificent feud ender. No element of the match was less than good imo. In-ring work was good, psychology and storytelling were awesome, and the finishing stretch, despite being a burial of sorts, was still perfect in this circumstance. Awesome spot with Edge spearing Taker through the cage, and the aftermatch was cool as well. Match delivers in all aspects and although it dropped 1/4* on my viewing of it yesterday and is now my 4th GOAT Cell match (as opposed to where it was at 3rd), it's still a classic.

Taker vs. HBK WM26, awesome way for HBK to go out. The selling by Taker is incredible, and is only topped imo by his (near-death) selling the year after against HHH. But this match has so much going for it, great nearfalls, and an incredible end with one final slap of defiance by HBK before getting planted with a jumping tombstone for the 1-2-3. Best career-ending match ever imo.

CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan... I say this a lot, but the fact they made something out of nothing still astounds me. They went out there, had a very alive crowd, went back and fourth at an amazing pace, and everything flowed smoothly. Finish is what I've seen a lot of people not like, but I thought it was the perfect way to have Punk retain the title and keep the feud going. A true wrestling classic and Top 15 of all time.

Taker vs. HBK WM25... after getting through my top 50 matches of all time the past few days (which has been a blast btw, and encompassed all my *****, ****3/4, ****1/2, and some of my ****1/4 matches), this match tops the list as GOAT. When I get right down to it, this match does it all. Even when they had quite a bit of downtime after Taker's dive over the top rope, all it did was create an incredibly dramatic moment, wondering if Taker would be able to continue and even a worry that he may not make it in before the count of 10. Outside of that though the pacing was perfect, the finishing stretch was amazing, the finish itself was incredible, and this match took everything I want to see in a match and excelled in all elements. I haven't seen anyone else put it as the GOAT match (and I can see the arguments against it), but there's never been a time where I watch this match and not end up blown away. Even when I was trying to be harsh and look for any reason I could to not have it at ***** on this last watch, I just couldn't. There was one tiny botch I believe where HBK and/or Taker botched a DDT, but one minor botch wasn't enough for me and the enjoyment of watching this match far outweighed it to the point I even forgot about it until I started writing this post. So yeah, GOAT now imo.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Top 5 of PG era

1. HBK V Undertaker WM 25 ****** *********** **
2. CM Punk V Cena MITB 2011 *****
3. HBK V Undertaker WM 26 ****3/4
4. Undertaker V HHH WM 28 ****1/2
5. CM Punk V Danie Bryan OTL 2012 ****1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels *_(King of the Ring 1997)_​So idk the full story of why this happening, but these two are the Tag Team Champions and I just assume they had this match to see who the better man/wrestler was. They clearly don't like each other too much. Starts out a little shaky. A special olympics kid jumps (or falls) over the rail and it apparently takes 2 or 3 people (also Shawn himself) to walk this kid to the back. Austin wants to actually wrestle the match but Shawn is busy with the kid, which is nice of course. 

First few minutes are a bit of a feeling out process, not sure which route they're gonna take the match. They start kicking it into high gear though and have a really cool sequence of counters and pin reversals on the mat. Austin then takes control and goes into full on heel mode(he's got a LOT of fans in the crowd though, despite him throwing up multiple middle fingers) and starts using the ropes for leverage. He even gorilla press slams Michaels on the exposed concrete on the floor, nice spot there.

Michaels eventually makes his comeback and they start showing flashes of greatness again by going full speed at running the ropes and hitting counters and shit. This match could've been really special had they had a proper finish, but I totally understand why they went the route they did to of course protect both guys and still make it entertaining. Austin stunners the original ref and Michaels superkicks the next one who comes in, after he gets a nearfall on Sweet Chin Music. Earl Hebner then comes out and disqualifies both of them. The match had its average moments but the majority of it was a lot of fun, including the ending. Sort of a forgotten match in the careers of both men. Great stuff.

******​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> My Top 5 of the PG Era (going from August 2008-present):
> 
> (*****)
> 1) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 25
> ...


Really? Better than the Hardys/E&C/Dudleyz ones in your mind too?


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk (8/23/2009)-*****
-This was an incredible match that was already built on top of an incredible feud. Tie up to start and Punk takes control, giving Jeff a couple of chairshots. Punk starts to climb but Jeff stops him and starts giving Punk blows. Jeff goes on to climb but Punk stops him this time. Punk goes for the GTS but Jeff pushes him into the ladder. Jeff goes for Poetry in Motion but Punk grabs him and dumps him on the top half of the chair (ouch). Punk starts to take control, hitting a suicide dive he tries to behead Jeff with a chair but misses and takes a chairshot off the steel steps. Poetry in Motion to the barricade, Jeff puts the Punker on a table outside and goes for a top rope splash but Punk avoids. Punk climbs the ladder in ring but Jeff stops him and they battle on the ladder before Jeff counters the GTS into a Ladder Bomb. Jeff fights up the ladder and reaches for the belt but Punk pushes him into the corner ropes; Punk hits a sick Superplex into the ladder. Jeff hits a desperation Twist of Fate and goes for the Swanton but Punk counters; he hits the Shining Wizard but when going for the bulldog Jeff dumps him through a table outside the ring that Punk ironically set up earlier in the match. Punk comes back and tries to take control again but Jeff stops him by beating the shit out of him with chairs. Jeff gets a XL ladder, climbs it and hits a SUPER SWANTON on Punk through the announcer’s table (good camera work here). Punk’s climbing to the belt and Jeff’s fighting to get back in the ring was absolutely phenomenal, which Punk complemented with his facial expressions. They do the tug of war finish with Punk coming out on top.

As much as I detest WWE injecting personal lives into their angles one cannot deny that Punk/Jeff’s chemistry was absolutely insane they complemented each other so well. This feud elevated the WHC + Grisham/JR on commentary and this was definitely a 2009 MOTYC for me. Now this was the Punk I was a fan of, dude has seriously regressed since 2009 IMO.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Really? Better than the Hardys/E&C/Dudleyz ones in your mind too?


I'm sorry, my mistake. GOAT TLC match I can recall well enough to rate... Hardys/E&C/Dudleyz I haven't seen in a long long long long long long long time. I've been meaning to give it a watch for a long while now, but I always push it off. I really should at least before I'm finished going through my list.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's the GOAT PG era TLC match... :side:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of GOAT PG stuff:

Top 5 TV Matches of PG Era:
1 - Usos & Barreta/Slater, Kidd & Gabriel
2 - Cena/Punk Feb 13
3 - Swagger/Christian Feb 09
4 - Rey/Morrison Sep 09
5 - ADR/Ziggler ME


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio vs Ziggler one of the best TV matches since 2008? Woah, hardly. It wasn't even one of the best from this year. About 10 others matches popping in are demolishing it: Taker vs Finlay, Finlay vs Hardy, Regal vs Goldust, McIntyre vs Masters, Ziggler vs Masters, Finlay vs Kane, Brothers of Destruction vs Finlay/Booker, Regal vs Young, Swagger vs Kaval, McIntyre vs Kaval, Regal vs Danielson x2, etc.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I watched HBK/Taker II as part of working my way through HBK Mania matches and I don't know what happened. The match dropped BIG TIME for me, so much in fact, that I'm actually going to watch it again because I refuse to believe that it could fall so far since the last time I watched it. I must have been in an off mood or not paying attention or something. Strange.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Matches I've seen that would probably make my 'Best of TV PG Era' list:

Cena vs. Punk (_RAW 2/25/13_) **** 1/4
Cena vs. HBK (_RAW 1/12/09_) **** 1/4
Mysterio vs. Morrison (_SD 9/4/2009_) ****
*Falls Count Anywhere: *Miz vs. Morrison (_RAW 1/3/2011_) ****
*Last Man Standing: *Triple H vs. Orton (_RAW 6/22/2009_) *** 3/4
*Last Man Standing: *Edge vs. Kane (_SD 1/7/2011_) *** 3/4 (not enough love for this puppy)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Need to see this Cena/HBK match from 09. Doesn't ring any bells, though I wasn't watching as actively around that time. Cena/Punk from this year and Morrison/Mysterio are good shouts.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Del Rio vs Ziggler one of the best TV matches since 2008? Woah, hardly. It wasn't even one of the best from this year. About 10 others matches popping in are demolishing it: Taker vs Finlay, Finlay vs Hardy, Regal vs Goldust, McIntyre vs Masters, Ziggler vs Masters, Finlay vs Kane, Brothers of Destruction vs Finlay/Booker, Regal vs Young, Swagger vs Kaval, McIntyre vs Kaval, Regal vs Danielson x2, etc.


Well, a lot of those aren't PG Era 

ADR vs Ziggler is in by default, considering my rating for it. Rewatch on others I had high (i.e. Morrison's FCA matches with Sheamus and Miz, and the Edge vs Orton vs Jericho Triple Threat) might just take it out.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Need to see this Cena/HBK match from 09. Doesn't ring any bells, though I wasn't watching as actively around that time. Cena/Punk from this year and Morrison/Mysterio are good shouts.


Neither was I.  Watched from the RAW 2009 set. Here's my review for it, but BEWARE of minimal spoilers. 
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12332602-post9807.html


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Well, a lot of those aren't PG Era
> 
> ADR vs Ziggler is in by default, considering my rating for it. Rewatch on others I had high (i.e. Morrison's FCA matches with Sheamus and Miz, and the Edge vs Orton vs Jericho Triple Threat) might just take it out.


By gum you're correct, sir. Mind went nutso following the list scrambling. Mostly about the Undertaker matches & Finlay vs Kane. Rest hold up though. Falls Count Anywhere between Morrison and Miz was a blast when I last saw it. Have a few Miz matches from RAW in 2011 that actually kind of rule when I think about it: vs Danielson 2/14, w/Cena vs Gabriel & Slater 2/21, & vs Cena 5/2. All of which I'd personally take over Ziggler vs Del Rio too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thought HBK-Taker II from XXVI was leaps and bounds ahead of the XXV match up, although comparing the two is pretty difficult to do due to both being so different. Taker-HBK @ XXV is more of your adrenaline rush junkie kind of match with some of the most breathtaking near falls and excitement you'll ever see. However when it comes to breaking down the story of XXVI with tons of callbacks and the epic leg work and subsequent selling from the Undertaker, I think it's not only five stars (same with XXV), but it's in that elite category of matches such as HBK-Taker from Badd Blood, Hart-Austin at Wrestlemania XIII, and Hart-Owen at Wrestlemania X.

It's my third greatest WWF/WWE match ever, an emotional roller coaster from start to finish and the only match in the PG Era that I could see over it in my eyes would be Brock vs Cena.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best TV matches since '09? Only #1 will be certain, the rest are honestly in no succint order.

1. Christian/Swagger 2/24/09
2. Masters/Mcintyre 5/13/11
3. Cena/Mysterio 7/26/11
4. Christian/Mcintyre 7/30/10 
5. Punk/Mysterio 2/12/10

Do Ambrose/Regal x2 count as 'TV' matches? If so both would probably be above Punk/Mysterio & Christian/Mcintyre on that list. Morrison/Bourne 4/14/09 wasn't far away from making the cut in fairness. Still need to really watch Punk/Cena in depth to see whether I'd put it that high. Punk/Hardy Steel Cage match from '09 is super but again, I don't recall thinking highly of it to be putting it that high.

I'd say Shield vs Ryback, Bryan & Kane was a better 'TLC' match than Summerslam '00 and Wrestlemania '17. Hard to really compare them in too great a detail since both were different approaches to the gimmick and thus the onus and flow of both matches was entirely different, but I definitely consider the Shield match a far better match overall. Though as has been said in the past, I'm not a great fan of the Hardy/E & C/Dudleys saga.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with rewatching Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan from Extreme Rules. Still an excellent match and as good as I remember it being. Chicago crowd is on fire, lots of great back and forth and nearfalls plus great shoulder work by Bryan that caused the DQ fall immediately followed by an easy fall with the LeBell Lock. Sheamus tapping would have done no harm, though. ★★★★½.

I may have to watch Punk vs Hardy, both cage and TLC soon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> By gum you're correct, sir. Mind went nutso following the list scrambling. Mostly about the Undertaker matches & Finlay vs Kane. Rest hold up though. Falls Count Anywhere between Morrison and Miz was a blast when I last saw it. Have a few Miz matches from RAW in 2011 that actually kind of rule when I think about it: vs Danielson 2/14, w/Cena vs Gabriel & Slater 2/21, & vs Cena 5/2. All of which I'd personally take over Ziggler vs Del Rio too.


Yeah, for the shit worker he is, there are a couple of good Miz matches out there, mostly on TV - FCA vs Morrison, Tornado Tag w/Swagger vs Rey & Riley, two ME matches vs Ziggler and Kofi, WWE Title match vs Rey, w/Ziggler vs Jericho & Christian and IC Title vs Christian on SD.

I might relook at some of those matches - though the idea of a Miz vs Cena match being better than ADR vs Ziggler is kinda wary-worthy imo :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't see why Regal vs Ambrose wouldn't count. Might have only been in FCW, but it is a subsidiary of WWE so it counts. As does Rollins vs Ambrose series. (the third match, holy CRAP :mark 

Punk vs Hardy Steel Cage goes a long way with me. Ha, I've got massive steel cage discussion on my brain right now. Brilliant affair with a story that simply oozes out emotion. Hard to believe it happened on TV in the modern day and remained to be such a classic. At least in my eyes. Not to talk down TV matches in a more current status - only to embrace how much it pleases me to know any chance a match with potential occurs, it can deliver.

Cena vs Mysterio. Yep. I about creamed my entire life force for that match when it first happened. Glad to see it is getting more appreciation nowadays. Remembered a few debates I had with some folk who didn't find it to be anything special. Safe to say I defended my side with immense conviction.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I feel like hitting a small child whenever somebody says that Brock Lesnar vs John Cena @ Extreme Rules 2012 was just Cena being beaten up and making a superman comeback. I don't think a single criticism of any other match out there enrages me as much as that one does.

Anybody here have any common criticisms of matches that they DESPISE ?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Don't see why Regal vs Ambrose wouldn't count. Might have only been in FCW, but it is a subsidiary of WWE so it counts. As does Rollins vs Ambrose series. (the third match, holy CRAP :mark
> 
> Punk vs Hardy Steel Cage goes a long way with me. Ha, I've got massive steel cage discussion on my brain right now. Brilliant affair with a story that simply oozes out emotion. Hard to believe it happened on TV in the modern day and remained to be such a classic. At least in my eyes. Not to talk down TV matches in a more current status - only to embrace how much it pleases me to know any chance a match with potential occurs, it can deliver.
> 
> Cena vs Mysterio. Yep. I about creamed my entire life force for that match when it first happened. Glad to see it is getting more appreciation nowadays. Remembered a few debates I had with some folk who didn't find it to be anything special. Safe to say I defended my side with immense conviction.


Sheeeit if that's the case then both would be top 5 for me. The rematch would likely be above the original match and I'd have to rewatch Cena/Mysterio & Masters/Mcintyre to assess just how high I'd put. Its not touching Christian/Swagger 2/24 for me, but that speaks more about the timeless quality of that match rather than to be used as a disservice against Regal/Ambrose.

Punk/Hardy might be a top 5 Cage match in company history, or failing that certainly of the modern era. Backlund/Slaughter '81, Hardy/Edge '05 & HHH/Flair '05 would definitely be above it, but that's about as far as I can think. Haven't seen Hart/Hart for years so would be hard pressed to include that, don't remember Angle/Edge, Jericho/Christian, Cena/Sheamus, Cena/Miz/Morrison/, MNM/Batista & Rey, Eddie/Mysterio, Eddie/JBL or Batista/Jericho being memorable or significantly better either.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Need to see this Cena/HBK match from 09. Doesn't ring any bells, though I wasn't watching as actively around that time. Cena/Punk from this year and Morrison/Mysterio are good shouts.


They have two TV matches in 2009 but the first is by far the best. Both took place during that HBK/JBL angle where Shawn owed debt to JBL and had to do what he told him to do.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Top 5 matches of PG Era:

HBK/Undertaker WM25
HBK/Undertaker WM26
Cena/Punk MITB '11
Bryan/Punk OTL '12
Jericho/HBK NM '08


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Yeah, for the shit worker he is, there are a couple of good Miz matches out there, mostly on TV - FCA vs Morrison, Tornado Tag w/Swagger vs Rey & Riley, two ME matches vs Ziggler and Kofi, WWE Title match vs Rey, w/Ziggler vs Jericho & Christian and IC Title vs Christian on SD.
> 
> I might relook at some of those matches - though the idea of a Miz vs Cena match being better than ADR vs Ziggler is kinda wary-worthy imo :side:


It's the ideal type of Cena vs Miz match. Great atmosphere, fast work, constant action and the like. Exactly what the WM match SHOULD have been. Watch both and their like night & day. Ziggler vs ADR is so linear I can't find any mass appeal about it. Even for the length it got - about 17 minutes - there really wasn't anything noteworthy behind it. A few bumps by both men and that's all.

Tornado Tag fits the bill of his RAW 2011 resume. Awesome match. Brye and I will forever mark for it. (always put him over whenever it gets brought up. )

Ooooh that Miz vs Ziggler match from Main Event was a LOT of fun. Good stuff. Probably Miz's best next to the Cesaro match from Elimination Chamber during his tenure as a face. Props on mentioning the Intercontinental Championship rematch vs Christian too. A forgotten gem from 2012, imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Top TV Matches of the PG Era means Cena/Mysterio all the way. Love that thing. I need to watch it again tbh. Wish those two were allowed to go at it on PPV at least once. They'd tear the house down no doubt.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Sheeeit if that's the case then both would be top 5 for me. The rematch would likely be above the original match and I'd have to rewatch Cena/Mysterio & Masters/Mcintyre to assess just how high I'd put. Its not touching Christian/Swagger 2/24 for me, but that speaks more about the timeless quality of that match rather than to be used as a disservice against Regal/Ambrose.
> 
> Punk/Hardy might be a top 5 Cage match in company history, or failing that certainly of the modern era. Backlund/Slaughter '81, Hardy/Edge '05 & HHH/Flair '05 would definitely be above it, but that's about as far as I can think. Haven't seen Hart/Hart for years so would be hard pressed to include that, don't remember Angle/Edge, Jericho/Christian, Cena/Sheamus, Cena/Miz/Morrison/, MNM/Batista & Rey, Eddie/Mysterio, Eddie/JBL or Batista/Jericho being memorable or significantly better either.


So many grand affairs popping up is making it hard for me to even conjure up a top 5 list at this rate. From the matches spit out from you and I both, oof. It's tough considering I adore each. Masters vs Ziggler might make it only b/c of how much it speaks to me with the creative way it was worked. Superstars in 2010 is like ECW circa 2009 - you can nearly pick all the top matches from the 52 weeks alone.

Punk vs Hardy has all the others you listed beat imo. Even Flair vs HHH despite it being excellent in its own right. Hardy vs Edge will probably forever be my #1 from WWF/WWE when it comes to a cage match. Like I said a few days ago - Backlund vs Slaughter has to be viewed by me again for me to rank it. Although I just want to see it again for the pure fun it brings in being great. Luckily WWE was wise enough to release one of their matches on DVD.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Top TV Matches of the PG Era means Cena/Mysterio all the way. Love that thing. I need to watch it again tbh. Wish those two were allowed to go at it on PPV at least once. They'd tear the house down no doubt.


I've actually never seen that match due to missing Raw that night. Must watch it at some point.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It's the ideal type of Cena vs Miz match. Great atmosphere, fast work, constant action and the like. Exactly what the WM match SHOULD have been. Watch both and their like night & day. Ziggler vs ADR is so linear I can't find any mass appeal about it. Even for the length it got - about 17 minutes - there really wasn't anything noteworthy behind it. A few bumps by both men and that's all.
> 
> Tornado Tag fits the bill of his RAW 2011 resume. Awesome match. Brye and I will forever mark for it. (always put him over whenever it gets brought up. )
> 
> Ooooh that Miz vs Ziggler match from Main Event was a LOT of fun. Good stuff. Probably Miz's best next to the Cesaro match from Elimination Chamber during his tenure as a face. Props on mentioning the Intercontinental Championship rematch vs Christian too. A forgotten gem from 2012, imo.


Totally different than the WM 27 match in the positive side? I hope it's also like that when it's compared to their I Quit Match which is worth 10000 fpalm

Forgotten gems in 2012 are a dime dozen. Orton vs Barrett No DQ, Kofi vs Ziggler on Superstars, Sheamus vs Cesaro in September (the one where Cesaro hits the Alpamare), the Sheamus vs Tensai saga, Christian vs Cody NWO, Cena vs ADR FCA, Cena vs Bryan in July, Bryan vs Show No DQ, Cena & Punk vs Bryan & Show, Rollins vs Mahal NXT Title... etc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm watching Royal Rumble 2013 at the moment.

Fucking KILL ME. That Last Man Standing Match is fucking HORRENDOUS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I watched HBK/Taker II as part of working my way through HBK Mania matches and I don't know what happened. The match dropped BIG TIME for me, so much in fact, that I'm actually going to watch it again because I refuse to believe that it could fall so far since the last time I watched it. I must have been in an off mood or not paying attention or something. Strange.


Out of curiosity, what do you have it at with that watching?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ I'm afraid to rate it lol so I don't know! I'm going to watch it again, that and the Mania XX triple threat to finish the lot and then post all my thoughts together for the hell of it. 



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I've actually never seen that match due to missing Raw that night. Must watch it at some point.


It's on the Best of Raw/SD 11 set if you have access to that at all. Top notch stuff though. Two purest of the pure babyfaces doing their thing. Doesn't get much better than that.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm watching Royal Rumble 2013 at the moment.
> 
> Fucking KILL ME. That Last Man Standing Match is fucking HORRENDOUS.


That's the event which ends with Cena pointing at the Wrestlemania sign right? Right?!

unk3



Starbuck said:


> It's on the Best of Raw/SD 11 set if you have access to that at all. Top notch stuff though. Two purest of the pure babyfaces doing their thing. Doesn't get much better than that.


Ah, thanks. I do have 'access' to that set so I'll get round to watching it. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Totally different than the WM 27 match in the positive side? I hope it's also like that when it's compared to their I Quit Match which is worth 10000 fpalm
> 
> Forgotten gems in 2012 are a dime dozen. Orton vs Barrett No DQ, Kofi vs Ziggler on Superstars, Sheamus vs Cesaro in September (the one where Cesaro hits the Alpamare), the Sheamus vs Tensai saga, Christian vs Cody NWO, Cena vs ADR FCA, Cena vs Bryan in July, Bryan vs Show No DQ, Cena & Punk vs Bryan & Show, Rollins vs Mahal NXT Title... etc.


Sheamus vs Tensai - YES. Matches ruled so much.

Orton vs Barrett No DQ is a bit of a blur on my part. I know the first time I watched it, I thought it probably was their best match since the tables at TLC. Shockingly enough it wasn't a total blahfest like how the majority of all their others are. Got it on DVD so it can always be viewed again to see if it is worth a mention.

Ziggler vs Kofi matches never got a rise out of me. All felt exactly the same as the last. With lots of time or without I thought both did a fairly poor job of changing things up. I can see why they're aesthetically pleasing to watch though.

All of the rest labled are the tops. I'd chuck in the first Punk vs Show singles match following MITB in the list too. Damn good match. Rollins vs Mahal had to be the NXT MOTY last year. Not only was it quality, but Rollins got Mahal to no doubt his career match. To say I was impressed was an understatement. Rollins showed he now can have the capability of bringing out the strength in a wrestler too. Evolution of his work has damn near come full circle.



KingOfKings said:


> I'm watching Royal Rumble 2013 at the moment.
> 
> Fucking KILL ME. That Last Man Standing Match is fucking HORRENDOUS.


You're crazy, man. Mediocrity personified was that event. Watch Brock vs Cena quickly to remove the taint. Or better yet, explore some of the Superstars matches I always put over. William Regal will feed your soul nothing but goodness.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ I'm afraid to rate it lol so I don't know! I'm going to watch it again, that and the Mania XX triple threat to finish the lot and then post all my thoughts together for the hell of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, well, can u at least give your thoughts?

Top TV PG Era match I have to check when I get home, but probably Punk/Ziggler Nov 2011 or Punk/Henry first match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finally got through WM 19. Not because it was a chore, but because of work I've only managed to watch like, a match a day for the last few days . Event still holds up tremendously, and yeah, still the best WM ever. Doubtful anything to come will beat it. Shame the tag titles match got moved to Heat or whatever before the event so they could do that utterly pointless cat fight, which I didn't even count as a match or anything.

Not looking forward to WM 20. Event is stupendously long and there are only 2 matches on the show that are worth watching imo (Christian/Jericho and the WHC match). But not much is "fuck it, I'll skip" worthy either so I'm in for a long day 2morrow.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk - SummerSlam 2009 (TLC)*
- Much better than their _Night of Champions_ match. It is also more in Jeff's comfort zone which helps as his matches involving ladders and tables are usually more entertaining than straight up singles matches. There's very little wrestling and most of it involves spots that use tables, ladders or chairs in some capacity. Also not much fighting around the championship on the ladder like most ladder matches do. Mostly dead crowd doesn't help as they only really come to life when it's a "nearfall" or a crazy spot. Memorable spots include the Superplex into a ladder and obviously, Hardy doing his best suicide attempt by going for a Swanton Bomb from the top of a giant ladder onto an announce table. Finish also felt a bit flat with only a punch taking down Hardy, allowing Punk to win the title. Not as good as I thought it'd be but Undertaker's appearance post-match really caught me off guard as I had no idea about it. Now it's on to their cage match next. ★★★¼



KingOfKings said:


> I'm watching Royal Rumble 2013 at the moment.
> 
> Fucking KILL ME. That Last Man Standing Match is fucking HORRENDOUS.


This reminds me to watch the main event again soon. I enjoyed it first time, still have the second half of the show in my PC so I should watch it before removing it. Will be great to see ROCK become WWE Champion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane & RVD vs Storm & Morley ended up being a fun match despite only being on Heat. KANE DOES A PLANCHA.

Recently watched 4 out of the 5 main events from 19 recently. It'll never fade from being my favorite WrestleMania.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Falls Count Anywhere DVD:

Triple H vs Cactus Jack: Pretty fun little TV match. Triple H is supposed to face Dude Love (or Mankind) and they have a segment on the tron where Dude and Mankind decide to bring out Cactus and the crowd goes nuts for this. 

Pretty fun little TV match. Not much to it, but the crowd was hot for Cactus. Had some ECW chants. Probably **1/2 stars or so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus vs Helmsley is fantastic. One of the best from '97.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rawk said:


> Lol, well, can u at least give your thoughts?


The whole thing just came off sort of...muted to me. I don't know. I didn't connect with the story like I did before and therefore found it hard to get into. Taker's selling of the leg was fantastic but outside that, it didn't grip me this time. I'm honestly stumped which is why I want to watch it again before delivering a verdict because I used to love it. Very strange.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wanted to take a break from Royal Rumble 2013 to do COURSE WORK.

WHAT. THE. FUCK.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

COURSE WORK > DA ROID 8*D


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The 2013 Rumble event is unbearable.

Honestly one of the worst events ive ever seen

Stars for the hell if it

Del Rio/Show: *
Tag: *1/2
Rumble: *1/2
Rock/Punk: DUD DUD DUD


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Sheamus vs Tensai - YES. Matches ruled so much.
> 
> Orton vs Barrett No DQ is a bit of a blur on my part. I know the first time I watched it, I thought it probably was their best match since the tables at TLC. Shockingly enough it wasn't a total blahfest like how the majority of all their others are. Got it on DVD so it can always be viewed again to see if it is worth a mention.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, the Punk vs Show Raw Main Event match, iirc. Awesome stuff, told a great story. Though NOC 2010 is their real 1st Singles Match as far as I remember.

And here's more stuff I remembered into that list: Bryan vs Ziggler from November, Orton vs Bryan 1st time ever, the Sheamus vs Jericho saga (their July match is BOSS), Punk vs Sheamus ME, the WM 28 Pre-show match, Punk/Jericho/Miz/Ziggler/Truth/Kofi 6-Pack Challenge, Ziggler vs Christian vs Swagger vs Khali, and the AWESOME Sheamus vs Bryan Street Fight.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I mean, with the current rate I'm going at I wouldn't be surprised if I skipped Wrestlemania to go watch paint dry or something, especially if BROCK-GAME doesn't have a decent stipulation. If it's just a No-DQ match with virtually nothing on the line then I'm going to be extremely pissed off. 

I have to watch Wrestlemania just to see Cena's face at the end of the show though 8*D


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:cena4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope Cena cries.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cena winning the rumble actually made things easier for me. As soon as he won the match, I knew Rock would be winning the title that night. :lol

:cena3


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

He already cried at 23. That time it was for his Dad. Maybe this time it will be for his wife, err... KENDRA LUST..or for the CeNation or for himself or something since he's on a road to redemption and all that. 

:cena2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I mean, with the current rate I'm going at I wouldn't be surprised if I skipped Wrestlemania to go watch paint dry or something, especially if BROCK-GAME doesn't have a decent stipulation. If it's just a No-DQ match with virtually nothing on the line then I'm going to be extremely pissed off.
> 
> I have to watch Wrestlemania just to see Cena's face at the end of the show though 8*D


Brock/Trips MUST be more than just No-DQ. I don't Hell in a Cell, because we saw that last year, but just a Street Fight with some attached retiremenet stips or something would be nice.

The only thing that will make Cena winning bearable is doing it a la Mania 17, getting so frustrated that he'll do anything. I wouldn't even mind Vince getting involved.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

iwatchwrestling said:


> The only thing that will make Cena winning bearable is doing it a la Mania 17, getting so frustrated that he'll do anything. I wouldn't even mind :jpl getting involved.


I swear to you Hunter playing the role of Vince and Cena playing Austin would be the greatest thing ever. Trips and Cena burying Rocky on the grandest stage of them all in front of a New York crowd. GOAT. That bandwagon would sure as hell fill up fast.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HE DOES IT FOR THE CENATION.

I actually can't wait until he raises that belt above his head and says "THE CHAMP... IS HERE".

:cena3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vince should just tease the shit out of us by walking down to the ring mid match... then just getting on commentary for the hell of it .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Vince should just tease the shit out of us by walking down to the ring mid match... then just getting on commentary for the hell of it .


:lmao

That would.....not be very nice. Potential riot material right dere with a move like that.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I may hate Cena, but a Trips/Cena corporate faction could be epic if done right.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Cena went heel, Bret would see it coming and give it a 4/10 :lol.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The actual Rumble match from the 2013 Rumble was better than the 2012 one imo. I hated the 2012 one, Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler in the Rumble, Ricardo Rodriguez, trash like Hacksaw, Miz lasting 45 minutes, fuck that. The only good things were Kharma's and Road Dogg's returns, both got great pops, and the Jericho/Sheamus ending stretch. 

I enjoyed the 2013 Rumble match much more, despite Cena winning, but both Rumbles had winners I don't care for so it's whatever. Jericho and Ziggler opening the Rumble and renewing their feud and both lasting the longest was great, returns of Goldust and The Godfather were good too, the final 4 of Orton, Sheamus, Cena and Ryback was fun, 4 of the biggest stars in the WWE today, shame Cena's win ruined it, Ryback should of got the rub there and a Rumble win would of set him back on the right track after having his momentum destroyed by Punk and The Shield, Cena could of easily won a number one contenders match or something to challenge The Rock at Mania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Oh yeah, the Punk vs Show Raw Main Event match, iirc. Awesome stuff, told a great story. Though NOC 2010 is their real 1st Singles Match as far as I remember.
> 
> And here's more stuff I remembered into that list: Bryan vs Ziggler from November, Orton vs Bryan 1st time ever, the Sheamus vs Jericho saga (their July match is BOSS), Punk vs Sheamus ME, the WM 28 Pre-show match, Punk/Jericho/Miz/Ziggler/Truth/Kofi 6-Pack Challenge, Ziggler vs Christian vs Swagger vs Khali, and the AWESOME Sheamus vs Bryan Street Fight.


Probably was. Glad we got a Punker vs Show match with a good amount of time to make up for NOC being far, far too short.

Majority of the list I agree with. Who knew a Khali match would make the cut, haha. Six Pack Challenge kind of stunk though. It was very off with a lot of the flow and generally a disappointment for how much fun it really should have been.

I'd chuck in some Sheamus vs Sandow & Barrett matches to the list. Sheamus vs Barrett from Main Event was (Y). I made a LONG list of all the 2012 TV matches I liked from RAW & Smackdown a few pages back. I should find it atm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nostalgia said:


> The actual Rumble match from the 2013 Rumble was better than the 2012 one imo. I hated the 2012 one, Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler in the Rumble, *Ricardo Rodriguez*, trash like Hacksaw, Miz lasting 45 minutes, fuck that. The only good things were Kharma's and Road Dogg's returns, both got great pops, and the Jericho/Sheamus ending stretch.
> 
> I enjoyed the 2013 Rumble match much more, despite Cena winning, but both Rumbles had winners I don't care for so it's whatever. Jericho and Ziggler opening the Rumble and renewing their feud and both lasting the longest was great, returns of Goldust and The Godfather were good too, the final 4 of Orton, Sheamus, Cena and Ryback was fun, 4 of the biggest stars in the WWE today, shame Cena's win ruined it, Ryback should of got the rub there and a Rumble win would of set him on the right track after having his momentum destroyed by Punk and The Shield, Cena could of easily won a number one contenders match or something to challenge The Rock at Mania.


Hey hey HEY! Ricardo was a highlight of that match! Del Rio was out injured, his music hits, everyone expects him... then out comes Ricardo in a broken down car thinking he's the greatest thing ever :lmao. Didn't we also get Foley and Santino battling it out with sock puppets in that one? THAT was awesome, and didn't last long either so the comedy stuff was kept to a minimum and whatnot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Besides the Sheamus-Jericho ending (WHICH IS AWESOME), fuck the 2012 Rumble match.

This 2013 shit is unbearable, but I remember liking the Rumble match itself somewhat until the final two which was pretty bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Foley made the 2012 Rumble > 2013. 

Not to mention the finish blows the entire 2013 one out of the water.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2013 > 2012 when it comes to the RR match. Finishing stretch is really the only thing 2012 has over the 2013 one. 2012 is one of the worst Rumble matches ever. Bottom 5.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rumble 2013 > 2012 by far. As a full show and for the match itself. 2012 was shit other than Road Dogg and the ending.

Got finished with watching Hardy/Punk in the cage as well as Orton/Batista from JD09. Now I'm watching NoC triple threat involving Orton, Cena and HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both suck. That's my answer to it. I'm not much of the Rumble aficionado that you are, Cal. So that may play a part.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Probably was. Glad we got a Punker vs Show match with a good amount of time to make up for NOC being far, far too short.
> 
> Majority of the list I agree with. Who knew a Khali match would make the cut, haha. Six Pack Challenge kind of stunk though. It was very off with a lot of the flow and generally a disappointment for how much fun it really should have been.
> 
> I'd chuck in some Sheamus vs Sandow & Barrett matches to the list. Sheamus vs Barrett from Main Event was (Y). I made a LONG list of all the 2012 TV matches I liked from RAW & Smackdown a few pages back. I should find it atm.


Many of the Main Event stuff was good. I recall Orton vs Show being a really good tale. I also enjoyed the 6-Man Tag with Orton, Rey & Cara vs ADR & PTP.

Also remember Orton vs Kane FCA, plenty of the Sheamus vs Sandow matches as you mentioned, Orton vs ADR from HIAC, Christian vs McIntyre and Cody vs Gabriel from Superstars all being really good.

2012 was surreally underrated in match quality, tbh. People spend day and night bashing the current product to the point where they simply ignore that they still produce a lot of good stuff. So much good stuff from guys like Punk, Ziggler, Bryan, Sheamus, Cena, Jericho, Henry, ADR, Cesaro, Show, Kane, Christian, Orton, Lesnar, etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Many of the Main Event stuff was good. I recall Orton vs Show being a really good tale. I also enjoyed the 6-Man Tag with Orton, Rey & Cara vs ADR & PTP.
> 
> Also remember Orton vs Kane FCA, plenty of the Sheamus vs Sandow matches as you mentioned, Orton vs ADR from HIAC, Christian vs McIntyre and Cody vs Gabriel from Superstars all being really good.
> 
> 2012 was surreally underrated in match quality, tbh. People spend day and night bashing the current product to the point where they simply ignore that they still produce a lot of good stuff. So much good stuff from guys like Punk, Ziggler, Bryan, Sheamus, Cena, Jericho, Henry, ADR, Cesaro, Show, Kane, Christian, Orton, Lesnar, etc.


Christian vs McIntyre was a top 10 match for me overall last year. Can't forget that gem.

The roster is good and plenty talented. It's the booking of the company that I think where most get the hate from. _(really now, Drew McIntyre a jobber? WHY?)_ Booking quality matches here and there only to eventually be tired out by giving away time after time again. The fact along with having little to no sign of a midcard anymore. The loss of Superstars being complete with a quality match or two weekly was a big blow to that aspect of the company. I get some of the grief. Not going to discount the obvious massive amount of talent the roster holds. To some Tensai is considered a joke - all b/c he got a mega push to lead to nothing - meanwhile he's actually a damn good big man who can put on some good matches. Roster has depth along with some stinkers. Much like anything. Once you pull back the uninteresting moments and look purely at the matches, one can realize the WWE can still give you quality wrestling.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have a feeling that when we look back on 2013, we're going to hate it. 

Just a hunch 8*D.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Hulk Hogan (WWF Champion) vs. The Ultimate Warrior (Intercontinental Champion) - WrestleMania 6 - ****1/2*

Say what you want about Hogan and Warrior but this match is one of the greatest matches i have ever seen,this﻿ match involved two of the most powerful wrestlers in WWE history and in the whole match the crowd was amazing.A true classic that lived up to the hype.Definitely in the top 5 main events in Wrestlemania history.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Hey hey HEY! Ricardo was a highlight of that match! Del Rio was out injured, his music hits, everyone expects him... then out comes Ricardo in a broken down car thinking he's the greatest thing ever :lmao. Didn't we also get Foley and Santino battling it out with sock puppets in that one? THAT was awesome, and didn't last long either so the comedy stuff was kept to a minimum and whatnot.


The entrance was funny with the broken down car, but as soon as he hit the ring with his horribly out of shape physique in that diaper-looking outfit, and started the comedy shit with Santino and Foley it was a massive (N).


Big Z said:


> 2013 > 2012 when it comes to the RR match. Finishing stretch is really the only thing 2012 has over the 2013 one. 2012 is one of the worst Rumble matches ever. Bottom 5.


Agreed here.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone have Cactus Jack vs. Sting - Beach Blast - I Quit Match on their comps in good quality? I have tried looking everywhere.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I have a feeling that when we look back on 2013, we're going to hate it.
> 
> Just a hunch 8*D.


Bud like Jeremy GOD Clarkson says, it could be worse... Could've been 1995. 

Or 2004, where the WHC went missing after WrestleMania 8*D


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Royal Rumble '13 blows Royal Rumble '12 right out of the water. 

Absolutely despised the '12 one, it's without a doubt the worst Royal Rumble match in history. You know it's god awful when Cole and Duggan are involved, you just know it. Many people were missing out and it consisted of too many jobbers. Couldn't believe the lack of star power and lack of excitement, Show entering at #30 made me want to punch a newborn baby. Only good thing about this match was the Sheamus vs. Jericho ending, that was about it.

The '13 one wasn't great by any means but it was decent enough. Much bigger improvement.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd just like to throw my hat in and say both 2012 and 2013 Rumbles were pretty bad. Both near the bottom if I ranked all the Rumbles.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Anyone have Cactus Jack vs. Sting - Beach Blast - I Quit Match on their comps in good quality? I have tried looking everywhere.


I assume you've checked the one on Dailymotion? It's not great quality though. That match is on the Falls Count Anywhere set if you can get access to it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK/Hogan - SS2005

Not quite sure how to rate this, yeah wrong man won, hbk's 'overselling' wasn't as dramatic as I've read IMHO, although when he did it, it was funny, esp the big boot. HBK was really great here, playing the heel perfect like we all know he can, also had to smirk when the some of the crowd chanted 'We want Bret', signalling Micheals to go straight into the sharpshooter.

About to watch Taker/Orton from the same event...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Heel HBK = GOAT

His performance in that match is hilarious. Him getting tossed to the outside and overselling the shit out of it is almost on par with the Big Boot.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'd just like to throw my hat in and say both 2012 and 2013 Rumbles were pretty bad. Both near the bottom if I ranked all the Rumbles.
> 
> 
> 
> *I assume you've checked the one on Dailymotion? It's not great quality though. That match is on the Falls Count Anywhere set if you can get access to it*.


I find it hard to rate matches with atrocious video quality. If anyone does have the Falls Count Anywhere set and would be willing rip me the match and upload it on to Multiupload or Youtube, I will be very grateful.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Heel HBK = GOAT


I was disappointed he just went back to being face after Summerslam 2005, I'd have loved to see one last heel HBK run.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't see how Duggan can be linked to hurting the 2012 Rumble. Jey Uso was a much more pointless addition. Duggan was in the '09 Rumble too. You don't see him getting linked up as a negative there. Feels odd to me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

On the topic of Royal Rumble matches, I actually just finished the 2006 version. Full review of the show is coming later but HOLY HELL at that Triple H performance. Such an emotionally draining match (in a good way) and it's a damn shame it didn't go on last. I really felt like a little kid...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> On the topic of Royal Rumble matches, I actually just finished the 2006 version. Full review of the show is coming later but HOLY HELL at that Triple H performance. Such an emotionally draining match (in a good way) and it's a damn shame it didn't go on last. I really felt like a little kid...


:jpl

But yeah, underrated Rumble match. Not going on last was a travesty.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Heel HBK = GOAT
> 
> His performance in that match is hilarious. Him getting tossed to the outside and overselling the shit out of it is almost on par with the Big Boot.




HBK selling that big boot was a big fuck you to Hogan lol. I bet hulk was Pissed about that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumble 2006. Ouch that show SUCKS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

On topic of Royal Rumble, one of the best Rumbles has to be 2010. A lot of great stuff. The undercard wasn't poor either.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Rumble 2006. Ouch that show SUCKS.


Yeah, the show is god-awful. But the Rumble match is good. Not enough to save it, however.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> HBK/Hogan - SS2005
> 
> Not quite sure how to rate this, yeah wrong man won, hbk's 'overselling' wasn't as dramatic as I've read IMHO, although when he did it, it was funny, esp the big boot. HBK was really great here, playing the heel perfect like we all know he can, also had to smirk when the some of the crowd chanted 'We want Bret', signalling Micheals to go straight into the sharpshooter.


I really enjoyed that match. I remember watching it live and having a blast with it. I'm gonna watch it again to see if it still holds up. 



ATF said:


> On topic of Royal Rumble, one of the best Rumbles has to be 2010. A lot of great stuff. The undercard wasn't poor either.


I LOVE RR 2010. Such an amazing PPV that year. I hold it on par with 1992 and 2000 as one of the top Royal Rumble PPVs.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Rumble 2005 was awesome even though it felt like a jobbers rumble at times and the undercard really delivered.

Royal Rumble 2005 STARZ ratings:

1. HBK vs. Edge *(****)*
2. Undertaker vs. Hiendrech *(***1/2)*
3. JBL vs. Big Show vs. Kurt Angle *(***1/2)*
4. Randy Orton vs. Triple H *(***3/4)*
5. Royal Rumble 2005 *(****)*
6. AND THE SEGMENT WITH EDDIE TAKING RIC FLAIRS NUMBER *(*****************)*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Meh, never thought all that highly of Rumble 2010. Christian/Zeke is really good & Taker/Rey is definitely fun but I remember Sheamus/Orton being dreadful & while Edge's return in the Rumble was a big surprise, I remember the match feeling really short and the ending wasn't all that dramatic. Been a while though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumble 2010 is a good show. Standard goodness from 2010. Although the Rumble match is overrated. Nothing special outside of Punk's 10 minutes of brilliance.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And speaking of 2010, in my honest opinion the Fatal 4 Way PPV was really good and seriously underrated. Nevermind predictability and time issues when there's quality on the show. Jericho/Bourne was excellent, both World Title FFW's were good if short, Kofi/McIntyre was good too, 6-Person Tag was solid, even the Divas FFW wasn't bad (MARYSE WARDBROBE MALFUNCTION).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2010 RR is the 3rd worst RR event ever imo . Christian/Zeke and Rey/Undertaker were both good, but the rest absolutely blew so much it brought the entire event down.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (Steel Cage) - Smackdown 2009*
- Rematch right after SummerSlam and pretty exciting to say the least. They spend most of the time trying to escape and there's not much action with them plain wrestling which brings it down a notch compared to what I've heard from others but the crowd is full of life and the fighting around the door and top of the cage are always awesome. ★★★¾

*Randy Orton vs Batista - Judgment Day 2009*
- I'm surprised but I actually really enjoyed this. Not very long but outside of Orton constantly going outside in order to get heat, the ring action was pretty decent and not as boring-slow as some of their matches have been. Found the part with Orton hugging the steel-post pretty dumb but other than that, he did good when showing his desperation. Not much of a fan for the finish, though. Orton already did that against Cena a year earlier and they could've come up with something more original. Or perhaps had the match be a couple of minutes longer with a ref bump that leads to Legacy interfering and Orton winning dirty. ★★★

*Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H - Night of Champions 2009*
- Not nearly as good as their Wrestlemania match but still enjoyed it. Starts off slow with Orton trying to escape with the faces not allowing him but then gets better when it turns into a traditional triple threat with two men involved in the center constantly. Some good spots such as the STF with the punt being set-up and the Sharpshooter/Crossface combo that Orton tapped out to but no winner because of double submission. Legacy interfere and Orton wins with an RKO. ★★★¼



KingOfKings said:


> I have a feeling that when we look back on 2013, we're going to hate it.
> 
> Just a hunch 8*D.


It's been kinda average so far, but it could be worse. It could be 2012 which was a nightmare come true. I just hope they get rid of 3 hours because the shows are awful to watch with that extra hour.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fatal Four Way was good...outside of the Fatal Four Way matches. Which were the obvious drawbacks to the event. Divas match was fucking abysmal and the WWE Championship match was the dullest excuse for a main event in quite a long time. World Championship one was average, but could have been so much more. It was the "undercard" from the PPV theme that gave you something to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember a damn thing about the 4 way PPV. Just had to wiki it. Forgot that Rey won the belt back then lol. Same with Sheamus too tbh. Both had utterly forgetful title reigns. Sheamus won because of Nexus, right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Nexus caused a massive chaotic scene -> took out John-boy and Sheamus weaseled his was in to win. I'll never forget any of his championship reigns. Highlight of my 2010 Summer. Sheamus & Kane champions, Undertaker returned & Nexus was owning. Brilliant stuff for this fan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sheamus vs Cena steel cage match at MITB was pretty good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I totally remember Kane as champ, I loved that. Feud with Taker was awesome... even if their matches blew outside of the NOC (?) match . But I don't remember anything Rey or Sheamus did outside of Rey losing the belt when Kane cashed in. When/where/to who did Sheamus lose to? Did he have any title defences prior to the match where he lost the belt?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Much like the entire event. MITB 2010 :mark: :mark: :mark:

Sheamus lost to Orton at Night of Champions in the Six Pack Challenge. Sheamus defended the championship against Cena in a Cage at MITB, vs Orton at Summerslam, & "vs" Zack Ryder on RAW when he got to name his own challenger.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There was a 6 pack challenge match? Cage with Cena? Orton at SS? You sure this all really happened? Because I seriously cannot remember ANYTHING :lmao.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, none of that rings the slightest of bells.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

That's because Nexus completely overshadowed anything else that was going on in WWE in 2010.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Lol, I also can't remember a damn thing. I remember the cage with Cena but 6 pack challenge?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Yep. Nexus caused a massive chaotic scene -> took out John-boy and Sheamus weaseled his was in to win. I'll never forget any of his championship reigns. Highlight of my 2010 Summer. Sheamus & Kane champions, Undertaker returned & Nexus was owning. Brilliant stuff for this fan.


I can understand why they're are many Sheamus fans now with how much he's improved over the last few years in terms of match quality, but it's rare to find someone who was a fan of Sheamus in 2010 when he was still quite green, completely un-over and was being shoved down our throats hard. His two WWE Title reigns in the summer of 2010 were completely forgettable with the Nexus Angle going on. I'd compare Sheamus's two WWE Title reigns to Alberto Del Rio's two WWE Title reigns, they didn't last long and they were fairly irrelevant.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Gotta love the new WWE. Push guys by giving them the title. LOL.


----------



## Rusty Shackleford (Aug 9, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I can understand why they're are many Sheamus fans now with how much he's improved over the last few years in terms of match quality, but it's rare to find someone who was a fan of Sheamus in 2010 when he was still quite green, completely un-over and was being shoved down our throats hard. His two WWE Title reigns in the summer of 2010 were completely forgettable with the Nexus Angle going on. I'd compare Sheamus's two WWE Title reigns to Alberto Del Rio's two WWE Title reigns, they didn't last long and they were fairly irrelevant.


Pretty much agree. Back in 2010 it was like Sheamus wasn't even WWE Champion. The big focus was Nexus/Cena. Hell, his match with Randy at Summerslam was completely overshadowed by not only Team WWE vs Nexus but even by Kane's storyline. He has come a very long way in 2 and a half years in terms of his matches. I could barely stand to watch him in the ring back in 2010.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To Sheamus' credit, he's pretty funny and has always been that way from the moment he was born.

All jokes aside, just finished watching Stone Cold vs Dude Love from Over the Edge 98 like I said I would. Excellent match and it's nice to see Foley in a more traditional match rather than all-out hardcore war. Ending was awesome in vintage AE fashion. ★★★★½.

Also lol'd @ "That's Dude's teeth".


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Nobody has Cactus Jack/Sting from Beach Blast 1992.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Royal Rumble 2006

**Cruiserweight Championship - 6-Man Cruiserweight Open
*Kid Kash (c) vs. Gregory Helms vs. Jamie Noble vs. Paul London vs. Funaki vs. Nunzio - ** 1/2

*Special Referee: Trish Stratus*
Mickie James vs. Ashley - * 3/4

JBL vs. The Boogeyman - DUD

The Royal Rumble Match - *** 1/2

*WWE Championship
*Edge (c) vs. John Cena - ** 1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Kurt Angle (c) vs. Mark Henry - * 1/4

*Overall: 5/10*


- Fun little opener. I'm always mark for the top rope swinging neckbreaker spot & ANY Jamie Noble PPV appearance. (Y) This could've used more time.

- I personally didn't think Mickie/Ashley was all that bad, but it probably went a little long to keep the attention of the average fan. Hence all the boos and/or silence from the crowd. But hey, Ashley tried. 

- LOL, The Boogeyman. Fuckin gross.

- They shouldn't have even had a Rumble match, just do Triple H vs. Rey Mysterio, cause that's really the whole match (literally actually). You know Rey gets all the credit for obvious reasons but TRIPLE H stole the show here, fellas. I'll be damned if he wasn't always involved in something, whether it be his countless close eliminations, eating finishers, rekindling old rivalries or continuing current ones, and let's can't forget having GREAT chemistry with Rey. The first half is solid stuff with a couple fun moments but a lot of the middle portion (especially through all the entrants in the 20s) was just kinda there. The ring just kept piling up and nothing that significant happened, until Randy Orton came in at 30! Then shit kicked up big time. Awesome RKO on Viscera. McMahons stuff was fun and the everything with the final four is AWESOME. I was seriously marking like a kid left and right. Such an emotionally draining match (in a good way of course) and it's insulting that it didn't go on last. Incredible performance from Hunter & another great one from Rey. 

- What in the blue hell is the point of Cena's fancy entrance? Seriously, even if you're the biggest Cena fan, that shit made no sense. This is the same Cena match we've seen 35 times. He gets beaten down for 10 minutes, then wins after a 5 knuckle shuffle, FU, STF. Somewhat good performance from Edge though, hit a BEAUTIFUL missile dropkick and cuts off Cena's comeback a few times.

- No one cared about Angle/Henry, and rightfully so. 1/4* added for those RIDICULOUS chair shots. Brutal. Cool little Undertaker comeback, although it felt incredibly forced.

- It's a shame this event was piss poor cause I really liked the theme. The song they used was pretty awesome and the set design was nifty.​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My top 5 favorite (favorite....not best) Royal Rumbles are....

1992
1998
2000
2004
1993

I'd go as far as to say the 1992 Royal Rumble is one of the top 5 PPVs ever. I love the shit out of that PPV.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cena should of saved that special entrance he had a Royal Rumble 2006 for a WrestleMania. That's probably Cena and Edge worst match together from their 2006 rivalry, and I don't like it because they took the title off of Edge and gave him a transitional reign - despite Edge being very hot at the time and ratings were up during his reign.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Cena should of saved that special entrance he had a Royal Rumble 2006 for a WrestleMania. That's probably Cena and Edge worst match together from their 2006 rivalry, and I don't like it because they took the title off of Edge and gave him a transitional reign - despite Edge being very hot at the time and ratings were up during his reign.


The whole setup was just random. A giant arrow that he walks on and sprays confetti?  Agree with the rest of your post though. Edge gets buried by Cena & Jim Duggan just a couple weeks after the biggest moment of his career.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The whole setup was just random. A giant arrow that he walks on and sprays confetti?  Agree with the rest of your post though. Edge gets buried by Cena & Jim Duggan just a couple weeks after the biggest moment of his career.


I watched the Austin doc in honor of 3-16 on Sat and totally forgot that Duggan won the US title off of him in WCW before Austin left. It's quitethe slap in the face for that moron to bury you. Even as a kid Duggan annoyed me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Anyone else think they should of done Cena/Edge for WrestleMania 22? If Cena didn't take the title from Edge at the Rumble, Edge could of held it until Mania and had a good couple of months with the title which he deserved from being red hot at the time - and he could of dropped the title to Cena at Mania. They could of then continued their feud post Mania. Edge wasn't nearly as a big as Triple H, and that's why I think the match would of made more sense, because am I the only one who thinks it's funny that Cena goes from beating JBL at WrestleMania 21 to beating Triple H at WrestleMania 22, who's one of the biggest stars in the industry. He shouldn't of gone over Triple H that early in his career, Cena/JBL to Cena/Edge is a better transition imo, and he could of easily faced Triple H at WrestleMania 23 and HBK at WrestleMania 24. My post on it in another thread:


Nostalgia said:


> Edge vs Cena should of happened at WrestleMania 22. Edge was red hot at the start of 2006 when he cashed in MITB and won the WWE Title from Cena, ratings were high during his reign, people were interested, and he should of rode that momentum all the way into his first WrestleMania event, but instead Triple H and his ego had to butt and take that away from him just to do HHH/Cena. They could of easily done HHH/Cena at WM23.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Anyone else think they should of done Cena/Edge for WrestleMania 22? If Cena didn't take the title from Edge at the Rumble, Edge could of held it until Mania and had a good few months with the title which he deserved from being red hot at the time - and he could of dropped the title to Cena at Mania. They could of then continued their feud post Mania. Edge wasn't nearly as a big as Triple H, and that's why I think the match would of made more sense, because am I the only one who thinks it's funny that Cena goes from beating JBL at WrestleMania 21 to beating Triple H at WrestleMania 22, Who's one of the biggest stars in the industry. He shouldn't of gone over Triple H that early in his career, Cena/JBL to Cena/Edge is a better transition imo, and he could of faced Triple H at WrestleMania 23 and HBK at WrestleMania 24. My post on it in another thread:




Na they did the right thing going with edge/foley and cena/hhh for WM 22. They REALLY dropped the ball of not saving angle/taker for this event, but for some dumb reason they had it at a B ppv.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I watched the Austin doc in honor of 3-16 on Sat and totally forgot that Duggan won the US title off of him in WCW before Austin left. It's quitethe slap in the face for that moron to bury you. Even as a kid Duggan annoyed me.


Haha. I wouldn't exactly call Duggan a moron, but I see what you're sayin.



Nostalgia said:


> Anyone else think they should of done Cena/Edge for WrestleMania 22? If Cena didn't take the title from Edge at the Rumble, Edge could of held it until Mania and had a good couple of months with the title which he deserved from being red hot at the time - and he could of dropped the title to Cena at Mania. They could of then continued their feud post Mania. Edge wasn't nearly as a big as Triple H, and that's why I think the match would of made more sense, because am I the only one who thinks it's funny that Cena goes from beating JBL at WrestleMania 21 to beating Triple H at WrestleMania 22, Who's one of the biggest stars in the industry. He shouldn't of gone over Triple H that early in his career, Cena/JBL to Cena/Edge is a better transition imo, and he could of faced Triple H at WrestleMania 23 and HBK at WrestleMania 24. My post on it in another thread:


That would've made more sense of course but then we wouldn't have gotten Edge/Foley and HOW DARE YOU try to put anything in place over Cena/HBK at Mania 23!  Seriously though, I don't remember how Cena/HHH even came about to be honest.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nah, in WM22, Edge/Foley and Cena/HHH were two of the only matches were they made the right decision. If only Hogan/Austin had also happened as well as Benoit and Taker facing each other instead of two supbar matches with JBL and Henry.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

fpalm I've just missed the first hour of RAW again because it's started a hour earlier, just like last week, is this a permanent change now?



xdoomsayerx said:


> Na they did the right thing going with edge/foley and cena/hhh for WM 22. They REALLY dropped the ball of not saving angle/taker for this event, but for some dumb reason they had it at a B ppv.


Angle/Taker would of been a great match for Mania, but if they did that, then who would of won the 2006 Rumble? Regardless Rey shouldn't of won the Rumble or won the title at Mania. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> That would've made more sense of course but then we wouldn't have gotten Edge/Foley and HOW DARE YOU try to put anything in place over Cena/HBK at Mania 23!  Seriously though, I don't remember how Cena/HHH even came about to be honest.


They could of done Edge/Foley later in the year after his feud with Cena ended. Edge/Foley at WrestleMania was a classic though. Edge didn't get his first WrestleMania main-event until WrestleMania 24, and while at that point he was a credible main-event talent, his character wasn't as good as 2006. Fuck I just wanted it to be Edge with his awesome character in 2006 main-eventing WrestleMania 22 with Lita in his corner. Edge/Vickie was AWFUL.


----------



## Itami (Jun 28, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> fpalm I've just missed the first hour of RAW again because it's started a hour earlier, just like last week, is this a permanent change now?


Good, don't watch it either. Worst 1st hour of Raw in a long time.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

fpalm at Ziggler having to team up with his no-talent bodyguard at WrestleMania when BIG E HASN'T EVEN HAD A MATCH ON THE MAIN ROSTER YET in a irrelevant match for the titles. Another pointless tag match for Ziggler at Mania. You have one of the better wrestlers on the roster with a gimmick of wanting to steal the show, and what do they do? Put him in tag matches at WrestleMania. And to think if they did Jericho/Ziggler and gave them 15+ minutes, they could literally steal the show, but no they can't have matches like that overshadowing shitty matches like Rock/Cena II. And it looks like it will be Jericho/Fandango for Mania now. fpalm 

The Undertaker/Punk build up was awful tonight. The only good thing so far is Big Show/Orton/Sheamus and The Shield segment, looks like it will be them vs The Shield so Ryback can face Henry. Good. But that's the only good thing that's happened tonight. We're supposed to be on the road to WrestleMania, but the build's been really shitty with most of tonight's show dedicated to pointless filler matches.



Itami said:


> Good, don't watch it either. Worst 1st hour of Raw in a long time.


I've seen a rant thread on the first hour of RAW in the RAW section, so I'm not fussed that I missed it now. Probably only want to check out The Bella Twins segment with Cody/Kaityln that Cole talked about that I missed.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Does Anybody have these matches in HD/Great quality, If so could you upload them to Multiupload (the only file hosting site which is unblocked at my school). I will be very grateful and will reward you with REP.

Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting – Nitro 26/04/1999
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2001
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WM10
Royal Rumble Match - 2004


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ok that triple threat match between Barrett, Miz and Jericho was fun. Barrett retained and it makes me think what he'll do at Mania now, if he'll actually be doing something. I was rooting for Jericho though, he should of become the 10 time IC Champion and I like how the commentators were talking it up, and Jericho would actually win SOMETHING, you know to make his return somewhat worthwhile.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That Triple Threat match started off pretty basic, but once it came back from the break it was good. They could have easily had that at 'Mania and added and extra 5 minutes or so. Fun match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That Triple Threat match started off pretty basic, but once it came back from the break it was good. They could have easily had that at 'Mania and added and extra 5 minutes or so. Fun match.


That seemed like the direction they were heading in last week, but instead they just made the match for this weeks show, and now Miz and Barrett might not be on the Mania card, and Jericho will likely face Fandango. The creative team needs to be fired. So many wrong matches happening at this years WrestleMania.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jericho/Fandango? fpalm Please no.

Though there were rumours of that and after their backstage bit tonight, I thought Y2J might win the gold and Fandango would challenge him for it at 'mania. That might still be the case but then having Barrett retain tonight doesn't really add up.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Fandango is boring gimmick seriously I turned on Bates motel and was more entertained then this crap raw .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Jericho/Fandango? fpalm Please no.
> 
> Though there were rumours of that and after their backstage bit tonight, I thought Y2J might win the gold and Fandango would challenge him for it at 'mania. That might still be the case but then having Barrett retain tonight doesn't really add up.


He didn't win the title tonight - and he had a backstage segment with Fandango, and with all the rumors I wouldn't be surprised if his focus turns to Fandango and he forgets about the IC Title. 

The idea of having Big E and Fandango having their debut match at WrestleMania is just ridiculous. Especially when there's guys like Sandow and Cesaro who have been busting their asses all year hoping to get a WrestleMania match, when they probably won't.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Why does wrestlemania always have the worst undercard of all ppvs. Seriously pay whatever it is ppv fee for 2 matches even worth it lensar - hhh taker -punk.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The winner of the match gets Stephanie McMahon? :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK-GAME in a No Holds Barred match with THE GAME'S CAREER ON THE LINE.

OH FUCKING SHIT. NO. GAME. NO.

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

:HHH2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Now who do I want to win?! :argh:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Triple H/Lesnar is now confirmed to be no holds barred with Triple H's career on the line. Exactly what I wanted. Now I get more invested in it. Currently in terms of the ''big'' matches, the build for Triple H/Lesnar has been better than Rock/Cena and Punk/Taker. But that doesn't say much, all three matches could use A LOT more build.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HAHHAHAHA. That last segment was fucking terrible. Triple H wrestles like twice a year... why am I supposed to care about his career? The crowd was totally silent.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That segment tried it's best but it just fell pretty flat. Still better build up than Rock/Cena though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well..... FUCK.

The Game can't be over. IT CAN NEVER END unk3


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Trips will get the win won't he?

Won't he?!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK has to go over, there's no excuse for BROCK not going over.

Trips has to go out in a blaze of glory ; what else could he do besides be used to put over new stars after this match? Surely nobody wants to do THAT, right?

unk2


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

If he loses then the game can just be reset. And for Stephanie then there would be a lot of others inline


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Like career stips mean a damn thing to anyone not named Shawn Michaels.

HHH still gonna get BORKED. :brock


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

What a terrible crowd tonight.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE GAME character ends at Wrestlemania.

Trips won't wrestle for another few years after that but will eventually come back and resurface as CORPORATE HHH, it's not as if Brock would give a fuck about Trips coming out of retirement anyways .

Sooner or later everybody has to retire, besides Ric Flair. He can stay all he wants.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Yeah I was going to say... How many guys actually abide by kayfabe retirement ... Shawn has managed, and edge literally can't help but to due to legit retirement .. Those are about it


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Triple H/Lesnar is hard to predict for me. The fact this match is happening again makes me think it's just so Triple H can get his win back, but if WWE were smart they would have Lesnar go over again, make him an unstoppable monster for the next PPV's he's booked at that will maximize his drawing potential. With Lesnar signing a new deal they should have Lesnar go over. If they want to do Rock/Brock next year they need Lesnar needs to be built a unstoppable monster imo. Triple H doesn't need to wrestle anymore anyway, it's not like if he loses and his career is on the line he will suddenly leave, no, he's taking over the company in the next few years and he will be with us for many years to come.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK signed a deal through XXXI, so it's for two more years of destruction :brock.

As much as it pains for me to say, it's really time for The Game to end. That's one less part time superstar we have out there taking time away from the young and hungry guys. Hoping Taker and Rock both follow suit at Wrestlemania XXX as well.

BROCK can stay, he's young as fuck and still has a ton left to offer the company.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

So the WM undercard is shaping up like:

Swagger/ADR
Shield/Super Friends Take-2
Jericho/Fandango
Ryback/Henry
Team Hell No/Ziggler & Big E
Barrett/Miz
Funkadorks/Rhodes Scholars

What the..... I just... I'm really... :lmao:lmao:lmao

NHB is a good stip for Trips/Brock at least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Count me in on the side that was disappointed by the stipulation. If the match was going to have a career stipulation, I would have loved it to be an I Quit or a Last Man Standing match. Not sure how exactly Lesnar would quit, but it is still an intriguing match type. I still don't doubt that they could pull off a great match though.

Does anyone know where I could find the Benoit/Kane RAW match in 2004? I am trying to watch it without torrenting, but I'm afraid that I have to stoop that low.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Raw... and I kinda went over this in the Raw thread, but I like you guys in this thread more, so I'll re-write:

- Cena promo and match with Darren Young was a waste of time. Cena may as well have talked to a real rock in the ring for 15 minutes. That would've contributed more to the feud than what they did tonight. Showing the same video package, even though it's a great one, was lame.

-FAN-DAN-GO... don't care. Doesn't interest me, and it's not that he's necessarily a bad mic worker, but he's cloaked in a horrible gimmick... then again I hate dancing gimmicks in general. I think there's some potential in the man behind Fandango, but I can't get into the character at all. Maybe him wrestling under the gimmick will be interesting, maybe. He did get the crowd to react to him, which is something considering the crowd they were dealing with (I'll get to that in a little bit).

-SANDOW SPOKE! Quoted some guy and Truth then quoted himself I think and then they had a match and Sandow ran away and oh, the ignoramuses in the crowd chanted "WHAT!" at Sandow, one of the loudest things the crowd did all night... but once again, I'll get into the crowd later.


-Taker and Punk had only like 5 minutes tonight. Taker's promo was way too short and he was doing a good job (better than what he did last year) and Punk's promo... well... I was more interested in the goofing off Punk was doing with the urn that I barely paid attention to the promo. I don't think it was anything he hasn't said before. Dropping the urn and the "OH SHIT!" was cool, but tonight was by far the weakest build up for Taker/Punk. The last couple of weeks, bar a couple of things has been very good, but tonight bar a couple of things it was mediocre. Oh well, at least it looks like Taker and Punk will be there the next two weeks so they'll hopefully do some more. All I can think of to excuse the poor build this week is they don't really want to let them go all out until the Raw before Mania, where they'll really let the feud play out on the mic to perfection and we'll maybe get a physical altercation between them. One can only hope anyway... 

-Honestly, after that, all the show is a blur until the Shield/Sheamus-Show-Orton interaction, which was good for a start of a build up. Hopefully we see more next week, but it's nothing I'm too impressed with.

-Triple threat IC Title match was above average. I'd probably give it **3/4. Barrett actually winning a match on Raw and retaining his title was awesome. Highlight of the show for me... which, even while I'm a mark, is sad when you have Taker, Punk, Sandow, Lesnar, and even HHH on the show.

-My thoughts on the stips are "meh"... not really the No Holds Barred one, but HHH's career being on the line doesn't matter at all in the future since HHH's is retired outside of a couple matches a year for the last few years anyway. Plus I don't think HHH is losing, which hurts it even more. But even if he was, something like Heyman becoming COO would've been a lot more interesting and at least given me some hope for the future after Mania under the rule of Heyman. Unfortunately the build up is killed for me. Match could still be great if they really go and have an all out war, with blood, brutality, and everything. But besides that, big letdown and the weakest build for a big match feud I can remember in a long time.

-Crowd was dead. Everyone, even the fucking Undertaker, got a weak ass pop or none at all. Most of the matches the crowd was so dead you could hear a pin drop, and that's not a joke. Yeah, the show did suck but they didn't even give it as chance as they were weak even from the start. Worst crowd I can remember in a long time.


As far as Mania card, here's what it's looking like/confirmed:

Rock/Cena
Taker/Punk
Lesnar/HHH
Swagger/ADR
Shield/Super Friends Take-2
Ryback/Henry
Team Hell No/Ziggler & Big E
Jericho/Fandango
Barrett/Miz
New Age Outlaws/Rhodes Scholars

Pretty much what's posted above, though I think NAO vs. Rhode Scholars could happen, and I'd be cool with that. Besides that... Barrett/Miz? Come the fuck on. It's bad enough it's going to be horrible, but I'll also have to watch live Barrett losing the title to Miz. Jericho/Fandango is uninteresting, and the tag title match is underwhelming as well. Ryback/Henry could be a cool monster match and since all the Shield matches have been at least great, I have high hopes for that. Swagger/ADR... both are good in the ring, but how they mesh has yet to be seen. Could be great. Could be horrible. Lesnar/HHH... depends on how brutal they let the match be. Taker/Punk I'm expecting at the very least a great match, if not a classic wrestling contest. It all comes down to what their true chemistry is and how much Punk's injury effects him. Rock/Cena could be good or bad... who knows.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think the biggest question coming out of tonight's RAW is why the fuck is Booker T going into the Hall of Fame?  I mean, I knew he would eventually but this is entirely too early.

Scouring through some more of 2006 after watching the Rumble:

*#1 Contender's Match
*Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton (_No Way Out_)

Remember when Randy Orton actually had personality and charisma? Yeah, I miss those days too. Really enjoyable match here. Orton exudes the cocky prick character, I'd imagine it's his real life persona at the time. The match is really made in 3 major spots for me. 1. Rey's reversal of the electric chair into the sunset flip powerbomb from the second rope. 2. Randy's awesome dropkick while Rey's in mid-air. 3. Rey's dropkick reversal of the RKO attempt, which lead to the finish. I can't help but mark every time I see Orton get a big time victory in a sneaky way. **** 1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That No Way Out match is dope. 

Check out their Smackdown Match POST Wrestlemania that's located on the 'History of the WHC' DVD, as some people find it better than the NWO match (most actually, I'm undecided). As a matter of fact, it would be best for everybody to check out that DVD in general as we get a SCOTT STEINER match, a good one vs Ric Flair actually. 

Ugh I love Steiner, seems as if whenever WWE puts a Steiner match on a comp it's usually AWESOME.

EDIT: On a side note, I'm starting to get excited for the Wrestlemania card. For some reason, Punk-Taker is failing to appeal to me from a storyline sense, but apart from that and the horrendous main event which will have it's upsides, I'm DYING to see BROCK-GAME, Shield-Fuckfaces, Ryback-Henry, and well.... Every single match on the card besides the two world championship matches, mainly because I don't care for Dull Rio or The Roid.

Workrate wise, if given enough time.... This could be an all time great Mania... Significant Ziggler-Bryan interactions with a Ziggler cash in PLZ. Seriously, he could become a STAR at Mania, especially if he walks away with the Tag AND World Championship. Ziggler holding the big gold belt would do wonders for it in my eyes.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Watched the Punk/Taker segment on the WWE website, and I'm left wondering what the fuck I just watched. Undertaker just sits in the ring and says "I want my urn back"... and that's it? Granted it didn't have the entire segment but online came as anything but awe inspiring. Also didn't feel like Punk offered much either, kept thinking about how they've now taken Heyman away from him and how I was looking forward to this match the most, thinking how it might headline, and now just feeling like it will be 15 minutes of crap. 

I love Wrestlemania, but I gotta say, this is the worst build-up I've ever seen. Maybe there's a show or two you could argue, but God, Rock isn't even there to build "THE REMATCH!" as he holds the strap which is a joke. As a HUGE Rock fan I'm ready for him to just go away and never come back. We were better off without him since he came back. His promos have taken a gigantic step back and this still seems like a very secondary project for him. He is not the same Rock from 1999. 

Then you have Lesnar/HHH, which I like, but I really want to see Lesnar to go over here, but everyone on this forum doesn't see it, and with the new stipulation of HHHs career (which I am not a fan of, at first blush)it seems like a lock HHH goes over. This will be the 3rd "Retirement" match, so to speak, in the past 6 years, and I have this funny feeling HHH is going to be wrestling, if only periodically, until he's 50. I thought they could have done better, kind of assumed it was no holds barred because OF COURSE it's the Undertaker at Mania. Hell in a Cell would have been perfect had it not been yet another case of Deja Vu. 

I guess right now I'm oksy with HHH/Lesnar, totally disinterested in Rock/Cena, and disappointed with Punk/Taker.

Hoping Swagger goes over too...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

El Cuñado said:


> So the WM undercard is shaping up like:
> 
> Swagger/ADR
> Shield/Super Friends Take-2
> ...


when was this hinted?

Tag Team Championship match is both cool, to me considering it gets 3 guys I love on the show + the championships a nice rub, but also UGH thanks to Big E. Langston already having himself a match at WrestleMania. Oh boy. Lets hope he hardly does much of anything in the match outside of hitting a power move or two and letting Dolph do the bulk of the work. I guess WWE had to put my current least favorite on the entire roster on the card. Just b/c 8*D

Jericho vs Fandango = yes please. Always liked Curtis and this gimmick is kind of my favorite part about watching WWE every week now. Certainly steals Smackdown. Not hard, but he gets the job done.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

barrett/miz? :lol

spring stampede 1999 was awesome :mark: 

:ddp !!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Raven & Saturn vs Benoit & Malenko IMO :mark:

main event stunk but who cares b/c :ddp WINS THE CHAMPIONSHIP


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

was fucking awesome tag match. 

ddp winning was a markout moment :ddp im marking out bro


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tony Schiavone was marking out too. Everyone was.

So lets make DDP go heel following this. :ddp 

Oh that WCW. _(even though Page was STILL awesome)_


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

No more GAME.



I wondered who would be the man to retire Trips and I guess Brock makes the most sense given the current climate. It can't be HBK, it can't be Taker so who else? Cena maybe? They wouldn't give it to Orton considering how far he's fallen. Punk? Obviously not. So Brock then. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. I think he still has another few years left in him but if his recent interviews have been anything to go by, he's very ready to hang them up and take the office job full time. It fucking sucks that of all the Wrestlemania's it just had to be the one I don't attend though. Brilliant lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Should've been Punk to end HHH's career... in fact I know it's been stated like a billion times, but it can't be said enough... if Brock and Punk had the other's opponent, this Mania would've looked a lot better. Though going for the streak match is great for Punk and if he looks good even in defeat, it will benefit him, a win over a top star/mega star like HHH would've been better for him, especially as a heel with HHH's career on the line. And then Taker/Lesnar could've just ruled shit with Heyman doing most of the build up/promotion and then the two of them producing a fucking brilliant fight with Taker's streak in more kayfabe jeopardy than it's ever been.

Though I guess I understand with Brock's extension, they may not want him to lose so early but if HHH does end up beating Lesnar, it'd be stupid they didn't go for Taker/Lesnar.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since Brock/Taker didn't happen, I'm now of the belief that Taker couldn't work with Lesnar because that match is money and there's no way they don't do it for any reason other than Taker might get murdered in the ring. It's unfortunate but it is what it is. If Lesnar's the man to retire Trips I can live with that. I'm just annoyed that I won't be there to see his last match .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

In terms of match quality, which do you think will be better Brock/Taker or Cena/Taker at WM30.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently watching slamboree 1999. opener looks sick


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think the biggest question coming out of tonight's RAW is why the fuck is Booker T going into the Hall of Fame?  I mean, I knew he would eventually but this is entirely too early.


For his WCW stint mainly. Think it's on the borderline of deserving, but I've always liked Booker so that may swing it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> currently watching slamboree 1999. opener looks sick


It is. Damn near makes the rest of the show forgettable...b/c it pretty much is. If only there wasn't Charles Robinson vs Gorgeous George on it too. _(doing Seabs work here pimping it.)_


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> when was this hinted?


I was just going on dirtsheet rumours for that one since the card is so thin. 

It's not a terrible card but I just can't fathom this is what they wanted to create for Wrestlemania. Everything is so shoddily built and thrown together. I can't help but laugh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Plenty of Mania's have been built in crummy fashion. Especially during the "height" of the wrestling biz. The build for the undercard isn't anything to turn me off. It's the main events that lack for me. Two big rematches I couldn't care to see again. Meh. I'm only lucky Undertaker vs Punk is happening to garner some form of interest here on the upper card.

It's also a touch frustrating Antonio Cesaro will no doubt be left off the card despite not missing a PPV since August. _(well Pre-Show)_ He's rolled with the US championship for a very long time now and there will be no pay off? Terrible.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That would've made more sense of course but then we wouldn't have gotten Edge/Foley and HOW DARE YOU try to put anything in place over Cena/HBK at Mania 23!  Seriously though, I don't remember how Cena/HHH even came about to be honest.


I think he won a no. 1 contender tournament. Final ended up as triple threat with RVD/HHH/Big Show (the latter two coming off their Jan feud with Show's broken hand) after one of the semis ended in no contest or something. I remember really wanting RVD to win :


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Raw:

ADR/Cody: ***
Triple Threat: ***1/4
Everything else (apart from a few segments): ISTHISTHEGODDAMNROADTOWRESTLEMANIA?! rating.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ADR vs Cody was terribly drab. Boring crowd with yet another BORING booking decision for Del Rio. WWE turned him face, k. Good move. Now lets continue to book the guy the same exact way. Ugh. If he wasn't being pushed at the heart of it, I bet he'd hate being so uninteresting thanks to the company.

Triple Threat offered up some solid nearfalls. Was pulling for Jericho, but I suppose Wade will have a decent reign after all. No gripes from me.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Plenty of Mania's have been built in crummy fashion. Especially during the "height" of the wrestling biz. The build for the undercard isn't anything to turn me off. It's the main events that lack for me. Two big rematches I couldn't care to see again. Meh. I'm only lucky Undertaker vs Punk is happening to garner some form of interest here on the upper card.
> 
> It's also a touch frustrating Antonio Cesaro will no doubt be left off the card despite not missing a PPV since August. _(well Pre-Show)_ He's rolled with the US championship for a very long time now and there will be no pay off? Terrible.


I can see Cesaro facing off against Sin Cara on the Mania pre-show.

I think this year the pre-show is extended to an hour, so there'll be time for the US title match and a tag with Tensai/Brodus vs Rhodes Scholars as well as all the hype videos and interviews that they usually do before each PPV.

That leaves the card as something like this:

The Rock vs John Cena
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar
Undertaker vs CM Punk
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus & Big Show
Ryback vs Mark Henry
Hell No vs Ziggler & Langston
Chris Jericho vs Fandango

Pre-show:
Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara
Wade Barrett vs The Miz
Rhodes Scholars & The Bellas vs Brodus Clay, Tensai & The Funkadactyls


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wouldn't deem that as a payoff for his career right now. Let alone if he does job to the mediocre talent. That plan is moot until we see if they're booked with one another again this week. Totally see your reasoning in thinking it can happen though. Mysterio out & WWE is interested in using Sin Cara for Mania in some capacity. This is probably his ticket in. 

Only lucky point is Cesaro works well with junior heavyweights so fingers crossed if a match goes down on either the pre-show or main show, the carry job will be sparkling.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Since Brock/Taker didn't happen, I'm now of the belief that Taker couldn't work with Lesnar because that match is money and there's no way they don't do it for any reason other than Taker might get murdered in the ring. It's unfortunate but it is what it is. If Lesnar's the man to retire Trips I can live with that. I'm just annoyed that I won't be there to see his last match .


True, thats what I'm thinking aswell, though maybe they're saving Taker/Brock for 31 so Brock doesn't have to lose before then.

I still think Punk should be in Brock's spot, because something like ending HHH's career Punk needs right now. And even if Taker/Lesnar couldn't face each other, and even though Id prefer nothing over Taker/Punk or Taker/Cena in that case, for the sake of Punk, I would've been happy enough to see something like Taker/Sheamus (despite the fact the build would be terrible) and Lesnar/Ryback (with Taker and Lesnar winning of course  ) if it meant Punk getting the accomplishment of being the one to finally put HHH down.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Wouldn't deem that as a payoff for his career right now. Let alone if he does job to the mediocre talent. That plan is moot until we see if they're booked with one another again this week. Totally see your reasoning in thinking it can happen though. Mysterio out & WWE is interested in using Sin Cara for Mania in some capacity. This is probably his ticket in.
> 
> Only lucky point is Cesaro works well with junior heavyweights so fingers crossed if a match goes down on either the pre-show or main show, the carry job will be sparkling.


They had a good match on Main Event a few weeks back, which leads me think that has opened the door for a Mania title match for Cara.

It was definately one of Sin Cara's best since he debuted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of Sin Cara's best, sure. 

I'll have to compromise with my personal opinions here: Cesaro to work vs Sin Cara or Cesaro to not work period at WM. That's what I'm looking at. Honestly, idk which one I'd rather see.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

More excited for the two non-title main event matches than the titles matches at this year's mania. Would love Punk/Taker to be a casket match or buried alive. Unlikely though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doesn't need a gimmick. Probably will be better without either one of those gimmicks added.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

- Liked the Punk/Taker segment, Taker's demeanor makes sense as Punk's gone to far and pissed him off. 
This is the only match i'd put money down to see.
- While Rock/ Cena will be a quality match i have no interest in the build or the end results.
- Zero interest in anything involving Lesnar/HHH, i cant believe some here think that Lesnar's gonna win.

Who knows maybe this'll be a last minute purchase.

There's 7 matches offically made, add one more and that's it.
There are some wrestlers (Cesaro, PTP, Cara) i want on the card that id rather give the bigger matches more time, then stretch the card and have matches going under 5 mins.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Exactly what happened last I watched wrestling even the women's matches went longer than 5 minutes


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the only way Brock-Taker's going to happen is if it's next year and Taker would come back for XXXI against Cena, that match HAS to end his career. Also, if we get Brock-Taker it more than likely means Rock-Cena III next year... Oh Jesus.

Is anybody else enjoying their build alot better now that The Rock isn't there? Thank God we only have two more weeks with him and the belt .

Been hearing a ton of rumblings about how Taker-HHH should have been the swan song, and while that would have been a fitting end (especially to The Game's career), I'm glad he came back for a pair of personal DREAM matches against BROCK. There's your show stealer right there, as not everybody is 100 percent sure that Brock is winning to due "LOLGAMEZWINBACK".


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Missed Raw other than the contract signing. Heyman was awesome. :lmao

Anything worth watching?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena-Rock video package AGAIN.

JK LOLZ 8*D.

Jericho was pretty funny backstage with Fandango and Punk-Taker was good for the time it lasted... Very short segments.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Missed Raw other than the contract signing. Heyman was awesome. :lmao
> 
> Anything worth watching?


Jericho/Miz/Barrett triple threat match is worth a watch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anything Jericho does is worth watching, and it's a shame that people label him as a "jobber who needs to go away" as Jericho should be the prototype for how a former big name is used in the current product, same with Mick Foley. Gee, who would have thought that perhaps the two most articulate men in the wrestling industry would be the ones to make the biggest attempts to give something back. It's a shame that Triple H is retiring before he could really go and put alot of guys over, same with the rest of the part timers really, they're just coming back, attracting buys, and leaving the business with nothing. I have a ton of respect for Jericho for not only putting guys over and taking every single promo that WWE wants for him, but the quality of his run has been excellent and he's perhaps the best thing the WWE has at the moment. The Punk match, the Bryan match, The Rumble match where he was the shining star, The chamber match, the Shield tag, and all of the great segment's he's been involved in, everything the guy touches is pure gold and it's a shame that his win/loss record gets in the way for alot of people, making them blind to such a fantastic run.

People are going to say that they're "wasting" Jericho on Fandango, but honestly that match actually appeals to me for the fact that even though Jericho does indeed lose alot, how will it play out? Fandango is literally impossible to like from kayfabe standards (meaning he does he job excellent) and seems to be playing the gimmick excellently, and pairing him with Jericho especially at Mania is a brilliant decision to get a guy over. That's how you do it ; you take a currently established star and you have him lose to a current guy... It's WRESTLING, some guys just need to check their egos at the door and realize that their needs to be a future.

My current wrestler of the year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> That No Way Out match is dope.
> 
> Check out their Smackdown Match POST Wrestlemania that's located on the 'History of the WHC' DVD, as some people find it better than the NWO match (most actually, I'm undecided). As a matter of fact, it would be best for everybody to check out that DVD in general as we get a SCOTT STEINER match, a good one vs Ric Flair actually.
> 
> Ugh I love Steiner, seems as if whenever WWE puts a Steiner match on a comp it's usually AWESOME.


Will be getting that later in the week. (Y)

Besides anything involving the NWO right? 

Where's your DUNGEON COLLECTION REVIEW!?



Arnold Tricky said:


> For his WCW stint mainly. Think it's on the borderline of deserving, but I've always liked Booker so that may swing it.


Eh, not to take anything away from Booker but those 5 WCW Title reigns were when WCW was complete shit. I knew he'd be in the hall but I was thinking in the next few years. Backlun & Booker T in the same night is just a little odd if you ask me.



haribo said:


> I think he won a no. 1 contender tournament. Final ended up as triple threat with RVD/HHH/Big Show (the latter two coming off their Jan feud with Show's broken hand) after one of the semis ended in no contest or something. I remember really wanting RVD to win :


Well there ya go.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was writing it last night but I just hit MAJOR writer's block as the review is probably going to be quite lengthy at 1000+ words. I finished watching it the other night and I've been trying to write a review ever since but I'm finding it to be damn near impossible to talk about every single match because it takes a million years to write, even if it's just a little blurb!

I'm lazy as fuck essentially :lol.

IT'S COMING THOUGH. SOON. PROMISE.

SPOILER : I GAVE IT 4/10. NOT EVEN IN MY TOP 1000 DVDS.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That was the worst RAW in 2013 so far. This year has definitely been the worst Road to WM build that I have seen though. 

Can't wait for the ROCK to return next week though. :rock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My live RAW notes:

What the fuck is this? Is this the opening segment to Raw just weeks before WM, involving one half of the main event? WHO THE FUCK IS WRITING THIS SHIT?

So Cena beat Darren Young... guess he's ready for The Rock now!!! :side:

FEED ME MORE? How about FEED ME SOMETHING ELSE.

Ryback Vs Henry made official for WM. So Show gonna be added to the 6 man now I guess. I'm cool with that. Was sick of Ryback and The Shield. Not that happy with Henry Vs Ryback, but I guess they could have done worse with Henry (Khali...).

Why is Lawler's music playing for the contract signing graphic? :lmao

Oh joy fandango finally wrestling i am overjoyed this should be amazing and exciting and tremendous and shit. oh yey instead of him finally wrestling they wasted about a year with his entrance, khalis entrance, mic work, and then he fucks off before he wrestles. thanks wwe. so kayfabe wise how is he getting away with being under contract but never actually having a match when he's booked in one?

:mark: Undertaker promo :mark:. Getting straight to shit too. I like that.

:lmao at Punk mocking Paul Bearer. Yeah the guy is dead, but this was his CHARACTER so anyone getting upset needs to shut the fuck up and stop being a bitch .

Oh shit, Punk said OH SHIT. Awesome.

Don't like these Undertaker segments just randomly ending though. Are we not allowed to see him leave the ring? We can see him walk to the ring, but fuck, BIG MYSTERY HOW HE GETS BACK, right? Lol.

AJ :mark:. So definitely looks like Dolph and Big E are facing the tag champs at WM. Gives them something to do I guess. Dolph Vs Bryan at WM, tag or not is something I'm happy with. So the match will probably get about 4 minutes and be shit...

Oh god no. Please don't give us Jericho Vs Fandango because Fandango has a dance gimmick and Jericho was on Dancing with the Stars...

Booker T going in the hall of fame? Well that's it. HOF just lost all credibility. 

Well Show is gonna be in the 6 man against the Shield no doubt. Not that anyone did doubt. Even when they announced Ryback we all knew it wasn't really gonna happen that way.

Oh look, Team Hell No Vs Ziggler & Big E for the tag titles. Zig E and Big E.

HHH looks stupid with short hair. Just saying.

:lmao the HHH/Heyman fight looked like a scene from Oz. Thought HHH was gonna rape his fat ass on the table :lmao.

So the big stipulation for their WM match is... no holds barred. How... imaginative. But there's more right? Right? Oh thank god there is. HHH's career is on the line. Oh no. How... terrible for HHH. The guy that's been pretty much retired outside of a couple of matches for the last 3 years... .

-------------------------------

WrestleMania 9 review in my BLOG~! and well... what a shitty event it is!!!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I was writing it last night but I just hit MAJOR writer's block as the review is probably going to be quite lengthy at 1000+ words. I finished watching it the other night and I've been trying to write a review ever since but I'm finding it to be damn near impossible to talk about every single match because it takes a million years to write, even if it's just a little blurb!
> 
> I'm lazy as fuck essentially :lol.
> 
> ...


Gotta write the reviews for the match as you go, at least that's what I do.

I CAN'T EVEN THINK OF 1000 DVDS! Shit must be bad...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know for certain that the NWO DVD is the worst 3 Disc set ever. One good match and one great match, the rest of the DVD is just a HORRENDOUS MESS (just like the NWO). I'll give it one thing though ; it's extremely linear.

I've tried watching Royal Rumble 2013 THREE TIMES and I'm still stuck on the opening portion of the Rumble Match. The first two matches were SO DULL, holy fuck.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

It's sad how desperate WWE is for this Punk/Taker storyline


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think Triple H/BROCK has potential to steal the show. Lesnar SHOULD win, but if the match doesn't go on last (as it should if it's indeed Hunter's final match), then I guess we'll know the outcome.

edit yeah, couldn't care less about Taker/Punk tbh. Only match I'm remotely interested in out of the big 3 is HHH/Lesnar.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

That's what needs to happen. Someone needs to make a DVD review thread and let him post up all the DVDs and the links to his reviews so we don't get jobbed into something we don't wanna see


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH, The Rumble is getting special treatment.

It's going to be "KingOfKings Presents : Fuck This Show".

I'm not even joking :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H "retiring" & Rock losing the WWE Championship might make this my favorite WrestleMania ever.

Taker vs Punk being good & Big E. Langston getting injured thus not being able to compete would only put it over the top.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Didn't watch Raw last night but happy with the stips for HHH/Brock. Lesnar in a no holds barred environment has so much :mark: potential. It's the only match on the card I _really_ care about.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rawk said:


> True, thats what I'm thinking aswell, though maybe they're saving Taker/Brock for 31 so Brock doesn't have to lose before then.
> 
> I still think Punk should be in Brock's spot, because something like ending HHH's career Punk needs right now. And even if Taker/Lesnar couldn't face each other, and even though Id prefer nothing over Taker/Punk or Taker/Cena in that case, for the sake of Punk, I would've been happy enough to see something like Taker/Sheamus (despite the fact the build would be terrible) and Lesnar/Ryback (with Taker and Lesnar winning of course  ) if it meant Punk getting the accomplishment of being the one to finally put HHH down.


I reckon Trips retires at 29, Taker retires with a win at 30 against Cena and probably Rock retires at 31. If they were going to do Taker/Brock they would have done it this year. I don't see it ever happening now. If Taker is too banged up to work the match now then he'll be even worse off 2 years down the line, you know. It's unfortunate but the card is what it is. We're all just trying to make the most of it at this stage and find something we can look forward to. Funny how for the most part it isn't the actual stroylines drawing us in but the performers themselves purely based on the fact that we mark for them. What a sad state of affairs. The main event scene is a total mindfuck. Is it any bit of wonder the midcard is non-existent. 



The Lady Killer said:


> I think Triple H/BROCK has potential to steal the show. Lesnar SHOULD win, but if the match doesn't go on last (as it should if it's indeed Hunter's final match), then I guess we'll know the outcome.
> 
> edit yeah, couldn't care less about Taker/Punk tbh. Only match I'm remotely interested in out of the big 3 is HHH/Lesnar.


I don't think it will go on last and I don't think Trips is winning either. I originally thought it would be the first of the big matches to come on but now I think it will be the middle of the three with Rock/Cena still main eventing.

The reactions of the crowd to these matches is going to be interesting as hell though. I have no idea how the hell they're going to react to any of them. I just hope we don't get a bunch of dickheads trying to put themselves over and crapping over Trips retirement if it does indeed happen. Like him or not, nobody deserves that and I'd truly hate to see that happen.

EDIT - Anybody think we're going to see DAT BLOOD in the NODQ match then? So far Trips has busted open both Brock and Heyman. He even raped Heyman too. This shit gonna get dirtay.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton might be involved, but I'm totally down for Shield's WrestleMania match. Henry vs Ryback too. Addition of those has certainly helped in giving me something to anticipate come the day of Mania.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, I'm looking forward to The Shield's match by default because it's The Shield. Big Show opposite them could be awesome as hell. 

Ryback/Henry is fine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM:

Rock/Cena - zero interest. And I do mean absolutely zero.

HHH/Lesnar - half and half. I like what they did a SS a whole lot, I'm just unsure about a rematch between the two. I felt the same about HHH/Undertaker last year though, and that turned out awesome for me.

Punk/Undertaker - its the fucking UNDERTAKER at WM. Against Punk. Yeah, storyline and build up is... mostly shitty and non existent, but its the fucking UNDERTAKER at WM. I'm looking forward to it naturally.

SHIELD/Orton, Show & Sheamus - 5 outta 6 in a 6 man match ain't too bad haha. Shield have done no wrong thus far, and I don't see it starting at WM. Multi-man match will help keep Orton from sucking too much (hopefully... unless they make him the FIP... even though Sheamus could do it better). Hell even if Orton is the main FIP I still don't see this being anywhere near bad. Could end up being a strong contender for MOTN based on their previous matches.

Team Hell No/Zig E and Big E - Bryan and Ziggler in a match together at WM. Kane is fine too. Just the Big E factor that could bring it down. Expecting him to just kinda come in and slam Bryan (being the FIP) while Ziggler works the holds (huh... this match is falling apart before it even happens...). I'm guessing it won't get much time anyway. Could be a fun sprint. Not even close to what I'd have these guys doing at WM.

Henry/Ryback - Henry is a fucking beast. Ryback is... uhhh... not the worst choice I guess. I'm interested because its Henry. Shame Ryback is gonna win though.

That everything officially announced?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Given how poorly they've handled just about everything else, it still amazes me how well they've handled The Shield. I mean wow. I only hope they shock everybody again and let them go over...again. Would be awesome and what a Wrestlemania debut for Ambrose, Rollins and Reigns. Whoever is booking these guys deserves an extra box of fruity pebbles.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> WM:
> 
> Rock/Cena - zero interest. And I do mean absolutely zero.
> 
> ...


Del Rio/Swagger

Hopefully the tag championship match gets enough time to at least be a fun little sprint with some Bryan/Ziggler sequences. I'll be happy with 8 mins or so. It strikes me as the type of match that gets 4 mins or some shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Del Rio/Swagger


The fact I forgot about the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP match at WRESTLEMANIA pretty much shows how much I care about it :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I always forget about Swagger vs Del Rio too :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's face it ; The SHIELD match is a bigger match than the World Heavyweight Championship match. 

The star power is bigger, the workers are better, it's the biggest "SMACKDOWN" match there is honestly.

SHIELD is winning too. Big Show barely winning at Mania + Jobber Orton + The fact that they went over CENA during what is HIS YEAR = BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD.

Meaning we probably get an Extreme Rules rematch the next month which will probably be a MOTY contender. FUCK, EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH IS AMAZING.

The best thing going in the WWE today.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, fuck that match. I don't mind the Swagger/Colter/WE THE PEOPLE stuff but no interest in the match and don't think it will be very good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How would you rank the 3 Shield matches so far?

Imo:
1 - vs Rybell-No (DUH)
2 - vs Justice League
3 - vs Sheriback


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the only person excited for Swagger/ADR is WAGG.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> How would you rank the 3 Shield matches so far?
> 
> Imo:
> 1 - vs Rybell-No (DUH)
> ...


Same order. The two this year are in my top three of 2013 behind Cena/Punk.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No need to place a useless dub on it. Brand specifics are squashed. Besides, it's being built well on both shows. Negates the process or continuing with that mindset right there. 

Then there is Swagger vs Del Rio which has underwhelming booking on both shows. Felt like it'll get its exposure on Smackdown, when it reality, it hasn't. Zeb has cut a promo, there's been a debate, a brawl & Ricardo getting owned. That's about it. Enjoy the workers in the mix, but sheesh. It's like it doesn't even FEEL as if they're going for the World Championship. If this World Championship doesn't open the show, well, I'll have myself a slight chuckle. Edge vs Del Rio & Danielson vs Sheamus were built much better and got slated as the opening act.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Depends. If the tag match opens or goes before the WHC match, I'll be pretty confident that DOLPH finally cashes in.... Hopefully.

SAVE_US_DOLPH.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Del Rio/Swagger should indeed be the opener, unless Ziggler's cashing in.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They really need to do something with the "brands" after WM. With Booker going into the HOF, maybe they should work that into a story or something where he decides to fully retire, so there goes the end of SD's GM. From there, either merge both brands together, or announce a new SD GM (please not Teddy... please not Teddy... please not Teddy), announce a permanent Raw GM (please not Vickie... please not Vickie... please not Vickie) and then do a full draft again.

But in the real world of WWE sod all will change.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

If Trips lost, will the crowd give him the Steam treatment? Naa naa na na.. Or is it going to be a tearjerker like Flair and HBK?



Starbuck said:


> EDIT - Anybody think we're going to see DAT BLOOD in the NODQ match then? So far Trips has busted open both Brock and Heyman. He even raped Heyman too. This shit gonna get dirtay.


I'm hoping Steph comes to the ring when her man is getting beaten off down and Heyman forces himself on her at ringside and rips off her blouse. Maybe they're saving for that WrestleMania XXX. Brought to you by Brazzers. _"The world's best porn site"_ - Jerry Lawler




Big Z said:


> The fact I forgot about the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP match at WRESTLEMANIA pretty much shows how much I care about it :lmao.


Especially since it includes KING SWAGGIE :wilkins


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

STEPH/SABLE RIPPING EACH OTHER'S CLOTHES OFF IN A RINGSIDE BRAWL WHILE HHH AND BROCK TEAR SHIT UP~!


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I think Triple H/BROCK has potential to steal the show. Lesnar SHOULD win, but if the match doesn't go on last (as it should if it's indeed Hunter's final match), then I guess we'll know the outcome.
> 
> edit yeah, couldn't care less about Taker/Punk tbh. Only match I'm remotely interested in out of the big 3 is HHH/Lesnar.


I think Rock/Cena should go on last the WWE Championship match should always be last.

Clearly they don't feel that though :argh:


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

There's no need for the SHIELD to lose to this team of goobers. If they didn't lost to a team with Cena and Ryback there is no need at Mania. Give these guys dat rub.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Sad thing is ADR/Del Rio has had the only real build up too


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best thing for the superstars is to make the brands actually split again. Especially for SD's sake. It bumps everything's importance up when each show isn't crowded with the main eventers. At first it might sound lame but that's the only way they can build characters.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> I think Rock/Cena should go on last the WWE Championship match should always be last.
> 
> Clearly they don't feel that though :argh:


Yeah, when HBK faced Taker at 26, he went on last because they knew it was the end for him. I'd expect HHH to get similar treatment, but with Rock/Cena for the belt also on the card, it's hard to say.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm willing to bet that HHH-BROCK gets the Flair-HBK treatment instead of the HBK-Taker treatment. First half main event for sure, probably going to go 30 minutes too. Between promos, entrances, and the matches themselves, The "BIG THREE" main events will probably make up a good 2 hours and 15 minutes of the show's total time, with two hours being the minimum. 

Rock/Cena's getting 45-50 minutes of total entrances, packages, aftermath, and the match itself.

BROCK/GAME will be the longest segment of the night at around 50-55 minutes.

Punk/Taker won't be as long as The Undertaker's previous Mania match-ups. 30-35 minute long segment probably.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I personally won't be doing any booing or cheering/clapping if HHH ends up losing, but I can't say I wouldn't find it funny if people do completely trash him on his way out with the good-bye song. Granted whether that happens or not, he'll probably have a Raw built around his retirement speech, probably one of the first two after Mania where he'll get a traditional retirement reaction. 

As far as WM match thoughts go for the full card so far:

Rock/Cena - I'm sorta digging where they're going with Cena's desperation, but then again I'm always interested when they're heading in a direction that looks like a Cena heel turn, and yet I'm always disappointed when after that short detour is over Cena's back to his old self. However I'll milk it for all it's worth in the meantime and try to enjoy the feud.

Punk/Undertaker - Only one of the big 3 I'm fully interested in. Expecting it or The Shield match to be MOTN. Feud has been built well (although not as well as it could've been) with the whole urn thing. They should really have Punk in the next two weeks discuss the urn and the power it gives to Taker when within his possession to make a real point about why he stole the urn as opposed to "lol i got it cuz ur manager died!" But yeah, Taker's promo was short but sweet and did as good of a job as it could've of building Mania, but Punk's was just funny. Didn't do anything for the build though besides make Taker mad.

HHH/Lesnar - I really did try with this one... initially I like many others thought it shouldn't happen at Mania. It's happening. The brawl was kinda cool and Lesnar got busted up good, but I still had no interest, with that brawl and a very "meh" promo from HHH in the first two weeks. Heyman's promo last week got me slightly interested and with some high hopes. We got No Holds Barred like I thought, which gets me somewhat interested in the match depending on how far they them go, but the second stip does nothing for me. HHH, if he loses, will only be slightly more retired than he is now. Rather than have 2-4 matches a year, he'd have one this year and still resume his role as COO regardless. So yeah, it doesn't interest me for the build up or the aftermatch. Would've much rather had Heyman become COO/somehow get Vince involved to give Heyman control of the company if HHH loses. THAT would've interested me a lot... at least until Mania when Lesnar loses and the stip is rendered useless, but I would've enjoyed the possibility for the next two weeks at least. Oh well, this feud has been terrible, build is uninteresting, and all I can hope is that we see bloody, brutal brawl. If it is HHH's last match, this is the only shot I could see Vince giving them some lee-way in that, so my hopes are fairly high for that.

SHIELD/Orton, Show & Sheamus - Shield is three for three in great matches, so I expect this one to be no different. This is the only match I could see challenging Taker/Punk if that match lives up to my expectations for MOTN. Hoping for Orton double-crossing Sheamus leading to Sheamus finally taking a pinfall this year, and starting an interesting feud between em. 

Team Hell No/Zig E and Big E - Meh, will be interesting to see what Big E can do, though can't say I'm keeping my expectations high. Bryan/Ziggler interactions should be good, but like I said... meh...

Henry/Ryback - I like the big-match feel vibe that comes when these two step in the ring. Mainly due to their size and build, but it'll be great to see two goliaths going at it. The match writes itself as well, and while I'm not necessarily expecting much quality wise, I'm looking forward to seeing them have a proper match anyway. 

Other matches that look to definitely be happening:

Jericho/Fandango- Gah, why waste Jericho like this? Are they gonna dance-wrestle across the ring? This has clusterfuck written all over it. Who knows though, maybe they'll shock me. Not looking forward to it at all.

Barrett/Miz- If this happens, why? I mean, the promos should be good if they focus on the IC Title and not on their movies they did, but the match is going to suck. Both are average in the ring at best. Really wish they'd use Jericho instead of Miz to put over Barrett and the IC Title as Barrett/Jericho would probably be a good match if their Raw match in 2010 is indication of anything. But alas, Barrett/Miz is going to suck, and worst of all if it happens, it's almost certain Miz is winning the title. Ugh.



One other match I can see happening is NAO/Rhode Scholars, which would be fun to see. Maybe we get another Sandow/Rhodes NAO-style introduction which would be awesome to listen to there live.


As far as times for each of the big three, I think KOK hit the nail on the head.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love the idea of Ryback-Henry.

Henry's one of the best in-ring storytellers nowadays and should manage to tell a decent story against the ridiculously mediocre Ryback. Keep it short and hard hitting and you've got a great match on your hands. Ryback has been involved with some REALLY good stuff as of late and things are looking good for him in the future ; a win over Henry would do wonders for him (although I'd love it if he lost TBH).


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I made a thread last night regarding 6 man tag at Wrestlemania, but it got merged into another thread. Here is what I said, care to agree or disagree?

Shield vs. Sheamus/Orton/Show will be match of the night at Wrestlemania 29. You heard it here first. 

The Shield have had a number of matches in the WWE and not a single one of them have been bad. They have all ranged from good to borderline classic. There are a few reasons why I think this match will be match of the night at Wrestlemania 29.

*1. Randy Orton > Cena, Big Show > Ryback, Kane* - Love him or hate him, you have to admit that Big Show is one of the best big man wrestlers of all time. He is just really good at putting on a show (no pun intended) and is a true attraction unlike most of the WWE roster. He looks like he's in the best shape of his life and has put on a number of great matches over the past year. It is also worth noting that he excels in multi-man matches. 

Randy Orton is decent worker himself. He's no Daniel Bryan or Chris Jericho, but he can take bumps and is good at selling. This match looks like a perfect opportunity for Orton to prove to the higher ups in the WWE that he still has what it takes.

Sheamus is one of the most consistent wrestlers on the roster. He hasn't had a bad match in a very long time and already has some chemistry with The Shield and in recent weeks, Randy Orton. 

2. *It's Fresh* - "Rematchamania" is a perfect name for this year's card with two of the three main events happening within the last year. Rock/Cena was a decent match last year but only because of the atmosphere. It's possible that they go all out this year, but unless Cena turns heel this match will always be seen as "meh".

HHH/Lesnar fought at Summerslam last year and the majority think that the match was well below expectations. I'm not expecting much from this match because it's the same stipulation as the last one (No Holds Barred) except with Hunter's career on the line. I can't imagine this one being too different from their last encounter, maybe a few more weapons will be used, but that's it. And besides, what good is more weapons if there is no blood? And if there is any blood, it'll be accidental which will then lead to trainers interfering the pacing of the match to stop the blood. *yawn*

Lastly, you have Taker/Punk. In recent years Taker has shown that he takes things up a notch when he is competing at Wrestlemania. But it should be noted that in the past two Wrestlemanias, Taker has been involved in gimmick matches (No Holds Barred and Hell in a Cell). Those types of matches don't require a fast pace, but his match with Punk is a straight up 1 on 1. Taker hasn't really much at all the past couple of years and his injuries have prevented him from working out. I can see him getting gassed pretty fast leading to a mediocre match, but he will be there against CM Punk who is a great wrestler so I don't know, it's up in there. 

3. *The Shield = Next Big Stars* - It's safe to say that the future is looking bright for Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, and Roman Reigns. As I said earlier, The Shield have yet to have a bad match in the WWE; they are extremely consistent. They have wins over guys like Ryback, Sheamus, Bryan, Kane, Jericho, and Cena who are all top guys in WWE. They have been booked as an unstoppable force and I don't see it ending at Wrestlemania. I think they'll want to really solidify Shield as the next big thing at Wrestlemania so perhaps this match will be changed to a Falls Count Anywhere match where they could shine even more.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I hope NYC doesn't shit on Trips. I'd hate them forever if they do that . Even if I wasn't the biggest fan of somebody I'd never wish them to have their retirement shat all over by a bunch of idiots trying to get themselves over. That would suck. Boo him? Fine, sure, boo away. Na na na chants can GTFO though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

If Trips does lose, I can't see him getting 'na na na' chants. However people feel about him, he still gets a ton of respect and that'll be the same at 'Mania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This has to be the most boring Road to Wrestlemania ever. As much as I shit on 2012, at least the RTWM last year was exciting even with them botching the ROCK/Cena build-up with all that Dwayne nonsense. I actually looked forward to the shows every week last year. This year... nah, I missed Raw last night even though I was awake for the first hour, read the spoilers and still have no plans to watch the thing other than maybe Orton's segment(s) and the contract signing. I NEED ME SOME ROCK QUICKLY!

Only three matches I'm interested in are:

ROCK/Cena (The possibility of Cena turning heel will always be there even if it wont happen and that's enough to excite me. Plus ROCK in the ring always feels BIG!)
Shield/Orton-Sheamus-Show (100% down to ORTON, though)
HHH/Lesnar (mostly for the match as I don't care for the build-up enough)

Ryback/Henry also sounds interesting but everything else? Yawn.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Unless WWE chooses to fuck it up, everything Alim said in the previous post is 100 percent correct and I recommend everybody to take a look at it. Well, besides Orton > Cena, that's 800 percent false especially at this point.

The WWE has created new guys through their BOOKING supplementing their talent for once, the first new stars I've really been invested myself in in a very long time. I'm assuming The Shield wins and there's a chance that Orton turns heel, but if this gets 15-20 minutes like it SHOULD (it definitely won't), it'll be the MOTN for sure.

Just watched the 2013 Rumble Match, better than I originally thought for sure. Superior to 2012 by a pretty big margin if you ask me. Not enough to save this show at all, but God Damn it exceeded my expectations on a rewatch more than I could have ever dreamed of.

WHO KNOWS, MAYBE ROID-PUNK WILL HOLD UP BETTER ON A REWATCH. I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC.

unk3

EDIT : Punk-Rock should have main-evented Wrestlemania XXIX now that I think about it. JUST HAVE ROCK COME IN AT NUMBER 30 AND HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE FACE PUNK AT THE ROYAL RUMBLE.

FUCK. THIS. COMPANY.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

NY fans might be into Lesnar, but I think they're smart enough to show HHH proper respect if he loses.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Only stuff I'm really interested in right now is Punk/Taker and Shield's match. The HHH/Lesnar match seems questionable but might be good. Henry/Ryback won't get the time it deserves. Tag titles won't get the time they deserve. lolmaineventforthetitlethatisn'tevenonraw will be lol. Miz/Barrett might kill people. Indifferent on Jericho/Fandango if it happens. And I'm mildly interested in Swagger/Del Rio.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think BROCK gets the pop of the night honestly.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> EDIT : Punk-Rock should have main-evented Wrestlemania XXIX now that I think about it. JUST HAVE ROCK COME IN AT NUMBER 30 AND HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE FACE PUNK AT THE ROYAL RUMBLE.
> 
> FUCK. THIS. COMPANY.


Thank God it didn't. Cena's redemption is a million times better than that shit (however stale it may be) and besides, how would ROCK's title reign work?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know you hate Punk more then anything on this planet and pray for his failure, but honestly the only reason Rock-Cena II will be so sweet is for that look on Cena's face when the match is over and the reality seeps in that we're headed for 2005-2011 all over again.

Say what you want about 2012, but when it comes to the WWE Championship picture it was something fresh and new compared to the 6-7 years before it.

Whatever, I'm going to sit back and listen to the bitching while I'm enjoying Cena's reign on top of HIS kingdom ; the WWE.

Because when Wrestlemania season begins to fade and everything comes back to normal, we have TWO GUYS on top of the mountain ; Cena & Punk.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My premature Mania rundown:

Taker/Punk - It's Taker @ Mania, so it's already a winning scenario. However, despite Punk's greatness, I just don't see it living up to the last 4 Taker Mania matches. The outcome to this one is even more obvious than the previous vs HBK and vs HHH encounters. If HBK and HHH can't beat Taker, I don't see how Punk can (kayfabe-wise).

Swagger/Del Rio - LOL

Jericho/Fandango - Is this really happening? Fuck.

Rock/Cena - Can't say I care much. Painfully obvious that Cena is winning the title. Rock has been MIA and Cena is as annoying as ever. Awful build. Could be a decent match.

Hell No/Ziggler & THIGHS - All for a Ziggler/Bryan Mania encounter, but like others have said I fear this will include some comedy and not get that much time. Hopefully I'm proven wrong.

Henry/Ryback - Could be good if given some time as Henry OWNS, but like most of the matches on the card the winner (Ryback) is fairly predictable. It's a shame, too, because Henry just returned. I just can't see them making Ryback lose ANOTHER big match.

IC title - IDGAF

US title - Is that even happening? Probs the pre-show. Cesaro, plz. 

Lesnar/HHH - Could be MOTN. Lesnar should win. HHH should get proper respect. If it is indeed Hunter's last match, I hope they pull out all the stops. It's gonna be brutal as all Lesnar matches are, but I hope they take it one step further. :brock

Shield/Jobbers - Shield are batting a thousand, and I expect no different from this. Could be a show-stealer. Orton heel turn to set up Orton/Sheamus. Hoping nobody else joins The Shield, though. Not needed.

Overall, card looks on the 'meh' side, but I'm hoping the matches at least deliver.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, 2005-2011 were all far better years than 2012, so I'm all for it. And I certainly wont bitch about Cena's reign as I've seen the lowest the title scene can possibly go for an entire year (not so much as I skipped over half of the year but for damn good reason) and the direction they're headed can only go UP from this point on.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> My premature Mania rundown:
> 
> Taker/*Cena* - It's Taker @ Mania, so it's already a winning scenario. However, despite Punk's greatness, I just don't see it living up to the last 4 Taker Mania matches. The outcome to this one is even more obvious than the previous vs HBK and vs HHH encounters. If HBK and HHH can't beat Taker, I don't see how Punk can (kayfabe-wise).
> 
> ...


OH GAWD. CENA TO WIN THE WWE TITLE AND CASH IN THE CENA IN THE BANK CONTRACT ON THE STREAK.

:cena3


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL oops. Wouldn't be surprised if that happened, tbh. 

FORESHADOWING OF MANIA 30


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> OH GAWD. CENA TO WIN THE WWE TITLE AND CASH IN THE CENA IN THE BANK CONTRACT ON THE STREAK.
> 
> :cena3


Cena In The Bank might be the answer to why did he got a WWE Title match against Rey that night (match was awesome, though) :cena


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm with C2D. Cena over Punk anyday. Even though I don't like Cena winning the title against the ROCK, I have accepted this long before Royal Rumble. So when this does happen, I won't be upset because it's very, very likely to happen so it's not anything shocking. It's better than Punk defeating ROCK and going on to headline WM. So yeah, this current storyline is better than any storyline that involved Punk beating ROCK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally finished watching Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio from Hell in a Cell and wow, it was a pretty good match and one of Orton's best from last year. Del Rio mocking Orton's RKO set-up made me chuckle. Although I have no idea where they miscommunicated on that top rope botch as Del Rio went up and landed with no aim at all. I guess the plan was for Orton to counter him with a Dropkick but he was late as seen when he was thinking about going for it but Del Rio had to run the ropes to make it look good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton-Del Rio from Hell in a Cell is good. *** 1/2* on my last watch I do believe, very solidly worked but lacked inspiration I felt.

EDIT : This time I don't even think it's Orton's fault, I think most of it is my inability to become immersed in any of Alberto Del Rio's matches. Seriously, the guy has had some good matches I suppose but I can't bring myself to give a single fuck about either of them. Just another example of technically sound and solidly worked but featuring little to no substance at all, representing essentially everything I hate in a worker.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Why were top rope moves banned/illegal in early WCW?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Because Bill Watts wanted more TRADITIONAL WRASSLIN'.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Why were top rope moves banned/illegal in early WCW?


Bill Watts liked the "old school" appeal of wrestling or something like that. He outlawed it.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'll take a guess and say that flying around the ring was too foreign and flashy for the old school guys, right?


This isn't a smart ass comment, just to be clear.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Jericho/Fandango - Is this really happening? Fuck.


Literally so excited for this. And everyone will assume I'm joking


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone know of any PPV DVDs that have a really good bonus match? Like a TV match or something from the past.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I keep going back and forth on how I feel about Mania. One week I'm excited about HHH/Lesnar, the next I'm not. I'm just hoping come WM weekend I'll be a little hyped up. Not buying, but I'll gladly stream it. :side:

Edit: I wanna say some of the '07 shows had good bonuses but nothing is really ringing a bell.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm over the Road to WM. The build has sucked, the card isn't exciting, but at the end of the day it's still the biggest show of the year so I'm hoping for some great matches and big moments. If HHH/Lesnar and Taker/Punk deliver then I'm sure I'll enjoy it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Unforgiven 2005 & Vengeance 2005 have some great big name tags, especially Unforgiven. 

As a matter of fact, The Vengeance 2005 DVD is probably the best they've ever done for a non Wrestlemania PPV besides probably ONS 2006. You get a whole bunch of DVD exclusives including a great moment between Batista and Triple H after their match, and the Cena/HBK/Hogan tag. 

Got it on my birthday 8 years ago, same day I got my first girlfriend (Vengeance 2005 was still the highlight of my day), and the same day I watched Scarface for the first time. BUY IT.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Punk/Taker - really looking forward to this one.

Rock/Cena - beyond being a really good match i don't care about it now and won't after.
I simply don't care about the results of this match and not in a "OMGCenawon?F***thiscompany" way.

HHH/Lesnar - don't care

ADR/Swaager - lol really don't care, If it wasn't for RAW Supershow i wouldn't know what was happening on SD.
SD sucks and will continue to suck when Dolph cashes in.

Shield/WWE - while the tlc match was awesome their other two matches were ok, should be ok.
Orton hell turn ? Go back to early 2009 and he'll have my interest, right now he's the most boring guy on the roster.

Tag title match - should be ok, would rather have Ziggler as tag champ then world champ.

Ryback/Henry - looking forward to this, should be good.

Fandango/Jericho - if he indeed does compete at WM the "wrestlerswillgetpushediftheyworkhard" crowd can finally STFU.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Could you imagine the heat from the NYC crowd if FAN - DAN - GO beats Jericho? :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Unforgiven 2005 & Vengeance 2005 have some great big name tags, especially Unforgiven.
> 
> As a matter of fact, The Vengeance 2005 DVD is probably the best they've ever done for a non Wrestlemania PPV besides probably ONS 2006. You get a whole bunch of DVD exclusives including a great moment between Batista and Triple H after their match, and the Cena/HBK/Hogan tag.
> 
> Got it on my birthday 8 years ago, same day I got my first girlfriend (Vengeance 2005 was still the highlight of my day), and the same day I watched Scarface for the first time. BUY IT.


Sounds like a hell of a day! Have both of those shows. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching CM Punk vs The Roid now.

What the hell am I watching? This isn't CM Punk vs The Roid, this is essentially CM Punk vs CM Punk. You ever hear that old saying about how somebody is so good in the ring that he could wrestle a broomstick and make it good? 

Yeah, this is worse than that.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The Jericho and FANDANGOAT feud could actually be based on Jericho's dancing with the stars past.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It looks like Punk and Rock PLANNED a really good match out, but due to Rock's in ring limitations they couldn't execute some of the things they wanted to do properly, which really shows in this match as it progresses on and on. It's like they had the right IDEA with the transitions and counters (Sharpshooter into the Vice being a prime example of this), but they're just executed at such a bad pace that it's impossible to be invested in it. 

I mean, there's a spot where Rock attempts The Rock Bottom and Punk counters into a GTS attempt and it's honestly one of the most poorly executed big spots I've ever seen, as it takes them about twenty three hours to set up and finish this spot. I'm still watching it, and my mind is blown by how Punk is essentially wrestling HIMSELF here. Watch the match again if you haven't (actually, don't), and look at the diversity of Punk's offense throughout the match. 

He fucking KNOWS what he's dealing with here.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Flyin' Brian Pillman vs Jushin "Thunder" Liger WCW Light Heavyweight Championship SuperBrawl 2 (1992) *****

Fantastic match between two great competitors, along with a great crowd and commentary.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Did we ever had a HBK/Punk match? I searched on Google but found nothing© only that is a dream match


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Did we ever had a HBK/Punk match? I searched on Google but found nothing© only that is a dream match


Unfortunately not. Would've been great stuff.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I mean, there's a spot where Rock attempts The Rock Bottom and Punk counters into a GTS attempt and it's honestly one of the most poorly executed big spots I've ever seen, as it takes them about twenty three hours to set up and finish this spot. I'm still watching it, and my mind is blown by how Punk is essentially wrestling HIMSELF here. Watch the match again if you haven't (actually, don't), and look at the diversity of Punk's offense throughout the match.
> 
> He fucking KNOWS what he's dealing with here.


 Hmm, it's not that bad. Punk attacks the ROCK's ribs because that was the body part he was working on for the whole match so good psychology from Punk there and then we get that cool counter to the Sharpshooter from the Rock. 

I felt the RR match was much better than the second match. The second match just had a better ending.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Did we ever had a HBK/Punk match? I searched on Google but found nothing© only that is a dream match


Unfortunately not. Would've been amazing though. Should have already happened in '09 or '10 when Punk had the Straight Edge Society gimmick. Missed opportunity. 

Michaels working with the likes of Bryan, Ziggler, Lesnar and Rock would've brought pleasure to my eyes too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What STARZ would everyone have the Jericho/Miz/Barrett triple threat match from last night at? I'd give it a *****, solid outing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/HBK in a student/teacher feud could've been GOAT-worthy.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What STARZ would everyone have the Jericho/Miz/Barrett triple threat match from last night at? I'd give it a *****, solid outing.


**3/4. The beginning was quite bad


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What STARZ would everyone have the Jericho/Miz/Barrett triple threat match from last night at? I'd give it a *****, solid outing.



Same here ***


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> **3/4. The beginning was quite bad


Yeah, before the break was poor. Improved after returning though.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What STARZ would everyone have the Jericho/Miz/Barrett triple threat match from last night at? I'd give it a *****, solid outing.


Didn't watch Raw last night. Recorded it on my DVR as usual. Will give that match a watch later, although I'm not expecting much.



The Lady Killer said:


> Bryan/HBK in a student/teacher feud could've been GOAT-worthy.


Oh heavens yes, yes, yes! Story practically writes itself.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Triple threat was **3/4, but again I find it hard to rate TV matches these days what with all the ads ruining the momentum.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Royal Rumble 2013


Word Heavyweight Championship - Alberto Del Rio(c) vs The Big Show (Last Man Standing) : ** 1/4*

Tag Team Championship - Team Hell No(c) vs Team Rhodes Scholars : ** 1/2*

2013 Royal Rumble Match - *****

WWE Championship - CM Punk(c) vs The Rock : *1/4 **


The World Heavyweight Championship match is perhaps the worst Last Man Standing match I've ever seen in my entire life by far. I don't give a single fuck about Del Rio so naturally his FIP performances bore the living shit out of me. This match is essentially a few big spots and that's it, as Big Show tries but fails miserably to salvage this match from the get go. Retardo is annoying as fuck on the outside of the ring and does nothing for me, as per usual, while Del Rio continues to bring me to new levels of boredom with his dull in ring work. LOLLIGHTUBES, Big Show thinking he's in CZW or something. Watch if you want a cure for insomnia of course, bad match with a few decent spots thrown in.

The Tag team match is essentially a RAW tag match thrown in to eat up PPV time. Some of the work is decent in this one but again, this is so cookie cutter that I can't bring myself to care in the slightest about what either of these teams do. Bryan is the FIP until Kane saves the day and Team Hell No gets the win. Standard stuff, and really bad by Bryan's standards at this point. He needs to be out of the tag team scene and in the WHC title hunt immediately where he'll be given a chance to shine Hopefully. We've all seen this match a million times, skip it.

The Rumble match held up surprisingly well on a rewatch, mainly due to the latter half as I really didn't like the first half of this bar Jericho-Ziggler. The meat and potatoes of this match is the final 6 guys in Jericho, Ziggler, Cena, Sheamus, Ryback, and Orton, as each of the big 6 gets their time to shine and make their mark here on a big time stage. The Goldust and Godfather returns did nothing for me, however the Jericho return was a really special moment that bumps up the match's rating a little bit for me. The order of the guys in this match was really fucked up though, I mean Sin Cara, Miz, and Ryback being the final three participants? Are you fucking kidding me? ... Thought the MVP of this one was clearly split between Ziggler/Jericho, as they went out there and had a ton of great faux eliminations and moments that really stood out. I didn't care at all for the big Kofi spot as it wasn't really that impressive at all (he could have just used one foot to push the chair over), and alot of the things seemed really contrived. Cena winning is obviously effecting alot of people due to the fact that we're getting Rock-Cena II and nobody wants to see that, but truth be told, Cena looked really good here and definitely deserved the win. Solid Rumble match, great last 15 minutes or so, and holds up better than 2012 for sure (which was mediocre).

However, a GOOD Rumble match will never make up for the atrocious main event of this one. Go back and watch the match and you'll say a few things to yourself : Why are they moving so slow? Why has Punk been on offense for 99 percent of the match? Why does the Rock look so tired, he hasn't even done anything? That had to be the worst counter I've ever seen? What story are they exactly going for here? What the hell is up with Rock's selling?.... Times these questions by a million and you'll have this match in a nutshell. Willing to bet that Pat Patterson sat down and mapped this match out as it looked like it had potential, but the execution is some of the poorest I've ever seen in a big time main event. There's a 10 minute portion of the match that's literally Punk hitting one signature move after another while Rock looks like he's about to have a heart attack, how can anybody consider this to be a good match if you put the booking to the side? Punk hits his moves, shit happens, there are no good near falls in sight, they botch the one big spot of the match, the ending stretch is one of the worst I've ever seen... It's just a BAD, BAD match, and the worst CM Punk match that I have ever seen in my life which is a shame because you could tell how bad he really wanted this to be good. The worst main event to a PPV since Taker-Kane HIAC 2010, and the second worst PPV main event since God knows when. I mean, The Rock winning the title is a feel good moment I guess for alot of people, but that doesn't mean this match is even remotely close to being average by any means. It's saved from DUD status due to Punk's effort in all honesty, just a bad, bad match.

There you have it, one of the worst PPV's of the PG era right here. I'm a little higher on the Rumble match then most people of course but with all booking aside, that doesn't save this show. There are only four matches with three of them being horrendous and one of them being a good match in The Rumble, how could this show be possibly recommended to anybody? The first two matches are the blandest and dullest openings I've seen to any PPV in a really long time, while the main event is so ridiculously bad for a CM Punk match in 2013 that you need to see it to believe it. This is the same fucker who had a great match with fucking RYBACK of all people a few weeks before this of course, so you know this was fucked up, big time.

If you're a big fan of The Rumble match in general you should download that match (I mean a BIG fan too, as it's still in the bottom half of the Rumbles as far as I'm concerned), but if not I really urge you to stay the fuck away from this PPV as it's not HILARIOULY bad, but rather a dull, lifeless show that you should never watch ever, let alone twice like I have. 

One of the worst big shows from start to finish that I have ever seen. 

*CAL SCALE SCORE : 3 *

*PERSONAL RATING : 1.5/10*​


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I enjoyed both of ADR/Show LMS matches. I have the RR one at ***


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Bryan/HBK in a student/teacher feud could've been GOAT-worthy.


This. I don't want HBK to come back, despite being a fan. He went out 100% the right way and he shouldn't come back to this company the way it is set-up right now. But if he did come back, Daniel Bryan would be the #1 opponent I'd want to see him wrestle.

EDIT- Would love to see him wrestle Seth Rollins, as well.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The thing with Triple H having to "retire" if he loses is throwing me for a loop. On one hand, he can go out respectfully like Flair and HBK did and stick to the storyline under all circumstances. He can still run the show and be the new Vince character. However, it wouldn't exactly be sacreligious if he did wrestle again down the road. How many times has Jericho been forced to "retire?" I guess it all depends on how it's handled the following night on Raw. If he's given a big send-off then I'm assuming it's the real deal. If he just disappears for a bit then I can see him wrestling again. It's not exactly the same situation as HBK/Taker where HBK has the utmost respect for Taker and vows not to go back on his word. I highly doubt HHH gives much of a fuck about keeping his word to BROCK, and I doubt BROCK really gives a shit, either.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lol HHH is winning.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

If HHH does win, who will he feud with next? And Lesnar will have lost more matches than he has won...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm shocked that there's a human being on this planet who doesn't think Rock/Punk is atrocious.

Is there anybody who isn't a mark of either guy who feels this way? Why do I highly doubt that?

Probably the most disappointing match ever for me, which is crazy considering that The Rock was in it so I should have had no hope, but like I said before ; Punk showed he was capable of carrying somebody when he had the great TLC match against Ryback just 20 days prior so I was confident that he could have did something with Rock... Little did I know the condition Rock was in at the time, just one big let down for me, thought the reign that epitomized great wrestling was going to go out in a blaze of glory instead of whatever the fuck that was.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Triple H gains nothing with a win. He knows the business well enough to realize this. Makes no sense for Brock to lose considering he just renegotiated a new contract.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Lesnar is definitely going over. Lady Killer said it best. 



KingOfKings said:


> I'm shocked that there's a human being on this planet who doesn't think Rock/Punk is atrocious.
> 
> Is there anybody who isn't a mark of either guy who feels this way? Why do I highly doubt that?


It is atrocious. No other way to put it.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm shocked that there's a human being on this planet who doesn't think Rock/Punk is atrocious.
> 
> Is there anybody who isn't a mark of either guy who feels this way? Why do I highly doubt that?
> 
> Probably the most disappointing match ever for me, which is crazy considering that The Rock was in it so I should have had no hope, but like I said before ; Punk showed he was capable of carrying somebody when he had the great TLC match against Ryback just 20 days prior so I was confident that he could have did something with Rock... Little did I know the condition Rock was in at the time, just one big let down for me, thought the reign that epitomized great wrestling was going to go out in a blaze of glory instead of whatever the fuck that was.


DAVE MELTZER gave it ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WOW DAVE :lol :lol :lol.

WOW.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

A half a star away from his rating of Brock Lensar V Cena ER.

His star ratings are like facts yo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> DAVE MELTZER gave it ****


:bosh


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> A half a star away from his rating of Brock Lensar V Cena ER.
> 
> His star ratings are like facts yo.


That match is overrated anyways. It was basically a 20 minute squash.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Alim said:


> That match is overrated anyways. It was basically a 20 minute squash.


I know I find it very overrated too.

But KingofKings thinks its *****, so just put it put their for the lol's


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.....

unk3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> DAVE MELTZER gave it ****


 That shocked me lol :lmao

Is there an article or video where he explains why the match was 4 stars?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It would have been ***** if Kurt Angle had to make a run in.

I can't believe we live on a planet where Punk-Rock is even close to being comparable to Lesnar-Cena by any human being. Like, I actually feel dirty reading that Brock/Cena is only half a star higher than Punk/Rock according to him. I would usually ask to see an explanation behind this, but I'd fear that if I heard the explanation that I would lose all faith in humanity and blow my brains out due to the sheer stupidity.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He gave the EC rematch ***1/2. I thought the rematch was better, personally.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I fucking dare ANYBODY to watch those matches back to back and try to tell me that the Extreme Rules match isn't better by at least *** with valid reasoning of course.

If you come back and say the opposite, you're truly a lost cause.

:cena3


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Sorry to sidestep the current conversation. :$

I've read on here that Luger "choked" at Wrestlemania 10. How so?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> It would have been ***** if Kurt Angle had to make a run in.
> 
> I can't believe we live on a planet where Punk-Rock is even close to being comparable to Lesnar-Cena by any human being. Like, I actually feel dirty reading that Brock/Cena is only half a star higher than Punk/Rock according to him. I would usually ask to see an explanation behind this, but I'd fear that if I heard the explanation that I would lose all faith in humanity and blow my brains out due to the sheer stupidity.


He said he liked because the crowd was hot, it was well worked, and the ending was exciting.

He took half a star away from Cena V Lesnar because he thought the ending was stupid and a ridiculous business move.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He was apparently supposed to win the title at Wrestlemania X, but got hammered a few nights before at a bar and told everybody, thus ruining his chances. That's the rumor anyways.

NOW... BACK TO THE REAL ISSUE.....

I'm still really pissed about that Punk/Rock vs Cena/BROCK thing. I know I shouldn't be because I realize that some people including Dave are really moronic sometimes, but to give Punk-Rock four stars is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a very, very long time. I mean to me that's like giving Orton-Barrett #59127 four stars, a complete abomination that should never happen. Angle-Henry from Royal Rumble 2006 is better than that piece of shit Rumble main event from this year, what the hell is wrong with some people. At least that one had a coherent story that they clearly wanted to tell FFS, Rock-Punk was just gross and disgusting in ever single aspect.

I'm going to the gym, and when I get back I'm going to address every single ridiculously wrong thing that Meltzer said, and why he is a MORON for saying it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> He was apparently supposed to win the title at Wrestlemania X, but got hammered a few nights before at a bar and told everybody, thus ruining his chances. That's the rumor anyways.
> 
> NOW... BACK TO THE REAL ISSUE.....
> 
> ...


It's really not that big of a deal.  Just take Dave 'The Great' Meltzer's word for it and move on.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> He took half a star away from Cena V Lesnar because he thought the ending was stupid and a ridiculous business move.


 (Y)

Even though the ending of Cena - Lesnar was stupid, it's much better than ROCK - Punk as an overall match. I don't think it (Royal Rumble) was a bad match by any means but no where near a great match lol. Although the ROCK - Punk match has recieved mixed reviews from the IWC. I was reading back the old thread to see what people thought of the first match and a lot of people thought it was a 3 stars or above match. Some think it's a 1 star/DUD match. I watched youtube reviews and online blog reviews and they all seem to have mixed feelings about the match.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Finally got to sit down and watch Elimination Chamber 2013 today, all in glorious Blu-ray HD quality. Wasn't sure what to expect from this one but looking at the card going into it, seemed to have some potential. So here are my thoughts

World Heavyweight Championship Match
Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio (C)

I found this opener to actually be pretty enjoyable, the crowd was lively and seemed really into it. Although it would be pretty sad if the opening match had a dead crowd. I have enjoyed seeing Del Rio open up his repertoire and pull off some lucha style moves since becoming a babyface. Especially enjoyed the hurricanrana on Show. Pretty impressive to see Del Rio defeat a guy as big as Show via submission, which is exactly what he did after like 3 enziguris and several attempts with the Cross Arm Breaker. 

***

U.S Championship Match
The Miz vs. Antonio Cesaro (C)

Who would really ever buy The Miz as the next Ric Flair? Every time the announcers try to talk about Miz's toughness and endurance I just can't buy into it. What should make me believe Miz is a tough guy? He has definitely improved from his days tagging with JoMo, but he still doesn't do much that I can get interested in. Anyway, this one seemed to end abruptly, right as it was starting to pick up some steam. The finish left me shaking my head, kind of like a "That's it?" feeling.

**

Elimination Chamber Number One Contenders Match
Y2J vs. D-Bry vs. Kane vs. RKO vs. Swagman vs. WSM

What a great chamber match this was. From the antics of Team Hell No in the middle of the match, to the destruction caused by Mark Henry, everything flowed very well. It was nice seeing how much it took to take Henry out of the match, after suffering that devastating double suplex on the steel, a Codebreaker and finally an RKO. The exchange at the end between Orton and Jericho was flawless as well. Wouldn't mind seeing one more match between the two down the road. Swagger kind of just lays in the grass towards the end before snaking his way to the surprise win. To be fair though, he made more sense than most of the other guys in the match considering who the champ is heading into Mania.

****

Six Man Tag Match
Cena, Ryback, Sheamus vs. The Shield

We have not gotten a poor outing from The Shield yet. Although a couple of steps down from the TLC match in December, this was still an action packed, hard hitting match. Seeing these three young rookies take 3 of the biggest names in WWE to their limit and defeating them is pretty crazy. The Shield look like they have been working together forever. The flying knee to the side of Cena's head from Rollins was nice. Reigns has a hell of a spear as well. Great job by all involved here.

***1/2

Impromptu Match
Dolph Ziggler w/AJ and Big E. vs. Kofi Kingston

Guess this was just thrown together to make sure we don't forget about Dolph and the briefcase. Poor guy, he deserves better than this. Don't think I've ever seen these two have a bad match together. Although criminally short for a PPV match, they packed as much as they could in here. Kofi flying around like a spider-monkey as usual. Good to see Dolph pick up the win on his own (kind of).

*3/4 (nothing wrong with it, just not enough time.)

Diva's Championship Match
Tamina vs. Kaitlyn (C)

To be honest, this was a decent match for the ladies as far as execution goes. Nothing sloppy or anything, but WWE doesn't want to devote any time to the division so why should we care. Kaitlyn with a spear to retain. That must be the move of the night.

*

WWE Championship Match
CM Punk w/Paul Heyman vs. The Rock (C)

Much like the Royal Rumble match between the two, not much to write home about here. Liked the counter of the springboard clothesline into the Rock Bottom, and nice to see Rock break out the Samoan Drop again. It seemed like an overbooked mess of a match we would get in the Attitude Era. 2 Ref bumps and Heyman gets knocked off the apron trying to help Punk cheat his way to victory. Another Rock Bottom seals Punk's fate (as well as ours, Rock/Cena 2 :argh. Dare I say it...typical Rock circa 2000 match.

**3/4

Overall, I'd say it is worth going out of your way to see the finer parts of this show. If you saw Rock/Punk from Rumble, no need to watch the main event of this one. Chamber and Super Friends/Shield are worth a DL, at the least.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SpookshowTony said:


> Why were top rope moves banned/illegal in early WCW?


Yeah, it was part of the whole "Old School Mid-South" thing Watts had going on. It also gave heels more ways to cheat; they'd come off of the top rope behind the ref's back and the match would pretty much end there. I kind of like it, it made the top rope moves seem actually really dangerous. Instead of being another move it'd actually change the momentum of a match (ditto with the 'throwing over the top rope' rule - which heels spammed the shiit out of). My favourite one is Rick Rude purposely getting DQ'ed for using a top rope knee drop in the iron man with Steamboat just so he got another guaranteed pinfall and had Steamboat where he wanted him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, it was part of the whole "Old School Mid-South" thing Watts had going on. It also gave heels more ways to cheat; they'd come off of the top rope behind the ref's back and the match would pretty much end there. I kind of like it, it made the top rope moves seem actually really dangerous. Instead of being another move it'd actually change the momentum of a match (ditto with the 'throwing over the top rope' rule - which heels spammed the shiit out of). My favourite one is Rick Rude purposely getting DQ'ed for using a top rope knee drop in the iron man with Steamboat just so he got another guaranteed pinfall and had Steamboat where he wanted him.


RICK RUDE


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Continuing my journey through 2006:

*WWE Championship - TLC Match
*Edge (c) vs. Ric Flair (_RAW 1/16_/_06_)

RIC FLAIR THE FUCKING GOAT. Seriously though, I love this match on so many levels and it's all because of that man. At age 56, he went out there and put on a performance that was nothing short of amazing. So many hellacious bumps and the absolutely ridiculous amount of blood loss. I loved all the sounds he made and little nuances throughout the match, such an entertaining dude. The final minutes are such a tease, you could tell Flair was in so much legit pain as he was trying to climb the ladder. Brilliant match. ******

Any other responses to my question about bonus matches on PPV dvds from earlier?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched Flair/Edge TLC the other day. It definitely held up to when I had watched it prior, which was live. The intangibles - such as Flair's selling and pained expressions, coupled with his family being ringside witnessing the brutality - are what really made that match. Edge came out of it looking great.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, it was part of the whole "Old School Mid-South" thing Watts had going on. It also gave heels more ways to cheat; they'd come off of the top rope behind the ref's back and the match would pretty much end there. I kind of like it, it made the top rope moves seem actually really dangerous. Instead of being another move it'd actually change the momentum of a match (ditto with the 'throwing over the top rope' rule - which heels spammed the shiit out of). My favourite one is Rick Rude purposely getting DQ'ed for using a top rope knee drop in the iron man with Steamboat just so he got another guaranteed pinfall and had Steamboat where he wanted him.



Hmm, in that perspective it's much more understandable. I do like my top rope moves though (they don't need to be fancy). Thanks.

And thanks to KingofKings for the response and for losing his shit.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Meltzer gave Punk/Rock ****? :kobe6

Even as someone who admittedly isn't the best at grading matches, that was difficult to sit through. I'll also admit that when Punk rolled Rock back into the ring and pinned him 1-2-3 after he got jumped, I marked out a little bit. Then we know how it ended: Punk goes down to one fucking elbow.

One thing I realized a while back while watching the 1997 Rumble. Austin was eliminated and came back into the ring, eliminate Bret and won the whole thing. All the while, Vince is SITTING AT FUCKING RINGSIDE, watching everything unfold and Bret's bitching at him and poking him while Vince just sits like a bitch at the commentary table. 

Fast forward 16 years, and the lights go out and no one (kayfabe) sees the Shield attack Rock, except Cole who went into bitch mode: "IT WAS THE SHIELD!! CHIODA, IT WAS THE SHIELD!!" Vince comes out and assumes it was the Shield and does something then.

I know, Vince was a different character during the different times, and WWE has no logic so it's not that big a deal, but still. Some fans remember.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

@Wrestling
Shhh, you're not a'sposta 'member!


Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon Ladder Match for IC Championship Wrestlemania X (1994) *****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Which Punk/Rock did Meltzer give **** to? :lmao Either way it's ridiculous but still. lolmeltzer, probably did good buys so he rated it high.

Edge/Flair TLC OWNS. Flair takes some bumps in that match that were insane. I enjoyed that Edge/Flair feud as a whole, even if it went short because Edge got the title.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Which Punk/Rock did Meltzer give **** to? :lmao Either way it's ridiculous but still. lolmeltzer, probably did good buys so he rated it high.
> 
> Edge/Flair TLC OWNS. Flair takes some bumps in that match that were insane. I enjoyed that Edge/Flair feud as a whole, even if it went short because Edge got the title.


Dave rated their match at the Rumble ****. Check a few pages back. 

I need to check that Edge/Flair TLC match. I've seen it a bit but need to look hard at it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge/Flair TLC was awesome. Flair's performance in that match, and the bumps he took for someone of his age was unbelievable. I'm not to familiar with top TV matches lists, but I imagine that was one of the best in 2006.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> He said he liked because the crowd was hot, it was well worked, and the ending was exciting.
> 
> He took half a star away from Cena V Lesnar because he thought the ending was stupid and a ridiculous business move.


Let's take a look at Meltzer's arguments for Rock-Punk being four stars, shall we?

1. *The crowd was hot :* Oh boy, do I loathe this reason. I've openly come out and said probably 8 billion times now in my reviews and in my random blurbs that the crowd shouldn't dictate how good a match is in the slightest. Let's face it here ; the WWE masses are somewhat retarded in their personal taste, meaning half the time if there's something great going on that they won't be able to appreciate it in the slightest, and won't be able to recognize when a match is bad and when a match isn't bad. This is the person who gave Hogan-Rock three stars when it had arguably one of the hottest crowds in wrestling history for it, so he's just being inconsistent with his ratings over time which again is kind of retarded. Crowd reaction shouldn't matter to the personal enjoyment of a match, I'm sorry.

2. *It was well worked :* No, no it really wasn't well worked. The structure was absolutely horrendous as like I said before, there's a 10 minute stretch where Punk is just hitting all of his signature stuff with Rock doing nothing at all besides being there, half of the time it just feels as if Punk is wrestling himself FFS. I don't even need to talk about the various transitions that happened at a snail's pace such as the Rock Bottom into the GTS and the sharpshooter countered into the vice... Those were some of the most poorly executed sequences I've seen in a while and to say that this match was well worked is a huge slap in the face to every match that was well worked in WWF/WWE history. Then you have shit like the announce table botch that REALLY makes the match look like absolute shit... This is probably the worst point of them all.

3. *The ending was exciting :* You mean the extremely anti climatic ending where there were no finisher kick outs or good near falls whatsoever? I take back what I said before, THIS is definitely the worst point I've ever seen in my life made about a match. Shield shenanigans leading to a match restart leading to a plain people's elbow finish? I don't know about you, but that certainly screams EXCITEMENT to me. I talk a ton of shit about Rock/Punk, but one thing they did indeed improve on in their next match was the finish ; THERE WERE ACTUALLY FUCKING NEAR FALLS. This just kinda ended out of nowhere, it was like "oh okay cool, people's elbow, Rock is champion....yay?".... He might as well have came out and said "This match is great because The Rock won the title, now I'm going to go ride his dick some more once I hope off of Kurts".


Rock-Punk at The Royal Rumble is one of the worst main event matches EVER.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to KingOfKings again"

You deserve so much for the post above. The DUDDEST OF ALL DUDS.

I'd take Cena/Rock AND Cena/Miz over Punk/Rock, anytime.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It might just be my love for Punk that's keeping me from deducting 1/4* and giving it a DUD rating. Perhaps I can't stomach the idea of Punk having a DUD on his amazing WWE resume.

I actually like Cena-Rock though, thought it was one of the best carry jobs I've ever seen, made me think alot higher of John Cena as a worker after that one believe it or not. If he can pull a two star match out of The Roid @ Mania I'll bow down to him and call him the best worker in the company at the moment for sure, as that feat would be one of the greatest feats by a worker in WWE history.

To think that I gave Rock-Punk @ the Rumble over one star on the first viewing. I should be fucking ashamed of myself.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/Miz>Punk/Rock matches? I mean come on, they weren't THAT bad. And one of the worst main events ever? Guess more power to me for liking it. unk5

Speaking of them, re-watched both Punk/Rock matches today (as well as Rock/Cena). Didn't like em as much as around the times they happened, but I still clearly think a lot more highly of them than most others:

RR- ***
EC- ***1/4

and Rock/Cena stands at ***1/2.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

It's funny, a month ago the general consensus on this forum was the Punk/Rock matches were better than the Rock/Cena match. But now some people have the opposite opinion. 

I can understand one thinking Rock/Cena was better, but cmon, Cena/Miz wasn't better than Punk/Rock.. Cena/Miz being one of the worst matches in WrestleMania history, and Punk/Rock just being a underwhelming match with a poor finish, but not one of the worst of all time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I actually enjoyed the first Punk/ROCK match. The lack of finisher-fest didn't bother me whatsoever.

On another note, finished watching the triple threat with Edge, Orton and Jericho as well as Jericho vs Mysterio from THE BASH. It's a shame how far Mysterio has fallen off in the past year. He's completely out of shape now and lost most of his agility plus gets injured every other day. Great match with a pretty cool swerve involving the double mask and that triple threat lived up to my expectations.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd put Punk/Roid and Miz/Cena on the same level honestly, they're both horrendous matches with little to no structure, it's just that Miz/Cena sticks out more as being horrendous because it was in the main event of Wrestlemania. 

@ *Rawk*, you should feel dirty for enjoying the Roid/Punk series. I can understand somebody really enjoying Rock/Cena as well as hating Rock/Cena as it's a very polarizing match, but Roid/Punk? That shit is just straight up BAD.

unk3


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Which match is a better viewing: Savage/Warrior at Wrestlemania 7 or SummerSlam '92?

I'll probably end up checking out Punk/Rock for the hell of it since it's the current topic here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania, although Summerslam is a HUGE favorite of mine and you can't go wrong with either.

STAY AWAY FROM ROID/PUNK. FOR FUCK SAKES. IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU, YOU WILL LISTEN.

Keep calm and root for Cena.

:cena3


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks and :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Which match is a better viewing: Savage/Warrior at Wrestlemania 7 or SummerSlam '92?
> 
> I'll probably end up checking out Punk/Rock for the hell of it since it's the current topic here.


Wrestlemania 7 by a mile. The Summerslam match is really overbooked and gets a little ridiculous imo, plus the finish is a huge letdown considering how long it went.

**** 1/4 vs. ** 3/4

EDIT: Oh and I didn't think Rock/Punk from Elimination Chamber was that bad at all. Fantastic performance from Punk, I just hated that Rock won.  *** 1/4 on first viewing.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks JE. After I'm done with Bret/Bulldog, it's Savage/Warrior rocketship madness time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I mean shit, it's only like 19 days now and the nightmare will be finally over and we can forget these last few months even happened and assume that Punk got hurt and vacated the title only for our lord and savior John "Wrestling God" Cena to find the title belt at Wrestlemania.

Actually, I like the idea of Cena beating The Roid down and getting his win back, so I'll stick to reality for now. That way when The Roid drops the belt at Wrestlemania we'll all know who the true G.O.A.T. is, and he's "The Franchise" John Cena.

Yeah that's right Shane Douglas. There is only ONE Franchise.

:cena2


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingofKings, how you react if ROCK retains at Mania? :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Like someone else said, I can't wait for Cena to win and bury the entire roster for the next year, probably longer and for people to complain that their favorite wrestler is once again getting buried. Guaranteed to happen. Not even a question. Can't wait for the lulz that is going to bring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> KingofKings, how you react if ROCK retains at Mania? :lol


It isn't happening.

If by some chance is DOES happen and WWE throws us a major swerve, I'll probably just say EH and wait three weeks for The Roid to drop the belt to somebody else and then start enjoying the title picture again, knowing that I won't ever have to see Dwayne Fucking Johnson holding the WWE Championship ever again in my life thank god.

If it does happen though, get ready for Roid-Cena III, because this isn't going to end until Cena is standing above The Rock's body with the title belt in hand screaming "THE CHAMP IS HERE" to a chorus of boos as Cena maintains his troll face.

:cena3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Holy motherfucker, THE ROCK has REALLY struck a nerve with somebody here. :rock4

And they say my Punk hate is over the top. :ti


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both Punker vs Rocky matches are horrendous. Certainly Rumble more so than EC. It's a lesser of two evils type mentality though.

And here I thought those matches were guaranteed to be stronger than Cena vs Rock. How wrong I was.

Have a bad taste in my mouth for contributing to this awful tripe discussion as it is. Who cares about The Rock. Lets talk about something interesting in the world of wrestling. umm, back to Brian Pillman discussions. Go.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Honestly, once Cena wins the title and Punk takes off... if Cena doesn't turn heel (which he won't), I don't know if I can go on. Depends on who Cena feuds with following Mania, but what options are there. If Rock is working ER, there's that (though I highly doubt they'd put Rock vs. Cena one on one at a PPV like ER), but then what? Who does Cena feud with from there? Going from a year-long Punk reign to Cena is like going from a prime rib for dinner to a pop-tart for dinner. And once Rock, Lesnar, Taker, Punk (if he's truly hurt and taking time off after Mania) and HHH (even if he doesn't lose, he'll still probably take time off after Mania) leave, who does Cena feud with? I'm assuming Orton/Sheamus will be busy feuding. Maybe Cena/Ryback? I would've thought they'd save that for a Summerslam or something. So what about for Payback and MITB? I'd mark if Sandow was thrown into the title mix and I think that would be enough to keep me tuned in. Cena/Bryan could be very likely, though Bryan needs to go back to the heel he was after he lost the World Title to Sheamus. I mean besides those options, nothing would interest me as far as a Cena title reign goes, and since nothing else on the card would be given a proper feud/time to develop, I don't think even my force of habit would be able to make me watch the show.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Punk/Rock from Elimination Chamber is SO much better than their match at the Royal Rumble the previous month.

By that, I mean by at least **1/2. Their Royal Rumble match is horrible.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> It isn't happening.
> 
> If by some chance is DOES happen and WWE throws us a major swerve, I'll probably just say EH and wait *three weeks* for The Roid to drop the belt to somebody else and then start enjoying the title picture again, knowing that I won't ever have to see Dwayne Fucking Johnson holding the WWE Championship ever again in my life thank god.
> 
> ...


Like Rock would show up in time for that. After Mania he'd probably defend it again at Summmerslam.

:side:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> It isn't happening.
> 
> If by some chance is DOES happen and WWE throws us a major swerve, I'll probably just say EH and wait three weeks for The Roid to drop the belt to somebody else and then start enjoying the title picture again, knowing that I won't ever have to see Dwayne Fucking Johnson holding the WWE Championship ever again in my life thank god.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, Cena winning is probably the best decision. I think it's wrong to have someone who was away for 7 years to come and beat the top face of the company and then leave. There was always going to be a rematch that would redeem Cena's loss. I would still mark out for ROCK's unlikely victory though :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Holy motherfucker, THE ROCK has REALLY struck a nerve with somebody here. :rock4
> 
> And they say my Punk hate is over the top. :ti


It is. Both you and KingofKings are nuts. Both Punk and Rock are awesome!

unk2
:rock

(Their matches might not have been, but their feud was at least)


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Cena/Henry at Extreme Rules please.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Let the skullfucking commence April 6th. :cena3



Edit: Fuck, it just hit me that this place will be unbearable after WM. :sadpanda


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

GOON The Legend said:


> Cena/Henry at Extreme Rules please.




Cena/Rock/Ryback vs the shield will be the main event of extreme rules. Calling it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

GOON The Legend said:


> Cena/Henry at Extreme Rules please.


Agreed.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd be all for Cena/Henry as well IF Henry doesn't lose to Ryback at Wrestlemania. Otherwise I really don't care. Henry's trash talking would be entertaining, but not enough to make me sit through the feud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOON is on to something.

Match would be radical. Given the potential stipulation environment too. Oh yes please.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena's eventual Title run after he beats Rock could be fucking GREAT if he faces the right people. Like these folks:

Antonio Cesaro (fat chance, but ya never know)
BROCK LESNAR (Summerslam WWE Title match???)
Christian (if he returned as a heel of course)
CM Punk (just have them wrestle at every ppv, I don't care. different stip for each match)
Daniel Bryan (I can dream right?)
Jack Swagger (I could see it)
MARK HENRY (YES YES YES)

But I'm sure they'll just give us Punk, Ryback, & Orton.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Henry will be losing at Mania, so I can't see him going from losing to Ryback to challenging the new WWE Champion John Cena at the very next PPV.

Realistically, I think it will be Rock/Cena III OR Rock/Cena vs The Shield at Extreme Rules.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> Punk/Rock from Elimination Chamber is SO much better than their match at the Royal Rumble the previous month.
> 
> By that, I mean by at least **1/2. Their Royal Rumble match is horrible.


It had a better finish thats about it. Both bouts are much of the same in a lot of ways.

Still think people are going way overboard as to how bad the two matches were but they still are not any thing special regardless. I didnt mind them though.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cena's eventual Title run after he beats Rock could be fucking GREAT if he faces the right people. Like these folks:
> 
> Antonio Cesaro (fat chance, but ya never know)
> BROCK LESNAR (Summerslam WWE Title match???)
> ...



Good picks but...WWE creative. That's asking too much to be spontaneus. Vince cockblocking ideas doesn't help either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Christian would be grand, but to be honest, it would reach its highest level if Christian were to remain a face. He's awesome a heel. Even stronger as a face.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cena's eventual Title run after he beats Rock could be fucking GREAT if he faces the right people. Like these folks:
> 
> Antonio Cesaro (fat chance, but ya never know)
> BROCK LESNAR (Summerslam WWE Title match???)
> ...


I sure hope so. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao @ Orton randomly receiving a shot. That tired program all over again. Only gives a reason for nobody to give a damn post WrestleMania.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd :mark: for a Cena/Christian program. With Christian being the heel obviously because Cena will never turn, and I always enjoyed Christian as a heel more anyway, much better from a character standpoint. 

Their brief feud in 2005 was great:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao @ Orton randomly receiving a shot. That tired program all over again. Only gives a reason for nobody to give a damn post WrestleMania.


Because they really give a damn otherwise, right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Cena's opponent was interesting, obviously by the last few posts in this thread, yeah they actually would give a damn. Sorry.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Orton/Cena would be the most predictable title match everytime because Orton ain't ever winning the world title again.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Orton/Cena would be the most predictable title match everytime because Orton ain't ever winning the *WWE* title again.


Corrected it for ya. (Y)

He'll probably win the World Title later this year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> If Cena's opponent was interesting, obviously by the last few posts in this thread, yeah they actually would give a damn. Sorry.


Yeah, about five people. I'm totally convinced.



Ever Wolf said:


> Orton/Cena would be the most predictable title match everytime because Orton ain't ever winning the world title again.


I envy your psychic skills.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Orton/Cena would be the most predictable title match everytime *because Orton ain't ever winning the world title again.*


You sure about that? I could EASILY see Orton win the World Title again. WWE never give up on the guy despite all his fuck ups and suspensions.

Hell, when Orton turns and starts a program with Sheamus he'll be pushed again and a World Title reign in his future isn't hard to see when the WHC doesn't mean much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Guys, WrestleMania's were released on individual dvds a few days ago. Anyone going to score some? Times like this makes me VERY happy I didn't get the anthology sets.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 corrected it for me.

They won't trust a man one strike away from being fired with the title that gains most recognition from the media and fans. It would look terrible for their public image.

World title yeah, probably. Got carried away


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Didn't Jeff Hardy win the WWE Title on two strikes though?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Guys, WrestleMania's were released on individual dvds a few days ago. Anyone going to score some? Times like this makes me VERY happy I didn't get the anthology sets.



Oh shit, they did. Something to look forward to.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> You sure about that? I could EASILY see Orton win the World Title again. WWE never give up on the guy despite all his fuck ups and suspensions.
> 
> Hell, when Orton turns and starts a program with Sheamus he'll be pushed again and a World Title reign in his future isn't hard to see when the WHC doesn't mean much.


Not to mention, who is going to hold the WWE Title during all these times? Are Punk and Cena going to trade it back and forth until doomsday? Will Sheamus and Ryback get in a reign or two in between? And who else will get a push on that level?

With the lack of star power, it sounds far fetched to say Orton will never become champion again just because of his suspensions. If it was 7-8 years ago, it could've made sense because they had a lot more stars they could give the title to instead of investing in somebody who's unreliable but that's not the case today. Maybe some perspectives have changed just because of Punk's 14 months reign but Orton winning the WWE Championship is very likely in the future. Specially if Cena or Punk ever find themselves away from action because of injuries or something else.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Didn't Jeff Hardy win the WWE Title on two strikes though?


& look where he is now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Oh shit, they did. Something to look forward to.


WrestleMania V, VII, VIII, & X imo. :mark:

omg 14 possibly unedited too? YES



Ever Wolf said:


> & look where he is now.


Makes zero sense. He chose to leave WWE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Whoever wins the title is irrelevant to me after Wrestlemania.

If Layla won the WWE Championship at Extreme Rules I'd say "atleast it isn't The Roid".

PS: Orton isn't touching the WWE title for at least another few years. They'll throw the big gold belt on him a few times before that probably within the next two years in feuds with.... I have no idea. He has a better chance of winning the title if he's a face though, because Ziggler's winning the title soon and they obviously won't do heel vs heel (Ziggler's staying heel for a while, sure of it).

I can't see anybody outside of Cena, Ryback, Punk, and MAYBE Sheamus holding the WWE Championship this year to be completely honest.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Makes zero sense. He chose to leave WWE.


I was just going to say that. 



Choke2Death said:


> Not to mention, who is going to hold the WWE Title during all these times? Are Punk and Cena going to trade it back and forth until doomsday? Will Sheamus and Ryback get in a reign or two in between? And who else will get a push on that level?
> 
> With the lack of star power, it sounds far fetched to say Orton will never become champion again just because of his suspensions. If it was 7-8 years ago, it could've made sense because they had a lot more stars they could give the title to instead of investing in somebody who's unreliable but that's not the case today. Maybe some perspectives have changed just because of Punk's 14 months reign but Orton winning the WWE Championship is very likely in the future. Specially if Cena or Punk ever find themselves away from action because of injuries or something else.


Valid points here. Tbh, I'm not fussed if Orton wins the title again because it's bound to happen. Same thing with Cena. I wish Orton returned to the classic Orton depicted in your sig though...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The shitty 2013 version of Orton doesn't deserve to hold a world championship. THEN AGAIN.... Look at who our current WWE Champion is, if Orton beat him for the belt I'd be all for it as long as it means The Roid going away :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Expectations for the World Champions went down the toilet so, so long ago.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Guys, WrestleMania's were released on individual dvds a few days ago. Anyone going to score some? Times like this makes me VERY happy I didn't get the anthology sets.


I can't find those motherfuckers in Wal-Mart at all!

It's a shame that seemingly every major reason I'd ever want any Manias from 1-15 have all been released elsewhere, so I won't be picking any up. Although I did strongly think about 7-9.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I was just going to say that.


(Y)

:jeff happening was a product of his own doing & not so much of any previous faults within WWE. Jeff could have found plenty of success if he stayed with WWE. More than positive of this.

While I am a Jeff Hardy fan, I can't help but LOVE that smiley though. Captures the infamous moment all with one glimpse. Guy was gone. All you need to do is see that face. Yeah, a match wasn't going to happen that night. Always look back and laugh in horror at the situation.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

They're up on Amazaon Jack Evans.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> They're up on Amazaon Jack Evans.


I know, they were just supposed to Walmart in store exclusive for $9.96 is why I say that. Supposed to be some big WWE DVD collections for the Road to Wrestlemania, but I've yet to see it around here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I seriously don't think Punk's going to hold the WWE title again until he wins it against Sheamus at Wrestlemania XXX (yeah, there's my prediction, the third biggest match on the card behind Brock-Rock and Taker-Cena). I mean, who the fuck else is going to win the Rumble next year? 

Predictions for the title pattern from XXIX to XXX? I'm thinking it goes a little like this:

Cena - Heel - Sheamus - Punk. No idea who the heel is going to be, Ryback perhaps if they'll turn him?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMG, Punk winning the Rumble. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Valid points here. Tbh, I'm not fussed if Orton wins the title again because it's bound to happen. Same thing with Cena. I wish Orton returned to the classic Orton depicted in your sig though...


Who doesn't? That Orton was just awesome. I wish I could understand how he could've changed SO MUCH in just a couple of years.



KingOfKings said:


> The shitty 2013 version of Orton doesn't deserve to hold a world championship. THEN AGAIN.... Look at who our current WWE Champion is, if Orton beat him for the belt I'd be all for it as long as it means The Roid going away :lol


Tbh, the 2013 Orton so far has been better than what we had in the second half of 2012 or during the never ending series with Wade Barrett. There he literally stuck to his 5 moves of doom and did nothing else. Ever since Elimination Chamber, I've felt that he's showed a bit more life. Not just in the ring but when he cuts a promo. Listening to him, he actually has more life in his voice compared to two years ago where he said one word every fifth second. Just hope he actually turns heel and some life is sparked into him. And he should also ditch this Viper shit while he's at it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I can't find those motherfuckers in Wal-Mart at all!
> 
> It's a shame that seemingly every major reason I'd ever want any Manias from 1-15 have all been released elsewhere, so I won't be picking any up. Although I did strongly think about 7-9.


Haven't checked, but I was planning on going the Amazon route myself. Need to stop by Wal-Mart tomorrow and check out if they're here. Hopefully it isn't the same snafu for me too.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I know, they were just supposed to Walmart in store exclusive for $9.96 is why I say that. Supposed to be some big WWE DVD collections for the Road to Wrestlemania, but I've yet to see it around here.


Ah, didn't know that. Give it a few days, sometimes the stores are bastards when dealing with new releases.


Bret "Hitman" Hart vs British Bulldog IC Championship SummerSlam (1992) *****
Heenan was priceless throughout.

Rocketship Madness time! (Warrior/Savage)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bret vs Smith from Summerslam is such a one man showcase. Davey wasn't bringing it that night. Luckily Bret was and carried him to a pretty great match. Their match from Season's Beatings is EXCELLENT however.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IYH V > Summerslam 1992 when it comes to Bret-Davey.

What an epic carry job that Summerslam 1992 match is though, holy shit. 

Best carry jobs ever?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> IYH V > Summerslam 1992 when it comes to Bret-Davey.
> 
> What an epic carry job that Summerslam 1992 match is though, holy shit.
> 
> Best carry jobs ever?


Punk vs. Rock. 

Nah really though, drawing a blank. Maybe Flair/Luger from Starrcade?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

William Regal vs Darren Young 10/21/10 is one that will forever leap out at me. Unreal how magical Regal makes the sub-5 minute match stand out to mean something.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll still cite Rock/Cena as being one of the best carry jobs of the modern era due to Cena's performance. 

When I think about the words "carry job" though, all I can think about is Chris Benoit carrying Orlando Jordan to a decent match @ GAB 2005. What the fuck Benoit .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Jordan is a solid mention. Seems to be Jordan's only match worth seeing.

Flair vs Luger is spot on. Luger wasn't bad at the time and I did feel he was capable of working a good match, but no doubt Flair made things great. He did even against opponents who were good. Flair vs Edge TLC would probably fall under the same boat too. Flair is what made that match really phenomenal to witness.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Hmm, guess I should check that IHY match out. Had to give it the full 5 ***** due to Bret (no disrespect to Davey Boy RIP). Bulldog looked like he was about to drop (Hutz) 15 minutes into it. Maybe less.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit also carried Viscera to a very good Beat the Clock match. His talent was magic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's an epic carry job, Tony. No doubt.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Benoit carried Kane to a great non-gimmick match at Bad Blood 04


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never looked at that match as much of a carry job. Thought Kane added his good big man elements to the match which provided to be a nice outlet for Benoit to work off of.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thoughts on Del Rio/Cody from Raw last night?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Never looked at that match as much of a carry job. Thought Kane added his good big man elements to the match which provided to be a nice outlet for Benoit to work off of.


Same here. Kane did a great job as the unbeatable monster that refuses to submit.

You want Benoit carrying a large opponent, look no further than the Big Vis match I've been pimping.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xksdvb_chris-benoit-vs-viscera-raw-12-27-2004_sport#.UUkdQLX3CKI


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Who doesn't? That Orton was just awesome. I wish I could understand how he could've changed SO MUCH in just a couple of years.


I just think everything about him was better then. His character being a big appeal factor, The Legend Killer was awesome. His promos were interesting, he showed plenty of personality and charisma back then. His matches were more enjoyable - not only because I more invested in them, but they were less predictable too. Orton's in-ring work may be more polished now, but he's much more formulaic these days and his matches are less interesting as a result.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Thoughts on Del Rio/Cody from Raw last night?


Dull. Felt it was going to end about 3 minutes in only to see it go about 10 was kind of dragging. Perhaps that was my own fault. Standard lackluster exhibition match on WWE TV.



Choke2Death said:


> Same here. Kane did a great job as the unbeatable monster that refuses to submit.
> 
> You want Benoit carrying a large opponent, look no further than the Big Vis match I've been pimping.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xksdvb_chris-benoit-vs-viscera-raw-12-27-2004_sport#.UUkdQLX3CKI


(Y)

Beat the Clock match by the sound of it. Favorited the match. I'll check it in a bit.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Zero fucks about Of the River/Rhodes. Had that shit on mute.

Watching Warrior/Savage WM 7. Four personalities are dead, three before their time. Very sad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rhodes moonsault was legit. That's about it.

Savage vs Warrior WrestleMania VII. :mark: STIRS UP THOSE EMOTIONS.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Oh shit! Warrior shoved Sherri! :lmao


Edit: Not getting my kicks over that. It caught me off guard.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know.

Just didn't have enough Warrior in a pimp hat for my liking :lol.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Macho King Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior Wrestlemania 7 Career Match (1991) ***1/2

The look on Macho's face when Warrior kicked out of the five elbow drops was great. I don't think Warrior threw enough punches and clotheslines. I might bump that up to four STARZ due to Elizabeth and Savage. Making me fight back tears and shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's a pretty fucking low rating compared to what I'm used to seeing for that match, which is ALWAYS in the four to five star range (what the lunatic Austin101 had it at anyways). Pretty sure that crazy motherfucker is also the only other guy besides me to have HHH-Jericho from Fully Loaded @ *****, which I'm going to re watch now because there's no way it holds up.

:jpl


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I don't know, I was enthralled by Savage's performance, but was frustrated by Warrior's. I felt that he hurt my expectations for the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hey, I almost put on Jericho vs Triple H LMS too. Cool beans.

--------

*WWF Summerslam 2000​*
1) Right To Censor _(Steven Richards, The Goodfather, & Bull Buchanan)_ vs Too Cool _(Grand Master Sexay, Scotty Too Hotty, & Rikishi)_ ~ **


2) X-Pac vs Road Dogg ~ **


3) *WWF Intercontinental Championship*
Val Venis(c) & Trish Stratus vs Eddie Guerrero & Chyna ~ **1/4


4) Tazz vs Jerry Lawler ~ **1/2


5) *WWF Hardcore Championship*
Shane McMahon(c) vs Steve Blackman ~ **1/2


6) *Two out of Three Falls Match*
Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit ~ ***1/2


7) *WWF Tag Team Championship* - *Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match*
Edge & Christian(c) vs Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy vs Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley ~ ****3/4


8) *Stinkface Match*
The Kat vs Terri ~ DUD


9) The Undertaker vs Kane ~ ***


10) *WWF Championship* - *Triple Threat Match*
The Rock(c) vs Triple H vs Kurt Angle ~ ***3/4​
~ Right to Censor is one of my favorite gimmicks ever. Legit.

~ X-Pac wins on a PPV in a singles match, yay. Match vs Road Dogg was quite a bit of fun for being so short. Flashbacks to 1995 here.

~ Post-modern Val Venis was pretty cool. Too bad his push didn't last long. Oh well, Eddie got the championship instead. So it worked out.

~ Jerry Lawler rules. Tazz was once in good shape and pretty legit. Funny how we can forget that these days. JR busting the candy jar over his head = OWNS.

~ Shane's fall & Blackman's subsequent elbow from the IMMENSE height will forever be surreal. Can't believe those spots to this day. Shocking seeing it live on PPV. Shocking now. But oh so damn awesome.

~ Jericho vs Benoit was much more quality than I remembered. Thought cramming 3 falls in about 13 minutes hindered them. Vastly incorrect. Good work which is to be expected from both & good selling by Jericho throughout. Selling almost became a problem till Jericho suckered you in thinking he was 100%. Nice job. Good match. Believe their Backlash match might have been their strongest from 2000. Even with the DQ finish.

~ TLC I will forever be probably the greatest spectacle seen in WWF/WWE history. Only TLC match that can honestly come next to it, imo, is the recent modern day blitzkrieg classic of Shield vs Hell No & Ryback. III & IV are VERY honorable mentions in their own right. This match will never lose its luster. <3

~ Stinkface match...genius. Now only stick two women in it I'm attracted to and it'll be the greatest filler match known to man. To think we got this over Al Snow vs Perry Saturn 8*D

~ Undertaker vs Kane was awesome for a 6 minute brawl that randomly ends following the mask being ripped off. More often than not those two smashing each other generally works. Hell in a Cell was baffling. No biggie. American Bad Ass Taker 

~ Electric main event. Even with Kurt being out for the majority thanks to the sick table botch things were plenty stellar here. Rock & H could do no wrong seemingly with each other post WM 2000. It continued on this event. Steph involvement was fun - crowd went insane for every moment. Not hard to understand why myself or some other fans deem this the strongest year for the company. It was so engrossing to watch. Main event follows suit with the rest of the show: IE an absolute blast.

~ Overall - as my buds in Enter Shikari would say: all in all, a splendid spread. Show offered so much different types of matches to enjoy. A great melting pot here.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I would like to say that in my opinion, I was bored when Warrior was in control and I felt the match slowed down due to his control segments.


Edit: I know this is pushing it, but did Vampiro have any good/decent matches during his time in WCW?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched HHH v Jericho recently (it was brought up somewhere, methinks), and thoughts were jotted down:



Spoiler: click and your house blows up



HHH v Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 7/23/00)
I remember a "Legends of Wrestling" Roundtable Discussion where Mick Foley said that Matt Borne gave him advice about how to work as an evil heel. Borne supposedly said something along the lines of "don't cheat and hurt because you need to in order to win the match, cheat and hurt because just want to". I think that's a really cool way of looking at being a dick in the pro-graps, and it's the impression I got from Trip through a lot of this. This is typically called his best performance, and while I'm not 100% convinced it is, I thought he showed a lot here and would rate him much higher than I do right now if he worked liked this all the time. If someone kissed my wife, sent her flowers, and continuously called her trashy names, I wouldn't think as much about winning the wrestling match as much as I would think about mauling the little shit in front of me who was responsible for it. And I'll be damned if I wouldn't be enjoying it. Jericho got his shine in before Trip hits the ribs on the barricade, and then things pick up and Helmsley spends the majority of the time they get strictly attacking that area. Normally I think a guy would be in a psycho frenzy if someone spat shit about his wife, yet I thought the cool and calm approach to the rib work was really what gave Trip that "oh I am going to enjoy THIS" aura. He hit his stuff really well, too. The Flair knee drops on the back looked a lot better than they often do when he uses a knee to the head, and the knee-counter to the lionsault looked nasty. Wicked chairshot or two as well. The abdominal stretch kind of fell apart, which can make it look sucky, but it instead just added a violent touch; like Jericho's body was crumpled and mangled in a demented shape. I mentioned a couple of times how Trip was in a 'methodical' mood, but I really loved how he seemed to get more and more frustrated when Jericho wouldn't stay down. It all came to boiling point when Jericho did a crotch chop and Trip runs at him all pissed off and "Ok, time to end this". Jericho's comeback being kicked off with a low-blow was oddly satisfying, and he did a pretty great job pulling off spin kicks while still selling the after-effects of the beatdown that HHH gave to him for umpteen minutes. On that note, I didn't think Trip sold the walls of Jericho very well. Actually, while he was IN it he was really good; he had this bloody as hell face and was struggling to get the ropes before realising there weren't even rope breaks to begin with. My little problem was that when Steph came in and pulled Jericho off of him, Trip kinda got up all OK and didn't really do the move justice. IDK, maybe I should've been watching Jericho and Steph instead of Trip, but that kind of irked me a little. Whether or not that and the finish (a lame table spot) happened, they weren't going to put a very big stain on this fine piece of......something. Tablecloth. The match is a tablecloth. This is no all-time great performance from Helmsley (like some think it is) nor is it an all time great match (like some think it is), but I could see it as a top 100 of the 2000s. It'll be sitting at #2 of the TWO matches I have right now, but I'd be lying if I said it was a lock.




Also, on topic of Vampiro (topic? someone mentioned him, methinks), he sucked. Like, Konnan/Stevie Ray-level sucked. He couldn't even have that good a match in Mexico working with all time greats. there's APPARENTLY a good match with Mike Awesome, but if I'm honest I don't like Mike Awesome either so I've refused to watch it so far. My favourite Vampiro match was a street fight-ish match with Raven in MLW. Favourite match of someone = Raven + MLW. Just think about that for a second.

I would be willing to go on youtube and dailymotion and watch a bunch of Vampiro for no other reason than curiosity/hope of finding a randomly good match. Shit, there's probably no wrestler in history I wouldn't be willing to do that with. Other than Chuck Taylor.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

big fan of that match yeah1993. but i preferred the match on raw


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vampiro was probably mentioned by myself. Comparing him to Konnan & Stevie Ray is harsh. Can't name a whole slew of matches of his I'd deem special or anything, yet he always got a rise out of me. Meanwhile the other two make me want to fucking kill myself.

I'm a Mike Awesome mark so his superman performances with multiple spots ranks high in my eyes. Chuck Taylor. Ah yes. He's fun. I can name about 20 other indie wrestlers today I detest much more than anything I've seen Chuck Taylor do.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> big fan of that match yeah1993. but i preferred the match on raw


The one where Jericho 'wins' (HE DIDN'T) the title (April) or the other one (June)? The June one is damn good and seems to get overshadowed by the April-fake-title-win one. I prefer the June one, and it's probably the best singles match HHH had on TV in 2000. I can't think of anything better, anyway.




HayleySabin said:


> I'm a Mike Awesome mark so his superman performances with multiple spots ranks high in my eyes. Chuck Taylor. Ah yes. He's fun. I can name about 20 other indie wrestlers today I detest much more than anything I've seen Chuck Taylor do.



Awesome I don't really dislike, but I don't really like him either. Maybe I need to watch all of the Tanaka matches (in some cases watch them again), but the ones I saw didn't feel like hits to me. He's been an 'OK' wrestler in pretty much everything I remember. Actually there were probably two times I thought 'Awesome looks better here than I remember", but I don't recall which matches.

Chuck Taylor's my least favourite wrestler ever. Like, seriously, I actually kind of feel bad hating him as much as I do, because it's a lot. It's **partly** visceral, admittedly, and 'hate' is a strong word, but, fuck............


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Awesome I don't really dislike, but I don't really like him either. Maybe I need to watch all of the Tanaka matches (in some cases watch them again), but the ones I saw didn't feel like hits to me. He's been an 'OK' wrestler in pretty much everything I remember. Actually there were probably two times I thought 'Awesome looks better here than I remember", but I don't recall which matches.
> 
> Chuck Taylor's my least favourite wrestler ever. Like, seriously, I actually kind of feel bad hating him as much as I do, because it's a lot. It's **partly** visceral, admittedly, and 'hate' is a strong word, but, fuck............


There's been more Awesome matches to where I'm usually into than opposed. I mean some from Japan under The Gladiator name were bleh or a mess. But his America run was actually solid, imo, from an in ring stand point. Domination of little guys in EC-DUB was bossy. Sabu would kill himself _(and our interest)_ for 20 minutes and it would suck. Send Awesome out there to kill someone like Kid Kash in 4 minutes and it pretty much stole the show if Tajiri wasn't on it.

Sounds like how I take to guys like Konnan, New Jack, or even for modern purposes, Big E. Langston. A fire burns inside when the only connections we're going by is watching them via our TV or computer screen. Not saying I want them dead - ok, New Jack yes - but fuck go away. Assuming it is along the lines of how you feel with Chuck Taylor.

oh wait. Matt Morgan fits the bill for me too here. I swear to science he has to have the worst list of matches ever over the last 5 years or so. NOTHING is good or even decent.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what 1999 wcw ppv should i watch now?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@King Kenny, Spring Stampede that year was not bad at all. Blitzkrieg/Juventud is DOPE, and Benoit & Malenko/Raven & Saturn is awesome too.

*HIDDENGEM~:
*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

seen it already.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch Starrcade :lmao

Danielson vs Barreta rules. Danielson on Superstars was :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH

whats wrong wit starrcade:?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starrcade is a fucking mess. Just like WCW 1999/2000 was 

Alright, speaking of WCW, here's an idea I've come up with. To name the best match out of every World Heavyweight Champion in WWE history (during said guy's title reign/s), without counting those who had only one title defense. I'll give it a try:

Triple H: vs HBK vs Benoit WM 20
Goldberg: vs HHH vs Kane Armageddon '03
Chris Benoit: vs Orton SSlam '04
Randy Orton: vs Christian OTL '11
Batista: vs Taker WM 23
Kurt Angle: vs Taker NWO '06
Rey Mysterio: vs Orton SD '06
Booker T: Fatal 4-Way NM '06
The Undertaker: vs Batista Backlash '07
Edge: vs Taker WM 24
The Great Khali: vs Kane vs Batista GAB '07
CM Punk: vs JBL SSlam '08
Chris Jericho: vs HBK NM '08
John Cena: Raw Chamber '09
Jeff Hardy: vs Punk SSlam '09
Jack Swagger: vs Orton ER '10
Kane: TLC 4-Way '10
Christian: vs Orton SSlam '11
Mark Henry: vs Show Vengeance '11
The Big Show: vs ADR SD '13
Daniel Bryan: SD Chamber '12
Sheamus: vs Bryan ER '12
Alberto Del Rio: vs Show RR '13


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I'd put Rock/Austin above Michaels/Jericho as MOTN at WM19, Any one feel the same?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Starrcade is a fucking mess. Just like WCW 1999/2000 was
> 
> Alright, speaking of WCW, here's an idea I've come up with. To name the best match out of every World Heavyweight Champion in WWE history (during said guy's title reign/s), without counting those who had only one title defense. I'll give it a try:
> 
> ...


Interesting idea. I might get on that later.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> I'd put Rock/Austin above Michaels/Jericho as MOTN at WM19, Any one feel the same?


It's close, but I still prefer HBK/Jericho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So all combined and not by individual reigns?

Triple H: vs Chris Benoit & Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 20

Goldberg: umm..idk. All his defenses sucked. Khali was easier to pick. And I like Goldberg but damn.

Chris Benoit: vs Triple H & Shawn Michaels - Backlash 2004

Randy Orton: vs Christian - Over The Limit 2011

Batista: vs Triple H - Vengeance 2005 & vs The Undertaker - WrestleMania 23

Kurt Angle: vs Undertaker - No Way Out 2006

Rey Mysterio: Didn't he defend it on TV in his first reign? Can't remember. Regardless for the time being it is vs Kane - Summerslam 2010

Booker T: vs Finlay vs Batista vs Bobby Lashley - No Mercy 2006

The Undertaker: vs Batista - Cyber Sunday 2008

Edge: vs The Undertaker - WrestleMania 24

The Great Khali: vs Rey Mysterio & Batista - Unforgiven 2007

CM Punk: vs Jeff Hardy - Smackdown 8/31/09

Chris Jericho: vs Shawn Michaels - No Mercy 2008

John Cena: Elimination Chamber 2009 (he was hardly in it though. ha.) So toss in vs Chris Jericho - Armageddon 2008 too just b/c.

Jeff Hardy: vs CM Punk - Summerslam 2009

Jack Swagger: vs Chris Jericho & Edge - Smackdown 4/16/10

Kane: vs Undertaker - Night of Champions 2010

Christian: lolz, I guess that match vs Orton from Summerslam 2011 b/c it was the only one.

Mark Henry: vs Big Show - Vengeance 2011 & vs Danielson - Smackdown 11/29/11

The Big Show: vs Sheamus - Survivor Series 2012

Daniel Bryan: vs Big Show - Smackdown 1/6/12

Sheamus: vs Danielson - Extreme Rules 2012

Alberto Del Rio: vs Big Show - Elimination Chamber 2013


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Triple H:* vs Benoit/HBK - WM20

*Goldberg:* vs HHH/Kane - Armageddon '03

*Chris Benoit:* vs HHH/HBK - Backlash '04

*Randy Orton:* vs Christian - Over The Limit '11

*Batista:* vs HHH - Vengeance '05

*Kurt Angle:* vs Undertaker - No Way Out '06

*Rey Mysterio:* Nothing stands out here at all.

*Booker T:* vs Finlay/Lashley/Batista - No Mercy '06

*Undertaker:* vs Batista - Backlash '07

*Edge:* vs Undertaker - WM24

*The Great Khali:* vs Batitsa/Mysterio - Unforgiven '07

*CM Punk:* vs Jeff Hardy (I think it's the SD episode Cody mentioned. I think.)

*Chris Jericho:* vs HBK - No Mercy '08

*John Cena:* Elimination Chamber '09

*Jeff Hardy:* vs CM Punk - Summerslam '09

*Jack Swagger:* vs Randy Orton - Extreme Rules '10

*Kane:* vs Edge vs Del Rio vs Mysterio - TLC '10

*Christian:* vs Randy Orton - Summerslam '11

*Mark Henry:* vs Big Show - Vengeance '11

*Big Show:* vs Sheamus - Survivor Series '12

*Daniel Bryan:* Elimination Chamber '12

*Sheamus:* vs Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules '12

*Alberto Del Rio:* vs Big Show - Elimination Chamber '13

I've probably left something big off.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I'd put Rock/Austin above Michaels/Jericho as MOTN at WM19, Any one feel the same?


Easily


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just realized I botched my Mysterio pick. Kane was the champion in that match. Whoops. Obvious pick is vs Jack Swagger at Money in the Bank 2010. Excellent, excellent 10 minute sprint.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MITB 2010, that little great show everybody crapped on and when it happened, only positive reviews. 
Probably 2nd best PPV of the year behind WM 26.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> MITB 2010, that little great show everybody crapped on and when it happened, only positive reviews.
> Probably 2nd best PPV of the year behind WM 26.


Yep, really enjoyable event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ties with WM for myself. Love the MITB event that year.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

MOTNs for each Wrestlemania:

WM10 - Owen/Bret
WM12 - Shawn/Bret
WM13 - Austin/Bret
WM14 - Taker/Kane
WM15 - Austin/Rock
WM16 - Four Man Elimination Match
WM17 - TLC
WM18 - Taker/Flair or Rock/Hogan
WM19 - Austin/Rock
WM20 - Triple H/HBK/Benoit
WM21 - Shawn/Angle
WM22 - Edge/Foley 
WM23 - Taker/Batista
WM24 - HBK/Flair or Taker/Edge
WM25 - Taker/HBK
WM26 - Taker/HBK
WM27 - Taker/Triple H
WM28 - Taker/Triple H or Punk/Jericho

I didn't really watch any Wrestlemanias prior to the 9th one and I skipped WM9 and WM11 cause they were down right awful.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*WM10* - Owen/Bret
*WM11* - :argh:
*WM12 *- HBK/Bret
*WM13* - Austin/Bret
*WM14* - Austin/HBK
*WM15* - Austin/Rock
*WM16* - Triangle Ladder Match
*WM17* - Austin/Rock (HM - TLC II)
*WM18* - Rock/Hogan
*WM19* - HBK/Jericho (HM - Rock/Austin)
*WM20* - HHH/Benoit/HBK
*WM21* - HBK/Angle
*WM22* - Edge/Foley
*WM23* - Cena/HBK (HM - Taker/Batista)
*WM24* - Taker/Edge
*WM25* - Taker/HBK
*WM26* - Taker/HBK
*WM27* - Taker/HHH
*WM28* - Taker/HHH (HM - Punk/Jericho)

Damn, look at all those Taker matches towards the end. If I'd had the Batista match at WM23 as the best, that would be 6 Taker matches on the spin where he stole the show. GOAT.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Random ratingz:

*Night Of Champions 2010*
Dolph/Kofi - **1/2
Punk/Show - ***
Miz/Bryan - ****
Michelle/Melina - *1/4
Kane/Taker - ***1/2
Tag Team Turmoil - **1/2
6-Pack Challenge - ***3/4

There were plenty of good PPV's in 2010, and this was no exception. Miz/Bryan is really awesome (no pun intended).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I might have the 6 pack challenger lower & the divas is a bust for me, other than that our thoughts on NOC 2010 are quite spot on. Doesn't take much for me to put over 2010 WWE. Gush about it constantly.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I've got a few matches backed up and ready to watch/review today, such as Cena/HHH from a Raw in '09, Cena/Mysterio title match from Raw '11, and I might get round to that Punk/Hardy match from Smackdown '09 that I put in the title defence list earlier. Haven't watched any of these for a while, in fact I'm not sure if I've ever seen Cena/Mysterio. I definitely remember missing that episode of Raw.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> *WM10* - Owen/Bret
> *WM11* - :argh:
> *WM12 *- HBK/Bret
> *WM13* - Austin/Bret
> ...


Maybe, I'm too much of a mark for Taker but you have to admit Taker/Kane was a great big man match and Taker/Flair was all an out awesome brawl.
Damn, How did i forget the Triangle Ladder match from WM16.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Maybe, I'm too much of a mark for Taker but you have to admit Taker/Kane was a great big man match and Taker/Flair was all an out awesome brawl.
> Damn, How did i forget the Triangle Ladder match from WM16.


Oh yeah, there's quite a few Taker matches I've left off, simply because there was a better match that night. I actually prefer Taker/Flair from WM18 to Rock/Hogan in terms of match quality, but the sheer spectacle of Rock/Hogan just puts it on top.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

*King of the Ring 1998 review
*
*Match 1: Taka & The Headbangers vs. Kai En Tai **1/2*
Good, fast paced match to kick off the show. Doesn’t last for very long but it didn’t need to go any longer really. 

Vince Mcmahon cuts a good promo out in the ring and calls everybody in the crowd a disappointment. It’s almost kind of cheap but whatever, he does it well. 

*Match 2: Jeff Jarrett vs. Ken Shamrock ***
The first KOTR semi-final match of the night. Nothing particularly special about this match. Only goes about 5 minutes. Jarrett works Shamrock’s leg and Shamrock builds his way back to make Jarrett tap out awfully quickly. 

*Match 3: The Rock vs. Dan Severn **
The second semi-final match. Nothing good about this either. Lasts only 5 minutes or less. Despite Severn being kinda badass, he’s not much of a worker IMO.

*Match 4: Al Snow & Head vs. Too Much *1/2*
This was okay for a comedy match but perhaps goes on for too long. It’s 8 minutes long. The KOTR matches could’ve been given more time. Head takes the pin when attach a bottle of head and shoulders to it. Yeah, it’s wacky, and I like that, but it really should have been cut down a couple of minutes. 

*Match 5: X-Pac vs. Owen Hart ****
Solid match. Decent length, the pace was good, the finish was perhaps a bit overbooked, but overall an entertaining bout. 

Paul Bearer cuts a good promo in the ring, angry about The Undertaker attacking him in his home. It has been weird watching old Raw lately when Paul Bearer’s on, knowing he’s gone now. He was doing some really good work around this time too. He will be missed

*Match 6: The New Age Outlaws vs. The Midnight Express (Bob Holly & Bart Gunn) **1/2*
NAO are the WWF tag team champions and Midnight Express are the NWA tag team champions. Only the WWF titles are on the line. This was a decent tag match. They go with the typical formula which isn’t a bad thing. Chyna low blows Cornette towards the end which gets a good reaction from the crowd. 

*Match 7: The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock ****
The final match of the KOTR tournament. These guys feuded over the title for a while and Shamrock finally gets some revenge in a good match. 

Time for the big one...

*Match 8: Mankind vs. The Undertaker *****
Yes. Hell in a Cell. If you haven’t seen this match already, well what the hell have you been doing that’s so much more important? I think we all know what this match is about otherwise. It’s absolutely insane and probably the most memorable match in wrestling history. I’ve seen this match so many times but I always tend to forget just how quickly the two major spots happen. I always wonder how exactly Mick Foley survived those two falls and it’s amazing that he somehow managed to stand up, let alone work a match. I really don’t know how to rate this match. I’d love to give it a billion stars just for all out batshit fucking nuts entertainment. It’s not the greatest ‘match’ ever, but it’s still an all-time classic.

*Match 9: Kane vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin **1/2*
Well this was a fun brawl for the WWF title. It’s an entertaining enough match to cap off the show. Kane actually wins the WWF title after some unintentional help from The Undertaker when Mankind also interferes in the match. Yep, Foley made it out for this match too, that crazy bastard. So a fairly shocking (I couldn’t remember how the match went but I didn’t know how they would go about Kane setting himself on fire if he lost), and kinda fun way to end the show. 

Overall, King of the Ring 1998 is an interesting PPV. Most of the undercard isn’t too good (like most PPVs from 98 so far) and there are a few solid matches including the main event. But of course it’s the HIAC match that makes the show memorable, and probably well worth the price at the time. It’s pretty much all anybody will remember (rightfully so) and you can probably go without the rest of the PPV just to see that match. It is a must see match, and you can’t really consider yourself a wrestling fan if you haven’t at least seen it. I’ll give it an overall score of 6/10.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I've got a few matches backed up and ready to watch/review today, such as Cena/HHH from a Raw in '09, Cena/Mysterio title match from Raw '11, and I might get round to that Punk/Hardy match from Smackdown '09 that I put in the title defence list earlier. Haven't watched any of these for a while, in fact I'm not sure if I've ever seen Cena/Mysterio. I definitely remember missing that episode of Raw.


Mysterio was in beast mode on that RAW. Started the night off vs Miz in what was quite the match. Ends vs Cena on an even HIGHER note. Unreal.

Guessing the Cena/HHH match is the one right before Bragging Rights. My suggestion is to watch the first RAW match they had in 2009 prior to it. Despite no clean finish, that's the one I've personally slated as better thanks to it coming first. The October match is honestly an exact carbon copy of the one in July. Crowd is ape for it, but as far as being original it honestly wasn't iirc.

Cage match is so legit. Top 3 tv match for me when it comes to 2009. Which, as we all know, is a very deep pool.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Was always big on Mysterio-Morrison from Smackdown that year (The one from Morrison's DVD) and fancy it as his best match next to the ladder match with Sheamus of course. Punk-Hardy STEALS my TV MOTY that year in perhaps a top 3 cage in company history (modern era anyways, Backlund-Slaughter I really like beforehand), while Cena had a pair of matches against DX individually that were boss as well.

That's just some of the BIGGER and more well known ones though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starting a World Heavyweight Championship project now, with the watching, rewatching and reviewing of ALL the televised WHC matches in WWE history. Firstly going through HHH's 1st defenses, vs Flair on Raw, vs RVD on Unforgiven '02 and vs Kane at No Mercy '02. Before anything, are those good?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching SHIELD promos now, and I've come to the conclusion that if they let Roid/Cena team up and take them out after Wrestlemania I'm probably going to fucking rage worse than if Roid goes over Cena and extends the nightmare of a title reign. They are not only the best thing going in the company today (seriously, in terms of sheer entertainment value they'd be better then anybody, even the real people's champ John Cena and the Best in the World CM Punk), they're one of the only things I really get pumped for every week.

On the bright side, I'm thinking there's a 90 percent chance they walk out of Wrestlemania as winners after competing in perhaps the MOTN, what better could you ask for from three young stars then that? Mania is more important than any other show by FAR so to get a Wrestlemania moment/performance means something completely amazing in itself.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just watched the Jomo/Bourne match WOOLCOCK has pimped a few times again, and holy shit. I think I actually prefer it to his match vs. Rey later on in the year, and is comfortably Morrison's best 1v1 match, with no stips anyway. If we included stips, then I prefer his ladder match against Sheamus. But FUCK. How many times do you see someone PUNT someone in the eye. Morrison was just vicious as hell and Bourne sold like an absolute champion. Anybody who isn't convinced by Morrison, or even Bourne for that matter, need to watch it.

WATCH HERE :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Mysterio was in beast mode on that RAW. Started the night off vs Miz in what was quite the match. Ends vs Cena on an even HIGHER note. Unreal.
> 
> Guessing the Cena/HHH match is the one right before Bragging Rights. My suggestion is to watch the first RAW match they had in 2009 prior to it. Despite no clean finish, that's the one I've personally slated as better thanks to it coming first. The October match is honestly an exact carbon copy of the one in July. Crowd is ape for it, but as far as being original it honestly wasn't iirc.
> 
> Cage match is so legit. Top 3 tv match for me when it comes to 2009. Which, as we all know, is a very deep pool.


Yeah, looking forward to watching these. I think the Cena/HHH one is the earlier match. It was mentioned and posted here about 4 or 5 days ago. 



ATF said:


> Starting a World Heavyweight Championship project now, with the watching, rewatching and reviewing of ALL the televised WHC matches in WWE history. Firstly going through HHH's 1st defenses, vs Flair on Raw, vs RVD on Unforgiven '02 and vs Kane at No Mercy '02. Before anything, are those good?


That project sounds good. I can't recall the Flair match, but the other two are solid enough. Nothing spectacular but worth a watch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The RVD match is AWESOME, legit close to four stars, such an underrated match.

The Flair match is a good little TV match and was the match that first planted the seeds for Evolution.

The Kane match is MEH. It has it's moments and is generally decent but I wouldn't go any further then two and a quarter for that one in particular.

You want an underrated WHC match in the WWE?

11/29/04 RAW : Triple H(c) vs Chris Benoit vs Edge.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> *The RVD match is AWESOME, legit close to four stars, such an underrated match.*
> 
> The Flair match is a good little TV match and was the match that first planted the seeds for Evolution.
> 
> ...


Really? I haven't watched it in a while but don't recall it being that great. May have to re-watch.

That triple threat match is great. That's the one where the title is eventually vacated because of a double fall right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Was always big on Mysterio-Morrison from Smackdown that year (The one from Morrison's DVD) and fancy it as his best match next to the ladder match with Sheamus of course. Punk-Hardy STEALS my TV MOTY that year in perhaps a top 3 cage in company history (modern era anyways, Backlund-Slaughter I really like beforehand), while Cena had a pair of matches against DX individually that were boss as well.
> 
> That's just some of the BIGGER and more well known ones though.


Christian vs Swagger 2/24, man. Can't forget about that classic.



ATF said:


> Starting a World Heavyweight Championship project now, with the watching, rewatching and reviewing of ALL the televised WHC matches in WWE history. Firstly going through HHH's 1st defenses, vs Flair on Raw, vs RVD on Unforgiven '02 and vs Kane at No Mercy '02. Before anything, are those good?


Don't remember the '02 Flair match a single bit.

vs RVD is pretty awesome.

vs Kane is blah city. Trips was off during it. First sign of his dwindling ring work for that year when he was bulky from late '02 - '03.



FluxCapacitor said:


> Just watched the Jomo/Bourne match WOOLCOCK has pimped a few times again, and holy shit. I think I actually prefer it to his match vs. Rey later on in the year, and is comfortably Morrison's best 1v1 match, with no stips anyway. If we included stips, then I prefer his ladder match against Sheamus. But FUCK. How many times do you see someone PUNT someone in the eye. Morrison was just vicious as hell and Bourne sold like an absolute champion. Anybody who isn't convinced by Morrison, or even Bourne for that matter, need to watch it.
> 
> WATCH HERE :mark:


(Y)

Excellent match. Was going to put over Morrison for it too. Guy was good. Even his biggest detractors would have to swallow that pill.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yeah, looking forward to watching these. I think the Cena/HHH one is the earlier match. It was mentioned and posted here about 4 or 5 days ago.


Well hey, wonderful news. I should watch those Cena vs HHH matches myself to see where my memory holds up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, that's the one.

When I watched that match when I was younger, I almost cried because I thought Trips was going to lose the title for good right there. Then WWE says LOL and takes away the WHC from Triple H only to give it to.... Triple H?

+ Trips and Benoit are in the match. If two of those guys are in a match together, it can't POSSIBLY be bad which is why when all things are considered and taken into effect (tag team matches, multi man matches, singles) that Chris Benoit is Triple H's greatest opponent ever.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah, that's the one.
> 
> When I watched that match when I was younger, I almost cried because I thought Trips was going to lose the title for good right there. Then WWE says LOL and takes away the WHC from Triple H only to give it to.... Triple H?
> 
> + Trips and Benoit are in the match. If two of those guys are in a match together, it can't POSSIBLY be bad which is why when all things are considered and taken into effect (tag team matches, multi man matches, singles) that Chris Benoit is Triple H's greatest opponent ever.


Ha, that's funny because my reaction back then was pretty much exactly the same. It was a strange decision but I'm not complaining since we managed to get perhaps the GOAT elimination chamber at New Year's Revolution.

And fuck yes on Benoit/HHH. I was actually thinking of doing a small project consisting entirely of re-watching and reviewing matches involving Benoit and HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember my frustration with WWE when Trips got the World Championship back at NYR '05. Thought that whole angle culminated into something..well dumb. Lost it only to win it back? Ok. Could have had the championship on the line to create tension with Batista either way. All felt pointless at the end of the day.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh, the redeeming value about that was that the match itself was phenomenal.

Link to the HHH/Naitch match for those you haven't watched it: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2kw78_2002-triple-h-vs-ric-flair-world-he_sport#.UUm5PRx92cs


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh the match is utter brilliance at the end of the day. Angle only left a few puzzling questions why the vacancy was booked in the first place. Made those weeks on RAW fun. Had a logical faulting conclusion though. Minor negative as things worked out the way they did.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TRIPLE H DESERVED IT. HE WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS SECOND PRIME.

Legit though, I believe that from Wrestlemania XX to the end of his last heel run, The Game was on 99 percent of the time in the only period of his career that you could put up there with 2000. Ill elaborate later after class, but seriously...... He was one of the best in the world at that point but few acknowledged it kind of like Cena today. Hell, if I were to do a top 10 Triple H performances list, over half would probably be from that time period (vs Eugene, HIAC vs Batista, Royal Rumble 2006, vs Big Show NYR, vs Benoit Gold Rush all instantly spring to mind, his best performance being in 2000 against Jericho though).

Then DX came again, and Haitch's ring work sucked. Then he got hurt, came back, and SUCKED again. He's had some really awesome matches as a face from 2007-present but for the most part he can be a really inconsistent face worker. Apart from 2002-2003, he was ALWAYS a great heel worker. The last time I'd say that Trips was the driving force behind a four star match would be..... A VERY FUCKING LONG TIME AGO. As in, 2008 at the very earliest ; I would say the hardy matches but that's more of a chemistry thing then anything else...... So I'm going to say the No Mercy 2007 last man standing. WOW.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship project:*

*HHH/Flair Raw 9/2/2002:* ***1/4. Like KOK said, this match planted the 1st seeds for the birth of Evolution. It's fine, they did a nice job with the 9 minutes they were given. Not amazing, but a good 1st WHC defense. Psychology is, as you'd expect from these two, bombshell. Flair's selling is brilliant, and Trips does a great job of keeping up with him in every corner. The finish was cheap, but whatever - it's HHHH (Heel HHH) we're talking about 

*HHH/RVD Unforgiven 2002:* ***3/4. 20 minutes of motivated RVD and non-2003 HHH. Awesome. Once again, really good psychology work, storytelling is dope too. Liked the matwork at the beggining, how they reversed almost everything they had, and how well structured the pace of the match is. RVD had the crowd in the palm of his hands, they loved him immensely. HHH, on the other hand, was an absolute heat magnet. The cheap, but memorable finish proved it. Angle/Benoit and Lesnar/Taker were superior and much more remembered, which is a shame, because not only is it an awesome forgotten gem but that marked the 1st PPV appearence of the World Heavyweight Title on PPV.

Two done, two good. Hope that streak continues...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh things are going to get hilariously bad VERY SOON .

I was just trying to think about when the last time the best worker in the company held the WWE Championship. In the last 10 years, here's what I came up with ;

- CM Punk (2011-2013 .... If you wanna hear my explanation for Punk>Bryan>Cena you should listen to BRET's take on Punk and you'll have everything that I currently believe in a nutshell)

- John Cena (2006-2007)

- Brock Lesnar (2003)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Triple H vs John Cena (#1 Contenders Match) - Raw July 6th 2009*

This was the final of the 'Night Of Champions Tournament' The match starts off with both men hitting some high impact moves, before Triple H takes control and briefly works on Cena's back with backbreakers, a suplex and a couple of elbow drops. Cena kicks out of a few pin attempts before mounting a comeback in typical Cena style. He goes for the AA but HHH slides out and hits some typical offense of his own. He hits the spinebuster and wants to hit the Pedigree, but Cena counters. Both men showing how well they know each other, and having an answer for the other's finisher. 

Triple H takes control again by trapping Cena in a sleeper hold. Cena fades before powering out and locks in a sleeper of his own. HHH sells well before countering with a suplex. Another good section there, each man trying to out do the other. Cena using a sleeper hold was surprising and interesting to see. Both men get up before the count of ten and exchange some heavy right hands. The crowd is heavily in The Game's favour. Cena wins the fist battle, before going up top and missing with the leg drop. HHH goes for the Pedigree but Cena counters into a roll up, and then tries to lock in the STF. HHH wriggles to the ropes, Cena tries to drag him back but almost gets caught as HHH tries a roll up.

Both men then try to hit their respective finishers again, but are thwarted before both get taken out with a clothesline each. This match looks to be coming to an end before Legacy arrives and it ends in a double disqualification.

Solid match. About the same as I remember it. I think the time limited them slightly, as had this been a PPV they would have got a little longer. Good storytelling throughout though, both men showing how well they know each other with finisher counters, and each trying to win unusually for them with roll ups and sleepers.

****1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good streak won't remain till you hit up Survivor Series '02. Unless you're doing singles matches only, ATF. Then you won't find a good match till WrestleMania vs Booker T. En route to there are vs Kane, vs Michaels which is ugh, & vs Steiner x2 in the notorious bad affairs.

I grunted at the match I give the "best rating" to. That's how poor the PPV streak was for the World Championship there.

Oh, and nice reviews (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/HHH III gets **1/2 tops from me. 4th match is their best in the series at ****.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THREE STAGES OF HELLOL MATCH. HILARITY ENSUES :lol.

Seriously though, might be my favourite "bad match" ever. Flair comes in for like 3 seconds and blades and they use a ton of weapons on each other with some of the worst psychology you'll ever see in a match :lol.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Rawk said:


> Cena/HHH III gets **1/2 tops from me. 4th match is their best in the series at ****.


4th match? The the one a few months later on Raw '09?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> 4th match? The the one a few months later on Raw '09?


Yeah, one right before BR that HHH wins.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Night of Champions '08 is the best match in the series. Love WM22 as well. Two big time main events.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

'09 was a really good year for high quality TV matches. Just off the top of my head:

Swagger/Christian
Hardy/Punk (Cage)
Mysterio/Morrison
Trips/Orton (LMS)
Trips/Cena
HBK/Cena

All ****+ imo.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Nothing between Cena and Hunter comes close to WrestleMania 22.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Night of Champions '08 is the best match in the series. Love WM22 as well. Two big time main events.


Agree here, though I wouldn't personally use the word 'love' for their WM22 match, though I do like it more than most.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More like everything beats Cena vs Triple H from 22.

To add to the 2009 TV list: Jericho vs Mysterio a few times, Punk vs Morrison series, Edge vs Morrison, Jeff Hardy vs Morrison, Undertaker vs CM Punk, Finlay vs Knox, etc. That's all from Smackdown only. Haven't even gone into what ECW & Superstars pumped out either. Regal vs Christian :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Trips has a **** rating from me. Great match, but nothing epic. I think it would have worked better if HHH entered this match as champ,l


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of 2002 WHC matches, has RVD vs HBK been erased? I watched it the other day and it was alright but it seems like no one remembers it here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Night of Champions 2008 demolishes WrestleMania 22. It was the match those two should have had the first time around.

I do, C2D. Was PISSED when RVD was so close to winning only for me to be trolled. Not cool for a 12 year old kid who marks for RVD.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Trips/Cena 

WM22 - *** 1/2
NOC 08 - ****
Raw 10/19/09 - *** 1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Night of Champions 2008 demolishes WrestleMania 22. It was the match those two should have had the first time around.
> 
> I do, C2D. Was PISSED when RVD was so close to winning only for me to be trolled. Not cool for a 12 year old kid who marks for RVD.


I don't understand why they never gave RVD a chance back then. He got a couple of title opportunities and fans were heavily behind him but by 2003, he was first tagging with Kane, then became Kane's bitch after the unmasking and was moved down to the midcards by winning the IC title several times in short reigns that barely lasted. (good matches with Christian, Jericho in a steel cage and Orton, though)

To WWE's credit, when they gave him the ball, he screwed up big time. Although if Swagger got away with it, RVD should have too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I never get tired of HHH/Cena from 22. The atmosphere is ridiculously good and Trips making Cena look like a fool always brings a smile to my face. Wanted Cena to lose the title more than anything wrestling related at that time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Night of Champions 2008 demolishes WrestleMania 22. It was the match those two should have had the first time around.


I'm not saying Cena was bad at the time but I don't know if they were capable of having the match they had at NoC '08 at WM22. I liked how Cena was the big underdog at Mania, working a step or two behind HHH and eventually overcoming him. NoC was them working as equals and it's a superb WWE style main event.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I do, C2D. Was PISSED when RVD was so close to winning only for me to be trolled. Not cool for a 12 year old kid who marks for RVD.


RVD was my first favorite wrestler when I started watching wrestling in late 2003. 

I was annoyed when Orton took the title off him. Then by 2004, I started to dig Orton and Christian became my favorite wrestler in that Christian/Jericho/Trish feud. Didn't take along at all before I started preferring the heels.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hey guys, I just have one really weird question to ask that just popped into my head. Before Youtube and Dailymotion how did you guys get your daily fix of wrestling? I was way too young pre-Youtube to even know that I could have watched wrestling on the internet so it'd be cool to know.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The one where Jericho 'wins' (HE DIDN'T) the title (April) or the other one (June)? The June one is damn good and seems to get overshadowed by the April-fake-title-win one. I prefer the June one, and it's probably the best singles match HHH had on TV in 2000. I can't think of anything better, anyway.


Just watched the June match. 6/12/00. Really good stuff.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/HHH WM22- ***
NOC- ****

NOC>>>>>>>>>WM22


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't understand why they never gave RVD a chance back then. He got a couple of title opportunities and fans were heavily behind him but by 2003, he was first tagging with Kane, then became Kane's bitch after the unmasking and was moved down to the midcards by winning the IC title several times in short reigns that barely lasted. (good matches with Christian, Jericho in a steel cage and Orton, though)
> 
> To WWE's credit, when they gave him the ball, he screwed up big time. Although if Swagger got away with it, RVD should have too.


RVD was insanely over and he wasn't going to get the championship during 2003. That was evolution's time to shine. RVD rolling as Intercontinental champion wasn't a bad rub at all. Championship meant something back then.

RVD was punished b/c he was the champion though. Swagger could be buried in 15 seconds come WrestleMania for we know anyways.



Saint Dick said:


> I'm not saying Cena was bad at the time but I don't know if they were capable of having the match they had at NoC '08 at WM22. I liked how Cena was the big underdog at Mania, working a step or two behind HHH and eventually overcoming him. NoC was them working as equals and it's a superb WWE style main event.


Cena certainly was more in his niche come 2008, but the whole story of the WM 22 match was to showcase Triple H as more of the "purer" of the two in the ring - hence the "schooling" in the first portion of the match. Ironic how Trips' ego at the time though Cena was bad in the ring when contrary Cena has Triple H beat overall as a wrestler. Ego is fine, but damn that guy sometimes.



Nostalgia said:


> RVD was my first favorite wrestler when I started watching wrestling in late 2003.
> 
> I was annoyed when Orton took the title off him. Then by 2004, I started to dig Orton and Christian became my favorite wrestler in that Christian/Jericho/Trish feud. Didn't take along at all before I started preferring the heels.


Rob Van Dam was the MAN. I mean I still like him, but more b/c of nostalgic purposes.

I was warming up to Orton slowly and surely towards the end of '03 so I wasn't opposed. As 2004 rolled on Orton would be second in WWE for me only sharing the spot in general with RVD & behind Undertaker of course. Shelton Benjamin flew up on my favorites list in no time too during 2004. SHELTON IMO. At one time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena certainly was more in his niche come 2008, but the whole story of the WM 22 match was to showcase Triple H as more of the "purer" of the two in the ring - hence the "schooling" in the first portion of the match. Ironic how Trips' ego at the time though Cena was bad in the ring when contrary Cena has Triple H beat overall as a wrestler. Ego is fine, but damn that guy sometimes.


I don't think many people were calling Cena a better worker than Triple H in 2006, and they shouldn't have been because he wasn't. Cena only really came into his own as a top level wrestler in '07 and even now it's not like technical ability and smooth execution are his main strengths.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I don't think many people were calling Cena a better worker than Triple H in 2006, and they shouldn't have been because he wasn't. Cena only really came into his own as a top level wrestler in '07 and even now it's not like technical ability and smooth execution are his main strengths.


Talking about overall. Cena has Triple H beat by massive miles. Don't need "technical ability" to be better. Dean Malenko has Cena edged out in a technical perspective too. Doesn't mean he can come close to where Cena is overall though.

Triple H isn't even that good, quite frankly. Never bought into the WWE machine that tries to feed how he's some master of the ring.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Talking about overall. Cena has Triple H beat by massive miles. Don't need "technical ability" to be better. Dean Malenko has Cena edged out in a technical perspective too. Doesn't mean he can come close to where Cena is overall though.
> 
> Triple H isn't even that good, quite frankly. Never bought into the WWE machine that tries to feed how he's some master of the ring.


Cena was better than Triple H in 2006? Nah not buying that for a second.

Never said you need 'technical ability' to be better, but wasn't that the build for HHH/Cena at 22? That Hunter was the purer, more technical wrestler?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fed to us by JR while they were showing both backstage warming up. Felt like such a bs cop out to make up an excuse as to why Cena was getting boos at the time. WWE didn't seem intent on embracing the jeers just yet so they tried calling Cena unorthodox to make the current heat justified instead of acknowledging fans just wanted to boo Cena on their own accord.

I'll take Cena over Trips in 2006. Neither one did much of anything that year based on memory so it isn't exactly hard to make this decision. Big Show worked his magic vs H to start the year and then all the other noteworthy Triple H matches I can think of were in a multiman environment. Not telling you to agree, it's how I view it. Reason to why I've never been a fan of the guy post-2000.


----------



## bstn002 (Mar 20, 2013)

hi I like your forum


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Fed to us by JR while they were showing both backstage warming up. Felt like such a bs cop out to make up an excuse as to why Cena was getting boos at the time. WWE didn't seem intent on embracing the jeers just yet so they tried calling Cena unorthodox to make the current heat justified instead of acknowledging fans just wanted to boo Cena on their own accord.
> 
> I'll take Cena over Trips in 2006. Neither one did much of anything that year based on memory so it isn't exactly hard to make this decision. Big Show worked his magic vs H to start the year and then all the other noteworthy Triple H matches I can think of were in a multiman environment. Not telling you to agree, it's how I view it. Reason to why I've never been a fan of the guy post-2000.


I don't necessarily mean in the year in 2006, I just mean that up to that point in his career Cena hadn't had enough great matches or performances to be called better than HHH imo. Had no problem with them building up Hunter as a superior worker because around that time, especially on this forum, Cena was getting a lot of stick for his ring work.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Rob Van Dam was the MAN. I mean I still like him, but more b/c of nostalgic purposes.
> 
> I was warming up to Orton slowly and surely towards the end of '03 so I wasn't opposed. As 2004 rolled on Orton would be second in WWE for me only sharing the spot in general with RVD & behind Undertaker of course. Shelton Benjamin flew up on my favorites list in no time too during 2004. SHELTON IMO. At one time.


I still like him too. And the five star frog splash will always been one of my favorite finishers. As the years progressed he wasn't one of top favorites anymore, but I still liked him. And by 2006 when he was getting that push, I got behind him again. I've seen very little of his TNA work but I've heard he's pretty shit now. 

Christian, RVD, Orton, Edge were my favorites in 2004. But I also liked many other wrestlers on the roster at the time too such as: Eddie, Benoit, Angle, JBL, Taker, Jericho, HBK... can't say the same about the current roster..


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The atmosphere for the first two ECW One Night Stands:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I don't necessarily mean in the year in 2006, I just mean that up to that point in his career Cena hadn't had enough great matches or performances to be called better than HHH imo. Had no problem with them building up Hunter as a superior worker because around that time, especially on this forum, Cena was getting a lot of stick for his ring work.


Came off as overreaction to me. So, the face is getting boos. Oh well. Then all of a sudden his ring work is being called into question. Funny how some out there still like to latch onto this mentality too. Opened up a can of worms. Meanwhile Batista was out there being shoddy till he met Undertaker and never got any flak. Logic there that I'll never understand.



Nostalgia said:


> I still like him too. And the five star frog splash will always been one of my favorite finishers. As the years progressed he wasn't one of top favorites anymore, but I still liked him. And by 2006 when he was getting that push, I got behind him again. I've seen very little of his TNA work but I've heard he's pretty shit now.
> 
> Christian, RVD, Orton, Edge were my favorites in 2004. But I also liked many other wrestlers on the roster at the time too such as: Eddie, Benoit, Angle, JBL, Taker, Jericho, HBK... can't say the same about the current roster..


Oh yeah. Not quite the same swift Van Dam these days. More of less very uninspired. He seems to be fully done with TNA so who knows the next time he'll work a match. Guaranteed the next location won't get his full attention either. Oh well. He's done plenty during his prime to show he once was quality.

I like the current roster more than I dislike it. There are some eyesores in my opinion: crap such as Langston, Kofi, Truth, Sin Cara. Then dead weight like JTG or Jinder Mahal. I was being vague, but the majority of the roster past those few work for me. Hell of an underrated midcard. No matter what elements they bring, the talent is there. Ranging from Drew McIntyre to Justin Gabriel to Prime Time Players. Offering something different to the game. If the company capitalized on it, well things would mesh so much better.


----------



## bstn002 (Mar 20, 2013)

did anyone who had not Watch WWE Raw March 18, 2013.?wwezz com


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, I don't understand the Cena hate from 2006 at all. That was truly a bandwagon that many hopped on at the same time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He was still annoying as fuck back then. Put on some decent matches, but his character was still awful.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy crap, just watched JBL vs Show Barb Wired Cage match and man what a great ending that was. When Big Show walked out the cage I think to myself "WTF, How the hell does the match end up being Cena vs JBL at WM 21 then?" I stopped watching WWE by this time so I knew nothing about the ending. But damn, I'm sucker for booking like this. I loved it. I thought it was a damn great way to build suspense.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I loved JBL's title reign. Cowardly heel booking at its finest. He ALWAYS found away to scrap out the win.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL vs Show is a good match too. Pretty underrated in terms of a forgotten fun match in his championship reign.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh yeah. Not quite the same swift Van Dam these days. More of less very uninspired. He seems to be fully done with TNA so who knows the next time he'll work a match. Guaranteed the next location won't get his full attention either. Oh well. He's done plenty during his prime to show he once was quality.


I've heard he's unmotivated in matches these days and stuff, but yeah, agree on that last line. 



HayleySabin said:


> I like the current roster more than I dislike it. There are some eyesores in my opinion: crap such as Langston, Kofi, Truth, Sin Cara. Then dead weight like JTG or Jinder Mahal. I was being vague, but the majority of the roster past those few work for me. Hell of an underrated midcard. No matter what elements they bring, the talent is there. Ranging from Drew McIntyre to Justin Gabriel to Prime Time Players. Offering something different to the game. If the company capitalized on it, well things would mesh so much better.


It's not that I dislike much of the roster, I just don't care for it. WWE give no reason to care for a good portion of the talent. I only like a few guys in WWE currently, whereas I liked a dozen in 2004. But I also only dislike a few guys really, the rest I just don't care for.



The Lady Killer said:


> I loved JBL's title reign. Cowardly heel booking at its finest. He ALWAYS found away to scrap out the win.


One of my most favorite title reigns. (Y)



sharkboy22 said:


> Holy crap, just watched JBL vs Show Barb Wired Cage match and man what a great ending that was. When Big Show walked out the cage I think to myself "WTF, How the hell does the match end up being Cena vs JBL at WM 21 then?" I stopped watching WWE by this time so I knew nothing about the ending. But damn, I'm sucker for booking like this. I loved it. I thought it was a damn great way to build suspense.


It was a great ending. With how JBL would often win his matches with the help of The Cabinet, it made you think how he would retain in a barbed wire match with The Big Show where there was no place to run or hide and no outside interference, but he did it, and that win made him look strong going to into his WrestleMania match with Cena imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I loved JBL's title reign. Cowardly heel booking at its finest. He ALWAYS found away to scrap out the win.


Great reign. I'd love to see another proper cowardly heel title run. CM Punk had glimpses towards the end but he'd already won a lot of matches clean as a face.

Bring back JBL?

:HHH2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I've heard he's unmotivated in matches these days and stuff, but yeah, agree on that last line.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that I dislike much of the roster, I just don't care for it. WWE give no reason to care for a good portion of the talent. I only like a few guys in WWE currently, whereas I liked a dozen in 2004. But I also only dislike a few guys really, the rest I just don't care for.


Indeed. That's the case. TNA pays him a massive sum with or without the incentive to work hard. Hard to blame him given the situation. Wished he put his best foot forward, can't hold it against him.

Understandable. Fault all on WWE too. Lugnuts having potential to get the most out of their roster yet it is spread so thin. Meanwhile TNA has a relatively small roster and tries to squeeze almost too much out of it. Weird situations both major US companies are dealing with these days. WWE's is much, much more obnoxious though. b/c you know to almost never care when two midcarders work on TV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's how they booked JBL that made his reign so special, I mean look at his big title defenses and how he escaped them :

Summerslam vs Taker : Gets DQ'ed, put through limo post match.
No Mercy vs Taker : Looks like there's no chance he's wining, Heidenreich interferes
Survivor Series vs Booker : OJ interference
Armageddon 4-way : Again, all hope is lost as JBL is going against his 3 biggest enemies. Heidenreich intereres again.
Royal Rumble : OJ again
No Way Out : OH SHIT NOBODY CAN INTERFERE.... Somehow slithers his way out anyways

Now all we'd hear if somebody had this type of booking is "OMG THEY LOOK WEAK"... That's how alot of heels are SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE. Like Punk as a heel ; he's clearly not as physically gifted as a Ryback or a Cena, so him using any means necessary to keep his title is comprehensible.

Now if you have a guy like BROCK/HENRY and you book them like that then..FUCK YOU .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, people actually couldn't wait to see JBL get properly defeated for the title. Every time he would find a way to slither away with the title despite getting beat to shit. Was pretty great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Too bad it was ended in the most unspectacular fashion at Wrestlemania. Did they really have to waste so much time on that sumo crap and give Batista & HHH 20 minutes? I think the loss would've been a lot more special if they had been given a bit more time. At least they made up for it at Judgment Day.

2005 was such an awesome year. Not just in wrestling, but personally I loved that time, specially early months.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Even how he WON the title was ridiculous as it was a compete accident. The bloody face of JBL smiling as he just essentially won the WWE Championship despite having no idea is a fantastic visual.

Unfortunately it led to Eddie-Kurt @ Summerslam 2004, which is the worst Guerrero match I've ever seen and typical garbage KURT.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Understandable. Fault all on WWE too. Lugnuts having potential to get the most out of their roster yet it is spread so thin. Meanwhile TNA has a relatively small roster and tries to squeeze almost too much out of it. Weird situations both major US companies are dealing with these days. WWE's is much, much more obnoxious though. b/c you know to almost never care when two midcarders work on TV.


Yeah. WWE seems to only care about the main-event these days. I mean, look what they're doing to Cesaro atm, he was starting to grab a lot of people's attention with his decently-booked title reign and his character growth, but for the past month they've turned him into a jobber. Guys like Sandow who I'm a big fan of, I find it hard to care with how they book him. There's guys like Hunico, Drew McIntyre and Justin Gabriel who could be midcard fixtures, but WWE seems intent on keeping them jobbers.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only problem I had with Punk becoming such a cowardly heel that always needed something to escape with the title is as a face for the first half of his reign, he was the exact opposite and never showed signs of being cowardly. It's like they just changed him into a different person, which was my problem with him looking weak/cowardly. Had he started his reign as that sort of heel I probably would've been fine with it. Plus then when he started fighting Rock, he turned into a badass again... but now against Taker, he's all of a sudden a coward (which against Taker I do understand considering Taker's gimmick, but it's still odd). There isn't a lot of consistency with Punk's heel character. One second he's a coward, the next he's jumping into a fist fight with one of the greatest of all time. 

Also the thing about JBL is he never got pinned or submitted aside from maybe once during his reign. He may have always slithered out, but he also never got "beat" by anyone. Not the same with Punk... or pretty much any non-monster heel today. Nowadays heels lose 90% of the time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can only imagine the bitching that must have gone on here about JBL looking 'weak' or something. :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I was just bitching about JBL at the time no matter what he did, period.

Man, I hated him more than I've hated any other wrestler in the history of watching wrestling, and now looking back on his reign it was very entertaining. My how things change... then again when JBL's reign started, I just graduated from elementary school. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's so entertaining to read the vaults of wrestling forums. The amount of bitching about Bradshaw getting pushed was ridiculous. The hoping of him getting fired after The Great American Bash following the Nazi taunt thing in Germany was over the top when I came across it. Other IWC villains were Cena from the beginning of 2005 (his character was becoming super crap then, can't blame the haters) and Orton (DURRR HE CANT WRESTLE!!!!). Oh and definitely Triple H. There was always the pessimism that no matter how many times he jobs, he will eventually win the title back. Then in 2006, they were on his dick and wanted him to end Cena's reign badly.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just started watching the WCW PPVs I downloaded and just finished WrestleWar '91. Hansen/Vader was great and War Games was tremendous. Everything else was meh.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Its interesting how some Mania matches haven't gone well, but the rematches at the following PPV (or the next brand PPV) have been better.

Rock/Austin at Backlash 1999
Rock/Trips at Backlash 2000
Angle/Benoit Backlash 2001 (Maybe I'm mistaken here?)
Cena/JBL JD 2005
Batista/Trips Backlash (or Vengeance)
Bryan/Sheamus Extreme Rules 2012 (only one reason their match flopped at Mania)
Punk/Jericho Extreme Rules (though their Mania match was actually pretty good)

Any others?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*World Heavyweight Championship: CM Punk (c) vs Jeff Hardy (Steel Cage Match) - Smackdown August 28th 2009*

Another match mentioned earlier that I said I'd watch. I remember this being pretty damn good when it first aired. Will it hold up?

I love how this match starts off. Hardy comes out, yet he doesn't even make it to the ring before Punk is down there and attacking him. Simple but effective heel work. Punk got awesome heat throughout this run and it's no different during this match. Punk's in control after his early ambush and tries a couple of early escapes but Hardy thwarts him. This is just days after their TLC match at Summerslam and Punk is heavily taped around his left shoulder, but it's a shame that Hardy doesn't directly target his shoulder once during the match. Punk stays in control after ducking a cross body, before Jeff comes back and hits a Whisper in the Wind and begins to get on top. He tries to escape but Punk follows him up there, only to get shoved back down and met with a successful cross body this time.

Both men try to escape over the top and through the door, only for the other to stop them. Punk gets set to catapult Hardy into the cage but Jeff hangs on and tries to climb. Punk follows him up and both are left standing awkwardly in the corner until Punk falls down and Hardy hits the Swanton off the top rope. He's slow to cover and Punk kicks out at 2. After getting to their feet, Hardy throws himself into Punk who was caught between the cage and the ropes. Painful looking spot there. Both men exchange power moves and counters before Hardy slips out of the GTS and hits the Twist of Fate. He goes to escape the cage but Punk follows him up. Hardy's legs dangle over the edge before Punk pulls him back in and hits a huge superplex from the top of the cage. Punk climbs the cage and is poised to win. Hardy tries to stop him but Punk pushes him down hard onto the ropes and drops to the floor on the outside, retaining the title.

Great match, though not quite as good as I remember it. Jeff should have targeted Punk's taped shoulder at least a few times, but this match was mostly about each man trying to escape without enduring too much punishment. Two ad breaks killed the momentum a bit but still very solid. That superplex was huge and a solid feud-ender. Punk's smug look at the end was awesome.

****3/4*


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

-Mystery- said:


> Just started watching the WCW PPVs I downloaded and just finished WrestleWar '91. Hansen/Vader was great and War Games was tremendous. Everything else was meh.


Should go back a bit. I'd say start at Clash 1, or the '88 Bash. Run of Clashes and PPV through the next 3 years are extremely worth it.

A day from watching the Great American Bash '86. These weekly shows kill me. 45 minutes, 5-6 matches, none last longer than 3-4 minutes. Then I'm doomed to watch another Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes match. Can't wait for Garvin/Blanchard, Warriors/Midnight though. McDaniel/J. Garvin looks to be a great blood feud, too. Their interviews in the lead up have been a highlight. The main highlight is just Arn Anderson promos and matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Hey guys, I just have one really weird question to ask that just popped into my head. Before Youtube and Dailymotion how did you guys get your daily fix of wrestling? I was way too young pre-Youtube to even know that I could have watched wrestling on the internet so it'd be cool to know.


I've honestly never watched very much WWE on the internet. As a kid we ALWAYS recorded the PPVs we bought on VHS tapes so I have PPVs ranging from 1996-2006 on tape from the 3 big companies at the time. Not to mention some occasional TNA shows & RAW/SD's I'd record. Throw that in with the small collection of DVDs I had at the time and watching the weekly TV shows and I was all set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM X review in my blog . I've seen people throw *** at Savage/Crush, and I'd just like to say, you are all insane if you did . God awful match with dumb as fuck rules and a shit ending. YOU GO TO HELL MATCH.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just rewatched Eddie vs Rey from 23/6/2005 and _now_ I see all the talk about it being such a great match. I just didn't pay attention the first time around but here, I noticed it all. The way Eddie goes from trying to outwrestle Rey but fails and instead starts to become more intense and a douche by punking him around... excellent storytelling and then when he gets too confident, Rey catches him off guard and uses that opportunity to pick up the win. ★★★★½.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Its interesting how some Mania matches haven't gone well, but the rematches at the following PPV (or the next brand PPV) have been better.
> 
> Rock/Austin at Backlash 1999
> Rock/Trips at Backlash 2000
> ...


Austin/Benoit didn't face at BL 2001, and that would be the rematch of WM17 you're referring to between Rock and Austin, which happened on the following Raw I believe in a cage where Austin and HHH joined forces. 

Anyway, list is pretty good. Batista/HHH Backlash wasn't anything special, though a bit better than their Mania match, but the HIAC is what made the feud worth it. And Punk/Jericho WM28 I'd put a fair bit over their Extreme Rules encounter, which was very good as well, but not on the level of the Mania match.

Guerrero/Mysterio SD June 2005- ****1/4. Awesome match. Best in the feud.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Even how he WON the title was ridiculous as it was a compete accident. The bloody face of JBL smiling as he just essentially won the WWE Championship despite having no idea is a fantastic visual.
> 
> Unfortunately it led to Eddie-Kurt @ Summerslam 2004, which is the worst Guerrero match I've ever seen and typical garbage KURT.


I like to pretend that SummerSlam match never happened


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CAL.

How DARE you not give Bret/Owen the full five . I'm in the same boat as you in the sense that I find it really hard at times to pinpoint what exactly makes the match great as it's as close to perfect as you're going to get in terms of WWF/WWE matches with one match being better than it. Isn't it like Bret/Austin in the sense that it's universally a five star match?

I can't believe people rate Wrestlemania XXVI HBK-Taker < Wrestlemania XXV. Actually yes I can, as they're two completely different matches and they both excel at what they're best at, but if you're looking deeper into it then XXVI is your match. Excitement and adrenaline? XXV is the perfect match for that.

If you're looking for the best pure OPENER to get everything hyped up and to set the pace, look no further then Triple H vs Mick Foley @ IYH Canadian Stampede. Why that match? Because it's awesome, it's fast paced, it's brutal for it's time, and most importantly, it isn't the best match on the card. A show SHOULD NOT FUCKING PEAK WITH IT'S OPENER. Personal preference for me is to have your best match be the main event, with some really good complimentary pieces surrounding that huge match ; Hence why I'm such a huge fan of shows like Wrestlemania XXVI, Extreme Rules 2012, MITB 2011, Vengeance 2005, etc. They all have an array of four star matches mixed in with three star matches, but the best is always saved for last.

OH, and LOLKURT.

:kurt


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

*WRESTLEMANIA XI*

Allied Powers vs. Jacob & Eli Blu - *1/2
*Intercontinental Championship*: Jeff Jarrett (c) vs. Razor Ramon - **3/4
The Undertaker vs. King Kong Bundy - *3/4
*Tag Team Championship*: The Smoking Gunns (c) vs. Owen Hart and Yokozuna - **1/2
*I Quit Match*: Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund - **1/4
*WWF Championship*: Diesel (c) vs. Shawn Michaels - ***
Laurence Taylor vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - *3/4

What a shitty show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On my re-watch of Bret/Owen from a few days ago, I now have it at ****3/4 (down from *****). Sorry KOK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Pretty much my exact sentiments for that shit show, although I liked the opener alot more and hated Bundy-Taker alot more. Such a bad Wrestlemania, but not Wrestlemania I & II bad of course.

Those are the worst .

FUCK. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE AT FIVE STARS? ANYTHING?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*@Krang*
I was actually thinking of checking out that Bam Bam and LT Rapist match for nostalgic reasons.

About the question of whether or not Vampiro had decent matches in WCW, 'twas I who asked. I just bookmarked some random matches on YT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> WM X review in my blog . I've seen people throw *** at Savage/Crush, and I'd just like to say, you are all insane if you did . God awful match with dumb as fuck rules and a shit ending. YOU GO TO HELL MATCH.


Damn you, Cal. :gaga


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cal's pissing everybody off today.

TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS EVERYONE! 

:brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh and to comment on your point of a show not needing to peak with the opener, KOK. Not every show suffers from that. Case & point - SummerSlam 2002. Angle vs Mysterio = YES.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> Pretty much my exact sentiments for that shit show, although I liked the opener alot more and hated Bundy-Taker alot more. Such a bad Wrestlemania, but not Wrestlemania I & II bad of course.
> 
> Those are the worst .
> 
> FUCK. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE AT FIVE STARS? ANYTHING?


lol, 2-3 matches right now (down from the 4 I had on Sunday). Taker/HBK WM25, and Bret/Austin WM13... and then there's Taker/HBK BB1997, which I'm torn on right now and I don't know what to do with it. I want to give it *****, but what's keeping me from putting it at the full ***** is along the same lines as why I took Benoit/Angle off *****. The match starts out very boring for a good deal of time and when I re-watched it a few days ago, I just wasn't into it. It started getting a lot better as the match went on and Taker squashing HBK for most of it is awesome and all and they made great use of the cell... but I just couldn't get into it for the first 5 or so minutes, which honestly felt a lot longer. At the same time as well, can I really allow my mark-dom of Taker and the cell match, coupled with the fact it's the original (and regardless of my decision on stars, still the best one) to excuse the very very dull beginning? 

Meh, I think I need to give it another watch to really decide. Maybe I was just sick for the first 5-10 minutes of the match on the last watch.  However, I should mention that it's still my number 3 match of all time, much like what it was before I went back and started re-watching/re-rating all the matches on my all-time WWE list.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Someone explain to me why this is necessary: (courtesy of WWEDVDNews)

_WWE have confirmed the go ahead of the *Money in the Bank Anthology* DVD, and also revealed that it will be hosted by The Miz. The news was shared today through WWE’s official Twitter feed, where they also posted up a photo of The Miz during filming. As of last word this match compilation is scheduled for October release but we’ll let you know if we receive any update indicating that it has been brought forward._

There's like 3 MITB matches that haven't been released on individual dvds. The Ladder Match sets cover most of them, not to mention the Best PPV Matches comps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pointless set.

Satan's Prison all over again.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Vince wants DAT cash. :vince


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Me? Pissing people off?

Oh christ, wait until 2morrow when you read my WM 11 review :lmao.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

THE MIZ hosting :lmao


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Pretty much my exact sentiments for that shit show, although I liked the opener alot more and hated Bundy-Taker alot more. Such a bad Wrestlemania, but not Wrestlemania I & II bad of course.
> 
> Those are the worst .
> 
> FUCK. WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE HAVE AT FIVE STARS? ANYTHING?


I have several matches that I rate 5 stars, if you want my list...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Will the MITB set include the original one? I hope it does like how Satan's Prison included NYR 2005. That said, it doesn't matter if it doesn't as that classic appears in The Ladder Match anyways.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Me? Pissing people off?
> 
> Oh christ, wait until 2morrow when you read my WM 11 review :lmao.


Nobody will mind. That show sucks. :hayley3


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Few WWE matches from 2006:

- Benoit/Regal (No Mercy) ****
- Benoit/Chavo (Survivor Series) ****
- Benoit/Chavo (Armageddon) ***1/2
- Finlay/Regal (The GAB) ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal leaves when a Chavo matches get pimped. Rats.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The only Chavo match I even consider GOOD is vs. Rey @ GAB 04. I'll check out that Benoit SS match out now. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's good. JoeRulz thought a lot higher of it than myself. 

*** for me. Swift and entertaining.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Chavo-Rey is fucking awesome, and the best thing that piece of trash Chavo ever did.

Speaking of fucking awesome, my lack of DVDs to watch at the moment since I'm in the city instead of home coupled with the fact that I just bombed an exam I'm pretty sure means I'm probably going to watch the five five star matches I haven't rewatched yet to see how it holds up.....

:jpl


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I fucking hate Chavo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I've been thinking of doing a project consisting of any matches Triple H or Chris Benoit appeared in together, be that singles, tag matches etc. Two of my favourites. Just watching and reviewing and hopefully being reminded of a few gems I haven't seen in years. After very brief contemplation, I think it'll be between 20-30 matches. Maybe more. Would anyone be interested in that? Or would I just be rambling on with no one reading?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I've been thinking of doing a project consisting of any matches Triple H or Chris Benoit appeared in together, be that singles, tag matches etc. Two of my favourites. Just watching and reviewing and hopefully being reminded of a few gems I haven't seen in years. After very brief contemplation, I think it'll be between 20-30 matches. Maybe more. Would anyone be interested in that? Or would I just be rambling on with no one reading?


Yes please. All for anything involving THE GAME.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

What are everyone's thoughts/ratings on Angle/Taker from NWO '06?

I give it *****1/4*. Definitely could have used more than one suplex; and a variation of submissions would have added to a lot to the match. Going between the Ankle Lock and the Gogoplata seemingly constantly throughout the match, got annoying quickly.

Uniquely booked ending adds a bit to it. Though the set-up for it was unnecessary and was kinda cheesy. After Angle hit the second Angle Slam, he I guess like starts to go for the pin by folding Taker's leg and pushing it down into Taker's torso; then backs out of it and blatantly puts his head between Taker's legs for the final Gogoplata. Should have just had Angle do what he did to win the match a bit earlier on with one of the other Gogoplatas. Just like Angle/Benoit RR '03, the last couple minutes are unnecessary over the top sports entertainment elements that bring it down. Extra time tacked on that really doesn't need to be there. It's a great match, just not nearly as great as I remembered.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingDio said:


> What are everyone's thoughts/ratings on Angle/Taker from NWO '06?
> 
> I give it *****1/4*. Definitely could have used more than one suplex; and a variation of submissions would have added to a lot to the match. Going between the Ankle Lock and the Gogoplata seemingly constantly throughout the match, got annoying quickly.
> 
> Uniquely booked ending adds a bit to it. Though the set-up for it was unnecessary and was kinda cheesy. After Angle hit the second Angle Slam, he I guess like starts to go for the pin by folding Taker's leg and pushing it down into Taker's torso; then backs out of it and blatantly puts his head between Taker's legs for the final Gogoplata. Should have just had Angle do what he did to win the match a bit earlier on with one of the other Gogoplatas. Just like Angle/Benoit RR '03, the last couple minutes are unnecessary over the top sports entertainment elements that bring it down. Extra time tacked on that really doesn't need to be there. It's a great match, just not nearly as great as I remembered.




****1/2. Absolutely loved the counters and finish to this match.Didn't make taker look weak. 


Such a shame this wasn't at WM 22 instead of NWO


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker vs Angle - NWO - ★★★★★



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I've been thinking of doing a project consisting of any matches Triple H or Chris Benoit appeared in together, be that singles, tag matches etc. Two of my favourites. Just watching and reviewing and hopefully being reminded of a few gems I haven't seen in years. After very brief contemplation, I think it'll be between 20-30 matches. Maybe more. Would anyone be interested in that? Or would I just be rambling on with no one reading?


Anything involving BENOIT is very welcome by me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Angle NWO 06 was another match I watched a few days ago. Sits at ****3/4. Classic, Angle's best match and Taker's best non-HBK match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I'd give Taker/Angle at No Way Out a ****3/4. Love the match from start to finish. Such a shame that this match didn't happen at WrestleMania 22 and we got that atrocious Triple Threat match between Kurt Angle, Mysterio, and Orton instead but I digress.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Rawk said:


> Taker/Angle NWO 06 was another match I watched a few days ago. Sits at ****3/4. Classic, *Angle's best match* and Taker's best non-HBK match.


Thoughts on Angle/Austin Summerslam 01?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yes please. All for anything involving THE GAME.





Choke2Death said:


> Anything involving BENOIT is very welcome by me.


Good to hear. (Y) 

I'll have a big check through tomorrow of what matches it will consist of. I should have quite a few since there's going to be a lot from 2000.

As for Taker/Angle from NWO, I think I had that at *****3/4* on last watch. Superb match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

1999 Rejex said:


> I'd give Taker/Angle at No Way Out a ****3/4. Love the match from start to finish. Such a shame that this match didn't happen at WrestleMania 22 and we got that atrocious Triple Threat match between Kurt Angle, Mysterio, and Orton instead but I digress.




Don't get me started. I had tickets for wrestlemania 22 way before the 06 rumble. Seeing mysterio win and undertaker returning at the rumble setting up taker/angle made me almost light my tickets on fire.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

At least I don't rate it as low as Meltzer with ****** haha.

Yeah, Taker/Angle really should have happened at 'Mania, and could have had Angle/Mysterio at NWO. Which of course means Mysterio not winning the belt till sometime much later, if at all, but whatever about that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone have a request for something for me to watch and review? Pretty bored tonight.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Starcade 98 that will keep u busy


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Anyone have a request for something for me to watch and review? Pretty bored tonight.


 2012 RAW Christmas episode :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Last Man Standing ; Fully Loaded 2000)_

Dear Jesus, what a fucking war. Re-watched this to see if it still held up at five stars and BAH GAWD that Trips performance gets me every single fucking time. The way he rips Jericho's bandage off and attacks the ribs, staying in control for a majority of the match until Jericho finally starts to unleash his attack in which this escalates into a full out brawl. Just the little things that Trips does in this one makes it a special, special match ; from kissing Stephanie after suplexing Jericho on the concrete floor, to taking out Jericho in the ring and doing what would later become Eddie Guerrero's trademark lying across the turnbuckle spot. No idea why this is never in the conversation for one of the greatest matches ever as it certainly is the best match from either man at this point (gonna re-watch Foley-HHH in a little bit to see how it holds up of course) and it has all of what many would consider to be perfect qualities ; it was brutal, the psychology was some of the greatest EVER, Jericho sold extremely well, and it has one of the most wonderfully executed finishes that I've ever seen.

Currently my 5th greatest WWF/WWE match ever. AMAZING. WATCH. THIS. NOW.

*******


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

96powerstroker said:


> Starcade 98 that will keep u busy


Oh HELLS no. Don't have it anyway. 

But thanks for the idea, think I'm gonna watch some WCW now. Maybe Slamboree '97...



Oliver-94 said:


> 2012 RAW Christmas episode :lmao


:lol



KingOfKings said:


> _Triple H vs Chris Jericho (Last Man Standing ; Fully Loaded 2000)_
> 
> Dear Jesus, what a fucking war. Re-watched this to see if it still held up at five stars and BAH GAWD that Trips performance gets me every single fucking time. The way he rips Jericho's bandage off and attacks the ribs, staying in control for a majority of the match until Jericho finally starts to unleash his attack in which this escalates into a full out brawl. Just the little things that Trips does in this one makes it a special, special match ; from kissing Stephanie after suplexing Jericho on the concrete floor, to taking out Jericho in the ring and doing what would later become Eddie Guerrero's trademark lying across the turnbuckle spot. No idea why this is never in the conversation for one of the greatest matches ever as it certainly is the best match from either man at this point (gonna re-watch Foley-HHH in a little bit to see how it holds up of course) and it has all of what many would consider to be perfect qualities ; it was brutal, the psychology was some of the greatest EVER, Jericho sold extremely well, and it has one of the most wonderfully executed finishes that I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


Well sum bitch, I need to watch that sucker again. Haven't seen it in over 10 years...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was actually blown away by how good it is.

I'd go out on a limb and perhaps say that it's my favorite ending to a match ever, just the body language of The Game and how he expresses how he's feeling just through his actions, a lost art by most performers today (even Triple H :lol). My current MOTY for 2000, and I honestly don't see Foley-HHH surpassing it unless it holds up AMAZINGLY.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Has the Jericho/Triple H Fully Loaded match ever been released on DVD? I've been looking for it for years, and never seen it anywhere.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alright, here comes a bunch of reviews, _3 at a time_...

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002:* **1/2. After a good and a great showcase, third time's "the charm", as this was nothing more than decent. May I note that this was a title unification match, as Hunter held the World Title and Kane held the Intercontinental Title - stupid move if it didn't meant that Kane was winning and the IC Title wouldn't be buried. Of course, the whole thing is memorable for the Katie Vick mess, but let's try to erase that from our memories forever. Trips and Kane never had good chemistry with each other and this was no different, as Trips was half-assing and quite off that night, and Kane couldn't get it on place either. Decent match that had its moments, like the 1000000000th burial of the SAT (Spanish announce table), but I wouldn't recommend.

*Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002:* ****3/4. First ever Elimination Chamber, and still the GOAT one. The main factor about that is that, being the premiere one, nobody knew what to expect out of it. Was it going to live to its massive hype? How intimidating the structure really was when it had taken its physical shape? And what about Shawn Michaels - he who came back to wrestle HHH at SummerSlam after 5 years in the shelf and won, only to be attacked and put in a wheelchair? Well, here's the answer to the 1st of those questions: sure as hell did. It was painfully obvious that many there (i.e. RVD, Kane, Booker) didn't stood a chance at winning, but they still brought a lot of intrigue into the contest. The Chamber looked thirsty for blood and carnage, much to the amazement of the MSG crowd, who was watching the whole deal in a collective awe. The drama, the storytelling and the intensity were beautiful. And the closing 5-minutes and subsequent aftermath? Terrific. If you're a fan of "beautiful brutality", you'll drool for this.

*HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002:* ***1/4. This dream match had PPV buys written all over it, at least at the time given. Though it was wasted on Raw, but hey, positive is that it was good. Once again, a great job was made out of the circumstances (HBK's 1st traditional Singles Match after his comeback, and a DQ finish to work with). Crowd was intense too. Nothing else to say.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*The Shield vs. John Cena, Ryback, and Sheamus - Elimination Chamber 2013 ***1/2*

Fun tag team match. The Shield showcased their teamwork and unity really well in this match, especially when they were hammering down on Cena. I liked how JBL pointed out how their teamwork and cohesiveness has benefited them and how they're beating down a 10 time WWE Champion in Cena, making them look like a legitimate threat to the WWE. Things get frantic towards the end with everyone attacking each other but the best part came when Roman Reigns gave Sheamus the mother of all spears through the barricade. Crowd was hot for this match, it was fun to watch, and John Cena actually lost cleanly lol
*
The Shield vs. Chris Jericho, Ryback, and Sheamus - WWE Raw 2/18/13 ***1/4*

Again, fun tag team match, this time with Chris Jericho on board. I liked the very beginning where Ryback smothered Rollins in the corner and Jericho tried to calm him down, showing Ryback's frustration on not getting a number on The Shield. The Shield's teamwork was displayed really well in this match yet again with Cole bringing up how their teamwork has led to their success as a cohesive unit. I liked the callback where Ryback had Rollins for the Shellshock but Reigns speared him so Rollins could get the pin, the same thing that happened the night before. Overall, fun tag team match to watch.

BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Trips vs Jericho Fully Loaded is probably the greatest Last Man Standing match of all time. Man, why doesn't WWE book midcard vs main eventer matches anymore? Sure, we all know the midcard guy isn't going to win but a midcard losing to the company's top guy does more for him that losing or winning to another midcard. Point is, midcard vs midcard matches do nothing in the long run because it's always a back and forth struggle between being over one minute, and jobbing out the other. Case and point, Damien Sandow.

Why WWE does that is beyond me. Let's use Sandow as an example. So to build him we have him go over all the midcard guys. Then we introduce a new midcrad guy or because we want to push another midcard guy, sandow ends up taking a backseat and now's he's taking the 1-2-3 for about 5 other guys. Makes no freaking sense!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Has the Jericho/Triple H Fully Loaded match ever been released on DVD? I've been looking for it for years, and never seen it anywhere.


You can get it on DVD, but only on the U.S. Special Edition Triple H : That Damn Good DVD that was a limited release in 2002, I don't own it but I might if the match isn't included on the newest Triple H set that will no doubt be out later this year after his retirement. I would assume that that match and the Ironman match against Rocky that has never been released would be on there as well to boost DVD sales through the roof, especially if they involve an in depth DOC to go along with it. Those are the big two that haven't been on a DVD yet (sort of) that have a realistic chance. If there were to be a top WWF/WWE 10 matches that NEED to be on DVD soon list, Benoit would be in 8 of them for me, no joke. 

The fact that the two greatest Television matches of all time in Austin-Benoit & Austin/Game vs Benoit/Jericho won't be released on DVD REEEALLLYY pisses me off.

Trips-Jericho is one of the greatest WWF/WWE matches ever, no question. It's one of those matches that people are alot of the times too afraid to throw five stars at it due to it not being a "popular choice" for a five star match, but fuck that... Do you know what a popular choice is for a five star match? BRET VS SHAWN... Well not really... But I've seen it get the full five more times then I've seen Trips-Jericho get it, which is from two people (me and Brett Mixx.... I should really re-evaluate my life on this one).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> You can get it on DVD, but only on the U.S. Special Edition Triple H : That Damn Good DVD that was a limited release in 2002, I don't own it but I might if the match isn't included on the newest Triple H set that will no doubt be out later this year after his retirement. I would assume that that match and the Ironman match against Rocky that has never been released would be on there as well to boost DVD sales through the roof, especially if they involve an in depth DOC to go along with it. Those are the big two that haven't been on a DVD yet (sort of) that have a realistic chance. If there were to be a top WWF/WWE 10 matches that NEED to be on DVD soon list, Benoit would be in 8 of them for me, no joke.
> 
> The fact that the two greatest Television matches of all time in Austin-Benoit & Austin/Game vs Benoit/Jericho won't be released on DVD REEEALLLYY pisses me off.


Thanks. Yeah, I really hope the Jericho/HHH match is on the new Triple H set. I'm going to buy it regardless, but still. I love that match.


----------



## WeirdFatGuy (Mar 21, 2013)

Weant back and watched the Invasion again, hated how there werent many wcw wrestlers, especially in the final match, your top guy on WCW? dosent make sense.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Can't believe since I'm not going to be home until tomorrow that even though I even Foley/GAME at least like five different times, I still have to download it from a torrent... That's fucking terrible :lol.

Can't wait to re-watch team JOHN-BOY against The Shield once I cop the DVD (tomorrow hopefully). I'll be able to gain a better grasp on just how good the two "GOOD" matches from the show actually are. Don't think the Chamber's going to make four stars but I'm betting The SHIELD will. They ALWAYS do, fuck... Even that RAW 6 man with Jericho involved may be four stars on a re-watch, those guys can do no wrong in any aspect of their game at this point.

BEEEELIIIEEEVEEEEE IN THE SHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDD (Roman Reigns Voice) !!!!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wait, WWE wants to do a MITB collection? I wonder what they're going to do about the Benoit situation? Cut off any Benoit-related commentary?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/HHH LMS FL- ****1/4
Shield vs. Super friends EC- ***1/2
Shield vs. Jerifriends Raw after EC- ***3/4

I think I'm the only person to (still) prefer the Raw Shield match to the EC one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I will implore you to re watch the HHH-Jericho Last Man Standing match.

Can't think of a match with a better final few seconds, like... EVER.

_WWE Championship Match - Triple H(c) vs Cactus Jack (Street Fight ; Royal Rumble 2000)_

So here we have it ; what's usually heralded as Triple H's greatest singles match ever and one of the greatest performances ever by Mick motherfuckin' Foley. This match is brutal as all fuck, with the opening chair shot being vicious and the throwdown by THE GAME of the chair being as intense as I've ever seen him. These two go out there and KILL each other, and I'd be a fool even as a Trips mark to not give MAIN PROPS to Mick for his performance here. He keeps the story straightforward, simple, and inspirational as he takes on a guy who he should have no business being in the ring with at this stage in his career (kayface of course). This match is infamous for it's ending amongst casuals as being one of the most brutal spots in company history (and OUCH indeed), but what it should be remembered for is Foley bringing the goods and selling for Triple H like a madman, making The Game look ten times more legit after this match then he did before hand.

You know what? This is actually a pretty big carry job by Foley here, in the sense that he's like 75 percent of what makes this match awesome... But the heel mannerisms that The Game brought to the table really wrapped this one up really nice for me, and I'll always love it and appreciate it for the career boosting match it was for Hunter. There were a few minutes of slower paced "garbage wrestling" that keeps this from being the dull five for me, but things like that gash on Hunter's calf all the way to the callback to the 99 Royal Rumble are subtle digs as to why it should be universally heralded. Falls out of my top 10 ever, but in my top 20 WWF/WWE matches ever for sure and the second best match of 2000 for me.

If you haven't seen it (actually, if you haven't seen it... DA FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!), make it a point in doing so NOW.

***** 3/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> I will implore you to re watch the HHH-Jericho Last Man Standing match.
> 
> Can't think of a match with a better final few seconds, like... EVER.


I actually did re-watch it a couple of days ago in part of my project. I'll try to recall what I thought...

Used to be at ****1/2, now at ****1/4. Can't really explain why I lowered except there were a few matches on re-watch I felt were better that I didn't prior that I didn't feel the need to raise to ****1/2. As far as my thoughts, the action and limb work was solid by HHH, the selling by Jericho was fantastic, the start of the match was great with Jericho going right for HHH, and the finish was indeed amazing with how HHH just narrowly ended up winning the match. It's finishes like that we don't see with heels anymore that could really put them over well, and granted, HHH was a main event heel against a mid-card face so even back then they wouldn't really do something like that to put over a mid-card heel over a main event face, but it's still worth noting that Jericho looked good taking the fight to HHH like that. 

My biggest gripe with the match is the pacing and how long it felt by the end of it. I understand in LMS there's going to be pauses in the action so the ref can make the 10 count, but even outside of it for the beginning of the match it went from being slow at points, to quick, to slow, and it just annoyed me a bit. Some other silly things I found like HHH getting right back up less than a second later after Jericho hit a hip-toss (think that's what it's called), and then rather than staying on Jericho while he's trying to cover just argues with the ref, and then later right as he's about to hit the pedigree on the chair, he pushes the ref down which was stupid on two levels. One how was he gonna win the match after he hit the pedigree, and two, don't remember the ref touching him beforehand aside from in the instance above where I believe HHH touched him/lightly shoved him and the ref shoved him back. I may be getting some things mixed up though. I understand it played into the story at the time with what happened in the title match and the whole issue with HHH and the referees, but it still bothered me more than I liked the fact they used that to play into the story. Maybe there's a piece I missed in the feud where HHH said he cared more about hurting Jericho as opposed to winning? Meh, the video I watched for it started a few seconds before the bell rang and I didn't get to see the video package, so who knows. I don't remember the feud that well. 

But yeah, the negatives aren't really anything that huge and don't think I hate the match or anything. I think it's a fucking ace match with what I said about Jericho's selling and HHH's limb work. Some great false finishes and an incredible ending. It used to be at ****1/2 and it's really only lowered because the whole point of me going back to re-do my list was to lower the amount of matches I have higher up, as I think I had 100+ matches at ****1/4, and 50-60+ at ****1/2 and above, which just feels like a lot more than it should be... plus there were/are a lot of matches I needed to re-watch. And so as I said earlier, I lowered it due to feeling on re-watch a couple of matches were better in the lower rating. Call it a stupid system, but that's just how I roll. I'm pretty sure it actually ranks around or higher than it did before due to the fact many other ****1/2 matches were dropped even lower. I have it at number 26 right now. Take that for what it's worth. It's just I'm not giving out STARZ as easily as before. 

I still do prefer Cena/Umaga RR 2007 as the GOAT LMS match, and as far as 2000 matches go, I still take Foley/HHH RR and Rock/HHH BL over Jericho/HHH.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MAD RESPECT.

That's what I'm currently doing ATM honestly, as my tastes have changed so much and I'm much harsher on matches then I used to be. I currently went from 11 five star contests to 10 five star contests and I still have a handful left to watch before moving onto the damn near close to five star matches and the four and a half star matches. Think I have like 53 matches in WWF/WWE history @ ***** 1/2+*?

That Fully Loaded match is Triple H's magnum opus. If somebody wanted deep reasoning behind why Triple H at his best was one of the greatest primes ever I'd pop on that match to show them because REMEMBER ; Jericho in 2000 hadn't fully adapted to the WWF/WWE style and believe it or not sucked pretty bad compared to alot of guys, kind of like Punk in 2006-2008ish where he was GOOD but he never had any classic or AWESOMELY GREAT matches.

I'll take that "FAVORITE ENDING" claim away though, as that distinction goes to and will always go to Triple H vs Batista in the Cell @ Vengeance 2005, another Top 25 match ever from where I sit. That moment was probably the highest amount of excitement and suspense I've ever achieved from watching wrestling, it was fantastic and a huge reason as to why it's my 2005 MOTY. It happens so fast that within that 2 second span where he raises the hammer about to bring it down, you can feel the adrenaline rush and the suspense better than ever, it's an amazing ending to an amazing match and one of the greatest Triple H performances ever.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

You think the Jericho match is better than the Foley match from the Rumble? Hmm.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I understand how unpopular that opinion is, don't worry :lol.

I just don't think it's better than Foley-HHH, I think it's better than HHH-HBK-Benoit, Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (WM XXV anyways), and every single WWF/WWE match in history besides FOUR as of now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WCW Bash at the Beach 1997

*Wrath & Mortis vs. Glacier & Ernest "The Cat" Miller - *** 1/2
_Such a bossy little tag match. Tons of fun with a couple awesome spots. WHO BETTA!?

_*Cruiserweight Championship
*Chris Jericho (c) vs. Ultimo Dragon - ***
_Somewhat overrated affair. Purely an exhibition of moves & spots but the selling was really poor. They just kept running through sequences way too fast and crammed everything in as fast as they could. Has its moments though, despite a pretty quiet crowd. This is on the 'Wrestling's Highest Flyers' set.
_
The Steiner Brothers vs. The Great Muta & Masahiro Chono - ** 1/4_
This WOULD'VE been great... if it was 1992. Chono & Muta were past their prime (especially Chono, my god he was awful at this time) and there was way too much stalling. There's some pretty good action down the stretch but the finish is a little silly, as Chono just sits there and watches Muta get pinned.

_*Lucha Libre Rules
*Hector Garza, Juventud Guerrera, & Lizmark Jr. vs. Psychosis, La Parka, & Villano IV - *** 3/4
_:mark: I so love this match, probably seen it a good 10 times. Nonstop action from bell to bell with some breathtaking sequences and great commentary from Tenay._ _This is also on Wrestling's Highest Flyers._

*Retirement Match
*Chris Benoit vs. Kevin Sullivan - *** 1/4
_Really fun brawl here with a swerve ending, although these two always seem to have the same match against each other. They basically destroy the whole beach set in the process._

So yeah, I refuse to watch the top half of the card. No thanks.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well I just shocked myself. I re-watched Angle/Michaels for about the third time and holy shit I enjoyed the hell out of it. Damn, a well deserved ****3/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That STEINER BROTHERS match isn't awesome?

.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> Austin/Benoit didn't face at BL 2001, and that would be the rematch of WM17 you're referring to between Rock and Austin, which happened on the following Raw I believe in a cage where Austin and HHH joined forces.
> 
> Anyway, list is pretty good. Batista/HHH Backlash wasn't anything special, though a bit better than their Mania match, but the HIAC is what made the feud worth it. And Punk/Jericho WM28 I'd put a fair bit over their Extreme Rules encounter, which was very good as well, but not on the level of the Mania match.
> 
> Guerrero/Mysterio SD June 2005- ****1/4. Awesome match. Best in the feud.


Sorry I'm just now answering this, but just got in from work. 

I think you misread. ANGLE (not Austin) faced Benoit at Backlash in an Ultimate Submission at Backlash, THEN they did a two out of three falls at Judgement Day.

I have haven't seen any of the three, but their encounter at the RR 2003 is class.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Watching SuperBrawl '91. Man, this undercard sucks so far.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Sorry I'm just now answering this, but just got in from work.
> 
> I think you misread. ANGLE (not Austin) faced Benoit at Backlash in an Ultimate Submission at Backlash, THEN they did a two out of three falls at Judgement Day.
> 
> I have haven't seen any of the three, but their encounter at the RR 2003 is class.


Ah, my bad. Yeah, did misread, though it makes sense as I found the fact Austin/Benoit one-on-one didn't happen at a PPV (from my recollection) so it confused me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching CM Punk vs John Cena @ Money in the Bank 2011 now, let's see how this holds up shall we?

:cena3 unk2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Can't believe since I'm not going to be home until tomorrow that even though I even Foley/GAME at least like five different times, I still have to download it from a torrent... That's fucking terrible :lol.
> 
> Can't wait to re-watch team JOHN-BOY against The Shield once I cop the DVD (tomorrow hopefully). I'll be able to gain a better grasp on just how good the two "GOOD" matches from the show actually are. Don't think the Chamber's going to make four stars but I'm betting The SHIELD will. They ALWAYS do, fuck... Even that RAW 6 man with Jericho involved may be four stars on a re-watch, those guys can do no wrong in any aspect of their game at this point.
> 
> BEEEELIIIEEEVEEEEE IN THE SHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDD (Roman Reigns Voice) !!!!


The match is on Dailymotion

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqm394_triple-h-vs-mick-foley-at-royal-rumble-2000-1-3_sport


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I downloaded it and watched it first... I'm being reduced to watching Punk-Cena on YOUTUBE (another match I own), but I made sure to find an HD version since if it wasn't just like the original I wouldn't be able to grade it the same way.

FUCK. CENA IS ON HIS A-GAME.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> That STEINER BROTHERS match isn't awesome?
> 
> .


Nah, not in '97 holmes. But speaking of awesome, here's a nice little gem:

*WCW World Television Championship
*Fit Finlay (c) vs. Chris Benoit (_Slamboree '98_)

It's Benoit vs. Finlay, how can it not be great? Total Finlay show on this one as he wrestles an almost perfect match. There's some great mat wrestling in the early going and a funny moment where Benoit actually chops one of Finlay's straps completely off his shoulder. Finlay eventually takes control and dominates most of the match with weardown holds. Remember that spot in the Benoit/Jericho Ladder match where Benoit dives out headfirst into the chair? Well THIS MATCH HAD IT FIRST.  Really though, I thought that was cool as hell. That was one of the couple times where it really looked like Benoit would make a comeback but Finaly cut him off at the VERY last second (beautiful counter on the triple Germans too). I won't spoil the finish for anyone who wants to watch but I will say it tied in very nicely to the current storyline and the last desperation pinfall was really well done. Total gem here that I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention. Really great crowd too. **** 3/4*

I watched it on VHS, but here's a youtube link for anyone interested:





As great as the match was, it might just get topped by the next contest on the show. GEMS


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Catching up some discussion here. Just sat down and watch Trips/Jericho Last Man Standing from Fully Loaded.

Holy cow. First off, the first 13 1/2 minutes or so is one sided ass whipping. When Jericho hits the low blow, things finally even up. Trips must have bladed big time, because right after that first chair shot, he's covered from face down to sternum with blood. 

The selling in this match is unreal. Even after Trips worked on Jericho's ribs forever, when Jericho is getting his offense in, he's sells the rib injury after EVERY move he makes. 

I like the monitor spot, where both guys get a shot at the other at the same time. 

Am I the only one who loves when Trips does his over-the-turnbuckle-jump whenever he's whipped in. Similar to how HBK did his "upside-down-inside-out" as JR called it.

I also loved the finish. The suplex through the announce table (apparently the spanish table had been wrecked earlier in the night) then Trips getting up as soon as the ref hits 10, only to fall back down. Still selling. 

I don't do star ratings, except once, but I'd probably give this bad boy at least a solid ****. There didn't seem to be too much downtime in this match, except of course for counts.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YOU'RE A STAR OFF :gaga.

Legit though, everybody has their own opinions, mine's just superior to everyone else's.

:cena3


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I haven't watched the Jericho/HHH match since I ordered it on PPV that night. I obviously don't remember everything about it, but I remember watching it with a friend of mine and both of us being equally blown away by it. I think at the time I had it at ****1/2-****3/4 (Yes, I was old enough to rate matches back then, at 17 years old, haha). I was so blown away by it that every year when new WWE DVDs come out, I can't believe that match has been passed over so many times compared to other matches that are out there numerous times over. I honestly didn't even know it was on the old Triple H one until KOK told me alittle while ago. But a match that phenomenal being on only 1 DVD in the pas 12.5 years compared to various other matches being on multiple DVDs is ludicrous. It better be on a set very, very soon.

Anyways, haven't seen it since then, so my rating can change. I think there is a chance it could move up to ***** for me, but I have to see it again to refresh my memory a bit. If my rating does change, it'll be going up, not down, that much I am pretty sure of.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> YOU'RE A STAR OFF :gaga.
> 
> Legit though, everybody has their own opinions, mine's just superior to everyone else's.
> 
> :cena3


:jpl Because it has this guy, I'd tack on three or four more stars.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No mere mortal is a match for TERRA RYZING.

Not even CM Punk in CHICAGO.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Thoughts on my latest watch of Trip/Jack since it was brought up (watched it couple of weeks ago or so):



Spoiler: boom



HHH v Cactus Jack (WWF 1/23/00)
This is a great match to me and I'd be surprised if this was never a great match to me, but my opinion of it SOOOOORT of lowers on each watch. Reiterating: this is a great match, but I doubt it's going to hit the top 25 mark I had it pegged for on last watch. I'm almost more convinced this is the Mick Foley Show this time around. Trip put in a good showing and I'll give him credit for practically everything he did here (excluding the way he kind of wobbled around, acting all tired and dizzy.....he isn't very good at it), but Foley just totally Foley'd this match. Truth be told, in some ways I don't think he could have really had this match with anyone in the company but Trip; I mean no matter how silly Jim Ross saying "HHH is perhaps the most technical Champion the WWF have ever had" sounds, it's a story I have to get into to really get behind this as a whole. Do I think HHH is a technical marvel? Well fuck no, but if it's presented in a kayfabe way and this 'technical champion' is put in a situation where he has to compete in a street fight with the King of Hardcore, then, shit, I'll get behind it. But MAN does Foley kill it here. This is pretty much the best possible WWF weapon prop-fest brawl and Foley just knows how to use each weapon in a way that doesn't look overzealous. I never get the sense that he's trying to be this hardcore loony. I get the sense he IS a hardcore loony and wants to tear the crap out of his opponent with all the weapons he can find. Barbed wire bat, wooden stacks, chair, stack of bricks, thumbtacks, announce table, he'll use anything. I also love how this has a sort of a unique layout. In a match like this you might get an elongated period where the babyface sells, so seeing the 'technical' champion's outbursts be thwarted by the King of Hardcore's resilience is really a great way to make a match like this. Jack would beat the shit out of Trip, sending him into shit and pounding his face to let him know he's in Jack's house, MOTHERFUCKER! HHH would then usually have to create space and have a breather before finding something like a chair or the ring-bell to whack Foley's noggin' with, but Foley kept firing back. Thought Mick did a pretty tremendous job of not making that shit look no-selly either, he was walking around the whole match huffing and with this almost glassy look to his psycho eyes. Even more of a feat considering some of the whack-job bumps he took on the steel steps. His running-into-steps-and-flipping-over-them bump is a thing of beauty that will stand the test of fucking time. The hand-cuffs spot may not (in wrestling in general), but I thought it was done in this match as well as anywhere else. Even when Trip had Foley locked in those things and was delivering some PHAT ASS chair shots, Foley was reversing his attempts with drop-toe holds and that fucking marvellous low-blow headbutt. I still don't get nor like the Rock's run-in, but it is what it is. The finish is nuts. Kicking out of a pedigree may have not been as rare then as it had been later on (correct me if I'm wrong?), but it really felt like a huge, huge moment and really the only semblance of a finishing stretch the match actually had. Trip driving Foley into the thumbtacks is really the perfect finish. In some matches you'll get 'well it didn't work the first time, why would it work the second?' This match had 'well it didn't work the first time, but it worked when he added five hundred spiked objects'. Another really cool thing is that HHH's head was bloody as hell through most of the match and Jack's wasn't at all until this finish, so Trip winning cleanly really felt well-earned, almost like a Star Making Moment (which I guess it was). This may have gone down in my mind over time, but it'll always just be "something" to me, and should still finish pretty high.



I'd take it over HHH/Jericho in a heartbeat tbh. Definitely HHH's best match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed, The Rock should have stayed the fuck away from this match.

This was a personal battle between Foley and HHH.... The Rock should have just stayed in the Rumble match and kept his face out of this one, don't know why they booked it that way, they might as well come out and say "HEY! TRIPLE H IS WINNING AND WE'RE GETTING TRIPS-ROCK!"


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It felt so random. Maybe I need to catch some WWF TV from before the Rumble, but I've never heard of anything suggesting why he even came out. The announcers usually reference that stuff, but they didn't, so I'm completely lost each time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*
#1 Contender's Cruiserweight Battle Royal
*_WCW Slamboree_ _'98_

:lmao Chris Jericho is the current champ and decides he wants to do all the introductions for the participants. Pure gold, let me tell ya. He claims Chavo Guerrero is from "El Paso, Mexico", not to mention El Dandy winning a Lou Ferrigno look-alike contest. QUAZI-JUICE GUERRERA. "This guy is Silver King, if he wins 12 more matches he'll be upgraded to Golden King" Oh my god I could not stop laughing. So funny.

Oh yeah, there's a battle royal going on. Nothing special really. Lenny Lane & Psychosis are the standouts by default since they just flew around everywhere. The final two comes down to Juventud & a masked raggedy lookking guy named Cyclopes. They stand there and stare at each other for a minute until Juvy shakes his hand and jumps over the ropes, giving Cyclopes the win! Instantly the crowd knows somethin's up and starts going wild, as this character takes his mask off to reveal himself as... DEAN MALENKO! Crowd goes apeshit!!!

*WCW Cruiserweight Championship
*Chris Jericho (c) vs. Dean Malenko

Malenko turns around to a STUNNED Chris Jericho and starts puttin the boots to him. Pretty good little 7 minute match here. It's not really about the match(es) though, it's just about the angle and the entertainment value. Watch the above video for a great laugh.

**** 1/4*​


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I'll throw ***** at both HHH/Cactus and HHH/Jericho. 

Triple H in 2000 was on another level, I echo all positive comments about The Game from that year. Vs. Benoit at No Mercy is a personal favorite of mine as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Cena still rocks. No review even needed for this one as it's so recent that everybody knows why it's amazing and I don't even feel the need to explain it. I guess I could talk about the character work of John Cena and the transition his character makes from the beginning of the match up until the end here he sticks to his morals and it ultimately costs the company it's title and Cena himself his job (or so we thought of course). This replaces HBK/Taker as my ultimate "EXCITEMENT/ADRENALINE" match, as the near falls and suspense might actually be THE BEST EVER. 

Fucking hate how people talk about the match not being worked clean enough, go eat a fucking dick. This is storytelling at it's finest, with two determined yet parallel characters going at it with neither refusing to lose. Punk gets over and Cena deals with the guilt which leads to one of the greatest moments in WWE history, and launches Punk into the 1A position in the company that hasn't been able to be occupied in a really long time.

OH YEAH... Take out the crowd and it's still five stars to me, it's THAT FUCKING GOOD.

Falls in at number 7 of my greatest WWF/WWE matches currently ATM, with a few more re watches to be made tomorrow to wrap up the re-watchings of all of my five star matches. Actually, I only have one more match to watch and I'll have completed my top 10 perhaps, and that's Bret-Austin from Survivor Series 1996... Then it's on to whatever DVD I can get my hands on next and some near five star matches on the side to continue updating the rankings for what I perceive to be the greatest WWF/WWE matches ever. By the time it's all said and done I'm still willing to bet there's 50-55 matches ***** 1/2* which FACE IT, is a shit ton less then alot of other guys have rated that high.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Officially starting to rate matches with stars. I'm pretty new at this, so bear with me. I started with Mania 19, since I've been told it was such a stacked card, and figured it wouldn't be too difficult to rate. So here we go.

The rumors were true, VERY stacked card. Unfortunately I didn't see Hogan/McMahon or Team Angle/Los Guerreros since I couldn't find them on YouTube or Daily Motion (no DVDs or Torrents). In my opinion, there were no DUDs. Even the Divas match was good, and though I expected less from ShowTrain vs Taker, it was decent for what it was. I'll leave out match comments, since there's no hope of me keeping anything brief, especially with this card, and my notes are off the page.

Mysterio/Matt Hardy **3/4
Taker/A-Train and Big Show ***
Trish/Jazz/Victoria ** 
Team Angle/Los Guerreros - Missed
Shawn Michaels/Chris Jericho ****3/4
Booker T/Triple H *** (Finish ruined it. Took Trips forever to get the cover and Booker still didn't kick out.)
Hogan/McMahon - Missed
Rock/Austin ****
Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle ****1/2 (Brock missing the Shooting Star Press hurt my rating)


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

That's funny... the failed SSP at Safeco when Lesnar almost broke his neck actually improves my rating.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

FluxCapacitor said:


> The only Chavo match I even consider GOOD is vs. Rey @ GAB 04. I'll check out that Benoit SS match out now. (Y)


Well, these two matches were really good. The SS match was only 9 min long, and it rocked. And his opponent is fucking BENOIT, 'nuff said, don't you know that guy turned shit into gold? Although, Chavo played the aggressor role really fine.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project
*
*HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002:* ***. This is my most generous possible towards this match, only because it was fun as bathbloody hell. Otherwise, it was a potential DUD here, folks. Why, you ask? Simply put: imagine a car journey only on roads full of rocks, snakes, cannibals, etc., one that you'd barely survive, but still wanted more because you thought it was great fun. That's what this match is. From random bladings, to HORRENDOUS psychology, to HBK randomly and out of nowhere turning into Mick Foley, to the fact that this set-up the HHH/Steiner feud... Good Lord. It had the obligation of being a way better match than it was. Ugh.

*HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003:* DUD. Oh boy, here comes the infamity. Now, may I take my time to say it: this is NOT the worst World Heavyweight Title match ever. Close, but definitely not THE worst. In my opinion there are three other matches brutal enough to outdo this. That said, this was a chore to sit through and I was so embarassed at just watching I couldn't believe I'm a wrestling fan. The 1st half of these LOOOOONG 20 fucking minutes was boring, like really boring. The 2nd half is legit hilarious, though. I LOL'ed at some bits, like Steiner tripping, the 10000 Suplexes, the crowd reaction Steiner was getting at whatever he did, the overblading of Hunter... that list goes on. HHH/HBK was so bad it was good. This was so AWFUL it was hysterical (and embarassing) to watch. And you'd think we all hated it so much we wouldn't be getting a rematch? Not so fast...

*HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003:* 1/4*. Oh yes. You bet your bottom they did. And more - HHH/Booker at WM was their back-up plan after finally realizing this wasn't worth it anymore, otherwise you'd be getting a "classic" in HHH/Steiner III at Mania 19. Thankfully though, putting an end to the debate once and for all, it wasn't as bad as the Royal Rumble one. As you probably guessed by comparing both my ratings for them. It wasn't as slow, sloppy, boring and all over the place as the Rumble. It was given far less time too, and the ending wasn't a DQ even if it was cheap. However, it's still a HHH/Steiner match. It was simply a much lesser evil than their 1st match, but still a big time evil. Good thing is that, from here on, it can't get worse than this...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I finally watched the Cena/Mysterio WWE Title match from Raw in 2011 last night. Really great. Some superb counters and a surprising amount of ground work from both men. My only fault with it was that it ended a little abruptly. If that had got another 5-10 minutes of the same quality I'm sure we would be looking at potentially match of the year. Still, I'll give it *****1/4*.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Couple of excellent matches i have uploaded if anyone need them:

John Cena vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 26.04.2004:

https://hotfile.com/dl/199211215/028d1ba/John_Cena_vs_Undertaker_-_Smackdown_24.06.2004.avi.html

---------------------------------------------------

The Rock vs Chris Benoit (Fully Loaded 2000)

Tagged Classics version Unblurred/Unedited

https://hotfile.com/dl/199222925/a6201a5/The_Rock_vs_Chris_Benoit_(Fully_Loaded_2000).avi.html

(Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *WCW Bash at the Beach 1997
> 
> *Wrath & Mortis vs. Glacier & Ernest "The Cat" Miller - *** 1/2
> _Such a bossy little tag match. Tons of fun with a couple awesome spots. WHO BETTA!?
> ...


****
****
***
***3/4
****1/4

God DAMN I loved Jericho vs Ultimo. Wow, brilliant exhibition of hold for hold & counter wrestling among the two.

Favorite part of the lucha match was Villano IV's fall from the top rope and Lizmark Jr. stares at him for looking like an idiot. Match would have been better if Super Calo was in the match, imo. He was building a feud with La Parka at the time, yet WCW randomly slapped Lizmark Jr in it. Idiots. Although, I would have preferred Garza out overall. Guy sucks outside of the Torneo spot. Seriously. Watch his work. All he fuxin does is counters or evades getting hit by someone. NO DAMN MOVES.

Steiners match was solid, if not pretty good for me. Finishing spot was my favorite part. It was nuts. :lol

Opener...my stars where in the hell did that come from? Awesome, awesome, awesome action by all four. Mortis owning Glacier :mark:

Benoit vs Sullivan destroyed it yet again. Hate erupts in the midst of another full blown war. Unbelievable match. Loveloveloveloved it. Jimmy Hart being in the lifeguard tower only to be knocked over by Benoit was hilarious and AWESOME.

PPV is incredible as a whole. Well, outside of Mongo vs Jarrett. You should have watched the main event. Ignore star ratings and revel in the honest to goodness entertainment of the match. Rodman rules. Too bad they didn't have the same luck come 1998.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Good lord, you really did love that show.  I prefer Benoit & Sullivan's match from GAB '96 a little more. Fucking love the bathroom brawling. I fast forwarded through the last 3 matches, so I at least got the idea of what was going on. Seeing the main event went 22 minutes was an instant no-no.

When was the last time you watched Jericho/Ultimo? I used to think highly of it too but then I noticed they no sold everything. Ultimo gets thrown from the top rope to the floor and then just stands back up and dropkicks Jericho on his way down. Plus they had that botched top rope dropkick spot.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19:* ***1/4. The 1st World Title apparence on the Showcase of the Immortals, and it was a good one. Like I said in my HHH/Steiner II review, be glad that you got this Plan-B like feud into the PPV or otherwise you'd be getting the third round of that "classical" feud. Even though this feud wasn't really that great either when you consider the road it took. The match itself was alright, nothing spectacular or anything but good nonetheless. There were some sloppy moments, and the match was a little too long, not to mention the HORRIBLE finish, but it's all made up by some really good counters and some legit mark out moments in my opinion, like the Indian Deathlock and the Harlem Hangover. For those who are wondering about a good Booker WWE match that is NOT vs. Benoit, here you have it. Good Mania debut for the World Title.

*HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003:* **3/4. Yes, for those wondering, there was a rematch between Trips and BOOKAH after WrestleMania 19, this time on Raw and with Shawn Michaels as special guest referee. The wrestling in of itself was nowhere near as memorable or as highlightful as the Mania one, but still solid. One thing I did hate was the HBK long count, which was supposed to have comedy effect I think, but did at the same time a great job in making Booker look like a weak wimp. Then again, I don't know why the 'E would have you believe that Book would actually win the title on Raw when he couldn't at Mania, but whatever. Match is alright.

*HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003:* 3/4*. Oh dear. 2003 was the year where Hunter was more Super than Super Cena. It was essentially his redemption for missing the Invasion, thus the "burial" of many WCW guys. Steiner, Jericho, Goldberg, Booker, you name 'em if it's not named Sting. And Kevin Nash belongs in the list too. This was supposed to be a brutal all-out Batista/Taker like war, I guess. But as the segment on Raw appointed, the only brutal thing about the match would probably be the quality. Granted, the aftermath was a cool sight, but the match itself was horrendous. It was slow, plodding, dull and sloppy - what a traditional HHH '03 match was, pretty much. Their Street Fight and Hell In A Cell Matches are thankfully way better, but I guess Heaven does come with a price after all...

Next, two more HHH/Nash matches, and a Title vs. Mask affair...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm enjoying your project, ATF. Good little reviews. Interesting point about HHH going up against all those former WCW guys during '03. That was definitely his weakest year. Though I do have a soft spot for the Nash HIAC match that you're about to get to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Good lord, you really did love that show.  I prefer Benoit & Sullivan's match from GAB '96 a little more. Fucking love the bathroom brawling. I fast forwarded through the last 3 matches, so I at least got the idea of what was going on. Seeing the main event went 22 minutes was an instant no-no.
> 
> When was the last time you watched Jericho/Ultimo? I used to think highly of it too but then I noticed they no sold everything. Ultimo gets thrown from the top rope to the floor and then just stands back up and dropkicks Jericho on his way down. Plus they had that botched top rope dropkick spot.


GAB was upended ever so slightly by the BATB match for me. Both are stellar in my eyes.

It's LONG, sure. Did give me fun the entire way through. I'll gladly take that Hogan match in WCW over many, many others while he was rocking the Hollywood moniker. Only time he was in the ring with Giant and it didn't make me want to punch myself with boredom.

About 2 weeks ago. I recall the botch, but all the rest didn't register on a massive level for me. Came off just as good as it always has for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF, enjoying these WHC reviews. You'll enjoy the upcoming Street Fight. Incredibly curious about this Title vs. Mask affair, don't recall it... (Y)

I feel ya, Hayley. Seen Slamboree '98? BENOIT vs. FINLAY :mark:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

WRESTLEMANIA XII

*Six Man Tag Team Match*: Jake Roberts, Yokozuna and Ahmed Johnson vs. Vader, British Bulldog and Owen Hart
Loved Camp Cornette. Face team on paper was a straaaaange assortment of individuals but they all had beef with Cornette at the time.
**1/4

*Hollywood Backlot Brawl*: Roddy Piper vs. Goldust
Piper delivers a SAVAGE close fisted punch to Goldie which still makes me cringe to this day. A very entertaining brawl which didn't need all the OJ Simpson car chase bullshit in the middle.
***

Savio Vega vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
Dibiase was still managing Austin here, and this was his first rivalry. I thought these two had great chemistry, and Savio could be very good when he wanted to. Would culminate in the much better Strap Match at IYH: Beware Of Dog two months later.
**

Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. The Ultimate Warrior
Warrior's entrance takes about three thousand years. No sells the pedigree. Hunter haters will LOVE this match.
DUD

The Undertaker vs. Diesel
Big Kev was the definition of a tweener at this stage, and was already on his way out to WCW before this match took place. Decent big man match, nowt special.
**1/2

*Iron Man Match for WWF Championship*: Bret Hart (c) vs. Shawn Michaels
Well what more can be said about this? First twenty minutes is dull. Not sure it's a great idea to have the first ever IM match go fall-less. Poor old Tony Chimel continues to be the butt of the jokes by getting SCM'd on the outside. Excellent match with a great finish.
****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ATF, enjoying these WHC reviews. You'll enjoy the upcoming Street Fight. Incredibly curious about this Title vs. Mask affair, don't recall it... (Y)


Think that was Kane vs HHH, when Kane had to 'lose his mask'


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Top 20 Triple H Matches:

20.vs Chris Benoit- No Mercy 2000
19.Survivour Series 2002 EC Match
18.vs The Rock Backlash 00
17.vs HBK- RAW 2003
16.vs The Rock- Summerslam 96
15.vs Chris Benoit vs HBK- Backlash 2004
14.vs HBK- Royal Rumble 2004
13.vs HBK- Summerslam 2002
12.vs JEricho- Judgemnt Day 2002
11.vs Ric Flair- Survivour Series 2005
10.vs Cactus Jack- No Way Out 2000
9.vs The Rock- Judgment Day 2002
8. New Years Evolution 05 EC Match.
7.vs JEricho- Fully Loaded 2000
6.vs Undertaker- WM 27
5. HHH&Austin vs Benoit&Jericho- RAW 2001
4.vs Taker- WM 28
3.vs Austin- No Way Out 2001
2.vs Cactus Jack- Royal Rumble 2000
1.vs Hbk vs Benoit- WM 20


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Triple H Presents: The WCW Retirement Tour 2003, A Vince McMahon Special*

:HHH2 :vince5


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ATF, enjoying these WHC reviews. You'll enjoy the upcoming Street Fight. Incredibly curious about this Title vs. Mask affair, don't recall it... (Y)


It's the Raw match where Kane was forced to unmask after. Don't remember diddly squat about the match apart from a ton of interference at the end. Will be interesting to hear ATF's views on it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Think that was Kane vs HHH, when Kane had to 'lose his mask'





AlienBountyHunter said:


> It's the Raw match where Kane was forced to unmask after. Don't remember diddly squat about the match apart from a ton of interference at the end. Will be interesting to hear ATF's views on it.


(Y)

I kept thinking... Rey Mysterio!? Who is this person??? hahaha. Totally forgot about Kane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ATF, enjoying these WHC reviews. You'll enjoy the upcoming Street Fight. Incredibly curious about this Title vs. Mask affair, don't recall it... (Y)
> 
> I feel ya, Hayley. Seen Slamboree '98? BENOIT vs. FINLAY :mark:


Stellar match. Was almost a hidden gem for awhile. Marked at Finlay being the ORIGINATOR of the Benoit tope headfirst into the chair spot. :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Random, but watching Taker/HBK WM25. I don't think there is anyother match in company history that gets the job done like this one does in terms of excitement, the "what will happen next?" factor, and nearfalls. Watching it live, there were a couple of occasions where you thought the streak just might be over. Just a superb job by both gents. I could watch this match everyday of the week. It's almost up there with HBK/Taker HIAC for me. Maybe just a notch below, but damn close. Definitely both matches are 1 and 1A in WWF/E history for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If I'm going by my reaction while watching it live, then probably nothing compares.

Lets put it this way, if I was being recorded while I watched it: I would have won the cash prize after it got sent in to America's Funniest Home Videos.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> If I'm going by my reaction while watching it live, then probably nothing compares.
> 
> Lets put it this way, if I was being recorded while I watched it: I would have won the cash prize after it got sent in to America's Funniest Home Videos.


:lol, same here. Live, both me and a friend thought it might be over a couple of times. That, in recent years, has become the 'art' of Undertaker WM matches. Making the fans believe a couple of times during the match that the streak might be over. Not an easy thing to do, but it can still be done, if done right.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> If I'm going by my reaction while watching it live, then probably nothing compares.
> 
> Lets put it this way, if I was being recorded while I watched it: I would have won the cash prize after it got sent in to America's Funniest Home Videos.


:lol

In terms of pure excitement when watching it live and for the first time, Taker/HBK WM25 is probably the best ever. I couldn't take my eyes off it and I wish I could go back to that moment when I was watching it for the first time and experience it again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Has the Jericho/Triple H Fully Loaded match ever been released on DVD? I've been looking for it for years, and never seen it anywhere.


In case you need it:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...e-h-vs-chris-jericho-fully-loaded-2000-a.html


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Craziest reactions you've ever had to a match live ?

- Batista-GAME HIAC
- Cena-GAME Wrestlemania
- Cena-PUNK MITB

Dear god. That rage over GAME losing at Mania was insane.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

zep81 said:


> In case you need it:
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...e-h-vs-chris-jericho-fully-loaded-2000-a.html


Thanks. Love that match. A DVD release would be nice.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn was certainly credible enough to make sure the Streak would end then and there. Orton even got over to a good level vs Undertaker. So, once Shawn was signed my immediate thought was "oh no." Match only conveyed that to a greater level. Ah, when Shawn kicked out of the first tombstone. Or the head dive spot + countout tension. Even the countout was believable. Match is nothing short of amazing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Thanks. Love that match. A DVD release would be nice.


One reason why the Tagged Classics series are very useful 

_Might_ be on HHH's next set if we are lucky.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

After proposing my Triple H/Benoit project here and getting some good feedback, I've rummaged through my tapes and online and come up with a full list of every match they've appeared in together. I'm excluding the 2006 Rumble match. If I have missed anything off the list can someone please let me know?

*Smackdown 3rd February 2000: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit
*Raw 7th Febuary 2000: -* Triple H, Chris Benoit, X-Pac, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn vs The Rock, Cactus Jack, Rikishi & Too Cool
*Raw 24th April 2000: -* Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho
*Smackdown 19th July 2000: -* Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho
*Smackdown 21st September 2000: -* Triple H, The Rock & The Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle & Kane
*Smackdown 28th September 2000: -* Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle
*Raw 9th October 2000: -* Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac
*Smackdown 12th October 2000: -* Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn
*Smackdown 19th October 2000: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle vs The Rock *(*Don't have*)*

*No Mercy 2000: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit

*Smackdown 26th October 2000: -* Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko
*Smackdown 2nd November 2000: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit
*Raw 6th November 2000: -* Triple H, Chyna, Billy Gunn & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko & Eddie Guerrero *(*Don't have*)*
*Raw 21st May 2001: -* Triple H & Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho (Tag Team Championship)

*Wrestlemania 20: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (World Heavyweight Championship)
*Raw 12th April 2004: -* Triple H, Batista, Randy Orton & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin
*Backlash 2004: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (World Heavyweight Championship)
*Raw 5th July 2004: -* Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge
*Vengeance 2004: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit (World Heavyweight Championship)

*Raw 26th July 2004: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit (World Heavyweight Championship Iron Man Match)
*Raw 9th August 2004: -* Triple H & Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit & Eugene
*Raw 20th September 2004: -* Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Randy Orton & Shelton Benjamin
*Raw 11th October 2004: -* Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels & Edge
*Raw 29th November 2004: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Edge (World Heavyweight Championship)
*Raw 6th December 2004: -* Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho
*Raw 13th December 2004: -* Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho

*New Year's Revolution 2005: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs Batista (World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber)

*Raw 14th March 2005: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit
*Raw 2nd May 2005: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit

I'm pretty sure I've found everything. Like I said though, if there's anything I've missed please point it out. Also, there's two matches I've labelled since I don't own them and can't find them online anywhere. I'll have another search around the web but if anyone has these or knows a place where they can be found, please let me know.

Anyway, this should be really fun project since there's a lot of matches here that I haven't seen since they aired and obviously there's quite a few classics in here. I'll try to watch and review at least one a day and rank them overall with STARZ. It should be a lot of fun.

:jpl


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

In terms of matches that took place in a stadium, and not an arena, I can't believe HBK/Taker popped the crowd as much as they did at WM25. Football stadiums are so difficult to get a huge reaction out of because of how gigantic they are. But during that match, you could still easily hear dueling HBK/Taker chants throughout, and reactions to nearfalls and spots as if it's in a 20,000 seat arena. Crazy. They talk about that in the True Story of Wrestlemania documentary. Some guys prefer the smaller arenas because they are easier to pop and some guys prefer the stadium because of the epic feel. But when you can get the arena reaction in a huge stadium, damn, you know something special just happened.

Edit- I knew HBK wasn't going to win when the match was announced. And nor should he, IMO. I'm fine with the streak never ending. But, I have to admit, a couple of times during the match, I was like "Alright, maybe the streak is going to end tonight."


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003:* ***1/4. Might as well call it "Tag Team Street Fight", since it essentially was just that - HHH and Flair vs. Nash and HBK (similar deal with Judgment Day, though to a much better degree). Out of their "historied" saga, this right here might just be their very best. It was nasty, it told a great story, it had the support of a lively Newcastle crowd, and it had pretty much every element it needed too. They weren't gonna go all out due to them having their HIAC in just one week, and for what they had it was very good. Though I'll give you two points I LOL'ed at: Flair randomly blading in the 1st 5 minutes of the match, and HHH's psychology working over NASH'S QUAD only for Nash to simply no-sell.

*HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003:* ***. The general consensous about this one is that it was long, plodding, drawn-out and dull. 'Nuff said, right? Well, hold your horses. Admitdelly yes, it was too long and plodding. That's what you get when you put '03 Trips and 2000's Nash together. And the finish of the match had, at the time, gotten older than Ryback's squashes 2 months after they began. But, despite its chore of a pace, this Hell In A Cell was exactly what it needed to be - a bloodbath that told a great story. Everyone inside the Cell bladed (including Foley, the guest ref). The slow pace was hindered by its methodical and carnage-hungry brutality. And c'mon, who doesn't enjoy the return of the Barbie (the barbed wire bat) and the old screwdriver torture? This match is recognized as one of the worst Cells ever. Really not sure about that, but I don't think it deserves...

*HHH/Kane, Raw 6/23/2003:* **1/4. Indeed, the Title vs. Mask match I talked about is mostly remembered for the unmasking of Kane. The match itself was 9 minutes, overbooked beyond belief, and mostly a brawl dominated by Kane. I liked how Kane sold the story by sitting up and coming back from everything HHH had even stronger, knowing he needed that extra intensity to win the World Title and avoid showing his scarred face. The whole deal was nothing special at all, with a quarter of a star in my rating being thanks to the MSG crowd, which was awesome as always. It's worth a view if you're a fan of overbooked "blockbusters".

Next, Satan's Structure goes to Phoenix, the HHH era "ends", and an overlooked dream match is seen on Raw...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow, Trips brief face run in 2000 lent him to reform DX on one night to duke it out vs The Radicalz? The moment is a DISTANT memory from me. I'd love to relive it. Fact you don't own it only makes it feel ever more "rare" for the situation.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Random, but watching Taker/HBK WM25. I don't think there is anyother match in company history that gets the job done like this one does in terms of excitement, the "what will happen next?" factor, and nearfalls. Watching it live, there were a couple of occasions where you thought the streak just might be over. Just a superb job by both gents. I could watch this match everyday of the week. It's almost up there with HBK/Taker HIAC for me. Maybe just a notch below, but damn close. Definitely both matches are 1 and 1A in WWF/E history for me.


Easily my favorite match from the 'E. Also the match I've watched the most times over the past two years. At least 15.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> *World Heavyweight Championship Project*
> 
> *HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003:* ***1/4. Might as well call it "Tag Team Street Fight", since it essentially was just that - HHH and Flair vs. Nash and HBK (similar deal with Judgment Day, though to a much better degree). Out of their "historied" saga, this right here might just be their very best. It was nasty, it told a great story, it had the support of a lively Newcastle crowd, and it had pretty much every element it needed too. They weren't gonna go all out due to them having their HIAC in just one week, and for what they had it was very good. Though I'll give you two points I LOL'ed at: Flair randomly blading in the 1st 5 minutes of the match, and HHH's psychology working over NASH'S QUAD only for Nash to simply no-sell.


Never seen that one, could have sworn it was on Trips' DVD Set as i dont own the PPV :sad:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Wow, Trips brief face run in 2000 lent him to reform DX on one night to duke it out vs The Radicalz? The moment is a DISTANT memory from me. I'd love to relive it. Fact you don't own it only makes it feel ever more "rare" for the situation.


I know, I barely remember it too. It's a real shame I don't have it. I'll have to search around again.



zep81 said:


> Never seen that one, could have sworn it was on Trips' DVD Set as i dont own the PPV :sad:


That match is on the Falls Count Anywhere set if you're looking for it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Insurrextion match is quite a bit of fun. As that whole show is. The Christian vs Booker match on that night should have been given on Bad Blood instead. 15 minutes, it ends with a pinfall, and is overall much, much better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That match is on the Falls Count Anywhere set if you're looking for it.


Ah (Y) Thankyou, havnt got around to watching that set yet, knew i seen the match listed somewhere lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since we're all talking HBK/Taker in here, I may as well drop this before I go to work. I haven't finished it yet but what the hell.

*MR WRESTLEMANIAS WRESTLEMANIAS...*

:hbk

*Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle
Wrestlemania 21*

_WOW this match is a whole lot of nothing but I’ll be damned if it isn’t fun. I have no idea what the hell they were trying to do in this thing. It didn’t make a lot of sense, there wasn’t a story being told but like I said before, I found myself really enjoying it. It was completely over the top and the ankle locks reached ridiculous levels, especially the one at the end which lasted about 5 minutes or whatever it was. Talk about over kill but having said that, again, I was laughing my ass off begging for Shawn to tap and put himself out of his misery. The top rope Angle Slam was awesome. So yeah, mostly flash over substance with this match but the flash was….rather….flashy….? I don’t know, I enjoyed it and thought it was fun but it’s definitely not a masterpiece by any means. _

****1/2*

*Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon
Wrestlemania 22*

_First of all, please watch the McMahon Family Prayer backstage segment. :lmao I’m probably in the minority but I love having the McMahon’s on TV. I think they’re great and this segment was GOAT. Vince flexing with the Muscle and Fitness picture hanging in the background is just brilliant. Anywho…

I think Vince McMahon is incapable of NOT being entertaining. The man is just, I don’t even know. He cracks me the fuck up. This was brilliant for what it was. I know it got voted MOTY for 2006 and that’s vastly overrating the hell out of it but I think it’s a great match and overall fun. Vince is probably the best person to watch get his ass kicked. His facial expressions are GOAT. The jump off the ladder onto the table is a ridiculous spot. I can only imagine what it must feel like to be lying there waiting inside a trash can for that to happen. The DX teases made me mark. Later in the night HHH does the same thing and it was pretty darn cool to see that from both of them. If you’re looking for something fun and easygoing to watch then this is your match. An extra ¼ star is added at the end for Vince on the stretcher._ :lmao

****3/4*

*Shawn Michales vs. John Cena
Wrestlemania 23*

_I’ve always been in the camp who didn’t think this match was that amazing. I was sort of meh about it I suppose. Didn’t love it but didn’t necessarily hate it either. Well, I watched it for the first time in a while and my thoughts have changed I guess. I…….like it. The story they told was great and I think it picked up on the story told by HHH/Cena the year prior. Unlike that match, Cena isn’t a total newb and getting schooled by a veteran. He knows the score this time around but he isn’t facing just anybody, he’s in there with HBK and that’s what they were trying to do. Basic stuff but it worked, well, it mostly worked. One thing that annoyed me before and annoys me still is the same problem a lot of people have with this match. Cena’s non-existent selling of the leg is bad. It’s not like Shawn worked it over in a fleeting fashion. He went in hard on the leg work and we get nothing but a mere shake of the leg from Cena and then it’s forgotten about. It kind of renders the whole first half of the match pretty pointless which is a shame because from when Chioda takes that kick to the face right up to the end it’s pretty great._

******

PS – The video package is GOAT. Check it out.






*Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair
Wrestlemania 24*

_This is all about the story and the emotion evoked by that story. To see the old warrior in Ric Flair fighting for his career against one of his best friends, at the biggest show of the year against the man who has come to personify the event itself, it’s just beautiful storytelling and for my money, is the kick start to the wonderful 4 year streak story arc we would see play out up until last year. They play to their strengths here and Flair even manages to pull out some big moves which made me mark. The cross body from the top rope, the stalling suplex. Awesome. The last few minutes of this and the actual ending itself, ‘I’m sorry, I love you.’ So poignant. It’s the emotion that drives this match and 5 years later it still manages to capture me. God damn, Flair has aged about 20 years since this thing though. Jesus he looks hella old now. _

*****

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
Wrestlemania 25*

_Wow. Some performers are just special. Some moments are just special. Some matches are just special. All three of these statements ring true for this legit classic. This was the first Wrestlemania I was in attendance for and I’ll never forget my experience when watching this. Needless to say, these guys made my journey to Houston well worth the money and then some. Not everybody gets to witness matches like this live, I’ve been fortunate enough to see four (or three but I’ll get to that in a bit) of them. There are no words really. One of the greatest matches ever from two of the greatest to ever step in a WWE ring. Such beautiful symmetry with the entrances. The story itself is pretty much sublime and this match just had to happen in Texas. I just got through watching it and I want to watch it again. It never stops. From bell to bell the two of them are telling the story through their actions, expressions and moves. Taker’s need to keep his streak alive mixed with his need to beat a man who seems to have his number at every turn. HBK’s desire to end the streak, the will to win, to stay alive and as corny as it sounds, to bring light to the darkness. As an overall theme, I absolutely adore the light vs. darkness, heaven vs. hell deal. They used it to perfection and it’s only enhanced by the characters themselves. I could go on all day but I’ll stop. This match is GOAT. That is all._

*******
​
I'll update it with HBK/Jericho, HBK/Taker II and the triple threat when I get the chance along with some final thoughts and feelings about AITCH BEE KAY.

:hbk​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Top 20 Triple H Matches:
> 
> 20.vs Chris Benoit- No Mercy 2000
> 19.Survivour Series 2002 EC Match
> ...


His match with the Rock was Summerslam 98, not 96, and it's one of my favorite Triple H matches. I've got Mania 27 ranked a bit lower, and the ladder match higher. The Summerslam match with HBK must be higher. I thought Shawn was terrific in his return match, and Trips was a great heel. 

I'll work on my own list.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I can't find those two matches on my HHH/Benoit list that I don't own. So unless they happen to randomly get uploaded somewhere soon I'll probably have to leave them out of the project. I really wanted to see that Fatal 4-Way from Raw again too. Darn.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I can't find those two matches on my HHH/Benoit list that I don't own. So unless they happen to randomly get uploaded somewhere soon I'll probably have to leave them out of the project. I really wanted to see that Fatal 4-Way from Raw again too. Darn.


The SD one is here if the links work - http://www.desirulez.net/showthread.php?t=525289

Not my links btw


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ah, thanks for that! I'm downloading it now, so I'll let you know if it's all good. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> His match with the Rock was Summerslam 98, not 96, and it's one of my favorite Triple H matches. I've got Mania 27 ranked a bit lower, and the ladder match higher. The Summerslam match with HBK must be higher. I thought Shawn was terrific in his return match, and Trips was a great heel.
> 
> I'll work on my own list.


You know who really made Triple H look good? Mick Foley. I won't be bothered to make a list, but if I did no doubt most of their matches would earn a spot. Foley brought out the good side of Triple H. Not to mention all of it was during 1997 - 2000. Aka the only time I considered myself into Triple H's work. _('95 & '96 count too b/c the gimmick was quality.)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project:*

*Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003:* ***. This right here is the perfect example of a finish so fucking horrid that it transformed one that was heading to be a Match Of The Year contender, into OK at the very best. Dear God. The second ever Elimination Chamber, it was slightly more star-powered (on paper) than the 1st one, but it was much inferior too. Thanks to the finish, that is. The booking was being essentially perfect - hot Phoenix crowd heating up a match with many great counters, quick and brutal action, and then enter Goldberg. He who destroys everyone and everything in his path, beats everyone in the ring in 5 minutes! He's unstoppable! So unstoppable... that a simple sledgehammer from SuperH to the head beats him. Yay. It's a shame HHH was injured. Real shame. "Fun Fact": this was Randy Orton's in-ring PPV debut. Interesting that his 1st PPV match was for the World Heavyweight Title inside the Elimination Chamber - the pressure must've been huge.

*HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003:* *1/4. One star for the finish spawning a HUGE crowd reaction. Otherwise, this kinda really sucked. The match was billed as Title vs. Career, in which Goldberg would be gone if he lost. At this point, everyone and their mothers knew Goldberg had signed to be there a year, which means everyone and their mothers knew Goldberg was not losing this match cleanly at all. All you needed to know was how many shenanigans were going to be involved. To the massive dissapointment of many, myself included, the answer was none. Goldberg simply won the title like that, clean. No Evolution, no overbooking, no nothing. Not only that, but the match was sloppy, it was slow, both men were half-assing, and it just wasn't good. Recommendation to skip.

*Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003:* ***1/2. HBK is the man. He took a guy who in this particular run had a decent at best match with Chris freaking Jericho (Bad Blood), and had a very good match with a lot of intense drama and awesome psychology. Does he ever get all the props he deserves? Not as far as I'm concerned at least. This overlooked dream match pitted one of the biggest draws of all time against one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and for a Raw 12 minute match, it delievered. It felt like a big time match, and HBK had his working boots on, for him to carry 2003/04 Goldberg into something as good as this. Although Goldie does deserve props too - he kept up with Shawn the most he could, and delievered some awesome moves there. The ending, while a DQ, did set the bar for an aftermath that set up the storyline for the Survivor Series Main Event perfectly, and Goldberg's selling of it was superb.

_(These "next" things I've inspired myself on Top Gear )_
*Next*: HHH vs. WCW continues, a Triple Threat ensues, and one of the greatest matches in WWE TV history has a non-finish...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished watching *Bret-Austin from THE SURVIVOR SERIES*.

What a fucking match. It's the most intense "technical" contest that I can recall ever, with heavy emphasis being placed o the character work of Stone Cold Steve Austin, with The Hitman being the perfect guy for Austin to play his character off of as Bret represents the clean cut nature of the new generation era. The actual WORK here was essentially flawless, the limbwork and subsequent psychology was off the charts, the story that these two went out and told was fantastic, and they wrestled a distinct "intense-technical" style that we'll probably never see in the WWE again. If you haven't seen the match, I strongly encourage that you go out and watch it, as it's one of the greatest matches you'll ever see out of the WWE. Still five stars in my book as I have 10 five star matches remaining from the WWE, this being one of them.

Re-watched *Austin/HAITCH vs Benoit/Jericho* that time as well. Knocked it down a quarter to ***** 1/2*, but still loving it a ton at this point. I think alot of people get sucked in to DA ATMOSPHERE and overrate it a little bit, but from where I sit it's still the second best tag in company history next to Harts-Steiners. Still a top 4 match in RAW history for me and I'm looking forward to watching 123 Kid vs Bret in the near future to see can it take the number one spot. That being said, this match is out of my top 25 WWF/WWE matches for now but we'll see how everything turns out in the end.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 11 aka the nowhere near worst WM event of all time review posted on my blog .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Austin/Bret SVS 96- ****1/4 (Probably the biggest drop on my list so far. Still an awesome match but not the 5 star classic I once held it high has... fuck, used to be in my top 5, not it just breakd into my top 25).

Jericho-Benoit/Austin-HHH Raw- **** (I think it's the best two-on-two tag match on my list. Either this or Edge-Mysterio vs. Benoit-Angle NM 02).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Diesel vs Michaels from WM 11 over Good Friends, Better Enemies?

Ok. I must watch back to back and see if this can work.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Diesel vs Michaels from WM 11 over Good Friends, Better Enemies?
> 
> Ok. I must watch back to back and see if this can work.


I mostly dislike their IYH match though, so if you actually like the No Holds Barred match odds are you won't think WM match is better or anywhere near as good .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> I mostly dislike their IYH match though, so if you actually like the No Holds Barred match odds are you won't think WM match is better or anywhere near as good .


I'm pretty big on the No Holds Barred match so...probably correct with your statement. I've had an urge to watch WrestleMania 11 again regardless though. Only b/c it has been a very long time since I've seen it as a whole. I'm talking VHS long time. Except for Undertaker vs Bundy which I own via DVD thanks to one of Taker's sets.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, I almost forgot, here's the rank of all the WHC matches so far:

17 - HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
16 - HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
15 - HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
14 - HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
13 - HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
12 - HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
11 - HHH/Booker, Raw 4/26/2003 (**3/4)
10 - HHH/HBK, Armageddon 2002 (***)
9 - HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
8 - Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
7 - HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
6 - HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
5 - HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
4 - HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
3 - Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/26/2003 (***1/2)
2 - HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
1 - Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Looks as expected. Although I wouldn't have Nash's hell in a cell below the mediocre '03 Elimination Chamber.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big jump between the #1 and #2 ratings at the moment, ATF. Obviously expecting that to change come early 2004.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Good Friends, Better Enemies was awesome imo. Would need to watch WM match again, but from what I recall the NHB match seriously outclasses it. PAMELA and JENNY might change my mind, though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Good list it looks like so far ATF. Damn, reminds me how much HHH was in the title scene at the time  

WHC Top 10:

(****3/4)
1) Taker/Angle NWO 06
(****1/2)
2) Taker/Batista WM23
3) Batista/HHH Vengeance 2005
(****1/4)
4) Benoit/HBK/HHH WM20
5) Taker/Edge WM24
6) Taker/Batista CS 2007
7) HBK/HHH/Jericho/Kane/RVD/Booker T SVS 2002
8) Punk/Jeff SS 2009
9) Orton/Christian OTL 2011
10) Edge vs. Benoit vs. Jericho vs. Batista vs. Orton vs. HHH NYR 2005


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels at IYH: GFBE was pretty good. Diesel played a killer heel, and the spot where he yanked the fake leg off of Mad Dog Vachon was such a jerk move. Diesel's last WWF match as well.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Rock/Austin (WM 19)

Very good match, highlighted by fucking great character work from both guys, particularly Rock. Unfortunately, the finishing stretch was way too long and one-dimensional, how the hell they couldn't come up with some color, ffs. The Rock's win felt huge, though. And yeah, heel Lawler was genius, of course.

***1/2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WM 10:

Bret/Owen- *****
Bigelow&Vachon/Doink&Dink- DUD
Savage/Crush- **
Kai/Blayze- *
Tag Titles Match- DUD
Luher/Yokozuna- **1/4
Bomb/Earthquake- N/A
HBK/Ramon- ****1/2

WM 11:

AP/B.Brothers- **
Jarret/Ramon- **3/4
Bundy/Taker- *1/2
Tag Titles Match- **1/4
Hart/Backlund- **
HBK/Diesel- ***1/4
Bigelow/Taylor- ***1/2

WM 12:

C.C/Yokozuna&Roberts&Ahmed- **1/2
Goldust/Piper- N/A
SCSA/Vega- **3/4
HHH/Warrior- DUD
Diesel/Taker- ***
Hart/HBK- ***1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> After proposing my Triple H/Benoit project here and getting some good feedback, I've rummaged through my tapes and online and come up with a full list of every match they've appeared in together. I'm excluding the 2006 Rumble match. If I have missed anything off the list can someone please let me know?
> 
> *Smackdown 3rd February 2000: -* Triple H vs Chris Benoit
> *Raw 7th Febuary 2000: -* Triple H, Chris Benoit, X-Pac, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn vs The Rock, Cactus Jack, Rikishi & Too Cool
> ...


Don't forget the match from Smackdown that was Eddie Guerrero's tribute show. 18th November 2005 I think. And if you count that, Royal Rumble 2006 is the last time they were ever in the same ring. And they also had some interactions.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project:*

*Goldberg/HHH, Survivor Series 2003:* 3/4*. It's a step down from the previous Survivor Series WHC match, it's a step down from the previous WHC match (Goldberg/HBK), hell, it's a step down from the previous Goldberg/HHH match. That hurts. The build up was awesome, but why get hyped for a match between the 2003 version of these two? Really don't know either. This was almost a carbon copy of their other match, but with a less anti-climatic and more plain bad of a finish, a careless crowd, and an overbooking mess. Psychology saves this one from the claws of a DUD, who are still awaiting for its next victim. But with 2004 ahead, I'd bet my house it's not happening soon... thank God. Oh, and yeah this match sucks.

*Goldberg/HHH, Raw 11/23/2003:* **. So let me get this straight - these two got 20 minutes on a major PPV like Survivor Series and have a match close to the rating of DUD, and then are cut to 7 minutes on Raw and have a match twice as good? Yeah, okay. Seems legit. Anywho, I guess they found the formula of having these two work well together, that is to give them a low amount of TV time for a short timekiller... that is STILL boring and plodding. Thankfully, the quality does raise - no more sloppiness, the shit is cut, and the psychology/selling is still good. Nothing else to say.

*Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003:* ***. Finally, the Goldberg era is over! Finally, the 2003-style Triple H is dead! Finally, the quality will start to raise! The seeds for the World Heavyweight Championship's GOAT year (2004) were planted in this pretty alright and overlooked Triple Threat. Once again, psychology ground is great, as the addition of Kane didn't hurt that a single bit, Trips and Goldie weren't plodding and dull during their mini-affairs, and the brawling in the match was quite intense. Did I mention already that 2003's Hunter dies here? Because, even though there's another '03 match to be showcased, he's no longer the dull worker that haunted Raw in with his feud against WCW throughout all of 2003. Ladies and gentlemen, brace yourselves for what's to come.

*Next:* Eric Bischoff interrupts a match, 2004 comes around, and a referee counts to 10....


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Ooh, looking at AlienBountyHunter's list, the two HHH/Batista vs. Benoit/Jericho matches interest the fuck out of me. Going to watch them now. I'll report back.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Don't forget the match from Smackdown that was Eddie Guerrero's tribute show. 18th November 2005 I think. And if you count that, Royal Rumble 2006 is the last time they were ever in the same ring. And they also had some interactions.


Of course, completely missed the match from the Eddie tribute show. Thanks a lot! I might include the Rumble at the end since that's the last time they were in the same ring as you said.

Oh, and thanks to Zep I now have the four corners match from Smackdown 2000 that I couldn't find. So big (Y) to him. If anyone comes across the other match I've labelled as not having, please let me know.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What other match? I gots all Raw and SD 2000 shows .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Ooh, looking at AlienBountyHunter's list, the two HHH/Batista vs. Benoit/Jericho matches interest the fuck out of me. Going to watch them now. I'll report back.


HHH gives Benoit a NASTY chair shot to the back of the head in the 13/12 one. UGH, that one was just terrible. Reckless motherfucker.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> What other match? I gots all Raw and SD 2000 shows .


*Raw 6th November 2000:* - Triple H, Chyna, Billy Gunn & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko & Eddie Guerrero.

Would be a big (Y) if you have that. It's the only one I'm missing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> *Raw 6th November 2000:* - Triple H, Chyna, Billy Gunn & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko & Eddie Guerrero.
> 
> Would be a big (Y) if you have that. It's the only one I'm missing.


Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3cpwk_eddie-as-a-heel-in-2000-9-radicals_news#.UUtfW7X3CKI


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watching the SummerSlam match between Savage/Warrior and it's the same feeling again from their WM 7 match. Savage brings the excitement, Warrior brings the deflation. *sigh* It's frustrating since I was expecting a heated clash in both bouts.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Is this what you're looking for?
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3cpwk_eddie-as-a-heel-in-2000-9-radicals_news#.UUtfW7X3CKI


Yes that is. I searched high and wide through Dailymotion and couldn't find that. Big thanks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Rock/Austin (WM 19)
> 
> Very good match, highlighted by fucking great character work from both guys, particularly Rock. Unfortunately, the finishing stretch was way too long and one-dimensional, how the hell they couldn't come up with some color, ffs. The Rock's win felt huge, though. And yeah, heel Lawler was genius, of course.
> 
> ***1/2


"no color" yet still destroys WrestleMania 17's match. 8*D


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project
*
*HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003:* ****1/2. It's irritating how in over 20 matches contested for the World Heavyweight Title, only two of them had a rating that matched or was above **** (the other being the Survivor Series Chamber). That's how frustrating this time stage was for the belt. Thankfully, it all gets better now, as good-ol' 2003-style Triple H is dead. No more dull Hunter with plodding wrestling, no more WCW burials, no more bad shit. Hunter is his old awesome self again, and I wonder what's a better way to put him right into business than have him go 30 minutes with HBK. This right here is hunted by those who are in the looks for the greatest Raw matches in history, and rightfully so. Arguably considered to be the best one-on-one contest that Trips and Shawn had with each other, it told a great story, the wrestling was superb, everything felt genuine and fresh. Granted, the finish was a non-finish, but when it's all followed by amazing wrestling, I guess you can leave satisfied.

*HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004:* ****. Oh yes, I'm not joking on that rating. But 1st things 1st: FINALLY, 2004 is here! Well, for the WWE themselves, it wasn't that much of great news. Mostly for poor Smackdown, which had a terrific 2002 and 2003, and then went full force into disaster this year. On the other hand, Raw survived the storm that 2002 and 2003 were and rode its momentum into an excelllent 2004, as the World Heavyweight Title run (it's best ever) shall present. The year started off with a bang, as Trips and Shawn put on a Last Man Standing match that is often ripped around here thanks to its unexistant "spark" and forced brutality. Well, admitedly, the match does feel forced... but fuck it, do Game and HBK ever bust their ass harder to hinder that fact, as they go from Texas to New York in an effort to put the best carwreck-style popcorn fun possible, and in that department it's surely a great match. I think of this match as the Avatar of the WWE - provides really good storytelling with, for its standards, amazing (if not GOAT) visuals. Not to mention that, considering this WAS meant to be a carwreck-style popcorn fun match, it had all the ingredients for it - huge flights through the announce table, brutal chair shots, the visual of the blood in both men's faces covering their eyes, their mouth, everything, which made for terrific visuals. HBK's babyface performance, in particular, I loved it - even though I shouldn't be really surprised since not many can play a face like Shawn, his always keep coming back, no matter how much the blood is blinding me or no matter how much Trips drains my forces away was biblical. Sure enough, the match does have a major flaw to it: the wrestling portion in between, which made no sense whatsoever when you consider they had just gone through Hell and both men were a crimson mask at that point. That's like starting a 3 Stages Of Hell match with a Street Fight, then a Deathmatch, and then going back to Singles. Still, you gotta give credit where it's due - they were given this material to work with, and while substance was nowhere near the greatest, I personally clapped.

*HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20:* *****. My God, do I really need to say anything about this one that hasn't been said? It was the 1st of three World Heavyweight Title Main Event matches at WrestleMania, and not only was it easily, EASILY the best, but it's also considered to be one of the GOAT Mania matches, and most importantly, the absolute GOAT World Heavyweight Championship match in WWE history. Oh, and the GOAT Triple Threat too. They let three of the greatest in all time go absolutely balls out for 40 minutes. And sometimes, things like that just work beyond belief. Well, I don't think I really need to say anything more about this, folks. Though I'll say it - I wonder what was Vince McMahon's reaction when the World Title was apparently stolen by some dude named Krispin Wah and went missing until SummerSlam that year 8*D

*NEXT:* The World Title is still missing as a ghost plays Sweet Chin Music, HBK taps out to a ghostly Sharpshooter in Montreal, and Kane is Suplexed by a ghost as well.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK/HHH Raw 12/29/03- ****
HBK/HHH RR 2004- ***
HBK/HHH/Benoit WM20- ****1/4

and here are the ratings for what I assume are the next three matches:

Benoit/HBK/HHH BL 2004- ****
Benoit/HBK Raw May (?) 2004- ****
Benoit/Kane BB 04- ***3/4

Benoit definitely had one damn fine reign. Between the above matches, the match with HHH at Vengeance and the ironman match, as well as vs. Orton SS, nothing falls below great (though the Iron man match wasn't "great" for that match type imo, but a great match in general).


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Macho Man Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior WWF Championship SummerSlam (1992) ***

Those three stars belong to Savage. I like Warrior, but this is the last match of his I'm watching. Seriously, it became a chore just to watch this. There is nothing negative I can say about Macho's performance, selling being the big one in this match. All of this frustration stems from the Warrior. I know he was limited in the ring. I wasn't expecting him to do three cartwheels followed by a 360 moonsault nor an even half decent clothesline. He was just soul draining to watch when he didn't summon those brief bursts of energy./rant


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their Last Man Standing is utterly uneventful. Pretty bad, I must say. When it comes to those guys, Taboo Tuesday '04 blows away most of their matches.

Benoit saved the World Championship. Got to give him credit instead of referring to him as a ghost, man. :hayley2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just to make it easier, here are Benoit's title defenses.

vs Rhyno - Raw Draft Show (it was a three minute squash so not necessary to include)
vs HHH vs HBK - Backlash
vs HBK - Raw May 2nd
vs Kane - Bad Blood
vs Kane - Raw June 28th
vs HHH - Vengeance
vs HHH - Raw July 26th
vs Eugene - sometimes in the summer
vs Orton - SummerSlam

And obviously, the rematch the night after SS shouldn't be forgotten.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc Eugene's World Championship match came the night after Vengeance. Evolution came out and destroyed him leading down that path for Summerslam, etc.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Finally found it on Dailymotion, Steiners vs Headshrinkers at WM 9. Heard it was pretty good.

If anyone's interested
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x627mr_steiner-brothers-vs-the-headshrinke_sport?search_algo=2#.UUt4TTdW2So


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Their Last Man Standing is utterly uneventful. Pretty bad, I must say. When it comes to those guys, Taboo Tuesday '04 blows away most of their matches.
> 
> Benoit saved the World Championship. Got to give him credit instead of referring to him as a ghost, man. :hayley2


The ghost part is just me kidding around, it's not made supposed to be offensive or anything 

Anywho, I guess we really differ opinion on the LMS match. I said why on my review, but whatevs. Still got an entire Summer to go before reaching Taboo Tuesday :side:


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Great American Bash '86
Tully Blanchard vs Ron Garvin. Taped Fist match
A taped fist match, something to play on Garvin's 'Hands of Stone' moniker. All in all, it was a pretty one sided affair from Garvin. Just laying the punches into Blanchard from the get go, before he had his robes off. Brutal beating taken by Blanchard, but he fights back, J.J Dillon plays some brass knuckles in to win the match for Blanchard. **1/4. I didn't write very much about it, but its still a fun affair. 

The Road Warriors vs The Russians, Nikita & Ivan. Russian Deathchain match
A very weird match. Has no structure, they have to keep the Warriors & Nikita very strong. They achieved that, but the match suffered. Still an entertaining brawl, albeit pretty short. *3/4

The Andersons vs the Rock 'n' Roll Express
Dubbed the match to decide the tag team of the '80s, and well, the number one contenders to the Midnight Express. The '80s weren't over either, not for another 3 & 1/2 years. Not my specialty, analysing tag matches. But I enjoy them thoroughly, got to learn. The match was completely worked around Ricky's injury, the Horsemen breaking his nose. Ole's vicious work on it makes me curious for some of his single matches. It's well done, and would be a great view, given it was the appriopriate opponent. He is just a wardog, picks off every bit of Morton to physically break. Especially the face & nose. Arn works as the glue between Ole & Morton dominating most of the match, applying the structure, helping keep Morton tamed, and with Gibson as the super heroic babyface. Pity this match has been clipped in the recording. FML. But it doesn't hurt the pacing of the match, and keeps the structure intact. 30 seconds left in the match, Gibson gets in, cleans up the Anderson's, but it's not enough. Time limit finish. ***1/2+. The attack from the Minnesota Wrecking Crew, on Morton, is flawless. But with only 13 minutes, the start not being too sharp, and 7 minutes being clipped out (20 minute bout), it had the potential to be fan-fucking-tastic.

Magnum T.A vs Nikita Koloff Match 4 out of the best of 7 Series
For the past 2 weeks, it was all about 'will Magnum fight back?' after being 3-0 down to the Russian Nightmare. The match, relatively short, and nothing too special, did play into the story. Magnum never doubted himself, but Nikita was the unstoppable beast from Russia. On a massive roll, these two were built up to be the next big stars of the NWA, and their feud made the United States Championship extremely prestigeous. The match itself, was very simple, nothing extraordinary, and nothing to note. I'd give it around **. It worked for what it was.

The Midnight Express & Jim Cornette vs Magnum T.A, Dusty Rhodes & Baby Doll in the Steel Cage
The match was just for Baby Doll to get his revenge on the trash talking from Cornette. The exchange between Eaton & Magnum was very solid, and thats basically the match. Magnum got a bit of a beating. Lasted like 6 minutes. *3/4

Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship in the Steel Cage
The build up was Ric Flair attempting to do the impossible, defend the title throughout the entire Great American Bash tour. 33 days, 14, or 15 matches, different opponents. This tour pretty much solidified Ric Flair having the greatest NWA World Championship run. Lasting 2 years, 2 months and 2 days, wrestling on every(?) continent, champions & challengers alike from other companies, giving fantastic match after fantastic match. All good things must come to an end eventually. An interesting thing is that these two are the only JCP mainstays that have touched the NWA World Championship, until Ronnie Garvin captured the title.

Onto the match, the start is very Flair/Dusty, nothing spectacular, The usual lockups, the usual struts & strides, antics to get the crowd invested, the chops, punches. But these two have perfected it enough against each other, and it works every time. Following the early routine, the match turned more towards a cage match. Sleeper hold by Dusty, follows with Ric just controlling the pace with his methodical and typical moveset. Dusty begins to 'HULK~~' up during a F4LL, crowd begins to come into the match. Totally wish my leg doesn't ache every time I see very good leg work. Dusty comes back into the match after some chops. Flair attempts an escape after Dusty just absorbs his offence, but is twarted. Dusty chases after Flair, beating him down, follows with a mandatory Flair blade job. Using exactly the same tactics that Flair used on him. Got to love Dusty's F4LL, applies it so effortlessly, and looks legit. More pain to my leg after Flair screams when he escapes the lock. Lost a bit of the match here, caught up in it all. Small package by Dusty Rhodes , 1.. 2.. 3! Big surprise he won it with a roll-up, but he wasn't going to break down Ric Flair the conventional way.

Enjoyed this match much more than their predecessor match-ups. ****. The cage stip gave it the feel it needed, the added brutality, and of course, a title swap. Tempo was good throughout, didn't dip, recommended match.

As for the PPV, enjoyable event. Great mix of matches. Not a 'MUST' watch, but I'd recommend it to anyone serious about this time period.​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> iirc Eugene's World Championship match came the night after Vengeance. Evolution came out and destroyed him leading down that path for Summerslam, etc.


Yeah, I think that was it. And that's why he interfered in the Ironman match, starting his "war" with Triple H heading into SummerSlam.

Still blows my mind that they dedicated that summer to a freaking retard. But again, they were desperate for ratings hence some of the stupid things they did post-AE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> The ghost part is just me kidding around, it's not made supposed to be offensive or anything
> 
> Anywho, I guess we really differ opinion on the LMS match. I said why on my review, but whatevs. Still got an entire Summer to go before reaching Taboo Tuesday :side:


All good. Never know when you meet one of those people who try and associate all aspects of Benoit to his unfortunate end. I've met a few. They're about as vapid as they sound.

It falls completely flat for me. Good review nonetheless. You go into more than enough detail to describe what it was you dug about the match. Taboo Tuesday though. I wasn't happy about Michaels injury, but ironically enough, I think it actually aided the match being stronger than if he wasn't injured. Going by their track record of course.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, I think that was it. And that's why he interfered in the Ironman match, starting his "war" with Triple H heading into SummerSlam.
> 
> *Still blows my mind that they dedicated that summer to a freaking retard.* But again, they were desperate for ratings hence some of the stupid things they did post-AE.


It did lead to arguably HHH's best character performance EVER, though. Every cloud has a silver lining.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eugene was SUPER over at that time - pardon Canada circa Summerslam - so, WWE realized they might as well give the fans what they want...idk.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, as much as I love both Triple H and HBK, they seemed to lack chemistry when working against each other. Aside from the December 03 Raw match, the Taboo Tuesday (which was solid basically by accident - as Cody said Michaels' injury aided the story of the match), and Summerslam 02, I haven't cared for their matches much. Even the matches listed (aside from Raw 03) aren't nearly what you would've expected from two great performers such as themselves.

I do find the HIAC match underrated a bit, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> All good. Never know when you meet one of those people who try and associate all aspects of Benoit to his unfortunate end. I've met a few. They're about as vapid as they sound.
> 
> It falls completely flat for me. Good review nonetheless. You go into more than enough detail to describe what it was you dug about the match. Taboo Tuesday though. I wasn't happy about Michaels injury, but ironically enough, I think it actually aided the match being stronger than if he wasn't injured. Going by their track record of course.


Yep. One of the things I really hate the most when Benoit is mentioned around here really is that, to associate everything about him - his legacy, his in-ring skill, the guy he used to be before snapping - to the tragedy. One thing is joke around with the WWE trying to erase Benoit from our memories, another thing is joke with Benoit himself. Ridiculous.

Taboo Tuesday, heard a lot of good things about it, particularly about the injury work from Haitch. Me loves some good psychology, so let's hope it _breaks a leg_ when I get to watch it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, as much as I love both Triple H and HBK, they seemed to lack chemistry when working against each other. Aside from the December 03 Raw match, the Taboo Tuesday (which was solid basically by accident - as Cody said Michaels' injury aided the story of the match), and Summerslam 02, I haven't cared for their matches much. Even the matches listed (aside from Raw 03) aren't nearly what you would've expected from two great performers such as themselves.
> 
> I do find the HIAC match underrated a bit, though.


HIAC isn't bad. It's LONG, yeah. But nothing I'd say was horrible. One of their better matches granted it isn't exactly saying much. Not sure why their chemistry was so sporadic.



ATF said:


> Yep. One of the things I really hate the most when Benoit is mentioned around here really is that, to associate everything about him - his legacy, his in-ring skill, the guy he used to be before snapping - to the tragedy. One thing is joke around with the WWE trying to erase Benoit from our memories, another thing is joke with Benoit himself. Ridiculous.
> 
> Taboo Tuesday, heard a lot of good things about it, particularly about the injury work from Haitch. Me loves some good psychology, so let's hope it _breaks a leg_ when I get to watch it


Indeed. To completely associate all the good aspects of him as a wrestler with what came to be that weekend in 2007 is just so bunk. No one is advocating the tragedy. We're only choosing to remember the man at his best. Not his worst.

Good work all around. Trips is a complete jerk attacking the legit injured leg of HBK. So naturally Shawn's selling conveys a ton of emotion & honest to goodness pain after every blow. Impossible to not root for Shawn at the end of the match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The "who is Chris Benoit?" / "I can't watch his matches or even say a good thing about him" people are absolutely pathetic. Sometimes I wonder what they are trying to achieve with this attitude. I lose any bit of respect I have for anybody if they have this mentality, no exceptions made.

And HHH/HBK indeed lacked chemistry. Other than SummerSlam and Raw 03, I can't bring myself to really care for their matches. Even Taboo Tuesday was nothing great even though it's their third best. HIAC, in particular, I hate because of how boring it is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did HBK/HHH have any Raw matches back in Micheals' first run? Apart from the Euro title thing...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Grow to like Taboo Tuesday. Match rules. Simple, yet brutal, concept and the turn out is almost magical. Simple is almost always the best way to go.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Did HBK/HHH have any Raw matches back in Micheals' first run? Apart from the Euro title thing...


Yes. 5/13/96, have it on an HBK compilation set. But here are the links to Parts 1 and 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jeJDJiCiyc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=negXqm1XeP8


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Found a link to a Michaels vs 1-2-3 Kid match in the related videos after clicking the link ^. Omg :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Nice find. I see one from '96 and one from '93. Both are fun TV matches. They had pretty good chemistry with one another.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Found a link to a Michaels vs 1-2-3 Kid match in the related videos after clicking the link ^. Omg :mark:




Was it 3/4/96? That one's a goody.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yes. 5/13/96, have it on an HBK compilation set. But here are the links to Parts 1 and 2:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jeJDJiCiyc
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=negXqm1XeP8


Thanks mate, i owe ya some rep 

Another fave of mine if anyone needs it:

*'Stone Cold' Steve Austin vs Dude Love - Over The Edge 1998*

Tagged Classic version, unedited/unblurred. Includes the build up too:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...-dude-love-over-edge-1998-a.html#post15671258


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Was it 3/4/96? That one's a goody.


Nah1993. _(that's which year it was)_

There was a direct link in the related videos of their '96 match though:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Steiner Brothers vs The Headshrinkers Wrestlemania 9 (1993) ****

Goddamn, what a fucking match! JR wasn't lying when he said it would be a slobberknocker. The three commentators were fantastic during this match. The Doomsday Device spot was insane. (Start at 15:50)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x627mr_steiner-brothers-vs-the-headshrinke_sport?search_algo=2#.UUt4TTdW2So


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

2003 was a pretty shitty year for Triple H. Don't ask why I would subject myself to the punishment, but I decided to watch Steiner/HHH from Royal Rumble 03 today. I remember even as an 11 year old kid watching this on PPV, still thinking this match was a boring pile of shit. It was time to see if it held up.

Here are some bullet points from my trip through this hellish match.


Steiner just keeps chopping away at HHH and clubbing him on the back. 20 seconds in and he already looks confused as to what to do next. 

My God how many suplexes (if you can even call them that) is Steiner going to execute in this match?

3 neckbreakers in this match already from Triple H. Repetition is key in this one.

Holy shit what an ugly butterfly suplex by Steiner! Hunter lands on Steiner's legs on the way down.

Trips is bleeding now, too bad the crowd lost interest 10 minutes ago. This mercifully ends with a sledgehammer shot to Steiner. 

DQ finish on top of a horror of a match. Fans are rightfully crapping all over this!

*DUD* city!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Epic review of the wrestlecrap. :lmao @ the match. Truly is as bad as everyone describes. Deserving.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive never watched it  Why is that every bad match, we all have the urge to still wanna fucking watch it :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same with a car wreck. You can't look away.

Wrestlecrap is infamous for a reason. Of course you feel like a mong the moment it is over. But, you get a kick out of laughing during the entire time. Case & point: Chamber of Horrors match.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Currently watching HHH vs The Rock Ladder Match at SummerSlam '98. Really cool video package. Chyna back then :ass


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

zep81 said:


> Ive never watched it  Why is that every bad match, we all have the urge to still wanna fucking watch it :lol


You know what they say about trainwrecks... you can't look away from them. But yeah, that match is shit. Maybe not a DUD (haven't seen it in awhile), but it's still garbage. Their No Way Out match is just as bad. '03 was a terrible year for the Game, but at least it had his match with HBK to end the year strong. :mark:


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

The one thing of note from Trips/Steiner RR 03 though...HHH debuts his....RED TRUNKS? If that wasn't a sign that something was about to go terribly wrong, I don't know what is.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

We talk about HHH being bad in '03 (which he was), but what about Steiner? Not only were his matches bad but after coming into the company hot and going after the world title, he then got cut down and stuck in a feud with Test (RIP). The one good thing about their feud was that Stacy got a lot of TV time. 



pjc33 said:


> The one thing of note from Trips/Steiner RR 03 though...HHH debuts his....RED TRUNKS? If that wasn't a sign that something was about to go terribly wrong, I don't know what is.


Haha, yeah I remember back then Trips having a few different coloured trunks. I was not happy haha. Black always looked better. He had purple at one point. Purple?! On The Game? It just didn't look right.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> We talk about HHH being bad in '03 (which he was), but what about Steiner? Not only were his matches bad but after coming into the company hot and going after the world title, he then got cut down and stuck in a feud with Test (RIP). The one good thing about their feud was that Stacy got a lot of TV time.


 The only good thing about Steiner in the WWE was his debut at the Rumble PPV.

Oh yeah, I'm shocked that Steiner was in the WWF before he joining WCW


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> The only good thing about Steiner in the WWE was his debut at the Rumble PPV.
> 
> Oh yeah, I'm shocked that Steiner was in the WWF before he joining WCW


Do you mean Survivor Series 2002? When he attacked Matt Hardy and Chris Nowinksi? If so then yes, that was pretty awesome. That whole PPV is one of my favourites in fact.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> We talk about HHH being bad in '03 (which he was), but what about Steiner? Not only were his matches bad but after coming into the company hot and going after the world title, he then got cut down and stuck in a feud with Test (RIP). The one good thing about their feud was that Stacy got a lot of TV time.


Exactly, how do you go from a world title program to not even being on WrestleMania XIX a month later? You gotta try really hard to suck that bad.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Do you mean Survivor Series 2002? When he attacked Matt Hardy and Chris Nowinksi? If so then yes, that was pretty awesome. That whole PPV is one of my favourites in fact.


 Ah yes, SS 2002. :no:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Steiner's return was pretty cool moment:






The great crowd helped.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Chiller88 said:


> Exactly, how do you go from a world title program to not even being on WrestleMania XIX a month later? You gotta try really hard to suck that bad.


Haha bingo. And to think when he returned everyone was psyched. I know I was. Still love that entrance music though.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Steiner's return was indeed pretty awesome. Too bad he sucked upon returning to the ring, which is a shame because I :mark: for Steiner. And that theme is one of the GOAT's if you ask me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Steiner's feud with Nowinski in the middle of the year was comedy gold. That debate they had.... :lmao


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Chiller88 said:


> Steiner's return was indeed pretty awesome. Too bad he sucked upon returning to the ring, which is a shame because I :mark: for Steiner. And that theme is one of the GOAT's if you ask me.


 If only he returned last year to attack Heath Slater. :mark:


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Survivor Series 2007
WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton (C)

I will forever sing the praises of this match because it's fucking awesome. Orton was still early in his "Age of Orton", title run, that lasted until Backlash 08. The Sweet Chin Music being banned added another element to it, Shawn having to find another way of beating Orton, which he was more than capable of doing. HBK tried every damn submission hold he could think of to try and make Orton give it up. Orton had a hell of a performance as well, everything he did was crisp and beautiful. The RKO to end it was great. Aftermath was pretty appropriate too, with Randy being super kicked for like the 20th time that month lol.

****1/2 yeah I said it.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Oliver-94 said:


> If only he returned last year to attack Heath Slater. :mark:


Heath: "I am sick and tired of these 'Legends' coming here and taking away my spotlight! How loud do I gotta HOLLER to get that point across!"

*HOLLER... IF YA HEAR ME!*

:yes


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Damn shame Steiner was so bad in the ring upon returning to WWE. Watching that video of his debut, he was so damn over with the crowd.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

fpalm It didn't hit me until I saw the set that I remember watching this ppv with my family. HIGHWAY TO HELL!


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

GIMME THE FUCKING MIC


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> We talk about HHH being bad in '03 (which he was), but what about Steiner? Not only were his matches bad but after coming into the company hot and going after the world title, he then got cut down and stuck in a feud with Test (RIP). The one good thing about their feud was that Stacy got a lot of TV time.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, yeah I remember back then Trips having a few different coloured trunks. I was not happy haha. Black always looked better. He had purple at one point. Purple?! On The Game? It just didn't look right.


I liked it at the time but years later realized that he was trying to look like Flair.
His hair, the trunks and even the boots.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RAW 2003 is above anything else Triple H and Shawn Michaels ever did against one another for sure. When they kept shit as simple as possible and refused to go overboard with OMGZEPICNESSSSS they were good together.

BOUGHT ELIMINATION CHAMBER 2013 TODAY. BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Going to check out Punk/Rock from EC then KOK? :troll


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nostalgia said:


> Going to check out Punk/Rock from EC then KOK? :troll


He's a lucky man. :troll


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Currently watching HHH vs The Rock Ladder Match at SummerSlam '98. Really cool video package. Chyna back then :ass


Yes! Love that match. Summerslam 98 was one of the first PPVs I ever saw. 

And thanks to whomever posted the HBK/1-2-3 Kid. I've got that queued up for whenever I get to it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll check out that awfulness later, as there's NO POSSIBLE WAY it will be worse than the Rumble match, as I'm pretty sure there's at least a few good near falls in that one (even if it's worked at a snail's pace for no reason once again).

Jesus, Del Rio is so uninspiring in the ring to me that it's insane. This match at Elimination Chamber... EH.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I'll check out that awfulness later, as there's NO POSSIBLE WAY it will be worse than the Rumble match, as I'm pretty sure there's at least a few good near falls in that one (even if it's worked at a snail's pace for no reason once again).
> 
> Jesus, Del Rio is so uninspiring in the ring to me that it's insane. This match at Elimination Chamber... EH.


 The only thing the EC match has over the RR match is the better finish.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> The only thing the EC match has over the RR match is the better finish.


If that's true then I'm in for one big DUD.

unk3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> If that's true then I'm in for one big DUD.
> 
> unk3


 If Punk had won that match then the match would have automatically been a DUD but because ROCK won the match, I'm going to be very biased and give it a ***3/4









:rock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The sad thing is.... What you just described would be a reality for some people.

unk3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The sad thing is.... What you just described would be a reality for some people.
> 
> unk3


 Just 16 more days bro :cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE MIZ WRESTLED A GOOD MATCH IN 2013? THE FUCK? CESARO YOU ARE MY SWISS JESUS.

Chamber match up next, loved it on the first watch due to the talent in the ring and MARK MOTHERFUCKIN' HENRY doing what he does and spittin' some wigs. OH, FUCK HIM GETTING ELIMINATED THOUGH .

Oh and... THANK GOD. CLOSER AND CLOSER TO JAWN SHEENA. I'M ROCKING A WORD LIFE T SHIRT AT THE MOMENT.

:cena2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> THE MIZ WRESTLED A GOOD MATCH IN 2013? THE FUCK? CESARO YOU ARE MY SWISS JESUS.
> 
> Chamber match up next, loved it on the first watch due to the talent in the ring and MARK MOTHERFUCKIN' HENRY doing what he does and spittin' some wigs. OH, FUCK HIM GETTING ELIMINATED THOUGH .
> 
> ...


Your Cena love is a bit nauseating, but your Game love makes up for it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Did someone say GAME LOVE?

:HHH2

Here's a picture of DEM TRUNKS we mentioned earlier. God damn I really don't like them. Out of his coloured ones I think prefer the blue ones he wore a few times.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

What's worse? The purple trunks he's rockin' in that picture or the white boots? LOL 










DEM BOOTZ


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hell no, I loved the white boots! I'm pretty disappointed he didn't wear them more.

Hey, I think we forgot something. What about DEM SHORTS:










These sucked too.  Poor Trips had to wear them to nurse his injured groin.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I FUCKING ADORE THOSE WHITE BOOTS.

His 2003 RED/PURPLE Trunks? FUCK DAT NOISE.

EDIT: OH FUCK THOSE SHORTS. Anybody remember what he wore in his DX-GAME transitional stage for like a month? It was a chain link vest kinda thing, just like the one Steiner wears on his head to the ring :lol.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

UGH the shorts! BURN EM WITH FIRE!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I absolutely DESPISED his bulky 2002-2003 look, very un-cerebral like.

When he was really lean in 2000 but still built like a fucking tank, that was probably his best build for sure and helped him really bump around and shit easier. During his second prime in 04-06 ish he was carrying around less lean mass but looked a little chubbier but still managed to work great. At his BIGGEST? OH. HE WAS BAD.

Now he can't even shave his fucking chest hair for a match :lol.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> EDIT: OH FUCK THOSE SHORTS. Anybody remember what he wore in his DX-GAME transitional stage for like a month? It was a chain link vest kinda thing, just like the one Steiner wears on his head to the ring :lol.


Yes, oh man that was bad. That was around the stage where he couldn't decide on trunks or tights too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

What about those sweet black trunks he wore when he was hurt in 2003? I actually liked those. 

DEM WHITE BOOTS THOUGH

Edit: Beat to it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE BLACK HAND WRAPS AGAINST NASH @ TLC WERE AMAZING.

OFFICIAL DVD/MATCH/SHOW/TRIPLE H RING ATTIRE DISCUSSION THREAD.

:HHH2


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

So we can all pretty much agree 2003 was the worst year of his career based on in ring performance and/or ring gear. Poor Trips. 

P.S this thread is now queer eye for the straight guy.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The purple pants he wore in 98 (and probably other times) with the H on them. THOSE

The chain mail thing he wore in 1999 was stupid. The leather jacket with no shirt, though. Fuck that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

God what has this thread turned into. :|

Those white boots looked awesome on Triple H though, he should of worn them more.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Aren't we forgetting this look?










:cool2


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Lol Orton should just come out wearing these as the Viper...










Ok this is getting out of control now. Quick! Someone throw out some stars so we can get this thing back on track!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> ****1/2. Absolutely loved the counters and finish to this match.Didn't make taker look weak.
> 
> 
> Such a shame this wasn't at WM 22 instead of NWO



Agree 1000% with this. If Angle/Taker from NWO 2006 had been at WM22 it would probably be the best match in WM history or at least on the short list. Classic 5 star match and one of my faves of all time. If memory serves Taker wanted Angle to end the streak that year and Angle declined. As someone who would like to see the streak end (OMG WTF is wrong with me right?) this would have been the way to do it.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

This was Triple H at his best, IMO. This is 2000. Those are his best trunks, too, IMO. I also like his theme music from 2000 "My Time," the most out of all of his theme songs.










Outside of the ring, during this same time in the McMahon-Helmsley era he looked pretty cool with the leather jacket look:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Agreed. Those are the GOAT trunks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

"For Whom The Bell Tolls" Wrestlemania XXVII Triple H Entrance - GOAT Entrance .


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> "For Whom The Bell Tolls" Wrestlemania XXVII Triple H Entrance - GOAT Entrance .


Better than Hunter The Barbarian??!!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, that was awesome. HHH always has great entrances though. I might stick the Motorhead performance from WM17 towards the top of my list. Though a personal favourite of mine is his entrance at Armageddon 2000, with the 'My Time' instrumental, and J.R. GOATing it on commentary with something along the lines of "Is he the first man to enter the cell? Or is he the first victim?"


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree on the "For Whom the Bell Tolls", but Taker using Ain't No Grave at the same show (and returning with that music) was also sweet.

Trips' entrance at Mania 22 is GOAT worthy. The KOKs theme (more Motorhead greatness) and dressed in the outfit. Certainly better than Cena's dumbass Chicago gangster wear. Something about shorts and an overcoat.fpalm

Edit: But are there many things better HBK flying in at Mania 12 while Vince jizzes all over himself on commentary. SHAAAAAWN MICHAELS AHH NO LOOK AT THAT


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania X-7
Wrestlemania X-8
Wrestlemania XXI
Wrestlemania XXII
Wrestlemania XXV
Wrestlemania XXVII

All AWESOME Wrestlemania entrances. HELL, the XXV entrance is better than the match itself FFS. That "For Whom The Bell Tolls" entrance is my personal favorite due to it's congruence with the storyline and also the fact that it's one of my favorite ever Metallica songs.

MOTORHEAD THEMES >>> My Time. The Game is perhaps the greatest SONG that was ever used for an entrance theme, with Drowning Pool's version being legit alongside THE EPIC KING OF KINGS SONG. HOLY FUCK I LOVE THAT SONG, I actually have a gym playlist consisting of nothing but songs Triple H has used for his entrance music (My Time, KOK, The Game, The Game DP Version, For Whom The Bell Tolls, etc).

I said it first and I'll say it again ; BROCK should come out to "Enter Sandman" at Wrestlemania XXIX. Have it like the TRIPS XXII and XXVII entrances where it plays until Lesnar is revealed or something and then have his WWE music hit. Trips would definitely by down for it as I'm guessing he was the one who lobbied for TOLLS and The Memory Remains at the last two Manias. Makes it THAT MUCH MORE EPIC when a theme song plays before a theme song.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

WM18 is an often forgotten one, good shout. Drowning Pool's version of 'The Game' was pretty good. A real shame their lead singer at the time died a few months later.

What does Trips have lined up for his entrance this year? :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh yeah, and he came out of that big smoking thing at 28.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Can't beat Taker coming out to Cash at Mania. I'm still pissed they didn't get the rights for the Streak DVD.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Nothing can top the army of John Cenas at Mania 25 8*D


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

pjc33 said:


> Nothing can top the army of John Cenas at Mania 25 8*D


Oh man. No offense to any of these people (except MGK), but Cena has a streak of terrible entrances. 25 with the 99 Cenas, 26 with the Honor Guard (didn't mind that AS much) 27 with the Gospel choir, 28 with MGK's tatted white ass calling him an underdog (dat heat)

Edit: The only thing that saved him at 25 was his Word Life theme playing.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

I think he even had a marching band play his theme music as he ran to the ring at 24. So if you wanna count that one it's 5 in a row for ol' John boy.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My Time is my fave theme music by anyone ever probably.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

What about 22? That was rough


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This year's Chamber match is really great, but didn't hold up as well on a re-watch. 

When Henry comes in and fucks shit up, THAT'S when the match starts being 365839 different kinds of awesome, but once Henry gets eliminated it almost feels like they're somewhat coasting out there, maybe it's just an Orton thing (who knows). The Jericho-Bryan beginning was solid as was the dissolving relationship of Bryan-Kane, hell even Swaggie had a damn good performance, this just missed the "VIOLENT" aspect of what the match is supposed to be which is my gripe with a ton of the new age Cell matches also. 

Sure the Chamber is used a few times but it's just like they're dipping their toes into what the Chamber is really capable of. Henry goes out and steals the show yet lasts less than anybody else in the match? OKAY.... Whatever you say WWE. Hell in a Cell/Elimination Chamber matches that happen at their respective PPVs are losing their luster fast and I fear that it won't be long before we're reduced to constant mediocrity with the once highly touted gimmick matches. This was still really, really great but not close to being a classic encounter in any sense of the word. 

**** 1/4* for this one ATM.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

96powerstroker said:


> What about 22? That was rough


Maybe it's because I'm near Chicago but I liked his entrance, the gangsta/crime boss theme was pretty cool in my book. I also liked Triple H's entrance...except his outfit. Lillian listing all his credentials was a neat little moment. 


The Cerebal Assassin
The Game
The King Of Kings
The 10 Time Champion
Triple H!

:HHH2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The gimmick PPV idea has been brought up before. More than one HIAC or EC match on a card is stupid. The chamber match is one thing, but having Hell in a Cell at the beginning of a fued (Punk/Ryback) ruins its luster. 

Did you know that there have been 16 EC matches, with 10 in the last five years? Of course they doubled up for several years in a row, but still. 

2009 HIAC was overkill because they had three, and Punk/Taker went on FIRST. Legacy/DX made sense, as it was the third match in their feud, but Orton/Cena was the second of that particular one on one series. I think they were just running out of ideas for Orton/Cena.

Same thing the next year. Kane/Taker HIAC match was just a pit stop on the way to Bragging Rights. 

2011 I'm willing a pass to, because of MARK HENRY, but that was only the second match with Orton. Then Del Rio/Cena/Punk. They used the cell to have Miz/Truth return and attack the three inside with DAT GAME coming in and getting his shots in after.

Hate the gimmick PPV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Maybe it's because I'm near Chicago but I liked his entrance, the gangsta/crime boss theme was pretty cool in my book. I also liked Triple H's entrance...except his outfit. Lillian listing all his credentials was a neat little moment.
> 
> 
> The Cerebal Assassin
> ...


Probably my favorite moment in wrestling history honestly. 

That whole match is a memory of itself honestly, if a heel ever gets cheered in a big time match then that's the blueprint it should follow. Trips SLOWLY starts pandering to the crowd whilst still maintaining heelish tactics. The Five Knuckle Shuffle taunt into the crotch chop, when he leans to the fans and throws up the TEN TIMES hand signal, all the way down to that fucking smirk he has on his face during that introduction, amazing.

Probably my all time favorite match now that I think about it. Definitely top five, as it's REALLY special to me.

EDIT : The reason why I'm not as hard on Punk-Ryback is for the simple fact that they used the cell as a psychological factor in the match (how the hell is Punk going to slither out of this one) with Punk using ridiculous tactics to gain an advantage. It's a nice little match but at the same time should have been a blow off match to the greatest feud of our era, Punk vs Cena.

Gimmick PPVs piss me off.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)
15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)
13. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
12. WWE Championship & Intercontinental Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs Ultimate Warrior(c) (Title vs Title ; Wrestlemania VI)
11. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Career Threatening Match ; Wrestlemania XXIV)
10. Undertaker vs Triple H w/ Shawn Michaels Special Referee ( Hell in a Cell ; Wrestlemania XXVIII) *



*9. WWE Championship - The Rock (c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XVII)

“I need to beat you Rock. I need it more then anything you could ever imagine. There can be only ONE…World Wrestling Federation Champion, and it will be Rock…Stone Cold Steve Austin…with all DUE RESPECT" Steve Austin*










This is as big as it gets the two biggest stars in the the industry in front of 70, 000 fans, in the main event of Wrestlemania. The build up for this match was amazing and many speculate the video package is the best of all time. The reception Austin receives was breathtaking. This one starts off immediately no stare down, just brawling. They brawl in and around the ring and then exchange finisher teases. On the outside Rocky slams Austin's head on the announce table, and then goes for a clothesline which Austin reverses and hits his own. Austin begins to choke Rocky on the middle rope, it was evident Austin wanted this win badly. The crowd was so hot for this match, after the blade from Rocky, I love how Austin goes on the attack to the wound and then love the timing of Rocky comebacks. One of the greatest things about this match is the pacing of it, the action never stopped for near 30 minutes. The call backs in this match are stellar, especially Austin in the sharpshooter bloody, shades of Austin/Bret Wm13 and Austin using the million dollar dream only for Rocky to kick up off the turnbuckle Bret style but for only a 2 count. Great storytelling as Austin lost with the same reversal in a classic match against bret at Survivor Series 1996. Austin was truly bringing it all out for this match, he wanted it so badly. Rocky looked out of it until he hits a desperation Stunner to Austin but for only a 2 count. Vince comes out which draws boos, as JR brings up the history between these men. They hit big move after big move till Rocky hits the people's elbow, in which Vince pulls him off Austin. Vince was helping Austin What the hell, as Rocky chased Vince he walked right into the Rock Bottom by Austin but still only a 2 count. Austin calls Vince to hit Rocky with the chair as he does, Rocky still kicks out he refused to die. Then Rocky hits a desperation stunner, only for Vince to catch the eye of the ref so Rocky goes after him, only to turn around into the Stunner and still he kicks out. Austin blasts him with a chair shot and still a 2 count, Austin goes crazy and destroys a prone Rocky with the chair and pins Rocky for the 3. 

The crowd goes crazy, and totally looked past the heel turn with Austin and Vince shaking hands. First off what was the WWE thinking if you want to have a Austin heel turn why try in Texas, that's like trying to turn Punk heel in Chicago it just ain't gonna happen. However this match is amazing, one of the absolute biggest matches ever and so easy to sit through. The action was great, the storytelling was great truly a match that will be remembered forever. However I'm not a fan of the ending, I think after the last stunner or Chair shot it should of ended, it made Rocky look god like but it seemed to much for me personally. A Wrestlemania epic, which just slightly for me edges out there Wm19 match, and in my book the 9th greatest match in Wrestlemania History.​
***** 1/2*​


*8. Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII)

"Years from now you can tell everybody that you got beat by the best there ever was the Macho King Randy Savage Ohhhhhh yeahhhhhh" Randy Savage*​











Up to this point, or even to this day has there been a match this big in the centre of a card, it almost a felt as if this was the main event of Wrestlemania 7. The crowd was incredibly hot for the start of this match, which is obvious because these guys just ooze charisma. This match is incredibly where I think it's practically perfect besides some little subtle things. This match starts with Savage getting the better hand with the wrestling holds but being outmuscled by the Warrior. Warrior took the early advantage, but Savage fights back with his speed and goes up top for a crossbody only to get caught by the Warrior. Again another counter by Savage with his speed, as Sherri distracts the Warrior so Savage can unload of him. Savage seemed over viciously which makes sense his career is on the line. Warrior fighting back with his power but once again gets countered by the speed and the smarts of the Macho King. All of Savages offence was to the throat of the Warrior, to tire him out which was a great plan. Sherri interferes again but hits Savage accidentally with her shoe, only for Warrior to chase her in which Savage goes for the roll up but Warrior just kicks out. The atmosphere is electric and going crazy even for the smallest things. Savage drops the Warrior and then goes up to hit the elbow, again and again. 5 elbow drops and a kick out by the Warrior, this is unreal, as the Warrior hits his 5 moves of doom and then hits the big splash on the Macho King he also kicks out at 2. Wow this is awesome, this is what happens when you never have superstars kick out of your finishers it creates moments like this. Warrior looks up to the heavens and asks if its his time, Savage fights back and knocks the Warrior to the outside and goes where he is most comfortable to the top rope, but this time he misses and hits the guardrail. As Warrior brings Savage back into the ring, he hits 2 big clotheslines and then 3 huge shoulderblocks as he triumphantly places his foot on Savage and pins him for the 3. 

This is an incredibly hot match, and one of the greatest spectacles I have seen, it was the ultimate battle between good and evil, speed versus strength. The greatest thing however came after as Sherri attacks Savage, Elizabeth comes and saves him. After there gaze at each other, Savage embraces Elizabeth and places her on his shoulder one more time. Elizabeth then pulls down the rope as she does for Savage only for him to refuse and do it for her, what a nice touch. Without a doubt a top 5 moment in Wrestlemania History, which nearly overshadows this amazing match. This match is incredible take away the 5 elbows which annoyed me and this match is perfect. Say what you will about the Warrior he brought it when the lights were on bright. Amazing atmosphere, storytelling and drama makes this the 8th greatest match in Wrestlemania history.​
***** 3/4​*


*7. Intercontinental Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III) 

"I am the lord and master of the ring, and you’re going to find that out, one athlete to another, right now! You can’t be with me, NO! History BECKONS THE MACHO MAN, YEAH!” Randy Savage*​








You can't call yourself a wrestling fan if you haven't seen this match, without a doubt it's one of the most famous matches in wrestling history. This is where the term stealing the show came from and is still talked about today by some as the greatest match in WWE history. Many WWE superstars stated that this match inspired them to be sports entertainers. First off its in front of the largest audience in Wrestling History, so the atmosphere is absolutely electric. The action starts fast with deep arm drags by Steamboat, then he lifts Savage for a little payback choke, as the crowd goes crazy. Savage then retreats outside the ring as Steamboat chased him and as he entered back into the ring Savage levels him, smart work by the Macho Man. Steamboat gained the advantage and attacked the arm of Savage, in which Savage pulled the hair to take back the advantage. Savage now hits an elbow to the larynx, in which Monsoon states why hasn't he attacked the larynx from the get go. Ventura's explanation is incredible "Well you gotta wait for your openings Gorilla, you gotta do certain things to open up other things" brilliant. Perfect storytelling as now Savage attacks the larynx. Steamboats selling as per usual was amazing and timed his comebacks to perfection, Steamboat went to his bread and butter his arm drags to take the advantage again. This is where it gets good, the pacing of the next sequence was awesome with multi quick 2 counts and its so hard to keep up with the action. Things fall to the outside and Savage hits a huge double axe handle to Steamboat on the guardrail, he had the match won with a countdown but pulls Steamboat back in to break the count. Savage wanted a pinfall victory as he went up top to hit another double axe handle. Near fall after near fall Savage still couldn't put Steamboat away. Steamboat fought back with chops, and backdropped Savage to the fall were he laid to take a count out now but Steamboat wasn't having it. More amazing back and forth action, this time with Steamboat as the aggressor and he this time couldn't keep the Macho Man down. Roll up by Steamboat, then a roll up by Savage who held the tights still neither man would allow defeat. Savage with another reversal which sees Steamboat take out the referee, as Macho man hits a clotheslines and goes up and hits the Elbow but no referee. Then Savage in an act of desperation goes to bring in the ring bell (Great storytelling as Savage took out Steamboat weeks before with the ring bell) but only for Steele to push him off the top rope and take the bell. Savage then picks up Steamboat for him to reverse it and get the 3 count. 

Maybe the fastest 15 minutes in Wrestlemania history, so much action and 2 counts in this. This was unlike anything the WWE produced at this time. There is a reason this match is still talked about in such high regard today, it's practically perfect the storytelling, the action, the drama are amazing. The million dollar question is if this match is 5 stars, not for me personally but anybody who gives it that I will not judge, I just thing as time goes on the in ring work isn't quite as amazing as it once was. But pretty much in my view as close as you could get to 5 stars. The greatest match in both mens WWE careers for sure and a timeless classic, and in my book the 7th greatest match in Wrestlemania History.​
***** 3/4​*


Sorry been sick for the last 2 weeks with glandular fever, and couldn't be stuffed to do anything so I'm abit behind with my countdown. Only 6 matches left :mark: getting close to the number 1 match in Wrestlemania history.

:hbk


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I just NOW got Wrestlemania 28 on Blu-Ray. First time I've seen the Hell In A Cell and Rock/Cena since it aired.

Hell In A Cell was even better than I remembered, which is weird since all the drama of the streak staying alive isn't there. I'll throw ****1/2 at it, awesome match.

Rock/Cena is also better on a second viewing, I feel horrible for Cena when he comes out..I remember HATING the fact that Rock won. I like Rock and always will but that win really bothered me more than a wrestling match should. The match itself is really good, atmosphere is off the charts (my favorite thing about Cena's matches) and the wrestling isn't terrible. They both brought it. I'll go ***1/2. 


Overall a pretty good Wrestlemania, Punk/Jericho was my match of the night at ****3/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD DAMN IT, I wanna give you REP but I need to spread... Fantastic work all things considered. Interested in seeing what the top 6 are, expecting four HBK matches and two Bret matches to finish us off here (PS: WTF is glandular fever? That sounds fucking brutal) .

Just finished watching *The Shield vs Team Cena from Elimination Chamber* this year and BAH GAWD what a fucking match. The story here is discrete and is the shining example of how you book a match like this while still protecting your top babyfaces ; whenever The Shield is in trouble, they gang up and make sure that they stay one step ahead of the face team. Brilliant, brilliant work by all 6 men here as Cena is exactly where he's at his best in the BABYFACE IN PERIL position, Ryback gets the hot tag and wreaks havoc like a monster, while Rollins-Ambrose have excellent control segments and bump like beats during Ryback's hot tag.

Reigns came out of this looking so strong as the natural intensity he showed during the match was insane. His mannerisms and body language really put him above guys like Ryback in my mind due to his sheer natural edge for intensity. Rollins-Ambrose-Sheamus-Cena build the match while Reigns-Ryback look intense and great. What a fucking match, an instant classic as The Shield's reign of AWESOME MATCHES lives on. 

Another classic for CENA DA GAWD as well, YAY.

***** 1/4*


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> GOD DAMN IT, I wanna give you REP but I need to spread... Fantastic work all things considered. Interested in seeing what the top 6 are, expecting four HBK matches and two Bret matches to finish us off here (PS: WTF is glandular fever? That sounds fucking brutal) .
> 
> Just finished watching *The Shield vs Team Cena from Elimination Chamber* this year and BAH GAWD what a fucking match. The story here is discrete and is the shining example of how you book a match like this while still protecting your top babyfaces ; whenever The Shield is in trouble, they gang up and make sure that they stay one step ahead of the face team. Brilliant, brilliant work by all 6 men here as Cena is exactly where he's at his best in the BABYFACE IN PERIL position, Ryback gets the hot tag and wreaks havoc like a monster, while Rollins-Ambrose have excellent control segments and bump like beats during Ryback's hot tag.
> 
> ...


It's horrible I think you call in mono in North America, good though I only got a mild dose of it otherwise it can be pretty bad. Apparently like 90% of people get it sometime in there life. Yer no doubt 4 more HBK matches and 2 Bret classics. I see we pretty much have the same top 5  at least someone else has good taste. 

That's Shield vs Team Cena match was amazing and really made me take notice of Reigns, without a doubt the number 2 match this year, just being edged out by Punk/Cena. 
* 
**** 1/4* for me as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Steiner's return was pretty cool moment:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of my favorite segments.

Lone Christopher Nowinski fan. HARVARD HEAT. Fun stuff.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

I liked his wm22 myself just had to.ask to see what ppl thought. 

Gimmick ppv is a waste

I want real hiac matches like the good ones taker vsFoley, 6 man , hhh vs Nash imho, 

Same with TLC matches I want e&c, Dudleyz , hardyz


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't complain with the recent TLC matches given. 6 man was one of the companies stronger & the RAW match was pretty damn good. If not a callback to having a legit feud having a big blowoff match not slated on a gimmick PPV. I know it was at first, but WWE giving it to fans following the delay of Punk's injury was a nice touch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm a bit TOO late to the party, but since this is the DVD/Match/Show/Triple H Ring Attire Discussion Thread, here's one for ya:










IF YA NOT DOWN WITH DAT BEARD, WE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA: SLEDGEHAMMER SHOT.


Now, back into business:

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004:* **. Before I get into the real title matches, wanna point out about this one. Happened on the night of the Draft Lottery, and it was set up by Eric Bischoff being pissed at Paul Heyman not only getting Triple H drafted to Smackdown, but he also had gotten Eddie/HHH for the WWE Title to happen that very night (terrific match btw). Bischoff decided that, no matter who was next, his next drafted would get a World Title shot on the spot - and since it was Rhyno, it happened. It was essentially a squash, but a fun one. Next.

*Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004:* ****3/4. It would've been really, really hard for them to try and beat their WM 20 instant classic, that's for sure. Not only that, but it would also have a really hard time upstaging the Orton/Foley Hardcore Match earlier on this very show as the true Match Of The Night honored. Which match truly stole the show at Backlash '04 has been a huge debate, but both matches are fully deserving of it for their own reasons. In this one, particularly, what I dug the most was they didn't even bother in doing the same of what they did at Mania. They tried to create a whole new story for the match. In the Mania match, Hunter and Shawn wanted to beat each other up, and for them Benoit was just the wiper fooling around in between and that didn't deserve a place amongst them. Now, they don't think twice into going directly to get Benoit to suffer, even teaming up at some points. Another thing was that Benoit showed a meaner streak, being more aggressive and less "do it for the people" as he was in their 1st Triple Threat. With the aid of an awesome Montreal crowd, and just about the perfect (but predictable) finish, this rematch may have not topped the original, but it was sure as hell damn close.

*Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004:* ****. Their February match was very good too, but with the World Heavyweight Title on the line, the stakes were far higher than just a simple grudge match. For starters, you get the CHOP TRADE, which I always mark out for. Like in about 99.9% of all his major matches, HBK does a terrific job of adapting to his opponent's style in order to keep up with his wrestling, as in this case he displays his own side of Benoit's matwork, crisp skill and trademark aggressiveness. But Benoit also displays his own HBK'ish side, showing a much faster, more athletic and more showman type of wrestling too. Some of the counters are dope, the wrestling is as crisp, stiff and competitive as you'll ever get in a TV match, the crowd was pretty neat too. HBK sorta played the heel, as he worked over the bloody mess of Benoit with a real mean side, but the crowd wouldn't care because both of them were really over. Maybe with 5 or 10 more minutes, they could've delievered something really, really fantastic, but what we got was terrific too. "Fun Fact": obviously not counting the one he did to HHH and Benoit at Mania 20 since that was two men, this is the first time we got to witness HBK's Asai Moonsault against one man.

*Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004:* ****. One has to agree - Benoit really had a hell of a WHC run. Too bad Vinny Mac is trying to force our minds believe that instead of an amazing wrestler getting his well-paid dues, we have to remember this portion of the WWE as the time the World Heavyweight Title has gone missing, only to be found by Randy Orton in the middle of the ring at SummerSlam. Anywho, good ol' Wolverine got his chance to show the world why he was the Goddamn guy, as he got Kane into his best singles performance since the 2001 Royal Rumble, or maybe even since the stellar Undertaker WM 14 match. Once again, you had really crisp and stiff wrestling displayed by mostly Benoit, but Kane also distributed here his own technical side, as he kept up with Benoit in every corner to deliever a sound match here. They countered pretty much everything in their own arsenal while they tried something new as well, as Benoit spawned his more powerful and methodical side while Kane stepped up his pace into something of a faster and more wrestling style. The crowd was really into it as well. Awesome stuff and another great match for Benoit's WHC run.

*NEXT: *Triple H confronts some dude named Krispin Wah, a retard steps up to the big leagues, and man vs. "ghost" in 60 minutes...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Taker's entrance at WM27, anyone know if his entrance with the Cash music is on YT?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HIGH KENNY


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No more GAME attire discussion. 

I need to re-watch that Benoit/HBK WHC match from raw you reviewed ATF. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on the iron man match too. I'm excited about watching that again a few matches down the line in my Aitch Aitch Aitch/Krispin Wah project (which I'll probably begin today.) (Y)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I rewatched TLC 2012, because IMO is as good as ER or WM:

Scholars/Luchadores- **3/4
Cesaro/Truth- **1/2
Barret/Kingston- ***
Shield/Team Hell No&Ryback- ****1/2
Naomi/Eve- *
Sheamus/Show- ***1/2
3MB/DEl Rio&Miz&Brawler- *1/2
Ziggler/CEna- ****.

Great matches here, really good ones. It was a good way to start the Road to Wrestlemania


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004:* ***3/4. It would've been very hard for them to beat their No Mercy 2000 classic, but they tried, and they had a very good contest on their own too. Now, don't get me wrong - it was painfully obvious H was not winning the title at that point, wheater you predicted it now or back then 9 years ago. And in retrospective, this WORLD TITLE match served for nothing else but hype for the HHH/Eugene match at SummerSlam. However, let's look at the positives - the match was pretty damn great. Matwork? Really good. Wrestling counters? Plenty of them, and as to expect with Benoit and Hunter, damn crisp at that. Admitedlly, 30 minutes for this was perhaps a little too long, especially when the finish I could see coming 1000 miles away. And I didn't expect myself saying it from a Benoit/HHH match, but there were some small bits in between that I found legit dull. Still, these two put on a hell of an underrated match, that is overshadowed by the Orton/Edge match earlier on this night but really does deserve a bit better.

*Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004:* ***. OK, only one out of two: either Chris Benoit in 2004 was really that damn good, or Nick Densmore is actually a pretty excellent worker. For 7 minutes, it obviously felt rushed as hell, but these two had a pretty decent match together for what it was. While the Eugene gimmick itself was crap, the dude played it to perfection, not missing a step on it during the whole segment, from the beggining of the match to the beating up by Evolution. And I chuckled a little at seeing Eugene copy Benoit's moves pretty well. For what he's worth, he may just be one of the GOAT move-thieves ever. Most of this match was a Benoit showcase, but that's obviously not a bad thing at all, especially in 2004.

*Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004:* ****. And then I looked at myself complaining for 30 minutes being too much at Vengeance. But then again, 30 minutes for one fall is what I mean. Benoit is essentially a semigod of the wrestling mat. And when he's not at weak points, Hunter can do pretty much no wrong either. In circumstances like this, how could I expect them to flop? This was pretty great. Well, when I say great, I mean as a match itself. While everything about it was well performed - the heel/face dynamics, the terrific wrestling and matwork, the pace of the match that had to be controlled for an entire hour - I wouldn't exactly call it a great Iron Man match. Angle/Lesnar, Rock/HHH, those are ones I call great for their categories. However, as a match itself, this rocked. Overlooked as hell, if you ask me.

*NEXT:* The World Title is found at SummerSlam, Triple H gets pissed, and HBK is injured...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Benoit/HHH from RAW July 2004 is a personal favorite TV match of mine


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Benoit/HHH Ven 04- ***1/2
Benoit/HHH Raw Ironman- ***1/2

(I hold the Vengeance match in higher regard)

Can't remember the Eugene match at all aside from the fact he almost beat Benoit, thought he did, ran around the ring with the title, and then got the ass-whooping of a lifetime.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Are there any hidden gem Booker T matches out there?


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

This morning, I watched Ric Flair Vs. Bruiser Brody, from Japan, for the NWA Title. Ric Flair was billed from Minneapolis, MN instead of Charlotte, NC. What's that all about? I never knew he was billed from anywhere else.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I've seen a couple of matches where he is billed from Minnesota. He was 'a slight relative' of the Anderson's.

As for the Booker T matches, I can't honestly think, I try to avoid watching his matches. But I wouldn't be surprised if he had the occasional good match somewhere in 1993 or 1994, that few have heard of. It would be in Harlem Heat, though.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Are there any hidden gem Booker T matches out there?


I remember liking King Booker/Rey Mysterio from Great American Bash 06 more than expected when I last watched it.


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

Coffey said:


> This morning, I watched Ric Flair Vs. Bruiser Brody, from Japan, for the NWA Title. Ric Flair was billed from Minneapolis, MN instead of Charlotte, NC. What's that all about? I never knew he was billed from anywhere else.


That was before the original Horsemen. When Flair was aligned with the Andersons/Minnesota Wrecking Crew. Flair was billed as their cousin. So maybe that's why. It's explained in the Horsemen DVD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> I've seen a couple of matches where he is billed from Minnesota. He was 'a slight relative' of the Anderson's.
> 
> As for the Booker T matches, I can't honestly think, I try to avoid watching his matches. But I wouldn't be surprised if he had the occasional good match somewhere in 1993 or 1994, that few have heard of. It would be in Harlem Heat, though.


I've seen very little of Harlem Heat so I'd actually like to check them out. (Y)



Clique said:


> I remember liking King Booker/Rey Mysterio from Great American Bash 06 more than expected when I last watched it.


I remember thinking that match was solid but I haven't watched in years. Might give it a look today as I like that matchup. Plus Rey was on fire in '06, imo.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Don't know the general consensus for it but I liked Booker T/HHH's Wrestlemania rematch in 2003.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Love the Ironman match between Benoit and HHH. Not the best of its kind, but awesome no less.

Too bad I missed the attire discussion but I'll say this. I'm a mark for Benoit's red attire from that Ironman match, specially the earlier variation that was in _Smackdown vs. Raw_ and he wore in the Royal Rumble.

Also Orton's orange trunks... :mark:


----------



## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

In regards to Booker, when I think of his matches I instantly think of the best of 7 with Benoit to determine the number 1 contender for the TV title held by Fit Finlay.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Royal Rumble 2007 - Last Man Standing Match For The WWE Championship: John Cena vs. Umaga (w/Armando Alejandro Estrada)*

This was some pretty good stuff, although the finish felt a little anti-climactic to me. Umaga's rib work was AWESOME and most of the match and leaves Cena hurting, but he refuses to quit. Cena comeback with his signature moves and one-ups the impact by landing them all on the ring steps was great too. And just when he thinks he’s going to put down Umaga, Cena’s back gives out on the FU and his head gets caught between Umaga and the ring steps! :mark: Umaga looked like a unstoppable BEAST and Cena had to use every possible advantage to get him the victory. Highlight of the match was when Cena was laid out on the ECW announce table, and Umaga runs across and over the Raw and Smackdown tables for the huge splash Cena, but Cena moves and inevitably Umaga wipes out the ECW announce table. Which would lead to the downfall of this monster. This is quite possible the best Cena performance I've ever seen. ****1/2


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Booker T vs Eddie for the WWE title on SD in 04 is pretty awesome... 

The best of 7 is With Benoit is collectively his best work...


Some of his worst is that best of 5 series with :cena ... Those are abysmal and should be avoided like a plague...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena vs Booker best of 5 was terrible. They did have a passable match in 2005, though. Shortly before the draft, Booker also had a decent match or two against Eddie and Angle around that time.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

*Smackdown 3rd February 2000 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*

So, we begin with Benoit's debut WWF match. He doesn't even have a proper theme or titantron video at this point. After some trash talk, the opening few minutes are filled with some hard hitting strikes but nothing major. Benoit tries to lock in the Crossface but HHH is wise to it. Benoit looks a little rusty at first and this match takes a while to get going before the action spills to the outside, and HHH drop toeholds Benoit into the steel steps. Nasty looking bump. Benoit gets back in control when he finally hits some big time offense in the form of triple German suplexes. He goes to the top rope but HHH pushes the referee into the ropes to knock him down. A perfect superplex from the top and it looks like Triple H is heading for the win, before Benoit locks him in the Crossface and The Game taps! But the referee is still down. Benoit heads for the top rope again and this time hits the flying headbutt, but only gets a long two. With the referee still dazed, Trips strikes with a low blow and finishes Benoit off with an awesome Pedigree. How much better did the Pedigree look back then when Hunter would keep their hands locked? Beautiful.

A solid enough match, restricted by the time and Benoit looking a little rusty for whatever reason. Perhaps it was nerves. Not much psychology or story telling in this one, it was basically a brawl, and HHH's win completed DX's 'clean sweep' over the new guys The Radicalz that night. A lot better to come, but a steady opening.

***3/4*

*Raw 7th February 2000 - Triple H, Chris Benoit, X-Pac, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn vs The Rock, Cactus Jack, Rikishi & Too Cool*

This matched marked the first time Trips and Benoit teamed together, and this match is seriously one of the funnest matches ever to watch. Just pure enjoyment. It starts with an all out brawl, and the camera doesn't know what to focus on. It's carnage everywhere until we finally get some wrestlers in the ring and it starts to take the shape of a match. From here on out it's great fun to watch. The crowd is absolutely red hot as The Rock gets huge cheers even when he's simply on the apron, and HHH gets some very loud 'asshole' chants. There's some great moves you don't often see used here, such as Perry Saturn hitting a nice double-underhook belly-to-belly suplex, and a reverse suplex by Scotty 2 Hotty. Rikishi hits a really violent looking samoan drop on Benoit, too. Too Cool were a team that were always really fun to watch, with Scotty's 'Worm' and Grand Master Sexay putting on his goggles on the top rope before hitting the big leg drop. The Radicalz take control of this match for a while, isolating the Grand Master before he counters with a double DDT and makes the tag to Cactus Jack. From there on out it descends into carnage again before the lights go out and out comes Paul Bearer (RIP), followed by Kane who takes everyone out.

Not a technical masterpiece but a seriously fun match where every member of each team played their part. The Radicalz already looked like a cohesive unit at this point and this match definitely helped them get over more. Steph being on commentary during this match was pretty entertaining too.

******

*So Far:
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4*​


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Did a randomized list for what I'm going to watch this weekend. Starting with the Jericho and then Flair. :mark:


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Finished watching SuperBrawl '91 and despite the lackluster undercard sans Pillman/Windham, the rest of the card delivered in a major way. Really awesome PPV that I rarely ever see talked about or maybe I just don't pay good enough attention. Steiners/Sting & Luger was all kinds of awesome, Anderson/Eaton was good, Pillman/Windham was really good, and Flair/Fujinami was great. Check this shit out. 

Started watching Great American Bash '91 as well. Pretty lame so far, but the aforementioned PPV was the same way and that turned out to be awesome so hopefully that'll be the case here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Purely by coincidence lol:

*Triple-H vs Chris Benoit - No Mercy 2000*

Tagged Classic version - Unblurred/Unedited:

https://hotfile.com/dl/199408286/c33679c/HHH_vs_Chris_Benoit_-_No_Mercy_2000.avi.html


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Are there any hidden gem Booker T matches out there?


At Superbrawl '98 he has back to back TV Title matches with Rick Martel & Perry Saturn. I remember enjoying them both. (Y)


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Triple H DVD news from WWE DVD News


> WWE have confirmed the go ahead of the Triple H DVD this year, while also revealing that Batista has been interviewed for the feature. The news was shared today through the official @WWE Twitter account and indicates the main feature will most likely be a documentary.
> 
> According to the latest draft of the 2013 WWE DVD schedule posted here last month, the Triple H DVD and Blu-ray will be released on September 24, 2013.
> 
> Production is under way. Below is a new photo of Batista on set with WWE.


Link - http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-confirms-triple-h-dvd-blu-ray/37515/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 12 Review in my BLOG~!

SPOILER: Iron Man still sucks .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Elimination Chamber 2013


World Heavyweight Championship - Alberto Del Rio(c) vs The Big Show : ** 3/4*

US Championship - Antonio Cesaro(c) vs The Miz : *** 3/4*

Elimination Chamber - Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Jack Swagger : **** 1/4*

The Shield vs John Cena/Ryback/Sheamus : ***** 1/4*

Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston : *1/2 **

Kaitlyn vs Tamina Snuka : *1/4 **

WWE Championship - The Rock(c) vs CM Punk : ** 3/4*


OH ALBERTO, how I hate you so. This was a major step up from their Royal Rumble Last Man Standing match in the sense that it was worked better and there was less error from both men (as a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it was worked fairly well here), but the storytelling was just off in this one. "YOU NEVER PINNED ME BEFORE ALBERTO" .... (Proceeds to make Big Show tap out) ..... REAL FUCKING GREAT STORYTELLING GUYS. The DVD version has the ending botch removed in a smart move, and I guess overall this match isn't TOO bad... It's just bland and uninspired, something I can't stand for.

Antonio Cesaro gets a great match out of the match? You're fucking reading that right. Miz comes in with a big bandage around his shoulder so what does Cesaro (ever the psychologist) proceed to do? ATTACK THE FUCKING INJURED SHOULDER. Hell, even Miz attacks Cesaro's knee all match in hopes of applying the figure four.... This is probably Miz's best non gimmick singles since 2010 which may be absolutely terrible but whatever, it's a great match that could have been better if they gave it more time (felt so dirty saying that) as the ending was quite abrupt.

Already talked about the next two matches in great detail so go back and find that yourself fuckers because I'm lazy as shit right now :lol. In all honesty though, The Chamber match has it's great moments and is overall a really good match, but it has too much coasting at times and doesn't suit the gimmick at all besides the HENRY DESTRUCTION PORTION. The Shield tag is a REALLY special match that everybody needs to see as it's a classic "singles star vs TEAM" type affair with some top notch storytelling involved, a great FIP performance by Cena, Ryback's greatest performance ever (he has found his niche' in these things as the guy who gets the hot tag), with guys like Rollins/Ambrose/Sheamus building the foundation of the match for Reigns to shine like a star once it's all said and done. It's a match that's going to go unappreciated in wrestling lore perhaps, but I'll always remember it as an instant classic and another fantastic match for THE SHIIIEEEELDDD!

Dolph-Kofi happens. It's short. It sucks. Moving on.

Whores match happens. It's short. It sucks. Moving on.

Okay, now we're at Roid-Punk II and all I can say is WHAT A FUCKING IMPROVEMENT HERE. Is it a good match? Fuck no, but it is GOD compared to their first horrendous encounter for sure. It has a solid opening and a decentish finish with some good near falls and decent spots throughout (the positives), but it also features a long and terrible segment in the middle of the match that serves only to help The Roid catch his breath due to going all out for the first two minutes... GOOD GUY WWE CHAMPION ROID. The "Champion loses his advantage" stip works for a little bit until it goes completely out of whack and starts making no difference into the match's plot, which pissed me off a lot due to The Roid's inability to even acknowledge the stipulation on the go home show. Punk was great as always, The Roid sucked less than he did in the Rumble match but still SUCKED (it's not possible for anybody besides Khali to have two consecutive performances that bad), and while the match certainly had it's moments... It's just not good and the middle portion is horrendous.

So yeah, obviously this is a step up from the terrible, terrible Royal Rumble show that happened a few weeks before this, mainly due to the classic Shield match which is complimented by a good Elimination Chamber match, a good Miz-Cesaro match, and... Well that's kind of it. Our PPV title matches are still shit, but I recognize how temporary this is because as of this writing we are 16 days away from perhaps the greatest WWE Champion ever regaining his belt on the grandest stage of them all, then we'll be back to some great matches once again.

That being said, take away The SHIELD tag and this is almost as bad as The Rumble. SUPER CENA SAVES THE DAY ONCE AGAIN. GOOD GUY JOHN.

:cena3

*Cal Scale Rating : 10 (up 7 from the Rumble)*

*Personal Rating : 5.5/10 (4 for the SHIELD)*



​


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

That Jericho Doc is amazing, can't believe I never watched it until now... onto the matches. You guys have stars for it?



> Disk 2
> 
> "Cowboy" Chris Jericho vs. Lance T. Storm
> Calgary, Alberta October 2, 1990
> ...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good write up on WM12 Cal, especially the iron man match. I'd personally rate it a little higher but not by much. That first half is just yawnsville as you mentioned.

What Jericho doc is that, SaviorBeeRad? The 'Breaking The Code' one?


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just finished watching Great American Bash '91. Yeah, fuck this garbage PPV. Too much mediocrity and useless gimmick matches. Luger/Windham was the only thing that showed any semblance of being good. 

Halloween Havoc '91 up next! Chamber of Horrors here I come!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just saw the post about the HHH DVD. :mark:

September 24th, 3 days after my birthday. That's awesome timing. :cool2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What Jericho doc is that, SaviorBeeRad? The 'Breaking The Code' one?


Yeah.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rocking a "Salute The Cenation" shirt ATM about to watch Cena Vs Lord Tensai in an Extreme Rules match from last year.

CRAZY how Tensai went from main eventing RAW with John Cena to dancing in lingerie with Brodus less then a year afterwards. Think I'm gonna stay on my JOHN BOY SHITTTTT for a while.

:cena3

*John Cena vs Lord Tensai (RAW 16/4/2010)* : Extreme Rules Match here for John Boy as he prepares himself for the incoming war with BROCK at Extreme Rules. Tensai actually looks and wrestles like a monster at this point believe it or not, and Tensai's ability to work a control segment coupled with Cena's GOAT FIP ability it makes for a nice little RAW main event. Once again we get a screwy but shocking finish and a crossface being called an "OMG STF! STF!" by Michael Fucking Cole, but all in all this was a really well put together little match that builds up to today's "REDEMPTION" story one year in advance.

If you're a fan of John Boy (and I know everybody is), watch for his nice little FIP sequence.

*** 1/4*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips DVD getting confirmed is :mark:. Finally.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If that set is nothing but repeats I'm going to fucking *MURDER* somebody.

Watching the CENA/PTP segment and inpromptu Cena-Young match from RAW earlier this week, this shit is gold. The Prime-Time Players are fucking entertaining as all hell, while Cena did awesome on the stick as usual.

COCOA PEBBLES.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Better have the Jericho Fully Loaded match on it. That's the only ***** (or near 5 star match, I need to give it a fucking re-watch) WWE match that I don't have on DVD/blu ray.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm hoping to get a few unreleased GEMS such as his title win in 2000 against BIG SHOW and perhaps the 2006 number one contender's Triple threat and all that good shit along with the 2000 EPIC PAIR OF PPV MATCHES that haven't been released yet.

No doubt we'll get 2-3 GEMS and the rest being repeated drivel.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Anyone have A link for :cena vs JBL I quit, all I see is praise for it and haven't seen since it happened and wanna see what all the hoopla is all about... I looked on DM and YT but came up empty, don't really feel like getting the whole damn ppv either....Could be some green stuff in it for you...


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I can guarantee the Triple H set will have vs. Undertaker from WM 28 and at least one match vs. Michaels.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think there is anything they could release on the new HHH set to make me want to buy it. Maybe the Texas 10 Man from 2000, but that has Benoit so that's a no go.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't care what's on it, I'm buying it. The doc should be GOAT. If he takes an interest in the match listing we could get a few gems but I don't see him being as hands on as others tbh. Wonder what they're going to call it though. THE GAME and THE KING OF KINGS have already been taken. Could have called it THE EVOLUTION OF THE GAME, but they gave that to Orton. 

THE TRIPLE H STORY: HOW TO BANG AND BURY YOUR WAY TO THE TOP OF THE WRESTLING INDUSTRY

:HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll be downloading the documentary, but that's it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If that GAME DVD includes Benoit in it, it's automatically the GOAT. Surely they have to go in-depth with his 2001 injury beyond a small clip of him breaking up the Walls of Jericho? (they're lucky Benoit was laying outside or else they wouldn't have even showed that bit)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004:* ****1/2. True story as reported by Vince McMahon and company: Randy Orton found the World Heavyweight Championship in the middle of the ring and became the holder of it, and essentially turning face in the process. The reported true story: Orton defeated Triple H in a tournament to win the vacant World Heavyweight Title. The ACTUAL true story: Orton beat Chris Benoit in a hard-fought instant classic to become the champion. Say what you will about Orton's idiotic 1st face run, but you can't deny that it had an excellent kick-off. A trade of Sharpfuckingshooters. Chris Benoit hits 7 Germans, which comes close to his 10 Suplex record he set in the Edmonton SD match against SCSA (GOAT TV match). Wrestling reversals are fantastic. The pace is controlled terrifically well. Even though he was a heel for most of the match, Orton has the crowd in the absolute palm of his hands - the same crowd, Toronto, that had shitted hard all over this edition of SUMMERFUCKINGSLAM. A true shame the WWE will never recognize this match ever again (as most of Benoit's matches have been, apart from the '04 Rumble and possibly the WM 20 Main Event).

*Orton/HHH, Unforgiven 2004:* ***1/2. It's a full star less good than the Benoit/Orton classic, but it's still very good on its own. One of the very few standard Singles matches between these two I'd say that, since they had not good chemistry in my opinion (WrestleMania 25 is a sheer proof of that). In this particular match, it was interesting to see how much of a mean streak both men would show, given their then-recent hostility towards each other. And unlike their Mania match, they didn't fail to deliever on the department of ruthless aggression incorporated into the storyline. They had a fast-paced, fun and dynamic match that, despite its cheap screwjob finish, may just be the one match WWE highlights for Orton's 1st face run (because for them, Krispin Wah never exhisted). Of course, from this point on, Orton's face run falls more downhill than a broken rollercoaster, and the rest as they say is history. 

*HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004:* ***3/4. In a hidden gem that is essentially a must watch for quick and fun match fans, the three guys who were in (supposed, but maybe legit, for this particular instance who knows) vote to face Trips for the World Title, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit and Edge, all wrestled in a really good Triple Threat on Raw before Taboo Tuesday... unfortunely for the Creative team, that was totally sure HBK was going to be the voted guy, good ol' Shawn had a legit leg injury. Well, what can I say other than said injury aided the quality of it. Hunter was a true dick by going the entire match after Shawn's leg, and it's what HayleySabin and others have been saying here - me not knowing if it was selling or just perhaps, legit pain, I was rooting for my 2nd favourite of all time (2nd to STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD) much, much harder than usual. And so was the crowd in attendance for the PPV. A psychology classic, that's for sure. It lived up to its hype as far as I'm concerned, and may just be one of the more underrated matches in both men's careers.

*NEXT:* Maven is GM, a Triple Threat has a non-finish, and a giant birdcage is lowered in a Puerto Rico arena...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You forgot the Orton vs Benoit rematch the night after SS (Raw 16/8/04).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm...-title-match-raw-8-16-2004_sport#.UUzGBLX3CKI

And is there any DVD that includes that SummerSlam match? (other than SS 04 itself) It was obviously omitted from Orton's DVD as well as the History of the WHC so I don't know where else it would fit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OOh-kay... excuse me while I do this. 

Oh, and I don't recall any DVD with it. It isn't on the Hard Knocks DVD either, so unless if it's on some Orton or WHC related DVD (obv. released before that 07 weekend), I don't know either.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not ANYWHERE besides the original DVD... Probably my favorite Orton match for sure.

FUCK. I'm about to get on my SHIELD business against Jericho/Ryback/Sheamus and I wanna see how it holds up. Ryback may be a horrible singles wrestler, but he has certainly found his niche' as a 6 man tag performer who gets the hot tag and fucks shit up... Well maybe that's because his opponents are AMBROSE/ROLLINS/REIGNS.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'll get the Trips DVD if the set doesn't have to many matches I already own. I feel as if the doc will end up on netflix (in US) shortly after so I don't really need to worry about that.

RVD/Trips/Show from '06 plz. Show/Trips from NYR '06 plz.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Triple H retirement DVD after BROCK beats him at Mania?



KingOfKings said:


> *John Cena vs Lord Tensai (RAW 16/4/2010)* : Extreme Rules Match here for John Boy as he prepares himself for the incoming war with BROCK at Extreme Rules. Tensai actually looks and wrestles like a monster at this point believe it or not, and Tensai's ability to work a control segment coupled with Cena's GOAT FIP ability it makes for a nice little RAW main event. Once again we get a screwy but shocking finish and a crossface being called an "OMG STF! STF!" by Michael Fucking Cole, but all in all this was a really well put together little match that builds up to today's "REDEMPTION" story one year in advance.
> 
> If you're a fan of John Boy (and I know everybody is), watch for his nice little FIP sequence.


*2012


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Okay, memo to Spookshow: BUY CM PUNK'S DVD! I'm currently watching it and I'm loving it. It's resurrecting those lost feelings of wanting to become a wrestler when I was younger.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Some RATINGS for some recently brought up matches:

EC 2013 Match- ***1/2
Shield/Super Friends- ***1/2
Punk/Rock II- ***1/4

Benoit/Orton SS 2004- ****
Benoit/Orton Raw after SS 2004- ***1/4
Orton/HHH Unf 2004- **1/2
HBK/HHH TT 2004- ***1/4

Mave/HHH I don't remember being anything special, though I haven't seen it in a long time but it was an interesting match to some degree due to the fact Maven was a low-carder/jobber at the time facing the top heel in the business. And contrary to the usual, it was the face pulling out all the stops to beat the heel.

The triple threat title match between Edge, Benoit, and HHH was great and I have it at ***1/2. Remember this was the time when I really started becoming a mark for Edge, and was pulling for him to win the World title. Then he goes and taps out. 

Edit: HHH doc should be interesting and much like Cal, I'll probably download that, but I'm probably not buying the DVD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Okay, memo to Spookshow: BUY CM PUNK'S DVD! I'm currently watching it and I'm loving it. It's resurrecting those lost feelings of wanting to become a wrestler when I was younger.


It's my favorite DVD WWE's put out. They did such a good job with it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You son of a bitch :lol.

Watching a Zeb Coulter/SWAGGIE promo that happens just before the SHIELD vs Jericho/Sheamus/Ryback and GOD DAMN, I'm feeling Coulter/Swagger so much it's unreal. It's a shame that I don't care about Del Rio in the slightest and it's pretty much a given that he's beating Swagger but fuck, how sweet would it be for Swagger or DOLPH to walk out as World Heavyweight Champion?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Missed this one, apologize for that 

*Orton/Benoit, 8/16/2004:* ***1/4. The rating may be pretty good, but I personally disliked it. Why? Because up until the last 6 or 7 minutes where it picked up and got quite hot, this match was just two long control segments. The 1st half of this approx. 20 minute match was ENTIRELY dominated by Benoit. And then the rest (apart from that timestage I mentioned) is almost entirely dominated by Orton. Now, don't get me wrong: it is Orton and Benoit after all, both of these guys are awesome in the ring and for them to have long and really well sold control segments is good, but I just dislike it too damn hard when a World Title match goes with the champion being ruthlessly dominated by the challenger for 10 minutes, in a 20 FUCKING MINUTE match. 1/2 of the match is domination by the challenger. And Benoit didn't exactly have the excuse of, say, Big Show or Khali in that he was physically credible to dominate a champion for that damn much time. And as far as I'm concerned, neither did Orton have the excuse of being a youngster and Benoit being a veteran - didn't Orton beat Benoit clean for the title one night before? You know, I really HATE that kind of things in a match. That rant done, some of the points of the match were good enough to bump up my rating - some spots, like the dropkick into the barricade, the first few hot work minutes, and the aforementioned sequences of the last few minutes. The aftermath is the remembered deal about this whole segment, and it was PERFECT if you enjoy Heel HHH because this was him at his very best in that role (and overall too I suppose).


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

CM Punk documentary is awesome. Only reason I bought the DVD. Haven't actually watched any matches from the Punk DVD yet. :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SpookshowTony said:


> Okay, memo to Spookshow: BUY CM PUNK'S DVD! I'm currently watching it and I'm loving it. It's resurrecting those lost feelings of wanting to become a wrestler when I was younger.


I enjoyed it too tbh, big fan of Punk myself. I did get a bit annoyed when he was talking about his tattoo's and said "If you dont have tattoo's stating what you believe in, then you dont truly believe in something" Eh? I dont have any tatt's but believe and stand for a lot of values thanks Phil.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Pierre McDunk said:


> It's my favorite DVD WWE's put out. They did such a good job with it.



The next time I go to Newbury Comics, I'm hunting this down.

The only other docs I've seen were Wrestling with Shadows and Mick Foley: Madman Unmasked which is the only WWF(E) video I ever had.


Edit: I'm at the part where Punk signed with WWE but was sent to OVW. PS Hayes is talking and I'm kind of not digging it. Even if he's speaking the truth, lose the douchness.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk doc is awesome. Love all the bluray extras too, you get about another 20 minutes or so of documentary footage. In terms of superstar sets its probably a top 5 must own DVD/Bluray imo. Other 4 are Tombstone: History of The Undertaker, and uhhhh... some others .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

> *Orton/Benoit, 8/16/2004:* ***1/4. The rating may be pretty good, but I personally disliked it. Why? Because up until the last 6 or 7 minutes where it picked up and got quite hot, this match was just two long control segments. The 1st half of this approx. 20 minute match was ENTIRELY dominated by Benoit. And then the rest (apart from that timestage I mentioned) is almost entirely dominated by Orton. Now, don't get me wrong: it is Orton and Benoit after all, both of these guys are awesome in the ring and for them to have long and really well sold control segments is good, but I just dislike it too damn hard when a World Title match goes with the champion being ruthlessly dominated by the challenger for 10 minutes, in a 20 FUCKING MINUTE match. 1/2 of the match is domination by the challenger. And Benoit didn't exactly have the excuse of, say, Big Show or Khali in that he was physically credible to dominate a champion for that damn much time. And as far as I'm concerned, neither did Orton have the excuse of being a youngster and Benoit being a veteran - didn't Orton beat Benoit clean for the title one night before? You know, I really HATE that kind of things in a match. That rant done, some of the points of the match were good enough to bump up my rating - some spots, like the dropkick into the barricade, the first few hot work minutes, and the aforementioned sequences of the last few minutes. The aftermath is the remembered deal about this whole segment, and it was PERFECT if you enjoy Heel HHH because this was him at his very best in that role (and overall too I suppose).


To be honest, I think it makes perfect sense for Benoit to dominate. He had just lost his championship and unlike a cowardly heel, he was a fighting champion who just came out and demanded his rematch clause instead of whining about getting screwed. Orton was unprepared in the beginning of the show while Benoit was as vicious and intense as ever by going all out to win back what meant the world to him. If you look at it from this perspective, it'll make more sense. Plus, it's not 20 minutes long but closer to 15 (discounting the commercial break).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big fan of those Orton/Benoit 04 matches. Thought the Raw match was only slightly behind SS. Still don't think either touches their 2006 SD matches though (the two main ones, No Holds Barred then the other, superior one ).


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching a Zeb Coulter/SWAGGIE promo that happens just before the SHIELD vs Jericho/Sheamus/Ryback and GOD DAMN, *I'm feeling Coulter/Swagger so much it's unreal.* It's a shame that I don't care about Del Rio in the slightest and it's pretty much a given that he's beating Swagger but fuck, how sweet would it be for Swagger or DOLPH to walk out as World Heavyweight Champion?


Sure it's not just Coulter? Zeb's an awesome talker and is carrying this feud, but Swagger completely sucks the life of it. I feel this feud would have A LOT more potential if Zeb was working with a decent talent, unlike Swagger who's awful. 

It would be sweet if DOLPH walks out of Mania as Champion, horrible if Swagger does. It would be much better if Del Rio retains and Ziggler cashes in and becomes the new Champion, to set up a Ziggler/Del Rio feud while Swagger hopefully gets punished post Mania for his DUI.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Choke2Death, yeah that was perhaps the one missing bit in the storytelling, thanks for reminding me of that. Still dislike the fact that the challenger dominated the champion for, as what you just told me, more than half the match. Boggles the hell outta me.


Checked out WWE.com's list of Mick Foley's 12 WILDEST (not best, may I say) matches:

vs Orton Backlash '04
vs Funk Barbed Wire Bunkhouse
vs Vader WCW Saturday Night
vs Rock I Quit
The trilogy with Eddie Gilbert
vs Sabu ECW (where Sabu breaks his ribs)
vs Funk Japan Kawasaki Dream
vs Taker HIAC
vs Austin Over The Edge
vs Show Boiler Room
Spring Stampede Chicago Street Fight
vs Douglas Cyberslam
6-Person Match ONS '06

I'd throw in the Edge WM 22 match in place of the Boiler Room Brawl. And perhaps the 1st Foley/Funk IWA match in place of the Douglas one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Del Rio remaining in the title picture following WM in any way is a lose-lose situation for me. Ziggler/Del Rio feud? Urgh. Del Rio/Swagger continuing their feud? Urgh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Big fan of those Orton/Benoit 04 matches. Thought the Raw match was only slightly behind SS. Still don't think either touches their 2006 SD matches though (the two main ones, No Holds Barred then the other, superior one ).


Don't forget the excellent match before SummerSlam 2005 (and the one in the final SD of 05).

I'd rank them like this:

1. SummerSlam 2004
2. No Holds Barred (27/1/06)
3. Best of Seven Closer (13/1/06)
4. SD 18/8/05
5. Raw 16/8/04
6. SD 30/12/05
7. SD 7/1/06


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top 10 "Superstar" DVDs (off the top of my head, no order) :

CM Punk : Best in the World
Bret "Hitman" Hart : The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be
Mick Foley's "Greatest Hits & Misses" Hardcore Edition
Tombstone : The History of the Undertaker
The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection
Rey Mysterio : Biggest Little Man
"Hard Knocks" : The Chris Benoit Story
Stone Cold Steve Austin : The Bottom Line On The Most Popular Superstar In WWE History
Breaking The Code : Behind The Walls of Chris Jericho
Macho Madness : The Ultimate Randy Savage Collection

Ric Flair Definitive Collection, Ricky Steamboat, Jake Roberts, and a few others are Honorable Mentions.

OH and @*CAL*, that's how I feel as well. No matter if Ziggler cashes in or Swagger wins, Del Rio will still be involved in the WHC picture post Mania which really pisses me off considering that he sucks the life out of literally EVERYTHING he does in my eyes. Everything he does is so fucking uninspired that I can't get over it, and the only thing that would make him borderline mediocre (JUST mediocre, not terrible) would be putting him with Henry and having 99 percent of the match being a MARK control segment. 

Del Rio SUCKS. The title picture hasn't been this bad for me EVER, as in this is the worst it has gotten.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Top 10 "Superstar" DVDs (off the top of my head, no order) :
> 
> CM Punk : Best in the World
> Bret "Hitman" Hart : The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be
> ...


Heartbreak & Triumph plz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Downloaded _The Definitive Collection_ and _Best There Is, Best There Was, Best There Ever Will Be_ a week ago and really excited about watching the entire doc + matches in them. Might have a full month for myself all alone at home come summer so I'm excited about connecting the PC to the big TV and enjoy some wrestling while relaxing!

One of my favorite "superstar documentaries" is _The Evolution of a Predator_. Might have to redownload it again. Loved the documentary part, specially when he talks about his darkest times.

And on the topic of the WHC feud for WM29, I don't know who bores me more. Alberto Del Rio was good for a while but I've lost interest pretty fast and Jack Swagger is a heat killer that takes me out of ANYTHING I would otherwise show _some_ interest in.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SHIT. That would be an honorable mention for me in all honesty, like the "My Journey" set just as much if not better, so consider them both to be honorable mentions .

1 and 2 would be Flair and Bret's sets respectively IMO... The rest is kind of a wash depending on your tastes. Mysterio's DVD is certainly a candidate for GOAT as well.

OH and you mean essentially "The Randy Orton Experience"? Alot of people hate on that doc as well as the Cena one, but as a WWE FAN I fucking loved both of them, might give The ORTON one another watch later but we'll see what happens.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Del Rio remaining in the title picture following WM in any way is a lose-lose situation for me. Ziggler/Del Rio feud? Urgh. Del Rio/Swagger continuing their feud? Urgh.


Well he's bound to get a rematch if he loses at Mania. And if Orton turns at Mania and starts feuding with Sheamus, who else are they going to have in the World Title picture? I'm not really high on Del Rio/Ziggler just because Del Rio's made Ziggler tap out like 4 times on free TV, so the feud would be silly and the matches aren't fresh, but I'll take it if it means Ziggler's World Champion.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hogan/Vince (WM 19)

Amazing. You know it, this was 20 years in the making, and they played that premise to perfection. A perfect mix of "brutal" hardcore brawling and cartoonish escapades that put WWF/E on the map. Vince's facial expressions were pure gold, and Hogan's superheroic comeback was off the fucking charts. That gives me goosebumps every damn time. Holy shit. Love this match.

****3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> SHIT. That would be an honorable mention for me in all honesty, like the "My Journey" set just as much if not better, so consider them both to be honorable mentions .
> 
> 1 and 2 would be Flair and Bret's sets respectively IMO... The rest is kind of a wash depending on your tastes. Mysterio's DVD is certainly a candidate for GOAT as well.
> 
> OH and you mean essentially "The Randy Orton Experience"? Alot of people hate on that doc as well as the Cena one, but as a WWE FAN I fucking loved both of them, might give The ORTON one another watch later but we'll see what happens.


I've seen My Life from Cena and it was alright. I still don't think he has that "definitive" DVD to his name, though. Orton's story is one of the more interesting ones to me. I like it when the story goes beyond "I was a wrestling fan as a young kid and have achieved my dream now".

These old school DVDs on the likes of Jake Roberts and Flair are essential to me because they're the easiest and best way to become more familiar with old school wrestling from pre-90s.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Never seen the Orton DVD. It's on netflix and I've planned on watching it, just never followed through.

I have Hogan/Vince at ***1/4. Thought it was really fun and Vince covered in blood slowly creeping his face above the apron was awesome. Just didn't think it was anything amazing.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Hogan/Vince is like ***1/2 from me. I preferred HBK/Vince from WrestleMania 22 personally.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

@*Choke2Death*, I meant The John Cena Experience... My life has like a disc of nonsense on it IIRC :lol.

I can't believe somebody has Hogan/Vince at almost *******. My mind is fucking blown, but props for having BALLS.

I repeat.... *BALLS*.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I haven't seen the Raw Top 100 moments discussed here. I got through the bottom 50 last night before bed, and I'm going to watch the top 50 during my basketball break. 

A lot of stupid moments in the bottom half, but also alot of things I that felt should have been higher, but I'm assuming there are even bigger things to come. 

Comments coming...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> @*Choke2Death*, I meant The John Cena Experience... My life has like a disc of nonsense on it IIRC :lol.


Oh, I've been meaning to watch that DVD too for quite a while. How good is the match listing?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Disc 2

Match #5 in the Best of 5 Series for the United States Championship
John Cena vs Booker T
No Mercy – October 3, 2004

#1 Contenders Match for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania 21
John Cena vs Kurt Angle
No Way Out – February 20, 2005

Triple Threat Match for the WWE Championship
John Cena vs Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels
Taboo Tuesday – November 1, 2005

WWE Championship Match
Edge vs John Cena
Royal Rumble – January 29, 2006

John Cena vs Edge
Tribute to the Troops – December 25, 2006

World Tag Team Championship Match
John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs Rated RKO
Raw – February 26, 2007

Falls Count Anywhere Match for the WWE Championship
John Cena vs Great Khali
One Night Stand – June 3, 2007

Disc 3

WWE Championship Match
John Cena vs Bobby Lashley
Great American Bash – July 22, 2007

WWE Championship Match
John Cena vs Randy Orton
SummerSlam – August 26, 2007

John Cena Returns!
Royal Rumble – January 27, 2008

WWE Championship Match
John Cena vs Triple H
Night of Champions – June 29, 2008

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels
Raw – January 26, 2009

John Cena vs Jack Swagger
Raw – April 13, 2009

John Cena vs Big Show
Judgment Day – May 17, 2009

Night of Champions Tournament Semi-Finals Match
John Cena vs The Miz
Raw – June 29, 2009

Triple Threat Match for the WWE Championship
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H
Survivor Series – November 22, 2009

Love me some John Boy :cena.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because it benefits my interest going in for those matches (due to the WHC project), what are your thoughts on Batista/JBL GAB '05, Khali/Batista SSlam '07 and the Sheamus/ADR saga? Pretty sure I recall many of these being poor (except for Sheamus/ADR NOC).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck em' all.

Fuck em' all to hell.

unk4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Love me some John Boy :cena.


Damn, I'm baffled by some of these inclusions. vs Booker T (No Mercy)? vs Edge (TTTT)? And they include the HHH match where he loses but not the "big one" at WM22? Unless, the latter was included in his other DVD, then I'm confused by this decision.

He also has a "Word Life" DVD from the old rapper Cena time. Wonder if that one is any good.



ATF said:


> Because it benefits my interest going in for those matches (due to the WHC project), what are your thoughts on Batista/JBL GAB '05, Khali/Batista SSlam '07 and the Sheamus/ADR saga? Pretty sure I recall many of these being poor (except for Sheamus/ADR NOC).


Batista/JBL GAB 05 - FUCK THIS MATCH. Used to have it on 2 stars but now I'm going full ZERO with it because it doesn't deserve a single star. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING.

Khali/Batista I recall being boring too. Their No Mercy Punjabi Prison match is good, though.

And I skipped the Sheamus/Del Rio saga as it happened during my complete decline in interest of the shows.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I've yet to see that Cena DVD too. Might get around to it soon. Those matches listed are pretty hit and miss though. Some great stuff but also some really shoddy stuff. I'm sure we'll see the ultimate, definitive John Cena set soon enough though.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Hogan/Vince > Austin/Rock?

Lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Which shirt should I rock tonight?

Salute The Cenation, Rise Above Hate, or Hustle/Loyalty/Respect? Wore Word Life last night, all my friends think I'm a little too obsessed with loving Cena (and hating The Roid) for my own good, FUCK IT.

:cena3

Seriously though, the Sheamus-Dull Rio feud and matches are all fucking horrendous. It's like most work Del Rio does ; the work is solid but I have no reason to be invested or care in the slightest what so ever because Dull Rio is the most uninspiring worker I have ever seen in my entire life. The only time I actually gave a fuck about anything he did was his 2011 PPV series against Cena as well as the 2011 Punk PPV matches (including the TLC triple threat). The most over pushed hack in recent WWE history as far as I'm concerned, mother fucker has a MITB win, a Rumble win, two WWE Championship reigns, and a WHC reign. UGH. THAT ACTUALLY PISSES ME OFF ALOT.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Which shirt should I rock tonight?
> 
> Salute The Cenation, Rise Above Hate, or *Hustle/Loyalty/Respect*? Wore Word Life last night, all my friends think I'm a little too obsessed with loving Cena (and hating The Roid) for my own good, FUCK IT.
> 
> ...


Is that the AWA one?! If so, I'd choose it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Raw Top 100 Moments



Spoiler: Bottom 50



100. Undertaker and Triple H return on 2.21.11. Stare down for Wrestlemania 27.
99. Tea with Santino (comedy segment with Kozlov and Sheamus)
98. Evolution kicks out Randy Orton
97. Wrestlemania 14 challenge - Kane/Undertaker
96. Goldust mouth to mouth on Ahmed Johnson
95. Sheamus puts Mark Cuban through a table
94. Monday Night Football parody with Shelton Benjamin/Trish/Vince
93. DX impersonates Vince and Shane McMahon
92. Tuxedo match between Howard Finkel and Harvey Whippleman
91. Seth Green is first Celebrity host 
90. Snitsty punts Kane and Lita's baby
89. HBK superkicks Hogan
88. Vince trains for the 1999 Rumble
87. Loser leaves Raw Ladder Match - Matt Hardy vs. Edge
86. Vince is bald (night after WM 23)
85. Rock's eulogy for Stone Cold (before Backlash 1999)
84. Santino's debut on Raw in Milan (wins IC title from Umaga)
83. Vince's birthday with DX in 2009
82. Marty Jannetty vs Shawn Michaels (IC title)
81. Edge's retirement speech
80. Triple H takes over DX (night after WM 14)
79. Hugh Jackman punches Dolph Ziggler
78. Musical chairs (Eugene GM for a night in July 2004)
77. Big Show's first match - March 1999
76. HBK vs. Cena - One Hour in London (match post WM 23)
75. Loser leaves town - Perfect vs. Flair
74. Triple H and Shawn Michaels "reunite" DX in 2002 
73. CM Punk cashes in Money in the Bank on Edge - 2008
72. Stephanie McMahon announces her pregnancy - February 2002
71. Bret vs. Austin - Street Fight - April 1997
70. Floyd Mayweather confronts the Big Show - March 2008
69. Kofi Kingston's Boom Drop on Orton in MSG - November 2009
68. Hornswoggle is Vince's son
67. Y2J throws HBK through the Jeritron
66. Austin fills Vince's Corvette with cement
65. Donald Trump becomes new Chairman of Raw - June 2009
64. Shawn Michaels' retirement speech
63. The Rock makes fun of Toronto - February 2003
62. Bob Barker hosts Raw - September 2009
61. Greater Power revealed - June 1999
60. IC title thrown off a bridge - December 1997
59. New Age Outlaws push Cactus/Chainsaw off the stage in the dumpster
58. Miz cashes in Money in the Bank on Randy Orton - November 2010
57. US vs. Canada Flag Match - July 1997
56. Ric Flair retirement celebration - March 2008
55. Lita vs Trish - main events raw - December 2004
54. Chris Jericho "wins" WWF title - April 2000
53. Dude Love debuts - July 1997
52. Cena vs Kevin Federline - January 2007
51. Goldberg debuts



As you can see, a number of silly moments, with a number of great moments. Nos. 81, 80, 76, 71, 64, 61, 56, and 54 should all be higher. On to the top 50.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yes it is, I bought a whole bunch of Cena shirts since they were on sale on WWESHOP, gonna buy more eventually... Gotta support the FUTURE of the WWE, the real People's Champion.... JOHN MOTHERFUCKIN' CENA.

Watching Cena-Otunga from 09/04/12 for some reason, I'm getting all up on my Cena shit lately, the dude never wrestles bad matches.

*John Cena vs David Otunga (RAW 09/04/12):* Very basic TV match here, as earlier in the night BROCK and Cena brawled and Cena was pretty much destroyed after making the mistake of bitch slapping THE ANOMALY BORK LAZER. This is as VINTAGE CENA as you can get here, with Otunga controlling a majority of the match (taking breaks to flex and be a homosexual of course) until Cena takes over, hits the GOAT five moves of greatness, taunts Johnny Ace (who is at ringside), and gets the victory. This was as basic of a match as you're going to get, but that's not to say that it's a bad thing in the slightest as I think that's what TV matches should be anyways.

BROCK comes in after the match and fucks Cena up royally, garnering this one some BONUZ POINTZ. Not bad.

** 3/4*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^Cena/Otunga from September 9, 2012 and BROCK was back? That date can't be right. Maybe it's April?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FIXED. I swear I'm terrible with writing down dates.

I have let the CENATION down.

unk3


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Fuck, that was a great doc. I know that people call Punk a whiner and what-not, that's fine. To me, he comes off as someone who wants recognition for his contribution to wrestling and someone who wants to one-up his previous accomplishments, which is something everyone should yearn for. Though I don't personally know him, after watching his doc I feel like I'm closer to him especially as a fan. While it may not be better than actually extending my hand from behind the barricade and patting him on the shoulder, it's a fine substitute. 10/10


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Well said. Top documentary that's for sure. Getting the rights to the ROH footage was a massive plus IMO.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> ^ Well said. Top documentary that's for sure. Getting the rights to the ROH footage was a massive plus IMO.



Hell, just seeing his indy days was a big plus.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I need to watch that Punk/Hero TLC from IWA:MS. Looks awesome.

Just watched through some of my favorite Triple H matches.

Edge/Cena/Trips - Backlash '06 - ****1/4 (2nd best 3-way after WM XX, imo)
Triple H/Cena - NOC '08 - ****1/4
Triple H/HBK vs Hart Dynasty - SD Dec '09 - ***
Triple H/HBK vs Legacy - SS '09 - ****

Great stuff. (Y)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I need to watch that Punk/Hero TLC from IWA:MS. Looks awesome.
> 
> Just watched through some of my favorite Triple H matches.
> 
> ...


I definitely need to watch that backlash triple threat again. Also, that NOC match with Cena = (Y)

I'll be throwing up the next part of my Triple H/Benoit project tomorrow. Jericho in both matches too. Should be a pretty awesome watch. Trips in 2000. :mark:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Kind of sad I don't have any wrestling dvds. Netflix is helping a bit. Watching HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph doc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with watching Lashley vs Booker in a steel cage. An okay match but the highlight was JBL's commentary. Hearing him talk about Ghana beating USA in the World Cups took me _sooooooo_ back in time. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Kind of sad I don't have any wrestling dvds. Netflix is helping a bit. Watching HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph doc.


Great, great doc, imo. 



Choke2Death said:


> Just got done with watching Lashley vs Booker in a steel cage. An okay match but the highlight was JBL's commentary. Hearing him talk about Ghana beating USA in the World Cups took me _sooooooo_ back in time. :lol


Shit, I remember that WC. I recall that match being decent enough. Better than the JD one. I feel like Smackdown really utilized the cage well from '02 to around '09. Lots of solid ones.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I definitely need to watch that backlash triple threat again. Also, that NOC match with Cena = (Y)
> 
> I'll be throwing up the next part of my Triple H/Benoit project tomorrow. Jericho in both matches too. Should be a pretty awesome watch. Trips in 2000. :mark:


Can't wait to read. (Y)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Kind of sad I don't have any wrestling dvds. Netflix is helping a bit. Watching HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph doc.


Netflix does have some pretty good DVDs streamed, and there used to be some things on Youtube, but got taken down. 

Heartbreak and Triumph is great, but if you get a chance, get a hold of My Journey. Has great matches on it, including a lot of matches not talked about much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> *HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004:* ***3/4. In a hidden gem that is essentially a must watch for quick and fun match fans, the three guys who were in (supposed, but maybe legit, for this particular instance who knows) vote to face Trips for the World Title, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit and Edge, all wrestled in a really good Triple Threat on Raw before Taboo Tuesday... unfortunely for the Creative team, that was totally sure HBK was going to be the voted guy, good ol' Shawn had a legit leg injury. Well, what can I say other than said injury aided the quality of it. Hunter was a true dick by going the entire match after Shawn's leg, and it's what HayleySabin and others have been saying here - me not knowing if it was selling or just perhaps, legit pain, I was rooting for my 2nd favourite of all time (2nd to STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD) much, much harder than usual. And so was the crowd in attendance for the PPV. A psychology classic, that's for sure. It lived up to its hype as far as I'm concerned, and may just be one of the more underrated matches in both men's careers.


(Y)

Great match. Cool to see you dug it to the same extend I did.

Cena vs Swagger I made his John Cena Experience set? :mark:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Finished Heartbreak & Triumph. Same feeling with the Punk doc, but got really dark with the drug talk.

Hunter said something in Punk's doc and it was going through my head while watching HBK's: _"The championship doesn't make the man, the man makes the championship"_ and I wholeheartedly agree. HBK made the European title important mind you after being WWF(E) champion. That's a champion's champion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Drug talk was way too vague for Shawn's set. I wanted the gritty details. Good doc, but eh, felt he held back. With his past it could have talked about SO much more.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 23*
- Finally finished rewatching this after having considered it for so long. Not quite as "average" as I remember it being but rather pretty good, great even. Starts off slowly with some mat wrestling and both men getting their upper-hand for a minute until HBK takes control after a few minutes and keeps it for several minutes, ending it with some constant work on Cena's left leg which he sells pretty well at first. One problem comes right after, though, as Cena suddenly forgets about the leg work and gets a burst of energy as he goes into 5 moves of doom mode and hits everything as if he's fresh as a daisy. But once the 5 Knuckle Shuffle connects, things go back to "normal" with Cena selling again while HBK takes control and even hits a Piledriver on the steel steps outside the ring. After that, a second referee comes out to replace the knocked out one and the excellent finishing stretch follows with both men hitting their finishing moves which they kick out of and then some great counters and nearfalls that comes to an end when Cena counters a FU reversal into a Drop Toe Hold and then the STFU which makes HBK tap out. A lot more fun for this time around and the time went pretty fast for a 28 minutes long match. I must say that the part in the end when both were being counted out made me laugh because Shawn had his hand on Cena's dick for like 1 full minute and it looked hella ridiculous. ★★★★

Cena's best Wrestlemania match? I really don't know. He still doesn't have that true CLASSIC on another level IMO but a few great matches including this, vs HHH at WM22, the triple threat at WM24 and the match with the ROCK from last year which I rate a lot higher than most of this thread. Best one is probably a tie between this and WM22.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*@Sabin*
Well, the story his wife told where he was in a drug induced sleep while his child was crawling all over him was pretty dark imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it was. But eh. Couldn't help thinking it was a touch too vague for my liking. No one even mentioned the word "cocaine" for example. We've all seen him in '97. Guy was living off the stuff back then. Tully Blanchard talks about doing coke on the Horsemen doc. I've been spoiled by the old school spirit of not holding anything back.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That was my problem with Shawn's Doc & also Bret vs Shawn. 

Bret really got down and dirty with his details, even going so far as calling out Shawn for his pre match "stripteases" with younger boys from the audience and Shawn just completely avoids all confrontations and gets really vague into everything. Apparently he also does it in his book, and if I can say anything awesome about Bret is that he gives you his 100 percent REAL opinion all the time no matter what, love that fucker.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Well they made up the lack of gritty drug talk with HBK in biker shorts flaunting a bulge in front of JR and other various things like that.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Summerslam 2001 - WWF Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle*

This quite possible is the best Austin carry job if all time, hell it's up there with Bret's carry job in the '92 Summerslam against Davey Boy Smith. Seriously though. The beginning of this match was one of the coolest things I've seen in wrestling. Austin and Angle were just staring at each other from opposite sides of the aisle, and while Austin’s music was still playing, they stalked toward each other and just started fighting. This match had so much tension that at times the Invasion seemed like a secondary story to pure hatred and wanting of the gold. The match was also filled with so much drama. The big story of the match blood loss and how Angle got busted open when Austin threw him into the ring post like 5 times and the blade job by Angle was AWESOME. Kurt's comebacks and never quit attitude was great, and Austin losing his shit, turning even more paranoid and going insane after Angle kicked out of THREE Stunners OWNED. He took out three different refs, and when Kurt has the pin, THE MVP of the alliance Nick Patrick runs down and called the DQ so Austin would escape with the title. BRILLIANT! This is the 2nd best Summerslam match in history. ****3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's clearly uncomfortable talking about his sketchy past with his new way of life. Oh well, I guess.

As for Cena's best match from WrestleMania - vs Shawn Michaels WrestleMania 23.

Huge margin for me when it comes to that match and the rest of his other Mania matches. Although I seem to be the only guy who likes his Triple Threat vs Big Show & Edge from 25.

EDIT ~ ***** for Austin vs Angle, imo. The best Summerslam match for this fan. :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Punk doc is incredible. Def on the short list for the better ones. The Bret Hart one was great. The most recent Austin one was amazing. I loved both Flair ones. The HBK ones are good. I love the Pillman one. The Eddie Guerrero ones are excellent. I'm such a mark for docs. It's a shame we didn't get a Savage one before he died. A Sting one when he is not in TNA anymore will be great as will an Angle one. I'mso pumped for the Foley one and the HHH one. 

I'm assuming the HHH one will be a 4 disc set like the Austin set that came out. Here is my hope/guess for the match listings....

Jean-Paul Levesque V Alex Wright Starcade 1994
HHH V Goldust Royal Rumble 1997
HHH V Austin Mayhem in Manchester April 1998
HHH V Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000 (Commentary with HHH and Foley)
HHH V Chris Jericho Last Man Standing Fully Loaded 2000
HHH V Kurt Angle Royal Rumble 2001
HHH V Undertaker King of the Ring 2002
HHH V Goldberg V Kane Armageddon 2003
HHH V HBK Last Man Standing Royal Rumble 2004 
HHH V Randy Orton Unforgiven 2004
HHH V John Cena WM 22
HHH V CM Punk Night of Champions 2011
HHH V Brock Lesnar WM 29

Blu Ray Exclusives
HHH V Mankind In Your House Canadian Stampede
HHH V Owen Hart Unforgiven 1998
HHH V Cena V HBK Survivor Series 2009


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Even in the Bret/Shawn Rivalry DVD, Shawn plays dumb alot of the time, as if he "forgot" about most of the things Bret said about him. He doesn't deny it, he just says, "You're probably right". 

HBK on coke = GOAT cocky heel

And, Christian: Can't stop watching that bump in your sig. :lmao


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watching the Macho doc and I'm finding Matt Striker and Maria extremely irritating four minutes into it. Aw hell.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If KOTR vs Undertaker makes the set I'll chuckle. Only b/c while it is forgotten...it's forgotten for a reason. Haha.

more matches vs Owen Hart to make this set please. And everything vs Foley that hasn't been released.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Would MARK if Rock/HHH iron man match and if Flair/HHH taboo Tuesday made the set.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> If KOTR vs Undertaker makes the set I'll chuckle. Only b/c while it is forgotten...it's forgotten for a reason. Haha.
> 
> more matches vs Owen Hart to make this set please. And everything vs Foley that hasn't been released.



Agreed the HHH/Taker match at KotR in 2002 isnt that great I was just looking to A...add Taker and B....add something not on many sets. I think it's only on the blu ray King of the Ring set if memory serves. I didnt want to add any of their WM matches because they are already on enough sets. Maybe the HHH/Austin V Taker/Kane match at Backlash 2001 instead? I dont think thats on any sets. 

I dont think that HHH/Foley match from Can Stampede is on any sets.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

That Canadian Stampede will probably be in the IYH comp.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Watching the Macho doc and I'm finding Matt Striker and Maria extremely irritating four minutes into it. Aw hell.


Maria is sexy as hell though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Would MARK if Rock/HHH iron man match and if Flair/HHH taboo Tuesday made the set.


Own the cage match via Flair's set & the show already, but the Ironman on DVD would be fabulous. Worth owning level type fabulous.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Agreed the HHH/Taker match at KotR in 2002 isnt that great I was just looking to A...add Taker and B....add something not on many sets. I think it's only on the blu ray King of the Ring set if memory serves. I didnt want to add any of their WM matches because they are already on enough sets. Maybe the HHH/Austin V Taker/Kane match at Backlash 2001 instead? I dont think thats on any sets.
> 
> I dont think that HHH/Foley match from Can Stampede is on any sets.


nah it isn't. Don't think their Summerslam cage match is. Unless it was one of the non-clipped matches from the Bloodbath: Greatest Steel Cage Matches which was released years ago.

Backlash match would be a great addition to have. Or possibly their Insurrextion 2002 match as idk if anyone knows that went down.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Maria is sexy as hell though.



That somewhat makes up for the hell I'll be trudging through.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

just hit skip and head to the matches. Matt Striker isn't worth anyone's time. The putz.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I totally forgot the Cage match is on that Flair set, I should watch that DVD again.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I think a straight up Iron Man set would be awesome. I read Bret and Owen had some Iron Man matches at house shows in 94 so one of those. Bret and HBK obviously. Henning and Nick B from AWA. Rock and HHH from 2000. Flair and Rhodes. Flair and Windham. Cena and Orton from 08 (I think?). Angle and Brock. Maybe have one later this year (like Punk and Bryan...please!) as well. Fun idea I think. 

I checked and the HHH/Mankind match from Can Stampede is NOT on the In Your House set coming out soon. I boo that. I hope this makes the HHH set.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Iron Man set of a set containing a number of broadways? b/c I get what you mean but Flair vs Windham type deals went the distance rather than being under an Iron Man format. Most Iron Man matches have been released on DVD as it is iirc. Believe the only ones that haven't are HHH's vs Rock & Benoit. Latter won't for reasons we all known. Former needs to be. Which is why I'm going to rely on this new Trips set to pull the trigger and do it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

well HIGH KENNY watched fall brawl 99 last night


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was Benoit vs SID decent or did SID kind of suck? Their Souled Out match was pretty good and Fall Brawl is kind of a distant memory to me as far as remembering "quality" goes. Liked the opener. It's about the only match I remember. Goldberg vs Page too.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i dont remember much :lol i probably fell asleep..had way too many


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lolz.

Well, I know from experience getting drunk _(high once)_ while watching WCW is usually a blast just for what is given. Getting high isn't exactly my cup of tea, but I'll forever plug to watch the Lucha eight man from Souled Out '98 high at least once. You won't stop laughing. I mean get REALLY baked and do it.

This is where I've come to when I'm posting in this thread now. :hmm:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I got really baked last night. I should post in more sections while high. DEM MUNCHIEZ


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Need to get drunk more, imo. I do fancy the liquid brain-killers over any other fashion of self-destruction though.

Tempted to pop in either King of the Ring 2000 or Summerslam 2001 just for Austin vs Angle right now. Only as a placeholder till my bro comes by so we can watch the current NJPW show. On a bit of a older WWF fix right now. Oh, and lots of KANE matches as I slam through is DVD set. You know what match you must see Kenny? Kane vs Finlay - Belfast Brawl 9/14/07. Amazing, excellent, match. It's damn near bliss.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'll put that on my to watch list. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

Think it's my favorite TV match of 2007 at this rate. Yes, over Cena vs Michaels in England.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:shocked:

over JOHN BOY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm a Cena guy. But, I'm an even stronger advocate of being a Finlay guy. 

FINLAY (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

FIT FINLAY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)




----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Does anyone else hate when current superstars (usually random ones) docommentary on old matches/segments/moments? 

They've done it forever but seeing Alberto Del Rio comment on DX invading the Norfolk Scope or Kofi or Miz talking about random things just bug me.

Now, seeing Heyman talk about the Invasion, or guys that were backstage or involved in said matches or segments give it that personal touch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's all filler bs. Not going to pay someone who was around in the Attitude Era to babble on about a specific angle so they just have the current roster talk about where they were during that time. It's why I never bother with their mediocre DVD sets. I like Curt Hawkins; can't say I care to hear him talk about where he was when Undertaker tombstoned Helmsley during that one edition of Shotgun Saturday Night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*John Cena vs Michael Cole (NO DQ RAW 4/6/12):* Everybody and their mother fucking DESPISES this match (that I know of anyways) , but you wanna know something? It's not a match, it's just a fun little segment that involves Michael Cole begging for his life and eventually being drenched in BBQ sauce, who doesn't fucking love to see that ? Tensai comes out and tries to wreak havoc but Cena WON'T BE DENIED AGAINST COLE and delivers the Attitude Adjustment (complete with being covered in BBQ sauce of course) for the 1-2-3. 

Like I said before, this match is just 9 minutes of pure fun. If you're a fan of the Johnny Ace-Johnny CENA match you'll like this one (I'm a fan of both). OBVIOUSLY Cena-Cole isn't going to be high up on the STARZ!* scale but I could watch this multiple times and not be bored with it. It's CENA DA TROLL at his best.

*1/2 **


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> *John Cena vs Michael Cole (NO DQ RAW 4/6/12):* Everybody and their mother fucking DESPISES this match (that I know of anyways) , but you wanna know something? It's not a match, it's just a fun little segment that involves Michael Cole begging for his life and eventually being drenched in BBQ sauce, who doesn't fucking love to see that ?


anybody over the age of 11?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's WRESTLING, have some fun with it :lol.

If a man being destroyed while being covered in BBQ sauce isn't awesome than I don't wanna know what is.

:cena3

John Cena vs David Otunga/John Laurinitis (RAW 6/18/12) : *3/4 **
John Cena vs Chris Jericho (RAW 6/25/12) : ****

The handicap match is a nothing match while Cena-Jericho was far too hort to be anything better than decent, still a nice little match though. THE JAWN SHEENA BINGE CONTINUES, loving this shit so much, gonna watch another few Cena TV matches in a little while.

EDIT: Just watched *CENA DA GAWD against MARK "RATINGS" Henry* from RAW 19/03/12 and I was a fan. Classic heel control segment leading to an awesome Cena babyface comeback. Simple, simple wrestling here with a legitimately awesome finishing sequence involving a World's Strongest Slam reversal, an AA tease, and eventually an AA. Nice little TV match to help us build towards Rock/Cena I @ Wrestlemania XXVIII. Would love to see these guys work a PPV feud together as they could make things dumbfounding-ly simple but effective at the same time and show the world that "OMG MOVEZ" aren't needed to tell a great story.

*** 1/2*

& as a bonus *John Cena vs Tensai (RAW 4/6/12) :* This happens right before the Cole match/segment as Cena needs to go through a man he has never beaten yet ; Tensai. This is exactly what you'd expect it to be with Tensai beating down Cena and Cena making it look good until Cena hits all of his big moves and gets the win. Not even close to their good "Extreme Rules" encounter over in the U.K. but it's a Cena TV match and you get exactly what you expect. Tensai's control segment was too bland and needed a little bit more flavor in order to take this match to the next level. Basic, basic contest that was close to being a good match but never really got there. 

I can say this for a fact though ; Cena vs MONSTER heels almost ALWAYS work in any capacity and this RAW co-main event is certainly no exception.

** 3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Cole "match" was honest to science hard to finish. It goes nearly 10 minutes. If not over it I think. Too lazy to bust out the notebook and find out but ugh. It's the worst bit of tripe ever. No matter if Cole gets owned or not. Isn't worth it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm all for fun and silliness in wrestling but I couldn't stand that Cena/Cole match/segment.

I'm so glad they moved Cole back to being face because he was insufferable as a heel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly. Cole is simply just a guy who blabs behind a desk again. Thank everyone with a brain who made this decision. Those two years of heel Cole were brutal. Legit cringed whenever I turned on Smackdown during those weeks and knew he'd pop up on there with his lousy biased commentary trying to instigate with Booker T. God damn that was the prime example of a little going a LONG way. Terrible decision on WWE's part. Outside of slamming R-Truth it wasn't tolerable. Not in the slightest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 13 review in my blog . Currently the 3rd best WM ever for me! Only half way through WM 20 though, so I'm expecting that to chance with the likes of 21, 24 and 26 coming up.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Benoit/Finlay (Judgment Day 2006)

You fucking know it. The manliest match in WWE.

****1/2


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Still irritates me how Ace/Cena main evented over Punk/Bryan. That match was a classic and didn't deserve to play second fiddle to some goober comedy match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 24th April 2000 - Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho*

This match was originally billed as a handicap match, since Triple H was unable to find a tag partner. He comes out with Steph, but announces that he has found a partner, and it's Benoit. Then Shane is announced as the special referee, and to put the icing on the cake, Vince comes out to be at ringside too. Both Trips and Benoit are champions at the moment too, and will be facing Rock and Jericho respectively at Backlash.

This match is frantic throughout. It's not particularly long but that allows the pace to be really quick. Benoit and Jericho begin the match and exchange hard hitting chops to the chest. The Rock comes in and plants some fists on Benoit, before goading HHH to get into the ring. Benoit attacks from behind and that allows 'The Rabid Game' (as I'm calling them) to take control of the match. Rock is able to make the tag but Jericho gets grounded as well. This one just one week after Jericho 'won' the title against Triple H, and he tries to take him out on the apron a couple of times but Benoit take advantage of Y2J's back being turned. Good control periods by both men, and the crowd is giving them good heat throughout.

Jericho explodes out of the corner with a flying forearm to The Game, and makes the tag to The Rock who cleans house, and hits the Rock Bottom on Triple H. Shane conveniently has his back turned and is unable to count the pin. Rock then takes out Shane and then goes after Vince, before setting up Benoit for The People's Elbow. Vince kicks Rock below the belt however, and HHH hits the Pedigree for the win.

A fun match that set up the two title matches well for Backlash. Better than I remembered, with Benoit and Jericho looking just as good as HHH and The Rock. Remember when midcard guys were just as over as main eventers?

****1/4*

*Smackdown 19th July 2000 - Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho*

Just a couple of months later, and we have 'The Rabid Game' teaming up again to face Y2J and The Rock, this time just a few days before Fully Loaded and the PPV matchups are reversed.

This match starts as a brawl on the outside and there's a pretty funny moment when HHH throws Jericho right into Michael Cole at the announcers table. Jericho's ribs are taped up from a sledgehammer shot by The Game either on Raw or earlier on Smackdown, I can't recall which. In the ring, Rock beats on Benoit before tagging in Jericho. Y2J is on top briefly before Benoit and The Game take control. Ever the psychologists, both men aim all their offense at Y2J's injured ribs, with knees, kicks, fists and Benoit hangs up Jericho on the ropes with a nice suplex too. Jericho is basically grounded for this whole match and can't make a tag, before Rock gets fed up and barges the ring taking out HHH, then Benoit, and then even the ref which leads to a disqualification. Y2J and The Rock get the last laugh however, when Jericho locks in The Walls on The Game and Rock traps Benoit in the crossface and neither let go until a whole load of referees come down to stop them. An excellent ending to the go home show before Fully Loaded.

This match wasn't anywhere near as high paced as the first one, but some awesome rib work by Triple H and Benoit when they isolated Jericho. Just excellent heel work by them, but the fans got the nice payoff at the end with the faces locking in the submissions.

*****

*So Far:
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finlay vs Benoit :mark: :mark: :mark:

Love the rugged tie-up with neither man conceding in the early going. Knew it was going to be gnarly from that very moment. I want more Finlay goodness again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Benoit was more rugged and manly 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SUPLEXEZ


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MOVEZ!*
SPOTZ!*
FUCKERY!*

:kurt

If there was ever a Kurt Angle WWE release, that's what it would need to be called : "MOVEZ, SPOTZ, AND FUCKERY : THE KURT ANGLE STORY"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kurt isn't a bad wrestler though, its just his body is hacked 99% of the time he's in the ring 8*D.

Speaking of Kurt, up to his match with Eddie at WM XX. Don't see me liking it still. Boring the fuck out of me so far.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like that match. Eddie makes me care. Kind of like how Undertaker vs Kane following it is kind of meh, but Taker peaks my interest.

btw go watch Kane vs FINLAY Belfast Brawl next chance you get free time. why? b/c it's excellent. do it Cal. :hayley1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> I like that match. Eddie makes me care. Kind of like how Undertaker vs Kane following it is kind of meh, but Taker peaks my interest.
> 
> btw go watch Kane vs FINLAY Belfast Brawl next chance you get free time. why? b/c it's excellent. do it Cal. :hayley1


LINK ME and I will.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Pleeeaaaseeee...... WRESTLEMANIA...... Get on the shit I'm watching BRO ;

John Cena vs Health Slater (Saturday Morning Slam 12/29/12) : *3/4 **

FUN. FUN. FUN. Cena even busts out a monkey flip at the beginning of the match, and proceeds to beat down Slater for a few minutes until Slater gets the 3MB to assist in him getting in two offensive moves before falling victim to DA FIVE MOVEZ!* of doom for the win. Not good enough to reach the one star mark, but damn it I had a ton of fucking fun with this.

Watching the pair of Cena-DOLPH RAW matches that kicked off 2013. Cena is trolling HARDCORE in the pre match promo with his nonsensical jokes again, I can't help but smile whenever he says something completely ridiculous that is no doubt pissing millions of people off whenever he says it.

DOLPH : "Cena, every time you lose you just smile and hope that that person goes away... WELL I'M NOT GOING AWAY"
Cena : :cena3

...and I mark the fuck out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't you buy Kane's set though? Or any I getting the facts mixed up here after one of our discussions?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zdoc_finlay-vs-kane-in-a-belfast-brawl-p_sport#.UU3MVhyR98E
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zdrg_finlay-vs-kane-in-a-belfast-brawl-p_sport#.UU3MpRyR98E

Quality is shit. So, that's unfortunate. Watching it in DVD quality is mad brilliant.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Didn't you buy Kane's set though? Or any I getting the facts mixed up here after one of our discussions?
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zdoc_finlay-vs-kane-in-a-belfast-brawl-p_sport#.UU3MVhyR98E
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2zdrg_finlay-vs-kane-in-a-belfast-brawl-p_sport#.UU3MpRyR98E
> ...


I ain't not realise it was on the Kane set . I did indeed buy it (your fault, ya cunt, making me spend money).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

About to return to my WHC project. Can you hand thoughts on it so far, as well as these next matches:

HHH/Maven 04
HHH/Benoit/Edge
EC NYR 05
HHH/Edge Japan
HHH/Orton RR
HHH/Batista I


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HHH/Maven 04 - ***
HHH/Benoit/Edge - ***3/4
EC NYR 05 - ****1/2
HHH/Edge Japan - ***1/2
HHH/Orton RR - ****
HHH/Batista I - ***1/4


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Great reviews as usual AlienBountyHunter. (Y) 

Those two tag matches were very fun to watch. Then again, main event TV tag team matches in the WWF back in 2000 were always fun to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> I ain't not realise it was on the Kane set . I did indeed buy it (your fault, ya cunt, making me spend money).


:hb

Knew that was one I gave subliminal praise to.



ATF said:


> About to return to my WHC project. Can you hand thoughts on it so far, as well as these next matches:
> 
> HHH/Maven 04
> HHH/Benoit/Edge
> ...


Good read. Making me want to pursue a similar type project, tbhayley. Buckets of fun, I'm sure, to see the progression of the World Championship since the WWE inception and which matches are the honest to goodness standouts. Keep it up. (Y)

idk the HHH/Maven match.
Triple Threat was pretty legit iirc
The best damn elimination chamber match ever
again, can't remember. Probably solid.
HHH vs Orton is kind of bad.
HHH vs Batista is ultimate lackluster city. Things won't get great till you reach Vengeance. Unless there is a forgotten championship match following WM & Backlash.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler (RAW 7/1/13)


SUPER CENA. If you have ever wondered why people call John Cena "SUPER CENA", then look no further then this match right here. I mean GOD DAMN, this is pretty much the ultimate "odds stacked against Cena and Cena somehow pulling out with a win" match. You would think that these two would go out of their way to call a typical awesome match with Dolph working a control segment with sleepers and cocky shit until Cena makes his babyface comeback but that lasts for a good 20 seconds in the middle of the match, and these two opt to go "OMG MOVEZ OMG FINISHERZ" for the last 10 minutes or so.

OH, and when I said "OMG FINISHERS", I meant Dolph hits 2 finishers, Big E hits his finisher, and despite Dolph using Big E and AJ on two separate occasions to gain control of Cena, Cena only needs to muster up literally ONE FUCKING FINISHER TO GET THE WIN. Ugh, this match disappoints me because of the talent in there, why did they decide to take this direction fr a match astounds me beyond belief. The near falls and shit get exciting towards the end but they do nothing but show me something I already know ; JOHN BOY IS FUCKING INVINCIBLE.

Poor structure. Not HORRENDOUS by any means and actually not bad at times, but overall this match is kind of a mess. Not a good start for 2013 : DA YEARZ OF DA REDEMPTIONZ

** 1/2*​


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> About to return to my WHC project. Can you hand thoughts on it so far, as well as these next matches:
> 
> HHH/Maven 04
> HHH/Benoit/Edge
> ...


Can't recall the Maven match at all. Will be getting to the HHH/Benoit/Edge triple threat later on in my project so I'll give a rating of that then, same for the Chamber match.

The HHH/Edge match from Japan is ok. The crowd sucks but it's solid enough. The final two HHH matches are solid enough too, but nothing special. Though I haven't seen that Orton match in a while.



1999 Rejex said:


> Great reviews as usual AlienBountyHunter. (Y)
> 
> Those two tag matches were very fun to watch. Then again, main event TV tag team matches in the WWF back in 2000 were always fun to watch.


Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Yeah, any main event matches on TV during 2000 were awesome because the crowds were always right up for it and there was so many more stars to put in those matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Couple things that've been discussed.

- Both the 'Experience' docs suck, imo. The John Cena one is a chore to sit through (I guess unless you're a huge fan) and the Orton one is pretty shitty. They hardly cover any of his wrestling career and there was like one interesting story on the whole thing.

- Why is *KOK* reviewing all these shitty Cena TV matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I refuse to believe the Japanese crowd "sucked" during Triple H vs Edge. :hmm:


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler (RAW 7/1/13)


Oh, is this the cage match?

<<< pretty much sums up my thoughts for that match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Getting on my Cena grind BRO. 

We're on the road to CENAmania, so it's only fitting that I check out as much Cena as I can so that I can welcome out supreme wrestling overlord with open arms. You've got to believe into the three principles of Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect, and in order to be brainwash...... I mean to believe these principles, I must watch as much Cena as possible. Currently watching Cena-DOLPH in the cage and next up is Cena-Sandow from Main Event (Cena's only match on Main Event), I don't remember what I gave these matches so it's always fun.

I'm doing a Cena PPV match project POST-MANIA to celebrate our conquering hero's triumphant Championship win against The Roid, ending the Roid's 70 day reign of terror across the WWE with shitty promos and the occasional shitty match.

We're about to enter a new era in the WWE. A JAWN SHEENA ERA.

:cena3


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Nah its a buried alive match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But you seem to only be watching his bad matches from 2012 & 2013. :side:

:cena3 has MUCH more to offer than all that tripe.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wonder what is KOK thinking about Cena/Ace... or that "legendary" promo for the Royal Rumble on Raw :cena2

Now going to watch the Elimination Chamber. '02 holds up as my GOAT one, but let's see if this one beats it out with a rematch. If Benoit and Jericho really start out this shit me marks out :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

02 Chamber gets a little worse every watch for me. Gets reeeeeally dull when its HHH and Jericho left alone with HBK imo. Drags it down a little. Plus those damn brown HBK tights are just awful. And the hair style. Half a star gone there .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sticking to the RECENTZ and working my way back really, there were a few matches over the last year that I missed, the DOLPH CAGE being one of them. Think I'm only going to stick to singles matches to TBH, even though John's an epic FIP and is the subject to a ton of awesome heel control segments, but I wanna keep things simple and watching as many random JOHN BOY matches as possible does that for me.

I never watched much WWE from late 2008 - late 2010 so I'm going to see what those two years have to offer in terms of CENA TV matches. I've already seen the "BIG ONES" that have been on sets such as HHH, HBK, Big Tag matches, etc.

CENA/ACE? SOOOOO MUCH FUN, holy shit. Shouldn't have main evented fuck all, but it's Cena and he must main event every show that doesn't have The Roid on it apparently so there you go. Take away the fact that it main evented and it's a solid ** 3/4*. For Cena/ACE, that's awesome. The ending for me is what takes off like half a star, FUCK THAT SHIT.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, you probably will dislike it if you dislike the HHH/HBK moments, because that's the best damn thing about that match. Every single corner of the Chamber was filled with drama, intensity and gore from A to Z on that night, and it was so Goddamn fun to watch it. Which means my (rewatch) expectations are GIANT for this one if it really is the GOAT Chamber as some people affirm. So far, BENOIT/JERICHO:mark: is making it worth, let's see if it holds up.

EDIT~: I agree with KOK on the fact that Cena/Ace probably would've been left better if it had been "wasted" *cough* on the midcard. Punk/Bryan had all the rights and SHOULD've been the closer. The match is still pretty shitty though. Fun? Yeah, but bad-cartoonish, dull and kiddie fun. Although the 5, 5 TIME by Ace was hilarious.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal's right. Always hate the part when it was Jericho & Game dominating HBK till Shawn finally comes back. Boring exchange in what is otherwise a darn good match. End result is easily one of my favorite WWE moments, so that match will always have a place in my heart.

Not even a Shawn Michaels mark outside of The Rockers either, yet I can't get enough of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shawn winning the title was an awesome moment. SS 02 had a few big moments take place on the show. Dudley's getting back together, STEINER returning to the WWE for the first time in 9 years, Lesnar having his first pin fall loss when Show won the WWE title for the first time since 99, and then HBK winning the WHC for the first time ever.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm still torn between what I consider the GOAT chamber match. SS 02 or NYR 05. I will be getting around to re-watching the '05 one in my project, but I'll have to check the first one out again to finally put my mini debate to rest.



Big Z said:


> Shawn winning the title was an awesome moment. SS 02 had a few big moments take place on the show. Dudley's getting back together, STEINER returning to the WWE for the first time in 9 years, Lesnar having his first pin fall loss when Show won the WWE title for the first time since 99, and then HBK winning the WHC for the first time ever.


Yeah, that whole PPV was awesome. Every title changed hands too. Great event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, damn great show. But it was "bad" timing for it because SummerSlam that year overshadowed it. Then again, it's always good you have two essentially perfect PPV's on the same year, especially SSlam and SS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH/Benoit/Edge - ***1/2
EC NYR 05 - ****1/4
HHH/Edge Japan - ***
HHH/Orton RR - ***
HHH/Batista I - **

Maven/HHH I already said I needed to re-watch. The triple threat is great. The EC at NYR 05 was awesome and definitely the second best EC match ever. The thing that brings it down quite a bit is when it's just Orton/Batista/HHH, and then the ending itself. But awesome match. Edge vs. HHH was a good match, and interesting to me due to the fact it was heel vs. heel. Once again, back then was pulling for Edge to win the title, though unlike in the triple threat, I knew it wasn't happening since Batista/HHH by that point was pretty much slated for Wrestlemania 21. Nevertheless, it's a good match but never really picks up. Orton/HHH RR 2005 is probably their second or third best match in the series, and while a good match, still lacks a lot for me to bring it any higher than ***. And Batista/HHH is a mediocre Mania main event... that was somehow still the better of the two title matches. It was more disappointing though due to how awesome the feud was, kinda like WM25 between Orton/HHH, though at least in Batista/HHH the right man won.

And here's what I have the following WHC matches at:

Batista/HHH BL- **1/2
Edge/Batista Raw- **3/4
Batista/HHH Vengeance- ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series 2002 is without a doubt one of my top 3 most watched wrestling PPVs. Thinking number two only behind to WrestleMania 17. Helps when you've owned them the longest via being the first shows I ever had on DVD or VHS.

Survivor Series 2003 makes the cut too. First ever show owned on DVD. Funny how the urge to own hit me one day while I was 13. From then on out the collection grew to decent levels. :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*Edge vs Matt Hardy - Steel Cage match - Unforgiven 2005*:

I LOVE This match. Probably my sixth time watching it. The match starts with a brief staredown and within seconds their brawling it out and throwing hard right hands at each other, their hatred for one another is at boiling point with this being after both their Summerslam encounter where Edge destroyed Matt, and after their street fight in which they destroyed each other, so at this point Matt hasn't got a win over Edge yet. Edge within the first five minutes tries to make three attempts, two trying to climb out of the cage and one trying to escape threw the door, but Matt stops him. 

Edge takes control of the match after hitting Matt with a missile dropkick after Matt tries to stop one of Edge escape attempts, and like their previous matches, Edge works on the head of Matt, with strikes to the head and moves like backdrops with impact being placed on the head. Every time Matt gets up, Edge knocks him back down and hits harder every time, Matt's selling is top notch during these assaults and the crowd sympathize by getting firmly behind Hardy. Edge's control of this match lasts quite a while and it makes you think if Matt can ever make a comeback. Edge places Matt on the turnbuckle in a reverse manner to attempt probably a back suplex, but Matt tries to reverse by getting elbows in, this being Matt's first offense in the match in about 8 minutes, but Edge counters and sets up Hardy and delivers a great powerbomb off the top rope for a near fall. Edge goes for 10 punch in the corner, but Matt drops Edge on the top rope with a snake eyes like maneuver, and that temporarily stuns Edge, and Edge tries to remain in control by going for a spear, but Matt sidesteps and Edge goes into a turnbuckle, and then Matt delivers a side effect and at this point Matt is firmly in control. 

Lita realizing that Edge is in trouble, throws the MITB briefcase in the ring for Edge to use, but Edge misses and Matt hammers Edge with like 20 punches tying Edge up in the ropes in the process and the crowd goes crazy, then Matt tosses Edge into the steel cage and delivers a bulldog onto the MITB briefcase, and then follows it up by ramming Edge into the steel cage several times, opening Edge up. Matt now realizing the blood on Edge's forehead, brutally kicks him many times in the head opening that cut up worse. Matt messes up when he tries to use the MITB briefcase as a weapon by attempting to jump off the ropes with it, but Edge shoves the ref into Matt and Matt falls off the top rope and Edge spears Matt when Matt is stuck between the ropes and the cage. At this point, Edge tries to escape thinking he has Matt beat, but Matt follows and performs a crazy side effect off the top rope that Edge sells to perfection, and after that Lita is really concerned and she goes into the cage with a steel chair, but the ref stops him, but as Matt goes for the cover, Lita jumps in the cage and breaks up the pin anyway, and after Lita distracts Matt for a second, Edge tries to crawl out of the cage, but Matt pulls Edge back, Lita then tries to hit Matt with the MITB briefcase, but Matt blocks and delivers a Twist of Fate to Lita, but then Edge spears Matt. Edge like many times in the match tries to make an escape attempt, but Matt follows and they fight on the second rope and Matt rams Edge's head repeatedly into the cage which knocks Edge off and Edge falls to the canvas, Matt at this point has the match won, he could easily escape out of the cage for the victory, but that's never what Matt Hardy wanted, Matt Hardy wanted revenge, and Matt climbs to the top of the cage and delivers an insane leg drop off the top of the cage onto the bloody face Edge for the win. Matt Hardy for the first and only time in their feud is declared the victor, and it couldn't of been in a more fitting way with him destroying the two people that ruined his life. Absolutely love this match. *****3/4*

One of the best moments of the Ruthless Aggression Era:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn lucky you, Hayley. You wanna know what was my 1st wrestling PPV owned on DVD? Summerslam 2006. Still feel ashamed of myself for that. Although Flair/Foley is :mark:

Oh, and because I own SSlam '06, I've seen Batista/Booker a thousand times from that show. I can assure you i've gave it a DUD, and now in my WHC project I will again. That one's bowling shoe ugly, Batista and Booker sucked balls in the ring together when there wasn't a Finlay in between them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*GIMMIE A FUCKIN' MIC! *

NYR 05 is the GOAT Chamber and nothing else even comes close TBH. I'm not even sure if the first Chamber would still be second or third to me TBH. SD 2010 & 2011 <3 <3 <3

Here's an interesting Cena fact for you ; Cena has been in 4 Chamber matches and has won three, yet only has THREE combined eliminations (those being his three Chamber winning eliminations). That's kind of unbelievable when you think about it.

*John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler (Steel Cage RAW 1/14/13)*

DOLPH vs SOOOPERRR Cena for the second consecutive week here, this time inside the 15 FT. high steel cage where AJ and BIG E can't interfere (NOT LIKE IT MATTERS, THEY INTERFERED LAST WEEK AND CENA STILL WON). Right away Cena and Ziggler start with their nonsense once again, failing to properly build the match before transitioning smoothly into the middle portion of the match for what feels like an eternity. 

We then get COUNTERZ and MOVEZ for a while before Dolph gains control with a sleeper in which Cena proceeds to climb to the top rope whilst still in it. MOVEZ MOVEZ MOVEZ, crazy shit happens involving both AJ and Big E interfering (BECAUSE IT'S TOTALLY NOT THE POINT OF A STEEL CAGE MATCH TO KEEP SOMEBODY OUT, RIGHT?), Ziggy hits two finishers and Cena miraculously kicks out leading to Cena destroying both Big E and DOLPH at once to gain the victory and to end the feud once and for all.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?!?!?! These matches and their structures man, I know Cena and DOLPH can do better than this but at the end of the day it comes don to what kind of match they wanted to have..... I guess Dolph didn't want to work an overly long control segment, but it's Cena's bread and butter so fuck that. Finisher fests only work if it's TWO PEOPLE EXCHANGING FINISHERS, if it's just one person hitting a bunch of finishers then it is STUPID.

Crowd ate that shit up, they has some legitimately good spots in it, and Cena looks like a Greek GOD once again.

** 1/4*​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Where can I find this Edge/HHH match from Japan? Is it on a dvd set? 

I'm not a Cena fan at all (not a hater though) but I respect the hell out of the guy. He has granted more make a wish wishes than anyone (yes ANYONE) and that alone is badass. No he isnt great in the ring and I agree his character is old and stale but I'll hand it to him the last year or so he has had some really great matches. ER with Brock was incredible (and I was not excited for it at all but was blown away)....the triple threat with Punk & Show at Summerslam was good...the Night of the Champions match with Punk was incredible and those two(Cena Brock Cena Punk NoC) are right up there with Punk/Bryan and Taker/Trips for MotY....Ladder match with Dolph at TLC was awesome...that match on RAW a few weeks ago with Punk was great and one of the best matches Ive seen on RAW in a long time. Even the match with Rock at Mania last year was solid. Started out slow but I think it was better than I thought it would be. It would not shock me at all if Cena and Rock have a really good 4 star title match at Mania. I'm also still really hoping for a Cena/Punk Iron Man match at some point. This would have been perfect at Survivor Series had injuries not got in the way. That could be something thats talked about for a long time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Damn lucky you, Hayley. You wanna know what was my 1st wrestling PPV owned on DVD? Summerslam 2006. Still feel ashamed of myself for that. Although Flair/Foley is :mark:
> 
> Oh, and because I own SSlam '06, I've seen Batista/Booker a thousand times from that show. I can assure you i've gave it a DUD, and now in my WHC project I will again. That one's bowling shoe ugly, Batista and Booker sucked balls in the ring together when there wasn't a Finlay in between them.


I got that show for free believe it or not. :lol

Don't watch Batista vs Booker again. You know it's the worst. We all know it is the worst. I'd skip, personally.

---------

Nostalgia - a fine review on a great, great match. It'll never tire out for me. Edge's greatest match ever. Possibly Matt's too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Where can I find this Edge/HHH match from Japan? Is it on a dvd set?


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Just read Big Z's blog on WM 13, and I'm so happy somebody else likes the Vader/Mankind vs. Owen/Bulldog match! I'd rep you but apparently I need to spread some around.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed, pisses me off how people see great performance after great performance from the dude - great matches with everyone, from Lesnar, HHH, HBK, Mysterio, Orton, Punk, Edge, Jericho, Batista, Taker, Lashley, Umaga, JBL, etc. - and they STILL insist that he can't wrestle. Yes, he fucks up some moves (DAT CENACANRANA IS DA BEST WRASSLIN MOVE EVAH YA KNOW :cena3), but he's hard-working as Hell.

And if you think 2012 Cena was good, you should watch his 2007 stuff. The guy was on fire that year, he couldn't wrestle a bad match. He got pretty decent stuff out of 7 minutes with THE GREAT KHALI. You probably know how to wrestle if you can do that.

Pretty much onto the EC '05 closing sequence now. My God what a match has been, let's hope the finish doesn't suck...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Temped to watch atm. b/c I don't remember it a single bit. I liked their Great American Bash 2008 match. Hopefully there was more of the same within the Japan match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


>


Thank you sir!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everyone please heed my advice and watch Finlay vs Kane Belfast Brawl from 9/14/07.

You won't regret it. :kane


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Rey/Tajiri (No Mercy 2003) ****
- Rock/Goldberg (Backlash 2003) ***3/4
- Triple H/Nash (Insurrextion 2003) DUD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*John Cena vs Chris Benoit (RAW 3/19/07)*

Now HERE'S something I can watch and enjoy. Interesting story behind this ; I remember watching this match on TV and when I saw the ending I pretty much wanted to RAGEQUIT wrestling forever and ever because I couldn't stand Cena back in the day (I WUZ A SMARK LOL). Anyways the match starts off and oh my god... Cena's actually calling this. Benoit gives Cena some hard knife edge chops, being the aggressor in the match and gaining control as Cena is the champ in peril here (both are faces so, you know). This comes off as very "Clash of the titans" esque as Shawn is on commentary really putting Benoit over hardcore, and speaking of Shawn, Cena almost decks him but stops which leads to Benoit giving Cena a stiff looking shot to the back of the head.

Back in the ring now and Benoit busts out the triple German suplexes to really fuck Cena up and attempt the diving headbutt of death, which Cena counters. Diggin' this shit so far when we get to our really impressive ending sequence that legit shocked the fuck out of me 6 years ago ; Cena loads up for the FU, which Benoit reverses into a Crossface which Cena transitions into an STFU... For the BENOIT TAP OUT? I couldn't believe my fucking eyes when I saw it at first... I mean.... Submission master John Cena? WOW. Benoit put Cena over hard here in this match, but it was way too fucking short for it's own good. I mean, this can't get eight minutes? REALLY? The potential was there and what they delivered was excellent, but it left me craving more.

You might not be able to stomach the ending, but on a re-watch all these years later you have to stop and appreciate what Benoit did for Cena ; he made the STFU THAT much more legit and made Cena look like even more of an unstoppable champ on the top of the mountain. Definitely recommended to fans of either guy as you just HAVE to see Cena call this one. DAMN.

*** 3/4*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shenanigans!

Goldberg vs Rock is bullocks. Nash vs H is quite a bit of fun.

We're copacetic with the Tajiri match. b/c anything with Tajiri is always top notch.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Everyone please heed my advice and watch Finlay vs Kane Belfast Brawl from 9/14/07.
> 
> You won't regret it. :kane


I will check this out later.

And solid review KOK, don't think I've ever seen that Cena/Benoit match so I'll probably get around to watch that too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Top tier match of 2007. Without a doubt.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHAT THE FUCK.

CENA AND FINLAY HAD A MATCH.

I'M WATCHING THIS SHIT NOW.

:cena4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Me too b/c I'm ever so slightly ashamed I don't recall much from it.

:mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Nostalgia - a fine review on a great, great match. It'll never tire out for me. Edge's greatest match ever. Possibly Matt's too.


Thanks. 

Although I think the opposite, I think it's undoubtedly Matt's greatest match ever, and possibly Edge's too (because you could argue his matches with Taker).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Finlay Vs John Cena - Smackdown December 15th 2006*

No doubt this match has Andy :mark: like mad. Hope its as good as Andy thinks it could be!

:lmao at the Hornswoggle shit in this match. Finlay brings him out, launches him at Cena, who catches him and launches him back at Finlay, who moves (nice of him lol), leaving Hornswoggle to land on JBL who goes apeshit and tries to beat the midget with his hat of all things. Really entertaining moment to break up the match. I guess this is where JBL's hate for Hornswoggle first began, and it took him 2 years before he could get his revenge! 

The match, ahh the match. Everything looks like it hurt. Finlay's offence because, well, he probably was really laying it in, and Cena because the guy is so strong that a slam from him looks like it could break the ring. Add to that the fact that Finlay probably told Cena to work a little stiff too, and you just know both men came out of this one hurting.

Only thing I didn't really like about the match was Cena kicking out of Finlay's finisher, especially after going shoulder first into the steel ring post. Don't really know why I was bothered about it, maybe because after taking the move and kicking out he hits his own, incredibly shitty finisher and gets the win, or the fact that it didn't need to happen at all (would have been better on the PPV maybe). Aside from that, I enjoyed the match, but probably not as much as Andy will when he sees it .

*Rating: ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell in a Cell pretty much being the only one for me. While I love it, I'll gladly take Hardy vs Edge in the cage over it. Taker did his best to bring Edge to a relatively strong series of matches. Outside of the shoddy TLC match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm throwing **** 1/2* @ Cena-Finlay. Stuff fucking match that gets some time to really shine out there, what the hell was up with Smackdown 2006 and their epic, epic matches? Cena THROWING (and I mean fucking THROWING) Hornswoggle was awesome, would have been better if he had hit something instead of just landing in JBL's arms :lol

The match was Cena's style mixed in with Finlay's style and it worked BIG TIME. Great, GREAT television match here, and the first ****+* Cena match I've watched out of like the last 20 :lol.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena/Finlay? WHAT THE FUCK? MUST WATCH!!!! :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> MOVEZ!*
> SPOTZ!*
> FUCKERY!*
> 
> ...


Here's a better name... *1000 Suplexes, 500 Angle Slams and 100 Ankle Locks: The Kurt Angle Story*.

Even though I like Angle a lot more than most here, I can't help but notice how reliant he is on his "big spots" and goes for them SO DAMN MUCH.



ATF said:


> About to return to my WHC project. Can you hand thoughts on it so far, as well as these next matches:
> 
> HHH/Maven 04
> HHH/Benoit/Edge
> ...


HHH/Maven - ★★★ (All the interference and the way HHH made it look like his jobber opponent actually stood a chance makes it better)
HHH/Benoit/Edge - ★★★½
EC NYR 05 - ★★★★¾
HHH/Edge - ★★★
HHH/Orton RR - ★★★½
HHH/Batista I - ★★★

And just so you don't forget, between Batista/HHH part 2 and 3, Batista defends the title against Christian and Edge in two different matches. You can always go to profightdb to see which matches involve the WHC.



HayleySabin said:


> I got that show for free believe it or not. :lol
> 
> Don't watch Batista vs Booker again. You know it's the worst. We all know it is the worst. I'd skip, personally.


I feel bad for myself. Heard a lot of bad shit about it and I'm almost at SummerSlam now. (just entered July with this following Raw I'm watching now)



KingOfKings said:


> You might not be able to stomach the ending, but on a re-watch all these years later you have to stop and appreciate what Benoit did for Cena ; he made the STFU THAT much more legit and made Cena look like even more of an unstoppable champ on the top of the mountain. Definitely recommended to fans of either guy as you just HAVE to see Cena call this one. DAMN.


Even though I like Cena, that ending is really hard to stomach. That said, Benoit never hesitated to tap out to put over submission holds as legit. He even tapped out when A-Train and Edge put him in the Crossface during segments. Some assholes tried to start a "You tapped out" chant when the latter happened but nobody wanted to chant along because Benoit was just that respected.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam has a few bright points and a few horrid moments on it, C2D. Noteworthy matches: Foley vs Flair despite a shit finish, DX vs McMahons in a sleeper match that was one of the most fun of 2006, & a damn fine Cena vs Edge match that no doubt was their best work vs one another. I won't lie, despite Sabu being a botch machine, his match vs Big Show is fun when you turn your brain off.

Finlay vs Cena earns ***. It was good. Nothing more than such. Finlay's work was on point per usual. Cena was working unusually here. I sort of liked his late 80's power face set of moves in the early going. Fun on nostalgic purposes. He grew so much almost the moment 2007 began. Finlay helped mold this match very well for me. Didn't care for the finish much. Cena's injured arm flies into the post, he gets nailed with the Celtic Cross, kicks out, hits an F-U and wins. Love me some John-boy, but meh at the Hogan finish for me. Expected, only this time around I can't say I bought into it. Good match nonetheless.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004:* ***. So, after Eugene challenged for the World Title, now we get Maven as an opponent for HHH? Pretty sure that's far worse than having Zack Ryder challenge Sheamus for the WWE Title. Anyways, this was match was a solid little thing, mostly highlighted by Trips being an awesome heel once again. Maven came off kinda finished after taking a brutal beating AND a vicious chair shot in the head the night before at Survivor Series from Snitsky, and Hunter lost no time in capitalizing on that. Maven also had a good comeback moment, which was good while it lasted. Everything else was your typical stuff, nothing more nothing else. Next, please.

*HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004:* ***1/2. This was pretty legit. HHH is such a cowardly dick, I can't praise him enough. The guy is an all time expert on heel psychology: he stood there, letting Benoit and Edge beat the crap out of each other. Edge gains the upper hand in that brawl, baseball-slides Benoit into a stiff fall by the latter, and when he brings him back into the ring, H attacks Edge and goes directly to work on the battered Chris. Pretty certain that happened many times I know, but it's still the absolute Heel Attitude In Triple Threat Matches 101. I'm a sucker for great psychology, I'll admit it :side: Anywho, this match was filled with a lot of great heel/face work, with Benoit doing an awesome job as the underdog face in between two calculistic and unpredictable heels like Edge and Hunter. I thought it would've gotten a little dull when it was Edge vs. HHH the moment Evolution (predictably) hit the ring, but it was damn fine there too. Not a single dull moment in the match, actually. Selling was good, crowd heat was good too, and the finish is one of the rare times that I actually liked for it's sake. Really underrated gem, here.

*Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005:* ****3/4. If not for the sequence in the final 3-way (Orton, Batista and H), this would've UNQUESTIONABLY been ***** and the GOAT Chamber. Absolutely insane and incredible. High starpower? Check, I mean the lesser star is Batista out of the whole bunch. Benoit vs. Jericho having a little clinic to start things off? Check. Brutal bladejobs from start to finish? Check. Innovative violence, with some awesome moments and spots like Jericho being thrown into the cameraman and the Diving Headbutt from the fucking pod? Check. Surreal crowd heat? Check. Terrific psychology? Check. The creation of stars in the likes of Batista and Edge? Check. Setting up of the Mania Main Event close to perfectly? Check. Really, outside of a proper finish, this had it all. The finish sticks up SS 2002 as the better Chamber for me, but still is this unthinkably phenomenal? Oh Hell yes it is. For Elimination Chamber fans, this is a classic, a piece of amazingness and a must-watch. 'Nuff said here.

*CURRENT RANK OF WHC MATCHES:
*HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)

*NEXT:* A Japanese crowd pops, an RKO is missed, and a Game is busted open...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I adored that match man, I'm not even going to lie. 

Watching Cena-Christian from 2011 now. Going through PROFIGHTDB and watching as many singles matches from different CENA opponents as possible. I really wanna get a feel for how Cena works TV matches with various guys. Cena's pretty much known for being the ultimate PPV performer when he's fired up but damn when paired with the right guy he can work wonders on free TV.

Cena-Christian is short as fuck and essentially a Cena showcase with a screwy finish. Disappointing considering I'm pretty sure they go out there and tear the house down on any given night. FUCK. 

***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know what Cena matches you should check out? His tags from 2008 on RAW.

w/Cryme Tyme vs JBL & Priceless x2 (first one being the stand out)
w/Batista vs Priceless x2 (again, first one was the pretty great match iirc)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Couldn't agree with the praise of the 05 chamber anymore. FUCK, THAT MATCH RULES!



HayleySabin said:


> SummerSlam has a few bright points and a few horrid moments on it, C2D. Noteworthy matches: Foley vs Flair despite a shit finish, DX vs McMahons in a sleeper match that was one of the most fun of 2006, & a damn fine Cena vs Edge match that no doubt was their best work vs one another. I won't lie, despite Sabu being a botch machine, his match vs Big Show is fun when you turn your brain off.


I've seen Edge/Cena, Flair/Foley and Hogan/Orton already. All three were good/average at worst. Gotta rewatch them, though. And I'm sure I can enjoy Sabu's match since I'm also a sucker for SPOTZ.

EDIT: LOL @ Batista/Cena vs Priceless. Didn't the former two start their feud because Cena accidentally hit Batista instead of Cody/Ted? Talk about silly reasoning.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Am I the only one who thinks HHH/Maven is better than HHH/Taka in terms of the "holy shit the underdog might win" type of thing? I loved that HHH/Maven match so much. "COVER HIS ASS!!!!!"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fucking LOVE that Cena/HBK vs Taker/Batista tag from NWO 2007, that HBK/Cena/Taker interaction :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I watched the Finlay/Kane Belfast Brawl from '07. 'Brawl' is definitely the best word for it. This match is fight and both men just pound on each other during the first part, hoping the other one will break. Finlay has some good control segments working on Kane's arm and bashes it in with a chair too. Kane using the board from the announcers table was fun, and him toying Finlay with the shillelagh towards the end was good, only for Finlay to sneak out with a win. Good heel work from Finlay throughout. Kane was a little slow around the ring here but still contributed well. Solid TV match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Looks like I have some Cena tag matches to check out as well. I always wondered how that NWO '07 tag match was. That and Armageddon '06 as well.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Hell in a Cell pretty much being the only one for me. While I love it, I'll gladly take Hardy vs Edge in the cage over it. Taker did his best to bring Edge to a relatively strong series of matches. Outside of the shoddy TLC match.


Yeah, I'd probably take Hardy/Edge over the Taker matches, but I'm just saying _one could argue them_. And out of curiosity you said that might possibly be Matt's best match, perhaps hinting that there may be other matches on par or very close, so what Matt matches in your opinion come close to that match then? (just talking singles matches). I mean, I think it's undoubtedly Matt's best match because I can't think of anything that comes even close to that Cage match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NWO '07 is awesome, Armageddon '06... isn't. Average at best. One Cena tag you have to look for is w/Punk vs. Show & Bryan from, I believe, last year's SSlam go-home Raw. That was very good.

I'm looking forward too to see Cena stepping up to the WHC realm. SS 2008 vs Jericho is awesome, 09 Raw EC is awesome, Last Man Standing vs Edge is awesome, and there's gotta be something else in between. Has quite the potential.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I've seen Edge/Cena, Flair/Foley and Hogan/Orton already. All three were good/average at worst. Gotta rewatch them, though. And I'm sure I can enjoy Sabu's match since I'm also a sucker for SPOTZ.
> 
> EDIT: LOL @ Batista/Cena vs Priceless. Didn't the former two start their feud because Cena accidentally hit Batista instead of Cody/Ted? Talk about silly reasoning.


Got to see the tag match then. OWNS.

some crap like that. Cena vs Batista build for SummerSlam 2008 was hilariously poor. Lucky the match was so good.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I watched the Finlay/Kane Belfast Brawl from '07. 'Brawl' is definitely the best word for it. This match is fight and both men just pound on each other during the first part, hoping the other one will break. Finlay has some good control segments working on Kane's arm and bashes it in with a chair too. Kane using the board from the announcers table was fun, and him toying Finlay with the shillelagh towards the end was good, only for Finlay to sneak out with a win. Good heel work from Finlay throughout. Kane was a little slow around the ring here but still contributed well. Solid TV match.


2007 TV match of the year for me. Unbelievable stuff.



sharkboy22 said:


> Looks like I have some Cena tag matches to check out as well. I always wondered how that NWO '07 tag match was. That and Armageddon '06 as well.


NWO match is great. Armageddon match sucks.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched that HHH/Edge match from Japan. Can't say I really thought much of it, but I'm confused as to when it happened. Was it after Batista had won the Rumble? It was clearly before he had made his decision to fight Trips at Mania.

Match was pretty straightforward, I guess. I did like Trips countering the spear with the Harley Race. I mark for his 5 moves. Facebuster, Harley Race knee, Arn Anderson's spinebuster, Flair's knee drop. 

Crowd was strangely silent until they magically awoke for the LOUD AS FUCK 1-2-3.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Just watched that HHH/Edge match from Japan. Can't say I really thought much of it, but I'm confused as to when it happened. Was it after Batista had won the Rumble? It was clearly before he had made his decision to fight Trips at Mania.
> 
> Match was pretty straightforward, I guess. I did like Trips countering the spear with the Harley Race. I mark for his 5 moves. Facebuster, Harley Race knee, Arn Anderson's spinebuster, Flair's knee drop.
> 
> Crowd was strangely silent until they magically awoke for the LOUD AS FUCK 1-2-3.


It is from 7 February 2005. A week or two after the Royal Rumble. Batista didn't make his decision until the night after No Way Out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Yeah, I'd probably take Hardy/Edge over the Taker matches, but I'm just saying _one could argue them_. And out of curiosity you said that might possibly be Matt's best match, perhaps hinting that there may be other matches on par or very close, so what Matt matches in your opinion come close to that match then? (just talking singles matches).


Specifically vs Finlay 6/22/07. Arguable to say it is Matt's strongest babyface performance ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched Cena-Henry that happens on the RAW before No Way Out 2008 (Orton is on commentary and actually has a resemblance of a personality although you could tell it was going downhill), and although it was extremely short and I can't really rate it, it's certainly recommended due to Cena's strong babyface performance and the strategy he employs to take the MONSTER down and make him tap out like the wise submission master that he is.

Moving on to Cena's first and ONLY match on ECW TV as he takes on Johnny Nitro in one of his last performances before becoming John Morrison in a champion vs champion bout on 6/26/07. It's looking pretty good so far and it gets TIME. Cena's 2007 run is fucking BOSS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> It is from 7 February 2005. A week or two after the Royal Rumble. Batista didn't make his decision until the night after No Way Out.


That was also the night with a Benoit/Jericho submission match I believe. Great great match and ***3/4.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> - Triple H/Nash (Insurrextion 2003) DUD


Explain please? 

Fun, overbooked match. *** 1/4 for me. Essentially a tag.\


And btw, this Triple H/Edge match from Japan is on the _Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century_ set.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs Johnny Nitro (ECW 6/26/07) : *** 3/4*

Nice TV match here as it gets alot of time to shine. Cena calls this one all the way as Nitro is about to become John Morrison in a few weeks. There are a few things that hinder it from going into GREAT territory such as Morrison's offense towards the end of the match being extremely suspect, but how they build Cena's comeback and sell the first few minutes of this as being a legit champion vs champion big time match is awesome. Nitro wasn't the greatest at this point in time and it took a guy like Cena to go and get some of the best out of him. Cena's only foray into the land of Extreme and he let his presence be felt throughout. Solid main event, worth a look.

I've got to give these JOHN BOY matches a break and hit the gym. FUCK. Going to listen to "The Time Is Now" on a constant loop with perhaps "Basic Thuganomics" thrown in there. I actually own Cena's rap CD, it's actually not that bad believe it or not, his style in very INDY-ISH.

:cena3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Man, glad to see Cena's 2007 run getting the recognition it deserved. I was only 12 at the time, so it's only natural that I was a Cena mark and that everything he did was gold, but I knew there was some strong booking to his '07 run. When I started going on the internet to discuss wrestling in about 2008, I always used to mention Cena's 07 run but people would shut me down. Nice to see it getting some love.

Just finished Cena/Finlay. It gets ****1/2* from me. Really liked it. Now onto that NWO tag.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, I went to the gym a little bit ago. Made a HUGE fucking mistake by doing legs today after I got straight hammered last night and got like 4 and a half hours of sleep. Whatevs, still pushed 6 plates for reps. (not squats, leg press )\


Back on topic, we need more WCW dvds. Ones that don't shit on the company.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Just watched Cena-Henry that happens on the RAW before No Way Out 2008 (Orton is on commentary and actually has a resemblance of a personality although you could tell it was going downhill), and although it was extremely short and I can't really rate it, it's certainly recommended due to Cena's strong babyface performance and the strategy he employs to take the MONSTER down and make him tap out like the wise submission master that he is.
> 
> Moving on to Cena's first and ONLY match on ECW TV as he takes on Johnny Nitro in one of his last performances before becoming John Morrison in a champion vs champion bout on 6/26/07. It's looking pretty good so far and it gets TIME. Cena's 2007 run is fucking BOSS.


Orton has always been full of personality. He just had a dull period for a couple of years in 2011 and 2012. He's starting to feel it again recently when talking!

And that ECW match takes place on the most tragic show in WWE history. The official "We'll start pretending that Benoit never existed" show which to me will always overshadow that ECW episode.



The Rawk said:


> That was also the night with a Benoit/Jericho submission match I believe. Great great match and ***3/4.


Yep, an underrated match between Benoit/Jericho that gets overlooked by their series in 2000.



KingOfKings said:


> I've got to give these JOHN BOY matches a break and hit the gym. FUCK. Going to listen to "The Time Is Now" on a constant loop with perhaps "Basic Thuganomics" thrown in there. I actually own Cena's rap CD, it's actually not that bad believe it or not, his style in very INDY-ISH.


I've got both his themes on my iPod and have listened to them plenty of times on the way to school and back. John is a good rapper too despite the stereotype that "outsiders can't rap".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport#.UU3wxxyR98E

Finlay vs Matt Hardy 6/22/07. You wanna talk about amazing babyface portrayals? Look no further than right here via Matt Hardy. He gets systematically demolished by Finlay, yet his buring rage to compete & send the fans home happy in his home state is so intense he simply would not die. Brilliant match, quite frankly. Captures the natural essence of both men's work in a sub-16 minute format. I miss TV matches like these.

Finlay WWE project has officially begun btw. It's sporadic though. For some reason I'm working through 2007 first. No biggie. Goodness is goodness. Three Finlay matches from '07 slammed through in no time and all have been in the ****+ range. As if I needed stars to speak for Finlay's work, they still can for those who use them for their ranking systems.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005:* ***. Like iwatchwrestling says, this was as straightforward as possible. But can you really blame them - it was heel vs. heel, in JAPAN. Japanese crowds dislike heel vs. heel matches heavily. Anyways, the wrestling itself was pretty good, with some nice counters (like the aforementioned Spear into Spinebuster), and as expected with Hunter, awesome psychology. The crowd brings it down a few notches, but the BRUTAL awakening at the end of the match did raise it back. Their match from GAB 2008 was far superior from what I remember, but this one's good enough for a fun and quick ride.

*HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005:* ***1/4. Inferior to Unforgiven, but sure as Hell superior to their WrassleMenicrap anyway (I'll never tire mocking that son of a bitch, HATE THAT UNDERWHELMING SUBPAR PIECE OF CRAP). This was, once again, enjoyable for what it was, but at this point, Orton's face run had fallen completely flat. With it down on its final knees, the rather underwhelming reaction he had was the final straw for the WWE to have enough and righfully turn Orton heel again, and moving him onto the amazing feud with Taker. As far as this is concerned, the kneework was nice, the DDT spot that led to the kayfabe concussion looked good, and the finish was cheap... again. Alike the Edge Japan match, if you're looking for a fun timekiller, this might do the job, but it's not UBERRECOMMENDED like, say, their No Mercy 2007 LMS match is. Not a lightyear close to that actually.

*HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21:* ***. Well, what can I say other than "OK" for it. The memorability, historical significance, and HHHBLADEJOBOMGOMG effect rose a lil' that rating, I'll admit it. But it was OK for what it was. Nothing special at all, more importantly that if you're talking about the wrestling here. The selling from Batista was blah (he became a much better seller 2 years later when he started to "learn" in the feud with Taker), and blah selling was what you had to put up for more than half of the match. Not to mention, the match was a little too slow paced for my liking. Still, the meh wrestling mixed with the other factors I just mentioned made for an overall OK World Heavyweight Title WrestleMania MAIN EVENT... how I wish they made it Hell In A Cell and had the Vengeance match 2 months before Vengeance.

*UPDATED WHC MATCH RANKS LIST:*
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)

*NEXT:* The Pedigree is feared, Captain Charisma rises, and Edge puts money in his bank mouth...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Japanese crowds dislike heel vs heel matches? Wouldn't say that. Especially right now. Hottest feud within New Japan Pro Wrestling is two heel factions vs one another. Certainly one is playing the role of the face in the mix, yet that's thanks to the fans loving so many of those guys as it is. Certain it all depends on who is working more than any major significant to what the character alignment happens to be.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Japanese crowds dislike heel vs heel matches? Wouldn't say that. Especially right now. Hottest feud within New Japan Pro Wrestling is two heel factions vs one another. Certainly one is playing the role of the face in the mix, yet that's thanks to the fans loving so many of those guys as it is. Certain it all depends on who is working more than any major significant to what the character alignment happens to be.


Alright then, though I'm pretty sure I've seen one or two heel vs. heel matches from Japan before in which the crowds were DEAD. As you say, may depend on who's involved or how the character develops.

Anyways, getting closer and closer to HHH/BATISTA HIAC :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another great post, ATF. Agree with your ratings for them too.

About to watch Edge vs RVD vs Cena triple threat now. Is it any good? The whole show has been fun to watch with DX taking control of the production stuff and messing around. It could've done with MOAR ORTON, though. All that happened involving him was a video package of Hogan's heel turn from the same day at BATB and then he came out and basically asked Brooke out on a date in a 1 minute promo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Alright then, though I'm pretty sure I've seen one or two heel vs. heel matches from Japan before in which the crowds were DEAD. As you say, may depend on who's involved or how the character develops.
> 
> Anyways, getting closer and closer to HHH/BATISTA HIAC :mark:


Also can differ considering the type of match worked too. If it is dirty vs dirty, fans could simply watch but not react in the fashion they normally do. Crowds there are very different as we all know.

HIAC match is :mark:



Choke2Death said:


> Another great post, ATF. Agree with your ratings for them too.
> 
> About to watch Edge vs RVD vs Cena triple threat now. Is it any good? The whole show has been fun to watch with DX taking control of the production stuff and messing around. It could've done with MOAR ORTON, though. All that happened involving him was a video package of Hogan's heel turn from the same day at BATB and then he came out and basically asked Brooke out on a date in a 1 minute promo.


It's pretty solid. I'd take it over the ONS Cena vs RVD match, but not over Cena vs Edge SummerSlam or RVD vs Edge Vengeance respectively.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Cena/RVD/Edge triple threat is pretty good. Awesome that we got that on free TV as the Raw main event.

I'll concur and say the Trips/Batista HIAC is :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Funny thing is, RVD/Cena from ONS is my favorite of the bunch. Also any thoughts on Cena vs RVD from Raw 26/6 and RVD vs Angle from ECW 27/6? The latter was solid but ruined by the stupid high pitched voices chanting "We want Cena". Who said only smarks can ruin a match by idiotic chants?

Just got done with the triple threat. Very good match with some solid action involving all three but I think they could've done with more nearfalls that get broken up. I don't recall a single time where one guy pinned another and then the third one broke it up. Edge winning the way he did perfectly fit his "ultimate opportunist" character, though. ★★★½.

And downloaded a torrent of the best 2008 PPV matches, gonna be some fun I hope as there are plenty of matches I've heard good things about but haven't seen so far.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport#.UU3wxxyR98E
> 
> Finlay vs Matt Hardy 6/22/07. You wanna talk about amazing babyface portrayals? Look no further than right here via Matt Hardy. He gets systematically demolished by Finlay, yet his buring rage to compete & send the fans home happy in his home state is so intense he simply would not die. Brilliant match, quite frankly. Captures the natural essence of both men's work in a sub-16 minute format. I miss TV matches like these.
> 
> Finlay WWE project has officially begun btw. It's sporadic though. For some reason I'm working through 2007 first. No biggie. Goodness is goodness. Three Finlay matches from '07 slammed through in no time and all have been in the ****+ range. As if I needed stars to speak for Finlay's work, they still can for those who use them for their ranking systems.


This was the match you were referring to, right? Will have to check it out sometime. (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For curiosity sakes, thoughts on the horribly subpar SummerSlam 2004, folks?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> For curiosity sakes, thoughts on the horribly subpar SummerSlam 2004, folks?


I quite like Taker/JBL cos.....................its the Taker, and Orton/Benoit is excellent


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The IC, WWE and World Heavyweight Championship matches were all good IMO. With the latter being a classic of course. HHH/Eugene was good too but the rest was subpar.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hit and miss event. Though Orton/Benoit is pretty awesome and I like Taker/JBL too.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

ATF said:


> For curiosity sakes, thoughts on the horribly subpar SummerSlam 2004, folks?


* Dudley Boyz vs. Mysterio, Kidman & London. ★★3/4
* Kane vs. Hardy. ★1/2
* Cena vs. Booker T. ★1/4
* Intercontinental Champion Edge vs. Jericho vs. Batista. ★★1/2 
* Angle vs. Guerrero. ★★★1/2
* Triple H vs. Eugene. ★★★1/2
* WWE Champion JBL vs. Undertaker. ★★
* World Champion Benoit vs. Orton. ★★★★


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just popped in Shawn Michaels: My Journey, which I haven't watched in a few years. I'm a bit disappointed that Jim Ross didn't do the interview, but Michael Cole is off to a good start. 

It's so cool hearing HBK talk about how he didn't like the "boyhood dream has been realized" and being that happy-go-lucky character. And how the match with Foley at Mind Games gave him the chance to show some edge in his character. 

Time for Foley/Mankind on Raw in 1997. The start of THOSE DEGENERATES.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWE should out a new Flair set DVD set with never seen before released or seen on on DVD since first release like the Bret Hart one and my life will be perfect.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HBK/British Bulldog at One Night Only for the European Title. That was a great chance to get Shawn heat with them being in England. Triple H, Chyna, and Rick Rude being the dirty heel faction attacking Bulldog did just that. Then the Figure Four following the attack. Crowd filling the ring with trash is epic. 

Damn, Shawn had trash thrown at him the whole time he went back up the ramp. Trips with that epic FRENCH BRAID PONYTAIL.

HBK/Taker at the Royal Rumble time. Jim Ross did such a great such of selling Shawn's accomplishments. Talking about how he's the only Grand Slam winner (at the time), and not even Hogan or Savage could match that. One of the things that makes JR the GOAT of all time commentator.

:lol at Tyson's retarding looking crotch chop.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Flair/Michaels (Bad Blood 2003) **
- Benoit/Edge (Backlash 2005) **



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Explain please?
> 
> Fun, overbooked match. *** 1/4 for me. Essentially a tag.\


They bored the shit outta me, I understand they were trying to recreate the Attitude Era chaos, but it didn't work for me. Not to mention Nash was painfully slow.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) - One Night Stand 2008*
- What is it with these two and LMS matches? Seems like every time they have a match with this stipulation, they're truly "on" their game. I'm a bigger fan of their matches than others but even I admit the peak of their matches is the LMS in No Mercy. Here it's the usual stuff with them starting out slow and brawling in and around the ring but then getting more violent as they introduce weapons into the match. Unfortunately, only 10 minutes into it, Orton misses an RKO and goes over the top rope and lands hard with his shoulder on the outside which forces them to improvise as HHH gives him a sledgehammer shot for the quick victory. Match was really taking off and becoming great until this stopped all the momentum and what we're left it in the end is an okay match that was on its way to be a potential classic. That said, Orton was awesome when walking to the back as he yelled "SHUT THE FUCK UP" (towards the fans I'd assume) and then even has a verbal exchange with some kid in the front row. ★★¾



JoeRulz said:


> - Flair/Michaels (Bad Blood 2003) **
> *- Benoit/Edge (Backlash 2005) ***


Huh?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I watched that Nash/Trips match the other day. Think I gave it about **1/2. Had it's fun moments but I agree Nash was slow as fuck. I liked Flair and HBK in it though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck Insurrextion 2003. That whole PPV can burn in hell . Stupid disappointing no showing piece of shit...

And I realise nobody understands what I'm saying... ah well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Fuck Insurrextion 2003. That whole PPV can burn in hell . Stupid disappointing no showing piece of shit...
> 
> And I realise nobody understands what I'm saying... ah well.


Lemme guess - you went to that show and someone you wanted didn't show up? :cool2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I remember ordering all the Rebellions and Insurrextions and watching them live totally felt weird. Since over here wrestling has always been a late night thing, having the show start at like 8 p.m was strange. More convenient, but strange. Plus it never helped that you knew nothing 'big' was going to go down on these UK-only PPVs. Not surprised they pulled the plug on them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Lemme guess - you went to that show and someone you wanted didn't show up? :cool2


Nope.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

the main event didn't deliver? the whole card didn't deliver?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Maybe your Sky Box Office sucked that night and the PPV cut out? This guessing game is fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> the main event didn't deliver? the whole card didn't deliver?


Nope. Well yeah, these UK PPV's usually sucked balls, but that's not it .



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Maybe your Sky Box Office sucked that night and the PPV cut out? This guessing game is fun.


Nope, saw the whole thing.

No point in guessing, I ain't gonna say what it is anyway lol. Best to just ignore it .

I'm off to bed. Work 2morrow if the snow doesn't get bad again during the night. Couldn't get there today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Funny thing is, RVD/Cena from ONS is my favorite of the bunch. Also any thoughts on Cena vs RVD from Raw 26/6 and RVD vs Angle from ECW 27/6? The latter was solid but ruined by the stupid high pitched voices chanting "We want Cena". Who said only smarks can ruin a match by idiotic chants?
> 
> Just got done with the triple threat. Very good match with some solid action involving all three but I think they could've done with more nearfalls that get broken up. I don't recall a single time where one guy pinned another and then the third one broke it up. Edge winning the way he did perfectly fit his "ultimate opportunist" character, though. ★★★½.


RVD vs Cena from that RAW is MUCH better than their PPV match. ONS match is trash. Cena squashes Van Dam till Edge spears him. Total bore of a match.



Nostalgia said:


> This was the match you were referring to, right? Will have to check it out sometime. (Y)


(Y)

Terrific performance from both men. Such a great match.



ATF said:


> For curiosity sakes, thoughts on the horribly subpar SummerSlam 2004, folks?


Summed it up in your post as it is. Subpar.

Benoit vs Orton is great, Trips vs Eugene is pretty awesome, and that's about it.



Christian Louboutin said:


> WWE should out a new Flair set DVD set with never seen before released or seen on on DVD since first release like the Bret Hart one and my life will be perfect.


I'm pushing for one too. Wow at the potential a set like that could bring.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

EUGENE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Getting mad that Finlay's second ever WWE match on TV is seemingly lost in the world of wrestling right now. No mention of it on Profightdb & can't find the match on dailymotion. About to try youtube. Fingers crossed. iirc it was vs Funaki. Almost certain of that.

found it :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Getting mad that Finlay's second ever WWE match on TV is seemingly lost in the world of wrestling right now. No mention of it on Profightdb & can't find the match on dailymotion. About to try youtube. Fingers crossed. iirc it was vs Funaki. Almost certain of that.
> 
> found it :mark:


Just as I was about to post the link, you edited yours. I always search on google instead of one of the specific sites. That way, you can get all the links including non-YT/DM sites and often they have full matches that you can't find on either of the main sites.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I LOVE TO FIGHT


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Explain please?
> 
> Fun, overbooked match. *** 1/4 for me. Essentially a tag.\
> 
> ...


Which I own and totally forgot until a few hours ago. So many dvd sets so little time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) 

Thanks for the help guys. I usually go to google to find the first match. Than when I'm one on of the streaming sites I tend to get immersed into the search on there and pick for the selection without realizing I should probably go back to google to search from the start.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Everyone should watch the three-ways and four-ways with Batista, Booker, and Lashley that Finlay pretty much completely carries on his own including one where he takes a broken chunk of the announce table and chucks it at Batista's head. Also Finlay v Rey Mysterio 11/9/07 is really great and should be watched but WHA/EV.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Backlash 2004 is fucking awesome. Much love for this show, as it is the first PPV I ever owned on DVD. Between the Orton/Foley IC Title Hardcore Match and the triple threat rematch from WM 20, you can't go wrong. I have watched this PPV countless times, and it never gets old. 

Also, the opener is...Shelton Benjamin versus NAITCH! Shows how much potential Shelton had and it seemed like they were really behind him in 2004 into 2005 but then his momma showed up and yeah.

Have both Foley/Orton and HHH/HBK/Benoit 2 at ****1/2 BTW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Everyone should watch the three-ways and four-ways with Batista, Booker, and Lashley that Finlay pretty much completely carries on his own including one where he takes a broken chunk of the announce table and chucks it at Batista's head. Also Finlay v Rey Mysterio 11/9/07 is really great and should be watched but WHA/EV.


Going to be a foregone conclusion that I'll watch them. so omg? Maybe a little bit.

can't find Finlay vs Lashley lumberjack match now. Even tried via google and all I found was a review written by CAL. 8*D


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

pjc33 said:


> Backlash 2004 is fucking awesome. Much love for this show, as it is the first PPV I ever owned on DVD. Between the Orton/Foley IC Title Hardcore Match and the triple threat rematch from WM 20, you can't go wrong. I have watched this PPV countless times, and it never gets old.
> 
> Also, the opener is...Shelton Benjamin versus NAITCH! Shows how much potential Shelton had and it seemed like they were really behind him in 2004 into 2005 but then his momma showed up and yeah.
> 
> Have both Foley/Orton and HHH/HBK/Benoit 2 at ****1/2 BTW.


Agreed. And I have Foley/Orton and HHH/HBK/Benoit II at the same ratings. And shelton/Flair and Jericho/Christian/Trish were FUN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now every other Finlay vs Mysterio match is available except for their first time encounter on 3/24/06.

FUCK.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i found finlay vs lashley for the US championship


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Now every other Finlay vs Mysterio match is available except for their first time encounter on 3/24/06.
> 
> FUCK.


Is this the one where Orton trolls Mysterio with that Mid-Air RKO?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same. Their first official match eludes me though. Same with vs Mysterio. Tis a problem considering I want to watch the matches where he works vs the same opponent, often, in order. Get a better feel for how or if the matches progress or regress most of the time. Plus, notice the callbacks & nuances.

Yep. RKO takes out Mysterio ---> to Finlay pin.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

pjc33 said:


> Is this the one where Orton trolls Mysterio with that Mid-Air RKO?


And then walks away with his best "I don't give a fuck" face.

I can upload that match on YT since I have all of 06*. Seems like WWE have gone easy with the blocking as I even got Orton vs HBK from Survivor Series uploaded without a strike or video blocked.

* = Not until tomorrow


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All up to you to take the time in doing so. At this rate I can't find jack on Finlay's 2006 during the Spring months. Scratch that, most of his work during the first 5 months of his WWE career. vs Benoit I & Finlay/JBL vs Benoit/Lashley from Feb are seemingly nowhere to be found themselves.

Can't even find Finlay vs Paul Burchill which is the debut of Hornswoggle iirc. Figured that one would have been a lock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> All up to you to take the time in doing so. At this rate I can't find jack on Finlay's 2006 during the Spring months. Scratch that, most of his work during the first 5 months of his WWE career. vs Benoit I & Finlay/JBL vs Benoit/Lashley from Feb are seemingly nowhere to be found themselves.
> 
> Can't even find Finlay vs Paul Burchill which is the debut of Hornswoggle iirc. Figured that one would have been a lock.


I noticed that when I was trying to watch 2006 on YouTube. Could barely find a damn thing on it other than a select few full shows. Thankfully XWT was the answer but in my case, I'm watching the full shows so it makes sense to download the whole pack.

I'll see what I can do to upload as much as possible, my channel has been coming along nicely with 9 or 10 videos so far getting past the 'barricade'. And if you are looking for Benoit/Finlay from May, I uploaded the whole show a few weeks ago. (match is otherwise nonexistent online)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's off youtube now? Damn. Found it before and figured I'd jump on it right now. Guess I'm lucky you uploaded the show that it occurs on. (Y)

Debating getting the pack, but I never had luck with those. Tried the ECW '09 set piece by piece and it STILL wouldn't load up for me. Quite bunk.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'll find you a 2006 pack CODY.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

pjc33 said:


> Backlash 2004 is fucking awesome. Much love for this show, as it is the first PPV I ever owned on DVD. Between the Orton/Foley IC Title Hardcore Match and the triple threat rematch from WM 20, you can't go wrong. I have watched this PPV countless times, and it never gets old.
> 
> Also, the opener is...Shelton Benjamin versus NAITCH! Shows how much potential Shelton had and it seemed like they were really behind him in 2004 into 2005 but then his momma showed up and yeah.
> 
> Have both Foley/Orton and HHH/HBK/Benoit 2 at ****1/2 BTW.



I love that ppv and own it as well. I adore the Foley/Orton match and the triple threat is almost as good as Mania. 

It bums me out that Shelton didn't get a run with the WHC even if for only a couple months. Was there ever a better SCM than the one he took from HBK in that Raw match? Good lord. I'd love to see him back in the E.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If he'd pick his game back up a return would be greatly welcomed. Doubtful. He was getting poorer and poorer during his final stretch with the company. With Shelton working the upcoming ROH show vs Charlie Haas, I'm even unsure if he'll be heading to WWE now despite what rumors all were leaning towards.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Randy "Macho Man" Savage vs *shudders* "Quick Draw" Rick McGraw (eh fuck the date) ***1/2

Savage's WWF(E) debut. He had heat throughout the match, but also wowed the MSG crowd. Savage pissed off the crowd to the point where someone launched a drink at him. A majority of the match was Savage drawing the ire of the crowd and his opponent through heel tactics (cheap shots, leaving the ring for an extended period).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Am I the only one who marks for the way Savage threw his clotheslines during his matches? Running + falling with opponent to add more force after delivering. Such a slick spot.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Yeah, I was liking those clotheslines. Better than rton and The Great Kaca.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lol

Orton's clotheslines. Constantly shielding my eyes the moment he gets a hot tag or begins his standard finishing stretch.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Weak Red Rover style tap, followed by a quick spaz turn. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like Orton's clotheslines. But then again, is there anything about this guy I _don't_? rton2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's like a long wet noodle being slapped over the chest of his opponents. Suppose we're all lucky he doesn't do his Lou Thesz press anymore. One less crummy move to witness.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Does he even do that modified backbreaker anymore?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Does he even do that modified backbreaker anymore?


In like every match. I'm glad because it's an awesome move.

I wish he would bring back the Crossbody, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's remained an Orton staple. His longest standing move iirc.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Huh, I guess I haven't been paying attention. Stems from him being on autopilot and not shaking up his TV matches. They all blend together. 

Legend Killer, please stand up.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

On the topic of Orton, how awesome was he in SD! yesterday? Playing the peacemaker rton2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not a surprise, Tony.

Seeing a glimpse of him in a 6 man circa 2006 today got me feeling nostalgic. *sigh*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton's coolest move is totally that straight drop where he goes from holding his opponent on one shoulder straight down to a neckbreaker. So fucking swift. I used to be the guy's biggest fan...


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm still a fan, but no to the current autopilot guy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm praying for an Orton heel turn at Mania. At Mania have Show get taken out at some point, leaving Orton and Sheamus together and right as it looks lie Sheamus might get that brogue kick in on a member of the shield, Orton RKOs's Sheamus.

That would be a win-win-win for me. Shield wins, Sheamus gets pinned 1-2-3, and Orton turns heel. The last thing is the biggest win for me. I'm not even 100% sure Orton turning heel will get him back to being great, but it certainly gives me a lot more hope than if he continues in the current direction he's going.

Oh, and his clotheslines are awful. Hopefully that's the first thing he gets rid of when he turns heel. Oh, and that lou thesz press to... though I don't think he's done that in a while. Haven't really paid all that much attention to his matches.

Favorite Orton move, besides the RKO, would probably be that DDT he does with his opponent's legs on the rope. No idea what it's called.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Spike DDT. Or Hangman's DDT. Sometimes the THQ games are pretty useful for name of moves you have none for. Prime example being the knee to the gut (Kitchen Sink).



HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, that's remained an Orton staple. His longest standing move iirc.


He's had it since he debuted in 2002, so yeah, that has to be his oldest move that he still uses. (along with the Dropkick!) After that would have to be the RKO.



Oliver-94 said:


> On the topic of Orton, how awesome was he in SD! yesterday? Playing the peacemaker rton2


Speaking of which, am I the only one who notices a change in his tone when speaking now? A year or two ago he sounded so robotic and slow when speaking, now it feels like he's bringing back some personality into his promos.

Also the peacemaker thing is totally teasing a heel turn.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Orton's coolest move is totally that straight drop where he goes from holding his opponent on one shoulder straight down to a neckbreaker. So fucking swift. I used to be the guy's biggest fan...


The gutwrench/hangman's neckbreaker!? Hell yeah! I thought he was going to bring this move back permanently once he used it a couple of times against Christian during their 2011 feud. Not to be though. :sad:


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*Royal Rumble 2001 - Ladder match for the WWF Intercontinental Championship: Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho*

This still holds up as one of the all time CLASSICS and the greatest ladder match in WWF/E history "FUCK" Shawn/Razor and those TLC matches, Some of the best innovative offense you`ll ever see with the ladder mixed with the best bumping in my opinion. Just straight balls-to-the-wall action and from bell to bell and I know people shit on the ending cause both guys are overselling but C'MON they beat the shit out of each other with every moves being more violent than the last nothing wrong with selling huge bumps and exhaustion. ****3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> I'm still a fan, but no to the current autopilot guy.


(Y) Same. 

If someone were to ask, hey what's your favorite moment in wrestling history? My response would be, "when Orton won the World Title from Benoit at Summerslam '04"

EEVOLUTION IS A MYSTERYYYY!!!!

rton


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Can Orton please just turn heel again? I dont like Orton as a face. Kind of bores me actually. The legend killer was amazing. I haaaaaated him in 2004 when he was mean to Foley. How can you be mean to Foley?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I noticed Orton definitely seemed more lively on SD, and he and Show did great in their promo. I lol'd when he was nodding next to Sheamus mouthing something in approval for Show joining their team where Sheamus' look was all "fuck no."


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heel turn won't make things better. 

why do I have to keep saying this?


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Orton needs Christian.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

It might.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> He's had it since he debuted in 2002, so yeah, that has to be his oldest move that he still uses. (along with the Dropkick!) After that would have to be the RKO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yup, I noticed that too. It's amazing that this is his first relevant feud since 2011 and he is starting to show some personality. 

I could see a heel turn too, Big Show turning heel (again) is too obvious and I can't see all three men working together successfully to beat the Shield. Something big is going to happen :mark:

My favourite Orton move beside the RKO is the scoop slam


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Heel turn won't make things better.
> 
> why do I have to keep saying this?


And how do you know that? I know you love hating on the current Orton but why shit on something that hasn't even happened yet?

Orton himself has requested a heel turn, so surely he would be more inspired to put in work when it happens compared to the past few months where he's been completely directionless and not really given a reason to give it his all?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As I said, while a heel turn may not make things better, it's certainly better than them keeping him as the face he is.

He can go from being the number 3-4 face in the company to the number 2 heel in the company just like that, right behind our straightedge savior, our best in the world and our GAWD, CM Punk!

And all that about Punk is true. You can ask him or Choke2death and they'll tell ya.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Orton needs Christian.


(Y)

Orton wouldn't have heels like Henry or Shield topped. Not at all.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I just want the element of surprised to return to WWE programming. Storylines, characters, etc, anything that will chain to me the TV during the entire show. After last Monday, I don't know if I want to continue supporting the company. Rome wasn't built in a day, but a complete reboot needs to take place within the next few months.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Orton wouldn't have heels like Henry or Shield topped. Not at all.


Wasn't really thinking too much on The Shield since it's together as a group they're so dominant and they're kind of in their own spot away from individual heels. 

As far as Henry, all depends on how they book him. If he's gonna lose to Ryback at Mania, Orton will easily top him (not entertainment-wise necessarily, but relevance-wise).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> And how do you know that? I know you love hating on the current Orton but why shit on something that hasn't even happened yet?
> 
> Orton himself has requested a heel turn, so surely he would be more inspired to put in work when it happens compared to the past few months where he's been completely directionless and not really given a reason to give it his all?


And how do you know he'll be successful if he goes heel? Exactly.

It isn't a form of hate. It's only b/c of how lifeless the man is. He isn't going to have an alignment chance and instantly become fresh again. Or his work isn't going to jump up a notch. Here I thought Del Rio would receive better booking once he became a face. Wrong. Couldn't be further from the truth. Company still poorly books the man into being the blandest main eventer around from a character standpoint.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Del Rio is the blandest main eventer ever... not just because WWE books him like that. The man has nothing to him to make him interesting.

Well if you ask me anyway <_<

Of course 99% of faces are booked that way today in WWE, so it's not just a Del Rio thing.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Never been impressed with Albert of the River.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll gladly take Del Rio over Orton. Del Rio can still make me interested from bell to bell.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> And all that about Punk is true. You can ask him or Choke2death and they'll tell ya.


What I can tell ya is the news about Punk taking time off after Undertaker kills him is just :mark: :mark:. Fingers crossed that now he fucks off for a couple of months, they turn Orton heel and he does so well that overtakes the top heel spot and earns his way back to #2 guy.



> And how do you know he'll be successful if he goes heel? Exactly.
> 
> It isn't a form of hate. It's only b/c of how lifeless the man is. He isn't going to have an alignment chance and instantly become fresh again. Or his work isn't going to jump up a notch. Here I thought Del Rio would receive better booking once he became a face. Wrong. Couldn't be further from the truth. Company still poorly books the man into being the blandest main eventer around from a character standpoint.


I don't know but don't you think it'd be better giving it a try instead of keeping him the same where he's doing absolutely nothing noteworthy?

And with Del Rio, he's just bland and that's all there is to it. I have enjoyed a few segments involving him doing some funny stuff to Big Show such as the Nickelodeon-style orange paint segment but it didn't take long before I went back to giving zero fucks about him even though I enjoy his expanded lucha style wrestling more. We know Orton is capable of better and his finest work has been as a heel, so why are you so pessimistic about a turn?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> What I can tell ya is the news about Punk taking time off after Undertaker kills him is just :mark: :mark:. Fingers crossed that now he fucks off for a couple of months, they turn Orton heel and he does so well that overtakes the top heel spot and earns his way back to #2 guy.


 2013 has been an improvement for you, eh? Punk gets beaten twice by the ROCK then by Juan Cheena, soon by the Undertaker and he is possibly taken time off after WM. :rock4

Oh and Del Rio is a cure for insomnia...


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

"Show me your papers!" :adr

The only thing I was entertained by.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> 2013 has been an improvement for you, eh? Punk gets beaten twice by the ROCK then by Juan Cheena, soon by the Undertaker and he is possibly taken time off after WM. :rock4


Yep. Unfortunately, 3 hours is still as painful as can be which makes me unable to truly enjoy the shows like I should've. And this boring RTWM has not helped anything.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Speaking of Orton and Christian, their great matches from their feud:

First match from Smackdown:






Over The Limit:






Money in the Bank:

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relev...n+money+in+the+bank+full+match/1#video=xl5ebv

Summerslam:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk...ull-match-hd_sport?search_algo=2#.UU5mKxfxqCk

Steel cage match from Smackdown (their last match)
Part 1:




Part 2:





Only one I can't find is their Capitol Punishment match.  

Their program summarized = horrible feud, consistently great matches.

I need to give Orton/Christian from Summerslam a re-watch, so I'll check out that match tomorrow, but now I need to sleep.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton's 1,000 times more interesting than Del Rio for me, and I'm talking current Orton. Del Rio is awful outside of his in-ring work, which still doesn't make up for the rest of his shit and the facts he's incredibly boring and worst of all, forced. I mean I've been starting to appreciate Sheamus a bit more ever since he exited the world title scene, and I'm wondering if it's because I just don't like seeing him as champion, or if it's because Del Rio makes me miss Sheamus' days as World Champion. 

Cesaro though is my favorite as far as the "pure in-ring workers" (for lack of a better term) go. Can't stand him talking, and his character hasn't been that interesting in months (mainly due to booking) but he can draw me into a match like no other man in the company right now, which is all the more impressive imo. 

That being said, I'm not in any rush to see him getting a World Title as opposed to someone like Sandow, who has a great character, is top-notch on the mic, great personality, full of life and he can wrestle very well (maybe not on the level of the guys above, but still...). The sooner Sandow gets the title or at the very least in the title hunt, be it for the World Title or WWE Title, is the day I can truly get into a program that doesn't involve Punk or a part-timer.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

del rio is boring. i was one of few who liked his LMS match with show though


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Speaking of Orton and Christian, their great matches from their feud:
> 
> Only one I can't find is their Capitol Punishment match.
> 
> ...


I need to relive their series.

That said, their 2005 match also deserves some recognition as it was very good too.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5yny6_randy-orton-vs-christian-raw-2-14-2_sport#.UU5q3bX3CKI


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/Christian: 

Raw 2005- ***3/4
SD May 2011- ***3/4
OTL- ****1/4 (#50 match of all time on my list)
CP- ***
MITB- ***1/2
SS- ****
SD Cage- ***1/2


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> why do I have to keep saying this?


You don't have to. Why do you have to? You can quit at any time. :agree:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Watched Orton/Guerrero from November 14th '05 

I believe this was the first and only meeting of these two? 

God, i do miss these days when Orton seemed like he actually cared about a match. Guerrero was the old school veteran and Orton was the young, cocky upstart and it worked perfectly. The screwy finish sucked to be honest but was a necessity of sorts to keep both strong. One thing that did piss me off a little bit was the amaount of time Orton had the headlocks locked in for, seemed like an eternity. 

It's shame these two never had another meeting in the ring.

***3/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's stop the weekly Orton discussion PLZ.

We have JOHN CENA to talk about anyways. Just watched the very first encounter between Cena and Punk and I have to tell you that I'm extremely impressed and plan on watching as many singles matches as possible from them until a pass out and go to sleep, as I dig their chemistry more than I dig most. As a matter of fact, personally I'd put the chemistry between Punk and Cena in my WWF/WWE top 5 in ring chemistries ever, they're THAT good... and I still have a whole host of JOHN BOY vs PUNK matches to watch, holy fucking shit.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> As a matter of fact, personally I'd put the chemistry between Punk and Cena in my WWF/WWE top 5 in ring chemistries ever, they're THAT good.


I might agree with that. I'd love to see A. an iron man match between those two and B. either a unification match with two or those two headlining Mania 30 or 31


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

JOHN/PHIL have legit amazing chemistry. No doubt.

WHAT. THE. FUCK. 
Watching Smackdown 2002 and Jericho's limo driver just RAN OVER TRIPLE H'S DOG. Trips is lying on the floor shouting for his dog Lucy to hold on :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Watched Orton/Guerrero from November 14th '05
> 
> I believe this was the first and only meeting of these two?
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's their only singles match. They also had two tag matches around the same period, though. I can only imagine what a classic they would've put on in a PPV. Fuck, why did Eddie have to go so soon? He still had so much to give and live for. :sad:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> WHAT. THE. FUCK.
> Watching Smackdown 2002 and Jericho's limo driver just RAN OVER TRIPLE H'S DOG. Trips is lying on the floor shouting for his dog Lucy to hold on :lmao



I remember that. :lol

Shame they made Jericho pick up that dog's crap though. :no:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Came back to My Journey with HBK talking about his program with Hogan and how it basically turned into Shawn doing his thing and Hogan saying it was fine to his face but then going on TV shows and ripping Shawn. Whether or not it was Hogan being Hogan or actually selling the feud, who knows.

That Larry King skit is among HBK's best heel work.

This promo in Montreal on Raw in July of 2005 is gold, though. That pop when Bret's music hit the first time was insane, then Hogan's music hits and its an even bigger pop. HBTroll at his best.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs CM Punk (RAW 11/23/09) : **** 1/4*
John Cena vs CM Punk (RAW 12/14/09) : *N/A*

The first JAWN-FEEEEL match was an awesome TV contest that scratched the surface of how great the two could be together, no doubt about that. Hell, the fact that Punk escaped the STFU tells you everything you need to know about it ; he looked stronger than ever coming out of it because a SUPER CENA SUPER AA was needed to put Punk down, just another great television match in the uber consistent years of 2009 and 2010.

FUCK that Slammy Awards match man. That match is less than 3 minutes long and Punk gets squashed, it's essentially Bryan-Sheamus in the sense that we know they have MAD chemistry now but they never got a chance to properly show it due to the fuckery of the booking.

WATCHING THE "Power to the People" match between them now :mark:.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Came back to My Journey with HBK talking about his program with Hogan and how it basically turned into Shawn doing his thing and Hogan saying it was fine to his face but then going on TV shows and ripping Shawn. Whether or not it was Hogan being Hogan or actually selling the feud, who knows.
> 
> That Larry King skit is among HBK's best heel work.
> 
> This promo in Montreal on Raw in July of 2005 is gold, though. That pop when Bret's music hit the first time was insane, then Hogan's music hits and its an even bigger pop. HBTroll at his best.


HBK in the Hogan feud was absolutely awesome. The Larry King skit, the Montreal promo and how he acted in their match... VINTAGE HBK!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs CM Punk (7/7/10) : ****

This is the infamous "NEXUS DEBUT" match, so Cena and Punk are really just going through the motions here, but even though they're only going through the motions in a little five minute match they still manage to make things as entertaining as possible in such a short window of time, these two continue to amaze me. Everybody should see this for what comes afterwards, but what proceeds the big angle was a solid little match as well... Enough with the pointless shit, time to move on to the BIG GUNS in 2011, shall we?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Damn I hate it when I can't sleep. :side:



Choke2Death said:


> I need to relive their series.
> 
> That said, their 2005 match also deserves some recognition as it was very good too.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5yny6_randy-orton-vs-christian-raw-2-14-2_sport#.UU5q3bX3CKI


Very good indeed, watched it a few times since it aired, but I was just talking about their 2011 feud in my post. But damn, ''Captain Charisma'' Christian vs ''Legend Killer'' Orton - two of my most favorite wrestlers at the time.  If they had a feud back then it would been GREAT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Christian vs Randy Orton (No Holds Barred) - SummerSlam 2011*
- Starts off with Edge giving Christian a reality check of sorts by telling him about how much of a coward he's become. And the match... wow, it's still as good as I remember it being. Very good work showing their usual chemistry as they start off more mat based and then start smartly introducing weapons into the battle plus some incredible spots such as the RKO through the table that finally gave away and the DDT onto the trashcan. That said, I have a little bit of criticism and that's the fact it pretty much turns into a squash for Orton when Christian spits on him and misses the con-chair-to. Extra props goes to Christian for taking all the big bumps here. And to add to the negatives, the finish was pretty dumb and made no sense whatsoever. Still an awesome match and almost on par with Over the Limit. On a rewatch, this was far better than the main event on the same show that was a dull, lifeless rehash of MITB. Watching this makes me seriously miss Christian as I could always trust him to put on great TV matches weekly. ★★★★½


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know, I was just watching these matches and I thought of a legitimate question ; when exactly did Cena go from being the top guy in the WWE to being "THE FRANCHISE" ; as in if Cena left WWE it would probably crumble and fall apart. Well, I finally found an answer, and the date that Cena went from being the face of the franchise to THE FRANCHISE was WRESTLEMANIA XXVI.

Think about it for a second. Cena goes over Batista, his RA Era counterpart to become the WWE Champion, as well as HBK retiring and Taker/HHH dropping from full time status permanently apart from one random stint each. Let's just look at the PPV main event statistics to tell the story shall we?

WM XXIII - WM XXVI : Cena wrestled at 32 PPVS (Excluding Rumbles), main eventing a mere THIRTEEN of these PPV events (hard to believe I know). That's a 40 percent main event ratio, as in 60 percent of the time somebody else OTHER than Cena was main eventing.

WM XXVI - XM XXIX : Cena wrestled at 35 PPVs, main eventing a staggering THIRTY FUCKING TWO OF THEM. That's 92 percent of shows being sold on JOHN CENA and very little else at times. He's the franchise, and the reason that the WHC has gone down so far in the ranks may have to do with the fact that it'll never main event unless Cena is competing for it something that's not happening any time soon as he is THE GUY. The only matches (non RUMBLE of course) that main evented over Cena since Mania XXVI ; Taker-Kane HIAC 2010, Punk-HHH NOC 11, HHH-Lesnar SS 12. That's fucking IT, and this kind of dependability is another reason why Cena should be considered as perhaps the greatest face of the company that it has ever had.

Hell, I don't even want to see him turn heel at this point. He's THE FRANCHISE, and there's nobody in the company at the moment who can take the reigns as that number one face. The closest they ever came to that was Punk and they royally shafted him due to Rock-Cena being booked one year in advance.

:cena3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Interesting what would have happened at TLC 2012 if Punk hadn't gotten hurt? I guess Cena's injury before HIAC started the mess. 

Ryback gets thrown in to HIAC, then Punk/Ryback/Cena at Survior Series. That also begs the question: If Ryback hadn't been thrust into the main event would we have even gotten the triple threat, or would we have gotten the Shield debut during that match? In my mind, that ended up working as well as it could have.

Then, what would Punk have done at TLC? Would he have faced Cena, leaving Dolph to do something else? For some reason, those few months of TV have blurred together in my mind, and it's hard to remember what they had started. 

If Cena/Dolph had main evented over Punk/whomever for the Title, holy shit.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Triple H vs The Rock Ladder Match for the IC Championship SummerSlam (1998) ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's all irrelevant anyways due to WWE and their long term fucking scheduling with The Roid, but that's a rant for an entirely different day, these next two weeks are going to be focused on getting ready to usher in a completely new era ; the 2013 JOHN CENA ERA.

Gonna throw up some Punk/Cena TV STARZ Pre - MITB once I'm done watching this All Star RAW match up that I've never seen.

:cena3


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Well I found In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks ppv, however I was only interested in HBK/Jarrett.

If anyone's interested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJY6Scvozl4


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I can predict that this year Punk/Cena will deliver another ****1/2+ match, with the WWE title on the line


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was actually a fan of LOL NASH VS SID from that one. Pretty sure I gave it two stars or some shit like that back in the day, who knows.

Here's a game (not gonna chime in yet, wanna hear reactions first) that should make things fairly interesting ; Rank all the faces of the WWE from Backlund - Cena in terms of in ring work. This means ranking the following names ;

Bob Backlund
Hulk Hogan
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
The Rock
Brock Lesnar
John Cena

Should be interesting to see where everyone stacks up.

EDIT : Punk/Cena ALWAYS delivers no doubt. They've got a ton of places they can go as they've never had a single gimmick match before. This includes the following gimmicks : No Holds Barred/Extreme Rules/Etc, Last Man Standing, Hell in a Cell, I Quit, Steel Cage, Ladder, TLC, and my personal choice for a Punk/Cena match as I think it would have five star potential (I only have 10 matches at five stars so that's saying ALOT), an IRON MAN MATCH.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Hogan above Austin? :kobe2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, I listed them in the order they were the face of the company, BROTHER.

:hogan


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Punk/Cena needs to stay away from I Quit. Especially after the last two I Quit matches Cena was in. Well, the last three. Anything else is fine. 

Has a face legit ever said "I Quit"? 

And I can't judge Backlund's ring work because I haven't seen it but: 

Bret
Shawn
Lesnar
Austin
Rock
Cena
Hogan

Put Backlund where you want. And shit, Cena/Rock are interchangeable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
Bob Backlund (need to watch more of him though. Recs pelase.)
Brock Lesnar
John Cena
The Rock
Hulk Hogan


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HBK
Hart
Brock
Austin
Cena
Rock
Hogan

Also can't really rate Backlund, haven't seen enough


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Admittingly haven't seen much backlund work to judge, but from my perspective it goes: 

Shawn Michaels 
Bret Hart
Brock Lesnar 
Steve Austin
John Cena 
The Rock
Hulk Hogan

To the question above Yer Rey Mysterio said I Quit to Chavo of all people.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sadly haven't seen enough Backlund.

Shawn Michaels
Bret Hart
John Cena
Steve Austin
Brock Lesnar
The Rock
Hulk Hogan

imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Interesting reactions so far, especially the placement of CENA (which is always controversial, let's face it).

Watched every single Punk-Cena TV match today besides the recent RAW one and I have to say ; GOD DAMN are they ever consistent in the ring. I mean, okay... Not going to post the STARZ until tomorrow when I'm done watching the recent match (the best of the bunch by far IIRC), but as of right now here's how I have the first 10 rated ;

- 1 @ N/A
- 3 @ ** - ** 3/4
- 3 @ *** - *** 1/4
- 2 @ *** 1/2 - *** 3/4
- 1 @ ****+

Pretty sure everybody would be able to guess the top three if you've seen them before. I've watched all the PPV matches recently so I'm going to rank the entire series tomorrow for the fuck of it, just as a reminder to everybody telling them what we COULD have been seeing in a Mania main event if the part timers weren't around.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really enjoy Cena's ring work when they book him in actual matches. I think people dwell too much on some of the matches he's had that don't really make much sense or were booked to tell a poor story. Good examples of this are Cena/Miz from WM and OTL and then Cena/Truth. The latter was just a seemingly random match. Didn't really go anywhere, so it was plain. But when you give Cena a legit storyline, he can usually make a great match out of it. Can't say I love his character but I truly enjoy his ring work.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

"You must spread around some reputation before giving it to Pierre McDunk again" ........

:cena3


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Which is the best PPV of all time? For me it's definetly WM X-Seven.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ever Wolf said:


> JOHN/PHIL have legit amazing chemistry. No doubt.
> 
> WHAT. THE. FUCK.
> Watching Smackdown 2002 and Jericho's limo driver just RAN OVER TRIPLE H'S DOG. Trips is lying on the floor shouting for his dog Lucy to hold on :lmao


Welcome to the Road to WrestleMania - 2002.



KingOfKings said:


> Here's a game (not gonna chime in yet, wanna hear reactions first) that should make things fairly interesting ; Rank all the faces of the WWE from Backlund - Cena in terms of in ring work. This means ranking the following names ;
> 
> Bob Backlund
> Hulk Hogan
> ...


1. Austin
2. Backlund
3. Hart
4. Michaels
5. Cena
6. Lesnar
7. The Rock
8. Hogan

I watched some 2001 Austin recently which blew me away (even after being a HUUUUGE fan), so maybe I'm counting that into putting him over Backlund, but, yeah, it's kinda close for me. I also kinda hesitated putting Lesnar over the Rock, but I'd say the only thing Rocky has on Brocky is more time in the graps, and Lesnar's career isn't really *that* effected by someone else being around longer if I'm comparing him to someone else (especially someone like the Rock who has less than ten years himself and was on and off after 2000 to begin with). Regardless, I think that's pretty close as well. The rest were easy.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

John Cena vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Masters (for the WWE Championship) - Triple Threat No Disqualification Submission Match - RAW 11/28/2005?

Seems like an interesting match with a very interesting stipulation. Anyone watch this match, Could possibly give the thoughts on it?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Which is the best PPV of all time? For me it's definetly WM X-Seven.


I'll give you some of the greatest NOT named WM 17 (which is the obvious foregone conclusion ):

- WM 19: Rock/Austin, Angle/Lesnar, Trips/Booker, HBK/Jericho, Vince/Hogan, Victoria/Trish/Jazz, Matt/Rey... what a loaded card. If you don't count the Catfight mess as one (and even that has its positives - STACY KEIBLER), not a single bad match on this card.

- SummerSlam 2002: My runner-up for the GOAT WWE PPV of all time (behind WM 17). The atmosphere was plain phenomenal, the booking was superb, and the wrestling portion gave you HBK/Trips, Rey/Angle, Benoit/RVD, Eddie/Edge, Rock/Lesnar, Taker/Test, etc. Near perfect show.

- Survivor Series 2002: This didn't follow the tradition of having the SS Traditional matches, but to make up for that, we had three elimination type matches anyway. The whole card delievered in spades. Add that to all titles being changed, terrific atmosphere and a great moment in Steiner's return, and you got yourself a hell of a show.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think Cena genuinely likes working with Punk and you can see it too. Look at John boy's promos when he's working with Punk, then look at them when he's working with someone else. Hell, not even The Rock can bring about the serious side in Cena. The NOC build promo and the one on RAW earlier this year were just epic. If only Cena was this damn consistent. Then again, booking doesn't allow him to be consistent. Then again, tbh, I can understand why creative would book the typical Super Cena comeback in a match like Darren Young vs Cena. It's booking 101. Why would they do it for the main event of Wrestlemaia? Well, to that, I have no freaking clue.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

In addition to the ones that have been named, I'm pretty confident in saying *Extreme Rules 2012 *is one of the all time greats. 3 matches at ****+ and also a very good opener in Orton/Kane. Everything that was filler was entertaining enough as well. Really fantastic show all around.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> John Cena vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Masters (for the WWE Championship) - Triple Threat No Disqualification Submission Match - RAW 11/28/2005?
> 
> Seems like an interesting match with a very interesting stipulation. Anyone watch this match, Could possibly give the thoughts on it?







Short, but fun. It makes you think how Cena can win with Angle and Masters both have submission finishers, but Cena pulls it out by debuting the STF in this match to get the win!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Extreme Rules is definitely a 5 star PPV/All time GOAT. I've been pimping it out since the day after the PPV lol. The PG Era has given us two classic PPVs in MITB 2011 and ER 2012.

It's weird how the build for Wrestlemania feels like a throw away PPV while the throw away PPVs have Wrestlemania builds.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Been watching the John Cena Experience. Docs still shitty. Good matches though

Cena V Angle NWO 2005 ***3/4

Cena V Angle V HBK TT 2005 ***3/4

Cena v Edge TTTT (lolwut) 2006 ***1/4

Cena V Bobby Lashley TGAM 2007 ***1/2

Cena V Orton SS 2007 ****

Cena V HHH NOC 2008 ****1/4

Cena v HBK Raw 2009 ***


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> Short, but fun. It makes you think how Cena win with Angle and Masters both have submission finishers, but Cena pulls it out by debuting the STF in this match to get the win!


Another great example of why 2005 was such a strong year booking wise. Booking was top notch 2005 imo. What a great way to debut a submission finisher. Much better than randomly doing it out of nowhere in a match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Think you've got that Orton/Cena SS07 match about 2 stars over what I had it, TCM. Been 4 years though since my last view. Agree with the Lashley/Cena rating, great big man match. Think I had NoC08 at around ***3/4. Was a fantastic match when I saw it on PPV. Can't remember their other matches, espcially HBK/Cena. Weird. Was that match in November 2009, in build up to Survivor Series?

Just watched Magnum T.A vs Nikita Koloff, their 6th match in their best of 7 series. Their best bout to date, imo. I really enjoyed it, its borderline great. But Nikita slightly killed it off when he just shrugged off the damage inflicted to his arm, and was throwing submissions like the 'Cobra headlock' out with no problems. Good bout, entertaining, what a crowd. ***. Date for it is 08/16/86 Worldwide Wrestling. Probably actually wrestled a few days beforehand. In a completely different set to the matches that occured before. Pity for Magnum he had that car crash a few months later, was fully prepared for a series with Flair.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I have Cena/Lashley at 4 freaking stars. Awesome big man match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Top faces in terms of ring work:

1. Michaels
2. Austin
3. Bret Hart
4. Cena/ROCK - this is really tough as both are extremely close. I think ROCK is a better in-ring performer but when it comes to match quality, Cena has better matches than the ROCK.
5. Lesnar
6. Hogan

Backlund isn't in my list because I have never seen his work so can't really judge.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My personal list of the best technical wrestlers WWE has ever had.

1. Chris Benoit
2. Bret Hart
3. The Dynamite Kid
4. Owen Hart
5. Bob Backlund
6. Kurt Angle (Pre 2006)
7. William Regal
8. Dean Malenko
9. Eddie Guerrero 
10. Mr. Perfect


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alright, WHC project return. Ratings for the next few matches:

Batista/HHH Backlash
Batista/Edge '05
Batista/Christian '05
Batista/HHH HIAC
Batista/Taker SD '05
Batista/JBL NHB
Batista/Eddie No Mercy

BATISTA.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Triple H vs The Rock Ladder Match for the IC Championship SummerSlam (1998) ****1/2



Stole the effin show that night. Which saying a lot with Austin/Taker as the main event. I love that match. I remember this well....I ordered that ppv in HS and after the ladder match I turned to my buddies and said those two would be the two biggest stars of the next decade. 

It's so weird looking back that we never got Rock V HHH at Mania or Austin V HHH or a triple threat with those 3. Im not sure this will happen but a HHH heel turn and a match with Rock next WM would be badass.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ATF said:


> Alright, WHC project return. Ratings for the next few matches:
> 
> Batista/HHH Backlash
> Batista/Edge '05
> ...


They had a match in 2005?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I wouldnt call myself a Backlund expert per se but I have seen a lot of Backlund. A 3 disc Backlund DVD set by WWE should happen in 2014. I'd totally buy that. Anyway here is my rank of major faces as far as ring work....

1. Bret Hart
2. Savage
3. HBK
4. Austin
5. Backlund
6. Punk
7. Brock
8. Rock
9. Cena
10. Hogan


Does Eddie count as a top face? I'd say so in 2004. If so I'd put him 4th and move everyone else down. So Hogan wouldnt even make the top 10.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Alright, WHC project return. Ratings for the next few matches:
> 
> Batista/HHH Backlash
> Batista/Edge '05
> ...


Backlash - ★★★¼
Batista/Edge - ★★½
Batista/Christian - ★★★
HIAC - ★★★★¾
Batista/Taker - Match never happened because JBL took Taker's title shot from TGAB
Batista/JBL (GAB) - 0
Batista/JBL NHB - ★★¾
Batista/JBL (Texas Bullrope) - ★★
Batista/Eddie - ★★★½

There's all the matches that happened except the Taker one.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anybody know any good TV matches with Taker? I have already watched Taker/Angle 2003/2006 and Taker/Cena 2003/2004.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Anybody know any good TV matches with Taker? I have already watched Taker/Angle 2003/2006 and Taker/Cena 2003/2004.


Two matches with JBL in 2005, match with Orton from 16/9/05, steel cage with Batista in 07, triple threat with Lesnar & Show in 03, ladder match with Jeff Hardy just to name a few. You're better off asking CAL.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Anybody know any good TV matches with Taker? I have already watched Taker/Angle 2003/2006 and Taker/Cena 2003/2004.


The Undertaker Vs. Jeff Hardy World Title Ladder Match was the first one that came to mind. "Climb that ladder kid, make yourself famous!"

*EDIT:* ...and Choke2Death beat me to it. Baby back bitch. :cuss:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

*WRESTLEMANIA XIII*

The New Blackjacks vs. The Godwinns vs. The Headbangers vs. Doug Furnas and Philip La Fon - *1/2
*Intercontinental Championship* - Rocky Miavia (c) vs, The Sultan - **
Goldust vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - **1/4
*Tag Team Championship* - Owen Hart and British Bulldog vs. Mankind and Vader - **
*Submission Match* - Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - *****
*Chicago Street Fight* - Ahmed Johnson and Legion Of Doom vs. Faarooq, Savio Vega and Crush - *3/4
*WWF Championship* - Psycho Sid (c) vs. The Undertaker - **1/4

Overall: 4/10


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Juvie/Kash (Armageddon 200?) ***1/4
- Edge/Cena (Unforgiven 2006) *1/4


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I found out. So I'm a huge dork and sometimes I make guesses/wishes on wat I'd like to see on DVD/Blu Ray comps. I think a 3 disc Backlund set would be badass. Here is the match listing I made a fe months ago. Looks decent to me but Im sure Im missing some gems. Ive seen all of these but the match with HBK. 

Bob Backlund vs. Superstar Billy Graham (MSG 2-20-1978)
Bob Backlund vs. Hulk Hogan (Philly 4/12/80) 
Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera (MSG 5/19/80) 
Bob Backlund vs. Sgt Slaughter (Philly 3/21/81) 
Bob Backlund vs. Don Muraco (Texas Death Match) (MSG 9/21/81) 
Bob Backlund vs. Adrian Adonis (MSG 1/18/82) 
Bob Backlund vs. Sgt. Slaughter (MSG 5/23/83) I'm pretty sure this is the famous awesome boot camp match? 
Bob Backlund vs. The Iron Sheik (Philly 11/24/83) 
Bob Backlund vs. Iron Sheik (MSG 12/26/83) 
Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (MSG 4/23/84) 
Bob Backlund vs. Shawn Michaels (San Antonio 1/5/93) 
Bob Backlund vs. Bret Hart Survivor Series 1994


Blu Ray exclusives....

Bob Backlund vs. Pat Patterson (MSG 7/30/79) 

Bob Backlund vs. Buddy Rose (MSG 8/30/82) 

Bob Backlund Vs. Bret Hart Wrestlemania 11


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Anybody know any good TV matches with Taker? I have already watched Taker/Angle 2003/2006 and Taker/Cena 2003/2004.


The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio Smackdown 2010
The Undertaker vs Batista in a NO DQ match Smackdown 2008
The Undertaker vs The Big Show in a Steel Cage match Smackdown 2008
The Undertaker vs CM Punk Smackdown 2009
The Undertaker vs Jack Swagger RAW 2010

That's all I have for now. I'll think of some more later. 



Coffey said:


> The Undertaker Vs. Jeff Hardy World Title Ladder Match was the first one that came to mind. "Climb that ladder kid, make yourself famous!"


Loved that match. Had me on the edge of my seat the whole time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Credit to *Clique*:

*Taker vs - *

JBL (No DQ) 6/16/2005

JBL 7/28/2005

Randy Orton 9/16/2005

Kurt Angle 3/3/2006

Great Khali (Last Man Standing) 8/18/2006

w/Kane vs. MVP/Kennedy 11/3/2006

w/Kane vs. King Booker/Finlay 12/22/2006

w/Batista vs. Rated RKO 2/16/2007

Finlay 3/9/2007

Batista (Cage Match) 5/11/2007

Mark Henry 9/28/2007

Kane 4/4/2008

Festus 4/11/2008

Batista 4/18/2008

Batista (No DQ) 4/25/2008

Triple H 10/24/2008

Big Show (Cage Match) 11/28/2008


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ABOUT TO WATCH CENA - PUNK FROM EARLIER THIS YEAR :mark:

First I gotta throw out my "Face of the company" rankings "

Bret Hart
Steve Austin
Bob Backlund
John Cena
Shawn Michaels
Brock Lesnar
The Rock
Hulk Hogan

- Yes, I have John Cena above Shawn Michaels, shoot me.

- If BROCK was around longer he may be top 3 for me.

- The drop off between BROCK and Rock for me is amazing.

- Austin's 2001 pretty much makes him a slam dunk for top two, I'm just a huge fan of Bret's work.

Here's an interesting one ; rank the following when they've actually HAD the belt in terms of work (ranked here by most days held to least days held) ;

Hulk Hogan
John Cena
Bret Hart
Triple H
Steve Austin
Randy Savage
CM Punk
Randy Orton
Shawn Michaels
Diesel

Now THAT's more interesting .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just in-ring work:

HBK
Bret
Backlund
Austin
Cena
Rock
Hogan


Lesnar

I don't feel Lesnar has been around for along enough period of time to be on the same level as those other guys, tbh. Also not a fan of his MMA style of work in this run.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't know but don't you think it'd be better giving it a try instead of keeping him the same where he's doing absolutely nothing noteworthy?
> 
> And with Del Rio, he's just bland and that's all there is to it. I have enjoyed a few segments involving him doing some funny stuff to Big Show such as the Nickelodeon-style orange paint segment but it didn't take long before I went back to giving zero fucks about him even though I enjoy his expanded lucha style wrestling more. We know Orton is capable of better and his finest work has been as a heel, so why are you so pessimistic about a turn?


Lets not confuse pessimism with going by facts and personal lack of interest.

------

Few more Undertaker TV Matches:

vs Finlay ~ 3/9/07
vs Kane ~ 4/4/08
vs Festus ~ 4/11/08
vs Shelton Benjamin ~ 1/9/09, 1/23/09, & 4/17/09
vs Big Show ~ 4/24/09


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*In ring work when held the title:*

Steve Austin
John Cena
Bret Hart
CM Punk
Triple H
Randy Savage
Shawn Michaels
Randy Orton
Hulk Hogan
Diesel

This was really hard, and I'm still not completely happy with it. Austin was going to be up there for being consistent all round, but he gets top spot for his brilliant 2001 run. Cena has held the belt a lot and put on a lot of good matches during those times so I've got him second, though I feel a bit dirty having him above Hart. 

I really wanted Trips to be higher but some of his great matches have come when he hasn't held the strap. Punk gets in high because of his latest reign being solid, plus a few good matches back when he held the WHC. I wasn't sure where to put Savage really so he's stuck in the middle.

HBK being that low is almost sickening, but he obviously hasn't held the belt since 2002 so all his work since then is out of the question. Obviously some awesome stuff in the late 90s but, hell I don't know I'm already thinking of changing the list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Hulk Hogan
> John Cena
> Bret Hart
> Triple H
> ...


Will leave Hart, Diesel, Hogan, Savage and HBK out of it since I don't know a damn thing about their title runs. (and I wont count HBK's final run as it was barely a month)

Steve Austin (the 2001 run specially)
John Cena
Randy Orton
Triple H
CM Punk



HayleySabin said:


> Lets not confuse pessimism with going by facts and personal lack of interest.


Whatever, don't think there's anything else that can be added.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Ranking the faces of the company in all five eras (Golden Age, New Generation, Ruthless Aggression, PG).

In terms of ring-work:

1) Michaels
2) Austin
3) Hart
4) Cena
5) Lesnar
6) Rock
7) Hogan

In terms of mic-skills:

1) Austin
2) Rock
3) Cena
4) Hogan
5) Michaels
6) Hart
7) Lesnar

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In-Ring Work with Title

Bret Hart
Triple H
CM Punk
Shawn Michaels
Steve Austin
Randy Savage
John Cena
Randy Orton
Hulk Hogan
Diesel

I feel kind of awful putting Savage, Cena, and Orton so low, but Michaels in 96, Austin in 2001, and Punk this past year were just phenomenal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 14 review in my blog today . Pretty shitty event overall imo. Only one stand out match, then 2 other worth seeing and that's it.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Stone Cold's 2001 run >>>>>>


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Lesnar's 02 and 03 title reigns were beast, Just look at all the great matches he had on PPV:

2002:

vs. Undertaker - Unforgiven 2002 (****)
vs. Undertaker - No Mercy 2002 (****3/4)
vs. Big Show - Survivor Series (***) (a very fun 4 minutes)

2003:

vs. John Cena - Backlash 2003 (***1/2)
vs. Big Show - Judgement Day 2003 (****)
vs. Kurt Angle vs. Big Show - Vengeance 2003 (***3/4)
vs. Undertaker - No Mercy 2003 (***1/2)
vs. Hardcore Holly - Royal Rumble 2004 (**) 
vs. Eddie - No Way Out 2004 (*****)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar did indeed have on hell of a run his first time around. Only thing he's missing imo is a 5 star match. A couple were close for me, but he hasn't quite reached that yet. But then again neither have a lot of guys who I consider to be some of the greatest of all time, so Lesnar not quite getting there for a few years run isn't bad at all .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs CM Punk : The Rivalry​
John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 11/23/09 : **** ¼*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 12/14/09 : *N/A*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 6/7/10 : ****

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 1/17/11 : **** 3/4*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 2/7/11 : *** ¼*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 2/14/11 : *** 1/2*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 6/13/11 : **** ½*

John Cena vs CM Punk Money in the Bank 2011 : *******

John Cena vs CM Punk Summerslam 2011 : ***** 1/2*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 8/22/11 : ******

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 7/23/12 : **** ¼*

John Cena vs CM Punk Night of Champions 2012 : ***** 1/4*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 11/12/12 : **** ¼*

John Cena vs CM Punk RAW 2/25/13 : ***** ½*

*What We've Established*

- *CM Punk is John Cena's best WWE Opponent and Vice Versa :* I don't want to hear any of this "Cena's best opponent is Edge" nonsense that I consistently hear every single time I praise the Punk-Cena feud, as it's a bunch of bullshit. As you can clearly tell by looking at the ratings for each match, Punk and Cena have been incapable of having a match that's less than great if the match goes over 5 minutes (which the two matches that went less than 5 minutes got **). Edge and Cena have had numerous BAD matches (Royal Rumble 2006, various TV matches that were underwhelming), and haven't produced nearly the same amount of classics that Punk-Cena has. I've heard that Bryan is Punk's best opponent too ; a stronger case could be made for that I suppose as they can't have a bad match either, but the CLASSICS factor blows Punk-Bryan out of the water.

- *They're Fucking Incapable of Having a Bad Match :* Seriously, again... LOOK AT THE RATINGZ* and STARZ*! These guys were just made for each other both in the ring and outside of the ring due to being polar opposites ; no matter what Punk does, he'll get close to a 50/50 split, no matter what Cena does he'll get nearly a 50/50 split, Cena was the company guy and Punk came from nothing, both have rather unorthodox styles, etc. It's not just that they have an inability to have a bad match as many pairings are like that, but the sheer percentage of classics they've produced when given time coupled with the fact that they haven't had anything CLOSE to resembling a bad match makes me believe that this is one of the greatest pairings EVER. When we're talking consistent opponents (as in, a pairing who has wrestled at least 10 separate singles matches) I don't even think I'd hesitate to put this number one honestly.

- *They Can Milk This Feud for as Long as They Want :* Remember when Cena/Orton had that big string of gimmick matches back in 2009? Yeah, well their matches were horrendous compared to Cena/Punk, with honestly the best match they've ever had being inferior to at least four different Punk-Cena match ups. Imagine all of the gimmicks you could place on this feud and let's be honest here ; who the fuck else can be convincing enough to beat Cena at this point besides Punk? I'm hoping that they take their time and over the next 2-3 years have little 2-4 month feuds every time, that way we can get the most mileage out of it.

*The Top 5 Punk-Cena Matches*

1. MITB 2011
2. Summerslam 2011
3. RAW 2/25/13
4. NOC 2012
5. RAW 8/22/11

I'd recommend any match in the series to any watcher out there. Actually, the whole series is a must watch IMO.​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Huh, didn't realise they had so many matches before MITB. Would have guessed around 3 rather than 7 lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH BTW *CAL*..... Don't you have Angle-Lesnar @ *******?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> OH BTW *CAL*..... Don't you have Angle-Lesnar @ *******?


I'm tired. Just got home from work. YOU SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> OH BTW *CAL*..... Don't you have Angle-Lesnar @ *******?


He's probably forgotten about it like he always does. Remember "best SummerSlam match" discussion?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Interesting stuff, KOK. I too am surprised they had so many matches before MITB. Didn't seem like they hooked up that much before. The consistency is clear to see though. I'd happily watch a whole, big-ass feud between the two composed of a variety of matches.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Well, His match with Eddie at ***** but most people would disagree with that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just remembered it because there's been four separate occasions where you have forgotten that you have it rated at ******* :lol?

OH, and you have a blog? Since when?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Who did Angle have better chemistry with, Taker or Lesnar?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I found out. So I'm a huge dork and sometimes I make guesses/wishes on wat I'd like to see on DVD/Blu Ray comps. I think a 3 disc Backlund set would be badass. Here is the match listing I made a fe months ago. Looks decent to me but Im sure Im missing some gems. Ive seen all of these but the match with HBK.
> 
> Bob Backlund vs. Superstar Billy Graham (MSG 2-20-1978)
> Bob Backlund vs. Hulk Hogan (Philly 4/12/80)
> ...


I'm so glad I'm not the only one that fantasizes like this with dvd listings. I think a Backlund set would be cool, but honestly I don't think it would sell too well considering how long ago he was the major face of the company.

--------------------------------

AMAZING post, *KOK.* I'm so glad that so many of the Punk/Cena TV matches have made it to DVD/Blu Ray, but the two bouts from August 2011 REALLY need to be released somewhere.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> WM 14 review in my blog today . Pretty shitty event overall imo. Only one stand out match, then 2 other worth seeing and that's it.


Cold Stone :lol Oh Mike...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Taker and Lesnar, I just discovered a house show steel cage match of theirs at MSG. Anyone seen it before?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq...-cage-match-msg-house-show_sport#.UU896LX3CKI


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar - Cage Match - WWE House Show, MSG 20/09/2003*

Buying house shows on DVD is not something I ever really considered, until more and more of them started to emerge on the interwebs, and I saw the main event for this one . I like 'Taker, and I like Brock. I like their matches together. I loved their HIAC match together. So when I saw the opportunity to see a cage match between the two that had never and probably will never air, I jumped at the chance.

Quality is better than I expected, with the only annoying part being the morons filming it, who think everything is boring unless they are ramming each other into the cage and hitting finishing moves...

I digress, so on to the motherfucking match!

Slow start, with 'Taker standing in the middle of the ring, just begging Brock to come get him. Lesnar circles the ring, obviously not wanting to get into a slugfest with 'Taker, even if he is a powerhouse.

They tie up a couple of times, but 'Taker actually gets the better of Lesnar, so Lesnar goes for the more basic approach and attacks the American Bad Ass head on, only to lose that exchange too!

Lesnar takes it to the mat, and the morons filming keep saying "boring", while The Undertaker AGAIN gets the best of the young Brock Lesnar! Lesnar is pissed now, and goes back on the attack, finally gaining the advantage with a massive clothesline!

With 'Taker down for the first time, Lesnar wisely wastes no time trying to escape. It took him a good 5 minutes to even get the ABA down, so he wants to get the hell out of that cage before anything bad happens to him. Unfortunately for Brock, a clothesline ain't keeping The Undertaker down (lets face it, Brock is good, but his clothesline isn't on the level of Stan Hansen, Barry Windham of even JBL!  ).

'Taker drags Lesnar down from the cage, and proceeds to punch the fuck out of his face, before the sheer power of Lesnar forces the legend to fly face first into the steel! One suplex later, and Lesnar tries to escape once again, this time through the door at its quicker. I love how they are playing out the match here, with Lesnar getting out-performed by the veteran, finding a small opening, then trying to take advantage of that one small opening as much as possible (trying to escape and retain his title).

Nice little sequence with The Undertaker coming off the top rope, landing a bionic elbow to the head of Lesnar, before throwing the champ into the same side of the cage that Lesnar threw him into! Now that Lesnar seems to be down and hurting, The Undertaker takes a page out of Lesnar's book, and quickly tries to escape through the door to win the title!

Plenty of great back and forth action throughout this match, with both guys getting in a good amount of offence. I liked the variation of the Last Ride from the ropes, as instead of slamming Lesnar down to the mat, he slammed him back first into the side of the cage.

Ending for the match is pretty cool, with The Undertaker countering an F-5 into a Chokeslam, then crawling out of the door only to be met by Mr McMahon who slams the door into his face! McMahon ends up being dragged into the ring, and the match turns into chaos! We then end up with Vince knocked out, and Lesnar fighting The Undertaker on the top rope, and a nice big spot to make the fans in attendance very happy!

In the end, its Vince who plays a role in Lesnar retaining the title, but of course, with this being a House Show, The Undertaker doesn't want to leave the people leave disappointed. Vince remains in the ring celebrating, while Lesnar leaves... allowing Big Evil to take revenge on the owner inside a cage! Lesnar comes back, and gets Tombstones for his troubles!

I gotta say, this was better than I was expecting. If I had attending this House Show, I know I would have left extremely happy, even if 'Taker didn't win . Hell, I would go as far as to say this is their second best match together, behind the HIAC!

*Rating: ***3/4*

Obviously I wouldn't have it above their UF 02 match now, but I did back when I watched this .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let me guess, at the time you forgot that UNF 2002 existed :lol?

Screw Punk-Cena, I've got Cena-Viscera to watch. Hell, I'm gonna go through a smattering of 2006 John Cena today to celebrate just 14 days until he regains his WWE Championship for the 11th time.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Who exactly is the guy that is at (what seems like) every wrestling event front row with the red hat? I know y'all know who I'm talking about


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Let me guess, at the time you forgot that UNF 2002 existed :lol?
> 
> Screw Punk-Cena, I've got Cena-Viscera to watch. Hell, I'm gonna go through a smattering of 2006 John Cena today to celebrate just 14 days until he regains his WWE Championship for the 11th time.


"jahn shena cant rastle every1 hve to cally him to good mache nd he only has 5 move of dooms" is what somebody outside of this thread would say and what would be your response?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Sign Guy?

Just watched Cena-Viscera from 8/7/06.. WATCH IT. It's vintage "Cena overcoming the odds" but GOD DAMN is the face in peril performance from Cena solid as fuck. ALSO, the most impressive F-U you'll ever see in your life as he manages to put down like 500 pounds of centered weight (which is really, really fucked up). It's short and it's easy to sit through, so watch it watch it watch it now.

*** 1/4*

EDIT : I'd say "you are a moron", because little do they know that insulting Cena does nothing but make him better and better and bigger and bigger as a legend. They're making it easier at the end of the day for me to say "In the history of the WWE NOBODY has gotten the consistent reactions that John Cena has whether it be good or bad. NOBODY has evoked emotion from WWE fans as much as John Cena, and coupled with the fact that he's a better worker than most of YOUR HEROES is a reason why I'd consider him to be one of the greatest all around performers ever".

Then I'd throw this in at the end.

:cena3


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

MoveMent said:


> Who exactly is the guy that is at (what seems like) every wrestling event front row with the red hat? I know y'all know who I'm talking about


Yea, He has a blue short sleeve jacket and a white shirt. He has some pretty funny/clever signs at times and noticed his a huge Cena mark (it's probably KOK).


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The Sign Guy?
> 
> Just watched Cena-Viscera from 8/7/06.. WATCH IT. It's vintage "Cena overcoming the odds" but GOD DAMN is the face in peril performance from Cena solid as fuck. ALSO, the most impressive F-U you'll ever see in your life as he manages to put down like 500 pounds of centered weight (which is really, really fucked up). It's short and it's easy to sit through, so watch it watch it watch it now.
> 
> *** 1/4*












:cena2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How would you rank the following guys as far as their in-ring work while they held the World Heavyweight Title:

Randy Orton
Triple H
Edge
Chris Benoit
Chris Jericho
John Cena
Batista
The Undertaker
Sheamus
Kane


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MoveMent said:


> Who exactly is the guy that is at (what seems like) every wrestling event front row with the red hat? I know y'all know who I'm talking about


Yup, that's the sign guy. All the wrestlers know him since he's at pretty much every event.



ATF said:


> How would you rank the following guys as far as their in-ring work while they held the World Heavyweight Title:
> 
> Randy Orton
> Triple H
> ...


Chris Benoit
Chris Jericho
Edge
Triple H
Randy Orton
The Undertaker
Batista
Cena
Sheamus
Kane

Something like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Obviously I wouldn't have it above their UF 02 match now, but I did back when I watched this .


Okay, I think I know what to watch once I'm done with this SD where Batista returns! 



KingOfKings said:


> Just watched Cena-Viscera from 8/7/06.. WATCH IT. It's vintage "Cena overcoming the odds" but GOD DAMN is the face in peril performance from Cena solid as fuck. ALSO, the most impressive F-U you'll ever see in your life as he manages to put down like 500 pounds of centered weight (which is really, really fucked up). It's short and it's easy to sit through, so watch it watch it watch it now.
> 
> *** 1/4*


Funny thing is, I'm only a few shows away from this one. Will save it until I enter August for now. I really, really doubt this match is better than Benoit vs Viscera Beat the Clock, though. That one had a GERMAN SUPLEX from a 220 pound dude on 500 pounds giant!



> How would you rank the following guys as far as their in-ring work while they held the World Heavyweight Title:


Benoit
Undertaker
Jericho
Edge
HHH
Orton
Batista
Sheamus
Cena
Kane


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Okay, I think I know what to watch once I'm done with this SD where Batista returns!
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing is, I'm only a few shows away from this one. Will save it until I enter August for now. I really, really doubt this match is better than Benoit vs Viscera Beat the Clock, though. *That one had a GERMAN SUPLEX from a 220 pound dude on 500 pounds giant!*


Come On C2D. We all know they jump for the german.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

What did you guys think of Undertaker's reign as WHC in 2009/2010 as far as in-ring work goes?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Come On C2D. We all know they jump for the german.


Yeah but it requires stamina and strength. They will jump, but it's up to the person doing it to elevate them enough and land them above their head/shoulders. Definitely not as easy as you make it sound. Specially if a 220 pound guy does it on somebody who's 500+ pounds.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> What did you guys think of Undertaker's reign as WHC in 2009/2010 as far as in-ring work goes?


Well he never had any bad matches, but most were just around *** and nothing more. He was in pretty bad shape at the time, but still managed to do well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena and Benoit had FOUR matches in 2003? Can somebody tell me if they're good? I know the December one is the BROCK show and that match happens to be great, but what about the rest?

Watching John Cena vs Balls Mahoney now, love watching random obscure Cena matches. (It was like two minutes long, obviously not rate-able.)

OH AND RANKINGZ!*

Benoit
HHH
Jericho
Batista
Cena (Every single match when he had that belt was GREAT)
Orton
Undertaker (when he WAS champion he never really had very many awesome matches)
Edge
Sheamus
Kane


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena and Benoit had FOUR matches in 2003? Can somebody tell me if they're good? I know the December one is the BROCK show and that match happens to be great, but what about the rest?


The tournament final in April of '03 is a pretty good match. Don't remember a whole lot outside of the finish but I believe I had it at *** 1/4. It's on_ John Cena: Word Life_.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena and Benoit had FOUR matches in 2003? Can somebody tell me if they're good? I know the December one is the BROCK show and that match happens to be great, but what about the rest?


The first one in April for the #1 contender spot at Backlash is pretty good. The second one takes place right before Judgment Day and is alright but nothing special and I recall it being a bit too short and their third match is the one where Rhyno accidentally knocks out Benoit. It's good from what I recall but nothing is on the level of the December match. That one was awesome and the only match of theirs that really got a decent amount of time.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Smackdown 21st September 2000 - Triple H, The Rock & The Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kurt Angle & Kane*

Wow, the star power in this match is huge. And to think this was simply a main event on Smackdown. If this happened now (for obvious reasons it couldn't) it would headline a PPV and surely draw huge buys. Anyway, on to the match.

This is just before Unforgiven with HHH set to face Kurt Angle and Benoit involved in the fatal 4-way for the WWF Title. Trips is in his brief face run (although I've always said this run was just to throw people off his tail in regards to the running down Austin storyline) and we get him and Benoit to start the match off. Both men go at each other hard with strikes before HHH hits the Harley Race high knee which Benoit sells well. Trips is on top briefly before Benoit hangs him up on the ropes. Benoit tags in Kane by chopping him in the chest (which is pretty funny) and Kane obviously doesn't like that and starts attacking the rest of his team. Kane looks in great shape here.

We then get some brief action between Triple H and Angle and Benoit and Taker (sadly something we didn't see often). Kane then comes in and looks completely in his element up against Taker and Rock, before the match begins to descend into a brawl, as Kane and Benoit start beating on The Rock on the ramp. Undertaker goes to help The Rock, before almost running him down on his motorcycle. Back in the ring, HHH rolls up Angle for the win but Angle gets revenge with an Olympic Slam and a sledgehammer shot before asking Hunter "Ask your wife if I kiss like a pansy" and "Who's crying now?" Pretty awesome heel work there.

Not much interaction between HHH and Benoit here but another fun main event tag match in 2000. I actually distinctly remember this match since it was on my birthday, and it holds up pretty well. You don't get this kind of star power in TV main events nowadays, that's for sure.

****1/4*

*Smackdown 28th September 2000 - Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle*

So it's the very next week and we have Triple H and The Rock together ('The Brahma Game?' 'The Cerebral Bull'?) against Benoit and Angle. The seeds have already been planted this past Raw for the HHH/Benoit feud when Benoit headbutted Stephanie. 

Triple H comes out with heavily taped ribs from the sledgehammer show by Angle the week before. He goes straight after both men before Rock can even make his entrance. Angle and Benoit smartly work on The Game's ribs by stomping him hard in the corner. We get some solid tag action with each combination getting a few minutes to mix it up together. Angle and Benoit then take control and work on HHH's ribs again, before Benoit locks in the Crossface. Trips sells it well by screaming loudly but doesn't tap and Rock eventually breaks it up. Benoit hits a beautiful German Suplex and then argues with Angle, before hitting the diving headbutt from the top rope right into the injured ribs of The Game. Solid control period by both heels, Benoit looking on top of his game.

A few minutes later, with the referee distracted, HHH takes out Benoit with the title belt but there's no referee to count. Angle returns the favour by striking HHH with it, and rolling Benoit on top of him. A long two count follows. Rock and HHH then have a fun game of 'who can smash their opponents head into the announcers table harder?' which is pretty entertaining. Back in the ring, Rock goes to finish off Angle with a chair, but Stephanie stops him, and Angle plants him with the Olympic Slam for the win, setting up their feud for the next month.

Another solid enough match, as expected very consistent quality so far. Good work on Triple H's ribs by both Benoit and Angle, and a fun match with a lot of action. With No Mercy just a few weeks away, HHH and Benoit will mix it up a few more times before their blowoff match at the PPV.

*****

*So Far:
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4*​


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Slightly better match this time around between these two, Magnum T.A & Nikita Koloff. Match 7 in their best of 7 series feud. 08/23/86 Worldwide Wrestling.

I would hope Nikita did gradually get better, he is a solid athlete. But I'm going to assume not much since his career hasn't gone very far since his Starrcade match with Flair. He is still very green psychologically in the ring at this point. He had the look, had the gimmick to work during that era. But, not remembered through time. They maintain the work on the arm, keep up the wrestling throughout at a better standard, its a just above good, just below great match. The interference from the Russians played to the perfect ending to their feud, was the opportunity to propell Magnum to face Flair at Starrcade '86 for tha big gold belt. That planned match unfortunately never happened. If you ever decide to watch some NWA through this time period, keep an eye out for this feud.

***1/4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm wondering what should I do after I finish my WHC project.. I'm considering a Best Of TV Matches From PG Era. 2011 alone should give me something to joy :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ That would be a solid project. I'd be interested in it, for sure. Keep up the good work on your WHC project for now though. Enjoying reading it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just watched the six man tag from TLC and it was amazing. I gave it **** but I wouldn't argue up to ****1/2. From start to finish it was entertaining.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Such a BEAST match. Bryan is the ultimate "Babyface against the fucking world" in that match, he essentially knows he has no chance against the three headed monster after Kane and Ryback have been taken out but he's determined to fight until the end. Bryan's best performance in the WWE?

Fuck Yeah.

PS : Shield have been the best thing going since they arrived, BY FAR. The shining light in this company until Cena gets the belt back at Mania, then things go uphill once again thank god.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KOK, since you're watching Cena 06 TV matches, whatcha think of his match with SHELTY B from 10/7? (if you've seen it) The Rated R announce table is right there and I'm a few minutes into it now.

EDIT: Now watching the Flair/Foley segment from the same show. Wow, this is so awesome. Two top 5 talkers! Foley on the tron was absolutely out of this world.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Does anyone have ratings for the Edge/Angle/Eddie/Benoit fatal 4-way from Smackdown in late 2002? It was a #1 contenders match for the right to face Big Show for the title at Armageddon. Can't recall it so I'll give it a watch.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena had a fun "match" with Kevin Federline in 2006 or 2007, Can't recall what year it was though.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just picked up Foley's Greatest hits and misses.. Looks like a whole lot of brutal fun :mark: Everyone's favorite Foley match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Cena had a fun "match" with Kevin Federline in 2006 or 2007, Can't recall what year it was though.


That was during my sabatical from the product, but i tuned in once in a while and i turned to Sky Sports one day, Raw was on and it was Cena/Federline and i was just like for fuck's sake :|

True story.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Fav. Foley match? Sting/Foley from Beach Blast 92', but I love the Trips/Foley match from Royal Rumble 00 or the Rock/Foley match from 99', which won the MOTY award. Taker/Foley from KotR and Foley/Orton from Backlash have honorable mentions


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;15786258 said:


> Just picked up Foley's Greatest hits and misses.. Looks like a whole lot of brutal fun :mark: Everyone's favorite Foley match?


Beach Blast '92 vs Sting.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Ryback & Team Hell No vs. Shield at last year's TLC PPV was BEAST! Had everything I expected/wanted out of it. Great performances, great spots, great physicality, great crowd, etc. Have it ranked at ★★★★1/2. Makes up for the fact that Punk wasn't wrestling due to injury.

Was even at the Barclays Center in attendance for the event. Positively entertaining show throughout and by far the best WWE experience I've had.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Fav. Foley match? Sting/Foley from Beach Blast 92', but I love the Trips/Foley match from Royal Rumble 00 or the Rock/Foley match from 99', which won the MOTY award. Taker/Foley from KotR and Foley/Orton from Backlash have honorable mentions


Trips/Cactus Jack with Sting/Jack a veeeeeeeery close second.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Beach Blast '92 vs Sting.


Yea, That's the match i always wanted to watch but no one would upload it in good quality.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, this Raw has been awesome to watch. Vince and Shane showered Eugene in green paint, then Orton squashes that jobber Val Venis in 15 seconds and Cena just raided Edge's hotel room and threw him all over the place. Where did this intensity go, John?

And now Shane and Vince come out with their clothes covered in green paint. :lol Good God, Todd Grisham has NONEXISTENT personality. When he tries to hype up his voice while introducing someone, he sounds like he's constipated.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Does anyone have ratings for the Edge/Angle/Eddie/Benoit fatal 4-way from Smackdown in late 2002? It was a #1 contenders match for the right to face Big Show for the title at Armageddon. Can't recall it so I'll give it a watch.


Been meaning to watch that for quite a while. Sounds like a great match.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Cena had a fun "match" with Kevin Federline in 2006 or 2007, Can't recall what year it was though.


That was either in late 06 or early 07.



SaviorBeeRad™;15786258 said:


> Just picked up Foley's Greatest hits and misses.. Looks like a whole lot of brutal fun :mark: Everyone's favorite Foley match?


vs Orton at Backlash 04.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My personal favorite Foley match would have to be with HBK at Mind Games. Great psychology with Shawn swaying away from his "play by the rules" face attitude.

PS: Zepi, Do you have Foley/Sting at Beach Blast 1992 on your comp somewhere?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> PS: Zepi, Do you have Foley/Sting at Beach Blast 1992 on your comp somewhere?


I have it on DVD, i could upload it but only to Hotfile if you can use that DL site


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

zep81 said:


> I have it on DVD, i could upload it but only to Hotfile if you can use that DL site


Yes, I don't mind. Thanks a lot man.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Favourite Foley match is vs HHH at RR 2000. It's an obvious choice but it's just that damn good. 

:HHH2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Yes, I don't mind. Thanks a lot man.


As im a Sting mark :ex: ill upload it this week and PM ya.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Favourite Foley match; Feb 2000 8 man tag.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WTF, I was checking Wrestlemania 22's wikipedia page to see how long Edge/Foley lasted and it says Taker/Henry's length was 45 minutes and 28 seconds.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Watched plenty of Foley matches in my life and have been fond of practically all of them. But my personal favorite would definitely be his match with Undertaker at King of the Ring '98. One of the GOAT Hell in a Cells.

* Mankind vs. Michaels at Mind Games '96.
* Mankind vs. Rock at Royal Rumble '98.
* Mankind vs. Austin at Over the Edge '98.
* Cactus Jack vs. Triple H at No Way Out '00.
* Foley vs. Orton at Backlash '04.
* Foley vs. Edge at WrestleMania 22.

All pretty rad too.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

VladMan2012 said:


> * Cactus Jack vs. Triple H at No Way Out '00.


I dont really see that match talked about much but i personally think it is excellent, Foley and Trips are once again fantastic, esp Foley with his 'career on the line', great performance


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I guess the street fight the month before overshadows their HIAC. It is a top match though. The 'career on the line' stip didn't have quite as good a punch since Foley was back a month later for 'mania. But Trips is still named as the guy that retired Foley so I guess it all worked out.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I dont really see that match talked about much but i personally think it is excellent, Foley and Trips are once again fantastic, esp Foley with his 'career on the line', great performance


Can't say I hear any much talk about it either. Guess you can say it's overlooked due to their Street Fight at the previous PPV which many feel was superior and more memorable. Still find both matches to be top notch, but I personally prefer their Hell in a Cell match.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brogue_Kick (Sep 11, 2011)

As Cactus Jack: Royal Rumble 2000. Cactus Jack vs. Triple H ¿Street Fight? ****1/2
As Dude Love: In Your House 1998. Dude Love vs. Steve Austin ***1/2
As Mick Foley: WM 22. Mick Foley vs. Edge ¿Hardcore Match? ****
As Mankind: King of the Ring 1998. The Undertaker vs Mankind. Hell in a Cell. ***1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cactus: vs HHH Royal Rumble 2000 *****
Dude: vs SCSA Over The Edge 1998 ****3/4
Mick: vs Edge WM 22 ****1/2
Mankind: vs HBK Mind Games ****3/4

What about Taker's different stages? Here are mine:

Deadman 90-97: vs HBK Badd Blood *****
Lord of Darkness: w/Show vs Rock n Sock Buried Alive ***3/4
American Badass: vs Lesnar HIAC ****1/2
Deadman 04-present: vs HBK WM 25 *****


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ATF said:


> Cactus: vs HHH Royal Rumble 2000 *****
> Dude: vs SCSA Over The Edge 1998 ****3/4
> Mick: vs Edge WM 22 ****1/2
> Mankind: vs HBK Mind Games ****3/4
> ...


Western Mortican: vs. Bret Hart - MSG Show (***1/2)
Original Deadman: vs. Mankind - Buried Alive (****)
Lord Of Darkness: vs. HBK - Bad Blood 1997 (*****)
Ministry of Darkness: vs. Steve Austin - Fully Loaded 1999 (****)
American Badass: vs. Triple H - WM17 (****1/4)
Big Evil: vs. Kurt Angle - Smackdown 2003 (*****) OR vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle - Vengeance 2002 (****3/4) OR vs. Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002 (****3/4)
Deadman Hybrid: vs. HBK - WM26 (*****)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Kurt Angle vs Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero (Fatal 4-Way Elimination #1 Contender's Match) - Smackdown 5th December 2002*

Well, this is a match I haven't seen since it aired and barely remember any of it. What an awesome contest! Edge was attacked by A-Train before the match with a steel chair, and no-ones sure whether he'll compete. He does end up limping down the ramp and joining the match though. Benoit and Angle work on Edge's leg, before Eddie and Kurt exchange some excellent suplexes. Eddie hits the frog splash but only gets two, before getting hit with a spear and trapped in the crossface which he taps out to.

Benoit and Angle then mix it up for a bit, before Edge comes off the top rope and connects with a missile dropkick. Eddie then sneaks back into the ring, and hits Benoit with his tag team title belt before Edge spears Benoit to eliminate him. From then on this match is all about Edge and Angle and they put on a fantastic showpiece. There's so many near falls and big moves that it's hard to keep up. The pace is top notch and Edge sells his injured leg excellently. He hobbles around the ring and Kurt keeps aiming his offense at it. Angle traps Edge in the Ankle Lock multiple times, but Edge is able to get to the ropes or roll out of it. Just as it looks like Edge is down and out, he hits Angle with the Angle Slam and that looks like it's over but Kurt kicks out of a really long two count. Edge goes to the top out of deseperation, but gets hit with a mammoth Angle Slam off the top and Kurt picks up the win.

Awesome match. Edge played the babyface really well and the crowd were right behind him. He also sold his injury well. A little disappointing that Benoit and Eddie got eliminated so early, but they still managed to add to the match. This was all about Angle and Edge though. Totally worth checking out.

******


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK. I can't find the 2006 Cena Vs Shelton, all I can get is the 2005 "beat the clock" match to determine entry into the NYR 2006 Chamber, which I'm currently watching (The Shelton Match, of course).

Rockin' a "Word Life" tee with some Cena & Trademarc in the background, life doesn't get any sweeter.

:cena3

EDIT: AWESOME Cena-Shelton match from 12/26/05, you guys should definitely check out that one. Cena needs to beat the clock and Shelton pulls a whole bunch of trickery out of the bag to try and make sure that Cena doesn't beat the clock, thus in turn getting frustrated and losing the match. It's a great story for a sub 10 minute match and it needs to be watched immediately. *****


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm so glad I'm not the only one that fantasizes like this with dvd listings. I think a Backlund set would be cool, but honestly I don't think it would sell too well considering how long ago he was the major face of the company.
> 
> Totally agree it wouldnt sell well. Mr. Backlund is not sexy enough to the casual fan and a lot of the hardcore fans would find his work boring.
> 
> ...


asdf


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs CM Punk - Wrestlemania XXVII*
- First time watching this after the night it happened and it still remains a solid match to me. They work a simple formula as well as they possibly can and both do their part pretty well. Punk works on the damaged knee of Orton's while Orton sells it perfectly throughout the entire match. Gets a decent amount of time and also a sweet finish with the Springboard Clothesline turned into a RKO. I remember being scared thinking that Orton might tap in the Anaconda Vice but I should have known better as those were the better times when Orton was well protected and they would never do something this idiotic with him at that point. And even if I can't stand Punk, he's definitely had a great Wrestlemania record so far but to be an asshole, I think it's hard for him not to when he's only participated in MITB matches or against great talent like Mysterio, Orton and Jericho as well as Undertaker this year. ★★★½

*John Cena vs Batista (Last Man Standing) - Extreme Rules 2010*
- Their chemistry is on point as usual here. Starts off good with Cena showing off and then Batista taking control and working on Cena's left leg. Then gets more brutal with spots such as Cena being put through two tables and the barricade as well as Batista taking a FU through the announce table. (while on replay, Cole's hand keeps being seen as he points at Cena in the ring which made me laugh) Finishers prove to not put away either so in a clever move, Cena locks Batista's legs to the ringpost by using duct-tape for the win. Great match plus it includes the hilarious "I hate you, Batista"/"I hate you too!" exchange between Big Dave and that kid in the crowd. I do take away a few points from this for the leg selling, though. Cena sold it well at first but then went into superman mode and never ever sold it again, rendering Batista's work in the early going useless. ★★★¾

*Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy - Royal Rumble 2008*
- Another solid match in Orton's excellent first long title run. Hardy fans were definitely excited for this but despite all the teasing, Orton just gets one RKO and silences them all! I enjoyed this but think there weren't enough nearfalls and the finish kinda came out of nowhere. Towards the end, most of the action takes place outside the ring then when Hardy sets up the Twist of Fate, Orton reverses it to an RKO and that's it. Still a good match but not really great. Worth noting is how hilarious Orton looked when he took that security rail bump after the Dropkick as his head was completely twisted and he sold it like he was dead. And another thing that bugs me is his boner. So many Orton matches I've watched and sometimes, it gets in the way that he has a boner all the damn time. ★★★½


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Everyone's favorite Foley match?


Wow thats a tough one. If I had to pick one I'd say V Trips at No Way Out 2000. This probably changes every day. Foley is good!


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Just picked up Foley's Greatest hits and misses.. Looks like a whole lot of brutal fun :mark: Everyone's favorite Foley match?


Texas Deathmatch against Vader


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Batista vs JOHN CENA @ Extreme Rules?

YES.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Western Mortican: vs. Bret Hart - MSG Show (***1/2)
> Original Deadman: vs. Mankind - Buried Alive (****)
> Lord Of Darkness: vs. HBK - Bad Blood 1997 (*****)
> Ministry of Darkness: vs. Steve Austin - Fully Loaded 1999 (****)
> ...



Well now that Taker only works once a year he should be known as Taker Claus. My favorite Taker Claus match was WM 27 V HHH. Yes HIAC was great but I loved 27. Taker Claus is awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TAKER-HHH XXVII > TAKER-HHH XXVIII HIAC?

YES.

PS : Just watched the Cena-Riley CAGE match from February 2011, what a terrible, terrible match. It has like 2 good sequences and the rest is complete bullshit. *1/2 **.

Cena-Snitsky Lumberjack Match is quite okay though. CENA WITH THE ODDS STACKED AGAINST HIM BAH GAWD. *** 1/4*.

:cena3


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> TAKER-HHH XXVII > TAKER-HHH XXVIII HIAC?
> 
> YES.


Agreed.

Cena/Punk Raw February 17th 2011- 

Dutty finish was fun with the SPANNER. Great match as always between these two mights of the E.

*****


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I mean HiaC last year was amazing with Taker/Trips but I like their WM27 match a little better. Both well over 4 stars imho.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Do you guys think that Punk/Taker can top any of Taker Claus's others?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes lets keep Taker Claus going!

I don't know if Taker/Punk can top any of the last few Taker WM matches but I think it can be damn good. Like 4-4.5 stars good. Can Punk even get Taker in the GTS though? I don't know I'm just not a huge fan of this booking. I love Punk and Taker both and Im sure it will be a great match but I wanted to see Taker/Brock and Punk/HHH instead. Oh well I still think it will be a solid match and a good WM.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Finished watching Halloween Havoc and Starrcade '91. Jesus Christ, did these shows suck. Austin/Rhodes and Luger/Simmons from Halloween Havoc were pretty good with Austin/Rhodes being the best match on the card. Also, who in the flying fuck thought the Chamber of Horrors was a good idea? What a complete fucking waste of time and talents. Heyman declaring war against WCW and starting the Dangerous Alliance was the highlight of the show though. :mark:

Starrcade was pretty much the same. Just a bunch of shitty tag matches except for Abby/Sting vs. Eaton/Pillman and the whole Battle Bowl concept might actually be more retarded than the Chamber of Horrors. I still don't understand the rules for that fucking battle royal. 

Terrible way to cap off a year that actually started off with a couple good PPVs. Oh well, onto 1992 and green pastures!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Batista vs JOHN CENA @ Extreme Rules?
> 
> YES.


JOHN LENA


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This JOHN CENA binge has been UN-FUCKING-REAL.

Everybody should go watch more JOHN CENA, the guy is legit one of the greatest WWE main event style workers that there has ever been. If he fell off the face of the earth tomorrow the WWE would be in financial crisis in like... A WEEK.

THE FRANCHISE PLAYER.

:cena2

PS: WHERE THE FUCK DID THAT AWESOME CENA-MIZ MATCH COME FROM?!?!?!?! That match is great, what a performance by Cena here, RAW 5/2/11.. **** 1/2* ?!?!?!?! MIZ ?!?!?!?! 

Holy shit. That was awesome and unexpected. WELL. I HAVE A TRIO OF R-TRUTH MATCHES TO WATCH NOW.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Haha KOK you are going crazy. Have you watched anything without Cena in the last week?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Favorite Foley match? Yikes. Unsure if I've picked outside of the personal life long favorite all time match vs Undertaker from King of the Ring '98.

Could be a tie between Street Fight vs Trips & w/Maxx Payne vs Nasty Boys from Spring Stampede '94. There are the Vader matches lurking about too...


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Favorite Foley match? Yikes. Unsure if I've picked outside of the personal life long favorite all time match vs Undertaker from King of the Ring '98.
> 
> Could be a tie between Street Fight vs Trips & w/Maxx Payne vs Nasty Boys from Spring Stampede '94. There are the Vader matches lurking about too...


You like the Nasty Boys match? I don't think I could really rate it, it was crazy


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's tremendous b/c it was so absurdly crazy. All under 9 minutes too. Those guys killed it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_John Cena vs Rey Mysterio (RAW 7/25/11)_

What a fucking match, I mean WOW. One of the greatest workers of all time going head to head in a main event with perhaps the greatest WWE MAIN EVENT style worker ever with the WWE Championship on the line. As much as I love Punk-Cena, this should have main evented Summerslam, therefore delaying Punk's return and making it more special, WTF WWE.

This is one of the most special TV matches that I've ever see, Cena's selling of the knee and how he collapses on the first AA attempt, Rey beasting as usual, REY'S STF..... It's a classic, classic match and although it really isn't long... I don't give a fuck... I'll be damned if this isn't one of the greatest performances of John Cena's career.

It's that much sweeter since I just got finished with two BAD Truth vs Cena RAW matches.

***** 1/4*


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> This JOHN CENA binge has been UN-FUCKING-REAL.
> 
> Everybody should go watch more JOHN CENA, the guy is legit one of the greatest WWE main event style workers that there has ever been. If he fell off the face of the earth tomorrow the WWE would be in financial crisis in like... A WEEK.
> 
> ...


That Cena/Miz match is a serious forgotten gem, if only they could of performed like that at Wrestlemania. 

Favourite foley match, so many to choose from but I'm gonna be have to boring and say vs HHH Royal Rumble 2000. One of my favourites ever.

Cena vs Mysterio :mark: should of been the main event at Summerslam. Such an awesome match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tables match vs R-Truth was tolerable for 5 minutes on TV. The environment proved to be a fair way for Truth to brawl with Cena thanks to his limited capabilities. Be honest, did you watch the post-match promo or did you quickly jump to Cena vs Mysterio? :hmm:

I wished I chose an project with a worker the like of yours. Some of these Finlay matches are so scare it's frustrating. Watching his first match vs Chuck Palumbo from 5/23/08, I click the third video for the match and boom. No finish. I was left 9 minutes in with no finish. Knowing there probably was only a minute left, tops, it doesn't deflate the annoyance of such a thing. Suppose getting the general feel of the match I can skip ahead to his latter two matches vs Palumbo. One being the most forgotten Belfast Brawl in company history. I missed that Smackdown too, so it's even lost on my in terms of match quality. Need to find their first match in full though. That's my mission these days. Finding full length Chuck Palumbo matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why I just started at the beginning of 2011 and worked my way up with random matches from other years in between ; They're so easy to find that if I can't find the specific match then I can just Google the date of the show it was on and find it with ease. Cena's THE high profile guy so it's damn near impossible for there to be a match of his that isn't on the internet somewhere with easy access, I've run into a few exceptions with the earlier years but of course that's expected. I'm only doing singles matches for now too but we'll see how I expand on that in the near future. The plan is to watch as many CENA TV SINGLES matches pre Wrestlemania (Fuck, I watched 24 today) as I possibly can and then move on to the PPV matches (I own like over 90 percent of them) when I go back home after regular classes are over (two weeks left, then CENA PPV and MANIA).

The Truth match is meh, *** for some of the brawling and shit I suppose. I had no choice but to watch the post match promo, it's a necessity every single time. I only have like FIVE Cena singles matches left for 2011 so I'll probably blow through the rest of them tonight while attempting to get through the 2012/2013 ones tomorrow depending on how I feel. I'm not writing anything in depth about them either bar a few of them which makes it that much funner for me.

CHUCK PALUMBO :lol ... Man I would have been SO pissed if that had to happen to me.

PS: Saw the first DUD of my Cena watching's so far...... 5/31/11 vs R-Truth... Terrible match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Favorite Foley match is vs. Triple H at the Royal Rumble. However, Foley/Orton at Backlash 2004 was terrific, and it got Orton over. That RKO counter on the THUMB TACKS!

Something that deserves watching is Foley/Trips in a Falls Count Anywhere match on Raw in July 1997. Fun TV match, and it's the first time we see CACTUS JACK in WWF.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most John-boy matches are online. So the access is damn near unlimited when you wrap your brain around it. If not via streaming site, WWE.com no doubt has the remaining bits and pieces out there.

Yeah, that's where I have the Tables match too. I'm not putting over the match necessarily, only compared to the bulk it wasn't the biggest eyesore possible. You know a Truth 5 minute match should beat a 14 minute match. Except for that first Truth match you just mention where he wins by countout. ugh. So brutal to view.

To Chuck's credit, he worked well vs Finlay. To beauty of Finlay's WWE career was how in 99% of his matches the wrestlers all adapted their game to match Finlay's. Or if they didn't, they got smashed. It's honestly the coolest thing ever. His tenure within WWE was something else. No one else got the respect he seemed to recieve. Constant anecdotes via commentary about his style and history coming into play. No matter who he's working - big or small name. 

As far as finding his matches goes, it isn't THAT hard. Only there are those few - mostly the first matches between opponents - that are flat out lost. Which rubs me the wrong way as I'm the kind of guy who likes to watch series vs workers in order. It's the best way to capture their progression and how their matches always pan out. First matches vs Benoit & Mysterio are nowhere to be found. Tis a shame when ALL the other Mysterio matches are online and I'm dying to relive 'em.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Flipping through the older threads and noticed this, what's with the hate for the Triple H/Undertaker matches in 2002 at KOTR and Insurrextion? I thought they were solid matches, peaking at the ***1/2 side of things. Insurrextion was a little better than KOTR. That low blow and roll up finish was weak, even for a heel Undertaker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Cena-Finlay match might make my top 50-75 Cena singles matches ever (haven't decided the exact length of my list yet). It's fantastic.

I just watched a horrible Miz-Cena match reminiscent of Mania XXVII that took place on Halloween 2011. DAMN was that match bad, not DUD bad..... BUT BADDDDD..... Makes me wonder where the hell that May match came from in all honesty. 

HOLY SHIT MARK HENRY VS JOHN CENA. YES.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Brock Lesnar vs Big Show - RR 2003
Man, screw Ryback and Mark Henry, I want to see these two go at it again.. Definite change of pace with Brock being the against all odds face. Haven't seen that for years. Great, short, and FUN.

*** 1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

From what I can recall the action was shoddy + poor booking in the finish. In regards to KOTR. I recall not hating the Insurexxion match. Thinking it was only fairly decent. Undertaker should have had better performances overall. He and Trips don't particularly mesh well either _(in regards to Taker & Austin being another "big" pairing in Undertaker's career that was decent at best on their curve of matches)_ outside out of about two matches - WM 17 & 28.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> That Cena-Finlay match might make my top 50-75 Cena singles matches ever (haven't decided the exact length of my list yet). It's fantastic.
> 
> I just watched a horrible Miz-Cena match reminiscent of Mania XXVII that took place on Halloween 2011. DAMN was that match bad, not DUD bad..... BUT BADDDDD..... Makes me wonder where the hell that May match came from in all honesty.
> 
> HOLY SHIT MARK HENRY VS JOHN CENA. YES.


I'm going to rewatch it again to mark down the time it received. Perhaps I could grow to be a bit more favorable on it, despite liking it already. Didn't care for the Hogan-esque finish like I said the first time around. Best part of the match was when Finlay deliberately slammed Cena's arm as hard as he could on the steps. Cena's reaction was like _"oh please, let this end asap."_ Awesome.

I...don't remember that match. Probably a sign of it being crap. Finish is plenty vivid for me. Only b/c I'm a huge mark for the Scream franchise. So, see Ghostface get an FU was one heck of a sight for this fan. Cena didn't receive a call before getting attatcked. R-Truth did it wrong. Boooo

ugh, I probably should have just edited my post to respond here. My bad.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker and Trips definitely mesh to a greater extent than Undertaker and Austin. I consider all their WM matches classics and at or above ****1/2 (Not their WM17 though, It was great but not "classic")

Undertaker and Austin could have had better matches, If Austin hadn't gotten injured at Summerslam and hadn't resorted to a brawling style for the majority of his WWF career. Their match at Cold Day in Hell, is a great example of what Austin and Taker could of produced in terms of pure wrestling.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It was a horrendous match. 

WAY TO MAKE MIZ/TRUTH LOOK CREDIBLE AGAINST ROCK/CENA @ SURVIVOR SERIES... By having Cena destroy BOTH of them needing absolutely no help what so ever. GENIUS.

I adore that Cena/Finlay match man. Cena works stiffer in that then he ever has in his entire career. Masters said in an interview once that he thought Cena worked really stiff so I can't wait to check those matches out TBH.

Last two CENA matches of 2011? N/R due to one's time constraints (Henry) and one really not happening (MIZ... Thank god). So I'm gonna watch a few more CENA matches for the fuck of it, glad to have one full year of TV matches completely over with though, so much fucking fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd honestly take Undertaker vs Austin over Undertaker vs Triple H. Though, like I said, neither were the best opponents for the Dead Man. When it comes to Trips, I've said it a million times over and I'll say it again: his guy to work with is Foley. Foley brought out the best in Trips damn near every time.

@KOK - we all knew the Survivor Series 2011 main event was a farce as it is. Couldn't do any worse than having Miz & Truth as the opponents. Not a single bought into that crap. Match sucked as expected.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

To be honest ; practically everything Rock is involved in since 2011 is/has been a complete fucking farce :lol.

2012 starts off with DOLPH-Cena... Just like how 2013 started? DEAR GOD... LET THIS MATCH BE BETTER. PLEASE.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rock was the best guy in the Survivor Series 2011 tag.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock's 3 minutes were fabulous.

Cena vs Dolph in early 2012 wasn't good. Still has their 2013 match beat.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd throw ** 1/2* at it.

The formula was there for them to have a great, great match that isn't reminiscent of their terrible 2013 series, but it was derailed by the whole "Ryder changing a tire" thing that stuns me with just how absurd it actually is :lol.

Cena-Miz AGAIN?!?!?! WHAT THE FUCK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was an easy DUD for me. Crap filler with the insertions of Ryder like you mentioned.

Cena's only solid/good matches in early 2012 were on PPV. Hell, dare I say all on PPV. Nothing from his 2012 TV run in the first half of the year sticks out. Either b/c he didn't work or b/c they weren't given any time. vs Tensai Extreme Rules is the only one coming to mind.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Pre MANIA vs Henry was a good *** 1/4* "CENA VS MONSTER" match and Cena actually had a pretty decent match against Otunga which features BROCK in the aftermath as well. Nothing to jump out of your socks over of course, watching Cena-Big Show from 7/30/12 at the moment, should be decent as Cena's quality in ring wise is certainly looking up at this point.

Already had quite a few matches watched from this year like the Jericho one, the Otunga ones, the Tensai ones, etc... That's why I've been able to make it this far so fast :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about the abbreviated Jericho match. Could be decent on a second viewing. Chemistry is normally strong enough to bring something to the table. Before I do all that, I really have to slam through all of No Way Out 2012. Part of me is super confident I'll like Cena vs Show more this time around. Only seen most of the show one time despite owning it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's decent, doesn't get nearly enough time as it rightfully should though, fuck.

Show/Cena with Punk on commentary from RAW 7/30/12 is really, really solid. I haven't rewatched the Cage match since it aired as it's the only 2012 PPV I don't own and I like to own PPVs on DVD before I watch them (unless it's something I can't get like a WCW show or something).

*** 3/4* for this one. Good work.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. CENA VS BRYAN IS UP NEXT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Danielson is the tops. I remember when all we had to gush over was their 4 minute Velocity match back in what, 2002? Getting ten minutes on RAW ten years later made things come full circle. Damn good match. I want more.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wcw mayhem 1999 had 12 matches. TWELVE.

benoit/jarrett any good? how bout sting/hart?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Solid & bleh.

Benoit vs Jarrett from Starrcade in the Ladder Match is stronger. That show had THIRTEEN matches, btw.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lol wow. 

WCW FILLING U UP WITH MATCHES


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what happens when seven of them are less than or only 5 minutes. 8*D


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Is any of Taker's work prior to the WWE/WWF worth watching, You know when he had that "MEAN MARK" gimmick in WCW. Also, curious to see what are your top ten Undertaker matches with dem' STAR RATINGZ of course.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So much talk on Cena TV matches is really inspiring me into pursuing a Best Of PG Era TV Matches, though for now I really should keep myself in my WHC project.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Top Ten Undertaker matches is something I'd have to take a whole day out to try and conjure up. Purposely make things more meticulous than they should be only b/c of who the topic surrounds.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Any thoughts on 1993? I'm getting into some retro Raw stuff and want to start from the beginning. Downloaded most of the shows, anything I should look out for and get my hopes up on?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WCW is the stronger promotion overall that year. They're the company more worth a look, imo. WWF '93 has heel Doink, so you'll get something great just thanks to him.

Best. Gimmick. Ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Guy said:


> Any thoughts on 1993? I'm getting into some retro Raw stuff and want to start from the beginning. Downloaded most of the shows, anything I should look out for and get my hopes up on?


Flair/Hennig
Micheals/Jannetty
Razor/Kid
Doink/Jannetty
Razor/Diesel


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ratings for these matches:

Taker/Jericho 1st time ever
ADR/Rey 2 out of 3 falls
Christian/ADR Steel Cage
Cara/Bourne No Countout


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DOINK. Heel Doink is awesome during Raw 93.

WM 15 review in my blog . Pretty turd event, which sums up the AE 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Top Ten Undertaker matches is something I'd have to take a whole day out to try and conjure up. Purposely make things more meticulous than they should be only b/c of who the topic surrounds.


Ive always wanted to make my own 'Best of the Taker' compilation set, unless someone wants to make it for me lol :side:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Top Ten Taker matches would be very hard to conjure up. So many choices. Perhaps do a top 10 by decade/gimmick, and then slowly cut a few down to get the definitive list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 10 Undertaker matches?

10. Vs Batista - WrestleMania 23 - 01/04/2007 - ****1/2
09. Vs Randy Orton - Hell in a Cell - Armageddon 18/12/2005 - ****1/2
08. Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 27 03/04/2011 - ****3/4
07. Vs Kurt Angle - No Way Out 09/02/2006 - ****3/4
06. Vs Brock Lesnar - Hell in a Cell - No Mercy 20/10/2002 - ****3/4
05. Vs Triple H - Hell in a Cell - WrestleMania 28 01/04/2012 - ****3/4
04. Vs Vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown 04/09/2003 - ****3/4 and greatest WWE TV match ever
03. Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 05/04/2009 - *****
02. Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 28/03/2010 - ***** and currently the greatest WM match of all time, gonna see how it holds up to Austin/Bret when I get to WM 26 for my reviews
01. Vs Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell - In Your House 18: Badd Blood 05/10/1997 - ***** and greatest match of all time

Just included singles matches. 4 way from The Final Four PPV in 97 is a strong ****3/4 for me which would go over HHH WM 27 match. Then there are a couple of RR matches at high ****1/2 ratings but doesn't feel right to put those on a list for anyone unless that person was a major part of the match (Flair in 92, Benoit in 04 for example). Don't think I'm missing anything out... but you know me .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good list. Taker DA KING of Hell In A Cell matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005:* **1/2. It was about 5 minutes, but they worked well those 5 minutes - especially considering Orton was injured. Good crowd heat, nice speed vs. strenght dynamic, pretty good psychology and storytelling, as Orton looked desperate and dastardly in every move he performed. Also loved when 'Tista used all of his power to throw Orton, injured shoulder first, into the post. That was very cool. Decent harmless stuff overall.

*Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005:* ***1/4. It was Batista's 1st title defense, and essentially one that served for nothing but hype. But, it was pretty good hype for what it was. For starters, Hunter did a nice job as Christian's back-up. The match itself, while aided by an awesome London crowd, was a pretty solid big guy vs. small guy affair, with some nice storytelling and flow. Of course, Christian was on fire in '05, so much he couldn't work a bad match with Giant Gonzales. But Batista did carry his own, brought in raw power that perfectly matched CC's speed and in-ring dexterity, and played very well the role of strong and adrenaline-rushed babyface. Good match, here.

*Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005:* ***1/2. It was leaps and bounds better than WM 21, I assure you that. Pretty simple reason for that - psychology was AWESOME. In that department, Batista stepped up his game perfectly, trying to avoid the Pedigree - which was the key factor in the build for this one, in particular - in every manner possible, while Hunter, WM 25-like, tries to go for it as soon as the bell rings, like a shark that smells blood in the water. The atmosphere wasn't as powerful as the Mania one, but the wrestling felt far more subtile and crisper, not relying on bladejobs, forced epicness and flashy powerhouse moves to be good. Giving the whole Pedigree story, I actually marked out a little when 'Tista kicked out of it, and I also liked him spawning the Batista Bomb off the corner, shading off Taker (his future greatest rival ever, btw). Pretty good match, that often gets overshadowed by TRIPSTISTAHIACZOMG:mark: but kinda deserves something.

*NEXT*: The Gold Rush Tournament winner puts the money in his bank mouth, TRIPSTISTAHIACZOMG:mark:, and the World Title goes to Smackdown...

*EDIT~: UPDATED WHC MATCH RANKS LIST:*
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
*Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005 (**1/2)*
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
*Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005 (***1/4)*
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
*Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005 (***1/2)*
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****1/2)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Awesome list, Cal. However, I remember you liked Taker/Batista at CS 2007 much more than their WM bout. What made you change your mind? Also surprised that Taker/Rock/Angle from Vengeance 2002 isn't their.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their CS match is my favourite match of their series, but I still think WM is better.

V02 triple threat used to be the full ***** for me but it went down to **** on last watch. Probably wouldn't make a top 30 Undertaker matches list .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

It still holds up for me at ****3/4, I agree with you on Taker/Angle SD 2003 being better than their 2006 NWO encounter. The action was fast and flowed really well plus the crowd was hot from stat to finish.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Taker:

(*****)
1) Taker/HBK WM25
(****3/4)
2) Taker/HBK BB97
3) Taker/Angle NWO 06
4) Taker/Lesnar NM 02
5) Taker/Angle SD September 03
(****1/2)
6) Taker/HBK WM26
7) Taker/Batista WM23
8) Taker/Edge SS 08
(****1/4)
9) Taker/Rock/Angle Vengeance 02
10) Taker/Edge WM24


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Vengeance 2002 Triple Threat is still ******+ from me, but will watch again for confirmation.

Last night I watched a couple of HHH street fights from the Falls Count Anywhere set. Thoughts:

*vs Kevin Nash (Insurexxtion 2003)* - I remember watching this live, and a few times since and let's just say this match will never be considered 'good'. It's really a big mess, where nothing gets going and Nash and Trips never seem to be on the same wavelength. Flair and HBK getting involved is a bit of fun, and Flair blading mere minutes into the match is entertaining, but this never gets going. With their HIAC match just a week away, they couldn't put everything on the table, which begs the question why book this match in the first place? Anyway, poor. But that's 2003 HHH for ya.

**1/4*

*vs Umaga (Cyber Sunday 2007)* - Now this is a lot better. Both men mix it up on the ramp before HHH spears Umaga through the set. Then we get trash cans, chairs and of course the good ol' sledgehammer. Umaga hits the big splash through the announcer's table after running over the other two, which is a good spot. He has a lot of control in this match before HHH comes back with some power moves, and is finally able to pull out the win with the sledgehammer/Pedigree combo. Really good match, a lot of fun and the crowd enjoyed it.

****3/4*

Thoughts on these matches? Not expecting much praise for the Insurexxtion match ha.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Good list too, Rawk. I personally feel HBK/Taker HIAC is the best of all their matches. 

On to another topic, Finally saw the HBK/HHH match from the last RAW of 2003 and it was perfect besides the screwy finish. ****1/2 for me and their best singles match together. Makes me think, Why did they overbook the HHH/HBK feud with gimmick matches? They ruined it by doing so.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ I enjoyed the Nash Street Fight, personally. Thought it was a fun little overbooked match. Essentially a tag match of course but I didn't mind it. *** 1/4. Totally agree on HHH/Umaga. Awesome match.


That Guy said:


> Any thoughts on 1993? I'm getting into some retro Raw stuff and want to start from the beginning. Downloaded most of the shows, anything I should look out for and get my hopes up on?


I love RAW in '93 and '94. Look out for HEEL DOINK and these gems:

*Loser Leaves WWF*
Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect - ****
_January 25, 1993

_*WWF Championship*
Bret Hart(c) vs. Fatu - ***3/4
_March 1, 1993_

Lex Luger vs. Crush - ***
_April 26, 1993_

*Intercontinental Championship - Lumberjack Match*
Shawn Michaels(c) vs. "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan - ***
_May 10, 1993_

*Intercontinental Championship*
Shawn Michaels(c) vs. Marty Jannetty - ***1/2
_May 17, 1993_

*King of the Ring Qualifier*
Mr. Perfect vs. Doink The Clown - ***1/4
_May 24, 1993_

*2 out of 3 Falls*
Marty Jannetty vs. Doink The Clown - ***1/2
_June 21, 1993

_*Vacant Intercontinental Championship*
Razor Ramon vs. Rick Martel - ***1/4
_October 11, 1993_ 


ATF said:


> Ratings for these matches:
> 
> Taker/Jericho 1st time ever
> ADR/Rey 2 out of 3 falls
> ...


?
*** 1/4
***
** 3/4

Bottom 3 are all on the Best of RAW/Smackdown 2011 blu ray.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Jericho was very good for a TV match, I'd give it a ***1/4. If only they had a proper feud with 1 on 1 PPV matches, They could of produced classics.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Undertaker's top 10 matches?

1) Undertaker vs. Michaels at WrestleMania 25. ★★★★★
2) Undertaker vs. Michaels at Bad Blood '97. ★★★★★
3) Undertaker vs. Angle at No Way Out '06. ★★★★★
4) Undertaker vs. Michaels at WrestleMania 26. ★★★★3/4
5) Undertaker vs. Lesnar at No Mercy '02. ★★★★3/4
6) Undertaker vs. Edge at SummerSlam '08. ★★★★3/4
7) Undertaker vs. Triple H at WrestleMania 28. ★★★★3/4
8) Undertaker vs. Angle vs. Rock at Vengeance '02. ★★★★3/4
9) Undertaker vs. Batista at WrestleMania 23. ★★★★1/2
10) Undertaker vs. Mankind at King of the Ring '96. ★★★★1/2


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE WrestleMania 21 - 1st Ever Money in the Bank" Ladder Match: Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Christian vs. Kane*

This is the “creation” of one Chris Jericho, to put these deserving wrestler’s in a Ladder match together with the winner getting a title shot any time, at any show for up to one year. Still holds up as the GOAT MITB Match. Not only were the spots great and innovative, the wrestling was top notch but there was also some storytelling unlike your usual mindless spotfest. Who could forget the AMAZING selling from Chris Benoit. But the MVP of the match was clearly MR. Benjamin who came out looking like a million bucks, Benoit looked like a tough bastard, and Edge shows his first signs of becoming the ultimate opportunist. Nothing beat the original. ****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched the documentary on *Brian Pillman: Loose Cannon* last night. Interesting stuff to say the least. I was too young to really remember anything he did in his career except the very late moments with Goldust (I was 5) so everything was pretty new to me. Never realized how great a football player he was, shame he never made it far in the NFL. Also a shame to hear how the Hollywood Blonds were broken up right as they were gaining steam. It was really cool how they described the Loose Cannon character because I never really understood it. Being on the ignorant side of things I always assumed Brian was just a crazy guy who abused painkillers and died from an overdose. I've had SuperBrawl '96 on tape for years now and I never understood him walking out on the match with Sullivan, but now it's out there. (Y) Totally unaware he had appearances in ECW, so that was pretty interesting. Overall just a really interesting doc that highlights all of his career and really showed he was a pioneer in high flying wrestling and taking your on camera persona to a whole nother level.

Extras on disc 1 are hilarious too. Jim Ross tells a story about Pillman showing him his 18 inch turd. :lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Haven't watched Taker/Mankind KOTR 1996 in a long time, I have their match at the revenge of the match as their best (excluding the HIAC of course).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Mankind PPV:

1. Revenge of the Taker - ****1/4
2. HIAC - ****1/4
3. King of the Ring 96 - ****
4. Buried Alive - ****
5. Survivor Series - ***1/2










1029874646636784657456893737667365436553829020200000999999828372362812342142. SummerSlam - 1/2*

That all their singles PPV matches?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

That spot where Mankind gets smashed against the steps and goes headfirst into the announce table is just sick.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody who doesn't enjoy The Miracle on 34th Street Fight doesn't have a heart...

OR A SOUL 8*D


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> _John Cena vs Rey Mysterio (RAW 7/25/11)_
> 
> What a fucking match, I mean WOW. One of the greatest workers of all time going head to head in a main event with perhaps the greatest WWE MAIN EVENT style worker ever with the WWE Championship on the line. As much as I love Punk-Cena, this should have main evented Summerslam, therefore delaying Punk's return and making it more special, WTF WWE.
> 
> ...


Totally agree. The second Punk/Cena match at Summerslam really made no sense. I agree this match (Cena/Rey Rey) should have main evented Summerslam 2011. Rey didn't really deserve a 90 minute title reign. WTF? This main eventing a PPV would have been badass. Great match. Ive said on here many times I dont really get into star ratings....maybe I dont really know how IDK....but this is one of my fav TV matches the last 5 years or so. Effin wonderful. 

Had it main evented Summerslam I think ADR could have still cashed in at the end...beat Cena (OMG noooooo) at night of champions and still retained again at HiaC and Vengeance so...IDK....his title reign meant something or they at least tried to make it mean something...the fact ADR cashed in at Summerslam and dropped it THE VERY NEXT PPV AND WON IT BACK THE VER NEXT PPV made no sense


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Rise and Fall of ECW was awesome , 2+ hours flew by. 

Can't wait for part two where they discuss the heritage of Tatsu vs. Ryder.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Home sick today. Watching Summerslam 1992. One of my favorite WWE(F) years. Probably because red and yellow were not shoved down my throat and Flair, Savage and Hart had fun title reigns. I think this is an awesome ppv. I was 11 when it happened and just marked out like a dumbass for both title matches. I know most people hate Warrior (Im indifferent....fun character and terrible wrestler) but Savage carred him to his two best matches (this match and WM7) imho. The WM7 match is better no doubt but I really enjoyed the SS match. Looking back though how great would a Savage/Flair rematch for the title been at Wembley as well as Bret/Bulldog? 

Bret V Davey Boy never gets old. I heard after the match Bret went back to the dressing room and Savage hugged him and said that was the best match Ive ever seen. 

PS....Im a grown damn man and to this day Kamala kind of scares the fuck out of me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Home sick today. Watching Summerslam 1992. One of my favorite WWE(F) years. Probably because red and yellow were not shoved down my throat and Flair, Savage and Hart had fun title reigns. I think this is an awesome ppv. I was 11 when it happened and just marked out like a dumbass for both title matches. I know most people hate Warrior (Im indifferent....fun character and terrible wrestler) but Savage carred him to his two best matches (this match and WM7) imho. The WM7 match is better no doubt but I really enjoyed the SS match. Looking back though how great would a Savage/Flair rematch for the title been at Wembley as well as Bret/Bulldog?
> 
> Bret V Davey Boy never gets old. I heard after the match Bret went back to the dressing room and Savage hugged him and said that was the best match Ive ever seen.
> 
> PS....Im a grown damn man and to this day Kamala kind of scares the fuck out of me.


Someone sent this letter into the September 28, 1992 Observer:



> I was at the Summer Slam event live and heard Vince McMahon say on his headset off the show that he was glad the event wasn't broadcast live. They needed three takes on the Diana Hart interview because they kept getting the camera angles wrong. They also lost McMahon's commentary during the Savage-Warrior match.


:side:

One of mt fave events as a kid, mainly 'cos it was freaking WEMBLEY, and of cotse here in the UK, but still love Bret/Bullgog, Savage/Warrior has gone down on my ratings a bit, as has the whole event


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not that big a fan of Bulldog/Bret. Same for their IYH match. Never seen Savage/Warrior from SS. Think I have it on DVD (Warrior set?), but eh, never been bothered to watch it lol.

Damn work has got me almost behind with my WM reviews. WM 15 online today, still to finish WM 20 lol. Only the main event to go. But that's not the point, I was hoping to have had all of the shows reviewed by now . Whole event is middle of the pack on the CAL SCALE atm, but the main event will boost it up higher unless I suddenly hate it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Top Ten Undertaker matches is something I'd have to take a whole day out to try and conjure up. Purposely make things more meticulous than they should be only b/c of who the topic surrounds.


VS Kamala at Summerslam is 1-10


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Top 10 Taker matches? I'm assuming it'd look something along the lines of:

vs HBK @ WM 25
vs HBK @ WM 26
vs HBK @ BB 97
vs Angle NWO 06
vs HHH WM 28
vs HHH WM 27 (imo)
vs Lesnar NM 02
vs Vader vs Austin vs Bret IYH Final 4
vs Batista WM 23
vs Orton Arm 05

vs Edge WM 24 is up there, too.

Might be forgetting a TV match here or there but that sounds roughly accurate.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Batista/Edge, Raw 5/23/2005:* **1/2. Decent, but far from great. Edge got this title opportunity after winning the Gold Rush Tournament, which may just be the best one-night tournament for in-ring quality in WWE history. This one though, wasn't really that awesome. The match was pretty generic at 15 minutes, didn't really have that great of a crowd heat as most of these matches have had, and it really was just a showcase for Batista's raw strenght. They never really had that great chemistry, and to show you how they weren't really great with each other, I tell you this may just be their 2nd best match (2nd to Night Of Champions 2008).

*Batista/HHH, Vengeance 2005:* ****3/4. HERE WE ARE - the long-awaited review of the Batista vs. HHH Hell In A Cell. And my God, it sure as hell lived up to the hype. It was furious, it was brutal, it was bloody, it was HELL. HHH's heel schtick was lovely, and so was Batista as the "underdog" face, as he played the role of the brave and strong dude who was stepping in his enemy's backyard as perfect as they come. The Vegas crowd was pretty nuts for this, as these two were beating the living shit out of each other, which for whatever reason reminded me so much of the XXX/LAX Cage match. Maybe because of the chaos and brutality. HHH handcuffing and striking 'Tista with the barbed wire chair (which was 1st time ever for WWE) was awesome too. This bloodbath of a war was essentially for Batista what the Foley matches were for HHH, Edge and Orton - the creation of a star right there, and the match that defined his career. Easily one of the greatest Hell In A Cells ever, and my runner-up for Match of the Year in 2005 (2nd to the Chamber). AMAZING.

*Batista/JBL, The Great American Bash 2005:* DUD. And we go from one of the best World Title matches ever, to, up to this point, the WORST World Title match ever. Even worse than HHH/Steiner. Why? Because HHH/Steiner was Godawful, but in a perversely entertaining way - the 1st half of that match was boring as shit, but the 2nd was legit hilarious. While this match was boring as shit in the 1st half, and was even more boring in the 2nd one. It was sloppy, it was uninteresting, it was dull, it was way too long (20 fucking minutes that felt like an hour), and it was BOOOOOOORING. The trade from Raw to Smackdown sure as hell started with a "bang", as Batista and JBL showed an impressive amount of chemistry of ZERO, as well as a slow paced, utterly garbageful and paint-dry boring wrestling that ended with one of the worst DQ finishes of all time (yeah, most of them are bad, but this was beyond that). The ending of the Cena/Laurinatis match was better than this one's. If you're a wrestling fan, and you know you're gonna have children, here's the 1st thing you have to say to your kid: "Don't watch Batista vs. JBL from The Great American Bash 2005". Like Jeremy "GOD" Clarkson says, there are some things that are so boring they can put an hyperactive child to sleep. This is one of them.

*NEXT:* The Animal and the rich cowboy redeem themselves from the Great American Trash, a bullrope hangs, and the last PPV apparence of a lying, cheating and stealing legend...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

When someone has such a good body of work as far as classic matches like Taker, Flair, Steamboat, Austin, Bret Hart, HBK, HHH, Foley, Rock (shut up haters), Angle, Jericho....just to name a few.... it's hard to narrow it down to 10 matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF I'm assuming you reviewed the Chamber from 05 already? That's like my favorite match ever. Interested in your review if you don't mind linking me to it (I'm too lazy to search). 

edit Agreed, though there are usually some obvious standouts that belong (i.e. the three Taker/HBK matches).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Retreat to page 373 of this thread to find it


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> When someone has such a good body of work like Taker, Flair, Steamboat, Austin, Bret Hart, HBK, HHH, Foley, Rock (shut up haters), Angle, Jericho....just to name a few.... it's hard to narrow it down to 10 matches.


 ROCK is a really underrated wrestler. The fact that one of his biggest haters praised him in the thread below says a lot. :cena3

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-peoples-champ-rocks-25-greatest-matches.html


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF said:


> Retreat to page 373 of this thread to find it


Thanks. Will edit this post for any comments.

edit Good review. I love that match so much. Been a few years since I've seen it, and reading your comments makes me want to watch it again. I remember that crowd being really pro-HHH. :hb


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH GOD NO.

I went down on ALOT of those matches, so much can change in a few months that it's insane. WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING GIVING X-7 FIVE STARS. Disregard that list please. 

Actually I went up on a lot of them as well. Updated ratings for those matches incoming once I get to the nearest laptop :lol.

:cena3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> OH GOD NO.


 Embrace the hate, you know you want to unk


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> ROCK is a really underrated wrestler. The fact that one of his biggest haters praised him in the thread below says a lot. :cena3
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-peoples-champ-rocks-25-greatest-matches.html



I don't disagre at all and like him or not he has been in a lot of great matches and is one of the biggest stars ever. He probably makes my top 10-15 faves of all time. I just wish he was around more. Im not MAD like a lot of people about it. I get it. He is making crazy money making movies, less chance of injury, etc. That being said Im torn about Mania. I want him to retain vs Cena but I dont think he will. Unless he retains and drops the belt at Extreme Rules? I hear Rock is a go for ER.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> OH GOD NO.
> 
> I went down on ALOT of those matches


Your mouth must be tired yeah? :yum:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> OH GOD NO.
> 
> I went down on ALOT of those matches, so much can change in a few months that it's insane. WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING GIVING X-7 FIVE STARS. Disregard that list please.
> 
> :cena3


GIMMICK POSTER CAUGHT! 

At least when I was a Punk fan in my first few months, I never made a list for his best matches lol.

But seriously, that list is pretty good and accurate other than underrating Fully Loaded 2000. Don't know why you would cheat yourself out of enjoying all those great matches just because you're supposed to be all DA ROID LOLOLOL.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Why the fuck did I have ROCK-BROCK @ **** 3/4*? 

It's legit a top 10 favorite match for me ever, god I can't wait to get back and rectify this injustice.

For the CENATION.

:cena3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KOK, what was your rating to Eddie/HHH for the WWE Title?


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just finished watching SuperBrawl '92 and oh boy, this PPV definitely made up for the dog shit PPVs I had to sit through at the tail end of 1991. Not a single match under 3 stars.

Liger/Pillman was insanely awesome (been awhile since I saw that match and can't believe I forgot how tremendous it was), 2 great tag matches featuring the Dangerous Alliance (Austin/Zbyszko vs. Rhodes/Windham and Eaton/Anderson vs. Steiners), Rude/Steamboat was super good and Sting/Luger was even solid. If all the PPVs are like this from 1992 then I'm in for such a treat and WrestleWar is up next. :mark:

I'm gonna give this PPV




























out of 5.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oliver-94 said:


> ROCK is a really underrated wrestler. The fact that one of his biggest haters praised him in the thread below says a lot. :cena3
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-peoples-champ-rocks-25-greatest-matches.html


That don't mean shit until *I* start praising him .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Why the fuck did I have ROCK-BROCK @ **** 3/4*?
> 
> It's legit a top 10 favorite match for me ever, god I can't wait to get back and rectify this injustice.
> 
> ...


 I also read your first rating on the punk - Rock match at RR and you rated it at 3 stars and a half. I would show the thread but I'm on my phone now. By the way, what's your rating on ROCK - Brock now?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Eddie/Triple H had a title match? When was this?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Eddie/Triple H had a title match? When was this?


The draft show in 04 I think?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Was it good?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Eddie/Triple H had a title match? When was this?


Not a title match, just a 10-15 minute match on the draft Raw show in 2004. 22/3/2004 is the exact date I think.

And yeah, it was good. Just a taste of what they would be capable of in a bigger PPV match with a proper finish, though. Shame it never happened.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Eddie/Triple H had a title match? When was this?


Raw in 2004 sometime. Solid match. Draft day I think.



Choke2Death said:


> Not a title match, just a 10-15 minute match on the draft Raw show in 2004. 22/3/2004 is the exact date I think.


I thought it was a title match? Hadn't the title switched shows or something and Bischoff wanted it back?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH SHIT. 

I don't remember it too well, should give it a watch once the CENA BINGE is over. 

Here's the thing about me and The Roid ; when he came back I didn't really care at all. When he cut that shitty promo at mania I wanted to kill somebody, but when I found out he came back to put over Cena I was super happy despite the quality of his work being really bad. Then he won at Wrestlemania ... Things went downhill from there, but thankfully the injustice will finally be corrected once and for all.

Once I saw his work from earlier this year, there's no way that I could possibly be anything but a hater. He's horrible.

If you read what I say on that post you'll know the list is legit, but I'm being very tongue in cheek with some of the things I'm saying, don't recall much about it but..... Pretty sure It was a half and half praise/troll session. Of course.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Eddie/Triple H had a title match? When was this?


 RAW draft 2004


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I thought it was a title match? Hadn't the title switched shows or something and Bischoff wanted it back?


Nah, I don't recall anything involving titles. Smackdown GM Paul Heyman got drafted to Raw and quit because of that, then Triple H got drafted to Smackdown. Eddie vs HHH was the main event from the get go IIRC.

I still can't figure out why HHH was drafted back to Raw and they moved Booker T and the Dudleyz to SD. It was a complete rip-off and no wonder SD sucked so much in 04.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> OH SHIT.
> 
> I don't remember it too well, should give it a watch once the CENA BINGE is over.
> 
> ...


Bck in the day Rock was one of my favorites, still really like alot of his best matches, but now im not a Rock hater per say, i just want him to kinda go away lol, for me in ring ability is very important when i am watching most matches, and The Rock is horrible now IMHO and he just doesnt entertain or interest me


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, gotta watch this match now if I can find it. 

Yeah, a proper face Eddie/heel HHH program would've been awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's put it this way.....

If The Roid goes over at Wrestlemania, ill be banned very shortly afterwards :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't see Rock winning @ Mania even remotely possible. Thinking with the hostile crowd that match might not go on last and Brock/HHH will close w/Hunter retiring...

Ok, now that my dream is over, Cena's winning in the main event to a chorus of boos and riotous fans.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THANK GOD.

:cena3


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I fully think Cena walks out of Mania with the belt but it wouldnt shock me if Rock retains and drops the belt at ER.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Let's put it this way.....
> 
> If The Roid goes over at Wrestlemania, ill be banned very shortly afterwards :lol


Damn, you're so weak. I put up with the misery of Punk being champion for over a year and yet, I've never been banned a single time in my 20 or so months here.

That aside, Cena IS winning at WM. Maybe once ROCK is gone, you will come to your senses and stop being so pissed about him blessing this miserable company with the presence of his greatness.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cant The Rock get chronic diarrhea on the eve of Mania and they just give the belt to cena (because obviously he is getting the belt), saves the actual spectacle of a match happening then,

Hey whatta i know, the match may be great :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Impossible, the WWE was as perfect as its ever gonna get for me at 3 hours with PUNK as champion, The Roid ruined that for me so I can never forgive him :lol .

I got banned after the Rumble but that was for a stupid, stupid reason anyways. I usually keep my emotions in check at the end but I get really bitchy and sarcastic sometimes.

unk2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> Let's put it this way.....
> 
> If The Roid goes over at Wrestlemania, ill be banned very shortly afterwards :lol


Suddenly have the urge to cheer on The Rock :side: .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What are you going to do if I get banned Cal?

Start a blog?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

IF this is it for HHH this is terrible booking. How about HHH V Punk in a match where if HHH loses he retires and Heyman gets his job (kayfabe)? Also how about Taker/Brock? Taker NEVER beat Brock in what 3-4 matches? Thats a good enough story line right there. At this point its hard to get jacked up about Taker WM matches unless it's Brock, Cena or maybe Rock. I dont see anyone else being a threat to the streak and they have done everything possible at this point. 

I thought I read HHH wants to come back and wrestle full time. Forget where I read that and how legit it was. HHH coming back full time for one last 1-2 year run (with a heel turn) would be badass.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Suddenly have the urge to cheer on The Rock :side: .


:lmao

What are people's thoughts on getting potential MOTYC at Mania?

Viable candidates are really only Lesnar/HHH and Punk/Taker imo.

edit I agree on not getting excited for Taker matches aside from vs Brock/Cena. The bar has been set so high the last 4 years that facing Punk feels like a step down.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SHIELD could certainly pull out another MOTYC. HHH/Lesnar has potential, though that does depend on what you thought of their SS match as to how much potential it has. Undertaker/Punk for me has no middle ground; either I'll love it or I'll think it was pretty crappy. Not sure why I feel that way but I do.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do wonder if Brock hadn't come back, who, if anyone, would HHH 'come back' for. I can just imagine the moment Brock returned he was relishing the moment to come back.

EDIT - Im starting to feel the same as Cal atm in regards to Punk/Taker - it really can go either way, a classic or a well was that it kind of thing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> SHIELD could certainly pull out another MOTYC. HHH/Lesnar has potential, though that does depend on what you thought of their SS match as to how much potential it has. Undertaker/Punk for me has no middle ground; either I'll love it or I'll think it was pretty crappy. Not sure why I feel that way but I do.


Knew I was forgetting one. BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD.

I loved Lesnar/HHH from Summerslam so I think this match has potential to be even better if they're allowed to bend the rules a bit (a ton). Agreed on Taker/Punk. I have a feeling that will be a very polarizing match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk/Taker will be good but I don't think it'll beat his matches with Trips. I hope so though.

If HHH/Lesnar is a big bloody brawl ala Cena/Lesnar, then that could have a shot at being MOTY.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Facing Punk is a step down from the last 4 years in terms of star power for Taker, but as far as the quality of opponent goes this year is a step up. Well, from the last two years anyway. 

Taker/Punk or Shield/Sheamus-Orton-Show is what I'm expecting to steal the show. The former due to the talent involved, especially Taker at Mania where he gives pretty much everything he has. The latter because they've been fucking on the ball in all of their matches, their first one I have as a classic. 

Lesnar/HHH, and I've said this time and time again, it really depends on how far they let them go. Summerslam was a poor match considering the hype and build for it (though it wasn't a "bad" match on it's own). It was way too slow, not very brutal and for a Brock match in 2012, way too back and fourth (I didn't have a problem with that fact after Brock's stomach got drilled into the announce table, but before that it should've been no less than 90% Brock). The match, based on the brawl we got, is definitely going to go back and fourth, so I know I'm going to have a problem with that. As far as the brutality and pacing aspect, that's what this match relies on. If they make this a pre-pg bloody brawl and keep the pace up without getting repetitive in moves, I could maybe forgive the whole back and fourth thing and could maybe see it being MOTN if the matches above lack a bit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH/BROCK or the Shield.

Cena's going to do his best to carry the Roid, but in the end I don't believe the match is going to be very good, Punk-Taker isn't doing it for me anymore for some reason either. 

Everything else isn't getting enough time, but if the shield gets time to work with they'll steal the show guaranteed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I only have hope or care about three matches. ROCK/Cena, Lesnar/HHH and SHIELD vs Orton & co. I might also enjoy Ryback vs Henry if Henry can make it without anymore injuries but that's it. I might as well pretend that the rest of the card doesn't exist.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Im sure Taker/Punk will be sweet. I'd actually like to see Punk end the streak but lets be real that wont happen. Call me crazy I want the streak to end. Either I want Taker to retire or I want someone to end it. Brock ending it would make a lot of sense. Maybe WM30?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After my original distain for the rematch, HHH/Brock has got my interest now, i just hope its an all out war and they dont hold anything back, hope they just all bring the kitchen sink (literally lol), still hope Lesnar wins but ive still got the feeling HHH will get the win...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Im sure Taker/Punk will be sweet. I'd actually like to see Punk end the streak but lets be real that wont happen. Call me crazy I want the streak to end. Either I want Taker to retire or I want someone to end it. Brock ending it would make a lot of sense. Maybe WM30?


I doubt they'd let Brock end the streak since he's pissed everybody off backstage a few times, plus he's a part timer and it wouldn't really benefit him. He's already a monster heel.

I'd like to see the streak end too just because it would be an amazing moment. I'm not sure who should do it though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Wrestlemania this year is just depressing really. The only thing I feel hyped about is The Shield match and the only thing I truly care about is the fact that this is most likely Triple H's last match ever. The rest can go fuck. I'm going to watch Rock/Cena I and HHH/Brock I before the event to get ready for those two matches. Even though my interest has died after their awesome promo 2 weeks ago, I still think Rock/Cena will surprise a lot of people, especially if Cena plays on the fact that he's desperate to win during the match. That has the makings of a great story imo. Brock/HHH will have me on the edge of my seat purely because with every near fall I get one step closer to witnessing the retirement of my all time favourite ever.  Taker/Punk I just don't care about and the feud has been laughable to say the least.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Rawk said:


> Facing Punk is a step down from the last 4 years in terms of star power, but as far as the quality of opponent goes this year is a step up. Well, from the last two years anyway.


How dare you. 

Kayfabe wise it feels like a step down. To casuals (and huge HHH marks such as myself) I think that's what matters most. :side:

Still hoping for a quality match, though. I just feel the winner is even more obvious this year given the decline in star power of Taker's opponent.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Im sure Taker/Punk will be sweet. I'd actually like to see Punk end the streak but lets be real that wont happen. Call me crazy I want the streak to end. Either I want Taker to retire or I want someone to end it. Brock ending it would make a lot of sense. Maybe WM30?


I don't see a part-timer like Brock breaking the streak. I think Cena would be the only option, but I think they'd have to turn him heel. Imagine what an awesome heel Cena would be if he embraced the hate and beat Taker. You'd get one of the most hated individuals since... well, Cena now. At least he'd be a heel.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena ending the streak and turning heel would be awesome. Then he can grin at everyone like he does now only it would be a hell of a lot better since it's a heelish, gloating grin.

:cena3


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Cena ending the streak and turning heel would be awesome. Then he can grin at everyone like he does now only it would be a hell of a lot better since it's a heelish, gloating grin.
> 
> :cena3


Dude would receive NUCLEAR heat. Him standing there with that shit-eating grin getting shat on (rightfully so, for once) would be fucking awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Nobody should end the streak. It isn't a guarantee that a MEGA star will be made and could end up backfiring if the wrong person does it. If Cena ended the streak I honestly think a ton of people would straight up stop watching. That's just a bridge too far.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a firm believer that Cena doesn't need to go heel until he comes out to ZERO reaction. No more "lets go Cena", no more "Cena sucks"...... It's like people know that chanting negative things towards Cena is going to keep his gimmick alive but Cena does so many things to piss them off that they have to cheer, and that's the reason why he's one of the GOAT in my book and honestly I hope he doesn't turn until he NEEDS to.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Trips is winning so theres nothing to worry about. You think he is retiring before 30? We are talking about THE ASS KICKER here.

Things I'm looking forward to at Mania:

Shields match 
Orton heel turn
Rock losing
Fandango/Jericho

That's about it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think they'd stop watching if they turned Cena heel from it. The storyline would be perfect. If they had Cena end the streak yet remain the same awful character he is now as if it was no big feat, then yeah I could see people giving up on the product.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm a firm believer that Cena doesn't need to go heel until he comes out to ZERO reaction. No more "lets go Cena", no more "Cena sucks"...... It's like people know that chanting negative things towards Cena is going to keep his gimmick alive but Cena does so many things to piss them off that they have to cheer, and that's the reason why he's one of the GOAT in my book and honestly I hope he doesn't turn until he NEEDS to.


That's true. People that hate Cena don't seem to understand that chanting "Cena sucks" isn't going to stop them putting him in the main event. As long as he gets a reaction, whether it be positive or negative, he'll be in the main event.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips to retire at 29, Taker at 30 and Rock at 31. I don't see it as a stretch at all to believe this is it for the Game. It would most likely also mean a HOF induction at Mania 30 to round things off. I honestly believe he's retiring, I really do.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I doubt they'd let Brock end the streak since he's pissed everybody off backstage a few times, plus he's a part timer and it wouldn't really benefit him. He's already a monster heel.
> 
> I'd like to see the streak end too just because it would be an amazing moment. I'm not sure who should do it though.


Good point. Last year would hae been a great way to end it. When HBK hit SCM and Trips hit that pedigree I thought for a second the streak was over. Had that happened and HHH ending it and turning heel again at some point and bragging about ending the streak a lot (think Jericho bragging abou beating Austin and Rock in the same night) would be an awesome final asshole heel run for HHH to cap off his career....which I want to see. That promo he cut a couple weeks before Mania last year where he said all of this will be mineleads me to believe at some point Trips will turn heel again. 

Cena could end it I guess but I'd hate to see that. Rock maybe? But like Brock a lot of guys in the back can't stand him. Maybe Punk but he lacks the mainstream appeal. Hell IDK.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm still not sure on whether this will be HHH's last match or not. They've set it up pretty well because Lesnar is a great opponent to end Trips' career, but you could still see him pulling it out of the bag and winning. I'll be marking for DA GAME during the match, that's for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> Just finished watching SuperBrawl '92 and oh boy, this PPV definitely made up for the dog shit PPVs I had to sit through at the tail end of 1991. Not a single match under 3 stars.
> 
> Liger/Pillman was insanely awesome (been awhile since I saw that match and can't believe I forgot how tremendous it was), 2 great tag matches featuring the Dangerous Alliance (Austin/Zbyszko vs. Rhodes/Windham and Eaton/Anderson vs. Steiners), Rude/Steamboat was super good and Sting/Luger was even solid. If all the PPVs are like this from 1992 then I'm in for such a treat and WrestleWar is up next. :mark:
> 
> ...


Really sets the tone for the upcoming year. Once WCW initially decided to conjure up the Dangerous Alliance things almost instantly got better. Almost has to remain thanks to Starrcade '91 popping up in the middle here and we all know that Battlebowl schmoz wasn't going to create any magic. _(although, admittedly, I am a sucker for that match. It's totally stupid, but a guilty pleasure. Perhaps I just like seeing Sting triumph.)_ It's when you get to Beach Blast '92. Lets see if you can contain your excitement. One of the best PPVs ever, for my money.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar losing seems like such an awful outcome.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Good point. Last year would hae been a great way to end it. When HBK hit SCM and Trips hit that pedigree I thought for a second the streak was over. Had that happened and HHH ending it and turning heel again at some point and bragging about ending the streak a lot (think Jericho bragging abou beating Austin and Rock in the same night) would be an awesome final asshole heel run for HHH to cap off his career....which I want to see. That promo he cut a couple weeks before Mania last year where he said all of this will be mineleads me to believe at some point Trips will turn heel again.
> 
> Cena could end it I guess but I'd hate to see that. Rock maybe? But like Brock a lot of guys in the back can't stand him. Maybe Punk but he lacks the mainstream appeal. Hell IDK.


Yeah, for a split second I thought it was over. But then i was like "he's gonna kick out of Sweet Chin and the Pedigree?!" And then of course he did and that was that.

I'd actually love for Punk to end it, just for all this forum to blow up. Since all the Punk haters would be mad as fuck, all the Punk marks would be literally crying with joy and everyone else would be shocked as fuck too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They've roped me into wanting Triple H to retire because Brock losing would be the WORST. 

I mean..... DAMN.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> They're roped me into wanting Triple H to retire because Brock losing would be the WORST.
> 
> I mean..... DAMN.


This. Seriously, Lesnar should win, and this is coming from a Starbuck-level HHH mark.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Lesnar losing seems like such an awful outcome.


Which is why I'm starting to think THIS is the primary reason why he didn't fight Taker. Think about it. Brock vs. Taker means an automatic loss. If protecting Lesnar is the aim here then putting him against HHH is by far the better option because he can go over.

Starbuck level HHH mark?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, Brock really shouldn't lose. His credibility would sink a bit. If he had beaten Cena last year (which he should have, that was just poor booking) and beaten Trips at Summerslam, then him losing at 'Mania wouldn't be nearly as bad. But if he loses now, he'll be 1-2 and that's hardly a good record for the ultimate monster heel to have.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can't think of a single reason why HHH SHOULDN'T retire at WM. Wrestled everyone, won everything there is to win, tried his hand at the streak 3 times and failed... plus he has pretty much been retired for the last few years outside a couple of matches. Might as well call it a day, not like he's the big attraction Undertaker is at WM or anything. Let him retire and concentrate 100% on his office duties, where he might have some kind of chance to change the company for the better as time goes on and Vince let's him run more and more shit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

For selfish reasons I don't want him to retire, obviously. But I fully understand that Brock really shouldn't be losing this match. I'm torn. 

:HHH :brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lesnar definitely needs to win.

And I will never again buy into a nearfall in Taker's matches after witnessing him kick out of that SCM/Pedigree combo. I was so sure the match would end with him winning but then that double finish happened and my heart was beating thinking that the streak was over but no, Deadman made it through another epic classic as the winner. I certainly wont buy into CM PUNK of all people being near ending it but Cena might just do that if they have their match next year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fandango at WrestleMania please.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trips is my childhood ICON....

I feel dirty because I want him to lose, maybe because I care about the future of the company more than my own selfish reasons.

Well THAT and the fact that Brock's a top 3 favorite of mine all time.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

HHH is winning 100%.

However Brocks getting a win back though at SS either beating Punk or Orton.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena locking in the STF on Taker at Mania and Taker's hand dangling in the air like he's about to tap has the ability to make the world shit bricks lol. Can't wait :mark:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, if they don't go with Taker/BROCK then I hope we get Taker/Cena @ Mania before Taker retires for good. Atmosphere would be insane.

edit FUCK all this talk about the SCM -> Pedigree combo from last year is making me want to watch that match again.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> What are you going to do if I get banned Cal?
> 
> Start a blog?


I love this on-going joke. ''Since when did Cal have a blog?'' :lol

Anyway to add something to the discussion, I'm really not anticipated for WrestleMania. Can't believe we're only two weeks away, the build has been awful, one of the worst WrestleMania builds of all time. The show shouldn't be that bad, certainly won't be as bad like shows like WrestleMania 27, but the terrible build and mediocre shows heading into Mania haven't got me invested at all. At the moment, the only match I'm looking forward to is The Shield's match, Brock/HHH I have an interest in due to the stipulations, but the rest? I honestly don't care. Ziggler cashing-in and become World Champion would really save the show for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Focusing on just the build up for each match, here's what I think of them so far:

Rock/Cena II- When their promo a few weeks ago first happened, I didn't really like it, but then with the video package and watching the promo back a few times, I've actually warmed up to it. I'm still not jumping out of my chair in excitement, and we'll see what happens tonight. It's hurt though by the fact Rock missed the last couple of weeks, but that could also be potentially a blessing in disguise (so the feud didn't get burned out two weeks to go into Mania). Needless to say, I'm looking forward to tonight.

Taker/Punk- This feud I like, and I think it's getting hated on a bit since it's the build up for Mania, and the fact they've seemed to build it off of Bearer's death, but the feud itself is good. It's an old-school style Taker feud with the urn at the center, with a personal touch considering Bearer died. Is it what I wanted for Taker/Punk's build to Mania? No, and do I think it's the best build going for Mania? No, but it's the best of the big three and despite last week's mediocre build up for it due to the time they got, I'm looking forward to this week.

Lesnar/HHH- No interest at all in the build. The feud has been severely disappointing outside of the initial brawl (which despite being a great brawl, I had problems with it) and the Heyman promo two weeks ago. HHH's promo a few weeks ago was bland and did little for me, and the whole contract signing last week watching it back was terrible. The no holds barred stip is fine, but the HHH retirement stip and if he loses doesn't have anywhere near the impact HBK and Flair's did, considering HHH barely wrestles nowadays anyway. The prospect of Heyman potentially gaining HHH's COO spot is what gave me a glimpse of hope for the build up, but now I don't think there's anything they could do to get me interested. Oh well, I'm sure HHH is winning anyway so it wouldn't have mattered.

Shield/GiantIrishVipers- This has been the best build for Mania by far. It's not even close. Shield just being their bad-ass selves and all the tension between Show and Sheamus with Orton being the pacemaker has been very entertaining. Hoping we see tonight on Raw or on SD that the Shield can finally take advantage of the team's lack of team spirit and gets to beat them all down. Enjoying the feud quite a bit so far.

Swagger/Del Rio- ZEB. MOTHERFUCKING. COLTER. This feud was initially the best built Mania feud when he was getting proper mic time and the center of everything. Now that they've turned the focus more to Swagger and Del Rio, the feud has dropped off a lot for me. I still think it's and one of the better feuds for Mania despite that, but it's definitely not where it once was. 

Henry/Ryback- Good for what they're going for. Not much talking, but it doesn't need it. They're putting these two over as indestructible power houses, and the feud is anticipation for them colliding at Mania. Good work to this point. Even teasing well with the Smackdown match.


Edit: Damn, I type out this post (while taking a quick break to get some food) and you all make like a thousand posts.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> HHH is winning 100%.
> 
> However Brocks getting a win back though at SS either beating Punk or Orton.


What makes you so sure?



Starbuck said:


> Cena locking in the STF on Taker at Mania and Taker's hand dangling in the air like he's about to tap has the ability to make the world shit bricks lol. Can't wait :mark:.


Oh jeez, I think if Cena made Taker tap then the whole IWC would explode and we'd have to trek through the ruins after. Seriously, think of the backlash.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd like to see HHH, Taker and Rock all retired. The E just doesnt have the star power to allow that to happen right now. 

Speaking of star power I just got done watching Angle/Taker NWO 2006. One of my fave matches ever. The last 10 mins are just wonderful. That counter into the Ankle lock from the choke slam? Are you kidding me? Good shit. This should have been a Mania match. Oh well.

I found an error though. At the start of the match they said Taker and Angle have never tapped out. Wrong....Angle tapped to the Rock (of all people) in his piss poor excuse of a sharp shooter at Survivor Series in 2001.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Triple H gonna lose and retire at Mania just so he can be like his boys

:flair3:hbk2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm fully planning on going to Mania XXX and Taker/Cena is the match I want to see above all else. There's also a high possibility of me attending Summerslam 2014 since my family are planning to visit the other half of the family in San Diego during the Summer and my parents nicely offered to take us all to Summerslam in LA. I have no clue what matches would be on that card though. God knows.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Oh jeez, I think if Cena made Taker tap then the whole IWC would explode and we'd have to trek through the ruins after. Seriously, think of the backlash.


I don't want Taker to actually tap. Fuck no lol. I'm just talking about the moment and the atmosphere during that moment where it's running through everyone's mind...is Taker going to tap to Cena here? Will be a markout moment for sure.

EDIT - Whoops, double post.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I'm fully planning on going to Mania XXX and Taker/Cena is the match I want to see above all else. There's also a high possibility of me attending Summerslam 2014 since my family are planning to visit the other half of the family in San Diego during the Summer and my parents nicely offered to take us all to Summerslam in LA. I have no clue what matches would be on that card though. God knows.


You'll be in TLK COUNTRY. 

I still plan on attending Summerslam this year, and likely next year as well.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Also, let's be real, what's the bigger headline coming out of Mania? Lesnar winning or Triple H retiring?

Burying people even in retirement!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena ending the streak is something I'd accept if Cena turns heel off of it. Cena making Taker tap to end the streak is going too far. 

And HHH winning is where I'm certain they're going, with a retirement after a third match with Lesnar at Summerslam or Survivor Series or even maybe Hell in a Cell if they want to try and elevate that PPV, which is where Lesnar wins and sends HHH packing.

The whole retirement stip is just to give them more to work with and help draw people in for the build up.



> Also, let's be real, what's the bigger headline coming out of Mania? Lesnar winning or Triple H retiring?
> 
> Burying people even in retirement!


:lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That's right, you live in SD. Hopefully it all comes together. Haven't visited my uncle in a few years and I get to go to Summerslam for free as well which I can't complain about.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wrestlemania 30 I'm probably not gonna be able to go to, but I'm praying for Taker/Cena and Brock/Rock. And hey, you never know. I might win the lottery!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't see why HHH would retire at any event that isn't WM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nostalgia said:


> I love this on-going joke. ''Since when did Cal have a blog?'' :lol


It was funny until people outside of the inside joke started saying it with no real idea as to why it was said .

ELITE people, new things need to be thought up to mock me!

Wait... no I'm fine with nothing being said . Make fun of the Texan instead.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't see why HHH would retire at any event that isn't WM.


HHH's ego is so big he doesn't want to put his retirement on a PPV where nobodies like Taker and Flair retired. He wants his own PPV that will be remembered forever as the event where DA GAME, DA CEREBRAL ASSASSIN, DA KING OF KINGS ENDED HIS ILLUSTRIOUS GOAT CAREER!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Aren't you going to this years Mania, Rawk? 

Yeah, Trips deserves to go out at Mania. It's just shit that the build has been so half-assed. The sheetz are saying that we're going to get a bunch of videos from his friends and family etc on Raw tonight to put the whole thing over the top. Who knows, maybe they'll be able to salvage it yet although I doubt it. Fucking retards.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Rawk said:


> HHH's ego is so big he doesn't want to put his retirement on a PPV where nobodies like Taker and Flair retired. He wants his own PPV that will be remembered forever as the event where DA GAME, DA CEREBRAL ASSASSIN, DA KING OF KINGS ENDED HIS ILLUSTRIOUS GOAT CAREER!


:lmao I'LL PRETEND I'M NOT ANGRY WITH YOU AND MOVE ON.

edit F5 to Steph and I'm back on board.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Beating Brock will be Trips redemption. The only reason to do a 2nd match was to give Trips the win back.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Aren't you going to this years Mania, Rawk?


Indeed I am.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Been talking back and forth with my friends that I'm going to Mania with, is the HOF worth $100 for a ticket?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This years HOF is. Probably going to be the best part of the whole weekend tbh. 

@Rawk, at least ur getting to go to something then. Can't be that bad.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> Been talking back and forth with my friends that I'm going to Mania with, is the HOF worth $100 for a ticket?


If you can afford it, go for it. This class especially!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

-Mystery- said:


> Been talking back and forth with my friends that I'm going to Mania with, is the HOF worth $100 for a ticket?


Can't really say for certain, but if there was ever a HOF class to go to, this year's would be it. 

I'm not going though. No disrespect intended to the legends, but I just don't think I'd be able to sit through it, especially guys like Backlund and Sammartino who, with all due respect, I've seen very very little of their careers and wouldn't be able to connect with them at all.



> @Rawk, at least ur getting to go to something then. Can't be that bad.


Oh absolutely. Even though I do feel we could've gotten much much better this year, I'm trying to remain optimistic, even for the Lesnar/HHH match. But hey, even if every match sucks, I'm going with my two brothers and it should be a blast anyway.

Also I'm very glad my first ever Taker experience live will be against my favorite wrestler currently... even if it wasn't necessarily the match I wanted most for Taker (or Punk).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Foley to do his speech as all 3 faces :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I say the HOF is worth it no matter what. I've been to 4 and enjoyed every single one of them. It's a nice way to spend the night before Mania and offers you further insight into the WWE and superstars themselves. You get to see them at a different level than you usually do. They also play hype videos during the breaks and when you're sitting there just one night away from the event itself, you can just feel the buzz in the air from fans and the stars themselves. It's an awesome feeling. I'd definitely go if it were me and I had the money.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Clap for da gem.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Money isn't really an issue cause $100 seems like a pretty fair price for something that could potentially be "once in a lifetime" for my friends and I. My only thing is sometimes the speeches are hit and miss or often go on way too long. However, Foley's speech alone will likely be worth the price of admission. 

It's basically $100 on the HOF or $100 on booze and debauchery in the city.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 9th October 2000 - Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac*

We're now well into the Triple H Benoit feud during 2000, though the match at No Mercy has yet to be officially booked. No one on either team likes each other here, as Triple H and Jericho show that by pushing each other before the match stars. X-Pac even pats The Game on the back during his entrance despite them being on opposing teams.

Triple H and Benoit begin the match with high strikes to each other, before Triple H hits a suplex and a neckbreaker. Jericho tags himself in and works on Benoit before HHH returns the favour and tags himself in. Benoit sells really well during this period, with Jericho hitting a big time bulldog too. Benoit finally comes back and gets a few vicious suplexes in before tagging in X-Pac. He gets the traditional 'X-Pac heat' and works on Jericho in the corner with some nice kicks before Y2J counters the Bronco Buster with a clothesline. Both men make the tag and the match descends into an all out brawl. HHH accidently strikes X-Pac and looks visibly distraught, before Benoit almost steels in with a German suplex. HHH goes to the top rope, before Jericho and X-Pac clash on the ropes and Triple H falls from the turnbuckle and Benoit pins him for the win.

A pretty average match here, not helped by a very poor finish. Even J.R and King didn't know what had happened when Benoit got the win. It didn't really help anyone. Some ok action during the middle, Benoit and HHH showing glimpses of good chemistry but not yet having the time to show it off well. The bickering between HHH and Y2J was fun, but otherwise this was a pretty forgetful match.

***1/4*

*Smackdown 12th October 2000 - Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn*

Who'd have thunk it? The second, yes second Perry Saturn match reviewed during this project. He teams with Benoit to take on HHH and Road Dogg. Triple H and Benoit start it off and again they begin with big strikes to each other in the corner, before Trips gets on top by stomping Benoit and hitting the high knee. He tags in Road Dogg and he hits some unorthodox offense before Benoit comes back with a suplex and a backbreaker. Benoit looking very focused and getting good heat. He and Saturn isolate Road Dogg with some aggressive shots, before Road Dogg rolls out of the way of Saturn's attempted moonsault and tags in The Game, where they precede to double team Saturn. Triple H gets ready to win the match while Benoit takes out Road Dogg on the outside with a steel chair. Triple H wins it with a Pedigree but Benoit locks him in the Crossface as officials try to pull him off. Triple H sells it well with loud screams. 

A pretty lackluster match but it's main purpose was to continue the HHH/Benoit feud which is now into full swing. The crowd has been well on HHH's side throughout this feud but Benoit has looked right on his level.

***1/4*

Two pretty poor matches but No Mercy is now very close, and in the next entry we have an intriguing fatal 4-way match involving both men, before they go one on one at the PPV.

*So Far:
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4*​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Booze and debauchery you can have whenever you want. HOF, especially this one, is a once in a lifetime thing. Besides, if you get bored during the speeches just go buy some booze and you're sorted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> It was funny until people outside of the inside joke started saying it with no real idea as to why it was said .
> 
> ELITE people, new things need to be thought up to mock me!
> 
> Wait... no I'm fine with nothing being said . Make fun of the Texan instead.


Mike has done nothing wrong. Except for not having a problem with Kofi Kingston. :|


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Like KOK, Trips was my childhood icon. Started watching in late 1998, and a friend and I got hold of Summerslam 98, and that ladder match with the Rock had me hooked. I was so big into the DX army, with the Outlaws and X-Pac. Then he turned heel and made me hate him. He may only been face for a year, but that was all the time I needed.

THEN I missed wrestling for about seven years, came back around summer of 2008, spent the next 4+ years catching up, and Trips is still my favorite of all time. 

Now, the right thing is for Brock to go overat 29, Trips to get his big farewell the next night, go into the Hall of Fame at 30, then return and become the biggest heel authority figure ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Mike has done nothing wrong. Except for not having a problem with Kofi Kingston. :|


Nothing wrong except having no problem with Kofi... whole sentence is an oxymoron!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody actually LIKES Kofi Kingston?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Nothing wrong except having no problem with Kofi... whole sentence is an oxymoron!


It all dawned on me the moment my finger slammed down on the period key.

the man must be stopped.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs Rob Van Dam (RAW 6/26/06) : *****

Great BIG TIME RAW main event match here. Cena and Rob Van Dam for some reason have pretty good chemistry and they never fail to get it done in the ring. There were one or two transitions that were pretty sloppy (It's RVD FFS) but it doesn't really hinder the match all that much. Not as good as the ONS match as that one is a little better, but I thought this was extremely, extremely solid for a RAW 2006 match.

Watching the Cena injury match against Kennedy now. FUCK YOU KENNEDY.

I hate that guy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always preferred that match to their ONS affair. Good 7 minute back and forth match. It's an extra on the Vengeance 2006 bonus disc. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's a really, really good TV match.

Cena-Kennedy however? Complete fucking garbage. Sure, Cena gets hurt in the opening moments which throws of the match completely due to that dumb fuck Kennedy, but that's no excuse for this being a complete and utter DUD of a match. Kennedy can't work a decent control segment worth fucking shit. Never liked the guy EVER. Not ONCE. 

Gonna check out Cena-Taker from 10/9/06 now. Should be decent at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Kennedy back from about 2005 - 2008. When he went face things sort of soured. He was like Kofi for me. The first years I thought they were pretty cool. Something new on the block. Then the moment I wised up and realized they were utter garbage between the ropes I want nothing to do with them. Kennedy has had some good segments at least. I know Cal loves em, but Kennedy's series vs Undertaker didn't do TOO much for me. No Mercy is pretty good, First Blood is their best, & Last Ride was decent. Off the top of my head the only other good Kennedy match I can think of is vs Batista from Royal Rumble '07. How that match actually ended up working out well _still_ surprises me to this day. Batista wasn't even good heading into that match either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mid-06 to Mid-07 between injuries is the only time Kennedy was good, and he was pretty fucking good during that time too. Great matches with Undertaker, Matt Hardy, Chris Benoit etc and got some good stuff out of Batista (who was blowing chunks at the time until he got to the RTWM in 07).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

From the time that he got back post injury until The Undertaker feud started, Batista was ATROCIOUS.

That series with Booker T is one of the most shameful things I've ever had to sit through in my life. To think that Survivor Series 2006 featured Benoit being paired with that piece of shit Chavo while at the same time the main event being Batista vs Booker T?

Just realized how bad that show is. WOW.

*** 3/4* for Cena-Taker by the way. The chemistry is there and I'm praying we get it at Wrestlemania XXX.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

During Kennedy's hot streak? I'll buy that. Until I see otherwise. It was the height of my interest in him so as memory goes, bound to possibly think it may hold up. At least the Benoit match following No Mercy should. Can't remember when he works vs Mysterio. Well he does in latter '07 too on a Smackdown right before Survivor Series '07 and I recall liking it. Forgot about liking Kennedy vs HBK matches too.

Batista didn't get tolerable for me till 2007 rolled around. Only exception was vs Trips HIAC & one of those tags vs MNM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Forgot about Kennedy matches with Rey. More good stuff there.

Wasn't that high on the HBK matches outside of the first Raw in HD one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck Kennedy, I never bought into his "MIC SKILLS" either. 

Just because you're an obnoxious little twat doesn't mean you're good on the stick (SEE: THE JIZ) .

Speaking of The Undertaker here for a second, is it safe to say that he's a guy who is so good that he never really had a "prime" per se? Think about it for a second ; you have the 05-10 period where he was consistently killing it and wrestling MOTY contenders seemingly every month, then you have his last two matches as a part timer being fantastic, then you have 97 in which he participated in the GOAT match along with some other AWESOME matches (IYH GZ, Summerslam, ONO, IYH FF, The Vader series, etc).

It's a question that crosses my mind alot as I can't really decide what I'd consider to be Taker's Prime in terms of an in-ring performer. Character wise I'd go with 2002 BIG EVIL, but I'm not sure about in the ring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Forgot about Kennedy matches with Rey. More good stuff there.
> 
> Wasn't that high on the HBK matches outside of the first Raw in HD one.


Had three matches, right? I could take the time in watching them. idk. As far as I know for now, they were entertaining. Armageddon match was a bit of a surprise at how much I liked it the last time I saw it.



KingOfKings said:


> Fuck Kennedy, I never bought into his "MIC SKILLS" either.
> 
> Just because you're an obnoxious little twat doesn't mean you're good on the stick (SEE: THE JIZ) .
> 
> ...


Attribute that to Undertaker always finding ways to adapt. It isn't some fancy way Michael Cole or JR used on commentary to put Taker over. It's factual. Guy worked insanely hard from 1996 - today. No matter if it was all year long or one match a year. Moment he dropped the slow, methodical way of working in the early 90's + getting every god damn big man around, good or bad, he really got to show the world where his capabilities were at.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker's prime in the ring for me was 2005-2009. Feud with Orton had quality matches throughout. Had the GOAT World Title match against Angle at NWO. Match with Henry at Mania sucked, and so did most his matches with Khali but he did get the best match out of Khali possible in that LMS. Kennedy matches were good-great, RR 07 finish, NWO 07 main event and WM23 with Batista were all epic. Had a great match on TV with Finlay, and the Batista cage was great, even more impressive considering he was injured for that. Came back and had a sucky match with Henry, but his feud with Batista kept up in two awesome matches at CS and SVS. Went onto his feud with Edge with all quality matches. Even their worst, the TLC match, was still good and fun. In that he also had a great match with Kane on SD and even a good one with Festus. Had a top 20 match with Edge at Summerslam in HIAC, had an awesome series with Big Show for the rest of the year (bar SVS), and then went into his match with HBK at WM25 which is the GOAT for me. 2005-2009 I think I could count on one hand how many bad matches Taker had for those 5 years. vs. Henry at Unforgiven, vs. Big Show at SVS, and vs. Khali at JD/whenever else he fought him bar the LMS, which was decent (though any match against Khali shouldn't count anyway). Maybe Henry at WM22, though I don't know if I'd call that just extremely underwhelming or truly bad. 

After he returned at Summerslam 09, he wasn't the same. His matches against CM Punk were mediocre-good at best, and his matches as World champion, save maybe the Mysterio match at Royal Rumble, were good at best, which considering the talent he got to work with it was kinda disappointing. Had another classic with HBK at Mania, and had a few decent matches after that, one awesome match with CM Punk which is probably his best match since it (another reason I'm looking forward to Taker/Punk). 2011 and 2012 he only had one match each year so it's tough to say. He gave incredible performances but the matches themselves I'm not quite as high on as others.

As far as character wise goes, Big Evil or Ministry Taker wins this, though Big Evil takes it in the mic category.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'm fully planning on going to Mania XXX and Taker/Cena is the match I want to see above all else. There's also a high possibility of me attending Summerslam 2014 since my family are planning to visit the other half of the family in San Diego during the Summer and my parents nicely offered to take us all to Summerslam in LA. I have no clue what matches would be on that card though. God knows.


Nice. (Y) Still my dream to go to a WrestleMania one day, and I have family in America too as it happens, I have a aunty and cousin in Texas so if a future WrestleMania is held in Texas again I could see them. Haven't seen them since they left England for America like 12 years ago. 



-Mystery- said:


> Been talking back and forth with my friends that I'm going to Mania with, is the HOF worth $100 for a ticket?


With the good class this year, I'd say definitely. Wish I could go. 



HayleySabin said:


> Mike has done nothing wrong. Except for not having a problem with Kofi Kingston. :|


Who's Mike. :|


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of Taker, I'm pumped up because I'm getting closer to the Angle/Taker saga in my WHC project :mark:

2006 seems like a good year for the WHC, with 2006 Rey (aka the high-flyer version of 1985 Ric Flair) and whatnot, let's see what comes out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mike is THE TEXAN.

EDIT: Don't be expecting anything from Rey's title run. He got lumped with some real turd before losing the belt to a turd. Maybe 2 matches during his reign worth seeing (Vs Orton SD, Vs JBL... JD?).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Mysterio vs Booker from GAB.

jeez, Finlay vs Chuck Palumbo Belfast Brawl 6/6/08 was utterly flat. Their first match on 5/23/08 was probably Palumbo's best in WWE for a good long time, if not ever, so anticipating what they'll do with a gimmick attacted led me to believe it might have been worth seeing. Hardly. It was the shortest of their three matches and merely there. *1/2. So far it has been the weakest Finlay WWE match to date.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

MVP and Kennedy really brought more interest in Smackdown for me. Then Kennedy went to RAW and MVP turned face and we all see how that went.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I never really liked Kennedy. Wasn't good in the ring and I never got the hype for him on the mic, sure he could talk decently, but I don't think he was this amazing mic worker that some people on the forum made him out to be. 

Apparently he's one of Pyro's favorite wrestlers, Pyro said he HATED the moment when Edge took his MITB from him when Kennedy got injured - and yet I didn't mind that moment at all.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If ** 1/2* is your weakest match then you're doing pretty well for yourself.

Just watched three of the four Cena-Taker matches with the 2004 one incoming ATM. 8/5/03 is an excellent, excellent match with some of the best psychology I've ever seen used by an early John Cena (OLD SCHOOL SHOULDER WORK). If you take that match apart it's actually a pretty basic contest, but they just so happen to make it AWESOME.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MVP lost appeal for me even before going face. Or before the losing streak. All the fun he brought faded away by the time early 2008 came around. Maybe it's b/c his character was so lost when Matt Hardy got injured. He had to float around till Hardy returned and once he did their program was quickly squashed to FINALLY give Hardy the pay off.

Finlay got most of his opponents to measure up so far. Up next, Finlay vs Morrison 6/13/08. iirc it isn't too long but it could be solid. Finlay might destroy the pretty boy looks. Ha. I miss Morrison.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Rey Mysterio, Jr. obviously has his best days behind him. Hard to argue with him being one of the top babyfaces of all-time though. He really did become a master of the T.V. match. In a sea of boredom, you could always count on Rey to create the rejuvenating spark to wake the crowd back up. That is impressive in & of itself but then you look at his body of work (sans the dreadful Filthy Animal days in WCW) & it's a shame to see his body breaking down on him the way it has. I would not be disappointed to be able to see him for awhile longer, just as a selfish fan. Definitely going to be a sure fire Hall of Famer.

I never thought he would work in WWE. I was wrong. I am honestly not a big fan of his Royal Rumble win or winning the World title as my suspension of disbelief went out the window but no one would question his work, I don't think. So great matches over the years & one of the big reasons, I feel, that Lucha & Cruiserweight wrestling in general took off in the United States.

I don't think that I really said anything revolutionary here but sometimes I think people forget just how good Mysterio really is.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I never really liked Kennedy. Wasn't good in the ring and I never got the hype for him on the mic, sure he could talk decently, but I don't think he was this amazing mic worker that some people on the forum made him out to be.
> 
> Apparently he's one of Pyro's favorite wrestlers, Pyro said he HATED the moment when Edge took his MITB from him when Kennedy got injured - and yet I didn't mind that moment at all.


His ring work was really sloppy but it looked like he was making improvement (until the series of his injuries along with injuring people). I also like to see the development of wrestlers first hand (like Batista when he was on Smackdown) so he caught my interest cause I wanted to see how good he could become.



HayleySabin said:


> MVP lost appeal for me even before going face. Or before the losing streak. All the fun he brought faded away by the time early 2008 came around. Maybe it's b/c his character was so lost when Matt Hardy got injured. He had to float around till Hardy returned and once he did their program was quickly squashed to FINALLY give Hardy the pay off.
> 
> Finlay got most of his opponents to measure up so far. Up next, Finlay vs Morrison 6/13/08. iirc it isn't too long but it could be solid. Finlay might destroy the pretty boy looks. Ha. I miss Morrison.


That Matt Hardy feud was great from what I remember but yea after that the only thing I really remember MVP doing was tag teaming with Mark Henry which went nowhere.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Was a fan of MVP up until that awful losing streak angle they gave him. When he turned face I couldn't get into him and he never really went anywhere with it. But late 2006/2007 MVP RULED. I think he first started to lose his spark when they took away his awesome entrance from him:






Such a cool entrance that made him seem above the rest of the roster and it fitted his ''MVP'' character perfectly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think Mysterio's talent are fully realized among those who watch him. Hard to see him and think otherwise, quite frankly. Proven it after about what, 18 years of being consistent? It's absurd. Only being now in the twilight of his career is nothing to be ashamed of for him or sad about as a fan. While he was healthy upon this 2012 return & few 2013 matches, he's managed to pull his weight. If not pump out some of the better matches. He's worked about two matches this year - sans Rumble - and both were GOOD. One in fact, the tag vs Hell No, very good imho. The guy is an absolute marvel and deserves any and all praise he's ever received. Dude is unreal. Incredible talent & incredible body of work among many different promotions & eras of the sport.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I go crazy trying to decide between Rey, Eddie, and Benoit as the best worker in the WWE since 2002.

Then I realize that it's actually John Cena.

:cena3


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Regal & Storm/The Dudleyz (Royal Rumble 2003) **3/4
- Benoit & Lesnar/Team Angle (No Way Out 2003) ***1/2
- SmackDown MITB (MITB 2010) **1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005:* **3/4. After the Wrestlecrap performance these two gave at The Great American Bash - a performance I will forever refer to as The Great American TRASH - these two needed redemption. But not just a "miss the target first, hit it next" type of redemption; I mean a "miss the target three times first, perform a hat trick next" type of. And that's essentially what this match came to. It was rightfully shorter, decently wrestled, stiff, to the point, and more importantly it cut the shit that was wrong in the GATrash. And thank GOD it did. The work of, in my mind, mixing with the JBL, the Khali and Booker matches meant I was really thinking Batista had the makings of being one of the worst World Heavyweight Champions of all time, when in reality he may be involved in the best feud over said championship ever (him vs. Taker). This was a fun little match, one that did its job well, gave the fans some nasty-looking spots to cheer at, and gave Batista a nice victory in his hometown. Not bad, and a good redemption job from both men.

*Batista/JBL, Smackdown 9/9/2005:* **1/4. This was a Texas Bullrope match, and quite a dissapointing one - after the CLASSIC that was the Eddie/JBL one from GAB 2004, I expected something on that level, or even better, considering that both men are terrific bladejobbers  But then again, why the fucking hell am I expecting that kind of greatness from a match between these two? The No Holds Barred match from SummerSlam is their greatest match ever I believe, and that's under *** as well. Batista and JBL just don't mix well together. About as well as water and electricity, or as yogurt and ketchup. This Bullrope match was as generic and dull of a Strap match as they come. This gimmick match is supposed to be brutal, bloody and nasty, but there was barely any blood here (which came off a legit broken nose), but well not that I really have to complain about it since I'm no bloodthirsty psycho fan. I just tend to believe that this kind of match really benefits if it's the brutal bloodbath that the WWE themselves promote it as such. Oh, and Michael Cole announcing the fucking house show tour at the 1st minutes of the match was annoying as Hell. The rating it gets is only thanks to the occasional spot (including those NASTY cowbell shots to the head) and because of both men's facials - amazing facials at that.

*Batista/Eddie, No Mercy 2005:* ****. Finally, the Batista/JBL saga is over... I think. But for the sake of positive thinking, I'm hoping they don't cross paths by 2008, when Batista is BRIEFLY WHC. This right here was Batista's 1st GREAT Singles WHC defense (I don't count HIAC vs. HHH in that regard), and guess with who? The legendary Eddie Guerrero, in his 1st and only World Title match. Shamefully, it just happens to also be Eddie's final PPV match ever, so I guess we can call Dave 'Tista Eddie's final major opponent. And even though nobody predicted the tragedy that was his passing, I guess 'Tista kinda did because he stepped up his game quite heavily in this match. The psychology, which is similar to Angle/Eddie from SSlam '04 in that Eddie doesn't want to cheat for victory, is played phenomenally well. The wrestling is awesome, with Batista largely expanding his arsenal of mostly power moves as he added plenty of suplexes to it and whatnot. Eddie was his traditional awesome self here, and did a terrific job of building up throughout the match his seemingly inevitable breaking of his "non-cheating" policy. The commentary also did a great job of questioning Eddie's real intentions with his friendship with Batista and wheater ot not Eddie would cheat. Just a great hidden gem from 2005, and another great World Heavyweight Title gem. *R.I.P Eddie Guerrero* 

*NEXT:* A Battle Royal happens, an Olympian battles an Olympian, and we're treated with an all-time classic...


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just finished WrestleWar '92 and while it wasn't quite as good overall as SuperBrawl, it was still pretty great and has possibly the greatest WCW match ever on the PPV. The Steiners tag match was pretty good and surprisingly Pillman and Z-Man had a really great match then of course War Games was ridiculously awesome. There's just something about this match, just seems to get better every time I come across it. Just the perfect feud and the perfect blow off match. Now my excitement is at an all time high cause Beach Blast is up next. :mark:

I think I'll give WrestleWar '92





















out of 5.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> I go crazy trying to decide between Rey, *Eddie*, and Benoit *as the best worker in the WWE since 2002.*
> 
> Then I realize that it's actually John Cena.
> 
> :cena3


Not really a fair comparison to compare Eddie's and Benoit's work post 2002 (three years and five years respectively) to John Cena's 11 years :lmao I reckon if Eddie were to still be working to this day and be given the workers that Cena has had, he'd have a MUCH more impressive catalog than JAHN.

I mean, Eddie's 02-05 consisted of his matches against Edge, Van Dam, KOTR against Flair, all of his Smackdown 6 stuff, his matches w/ Tajir against WGTT, US title match against Benoit vengeance 2003, NWO 04 vs. Lesnar, vs. Big Show on SD 04, his matches against JBL, vs. Kurt at Summerslam 04 (decent, nothing spectacular), and then all of his work against Rey in 2005, including the GOAT TV match (in my opinion). I'm probably also forgetting a hell of a lot of TV GEMZ as well, as well as some of the best character development I've ever seen.

Imagine if we had 8 more years Eddie, just like we have of Cena, and I think it'd be more than safe to say that Eddie would be considered greater. However, you probably will disagree. I could probably make a similar post regarding Benoit as well, but I prefer Eddie. W/E


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was kidding about Cena vs Rey/Eddie/Benoit btw as I believe that they're perhaps the best 3 pound for pound workers to ever work primarily in North America besides Flair. Mysterio would probably be second for me... MAYBE.... I'd throw Bret in there somewhere too IMHO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Beach Blast '92 :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know what?

Yeah, I'd have Mysterio as my #2 behind Flair. There have been guys with better PRIMES then Mysterio but in terms of being the best day in and day out Mysterio has 99.99 percent of guys beat out.

I'd probably go Benoit > Eddie too.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF said:


> *World Heavyweight Championship Project*
> 
> *Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005:* **3/4. After the Wrestlecrap performance these two gave at The Great American Bash - a performance I will forever refer to as The Great American TRASH - these two needed redemption. But not just a "miss the target first, hit it next" type of redemption; I mean a "miss the target three times first, perform a hat trick next" type of. And that's essentially what this match came to. It was rightfully shorter, decently wrestled, stiff, to the point, and more importantly it cut the shit that was wrong in the GATrash. And thank GOD it did. The work of, in my mind, mixing with the JBL, the Khali and Booker matches meant I was really thinking Batista had the makings of being one of the worst World Heavyweight Champions of all time, when in reality he may be involved in the best feud over said championship ever (him vs. Taker). This was a fun little match, one that did its job well, gave the fans some nasty-looking spots to cheer at, and gave Batista a nice victory in his hometown. Not bad, and a good redemption job from both men.
> 
> ...


How did you feel about the Spinebuster finish for Eddie/Batista?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> *I was kidding about Cena vs Rey/Eddie/Benoit btw* as I believe that they're perhaps the best 3 pound for pound workers to ever work primarily in North America besides Flair. Mysterio would probably be second for me... MAYBE.... I'd throw Bret in there somewhere too IMHO.


I so completely knew that... :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I splurged on SV earlier since everything is 3 for 2 atm, then 10% discount on 4 or more DVD's (technically still 10% for 3 DVD's but one is free so there has to be 4 in your basket lol). Got all of these for under £30:

Survivor Series 2004 DVD - Card looks good mostly, plus I always wanted to own Christian Vs Shelton. Also don't think I've ever seen the big Raw SS tag match.

Vengeance 2011 Blu-ray	- Henry Vs Show ring breaking :mark: and then the crazy fun LMS with Del Rio/Cena that takes place with the broken ring. PLUS the Bluray has some stuff from Raw and SD before the PPV including the awesome Henry/Morrison squash :mark:.

Hell in a Cell 2011 Blu-ray - Mainly for HENRY/Orton, plus there is Christian/Cena and Christian/Orton on the Raw/SD Bluray extras :mark:.

Ricky Steamboat: The Life Story of the Dragon DVD (3 Discs) - STEAMBOAT.

John Morrison - Rock Star DVD - Well fuck me the match listing for this looks tremendous. The Punk ECW title win (I think that's the match), the awesome Bourne ECW 09 match, tag Vs DX, then Vs Edge, Punk, Jericho, Jeff and Mysterio during his pretty swank SD 09 run. YES PLEASE. About as perfect as a superstar set can get. Glad it was just 1 disc, since well... I don't think he has enough for a second disc, never mind a third .

ECW December To Dismember DVD - Kinda need it for my 06 collection. Got all the SD and Tri-Brand PPV's, now the ECW PPV, just about 3 Raw ones to go.

Night of Champions 2011 Blu-ray	- HENRY/Orton :mark:. Pretty much it .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If Benoit had been allowed to work with main event talent more frequently after 2005 started, he could have no doubt been the greatest. All they gave him after that was midcarders for the most part. Had he gotten a chance to work a main event PPV match against the likes of Batista (Benoit got his first quality match in the first 05 Raw), Undertaker, Mysterio, Angle or from the Raw side of things, Cena, more HHH & HBK, Edge and Orton - his list of great matches would have been bumped up heavily.

Instead he was stuck squashing Orlando Jordan for months, then a lengthy never ending series with Booker, JBL and then Chavo and MVP. And his death wouldn't have meant anything as they shipped him off to ECW and would waste him even more with newcomers.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I so completely knew that... :side:


I find it hard to tell when KOK is being serious lately with all this new found Cena love. Some times I think he's just gimmick posting/trolling.

I mean I don't know what to say to comments like this:


KingOfKings said:


> Rockin' a "Word Life" tee with some Cena & Trademarc in the background, *life doesn't get any sweeter.*


:|


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Glad I'm not the only one on here who wasn't fond of Kennedy. Ridiculously overrated mic-skills, uncoordinated ring-work, injury prone, etc. Never understood the hype and praise around him.

MVP was great. Charisma? Check. Stage presence? Over with the crowd? Check. Check. Mic-skills? Check. Ring-skills? Check. World Championship material? Check. Would be thrilled to have him back one day. So much talent and potential wasted.

And yeah, you can't go wrong with Mysterio's incredible ring-work which has allowed him to produce a tremendous amount of entertaining matches throughout his career. Quite possibly the ring-worker I look forward to watching the most as his matches fail to disappoint me. Very few people more consistent than him. And he works extremely well with pretty much anyone, even the big men in "David vs. Goliath" battles. Marvelous talent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, no lie Cal. Morrison's set is damn near ideal when it comes to putting together a compilation of a worker's most impressive outings. Been meaning to nab that since the moment it was released. Yet to own it although I'm certain I can find it for near dirt cheap in stores here. Only problem is actually spotting it for a purchase.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Ha. I miss Morrison.


imo2 :sad:

edit I highly enjoyed MVP's series with Benoit. Never cared for Kennedy. Massively overrated (mostly by Pyro + sheep) imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Greg did you ever get JoMo's set?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nah, couldn't find it in stores. I'll probably just purchase it online.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Does the SummerSlam 2002 DVD have the post match moment where The Rock tries to do his catchphrase but the fans boo him? I'm gonna buy it regardless but I want to know before hand.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lol Morrison.

To hop on KOK's bandwagon at the minute, I'm currently watching my way through :cena3's Wrestlemania resume. I'm hoping to have it ready to post before the big day in 2 weeks. I guess it's more of a commentary on Cena's journey from newbie to perennial main eventer over the course of 9 years. Some interesting finds. Got the worst of the lot out of the way in 20, 21 and 27. Next up 22 vs. GAME :mark:.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> Lol Morrison.


This.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> Does the SummerSlam 2002 DVD have the post match moment where The Rock tries to do his catchphrase but the fans boo him? I'm gonna buy it regardless but I want to know before hand.


I have the DVD @ home so I'll let you know later. I don't recall it including this, though.



Starbuck said:


> Lol Morrison.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


>


:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I have the DVD @ home so I'll let you know later. I don't recall it including this, though.


Cool.

I was in the middle of a thought that WWE should re-release Wrestlemania's in Blu-Ray till I remembered Wrestlemania 20 and them hating Benoit 

Oh well the Mania 20 DVD will do.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FIVE HOUR EXTRAVAGANZA~!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Half way through the main event of WM 20. Was it always this boring? :|

Nah, not boring, I'm just having a hard time watching shit atm. Since I started my new job I've barely been interested in watching any wrestling . Fuck knows why. Stupid job. I should quit.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Lol Morrison.
> 
> To hop on KOK's bandwagon at the minute, I'm currently watching my way through :cena3's Wrestlemania resume. I'm hoping to have it ready to post before the big day in 2 weeks. I guess it's more of a commentary on Cena's journey from newbie to perennial main eventer over the course of 9 years. Some interesting finds. Got the worst of the lot out of the way in 20, 21 and 27. Next up 22 vs. GAME :mark:.


Looks like you're still getting the worst out of the way. :cena2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Lol Morrison.
> 
> To hop on KOK's bandwagon at the minute, I'm currently watching my way through :cena3's Wrestlemania resume. I'm hoping to have it ready to post before the big day in 2 weeks. I guess it's more of a commentary on Cena's journey from newbie to perennial main eventer over the course of 9 years. Some interesting finds. Got the worst of the lot out of the way in 20, 21 and 27. Next up 22 vs. GAME :mark:.



Perhaps my favorite match ever. ***** 1/4*.

HAITCH'S introduction by Lillian gives me the biggest goosebumps every single time, same thing with the "you can't see me" crotch chop taunt. Take two of my top five favourites ever (sorry macho, that's John Boy's spot now) and put it in a hostile environment on the biggest stage of them all? DAMN.

King of Kings HHH is my favorite character ever, hence the user name .


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

AND I ENJOYED EVERY LAST MINUTE OF IT (Except Lesnar/Golberg and Christian/Jericho)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I may be in the minority, but I preferred Morrison the most in MNM. I actually liked him then. They were the best tag team in YEARS. And I didn't mind his sole heel run with Melina, but when he started teaming with Miz I just didn't care - and I didn't care for his singles career afterwards which exposed his truly awful mic skills.

I'd mark for a MNM reunion though:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol, the XX main event is anything but boring. Watched it about five times and it was never boring. It just felt like the ending came too soon because I was too into it.

Speaking of Morrison, any TV matches recommended for me to watch from his? I download the TLC with Sheamus along with a bunch of other PPV 2010 matches yesterday and got them saved for later watching. (any recommendations have to be pre-2011)

And if Hayley is reading this, I'm almost finished with uploading the full 24/3/06 Smackdown. Was thinking if I should stick to the match or the whole show and decided to go with the latter because it takes less time as I wont have to cut it out and make sure the audio is in sync plus Orton is killing it all night from the very beginning when he steals Mysterio's entrance as he pops up from the corner.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The moment Cena defeats Batista @ XXVI and raises the belt above his head is the moment that he became not only the top guy in the franchise, but the franchise itself.

WM XXVI - Present Cena IS THE WWE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Perhaps my favorite match ever. ***** 1/4*.
> 
> HAITCH'S introduction by Lillian gives me the biggest goosebumps every single time, same thing with the "you can't see me" crotch chop taunt. Take two of my top five favourites ever (sorry macho, that's John Boy's spot now) and put it in a hostile environment on the biggest stage of them all? DAMN.
> 
> King of Kings HHH is my favorite character ever, hence the user name .


Yeah, HHH's King of Kings entrance + pro-HHH crowd popping like mad during Lillian's introduction is like my favorite Mania moment ever.



MoveMent said:


> AND I ENJOYED EVERY LAST MINUTE OF IT (Except Lesnar/Golberg and Christian/Jericho)


I don't remember Christian/Jericho. Was that the feud with Trish turning on one of them?



edit - C2D, have you seen Morrison/Mysterio for the IC title on SD 09?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> edit - C2D, have you seen Morrison/Mysterio for the IC title on SD 09?


That's the first match I had in mind. Just wondering if there is anything else since I've been in the mood to watch some 08-10 stuff recently. Although I should be more concerned with finishing 2006 as it's taken much longer than 2005 or 2004 did because I've watched lots of other shit in the middle of it.

Speaking of Mysterio, I'm about to watch his title match with Cena from Raw for the first time since the day it happened. Hoping it'll hold up.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, HHH's King of Kings entrance + pro-HHH crowd popping like mad during Lillian's introduction is like my favorite Mania moment ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea she turned on Jericho, match was very forgettable I haven't watched it in years. It got more time than Kane/Undertaker (.__.)

On a related note. DAT UNDERTAKER WRESTLEMANIA 20 ENTRANCE


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MORRISON VS. BOURNE ECW 4/14/09


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rawk said:


> Looks like you're still getting the worst out of the way. :cena2


:HHH



KingOfKings said:


> Perhaps my favorite match ever. ***** 1/4*.
> 
> HAITCH'S introduction by Lillian gives me the biggest goosebumps every single time, same thing with the "you can't see me" crotch chop taunt. Take two of my top five favourites ever (sorry macho, that's John Boy's spot now) and put it in a hostile environment on the biggest stage of them all? DAMN.
> 
> King of Kings HHH is my favorite character ever, hence the user name .


Trips introduction at Mania 22 is fucking GOAT. I feel sorry for Cena having to go next. THE DOCTAH OF THUGONOMICS. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think there was a FCA match on Raw during Morrison's latest run that was quality as well.

edit Mania 22's main event would be my favorite match ever if the opposite finish happened. Same goes for ER12 - coincidentally, both won by Cena. :side:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nostalgia said:


>


:lmao at Carlito during Melina's spot in the entrance. Man, haven't seen that since it first aired.

:mark: for Mysterio/Morrison SD. **** and what a fucking match it was.

Have Miz/Morrison FCA at ***1/2. One of Miz's best matches that's for sure.

Edit: Oh, and Mania 20 main event? Doesn't make my top 1000 Mania main events. 4/10.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho/Christian is the second best match of the night for WM XX. Blew me away back then. Doesn't hold up quite as well now (used to be ****1/2), but fuck, still awesome and better than everything else bar the main event, and by quite a large margin too. Rest of the event is shitty or average as fuck lol.

As for Morrison matches, just go by the match listing on his DVD tbh, can't go wrong http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/John-Morrison-Rock-Star-DVD.html


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> *Speaking of Morrison, any TV matches recommended for me to watch from his?* I download the TLC with Sheamus along with a bunch of other PPV 2010 matches yesterday and got them saved for later watching. (any recommendations have to be pre-2011)


Here's one:










A good ladder match with Jeff Hardy on RAW for the IC Title that I remember watching from my Ladder match DVD set.



Big Z said:


> As for Morrison matches, just go by the match listing on his DVD tbh, can't go wrong http://www.silvervision.co.uk/products/John-Morrison-Rock-Star-DVD.html


Didn't even know he had his own DVD, how the hell does he get his own DVD when a guy like Christian doesn't?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SHAMAN OF SEXY


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> How did you feel about the Spinebuster finish for Eddie/Batista?


It was kind of blah, but I still imagine it could've been far worse.

Now moving to the Jan. 06 Battle Royal, then Angle/Henry (ugh), and then ANGLE/TAKER :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That Morrison/Hardy ladder match is a good match. Especially for free TV. I'd kill for a decent ladder match on Raw nowadays. Though we did get Punk/Ryback I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Didn't even know he had his own DVD, how the hell does he get his own DVD when a guy like Christian doesn't?


Christian has never had WWE fanfare behind him. As unusual as it sounds despite being a two time World Champion, I know.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Let's face it, only reason Christian won the title in the first place is because of Edge's retirement. Second time was just to keep the series with Orton going as long as possible too.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That Morrison/Hardy ladder match is a good match. Especially for free TV. I'd kill for a decent ladder match on Raw nowadays. Though we did get Punk/Ryback I guess.


Yeah, Punk/Ryback TLC was a good match, but what we need is a ladder match featuring a midcard title on RAW again. Matches like that give the titles more meaning, because you're willing to destroy yourself in a ladder match to retain it. Same with things like Cage matches. Imagine Cesaro retaining the US Title in hard fought cage match that went like 15 minutes, would mean much more than him beating Miz in a few minutes.



HayleySabin said:


> Christian has never had WWE fanfare behind him. As unusual as it sounds despite being a two time World Champion, I know.


I know. I just hope he gets one before he retires, considering he's had a much better career than Morrison and there's a lot of Christian fans like myself who would buy it. Imagine all the classic Christian matches you could feature on a DVD, plus I want a good documentary on him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tis the facts. At least Christian got 4 extra weeks on top. I'll take it as opposed to nothing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Yeah, Punk/Ryback TLC was a good match, but what we need is a ladder match featuring a midcard title on RAW again. Matches like that give the titles more meaning, because you're willing to destroy yourself in a ladder match to retain it. Same with things like Cage matches. Imagine Cesaro retaining the US Title in hard fought cage match that went like 15 minutes, would mean much more than him beating Miz in a few minutes.


Agreed, I miss the days of personal midcard feuds being resolved in a gimmick match that actually made the titles seem worth something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Midcard that matters and exists in WWE? You guys are living in a fantasy world.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed, I miss the days of personal midcard feuds being resolved in a gimmick match that actually made the titles seem worth something.


(Y)

Like the Christian/Jericho Cage match from RAW in 2004, even though that wasn't for a title, it MAIN EVENTED RAW and that really made the feud important. You would never see a midcard feud main event RAW now, sadly.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Remember when a women's match main evented Raw?

A WOMENS MATCH. TWO PEOPLE WITH VAGINAS MAIN EVENTED AN EPISODE OF RAW.

True story.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is that Jeff Hardy/Morrison ladder match from late 2006? In that case, I'll save it for when I'm there.



HayleySabin said:


> Midcard that matters and exists in WWE? You guys are living in a fantasy world.


If you're still looking for Rey/Finlay, I just finished uploading the whole show. Video's not fully processed yet but I'll post the link anyways.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Yeah, Punk/Ryback TLC was a good match, but what we need is a ladder match featuring a midcard title on RAW again. Matches like that give the titles more meaning, because you're willing to destroy yourself in a ladder match to retain it. Same with things like Cage matches. Imagine Cesaro retaining the US Title in hard fought cage match that went like 15 minutes, would mean much more than him beating Miz in a few minutes.


Exactly, good post. A ladder/cage match for a mid card build not only would it make them seem more important like you said, but it's actually an exciting match for us fans. Even a midcard feud without titles can benefit from matches like that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Remember when a women's match main evented Raw?
> 
> A WOMENS MATCH. TWO PEOPLE WITH VAGINAS MAIN EVENTED AN EPISODE OF RAW.
> 
> True story.


Yep:








Choke2Death said:


> Is that Jeff Hardy/Morrison ladder match from late 2006? In that case, I'll save it for when I'm there.


Probably.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Remember when a women's match main evented Raw?
> 
> A WOMENS MATCH. TWO PEOPLE WITH VAGINAS MAIN EVENTED AN EPISODE OF RAW.
> 
> True story.


Did you know TNA did that a few times? ONE TIME IN A CAGE? IT'S A BIG FREAKING DEAL SO THEY HAD TO CONSTANTLY TELL US VIA COMMENTARY.

It came off as obnoxious as that post just did. Stupid Taz.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll make a bet now (although it's not a big stretch) : a women's match will never main event Raw again. Unless it's some sort of naked, pillow fight. Then maybe.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of that, just for curiosity - what was the closest to good Divas Title match on TV ever?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't Lita/Stephanie also main event Raw for the title back in 2000? TWO TIMES WOMEN'S MATCHES MAIN EVENTED TEH RAW?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just turned on the Best of Raw/Smackdown 2012 which is on Netflix. 

Kane/Ryder Falls Count Anywhere (go home Raw before the RR) is first. At least Kane was a monster for about 4-5 months before he was put with Bryan. Ryder with NO CHANCE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nah Kane quickly turned garbage when they made him Cena's bitch upon retuning with the MASK.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Kane returning with the mask was awesome. A real shame they didn't let him do much of note. The feud with Cena was poor, although it had a good premise.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Kane/Cena was horrible. Incoherent story combined with trash matches.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:lmao at Eve's selling when Kane chokeslams Ryder through the stage. 

DAT CENA TO THE RESCUE :cena2


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I remember Kane saying to Cena that he would injure him bad enough so that he would just be ready in time for mania. :lmao

Kane is good in his current role . Doesn't need to be any more then that.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I break out in stress rashes every time someone mentions Christian's treatment as WHC. One day, I'll watch the vs Orton match series from beginning to end and enjoy them for the good matches they are. In about 50yrs time. Possibly.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hmmm Cena's first promo on The Rock (the night after EC 2012) is a lot better than I remember it being. After he got past the "Dwayne's not here", he really brought it.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Cena vs. Kane sucked so much. Forced feud with an incoherent story and two garbage matches. Totally wrecked Kane's return with the mask by having him fed to Cena.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

In fairness to the Kane/Cena feud, it was meant to make Cena look like a believable threat against the ROCK and what better way than to have him beat a resurrected monster in Kane? Kane is a safe worker which protected Cena from getting injured and he is willing to job to wrestlers so it was fine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Cena program was bad. Matches weren't though. Don't see how one could find them to be "trashy". Cena vs Kane blew away both gimmick matches on the namesake of the PPVs they were at - Royal Rumble & Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That feud was comedy gold. Some of the segments there had me tearing up. SPECIALLY the last one with Kane sneaking behind Ryder in a wheelchair and throwing him off the stage. :lmao

Ryder as Kane's personal jobber being tossed around every week was so hilarious.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, I have been working on a harmless little project based on the best TV matches of the PG era during my "breaks" on my WHC project. And I wanted to present it to ya, right now, so here it is (it's based on the WrestleMania 19 card).

There may be some classics missing because I had some credentials: *the titles must not show up more than once, and neither must the wrestlers involved*. So, here it is:


BEST OF PG ERA TV SUPERCARD

*PRE-SHOW*
*The Usos & Trent Barreta vs. Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel & Heath Slater (Superstars, 6/30/2011)*




The perfect mix of unused Superstars, raw intensity, parallel storylines hidden within, and pure excitement from start to finish. This would be a perfect show-kickstarter for any event. 

*ONE HOT OPENER, TWO NEW STARS*
*John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne (ECW, 4/14/2009)*




Arguably the greatest singles match in the careers of both men involved, even moreson than the IC Title match with Rey in the case of Morrison (which was a shade away from making this list), but would kinda compromise the next match. Terrific contest here.

*TAG TEAM MADNESS*
*WWE Tag Team Champions Team Hell No vs. Car Stereo (non-title match) (Smackdown, 2/1/2013)*




Fun, fun, and nothing but fun. One of the best Tag Team matches in recent times, both of these teams go balls out for the short time they're given. With three extremely talented guys (Kane, Bryan and Rey), and a guy that in these situations can be competent (Cara), what you have here is a terrific display of Tag Team entertainment.

*TWO DIVAS... WRESTLING?*
*AJ Lee vs. Naomi Night (NXT, 11/23/2010)*




Oh yes, that title is no mistake. Both of these ladies aren't exactly great wrestlers, some may let you think. Maybe that's because they don't actually display what they're capable of. This match is a proof of why, sometimes, the WWE does drop some good stuff involving Divas. A hidden gem for NXT here.

*BELIEVE IN THE TEAMWORK*
*Chris Jericho, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield (Raw, 2/18/2013)*








http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...ericho-elimination-chamber_sport#.UVDnMRxGJIE
Searching for a good 6-Man Tag in tribute to WM 19's (this IS based on the WM 19 card after all) wasn't easy at all, so I just threw this one out here. It's 3/3 for The Shield members so far, as they haven't delievered a match that hasn't been great so far, and this was no exception. Awesome teamwork chaotic brawl that'll give you a heck of fun.

*THE SLEEPER HIT*
*ECW Champion Jack Swagger vs. Christian (ECW, 2/24/2009)*








At WM 19, the spot this match is in was the one of HBK vs. Y2J, which not just means the Main Event matches are starting to kick in, but so are the truly amazing ones. Chemistry? Great. Psychology? Superb. Emotion? Pretty high. Wrestling? Simply phenomenal. It was Christian's return match to the WWE, and what an awesome contest it was. Nothing short of clasic.

*AN AWESOME SHOW-OFF*
*Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz (Main Event, 11/21/2012)*








http://bollyline.info/put.php?id=A3442BCA0CD9E36D
http://bollyline.info/put.php?id=664C491CC7F5F2F4
Main Event delievered a lot of quality matches, and this was certainly one of the better ones. A lot of fun that was this match. Some awesome selling, chemistry and crowd heat made up for one of 2012's best gems.

*THE LAST MAN STANDING*
*World Heavyweight Champion The Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio (Last Man Standing match) (Smackdown, 1/11/2013)*








http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...big-show-last-man-standing_sport#.UVDr3RxGJIE
In honor of the Vince McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan war, we found ourselves this pretty incredible piece of brutality and storytelling. With the full support of a Latino crowd, Del Rio found himself scratching and clawing like a true warrior under the domination of the giant in this Last Man Standing battle.

*A WAR OF ICONS*
*WWE Champion Triple H vs. The Undertaker (non-title match) (Smackdown, 10/24/2008)*








http://phenommark.xanga.com/videos/a0dd3943984/
Last year these two fought an End of an Era. But 4 years before, on Smackdown, Taker and HHH wrestled what was, up then, their 1st match in years. And it was pretty awesome.

*THE GREATEST FEUD OF THE PG ERA BLOWS-OFF*
*John Cena vs. CM Punk (Raw, 2/27/2013)*




The Golden Era had Hogan vs. Savage. The Attitude Era had Rock vs. Austin. And the PG Era has Cena vs. Punk. Admitedly, that's nowhere near as historical as the latter two, but Cena and Punk together are always bound to create gold. Arguably their 2nd greatest match behind their Money In The Bank classic, this all-out war is the best TV match in YEARS, and is surely one that will have people talk for a long time.​
Hope you enjoyed this trip! 8)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wildly fun project you've set up ATF. Been wanting to watch the AJ vs Naomi match over for sometime and see if it holds up as being a surprisingly good women's match from WWE. Only match I wouldn't happen to say is anything special was Show vs Del Rio, granted it is beside the point. Effort put forth for something different & downright cool is what matters here. Some of my favorites popped up there. Cheers. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs The Undertaker (Smackdown! 7/22/04) : ******

Cena faced off with The Undertaker three times before this, but this is the Doctor of Thuganomics' first encounter with THE DEADMAN. Cena is made to look absolutely fantastic here as not only does Cena get in a ton of offense, but he also gets Taker down for the three count but the referee is down (granted, this is because Paul Heyman has the urn, thus weakening Taker, but still), and Taker needs to use the steel chain to put Cena away for good. This match also features some of the best back and forth action from Smackdown 2004 and one of the most awesome reversals I have ever seen when Cena escapes the last ride even though he's up CRAZY high.

This match knows exactly what it is, and I believe that Cena came out of this match looking like a legitimate superstar ; if this had to happen on PPV instead of the shitty GAB matches we got (this was on the Go Home Show), this would have been the match that MADE Cena. Taker and Cena have some crazy fucking chemistry and this is their gold standard for sure, as much as I loved the impeccable shoulder work in the August 2003 encounter.

WATCH. It's Cena's best match at this point and it's probably his best match until Judgment Day 2005 unless I'm forgetting something (we'll see anyways). Matches like this one are exactly the reason why I love doing these things ; every now and then you unearth a GEM. Another notch in The Undertaker's cap and quite honestly I'd consider him to be among his best offerings from 2004 next to Heidenreich (carry job of course) and the JBL series (which I don't like as much as I like this).... Actually... This is my favorite Undertaker match from that year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was the only great Undertaker match I recall from 2004. Without a doubt Taker's weakest year of the decade. He hardly worked & to top it off most of his matches weren't anything special. great match vs Cena and a carry job vs Heidenreich. Other than that came some above average matches with JBL, Booker T & and his decent affair vs Kane.

Looked it up and he only worked 16 matches that year. So yep. Not his best one almost by near default.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YES. That's definitely Cena's best match up to that point and Taker's best in 2004. Gotta rewatch it as well as the August 2003 one. I can only imagine what greatness they'll be capable of at Wrestlemania.

And earlier today I finally rewatched Cena vs Mysterio from Raw a couple of years ago and it's still as awesome as I remember it being. JR on commentary gives it a bit 'older' feeling and the back and forth as well as some of the counters are awesome. Why couldn't they have held off Punk's return and made this the SummerSlam main event? Sucks to see Mysterio has fallen so far in the past year since his 2011 injury.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It really is one of the best TV matches I've seen. Top 10 RAW match ever? Easily IMO.

WADE BARRETT VS THE MIZ ON RAW... WHY WWE... WHY?!?!?!?!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> WADE BARRETT VS THE MIZ ON RAW... WHY WWE... WHY?!?!?!?!


Worth it just for that nut-kick from THE GAME. :HHH2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wait... Did I just hear that BRET will be on RAW tonight?

HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK HOLY FUCK :mark: :mark:

THE HITMAN.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Every Bret appearance in the last few years has been shit. Don't know what you're marking for. He can only talk now and he was never good at that so he bores me to death, that and, he makes an appearance like every 6 months so it's not a surprise anymore.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

When Bret appeared with Cena and Punk last September it was pure gold.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> When Bret appeared with Cena and Punk last September it was pure gold.


THIS.

Honestly though, Bret could come out and eat a sandwich in the ring for 3 hours and I'd still mark the fuck out like there was no tomorrow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey *KOK*, since you're watching Cena TV matches, you should check out *Smackdown 11/27/03*. He has a pretty solid match against A-Train to qualify for the Thanksgiving Battle Royal, then competes in what was a pretty damn good battle royal:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7pnxu_20-man-battle-royal-27-11-03_sport#.UVEDtVetolQ


ATF said:


> Speaking of Taker, I'm pumped up because I'm getting closer to the Angle/Taker saga in my WHC project :mark:
> 
> 2006 seems like a good year for the WHC, with 2006 Rey (*aka the high-flyer version of 1985 Ric Flair*) and whatnot, let's see what comes out.


I've been trying to assess that metaphor in my head, can't seem to grasp it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> THIS.
> 
> Honestly though, Bret could come out and eat a sandwich in the ring for 3 hours and I'd still mark the fuck out like there was no tomorrow.


I'd mark out if he cut a promo on what ratings he gives every one of HHH's matches from his career, in honor of his career being possibly ending at WM29. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

After RAW I'm gonna hit that one and the first Mysterio match from 2003 up .

I'm not sure what *ATF* said either, all I have to say is BRET :mark: :mark: :mark:.

YES! It could go like this ;

"Royal Rumble 2000 vs Cactus Jack? 4/10"
"No Way Out 2000 Hell in a Cell vs Cactus Jack? Saw that Cell bump coming from a mile away, 4/10"
"Wrestlemania 2000 fatal four way? Who didn't predict that turn? 4/10"

* Eight Hour Overrun Later *

"Summerslam 2012 vs Brock Lesnar? Yawn. The Kimura isn't the sharpshooter. 4/10".

:lol :lol :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> THIS.
> 
> Honestly though, Bret could come out and eat a sandwich in the ring for 3 hours and I'd still mark the fuck out like there was no tomorrow.


Eat a sandwich for 3 hours. :lmao



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey *KOK*, since you're watching Cena TV matches, you should check out *Smackdown 11/27/03*. He has a pretty solid match against A-Train to qualify for the Thanksgiving Battle Royal, then competes in what was a pretty damn good battle royal:


Plus it's also the debut of the 5 Knuckle Shuffle.



Nostalgia said:


> Every Bret appearance in the last few years has been shit. Don't know what you're marking for. He can only talk now and he was never good at that so he bores me to death, that and, he makes an appearance like every 6 months so it's not a surprise anymore.


He buried CM Punk in Montreal, so I personally am equally excited. Besides, it's THE HITMAN!


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god. I just wrapped up Beach Blast '92 and holy shit, what a fucking tremendous show. From top to bottom just a stellar show. Pillman/Flamingo was a super fun and solid opener, Dangerous Alliance 6-man tag against Windham/Koloff/Rhodes was good, Rude/Steamboat was fucking great, Steiners/MVC was pretty great and holy shit was Foley/Sting batshit fucking awesome, crazy and whatever adjective you can use within that context. Foley/Sting gave me vibes of a 1992 version of Lesnar/Cena, so fucking good. Seriously had so much fun watching this.

I'm gonna go ahead and give this PPV



































out of 5.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know I've been on a Cena Binge lately but I just saw something I need to address.

John Cena just melted my fucking laptop with that MOLTEN HOT PROMO (to paraphrase STEVE AUSTIN). I mean GOD DAMN, Cena just brought it in perhaps the best promo he has cut in a long, long fucking time.

He went out there and completely sold me 110 percent on his desperation and I honestly can't wait for Roid/Cena II now. Seriously.

That was fucking amazing.

:cena3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao I laughed so hard at the last 30 seconds.

Two weeks in a row RAW ending sucks total ass. Cena CANNOT take a Rock Bottom AT ALL.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> :lmao I laughed so hard at the last 30 seconds.
> 
> Two weeks in a row RAW ending sucks total ass. *Cena CANNOT take a Rock Bottom AT ALL.*


This. I laughed. Hard. But I guess laughter is better than no reaction at all, right? :lol

:Edit - Crowd was dead most of the night, but they did a pretty good job with the Rock/Cena segment. The Philly crowd was licking up all of Cena's tears during that promo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Apart from a few moments, The Roid seemed like, well........ Like he was good .

Really impressed with what they both brought to the table that time, especially Cena (and that's not even markdom, that's straight up being IMPRESSED with something I just saw, giving credit where it's due). I wasn't sure about this one and yeah, the match is still going to be shit more than likely... But I CARE. 

That's what matters as of now I suppose.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It may not be the cool thing to say but I'm once again very excited about ROCK vs Cena II. The thought of a heel turn (although I wont be surprised if he comes out the next night smiling like a moron) is just :mark: and the promo itself was great work from both men.

Glad they cut all this "Dwayne" and "I'm here you're not" shit out of it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I mean, Cena completely SOLD me tonight. Whether he turns heel or not I don't really care (would be cool to see everybody magically think he's a good worker just because he turned heel :lol), he just sold me on the fact that anything can happen out there and that if he doesn't get this win ; something's going down.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Cena was rambling so hard for the entire first 5 minutes but finally made something out of it all despite Rocks effort or lack of...

Still not exited to see same old cena and via satillite hook up again just not at all.. 

The only real reason I want to see the match at this point is to see how hard NYC/NJ shits all over Cena because you know theyre going to...

Wrestlemania.... More like Wrestle-MEH-nia...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena was awful at the beginning of the segment, but after he made claim that he beat himself, he got much better and the segment got much better. Love where they're going with the feud and taking Cena one step closer to being a heel. That being said, I'm assuming this is just another giant tease and Cena's just going back to his normal self after Mania.

Rock did a great job himself once he got past storytime, though I didn't mind it in this segment since it only took up at most a tenth of his promo. 

Punk's segment at the beginning of the promo and the beatdown Taker gave him, while it was a great showing (and Taker looked to be in very good shape compared to what he was at Raw 1,000), I do feel it shouldn't have happened. Punk should've laid out Taker with a kick to the skull and/or a GTS, just so he could have a Raw standing tall over Taker to sell the feud and Taker's connection to the urn.

But yeah, Taker/Punk and Rock/Cena were both built extremely well. Lesnar/HHH, on the back of HHH's promo... wasn't. Just another mediocre promo... I mean I know Heyman was in Punk-mode tonight, but they should've had him come out to go back and fourth with HHH to save the segment. Oh well, probably wouldn't have gotten me into the feud anyway.

I'm a little disappointed in the development of the Shield/Show-Sheamus-Orton feud as I was hoping to see controversy surrounding those three men (mainly Sheamus and Show) at least up until the final Smackdown before Mania. Kinda pulled the trigger on making them trust one another a week and a half too quickly imo.

And yeah, in other good news, our US Champion got a win and our intellectual savior got a win.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Rock was better than usual on the mic tonight, finally. The segment kind of dragged at the end. I just can't buy the "desperation" of Cena trying to "win the big one" when it's literally all he has done his entire career. Just not "buy-able", at all. If this was a guy who wasn't 100 time WWE Champion, it would be believable.

I have to admit when Cena said he had to win, it made me think of the Austin/Rock Q & A before WM17. If Vince came out during this match and Cena aligned himself with Vince, the roof would blow off that place. But zero chance of that happening.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tbh, ROCK's "storytime" fit the context it was used in the promo perfectly. Cena talked about failure and how ROCK hasn't felt it then he went on about the times where he was broke with no hope and then how his Rocky Maivia character flopped to the point he was almost robbed of his dreams. Showing us how he's felt "failure" too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah that was really good on his part, mad props to The Roid there.

Watching Cena vs Mysterio I from 11/4/03 , anybody have any ratings to throw at this shit or what?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I may be alone, but that Cena/Rock segment was the same shit promo, just a different week. Or, year. There's completely no heat between these two.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah that was really good on his part, mad props to The Roid there.
> 
> Watching Cena vs Mysterio I from 11/4/03 , anybody have any ratings to throw at this shit or what?


I'd give it ★★★½ but it's been so long since I last watched it. It's also Cena's final moment as a heel so far in his career.

Their Raw match is even better, though. ★★★★ for that one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's CRAZY because I was literally just about to see when was Cena's last heel match (I know he was on the face team at Survivor Series a few weeks later) until you said it :lol.

HOLY SHIT. There's a part at the beginning of the match where Mysterio goes for the West Coast Pop and Cena just DECKS him in the face with one of the stiffest shots I've ever seen from him. The ending is fucking AWESOME too with the low blow and the FU. I wish this lasted another 5-7 minutes at it's be *** 3/4 - **** easily, but I'm gonna throw three and a quarter at it for being so awesome but so short.

**** 1/4*


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

:mark: Great match! Love the different styles that they used in the match with Christian's speed and veteran instincts and Swagger's strength and rookie bravado. Cool spot where Swagger had Christian in a gorilla press position and threw him outside the ring which led to Swagger dominating Christian. Christian played a great babyface here with trying to muster up some sort of offense but Swagger getting the upper hand every time. The match sped up with great back and forth action such as counters, close call pins, and cool power moves. Christian wins the match by outsmarting Swagger by taking off the turnbuckle pad the same time Swagger did, playing off the veteran vs. rookie mentality and it was a great touch to this exciting match. ******

Here are my ratings for the other Christian/Swagger matches prior to Backlash:

Christian vs. Jack Swagger - ECW 2/10/09 ****1/2*
Christian vs. Jack Swagger - ECW 2/24/09 ****3/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have the RAW match @ ***** 1/4*. 

Would make my top 100 matches in company history for sure.

:cena3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That last promo between the two was golden. This was Cena's first great promo since the Punk/Bret Hart segment and I thought he was alittle better than THE ROCK, simply because he sold his emotions well. Like C2D said, ROCK's storytime was relevant because he was talking about how he nearly failed and that failure helped him to achieve success in his life. I can't help but expect for a heel turn but I'll try not to because everytime expectations will lead me getting dissappointed. Cena's heel turn was teased in the Kane feud and after ROCK's victory over Cena but then gone when he beat Lesnar. You could also argue the Nexus storyline teased a heel turn. This is probably another heel turn tease that won't lead to nowhere, unfortunetly. 

Can't wait for this match. Yes, Cena didn't sell the ROCK-bottom well but that's minor. Doesn't take from another well worked segment between the two. P.S. wouldn't be funny if the match ended like Austin - ROCK II but this time Johnny Ace playing Vince's role in aiding Cena :lmao :lmao


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm having an extremely difficult time finding The Rock and Stone Cold being interviewed by JR before Wrestlemania 17, does anyone have it or seen it on Youtube?? I been searching forever


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWE No Way Out 2008 - WWE Championship: John Cena vs. Randy Orton

No question about it this is the best Cena/Orton match ever, and the great heel match I've ever seen Orton in. His gameplan was and heel tactics were on another level here. At first he thought he could beat Cena straight up cause he's the better man but Cena being Cena didn't stay down so what did Orton do? Take short cuts and cheat and even started stalling oh and he even FAKED! A knee injury just to sucker Cena in and RKO him on the floor but once Cena made it back in the ring Orton said "FUCK THIS" and slapped the ref for the DQ. BRILLIANT! The action was pretty awesome too. ****1/2


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> I'm having an extremely difficult time finding The Rock and Stone Cold being interviewed by JR before Wrestlemania 17, does anyone have it or seen it on Youtube?? I been searching forever


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

MoveMent said:


> I'm having an extremely difficult time finding The Rock and Stone Cold being interviewed by JR before Wrestlemania 17, does anyone have it or seen it on Youtube?? I been searching forever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmhUnLvI0z4

WWF keeps taking down the orginals:angry:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


>





Christian Louboutin said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmhUnLvI0z4
> 
> WWF keeps taking down the orginals:angry:


THANK YOU. 

I plan on downloading all the RAW's from '01 but I didn't feel like waiting for this haha


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

MoveMent said:


> I'm having an extremely difficult time finding The Rock and Stone Cold being interviewed by JR before Wrestlemania 17, does anyone have it or seen it on Youtube?? I been searching forever


Its tough to find no doubt. It was taking it off like twice from two channels I used to watch it on. Thanks to you all above. Been wanting to see that again myself.



Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I may be alone, but that Cena/Rock segment was the same shit promo, just a different week. Or, year. There's completely no heat between these two.


I know you're a punk mark and all, so Im not surprised at this, but no way was this the same. 

If the two were out there singing, and rapping, telling jokes, trying to one up each other, not having a real point of feuding, and all that other mess we endured for a year you have a strong point. But this is nothing, not even remotely close to be considered the same ol shit.



Choke2Death said:


> Tbh, ROCK's "storytime" fit the context it was used in the promo perfectly. Cena talked about failure and how ROCK hasn't felt it then he went on about the times where he was broke with no hope and then how his Rocky Maivia character flopped to the point he was almost robbed of his dreams. Showing us how he's felt "failure" too.


I was hoping he would mention how Austin beat him and glad he did, then turned it into how he used that failure to succeed. 

Good work from both.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Rock/Cena promo took a while to get going, because Cena rambled for a bit on that first question, but things did pick up. I marked a little when Rock hit the Rock Bottom. 

Punk/Henry - April 16, 2012 on Raw in LONDON. Always love English crowds, and London does not disappoint. Since this was only a few weeks after Mania, the "Yes" chants were still fresh and super over. Especially the "ooooooooooooo...YES"

Nice TV match, a different finish with Punk hitting the steel chair elbow drop. Probably ***1/2.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Found this on Reddit. Assuming that this is true, interesting breakdown of the three matches. I'm sure that after tonight's main event, Rock/Cena will surpass HHH/Lesnar.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

After watching the end of Raw, I have absolutely no doubt John Cena is winning at Mania. Couple that with the fact that HHH and Undertaker appear to be locks, we're looking at a clean sweep for the faces and the likelihood of a Jack Swagger victory. Or a Lesnar swerve? 

I don't think I'm happy with the way this will turn out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena's 2009 Road to Wrestlemania is GOAT :

- RAW Matches with HBK
- Match with Jericho
- Match with BIG SHOW
- Squashes Chavo in seconds

Watching this Edge match and finishing up Cena's RTWM tomorrow, hopefully make it to Summerslam. I wanna finish Cena's PG Era singles matches this week so I can go all RA next week. This Cena binge is INSANE.

The first Shawn match is ****** , need to re watch the second one.

The first Big Show match is **** 3/4*. 

CENA.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH burying Barrett on Raw tonight is likely my TV moment of the year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

GREG

non spoiler wise, was raw good?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Not the best match analyst but I'll give it a go.

*ROCK vs Undertaker 2002 No Way out review*

Match starts with Rock running to the ring and attacking Taker with punches and a clothesine. Rock continues with the attack untill Taker catches him with a big boot which leads to the Rock kicking out at 2. So far good start to the match but then it gets really boring as Taker slows down the pace. Rock hits a really sloppy neckbreaker but then gets knocked down again and gets put into a chinlock. Rock tries to escape but Taker knees him in the mid section. Taker then gets caught in the top rope after Rock ducked a big boot. Both men go outside and Rock hits some fine executed punches which Taker sells very well. Rock drags Taker to the Spanish announce table but Taker manages to fight back and throw Rock on top of the barricade which leads to a 10 count from the referee. Taker breaks the count and clotheslines Rock over the barricade and into the crowd where they both return and Rock gets placed on the apron where Taker elbows him a couple of times. 

Taker then locks in the chinlock which lasts for a few seconds as Rock's attempted fightback results in a running DDT from Taker. After this, minutes are wasted with a bearhug. Rock slowly fights back and catches Taker with a clothesline which sends both men down. When both get up, Rock performs a DDT and then a spinebuster which then leads to a failed attempt at the People's elbow as Taker catches Rock with a chokeslams that doesn't work too because Rock low blows Taker and starts to punch him in the corner. Taker escapes with a chokeslam which the Rock kicks out of at two. This is probably the best period of the match but unfortunetly, match again slows down as Taker goes to the outside to his bike. 

Afterwards, the referee gets attacked by Undertaker. Taker gets his lead pipe but gets distracted by Ric Flair, who got taken down eventually. When Taker gets back into the ring, Rock catches him with a spinebuster and then executes the sharpshooter. Vince McMahon distracts the referee and then gets thrown inside the Rock by the Rock. Taker then takes advantage and attempts the tombstone but only to get struck with the lead pipe by Ric Flair and this leads to the conclusion of the match with a Rock Bottom.

**3/4. Match was really slowed down with restholds, bearhugs and with the outside of the ring action. The overbooked ending didn't help either. Have these two ever had a good match together? I can only think of the triple threat match at Vengeance..


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Man, Orton needs to turn heel and have a series/feud/program with Sheamus. They could produce some gold matches, given Sheamus is a much better worker than he was in 2010.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Not the best match analyst but I'll give it a go.
> 
> *ROCK vs Undertaker 2002 No Way out review*
> 
> ...


I don't think so, to be quite honest but they only had 3 PPV matches against each other, So they might not have gotten enough opportunities to shine.

Survivor Series 1999 (**)
King Of The Ring 1999 (**1/2)
NWO 2002 (***1/2)

NWO was their best IMO.


----------



## Buttermaker (Sep 29, 2009)

Watched a great match yesterday between Mr. Perfect and Bret Hart from Maple Leafs Gardens sometime in 1989. Quite a match between the two. Recommend to any fan of either wrassler.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock/Cena BROUGHT it on Raw. I'm floored. Really looking forward to this match now. They made me care. Cena heeling it up was :mark:. If it actually happens I don't even know lol. I said before about Cena's desperation perhaps showing as the match progresses. I think that's a very real possibility and it's a story I most definitely look forward to seeing. Rock/Cena just might be the sleeper match this year. They have all sorts of awesome dynamics to work off now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I thought it was way better of a Raw than last week, but still not really RTWM worthy.

Oh and...



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I've been trying to assess that metaphor in my head, can't seem to grasp it.


That one meant that Rey in '06 was the high-flyer/Latino version of Ric Flair in his prime - couldn't work a bad match with absolutely anyone, always delievering good performances... essentially the year of the in-ring prime of one of the GOAT.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just watched RAW and must i say, Taker looked great and them haymakers were thrown to classic style. This match is gonna be **** or above, Mark my words.

On another related topic, A Taker/Bryan match would of been the closet thing to Benoit/Taker and could of matched Angle/Taker in terms of technicality in the ring. Who agrees?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Bryan, Taker/Cesaro and Taker/Ambrose would be :mark:

Alright, back to my WHC project:

*WHC MATCH RANKS LIST AT THE END OF 2005:*
Batista/JBL, The Great American Bash 2005 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
Batista/JBL, Smackdown 9/9/2005 (**)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
Batista/Edge, Raw 5/23/2005 (**1/2)
Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005 (**1/2)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Batista/Eddie, No Mercy 2005 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****1/2)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Batista/HHH, Vengeance 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker actually getting physical before his WM match? Fuck me, has he actually done anything before the match since like 2009 with HBK? Still not really feeling the match with the build up, but I'm still interested just because its Undertaker and Punk.

Jericho finally gets a win! At the expense of the one guy on the roster who needs a win more than him... LOL.

SHIELD ATTACK. BIG SHOW. If only it was someone other than Orton in the match. Looks great as it is, but fuck, replace Orton with someone who gives a shit? Ah well.

HENRY :mark:. Watching him squash the Uso's is fun . NOBODY SPLASH ME! I can only dream that he actually wins at WM .

Oh great Ricardo is still around. And oh what's this? The US champion being used in a match to put over another feud? Happened last week with Jiz and Borrett, and looks like he's gonna get beaten by Del Rio now too unless he gets a DQ win with Swagger getting involved or something. Why the FUCK aren't they doing anything with Cesaro at WM? Fucking bullshit. Countout win for Cesaro. Close enough lol. Oh and look he gets attacked afterwards anyway. Make the WHC look good by killing the US champ! Win win situation!!! Urgh.

Team Hell No Vs PTP. Haven't seen that match before.

HHH promo. Yey, nice and short. :lmao Barrett gets kicked in the balls. Gotta love the treatment of the mid card champs on this show!

Barrett Vs Jiz you say? Oh hey look, something incredibly dull and sharp and pointy. Best stick it in my eyes!

Kaitlyn went head first into a sink. Made my day . So we gonna have Kaitlyn in the corner of Team Hell No and AJ in the corner of Big E & Zig E? What about the Cody Rhodes/Kaitlyn thing? That forgotten already? MAKE UP YOUR MINDS WWE.

Ummm... what? What the FUCK. WHAT THE MOTHERFUCKING FUCKITY FUCK FUCK FFFFFFFFUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKK is this shit? SHIELD having a match before WM... against the biggest fucking useless nobody cunts in the company (And Gabriel who can wrestle)? Fuck me, I'm surprised they didn't try and strike a deal with TNA to bring in Chavo Guerrero Jr to make the team as utterly fucking pointless, shitty and useless and humanly possible. Honestly don't think Shield should have had a match before WM. I mean I get why they are doing it, but putting them again guys like this doesn't do Shield justice (no pun intended... or was it?). Was like Orton/Show/Sheamus facing 3MB on SD or Cena facing black Cena last week on Raw to "get them ready for WM". Wrestling complete nobodies who can't get wins to save their lives doesn't fucking help whoever beats them. Only good thing about this whole thing is that Shield still manage to look good and get the win. :lmao at Khali being totally fucking useless and just standing on the apron while his team mates get beaten and pinned. OH SHIT TRIPLE POWERBOMB TO KHALI. Ambrose's reaction to Sheamus' music hitting was awesome. They could have just had Shield attack Khali and then have the brawl afterwards and we wouldn't have had to deal with Shield having a pointless match.

Fandangleberry Vs Jericho official. Meh.

:lmao so 3MB were used to help make Sheamus/Show/Orton look good going into WM against THE SHIELD... and now they are in a 3 on 1 handicap match against Ryback? Beating these guys does nothing for anyone :lmao.

Am I crazy for looking forward to Henry Vs Ryback in a weight lifting contest? 

AJ. Vs Kaitlyn. Actually forgot Kaitlyn was divas champ. LOL she goes head first into something again. Singles match between these 2 for the title at WM instead of being in tag team corners?

LEGENDS. And Booker T. Foley getting really fat now lol. Bret looks old as fuck. Holy shit, The Rock! And he's the WWE champion! Almost forgot he was still around...

LOL at none of the legends (and booker) hugging Cena even though they did Rock.

Oh fuck off Rock. And Cena. You fan pandering twats. HEY I LIKE THE CITY WE ARE IN. I LIKE THE FOOD IT IS FAMOUS FOR. INSERT PRAISE ABOUT LOCAL SPORTS TEAM HERE. 

Some of the stuff they did here was good... but fuck, between the fan pandering and the Rock going back to bullshit catchphrases and talking about monkey asses... it just wasn't good enough. Cena bringing up his mistake last year was nice though.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Undertaker actually getting physical before his WM match? Fuck me, has he actually done anything before the match since like 2009 with HBK? Still not really feeling the match with the build up, but I'm still interested just because its Undertaker and Punk.


Taker/HHH is the only build up that didn't have anything physical before WM.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 1/13/2006:* **3/4. Thanks to then-returned Mark Henry (THAT'S WHAT HE DOES, BITCH), the Era of Batista was done with, as the Animal was tamed by DA WORLD'S STRONGEST MAN injured and forced to vacant the World Title. So, following traditional Teddy Long rules, the next World Heavyweight Champion is decided in a... Battle Royal. Seems legit. Given that this is a Battle Royal, my credentials had to be far different, even different than Royal Rumble credentials at that, and here's what I came up with: starpower, character work, pace, crowd heat, and predictability. This one lost points for being EXTREMELY predictable (C'mon, the moment Angle, a Raw Superstar at the time, enters the frame, you know who wins), and for, well, having the flow and the pace of a Battle Royal. Although it won points back in having solid starpower - Angle, Mysterio, Henry, Hardy, JBL, Lashley, Regal, Benoit, etc. -, for having OK crowd heat, and for getting some awesome intensity from the likes of Benoit, Mysterio and especially Angle and Henry. And speaking of those two...

*Angle/Henry, Royal Rumble 2006:* 3/4*. Olympic Gold medalist vs. Pan American Games Gold medalist and powerlifting World Champion. Over the World Heavyweight Title. This is legit. The last time I saw this match, I gave it a DUD. I hated it. I had seen their Judgment Day match and this went back-to-back. In comparision, it sucked hard. However, now looking back at it... it's still pretty poor, but not nowhere as much. Poor because it was boring. The crowd was crapping all over it, and the pace was just slow and dull. And yes, I know, Mark Henry was there. But, Mark Henry is awesome, so that's negated. With that said, the storytelling made up for the pace, Angle's comeback was well built and well acted, and the finish sucked balls, but it didn't make Henry look like a weakling, and neither did Angle walk out one either. This match went last on the fucking Royal Rumble and it had no right to, which probably added to my hate of it, and it still has no place in last, but of course, it was it just to set up a lightning destroying the ring, and the next World Heavyweight Title match in the process. We all know what it is...

*Angle/Taker, No Way Out 2006:* ****3/4. The ending was completely out of nowhere and quite underwhelming, so it took away a quarter of a star in the process. Otherwise, this is a perfect wrestling match. Perfect, oh yeah. Yes, there was Ankle Lock overkill (as to expect in a major Kurt Angle match, especially in 2006), but with Taker's insane selling, that was no problem. What you had was terrific storytelling that surrounded around both men trying to make the other tap out by whatever it took to get that goal, you had some mad psychology and selling, off-the-charts chemistry and counters, and a crowd that was absolute bonkers for this. And while the ending wasn't the best (it cost this one the opportunity of being *****), it did made some sense as Angle's arsenal of Suplexes, slams and submissions had been completely wasted, and since Angle saw that Taker just wouldn't tap out, he simply said "Fuck it" and won via surprise pinfall. Because of that sense part, this one was just a fingernail away from being *****. This is the match we should've gotten at WrestleMania 22, instead of the Triple Threat and the Casket Matches. Either that, or Taker/Benoit. That would've been classical too. Perhaps the ****3/4 contest, that reached the CLOSEST EVER to making it to the full 5, this right here is a must-watch, the 2006 Match Of The Year quite easily, and the GOAT WHC Singles match. Terrific stuff.

*NEXT:* A rematch I would actually pay money to watch, the rise of a masked man, and the rematch clause given to the 2nd guy and not the champion...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So the other day I FINALLY watched Orton/Cena NWO '08. I'm speechless. The match is just so great. The psychology of it. It's a slow paced match but that's what makes it so damn good. It's not what moves they do, it's what they do between them. I really can't describe how much i really adored this match. And the ending didn't disappoint. They just worked it so well that it felt like it was the right ending. damn, this is a great match. Not for everyone though.

******


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Solid write up ATF, agree with the rating for Angle/Taker. Had that been at Mania we probably would have got a much better ending (and almost definitely a different winner) and that could have pushed it to five stars. 

@Sharkboy22 - Would you put that Cena/Orton match as your favourite between the two? Or perhaps have Summerslam 2007 higher?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I think the ending between Angle and Taker was fine, It kept them both looking strong heading into Mania. At least it wasn't some crappy interference ending which are always prevalent in Undertaker matches. However, We got that in their SD match after _(fuck me)_. 

As for Orton/Cena. I reckon Summerslam was a lil better for me, The crowd was so freakin' electrifying and the actual wrestling was pretty solid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 16 2000 X-6 XVI review in my blog .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't backtrack from Fully Loaded 2000 to King of the Ring 2000. The drop off in quality is surreal. I made a terrible mistake doing this. Guess we're all lucky WWF made their Summer months not a complete bust with the grand nature of Fully Loaded & absolute fun of SummerSlam. KOTR was one shaky start.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

King Of The Ring 2000 is awful. Which was a shame and a big surprise given the quality of that year. That main event was pretty atrocious especially.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 26*









*
Morrision/Truth vs. ShowMiz ★
Orton vs. DiBiase vs. Rhodes ★★
10 Man MITB ★★1/2
HHH/Sheamus ★★3/4
Punk/Mysterio ★★★1/4
Hart/McMahon - DUD
Jericho/Edge ★★★1/4
Divas Tag - ★
Cena/Batista ★★★3/4
Micheals/Undertaker ★★★★1/2*

- The opener was strange. Lasted only 3 minutes but was okay for what it was. Morrison was the only one who looked like he gave a fuck. Felt like a pre show match at best.

- Triple threat was a bit formulaic and never gave off a personal hatred vibe normally associated with a group break up feud. 

- MITB was cluttered with 10 guys and at least 3 of them didn't need to be included. No real big spots to get excited about and a fair few botches as well ( looking at you Kofi). Didn't help with Swagger taking an age to unhook the damn briefcase. 

- Felt trips/sheamus was a good slug fest between two guys. Hype video before hand fitted well with hindsight with Trips playing the warrior role in this match. Sheamus had a good control segment giving Trips some good sympathy from the crowd which is always hard to get. Didn't feel the need for two brogue kicks to be used , the 2nd one on the apron would have sufficed . Sheamus takes a great pedigree.

- Punk/Mysterio was one of the best 6 minute matches you will see with some great sequences and could have been a MOTYC with 10+ minutes. Is it weird that I think Serena looked hot despite being bald :lol ?

- Jericho and Edge was a strange one. It would be a few minutes of sub par action then bam there would be a great reversal or sequence of moves. The spear counters from Jericho where especially great. Strange seeing Jericho actually win a fucking match these days. Crowd didn't really care outside of one or two moments which hindered it further.

- This was your usual divas trash apart from Vicki doing a tribute to Eddie which I thought was very touching, especially with the treatment she gets on commentary all the time.

- I remember this being a great fued partly because of a really awesome heel Batista character. Now neither of these guys are seen as ring generals but both have been know to be able to work a good match when the spotlight is on them.Really great video package and entrances and you really get that big match Wrestlemania feel. Batista likes ' Fishsticks' sign in the already gives this match a * . Batista starts attacking the neck of Cena and this is cool linking to the past these two have, really nice ddt counter from Batista here. Cena starts his 5 move of doom but another cool counter spine buster from Batista. The STF out of nowhere and theres really good acting here from Cena of almost sadness as Batista gets to the rope and the doubt of if he can beat him sets in .Really cool sequence from AA to Batista bomb.Batista kicks out of the AA and again good story telling with the doubt building in John Cena. Another decent counter from Cena leads to the STF and Batista taps. This was really enjoyable to watch and better then it had any right to be.

- Michaels/Undertaker was a great main event. Felt Undertaker was the real standout though with some fantastic selling and facial expressions. Some awesome counters and drama really add to the big fight feel the match gives off. You really got a feeling that both men would put it all on the line for the streak at the biggest stage of them all. Loved the spontaneousness of the leg injury to Undertaker such a brilliant concept that is underutilized in modern day WWE and they use it to great aplomb here. Only minor gripe was a bit too much finisher kickout in the final 3rd , I'm a big fan of believable non finisher false finishes and I felt this match didn't have that to a point it finishers have felt redundant in Undertaker matches to an extent , especially the more recent ones.Still a fantastic battle between two of the greatest of all time.

- Overall thoughts on the show are that it is a solid Wrestlemania with only a couple of standout moments/matches. The crowd where hit and miss which is always the case in these open stadiums and the set was fantastic which really added to the spectacle. Overall I'd give it a *7/10*.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Orton NWO 08- ***1/2, not a classic, but a very good ending

Cena/Orton SS 07- ****, the last few minutes made the match tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> King Of The Ring 2000 is awful. Which was a shame and a big surprise given the quality of that year. That main event was pretty atrocious especially.


Working my way back to the main event right now. Unsure as what to expect, but at this rate I don't expect it to hold up on any successful means. All that sticks out is a table spot with Taker & Shane. Rest is a total blur. That's probably by design of my brain clouding the rest of the meh-fest.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

After Booker T's question is when the segment got entertaining.
Don't understand why they didn't have THAT heat between them during the build for WM28, instead of killing the heat after Cena challenged Rock after WM27.
THAT'S the Cena we should've got after beating Punk, would've been a better story than the redemption bs.

Still ain't ordering the ppv, only one main event match i really want to see (Punk/Taker).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This series is making me appreciate Cena/Show and their chemistry together.

Don't judge their work by their incredibly dull and mediocre Wrestlemania XX match please. Watch the 2/17/09 Smackdown match that gets a ton of time and tells an awesome story, when I get to PPVs I'm going to be looking forward to Cena-Show @ Extreme Rules, Judgment Day, and No Way Out... Three matches that I haven't seen in a long time.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Speaking of Booker T, What was his best matches in WWE? There's his decent series with Rock in 2001, The great tag team run with Goldust in 2002, match with Triple H at WM19, his series with Benoit in 2005/2006 and the world title reign in 2006.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booker's tags with Goldust are vastly underrated. Damn near all of them were pretty great. Specifically the Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian series.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Booker and Goldust were hilarious and so over at that point. Loved watching them. Plus, their matches were solid as already mentioned.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Big Show vs John Cena (RAW 3/30/09) : *****

CENA LOSES CLEAN.

That's all I have to say about this one, damn. Great story being told here with Cena's injured back preventing him from finishing the match thus causing Big Show to get an open opportunity to take the match. Great, great stuff here and let me reiterate this :

JOHN CENA LOSES CLEAN ON RAW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booker's best WWE matches? HHH at WM. And uhhh... Triple H at WrestleMania. Then uhhh... Trips @ WM XIX.... that's just singles.



Oh man, just watched a trailer for Timeline of the WWF 1989 with BRUTUS of all fucking people. :lmao he never saw greatness in Arn & Tully/4 Horsemen :lmao.

Cena/Orton NW0 08 - ****1/4
Cena/Orton SS 07 - **3/4

King of the Ring 2000 was the very first WWF DVD I ever bought. I enjoy it, but fuck, there isn't exactly much good to it. But then again the KOTR PPV's were usually only 1 match shows anyway. The tournament always left the show with too many matches and not enough time. I liked Angle/Jericho quite a bit though, and Rikishi/Benoit was fun. Main event is decent at best. Worth it for the Shane table spot.


----------



## Punkamaniac (Mar 26, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Speaking of Booker T, What was his best matches in WWE? There's his decent series with Rock in 2001, The great tag team run with Goldust in 2002, match with Triple H at WM19, his series with Benoit in 2005/2006 and the world title reign in 2006.


I quite enjoyed his run as "King Booker" in I think 2006 as well as his tag team with Goldust.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I always liked Cena/Show at Mania XX, It has a *** rating from me. I enjoyed the vast use of power maneuvers by Show and the sneaky Cena win at the end.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena was quite the awesome worker in 2009, he's been pumping out great match after great match week after week. There were like 4 consecutive weeks where he wrestled a ****+* match, something that's usually unheard of when it comes to TV matches. There's even a really good TV match with Edge on here that is one of their better encounters IMO. Plus, we're getting lots of Cena-Jericho and Cena-Big Show, two chemistries that always work well.

John Cena wrestling on Superstars? Now this I gotta see.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You sure do like Cena. :side:

Speaking of Cena, is the Cena/Rock promo from last night as good as people are saying it is?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Solid write up ATF, agree with the rating for Angle/Taker. Had that been at Mania we probably would have got a much better ending (and almost definitely a different winner) and that could have pushed it to five stars.
> 
> @Sharkboy22 - Would you put that Cena/Orton match as your favourite between the two? Or perhaps have Summerslam 2007 higher?


I've yet to see their Summerslam 2007 match as well. I've never really gave the Orton/Cena series a watch tbh. I had enough of their crap in 2009. Only reason I watched NWO was because I heard a lot of great things about it. Likewise, their I-Quit match which I enjoyed a lot as well btw (****1/2). So yeah, the Summerslam 2007 match is definitely a match I've been wanting to see as well cause I heard so much about it. I just never got around to watching it.

Right now, I'm currently having a blast with the Best PPV matches of the year packs on XWT. I don't download the entire pack, just the matches that interest me. I've gone through some stuff from 2002, 2010 and 2011 thus far and I'm working on '05 right now. Once I'm done with that it's onto 2006 and 2008. I don;t see 2007, though  Would love to check out Cena's matches from that year, including the Summerslam vs. Orton match.

So yeah, right now I can't be bothered with looking at random matches on Youtube and Dailymtion. Plus, I when i'm watching matches that I've downloaded I find watching wrestling on Youtube a pain. I don't know why, I just find it better to download the match than to go on Youtube, Worse yet, when it's uploaded in parts.

EDIT: And holy crap I just remembered. I still have that ECW 2006 and 2007 packs to watch that I downloaded since December!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Never cared for any of the Cena/Show matches other than the Smackdown '09 match which is great.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@KOK

I think your giving their matches a little too much credit, Cena did meshed well with Show at times however sometimes their matches completely fell apart. Lesnar, Sheamus and Undertaker have always had the best chemistry with Show.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I thought Cena/Show WM XX was a fun opener. Their SD match is really good as well. They also had a match on RAW last year which I really liked too.

Sheamus/Show :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker/Show series from a few years back was awesome.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> I've yet to see their Summerslam 2007 match as well. I've never really gave the Orton/Cena series a watch tbh. I had enough of their crap in 2009. Only reason I watched NWO was because I heard a lot of great things about it. Likewise, their I-Quit match which I enjoyed a lot as well btw (****1/2). So yeah, the Summerslam 2007 match is definitely a match I've been wanting to see as well cause I heard so much about it. I just never got around to watching it.
> 
> Right now, I'm currently having a blast with the Best PPV matches of the year packs on XWT. I don't download the entire pack, just the matches that interest me. I've gone through some stuff from 2002, 2010 and 2011 thus far and I'm working on '05 right now. Once I'm done with that it's onto 2006 and 2008. I don;t see 2007, though  Would love to check out Cena's matches from that year, including the Summerslam vs. Orton match.
> 
> ...


I use dwhelper for Firefox to download my shit off video sites, Youtube always has lots of full matches and a couple full PPVs. Dailymotion is also a gem for finding matches, Also using google by filtering out everything but videos is another great technique.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I enjoyed Show/Cena WM XX match. Aside from that 09 match I'm not a fan of anything else they've done together. 08/early 09 series with Undertaker blows away anything he did with Cena. Sheamus matches too (though they did get worse as they went along, chairs match wasn't great, but that lumberjack frost match was tremendous). And then the Lesnar matches were a ton of fun.

Watching WM 21. Fuck, such an awesome show for the first half, so easy to sit through (aside from the opener, fuck that pile of turd, and then the divas match but I skipped that anyway). Watching HBK/Angle now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> @KOK
> 
> I think your giving their matches a little too much credit, Cena did meshed well with Show at times however sometimes their matches completely fell apart. Lesnar, Sheamus and Undertaker have always had the best chemistry with Show.


You're completely right about Lesnar and Undertaker, but I'd like to see more out of Sheamus/Big Show before I jump to conclusions. I always thought that Cena and Big Show performed better when it came to their TV matches as fans are generally more tolerant of simplistic stories like Cena-Show in a TV setting rather than something they paid for. 

For instance, I'm watching Cena-Show from 6/22/09 ATM. The story is as simple as it gets ; Cena gets beaten down, Show works a body part and uses his size to destroy Cena (this time targeting a cracked rib), Cena makes a baby face comeback, and then we have a finish. It's not fast paced, it doesn't have alot of MOVEZ, but it doesn't need to... It's a great story that I love.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Big Show's best match with Lesnar was the stretcher one at JD 2003, his best match with Sheamus was at HIAC 2012 and his best match with Taker is probably at CS 2008 in that LMS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive never seen the Taker/Show series from 2008, ill have to check it out after all the talk in here, think i have a couple of their matches on PPV (CS one at least).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Stretcher match is Big Show's best match EVER pretty easily for me. The NWO 2003 match agsinst The Undertaker isn't to be counted against either, his series against The Big Show is an indication of what The Undertaker can do when he's paired with a big man who has, you know.... TALENT.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Taker/Show series was great? Damn, another series I gotta add to the list. I really gotta finish with this 2005 pack. And since I watched some of it, why not throw out some snowflakes.

MITB WM 21 ****1/4
HBK/Angle WM 21 ****3/4
Gurerro/Mysterio WM 21 ***1/4
Guerrero/Mysterio Summerslam 2005 ***3/4
Edge vs Shawn Michaels Royal Rumble 2005 ***1/2
Edge vs Kane Vengeance 2005 ***1/2
Batista vs Triple H Vengeance 2005 ****1/2 (this is one of WWE's most violent matches for sure)
Big Show vs JBL No Way Out 2005 ***1/2
Batista vs JBL Summerslam 2005 ***
Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin Backlash 2005 ****

Still have the Orton/Taker series to watch, HBK/Hogan, Survivor Series tag, some MNM tags, Flair/Carlito, Masters/HBK and HHH/Flair to watch.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> You're completely right about Lesnar and Undertaker, but I'd like to see more out of Sheamus/Big Show before I jump to conclusions. I always thought that Cena and Big Show performed better when it came to their TV matches as fans are generally more tolerant of simplistic stories like Cena-Show in a TV setting rather than something they paid for.
> 
> For instance, I'm watching Cena-Show from 6/22/09 ATM. The story is as simple as it gets ;* Cena gets beaten down, Show works a body part and uses his size to destroy Cena (this time targeting a cracked rib), Cena makes a baby face comeback, and then we have a finish.* It's not fast paced, it doesn't have alot of MOVEZ, but it doesn't need to... It's a great story that I love.


But isn't that your typical Cena sequence? Not taking anything away from him, I do love his work and honestly think he is the greatest worker among the 4 GOATs (Austin, Hogan, Rock and Cena)

It does get annoying though, especially when he does it up against half a ton of humanity.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame the Taker/Show casket match had to suck so fucking bad. The fuck was that shit?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I agree about the stretcher match being one of Show's best. Another one was the LMS with Taker at CS 2008, An underrated gem IMO.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, fuck that casket match.

That's why I love John Boy so much though, his ability to be the FIP and construct comebacks are better than a whole crop of guys. His character work is insanely better than that of a Kurt Angle or hell, even a Shawn Michaels (especially post COKEHBK) and he lets it show through his work. Of course, that's not to say that he's better than Shawn (it's pretty close the way I see it), but rather it means that the one thing he does better than essentially everybody else in the company today bar Mysterio, I value in a performer.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I prefer the NM Undertaker/Show match to the LMS match, ever so slightly though. Both ****, same for the stretcher match with Lesnar and the HIAC match with Sheamus. Show has more ****+ matches than Ziggler. WHO'S THE SHOWOFF NOW? 8*D.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

What about Show/Triple H from NYR 2006? I liked the psychology within the match, however the wrestling was pretty shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just pictured Big Show with that gimmick doing headstands and shit :lol.

Watching Triple H vs John Cena from 6/29/09 (or 7/6/09 the date is kind of screwed up) and it's the only GAME-CENA match I haven't seen at this point I'm pretty sure, really excited to see what it's all about. 

On Big Show again, you have the stretcher match with BROCK, the HIAC match with Sheamus, the 08 series with Undertaker (minus casket match of course), the SD 09 match with Cena, and the 06 series with TRIPLE H as his best matches. Probably the most underrated performer in the WWE today for my money honestly.

LOVE the NYR 2006 match, MOTN by miles and miles and miles and miles (actually no, Trish-Mickie was pretty damn great as well). Hell, I'd go as far as to throw four snowflakes at it although I haven't seen it in a year so no doubt it'd be somewhere in the three and a half to four range. Great, GREAT fucking match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think the HHH NYR match is ****, ***1/2 for it so it's still really fucking good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

With so much 2000 talk here, I decided to take on Cal's Perfect PPV concept and do my own:

*Light Heavyweight Title:* Malenko/S2H BL (****)
*Women's Title:* Ivory/Lita SS (*3/4)
*Hardcore Title:* Shane/Blackman SSlam (***1/4)
*European Title:* Eddie/Saturn FL (***1/4)
*Intercontinental Title:* Benoit/Jericho JD (****1/2)
*Tag Team Titles:* E&C/Dudleys/Hardys SSlam (****3/4)
*Gimmick Match:* Rock/Show NWO (***1/2)
*WWF Title:* HHH/Foley RR (*****)

Ultimely, I agree with a lot of his choices


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I just pictured Big Show with that gimmick doing headstands and shit :lol.
> 
> Watching Triple H vs John Cena from 6/29/09 (or 7/6/09 the date is kind of screwed up) and it's the only GAME-CENA match I haven't seen at this point I'm pretty sure, really excited to see what it's all about.
> 
> ...


Yay, share the love for the underrated. 

Also, Flair/Show ECW is very, very :mark:, Show is fucking awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FORGOT ABOUT THAT ONE.

Then again, I don't care how old Flair gets.... When you're in the ring with the GOAT you're still in the ring with the GOAT. Funny to think that Flair could go to Wrestlemania and still out work most of the roster as his work wasn't really built around his athleticism in the slightest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show Vs Flair, Undertaker and Kane on ECW in 06 are all really good. ***1/2 for Taker and Flair matches, *** for the Kane match. Still makes me laugh a little when people outside this thread say he's a terrible wrestler and should retire and shit.

Show/HHH NYR rematch on Raw is really good too . http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport#.UVHS2hz-WSo uploaded it ages ago for anyone who wants to see it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll take a gander at that one after Wrestlemania if HAITCH retires so I can celebrate his career with a HHH binge, but for right now it's all JOHN CENA and nothing else as I have to support my hero as he heads to NJ on April 7th to take out the ultimate form of evil, Dwayne "The Roid" Johnson. 

For instance, this is some of my dialogue ripped straight from an online conversation with my girlfriend :

"................... Oh god no 

I mean

Watching some Cena matches on Youtube, watching as much CENA as possible until he wins the WWE Championship back from The Roid in two weeks

#WRESTLINGPROBLEMS"

"Man I Salute the Cenationn and adhere to it's three main principles ; Hustle, Loyalty Respecttt, I Rise Above Hate 

I'm talking to you like I talk on Wrestling Forum WTF

WOW"

:lol :lol :lol :lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Show isn't the best performer but he shouldn't retire if he can still put on great/good matches, Add onto your legacy and people will see how good you were, when you do retire. I bet you when he does call it quits, Fans and Smarks (outside this thread of course) will begin to realize how great Show's work was. And, when you factor in his size and limitations, That work changes from great to superb.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Is that Flair vs Show match in ECW from July? Because I'm on that episode right now as Show challenged NAITCH to a title match on Raw after that epic segment with Foley on the titantron.

For great Show matches:

- I've seen the NM and CS matches with Taker and they were both awesome, specially CS.
- HIAC with Sheamus RULES!
- Him and Lesnar could never have a bad match
- Triple H series were good but nothing that blew me away
- I've only seen a few of the Cena matches and WM20 was okay

Really wish he would've gotten to work against Benoit, HBK and Orton in a proper PPV match. The latter is still possible but the former two... fantasy. :sad: The best we got for the former was that epic Royal Rumble finish, though! :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Show works as a big man should, and his ability to work like a great big man and use his size to tell a great story is fantastic. His work is way, way more efficient as a heel due to his strengths (ability to work a good heel control segment) and can only be a really good face if he has some sort of injury or limitation that can be exposed (HHH match @ NYR) or he's going up against another big man and they can just beat the shit out of one another (Ala MARK HENRY).

He's a guy who actually is a far superior worker as a heel though, that's for sure.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Big Show's entire ECW run :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah his character was at it's best then.

What the fuck was up with that PUNJABI PRISON match with The Undertaker though? I haven't seen it in a billion years but I remember it being really fucking underwhelming.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I agree with Alim, His ECW run was awesome.

HBK did have a match with Show for contendership inside the EC at NYR 2006, Show/JBL/Angle is another :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BARBED WIRE STEEL CAGE AGAINST JBL :mark:

Oh God I love that match. The perfect stipulation with the perfect two guys for said stipulation in the main event of a PPV with a fantastic ending.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show/Eddie SD 04 for the title (where Big Show loses his job if he doesn't win the title or something) needs to be mentioned too. Eddie was incredible as the underdog against the giant, while Show was tremendous as, well, the giant just looking to destroy his opponent with the added motivation of everything being on the line.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah his character was at it's best then.
> 
> What the fuck was up with that PUNJABI PRISON match with The Undertaker though? I haven't seen it in a billion years but I remember it being really fucking underwhelming.


i thought it was decent for what it was, That leg drop through the weapons table was sick though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Great Show matches? The July 2012 Raw Main Event match with CM Punk should be mentioned, as well as the Boiler Room Brawl with Mankind and the No DQ match with D-Bry.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Is that the match where afterwards Big Show throws Kurt Angle off of a balcony or some shit onto the concrete floor in a spot that if it actually had to happen would have more than likely crushed his skull and killed him? But instead Angle just shows up in a wheelchair and becomes the GM?

:lol :lol :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> Is that the match where afterwards Big Show throws Kurt Angle off of a balcony or some shit onto the concrete floor in a spot that if it actually had to happen would have more than likely crushed his skull and killed him? But instead Angle just shows up in a wheelchair and becomes the GM?
> 
> :lol :lol :lol


Yep :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My favorite part of Raw :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

And Torrie did some hilarious acting during that segment with Show and "Mr. Angle". :lol



TheWrestlingFan said:


> I agree with Alim, His ECW run was awesome.
> 
> HBK did have a match with Show for contendership inside the EC at NYR 2006, Show/JBL/Angle is another :mark:


But it was way too short. They were doing so well for five or so minutes then HHH came out and got Show disqualified intentionally for their feud.



ATF said:


> Great Show matches? The July 2012 Raw Main Event match with CM Punk should be mentioned, as well as the Boiler Room Brawl with Mankind and the No DQ match with D-Bry.


I hate that Punk match. All I remember from it is Punk doing the shining wizard about ten times then Show gets DQed and Cena runs out for the "save".


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Show/Eddie NM 2003 was good but the overbooked-to-hell finish ruined it for me. 

FORGOTTEN GEM = Taker/Show - SD 2002, Hardcore Match - Hardcore Championship


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

VINTAGE WWE trying to make us suspend our disbelief.

The worst would have to be Game's Survivor Series 2000 fall from like 50 feet in a car that would have crushed all of his internal organs and killed him on impact. I mean, just look at that ; there's no way any human being would come close to surviving that... AND HE WAS ON RAW THE NEXT NIGHT WITH A FEW FUCKING BANDAGES ON. WHAT THE FUCK.

I don't know what's worse... The WWE trying to market somebody who just attempted murder as the top BABYFACE of the company, or the fact that you know..... TRIPLE H SHOWED UP THE NEXT NIGHT WITH MINIMAL DAMAGE.

HE WOULD BE DEAD! :lol :lol :lol


----------



## OldschoolHero (Sep 1, 2008)

Backlash 2002:
Tajiri vs Kidman: 8/10
Bradshaw vs Scott Hall: 4/10
Jazz vs Trish-5/10
Brock Lesnar vs Jeff Hardy: 6/10
Edge vs Kurt Angle: 9/10
Eddie Vs RVD: 7.5/10
Stone Cold vs Undertaker: 6.5/10
Billy And Chuck vs Maven/Al Snow :5/10
Hulk Hogsn vs HHH: 7/0

Honestly, a pretty solid show. Worse match was Hall/Bradshaw. Best match was easily Angle/Edge. Good stuff right there. I liked the two main events although Austin/Taker dragged on and Flair sucked as ref. Youd think he could be a little quicker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hulk Hogan vs Triple H is one of the most dull and boring pieces of shit that I ever ever seen main event a PPV in my entire life. I liken it to Punk vs Roid at the Rumble honestly, a match that's remembered fondly because of it's result even though the match was horrendous.


----------



## Punkamaniac (Mar 26, 2013)

zep81 said:


> My favorite part of Raw :lol


I didn't even know Heyman could run _that_ fast. :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OMG GUYZ JAWN SHEENA VERSUS DA GAME B4 BRAGGING RITES 2009!

CUD B SHEENA'S LAST FIGHT ON RAW EVA IF HE LOOOSES DA IRONMAN MATCH!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Angle/Taker, Smackdown 3/3/2006:* ****1/4. It felt very similar and very physically close, yet also more simple and generic than their instant classic at No Way Out. This long anticipated rematch surely delievered, but it wasn't really a true golden MOTYC as I thought they could, as they were given 22 minutes to rock the Goddamn world and I'm really certain they didn't do their best. Their Smackdown '03 match blew this one out of the water, to be honest. The wrestling was still phenomenal, with a lot of emphasis and lot of the psychology now based on Angle simply trying to survive Taker rather than attack him with all his tank in force to make him officially tap for the 1st time in his career. There wasn't as much finisher overkill (especially for Angle's side), but that was made up with an overall slower pace than the one from No Way Out - it really seemed like they were told to get their NWO match, cut 8 minutes off it and make it less wild wrestling and more "tamed entertainment". The finisher set-up the Casket match at WM 22 nicely. Very good match, if not a damn great one, but not on par with their best ones.

*Angle/Rey/Orton, WrestleMania 22:* ***. For the second straight year, a *** match in a WM card. Things will surely get better over the next two years though mark. This was essentially a spotfest, since '06 Angle and prime Rey together in a hostile environment like WM-Chicago together could only blend that kind of match, with Orton in between to bring the crispiness. Although for a spotfest, it was quite fun and did have a couple of psychology-driven moments (such as Rey and Orton both blindfolding the ref when the other was tapping out to the Ankle Lock). It was 9 minutes, and that's an astronomically low amount of time for a World Heavyweight Title match at Mania, ESPECIALLY for a Triple Threat - but still, could be worse... could be 18 seconds fpalm Rey won for the lulz and to fullfil his dream, yuppie I guess for him. Moving on.

*Rey/Orton, Smackdown 4/7/2006:* ****1/4. Is it just me, or THIS is the match we should've gotten at 'Mania, and Angle/Taker happening there as well? Because these two matches plus MITB, HBK/Vince, Cena/HHH, Trish/Mickie, Benoit/JBL and Foley/Edge would make for one of, if not the GOAT WrestleMania. This was pretty dope. Terrific psychology as Orton tried to haunt Rey with Eddie (as he had through most of that horrendous exploitful storyline). Some awesome counters, the pace of the match flows extremely well, the storytelling is great too with Rey, the greatest underdog ever, going through Orton with all he had. Really good crowd as well. Smackdown in 2006 had a lot of good stuff (Benoit/Orton saga, Benoit/Finlay, Taker/Angle...), but imo this was the best one. Great match.

*NEXT:* The real rematch clause happens, rich cowboy meets masked midget, and rich cowboy is forced into retirement...


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

How would you guys rate Cena as a worker among the 4 GOATs, Here is how i would.

1. Cena
2. Austin
3. Rock
4. Hogan

Cena slings out of Austin's rank by an inch for his longevity. I think KOK will rank Rocky last, Just because of pure hatred. :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Are we talking ENTIRE career work here, or just when that individual was the top guy in the company?

Because my rankings will fluctuate based on the criteria .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd put Austin above Cena, but besides that the list is as you put it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That would imply that Cena is on the level of those other 3?

Obviously Austin is the best worker of that list.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah.

Why would you mention CENA amongst the likes of mere mortals such as Steve Austin?

:cena4


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Are we talking ENTIRE career work here, or just when that individual was the top guy in the company?
> 
> Because my rankings will fluctuate based on the criteria .


Entire career work, i'm guessing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rey vs Orton from Smackdown is such an awesome match. Easy 4 and a quarter.

1. STONE COLD
2. CENA/ROCK
4. HULKSTER

Can't decide between 2 and 3 but after them, Hulk is a distant number four.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena as a worker compared to the 4 GOATs?

Flair
Undertaker
Benoit
Eddie










Cena.

What? I ain't in agreement with your GOAT list .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Entire Career Work?

1. Steve Austin
2. John Cena



4974364. The Rock
4974365. Hulk Hogan

.


EDIT. CAL PLEASE TELL ME MYSTERIO IS 5.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Dammit, Why would i do that, I'm such a dummy. Cena on his best days can't lace the boots of Austin, Rocky or Hogan even though his a 10 time WWE champion and the top guy for 8 years running now. Even Scotty too FREAKIN' hotty is above him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You do realize title reigns are scripted, right? They're a fabricated accomplishment. Really has nothing to do with his ability as a worker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KOK, just to relieve your fantasies...






:austin :cena4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

1. Ric Flair

Rey Mysterio
Chris Benoit
Bret Hart
Eddie Guerrero
The Undertaker
Randy Savage
Steve Austin
Ricky Steamboat
Terry Funk

After #1 everything gets a little hazy....


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Cena as a worker compared to the 4 GOATs?
> 
> Flair
> Undertaker
> ...


I'm talking about the official list that WWE has been trying to shove down our throats for the past 10 years. If it was my personal list. It would go something like this:

Undertaker
HBK
Eddie 
Benoit 
Mysterio
Bret
Punk
Malenko
Savage
Owen


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have no idea who I'd have after Flair. Undertaker, Benoit, Eddie, Backlund, Bret, Mysterio, Steamboat, Funk, Tenryu, Michaels, Austin, Vader, Arn, Windham, Lawler and a few others would all be fighting for a top 10 spot.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 10 favourites in-ring:

Austin
HBK
Taker
Savage
Flair
Mysterio
Eddie
Bret
Benoit
Jericho


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1. Chris Benoit

10 and below. the rest of the list which includes guys like Eddie, HBK, Undertaker, Bret, Rey, Flair, Austin and so on.

Can't make a proper list, though, because I need to watch more classics, SPECIALLY of Flair. But I do know one thing and that's Benoit's #1 spot will NEVER be overtaken by anyone.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK.

Backlund, Vader, and HBK would be in my top 20. Haven't seen enough of Jerry Lawler or Tenryu, ARN is awesome as well.

Don't know where I'd put the present guys to be honest. Cena/Bryan/Punk would all be somewhere from 15-30 more than likely with Triple H coming up just short of the Top 1000.

:lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Anyone else feel that if Rock was facing anybody but Cena @ Mania in NY/NJ he'd be getting booed?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> You do realize title reigns are scripted, right? They're a fabricated accomplishment. Really has nothing to do with his ability as a worker.


I do know that, I guess that also makes Rock, Austin and Hogan's title reigns completely fabricated and in sense worthless, yes? To your second point, Title reigns actually do have a point when it to comes to being a worker or working a match cause if your holding a title, your gonna wanna represent your placement as the top guy to the best extent possible thus working matches to the best of your abilities. Your not gonna go out there, have a shitty match then come back and say "Hey Vince, Hope you loved my performance tonight cause your gonna be getting that every title match i have" 

You will get stripped of the title and demoted to the womens division. LOL.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I do know that, I guess that also makes Rock, Austin and Hogan's title reigns completely fabricated and in sense worthless, yes?


Fabricated? Yes. Worthless? No.



> To your second point, Title reigns actually do have a point when it to comes to being a worker or working a match cause if your holding a title, your gonna wanna represent your placement as the top guy to the best extent possible thus working matches to the best of your abilities. Your not gonna go out there, have a shitty match then come back and say "Hey Vince, Hope you loved my performance tonight cause your gonna be getting that every title match i have"


Three words: The Great Khali. Hogan was an awful wrestler but knew how to work a crowd. His charisma is what got him by. His ability to "work" a match is a different story.



> You will get stripped of the title and demoted to the womens division. LOL.


What?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Anyone else feel that if Rock was facing anybody but Cena @ Mania in NY/NJ he'd be getting booed?


If he was taking on Punk? Boo'ed out of the building.

Lesnar? Boo'ed out of the building.

ANYBODY besides the most polarizing man in WWE history? Boo'ed out of the building.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> If he was taking on Punk? Boo'ed out of the building.
> 
> Lesnar? Boo'ed out of the building.
> 
> ANYBODY besides the most polarizing man in WWE history? Boo'ed out of the building.


Exactly. I find it interesting that he's literally facing the one guy that will prevent him from getting booed mercilessly.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Hogan didn't need workrate. That's never what he was about and he was perfectly fine as WWF or WCW Champion whether he was the top babyface or heel. His charisma, personality, and impeccable knowledge on how to control a crowd was/is virtually unmatched. One of the best ever and one of my all time favorite wrestlers ever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Clique said:


> Hogan didn't need workrate. That's never what he was able and he was perfectly fine as WWF or WCW Champion whether he was the top babyface or heel. His charisma, personality, and impeccable knowledge on how to control a crowd was/is virtually unmatched. One of the best ever and one of my all time favorite wrestlers ever.


This. Hogan should be nowhere near a discussion of best "workrate." Guy didn't need it. Simple as that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Clique said:


> Hogan didn't need workrate. That's never what he was about and he was perfectly fine as WWF or WCW Champion whether he was the top babyface or heel. His charisma, personality, and impeccable knowledge on how to control a crowd was/is virtually unmatched. One of the best ever and one of my all time favorite wrestlers ever.


YOU ARE CORRECT SIR.

:hogan


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

> Three words: The Great Khali. Hogan was an awful wrestler but knew how to work a crowd. His charisma is what got him by. Him ability "work" a match is a different story.


Khali's matches weren't that bad during his WHC title reign. I would easily give his GAB match a ***, his UF match a ***1/2 and his NM match a **1/2. He was much badder during his times without the title. 

As for Hogan. When i talk about working a match, I look at everything that involves "working" whether it be crowd interaction, actual wrestling or in-ring psychology. So in essence, "working" the crowd is also the "working" the match.



> What?[


It was sarcasm hence the LOL but you obviously wouldn't get the bright end of the stick, if you know what i mean.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Do you wanna know who Cena should feud with over the WWE Championship Post-Mania?

Jack Swagger. Their TV match chemistry is ON POINT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry needs to feud with Cena resulting in a few PPV matches. Odds are he will lose at WM to Ryback, so to put that behind him he can go on a path of destruction that ends with Cena trying to stop him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Khali's matches weren't that bad during his WHC title reign. I would easily give his GAB match a ***, his UF match a ***1/2 and his NM match a **1/2. He was much badder during his times without the title.


Hope you're joking. And if his matches were passable it definitely wasn't his doing. Ever heard of a carryjob? Star ratings don't justify anything.



> As for Hogan. When i talk about working a match, I look at everything that involves "working" whether it be crowd interaction, actual wrestling or in-ring psychology. So in essence, "working" the crowd is also the "working" the match.


So you admit that Hogan couldn't wrestle? At least we agree on something.



> It was sarcasm hence the LOL but you obviously wouldn't get the bright end of the stick, if you know what i mean.


Insulting me won't get you anywhere.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Do you wanna know who Cena should feud with over the WWE Championship Post-Mania?
> 
> Jack Swagger. Their TV match chemistry is ON POINT.


Meh on the Swagger suggestion. Antonio, I know i would get a lot of hate for this, saying his not main event material and yadi yaa but he doesn't necessarily have to win the title cause it would have already pushed him tremendously to be in a feud of Cena's caliber and could make for a great match/es (even if they do one PPV).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

> Hope you're joking. And if his matches were passable it definitely wasn't his doing. Ever heard of a carryjob? Star ratings don't justify anything.


Batista and Kane aren't exactly good carriers or ones to carry a match. Khali did pull his weight around during those matches.




> So you admit that Hogan couldn't wrestle? At least we agree on something.


Hogan could wrestle but Vince didn't want him to do any hasty stuff that could injure him or put him on the shelf for awhile. His Japan and his earlier matches were very good, In my opinion. 




> Insulting me won't get you anywhere.


Insulting you? Buddy, you need to calm down a little bit. I was only pointing out an understanding issue which you made when you replied to me. Hardly an insult.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Batista and Kane aren't exactly good carriers or ones to carry a match. Khali did pull his weight around during those matches.


Batista and Kane can work a match just fine.



> Hogan could wrestle but Vince didn't want him to do any hasty stuff that could injure him or put him on the shelf for awhile. His Japan and his earlier matches were very good, In my opinion.


Clearly we're talking WWE, hence why I said Hogan got by on charisma alone, not ring work. I think we're in agreement here.



> Insulting you? Buddy, you need to calm down a little bit. I was only pointing out an understanding issue which you made when you replied to me. Hardly an insult.


Claiming that I lack the intelligence to pick up on your sarcasm isn't exactly endearing. I took it as an insult. I'm pretty sure anyone else would interpret it similarly.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished rewatching THE ROCK/Cena segment from last night. Still awesome second time around.

Starts off a bit slow with Cena talking about some quarterback (seriously, fuck gridiron) which I wasn't into at all but then when Booker T asks his question and Cena goes "Because I have to", it really gets great and intense. ROCK mocking that answer with "How about you wipe a monkey's ass with 'I have to'?" was also great. Then Cena starting to act heelish and delusional... :mark: The intensity picks up and the fact that they tease and deliver with some physicality instead of just talking and smiling in each other's faces... I really love it.

If Cena indeed turns heel, chances are WWE can really get back on track after the horrible 2012 and this boring Road to WM.

Not surprised that Cal is his usual self by mindlessly hating on it, though. ROCK probably used two catchphrases over the course of 20 minutes and the "monkey's ass" line was good IMO.



> Claiming that I lack the intelligence to pick up on your sarcasm isn't exactly endearing. I took it as an insult. I'm pretty sure anyone else would interpret it similarly.


I thought the same but what he meant was you wouldn't get anything good out of half-assing with the "bright end of the stick" part.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would rather not contaminate this thread further. 

Changing subject:

Chances of SHIELD winning @ Mania? I'd say fairly high. They've been protected superbly and I sense a heel turn by Orton/Sheamus costing that trio the match.

edit Never heard that phrase before so the way it was worded in that context made me think it was offensive. My mistake.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished rewatching THE ROCK/Cena segment from last night. Still awesome second time around.
> 
> *The Roid mocking that answer with "How about you wipe a monkey's ass with 'I have to'?" was TERRIBLE*.


My thoughts on that one.

The SHIELD better fucking win. If anybody's ending the Shield you just know it's going to be Cena (not even a joke, he's probably going to form some alliance to take them out at some point, or by himself one by one).


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished rewatching THE ROCK/Cena segment from last night. Still awesome second time around.
> *
> Starts off a bit slow with Cena talking about some quarterback (seriously, fuck gridiron) which I wasn't into at all*


That was some of the funniest shit I have ever heard in my life. Only Cena.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wouldn't mind Orton's team to end THE SHIELD's dominance just because it would get him some more momentum but I'd much rather he turns heel and costs them the match.



The Lady Killer said:


> edit Never heard that phrase before so the way it was worded in that context made me think it was offensive. My mistake.


Neither have I, but it just seemed out of nowhere for it to be an insult so I looked for a different interpretation that made sense.



KingOfKings said:


> My thoughts on that one.


How about you wipe a monkey's ass with your thoughts?  :rock4


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

> Batista and Kane can work a match just fine.


But Khali played his role fine, His matches didn't entirely consist of carrying.



> Clearly we're talking WWE, hence why I said Hogan got by on charisma alone, not ring work. I think we're in agreement here.


Hogan did have a few great wrestling gems in WWE but we are in the agreement here. His charisma, crowd interaction and storytelling is really what made the matches special.




> Claiming that I lack the intelligence to pick up on your sarcasm isn't exactly endearing. I took it as an insult. I'm pretty sure anyone else would interpret it similarly.


I corrected you, I didn't claim you lacked intelligence. If i did, please do quote the sentence stating you did.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I swear to GOD he can't go through one promo without resorting to that nonsense. Everything was going perfectly fine until BAM! Monkey's ass.

Fuck the Roid.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Although, I shouldn't shortchange Cena on the promo front. The one where he called John Lauranitis a "loser" 25 time different times in different, corny voices is up there. As is pre-Rumble one. :cena3


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Late of course

I can't judge him by ppv performance as I can't remember certain matches (triple threat at WM 17 stands out), but I think Big Show plays his part fine both in the ring and while rocking the mic. Bar last year and maybe the year before, I can't say I was ever filled with rage whenever Big Show was on camera.

Edit: Six pack challenge at Unforgiven 98 (I believe)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena has his bad share of promos, but he can at least get through ONE without degenerating to the lowest common form of humor. I haven't seen a single Roid promo since 2003 that was completely 100 percent serious and not made out to be some "entertainment/JOKES" hybrid that attempts to appeal to AGAIN, the lowest common denominator.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena has his bad share of promos, but he can at least get through ONE without degenerating to the lowest common form of humor. I haven't seen a single Roid promo since 2003 that was completely 100 percent serious and not made out to be some "entertainment/JOKES" hybrid that attempts to appeal to AGAIN, the lowest common denominator.


Saying "monkey ass" once in last night's promo isn't nearly the same as the Cena-Laurinitis "loser" promo which was at least 10 minutes long, nor the pre-Rumble one. I can handle a slip here or there by either guy, not one that last entire for the entire promo. Those two example of Cena's promos are just as bad if not worse than Rock's lowest common denominator.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> But Khali played his role fine, His matches didn't entirely consist of carrying.


My original point (if I even had one) was to use Khali as an example of someone who can't necessarily "work" a match in the acknowledged sense of the word. Hogan made up for this with charisma, something Khali also lacks. I guess ultimately I was using Khali as an example of a champion who really didn't bring much of anything to the table to extrapolate on why title reigns are gifted, not necessarily always earned.



> Hogan did have a few great wrestling gems in WWE but we are in the agreement here. His charisma, crowd interaction and storytelling is really what made the matches special.


Agreed, Hogan could tell a great story in the ring given his limited WWE wrestling style. Again, my original point was that you won't find Hogan's name alongside the likes of Benoit or Eddie when discussing "workrate" (fuck, I hate that term).



> I corrected you, I didn't claim you lacked intelligence. If i did, please do quote the sentence stating you did.


Yeah, think I mistook your comment for something offensive.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

There's no reason for Shield to lose at mania. Its not like any member of BigWhite Snake need the win.


If they didn't lose to a team with Cena/Ryback on it they don't need to on this occasion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

As I said before, Cena is BAD at times.

At least he can put some passion into what he does, we've all seen it numerous times with Rock, Punk, or WHOEVER over the last two years or so. Cena's great on the mic but like anybody, he has a few misses every now and then and sometimes it gets ugly.

Compare that to The Roid ; When was the last time he cut a promo that was 100 percent serious? As in, there wasn't at least one moment where he drifted off and said something like "Fruity Pebbles" or "Monkey's Ass"? .... He DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO BE 100 PERCENT SERIOUS AND IT FUCKING ANNOYS THE SHIT OUT OF ME. It's like he shows up and says "Oh, I have a promo on RAW tonight? What jokes can I tell that will make people laugh?" instead of "How are we going to make this COMPELLING TELEVISION?"


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BANKSY said:


> If they didn't lose to a team with Cena/Ryback on it they don't need to in this occasion.


This is my take on it. Much like Taker/Punk, Shield vs Sheamus/Orton/Show seems like a step down from their previous encounters. If Taker can beat HBK and HHH, and the Shield can beat Cena/Ryback/Sheamus, what's to make us think Punk can beat Taker and Sheamus/Orton/Show can beat Shield?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Compare that to The Roid ; When was the last time he cut a promo that was 100 percent serious? As in, there wasn't at least one moment where he drifted off and said something like "Fruity Pebbles" or "Monkey's Ass"? .... He DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO BE 100 PERCENT SERIOUS AND IT FUCKING ANNOYS THE SHIT OUT OF ME. It's like he shows up and says "Oh, I have a promo on RAW tonight? What jokes can I tell that will make people laugh?" instead of "How are we going to make this COMPELLING TELEVISION?"


That has always been Rock's style, though. The difference is that his jokes aren't as funny and are a bit watered down given the PG environment (and him seemingly mailing in his appearances).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Speaking of promos, I just watched the last Punk/Triple H promo before their match at NOC. It's funny how smark/IWC related it is, to be specific, Punk mentions how only guys with muscular physiques get the main event spots and how he has gotten little opportunities over the 6 years, he's been here. Triple H did his thing but seemed a little unsteady about what he was going to say, It was still all gold though. Very smark /IWC orientated, Was wondering does Punk write and say all his stuff? Does he have a recap with Vince, to see what is allowed and what's not?


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Picked up Brian Pillman "Loose Canon" and Eddie Guerrero "stealing life" dvd's yesterday for £5 in total from CEX. Bargains. Documentaries are both good although I thought that Pillman's was superior. Going to watch the matches tonight, not sure which DVD I'll choose first :hmm:



KingOfKings said:


> Cena has his bad share of promos, but he can at least get through ONE without degenerating to the lowest common form of humor. I haven't seen a single Roid promo since 2003 that was completely 100 percent serious and not made out to be some "entertainment/JOKES" hybrid that attempts to appeal to AGAIN, the lowest common denominator.


What about the promo he did with Miz/Riley where he was talking about them saving dog poop bags, peeing in milk jugs and riding tandem bikes? You know, the type of homophobic guff that Rock usually comes out with.

Having said that, he's not _usually_ anywhere near that bad, even when he is bad.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

At least Rock is consistent with his style. Yeah he does jokes/catchphrases in all his work but thats who is as a performer.

Its much worse when Cena feels the need to be serious once or twice a year when hes feuding with big stars. 

Where was serious Cena when Ziggler beat him and stole his girlfriend? :cena


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I've seen Cena try to be funny tons of times, as well. Cena is rarely 100% serious, as well. Hell, that's what people have been complaining about for years is that we don't see serious Cena enough. I don't mind a wrestler bringing some comedic value to a promo sometimes. Rock's got so many hilarious promos in the bank from the Attitude Era that I could live with him at least attempting to bring something new to the table with Cena. I'd love see him bring Cena's steroid use to the table. That'd be fun. :cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena can be TERRIBLE at times but he's usually solid.

That's why I never enjoyed The Rock though. I made a thread once upon a time giving him credit but I specifically say in it that I've never been a fan of The Rock and I wanted to prove that I could be objective and give Rock credit for the matches that he actually WAS good in.

When it comes to the Rock his charisma is what carried him, never really cared for what came out of his mouth, the charisma that oozes out of him carries some of the nonsense that he says on a regular basis.

I don't think THE ROID out of all fucking people should be bringing up ANYTHING about STEROIDS :lol :lol :lol :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena can be TERRIBLE at times but he's usually solid.
> 
> That's why I never enjoyed The Rock though. I made a thread once upon a time giving him credit but I specifically say in it that I've never been a fan of The Rock and I wanted to prove that I could be objective and give Rock credit for the matches that he actually WAS good in.
> 
> When it comes to the Rock his charisma is what carried him, never really cared for what came out of his mouth, the charisma that oozes out of him carries some of the nonsense that he says on a regular basis.


Ah ok, fair enough. See, to me that is different and completely understandable. People have people who they don't like, as do I. Completely understandable if you were never a fan of the guy to begin with. Didn't know that, though.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*"I don't think THE ROID out of all fucking people should be bringing up ANYTHING about STEROIDS"
*

Oh, come on! Seeing two steroid users argue over steroid use could be fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll give him credit for the things I did enjoy him in such as his career night @ Wrestlemania XIX in which he put on his GOAT performance and GOAT promo all in the same night, but I'll throw out constant hate for the shit that he has done that I can't stand such as.... Mostly everything else :lol.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I'll give him credit for the things I did enjoy him in such as his career night @ Wrestlemania XIX in which he put on his GOAT performance and GOAT promo all in the same night, but I'll throw out constant hate for the shit that he has done that I can't stand such as.... Mostly everything else :lol.


That's cool. Even back then, Rock was never a favorite of mine, but I'll be damned if I didn't find his promos from back then entertaining. I did. Haven't been a fan of his current run all that much. I wish he would go back to being The Rock and not some Dwayne Johnson hybrid. Corporate Rock is one of the most entertaining characters of all time. But that's obviously not going to happen. Last night was pretty good, though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't think THE ROID out of all fucking people should be bringing up ANYTHING about STEROIDS :lol :lol :lol :lol


He has not cheated by using steroids, though. He's in the entertainment business where its use is just making his movies look better. Lance Armstrong cheated others out of their hard work in a competitive sport. Don't think you can compare the two and ROCK still had a valid point.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I was thinking today about how much talent is in the DDP House. With Jake "The Snake" Roberts, Scott Hall & "Diamond" Dallas Page. They all had insane finishers too, with the original DDT, Diamond Cutter & Razor's Edge.

Is there anyway we can send Heath Slater to the DDP House with some rolling cameras? 

Being in that house, can you imagine the wrestling conversation? Man.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The fact that it's blatantly obvious coupled with the fact that he more than likely doesn't even get tested is probably why people pay so much attention to the fact that he's on The Roids.

Anyways, just watched a pretty decent Sheamus-Cena encounter from early 2010 that ends with tweener Orton coming in and trying to take everybody out only for Cena to run wild on his ass. CENAMANIA BROTHER.

:hogan :cena4


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I'll give him credit for the things I did enjoy him in such as his career night @ *Wrestlemania XIX* in which he put on his GOAT performance and *GOAT prom*o all in the same night, but I'll throw out constant hate for the shit that he has done that I can't stand such as.... Mostly everything else :lol.


Funnily enough I was just about to suggest that :lol

While not being an amazing promo, his Royal Rumble 2013 pre-match promo proved that he could get through an interview without spouting juvenile nonsense...at least I think he did anyway!

Despite all of that, there's no doubt that Rock's "full time" return has been awful from an in-ring perspective, his promos haven't been much better either.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Any good Rock N Roll Express matches?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I seriously can't talk about The Roid right now, my head might explode.

Anyways, back to JOHN CENA. Gotta love how he absolutely squashes both members of Legacy during the early weeks of 2010 in a combined under 3 minutes and then both Rhodes and Teddy are supposed to look like threats to Orton at Wrestlemania. Cena really doesn't give a fuck, he's going to bury you, your father, your mother, hell... EVEN YOUR GRANDMOTHER.

rton


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Any good Rock N Roll Express matches?


Yeah, pretty much any of them. Because Ricky Morton is that good. Probably want to check out their feud with the Midnight Express. Bobby Eaton was certainly no slouch.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Coffey said:


> Yeah, pretty much any of them. Because Ricky Morton is that good. Probably want to check out their feud with the Midnight Express. Bobby Eaton was certainly no slouch.



Awesome. (Y)


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Can't recall a RnR/MidEx that I'd call a classic match, tbf. But I haven't got into 87 & 88. I'd recommend Arn & Ole vs RnR. Great American Bash 86.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Seing some discussion about Cena's promo and his role at Wrestlemania.. thought i'd post this here for potentially good discussion. 


Here's a theory I shared with HayleySabin months back when Cena first got beat down by the Shield.



> I have a theory on Rock and Cena, which will lead into my thoughts on why Rock is tenacious with his character direction. I said this before, and I know people disagree with it, but I truly feel that WWE are going to pull the trigger on Cena's heel turn (or face turn as i'd call it) at Mania. I also think he'll allign himself with the Shield which is hard to believe since he's feuding with them atm. I think it makes perfect sense, John is not getting any younger, and WWE knows that a turn is an Ace up their sleeves. The Shield's mantra is injustice, and John has plenty of ammo to throw around at the fans for treating him unjustly. Seems like the Shield's integration has been a gradual slow build, I think it will culminate with the John Cena shocker. This is the WWE so you can't count on them to take too many chances, but times are changing, and the program has to evolve accordingly. The WWE surely aren't stupid, they know that no one wants to see a Cena road to redemption fairy tale ending aside from from the niche that consists of Cena's diehard fanbase. They know that people will shit on the feud, and would dump a complete proverbial load if Cena came out on top. I think this is a necessary evil for them to effectively turn John by having him beat Rock by "doing what it takes". He's already got a built in history with Rock, and that first loss chewed him up inside, so he'd be taking the low road if it meant that he'd pull off the unthinkable.. defeat the Rock at Mania. If Hogan's heel turn proved anything, it's that no one is impervious to an "attitude adjustment" (no pun intended), and that it can work wonders in turning a company around.
> 
> My guess is that the current Cena/Shield filler feud is there to deceive us, right now no one suspects it since John is being physical with them.. but, it's not treated as a main program, and something of this caliber in theory should have more build so that alone raises a flag. If my theory is true, Rock NEEDS to stay on the fan's good side to go into this the fan favorite. he needs to be the sympathetic character, so staving away from taking too many chances is wise.
> 
> If my theory is wrong, and this is all a set up to give Cena his win back with no paradigm shift and meaningful long-term payoff.. then fuck this company.



This is what I think after the promo last night on RAW.



If Cena was ever to turn heel, there would have to be a legitimately good reason for it, something to drive him over the edge. In that promo he sold how much the first loss ate him up inside, and his conspring with the Shield to get retribution is indicative of a man that will d exactly what it takes for history not to repeat itself. He knows that this is his only chance to right the wrong and become "the man", that alone is enough of a motivation factor to "do what it takes", even at the expense of turning his back on the fans, fans that has given him enough built up ammunition over the years for him to completely unload on them in a big way. His legacy will ultimately be more important than staying loyal to his fans and those that have turned their backs on him. The Rock dynamic is exactly the type of push that would drive a guy like that mad. You can already tell by his mannerisms, the facial expressions as he adressed the Rock and the crowd in Philly. Notice the smug arrogance of Cena throughout that promo, his line " I want to give the Rock a loss so devastating that it will haunt him for the rest of his life" is exactly what would happen if it culminated in the Shield screwing him out of the title, so that could've been his cryptic message. Notice how he speaks about Donovan McNabb in a very heelish tone, even takes the time to pause and let the chorus of boos reasonate throughout the arena, the way he executed his promo was very reminiscent of a megalomaniacal Dictator, and the way he tells Rock that he is better than him was thrown with the look of someone with nefarious intent. They clearly went all out in that promo to make Rock into the sympathetic character, and they way Cena played his part was brilliant for his standards.

Other things I noticed, he got a very cheap looking yellow shirt weeks before Wrestlemania when it recently became tradition that he introduces a new colour at the actual show. Notice how he still has the same jocks and wristbands, very lazy new design, and you can tell that it isn't a hot item by the lack of people wearing the shirt in the crowd. This might not be too much to look into, but notice his pale complexion and his lack of enthusiam. I truly think that Cena is subtly preparing for his heel run while slowly transitioning into it in a believable way. Also, just try to imagine him holding that new belt design with his new attire, aesthetically that isn't even imaginable.. but with the Shield SWAT gear? Brilliant fit.

As for the Shield, the mystery of their origin still remains, it was adressed in the last several months but now they've been whisper quiet on this. I think they're just trying to make us forget about it, and the fact that they have the 3 Shield members in a meaningless role when before that they were the most interesting storyarc developement is another major flag. I'm convinced that this is a fresh new take on the NWO concept, and with John Cena's history with the fans, it just writes itself beautifully. I can't even remotely imagine them NOT going that direction. The timing is perfect, the logic behind it is perfect and the people involved is perfect. The last 2 years would instantly be justified and the WWE could ride this for a very long time as a proverbial stamp on a new era which we've seen coming as of late. If they don't go through with this, it would be the single biggest failed opportunity ever since there's no better circumstances to turn Cena heel no matter how hard they tried, this is the most natural and believable way to do it. His turn is inevitable, and it needs to happen now while he still has a few good years left, I just can't wrap my brain around this not happening.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Rey/Angle, Smackdown 4/28/2006:* ***1/4. This was very good, but when this one was over, I personally thought "Well, I've seen an Angle vs. Rey match, and I think I've saw the same". Only that this "same" is far longer, and far inferior to be honest. Their superior match, which I'm referring to, is their SummerSlam 2002 instant classic, and this one, while pretty good, felt more of just "same old thing" in the genre of wrestling that involves these two, if you know what I mean. Because it was Rey and Angle, it could've only been good - big shocker. Especially when you consider it had Rey in 2006. But the general feel of "could've been a lot better" is there and it makes a campsite within. The London crowd wasn't lively until about the 2nd half of the match, which also hurt the rating a bit. It just didn't feel great in my opinion, which is bad when you have two guys the caliber of these two in the ring.

*Rey/JBL, Judgment Day 2006:* ***3/4. Unlike the Rey/Angle match, this is a great one that really didn't have the makings of a great one on paper. Rey and Bradshaw had already showed some excellent chemistry before, for example in their match at No Mercy 2005, they got me into a very entertaining trip that was their match in said show. But that one was just a hideous midcard match. This was for the World Heavyweight Title, and it was even more awesome. JBL, being the king of cheap heat, was a dick in this match by utterly bullying Rey in the 1st few instances. Rey, the ever loving gladiator he is, simply fought back JBL's bullying, much like he had loved to do so since Bradshaw began his Rey hunting schemes (the squashes vs. Khali, Kane, Henry, etc.). The pace is really good, so is the storytelling. The selling is a bit off, but that's to be expected with JBL. This match is very good, perhaps Rey's 2nd best as World Champion (behind the 4/7/06 classic vs. Orton). Although it lost a point for Chavo fucking Guerrero... ugh. Gotta hand mad props to Benoit and Rey: they had good matches with Chavo later this year. Incredible.

*Rey/JBL, Smackdown 5/26/2006:* ***1/2. It was a bit more off than their Judgment Day match, but it did improve on the heat. Maybe for the fact that this would be JBL's last match until January 2008, where he'd team up with Snitsky to face Y2J (Raw Roulette 2008). And it was no injury, it was a supposed retirement match, which lead to JBL's "demise" to commentary. For that alone, this one got a quarter of a star bumped, because JBL on the commentary is GOAT. This was more basic than their previous bout, as it was good ol' big guy bullies small guy for most of the match, small guy comes back sometimes and gets hit back, small guy recovers and wins the match. Nothing more, nothing else. Good crowd, too. Really, not much to add here.

*UPDATED WHC MATCH RANKINGS (MID-2006):
Batista/JBL, The Great American Bash 2005 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
Angle/Henry, Royal Rumble 2006 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
Batista/JBL, Smackdown 9/9/2005 (**)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
Batista/Edge, Raw 5/23/2005 (**1/2)
Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005 (**1/2)
20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 1/13/2006 (**3/4)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
Angle/Rey/Orton, WrestleMania 22 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
Rey/Angle, Smackdown 4/28/2006 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
Rey/JBL, Smackdown 5/26/2006 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Rey/JBL, Judgment Day 2006 (***3/4)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Batista/Eddie, No Mercy 2005 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Angle/Taker, Smackdown 3/3/2006 (****1/4)
Rey/Orton, Smackdown 4/7/2006 (****1/4)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****1/2)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Batista/HHH, Vengeance 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
Angle/Taker, No Way Out 2006 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)*​
*NEXT*: "Midget" meets THAT'SWHATHEDOESBITCH, a new reign kickstarts (SUCKAAAA), and the peasant who defied that new reign wrestles the ruler again...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I started watching all the WM's yesterday, seen the first 3 until this very moment.:

WM 1:

Santana/Executioner- **
Bundy/Jones- N/A
Borne/Steamboat- **1/4
D.Sammartino/Beefcake- DUD
Junkyard Dog/Valentine- **
Andre/Studd- *
Richter/Kai- **3/4
Hogan&T/Piper&Orndorff- ***- first WM main-event gotta give a big rating 

WM 2:

Orndorff/Muraco- DUD
Steele/Savage- **1/2
J.Roberts/Wells- DUD
Mr.T/Piper- *
Volkoff/Kirschner- DUD
Battle Royal- **1/4
B.Bulldogs/Dream Team- ***
Steamboat/Hercules- **1/2
Adonis/Elmer- N/A
J.Dog&Santana/Funks- **3/4
Hogan/Bundy- **

Wrestlemania 3:

C.A.C/Orton&Muraco- **1/2
Hercules/Haynes- **
6 Man Tag Match- DUD
J.Dog/Harley race- *
R.Brothers/Dream Team- *1/4
Adonis/Piper- **1/4
Hart F&davis/Santana&B.Bulldogs- **1/2
Reed/Ware- N/A
Savage/Steamboat- *****
J.Roberts/Honky- **3/4
Sheik&Volkoff/K.Bees- DUD
Hogan/Andre- ***3/4- for the history, the match was awful


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well...

That would explain the reason behind THE SHIELD being the only stable in WWE history to NOT be buried by Cena, and the reason why they've looked like the most brutal force in recent memory ; CENA BABY!

If CENA came out in a vest and pronounced himself as the leader of The Shield..... I wouldn't be able to log onto Wrestling Forum for a while... My excitement would drive me insane.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I don't like that idea at all. If you put someone else in the Shield, someone like Cena or Orton, they take the top dog spot & the current Shield members become after-thought henchmen. I think it takes a lot away from Ambrose, Rollins & Reigns. They're better off on their own, to me. Let them fly on their own.

Cena could just as easily turn heel without having it have anything to do with The Shield. That makes more sense from a continuity stand point anyway, as you pointed out, since Cena has not only feuded with The Shield but taken beatdowns from them.

As Wade Keller has mentioned, The Shield sort of work right now like the Freebirds used to. I wouldn't mess with it because it's not broken. We don't need to keep adding people to stables.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ugh, lets not bury Ambrose, Reigns, and Rollins before their singles careers in WWE even starts. Let Cena turn heel on his own, if he's going to turn at all (which we all know, he is not). Cena's buried enough guys in his obnoxious 9 year run. Lets not ruin these guys already.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Anyone else feel that if Rock was facing anybody but Cena @ Mania in NY/NJ he'd be getting booed?


Why would he? I don't recall NY/NJ crowd being hostile towards him.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> I know you're a punk mark and all, so Im not surprised at this, but no way was this the same.
> 
> If the two were out there singing, and rapping, telling jokes, trying to one up each other, not having a real point of feuding, and all that other mess we endured for a year you have a strong point. But this is nothing, not even remotely close to be considered the same ol shit.


What the hell does me being a fan of Punk have to do with anything? He's not even involved in this program. Don't generalize, it just makes you look dumb.

It was the same promo from both of them. Cena brought it towards the end, but it just didn't sell me. I've already heard it from the two and have seen about all I can take from Cena vs Rock.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> Why would he? I don't recall NY/NJ crowd being hostile towards him.


Mostly because NY/NJ is typically pro-heel/anti-face, and considering their smarkiness, I'd imagine that they would have some disdain for Rock being WWE Champ yet no-showing numerous Raws leading up to Mania. If it was a typical face/heel matchup, I have a feeling Rock would be the one getting booed. Since he's facing the epitome of a polarizing figure, it will alleviate most of the boos as they'll be directed @ Cena. Just my two cents.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

rock/cena promo was good


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Mostly because NY/NJ is typically pro-heel/anti-face, and considering their smarkiness, I'd imagine that they would have some disdain for Rock being WWE Champ yet no-showing numerous Raws leading up to Mania. If it was a typical face/heel matchup, I have a feeling Rock would be the one getting booed. Since he's facing the epitome of a polarizing figure, it will alleviate most of the boos as they'll be directed @ Cena. Just my two cents.


Oh ok I can see that, it has happened to him in the past I just couldn't remember which cities.

As much as I love The Rock I can't wait till he's out of the main event. In fact I can't wait till all these part time wrestler's are gone as much as I enjoy seeing HHH, Lesnar, and Rock RAW has gotten notably worse since they've come back for Mania. All the main story lines can't progress cause they all only wrestle on PPV makes for terrible TV.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> Oh ok I can see that, it has happened to him in the past I just couldn't remember which cities.
> 
> As much as I love The Rock I can't wait till he's out of the main event. In fact I can't wait till all these part time wrestler's are gone as much as I enjoy seeing HHH, Lesnar, and Rock RAW has gotten notably worse since they've come back for Mania. All the main story lines can't progress cause they all only wrestle on PPV makes for terrible TV.


Good point. Rock and Triple H were at Raw last night. Why wasn't Brock?


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

MoveMent said:


> Why would he? I don't recall NY/NJ crowd being hostile towards him.


I don't think it's that far-fetched. Wrestlemania crowds are notoriously smarky. The Rock has missed multiple shows leading into Wrestlemania, while being WWE Champion & ending the WWE title streak of C.M. Punk. Plus you factor in things like the news stories about Rock not mentioning WWE on Leno & it sort of makes him look like a bad guy in the eyes of hardcore fans. Plus he's just overall been really cheesy since coming back. I don't know if it's the PG environment, him being rusty or what but in 2013, telling Paul Heyman he has a small dick & Vickie that she's ugly isn't exactly hilarious. His catchphrases are old and cliché at this point. Maybe it's just me but every time he does the "Finally..." schtick, I cringe. Cookiepuss was terrible. Fruity Pebbles is terrible. He's just not funny. He's a guy I really, personally, don't care to see anymore.

On top of all that, it's a rematch main event from last year & almost the third straight year of Cena/Rock build. What more can be done that we haven't seen at this point? WWE put the title on a part-time guy from the past & I think there will be some backlash.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brock is only signed for a limited number of appearances. Probably didn't feel the need to have both him and Rock on the same show.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

If it wasn't for the fact that it's not happening, this is blatantly (and very well, I might add) setting up a Cena heel turn. Its just a tease though . WWE is well aware that teasing a heel turn for Cena is a drawing concept ( I think the promo after wm28 did huge in the ratings).

The biggest sign towards no heel turn is the real dire situation they face with their remaining faces , its not just a Cena problem of them getting booed its a worse problem for faces like Del Rio , Miz , Sheamus is they the receive little to no reactions every week.

Who would be Cena's challengers if he does turn? Midcarders at best.

On the Rock reaction talk I think the business is in such a poor state with no positive future on the horizon people want to see what they know/remember enjoying and for most its the Rock in the AE. This isn't 2002 where you could see a future with stars like Brock Lesnar. Furthermore, Rock probably got his best reaction so far in his return at MSG.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Well...
> 
> That would explain the reason behind THE SHIELD being the only stable in WWE history to NOT be buried by Cena, and the reason why they've looked like the most brutal force in recent memory ; CENA BABY!
> 
> If CENA came out in a vest and pronounced himself as the leader of The Shield..... I wouldn't be able to log onto Wrestling Forum for a while... My excitement would drive me insane.



I've never been more sure of something Wrestling related in my life, at least in terms of plot twists to a major angle. Like I pointed out in my post, the stars are far too aligned for this NOT to happen, and the seemingly changing of the guards would need a perfect exclamation mark to signal change, and this is it. Right now they have enough potential babyfaces to fill the void as they mold their next megastar, they can even turn CM Punk back into a face at some point since his crowd reactions as a heel are indicative of Austin circa early 1997.





Coffey said:


> I don't like that idea at all. If you put someone else in the Shield, someone like Cena or Orton, they take the top dog spot & the current Shield members become after-thought henchmen. I think it takes a lot away from Ambrose, Rollins & Reigns. They're better off on their own, to me. Let them fly on their own.
> 
> Cena could just as easily turn heel without having it have anything to do with The Shield. That makes more sense from a continuity stand point anyway, as you pointed out, since Cena has not only feuded with The Shield but taken beatdowns from them.
> 
> As Wade Keller has mentioned, The Shield sort of work right now like the Freebirds used to. I wouldn't mess with it because it's not broken. We don't need to keep adding people to stables.



What if they were treated as equals? Just take my NWO comparison as an example, do you think that Hall and Nash were mere henchmen to Hogan? Sure they were more fleshed out characters, but I see no reason why the 3 original Shield members can't play a pivotal role in the angle.

The Shield needs a payoff to their arrival in the WWE, there needs to be a fitting conclusion that launches them in a new direction, otherwise they WILL become as stale as their current 3-man feud at Wrestlemania. The Shield story has taken a major backseat as of late, and I think that has alot to do with swerving us. The Cena shocker would be the perfect way to evolve them. They can go a multitude of ways with this, they can even tease tension between Cena and Ambrose that could culminate in an Ambrose face turn and let him be the great player that he's destined to be.

As for the beatdown Cena took, it was not only treated as an afterthought, but it's been done in the past as a way to deceive us. Just look at Bully Ray in TNA, perfect example. He fought A&8's, and he is now the president.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Good point. Rock and Triple H were at Raw last night. Why wasn't Brock?


He was never advertise but I haven't seen an explanation as to why he wasn't there.



Coffey said:


> I don't think it's that far-fetched. Wrestlemania crowds are notoriously smarky. The Rock has missed multiple shows leading into Wrestlemania, while being WWE Champion & ending the WWE title streak of C.M. Punk. Plus you factor in things like the news stories about Rock not mentioning WWE on Leno & it sort of makes him look like a bad guy in the eyes of hardcore fans. Plus he's just overall been really cheesy since coming back. I don't know if it's the PG environment, him being rusty or what but in 2013, telling Paul Heyman he has a small dick & Vickie that she's ugly isn't exactly hilarious. His catchphrases are old and cliché at this point. Maybe it's just me but every time he does the "Finally..." schtick, I cringe. Cookiepuss was terrible. Fruity Pebbles is terrible. He's just not funny. He's a guy I really, personally, don't care to see anymore.
> 
> On top of all that, it's a rematch main event from last year & almost the third straight year of Cena/Rock build. What more can be done that we haven't seen at this point? WWE put the title on a part-time guy from the past & I think there will be some backlash.


That's a good point, I wasn't taking into account that Wrestlemania usually has a crowd from around the country and not just the NY/NJ area either.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Brock is only signed for a limited number of appearances. Probably didn't feel the need to have both him and Rock on the same show.


Brock signed a new 2-year extension on his contract. Are his dates really limited that much anymore? Pretty sure we're getting Brock Lesnar: WWE Champion this year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Coffey said:


> Brock signed a new 2-year extension on his contract. Are his dates really limited that much anymore? Pretty sure we're getting Brock Lesnar: WWE Champion this year.


I think the extension was similar to his current deal, though. A few Raws here and there to build up his 2-3 PPV matches. I could be wrong, though. 

That being said, I'm all for BROCK as champ. :brock


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

2 weeks before the Triple H/Lesnar career match and one of the guys can't even be on the show. A program that could use alot more build. Wow.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

That why I think nobody really reacted to the Trips retirement stipulation . Win or lose he wasn't going to be on the show post mania anyway.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think BROCK'S gonna be around alot more this year.

I think he's going to stick to RAWs and perhaps even go away for a few months but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see 8 or 9 BROCK matches from Mania XXIX - Mania XXX. I wouldn't doubt it if he worked Extreme Rules, Payback, Summerslam, Survivor Series, The Rumble, and The Chamber before going all out with XXX.

We need BROCK vs Punk/Cena in Chicago PLZ. One or the other.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

What will Brock be doing at Extreme Rules?

3rd Match with HHH?

Costing Rock his match against Cena?

POSSIBILITIES


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

blarg_ said:


> What if they were treated as equals? Just take my NWO comparison as an example, do you think that Hall and Nash were mere henchmen to Hogan? Sure they were more fleshed out characters, but I see no reason why the 3 original Shield members can't play a pivotal role in the angle.
> 
> The Shield needs a payoff to their arrival in the WWE, there needs to be a fitting conclusion that launches them in a new direction, otherwise they WILL become as stale as their current 3-man feud at Wrestlemania. The Shield story has taken a major backseat as of late, and I think that has alot to do with swerving us. The Cena shocker would be the perfect way to evolve them. They can go a multitude of ways with this, they can even tease tension between Cena and Ambrose that could culminate in an Ambrose face turn and let him be the great player that he's destined to be.
> 
> As for the beatdown Cena took, it was not only treated as an afterthought, but it's been done in the past as a way to deceive us. Just look at Bully Ray in TNA, perfect example. He fought A&8's, and he is now the president.


No one will ever be equal to Cena in WWE land. Certainly not freshly called-up developmental guys. They have John Cena going head-to-head with one of the biggest stars in the history of pro-wrestling on the biggest show in the industry. He's not going to be on par with Roman Reigns because he puts on Big Bossman's old vest.

Yes, absolutely 100% The Outsiders were henchmen for Hogan. Even with Hall going on record saying that the idea was "you gotta go through us to get to Hogan." And to keep going along with the nWo reference, the adding of more members is ultimately what killed that stable/story. Hell, Goldberg had to beat Hall in the same night just to get the title shot against Hogan in the Georgia Dome on Nitro. Hogan becoming the 3rd member totally outshined The Outsiders.

The Bully Ray turn in TNA is the last thing you should be comparing pro-wrestling angles to as it's terrible & full of plot holes. Which aren't just erased from Bully doing vignettes on an episode of Impact with cement trying to go down the road pouring in the gaping cracks.



The Lady Killer said:


> I think the extension was similar to his current deal, though. A few Raws here and there to build up his 2-3 PPV matches. I could be wrong, though.


Yeah, I don't know. I could be wrong too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

As much BROCK as possible, plz.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Coffey said:


> No one will ever be equal to Cena in WWE land. Certainly not freshly called-up developmental guys. They have John Cena going head-to-head with one of the biggest stars in the history of pro-wrestling on the biggest show in the industry. He's not going to be on par with Roman Reigns because he puts on Big Bossman's old vest.
> 
> Yes, absolutely 100% The Outsiders were henchmen for Hogan. Even with Hall going on record saying that the idea was "you gotta go through us to get to Hogan." And to keep going along with the nWo reference, the adding of more members is ultimate what killed that stable/story. Hell, Goldberg had to beat Hall in the same night just to get the title shot against Hogan in the Georgia Dome on Nitro. Hogan becoming the 3rd member totally outshined The Outsiders.
> 
> The Bully Ray turn in TNA is the last thing you should be comparing pro-wrestling angles to as it's terrible & full of plot holes. Which aren't just erased from Bully doing vignettes on an episode of Impact with cement trying to go down the road pouring in the gaping cracks.


Obviously not his equal in term of prestige and star power, Cena would clearly be the leader, but in terms of them being "mere henchmen", I don't know about this. The WWE has been teasing a "higher power" that brought the Shield into the WWE for months, and having them do what they're doing now vs what they'd be doing under Cena wouldn't be that much different. It depends on your interpretation of being a "mere henchman". If the angle serves as a catalyst to build a guy like Ambrose into a successful singles run, then being under Cena would be beneficial. The Shield has their own identity, I don't think they'd be mere extras in the John Cena show if the angle is treated with intelligence. It may happen with a guy like Rollins, but I don't think they'll water down Ambrose's momentum.

The Outsiders were more than henchmen, they were part of the hierarchical triad of the NWO, they were the core, the Wolfpack was part of the driving force that made the NWO successful. A mere henchman would be a guy like Vincent that did f*ck all but stand in the background. Hall and Nash played a big part in the storylines even if ranked under Hogan, and that's where i'm getting at.

My point is that it's happened before, so don't be surprised if Cena sacrificed himself to deceive us. It's possible.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

BANKSY said:


> What will Brock be doing at Extreme Rules?
> 
> 3rd Match with HHH?
> 
> ...


He is on the 'new' PPV Payback in June (that isnt ER is it?) so im not sure he is even at ER this year (cant see it myself)

I think his Raw/PPV appearances will be the same as last year tbh.

Meed more Brock though (Y)


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

blarg_ said:


> My point is that it's happened before, so don't be surprised if Cena sacrificed himself to deceive us. It's possible.


And I'm saying if you put Cena in The Shield the Shield becomes Nexus 2.0.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> 2 weeks before the Triple H/Lesnar career match and one of the guys can't even be on the show. A program that could use alot more build. Wow.


This. I'm a Brock mark and I love seeing the guy on TV when he's there but all this here one week and gone the next stuff seriously hinders any momentum from building for his programs. It happened at Summerslam and it's obviously having an impact now. They do something great to get people hyped and excited and the next week Brock's not there. It's hurting the feud. You'd like to think he would be there every week for Wrestlemania of all things. There's only so many times Hunter can say he's going to kick his ass. I really wish he was around for more shows. If he is to become WWE Champion then he really ought to be. Rock can get away with it at this time of year because it's the RTWM and other things are going on. The middle of June without a WWE Champion every week however is simply not going to fly.

On another note though, KOK Rock hate is :lmao. I actually worry for you if Rock wins this match lol.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Coffey said:


> And I'm saying if you put Cena in The Shield the Shield becomes Nexus 2.0.


No it wouldn't, the Nexus wasn't fleshed out like this, and Cena is the perfect driving force that a group like Nexus didn't benefit from. Cena's star power alone, along with the novelty of a heel turn would make this infinitely more interesting than the Nexus angle imo. This, along with the fact that you have two solid workers in the group, and one guy that has potential to be WWE's next breakout star. You can't compare an angle that had months (and in ways years) worth of preperation vs something they hotshotted to give up and coming guys some much needed exposure on the big stage.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Roid's definitely going to win now that I despise him, I have a terrible track record with these things ;

WM XXII : Rooted for HHH. Cena Wins.
WM XXIII : Rooted for HBK. Cena Wins.
WM XXIV : Rooted for HHH. Orton Wins
WM XXV : Rooted for Big Show. Cena Wins.
WM XXVI : Rooted for Batista. Cena Wins.
WM XXVII : Rooted for Cena. Miz Wins.
WM XXVIII : Rooted for Cena. Roid Wins.

Whenever I actually WANT John Cena to win a match, he never fucking does :lol!

Thank God when I came back to Wrestling I came to my senses and started really loving me some JOHN BOY. Before that I was pretty fucking delusional and was one of the sheep who would say "CENA SUCKS!" and "LOL 5 MOVEZ".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's surprising that you rooted against Cena so many times yet you've become his biggest fanboy. :StephenA2


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

John Cena is a pioneer in dat dere ring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I ADORED Cena until around Vengeance 2005, then I was an avid Cena hater until he buried Wade Borrett in 2010, then I went back and checked out all of his old stuff and realized just how great he was. 

For Instance.... Anybody want to take a guess as to how many JOHN BOY matches I have watched today? :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Why you gotta go overboard with DAT CENA LOVE? You are setting yourself up for a massive fall if he doesn't win this match what with the sig countdown and all that lol. 

:rock4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I ADORED Cena until around Vengeance 2005, then I was an avid Cena hater until he buried Wade Borrett in 2010, then I went back and checked out all of his old stuff and realized just how great he was.
> 
> For Instance.... Anybody want to take a guess as to how many JOHN BOY matches I have watched today? :lol


1249815?

And didn't you say you were actually rooting for THE MOZ at WM27? And then after a while you realized that your Cena hate was so irrational that you went as far as rooting for someone as shit as MOZ just to be anti-Cena?

On another note, I just finished watching RIC FLAIR vs Big Show from ECW. Brutal match but too short for my liking. Very basic with Show controlling the beginning then Naitch hitting him with four lowblows and introducing weapons and thumbtacks before Show quickly turned it around in under a minute and won quickly. That said, ★★★★ just for the brutality.

I really need to check out more of Flair's work because I'm closer and closer to introducing him to the short list of "guys I mark for".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> For Instance.... Anybody want to take a guess as to how many JOHN BOY matches I have watched today? :lol


Enough to render you clinically unstable?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I adore how much of a troll he is, and it took me a really long time to realize it.

- (2005) You want Christian to get a push? How about getting buried on the mic by Cena and pushed back to the Midcard?

- (2006) You're sick of the same old shit? That's why we gave Edge the title... For 3 weeks.

- (2007) HE HOLDS IT ALL YEAR LONG BAYBAY! TAKES AN INJURY TO PRY THE BELT FROM HIS HANDS!

- (2008) Stays out of the main event most of the year, loses clean to JBL and Batista 2 shows in a row ; Automatic title shot @ Survivor Series

- (2009) You thought it was bad when he beat HHH and HBK at two consecutive Wrestlemanias? How about Cena beating them both at once? And while we're at it, let's give JOHN BOY another Mania win!

- (2010) Promising young stable looks to freshen up the WWE? HUSTLE. LOYALTY. RESPECT. OMG Cena's going heel? HUSTLE. LOYALTY. RESPECT.

- (2011) CM Punk hotter than ever? The smart decision is to give Cena another few transitional reigns.

- (2012) CM Punk is your WWE Champion? Better let Cena main event every PPV.

- (2013) Cena loses clean at Wrestlemania? Redemption / Royal Rumble trolling.

:cena3 :cena3 :cena3

I've grown to fucking ADORE his antics as a face.

EDIT : The answer is Thirty Four TV matches ATM, heading to the gym in a little bit, going to cal my girlfriend, then it's probably a few more just for the hell of it. Blowing through 2010 today like it's going out of style, should have all of Cena's PG Era TV Singles matches done in a matter of days.

My friends think I'm losing it, as they wonder where I'm getting all of these Cena T-Shirts or why I'm pulling up to pick them up with "Basic Thuganomics" blasting from my stereo while I'm wearing a 'WORD LIFE' Shirt :lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL all with DAT SMIRK.

Would utterly kill for a proper heel turn storyline, though, culminating with a match vs Taker @ Mania 30.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

For all the wrong reasons apparently. 8*D I'm a Cena mark and at times his character can be unbearable but when they get it right with him, I think he makes for a wonderful babyface. His ability to play the babyface in peril in his matches is right up there with the best of them for me too. I loved him as Rapper Cena and watching him troll the shit out of the internet can be hilarious, yes. I think your current Cena love is stemming from your UBER Rocky hate though lol. It's not a coincidence that they run parallel with each other. 

DAT JAWN BOY CENA SUPER LOVE

:cena2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll root for Cena as long as he's not going against Punk or Brock (MAAAYYBE Henry. I could go either or there) ATM.

vs Sheamus/Orton/Show/Miz/Roid/DOLPH/EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE ROSTER? Cena. Easily.

Don't get me wrong, I fucking LOVE CENA.. But in terms of the hierarchy of things I care about in the WWE right now it would probably go something like this POST MANIA ;

1. Punk
2. SHIELD
3. BROCK
4. Cena
5. Henry

I'm capitalizing on CENA-MANIA and using it as a chance to go back and celebrate his career while I'm going to love him unconditionally (especially if he's against the Roid, there's definitely a correlation there not even going to lie).

At the moment though, I really don't care about Punk/Taker at all because there's absolutely no chance in hell that Punk wins so I have no investment whatsoever. BROCK/HHH should interest me to levels that I haven't reached before but for reasons already highlighted earlier (BROCK here one week, gone the next, HHH essentially already retired) I don't really care about that one either. Cena/Roid is the only big main event that actually means something to me ATM obviously because it has the Title on the line and a guy I'm a big fan of going against the Bane of my existence in terms of being a wrestling fan is concerned.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KOK's Cena love is definitely stemming from the over the top ROCK hate. It's kinda the same with me and my hate for Punk. When they feuded last year, I was enjoying Cena's trolling and complete burial of Punk's crappy run while the rest of this place was raging. Yet a few months before that, I was hating on Cena worse than anyone else after the Brock match. Then my Punk hate topped anything I've ever hated and from there I just took the piss by embracing everything about Cena that I (and many others) hate(d). Feels much better when I accept face Cena compared to counting the days for a heel turn which, for we all know, may never happen.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

What's The Nasty Boys' best match? I really need to watch more Nasties. They're underrated IMO. Love their Halloween Havoc match against The Steiners. 






Also, just stumbled across this fan made YouTube movie by accident & thought people might get a kick out of it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Awesome BORK segment. 

Pales in comparison to his segments with Kurt though. kurt


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm on the Cena BANDWAGON ATM and I'm inclined to agree, however I've rooted for Cena in practically every match since Wrestlemania XXVII that didn't involve Punk or BROCK in some way shape or form. I was fond of him as a face and I enjoyed it, but the whole Roid/Cena thing really irked me and brought my Cena fandom to levels that I didn't even think we're imaginable. Maybe that's why I enjoyed Rock/Cena last year ; even though The Rock won, it created a sports like atmosphere for me. I was sitting there with my friends, rocking the "Rise Above Hate" t-shirt and talking shit about Rock all night and then BAM... 1-2-3.

Now it's much of the same but REVERSED in the sense that I believe firmly that Cena's coming away with the win.

BASICALLY what I'm trying to say is simple ; before the Roid feud Cena was in my top 5 guys that I used to watch RAW for outside of the obvious 1-3 guys I like more then him. He'll go back behind Punk and THE SHIELD once Mania is over, it's just that everybody else isn't really doing anything worth caring about (BROCK/HHH just makes me feel dirty and wrong in every single way from having to root against HHH to not really caring for the program at all) so now Cena is THE reason to watch every week, making him my #1 guy ATM.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

And if he doesn't........KOK MELTDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm starting to have my doubts now tbh. Fuck them for that awesome promo that has me questioning myself after all this time lol.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Coffey said:


> *What's The Nasty Boys' best match?* I really need to watch more Nasties. They're underrated IMO. Love their Halloween Havoc match against The Steiners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


vs Maxx Payne and Cactus in a streetfight from WcW 94 I wanna say...is probably the most enjoyable Nasties match I've seen, but not particularly up on nasty boy matches


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that street fight tag is awesome. Need to check it out again. Is that on Foley's Hits & Misses DVD? I thought there was a Nasties match on there. Maybe not.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Coffey said:


> What's The Nasty Boys' best match? I really need to watch more Nasties. They're underrated IMO. Love their Halloween Havoc match against The Steiners.


vs Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne
vs Hart Foundation

Couple of fun brawls with Harlem Heat i think.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

TLK: 

It is! I cheated and looked at my copy

It's from spring stampede apparently


I'm about to pop it in and see if it holds up


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not going to meltdown for the simple fact that I'll probably be banned again.

Not going to lie, the week that I was banned was so retarded. I used to watch matches and say to myself "better get on WF and... OH WAIT I'M BANNED".... I don't even think I was ever given a specific reason as to why I was banned either, it was just crazy, crazy stuff. I didn't go crazy insulting The Roid or anything, I just got really sarcastic and put PRO CENA stuff everywhere to piss off The Roid-tards and remind them that this is just a transitional reign.

I'm going to be equally pissed if SHIELD loses though. If Wrestlemania ends up like this ;

- Cena loses to The Roid (30 percent sure, this would make me the most pissed off as we'd be no doubt getting Roid-Cena III)
- Del Rio retaining the belt w/ no DOLPH cash in (85 percent sure)
- Taker winning (100 percent sure)
- SHIELD Losing (20 percent sure)
- HHH winning (I feel so dirty saying that. 50/50 for this one)
- Ryback winning (90 percent sure)

THEN you might see a KOK meltdown. MAYBE.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I think I've seen that match with Cactus. I thought it was Abby, not Maxx Payne, but I probably just misremembered. That's the one where Foley gets blasted in the fucking head with a shovel, right? If so, yeah, I've seen that.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Anyone care to give their views on 'The History of the World Heavyweight Championship' set? I got it today.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Coffey said:


> I think I've seen that match with Cactus. I thought it was Abby, not Maxx Payne, but I probably just misremembered. That's the one where Foley gets blasted in the fucking head with a shovel, right? If so, yeah, I've seen that.


Yeah gets legit knocked out, right?


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Really good set. Could have done with more WCW off the top of my head but the doc is good and there are some really good matches on it


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> THEN you might see a KOK meltdown. MAYBE.


 I hope we do. :cool2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> - Cena loses to The Roid (30 percent sure, this would make me the most pissed off as we'd be no doubt getting Roid-Cena III)
> - Del Rio retaining the belt w/ no DOLPH cash in (85 percent sure)
> - Taker winning (100 percent sure)
> - SHIELD Losing (20 percent sure)
> ...


I've said several times that the big four (WHC, Brock/Trips, Taker/Punk, and WWE title) can't ALL be predictable. I don't see Del Rio dropping the title yet, Taker won't lose, I don't see Trips retiring (could be wrong), and I sure don't see Cena losing. 

The worst thing that could happen is Rock retaining and Cena shrugging it off AGAIN. I think they'll blow it off at Extreme Rules either way, but the question is, will Rock compete in a gimmick match?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

If ROCK loses at Mania and Cena stays as a face then they shouldn't wrestle again at Extreme Rules. I don't think the feud will be as interesting if things stay the same. If Cena does indeed win cleanly (which is likely), I think both men (and a partner) would face the Shield at Extreme Rules. A dream booking would be having the Shield coming out to help Cena win at Mania which results in a heel turn. The following night on RAW, Cena is revealed as the leader.

Anyway, how sure are we that ROCK is competing at ER? It could be a segment where he is announcing something. Similar to when HHH appeared in No Way Out 2012 and challenged Lesnar at Summerslam 2012.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> If ROCK loses at Mania and Cena stays as a face then they shouldn't wrestle again at Extreme Rules. I don't think the feud will be as interesting if things stay the same. If Cena does indeed win cleanly (which is likely), I think both men (and a partner) would face the Shield at Extreme Rules. A dream booking would be having the Shield coming out to help Cena win at Mania which results in a heel turn. The following night on RAW, Cena is revealed as the leader.
> 
> Anyway, how sure are we that ROCK is competing at ER? It could be a segment where he is announcing something. Similar to when HHH appeared in No Way Out 2012 and challenged Lesnar at Summerslam 2012.


Now, that could be interesting. Just don't like how it would take away from the young guys in the Shield, though. But as you say, doubt it happens.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Ric Flair vs Triple H steel cage from Taboo Tuesday for the second time. I settled for lower quality just to get the non-DVD version that features Flair yelling completely uncensored and what an awesome match!

2005 was such a great year, specially for gimmick matches.

- Best Elimination Chamber ever
- Two of the greatest Hell in a Cells
- Two of the greatest steel cage matches in the space of one month
- The best Money in the Bank ladder match


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton & Edge (for the World Tag Team Championships) - RAW 2007 *(***3/4)*

Great match, would recommend to anyone who likes tag team wrestling. The ending was pretty anti-climatic with Cena just strolling in and giving poor ole' Randy the FU, However It did pave the way for the real ending, The DEADMAN appearing to potentially face CENA at WM23 _(Oh, I can dream)_. This was the RAW right after the Royal Rumble, If anyone wants to know.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching the third disc of Hogan's Ultimate Anthology. Hogan just got points for putting Trips over. Haven't seen this Backlash match in a while, but I remember the ending. Unfortunately, Trips reign got cut way short. Anybody know if it was part of Hogan's deal to win the title, at least, this soon? Seems like they may have reacted to the crowd at Mania 18.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Flair has some very underrated work during his post 2002 days, such as



> vs. Taker - Wrestlemania 18 - No Disqualification
> vs. Hogan - RAW 2002 - No Disqualification
> vs. Jericho - Summerslam 2002
> vs. Triple H - RAW 2003
> ...


It's hard not to miss some gems off of Flair's resume of work during 2002 and onwards but those are off the top of my head.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

He also has a pretty good match with Orton the week before Royal Rumble 2005.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I *ADORE* the Orton cage match. Main-Evented over the world title too, if that's not an indicator of just how over Orton was then I don't know what is.

So I'm into September 2010 and the last few months have been atrocious for Cena TV matches. Actually, looking back at it right now.... As of September there hasn't been a single John Cena TV match in 2010 that breaks the three star barrier, nothing to go out of your way to see at all. 

Now I have to suffer through a Cena vs Orton tables match. YAY.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Now I have to suffer through a Cena vs Orton tables match. YAY.


 That botched finish :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> HOF, especially this one, is a once in a lifetime thing.


Kind of like Rock V Cena at Wrestlemania. :rock4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs Randy Orton (Tables Match ; RAW 9/13/10) : *DUD*

NO. NO. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

FUCK THIS MATCH.

This might be the worst match I have seen from either man. DEAD SERIOUS.

EDIT : OH NO. ANOTHER CENA VS ORTON MATCH. THIS ONE IS BAD TOO. 2010 IS THE WORST FUCKING YEAR FOR THE MAIN EVENT SCENE ON RAW. WORSE THAN NOW SOMEHOW.

Seriously, Cena and Orton are ATROCIOUS together as face vs face. Like... AMAZINGLY bad.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Far out, Smarks outside this thread and casuals tend to overrate the bejesus out of Austin/Rock WM17, They even have the tendency to call it a ***** match which it clearly wasn't. It makes me think what kind of match statistics do casuals and general smarks look into when rating a match. Their WM19 match was much better, An easy ***** for me. Their WM17 match, At highest is a ****1/2.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For the love of christ WHERE is the Dungeon Collection review!?


SmokeAndMirrors said:


> Anyone care to give their views on 'The History of the World Heavyweight Championship' set? I got it today.


Very insightful doc, one of my personal favorites. From the matches I've watched on the set, it's a pretty great comp.



THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Picked up Brian Pillman "Loose Canon" and Eddie Guerrero "stealing life" dvd's yesterday for £5 in total from CEX. Bargains. Documentaries are both good although I thought that Pillman's was superior. Going to watch the matches tonight, not sure which DVD I'll choose first :hmm:


Go with Pillman, so we'll be watching the same thing tonight. 



SpookshowTony said:


> Any good Rock N Roll Express matches?


*NWA World Tag Team Championship*
Rock `N' Roll Express vs. Ivan Koloff / Khrusher Khruschev
_World Wide Wrestling July 9, 1985_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I could give you the stars that I have recorded for The Dungeon Collection if you'd like, as well as what I gave it overall :lol :lol :lol!

SEE. In this Cena vs Orton match they had something good going for like a minute until they FUCKED IT UP AGAIN with their "DISIZEPIC" nonsense. ** 1/2* for the 10/25/10 match between them. It wasn't painful to watch like the tables match was..... But it wasn't exactly what I'd call decent by any means.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *NWA World Tag Team Championship*
> Rock `N' Roll Express vs. Ivan Koloff / Khrusher Khruschev
> _World Wide Wrestling July 9, 1985_



Bookmarked (Y)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I could give you the stars that I have recorded for The Dungeon Collection if you'd like, as well as what I gave it overall :lol :lol :lol!
> 
> SEE. In this Cena vs Orton match they had something good going for like a minute until they FUCKED IT UP AGAIN with their "DISIZEPIC" nonsense. ** 1/2* for the 10/25/10 match between them. It wasn't painful to watch like the tables match was..... But it wasn't exactly what I'd call decent by any means.


Nah nah, I can wait til you decide to post the full review... IF that ever happens. 

Really though, if you just gave me ratings I'd be pretty disappointed. Probably go 4/10.

Watch that Cena stuff from Thanksgiving '03?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK.

I have like... 5-7 PG Era Cena TV Singles matches left (CRAZY how I've blown through so many), but when I'm done that's the first thing I'm going to check out. IT'S ON MY LIST .

The Next THREE on my list?

vs Alex Riley 11/15/10
vs David Otunga 12/13/10
vs DOLPH Ziggler 12/20/10

Terrible.

:cena3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I never figured KOK for a Cena fan. Well, this big of a fan lol. 

I agree with The Wrestling Fan. Rock vs Austin WM 17 is so freaking overrated. As a matter of fact Wrestlemania 17 on the whole is such an overrated event. I would much rather watch 24. If I were to watch one Mania for the rest of my life, it would definitely be 24.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I did two quick reviews on these matches, Enjoy.

*John Cena vs. Jesus (With Carlito) (for the US Championship) - Armageddon 2004 - Street Fight*​

This is about as ones sided as they come, Cena completely demolishes Jesus in this match. No matter what kind of offense Jesus offers, Cena halts it and continually kick Jesus's ASS!!! At times, I genuinely thought it was legit with the bumps and hits that were thrown and taken. This match is a GRADE A SLOBBER KNOCKER and proves how bad a motherfucker Cena is. ****1/2*, One more thing, KOK watch this match. You'll love it.

*Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (With Ric Flair as the Special Guest Referee) - Backlash 2002*

I don't know what i was thinking when i called this match horrible. It's definitely one of the better Taker/Austin matches, I guess that's what happens when you don't watch a match for years and immediately assume what the majority is thinking. It's far above most of their 1999 crap. People say how both Taker and Austin looked like they didn't give a shit in this match. Well, Austin didn't but Taker did, Did you see all that psychology, crowd interaction and move execution by Taker? Including the height on that flying clothesline, WOAH!!!!. ******, Great match with awesome psychology and working by Taker.​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JESUS gets like one move in that match, it's a really, really fun squash during Cena's last days as an upper midcarder on SMACKDOWN.

THAT STABBING STORYLINE :lol.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

While some of the 'regulars' in here type out well written posts and posses encyclopedia type knowledge of matches and come across as knowledgeable about the business, some comments are just as delusional as the ones in the 'GOAT' Thread. The hate KOK has for Rock is pretty bad dude, you come across fine other than that, Love John Cena? I have no problem with people liking whatever they like but you really shouldn't put that amount of hate into a wrestling character, especially when last night The Rock *AND* John Cena stole the show (both were on their 'A' game) instead of internet fans already have pre conceived opinions even before it happens (we hate this feud so nothing they do is going to be good or we hate one of the performers so much we'll never admit that they knocked it out the park). 

As I said other than that, some great reviews in here but I hope you don't strangle some poor cat because Rock said a catchphrase.

and especially if he beats your boy _AGAIN_ :rock4


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> You do realize title reigns are scripted, right?


WHAT? :smokey


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jesus vs John Cena. How ironic :lmao :lmao 

:cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That was a fantastic segment last night no doubt, and although it was perhaps the best segment The Roid has been involved in since... I have no idea when, I just genuinely felt that Cena blew him out of the water. Everything from his facial mannerisms, to him slowly degenerating into madness and coming off as kind of delusional at the end of the promo. Here we have SUPERMAN John Cena, and somebody has finally gotten him to the point where he's admitting his desperation and can quite clearly make a choice on what road he's going to take heading into Wrestlemania, whether it be the high road and risk suffering the same soul crushing defeat again, or to take the low road and go against everything he believes in just so he can satisfy himself and put his demons to rest.

Make no mistake about it, this feud is about one thing and one thing only ; will he do it? Has John Cena become so desperate that he needs to resort to taking the low road in winning the biggest match of his life, or will he stick to his beliefs even though it could cost him another shot at immortality. It's The Rock's PRESENCE as an icon that matters in this match, not The Rock himself.

Cena has dismantled and stood tall over every name in the RA and PG Eras, but he could never stand tall over an Icon from another generation when given the chance, and now that he has a second chance, what is he going to do?

Cena sold me on his desperation, and if he incorporates this desperation into the match whether he stays face, turns heel, or hell even if there's a Roid win ; he might shock the world with his performance at Wrestlemania.

This match is EVERYTHING for Cena's legacy both kayfabe and non kayfabe. Kayfabe wise if he defeats The Roid at Wrestlemania, he has beaten one of the biggest stars of all time and deserves to be mentioned in the GOAT conversation with the likes of Hogan, Austin, and of course The Roid. From a match analytical standpoint, if Cena goes out there and puts on a brilliant character performance it's going to do wonders for him in many eyes as far as being a great worker is concerned by doing something that seems impossible at this point ; getting a good match out of The Roid. 

MOST IMPORTANTLY though, this match has HUGE future implications. You can say all you want now about how "CENA DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE MENTIONED WITH HOGAN/AUSTIN/ROCKY", but the truth is simple ; if Cena wins this match, ten years from now the kids who grew up with John Cena as their hero will put him in that discussion. Hell, I wouldn't doubt it if in 10 years Cena is remembered more fondly than Rock and Austin due to him being dominant all around in a more recent era. I'm not saying I agree with that statement at all, I'm just pointing out how the desperation in reality and fiction in terms of John Cena the man and John Cena the character are overlapping and I can't wait to see what unfolds.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cena completely lost me when he said he had never won the big one. No one is buying it. Flat out BULLSHIT and a complete and utter insult to the WHC AND more importantly, the WWE Title. Cena took another shit on the company and both titles last night. Not the first time, won't be the last either.

EDIT - Oh and John Cena saying to ANYONE on the planet that they don't know "what it feels like to fail" is one of the most hilarious things anyone has ever said. Rock shut him up real quick with that. Really? John Cena saying that? Really? Fuck that.

People fall for the false heel turn from Cena every. single. time.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cena was better last night IMO. Both did a great job but I liked how Cena sold his body language and emotions well.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Exactly, I don't know how a 10 time WWE Champion, who has stood tall over names like Triple H, HBK and Batista at WrestleMania along with being the top guy for close to 8 years now needs to win the 'Big One', but whatever, theirs very little to gain from picking apart John Cena's character.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Looks like KOK has taken the title of WF's Number One Cena Supporter away from me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That may be big for EVERYBODY, but it's not a big deal to the likes of Hogan, Rock, Taker and Austin ; three individuals who Cena wants to be in the same class as (kayfabe wise). Austin has beaten Rock and Taker many times, Rock has beaten Hogan AND Austin, Taker has The Streak and has beaten Rock, Austin, AND Hogan, and Hogan has beaten practically EVERYBODY and was around in the 80s so he never really had to prove himself to the fans.

Who is (kayfabe) the biggest name that Cena has beaten 1-2-3? Triple H? Shawn Michaels? As much as I love GAME, he isn't Rock/Austin/Hogan or even TAKER when it comes to kayfabe, as he put over Benoit and Batista before he put Cena over anyways, same with HBK who never won very much at all when he came back in 2002.

Cena wants to be in that class, and he feels like he can't do it unless he beats one of the biggest icons in the industry, one of the only TWO left (Taker too) in The Rock. That's where this "character desperation" is coming from ; Cena knows he's the best of the generation but as he mentioned last night, he wants to prove to The Rock that he could have not only stuck around in the Attitude Era, but he could have been the top dog.

Just my two cents.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

When Rock said to Cena, "How about you wipe a monkey's ass with how you feel" I perked up big time. 

And, Cena talking about not winning the big one (a term he used about five times) is LOL worthy. He's made HHH, HBK, and Batista tap out at WM. Pinned the BEAST Brock Lesnar in his first match back. He got Big Show and Edge on his shoulders at Mania 25 for a big moment and won the World title. 

This is certainly one of the biggest chances they'll have for a Cena heel turn. In fact, so was last year. If the match were No DQ, it might open the door a little bit for a turn, but I don't expect it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Looks like KOK has taken the title of WF's Number One Cena Supporter away from me.


Yea, His Cena love has spiraled in the last few hours. I even wonder if he would embrace Cena ending the streak at WM30 or hate it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If anybody is going to break the Streak it HAS to be Cena.

Hell, that's the ONLY WAY that I would accept The Roid winning at Mania, is if it led to Cena becoming more and more desperate, grasping at straws in an attempt to be in the conversation for GOAT (AGAIN, KAYFABE). He dominates what's left in the WWE but is still bothered with the fact that he can't beat a mega star on the big stage and goes for one last ditch attempt to become not just a legend but one of the GOAT, and goes after The Streak.

Cena is the only person other than Punk that I'd love to see break The Streak.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE WrestleMania 23 - World Heavyweight Championship Match: The Undertaker vs. Batista*

This was Taker's first title shot at Mania since 1997. At the time, there were a lot of reports that Big Dave and Taker were upset about not being in the main event and it seems clear they wanted to send a message. And boy did they this was the 4th match into the show and they stole the fucking show. Both men worked their asses off and the end result is the best Streak match up to this point. And it really was the match that put the "STREAK" on the map. Undertaker dominated early, but Batista came back with some power offense including that awesome powerslam through the table. The finishing sequence was terrific with a lot of believable nearfalls. These two had crazy ass chemistry I've seen people call this the weakest but in my opinion I think the Backlash match is the weakest they had on PPV, Cyber Sunday match is still my favorite with this being a close second. Man I really should get a list of all Batista/Taker matches and watch them. Anyway this is WrestleMania win #15 for the Taker and World Title win number 1 as well. ****1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Exact same rating for Taker-Batista, although I certainly wouldn't complain with anybody rating it four or four and a half of course (what I had it at before my last rewatch). Although I'd highly disagree with it stealing the show that night as I felt HBK-CENA was MOTY @ ***** 3/4*, one of the two matches that I have at ***** 1/2+* from that bad, bad year (the other one being Cena-Umaga BTW).

2007 was Cena's year man, although I wouldn't argue with somebody claiming Taker was the WOTY that year either.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Punk hit the nail on the head in the promo where he compared Cena to the New York Yankees. Cena tries to come off as the underdog and someone who hasnt won the big one? Bitch please! Look at the guy. He is a vanilla gorilla. Probably 99% of girls would like to ride his face like a mechanical bull. Its like Taylor Swift crying about how guys dont like her and she is the girl next door. Huh? For fucks sake you look like a super model. Not my type (I like a thicker girl and dark hair) but thats not my point. Anyways...

I'm not a Cena fan by any means but not a hater. His character is stale and I find him kind of boring at times. He aint turning heel. I'd love to see it but the E doesn't have enough face power right now. Maybe if the Rock or HHH were rasslin full time but after Cena the biggest faces are Sheamus? Orton (who needs to turn baaaaaadly)? ADR? Hahaha. The Miz? Oh Christ! I think Cena needs like a 6-9 month vacation. Maybe a kayfabe injury at ER and a surprise Royal Rumble return? Imagine that pop! I will say this....if I was a Cena fan I'd totally rock the AWA logo rip off shirt, the rise above hate one or the 8 bit shirt which was my fave of his. Link below. 

http://shop.wwe.com/John-Cena-"8-Bi...html?dwvar_07099_color=Black&start=4&cgid=New


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

It's apart of his gimmick, You know the whole underdog and never say die motto. His promos are solid when they need to be but what really annoys me is The Roid's discontinuation of seriousness throughout his promos with Cena. Like his headlining WM29, his the WWE champion and no other young stars are getting a shot at title. Can't he just cut out the "shoving up people's asses" and "the monkeys nipples" nonsense and start being a more motivated and focus driven champion?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, Rock change your character after all these years and start being more dull and boring. In fact, start calling yourself an underdog. That'll work.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Sometimes I feel like it's really hard to venture to other parts of the forum because I feel like a black sheep. The NXT section comes to mind. Mother of God. That section is rough. People arguing over who should be called-up first, who is not ready, arguing over Divas, arguing over masks, arguing over names, arguing over who should a newly called-up wrestler feud with. Nobody ever wants to move an inch, hear anyone express a differing opinion, compromise on ideas or, heaven forbid, agree on something. Everyone thinks they're a promoter that knows best. It's silly. "Well, I watched him on the Indies, so he should do this!"

...but you never see any of them in the "Other" wrestling section...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed.

99 percent of the time you can find me in here because this is where you can find the most rational posters (most of the time anyways). Emotions are just running more rampant in here nowadays (especially from guys like myself) because it's WRESTLEMANIA SEASON and people are getting all hyped up (or voicing their displeasure) for the current product.

With that being said though, I do believe that we always end up back in the right direction again, and most of the BAD posters that come here to post in this thread are gone within a month.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I totally understand the Cena gimmick. It's just played out. I'd either like to see something new or a Cena break. 

As for the Rock I like him. He was one of my faves during the AE and next to Foley probably my fave during that era. Coming back last year was cool and I got really excited for the Rock/Punk match(es). Sadly they were not very good. Had Rock been able to devote more time I think the matches would have been good. Money talks though and for what they are paying him and for as little as he is around would you blame him for it? People know who he is and want o see him. Fuck, in the time it took me to write this post he probably made what I make in a year off of GI Joe action figures.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yeah, Rock change your character after all these years and start being more dull and boring. In fact, start calling yourself an underdog. That'll work.


To be completely honest, I was never a fan of The Rock's mic work in general (except for Hollywood Rock in 2003). It all pretty much consisted of infamous catchphrases and comedic gestures, nothing ever really stood out. Seriousness triumphs over Humor/Comedy in a promo for me, especially in this day and age where most things in the WWE are reviled to be funny, fun or kid friendly. It's stupid how even a match that is main eventing WM29 is also catering to this description.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2003 Hollywood Rock was AWESOME.

DWAYNE.

EDIT: CHARACTER WISE. The matches with Hogan and Goldberg fucking blow :lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> 2003 Hollywood Rock was AWESOME.
> 
> DWAYNE.
> 
> EDIT: CHARACTER WISE. The matches with Hogan and Goldberg fucking blow :lol.


Yea but the Austin match at WM XIX makes up for those shitfests. 5 STAR MATCH. SO. FREAKIN'. EASILY.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Oh and John Cena saying to ANYONE on the planet that they don't know "what it feels like to fail" is one of the most hilarious things anyone has ever said. Rock shut him up real quick with that.


I was surprised that The Rock didn't mention his failing to make the NFL & having to play football in Canada. He spent part of his book talking about it. Guess he doesn't want anyone to remember that part, where he actually failed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Didn't Dwayne get cut from the CFL :lol :lol?

Watching the Benoit-Cena series ATM now that I have every single John Cena PG ERA TV match watched already. Should be great.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Didn't Dwayne get cut from the CFL?


I don't remember. I have not read the book in many years & will never read it again as it was a bad book. That being said, I do remember him trying to get over that he didn't fit in football because he was too violent because of his temper.

:lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He got cut from the Calgary Stampeders two months into his contract :lol.

If only we could go back in time and convince him to never give up his dream of being a professional football player......

:cena3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

These two promos are among Rock's best EVER. Listen to him bury PAT's CHEESESTEAKS in the first one.






Edit: Forgot this video is actually two promos in one.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I would of loved to have, Jeff retain his WWE championship at RR 2009 against Edge and somehow come on top at the Smackdown EC. Cena could of then won a contendership match on RAW and challenged Jeff for the WWE championship at WM25 and have Orton/Edge for the WHC. Now, That would have made me :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They should have just had Cena and Triple H switch places in all honesty .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@KOK

Meh, wouldn't of made much difference to the original. Cena has already proven, he is the better worker than Triple H. So i don't how removing Cena and adding Trips would heighten the triple threat in match quality. As for Cena/Orton, None of their matches have ever reached a classic status. At their peak, Their matches were only very good. 

Cena/Hardy, Orton/Edge along with the perfect Taker/HBK match would have made WM25 one of the best Manias ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

But then GAME wouldn't have gotten his MAIN EVENT WIN @ WRASSLEMANIA' :lol.

:HHH2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> But then GAME wouldn't have gotten his MAIN EVENT WIN @ WRASSLEMANIA' :lol.
> 
> :HHH2


Him and Shane vs. Legacy is your answer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who needs sleep. The amount of wrestling crammed in today made one more of the better days. Even if RAW sucked hard. Only thing I cared to take away from it was Undertaker/Punk & Fandango. Oh, and Cena acting serious in making part of the useless championship match feel like it has some meaning.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The show wouldn't have went off the air with THE GAME on top though, and that's what matters!

Even though the match was completely horrendous by modern Wrestlemania standards, I still marked the fuck out when I saw Wrestlemania go off the air with Triple H on top of the world once again. 

DAT GAME.

EDIT: CODY, WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN ALL DAY?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watching rasslin. Outside of KOTR 2000, RAW & last week's NXT the rest was catching up on 2013 indie fun, yo. Including the farewell show of :generico.

You'll soon learn to love him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the Cena/Big Show series?

I swear I'm like the only person on planet earth who ADORES their work together for the most part. FUCK.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Man, Jeff and Cena have off the chart chemistry judging from their RAW match in 2008. Imagine what they could of done at Wrestlemania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Thoughts on the Cena/Big Show series?
> 
> I swear I'm like the only person on planet earth who ADORES their work together for the most part. FUCK.


You and myself then. Love most of their matches. Judgment Day 2009 might be the most underrated match of the last decade. When taking into considering the "hate" it receives. It's excellent. Simple & highly effective. Been a year or so since I last saw the Submission match from Extreme Rules. Recall it being solid, if not a shade or two under good. It worked. I know that. Goes without saying their Smackdown match from 2009 is their best work. Insanely great match between the two. I've reviewed some of their matches a few months ago in the old DVD/Match thread b/c I wanted to relive their work. Don't think any of their matches have been bad. Only maybe one from 2010 right before WM 26 b/c it was so short and damn near an abbreviated carbon copy of their general work. Which wasn't their fault. Only the negative thanks to TV circumstances. When they get their time to shine, it's good. If not great. Like I said a few times lately too, No Way Out 2012 is one I really have to view again. Only seen it once.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Watching rasslin. Outside of KOTR 2000, RAW & last week's NXT the rest was catching up on 2013 indie fun, yo. Including the farewell show of :generico.
> 
> You'll soon learn to love him.


He's going to need the mask to get over. Right now he looks like a generic jobber.



KingOfKings said:


> Thoughts on the Cena/Big Show series?
> 
> I swear I'm like the only person on planet earth who ADORES their work together for the most part. FUCK.


I'm a big fan of their Wrestlemania matches. They have a few other gems as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> You and myself then. Love most of their matches. Judgment Day 2009 might be the most underrated match of the last decade. When taking into considering the "hate" it receives. It's excellent. Simple & highly effective. Been a year or so since I last saw the Submission match from Extreme Rules. Recall it being solid, if not a shade or two under good. It worked. I know that. Goes without saying their Smackdown match from 2009 is their best work. Insanely great match between the two. I've reviewed some of their matches a few months ago in the old DVD/Match thread b/c I wanted to relive their work. Don't think any of their matches have been bad. *Only maybe one from 2010 right before WM 26 b/c it was so short and damn near an abbreviated carbon copy of their general work*. Which wasn't their fault. Only the negative thanks to TV circumstances. When they get their time to shine, it's good. If not great. Like I said a few times lately too, No Way Out 2012 is one I really have to view again. Only seen it once.


GAVE DAT ONE *** 1/2* :mark:.

I said it before and I'll say it again ; Wrestlemania XX may very well be their most underwhelming match ever (need to watch the early SMACKDOWN ones tomorrow).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Alim said:


> He's going to need the mask to get over. Right now he looks like a generic jobber.


Laughable statement. Anyone who knows his work knows he can get over no matter what. His talent isn't behind a mask. It's within him. At this rate the guy's current role is a "generic jobber". So he isn't exactly going to have the flashiest attire while in the early stages of developmental. Lets not jump the gun and look like a fool. As if looks mattered anyways. A Vince McMahon philosophy that has meant nothing to me.



KingOfKings said:


> GAVE DAT ONE *** 1/2* :mark:.
> 
> I said it before and I'll say it again ; Wrestlemania XX may very well be their most underwhelming match ever (need to watch the early SMACKDOWN ones tomorrow).


Only saw it once when it was live. I do stand by it though. Don't think it was too special via the reasons I listed.

I like the WM XX match. Weakest of their affairs may be the RAW match mentioned or their first _(shoot, I think it was their first, or maybe second.)_ on Tribute for the Troops in '03. Even then it was a decent enough 4 minute match for a Troops Smackdown.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

JOHN BOY


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs The Big Show 6/22/09 : *****

THAT WAS A GOOD ONE. Going to finish their TV series tomorrow (watched every John Cena singles TV match of the PG era over the last three days, which is over like 80 matches but I had nothing better to do) with the RA Era matches and then I'll make a POST with reasons as to why everybody who doesn't like their chemistry can go die in a hole. A top 10 JOHN BOY opponent when looking at consistency in the matches (that's coming too. APRIL is going to be CENA-MANIA with my top ONE FUCKING HUNDRED JOHN CENA MATCHES EVER, putting in major work here watching every match possible so I can put as much heart into it as I can), akin to the Jericho ones which never get recognition.

Telling you guys. CENA-MANIA is coming soon enough once I get all of these matches watched, then all hell is going to break loose as we know it.

:cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's rather magnificent.

Quite the laundry lists of achievements. All he needs to add is defeating The Rock. _(aka the "big one" he was referring to on Monday. So those who claim Cena was insulting intelligence need to get a grip and realize the context of what he was speaking about.)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I seriously can't wait to see him attempt to work magic with The Roid at Mania.

I don't know HOW he can do it (even CM GAWD couldn't), but with the recent character development being added to the mix, JOHN BOY is making me a believer. 

HE WAS BAD ON TV IN 2010 THOUGH. HOLY SHIT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm lukewarm of course. The Punk vs Rock matches were horrible. Yet, the only good Rock match since returning was with Cena last year. So it's about 50/50 on what to expect right now. Lets all hope we'll luck on and get a sprint of a match in half the time of last year's. This really doesn't need to be some long "epic" of how 28's match was worked. Balls to the wall type bout here would be more than enough to suffice.

Was he? I know he was pretty legit on some PPVs. Well, Over The Limit & Fatal Four Way he didn't do anything of note. Both those matches were underwhelming. None of his opponents did anything to assist either. Can't remember that tables match vs Orton being bad. Recalled having fun with it and liking the finish. lol @ someone calling it botched. It was meant to be an RKO through the table via out of the FU counter. It's like when someone kept calling the Cena vs Orton HIAC match finish botched. Orton kicks Cena clear cut in the head. How was that a botch? I'm trailing off into a tangent. Don't get what some people were grasping at.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Laughable statement. Anyone who knows his work knows he can get over no matter what. His talent isn't behind a mask. It's within him. At this rate the guy's current role is a "generic jobber". So he isn't exactly going to have the flashiest attire while in the early stages of developmental. Lets not jump the gun and look like a fool. As if looks mattered anyways. A Vince McMahon philosophy that has meant nothing to me.


Just because you have talent doesn't mean you're going to be successful. Lots of guys are good in the ring and have lots of charisma, but they don't always pan out. Banking on talent alone isn't a safe bet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Alim said:


> Just because you have talent doesn't mean you're going to be successful. Lots of guys are good in the ring and have lots of charisma, but they don't always pan out. Banking on talent alone isn't a safe bet.


Banking on talent with an opportunity is, though. If he gets his chance, he can make it work. Mask or no mask. That's what I'm driving at.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Can't remember that tables match vs Orton being bad. Recalled having fun with it and liking the finish. lol @ someone calling it botched. It was meant to be an RKO through the table via out of the FU counter. It's like when someone kept calling the Cena vs Orton HIAC match finish botched. Orton kicks Cena clear cut in the head. How was that a botch? I'm trailing off into a tangent. Don't get what some people were grasping at.


 Sorry 'wrestling expert', I meant that the execution of the RKO looked awkward because part of Orton's body goes through the table and you can tell that he was confused himself by the finish. At first glance, it looks like a clean AA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was done before. I saw no abnormalities with the spot. Done about as well as it could have considering the mid-air shift in momentum + needing to put Cena through the table. Such a bossy counter.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm lukewarm of course. The Punk vs Rock matches were horrible. *Yet, the only good Rock match since returning was with Cena last year.* So it's about 50/50 on what to expect right now. Lets all hope we'll luck on and get a sprint of a match in half the time of last year's. This really doesn't need to be some long "epic" of how 28's match was worked. Balls to the wall type bout here would be more than enough to suffice.
> 
> Was he? I know he was pretty legit on some PPVs. Well, Over The Limit & Fatal Four Way he didn't do anything of note. Both those matches were underwhelming. None of his opponents did anything to assist either. Can't remember that tables match vs Orton being bad. Recalled having fun with it and liking the finish. lol @ someone calling it botched. It was meant to be an RKO through the table via out of the FU counter. It's like when someone kept calling the Cena vs Orton HIAC match finish botched. Orton kicks Cena clear cut in the head. How was that a botch? I'm trailing off into a tangent. Don't get what some people were grasping at.


I wouldn't consider the SS 2011 tag bad, especially due to DAT CROWD. Rock looked far, far better there than he has in his last three matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Terrible match. A complete dreg of a workover segment that lasted way, way too long by Miz & Truth coupled in with Rock legit only working 3 minutes out of 21. That's why he didn't look "as bad" in comparison.

I'll never let something like a crowd make a bad match good. Ever. The match has to have some substance behind it. Ironically enough a fitting example is Rock vs Hogan. Match was fine + an amazing crowd helped create a great match. Some loud crowd wasn't going to help some poor match become automatically better. It's why Cena vs Trips from WM 22 being considered great is a bit of a farce in of itself. Above average and that's about it. Or the ever craptastic Cena vs RVD match. Damn that match sucks hard.


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> If ROCK loses at Mania and Cena stays as a face then they shouldn't wrestle again at Extreme Rules. I don't think the feud will be as interesting if things stay the same. If Cena does indeed win cleanly (which is likely), I think both men (and a partner) would face the Shield at Extreme Rules. *A dream booking would be having the Shield coming out to help Cena win at Mania which results in a heel turn. The following night on RAW, Cena is revealed as the leader.*


Go back a page or two (or three) from your post, this theory was discussed in great detail. Just telling you this if you want a fresh perspective on it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Terrible match. A complete dreg of a workover segment that lasted way, way too long by Miz & Truth coupled in with Rock legit only working 3 minutes out of 21. That's why he didn't look "as bad" in comparison.
> 
> I'll never let something like a crowd make a bad match good. Ever. The match has to have some substance behind it. Ironically enough a fitting example is Rock vs Hogan. Match was fine + an amazing crowd helped create a great match. Some loud crowd wasn't going to help some poor match become automatically better. It's why Cena vs Trips from WM 22 being considered great is a bit of a farce in of itself. Above average and that's about it. Or the ever craptastic Cena vs RVD match. Damn that match sucks hard.


Believe me, my opinion on Cena vs RVD is polar opposite of yours. And it's not because of the crowd.

Back to my WHC project with REY VS HENRY :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Jesus vs John Cena. How ironic :lmao :lmao
> 
> :cena3


Some Rock marks think that is happening at Mania :side:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

blarg, I will do. I doubt its going to happen but you can't rule it out completely. There are other ways to turn Cena heel anyway. WM should be very interesting though.

Zep, so true (e.g. Icon vs icon) :lol


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> blarg, I will do. I doubt its going to happen but you can't rule it out completely. There are other ways to turn Cena heel anyway. WM should be very interesting though.
> 
> Zep, so true (e.g. Icon vs icon) :lol



Probably a better place to glance over is the last few pages of the Tell The Truth thread where me and Hayley talk about it in even more detail, but the TL;DR version of it is that i'm absolutely convinced that it's going to happen, and it's a prediction i've stood by and talked about on here since January.

tbh, it's the only reason i'm hyped about this year's Wrestlemania. If you ask me, the build up has been lackluster compared to some other years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Apparant name for the War Games DVD:

_*WWE*_: War Games: _*WCW*_'s Most Notorious Matches

An oxymoron of sorts lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Rock/Cena was everything i expected it to be, It wasn't a technical masterpiece by any means and nor did it produce anything revolutionarily in the field of psychology or storytelling. However, It was a great fight and the atmosphere while not being on par with Rock/Hogan or Rock/Austin was still pretty electric, The length did hurt it though, It should of capped off at around the eighteen to twenty minute mark, in all honesty.

What's funny to me though, is seeing all the heaven-high expectations people had for the match. Smarks were calling it a 5 star match, the second it was announced while the casuals were dubbing it as the greatest match of all time. This is a prime example on why you shouldn't set your standards too high cause you could see nothing but failure in the match when the truth is, it was actually pretty good.

****1/2*, A good bout but nothing legendary, It was more about solidifying The Rock as one of the GOATs and to build upon his legacy. Whatever that means :lmao.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Even after a few re-watches I still don't rate the Rock/Cena match highly. It just dragged on and on and even though the crowd was pretty good, I just wasn't excited at one point during the match. Plus the ending was obvious as hell. I was excited going in for it but definitely didn't think we'd be getting anything ****+, but obviously I did hope for more. Going in with much lower expectations this year may allow me to enjoy it more. Hopefully they cut down on the time of their match too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Even after a few re-watches I still don't rate the Rock/Cena match highly. It just dragged on and on and even though the crowd was pretty good, I just wasn't excited at one point during the match. Plus the ending was obvious as hell. I was excited going in for it but definitely didn't think we'd be getting anything ****+, but obviously I did hope for more. Going in with much lower expectations this year may allow me to enjoy it more. Hopefully they cut down on the time of their match too.


What where your expectations going into the match? Your predicted rating? It definitely exceeding my expectations, I was only expecting a *** match at most.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well, I was expecting Rock to be in better shape to be honest, and be able to work a decent match. Obviously these expectations were pretty well off considering how poor he's been since his return. Due to Cena being a good worker, I'd say I was probably expecting something around ****1/2*. I mean, that's what some people give the match and some even more than that, but I have it low at about ***1/4*. Maybe that's just because it followed Punk/Jericho which I enjoyed a lot when watching live. But this year with lower expectations (and like I said hopefully a shorter match) they could pull something better off.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

the match went far too long for my liking, alot of plodding in the middle to help compensate The Rock no doubt, but tbh the whole match felt plodding to me, the finishing stretch was _alright_ i suppose, but even after watching it live i didnt live it, probably have a rating of around **1/2 atm, yeah as high as that :lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I still don't buy into this 'Cena turning heel' idea either. I know they've teased it and whatnot, but if you were going to turn Cena heel, surely it would be more shocking if it came out of the blue? The teasing just makes me think it is simply just that, and everything will stay the same after 'Mania.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Anyone know the match listing on the War Games set? 

#kidding


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Coffey said:


> I was surprised that The Rock didn't mention his failing to make the NFL & having to play football in Canada. He spent part of his book talking about it. Guess he doesn't want anyone to remember that part, where he actually failed.


Exactly. It's a bullshit storyline that the audience isn't even buying.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've just started watching NXT post Summerslam 2011 and the opening segment is AJ, Hornswoggle and Titus O'Neil in the ring. Hornswoggle proposes to AJ and Titus is there to translate for Hornswoggle because he couldn't speak English yet. I fucking love this programme. :lmao

Edit: REGAL ON COMMENTARY


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> That may be big for EVERYBODY, but it's not a big deal to the likes of Hogan, Rock, Taker and Austin ; three individuals who Cena wants to be in the same class as (kayfabe wise). Austin has beaten Rock and Taker many times, Rock has beaten Hogan AND Austin, Taker has The Streak and has beaten Rock, Austin, AND Hogan, and Hogan has beaten practically EVERYBODY and was around in the 80s so he never really had to prove himself to the fans.
> 
> Who is (kayfabe) the biggest name that Cena has beaten 1-2-3? Triple H? Shawn Michaels? As much as I love GAME, he isn't Rock/Austin/Hogan or even TAKER when it comes to kayfabe, as he put over Benoit and Batista before he put Cena over anyways, same with HBK who never won very much at all when he came back in 2002.
> 
> ...


I agree but the way he worded it was completely wrong as it downplayed everything he's done such as being the 10 time WWE Champion along with carrying the company for so many years, it tells me well if Cena thinks he's this far behind then were is everybody else.

He should have used some better buzzwords like "_to be considered an option as the best ever, I need to beat quite possibly the best ever which is you_" at least that way it's not downplaying his achievements and rather than accentuating his current goal which is to become GOAT.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Lex Luger vs Ric Flair for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. Battle of the Belts 3.

Great match, great, great. There are some elements that are missing to take it all the way. Luger abandons most of the work Flair did on him throughout the match. They shouldn't of gone for the leg work that early on, it should of been the sole focus on fall 2. Fall 2 ends rather abrupt, but I haven't seen much of Luger's work in general, to know that was going to be his finishing stretch.

As for fall 3, perfect. Their intensity, pace and 'WORKRATE' was fantastic. In some way, I could relate it to being like Hart/Michaels at WM12. Except this is more entertaining, it doesn't suck the life out of you, and it is Flair in a very long match. Key bit is the latter. Their earlier falls could of been scrapped entirely, and just had the final fall as the match itself. Regardless of that, a great match for a very mediocre show. ****.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I forgot Great American Bash '92 has Sting/Vader :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

YoungGun_UK said:


> I agree but the way he worded it was completely wrong as it downplayed everything he's done such as being the 10 time WWE Champion along with carrying the company for so many years, it tells me well if Cena thinks he's this far behind then were is everybody else.
> 
> He should have used some better buzzwords like "_to be considered an option as the best ever, I need to beat quite possibly the best ever which is you_" at least that way it's not downplaying his achievements and rather than accentuating his current goal which is to become GOAT.


 To be fair, the only reason he mentioned the quarterback (forgot his name) at the beginning of the segment was because it relates to him. Both were statistically great (Cena has won numerous of titles) but when it came to the biggest match of their careers, they both failed so that shows Cena wasn't ignoring his success.


----------



## The-Rock-Says (Feb 28, 2011)

I hope y'all getting on SilverVision. Amazing deals you aren't going to see again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The comparison to Donovan Mcnabb was excellent, mainly because THEY WERE IN PHILLY where he played, and despite being a great player for a huge bulk of his career, ultimately was remembered with backlash because even though he accomplished what a majority of players couldn't , he couldn't win the big one. That was just a device by Cena to sell his desperation. I was a fan, of course.

Finishing up The Big Show vs John Cena TV series now with the 2003 matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I finally watched the promo from Raw. I thought both did a pretty good job. Cena in particular had great facial expressions and really shows how good he can be on the mic when not spewing garbage and trying to be funny. Rock had the perfect mix of catchphrases/jokes/one-liners and seriousness. Much more interested in this match now than I was a week ago.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Finishing up The Big Show vs John Cena TV series now with the 2003 matches.


How were the Benoit matches?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what alot of people who are over-critical of Cena don't understand ; his mannerisms and facial expressions, as well as even the tone of his voice escalating from confident to desperate really sold me the match, and what he actually said came secondary. There has been only a few men to provoke Cena out of the normal WWE mold and when it comes to promo wise I believe The Rock is certainly one of them as I enjoyed all the Cena promos (most anyways) from the 'once in a lifetime' feud and I've been enjoying his work so far this year... Another guy who provokes this out of him would be Punk, which explains why Cena has been so on point so far this year.

I really don't know how they're going to structure the match as they obviously can't have Cena play the face in peril and make a babyface comeback, as that would make no sense since Rock is technically the face, I think if they make if kind of like Eddie Guerrero vs Batista LITE in the sense that there are subtle teases at a heel turn that cause Cena a ton of inner turmoil, with the main story of the match being Cena overcoming his own demons once again and putting away The Rock clean, even if it means losing and facing another year of hell.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Broke down and ordered _John Morrison: Rock Star _today_. _DEM TV GEMS!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> How were the Benoit matches?


John Cena vs Chris Benoit SD 4/17/03 : *****

John Cena vs Chris Benoit SD 5/15/03 : *** ¼*

John Cena vs Chris Benoit SD 7/3/03 : *CAN'T FIND IT*

John Cena vs Chris Benoit SD 12/2/03 : **** 3/4*

John Cena vs Chris Benoit RAW 3/19/97 : *** 3/4*

It's a nice little series for Benoit, but early in Cena's career it was one of his bigger ones for sure. That December match might be Cena's finest contest until the Taker match in mid 04 IMO, or at least a candidate. Pretty sure the December one was the only time they went over 10 minutes, and they really went out there and showed what they could do, crazy to think Benoit went out later that night and put on an all time classic match with BROCK.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Rey/Sabu, One Night Stand 2006:* ***1/4. It was essentially a hybrid of what would be a match that had a mix of the WWE, ECW and Lucha styles of wrestling. It was fast, it was furious, it had the help of a raucous New York crowd in the Balroom, and it ended quite abruply but in a rather "extreme" manner. This match was a war, an insane one at that, but it felt a bit forced on its ZOMGEPICNESS to be honest. There were some sickening things about this match, such as Rey's mask having "ECW" written on the back of it (suck-up as they come aspect), and the crowd gave Rey what he had coming (I'll admit, on this particular event, I was rooting for Sabu, as crazy as it seemed). This one was nothing short of wild and fun. The finish won't satisfy everyone, but it was one of the better ones of its kind - after all, the spot that lead to it was SICK. Like the good ol' ECW days, this was a really fun ride.

*Rey/Henry, Smackdown 6/23/2006:* ***1/2. Mark Henry is one of the best storytellers ever. EVER. This match is pretty damn awesome, Henry is one of the best guys to play the role of bully in history and he proves it here (he may just be Brock Lesnar good at that), and Mysterio is vice-versa - he plays the role of underdog here (and pretty much always) and he's one of the best guys ever to do so as well. The storytelling here is just phenomenal. Henry was PLAYING around with Rey, with the latter doing everything in his power to avoid the monster's schemes and remain champion. Henry's dominance is sublime, to the point and extremely well substanced, as is Mysterio's selling of and desperation to remain champion. Henry's facials are GOAT too. The ending was sucky, but otherwise this was a really good hidden gem on Smackdown in 2006.

*Rey/Booker, The Great American Bash 2006:* ***1/4. I can't say that I loved it, but it's still far better than most Booker singles match in the WWE (bar some of the Benoit matches as well as vs. Rock at SummerSlam 2001. Oh and that SD match with Angle. That's all I recall.) It had solid action, with OK crowd heat as well, and for all sakes, it's a pretty nice timekiller of a contest, if completely unremarkable - even though it tries hard to be it, way too hard actually. Other than Chavo Guerrero's interference which set up their idiotic feud (the Falls Count Anywhere and I Quit matches are very good, though), and BOOKAH winning the big one, this is just nothing more but mindless fun, and that's it.

*NEXT:* Rey 'Campesino' challenges the king, the Animal rises again, and the iron champion withstands a 4-way...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Broke down and ordered _John Morrison: Rock Star _today_. _DEM TV GEMS!


:hb

From where did you order it? How much was it? I think I'm gonna do the same.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Smackdown 19th October 2000 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle*

This is actually a four corners match, where two men are allowed in the ring at a time and can tag in either of the other two. Triple H comes out selling a slight shoulder injury due to the Crossface Benoit put him in on Raw. Rock and Benoit start it off and Benoit hits some big time chops before Rock gets on top and then holds Benoit's hand out to Angle, begging him to tag it. Triple H then gets in and works on Benoit, before he's hung up on the ropes and Angle tags himself in. Pretty standard opening with nothing spectacular, surprising that Benoit didn't aim for HHH's shoulder a little more. A few minutes later, and Angle tags Triple H in to go up against The Rock, but attacks both The Game and The Rock until they both get pissed and double team Kurt. The match then starts to dissolve and there's a lot of brawling on the outside, before Triple H and Rock go at each other in the ring. Rock gets knocked to the outside before Benoit and Angle hit big time moves on Triple H. The Rock comes back in, cleans house and hits the People's Elbow on HHH. He goes for the cover but Stephanie pulls him off. She is then chased down, while Angle swoops in and scores the pin on HHH. Benoit then returns and locks The Game in the Crossface, with The Rock locking Angle in the sharpshooter. Benoit then precedes to trap Rock in the Crossface and Smackdown ends with him grinning at the carnage left in the ring.

This was a pretty average match. It would have benefited from simply being a fatal 4-way, as all four men seemed a little confused by the stipulation, though there were some good moments. Triple H selling his shoulder injury during his entrance was a nice touch which meant the Crossface at the end seemed even more lethal. Stephanie is also confused at who to align with, due to being HHH's wife and Angle's 'business adviser'. An interesting wildcard, and that sets up Triple H vs Benoit for No Mercy very well.

***3/4*

*No Mercy 2000 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*

So, finally we get to Triple H and Benoit's first PPV match together and one of my favourite matches. After Benoit headbutted Stephanie and locked HHH in the crossface multiple times over the past few weeks, Triple H is looking to get revenge while Benoit is looking to knock off one of the best in the WWF and prove he's the best technical wrestler in the company.

We start off with a brief brawl as both men go at each other, but Triple H comes out on top with some hefty right hands in the corner. This plays into his gameplan since Benoit can't get technical, but then HHH starts to work on Benoit's left knee with a chopblock, elbows and ramming it into the ringpost. It's a great sequence and the psychology is excellent, with Triple H not only wanting to beat Benoit, but also out wrestle him. He locks Benoit in a painful looking knee lock and he's well in control, with J.R and King chiming in and mentioning that The Game is putting on a wrestling clinic at the moment.

Benoit wriggles away from the punishment and onto the outside, before getting some offense in of his own by catapulting HHH into the ring post. Back in the ring, Benoit is now in control and begins to work on the weakened shoulder of Triple H, that has been locked in the Crossface multiple times over the last few weeks. He hits a nice armbar takedown before a couple of hammerlock suplexes ground the game and Benoit is now in total control, and back wanting to prove to The Game and everyone that he can out-wrestle any opponent. He then locks Triple H in the cross armbreaker, and The Game sells it well. Benoit then climbs up top and delivers a big diving headbutt right to the shoulder of HHH. 

Benoit looks in total control but Triple H sneaks in a roll up and gets a two count, before countering and hitting an awesome inverted suplex. They then go to the top rope and HHH connects with a big superplex. Both men looking worn out and battered now, and Benoit comes back with some German suplexes and a full nelson suplex that only gets two. Both looking really on their game and almost all of the moves have been performed to perfection. Triple H whips Benoit across the ring, but Benoit counters and locks in the Crippler Crossface. Triple H tries to maneuver out of it but Benoit pounds on the shoulder and locks it back in fully. The Game sells it well and just as it looks like he's about to tap, he counters and picks Benoit up and slams him down with an inverted Samoan drop. This match has now descended from each man trying to out-wrestle the other, into one where both men want to inflict as much pain to the other and Benoit is pissed he couldn't get The Game to tap. 

Suddenly, Stephanie arrives at ringside and slaps Benoit with the referees back turned. Triple H then tries to hit the Pedigree but Benoit counters multiple times and tries to lock in the Crossface once more. HHH won't allow it, realizes he can't out-wrestle Benoit and while Stephanie has the ref distracted, hits the low blow. An awesome Pedigree follows and Triple H picks up the win.

An awesome match, and it never seems to get any worse each time I watch it. I love the first half, with Triple H trying to prove to the young upstart that he's got a long way to go before he can 'hang' with the big dog. Before Benoit comes back and proves that no-one can out-wrestle him and he almost has HHH beat but can't make him tap to the Crossface. I used to dislike the ending with Steph involved but after a few watches I realized that having Triple H win after the low blow is a big credit to Benoit since HHH couldn't out-wrestle him and couldn't put him away without the sneaky finish. Awesome match.

*****1/2*

STARZ for the HHH/Benoit match?

*So Far:
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4*​


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I actually really enjoyed Sabu/Rey from ONS 06. Some of those chair shots thrown to the head sounded brutal. :lmao

Interestingly enough I was rooting for Sabu as well just because I was into the ECW invasion-type storyline, and Sabu was entertaining when he wasn't botching up a storm.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH vs Benoit - No Mercy - ★★★★

Been over a week since I last watched a Benoit match. Need to get on it again because I've been missing his intensity during that week.



KingOfKings said:


> John Cena vs Chris Benoit SD 4/17/03 : *****
> 
> John Cena vs Chris Benoit SD 5/15/03 : *** ¼*
> 
> ...


Cena's best matches from 2003 are No Mercy with Angle, Vengeance and SD on August with Undertaker, the December Benoit match and I don't know... maybe the parking lot brawl with Eddie? Or perhaps Backlash with BORK.



ATF said:


> *World Heavyweight Championship Project*


Just a reminder that I think you've forgotten a title match between HHH and Flair from 2003. Both were in Evolution but they still had a damn good match.

And you mentioned Benoit in the WHC battle royal but did we watch the same match? I don't recall him being part of it after that excellent match with Orton that CAL loves.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Benoit/HHH NM 00 on my most recent watch gets ***1/2 on my watch a couple of days ago as part of my project. It's one of the highest matches at that rating, but down from having it at ****.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm looking to become familiar and catch up with some old school WCW, as in pre-nitro era. I've seen a pack on XWT with all of the PPV's from 1983, when would be the best place to start. I'm thinking of just starting from Starrcade 84 and just go the whole way, but if the first few Starrcades are anything like the first few Wrestlemanias, it really wouldn't be worth it.

Some help, please?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched ROCK vs Benoit in RAW 2000. It was good for what it was and the time it got but definitely not the best ROCK - Benoit match. Chris Benoit winning at the end was surprising to see as 2000 was one of the ROCK's best years so that shock factor did add to the match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Had the same plan, or well, have. I started with Starrcade '83, and imo, it was a fantastic PPV. '84 was very missable, Dusty & Flair had better main events against each other than that one. '85 again was a very good PPV. Onto '86 in about a week, slowly working my way through some weeklies. But I'd recommend it. I'd say also download that Clash of Champions pack (starts in '88). 

Also, watch the Great American Bash/Battle of the Belts in the early years. Especially BotB. You've got Wahoo/Flair 2/3 falls, Windham/Flair and Luger/Flair. First two are beautiful.

Edit: Just re-read your post, saw 'if they are like earlier WMs'. They aren't, almost all Starrcade PPVs oozed class, and were fantastic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Looked it up and yes, I missed that match apparently. That and nine others - two in '02, vs Jeff Hardy and vs Bubba Ray Dudley; in '03 there was HHH vs RVD No DQ, HHH vs Maven on Heat and Goldberg vs Jericho; in '04 Benoit vs Kane II; and in '05 Batista defenses vs Hassan, vs Angle and vs Orton (GOOD GOD). And I just realized that was Burchill and not Benoit fpalm

#HiddenGemz


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Can someone help me out, I need Flair matches too watch, like A LOT of Flair matches, so if someone can throw me a list and possibly links it would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Looked it up and yes, I missed that match apparently. That and nine others - two in '02, vs Jeff Hardy and vs Bubba Ray Dudley; in '03 there was HHH vs RVD No DQ, HHH vs Maven on Heat and Goldberg vs Jericho; in '04 Benoit vs Kane II; and in '05 Batista defenses vs Hassan, vs Angle and vs Orton (GOOD GOD). And I just realized that was Burchill and not Benoit fpalm
> 
> #HiddenGemz


Don't waste your time with the Batista vs Orton "match". It was originally supposed to be a triple threat involving Eddie but we all know what happened. And the match never got started after the bell rang because Raw invaded the arena and it became a battle of brands.

I also don't recall Batista vs Angle ever taking place. Right before Vengeance, they had a one-on-one for about 3-4 minutes then HHH and HBK interfered and it became a tag match. Don't recall the title being involved.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, John Cena was so desperate the whole year after the loss to The Rock that he went RIGHT BACK to the happy-go-lucky, trying to be funny, John Cena. He defeated Brock Lesnar the very next month and main evented pretty much every PPV he was available for. He didn't sell any desperation whatsoever until just now. Never a word or sign in the past year until now how "desperate" John Cena is. How convenient.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm in the middle of the Cena-Khali feud and there's a match here which pits Cena against Orton which is short and features a Khali run in. This was like two days before the only WWE show I've ever been to in my life and the main event was also Cena vs Orton with a Khali run in. Ifind it somewhat sad/hilarious that Khali is so bad that even though he was in the WWE title picture, they still ran Cena/Orton main events at house shows.

In all honesty, I'm glad they did that :lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yeah, John Cena was so desperate the whole year after the loss to The Rock that he went RIGHT BACK to the happy-go-lucky, trying to be funny, John Cena. He defeated Brock Lesnar the very next month and main evented pretty much every PPV he was available for. He didn't sell any desperation whatsoever until just now. Never a word or sign in the past year until now how "desperate" John Cena is. How convenient.


Maybe they didn't want to tease anything because it would make it too obvious? Cena _did_ lose majority of his "big" matches, though. Got his ass beat and bloodied by Lesnar (yeah he won but they barely mentioned it), lost to John fucking Laurinaitis, won MITB but first to fail a cash-in, failed to win the title in three or so different occasions and lost to Ziggler at TLC. He may not have cried on his promos about how The ROCK has paved the way for his downfall but it's a good enough story to go off of and those hating on it will hate no matter what they do.



KingOfKings said:


> I'm in the middle of the Cena-Khali feud and there's a match here which pits Cena against Orton which is short and features a Khali run in. This was like two days before the only WWE show I've ever been to in my life and the main event was also Cena vs Orton with a Khali run in. Ifind it somewhat sad/hilarious that Khali is so bad that even though he was in the WWE title picture, they still ran Cena/Orton main events at house shows.
> 
> In all honesty, I'm glad they did that :lol.


You want a good Orton/Cena TV match, check out the one from February 2007. It's not available anywhere so I might have to upload it myself but they get about 10 minutes and it's pretty good.

That match with Khali's run in lasted about 3 minutes. And the other day I discovered a house show match from June where Khali and Cena main evented and Khali locked in the Crossface. :lol Maybe that's what caused Benoit to snap? (if he indeed did, that is)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's crazy how much worse things got with the death of Benoit. There has to be SOME correlation there, right?

I saw that Cena-Orton match from February like an hour ago, it was a decent **** from where I sit. Cena-LEGEND KILLER have this thing where their TV matches have subpar work but the energy is just through the roof, it makes absolutely no sense.

That's what pisses me off about this whole "Orton turning heel" thing ; my issue was never with Orton being a face, it was with him being "The Viper" as I never really enjoyed that character save for a few matches and segments.

Watching Cena-Khali from SNME 07 and I gotta say, Cena goes into GOD MODE in this feud. Some of his best work ever, this match in particular should be mentioned as an all time great Cena babyface performance as he just sells the beating like a champion and sells himself as the hopeless champion heading into the title fight the next night. *** 1/2*. Cena vs RANDOM MONSTER HEEL is always, ALWAYS awesome, and since Khali is the biggest motherfucker in the yard then that usually makes for something decent.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Maybe they didn't want to tease anything because it would make it too obvious? Cena _did_ lose majority of his "big" matches, though. Got his ass beat and bloodied by Lesnar (yeah he won but they barely mentioned it), lost to John fucking Laurinaitis, won MITB but first to fail a cash-in, failed to win the title in three or so different occasions and lost to Ziggler at TLC. He may not have cried on his promos about how The ROCK has paved the way for his downfall but it's a good enough story to go off of and those hating on it will hate no matter what they do.


I just didn't see any of this desperation in a full calendar year, up until this past Monday. If Cena was booked to show any real desperation, then maybe it would be different. Obviously, from my comments, you can tell my criticism is more with creative, than it is with Cena. But damn, sometimes I just wish Cena would shake some sense into creative, but apparently he doesn't care that much, either. Whatever, it is what it is.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

He won the vast majority of his feuds though.

Beat Lesnar.
Beat Show and caused the firing of Ace.
Beat Ziggler numerous times after the ladder match.

Only things he failed to do where beat Punk for the title ( not like he ever lost decisively to him though) and not overcome Shield ( not really his feud anyway and again didn't get pinned in the match).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania X7 review in my blog! See what I think of the WM everyone claims to be the best... but isn't! Or is it? Maybe I liked it more this time around!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> It's crazy how much worse things got with the death of Benoit. There has to be SOME correlation there, right?
> 
> I saw that Cena-Orton match from February like an hour ago, it was a decent **** from where I sit. Cena-LEGEND KILLER have this thing where their TV matches have subpar work but the energy is just through the roof, it makes absolutely no sense.
> 
> That's what pisses me off about this whole "Orton turning heel" thing ; my issue was never with Orton being a face, it was with him being "The Viper" as I never really enjoyed that character save for a few matches and segments.


It's not just a coincidence. They lost the greatest wrestler ever and then started pretending that he never existed which makes their look-backs on history terrible and flawed. It was kind of a yearly thing, Austin left in 03, ROCK & Lesnar left in 04, Eddie died in 05, Angle left in 06 then the worst of the bunch being Benoit's death in 07. Since then it has only gotten worse.

I like Cena & Orton's chemistry. I don't really feel bothered by any of the "zomgepic" stuff unless it REALLY is forced like most of HBK and HHH's matches post-SummerSlam.

And I not only want Orton to turn heel because he's simply better in that role but also a character change. He needs to step with the slow-mo, monotone speaking and walking and instead be cocky like he used to be. He should also grow his hair out like before and bring back the punt. It might make him a bit generic but he's one of the best as a cocky heel so it's all good. That said, I think I've sensed some change in him in the past few months. He sounds a lot more lively when speaking on a mic and his movements in the ring are not as slow as he used to be when he was full "Viper" mode during the Cena feud and for a part of his face run.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> I just didn't see any of this desperation in a full calendar year, up until this past Monday. If Cena was booked to show any real desperation, then maybe it would be different. Obviously, from my comments, you can tell my criticism is more with creative, than it is with Cena. But damn, sometimes I just wish Cena would shake some sense into creative, but apparently he doesn't care that much, either. Whatever, it is what it is.


I guess we just have our own ways of looking at it. For me, if a heel turn happens, it'll be well worth the long wait and if not, I'll still take it just because it finally drops the ultimate evil, CM Punk, down the card.



BANKSY said:


> He won the vast majority of his feuds though.
> 
> Beat Lesnar.
> Beat Show and caused the firing of Ace.
> ...


You can get technical about it all you want, but his win against Lesnar was overlooked by how badly he got beat the entire match. The only mention made of that win was by HHH when he tried to get Lesnar to accept his challenge. Even Cena completely moved on and sold his arm injury on-screen as he wore that thing the next night.

He beat Show only with the help of a bunch of jobbers and besides, this is not comparable at all to failing his cash in at the hands of Show afterwards.

And the Ziggler wins aren't even remembered when it comes down to it because WWE loves to make as small a deal out of TV matches as possible. He had already beat Punk twice _after_ the birth of SuperPhil yet he still said that he has never done it in his post-Rumble promo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You posted that literally as soon as I was done reading your blog post, DAMN CAL.....

Nice review though of what's considered to be the greatest show of all time to a majority of the fans. Wasn't surprised on your ratings for the two main events, the TLC match review kind of shocked me though, especially since you said the 2000 triangle ladder match was better (switch the two ratings you have for them and you have mine... Or close enough, I have X-7 @ ****) and you don't hear that much. Always thought TLC's I, III, and IV DEMOLISHED the Wrestlemania ones though.

Anyways back to Cena's desperation. Yeah he beat BROCK, but Brock fucked him up and had him beaten but he got cocky and caught with one move which allowed Cena to gain control long enough to keep him down for three, then he loses to Laurinitis, fails to cash in MITB and gets owned by Punk at every turn. Cena's PPV record from Mania XXVIII - now? 4-6-1 .... I don't know about you but that's HORRENDOUS for John Cena. The fact that he didn't sell these losses throughout the year was simple ; they were saving it for when it all came out and Cena finally admitted it got to him in recent weeks, thus making it more effective. If Cena was depressed and bitching and complaining all year it would have been insanely obvious that we were getting Roid/Cena II (yes I know it was insanely obvious anyways, WWE is stupid at times), plus it wouldn't be as captivating when he actually comes out and publicly admits what The Roid has done to his life.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC I & III are definitely better than the WM ones. IV is about on part with WM 17, maybe a little less. Never was the biggest fan of that match. LOL at it being voted the best Raw match at the 10th Anniversary.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I guess we just have our own ways of looking at it. For me, if a heel turn happens, it'll be well worth the long wait and if not, I'll still take it just because it finally drops the ultimate evil, CM Punk, down the card.


Haha, fair enough, man. But if Cena did turn heel, I would be fine with that. Why? Because it would be something DIFFERENT with Cena for the first time 8-9 years. But I doubt it's happening. They love to tease the Cena heel turn around every WM recently to try to get them to buy WM. I'm still not sold on buying WM this year, by the way. Especially when you take into consideration it's $70 bucks for some reason. The quality of the card certainly doesn't correlate with an increase in price, especially that much.

EDIT- The lack of selling in desperatation is because Cena was still booked strong all year and still managed to main event every PPV he was available for, while not even being champion. Got John Laurinitis fired. Beat Brock (doesn't matter if he got his ass kicked, winning a match is winning a match, especially KAYFABE wise. Still the FOCUS of the show. Still the STAR of the show. Still the FACE of WWE. Hence, Nothing to be desperate about. Whatever though, it is what it is. Just another match in REMATCH-MANIA.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project - Missed Gems *(fpalm)

*HHH/Jeff, Raw 9/16/2002:* **. This one was result of "champion's tough love" as Bischoff put Trips defending the World Title against a surprise opponent. RVD came out and attack Hunter badly, busting him up. After securities and staff take RVD away, Jeff comes out as the surprise and the pop is MAD. So this can only be awesome, right? Not so much. The match was slightly above 5 minutes, the crowd seemed tired as they weren't popping until the last minute and half of the match (where Hardy was busting out his finishers), and both men were half-assing almost everything. Truly underwhelming.

*HHH/Bubba, Raw 9/30/2002:* ***1/2. Nobody could really tell either member of the Dudley Boyz/Team 3D was really that talented as far as in-ring work is concerned. You could suggest that they were similar to a Tommy Dreamer or a Sandman where his in-ring skills are not great and they excel far more in hardcore environments. You'd be wrong. Devon is pretty decent himself, and Bubba is straight-up excellent. Everyone who watches TNA today knows that, and Bubba is rightfully their World Champion now. This match right here was a little taste of that in-ring skill, as he and HHH had good enough chemistry to produce a very good match. It started out slow and generic, but it picked up and got extremely good. Hunter really pulled a 2000 here in that he made an opponent who'd certainly not win the title anytime soon look like he would. Pretty awesome. As far as Singles matches go, this is one of Bubba/Bully's best in the E. Even though his pre-match promo kinda sucked.

*HHH/Flair, Raw 5/19/2003:* ***1/2. I was tempted to give this ***3/4 but the ending came off a little short in my opinion, even if it was technically fine. The selling and the psychology is downright AMAZING, for starters. Those first few moments of Flair denying HHH a simple handshake and displaying his charisma were really cool. The wrestling was also very good, with Flair doing most of the job and not dissapointing. HHH selling DEM RIBS by not even doing a simple Suplex was awesome as well. The Greensville crowd was very lively, cheering a huge lot for their hometown (sort-of) hero Naitch. Oh, and the nearfall after Flair connects the World Title to HHH's head in the ref's back? Awfully, awfully close. The aftermath segment was fine too. This was a really good match, and yet another hidden gem in the track of the World Heavyweight Championship... even though this was fucking 2003.

*UPDATED WHC MATCH RANKS
Batista/JBL, The Great American Bash 2005 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
Angle/Henry, Royal Rumble 2006 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
HHH/Jeff, Raw 9/16/2002 (**)
Batista/JBL, Smackdown 9/9/2005 (**)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
Batista/Edge, Raw 5/23/2005 (**1/2)
Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005 (**1/2)
20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 1/13/2006 (**3/4)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
Angle/Rey/Orton, WrestleMania 22 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
Rey/Booker, The Great American Bash 2006 (***1/4)
Rey/Angle, Smackdown 4/28/2006 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
Rey/JBL, Smackdown 5/26/2006 (***1/2)
Rey/Sabu, One Night Stand 2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Bubba, Raw 9/30/2002 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005 (***1/2)
Rey/Henry, Smackdown 6/23/2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Flair, Raw 5/19/2003 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Rey/JBL, Judgment Day 2006 (***3/4)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Batista/Eddie, No Mercy 2005 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Angle/Taker, Smackdown 3/3/2006 (****1/4)
Rey/Orton, Smackdown 4/7/2006 (****1/4)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****1/2)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Batista/HHH, Vengeance 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
Angle/Taker, No Way Out 2006 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)*​


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

^^ Couldn't remember that HHH/Bubba match to be so good. I might give it a rewatch


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

@Big Z - Nice review on WM17. Good to see someone agrees with the awesome ending to the main event, and Austin's facial expressions are just GOAT. Just looking like a total psycho. I agree on the rating for Taker/HHH too.

@ATF - I remember that HHH/Bubba match well. Solid outing. Bubba was awesome during mid/late 2002 during his solo raw run. I remember reading somewhere that he was really disappointed that they decided to re-unite the Dudleys. Oh well, at least he's getting a great solo run now in TNA.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WM 17 is the GOAT WM. No WM is even close to that one, everything was perfect. Austin/Rock made me watch wrestling on a weekly basis


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TLC IV GREATEST RAW MATCH EVER :lol :lol :lol :lol

The other nominees were ;

- HHH vs Cactus Jack 1997
- Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy 2002
- Stone Cold vs Kane 1998

WOW. WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW :lol :lol :lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Bubba is a match I've been meaning to watch again for ages now. I'll get to it eventually when I can be arsed never ok then.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think I'd still have WM17 as my #1. 19 is only just behind though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the CAL SCALE WM 17 is 6.5 points behind the GOAT WM . WM 17 is still #2 though, so that's good and shit .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was going through 2007 CENA matches when I realized that Cena had a pair of matches with YEAH1993 in the summer ........ Errrr..... I mean he had a series of matches with Carlito.

YOU KNOW... When it comes to Cena and his TV matches it certainly seems like when it comes to consistency, his best years were the midcard years (03,04) and 2009 where he was BO$$ nearly every single week. I'm watching some 2007 Cena TV matches and they're all fairly decent, just nothing that jumps off the page really.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

On Cena's redemption storyline, I can see where both sides are coming from. Yes he did have a bad year by his standards but it's just not as bad as they say it is IMO. He was main eventing PPVs, won MITB (even though he lost, it still counts as an accomplishment), beat Brock Lesnar (a win is a win), won his feud against Big Show and John Laurinitis and even won the superstar of the year award. It was a bad year in terms of not winning the big one against the ROCK and not winning any title. It wasn't even his worst year (kayfabe wise) because 2008 was worse for him IMO. 

However, Cena's last two promos with the ROCK have made up for this 'redemption' storyline because he has sold the loss and his facial expressions well. If a Cena victory at WM leads to something BIG then it was worth waiting a year for Cena truly sell his loss to the ROCK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Roid losing and never coming close to the WWE Championship again is a pretty big deal to me, I'd be happy with that regardless, even if the show ended with Cena's troll face saying "LOL HEEL TURN, WHAT'S A HEEL TURN?".

:cena3


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> On Cena's redemption storyline, I can see where both sides are coming from. Yes he did have a bad year by his standards but it's just not as bad as they say it is IMO. He was main eventing PPVs, won MITB (even though he lost, it still counts as an accomplishment), beat Brock Lesnar (a win is a win), won his feud against Big Show and John Laurinitis and even won the superstar of the year award. It was a bad year in terms of not winning the big one against the ROCK and not winning any title. It wasn't even his worst year (kayfabe wise) because 2008 was worse for him IMO.
> 
> However, Cena's last two promos with the ROCK have made up for this 'redemption' storyline because he has sold the loss and his facial expressions well. If a Cena victory at WM leads to something BIG then it was worth waiting a year for Cena truly sell his loss to the ROCK.


If you mean by something big happening, a heel turn, it's not happening, though. Cena is the KING of STALE in WWE. He doesn't have the BALLS to turn away his merchandise revenue. The only big thing that could happen to Cena post WM, is if he finally lived up to his "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" tagline and stopped taking steroids. Which also, isn't happening.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He doesn't need to turn heel though.

BECAUSE HE RISES ABOVE HATE.

:cena2


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> The Roid losing and never coming close to the WWE Championship again is a pretty big deal to me, I'd be happy with that regardless, even if the show ended with Cena's troll face saying "LOL HEEL TURN, WHAT'S A HEEL TURN?".
> 
> :cena3












:cena3


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Well, no one expects him to anyway, I certainly don't, anyway. If he does, though, I'll happily eat crow.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> If you mean by something big happening, a heel turn, it's not happening, though. Cena is the KING of STALE in WWE. He doesn't have the BALLS to turn away his merchandise revenue. The only big thing that could happen to Cena post WM, is if he finally lived up to his "Hustle, Loyalty, Respect" tagline and stopped taking steroids. Which also, isn't happening.


 I have the right to dream.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll eat various items of clothing if Cena does actually turn heel.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't expect a Cena heel turn, I only want him to win the match at WM


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wait, hold on a second here...

Cena is taking on THE ROID this year, not The Rock... So why post pictures of The Rock :lol?

If Cena lost again this year it would be clear as day that WWE has absolutely no fucking clue what they're doing, even clearer than it is now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Well, no one expects him to anyway, I certainly don't, anyway. If he does, though, I'll happily eat crow.


Reading this forum (esp the Raw threads). i think lots of people are expecting him to, mainly because of that 'OMFG great heel-esque' promo on Raw, IMHo there is more chance of Sting showing up in WWE than Cena turning heel.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Type into Google images "John Cena is on steroids." Some hilarious pictures on there, and uh, some "interesting" ones from his past. :lol

zep- yeah, then they are going to be letdown come WM.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I loved Cena during the Q&A promo this Monday. He played his role perfectly. Rock was at another level there, he was simply brilliant


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena is a legit STRENGTH athlete though. The Roid looks like he's been training purely for hypertrophy since his acting career required him to, hence his increased mass and his transformation from The Rock to Dwayne Johnson to The Roid.

ANYWAYS since this is the DVD/MATCH/SHOW discussion thread and not the DVD/MATCH/SHOW/BODYBUILDING/STEROIDS discussion, I'm going to revert things back to original form..... Watched Cena vs Snitsky from August 2007 that time and it surprised the hell out of me, these CENA VS MONSTER HEEL matches are fantastic and certainly his bread and butter in terms of being a great performer. Watching King Booker vs John Cena from August 2007 now in Boston, and I'm willing to bet it isn't as good as the Snitsky match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

John Cena used to be a BODYBUILDER, which I honestly did not know.

Steroids Assumed.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena is a legit STRENGTH athlete though. The Roid looks like he's been training purely for hypertrophy since his acting career required him to, hence his increased mass and his transformation from The Rock to Dwayne Johnson to The Roid.


 He is not called 'the roid'. He is now called 'The ROCK'. Thanks to Choke2Death :cena3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> He is not called 'the roid'. He is now called 'The ROCK'. Thanks to Choke2Death :cena3


Extra emphasis on The *ROCK*. The steroids make the "rock" turn into capitals. :rock4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't care if his name is The Rock, The Roid, Dwayne Johnson, Roiddango, Cap'n Crunch, or whatever the fuck anybody wants to call him TBH.

He SUCKS.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Extra emphasis on The *ROCK*. The steroids make the "rock" turn into capitals. :rock4


 I thought the reason you called him 'ROCK' was because he ended Punk's title reign and because of that, his name should be typed with capital letters :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Anyways, there is ONE silver lining to Cena winning at WM. And that is me getting to laugh at the reactions of him burying guys left and right post-WM. CAN'T WAIT. LETS DO IT. BURY THESE J-BROS. TIME FOR WWE SUPERSTARS TO PAY THEIR DEBT TO THE CENATION. :cena4


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Thoughts on Rock beating Brock at WM 3O? In the Main Event . :troll


Whats Smackdown 2004 like as a week to week show? Good match quality week to week?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

BANKSY said:


> Thoughts on Rock beating Brock at WM 3O? In the Main Event . :troll




Cena/Taker will main event.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> I thought the reason you called him 'ROCK' was because he ended Punk's title reign and because of that, his name should be typed with capital letters :lol


Haha, nah. The real reason is this thread. Sometimes it's the "thing" to type certain names in capitals, so I took The ROCK and turned it into an "every post" thing because it looks kinda cool.

Other favorites are KANE, SHEAMUS and BROCK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK was the trend setter because he's so unbelievably different and awesome that he deserved his name in capitals .

DAMN STRAIGHT. TIME FOR THESE MOTHERFUCKERS TO PAY UP.

Just finished 2007 Cena now I'm going back to 2006, anybody review the Cena-Angle first blood match and wanna throw some stars at me?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> BROCK was the trend setter because he's so unbelievably different and awesome that he deserved his name in capitals .
> 
> DAMN STRAIGHT. TIME FOR THESE MOTHERFUCKERS TO PAY UP.
> 
> Just finished 2007 Cena now I'm going back to 2006, anybody review the Cena-Angle first blood match and wanna throw some stars at me?


Not to mention Paul Heyman's "BRRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK LEEEEEEESSSSSSNAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR!".

I've seen that first blood match at least three times and it's good every time. One of the first matches where Cena gets HEAVILY booed. His short list of fans there never catch a break because the haters boo him every chance they get. Now for the match rating, I have it at ★★★¼.



> Whats Smackdown 2004 like as a week to week show? Good match quality week to week?


On the odd occasion, you can count on Taker, JBL, Eddie or Angle to have a good match but for the most part, I would give it a pass. The midcard is completely boring even though it features the likes of Cena and RVD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I'm looking to become familiar and catch up with some old school WCW, as in pre-nitro era. I've seen a pack on XWT with all of the PPV's from 1983, when would be the best place to start. I'm thinking of just starting from Starrcade 84 and just go the whole way, but if the first few Starrcades are anything like the first few Wrestlemanias, it really wouldn't be worth it.
> 
> Some help, please?


Nah. The first few Starrcade were much better collectively than the first few WrestleMania's. Starrcade '83 is pretty good overall as a matter of fact. Best matches have been released on DVD, but the entire show is worth a bit of nostalgia fun. If you're intent on going back to their first PPV then you're in line for a long slew to the point I was going to recommend for you to start at, haha. I was going to suggest beginning at around Starrcade '88 & roll on from there b/c that's technically the starting point of "WCW" after Turner made the purchase. Plus, you start from the great Flair vs Luger match and the trend continues till the Nitro era when the wrestling quality dropped off in the main event picture. I know Starrcade '94 says otherwise, but nobody needs to remember that main event. 8*D

Some of the early 90's PPVs suffer from horrid gimmicks. Can't escape it. More often than not the main events or use of grand talent on the rest of the show tends to average things out. Halloween Havoc '91 is a fairly bullocks event though. You've been warned on the bulk of that one. Just wait until you get to 1992 - 1993 :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that Cena's bread and butter happens to be BIG MATCH PERFORMANCES. Since he's the top dog, alot of the time he has been tossed into matches on RAW that last like less than five minutes and serve as nothing more than a showcase, with the early years and 2009 being the notable exceptions to this rule. He's a big time PPV performer, which is why in his biggest match ever (last Wrestlemania against The Rock) he went out there and delivered one of the most impressive carry jobs that I have ever seen. Perhaps the greatest PPV performer in WWE history next to The UNDERTAKER.

About to watch the Cena vs Edge Match w/Foley as the special referee, anybody see this one?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> About to watch the Cena vs Edge Match w/Foley as the special referee, anybody see this one?


Coincidentally, I just finished watching their match from Saturday Night Main Event in July 2006.

That match with Foley as ref gets ★★★½ from me. Their second best TV match after the steel cage one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc Cena vs Edge with Foley as the ref was the only other Cena/Edge match worth checking out next to their Summerslam 2006 match.

Unsure how the Steel Cage circa 2006 or their RAW match following No Way Out 2009 for the World Championship hold up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE 2009 ONE IS REALLY GOOD. *****.

Cena was SO good during the first half of 2009 man, it was actually kind of insane. The guy became a model of consistency week in and week out until that atrocious Jiz feud started, then he regressed to that and the up and down feud with Orton in which they had two good matches, a meh match, and a BAD match (Summerslam 2009). Then Cena had some good matches at the end of 2009 to even things out a little bit before his horrendous 2010 in which he didn't wrestle a single three star plus match on TV all year long, with the only matches he had really worth going out of your way to see being The Batista and Barrett matches (and of course the NEXUS TAG).

Hell, even the Orton-Barrett matches he was involved in were ATROCIOUS.

**** 1/4* For the FOLEY REFEREE bout. Great stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Sheamus in 2010 > most of the Cena vs Batista matches from 2010.

WM was solid at best & Over The Limit I Quit stunk.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on their Backlash 09 match?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The Undertaker?! Pfft. Please. John Cena's performance on PPVs make the hike in price from the AE/RA WORTH the price of admission alone. I mean, the guy JUST BRINGS IT every 30 days. A ***** match or somewhere close EVERY TIME OUT. If it wasn't for him, there would be no Summer of Punk and quite possibly no 434 day title reign for the Punker. I hope Punk made it worth Cena's while to do that for him. Lets be honest Taker, HBK and the like aren't pimples on the ass of John Cena. He owns both.

Anyway, can't wait for a YEAR long John Cena Title reign, pretty much wiping away Punk's reign away from memory. Especially can't wait to see him bury guys like Punk, Henry, Show, and anyone else who gets in his way. Probably beat BROCK again just for good measure. By this time next year, I don't even think many people will remember CM Punk held the title for 434 days. I doubt any clip from Punk's reign is even played on WWE TV between now and then.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Extreme Rules Last Man Standing was pretty good, though.

My favorite Edge/Cena matches have to be.

1. TLC from Unforgiven
2. Steel Cage on Raw
3. 13/2/2006 Raw with Foley as ref
4. SummerSlam
5. Backlash LMS


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs Chris Jericho- Smackdown 2009*






Yup, the first match ever between The Undertaker and Chris Jericho. I remember being excited to see them face off in a match for the first time even if it was wasted on free TV. Jericho is hesitant on going inside the ring but eventually gets inside the ring to start the match. The Undertaker tries to hit Jericho with a punch but Jericho ducks out of the way with Jericho getting some punches in on The Undertaker in the corner turnbuckle. The referee gets Jericho off The Undertaker with Jericho arguing with the ref. Jericho goes after The Undertaker again but the Deadman throws Jericho into the corner turnbuckle with the tables being turned and The Undertaker now on offense. The Undertaker irish whips Jericho to the ropes and bends his back down but Jericho hits him with a kick to the face which gets The Undertaker irate. The Deadman clotheslines Jericho out of the ring. The Undertaker throws Jericho inside the ring and works on his left arm. Taker goes for the pin but Jericho kicks out at 2. The Undertaker works back on Jericho's left arm and tries to go for an Old School but Jericho throws The Undertaker off the top rope and onto the canvas. Jericho is now on offense. 

Jericho throws Taker into the corner and works on his abdomen with kicks to the stomach. The Undertaker fights back, irish whipping Jericho into a corner turnbuckle and tries to go for a running clothesline but Jericho kicks the Deadman in the face. Jericho gets on the top rope and hits a dropkick on Taker. Jericho goes for a cover but The Undertaker kicks out at 2. Jericho is still on offense, putting The Undertaker in a submission hold. The Undertaker is able to break the hold but Jericho knees Taker in the stomach and kicks him out of the ring. Jericho is completely dominating the Deadman at this point. The Undertaker keeps fighting back and irish whips Jericho into a corner turnbuckle and is finally able to hit Jericho with a running clothesline. The Undertaker puts Jericho onto his shoulders and drops him onto the turnbuckle pad. The Deadman runs to the ropes to hit Jericho with a strike but Jericho hits Taker with a dropkick. Jericho goes for a cover but the Deadman kicks out at 2. Jericho gets frustrated and starts to pound on Taker but the ref gets him off. Jericho tries to go for another punch but Taker grabs Jericho by the throat. Jericho hits Taker with elbows to the face and runs to the ropes only to get a big boot from the Deadman. 

The Undertaker runs after Jericho into the corner turnbuckle but Jericho moves out of the way with Taker landing on the top rope. Jericho is on offence now, punching The Undertaker on the corner turnbuckle. The Deadman grabs Jericho's legs and tries to go for a Last Ride but Jericho jumps off. Taker turns around and eats a Codebreaker from Chris Jericho. Jericho goes for a cover but it isn't enough to put the Phenom down. Jericho taunts The Undertaker and tries to give The Undertaker a Tombstone but the Deadman reverses it and tries to give Jericho a Tombstone. Jericho counters it as well and strikes Taker in his left knee. Jericho then follows it up with hitting a Springboard Moonsault on the Deadman. Both men are down while Jericho slowly getting up but Taker pops back up, grabs Jericho by the throat, and tries to give Jericho a Chokeslam but Jericho counters that with the Walls of Jericho. The Deadman reverses the Walls of Jericho, grabing Jericho by the throat again and turning it into a Triangle Chokehold. Jericho is desperately trying to go for the ropes but can't. Jericho taps out, giving The Undertaker the win. 

This was a really good match between the two. Just a fun match with a really good ending. It would have been great if this match was given more time to really make it something special but this match was still good nonetheless. *Rating: ***1/4.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on their Backlash 09 match?


It's ok. Not nearly as much fun when I watched it recently.



ShowStopper '97 said:


> The Undertaker?! Pfft. Please. John Cena's performance on PPVs make the hike in price from the AE/RA WORTH the price of admission alone. I mean, the guy JUST BRINGS IT every 30 days. A ***** match or somewhere close EVERY TIME OUT. If it wasn't for him, there would be no Summer of Punk and quite possibly no 434 day title reign for the Punker. I hope Punk made it worth Cena's while to do that for him. Lets be honest Taker, HBK and the like aren't pimples on the ass of John Cena. He owns both.
> 
> Anyway, can't wait for a YEAR long John Cena Title reign, pretty much wiping away Punk's reign away from memory. Especially can't wait to see him bury guys like Punk, Henry, Show, and anyone else who gets in his way. Probably beat BROCK again just for good measure. By this time next year, I don't even think many people will remember CM Punk held the title for 434 days. I doubt any clip from Punk's reign is even played on WWE TV between now and then.


Yeah, lets keep these kinds of posts out of this thread, please. You don't like Cena. So stop talking about him. Isn't hard.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Edge/Cena TLC is a very bad match. Bollocks.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, lets keep these kinds of posts out of this thread, please. You don't like Cena. So stop talking about him. Isn't hard.


I was quite serious. I used to under-rate him, for sure. But not anymore.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was there live for the first Undertaker/Jericho match . My first time seeing Undertaker live too. And saw Christian/Regal earlier in the night for the ECW taping too. And then Undertaker/Punk casket match as the dark match . What a fucking night!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Honestly think my brain is going to go numb due to how many CENA matches I've watched over the last week, it's over 100 at this point and it's been AWESOME (I don't have much to do, tons of classes have been cancelled and I'm not home so I'm bored as shit).

CENA VS JOHNNY NITRO WITH RVD ON COMMENTARY .

Summerslam 2006 is the GOLD STANDARD (not Shelton Benjamin) for Edge-Cena matches, and the only classic (or damn, even near classic) that they've ever put off together. Probably the most overrated duo in the ring of the last decade.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JoeRulz said:


> Edge/Cena TLC is a very bad match. Bollocks.


(Y)

You lucky bastard, you Cal. Haven't seen Undertaker since he pulled Diesel underneath the ring from a House Show in '96.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Undertaker/Punk casket match as the dark match . What a fucking night!


 What was that like?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Taker in a casket match sounds AWESOME, I can't even lie there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> What was that like?


About 2 minutes long . Undertaker was working injured for most of his WHC run in 09/10 so after having the big match with Jericho he couldn't have a full match with Punk. He did however do a series of casket matches with Punk at houseshows that were good. There are videos of at least one of them out there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unsure about the overrated claim regarding Cena & Edge, KOK. I get what you mean, but it is only a fabricated notion of WWE to make their main event scene feel important. Their matches weren't anything special - if not bad on some occasions. I'd say WWE put more emphasis behind Cena vs Orton as a program. Which did give out better matches in a collective variety, yet was much more overrated in terms of "hype" playing a factor. I do think I like more of their matches than I do dislike at the end of the day. Not counting their seemingly shoddy TV matches. Tables is up in the air. I know I liked it when it aired. Didn't "judge" it via any ratings at the time and took it purely at face value. Nexus guys died. Orton nailed a mid air RKO out of an FU through a table. I had fun.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*Smackdown January 1st 2004*

_*Mysterio vs Tajiri *_★★★1/4

This was a great opening to the show for the cruiser weight title. These two mesh so well with Tajiri having a more psychical style comparing to Mysterio's lucha offence. Goes just over 10 minutes and the last few are exceptional with Mysterio overcoming Tajiri and his goons to win the title. Crowd ate it up as well. 

*Benoit/Cena vs. FBI* ★★

Standard tagteam stuff with a real oddball team of Benoit and Cena . I think Benoit tried to rap in the beginning but had no flow what so ever. :lol . Military press into cross face was cool as fuck.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck that tables match, and the rest of that overhyped CENA VS ORTON OMG garbage :lol.

Watching Cena vs Sabu from WWE vs ECW Head to Head and I just remembered that Sabu is going to be at an indy show nearby where I live tomorrow and I'm wondering if I should go. I mean, the chances that he comes out and kills some local indy wrestler are pretty high (just like SABU) :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BANKSY said:


> *Smackdown January 1st 2004*
> 
> _*Mysterio vs Tajiri *_★★★1/4
> 
> ...


I believe you asked about Smackdown circa 2004. Unsure if you downloaded the whole year or you're playing it by ear with the matches, but truth be told it wasn't exactly their strongest overall. Most shows you could catch about one match, if that, per week and move on. Things hit a bit of a snag during the year for whatever reason. It would pick up again once 2005 came around post WM season.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> About 2 minutes long . Undertaker was working injured for most of his WHC run in 09/10 so after having the big match with Jericho he couldn't have a full match with Punk. He did however do a series of casket matches with Punk at houseshows that were good. There are videos of at least one of them out there.


So there is :


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Edge/Cena TLC is fairly overrted imo simply because of the final spot (which is awesome, but still).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It does have a few "cool" spots throughout. Collectively the match isn't any good at all. Quite contrived. Which is the sole problem when it comes to a ladder match more often than not.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah I got 2004-2007 Smackdown from XWT. I'll probably watch the shows casually just watching the matches which have potential.

Hardcore Holly getting a main event push is so strange :lol .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena-Sabu is actually a really nice brawl. Cena seems to be able to cancel out Sabu's shitty-ness by actually selling his garbage offense as well as he can. One of the early instances of John Boy having to turn into RING GENERAL JAWN SHEENA before it was cool for him to do that on a regular basis.

*** 1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I love that TLC match but I may have to rewatch it again when I reach Unforgiven. Their feud has just started for me and is about to get intense heading into SummerSlam. I also had a bit of a different taste the last time I watched it, so it may change but I highly doubt it as I'm a big fan of spot heavy matches.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Dick Slater and Bob Orton vs. Mark Youngblood and Wahoo McDaniel is :mark:

I need to watch more Orton. The way he just gives Youngblood a backbreaker and tosses him aside is fucking amazing. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I love that TLC match but I may have to rewatch it again when I reach Unforgiven. Their feud has just started for me and is about to get intense heading into SummerSlam. I also had a bit of a different taste the last time I watched it, so it may change but I highly doubt it as I'm a big fan of spot heavy matches.


As Cody said there are a few cool spots littered throughout the match, although I remember one being slightly botched? Been a while since I've seen it, but it's fun for what it was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BANKSY said:


> Yeah I got 2004-2007 Smackdown from XWT. I'll probably watch the shows casually just watching the matches which have potential.
> 
> Hardcore Holly getting a main event push is so strange :lol .


Yeah, you'll know which matches will end up being worth your time. That's generally where the odd aspect of the show went that year. Undercard was nearly tossed aside and it was only the prime guys who got any form of emphasis. For some reason Cena had to squash the Bashams twice a month post WM it seems. Check that nonsense out.

Didn't help things for the show when Undertaker NEVER worked full time either. At least there was Eddie.



FluxCapacitor said:


> Dick Slater and Bob Orton vs. Mark Youngblood and Wahoo McDaniel is :mark:
> 
> I need to watch more Orton. The way he just gives Youngblood a backbreaker and tosses him aside is fucking amazing. :lmao


Never got into much of Orton Jr. I suppose I may need to look more into his days circa UWF. _(I think he was in the good one)_ Overall he seemed to be decent, yet didn't possess much to entice me. Perhaps he deserves a second chance. I generally mark for the manly sluggers in the game.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK. I can't find Cena/Shelton from July 10th 2006, really pisses me off when I click on 80 different links and they all lead to their 'beat the clock' match that I've already watched a few days ago (it was good). So unfortunately I had to move on to the Cena-Edge SNME match and hope that I can find it later, can anybody be of any assistance?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Was the TLC match the one in Edge's hometown?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I think it was in Toronto.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> As Cody said there are a few cool spots littered throughout the match, although I remember one being slightly botched? Been a while since I've seen it, but it's fun for what it was.


I think that's the Sunset Flip from the top turnbuckle. I think they were supposed to go through the table there but they botched it and improvised right after by having Edge powerslam Cena through the table.



KingOfKings said:


> FUCK. I can't find Cena/Shelton from July 10th 2006, really pisses me off when I click on 80 different links and they all lead to their 'beat the clock' match that I've already watched a few days ago (it was good). So unfortunately I had to move on to the Cena-Edge SNME match and hope that I can find it later, *can anybody be of any assistance?*


I guess you're automatically looking in my drection? 



MoveMent said:


> Was the TLC match the one in Edge's hometown?


Yeah, he was crying during his entrance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES. IT'S A MATCH THAT INTERESTS ME.

HOLY SHIT LITA JUST PUNCHED OUT A REFEREE.

OH MY GOD WHAT IS UP WITH 2006. I CAN'T FIND CENA-UMAGA EITHER. FUCK!


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I recall the atmosphere being pretty good, but as far as the match I only remember the finish. Couldn't say the last time I seen it.

Has anyone seen Big E wrestle? I've heard him embarrass himself on the mic but can he at least move around the ring?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> FUCK. I can't find Cena/Shelton from July 10th 2006, really pisses me off when I click on 80 different links and they all lead to their 'beat the clock' match that I've already watched a few days ago (it was good). So unfortunately I had to move on to the Cena-Edge SNME match and hope that I can find it later, can anybody be of any assistance?


I can upload it now .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES PLEASE .

What about Cena-Umaga from the next RAW (ASKING FOR TOO MUCH I KNOW)?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Never got into much of Orton Jr. I suppose I may need to look more into his days circa UWF. _(I think he was in the good one)_ Overall he seemed to be decent, yet didn't possess much to entice me. Perhaps he deserves a second chance. I generally mark for the manly sluggers in the game.


This was the first match of his that I've seen, but just from watching it - and I'm probably wrong - but he has the Arn Anderson appeal in the sense that his offense is very basic and simplistic but it's the way he performs it and the little details he adds in to it that makes him entertaining. I know comparing him to :arn may be a bit too much at this point but obviously this is just a first impression, but I think he's someone I want to search and watch more of.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I can upload it now .


Can i trouble ya to upload that Taker/Kennedy match from Germany?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ MoveMent He hasn't wrestled in the WWE yet so who knows. If his ring skills are anything like his mic skills then I hope he's future endeavored sometime soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> YES PLEASE .
> 
> What about Cena-Umaga from the next RAW (ASKING FOR TOO MUCH I KNOW)?


Sure!



zep81 said:


> Can i trouble ya to upload that Taker/Kennedy match from Germany?


I'll get on that 2morrow. Involves me digging through my discs to find the show with it on. Raw 06 is on my hard drive so no effort required there .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I'll get on that 2morrow. Involves me digging through my discs to find the show with it on. Raw 06 is on my hard drive so no effort required there .


Excellente' Thanks Cal


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> I recall the atmosphere being pretty good, but as far as the match I only remember the finish. Couldn't say the last time I seen it.
> 
> Has anyone seen Big E wrestle? I've heard him embarrass himself on the mic but can he at least move around the ring?


God no. He's honestly one of the worst out there. I think that's why WWE hardly even lets him wrestle on NXT despite being their champion.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Shelton http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj970_cena-vs-shelton-raw-july-10th-2006_sport video is still encoding, shouldn't be long though. Umaga match uploading now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CAL, I've been wanting that Kennedy/Taker match too, so I'd appreciate a link once you've finished uploading it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> This was the first match of his that I've seen, but just from watching it - and I'm probably wrong - but he has the Arn Anderson appeal in the sense that his offense is very basic and simplistic but it's the way he performs it and the little details he adds in to it that makes him entertaining. I know comparing him to :arn may be a bit too much at this point but obviously this is just a first impression, but I think he's someone I want to search and watch more of.


I get the correlation you're referring to. Much of the same with another one like Jerry Lawler. Of course, not comparing Orton Jr to King, but in that same grouping of relying on a simplistic game to get their work across. I like a simple workrate when done in tremendous fashion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES! YES! YES!

To celebrate CAL, I watched CENA vs LITA.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BOB Orton Jr is awesome. I need to check out more of him myself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And Cena/Umaga http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj9dd_cena-vs-umaga-raw-july-17th-2006_sport#.UVNyIxz-WSo again still encoding but shouldn't be long since the Shelton match is already finished.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> @ MoveMent He hasn't wrestled in the WWE yet so who knows. If his ring skills are anything like his mic skills then I hope he's future endeavored sometime soon.


I'm hoping he's good, at the very least be able to do what Ryback can do.

Him and Fandango debuting at Mania could be the worst thing to ever happen to wrestling.



HayleySabin said:


> God no. He's honestly one of the worst out there. I think that's why WWE hardly even lets him wrestle on NXT despite being their champion.


LOL WoW well there went my hope.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't Orton Jr one of the originators of the super-plex in the US? Always comes down to Barry Windham & Orton Jr when it comes down to who made that a staple of their offense in the 80's.

Fandango/Johnny Curtis is a good wrestler. His debut at WM should go well. Helps he has Jericho as his opponent too. Langston though. Yikes. Can't believe he's working at WM, tbhayley.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I'm still in shock that Jericho is wrestling Fandango @ WM. I get that Jericho likes to come back and put people over, but it's getting borderline ridiculous.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love it. It's different. Kind of stuff I like to see more often when it comes making new characters established.

On a card where some of the main events suffer from being stale, something outside the box was desperately needed. Undercard on this show isn't as uninteresting as I was fearing.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The awesomeness of Jericho vs. Fandango almost evens out the shittiness of Barrett vs. The Miz  _ALMOST_


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

In previous weeks (like last week, when it was first rumored), I kind of hated the idea of Jericho working with 'Dongo at WM. But this past week completely sold me on the match. Would have helped if they started feuding alittle bit earlier. But from a pure match standpoint, Curtis is pretty good in the ring, and like Hayley said, working with Jericho will only help their cause. I'm kind of looking forward to the match. At least it's not another rematch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm always down for a Y2J match @ Mania, so naturally I'm all for it just to see him perform. As for the rest of the undercard, I'm not overly thrilled about any of it. 

Henry/Ryback would be cool if it wasn't painfully obvious that Ryback's winning. Hell No vs Ziggler/THIGHS will be awful simply because it includes THIGHS. IC title = :lmao. WTF else is there?

SHIELD is only other match I care about that isn't one of the big 3.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Dick Slater and Bob Orton vs. Mark Youngblood and Wahoo McDaniel is :mark:
> 
> I need to watch more Orton. The way he just gives Youngblood a backbreaker and tosses him aside is fucking amazing. :lmao


Had Jack & Jerry Brisco VS Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood from the same event rated 1/4* higher. Regardless, both are great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ugh. Miz vs Barrett doesn't leave me disinterested from who is involved. Only b/c I fear Miz will win out of a shameless plug for his movie. Not to mention I HATE him using the figure four leg lock. Not out of any sacrilege to Flair. It's out of the fact he does one simply shot to the knee/leg and applies forcing a submission. Must be reading from the Kurt Angle booking of wrestling matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Barrett vs. The Miz


A match reserved for a place in hell


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm liking this tag bout with the RNR & Midnight Express. Odd that the face team is cutting the ring in half and isolating Loverboy Dennis. I usually see that from heels. Damn you WWE machine!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah Miz using the Figure 4 is almost as puzzling as when Cena started using the STFU. They aren't submission specialists. Adding a secondary finisher is one thing, but I hardly think Miz is deserving of a secondary finisher.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> In previous weeks (like last week, when it was first rumored), I kind of hated the idea of Jericho working with 'Dongo at WM. But this past week completely sold me on the match. Would have helped if they started feuding alittle bit earlier. But from a pure match standpoint, Curtis is pretty good in the ring, and like Hayley said, working with Jericho will only help their cause. I'm kind of looking forward to the match. At least it's not another rematch.


Luckily Fandango has managed to generate heat from his prior teases. So, it worked out fairly well up to this point. Still can't believe Johnny Curtis will have a match at WrestleMania. Mind blowing. The guy hasn't even worked an official match RAW yet. haha.



SpookshowTony said:


> I'm liking this tag bout with the RNR & Midnight Express. Odd that the face team is cutting the ring in half and isolating Loverboy Dennis. I usually see that from heels. Damn you WWE machine!


:mark:

Trust me, they get even better. Wait till "Sweet" Stan Lane joins the mix.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think Team Hell No vs. Ziggles and Choc Lesnar will be decent, if not good, as long as Langston is used simply as muscle. As in, he clotheslines Bryan, has a few striking exchanges with Kane and then tags back out to Ziggler or eats the pinfall. The moment they have him in the ring in control is the moment the match spirals downhill.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Barrett vs Miz sounds like a nightmare.

I only care about 3 or 4 matches on the card. ROCK/Cena, HHH/Lesnar, Shield/Orton-ShowMoose and Ryback/Henry would be fourth. Jericho vs Fandumbo sounds like it can be good but the gimmick is so stupid, I can't help but laugh at it. That said, Johnny's leg drop on Monday was awesome as was the heat he got from the crowd. Undertaker has to wake me up and the other matches, SPECIALLY Thwagger/Del Rio can fuck off. Bryan specially deserved better.

I remember when Curtis had those bizarre backstage segment where he spilled milk on himself and then his "long awaited debut" was delayed because R-Truth turned heel and then it was all done to job to Mizark in true jobber fashion before he faded into obscurity instantly after. :lol

Going back to Fandango, I was in tears hearing him yell "WHAT'S MY NAME?" at Jericho. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah Miz using the Figure 4 is almost as puzzling as when Cena started using the STFU. They aren't submission specialists. Adding a secondary finisher is one thing, but I hardly think Miz is deserving of a secondary finisher.


Cena's came out of a good storyline if you ask me. Not to mention he's made it work. Given that it is a submission he's varied in using by relying on his gross power to pull back on the neck and force a submission. Miz doesn't even try and make the leg work matter pardon his match vs Cesaro at Elimination Chamber. That's the major problem here. Coupled in with your on point assessment of claiming he isn't deserving of a secondary finisher. Skullcrushing Finale was a perfect fit for him too. Makes it all the more puzzling and frustrating.



FluxCapacitor said:


> I think Team Hell No vs. Ziggles and Choc Lesnar will be decent, if not good, as long as Langston is used simply as muscle. As in, he clotheslines Bryan, has a few striking exchanges with Kane and then tags back out to Ziggler or eats the pinfall. The moment they have him in the ring in control is the moment the match spirals downhill.


Bingo. Has to be used smartly here and in scarce supply to keep things running smoothly here. Dolph is solid, I love the guy, but even his workover segment on Bryan won't be highly engrossing. We'll have to rely on Danielson's babyface FIP work to certainly sell the match. It has potential to be fun, despite Langston. 3/4 of the match is more than capable of that.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Would be legit surprised if any under card match got over 10 minutes in ring at Mania.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The WrestleMania matches in order of interest for me:

1) The Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show
2) Triple H vs Brock Lesnar
3) Ryback vs Mark Henry
4) Team Hell No vs Ziggler/Langston
5) Undertaker vs CM Punk
6) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger
7) Chris Jericho vs Fandango
8) The Rock vs John Cena
9) Wade Barrett vs The Miz



Choke2Death said:


> Barrett vs Miz sounds like a nightmare.
> 
> I only care about 3 or 4 matches on the card. ROCK/Cena, HHH/Lesnar, Shield/Orton-ShowMoose and Ryback/Henry would be fourth. Jericho vs Fandumbo
> 
> ...







Yeah, I can't believe THIS guy is making his debut at Mania. :no:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena's came out of a good storyline if you ask me. Not to mention he's made it work. Given that it is a submission he's varied in using by relying on his gross power to pull back on the neck and force a submission.


That may be true, although it was a little insulting when it was always applied sloppy as fuck.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Fandango could possibly be Kane vs Orton last year. Going longer than one would have expected. Who knows these days with WM booking. I've learned to go at it with come whatever may. 

One of these matches will have to be insanely short. That's WWE's policy every year. Really. They like to have a short match worked each year now since 24. I know I heard that stated as nearly solid fact somewhere...besides, facts don't lie. (Kane vs Chavo, Mysterio vs JBL, ShowMiz vs Truth & Wisdom, Corre vs Kane, Show, Kofi, & Santino, and Danielson vs Sheamus.)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> The wrestleMania matches in order of interest for me:
> 
> - The Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show
> - Triple H vs Brock Lesnar
> ...



No interest at all for Taker/Punk, eh? :argh:


----------



## 777 (Feb 24, 2011)

On Bob Orton Jr., he was so smooth in the ring he almost seemed lazy when in fact he was just really good, an affliction Randy seems to have inherited.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao I'm still in shock that Jericho is wrestling Fandango @ WM. I get that Jericho likes to come back and put people over, but it's getting borderline ridiculous.


They could of easily held of that Triple Threat IC Title Match for Mania instead of this crap. Miz and Barrett alone is pretty much a borefest but that triple threat was actually a solid match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The funny thing about this Wrestlemania is that a fair few of the matches, in order to fulfill their potential, they need to remain fairly short.

Ryback vs. Henry, in my opinion shouldn't go much over six minutes. Allow both men to slug it out in a sprint fashion, trading huge blows until Ryback presumably gets his huge Wrestlemania win. Any longer and you expose the weakness of Ryback and that's his cardio and his inability to keep the crowd (especially a smarky crowd, one you'd expect at Mania) interested in his matches.

Rock vs. Cena should be kept under 20 minutes, because we all know what happens when a Rock match goes over that length. Hell, if I were booking it, I wouldn't have it got past 15 minutes but whatever, they're not going to do that in their main event of Wrestlemania. Twenty minutes bell to bell.

The 8 person intergender tag will suck ass no matter what time it's given. The shorter the better. The same also applies to Barrett and The Miz. 

My whole point is that it's hardly ever people say that matches shouldn't go on for less than X amount of minutes blah blah blah, other than the odd exception (Cena/Rock, HBK/HHH HIAC) and a lot of the time, it's more "they should have been given five minutes more" but this Wrestlemania, there's THREE matches that should barely touch five minutes and a main event that shouldn't touch twenty minutes. It's for this reason that I full expect crappy, longwinded entrances and live performances to fill up time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Yeah, I can't believe THIS guy is making his debut at Mania. :no:


Fail to see the negative behind it.



The Lady Killer said:


> That may be true, although it was a little insulting when it was always applied sloppy as fuck.


Came with time. I'm not much of an execution mark as some may be. As long as the move was done in the fashion as it needed to be, I'll live. Except for Ezekial Jackson's torture rack. That can go to hell as it looked like the softest submission ever. You'd think a monstrous looking fella such as Jackson would tear away at people with a submission such as that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Yeah, I can't believe THIS guy is making his debut at Mania. :no:


Fuck, he's so goofy. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ Cody Jackson's got nothing on THE NARCISSIST LEX LUGER


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> No interest at all for Taker/Punk, eh? :argh:


Whoops! Totally forgot about that match, I've edited my post now. But I don't have much interest for the match despite being a fan of Punk, I've not been a fan of the storyline direction they've gone with Paul Bearer and the urn, and Punk's big step down compared to previous Taker opponents and when you combine that with how they've treated him since losing the title, (losses to The Rock, Cena, KANE of all people) it's hard to take him seriously as a threat to the streak.



HayleySabin said:


> Fail to see the negative behind it.


Like Big E, I don't like how he's in-ring debut at WrestleMania despite not wrestling a single match on the main roster yet - and only debuting recently. He's taking a WrestleMania spot from a guy like Cesaro or Sandow who's worked all year for it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Whoops! Totally forgot about that match, I've edited my post now. But I don't have much interest for the match despite being a fan of Punk, I've not been a fan of the storyline direction they've gone with Paul Bearer and the urn, and Punk's big step down compared to previous Taker opponents and when you combine that with how they've treated him since losing the title, (losses to The Rock, Cena, KANE of all people) it's hard to take him seriously as a threat to the streak.


Was just busting your balls - I figured you had forgotten. Can't say I blame you really. This is the least interested I've been in a Taker Mania match since WM22 against Henry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> @ Cody Jackson's got nothing on THE NARCISSIST LEX LUGER


NARCISSIST OWNS.



Nostalgia said:


> Like Big E, I don't like how he's making his WrestleMania debut despite not have a single match on the main roster yet and only debuting recently. He's taking a WrestleMania spot from a guy like Cesaro or Sandow who's worked all year for it.


Fair enough. I'm for it simply thanks to him being a talent who could make something come from it. Unlike Langston. Not overhyping the guy, but he _(Curtis)_ is capable. That alone submits possible potential. Cesaro not being on the show after his booking since debuting is damn near criminal though. Sad fact of the company. Not every talent will make it on the card each year. Although, I can't help but feel the Cesaro snub is far, far too undeserving. Leave it to WWE to seemingly put their eggs in the basket of a Cesaro vs Sin Cara random match only to have Cara get injured like he normally does and flat out ruin the final slot for Cesaro to appear.

Sandow might make the card btw. The possible 8 person inter-gender tag is seemingly more and more likely. It'll be filler, but it's a match. Only calling it what it is. Can't say I hate it. I'll take Rhodes at WM in any capacity at this rate to give me hope.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cesaro was being protected like crazy and now all of a sudden he can't win a match. Frustrating.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cesaro throwing Sin Cara around for ten minutes would have been the definition of FUN, imo


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> The WrestleMania matches in order of interest for me:
> 
> 1) The Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show
> 2) Triple H vs Brock Lesnar
> ...


This is a fun & interesting exercise. Mine would look like this:

1. Chris Jericho Vs. Fandango
2. The Undertaker Vs. C.M. Punk
3. Triple H Vs. Brock Lesnar
4. Ryback Vs. Mark Henry
5. The Rock Vs. John Cena
6. The Shield Vs. The Big Show, Randy Orton & Sheamus
7. Team Hell No (maybe with Kaitlyn) Vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston (maybe with AJ)
8. Alberto Del Rio Vs. Jack Swagger
9. Wade Barrett Vs. The Miz


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cesaro was being protected like crazy and now all of a sudden he can't win a match. Frustrating.


I'm seeing a pattern with WWE booking nowadays. Happened with Cody Rhodes after his IC title run was over and Show killed his momentum, happened with Sandow where even Orton would only get a countout victory over him and now Cesaro is being jobbed out clean weekly.

They're all pretty much jobbers now. And they wonder why they can't make any stars.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll chime in with my list of of matches in order of interest:

1. Shield vs Orton/Show/Sheamus
2. Triple H vs Brock Lesnar
3. Cm Punk vs Undertaker
4. Jericho vs Fandango
5. Del Rio vs Swagger
6. Team Hell No vs Ziggy/Big E
7. Ryback vs Mark Henry
8. Cena vs Rock
9. Barrett vs Miz


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

1. Jericho/Fandango
2. Shield/Big Irish Vipers
3. Punk/Taker
4. HHH/Lesnar
5. Rock/Cena
6. Hell No/ZiggleChoc
7. Ryback/Henry
8. Del Rio/Swagger
9. 8 person intergender (if it happens)














10. Barrett/Miz


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know, right? Cesaro was being protected and now he's jobbing weekly. Which I have to say is ass logic for a CHAMPION. Why can't Del Rio squash JTG on a RAW? Fans don't give a damn regardless so why sacrifice it all at the expense of Cesaro.

I'll get in on the WM game:

1) The Undertaker vs CM Punk
2) Chris Jericho vs Fandango
3) Mark Henry vs Ryback & Shield vs Show, Sheamus, & Orton _(thanks to Shield appearing at the biggest show + their general consistency. Tyler Black at Mania is nearly enough to bring a tear to my eye. Metaphorically...nah. I mean it legit. )_
4) Hell No vs Ziggler & no partner.
5) Brock vs Trips
6) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger
7) John Cena vs The Rock
8) Wade Barrett vs The Miz

Ok, it turns out I don't care about half of the card still. Brock & the tag championship matches are weird. It's part of the match I can't wait to see show up at WM from personal love, then their opponents (or partner) are some I can live without seeing again so it leaves me to almost not care. Last three on the list can be interchangable simply I don't care. Cena vs Rock is only going to make me care the moment it comes to the finish. Swagger vs Del Rio is being built up like a European Championship match that I can't care much. Doesn't help knowing it could be a possible burial thanks to Swagger's huge mistake. Maybe that's why the build is weak? Probably not. Barrett vs Miz could be fine in my book if Wade wins. Which won't happen, so screw it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Fair enough. I'm for it simply thanks to him being a talent who could make something come from it. Unlike Langston. Not overhyping the guy, but he _(Curtis)_ is capable. That alone submits possible potential. *Cesaro not being on the show after his booking since debuting is damn near criminal though. Sad fact of the company. Not every talent will make it on the card each year. Although, I can't help but feel the Cesaro snub is far, far too undeserving. Leave it to WWE to seemingly put their eggs in the basket of a Cesaro vs Sin Cara random match only to have Cara get injured like he normally does and flat out ruin the final slot for Cesaro to appear.*


And this is apparently why they've been jobbing out Cesaro for the past month, because he's has no place on WrestleMania card - so they use him to put over guys like The Miz who have a WrestleMania match. It's sad. And I'm not even that high on Cesaro, but they were booking him well, he's held the US Title a long time, he deserves a WrestleMania match that he's worked hard all year for. 



HayleySabin said:


> Sandow might make the card btw. The possible 8 person inter-gender tag is seemingly more and more likely. It'll be filler, but it's a match. Only calling it what it is. Can't say I hate it. I'll take Rhodes at WM in any capacity at this rate to give me hope.


Yes he will likely be, but I don't care for that match at all. And I wouldn't be surprised if that match was on the pre-show too, and pre-show matches I don't really count as ''being on the card''. Rhodes Scholars vs Team Hell No for the Tag Titles would of been better although they've done a match a few times before, but I just don't understand where they're going with Sandow and Cody. WWE had them team up and they ended up not going anywhere, and then they had them break them up, but then WWE realized they were short of teams so they put them back together, and now they're in a worse position than they were before as a tag team.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cesaro was being protected like crazy and now all of a sudden he can't win a match. Frustrating.


 I thought WWE would have gone back to protecting him after he beat ADR on this past RAW but unfortunetly, ADR had to come back in the ring and make him tap out. They are probably going to face each other in the next couple of weeks to redeem ADR's countout loss 

Inconsistent booking right there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll give this WM thing a try.

1. ROCK/Cena
2. Shield/Orton-Show-Sheamus
3. Lesnar/HHH
4. Henry/Ryback
5. Jericho/Fandango
6. Taker/Punk






7. Del Rio/Swagger
8. Hell No/Ziggler-Langston
9. Miz/Barrett


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

*The Shield* vs Orton/Sheamus/Show
Chris Jericho vs *Fandango*
*Undertaker *vs CM Punk
*Ryback* vs Mark Henry
The Rock vs *John Cena*
*Triple H* vs Brock Lesnar
*Alberto Del Rio* vs Jack Swagger
*Team Hell No* vs Ziggler/Langston
*Wade Barrett* vs The Miz

Sad to see a Bryan match so low in my expectations. Team Hell No just haven't clicked in ring outside of The Shield match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why not:

BROCK/Triple H
SHIELD/3 jobbers
Cena/Rock
Punk/Taker
Jericho/Fandango
Hell No/Ziggler & THIGHS
Henry/Ryback
ADR/Alcoholic
Barrett/Miz


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Rock N Roll Express vs Midnight Express for the NWA Tag Team Championship (1986) ***1/2 or ****

Pee-Wee Anderson :lmao

Damn, the deflation of the crowd when ME won was great. I loved the whole venomous atmosphere between both teams. Oh and I can't forget, a :cornette appearance.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Btw, I've concluded that Roddy Piper's punches are some of the best looking punches I've ever seen after watching the Dog Collar match with Valentine.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I love how Barrett/Miz is at the bottom of everyone's lists. :lol I hope the WrestleMania crowd will shit on that match worse than the crowd on RAW did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> And this is apparently why they've been jobbing out Cesaro for the past month, because he's has no place on WrestleMania card - so they use him to put over guys like The Miz who have a WrestleMania match. It's sad. And I'm not even that high on Cesaro, but they were booking him well, he's held the US Title a long time, he deserves a WrestleMania match that he's worked hard all year for.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes he will likely, but fuck that match. And I wouldn't be surprised if that was on the pre-show too, and pre-show matches I don't really count as ''being on the card''. Rhodes Scholars vs Team Hell No for the Tag Titles would of been better although they've done a match a few times before, but I just don't understand where they're going with Sandow and Cody. WWE had them team up and they ended up not going anywhere, and then they had them break them up, but then WWE realized they were short of teams so they put them back together, and now they're in a worse position that they were before as a tag team.


Leave it to WWE to make a champion look like a chump by losing often. I get he has no match signed, but losing weekly? C'mon WWE. You can at least throw the guy a bone by winning on TV here and there too. Doesn't hurt when Cesaro showed up on Superstars last week to have the best match on that program all year long.

Rhodes Scholars vs Hell No at WM would have made me give zero fucks about Danielson & Kane's match for WM so I'm glad it didn't happen. That match happening ten times in the span of two months was atrocious and exactly what fans are complaining about from this show in the first place - rematches. I loathe Langston like no one else on the roster, but AT LEAST I can say the tag championship match on this show will be a fresh match. That's the only positive I'll give it other than WWE putting the championships up at a WM for the first time since 2010, and if it gets time, the first full tilt match since 2006.

WWE has no idea what to do with either Rhodes & Sandow. Their own fault. Mostly with Rhodes. Sandow is plenty fresh so he'll be ok. Rhodes though, yikes. What a drop off. Idiots should have pushed him following his program with Orton & Booker and post WM. Show feud wasn't bad since it gave him his own personal showcase, only it was bad from the point of leaving him stuck in the Intercontinental Championship field when he should have rose above it like he was doing prior. After his solid mini-feud with Christian, he was left jobbing to Sin Cara and that went nowhere till he joined up with Sandow. Only to have that too go nowhere. Ugh. So lost. The path was forming so well for Rhodes only for it to fall out of place in seemingly abrupt fashion.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Anyway, my order of interest

1. ROCK/Cena
2. Lesnar/HHH
3. Shield/Orton-Show-Sheamus
4. Taker/Punk
5. Team Hell No vs Dolph and Big E (only because I'm a Kane fan)
6. Jericho/Fandango
7. Henry/Ryback
8. Del Rio/Swagger
9. Miz/Barrett

ROCK/Cena, I'm only excited to see how Cena will win. He's probably not turning heel but hey, it is still a possiblity, right? Lesnar/HHH would be my second match because they done a good job of building the feud and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw blood in the match. It's also not predictable IMO. Shield match should be great (like all Shield matches are) and there is another possiblity of a heel turn in this match. Not likely but we can't rule it out either. The rest of the matches I'm not really that excited about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Rock N Roll Express vs Midnight Express for the NWA Tag Team Championship (1986) ***1/2 or ****
> 
> Pee-Wee Anderson :lmao
> 
> Damn, the deflation of the crowd when ME won was great. I loved the whole venomous atmosphere between both teams. Oh and I can't forget, a :cornette appearance.


:mark:

Midnight Express. Greatest tag team ever. (Rockers are 1a...)



FluxCapacitor said:


> Btw, I've concluded that Roddy Piper's punches are some of the best looking punches I've ever seen after watching the Dog Collar match with Valentine.


The most violent match and yet it is beautiful to watch. Lovelovelove it.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Oh so Clay/Sweet T/Hood Rats vs. Rhodes Scholars/Bellas got added.

Yikes. THOSE PART TIMERS THE BELLA TWINS TAKING SOMEONES SPOT. They can be added to the long list of people back/debuting at Mania:

The Rock vs. John Cena - The Rock wasn't around in December.
Alberto del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - Jack Swagger wasn't around in December.
Chris Jericho vs. Fandango - Neither were around in December.
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - Neither were around in December.
Mark Henry vs. Ryback - Henry wasn't around in December.
Sheamus/Orton/Big Show vs. SHIELD
Big E Langston/Dolph Ziggler vs. Bryan/Kane - Big E Langston debuted in late December.
The Undertaker vs. CM Punk - The Undertaker wasn't around in December.

Its quite interesting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TENSAI & RHODES AT WM.

Yay.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM order of interest:

1. Shield Vs Orton/Show/Sheamus
2. Lesnar Vs HHH
3. Undertaker Vs Punk
4. Team Hell No Vs Dolph and Big E
5. Henry Vs Ryback
6. Jericho Vs Fandango

And then absolute no interest in the slightest in:

Del Rio Vs Swagger
Miz Vs Barrett
Rock Vs Cena


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Roddy Piper was a really good worker. Possibly the most electric, energetic, and straight-up charismatic wrestler of all time. Even in 90s; the Mania match with Goldust was an awesome brawl and he had a fun match with Hogan at Starrcade.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> TENSAI & RHODES AT WM.
> 
> Yay.


Things are getting better for Tensai as a comedy face. I remember a couple of months ago everyone talked about how he would either request his release or get fired soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 you liked the Piper/Hogan match from Starrcade? Here I thought the only likable Hollywood Hogan match was when he teamed with Rodman back at Bash at the Beach '97.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I also like Hogan/Giant at Hog Wild and Hogan/Sting at SuperBrawl 98. 

NOTE: (NOT STARRCADE 97....SUPERBRAWL 98)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

order of interest

1. SHIELD.
2. Taker/Punk
3. BROCK.
4. CENA.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Rhodes Scholars vs Hell No at WM would have made me give zero fucks about Danielson & Kane's match for WM so I'm glad it didn't happen. That match happening ten times in the span of two months was atrocious and exactly what fans are complaining about from this show in the first place - rematches. I loathe Langston like no one else on the roster, but AT LEAST I can say the tag championship match on this show will be a fresh match.


True. The only reason I said it would be better is because at least two of my favorite wrestlers, Sandow and Ziggler, would be in more relevant matches. To see such a capable wrestler like Ziggler stuck in another filler tag match at WrestleMania, that will likely not get much time at all, annoys me a lot. 



HayleySabin said:


> WWE has no idea what to do with either Rhodes & Sandow. Their own fault. Mostly with Rhodes. Sandow is plenty fresh so he'll be ok. Rhodes though, yikes. What a drop off. Idiots should have pushed him following his program with Orton & Booker and post WM. Show feud wasn't bad since it gave him his own personal showcase, only it was bad from the point of leaving him stuck in the Intercontinental Championship field when he should have rose above it like he was doing prior. After his solid mini-feud with Christian, he was left jobbing to Sin Cara and that went nowhere till he joined up with Sandow. Only to have that too go nowhere. Ugh. So lost. The path was forming so well for Rhodes only for it to fall out of place in seemingly abrupt fashion.


Rhodes is definitely another guy who they've messed up with, but I've never really cared about him so it doesn't bother me too much.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

@Yeah1993
That brawl with Goldust is burned into my brain...including Dustin in women's wear.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The WrestleMania matches in order of interest for me:

1) Rock/Cena (after their promo this past Monday)
2) Taker/Punk
3) Shield/Orton-Sheamus-Show


4) Ryback vs. Henry
5) Swagger/Del Rio
6) Team Hell No vs Ziggler/Langston









7) Triple H vs Brock Lesnar
8) Chris Jericho vs Fandango
9) Wade Barrett vs The Miz


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SpookshowTony said:


> @Yeah1993
> That brawl with Goldust is burned into my brain...including Dustin in women's wear.


Yeah, I watched the match last year after not having watched it in like four years and actually forgot about the fact Dustin was wearing women's undergarments. It all came to me when Piper tore Dustin's outfit off....unfortunately.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I also like Hogan/Giant at Hog Wild and Hogan/Sting at SuperBrawl 98.
> 
> NOTE: (NOT STARRCADE 97....SUPERBRAWL 98)


NO. NO ONE CAN LIKE HOGAN VS GIANT FROM HOG WILD.

At least, so I thought. :$

I like the SuperBrawl '98 match too. Hogan's best from '98. Contrary to popular belief it isn't vs Jay Leno or The Warrior. 8*D


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Oh god, that match with Warrior at HH.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> Yikes. THOSE PART TIMERS THE BELLA TWINS TAKING SOMEONES SPOT. They can be added to the long list of people back/debuting at Mania:


Lol. I never see the divas as taking a spot at Mania considering they always have to have some kind of divas match on the card, no matter how pointless it is. So there's no point in complaining when you know there's always going to be one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets just go back to Dustin Rhodes/Goldust talk so I can trail off into The Artist Formally Known As Goldust pimping. Which I'm convinced is the second greatest gimmick in wrestling history behind Evil Doink.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I watched about two hundred Dustin Rhodes matches in the span of two weeks last year and was struck how by not-bad 98-99 Goldust/AFKAGoldust came off. Fun matches/feuds with Ken Shamrock, Val Venis, and Marc Mero.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Speaking of Goldust, does anyone think they should of done Cody/Goldust at Mania? I think they should of done it at WrestleMania 28, it would of been better than his match with the Big Show imo. Goldust was petitioning for the match to happen prior to Mania - and the storyline he wanted was Cody's IC Title vs his career. And that could of been a real meaningful match with Cody retiring his brother on the biggest stage of them all.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Yeah I thought that was an avenue they were going to go down after Goldust's Rumble return and Rhodes Scholars brief split. Sadly not.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader match from Rumble was classified as fun in my eyes after watching it a few days ago. Always liked it considering their history vs one another. Just funny to see where it was at when they first duked it out, to seeing how it turned around in '98. Vader was the face. Rhodes didn't look nearly the same as he once did. He had blue hair + wearing a thong on the outside of his attire. Attitude Era was a wacky time.

plus this has to be the coolest theme ever:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Due to the current goldust talk, I'm now bookmarking some matches. 

Goldust/Mero @ IYH: Buried Alive
Vs Taker at IYH: Mind Games

I swear I saw one against HBK. Can't find it.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Lol. I never see the divas as taking a spot at Mania considering they always have to have some kind of divas match on the card, no matter how pointless it is. So there's no point in complaining when you know there's always going to be one.


I was joking in relation the Bellas :lol. Just seems almost everyone on the card has returned in time for Mania.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

^ I know you were. I've just seen others complain about the divas match situation at Mania, and I thought I make a point out of it. 


AlienBountyHunter said:


> ^ Yeah I thought that was an avenue they were going to go down after Goldust's Rumble return and Rhodes Scholars brief split. Sadly not.


Yeah, I was going to mention they could of done it this year too with Goldust's rumble return, but no, working a match with two dancing jokes is far better...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Due to the current goldust talk, I'm now bookmarking some matches.
> 
> Goldust/Mero @ IYH: Buried Alive
> Vs Taker at IYH: Mind Games
> ...


Recall liking the Taker matches. Mankind & Goldust forming the bond in '96 over being freaks was stellar.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Wrestlemania matches in order of interest:

1. CM Punk vs. Undertaker
2. The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Sheamus and Big Show
3. Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H

The rest I equally don't care for.

Shield always bring it, so I'm looking forward to what they do on the big stage. They kind of screwed themselves booking wise because Ryback, Cena and Sheamus are perhaps the biggest kayfabe team they could put against Shield and were beaten clean. Why is this trio supposed to look like a threat?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Think it is time I finish one of the shows/sets I began working on. Probably should get around to viewing the rest of The Twisted & Disturbed Life of Kane disc one. Rest of the set has been viewed so once I get the rest watched I'll post some thoughts/mini review on the subject.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Kane DVD is hilarious due to the fact that he loses like 90 percent of the matches on every disc and STILL tries to act like a sadistic mother fucker between matches in a boiler room or where ever the fuck he is :lol. Underrated DVD for sure though, it's like a gimmick match DVD or something with awesome matches such as vs TAKER from SD 2008 thrown in there to make it all worth while.

I've just decided that I refuse to watch all of Cena's 02-04 stuff back when he was a midcarder, as between Orlando Jordan, Rene Dupree, and Kenzo Suzuki he's got like 20 matches :lol. Eventually sometime over the next few days when I finish up Cena's 2005 - present TV singles matches I'm probably gonna ask for his best 15 - 20 matches from that era, because there's no way I have the ability to sit through THAT MUCH Rene Dupree :lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I've just decided that I refuse to watch all of Cena's 02-04 stuff back when he was a midcarder, as between Orlando Jordan, Rene Dupree, and Kenzo Suzuki he's got like 20 matches :lol. Eventually sometime over the next few days when I finish up Cena's 2005 - present TV singles matches I'm probably gonna ask for his best 15 - 20 matches from that era, because there's no way I have the ability to sit through THAT MUCH Rene Dupree :lol.





Spoiler: quality of those matches



THEY ALL SUCK UNLESS HE'S FACING A MAIN EVENTER! :cena3

...or maybe there's a decent match involving RVD in triple threat or singles form. And Carlito's debut match was not bad either.



And how do these kayfabe DVDs work? I've heard about Edge's first DVD being in character but how exactly have they done it? Does he actually insult the viewer or talk about the matches like it's real? :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane's character was based solely around on inflicting pain no manner if the end result was as pleasing as he would have hoped. It fits. Love the set a ton though. From the production of Kane doing the introductions in character, to the burning away pictures each time a new match comes up. It's a ton of fun. Only bleh match so far seems to be vs Matt Hardy from SummerSlam & the underwhelming affair vs Booker at NWO '07. Rest is either great or good. Don't think anything on disc one will touch Kane vs Finlay Belfast Brawl. Maybe Austin vs Kane can come close. Recall it being a stellar match.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)




----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Guys, I need help tracking down these TV matches, all from 2012,any help would be appreciated!

*RAW*
Cena vs Bryan ~ 8/6
Punk & Cena vs Show & Bryan ~ 8/13
Jericho vs Ziggler ~ 8/20
Sheamus vs Sandow ~ 10/1
Sheamus vs Barrett ~ 10/8
Sheamus vs Barrett ~ 10/15
Bryan vs Ziggler ~ 10/22
Mysterio, Cara, Kidd, & Gabriel vs Young, O'Neil, Primo, & Epico ~ 11/12
Punk vs Cena ~ 11/12
Sheamus vs Sandow ~ 11/19
Bryan vs Mysterio ~ 11/26
Cena vs Ziggler ~ 11/26
Sheamus vs Cesaro ~ 11/26
Cena & Sheamus vs Show & Ziggler ~ 12/3
Sheamus vs Ziggler ~ 12/10
Sheamus vs Show LUMBERJACK MATCH ~ 12/24

*SMACKDOWN*
Sheamus vs Orton ~ 5/18
Christian vs Ziggler ~ 6/8
Punk & Sheamus vs Bryan & Ziggler ~ 6/15
Christian vs Del Rio ~ 6/22
Bryan vs Kane ~ 6/22
Jericho vs Sheamus ~ 7/13
Bryan vs Del Rio ~ 10/12
Sheamus & Regal vs Show & Barrett ~ 11/6
Cena vs Del Rio ~ 11/30
Kane, Bryan, & Kingston vs Barrett, Young, & O'Neil ~ 11/30
Sheamus vs Ziggler ~ 11/30
Bryan vs Show ~ 12/7
Sheamus vs Del Rio ~ 12/7


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ultimate Maniacs. Fitting name. :hmm:

Too bad we never got to see that team materialize in action come Survivor Series '92. What charisma.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

1. The Rock vs John Cena II - not sure how this has found its way to top stop!
2. Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - build is meh but this is going to be a war, similar to Trips/Taker III from last years show. 
3. Undertaker vs CM Punk - will probably be the 2nd best match of the night after Trips/Brock and hopefully gives us some good moments. 
4. Ryback vs Mark Henry - Can he ShellShock Henry?!
5. Fandango vs Chris Jericho - :rock4 this should be interesting. 
6. Shield vs Super Friends + Giant - not that interested in this because its probably not going to be on the level of the TLC match and the level of opponents is a step down from last month, other than the possible heel turn Im only slightly intrigued. 

I don't give a fuck about the rest of the card.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My Prediction : Punk-Taker is a match that everybody outside the regulars in this thread hate. Punk has already said that he's taking a more "psychological" approach to this one, meaning that it's going to be less OMG FLASHYYY than the last four Streak matches. When that match is said and done, I'm willing to be that it'll be four plus stars to people who MATTER (US ) and two to three stars to the rest of the morons on this forum. HELL, that may even be the case for HHH-BROCK too.

That Edge-Cena cage match is really, really good and deserves a watch for sure. **** 1/4*.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You recall the Kane vs Edge cage match? That's an Edge match I'll gladly pimp and put over some of his more highlighted matches despite those falling through in the quality content department.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That whole series is :bryan .

Stretcher match, Cage match, GOLD RUSH FINALS, Vengeance match.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think they can go for flashy this time anyway cause of Taker's health. I love a match that relies on psychology so I'm all for it.



HayleySabin said:


> You recall the Kane vs Edge cage match? That's an Edge match I'll gladly pimp and put over some of his more highlighted matches despite those falling through in the quality content department.


Edge is the gimmick match gawd.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stretcher match was ok. It was the only one I didn't think was on par with the rest of their matches in the 2005 series.

Cage
Vengeance
Gold Rush
Stretcher

Ton of fun any way you slice it. That's what matters. Edge seemed to match up better with Kane than Cena when it comes to consistency. _(and then I remember Survivor Series 2010 as I typed this. Shut up._ :$)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That match is the dullest piece of trash that I have ever seen.

Watching Cena vs Nitro W/ KEVIN FEDERLINE at ringside (and yes, I watched the Cena-KFED match earlier today and it made me ashamed to be a wrestling fan. Fucking Vince and his horribly pathetic attempts to me mainstream.).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

K-Fed match is an extra on New Year's Revolution 2007. So is the FAKE Rosie vs FAKE Donald match.

Guess WWE wanted to make a good, consistent PPV have some crap on the DVD to make sure things remain at the status quo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> That match is the dullest piece of trash that I have ever seen.


Even more so than HHH vs Kozlov from SURVIVOR SERIES 08 and Batista vs JBL from TGAB 05?

Haven't seen the former and I was this close to actually doing it but then something inside me prevented it from happening. Seems like I should thank whatever that was.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Edge-Kane is the worst.

Cena has has consistently good matches with SO many guys that it's insane. Watched the Benjamin match a few hours ago and it's top TV match quality, **** 1/4*. Benjamin has an absolute SICK counter of a suplex into a neckbreaker that's absolutely awesome, attempts a FU, Cena attempts a T-Bone suplex, and a ton of other assorted great things happen in that one... Worth checking out for sure.

I was wondering what you guys consider to be a GOOD TV match. Honestly when I'm thinking of a GOOD TV match I'm thinking two to two and three quarter stars, with anything three and above being fantastic with four and over being GOD MODE. When it comes to PPV I expect a higher standard in the quality of matches, so I would go out on a limb and say two and a half is the minimum for a GOOD PPV match.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

@Tanner1495

Kane, Bryan, & Kingston vs Barrett, Young, & O'Neil ~ 11/30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uJHHZN1EqE
Bryan vs Kane ~ 6/22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPx2I0YIVlk


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Missed the Bob Orton Jr. discussion. Anyone looking to get into him, YouTube search for a match against Adrian Adonis. It was for some vacant heavyweight title in some territory. Great stuff. (Y)


KingOfKings said:


> Cena is a legit STRENGTH athlete though. The Roid looks like he's been training purely for hypertrophy since his acting career required him to, hence his increased mass and his transformation from The Rock to Dwayne Johnson to The Roid.


I had to quote this because I'm seriously amazed that someone knows the difference between strength and hypertrophy. I'm sure Cena can throw up 450+ on the bench while Rock might hit 315-365... MIGHT. Two totally different types of lifters. 



KingOfKings said:


> I don't care if his name is The Rock, The Roid, Dwayne Johnson, Roiddango, Cap'n Crunch, or whatever the fuck anybody wants to call him TBH.
> 
> He SUCKS.


ROIDANGO :lmao


The Lady Killer said:


> :hb
> 
> From where did you order it? How much was it? I think I'm gonna do the same.


Late response, but I got it off ebay. Brand new for $6.33 total. I found it in similar price ranges on amazon too.



Desecrated said:


> Also, watch the Great American Bash/Battle of the Belts in the early years. Especially BotB. You've got Wahoo/Flair 2/3 falls, Windham/Flair and Luger/Flair. First two are beautiful.


What were your thoughts on Lex Luger vs. Jesse Barr from the 2nd Battle of the Belts? I seem to be the only person that really enjoys it. Great old school style matchup. *** 1/2 for me, didn't mind the cheap ending.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah The Roid's definitely doing some really high volume training program in which he's putting in 2-3 hours at the gym everyday, and with that brutal schedule probably needs the help of anabolics to get through. That's why I respect Cena more when it comes to the gym ; the guy does some freakish, freakish lifts while The Roid is like THE GAME (who even comes out and says he trains for hypertrophy in his book, rendering it useless to me because I train for strength) in the sense that he doesn't really do fuck all for strength gains because he doesn't need it I guess.

That's why guys like Cena and BROCK are able to toss around big mother fuckers like Henry and Big Show ; it's a combination of GOD GIVEN GENETICS and hardcore low rep high intensity strength training.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Te_l4XGF4Y

Thoughts on this match? I'm surprised Taker and ROCK had a couple TV matches in 2000 because I thought they only had a total of four single matches together. I've seen No Way Out 2002 and didn't like it. The match above is better in terms of pacing. An improvement from their NWO match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Rock was great in the early 2000s on the mic and had some really good matches in the ring. :rock2

I personally like his match with Jericho at No Mercy 2001 the most, though. Easily ****1/4 - ****1/2. I've been on a big Jericho binge recently, as you can probably tell from the avy & sig


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> I personally like his match with Jericho at No Mercy 2001 the most, though. Easily ****1/4 - ****1/2. I've been on a big Jericho binge recently.


 That's better than the Cena binge :cena


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> That's better than the Cena binge :cena












:cena3


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> That's better than the Cena binge :cena


I got a huge Jericho compilation off of IOffer 2-3 years ago. Haven't watched any of it in awhile. The great part of the compilation is (Well, obviously all of it) not only the obvious (WWF/E, WCW, ECW), but it actually has a ton of matches from Japan, Mexico, and even frickin' GERMANY. Some TRUE hidden GEMS that get a good amount of time (IE, not a WWE 5 minute shitfest that passes as "good"). Completely :mark: worthy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena > Chris Jericho.

And I LOVE Jericho.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Of course he is.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena's Performance @ Extreme Rules 2012 > Cena's Performance @ MITB 2011 > Anything Jericho Has Ever Done.

:cena3


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Te_l4XGF4Y
> 
> Thoughts on this match? I'm surprised Taker and ROCK had a couple TV matches in 2000 because I thought they only had a total of four single matches together. I've seen No Way Out 2002 and didn't like it. The match above is better in terms of pacing. An improvement from their NWO match.


I remember this match X__X 

It was pretty solid. My favorite encounter of theirs though was the triple threat with Angle too.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena's Performance @ Extreme Rules 2012 > Cena's Performance @ MITB 2011 > Anything Jericho Has Ever Done.
> 
> :cena3


 I tend to think Cena/Lesnar is extremely overrated by a few folks, although most put it where it belongs. MITB was good, minus a few botches, of course. Give me Jericho in Fully Loaded 2000, No Mercy '08, and WM 19, his feud with Rey Rey in 2009, off the top of my head. That's just match-wise. The clumsiness, sloppiness, awkwardness isn't even being taken into account here.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Jericho's 2008 heel run/feud with Michaels (Which I like to refer to as the end of Ruthless Agression) is my favorite thing Jericho has ever done. 

Cena's unwillingness to grow his character is always gonna be a big reason as to why I can't buy into him anymore


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fully Loaded is Triple H's match all the way though, you could take Jericho out of that one and replace him with a whole host of guys and it would still be an all time GREAT contest, I can't say the same about taking Cena out of the ER match and replacing him with say, Randy Orton. It would drop significantly in quality due to Cena's advanced ability to create a meaningful and well worked/timed babyface comeback after Brock's GOAT heel control segment.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> I remember this match X__X
> 
> It was pretty solid. My favorite encounter of theirs though was the triple threat with Angle too.


 I still need to watch the Triple Threat match. Almost everyone on here have rated it over 4 stars so it should be an awesome match.

I'm surprised Taker and ROCK haven't had a memorable match together. That's like the only big name ROCK hasn't had a memorable match with. He's had great matches with HHH, Benoit, Angle, Austin (obviously), Mick Foley, Y2J and etc. but the chemistry between Taker and ROCK wasn't strong. To be fair, their matches have been ruined with overbooked decisions like the No way out and King of the Ring matches. Although No Way Out was a slow match even before Flair and Vince interfered.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> I still need to watch the Triple Threat match. Almost everyone on here have rated it over 4 stars so it should be an awesome match.
> 
> I'm surprised Taker and ROCK haven't had a memorable match together. That's like the only big name ROCK hasn't had a memorable match with. He's had great matches with HHH, Benoit, Angle, Austin (obviously), Mick Foley, Y2J and etc. but the chemistry between Taker and ROCK wasn't strong. To be fair, their matches have been ruined with overbooked decisions like the No way out and King of the Ring matches. Although No Way Out was a slow match even before Flair and Vince interfered.


I don't think they've ever had a feud that didn't either feel rushed or involved a number of other wrestlers. I remember No Way Out started cause Rock made fun of Taker but other than that I don't remember them having a serious one on one feud.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ah, that's where we disagree then. Don't get me wrong, Triple H was the absolute SHIT in 2000. He and Jericho were actually my two faves from 98-02 when HBK was MIA. But if you just put some random face in there in Jericho's place, I don't think the match is all that well recieved by the crowd. Jericho was also MAJORLY over as a face in that time period and a HUGE part of the reason the crowd were into that match was because they wanted Jericho to win, which of course, he didn't. I think Jericho's offense complimented Triple H's style perfectly in that match. Jericho sold well and got some real sympathy from the crowd and he really had them behind him in that match. I think both guys contribute to a match. The "this was this guys match" stuff is so overdone, especially in a great match. If you're going to have a truly great match, you can't have just one guy out there by himself doing all of the work. I think Jericho kept up with Triple H pretty darn well. Just my .002

About to watch Jericho, JUVI, GEDO, and JUSHIN LIGER vs, REY MYSTERIO, Lance STORM, ULTIMO DRAGON, and Yuji Yasuroaka in an 8 Man Tag Match. :mark: :mark: :mark: This might be my favorite compilation of all.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jericho was BAD in the WWF for the first few years, he even came out and said this himself in his book. Trips really did carry the hell out of him last night as he was in the middle of perhaps the greatest PRIME in WWF/WWE history sans HBK 96/97 and MAYBE Austin 01.

FINISHED WITH 2006, meaning I have another 8 TV matches from 2008 until I have every single JOHN CENA TV SINGLES MATCH watched from 2006 - present in under a week. That's pretty fucking impressive, this Cena binge is insane.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Saying Jericho was bad in the WWF in his first few months isn't a bad thing. The WWF style sucked in 1999. Lets not even go there with Cena's first few years in the WWE. He had no choice but to adapt to the shitty style, and he did and made a hell of a career out of it for himself, I'd say. To the point where he's teaching guys today. He's a GIVING kind of guy.

Back to the JERICHO BINGE. It just isn't fair to compare this compilation to anyother.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Maybe a match between Rocky and Taker at WM30? Rocky's gonna need to work on his cardio in a big time way though, to help produce a match worthy of Taker's last. I'm really surprised that him and Taker haven't had some altercation in a way, no backstage segment, no interview interruption. It's kinda weird considering all the history alongside them.

As for the Jericho-Cena, Jericho is the superior worker. Jericho's peak work (HBK 2008, 2003 and Chris Benoit 2001) is slightly above Cena's peak work (Punk 2011, 2012). I hated their MITB match. The crowd made the match, most of the wrestling was bonkers anyways. I would classify the RAW 2013 match as their best and give it a *****3/4* starz rating.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Daniel Bryan's 2011 WWE Superstars Matches*


1) Daniel Bryan & Mark Henry vs Ted Dibiase Jr & Tyson Kidd ~ *** _(1/6)_


2) Daniel Bryan vs Ted Dibiase Jr ~ **3/4 _(2/24)_


3) Daniel Bryan & Gail Kim vs Tyson Kidd & Melina Perez ~ *** _(3/24)_


4) Daniel Bryan vs Drew McIntyre ~ ***3/4 _(8/25)_


5) Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater ~ *** _(9/8)_


6) Daniel Bryan vs Trent Barreta ~ *** _(9/29)_


7) Daniel Bryan vs William Regal ~ ***3/4 _(11/10)_​

The epitome of FUN. Danielson on Superstars wasn't exactly a negative considering the caliber of matches he got to pump out. Funny isn't it when one is on Superstars it is due to the worker having nothing really of note to do that week in a wrestling capacity on either RAW or Smackdown, yet it is the place where wrestlers were given the most freedom to work matches not seen on general WWE TV. Always got a kick out of the irony. Anyways, if you got about an hour to kill, watch all of these. At least the match vs McIntyre. Which had to be my favorite next to the obvious pick vs Regal. Danielson & Drew go out there and kill each other with some vicious hits. Even Drew's slight botch on a run-up Superplex was saved to only add into the gritty nature of the match. It's wonderful. How the many doesn't receive a push, I'll never know. 

Debating if I want to roll on with more 2011 Superstars goodness or if I want to make the Daniel Bryan 2011 project commence. NXT would be a good place to hit up next. Think he had rematches vs McIntyre & Slater on the show too. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't let your hate for Cena get in the way of what he has done over the past 10 years ; I.E his epic 2007 or 2009 run where he was cranking out good matches every single week, or the last few years of the PG era where he went out there and wrestled in some of the greatest matches ever, it's just FALSE to say that Cena isn't a good worker.

EDIT : JESUS. NOTHING UNDER ** 3/4? HOLY FUCK.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hmm, don't think ROCK - Taker would be good. Cena - Taker would be the best option because they have proven chemistry and Cena is arguably the biggest threat to the streak.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not a bad string of seven matches, huh? Danielson may have had the strongest crop of matches in 2011 if he didn't get jipped for some bouts on RAW & Smackdown. Namely in terms of time while on RAW & if he wasn't paired vs Sin Cara as often as he was on Smackdown. Mark Henry matches & vs Miz on 2/14 make up for it.

Forgot to chime in on how Danielson vs McIntyre is easily one of the, if not the best, sub-ten minute match of 2011. Can't think of one that has it beat within the year. Totally one of my favorites from the last decade off the top of my head.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Hmm, don't think ROCK - Taker would be good. Cena - Taker would be the best option because they have proven chemistry and Cena is arguably the biggest threat to the streak.


I agree, was just going with the flow of the Rock-Taker talk.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

What are your opinions on the RVD-Eddie feud back in 2002, What would you give their PPV matches and their ladder match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NXT run for Danielson is already off to a promising start. Rematch vs Slater was a better outing than their Superstars match in about half the time & Danielson vs Derrick Bateman in a Pro vs Rookie clash was much more decent, if not fun collectively, than I was expecting. Despite me enjoying Bateman for what he brings.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

I don't get the heat for Cena. Or, to put it better, I don't get the disrespect. Ok, I get it, his character blows and is a huge fucking douche and a younger, less GLAAD-Aware, version of myself would have called him an F bomb. Because he sucks coming out in his dumbass bright shirt giving roughly the same promo (but then again who doesn't these days) again, playing the cleanest babyface of all time probably (yes) and he blows. But he's good at it. The real John Cena is damn good at being the WWE John Cena. 

Not only is he good at it, but he's one of the most dedicated. He does anything for the business, and he wants to be here. He's carried the company LONGER than Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold, Rock, Hulk Hogan, any name you got. He's had a million classic matches. So yea, his gimmick sucks and everything he says is stupid, but don't put that on John Cena. That's Vince McMahons idea, ultimately, but Cena is also "the guy" and has been for forever. So it kinda makes sense.

So hate on Cena all day. But you have to understand he's an all-time great too.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Rock/Hogan (WM 18) ****3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Daniel Bryan's NXT 2011 Matches​*
_(1/4)_
1) *Battle Royal*
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler vs Chris Masters vs Ted Dibiase Jr vs R-Truth vs Ricardo Rodriguez ~ DUD


_(1/18)_
2) Daniel Bryan & Derrick Bateman vs Ted Dibiase Jr & Brodus Clay ~ 1/2*


_(1/25)_
3) Daniel Bryan vs Ted Dibiase Jr ~ *


_(2/1)_
4) Daniel Bryan & Derrick Bateman vs R-Truth & Johnny Curtis ~ *1/4


_(2/15)_
5) Daniel Bryan vs Derrick Bateman ~ **


_(7/5)_
6) Daniel Bryan & Derrick Bateman vs Darren Young & Titus O'Neil ~ *1/2


_(10/4)_
7) Daniel Bryan vs Heath Slater ~ ***​

Ok, clearly not as strong as his performances via Superstars. vs Dibiase this time around was so boring. And it got plenty of time too, so that excuse is out the window as to why it didn't work. Things did improve towards the latter matches. Like I said, Danielson vs Slater II was stronger than Danielson vs Slater I. So check it out. (Y)


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

KidCharlamagne said:


> I don't get the heat for Cena. Or, to put it better, I don't get the disrespect. Ok, I get it, his character blows and is a huge fucking douche and a younger, less GLAAD-Aware, version of myself would have called him an F bomb. Because he sucks coming out in his dumbass bright shirt giving roughly the same promo (but then again who doesn't these days) again, playing the cleanest babyface of all time probably (yes) and he blows. But he's good at it. The real John Cena is damn good at being the WWE John Cena.
> 
> Not only is he good at it, but he's one of the most dedicated. He does anything for the business, and he wants to be here. He's carried the company LONGER than Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold, Rock, Hulk Hogan, any name you got. He's had a million classic matches. So yea, his gimmick sucks and everything he says is stupid, *but don't put that on John Cena. That's Vince McMahons idea*, ultimately, but Cena is also "the guy" and has been for forever. So it kinda makes sense.
> 
> So hate on Cena all day. But you have to understand he's an all-time great too.


Yes, because John Cena, the top guy and the face of the company, has no say over what his character will be unk2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> What are your opinions on the RVD-Eddie feud back in 2002, What would you give their PPV matches and their ladder match?


God I love their matches. Backlash is incredible, **** for that and the ladder is one of my favourite singles ladder matches ever at ****1/4. Their JD and Insurexxion matches are a step down but both around the ***1/4 IIRC. Back then I didn't have access to the interwebs so when Eddie disappeared in 2001 I had no fucking clue what happened to him. Then 2002 comes along, they do the brand split and BAM Eddie shows up out of nowhere, attacks RVD, and ends up winning the IC title . Was a big Eddie fan even back then and wasn't that high (no pun intended) on RVD either lol. But between Eddie and Benoit that year RVD had a number of really good matches, plus some fun TV matches with Undertaker for the WWE Title too :mark:.

Oh yeah, WM X8 review in my BLOG~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I always get the impression Flair/Taker gets forgotten, its a fucking big deal as you say Cal, FFS it's RIC Flair and.............THE UNDERTAKER, in a really great match, loved the build up to this, Taker was so good on the mike in that time too, and i agree, it should really be as big as Rock/Hogan - LEGEND vs LEGEND is very fitting.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What did Eddie and RVD even feud over? I can remember their ladder match but I can't remember why they hated each other's guts and why they felt they needed to kill each other in it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just feuding over the IC title pretty much. Was important back then .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What's everyone's opinions on Taker and Punks first feud over the WHC a few years ago? I might go back and watch those matches in preparation for 'Mania sinceI can barely recall them. STARZ and whatnot?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's everyone's opinions on Taker and Punks first feud over the WHC a few years ago? I might go back and watch those matches in preparation for 'Mania sinceI can barely recall them. STARZ and whatnot?


Well here is the bonus house show casket match: - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/15928913-post4681.html


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ah, thanks Zep. That's helpful. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Punk Matches:



Spoiler: reviews



CM Punk Vs The Undertaker - Breaking Point 2009

Match is submission only. Undertaker has NEVER lost via submission. The match takes place in Montreal. Lets face it, everyone and their drunken scottish friend knew there was gonna be a screw job at the end, but that doesn't mean the match can't be really good!

Punk gets some strikes in early on, and looks cocky as shit, only for Undertaker to shake everything off and begin to maul the WHC with rights, lefts, and boots to the face. I'll go to my grave calling the Dead Man the best "striker" (as WWE likes to call him) of all time. Not because WWE say he is, because he legit fucking IS.

Anywho, Punk gets a little control on the outside in a nice spot with Undertaker doing the old "running boot gets caught on the ropes" routine, only he gets caught on the barricade instead and it looks pretty painful. 

Punk gets bits of offence in here and there with Undertaker mainly keeping control of the match, but any time Punk DOES get something in, its big. The superplex for one, and the HUGE kick to the head. Just before the kick, Undertaker is beating the hell out of Punk and signals for a chokeslam, and you can actually see him with a huge silly grin on his face like he's having the time of his life lol.

So Punk kicks 'Taker, but when reaching down, Punk gets caught in Hells Gate! Tap out! New champ! New champ! New champ! STONE COLD. STO... UNDERTAKER! UNDERTAKER!

Dammit, worst GM ever, Teddy Long, has to remind us that Hells Gate was suspended back in fucking 2008 by Vickie Guerrero so the match will continue. Screw job on its way! 

Last Ride attempt is reversed, and Punk locks in the Anaconda Vice and the ref calls for the bell! Punk wins! Punk wins! Punk wins! STONE COLD! STON.. UNDERTA... PUNK! PUNK! PUNK!

Match is fairly short and has the screw job finish which is all kinda fast and comes out of nowhere. Its not a BAD match in any sense of the word, but it isn't exactly a classic either lol. Doesn't get time to develop into anything special, and the finish kinda takes away from it too.

Rating: **1/2


CM Punk Vs The Undertaker - Hell in a Cell 2009

Watching the video package before the match makes me remember how fucking silly some of this shit was. "WHERE TO, TEDDY?" :lmao and of course, the reasoning behind the whole thing from Teddy Long: "I have a family" :lmao. I still don't think they ever explained WHY Vince and helped Punk screw Undertaker lol.

Man, Punk is great in this. From being so scared early on that he falls to the floor and rolls out of the ring, to how he takes his beating on the outside being thrown into the cell and whatnot, to him gaining the upperhand and going after the leg. Crowd are hot for this one, chanting for BOTH men.

Love Punk's running knee to the face on the apron rather than how he's do it in the ring, then Undertaker countering the follow up bulldog buy launching Punk into the side of the cell. 

'Taker is great too of course, and takes some bumps into the cell, as well as continuing to sell the leg work from Punk all through the match. Also, I think he may be wearing white underwear . 

Damn, match is just barely over 10 minutes, and holy fuck is it WAY better than I remembered. Despite Punk losing the belt, he looks great throughout. Undertaker sells the leg incredibly well, and the whole match is genuinely really good. With everything they did in the match, it felt twice as long. Wish I'd gotten around to re-watching this sooner!

Rating: ***1/2


CM PUnk Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 10/23/2009

Teddy Long and Scott Armstrong are out for this match with Punk. Teddy at ringside and Armstrong as the referee, with Punk basically saying he's gonna screw Undertaker again and regain his title. Submission match too!

I remember this match being the best of their 09 series, so I can't wait to see it again!

Oh yeah, anyone remember the theme song for SD during this time? Loved it. Way, way better than the shite they have now.

Punk looks fucking GIDDY on the outside because he has his plan. Undertaker while handing over the title to Armstrong gives the ref a look that would kill him and his entire family. Little things. Gotta love em.

Oh man, the exchange early on where Punk almost locks in the Vice and UNDERTAKER looks desperate to escape then backs away while looking at the ref is like, fucking AWESOME. Wonderful storytelling from such a simple exchange :mark:.

Shhhiiiiiit, that bump from Undertaker where he gets his leg caught up in the ropes? DAMN. Undertaker wasn't 100% during his 09 title run, but fuck, aside from his matches not being too long, you really couldn't tell. He still bumps like a motherfucker, and you just HAVE to respect him for that. He might not be 100% but dammit he gives 100%.

Punk being just as desperate while escaping from Hells Gate as Undertaker was earlier is a neat little callback from the beginning of the match .

Punk gets control of the match again, and gets Teddy Long and Armstrong to give him a chair so he can hopefully finish the match and get his title back. Except Undertaker blocks the chair shot and takes out the ref with a chokeslam!!! Teddy runs away as Punk locks in the Anaconda Vice, signaling to Teddy to ring the bell. Teddy calls out another referee because apparently he can't end a match, and the new referee isn't biased! Undertaker counters into Hells Gate, and the Dead Man retains!

Yeah, this is great, and definitely their best 09 match together, yet still behind their 2010 match which is pretty fucking AWESOME. Well worth a watch for sure, bitches!

Rating: ***3/4


The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - WWE Smackdown 10/09/2010

Not often I get the "big match feel" from a TV main event these days, but they managed to do it here thanks to the great promo at the start of the show between these two men, and the fact that Punk sent the SES to the back so he could do this on his own.

Punk is determined to make a statement tonight against The Undertaker, while The Undertaker is here to show his brother Kane that despite not being 100%, and having not wrestled for a couple of months, he can still go. Pretty high stakes for both men in terms of storylines (Undertaker) and character (Punk).

Pointed this out in the SD thread, but I gotta mention it again; the pop Undertaker gets for doing nothing more than taking off his hood and rolling his eyes back is EPIC.

Undertaker is taking things slowly, not rushing into anything straight away, because he realises he isn't at his best, and Punk IS a dangerous man. Despite a slow start though, Undertaker gets in control as he begins to work over the arm, setting up to Old School and then something bigger. However, in his weakened state, Undertaker isn't able to keep his balance and falls on the ropes. Punk looks a little shocked at what just happened, but doesn't waste much time in taking advantage.

The awesomeness that is Punk comes out now, as he starts working over the arm and screams "how do you like it?" at Undertaker. Undertaker makes Punk look like a million *insert currency here* with how he takes Punk's offence and how he sells it too. Not often you see Undertaker getting dropped from a single Punk, especially not from a smaller guy, but it happens here. Undertaker knows exactly how his character should be acting due to the circumstances, and he plays it better than maybe anyone else in the world could. Going back to what Clique said about Undertaker being the best seller ever, matches like this prove that he might very well be the best seller in the world RIGHT NOW at the very least.

We get a few Undertaker hope spots, but between Punk cutting him off, and Undertaker simply not being able to follow up, Punk continues to control this match and looks certain to win.

Punk continues to look extremely strong in this match even when Undertaker is making a comeback, mainly during the part where he goes punch for punch with the Dead Man in the centre of the ring for longer than anyone Punk's size should, and also kicking out of a Chokeslam!

The finish keeps Punk looking strong too, as he finally hits the GTS, but can't follow up straight away due to taking the Chokeslam a few moments ago. When he finally crawls over for the cover, Undertaker pulls out THAT SUBMISSION HOLD and gets the victory. Like I said, keeps Punk looking strong due to kicking out of the Chokeslam and managing to hit his finisher, and then showing us that The Undertaker can still pull out the quick win when it comes down to it. Helps with the build to the NOC match with Kane too.

This is one hell of a match. Undertaker sold his "condition" incredibly, and Punk looked fantastic with his offence and how he controlled 90% of this match, and came sooooo damn close to actually winning. Kept both men looking strong, and continued the great build up to Kane Vs The Undertaker. Not sure if I would call it the current TV MOTY, but its real close.

Rating: ****


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Have only watched their Insurexxtion match, So i just wanted to know if the rest of the series consisted of only that "peak" in match quality. Gonna have to watch their BL and Ladder match for sure though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Didn't Punk and Taker have two SD matches during 2010?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah but the other was really short and had some bullshit finish or something. Don't remember it that well, not worth seeing though.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

To everyone hating on old ass Taker, stop worrying and learn to love the gangly-armed fiend.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Salt Upon Wounds said:


> To everyone hating on old ass Taker, stop worrying and learn to love the gangly-armed fiend.


Well ive loved him since watching his WWF debut, cant see there is any real hate in here........better facking not be.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some really good looking House Show matches for the Taker since 2001:

http://www.phenom.estranky.cz/clanky/house-show-match-history-part-.html

The ones at the end of '03, like _November 2nd, Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Result: Brock Lesnar def. Undertaker in a Street Fight Match_ and _October 12th, Manchester, England
Result: Undertaker & Kurt Angle def. Brock Lesnar & John Cena_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Woo just got my stuff from SV. Took a while compared to normal because they were absolutely bombarded with orders thanks to their new "everything buy 2 get 1 free" sale lol. Gotta love how the ECW D2D DVD only advertises the two matches that were actually announced for the show . No wonder the show bombed back in the day, only telling us about 2 matches for a 3 hour PPV. So I understand that the original ECW did that back in the day, but it just didn't work in WWE. At least WWE announce the full card about a week in advance these days :side:.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

You actually bought December To Dismember?! Wow, I don't think I know anyone who owns that. Are you going to power through it and post a review confirming it as one of the WOAT PPVs?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was one of the free DVD's, so technically didn't buy it . Just wanted it for my 2006 collection. Got all the SD and tri band PPV's, and some of the Raw ones. Needed the ECW one. Plus I'm still half way through my 2006 project, and when I get to when ECW starts up I'll be doing Raw and ECW at the same time. Just need to get past the hurdle of me not being arsed atm and then I can get to it .


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

zep81 said:


> Well ive loved him since watching his WWF debut, cant see there is any real hate in here........better facking not be.


Well, I've just watched a cross promotion match between him and Jinsei Shinzaki that I was super hyped to watch, and Taker corpsed it with every possible pun intended, so yeah, I kinda get why someone would hate him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton, Benoit, Jericho & Maven Vs HHH, Batista, Edge & Snitsky - Survivor Series 2004

Fuck me sideways, why have I never seen this since like, it aired? This is tremendous, definitely up there as one of the best SS Elimination matches. Story going into it is great, with Evolution trying to take over Raw because... they're Evolution, and the rest of the roster taking exception to it and finally taking them down a peg or two. Bischoff makes the match and announces that the winning team each get to run Raw for a week, and of course this means everyone, even on HHH's team, wants to win so they can make a match for the WHC between themselves and HHH. High stakes no doubt. Maven gets taken out backstage before the match by Snitsky, so he isn't around for a while. Plenty of great action with everyone else though, and they do a great job of constantly teasing dissension on the heel team because HHH knows they are all after him. Awesome spot where Edge tags in both HHH and Snitsky by accident, and HHH and Snitsky start arguing over who is the legal man. Batista steps between them to defend HHH, and while those two are staring each other down, Jericho locks HHH in the Walls of Jericho and HHH is screaming to get their attention :lmao. Maven shows covered in blood and takes it to Snitsky, busting him open too, which leads Snitsky to deck Maven with a chair and get himself DQ'd. Maven gets eliminated from that. Oh, bullshit that Benoit of all people is the first to go. He definitely should have stayed longer. Orton ends up the last man on his team with Edge and HHH the last two on their team. Makes sense since HHH/Orton is still a major story going on at the time. Oh, and fuck, can't forget FLAIR on the outside. He grabs Jericho's legs while he's attempting a Lionsault, so the ref sends him to the back. Flair is fucking livid, ranting and raging on the outside, and I love how he throws his jacket at sign guy who is loving the fact Flair has been ejected from the match. Final 2 are HHH and Orton of course. Thankfully there isn't long left so they aren't going to have a 20 minute match between themselves to end this thing lol. LOL at the sign "lol batista can't get over" in the crowd. About 2 weeks later Batista would be over as FUCK. Dumb as shit fan . Heard a lot about the Pedigree countered into an RKO spot that ends the match... was cool. Not spectacular or anything like I was expecting, but a great way to end the match. This is awesome and shit. ****1/4.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Salt Upon Wounds said:


> Well, I've just watched a cross promotion match between him and Jinsei Shinzaki that I was super hyped to watch, and Taker corpsed it with every possible pun intended, so yeah, I kinda get why someone would hate him.


What year was that94/94? If it was during Taker's 'zombie character' period, then it's kinda expected, even in Japan


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

1997. I love Taker but he can't work puro for shit, same as Bret.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

This may seem like a retarded question to some but what exactly is the puro style of wrestling? What makes purp, puro? Also what the heck is this Joshi (spelling?) style of wrestling I keep hearing Dave Prazek mention every time I watch a SHIMMER show? Yeah, should have asked this in the Other Section but hey, it got brought up here.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

sharkboy22 said:


> This may seem like a retarded question to some but what exactly is the puro style of wrestling? What makes purp, puro? Also what the heck is this Joshi (spelling?) style of wrestling I keep hearing Dave Prazek mention every time I watch a SHIMMER show? Yeah, should have asked this in the Other Section but hey, it got brought up here.


Joshi is women's puro. When someone mentions puro they are usually talking about a mixed wrestling style comprised mostly of 90's King's Road AJPW style, which relies heavily on storytelling, heavy brawling, psychology and NJPW's strong style which relies heavily on martial arts, submission wrestling, catch, etc. Of course, all of that is mixed with lucha, european wrestling and north american styles.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship - Missed Gems*

*HHH/RVD, Raw 6/30/2003:* ***1/2. cagematch.net informed me that this was a Falls Count Anywhere match, but only 5 out of 17 minutes that were with such stip. This was a good match, with traditional Trips and Van Dam greatness. Both men sold each other perfectly, the pace was good too. Too bad the crowd kinda stinked (except for the Falls Count Anywhere portion), as that brought a minimal amount of dullness into this one. It was also overbooked to death (as most HHH '03 matches were). There were some cool spots in this match, and the whole thing was very good, but this was mostly a 17 minute match that served as hype for the RVD/Kane match at SummerSlam that year. Still, it's worth a watch if you're a fan of the HHH/RVD matches, but it far from lacing Unforgiven 2002's boots for sure.

*HHH/Maven, Heat 7/13/2003:* ***1/4. It was a pretty solid contest, better than the one from November 2004, even if it was much, much less believable than that one (believable in a way that Maven stood a chance at actually winning the World Title, maybe because it happened at fucking Sunday Night Heat). Maven looked pretty good here, as he actually got more offense than Trips did. For my surprise, everything here felt crisp and well executed (they had nice chemistry - it seems like Hunter had more chemistry with his jobber opponents than he has with many of the Main Eventers). Crowd heat was above average, commentary was really good too, match was nice.

*Goldberg/Jericho, Raw 9/22/2003:* ***1/4. I don't remember much their Bad Blood match, other than knowing it was OK. With that said, I'm pretty sure this one winded up being better. It wasn't one-sided like most Goldberg matches were, but it wasn't an absolute carryjob like I figured out it would wind up being either. It had a SICK moment (Goldberg spearing the steps, which looked dope for what it was), Bischoff played his special enforcer role rather calmly, crowd heat was OK too, nothing here was too bad. It was a fun match, a rare good one in the arsenal of Goldberg's WWE run.

*NEXT:* Goldie meets THAT'SWHATHEDOESBITCH, a rematch from Bad Blood 2004, and the rage of an Animal upon Muhammad Hassan...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Smackdown 26th October 2000 - Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko*

This match is very short and not really worth saying much about. Benoit, after saying on Raw that "thing are gonna change" re-teams with Dean Malenko, and Triple H follows suit by teaming with Road Dogg. Benoit and The Game start it off and exchange heavy right hands before Benoit hits a suplex and he and Malenko get in charge. HHH tags in Road Dogg and he goes to town on Malenko before the match falls apart and Triple H and Benoit battle on the outside. Road Dogg looks like he's about to get the win before Perry Saturn (another former Radicalz member) arrives at ringside and distracts him. Malenko locks in the Texas Cloverleaf and Road Dogg taps out. Triple H cleans house at the end.

Not much to say about this, an extremely basic and lackluster tag match that hardly warrants a rating, though I will give it one just for continuity.

**1/4*

*Smackdown 2nd November 2000 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*

So, here we get the re-match between the two from No Mercy. I recall this not being particluarly good (mostly due to the short time) but let's see how it holds up.

Benoit goes straight for Triple H after he comes down from posing at the top of the turnbuckle. Both men exchange hard blows before Triple H tries to hit an early Pedigree. Benoit counters and tries to go for the Crossface, before hammering away at the shoulder of The Game that has been weakened over the past month. The match then heads to the outside and Triple H drop toeholds Benoit into the steel steps before slamming him down on the barricade. Both men seeming to want to simply beat the hell out of each other in this one.

Triple H suplexes Benoit in from the apron with solid impact, before working on him in the corner. Benoit comes back with a reverse suplex, but it's not long until the referee is knocked down. Triple H goes for the Pedigree but down comes Malenko and Saturn to interfere. Triple H gets rid of them both, and hits the Pedigree on Benoit. The referee is still down though and Eddie Guerrero arrives and downs The Game with the IC title belt. The referee recovers and counts the three.

An ok match, obviously both men can do a lot better but this was mainly to keep Benoit over with a win, and re-introduce the Radicalz as a full group. A little longer would have been nice due to their excellent performance a few weeks prior at No Mercy, but oh well.

***3/4*

Not the most exciting entry, but next up we have The Radicalz all together for a big 8 man tag, before jumping ahead about 7 months for one of the GOAT Raw matches.



Spoiler: So Far



*So Far:
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4*


​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Orton, Benoit, Jericho & Maven Vs HHH, Batista, Edge & Snitsky - Survivor Series 2004
> 
> Fuck me sideways, why have I never seen this since like, it aired? This is tremendous, definitely up there as one of the best SS Elimination matches. Story going into it is great, with Evolution trying to take over Raw because... they're Evolution, and the rest of the roster taking exception to it and finally taking them down a peg or two. Bischoff makes the match and announces that the winning team each get to run Raw for a week, and of course this means everyone, even on HHH's team, wants to win so they can make a match for the WHC between themselves and HHH. High stakes no doubt. Maven gets taken out backstage before the match by Snitsky, so he isn't around for a while. Plenty of great action with everyone else though, and they do a great job of constantly teasing dissension on the heel team because HHH knows they are all after him. Awesome spot where Edge tags in both HHH and Snitsky by accident, and HHH and Snitsky start arguing over who is the legal man. Batista steps between them to defend HHH, and while those two are staring each other down, Jericho locks HHH in the Walls of Jericho and HHH is screaming to get their attention :lmao. Maven shows covered in blood and takes it to Snitsky, busting him open too, which leads Snitsky to deck Maven with a chair and get himself DQ'd. Maven gets eliminated from that. Oh, bullshit that Benoit of all people is the first to go. He definitely should have stayed longer. Orton ends up the last man on his team with Edge and HHH the last two on their team. Makes sense since HHH/Orton is still a major story going on at the time. Oh, and fuck, can't forget FLAIR on the outside. He grabs Jericho's legs while he's attempting a Lionsault, so the ref sends him to the back. Flair is fucking livid, ranting and raging on the outside, and I love how he throws his jacket at sign guy who is loving the fact Flair has been ejected from the match. Final 2 are HHH and Orton of course. Thankfully there isn't long left so they aren't going to have a 20 minute match between themselves to end this thing lol. LOL at the sign "lol batista can't get over" in the crowd. About 2 weeks later Batista would be over as FUCK. Dumb as shit fan . Heard a lot about the Pedigree countered into an RKO spot that ends the match... was cool. Not spectacular or anything like I was expecting, but a great way to end the match. This is awesome and shit. ****1/4.


I knew I couldn't be the only fan out there who thought this match was quite awesome. SNITSKY'S CHAIR SHOT. :mark:

Another Snitsky plug being his obviously open blade-job without even trying to hide it. That was the best.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, I vaguely remember that elimination tag. Sounds awesome. Will have to search my old VHS tapes for that. I know I have it somewhere.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Edge's entrance is the fuxin greatest on that event too. For a random sidenote of perpetual marking that contains no relevance towards the match. But, really. It's legit. Metalingus was fresh + he had FIRE pyro. If only it lasted. (N)

Match concept rocked. Always loved the x factor of having the winning teams run RAW for a month. All four of those RAWs were pretty stellar too, iirc. Everyone remembers Trish vs Lita from the night Jericho hosted, of course.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Watching a lot of Misawa today. Shame he died but man, he sure did leave a pretty awesome catalog of work behind him. It's so odd to see good tag wrestling nowadays. Truly a lost art.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I watched that match a few months ago, I like it mainly for Orton getting a clean win over Triple H with how much of a fan I was of his at the time. Guys like Edge and Snitsky played their roles very well too. And the stipulation of each member of the team controlling RAW for a week was cool. And lol at Maven, the guy never really went anywhere did he? With his only career highlight being eliminating The Undertaker in the 2002 Royal Rumble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Coffey said:


> Watching a lot of Misawa today. Shame he died but man, he sure did leave a pretty awesome catalog of work behind him. It's so odd to see good tag wrestling nowadays. Truly a lost art.


Cram the Kobashi series. I did about four of their matches and nearly passed out from the epic-ness. I have to try again.

Good tag wrestling is out there still. You just have to look for it. Or watch Young Bucks matches.



Nostalgia said:


> I watched that match a few months ago, I like it mainly for Orton getting a clean win over Triple H with how much of a fan I was of his at the time. Guys like Edge and Snitsky played their roles very well too. And lol at Maven, the guy never really went anywhere did he? With his only career highlight being eliminating The Undertaker in the 2002 Royal Rumble.


Maven was MAD over all the time too. Always was let down the guy never got a sustained push. Grew to dig him while I was young and watching Tough Enough. The 2004 revival of his career till WWE cut the cord after he went heel was a tad disheartening. Could have at least been a credible midcarder. Now the guy is in a dark place. Shame.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I always thought the problem with Maven was that his gimmick was simply 'the Tough Enough winner'. That was basically it. I always liked him too. That elimination of Taker (and subsequent beatdown by the Deadman. The bit with the popcorn always makes me lol) was a great moment though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I couldn't stand Maven. Like, at all. Maybe it was his annoying music with that opening that sounded like The Godwinns when they had the Southern separationist gimmick.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How exactly did Maven turn heel? I've already forgotten even though I was watching 2004/05 a few months ago. All I remember is any momentum he had was KILLED at New Year's Revolution when Shelton squashed him twice in a row. Then he was a "user" of Simon Dean's product and after that just disappeared.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

The Young Bucks are fucking terrible. What are you talking about? They're pretty much everything that I despise about Independent wrestling. Ugh.

I've seen most of the AJPW tags. Especially any combination of Misawa/Kawada/Taue/Kobashi/Akiyami. Good stuff for sure. Occasionally thrown in Doc/Gordy/Ace/Hansen. There's way too much stuff to get through in any short amount of time but it kills downtime during long shifts & if you have to get up you don't miss *that* much (or just rewind). I like the Puro style more, with the slow build to the big finishes & not knowing when the match will actually end.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Maven is just another example that winning Tough Enough means you won't make it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MoveMent said:


> Maven is just another example that winning Tough Enough means you won't make it.


Bingo. Out of interest, who has been the most successful Tough Enough contestant? John Morrison? I'm finding it hard to recall who was on there. I guess you could say Josh Matthews. :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Bingo. Out of interest, who has been the most successful Tough Enough contestant? John Morrison? I'm finding it hard to recall who was on there. I guess you could say Josh Matthews. :lol


Miz, no?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Coffey said:


> The Young Bucks are fucking terrible. What are you talking about? They're pretty much everything that I despise about Independent wrestling. Ugh.


Uh, oh...




Coffey said:


> I've seen most of the AJPW tags. Especially any combination of Misawa/Kawada/Taue/Kobashi/Akiyami. Good stuff for sure. Occasionally thrown in Doc/Gordy/Ace/Hansen. There's way too much stuff to get through in any short amount of time but it kills downtime during long shifts & if you have to get up you don't miss *that* much (or just rewind). I like the Puro style more, with the slow build to the big finishes & not knowing when the match will actually end.


AJPW has just busted out a legit tag MOTYC (Omori & Soya vs. Akiyama & Shiozaki). Old school power struggle inside the ring.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Miz was on there? Jeez I don't even recall him being there. What season?


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Bingo. Out of interest, who has been the most successful Tough Enough contestant? John Morrison? I'm finding it hard to recall who was on there. I guess you could say Josh Matthews. :lol


Yeah, Matthews is still there at least. Morrison had a run. Nidia had a run, which was sort of fun, with Jamie Noble. Not too many notables from there, honestly. 

Ryback was on Tough Enough though, so probably him.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> Maven is just another example that winning Tough Enough means you won't make it.


what about :miz .... He came to play! 

But yeah tough enough has amounted to horse dick


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Coffey said:


> Yeah, Matthews is still there at least. Morrison had a run. Nidia had a run, which was sort of fun, with Jamie Noble. Not too many notables from there, honestly.
> 
> Ryback was on Tough Enough though, so probably him.


I remember really liking that Jamie Noble/Nidia 'white trash' gimmick. It was a whole lot of fun.

Don't recall Ryback being on there either.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Miz was on there? Jeez I don't even recall him being there. What season?


2004. Boogeyman was there but got rejected because he lied about his age (yet still made it to the roster) and so was Ryan Reeves A.K.A. Ryback. The winner Daniel Puder was gone in an instant after the Royal Rumble.

Other than Morrison, all the winners have been flops including that Andy guy from 2011.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Coffey said:


> The Young Bucks are fucking terrible. What are you talking about? They're pretty much everything that I despise about Independent wrestling. Ugh.
> 
> I've seen most of the AJPW tags. Especially any combination of Misawa/Kawada/Taue/Kobashi/Akiyami. Good stuff for sure. Occasionally thrown in Doc/Gordy/Ace/Hansen. There's way too much stuff to get through in any short amount of time but it kills downtime during long shifts & if you have to get up you don't miss *that* much (or just rewind). I like the Puro style more, with the slow build to the big finishes & not knowing when the match will actually end.


Great matches and strong use of tag team psychology? Huh. Thought those were good qualities to have. They're the best damn tag team in the world. Without a doubt. That's what I'm taking about.

I love the Puro style too. It won't deny any work seen by Bucks in any capacity for me. Especially when you take in the different styles worked. Preference is preference though. Not that I'll claim preferring Puro over modern day indie is a mistake. Not in the slightest. I just differ on a HUGE scope the opinion about Bucks.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I remember really liking that Jamie Noble/Nidia 'white trash' gimmick. It was a whole lot of fun.
> 
> Don't recall Ryback being on there either.


"My Nidia is pure class! Look Nidia, runnin' water!" :lol

Ryback was on Season 4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Has anyone ever seen Goldberg/Henry for the World Heavyweight Title in 03? Didn't even knew these two ever had a match with each other.

Also, great to know there are Team HHH/Team Orton marks in this place. That match is :mark: Loved Maven getting DRILLED by Snitsky with the chair, and the Pedigree/RKO reversal in the end is awesome too. Just a terrific match all round.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Has anyone ever seen Goldberg/Henry for the World Heavyweight Title in 03? Didn't even knew these two ever had a match with each other.


Havnt seen it myself, but have some info:

Goldberg v. Mark Henry (Shawn Michaels comes out to help Goldberg and gets speared! RAW 10/6/03)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Also, great to know there are Team HHH/Team Orton marks in this place. That match is :mark: Loved Maven getting DRILLED by Snitsky with the chair, and the Pedigree/RKO reversal in the end is awesome too. Just a terrific match all round.


Yeah I'm a big fan of that match too. The stipulation was strange but led to some great TV, and like you said that Pedigree into RKO ending was awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stipulation added so much fun to the match. b/c it was outside of the box. Made the Elimination match much more than "bad guys vs good guys". WWE needed a concept behind match to follow the emotion of 2003's Team Austin vs Team Bischoff classic. Damn near succeeded in topping it.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

The Miz. 

The problem with Tough Enough was the winner wasn't built up with credibility, you had guys like Bob Holly shitting on them and while Bob is a veteran on TV he was a lower card, the only guys who should have been shown talking down to them were trainers and Big Stars like Rock, Austin, Triple H etc. 

so basically they've been made to look like a geek, always come out like their a 5 year old with too much sugar and expected people to take them seriously. 

I really like the 'Tough Enough' concept and WWE have failed to capitlize on how much of a star making process that is, just look at how Ultimate Fighter does it, the last one had real good setup barring the challenges and the contestants, the trainers were really good but the talent was horrible. 

they need to change the focus and instead play it off as the best talent from the indies looking to make it in WWE, no teaching the basics just pairing them up for great matches with eliminations at the end by Austin's segment (which was awesome) and give each of them a story.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, 2001-2005 had some dope SS team matches. Team WWF/Team Alliance, Team Austin/Team Bischoff, Team HHH/Team Orton and Team Raw/Team SD were all classics. Team Angle/Team Lesnar and Team Angle/Team Eddie were good too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd put the 04 tag above that 03 one. I'm not too high on the 03 one. It's great and all, but I don't think HBK's performance is as amazing as people make it out to be. I was somewhat disappointed when I finally got around to re-watching it when I did the top 100 WWF/E matches poll. I'd put the 04 Raw, WWF Vs Alliance, that massive tag team from... 89? or something ahead of the 03 match.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Did Miz actually win Tough Enough?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

My GOAT SS match will always be Team WWF vs Team Alliance I think. I marked out hard during that match (hey, I was only 9). Like ATF said, 01-05 had some superb traditional SS matches. A real shame those have basically died now. There's no drama in them anymore.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I must watch Team WWF vs Team Alliance again. Last watch I didn't care much for it except for Jericho's heel turn.

Team Austin vs Team Bischoff holds up and will always hold up for me. Not solely by Michaels work, yet by an entire collective effort. All of it meant something. From the first elimination down to the last. A wonderful match that captured the intended big nature of those matches very well, imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My favorite Survivor Series match is between Austin vs Bischoff and Smackdown vs Raw. Both are equal on star power but the former has more storytelling with Austin's job on the line and HBK's underdog performance. Funny how in both cases, the last two men are Orton and HBK.

Also like the 2004 Orton/HHH one but not as much as the other two. 



MoveMent said:


> Did Miz actually win Tough Enough?


No, he was eliminated in one of the final rounds. Daniel Puder won that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kinda wish they'd kept Orton's "sole survivor" streak going... instead of absolutely shitting on him and his entire team in 2006...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Kinda wish they'd kept Orton's "sole survivor" streak going... instead of absolutely shitting on him and his entire team in 2006...


Wasn't that 5-0? Talk about coming back down to earth after three consecutive sole survivor victories.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series 2006.

What the hell happened on that event? All the Elimination matches stunk - the referred one being a full blown squash.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The whole event stunk. That was probably the beginning of SS going downhill and basically dropping out of the 'big 4'.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Kinda wish they'd kept Orton's "sole survivor" streak going... instead of absolutely shitting on him and his entire team in 2006...


Triple H had a knack for ruining things back then.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Has anyone ever seen Goldberg/Henry for the World Heavyweight Title in 03? Didn't even knew these two ever had a match with each other.


*Goldberg vs Mark Henry:*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcupzq_goldberg-vs-mark-henry_sport?search_algo=2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MoveMent said:


> Triple H had a knack for ruining things back then.


Yes... "back then" :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All Survivor Series '06 had was a good Taker vs Kennedy match & a solid Benoit/Chavo match. Both of which don't seem to be universally favored opinions either. So take that for what it is worth. 2007 was a better effort on WWE's part, despite feeling a drop of importance as the latter years would roll on.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2007 was damn good. Team HHH/Team Umaga was good, undercard was decent, double Main Event was amazing. 2007 was a great year for the Big 4, as Royal Rumble was awesome (CENA/UMAGA AND '07 ROYAL RUMBLE MATCH :mark and WM 23 was great too. Only SummerSlam kinda stunk, and even that had a very good Main Event.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Summerslam featured the return of THE GAME so I was a fan.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Survivor Series 07 is actually a pretty underrated event. I need to watch that again to be fair, particularly with the Orton/HBK talk from that event recently.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't like Undertaker vs Batista Hell in a Cell. Boring.

SummerSlam 2007 is a near train-wreck of a show. It all went downhill following the MOTN Finlay vs Kane.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Survivor Series 07 is actually a pretty underrated event. I need to watch that again to be fair, particularly with the Orton/HBK talk from that event recently.


Orton/HBK is the bee's knees :agree:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TEAM RAW VS TEAM SMACKDOWN.

ORTON GOING HAM + MY FAVORITE UNDERTAKER RETURN.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Urgh, SummerSlam 2007. What a shite event, both on paper and for real. Don't even remember anything about Kane/Finlay. Haven't watched the show since it aired, since like, there is no reason to .

Well, just bought all the 2006 PPV's I needed for my collection. Turns out I don't own any of the Raw ones, so I needed them all :lmao. Got them all brand new and sealed for £12. NYR, Backlash, Vengeance, UF and Cyber Sunday (ok not just Raw but I forgot this even existed lol). Wait, shit, still need One Night Stand 06 .

EDIT: Got that new and sealed for £2. Sorted.

EDIT 2: Huh, seems its the version with that original ECW PPV as a bonus too. Bargain.

EDIT 3: Ooo, also got The Best Of Raw & SmackDown Volume 2: Raw's Most Memorable Matches DVD with the Raw PPV's included in that £12. Has Hardy/Undertaker ladder, HHH/Flair WHC match, Jericho/HBK WM rematch (which is awesome), HBK/Shelton and HHH/Kane title Vs mask. Got it pretty much for Jericho/HBK and the ladder match .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> EDIT 3: Ooo, also got The Best Of Raw & SmackDown Volume 2: Raw's Most Memorable Matches DVD with the Raw PPV's included in that £12. Has Hardy/Undertaker ladder, HHH/Flair WHC match, Jericho/HBK WM rematch (which is awesome), HBK/Shelton and HHH/Kane title Vs mask. Got it pretty much for Jericho/HBK and the ladder match .


Picked that myself a few weeks ago for the same reason lol(the ladder match and HBK/Jericho, although probably for Kane/HHH too ) £1.00 in CEX, great CON - sorted


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

About to watch The Rock vs Stone Cold in A STEEL CAGE


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Coffey said:


> The Young Bucks are fucking terrible. What are you talking about? They're pretty much everything that I despise about Independent wrestling. Ugh.


:cuss:

I'm not sure if you just haven't seen enough of them or you've only seen certain matches they had in TNA or what, but those motherfuckers are LEGIT one of, if not THE best tag team in the world. Consistenly great for 4-5 years now and always improving their game and adapting to the team they're facing. I can see someone being annoyed by the amount of superkicks they use but that's about it. Workrate all the way with those guys.



HayleySabin said:


> SummerSlam 2007 is a near train-wreck of a show. It all went downhill following the *MOTN Finlay vs Kane*.


:yes

-----------------------

Thinkin about watchin some WarGames tonight, possibly '91 and '92. Who's with me!?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My local CEX never has any good wrestling DVD's in, and if they do its cheaper to get them brand new online .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Undertaker vs Big Show - ECW 18/7/2006*
- So far, ECW has been good with the main events. Enjoyed RVD/Angle vs Orton/Edge, Angle/RVD, Show/Flair and now this. The shows have been boring barring most of the main events and this is another of the good ones. Typical Taker/Show greatness with them brawling in the first couple of minutes then Show starts his control segment over Taker followed by an excellent comeback by Taker after the Superplex as he sits up. Khali obviously ruins it in the end but it was good while it lasted. Now I can also enjoy Smackdown as Undertaker and Batista have added some star power after a boring June. ★★★¼

Orton's Survivor Series matches:
Team Austin vs Bischoff - ★★★★
Team Orton vs Team HHH - ★★★¾
Team Smackdown vs Team Raw - ★★★★
Team DX vs Team Rated RKO - ½★
Orton vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★¼
Team Orton vs Team Batista - N/A
Team Orton vs Team Kofi - N/A
Orton vs Barrett - ★½
Team Orton vs Team Barrett - ★★½
Team Foley vs Team Ziggler - ★★

That 2006 match is a complete joke and ruined everything that had been built for 3 years.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Show had an great run as ECW champ then, had some good matches with Flair and Batista etc..


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MoveMent said:


> About to watch The Rock vs Stone Cold in A STEEL CAGE


The night after WM17 and the formation of THE TWO MAN POWER TRIP?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> The night after WM17 and the formation of THE TWO MAN POWER TRIP?


YES.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Although the match is solid, all the awesome shit happens after HHH arrives. J.R GOATs it on commentary for the second night in a row with something along the lines of "I don't believe it. Austin, Triple H and the boss on one vile, stinking, nasty page." Sweet moment.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

2 Man Power Trip beatdown of Hardys & Lita = GOAT segment.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Fuck yes.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Anyone else feel survivor series 2005 is very underrated? I loved the HHH and Flair blood bath, team raw and team SmackDown was a classic with the epic Taker return at the end and not to forget a great opener by Booker T and Benoit in their series. Cena and Angle from that night was okay too. 

What do people think of Armageddon 06? I feel it's a very underrated, forgotten about PPV that was rather good. there's the four team TLC, Undertaker and Kennedy in a Last Ride march plus Batista and Booker T teaming up which at the time everyone thought it was a big thing cause it was a first.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Even though Austin still had a GOAT year, The Power Trip looked on pace to be the greatest thing EVER in its short run.



That Guy said:


> Anyone else feel survivor series 2005 is very underrated? I loved the HHH and Flair blood bath, team raw and team SmackDown was a classic with the epic Taker return at the end and not to forget a great opener by Booker T and Benoit in their series. Cena and Angle from that night was okay too.
> 
> What do people think of Armageddon 06? I feel it's a very underrated, forgotten about PPV that was rather good. there's the four team TLC, Undertaker and Kennedy in a Last Ride march plus Batista and Booker T teaming up which at the time everyone thought it was a big thing cause it was a first.


I loved Survivor Series '05, didn't care for the Cena/Angle match but I watch the Team RAW vs. Team Smackdown match pretty often. One of my favorite storylines.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I highly enjoyed Flair/HHH


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Man I loved their promos leading not the feud too on Raw. They had epic chemistry and build


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That Guy said:


> Anyone else feel survivor series 2005 is very underrated? I loved the HHH and Flair blood bath, team raw and team SmackDown was a classic with the epic Taker return at the end and not to forget a great opener by Booker T and Benoit in their series. Cena and Angle from that night was okay too.
> 
> What do people think of Armageddon 06? I feel it's a very underrated, forgotten about PPV that was rather good. there's the four team TLC, Undertaker and Kennedy in a Last Ride march plus Batista and Booker T teaming up which at the time everyone thought it was a big thing cause it was a first.


I agree that SS 2005 is underrated. Some great matches from that night, though I'm not a fan of the whole Cena/Angle feud. As for Armageddon 06, the TLC match you mentioned stands out big time. Totally mark for that match. Rest of the show is solid but nothing spectacular imo.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

I meant to say Batista and Cena teaming up, my bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Armageddon 06 is great. Inferno match is about as good as a match where the ring is surrounded by FIRE can be, the 4 way LADDER match (Not TLC lol) is fucking great, Undertaker/Kennedy is good though the worst of their series, Helms/Yang is another good match from Helms' lengthy CW run... just a shame the main event really didn't deliver and Chavo had a match.

Survivor Series 05... outside of the Raw Vs SD match, don't think there is much to the show. HHH/Flair is good too though, but I MUCH prefer their cage match. Think it's worlds better. Everything else I seem to remember being pretty garbage.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Armageddon 06 is great. Inferno match is about as good as a match where the ring is surrounded by FIRE can be, the *4 way LADDER match (Not TLC lol)* is fucking great, Undertaker/Kennedy is good though the worst of their series, Helms/Yang is another good match from Helms' lengthy CW run... just a shame the main event really didn't deliver and Chavo had a match.
> 
> Survivor Series 05... outside of the Raw Vs SD match, don't think there is much to the show. HHH/Flair is good too though, but I MUCH prefer their cage match. Think it's worlds better. Everything else I seem to remember being pretty garbage.


Damn, I realized my mistake, went back to change it and beaten to it haha.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some thoughts on HBK/Bret Iron Man Match? I have it at ***1/2, it was just too long for my liking.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Guy said:


> Man I loved their promos leading not the feud too on Raw. They had epic chemistry and build


Talking about Flair/HHH? If so, I have to promote Flair's return promo two weeks after HHH assaulted him on Raw Homecoming. That promo was just EPIC and what sold me on Flair as one of the greatest mic workers ever. (one of the first of his I saw) Kept hearing about how great his mic skills are and then when I saw that, it totally lived up to the hype.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Survivor Series '06 had all the potential in the world to be really great, but it turned out to be a complete let-down all the way. Only enjoyed two things from it, the solid United States Championship bout with Benoit vs. Chavo, as well as the decent First Blood contest with Undertaker vs. Kennedy. Other than that, it's a total train wreck that needed a lot of fixing. All the Elimination matches stunk that night, all three of them. Team Legends vs. Team Spirit Squad, Team Cena vs. Team Show, and Team DX vs. Team Rated RKO. Especially the latter, nothing more than a full squash burial.

I'm with *That Guy* on Survivor Series '05. Very fun show, very underrated too. Benoit vs. Booker T? Wonderful opener. Triple H vs. Flair in a Last Man Standing? Enjoyed the hell out of it. Cena vs. Angle? Didn't mind it. Undertaker's return? Epic all around. But man oh man, Team Raw vs. Team SmackDown has to be my second favorite Traditional Survivor Series Elimination match ever, right behind Team WWF vs. The Alliance. Brilliant build leading up to the brilliant match, just brilliant. Miss the days when the brand-split actually meant something...


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> *Maven was MAD over all the time too.* Always was let down the guy never got a sustained push. Grew to dig him while I was young and watching Tough Enough. The 2004 revival of his career till WWE cut the cord after he went heel was a tad disheartening. Could have at least been a credible midcarder. Now the guy is in a dark place. Shame.


I don't remember him being. :| Was he over in that 2004 Survivor Series match? Might have to watch it again.



Choke2Death said:


> 2004. Boogeyman was there but got rejected because he lied about his age (yet still made it to the roster) and so was Ryan Reeves A.K.A. Ryback. The winner Daniel Puder was gone in an instant after the Royal Rumble.
> 
> Other than Morrison, all the winners have been flops including that Andy guy from 2011.


I love when Puder came in the Rumble and got destroyed by Eddie, Benoit and Hardcore Holly with chops. :lol 



HayleySabin said:


> Team Austin vs Team Bischoff holds up and will always hold up for me. Not solely by Michaels work, yet by an entire collective effort. All of it meant something. From the first elimination down to the last. A wonderful match that captured the intended big nature of those matches very well, imo.


(Y)

Probably my most favorite traditional Survivor Series elimination match.



Big Z said:


> Kinda wish they'd kept Orton's "sole survivor" streak going... instead of absolutely shitting on him and his entire team in 2006...


Agreed. Speaking of undefeated streaks, why is Miz undefeated at Mania? And he'll likely remain undefeated if he beats Barrett at Mania (he more than likely will).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Some thoughts on HBK/Bret Iron Man Match? I have it at ***1/2, it was just too long for my liking.


oh man, opening up a big can of worms there.



Choke2Death said:


> Talking about Flair/HHH? If so, I have to promote Flair's return promo two weeks after HHH assaulted him on Raw Homecoming. That promo was just EPIC and what sold me on Flair as one of the greatest mic workers ever. (one of the first of his I saw) Kept hearing about how great his mic skills are and then when I saw that, it totally lived up to the hype.


Yeah, I'd really like to go back and watch that feud unfold again. I remember Raw Homecoming w/HHH's return and tag where he turns on Flair, and I remember the 2 PPV matches, but not much in between.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Some thoughts on HBK/Bret Iron Man Match? I have it at ***1/2, it was just too long for my liking.


Shite match, gave it ** when I watched it recently for a review on my blog.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Talking about Flair/HHH? If so, I have to promote Flair's return promo two weeks after HHH assaulted him on Raw Homecoming. That promo was just EPIC and what sold me on Flair as one of the greatest mic workers ever. (one of the first of his I saw) Kept hearing about how great his mic skills are and then when I saw that, it totally lived up to the hype.


Yeah great promo. HHH also puts down a great one about Flair being old and taking him out back and 'putting him out of his misery'. Awesome feud and a good way to finally put to bed the whole Evolution saga.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I remember an Old Yeller promo being LEGIT.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I remember an Old Yeller promo being LEGIT.


^ Yeah that's the one I meant. Top stuff from GAME.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

While I liked the Flair/HHH feud... it never made sense to me lol. HHH took time off after Vengeance HIAC. In the mean time, Flair starts to feel more like the Flair of old again, piling up wins and I think he won the IC title around this time too? And HHH suddenly decided that it was time for Flair to be put down despite being better than he has in years?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I recall HHH saying something about Flair being too good for the IC title and him celebrating like he'd won 'the big one' was a slap in the face of his old, illustrious career. I thought it was ok.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wasn't HHH's justification that Flair had settled for mediocrity (IC title)?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

That was the most creative way HHH has ever buried the IC title


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Settled for the IC title? Yet won "just" the tag titles while in Evolution?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Kicking Barrett in the balls for no apparent reason is a close 2nd.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

That HHH V Flair feud was ridiculous.

HHH wanted to kill Flair because he won the IC title.

What the fuck?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH seemed pretty fond of the European Title for some reason


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH kicking Barrett in the balls might be the best thing HHH has ever done.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yeah great promo. HHH also puts down a great one about Flair being old and taking him out back and 'putting him out of his misery'. Awesome feud and a good way to finally put to bed the whole Evolution saga.


Just rewatched it as I have all of 2005 still in the computer and wow, it was still awesome. FLAIR's yelling never gets old and the passion in his delivery is something else. Punching his own forehead to open up that wound and wiping the blood all over his face made him look even more intense and the icing on the cake was chasing HHH with a baseball bat.

Here's the transcript for it. Sucks that it's taken down from youtube.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

16 time world champ winning a midcard title is a step down. Tag titles are as well, but Flair was a heel then. HHH was probably angry that Flair had turned face in the process of winning the IC title. Idk, nitpicking imo.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Great feuds sometimes have questionable beginnings. Like the Rey/Eddie feud about Eddie not being able to beat him even though he pinned him clean a year earlier.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not to mention DOMINIC


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL When trying to make a feud personal goes too far.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Haha, Dominic being involved in that feud was just ridiculous.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

They could of found a much better way to advance that feud, or even of said Eddie was lying about Dominic (Since you know, that's his thing) but I'm asking for too much at that point.

Eddie's heel turn was still quality.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Macho Madness doc on Netflix is in three separate pieces totaling at least six hours. Saving that for the weekend.

Is Orton's Evolution of a Predator worth a view? I don't know what to watch. I might go with Jericho's Breaking The Code, Hart & Soul or the World Class one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Macho Madness doc on Netflix is in three separate pieces totaling at least six hours. Saving that for the weekend.
> 
> *Is Orton's Evolution of a Predator worth a view*? I don't know what to watch. I might go with Jericho's Breaking The Code, Hart & Soul or the World Class one.


YES!


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Oh man Eddie was all sorts of awesome in the Rey feud, I can't even express in words how epic he was reading bedtime stories to Dominic. 

still sad that he passed away, just imagine of he was around for Raw v Sd at ss05... He even qualified for it. To face Shawn at wm22? taker streak at some point as well ... Another title run or seven


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

SpookshowTony said:


> Macho Madness doc on Netflix is in three separate pieces totaling at least six hours. Saving that for the weekend.
> 
> Is Orton's Evolution of a Predator worth a view? I don't know what to watch. I might go with Jericho's Breaking The Code, Hart & Soul or the World Class one.


I haven't seen the Orton one, but Jericho's is very good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton's doc is mostly shitty. Done in a similar way to the john cena experience, but at least Orton's had more wrestling. Still crap though lol.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I know C2D responded but he LOVES Orton. No offense, C2D. rton2

@Alien
I was heavily leaning towards the Jericho one. Might check that one out.


@Big Z
Is it disjointed, boring or...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Definetly Jericho - awesome :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

SpookshowTony said:


> I know C2D responded but he LOVES Orton. No offense, C2D. rton2
> 
> @Alien
> I was heavily leaning towards the Jericho one. Might check that one out.
> ...


Haven't seen the Orton one. But the Jericho one is great. The Hart & Soul Doc is okay, but it's really more of a focus on the Hart family, Stu, Brets brothers and sisters, etc. So, it's alittle bit all over the place, but still worth a watch, at least. Also has the Bulldog/Owen 3/3/97 RAW match for the European Title. Great match. Pretty sure it also has Bret & Owen vs Steiners on RAW which was also fantastic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Some thoughts on HBK/Bret Iron Man Match? I have it at ***1/2, it was just too long for my liking.


The worst.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> :cuss:
> 
> I'm not sure if you just haven't seen enough of them or you've only seen certain matches they had in TNA or what, but those motherfuckers are LEGIT one of, if not THE best tag team in the world. Consistenly great for 4-5 years now and always improving their game and adapting to the team they're facing. I can see someone being annoyed by the amount of superkicks they use but that's about it. Workrate all the way with those guys.
> 
> ...


YES x100 on both accounts.

Hmm. I can always make room for WarGames in the middle of the WWE Superstars/Daniel Bryan 2011 project I've got going on atm. Speaking of Superstars in 2011, McIntyre vs Master 5/12 is nearly, if not just, as great as their original match from 2010. Unbelivable work from both. It's funny. The string of solid matches from the program has been high. Solid matches aplenty, then out of nowhere comes McIntyre vs Masters and boosh. It make the rest almost look like useless muck in comparison. The work put forth in a sub-ten minute format by the two mops the floor with so much. Kidd vs Barreta series earned more praise, yet both of their matches so far haven't been anything past "above average". So yeah. Watch this match. It'll show you why WWE were knuckleheads to depush McIntyre & release Masters. The latter had a tremendous babyface performance here.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Anyone seen Magnum/Nikita 2/3 falls match from sometime in September 1986? Gave the first fall a watch, and I completely disliked it. Two men who hate each other, go into a chain wrestling sequence, with very little aggression and intensity, they aren't mixing it up with anything. Followed with their 2nd fall, which was a quick slugfest. Didn't give their final fall a watch, just felt like a chore.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton's doc is really boring, guys. Hardly scratches the surface of his actual WRESTLING career and doesn't go very in depth with anything honestly. There's a story about him leaving the Marines that's interesting but that's really about it. Jericho's on the other hand is great. Super entertaining. ARMBAR!

I miss Masters. 

Hey *Desecrated*, thoughts on Luger vs. Jesse Barr from BOTB II?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Orton's documentary isn't boring, just insubstantial. You'd like it if you're a fan of his. 

And am I the only one that liked HBK/Bret


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> Orton's documentary isn't boring, just insubstantial. You'd like it if you're a fan of his.
> 
> And am I the only one that liked HBK/Bret


I'm a definite Orton fan and was quite disappointed and honestly wanted to turn it off half the time. Opinions are subjective of course.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey *Desecrated*, thoughts on Luger vs. Jesse Barr from BOTB II?


Thought it was 'alright', I did zone out slightly several times, allowing my concentration to be ready for the main event. Checking the pad, gave it a **1/4. Saw very little praise for the match while surfing the 'net, but I thought it was a bit better than they let on.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> I know C2D responded but he LOVES Orton. No offense, C2D. rton2


Heh, sure. But it's still worth a watch IMO. An interesting story and I like them. Prefer it to the generic "I want to be a wrestler from when I grew up and now I'm living my dream". Plus the matches are mostly good even if it sorely misses Orton/Benoit from SummerSlam.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Thought it was 'alright', I did zone out slightly several times, allowing my concentration to be ready for the main event. Checking the pad, gave it a **1/4. Saw very little praise for the match while surfing the 'net, but I thought it was a bit better than they let on.


Yeah, looks like I'm on my own then. Thought it was a great, old school slower paced match with a nice dusty finish that kept heat on Luger. Good control segment for Luger too. *** 1/2


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Heh, sure. But it's still worth a watch IMO. An interesting story and I like them. Prefer it to the generic "I want to be a wrestler from when I grew up and now I'm living my dream". Plus the matches are mostly good even if it sorely misses Orton/Benoit from SummerSlam.



I might check it out after I'm done with Jericho's for the hell of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Huge DVD sale over at WWEShop: http://shop.wwe.com/DVD-Sale/dvdsale,default,sc.html

Definitely gonna be making an order, but here's a question. Anything stick out on the *Best of RAW 2010 Blu Ray*? Here's the listing: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-raw-best-of-2010-dvd-bluray-matches/8378/


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Huge DVD sale over at WWEShop: http://shop.wwe.com/DVD-Sale/dvdsale,default,sc.html



Interesting. Shame my money has to go elsewhere.


----------



## Strongside (Dec 7, 2012)

Does anyone know the theme Mike Tyson comes out in this video? It was on the Best of RAW 1993-2008.

http://www.wwe.com/videos/mike-tyson-and-stone-cold-steve-austin-meet-raw-january-19-1998-26010125


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, looks like I'm on my own then. Thought it was a great, old school slower paced match with a nice dusty finish that kept heat on Luger. Good control segment for Luger too. *** 1/2


I'm needing to see this match now. Sounds like it might capitalize on simplistic southern formula goodness.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Just watched the two Regal/Ambrose matches, and holy shit :mark:

Regal/Ambrose I- ****1/4
Regal/Ambrose II- ****1/2 and no doubt could of been the full five with a few more minutes and a proper finish, but still holy shit

And as a bonus, Bryan/Regal from Superstars 2011 is also ****

REGAL~


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm needing to see this match now. Sounds like it might capitalize on simplistic southern formula goodness.


It's an underappreciated match for sure. Before Luger turned to... Luger.  35 minutes or so into this (after THE WHITE NINJA :mark:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNI1Gi4AgE

Seen anything on the RAW 2010 set? Idk if I should fork $10 over for the blu ray or not.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> Just watched the two Regal/Ambrose matches, and holy shit :mark:
> 
> Regal/Ambrose I- ****1/4
> Regal/Ambrose II- ****1/2 and no doubt could of been the full five with a few more minutes and a proper finish, but still holy shit
> ...


REGAL.

No lie. Excellent set of matches between the two. Regal's demolishing of Ambrose is a phenomenal sight.

Watch Regal vs Danielson last night. Near four stars for me. Irrelevant as it is another must-see match in its own right too. Great stuff.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's an underappreciated match for sure. Before Luger turned to... Luger.  35 minutes or so into this (after THE WHITE NINJA :mark:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNI1Gi4AgE
> 
> Seen anything on the RAW 2010 set? Idk if I should fork $10 over for the blu ray or not.


Luger in the '80s was kind of a boss. At least, I enjoyed him. vs Pillman from Halloween Havoc '89 imo.

I looked up what made the set and I must say, it looks quite underwhelming for me. I'm a 2010 mark but it seems to severely lack Nexus goodness. Which was the staple of the year for me. Not to mention (and I agreed with the DVD review I read on it) it doesn't have Miz vs King TLC match on it. Which is highly unusual & quite dumb, tbhayley. Blu-Ray does have Undertaker vs Swagger as an extra. That's good stuff to own. Some other matches are some nice additions. All in all it looks, like I said, underwhelming more than bad. I suppose for 10 bucks it's kind of a steal for 4 discs. Only I would have wanted it to include more content. Where is Cena & Bourne vs Sheamus & Edge?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Luger in the '80s was kind of a boss. At least, I enjoyed him. vs Pillman from Halloween Havoc '89 imo.
> 
> I looked up what made the set and I must say, it looks quite underwhelming for me. I'm a 2010 mark but it seems to severely lack Nexus goodness. Which was the staple of the year for me. Not to mention (and I agreed with the DVD review I read on it) it doesn't have Miz vs King TLC match on it. Which is highly unusual & quite dumb, tbhayley. Blu-Ray does have Undertaker vs Swagger as an extra. That's good stuff to own. Some other matches are some nice additions. All in all it looks, like I said, underwhelming more than bad. I suppose for 10 bucks it's kind of a steal for 4 discs. Only I would have wanted it to include more content. *Where is Cena & Bourne vs Sheamus & Edge*?


I literally just watched Luger/Pillman two nights ago. Total Pillman show in the first half until Liger WAKES THE FUCK UP and decides to take his head off with clotheslines. Great match with an exciting finishing stretch. *** 1/2

It's on there! Disc 2, May 31st. Ah fuck it, I'll probably buy it to add to the collection. Gotta be at least a gem or two on there that'll be nice to own in HD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I literally just watched Luger/Pillman two nights ago. Total Pillman show in the first half until Liger WAKES THE FUCK UP and decides to take his head off with clotheslines. Great match with an exciting finishing stretch. *** 1/2
> 
> It's on there! Disc 2, May 31st. Ah fuck it, I'll probably buy it to add to the collection. Gotta be at least a gem or two on there that'll be nice to own in HD.


I was about to put over the finishing stretch myself. Strong stuff - ***3/4 on my end.

OH CRAP IT IS. Ok, now it's looking a tiny bit better in the buy department.  _(could have added gems like the 8 man MITB participant tag from July, Orton/Bourne vs Edge/Jericho, Orton vs Morrison vs Dibiase Jr, Miz vs Morrison vs Ryder vs Truth over Miz vs Truth, etc.)_


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Undertaker vs Ric Flair - Wrestlemania 18 - ****1/4

Always love this, epic top rope superplex by Taker. Sure Taker said something like "this piece of shit" when he went for the 'old skool Taker' rope walk move, before being cut off and Flair flipped him over.

Oh, Arn Anderson spinebuster :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just watched Kanyon vs. Awesome @ Slamboree 2000

WHO BETTER THAN MORTIS KANYON?

Dude should have been so much more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^that match kind of OWNS. Kanyon landing on his neck via the powerbomb should have been the moment where the career killer gimmick of Awesome began. Blew away the toss off the cage at the end of the show. By a country mile.

 at both those lads being gone via unfortunate circumstances. I loved em.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Kanyon :sad:

@zep
That was a pretty good brawl between the two. Double A spinebuster (Y)

Legit surprised that Chyna (through past footage) makes an appearance. You'd think they would erase her completely from history. I guess Jericho was able to persuade the company to allow footage of her.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Just finished Barr/Luger, the rewatch~! The match is better on the second viewing. For sure, the length on the original view did not help me, including how I felt it dropped off in certain points, for example, when they went from Luger controlling Barr, the (slick) counter from Barr, but straight into Luger throwing him around. Felt it cut up the match. Got to enjoy Barr's gutsy comeback attempts, but the fresher Luger just too much at certain points. 
Luger's thorough control and his offence were great for most periods of the match on this watch, where everything felt much more streamlined. Took two to tango, Barr's performance was great, everyone bought into him, and had the crowd rooting as they got further in. Played the underdog perfectly, including where, twice, I felt like he had it done on the armbreaker. Finish was a bit weird, don't think Luger benefitted from having it end that way, he dominated Barr for a long time. If I look at it like it was desperation, then I could buy it, but it undermined his complete control.

Would give it a *** this time around. Got to blame my impatience for not seeing the match in the same light the first go around.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Undertaker vs Triple H - Wrestlemania 27*
- Finally watched this almost two years after the show took place. And to be honest, it's not all that different from how I remember it. With the NHB stipulation, they get right down to business from the get go as they fight near the announce tables and even go through the "Cole Mine" minutes before Taker gets countered with a Spinebuster through the Spanish announce table. Then when they enter the ring, things really slow down and it takes only a few minutes before the match turns into a finisher fest. Taker hits the Chokeslam, Last Ride and Tombstone all successfully and HHH kicks out. HHH hits him with a chair numerous times as well as once in the head and yells "Stay down" as a call-back to the HBK match in WM26. After the three Pedigrees that Taker kicked out of, this was a nice bit of storytelling as Taker looked more vulnerable and weakened as HHH easily got him into the Tombstone and executed the move to perfection. I didn't buy into it but many did and when Taker kicks out, the arena erupts! Five more minutes but nothing special happens other than HHH trying to use the sledgehammer only to get trapped in the Hell's Gate and after a two minute struggle, he taps out and Taker's streak lives on. Not as good as some make it out to be and definitely not better than their HIAC match last year. It turns into too much of a finisher-fest and is a bit too slow without as much storytelling and emotion as End of an Era. ★★★★

And another question, who was the first to hit Taker with the Tombstone other than Kane? Did anyone do it before Orton did in 2005?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Just finished Barr/Luger, the rewatch~! The match is better on the second viewing. For sure, the length on the original view did not help me, including how I felt it dropped off in certain points, for example, when they went from Luger controlling Barr, the (slick) counter from Barr, but straight into Luger throwing him around. Felt it cut up the match. Got to enjoy Barr's gutsy comeback attempts, but the fresher Luger just too much at certain points.
> Luger's thorough control and his offence were great for most periods of the match on this watch, where everything felt much more streamlined. Took two to tango, Barr's performance was great, everyone bought into him, and had the crowd rooting as they got further in. Played the underdog perfectly, including where, twice, I felt like he had it done on the armbreaker. Finish was a bit weird, don't think Luger benefitted from having it end that way, he dominated Barr for a long time. If I look at it like it was desperation, then I could buy it, but it undermined his complete control.
> 
> Would give it a *** this time around. Got to blame my impatience for not seeing the match in the same light the first go around.


There ya go, came around on it a bit. Came outta nowhere when I was watching the show, that's for sure. Kudos to ya. (Y) Keep up those 80s reviews!



Choke2Death said:


> *Undertaker vs Triple H - Wrestlemania 27*
> - Finally watched this almost two years after the show took place. And to be honest, it's not all that different from how I remember it. With the NHB stipulation, they get right down to business from the get go as they fight near the announce tables and even go through the "Cole Mine" minutes before Taker gets countered with a Spinebuster through the Spanish announce table. Then when they enter the ring, things really slow down and it takes only a few minutes before the match turns into a finisher fest. Taker hits the Chokeslam, Last Ride and Tombstone all successfully and HHH kicks out. HHH hits him with a chair numerous times as well as once in the head and yells "Stay down" as a call-back to the HBK match in WM26. After the three Pedigrees that Taker kicked out of, this was a nice bit of storytelling as Taker looked more vulnerable and weakened as HHH easily got him into the Tombstone and executed the move to perfection. I didn't buy into it but many did and when Taker kicks out, the arena erupts! Five more minutes but nothing special happens other than HHH trying to use the sledgehammer only to get trapped in the Hell's Gate and after a two minute struggle, he taps out and Taker's streak lives on. Not as good as some make it out to be and definitely not better than their HIAC match last year. It turns into too much of a finisher-fest and is a bit too slow without as much storytelling and emotion as End of an Era. ★★★★


Agree on it to a certain extent. I wrote a RIDICULOUSLY long post on it a few months ago. I went *** 3/4 due to overly long finisher fest where everyone knew the match wasn't going to end and they layed there for several minutes. I absolutely loved the beginning and end though. That nearfall from Triple H's tombstone is absolutely incredible. Not sure if anything like that will ever be recreated. I legitimately thought the streak was over, and that feeling has NEVER came across me. Here's my long ass review:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-show-discussion-thread-454.html#post12375762


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Interesting topic - 

Which match suffered the greatest case of "second watch syndrome" from you? What I mean by that is which match's quality dipped the most the second time you watched it simply because it didn't stand the test of time, you were hyped at the time (say you were there live or watching it on PPV etc) or just because your tastes changed that much between the first and second viewing. The reason I ask this is because I think my answer is a match that C2D just discussed, Triple H vs. The Undertaker at Wrestlemania 27.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Angle from Royal Rumble 2003 hands down. Once considered a 5 star match by me in light of getting caught up of the hoopla. Only to realize it really is a good match at the end of the day and nothing more.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Interesting topic -
> 
> Which match suffered the greatest case of "second watch syndrome" from you? What I mean by that is which match's quality dipped the most the second time you watched it simply because it didn't stand the test of time, you were hyped at the time (say you were there live or watching it on PPV etc) or just because your tastes changed that much between the first and second viewing. The reason I ask this is because I think my answer is a match that C2D just discussed, Triple H vs. The Undertaker at Wrestlemania 27.


Without question, it has to be CM Punk vs John Cena from SummerSlam. First time I had it at ★★★★½ and thought it's as nearly good as MITB which I had at ★★★★★. Second time around for MITB dropped it to ★★★★½ but that's not a problem as the match still remained a classic. But the SummerSlam match.... I went down all the way to ★★¾ with it because I felt it's a dull rehash of their MITB classic without the atmosphere and excitement which is half of what made that particular match great.

Another one that I didn't experience live but changed opinions on from first to second watch is HBK vs HHH from Royal Rumble 04. First time I felt it's an epic ★★★★ match with all the bleeding and shit but second time around, I thought it's extremely forced with all the "epicness" and just not what I thought of it first time around.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Interesting topic -
> 
> Which match suffered the greatest case of "second watch syndrome" from you? What I mean by that is which match's quality dipped the most the second time you watched it simply because it didn't stand the test of time, you were hyped at the time (say you were there live or watching it on PPV etc) or just because your tastes changed that much between the first and second viewing. The reason I ask this is because I think my answer is a match that C2D just discussed, Triple H vs. The Undertaker at Wrestlemania 27.


Kurt Angle v Shane McMahon went from ''really, really great match'' to ''the absolute number one match I never want to see again''.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's definitely gotta be Taker/Trips from 27. I went from 'OMG, I think I'd give this 5 stars but I'll stick with **** 3/4 because it was AMAZING' to that current write up at *** 3/4.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

One for me, surprisingly, was Brock/Taker in the Cell. I adored this match, I had it up at ****3/4. But a rewatch a while later, and while I thought everything was great, it was 'just' that. I had put it in at ***3/4. It's due another go, but there was something I really didn't enjoy compared to the first time. Intangible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If this Evan Bourne vs Drew McIntyre match isn't good I'm going to be gobsmacked. See you back in 7 minutes to find out my expression of emotion.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> If this Evan Bourne vs Drew McIntyre match isn't good I'm going to be gobsmacked. See you back in 7 minutes to find out my expression of emotion.


that clothesline bump :mark: that finishing sequence :mark:


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

I don't know if anyone remembers the CM Punk v. Jericho match from Raw, late December in 20...09? Really great TV match, I believe it was in Canada, but on the second (and final) rewatch, it felt merely average. Maybe it was the great atmosphere and the fact that it was an above average Raw match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I exclaimed "OHHHHH" about three times during the match. Awesome stuff. Not gobsmacked. Only highly elated with the given content.

:mark:

Kidd vs Barreta III next up. This better be good. First match was meh & second was a more solid outing despite not being anything too overly special. Kidd has matched up much better with Yoshi Tatsu up to this point. Which surprised me b/c I forgot Tatsu can be a solid guy. Seeing him work the underwhelming series of matches vs Primo & crap series vs Ryder in 2010 made me blank on his apparent tools in the ring.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tatsu's best match was his extended squash with Danielson in Japan in 04 :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The vid you posted, eh? I glossed over it and forgot to head back towards it. I'll buy it tbhayley. It is Danielson. Interesting fact: Kidd vs Tatsu got to happen in NJPW circa 2004 when Kidd was doing his tour under the Stampede Kid guise. Crazy how that works out, isn't it?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

If anyone wants to throw out some matches for me to watch tonight feel free, preferably some quick TV matches from the 2000's, it would be awesome!


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

anyone got links for the Regal/Ambrose matches and the Rollins/Ambrose series?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do a Drew McIntyre set:

vs Christian ~ Smackdown 7/16/10
vs Christian ~ Smackdown 7/30/10
vs Christian ~ Smackdown 8/20/10
vs Chris Masters ~ Superstars 8/26/10
vs Christian ~ Smackdown 9/3/10
vs Chris Masters ~ Superstars 5/12/11
vs Evan Bourne ~ Superstars 5/19/11
vs Daniel Bryan ~ Superstars 8/25/11
vs Christian ~ Superstars 5/31/12


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> anyone got links for the Regal/Ambrose matches and the Rollins/Ambrose series?


Regal/Ambrose I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAi9zbVc_w

Regal/Ambrose II http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b-q0cAkboc

And I don't have Rollins/Ambrose at the ready but they can be found with a simple search on YouTube, hope this helped 

And * HaleySabin* I had no clue McIntyre/Christian had a 4th match from 2010 :mark: but I will definitely watch the vs Masters, vs Bourne and vs Bryan, AND DAT FOURTH MATCH!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> anyone got links for the Regal/Ambrose matches and the Rollins/Ambrose series?


_Rollins vs Ambrose I_





_Rollins vs Ambrose II_





_Rollins vs Ambrose III_





-----------

_Regal vs Ambrose I_





_Regal vs Ambrose II_


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What does everyone consider to be the best Ambrose/Rollins match in that set? I think I'd say #2, unless I'm mixing the matches up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The third for me. It played off the progression of the two previous matches in such a INSANELY glorious way. I was left in awe after I watched all three in a row. I'm a huge, huge Seth Rollins fan/mark too, yet I was still left in amazement by the work in the matches.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The 33 minute one, for me. Easiest to remember because it's the longest. Love that match, although all of them are pretty darn good.

Edit- or what Hayley said. ROLLINS. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Made my WWEShop order. Everytime I think I have ALL the dvds I need, I just go buy some more.  List:

*Born to Controversy: The Roddy Piper Story* - Had to get this for the Bret Hart match, plus a few others & the Piper's Pits. How's the doc?

*Greatest Superstars of the 21st Century (Blu Ray) *- ANGLE/BROCK UNCUT IRONMAN. Plus some other good lookin stuff.

*RAW: Best of 2010 (Blu Ray) *- I'm sure there's some gems on here somewhere.

*Backlash 2008 *- This show looks fucking legit from top to bottom.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4grW3597hT4fF3VyRC Undertaker Vs Kennedy Germany House Show 2006.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Made my WWEShop order. Everytime I think I have ALL the dvds I need, I just go buy some more.  List:
> 
> *Born to Controversy: The Roddy Piper Story* - Had to get this for the Bret Hart match, plus a few others & the Piper's Pits. How's the doc?
> 
> ...


Doc is solid. Piper glosses over the near majority of his life & career. I had no complaints. Set is worth owning for the Goldust match. 

btw, Backlash 2008 is quite flat outside of Undertaker vs Edge. :hayley3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4grW3597hT4fF3VyRC Undertaker Vs Kennedy Germany House Show 2006.


Thank you KING CAL! Other than your ROCK hate, you're awesome!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> btw, Backlash 2008 is quite flat outside of Undertaker vs Edge. :hayley3


Whaaaaat? I figured Shawn vs. Batista had to be good, plus the main event...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Whaaaaat? I figured Shawn vs. Batista had to be good, plus the main event...


Shawn vs Batista was a letdown & the main event was stronger than I expected, despite nothing to honestly go out of your way to see. 

**1/2
**3/4 

respectively.

Matt Hardy vs MVP is the worst thing ever. :lmao It's sooooooo bad.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Whaaaaat? I figured Shawn vs. Batista had to be good, plus the main event...


The main event is good but suffers from WM2000 syndrome. JBL and Cena are pretty much filler and get eliminated one after another and it turns into another 20 minutes HHH/Orton match. It's not as dull as, say WM25, but they should have used the four way stipulation similar to the Backlash main event the year before.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Welp, it was only $6.99 so hopefully I'll enjoy it somewhat. Lookin forward to MVP/Matt now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not an eyesore of a show. Only giving you a heads up so you can walk into it with a potentially better perception of what to expect. I held off on watching it for long b/c the card on paper didn't even interest me, haha. Just watched it back in January. Seen worse & seen better.

Matt Hardy's post match promo is worth a chuckle too. I love Matt, but it seemed he peered into his TNA career for a second thanks to how long he paused during it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

je-sus my internet is killing me tonight, thought i'd download all those links for future viewing too but only d/loaded 2 of them so far 

honestly though the prospect of Regal & Ambrose gets me :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

About to watch HBK/Austin KOTR '97. Haven't watched this one in awhile, anyone have any stars for it?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> honestly though the prospect of Regal & Ambrose gets me :mark:


Yeah I need to watch Ambrose/Regal too. No idea why I've not got around to it. I'll be watching them tomorrow that's for sure.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Seriously, watch Regal/Ambrose, it is so fucking good.

Speaking of Regal, has Ohno/Regal appeared yet? Hero/Regal was always a personal dream match of mine


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haven't seen either match yet, ABH? Oh you're in for a treat.

After being dodgy with other projects, finished Kidd vs Barreta III atm. Finally those guys captured the essence of how they should work together. Cut the bs rest holds into random fancy moves and work a sub-ten minute sprint with interesting ebb & flow changes. Fun match albeit with a slight abrupt finish. It came into play well with the callbacks of Trent's injured neck + the sharpshooter not getting the job done this time around, so that makes up for it. ***

@Tanner


Spoiler: Regal vs Ohno



It was taped on the recent batch of NXT shows. It'll air following WM, iirc.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Haven't seen either match yet, ABH? Oh you're in for a treat.


I know, I almost feel ashamed. I guess I kinda forgot about that series due to the Ambrose/Rollins series being frickin' sweet. I'll definitely watch the Regal matches tomorrow and throw up some STARZ and whatnot. Oh the excitement :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> About to watch HBK/Austin KOTR '97. Haven't watched this one in awhile, anyone have any stars for it?


Just watched it a little over a week ago actually (copy and paste job):

*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels *_(King of the Ring 1997)_

So idk the full story of why this happening, but these two are the Tag Team Champions and I just assume they had this match to see who the better man/wrestler was. They clearly don't like each other too much. Starts out a little shaky. A special olympics kid jumps (or falls) over the rail and it apparently takes 2 or 3 people (also Shawn himself) to walk this kid to the back. Austin wants to actually wrestle the match but Shawn is busy with the kid, which is nice of course. 

First few minutes are a bit of a feeling out process, not sure which route they're gonna take the match. They start kicking it into high gear though and have a really cool sequence of counters and pin reversals on the mat. Austin then takes control and goes into full on heel mode(he's got a LOT of fans in the crowd though, despite him throwing up multiple middle fingers) and starts using the ropes for leverage. He even gorilla press slams Michaels on the exposed concrete on the floor, nice spot there.

Michaels eventually makes his comeback and they start showing flashes of greatness again by going full speed at running the ropes and hitting counters and shit. This match could've been really special had they had a proper finish, but I totally understand why they went the route they did to of course protect both guys and still make it entertaining. Austin stunners the original ref and Michaels superkicks the next one who comes in, after he gets a nearfall on Sweet Chin Music. Earl Hebner then comes out and disqualifies both of them. The match had its average moments but the majority of it was a lot of fun, including the ending. Sort of a forgotten match in the careers of both men. Great stuff.

******


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just watched it a little over a week ago actually (copy and paste job):
> 
> *"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels *_(King of the Ring 1997)_
> 
> ...


Yeah, haven't seen this one in awhile, but still remember the finish. Agree that it's completely understandable, while another finish would have been nice. I think if HBK was healthy for WM14, that match would have been a more fast paced version of this type of match, just with the volume turned all the way up. Too bad he wasn't. Anyways, about to watch the match. Nice writeup.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I know, I almost feel ashamed. I guess I kinda forgot about that series due to the Ambrose/Rollins series being frickin' sweet. I'll definitely watch the Regal matches tomorrow and throw up some STARZ and whatnot. Oh the excitement :mark:


(Y)

You'll be holding your arm after the first match. Feeling the pain suffered by Ambrose after Regal goes evil villian surgeon on him during the bout. :mark:

iirc Austin vs Michaels only happened b/c Pillman couldn't work vs Austin on the PPV. The duo had tension on screen prior, but it was only enhanced into a match thanks to the card change. About...99% sure of this.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Wow.

Just watched the first match of Regal/Ambrose and Rollins/Ambrose. Blown away.

The selling from Ambrose is almost in a league of his own, especially on his arm in the Regal match. Regal deserves a lot of credit for doing these matches with the young guys, because they definitely benefit from it. As of course do we :mark: - Will be cracking onto the rest of the series soon and may do a few stars and a write up because they really are excellent (didn't want to spoil anything for ABH tonight)

Random but i believe PUNK had a match with Ambrose in 2011? i definitely remember him going to FCW and cutting a gushing promo of sorts about Ambrose, did they have a match? :$


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> You'll be holding your arm after the first match. Feeling the pain suffered by Ambrose after Regal goes evil villian surgeon on him during the bout. :mark:
> 
> iirc Austin vs Michaels only happened b/c Pillman couldn't work vs Austin on the PPV. The duo had tension on screen prior, but it was only enhanced into a match thanks to the card change. About...99% sure of this.


Yeah, I think you are correct. They were building to Austin/Pillman. They even show an Austin beating up Pillman promo from Raw before this HBK/Austin match. And Bret and Shawn were also supposed to have a match in which they set up on Raw a couple of weeks previous in which Shawn had to beat Bret in 10 mins and all of the Hart Foundation members were to be handcuffed to a ringpost, something crazy like that. But Bret's knee wasn't ready yet. This was the time period Bret was wearing the kneebrace every week on Raw. Also, the night after this match was the HBK/Bret backstage "fight."


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Wow.
> 
> Just watched the first match of Regal/Ambrose and Rollins/Ambrose. Blown away.
> 
> ...









ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yeah, I think you are correct. They were building to Austin/Pillman. They even show an Austin beating up Pillman promo from Raw before this HBK/Austin match. And Bret and Shawn were also supposed to have a match in which they set up on Raw a couple of weeks previous in which Shawn had to beat Bret in 10 mins and all of the Hart Foundation members were to be handcuffed to a ringpost, something crazy like that. But Bret's knee wasn't ready yet. This was the time period Bret was wearing the kneebrace every week on Raw. Also, the night after this match was the HBK/Bret backstage "fight."


When Austin vs Pillman did get to go down on RAW - which wasn't long after KOTR - all of the Hart Foundation members were handcuffed to the post in that match. Additional gimmick change shifted b/c Bret wasn't fully healed yet I'm sure.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Wow.
> 
> Just watched the first match of Regal/Ambrose and Rollins/Ambrose. Blown away.
> 
> ...


They did, but only the last 10 or 12 minutes were recorded by the fan, it was a FCW* HOUSE SHOW*, but anyways, the 10 minutes or so shown is phenomenal, but I believe the match went like 26 minutes or so, but this is still good!


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> When Austin vs Pillman did get to go down on RAW - which wasn't long after KOTR - all of the Hart Foundation members were handcuffed to the post in that match. Additional gimmick change shifted b/c Bret wasn't fully healed yet I'm sure.


Really? Holy shit, I don't remember that match at all. Going to have to check that out. Thanks.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HayleySabin again.



even more props for the YT link, downloading that bad boy asap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Really? Holy shit, I don't remember that match at all. Going to have to check that out. Thanks.


Yep. They released it on Pillman's Loose Cannon DVD. It's so awesome. Such a gem. Until I purchased it, I completely forgot they got to have a match in '97.

(Y)

All good Ever Wolf. It's easy when I have all of these favorited to my youtube account as it is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Brock Lesnar vs The Rock - SummerSlam 2002*
- Holds up as well as it did the first time. Just awesome all around. Starts off fast with ROCK not even doing his full entrance and just running down the ramp into the ring. Lesnar stops his momentum with a Overhead Belly to Belly and shortly after that, they do an pretty cool double kip-up spot. The story going into the match apart from the WWE Championship is that The ROCK's ribs are injured and therefore, Lesnar works on them throughout the match with Bearhugs and Shoulder Tackles. ROCK is an awesome seller and I like how his facial expressions are affected by the crowd reaction as the New York fans know he's leaving after the event and therefore, boo him in favor of Lesnar. Paul Heyman continuously causes distractions on the outside and when they exit the ring, we get an awesome Rock Bottom through the announce table done to Heyman. That's followed by a great finishing sequence as ROCK hits his the Rock Bottom but Lesnar kicks out, then he counters with his own BROCK Bottom which ROCK kicks out of. After some short back and forth, Lesnar gets ROCK up for the F5 and becomes the youngest WWE Champion in a classic slobberknocker. This really had it all from nearfalls to a hot crowd as well as big time feel. Maybe a minute or two added wouldn't have hurt but still an excellent main event to a great show. ★★★★¼


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Yep. They released it on Pillman's Loose Cannon DVD. It's so awesome. Such a gem. Until I purchased it, I completely forgot they got to have a match in '97.
> 
> (Y)
> 
> All good Ever Wolf. It's easy when I have all of these favorited to my youtube account as it is.


Ah, I don't have the Pillman DVD. But I will soon. I have all the '97 Raw's on DVD, though. Going to have check that out later/tomorrow. I've seen every Raw from that year a few times but I have no recollection of it. That will change soon. Thanks again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Ah, I don't have the Pillman DVD. But I will soon. I have all the '97 Raw's on DVD, though. Going to have check that out later/tomorrow. I've seen every Raw from that year a few times but I have no recollection of it. That will change soon. Thanks again.


No problem.

Pillman set - best five bucks ever spent. Great doc and a plethora of excellent matches.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> Wow.
> 
> Just watched the first match of Regal/Ambrose and Rollins/Ambrose. Blown away.
> 
> The selling from Ambrose is almost in a league of his own, especially on his arm in the Regal match. Regal deserves a lot of credit for doing these matches with the young guys, because they definitely benefit from it. As of course do we :mark: - Will be cracking onto the rest of the series soon and may do a few stars and a write up because they really are excellent *(didn't want to spoil anything for ABH tonight)*


You're very kind Ever Wolf haha. 

I better go to bed since it's like 1 am.m here, but I've got two of Regal/Ambrose lined up for tomorrow plus Two Man Power Trip vs Benoit/Jericho in my HHH/Benoit project. :mark: Oh fuck yes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, now that's a match I have to get on. Only seen the Power Trip tag once when I think about. Air date only. Might have watched a few years ago, but it's not ringing any bells so either way, a rewatch is very, very warranted at this rate. Got Judgment Day 2001 on tap. Thinking about watching the Jericho/Benoit insane quality week in order. Tag Turmoil first, Power Trip tag second, & TLC III to top things off. May go the full stretch and pop in Benoit vs Angle Cage + Austin vs Jericho vs Benoit from KOTR too b/c I absolutely love that brutal match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *Brock Lesnar vs The Rock - SummerSlam 2002*
> - Holds up as well as it did the first time. Just awesome all around. Starts off fast with ROCK not even doing his full entrance and just running down the ramp into the ring. Lesnar stops his momentum with a Overhead Belly to Belly and shortly after that, they do an pretty cool double kip-up spot. The story going into the match apart from the WWE Championship is that The ROCK's ribs are injured and therefore, Lesnar works on them throughout the match with Bearhugs and Shoulder Tackles. ROCK is an awesome seller and I like how his facial expressions are affected by the crowd reaction as the New York fans know he's leaving after the event and therefore, boo him in favor of Lesnar. Paul Heyman continuously causes distractions on the outside and when they exit the ring, we get an awesome Rock Bottom through the announce table done to Heyman. That's followed by a great finishing sequence as ROCK hits his the Rock Bottom but Lesnar kicks out, then he counters with his own BROCK Bottom which ROCK kicks out of. After some short back and forth, Lesnar gets ROCK up for the F5 and becomes the youngest WWE Champion in a classic slobberknocker. This really had it all from nearfalls to a hot crowd as well as big time feel. Maybe a minute or two added wouldn't have hurt but still an excellent main event to a great show. ★★★★¼


 (Y)

I loved the ROCK's run in 2002, it's arguably his best year wrestling wise but it's a shame he left after the Lesnar match. The only average PPV match was with Taker, match was too slow. The rest of his PPV matches were great including the triple threat match at Vengeance, SummerSlam, Royal Rumble and of course, his match against Hogan at WM. He even had a good set of TV matches (Flair, Guerrero, Benoit, Y2J, Angle and etc). I watched Booker T vs ROCK at a SD! episode in 2002 today and it was a decent match considering the little time they had. No rest holds or anything, just fast paced and drama action.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Superstars 2011 download nearing completion. 

This is going to be too much fun.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

fuck virgin media for chocking my speeds as of late, not got any packs d/loading atm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sounds like the hard luck I was having prior to this. ECW '09 pack wouldn't budge nor would any Clash of the Champions. It was heartbreaking. Until right now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK VS ROCK.

One of my favorite matches of all time.

:brock


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Since I know you're not gonna give me a full review, go ahead and give your Dungeon Collection stars *KOK.*


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Jericho's documentary gets :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: 
Awesome (Y)

Onto Randal Keith Orton's doc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho's doc has got to be my favorite from a sole wrestler. Gonna nab Punk's soon. His could top the bunch. I'll have to wait and see. Then there is Foley's too. Knowing me, his may just come to be my favorite. Mick shouldn't skimp on any details. I want some new stories as I know so much about the guy already, haha.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I see we're discussing some of my all time favoruite matches so why not throw in my 2 cents on them.

Rock vs Brock Summerslam 2002 **** EPIC
Ambrose vs Regal I ****1/2
Ambrose vs Regal II ****1/2

And I've had the Rollins/Ambrose series downloaded for ages now and I've yet to watch them. It's like everytime I start the first encounter I stop 2 minutes in. I don't know. Need to get around to watching them. I got a shitload of wrestling on my computer and not enough time.

Right now I'm studying for finals (more like I should be) so I don't start watching any matches till about 10 in the night. I usually go to be around 1, 2.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Right now I'm studying for finals (more like I should be) so I don't start watching any matches till about 10 in the night. I usually go to be around 1, 2.


 You're not alone


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Superstars 2011 download finished :mark: :mark: :mark:

tempted to jump right to some McIntyre & Riley matches. I'll play the patient card and let things roll on till I get there.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Holy shit, so my plan was to watch one or two McIntyre matches, I watched six instead, all of them super fun and great Superstar matches, so here are SUM STARZ

vs Chris Masters 5/26/10 ***1/2 WOW
vs Chris Masters 5/12/11 **** :mark:
vs Evan Bourne 5/19/11 ***3/4 :mark:
vs Daniel Bryan 8/25/11 ***1/2 SO GOOD
vs John Morrison 9/29/11 ***1/2 Never heard anything about this match, but GO WATCH IT NOW
vs Ted DiBiase Jr. 11/24/11 ***+ Same here, plus DiBiase was decently over

Seriously, these are just wonderful matches, all of them are unique and just so much fun, the Jr match definitely surprised me, now a few complaints.

1.) Why is McIntyre stuck with 3MB, he is good! Why couldn't 3MB be like Mahal/Usos? 
2.) Why did WWE get rid of Masters!? The guy is a fucking beast, like holy shit.

So yea, great wait to kill just over an hour or so, if there are any other McIntyre matches I should check out then please tell me! Besides the Christian matches of course, I have seen all of them besides the 4th one, because I couldn't find it lol, but seriously do yourself a favor and watch these now!


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Ugh, I hate this narration. It's like I'm watching a Nat Geo special. I know it's a documentary, but the other docs weren't like this.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watch McIntyre's matches with Low Ki from 2010. One on SmackDown is a great four minutes and one on Superstars (11/11/10 IIRC) that gets more time and develops into a real goody. Drew also had a small crop of good matches with Rey Mysterio in 2010, with the best and longest one being in August, I think. Also, his matches with Matt Hardy that year should without saying. They almost tie in with the Christian feud. Sort of. 

Fucking Drew was so fucking good back then. Fuck. 2010 was an awesome time to watch Superstars. SmackDown too before Kane and Edge stunk up the joint with the worst feud of all time.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm not sure if it's 2011, maybe it's 2010, but there's a Regal/David Hart Smith match from Superstard that's definitely worth a watch. If it's 2011, you 2011 downloaders should check it out. 

I've heard so much about McIntyre's ass kicking days on Superstars in 2011. So much gems that I haven't seen. All I have seen in one Masters match. Not sure about the date though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Just finished watching Flair vs HHH Taboo Tuesday '05 and ummm, i gotta ask, what was up with all the F-bombs by Flair? I mean, I get that it adds to the hatred Flair has for The Game but did that make the DVD? I assume I was watching a DVDRip of the match, so I guess it did. It's just weird to think how far WWE has come in terms of toning down the violence and all the grit.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched the two Regal/Ambrose matches. Dean's level of selling is consistently through the roof. First, from Regal working over the left shoulder, then the end of the first match, he's got this psycho smile after taking the two suplexes, then Regal puts him away with that exposed. 

The second match is even better because of the COMMENTARY. Jim Ross and Dusty Rhodes are a pretty good team, and JR is as profound as always. He's pretty calm until the end of the match when Ambrose goes crazy after the match gets called due to Regal not knowing where he is. On that note, I have to praise Regal for his selling. His equilibrium had been knocked and he sold it with that far off look and not being able to stand without help of the ropes. JR's last big statement, "Dean Ambrose may have just put, figuratively, a bullet in the professional mortatlity of William Regal." 

Only problem was Dusty kept calling Regal "Steven Regal". You'd think JR would write a little note or drop a hint and say "William" or someone on the headset would correct him, but Dusty said "Steven Regal" about 5-6 times during that match.

Can't wait to see Ambrose on his own. He's got that great crazy psycho heel mentality (there just aren't enough adjectives).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The lengthy McIntyre vs Matt Hardy match after Matt got hired back was probably the next best thing Drew did from 2010 outside of the Masters/Christian matches. Then there was their sub-six minute match that was arguably more brutal than the 12 minute match.

If only WWE gave time to his matches vs Finlay in late '09. Both were awesome for only being super duper short. That says it all. If they had at least five minutes. Wow. Holy crap at what we could have seen.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

What are the dates for the Matt Hardy/McIntyre matches? I am certain I have never seen them ;p


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*War Games
*The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Sid Vicious) & Larry Zbyszko vs. Sting, Brian Pillman, & The Steiner Brothers
_WCW WrestleWar '91_

Holy hell this is so much fun from bell to bell. Right off the bat we have an awesome 5 minute beginning period with Pillman vs. Windham that sees Pillman use the cage to fly around all over the place and Windham breaks out a NASTY bladejob while bumping like a madman. Flair of course blades hard and one of the really cool things about this match is that you can see big circles of blood on the actual cage where guys have been scraped against it so much. Really adds to the brutality of the match. Pillman takes a lot of painful looking bumps to his injured shoulder while Sting keeps the excitement rolling by flying from ring to ring and also gorilla pressing Flair into the top of the cage multiple times. Rick Steiner legit no sells it every time he's thrown into the cage. It's awesome, he just stands there and acts like nothing happened.  The spot where everyone in the match is locked in a Figure-4 rules so much, the crowd went nuts. Sid talks WAY too much in this, though. Like every time the camera's on him, he's asking someone a question and talking directly to them. Really the only downfall of the match is that the finish just really came early and wrecked the huge momentum they had going, but on the other hand the two powerbombs Sid delivered were NASTY and at least the finish played into Pillman's shoulder injury. Super fun match regardless.

***** 1/4*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

6/25/10
8/13/10

Plus: McIntyre vs Kaval I - 9/10/10, McIntyre vs Kaval II - 11/11/10, & McIntyre vs Mysterio 8/6/10.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

:mark: Fucking awesome match Jack Evans!

There's this really nice segment where Orton takes his wife and daughter backstage to meet people and John fucking Cena enters the frame with his purple shirt. :lmao I didn't have to guess who that was, the purple shirt gave him away. He was probably just walking around, but I just found that hilarious.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Orton doc is pretty cool. I wasn't much of a fan of how they did it, with them building to Orton's midcard match at Mania but it kind of grew on me afterwards. It's a good, long-awaited documentary.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *War Games
> *The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Sid Vicious) & Larry Zbyszko vs. Sting, Brian Pillman, & The Steiner Brothers
> _WCW WrestleWar '91_
> 
> ...


Sid wackiness aside, it's a clear cut five star match in my books.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm liking it so far. My only gripes are the narration and the mixing of kayfabe and real life. You learn about him as a lad, then they talk about him furious about CM Punk and the Chamber match. Minor gripe with the latter.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The entire first disc of Rey Mysterio: Biggest Little Man fucking rules. Some matches I just watched:

Mysterio/Malenko *7/8/96 Nitro:* ****
Mysterio/Dragon *Hog Wild '96:* ***3/4
Mysterio/Super Calo *Fall Brawl '96:* ****
Mysterio/Malenko *Halloween Havoc '96:* ****1/4

I miss the WCW Crusierweight Division so much. That is all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> The Orton doc is pretty cool. I wasn't much of a fan of how they did it, with them building to Orton's midcard match at Mania but it kind of grew on me afterwards. It's a good, long-awaited documentary.


Midcard? It was one of the bigger matches on the show. Does card placement mean that much to people?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Wait a minute...that ppv was called Hog Wild? I thought it was Road Wild?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

SpookshowTony said:


> Wait a minute...that ppv was called Hog Wild? I thought it was Road Wild?


The first one in '96 was Hog Wild. Then WCW had to change it to Road Wild because of trademark issues with Harley Davidson.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Very first edition in '96 was originally called Hog Wild. It was later changed to Road Wild in the latter years due to some legal rights with Harley-Davidson.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Sid wackiness aside, it's a clear cut five star match in my books.


I can see it. People rave about '91 and '92 and I've seen both matches but won't go over **** 1/2 on either. That's obviously not saying they're bad.

You know... now that I think about it, I don't think I've EVER rated anything in WCW history higher than **** 1/2. WarGames '92 and Rey/Eddie from Halloween Havoc hold that candle. Seen Rey/Eddie like 7 times.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Ah, okay.

You've been ninja'd, Sabin.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got a few five star matches from WCW. Quite a bit come close too - like Finlay vs Regal from Uncensored '96. Which may be the greatest singles match I've seen from the company.

Wait, lolz. It was WCW in '89 when Flair vs Steamboat happened. Yeah, I have at least ten "five star" matches from WCW.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, subtract my statement then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booyakasha.

You gots to familiarize yourself with Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 if you aren't. Or if you are, watch it a million more times and realize it may be the best match from the 90's.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That the one from Rise & Fall of WCW? If so I just haven't seen it yet, among many other matches from that set...

EDIT: Pillman vs. Liger from SuperBrawl '92 = **** 1/2. Unlike anything WCW fans had ever seen before.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

More MCINTYRE STARZ

vs Mysterio 8/6/10 ***1/4
vs Matt Hardy 8/13/10 ***3/4 Oh holy shit, this may be my favorite match from 2010
vs Kaval 9/10/10 *** This is only like 4 minutes, but still awesome
vs Kaval II 11/11/10 ***1/2 Longer version of their previous match, so what's not to love?

Seriously, I looked for a solid 30 minutes for that Hardy/McIntyre match from June and the Christian one from September, if anyone could up them for me or something it would be awesome!

Also, on a side note, did not expect this much McIntyre on my nominations list lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I have Eddie vs. Rey from Halloween Havoc as a ***** match, hopefully people don't shit on me for this.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I have Eddie vs. Rey from Halloween Havoc as a ***** match, hopefully people don't shit on me for this.


Nope, you're one of many. No worries.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Evolution of a Predator gets rton2 rton2 rton2 rton2

I'm surprised I liked it since it wasn't high on my list of WWE docs to view.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Edge vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXIV*

Let me start off by saying that not only do I love this match, I love Wrestlemania XXIV as a whole. I think it's a top 3 Wrestlemania and is definitely a contender for #2 along with 17, with 19 being the GOAT. 

The build for this match is so awesome. Deep down inside you knew Taker was going to win just because it's Wrestlemania, but damn, Edge really was made to look like a threat. The video package before the match is one of the best ever. Check it out.






Also before the match, Edge cuts his GOAT promo. I know I've posted it in this thread before, but I'm going to post it again because it's awesome.






The match starts off kind of slow. The combatants feel each other out for a bit, but it starts to pick up really quickly. There are so many god damn counters in this match it's ridiculous. It's not a bad thing, but damn. Just when you thought Undertaker was going to hit Old School, Edge pulls Taker down, but Taker counters again and turns it into an arm drag. 

Edge whipped out some cool new moves including an inverted Half Boston Crab which looked pretty painful. Taker also hits one of the highest Chokeslams I have ever seen in this match. These two really wanted to put on a classic and they did. Like I said, the counters in this match were un-freaking-believable. The stuff Edge pulled off in this match made him look like a legitimate threat. It looked as if he had studied The Undertaker for days prior. 

This match also has the infamous Charles Robinson run down to the ring to make the count after Undertaker hits a Tombstone but with no referee in sight. 






The ending came when Taker made Edge tap out to the Hells Gate (or according to Michael Cole, "THAT SUBMISSION" :cole3)

*Closing thoughts:* This is a classic. One of the best Wrestlemania main events ever. Sure, the match starts off a bit slow, but it doesn't take long to pick up. Counters, counters, and more counters. It added so much to the psychology of the match. You have Taker, the near 20 year veteran looking to go 16-0 and then you have the young stud in Edge, the champion, looking to put an end to the streak once and for all and by doing so he would cement himself as one of the best of all time. 

*Rating: ****1/2*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks ^^^ 

Watching a few WCW series here and there, I noticed Sting/Flair had a lot of matches, most of them being only good-great matches, which kinda mind boggles me considering the two are awesome workers. It's kinda weird seeing them only peaking in that 4-star range.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CHARLES "WARRIOR" ROBINSON = GOAT.

ANYWAYS. WHAT CENA MATCH SHOULD I WATCH NEXT?

EDIT: CENA VS ORTON 5/12/08 ... Orton is hearing voices and walking to the ring slow as shit... OH JESUS.

:cena3


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> CHARLES "WARRIOR" ROBINSON = GOAT.
> 
> ANYWAYS. WHAT CENA MATCH SHOULD I WATCH NEXT?
> 
> :cena3


David Flair & Ric Flair vs. Sean'O Haire & The Prototype (John Cena) - OVW Spring Breakout 2002


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DID RIC FLAIR AND JOHN CENA GET IN THE SAME RING TOGETHER ?!?!??!?!

FUCK OFF. NO WAY.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> DID RIC FLAIR AND JOHN CENA GET IN THE SAME RING TOGETHER ?!?!??!?!
> 
> FUCK OFF. NO WAY.


John Cena & Ric Flair vs. Chris Masters & Edge - RAW 2006
John Cena & Ric Flair vs. Edge & Johnny Nitro - RAW 2006
John Cena, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels & Triple H vs. Edge, Kenny, Randy Orton & The Big Show - RAW 2006
John Cena, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels & Triple H vs. John Bradshaw Layfield, Randy Orton, The Big Show & Umaga - RAW 2008 - No Disqualification 

DAMN STRAIGHT, Too bad they never had a match against each other, different to the one i mentioned above.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That the one from Rise & Fall of WCW? If so I just haven't seen it yet, among many other matches from that set...
> 
> EDIT: Pillman vs. Liger from SuperBrawl '92 = **** 1/2. Unlike anything WCW fans had ever seen before.


That's the one. Unbelievable match. Leaves me :mark: after every watch.

as does Liger vs Pillman. Aka another one of those five star WCW matches I made reference too.

---------

Finished up Kidd, Gabriel, Slater vs Barreta & Usos trios match from Superstars and it more than holds up. Such an interestingly worked match from start to finish. If the mini workover portion was cut for a more sprint like capacity that fit in with the rest of the match it would have earn a spot at the top of the Superstars list. The very top that is. Nonetheless that minor gripe takes nothing away from the rest of the goodness this brought. Interesting, fast paced majority flow. Neat spots rarely seen in the average WWE tag. The ever popular superplex to the outside spot that the fans went ape for. A total surprise to all those fans in attendance. You can tell. They were lukewarm during the entrances and boom. Out of nowhere the dynamic of all six put on a hell of a show. If the Usos worked like that all the time I wouldn't think they're crummy. Other four rock - so their efforts were expected. Great match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

@ Alim - Nice little review, and totally agree with you on that awesome promo package before the match. Definitely one of my favourites. Plus Edge's great pre-match promo too. Also about WM24 being a top 3 'Mania. In fact, agree all round. :clap

I'm about to watch the first Regal/Ambrose match. This should be sweet. :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Damn, Regal/Ambrose I was awesome. Two very similar guys and you gotta love the story of the wily veteran trying to teach the young upstart a lesson. Regal as always is very aggressive and vicious and I love how he toyed with Ambrose from time to time, like just standing back and watching him struggle. Trapping his arm in the turnbuckle pad was really great, and squeezing it between the steps and jarring it was very good too. As others have mentioned, Ambrose played his part too and sold that arm injury to perfection. Just having it limp at his side throughout the match was very smart and he really did look in pain. Some classic Regal with the powerful suplexes towards the end and the running knee for the win. Great stuff. Easily ******. 

Now onto round II!

Edit: Not quite as high on the second match as the first one, mostly due to the 'finish' I guess. Still excellent though. I loved the callback to the first match with Regal going straight for the arm despite this one being over a year after. Excellent storytelling. Regal in complete control in the first part again, but this time Ambrose is able to come back and pretty much 'out-Regal's Regal'. It's an excellent story, and Ambrose really takes it to Regal, and I especially loved him aggressively working on Regal in the croner with the exposed bottom turnbuckle. The ending made Ambrose look legit and darn right evil. I'll give it ****3/4*. Awesome series.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

For the last 2 months I’ve been watching nothing but Dynamite Kid matches and what a wrestler this guy was. Just want to share some of the matches. 

*August 20 1982 - Dynamite Kid, Bret Hart, Valentine vs Tiger Mask, Fujinami, Kimura (2/3 Falls) ****1/4* Japan
DAMN! Great match, highly entertaining, just non-stop action. Probably over rating it a bit.

*April 27 1985 – Bulldogs vs Hart Foundation ***3/4* Philadelphia
Their very first match together in the Spectrum and a very solid match except for the ending. I HATE DRAWS.

*December 15 1985 – Bulldogs vs Dream Team ***3/4* Maple Leaf Gardens
These guys had great chemistry against each other and this is probably their best match, but there is about another 8 matches that could rival it, and boy can Valentine and Beefcake take an ass whooping.

Man I could recommend about another 20 matches of Dynamite, just an incredible worker, and since I find it hard to enjoy Benoit nowadays, Dynamite is the next best thing. I hope WWE can release a Bulldogs dvd one day long overdue.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey *KOK*, you definitely need to see this, 5 of the GOAT and HBK in one match  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Bye81YC6U


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project MEGA POST*

*Goldberg/Henry, Raw 10/6/2003:* ***1/2. I think it's safe to say this might just be the best World Heavyweight Title match that Goldberg was involved in. In factuality, it isn't (HBK's match has this one beat) It was a SPECTACULAR display of storytelling, and one could say Mark Henry carried the whole thing, but Goldberg did step up and create a good performance for himself too. The pace wasn't slow, Henry's control segments were very, very good - I marked out a lil' bit when I saw Henry perform a Rock Bottom-esque move (NATION OF DOMINATION :mark -, the crowd was really intense from what I saw, and the moment where Goldberg slams Henry isn't on Hogan/Andre levels of memorability, but it's still a nice "feel-good" (let's call it like that) moment. The DQ finish isn't terrible, as both men are kept strong... well, up to the point where Goldberg Jackhammers Henry. Though it did step up the Goldberg/HBK match this week, which I already reviewed. Really good stuff, and another TV gem found.

*Benoit/Kane, Raw 6/28/2004:* ***3/4. This probably would've been **** if it wasn't for the commercial break overkill. Benoit in 2004 was the monster of amazing matches with anyone and everyone. Their Bad Blood match was nothing short of great, and this was ALMOST as good, as like I said, there was way too much commercial overkill for it to be really awesome. Once again, terrific atmosphere, awesome wrestling counters, the restholds and no-selling of them weren't too bothering, and because of the whole "Benoit can lose the title in any means", the count-out spot was actually important and actually mattered a lot. Kane's selling of the arm was very good too, and seeing him tap after fighting hard against the Crossface was a bit bad for a Kane mark like myself but still, not all's good. Really good match.

*Batista/Hassan, Raw 5/30/2005:* *1/4. The actual match was, like, barely 5 minutes. And it was mostly a squash in Batista's favour. Well, what do you get? Undefeated Muhummad Hassan getting defeated by the new big guy on TV. A true Austin walkout case here: instead of building up a proper match between these two on PPV, building to Hassan finally getting pinned but still having been properly introduced as a Main Event character, kaboom. They waste it on Raw. What a shame. Post-match was a beatdown, the match was like 60% a beatdown too, why bother.

*Batista/Angle, Raw 6/20/2005:* 1/2*. That rating is only because the match itself was good for what it was... too bad it was only like two minutes. I mean, when Batista goes for his Spinebuster and Angle reverses into the Ankle Lock 20 seconds into the match, you know it's going to lead into something like that. It was all screwed in turn for a Batista & HBK vs. Angle & HHH tag, but like I said, if you want to kill two minutes in a match that, with proper time, could've been a MotYC, there you go.

*Batista/Christian, Smackdown 7/7/2005:* **3/4. Even though it wasn't mentioned to be a World Title match, I took a look at it anyway. Then again, their April 05 match wasn't mentioned to be for the World Title, even though WWE themselves announced it was such on WWE.com. Meh, whatever. This was pretty good. Not as good as their April match, since it was a bit more generic and a bit more one-sided, but still nice stuff. The selling wasn't bad, the action was alright, Christian was his usual awesome self everytime he had the chance to, the finish sucked but it was worthwhile for its aftermath that featured another of JBL's CLASSICAL headshots with the head. Dude was a stiff son of a bitch, especially with a chair in his hand. Decent stuff overall.

*Batista/Orton, Smackdown 11/22/2005:*... it didn't even start. It was supposed to be a Triple Threat with Eddie Guerrero involved, but unfortunely you know what happened. Whatever.

*Booker/Rey, Smackdown 7/25/2006:* ***. Damn the crowd was HOT for this one... well, hot for Eddie Guerrero, that is. So much exploiting of his death made Rey Mysterio such a leech and paper champion may I say. Though he did have a couple of good matches (like the instant classic with Orton or the excellent JBL and Mark Henry matches). The wrestling was pretty good here, with some nice moves and one or two cool spots. Booker played really well the bully heel here, one that was fighting with a huge amount of desperation to retain his recently won prize. Psychology and storytelling were pretty nice too, Rey's selling was spot-on, nothing bad at all here. The commentary was extremely good here, Cole and JBL at their finest. Sharmell played the manager role nicely (as she always did), there were some pretty neat counters (like Mysterio going for the twirt-a-whirl takedown only for Booker to turn it into a side slam), their chemistry was nice, finish was DQ but whatever, and this was overall a good little match here. But not as good as The Great American Bash, I'll tell you.

*Booker/Taker, Smackdown 7/31/2006:* ***. Great Texans, great Texans everywhere. Austin, Michaels, Guerrero, Rhodes, Von Erich, JBL... so many. Taker and Booker are definitely on that list too. Another HOT match for Booker, and this time it didn't need Eddie Guerrero's help. Their chemistry was pretty damn fine, with some really cool counters and a terrific fast pace. The commentary was AWESOME too, JBL and Kennedy together were gold. Everything was crisp and well executed, crowd heat was more than fine, the time span of the match was a little way too long but still proportioned a very nice affair. The closing 3 minutes were very, very good. Too bad it ended AGAIN in a DQ. What a surprise though.

*Booker/Batista, SummerSlam 2006:* DUD. As a guy who's watched SummerSlam 2006 like a thousand times in the past (my 1st DVD-owned PPV ever), here's what I have to say: Rey/Chavo is a dead, underwhelming piece of shit; Show/Sabu is fun if you discount the million botches; Hogan/Orton is a disgrace; Flair/Foley is quite amazing; DX/McMahons is pure fun; Edge/Cena is a near-classic; and Booker/Batista is plain AWFUL. Sloppy, slow, very dull, they really didn't gave a shit about putting a good performance there, and the crowd rightfully shitted all over it as well. Everybody and their mothers should know at this point about the Booker/Batista backstage heat, but that's still not an excuse for not putting a good match with each other. Matt Hardy and Edge would tell otherwise in a nutshell. And that's not it. Not just that, but the DQ finish is awful. This here is a disgrace for the legacy of SummerSlam (to think the next year they would do even worse than this is sickening).

*Booker/Batista, Smackdown 9/8/2006:* **. It was far hotter and, as my rating says, far better than the SummerSlam debacle. How? Well, it was exactly what that one should've been - a brawl. Not a stiff, hard-fought brawl as one would've ask both men to given their backstage heat, but it was still pretty underwhelming, below average being the right sentence for it. It was still quite dull, and still sloppy. These two simply couldn't get it done if there wasn't a Finlay in between, isn't it like that? Well I'll tell you this, this one could've been the same match as SummerSlam, but it would've still not have been a DUD like that one was, because it benefitted from being exactly where it belonged - on Smackdown. Not on the 2nd biggest show of the year, essentially the mid-year WrestleMania.

*Booker/Batista/Finlay/Lashley, No Mercy 2006:* ***1/2. This is essentially Over The Limit 2012 6 years before: thank God the WWE thought better and added Batista and Finlay for what could've been a terrible, heatless Main Event between Booker and Lashley. Their Judgment Day 2006 match was average at best, and that was like 7 minutes. Over 10 minutes in a PPV Main Event? God. This was really fun, with every man playing their roles in the match perfectly, from Booker playing the cowardly "king", to Finlay playing the tough as nails son of a bitch who will go through anyone to win the World Title, to Batista and Lashley playing the big friendly face who want the World Title as much as the next guy, especially Batista. Interestingly enough, this was the 1st of a couple of times that Batista and Booker finally had a good match together... when Finlay was inserted in the middle of them. 

*Booker/Batista, Smackdown 10/20/2006:* *. With John Cena and The Big Show watching this at ringside (to see who'd be in the ring with them at Cyber Sunday), this was given 9 minutes to "steal the show". And even with less than 10 minutes, it was still slow, dull, idiotically boring, and while not essentially sloppy, they didn't have a good wrestling showcase at all. Oh, and surprise of surprises: Batista won via DQ. AGAIN. Do I really have to say anything about this? NEXT.

*Booker/Cena/Show, Cyber Sunday 2006:* **3/4. It was bland and a little bit lackluster, which means it was dissapointing when you consider who was involved. Not that it was bad, it was actually OK for what it was, but it had the obligation of being way, way better. It wasn't surprising "the people voted" for the World Title to be on the grabs, nor it was of seeing Booker retain, it was just a matter of seeing how. That was the curiosity factor for me regarding this match, and guess what: Booker pinned Cena after Kevin Federline screwed the poor guy. Yippie yay yey. This was nothing more than hype for the Cena/Federline match, that's the conclusion I arrived by the end of this one. Well, fuck it. It was decent, that's what matters, ain't that right? 

*Booker/Lashley, Smackdown 11/6/2006:*... couldn't find this match anywhere. Then again, it's Booker vs. Lashley. If I don't find it, it's not like it's a sad time. More like a joy, actually.

*Booker/Batista, Survivor Series 2006:* DUD. Well... ABOUT FUCKING TIME THIS SHIT IS OVER. This was still slow, it was still sloppy, it was still uninteresting, I still couldn't give half a shit about it. The crowd shitted on it as well. And the ending? It wasn't a crappy DQ, it was the face CHEATING completely and blatantly to win the World Title. That's it? Really?! Good God. The crowd was shitting all over it, and great they did. KOK and everyone else, you complain about Sheamus/ADR being a bad saga? Well, if you think that's bad, you truly haven't seen anything. That's GOD compared to this. Without doubt, tied with HHH/Steiner as the worst World Title-feud ever as far as in-ring work is concerned. Thank Goodness it's finally over now...

*Batista/Booker/Finlay, Smackdown 11/28/2006:* ****. Apart from the short Batista/Booker portions, this was terrific. Finlay is a god - he put a **** rating from me on a match that involves Batista and Booker. Is it because of his awesome psychology? His terrific control of match pace and flow? His catch-can all-round European stiff style that allows his to work awesomely well with ANYONE? I don't know. I can only imagine if Eddie G. was still alive when Finlay debuted (his death happened in what was like a month of a difference). Him vs. Finlay in 20 minutes would've been :mark:. But anyways, this one right here is an amazing Triple Threat, with some stiff, well-paced and very hot crowded action. Batista's 2nd World Title reign started with a true bang here. There were some storytelling and psychology gems hidden within, such as Batista ramming Finlay multiple times against the ring post (remember when Finlay busted him open?), and Finlay attacking his "king" multiple times in every corner. An extremely underrated gem, and one that would probably make my Top 30 Smackdown matches ever, if not 25. Amazing stuff.

*UPDATED WHC MATCH RANKS
Booker/Lashley, Smackdown 11/6/2006 (Can't find it)
Batista/Orton, Smackdown 11/22/2005 (N/R)
Batista/JBL, The Great American Bash 2005 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
Booker/Batista, Survivor Series 2006 (DUD)
Booker/Batista, SummerSlam 2006 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
Batista/Angle, Raw 6/20/2005 (1/2*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
Angle/Henry, Royal Rumble 2006 (3/4*)
Booker/Batista, Smackdown 10/20/2006 (*)
Batista/Hassan, Raw 5/30/2005 (*1/4)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
HHH/Jeff, Raw 9/16/2002 (**)
Batista/Booker, Smackdown 9/8/2006 (**)
Batista/JBL, Smackdown 9/9/2005 (**)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
Batista/Edge, Raw 5/23/2005 (**1/2)
Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005 (**1/2)
Booker/Cena/Show, Cyber Sunday 2006 (**3/4)
20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 1/13/2006 (**3/4)
Batista/Christian, Smackdown 7/7/2005 (**3/4)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
Angle/Rey/Orton, WrestleMania 22 (***)
Booker/Rey, Smackdown 7/25/2006 (***)
Booker/Taker, Smackdown 7/31/2006 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Maven, Heat 7/13/2003 (***1/4)
Rey/Booker, The Great American Bash 2006 (***1/4)
Rey/Angle, Smackdown 4/28/2006 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
Goldberg/Jericho, Raw 9/22/2003 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
HHH/RVD, Raw 6/30/2003 (***1/2)
Booker/Batista/Finlay/Lashley, No Mercy 2006 (***1/2)
Rey/JBL, Smackdown 5/26/2006 (***1/2)
Rey/Sabu, One Night Stand 2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Bubba, Raw 9/30/2002 (***1/2)
Goldberg/Henry, Raw 10/6/2003 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005 (***1/2)
Rey/Henry, Smackdown 6/23/2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Flair, Raw 5/19/2003 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Benoit/Kane, Raw 6/28/2004 (***3/4)
Rey/JBL, Judgment Day 2006 (***3/4)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Batista/Booker/Finlay, Smackdown 11/28/2006 (****)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Batista/Eddie, No Mercy 2005 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Angle/Taker, Smackdown 3/3/2006 (****1/4)
Rey/Orton, Smackdown 4/7/2006 (****1/4)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****1/2)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Batista/HHH, Vengeance 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
Angle/Taker, No Way Out 2006 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)*​


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Almost onto Taker's WHC reign, yum yum. :yum::yum::yum:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Now that is a MEGA post. Nice write ups.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Excellent post ATF. I'm really worried about the Booker/Batista feud going into it soon because I haven't heard ONE good thing about it.

That said, I'm a bit more excited about finishing July of Smackdown 06 with that Taker match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Promised i wouldn't touch another Booker/Taker match after the POS of a match they had at JD 2004, but this SD match could change my views on things.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That No Mercy match is indeed awesome. To be fair a pretty solid PPV from all sides from what i can remember;

Benoit/Regal, the Fatal 4 Way, Hardy/Helms & Mysterio/Chavo is quite a bit of fun also.

Fuck Batista and Booker seriously, awful matches everytime. Big Dave was pretty awful when he returned in summer 06 until the rumble in 07, he seemed to turn things around and just in time for his series with Taker, which everyone knows is pretty cool beans.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You know when you're in the mood to watch matches of a realy random wrestler and you don't know why? Yeah, I'm in one of them, with KEN SHAMROCK. Any recs, plz?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

FluxCapacitor said:


> You know when you're in the mood to watch matches of a realy random wrestler and you don't know why? Yeah, I'm in one of them, with KEN SHAMROCK. Any recs, plz?


Rock - King Of The Ring 1998
Mankind, The Rock- Breakdown 1998 (Cage Match)
Mankind - Judgment Day 1998
Val Venis - St Valentines Day Massacre 1999
Venis, Goldust and Road Dogg - Wrestlemania XV

There are a few I like. Nothing below ** in my opinion.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Anyone have ~STARZ for SS 2011? I'm watching it now, just finished Show/Henry, will post all my ratings when I'm done.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

IYH: DX 12/7/97 HBK/Shamrock, as well as the other ones already listed by Dark Church.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Also the Lions' Den match with Owen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> You know when you're in the mood to watch matches of a realy random wrestler and you don't know why? Yeah, I'm in one of them, with KEN SHAMROCK. Any recs, plz?


vs Vader ~ IYH: A Cold Day in Hell _(his best WWF match)_
vs Owen Hart ~ Dungeon Match: Fully Loaded '98
vs Owen Hart ~ Lion's Den Match: SummerSlam '98
vs Owen Hart & Triple H ~ RAW 6/29/98
vs The Rock ~ Royal Rumble '98


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Damn, how could I forget the Lions Den. I was there, good times. The cage match with Rock and Mankind at Breakdown might be the best he was in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He had a match with Bret Hart on RAW in late '97 that got a good bit of time behind it, iirc. That should certainly be worth a watch. Always his first match against Shawn Michaels on RAW 11/3/97 too.

Yeah, it's a multi-man tag, but the Canadian Stampede match has to be listed. I should have mentioned it in the first place.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Shamrock vs. Austin - RAW - I Quit Match
Shamrock vs. Undertaker - Backlash 1999

These were all pretty good IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Undertaker was kind of a mess.

One of the biggest letdowns I've seen in the whole of rasslin.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> vs Undertaker was kind of a mess.
> 
> One of the biggest letdowns I've seen in the whole of rasslin.


I'll admit, It was a really FUN trainwreck/mess. One of the better Shamrock matches, I'm more inclined to hear your thoughts on the I Quit match with Austin.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Shamrock had a match against Undertaker?

Why have I never fucked known of this in my 10+ years of being a wrestling fan and 3+ years of being a SMARK~!?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched a few John Cena video packages to get myself hyped this morning (well, this afternoon... I just woke up and it's 4 o clock in the evening) and I'm ready to PUT ON some more John Cena for my viewing pleasures, starting with the Jeff Hardy vs John Cena match up from 2008 to determine the number one contendership for the WWE Championship.

You know, as much as I can't stand Jeff, Looking back on it right now makes me realize that he really ups his in ring work for the main event scene, and I have to give him major props for that.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Shamrock vs. Austin - RAW - I Quit Match
> Shamrock vs. Undertaker - Backlash 1999
> 
> These were all pretty good IMO.


Was Shamrock/Austin 1998 or 1999?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I'll admit, It was a really FUN trainwreck/mess. One of the better Shamrock matches, I'm more inclined to hear your thoughts on the I Quit match with Austin.


If you got a link, I'll check it out.



FluxCapacitor said:


> Shamrock had a match against Undertaker?
> 
> Why have I never fucked known of this in my 10+ years of being a wrestling fan and 3+ years of being a SMARK~!?


b/c it's pretty bad. 

You know what fans thought of a 19 minute MMA type match in the Attitude Era? NOTHING. They crap on it so hard, haha. I'm in the mood to watch it again now.



KingOfKings said:


> Watched a few John Cena video packages to get myself hyped this morning (well, this afternoon... I just woke up and it's 4 o clock in the evening) and I'm ready to PUT ON some more John Cena for my viewing pleasures, starting with the Jeff Hardy vs John Cena match up from 2008 to determine the number one contendership for the WWE Championship.
> 
> You know, as much as I can't stand Jeff, Looking back on it right now makes me realize that he really ups his in ring work for the main event scene, and I have to give him major props for that.


Jeff Hardy is the man. Get on the boat of his excellent babyface performances please. As a Triple H fan, you know already.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

As for your question MovieMent, It was 1998.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIJlFQVokGk


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If only the embedded video was clickable. :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

UGH.

Cena-Hardy wasn't long enough and left me wanting more, but knowing how things have turned out I know we'll never get more (at least for a really long time anyways). I don't like Jeff because I can't stand his persona (it was once on PYRO levels of hate to be honest) but I'll come out and say when his matches were great, they were AMAZINGLY GREAT (HHH, Punk, Umaga can all attest to this).

Anyways, going to finish off the 2008 BATCH of tv matches now so I'll have 2006-2012 done and maybe then I'll check out a few randoms but first I'll need somebody to comprise a top 10-20 Cena tags so that I don't have to watch all of them (I KNOW NWO 07 & EC 13 are going to be on there, no question about it) before I move on to the PPV BOUTS OMG.

CENA VS JBL ON RAW. THE GAME IS ON COMMENTARY.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Survivor Series 2011
Ziggler/Morrison - ***1/4
Really good opener despite the crowd mostly ignoring the match and wanting Ryder.

Eve/Beth - *1/2
Honestly not as bad as I expected. Nothing special but didn't drag on to bad.

Team Orton/Team Barrett - **1/2
Boy did this match drag. Nothing special here. So average, expected a lot more given some of the competitors in the match.

Show/Henry - ***
Thought this was a good big man match. I didn't mind the DQ finish much and the elbow drop before it was awesome.

ADR/Punk - ***1/2
Lots of limb work which is by no means a bad thing, I just kind of zoned out at times due to this. Really good match.

Rock and Cena/Awesome Truth - ***
This match had its problems most specifically the long heat segment. The times when the Rock was in where great. Awesome Truth were amazing dick head heels. The tension between Rock and Cena was done well.

Good show with a divas match and a long as hell/boring SS match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Never seen it myself i dont think.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think I may have underrated the Cena/Edge series due to some of their BAD PPV matches, as they have some really consistent and on point TV match chemistry as evidenced mainly by matches from 2008 and 2009. About to finish up the Edge/Cena TV series actually, SHALL POST STARZ LATER. I'll throw up the BIG SHOW series too for the hell of it, just to compare and contrast the two.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What's everyone's thoughts on Sheamus/Ziggler from No Way Out 2012?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on Sheamus/Ziggler from No Way Out 2012?


**3/4. I didn't really like it that much but it was an okay match overall. I was expecting it to be better than it was considering how well Ziggler and Sheamus work together.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I haven't seen in since it aired, but it's fantastic and I DESPERATELY need to buy that DVD as it's an awesome all around show despite the horse shit Tuxedo match nonsense. **** 3/4* for DOLPH and the GREAT WHITE. Thought it worked well as the match of 1000 sleeper holds :lol.

Punk-Bryan-Kane, Dolph-Sheamus, The Tag Division getting PPV time the way it SHOULD be used (TYSON KIDD), topped off with a big moment storyline wise and a good JOHN BOY - BIG SHOW CAGE.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok, thanks for the feedback. I haven't re-watched since it aired and can't recall too much of it so I'll give it a re-view now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Batista/Kennedy, Royal Rumble 2007:* ***1/4. After the ending of the horrendous feud with King Booker T, Batista really seemed to get his shit going. And while that, the World Title match quality will finally be consistently good (apart from one or two bad matches out here). You had the **** Triple Threat with Finlay and Booker to end 2006, and to kick off 2007 in great fashion, you have this one right here which is nothing short of REDEMPTION for their terrible match from TGAB 2006. Psychology is pretty damn awesome, with Kennedy applying a ton of submissions over Batista's injured leg, and 'Tista's selling is awesome as well. As a matter of fact, Batista's performance right here is Be A Face Who Doesn't Hulk Up And No Sell To Win But Rather Go Through The Pain And Fight His Way To Victory Like A Proper Babyface Should 101. One of Batista's best and most underrated performances. Kennedy looked very good here as well, and this was a pretty damn fine performance - one that brought myself even more love for this PPV. Royal Rumble '07 was terrific, I mean you mix this and the hot Hardys/MNM opener with CENA/UMAGA LAST MAN STANDING and the 2007 Rumble match which was amazing, and you got nothing short of a :mark: PPV.

*Batista/Kennedy, Smackdown 2/9/2007:* ***1/2. This was, I believe, the match that would've Main Evented No Way Out, hadn't been for the booking of that INSANE Tag of Batista/Taker vs. Cena/HBK. It wasn't better than that, but was still better than pretty much the entire card of No Way Out except for said Main Event. Psychology was, once again, pretty great, as Kennedy focused more on Batista's now injured arm, and once again, Batista's selling and fighting of the pain was terrific. He really grew a lot as a psychology applier and a seller throughout the year. Kennedy applied A LOT of submissions to torture that Animal, to make him feel how it's like to be a tamed beast, and Batista sold that pain as perfectly as they come. It had a big match feel because, as JBL sold the hell of in commentary, on the line wasn't just being the World Heavyweight Champion, but also Main Eventing WrestleMania, and Kennedy sold that with his desperation and his facials. Awesome TV gem.

*Batista/Taker, WrestleMania 23:* ****1/2. Finally, we reached the "big one", the original, the kickstart of arguably the greatest feud in the history of the World Heavyweight Championship. The two biggest names in Smackdown, and two of the three biggest names in the company at the time (alongside Cena, of course) collided at the biggest stage of 'em all. They say Savage/Steamboat 20 years before this one was a classic. I say this one has that one beat. Nobody ever expected these two to deliever such a fast paced, terrifically worked, hell of fun of a match, but here they did. You know it's awesome when the very 1st move applied in this match is a fucking SPEAR. Or when Batista hits a shoulder block from the top rope. Or when the entire Detroit crowd is on the edge of their seats for this excellent, excellent match. Batista never looked better in his entire career, and I think it's safe to say this is one of Undertaker's best as well, and Batista can be honored with that saying since giving a legend like Taker one of the best matches he ever had is a true achievement for anyone. This was simply AWESOME, and for fans of The Streak matches, an absolute must-watch. I'll admit, I liked Cena/HBK above it, but this was still amazing.

*NEXT:* Two more matches in the GOAT WHC saga, and the big gold belt goes Rated R...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching the ONE match that I skipped over because I wanted to watch it in perfect DVD quality when I got back home and the time is here ; Cena vs HBK in DA UNITED KINGDOM.

:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching the ONE match that I skipped over because I wanted to watch it in perfect DVD quality when I got back home and the time is here ; Cena vs HBK in DA UNITED KINGDOM.
> 
> :mark: :mark: :mark:


I still never watched that match lol, does it include commercials (i do own it a couple of DVD's i think, one HBK one).


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ziggler/Sheamus held up pretty well. Ziggler aiming all his offense at the neck of Sheamus with sleeper holds, neckbreakers etc is excellent psychology and basically just trying to wear that part of the body down for the Zig-Zag. A great spot off the top rope too with an X-Factor of sorts too. Sheamus getting wise to Dolphs's treatment of the neck is good and him finally countering a sleeper into the White Noise and following that up with the Brogue Kick is a good ending. These two have great chemistry and I'd happily see them in another feud down the line. I'll give it ***1/2, down 1/4 from what I thought on first view.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I really need to give Batista/Taker WM 23 a re-watch at some point, hopefully today lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I need to give both a rewatch, but i _think_ i enjoy the Cyber Sunday match a tad more, but the WM23 bout is of course classic and an easy ****1/2, i just really enjoy the CS one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

@Zep81.

Watching the HBK-Cena match on 'Heartbreak & Triumph' ATM and the action during commercial breaks is NOT included, and TBH I don't know where you can find the full match IF you even can but I'm going to come out right now and say something that 99 percent of wrestling fans will not agree with but fuck it, it's my opinion and I don't really give a fuck.

John Cena is Shawn Michaels' second greatest opponent ever next to The Undertaker, with Chris Jericho being the only person who even comes close. When factoring in opponents who have at least 5 singles matches worked together, that is indeed the case for sure. The same goes vice versa outside of Cena-CM Punk in all honesty, as Shawn and John have some insane chemistry as evidenced by their EPIC pair of 2007 matches, their one off AWESOME TV match in 2008, to their AWESOME pair of TV matches in 2009, they're just fantastic together and I'd take Cena/HBK over the likes of HBK/Angle, HBK/Bret (By FAR), HBK/Orton (By FAR), HBK/HHH (BY FAR), with AGAIN HBK/Jericho being the only tandem that even comes close in my mind. They're so dead even in fact that I couldn't even argue somebody saying Jericho/HBK was second, it's just that personal preference barely puts HBK/Cena ahead and the fact that I have their WORST match at **** 3/4*.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> @Zep81.
> 
> Watching the HBK-Cena match on 'Heartbreak & Triumph' ATM and the action during commercial breaks is NOT included, and TBH I don't know where you can find the full match IF you even can but I'm going to come out right now and say something that 99 percent of wrestling fans will not agree with but fuck it, it's my opinion and I don't really give a fuck.


Thx mate, i did read from another member that the match only exists with commercials  You'd think WWE would release it in full, yeah that is the DVD i have it on too plus a Live In The UK one aswell i think..


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd have HBK/Orton and HBK/Cena on par in terms of chemistry and match quality. The latter have always been good together from their first match in 2005 to their more known encounters afterwards and the former has never been anything less than stellar whether on TV, tag team matches or PPV (SPECIALLY Survivor Series).

And now I'm finally at the next PPV (Great American Bash 06), Finlay/Lashley had a lengthy match on the go home show and it was good. Now it's finally PPV time!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think ill re-watch Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 2007) and HBK/Cena vs Taker/Batista (No Way Out 2007) in a bit :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know about that one.

HBK/Orton have had TEN singles matches together and I highly, highly doubt they match the consistent **** 3/4+* quality of HBK/Cena with the one OMFG STANDOUT match being the Wrestlemania XXIII encounter (or the RAW 2007 encounter, depending on personal tastes). I mean, I've seen a good number of HBK/Orton matches and I can clearly tell you that the JD 07, CS 07, UNF 03, and a good few TV matches are great (besides JD, that's an angle not a real match in all honesty so I won't rate it like one) but not equal to Cena and HBK's WORST match together. I'm pretty sure that only one HBK/Orton match has reached the four star mark, that being the awesomely AWESOME Survivor Series 2007 match, but they stayed consistently at the **** - *** 1/2* mark where as Cena/HBK stays at the **** 3/4 +* mark.

That's all my opinion though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't know about that one.
> 
> HBK/Orton have had TEN singles matches together and I highly, highly doubt they match the consistent **** 3/4+* quality of HBK/Cena with the one OMFG STANDOUT match being the Wrestlemania XXIII encounter (or the RAW 2007 encounter, depending on personal tastes). I mean, I've seen a good number of HBK/Orton matches and I can clearly tell you that the JD 07, CS 07, UNF 03, and a good few TV matches are great (besides JD, that's an angle not a real match in all honesty so I won't rate it like one) but not equal to Cena and HBK's WORST match together. I'm pretty sure that only one HBK/Orton match has reached the four star mark, that being the awesomely AWESOME Survivor Series 2007 match, but they stayed consistently at the **** - *** 1/2* mark where as Cena/HBK stays at the **** 3/4 +* mark.
> 
> That's all my opinion though.


Well, that's the benefit of wrestling each other less times. Taker/HBK wouldn't have been as special if they had had 15 matches with each other includes a bunch of throwaway TV matches that go 5-10 minutes and end in DQ.

I have Cyber Sunday at ★★★★ and SVS at ★★★★¼. I give the Raw 07 match between Cena/HBK ★★★★½, though. So that supports your case.

You may be right that Cena/HBK is a better match-up but not "BY FAR" like you claimed. And I really need to refresh my memories for all the TV matches HBK and Orton have had.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

KOK, can you recommend me some fun Cena TV matches, and those in the ***+ would be great, I need some more CENA in my life

:cena3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Top 25 Rivalries cover art: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-top-25-rivalries-dvd-cover/37901/

Can't complain.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_HBK/Cena vs Batista/Taker_ NWO 2007 - ****1/4 - I fucking love this match, Taker at this time was IMHO at the peak of his powers, some great exchanges with him and HBK and indeed Cena. not a clean ending obviously because of the upcoming Mania matches, excellent.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Top 25 Rivalries cover art: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-top-25-rivalries-dvd-cover/37901/
> 
> Can't complain.


I really like it.

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-top-25-rivalries-dvd/36838/ So this is the listing of the 25 in no particular order yet. Anybody want to share predictions as well as what you would rank these 25?

My list:

25. Von Erich’s vs. The Fabulous Freebirds
24. Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA
23. Tazz vs. Sabu
22. Bruiser Brody vs. Abdullah the Butcher
21. Randy Orton vs. Triple H
20. Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero
19. Verne Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkel
18. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
17. Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Dudley Boyz
16. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat
15. Mick Foley vs. Triple H
14. John Cena vs. Edge
13. Mankind vs. The Undertaker
12. The Undertaker vs. Kane
11. Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven
10. Triple H vs. The Rock
9. CM Punk vs. John Cena
8. Hulk Hogan vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper
7. Dusty Rhodes vs. Ric Flair
6. Andre The Giant vs. Hulk Hogan
5. Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage
4. Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart
3. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock
2. Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
1. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Mr McMahon

EDIT: Oh, the rankings did come out. Looks like I'm behind. Oh well, I'll try out what I would rank them then..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's everyone's thoughts on Sheamus/Ziggler from No Way Out 2012?


***1/2 - Strong showing from both per usual. It's one of their better matches. The benefit of earning 15 minutes on a PPV helped. Crowd was hot for it as you know from watching. Decided to post my thoughts on it even though you just viewed it. For the sake of discussion and all that jazz.

Is that the list of the Rivalries? While Orton vs Trips making it is humorous, no Orton vs Cena is good. Almost felt as if WWE would find another way to plug that forced fed nonsense at us.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> ***1/2 - Strong showing from both per usual. It's one of their better matches. The benefit of earning 15 minutes on a PPV helped. Crowd was hot for it as you know from watching. Decided to post my thoughts on it even though you just viewed it. For the sake of discussion and all that jazz.


That's cool. Agreed on the rating as you probably saw. The crowd was great, gotta love how they were chanting "Let's go Ziggler" and Lawler chimes in with "Look at this crowd, they're really behind Sheamus!" fpalm


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Quality CENA TV matches?

ANYTHING vs Punk (besides the Superstar of the Year Tournament Match from 2009)
ANYTHING vs HBK
vs Benjamin 05/06
vs The Miz 5/2/11
vs Mysterio 7/25/11
vs Daniel Bryan 8/6/12
vs ADR 9/3/12
vs RVD 5/26/06
vs Big Show 6/22/09
vs HHH 6/29/09
vs HHH 10/12/09
vs Chris Benoit 12/2/03 , 4/17/03
vs Big Show 11/18/03
vs Finlay 12/12/06
vs Edge 2/13/06 , 10/23/06, 12/18/06, 6/23/08
ANYTHING vs Undertaker

Should hold you over for now.

:cena3

EDIT: HA I remember that, FUCK JERRY LAWLER.

Cody, thoughts on Cena/HBK vs Orton/HBK ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Or sheesh. I know, right? Which begs the question of why he did it. Cena can have his mixed reaction plugged weekly. Moment Dolph gets chants over a face who is supposed to be over with 100% of fans, they sweep it under the rug. Lame.

You know how poor these Superstars during the summer of 2011 have been? Maryse is stealing the show just with her attitude. Next edition does have the first ever Gabriel vs Kidd match. Things could turn around before I know it. But then Natalya vs Fox III follows it and Alicia Fox may be the worst female wrestler the world has ever seen. So dammit.

EDIT ~ Cena/HBK vs Orton/HBK? do you mean Edge?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That's cool. Agreed on the rating as you probably saw. The crowd was great, gotta love how they were chanting "Let's go Ziggler" and Lawler chimes in with "Look at this crowd, they're really behind Sheamus!" fpalm


Favorite part of that match. :lmao

Although it was a rather good match.

Edit: Cover of the rivalries DVD looks great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The debate of which series is superior ; Cena/HBK or Orton/HBK.

Always thought JOHN BOY was SHAWN BOY'S second greatest opponent ever next to THE UNDERTAKER.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

****3/4* for Ziggler/Sheamus from No Way Out. MOTN. I loved that the crowd were more behind Ziggler than Sheamus in that match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd probably go Cena/HBK over Orton/HBK but the SS '07 match from Orton and Shawn is right up there with the best Cena/HBK match (WM, imo).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Michaels wins.

Orton vs Michaels had some good matches. Cena had stronger outings vs Shawn. WM & RAW in England is all they needed. Having their quality matches on RAW in 2009 was simply the icing on the cake.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena/HBK over Orton/HBK for me too. That Raw match in the UK pushes Cena/HBK to the top.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So what do you think?

Taker, Cena, Jericho.... Shawn's best opponents?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker. It was held off and saved for the special occasions to kill it every time. Magical, really.

Other two are fabulous second place contenders. Open for interchangeable selection, yet I'd probably put Jericho before Cena. 2008 work put their program over the top. Specifically the ladder match from No Mercy.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HBK's best opponents in all the matches I've seen:

1) Taker
2) Jericho
3) Austin (I have a compilation with a number of HBK/Austin house show matches that are up there with KOTR and WM14. Even better, in some cases. Electric stuff. Also, WM14 would have been better if not for the back injury)
4)Cena
5) Owen
6) Bulldog

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Out of the three mentioned:

1. Taker
2. Jericho
3. Cena


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn vs Owen has vs Smith trumped by a solid margin, imo. Has Austin beat too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> So what do you think?
> 
> Taker, Cena, Jericho.... Shawn's best opponents?


Throw Davey Boy Smith in there too IMHO


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Shawn vs Owen has vs Smith trumped by a solid margin, imo. Has Austin beat too.


Yeah, you're right. Not sure why I put Bulldog on top. If I had never seen those Austin house show matches, he would have been alittle further down the list for me. But the house show matches are good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Any RATINGZ for the HBK/Jericho series in 2008?

I've only seen TGAB (★★★½) and NM (★★★★) ladder match but need to catch up with their other matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll take your word for it on that. Guessing the house show matches were circa '96, eh?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I'll take your word for it on that. Guessing the house show matches were circa '96, eh?


Yeah, in the 96-97 range. Not 100% sure, but I think they even had some earlier in 1995 when he was still the "Ringmaster" that are some rare gems, too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Any RATINGZ for the HBK/Jericho series in 2008?
> 
> I've only seen TGAB (★★★½) and NM (★★★★) ladder match but need to catch up with their other matches.


I can't recall much of their stuff from that year, will have to catch up with it. But I'd definitely have the No Mercy ladder match at *****1/2*.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Judgment Day - ***3/4
GAB - ***3/4 (ridiculously intense)
SS segment - Awesome
Unsanctioned match - Can't remember
NM - ****1/2
LMS - Can't remember

HBK/Jericho series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Yeah, in the 96-97 range. Not 100% sure, but I think they even had some earlier in 1995 when he was still the "Ringmaster" that are some rare gems, too.


Radical. (Y)

Jericho vs Michaels series:

Judgment Day 2008 - idk
Great American Bash 2008 - ****
Unforgiven - ****
No Mercy - *****
RAW Last Man Standing - ***1/2

Great stuff. All the segments were tremendous too. Jericho was so on point.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rivalries DVD cover looks pretty cool. I'm wondering what the format of the documentary is going to be. Sit down interviews with those involved and others giving opinions or just a voice over run down of the particular rivalry before running on to the match itself.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Just watched WM 25 for the lols

MITB ***3/4
Diva shit - dud
Jericho V The Senior Citizens - ** 
Jeff V Matt - ***
Rey V JBL - dud
HBK V Undertaker *****
Cena V Edge V Big Show ***1/4
Orton V HHH **1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can someone give me their thoughts on the Edge vs Batista '07 series?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I seriously dislike WM 25, maybe it's because i still remember watching it live and just being very disappointed, except for HBK/Taker obvs.

MITB **1/2
Divas - DUD
Jericho/Legends - **3/4 (STEAMBOAT :mark
Hardy/Hardy - **1/2
Mysterio/JBL - DUD
Taker/HBK - *****
Cena/Edge/Show - **
Orton/Game **


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

ATF said:


> Can someone give me their thoughts on the Edge vs Batista '07 series?


The Last Chance match at Vengeance (I think) is the best of the lot IMO. Some will hate the ending but I love it. 

Judgment Day - **1/2
One Night Stand (Cage Match) - **3/4
Vengeance - ***3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've only seen the Smackdown 29/6/2007 match between Edge and Batista from their 07 series. That one gets ★★★¼. Gotta give both props for putting on such a good match. Edge clearly did not feel very good after the Benoit tragedy and you can see it in his face.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Does anybody even know why they booked Rey/JBL the way they did for Mania 25? It's like...I don't see a reason for doing that other than pure fuckery. JBL gets shat on and Rey gets counted out of a memorable or somewhat memorable title win/Mania moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

People are being much too generous with their thoughts on HHH vs Orton. It wasn't far away from a DUD. Ironic too. I actually don't mind WM 25 and yet I seem to hate the main event the most.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Does anybody even know why they booked Rey/JBL the way they did for Mania 25? It's like...I don't see a reason for doing that other than pure fuckery. JBL gets shat on and Rey gets counted out of a memorable or somewhat memorable title win/Mania moment.


JBL had a bad back and couldn't wrestle a full match. That's what he said and I take his word for it.



HayleySabin said:


> People are being much too generous with their thoughts on HHH vs Orton. It wasn't far away from a DUD. Ironic too. I actually don't mind WM 25 and yet I seem to hate the main event the most.


It's very boring but I wouldn't go as far as DUD. I'd give it ★★¼. It's just missing the intensity of their feud and has a dead crowd. That ruins the match quite a bit but it's not as horrible as some say. I can understand it because of the disappointment, though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Does anybody even know why they booked Rey/JBL the way they did for Mania 25? It's like...I don't see a reason for doing that other than pure fuckery. JBL gets shat on and Rey gets counted out of a memorable or somewhat memorable title win/Mania moment.


No idea. I always thought JBL might have been injured slightly. A shame because I remember thinking that match would be ok, plus Rey's attire that night was awesome. (Joker :mark


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Every match that goes less than a minute at Wrestlemania is a joke. Sheamus squashing Daniel Bryan was the worst, completely devalued the WHC.. The WWE trying to completely bury Bryan at Wrestlemania was very disrespectful and I could not of been happier went entirely the other way with Bryan having a fantastic year while Sheamus was treading the line between fans liking him and fans seeing him as John Cena. If they gave them 20 minutes it would of been MOTYC just like at Extreme Rules.

As for JBL v Mysterio going less than a minute, was another awful decision. As JBL's last Wrestlemania he deserved to go out on a match with some time behind it. And it was Mysterios first Wrestlemania since he won the WHC at WM22, so I'm sure he loved not being able to put on a 10 minute match on his long awaited return to the 'grandest stage of them all'.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> No idea. I always thought JBL might have been injured slightly. A shame because I remember thinking that match would be ok, plus Rey's attire that night was awesome. (Joker :mark


JR's comment ("Rey's career is alive and well") and then that awful awkward silence after :argh:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE did it b/c they like having a short match at WrestleMania. Story was released like the day after. It was planned from the start to be a jip level affair. WWE and their unknown desire to have one match at WM uber short. I'll never understand it. I prepare for it every time. Last year I thought it was going to be Show vs Rhodes via the way it was built, only to be pissed when it came at the expense of Sheamus vs Danielson.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Hopefully this year it'll be Barrett/Miz. 

Max 1 minute plz.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> JR's comment ("Rey's career is alive and well") and then that awful awkward silence after :argh:


Haha. And if we have another >1 minute match then please let it be Barrett/Miz. I don't think anyone on this whole forum is excited for that one.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Ole Anderson vs Ricky Morton. Worldwide October 11 1986
About a week ago, I wanted to see this match after their Great American Bash tour tag match between the Wrecking Crew & RnR Ex. They worked so well together when they were the men in the ring. Ole just the vicious psychopath he is, up against the ever-great Ricky Morton. So, 3 months later, it finally happened after the Andersons took out Gibson at a house show. They wanted to take down Morton now, and eventually Dusty Rhodes, Magnum T.A, Ronnie Garvin.

The match starts as it should, focusing on prior injuries both men have taken. Ricky's fighting spirit is just fantastic, gets the crowd invested. Arn's antics on the outside are great, but he doesn't get physically involved, except the one sneaky punch here 'n'n there. Ole is just so vicious, he is just one of those guys who doesn't act it, you know he is just that type of person. The offence from him, the stomps, throws into the turnbuckle, the elbow, the axe handle all on Morton. Ricky going eye for an eye, move for a move in his fightbacks is a sweet touch. The determination in his face, the selling, his punches. Two men who just don't like each other, doing what you'd want them to do. The match ends as expected, Arn gets involved after Ricky almost gets the pin. But, it doesn't end there. What a brainbuster by Arn, Dusty runs in, but they don't hesistate, Out comes Blanchard, and Dusty is trapped. Arn gouging away at Morton despite Ole & Tully on Dusty is one of those random, memorable things. Eventually Magnum & Garvin arrive, and that's that over.
Great match, great story progression after the match. Just great. ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Have a feeling it could be Del Rio vs Swagger thanks to Swagger's royal screw up.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I definitely think the short match this year will be the 8 person tag, with probably the wrong team going over, but ehh, kid demographic I guess

Also, someone for the love of god send me a link for the Danielson/Cena match from August, I have never seen it and I can never find it anywhere, I can find Punk/Mysterio from the same fucking RAW but no Cena/DBD, it really pisses me off, but yea, I gotta see dat match during my Best of RAW '12 viewing for DAT list


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I just found it surprising that they would do that to JBL and Mysterio of all people who have more than earned their stripes. I can sort of get why they might have thought it was OK to do it to Seamus/Bryan but you would think that JBL and Mysterio would both have enough clout to stop something like that from happening. I guess the JBL injury story makes more sense. 

Mysterio's outfit that year awe awesome. He's been the Joker, Avatar and Captain America. I wonder what he'll be this year. Wait, he doesn't even have a match, right?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> I definitely think the short match this year will be the 8 person tag, with probably the wrong team going over, but ehh, kid demographic I guess
> 
> Also, someone for the love of god send me a link for the Danielson/Cena match from August, I have never seen it and I can never find it anywhere, I can find Punk/Mysterio from the same fucking RAW but no Cena/DBD, it really pisses me off, but yea, I gotta see dat match during my Best of RAW '12 viewing for DAT list


 




Just the second part. They also had a match on Velocity.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

If Cena wins the title at 'Mania (what am I saying 'if'?) then I'd love to see him feud with Bryan over it. Given good time on PPVs they could have some classics.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> Guys, I need help tracking down these TV matches, all from 2012, any help would be appreciated!
> 
> *RAW*
> Cena vs Bryan ~ 8/6
> ...


Also thought I would put this here again, any of these matches will be awesome, I italicized the matches I have found, but I would love some of these other ones, 2012 was such a great year for TV that at least some of these will make the nominations list, thanks in advance


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Hopefully this year it'll be Barrett/Miz.
> 
> Max 1 minute plz.


If Wrestlemania 27 is anything to go by, they'll get 20 minutes, and more deserving matches will get 5.


> Can someone give me their thoughts on the Edge vs Batista '07 series?


I recall liking their cage match, and the one at... Judgement Day iirc?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Found this little gem earlier today and gave it a look:




A really fun Triple Threat match with Eddie picking up the win. It showed just how solid the mid-card division on Smackdown back in 2003 really was. Rating: *****.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Damn, I remember nothing about that Edge/Batista series other than it happening.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Damn, I remember nothing about that Edge/Batista series other than it happening.


Well that's a hell of a lot more than me. I don't remember it ever happening!


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Missed the Orton/HBK discussion a few pages back but a lot of people forget their Unforgiven 2003 match which is an easy ***3/4 from me. Great psychology with Orton working on the shoulder of HBK and of course, HBK is great with the "Face in peril" role. Cheap win for Orton, but a damn good showing in his first one on one PPV match EVER.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

All the Edge/Batista matches were fairly good in 2007 imo. However their match at NOC 2008 was great:

2007:
JD- **3/4
ONS- ***1/4
Vengeance- ***1/4

2008:
NOC- ***3/4


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Anyone catch the Show/Sheamus/Orton vs Scholars/Cesaro tonight? I thought it was a very sold affair and I really enjoyed it, definitely a ***1/4, but I may be alone on that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels vs Orton Unforgiven 2003 is good. Far from great, though. Enjoyable contest.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

@Tanner: might have to check it out. Haven't seen anybody pimping any WWE matches since Cena/Punk.

Is Mania next weekend? I feel like it's taking forever to get here.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> @Tanner: might have to check it out. Haven't seen anybody pimping any WWE matches since Cena/Punk.
> 
> *Is Mania next weekend? I feel like it's taking forever to get here.*


Just doesn't feel like it at all. 

HBK/Orton from Unforgiven is a nice match. Not great, but Orton was a good young heel and he's got Flair with him (Naitch gonna Naitch). Nice kick out of the RKO after Orton took some time to cover. I actually like the finish. Nice way to get Orton over, and HBK doesn't look weak.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Really good back-and-forth match this was for the Cruiserweight title. The finish was a little overbooked but it served it's purpose and went with the story they were telling which was Tajiri trying to find a way to use the mist on Mysterio to pick up the win. Rating: ****1/2*.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*Unforgiven 2003 Review*










The Dudley Boyz vs. La' Resistance (With Rob Conway) (for the World Tag Team Championships) - Tables Match *(**3/4)* (Hilariously fun little opener)

Test vs. Scoot Stenier *(**)* (Meh, their Bad Blood match was better) 

Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michales *(***1/2)* (Great first match between the two, Although a little sloppy)

Trish Stratus & Lita vs. Gail Kim & Molly Holly *(**3/4)* (A decent return tag match for Lita, She gets some huge pops too. She even gets busted open and starts bleeding from the mouth heavily and still continues with the match)

Kane vs. Shane McMahon *(****)* (An amazing LMS match and one of the GOAT matches of the stipulation)

RVD vs. Chris Jericho vs. Christian *(***1/4)* (A fun three-way fight for the IC title, RVD was on his A game in his match)

Al Snow & Coach vs. J.R and Jerry "The King" Lawler (for the spot of the broadcast team on RAW) *(*)* (Would have been a DUD but i got to see JR fight, So 1 star is rewarded)

Triple H vs. Goldberg (for the WHC) *(**1/4)* (At least above their Survivor Series crap)​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

STUPID EVAN HAS NO WEED AND WISHES HE WAS HIGH.

Anyways, we're getting closer and closer to Cena regaining the belt which will probably lead to me partying so hard that entire week that I'll fail to study for my exams or I'll overdose or some shit like that. If JOHN BOY manages to get three stars out of The Roid, I hope you mother fuckers are ready to bow to the throne because that would be almost as impressive as Cena dragging that awesome match out of Khali @ Judgment Day 2007 (they had another few good ones as well, Cena DA BOSS). 

The reaction from that crowd when Cena holds that belt high is going to be one of the greatest moments in company history and one of my all time favorite moments in general. Going to be perhaps the most emotional night in WWE history for me when coupled with the potential of a GAME retirement.

:cena3


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> So what do you think?
> 
> Taker, Cena, Jericho.... Shawn's best opponents?


:HHH

My real answer - three five star classics, the chaotic Ground Zero 97 fight, and the Casket Match at Royal Rumble 98, and the showdown in the final two at Royal Rumble 2007. All that needs to be said.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOAT WWF/WWE Chemistry. 

Only thing that ever came close ; Hart-Austin.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Since when the heck did KOK become this big Cena mark? Seriously, when did you? It's like you went from big Trips mark to biggest Cena mark overnight.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

sharkboy22 said:


> Since when the heck did KOK become this big Cena mark? Seriously, when did you? It's like you went from big Trips mark to biggest Cena mark overnight.


I think he snapped after Rock won the title and has been championing Cena since then.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Since Clique brought up the Taker/HBK ending to the Rumble, what would you guys say your favorite ending to a Rumble is? I'd actually have to go with the Taker/HBK one myself. Watching it live I legitimately had no idea who was winning and they actually worked a damn good match while still incorporating elimination attempts.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The ending to the Royal Rumble 2004 is one of my faves but nothing beats 2007.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

RR 2011

Was shocked when ADR got hit with the cobra, and by Santino's elimination but it did give me a laugh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2007 takes the cake. It was one of the few I saw live. Seeing Undertaker win when I felt Shawn was such a lock got a massive reaction from me. A close second would have to be Austin's win from 1998. Stuns Rock, Rock sells is well, & get tossed out of the ring to which he sells even better by flying half way up the entrance. Forever embedded into my mind.

Despite how much I love to watch Mysterio, his win in 2006 would probably have to be my least favorite ending. bs underdog crap with the Eddie overtones. Bleh. Feed it to someone who wanted to eat up that crap. I didn't. At the expense of Orton during the peak of my Orton fandom leaves a taint in my mouth coupled with the gripes I mentioned.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

bme said:


> I think he snapped after Rock won the title and has been championing Cena since then.


:lmao

Rock winning the title can make a man snap. I find it strange, Rock as WWE champ. At the Rumble and EC, I would say Punk had an equal amount of supporters if not more than Rock. So, there's obviously a large percentage of the WWE Universe that resents Rock as champ, right? Then why the hell are they not making their voices heard for the match with Cena. I know it's because it's Cena but I rather have the WWE champ on RAW each week than every 2-3 weeks. I actually forgot that the title was re-designed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c they cheered in favor of the Punker more than at the expense of The Rock. Not to mention the leaning of build towards having Rock the more clear cut face of the two heading into WM.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

2004. Taker/HBK may have had the best action, but the way Benoit won was perfect. He entered at #1 and lasted all the way to the end. The only obstacle in his way was eliminating a 500lb giant. Benoit = GOAT ring psychologist 

*"BENOIT! BENOIT HAS DONE IT!"*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a heck of a moment no doubt. Probably would rank in a top five perspective for me. I know Flair's championship win has it beat. So by the process of elimination and going by the facts, I'll slate it at number four. I'm off ranking Rumble finishes outside of my absolute favorite. I must be bored atm.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wouldn't say he's a GOAT psychologist. There's a few people I'd put over Benoit. He has a style that meshes really well with the likes of Finlay or Regal but at the same time he can deliver the WWE style match with just about any one. He's an all-rounded in-ring worker, that's for sure. 

There's a misconception that goes around about Benoit though and that's that he's a big workrate guy. He's not. Benoit knows how to incorporate hard hitting and submissions and high spots and all that good stuff into th story of a match. As a matter of fact every Benoit match has the same German suplex, snap suplex, diving head butt and cross face. He's not the 1000 moves a match guy that a lot of people make him out to be. I don't know why he's considered a rate tank.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

the cena comrback from his shoulder surgery was pretty cool.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit not about workrate? what

guy was the definition of hard worker.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

2004 Rumble ending is pretty nice. The Trips mark in me of course goes for 2002.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> I wouldn't say he's a GOAT psychologist. There's a few people I'd put over Benoit. He has a style that meshes really well with the likes of Finlay or Regal but at the same time he can deliver the WWE style match with just about any one. He's an all-rounded in-ring worker, that's for sure.
> 
> There's a misconception that goes around about Benoit though and that's that he's a big workrate guy. He's not. Benoit knows how to incorporate hard hitting and submissions and high spots and all that good stuff into th story of a match. As a matter of fact every Benoit match has the same German suplex, snap suplex, diving head butt and cross face. He's not the 1000 moves a match guy that a lot of people make him out to be. I don't know why he's considered a rate tank.


Using this definition of workrate, which I do believe is the right one, most WWE wrestlers don't have a great workrate. That includes the likes of Taker, HBK, Bret, HHH, etc.

This would mean that an indy wrestler has a higher work rate than all big name superstars.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Isn't fair to judge. Indie workers don't have limitations and/or reasons to hold back b/c of their less frequent schedule. They show up, pump what they want into that night (or weekend) and move on. WWE is boom, boom, boom nearly every day for months. It's why they're forced to hold back more often. Out of not letting the workers fizzle. Which by no means does it lean into the territory of WWE wrestlers ever phoning it in. That's not what I am driving it. For the sake of what was mentioned about WWE & Indie workrate: It's two different aspects.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Isn't fair to judge. Indie workers don't have limitations and/or reasons to hold back b/c of their less frequent schedule. They show up, pump what they want into that night (or weekend) and move on. WWE is boom, boom, boom nearly every day for months. It's why they're forced to hold back more often. Out of not letting the workers fizzle.* Which by no means does it lean into the territory of WWE wrestlers ever phoning it in*. That's not what I am driving it. For the sake of what was mentioned about WWE & Indie workrate: It's two different aspects.


rton2 rton2 rton2

I was just thinking about this since I've sat down and watched the matches ; who is Cena's worst main event opponent ever? WELL TBH, it would have to be DOLPH sadly. The ladder match at TLC was MEH and contrived at best while the rest of their TV matches especially those in 2013 were complete and utter fucking trash... It makes no sense why two quality workers would have such horrendous chemistry together, it honestly makes no fucking sense what so ever. 

I mean, I think Orton is a terrible opponent for Cena but on the big stage they actually deliver half the time IMO. Dolph-Cena is just a bunch of TRASH.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Has there ever been a 5 star or even 4 star divas match in the WWE?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK NO.

I have Trish-Mickie @ NYR and WM XXII both @ **** 1/2*, but that's about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> rton2 rton2 rton2
> 
> I was just thinking about this since I've sat down and watched the matches ; who is Cena's worst main event opponent ever? WELL TBH, it would have to be DOLPH sadly. The ladder match at TLC was MEH and contrived at best while the rest of their TV matches especially those in 2013 were complete and utter fucking trash... It makes no sense why two quality workers would have such horrendous chemistry together, it honestly makes no fucking sense what so ever.
> 
> I mean, I think Orton is a terrible opponent for Cena but on the big stage they actually deliver half the time IMO. Dolph-Cena is just a bunch of TRASH.


Their matches from 2010 - 2012 prove their chemistry is fine. Only the ladder was underwhelming and the 2013 matches were horribly represented via piss-poor booking. Realized you only asked in terms of main events, so now I get what you mean. 3 "main events" and two were flat out bad. Not the best curve.

Cena's worst opponent overall is Booker T in a landslide. Those two had zero chemistry.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Has there ever been a 5 star or even 4 star divas match in the WWE?


Alundra Blayze vs Bull Nakano from RAW circa '95 is quite awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know, Cena and Orlando Jordan had some preeeeety bad matches :lol

I mean, after Cena became a main eventer (THE GUY), who would you consider to be his worst main event opponent?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't know, Cena and Orlando Jordan had some preeeeety bad matches :lol
> 
> I mean, after Cena became a main eventer (THE GUY), who would you consider to be his worst main event opponent?


The Miz?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WAIT.

HOW THE FUCK DID I FORGET THE MIZ.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Miz 5/2/11 > Cena vs Dolph in any main event capacity so far.

I think KOK was right on his first claim.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm still dumbfounded as to how on earth that JIZ match was so great. It just doesn't make any logical sense why on THAT night at THAT time they decided to go out and have a great match when they've had SO MANY fucking matches before and even after and never managed to even come close to that greatness.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I just wanted to point out some ironic PPV placement of the Brock/Cena matches. Both of their matches took place on the PPV right after Wrestlemania, Backlash 2003 and Extreme Rules 2012.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Miz have a bad habit of doing that. It was done all the way back in 2009 too. The RAW following The Bash those two have a thirteen minute match - ten minutes shown via TV - and it was pretty darn good. Exactly what it should have been on the PPV. Only, we got the opposite. Cena vs Miz on PPV blows. When they work on TV, it can be good on occasion. Who knows why in the hell that is.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I REALLY ADORE THAT BROCK-CENA MATCH.

It's so fucking stiff at times, especially for a CENA match. Chris Masters once said in an interview that John Cena is one of the stiffest workers he has ever been in the ring with though (and it wasn't even in an insulting manner) so take that for what it's worth. That's why I adore Cena-Finlay so much ; take John Boy and plug him into a Finlay kind of match and he just fits ; Cena meshes well with practically every style from Khali to Mysterio.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Most Ziggler/Cena matches, both on PPV and TV seem to have long periods of bais control segments by Cena. Occupy that with Ziggler's magnificent selling, It makes him look really weak. I hate that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

STARTING CENA PPV MATCHES TOMORROW WHEN I WAKE UP.

CAN'T FUCKING WAIT. GOD DAMN. 

Watching BROCK VS CENA First, pretty sure I have it close to four stars which is higher than anybody else has it :mark: :mark:.

:cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash '03? It starts off well. Then Cena locks on the headlock body vice and the match dies. Flow, pacing, crowd, interest. It all falls away when both are lying on the mat for about three minutes. It's disappointing the match takes such a dip.

**1/2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

If your going by PPV matches, Shouldn't you watch his match with Jericho at Vengeance 2002 considering that was his first.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Anyone got thoughts on Team Angle vs. Team Lesnar @ Survivor Series 2003. 

I haven't seen it in a while, remember it being a fun match with Holly being DQ'd before it began and some other happenings. It just gets overlooked and forgotten about because of the Austin/Bischoff Survivor Series match later on in the show that was epic as fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been busy last few days, but WM 19 (aka GOAT WM) review is in my blog, and WM XX will be posted in about 12 minutes automatically .


----------



## Bubzeh (May 25, 2011)

Just ordered 12 new PVP DVD's to add to THE COLLECTION!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I can't believe Cal gave a * for The Evolution vs. Rock 'N' Sock Connection match at WM20, It was fun, exhilarating and a great filler. It's at least a **1/2 match in my book.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal's Mania reviews has inspired me to later watch WM19 for the first time in a good few years, always great watching an event that you havnt seen in a good while.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I remember the first time I saw Taker live. It was a house show (1991ish) and the main event was Warrior/Taker in a body bag match. Taker coming out live then (still I bet) was so badass. Warrior won (of course) but the show ended with Taker sitting up in the body bag. Bret and Perfect had a great match as well if memory serves. I'm about 4th grade or so at this point so like 10.

The only ppv I have ever been to live was In Your House Good Friends Better Enemies. Pretty awesome I saw such classic match like HBK/Nash live. God I hated Nash back then. It also happened to be Razor Ramon's last match in WWF losing to Vader. Also Austin, HHH, Owen, Bulldog, Jake Roberts. Also Warrior haha. I was in HS at this point so I remember most of it. Taker and Mankind wrestled but it was a dark match. For as up and down as WWF was in 96 that was actually a really fun PPV. I look for this PPV all the time on VHS but it's usually like $75-100. Uhhhhhh no thanks. 

I was actually at a couple Saturday Nights Main Events too. I saw the Hogan/Bossman cage match live. Got to see Zeus. Also a few matches that made the best of SNME set. Bret Hart V Ted DiBiase (amazing) which was interesting because it was in Omaha where DiBiase is from and he got a good amount of pops. Also Perfect V Tito Santana. Ahhhh memories. 

Can Deebo please go in the HOF? It's DEEBO!!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I remember the first time I saw Taker live. It was a house show (1991ish) and the main event was Warrior/Taker in body bag. Taker coming out live then (still I bet) was so badass. Warrior won (of course) but the show ended with Taker sitting up in the body bag. Bret and Perfect had a great match as well if memory serves. I'm about 4th grade or so at this point so like 10.


Your so lucky, I've never been to a live televised WWE PPV. I have been to a few house shows though, none of which had my favorite wrestler Undertaker appearing.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Your so lucky, I've never been to a live televised WWE PPV. I have been to a few house shows though, none of which had my favorite wrestler Undertaker appearing.



Nah just an old fuck haha. Some of my favorite memories are seeing Savage growing up though. I saw him wrestle DiBiase, Dusty Rhodes and Warrior (in the mother fuckin BLUE cage :mark live. I believe Rick Martel and like Repo Man (might be wrong) at house shows after this comeback. Such a showman, such a badass and without getting to deep (its pro wrestling) such an artist. It is an art form in every sense of the word I think. He was one of the few (Rick Rude being the other main guy) who could get a good match out of Warrior which proves his greatness lol. 

A cool moment I saw as a kid was I saw Andre when he was fueding with Warrior. The match itself was shit (Warrior won in like 10 seconds) but seeing Andre was insane. He was maybe 10 feet from me when he walked to the ring. As big as he was seeing him in real life.....for fucks sake. What a legend. My Mom loved it because she loves (as do I) Princess Bride. I dont think Fred Savage was in the building that night. 

I actually met Sting and DiBiase at a signing as a kid. Both are from Omaha, NE which close to where I live/grew up. Both were really cool.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I remember the first time I saw Taker live. It was a house show (1991ish) and the main event was Warrior/Taker in a body bag match.


Yeah i still remember the bodybag match happening at MSG, shame we never really got a payoff, or even a continuation of the Warrior/Taker feud.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Miz vs. Morrison from BR 09 :mark: Just watched it for the first time, loved it, top five Miz singles match. Anybody got any thoughts on it?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The only good Cena/Miz match is the one RAW the night of Rocka-birthday-mania. 

But Cena/Ziggler had one hell of a match on RAW in 2010 as well. I believe it was the night after TLC.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I mean, after Cena became a main eventer (THE GUY), who would you consider to be his worst main event opponent?


Khali? The Miz? 

Ziggler and Cena's matches weren't bad at all. Their ladder match gets ****3/4* from me and I've seen people rate it higher than that, and of course I've seen people rate it lower than that. Their TV matches weren't bad - but Cena being super Cena and kicking out of all his finishers and Langston's finisher in that one match, and generally making Ziggler look shit, took away from their matches. Wasn't to do with their chemistry.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 6th November 2000 - Triple H, Chyna, Billy Gunn & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko*

After the Radicalz reunited and attacked HHH after his match with Benoit on Smackdown, Triple H wanted revenge and re-formed DX for one night for an 8 man tag contest. Unfortunately, this match is very lackluster and HHH and Benoit don't even interact. There's some early exchanges between Billy Gunn and Eddie Guerrero, before Road Dogg is tagged in and is isolated for a while. The match never gets going and it ends when Triple H finally gets the tag for the first time, hits the Pedigree on Malenko and picks up the win. Kurt Angle comes down and attacks The Game before DX can really celebrate their win. Benoit barely involved either. Nothing of note at all about this one.

*DUD.*

That turned out to be the last Benoit and HHH would see of each other for a while, but now we jump ahead about 7 months where they are finally in the same ring again, for one of the greatest TV matches ever.

*Raw 21st May 2001 - Triple H & Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho (WWF Tag Team Championship)*

Obviously this is a famous match, Triple H tearing his quad, Benoit and Jericho winning the titles and the Two Man Power trip slowly dissolving. Let's see if it holds up.

Austin and Jericho start the match off with Austin stomping a mudhole in the corner. Jericho comes back with a cross body and some heavy chops. The crowd is up for this big time and are heavily on the underdogs side. Triple H gets the tag but Jericho is on a roll and knocks him down before Benoit and Jericho do the double team in the corner. Benoit is now in and he and Austin exchange some strikes before Benoit takes control with a hard knee to the gut, followed by a suplex. He then takes Austin to the top turnbuckle and hits a big time superplex, going for the cover but only getting two thanks to The Game breaking the count. Jericho complains and while the referee's back is turned the power trip take advantage and double team Benoit. Simply but effective heel work here, with Austin getting audible "Austin sucks" chants. Benoit fights back, knocking HHH off of the apron and locks Austin in the Crippler Crossface. The crowd goes nuts thinking Austin will tap, but HHH smashes Benoit over the back with a steel chair with the referee distracted. Austin goes for the cover but Benoit manages to kick out.

Austin, now looking visibly upset and angry, grounds Benoit and works on his abdomen. With the referees back turned, Triple H whips Benoit into the steel steps hard. The Power Trip isolate Benoit and hardly let him get any offense in, with Triple H especially working hard on Benoit's now weakened stomach area, with stiff kicks, shoulders in the corner and a painful looking abdominal stretch that Austin sneakily helps out with. Again, top heel work by both men. The crowd getting on their backs and Jericho visibly frustrated on the apron, and they just work on a specific area of Benoit and not letting him make the tag.

Benoit tries to come back but HHH locks him in a sleeper hold. Benoit begins to fade away but fights out of it and hits a German Suplex. He's about to make the tag but The Game stops him, before Benoit counters with an enziguri that HHH sells well and finally Jericho gets in. Or at least he thinks he does, but Hebner didn't see the tag. I always loved that moment in a tag match. The big face everyone wants in finally gets the tag, only for the ref not to see it. The crowd is in a frenzy now, and Austin takes advantage by dragging Benoit outside and going to town on him. 

Back in the ring, HHH hits a Pedigree on Benoit but Hebner is distracted again (how many times did he have his back turned to something in this match?!). Jericho goes up top and hits the missile dropkick. Finally Benoit makes a legal tag and Jericho comes in and cleans house. Austin goes for the Lou Thesz Press but Y2J counters brilliantly into the Walls of Jericho. Obviously this is the infamous moment when Triple H arrives to break it up and tears his quad. Watching this back you really wouldn't know he had something seriously wrong with him. I remember not finding out until the week after (and of course being heavily upset).

Of course, Triple H sets Y2J up for the Pedigree on the announcer's table, but Jericho counters it and puts him in the Walls. With a torn quad that must have been agony. Back in the ring, Benoit hits the flying headbutt and goes for the cover but Hebner is distracted _again_. Benoit is upset, turns his back for a second and Austin hits the stunner. Everyone thought it was over right here but Y2J drags the referee out of the ring to stop the count. Austin goes for the Stunner again, but Jericho counters into the Lionsault. Triple H arrives with the sledgehammer and aims for Jericho, who moves out of the way and Austin takes the full blow. Benoit spears HHH out of the ring and Jericho gets the pinfall and the underdogs have won the titles. The crowd goes nuts.

Fucking awesome match of course, always fun to watch again. The crowd was just on fire throughout and The Power Trip got awesome heat. Benoit and Jericho played the babyfaces really well and excellent commentary from J.R and Heyman about this match being the biggest of their careers. I always pick at the ending slightly because Benoit goes for the cover on Austin, and Austin goes for the cover on Benoit. Yet there's no more tags and then Jericho pins Austin? But it's a small complaint in an otherwise great match.

STARZ and opinions on this match?

*****1/2*

Because of Triple H's injury, and Benoit getting injured a few weeks later, this was the last time the two would meet in a match together for almost three years. Unbelievably, the next match they would compete in would be the Wrestlemania 20 main event. So that will be coming up in the next entry, along with a big 8 man tag match with the whole of Evolution involved.



Spoiler: So Far



*So Far:
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

What do people think of the John Morrison and CM Punk saga in 2007/2008?

I honestly loved their ongoing feud in all three brands, really enjoyed all of their matches, great stuff, kept me on the edge of my seat. 

The fifteen minutes of fame was epic in ECW. Plus a few others on that brand. 
They had a triple threat with Miz which was Miz's best match 
Plus a few on SmackDown which were above average. 

Really, really liked their work, am I the only one?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project*

*Taker/Batista, Backlash 2007:* ****1/4. One month after their instant classic at WrestleMania 23, these two put on yet another classic. A Last Man Standing match, and quite a great one. 2007 was the year of great matches of that kind (Cena/Umaga, HHH/Orton I, Angle/Styles in TNA, and this). The story here was that of two Goliaths who were fighting to be the last man standing, two of the biggest names in the company one on one in an all-out war essentially. And, well, the storytelling of such plot was brilliant, as these two completely exhausted their arsenal to put the other down. You had chairs, steps, tables, finisher trades, terrific psychology and selling, blood, and two awesome face performances. Batista, theorically, played the heel here, and there were moments were he acted as such, but that never really minded. This was a fun, fun wild ride, that had a little gem for everyone. It wasn't as hot or as fast paced or as well told and sold as the 'Mania match was, nor did it have a finish anywhere near as good, but it was still a great match of an amazing feud nonethless.

*Taker/Batista, Smackdown 5/11/2007:* ***3/4. Incredible how these two together turned potential shit into gold. This was a Steel Cage match contested on Smackdown over the big gold belt between these two, and while sometimes I can grow bored of multiple repeated duos really fast, the Batista vs. Taker feud is something I asked for more and more. Their chemistry was that damn superb. This right here didn't have the makings of anything special, as Taker had a leg injury (and quite a bad one). So, it was kept short, to the point and sweet, where Batista won the title back from Taker? Uhhh, no... It wasn't kept short (like 20 minutes), neither did Batista left with the World Title. But it was to the point and sweet. It isn't Taboo Tuesday 2004-like, since this one has its own aura, but once again a match benefitted from a leg injury and the difference in a viewer's head weather is Taker just selling his injured leg that damn brilliantly, or if its legit pain. This match may have been one of the last televised major bloodbath matches in its time (it isn't Flair/HHH-bad bloodbath but it's still quite gory). Pretty brutal, and another TV great gem overall.

*Taker/Edge, Smackdown 5/11/2007:* DUD. Even though the crowd reaction it garnered, this was nothing, really. This one stemmed from the Money In The Bank match at 'Mania 23, which Mr. Kennedy won. Kennedy had been vowing for weeks he'd cash in the briefcase at WM 24. But because of leg injury, the WWE creative booked him to hand over the briefcase to someone else. They gave it to Edge, which defeated him to win it. Then, the night of the cage match with Batista, Mark Henry mark returned to attack Taker, for which Edge afterwards came to pick the bones. In another words, this is a Money In The Bank cash-in match. What do you ya expect?

*Edge/Batista, Judgment Day 2007:* **1/4. It had pretty great psychology I'll admit that, but otherwise this match was average at the very best. That's all I can say. It wasn't what I was using myself to see from both men those past months. It was sloppy, it was dull, and a bit boring to be honest. Edge came in to Smackdown pretty damn hot, and it's like this match with 'Tista killed that hotness, even though he won. Their chemistry by the end of the match had grown better, but at least until the final 5 or 6 minutes it all didn't seem to click that much. And I wouldn't call this a Jericho vs. Ziggler case in that it doesn't click in the start but it gets way better as it goes. This is far below that. Not only that, but their Night Of Champions 2008 match was far superior. And as I've heard, their Vengeance 2007 match is also very good and way better too. Hopefully that is. Not a horrible match by any means, but I'd skip personally.

*NEXT:* A cage is lowered, a last chance is given, and an Animal is thrown over a top rope...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Morrisson/Punk ECW is the only one worth watching. The PPV bouts suck. CM Punk was still adjusting to the WWE Style and Morrisson was trying to be nothing but the flashy, athletic guy. time constraint is part of the reason why the PPV matches sucked but, as Punk mentioned on the DVD, trying to cram 15 minutes worth of wrestling in a 6 minute match is another reason.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker was meant to have a long WHC reign in 2007, It sucks that his bicep got injured at Backlash.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

- Favorite Royal Rumble moment is without a doubt 2004 when Benoit won it by eliminating the Big Show after spending 61 minutes in the ring.

- Cena's worst main event opponent is definitely Ziggler (if he counts), Khali and The Miz. With the former, their ladder match was shit and so were their rematches months ago, with Khali, nobody can carry him to anything above 3 stars and with The Miz, only good matches Cena had with him are the Extreme Rules three way and the rematch the next night.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)




----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WHC Match ratings for 2007:

Batista/Kennedy RR- **3/4
Batista/Kennedy SD- I have no recollection of this match even happening, let alone what happened.
Taker/Batista WM23- ****1/2 (MOTY)
Taker/Batista BL 07- ***3/4
Edge/Batista JD- **3/4
Edge/Batista ONS- ***1/4
Edge/Batista Vengeance- ***1/4
WHC Battle Royal- Completely forgot about this one until I saw ATF's hints for the next few matches and remembered this is where Khali won the belt.
Khali/Kane/Batista GAB- Again, completely forgot this match even happened, had to look up what the WHC match was for the PPV.
Batista/Khali SS- DUD
Batista/Rey/Khali Unforgiven- 1/2*
Batista/Khali NM- 1/2*
Taker/Batista CS- ****1/4
Taker/Batista SVS- ****
Taker/Edge/Batista Armageddon- ***1/2

Aside from Khali's involvement, it was a pretty fucking good year for the WHC scene.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Can y'all recommend me specific Nick Bockwinkel matches, please? I really need to see some more of his stuff. He was a great promo too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just watched a few random matches:

*Triple H vs Chris Jericho vs Matt Hardy - Smackdown 3rd October 2008:*

All three men were champions at the time, and this is a pretty solid TV main event. Hardy looked a bit out of place in this one but it's always fun to see HHH and Jericho together in the ring. There's a few solid spots with Jericho's springboard dropkick to both men, and the now overdone superplex/powerbomb combination. Hardy does pretty well to hold his own, and has a nice sequence with Y2J while HHH is on the outside. Jericho locks in the Walls which HHH sells really well, before Hardy comes back and takes out Jericho, but then eats a Pedigree and The Game picks up the win. ****1/4*

*CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - Wrestlemania 26:*

I felt like watching this again, and it still holds up as a really solid 8 or so minute match. A real shame they didn't get longer, since this really could have been great. With the time predicament, they basically have to go into the finishing stretch mere minutes into the match, which really kills a lot of the build up and doesn't give it a Wrestlemania match feel at all. Some great counters in this match by both men that I always enjoyed, and a solid finish. These two always work well together. ****1/2*

*Shawn Michaels vs Umaga - Raw 31st July 2006:*

Umaga is still undefeated at this point and still looks menacing. Shawn is beaten down for a lot of this match and barely gets in any offense apart from a few chops. Umaga in complete control and hits that awesome elevated samoan drop that I always loved. He goes for the Samoan Spike but HBK counters and fights back. A low blow, an elbow from the top and he's about to win it until the McMahons interfere. HBK gets rid of them but gets hit with the Samoan Spike and Umaga stays undefeated. Pretty meh match, nothing special about it at all. ****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Rey Mysterio and Wrestlemania... has he ever been given a proper chance to showcase his abilities at the grandest stage?

WM19 - Match with Hardy isn't even 5 minutes
WM20 - Cruiserweight Open that's all over the place
WM21 - Match with Eddie nowhere near their best work and barely lasted over 10 minutes
WM22 - Supposed to be his big moment but the match isn't even 10 minutes long and Rey taps out behind ref's back
WM25 - JBL squash
WM26 - Match with Punk that goes a little over 5 min
WM27 - Undercard match with Cody

His best opportunities were WM21 and 22. The latter was cut short to make way for the classic pillowfight between Candice and Torrie.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Coffey said:


> Can y'all recommend me specific Nick Bockwinkel matches, please? I really need to see some more of his stuff. He was a great promo too.


*AWA World Heavyweight Championship Match 
*Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel 
_AWA Championship Wrestling (11/15/86)
_
The best Bockwinkel match I've personally ever seen. It's the one from_ The Life and Times of Mr. Perfect. _The two also had another good match at AWA SuperClash II in '87. That one's on _The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA._


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Rey Mysterio and Wrestlemania... has he ever been given a proper chance to showcase his abilities at the grandest stage?
> 
> WM19 - Match with Hardy isn't even 5 minutes
> WM20 - Cruiserweight Open that's all over the place
> ...


Yeah he's got a pretty poor deal when it comes to 'Mania. Obviously WM22 should have been the big one. That match was unbelievably short for a WM world title match, but he still got the win and his 'Wrestlemania moment' I guess. It doesn't look like he'll have much of a chance to have that 'big match' now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched Cena's PPV debut and I must say, I was fucking impressed. Jericho did a really fantastic job of carrying John Boy that early in his career but you could tell by the energy that this young guy had that he was something special. I'd throw two and a half at it as it was short and sweet for a PPV match but again, I was insanely impressed.

Watched it on the "My Life" DVD so instead of watching them all in chronological order (I own nearly every Cena PPV bout on DVD bar a few), I'm going to watch the bouts on all of his DVDs first, starting with "My Life" and making my way over to the "JAWN SHEENA EXPURRRIIIEENCEE". Watching Cena vs JBL "I Quit" match now :mark:

OH MY FUCKING GOD. That "I Quit" match is amazing and I've been underrating it more than I've been underrating most matches TBH. Cena's babyface performance and JBL's control segment is just MARK OUT worthy and the brutality shown in this one is fantastic on a whole new level. That was Cena's first EPIC performance as that match is a fucking piece of art that you need to watch immediately. I always thought it was a classic but NOPE, I'd put this on the high end of ***** 1/2* at the moment and perhaps tied with Eddie-Rey as the best match to come from Smackdown in 2005. A top 4 MOTY from where I'm sitting and a top 50 WWF/WWE match ever.

:cena3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I can't believe Cal gave a * for The Evolution vs. Rock 'N' Sock Connection match at WM20, It was fun, exhilarating and a great filler. It's at least a **1/2 match in my book.


I've just genuinely never liked the match, and not being a fan of Rock and his schtick doesn't help I guess because a lot of people who've talked about the match over the years always point to that as a big reason they like it. Whole thing just isn't my thing, which sucks because even with Rock in it, on paper it should have been great.

Just got 4 DVD's in the post today, from the bunch I ordered a couple of days ago. Raw's Most Memorable Matches, Vengeance 06 (with a bonus disc that has 75 minutes of extras, fuck knows what exactly beyond some shitty 06 DX segments), Cyber Sunday 06, and New Years Revolution 06. Weird to think that outside of a couple of early PPV years with just the big 4 events, I think 06 (when they all arrive) is the only year I have in full. Plus I have Raw, SD and ECW shows too. Just missing Heat and Velocity? Were they still alive in 06?

As for Rey at WM, guy has never really been given much of a chance to have a classic, but his 5 minute matches with Hardy and Punk are among the best matches for that kind of time that you will see (in WWE at least), and I'm a HUGE fan of the Cody match (hopefully it holds up).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Heat yes, not Velocity.

You bought Cyber Sunday 06? Dude, get a refund. That show sucks more than that year's Survivor Series.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Is Cyber Sunday the one with that god awful Jeff Hardy/Carlito match?

Just an absolute mess of a match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Are ECW crowds the dumbest crowds in the history of professional wrestling or what? Let's just look at an example from the 2006 ONS event (watching the main event now) ;

- Marks out for Sandman
- Chants "You Can't Wrestle" at John Cena

Has more *****+* matches than the original ECW had.

:cena3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Didn't Velocity end around May time or something? Think Benoit and Regal had a match in the last Velocity episode. Haven't seen it, though.

And on Cyber Sunday... is the Rated RKO vs DX match any good? I love their NYR 07 match, is it anywhere near as good?

EDIT: Oh yeah, ECW marks are laughable. Only thing Sandman knows about "wrestling" is swinging his Cane and they mark out for him then yell "You Can't Wrestle" to great wrestlers like Cena and Orton (specially in 2006).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got December To Dismember the other day too . All part of the 06 collection lol. But yeah, show looks fucking terrible anyway. Match I'm most interested in is Mickie Vs Lita. A PPV AND I'M ONLY INTERESTED IN A WOMEN'S MATCH. Still one more match than Vengeance 06 which bores me to death on paper. Hope there are some good matches at least on it. I'll see in a billion years when I watch them .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

may be the dumbest but probably the most entertaining by far.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's a guy from my hometown (which is comprised of like 300 people) who is actually a HUGE mark of the original ECW, as in he owns a whole bunch of ECW on VHS and thinks it's REAL wrestling, as this person also HATES the WWE. Thee was this one time where I went to a live event which featured Bret Hart, Kevin Nash, and Rhyno, and instead of going to meet all of the guys like me and my best friend did, what does this fucker do?

He only cares about meeting Rhyno, and when he met him I overhead the conversation they were having in which this guy said "I think you and Paul Heyman should get the boys back together again and take over the WWE".

YES. SOMEBODY ACTUALLY SAID THAT.

RHYNO'S REACTION WAS HILARIOUS (he looked like he wanted to die laughing at this fucker :lol)


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> EDIT: Oh yeah, ECW marks are laughable. Only thing Sandman knows about "wrestling" is swinging his Cane and they mark out for him then yell "You Can't Wrestle" to great wrestlers like Cena and Orton (specially in 2006).


Oh yeah, tell me about it. Was completely baffled by it.

Funny how Cena responded by doing moves I've never seen him use before, yet the idiotic ECW marks started to chant "same old sh*t!"... to the moves he's never done before. #EpicFail.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody else think that Cena vs Rob Van Dam from ONS 2006 is.....Well.... Garbage?

:cena3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I hate "You can't wrestle" chants. Even if it's targeted at a bad wrestler, I still find it disrespectful. It's not like the marks chanting that can do much better. Poor Fandango has become the victim of these chants recently.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs Rob Van Dam (Extreme Rules ; One Night Stand 2006) : ** 1/2*

OH. TLC VS EDGE TIME, been meaning to re-watch this one for a long, long, long fucking time. Why don't we see just how exactly I feel about this one right now.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> EDIT: Oh yeah, ECW marks are laughable. Only thing Sandman knows about "wrestling" is swinging his Cane and they mark out for him then yell "You Can't Wrestle" to great wrestlers like Cena and Orton (specially in 2006).


:lol ECW fans are weird like that. 

I also love when they chanted "You sick fuck!" to Mick Foley during the tag team match with him and Edge against Tommy Dreamer and Terry Funk but would start ECW chants whenever a hardcore spot would occur.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

VladMan2012 said:


> Oh yeah, tell me about it. Was completely baffled by it.
> 
> Funny how Cena responded by doing moves I've never seen him use before, yet the idiotic ECW marks started to chant "same old sh*t!"... to the moves he's never done before. #EpicFail.


My favorite part of that match was Cena trolling them instead of pandering. He went for the 5 Knuckle Shuffle with a huge trollface on and after connecting, he kept doing his taunt which they booed and he laughed at it. And then they responded with "Asshole" chants. :lol



KingOfKings said:


> Anybody else think that Cena vs Rob Van Dam from ONS 2006 is.....Well.... Garbage?
> 
> :cena3


No, that match rules! :cena


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That TROLL CENA five knuckle shuffle is literally worth one star.

:cena2


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> My favorite part of that match was Cena trolling them instead of pandering. He went for the 5 Knuckle Shuffle with a huge trollface on and after connecting, he kept doing his taunt which they booed and he laughed at it. And then they responded with "Asshole" chants. :lol


Yes, yes, yes! Absolutely adored that moment. Wish he would've trolled them even more by doing "you can't see me" pose to the fans.

Despite my strong hatred towards the blind ECW marks, I thought that match ruled. Got it ranked at ★★★1/2.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It really depends on how much the crowd factors into your ratings, and since it doesn't factor in AT ALL for me, I thought the match was absolutely horrendous. The only match in WWE history that I probably overrate and will openly admit it is HHH vs Cena from Wrestlemania XXII as it's one of my all time favorite matches EVER.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Rey Mysterio and Wrestlemania... has he ever been given a proper chance to showcase his abilities at the grandest stage?
> 
> WM19 - Match with Hardy isn't even 5 minutes
> WM20 - Cruiserweight Open that's all over the place
> ...


Well you can look at it this way:

WrestleMania 22 - fun match, had his WrestleMania moment by winning the World Title after a Royal Rumble win, something hardly anyone gets.

WrestleMania 26 - considered to be one of the best short matches by many around here.

WrestleMania 27 - considered a decent match by many, I haven't watched it since it aired though and can't remember much. But when people talk about the trainwreck that was WrestleMania 27, one of the only good things they mention about the show was the Rey/Cody match. 

And yeah, some matches he got the short end of the stick and he didn't get to showcase much, but Rey isn't the only wrestler to get that, far from it, the important thing is Rey did good with what he was given. 


Big Z said:


> Got December To Dismember the other day too . All part of the 06 collection lol. But yeah, show looks fucking terrible anyway. Match I'm most interested in is Mickie Vs Lita. A PPV AND I'M ONLY INTERESTED IN A WOMEN'S MATCH. Still one more match than Vengeance 06 which bores me to death on paper. Hope there are some good matches at least on it. I'll see in a billion years when I watch them .


The Chamber match isn't that bad tbh, it's just the wrong guy won and the finish is underwhelming. I liked the use of weapons in the Chamber, although they could of done it better. My favorite moment from that match is Test's elbow drop from the top of chamber, pretty damn impressive for a guy of his size. RIP Test.


KingOfKings said:


> *It really depends on how much the crowd factors into your ratings, and since it doesn't factor in AT ALL for me*, I thought the match was absolutely horrendous. The only match in WWE history that I probably overrate and will openly admit it is HHH vs Cena from Wrestlemania XXII as it's one of my all time favorite matches EVER.


I bet it factored when you watched John Cena vs CM Punk - Money in the bank 2011. You take away the amazing crowd from that match, and it's nothing but an above average match. Of course the story was a big factor, but the crowd, and the incredible amount of excitement and atmosphere that that the crowd produced during that match, made it that much better.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just been having a look on Silvervision. Great sale. Ordered Best of Saturday Nights Main Event, WCW Clash of the Champions and Jerichos Set. Cant believe I hadnt picked up Jerichos set sooner.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nah I always consider the Punk-Cena match @ MITB 2011 to be different, due to the elite storytelling that went on during the match. Cena is the New York Yankees and Punk is about to break through the glass ceiling and steal Cena's thunder/spot as the best in the world. They throw everything they can at one another but they can't put the other down. Punk won't be denied and he sells this from his facial expressions all the way down to his body language, and when Cena realizes that on this night he might never beat CM Punk no matter how hard he tries he is faced with a decision ; should he accept his fate and keep fighting on even though he knows his chances against this hungry young Punk are slim, or should he allow Johnny Ace to come down and ring the bell for him, staying on top no matter what the cost. It's a pivotal story arc in the character of John Cena and a brilliant character sketch of CM Punk as the defiant anti-hero as well. Cena's morals and willingness to stick to what he believes in is what ultimately costs him the match, his spot in the company, and leads him to let this anti hero walk out with what Cena feels is HIS.

That's just my take on one of the greatest matches ever though.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

What do people think of the Elimination Chamber match from New Years Revolution 2006?

I think its the worst Elimination Chamber match they have done. Incredibly dull, I don't think Carlito or Chris Masters were ready for a big match like that yet. Didn't like how HBK and Angle got eliminated so early either. A really big comedown from the greatest Elimination Chamber match ever from NYR 2005. 

**1/4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You mean 06? 

Yeah it sucks balls.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

NYR 06 chamber is definitely awful. The only good thing about it is the Edge cash in after.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like the NYR 06 chamber. Have it at ★★★¾ and think it's _far_ from the worst. But then again, I'm a huge mark for the chamber matches.

Nothing beats the 2005 one, though. ★★★★¾ for that one.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I get to re-watch the NYR 2005 one during by Trips/Benoit project, so I'll see if it holds up. I've never really decided what's better out of that one or the original 2002 one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly think the 05 one shits all over the 02 one. 02 goes down on every watch for me. Not too much, it's still a great match, but not the classic I once thought it was. I'd probably have the... Raw 08 one ahead of it, SD 09 (I think?) and then the 05 one ahead of it still.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What does everyone prefer? The Raw chamber 08 (with HHH/Hardy at the end) or Raw chamber 09 (with HHH/Taker at the end)? Or was the second one the Smackdown chamber? Yeah, I think it was. Anyway, the two that HHH won.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Yeah, I thought it seemed quite dull, I watched it quite late so didn't know if it was me being tired but I just couldn't help thinking that this is really underwhelming. The ECW chamber from D2D was pretty fun from what I remember (something like ***?), definitely would prefer watching that over NYR 06 one.

And I thought that the Raw Elimination Chamber match from 08 was decent, but considering the talent, I thought it could of been better. The finishing stretch was pretty good with HHH and Hardy. I'd give that chamber match ***1/2. Haven't seen the 09 one since it aired so can't remember too much about it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

From the 2008/2009 chambers that Triple H won, I think I prefer the 2008 one. 08 was consistently exciting whereas the 09 one started off pretty slow with Edge's early elimination and then Kozlov killing all the momentum the match had until Taker & HHH saved it towards the end.

Better overall match? 2008
Better finishing sequence? 2009 by far.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really like the 08 chamber (with Umaga in). Havnt seen the Raw 2009 one yet, but ill stick it on now to finally watch it lol


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Angle/Benoit (Royal Rumble 2003) *******
- Triple H/Nash (Bad Blood 2003) ***


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think I'll go with the 08 one too. I am actually a big fan of that HHH/Hardy finishing sequence, though not sure if I'd have it over Taker/HHH's.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

09 chamber I'll see how it holds up in my WHC project.

Speaking of that, what's the best of the February Chamber matches? I'd say SD 2011, with Raw 2009 in #2.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I should probably watch a lot of the February chambers again. I always get confused as to who was in what one since there's been so many over the last few years and usually 2 per night.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What would be everyone's dream chamber matches?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Dream Chamber? It would probably be something close to the 6-man HIAC match from Armageddon 2000, only with a few changes. Rikishi and maybe Angle. Perhaps HBK for Rikishi. Maybe Punk or Jericho for Angle.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My dream Chamber?
Austin vs HBK vs Taker vs Flair vs Kane vs HHH.

What about dream MITB?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Dream chamber?

Something close to the 2005 one.

HHH vs Undertaker vs Benoit vs Austin vs Orton vs HBK


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Shit I forgot Benoit in my dream chamber. Replace Rock with him.

HHH vs Austin vs Taker vs Benoit vs HBK vs Jericho

Not sure about dream MITB. I'd want some ladder specialists in there. Edge would be there for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dream chamber after a quick think:

Lesnar vs Taker vs HBK vs Benoit vs Angle vs Austin

:mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I was thinking Lesnar, but since he was never in a chamber match it's hard to judge. I'm sure he would have been awesome in one though.

Really stuck on dream MITB. Half of the people I picked for the dream chamber probably wouldn't be nearly as effective in a ladder match.

Edge
HBK
Benoit

I think I'd have them in it. Maybe even John Morrison for the SPOTZ. Or Shelton? You gotta have someone to take those bumps!


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Dream Chamber - HHH vs Jericho vs Punk vs Flair vs Austin vs Cena (fight me )

Dream MITB(I'll do 6 men as well) - Ziggler vs HBK vs Punk vs Jericho vs Benoit vs Morrison

Oh god, both of those matches would be GOAT


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Guiltily admitting that I'd stil have Benoit in my dream MITB...

But it is dream so that means he'd get zero damage from whichever insane diving headbutts he'd pull.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Elimination Chamber - NWO 2009 Kozlov/Hardy/HHH/Taker/Show/Edge

**** (maybe a tad higher for the Taker/Hunter ending).

Buisness picked up big time as soon as Taker entered, thought Hardy though was great throughout tbh, loved the end sequence with Taker/HHH. Seriously not just saying this as a Taker mark, but he really was excellent here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dream Chamber.

Triple H vs CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar vs Ric Flair vs John Cena vs Bret Hart

Six of my all time favorites going at it, it would get no better than that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My dream MITB: Mysterio vs. Jeff vs. Edge vs. HBK vs. Jericho vs. Shelton vs. Benoit...

That would be ***** material right there 8)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I REALLY wanted to put Bret in it too if there was room, REALLY tough decision :sad:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Three dream matches that you know have a 0 percent chance of happening?

Cena vs Bret (2011 face Cena vs 1995 face Bret)
BROCK vs Savage (2012 BROCK working DAT heel control segment against 92 Savage)
Punk vs Flair (93 face Flair against 2012 RESPECT Punk)

Now I'm depressed as fuck that I'll never see these matches. Number one REALISTIC dream match?

BROCK-PUNK.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Brock/Jericho tbh


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cm Punk (now) vs Benoit (2004) would have been awesome.
HHH (2000) vs Savage (1992)

Lesnar/Punk is one of my dream matches too. I'm pretty confident we'll see it within a year or so though. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Realistic dream match... BROCK vs Orton

Dream matches that wont happen...

Benoit (2004) vs Taker (Deadman)
ROCK (2000) vs HBK
Austin vs Orton


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs Finlay - SD 2007*

Great little match here, Taker does a great classic big boot to Finlay, plum in his face lol. Great offense by Finlay here, really enjoyed it,could have easily watched it for a lot longer,
they meshed really well IMO.










:lol


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Taker vs. Cena

That is all.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

ROCK vs Orton. The Battle of the third generation superstars.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That would be a TERRIBLE match :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Anybody else think that Cena vs Rob Van Dam from ONS 2006 is.....Well.... Garbage?
> 
> :cena3


(Y)

Me. I'll crap on it for life. It isn't good. Not in the slightest.



Big Z said:


> Been busy last few days, but WM 19 (aka GOAT WM) review is in my blog, and WM XX will be posted in about 12 minutes automatically .


Half of the thoughts on 20 mirrored mine. Than about another half were the exact polar opposite, haha.

----------






Found this "gem" more or less. Well, I use the term simply b/c I love all the people out there. About to watch it right now. It's got Rollins in it, so at the very least I'll ever so slighty :mark: for parts of it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

If we get Taker/Cena at WM30 (which Im not against) I'd love it to be I quit. Taker has never tapped and Cena hasn't since he was a heel in like 2003ish if memory serves. 

As for Dream Chamber....good Q I will go...

Savage/Cactus Jack/Sting/Punk/Taker/Austin

A couple dream matches I'd like to see that are somewhat realistic are Angle/Bryan...Austin/Punk...Brock/Punk...I'd like to see HHH/Punk again, I liked their night of champions match but that would be a good feud if given some time to develop....also I hope we get Taker/Brock again

I Quit match with Bret Hart/Angle on the same card


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> ROCK vs Orton. The Battle of the third generation superstars.


This would be so good. I'm just wondering who ROCK will go against after he's done with Cena and if he'll have more matches than just with BROCK next year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dream Chamber?

Undertaker vs CM Punk vs William Regal vs Finlay vs Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose

yeah. I can make a million of these matches. Could sub out the dominance for Taker to include Drew McIntyre for example. b/c Drew + Chamber = someone's gonna die.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Surely you're going to be the only person to include Drew McIntyre in a 'dream' match?

:HHH2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Dream Chamber?

Rey Mysterio vs. Vader vs. Finlay vs. John Morrison vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho

FUCK. Vader in an elimination chamber? :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Dream Chamber?
> 
> Rey Mysterio vs. Vader vs. Finlay vs. John Morrison vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho
> 
> FUCK. Vader in an elimination chamber? :mark:


Ah fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccckkkkkkkkkkk i forgot Vader :no:, Vader + Brock :mark:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> ROCK vs Orton. The Battle of the third generation superstars.


This was my dream match in 2004.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My favorite Royal Rumble moment is without a doubt the 1992 Rumble itself. Flair winning and going that long was awesome and the collection of stars in that Rumble....for fuck sakes. 

A close second was the Hogan/Warrior faceoff in 1990. I was in 3rd grade at the time and I marked out hard. It was just exciting at that time to see the two top faces squaring off.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Surely you're going to be the only person to include Drew McIntyre in a 'dream' match?
> 
> :HHH2


Listing an obscure pick like Drew fits the mold of a Dream Match. b/c knowing WWE, they'll never use anyone outside of the same 8 guys for a big match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> My favorite Royal Rumble moment is without a doubt the 1992 Rumble itself. Flair winning and going that long was awesome and the collection of stars in that Rumble....for fuck sakes.
> 
> A close second was the Hogan/Warrior faceoff in 1990. I was in 3rd grade at the time and I marked out hard. It was just exciting at that time to see the two top faces squaring off.


and the Flair speech afterwards, classic.

The ending to the '07 Rumble is also on my list, and i still lol at alot of the '01 Rumble, esp the Honky Tonk/Kane exchange.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumble 2001 match isn't too special. You have Kane kicking ass & Drew Carey. That's all.

Not much of a Royal Rumble mark sparring a few here and there, tbhayley. Match has lost its luster from when I was a kid.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Just finished downloading all the RAW's from 2001. AKA Austin's GOAT year :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Alliance. Hell yes.

Could it have been better? Fine. Doesn't mean it wasn't glorious amounts of fun for what it was. :mark:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I loved the Invasion story line but I'm a sucker for Brand Wars. Except for that weak RAW vs. Smackdown feud they tried to do a few years ago


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh shit every Raw from 2001? Fuck yeah.

And I enjoyed the Invasion storyline. Sure, it could have been better but there was some great stuff in there too. You can't really argue with anything that year with the amount of talent on display throughout.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cody, what did you think of Drew McIntyre's performance in the 2011 Smackdown Chamber match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brilliant. Honest to goodness the highlight of a stellar match. He was demolishing guys left and right till he was upended.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Loved Drew in that match, really.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Am I late to the dream match thing?

William Regal vs Vader Last Man Standing
Paul London vs The Hurricane vs 1-2-3 Kid Triangle Ladder Match
MVP vs Scott Steiner (sweet hairdo days)
CM Punk, Rob Van Dam & Ricky Steamboat vs Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels & Eddie Guerrero (Survivor Series elimination rules)
Bret Hart vs Finlay 
"Wildman" Marc Mero vs Sean O'Haire Steel Cage
Mr. Perfect vs Christian

This one is a stretch...

Mighty Molly, AJ Lee, Lita, Trish Stratus, Natalya & Kaitlyn
vs
Beth Phoenix, Eve, Victoria, Chyna, Layla & Melina 

*WARGAMES*

I know many of you will laugh, but in my head it's not a clusterfuck as it would be one in real life.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Such a shame we never got a Diva Ladder match. Beth/Natalya in a Ladder match at 'Mania last year (since they couldn't have Kharma) would've been AMAZING.

GOAT Mick Foley Singles match (non-gimmick)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd actually pay money to see that Ladder match. Don't know why, but I really would. Layla being involved. Something about that lovely dame possibly showing the wounds of war could be awesome :lmao

Regal vs Vader last man standing would make my brain & pants explode all at the same time. What.

@ATF - vs Austin from Over The Edge '98. With vs Undertaker from KOTR '96 having to be a close second. Might be forgetting another one. Oh, vs Michaels Mind Games. There has to be more. I know there is.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ATF said:


> Such a shame we never got a Diva Ladder match. *Beth/Natalya in a Ladder match at 'Mania last year (since they couldn't have Kharma) would've been AMAZING.*
> 
> GOAT Mick Foley Singles match (non-gimmick)?


It would have gotten like 4 mins max. There's a Ladder match between Beth and someone else (can't remember) from OVW.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Vs. Stone Cold (Maybe?)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> It would have gotten like 4 mins max. There's a Ladder match between Beth and someone else (can't remember) from OVW.


Katie Lea Burchill.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Dream chamber: Brock vs. Taker vs. Triple H vs. Rock (2000, not 2013) vs. FOLEY vs. Angle

Dream MITB: Punk vs. Jericho vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Benoit vs. Dolph


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Katie Lea Burchill.


Ah, thank you! Have you seen the match btw? I never really bothered to watch it. Would love to get some feedback on it.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm kind of blank on a Foley match without a gimmick. I'm only remembering gimmick matches.

Cody, you're welcome.

WWE, we'll take female talent. However they must be good at half hearted pouts and wooden promos.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Brilliant. Honest to goodness the highlight of a stellar match. He was demolishing guys left and right till he was upended.


I've never been a Drew fan, but I thought he put in a great performance in that match. I enjoyed him destroying Mysterio and others with the aggression that truly showcased his ''sinister Scotsman'' character. It's kinda crazy how far Drew's fallen now...

8:13 and 8:51 (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Mcintyre owns in that 2011 chamber. The 2011 chamber is the second greatest imo (the GOAT being NYR '05). The back and forth action between Edge and Mysterio also rules. I freaking love that SD 2011 chamber. 
*
****3/4 *for NYR '05
*****1/2* for 2011


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

^ Yeah it was great stuff when it came down to just Edge and Mysterio.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ah, thank you! Have you seen the match btw? I never really bothered to watch it. Would love to get some feedback on it.


Many moons ago. Wouldn't object to watching it again right now. I do recall liking it.



SpookshowTony said:


> I'm kind of blank on a Foley match without a gimmick. I'm only remembering gimmick matches.
> 
> Cody, you're welcome.
> 
> WWE, we'll take female talent. However they must be good at half hearted pouts and wooden promos.


(Y)

btw, the Over The Edge '98 match vs Austin must be seen if it hasn't. Non-gimmick Foley match to extend your way. It's an Austin match during his height. You've probably seen it. 



Nostalgia said:


> I've never been a Drew fan, but I thought he put in a great performance in that match. I enjoyed him destroying Mysterio and others with the aggression that truly showcased his ''sinister Scotsman'' character. It's kinda crazy how far Drew's fallen now...
> 
> 8:13 and 8:51 (Y)


:mark:

He goes on a spree. Love it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Elimination Chambers 

SS '02 - ****1/4
SS '03 - **
NYR '05 - ****1/2
NYR '06 - ***
D2D - **3/4
SD '08 - ***1/4
Raw '08 - ****1/4
SD '09 - ***1/2
Raw '09 - ****1/4
Raw '10 - ***1/2
SD '10 - ****
SD '11 - ****1/2
Raw '11 - ****
Raw '12 - ***1/2
SD '12 - ***1/4
SD '13 - ***3/4

Holy shit there's been so many of these now.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Best Foley non gimmick match Is vs Michaels at mind games 96... One of Both guys best tbh


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Tim Legend said:


> Best Foley non gimmick match Is vs Michaels at mind games 96... One of Both guys best tbh



@Cody
Thanks, I'll check that out when I when I'm in the mood for wrestling.

fpalm Forgot about that Mind Games match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

There's been too many Chamber matches now. They've become watered down versions of their former selves, like very match in E's library.

Anyways from memory;

SS '02 - ****1/2
SS '03 - **1/2
NYR '05 - ****3/4
NYR '06 - **
D2D - **1/2
SD '08 - ***3/4
Raw '08 - ****1/2
SD '09 - (was this the one with the Taker/HHH go home sequence? if so ****)
Raw '09 - ****1/4
Raw '10 - ***1/2
SD '10 - ****
SD '11 - ****1/2
Raw '11 - ***1/2
Raw '12 - **1/4
SD '12 - Needs a rewatch. Which won't happen anytime soon 
SD '13 - **3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

EC Matches:

SS '02 - ****1/4
SS '03 - **1/2
NYR '05 - ****1/4
NYR '06 - ***
D2D - **
SD '08 - ***1/2
Raw '08 - ***3/4
SD '09 - ***3/4
Raw '09 - ****1/4
Raw '10 - ***1/4
SD '10 - ****
SD '11 - ****
Raw '11 - ***
Raw '12 - ***
SD '12 - ***
SD '13 - ***1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Predictions for WM 29 ratingz:
*Rock/Cena - ***1/4
HHH/Lesnar - ***3/4 or ****
Taker/Punk - ****
ADR/Swagger - ***1/4
Shield/Shorteamus - ***3/4 or ****
Barrett/Miz - **1/2
Hell No/ZiggBig - **3/4 (if it's Winner Take All with Kaitlyn & AJ, then ***)
Kaitlyn/AJ - **3/4
Henry/Ryback - ***
Jericho/Fandango - ***1/2
Team Funk/RS & Bellas - *1/4
(If Cesaro has a match, it'll likely be vs Truth, for that **)

If it delievers, it has potential to be the best in years.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't like McIntyre or anything but I feel sorry for him. He deserves better than being a comedy jobber alongside Heath Slater. I guess it gives him TV time, though.

Chamber matches:

Survivor Series 2002 - ★★★★¼
SummerSlam 2003 - ★★¾
New Year's Revolution 2005 - ★★★★¾
New Year's Revolution 2006 - ★★★¾
December to Dismember - ★★½
No Way Out 2008 (Raw) - ★★★★
No Way Out 2008 (Smackdown) - ★★★¼
No Way Out 2009 (Raw) - ★★★¾
No Way Out 2009 (Smackdown) - ★★★¾
Elimination Chamber 2010 (Raw) - ★★★½
Elimination Chamber 2010 (Smackdown) - ★★★
EC 2011 (Raw) - ★★★½
EC 2011 (Smackdown) - ★★★¾
EC 2012 (Raw) - ★★¾
EC 2012 (Smackdown) - ★★★
EC 2013 - ★★★★


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF said:


> *Predictions for WM 29 ratingz:
> *Rock/Cena - ***1/4
> HHH/Lesnar - ***3/4 or ****
> Taker/Punk - ****
> ...


I have no hopes for Jericho/Fandango but everything else looks about right, has Barrett/Miz been officially confirmed yet?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

R-Truth is injured I believe, so he won't be facing Cesaro. And I kind of expect Jericho/Fandango to be a surprise MOTN contender.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Dream Card

Austin (98) V Hogan (87)


Rock (2000) V HBK (1997)
Undertaker (1997) V Sting (1997)
Bret Hart (1993) V Kurt Angle (2000)
Randy Savage (1988) V Mick Foley (2000)
HHH (2000) V Ricky Steamboat (1989)
British Bulldogs (86) V Road Warriors (86)
Mr. Perfect (1991) V Harley Race (1983)
Rowdy Roddy Piper(1985) V CM Punk (2011)
Chris Benoit (2004) V Daniel Bryan (2012)
Eddie Guerrero (2004) V Ted DiBiase (1988)
Terry Funk (1989) V Kerry Von Erich (1984)
Jake Roberts(1991) V Chris Jericho (2001)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series '02 ~ ****
SummerSlam '03 ~ **
New Year's Revolution '05 ~ ****1/2
New Year's Revolution '06 ~ ***
December 2 Dismember ~ idk
No Way Out '08 Smackdown ~ ***1/2
No Way Out '08 RAW ~ ****
No Way Out '09 Smackdown ~ ***
No Way Out '09 RAW ~ ****
Elimination Chamber '10 RAW ~ **3/4
Elimination Chamber '10 Smackdown ~ ****
Elimination Chamber '11 Smackdown ~ ****1/2
Elimination Chamber '11 RAW ~ ****1/4
Elimination Chamber '12 RAW ~ **1/2
Elimination Chamber '12 Smackdown ~ ***
Elimination Chamber '13 ~ **

The Smackdown 2012 one could go down if I take the time to rewatch it soon. All I know is half of the match was trash & the other half was fun. I hate Santino, but damn if the crowd didn't buy into him winning. LOVE it when Danielson shuts all of them up. The rest are set for life. Confident about it considering how much I've watched them all.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Which one did Benoit do the headbutt off the top of the pod that was NYR 05 right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know it.

The best Chamber match out there. With the Smackdown 2011 match as it's only competition.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I can't recall anything about the Smackdown '11 Chamber. Will have to re-watch that since it's getting praised here. I couldn't even tell you who was in it or who won.


----------



## Jaxx (Aug 11, 2010)

Just saw the HBK DVD, what a career he had. Greatest imo, I knew how good he was but that DVD just put it all into perspective, fucking amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I can't recall anything about the Smackdown '11 Chamber. Will have to re-watch that since it's getting praised here. I couldn't even tell you who was in it or who won.


Edge vs Mysterio vs Big Show vs Kane vs Barrett vs McIntyre

A nice fusion of different talent throughout. Great match. McIntyre shined, as you've read today.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks, dude. Will definitely check that out tomorrow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Hmm. Think it is time I get on the ball with some more Superstars circa 2011. Oh, I think I may want a refesher course on the one good thing the terrible Kane vs Edge circa 2010 brought. Their Last Man Standing on the first Smackdown of 2011 shocked me at how good it was. At least on that one viewing. Going to find that bad boy right now.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

SOBER KENNY


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Dream Elimination Chamber Match...
Brock Lesnar vs Shawn Michaels vs Cactus Jack vs Goldberg vs Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Rey Mysterio. 

I know how this match would play out too lol and it would have been all kinds of awesome. Lets say HBK and Rey start the match putting on a wrestling clinic, then have Brock come in destroying both of them. Then say Foley comes in for the spots of the match but eventually gets destroyed by the beast Lesnar. Then Goldberg comes in and saves the day beating the hell out of everyone (ala Summmerslam 2003, the best performance by any superstar in a Chamber match IMO). During this interval, Lesnar gets eliminated first by everybody getting their finishers on him. Then SCSA comes in and has the 'epic' showdown with Goldberg interrupted by Foley, Mysterio and HBK who then all get eliminated by the combo of SCSA and Goldberg annoyed that they can't finally go at it. Then have a 5 minute battle between the two in which Stone Cold comes out on top!

Man, that would of been amazing haha! 

Annoying this is all of these men were around the in WWE at some point between 02-04 aswell, ahh well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Quite the scenario you've mapped out. I'd pay to see it.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

WrestleMania 14 - Kane vs The Undertaker ****

Thought it was a good match for the size of both men, was a bit slow but fit the story being told, not a lot of selling from Kane (which is OK for Kane at the time) and you could even call it a squash at times with the amount Kane dominated barring the final 5 minutes. 

The story was so good and they executed that along with the match brilliantly, the first real marquee match for Undertaker at WrestleMania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YoungGun_UK said:


> WrestleMania 14 - Kane vs The Undertaker ****
> 
> Thought it was a good match for the size of both men, was a bit slow but fit the story being told, not a lot of selling from Kane (which is OK for Kane at the time) and you could even call it a squash at times with the amount Kane dominated barring the final 5 minutes.
> 
> The story was so good and they executed that along with the match brilliantly,* the first real marquee match for Undertaker at WrestleMania.*












Let us not forget about WrestleMania 12, either.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Been thinking about how many guys I'd love to see Foley face in a feud similar to the Orton and Edge stuff we saw in '04 and '06, respectively. I'm talking an actual built feud, not just being thrown together. And culminating in some sort of insane hardcore match.

Foley vs McIntyre
Foley vs Rhodes
Foley vs Cesaro
Foley, Funk & Flair vs The Shield (stretching with this one :side
Foley vs Cena
Foley Ambrose (WE DID HAVE SOME BUILD!)

Would all own, imo.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

:mark: at Foley/Cesaro.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Hmm. Think it is time I get on the ball with some more Superstars circa 2011. Oh, I think I may want a refesher course on the one good thing the terrible Kane vs Edge circa 2010 brought.


Don't forget about those AWSUM backstage segments w/Paul Bearer!

And yes, I'm aware that I am the only fan of the internets that actually enjoys them, which is something I just cannot understand. I honestly have it as one of the funniest ever angles in WWE


> Been thinking about how many guys I'd love to see Foley face in a feud similar to the Orton and Edge stuff we saw in '04 and '06, respectively. I'm talking an actual built feud, not just being thrown together. And culminating in some sort of insane hardcore match.
> 
> Foley vs McIntyre
> Foley vs Rhodes
> ...


Interesting to wonder how Foley vs Cena would work, considering he's the only face of that bunch. And it's a shame about Mick, I think Dean Ambrose was set to be the last arrogant young punk to get humbled by him in a hardcore match. Too bad, too bad


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I remember Jericho tweeting about this match the day after it happened, recommending it. But I was almost completely out of the product at that point so I gave it a miss. Until now, that is. Pretty good match like I'd expect from the two with some good back and forth action and a decent amount of time. Have to complain about Jericho looking way too weak, though. He gets the Walls locked in twice and Sheamus manages to escape both times but he also hits the Codebreaker twice, once as a counter to a top rope move. Even though he takes some time to cover, finishers still shouldn't be kicked out of on free TV unless the stakes are really high in something like a title match. ★★★¼

That makes me think, Jericho really needs to have a full program with Sheamus and Daniel Bryan resulting in a PPV match where they get a good amount of time. In both cases, we've only really seen them on free TV with not much time but given 20 minutes on PPV, he can steal the show with either guy.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I remember Jericho tweeting about this match the day after it happened, recommending it. But I was almost completely out of the product at that point so I gave it a miss. Until now, that is. Pretty good match like I'd expect from the two with some good back and forth action and a decent amount of time. Have to complain about Jericho looking way too weak, though. He gets the Walls locked in twice and Sheamus manages to escape both times but he also hits the Codebreaker twice, once as a counter to a top rope move. Even though he takes some time to cover, finishers still shouldn't be kicked out of on free TV unless the stakes are really high in something like a title match. ★★★¼
> 
> That makes me think, Jericho really needs to have a full program with Sheamus and Daniel Bryan resulting in a PPV match where they get a good amount of time. In both cases, we've only really seen them on free TV with not much time but given 20 minutes on PPV, he can steal the show with either guy.


I remember enjoying that match when it happened. I would agree Jericho did look a tad weak though. He actually seemed somewhat weak throughout that return but the guy is just so damn entertaining.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:clap @ the fantasy Foley list, Brye.

All of those would rule. The six man tag is utterly brilliant. :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just threw in the Tombstone DVD. Starting Austin/Taker from Fully Loaded in the First Blood Match. That bumper music they played before and between entrances was pretty sweet. 

Haven't seen this match in some time. Looking forward to it, though I remember the ending at least. Taker meets Austin halfway down the ramp and this brawl is UNDERWAY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ministry Undertaker :mark:

love the video package for the match. Glad it was included on the Tombstone set.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Did you watch the promo video before the match, It shows Taker signing a contract with Austin's own blood. Pretty sick, As for the match, It's definitely one of their better matches. Gets **** from me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's nearly their best wouldn't you say? Only other one I can think of that has it beat or rivals it would be their war from Judgment Day 2001. Never seen their Backlash 2002 match. Hear it's on the boring side despite it being Undertaker vs Austin of all people. It's seemingly the one Undertaker match on PPV I've yet to witness.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done rewatching Austin/ROCK from WM17 and Hogan/ROCK from WM18. Now I'm truly in a Wrestlemania mood after watching these epic battles. Kinda sad that these two matches have got me more hyped up for WM than WWE's own shows have.

- Austin/ROCK still stands at ★★★★★ for me. An intense brawl and the pinnacle of everything the Attitude Era is about. ROCK's selling as the babyface (despite crowd being in Austin's side) and Austin's facial expressions and desperation that lead to his heel turn are all awesome as is every other part of the match from the Sharpshooter exchanges to the brawling around the announce tables in the first 10 minutes. One of the greatest matches by far. And I can't praise JR and Heyman's commentary enough. "HE SHOOK THE HAND OF SATAN HIMSELF!"

- Hogan/ROCK is decent with the in-ring action but what really puts it over the top is the electric atmosphere and the awesome crowd. The reaction when Hogan hulks up as well as the finish. It's just epic and what makes wrestling so awesome. It's also short and to the point at only 15 minutes. ROCK/Cena II needs to be booked more like this and 20 minutes at most for it to truly live up to the hype. This one gets ★★★★ for now.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh yeah, video package was nice. For some reason I don't remember Taker being busted wide open like that many times. He was close to having that crimson mask. 

Good match, and I understood Shane's run-in, but X-Pac coming out seemed strange. Maybe there was something I missed. Match gets about ***1/2 from me. 

Time for Trips/Taker at Mania 17. The build for that match was terrific. Trips was peaking as a heel at this point. Looking forward to this rewatch.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ah shit, it's Wrestlemania week next week. Gonna start my Wrestlemania project as well. 

My list to watch thus far:

HBK/Ramon WM 10
Austin/Hart WM 13
Austin/Rock WM 15, 17, 19
TLC II WM 17
Hogan/Rock WM 18
Hogan/Vince WM 19
Lesnar/Angle WM 19
HBK/Jericho WM 19
HHH/HBK/Benoit WM 20
Cena/HBK WM 23
Flair/HBK WM 24

And there's a shitload more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Oh yeah, video package was nice. For some reason I don't remember Taker being busted wide open like that many times. He was close to having that crimson mask.
> 
> Good match, and I understood Shane's run-in, but X-Pac coming out seemed strange. Maybe there was something I missed. Match gets about ***1/2 from me.
> 
> Time for Trips/Taker at Mania 17. The build for that match was terrific. Trips was peaking as a heel at this point. Looking forward to this rewatch.


As far as any current details leading in to the match I can't say I remember exactly, but I know the X-Pac interference was the catalyst for the Unholy Alliance vs Kane/X-Pac tag from SummerSlam '99. Which OWNS.



sharkboy22 said:


> Ah shit, it's Wrestlemania week next week. Gonna start my Wrestlemania project as well.
> 
> My list to watch thus far:
> 
> ...


Undertaker vs Randy Orton WrestleMania 21, imo. :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^ Right, I knew Taker/Show won the titles from X-Pac/Kane.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Orton/Taker is actually going to be a part of my Taker/Orton series which I should be doing by tomorrow. I'm currently on HHH/Flair Survivor Series. After that, I'm going to watch the SS Tag match. So tomorrow I'll do the Taker/Orton series which I'm really excited about cause I haven't seen their matches at all. Actually, I've seen WM 21 so I'll just watch it for re-reviewing's sake.

But since we're already discussing Mania matches I have to point out Bret/Owen from WM X. Maybe it's because the ladder match overshadowed but this match hardly ever gets mentioned. Heck, I didn't even know it existed till some one pointed it out the other day. WM X gave us what most would considered to 5 star or near 5 star matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Love that program so much. Kane & X-Pac was my favorite duo of the year and to have a solid interaction vs my favorite incarnation of Undertaker. Well, I was sold.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Taker at Mania 17 is good, but for me its still 28 > 27 > 17. Mania 17 is about ***3/4.

In keeping with the Mania discussion, think I'll head over to Taker/Batista.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wcw really messed up in 2000 by continuously giving jarrett the title. so many times they should have went with DDP.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ah Batista/Taeker. I haven't seen that match since. Tbh, I didn't think much of it when I first saw it. I was 12 years old at the time and maybe it was because I was a big Cena mark but I saw Cena/HBK as the better match that night. I remember, I believe it was ECW (or maybe RAW) had a best of the year show and Taker/Tista got the MOTY and I was pissed cause in my mind, Cena/HBK from Mania 23 was the better match. 

Hey, at least at 12 years old I knew that Cena/HBK RAW> WM 23. Then again, it was probably the novelty of me witnessing my first ever hour match. I will never forget that feeling at looking at the clock and realizing "holy shit! Shit just went an entire hour"


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Judgement Day 2001 went down tremendously on a rewatch, ***1/2 from a ****1/4.

1. A Cold Day In Hell '97 *(****1/4)*
2. Backlash '02 *(****)*
3. Fully Loaded '99 *(****)* 
4. Judgement Day '01 *(***1/2)*

Backlash is awesome, Undertaker carried Austin-no-care to a magnificent match up. A Cold Day In Hell is severely underrated and consisted of technical spectacle rather than a typical brawl.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> wcw really messed up in 2000 by continuously giving jarrett the title. so many times they should have went with DDP.


One could say the screwed up quite a bit during that year. I think with how DDP left the company for quite a few months following the Jarrett feud, he only got the Championship again for such a short time b/c he was going to leave soon. idk. I like to think this as a way to cope with him getting shafted for David Arquette.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Judgement Day 2001 went down tremendously on a rewatch, ***1/2 from a ****1/4.
> 
> 1. A Cold Day In Hell '97 *(****1/4)*
> 2. Backlash '02 *(****)*
> ...


It's a series I have to watch again. The only match of their's I've watched recently was the First Blood. All of the rest are sort of blanks. Or, like I stated, haven't seen in the case of Backlash '02.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

FUCK Michael Cole has been ruining streak matches since 2007 (maybe 2005). STREAK'S OVER! STREAK'S OVER! I get he's trying to sell it but damn. 

Can't say I think much of Batista/Taker at Mania. *** is all I'm giving. Need to watch their Cyber Sunday encounter, since I've heard that's better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't think a single person will agree with you there. WM 23 match is phenomenal.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Yeah Taker/Batista is a clash of the titans style of match and it was fucking awesome. 

*****1/4, but seeing it that low has made me want to go to ****1/2.*


----------



## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

SummerSlam '92 from my SummerSlam Anthology.


This has always been my favorite SummerSlam since I was a kid (and Royal Rumble '92). Probably watched this....48324903284923048092 times, it just never gets boring.


Still fucking legit angry over Money Inc. losing to LOD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beverly Brothers got the tag team championship shot on that PPV over both Money Inc & LOD. I almost can't believe it myself.

From SHAKER HEIGHTS, OHIO.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HEENAN + FLAIR = GOAT RUMBLE.

About to watch the "John Cena Experience" doc for the second time just for the LOLZ. Need to get on as much CENA shit as possible leading up to Mania as many of you may already know. Might as well check out all of Cena's OUTSIDE ENDEAVORS (since this isn't a WRESTLING doc in the slightest sense of the word) for the hell of it, I feel him as a rapper most of the time.

:cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heenan freaking out every single time Flair is nearly eliminated. Genius.

That match is the ideal perception of the Royal Rumble. So much star power. The WWF Championship on the line. Incredible stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOAT COMMENTARY PERFORMANCE.

GOAT COMMENTATOR + GOAT WRESTLER = GOAT

:flair3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Randy Savage wanting Jake Roberts blood = the other excellent portion of the match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

"IT'S NOT A SKIRT. IT'S A KILT!" :lol :lol :lol


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I've never seen the 92 Rumble yet, just haven't got round to it :$


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's SO close to the full five for me. WATCH IT NOW.

OR WATCH SOME JOHN CENA MATCHES. EITHER OR.

:cena2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> "IT'S NOT A SKIRT. IT'S A KILT!" :lol :lol :lol


I heard that from the Grinch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Right now is a brilliant time to do so, Ever Wolf. Why? idk. Seems like the perfect excuse/line to get you to see a hell of a match. It'll only feel like 20 minutes once it finishes.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

It's 7 in the morning, i should probably get some sleep soon. I shall once i have woken up, can't watch it with one eye closed right now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've had many of those nights. We'll hold you to your word and better see a comment on the Rumble tomorrow. :side: _(am I kidding? Yeah...)_ Hell, I may have to watch it now after I plug through some more 2011 fun. Don't know why I'm fixated on this year atm. It sort of just happened. Hate myself for enjoying more this time around in early 2013 than when it was actually happening. Sans CM Punk rise. Of course I bought into that immediately.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Trying to come up with a list of Wrestlemania matches I want to watch with my roommate this week as we prepare for Wrestlemania 29. 

Here is what I have so far:

Bret/Austin
HBK/Taker I and II
Rock/Austin II and III
Rock/Hogan
Jericho/HBK
HBK/Angle
TLC II
Benoit/HHH/HBK
Cena/HHH
Flair/HBK
Batista/Taker
HBK/Cena
Angle/Lesnar
Taker/HHH II
Rock/Cena

Anything else? I know I'm missing stuff from the early Wrestlemanias, but tbh I haven't seen many of them because they don't interest me so I'll take some suggestions on what to watch specifically.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BRET-OWEN.

10 OUT OF 10.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Alim said:


> Trying to come up with a list of Wrestlemania matches I want to watch with my roommate this week as we prepare for Wrestlemania 29.
> 
> Here is what I have so far:
> 
> ...


Added some oldies, i liked in bold.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Showing a friend WrestleMania matches?

Gimmick Battle Royal. Easy fun. Always earns a laugh from me. I'm very serious.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MITB I .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> BRET-OWEN.
> 
> 10 OUT OF 10.


This is funny because a while back when you made your top 50 Wrestlemania matches list my roommate used it to entertain ourselves when we were high one night. Bret-Owen was ranked #1 but we couldn't find it online 



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Added some oldies, i liked in bold.


Cheers



HayleySabin said:


> Showing a friend WrestleMania matches?
> 
> Gimmick Battle Royal. Easy fun. Always earns a laugh from me. I'm very serious.


He's going to get a kick out of this one haha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Alim said:


> This is funny because a while back when you made your top 50 Wrestlemania matches list my roommate used it to entertain ourselves when we were high one night. Bret-Owen was ranked #1 but we couldn't find it online
> 
> He's going to get a kick out of this one haha


:mark:

Bret vs Owen ~ http://www.myspace.com/video/zack/wrestlemania-x-bret-hart-vs-owen-hart/22954200


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

All McMahon SQUASH Matches are fun:

Shane - WM17
HBK - WM22
Hogan - WM19
Battle Of The Billionaires - WM23

Oh wait, Bret at WM26 fpalm. Down into the shack i go.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YES. Shawn vs Vince is a major addition to the list. Talk about some more fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> All McMahon SQUASH Matches are fun:
> 
> Shane - WM17
> HBK - WM22
> ...


That match is 10 out of 10 though.

IN MY TOP 1000.

EDIT: Watch BROCK-BILL for the LOLZ.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> :mark:
> 
> Bret vs Owen ~ http://www.myspace.com/video/zack/wrestlemania-x-bret-hart-vs-owen-hart/22954200


Bookmarked


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On tap for the 8/4/11 edition of Superstars:

Alicia Fox vs Kaitlyn
Brodus Clay vs local jobber
Vladimir Koslov vs Primo Colon
Chris Masters vs Jack Swagger

So three duds & a promising main event. I think this is Masters' final TV match with WWE.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've watched Vince/HBK an obscene amount of times over the years. It's a match I always show to my friends that are getting into it, plus it's so much fun.

Edit: Masters 

The Clay squash might be fun. He had a cool moveset as a heel.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Brock/Bill lol. Sure, why not. I have the event on DVD anyways.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> On tap for the 8/4/11 edition of Superstars:
> 
> Alicia Fox vs Kaitlyn
> Brodus Clay vs local jobber
> ...


Masters vs Swagger :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

True, true. Jumped the gun with putting down the squash. I'll serve its purpose. Plus, I recall Brodus heel music being radical. Other two matches are going to be a bust. If Koslov vs Primo doesn't suck, well, I'll be both stunned & elated.

Masters though. Damn you WWE. </3


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> That match is 10 out of 10 though.
> 
> IN MY TOP 1000.
> 
> EDIT: Watch BROCK-BILL for the LOLZ.


Meh, 4 out of 10. Not impressed.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> True, true. Jumped the gun with putting down the squash. I'll serve its purpose. Plus, I recall Brodus heel music being radical. Other two matches are going to be a bust. If Koslov vs Primo doesn't suck, well, I'll be both stunned & elated.
> 
> Masters though. Damn you WWE. </3


speaking of masters, whats he doing nowadays?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> speaking of masters, whats he doing nowadays?


Seems to be doing some indies here and there in the States & in England. Speaking of, been meaning to check out his work from England last year. He had a gem or two. Believe he worked recently via Dragon Gate: UK. I'd have to ask Shep more on it as he has the clearer details.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> speaking of masters, whats he doing nowadays?


Being a superhero.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...es-mom-fiery-hostage-crisis-article-1.1295221


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Uprooted a tree. Jesus christ, the strength. Masters is a super hero, :lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I believe Undertaker was on ROIDS during his ministry days, Just look how much big he had gotten compared to his _Lord Of Darkness_ days and how bad his matches were during that timeframe.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)
15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)
13. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
12. WWE Championship & Intercontinental Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs Ultimate Warrior(c) (Title vs Title ; Wrestlemania VI)
11. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Career Threatening Match ; Wrestlemania XXIV)
10. Undertaker vs Triple H w/ Shawn Michaels Special Referee ( Hell in a Cell ; Wrestlemania XXVIII)
9. WWE Championship - The Rock (c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XVII)
8. Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII)
7. Intercontinental Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III)*



*6. Intercontinental Championship - Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Ladder match ; Wrestlemania X)​*
*"Ladies and Gentlemen you are about to witness for the first time ever at a Wrestlemania a ladder match" Vince McMahon​*











We go from arguably the greatest Intercontinental title match ever, to my pick for not only the greatest Intercontinental title match but also still to this day the greatest ladder match of all time. This match is legendary and will always be a classic. This was unlike anything of its time, maybe the spots aren't as big as today but ill happily take the storytelling and psychology over big spots any day. This match influenced a generation of performers , and in a way changed the WWE forever.

Starts off with great chain wrestling, then floats to the outside where Razor tears up the floor to drop HBK onto the concrete, only for when they are in the ring Razor goes for the Razors Edge only for HBK to backdrop him onto the concrete. Diesel hits Razor with a clothesline and gets sent to the back by Hebner. HBK goes for the ladder only to get taken down by Razor, as things hit the ring HBK hits razor with the ladder to his ribs, good psychology to try and gas Razor out so he cannot climb. Then HBK drops the ladder twice hard onto Razors back as he try's to get away. HBK sets up the ladder as Razor tries to bring him down, HBK drops him and hits a elbow from near the top of the ladder with his ass out of course. HBK then sets the ladder up and now hits the iconic splash on razor. HBK sets up the ladder again and goes for the title only for Razor to shake the ladder, as HBK falls off he hits his throat on the top rope. Some more action as both men go down and sell this match as a war. Razor takes control and destroys HBK with the ladder, and then specifically attacks the throat area, great psychology. Both men fight atop the ladder as HBK takes a big suplex off the ladder. Razor sets the ladder up again, but HBK drop kicks the ladder, the showstopper refuses to stay down. More action as Razor comes off the ropes only to be hit by SCM and then a big piledriver. HBK sets up the ladder with Razor under it, Razor fights out and pushes the ladder over as HBK gets caught in the ropes as he watches Razor go up and grab the belts. 

What an incredible match, one that will be talked about forever. It's funny to think if this match would of been a disaster, would they have continued with the gimmick or would we have never seen things like TLC matches and Mitbs. I know others have Benoit/Jericho as the better ladder match and I respectfully acknowledge that opinion, but the significance of this match puts it over the top for me. This is the match that made Shawn Michaels, and still to this day may be his best performance ever. I hate however that people barely acknowledge Razor as he definitely held up his end of the bargain, this is Shawn's match no doubt but you have to be naive not to acknowledge the work by Razor as well. This is an absolutely classic and I can't speak more highly of it, I struggle to think that any ladder match will ever surpass this. This is one of the greatest matches of all time (top 25 in my opinion) and is in my book the 6th greatest match in Wrestlemania history, stangely enough it wasn't even the match of the night.​
***** 3/4*​


*5. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXV)

"You may be 16-0 at Wrestlemania but I am Mr Wrestlemania" Shawn Michaels*​









Words can't describe how much this should of went on last, everyone in the locker room knew no one could follow this and it definitely showed. It should be noted I could probably switch and change between my top 5 any day, they are so close for me. This is the greatest adrenaline rush I have had watching wrestling, and still to this day the only match I was off my feet watching live in suspense. My best friend still believes this is the greatest match in WWE history, so when I told him my list he wasn't happy. 

I have to say this is definitely the biggest atmosphere out of the top 5 the crowd were into it every second and were seemingly split chanting Undertaker and HBK. This one starts off fast paced with HBK dodging Takers big right hands and landing a quick few chops then backing off trying to do it again. I love this strategy trying to stick and move on the bigger man. Taker gains control with his power, only for HBK to hit him with a right hand then give him the DX crotch chop, as Taker goes after him HBK fakes a knee injury and then drops Taker with a Lou Thesz press. Such good strategy HBK was bringing out every trick in the book for this one. More action with HBK using his speed to counter as Taker used his power to do the same. Taker misses a high knee of sorts in the corner, so HBK goes after the knee then eventually locks in the figure 4, as Taker rolls out of it HBK goes right back to knee with a drop kick. As taker fights back he hits his usual moves, and then signals for the choke slam only for HBK to counter into the crossface. Taker again uses his power to counter into a side slam. As both men exchange chops and right hands, HBK hits the flying forearm and then hits his usual stuff, I absolutely loved how he doubled up his offence to knock Taker down. Now we hit the most breathtaking sequence I can remember as HBK goes for the elbow, Taker sits up and catches him by the throat and goes for the choke slam only for HBK to counter and go for SCM, Taker drops down to duck SCM so HBK goes back to the figure 4 but Taker counters with Hells gate as HBK barely makes the ropes. The crowd went insane for this, so do I every time I see it such a crazy sequence. Things roll to the outside as HBK goes for his patterned stealing the show moonsault only for Taker to knock him away. Taker then goes for his Wrestlemania dive as he lands on his head, as HBK moved and pulled the cameraman in front of him. I don't know how he didn't break his neck here such a scary spot. HBK rolls in the ring and drags the ref up, pleading for him to count Taker out, Taker makes it back in at 9 1/2. HBK sets up for SCM to finish it, but Taker counters with the choke slam and a kick out. Taker then goes for the tombstone but HBK counters with SCM and a kick out. Taker now goes for the last ride but HBK counters into a sunset flip, then Taker counters into the last ride for another kickout. HBK charges at Taker but misses and goes over the rope as he try's to skin the cat, Taker grabs him and hits the tombstone but HBK kicks out. One of the greatest kick outs of all time no doubt, the crowd were in shock and Taker was also. Taker goes for another tombstone but HBK counters into a DDT, and then sells the effects of the match as he slowly climbs and hits the elbow and then SCM and Taker still kicks out. This is crazy, Jim Ross said it best "I think I just had an out of body experience" Both men slowly drags themselves to there feet as they sell this is a war, chops by HBK and big right hands by Taker. As HBK knocks Taker down he try's a moonsault only for Taker to catch him and hit the tombstone for the win. 

What a match, something ill remember forever between the 2 biggest icons in Wrestlemania history. To think this is only the 3rd best match between the 2 is just scary. The chemistry is legendary, something that we may never see again. I said it before and ill say it again this is the greatest adrenaline rush I've had watching wrestling, the psychology, the kickouts, the atmosphere was all magnificent. Really only one rating could do this match justice. This is without a shadow of a doubt one of the absolute greatest matches ever a top 10 without question and in my opinion the 5th greatest match in Wrestlemania history.​
*******​
Four matches left, what will come out on top to be the greatest Wrestlemania match of all time :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brodus Clay squash made me very sad to see him not be a heel beast during these days. I don't loathe the dancing nonsense like some, but honestly, it has ran its course. Long ago. I'd gladly switch Clay with another heel to go face and let Brodus demolish people again.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Cena is turning heel at Wrestlemania. 




















































































































:troll


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Unholy Alliance vs Kane/X-Pac tag from SummerSlam '99. Which OWNS.


Thanks for that, cant say i even remember ever seeing it lol (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what should i download?!?

(pack wise)?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Try something related to Raw 2004 - that shit was AWESOME.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

how about a 2004 raw pack?

what matches should i look out for?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

found a raw 2004-2007 pack. what years the best year there?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> how about a 2004 raw pack?
> 
> what matches should i look out for?


Both Benoit/HBK matches
Benoit/HHH Iron Man
Benoit/HBK/Foley/Shelton vs Evolution
Eddie/HHH WWE Title
Trish/Lita in December
HHH/Edge/Benoit
HBK/Edge/Benoit
Orton/Benoit rematch
Jericho/Christian Steel Cage
Orton/Jericho IC Title

And many others. Not counting the thousands of awesome segments too.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wow :mark: i cant remember much of that either so it makes it exciting


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Out of those 4 years you mentioned, '05 is the best IMO.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Benoit/Edge/Jericho vs Orton/Flair/Batista 6 Man Elimination from 6/14/04 is also tremendous. Goes about 40 minutes iirc including commercials and has Benoit giving a great babyface performance the night after Bad Blood vs Kane, Batista gets a great showcase and looks like the potential superstar he'd become and there's some inspired foreshadowing of Orton/Benoit in the closing stages as well as Orton being booked superbly throughout.

Benoit/Jericho/Edge vs Orton/Flair/Batista from 8/2/04 is also another very good match between the 6. There's also a Tajiri multiman tag vs Evolution that has a great Tajiri performance as the resilient underdog trying to overcome Evolution despite nobody thinking he belongs in their league.

Orton/Benoit II the night after Summerslam (8/16/04) is widely considered by many to rival and in some cases surpass their Summerslam match. They always had great chemistry together and that match is no exception.

Really Raw in 2004 was tremendous with the tag team matches the Evolution saga produced as well as some exceptional singles matches. Benoit/Kane rematch from Bad Blood (6/28) is also another gem and a very good match built around Benoit trying to find a way to overcome Kane.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> what should i download?!?
> 
> (pack wise)?


http://www.xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=101443

I know this is the WWE section but everybody in this thread is generaly more than happy to talk about stuff outside of the E'.

DOWNLOAD THIS, KENNY. Hell, anybody in the entire world who's a wrestling fan, download this. Not only does it have the most overrated match in company history, it also has the best TV match in company history as well as the best singles match in company history. Plus it's just so.. much.. fucking.. FUN.

:aj :daniels :joe


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what is it? they want me to log in, and i cant remember my details. :side:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Every AJ Styles vs. Daniels vs Joe match, including singles matches between the three - Joe vs. Daniels, Daniels vs. AJ, Joe vs. AJ. Really fun to watch in chronological order and see the progression between the three. 

1) Impact 2005-01-21
2) Against All Odds 2005
3) Destination X 2005
4) Sacrifice 2005
5) Unbreakable 2005
6) Bound For Glory 2005
7) Genesis 2005
8) Turning Point 2005
9) Final Resolution 2006
10) Against All Odds 2006
11) 1PW All Or Nothing 2006
12) Destination X 2006
13) Impact 2006-04-13
14) Hardcore War 2006
15) No Surrender 2009
16) Turning Point 2009
17) Final Resolution 2009
18) Against All Odds 2010
19) Destination X 2011
20) Impact 2011-09-01
21) Destination X 2012
22) Final Resolution 2012 

On another unrelated note; If I see another unexplained comparison between Rey Mysterio and El Generico, I'm going to stab a little kitten.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i have a few projects to finish/start up which include

the rest of wcw 1998-2001 (need to download nitro for 1999-2001)
TNA from beginning 
wwf raw 1999/2000 etc

so much stuff :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Every AJ Styles vs. Daniels vs Joe match, including singles matches between the three - Joe vs. Daniels, Daniels vs. AJ, Joe vs. AJ. Really fun to watch in chronological order and see the progression between the three.
> 
> 1) Impact 2005-01-21
> 2) Against All Odds 2005
> ...


sounds like a good pack :mark:

whatd you put in search for that?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

King Kenny said:


> sounds like a good pack :mark:
> 
> whatd you put in search for that?


I just found it on the first page of "packs" but it's on the second page now. Just type in (or copy and paste);

AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe vs. Christopher Daniels Feud


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

downloading that now


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've only just started watching the stuff from 09, but surprisingly it hasn't become stale so far which speaks volumes about each man's ability and how much management trusted them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 21 review in my blog . HBK/Angle... good, bad, great, shitty... READ AND FIND OUT .

And thanks to work, I'm now no longer ahead with my reviews. Gotta get 22 finished for 2morrow lol.


----------



## VINT (Feb 12, 2013)

I kinda need some help in getting my hands(downloading) on some DVDs because I really want to see the heel runs of HHH because it's known as one of the best heel runs ever and I can't find any clips showing the entire run or mostly the epic parts. I figure HHH has put out a DVD regarding his career including his heel run and his promos etc, can someone provide a name of the dvd and possibly a download link for it? 

Also I wanna know more about the hardcore title + its history and the 24/7 rule, is there a dvd dedicated to that or if someone has any tapes please give me some links to download. thank you!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Armagedden 2004 - JBL vs Eddie Guerrero vs Undertaker vs Booker T*

***3/4


The Taker/Eddie ineraction was indeed awesome, its 100% correct that any singles match these could have would have been amazing, you could just tell even from this short exchange, Eddie was perfect for Taker IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No one put Umaga in their dream Elimination Chamber matches!? 

Anyways, Happy Easter everyone.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> No one put Umaga in their dream Elimination Chamber matches!?
> 
> Anyways, Happy Easter everyone.


It was Umaga or Vader tbh, and I've always wanted to see VADER/REY interaction, so he won by default.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Summer 2007 Umaga vs 1993 Vader, that right there would've been amazing, legit dream match for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Ultimate Warrior vs Hulk Hogan - Wrestlemania 6 - Title vs Title*

*The Ultimate Challenge*










My favorite match when i was a kid, first time ive watched it in years tbh, THIS is a fucking BIG MATCH. Both men told the perfect story, match was pretty well structured to both Warrior and Hogan, manic crowd, and BOTH fucking titles on the line which was a massive deal back then, and i was at the time more of a Warrior fan, loved the guy lol, so i was estatic when he became double-champion.

****1/2 - a bit more for the epic-ness of the whole damn thing. Probably 1/4 star added for nostalgia, and another 1/4 for the magnitude.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan TV Matches - Reviewed*

*RAW 1/30/2012*






*Overall Match Thoughts:* Great for a TV match, The average rating i'd give it, would probably be ****1/4* stars. It did start out on a slow pace but picked up on speed during the ad break. Giving away Punk and Bryan's first WWE match free on television, might have been a mistake. Although, with Jericho's interference, It eventually sets up another match down the line and further progresses the latter program for WM28.

*Super Smackdown 2/21/2012 *






*Overall Match Thoughts:* Looking over the desperate attempts to fuck this match up by overbooking it to no mans land, the fifteen minutes these two gave was pure, solid, organic gold and just as you'd expect. The restarts did annoy the crap out of me though, however i think this match is worthy of ****1/2*. It definitely an improvement upon the crap we witnessed at MITB.

*RAW 2/27/2012*






*Overall Match Thoughts:* Didn't like this match as much as their Smackdown one, It felt too apparent that they were again trying to further a feud, In this case the pointless GM vs. GM. The match wasn't as taken into consideration by both Punk and Bryan. Still decent but not their best, ***1/2*.

*RAW 5/28/2012 *






*Overall Match Thoughts:* Solid as a rock can be, this match that is. Not much can be said, AJ was finally used as a factor within the story and was damn fine at the role she played and is damn fine in general. WOOOOOOO, Anyways fantastic wrestling with great storytelling and a trickle of psychology always makes for a great match. ****3/4* is what it gets from me.​


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Bryan/Punk from SD was only 15 minute? You mean 15 minutes, is what we got. Could have sworn that went like 30 minutes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS!?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWE-Vengean...?pt=US_DVD_HD_DVD_Blu_ray&hash=item2a2b2fd0ff

6 discs...?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

All this talk of Vader makes me think of a story I heard about him. So my buddy and I use to do a podcast about wrestling (our biggest guests were Rikishi and Brian Christopher which was right after Lawler's heart attack which was emotional) and my frien has a lot of friends who are indie wrestlers. one knows Vader pretty well and I guess he is a big teddy bear. He still wrestles on the indies a little bit. He will put anyone over as long as the match is under 8 mins haha. Though that was interesting.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS!?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWE-Vengean...?pt=US_DVD_HD_DVD_Blu_ray&hash=item2a2b2fd0ff
> 
> 6 discs...?


Yeah those are VCD's, aka videos on CD discs. So they needed more discs to get the events on. They were only sold in a couple of countries I think back in the day.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

YoungGun_UK said:


> the first real marquee match for Undertaker at WrestleMania.


Ummmmmm Giant Gonzalez says hello! :taker


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Been thinking about how many guys I'd love to see Foley face in a feud similar to the Orton and Edge stuff we saw in '04 and '06, respectively. I'm talking an actual built feud, not just being thrown together. And culminating in some sort of insane hardcore match.
> 
> Foley vs McIntyre
> Foley vs Rhodes
> ...


I read an interview with Mick a few months ago and he said he might have one more "big bump" in him. I'd love to see a hardcore match with Foley and Ambrose at WM30. Here is where I would be jacking off my air penis.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny, don't watch the Unbreakable three way match on that pack. It sucks. :hayley3

Punker vs Danielson TV series? I'll add in PPVs too for the FUN:

1/30 ~ ****
2/21 ~ ***1/2
2/27 ~ **1/2
Over The Limit ~ ****1/2
5/28 ~ ***3/4
Money in the Bank ~ ****1/4

Yeah, they kind of had awesome matches. :mark: I'll always support the MITB match. Why? b/c some involvement of a storyline crazy dame won't hinder a wicked excellent match. That's why. The hate AJ got was...weird. Enough to disrupt opinion on a great match. I don't see it.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

http://veetle.com/index.php/channel/view#514ea3d27a338/a9f249370cf6aed18f8c73dda90bbb77

Currently watching Brain Busters vs Strike Force at V :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rick Martel does the unthinkable!

ohhhhhhh how I love WrestleMania V.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Halfway through Starrcade '86. Undercard is pretty much done. If this was to stand alone, it would be very underwhelming. But, no fear. With other matches like the Wrecking Crew & Rock n Roll Express in the cage, Road Warriors vs Midnight Express in a Scaffold match, Tully/Dusty in a First Blood and Ric Flair vs Nikita Koloff, to come. Felt it would be a terrible wall of text to post the entire event at once.



Spoiler: Starrcade 1986 First Half



Starrcade 1986
Night of the Skywalkers
Ah, the big event is finally here. For me atleast. Been so thoroughly hyped for this PPV for 2 days, watching through the weeklies. Some very good promos, by Flair & Dusty, J.J & Tully, Jimmy Garvin, the Army with Paul Jones on them shows. Definately gets you in the mood for this PPV.

*Jimmy Garvin w/ Precious vs Brad Armstrong*
The opener, fast 'n' furious. Garvin had been on a roll, but I'm not exactly sure who he was mean't to be facing. He had a little rivalry with Magnum T.A in the weeks before Magnum's crash, but, Magnum was due to face Flair at the event. Brad Armstrong was just floating around, squashing several non-relevants. So the match felt like a last ditch match-up for Garvin, who was definately due a belt along the line.

The opening stretch is pretty great, you feel the intensity of both men wanting to impress, felt like a straight out wrestling fight. Some Southern chain wrasslin' is the major portion of the middle of the match thus far, but both men make it look like it's very relevant to the match. When they go at it standing, it's great, great great great. But they keep the match on the mat, albeit in Garvin's favour. His antics in the ring helps bring the crowd alive early, just as any opener should. Great finishing stretch, with Garvin going all out to quickly dispose Armstrong before the match expires. He just misses out, most likely costed the opportunity to win from throwing Armstrong to the outside, and doing very little in that time.

Big surprise, imo. Didn't expect a match like this. Armstrong was made to look very good by Garvin, who would of benefitted from a victory, but he had most of the momentum of the match. However, ***1/2.

*Hector Guerrero & Baron von Raschke vs Shaska Whatley & the Barbarian*
Next up, one former members of Paul Jone's Army, Baron von Raschke, along with Hector Guerrero, up against the bald headed geek, commonly known as Shaska Whatley & the Barbarian. I am not sure what made Raschke leave the Army, or whether he was kicked out in accomadation for the Ragin' Bull & the oh so Ravashing One, Rick Rude. Hector was involved through being the Ragin' Bull's former tag partner.

Onto the match, it is the definition of undercard match with some irrelevants. It isn't terrible, though. Whatley and Barbarian work over Guerrero pretty well, they keep at a good pace, the eventual hot-tag for Raschke and he gets the pin on Whatley. Not much else to its credit, but it serves well for the crowd. *1/2

*Kansas Jayhawks vs the Russians U.S Tag Title Match*
A good old fashion America vs foreign country type shtick. Kansa's Jayhawks up against Ivan Koloff & Khrusher Khruschev. The latter were heading, or falling, down the card after the babyface turn for Nikita Koloff, who was the only person in the trio that was getting a push. Jayhawks were feuding with Cornette & the Midnight Express, but with the return of the Road Warriors, they got pushed down the card. However, a U.S Tag Team Title match-up.

I like Ivan's ringwork when he is in, very traveled and experienced, former WWWF Champion. He knows how to work. Can't say the same for REPO MAN. Mantell is the Jayhawk's member who does most of the work in the ring, on TV matches, and in this one. Bit of a no-brainer. Better all round than his partner. Given time, and some strengths to work with, Koloff/Mantell would be a great match. Work very well together. Mantell decides eventually, enough is enough, and grabs a whip. Think I forgot to mention it is No-DQ. The Russians grab their chains, and it's over. A solid, quick match. Nothing to shout out about, but at the same time, I believe it's a better match than anything on the Wrestlemania 2 card bar 1-2 matches. **1/4.

*Wahoo McDaniel vs Rick Rude Indian Strap Match*
It's time for Wahoo McDaniel up against a long time Florida adversary, Rick Rude, with the manager of the Army, Paul Jones. Indian Strap match, dubbed the match McDaniel has never lost. I don't have too much to shout out about their JCP rivalry, just a few promos.

Nothing to note. It's not even a slugfest. Not a brawl, not a bloodied war, nothing. Big disappointment.
Dud

A match with no build up on JCP WorldWide. But it's on Starrcade, *Sam Houston vs 'Superstar' Bill Dundee.*
This match was surprisingly fun. Dundee made everything look good, Houston is a very good seller. Fun contest, good action. **3/4 It's a pity I don't have too much to say about it.

*Paul Jones w/ Ragin' Bull vs Jimmy Valiant w/ Big Mama*
Hair vs Hair match

One of the biggest rivalries of this time period, Jones and his Army up against the Boogie Woogie man. I am not too sure how it got started, though. Match was built up as a feud ender 3-4 years in the making. After getting cheated out at the Great American Bash, and losing his own hair, Valiant decided to put up his 'Big Mama's' hair to get one final chance at Paul Jones.

This was never going to be a classic, technical match. They weren't very good wrestlers, at least in 1986. But they made well with the tools at their disposal. Jones had his cheating antics, using weapons hidden in his trunks. Valiant had his heart, his guts, and the crowd 100% behind him. **1/4. Fiesty brawl with heart. Nailed it perfectly. The pop for the ending is just terrific. Everyone had waited years for it.​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Kenny, don't watch the Unbreakable three way match on that pack. It sucks. :hayley3
> 
> Punker vs Danielson TV series? I'll add in PPVs too for the FUN:
> 
> ...


I thought you rated the MITB match higher than OTL?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fun read, Descrated. I was tempted to pop on Starrcade '87 - Chi-Town Heat recently. This may have been the inspiration needed to do so. As if I needed inspiration to watch 80's Southern Style Crockett territory wrestling.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> WM 21 review in my blog . HBK/Angle... good, bad, great, shitty... READ AND FIND OUT .
> 
> And thanks to work, I'm now no longer ahead with my reviews. Gotta get 22 finished for 2morrow lol.


I just read your blog for once. :cool2

I agree on some of your ratings (MITB, Taker/Orton, HBK/Angle) but I enjoy HHH/Batista more than most and I wouldn't go as low on that, and I don't think JBL/Cena was as bad as a DUD. WrestleMania 21 is honestly one of my favorite WrestleMania's, quite underrated IMO.



HayleySabin said:


> Kenny, don't watch the Unbreakable three way match on that pack. It sucks. :hayley3
> 
> Punker vs Danielson TV series? I'll add in PPVs too for the FUN:
> 
> ...


Don't really remember any of the TV matches, so I'll just comment on their PPV matches.

Over The Limit - *****3/4*
Money In the Bank - ****1/2*


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Bryan:

OTL- ****3/4, I just love this match
MIB- ****, could have been much better without AJ


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Punk/Bryan (Over The Limit) - ****3/4
Punk/Bryan (MITB) - ***

The first was an incredible match! Just two guys going all out trying to capture the biggest prize in the business. However for the MITB match... I enjoyed it, but it felt like they were trying too hard to make it 'epic'. I felt the match dragged a little bit compared to the OTL match which flew by and I was still wanting more by the time it end. 

No doubting these two have incredible chemistry and I look forward to another series of matches in the coming years


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh. I need to write a paper on genetic enhancement and all I want to do is lie in bed and watch JOHN BOY matches all day, why must my work ethic be so GOD AWFUL? 

Anyways, if you aren't a hardcore John Cena fan like myself, The John Cena Experience will be the worst WWE produced documentary you will probably ever watch as it's more or less about "John Cena ; The Pop Culture Icon" rather than "John Cena ; The Wrestler". Hell, I'm more or less convinced after watching it that John Cena is a cyborg of some sort built in a laboratory by Vince McMahon to be the ULTIMATE company guy, as he represents that company so fucking well it's insane ; he wears his own merch pretty much everywhere he goes, he describes the WWE as Vince McMahon himself would describe it, he makes the company boatloads upon boatloads of cash, his work ethic is insane both inside of the ring and outside of the ring (wish I was like that, I'm such a lazy fuck), does everything that the company asks him to do, and did I mention that he makes them BOATLOADS OF FUCKING CASH?

JOHN BOY. COMPANY GUY.

:cena3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ubreakable sucks ass. I remember when I first joined this forum it was one of those matches I had to check out because "ZOMG! MELTZER GAVE IT 5 STARZZ!" Yeah I've seen it about 5 times and still don't get the hype for it. 

Anyway, I've still yet to start the Taker/Orton series. Turns out I still had Michaels/HBK Unforgiven (which was surprisingly good), Survior Series tag, Edge/Hardy Cage (forgot to take Summerslam from the pack :cussin Now that's out the way, I can finally get a start on it. But I gotta first do some studying, so I probably won't be starting it until another 2 hours


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels vs HBK is sure to be a match we all need to see. :sabin

which Shawn match were you meant to be referring to, Sharkboy? Vs Orton, Jericho, Kane?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Believe he's referring to Masters, since it's an '05 pack.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*The Great American Bash 2006:*

Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs Jamie Noble & Kid Kash - ★★★¼
- Another quality tag match involving four agile cruiserweights. Crowd is dead during several parts but Londrick always bring some life back into them by doing their high speed spots, specially after hot tags. An enjoyable opener that sets the pace to follow for the rest of the night. The Pitbulls also do a good job of their own so overall, this was good.

Finlay vs William Regal - ★★¾
- Most posters here enjoy this combination but personally, I wasn't into this. After Lashley had to be removed because of the enzymes thing which forced two heels to go at it instead. This killed the crowd as they are really dead for this and even chant "Boring" at one point. That took me out of it and besides, this was very slow paced. I love Benoit's matches with these two but there's just something that's missing which the Benoit matches have that makes this average. I don't know, I just couldn't get into it and Hornswoggle's presence is never a good thing.

Gregory Helms vs Matt Hardy - ★★★
- I enjoyed this one quite a bit. Some nice back and forth as well as spots such as the neckbreaker from the top rope. That said, it's amazing how much Hardy dropped after the Edge feud. They completely jobbed him out after that and here he barely makes the card in an unannounced match.

Undertaker vs Big Show - ★★★¼
- Great Khali suffering the same enzymes problem as Lashley was a blessing in disguise here. Big Show fills in his role in this Punjabi Prison match and what we get is much better than anything anyone could've gotten out of Khali. Some pretty good action involving both Taker and Show and despite going for 20 minutes, it doesn't even feel that long as the minutes go by fast. Also liked some parts such as Show getting Taker back in the ring right before the final door was going to be closed and then Taker doing a Crossbody after climbing the smaller structure. Plus his Tarzan like dropkick off the rope hung to the outside structure was pretty awesome. Really liked this one even if it's not the best Taker and Show have come up with in the ring.

Bra and Panties Four Way - 0
- Don't care.

Mr. Kennedy vs Batista - ★½
- This is lol-worthy. From Kennedy's head being busted open when his head hits the steel too hard to his complete dominance of The Animal for about five minutes and then Batista choking him in the corner that results in a disqualification. A trainwreck made fun if you find humor in each part of the match like I did.

Rey Mysterio vs Booker T - ★★★½
- Surprisingly enjoyable for a Booker match. Really good back and forth action for 15 minutes. Finish may be a bit overbooked but makes perfect sense as it starts the Chavo/Rey feud with the former turning heel by attacking Rey here after that brutal chair shot. Booker wins and your new World Champion is KING BOOKAH! One of the best matches involving Booker in WWE and I hope their rematch is as good as this. Also I wish the crowds would already let Eddie rest in peace. The man has been dead for over half a year at this point and they still chant his name as if Rey is not deserving of his own chants. I guess I have to thank Vince for his stupidity and complete exploitation of Eddie's name, though. 

*Overall:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (It was a mixed bag with some good and some below average stuff throughout the card. The best stuff were more than enough to make this worth a watch, though. And even when the show gets boring, JBL is truly on his game on this night and his commentary cracked me up throughout the 3 hours, specially during the Finlay/Regal match. He's just too awesome as a talker and truly carries Michael Cole.)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love that Londrick/Pitbulls match from GAB. Absolutely hated the Punjabi Prison but I still find it better than the 2nd one.

Booker/Rey was a solid main event too. I need to rewatch Finlay/Regal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MASTERS.

Wonderful match. I <3 it. It was his (Masters) best for a long time. Till 2010 came along. After it was all said and done, I have to say his sub-ten minute brilliant affair vs Dolph on Superstars was the best match I've seen from him. With the Drew McIntyre bouts at the near, near top. The margin is unspeakably thin as a matter of fact. I know the Dolph match was worked so damn interesting it hooked me for life.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Starrcade '86 done. The hype has probably been met. Three great matches, a solid undercard, and only two very underwhelming disappointments. Latter two on the list below just blew chunks. The rest, especially the undercard, was surprisingly solid. And the two main events, perfect. All in all, great event. To add, think I'll probably be the only man alive who enjoys Ron Garvin/Big Bubba as much as I did. Same for Jimmy Garvin & Brad Armstrong, I suppose.



Spoiler: Starrcade 86, final half



*Ron Garvin vs 'Big Bubba Rodgers'*
Louisville Street Fight
Starting off the second half with a feud that started over, something. I don't remember Garvin calling out Cornette, Express or Bubba. They did attack him a week prior the show, but over what, no idea. Ron Garvin was one of the 'contenders' for Ric Flair's World title, along with Dusty Rhodes, roughly 30 minutes before they decided to make give it to Nikita Koloff. Weird. Garvin's match was mean't to be his Mid-Atlantic title up against Nikita's U.S Championship, a unification bout. That changed with Magnum involved in a car crash, turning Nikita face to go up against Flair. As for Big Bubba, a few months as Cornette's body guard, getting involved with Dusty Rhodes & Baby Doll, before she turned against Rhodes. They tried to keep it alive, while Rhodes had bigger fish to fry.

Ronnie Garvin, the man with the hands of stone. Some people loved him, but that was very regionally. Most notably in the Mid-Atlantic. Even tho I suppose I am typing this a year too soon. Bubba comes into the arena, wearing a suit, and Cornette wielding a gold coloured racket. Got to say how much Bubba reminds me of Chris Pratt.
Completely like this match. Fun brawl, zanny, wacky, immense punches, heavy hitting movez, and an absolutely mesmeric piledriver. Took to after the show to read some other reviews, they trash it. They have no soul, this is just great fun. Finish was hard to explain, but doesn't take away from it for me.
***

*Tully Blanchard w/ James J. Dillon vs Dusty Rhodes*
First Blood
So far, feels every worthwhile match has a gimmick. 2 gimmick matches left to go, too. Onto their backstory, Dusty & Tully have always had a rivalry, probably even before the establishment of the Horsemen. Over numerous titles. United States, Television, World title. They have bad blood, and what perfect way to settle it than a first blood.

Got to big up Dusty's entrance. Walking from the dressing room, through the arena, with a different theme song than the usual. Big time feel! Somehow, J.J is bleeding. Didn't see how. So rare to see a man as loved as Dusty, the crowd just eats everything he does. His antics, offence, comebacks, promos. Everything I've forgotten. The early portion is Tully making sure that Dusty can't claw into his forehead. Every grasp for Tully's forehead is met by him cowering into the corner. Done well. These two work well, extreme polar opposites. The common man, Dusty, and the rich, weasel, scummy Tully. They focus on earlier injuries, like Dusty's weak leg from a few months ago, and the leg injury that the babyfaces caused to Tully a month before, to weaken down the mobility of the other. They are going for the Dusty finish early on, with the referee taking some damage. Referee out, Tully taking a mountain of punches to the forehead, but he gets that cleaned up before the referee stirs. Tully hits coins at Dusty's face, who gets busted open as a result. As the referee wakes up, he immediately sees Dusty's forehead. BLOOD!
I was looking forward to this, they had a fantastic match-up earlier in the year, had it at ****1/4, before taking it down to ****. But this match, doesn't hold up very well. *. Gutted. Bitter disappointment. They work around the first blood well, but a very cheap finish, and next to nothing happening.

*Midnight Express w/ Jim Cornette vs the Road Warriors w/ Paul Ellering*
Scaffold Match-Up

Dubbed 'Fight of the Skywalkers'. They had a rivalry before the Road Warriors took a hiatus, or suffered an injury. They were back now, with the intention of getting revenge. The Midnight Express have had a scaffold match before, in Mid-South. But in this one, they were 'afraid' of the heights. Built wrong. I'd just be too afraid to fight off against the powerful behemoths that were the Warriors, 15ft above the ring. Interested to see they make this work, since I can't imagine it being good.

Wasn't sure how to write this out, since its a scaffold match, not really conventional. But, they do very well with what they are given. It was always going to be about the suspense and the probabilities rather than just a classic. And, it works. The Warriors win, after a Gladiator style finish. After the match, Cornette taking that bump seemed very unnecessary. Looked like it snapped his ankle.
**, for surprisingly me. Fun brawl.

*The Minnesota Wrecking Crew vs Rock 'n' Roll Express*
Steel Cage

Rematch of the Great American Bash '86, this time, in the feud deciding Steel Cage. The immensely popular Rock n Roll Express, the World Tag champions, after winning the belts from the Midnight Express. Both teams had a score to settle, though. And this was it.

Starting off with Ole and Robert, the latter wanting some revenge for the injuries at the hands of these two, and the Horsemen. Nothing too shout off about thus far, the heel team taking it careful, with the Express trying to take the match to them. Robert kneeing the cage wall establishes an early target for the Andersons, though. And its game on. Ole is in now, and when he is in the mood, and has a target, bones get broken, muscles get busted, careers get shortened. I like to think I've seen a good bit of the RNR Express, and I haven't seen Robert as the targetted wrestler. Time to see how he works, selling for extended periods, and attempting the babyface fightback. It's definately Ricky's strength. Very few things better in tag team pro-wrestling than an Anderson's beat down. Ricky is in, and Ole battering him into the cage. Paw-wow. Completely eats the wall.

Rock n Roll just taking an absolute battering for the past 10 minutes, standing no chance against the physicality of the Wrecking Crew.Started with Robert, now it's Ricky, eating move after move. Ricky attempts a fightback, including Arn flopping around like a fish after eating a DDT. But, Ole doesn't like that one bit. And begins to absolutely break Ricky after tagging in. Talk about one sided thus far. For now 15 minutes. Big celebrations by Arn after hitting his famed Spinebuster, but no to pinfall victory thus far. Excellent exchange of punches by Ricky, which Arn sells in the usual Southern style, but, flawlessly. Crowd completely eats up the potential hot tag, but Ole catches in time. Morton catches Ole in a tricky pin, and it's a victory for the Rock n Roll Express!

Surprising finish that came out of nowhere. Ole made a mistake, hit with a dropkick, and they were cost a victory. That was 20 minutes of an absolute battering for the Express, but they escaped with a victory. ****. 'Just'. The beatdown from the Wrecking Crew was just phenomenal. Roughly 20 minutes of doing what both teams do best, deal damage, eat offence. On any other day, I'd probably be a bit more critical, or more favourable. One of them 'mood matches'.

And noowww, time for the main event.
*Nikita Koloff vs Ric Flair, World Title*
Time to see if Nikita is worth the hype. Up against the greatest. As stated several times before, Flair was scheduled to face Magnum. Nikita was the replacement. Not the worst replacement, but one some of the fans probably couldn't take to due to the 'Russian' heritage, despite being Minnesotan born.

The usual Flair start against a big powerhouse, gets thrown around, his chops eaten up, he takes the break to the outside to replan. Would be nice to see diversity, but it is what he does best. Some trash-talking, some WOOing from the Naitch.
Was never going to manage to write this match like I wanted to, so I thought, write a review after the match.

These two do it perfectly. I was skeptical, but they worked it so well. A physical war, hard hitting. Both men playing to their strengths. 20 minutes went by with no problems. They just battered the life out of one another. The finishing was a bit dusty, though, with Nikita forgetting about the referees, and just knocking them out. Took the entire roster to tear these two apart. Winner by disqualification was Ric Flair.
***3/4​



Matches in order of starz.

Minnesota Wrecking Crew vs Rock n Roll Express
Ric Flair vs Nikita Koloff
Jimmy Garvin vs Brad Armstrong
Ron Garvin vs Big Bubba
Bill Dundee vs Sam Houston
Kansas Jayhawks vs the Russians / Paul Jones vs Jimmy Valiant
Midnight Express vs Road Warriors
Baron von Raschke & Hector Guerrero vs Shaska Whatley & the Barbarian
Tully Blanchard vs Dusty Rhodes
Rick Rude vs Wahoo McDaniel​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DAMN IT C2D.

Is Taker-Big Show actually that good? I remember it being one of their weaker matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not. It's a trash match in every sense of the word. DUD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I love that Londrick/Pitbulls match from GAB. Absolutely hated the Punjabi Prison but I still find it better than the 2nd one.
> 
> Booker/Rey was a solid main event too. I need to rewatch Finlay/Regal.


I enjoyed it as did I enjoy the Batista/Khali match. Weird I know. 



KingOfKings said:


> DAMN IT C2D.
> 
> Is Taker-Big Show actually that good? I remember it being one of their weaker matches.


If you trust my opinion, I think it's good. Don't know the general consensus on it but from what I saw, I liked it. That said, it's still not as good as their best matches. (No Way Out 03, No Mercy, Cyber Sunday 08 and ECW 06)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Michaels vs HBK is sure to be a match we all need to see. :sabin
> 
> which Shawn match were you meant to be referring to, Sharkboy? Vs Orton, Jericho, Kane?


Ah fuck, lol 

I saw that you mentioned Ziggler/Masters on the last page. I had no idea that ever happened. Must check it out asap.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed.

Michaels vs HBK would certainly be a DOOZY.

The real question is though, who the hell would do the job if the title was on the line?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Michaels vs HBK would certainly be a DOOZY.
> 
> The real question is though, who the hell would do the job if the title was on the line?


The one that doesn't do coke. :hbk2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Michaels vs HBK would certainly be a DOOZY.
> 
> The real question is though, who the hell would do the job if the title was on the line?


Depends, Pre or Post-98


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ah fuck, lol
> 
> I saw that you mentioned Ziggler/Masters on the last page. I had no idea that ever happened. Must check it out asap.


Yeah definately do. Great, great match. All centered around both men's specific submission holds. Worked so different than what you would have expected. Beauty of Superstars circa 2009 - 2011.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE HEART-BREAK-KID LAYS DOWN FOR ABSOLUTELY NO-BODY!

In response to that Show-Taker match though.... If you enjoy the Punjabi Prison match then you'll probably enjoy their really shitty casket match that Taker and Show put off in 2008. It's a novelty so I guess it's not that bad of a watch but from a ratings standpoint it's pretty fucking horrendous.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> In response to that Show-Taker match though.... If you enjoy the Punjabi Prison match then you'll probably enjoy their really shitty casket match that Taker and Show put off in 2008. It's a novelty so I guess it's not that bad of a watch but from a ratings standpoint it's pretty fucking horrendous.


Actually I've been meaning to watch that casket match for quite a while. Already gone through their NM and CS matches, both of which are RULE.

Unfortunately I can't do that today as I have a shitload of school work to finish.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok then I see I provided some comedy for the evening....

Anyway, just finished watching Ziggler/Masters. Great match. Man, why the hell didn't I watch Superstars more often? It's the same reason why I don't watch main event. I don't know what it is but there's something about wrestling on a Thursday night that's just....meh. Something always comes about or I just genuinely don't have interest in watching the shows.



Choke2Death said:


> Unfortunately I can't do that today as I have a shitload of school work to finish.


Lol, I had my text book on my lap the entire time while watching Ziggler/Masters. As a matter of fact right now I'm actually posting on this forum and 'studying' at the same time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Tell me about it.

That Genetic enhancement paper I had to write earlier? It has barely been written. Since I have to go back to the city tomorrow, I'm gonna go hang out with my girlfriend for a little bit tonight while the paper is due online in 4 and a half hours. FUCK MY FUCKING TERRIBLE WORK ETHIC.

The good news however, is that we're a mere week away from our noble hero regaining his WWE Championship.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Lol, I had my text book on my lap the entire time while watching Ziggler/Masters. As a matter of fact right now I'm actually posting on this forum and 'studying' at the same time.


I had this entire week off and I said I would do over 10 of my unfinished homeworks but the week is over and I've barely finished 2 of them. Every time I wanna get going, something keeps distracting me and I skip it for another day. It's a constant problem as the past two years, I've left nearly everything for the final weeks and been forced to work non-stop in order to get a break heading into the summer.



KingOfKings said:


> Tell me about it.
> 
> That Genetic enhancement paper I had to write earlier? It has barely been written. Since I have to go back to the city tomorrow, I'm gonna go hang out with my girlfriend for a little bit tonight while the paper is due online in 4 and a half hours. FUCK MY FUCKING TERRIBLE WORK ETHIC.
> 
> The good news however, is that we're a mere week away from our noble hero regaining his WWE Championship.


Funny because today I finished a write-up about doping which was supposed to be finished 4 months ago. My work ethic sucks too and the sad thing is, I'm capable of pulling the best grades possible but I'm just a lazy fuck that saves everything for the last day.

No good news will be coming my way until I graduate in two months. Then I should be having an awesome summer and life should only get better from there on.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Four months ago?

You remind me of a good friend of mine. He RARELY goes to class ever, he passes in assignments super-late always (as in, MONTHS late), and he's legit the definition of a procrastinator. I mean, I thought I was bad because I could have passed in a paper anywhere from February 1 - March 31 and I started it today but DAMN :lol.

YES. EVERYTHING GETS BETTER WHEN YOU GRADUATE. OF COURSE.

:cena2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

In my case, it's just that the teachers are never serious about the deadlines so I completely ignore it until it's really late and the grades are about to be set. And I've been lucky because I always get the grades I aim for. Last year I had English B and got a warning early in the course but by the end of it, I got myself an A, which might have more to do with how good my English is.

To not get too off-topic, is this Kane vs Big Show match in ECW 06 any good?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I never saw it, but since I can't stand their "chemistry" , I'm inclined to say no anyways :lol.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Work ethic. Wish I had one. I still am believing I don't deserve the grades I get, I never go to class (I calculated a 8-12% attendance this year). I always leave things to the last minute, but put massive effort in at that point. Suffering from semi-somnia helps for cramming (I got by with 2, 2-hour sleep "blocks" a night for the 2 reading weeks last semester). Living with 2 massive wrestling fans, one being a near-alcoholic and the other being a pothead doesn't help. Nor does the fact my friends always seem to call me right before I do my "planned" work :hmm:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ok then I see I provided some comedy for the evening....
> 
> Anyway, just finished watching Ziggler/Masters. Great match. Man, why the hell didn't I watch Superstars more often? It's the same reason why I don't watch main event. I don't know what it is but there's something about wrestling on a Thursday night that's just....meh. Something always comes about or I just genuinely don't have interest in watching the shows.


:mark:

I can tell you all of the prime matches from 2010 to check out. If you're interested. I'm working on 2011 Superstars right now, but I can already plug a few Masters matches haha. Either I'll head to 2009 or 2012 next for the fun. If I don't find a way to start up on NXT. I do want to see those McIntyre vs Rollins matches. Which on paper make me want to jump with joy b/c of how awesome they can be.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I am behind 2 chapters in AP Psych, it's an online course so I was expected to do work over Spring Break but that fuck that, too much awesomeness.

Also, watch this, NOW :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah yes the short gem. Sheamus vs Henry can always be worth a fun way to kill time. No matter if it goes three or ten minutes. Good stuff.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i just finished downloading all of wwf raw 1999 :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now you can relive the one match career of Beaver Cleavage anytime you want. :hb


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

who


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, English has always been easy. Passed my English GCSE exams two years ago. Mathematics is my only weakness lol. 

On topic, I am watching the RAW show before Wrestlemania 19. The first hour has been okay with Austin calling out the ROCK and then getting thrown out of the arena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> who


you'll see. lolz - what a terrible gimmick.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what matches to look out for throughout the year?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

On the subject of school work, as lazy enough last semester to watch Benjamin/HBK in my cognitive psych class one day.

Also, Taker/Show series:

NM '08 - ****
CS '08 - ****1/4
Cage '08 - ***1/2
SS '08 - lol


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

King Kenny said:


> what matches to look out for throughout the year?


Pretty much every Raw main event from January through like April is fun as fuck.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

-Mystery- said:


> Pretty much every Raw main event from January through like April is fun as fuck.


:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> what matches to look out for throughout the year?


Honestly? None that I can remember. An inferno match happens in like January of that year. It's fun b/c it's Taker vs Kane in that environment again. Rest is per usual in the Attitude Era.



Pierre McDunk said:


> On the subject of school work, as lazy enough last semester to watch Benjamin/HBK in my cognitive psych class one day.
> 
> Also, Taker/Show series:
> 
> ...


You're a good man. For a second I thought the Cage rating was meant to be the Casket match. Everyone knows the Casket match is so hilariously poor. Don't know what happened that night. Rest of the bunch is :mark: Lets just throw in the Smackdown 2009 match from April in the mix and forget about Survivor Series.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Some random ratings from 2009 PPVs.

MITB WM25 - ****
Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H - Night of Champions - ***1/2
Rey Mysterio and Batista vs. Big Show and Christ Jericho - Hell In A Cell - ***1/2
John Cena vs. Big Show vs. Edge - WM25 - ***
Undertaker vs. CM Punk - Hell in a Cell - ***
Undertaker vs. CM Punk - Breaking Point - ***
Shawn Michaels and Triple H vs. Cody Rhodes and Ted DiBiase - Hell in a Cell - ***1/4
Edge vs. Jeff Hardy - RR 09 - **1/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Off topic, C2D you haven't wrote GCE yet? 

And on topic:



HayleySabin said:


> :mark:
> 
> I can tell you all of the prime matches from 2010 to check out. If you're interested. I'm working on 2011 Superstars right now, but I can already plug a few Masters matches haha. Either I'll head to 2009 or 2012 next for the fun. If I don't find a way to start up on NXT. I do want to see those McIntyre vs Rollins matches. Which on paper make me want to jump with joy b/c of how awesome they can be.


I can't believe you had to ask if I was interested! I was all hyped up reading the "I can tell you all the prime matches from 2010 to check out." Then my heart stopped at "If you're interested"  



King Kenny said:


> i just finished downloading all of wwf raw 1999 :mark:


I downloaded it twice and on both occasions never managed to finish it. Such a horrible year storyline and match wise.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Show & Taker had a cage match? :mark: Gotta see it as soon as possible! Alongside the casket match for good measure. :lol



sharkboy22 said:


> Off topic, C2D you haven't wrote GCE yet?


What exactly is a GCE?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

sharkboy22 said:


> Off topic, C2D you haven't wrote GCE yet?
> 
> And on topic:
> 
> ...


that makes me sad.  oh well ill get to see STONE COLD!


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

You know what match is under rated as fuck? DX vs Legacy from Breaking Point 2009, Submissions Count Anywhere :mark:, I watch it for the first time since it the PPV the other night and holy shit just awesome in every sense of the word, ****1/4, everyone go watch it if you haven't yet, truly good shit


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> You know what match is under rated as fuck? DX vs Legacy from Breaking Point 2009, Submissions Count Anywhere :mark:, I watch it for the first time since it the PPV the other night and holy shit just awesome in every sense of the word, ****1/4, everyone go watch it if you haven't yet, truly good shit


I don't recall the match being very good on my last watch which was probably ~5-9 months ago. I put it at ***. What made you rate it so highly?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LOVE that Breaking Point match. It's a really awesome brawl with a unique stipulation that had some great 2-on-1 segments while either member of DX had to try and fend off Legacy. ****

Does anyone have a link where I can watch/download the whole episode of *RAW 8/14/2006*? Reason I ask is cause I was there live and haven't seen it since that day. It was the night where fake Hogan first came out to address Orton, then the REAL Hogan shows up unexpected. Oh what a moment to experience...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Does anyone have a link where I can watch/download the whole episode of *RAW 8/14/2006*? Reason I ask is cause I was there live and haven't seen it since that day. It was the night where fake Hogan first came out to address Orton, then the REAL Hogan shows up unexpected. Oh what a moment to experience...


Here you can download any Raw you want: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-weeklies/721602-wwe-monday-night-raw-archive-1993-2012-a.html

And if you want it uploaded to youtube or something, I can do it tomorrow. (right now I'm three Raws away from that one)

On the topic of DX tag matches, how is their match with Rated RKO from Cyber Sunday 2006? I loved the NYR 07 one, so I hope this one is at least half as good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Here you can download any Raw you want: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-weeklies/721602-wwe-monday-night-raw-archive-1993-2012-a.html
> 
> And if you want it uploaded to youtube or something, I can do it tomorrow. (right now I'm three Raws away from that one)
> 
> On the topic of DX tag matches, how is their match with Rated RKO from Cyber Sunday 2006? I loved the NYR 07 one, so I hope this one is at least half as good.


Holy hell, thanks for lookin out. (Y)

The Cyber Sunday match is probably that, half as good. It's pretty basic stuff and I think I recall a screwy finish. In the ** 1/2 - *** range I believe.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What is everyone's WWE 2003 MOTY? HBK/Jericho unanimously?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™;16097130 said:


> What is everyone's WWE 2003 MOTY? HBK/Jericho unanimously?


I can't imagine that getting very many people's votes in here, honestly. Candidates would probably look like this:

Angle vs. Benoit RR
Rock vs. Austin Mania (super overrated imo)
Angle vs. Lesnar (SSlam or the IronMan)

Then probably HBK/Jericho, but it's in the mix. Mine personally is Angle/Benoit, but I haven't seen it in several years.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Big fan of that DX vs. Legacy match at Breaking Point '09. Wonderful brawling action, unique Submissions Count Anywhere stipulation, superb performances, flawless two against one ending, etc. Got it ranked at ★★★★.



Choke2Death said:


> On the topic of DX tag matches, how is their match with Rated RKO from Cyber Sunday 2006? I loved the NYR 07 one, so I hope this one is at least half as good.


DX vs. Rated RKO at Cyber Sunday '06 was a very good, near great tag team match. Wish it had a better match type stipulation though. Would probably have it at ★★★.



SaviorBeeRad™;16097130 said:


> What is everyone's WWE 2003 MOTY? HBK/Jericho unanimously?


Angle vs. Benoit at Royal Rumble '03 was by far the best singles match I've ever witnessed, so I'll obviously side with that one. Sh*t was perfect. Legit ★★★★★ match in my books.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What is everyone's WWE 2003 MOTY? HBK/Jericho unanimously?


Lesnar/Angle from Smackdown. 

Lesnar/Benoit ranks pretty highly as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What is everyone's WWE 2003 MOTY? HBK/Jericho unanimously?


Mine is Angle vs Benoit from Royal Rumble.

Other worthy contenders are Angle vs Lesnar (Ironman & SummerSlam), Angle vs Taker (Smackdown), Benoit vs Lesnar (SD), Austin vs ROCK (WM), Team Austin vs Team Bischoff (SVS).


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Huh, few days ago people were shitting on the Angle/Benoit RR..


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I just finished watching the casket match with Undertaker and Big Show. I may have enjoyed the Punjabi Prison match but certainly not this shit. Seriously, fuck this match. Both men look so out of life that every move they made has also made me more and more sleepy. It's like they are about to pass out and the match is just so slow. Plus what the fuck is up with Big Show flipping over that first casket and just trying to walk away? That made no sense at all! I was laughing the whole time because this match is such a mess and a 180 of the excellence they delivered at No Mercy and Cyber Sunday. ★ for this only because of the humor I found in how bad it was.



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Huh, few days ago people were shitting on the Angle/Benoit RR..


It's kinda mixed. Those of us who give it 5 stars and there's those that have it around 3. I'm obviously in the former category.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Amazes me how Lesnar's only been in the company for two years, yet he's produced so many GOAT matches. Just off the top of my head...

* Lesnar vs. Rock at SummerSlam '02.
* Lesnar vs. Undertaker at No Mercy '02.
* Lesnar vs. Angle at WrestleMania 19.
* Lesnar vs. Angle vs. Show at Vengeance '03.
* Lesnar vs. Angle at SummerSlam '03.
* Lesnar vs. Angle on SmackDown 9/18/03.
* Lesnar vs. Undertaker at No Mercy '03.
* Lesnar vs. Benoit on SmackDown 12/4/03.
* Lesnar vs. Guerrero at No Way Out '04.

Even loved his return match against Cena at Extreme Rules '12, that was also GOAT.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Stars on vs Benoit on SD? Dont think I've ever seen it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Agree on Lesnar. So many great matches in a short period. He has one of my favourite moveset as well. A mixture of power moves and technical. He also has one high flying move (SSP). Yes it was botched in the grandest stage of them all but it can be executed properly as shown in the video below.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Wouldn't it be nuts if he pulled it out this year? That would be the biggest mark out moment for me


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;16099674 said:


> Wouldn't it be nuts if he pulled it out this year? That would be the biggest mark out moment for me


 The bigger mark out moment is if I see blood :brock


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

someone link me Lesnar/Benoit PLZ.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I can't believe you had to ask if I was interested! I was all hyped up reading the "I can tell you all the prime matches from 2010 to check out." Then my heart stopped at "If you're interested"


Finlay vs Mike Knox ~ *1/7*

Christian vs William Regal ~ *1/14*

Chris Masters vs Chavo Guerrero Jr vs Primo Colon ~ _1/28_

Evan Bourne vs Carlito Colon ~ *2/4*

Christian vs Zack Ryder ~ *2/11*

Rey Mysterio vs Mike Knox ~ *2/18*

William Regal vs Evan Bourne ~ *3/4*

Chris Jericho vs Goldust ~ *3/4*

Christian, Mark Henry, & Yoshi Tatsu vs William Regal, Jack Swagger, & Zack Ryder ~ *3/18*

Rey Mysterio vs Tyson Kidd ~ *3/25*

William Regal vs Yoshi Tatsu ~ *4/1*

The Hart Dynasty vs The Dudebusters ~ *4/1*

Christian vs Chavo Guerrero Jr ~ *4/8*

The Hart Dynasty vs The Dudebusters ~ *4/29*

Chris Masters vs Dolph Ziggler ~ *5/13*

Chris Masters vs Cody Rhodes ~ *5/20*

Christian vs Dolph Ziggler ~ *5/20*

Chris Masters vs Luke Gallows ~ *6/24*

30 Seconds Over Tokyo vs DZP ~ *7/1*

Christian vs Curt Hawkins ~ *7/1*

Chris Jericho vs Yoshi Tatsu ~ *7/15*

Chris Masters & MVP vs The Dudebusters ~ *7/22*

The Hart Dynasty vs The Usos ~ *7/22*

Curt Hawkins & Vance Archer vs The Dudebusters ~ *8/5*

Chris Masters vs Chavo Guerrero Jr ~ *8/12*

Chris Masters vs Jack Swagger ~ *8/19*

William Regal vs Goldust ~ *8/26*

Curt Hawkins & Vance Archer vs The Dudebusters ~ *8/26*

Chris Masters vs Drew McIntyre ~ *8/26*

Goldust vs Ted Dibiase Jr ~ *9/2*

William Regal vs Goldust ~ *9/23*

Chris Masters vs Vance Archer ~ *10/7*

William Regal vs Darren Young ~ *10/7*

William Regal vs Darren Young ~ *10/21*

Chris Masters & MVP vs Drew McIntyre & Cody Rhodes ~ *10/21*

Tyson Kidd vs Zack Ryder ~ *10/28*

Jack Swagger vs Kaval ~* 11/4*

Luke Gallows vs Vance Archer ~ *11/4*

Drew McIntyre vs Kaval ~ *11/11*

Curt Hawkins vs Trent Barreta ~ *11/25*

Mark Henry vs The Usos ~ *11/25*

Tyler Reks vs Trent Barreta ~ *12/2*

William Regal vs Darren Young ~ *12/2*

Tyson Kidd vs David Hart Smith ~ *12/2*

Zack Ryder vs David Hart Smith ~ *12/23*

The Usos vs Yoshi Tatsu & Darren Young ~ *12/30*

William Regal vs David Hart Smith ~ *12/30*

Chris Masters vs Tyler Reks ~ *12/30*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

MASTERS :mark:

i need a Masters Set :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well it may only be 12 matches, but all of his work from Superstars in 2010 is a solid set to start with. As you can tell.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What's so great about Masters? I remember him being meh in his first run, was he like Jesus on Superstars in his second run?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What's so great about Masters? I remember him being meh in his first run, was he like Jesus on Superstars in his second run?


Pretty much. Masters developed into a great babyface and an excellent seller of injured body parts. Top notch worker for sure.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

MASTERS :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

100% what JE187 stated.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

So can someone direct me to links of this Masterpiece? So I can mark too?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Got ninja'd, was gonna post the same match.  

Everyone in here can start calling me Corey if you like. Cause, ya know, that's my name.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the classic 2011 match. If you want to see their 2010 match too, I can link you to the entire episode of Superstars.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

some i found


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Why did they release him? No plans for him?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell yes. The 2011 match vs Swagger. Masters' selling of his back in it is :mark:

As far as Masters release goes: We'll never know the reason for it other than they felt the need to not want to use him anyone. Simple as that as bunk as it is. It seems like they weren't willing to give him a second chance from his first tenure despite the gross amount of work he put into his matches & getting himself over with next to no solid exposure.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's a shame. I remember his debut back in 2005 and he was involved in a backstage segment with Ric Falir, think he told Flair to "watch and learn" or something like that. I just checked his match history and he was defeated just ONCE in 2005 (single matches only). It looked like he was going to be a star in the WWE because they were clearly protecting him with the Masterlock challenges and that long unbeaten streak.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then he was paired with Carlito. It all went to hell following.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Carlito and Masters was actually a pretty good pairing. They put on are hell of a performance in the EC, did extremely well in the rumble but then the 'E decided to fucked up their momentum by not having them win the tag titles at WM22. I don't get it, Show and Kane were broken up by the next PPV.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Carlito and Masters was actually a pretty good pairing. They put on are hell of a performance in the EC, did extremely well in the rumble but then the 'E decided to fucked up their momentum by not having them win the tag titles at WM22. I don't get it, Show and Kane were broken up by the next PPV.


 By the Spirit Squad...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Carlito is the pits. That's the problem. _"Lets push him over Masters."_ Company showed their budding intelligence right there.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> By the Spirit Squad...


Oh please.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I fucking hate that nappy headed fuck.

There has only been one PPV Triple H match that has been so dull that I fell asleep numerous nights in a row attempting to watch it, and that's that horrible Unforgiven 2007 match between The Game and that piece of shit Carlito. I have Kennedy type levels of hate for him, so when Summerslam 2007 came along and we had Kennedy vs Umaga vs Carlito...... Even Umaga couldn't save that fucking shit.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Ever since the Attitude Era, the WWE hasn't done very well with tag teams. Sure, they've had a few good tag teams (i.e. MNM, World's greatest tag team and etc) but most tag teams break up way too quickly. The most recent example of bad tag team booking is Team Rhodes Scholars. They should have won the belts at the Royal Rumble which would have led to Team Hell No's break up but what does WWE do? Break up Team Rhodes Scholars instead. I know they're back together now but still, they could have began the Kane - Bryan feud after Rumble. Oh well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE has done fine with tag team during the Ruthless Agression Era. Even post said era teams the like of Priceless/Legacy, Hart Dynasty, & JeriShow all got more than enough time to thrive and create something good. Let us not even forget about the best thing about Kofi Kingston's career next to his feud vs Randy Orton in his tandem with Evan Bourne. It was a nice shade of a spritely babyface tag team that the company was missing for quite a while.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RUTHLESS ... AGGRESSION.

JOHN CENA SAID THAT IN HIS DEBUT.

:cena4


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Talking about Evan Bourne.. Where the hell is he?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was a mix of both suspension & injury. So the answer here is floating around until they bring him back. iirc he's all healed up these days. Much like Christian. Post-WM should see some returns coming down the pike.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Probably smothering in a cloud of weed smoke like I'm doing ATM.

There's a tag that he had with Cena at one point that I own on DVD where he plays an excellent FIP. The guy's size mixed with his undeniable talent makes him an excellent babyface almost by default, he's fantastic. Plus we share the first same name so I'm obviously a huge fan of the fucker (okay that's a terrible reason I know, but Bourne-Henry was awesome as well).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His real name is Matt though. :troll

Yep, Cena & Bourne vs Sheamus & Edge from 2010 rules. Got to be the strongest tag team match of the year by near default. It's staggeringly great.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> WWE has done fine with tag team during the Ruthless Agression Era. Even post said era teams the like of Priceless/Legacy, Hart Dynasty, & JeriShow all got more than enough time to thrive and create something good. Let us not even forget about the best thing about Kofi Kingston's career next to his feud vs Randy Orton in his tandem with Evan Bourne. It was a nice shade of a spritely babyface tag team that the company was missing for quite a while.


 The thing with Priceless/Legacy is that they were two guys only put together to make Orton look strong. It started off good with them forming a tag team and joining Orton but they didn't really challenge for the tag team titles after 2008 IIRC. The tag teams you mentioned were good ideas but it's just that that they broke up way too quickly. JeriShow lasted 6 months and Kofi - Evan lasted 3-4 months. I know Evan Bourne was the reason the team ended but if Evan didn't get suspended/injured then I honestly doubt that they would have continued for too long. Kofi's tag team partners usually last for one reign (i.e. Punk and Truth) anyway.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought Carlito was a great performer, sure he was a spot monkey at times but he was DAMN entertaining.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> The thing with Priceless/Legacy is that they were two guys only put together to make Orton look strong. It started off good with them forming a tag team and joining Orton but they didn't really challenge for the tag team titles after 2008 IIRC. The tag teams you mentioned were good ideas but it's just that that they broke up way too quickly. JeriShow lasted 6 months and Kofi - Evan lasted 3-4 months. I know Evan Bourne was the reason the team ended but if Evan didn't get suspended/injured then I honestly doubt that they would have continued for too long. Kofi's tag team partners usually last for one reign (i.e. Punk and Truth) anyway.


Legacy was formed all the way back in June. They had plenty of time before they became "lackeys" of the sort. They challenged for the WWE Tag Team Championship during the Summer of 2009 too. Right before their program vs DX started. Once again, not much of lackeys when they were being considered credible rivals to Shawn Michaels & Triple H.

And tag teams from the Attiude Era lasted in length themselves? I count about four sustained duos. One of which were hardly remembered till about 2000 in Too Cool. Of course for the rest that was only a product of their environment. Much like how in the 80's - 90's the tag teams were in a healthier supply. It's dwindled down as the years rolled on. Length doesn't dictate the worth of a quality tag team as it is. JeriShow lasted half of a year. That's actually pretty good for the rapid rate of WWE. Especially among two main event level workers at that. If they duo is good, that's what makes them a good tag team. Not solely on tenure.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

TLC IV IS BY FAR THE GREATEST TLC MATCH EVER!!!!!!, NOTHING COMES EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love it too. Unsure where I rank it. It's high though. TLC I, III & Shield vs Hell No & Ryback are close contenders for the "best" in my eyes, as well.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

shield vs team hell no/ryback is GOAT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It might be for me too. Simply b/c instead of playing off a grand wild spectacle like all the others listed did, the story portrayed out of the six man war was phenomenal. Such a stellar babyface performance by Danielson combined with all of the other glorious x-factors meshed in.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The carnage and destruction is unbelievable. So many table spots, ladder bumps and Kane was a freakin standout in the match too. TLC IV, I am talking about. I don't think many people have watched this match to credit it enough though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Legacy was formed all the way back in June. They had plenty of time before they became "lackeys" of the sort. They challenged for the WWE Tag Team Championship during the Summer of 2009 too. Right before their program vs DX started. Once again, not much of lackeys when they were being considered credible rivals to Shawn Michaels & Triple H.
> 
> And tag teams from the Attiude Era lasted in length themselves? I count about four sustained duos. One of which were hardly remembered till about 2000 in Too Cool. Of course for the rest that was only a product of their environment. Much like how in the 80's - 90's the tag teams were in a healthier supply. It's dwindled down as the years rolled on. Length doesn't dictate the worth of a quality tag team as it is. JeriShow lasted half of a year. That's actually pretty good for the rapid rate of WWE. Especially among two main event level workers at that. If they duo is good, that's what makes them a good tag team. Not solely on tenure.


 They did? My bad. I can see where you coming from with length because if we were to judge solely on length title reigns then Colons or Team Hell No would be great teams. However, with length and number of title reigns, it gives you more opportunities and time to create special moments. That's why I dislike the current division today. Teams hardly last a year and are usually given 1 title reign. The lack of competition doesn't help either. How many times have we seen Team Hell No vs PTP? 

The AE era had many tag teams. Brothers of destruction, Hardy Boys, Dudley boys, APA, E and C, Too Cool, New age outlaws, Right To Censor and etc. Whereas now, there aren't many recognisable teams.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've often credited it as the multi-man TLC match to capture the strongest essence of chaos out there. It really is insane for some good portions of the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> They did? My bad. I can see where you coming from with length because if we were to judge solely on length title reigns then Colons or Team Hell No would be great teams. However, with length and number of title reigns, it gives you more opportunities and time to create special moments. That's why I dislike the current division today. Teams hardly last a year and are usually given 1 title reign. The lack of competition doesn't help either. How many times have we seen Team Hell No vs PTP?
> 
> The AE era had many tag teams. Brothers of destruction, Hardy Boys, Dudley boys, APA, E and C, Too Cool, New age outlaws, Right To Censor and etc. Whereas now, there aren't many recognisable teams.


Oh, the division is in shambles right now. We've seen Hell No vs PTP, PTP vs Usos, & Usos vs Colons way too many times that I care to count. It's a division that is looking to remain stagnant until a sudden resurgence by the WWE to try and make the specific area relevant. I was only commenting on how I thought you kind of didn't give the post Attitude Era years a fair shake with tag teams. Purely subjective I suppose, but there were some quality duos and points to where the division was quite relevant. That's where I was looking to form an agreement with you on.

Well, see some of those teams could be slated in the same direction of not lasting quite as long too. Right to Censor for example. Post WrestleMania 17 they were disbanded so they were only around for about 7 months. Then you had the constants beginning with New Age Outlaws and eventually into Hardys, Dudleys, & Edge/Christian. I did forget to mention APA. I'll give you that one. Completely slipped my mind, yet their tenure lasted longer than nearly all of the others. 2000 was the prime of the division though. Without a doubt. At least when comparing with the 80's & early 90's. I'm just stating how not every team lasted as long as the few constants did. Plus, when it does divulge into my point about it being a product of their environment. Sadly, much like the level of the company, tag team wrestling isn't being treated as a hot button area anymore. Such a shame.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

TLC 2012's slow pace kills it and Ryback dosen't help either, TLC 1 is overrated and TLC ||| goes down on every rewatch for me.

TLC IV blows all of those out of the water, Only ***** TLC match in history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Safe to say I disagreed with every bit of that. 

Don't know which point the most: the "slow" part of the 6 man hurting it when there was no slow aspect about it, & Ryback was good in his role during the match, or TLC I being overrated when it is the match that set the tone and showed what the match is all about. Insane, outlandish spots for the sake of innovation and putting the tag team championship on a stage never seen before. If it wasn't for TLC I, there kooky spots seen in TLC IV never would have been materialized. It all started with the first. For that point alone, it shows it is anything but overrated.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I think I may be the only one that ranks TLC II the highest out of the first four multi-team TLCs


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It has the Edge spear spot. That's all it has on the other matches for me. But I'll always love the match regardless. :hayley3


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@Hayley

I'm sometimes in the arguing mood and sometimes i'm not. Today, I'm not plus you would probably destroy me verbally in an argument considering how big of a wrestling expert you are. My point is simple though, TLC IV is the greatest TLC match ever and MOTY for 2002, miles ahead and beyond.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It all suits opinion too. Not going to deny any form of love for the match. b/c believe it or not, I nearly hold it in the same regard in which you seem to do. In fact, if I don't watch it before I crash into dreamland, I'll be very surprised at myself. Got to get a taste of the madness sparked fun after discussing it. Safe to say you have no complaints with it being labeled as the best RAW match ever during their Ten Year Anniversary list, eh?

As far as a MOTY from 2002 goes. My answer will probably always be Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar Hell in a Cell. Angle vs Mysterio from Summerslam & various tags do come close themselves.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I can't place them all without a re-watch but Shield/Hell No & Ryback is one of my favorite "fun" matches in a long time. It just took me by complete surprise and it's definitely my most watched match of 2012. Not even Ryback can knock the match down, in fact i think he plays quite a integral part of it. I love Ambrose and Rollins but i have to say Reigns impressed me so fucking much during that match and has done every time i've seen him. 

*****1/2* for the TLC 12 match. 

Hell, i need to re-watch every TLC soon, because i can hardly remember any of them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hmm. Let me run down the list of TLC matches:

TLC I: Edge/Christian vs Hardys vs Dudleys ~ SummerSlam 2000
TLC II: Edge/Christian vs Hardys vs Dudleys ~ WrestleMania 17
TLC III: Chris Jericho/Chris Benoit vs Edge/Christian vs Hardys vs Dudleys ~ Smackdown 2001
TLC IV: Kane vs Chris Jericho/Christian vs Rob Van Dam/Jeff Hardy vs Bubba Ray Dudley/Spike Dudley ~ RAW 2002
TLC V: Edge vs Ric Flair ~ RAW 2006
TLC VI: Edge vs John Cena ~ Unforgiven 2006
TLC VII: Edge vs The Undertaker ~ One Night Stand 2008
TLC VIII: Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk ~ SummerSlam 2009
TLC IX: JeriShow vs D-Generation X ~ TLC 2009
TLC X: The Miz vs Jerry Lawler ~ RAW 2010
TLC XI: Edge vs Kane vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio ~ TLC 2010
TLC XII: CM Punk vs The Miz vs Alberto Del Rio ~ TLC 2011
TLC XIII: The Shield vs Team Hell No & Ryback ~ TLC 2012
TLC XIV: CM Punk vs Ryback ~ RAW 2013

Awesome. The only one I'm drawing a blank on when it comes to holding up is the TLC 2010 match. Project can be done in a jiffy.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It all suits opinion too. Not going to deny any form of love for the match. b/c believe it or not, I nearly hold it in the same regard in which you seem to do. In fact, if I don't watch it before I crash into dreamland, I'll be very surprised at myself. Got to get a taste of the madness sparked fun after discussing it. *Safe to say you have no complaints with it being labeled as the best RAW match ever during their Ten Year Anniversary list, eh?*
> 
> As far as a MOTY from 2002 goes. My answer will probably always be Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar Hell in a Cell. Angle vs Mysterio from Summerslam & various tags do come close themselves.


That's where i originally watched it from, but did you look at the nominations Kane/Austin, Jeff/Taker, HHH/Foley etc. I'm sorry, they are all great matches but pitting them against something with as much quality as TLC IV is just wrong. 

TMPT/Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho, Owen Hart and The British Bulldog/Steve Austin & Shawn Michaels, Owen Hart/The British Bulldog (3/3/97), Mick Foley/Terry Funk (5/4/98) and TLC IV would have been all my nominations, with TLC IV still coming out on top. 

As for the MOTY statement, TLC IV is far superior to anything that was produced in 2002. It even surpasses some of my favorite matches like Brock/Taker HIAC, HBK/HHH Summerslam, Rey/Edge vs. Benoit/Angle NM etc. Something about all that CARNAGE puts it above everything else.

RAW 10th Anniversary is a great show though, I did like all the awards that were given out and Jericho's leather outfit, makes me :mark: and :lmao at the same time.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cheers for that Hayley, noted them all down so i can begin soon on that hilariously fun project.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh man. Undertaker vs Hardy. Brilliant match. Think I may take that over TLC IV since I'm a sucker for a great story in a match.

I stand by my 2002 MOTY claim. TLC IV would be a high contender, but certainly not number one for me.

EDIT ~ (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Edge-Taker TLC isn't good. Edge-Cena isn't GREAT either, it's mindless fun but it wouldn't reach three for me IMO.

III & XIII are the kings for me. When it comes to singles TLC matches I'd probably go with Flair-Edge as the best although you can't do any wrong whatsoever with Punk-Hardy or Punk-Ryback. If I didn't adore the cell so much and if the cell didn't spawn at least 3 MOTYs and the GOAT match, the TLC would probably be the GOAT gimmick match for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JeriShow vs DX is bullocks of a match too. The only TLC matches I don't enjoy are those three. Well, I'd lie if I said I couldn't find enjoyment from the Unforgiven & ONS match if I shut my brain off. The JeriShow vs DX match just sucks to watch. Bad match with a boring atmosphere.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena-Edge hasn't stood the test of time with me, It's at ***1/2* right now. Taker-Edge still rules though, That bump Taker off the ladder was nasty, The creative use of the ladders were good too. ****3/4* for me.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I thought Carlito was a great performer, sure he was a spot monkey at times but he was DAMN entertaining.



I agree, though I don't recall him being a spot monkey. Maybe when he was paired with his brother and gimmick matches, but nothing sticks out.

Exactly when did Carlito start pissing people off?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Problem in both is they're far too contrived. Which is a shame. Undertaker in a TLC match sounded like tons of fun on paper. Not to mention how excited I was when the Cena vs Edge rivalry was going to culminate in a TLC match.

It was right from the start, Tony. :hayley1


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Match was far too contrived for my tastes TBH. Garbage spot after garbage spot.

Punk-Hardy was awesome, but not as awesome as the epic cage encounter they would have shortly afterwards. There's a gimmick that hasn't produced many classics when you think about it ; the steel cage match. The best cage match that I have is at ***** 1/4*, and as a matter of fact I had myself a little mini project a few months ago to check and YES... Nothing has changed, the cage is still the most mediocre gimmick match that's used alot.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Taker/Edge i remember being just laughable, especially the go home sequence bump :lol


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It was right from the start, Tony. :hayley1



That's not cool. *goes to grab apple, no apple there* Shit.

I should check out that Punk/Hardy cage match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The beauty of the gimmick is when it is used for the correct purposes. Such as a steel cage implying the sign of the end of a major grudge. Go watch Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard from Starrcade '85. You'll see how beautiful a violent spectacle of a cage can be. Fact it is the most common stipulation/gimmick match is the only reason one can find it diluted over a gimmick in the same field of I Quit or Elimination Chamber which only have a handful. Where as some of those are fairly poor themselves, despite only having a few. The curve on their side isn't too strong themselves. I wouldn't undersell the importance or appreciation for steel cage matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There has only been one classic "I Quit" match (OUT OF FOURTEEN) ; JOHN CENA vs JBL.

The rest have been anywhere from atrocious to good/great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know I prefer Cena vs Orton over Cena vs JBL. Again, best I Quit match I can think of is Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard from Starrcade '85. With Flair vs Funk Clash of the Champions '89 a hair behind.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Sting/Mick Foley from WCW 92' and Rock/Mick Foley from Rumble 99' are up there too, Cena/JBL had a nasty botch thru the announce table that makes me cringe everytime i see it and not in a good way.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Walked into Walmart today and see an entire display holding Wrestlemania's 1-15 in their entirety with their own individual packaging, $10 a pop. I don't really collect anymore, but I was shocked to see these. Does anyone know if these DVDs contain the blurs/censors or not? I might pick a few up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They shouldn't considering WWE's lawsuit on showing the Attitude Era WWF logo & saying "WWF" has been cleared.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> They shouldn't considering WWE's lawsuit on showing the Attitude Era WWF logo & saying "WWF" has been cleared.


Yeah I know about that. Just wasn't sure as to whether or not these were released prior. I've been disconnected from the product for some time.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

SpookshowTony said:


> I agree, though I don't recall him being a spot monkey. Maybe when he was paired with his brother and gimmick matches, but nothing sticks out.
> 
> Exactly when did Carlito start pissing people off?


I think it was when Flair buried him in a promo :flair3

EDIT:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Makaveli said:


> Yeah I know about that. Just wasn't sure as to whether or not these were released prior. I've been disconnected from the product for some time.


There were released this month. So it wasn't prior.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Was that a LEGIT Ric Flair promo? Holy shit, He seemed serious.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on CENA-Angle from No Way Out 2005 (watching now for the first time in years)?

Remember it being decent, but I was far more tolerant of Kurt's bullshit back then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Uninspiring. Not worth watching over again.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Was that a LEGIT Ric Flair promo? Holy shit, He seemed serious.


I'm sure there was a reason behind it. It was rumoured that Carlito was a pretty lazy worker and often not motivated to take the next step.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Alim said:


> I'm sure there was a reason behind it. It was rumoured that Carlito was a pretty lazy worker and often not motivated to take the next step.


I see the little pep talk helped :lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just watched Trips-Austin from NWO 2001, It's seemed so unstructured and there's basically nothing in-between offenses, hated the ending too. Goes all the way down to a ****1/4* from a whooping *****1/2* on first view.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Just watched Trips-Austin from NWO 2001, It's seemed so unstructured and there's basically nothing in-between offenses, hated the ending too. Goes all the way down to a ****1/4* from a whooping *****1/2* on first view.


You learn fast.

:sabin

JOHN BOY vs Angle was fucking weird. It had everything to make a good match but it just seemed like they were going through the motions and as a result of that, the pacing was off big time. I'll throw two and a quarter at it because the story is solid but the pacing is so shitty that the story kind of needs to carry it big time. Good for TV but unacceptable for a semi main event on a PPV, if it's a match that big it needs to be at least three IMO, CONTEXT MATTERS TO ME DAMN IT.

JOHN BOY VS KHALI. The Judgment Day match is awesome, let's see if he can put together a compelling babyface performance this time @ ONS.

OH BTW a long time ago somebody in here asked who I thought was the best all around performer in the WWE today, and it's CM PUNK with a grand total of NOBODY coming close at the moment. Bryan, Cena, and Jericho are top notch but Punk is just so spot on at everything now that I seriously can't believe that he isn't main eventing Wrestlemania. FUCK.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I lost interest in regular WWE programming starting at EC but when I last watched anything I thought the best wrestler in the company was Cesaro tbh.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Makaveli said:


> Walked into Walmart today and see an entire display holding Wrestlemania's 1-15 in their entirety with their own individual packaging, $10 a pop. I don't really collect anymore, but I was shocked to see these. Does anyone know if these DVDs contain the blurs/censors or not? I might pick a few up.


1-14 are just the anthology releases put in a new box so they have WWF blurred/censored throughout. 15 is a new release with no blurring but still has lost of edits (any choking, bossman hanging etc removed) so it's best to look for the originals 1999 release.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao @ WWE being cheap bastards in releasing the Anthology sets as the "new" WrestleMania DVDs. So glad I haven't bought any yet.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

For the TLC talk on the last page:

*The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I Summerslam 2000 

★ ★ ★ ★

The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 17
★ ★ ★ ★ 1/4


The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001
★ ★ ★ ★ 1/2


Bubba & Spike Dudley Vs Kane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 
★ ★ ★ 3/4


Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006
★ ★ ★ 3/4

John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 
★★★ 1/2


Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 
★★

CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009
★★★★

DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 
★★


Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010
★★


Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010

★★★ 1/2*

*Shield Vs Ryback & Team Hell No - TLC 2012
★★★★ 1/2

CM Punk vs Ryback - Raw
★★★ *​


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

TLC IV only a ****3/4* match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

^^ You forgot the Punk/Miz/ADR match from TLC 11.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Someone go watch Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard from Starrcade '85 and post about it. gogogoggo


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Someone go watch Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard from Starrcade '85 and post about it. gogogoggo


I'll take you up on that challenge and write a review on the match, If you can find me a link. 

EDIT: found one - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32jse_magnum-ta-vs-tully-blanchard-steel_sport#.UVlSVtFsNCk

Now to start REVIEWING.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Can never be enough love for Magnum/Tully. Makes me sad neither men made a career into the early 90s WCW. Would of made that time period even better. Scary.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I remmeber seeing that match a few years ago, when a friend boughtthe Starrcade 85' DVD. From the memory i give it a ****1/4 rating. It was a great fight, with tons of blood and straight up violence. It was the perfect way to end this feud, everyone should watch this match is a WCW classic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's weird when you think that back then, and even a few years ago, there were Steel Cage classics everywhere - Magnum/Tully, Flair/Harley, Foley/Gilbert, Angle/Benoit, Angle/Anderson, Edge/Matt, Flair/HHH, LAX/XXX, Angle/Joe, Angle/Jarrett, Henry/Bryan, so on. And nowadays, you barely see very good Cage matches, let alone classics.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Angle/Jarrett?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What is everyone's WWE 2003 MOTY? HBK/Jericho unanimously?


Either _Brock/Angle SD or SS_. Although i really like the _HBK/Jericho WM_ match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd probably say Lesnar/Angle from Summerslam. A lot of great stuff from that year though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> someone link me Lesnar/Benoit PLZ.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ip6i_chris-benoit-vs-brock-lesnar_sport?search_algo=2

Sori for the double post


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

JoeRulz said:


> Angle/Jarrett?


Lockdown 2011. Awesome match despite questionable booking.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Henry/Bryan is recent. As are the TNA ones. So it contradicts your post. Pretty sure WWE had run maybe 2-3 cages in the past 12-18 months.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What I mean by "nowadays" is mostly 2012-present. None of those listed were in that timespan (though some do come close).


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

ATF said:


> Lockdown 2011. Awesome match despite questionable booking.


Terrible match.


----------



## wwffans123 (Feb 13, 2009)

Thanks


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Khali-Cena ONS > Angle-Cena NWO.

FACT.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Khali/Cena was awful


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was decent, but Angle/Cena NWO is WAY betteer.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Awfully good.

Their Judgment Day match is legitimately awesome as well. That was Cena's bread and butter in the mid stages of his career, working with BIG MEN kind of like how Hogan worked with bigger guys during his main event run (except Cena does it better). I really enjoy how Cena has expanded his range to being one of the better FIP tag workers out there, as well as having the ability to go out there with somebody the size of a Rey Mysterio (regardless of GOAT talent) or a Punk or a Bryan and have a DIFFERENT kind of match, but at the same time go out there with a Khali and make shit happen also.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah the Judgment day match was ok, but the ONS one was bad, at least for me


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You can keep the pace slower in those matches because you can believe that when a big guy like Khali chops your head off with one of those big rights, you'll stagger around more so than if a guy like Kurt Angle hits you. That NWO match had such a lackluster pace and although the match itself was okay it almost feels as if they said "FUCK IT" and forgot to bring the intensity they needed.

Ratings for the Cena-Angle PPV series?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Didn't someone post Cena/Angle ratings like last week? Anyway, from what I remember:

No Mercy 03 - ****
No Way Out 05 - ***
Unforgiven 05 - ** 3/4
Survivor Series 05 - ** 

and Cena/Khali One Night Stand 07 - **


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Survivor Series is an overbooked mess right?

OH SHIT. I haven't seen that No Mercy match in so fucking long but I've heard fantastic things about it lately as I'm pretty sure it was *CAL* who came out and said once upon a time that it was a classic or some shit like that. WHAT AN ANGLE MARK :lol.

The FIRST BLOOD match they had on RAW was quite interesting. *** 3/4*.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Ratings for the Cena-Angle PPV series?


No Mercy 2003 - ★★★★
No Way Out 2004 (w/ Big Show) - ★★★½
No Way Out 2005 - ★★★¼
Unforgiven 2005 - ★★★
Survivor Series 2005 - ★★½


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Then again 2007-Cena worked a great match out of Bobby fucking Lashley. He was a wrestling machine that year.

Just discovered that Cena & Show had many Triple Threats together:
vs Angle
vs Booker
vs Edge
vs Punk


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Since he was mentioned I'd like to go on record to say I fucking hated Lashley.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Watching Survivor Series 2009...

Evan Bourne, Finlay, Matt Hardy, Shelton Benjamin and John Morrison in one team? Holy fuckballs. :mark: :mark:


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

ATF said:


> What I mean by "nowadays" is mostly 2012-present. None of those listed were in that timespan (though some do come close).


Still very unfair to make the judgement, 30 years against 16 months. You'll have a point if it gets to 2015, and no great cage matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 22 review in my BLOG~! today . Got 2morrow off work so I'm gonna try and get WM 23 done tonight ready for 2morrow, then blast through 24 and 25 2morrow, work Wednesday, then 26 when I get home, and finish with 27 and 28 on Thursday while I'm off.

Everyone go watch Angle/Cena NM 03 match. Tremendous stuff. Probably the stand out Cena match/performance before he became a main eventer. Hell it's up there as one of the better Angle performances too lol. Blows every other match they had together away.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Taker/Kane vs Page/Kanyon - Summerslam 2001*

_Cage match for the Unified Tag Titles._

Weird hearing Kane and Taker as the WCW Tag Team champs, i quite enjoyed this really, even though it was basically mainly to get revenge on Page 'cos of the stalking angle, one great spot when Taker does a running big boot on Page, i do love a big boot lol. The ending turns into a 2 on 1 squash for the BOD against Page, then Taker gives Page a chance to just walk away from the cage, then chokeslam's him off the ropes lol, then a last fucking ride.

***

About to watch Austin/Angle from the same event. :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena/Angle NM '03 ****1/4

Nothing from '05 gets higher than **1/2 from me. Just awful.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Austin/Angle - Summerslam 2001*

Fucking brilliant as you all should know by now, just a great contest, bloody, brawly, wrestling-y, moonsault-y, Angle's head smacking off the post numerous times, stunners, slams, the fucking variation of the million dollar dream for crying out loud.

JR "Angle is going commando on Austin"  Plus JR mentioning The Ringmaster 

Fucking loved it ****3/4 - I.Don't.Care


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Wrestlemania 22 - 

Triple H/John Cena - ****1/4
Shawn Michaels/Vince McMahon - ***1/2
Undertaker/Mark Henry - ***1/2
MITB - ***1/2
Edge/Foley - ****1/4

These are the matches I can remember well, I can't remember too much from the other matches but from what I remember they were all solid. Definitely IMO one of the best Wrestlemania's of all time. From when I've seen it in the past the 4 hours go by so quick, which is a sign of a fun show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Wrestlemania 22:*

Triple H/John Cena - **** (crowd helped)
Shawn Michaels/Vince McMahon - ***3/4
Undertaker/Mark Henry - ***1/4 (i would have obviously preferred Taker/Angle but as we got Henry, why was it a casket match?)
MITB - (cant remember much)
Edge/Foley - ****1/4

From what i can remember lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/report-info-mick-foley-dvd-documentary/37983/

Information on the For All Mankind: Mick Foley DVD Set: (sreenshots in link)

*here is a list of confirmed personalities on the interview list –*



> • Mick Foley
> • Jim Gray (Mick’s childhood friend)
> • John Imbriani (Mick’s friend)
> • Dominic Denucci (WWF wrestler in the 70s & Mick’s wrestling trainer)
> ...


*Some further insight into the content and format of the documentary –*



> Standard WWE documentary narrative (moving from childhood, through full wrestling career, to comedy career at the end).
> 
> Plenty of WCW, NWA, ECW and other organisation footage within.
> 
> ...


*Additional fun tidbits and other juicy stuff –*



> Mick goes on record of saying he didn’t like his WrestleMania 20 match, that coming back in 2000 to wrestle was one of the worst decisions he ever made, and how after the infamous Hell in a Cell bumps Vince McMahon came up to him and said he doesn’t want to see anything like that ever again. Foley considers the time period of his role as WWF Commissioner the best of his career.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I hope I'm not the only one who thought Edge/Batista ONS was pretty bad.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Foley's DVD looks pretty awesome. Will definitely be picking it up once it drops in price and i've seen it already... :side:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Foley DVD looks pretty solid, with some excellent people being included on it (Regal :mark. Will definitely check it out.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Might have to pick up the Foley DVD. I'm a sucker for the DVD sets w/documentaries.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Foley's DVD set has potential to be the GOAT. Has there been a match list released yet?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Alim said:


> Foley's DVD set has potential to be the GOAT. Has there been a match list released yet?


Not yet mate, next week i expect


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Can't wait to get that Foley Blu Ray set. HBK and Mick talking about Mind Games??? :mark:

Anyone who has Classics on Demand, they just put in a HUGE update today. Jericho vs HBK 7/21/03 Raw is on the list. Always heard how good this match is, but I've never seen it. :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

TERRY FUCKING FUNK

:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Holy shit, another update on Classics today, Austin/Taker/Rock vs. Rikishi/Kane/Angle, Triple H special ref from 1/18/01 Smackdown. Don't remember this match at all. Fucking fantastic update on Classics this month.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Holy shit, another update on Classics today, Austin/Taker/Rock vs. Rikishi/Kane/Angle, Triple H special ref from 1/18/01 Smackdown. Don't remember this match at all. Fucking fantastic update on Classics this month.


Neither do i lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Neither do i lol


Yep, that's it. Fun match in Chicago, Allstate Arena, so great crowd. Triple H, Taker, Austin, Rock, Angle, Kane all in their prime. :damn


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Despite more often than not the match quality isn't all there, i still enjoy the multi-man matches with talent like that involved.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

WrestleMania 22:

Carlito/Masters Kane/Show - ***3/4*
HHH/Cena - ****3/4*
HBK/McMahon - ****3/4* 
Edge/Foley - *****1/2*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM 22

Opener: **1/2
MITB: ****1/4
Benoit/JBL: ***1/2
Foley/Edge: ****1/2
Trish/Mickie: ***1/2 for the match, ***** for the V-lick
Taker/Henry: **3/4
HBK/Vince: ***1/2
Triple Threat: ***
Cena/HHH: ***3/4


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Random Wrestlemania ratings...

Undertaker/Batista (WM 23) - ****1/2
MITB III (WM 23) - ****
Angle/Guerrero (WM 20) - ****
HBK/Angle (WM 21) - ****1/2
Punk/Jericho (WM 28) - ****1/4
Rock/HHH/Big Show/Foley (WM 16) - ***1/2
Flair/HBK (WM 24) - ****
MITB 4 (WM 24) - ****
Finlay/JBL (WM 24) - ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> I'll take you up on that challenge and write a review on the match, If you can find me a link.
> 
> EDIT: found one - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x32jse_magnum-ta-vs-tully-blanchard-steel_sport#.UVlSVtFsNCk
> 
> Now to start REVIEWING.


Where's the review...:side:



Srdjan99 said:


> I remmeber seeing that match a few years ago, when a friend boughtthe Starrcade 85' DVD. From the memory i give it a ****1/4 rating. It was a great fight, with tons of blood and straight up violence. It was the perfect way to end this feud, everyone should watch this match is a WCW classic


*****.

It's perfection.



JoeRulz said:


> Angle/Jarrett?


:lmao



ATF said:


> Lockdown 2011. Awesome match despite questionable booking.


Yikes. It's awesome in terms of being an easy pick for WMOTY in 2011. If it wasn't for that blasted Hardy vs Sting Victory Road match. TNA was on another level of crap in 2011.



KingOfKings said:


> Khali-Cena ONS > Angle-Cena NWO.
> 
> FACT.


100%.

Cena vs Angle matches are meh outside of their fabulous No Mercy bout. Cal is on point to plug it. Always needs to be see. Great, great match.

---------

Got around to viewing NWO 2012 for the second time today (outside of the opener which I've seen countless times) & most things held up like I expected them to. Intercontinental Championship still rocks, Divas & Sin Cara's matches are poor, the second match needs to be stricken from my mind, yada yada yada. But I had to refresh my memory on the main event. Normally I'm always into Cena vs Show matches. This time around, I wasn't too crazy about their cage. It still never popped for me. Their work in the match is solid. Then it kind of goes to hell with all the awful interference. I was able to stomach Clay stopping Show to even the odds thanks to Ace stopping Cena. All the other goons was blah city. Yeah, Big Show being stopped by Kofi Kingston was wonderful booking en route to putting Show over as a monster heel again. Good grief, WWE. What were you thinking there? Match is solid with a bleh finishing stretch. **3/4. One of their weaker affairs. At least, not a bad match. Which shows how underrated the bulk of their work is.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Wm 22:

MITB: ***1/2
Edge/foley: ****1/2
Vince/HBK: ***3/4
World title: **1/2 (huge dissapoinment) 
Haitch/Cena: *** (* for the ring work and ** for the crowd involvement) 

Needless to say im not a fan of the main event but it's a solid show with a tremendous crowd...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I hate MITB II, III & V 

I & IV are awesome though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't get the love for IV. It's good. Punk winning is a hell of a moment. That's where I end things.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked MITB III. It's filled with mindless spots but it's FUN and that's what I want in a MITB match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

IV has SPOTS from Morrison and Benjy going through a ladder. Win-win from my view. 

I must admit a soft spot for Jeff Hardy eliminating himself during MITB III. Thank fuck Edge won that briefcase later in the year. Kennedy as WORLD CHAMPION?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shelton's spot didn't do anything for me considering it was just recycled from WM 23. Morrison's LADDERSAULT ruled though.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Backstabber off ladder was sweet too


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Carlito with one of the few high points of a match. I'm stunned. But, yeah that rocked too.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Matt Hardy's return to stop MVP winning the match by delivering a Twist of Fate off the ladder to him - was another good moment from that match. It got a great pop too. Honestly I'm a big fan of the WrestleMania 24 MITB ladder match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

***1/4.

Figured I'd let the snowflakes finish the rest of my thoughts on the match. Like it, don't love it. Always easy to watch and a fun way to kill 14 minutes.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

What are your thoughts on the others of the first 5 MITB matches Hayley? 

Presumably the first is highly rated.  Honestly love that match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MITB I : ***** 1/2*
MITB II : *** 1/2*
MITB III : *****
MITB IV : ******
MITB V : **** 1/2*

TBHAYLEY. SEE. NOW I'M CODY.

:cena3


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WrestleMania 22*

Kane/Show Carlito/Master - **3/4
MITB - ***1/2
Benoit/JBL - ***
Foley/Edge - ****1/4
Booker/Sharmell Boogeyman - *3/4
Trish/Mickie - ***1/4
UT/Henry - **1/2
HBK/Vince - ***3/4
Angle/Mysterio/Orton - ***
Pillow Fight - DUD
Cena/HHH - **3/4


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Kane/Show vs. Carlito/Masters *(***) (Although the wrong people won)*
MITB *(***1/2)*
Benoit/JBL *(**)*
Foley/Edge *(****1/2)*
Booker/Boogeyman *(DUD)*
Trish/Mickie *(***)*
HBK/Vince *(****)*
Angle/Orton/Mysterio *(**1/2)*
Pillow Fight - *NO*
John/Triple H* (****1/4)*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TAG TEAM MATCH (Teddy Long Voice) : *** 1/4*
MITB : *** 1/2*
Benoit/JBL : **** 1/2*
Foley/Edge : ******
BOOKERMAN : *DUD*
Trish/Mickie : **** 3/4*
Vince/HBK : **** 1/4*
WHC Trile Threat : ** 1/4*
Pillow Fight : *DUD*
GOAT VS GOAT : ***** 1/4*

GOAT VS GOAT = GOAT.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Kane/Show vs. Carlito/Masters - **
MITB - **3/4
Benoit/JBL - **3/4
Foley/Edge - ****1/4
Booker/Boogeyman - DUD
Trish/Mickie - ***
HBK/Vince - ***3/4
Angle/Orton/Mysterio - ***
Pillow Fight - DUD
John/Triple H - ***3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> What are your thoughts on the others of the first 5 MITB matches Hayley?
> 
> Presumably the first is highly rated.  Honestly love that match.


I ~ ****3/4 (the ideal way the match should have been done. It's near perfection in my eyes. The wild action, Benoit's great character work/selling, the insane memorable spots. lovelovelove it.)

II ~ **** (A very strong sequel, imo. It had its own slew of wonderful moments throughout such as Flair being a boss taking two legit insane bumps without considering his age as a factor. Watching Lashley "climb" the ladder is hilarious.)

III ~ You know what? I've seen this a million times yet I still feel I may need to rewatch it for a final set "rating". I like it. But, sometimes the length of it turns me off and other watches it's fun the whole way through. Kennedy killing Hornswoggle is the spot of the match for me...next to Jeff demolishing Edge.  Then I got back to wanting to slap Kennedy for robbing Punker. Boooourns.

IV ~ ***1/4 (Like I said, I like it and it's good. Lots around here seem to think it is stellar. Surprised, but opinions are opinions. A fun match no doubt. PUNK :mark

V ~ *** (the weakest of the bunch. Some solid spots here and there and it eventually averages out to working overall. Only it falls behind the bunch when it comes to MITB at WM for me. Credit to my general marking out for ladder matches to like this a bit more than others. Maybe. idk. It works for me. Christian returns, Mark Henry debuts in it, & Punk x2 :mark: :mark: )

Just noticed the quality of each seem to go down after every passing year. I didn't even realize this.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

- Wait, is someone on here actually A FAN of Khali/Cena from One Night Stand? That can't be right...

- To the folks talking about the match listing for the Foley dvd, it's been out for a while now actually, like two months.  http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-for-all-mankind-mick-foley-dvd/34107/

- My WWEShop order arrived today, super quick. Definitely gonna dive into the RAW 2010 Blu Ray after I finish some PWG. (Y)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ohoho 

The Cutting Edge segment from 2008 :mark:

& Punk segment from last year. Blu-Ray purchase for me then.

& Nice ratings Hayley, can't say i completely agree on II or IV  each to his own.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All of the Khali-GOAT matches are good/great .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> All of the Khali-GOAT matches are good/great .


You're high, right?  Judgment Day I'll say is good (like ** 3/4 good) but no way on ONS. Big load of malarkey.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> - Wait, is someone on here actually A FAN of Khali/Cena from One Night Stand? That can't be right...
> 
> - To the folks talking about the match listing for the Foley dvd, it's been out for a while now actually, like two months.  http://www.wwedvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-for-all-mankind-mick-foley-dvd/34107/
> 
> - My WWEShop order arrived today, super quick. Definitely gonna dive into the RAW 2010 Blu Ray after I finish some PWG. (Y)


PWG :mark: oh wait, wrong thread...

Cena & Bourne vs Sheamus & Edge in super grand quality :mark:



Ever Wolf said:


> Ohoho
> 
> The Cutting Edge segment from 2008 :mark:
> 
> ...


I love MITB II quite a bit. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're high, right?  Judgment Day I'll say is good (like ** 3/4 good) but no way on ONS. Big load of malarkey.


Yeah, ONS match is bleh. Watchable enough, but nothing good whatsoever.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker/Khali LMS on Smackdown is Khali's best match, end of story, bye bye, See ya later.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I haven't had any bud on me since I ran out last night which makes me very depressed, although I should stop due to needing to get 70 on a math final in two weeks to pass the course and I just got my last test back and it was a 18 :lol :lol THE FIRST TEST I HAVE EVER FAILED. EIGHTEEN! :lol

Yes. Cena-Khali is good. The Judgment Day match is GREAT though, and probably MOTN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More Judgment Day 2007 talk. Yep. I must watch this show again soon. Talked with some buds about it yesterday. It's a lock now. I recall liking nearly every match on it. So this could be some fun.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@Hayley 

About the cage match review, I downloaded it and will watch later.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I don't get the love for IV. It's good. Punk winning is a hell of a moment. That's where I end things.


DAT SUNSETPOWERBOMBFLIP THO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which one? There is a sunset flip powerbomb of a ladder in nearly every Ladder match out there.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Which do you guys consider the better Lita/Trish match, RAW 2004 (It main evented the episode) or Unforgiven 2006 (Trish's last match)?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Unforgiven 2006 for sure.

The BRET homage at the end was executed perfectly (definitely higher than 4 out of 10 some would say) and the fact that Trish was leaving made it all the more unpredictable in her home town. I'd honestly go out on a limb and say that PPV as a whole is a ton of fucking fun with the main event being spotty and contrived but still entertaining as hell with a great moment at the end (CENA WINNING HIS THIRD WORLD TITLE), the DX-MCMAHONSHOW Cell being entertaining but a little convoluted at times, and that Trish-Lita match being another great PPV Women's match in 2006.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I haven't had any bud on me since I ran out last night which makes me very depressed, although I should stop due to needing to get 70 on a math final in two weeks to pass the course and I just got my last test back and it was a 18 :lol :lol THE FIRST TEST I HAVE EVER FAILED. EIGHTEEN! :lol
> 
> Yes. Cena-Khali is good. The Judgment Day match is GREAT though, and probably MOTN.


Haha sounds like me, also making a 41 in my AP Psych class currently, if only my teacher understood :cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It really is depressing.

I'm SO fucking bad at math that it's actually kind of insane? Psych (my major)? 90s. SOC? 90s. EVERYTHING ELSE BESIDES FUCKING MATH? 80-90s. 

MATH? 40s-50s. I need to get 60 on my final in two weeks to be done with math once and for all. DEAR LORD CENA PLEASE SAVE ME.

ANYWAYS. Going to watch JOHN BOY's 12 Championship wins now for the fuck of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No convoluted. DX vs McMahons/Show HIAC rules so much. So, so much. Now that's a Triple H match people need to put over. People die. Big Show's ass + Vince McMahon's head. Big Show yelling into Trips bloody hear. Too much fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WRESTLEMANIA ALL GROWN UP 23 review in my Blog . Only just finished watching it this morning :lmao. Just had the main event to get through since I was too tired last night to watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For some reason I expected you I and to be near identical with our thoughts on that event. Probably b/c its so straight forward. Everyone knows what is good on the show. only MITB seems to fluctuate among various people.

I'm in the vast minority, however, that doesn't mind Kane vs Khali for what it was. Not a DUD contrary to popular belief. Khali has done much, much more damage in other matches. Kane proved his worth on that night. KANE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And speaking of 2007, I'm finally returning to my WHC project. Watching Edge vs Batista Vengeance (I kinda hated their ONS match to be honest), another Battle Royal, Khali vs Batista vs Kane and (ugh) Khali vs Batista today...


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Khali vs. Batista vs. Kane?

:lmao Enjoy.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I was excited for Edge/Kane cause it was something new.
then Edge got injured, then Khali won the title, then Batista was added to the match.

Anyone remember when Batista was added to the Khali/Mysterio match, Teddy said it was so Batista could protect Mysterio.
The only time when i didn't like Batista, read a joke that he had the cheat code to infinite title matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> No convoluted. DX vs McMahons/Show HIAC rules so much. So, so much. Now that's a Triple H match people need to put over. People die. Big Show's ass + Vince McMahon's head. Big Show yelling into Trips bloody hear. Too much fun.


My dad legit asks about this match every time I go over to watch a PPV with my parents. He loves that match. That, and the Summerslam 95 ladder match.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> It really is depressing.
> 
> I'm SO fucking bad at math that it's actually kind of insane? Psych (my major)? 90s. SOC? 90s. EVERYTHING ELSE BESIDES FUCKING MATH? 80-90s.
> 
> ...


Guess your going to need to get #REDEMPTION on that test :cena3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I hate maths too lol. I have a GCSE Maths retake exam in two months. I'm doing well in my A-Level courses, passed most of GCSE exams (including English) but I struggle with Maths.

Back on topic, RAW was shit yesterday. The company is so inconsistent. Two weeks ago, RAW wasn't good then last week it was good and now yesterday's RAW went back to shit again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd say WWE (TV shows mainly) has been extremely consistent over the last few years; consistently shite. Rare do I watch Raw and SD and think it was a "good" show overall. Usually just a match and a segment here and there that I enjoy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/Cal. I actually never watch SD. The only time I've watched SD in the past couple years was when I was sitting front row...

I record Raw then watch it when I have time (usually only need about 30 mins to get through an entire 3-hour episode), but I do watch weekly. Couldn't care less about the other weekly shows.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, Raw and SD nowadays deliever one, two segments that are good, and the rest sucks. There is, occasionally, a good match though.

Cal, you better give WM 24 a good rating or else :frustrate


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I haven't watched a full episode of SD in years. It definitely hurts that it's not live. I know it never has been, but in the past you'd avoid soilers because you were excited to see what happened. Now I just read them because I know there will hardly be anything worth watching. Plus now there's basically no brand split so no exclusive SD wrestlers either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching WM 24 now . Second match (MITB). Always liked this show so I don't see myself hating it unless I somehow despise the top matches.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Anyone else think that Mark Henry vs Randy Orton from Night of Champions 2011 is worthy of a **** rating ? I've seen the match again recently and it's the perfect match for Henry to start his monster reign, great that it was a clean win also. I remember the HIAC match being brilliant also.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is that the one where Henry wins the title cleanly? IIRC, that match is pretty great.

Speaking of Henry, the crowds reaction to his music last night was awesome. They knew Santino was about to get killed. :lmao


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is that the one where Henry wins the title cleanly? IIRC, that match is pretty great.


Yep that's the one, Orton was pretty protected at that point also making it the clean win seem even more shocking. The post match promo from Henry was also brilliant.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haven't seen the match since it aired, but I bought NOC and HIAC Blurays recently so I could watch them in HD . Just need to find the time (once I'm done with my WM reviews). Got a stack of 12 DVD's/Blurays atm that I have had delivered in the last week. Still a couple more to come .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Kidman/Tajiri (Backlash 2002) ***1/4
- Hogan/Taker (Judgment Day 2002) ***1/4
- Kidman/M. Hardy (No Way Out 2003) **3/4
- Hogan/Rock (No Way Out 2003) ***1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree with your ratings, except Hogan/Taker. That was a slow, sloppy piece of shit. Edge/Angle and HHH/Jericho HIAC from the same show are awesome, though.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Tried so hard not to fall asleep during Cena's promo last night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hogan-Taker is actually the best Hogan-Taker match by a mile, take that for what it is.

Hogan-Rock on the other hand? Yeah, that match is pretty much a big pile of fucking garbage.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hogan/Taker is awesome.

Also fuck Raw last night!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Also fuck Raw last night!


I agree with this statement. Atrocious.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I seriously disagree with Hogan/Taker Judgment Day 02 being good. Awful imo.

Though I agree with last night's Raw being atrocious. When was the last time the WWE did a decent go-home show for a PPV?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Besides the last segment and The CENA promo I thought it was one of the worst go home shows I've ever seen, let alone for Wrestlemania.

I really do believe in the back of my mind that there's some possibility The Roid is taking this one too. Maybe it's just the sheer terror of knowing what I'll have to endure for another few weeks but damn... Starting to get nervous before the big dance here, that's for sure. It's a shame when your favorite wrestler of all time and pretty much your childhood icon is having a potential retirement match against another one of your favorites and you give literally zero fucks about it. The build to HHH-Brock is the worst build that I have ever seen to any main event Wrestlemania program in my life and while the match itself may be excellent, this build is just BLEH.

John Cena vs Edge (Royal Rumble 2006) : *3/4 **

JOHN CENA'S GREATEST OPPONENT EVER YOU SAY :lol?


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Agreed with *Choke2Death*'s statement on last night's Raw. One of the worst go-home shows I've seen, it completely destroyed the WrestleMania feel. Only thing I can say I enjoyed from it was the ending segment between Undertaker & Punk, pure genius.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The funny thing is, I only caught the Orton-Sheamus-Show squash and the Shield promo afterwards. I woke up in the morning to go to school, turn on my iPad and searched the results then I was left more underwhelmed than I EVER have with something WWE related.

This is supposed to be the go-home show for WRESTLEMANIA and they gave us this garbage.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

It's hard to deliver on these weekly shows when half of your main roster is part time. I was pleased with the Dolph/Bryan and Jericho/Cesaro matches though but as far as Rock/Cena/HHH/Lesnar they really have nothing left to offer. 

Del Rio/Swagger has had great build up as well I'm not expecting a great match but they can deliver in the ring so it can be solid.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thought Raw sucked. It was fucking abysmal.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

90% of RAW was just unbearable. The only interesting part was the main event, but my goodness that segment was incredible. So much heat and energy. Easily the best segment in this Road to Wrestlemania.

Just finished watching Orton/Flair from Taboo Tuesday. It's fairly short for a main event, but that worked to their benefit as there was very little in the match that dragged or felt unnecessary. Flair's heel performance in that match was probably his best in all of his second WWE stint. Also loved how Orton wanted to finish Flair off rather than running out of the cage. Loads of fun and certainly one of the better cage matches in the past ten years.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Championship Match - CM Punk(c) vs John Cena vs The Big Show (Summerslam 2012) : *** 1/2*

This was good. Nothing more and nothing less for this as they had a few problems going on with the structure of the match. I mean, you have CM Punk and John Cena (two of the three best workers in the company) and you let The Big Show dictate the pace of the match for the most part? This is one of those examples of there being a four star classic that is hidden by a god awful pace. I'm probably a harsher critic on the pacing of certain matches than most but I'll come out and say this ; besides the pacing, this was a really well orchestrated match between three awesome workers. 

This could have been so much more if they had eliminated SHOW from the get go and allowed Cena and Punk to work their GOAT chemistry together on a big stage once again, but I was sort of content with what we got. Besides the Punk-Roid debacle this was easily the worst PPV title defense of Punk's eic 434 reign for me, which is saying ALOT as this match is actually GOOD.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The problem they've had on these Raws is that none of the 'big six' guys have actually had any matches. Taker/Rock/Lesnar/HHH are all 'special attractions' now so they don't book them in matches for a variety of reasons, and without actually competing there's only so much they can do without it getting stale. Cena has barely competed either (does a match against Darren Young even count?) probably due to fear he could get injured. The only guy that would probably have competed each week is Punk but obviously he's nursing an injury he picked up in that match with Kane. Remember the days where we'd have all the stars involved in the big 'Mania matches compete in a big ol' tag match on the go home Raw?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If this were 10 years ago, the main event of last night's RAW would have probably been Cena/Rock vs BROCK/HHH vs Punk/Taker :lol :lol :lol.

WAIT. That actually makes me feel kind of depressed.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rock/HHH/Taker vs Cena/Brock/Punk .Course Cena would have been a heel here


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> If this were 10 years ago, the main event of last night's RAW would have probably been Cena/Rock vs BROCK/HHH vs Punk/Taker :lol :lol :lol.
> 
> WAIT. That actually makes me feel kind of depressed.


You're making me depressed. Bastard.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The good news is though, it's more than likely everything goes back to normal in a week and we have CENA representing the company every week with the strap on his shoulders, which is what everybody wants/needs at this point.

:cena3


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Nah Rock and Brock is advertised for up and coming PPV's and Cena is still crap so there won't be any major changes in the near future.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Holy shit.

Just realized that there's SIX FUCKING RAWS between Wrestlemania and Extreme Rules, what the hell are they going to build with all of that time? We're going to have more sporadic ROID apearances, aren't we?

Why can't we just build a fucking time machine and fast forward to when he retires once and for all? Please?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> Nah Rock and Brock is advertised for up and coming PPV's and Cena is still crap so there won't be any major changes in the near future.


Some might say that sounds boring. :lol 

Anyways, for those who have Classics, the 9/22/97 editions of Raw & Nitro are up. This is the Raw that features the Cactus Jack/Triple H street fight at MSG, I believe. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK to beat the shit out of Cena for the title @ ER, please.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> BROCK to beat the shit out of Cena for the title @ ER, please.


Yeah, and BROCK TO FUCKING WIN


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When BROCK wins the title some time this year I'm going to fucking mark like CRAZY.

Hopefully they give Cena a decent 2-3 month run with it first though, let him have a kind of top-gap feud with Henry or something between the big time Roid and BROCK programs. SUMMERSLAM would be the ideal time to have BROCK-CENA actually, as Cena would have the strap for four months defending it in the main event of the second biggest show of the year against BROCK.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Summer of :brock

Imagine Brock showing up at UFC with the WWE title.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Taken a few day hiatus from my JCP trip through time, about to start into 1987, to check out some Brainbusters in the WWF. What are the common thoughts on their match with the Rockers on SNME 2/18/89? Unfortunately a rather quick match, but ***3/4. Was looking forward to their 2/3 falls match, but saw that it was 7 minutes long. Yikes.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

From what I remember Rockers/Brainbusters matches were always good. You have the contrasting styles of the slower, more methodical veteran team against the brash, young up-and-comers utilizing quick, flashy offense. Rockers were so awesome. 

I know Shawn has said that he learned a lot from working with them.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> From what I remember Rockers/Brainbusters matches were always good. You have the contrasting styles of the slower, more methodical veteran team against the brash, young up-and-comers utilizing quick, flashy offense. Rockers were so awesome.
> 
> I know Shawn has said that he learned a lot from working with them.


For sure on the comparisons. It's a pity that the WWE wasn't the perfect 'arena' for them to get an even better series of matches, or at the very least, some longer matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Their best one is 1/23/89, which is as good as any tag match the WWE ever had.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Their best one is 1/23/89, which is as good as any tag match the WWE ever had.


Will have to get my, err, 'hands', on that then. Any good places for downloads, or up on youtube/dailymotion?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Their best one is 1/23/89, which is as good as any tag match the WWE ever had.


This is FACT.

The Rockers are arguably the GOAT WWF/WWE tag team when it comes to work anyways. They aren't my favorite (that would go to the GOAT STEINERS) but I'll be damned if there has been two consistent workers in that ring for tag team matches as the Rockers were.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forget 'arguably', I don't think any team in the company's history comes close. Anderson and Blanchard would have been #1 had they stayed in the WWF longer, but they had a very short run. Adonis and Murdoch are KIIINDA in that same category but I wouldn't put them above the Rockers if we include worldwide work anyway. WWF never got the RNRs, Fantastics or MX.....yeah, it has to be the Rockers. I can't think who #2 for 'Best Tag Team Runs in WWE History' would be but they'd be a mile behind Marty and Shawn.


EDIT - tag for Desecrated - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9IDiR6kg4g


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jim Ross recently confirmed that the Mid-South dvd is a go ahead on Twitter, slated for a September 10th release. REALLY looking forward to that once since I've heard so many good things about the storylines throughout Mid South and the classics from the mid '80s.

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/mid-south-wrestling-dvd-wwe-payback/38050/

Synopsis for the new Payback ppv is in there too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Should be a great one indeed.

Watching Jericho-Cena from Survivor Series 2008 NAOW :mark:.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Top match. (Y)


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So I'm currently making my way through TV matches from last year, holy shit it is awesome, so many hidden gems and stellar matches


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

World Heavyweight Championship - Chris Jericho(c) vs John Cena (Survivor Series 2008) : ***** 1/4*

What a fucking story being told here in the ring. Cena's coming off of a broken neck here so the question that's being asked is simple ; in his first match back, is Cena ready for the main event against a guy who has been on top of his game in Chris Jericho? Jericho, ever the psychologist tears Cena's neck apart the entire match with stiff shots and clotheslines that give the match a really RAW feeling to it. The pace is slower but when a slow pace is coupled by RAW work it's almost always excellent. Every single shot to the neck is sold as meaning something as Cena is being beaten down and beaten down to the point where it looks completely hopeless and it looks like Cena should just give up. The main question is can Cena get back into this (as Jericho works a whole bunch of full nelson type holds targeting the neck with the LIONTAMER to top it off), and when it all looks hopeless Cena gets a burst of offense just long enough until Jericho regains control.

I like that they keep delaying the babyface comeback and sell Cena's injury like it's hindering him from being as good as he once was. They start breaking out all of these crazy sequences in the latter half of the match that are very Punk-Cena esque in the sense that both Cena and Jericho have such a feel for the other's moveset that they can go in and out of their traditional stuff like it's nothing wit various counters to keep us engaged. Cena's overall babyface comeback happens in bursts as I said before ; Jericho is in control and he'll get a little offense, Jericho will get back in control and Cena will come back with some more offense, keep going until we reach the point where Cena's on the top rope (reminiscent of his injury) and shows NO FEAR anymore, going and successfully hitting the top rope leg drop from his repetoire.

The ending sequence is nothing short of fantastic as you could tell that Cena and Jericho have some really great natural chemistry behind him, plus we get the big moment of Cena winning the title back in his home town and celebrating with his family after just getting back with a surgically repaired neck. This match should keep all of you storytelling and psychology marks like myself happy as fuck, but beware ; if you like a more adrenaline fueled match than this isn't the match for you. It's quite a lot to handle when you take in all of the different aspects of the storytelling and such, but at the end of the day it's one of the more compelling heel performances I've ever seen by Jericho (probably his finest heel performance actually, no joke) with Cena being an excellent sympathetic babyface who finds his groove at the right time.

WATCH.

***** 1/4*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That SVS match rules. Although I still haven't seen Armageddon but I downloaded an entire 08 pack the other day with PPV matches so it's always there for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Armageddon match is near four if not four. I don't remember. Will re-watch when I go home.

FOR NOW THOUGH, I'm about to take a look at one of the most polarizing matches of the PG Era in Randy Orton vs John Cena for the WWE Championship in an I Quit Match @ Breaking Point 2009. All of the pre match hype and shit was really good and now Orton is taking longer than MARK to get to the ring :lol.

:cena3


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Just saw Chris Benoit vs. Brock Lesnar from smackdown in 2003 real good match. here is the link http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ip6i_chris-benoit-vs-brock-lesnar_sport#.UVt8nhzrxb0


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Think I'll throw that Cena/Jericho match on. November 2008 - I had just restarted watching WWE after a seven year hiatus. I remember thinking how strange it was that Cena was just inserted into the WHC match after being gone since Summerslam. No warmup or anything. 

Was that after the Jericho/Batista program where Batista won the belt, then Jericho won it back the next night in a cage match?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> Just saw Chris Benoit vs. Brock Lesnar from smackdown in 2003 real good match. here is the link http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ip6i_chris-benoit-vs-brock-lesnar_sport#.UVt8nhzrxb0


Yup. A real good match. I especially loved the finish. A great example of making one look good without the other looking weak.


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

What's everyone's favorite Smackdown match in 2003 ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FAVORITE? Benoit-Lesnar.

BEST? Angle-Lesnar or Angle-Taker (Angle-Lesnar for me).


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> What's everyone's favorite Smackdown match in 2003 ?


Lesnar/Benoit 
Lesnar/Angle Iron Man match 
Cena/Taker Smackdown
Eddie/Cena Parking Lot Brawl


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

1999 Rejex said:


> Lesnar/Benoit Smackdown
> Lesnar/Angle Iron Man match Smackdown
> Cena/Taker Smackdown
> Eddie/Cena Smackdown Parking Lot Brawl


 Is the Cena/Taker match the one where the 'FBI' interferes?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TALK OF SMACKDOWN FROM 2003!? Ol HayleySabin knows what I'm pluggin:

World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Mysterio & Kidman (8/14/03)

WATCH IT. Serious gem.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Is the Cena/Taker match the one where the 'FBI' interferes?


Nah, it's the one with the A-Train interference. Although their match with the FBI interference is pretty damn good. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> TALK OF SMACKDOWN FROM 2003!? Ol HayleySabin knows what I'm pluggin:
> 
> World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Mysterio & Kidman (8/14/03)
> 
> WATCH IT. Serious gem.


Fuck, I totally forgot about that match. Loved that match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fav 2003 match are just the usual picks.

Lesnar/Benoit
Lesnar/Angle
Taker/Angle
Cena/Taker before SS
Taker/Show/Lesnar

And awesome ava, JE187! rton2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Both Cena-Taker TV matches in 2003 are fucking AWESOME. **** 1/2* and **** 3/4* respectively, some of the best work from Cena's "Thuganomics" days. They outdid that in 2004 with a four star encounter on the go home show for The Great American Bash.

I fucking KNEW *C2D* would jizz over that Orton Avy :lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

1999 Rejex said:


> Fuck, I totally forgot about that match. Loved that match.


:yes



Choke2Death said:


> And awesome ava, JE187! rton2


Yeeeeahhhhh buddy, had to bring back the old school avy. Used this for years, always been a favorite.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Watching some older WWE, I'm a little surprised that Dan Severn didn't work out better. He had a pretty b.a. theme song, a good look, credibility. I dunno. Seems like it should have panned out better. I feel like the aura was there. His work was just never up to snuff. He would have thrived, I think, had WWE used developmental back then like they have now. Speaking of which, what did WWE use before OVW? Did they have anything in '96-'00 or so to get new guys from or send guys to?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Championship - Randy Orton(c) vs John Cena (I Quit Match ; Breaking Point 2009) : ******

YEAH I was pretty wrong about this one. This is "The Viper's" finest outing as a heel and a pretty great piece of character work from both men. If you were looking for one match define everything that both of these characters are all about I would show you this match, as it portrays both the dive into madness Orton takes after his methodical approach to beat Cena fails as the match goes on, and Cena as the super face who will never give up despite what is thrown at him. Even when everything looks completely hopeless for Cena and he gets destroyed by every weapon in the book, he does not fucking give up and to me, that's beautiful storytelling. What makes it even more beautiful is how Orton just fucking goes crazier and crazier as the match progresses, from the facial expressions right down to the body language Orton is fantastic here, same with Cena from the moment he starts to get beaten down, to the trembling body gestures he makes when he is released from the handcuffs and is about to start his babyface comeback.

I can certainly understand why an individual who doesn't look too deep into a match would hate this one ; it has a really slow pace (but instead of being plodding it's downright methodical), and it features a ridiculous amount of SUPER CENA (it's actually the staple super Cena match as far as I'm concerned). The only thing I didn't like about this match is the ending ; Orton is supposed to be menacing as all fuck and he quits within 10 seconds of being placed in the STF? This isn't the fucking MIZ we're talking about here (as him quitting so quickly makes sense for his weakling little slimeball of a character, although their attempt to recreate this match was pathetic), it's THE FUCKING VIPER. Anyways, it's a fantastic piece of storytelling that I seriously recommend to anybody looking for some OMG DEEP shit in their wrestling matches. Their second best match ever together as far as I'm concerned.

About to watch the IRONMAN match between Cena and Orton once again. Gave it three stars the first go around, time to see how JOHN BOY'S 7th World Title win holds up (it probably won't hold up at all). Thoughts on the Cena-Orton series as a whole?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought the Cena-Orton series ranged from alright to good. I loved their Breaking Point match and consider it the best of the series with Orton acting like the sadistic viper he's suppose to be and Cena pulling out the superhero comeback. I also enjoyed their Summerslam 2007 and Summerslam 2009 match, with the latter although it being overbooked to hell, it was still fun to watch for me. The Iron Man match was alright with the highlight being Orton trying to BLOW CENA UP with the pyrotechnics lol


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Coffey said:


> Watching some older WWE, I'm a little surprised that Dan Severn didn't work out better. He had a pretty b.a. theme song, a good look, credibility. I dunno. Seems like it should have panned out better. I feel like the aura was there. His work was just never up to snuff. He would have thrived, I think, had WWE used developmental back then like they have now. Speaking of which, what did WWE use before OVW? Did they have anything in '96-'00 or so to get new guys from or send guys to?


Glad I'm not the only one who thought that Dan Severn could have been big.

Not only did Severn have legitimacy on his side, he had an intimidating look that could have took him to the top. I have no idea why they put him in a stupid neck injury angle but that completely killed his momentum after he started to get over just a little bit.. It's a shame really.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Jim Ross recently confirmed that the Mid-South dvd is a go ahead on Twitter, slated for a September 10th release. REALLY looking forward to that once since I've heard so many good things about the storylines throughout Mid South and the classics from the mid '80s.
> 
> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/mid-south-wrestling-dvd-wwe-payback/38050/
> 
> Synopsis for the new Payback ppv is in there too.


That means the gawd Ted Dibiase will be on it :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)
15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)
13. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
12. WWE Championship & Intercontinental Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs Ultimate Warrior(c) (Title vs Title ; Wrestlemania VI)
11. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Career Threatening Match ; Wrestlemania XXIV)
10. Undertaker vs Triple H w/ Shawn Michaels Special Referee ( Hell in a Cell ; Wrestlemania XXVIII)
9. WWE Championship - The Rock (c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XVII)
8. Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII)
7. Intercontinental Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III)
6. Intercontinental Championship - Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Ladder match ; Wrestlemania X)
5. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXV)*


*4. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Streak vs Career ; Wrestlemania XXVI)


“This has been my life for over 25 years, you think I would risk everything if I didn’t know I could beat you” Shawn Michaels​*











Probably the most anticipated match ever for me personally, I knew Shawn was going down but I wanted him to go out with the best match possible and hot damn this was awesome. The chemistry between these 2 is legendary, no one thought they could follow the year before but they did with one thing Storytelling. The build-up and video package for this match is the GOAT for me, I get chills every time I watch it. Their match the previous year was an absolute adrenaline rush but this one was vastly different, the storytelling and psychology showed how wrestling can be an art form. I believe KOK stated it, as much as this is Shawn’s last match Undertaker stole the show. This may be the greatest performance of the deadman’s career. The reason why I have this ahead of their classic prior is simple the moves are cleaner, they have stuff to build off, lots of homages to previous matches not just their match the year before but other matches of the streak and HBK/Flair, an unbelievable selling display by Undertaker, the finish, the storytelling throughout, I’ll take that over near falls any day. 

The story starts right away with the entrances no descending from heaven for Shawn, this match is all business his career is on the line. This much starts off at such a quick pace, showing that this match means everything to both guys. The main difference between this match and the year before is the injury to Undertakers leg and as I stated before he sold it magnificently. I loved how Shawn would go after the knee and every time Taker fought back he went for one of his big moves, this is divine storytelling as Taker is trying to finish the match as soon as possible because of how bad his knee is injured. The throwbacks in his match was a thing of beauty, HBK taking the moves of some of his greatest Wrestlemania rivals using the ankle lock and figure four which both help attack the knee injury of Taker. The moonsault throw the table was the stand out spot of the match, Im not sure if HBK meant it but he landed straight on the knee of Taker which was brilliant. One of the most amazing things ever happened after, Undertaker a monster, a man who strikes fear in everybody, a man that will stand up to anyone tried to get away in the crowd. This was truly amazing, this gave Undertaker a mortal image and gave life to the near fall of SCM in the ring. Im still in shock from that part of the match it’s so brilliant. The ending playing homage to HBK/Flair as Undertaker tells HBK to stay down he has nothing more to prove, but HBK slaps Undertaker in his last act of defiance as Taker tombstones him and ends the career of Mr Wrestlemania. 

Shawn sticking to his word of retiring makes this match even more special and out of all the annual classic storyline heavy HBK/Taker/HHH/Flair matches they produced this will always be the best. All I cared about is that HBK went out with a classic and it was just that. Thank you Shawn for being my favourite wrestler of all time, being the one who made me a wrestling fan I doubt I would be writing this review right now if it wasn’t for you. The handshake at the end was one of the great moments in Wrestlemania history, and the image of Shawn standing in the ring while the fans chant Thank you Shawn will be a moment I wouldn’t forget. Ladies and gentlemen this is one of the greatest matches of all time, a top 10 without question and the 4th greatest match in Wrestlemania history.​
******​*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ORTON TRIES TO MURDER CENA. THE FUCK?

Also, GREAT WORK AGAIN THERE MATE (felt Australian saying that :lol).

:cena3


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That Taker/Michaels is one of my favorites ever. It's just the atmosphere surrounding the match and the two GOATS going toe to toe for the very last time. Taker giving Michaels the stage at the end is a very nice touch. Had a tear in my eye that night. One of the very best Wrestlemania moments ever and a sure fire 5* for myself too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's NUMBER 3 on my GOAT WWF/WWE match list, superior to the XXV one by a little bit (both are still five stars however).

Once Punk said that he's going to do whatever it takes to win, I got a sense that we have a MOTY on our hands.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> ORTON TRIES TO MURDER CENA. THE FUCK?
> 
> Also, GREAT WORK AGAIN THERE MATE (felt Australian saying that :lol).
> 
> :cena3


How Australian of you :lol I swear mate is the most overused word in my vocabulary. 

If I did my list again tomorrow it could be number 1 that's how close my top 5 are.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

What I'm hoping for this Sunday;

Del Rio/Swagger to get more than 5 minutes or even 30 seconds :$ (not invested in the "story" but they should be able to pull of a decent watch)
Fandango/Jericho should be decent, Jericho can pull a watchable match out of anyone. No one correct me :side:
SHIELD win. Don't care how. Just make the fucking guys win. 
Hell No/Big E & Ziggles to get some decent time. Kane/Big E interaction plz.
Funkin' Donuts to get their dancing bollocks over quickly.

CENA/ROCK. Please E, please just make it no DQ or something and let them just brawl. We had the first tame encounter at 28, we need some more substance to this match. No screwjob either, just Cena/Rock to shake hands at the end of the night after John Boy makes him tap, just for the reaction it would bring on this forum 8*D pretty sure the site would crash.

TRIPS/BROCK. I WANT A FUCKING WAR. A _REAL_ No holds barred match. We all know Trips is winning especially after HBK's promo this Monday.

PUNK/TAKER. Just let them call the match. They know what they're doing. I'm guessing we're not getting a Taker dive over the ropes this year  i'm pretty sure that's why last year was HIAC, just to let fans know that it wouldn't be happening. HEYMAN SHENANIGANS PLEASE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just let THE SHIELD go 15-20 minutes PLZ.

I'm expecting Rock-Cena, Punk-Taker, and Brock-Game to all be polarizing matches.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Just let THE SHIELD go 15-20 minutes PLZ.
> 
> I'm expecting Rock-Cena, Punk-Taker, and Brock-Game to all be polarizing matches.


Pretty much all this. Give the shield 15-20 mins and I'm pretty convinced it will be MOTN, if Punk and Taker don't create a masterpiece. 

Not too high on HHH/Brock now with the feeling so many people will interfere, and I just don't have total faith in Cena/Rock even though I wouldn't be suprised if Cena carries Rock to a near 4 star match give the circumstance.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

After watching their recent segments, I'm legit expecting Jericho/Fandango to nearly steal the show. *** 3/4 type match, sort of in an Orton/Punk from 27 kinda way. Tag Title match has a whole lot of potential too if they give it enough time. Disappointed for the lack of Cesaro though...


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> After watching their recent segments, I'm legit expecting Jericho/Fandango to nearly steal the show. *** 3/4 type match, sort of in an Orton/Punk from 27 kinda way. Tag Title match has a whole lot of potential too if they give it enough time. Disappointed for the lack of Cesaro though...


Jericho/Fandango :mark: I'm actually excited for this. 

We want Cesaro, it's absolutely ludicrous he isn't on the card.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Found this little gem on WWE.COM:

HBK vs "Nature Boy" Buddy Landel *USWA* 8/14/95. It's only a 2 minute clip of the match, but it's extremely high quality video since it's on WWE.COM. Don't remember this match at all or HBK ever working in the USWA. Pretty awesome and VERY rare.

http://www.wwe.com/videos/shorties-smokey-mountain-wrestling-81495-shawn-michaels-vs-nature-boy-buddy-land-25013547


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He didn't even make it to the fucking PRE SHOW.

My bet is that he's featured in a segment or that they have him wrestling at AXXESS or some shit. TERRIBLE.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't know why people are shitting on this year's Wrestlemania card. If the matches reach their potential, we are in for one of the GOAT PPVs ever. 

Fandango/Jericho should be good. Jericho can wrestle a mop and make it look good, but Fandango looks like he's a decent worker and I think they will click and put together a really good undercard match. I'm expecting a ***1/2 type of match.

Ryback/Henry has had a solid build up. It's not going to be a classic or anything, but it'll be two big guys going at each other for 5-6 minutes. Ryback will get his Wrestlemania moment here.

6 Man Tag has potential to be MOTN. The Shield have yet to have a bad match in the WWE and the other 3 guys are all great workers in their own right. Too bad this match isn't a Falls Count Anywhere match or something but it should still be great. 

Hell No/Zig E will be decent. After this past Raw, I'm sold on Big E and am excited for his in-ring debut. This match will be the FUN match of the night, possibly consisting of some comedy moments. It'll be even more FUN if the divas are included. 

Miz/Barrett should be alright. Decent midcard title match that will get the crowd pumped for the actual show.

8 Person Mixed Tag I don't really care for. Hoping for a Tons of Funk win though which is pretty likely. 

Punk/Undertaker will be awesome. Taker steps it up at Wrestlemania and Punk is the Best in the World. Taker is winning, but that doesn't mean they still can't go out there and kill it. Punk saying he will do whatever it takes to win has me intrigued.

Swagger/Del Rio is my candidate for squash of the night, though I hope it's not. Hoping they get at least 10 minutes to showcase their stuff because it seems like this feud has had the most build towards it (or at least one of). 

HHH/Lesnar I have mixed feelings for. I was really disappointed by their match at Summerslam and I expect this to be kind of the same. I hope I'm wrong and for no Shawn Michaels involvement. 

Rock/Cena will be great. I enjoyed their match last year even though I felt they held back quite a bit. This time I think they'll go all out to put on a good show. It will be funny if the crowd shits all over this match which is highly possible.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cesaro not even making the pre-show has me so racked. I've posted it several times, but Big E and Fandango getting their first official match at Mania and the US champ not even getting near the program is just sick. I will say that Fandango has grown on me the last few weeks. He's shown some personality, and I think he can a go a little on the mic. 

I've been thinking about Rock/Cena, and why Rock may never be involved in a gimmick match. He's got his movie career to think about, and can't risk any cuts or bruises or big injuries. Now I know he apparently torn his hamstring at Mania 28 which proves that injuries can happen even in straight up matches, but gimmick matches probably raise the odds of injury even more. Of course some gimmick matches don't go any further than kendo sticks, a few chairs, and maybe the steel steps. As I type this I remember Rock did do a table spot in back to back matches with Punk, so who knows.

Maybe they're saving Cena/Rock's gimmick match for Extreme Rules. 

I'm most interested to see how the Shield fare. Punk's losing, Trips is winning, Rock is winning. Could not care less about the WHC picture, and would be surprised if Swagger wins the strap, but who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if Ricardo is the X factor in that match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No doubt in my mind that Jericho vs Fandango will be excellent if given the time. Jericho is at a point in his career where losses don't matter anymore and has proven earlier this year that he's still a top five talent in the company. If Curtis can carry his own weight here we should be in for one of those Rhodes-Mysterio situations where we get a good match from a young up and comer against the great veteran.

I think Jericho might get the win though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I want FAN.... DAN.... GO.. to get the win. Jericho doesn't need it. Fandango CAN'T lose his first match. No no no no. Even if he wins in cheap fashion, such as a roll up with a hand full of tights. Actually, that's probably what will happen. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FAN...DAN...GOAT :mark:.

I've had to pause that Cena-Orton IRONMAN match numerous times by now. It's not that it's bad, it's just that my attention span is shitty at the moment :lol.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I'm feeling the Jericho/Fandango situation will be like Jericho/Ziggler, Jericho will win at Mania and Fandango will get his revenge on Raw in the upcoming weeks.

The only good part of that ironman match is the Rko counter of the AA :mark:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I have never sat through an entire 60 minute ironman match barring Benoit/HHH and that's because I was heavily invested into the feud (10 years old at the time). I can't watch one match for 60 minutes. Just don't have the attention span. And a lot of the time ironman matches are slow as shit for the first half hour or so.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This one is like a reverse ironman match in that regard. Orton tries to blow Cena to smithereens in the first half, how the fuck do you top that in the second half?

That's what I never liked about this match. Orton tries to KILL Cena. Then Cena's like "oh okay, let's continue our wrestling match".


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Batista vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXIII*

HOLY SHIT this is an awesome match. Why doesn't it get talked about more? Batista is a straight up BEAST. I had forgotten just how good he was around this time. He was being built up as a huge threat to not only the streak, but the rest of the WWE too. He was steamrolling through everyone, had a great fanbase (although he gets booed in this match), and was at the peak of his Animal character. 

This is FIGHT between two big dudes who both want the same thing - the World Heavyweight Championship. Taker hadn't held a title in almost 5 years while Batista was a dominant force who was destroying anyone in his path. They laid it all for what they wanted and did not disappoint. The crowd was very pro-Taker even though Batista was the #2 (arguably #1) face of the company. I guess this is Wrestlemania and it IS The Undertaker we're talking about here... he is the phenom after all. 

Taker looked in amazing shape. He pulled off all his signature moves including his dive to the outside. He was flying all over the place and made Batista look like a million bucks with his amazing selling. This match has one of the GOAT announce table spots too, Batista running powerslams Undertaker! EPIC. 

The finishing sequence here is great. Both guys got their finishers in and the crowd popped huge when Taker kicked out of the Batista Bomb. Taker wins the match with a Tombstone to much pleasure of the live crowd. 

*Closing thoughts:* This is what a big man match should be. Two bulls going at it and laying it all on the line on the grandest stage of them all. Batista was amazing. Taker was amazing. This match is amazing. It's a classic. This is Batista's best non-gimmick match ever and one of Taker's all-time best as well. An all out brawl.

*Rating:* ****1/2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Alim said:


> *Batista vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXIII*
> 
> HOLY SHIT this is an awesome match. Why doesn't it get talked about more?
> 
> *Rating:* ****1/2


Agreed with the rating but i gotta say, this match get's talked about a fuckload. It definitely gets the recognition it deserves, Cyber Sunday match is also awesome.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

It may not get talked about much outside of this forum, but it definitely receives high praise around here, Cyber Sunday is a real forgotten gem.

I have their Wrestlemania match just a tad higher but both are ***** 1/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wrest...ged-timing-matches-music-performance-etc.html

Alleged Timing Of Mania Matches and all the other shit:



> Tons Of Funk & FunkaDactyls vs Rhode Scholars & Bellas - 8 minutes
> Jericho vs Fandango - 10 minutes
> Hunter vs Brock - 20 to 30 minutes
> Hell No vs Langston/Ziggler - 12 to 15 minutes
> ...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rock/Cena will be more i think, especially if that number is counting entrances.

Punk/Taker  needs to be around half hour, i knew it wouldn't be.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Punk/Taker  needs to be around half hour, i knew it wouldn't be.


Same here mate, i did have a niggling feeling it would get 15-20mins :no: Good point about entrances, if those numbers do include them, then you shave off 10mins for Taker's entrance lol.

30mins again for Rock/Cena :no:


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

That timing sheet seems very guessed. Those two tag matches getting 20 minutes together? Ha. Henry/Ryback getting 12 minutes? Ha. HHH/Brock getting 20-30 minutes? Well, they had to try make sure they got one right. del Rio/Swagger is getting 10-12 minutes most. 10 seconds at the least.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

zep81 said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wrest...ged-timing-matches-music-performance-etc.html
> 
> Alleged Timing Of Mania Matches and all the other shit:


All those times add up to 3 hours and 7 minutes, so Im just guessing it doesnt include entrances mate. Looks like Rockys going near 30 minutes again fpalm


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Punk v Taker going 20 is probably good for Big Mark's health. That's a good amount of time, anyway. Taker's match with Batista is one of the top three matches Taker's had at Mania and it went fifteen on the dot. Fuckballs @ Rock v Cena potentially getting 30 again. Goddamn Rock barely had matches that long at his peak. In fact, how many matches in the Rock's entire career have gone thirty minutes? The iron man with Trip, the Cena match last year, and he was in the entire WWF v Alliance tag from 2001. So....three? I thought he looked exhausted during the HHH iron man (which was actually a good thing - it added to the whole 'going an hour' tone), and I remember he and Austin looking like sweaty sauna geezers by the end of the 2001 tag. He was totally roid-gassed or something last year, and shit, even in the (approx) 22 minute Punk matches this year he's looked wiped after five minutes. He gives a good effort and actually still tries in there, but damn, I can't imagine the match being very good.

HHH v Lesnar going 30 could really bomb.

I had to Google "Sean Combs". Then it turns out Google is down so I turned to Bing. I had to fucking Bing "Sean Combs".


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I will be disappointed and surprised if Rock/Cena does go a similar time it did last year. Everyone and their Grandma can tell that Rock can't go that long. It would have a better chance of being a good match if it was a lot shorter. Just because it's the 'Mania main event doesn't automatically mean it has to be around 30 mins.

Happy with the proposed length of Punk/Taker, since Taker's getting on a bit and Punk potentially nursing a small injury.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

Decided to relive my early days as a wrestling fan and watch through Smackdown '99.

It isn't really something you watch for great matches and while I've put together a list of noticeable matches it was the angle and booking I found more fascinating.

HHH really was the man at this point. Despite Smackdown being The Rock's show, HHH was the guy who featured in all the major segments, shows were built around him and whoever the face of the month was (usually Vince McMahon for whatever reason) and a lot of resources were put behind him. It worked to an extent, but he really caught fire when Stephanie joined the fray. I've always been a bit mixed on her, but here she was actually pretty entertaining making the transition from the McMahon sweet-heart to the spoilt princess of the WWE.

Also had plenty of fun watching through old commercials for movies (End of Days, Fight Club etc.), music (Rage Against The Machine) and video games (Final Fantasy VIII, Resident Evil 2 etc.) as well as watching the rise of characters like the Hardyz, Angle & Too Cool as well as the fall of Venis, Test & Snow.

Anyways without further ado my list...

*WWF Smackdown 1999 Matches*
X-Pac/Kane vs. New Age Outlaws – 29/4/99 – 3/10
The Rock vs. Triple H – 26/8/99 – 3/10
Rock n Sock vs. Shane McMahon/Triple H – 2/9/99 – 2/10
Unholy Alliance vs. Rock n Sock Connection – 9/9/99 – 3/10
Shane McMahon vs. Joey Abs – 16/9/99 – 3/10
Vince McMahon vs. Triple H – 16/9/99 – 3/10
New Age Outlaws vs. Rock n Sock Connection 23/9/99 – 3/10
Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boys – 30/9/99 – 3/10
Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boys – 7/10/99 – 4/10
The Rock vs. Val Venis – 7/10/99 – 4/10
Rock n Sock Connection vs. New Age Outlaws – 14/10/99 – 3/10
Steve Austin vs. Val Venis – 21/10/99 – 4/10
Edge & Christian vs. Too Cool – 28/10/99 – 3/10
Hardy Boys vs. Too Cool – 4/11/99 – 3/10
HHH/X-Pac/New Age Outlaws vs. The Rock/Kane/Test/Shane McMahon – 11/11/99 – 3/10
Edge & Christian vs. Too Cool – 18/11/99 – 3/10
The Hardy Boys vs. New Age Outlaws - 25/11/99 – 4/10
HHH/X Pac vs. Shane McMahon/Test – 25/11/99 – 3/10 – Wicked post match segment
Big Show/Hardy Boys vs. X-Pac/New Age Outlaws – 2/12/99 – 4/10
Mankind vs. Al Snow – 9/12/99 – 3/10
Mankind vs. Al Snow – 16/12/99 – 3/10
Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Hardy – 16/12/99 – 4/10
Al Snow vs. The Rock – 23/12/99 – 3/10
Jeff Hardy/Christian vs. Kaientai – 23/12/99 – 3/10
Al Snow vs. Jeff Hardy – 30/12/99 – 4/10

Two matches really stand out for me...

New Brood vs. Edge & Christian - 7/10/99 
This was a Terri Invitational Tornado Tag match and both teams went full throttle in an absolutely fun tag match. Edge & Christian started off the stronger team and it was fun watching these two use one another as weapons to take out their opposition. However, the Hardys assume control after Matt hits Christian with a beautiful ricochet DDT on the outside. Hardys control the match for a couple of minutes before Christian finally makes his way back in the ring and this is where they go into the finish. Both sides trade near falls until Edge and Christian look to put Matt away with the move that won them the match the week before. They hit it, but Jeff hits the Swanton Bomb on Christian before quickly throwing Edge on the outside to pick up the victory. Neat little gem of the match really showcased 4 of the best workers on the roster at that time.

Al Snow vs. Jeff Hardy - 30/12/99
Two of the more hungry workers going at it. Al Snow is the wannabe lackey of the McMahon/Helmsly faction looking to win them over while Jeff is the young up and coming high flying babyface that's coming for the New Age Outlaws. It's pretty back and forth early with Jeff catching Snow out with his typical unorthodox high flying offence. Snow eventually reads it right and begins to ground Hardy by working the leg and it pays dividends as Jeff is unable to hold his balance on the barricade. Jeff eventually fights through it and despite Snow's best efforts to foil Hardy with the chair, it backfires as Matt comes to his brother's aid allowing Jeff to pick up the victory.

That little leg spot really won me over. I'm not even a big Hardy fan (in fact, I used to really hate him) but he was easily the best worker on the brand at that time. HHH was too busy working that 99 brawl around the arena style to stand out.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

What do people think of the Randy Orton and Undertaker series? the Wrestlemania one is above average from the last time I saw it, don't remember much from the Casket or HIAC ones. And don't even recall if there were any more.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Summerslam 2005 is their best match imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Summerslam 2005 for me as well, though I really enjoyed their HIAC match too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

HIAC tops the list but that's obvious being HIAC and all.

Summer Slam and Wrestlemania are on par with each other for me. Love both matches.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Punk v Taker going 20 is probably good for Big Mark's health. That's a good amount of time, anyway. Taker's match with Batista is one of the top three matches Taker's had at Mania and it went fifteen on the dot. Fuckballs @ Rock v Cena potentially getting 30 again. Goddamn Rock barely had matches that long at his peak. In fact, how many matches in the Rock's entire career have gone thirty minutes? The iron man with Trip, the Cena match last year, and he was in the entire WWF v Alliance tag from 2001. So....three? I thought he looked exhausted during the HHH iron man (which was actually a good thing - it added to the whole 'going an hour' tone), and I remember he and Austin looking like sweaty sauna geezers by the end of the 2001 tag. He was totally roid-gassed or something last year, and shit, even in the (approx) 22 minute Punk matches this year he's looked wiped after five minutes. He gives a good effort and actually still tries in there, but damn, I can't imagine the match being very good.
> 
> HHH v Lesnar going 30 could really bomb.
> 
> I had to Google "Sean Combs". Then it turns out Google is down so I turned to Bing. I had to fucking Bing "Sean Combs".



Didn't the Mania 17 mainevent went close to 30 minutes? But yeah last 10 minutes was just Austin beating the Rock down to get the pin, so Rock didn't need to do very much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Guy said:


> What do people think of the Randy Orton and Undertaker series? the Wrestlemania one is above average from the last time I saw it, don't remember much from the Casket or HIAC ones. And don't even recall if there were any more.


1.HIAC
2.SS
3.WM

Cant remember the casket match .

Great series (Y)


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Four really good PPV matches, there SmackDown was one was decent aswell. Im not a huge fan of the HIAC match, but I can see why it is rated so highly.

1) Wrestlemania - ****1/4
2) Summerslam - ***3/4
3) Armageddon (HIAC) - ***3/4
4) No Mercy (Casket Match) - ***1/2
5) SmackDown - ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah i need a re-watch of the HIAC, i did recently watch the Mania and SS matches.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Yeah i need a re-watch of the HIAC, i did recently watch the Mania and SS matches.


I also really need to rewatch HIAC, you may as well say I need to rewatch the SS match as well. From recent memory I would have them in this order

WM
HIAC
SS


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

Hey guys Im looking to do something new on the lead up to WM this year. Each year I have a theme like create a PPV of just title matches from Wrestlemania etc...

This year I am looking for 8-10 matches that are WrestleManias hidden gems. So matches that don't get enough credit for being good even though they are not amazing. I hope that makes sense.

So far I am thinking about The Triple Threat Hardcore Championship Match from WMX7 and the 6 Man Tag from WrestleMania 12


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Summerslam 2005:*

HBK vs Hogan ***3/4 - HBK bumps this rating up big time lol
Jordan vs Benoit N/A
Eugene vs Angle **1/2 - lol at Angle + :yum: @ Hemme, squash match but fun
Eddie vs Rey Mysterio ****1/4 - still really liked this.
Cena vs Jericho ***3/4
Batista vs JBL **
Matt Hardy vs Edge *** - VERY stiff, wish it would have gone on longer
Orton vs Undertaker ****


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ThunderAngel said:


> Hey guys Im looking to do something new on the lead up to WM this year. Each year I have a theme like create a PPV of just title matches from Wrestlemania etc...
> 
> This year I am looking for 8-10 matches that are WrestleManias hidden gems. So matches that don't get enough credit for being good even though they are not amazing. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> So far I am thinking about The Triple Threat Hardcore Championship Match from WMX7 and the 6 Man Tag from WrestleMania 12


Orton/Punk WM27
Rhodes/Rey WM27
Punk/Rey WM26
Orton/Rhodes/Ted WM26
Trips/Orton/Cena WM24
JBL/Finlay WM24
Trish/Micky WM22
Eddie/Rey WM 21
Cena/Show WM20
Christian/Jericho WM20

All the ones from recent Manias I can think of.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I was hoping Rock/Cena wouldn't go over 20. So much for it being potentially better than the first encounter.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK/Hunter beating the shit out of each other for 30 minutes intrigues me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> BROCK/Hunter beating the shit out of each other for 30 minutes intrigues me.


BAH GAWD KING THERE'S BLOOD EVERYWHERE! THESE MEN HAVE FAMILIES!

Oh, and JR MUST call Punk/Taker. They've managed to get him out there the last two years, though at 27 they were helped by Cole not returning to the table after his match with King. Last year Cole was being such a heel that he gave JR some serious looks when he made his entrance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HE HAD TO BING SEAN COMBS :lol.

I think most people are going to be extremely underwhelmed by Punk/Taker because I don't think it's going to be BRUTAL!* or all about FINISHERZ!*. It's going to be very Punk/Jericho esque in the fact that some people will just GET the math and some won't. 

HBK + HHH = Melodrama, so I'm not really sure how that turns out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> HE HAD TO BING SEAN COMBS :lol.
> 
> I think most people are going to be extremely underwhelmed by Punk/Taker because I don't think it's going to be BRUTAL!* or all about FINISHERZ!*. It's going to be very Punk/Jericho esque in the fact that some people will just GET the math and some won't.


That is pretty much how i read it too tbh, ive said before the match wont be the 'finisher-fest' esque that the last few streak matches were, hell i wouldnt be surprised to see the finishers down to a bare minimum, as for HHH/Brock, i just dunno, i just hope they can make it as brutal as they can (fuck the PG restrictions), and move it away from the SS match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 24 review in my blog. Late I know, but I've been pretty fucking ill since yesterday .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM 24 - one of the best Manias ever. But Cal, Taker's dive should always be referred to as FATALITY 8*D

After watching every WHC match in '07, ratingz for it (don't have time to write thoughts now):

Edge/Batista Cage: **
Edge/Batista Vengeance: ***1/2
20-Man Battle Royal: *1/4
Khali/Batista/Kane: ***1/2 (Like, shockingly awesome)
Khali/Batista SSlam: DUD
Khali/Batista/Rey: ***1/4
Batista/Khali NM: ***1/4
Batista/Taker CS: ****
Batista/Taker HIAC: ****1/4
Batista/Edge SD: ***
Batista/Taker/Edge: ****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Guy said:


> What do people think of the Randy Orton and Undertaker series? the Wrestlemania one is above average from the last time I saw it, don't remember much from the Casket or HIAC ones. And don't even recall if there were any more.


Wrestlemania 21 - ★★★★¼
SummerSlam - ★★★★¼
Smackdown 16/9/05 - ★★★★
No Mercy - ★★★★
Armageddon - ★★★★½



KingOfKings said:


> I think most people are going to be extremely underwhelmed by Punk/Taker because I don't think it's going to be BRUTAL!* or all about FINISHERZ!*. It's going to be very Punk/Jericho esque in the fact that some people will just GET the math and some won't.


I'll just sleep my way through it, convincing myself on the inside that TAKER WINS! I doubt there'll be any nearfalls like that, though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It probably won't happen but I'm starting to think Taker is going to lose via DQ. It's an awful finish but it's just that Taker's promo on RAW hinted at a loss when he said "I may lose but you won't be around to talk about it" (or something along those lines). Taker may disqualify himself by beating Punk so badly and that eventually leads to Punk taking a break.

It's probably not happening but I am the type to worry a lot lol :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So how does that work?

When they announce Punk/Taker is on next, are you going to turn off the lights and set an alarm for 30 minutes later :lol?

WWE Championship - Randy Orton(c) vs John Cena (Ironman Match ; Bragging Rights 2009) : *** 1/4*

Couldn't really get into this one, felt that it peaked way too early and that they really HHH-HBK'd the shit out of it with the melodramatic shit. I thought there was alot of GOOD in this match and that overall it exceeded my expectations (I think everybody should see it once), and while the first half of the match is really good, the match climaxes for me when Orton tries to murder Cena with the pyro, as there's no going back to a normal wrestling match after that happens. You take away a half an hour from this match and you book it the same was and it's an easy three and a half for me. It's really good at some points and there's alot of OMG-ACTION*! but it falls flat in alot of categories. Better than the shit Summerslam and Cell matches from that year and worth watching, but I just couldn't get completely immersed in it.

WWE Championship - Sheamus(c) vs Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Ted Dibiase vs Kofi Kingston vs John Cena (Elimination Chamber ; Elimination Chamber 2010) : ** 1/2*

This was decent at best. Why this match is never talked about as one of the worst chamber matches really puzzles me as there aren't a ton of redeeming qualities about this one. KOFI JUMPS AROUND AND SHIT, GAME comes in and brawls with Sheamus (easily the best portion of the match by far), Randy Orton comes in and slows everything down to a fucking snail's pace and everything goes downhill from there. There's literally no eliminations until the last 10 minutes or so when all hell breaks loose, and the ending with THE GOATS is short, abrupt, and kind of pissed me off. Trips and Cena are the best workers in this match by far I found, as Orton/Dibiase/Kofi were sucking dick and Sheamus was only good when matches up with GAME in a nice foreshadowing to the Mania match.

One of the most underwhelming matches I have ever seen in my life.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gonna take a miracle to keep me away for Cena/Rock on Sunday night. At least I know it'll go on last so if I fall asleep I won't miss anything else (aka something worth seeing ).

Taker/Punk is only gonna disappoint people if they go into the match expecting something like the last 4 Taker WM matches. Or if it sucks lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hah, nah. I wouldn't disrespect Taker like that. But what I might do is bring my iPad and play some games instead of concentrating on the match. Or maybe actually turn it off and get 30 minutes sleep as I have school early the next day and need every one of those minutes? 

The Ironman match is awesome, I think they did a good job with the pacing although the "ORTON TRIES TO KILL CENA" stuff should've been saved for the second half to make the drama more... dramatic, I guess. And that chamber match wasn't that bad but definitely one of the weaker ones. The Smackdown one from that year was also pretty poor. And I liked their HIAC match, specially for Orton flipping the crowd when he failed to get the steel steps thrown above the top rope into the ring.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

After Punk said on Raw that he's willing to do anything it takes to win, and Taker's promo (which someone already referenced) where he said he might not win, I hope they don't something stupid/screwy. I know they have to find a way to entertain the fans and that it's extremely difficult with Taker matches these days after the last 4 epic matches he had at WM (first 2 with HBK, last 2 with HHH), but I genuinely hope they don't screw around with Taker's streak here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2005) **** Loved Angle powerbombing HBK into the corner, need to re-watch their WM match soon too to compare. Didnt like the finish though.

About to watch Batista/HHH HIAC :mark: but that match should still easily be ****3/4 IMHO.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Alim said:


> I have never sat through an entire 60 minute ironman match barring Benoit/HHH and that's because I was heavily invested into the feud (10 years old at the time). I can't watch one match for 60 minutes. Just don't have the attention span. And a lot of the time ironman matches are slow as shit for the first half hour or so.


Somehow my attention gets better the later at night it is, so I watched Bret/Shawn at something like half midnight and Cena/Orton at half one. The latter match is a mindfuck to watch so late at night, though.

Wrestlemania 29 predictions:
Rock/Cena: ***
Punk/Taker: ****1/2
Brock/HHH: ****1/4
Del Rio/Swagger: ***1/2
Jericho/Fandango: ***3/4
Ryback/Henry: ***1/2
Hell No/Zig Langston: ***1/4 (won't get time)
Miz/Wade: **1/2
6 man tag: ***1/4

I'm not keen on either Angle/HBK match at all, tbh.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

8 years ago today was WM 21. Watched the HBK/Angle match earlier today, and I still love it. ****1/4 for me. The Vengeance match is awesome, too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still can't get over how bad that chamber match was. I gave it like three stars on the last watch before that but FUCK did it go down.

Watching Cena-Del Rio @ Vengeance 2011 now. THE DEBUT OF THE RISE ABOVE HATE SHIRT :mark: :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Man, WM 25 is looking way better on this watch that ever before. Only 1 point behind WM 24 on the CAL SCALE and I've just finished watching Undertaker/HBK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It'll probably pass it then. That WHC triple threat with JOHN BOY in it is pretty damn good if I do say so myself.

Wait until you reach XXVI. Going to throw out my Mania rankings according to the CAL SCALE on Saturday. Something I've been meaning to do for fucking AGES now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Came across this hilarious GIF:










Gonna try and figure out the episode lol, looks like '98.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm so worried for the midcard, especially the current champions, but I guess things can always change fast. 

I also wish Dolph would cash in this briefcase already, and that he's gone on his own. Big E is just holding him back, and AJ is well, whatever.

Edit: Great GIF. That was from when Austin dropped the belt when both Kane and Taker pinned him and Austin reffed their match at Judgment Day 98, when Austin got fired.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure its from the Raw the night after the triple threat match with Undertaker/Kane/Austin where they both pin Austin for the belt but nobody knows for sure who the champ is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Pretty sure its from the Raw the night after the triple threat match with Undertaker/Kane/Austin where they both pin Austin for the belt but nobody knows for sure who the champ is.


Ah yeah i think you are right mate, remember the red carpet now lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Anyone, thoughts on Vengeance 2011? Watched Cena/ADR, that was batshit crazy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Anyone, thoughts on Vengeance 2011? Watched Cena/ADR, that was batshit crazy.


All I remember is the non-stop bitching in here about how Punk got pinned instead of HHH during that tag match. Also a little bit of Orton/Cody and obviously Del Rio actually winning the feud with Cena!!!

The main event was a good match IIRC. Need to refresh my memories on most of 2011 since I've only seen most of it when it aired and never after.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

That ADR/Cena match was fun, and Cena not winning made it better. ***1/4 from me


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Flair/Taker from Mania 18. 

The story coming in was Taker attacking Rick's son David, and pressuring Ric into accepting this match. These guys took no time in getting started and Taker is terrific in the heel role. He's clearly taking pleasure in whipping Ric's ass. Flair gets his crimson mask about 6 minutes into this one, and sells like a master. Flair gets in a little offense with the chops and has the crowd fully behind him, but Taker quickly regains the upper hand. High marks for that big time superplex. Taker goes for old school, but talks a bit too much trash and Flair yanks him down. After kicking out of the sidewalk slam from Taker, Flair starts to take control and hangs Taker up on the top rope and slaps a few more chops on and knocks Taker over to the outside, before coming with the lead pipe and busting Taker open on his forehead. Huge pop for Flair's low blow, countering the chokeslam, which leads into the Figure Four, getting a huge reaction from the crowd. Taker counters by getting Flair up for the Chokeslam, and does a good job selling the knee, taking time to crawl to the cover. AFter getting two nearfalls, Taker takes out the ref, leading to Flair setting up Taker for ARN ANDERSON AND DAT SPINEBUSTER, which I marked for, along with Jim Ross. Taker powers out of that, and takes out Arn. Big time chair shots to Taker from Flair, but Taker follows with a big boot. Taker attempts the Last Ride, but weird moment here, as it looks like Flair sandbags a bit, but JR calls it as a backbreaker. Taker says fuck it and hits the Tombstone for the win. 

Love this match. May have gone crazy with the review, but I wrote as I watched. **** from me. Jumping to Taker/Boss Man HIAC. Haven't seen this in forever, but checking it out anyways. HBK/Taker at 26 to follow.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

ATF said:


> Anyone, thoughts on Vengeance 2011? Watched Cena/ADR, that was batshit crazy.


* Tag Team Champions Air-Boom vs. Ziggler & Swagger. ★★★1/2
* Divas Champion Beth vs. Eve. ★★
* Sheamus vs. Christian. ★★★
* Punk & Triple H vs. Awesome Truth. ★★1/4
* Rhodes vs. Orton. ★★★1/4
* World Champion Henry vs. Show. ★★
* WWE Champion Del Rio vs. Cena. ★★★1/4


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/HHH vs Awesome Truth was horrible, no more then * from.me


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

ATF said:


> Anyone, thoughts on Vengeance 2011? Watched Cena/ADR, that was batshit crazy.


ADR/Cena is honestly one of my favorite matches of 2011. I just loved how well they made the best out of working with a broken ring and it allowed for some pretty cool spots like Cena tossing Del Rio from the ring to the barricade. It was indeed batshit crazy and a hell of lot of fun to watch.

Show/Henry is pretty dope too. It's probably my favorite Mark Henry match ever. I remember the tag title match being good too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The more I think about it, the less I care that HHH got that win over Punk, although they really should have had a rematch inside of the cell. The visual of the GOAT standing above Punk after that all out war and then doing the crotch chop was a fucking wonderful one, as much as I hate to admit it. Vengeance 2011 is a personal favorite of mine with consistency from top to bottom, fantastic overall show with every match being worth watching IIRC especially the two championship main events.

PUNK AND HHH ON THE SAME TEAM :mark:.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Anyone, thoughts on Vengeance 2011? Watched Cena/ADR, that was batshit crazy.


Vengeance 2011 was actually a pretty good PPV despite it having a horrible PPV build-up and it ending up drawing the lowest buyrate in WWE history since December to Dismember. It's a shame too, because it turned out to be a really good PPV.

As for Cena/ADR, I thought it was great. My only probelm with the match is that it didn't have that much heat on it since the build-up to the PPV was a bit short.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, HHH/Punk wasn't that bad looking back at it now. It made sense for HHH to win because no one would take him seriously if he just challenged Taker at WM despite losing his last three matches (assuming he also got pinned in the tag match). Punk later got a 434 day reign so people can't say it ruined his momentum because it didn't.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I really, really liked the opener to Vengeance 2011. Best WWE tag match of the last few years unless I'm forgetting something. Henry v Show is obviously awesome. Cena v Del Rio I didn't LOVE, but it was unique for the ring being destroyed and I remember Del Rio looking like a bump-freak in it.

Anyonr remember when after Vengeance 2011 first aired and there were joke Dave Meltzer ratings on it? IIRC the opener was like ****3/4, Cena v Del Rio was ****1/2, and Beth Phoenix v Eve was ***3/4. Hell I think every single match on the show was ***3/4 and above. 

*THREE MINUTES LATER* - Yep, did a little lookin' around in one of the old threads; http://www.wrestlingforum.com/10494631-post9399.html


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk fans like to bitch about everything so I learned to ignore it.

edit :lmao

What was the tag title opener?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Punk fans like to bitch about everything so I learned to ignore it.


 Couldn't agree more.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Punk fans like to bitch about everything so I learned to ignore it.
> 
> edit :lmao
> 
> What was the tag title opener?


Ziggler/Swagger vs Air-Boom. That match owns.

My favorite part of the match:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Taker/Boss Man at Mania 15 inside Hell in a Cell

Thought this match would border on DUDsville, but it didn't bother me so much. They used the cell a bit, Boss Man went to work on Taker with the night stick, busted him open. Taker's Ministry theme is badass, and the cut Edge and Christian coming down and hanging Boss Man from the Cell, I guess for PG reasons. Paul Bearer being that sinister manager brought back memories.

NOW time for Taker/HBK at Mania 26.

Oh, and I still can't believe they had Cena/Del Rio attempt a Last Man Standing match with a broken ring. Haven't seen the match in a while though, probably since it aired.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Taker/HBK Mania 26
We all know the story here: Undertaker’s undefeated streak vs Shawn Michael’s storied career. They started this build at the Slammy’s when Shawn called Taker out, saying, “I can beat you.” Taker of course rejected this request several times, until Michaels cost Undertaker the World Title inside the Elimination Chamber, leading to the two meeting on Raw the next night, with Taker telling Shawn his career is on the line, and Shawn saying, “If I can’t beat you, I have no career.” 


Spoiler: Full Match Review



We get to the match, and Shawn plays mind games early, imitating Taker’s throat-slitting motion, and dodging Taker’s initial attack. Taker hits Snake Eyes, the big boot, and Old School, and attempts to follow those up with a Chokeslam, only Michaels counters out. At this point, HBK begins to attack Taker’s knee. Shawn then counters theTombstone and attacks the shoulder and more of the knee. Shawn shows the superkick and Taker quickly grabs his knee. Shawn continues his attack on the knee, while Taker regains the advantage. Undertaker, after throwing Shawn out of the ring, attempts the Suicide Dive, but comes up gimp and Shawn hits the spear takedown. Taker, following his patent leg drop on the apron, sells the injured knee again, by taking time re-enter the ring, this time locking in the Figure Four, after an earlier failed attempt. Taker counters out of the FF by rolling over, but the damage is clearly done. The two trade shots for a bit, until Shawn hits his flying clothesline and kips up, only to walk right into a Chokeslam, leading to our first big nearfall. Undertaker then attempts the Tombstone, only for Shawn to counter in the Ankle Lock, eventually tying up the legs so Taker can’t crawl to the ropes. Taker is able to kick Shawn out of the hold, but more damage is done on Taker ankle and knee. Shawn clotheslines Taker out of the ring, then goes for his springboard splash, but is caught and Taker hits the Tombstone on the outside. Taker, after a medic comes in to check on Shawn, rolls HBK back into the ring, leading to big nearfall #2. Taker then attempts the Last Ride, only for Shawn to counter with a face plant-like maneuver. Michaels then goes for the elbow drop, which is countered by Undertaker, but with his injured leg. Shawn comes back, but walks right into Hell’s Gate, which is countered into a rollup by Michaels. Then get each other up, and Shawn hits SWEET CHIN MUSIC OUTTA NOWHERE, and Undertaker kicks out. Shawn tunes up the band for another superkick, but is blocked by Taker, who this time hits the Last Ride. But, ANOTHER nearfall. Taker, out of frustration, takes Shawn to the outside, and starts taking apart the announce table. He goes for another Last Ride, and hits a second Sweet Chin Music, with Taker’s body “strewn on the announce table.” Shawn goes for the moonsault, but really only falls on Taker’s leg. Taker, though does a great job continuing to sell the bad leg. Michaels gets Taker back into the ring, and Taker walks into ANOTHER Sweet Chin Music, only for Undertaker to kick out again. Both guys are visibly spent, and HBK gets to his feet first, and sets up for a third superkick, but Taker hits the Chokeslam. Undertaker then hits a second Tombstone, which Michaels kicks out of. Taker, showing doubt and disbelief, slowly gets to his feet, and down come0 the straps. Undertaker begins to do his throat-slitting motion, but shows mercy, imploring Shawn to “stay down”. Shawn, wanting to go out defiant, does the throat slit, slaps Taker, sending the Dead Man into a rage and takes a third Tombstone for the 1-2-3, ending one of the greatest careers ever. 

Fucking ***** all the way. Terrific match, with a great moment between the two following the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vengeance 2011 is quite the solid show thanks to the Opener, World & WWE Championship matches. I'm a huge advocate of the wild main event. Simply b/c of reasons stated already. _(it's wild nature, Del Rio bumping like a mad man, the overall different, hectic approach to it.)_ Truly a fun match for me. I didn't hate the Punker/Game vs Awesome Truth match. Thought it was average and enjoyed it for what it was. Trumps the shitstorm the next month know as the main event to Survivor Series.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Anyone got a line-up for future Windham/Flair matches (future from Jan 87). Watched a 6 man tag between some jobbers & the Horsemen turn into Flair vs Windham lumberjack match, which is just fan-fucking-tastic. ****1/2. Would of probably been higher, if I wasn't phased out thinking it was a post match brawl.

Edit: Read up, match date was 1/13/87.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum TA (for the US Heavyweight Championship) - Starcade 1985 - "I Quit" Steel Cage Match *










The stipulation of this match is rather interesting, An "I Quit" match in combination with a cage, talk about brutality. The match starts off with Magnum and Tully rolling around on the mat, clawing at each other until Tully supposedly scratches Magnum's eyes. He gains the advantage and decides to unleash an array of punches onto Magnum but unfortunately for him, This just angers Magnum and allows him to fire back, they get into punch for punch game. Magnum wins it and then tries to grind Tully's face against the steel cage but he blocks it, kicks Magnum in the gut and drops an elbow onto his shoulder. Tully throws him into the cage with much power and applies a sleeper hold. Magnum gets out of it but Tully hits a stiff kick right to the hip, he goes for an irish whip, Magnum reverses and gorilla presses Tully before dropping him onto the ropes for a hotshot type maneuver. Some very STIFF punches are thrown by both Magnum and Tully before Tully trips him into the cage again. He starts to bleed. Tully chokes (i think) Magnum, both of them get back of there feet and Magnum gains the advantage back by sending Tully headfirst into the cage, just barely missing the referee. Magnum applies an armlock onto Tully and sends him again into the cage. Tully starts to bleed, Magnum grabs the microphone and sets it right up against his face. He doesn't quit though, he drives his head into Magnum's groin. They start to slug it out on the ground, quite awhile after Tully gets the microphone and tells Magnum to quit but he yells out NO. Tully smashes the microphone onto Magnum's head and unloads a barrage of punches. He drives Magnum into the cage by performing a flapjack, he then goes to the top rope and performs an elbow drop right up against Magnum's face. Magnum still doesn't quit and is finally making a comeback with the whole crowd behind him. He tries to make Tully quit but according to that huge yell of NO, he doesn't want to. 

They again start a bloody slugfest on the mat consisting of punches, kicks and submission holds. Magnum shoves Tully into the corner turnbuckle and starts hammering him with punches on the second rope but Tully lifts Magnum and performs an atomic drop. Both men are now down, bloody and fatigued, Tully decides to grab the mic and use it as a fist once again but Magnum doesn't quit. Going into the final stretch of the match, Tully has done everything to make Magnum utter the words "I Quit" but obviously nothing has prevailed. Somebody throws a chair into the ring, i assume it's his lady manager outside, Tully smashes the chair into pieces and grabs a sharp fragment of the leftovers. He kicks down the referee and tries to drive the steak like piece into Magnum's head but after a few kicks he lets go of it. Magnum quickly grabs it and pushes it up against Tully's face, After a bloody 15 minute brawl, Tully finally quits.

What a bloody brawl, the blood and brutally was off the page in this match, not to mention the stiffness of the punches and kicks thrown. It seemed so legit, the yelling of the combatants in the ring also added to the legitness of the match. It wasn't like today's "I Quit" matches with opponents saying "no" in light, soothing voices, Where's the intensity? People should take notes of this match, It definitely represents intensity in the highest way possible. This match also probably set the standard of cage matches in the future and reminded me very much of Trips and Flair at Taboo Tuesday in 2005. To sum it all up, This is a classic match with hate infestion by both competitors at every turn, hardcore hits, stiff punches and tons of blood. It's all finishes off greatly with the bad guy uttering the words "I QUIT!!!".

*****1/2* is my rating, perhaps i'm being a little harsh, after a few more watches, i can definitely see myself bumping this up to ****3/4 or maybe even *****.​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Championship Match - Alberto Del Rio(c) vs John Cena (Last Man Standing ; Vengeance 2011) : **** 3/4*

UTTER FUCKING CHAOS. That's the only way to describe a match where there's essentially barely a ring used, the environment is complete anarchy, the two men in the match try to KILL EACH OTHER numerous times as well. The absurdity of this match not really even being a MATCH may turn alot of people off from it, but I for one enjoyed this alot more on this go around as I felt they did what they had to do ; go all out so that the action matched the setting that they were in ; that of complete mayhem. Del Rio is flying around like insane here as two of these guys go out and have one hell of a fight complete with some of the more creative SPOTZ you've ever seen, such as Cena Irish whipping Del Rio into the ropes only for there to be no ropes so Alberto goes flying into the barricade instead (yeah, THOSE kind of creative spots), as well as Del Rio falling from a pretty high distance through a table on a concrete floor which looked ridiculously stiff and painful because you know... IT'S FUCKING CONCRETE.

That's not to say that Cena doesn't take his fair share of bumps too ; he goes through the Vengeance set and he gets buried by Del Rio (LOL CENA IZ BERRIED) under a bunch of metal supports that look like it hurts a fair bit as well, but he gets Del Rio back by trying to KILL him, how exacty? Well by pushing a 500 pound.. WHATEVER THE HELL IT IS on top of him, only for Del Rio to move out of the way. Who the fuck is supposed to be the the face in this anyways :lol? .... They make their way back to the ring and shenanigans ensue with Jiz and R-Truth (fuck those guys) which cost Cena his shot at REDEMPTION!* and getting his title back once again. 

I may have made this match seem like a good (bad) ol' ECW style fuck fest, but that's not entirely true as I felt this was chaos with a point to it unlike ECW's nonsense. The environment was chaotic and unpredictable like the match, and the creativity that these two guys put out there was fantastic, not enough for me to throw four snowflakes at it but it's truly a match you need to see, because this one is one of the more unique matches you'll see out of the E in the last few years.

I FOUND THIS MATCH ON GOOGLE.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*WWF Championship Match - Bret Hart (c) vs. The Undertaker WWF One Night Only 9/20/1997: *****

Great match. Bret Hart takes off the turnbuckle pad in the beginning and that cost him later on with Taker beating him down afterwards. I loved the big man vs. smaller man dynamic between the two with Bret Hart kicking Taker's legs in order to knock him down. Whenever Taker tries to muster up some kind of offense, Bret just kicks him once on the leg and Taker goes down and Bret keeps on working on the leg. The match picks up towards the end with some fun back in forth action with Bret trying to Tombstone Taker and Taker trying to do the same to Bret. Bret holds on to the ropes to avoid getting Tombstone and gets his head stuck like a vice afterwards. The match ends with a DQ on Taker since he kept punching Bret as he was stuck. Taker goes HAM at the end, chokeslamming the referee and delivering a sick chokeslam to who I believe was Gerald Brisco (almost broke his damn neck!). Overall, great match despite the DQ ending.

Fun fact: I watched this on my Bret Hart: The Best there Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be DVD which cost $7 (Great deal! lol)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I bought that DVD in perfect condition for ONE dollar. Got it signed by Bret.

Wonder what the worth is now (on a random note, HIAC 09 Cena vs Orton it IS!)?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Recommendations for a FUN series to watch?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Recommendations for a FUN series to watch?


The Trent Baretta/Curt Hawkins and Trent Baretta/Tyson Kidd Superstars series come to mind if you haven't watch those already


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This Orton-Cena Cell match is just 20 minutes of pure slow, plodding, FUCKERY.

I mean the Breaking Point match is a FANTASTIC piece of character work, and the Ironman match is DECENT, but THIS? and to think.... I still have yet to watch the Summerslam 2009 match up, which is apparently the most fucking retarded match of them all. YAY ME.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Netflix Canada finally got some WWE shit on there. Any of you recommend the following as must watch:

WWE: Ladder Match 2: Crash and Burn
WWE: The Rise & Fall of WCW
WWE: Tombstone: The History of the Undertaker
WWE: The John Cena Experience
WWE: The Very Best of WCW Monday Nitro
WWE: The Epic Journey of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson
WWE: Hart & Soul: The Hart Family Anthology
OMG! The Top 50 Incidents in WWE History
WWE Macho Madness: The Randy Savage Ultimate Collection
WWE's Greatest Rivalries: Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart
WWE: Undertaker 20-0 The Streak


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Netflix Canada finally got some WWE shit on there. Any of you recommend the following as must watch:
> 
> WWE: Ladder Match 2: Crash and Burn
> WWE: The Rise & Fall of WCW
> ...


Those are the three MUST WATCH DVDs there.

Once the novelty of Shawn and Bret being in the same room wears off, that Greatest Rivalries DVD isn't all it's made out to be, and I'm just talking about the DOC. Matches are complete shit.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Thanks KOK. I haven't seen Tombstone since it's release and remember loving it, and I've never seen the other two so it's much appreciated.

What about Rise and Fall of WCW, any good? The ECW DVD is probably the best I've seen them produced, so I'm intrigued to check this one out.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)
15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)
13. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
12. WWE Championship & Intercontinental Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs Ultimate Warrior(c) (Title vs Title ; Wrestlemania VI)
11. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Career Threatening Match ; Wrestlemania XXIV)
10. Undertaker vs Triple H w/ Shawn Michaels Special Referee ( Hell in a Cell ; Wrestlemania XXVIII)
9. WWE Championship - The Rock (c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XVII)
8. Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII)
7. Intercontinental Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III)
6. Intercontinental Championship - Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Ladder match ; Wrestlemania X)
5. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXV)
4. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Streak vs Career ; Wrestlemania XXVI)*



*3. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Brother vs Brother ; Wrestlemania X)


“Im the best there is, im the best there was and tonight you will find out im the best there ever will be brother” Owen Hart​*











What’s so great about this match is that everyone with a sibling can relate to the story, a younger brother eager to step out of the shadow of his more successful elder brother. This was truly a storyline done right. Two brothers facing off on the biggest stage of them all to prove who the better man was by one thing, WRESTLING. The wrestling in this is the greatest the WWE has ever produced; the crispness of every move the pacing of the match is perfect. Owen playing the cocky young heel eager to prove that he is better than his brother and Bret playing the older brother hesitate towards the situation but also wanting to set Owen straight that he is the best. 

This one starts with WRESTLING, every time Owen breaks a hold he celebrates like he just won the Super Bowl I love it. A very nice 5 minute chain wrestling exhibition by the 2 with a sense that both brothers are equal. I love how many counters each guy has, obviously being brothers they know each other so well. I also love the recurring theme of whenever Bret was getting an advantage Owen would hit him with right hands and slaps, whereas Bret would try to find a counter without physically attacking his brother amazing storytelling. Big move on the outside with Owen driving Bret’s back into the ring post, which is wise for setting up the sharpshooter. The biggest part of the match though is when Bret screws up his previously injured knee leaping over the top rope and landing hard on the floor. Owen like a shark that smells blood in the water attacks the knee ferociously, while Bret sells it to perfection. Bret soon realises he isn’t going to win now with technical wrestling so he tries to hit all his power moves. Bret locks in the sleeper only for Owen to low blow him, and then lock in the sharpshooter the crowd was so into this. Bret finally reverses as he just barely makes it out, then goes for a victory roll only for Owen to counter for the win. The world is shocked, Bret is shocked and more importantly Owen is shocked.

The biggest upset in Wrestlemania History, being an elder sibling I still couldn’t help but to root for Owen C’mon everyone loves an underdog. This is like the Patriots of 2007 a proven Dynasty (Im a Patriots fan) being beat by the Giants in the Super Bowl when no one gave them a chance. Everything about this match is perfect the pacing, storytelling, psychology, selling, emotion and that indeed makes this one of the absolute best matches ever. This is what wrestling is about and the reason why we are fans to see moments like these. Thank you Owen, every year on the day of your tragedy I watch this match to celebrate the life of in my view one of the greatest in ring performers ever. Without question a top 5 match in WWE history and the 3rd greatest match in Wrestlemania history.​
*****​


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Ladder Match 2, Rise & Fall of WCW (lots of good matches on that set), Macho Madness set, Rock documentary is good, and HBK/Bret. If you were a fan during the HBK/Bret era, you'll LOVE it. The rest are nothing special, IMO.

Rise and Fall of WCW doc doesn't go as in depth as they could have, but it was still rather enjoyable. Has some great matches on it, as well. Flair/Steamboat Chi Town Rumble, Southern Boys/Midnight Express, Rock & Roll Express/Midnight Express, Sting/Luger vs. Steiners, Malenko/Eddie Uncensored '97. Lots of very good stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TWO MORE LET'S DO IT.

The WCW one is very WWE-ESQUE. As in, alot of it is centered around the Monday Night Wars and WCW being EVIL and all that good stuff. If you like your good ol fashioned WWE biased documentaries trying to re write history, you'll love that one.

In all seriousness though, the doc is okay. Better than alot of people say it is actually because of the insights of guys like CROCKETT and BILL WATTS.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I have my number 2 wrote up now, but will be stupid not too post them up at the same time, ill try and get it done ASAP its just number 1 will have a pretty lengthy write up like number 2. 

KOK u paid $1 for Brets DVD :mark: that's crazy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You're a PATRIOTS fan? YES.

I must be missing something because I have ZERO fucking clue as to what one of your top 2 is.

ACTUALLY SCRATCH THAT. I KNOW :mark:.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Owen Hart had a badass theme.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That fucking entrance when his music hits and Owen comes out wearing the shades, only to tear them off and rip them in half when he gets on the turnbuckle is one of the most fantastic 'non gimmick' entrances in Wrestlemania history. No crazy theatrics or alternate theme songs, just a bad ass fucking entrance in the defining match of Owen's career.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Alim said:


> Owen Hart had a badass theme.


Yeah. He legit had one of the very best theme songs of all time, if not the BEST.

JIM JOHNSTON.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> You're a PATRIOTS fan? YES.
> 
> I must be missing something because I have ZERO fucking clue as to what one of your top 2 is.
> 
> ACTUALLY SCRATCH THAT. I KNOW :mark:.


Yer first time I went to America about 13 years ago I saw a Patriots game and been a fan since  I'm a big American sports fan :mark: 

Yer no real surprises for my top 2 :mark: both in my top 3 matches ever for WWE. 

@alim yer I love Owens theme so awesome, his performance at WMX is one of my favourites ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret-Owen is the best Mania match ever (no doubt in my mind, of course), but if I'm choosing a GOAT Wrestlemania performance it's going to The Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXVI.

I mean holy shit, every little subtle thing that fucker does in that match is amazing. Even the way he holds himself up with the ropes because he can no longer stand on his own, the way he sells his exhaustion, that's just ART man. Actually do you wanna know something? I'm going to throw out my top 10 individual performances in Wrestlemania history off the top of my head just for the LOLZ. I need to think about it first though :lol.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Yer first time I went to America about 13 years ago I saw a Patriots game and been a fan since  I'm a big American sports fan :mark:
> 
> Yer no real surprises for my top 2 :mark: both in my top 3 matches ever for WWE.
> 
> @alim yer I love Owens theme so awesome, his performance at WMX is one of my favourites ever.


Heh, didn't even see that you had Bret/Owen at #3 until just now. ****1/2 for me. Pretty good spot for it. TOTALLY agree with it not being #1 :lol


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Considering i wrote a review on the cage/i quit match between Tully and Magnum. Page 585, If anyone wants to know. What are everyone's general thoughts on the match?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Heh, didn't even see that you had Bret/Owen at #3 until just now. ****1/2 for me. Pretty good spot for it. TOTALLY agree with it not being #1 :lol


:lmao it's a damn perfect match for me, but it gets beat by the significance of one match and one of the most perfectly booked matches ever with the ultimate ending to a Wrestlemania 

KOK I'm with you I believe Takers performance at 26 may be the greatest performance of any superstar in Wrestlemania history, a top 3 definitely.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If someone said Magnum TA v Tully Blanchard is the greatest match of all time I wouldn't think it's a big stretch.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> :lmao it's a damn perfect match for me, but it gets beat by the significance of one match and one of the most perfectly booked matches ever with the ultimate ending to a Wrestlemania


Oh yeah, very good match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, that list is IMPOSSIBLE, so fuck it. What are some awesome performances though?

John Cena (XXVIII)
The Undertaker (XXVI)
The Big Show (XXIV)
Chris Benoit (XX)
The Rock (XIX)
Shawn Michaels (XIV)
Randy Savage (VII)
Hulk Hogan (VI)

YEAH. GREAT SINGULAR PERFORMANCES.

EDIT : What BING MASTER YEAH said. GOAT gimmick match behind Taker/HBK IMO.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah, that list is IMPOSSIBLE, so fuck it. What are some awesome performances though?
> 
> John Cena (XXVIII)
> The Undertaker (XXVI)
> ...


I wanna throw out Shawn Michaels (XXIV) he worked his backside off to give Ric the best match possible, not a complete carry job but I doubt many could of had a better match with him in that spot. 

Yer Tully/Magnum is the GOAT cage match for me.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Batista and Edge both had impressive performances in their respective matches with Undertaker at Wrestlemania


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Batista (WM23) was his greatest performance ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I know, but just the fact that UNDERTAKER was on his absolute A game both times means that I couldn't really include them.

WWE Championship - Randy Orton(c) vs John Cena (Summerslam 2009) : *1/2 **
WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell ; Hell in a Cell 2009) : *3/4 **

Fuck these matches, some of the worst shit Cena has ever been involved in. Summerslam actually could have been decent if they stopped with all of the fucking nonsense at the end of the match but oh well.... Watching the NWO 08 match now to cleanse my mind of the skull fucking it just received from those two awful matches.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Have fun watching their classic at Unforgiven


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched it about a month ago.

*DUD CITY BITCH, DUD DUD CITY BITCH, RANDY ORTON AND CENA EQUALS SHITTY BITCH.*

Yeah that's right. I JUST did that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

rton

I'm not even sure I could call it a match. It was a pile of shit. That whole PPV was actually. One of the worst ever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's actually way worse than December 2 Dismember IMO. At least that had the awesome tag match opener.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Not really, Unforgiven 2007 just reeked of averageness/mediocrity. It really wasn't that bad, as for the Cena/Orton match. The only purpose of it, was to forward the feud and considering how short it was, It can't really be called bad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

People paid MONEY to see it though.

Same way they paid for Taker/HBK @ GZ 97 and Taker/BROCK @ Unforgiven 2002, even though both of those main events (obviously meant to further the push towards the HIAC matches) they still delivered and actually gave us something AWESOME in the process.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it sucks. Looking too much into it though. On a night where WWE decided to brand Undertaker's return as the emphasis on the true "main event" it was logical enough to push Cena vs Orton as a feud advancer and build on their heat heading into No Mercy. It only feels like a waste considering the injury Cena would suffer so close to the event.


----------



## Dec_619 (Oct 9, 2012)

Watched Monday Night Wars last night, dayuuuuum it was good! Didn't realize how much the WCW Superstars hated working there in late 1999.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, it sucks. Looking too much into it though. On a night where WWE decided to brand Undertaker's return as the emphasis on the true "main event" it was logical enough to push Cena vs Orton as a feud advancer and build on their heat heading into No Mercy. It only feels like a waste considering the injury Cena would suffer so close to the event.


Did you see my review on the cage/i quit match?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched WM 25 last night:

MITB Match- ***1/4 (too many blown spots)
Ms. Wrestlemania Battle Royale- DUD
Jericho/Legends- *** (Steamboat was fuckin awesome here)
M.Hardy/J.HArdy- **3/4
Mysterio/JBL- N/A
HBK/Taker- *****+(best match of all time)
CEna/Edge/Show- ***1/2
HHH/Orton- *

Overall: Great WM here, with only 2 bad matches and one that it was only 20 seconds.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

No mercy 2007 last ppv I ever got live. Biggest bunch of shit. I swear to u the only good thing to come out of that was now in 2013 I noticed.how sexy beth was


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

96powerstroker said:


> No mercy 2007 last ppv I ever got live. Biggest bunch of shit. I swear to u the only good thing to come out of that was now in 2013 I noticed.how sexy beth was


:ali This Guy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 25 review in my BLOG~! 

VERY surprised at how good it was overall. Shame the main event was trash.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Fully Loaded 1998 review​*Before the show starts (which for some reason isn’t on the Home Video version I’m watching) King finds Sable in the back and asks to see her outfit for the bikini contest later in the show. She goes behind one of them wall things where you can see her shadow and takes off her top. King goes to have a look and his eyes pop out of his skull almost. Funny little moment. Feels a little weird to start a PPV with it but whatever, it was short.

*Match 1: Val Venis vs Jeff Jarrett ****
Not a bad opener here. They kept a good pace and it was a solid match. Yamaguchisan is on commentary rambling about things, as Venis and Kaientai were feuding at the time after Venis hit on and then had sex with his wife. Yeah. I have to say, despite being stupid, it has been entertaining. There was some interference for the finish but I don’t have much of a problem with that, and it was quite prominent in this era so you’ll learn to live with it.

*Match 2: D-Lo Brown vs X-Pac *1/2*
This probably could have been a title match. D-Lo won (or ‘stole’) the European title from HHH on the previous episode of Raw. But it’s not like they gave a shit about that title anyway. I digress, the match was okay. That’s about all I have to say because nothing really sticks out. This match also had interference during the finish.

*Match 3: Farooq & Scorpio vs Terry Funk and Bradshaw ***
I thought this match was kinda fun. But it came completely out of nowhere and I had no idea these guys were teaming until now. I think as a result of this, the crowd was pretty dead. Before the match, Terry said it would be his last, Bradshaw was annoyed for finding out just now, but the crowd has no reason to care about this because they only just brought it up. Anyway, it plays into the finish a little as following the match Bradshaw attacks Terry and then everyone else. He also hit Scorpio with a brutal clothesline. Anyway, the match was decent (though a little wonky in spots) and it didn’t outstay its welcome.

*Match 4: Vader vs Mark Henry 1/2*
This started out promising. I thought it would be a cool, hard-hitting hoss fight. They were running into eachother doing a test of strength thing but then for a good minute they didn’t seem to be communicating and were screwing up moves (seemed to be mostly Henry’s fault. I love the guy now, but back then he wasn’t very good at all). It was awkward and after that it was just boring. Henry got a clean win, cool.

Paul Bearer came out with Kane and Mankind. It’s still weird watching his stuff, I’ll probably get over that soon though as he was pretty heavily featured on Raw in 97 and 98 so far. He cuts a good promo and then the New Age Outlaws come out and they brawl for a bit before being sent away.

*Match 5: LoD vs DoA No stars*
Boring as shit, just like every other match between the DoA and LoD over the last year. Seriously, this feud feels like it has been going on forever. The feud sucks, the teams suck (well LoD is okay, but DoA was terrible from the beginning) and their matches suck. I hope this shit ends soon. Ellering was brought in to make it more interesting I guess, but I had to google search to find out who he was. Even then I still didn’t give a rat’s ass when he ‘turned’ on LoD minutes after showing his face for the first time. Total crap. The finish was screwy with the DoA twins doing a switcheroo but who cares?

McMahon came out to say that if Undertaker no shows for his tag team match then his replacement will be the Brooklyn Brawler. You can tell they were having fun.

*Match 6: Owen Hart vs Ken Shamrock **1/2*
This was a little different. It was a dungeon match. It took place in the Hart Dungeon and was a submission only match. Dan Severn was the special referee. It was a really hard hitting and violent match up. I wasn’t expecting that at all, they were beating the hell out of each other and then trying to lock in submission holds. This was just fun to watch really and considering the nature of it, it didn’t need to last more than the 5 or so minutes it got. The only thing being that the finish was screwy and kind of dumb. Severn got knocked over, then Owen knocked out Ken with a dumbbell, locked in a submission move and moved Shamrock’s hand up and down to make him tap out. This really could have had a better finish.

*Match 7: The Rock vs Triple H **1/2*
This is 2/3 falls for the Intercontinental championship. Boy was there a lot of interference in this one. That’s not necessarily bad for this match because it made an otherwise fairly boring match a lot more exciting. The Rock got the first fall with a Rock Bottom after D-Lo distracted Triple H. The ref gets knocked out with a chair and then Chyna comes in, low blows Rock and DDT’s him, Triple H gets the pin. Then they only have a couple of minutes left as there is a 30 minute time limit and they are desperately trying to get the win. Triple H hits a pedigree but the ref won’t count it and then the bell rings. So it ends on a time limit draw though it really looked like the ref had enough time to count that. Apart from it being botched, it was a good finish to keep the feud going. I thought this would be a lot better than it was. It got better after the first fall but I struggled to pay attention before that. That first fall took a good 20 minutes, that was a pretty boring 20 minutes I’m sorry to say. And oh my goodness all those run-ins.

*Match 8: Sable vs. Jacqueline ***
Bikini contest yay! The video they used to hype the match made me realise how terrible their promos were, particularly Jacqueline’s. I mean, I knew they were bad while I was watching them on Raw, but Jesus. Anway, they come out and do their thing and everybody knows what happens here (if you don’t, Sable has the hands painted on her breasts) and it’s awesome. Oh and Jackie shows some nipple. Yeah this is a good segment. I gave it two stars but it doesn’t really matter. This was just entertaining. Really entertaining.

*Match 9: Kane & Mankind vs The Undertaker & Stone Cold Steve Austin ***1/2*
This was for the tag team titles. The champions come out first, then Taker has new music, which is similar to the one he uses later as the ‘Ministry’ theme. I love that one and I like this one too. This starts out as a fairly standard tag team match for the first 5 minutes or so, then it picks up and gets pretty good. At one point Taker flipped off Austin, which Austin enjoyed, funny moment. They got to the outside and all sorts of things happen, Mankind takes a great bump from the apron to the announce table. Though it’s not that big of a deal I guess especially after Mick proved himself to be absolutely fucking insane at the last PPV. Anyway, Austin hits Kane in the face with a chair but fails to get the pin. The match calms down a bit from there with Austin being isolated for a while. Austin ends up hitting a couple of stunners and reaches for Taker who seems to tag reluctantly. He then comes in, destroys Kane and Mankind and gives Kane a tombstone. Taker and Austin are the new tag team champions and Taker walks off with both belts. This was a pretty good main event. 

So overall, just like most PPVs from 1998 that I’ve seen so far, Fully Loaded isn’t really worth watching. Nothing from this is really that good that you should go out of your way to see it. The main event is the only match worth watching, other than that and Sable, there really isn’t much else here. It somehow forms a fairly entertaining show though so I'll give it a 4/10


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Flair/Taker from Mania 18.
> 
> Taker attempts the Last Ride, but weird moment here, as it looks like Flair sandbags a bit, but JR calls it as a backbreaker. Taker says fuck it and hits the Tombstone for the win.


I didn't know what to make of this myself, initially i thought Flair sorta just blocked the attempt, then i thought it may have been a botch of some sort.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

zep81 said:


> I didn't know what to make of this myself, initially i thought Flair sorta just blocked the attempt, then i thought it may have been a botch of some sort.


I thought it was cause Flair had severe back troubles, So he couldn't take a Last Ride. Flair may of told Taker mid-move to perform the tombstone instead. I wouldn't be surprised if the tombstone was the real botch cause Flair's head actually did bounce off the mat, lucky he didn't get paralyzed or suffer some sort of brain damage.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Jesus cal, little surprised at the Hardy/Hardy match although I haven't seen it since it happened so it may go up on a rewatch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was surprised too haha. Need to see their stretcher match again from SD too because I used to think it was better than their WM match. Would be pretty incredible if it still holds up as being better now I like their WM match so much more lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Decided to go on a frenzy and rewatch a ton of matches, Be sure to rate the matches yourselves:

Undertaker vs. Mankind - 
Buried Alive *(****)* 
KOTR 96' *(***1/2)*
Survivor Series 96' *(***3/4)* (Taker's leather outfit was awful though )

Undertaker vs. John Cena - RAW 2006 *(***)* (Solid match with high pacing)
Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy - SD 2010 - Extreme Rules Match *(***1/4)* (Good fun but mostly just a rehased version of their Ladder match in 2002)
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Ground Zero 97' *(***3/4)* (Extremely fun all out brawl and the overbooking actually helped in this case)

John Cena vs. CM Punk - 
Summerslam 2011 *(**1/4)* (Solid stuff but the length hurt it in a big time way)
Night Of Champions 2012 *(****1/4)* (One of their greater bouts for sure)
Summerslam 2012 with Big Show *(***1/4)* (Fun little match, the overbooking was annoying though)
Survivor Series 2012 with Ryback *(***3/4)* (Loved this match, Ryback was on point and brought his A game. I still don't like him or his character though)

John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Big Show vs. Kane vs. The Miz - RAW MITB 2012 *(****1/4)* (Big Show getting buried with the ladders was hilarious, Jericho as usual showing how it's done and Cole as always, awful on commentary, he said we have 5 established HOFers within this match. Errrr, did you forget about The Jiz? fpalm) 

Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - Extreme Rules 2012 - 2 Out-Of 3 Falls Match *(****1/2)* (Still holds up as strong as before. Two of my current favorites going at it, was awesome) 

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven 2008 - Unsanctioned Match *(****)* (Even though this match is pure SPOTZ, It's still great fun and often gets overshadowed by their amazing ladder match at No Mercy)

DX vs. Legacy - HIAC 2009 - HIAC Match *(**)* (Was high on this match before but now it falls flat and feels way too forced)

Sheamus vs. Orton vs. Jericho vs. Del Rio *(***1/2)* (No rating change, A little clustered but still a great match)

Matt Hardy vs. Edge - Summerslam 2005 *(****)* (Them stiff punches and kicks and also that spear through the second rope :mark:, Definitely should of went longer though)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Batista vs John Cena (Summerslam 2008) : ******

Was really tempted to add another quarter onto this but never, consider this to be the best Batista-Cena match ever due to the leg work being awesome, Batista NOT botching the figure four, the true 'clash of the titans' type bout with both guys hitting their best stuff, just an AWESOMELY AWESOME match all around on one of my favorite PPVs ever ; Summerslam 2008. These fuckers added PSYCHOLOGY to a big time match, something that alot of guys need to do more often.

Also, that Summerslam 2011 match between Cena and Punk is the third best match of 2011 in my eyes, and one of my favorite matches ever. It doesn't tell quite as good of a story as MITB (and it has a pretty screwy ending) does but the action is more technically sound and both guys pull out all the stops to see who is the better man. Not sure which I'd have higher ; this one or the one on RAW that happened less than two months ago (which is an instantly classic and could quite honestly be the best match in RAW history for me, certainly the best RAW match of the 2000s). FAVORITISM puts the Summerslam 2011 one ahead.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Batista vs John Cena (Summerslam 2008) : ******
> 
> Was really tempted to add another quarter onto this but never, consider this to be the best Batista-Cena match ever due to the leg work being awesome, Batista NOT botching the figure four, the true 'clash of the titans' type bout with both guys hitting their best stuff, just an AWESOMELY AWESOME match all around on one of my favorite PPVs ever ; Summerslam 2008. These fuckers added PSYCHOLOGY to a big time match, something that alot of guys need to do more often.
> 
> Also, that Summerslam 2011 match between Cena and Punk is the third best match of 2011 in my eyes, and one of my favorite matches ever. It doesn't tell quite as good of a story as MITB (and it has a pretty screwy ending) does but the action is more technically sound and both guys pull out all the stops to see who is the better man. Not sure which I'd have higher ; this one or the one on RAW that happened less than two months ago (which is an instantly classic and could quite honestly be the best match in RAW history for me, certainly the best RAW match of the 2000s). FAVORITISM puts the Summerslam 2011 one ahead.


Insert your TROLL Cena MOTY list here, I dare you. http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/752690-moty-each-year-since-2002-a.html


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Batista vs John Cena (Summerslam 2008) : ******
> 
> Was really tempted to add another quarter onto this but never, consider this to be the best Batista-Cena match ever due to the leg work being awesome, Batista NOT botching the figure four, the true 'clash of the titans' type bout with both guys hitting their best stuff, just an AWESOMELY AWESOME match all around on one of my favorite PPVs ever ; Summerslam 2008. These fuckers added PSYCHOLOGY to a big time match, something that alot of guys need to do more often.
> 
> Also, that Summerslam 2011 match between Cena and Punk is the third best match of 2011 in my eyes, and one of my favorite matches ever. It doesn't tell quite as good of a story as MITB (and it has a pretty screwy ending) does but the action is more technically sound and both guys pull out all the stops to see who is the better man. Not sure which I'd have higher ; this one or the one on RAW that happened less than two months ago (which is an instantly classic and could quite honestly be the best match in RAW history for me, certainly the best RAW match of the 2000s). FAVORITISM puts the Summerslam 2011 one ahead.


Another good review my friend. I think it's a true crime I haven't seen that match yet, probably the biggest match I can think of that I haven't seen before on PPV. One quick question before I head off to bed, you put Cena/Punk on Raw over Powertrip/Benoit&Jericho?

:cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Posted a legit one, although most people won't take it seriously because I have "LOZ CENA CAN'T WRASSLE" with 3 MOTYs win 07,11, and 12, w/ 2013 not being surpassed yet (although I'm 70 percent sure it will be judging the past few years).

Yeah, Cena-Khali @ Judgment Day still holds up. Brilliant.

EDIT : What TIME is it over there? Yeah, I re-watched that match and it went down to a ***** 1/4* for me, closer to 'just four' then one may think. It's a classic match but it might not even be the best normal 2 on 2 tag in RAW history (Bulldog/Owen vs HBK/Austin might hold that distinction). The only match that I can think of right now that would be up there with Cena-Punk is Bulldog-Owen and MAYBE Bret-Waltman.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks KOK, You are a very nice man indeedie.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Gambol to Gambol, The Peter Griffin Story.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Posted a legit one, although most people won't take it seriously because I have "LOZ CENA CAN'T WRASSLE" with 3 MOTYs win 07,11, and 12, w/ 2013 not being surpassed yet (although I'm 70 percent sure it will be judging the past few years).
> 
> Yeah, Cena-Khali @ Judgment Day still holds up. Brilliant.


Which do you consider the better triple threat match for the WWE championship, Summerslam 2012 or Survivor Series 2012?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm so nice that you had to say it twice.

... and Survivor Series 2012 by a fair margin.

:cena3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I watched Judgement Day 2007 today. Can't believe Khali did a roundhouse kick :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched Vengeance 2005 last night, holy fuck does Batista/HHH HIAC hold up, what a fucking all out war, they made it so real, made the hate so real, some real brutal spots, Hunter bloody like a stuffed freaking pig, the part where he choking Batista with that chain - whoa, awesome, awesome, awesome :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Just about to watch WM 26. God I hope it holds up. Am I the only one who can't understand a single word R-Truth sings beyond "what's up"? :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I actually kind of feel bad for him, I'm pretty sure that he's so fucked up on whatever that he has no idea what he's saying either .

If one can't appreciate Khali-Cena for what it is, I think it's more or less a gauge on how you view Cena as a worker. I mean, he technically wrestles himself and makes it awesome with his AWESOME selling of Khali's shitty offense.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Posted a legit one, although most people won't take it seriously because I have "LOZ CENA CAN'T WRASSLE" with 3 MOTYs win 07,11, and 12, w/ 2013 not being surpassed yet (although I'm 70 percent sure it will be judging the past few years).
> 
> Yeah, Cena-Khali @ Judgment Day still holds up. Brilliant.
> 
> EDIT : What TIME is it over there? Yeah, I re-watched that match and it went down to a ***** 1/4* for me, closer to 'just four' then one may think. It's a classic match but it might not even be the best normal 2 on 2 tag in RAW history (Bulldog/Owen vs HBK/Austin might hold that distinction). The only match that I can think of right now that would be up there with Cena-Punk is Bulldog-Owen and MAYBE Bret-Waltman.


It's nearly 2 in the morning here. 

Bulldog/Owen vs HBK/Austin :mark: 

For me Bulldog/Owen would probably get my vote for best ever Raw match, with only the Powertrip/Jericho&Benoit and Bret/Kid being incredibly close. 

Yer for the other question Survivor Series is far superior to the Summerslam triple threat.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I WOVE you guys for keeping my MOTY thread alive :angel, Hopefully it won't get buried like most of my posts here. :frustrate (Including my 600 word review)

EDIT: Damn at them casual SMARKZ putting matches like Rock/Hogan, Flair/HBK and Cena/Edge TLC as MOTYs.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WAIT SO.... It's FRIDAY there?

Bulldog-Owen is boss no doubt, an awesome, awesome match, but I think it might be secondary to Cena-Punk in all honesty. I'm a kind of guy who won't hesitate to give a recent match a high rating if its an awesome match like alot of people do, as I realize that the quality of matches that the E produces is higher than ever due to A; the sheer quantity of matches the company is pumping out on a weekly basis (more PPV matches = more big time ratings). B; we live in an era where it seems as if pure in ring work means more than ever, evidenced by guys such as punk and Bryan being able to go out there for an extended period of time and WRESTLE. C; the quality of the main event players (full time) is fantastic from Cena to Punk to Sheamus , etc. 

That's why you'll see a staggering FOUR matches from the PG Era in my top 10 matches ever ; they've produced a big time match with a big time story every full year since its inception.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Bulldog/Owen, Bulldog & Owen/Austin & Michaels, and Hart/Kid just might be my Top 3 Raw matches ever. There are quite a few other candidates to choose from.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> WAIT SO.... It's FRIDAY there?
> 
> Bulldog-Owen is boss no doubt, an awesome, awesome match, but I think it might be secondary to Cena-Punk in all honesty. I'm a kind of guy who won't hesitate to give a recent match a high rating if its an awesome match like alot of people do, as I realize that the quality of matches that the E produces is higher than ever due to A; the sheer quantity of matches the company is pumping out on a weekly basis (more PPV matches = more big time ratings). B; we live in an era where it seems as if pure in ring work means more than ever, evidenced by guys such as punk and Bryan being able to go out there for an extended period of time and WRESTLE. C; the quality of the main event players (full time) is fantastic from Cena to Punk to Sheamus , etc.
> 
> That's why you'll see a staggering FOUR matches from the PG Era in my top 10 matches ever ; they've produced a big time match with a big time story every full year since its inception.


Yer it's Friday, so fucked up when I came home from America last year, I like miss a whole day :lol

I'm the same I won't hesitate to give a high rating to such a current match either, think I have 3 matches from the PG era in my top 10 and probably 3 or 4 more in my top 25.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@Clique

Are you talking bout the RAW match with Dynamite Kid or The 1-2-3 Kid?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some thoughts on Edge/Taker One Night Stand Match? I thought it was great and I have it at ***3/4 to ****, might give it a rewatch


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's weird because I never hear ANYBODY talking about Hart-Kid. Had an extended conversation w/ Waltman once upon a time about that match, and he basically came out and said that that particular match with Bret is the greatest match of his career by FAR. Like, as in that one match is worth more than the sum of his whole career :lol.

I'd be inclined to agree with him on that one, match is fucking awesome. Bret in 1994 man...

EDIT : Edge-Taker is FUN, but terrible.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Some thoughts on Edge/Taker One Night Stand Match? I thought it was great and I have it at ***3/4 to ****, might give it a rewatch


The TLC match? It's not good.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I actually kind of feel bad for him, I'm pretty sure that he's so fucked up on whatever that he has no idea what he's saying either .
> 
> If one can't appreciate Khali-Cena for what it is, I think it's more or less a gauge on how you view Cena as a worker. I mean, he technically wrestles himself and makes it awesome with his AWESOME selling of Khali's shitty offense.


 I don't think the match was GREAT. It was good for what it was but nothing too special.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah I heard many people complaining 'bout it, but I found it very enjoyable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm not overly fond of matches where I know what spots are coming before they happen. Or a match that's just filled with spots and little to nothing else.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Yeah I heard many people complaining 'bout it, but I found it very enjoyable.


It's fun and enjoyable to sit through, but I couldn't put a decent star rating on it. 

It's just all about spots and nothing else really.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

In spot based matches the less contrived the spots and the setup for the spots the more credit and appreciation I give. Edge/Taker TLC gets like 0 in that department.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's just that its, you know, THE FUCKING UNDERTAKER. 

We all know he's better than a shitty spotfest, I don't know why he felt the need to stoop down to that level in his "I'm a veteran and I'm better than all of you fuckers" phase ; maybe he just wanted to do one just to say that he did it? I don't know.

Cena-Khali is **** 1/4* btw, fucking awesome for the time it got and considering it had THE GREAT KHALI in it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> @Clique
> 
> Are you talking bout the RAW match with Dynamite Kid or The 1-2-3 Kid?


123 Kid. 

The match is on the Raw 15th Anniversary DVD. 

Found it on dailymotion too: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs230i_bret-hart-vs-1-2-3-kid-wwf-title_sport


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was there live for Edge/Taker TLC and while it was fun watching Taker fly through the air into 4 tables, everyone saw it coming a mile away. Basically after the setup it was mostly down to, "OK, who is eating those tables," because you knew the spot would happen. That's a hard spot to pull off in a non-contrived way.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> @Clique
> 
> Are you talking bout the RAW match with Dynamite Kid or The 1-2-3 Kid?


Dynamite Kid on Raw, must have missed that


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Mike Awesome/Tanka ONS is MOTN by miles on end.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Chair shots to the head = *****


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH's chair shot to Taker's head at 27 was BOSS because they're BANNED!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One of the reasons that Taker-HHH XXVII > > XXVIII.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH's chair shot to Taker's head at 27 was BOSS because they're BANNED!


Makes me a tad intrigued on the HHH-Lesnar match being 'No Holds Barred', can they indeed push the envelope some what..


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I think the Edge/Taker hiac match is overrated.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH's chair shot to Taker's head at 27 was BOSS because they're BANNED!


Didn't they get in trouble for that? :lmao It was pretty awesome, though. Not sure why people like to shit on that match. It was a hard-hitting war. 



zep81 said:


> Makes me a tad intrigued on the HHH-Lesnar match being 'No Holds Barred', can they indeed push the envelope some what..


Yeah, I'm hoping HHH/Lesnar just beat the shit out of each other for 30 minutes. Hopefully they go above and beyond their Summerslam match (which I thought was good).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah they were 'fined' apparently :lol.

The six big names both part and full time can get away with shit like that from time to time, where as if somebody like DOLPH did it, he'd be jobbing to Santino the next week for sure.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Speaking of Lesnar, was that "Here Comes The Pain" DVD a re-release of the one from years ago?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, it was a re-release. 

An AWESOME re-release. BUY IT NOW.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah they were 'fined' apparently :lol.
> 
> The six big names both part and full time can get away with shit like that from time to time, where as if somebody like DOLPH did it, he'd be jobbing to Santino the next week for sure.


Tbf, Dolph isn't far from that level at the moment. Not sure why the briefcase holders job so often (Cena excluded).

@ Movement - IIRC, there isn't any new material from that BROCK DVD. In other words, nothing from his 2012-present return. It's still BROCK, though, so of course it's LEGIT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I'm hoping HHH/Lesnar just beat the shit out of each other for 30 minutes. Hopefully they go above and beyond their Summerslam match (which I thought was good).


Yeah, it'd better be good 










EDIT - Info for BROCK DVD/BD:

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/review-brock-lesnar-here-comes-the-pain-collectors-edition-dvd/29494/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HE BRINGS LEGITIMACY BACK TO THE WWE.

I'm in denial about this being Game's last match man, that match is going to one of the most conflicted matches I've ever watched in my life. I think I'll go back and forth to be honest ; one second I'll want GAME to keep his career and the next I'll want BROCK to keep his monster momentum going. It's a lose-lose situation though, and that really fucking pisses me off, a big reason I didn't want GAME's career on the line. 

2004-2006 KING OF KINGS is my favorite character from any point in time EVER. I don't know how it's going to feel to be honest, I just don't think it's real yet.

EDIT : just decided that there's no way I can root against TRIPS in his last match, no matter who it is against. I would just feel DIRTY for the rest of my life if I did that .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After numerous recommendations on here, i bought the _John Morrison Rock Star DVD_ (only cost £1 from Amazon )


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big Z said:


> :mark: Just about to watch WM 26. God I hope it holds up. Am I the only one who can't understand a single word R-Truth sings beyond "what's up"? :lmao


Nope! No way anyone can understand what the guy is saying.

------------

Finishing Bad Blood 2004 today, review coming tonight. Let me just say, it's nowhere near as bad as other folks make it out to be, or at least other reviews I've read.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Benjamin/Orton
GOAT/HBK
Benoit/Kane

The show is legit, first one I ever owned on DVD too, so it holds a soft spot in my heart honestly.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Teaser for my review:

Orton/Shelton is FANTASTIC and extremely underrated.

Actually it was one my first dvds too. I used to own a shit ton of shows from '04, but a lot of them just weren't worth it to keep around so I sold them.  Vengeance, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Taboo Tuesday.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Angle/Benoit (Unforgiven 2002) ****
- Angle/Lesnar (WM 19) ***1/4 _(too low? i. think. not.)_
- Angle/Lesnar (SummerSlam 2003) ***1/2 _(sounds about right)_


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why aren't you a fun of BROCK/Angle?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> After numerous recommendations on here, i bought the _John Morrison Rock Star DVD_ (only cost £1 from Amazon )


£1?! How the hell did you get it that cheap?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Seems Like that Angle/Benoit and the Angle/Lesnar WM needs to be switched asap.

And that Summerslam rating is baffling.

EDIT- Yeah ABH i was thinking that especially as delivery from Amazon is £1.26 if you order from the marketplace alone and Amazon themselves wouldn't be selling it that low. I've found it for £3.50 but I'm not sure if it's worth it


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Why aren't you a fun of BROCK/Angle?


WM is nothing special, and SS was amazing up until the appearance of the Satan himself.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> £1?! How the hell did you get it that cheap?


From a company called _Zoverstocks_, who operate through Amazon, was described in 'very good' condition, got it today, disc/case is in perfect condition (Y)

Technically it was .98p with £1.53 postage.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BROCK-Angle from SummerSlam is absolutely awesome. Angle doing that inverted sleeper OUT OF NOWHERE looked so great.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Teaser for my review:
> 
> Orton/Shelton is FANTASTIC and extremely underrated.
> 
> Actually it was one my first dvds too. I used to own a shit ton of shows from '04, but a lot of them just weren't worth it to keep around so I sold them.  Vengeance, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Taboo Tuesday.


I wasn't a big fan of it when I first saw it but I need to refresh my memories. Because at the time I hadn't truly started appreciating awesome ring work and SPECIALLY, how perfect young Randal was back then.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I wasn't a big fan of it when I first saw it but I need to refresh my memories. Because at the time I hadn't truly started appreciating awesome ring work and SPECIALLY, how perfect young Randal was back then.


You should find it and watch it today so we can compare reviews tonight.  Orton in '03-'04 was just... off the charts. Even with the overruse of chinlocks, he was still great. It at least looked good when he applied it, like he was really wrenching it in. ORTON


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You should find it and watch it today so we can compare reviews tonight.  Orton in '03-'04 was just... off the charts. Even with the overruse of chinlocks, he was still great. It at least looked good when he applied it, like he was really wrenching it in. ORTON


I have it downloaded so it's on play right now. Orton's pre-match promo was total greatness! :mark: The cockiness, the energy, his natural charisma. Dammit, where did all that go? (his charisma still shines through nowadays as he can get an instant reaction without doing much but he relies on it too much and doesn't display it which causes some idiots to say that he doesn't have any)

And I'd stretch it out and say Orton from 2003-2007 was off the charts. He had better control of the mic from 2005 onwards and stuttered less while his ring work remained great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got the Morrison DVD for about £1.50 new and sealed on play.com just last week through a seller. Bought a bunch of wrestling DVD's at the same time and paid no more than £2, even for 2 disc special editions of the likes of Vengeance 06 and ONS 06 (comes with the first ever ECW PPV), all new and sealed.


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

I loved Orton from 2003-2006. His matches with Mick Foley at Backlash and Benoit at SS in 2004 were awesome :mark:. I'll have to re-watch those soon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I got the Morrison DVD for about £1.50 new and sealed on play.com just last week through a seller. Bought a bunch of wrestling DVD's at the same time and paid no more than £2, even for 2 disc special editions of the likes of Vengeance 06 and ONS 06 (comes with the first ever ECW PPV), all new and sealed.


I need to start checking Play more often, i tend to just check Amazon first and foremost.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Orton's performances has improved in the last couple of weeks. Not surprising considering the Shield feud is the first real program he has been in since mid 2011. Even prior to the Shield feud, he was still showing emotions in his matches like when he was facing Mark Henry or when he lost the chamber match. It looked like he was about to cry when Swagger pinned him lol


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Randy isn't used not being in the spotlight


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

JoeRulz said:


> - Angle/Benoit (Unforgiven 2002) ****
> - Angle/Lesnar (WM 19) ***1/4 _(too low? i. think. not.)_
> - Angle/Lesnar (SummerSlam 2003) ***1/2 _(sounds about right)_


I feel like you just do this for shock value. Terrible ratings.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

So what is everyone watching this weekend, or attending? There is a lot of shit going on, not just Wrestlemania.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Coffey said:


> So what is everyone watching this weekend, or attending? There is a lot of shit going on, not just Wrestlemania.


 Non wrestling: Football on Saturday (Arsenal are playing) and then I'm going to watch more football on Sunday. I think Real Madrid are playing on Sunday but Tottenham vs Everton is a match I'm going to watch because it's so important for the top four race. 

As for wrestling, TNA is going come on at 9:00pm here on England so I'm probably going to watch that. Then Wrestletalk comes on at 11, I think. After that, I'm going to watch Wrestlemania (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

After Mania/Accounting exam, I'm probably going to start on a WCW Nitro cruiserweights project from 1996-1998. It will probably be my first ever long-term project where I actually review matches. Should be tons of fun.

I did recently watch a really good match between Razor Ramon and Shawn Michaels on the 8/1/94 edition of RAW. This match was so much fun mainly because it does one thing extraordinarily well: pacing. Razor and HBK did not take a single break in this 20+ minute match. Every move meant something and every rest period had something going on that made it captivating. For instance, when Razor was putting on a bearhug on Michaels, Michaels kept trying to strategically pull Razor's hair to break the hold. Correct me if I am wrong, but this was also Michaels' first RAW match after the WM X ladder match. As expected, Shawn puts on a spectacle with his bumping and selling. Diesel also played a great role with being the bodyguard of Michaels outside of the match. Easy ****** match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Going to the HBK/Bret Q&A session tonight in NYC at Hotel Pennsylvania. Get to meet both of them (met both already at different times) and possibly ask them a question during the Q&A.

CAN'T WAIT.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

-Mystery- said:


> I feel like you just do this for shock value. Terrible ratings.


Subjectivity is tricky, I guess.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin - Bad Blood 2004*
- Okay, I was very wrong last time. This match rules! Starts off with a kick ass Orton promo before it and then Shelton interrupts him and the match starts with an "unready" Orton panicking which looked hilarious. Shelton controls the early portion and it's enjoyable as he throws Orton around and tries to catch him slippin' with numerous roll-ups all of which Orton successfully kicks out of. Then the transition for Orton's heel control segment is done wonderfully as Shelton misses a Stinger Splash and the match takes a turn with Shelton working from under. At the same time, Ric Flair turns up to a lot of WOO's in the crowd! After a few minutes of chinlocks by Orton, the pace picks up with lots of excellent back and forth as both guys hit their signature moves and Orton even does that awesome Gutwrench Neckbreaker. It gets really fun in the end as Shelton pins Orton near the ropes after a T-Bone Suplex but Flair puts Orton's foot on the rope causing a break and then tries to strut walk his way to the back as Shelton runs after him and brings him into the ring. He does an awesome job kicking both Orton and Flair's ass and even gives Flair the Figure Four while having Orton rolled up. But when he does the Crossbody, it's reversed by Orton for the final three and the IC Champion retains. Fantastic match and a very good #2 MOTN after the excellent Benoit/Kane match. I don't know what to give this in the end. Either 3 and 3 quarters or the full four, but since I rate Benoit/Kane a full four, I'll go 3.75 here. ★★★¾


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I have Orton/Shelton at *** but fully agree on Benoit/Kane being.****.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I haven't been able to finish Angle v Lesnar from WrestleMania the last two times I've tried to watch it. That 'NCAA'-whatever matwork in the beginning parts were so goddamn boring I just turned it off. I used to love it and call it the best Angle match, too. The SummerSlam re-match is one I've never really gotten. I mean I always thought it was good (though I haven't watched in like four years I think), but I see ****1/4+ for it and I never saw that, even when I liked Angle.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just rewatched John Cena vs The Rock and I still like it. A ***1/2 or ***3/4 IMO. Some good exchanges, beliavable nearfalls and the finishing spots were done very well. Both did a great job in the match but I wouldn't call it a total carryjob. Yes you can see Cena calling some spots (when he headlocked ROCK and during the bearhug) but ROCK did his part in the match as well. For example, selling his rib injury (which Cena attacked in the opening minutes) well, selling the STF very well and also setting up Cena for that finish, crossbody into an AA. My only criticism is that the match took way long (just over 30 minutes). Apprantly, the match this weekend is set to be for about 25-30 minutes long but I hope that's not true. ROCK's condition looks worse this year but hopefully we'll still see a good match.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I watched the Elimination Chamber 2013 match today and it was great. I give it **** and loved the work of everyone. Henry was the star for me. That double suplex he took from Swagger and Jericho was awesome to see.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I loved how Randy was almost crying after Swagger pinned him


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I didn't get that at all but it seems to be popular to hate on Orton at the moment so that doesn't surprise me. I think he is the most underrated wrestler in WWE on here at the moment.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

To be fair it has been popular to hate on Orton on here since like 2007.

He has just become boring imo - whether he's bored with his character, his direction has reached a dead-end, etc. Has he had a legit match since the Christian feud?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> To be fair it has been popular to hate on Orton on here since like 2007.
> 
> He has just become boring imo - whether he's bored with his character, his direction has reached a dead-end, etc. Has he had a legit match since the Christian feud?


 Nope. Although the Shield match is his first real feud since Christian/Mark Henry. I don't think he is turning heel though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

He had that feud with Barret


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> To be fair it has been popular to hate on Orton on here since like 2007.
> 
> He has just become boring imo - whether he's bored with his character, his direction has reached a dead-end, etc. Has he had a legit match since the Christian feud?


Orton/Ziggler from Night of Champions 2012 was very good imo (and that was in Sept), but not on that great level of the Orton/Christian series of course.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Orton seems to not be able to go a month without getting injured or suspended these days.

Hoping they do something with him post mania .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> Nope. Although the Shield match is his first real feud since Christian/Mark Henry. I don't think he is turning heel though.


Yeah, honestly I think a heel turn is necessary at this point. Throughout his career it's clear that his best work has come as a heel. Might reignite a flame in him or something. He needs it.



Srdjan99 said:


> He had that feud with Barret


Where they fought like every week? That was awful.

edit @ Clique - Forgot about the Ziggler match. That was actually pretty good.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The Lady Killer said:


> To be fair it has been popular to hate on Orton on here since like 2007.
> 
> He has just become boring imo - whether he's bored with his character, his direction has reached a dead-end, etc. Has he had a legit match since the Christian feud?


Kane at Extreme Rules 2012 - ***1/2
Ziggler at Night Of Champions 2012 - ***3/4
ADR at Hell In A Cell 2012 - ***1/4

Those are just singles matches in the last year I liked a lot. I an not saying people have to love him but it seems like no one even likes him anymore. He still puts on very good matches.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, honestly I think a heel turn is necessary at this point. Throughout his career it's clear that his best work has come as a heel. Might reignite a flame in him or something. He needs it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I want him to turn heel but the only slight negative in a heel turn at WM is that it means Cena is unlikely to turn heel in the same show. I can't see WWE turning two stars heel. Has that ever happened before? Two top faces turning heel in one show? Both are unlikely to turn heel, unfortunetly. Who do you think needs the heel turn more? Cena or Orton?

I think Srdjan99 meant the feud before WM 28 where Barrett got injured.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena needs it more imo, because he's the bigger star and it could garner the most interest. Plus he has been a face for 10 years and his character got stale around 2006-2007. I don't buy the fact that turning him heel would cost them money because I think the older crowd would start liking him more, and all but restoring balance to his fanbase. 

As for which is more likely, it's obviously Orton for the reason stated above.


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

Dark Church said:


> I watched the Elimination Chamber 2013 match today and it was great. I give it **** and loved the work of everyone. Henry was the star for me. That double suplex he took from Swagger and Jericho was awesome to see.


That match was Randy Orton's best moment since 2011! He looked so damn good in that match and eliminated both Chris Jericho and Mark Henry. I was absolutely shocked. Crowd was on fire for Randy! That should have been his return to main event status. Then Jack Swagger wins with a rollup... ugh


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> Orton seems to not be able to go a month without getting injured or suspended these days.
> 
> Hoping they do something with him post mania .


That was last year. And most of these injuries were just cover-ups because he kept taking breaks. First one when Barrett "pushed" him down the stairs because he had some personal shit.

I'm optimistic that they'll turn him heel at Mania. Cena is clearly not turning any time soon plus Punk is taking a break so they need somebody to be the #1 heel. He'll definitely bounce back up after Mania.

And FUCK ORTON VS BARRETT. This is a match that should NEVER ever happen again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Angle from WrestleMania isn't a great match. It's quite good, but certainly not great. Summerslam 2003 on the other than though. Yeah, that one is forever bossy.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> John Cena vs The Rock but I wouldn't call it a total carryjob.


I wouldn't either because one of them actually has to wrestle well to carry the other and neither did.

I just d/l'ed the 2000 pack that went up on XWT and planning on watching 00-06 and watched a couple and some thoughts:

Hardcore Holly vs Jericho vs Chyna - RR
Match sucked and mostly because of Chyna. Her offense is awful and it really exposed the business because she's so small compared to the others.

Hardys vs Dudleys - Table match
One of my favorite matches. Just crazy from the outset with both teams trying to win. 

HHH vs Cactus Jack - RR 00
I'd be repeating a lot of other peoples thoughts on this match so I'll just say it's a great match and one of the best WWE has turned out since 2000.

Thought of making this topic in the other wrestling section but maybe you guys can help me out. Can you give me a list of the craziest matches you've seen? Like brawls all over the arena or intense matches like Angle/Austin at SS 01 or Cole/Steen from PWG or the triple ladder from PWG last year. Thanks.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I agree with HayleySabin on Angle vs Lesnar at WrestleMania 19. I never did like that match. Pretty boring for the most part. Although I did enjoy their Summerslam match along with their Iron Man match for the WWE championship on Smackdown. 



Parison Sapphire said:


> I loved Orton from 2003-2006. His matches with Mick Foley at Backlash and Benoit at SS in 2004 were awesome :mark:. I'll have to re-watch those soon.


Agreed. Orton during his Legend Killer days were tremendous stuff. He was smooth on the mic and in the ring, showing a lot of charisma and potential of being the top guy of the company. He also played his cocky, arrogant character to a T.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Randy used to be soooo awesome, can't say that now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2013 plug: it seems as if any non-squash tag match with The Wyatt Family _(Luke Harper & Erick Rowan)_ is worth watching. They did it again on NXT this week - vs Adrian Neville & Bo Dallas. Heck of a tag match match. Only heightened in quality considering the norm/state of current tag team wrestling on WWE TV. I'm not surprised, per say, considering my love for Luke Harper as it is. Damn though if it isn't an awesome showing of consistency that I'm i'm loving right now.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Going to the HBK/Bret Q&A session tonight in NYC at Hotel Pennsylvania. Get to meet both of them (met both already at different times) and possibly ask them a question during the Q&A.
> 
> CAN'T WAIT.



Lucky fuck!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> *Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin - Bad Blood 2004*
> - Okay, I was very wrong last time. This match rules! Starts off with a kick ass Orton promo before it and then Shelton interrupts him and the match starts with an "unready" Orton panicking which looked hilarious. Shelton controls the early portion and it's enjoyable as he throws Orton around and tries to catch him slippin' with numerous roll-ups all of which Orton successfully kicks out of. Then the transition for Orton's heel control segment is done wonderfully as Shelton misses a Stinger Splash and the match takes a turn with Shelton working from under. At the same time, Ric Flair turns up to a lot of WOO's in the crowd! After a few minutes of chinlocks by Orton, the pace picks up with lots of excellent back and forth as both guys hit their signature moves and Orton even does that awesome Gutwrench Neckbreaker. It gets really fun in the end as Shelton pins Orton near the ropes after a T-Bone Suplex but Flair puts Orton's foot on the rope causing a break and then tries to strut walk his way to the back as Shelton runs after him and brings him into the ring. He does an awesome job kicking both Orton and Flair's ass and even gives Flair the Figure Four while having Orton rolled up. But when he does the Crossbody, it's reversed by Orton for the final three and the IC Champion retains. Fantastic match and a very good #2 MOTN after the excellent Benoit/Kane match. I don't know what to give this in the end. Either 3 and 3 quarters or the full four, but since I rate Benoit/Kane a full four, I'll go 3.75 here. ★★★¾


Hells yes, there we go. Great match, finishing HHH/HBK then my review will be up.



Dark Church said:


> I have Orton/Shelton at *** but fully agree on Benoit/Kane being.****.


Rewatch that shit!



Dark Church said:


> I watched the Elimination Chamber 2013 match today and it was great. I give it **** and loved the work of everyone. Henry was the star for me. That double suplex he took from Swagger and Jericho was awesome to see.


(Y) #2 MOTY for me right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton vs Shelton is quite good. I'll always enjoy it and at that time it was probably the biggest match WWE could have done for me outside of anything involving Undertaker or Eddie Guerrero.

This year's elimination chamber match is bullocks. Mark Henry was great. Rest did absolutely nothing. All deserve to be slapped. Legit took nearly 20 minutes for something to happen. What the hell is that nonsense all about?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Bad Blood 2004

**World Tag Team Championship
*La Resistance (c) vs. Edge & Chris Benoit - ** 1/4

Chris Jericho vs. Tyson Tomko - **

*Intercontinental Championship
*Randy Orton (c) vs. Shelton Benjamin - ****

*Women's Championship* - *Fatal Four Way*
Victoria (c) vs. Lita vs. Trish Stratus vs. Gail Kim - ** 1/4

Eugene vs. Jonathan Coachman - N/A (FUN)

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kane - ****

*Hell in a Cell
*Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - ** 3/4


*Overall: 7/10*

- Pretty standard stuff in the first two matches. The finish to the Tag Title match was used to build up Kane/Benoit, which is fine and everything, but why couldn't that have been on RAW? Enzuigiri finish in the Jericho match looked terrible.

- Oh man, Orton/Shelton is really great and a total gem. Shelton comes out like a house of fire, going for constant pinfall attempts and Randy's COMPLETELY caught off guard until he finally moves out of the way of a stinger splash and puts that cocky smile back on his face. His control segment was very well done and I'll always mark for a standing sitout neckbreaker or whatever the fuck it's called. Awesome sequence where both guys just slug it out with some really stiff forearms and kicks which converts over into some really smooth counters and transitions. It amazes me how well these two worked together and how legitimately good Shelton looked in this. Got some seriously close nearfalls late in the game and the finish is an absolute perfect way to make your challenger look great and keep the big time heat on the cocky champion. Incredibly fun & well structured contest that put a huge smile on my face. Can we get some more thoughts on this match please???

- Lita's tits + Gail's ass + Gail's submissions + Gail's selling = a fun divas match. GAIL 

- So I though Eugene/Coach was a lot of fun, shoot me. Eugene's antics were hilarious and he showed a slew of actual wrestling ability. Coach's reactions to everything were great, especially while Eugene is in the human pretzel and Coach just yells "What are you doin!?" :lol

- Benoit/Kane is such a manly match. Extremely physical contest loaded with great psychology from both guys. Smart for Kane to work on Benoit's neck and for Benoit to work on the legs in response to chop the larger man down to size. It was great how Kane overpowered nearly every submission attempt until either his leg was weakened or Benoit caught him off the top ropes. Very clever finish too, as I was hoping Kane wouldn't have to tap. Underappreciated match and quite possibly the best of Kane's career.

- The obvious downfall of HHH/HBK is the length. 47 minutes for those who aren't aware. The first 20 or so are just kind of unnecessary as it feels like a repeating cycle; back work from Hunter, mini comeback from Shawn, brawling on the outside, repeat. The best part of the match by far is when they introduce the weapons. The first shot with the steel steps on Shawn is NASTY, great force and speed. The thing I'm gonna remember most from watching this was the bump Shawn took on his shoulder to the ringpost. Seriously, the smack on that is hard to watch. Legit sounded like it shattered. It gets a little ridiculous down the stretch with the overselling of all the punishment and the last 5 minutes are pretty much spent on the mat, but I understand what they were going for, I just don't think it needed to be that long.

- So two excellent matches and everything else was certainly watchable. The undercard matches were relatively short and harmless and Eugene/Coach was a fun time killer. Opinions vary on the HIAC, but it's certainly not awful.​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> Thought of making this topic in the other wrestling section but maybe you guys can help me out. Can you give me a list of the craziest matches you've seen? Like brawls all over the arena or intense matches like Angle/Austin at SS 01 or Cole/Steen from PWG or the triple ladder from PWG last year. Thanks.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x71n3v_tommy-dreamer-the-gangstas-vs-elimi_sport#.UV45FZMzgrU



Agree with Cody in Mark Henry being the Chamber match this year. No, I didn't mistype that. He WAS the Chamber match. Like, once he got in the match revolved around him and once he was counted out we were left with standard piles of nothing. Still annoys me he didn't win and that's reason #1 for me not watching WrestleMania. Hell, I haven't really watched WWE at all since then.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Our thoughts on Shelton/Orton and Kane/Benoit are pretty much mirroring each other. 

I would go lower on the HIAC match, though. But that's because I don't care enough about their feud to have the attention span for nearly 50 minutes, specially with the slow pace and forced attempts at making it epic.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Our thoughts on Shelton/Orton and Kane/Benoit are pretty much mirroring each other.
> 
> I would go lower on the HIAC match, though. But that's because I don't care enough about their feud to have the attention span for nearly 50 minutes, specially with the slow pace and forced attempts at making it epic.


It took me two sittings to get through it, as I fell asleep last night.  Right when the ladder was brought in. That's exactly what it was though, forced. It's definitely a dvd people should own, due it to being the only place you'll find the two matches mentioned.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry WAS THE MATCH. _(added more caps so I didn't exactly make a parrot post)_ It's not a lie. Honest truth. He does everything to make the match into something other than a lifeless blur, get eliminated and then back to nothing till a shocking win.

As for Bad Blood, I'm in near agreement with everything stated. Except for Orton vs Shelton being great. b/c it isn't for me. Never has and never will. Like I stated, like the match though. When it comes to that event, it is Benoit vs Kane or bust. _(in terms of MOTN)_

b/c this is the damn pulse of the thread these days:

La Resistance vs Benoit/Edge ~ **
Jericho vs Tomko ~ *1/2
Orton vs Shelton ~ ***1/4
Women's Championship ~ **
Eugene vs Coach ~ FUN
Benoit vs Kane ~ ****
Trips vs HBK ~ **1/2

do with it what you will. decent show with a dull crowd.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll agree that Henry was the main factor that made the match great, but after he got eliminated and destroyed everyone it left a huge sense of mystery as far as who the winner would be. The triple threat in the end was balls awesome excitement, tbhayley. 

Love how all my ratings are juuuust a tad higher than yours. Crowd was pretty dull though.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x71n3v_tommy-dreamer-the-gangstas-vs-elimi_sport#.UV45FZMzgrU


Thanks. A shame they changed the Eliminators theme since it was GOAT worthy imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Definitely agree on a dull crowd. I rewatched Benoit/Kane a couple of days ago and went down on it a bit because the crowd is so dull until Benoit is in control and goes for his submission holds.

As for Elimination Chamber this year, Henry was definitely the main star but I enjoyed the match a lot because I experienced it live (not in the arena but I mean when the match took place) and was heavily invested as the Orton mark in me really came out during those 30 minutes. And besides, I'm a sucker for the chamber structure itself and always enjoy the matches that take place inside it unless they are overly boring.

Who knows what happens if I rewatch it, though. I _did_ go from ★★★★ to ★★½ for Punk/Cena from SummerSlam on second watch and the impossible _did_ happen when my rating for Punk/Bryan from MITB went up to ★★★ after bashing it non-stop.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

An ever so slight margin between our views. :hayley1

I'm at a total loss on what to watch right now. Got a few hours to kill before Impact and drawing a blank. Might as well just go slam through some more Superstars circa 2011. I'm bound to get another Drew McIntyre match in there somewhere. Think the match vs Danielson is on the next show. Yeah, I'm so going to watch that again.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Benoit/Kane :mark: its ****** stars for me as well. 

Bad Blood was a solid PPV, have pretty much the same ratings as Cody, the only think I have different is the HIAC at ***** But I like the match more then most, but it does seem very forced.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Now I've finally finished watching every single SummerSlam match Randy Orton has had so far. The last one that was left is 2010 against Sheamus. ★★★ for this one. Enjoyed it for the most part except the middle portion which was pretty dull with Sheamus in control and the stupid DQ ending. And fuck, Sheamus is such a silly pale goofball. :lol The beginning specially cracked me up when he has Orton cornered and then like a child, he pounds his chest twice then stretches his arm out for his signature pose along with his yelling. And obviously the over the top selling of the RKO on the announce table post-match. Sheamus is truly awesome!

Throwing out STARZ for Orton's SummerSlam matches just for the hell of it:

Elimination Chamber (2003) - ★★¾
vs Benoit (2004) - ★★★★½
vs Undertaker (2005) - ★★★★¼
vs Hogan (2006) - ★★½
vs Cena (2007) - ★★★★
vs Cena (2009) - ★
vs Sheamus (2010) - ★★★
vs Christian (2011) - ★★★★¼


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Watching various Wrestlemania stuff the past month or so. 

Triple H vs. Owen Hart from Wrestlemania XIV needs more love, I really dug this match this viewing. 
DDP vs. Christian from Wrestlemania XVIII is another good match, I've always liked it. 

***1/2 for both.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh I'll forever love Owen vs Trips from Mania 14. It's pretty much the sole reason why I bought Triple H's King of Kings two disc set. Along with vs Mankind KOTR '97 finals.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That Orton/Sheamus match is so dull beyond belief. If they have a feud this year I hope they actually try this time 

Watched this years EC match and Rock/Punk from the same event earlier. 

EC: **
Rock/Punk: DUD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punker vs Rock II earns a massive *** from myself. I mean, obviously the match sucks, but it is a hell of an improvement from their Rumble...spectacle. Yeah, that works. Punker using a headlock for 15 minutes of a 20 minute match is a positive in this series, folks. I think that says it all. This Sunday better have a pay off or Rock truly is a worthless sack of crap in the ring. _(not withstanding any final closing moment and/or post match shenanigans)_ Understand his worth from a business perspective. I'm not in the biz, so fuck it. I'm not pleased.

Agreed on the Chamber rating, Ever Wolf.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh I'll forever love Owen vs Trips from Mania 14. It's pretty much the sole reason why I bought Triple H's King of Kings two disc set. *Along with vs Mankind KOTR '97 finals*.


YES.

My personal favorite in their AWESOME 1997 Series which featured multiple matches at ******.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Metlzer gave 4 stars to one of the Punk/Rock matches, fpalm. Guess it's true, markers never stop marking.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I would have given Rock/Punk a *** but the stupid stipulation knocks it down for me. As well as the bullshit (2 in a row!) ending.

I never, ever want to see Punk & Rock in the same ring again. It's disastrous when it should have been a lot of fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> YES.
> 
> My personal favorite in their AWESOME 1997 Series which featured multiple matches at ******.


Nothing will beat the Cactus Jack vs Helmsley Falls Count Anywhere match for me, but the KOTR is close. tbf, I'd have to see Canadian Stampede & Steel Cage from SummerSlam again to really stick by this. I know myself though & I know how much I've watched the FCA match. It's a burning love for it. Pre-match promo and all.



Ever Wolf said:


> I would have given Rock/Punk a *** but the stupid stipulation knocks it down for me. As well as the bullshit (2 in a row!) ending.
> 
> I never, ever want to see Punk & Rock in the same ring again. It's disastrous when it should have been a lot of fun.


Maybe that ol' second watch would make me lower things, but I really, really don't want to see it again so I'm fine with keeping my thoughts where they are. The matches are trash. It's done. Moving on to WM where both can surely have a better match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd throw four stars at ALL FIVE HHH-Foley 1997 matches, their chemistry was linear like Christian and Orton except that this was even BETTER. All the matches are so close in quality to me that I can't even comprehend it, seriously.

Throwing on Cena-Edge from Backlash 2009 to see how it holds up, and then the pair of BIG SHOW 2009 PPV matches that everybody seems to hate besides me.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Been watching some Sting-TNA stuff and whizzed through 2 matches that i was pleasantly entertained by:

Sting/Angle (for the TNA Championship) - Bound For Glory 2007 *(****)*
Sting/Foley (for the TNA Championship) - Lockdown 2009 *(***1/2)*

Anyone got any good suggestions for Sting matches in TNA? Been fascinated by his stuff/work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Edge is weak. Not nearly as much fun or as "great" as I once thought.

oh, and you should know by now how often I've put over & defended like every Cena vs Show match. Except for NWO '12 where I found that match to only be solid. But it isn't bad though.

head over to the TNA equivalent to this thread, TWF, & I'll hook you up. Shocked you liked the Foley match. It's truly horrible.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*** 1/4* for Edge-Cena. 

I enjoyed the FUCK out of the last 5-7 minutes as everything just went out of control like it SHOULD have been like for the entire duration of the match, but the storytelling in this one is really bad at times. They're in the first 10 minutes of the match and do nothing overly violent yet need to hold each other up at a nine count, when one minute later they're exploding into various sequences? OKAY THEN. It has the HHH-HBK LMS DISEASE in the sense that the match really doesn't have a middle portion. It's like okay let's feel each other out and then BAM FINISHERS> At least this match kept the OMG FINISHERS AND CRAZY SHIT portion long and exciting. 

Like I said, I'm a big fan of the last few minutes, but the first two halves on this match don't hold up very well at all, overrated by many.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I can't remember much about that Cena/Edge match, is it the one where Show throws Cena into a lamp or something? :lol

Am i correct in saying that Miz had his best match against JERRY LAWLER. IN 2010. ?

Because right now i can't think of a better Miz match :lmao To be fair it's a great match, not taking anything away from Lawler, it's just odd.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Show blew Cena up in a spotlight. Seriously.

It's one of the only great matches The Jiz has had in his awful, awful career, but Miz's best match ever would be against Daniel Bryan @ NOC 2010.

I'd probably put the Bryan match, the Morrison FCA, and the Cena RAW match over that one to be honest. The TlC match was pretty great though, one of Miz's like FIVE matches at ****+* :lol :lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Miz's best match is probably some TV match with Morrison, I did enjoy their 2011 (Where Miz Was Champ) RAW match a lot.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Holy shite, i forgot about the D Bry match, i need to watch that match again asap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Top Miz singles matches:

vs Daniel Bryan ~ Night of Champions + RAW 2/14/11
vs John Morrison ~ RAW 1/3/11
vs Jerry Lawler ~ RAW 11/29/10 & Elimination Chamber 2011
vs John Cena ~ RAW 5/2/11

since triple threats would fit the billing:

vs CM Punk & Alberto Del Rio ~ TLC 2011
vs Daniel Bryan & John Morrison ~ Hell in a Cell 2010
vs John Cena & John Morrison ~ Extreme Rules 2011 _(yeah, I like it.)_

This isn't even counting any tags. or vs Cesaro from Elimination Chamber 2013. Or various matches vs Randy Orton that I recall enjoying. OR even vs John Cena the RAW following The Bash 2009. I've enjoyed enough Miz matches out there. He may be obnoxious again atm - or still to those who never thought that vanished - but meh, I can find quality in him when the matches work. He's had bad & he's had good.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

i immensely liked his match with CM Punk and Morrison in that triple threat at Survivor Series 2007.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, good stuff. I liked Punker vs Miz from Cyber Sunday '07 too now that I think about it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Miz is still horrible though, I don't think i have even one of his matches over a **** rating.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Daniel Bryan hits the four star level for me. And I HARDLY feel someone not having many "high star level" matches is where someone draws the line on their talent or not. Another mentality I'll never subscribe to unless say the majority of ones matches were all very, very poor. If I'm talking in terms of using snowflakes to purely judge someone - * star and lower territory. Matt Morgan & Big Excrement Langston style. Miz rapes those chumpstains simply due to actually having a track record of good matches under his belt.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Metlzer gave 4 stars to one of the Punk/Rock matches, fpalm. Guess it's true, markers never stop marking.


He did what lol  He must have been playing WWE13 or something, yikes.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@Hayley

Whatever, I don't feel like having an argument, especially about The Jiz. I digress, Have you watched TLC IV lately? It still holds up for me as the greatest TLC match ever.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

zep81 said:


> He did what lol  He must have been playing WWE13 or something, yikes.


Here comes the pain is the best WWE video game EVER.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

How the hell was either of those Punk/Rock matches near 4 stars? What is Meltzer smoking? In fact, I don't think if you combined most people's ratings of both matches it still wouldn't be 4 stars!

Here Comes The Pain was definitely the best WWE game. The roster on that one was superb.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've never liked the Miz and suspect I never will, but he's better than a lot of people give him credit for, and has more good matches than people give him credit for. I don't thnk he's a guy who will have really good matches (and if he is, he's not the guy making the match really good), but he's solid enough depending on what role he plays. I hated the fact he got the WWE title because I don't think he's all THAT good, but ignoring the over-push, he can be solid nonetheless. And even with my hate for his title run, during it he had the good Lawler match (E.Chamber - I never saw the TLC, which I have open on youtube ready to either watch or shut down and forget about), the Morrison FCA, a good Bryan match on Raw, and the night after he lost the title he had the Cena match on Raw. He also had the worst Mania main event of all time, but, yeah, there were good matches in his run. Again I don't really like him, he can absolutely suck ass, and if he left the company I'd feel more positive feelings than negative ones (in fact I don't think I'd fell any negative ones whatsoever tbh tbhayley lmao rofl bbq), but he's probably a slightly above average worker who *can* actually add more to a match than subtract to it, and isn't my least favourite wrestler in the company any more. I've been itching for a long time to watch 2008 ECW in full and I'd like to see how the Miz/Morrison tag team looks with my current set o' eyes, and how Mizzy comes out looking in them.


Keep him the fuck away from a mic, though. At all times. Heel or face. Honestly, I couldn't stand him at all at one point because of how much I hate his fucking promos. I can sort of look away from that now and appreciate the 'OK worker' part of him, but I never want to hear his voice again and I sincerely want them to keep him away from a microphone. I thought he might work better as a face, and then I saw the Punk promo; "YOUR MOM _SOMETHING SOMETHING I FORGET_ OHHHHHHHHH". Shut the FUCK up. I regurgitated. Keep. Him. The. Fuck. Away. From. A. Mic.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> How the hell was either of those Punk/Rock matches near 4 stars? What is Meltzer smoking? In fact, I don't think if you combined most people's ratings of both matches it still wouldn't be 4 stars!
> 
> Here Comes The Pain was definitely the best WWE game. The roster on that one was superb.


Yea, my only gripe with the game, was they had Taker and Austin at an overall of 85 when others like Benoit, The Rock, Goldberg, Angle and Lesnar had like 86 - 92 overalls. I could understand them putting Austin so low considering he stomped out in 2002 but Taker? Benoit was also still a midcarder in 2002/2003. So i don't know how they put him at an overall of 86.

I also liked SD vs. RAW 2006, SD vs. RAW (the first one) and the one where Undertaker was the Default Undisputed Champion.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*World Heavyweight Championship Project - 2008/2009:*

_(Because there's a little "lack of time" problem, won't do write ups)_
Edge/Rey Royal Rumble 08 - ***3/4
Edge/Rey No Way Out 08 - *1/2
Edge/Taker WrestleMania 24 - ****1/2
Taker/Batista Smackdown April 25 08 - ***1/2
Taker/Edge Backlash 08 - ***3/4
Taker/Edge Judgment Day 08 - ***1/2
Taker/Edge One Night Stand 08 - ****
Edge/Batista Night Of Champions 08 - ***3/4
Edge/Punk Raw June 6 08 - 1/4* (MITB cash-in, that rating was because of the MASSIVE pop it got only)
Punk/JBL Raw June 6 08 - **3/4
Punk/Batista The Great American Bash 08 - ***1/4
Punk/Batista Raw July 12 08 - ***
Punk/JBL SummerSlam 08 - ***1/4
Championship Scramble Unforgiven 08 - ***
Jericho/Punk Raw September 15 08 - ***1/4
Jericho/HBK No Mercy 08 - ****3/4 (The abrupt finish ruined a potential ***** rating)
Jericho/Batista Cyber Sunday 08 - ***1/2
Batista/Jericho Raw November 11 08 - **3/4
Jericho/Cena Survivor Series 08 - ****
Cena/Jericho Armageddon 08 - ***3/4

Cena/JBL Royal Rumble 09 - ***
Elimination Chamber No Way Out 09 - ****1/2
Edge/Cena Raw February 2 09 - ***
Edge/Cena/Show WrestleMania 25 - ***1/4
Cena/Edge Backlash 09 - ****1/2
Edge/Jeff Judgment Day 09 - ***3/4
Edge/Jeff Extreme Rules 09 - ****1/4
Jeff/Punk Extreme Rules 09 - 3/4* (Another MITB cash-in, Jeff's fighting and kick-out bumped it up)
Punk/Edge/Jeff Raw June 15 09 - ***1/2
Punk/Jeff The Bash 09 - **1/2
Punk/Jeff Night Of Champions 09 - ***1/4
Jeff/Morrison Smackdown July 31 09 - ***1/2
Jeff/Punk Smackdown August 7 09 - ***1/4
Jeff/Punk SummerSlam 09 - ****1/2
Punk/Jeff Smackdown August 21 09 - ****
Punk/Taker Breaking Point 09 - **1/4
Punk/Taker Hell In A Cell 09 - ***
Taker/Punk Smackdown October 23 09 - **1/2
Taker/Punk/Batista/Rey, Bragging Rights 09 - ***1/4
Taker/Jericho/Show Survivor Series 09 - ***1/2
Taker/Batista TLC 09 - *
Taker/Rey Smackdown December 23 09 - **3/4

*UPDATED WHC MATCH RANKING:
Booker/Lashley, Smackdown 11/6/2006 (Can't find it)
Batista/Orton, Smackdown 11/22/2005 (N/R)
Batista/JBL, The Great American Bash 2005 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
Khali/Batista, SummerSlam 2007 (DUD)
Taker/Edge, Smackdown 5/11/2007 (DUD)
Booker/Batista, Survivor Series 2006 (DUD)
Booker/Batista, SummerSlam 2006 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
Punk/Edge, Raw 6/6/2008 (1/4*)
Batista/Angle, Raw 6/20/2005 (1/2*)
Jeff/Punk, Extreme Rules 2009 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
Angle/Henry, Royal Rumble 2006 (3/4*)
Booker/Batista, Smackdown 10/20/2006 (*)
Batista/Taker, TLC 2009 (*)
Batista/Hassan, Raw 5/30/2005 (*1/4)
20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 7/20/2007 (*1/4)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)
Edge/Rey, No Way Out 2008 (*1/2)
HHH/Jeff, Raw 9/16/2002 (**)
Batista/Booker, Smackdown 9/8/2006 (**)
Batista/JBL, Smackdown 9/9/2005 (**)
Edge/Batista, One Night Stand 2007 (**)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
Punk/Taker, Breaking Point 2009 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)
Edge/Batista, Judgment Day 2007 (**1/2)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
Punk/Jeff, The Bash 2009 (**1/2)
Batista/Edge, Raw 5/23/2005 (**1/2)
Taker/Punk, Smackdown 10/23/2009 (**1/2)
Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005 (**1/2)
Taker/Rey, Smackdown 12/23/2009 (**3/4)
Booker/Cena/Show, Cyber Sunday 2006 (**3/4)
20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 1/13/2006 (**3/4)
Punk/JBL, Raw 6/6/2008 (**3/4)
Batista/Jericho, Raw 11/11/2008 (**3/4)
Batista/Christian, Smackdown 7/7/2005 (**3/4)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005 (**3/4)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
Punk/Batista, Raw 7/12/2008 (***)
Batista/Edge, Smackdown 11/30/2007 (***)
Championship Scramble, Unforgiven 2008 (***)
Edge/Cena, Raw 2/2/2009 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
Punk/Taker, Hell In A Cell 2009 (***)
Cena/JBL, Royal Rumble 2009 (***)
Angle/Rey/Orton, WrestleMania 22 (***)
Booker/Rey, Smackdown 7/25/2006 (***)
Booker/Taker, Smackdown 7/31/2006 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Punk/Jeff, Night Of Champions 2009 (***1/4)
Punk/Batista, The Great American Bash 2008 (***1/4)
Jericho/Punk, Raw 9/15/2008 (***1/4)
Khali/Batista/Rey, Unforgiven 2007 (***1/4)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Maven, Heat 7/13/2003 (***1/4)
Punk/JBL, SummerSlam 2008 (***1/4)
Jeff/Punk, Smackdown 8/7/2009 (***1/4)
Taker/Punk/Batista/Rey, Bragging Rights 2009 (***1/4)
Edge/Cena/Show, WrestleMania 25 (***1/4)
Khali/Batista, No Mercy 2007 (***1/4)
Rey/Booker, The Great American Bash 2006 (***1/4)
Rey/Angle, Smackdown 4/28/2006 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
Batista/Kennedy, Royal Rumble 2007 (***1/4)
Goldberg/Jericho, Raw 9/22/2003 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
HHH/RVD, Raw 6/30/2003 (***1/2)
Taker/Jericho/Show, Survivor Series 2009 (***1/2)
Taker/Batista, Smackdown 4/25/2008 (***1/2)
Khali/Batista/Kane, The Great American Bash 2007 (***1/2)
Jericho/Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008 (***1/2)
Booker/Batista/Finlay/Lashley, No Mercy 2006 (***1/2)
Rey/JBL, Smackdown 5/26/2006 (***1/2)
Punk/Edge/Jeff, Raw 6/15/2009 (***1/2)
Rey/Sabu, One Night Stand 2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Bubba, Raw 9/30/2002 (***1/2)
Taker/Edge, Judgment Day 2008 (***1/2)
Batista/Kennedy, Smackdown 2/9/2007 (***1/2)
Goldberg/Henry, Raw 10/6/2003 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005 (***1/2)
Jeff/Morrison, Smackdown 7/31/2007 (***1/2)
Edge/Batista, Vengeance 2007 (***1/2)
Rey/Henry, Smackdown 6/23/2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Flair, Raw 5/19/2003 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)
Taker/Batista, Smackdown 5/11/2007 (***3/4)
Edge/Rey, Royal Rumble 2008 (***3/4)
Edge/Batista, Night Of Champions 2008 (***3/4)
Benoit/Kane, Raw 6/28/2004 (***3/4)
Rey/JBL, Judgment Day 2006 (***3/4)
Edge/Jeff, Judgment Day 2009 (***3/4)
Taker/Edge, Backlash 2008 (***3/4)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
Cena/Jericho, Armageddon 2008 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)
Batista/Taker/Edge, Armageddon 2007 (****)
Taker/Edge, One Night Stand 2008 (****)
Batista/Booker/Finlay, Smackdown 11/28/2006 (****)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Batista/Eddie, No Mercy 2005 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Punk/Jeff, Smackdown 8/21/2009 (****)
Jericho/Cena, Survivor Series 2008 (****)
Batista/Taker, Cyber Sunday 2007 (****)
Angle/Taker, Smackdown 3/3/2006 (****1/4)
Edge/Jeff, Extreme Rules 2009 (****1/4)
Batista/Taker, Survivor Series 2007 (****1/4)
Taker/Batista, Backlash 2007 (****1/4)
Rey/Orton, Smackdown 4/7/2006 (****1/4)
Elimination Chamber, No Way Out 2009 (****1/2)
Cena/Edge, Backlash 2009 (****1/2)
Jeff/Punk, SummerSlam 2009 (****1/2)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****1/2)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Batista/Taker, WrestleMania 23 (****1/2)
Edge/Taker, WrestleMania 24 (****1/2)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Batista/HHH, Vengeance 2005 (****3/4)
Jericho/HBK, No Mercy 2008 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
Angle/Taker, No Way Out 2006 (****3/4)
HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)*​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll upload that Booker/Lashley, Smackdown 11/6/2006 match for ya so you can at least see it .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm kinda hoping they do a Top 10 Matches for WM30, like they did for WM20. It was on Skysports with Ric Flair as the host and also on WM20's 3rd disc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their list was utter shite though, so fuck them doing another terrible one .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Yea, my only gripe with the game, was they had Taker and Austin at an overall of 85 when others like Benoit, The Rock, Goldberg, Angle and Lesnar had like 86 - 92 overalls. I could understand them putting Austin so low considering he stomped out in 2002 but Taker? Benoit was also still a midcarder in 2002/2003. So i don't know how they put him at an overall of 86.
> 
> I also liked SD vs. RAW 2006, SD vs. RAW (the first one) and the one where Undertaker was the Default Undisputed Champion.


 WWE 13 is the best wresting game since Here Comes the Pain IMO. I've gotten so used to it now as well


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Their list was utter shite though, so fuck them doing another terrible one .


Yea i know, that's why i wanna see them fuck up another one, It would be hilarious. The WM20 list was this, if i recall correctly:

10. Benoit/Angle - WM17
9. Hogan/Warrior - WM6
8. Austin/Shawn - WM14
7. Hogan & Mr. T/Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff - WM1
6. Hart/Austin - WM13
5. Hogan/Rock - WM18
4. Steamboat/Savage - WM3
3. Ramon/Shawn - WM10
2. Hardy Boyz/Dudley Boyz/E&C - WM16
1. Hart/Shawn - WM12

I wonder what would of you guys put? Keep in mind, this was all before WM20. So no Taker/Shawn and before the streak matches got good.


----------



## Wig Splitter (May 25, 2002)

Big Z said:


> I'll upload that *Booker*/Lashley, Smackdown 11/6/2006 match for ya so you can at least see it .





TheWrestlingFan said:


> I'm kinda hoping they do a Top 10 Matches for WM30, like they did for WM20. It was on *Skysports* with Ric Flair as the host and also on WM20's 3rd disc.







I don't know why but I just had to :romo2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 26 review finally posted today . Oh how the mighty have fallen .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Damnnn cal, you one tough motherfucker to please 

Agreed on Taker/HBK though, the greatest match ever for me, everything about it is just as perfect as it could have been. 

That Cena/Tista rating is


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Yea i know, that's why i wanna see them fuck up another one, It would be hilarious. The WM20 list was this, if i recall correctly:
> 
> 10. Benoit/Angle - WM17
> 9. Hogan/Warrior - WM6
> ...


Just trying to look over my list, mine would go like:

1. Bret/Austin Wm13
2. Bret/Owen Wm10
3. HBK/Razor Wm10
4. Steamboat/Savage Wm3
5. Savage/Warrior Wm7
6. Rock/Austin Wm17
7. Hogan/Warrior Wm6
8. Savage/Flair Wm8
9. Rock/Austin Wm19
10. HBK/Jericho Wm19

After reading Cal's review of Wm26, it's making me want to move HBK/Taker up from 4 on my Wm countdown. But as I have stated on any given day I could change any of my top 5 matches they are so close.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Mine would probably be:

1. Bret/Owen
2. Bret/Austin
3. Rock/Austin - WM19
4. Savage/Steamboat 
5. TLC - WM17
6. Rock/Austin - WM19
7. Savage/Warrior
8. Ramon/Shawn 
9. Undertaker/Trips - WM17
10. Rock/Hogan


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The opening couple of sentences of the Sheamus/HHH review made me LOL. And the one line review of Vince/Bret was well said too. I'm actually in agreement with most of the ratings. That Edge/Y2J match always disappoints me. I often go back and watch it hoping it'll grow on me and be much better but never seems to happen. Such a shame.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

1. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X)
2. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIII)
3. Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
4. The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIX)
5. Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper (Wrestlemania VIII)
6. Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania III)
7. Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior (Wrestlemania VII)
8. Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XIX)
9. Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon (Wrestlemania X)
10. KURT ANGLE VS BROCK LESNAR (WRESTLEMANIA XIX)

- Kings.

Watching John Cena vs Batista from OTL 2010. Batista tries to murder Cena, but like many others before him FAILS. Yeah this match doesn't exactly hold up as I remember, kind of depresses me. TWO STARZ (meaning I still don't think it's bad).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> 1. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Wrestlemania X)
> 2. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIII)
> 3. Ric Flair vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
> 4. The Rock vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XIX)
> ...


Cena was employed with WWE when WM XIX rolled around, How does it make you feel that Cena wasn't included on the card? :flip


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> Cena was employed with WWE when WM XIX rolled around, How does it make you feel that Cena wasn't included on the card?


Didn't he have a rap segment on Sunday Night Heat or something? Plus, Kane/RVD were bumped off of the card too. Pretty pathetic that it was because of a Miller Light Catfight girls segment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not Rock316AE, I couldn't care less :lol.

The Cena-Kane series was actually really good. Sure, the feud was completely BAD at times but I really enjoyed the Rumble match and ESPECIALLY the Ambulance match @ EC where I thought they told a nice story of Cena rubbing it in Kane's face that he wasn't embracing the hate the entire time, allowing Cena to have some fun with the match as it progressed. It certainly had a slower pace, but I don't have ADD and I don't need FLIPZ and shit to entertain me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lmao @ this ECW episode from 1 August 2006. Starts off with Tommy Dreamer in a tag match spanking Kelly Kelly then CM Punk has his debut match and Kurt Angle has his second to last match in WWE. Now it's main event time and Batista is taking on Big Show. Too bad it's impossible to concentrate on the match when the crowd are too busy burying the fuck out of it. :lol

Has a match ever been shitted on by the crowd as badly as Batista vs Show? Did WWE even go to the Hammerstein Ballroom after this?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels : ******

Yeah, this was awesome. Edge makes Orton look like the bitch of the group, Shawn's work is awesome, Orton lays down one of the best RKO's I've ever seen, and CENA bumps around like a fucking pinball machine. I don't see how the next match I'm going to watch (Angle-Cena-Show) will be able to even come close to this awesomeness but we'll see.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 10 Mania matches?

1 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart at 13
2 - The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels at 25
3 - Bret Hart vs Owen Hart at 10
4 - The Rock vs Stone Cold Steve Austin at 17
5 - The Undertaker vs Triple H at 28
6 - The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels at 26
7 - Randy Savage vs The Ultimate Warrior at 7
8 - Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit at 20 (though wouldn't make WWE's official's list for 100% sure)
9 - Ric Flair vs Randy Savage at 8
10 - Shawn Michaels vs Stone Cold Steve Austin at 14

Top 10 matches of '13 so far?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ATF said:


> Top 10 Mania matches?
> 
> 1 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart at 13
> 2 - The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels at 25
> ...


We're talking about the top ten mania matches before WM20. Otherwise, mine would have been drastically different.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Leaving for Mania in a few hours. Axxess and Hall of Fame tomorrow then the big show Sunday. :mark:

Btw, am I the only one that loved the Legacy vs. Batista, Triple H & Shane tag from Backlash '09?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> We're talking about the top ten mania matches before WM20. Otherwise, mine would have been drastically different.


If so, it would look like this:

1 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Bret Hart at 13
2 - Bret Hart vs Owen Hart at 10
3 - The Rock vs Stone Cold Steve Austin at 17
4 - The Ultimate Warrior vs Randy Savage at 7
5 - Ric Flair vs Randy Savage at 8
6 - Shawn Michaels vs Stone Cold Steve Austin at 14
7 - Roddy Piper vs Bret Hart at 8
8 - The Dudley Boyz vs Edge & Christian vs The Hardys at 16
9 - Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho at 19
10 - Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon at 10


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

ATF said:


> Top 10 matches of '13 so far?


Cena/Punk - Raw Feb 25th :mark:
Shield/Jericho,Sheamus&Ryback - Raw Feb 18th
Punk/Ryback TLC - Raw Jan 7th
Punk/Jericho - Raw Feb 4th
Elimination Chamber match
Orton/Cesaro - SD Jan 11th
Bryan/Jericho - Raw Feb 11th
Royal Rumble, solely for the fact that's the Rumble

Maybe Del Rio/Show LMS on Smackdown too but i didn't think much of it when i first saw it. That's still only 9, damn this year so far.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> Leaving for Mania in a few hours. Axxess and Hall of Fame tomorrow then the big show Sunday. :mark:
> 
> Btw, am I the only one that loved the Legacy vs. Batista, Triple H & Shane tag from Backlash '09?


No you're not. I'm a fan of that match too.

Enjoy WM weekend bro.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

What's the best Goldberg match in the WWE?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Jericho @ Bad Blood 03. 

Pretty decent match up and some nice work as always from Jericho


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If the Royal Rumble 04 doesn't count, then vs HBK on October 2003 for the WHC on Raw.

@Ever Wolf, I'll give you some you could throw in: ADR/Ziggler Main Event, Hell No/Car Stereo, Sheamus/Ziggler Main Event, Shield/Justice League, either of the Bryan/Ziggler matches, Orton/Swagger and Barrett/Miz/Jericho.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> What's the best Goldberg match in the WWE?


Probably vs Jericho at BB 2003, although im probably the only fucker who likes his match against The Rock :lol


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Probably vs Jericho at BB 2003, although im probably the only fucker who likes his match against The Rock :lol


 ATF rates the Mark Henry at RAW 2003 match at 3 stars I think so that's another good Goldberg match. I just watched the Backlash match now. ROCK is awesome in this match lol. His facial expressions and his heel tactics just make me laugh :lol . Goldberg was selling his arm injury pretty well. Match gets a **3/4 though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Royal Rumble 04 shouldn't count because Goldberg is in it for about 1 minute. Only person who should have it included in their "Best matches" list is Chris Benoit because he was in it the whole time and won the damn thing!

Favorite Goldberg match in WWE is the Backlash one with The ROCK.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane Armageddon 2003 is a trainwreck, but one FUN trainwreck. ****1/4*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Don't think I've posted a top Mania list since I've re-rated the majority of my matches. May as well post that and then pre-WM20

Top 10 WM Matches:

(*****)
1) Taker/HBK WM25
2) Austin/Bret WM13
(****3/4)
3) Bret/Owen WM10
(****1/2)
4) Austin/Rock WM17
5) Taker/HBK WM26
6) Taker/Batista WM23
7) HBK/Y2J WM19
(****1/4)
8) Austin/Rock WM19
9) HBK/Angle WM21
10) HBK/Benoit/HHH WM20


Pre-WM20 Top 10 Mania matches:

(*****)
1) Austin/Bret WM13
(****3/4)
2) Bret/Austin WM10
(****1/2)
3) Austin/Rock WM17
4) HBK/Y2J WM19
(****1/4)
5) Austin/Rock WM19
6) Savage/Steamboat WM3
(****)
7) Savage/Hogan WM5
8) Savage/Warrior WM7
9) Taker/Kane WM14
10) Taker/Flair WM18


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Another fan of Goldberg vs Rock here. ***1/2.

Triple H vs Big Show (New Years Revolution 2006) - ****
Triple H works Shows injured hand superbly, and it is sold equally brilliantly by Big Show. Quite a slow pace as you'd expect from a Big Show match but it works very well here. MOTN, which isn't really saying much given this show is pretty poor.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...ries-to-break-angle-s-neck_sport#.UV8OqpOG3oI

Stone Cold Steve Austin's 2001 heel run :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Why didn't people like Austin's heel run? Is it because he was still cheered by crowds?


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> What's the best Goldberg match in the WWE?


Fan of his matches against The Rock and Jericho, also thought the Summerslam Chamber was awesome as well.


----------



## JhnCna619 (Nov 2, 2004)

Parison Sapphire said:


> Fan of his matches against The Rock and Jericho, also thought the Summerslam Chamber was awesome as well.


I REALLY thought he was gonna win that match once they made it a Chamber match. Thought HHH would say that Goldberg didn't pin him and get a rematch at Unforgiven.


----------



## JDP3-AZ (Apr 5, 2013)

Hello everybody. I do not know if this is the right place to post this but here it goes. My cousin is hard up for some money and asked me to sell his collection of wrestling DVDs. I was going to post them on ebay but figured I would start here on the forums as this is the target audience. There are over 100 DVDs from the way back to the Ric Flair / Hogan days to current, some rare. I personally do not know much about wrestling, just trying to do my cousin a favor. Would anybody be interested in these or am I wasting everybody's time? I can post pictures and more info tonight after work if anybody wants me too. Thanks Guys!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

With WM 29 in the corner, I'll do something my friend did, and I'll compare some WrestleManias to movies that fit them  :

*WM 3 = Gone With The Wind:* Even though the talent was there, the first two Manias were very off. Essentially, it wasn't until 3 were the WrestleMania spirit started to kick-in. They had booked a perfect card for what it was worth, one that abranged every kind of demographic as far as "kid-friendly" wrestling was in 1987 WWF standards, alongside a lot of glamour, atmosphere and big time feel. Throw that with one of the most influential matches ever (Savage/Steamboat) and with a huge Main Event in score (Hogan/Andre), this could've only been a success. And a major, MAJOR one at that. It essentially put the WWF in the map. Gone With The Wind compares to that in that most movies prior that weren't really memorable, save for a few exceptions (Battleship Potemkin and Cimarron come to mind in my case). The novel was a gigantic hit for Margaret Mitchell, be it on showcasing the horrors of the Great Depression or on the excellent character development. So, with an all-star cast for that time, the consideration of it being one of the 1st major films released with color and sound, and essentially it being the adaptation of a huge novel hit, how couldn't it have commercially succeded is beyond me. That film put the concept of "modern-day movies" on the map, and it achieved a total buyrate (adjusted for inflation that is) of over THREE BILLION DOLLARS. Wow.

*WM 11 = Elektra*: It's a Mania that had all the potential in the world, especially considering the direction that the company was heading after Survivor Series '94 as far as booking was concerned. Unfortunely, due to many other issues, they made an excellent job of fucking up this one. With a horrible card, terrible atmosphere, multiple technical issues, etc. etc., WM 11 is the worst Mania ever PERIOD. Meanwhile, Elektra is one of the most popular superheroes in the world. Essentially, everyone loves her. And with Jennifer Garner in the role, this movie starring her can only go right? Not so fast. They essentially didn't even try. The action was lazy and BORING as hell, and considering this was a spin-off of Daredevil, which wasn't a good movie whatsoever (the theatrical version that is), it couldn't have been worse. Arguably Marvel's worst film ever, and I agree with that statement.

*WM 14 = The Matrix*: Just like the late 90's were essentially the boom of the cool, edgy and history making movies, WM 14 was the big explosion of the Attitude Era. The Matrix revolutionized every aspect it involved, from the special effects area, to the sci-fi genre in of itself, to the action movie as a cult, featuring a surprisingly good performance from Keanu Reeves. From the wall running, to the bullet time, to the forever famous "Matrix-dodge", to the red and blue choice... The Matrix was quite a popular hit. Whereas eminating from Boston, WM 14 revolutionized the WWF, as it was the start of the Austin/Attitude Era, by bringing a ton of good booking, great matches and a huge atmosphere. It also featured a shockingly great performance from a then-terribly injured Shawn Michaels (one of the GOAT without doubt).

*WM 21 = Se7en*: WM 21 featured a very "gimmicky" feel. The show was based around "WrestleMania Going Hollywood", featuring many parody trailers for some very famous films like Forrest Gump, Braveheart and Pulp Fiction. But my point here is that its comparable to David Fincher's masterpiece (and my favourite movie ever tbh) in that it had a lot of twists and turns that night in LA - from Shelton Benjamin running on ladders, to Hulk Hogan returning, to Randy Orton countering a Chokeslam into the RKO... so much twistful stuff. It became perhaps one of the best Manias ever and, more importantly, it launched the Main Event spotlight into many names - Cena, Batista, Edge and Orton more precisely. Se7en also featured a lot of twists and turns for a "gimmicky" movie. It was furious but methodical, with near unrivaled suspense. Became of its genre's greatest ever, and it also launched three of today's motion picture megastars into the official "star-spotlight": Brad Pitt, Kevin Spacey and Gwyneth Paltrow.

More to come 8)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

JDP3-AZ said:


> Hello everybody. I do not know if this is the right place to post this but here it goes. My cousin is hard up for some money and asked me to sell his collection of wrestling DVDs. I was going to post them on ebay but figured I would start here on the forums as this is the target audience. There are over 100 DVDs from the way back to the Ric Flair / Hogan days to current, some rare. I personally do not know much about wrestling, just trying to do my cousin a favor. Would anybody be interested in these or am I wasting everybody's time? I can post pictures and more info tonight after work if anybody wants me too. Thanks Guys!


This is a good place to ask this. More info would be appreciated, most importantly what PPV's they are and such. You could post a list on what he has.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Why didn't people like Austin's heel run? Is it because he was still cheered by crowds?


I loved Austin's heel run. One of my favourite runs ever and I believe a lot of people here consider his 2001 run with the WWF title one of the best of all time in terms of match quality. I certainly do.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> Btw, am I the only one that loved the Legacy vs. Batista, Triple H & Shane tag from Backlash '09?


Nope. Good match. Dig the two FIP segments throughout.



Oliver-94 said:


> What's the best Goldberg match in the WWE?


Easily vs Chris Jericho from Bad Blood 2003. Match is awesome.

----------

Finished Capitol Punishment right now. Not surprised the standout matches were Punker vs Mysterio & Bourne vs Swagger. Christian vs Orton was solid, but I disliked the concussion angle used during it. Could have been better without that nonsense thrown in. Nothing else is worth noting except for ALEX RILEY WINNING. :mark:

Survivor Series 2008 here I come. Oh man this show sucks outside of the brilliant Cena vs Jericho match. Maybe that opinion will change in a few hours.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Why didn't people like Austin's heel run? Is it because he was still cheered by crowds?


I honestly don't know why either. I as well think it has to do with the fact that people saw his heel turn as forced since fans really didn't want to boo Austin. The writers did everything they could to get the fans to hate Austin's character but the fans still cheered for Austin because, well, hes Austin. 

I, however, LOVED Austin's heel run. I didn't think his face run was stale but his heel run definitely added another layer to his character at the time. It made Austin's character much more vicious and willing to do whatever it took to hold onto the World Wrestling Federation title. It also helped get Kurt Angle over with his face character contrasting to Austin's heel character. Not to mention their superb Summerslam 2001 match.

It was an excellent run from Austin who was putting on MOTY candidates every week back in 2001. Seriously, I can't think of a bad match he had in 2001.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When has anyone slammed Austin's heel work in 2001? I've only seen nothing but praise. Well deserved too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Most of the hate for Austin's heel run comes from the so-called businessmen who base their entertainment on how well the merchandise sales and TV ratings were. It's the same stupid mentality for those who hate on the Ruthless Aggression era. "AUSTIN AND ROCK LEFT!!! RATINGS AND BUYRATES WERE DOWN!!! ATTENDANCE WAS POOR!".


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ruthless Aggression Era was the best era in wrestling that I watched live, imo.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^It was the one that got me interested in WRESTLING as opposed to just the entertainment stuff.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

My main image of Austin's heel run will always be when he beat up JR and Vince struts out yelling in his inimitable style '....OOOPEN HIM UUUP!'.

Either that or when he and Trips beat the living bejesus out of Lita.

GOOD GAWD, STOP THAT!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> My main image of Austin's heel run will always be when he beat up JR and Vince struts out yelling in his inimitable style '....OOOPEN HIM UUUP!'.
> 
> Either that or when he and Trips beat the living bejesus out of Lita.
> 
> GOOD GAWD, STOP THAT!


I'll always remember Debra's cookies. :side:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH and Austin beating the shit out of the Hardys and Lita was brutal and a brilliant heel moment. J.R awesome on commentary as always. In fact, 2001 might have been J.R's best year at the announcer's table, he had a lot of famous lines that I still remember. Most of them were linked to Austin's heel run, in fact. 

Favourite year of commentary? (Anyone mark for 2013? 8*D)


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I liked his heel turn, but Austin himself didn't love it that much. He's said a bunch of times, if he could go back he'd stun Vince in the ring after WM17 instead of shake his hand. Don't shoot the messenger.

Anyway, his backstage segments with Angle, Vince, and Debra made that heel turn.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ok I've just turned on Smackdown and I guess they're showing old WrestleMania matches because Orton vs Triple H from WrestleMania 25 is on. And all I'm thinking is why THIS match? :|


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Ok I've just turned on Smackdown and I guess they're showing old WrestleMania matches because Orton vs Triple H from WrestleMania 25 is on. And all I'm thinking is why THIS match? :|


Same as me, if any match from that Mania should be on it's obviously got to be Michaels and Taker.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Its just that some posters outside of this thread think Austin's heel turn flopped. I remember reading the "best wrestler in 2001" thread and many named Austin as the best worker but said the only negative thing about him was his heel character. The fact that some think his official heel turn at WM 17 wasn't good also makes me question why his turn wasn't liked by people. I personally can't say anything about it because I haven't watched his run yet but from what I have seen, it's very good. Austin played the role of a desparate man doing everything he can to beat ROCK was a great story. At the end, he had to side with the 'devil' to beat ROCK at mania. I've watched that segment where he beats up JR and again, Austin did very well playing the heel character by beating his old friend and listening to orders made his old enemy Vince.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Ruthless Aggression Era was the best era in wrestling that I watched live, imo.


TV was so great those days. It's why I'm generally so high on brand splits. Thanks to the 2002 - 2008 time-frame giving out so many quality moments/matches. Glad Finlay was around during that time of WWE. Certainly benefited.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Parison Sapphire said:


> Same as me, if any match from that Mania should be on it's obviously got to be Michaels and Taker.


Yep. the match is finally over now, wasn't really paying attention to it, but I couldn't help but notice just how BAD the crowd is in that match. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything about Orton vs Trips WM 25 is so bad. :sabin

It's why I think that Mania gets such a bad rap. Only b/c it ended on such a low note.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

They're showing Hogan vs Rock from WrestleMania 18 now. I don't mind this match.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Favourite year of commentary? (Anyone mark for 2013? 8*D)


Maybe would have to agree with you on 2001. JR and Heyman had such fantastic chemistry.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

J.R and Heyman are probably my favourite commentary duo ever. They played off each other so well, especially during the Alliance vs WWF run.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Ok I've just turned on Smackdown and I guess they're showing old WrestleMania matches because Orton vs Triple H from WrestleMania 25 is on. And all I'm thinking is why THIS match? :|


Haitch has had a word.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Rock kind of owns, tbhayley.

Good to know I'm going to fast forward though all of these matches tonight though. Only going to watch the two squash matches and that's that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Hogan vs Rock kind of owns, tbhayley.
> 
> Good to know I'm going to fast forward though all of these matches tonight though. Only going to watch the two squash matches and that's that.


****1/2* for Hogan/Rock. Hot crowd really helps, wasn't Hogan supposed to be heel but yet they're cheering him more than The Rock? :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked the crowd for Hogan/Rock but the match just didn't do much for me. Same with most of that Mania other than Flair/Taker.

Went through WM 22 a couple days ago with my roommates. They loved it. (Y)

Carlito/Masters vs Kane/Show - **1/2
MITB - ***1/2
Benoit/JBL - ***1/4
Edge/Foley - ****1/2
Boogeyman/Booker - DUD
Mickie/Trish - ***1/2
Taker/Henry - **1/2
HBK/Vince - ****1/4
Mysterio/Orton/Angle - ***
Divas match - DUD
Trips/Cena - ***3/4


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> HHH and Austin beating the shit out of the Hardys and Lita was brutal and a brilliant heel moment. J.R awesome on commentary as always. In fact, 2001 might have been J.R's best year at the announcer's table, he had a lot of famous lines that I still remember. Most of them were linked to Austin's heel run, in fact.
> 
> Favourite year of commentary? (Anyone mark for 2013? 8*D)


Pretty sure when he said "I was wrong when I said Austin sold his soul to the devil, cause how can you sell your soul to yourself?" he solidified himself as the GOAT commentator.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

That's the highest I think I've seen HBK/Vince rated, Brye. 

And I thought I was big fan of that match by having it at ****3/4*


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> That's the highest I think I've seen HBK/Vince rated, Brye.
> 
> And I thought I was big fan of that match by having it at ****3/4*


I've always been so fond of that match ever since I saw it live. Loved the story behind it, thought it was worked wonderfully (the kiss my ass stuff wasn't necessary but it works with Vince's insane character) and the beatdown on Vince really made sense for how much shit he put Michaels through the previous 4 months. Love it. 

Huge fan of the HBK/God vs Vince/Shane match as well.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh and Smackdown was just two matches this week the rest was supposed to be stuff from "Axxess" (Don't know what that is) They filmed the two matches at RAW and part of it is worth watching for SandGOAT and Cody


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just about every match from Vince vs Shawn in 2006 is AWESOME. WM, Backlash, DX tags. I'm one of the biggest supporters of that series, match wise.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Just about every match from Vince vs Shawn in 2006 is AWESOME. WM, Backlash, DX tags. I'm one of the biggest supporters of that series, match wise.


My favourite part being...












Jim Ross said:


> Bullshit!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I've always been so fond of that match ever since I saw it live. *Loved the story behind it, thought it was worked wonderfully (the kiss my ass stuff wasn't necessary but it works with Vince's insane character) and the beatdown on Vince really made sense for how much shit he put Michaels through the previous 4 months. Love it*.
> 
> Huge fan of the HBK/God vs Vince/Shane match as well.


Agreed here. I like how all out they went in the match, with Vince taking a real beating and giving one of his best matches of his career (I personally rank this above Hogan/Vince from WrestleMania 19). HBK's elbow drop from the top the ladder onto Vince who's positioned on a table with a trash can over his head being one of the best and most memorable WrestleMania spots for me. I loved at the end when Vince's sent off on a stretcher and he's sticks his middle finger up at the camera. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I absolutely hate the shit out of that Vince/HBK storyline. It made no sense and started over absolutely nothing. I would lie if I said that I didn't enjoy seeing Shawn destroy Vince the way he did, though.

Just finished watching Undertaker vs Booker T from Smackdown 4/8/2006. Good match while it lasts until Khali interferes. How come Taker laid the LMS challenge for SummerSlam, though? The match happened a week later instead and Taker wasn't even on the SS card.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JR was PISSED @ Backlash '06.

:mark:


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Top 10 non WM PPV's since 2000?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

After a bit of a break, I'm back on my EDGE match project. I wanted to watch Edge/Cena from Summerslam after Cody praised it as being one of the better Edge matches out there, but for some retarded reason it's not on either of my Edge DVD's so instead I'm watching Edge/Cena/RVD - WWE Title match from RAW. I'll check out their Summerslam match soon but I'll have to find it somewhere else, probably Dailymotion. I suppose it's fitting I'm watching this match actually, because it's before their Summerslam match.

Anyway onto the match:

*Edge vs John Cena vs RVD - WWE Title match - RAW*

RVD is both the WWE and ECW Champion here, which is pretty cool, but he's only defending the WWE Title. The match starts off with a brief stare down between the three wrestlers, with each of them having no love loss for each other with RVD not to long ago winning the WWE Title from Cena at ECW One Night Stand thanks to interference from Edge. The stare down doesn't last long before Cena starts to go after Edge and hammers him in the corner, then RVD takes some shots at Edge, then Cena continues to attack Edge, the commentators play up a possible alliance between RVD and Cena, but it's really just Cena and RVD trying to one up each other at the expense of Edge. Only about 2 minutes in and there's a commercial break, and when the commercial is over as usual the momentum of the match has changed, and in this instance, RVD is in control after performing a high kick on Cena, and Edge is layed out on the outside of the ring. RVD then places Cena on the turnbuckle to attempt a move, but Edge interrupts and shoves Cena off the top rope and then Edge performs a powerbomb to RVD off the rope into a pinning cover and he even puts his feet on the ropes, but the ref sees it and stops the pin. For the next few minutes there's a lot of good back forth action between the three wrestlers, momentum constantly switching, and the match at a fast pace which is what I really like in these triple threat matches. There's a nice unique spot that I liked when Cena has Edge up for a vertical suplex, but RVD jumps off the top rope and performs a cross body onto Edge taking out all three of them. RVD looks the strongest at this point in the match and Edge and Cena realize this so they perform a double team maneuver on RVD to slow him down as he's coming off the ropes. Then Edge and Cena immediately clothesline each other to knock each other down and to show there's no alliances. Cena then makes a comeback with this typical double shoulder block and spinning side slam on Edge, and tries to follow it up with a FU but Edge grabs the ropes and Cena FU's Edge to the outside. Lita then comes in the ring and tries to hit Cena with a steel chair, but Cena delivers an FU to her, then RVD performs a van daminator with the chair to Cena, and then attempts a five star frog splash but misses. Cena then follows up with performing a FU on RVD, but Edge comes in and hits Cena with the WWE Title belt and pins RVD for the win and Edge becomes a 2 time WWE Champion. A great heel ending and JR sells it so well like only JR does. A fun match to watch - ****1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No order:

SummerSlam 2001
SummerSlam 2002
Extreme Rules 2012
Fully Loaded 2000
No Mercy 2008
Money in the Bank 2010
Elimination Chamber 2011
Survivor Series 2002
Money in the Bank 2011
SummerSlam 2003

all off the top of my head. I know someone will list Backlash 2007. That's a good one too, but I've never thought about it as highly as some others.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MITB '11
Backlash '06
Backlash '07
No Mercy '08
Summerslam '02
Royal Rumble '07
Summerslam '11
Fully Loaded '00
Royal Rumble '01
No Way Out '08


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumble '07. Shoot, great mention.

I was on the fence of mentioning Backlash '06. Punk's moment of MITB '11 made me select it over it. I do <3 Backlash '06 though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Absolutely love the Benjamin/RVD match from that show. Plus a very fun main event triple threat and the McMahons/HBK/God match. And that really surprisingly good Masters/Carlito match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Backlash 2004 was a great PPV. Two very good matches in Orton/Foley and HHH/HBK/Benoit II - and Shelton/Flair is decent and Jericho/Christian/Trish is fun. Surprised that's it's not been mentioned.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Backlash 2004 was a great PPV. Two very good matches in Orton/Foley and HHH/HBK/Benoit II - and Shelton/Flair is decent and Jericho/Christian/Trish is fun. Surprised that's it's not been mentioned.


Bumped that off mine for NWO '08 but I agree it was a rather good PPV. Two amazing matches, one good and one rather fun, plus Lita/Victoria might have been good. Sounds like it could have.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Nostalgia said:


> Backlash 2004 was a great PPV. Two very good matches in Orton/Foley and HHH/HBK/Benoit II - and Shelton/Flair is decent and Jericho/Christian/Trish is fun. Surprised that's it's not been mentioned.


Just to piggy back off of this, Michaels/Triple H/Benoit II might be one of the most criminally forgotten matches in the last 10 years.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Unforgiven 2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle

The build to this has been phenomenal, and quite possible the best feud of 2001. This wasn't SSlam amazing but I doubt Austin could of carried Angle to that type of match again. I did love how they used a lot of revenge spots e.g. Angle throwing Austin off the ramp in revenge, and the Piledriver spot being revisited just to have both guys counter it with back drops on the concrete. I will admit the best spot is near the beginning when Austin hesitates to throw the kick before the Stunner because Kurt is ready to catch the foot. Austin desperation and paranoia was Awesome here, as he had to hang on to ever fully attack by Angle and the fact that he brought back the from front suplex spots on the announce table that he did against Benoit was great, it’s just a shame Angle no sold it and that those spots had nothing to do with the story. However this match told a tremendous story of how much hatred both guys have for each other so both men are focusing on the neck of the other. This is smart considering both of their previous broken necks. It was kind of weird seeing Angle was more of the aggressor and really taking it to Austin but Austin was really selling the beating he was getting from Angle here, made Angle’s offense look LEGIT. The ending was pretty much a perfect way to set up a rematch as Austin finally goes for the Stunner, but Kurt grabs his foot and turns him over into the Ankle lock for the submission, but Austin's hand was under the ropes, which would lead to a rematch. Angle's family and the WWF superstars all come out to celebrate with Kurt. There is no doubt in my mind that if 9/11 didn’t happen Austin would have retained the title. (As he won it back just a few weeks later on Raw when Regal screwed Angle out of the title) Don’t get me wrong though; there was nothing wrong with this patriotic ending for United States fans and for the hometown boy. ***3/4


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I'll do a top 5 off the top off my head...

1) Extreme Rules 2012 (Bryan/Sheamus - ****1/4, Lesnar/Cena - ****3/4, Punk/Jericho - ****)
2) Money In The Bank 2011 (Punk/Cena - *****, Orton/Christian - ****, SD MITB - ****1/4)
3) Summerslam 2002 (HBK/HHH - ****, Rock/Brock - ****, Mysterio/Angle - ****)
4) Survivor Series 2002 (Raw Elimination Chamber - ****, Tag Match - ****1/4)
5) Royal Rumble 2007 (Umaga/Cena - ****, Royal Rumble Match - ****)

Thirteen **** and above matches from 5 events. And the majority of everything else in these shows is fun also!

Edit - Thought I'd do a bottom 5 off the top off my head also because i'm bored...

1) December to Dismember 2006
2) Unforgiven 2007
3) Summerslam 2007
4) Unforgiven 2003
5) Great American Bash 2004


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think Angle winning the title at Unforgiven 2001 had as much to do with 911 as it was Kurt's hometown. I could be wrong though. 

Something I was wondering today was why Backlund won the title from Bret in 94? I watched the Bret/Backlund I Quit match the other day and enjoyed it. First time I have watched it in ages. But why did Backlund win the title only to drop it a few days later to Nash at a fucking house show in what was it 8 seconds? Did Bret not want to drop the title to Nash. That could have been the shining moment for Owen to win the title. IDK that whole match was fun and Owen was such a great prick heel and the promo Backlund cut after was priceless but I always wondered WTF Backlund won the title for. Anyone know? 

I believe I read Foley won the title at Summerslam 99 in the triple threat with Austin and HHH because Austin didnt want to drop the title to Trips. I remember watching that PPV with some friends are marking out when Foley won. My buddy was lucky enough to be at RAW the next night when Trips won his first title. 

Also, wtf did Kane win the title for at King of the Ring 98? He had the title for like 21 hours and it made no sense for him just to drop it right back the next night on RAW. I think this title change makes the least sense of any in WWF/E history. Seriously it wasnt even a full day!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Absolutely love the Benjamin/RVD match from that show. Plus a very fun main event triple threat and the McMahons/HBK/God match. And that really surprisingly good Masters/Carlito match.


Umaga vs Flair too :mark:

only less than desirable match was Kane vs Show. Trish vs Mickie was en route to being good before the injury. So no harm, no foul on their part.

Is Benoit vs Triple H vs Michaels II forgotten? It's five stars in my book. Yeah, certainly I'm not one of those who forget it, if so.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

People are always talking about their Wrestlemania match, but never the Backlash one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If anything, that's about the easiest segway to their rematch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/HHH/HBK II is as good as their WM match. Only thing it's missing is the "BIG TIME" feel of WM with WM being in Madison Square Garden and the awesome ending which is almost matched by Backlash, only missing the beauty of Eddie coming down to celebrate with his best friend.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rewatched *Lesnar vs. Triple H *from Summerslam to prep myself for Wrestlemania. Man, I really wanted to enjoy it more but it's just not there. The psychology is great, armwork on Hunter is fine and it was really cool for Lesnar's stomach problems to come into play, but the match is just so tedious. Kimura attempt, knees to the gut, punches, repeat. Didn't help the crowd was totally dead either. Last few minutes are exciting though, despite the no sell on the pedigree. Decent but nothing more for me. *****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm going to do the same. If not tonight, tomorrow for sure. Hell, maybe even right before WM itself. It will be viewed. I know that much.

Unsure at which show to do a review on. If anyone cares to pick, do so: Survivor Series 2008 or Capitol Punishment. I'll kick it over quickly...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My vote goes to Survivor Series. Never seen it, but own Cena vs. Jericho. Everyone already knows what Capitol Punishment is all about, the forgotten Punk/Mysterio match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Survivor Series 2008​*

1) *Elimination Match*
Shawn Michaels, Rey Mysterio, Cryme Tyme _(Shad Gaspard & JTG)_, & Great Khali vs John Bradshaw Layfield, Kane, John Morrison, Mike Mizanin, & Montel Vontavious Porter ~ ****1/2*


2) *Elimination Match*
Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, Candice Michelle, Kelly Kelly, & Jillian Hall vs Maryse Ouellet, Natalya Neidhart, Victoria, Michelle McCool, & Maria Kanellis ~ *DUD*


3) *Casket Match*
The Undertaker vs Big Show ~ ***


4) *Elimination Match*
Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes, William Regal, Mark Henry, & Shelton Benjamin vs Batista, CM Punk, Matt Hardy, Kofi Kingston, & R-Truth ~ *****


5) *WWE Championship *- *Triple Threat Match*
Triple H(c) vs Vladimir Koslov vs Edge ~ *DUD*


6)* World Heavyweight Championship*
Chris Jericho(c) vs John Cena ~ *****1/4*​

~ Opener is a lot stronger than I remembered. Always liked it, but man it is a lot of fun to watch. Not to mention quite good as a whole. Only drawback was Kane got dealt a bad hand in getting punked out so quickly. That's purely a personal gripe. It gave time to have workers the likes of Shad, Morrison, & Miz all shine at a time when all were on the rise. _(yeah, Cryme Tyme was entering their best period as a team from 2008 - 2009)_ One of the better overall Survivor Series Elimination matches over the last few years. Without a doubt. Perfect way to open this show.

~ Divas match was a train-wreck. Maryse got lots of exposure though. So it wasn't a TOTAL bust. _(even though it actually is_ 8*D)

~ Casket was underwhelming city. In the whole of the the wonderful series Undertaker & Show gave us, this blemish is easily forgotten. With good reason. The finish is the flattest of the flat.

~ Another good elimination match. Not quite as strong as the first with the men, but on par with being good all on its own. The Batista superman comeback in the end is meh, but luckily it was stopped dead in its tracks thanks to the tactics of the group soon to be known by Legacy. Orton's slither into the ring to hit the RKO in the finish is bossy as hell. God damn he was the man. Mark Henry roughs up Matt Hardy during this too for a sequence. It was stellar. :mark:

~ :lmao @ the WWE Championship. Fans were bored legit one minute in. The pain didn't end till Vickie came out to announce Edge would be taking the "injured" Jeff Hardy's spot. Mayhem ensues for the final minute. When the match is over it almost feels like a terrible match didn't even take place. So, another positive to NEARLY mask a glaring negative. Match is soooooooo poor though. Yikes.

~ Main event is nothing short of brilliance. It is everything I love about this sport. Inspiring competition. Excellent storytelling. Wonderful use of psychology. Awe, I can nearly talk about this match for days. Cena was fabulous in his FIP role with his injury coming into play - including being shy to head to the top rope as a great callback to how he got injured in the first place. Meanwhile Jericho was in his full ring general mode. A tremendous heel performance by him. Targeting the neck area on every single blow. Busting out the Double Arm DDT is :mark: Walls of Jericho with the knee purposely on the neck...holy crap. I love it. Everything about this match is gold. It makes the PPV worth seeing when it is all said and done. :clap


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> ~ Divas match was a train-wreck. Maryse got lots of exposure though. So it wasn't a TOTAL bust. _(even though it actually is_ 8*D)


I GET THAT JOKE! :lol

I'm gonna have to see that main event. Sounds real bossy. Go ahead and throw out that Capitol Punishment review if you're up for it. Interested to see if you think Dolph/Kofi is their best encounter... since they have like 42.  Seriously though, I thought it was a quality opener.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THEY HAVE TWENTY FOUR SINGLES MATCHES. DA FUCK.

Yeah, might as well throw that shit out there Cody, interested fo sho in TRUTH-CENA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Capitol Punishment​*

1) *WWE United States Championship*
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Dolph Ziggler ~ ***


2) Mike Mizanin vs Alex Riley ~ ***1/4*


3) Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio ~ *1/2**


4) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Wade Barrett(c) vs Ezekial Jackson ~ *DUD*


5) CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio ~ ****3/4*


6) *World Heavyweight Championship*
Randy Orton(c) vs Christian ~ ***3/4*


7) Evan Bourne vs Jack Swagger ~ *****


8) *WWE Championship*
John Cena(c) vs R-Truth ~ *1/2**​

~ Funny now that there is some pressure on this match to have a review it kind of negates my simple analysis of it: Same ol shit. I can't take much of the matches between these guys b/c it is ALWAYS the same exact match. End result leaves me with a huge smile, but I can't be pestered to give a damn about the dull action from bell to bell. These guys need to never work vs each other ever again. idc if the only action they see nowadays is Dolph squashing Kofi. It's played out on Orton vs Barrett levels.

~ While I spent a bit of yesterday defending Miz on how he's actually had good matches in his career, this wasn't one of his better ones. Not "bad", but terribly decent. Riley's comeback helped me care for this a bit more. I'm a Riley mark, so I'll admit it. Miz's control sequence in this reached boring levels at times. All in all, not too bad though.

~ A feud advancer. Or well, better yet a way to give Del Rio a win till MITB & a way to begin the Henry vs Show feud. That's all it was. I was fine with it. Del Rio vs Show matches never work out too well in my opinion, so I was glad this was kept short. _(which I can't understand at all b/c both workrs are good; well Show is GREAT tbhayley.)_

~ Fux you Ezekial Jackson. You sack of crap. It was the greatest day on Earth when Cody "the Great" Rhodes dethroned you less than two months after you won the Intercontinental Championship. Speaking of, why did WWE not put Dashingly Demented Rhodes vs Danielson on this show? Terrible.

~ Punk vs Mysterio - need you say more? These men can do no wrong. Especially when vs each other. Great match. Punk takes the approach of working over Mysterio's back/mid-section for a good portion of the match and Mysterio plays his normal comeback kid role to perfection. Watch this. Punker winning clean at this time was a much needed move too. It all set huge things into motion following this PPV.

~ World Championship was solid. Had flashes of what made their Over The Limit match so brilliant: the constant fast paced, counter friendly struggle between both. Only this match suffered from a concussion angle that I wasn't feeling. Shame. Orton was on point in this match outside of his terrible clotheslines & lou thesz press _(thank science he stopped using it.)_ Orton using the elevated neckbreaker in this = 

~ Bourne vs Swagger is what you'd expect for 7 minutes with those two, pretty darn awesome. Bourne is spectacular. Swagger is quality & takes about three stiff shots directly to the face per usual. Man is insane to take the shots to the grill like he does. Good match. Ironic how the "filler/bonus" match has every other match outside of Punker/Mysterio trumped in quality.

~ Well, it is R-Truth after all. Who expected this to be good? To his credit, he did try. I'll give him that. Not to mention the man is just SOOOO well suited to be a heel. From his offense to his character to his persona. He's much, much better as a heel. Too bad he screwed it up only to return as a god awful face again come latter 2011. Who returns from a fault and gets pushed? I guess it's b/c he lost the heel turn - that was his punishment I suppose. Oh yeah, John Cena was in this match too. That's kind of how things were in this match. No lie.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton's entire face comeback sequence needs to go DIE ASAP, especially those clotheslines that look like they're being thrown by a 7 year old girl scout. To be fair though, his drop off in quality isn't because he's a face but rather "THE VIPER" character in general is dull and boring as shit. He's sick and he convulses before hitting his finisher, OMG ZO INTERESTINGZ.

CM FUCKING PUNK vs Rey Mysterio really is something else though, awesome match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not going to be roped into an Orton discussion that comes around like a vicious circle in this thread, but his problem these days is he's become formulaic. Who knows the reason for it. It's here though.

Punker vs Mysterio. Speaks for itself. Can sell tickets to many a fan simply on paper.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shit, knew you'd be low on the opener but one star!? I went *** 1/4. haha. Punk/Rey is fantastic and I tend to forget it happens sometimes tbh due to their 2010 series. Their best match imo (****). Remember really liking Orton/Christian too, even with the feud advance ending (*** 1/2). Completely blanking on why Del Rio/Show was there. 

Let's hope Big E. Langston turns out better than Zeke did... although it's doubtful.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BUT PUNK CNT DWAW unk3.

Bitches gonna bitch I suppose, the man sells more merchandise to the male demographic than any other (which means more than ratings in this era but I'm not being roped into that discussion again either as it's stupid and something a bunch of Roid-Tards would argue over) guy in the company.

CENA VS LASHLEY UP NEXT. THOUGHTS?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fuck Cena vs. Lashley, post the damn Dungeon Collection review Evan!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Shit, knew you'd be low on the opener but one star!? I went *** 1/4. haha. Punk/Rey is fantastic and I tend to forget it happens sometimes tbh due to their 2010 series. Their best match imo (****). Remember really liking Orton/Christian too, even with the feud advance ending (*** 1/2). Completely blanking on why Del Rio/Show was there.
> 
> Let's hope Big E. Langston turns out better than Zeke did... although it's doubtful.


It's the same exact match though. I can't go around putting over guys for doing exactly the same type deal from 2010 all over again in 2011 just b/c they moved to a different show. :side:

Think my favorite Punk vs Mysterio match on PPV would be the Hair vs Pledge match from Over The Limit 2010. Which is a surprise considering it was briefly halted via the presence of blood. It didn't hinder it in the slightest. Awesome match with an awesome mix of drama thrown in via the stip.

No way. Langston is the pits. Jackson at least had a few good matches in his career vs Christian. He'll always have that over Langston; who can't even work a match properly.

Show vs Del Rio happened b/c Del Rio hit Show with his car the night after Over The Limit 2011. Yeah, it was utterly horrible and is best to be forgotten.



KingOfKings said:


> CENA VS LASHLEY UP NEXT. THOUGHTS?


Great match. Fans are very hot for the action and react to every move. It ended up being a match that was much more electric than I figured. Probably b/c I gave zero cares for Lashley, but apparently he was over. Who knew. A very well done, explosion face vs face collision. ******


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

A lot of people seem to dislike Taker vs Triple H Wrestlemania 27

WHY CANT YOU LOVE IT FOR WHAT IT IS DAMMIT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c trying too hard is a turn off. Undertaker or not, it applies.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It's the same exact match though. I can't go around putting over guys for doing exactly the same type deal from 2010 all over again in 2011 just b/c they moved to a different show. :side:
> 
> Think my favorite Punk vs Mysterio match on PPV would be the Hair vs Pledge match from Over The Limit 2010. Which is a surprise considering it was briefly halted via the presence of blood. It didn't hinder it in the slightest. Awesome match with an awesome mix of drama thrown in via the stip.
> 
> ...


Understandable reasoning.

Have that one at *** 3/4 respectively. Has to be their most important & most popular match of course.

I keep forgetting Langston is on NXT so people have actually seen him work in matches before.  All I know is he has some big ass titties, a terrible haircut, and a god awful finisher.

Yep, still doesn't ring any bells. Which I guess is a good thing.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Lashley vs Cena was Lashley's best singles match.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> b/c trying too hard is a turn off. Undertaker or not, it applies.


disagree. the fact they booked it as a finisher-fest but with psychology is why I find it so appealing


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret "Hitman" Hart : The Dungeon Collection (Disc One)

British Commonwealth Jr. Heavyweight Title - 2 out of 3 Falls
Bret Hart (c) vs. Dynamite Kid - *N/R (Joined in Progress)*
Stampede Wrestling December 1978

Bret Hart vs. Buzz Sawyer - *** 1/2*
Georgia Championship Wrestling December 1979

North American Heavyweight Title
Leo Burke (c) vs. Bret Hart –* N/R (Joined in Progress)*
Stampede Wrestling January 1983

Bret Hart vs. Dynamite Kid - *** 3/4*
Capital Centre 9/14/1985

WWF Tag Team Championship
The Hart Foundation (c) vs. The Islanders - ***** 
Philly Spectrum 3/14/1987

Bret Hart vs. Andre The Giant - ** 3/4*
Milan, Italy 4/10/1989

Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect - **** 1/2*
Maple Leaf Gardens 4/23/1989

OH MY GOD. I really can't stand it when the WWE puts clipped matches / matches joined in progress on their sets, especially on a set like this which NEEDS as many full matches as possible, GOD DAMN. The first Dynamite Kid match starts us off when the match is SEVENTEEN FUCKING MINUTES IN, what the fuck is that shit? It looked like a damn good match too as Dynamite was as stiff as stiff can be here to a young Bret.

The GCW match against Buzz Sawyer was a nice sub 10 minute long contest with some great chain wrestling from both men. You could really tell around this time that Bret was working a different style than most guys as his past was pretty damn fast, decent for what it was and again ; wonderful to see Bret working in a different company than the WWE.

STAMPEDE WRESTLING... CANADA FUCK YEAH. Oh, it's clipped. Fantastic.

Now here we start getting into the good stuff as we get Dynamite and Bret in a WWF setting in the mid 80s here, and they just go out there and do a ton of things pacing wise that we wouldn't see in the company for quite some time. Bret even comes out and says it himself that it's way ahead of it's time, and I'm certainly inclined to agree with him here. Does Dynamite always work this stiff one on one? Some selling issues here and there but overall a really good contest.

The Islanders match is where things start getting great. Bret bumps around like a madman for the Islanders while the Anvil was slamming people and laying his role as the dominant force of the team excellently. Then of course we had fucking HAKU of all people beating the shit out of Bret which was awesome on new levels that haven't even been invented yet, the first great match based on more than novelty value on the set.

The Andre match is what it is ; Bret bumping around for Andre's offense and making the old fucker look really surprisingly good at that stage in his career when he should have been wrestling non stop duds due to physical disabilities. Hats off to Bret here for a hell of a performance (credit to YEAH for pointing out that the WWE ripped this match off of Youtube... The fuck WWE :lol) getting a somewhat sub par match out of Andre.

Bret vs Mr. Perfect, need I say more? Seriously, it speaks for itself. These guys went out there and tore shit up for 1989, with Perfect not being in the company for long at this point and Bret trying to carve out a spot for himself in the singles scene as well. The best match on the first disc by a good margin and should be checked out by any fan of either guy for sure.

This first disc is strange ; even though there isn't a classic on the disc and there's really only two "good to great" matches, if you're a fan of Bret this is right up your alley with the interviews being great and the matches being pretty damn rare (the fucking point of the set anyways). Not the best foot forward for this one, but don't worry ; shit's about to get REAL.

*DISC ONE SCORE : 6/10*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Understandable reasoning.
> 
> Have that one at *** 3/4 respectively. Has to be their most important & most popular match of course.
> 
> ...


Same here. I gots to watch their Feb 2010 match again. I almost recall it being their best match overall. Could be wrong.

:lmao (Y)

Oh yeah. It isn't worth remembering.

Watched this bad boy today too:

*SummerSlam 2011*

Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett ~ ****3/4*​
These guys laid into each other in such a manly fashion. You can't help but love it. Danielson is Danielson. It was next to nothing new to see him in a quality match. Barrett on the other hand though has a regularly polarized opinion on this board. I, personally, have always liked the guy. So, I'm plenty glad he got to have another match on a PPV to showcase that he actually is capable of pumping out really good matches. Especially when the opponent suits his style. Look to Sheamus for this quality too. Cena can be a slugger himself, so I guess that's why they work well together themselves. Although their first match had a major story behind it and that no doubt added to the HIAC 2010 contest. Plain and simple: this match owns. Shame on the fans for being fairly terrible heading into it. Didn't hinder things, however. Although it would have been nice to hear them react during the bulk of it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Taker/Trips WM 27 is the bomb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Redead said:


> disagree. the fact they booked it as a finisher-fest but with psychology is why I find it so appealing


Bored me from start to finish. I'll stick with Rhodes vs Mysterio when it comes to loving a match from WrestleMania 27.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Dammit, where's cal? is he still alive or did he hang himself yet?

he'll back me up on this


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Same here. I gots to watch their Feb 2010 match again. I almost recall it being their best match overall. Could be wrong.
> 
> :lmao (Y)
> 
> ...


This is the match that gave me hope for Barrett's ring work.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

EVAN, my man finally comin through in the clutch. Good stuff, I was just a 1/4* higher on basically everything.  REALLY really tempted to give the Mr. Perfect match the full 4 but I just couldn;t because of the finish. Excellent match though. There's no chance in hell you'll enjoy the Twin Towers match as much as I did, oh how I love structure and isolation...

They just need to do Danielson vs. anyone on the roster at every PPV. He'll give you a quality match with anybody.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Redead said:


> Dammit, where's cal? is he still alive or did he hang himself yet?
> 
> he'll back me up on this


We're never sure these days.

Cal is an Undertaker mark. It's the only reason why he's a lock for you. :hmm: 

Well, so am I. But, I'm the exception to the rule it seems.



MoveMent said:


> This is the match that gave me hope for Barrett's ring work.


(Y)


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I am a student of KingCal

Also Austin101 but I dont like talking about that part as much :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You had me by the balls when you called me by my real name (NO ****) .

Gonna post the rest of that ish tomorrow, way easier to write a review when you're not trying to make it LONG AND WINDED like I've done so many times in the past. Seriously, I wrote a 5000 word review of the HHH-HBK series and why it's so up and down, and I felt like going crazy after I wrote it because it was SO FUCKING LONG. JESUS.

I joined on here for the sole reason of contributing to this thread. NO JOKE :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin101. He will rise again. _(lets hope not.)_

what was the date for the Twin Towers match that is on Bret's DVD, KOK & Corey?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/700-matches-at-four-stars-or-over-by-brett-mix/18259/

Scroll down that and try to find the most ridiculous ratings you can possibly muster up :lol.

& 4/10/89 Cody. IT'S IMPRESSIVE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Austin101. He will rise again. _(lets hope not.)_
> 
> what was the date for the Twin Towers match that is on Bret's DVD, KOK & Corey?


Hart Foundation vs. The Twin Towers
_Duluth__, Minnesota__ • May 17, 1989

_It's pretty excellent in my books. *** 3/4

EDIT: I believe 4/10 is the Andre date.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Bret Hart: The Dungeon Collection - Disc 2
> 
> The Hart Foundation vs. The Twin Towers - *** 3/4
> Duluth, MN 4/10/1989​


Ripped the date and template of my review straight from yours .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So...it's in May then? Either way, I need to see it. Tag team matches in WWF circa 80's = :mark:

just watched half of WrestleMania V yesterday, so I'm riding the train of awesome Twin Towers matches too. Yeah that match vs Rockers is awesome to me, big deal. Want to fight about it? :hayley3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SON OF A BITCH! Looks like I'm the fucker upper here. My apologies go out to you and your family. Whatever the date is, more people need to watch and appreciate.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Downloaded all of Punk's BITW set today. Going to watch the doc later tonight. My level of excitement can't be contained. Ashamed it has taken me this long to view it. Let alone not even owning a psychical copy of it. S'ok. All is going to nearly be complete soon.

Punker vs Regal is one of the matches. YES.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Rockers-Towers match IS indeed one of the best sub 10 minute tags I've ever seen in my life.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

you should see Rockers vs Powers of Pain from MSG that WOOLCOCK pimped out to me. It's even better:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x84zw1_powers-of-pain-vs-the-rockers_sport#.UV-1e5OR98E


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Redead said:


> A lot of people seem to dislike Taker vs Triple H Wrestlemania 27
> 
> WHY CANT YOU LOVE IT FOR WHAT IT IS DAMMIT


I enjoyed it. Despite it being a finisher fest, I found it very entertaining. It's the right way to do a finisher fest, unlike that god awful Trips/HBK HIAC. I can't sit through that match anymore.

Edit: CODY, Punk doc is amazing.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thoughts on Undertaker-Vince McMahon at Survivor Series 2003?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I bought the Punk set a few months ago and watched the documentary right away. It was awesome and one of the best in my opinion. I still haven't watched the matches though. PPV ratings have sidetracked me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only half way into the Punk doc and it's the greatest wrestling doc I've ever seen. Bar none.

The indie clips were unbelievable. Hearing guys like Mike Quackenbush & Dave Prazak on commentary behind the clips were on another level. Coupled with all of the ROH clips, wow. It's making me love wrestling more than I already do. It's feeding the fire of how I want to have the experience Punk has. If only on an indie wrestling scale. It just isn't right that I'm not in the biz. Trailing off here, but that's what the doc has stirred up inside of me so far. This is brilliant.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/700-matches-at-four-stars-or-over-by-brett-mix/18259/
> 
> Scroll down that and try to find the most ridiculous ratings you can possibly muster up :lol


Bret Hart v Jean-Pierre Lafitte being two hundred spots ahead of the best Lawler v Dundee is a bit of a red flag.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

does that list include any Puro matches? if it does, I bet Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid is probably the highest ranked match from Japan. _(that one Meltzer creamed for and gave five stars)_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

nup, only US (and some Canada). So yeah, Lawler v Dundee 12/30/85 is like the 450th best US match ever.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

you know what i like

fun entertaining wrestling

thats the best kind


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fun entertaining wrestling?






this seems fitting


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

More than fitting, actually.

Speaking of fun, it's time to go through the WHC matches of 2010 and 2011 :mark:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

NVM.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Got these in the post from Silvervision the other day.

Extreme Rules 2012
Undertaker - 20-0 at Wretlemania
50 Greatest Finishers
Brock Lesner - Here Comes the Pain
Rey Mysterio - The Life of a Masked man
The Greatest Highflyers
Action(a collection of tv matches from 2001)
Hardcore(a collection of hardcore title matches)

All for £34!!!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

That list is an absolute blast.

The same match:
405) Triple H vs John Cena WWE Raw October 2009 ****
636) Triple H vs John Cena Oct 2009 Raw ****

Man, 406-635 must be a CLOSE call. Or, as he says:


> I should mention Ryan that my matches at four stars, are not above the other they are all pretty equal.


So once you get to **** everything is adequately equal and the list becomes null and void?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

How can ANYONE hate Sheamus? 

Just watched a lot of his matches from 2012 Raw's and SD's. Guy legit has at least a ** match every fucking week. He's the definition of a workhorse. 

Punk/Sheamus feud this year please.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> How can ANYONE hate Sheamus?
> 
> Just watched a lot of his matches from 2012 Raw's and SD's. Guy legit has at least a ** match every fucking week. He's the definition of a workhorse.
> 
> Punk/Sheamus feud this year please.


He's my favorite currently, followed by Bryan, Cena, Orton and Punk. The work he's produced from 2012 has been absolutely sensational.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> How can ANYONE hate Sheamus?
> 
> Just watched a lot of his matches from 2012 Raw's and SD's. Guy legit has at least a ** match every fucking week. He's the definition of a workhorse.


Agree. Sheamus is just so awesome, he doesn't deserve all the hate he gets. Then again, most "smarks" are not the brightest bunch and wouldn't recognize talent if it punched them in the face.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> He's my favorite currently, followed by Bryan, Cena, Orton and Punk. The work he's produced from 2012 has been absolutely sensational.


Removing Punk, that's exactly my list of favorites from the current roster. Not the same order, but the same four.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Sheamus could use a less cheesy character. I would also love it if he stopped yelling fella before attempting a brogue kick. In the ring though he is very good.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Removing Punk, that's exactly my list of favorites from the current roster. Not the same order, but the same four.


The overrating of Punk by the nitwits outside this thread has definitely made me drop him a couple spots. On the contrary, Sheamus is freakin awesome but i just hope they turn him into a more determined, motivated face rather than the kiddie pandering joke of a character we see now.

Speaking of Sheamus, What's his GOAT match? I'm thinking Big Show HIAC, Morrison or Ziggler.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Love Sheamus in the ring, legit workhorse who will always give you a solid match. His face character isn't great at the moment but the guy has everything needed to be the number 1 guy in the company.

Want to see Sheamus vs heel Orton all Summer, will hopefully be awesome


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

To be fair, most babyface characters WWE churns out at the moment are pretty bad. Sheamus has worked really hard though and is performing well. Hoping for a good performance from him in the 6-man tag match at 'Mania. In fact, that's definitely one of the matches I'm most looking forward too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Eh, the WWE is full of cheese at the moment so Sheamus doesn't really annoy me that much.

You got Cena, Bryan (sadly), Cesaro yodelling , Ryback acting like a twot. So yeah Sheamus isn't that cheesy to me recently. And he is a true boss inside the ring.

GOAT Sheamus match; Bryan ER 12 OR Show HIAC.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> How can ANYONE hate Sheamus?
> 
> Just watched a lot of his matches from 2012 Raw's and SD's. Guy legit has at least a ** match every fucking week. He's the definition of a workhorse.
> 
> Punk/Sheamus feud this year please.


Because for most people it's not just about ring work. Some don't like Sheamus for his character which is nothing but a generic super face, some don't like his average mic work and the fact he's always pushed.

Personally I don't really mind him.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Sheamus has the opportunity to have a superb year if booked right. He could have feuds against both Punk and Cena (which would surely be awesome). Obviously there's rumours of an Orton heel turn so they could have an angle together too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best Sheamus match is definitely Extreme Rules with Daniel Bryan last year. Also fan of HIAC with Orton as well as Big Show. About to refresh my memories of the TLC with Morrison now.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

fpalm at me, for forgetting his Bryan match at ER 2012.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena could have a 2007 esque year if given the right opponents to work with. He's already worked that classic Shield tag and the GOAT RAW match in Cena-Punk, not to mention his stellar Royal Rumble win (the match wasn't fantastic but I felt Cena did I really good job).

If he gets a good match out of The Roid it could be his "Khali moment" like 2007, then you have matches like a potential one with Sheamus which just SCREAMS Cena-Lashley (except WAY better if face vs face), not to mention if he gets a potential feud with DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN of all people. I think that if Cena can get a TWO STAR match out of The Roid this Sunday that he's en route to perhaps being the WOTY, especially if Punk is taking time off.

OH, and Sheamus's best matches would be 2/3 Falls vs D-Bry, Ladder vs Morrison, and HIAC vs Big Show. The ladder match in particular is one of the more "smart" worked ladder matches I've ever seen with an emphasis based more on storytelling rather than spots to sell the match. It's no doubt Sheamus' best work as a heel as him and Morrison have this strange chemistry that some guys just HAVE.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

To be fair, Sheamus is a far superior worker to Lashley. So i'm honestly expecting a ****1/4 - ****3/4 match.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

> http://www.wwe.com/inside/bracketology/mania-madness
> 
> WWE.com held a fan-voting tournament to determine the best WWE Championship (so WHC exempted) match at Mania. The brackets were:
> 
> ...


PUNK/Jericho WM 28 = Best WWE championship match in WM history according to TEH MARKZ!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> PUNK/Jericho WM 28 = Best WWE championship match in WM history according to TEH MARKZ!


Say whaaaat?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lol Gotta love the 'universe'.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not my personal #1, but I have no problem with somebody putting that excellent match at their own number one spot.

I'm more sketched out by the fact that Hogan Andre, HBK/Hart, and Austin/Rock I were in the quarterfinals but HHH/Cena, Savage/Flair, and Angle/Lesnar weren't. If Savage/Flair never made the quarterfinals than the list is pure FUCKERY and shouldn't be taken seriously, so I won't take it seriously :lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I agree, loved that match, much better than the overrated Austin/Rock WM17 match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I could have respected that list if Austin/ROCK II won it, but nah, it's a complete joke.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I agree Ever Wolf. Sheamus is awesome to watch. He can drag great matches out of anyone with Tensai and Wade Barrett being an example. Dude is a talented workhorse. 

I don't mind his character that much either. 


The Cynical Miracle said:


> PUNK/Jericho WM 28 = Best WWE championship match in WM history according to TEH MARKZ!


LOLWWE.COMPOLLS


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus is a great in-ring performer, but outside of that he's yet to do anything for me. Certainly wouldn't be one of my favorites in the biz right now, though if wrestling ability is your top priority, I can understand putting him towards the top.

On that list/tourney, great to see Punk/Jericho WM28 to get the recognition it deserves. Awesome match. Wouldn't put it as my number 1 though, especially over Rock/Austin II, but besides that it's a great choice for the top spot.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Out of those choices Rock/Austin II was the clear winner.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There isn't a better brawler in the WWE than Sheamus. I wasn't a big fan of his matches when he was a heel, but as a face he just works so well with everyone. I'm not sure why that is so because I can never buy him as a face in peril, but he just seems so motivated as a face. On top of that, he actually puts in an equal amount of offense against his opponent in matches, unlike most faces whose offense mainly comes in the finishing stretch. Easy winner for workhorse of the year in 2012.






The Orton/Sheamus match on this Smackdown does not get the respect that it deserves. Arguably their best singles match together.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Hogan's two Undisputed Title PPV main events are two of the worst main events I have ever seen.

22:05 Hogan/Triple H - Backlash 2002 - *1/2
11:09 Hogan/Taker - Judgment Day 2002 - *

Just plain awful matches. They even made Punk/Ryback from HIAC look like a good match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished ECW 8/8/2006 and Kurt Angle just had his last match for WWE ever. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> There isn't a better brawler in the WWE than Sheamus. I wasn't a big fan of his matches when he was a heel, but as a face he just works so well with everyone. I'm not sure why that is so because I can never buy him as a face in peril, but he just seems so motivated as a face. On top of that, he actually puts in an equal amount of offense against his opponent in matches, unlike most faces whose offense mainly comes in the finishing stretch. Easy winner for workhorse of the year in 2012.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Video is not available". Fuck you WWE and your shitty youtube channel. Have to search for it elsewhere now.



Dark Church said:


> Hogan's two Undisputed Title PPV main events are two of the worst main events I have ever seen.
> 
> 22:05 Hogan/Triple H - Backlash 2002 - *1/2
> 11:09 Hogan/Taker - Judgment Day 2002 - *
> ...


I disagree on the Taker/Hogan rating. Have it at ★★★¼ personally. Only bad part was Hogan fucking up the chokeslam.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I should hang out here, like all the time. I get too much hate elsewhere and people regard me as a troll, I even get labeled this by members who's posts consist of less than 100 words all the time and are formatted in bullet points.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> 11:09 Hogan/Taker - Judgment Day 2002 - *


I liked the promo(s) leading up to the match, like when Taker drags Hogan on the back of his bike lol, can't remember fuck all about the match though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FACT : John Cena and Edge have NEVER had a one-on-one encounter that reached the four star mark.

I'm dead serious, just finished their series that time and the highest match I have out of them is their **** 3/4* Summerslam encounter, which was awesome but finished just shy of the four star mark from where I sit. They've had some really great TV matches such as the pair of RAW matches in 2006 and a match in 2009 that all go over the three star mark, but I don't know if there's really a more overrated duo I've ever seen in my life. I'd seriously say Cena-Show > Cena-Edge due to Cena-Show never really having a BAD match together, unlike Cena-Edge.

EDIT : WANNA GO FOR A RIDE HOGAN ? That was one of the funniest things I've ever fucking seen in my entire life :lol :lol.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Page 619! My top 10 favorite Mysterio matches:

1) Mysterio vs. Guerrero at Halloween Havoc '97.
2) Mysterio vs. Jericho at The Bash '09.
3) Mysterio & Edge vs. Angle & Benoit at No Mercy '02.
4) Mysterio & Edge vs. Angle & Benoit on SmackDown 7/11/02.
5) Mysterio vs. Angle at SummerSlam '02.
6) Mysterio vs. Guerrero at SummerSlam '05.
7) Mysterio vs. Morrison on SmackDown 9/4/09.
8) Mysterio vs. Cena on Raw 7/25/11.
9) Mysterio vs. Guerrero on SmackDown 5/23/05.
10) Mysterio vs. Punk at Over the Limit '10.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Thank gawd you don't have his abortion of a match with Eddie at WM 21 on there. 

Pretty decent list, i've never seen Mysterio/Cena from 2011, i should get on that asap.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena/Mysterio from that Raw in 2011 is really superb. They should have postponed Punk's return and had that match at Summerslam. With another 10 minutes of the same quality it probably would have been match of the year.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/Hogan JD 2002 is a good match, ***1/2 for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the next match I'm about to watch?

World Heavyweight Championship - King Booker(c) vs The Big Show vs John Cena (Cyber Sunday 2006)


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Triple threat from Cyber Sunday is as average a triple threat as you'll see, with a rubbish ending also. **1/4


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> *FACT* : John Cena and Edge have NEVER had a one-on-one encounter that reached the four star mark.
> 
> I'm dead serious, just finished their series that time and the highest match I have out of them is their **** 3/4* Summerslam encounter, which was awesome but finished just shy of the four star mark from where I sit. They've had some really great TV matches such as the pair of RAW matches in 2006 and a match in 2009 that all go over the three star mark, but I don't know if there's really a more overrated duo I've ever seen in my life. I'd seriously say Cena-Show > Cena-Edge due to Cena-Show never really having a BAD match together, unlike Cena-Edge.


No, that's just your opinion. 

Cena/Show matches are so overdone. I'm sick of seeing them at this point. And I don't think they've had one match together that I've really enjoyed.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Thank gawd you don't have his abortion of a match with Eddie at WM 21 on there.


You don't like that match either? Thank goodness for that. Worst match of the entire series, and possibly the worst match of either's career. Every other match of the series before and after WrestleMania 21 is miles ahead.



> Pretty decent list, i've never seen Mysterio/Cena from 2011, i should get on that asap.


You should definitely check it out. Superb TV match. Wouldn't have had a problem with this taking place at SummerSlam and having them post-pone Punk's return.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

John Cena vs. Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels *(***3/4) *- Taboo Tuesday 2005

This is a great match, surprised how little mentions it gets here. It probably gets overshadowed by the spectacular Trips/Flair match before.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Once i've finished my WWF 2001 Raw fest, i'll check out and watch (and skip) a lot of 2011.

As for recent talk; 

Mysterio/Eddie - WM 21 - ***
Cena/Show/Booker - **** Meh
Cena/HBK/Angle - *****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sheamus vs John Morrison - TLC 2010 - ★★★★
- Really awesome match. The spots were not overly contrived save for the big one in the end and I loved the creative ways Sheamus worked on Morrison's leg. KNEE SMASH WITH A LADDER! Watching this made me think... I do kind of miss Morrison now. Not one of his big fans or anything but he did add something awesome to the shows.

Sheamus vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 18/5/2012 - ★★★¾
- Wow, this was far better than I thought it would be. Great shoulder work by Orton in the beginning and when they start hitting their signatures, it gets even more exciting to watch. I really hope Orton turns heel tomorrow and they feud for the next couple of months. It should be awesome, specially if heel Orton rids himself of his 5 moves of doom.



KingOfKings said:


> FACT : John Cena and Edge have NEVER had a one-on-one encounter that reached the four star mark.


Fact? LOL. I have their TLC match above four, so suck on that!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The TLC match is one of the most overrated matches of all time ; suck on that.

You wanna talk about contrived spots? You have to go watch that match again like I know you will for your 2006 project, and tell me that it isn't obvious spot set up after obvious spot set up. I find all of their matches save for 2 or 3 to be really structure-less, and yes... It's a FACT :lol.

:cena3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> PUNK/Jericho WM 28 = Best WWE championship match in WM history according to TEH MARKZ!




The WWE Universe... GOT SOMETHING RIGHT for a change? I'm fucking baffled and rather pleased .

And now to struggle to sit through WM 27 to post tonight. Urgh. I don't wanna .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Yeah, good luck Cal. Awful Mania. Skip the main event and just call it a DUD


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

backlash 2009


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Redead said:


> backlash 2009


BACKLASH 2009. Christian/Swagger is awesome, second to only their 24/02/2009 ECW match. 6 man is terrific too. Kane/Punk is fun. Steamboat/Jericho is really good. :mark:

I wonder if I own this on DVD. Don't think I do, just a couple of the matches on the best PPV matches of 2009 Bluray. I should buy it. Will be cheap as fuck.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Even suggesting that Cena/Show have better matches than Cena/Edge is insane. The LMS and TLC matches are way better than any Cena/Show match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top 10 U.S. Mysterio Matches:

1. vs. Guerrero HH 97 *******
2. vs. Psychosis BatB 96 *****3/4*
3. vs. Jericho Bash 09 *****1/2*
4. vs. Guerrero Smackdown 2005 *****1/2*
5. w/Edge vs. Benoit/Angle NM 02 *****1/2*
6. Elimination Chamber 2009 *****1/2*
7. Elimination Chamber 2011 *****1/2*
8. vs. Dragon WW3 96 *****1/4*
9. vs. Guerrera 3/9/96 *****1/4* (Oh god, I'm going to die for mentioning this)
10. vs. Morrison Smackdown 2009 *****1/4*


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*John Cena vs Edge - WWE Title match - Summerslam 2006:*

I liked the little promo package they had for this match, it recapped the whole of the Cena/Edge feud from the moment Edge cashed-in his MITB briefcase on Cena at New Years Resolution 2006 to become the new WWE Champion, to Edge's loss at the Rumble, and Edge retaining the title in a triple threat match on RAW featuring Cena and RVD (which I reviewed yesterday here:http://www.wrestlingforum.com/16335322-post6095.html  ) to the heated feuded between them with moments such as Edge slapping Cena's dad, Cena delivering a FU to Edge through the table at Saturday Night's Main Event, to Cena attacking Edge in his hotel room.

Anyway onto the match, the match is held in Boston Massachusetts which is the closest thing to Cena's hometown and during Edge's entrance there's a ''If Edge wins, we riot'' sign which is funny given the outcome of this match. Both men lock up and Cena aggressively pushes Edge into the corner before hammering him in the corner with repeatedly strikes, with the feud being so heated Cena's aggression comes out and he uses that momentum to control the first few minutes of the match. Cena's hits Edge with a nice belly to belly suplex, wish Cena would use that move more. Cena getting a bit overzealous, charges at Edge and Edge sidesteps and Cena goes crashing into the ring post, leading to Edge to take control of the match. Edge keeps Cena down with strikes and throws a nice standing dropkick which Edge rarely used before throwing Cena to the outside. Edge for the second time in the match tries to get a win by countout, but Cena gets back in the ring fairly quickly and tries to make a comeback but is stopped by a sweet wheel kick by Edge after Cena was coming off the ropes. For the next couple of minutes very time Cena tries to get back into the match, Edge stops him by throwing Cena to the outside, then ducking a cross body attempt from Cena, and then leveling him with a hard clothesline. Edge keeps Cena down with a surfboard stretch submission, and then turns it into a headlock, this fires up Cena and once again it appears Cena's going to make a comeback, but he walks into a big boot from Edge, and then a clothesline from Edge off the top rope after Edge once again cuts off Cena's offense. 

Edge tries to keep Cena down again with a rest hold, but Cena's uses his great strength to drop Edge down to the mat, and both men are down for a few seconds before Cena nails Edge with that signature bulldog of his. Then, Lita brings a chair into the match, but Edge gets quickly rid of it because the stipulation of this match was if Edge got disqualified, he would lose the title, but this distraction enables Cena making a long awaited comeback with his traditional shoulder blocks and spinning side slam to Edge, followed up with a five knuckle shuffle. Cena then attempts a FU, but Edge reverses into a Edgecution for a near fall. Edge goes to the top rope, Cena tries to cut him off into a FU, Edge gets out and picks up Cena's into a electric chair like position, but Cena reverses into a nice looking victory roll pin for a close 2 count. Cena reverses a cross body attempt and uses his sheer strength to pick up Edge for a FU from the ground, which I always liked it when Cena did that, such a sweet counter.. but Edge counters and tries to throw Cena into Lita who's on the ring apron, but instead Cena sends Edge into Lita, off that distraction Cena tries to get a quick roll up pin, but doesn't get the win. Then, Edge goes for a spear and Cena takes down Edge into a STF. With Edge realizing he tapped to the STF at the Royal Rumble, he desperately tries to get to the ropes, while Lita tries to distract Cena with the WWE Title, eventually Edge does get to ropes and while the ref is telling Cena to break the hold, Lita slips brass knuckles on Edge's hand and Edge nails Cena in the back with the brass knuckles after countering a FU attempt for the win. A awesome heel victory in Cena's hometown while JR screams ''SON OF A BITCH'' at Edge :lol.

******

I watched the match on Dailymotion. Link here if anyone else wants to watch it: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/edge+vs+john+cena+summerslam/1#video=xy9f7r


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> PUNK/Jericho WM 28 = Best WWE championship match in WM history according to TEH MARKZ!


Damn, by the WWE.com casuals, no less. That's surprising.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cena/Edge TLC is really bad.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I was there live. Like it, but also think it's overrated by most.

***1/2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 27 review posted on my BLOG~!

Kinda cheated a bit though. Basically used my review from the last time I watched it . But I still watched the matches and if anything changed I was gonna change the reviews/ratings, but I don't think anything did bar the main event rating which went down 1/4*... to 1/4* . And of course threw some NO's at matches I didn't want to watch even though I had reviews written for them from last time. Planning on doing the same with WM 28 just because I'm knackered atm, and I still have work 2morrow followed by some after work... thing at work for a couple of hours, and I might just come home and NAP until midnight when WM airs .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wrest...ans-he-wants-brock-wm-xxx-3.html#post16369866

:mark:

Would love to know what exactly was said.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Big Z said:


> WM 27 review posted on my BLOG~!
> 
> Kinda cheated a bit though. Basically used my review from the last time I watched it . But I still watched the matches and if anything changed I was gonna change the reviews/ratings, but I don't think anything did bar the main event rating which went down 1/4*... to 1/4* . And of course threw some NO's at matches I didn't want to watch even though I had reviews written for them from last time. Planning on doing the same with WM 28 just because I'm knackered atm, and I still have work 2morrow followed by some after work... thing at work for a couple of hours, and I might just come home and NAP until midnight when WM airs .


hey cal, these JOBBERS are hating on taker vs Triple H from that ppv

ban them

especially tbhaley


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Honestly, despite the awful build, Wrestlemania tomorrow might not be that bad. SHIELD/GEEKS, Taker/Punk (if it's not a squash), HHH/Lesnar, Tag title match, Del Rio/Swagger, and Jericho/Fandango should all be good. That only leaves Rock/Cena, Henry/Ryback, and the eight person tag to not be any good. Hell, Rock/Cena could actually end up being good if they keep it around 15-17 minutes and it's more story-driven than action driven.

Best case scenario for Rock/Cena is if they play-up the story of Cena not being able to defeat Dwayne, and Cena eventually resorts to heel tactics to win "his" belt back. This would have to include Dwayne kicking out of multiple AA's and getting to the ropes whenever he's in the STF. I doubt they would have Cena go full on heel to win the belt (such as destroying Dwayne with a chair) but he might use a low blow, grab the tights, or something like that. 

With that said, it probably won't make the match more than *** at best, but they have the opportunity to tell a pretty good story tomorrow night. Hopefully they go with it. If Cena turns heel, he needs to have a year-long run with the belt, culminating in a Title vs. Streak/Career match against the Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXX.

Mega-Heel John Cena vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXX :mark:


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Should watch Cole/Lawler just before Mania tomorrow. It'll make the whole event seem so much better. I think that's what happens with the Trips/Taker match. :torres



Nostalgia said:


> Cena/Show matches are so overdone. I'm sick of seeing them at this point. And I don't think they've had one match together that I've really enjoyed.


They've never had a match over ** tbh.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Big Z, I was reading your review and didn't notice your Cole/Lawler review was simply "no".

I skimmed down through what I thought was a lengthy review for such a throw-away match before seeing "****1/4". I almost fell out my chair until I realised it was for the main event. 

Good write-up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> Even suggesting that Cena/Show have better matches than Cena/Edge is insane. The LMS and TLC matches are way better than any Cena/Show match.


:lmao

yeah, b/c opinions can't differ at all. I'll gladly take most Cena vs Show matches over Cena vs Edge matches.



> hey cal, these JOBBERS are hating on taker vs Triple H from that ppv
> 
> ban them
> 
> especially tbhaley


:hayley3


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

why do you also hate Edge vs Cena Backlash 2009

it was a good match dammit. especially loved Edge's "I hate you John Cena" character

also big show made an appearance. YAY~!


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Edge's promo on the Cutting Edge in the buildup to that match was just fantastic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't hate it. If you want a match I "hate" you'll have to look for the Hardy vs Hardy I Quit match on the same show. It's trash.

As far as the LMS goes it falls under standard Edge matches later in his career. Nothing special. More than half of the match is so uneventful it's a bit of a shame. The final stretch it gets fun enough. The FU on the fans for example. When it comes to that show, I'm always left loving Christian/Swagger, Jericho/Steamboat, & Legacy vs Trips/Batista/Shane.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> WM 27 review posted on my BLOG~!
> 
> Kinda cheated a bit though. Basically used my review from the last time I watched it . But I still watched the matches and if anything changed I was gonna change the reviews/ratings, but I don't think anything did bar the main event rating which went down 1/4*... to 1/4* . And of course threw some NO's at matches I didn't want to watch even though I had reviews written for them from last time. Planning on doing the same with WM 28 just because I'm knackered atm, and I still have work 2morrow followed by some after work... thing at work for a couple of hours, and I might just come home and NAP until midnight when WM airs .


Damn your HHH/Taker rating is high, it's ****3/4* for me. 



GOON The Legend said:


> Best case scenario for Rock/Cena is if they play-up the story of Cena not being able to defeat Dwayne, and Cena eventually resorts to heel tactics to win "his" belt back. This would have to include Dwayne kicking out of multiple AA's and getting to the ropes whenever he's in the STF. I doubt they would have Cena go full on heel to win the belt (such as destroying Dwayne with a chair) but he might use a low blow, grab the tights, or something like that.
> 
> With that said, it probably won't make the match more than *** at best, but they have the opportunity to tell a pretty good story tomorrow night. Hopefully they go with it. If Cena turns heel, he needs to have a year-long run with the belt, culminating in a Title vs. Streak/Career match against the Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXX.
> 
> Mega-Heel John Cena vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXX :mark:


And the worst case scenario: Cena and Rock have a perfectly fair, underwhelming 20 minute match that ends with Cena beating Rock clean and both shaking hands at the end.



haribo said:


> They've never had a match over ** tbh.


I'd probably agree. Their match at No Way Out 2012 was so dull and long, and I couldn't wait for it to be over, and when it finally ended, it ended in a underwhelming manner. I was also annoyed that their shitty rehashed feud main-evented over Punk's triple threat match with Kane and Bryan. 

The Cena/Show rivalry always sucked.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> And the worst case scenario: Cena and Rock have a perfectly fair, underwhelming 20 minute match that ends with Cena beating Rock clean and both shaking hands at the end.


That's the most likely scenario, sadly.

EDIT- Watched a random HHH/Orton match this morning. It was from the final Raw before New Years Revolution 2005, I believe. It's a pretty fun match that gets chaotic towards the end when the other four members of the elimination chamber match run down and start brawling with each other. It ends with Shawn Michaels running down to be the referee and Randy Orton pins HHH clean as a whistle in the middle of the ring with the RKO. I'd probably put it at the *** mark.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm in full agreement with KOK. I know others who are too. It isn't a big deal. Since when did not caring for Edge matches become such an offensive statement? It's kind of sad.

Big Show is the fuxin man.

and Cena's best opponent is obviously Punk. It's a no contest. Every match with time is good or great. That blows the rest right out of the water. Although Jericho is a close #2.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> EDIT- Watched a random HHH/Orton match this morning. It was from the final Raw before New Years Revolution 2005, I believe. It's a pretty fun match that gets chaotic towards the end when the other four members of the elimination chamber match run down and start brawling with each other. It ends with Shawn Michaels running down to be the referee and Randy Orton pins HHH clean as a whistle in the middle of the ring with the RKO. I'd probably put it at the *** mark.


A highly underrated match. (Y)


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Just skimmed through that list of 710 matches at **** or over posted a few pages back and it has like 5 Chavo Guerrero matches, I'm taking this as a sign not to take it too seriously.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I personally don't really get the Big Show love from some people. The last time Big Show was interesting was during his 2006 ECW title run, that's the last time I enjoyed his character. He was booked as an unstoppable monster then, and that's where he shined. He's had a few good moments over the years since then, and a few good matches but that's it for me. 



GOON The Legend said:


> That's the most likely scenario, sadly.


Yeah, I was going to say that. A heel turn is really far-fetched imo, but I don't blame people for hoping for it, whatever it takes to make you enjoy the match more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OMG WHY DOES EVERYBODY HATE CHAVO!?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show has had a plethora of great matches. How the man continues to be underrated will forever vex me. Guy is a better worker - having the disadvantage of being a giant - than most of an "average" size. Not to mention he uses his unique size to add a different approach to his matches too. Turns a then potential negative _(like en route to how someone like Khali is immobile or how a few "big men" out there in the biz can be slow, lazy, or bad)_ into a positive. His talent doesn't have to harped on though. He is & has been one of the top ten guys on the roster for years.

EDIT ~ :lmao

CHAVO


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Show had an awesome 2008. He had almost as good a year as anybody in the company. I'd take him over Michaels, HHH and Jericho that year easily who are three guys that have praised 2008s. Actually, I kind of need to get this off of mah chest - I really don't like Michaels' 2008 at all. I like approximately two of the million Jericho matches, a Hardy match on Raw, and the Flair match. Everything else is either 'whatever' or rubbish. There. I SAID IT. YOU HAPPY NOW? 

You know who else supposedly had a good 2008? Chavo. I will get around to it one day when I finally watch all of the ECW episodes that year.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> A highly underrated match. (Y)


Yeah, I was shocked that I enjoyed it so much. I believe it was the first match between the two men since Triple H beat him for the World Heavyweight Championship at Unforgiven. Orton coming out right at the start and wanting to beat the hell out of Triple H was pretty cool and because of that, the match never really hit a snag in terms of pace. It's amazing how inconsistent the chemistry between Randy Orton and Triple H is. They've had some pretty great encounters (No Mercy 2007), yet they've had some utter shite encounters as well (Wrestlemania 25). 

I can somewhat understand the love for Big Show. He's a pretty good big man, but most of his matches (mostly against John Cena) just aren't my cup of tea. To be fair, I felt the same way about FINLAY matches a couple of years ago and I love me some Finlay now a days.

EDIT- Big Show had a good 2008? Luckily I downloaded all of the 2008 pay per views and I'm currently transferring all of the 2008 Raw's over to my laptop. I'm still trying to find a way to download Smackdown from 2008, though. The torrent link doesn't work in my seedbox and the download speed for it outside of my seedbox is utter shite.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Has someone tried to say Shawn had anything good outside of the matches you listed, Yeah? b/c Shawn's '08 was rather linear thanks to being occupied vs Jericho for the majority or being "injured" for like nearly three months. His Backlash match vs Batista isn't special and I'm drawing a blank on what I think about the Shawn/Batista stretcher match. I know I didn't like it as much as some others.

Big Show in '08 sounds like a fun project. I know he had a match vs Jeff Hardy on Smackdown that I really, really enjoyed. Do believe it was right after Jeff won the WWE Championship.

Finlay :mark: Although his 2008 so far hasn't been his best year compared to '06 or '07. Although he had that pretty awesome match vs Chuck Palumbo in like late April or early May.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> Yeah, I was shocked that I enjoyed it so much. I believe it was the first match between the two men since Triple H beat him for the World Heavyweight Championship at Unforgiven. Orton coming out right at the start and wanting to beat the hell out of Triple H was pretty cool and because of that, the match never really hit a snag in terms of pace. It's amazing how inconsistent the chemistry between Randy Orton and Triple H is. They've had some pretty great encounters (No Mercy 2007), yet they've had some utter shite encounters as well (Wrestlemania 25).


Yeah, that was their first match together since Unforgiven as Orton lost the right to challenge for the championship due to Evolution shenanigans. And agree on that too. Orton has been that way with a few. But never has it been more displayed than against Triple H as they can have a great match one day and a shit one another. Sucks that they were at their very worst at the biggest stage of them all in Orton's biggest main event match. But that's not fully their fault as they should have been given a No Holds Barred stipulation.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

It's hard to fault HHH/Orton for their shitty match at Wrestlemania 25 too much. The story going in was that Triple H wanted to kill Randy Orton, yet he couldn't do so without losing the title via DQ. Had this been at a minor pay per view then they could have gone the route of Triple H not caring about losing the title and deciding to just destroy Orton. However, that wouldn't have flown in the main event of Wrestlemania. I get what they were trying to go with by having the "If Triple H is disqualified he loses the title" stipulation, but it just made for a crappy match. If anything, they should have just had their No Mercy 2007 match at Wrestlemania, except with it just being No Holds Barred and not Last Man Standing.

Speaking of that match, the spot where Triple H whacks Randy Orton in the back of the head with a steel chair while Orton's head is on the ring steps is just fantastic. I remember watching that match live (ordered No Mercy 2007 on a whim) and marking out hard for it. Triple H/Randy Orton from No Mercy is STILL my favorite Last Man Standing match to this day. It's so, so awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly don't know why they build up Triple H vs Randy Orton to be so volatile, only for the match to be worked in a straight up "wrestling" fashion. It made no sense in correlation to the story behind the match. Yeah, Trips was beyond aggressive and wanted Randy's blood. We got that, and the added stip was semi-logical in adding the drama. However, it was more of a ceiling than anything. Those two should have ripped & tore each other up. I know the "PG" rating was around at the time, but if there was a moment or match to include a bladejob in, it was that match. Leaves me to think of all the pointless bladejobs by Triple H in matches prior than not having it at WM 25. I'm not saying the sight of blood would have automatically made the match good; more or less having it be used to enhance the match on a level the build was leaning towards. That's the real problem with the match. Build went one way & the end result went another. A complete 180 on all the fans. I think that's what aided in making the whole 23 minutes flat out dull. In accordance to the match generally being worked poorly too. Trips vs Orton series isn't the more reliable, but it still is a perplexing one at how wrong that whole scenario played out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> Speaking of that match, the spot where Triple H whacks Randy Orton in the back of the head with a steel chair while Orton's head is on the ring steps is just fantastic. I remember watching that match live (ordered No Mercy 2007 on a whim) and marking out hard for it. Triple H/Randy Orton from No Mercy is STILL my favorite Last Man Standing match to this day. It's so, so awesome.


Orton took a chair shot to the back of his head? Damn, I don't even recall it. Might have to rewatch the match now since it's been so long.

Only chair shots to the back of the head I recall seeing are two HHH gave Benoit (one in their Ironman match, another in a tag match in 04) and Taker to Hogan in Judgment Day.

EDIT: Speaking of Triple H, this DX reunion in 06 is so cheesy. They've run this "Vince loves cock" joke to the ground (cock as in rooster). Almost at SummerSlam now.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah, 2009 was the year where the "PG" rating was really making its presence felt so that might have been why the Orton/HHH match was made to be so tame after such an intense build-up. Even then though, that doesn't make much sense since part of the build-up to the match was Randy Orton kicking an old man in the head, Randy Orton DDTing and kissing Triple H's unconscious wife, and Triple H breaking into Randy Orton's home. It makes no sense why the match ended up being what it was.

EDIT- @C2D- It was when Randy Orton had the steel steps in his hands and Triple H tripped him, which led to Orton's head resting on top of the steps. Triple H then grabbed a chair and blasted Orton in the back of the head, crushing his head in between the steps and the chair. I'm pretty bad at explaining, though.






3:45.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

VladMan2012 said:


> Page 619! My top 10 favorite Mysterio matches:
> 
> 1) Mysterio vs. Guerrero at Halloween Havoc '97.
> 2) Mysterio vs. Jericho at The Bash '09.
> ...


Good list! Mine would probably include the mtch with HBK at the Eddie G tribute show. That was a great one imho.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> EDIT- @C2D- It was when Randy Orton had the steel steps in his hands and Triple H tripped him, which led to Orton's head resting on top of the steps. Triple H then grabbed a chair and blasted Orton in the back of the head, crushing his head in between the steps and the chair. I'm pretty bad at explaining, though.


Ah, _that_ one. Now I remember. Thought it was a real hard blast to the back of the head you talked about.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Wrestlemania 24*

Finlay vs JBL - ***1/2
MITB IV - ****1/2
Batista vs Umaga - *3/4
Kane vs Chavo - Did what it needed
HBK vs Ric Flair - *****
Divas tag - DUD
Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena - ***3/4
Big Show vs Floyd 'Money' Mayweather - ***3/4
Edge vs The Undertaker - ****1/4

~ Opener gets more and more entertaining every time you watch it. Absolute brawl with some pretty crazy spots in it. Real fun match.

~ Consider this to be the best MITB of them all. So many innovative spots just using the ladders. Benjamin's sunset flip tower of doom w/Morrison & Kennedy might be my favorite MITB spot ever. Thought they really gave everyone a chance to shine in this one too, even Carlito.

~ Umaga/Batista pisses me off so much because it could've been great. Instead it was filler for the rest of the show and full of rest holds and nothing of any excitement. You give these two some time and maybe even a hardcore gimmick and you could have a match similar to Umaga/Triple H. Could have been so much more.

~ Kane vs Chavo wasn't really any match of huge interest so I had no problem with it getting 8 seconds. Much better choice for this treatment than Bryan/Sheamus. :/

~ Flair vs Michaels is still one of the most emotional and amazing matches I've ever watched. I recall most people here giving it close to five during the event and shortly after dropping it down a bit. I've still yet to enjoy the match any less and at this point I don't see it ever happening.

~ I like this match, it's pretty good but I feel with 3 guys of this caliber it could have been better. I felt that they never really hit that last gear and picked it up near the end. Very acceptable ending to the match but I've seen better out of triple threats. I recall being almost positive that Orton wasn't walking out of that PPV as champ and being pleasantly surprised when he did.

~ Mayweather vs Show is lots of fun. Really liked the hype for it and they played it off great. Starts off a little slow but turns into mayhem when Floyd's entourage gets involved. Mayweather's punches looked pretty damn brutal too.

~ I think this match gets overshadowed by the HIAC. I don't think there was anyone that expected Edge to win this one, but they actually made him look really good. Still feels like an epic WM main event and both guys have great chemistry together.

~ Goat WM, imo.

*Wrestlemania 26*

R-Truth & John Morrison vs ShoMiz - **1/2
Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes vs Ted DiBiase Jr - **3/4
MITB VI - ***1/2
Sheamus vs Triple H - ***
CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
Bret Hart vs Vince Mcmahon - MINUS FIVE STARS
Chris Jericho vs Edge - ***3/4
Divas tag - 1/4*
John Cena vs Batista - ***1/2
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - *****

~ Opening tag had a really nice pace because of the time it got. Probably still could have been a good match if it were longer but they did a good job of using the time given.

~ Liked the Legacy triple threat but I wished they used it to try and make Rhodes and DiBiase look closer to Orton's level. Both of those guys should have gotten more out of the Legacy stable than they did because WWE stopped booking them strongly.

~ The MITB this year wasn't all that great. Couple fun spots but nothing really stood out.

~ Sheamus vs Triple H was interesting. Did a good job of making Sheamus look good and got Trips on the card, helping his buddy out. Not anything amazing.

~ Punk against Mysterio is an awesome match, especially considering the time they got. These two haven't had a bad match with each other, imo.

~ Bret vs Vince is almost as bad as Cole/Lawler. Holy fuck it was hard to sit through.

~ Edge/Jericho was pretty good but I felt it suffered from the same thing the triple threat from 24 did. Never really hit a fast pace at the end. Really fun match though.

~ I recall loving Cena/Batista on my first view of it, but watching it again it really isn't all that good. Think Batista tapping was kinda lame too. Deserved a little more time too.

~ HBK/Taker is the 2nd best match in WWE history, imo. Right after their HIAC. Another one of the most exciting matches I've ever seen. Despite it being the streak, there was still a feeling that you didn't know if Taker was going to hold on. The moonsault onto Taker's leg is brutal. Absolutely amazing match.

*Superstars 5/26/10*

JTG vs Cody Rhodes - **3/4
Yoshi Tatsu vs Primo - *1/2
Zack Ryder vs Evan Bourne - **3/4

~ Rhodes vs JTG was actually really fun. Lots of near falls and it got good time. Think this might have been one of the first Disaster kicks but I may be wrong.

~ Tatsu vs Primo was short, nothing really happened.

~ Bourne and Ryder have good chemistry together. Hearing commentary about Buzz Aldrin and Jon Lovitz being guest GMs killed me a little inside though. Rather fun match though.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Wrestlemanias 24 and 26 are both extremely good IMO

great cards, top to bottom

You know, looking at the last two wrestlemanias, you definitely feel theres a void where Shawn should be. cant imagine how terrible it will be when Taker is gone too


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Redead said:


> Wrestlemanias 24 and 26 are both extremely good IMO
> 
> great cards, top to bottom
> 
> You know, looking at the last two wrestlemanias, you definitely feel theres a void where Shawn should be. cant imagine how terrible it will be when Taker is gone too


Completely agree. There was always an big feeling around Shawn's match and there was always that chance of it being an absolute classic. When Taker's gone I really don't even know what they can do to make Mania feel really special. They're not building the current guys to ever be in a position like that. Granted it's near impossible to reach HBK or Taker's level.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I can't even imagine how awful Wrestlemania will be when all the big stars are gone.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Has someone tried to say Shawn had anything good outside of the matches you listed, Yeah? b/c Shawn's '08 was rather linear thanks to being occupied vs Jericho for the majority or being "injured" for like nearly three months. His Backlash match vs Batista isn't special and I'm drawing a blank on what I think about the Shawn/Batista stretcher match. I know I didn't like it as much as some others.
> 
> Big Show in '08 sounds like a fun project. I know he had a match vs Jeff Hardy on Smackdown that I really, really enjoyed. Do believe it was right after Jeff won the WWE Championship.
> 
> Finlay :mark: Although his 2008 so far hasn't been his best year compared to '06 or '07. Although he had that pretty awesome match vs Chuck Palumbo in like late April or early May.


People love the stretcher match and I kinda hate it. No, scratch that, I really hate it. And I really don't like most of the Jericho matches. Judgment Day was good and GAB was real good, but I don't like the rest at all, including the ladder match. 

Show v Hardy sounds awesome and I don't remember it. Hardy was good in 08 as well.

Finlay gets to work Mark Henry and Matt Hardy later in the year. So, :mark:


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I know it will never happen but I would instantly buy a Finlay set if WWE made one.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I feel the same way if a DiBiase set comes out. It makes no sense to me why there isnt one. He had an amazing match with Savage at Wrestlefest in 88 (I think thats what its called) where it got the time their WM4 match should have. I hope that sees the light of day on a WWE release someday. It was awesome.

All of this talk of the best title matches at Mania....if Savage and DiBiase got 20 mins at WM4 it would have tore the fucking house down. I saw these two at a house show when I was in like 2nd grade and it was awesome. Still have the program haha. All of that being said it's not too far fetched to think Punk/Jericho is one of the best title matches in Mania history. I fucking loved it. I'd say 4 stars maybe 4 1/2. I think it should have been a straight up I Quit matchbut what do I know. 

A lot of people love it or hate it but Savage/Hogan at WM5 was great I thought. Maybe one of Hogan's best matches in WWF/E. Also, Savage V Flair at WM8 is way underrated.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Since it's been fondly talked about, currently checking out the JoMo/Sheamus ladder match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Since it's been fondly talked about, currently checking out the JoMo/Sheamus ladder match.


You won't be disappointed. (Y)

2009-2011 John Morrison was one of the most consistent guys in the WWE when it came to delivering in TV matches and PPV matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

On tonight's agenda ALL of Savage's Wrestlemania matches. ***that little red guy jerking off***

Yes some of them are crap but sue me. Like half of them are fucking great.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

JoMo vs Sheamus Ladder Match TLC 2010 ****

Gotta go with four stars since I was entranced by both performers. I seriously thought Sheamus was going to win since they made it seem like JoMo had no chance of winning, a kind of uber underdog. 

Nothing came of his chance at the big matches right? I do remember JoMo getting pushed into the Punk/Hardy feud.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> You won't be disappointed. (Y)
> 
> 2009-2011 John Morrison was one of the most consistent guys in the WWE when it came to delivering in TV matches and PPV matches.


Couldn't agree more. Just off the top of my head:

* Morrison vs. Bourne on ECW 4/14/09.
* Morrison vs. Jericho on Superstars 5/7/09.
* Morrison vs. Benjamin at Judgment Day '09.
* Morrison vs. Edge on SmackDown 6/19/09.
* Morrison vs. Punk series.
* Morrison vs. Hardy on SmackDown 7/39/09.
* Morrison vs. Ziggler at Hell in a Cell '09.
* Morrison vs. Miz at Bragging Rights '09.
* Morrison vs. Swagger series.
* Morrison vs. Bryan vs. Miz at Hell in a Cell '10.
* Morrison vs. Sheamus at TLC '10.
* Morrison vs. Miz on Raw 1/3/11.
* Morrison vs. Miz vs. Cena at Extreme Rules '11.
* Morrison vs. Christian on SmackDown 7/29/11.
* Morrison vs. Del Rio on Raw 8/22/11.

All quality matches. Morrison was freaking gold in the ring.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

People shit on Rey vs. Eddie from Mania 21 WAY too much. So Rey has to fool with his mask every now and then, it's not that bad folks. The action was just fine, in fact very good at times. I feel like it's one of those matches where the hate just gets piggybacked cause it's the cool thing to do.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok so Savage V Steele at WM 2 was pretty terrible but fun. I will give it ** but why and the fuck did Steele kick out of the elbow off the top? Wow...whatever. 

Now it's time for Savage V Steamboat WM3. I hear good things about it. #RedGuyJackingOff


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

VladMan2012 said:


> Couldn't agree more. Just off the top of my head:
> 
> * Morrison vs. Bourne on ECW 4/14/09.
> * Morrison vs. Jericho on Superstars 5/7/09.
> ...


(Y) :mark:

You're a good man, Vlad, uh Man.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> People shit on Rey vs. Eddie from Mania 21 WAY too much. So Rey has to fool with his mask every now and then, it's not that bad folks. The action was just fine, in fact very good at times. I feel like it's one of those matches where the hate just gets piggybacked cause it's the cool thing to do.


I agree with this. It's certainly not what you REALLY want from a Rey v Eddie match, but it's certainly not bad. I blame Cal, he started the hate for it. Tch stupid Cal. First you spread the hate for Chavo (didn't start it, but SPREAD it) and now THIS.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Nothing else can be said about Savage/Steamboat that has not been said. It's amazing and my favorite match of all time. It changed the business. I really think it opened the doors for guys like Bret Hart & HBK and guys like Jericho & Edge can't talk about it without smiling. 

*****


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Bret Hart vs. Diesel - Survivor Series *(****)* - Psychology and storytelling at it's finest.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I can't stand Nash but him and Bret had some great chemistry. The RR and KotR matches were great too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret and Nash @ Survivor Series 1995 is ***** 1/2* from me, easily Nash's best match ever.

So guys, we might be in the last 22 hours of The Roid's reign of terror over the WWE Championship. Is anybody else excited?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Dat Cena/Rock handshake with trash being thrown into the ring 

:mark:


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> Bret and Nash @ Survivor Series 1995 is ***** 1/2* from me, easily Nash's best match ever.
> 
> So guys, we might be in the last 22 hours of The Roid's reign of terror over the WWE Championship. Is anybody else excited?


What if by some act of god The Rock won again how would you feel?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm so happy that the shit build is over and we can focus on a bunch of matches that no doubt have the potential to add up to be perhaps one of the greatest Wrestlemanias ever. The legacy of THIS show seems to fall solely on Roid-Cena II ; if the match flops it seems as if the PPV will flop. If anybody on this planet can take that steaming pile of shit and turn it into something watchable it's John Boy.

EDIT : I'd delay the inevitable celebration for a few weeks, as there's a 0 percent chance he holds it past Extreme Rules. Cena having an extended title reign isn't as sweet as CM FUCKING PUNK having one of course, but it's my second favorite (realistic) option at the moment so I'll take it.

:cena3


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'll be pretty happy when Rock is off TV and not taking the championship off television while doing so. He's brought nothing to the product as far as my interests go, had no high quality matches or promos and has seriously damaged the fandom I had for him as a kid.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I'll be pretty happy when Rock is off TV and not taking the championship off television while doing so. He's brought nothing to the product as far as my interests go, had no high quality matches or promos and has seriously damaged the fandom I had for him as a kid.


I completely agree with this.

Rock's return since 2011 has hurt him, not helped him for me. It's been terrible promo after terrible promo and the matches are nothing to shout home about either, especially his diabolical series with Punk. It's ruined what The Rock used to be and it's a shame.

& the way the belt has been treated since, what? 2011 has been awful too. His reign is not helping things at all. 

Before anyone mentions Punk, he didn't have a very memorable reign either but that's because he was half way down the card and taking a seat to Big Johnny and Big Show last year. At least he was having good matches week in week out. Rock is marketable and brings a mainstream light to the WWE which is all well and good for business but from a fans perspective it's been truly awful.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk's reign could have been much better if he main-evented PPV after PPV. When you are the WWe Champ and a Cena/Big Johnny match is more important then yours, well then there is a problem


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

I really don't see what is so different or bad about Rock's promos these days. The argument for the ring work is well and good but he has hardly changed in the promo area. Hes had good ones and not so good ones since his return in 2011. They all do. At heart, hes still the same as he was in many ways before he left on the stick. You just grew up and your taste changed. When he does leave, and is done for years, and doing his HOF speech you'll look back and see it really isnt that bad.

The delivery is still there, the catchphrases are still there, and giving good content to work with, he still makes good moments work.

I dont get the hes changed, hes not the same, hes hurting how I felt about him when I was a kid talk.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't think there's much disputing that CM PUNK is the best full timer the WWE has right now in terms of an all around talent both storytelling wise in the ring meshing with unbelievable swagger on the microphone. Since rumors are running rampant at the moment about Punk taking some time off after Wrestlemania, what the hell is the WWE going to do to combat this? They have nobody on the roster full time that even has the capability to match up to his role as the to heel, so who will the WWE choose to fill his void for perhaps 1-2 months after he takes time off?

I mean, I'm cool with having Cena-Punk at every single PPV (as even Punk said in an interview this weekend "it's me, it's John, and then there's everybody else") as the company doesn't really have anybody near that ability besides the two (in terms of appeal + talent on every platform), but who exactly are we going to see Cena feud with directly post Mania? The SHIELD again?


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Cena's running through the entire WWE heel roster.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Outside of Punk, the rest of the heels left on the roster are essentially stuck in midcard hell :lol.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Cena has never faced Mark Henry or Jack Swagger on PPV so that could work. They could also easily make Bryan a heel again and that would be good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> People love the stretcher match and I kinda hate it. No, scratch that, I really hate it. And I really don't like most of the Jericho matches. Judgment Day was good and GAB was real good, but I don't like the rest at all, including the ladder match.
> 
> Show v Hardy sounds awesome and I don't remember it. Hardy was good in 08 as well.
> 
> Finlay gets to work Mark Henry and Matt Hardy later in the year. So, :mark:


It's a blur in my mind overall. I got the DVD here so maybe I'll watch right now or tomorrow. idk. Soon enough. All the Jericho matches ruled imo. Especially the ladder. I mark for many ladder matches though. So, the praise from me doesn't go without a jab towards that direction.

I was going to plug Jeff Hardy's '08 after I said it too. Lots of good matches/performances by him throughout.

Nah, you're right. It was the first half of Finlay's '08 that only had it's fair share of matches worth mentioning (thanks to Hornswoggle bs & feuding with Khali) Outside of vs JBL & Palumbo, I can't recall anything else noteworthy till he jumped to ECW. There he had matches vs Matt Hardy _(which I MUST see again)_, Henry, KNOX, triple threat vs Bourne & Henry, Morrison, etc. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All three of those programs are appealing, however it wouldn't surprise me to see Swagger win the WHC to take him out of the equation, and to have D-Bry in the HELL NO equation for at least another few months. I'm willing to bet that they go Ryback-Cena in a face vs face kind of deal, ensuring that this year is the worst year for main event PPV matches in WWE history .

Also willing to bet that nobody new holds the WWE Championship for a while, even if they decide to go ahead and do Cena-Ryback. I'm guessing it'll be at least mid 2014 before a fresh face holds the WWE Championship. Although the title may have less value itself, the amount of prestige that comes with being the WWE Champion is fucking HUGE ever since the Punk reign - Roid mainstream appeal - JOHN BOY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KOK, you go some predictions for tomorrow? Lets have a little fun in preparation for the show.

although I'm dying to see Punker vs Taker already. Can't wait.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PREDICTION TIME OH BOY.

Funkin' Fucktards against Rhodes Scholars/Twins will more than likely be the bridge between Roid/Cena II and probably BROCK/GAME. Expect a 2-3 minute long match with no substantial value what so ever, with the Rhodes Scholars getting the win since, if you look back through Wrestlemania history there's usually a heel win pre main event to gain heat.

Chris Jericho vs FANDANGOAT, who would've thunk that this would be a match that many are looking forward to at this point? Curtis has done everything to make the gimmick entertaining and will no doubt receive nuclear heat in his debut match. Jericho is Jericho and if given 10 minutes, this could be one of those underrated Wrestlemania greats, expecting at least three stars on this one, a Fandango win to give him fantastic momentum (here's an interesting scenario, Cena vs Fandango in 2013 for the title ; that's a bold prediction from myself) heading into the year.

Ryback vs Mark Henry could be a fantastic big man's match if Mark is allowed to call the shots and if these guys keep everything to the tee and relatively short. Ryback has improved by my estimations lately and has shown he can look capable of good work when in the ring with a guy who can tell a sufficient story like Mark. Of course, everything in this match is just filler before Ryback attempts shellshock on the WSM, and it should be interesting to see if he can actually perform it. I'd go two and a half for this one to go out there and surprise alot of people with just how good it can be, Ryback obviously wins.

THE SHIELD TAG, aka the match I'm anticipating the most. The trio always delivers the goods and I'm willing to bet that this is no exception. Give these guys BIG SHOW to chop down, Orton to isolate, and Sheamus to make the babyface comeback and we've got a show stealer on our hands. This match can only be sub par in my eyes if Orton does a majority of the work, or if it's kept short. I don't see either of those things happening and I see the boys carrying on their GOAT run with a four star match that begs the rest of the card to go out and top it. SHIELD WINS.

Hell No vs Big E and DOLPH is interesting for a few reasons : One, fuck Big-Tit-E. Two, DOLPH vs D-BRY. 3. What does this mean for DOLPH's WHC aspirations? I have no idea, but my prediction is that DOLPH and Tit-E win the belts and that this is a short but sweet match with some really nice sequences.

The World Heavyweight Championship... OH BOY. I have 0 fucking interest in Dull Rio at this point but I'm hoping for SWAGGER to go out there and wrestle like a beast in order to make this shit worth it. If it's just Del Rio making Swagger tap out after a normal match so that he and Retardo can have his revenge with no cash in, I'm probably going to rage. Even if this is good I probably won't enjoy it due to being more bored with Rio than I have with any other main event guy EVER. My prediction for this match is one and three quarter stars with Swagger being the main reason that it doesn't fail TOO miserably. Rio wins with a successful Dolph cash in, leaving him a dual champion by the time the show is over. 

I'm tired as fuck and I'm falling asleep, but I'll post REAL IN DEPTH THOUGHTS AND SHIT on the three main event matches tomorrow. TRUST ME ; it'll be worth a read due to a few things I have to say about BROCK/GAME/CENA/PUNK/ROID/TAKER on this show in general. No "industry talk" nonsense or fantasy booking, I'm just going to speak my mind on a few things and it'll be worth a read.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> I agree with this. It's certainly not what you REALLY want from a Rey v Eddie match, but it's certainly not bad. I blame Cal, he started the hate for it. Tch stupid Cal. First you spread the hate for Chavo (didn't start it, but SPREAD it) and now THIS.


Hey, not my fault if people could finally SEE THE TRUTH after I spread it around .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Points should be dropped on the CAL SCALE due to The Roid's WOAT promo to open WM XXVII.

WORST. PROMO. OF. ALL. TIME.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well the bulk of what you wrote was plenty enteratining and honestly much more than I was expecting - detailed wise. Good stuff. Have to say I think I'll laze up with this response for now and write out a bit more tomorrow if I find any bit of time to hop online before the show begins. Plenty busy tomorrow so we'll see.

I'll add this bit for now: I easily see the Faces winning the multi-person tag. It's a forgone conclusion that it is the filler match of the show. It is what Dolph vs Morrison + divas tag was from WM 27. There to get some lads on the card and the random Divas bout of the night. Tis a shame that all four men will get dealt a poor hand for WM, but at least they're all there. Someone like Kofi Kingston or heck even Antonio Cesaro is probably wishing they had this spot simply b/c it means a match at WM. Henry vs Ryback has world's of potential from my point of view. I was wanting it the moment tension was teased. I love a good heavyweight/big man rumble and this can be boatload's of fun. Time shouldn't even be an issue regarding the two either. Let em go out, smash each other, have someone win and things will be all good.

like I said, I'll add some more tomorrow on my end. Tired too and it's probably for the best I get as much sleep as I can.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All I can say is - as long as the show is as good as the stage (GOAT STAGE, even better than 24's), we have here some dope material. Jericho/FANDANGOAT, Shield/Shorteamus, Taker/Punk and Trips/Lesnar should all deliever.

And now... *Ladies and gentlemen, all the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCHES OF THE 2010'S SO FAR:*

Taker/Rey, Royal Rumble 2010 - ***1/2
Elimination Chamber Match, Elimination Chamber 2010 - ****1/4
Jericho/Edge, WrestleMania 26 - ***1/4
Jericho/Swagger, Smackdown 4/2/2010 - DUD
Swagger/Edge/Jericho, Smackdown 4/16/2010 - ***
Swagger/Orton, Extreme Rules 2010 - ***1/4
Swagger/Show, Over The Limit 2010 - 3/4*
Swagger/Punk/Show/Rey, Fatal 4-Way 2010 - **1/2
Rey/Swagger, Money In The Bank 2010 - ***1/2
Rey/Kane, Money In The Bank 2010 - 1/2*
Kane/Rey, SummerSlam 2010 - ***1/4
Kane/Taker, Night Of Champions 2010 - ***1/2
Kane/Taker, Hell In A Cell 2010 - *
Kane/Taker, Bragging Rights 2010 - **1/4
Kane/Edge, Survivor Series 2010 - *
Kane/Edge/Rey/ADR, TLC 2010 - ***3/4

Edge/Kane, Smackdown 1/7/2011 - ***1/2
Edge/Ziggler, Royal Rumble 2011 - ***1/2
Edge & Kelly/Ziggler & LayCool, Smackdown 2/4/2011 (yes this happened) - **
Edge/Ziggler, Smackdown 2/11/2011 - ***
Ziggler/Edge, Smackdown 2/18/2011 - **
Elimination Chamber Match, Elimination Chamber 2011 - ****1/2
Edge/ADR, WrestleMania 27 - ***1/2
Christian/ADR, Extreme Rules 2011 - ****1/2
Christian/Orton, Smackdown 5/6/2011 - ***3/4
Orton/Christian, Over The Limit 2011 - ****1/2
Orton/Sheamus, Smackdown 6/3/2011 - ***
Orton/Christian, Capitol Punishment 2011 - ***1/2
Orton/Christian, Money In The Bank 2011 - ***3/4
Christian/Orton, SummerSlam 2011 - ****1/2
Orton/Christian, Smackdown 9/2/2011 - ***1/2
Orton/Henry, Night Of Champions 2011 - ***3/4
Henry/Christian, Smackdown 9/23/2011 - **3/4
Henry/Orton, Hell In A Cell 2011 - ***1/4
Henry/Orton, Smackdown 10/14/2011 - **1/2
Henry/Show, Vengeance 2011 - ***1/2
Henry/Show, Survivor Series 2011 - **
Henry/Bryan, Smackdown 11/25/2011 - DUD
Henry/Bryan, Smackdown 12/2/2011 - ***1/2
Henry/Show, TLC 2011 - **1/2
Show/Bryan, TLC 2011 - DUD

Bryan/Show, Smackdown 1/6/2012 - **3/4
Bryan/Show, Smackdown 1/13/2012 - ***1/2
Bryan/Henry, Smackdown 1/20/2012 - **1/4
Bryan/Show/Henry, Royal Rumble 2012 - ***
Elimination Chamber Match, Elimination Chamber 2012 - ****
Bryan/Sheamus, WrestleMania 28 - DUD *(WOAT WHC match)*
Sheamus/Bryan, Extreme Rules 2012 - ****3/4
Sheamus/Jericho/Orton/ADR, Over The Limit 2012 - ***3/4
Sheamus/Ziggler, No Way Out 2012 - ***3/4
Sheamus/ADR/Ziggler, Smackdown 6/29/2012 - ***
Sheamus/ADR, Money In The Bank 2012 - **1/2
Sheamus/ADR, SummerSlam 2012 - **3/4
Sheamus/ADR, Night Of Champions 2012 - ***1/4
Sheamus/Show, Hell In A Cell 2012 - ****1/4
Show/Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012 - ***1/2
Show/Sheamus, TLC 2012 - ***
Show/ADR, Smackdown 12/22/2012 - **
Show/Rodriguez, Raw 12/29/2012 - 1/4* (Because of the storytelling involved only)

Show/ADR, Smackdown 1/11/2013 - ***3/4
ADR/Show, Royal Rumble 2013 - **3/4
ADR/Show, Elimination Chamber 2013 - **3/4
*ADR/Swagger, WrestleMania 29 - ???*


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWF Raw 10/08/2001 – WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle*

Another fantastic match from these two, these two had crazy good chemistry. What’s often forgotten is how AWESOME Austin is in the ring because of how great he was at talking, but this was more proof that he was excellent in the ring. They worked a perfect story of neither man being able to control the pace, and made it make sense because Austin controlled the “SSlam” match and Angel controlled the “Unfrogiven” match so both guy went back and countered everything the other guy throw at the other. One great moment was when Austin was in brief control he tried the Piledriver again causing Kurt to snap, trying it again leading to being Back Dropped on the concrete and Kurt's comeback was pretty great. Regal turning isn’t needed at all as the Alliance already had two people with match making abilities. ***3/4


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*SMIG's Top 29 Wrestlemania matches of all time​*

*29. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
28. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore Match ; Wrestlemania XXII)
27. WWF Tag Team Championship - Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boys vs The Hardy Boys (TLC Match : Wrestlemania XVII)
26. The Rock vs Hulk Hogan (Icon vs Icon ; Wrestlemania XVIII)
25. WWE Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Hulk Hogan (Wrestlemania V)
24. Intercontinental Championship - Roddy Piper(c) vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania VIII)
23. Triple H vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII)
22. World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIII)
21. Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XXI)
20. World Heavyweight Championship - Edge(c) vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIV)
19. WWE Championship – Kurt Angle(c) vs Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XIX)
18. WWE Championship – CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XVIII)
17. Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XIX)
16. Edge vs Chris Benoit vs Kane vs Christian vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjamin (Money in the Bank ; Wrestlemania XXI)
15. WWE Championship - Ric Flair(c) vs Randy Savage (Wrestlemania VIII)
14. Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XIX)
13. WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
12. WWE Championship & Intercontinental Championship - Hulk Hogan(c) vs Ultimate Warrior(c) (Title vs Title ; Wrestlemania VI)
11. Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair (Career Threatening Match ; Wrestlemania XXIV)
10. Undertaker vs Triple H w/ Shawn Michaels Special Referee ( Hell in a Cell ; Wrestlemania XXVIII)
9. WWE Championship - The Rock (c) vs Steve Austin (Wrestlemania XVII)
8. Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (Retirement Match ; Wrestlemania VII)
7. Intercontinental Championship - Randy Savage(c) vs Ricky Steamboat (Wrestlemania III)
6. Intercontinental Championship - Razor Ramon(c) vs Shawn Michaels (Ladder match ; Wrestlemania X)
5. Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXV)
4. Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Streak vs Career ; Wrestlemania XXVI)
3. Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Brother vs Brother ; Wrestlemania X)
*

*2. World Heavyweight Championship - Triple H(c) vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit (Wrestlemania XX)

"For 18 years I fought to be the best" Chris Benoit​*










What an absolute classic this is, even me the biggest HBK mark couldn't help but root for Benoit. This is a guy who travelled the world honing his craft, went out there every night focused on having the best match and didn't care about what the hierarchy thought of him, he came so close on so many occasions. All his 18 year career led up to this match and this moment. Alot of people were sceptical of adding HBK to this match, but it all added to the drama and in my view the key component for what is an unbelievable story. It doesn't get any bigger then this the main event of Wrestlemania, inside the most famous arena on the planet for the world title. 

It starts with both Benoit and HBK trying to attack HHH, which makes sense with how much beef HBK has with HHH and Benoit wanting to dethrone the champion. HHH gets knocked out of the ring as Benoit and HBK go at it HHH waits on the outside and picks his time to nail Shawn with a clothesline and take control. I love the storytelling without with HBK trying to beat down HHH but Benoit was acting as a inconvenience. They both then realised Benoit was a huge threat so they tried to put him out for good with the table spot, so they could battle it out such awesome storytelling. It made Benoit look like a world beater, forcing mortal enemies HHH and HBK to team up to dispose of him and Benoit still came back. The drama in this match was incredible especially the last few minutes. The crowd was behind Benoit all the way, as HHH lined up the pedigree the crowd gasped but only for Benoit to reverse into the crossface and forcing the most dominate champion in years to tap out. Everything was perfect the selling, storytelling, psychology, drama and ending. Without a doubt the most satisfying ending to a Wrestlemania ever. 

This is easily the greatest triple threat match in WWE History and the greatest main event in Wrestlemania History. With all the talk of HHH not putting over talent, him and HBK put over Benoit as a world beater. The lasting image of Benoit and Eddie celebrating with the biggest titles in the world of professional wrestling, is one of the greatest moments ever and also one of the saddest seeing both of them gone far too soon. It's an utter shame that this moment and match will never be remembered in WWE folklore. What a moment for Benoit if there was ever a moment I would want being a WWE superstar it would be this, winning the world title in the main event of Wrestlemania in Madison Square Garden you couldn't dream of anything better. Without question one of the top 5 matches in WWE history in my view and the 2nd greatest match in Wrestlemania History. What could possibly top this?​
******​*


*1. Bret Hart vs Steve Austin (Submission Match ; Wrestlemania XIII)

"Stone Cold will refuse to submit to the Hitman and that's the bottom line!" Jerry Lawler​*









Yer no surprises here, the match universally recognised as the greatest in not just WM history but in WWE history and for good reason. Outside of Hogan/Andre I can't think of another match that changed the landscape of wrestling quite like this. There are so many reasons why this match never should have happened, if HHH wouldn’t have been involved in the Curtain Call, Austin never would have won the KOTR cut the famous 3:16 promo and made himself a star. Wm13 was still centered around HBK/Hart, but one phantom knee injury, so they say put HBK out of WM and left Bret with nothing to do. Bret started to lose his place inside the company with DX becoming the top heels and Austin starting to gather face reactions due to how well he was connecting with the audience. So basically with no fresh top heel for Bret to work with, a feud was born with Austin coming out to claim he was the best. They produced a technical classic at Survivor Series with Bret just scraping away with the win. The feud stalled for a while until HBK went down and was out of WM, until it reignited when Austin won the rumble last throwing out Bret (he had already been thrown out, but the ref didn’t see). After the final four, Austin screwed Bret as he lost the title to Sid and basically they began to screw each other all the way to Wrestlemania. I gotta say Austin at this time was probably in my view the greatest performer we have seen his promos and in ring work were legendary. The intensity had come to a boil and a Submission match was announced for Wrestlemania, this match seemed to be totally in favour of the Hitman. They brought Ken Shamrock in to referee, which is great having an MMA guy referee a match where the only way to win, is to make your opponent quit. 

Austin’s entrance is GOAT with the glass breaking, as he strolled down with attitude. Bret came out all business which was different for the Hitman. The best part of this match is the character progression and the difference between this match and Survivor Series. At Survivor Series they had a wrestling match to find out the best wrestler, now it has got so personal this one they just wanna fight. This match starts off with no stare down but a fist fight as they brawl into the crowd, which really hadn’t been seen before at this time as the crowd goes nuts. Bret seems to get the upper hand as he brings Austin into the ring and goes after Austin’s knee obviously to set up for the sharpshooter. Btw loved that steel steps spot with Bret going shoulder first :mark: Austin’s knee is really taking a beating so he hits a desperation stunner to try and turn the momentum, this is about the time when you realise the double turn as Austin gathers a little more cheers. Bret attacks the leg again and locks in the figure four on the ring post for the first time :mark: such an awesome spot. Bret goes to grab a chair and the ring bell, and then Austin comes back with a big suplex big chair shot as the crowd goes crazy and then tries to lock in the sharpshooter. This is where the character development is amazing, Bret one of the most honourable champions in history instead of finding a way out of the hold, rakes the eyes of Austin, the double turn was in full effect because when Austin raked the eyes of Bret the crowd cheered. Austin begins bleeding here as we get one of the most famous shots in wrestling history, Austin bleeding in the sharpshooter with nowhere to go. The fans are realising what they are witnessing, Austin wasn’t a man who moaned and complained about respect or tradition and getting screwed over, he was a man who said screw it im gonna beat your ass. The little things by Austin makes this the most inspiring wrestling performance ever such as never giving up, giving the two fingers to Shamrock instead of quitting, the intensity with every move its just brilliant. Eventually Austin passes out in his own pool of blood as Shamrock awards the win to Bret. Austin lays there having never given up, unaware he practically just changed wrestling history. Bret cemented his heel turn with a post-match beat down and confrontation with Shamrock, before getting booed out of the building.

There are big matches, there are important matches, there are life changing matches and then there is Bret/Austin. This signalled a global change between the old school face/heel dynamic as a new antihero was born. You could say this is an amazing match but it’s so much more. I feel like I could go on and on about this match. Ladies and Gentlemen not only is this the greatest match in Wrestlemania History, it is also the greatest match of all time.​
******​*

*The End.*​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I wanted to have a CENAMANIA list ready to post today but unfortunately never got around to getting it finished. 

Anyways...

Cena
Taker
Brock
Shield
Miz
ADR
Dolph/Big E
Jericho
Rhodes Scholars

Those are my predicts. I'm just hoping for an entertaining show at this stage. The set looks amazing so at least they're starting out on a positive note. MOTN could be either of the top 3 matches imo. I think Rock/Cena is going to surprise a lot of people though, I just have a feeling. Roll on midnight I guess.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just to make sure, WM starts at 12 am (UK time)?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Oliver-94 said:


> Just to make sure, WM starts at 12 am (UK time)?


Correct 

And the Hall Of Fame is on Tuesday night at 12am too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It starts at 1 AM for me. I have school early tomorrow and even a test in physics which I have to study and get prepared for today but fuck it, I'll still skip the first lessons and stay up for Mania! 

Predictions:
- Cena
- HHH
- Taker
- SHIELD
- Alberto
- HELL NO
- FAN-DAN-LOL
- Miz
- Ryback
- Eight-man mixed match (don't care)


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

you spelt fandanGOAT wrong


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No, it's FAAAAAAAAAAN.....DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN....LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

Anyways, watched _Once in a Lifetime_ again and really, I still don't get most of the complaints about this match at all. Both men did all they had to do. Sure, ROCK was not in great ring shape and needed to catch his breath numerous times and the match went on a bit longer than it should've. But I can't say I didn't enjoy this one. They hit all their big moves, there were some great nearfalls and the ending told a great story leading to their rematch tonight. ★★★★

Oh, and it was funny seeing them call the spots numerous times. Cena's mouth is so blatantly moving when he has ROCK in the headlock, then ROCK can clearly be heard saying "Ready for the DDT?" when in the Bearhug plus Cena says "One more" right as he hits his first Shoulder Block in his five moves of doom. But for me, I don't really complain about something minor like this. The match did all it had to and the crowd was electrifying. Hopefully tonight they deliver again.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Rock I was kinda bad until the last 10 minutes, when the match full of nearfalls and the end was really great


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Predictions:*

- Cena
- Brock
- Taker
- Shield
- Alberto (with a Ziggler cash in)
- Ziggy & Big E
- Fandango
- Miz
- Ryback
- Funk Off (Or whatever they're called)

I'm pretty confident about all of those except for HHH/Brock. The logical answer is Brock but we all know Trips could pull one out of the bag. Getting pretty excited now though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

There just wasn't a point in Rock/Cena where I could get into it. I felt like nothing happened the first 20 minutes or so and they were riding the crowd and rareness of Rock being in the ring. And then the ending was just the average formula that you'd expect. Other than some emotion from the crowd, it really did nothing for me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll be happy if Rock/Cena is better than last year. I really didn't enjoy their first match but as long as they improve then that'll be fine. I'm not expecting anything great anyway.

Pierre, that Umaga gif in your sig is pretty damn awesome. I always loved that elevated Samoan drop he did, it always looked so brutal. Such a shame he died, I was always a fan.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rewatching Cena-Roid I and HHH-BROCK I right now.

CM Punk vs The Undertaker w/ The Streak on the line. This should tear down the fucking house in a way you would never expect it to. I'm not going into this one expecting 3 GTS's and 4 tombstones, just thought I'd clear that up. What I AM expecting is that Punk is going to try and get Taker disqualified or counted out, a stipulation that almost ALWAYS works effectively in terms of telling a story (unless it's Punk-Roid). Expect to see the running knee into the last ride here, and expect some Heyman shenanigans leading to some moments where we suspend our disbelief into thinking that Taker is going to snap and lose the streak once and for all. 

I'd bet on this being MOTN by a considerable margin and a battle of psychological merit that does nothing less and nothing more than add to Undertaker's claim of being the greatest WWF/WWE worker ever (and add to his claim of being Mr. Wrestlemania) while at the same time Punk solidifies his stance that he is the best in the world today. It's a simple story ; Taker wants to fucking MURDER Punk, Punk is going to be a weasel who tries to steal the Streak in any way, Taker must keep his calm. I fully expect this to surpass last year's match as well as every Streak match besides perhaps XXV, XXVI, and XXVII. I'm going to guess 4 and a half stars and a MOTY candidate to boot.

OH. Taker wins.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> There just wasn't a point in Rock/Cena where I could get into it. I felt like nothing happened the first 20 minutes or so and they were riding the crowd and rareness of Rock being in the ring. And then the ending was just the average formula that you'd expect. Other than some emotion from the crowd, it really did nothing for me.


I guess it depends on your favorites. Since I'm a fan of both (and was on the peak of my Cena hating period then), I was into every minute and every nearfall of the match. It can work that way for me too when involving wrestlers that I don't care about at all.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rock vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : *** 1/4*

Yeah, this is still good but I've gone down on it A TON. The crowd was into it but I'l be damned if that match didn't hold the record for most amount of dead time spent on headlocks, bearhugs and nonsense in general. Like MR. MODERATOR said, the first 20 minutes of this are just dull as all shit, and when a match needs to be carried by crowd of all things it's never a good sign. Loved the callback to Rocky's roots with the dive off of the top rope, loved a few sequences near the end, but that's where the extent of me caring for this match goes at this point.

AS FOR TONIGHT'S REMATCH. I don't want to see it, I don't think anybody wants to see it, and after just watching Rock-Cena I (yeah, I'm laying THE ROID schtick down for tonight), I'm kind of just as pissed as I was when I first knew it was going to happen. Whatever, my prediction for this match is simple ; I'm expecting it to be decent. That's all I can say for this one, as the two star barrier seems very realistic at this point. The Rock was horrible in the Punk matches but if anybody can carry this it's Cena. If Cena has an Eddie-esque match in this one where he walks the line between good and evil throughout this can actually be a CLASSIC without The Rock even having to do fuck all (just like Batista did fuck all @ No Mercy 2005).

here's the shocker though ; I think The Rock wins. I say this for a number of reasons ; one, celebrities always win in the WWE. Two, Cena builds off of this desperation which sets up Taker-Cena @ Wrestlemania thirty. Three, I JUST HAVE THIS FEELING DAMN IT. I know everyone is saying how much of a lock it is that Cena walks out with that title, but something seems fishy to me. My ultimate prediction is that we get a ton of dull bullshit leading to an awesome finish. Rock wins because Cena has a chance to cheat but doesn't take it ALA Roddy Piper at Wrestlemania VIII. I have no fucking clue where they go from there, and if The Rock is champion then I don't fucking care.

Seems like I'm missing a match..... Oh I'll get to my PERSONAL main event in a little bit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can I know what was your reaction when they told in this site that Rock/Cena II would be (video package, entrances, etc. included) 50 minutes?


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> The Rock vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXVIII) : *** 1/4*
> 
> Yeah, this is still good but I've gone down on it A TON. The crowd was into it but I'l be damned if that match didn't hold the record for most amount of dead time spent on headlocks, bearhugs and nonsense in general. Like MR. MODERATOR said, the first 20 minutes of this are just dull as all shit, and when a match needs to be carried by crowd of all things it's never a good sign. Loved the callback to Rocky's roots with the dive off of the top rope, loved a few sequences near the end, but that's where the extent of me caring for this match goes at this point.
> 
> ...


Pretty much nailed that match down to a tee. I do agree that Cena needs to borderline heel/face in this match, there needs to be some sense of desperation from Cena to make this interesting. I have no interest in seeing these two go at it again with both as full on faces.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm watching it with 3 or 4 friends tonight, so I might record the entire night for the hell of it just to see what I was like during the entire show.

I'm thinking Rock wins simply because that I truly believe in my heart that Vince values having his belt in Hollywood over the well being of his company as a whole in terms of quality. I actually wouldn't be surprised if The Rock won and vacated the title, that's how messed up the WWE are at this point. 

I also think The Rock turning heel and taking the title to Hollywood is actually an option at this point, seriously.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

:lmao That'd be WWE trolling at it's finest.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock being heel solves more problems then you probably would think ;

- Vince keeps his title in Hollywood and gets OMG MAINSTREAM EXPOSURE

- Rock can appear via satellite every week and it doesn't matter because HE'S A FUCKING HEEL.

- Allows Vince's wet dream of Rock-Cena III to come true w/ Rock as a heel this time.

It would be absolutely horrendous and unbearable, but it's more likely than Cena turning heel at this point believe it or not.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 28 review in my BLOG~!

Cheated again like I did with WM 28, as I am too tired to do completely new write ups as my views really didn't change on anything other my my rating going up slightly on one match and down on another. Gonna put some LISTS~! and shit together to post, but I'll be keeping things like top 10 WM matches and events for my WM special video that I'll be working on next week.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rock vs The Hurricane- Raw 2003​*




I love this match. I really do. While the in-ring aspect of it isn't anything special, The Rock's heel work in this match here is amazing. Seriously, the way he taunted Hurricane along with the fans was pretty great stuff. Him putting on Hurricane's cape along with trolling the fans by not taking off his right elbow pad when delivering the People's Elbow was hilarious. Hurricane also played a great underdog here, getting the fans to believe that he actually had a chance of getting the 123 on The Rock with him hitting a Shinning Wizard on The Rock along with giving him a Chokeslam. Stone Cold coming down the ring to distract The Rock while Hurricane scored the pinfall via school-boy was a nice touch on things and furthered the feud between The Rock and Stone Cold even more. To say this was a big win for Hurricane is an understatement. This win here put him over greatly with the fans. Overall, it was an average match with a few entertaining parts here and there and a great upset victory. *Rating:**1/4*



ATF said:


> Can I know what was your reaction when they told in this site that Rock/Cena II would be (video package, entrances, etc. included) 50 minutes?


My reaction:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Can I know what was your reaction when they told in this site that Rock/Cena II would be (video package, entrances, etc. included) 50 minutes?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

1999 Rejex said:


> *The Rock vs The Hurricane- Raw 2003​*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ROCK's match with Jeff Hardy is better than this IMO. Jeff Hardy hit all of his finishers (twist of fate and swanton bomb) and even hit the People's Elbow. Match was quite entertaining, so was the one you just reviewed


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Quick picks: (zomfg?)

John-boy
Undertaker
Trips
Big Show/Sheamus/Orton
Ryback
Del Rio _(w/o cash in)_
Team Hell No
Fandango
Tons of Funk
Miz _(although...well there is an anomaly to this....)_



Spoiler: the anomaly



Barrett taped defending his IC championship on an upcoming NXT taping. So...he can't lose, right? Very rarely does WWE not cover their tracks. Thinking Miz is a lock outside of this speed bump. Man, if Wade survives I'll go ape with excitement.



Pretty confident about the rest. Except for The Shield match. That's purely pessimistic. Which is weird, b/c I love Show & Sheamus. Only don't want Shield to lose on the grand stage of Mania. Kind of the same with Henry vs Ryback too. However, I'd have to be VERY naive in thinking Henry had a chance to win. He has his own program at Mania though. That alone is cool.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just posted my predictions on my blog. Same as yours Cody, aside from the Shield match. I think they'll win .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*WrestleMania 29 Predictions:*

- John Cena
- Undertaker
- Triple H
- The Shield
- Ryback
- Alberto Del Rio
- Fandango
- Team Hell No
- Rhodes Scholars and The Bella Twins
- The Miz


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BIG CAL'S TOP 74 WRESTLEMANIA MATCHES

Why top 74? Because that's how many ***+ matches I have for WM .

74... The Brainbusters Vs Strike Force - *** (WM V)
73... The British Bulldogs Vs Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine - *** (WM 2)
72... Vader, Owen Hart & The British Bulldog Vs Yokozuna, Jake Roberts & Ahmed Johnson - *** (WM XII)
71... The Big Show Vs John Cena - *** (WM XX)
70... Ted DiBiase Vs Jake Roberts - *** (WM VI)
69... David Sammartino Vs Brutus Beefcake - *** (WM 1)
68... Sgt Slaughter Vs Hulk Hogan - *** (WM VII)
67... Vince McMahon Vs Shane McMahon - *** (WM X7)
66... Christian Vs DDP - *** (WM X8)
65... Kane Vs Randy Orton - *** (WM 28)
64... Chris Jericho Vs Jimmy Snuka, Roddy Piper & Ricky Steamboat - *** (WM 25)
63... Sheamus Vs Triple H - *** (WM 26)
62... Rob Van Dam Vs William Regal - *** (WM X8)
61... Shawn Michaels Vs Vince McMahon - *** (WM 22)
60... Raven Vs The Big Show Vs Kane - *** (WM X7)
59... Finlay Vs John Bradshaw Layfield - *** (WM 24)
58... Hulk Hogan Vs The Rock - *** (WM X8)
57... Faarooq, Savio vega & Crush Vs Ahmed Johnson & The Legion of Doom - *** (WM 13)
56... The Rockers Vs Haku & Barbarian - *** (WM VII)
55... John Morrison Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs CM Punk Vs Mr Kennedy Vs MVP Vs Carlito Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4 (WM 24)
54... Triple H Vs Mick Foley Vs The Rock Vs The Big Show - ***1/4 (WM 2000)
53... Randy Orton Vs John Cena Vs Triple H - ***1/4 (WM 24)
52... CM Punk Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/4 (WM 26)
51... Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/4 (WM X7)
50... The Rockers Vs The Orient Express - ***1/4 (WM VI)
49... Rick Rude Vs Jake Roberts - ***1/4 (WM IV)
48... Ric Flair Vs Randy Savage - ***1/2 (WM VIII)
47... Randy Savage Vs Hulk Hogan - ***1/2 (WM V)
46... Matt Hardy Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2 (WM XIX)
45... Edge Vs John Cena Vs The Big Show - ***1/2 (WM 25)
44... Vader & Mankind Vs Owen Hart & The British Bulldog - ***1/2 (WM 13)
43... The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ***1/2 (WM X7)
42... Diesel Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2 (WM XI)
41... John Bradshaw Layfield Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2 (WM 22)
40... Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - ***1/2 (WM 22)
39... The Nasty Boys Vs The Hart Foundation - ***1/2 (WM VII)
38... The Big Show Vs Floyd Mayweather - ***1/2 (WM 24)
37... Jeff Hardy Vs Matt Hardy - ***1/2 (WM 25)
36... Shawn Michaels Vs Ric Flair - ***1/2 (WM 24)
35... Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros Vs Rhyno & Chris Benoit - ***3/4 (WM XIX)
34... John Cena Vs Triple H - ***3/4 (WM 22)
33... Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ***3/4 (WM VI)
32... Triple H Vs Booker T - ***3/4 (WM XIX)
31... CM Punk Vs Mark Henry Vs MVP Vs Finlay Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Kofi Kingston Vs Christian Vs Kane - ***3/4 (WM 25)
30... Bret Hart Vs Rowdy Roddy Piper - ***3/4 (WM VIII)
29... The Undertaker Vs Diesel - ***3/4 (WM XII)
28... Razor Ramon Vs Shawn Michaels - **** (WM X)
27... Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - **** (WM XIX)
26... The Undertaker Vs Kane - **** (WM XIV)
25... Chris Jericho Vs Christian - **** (WM XX)
24... Cody Rhodes Vs Rey Mysterio - **** (WM 27)
23... The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****1/4 (WM X7)
22... Chris Jericho Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4 (WM XIX)
21... Randy Savage Vs Ricky Steamboat - ****1/4 (WM III)
20... The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ****1/4 (WM 2000)
19... The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4 (WM X8)
18... Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 (WM XX)
17... The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/4 (WM 21)
16... Randy Savage Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ****1/2 (WM VII)
15... The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 (WM X7)
14... Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 22)
13... Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Chris Benoit Vs Kane Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 21)
12... The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 (WM XIX)
11... Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 22)

And the top 10 is... coming later in my WM Special Video . Obviously it could change slightly depending on what happens tonight .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

*WrestleMania 29 Predictions:*

John Cena
Undertaker
HHH
The Shield
Ryback
Alberto Del Rio (with a cash in)
Y2J
Ziggler and Big E
Tons of Funk (I'm taking a break during this match)
The Miz


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As i've convinced myself Trips is winning, i just hope they top the SS match and just go all fucking out, just have a god damn war please.

Just hope it isn't a damp squib. Hopefully we get another crazy spot from Brock too.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I watched Rock/Cena 1 again and it made me even less excited for the rematch. There is no way they will have a better match and the story doesn't even come close. Cena turning heel would be the only hope and that will not happen.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

If Cena does end up turning heel then I'm pretty sure this forum will explode. It would be cool to see (the heel turn that is) but I really don't think it will happen. 

What does everyone think the match order will be?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I would make the match order

Del Rio/Swagger
Jericho/Fandango
Term Hell No/Ziggler & Big E
Mixed Tag
Shield/Orton, Sheamus & Show
Ryback/Henry
Lesnar/Triple H
Punk/Taker
Rock/Cena

Theirs will be different though. I expect the mixed tag to be inserted in between main matches.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Personally, I'd have:

Hell No/Ziggy & Big E
Jericho/Fandango
Del Rio/Swagger
Ryback/Henry
Shield/OrtonShowSheamus
Punk/Taker
Mixed Tag
Lesnar/HHH
Cena/Rock


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cena
Taker Claus
Brock (hope Im wrong though)
Shield (with Orton heel turn)
Ryback
ADR (with a Dolph cash in)
Y2J
Ziggy and Big E but by DQ (Hell No retain)
Tons of Funk 
Barrett


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Rock being heel solves more problems then you probably would think ;
> 
> - Vince keeps his title in Hollywood and gets OMG MAINSTREAM EXPOSURE
> 
> ...


It would also be a better dynamic seeing as their would be a heel. Plus, everyone seems to agree rock plays a better heel. A heel Hollywood Rock comeback wouldn't be all that bad to be honest.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Spoiler: IC title match



Miz has won. So he is 4-0 at Wrestlemania even though he has lost (WM 25) but WWE choose to ignore that


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WreeestleMAAAAANIAAA!!! Look out for a long ass in depth reviews with STARZ after the show. 

Orton heel turn? Cena heel turn??? Ziggler cash in!?!?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Wrestlemania!!!!!!!

Feels so weird watching it when I woke up 10 minutes ago :lmao

Starts at 9 in the morning here, hoping for some epic matches and swerves 

The Shield :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Good thing the world heavyweight title match hasn't opened the show :clap


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Goodness gracious, The Shield can not do any wrong. That match was fantastic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show match was good but felt way too short and WHY THE FUCK DID THEY TURN SHOW HEEL AGAIN? I really hope Orton is remaining face for a match with Lesnar or something. Getting bored of him doing absolutely nothing.

2-0 so far.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Shield went over (Y)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

To be fair, Big Show never really turned face. Just a tweener IMO. 

Anyway, the only positive in this is that at least there is still hope for Cena's heel turn. I doubt WWE would turn two top stars heel in one night (Orton and Cena).


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That Shield match was solid, surprised it went on first but The Shield won so I'm very happy.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Holy fuck Henry won :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Henry winning is a huge surprise. Like a massive surprise. They must have some big plans for him still because all signs pointed to a Ryback win.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now I am confident that Cena's first feud after Rock involving the title is against Henry. I actually liked that match, but I would have liked Ryback to get the victory so that he can keep at least some of his momentum


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't agree with Henry winning. I'm not Ryback's biggest fan but now he has lost 5 PPVs in a row. They should have let Ryback win this match and then let Henry attack him after the match which would have continued the feud.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Stars~ so far:

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - **1/2
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - *


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, even as a big Henry fan Ryback probably should have won that match. Like I said though, perhaps big things ahead for Henry. I'd be very happy to see a Cena/Henry feud for the title as funnyfaces suggested.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Whoever decided it would be a good idea to insert a musical performance in the middle of a wrestling show needs to put down. It's so out of place.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - **1/2
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - *
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - **3/4
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - **1/4

Nothing exciting so far. Expected more from the six man. Time restrictions at fault.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Whoever decided it would be a good idea to insert a musical performance in the middle of a wrestling show needs to put down. It's so out of place.


Agreed. It should have opened the show if anything. 

Ratings so far:

Show/Sheamus/Orton vs Sheild: ***
Ryback vs Henry: *
Team Hell NO vs Ziggler/Big E: **1/4
Fandango vs Chris Jericho: **1/2

Del Rio/Swagger up next. Not looking forward to it at all. fpalm


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

LOL at a Swagger jobber entrance.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Shield vs Orton-Sheamus-Show - ★★¾ (fucking stupid finish)
Ryback vs Mark Henry - ★¼ (Shit finish and boring with a million bearhugs)
Team Hell No vs Ziggler & Big E - Missed this one
Fandango vs Chris Jericho - ★★½

So far, the match quality has been underwhelming. My predictions are 4-1.

EDIT: ★★ for Del Rio/Swagger. 5-1 and going strong!

EDIT II: ★★★★ for Taker/Punk. Great match, nearfalls and everything. 6-1 motherfuckaaa!


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Miz/Barrett - *
Shield/SF - **3/4
Ryback/Henry - *
Hell No/Ziggle E - **1/2
Jericho/Fandango - **1/4
ADR/Swagger - **1/4

Whole undercard has underwhelmed. No time.

Punk/Taker time :mark: ~!~!

Edit: ****1/2

Outstanding match. Taker brings Mania to Mania YET AGAIN. PUNK+!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk and Taker with a great match. On first viewing I'll give it *****1/4*. Great stuff, expected that kind of performance from those two though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

With a few friends but I had to grab my phone and say something. 

GOD DAMN. Punk-Taker : ***** 1/2* 

4th best streak match ever.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Definitely giving Taker/Punk the full 5, that was the best storytelling I have ever seen in a match


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fucking awesome match delivered by Punk and Taker. Seriously, hats off to them. 

Rating: ****1/2


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Great match as expected, Punk going the cutthroat gesture was GOAT

On first view it's *****1/2*

unk2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Amazing match, and may very well be match of the year. *****1/2*


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

CM Punk had to follow four of the greatest matches of all time against the Undertaker, and he did a fine damn job. This guy is a true pro. Incredible match. Undertaker will be 89 and I will still be confident that he can provide us with the MOTY.

Ratings so far:

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - **1/2
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - *
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - **3/4
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - **1/4
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - Didn't really watch.
*CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****1/2* - MOTY so far.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

★★★★½ for Punk/Taker :mark:

EXCELLENT match (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm sitting here in a really fucking emotional state right now, Brock winning is best for business but fuck it, the game isn't ready to be over yet, no fucking way. So I'm going to rock this 'tremble before the hammer' shirt and cheer on the king of kings.

This place was going crazy for Punk-Taker though, holy shit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shocked they're doing these two matches back to back. but my god Taker/Punk was brilliant. Punk's antics & faces were :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Fuck everything, I'm still going to mark for DA GAME in this one.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Lesnar and Triple H have to follow that. If their Summerslam match is any indication, they won't be able to. But, I'm looking forward to the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HOLY SHIT, Lesnar looks so lean. He's gonna fuck some shit up.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Lesnar looks fucking jacked!!!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He looks better than ever. TWO EIGHTY SIX!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

What was that shit on Triple H's stomach? Was I seeing things?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

And The Game continues! I was pretty happy with that match, though there was a 5-8 minute dull period in the middle. Great start and end though. I'll give it ****3/4* on first view.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> What was that shit on Triple H's stomach? Was I seeing things?


Hahaha. Pretty sure it was from a fire extinguisher. Tough match to rate, but it was better than their Summerslam encounter. Lesnar looked like he broke his arm & shoulder, busted a rib, and fucked up his face.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

EDIT


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

It was better than their garbage Summerslam match, but that's not to say it was any good. I thought it was pretty bad. Very slow, much like Summerslam, and not very entertaining. I did like the finish, though. 

This is similar to HHH/Orton from WM25. Having to follow an emotionally draining and terrific match left it with a dead crowd.

So far:

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - **1/2
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - *
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - **3/4
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - **1/4
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - Didn't really watch.
CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****1/2 - MOTY so far.
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - **3/4


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

God knows what you were expecting from HHH/Lesnar if you think it's too slow. Tip, don't go watching matches from pre-1990. Expecting them to fly around the ring? Their pacing was fine for the match they had.

Would give it ****. The finish left a bad taste in my mouth, since I fully expected a Lesnar victory. But he took an absolute battering, the only thing missing was a plane to crush him to death.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> God knows what you were expecting from HHH/Lesnar if you think it's too slow. Tip, don't go watching matches from pre-1990. Expecting them to fly around the ring? Their pacing was fine for the match they had.


Nah, I wasn't expecting them to fly around the ring. It was a slow match, I don't think that can even really be disputed but okay. 

The match was actually exactly what I was expecting.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

It can be disputed, since the pace hurts your opinion of the match. It was never going to be fluid. 

Psychologically, it came across excellently. Sure, the pacing hurt it, but if you were expecting it, I don't think that counts as a discreditor. I'll have to rewatch it to give it a proper right up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey guys, this main event sucks.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey guys, this main event sucks.


Yes, yes it does.

MINUS FIVE STARS.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey guys, this main event sucks.


It is terrible thus far. The Rock gassed after a Samoan Drop, Cena seems a bit bored.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I wholeheartedly agree, just awful so far. Not expecting it to get any better either.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Agree with everyone above this match sucks so far.

:cena3


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

What the fuck are they doing. Talk about overkill.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

That has to be close to the record of most finishers ever.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHA.






That was so bad. How many AA & Rock Bottom attempts? You counter that into a ddt!? WOOOOOOW...


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Wow.....that was awful. The definition of a finisher fest


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Absolutely dreadful match. It was basically a slow opening with rest holds, followed by a finisher fest. It really was total shit.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Final Ratings:

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - **1/2
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - *
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - **3/4
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - **1/4
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - Didn't really watch.
CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****1/2 - MOTY so far.
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - **3/4
The Rock vs. John Cena - *


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Somewhere, KingofKings is wanking himself to death

:cena3


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Fun PPV. Liked it a lot better than last year.

Expecting a lot of irrational statements towards alot of matches, more so the main event, as usual though.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Miz/Barrett - *
Shield/SF - **3/4
Ryback/Henry - *
Hell No/Ziggle E - **3/4
Jericho/Fandango - **1/2
ADR/Swagger - **1/4
Punk/Taker - ****1/2
Trips/Brock - ***1/2
Cena/Rock - **1/4

Cena/Rock was worse than last year. Slow, plodding, rest-holds, finisher-fest.

Taker saved Wrestlemania once again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, I should have been betting real money for tonight. My predictions came out 8-1 with Mark Henry being the only thing stopping it being perfect.

Triple H vs Lesnar - ★★★¼ (Way too slow with a dead crowd. Felt too much like SummerSlam except the ending when Trips started using the Kimura. The ending was nice although Lesnar should've won but dead crowd brought it down)

The ROCK vs Cena - ★★★ (I don't wanna be too negative about this. The first half felt like a carbon copy of last year without the electricity and then it became a finisher fest. What puts this on 3 is the constant teasing. They really had me thinking something happens plus some spots like Cena redoing his mistake from last year only to lure The ROCK was awesome. Finish was anticlimactic and flat but meh, I'll take it.)

Disappointing Mania due to the lack of heel turns. If Cena didn't turn, there's no excuse for not turning Orton heel instead of making Show a heel again. Now I gotta get some sleep but hat's off to Taker and Punk for putting on the MOTN.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ratings:

Shield vs Super Friends - ***
Ryback vs Mark Henry - *1/2
Team Hell No vs Ziggy & Big E - **3/4
Fandango vs Jericho - **
Del Rio vs Swagger - **3/4
CM Punk vs Taker - ****1/4
HHH vs Lesnar - ***3/4
Rock vs Cena - *

That's obviously subject to change after a second viewing. Overall, pretty poor event. Punk/Taker definitely match of the night. Awful main event that I can't see getting any better on re-watches.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Fun PPV. Liked it a lot better than last year.
> 
> Expecting a lot of irrational statements towards alot of matches and the show as a whole as usual though.


I agree it was enjoyable, and people will always overreact. It's human nature. Final ratings seem to shape up for;

Shield vs SuperGroup V2 ***
Ryback vs Mark Henry *
Hell No vs Ziggler/Langston **1/4
Fandango vs Chris Jericho **1/4
Alberto del Rio vs Jack Swagger ***
CM Punk vs the Undertaker ****1/4
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar ****
The Rock vs John Cena *

Will give it a gloss over tomorrow evening or so.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Shield Tag - ***3/4
Ryback/Henry - *3/4
Tag Titles - **1/2
Jericho/Fandango - **1/2
Swagger/Del Rio - *1/2
Punk/Taker - ****1/4
Lesnar/HHH - ***3/4
Rock/Cena - **1/2

Quite underwhelming for Wrestlemania, but was a decent event nonetheless.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

disagree. I enjoyed it

ending was anticlimatic but i liked john playing this clever

not the best mania ever but hell, i had fun


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*My WrestleMania ratings and review:*

The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus and The Big Show - *****
Ryback vs Mark Henry - **1/4*
Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston - ***1/2*
Fandango vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2*
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - ***3/4*
CM Punk vs The Undertaker - ******
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - ****3/4*
John Cena vs The Rock ***

I was very underwhelmed by this show, the first half of the show might as well of not happened. 

The Shield puts on their worst match to date, but it's still one of the better matches of the night. 

Ryback/Henry was to slow and dull, went on longer than it should, and the wrong guy won. Highlight being Ryback shellshocking Henry, I was very surprised he was able to do that.

Hell No vs Ziggler and Big E was whatever, I liked the tease spot at the start with Ziggler kissing AJ and then Bryan kicking him. Big E got too much in-ring time, and they didn't give Bryan and Ziggler a chance to put on a good match, I didn't really care about the result as I was hoping for a Ziggler cash-in later in the night, but it didn't happen... :/

Fandango/Jericho wasn't really good. A unnecessary big ass entrance for Johnny Curtis and the match ends in a roll-up...

Undertaker vs CM Punk was the match of the night, and a very good match, but in comparison to other streak matches, it wasn't close to the best. I got into the match very much surprisingly after I had virtually no hype for it after their terrible feud, and it delivered well. 

Triple H/Brock Lesnar was a decent encounter and it was very good for the first half of the match, but the dead crowd and all the Kimura Lock focus during the end part of the match really brought down things for me. I was dissapointed to see no blood. Triple H winning was also unnecessary, but I liked the finish with the Triple H sledgehammer shot and pedigree on the steel steps.

The Rock vs John Cena was AWFUL. I was so bored in the first 10 minutes that I turned on my laptop for the first time and came on here. It wen't too long, was so dull for the first part of the match then turned into a over the top finisher fest in the second part. Cena wins in perfectly clean fashion to become a 11 time WWE Champion, and Cena and Rock shake ends while the New York crowd boo them in a terrible but very predictable finish. Worse than their WrestleMania 28 match easily.

Overall this WrestleMania gets a 4/10 from me. 2 good matches and one decent one, and that was it, the rest of the matches were below average. Overall poor crowd. Lackluster announcing. And no Ziggler cash-in, which I was most looking forward to happening fucking sucked. Just like last's year WrestleMania I end up feeling letdown by the show honestly, could of been much better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Wrestlemania 29

*The Shield vs. Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Big Show - ***

Mark Henry vs. Ryback - * 1/2

*WWE Tag Team Championship
*Team Hell No (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston - ** 1/2

Chris Jericho vs. Fandango - ** 3/4

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Jack Swagger - ** 1/2

The Undertaker vs. CM Punk - **** 1/4

*No Holds Barred - Career Threating Match
*Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - *** 1/2

*WWE Championship
*The Rock (c) vs. John Cena - *

*Overall: 6.5/10*

- Shield to open the show? Don't think anyone predicted that. The only thing on my mind here is an Orton heel turn, but there's a match that has to happen first.  Odd seeing Big Show play FIP, that doesn't get to happen too often. Gets good after the hot tag, Sheamus cleans house on his own. Usual late-match chaos from The Shield was good but where does the stuff with Big Show go? Aren't we kind of just taking a step backwards...

- Henry tried to put some structure into his match, but Ryback's terrible. HENRY GOT THE WIN!!! So awesome. 

- Tag Title match was a super fun sprint for the time it got. Ziggy & Biggy looked pretty great, not gonna lie. Good stuff. DID YOU SEE THE CROWD CHANTING YES!? Holy shit that was crazy.

- Jericho/Fandango was very good in the first several minutes but they tried to get a little too fancy in the late stages and sort of botched the finish. Still a very impressive debut for Johnny Curtis and Jericho looked good putting him over.

- Del Rio/ Swagger wasn't anything special. Couple fancy lookin moves but no real substance to it. Finish was a little weird too.

- KICKASS performance for Punk's theme song, no joke. Holy shit, anyone see Punk's reaction when Taker's music hit? This guy is amped and ready. Bell rings, Punk ducks some punches and... slaps the Undertaker!? Are you fucking NUTS!? This is gonna be good. I'm not gonna lie, I thought Punk legit made this match. His facial expressions, body language, taunts and gestures were all just amazing and brought life to a crowd watching with wide eyes. The dualing chants of CM PUNK & UNDERTAKER were so awesome and it really shows how the fanbase is sort of changing. Despite the announce table not breaking, the elbow spot is always amazing & looked REALLY painful on Punk's end. The picture where Taker sits up while he's in the Anaconda Vice & they're staring eye to eye is incredible, such a piece of art. The sequence where it was GTS into the rebound tombstone (which was of course a nearfall) was breathtaking. Thought it was legit over there. They managed to top themselves with the nearfall on the urn spot, that was even more amazing. Great back-and-forth sequence to end the match too. Punk just looked so good in this. Beautiful stuff.

- Lesnar looks ridiculously lean here, guy is a BEAST. Really have no expectations for this match cause I wasn't the biggest fan of their Summerslam encounter. Better outing here, but what the hell's up with these guys and repetitiveness in their matches? Lesnar's entire offense was belly-to-back or german suplexes, like 5 of them. I was about to get SERIOUSLY pissed if they had Brock tapout, but luckily he didn't. That sequence was really great... until they repeated it another 2 or 3 times. I was actually pretty surprised by the finish & honestly idk why Triple H won unless he's actually gonna start wrestling again... but whatever. Brock has gone downhill since the Cena match. I don't think he's familiar with timing and pacing in matches anymore, he just does whatever the fuck he wants. haha

- Rock/Cena II. Yeah, it was really bad. Middle portion was nothing but rest holds and slowness. Last like 10 or 15 minutes was a total finisher fest, and a BAD one. Only reason I'm even giving it one star is because Cena's facial expressions and mannerisms screamed heel & the teased finish to last year's match was so well done. Rest was ass. Punk/Rock from EC was about 4x better than that pile of piss.

- Talk about a really, really average PPV. The entire undercard was just "decent" and instantly forgettable. One to two match show for sure, based on your opinion of the Lesnar/HHH match.​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rough ratings:

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - ***1/2
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - *1/2
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - **
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - **
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - **1/2
CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - **1/2
The Rock vs. John Cena - *

Not impressive STARS wise, but outside of the last 2 matches I enjoyed everything. Shocked at Henry winning, he lost me money dammit!


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Well, Punk/Undertaker stole the show easily. Great match. Insane counters, great expressions. Maybe had the most atmosphere in terms of crowd reaction. Undertaker has had the best match on the show for the SEVENTH STRAIGHT YEAR! UnderGOAT

Rock/Cena 1st half sucked, but I did buy some of the new falls near the end so it was okay. Major lols at the crowd booing the "passing the torch" moment.

HHH V Lesnar..... Crowd took ALOT away from it, which is a shame because there was good stuff in it, but the crowd either was exhausted from the streak match or didn't buy into HHH's retirement.

Okay WM. Probably in the middle of the patch in terms of quality.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - ****3/4* (needs rewatch, but I loved it)
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - ****
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - ***3/4*
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - ***3/4*
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - *****
CM Punk vs. Undertaker - *****1/2*
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - ****3/4*
The Rock vs. John Cena - ***1/2*


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Show/Sheamus/Orton vs Sheild: ***
Ryback vs Henry: *
Team Hell NO vs Ziggler/Big E: **1/4
Fandango vs Chris Jericho: **1/2
Del Rio/Swagger: **3/4
CM Punk vs The Undertaker: ****1/4
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar: ***3/4
The Rock vs Cena: ***

Pretty good WrestleMania. Nothing special, just _good_.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Will there be a rematch at Extreme Rules? ROCK still has rematch clause.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Oh yeah I left out one thing....

OH MY GOD WAS UNDERTAKERS ENTRANCE FUCKING EPIC :mark::mark::mark:

Might be his best ever IMO


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just saw someone rate Rock/Cena *****1/2* :lol

And fuck yes Takers entrance was awesome.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Miz/Barrett ~ **1/2
Shield 6 man ~ ***1/2
Henry/Ryback ~ **
Hell No/Ziggy & Biggy ~ **3/4
Jericho/Fanny ~ **3/4
Swagger/Del Rio ~ **3/4
Punk/Taker ~ ***3/4
Lesnar/HHH ~ ***3/4
Rock/Cena ~ ***1/2

Thought the second half of Rock/Cena was really fun. *shrugs* Decent Mania. Can't remember the last time I didn't have a single **** match for a Mania though.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Upon first viewing:

Show/Sheamus/Orton vs SHIELD ***

Ryback vs Henry: *1/2 (the 1/2 for Henry winning)

Team Hell NO vs Ziggler/Big E: **1/2

Fandango vs Chris Jericho: **1/2

:delrio vs Swagger: ***

CM Punk vs The Undertaker: ****1/4 match of the night by miles 

Triple H vs Brock Lesnar: ***1/2 

The Rock vs Cena: ***1/4 

I liked some of the counters in the title match but yuck to like 75% of the match 

Overall enjoyable but I had really low expectations going in...


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 29 review*
*First Take*

Shield vs Orton/Show/Sheamus - **** 1/4*
Ryback vs Henry - ** 1/2*
Team Friendship vs Ziggler/BigE - *** 1/4*
Jericho vs Fandango - *** 1/2*
Del rio vs Swagger - *** 3/4*
Taker vs Punk - ***** 1/2* :mark:
HHH vs Brock - **** 1/2*
Rock vs Cena ***

An overall decent undercard, with everything getting under 10 minutes. This card was going to live and die by the main events and lucky that Taker/Punk was a classic. The main event was just trash in my eyes and it always leaves a sour taste in my mouth when the main event doesn't deliver. Overall a fun card, with Taker/Punk as a much watch and I'm sure will be around when we talk of MOTY in December. No swerves or turns was depressing but it was too be expecting as WWE isn't willing to pull the trigger. A decent PPV though and one you certainly have to watch at least once. 

Dat John Cena back on top of the world. 

:cena3


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lol I totally forgot Swagger V Del Rio even happened.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Punk/Taker was a ton of fun. Really well structured match with a great atmosphere. Awesome counters... the whole shebang. MOTY to date.

Didn't really feel like Wrestlemania otherwise. I enjoyed most of the undercard but it wasn't anything memorable. 


The Shield had another good showing - well below their batting average - but good enough. 

Tag Titles was a fun sprint. Disappointing to see Bryan/Ziggler get such little time together.

Cena/Rock was weaksauce. Not horrible but these guys should be doing so much more with 30 minutes and a Wrestlemania main-event. Bad pacing, boring, plodding, poorly built finisher-fest. The callback to last year's mistake was a glimmer of light in a dark abyss.

Trips/Brock was a similar match to their SS affair, with an even less involved crowd (somehow) - is it just me or does Trips get A LOT of that nowadays? Good enough, but nothing overly amazing. BROCK on the other hand = STUPENDOUS, MARVELOUS & ASTONISHING all wrapped into one.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Hmm, am I the only one that like Brock/Trips better than Taker/Punk?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Live Ratings (typing on my phone on train, so bare with me. I'll post more later):

Shield match- ***3/4
Ryback/Henry- *
Tag Titles- **
Jericho/Fandango- **1/4
Taker/Punk- ****1/2-****3/4
Lesnar/HHH- **
Rock/Cena- *1/2


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Shield/Friendship - **1/2
Henry/Ryback - **
Hell No/Zigston - **1/2
Fandango/Jericho - **1/2
Del Rio/Swagger - ***
Undertaker/Punk - ***3/4
Triple H/Brock Lesnar - ***1/2
Cena/Rock - **


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Wait, were there even any backstage segments or interviews during the show? Odd.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Wait, were there even any backstage segments or interviews during the show? Odd.


Noticed that too.. so odd they cut out Rhodes Scholars match and didn't have a promo video right before the main event. Really bad timing tonight I gotta say


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™;16483802 said:


> Hmm, am I the only one that like Brock/Trips better than Taker/Punk?


Probably not the only person but you're in the minority... 

Triple h and lesnar was pretty sweet but never really felt like it hit the levels of brutality it could have...

Whereas Punk and Taker worked a tremendous match without the benefit of having a stipulation other than it being a "streak" match

Edit: gotta give :heyman credit too as always he was great in both matches but added a lot to the taker punk match


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Tim Legend said:


> Probably not the only person but you're in the minority...
> 
> Triple h and lesnar was pretty sweet but never really felt like it hit the levels of brutality it could have...
> 
> Whereas Punk and Taker worked a tremendous match without the benefit of having a stipulation other than it being a "streak" match


Yeah I figured. I just can't get into a Streak match unless there is something I haven't seen before and at no point did I think Punk was going to win. I was more hooked on the retirement stip than the streak which is kinda sad.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Haven't watched any Mania yet, But i'm glad that Taker got MOTN again. I think he might beat Shawn for best matches at WM and offically claim title of "Mr. Wrestlemania".


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Here's what I put in the Mania thread.



THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> Time to be a GEEK and post some stars.
> 
> *The Shield vs. Sheamus, Orton and Big Show* - Probably the weakest match The Shield has been involved in so far, but still a decent match. Ending felt a tad anticlimactic but still, not going to complain. **3/4
> 
> ...


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I was pretty satisfied with Del Rio/Swagger


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE...

CHAMP...

IS...

HEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

:cena3 :cena3 :cena3 :cena3 :cena3 :cena3 :cena3


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

Nice of you guys finally getting on the CeNation bandwagon.

I recall the exact moment I began to love John Cena. WrestleMania 22, making Triple H submit. I have been a Cena fan since and have never/will never stop.

Anyways, I really liked Cena/Rock II and thought it was superior to the first match. Rock seems to fare much better in rematches. (Rock/Punk II > Rock/Punk I)

I've noticed the last two major John Cena DVDs didn't include a single WrestleMania match. WWE can rectify this by making a DVD set dedicated entirely to John Cena's WrestleMania moments and matches, from WM 20 all the way to WM 30 next year. Hopefully Cena finally gets that match with Undertaker that everyone is waiting for. I would totally buy that DVD.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> THE...
> 
> CHAMP...
> 
> ...


You got stars for the show or are you too busy partying?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena got his "HUGE" Wrestlemania moment tonight, that's what matters.

FIRST RATINGZ :

Shield vs Orton/Show/Sheamus : **** 1/2*
Ryback vs Mark Henry : ***
Kane/Bryan vs Big E/DOLPH : *N/A*
Chris Jericho vs FandanGOAT : *N/A*
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger : *** 3/4*
CM Punk vs The Undertaker : ***** 1/2 *
Triple H vs BROCK LESNAR : **** 1/2*
The Roid vs John Cena : ** 3/4*

Never got a chance to see the two N/A matches, will in depth review it tomorrow as there's just too much flowing through my head as of right now to even comment :lol.

PS: PARTYING HARD TONIGHT. ROID'S REIGN OF TERROR IS OVER + THE CHAMP IS HERE + THE GAME ISN'T OVER.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena got his "HUGE" Wrestlemania moment tonight, that's what matters.
> 
> FIRST RATINGZ :
> 
> ...


Dat rating on Punk/Taker, :clap. Better than Punk/Cena from RAW earlier this year?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

They did a great job of teasing spots Undertaker usually does but probably can't now (Dive to the outside of the ring, Oldschool) instead of ignoring them. Heyman on the sidelines was pure entertainment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nah I wouldn't put it above Punk/Cena but it's a close, CLOSE number two at this point. 

It's at this point that I'm going to spurt out random thoughts in all of my posts such as this one ; Mark Henry won so he could look believable in a feud with Cena post Mania. I'm pretty much 90 percent sure that it'll be Cena-Henry at Extreme Rules or Payback depending on what happens, and it should be AWESOME.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer only reason Henry went over is to set up a title match in the future with Cena, which I'm all for something fresh like that. I wanna see what direction the Shield takes next :mark: 

Ending up watching Taker/Punk again and it stays at ***** 1/2* just above Punk/Cena on raw.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

So the last five streak matches:

1. Wrestlemania 25 vs. Shawn Michaels - *****
2. Wrestlemania 26 vs. Shawn Michaels - *****
3. Wrestlemania 29 vs. CM Punk - ****1/2
4. Wrestlemania 28 vs. Triple H - ****1/2
5. Wrestlemania 27 vs. Triple H - ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Punk>>>>>>>>>>>Punk/Cena Raw this year IMO.

And on Taker's last 5 streak matches:

1) WM25 (*****)
2) WM26 (****1/2)
3) WM29 (****1/2)
4) WM28 (****)
5) WM27 (***1/2)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK-GAME disappointed me big time.

I mean I thought it was really good, but everything felt so damn melodramatic I fucking HATED the ending too. The submission false finish was fantastic but what was the point if Trips was just going to take it a minute later?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> BROCK-GAME disappointed me big time.
> 
> I mean I thought it was really good, but everything felt so damn melodramatic I fucking HATED the ending too. The submission false finish was fantastic but what was the point if Trips was just going to take it a minute later?


The crowd certainly didn't help either, second time a crowd was next to dead with Triple H this year.


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

I thought it put over Brock Lesnar as a beast that is extremely hard to put down. A normal man would have tapped out but Brock resisted the Kimura like three times! 

Steel steps are clearly his kryptonite.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The crowd was trash for Brock/Game. I would blame it just went after Taker/Punk but the buildup was lackluster and even their Summerslam match was treated the same way. Happy for Brock to move on now and hopefully face someone different, even though I'm hoping for Brock/Cena title match down the track.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The good news is that in 10 years from now we'll have CORPORATE GAME running wild like a BOSS.

The BAD news is that Lesnar's credibility is 100 percent DEAD.

The.... WHATEVER news is that I think there's going to be a third match with Lesnar going over, that's probably where the name "PAYBACK" comes from actually.


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

Nah bro, all Brock needs to do is F-5 a dude and break his arm and he looks like a badass again. Honestly, I could see him beating John Cena later this year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://shop.wwe.com/John-Cena-"The-...White&start=1&cgid=superstar-current-johncena

Just bought that shirt, so whenever things are bad in wrestling I can look and remember the time that The Roid lost to John Cena in the main event of Wrestlemania :lol.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

brock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I wish I wasn't such a TRIPS mark so that I could complain about BORK losing.

In all fairness though, I highly doubt he gives a single fuck if he wins or loses, as long as he's out there reppin' Jimmy Johns every chance he gets he'll be fine.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Brock with a Beanie :mark:


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Brock is getting paid millions just to wreck shit and do his signature taunt. 

Dude has it made


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

*sigh* yeah 

it just bummed me out. literally all of my other picks to win won though, so i guess i was spoiled in that regard


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I almost RAGED after the main event even though Cena won. When they played The Rock's music man I thought to myself "we're not ending another fucking Wrestlemania with The fucking Rock on top again are we? HE JUST LOST!", then they did the whole end of the ramp moment and Cena's music hit so everything was cool.

WRESTLEMANIA ENDED WITH CENA SCREAMING "THE CHAMP IS HEREEE!" .... Does it get any sweeter than that :lol?

I'll give The Rock this much though ; despite torturing me with shitty promos and shitty matches for the last two years, tonight was the night that he gave John Cena his moment and elevated him (kayfabe) to the likes of Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, and of course The Rock himself. I don't ever want to see him wrestle again for as long as I live but I can somewhat forgive Rocky for his horrendous performances if his ultimate goal was to get Cena over on his level in terms of kayfabe greatness.

The match was a complete clusterfuck and one of the more terrible Wrestlemania main events, but the moment was what ultimately mattered.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I went into the match rooting for Cena but after seeing how absolutely awful the match was, neither one of them deserve any praise or cheering. It's all about CM GOAT.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^it was a fine match IMO. 3 or 4 snowflakes or somewhere in between.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The amount of finishers that were hit (let alone ATTEMPTED, that's a whole nother story) was just ridiculous. The finish felt so random, not to mention how they had all the counters and reversals in a row that lead to a DDT from Rock... really? That late into the match? Plus the first half was outrageously slow and loaded with rest holds that were meaningless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CM GOAT.

Punk deserves a Wrestlemania main event before he retires in all honesty. It's pretty much a dead LOCK that he won't next year, but look for BROCK vs Punk to be a big match up come Wrestlemania XXXI. Cena has fucking FIVE Wrestlemania main events, Orton has one, Edge has one, HAITCH has six, Rock has five, FUCKING JIZ HAS ONE.... But yet Punk doesn't have one? Come on WWE.

Yeah that DDT spot was very ANGLE ESQUE, if only he did it with MOAR INTENSITY!*


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

you think Brock's sticking around to Mania 31?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He signed a deal that runs through XXXI the day after the Royal Rumble. THANK GOD.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The amount of finishers that were hit (let alone ATTEMPTED, that's a whole nother story) was just ridiculous. The finish felt so random, not to mention how they had all the counters and reversals in a row that lead to a DDT from Rock... really? That late into the match? Plus the first half was outrageously slow and loaded with rest holds that were meaningless.


Oh. Well I liked it. Fun to expereience.

I don't understand the critique of a counter into a DDT? Surely whatever works to get him on the ground since everything else is being countered?...

The swapping finishers was cool. That whole sequence from the time Cena held on to the ropes... brilliant.



KingOfKings said:


> He signed a deal that runs through XXXI the day after the Royal Rumble. THANK GOD.


Oh, awesome. Makes me wonder if we don't get it before then. What are the projections looking like for Summerslam and beyond then, in terms of machups


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Punk got far bigger positive reactions than both Cena & Rock did tonight iirc. The guy put on on a FUCKING SHOW and did more than hold his own against Taker. He's quite honestly the total package and easily the most well rounded guy in the company. 

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm gettin queer but he was on a whole nother level tonight.

EDIT: Yeah I loved the tease of last year's finish. That was brilliant and warranted me giving it some kind of rating. haha. Also the ddt spot didn't make sense to me because we'd already seen it earlier and it felt like a step backwards to go from AA to Rock Bottom to People's Elbow and then revert back to a simple DDT, know what I mean?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

His contract says so.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock/Cena was a bad match but a good experience (if that makes any sense) for myself.

I cared so much about who was going to win that I held my breath on every single near fall, even though I knew in my heart that the match really wasn't that great. Everything in the last few minutes besides that fucking DDT was spot on and I enjoyed it shamefully as it was some of the most gratuitous finisher FESTING I've ever seen in my life :lol.

NO DOUBT Punk's the best guy in the company. Hell, I'd argue that he's been the best in the company since he turned in 2009 believe it or not. I remember being so disappointed in him when he was first trying to adapt to the WWE style and things weren't really working out for him because I was a huge fan. When he won that first world title, I marked the fuck out because one of my all time favorite guys won a world title. If there was ever a guy who could over take Triple H's position as my favorite performer ever (even though it's basically impossible) it would be Punk ; I'd seriously put him in the top 10 all around performers in WWE history EASILY.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The main event was just straight up awful, would have to be in the top 5 worst main events in Wm history. The true definition of finisher overload, people though Punk/Cena was bad at NOC this is just on another level. 

Surely Punk is gonna get his main event at XXXI since I can't see him getting it next year, with what could be on tap. Punk is on another level to every other full timer. Looking for Punk/Brock this summer :mark: 

I love dat John Boys selling of a DDT however 

:cena3


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

what, seriously? not a WOAT ME condenter at all... so how does rock/cena ii compare to their first match?

i maintain cena was the most over at mania. the guy just wasn't liked  all it took was a mention of the name, or his face showing up on the big screen to get huge boos from everyone.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just watched Punk/Taker, will finish the rest of the event later. The UnderGOAT once again stole the show with this great, great match. Let me begin by saying, The whole story interlined with the match itself gave it a much more personal feel, Punk's heel tactics and impressions are worthy of an oscar IMHO and Taker GOATing as usual with his precise striking, wrestling skills and his top notch storytelling. *****1/2* is probably my first watch rating.

Oh and Punk's demented head was awesome while he was doing Taker's signature tombstone taunt:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Last years was far superior, it was rest holds for 15 minutes and then just finishers, the crowd even chanted boring for a small period, so they just went into to a 5 minute finisher fest. I'm sorry it was horrible. No doubt the crowd was loud, but poor wrestling is poor wrestling. I enjoyed the small callbacks to the other match but other then that it was awful and ill stand by it. I wouldn't have it over **** maybe I went overboat with a mention of a top 5 worst mania main events, but it wouldn't be far off


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Right, so quick run down of what I thought of the matches in some detail... really tired though:

-Barrett/Miz was actually much better than I expected. Decent match tbh, good considering who the workers were. (**1/4)

-Shield match was great, nothing stood out and not the greatest Shield match, but not the worst. Didn't like how Orton took the fall and Show just stood there, now a heel again. But match itself was great. (***3/4)

-Ryback/Henry was a trainwreck. Henry just dominated, Ryback came back a bit and Henry won in weak fashion. Ryback's done, but at least Henry's keeping his roll going on. (*)

-Tag Title Match... remember it being decent. Ending with Bryan getting the pin was a good way to pay him back for last year. Good shit. (**)

-Jericho/Fandango I thought was a decent match. Jericho dominated the early going but Fandango came back and gave a pretty good performance. Ending was meh, but it's fine.

-Swagger/Del Rio... didn't care. Ziggler didn't cash in. I was 

-Taker/Punk... OMG, SO AMAZING! The pace, the in-ring work, the psychology, the storytelling, the spots that were similar to previous Mania matches, and some great false finishes all led to this being the best Taker Mania match since WM26 with HBK, and I'd maybe even put it above that. Incredible experiencing this match. Punk's entrance was top-notch and Taker's was just incredible. I was cheering both guys. Just a super awesome match. Couldn't ask for much more. Maybe remove the no-selling of the GTS into the tombstone, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head. (****1/2)

- Lesnar/HHH... garbage. Surprised to see it praised tbh. It was slow. The crowd was dead. Nothing eventful happened for the first 75% of the match and the action was repetitive and stale. It was much worse than their Summerslam match imo and I'm thinking I was being a bit generous with the ** I gave it before. Add onto all of that it had to follow Taker/Punk, which wasn't happening. And Lesnar losing? I prepared myself for that moment, but I still ended up disappointed. Can't believe he's now 1-2 in WWE, all because the golden boy needed a big win to balance out his loss to The Rock and because HHH needed his win back. Absolute blasphemy. The retirement stip should've never been it anyway due to the fact HHH is pretty much retired from in-ring anyway. So all in all, poor match, poor result, boring finishing stretch. Not to mention rather than going the way they should've with Lesnar dominating HHH, HHH got in almost equal offense... again. I guess they just wanted Lesnar back to absolutely degrade him as much as possible. Brock is fine with this and has no reason to give a damn, but doesn't mean I have to be fine with it. Meh. (*1/2)

-Rock/Cena... some more garbage. Finishing stretch was cool and had me on the edge of my seat throughout. I thought that final rock-bottom from Rock was it. Cena winning this match I don't have a problem with as I do with the HHH-Lesnar situation, but the fact nothing has seemed to come about the whole build and feud and it's just another "Super Cena conquers all!" story, well... I have to rant about it another day because I'm way too tired. (*)

Will watch at least Taker/Punk back tomorrow and see if it goes down, or maybe even goes up. I'll try to watch Lesnar/HHH and Rock/Cena as well.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@The Rawk

My only gripe with the match, was the finishing stretch of counters. It felt just a little anti-climatic, Taker held the tombstone postion for way too long and there should have been one more counter, possibly a reversal into Punk's own tombstone and than back to Taker's. What did you think?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One of my best friends (who is the definition of casual, last show he watched was XXVIII and the last one before that being XXIII or something) fucking ADORED Punk-Taker, as in saying it's the best match he's ever seen by far (not saying much). When Rock-Cena was on, he almost fell asleep it was that boring to him. Even when all of the false finishes were going on, he was so disengaged by that point that it was actually kind of ridiculous.

I was really fucking burnt out after Punk-Taker and BROCK-GAME to say the least.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Guys, that was the best Sunday Night Heat I've ever seen in my life.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

cena mocking the people's elbow then not getting caught in the rock bottom was pretty hilarious

I enjoyed the callback to his match last year


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well i havn't yet watched Mania, probably wont 'till next week tbh, but i'm soooo glad about all the positive stuff about _Punk/Taker_ - thankyou, thankyou, thankyou.

HHH/Lesnar im reading conficting reviews, take it Trips won like ive been saying all along.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Righto, first thoughts. Obviously it all needs a rewatch pretty soon.

SHIELD/Faces: It was great, WAY too short but great for the time it got. The Shield are legit, i mean we all knew it but this solidified it. All 3 men got some good offense and :mark: at Reigns' Spear. The ending was blah, oh great Show turns back into a heel, so damn exciting. *****

Henry/Ryback: AWFUL. Honestly just an absolute trainwreck. I thought we'd get a slugfest but it was a plodding match which never really went anywhere. Henry wins in poor fashion and then gets Shell Shocked which was pretty impressive but it didn't matter :lol ***

Hell No/Big E & Ziggy: Meh, got little to no time at all, it was a standard tag match, nothing more to say ***

Fandango/Jericho: This was pretty good, Fandango didn't look that good during the match but it was an entertaining bout. ***3/4*

Del Rio/Swagger: Skipped it. Saw Del Rio won, cool. *N/A*

Undertaker/Punk: It was awesome. Punk's entrance got me pumped then Taker's took it over the edge. Great pace to the match and made both men look so good. I wanted Taker's Plancha  but it's no surprise he didn't do it. Punk kicking out of the Tombstone was such a pleasant surprise. I am bias towards both men. I'm not saying it was better than Taker's last what? 7 WM matches but it was a damn good effort from both. 21-0. *****1/2*

Triple H/Lesnar:*ERGH* This was, terrible. Slow, boring. Lesnar didn't look like a beast. Michaels for the first time ever for me was fucking annoying. Random runs into the ring and attacking Lesnar was odd. The stupidity of Lesnar leaving his arm for Triple H to lock in the Kimura three times was hialrious :lol. Wanted this to end as soon as possible. **1/2*

Cena/Rock: Haven't watched this fully but doesn't seem like i missed a MOTY :lmao

JOHN BOY to reign supreme for 2013 then.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****1/2 (MOTY so far).
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - ***
The Rock vs. John Cena - *1/2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Shield vs. Shorteamus *(***1/4)* - Fun opener, good match length and very glad The Shield went over. fpalm at Big Show turning heel for the 606th time though.

Mark Henry vs. Ryback *(*1/2)* - Enjoyed RYBITCH getting squashed, Mark Henry has now got momentum going into the next PPV. :mark:

Team Hell No vs. Ziggler and Langston *(**1/2)* - Decent tag match, Langston was nothing special but Ziggler as usual was awesome, Kane and Bryan too.

Fandango vs. Chris Jericho *(*3/4)* - Boring encounter with a lengthy control segment by Jericho, Fandago makes the super-ultra-mega comeback to win the match. YAWN.

Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger *(***)* - Good match with nice use of counters and technicality. No Ziggler cash in makes me sad though. 

Undertaker vs. CM Punk *(****1/2)* - What can i say about this match, that hasn't already been said? Great Storytelling, Great Psychology, Great Crowd, Great Spots and Great Wrestling. The ending was a little anti-climatic although the crowd reaction made up for it. Lovely to see the audience so invested in a "streak" match despite it being predictable.

Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar *(***3/4)* - Very much a step up in pace from their SS match, good use of weapons but the ending should have been executed faster to keep the crowd on their toes. Still a GOOD brawl and i loved seeing Shawn hit that SCM on loud-mouth Heyman. 

John Cena vs. The Rock *(*1/2)* - A tremendous step down from their match last year, lengthy rest holds and a finisher fest towards the end is all i saw in this match. No Cena heel turn and the rising of each other's hands made steam run through my ears.

*5.5/10*, Lackluster Mania with only two great matches and two solid matches, One of which being the opener (how sad). Dull, Boring and Lackluster is the 3 words i would use to describe this event, So glad i didn't buy it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock/Cena just as bad (if not worse) than last years :lol


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Punk/Undertaker ****1/2 ( Awesome contest and felt like a match the crowd genuinely wanted to see , lack of finishers was a nice surprise)

HHH/Brock ** ( Trips really needs to take his lackluster plunder matches home at this point )

Rock/Cena * ( They replaced the rest holds from last years with finishers this time, almost DUD level but some neat story telling saved it.)

After Punk/Taker the show flopped massively. Enjoyed nearly every undercard match bar Swagger/ADR and the ending to Ryback/Henry which is shitty even stevens booking which didn't do either guy any favours.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Who noticed the snap suplex from Taker? Was as good as Benoit's. (RIP)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Wrong thread. fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Outside of the trashy main event, this show rocked. I had a blast watching it and everything was done to near perfection in my eyes. World Championship did have a touch of an underwhelming vibe behind it. Wasn't poor, so at least it went along with the continuity. Since stars seems to be the common language spoken here, why in the hell not?

Barrett vs Miz ~ *1/4**

SHIELD vs Show/Sheamus/Orton ~ ****1/2* mark: _SHIELD WINS, SHIELD WINS. LOL at claiming Show went heel again? What? The guy never went back to being face in the first place. Only morons jumping the gun. The things people find to complain about. Awful.)_

Mark Henry vs Ryback ~ ***1/2* _(Henry dominates. I had a good time with this. Jesus christ @ the Shellshock. Unreal.)_

Hell No vs Ziggler/Langston ~ ***3/4* _(worked exactly how it needed to be worked. Fun match.)_

Jericho vs Fandango ~ ***** (I liked how this was worked in how Jericho dominated via being the tenured big name and supposedly Fandango was leaving a shroud of mystery weither or not he could indeed wrestle. Curtis looked nervous in the match, you could tell. Jericho helped him along to compose a good match with a big upset. Although, most seemed to expect it with Jericho's enthusiasm to put workers over.)

Del Rio vs Swagger ~ ***1/4* (Swagger gets no entrance b/c that was his punishment for his DUI. Fair enough. At least he had a match. It was above average. Felt a bit weird at first, but later on in the match things ran smoother. Some of the counters at the end were brilliant. I did expect more, but it was what it was and fell into the consistent mold of the night. I didn't expect a cash in here. So I wasn't flustered when it didn't occur. Yay my predictions beating those who feel the need to complain. YES)

The Undertaker vs CM Punk ~ ****** (Need I say more? MOTN. Hands down. Stellar.)

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H ~ ****** (Brutal. Brock is the king. Expected result, but man what a finish. Great match. Bfd if it was slower paced. At least there was a method to the madness behind it unlike Cena vs Rock II. Brock made this great.)

John Cena vs The Rock ~ *1/2** lmao Cena was seen calling spots like a mother-you know what in here. Horrid pacing. No structure. Relying on nothing but two moves for the entire finish. Bad, bad match. The only match that I had no fun watching. Pardon the GOOD storytelling callbacks. Which were a nice touch. It's too bad the substance to go along with it in a wrestling sense was null and void. Oh Well. Cena wins. That's all I cared for in the first place. No heel turn either. Not a shocker.)


----------



## Mr Joe Perfect (Jun 16, 2007)

Wrestlemania XXIX Ratings

Miz vs. Wade Barrett - 3/4*
The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - ***1/2
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - *3/4
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - ***
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - **3/4
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - ***3/4
CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****1/2
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - ***1/2
The Rock vs. John Cena - ***


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

Cena-Rock was awful. Rock put on the worst performance.....like ever. Don't you ever come back you lazy piece of shit, I've had enough of your cheesy promos, terrible work and annoying nostalgia act. I called half of the kick-outs so yeah, GREAT DRAMA there. Same thing with H-Lesnar. I predicted the finish of the match as soon as they set up the steps. At least BORKILL had good bumps in it, Cena-Rock was full of stupid restholds and pointless strike exchanges.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The best thing about Mania was Taker's entrance. Legit one of the best things I've ever seen on a WWE show. Incredible and I loved Punk's entrance as well but Taker's was just perfect.

So......Wrestlemania.......29.......yeah......no........I don't know what to say really. I thought because it was so underwhelming heading in that it kind of _had _to be better than we were all expecting it to be but I don't think that happened. The 3 main events have left me feeling confused and I couldn't rate them without watching them again. My live thoughts are as follows:

*Rock/Cena* - Finisher fest. Like, actual finisher fest. I think the last 6 or 7 mins was all finishers and counters to finishers. A few nice call back spots but that was about it. Then Cena won and....nothing happened. A handshake and that's it. Feels like we're back to square one. I was really tired by this stage so I don't remember much else about this apart from the _finishing _stretch, see what I did there? 8*D. Reaction seems to be very negative so far but I don't remember it being _that _bad. Obviously I need to watch it back again.

*HHH/Lesnar* - First half was horribly fucking slow and I was just reaching the point where my eyes were starting to droop when this started. Dead crowd for the first half of the match certainly didn't help either but they eventually got into it. Things picked up in the second half of the match and it really was brutal. These two beat the shit out of each other out there. Finish was...interesting. Now quite sure what to make of it yet. Thought Brock was winning so I was surprised at the Trips victory. Can't say I'm not happy about it though. I want him to stick around. 

*Taker/Punk* - These guys had the crowd which certainly helped. On the whole NYC was disappointing as fuck for pretty much everything apart from this. I enjoyed it and like I said, adored both entrances, especially Taker's. Punk new gear was pretty sweet also. My main gripe with this match is the fact that I didn't buy into any of the near falls so it was hard to get properly invested in it. It's hard to judge because while it was enjoyable, I had the very strange feeling while watching it for the first time that I had already seen it before. It was weird. 

The event on the whole was weird come to think of it though. The order of the matches, no backstage segments, literally match after match after match, the strange flow of the show, the disappointing crowd. All of it led to a strange Wrestlemania. Not one classic match on the card and New York was just horribly disappointing in terms of creating an atmosphere that the viewer at home could latch on to. Maybe it was the cold? Who the hell knows. 

I'll have to watch everything back before throwing snowflakes out because it's unfair to judge given how conflicted I feel about everything at the minute. I imagine I'd fall in line with *HayleySabin's *views on things though. They seem pretty in line with what I'm thinking at the moment. Nothing spectacular but still some good stuff in the mix.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Taker's Last 5 WM Matches:

1. Mania 25 vs HBK - *******
2. Mania 26 vs HBK - *****3/4*
3. Mania 27 vs HHH - *****1/2*
4. Mania 29 vs Punk - *****1/2*
5. Mania 28 vs HHH - *****1/4*

Now _that's_ a resume.

After sleeping on it, thoughts:

Rock/Cena - This sucked hard. I gave it *** last night but I'm willing to up it to **1/4* :lol. It really was shit though. Unbelievably boring in the first half, I struggled to stay awake. And then simply a finisher fest for the rest of the match. A few moments I liked were the callbacks to last year's match and Cena's teasing of the heel turn. Apart from that is was awful.

HHH/Lesnar - I'll keep this at ****3/4*. I liked it. Could it have been more brutal? Yes, of course. But the story they told was good and the start was solid and the ending was great. It lulled during the middle a bit and the crowd didn't help much, but it was a solid match. Heyman of course was awesome as usual. HBK being that involved was a bit of a surprise but he added a little to the match too.

Punk/Taker - Comfortably MOTN. Awesome heel work by Punk (and Heyman) throughout, Punk 'disrespecting' Taker with the urn and going for Old School was awesome. Loved the Last Ride into Urn shot, reminded me of WM17 with the sledgehammer. Great counters towards the end and even though I was never in doubt that Taker would win, it was a great ride to watch. Glad I saw it live.

The rest of the show was pretty average and I'm not really interested in writing much more about it. Shield match was solid but they're worst big match so far. They won though and that's all that matters. Del Rio/Swagger I thought was ok, it could have been a lot better if they weren't restricted by the time a little. Good to see the WHC not go on first and actually get some build up (good promo too.)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Ranking all of Taker's Best Matches at Wrestlemania -

*(*****)*
1. Shawn Michaels - WM26
2. Triple H - WM27
3. Shawn Michaels - WM25
*(****1/2)*
4. Batista - WM23
5. Punk - WM29
6. Edge - WM24
*(****1/4)*
7. Triple H - WM17
8. Ric Flair - WM18
9. Triple H - WM28
*(****)*
10. Kane - WM14
11. Randy Orton - WM21
*(***1/2)*
12. Diesel - WM12


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm going to watch all of Taker's Mania matches at some stage because I think my opinions and ratings will change based on the last time I saw some of these things. Both the 26 and 27 matches have dropped a bit for me after watching them recently. I really need to watch the rest of them again before starting to rank them for if I did it now it wouldn't be an accurate reflection. Taker is the MVP of Mania though, that much is certain. I don't know what we're going to do without him.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

How many matches does everyone think Taker has left? Perhaps Cena and Brock at the next two and that'll be that?


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

*Mania*

The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Big Show and Sheamus - **3/4
Ryback vs. Mark Henry - ** (MARK)
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston - **
Fandango vs. Chris Jericho - **3/4
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - **1/2
CM Punk vs. Undertaker - ****1/2
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - ***3/4
The Rock vs. John Cena - ***1/4

idk about you guys but I really dug Cena/Rock. Blows every other rock match out of the water at least. Story was fun, callbacks were nice, rock failing the 5 knuckle was cool. Finisher counters sure but its the main event of fucking wrestlemania, not some random Raw match. I went in with no expectations and came out pleasantly surprised. Three main events and Shield match need a sober rewatch, Shield match disappointed me tbhayley. Show itself was fun though, usually is with friends. It just didnt _feel_ like Wrestlemania imo, only downside.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ywall2breakerj said:


> Cena-Rock was awful. Rock put on the worst performance.....like ever. Don't you ever come back you lazy piece of shit, I've had enough of your cheesy promos, terrible work and annoying nostalgia act. I called half of the kick-outs so yeah, GREAT DRAMA there. Same thing with H-Lesnar. I predicted the finish of the match as soon as they set up the steps. At least BORKILL had good bumps in it, Cena-Rock was full of stupid restholds and pointless strike exchanges.


:kobe

Far from worst ever performance, dont even see how he was lazy either. Goes for both men.

And this was Rock's best performance in a full match since his comeback. There were more rest holds last year by far. At least this year, both men had equal offense time and Rock actually was pretty active throughout the match. As opposed to last year (and his Punk matches), Rock pretty much didn't have any offense game, was breathing pretty wild and Cena did majority of the work.

People are going pretty overboard with the amount of rest holds seen last night too.

The ending was a major finish fest, and the match started off slow. Those are two things I think everyone can agree with and most people not liking. In between it heated up, as did the crowd, and it was going decent.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I thought Rock/Cena was a better match than their effort last year. Rock's cardio has improved and the match seemed to flow faster than last year in my opinion. Of course, last year had the better atmosphere and the perfect ending so that wins out but the match wasn't TERRIBLE last night. Post-match was another story though :fpalm


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> I'm going to watch all of Taker's Mania matches at some stage because I think my opinions and ratings will change based on the last time I saw some of these things. Both the 26 and 27 matches have dropped a bit for me after watching them recently. I really need to watch the rest of them again before starting to rank them for if I did it now it wouldn't be an accurate reflection. Taker is the MVP of Mania though, that much is certain. I don't know what we're going to do without him.


I was running through the past archives of this thread/s and noticed how much you praised Taker/Trips WM27 the day it happened. The storytelling i think, is magnificent and dosen't overdo it as much as their WM28 bout. The nearest count in streak history also pushes it to a perfect ***** for me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^^ I think most of us tend to overrate things straight out of the blocks because it's still so fresh in your head. I LOVED the Rumble this year and had it at like ****1/2 after watching it live. Then I watched it again and realized that I was caught up in the moment and it was never even close to being a match of that quality. Don't get me wrong, I love Trips/Taker 27 and the storytelling in the latter half is a thing of beauty but I think I had it at ****3/4 at one stage and I wouldn't have it at that any more. Same goes for HBK 26 as well. I had that at 5* at one point, then it dropped to 4 3/4, then 4 1/2 and now, well, it's not that either for me. I think this Punk match is going to suffer the same fate as the 27 match once the hype wears down tbh. They stick out so much because the rest of the show wasn't exactly up to par you know?

The order of the card and the lack of backstage segments really hurt the flow of the show for me. It was literally just match, match, match, match all night long with nothing in between to break things up. Then they go and do the 3 main events back to back in another stupid decision where the fans aren't given any chance to recover from the rowdy streak match. Surely to God they should KNOW by now that this is the match that people need some time after since it's been the case for the past how many years now? The whole show just had a very strange vibe to me. I can't put my finger on it but it felt...muted, perhaps is the word I'm looking for here? Underwhelming is another one. Meh. I have it slightly above Mania 27 atm but not by much.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I can't rate Trips/Lesnar anything good because of Lesnar's stupidity when he was locked in the Kimura Lock. Michaels was not needed either, at all. It pains me to say it but i felt he jaded the match.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Some of my favorite parts in Taker/Punk match:










:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:










:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Can't believe there are people who think Trips/Brock was great. Just watched it, and it was massive disappointment. And remember, I barely even expected it to be a *** match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker's entrance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the entire PPV tbh.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Anyone else weirded out that the fans were only *really* into the Punk V Taker match.


I was stunned when they were silent for HHH V Lesnar. Two big stars like that just getting nothing from the crowd.

Hell it seemed no one there cared about Rock V Cena for the first half. Yeah they got into the false finishers near the end but not nearly were they into it as Punk V Taker from beginning to end.

Match placement maybe?

Very strange crowd.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

the whole organisation of the show was really odd. In past Mania's it was 

match - backstage segment - video - match.

Randomly they just aired a 2 minute video followed by a match, all night. It was stupid because the crowd were spent after Taker/Punk and i can't blame them.

DAT CENA/ROCK HANDSHAKE 8*D


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

HHH/Lesnar got a terrible reaction.

Rock/Cena was still pretty good, but it started tame, because the match started pretty slow.

They woke up as the match went on, especially at the end and of course the grand finale.

DEM BOOS.

Starbuck was right though about the structure of the show. All the top matches were like back to back to back.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I kept expecting the tons of funk match to arrive so I could have a little break and so could the crowd, but it never came. Having three big matches like that on the spin is never a good idea.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^^^ I think most of us tend to overrate things straight out of the blocks because it's still so fresh in your head. I LOVED the Rumble this year and had it at like ****1/2 after watching it live. Then I watched it again and realized that I was caught up in the moment and it was never even close to being a match of that quality. Don't get me wrong, I love Trips/Taker 27 and the storytelling in the latter half is a thing of beauty but I think I had it at ****3/4 at one stage and I wouldn't have it at that any more. Same goes for HBK 26 as well. I had that at 5* at one point, then it dropped to 4 3/4, then 4 1/2 and now, well, it's not that either for me. I think this Punk match is going to suffer the same fate as the 27 match once the hype wears down tbh. They stick out so much because the rest of the show wasn't exactly up to par you know?


Yea, I completely understand you and a match usually always drops in rating after a rewatch for me. The liveness of watching is, i think what keeps a certain match rated high in everyone's minds. It kinda sucks (specifically for Taker's WM matches) cause once all the hype and the "overrating" wears off, People began to think the match was way less than the original regard they held it in, when in some cases it actually wasn't. Anyways, Back to the topic at hand, Taker/Trips WM27 does drop for me at times, mostly to a ****3/4 rating but only mid-match, Always and i mean always it originates back to a full ***** rating by the time the match is over. The storytelling, psychology, brawling, spots and that count after the tombstone by Trips is just perfect.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Just watched the post-match interview with Cena on WWE.COM and it's embarassing how they're trying to recapture the whole "private moment in the ring" that Rock and Austin did at Wrestlemania 19. They tried it last night, and then in the interview the guy asks Cena what was said and he refuses to share it, saying it was a private moment between the two.

As if we'd all believe that Rock/Cena feud is on the same level as Rock/Austin fpalm


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

admiremyclone said:


> Just watched the post-match interview with Cena on WWE.COM and it's embarassing how they're trying to recapture the whole "private moment in the ring" that Rock and Austin did at Wrestlemania 19. They tried it last night, and then in the interview the guy asks Cena what was said and he refuses to share it, saying it was a private moment between the two.
> 
> As if we'd all believe that Rock/Cena feud is on the same level as Rock/Austin fpalm


Well, it's for the fucking kids.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Time for some rambling.

After having some time to think about it, the best way I could describe WM29 is unremarkable. Aside from Taker/Punk, nothing felt other-wordly or even all that special. There was a severe lack of atmosphere throughout the show and the pacing felt off with too many video packages, a strange match order, and a disappointing allocation of time.

Several key matches were undersold, the main-event just started out of nowhere, and a huge majority of guys were hurt in my mind by their recent work. The Shield, Jericho, Cena, Bryan, Ziggler - they've all had much better matches on recent episodes of Monday Night Raw. That's not to say what we were given was awful, but it did feel underwhelming given the overt lack of atmosphere and time. 

Punk/Taker was phenomonal from the get. The entrances, the spots, the pacing, the atmosphere. It felt like a genuine Wrestlemania main-event. That's something Taker always brings, and it seems like every year I'm praising him for saving the card. I don't know what they're going to do when he's gone. 

Punk continues to be the MVP of the WWE. What a run he's had since the Vegas shoot.

I can't even be bothered getting into Cena/Rock again, but I guess I will. The result and aftermath was obvious; that didn't bother me at all. The match was, in a word (much like WM29 itself) - unremarkable. I'll sum it up with a few keywords. Bad pacing, boring, plodding, rest-holds, uninspired, stretched-out, predictable, finisher-fest. That's the last I'll say about that match (and hopefully the feud).

All in all, I would call this a 1 match card. In that, if 1 match was taken off the card, this event would have been bad [for Mania]. Punk/Taker was amazing, the 6-Man was good, Brock/Taker was good, everything else ranged from decent to bad. 

I'll be glad when Wrestlemania is back in a roofed stadium. It seems like the atmosphere dissipates right in front of your eyes when Wrestlemania is in a bowl - this year more than ever. I'm sure the crowd was lively in person, but it didn't translate very well on TV.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Barrett/Miz - **1/4
Shield/Shorteamus - ***1/4
Henry/Ryback - *3/4
Hell No/ZiggBig - **1/2
Jericho/FandanGOAT - **1/2
ADR/Swagger - ***
Taker/Punk - ****1/2 (MOTY right here)
HHH/Lesnar - ***3/4
Rock/Cena - **3/4

Overall, alright Mania, in-ring stuff was good and that's really what this was all about I guess. To those saying this was the worst Mania ever (not pointing fingers but I've seen some already) - 11 was FAR, FAR worse than this. 1, 2, 4, 9, 15, 16, 27... all those were worse.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I marked for Bryan finally getting a Mania moment. After the last couple of years, it was awesome to see him win the match and feel the embrace of the crowd. Genuinely great moment there, and the panning shot of the YES chants throughout the stadium was a true highlight.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*WrestleMania XXIX*
Barret vs. Miz: ****
Shield vs. Orton, Show, Sheamus: ***1/2*
Ryback vs. Henry: ***
Hell No vs. Ziggy & Biggy: ****
Jericho vs. Fandango: ****
Del Rio vs. Swagger: ***1/4*
Undertaker vs. Punk: ******
Brock vs. Triple H: *****
Rock vs. Cena: ***

That main event was just terrible, joint-worst match on the card. No emotion at all in the match, worked exactly like last year's, slow and pointless headlocks all over the place... Saving graces include Cena's repeat of last year's spot and counter into the rock bottom. Cena's Mania record is getting pretty gruesome.

Brock vs. Triple H was underwhelming, but Brock was fucking awesome as always. Match was slow but the intensity was enormous. What the fuck at Brock continuing to get stuck in the Kimura? Horrible storytelling there. Dude just dumb or what?

Punk and Undertaker were both excellent. A couple of slight miscues aside, the match was a classic with so many great visuals.

Undercard was definitively average, which would've been fine if the No Holds Barred match and the main event had delivered. Well, shit happens.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

ATF said:


> Barrett/Miz - **1/4
> Shield/Shorteamus - ***1/4
> Henry/Ryback - *3/4
> Hell No/ZiggBig - **1/2
> ...


It definitely wasn't the worst Wrestlemania ever. It was, however, extremely underwhelming and only one match felt somewhat special. When The Undertaker is gone I don't know what WWE is going to do. Every year he brings his A game and gives us MOTN. Wrestlemania without him will be sad to see.

I'm disappointed because after the lacklustre Wrestlemanias 25, 26 and 27 I thought 28 was pretty fantastic from start to finish. So I thought maybe they could sustain the quality but they didn't.


----------



## Brogue_Kick (Sep 11, 2011)

Rewatched Punk vs. Taker. ****1/2. I would like the match to last longer!


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk wearing taker's original colours on his tights :mark:

No doubt that Heyman said to do that like he did at NOC 12 with the Yankee colours, but little shit like that just adds another dimension to a match. It was phenomenal and will rewatch asap.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Gonna watch Taker/Punk when I get home. Gonna be a pain to find it I'm sure (unless I get some help ;p ). Also interested in seeing Lesnar/HHH as it seems I have it far lower than the majority. Maybe commentary added to the match or something. Rock/Cena I'll watch as well.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

*WRESTLEMANIA XXIX REVIEW​*
*The Shield defeated Sheamus, Randy Orton, and Big Show ~ ****

I was worried that WWE were going to try and cram this match into five minutes, thankfully they didn’t. The match started at a good pace which made sense because the shield are seen as a real threat to WWE in terms of kayfabe, so the “personal” aspect of this feud was represented well by the frenetic intensity (Rollins, dive into the barricade, fuckin warz!) that only dipped away when Big Show tagged in. However, this just enabled the character work from Ambrose to shine during the slaps to his chest from the giant. 

Some solid storytelling was executed at the end with Orton stealing the tag; WWE swerved me by making me think this would lead Show into assisting the shield before pissing off to the back, yet the shield were allowed to go over on their own merits with a crushing spear from Reigns. The finish was a tad anticlimactic but still solid. The aftermath was predictable but made sense. Good storytelling, character work and spots here with the shield continuing to look great. This was worthy of opening any event.

*Mark Henry defeated Ryback ~ ***

My expectations were low going into this one because Henry is best off working with smaller, more mobile guys who can sell like a dream…Ryback is not that kind of guy. The match actually started well with the strength challenges that tied into the angle that led to this match, Henry’s clothesline on Ryback was particularly beastly. 

Unfortunately the pace slowed down quickly after that with tedious bear hug after tedious bear hug, yet this did have a pay off when Henry grabbed the ropes and reversed the shell shock, squashing Ryback’s injured back and picking up the win. 

WWE actually booked the result and aftermath perfectly here; Henry looked like a monster and legit threat a WWE title level while Ryback got over by having one of the few “wrestlemania moments” on the card. Not great but both men got something out of this kayfabe wise. The match went about two/three minutes too long for my liking.

*Team Hell No defeated Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston ~ ** ½*

I think that I might have enjoyed this far more than most people. The start that teased a recall from last year’s squash between Bryan and Sheamus was absolutely brillo pads, fucking loved that. 

The limited time that Bryan and Ziggler had in the match together was good, but for some reason unbeknownst to me WWE’s road agents thought that BIG E needed to control the match. Thankfully Kane tagged in asap so that Langston could continue to look strong, which is his only asset. The way that BIG E picked up Kane with sheer ease was quite impressive. 

Team Hell No soon regained momentum and Bryan managed to fit in his standard running knee off the apron which always looks great. Then we saw some ACTUAL TAG WORK for the finish, which is probably the reason why I enjoyed this match more than I should have because Bryan got his redemption for last year’s embarrassment.

*Fandango defeated Chris Jericho ~ ***

I wasn’t exactly invested in Curtis’ new character going into this but I was willing to give the match a try. I got the story that they were trying to play out, the crowd didn’t believe that Fandango could wrestle because he had been avoiding matches, so Jericho having a long control section made sense. However, regardless of that it just didn’t come off as interesting to me, at all. I’ll give Curtis credit where credit is due for the neat looking top rope leg drops, yet that was literally all he contributed to the match. Oh well, I suppose if that’s the way Fandango’s going to wrestle, like a non-active chicken shit, then he could get some intense heat in the months to come. 

The finish stretch was sloppy as fuck; Jericho missed Curtis’ legs after the block from the lionsault before the terrible roll up. I appreciate what the guys were trying to do, but it just wasn’t executed very well in my opinion. Jobber (to the ”stars”) Jericho losing yet again was not shocking at all.

*Alberto Del Rio defeated Jack Swagger ~ N/A*

I’m not going to lie; I was at the bar for this one because I gave zero fucks. Desperados >>>>>> WHC

*The Undertaker defeated CM Punk ~ *****

What can be said about this match that hasn’t been said already? It was a brilliant contest that only strengthened the legacy of the streak. When people (mostly idiots, but there you go) criticize Punk for not being “in shape” they should watch matches like this. If he has to sacrifice mass in order to set a lightning pace like he did in this match then so be it. 

The ducking and reversals at the start were a great way to display the intensity of the rivalry, the stiff kicks from Punk only added to that. Loved the spot where Heyman gave Taker a legit reason not to perform his dive over the top rope, clever stuff. The brawling on the outside looked class and I’m not even going to allow the table fail to take away from the overall contest because it still looked brutal. 

The reversals in the finishing stretch were slick as fuck, leading to that rapid fire tombstone from Taker; allowing Punk to kick out of it was a genius move for me because I thought that the match was done right there, seeing as I didn’t buy Punk as a threat due to WWE’s general fuckery. It’s just a shame that Punk wasn’t able to work in a few more near falls of his own, something that I felt this match needed to go over the top. 

This was outstanding stuff and probably the only match that I’m desperate to watch again, and again, and again. Punk deserves to main event a future Mania based on this, he did already deserve it, but this just made it all the more apparent.

*Triple H defeated Brock Lesnar ~ ***

Eurgh. This was actually worse than there summerslam match for me because there were too many dumb things that put me off from truly enjoying this rematch. First of all, these guys are supposed to legit hate each other due to all of the shenanigans that went on for the past year involving Shawn, Steph, broken arms and blood. So where was that passion for the first portion of the match? Plod, plod, plod. These guys also had the opportunity to do something special due to the fact that this was the only special stipulation match on the card, yet when the weapons came out they were used sparingly and unconvincingly. 

The finishing stretch was interesting because the first couple of times that Trips locked on the kimura I was on the edge of my seat, but the third or fourth time it just became repetitive, tedious, unconvincing and incredibly detrimental to Brock who looked like a moron for allowing the situation to recur. 

Much like the opener this had an anticlimactic finish with a result that did nobody any favours. Does HHH need to be wrestling anymore? Not really, his best days are well behind him and he’s hardly active now anyway. Brock could have done with this win seeing as his matches are so few and far between; retiring HHH would have put him on the right path. I suppose that Brock can regain his heat again, but how many arms can he break arms before people lose interest? The lack of entertainment, story and end game (pun intended) in this match made it rather pointless, but not terrible.
*
John Cena defeated The Rock ~ *1/2*

Thank fuck for Cena, eh? Seriously, without John’s movement and clever little storytelling moments (I marked hard for the false people’s elbow) this match would have been a complete an utter dud. 

Unfortunately we also had the usual shite that is part and parcel with modern Rock matches, lots of nonsensical rest holds. The first half of the match and no rhyme or reason to it at all. Thankfully they did attempt to sort things out in the second half with some tidy reversal sequences, not that they meant much, but they were certainly levels above the interminable rest holds of doom. 

The match did end eventually, thankfully, not abruptly but with something of a damp squib of a finish. I guess I just didn’t care because Rock and Cena (mostly the former) didn’t give me a reason to care about the result during the match. Massive laughter was had by me when the WWE put over the Rock by playing his music in DEFEAT while also giving him more camera time than Cena AFTER THE MATCH. The conclusion to the pay per view was predictable and cheesy as fuck, but I suppose it made sense.

*The actual show outside of matches ~ *1/2*

As for the show itself, the arena/set looked phenomenal. The shield/Punk/Taker entrances were epic and the crowd was outstanding for the streak match, otherwise the atmosphere was fairly lame. 

I didn’t watch Cunt Daddy because I was at the bar, thank fuck. There seemed to be a chronic lack of backstage segments and video packages, this is probably the last time I will complain about that. 

Yet for me the biggest weakness of this show was the complete and utter lack of memorable moments and satisfying conclusions to angles. Outside of Henry/Ryback finish/aftermath, everything to do with Punk/Taker and Rock “passing the torch” to Cena this was a fairly missable event.

*Overall WRESTLEMANIA XXIX rating ~ ***


----------



## cletus318 (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't think Rock/Cena was as bad as people are making it out to be. It was hardly a classic, but in terms of pacing and the distribution of offense, it was better than their match last year, even if the ending was a finisher bukkake. I think people are downgrading it because they kept teasing the Cena turn throughout the match and even post-match and never pulled the trigger. That's a separate issue, and an extremely disappointing one, because no one older than 7 bought the whole passing the torch thing they tried to do post-match. Of all the potential options, the WWE predictably went with the least interesting one, and as a result, there's no new ground for Cena to break. Even if they turn him down the road, the impact won't be the same.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

People still think that WWE are going to turn Cena heel any time soon? Honestly? :lol


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> So the last five streak matches:
> 
> 1. Wrestlemania 25 vs. Shawn Michaels - *****
> 2. Wrestlemania 26 vs. Shawn Michaels - *****
> ...


*Last five streak matches:*

- Wrestlemania 25 vs. Shawn Michaels - *****3/4*
- Wrestlemania 26 vs. Shawn Michaels - *******
- Wrestlemania 27 vs. Triple H ****3/4*
- Wrestlemania 28 vs. Triple H - ******
- Wrestlemania 29 vs. CM Punk ******


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The silver lining in HHH beating Lesnar is this gives Punk the opportunity to end HHH's career which would do more for him than it would for Brock. Of course at the same time, Brock really couldn't afford to go 1-2 and now, while he's still Brock Lesnar, it's not the same as before and even right after the Cena match. The feud and matches with HHH would have killed him if not for a few good BEAST moments.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm going to be alittle biased and say ROCK's title reign was one of the best in the PG era









I don't mind that Cena won the title because I have said before that it makes sense for the current face of the company to beat the past face. Last year was a great result because the Miami crowd paid to see the ROCK and it made sense (business wise) to make the hometown boy win because he was the major attraction of the night. People only ordered/attended WM 28 to see the ROCK and making him win wasn't a bad idea at all. This year however, I felt the rematch was set up the best way possible. ROCK ending the 434 day title reign, Cena winning the rumble which meant they have an excuse to face each other again. It's fair for Cena to get his win last night because he needed his legandary moment. ROCK defeated Hogan, Cena and Austin in Mania, Austin defeated ROCK, Hogan defeated Andre the Giant and now, it was only fair if Cena got his moment if defeated the ROCK.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Shield/Geeks- ***1/4
Henry/Ryback- **
Tag Titles- **3/4
Jericho/Fandango- **1/2
ADR/Swagger- **3/4
Taker/Punk- ****1/2
Brock/HHH- ***1/2
Cena/Dwayne- *3/4

Fine show. Much better than the previous two Wrestlemanias and was better than most Wrestlemania shows imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Let's assume that next year, the same 'big six' are still involved with each other. What combinations would everyone prefer?

*Set #1*


Brock vs Rock
Cena vs Undertaker
Punk vs HHH

*Set #2*


Brock vs Undertaker
Punk vs Cena
Rock vs HHH

*Set #3*


Brock vs Punk
Rock vs Undertaker
Cena vs HHH

Obviously some of these aren't that realistic, as I can't see anything like Cena/HHH happening again or Rock/HHH. But barring injuries, we know those six will more than likely be involved in big matches. There is a small chance that someone like Ziggler or Bryan or whoever makes a step up over the coming year and gets to go up against someone in a big match but that doesn't seem likely at the moment.

I'd personally be happy with Brock in any of those matches, though not as much the one with The Rock but it could be better than The Rock's recent garbage. I'm pretty stuck as to what HHH will do - who else is there for him to work with?


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

My problem with WWE and their handling of Lesnar is that they had a ready made legit star on their hands, somebody who had an aura that was levels above anybody else on the roster (full time or not) apart from possibly the Rock. The Cena match/feud helped him to retain that in my opinion, despite the loss at ER 2012.

However, this feud with HHH has been tedious at times (save for Heyman) and the matches themselves have made Brock look like a run of the mill main eventer rather than a legit ass kicker. I'm not even taking last nights result into account here, I just think that he allowed HHH far too much offense in both matches. HHH's comeback fell flat for me last night fell flat for me because Hunter looked like he had control of his destiny.

Against Cena at ER Brock looked like a machine, which only accentuated Cena's eventual comeback. Since then Brock has just seemed fairly ordinary. Maybe that ER match just raised my expectations to ridiculous levels? I don't know.


----------



## Shazayum (Jan 4, 2010)

Cena and rock was easily better than hhh and lesnar. Also stfu Starbuck, we were great last night! That hhh match was such a bore.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Set #1 is what I want for next year... hell its what I wanted for this year.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer I agree Set 1 is what I am praying for at Wrestlemania 30, since me and a mate have already decided we are going.

Buy rate would be astronomical for those 3 matches :mark:


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

The Rawk said:


> Maybe remove the no-selling of the GTS into the tombstone, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.


Ha, this was actually one of my favourite moments of the night. The way Taker just sort of fell into the Tombstone without stopping to catch his own momentum made it look so last-ditch, which is a huge difference from most deliveries of the Tombstone. No pause, no pose, just "Crap, better smash this guy's head into the canvas while I'm falling here."


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shield/Superfriends - ***1/4
Ryback/Henry - **
Fandango/Jericho - ***
ZigE/Hell No - **3/4
Swagger/Del Rio - ***1/4
Punk/Taker - ****1/4
Lesnar/Trips - ***1/4
Angle/Angle - *

Actually a really decent show overall other than the shit main event. No backstage interviews or any segments felt really lame though. Didn't like that at all. And the 19 Rock/Cena promos during the night got harder and harder to stomach. The boyscout ending to the show was also horrifying. I didn't expect Cena to turn heel or anything but...c'mon. That was so lame.

Last 5 Mania main events

Trips/Orton - DREADFUL
HBK/Taker - INCREDIBLE
Miz/Cena - LITERALLY THE WORST
Rock/Cena - PRETTY BAD
Rock/Cena - DREADFUL

I'm not liking the trend.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I just want a Wrestlemania with no part timers at this point. Undertaker being the obvious exception but he'll probably retire next year. As much as I like Brock his only match that I loved since returning is vs. John Cena both of his HHH matches were underwhelming and he doesn't provide much entertainment on the few RAW's he actually does show up on. Triple H can retire now too there's no need for him to be taking up a spot on the card at this point though I'll always mark for DA SLEDGEHAMMER


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WM30 is long way away boys, I truly hope we get Taker vs. Cena.


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

Good 'Mania but it lost my interest around the time the HHH/Lesnar match started. It was good up till that, I thought and I enjoyed pretty much everything in some way up until then. Just felt the match was paced horribly and there was so sense of hatred between the two at the start. Or at least from HHH's POV, not sure if Lesnar actually kayfabe hates HHH (he has little reason to).

The "HHH does the kimura 4 times in a row" was shit too. Brock had multiple opportunities to just roll off him.

Rock/Cena...was, yeah. Well it had a couple of nice call back spots to last year, I'll give it that. But apart from that it was pretty awful. + the ending.

Still an enjoyable 'Mania. BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On another look Cena/ROCK definitely isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Certainly not 1 star worthy. Last year's match was better but this time around, there were some nice parts like the Cena Bottom and most of all the callback to last year's finish. They did overdo it with the finishers and the early portion was a bit boring which wasn't helped by the awful crowd. But ROCK was in better condition and there wasn't an overdone amount of restholds. The spot calling was hilarious, though. Anyone caught Cena saying "duck it" when he did his first Shoulder Block? Last year he said "One more" while jumping.

Taker/Punk is the undisputed MOTN, though. I was so impressed that I'm this close to making a face turn regarding Punk. 

Taker really has my respect to the fullest. He wrestles once a year but it's the MOTN EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. John Cena has yet to have that HUGE Wrestlemania classic, hopefully it happens next year with Undertaker.

Overall, I'm disappointed but mainly because of the opener and Big Show turning back heel as if anyone gives a fuck. They need to do something with Orton FAST.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock's DAT RETURN run

w/Cena vs Miz/Truth - 1/2*
vs Cena I - **1/2
vs Punk I - *
vs Punk II - *1/2
vs Cena II - *

DAT QUALITY


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock legitimately had one of the WORST title runs of all time. Horrible matches and bad promos. Urgh. One of the worst returns ever too factoring in everything he's done since he came back. I genuinely cannot think of ANY positive to come out of his return for me as a fan. Has he made money for the company since he came back? No doubt. How does that affect me as a fan? Zero.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> On another look Cena/ROCK definitely isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Certainly not 1 star worthy. Last year's match was better but this time around, there were some nice parts like the Cena Bottom and most of all the callback to last year's finish. They did overdo it with the finishers and the early portion was a bit boring which wasn't helped by the awful crowd. But ROCK was in better condition and there wasn't an overdone amount of restholds. The spot calling was hilarious, though. Anyone caught Cena saying "duck it" when he did his first Shoulder Block? Last year he said "One more" while jumping.
> 
> Taker/Punk is the undisputed MOTN, though. I was so impressed that I'm this close to making a face turn regarding Punk.
> *
> ...


V HBK WM 23?

Love that match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Rock's DAT RETURN run
> 
> w/Cena vs Miz/Truth - 1/2*
> vs Cena I - **1/2
> ...


:lol

So who can get a good match out of Dwayne at this point? Taker? Surely he needs someone younger and in better shape than Rock.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> V HBK WM 23?
> 
> Love that match.


Great match but not on the caliber a guy like Cena should be when it comes to "best WM match". I'm thinking something that's either 5 stars or only a quarter away. Wrestling Undertaker in the main event might just do that for him.

Plus the HBK match wasn't even MOTN as Undertaker vs Batista is far superior imo.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Cena WM 23

I have that at ****1/2 and was easily match of the night. Great work by both men. Cena needs to have more matches of that ilk. I believe he can, it's just about pairing him with the right guy, though.

Thinking about it, though. Maybe Vince/WWE doesn't really care about Cena having that crazy MOTY at WM that we care about. Maybe Vince & co. are truly satisfied with him being the guy that wins the title in the WWE Title match every year at WM rather than having the best match of the night? It's a possibility. Who knows.

Edit: Whoops, meant to quote the Cena WM 23 match post. Ah well, you get my point.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Rock legitimately had one of the WORST title runs of all time. Horrible matches and bad promos. Urgh. One of the worst returns ever too factoring in everything he's done since he came back. I genuinely cannot think of ANY positive to come out of his return for me as a fan. Has he made money for the company since he came back? No doubt. How does that affect me as a fan? Zero.


Too over to try, as they say.

Seriously though, beyond one half decent call back to Dusty Rhodes before the Royal Rumble main event I can't really think of anything memorable that Rock has done since returning this year. When you consider how much hype his return has had then it's definitely not obscene to call his last WWE title run one of the worst of all time.

In regards to the future of the WWE title, moving forward I'm hoping that we will get some Cena/Henry action after Extreme Rules. If Henry can resume his hall of pain form then we could be in for a treat. I'm still shocked that Mark went over last night to be honest  The fact that he did suggests that WWE have something good lined up for him

On the other hand, have WWE been "jobbing out" Ryback in a futile attempt to cease the Goldberg chants? Because that's the only logical reason after the initial monster push, either that or Vince has lost interest (once again).


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

ROCK's matches since returning:

w/Cena vs Miz/Truth - Need to rewatch
vs Cena I - ***3/4
vs Punk I - ***1/4
vs Punk II - ***
vs Cena II - **1/2

I don't think his matches have been horrible as some are saying. It all depends whether you are a huge fan or not, I guess. I can't believe some are saying his promos have been terrible. Sure he has said some cheesy words and lines but overall, the message and delivery has been good. For example in his first promo with Punk, he said Cookie Puss and people immediately said the promo was bad based on one word but when you look at the content of the promo, it was a great one. He put over Punk as a threat, praised his historic title reign and said how Punk's GTS knocked him out cold. He clearly sold the match. Then you have the promo on the go-show to the Rumble which again I thought was done well. Almost all of his promos in 2011 were great, 2012 he had a mixture of good and bad (the one after Mania where he announces his title shot was solid but I didn't like 'trending on twitter' crap). The only negative was that sometimes he went off topic such as the story times and the concert (only the Vickie Guerrero one).


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rocky's return, oh here we go 8*D

Miz & Truth - SS 11: Didn't watch, don't think i ever will. Nothing interests me about this match.
Cena WM 28: ****
Punk Rumble 13: *DUD. DUD. DUD.*
Punk Chamber 13: *1/4**
Cena last night: Finally watched it all the way through, it was a chore. So that tells you all you need to know. It was not a good match at all, not on Punk RR levels but nearing them. Resthold after Resthold, with absolutely no pay off whatsoever. Don't care that the crowd wasn't into it, that's their prerogative but it wouldn't have made much of a difference. It was just a sub par match on all accounts *** for the callback to Mania 28, 'twas a nice moment.

Great return Rocky 8*D

Before anyone says, i was a huge fan of Rocky, _before_ 2013 and again this is match-wise. His promos have been so-so.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'll admit, I did enjoy the first Rock/Punk promo going into RR.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ROCK'S RETURN:

Survivor Series 2011: ★★½
Wrestlemania XXVIII: ★★★★
Royal Rumble: ★★★½
Elimination Chamber: ★★¾
Wrestlemania XXIX: ★★★


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

@Everwolf and Pierre McDunk, do you think ROCK's legacy is now hurt? The majority view is that his return has failed in terms of match quality.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> ROCK's matches since returning:
> 
> w/Cena vs Miz/Truth - Need to rewatch
> vs Cena I - ***3/4
> ...


The first two matches are kind of irrelevant to his recent title reign, to be honest. That's what we were talking about, right? I don't know.

I hated the Rumble match for the way it was structured, the tediousness of the rest holds and the booking that made the eventual ending predictable and forced. I didn't enjoy the EC 13 title match either but I'll have to watch it again. Last night's match was horrible, in my opinion. I've already explained why I feel that way so I'd be interested in seeing your reasons. Direct me to them if I'm being lazy/ignorant/both.

As for promos, again, I'm just talking about since January. The rumble one was good and I agree that there was some good content in the "cookiepuss" promo, but he really needed to make his mind up whether he was doing a serious promo or a comedy promo, because for me the silly shit just negated the good points. I must admit that I laughed at "popeye the crackhead" (how juvenile), but again that made Punk look like a geek that Rock didn't respect, to me anyway.

So yeah, if you're taking pre-January 2013 stuff into account then he hasn't been a total washout, but his recent title run was fairly rank, again, in my opinion.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> @Everwolf and Pierre McDunk, do you think ROCK's legacy is now hurt? The majority view is that his return has failed in terms of match quality.


I can't speak for everyone, but I was a pretty big fan of him as a kid. I was excited when he came back in '11. But I slowly realized that it was really just a lesser version of the same things I saw as a kid. And then when the matches started happening I got progressively more and more disappointed. He wins the belt, barely shows up on Raw. I understand he's got movies and shit but it's a commitment to be WWE champ. So I'd say it's definitely had an effect on my view of him.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Personally I think The Rock's legacy is hurt big time. Before he came back, I never had anything against him at all, and I'm sure most didn't either. Now that's he's come back and put on some awful matches with hit and miss promos, people view him differently. Not to mention the fact that a lot are pissed at him for taking away the spotlight from the full-timers. 

You should always leave your audience wanting more, that's how you keep your legacy. Look at Austin, everyone is clamoring to have him back. But what if he did return and was awful in the ring and average on the mic? His legacy would be dealt a blow too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

with Cena vs. Miz and Truth *(Never Watched)*
vs. Cena *(***1/2)* (His GOAT match between his 2011 return and 2013)
vs. Punk *(*1/2)*
vs. Punk *(**1/2)*
vs. Cena *(*3/4)*

Rocky really needs some intense cardio for lengthy matches, Hopefully he brings his A game to his next matches of potentially Cena and Lesnar at WM30. I'll even admit that showing today was absolutely appalling. I don't care what anyone says, that was one sad excuse for a main event, It might of beaten out Trips/Taker for most finishers in a match and Edge/Orton Vengeance 2004 for most rest holds.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

w/Cena vs Miz/Truth - *
vs Cena I - **
vs Punk I - ***
vs Punk II - **
vs Cena II - **1/2

They are my ratings for The Rock since he returned.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

For myself, this return has hurt what i remember the Rock to be. It's just been so sub-par and just shows that the WWE are such a short term company. They have no long term vision, it's all about the quick buck they can make the next day. Rock gains mainstream attention and i realise that, he's a huge star but for me, him becoming the WWE Champion was completely the wrong move, it just made everything just that more predictable than it already was. We all knew we were getting Rock/Cena II, i was just hoping it would be without the belt on the line. 

It hasn't hurt his legacy from the casual POV and i guess that's what matters but this start to the year has just been so underwhelming, who knows if it'll improve? Rock's apparently sticking around for ER, so maybe we're getting Cena/Rock III? 

I'm rambling but in short: yes for myself, no to casuals


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Yeah, the phrase "always leave them wanting more" was tailor-made for The Rock until he stepped in the ring again. It's been downhill at a breakneck speed ever since.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Personally I think The Rock's legacy is hurt big time. Before he came back, I never had anything against him at all, and I'm sure most didn't either. Now that's he's come back and put on some awful matches with hit and miss promos, people view him differently. Not to mention the fact that a lot are pissed at him for taking away the spotlight from the full-timers.
> 
> You should always leave your audience wanting more, that's how you keep your legacy. Look at Austin, everyone is clamoring to have him back. But what if he did return and was awful in the ring and average on the mic? His legacy would be dealt a blow too.


I completely agree.

Before The Rock come back, I looked back on him with fond memories, but since he came back I just can't seem to stand him, I'm not buying it. It's not like I was even a kid back when he was in his prime, I was late teens so I knew what was going on, I wasn't a kid liking his catch phrases, I just liked him in general. 

But maybe that's just society and how it's changed? We tend to hate change in modern day, hate on what's popular etc. and maybe that has affected The Rock? I don't know. But I do feel you're absolutely right about leaving your audience wanting more.

The same is said for Taker, he isn't seen at all for a year, he's not like The Rock where he's in movies, seen at events etc, he's gone, hardly even spoke about throughout the year, then he comes back and does what The Rock can't do anymore and that's put on a ****+ clinic that only Taker knows how.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'll be so happy if The Rock just left it at that. No more matches, odd appearances here and there.

Just no more in ring work to tarnish more of his career.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

C+P my thoughts from TTT:

Lesnar/HHH and Rock/Cena were atrocious. HHH is without doubt the exact opposite in brawls of Jerry Lawler. His insistence to work these slow, plodding and 'dramatic' brawls without the realisation the pace kills any semblance of heat and intrigue is astounding. Doesn't help that he's a woeful underdog and can't bump in a way to get a crowd invested in a beating and what we end up with is an off pace with Lesnar looking pedestrian and methodical instead of uncontrollable and unhinged and HHH being the drizzling shits in his comeback. His matches circa 2010-now are without doubt the Spielberg of wrestling. Trying to communicate a story but bashing the viewer over the head with it and removing any sense of subtlety in the process and ensuring the story fails to connect with the viewer on any level.

Rock/Cena was laughable. Absolutely no flow or pacing and a literal 'finisher fest'. I get its the cool thing to describe matches with more than a couple of kickouts as 'finisher fests' these days, but at least in those matches there's usually creativity in the counters and a deliberate attempt to pace between the big nearfalls to get the best reaction. Here there was no thought or invention and they just recycled the same counter relentlessly and killed any heat in the process. The match also really exposed how structure is everything in hiding the repetitive movesets of top tier WWE wrestlers. With a good structure and mindset you can get away with not deviating from a set pattern of moves, but in Cena & Rock's case it was just the AA vs The Rock Bottom with an additional submission tossed in between. It looked like they had no clue on what to do besides their main move and it became uncomfortable how it unfolded.

Cena heeling it up (c'mon he worked that as a clear heel from bailing out of the ring to taunting the fans and Rock in his mannerisms) was honestly the only thing I took out of the match. The callback to last year with him faking Rock out was probably the highlight of the match and his dickhead grin to Rock luring him into the AA sealed it. I get Rock isn't in a condition to be working quick matches these days but it was sad to see how basic and repetitive they were in covering for his cardio with such a lethargic pace and lazy transition to the finishing run.

Will spoiler thoughts on Punk/Taker to avoid the post becoming unreadable:



Spoiler: thoughts



Punk/Taker off first watch was better than either HHH match for me. Felt more authentic and Punk was off the charts great with his mannerisms and character work and pulling out spots no-one else would think to do, namely countering Old School and immediately going for it himself. Taker winning was a certainty but they pulled off the counters and nearfalls well and were aided in both men being very expressive performers who could control the crowd in spite of the outcome being obvious. Table spot was what it was, though it did look sufficiently brutal. Really think they need to re-evaluate the spots on announce tables these days since it looks clear spots from the ring to the table aren't working and seemingly only brute power (Lesnar suplexing HHH) will do the job.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rock's return :

w/Cena vs Miz/Truth : ** 3/4*
vs Cena I : *** 1/4*
vs Punk I : *1/4 **
vs Punk II : ** 1/2*
vs Cena II : ** 1/2*

GOAT.

I think Rock's sole attempt at coming back was to purposely sabotage the idea that Cena and Punk are fantastic workers, since both of them failed to do anything with his worthless ass. I'm starting to think that 89 Flair wouldn't even be able to work a great match with The Rock nowadays TBH, and I hope that he comes out tonight and announces his retirement or some shit, that would be amazing.

I can totally see Cena and Rock shaking hands only for THE SHIELD to interrupt and destroy both of them to end RAW, setting up that match in six weeks @ Extreme Rules. It would be fucking stupid to do it but it's something I wouldn't past the WWE doing. If The Rock can ruin Punk's PPV Streak of *** 1/2+* matches than he can easily make a Shield match bad which BY THE WAY..... The Shield match was the second best match of the night by far, how come nobody was digging that shit nearly as much as I was? Reigns looked fucking insane, Rollins and Ambrose laid the groundwork once again, Show and Sheamus looked awesome, and Orton looks lost once again.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rock shits on D.Bryan and Antonio Cesaro 24/7 in terms of in-ring work


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rock shits on D.Bryan and Antonio Cesaro 24/7 in terms of in-ring work


:clap i needed that chuckle.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> The first two matches are kind of irrelevant to his recent title reign, to be honest. That's what we were talking about, right? I don't know.
> 
> I hated the Rumble match for the way it was structured, the tediousness of the rest holds and the booking that made the eventual ending predictable and forced. I didn't enjoy the EC 13 title match either but I'll have to watch it again. Last night's match was horrible, in my opinion. I've already explained why I feel that way so I'd be interested in seeing your reasons. Direct me to them if I'm being lazy/ignorant/both.
> 
> ...


 Nah, I was responding to Brye's post about ROCK's matches since returning but if we're talking about his title reign then yes, it wasn't great. Promo wise, there wasn't much to talk about. Most of his promos before EC were not special and that 'crackhead story' promo wasn't needed at all. The promo after EC where he introduced the title was an improvement. I also liked his first promo with Cena in the Old school RAW (I lol'd at the Lance Armstrong line) and the segment with the four hall of famers Q and A was again decent. Rock responded to Cena well and also looked serious towards the end. Yes he said 'fruitty pebbles' but it was done in a way to get into Cena's head because Rock said the only thing Cena would be doing after WM was eating a bowl of fruity pebbles whereas the Rock would be celebrating his win again.

The matches, I didn't like that well. Best Rock match in 2013 is easily the first one at the Rumble. I thought there was some good intensity, storytelling and some nice exchanges (the GTS into the sharpshooter then into a roll up). Punk working the ribs was also good psychology and it's a good thing that JBL mentioned that Rock still had rib injuries due to the Shield attack. The match seems to have a mixed view though. I have seen good reviews from posters here, youtube and blog reviews and I have also seen bad reviews on here. I didn't like the EC match as much though. I thought there were more restholds in the match than the first match. Only good thing about it was the finish whereas the Royal Rumble match had a poor finish, just like you said.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock's return has just proved what I've always thought; Rocky sucks. Didn't like him back in the day, had absolutely zero interest in his return, and he's done NOTHING to make me change my mind on him.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

w/Cena vs Miz/Truth: **
vs Cena I: ***3/4
vs Punk I: *
vs Punk II: **1/4 
vs Cena II: ***

Rock's match against Punk at the Royal Rumble 2013 was probably his worst match since returning. A pretty lackluster return from The Rock match-wise.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> :clap i needed that chuckle.


I hope you know I was joking


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rock shits on D.Bryan and Antonio Cesaro 24/7 in terms of in-ring work


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> I hope you know I was joking


yeah, hence my reaction and not red blocking you. 8*D


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Someone made a suggestion of Taker facing Rock in his last WM match and i started :lmao. Seriously though, Undertaker is the GOAT in terms of ring work but he just can't carry the un-carryable ROID. The match would be a trainwreck before it happens and a major bump in Taker's perfect streak of great/classic/perfect WM matches.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The only reason ROCK returned was to put over the main face of the company, John Cena. His title win was just an excuse for the rematch to happen IMO.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> The only reason ROCK returned was to put over the main face of the company, John Cena.


This. Some of these other posts, :lol


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Taker/Punk was glorious, I'll throw ****3/4 but it might be that "new match smell."

EDIT - FULL PPV:
Miz/Barrett = 1/4*
Shield/Big Viper Fellas = ***1/4
Henry/Ryback - *
Hell No/Ziggy & Big E - **3/4
Fandango/Jericho - ***
Del Rio/Swagger - ***1/2 (Wished it was longer, I enjoyed it a lot)
Taker/Punk - ****3/4
Triple H/Brock - ***1/2 (Need to rewatch it, hated the finish)
Cena/Rock - ***


A solid Wrestlemania in my book.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Taker/Punk was glorious, I'll throw ****3/4 but it might be that "new match smell."


It seemed rushed to me. Punk's psychology is what makes up for his size. He knows how to tell a good story. But it felt a little underwhelming (the match itself). One thing that was a plus was it's lack of 10000 finishers.

I really wish we had more character development last night. It seemed to be lacking.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

How would you guys rank and rate Taker's WM match with Punk, Edge, Batista and Orton? Mine would go something like this:

1. vs. Batista *(****1/2)*
2. vs. Punk *(****1/2)*
3. vs. Edge *(****1/2)*
4. vs. Orton *(****)*

I know, I know, you'll need some rewatches before judging but going on estimates and memories. How would you rank them?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wanna talk about rushed? How about skipping out on the 8-mixed tag and shooting right into Cena/Rock with no video package.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Last 7 Undertaker WM Matches:

7. Undertaker Vs Punk WM 29 ****
6. Undertaker Vs Edge WM 24 ****1/2
5. Undertaker Vs Batista WM 23 ****1/2
4. Undertaker Vs HHH WM 27 ****3/4
3. Undertaker Vs HHH WM 28 ****3/4
2. Undertaker Vs HBK WM 25 *****
1. Undertaker Vs HBK WM 26 *****

Now THAT is a fucking Undertaker WM Streak lol. Worst match in 7 years is ****? And that's just based on my live impressions of it. Could change when I review it. Don't want him anywhere near The Rock at WM. Undertaker should be in the ring with someone good.

Then throw in WM 17, 18 and 21 and you have 3 more ****1/4 matches. Honestly think he blows away HBK as far as Mr WM is concerned.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Taker/Punk was glorious, I'll throw ****3/4 but it might be that "new match smell."


You're overrating it. 

It was a very good match, MOTN, as expected with Taker's matches at Mania, but for me, Taker's match with Orton, Edge, and both HBK matches were better.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh my God. Just watched Punk/Taker for the first time. Easily ****1/2. I read the spoilers, and I was still super into this match. Such fantastic work from both guys. So much emotion from Punk, and Taker was clearly tearing up after the match. 

I was just as emotional at the end of Punk/Taker as I was after Trips/Taker last year.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

The Rawk said:


> Wanna talk about rushed? How about skipping out on the 8-mixed tag and shooting right into Cena/Rock with no video package.


Oh I agree. I guess what I meant is that the whole show last night was rushed, not just Punk/Taker. It was kind of stupid too with all their promos that they felt the need to put in for the last match (when they've had a ton of them on Raw and Smackdown) and a Diddy concert. Priorities I guess.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Did last 5 Taker matches in order yesterday. Here's a new top 10:

1) WM25
2) WM26
3) WM29
4) WM23
5) WM24
6) WM21
7) WM14
8) WM28
9) WM17
10) WM18


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> You're overrating it.
> 
> It was a very good match, MOTN, as expected with Taker's matches at Mania, but for me, Taker's match with *Orton*, Edge, and both HBK matches were better.


Punk match over the Orton match, IMO. A very methodical pace the Orton one had, which was only brought up by the hectic ending.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> You're overrating it.


Not going to argue that at all, for me it was the most I've enjoyed a Taker match since HBK at XXV. I'm sure I could pick it apart and really study it, but I'd feel dirty doing so...match was too fun and I don't want to "ruin" it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Mine are as follow.

(*****)
1. Shawn Michaels - WM26
2. Triple H - WM27
3. Shawn Michaels - WM25
(****1/2)
4. Batista - WM23
5. Punk - WM29
6. Edge - WM24
(****1/4)
7. Triple H - WM17
8. Ric Flair - WM18
9. Triple H - WM28
(****)
10. Kane - WM14
11. Randy Orton - WM21
(***1/2)
12. Diesel - WM12


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Undertaker vs John Cena (Vengeance 2003) : **** 1/2*

Fucking awesome match in the early career of John Cena. What's crazy about this one is that it's perhaps the worst Taker-Cena match that took place in the 2003/2004 timeframe, with the duo having a trio of matches on Smackdown that just tore the fucking house down, including a forgotten four star encounter in 2004. The story here was the "fight for respect" and they did it the right way ; Taker shows Cena a lesson, Cena lands his big stuff that doesn't put Taker away, Taker beats Cena. Simple enough and Cena ends up getting the rub despite not getting the win. It looked stiff as fuck at times and I'm starting to realize how stiff Cena was in the early stages of his career (seriously, check it out). Great, great match and I hope these two get a chance to do it again in the main event of Wrestlemania XXX.

EDIT: The most underrated thing about Taker-Punk so far is that I never once saw anybody mention that fucking TOMBSTONE at the end of the match. My friend legit thought Punk's neck had been BROKEN with the way he sold that, and although it wasn't exactly a HBK-Taker XXVI tombstone, it was one of the best tombstone piledrivers I've ever seen.

You wanna know what the crazy thing is? Taker has AT MOST two matches left in him at this point, with BROCK and CENA being the only two guys left to challenge the Streak.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*C&P from elsewhere so most of it probably doesn't make sense on here 

Kinda feel in the same boat as you on this matter right now. Only watching WWE because I have the time to and even now it's limited to PPVs unless there's a TV match that really tickles my interest. There'll be maybe 2 or 3 things a year that actually motivate me to WANT to see it. I don't know about losing touch with wrestling altogether but I like to imagine there'll come a time in my life when I get a wife (or husband, times a changing) and kids (or robots, times a changing) and I don't have hours spare to search for recommendations on what New Japan matches to watch for example. Then it gets to a point sorta where I'd just be watching wrestling if it's on rather than actively searching it out. I dunno but it'd made me think and I wasn't a million miles away from thinking along the same lines sooner rather than later. With current stuff at least. I don't know about losing the motivation to chuck on a Memphis disc and just sit through it even when I'm older and past the point of illegally downloading wrestling in foreign languages and suspect quality. Anywho.

Decent show. I didn't hate it so it was better than last year. Other than Punk/Jericho last years was wretched. Nothing memorable that I'd ever watch again though and no significant "WRESTLEMANIA MOMENTS". 

Miz has a title btw. Barrett must have had the worst IC Title run ever. Bad match and they were kicking out of finishers even on the pre-show. There was A LOT of finisher kick outs on this show. Even on the undercard. I don't mind the odd one on the undercard because I'm not expecting it there and with the right person it can work. The Zig-Zag nearfall I thought was pretty neat for example. Good babyface kick out and Ziggler's established enough that it doesn't hurt him too much and you don't expect a finisher kick out in that spot on the card because it's against the grain. Jericho kicking out of Fandango's leg drop was very odd though given it's his debut and it's been kicked out of already before even being established. I think the Shield tag was the only match where a finisher didn't lead to the finish but got a 2 count instead. Pretty sure Cameron was planned to kick out of Cross Rhodes at 2. I caught the pre-show and Kofi was on doing analysis with JR and Dusty. That was amusingly odd. 

Shield 6 man was good. Less so than the other 3 matches but to be expected on this card. Is there a reason why Ambrose and Rollins always come out together and Reigns is on his own? I don't get why the entrance through the fans isn't used as babyface shtick either. Thought Orton ruled in this. Proper hyped up getting the crowd into it and that played nicely into his over-eagerness to tag in and losing the match. Show was really good too. Sheamus was just there which was odd for a guy who they should have a lot of stock in as being a legit main event star. Reigns is so legit in this role. Show decked the babyfaces and it didn't matter one bit. I really hope The Shield get some serious momentum and direction coming out of Mania again now that the part timers have had their payday.

Ryback/Henry was bad. Nobody cares about Ryback in peril, they're just into his catchphrase and some of his power spots. Few Henry moments stopped this from being a total DUD. Finish was STOOOOOOPID. I think I heard Ryback do that once so I'm assuming that's something he always does. I assume Henry's moving to a title picture but honestly the way they booked it didn't really do him any favours and just made Ryback look abysmal. Did the finish they should have done right after too. Strange.

Tag match was decent. Short and to the point. Callback from last year ruled and I brought it as a finish. Ziggler's supposed to be the next big star and he's losing to Kane at Mania. They spent over half a year making AJ the main focus of Raw and look at her now on their biggest showcase. Recurring theme. Bryan and Ziggler did their best. Big E did his job. Kane is completely irrelevant. I guess Bryan's stuck with him still.

Jericho/Fandango was good. Jericho was in workhorse mode to the max. Did his best to make him look good. Enziguri spot looked neat. I like the entrance shtick. I don't get why they gave this gimmick to a guy who can't dance at all. Like not even really badly that it's delusional heat. Has anyone seen Emma's dancing gimmick on NXT? It's like the best thing ever and they could make so much money off that dancing shtick. I like the entrance but once he gets in the ring I struggle to care. He tries to throw in gimmick shtick between spots where he'll pose and it just doesn't click at all. It's not like Curtis is really good in the ring either and he didn't really show it either. His leg drop looks fancy though. Fluffed his positioning bad for the Lionsault. Jericho was great, match was good. At least the dude got to beat Jericho at Mania and he'll never lose that. Clearly Vince's flavour of the month that he'll get bored of soon. 

ADR/Swagger was the worst match on the card I thought. Dutch's attire was amazing mind. Nobody cares about these two at all. Del Rio did the ten punches that everyone counts for and barely anyone at WrestleMania counted for him even with Ricardo cheerleading. Submission stuff was so sloppy. Swagger getting out an armbar and straight into an ankle lock? Hmmm. Del Rio was doing flying kicks straight after extended ankle lock spots and they had extended arm breaker spots after it's locked in again. I really really hate that. They'll do a Submission Match at Extreme Rules too I bet. Oh lord.

Punk/Taker was MOTN I thought. Better than I expected. Punk was fantastic in it but I'm not sure I liked him laughing during Taker's entrance. Fitted his character just right but I thought it was odd to do it for a Taker match at Mania with the streak and go that far. I guess I'm nitpicking there. Old School spot ruled. Table spot looked nasty in a bad way. Spots like that make me wish Punk would know his limitations a little better and stop insisting on being a high flyer. Surprised they didn't play the Punk trying to get Taker DQ'd or Counted Out card a little stronger. The urn stuff was distracting at first but then the match got good thankfully. There's obviously gonna be big near falls because they gotta pull out all the stops to try and half convince the live crowd that Punk could win. They were creative enough with a few of them though. Tombstone kick out I liked a lot. Better than the Hunter "epics".

Lesnar/HHH didn't work. Lesnar was great in it but it was too slow and they couldn't get the crowd really into it. Not shocked the crowd didn't care much for Hunter and they haven't fulfilled Lesnar's potential at all. Don't think many people brought Hunter would lose which hurt it and even less actually cared if he did lose. Lesnar looked great, Hunter didn't and Shawn felt forced in. Finish was so dragging and I don't like anyone sitting in something like a Kimura that long even if it is Brock.

8 Person Tag got dumped which means someone wen't long. Or they played too many video packages and "oops" Brodus got bumped. Do they show all them video packages on Raw? I bet they don't because that's the sort of thing WWE would do. Show great hype packages for the show on the show after you've already brought it.

I liked Cena/Rock. There was enough good stuff there for me to enjoy it in among other stuff that I..... didn't like. Feared the worst when they started off slow and started working headlocks but it picked up and they made a lot out of not being able to work a match like Punk/Cena for example. The story with all the reversals was great on paper, good in execution. Some of the stuff they gave up a little easily and stuff like that. They started trading finishers way too early and everyone in the crowd knew it. First Rock Bottom and AA barely got a reaction. PPV live crowds are normally pretty smart, especially Mania crowds and most probably figured it'd be at least second time around before they get a finish. It's doubly obvious when they just randomly throw them in before they've even started the big finishing stretch. Everyone knows the Mania main event isn't ending that anti climatically. Too many finisher kicks outs obviously but whatever. I'll trade it for Cena's people elbow spot which was the highlight of the show. Fantastic spot. Everything from the goofy faces Cena pulled to the playing off the story of last years finish to Cena pulling up and taunting Rocky. I wish that was the finish because it was so perfect. Tremendous near fall though and I brought the shit out of it. Second Rock Bottom I kinda brought too because I'm programmed now to think second time around wins it. I kinda hate that I "get how pro wrestling works" during spots like that because it ruins some of the enjoyment. WWE do it during every big match now though so I imagine even if WWE exclusive fans who are only semi casual fans are smart enough to cotton on now. HHH did the same thing with the Pedigree. Threw it in there like halfway through the match and nobody brought it because everyone is smart enough to figure the match isn't ending at this point. Finish felt a bit anti climatic with the extended down time before the final sequence which they did like 5 times already. Just finish an extended sequence with the finish rather than the down time right before it. I do like how Cena plays off the heel turn rumours at times. I bet Vince blew his load over not being able to hear Rock and Cena's love poem after. Can't blame them for the post match. Cena's there guy and the guy the company is built around. I just wish they understand their markets a bit better because any dick, tom or harry could have told you that wouldn't go down well. The salute on the ramp was too far though. Also, I really hated all the build during the match about Cena having this terrible year. It's just not true in any way shape or form. Cena and Punk more than proved why they deserve to be the top 2 guys in the company right now on this show too.*


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Undertaker's top ten at 'Mania.

1. vs. Shawn Michaels WM25 - *****
2. vs. Shawn Michaels WM26 - *****
3. vs. CM Punk WM29 - ****1/2
4. vs. Triple H WM28 - ****1/2
5. vs. Batista WM23 - ****1/2
6. vs. Edge WM24 - ****1/2
7. vs. Triple H WM27 - ****1/4
8. vs. Orton WM21 - ****1/4
9. vs. Triple H WM17 - ****
10. vs. Ric Flair WM18 - ***3/4

Wow.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

TheWrestlingFan said:


> How would you guys rank and rate Taker's WM match with Punk, Edge, Batista and Orton? Mine would go something like this:
> 
> 1. vs. Batista *(****1/2)*
> 2. vs. Punk *(****1/2)*
> ...


- vs. Edge *****1/2*
- vs. Orton - *****1/4*
- vs. Punk - ******

Haven't watched Batista/Taker properly in years so I need to re-watch it to give my rating.



TheWrestlingFan said:


> Punk match over the Orton match, IMO. A very methodical pace the Orton one had, which was only brought up by the hectic ending.


The Orton match is so enjoyable because Orton was a rising talent at the time, and much less of star than Punk is now, but yet he got so much offense in and was a believable threat to end the streak with how he was the ''legend killer'' at the time. I couldn't buy Punk ending the streak once. And the Orton/Taker feud was also SO much better the abomination that was the Punk/Taker feud, and the build up of the feud plays a part for me.


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

Yeah Taker/Punk was much better than either of the HHH matches with Taker, I thought.

Still you need to end strong for something like this. Good undercard matches are good but if they're "ok" you can get by as people remember the mainevent. It's how things work. And WWE's last two matches fell very flat.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Faraday said:


> Yeah Taker/Punk was much better than either of the HHH matches with Taker, I thought.
> 
> Still you need to end strong for something like this. Good undercard matches are good but if they're "ok" you can get by as people remember the mainevent. It's how things work. And WWE's last two matches fell very flat.


Agreed with this. HHH/Taker series suffered on a rewatch and felt empty and too self indulgent for me. A forced epic rather than something simple that escalated into a quality encounter solely through the ringwork and performances in character work of Taker & Punk.

Ironically last year it was their terrible decision to start Mania off with the 18 second debacle that affected the pacing of the show with the undercard being subpar and Taker/HHH being the first match to get a noticeable reaction. For the record I liked the payoff in the weasly Bryan losing before he could squirm out of a match, but the opening match at Mania was a terrible time to book it given the matches after it were filler and lacking in quality which left the crowd lethargic until Taker/HHH. 

This time the undercard served its purpose in being solid if not spectacular and allowing Taker/Punk to shine in comparison as the first truly great match up until that point. Taker/Punk wasn't tasked with 'saving' the show but rather progressing it as everything beforehand was solid but lacking that one great match people associate with Mania. Whoever thought following that with Lesnar/HHH and Rock/Cena back to back is asinine though because the crowd were dead. Should have had Taker/Punk after Brock/HHH with the HOF stuff and packages in between, then the 8 man tag and maybe a video package in between Taker/Punk & Rock/Cena.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

eh, I'd barely give this Mania a passing grade. The content in the matches was alright... decent spots here and there. But even what some consider the "worst WM in a while" WM27 had more striking moments than this one(Cole and Miz winning) and last year had even more matches to talk about.

This one.. "well two heels won". That's nice oh and Cena gave his respect to somebody, I don't think there's quite anything memorable to withhold from a goody-two-shoes superstar winning the title showing diplomacy to his opponent who openly started respecting him. If the biggest thing to come out of tonight's event was Fandango winning or Ryback lifting Henry, noteworthy moments I will admit, that may inevitably gonna leave some people sour. Lots of WM moments have memorable moments for all demographics, some don't. this wasn't really one of 'em. not a big deal, on to the next one. Kids went home happy, we all knew what kinda game it was from the get-go.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We haven't had a really great PPV MAIN EVENT since Cena-Punk NOC anyways. I'm a huge Ryback-Punk and Ryback-Punk-Cena fan believe it or not, but neither one comes close to the level that Punk and Cena went out and set (obviously). Now, with the idea of Rock having another main event match at Extreme Rules, it could mean that we're in the worst year for main event matches EVER. I mean don't get me wrong, 2012 when it comes to main event matches wasn't exactly fantastic but it is GOD so far compared to this year.

My biggest fear is that we've entered a new era of how WWE structures their main event matches. They can't rely on finisher fests in every single return match they do, haven't they learned anything from HBK/TAKER (as we all should)? Seriously, XXV had the adrenaline rush of a roller coaster with no seatbelts, and how did they do the return match? They made it a psychological masterpiece which in turn made it surpass the original Mania XXV match in the first place. 

When everything is in doubt, just call on Cena-Punk to deliver a classic once again.

EDIT: Well last night was Cena's moment, no doubt. They did the whole thing with The Rock afterwards to prevent a fucking riot from breaking out. The whole sign of respect and pyro to end it off was pretty much an indication that the Rock/Cena arc is over (thank fuck) and that they're both moving on into the future. When WWE is putting together lists in 10 years of the greatest Wrestlemania moment in history, Cena's victory and final moment with the championship held high will be placed near the top I'm sure. That's what this Mania will be remembered by, because I'm 100 percent sure that in 5-10 years no casual will remember that there was no chance Rock was walking out with the belt last night.

I still think we're getting BROCK-GAME III at payback or something.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

How many Rock Bottom's did Cena kick out of? Felt like over-kill


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought it was three, but my friend said four.

I love how all it took was for one people's elbow to put down Punk but it took literally 4-5 finishers to put Cena down.

Actually..... That enrages me.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Eagerly awaiting Mania thoughts from Greg's parents. 

Just to condense my long ass ramble, I thought Punk/Taker was MOTN beyond any doubt. ***3/4. Shield tag was ***1/4. Enjoyed Jericho/Fandango and parts of Cena/Rock. Rest was bad. Highlight of the show was Cena's People's Elbow spot.*


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I thought it was three, but my friend said four.
> 
> I love how all it took was for one people's elbow to put down Punk but it took literally 4-5 finishers to put Cena down.
> 
> Actually..... That enrages me.


 SuperCena :cena2


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

At least they had Punk kick out of a Rock Bottom the rematch but yea they've made a lot of dumb decisions these past few Main Event PPV's


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker's WM matches:

1. vs HBK WM XXV (★★★★★)
2. vs HHH WM XXVIII (★★★★½)
3. vs HBK WM XXVI (★★★★½)
4. vs Batista WM 23 (★★★★½)
5. vs Orton WM 21 (★★★★¼)
6. vs Punk WM XXIX (★★★★)
7. vs Edge WM XXIV (★★★★)
8. vs HHH WM X7 (★★★★)
9. vs HHH WM XXVII (★★★★)
10. vs Flair WM 18 (★★★¾)
11. vs Kane WM XIV (★★★¼)
12. vs Big Show & A-Train XIX (★★½)
13. vs Henry WM 22 (★★½)
14. vs Kane WM XX (★★)
15. vs Big Boss Man XV (★)
16. vs King Kong Bundy WM 11 (½★)
17. vs Giant Gonzales WM IX (½★)

Need to check out the rest.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I ADORE Punk/Cena from NOC last year, had such a big match feel to it


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The biggest problem with the current WWE Main Event style for me is the lack of character work and mannerisms in between the offence from both men. The US style of wrestling has always been far more simplistic than the chain wrestling/matwork masterclasses in British/European wrestling, the strong style and physical wars of Puro & the grace and beauty of Lucha. Where US wrestling differs and excels is usually invested in the character dynamic of both wrestlers. The plucky, heroic, badass, rookie, inexeperienced defiant babyface vs the calculating, methodical, weazely, violent heel. Matches like Flair/Steamboat & Flair/Windham aren't groundbreaking in terms of the exchanges and sequences, but the way in which the character work and mannerisms from both men are prevalent in every exchange sews together a beautiful story which dominates the action and makes each sequence matter in the greate context.

The best main event pairing in recent year has been Cena/Punk and its no surprise the character dynamics are always far and away more interesting and noticeable in their matches. Cena is the powerful, gladiator esque beloved company ace seen by many as everything that's wrong with WWE today and Punk is seen as more of an old school wrestler with a great work ethic and mind for the business who is being held down because his look and style isn't conventional and suited to WWE and their global audience. In every match the 'pure wrestling' style of Punk counters the brute force and power of Cena's style and that coupled with the polarising crowd reaction against Cena and in favour of Punk adds a sense of drama and intrigue to every nearfall. Regardless of how good other guys are in-ring you don't get that same sense of drama in Sheamus/Del Rio, Miz/Cena or Orton/Sheamus.

WWE needs to work on developing characters and attributes specific to certain wrestlers in order to create contrasts in terms of character work that has forever carried US wrestling into producing excellent matches built off of largely simple and basic work and sequences. Punk/Cena have a dynamic at the heart of their chemistry which no-one else on the roster possesses (Bryan/Cena could be similar given Bryan like Punk is regarded by many as a true wrestler who deserves more than he's been afforded in WWE) at this current time and that allows other pairings to suffer because in spite of their work and efforts in the ring the crowds just aren't as receptive to them as they are pairings where a real character contrast is always apparent.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Yeah, one of the few spots I liked during Rock/Cena II was Cena purposely doing the People's Elbow spot over again and goading Dwayne into trying to counter it the exact same way. When Cena hit the AA after that, I legit bought that as the finish. 

I think the best part of Punk/Taker was that it *wasn't* a finisher fest. Yes they had near-falls but they weren't whoring out their finishers in order to achieve these near-falls. Punk's kick out of the Tombstone was a great near-fall, mind you.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It seems that the WWE is more concerned with the FLASH and STYLE in their matches rather than the FIRE and the SUBSTANCE behind it that makes it tick. Just look at The Rock's matches since coming back ; what does his work say about his character, and how is his character reflected through his matches? As a matter of fact, look even before the Rock, look at Cena/Ziggler from TLC, does anybody remember anything from that match save for a few spots that took place? Look at the real character masterpiece main events there have been from 2011 to 2012 ; Cena-Punk (MITB) and Cena-Brock. Both of these matches featured an underlying story that really cranked the wheel behind the match to make everything work, whether it be Cena's morality against Punk's relentless fire and anger in the MITB match, or BROCK'S destruction coupled with Cena's fantastic babyface performance, and with the quality of recent main event matches being so horrendous I can't picture a main event match like that coming soon unless we get Cena to a pure character worker such as a Mark Henry.

Triple H really DOES need to job to Brock in a third match though, seriously (random thought).


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Is Undertaker really Mr. Wrestlemania? Taking out the classics vs HBK for both of them does Taker have better match quality than Shawn?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I kinda had second doubts going into the Taker/Punk match as i knew they couldn't work a match of technicality because the feud had gotten so personal, that it heavily insisted on an all out fight/brawl. I'll give them props though, they really pulled through and produced one classic match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, if there's a rubber match, Brock needs to win. I know he doesn't care about winning, but killing his allure is a bit mind boggling. Guy looks intimidating as fuck yes loses 2 of his first 3 matches. Not to say he was buried, because in reality he only wrestles a few times a year and his presence alone is enough to make any of his feuds credible, but I wish he had been booked a little better.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I went to watch some of Mania again only to discover that I didn't set it to record last night. Great lol. I'll have to wait to catch one of the replays on SBO throughout the week now if I can. I read somewhere that they were running 17 mins late before Diddy even started his performance. Says it all really. There was no America The Beautiful, no opening pyro, no backstage segments, one match got cut and the 3 main events went back to back without a single thing separating them. If WWE are looking to blame somebody they need look no further themselves.

Whoever laid out the card order for this thing needs fired. :vince2


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If they do a rubber match I hope it's soon. No need to save it for Summerslam or Survivor Series or some shit. Have Heyman come out tonight and be like it's 1-1, let's do it again at Extreme Rules. They seriously need to build Brock back up.

What are your thoughts on Mania, TLK?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> So I went to watch some of Mania again only to discover that I didn't set it to record last night. Great lol. I'll have to wait to catch one of the replays on SBO throughout the week now if I can. I read somewhere that they were running 17 mins late before Diddy even started his performance. Says it all really. There was no America The Beautiful, no opening pyro, no backstage segments, one match got cut and the 3 main events went back to back without a single thing separating them. If WWE are looking to blame somebody they need look no further themselves.
> 
> Whoever laid out the card order for this thing needs fired. :vince2


What really shocked me is the fact that there was no backstage segments. NOT ONE!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't seen the show yet but I'm shocked they had Punk/Taker, Brock/HHH and Cena/Rock follow each other. Heard the crowd was dead for Lesnar/Trips which is hugely disappointing. They really should have had one of the big matches earlier in the show. Spaced them out more.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> If they do a rubber match I hope it's soon. No need to save it for Summerslam or Survivor Series or some shit. Have Heyman come out tonight and be like it's 1-1, let's do it again at Extreme Rules. They seriously need to build Brock back up.
> 
> What are your thoughts on Mania, TLK?


I agree, let it happen at ER. 

I'm drafting a write-up of Mania atm. Long story short, it was hit and miss. As Starbuck said the card itself was poorly laid out, as it seemed to lack a few of the things that makes Mania special (celebrity/legend appearances backstage, America the Beautiful, etc), and I feel having the three main events in succession really hurt the latter two. Will post a proper review in a bit. Wasn't a bad show by any means, but predictable and lacking nonetheless.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Looking forward to it.

I'm downloading the show now. Probably watch it tomorrow.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*The rushing thing was odd. Felt like they were rushing from the get go. Tag Title match felt very rushed. Frustrating because there were so many video packages that could have been cut. I must have skipped through 30-40 minutes of video packages. Just one Rock/Cena package will do once people have brought the show. Diddy isn't needed. Sandow got bumped off Mania but Diddy got to perform. Packages like the WWE in the community stuff could just be saved for Raw. Weren't their movie trailers too? Nuts. Can't be that hard to time it out though. Sure Punk/Taker and Trips/Brock might go long for example and you make time in case they do. Save a video package for before the main event that you can cut. It was just odd. Didn't think the match order was too bad. I assume the Brodus match was scheduled for before Cena/Rock. The crowd wouldn't have been into Brock/Hunter much more if it'd had been on before Punk/Taker. That was just a crowd who didn't care much for Hunter and then the match was slow and they never gave them a chance to get back into it. Open air stadiums really kill the live atmosphere on TV too so take that into consideration. It was probably louder live but it's all relative and they were much louder for Punk/Taker than anything else.

Brock won't go over HHH again. To Vince he's the outside guy who left WWE and stuck his middle finger up to Vince. Vince always makes his guys look superior to outside guys. It's just his way. If he wasn't so stubborn then he could have made a fortune back on Brock but instead he has to present his guys as being superior and won't budge so instead Brock just looks like another guy on the roster with an extra special presence.*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hoping to watch the full show later, but there are a few things that really have scratching my head after reading spoilers. 

Mark Henry going over Ryback clean, but Ryback bitching him out after. Why not just have Ryback win? Now he still hasn't won a meaningful PPV match. 

Still can't believe Trips won that. Really wish Brock would have gone over twice, but now it will really be interesting to see where both guys go. 

THRILLED that the Shield went over, and not surprising that Fandango went over. I'm still over the moon about Punk/Taker. Seems that's the only match that has found its way online.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Henry going over was shocking. Thought for sure Ryback had that in the bag. 

I hope Trips features more regularly this year. If he's retiring at WM30, which he should, I'd like to see a few more matches from him first. Maybe something with The Shield.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, the only payoff I can see from him beating Brock is him realizing that he still "has it," and gives more of a full-time schedule before retiring for good @ 30. Then again, it's possible Taker retires @ 30 so who knows.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only logical thing to do now would be for GAME to job to Punk @ XXX, meaning that it isn't going to happen ever.


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> :kobe
> 
> Far from worst ever performance, dont even see how he was lazy either. Goes for both men.
> 
> ...


I don't remember a pro wrestling performance that was so shitty. Maybe it's just my memory but I've seen some REALLY bad ones over the years and The Rock's last night.....just.....awful. At least last year it was a fresh match up, with stuff like the opening sequence, Cena busting out the Sunset Flip-STF combo etc. that could hold my attention. This one just felt like a video game match, and not a King Of Colosseum match, a fucking Smackdown vs Raw 2011 video game match with Lawler and Cole portraying the roles of two idiots talking to each other with headphones on. There was literally NOTHING exciting happening before the finishing stretch. I'll give them props, at least 2-3 nearfalls they did convinced me as match enders and the callback to last year's finish was badass. But that doesn't make what came before it any less horrible.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I can only assume Ryback is taking time off? I get them making Henry looking strong if he's going to work Cena after but honestly it doesn't matter if Henry wins or not but it does with Ryback at this point. Henry could still get his heat back on Raw and be none the worse for a loss to Ryback. He sorta won by fluke too and not because he was unbeatable.

I don't see Hunter retiring in the next year. He's only gonna be working 2 or 3 matches a year and he'll get a good few years out of that. I'd like to see him work with Ziggler and elevate him. Do a match at Summerslam, put Hunter over. Rematch at Mania and put Ziggler over there to really put over that Ziggler's at the top level now. Or any guy on the brink of moving right up the card. *


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I want to buy the Mania 29 DVD so I can own the HOF. DAT WRASSLIN. The vibe of the show was just completely off for me and I can't say that enough. It was Mania but it wasn't Mania. 

In other news, I watched all this stuff on Sunday before the show and the last match not too long ago.

*Wrestlemania 28:

Orton/Kane - ***3/4 (Severely underrated gem of a match imo)
Cody/Show - ***1/2 (Fun)
HHH/Taker - ***** (GOAT)
Y2J/Punk - ***3/4 (Better than I remembered)
Rock/Cena - ***1/2 (Dipped quite a bit but delivered in terms of being an EPIC)

Extreme Rules 12:

Brock/Cena - ****3/4 (GOAT apart from the ending)

Summerslam 12:

Brock/HHH - ****1/4 (Dipped from last watch. I think this is better than their match last night)*

*Wrestlemania 29:

Would have watched but forgot to record* 8*D


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't want Lesnar near HHH ever again. HHH got his win back. Leave it at that. Let Lesnar face someone who he's allowed to absolutely dominate. Orton, Sheamus, even Punk... just someone to give him a shot of getting back to where he was at least post-Cena match. Someone who has credibility but will also take the beating and lose. It's clear HHH won't be that man. Even if they fight again, I imagine Brock will only barely scrape a victory. HHH could do a lot better helping Punk out as opposed to bringing Lesnar down more.

Re-watched Taker/Punk. Fantastic on second watch and first PC watch. Shame the "Holy Shit!" chant after the Punk elbow drop didn't really come through, but great the pair of "THIS IS AWESOME!" chants did. Commentary was actually good and didn't ruin any of the near falls. Punk using the urn to hit Taker off the last ride was great and while I don't think anyone really thought that was it (due to the time before the pin and then the ref slow count... coupled with what Taker's went through the past couple of years), it was still an awesome moment with a truly awesome near-fall crowd reaction. Punk looked like a million bucks and looked better than before even in the losing effort. Him kicking out of the tombstone shocked me because while the tombstone kick out has happened the last 4 Manias, those were against legends. I thought they'd finish it with one tombstone. The GTS into the tombstone thing came off a lot better and quicker on TV than it did live imo, and therefore I'm now fine with that. The finisher countering at the end was awesome. Only thing I would've done was had Punk hit the GTS in all that as that would've definitely made for a good false-finish to end the streak. However what they did was good and that tombstone was fucking sick. One of the best one's performed.

The match has it all. Great storytelling, fantastic psychology, amazing wrestling, fantastic pace, a lively crowd, and a great false finish. Brilliant. 3rd best streak match ever (behind the two HBK matches). ****1/2

Now need to find Brock/HHH and try to sit through that. SS match is pretty much rock solid at ***. WM match I have at under **. Let's see what a watch from home does for it.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ywall2breakerj said:


> *I don't remember a pro wrestling performance that was so shitty.*Maybe it's just my memory but I've seen some REALLY bad ones over the years and The Rock's last night.....just.....awful. At least last year it was a fresh match up, with stuff like the opening sequence, Cena busting out the Sunset Flip-STF combo etc. that could hold my attention. This one just felt like a video game match, and not a King Of Colosseum match, a fucking Smackdown vs Raw 2011 video game match with Lawler and Cole portraying the roles of two idiots talking to each other with headphones on. There was literally NOTHING exciting happening before the finishing stretch. I'll give them props, at least 2-3 nearfalls they did convinced me as match enders and the callback to last year's finish was badass. But that doesn't make what came before it any less horrible.


Brock/Goldberg


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

WM 29:

- Barrett/Miz DUD
- Shield/ButtBuddies **1/2
- Henry/Ryback *
- Tag Titles *1/2
- Jericho/? **1/2
- ADR/Swagger *1/2
- Taker/Punk ***1/2
- Lesnar/HHH *1/2
- Rock/Cena *1/4

Holy shit, that was one bad, uneventful, boring, status quo show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock should definitely move on from Hunter at this point. Both their matches have been underwhelming and merely around average for me. Let BROCK wrestle some other guys. Orton, Sheamus and even Punk (not as opposed to it because I have this sudden feeling of being nice regarding Punk after that match yesterday, lol). I hope keeping Orton face means that he gets a shot at Lesnar sometime soon. I would love to see this match and Orton needs something relevant to do.

On another note, I just finished watching Orton/Taker again. Still a wonderful match. Only gets 14 minutes but does what it has to do with the young Orton looking like a million bucks and a threat plus there wasn't a need for a bunch of finisher exchanges. Only an RKO and Tombstone were used but that was all it required. That Chokeslam countered to an RKO has got to be one of the greatest nearfalls ever. Plus they really sold the fuck out of Cowboy Bob hitting Taker with the cast when the referee was down. Still have it at 4.25.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Forgot to mention how great BOB was on the show. Apparently his speech is the nuttiest thing ever. Didn't like how rushed and insignificant they made the HOF feel like. 

Reading back and skimming over some thoughts. I think people got themselves expecting things that would never happen and then ended up dissapointed when they didn't. Cena was never ever turning heel and Ziggler wasn't cashing in. Did they even tease Ziggler cashing in? Del Rio's only just won the title and they're pushing him super hard regardless of how it's working or not. He isn't dropping the title during his first feud. And people are gonna be very dissapointed with Ziggler's reign when it does come. He's only gonna be a transitional champ this time around. Cena turn talk was odd. Cena's been doing heel shtick in odd places for a while now. Self fulfilling prophecy sorta. If you say it's gonna happen enough then it might. He didn't half tease turning on the show though. That wasn't a coincidence either. Cena knows what he's doing. 

Extreme Rules predictions? Only lock I can see already is a Del Rio vs Swagger submission match. Maybe with a stip where Zeb has to leave if Del Rio retains. I'd guess a Ryback/Henry rematch if Ryback is healthy. Be interesting to see where Cena/Punk/Shield go now. Hopefully it's not as predictable as Cena/Punk again straight away.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Extreme Rules predictions ?

Rock/Cena vs The Shield (no joke)
Del Rio vs Swagger

EVERYTHING ELSE. I really, really, really don't want Rock/Cena vs The Shield but it's the WWE and they give us the matches that we don't want to see. There's FIVE Raws between Mania and Extreme Rules so I think we MIGHT see Brock work it, not completely sure though. Maybe Punk/Rock/Cena.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Expecting Rock/Cena 3 or Rock&Cena vs. Shield. Favoring the tag match more due to their circle jerk after the match on Mania.

Brocks advertised so expecting him to attack Rock setting up their match at 30 lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Watching Lesnar/HHH. 5 minutes in so far. Feels like 15. :ugh:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Henry for ER imo. That's the only possible reason I can think of as to why Henry won that match. He's going on to be the first victim fed to Cena in his 2013 reign of domination.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Softy-Pants McHuggable said:


> *Reading back and skimming over some thoughts. I think people got themselves expecting things that would never happen and then ended up dissapointed when they didn't. Cena was never ever turning heel and Ziggler wasn't cashing in. Did they even tease Ziggler cashing in? Del Rio's only just won the title and they're pushing him super hard regardless of how it's working or not. He isn't dropping the title during his first feud. And people are gonna be very dissapointed with Ziggler's reign when it does come. He's only gonna be a transitional champ this time around. Cena turn talk was odd. Cena's been doing heel shtick in odd places for a while now. Self fulfilling prophecy sorta. If you say it's gonna happen enough then it might. He didn't half tease turning on the show though. That wasn't a coincidence either. Cena knows what he's doing.
> 
> Extreme Rules predictions? Only lock I can see already is a Del Rio vs Swagger submission match. Maybe with a stip where Zeb has to leave if Del Rio retains. I'd guess a Ryback/Henry rematch if Ryback is healthy. Be interesting to see where Cena/Punk/Shield go now. Hopefully it's not as predictable as Cena/Punk again straight away.*


I'll admit they had me thinking Cena was turning or at least winning in a manner that wasn't clean. Blarg's theory was so smart, articulate and logical that I dismissed it immediately since it appears WWE creative operate on a completely different basis atm. The video packages, slow start to the match and Lawler's insistence on how great a guy Cena was just had me thinking in the back of my head it was their way of building him up as the colossal hero that would get a turn over superbly. Cena to his credit knew the anticipation going into the match and played off it remarkably well, something as simple as going to the outside after losing a shoulderblock exchange is typically a heel trait and there was one moment where he sat in disbelief after a nearfall and motioned a 3 count to the ref where I began to ponder if they really were going to go in that direction. In hindsight I feel silly for even believing it could happen, but there was definitely a lot of nods from Cena to the commentary that set alarm bells off in my noggin.

Cena/Henry should hopefully be set in stone tonight or next week. Its a fresh program and is something that could be a great way to kick off Cena's reign. Put him in his best position in terms of working off a powerful monster and then maybe build to a Sheamus match for June/July and then look further ahead to a potential Punk rematch and maybe fun defences against some of the overlooked talents who should be further up the card i.e Cesaro & Bryan. Fuck why am I getting my hopes up again? I still hope the Rollins idea I talked about with you before comes off, could be a great WWE take on Black/Nigel back in '08 and would be a great interlude into Ambrose/Rollins for WM 30.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I kinda want to see the Shield paired off at ER or sometime soon. They can all have great singles matches and come in with the angle of how well do they work when they aren't together? Ambrose-Cena, Rollins-Orton, Reigns-Sheamus would all be awesome. I think it's better than throwing together a random 3 man team every time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think we get a BIG TIME Extreme Rules 2013 main event to be honest.

FIVE RAWS between them. Rock-Cena-Punk or Rock/Cena vs The SHIELD. 

Let's be honest here ; The Shield has been built up for SOMETHING. Hell, maybe they attack Triple H and then come back later in the night to attack Rock/Cena to form Rock/Cena/HHH vs The Shield, it's fantasy booking but it's completely feasible. I like how things are more unpredictable in terms of booking right now though.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BREAK UP THE SHIELD UNTIL 2014.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

GOON The Legend said:


> Yeah, one of the few spots I liked during Rock/Cena II was Cena purposely doing the People's Elbow spot over again and goading Dwayne into trying to counter it the exact same way. When Cena hit the AA after that, I legit bought that as the finish.
> 
> I think the best part of Punk/Taker was that it *wasn't* a finisher fest. Yes they had near-falls but they weren't whoring out their finishers in order to achieve these near-falls. Punk's kick out of the Tombstone was a great near-fall, mind you.


Rock/Cena II ending after the Elbow spot would of been perfect


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How about Sheamus-Orton-Ryback-ROCK-Cena vs Shield-BROCK-Big Show?

Talk about a huge main event


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Disagree with Rock/Cena/Punk at ER. Punk needs to start getting some wins after this recent losing streak.

I doubt Punk will be at ER though. A break for him seems likely. Which I'd welcome, because I need a break too.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HHH/Cena/ROCK being on the same team against the Shield :mark:

I don't mind this match at all. ROCK still hasn't addressed the Shield properly and he still hasn't been in a physical brawl with the Shield. HHH is like the only top face the Shield haven't attacked so maybe they will target him in the next couple of weeks. The only negative in this match is that it means the WWE title won't be defended.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Softy-Pants McHuggable said:


> *Forgot to mention how great BOB was on the show. Apparently his speech is the nuttiest thing ever. Didn't like how rushed and insignificant they made the HOF feel like.
> 
> Reading back and skimming over some thoughts. I think people got themselves expecting things that would never happen and then ended up dissapointed when they didn't. Cena was never ever turning heel and Ziggler wasn't cashing in. Did they even tease Ziggler cashing in? Del Rio's only just won the title and they're pushing him super hard regardless of how it's working or not. He isn't dropping the title during his first feud. And people are gonna be very dissapointed with Ziggler's reign when it does come. He's only gonna be a transitional champ this time around. Cena turn talk was odd. Cena's been doing heel shtick in odd places for a while now. Self fulfilling prophecy sorta. If you say it's gonna happen enough then it might. He didn't half tease turning on the show though. That wasn't a coincidence either. Cena knows what he's doing.
> *


I guess Bob was upset because they cut him off. I gotta see his speech.

I was fully expecting Ziggler to cash in until I saw him get pinned clean in their tag match. Then I knew he wasn't cashing in. I thought of this because I don't think people are really buying Del Rio as a champion. In their match, the 2 people that were over was his ring announcer and Swagger's manager. As for Cena, I think they're just going to play him as a tweener where people will boo or cheer him because as long as he gets some sort of reaction, they'll continue to portray him as so. I'm not sure I like it, but it seems like that's what they're going with.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Speaking of the Shield, I liked their match last night but it's not even close to their other 2 PPV outings at TLC and EC. Still love them though, even if they're going backwards in terms of match progression. They have 3 4*+ matches imo. You do have to wonder what the long term plan is for them. I feel confident is saying long term plan with them because it's obvious that they do or actually might have one. Their booking has been superb thus far. I can't fault it. If it's all for Cena to be the one to topple them then we really are back to square one. 2007 incoming. 

The Payback PPV in Chicago would be the ideal spot for Punk to return if he's taking a break which he really seems to need. That table spot wasn't pretty. Unfortunate that it didn't break either because it was probably going to be the one and only Wrestlemania moment of the whole show.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

How they book Punk at this point will be interesting because of one simple factor ; you don't go from The Rock, to The Undertaker, to fucking whoever the hell he's going to take on next. It just won't be nearly as big, but I guess the biggest matches always happen during Wrestlemania season so who fucking knows. There really isn't a place for him now, as Sheamus/Orton/Big Show have their love fest going on that will no doubt continue, all the part timers are going to be gone, and Cena-Punk has Vince reportedly burnt out, so fuck if I know what they're going to do with Punk from this point onwards.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'll admit they had me thinking Cena was turning or at least winning in a manner that wasn't clean. Blarg's theory was so smart, articulate and logical that I dismissed it immediately since it appears WWE creative operate on a completely different basis atm. The video packages, slow start to the match and Lawler's insistence on how great a guy Cena was just had me thinking in the back of my head it was their way of building him up as the colossal hero that would get a turn over superbly. Cena to his credit knew the anticipation going into the match and played off it remarkably well, something as simple as going to the outside after losing a shoulderblock exchange is typically a heel trait and there was one moment where he sat in disbelief after a nearfall and motioned a 3 count to the ref where I began to ponder if they really were going to go in that direction. In hindsight I feel silly for even believing it could happen, but there was definitely a lot of nods from Cena to the commentary that set alarm bells off in my noggin.
> 
> Cena/Henry should hopefully be set in stone tonight or next week. Its a fresh program and is something that could be a great way to kick off Cena's reign. Put him in his best position in terms of working off a powerful monster and then maybe build to a Sheamus match for June/July and then look further ahead to a potential Punk rematch and maybe fun defences against some of the overlooked talents who should be further up the card i.e Cesaro & Bryan. Fuck why am I getting my hopes up again? I still hope the Rollins idea I talked about with you before comes off, could be a great WWE take on Black/Nigel back in '08 and would be a great interlude into Ambrose/Rollins for WM 30.


*They did a good job teasing it but I mean there were people who were so confident of it and I don't get why. It doesn't make sense. You can change it up to make sense but with there being no replacement for Cena and no immediate follow up to Cena turning on Rock it would have been a terrible move in the grand scheme of things.*


MoveMent said:


> Rock/Cena II ending after the Elbow spot would of been perfect


*Said the same thing. Really would have been. Shouldn't be undersold how fantastic Cena was in that match. There was a lot of bad stuff from the match but Cena worked it extremely well and that spot in particular was just perfect.

I don't think it's a lock that Rock will be at ER either. I know he's been advertised locally but that doesn't mean it's set in stone. Brock is more likely but I'm confident they're not THAT stupid to put them both on a B-Show PPV together.*


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Punk was great last night. I personally think he had the performance of the night (Yes, more than Taker, sorry). He deserves a break, especially if he is banged up. Would probably do him some good, but wow, there would be a huge hole on TV if he wasn't there for a few months. But it really is needed for him, I think.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Speaking of the Shield, I liked their match last night but it's not even close to their other 2 PPV outings at TLC and EC. Still love them though, even if they're going backwards in terms of match progression. They have 3 4*+ matches imo. You do have to wonder what the long term plan is for them. I feel confident is saying long term plan with them because it's obvious that they do or actually might have one. Their booking has been superb thus far. I can't fault it. If it's all for Cena to be the one to topple them then we really are back to square one. 2007 incoming.
> 
> The Payback PPV in Chicago would be the ideal spot for Punk to return if he's taking a break which he really seems to need. That table spot wasn't pretty. Unfortunate that it didn't break either because it was probably going to be the one and only Wrestlemania moment of the whole show.


I think it was JBL who compared them to the Freebirds and the way they work, I'd say it's a fair comparison. I'm curious when they're going to keep them as a 3 man team or turn them into a stable where they could do singles and 2 man tag teams as well. I like how they're booked compared to a lot of guys right now and it's what's keeping my attention.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PAYBACK means something, right?

Lesnar destroying Punk leading to his return at PAYBACK?

BROCK getting revenge on HHH and getting his PAYBACK?

Cena getting his revenge on SHIELD in a 3 on 1 handicap match?

STAY TUNED.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> How they book Punk at this point will be interesting because of one simple factor ; you don't go from The Rock, to The Undertaker, to fucking whoever the hell he's going to take on next.


That's what happened to him in 2011 and it hurt his momentum quite a bit. He went from working with and interacting with the top names in Cena/Vince/HHH to working with Del Rio/Ziggler/Miz. Back then he wasn't big enough to carry those feuds because he wasn't established and they came off super midcard compared to the actual stars. The difference this time though is that he has much more value to his name this time around and even though he lost to Rock and Taker, he still held the title for 434 days and he has been elevated simply through working major programs with them. Even though his next program will be a big step down, he should be able to hold his own and carry the load in terms of providing the star power for his future programs so they shouldn't come off as midcard-ish as they did back then. I really don't know where he goes though. If he takes the break and comes back in June they can surely kickstart a program with Lesnar for Summerslam I guess. That would negate him taking a dip in the quality of his opponents since Brock is right up there with the top names.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Finished Lesnar/HHH (skipped a few down parts to move it along). Even worse than when I watched it live. The match is just too fucking slow and never picks up. The HBK super kick reversed into an F-5 by Lesnar was a cool moment, as well as Lesnar being an absolute beast in the Kimura Lock, but that and the fact it was pretty brutal (not on the level it should've been considering the feud though) is why I'm not giving it a DUD. Crowd was dead and rightfully so. I'm actually kind of glad HHH's career didn't end, because even though I'm not a fan, even he doesn't deserve to go out on such a shit match (even though him winning did contribute towards my dislike of the match, but keep in mind not enough to the point where if Lesnar won the match would be much better). So yeah, now I'm praying Lesnar and HHH never cross paths again. They have absolutely no chemistry. They won't let Lesnar look like a monster against HHH. Two matches was more than enough. Anyway, I give it *. For the three reasons I stated above.

Rock/Cena time, although I did skip ahead to the end before watching the match because I wanted to see how the heat came out for Rock shaking Cena's hand and then them on the entrance ramp. How WWE can find that acceptable to end Mania when both men are face is beyond me. Sure it was in NYC, but chances are most crowds would've booed it anyway since Rock fans would've been there and against this happening anywhere.

Anyway, onto the match. I should probably take a break, but I gotta go somewhere soon and I want to get this out of the way now. If it remains worse than Lesnar/HHH... then fuck, that's something.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't think that a lost match at WM against Undertaker can hurt anyone very much. He's The Phenom, ffs


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Softy-Pants McHuggable: Why? 

I mentioned in my BLOG~! last night when I did my WM predictions, that after WM I think they should start having singles matches with The Shield. That way they can eventually (not straight away obviously) have them lose here and there, but keep them undefeated as a TEAM, which they can really play on for quite a while without getting stale if they break up team matches with singles matches. Then when they do finally lose as a team it could be a huge moment. Could even maybe do 3 singles matches at ER; Vs Sheamus, Orton and Show. Have say, Orton and Sheamus lose in whatever fashion you want, then make it so Show is about to get the win and have Orton come down and fuck Show over. Shield keep their perfect record, and Orton can move forward with this heel turn they've been teasing. Obviously screwing Show isn't going to do it, but can plant seeds for it, and then Sheamus can get involved in the situation, eventually leading to Orton turning on Sheamus. Something like that anyway.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Softy-Pants McHuggable said:


> *They did a good job teasing it but I mean there were people who were so confident of it and I don't get why. It doesn't make sense. You can change it up to make sense but with there being no replacement for Cena and no immediate follow up to Cena turning on Rock it would have been a terrible move in the grand scheme of things.*


Maybe I just wanted to believe there was something in the pipeline and that this laughable Rock/Cena feud. On paper it reads ok but when you trace through it Cena talking about his year being ruined is laughable considering he was 'vulnerable' for one month against Lesnar and losing to Tensai before resetting and being the exact same character in subsequent feuds. Its like they realised how perfect in theory the story reads as Rock winning deeply troubling Cena and forcing him to come back from the brink and prove himself worthy as the topdog and show his generation could stand toe to toe with the Attitude Era..except they didn't have the balls to commit to portraying Cena as down on his luck and struggling and figured they could have him cut promos about his 'horrendous' year (where he still won a Slammy for Superstar of the Year) and that would sell the program alongside The Rock's name. It'll make a good highlight package when they focus on small aspects of the feud but as a whole its been such a fuck up and the 'redemption' angle was a joke.

Cena turning would also make him the number one babyface ironically given how popular he'd become to everyone bar the kids by repressing his current character and becoming a heel. They've got a lot of guys who to me could make great babyfaces but you have to ponder how they're going to make these guys progress to the next level and who the next heel will be that will make a babyface superstar by dethroning him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody else wanna :lol w/ me about how Ryback was being built up as the next top level babyface, yet he has never won a LEGITIMATE PPV match ever?


----------



## NJ88 (Jan 27, 2009)

Just re-watching WM19 (just to remind me it's not all underwhelming) and honestly, Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels is in my view a near perfect match. Storytelling is fantastic, the near falls are great, the finishing sequence is great and the post match is perfect too. There isn't often I like seeing a rollup win for a big match like that, but it worked so well here. I just had to post and express my love for it!


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Softy-Pants McHuggable: Why?
> 
> I mentioned in my BLOG~! last night when I did my WM predictions, that after WM I think they should start having singles matches with The Shield. That way they can eventually (not straight away obviously) have them lose here and there, but keep them undefeated as a TEAM, which they can really play on for quite a while without getting stale if they break up team matches with singles matches. Then when they do finally lose as a team it could be a huge moment. Could even maybe do 3 singles matches at ER; Vs Sheamus, Orton and Show. Have say, Orton and Sheamus lose in whatever fashion you want, then make it so Show is about to get the win and have Orton come down and fuck Show over. Shield keep their perfect record, and Orton can move forward with this heel turn they've been teasing. Obviously screwing Show isn't going to do it, but can plant seeds for it, and then Sheamus can get involved in the situation, eventually leading to Orton turning on Sheamus. Something like that anyway.


*Only the cool kids will get it 

Maybe one day I'll change my name to JOHN BEAR-SHAW FINCHFIELD and you can feel cool. 

Shield need keeping together. Maybe do a Rollins/Ambrose tag with Reigns playing enforcer but not singles matches. Not for a while. I still want them to be the focus of Raw with Punk and Heyman manipulating their use and have Team Heyman go up against all the top babyfaces and Cena. I really doubt they're going there though and I don't think they'll mix the title picture with another angle.

Re: SI's point about crowd reactions. I really think WWE crowds are hurting the product in their own way too these days. At times I just wish they'd play along more. Like I hate CHIKARA but their fans are great at being pro wrestling fans and playing their role in the show. It's like going to a Pantomine and booing the hero played by Jonathon Wilkes. I get why the fans boo guys like Cena and cheer guys like Punk and sometimes it works for the better but there's times when the crowds are too "smarky" (hate that word but it makes my point) and ruin good angles because they don't play along.*


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Matt Hardy vs Edge SummerSlam (2005) ****
Edge vs Mick Foley Falls Count Anywhere Wrestlemania 22 (2006) ****1/2
Mick Foley vs Randy Orton IC Championship Falls Count Anywhere Backlash (2004) ***1/2 

Now watching the Raw chamber match from NWO 2008.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Anybody else wanna :lol w/ me about how Ryback was being built up as the next top level babyface, yet he has never won a LEGITIMATE PPV match ever?


It makes me so happy.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I guess I'm one of the only ones around here that truly enjoyed Wrestlemania last night..... Should have a review up once I watch it a second time today


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Softy-Pants McHuggable said:


> *Only the cool kids will get it
> 
> Maybe one day I'll change my name to JOHN BEAR-SHAW FINCHFIELD and you can feel cool. *


*

You'd better. I wanna feel cool .

Alim, yeah, seems not too many people really enjoyed WM last night. I had fun watching live bar the last 2 matches which I didn't like at all.

Just downloaded the show, think I'll give it a couple of days before I re-watch it for a review tbh.*


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Raw Elimination Chamber No Way Out 2008 ****


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

SpookshowTony said:


> Matt Hardy vs Edge SummerSlam (2005) ****


:mark:

Love this getting more love. Been pimping it for ages since I randomly rewatched it and adored how it broke away from the conventional WWE formula and was worked in an authentic and rugged esque fashion. Hardy sells superbly to make himself the heroic vulnerable babyface at the mercy of the dastardly Edge and Edge to his credit steps up and throws some sweet looking strikes that look suitably stiff and reflect the hatred in the match. Really shines as how to work a brawl compared to some matches WWE have put on that have been in the middle of feuds but haven't been worked anywhere near as good as this was.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SO MUCH Mania talk, it's hard to keep up. I'm still in awe of Punk's amazing performance. MVP of Mania by a mile & certainly in the best match of the night. Random thought but I also wanna put emphasis on exactly HOW MUCH better Elimination Chamber was than Mania this year. Look at the comparisons:

Del Rio/Show (***1/4) > Del Rio/Swagger (**1/2) & anything else on the Mania undercard
Shield/Cena&Friends (*** 3/4) > Shield/OrtonSheamusShow (***)
Elimination Chamber Match > Brock/HHH & anything else that wasn't Taker/Punk
Rock/Punk II (***ish) >>>>> Rock/Cena II (*)

As far as Extreme Rules go, I can't make any predictions until I see RAW tonight. What would I personally like to see? These would be fine:

Cena vs. Henry OR Team WWE vs. Shield (some mix of Rock/Cena/HHH or Rock & Cena alone, maybe insert Sheamus & Orton somewhere)

Del Rio vs. Swagger LMS or Ladder match (please no submission match, it wouldn't be that different at all unless it was submissions count anywhere)

Cesaro vs. Jericho (random I know but I think it'd be great)
Miz vs. Fandango?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> :mark:
> 
> Love this getting more love. Been pimping it for ages since I randomly rewatched it and adored how it broke away from the conventional WWE formula and was worked in an authentic and rugged esque fashion. Hardy sells superbly to make himself the heroic vulnerable babyface at the mercy of the dastardly Edge and Edge to his credit steps up and throws some sweet looking strikes that look suitably stiff and reflect the hatred in the match. Really shines as how to work a brawl compared to some matches WWE have put on that have been in the middle of feuds but haven't been worked anywhere near as good as this was.



There's no way I can top what you posted. :clap


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doing a "Perfect WM" for my WM special video, similar to what I did for my Perfect PPV - 2000 thingy a while back (http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?cat=49). Obviously I can't follow the same rules due to different titles being around at different times and shit, but I've narrowed the structure down to this:

WWE Title Match
WHC Match
IC Title Match
Tag Team Title Match
Women's Title Match
High Profile Match 1
High Profile Match 2 
Streak Match

Anyone have any better ideas?


----------



## Timber Timbre (Aug 11, 2011)

Just posted this in another thread, figured i'd drop it here. Just some quick initial thoughts on the show based on first viewing, might go more in-depth on all the matches eventually..



> HHH/Lesnar
> 
> I'm cool with the PWFG styled shoot-fighting in mainstream wrestling when done right, but you can't have two guys go into a blood feud working a calculated match only to burst out into freestyle fighting once it's time to go home. The HHH/Brock matches have been exactly this, barring Brock's amazing facials and natural aura, these guys have done nothing to evoke the visceral tension that should come out of the personal feud leading up to it. I don't buy the crowd being emotionally drained by the Taker/Punk match, Wrestlemania 17 had the crowd lively for every match, and big matches weren't really paced with proper bathroom break periods. Was the Brock/HHH awkwardly positioned on the card? Yeah, but it's clear that there's a lack of chemistry between both guys when they go through the motion to the sound of crickets, only for a momentary pop as they went home with the Kimura finish. Did HHH really need this win? Seriously, is the man hoping for a page crash everytime we click on the "accolades and accomplishements" section of his Wikipedia profile? Brock was great, brought his A-Game and all that Jazz, but what are the beneficial long-term effects of this loss? HHH is transitioning into an on-air/off-air Authority figure, was this match the best they could come up with to capitalise on their huge Lesnar investement? The fans have proven twice now that they're just not into this feud.. No one wants to see a rubber out of this. Moral of this story? The WWE could've gotten more bang for their buck out of another failed Linda McMahon Senate Campaign than Brock's multi-million dollar contract .
> 
> ...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pretty cool idea, Cal. That's gonna take some time to construct.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Pretty cool idea, Cal. That's gonna take some time to construct.


I put mine together in about 2 minutes . But was just wondering if anyone had an potential better ideas for the structure of it lol .


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just got home from Wrestlemania weekend.

Axxess was cool. A bit unorganized, but it was my first time some maybe that's how it is every year. However, I still had a blast. Met Big E along with Summer Rae & Paige and got pics. It was a lot of fun overall.

And I'm downloading Wrestlemania now, but obviously it goes without saying that it was a blast live and an incredibly rewarding experience. Just going off being their live, I thought the 3 main events delivered and there was only really one match I would consider flat out bad (Ryback/Henry) on the undercard. I haven't got a chance to read everyone's reactions to the show, but I thought it was really good. Maybe my mind will sway some once I watch it again, but for now it was a really good show live. Finally, seeing Taker live at Mania is just something else. Seriously, worth the price of admission alone and every expense that came with the trip. Just unbelievable to see firsthand.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I wanna try! First go for the perfect Mania:

WWE Title Match: Hogan vs. Warrior
World Title: Benoit vs. HHH vs. HBK
Streak Match: Taker vs. Punk
IC Title Match: Steamboat vs. Savage
US Title Match: Cena vs. Big Show
High Profile #1: Rey vs. Cody or Orton vs. Kane (seriously, I couldn't think of ANYTHING else )
High Profile #2: Hart vs. Austin
Tag Title Match: Mania 17 TLC
Women's Title: Trish vs. Mickie


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

3 matches the same as me . I didn't bother with the US title because it's barely been defended and isn't exactly important any more. At least the IC title has a history and was around on WM when it meant something lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ah yeah, didn't even notice the US Title missing.  It obviously can be incredibly interchangeable depending on which WWE Title match you go with. Hogan/Warrior, Cena/HBK, Punk/Jericho, Angle/Lesnar, etc.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Not sure about all of the others, but streak match HBK/Taker WM25 for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought it would be harder to put together my list, given than I can't use anyone more than once, but fuck, turned out to be easy as shit since I had a nice list of matches due to reviewing ever WM .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> SO MUCH Mania talk, it's hard to keep up. I'm still in awe of Punk's amazing performance. MVP of Mania by a mile & certainly in the best match of the night. Random thought but I also wanna put emphasis on exactly HOW MUCH better Elimination Chamber was than Mania this year. Look at the comparisons:
> 
> Del Rio/Show (***1/4) > Del Rio/Swagger (**1/2) & anything else on the Mania undercard
> Shield/Cena&Friends (*** 3/4) > Shield/OrtonSheamusShow (***)
> ...


So much of this...I kind of agree on but in all honestly I don't. WM raped Elimination Chamber. All Chamber had out of what was listed was the incredible Shield 6 man. Which the WM match wasn't too far behind. Not to mention the Chamber match this year was garbage outside of Henry for about 7 minutes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WWE Title Match: Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar
WHC Match: Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels
IC Title Match: Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage
US Title Match: John Cena vs Big Show
Tag Team Title Match: TLC II
Women's Title Match: Mickie James vs Trish Stratus
High Profile Match 1: Bret Hart vs Stone Cold
High Profile Match 2: Hulk Hogan vs The ROCK
Streak Match: Undertaker vs Randy Orton

Not quite a great card with Rey, Eddie and Jericho missing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I completely forgot about Hogan vs. Rock when making my list. 


HayleySabin said:


> So much of this...I kind of agree on but in all honestly I don't. WM raped Elimination Chamber. All Chamber had out of what was listed was the incredible Shield 6 man. Which the WM match wasn't too far behind. Not to mention the Chamber match this year was garbage outside of Henry for about 7 minutes.


Well, you know I disagree strongly on the Chamber match so I won't get into that. Definitely thought DelRio/Show was structured better and a lot more fun than Del Rio/Swagger. I liked Shield's Mania match but I don't feel it had the importance nor the chaotic qualities that their Chamber match offered, which was ridiculously good and had a much better ending too. All in all I just had a better time watching EC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I completely forgot about Hogan vs. Rock when making my list.
> 
> Well, you know I disagree strongly on the Chamber match so I won't get into that. Definitely thought DelRio/Show was structured better and a lot more fun than Del Rio/Swagger. I liked Shield's Mania match but I don't feel it had the importance nor the chaotic qualities that their Chamber match offered, which was ridiculously good and had a much better ending too. All in all I just had a better time watching EC.


Outside of the Shield match, the other match from Chamber I dug was Cesaro vs Miz. So without that even mentioned it was a clear cut no contest for me when it comes to comparing the two. Both events had a terrible main event so they share one common trait no matter which way someone chooses. The progression of PPVs this year has gone like this for me:

Royal Rumble: Crap. Best match was a decent tag team match where both have had much, much better outings. Punk vs Rock was one of the worst matches of the year.

Elimination Chamber: One great match, a good match & a solid affair (Show/ADR) and the rest can go away. At least this had matches I liked on it. A major step up.

WrestleMania: Consistent as hell until the main event. Loved this show. Had a blast watching. Arguable WWE MOTY in Taker vs Punk happened put this event over the top in my eyes.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sitting in the Tucson airport waiting for a plane and just watched Trips/Lesnar from last night. As one of the biggest Trips fans ever, I hope that is the last Mania match he wins. I suppose it was a cool moment for him to get a "big" Mania win, which he hasn't had in a while. Not like he hadn't already had a bunch of great moments. The last big Mania moment he had was 2002 when he won the Undisputed title. The only other wins he had was retaining the WHC against Booker in 2003 and beating Sheamus in 2010. Hardly "big" moments.

Match was decent. Not more than *** 1/2. Better than Summerslam, partly because of the finish. I honestly think Paul Heyman deserves performance of the night, especially since he did double duty with Punk and Lesnar. He was just masterful.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm really surprised by how much you enjoyed the show Cody. I agree in consistency but it was just consistently 'decent' for me. I really wouldn't put anything OVER the *** mark from the undercard and most of it fell just under that. Just sort of average. Tag Title match was the stickout for me just because of how much fun it was. Jericho/Fandango suffered from a weird, half-botched last minute or two.

But yes, Cesaro/Miz was going along very well until the abrupt ending, despite me not mentioning it. I'll rewatch at some point but Punk's performance in the 2nd Rock match was pretty great, can't hate on the match as a whole too much despite Rock's shittyness.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I enjoyed the show, but upon waking up, I felt very grouchy, and disappointed. While I enjoyed the match Lesnar/Haitch had, I can't help but also feel let down. Most of the other matches had some flaws, especially Jericho/Fandango. Start was great, middle & end fell so flat. And in the end, I didn't feel the PPV was a very worthwhile time investment. Frustrating. Even though, I still did enjoy it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Doing a "Perfect WM" for my WM special video, similar to what I did for my Perfect PPV - 2000 thingy a while back (http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?cat=49). Obviously I can't follow the same rules due to different titles being around at different times and shit, but I've narrowed the structure down to this:
> 
> WWE Title Match *Angle vs. Lesnar (Wanted Hogan/Warrior but technically that was for the IC Title as well)*
> WHC Match *HHH vs. HBK vs. Benoit*
> ...


Mine in bold


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm really surprised by how much you enjoyed the show Cody. I agree in consistency but it was just consistently 'decent' for me. I really wouldn't put anything OVER the *** mark from the undercard and most of it fell just under that. Just sort of average. Tag Title match was the stickout for me just because of how much fun it was. Jericho/Fandango suffered from a weird, half-botched last minute or two.
> 
> But yes, Cesaro/Miz was going along very well until the abrupt ending, despite me not mentioning it. I'll rewatch at some point but Punk's performance in the 2nd Rock match was pretty great, can't hate on the match as a whole too much despite Rock's shittyness.


To me, the show went in the direction I was hoping it would have. That's where so much fun came in from me. I wasn't expecting a slew of "really good" matches in the undercard (pardon the 6 man) So seeing the undercard get a good bit of time in each match and being worked next to exact how they all should have been, well I can't complain. Once Langston exhausted his 3 moves I said "oh, he's done in the match." and then he was :lmao So, WWE didn't try to do any booking gambles by having a match be in the seconds category or have someone green in Langston do too much to hurt a match. I thought Jericho vs Fandango had a great booked finish too. Sucked Jericho didn't quite have the room needed to hit the lionsault spot in better fashion, but at least it sort of went hand in hand with the "oh, he hurt his knee" angle. Fandango sneaking in the upset left both smelling like a rose. Same with Henry vs Ryback too. Henry earns the win - like he should - and Ryback has a WM moment in hitting the Shellshock. Works out well for everyone. Opener was :clap Orton doesn't go heel like so many people assumed for whatever reason, so I guess I got proven _"right"_ & he loses to The Shield. I was left happy.

Yeah, Punker did the work in the rematch. For that, it topped their first match. Overall, it was still a poor affair with a bleh, obvious ending. It didn't do much for me except for being called a _"Punk carryjob where he tried"._


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think *KOK *has gotten to The Rock, guys. He's not there for Raw. Somebody help.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Always glad to help out.

:cena2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone have any good YouTube links for this year's Elimination Chamber match & Shield vs. Team Cena? Every one I've found has the picture really stretched out or shrunk or something. Dailymotion would be fine too but YT seems to run much better on my computer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Obvious good result aside, KOK, how about that Cena vs Rock rematch? 8*D


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I think *KOK *has gotten to The Rock, guys. He's not there for Raw. Somebody help.


So this means we'll never get Rock vs. Sandow?



... not like we were getting it anyway. 

CURSE YOU KOK! :angry:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena vs Miz
Hogan vs Andre

The only Wrestlemania main events worse than Rock-Cena II.

I don't need to say anything else.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Rawk said:


> So this means we'll never get Rock vs. Sandow?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Save us RAWK


----------



## 777 (Feb 24, 2011)

Shield made the opener, they're what I wanted to see and they didn't fail to do what I like seeing them do. 

I was actually pretty impressed with ADR/Swagger. Some very nice, well thought out spots, combined with the overall atmosphere and the over-the-top antics of Zeb and Rodriquez, made this match a fun watch.

If I were to do it all over again, I'd pay the $60 just to watch that Punk/Taker match in that big show atmosphere. Phenomenal. Best in show. It absolutely lived up to, nay, exceeded my expectations.

Enjoyed the extreme violence of Brock/HHH. Had some flaws but overall was solid and I really liked the finishing stretch even if I didn't like the result. 

I literally fell asleep during Rock vs Cena II. Partially from burnout, partially from boredom. Once they started the plodding headlocks I dropped off and missed the apparent finisher kick-outs. Awoke to Cena's music and him with the title...but I did get to see the look on the Rock's face as they went to the back.

Disappointed that I didn't get to see the 8-way. No I'm not being sarcastic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rock's usage has ran out. 

He lost 1-2-3, saluted the GOAT, and left the stage for the GOAT to end the show.

He'd be better used as jizz mop for the GOAT and KENDRA LUST @ this point.

FUCKAMANIA XXX.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena vs Miz
> Hogan vs Andre
> 
> The only Wrestlemania main events worse than Rock-Cena II.
> ...




You know the scenario is poor when Trips vs Orton at WM 25 isn't looking so bad these days.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trips/Orton is decent compared to that awful, awful match.

I'm ashamed to live in a world where people consider Rock-Punk I & II as well as Rock-Cena II to be good. Rock-Cena I gets a pass because it actually isn't even BAD at all, as a matter of fact it's actually quite decent ... Just not for a Wrestlemania main event. Why don't we take a look at the last five Wrestlemania main events shall we?

HHH/Orton
HBK/Taker
Jiz/Cena
Rock/Cena
Rock/Cena

HMMM. It's almost like one of those matches just doesn't belong next to the other ; must be Rock-Cena II.

In all seriousness though, the quality of Wrestlemania main events over the years has been way shittier than you would think.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena vs Miz
> Hogan vs Andre
> 
> The only Wrestlemania main events worse than Rock-Cena II.
> ...


Bret/Yokozuna


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Trips from 22 is another average main event to be thrown into the mix. Trips vs Batista is pretty poor too. Ha, it seems the final match at WrestleMania hasn't been too good about half of the time...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

*WRESTLEMANIA 29 REVIEW (Complete w/PARENTAL COMMENTARY~~!)*​
*Preface:* Hours before showtime I was actually getting pretty excited about the event. I should also note that I didn't have any lofty expectations about a Cena heel turn or any of the matches outside of the big 3. I did hope for a Ziggler cash-in, but didn't have my heart set on it. The stadium and production value was off the charts, and it did come across as quite the spectacle on TV. Along with that, though, comes the weak interpretation of the crowd, as is the issue with most dome shows. All that aside, I had a ton of fun watching it w/my parents. Dad BBQ'd burgers and we were entertained (for the most part) throughout. Like always, it's fun getting the perspective of now-casual fans who used to watch fairly religiously.

Now for the match breakdown:

*SHIELD vs Jobber Trio* - Dad was in the middle of cooking burgers but stopped once he saw Reigns. "Hey, isn't that the guy I like?!? I like that guy. You guys mind if we hold off on dinner until this is over?" Sure thing, Dad. Shield were impressive, as usual. Awesome team work, really good showing for their first Mania even if it wasn't up to par with their other matches as far as quality is concerned. "Let's Go Ambrose!" chant = . Shield win, which was the right call. Some fun spots like the SPEARS~! and suicide dive from Rollins where it looked like he killed himself. Overall short and sweet opener. ***

LOL @ Show killing the other 2 jobbers after the match. Guess he's (still?) heel?

VIDEO PACKAGES~! Seriously, what the fuck was up with the "commercials" in between matches? Haven't we hyped up Rock/Cena enough? How hard do they need to try to get the crowd not to boo Cena? "I hate him, I really do." :lmao <3 my mom.

*Mark "Ratings" Henry vs Ryback* - Dad likes them both so burgers got postponed longer LOL. Really, a nothing match. Was surprised at the ending w/Henry going over, only for Ryback to hit his finisher after the match anyway. Guessing Henry could challenge Cena now. Dad was in awe of Ryback hitting Shell Shocked on Henry, especially considering Ryback failed the first time and it cost him the match (parents are now casuals, don't forget). *

*GOAT/Kane vs Ziggler/THIGHS* - Dad couldn't care less so he went back to cooking. Mom likes Ziggler (big shock) so her interest in Mania began with this match. Once she saw Bryan she said "Is that the YES/NO guy?" :lmao My mom is awesome. Short match, but like the opener, it was fun while it lasted. 18-second teaser spot was clever and a nice callback to last year. Legit thought the match could've ended there but I'm glad it didn't. Crowd finally came alive during this match, and it's obvious given the aftermath that Bryan was the reason why. Seeing everyone in the entire stadium standing and doing the "YES!" motion with their arms while simultaneously chanting it is one of the lasting impressions from last night's event. Truly a sight to behold. You could tell Danielson was even a bit in awe because he kind of stood there smiling and broke character a bit when he waved to the crowd. **1/4

*Y2J vs FanDANgo* - Dad was still cooking but Mom loves Jericho (mostly from Dancing with the Stars) so she watched. Pretty solid match with Jericho dominating the "rookie" for most of the match and Fandango getting a bit lucky at the end by capitolizing on Jericho's mishap. Jericho continues to give back to the company by elevating younger talent on PPV. Props to him for that. **3/4

*Swagger vs Del Rio* - To be honest we were all eating at this point so I didn't pay much attention to it other than the finish. Del Rio applied a pretty sweet looking Cross Armbreaker for the victory. Can't comment on much else. N/A

MORE VIDEO PACKAGES~~! By this point, my dad was getting pretty furious at all the "commercials" in between matches. "Didn't we pay for this shit? Why the fuck are we getting all these commercials?" "Well, they are wrestling ads, Dad." "I don't give a fuck." Touche, Dad. Touche. Funny how those ads seemed to cater to the casual crowd yet the two casuals I was watching with were wondering why the fuck they paid for ads :lmao. Interesting note, and a little insight as to how out of touch Vince truly is at times.

*THE FUCKING UNDERTAKER vs CM Punk* - Dad was pretty surprised to see Taker fighting again, and by "surprised" I mean "really fucking excited." I didn't tell either of them who would be on the card, as I wanted them to be a bit surprised for the Taker and GAME matches. All they knew about was Rock/Cena (which they were pretty stoked about, but only if Rock won), but after all the adverts, how could they not? :lmao I GUESS THAT WAS THE POINT VINCE WAS TRYING TO MAKE - ONLY ONE MATCH MATTERS. Parents were pretty bummed to hear about the passing of Paul Bearer (pre-match promo was the first time they had heard about it). It did spawn a pretty awesome debate on other LEGIT managers throughout the history of the business. Mom kept throwing out names like "Sable" and "Sunny" and all Dad said was, "those don't count - they're women." :lmao :lmao We came up with a pretty good list including Elizabeth & Sherri (exceptions to the above rule), Virgil, Mr. Fuji, The Brain, Jimmy Hart, etc. Back to the match...

Dad: "He has the best entrance in the history of wrestling. Triple H spitting water is pretty cool, but nothing tops this." Amen. Mom agreed. Dad chimed in with: "For someone who claims to be straight edge he sure looks like he's on something" in reference to Punk. :lmao Mom thought he looked older than Taker. I reassured them that it was just the buzzed head. :side: I wasn't sure myself how this match would pan out after the last 4 amazing Taker matches @ Mania. Dad tried hard to sell Mom on the fact that Taker is "20-0" at this event, as if Mom didn't already know (even though they're casuals they have a pretty good knowledge of the product when it comes to the older wrestlers) but she's kind enough to play along. What a saint, she is. None of us really saw Punk as much of a threat, but they did an excellent job suspending my disbelief, especially with the Urn spot. Smart stuff with the teasing of the spots that Taker can't really perform anymore. Selling and facial expressions from both were GOAT-worthy as was expected. "Undertaker is top 3 all-time," said Dad. I'd have to agree. Both parents were legit clapping and cheering when Undertaker won, and both were blown away at the match. "He's so fucking cool," Dad kept repeating. Truly special stuff witnessing that guy compete even if it's once a year. "That was worth the cost of the entire show," said Mom. Again, I'd have to agree. Dad thought it was the best match he'd seen since, well... last year's Taker match. For me, it wasn't quite on par with the two HBK matches, nor the two HHH matches, but it was definitely on par with the vs Edge and vs Batista matches imo, which both were around the ****1/2 mark, so ****1/2 is probably not a bad estimate. (Aside: not really all that into issuing star ratings these days but since this forum seems to live and die by them I'll oblige if you're one of those people who skips to the bottom of each paragraph in search of a rating.) ****1/2 (in case you missed it above)

*THE GAME vs :brock~!* - Dad nearly shat himself when he found out Hunter was on the card. Mom wasn't far behind. "Dishes can wait," she said. Fairly sure she just wanted to see her boytoy HBK.  "Jesus Christ" and "Holy shit" were the first two descriptive phrases used by me and Dad when Lesnar made his entrance. "People aren't supposed to look like that. He makes Ryback look like Hornswoggle." :lmao Have I mentioned that my parents are awesome? Lack of crowd reaction to BROCK = THEY'RE SCARED. Dad thought Hunter looked pretty good for his age, but still paled in comparison to BROCK. "This guy is badass," repeated over and over by Dad, who kept trying to explain BROCK's accolades to my mom as if he was Michael Cole or something. Funny stuff. "Hunter isn't really going to retire, is he? They wouldn't make him do that, would they?" Innocent, saint of a mother, I have. I can't stress enough how in awe we all were of Lesnar's presence. Call the match "slow," "boring," "plodding," whatever. Brock's aura is enough to keep me captivated for an entire match, regardless of pace. The dude legit looks like a freak. Match was worked at a more deliberate pace, albeit stiff and fairly brutal. Dad rewound the first belly to belly overhead throw on the outside + the following suplex through the announce table. Brock clearly doesn't care for his own well-being (nor HBK's, as I'm fairly certain he broke Shawn's nose with that elbow when Shawn made the MISTAKE OF HIS LIFE by getting on the apron), and his recklessness brings his matches to another level. Crowd being dead made sense considering what came before this match (whoever laid out the timing of the card should be fired), but it also played into Brock's character. People just don't know how to react to him. "I'm seriously scared," my dad said. Exactly my point. Both parents didn't really want Trips nor Lesnar to lose, but their clapping when Hunter won made it obvious who they preferred in the end. Not surprising, as their favorites over the years are far and away Taker, HBK, and Triple H. "The other guys just can't do it like these older guys can." Dad kind of has a point here. As much shit as we give Vince for bringing these part-timers back, the casuals do want to see them compete, even if it's once a year. For instance, the Taker match wouldn't have worked with anyone else. It's Taker. It's Mania. It's the streak. It can't be duplicated. Granted, the younger guys aren't really given the ball to run with the leeway the older guys have, but it's obvious that there is a fairly wide gap dividing top talent (Taker, HHH, Lesnar, Punk, Cena, Rock) from the rest of the roster. Bryan could be there if they let him. Crowd confirmed it last night. ****

Parents both stated after HHH/Lesnar that "this is one of the best PPVs we've bought in a long time." At the time, I agreed with them. Mania, despite its predictable nature, annoying pandering to Cena/Rock, and rushed undercard, was vastly entertaining. 

*Cena vs Rock* - "Cena better not win." Mom was the biggest Cena hater all night. "You don't like him, do you, Greg?" I relunctantly said no so as to avoid being disowned. It was priceless. I had a hard time breaking it to them that Cena was undoubtedly winning. "Really? Fuck." Dad got up and left to go watch TV in the other room. :lmao Mom stayed to watch, hoping that my prediction was wrong. Decent match with a pretty solid finishing sequence, albeit a bit finsiher-centric as most WWE main events are. I didn't mind much, as a few of them actually fooled me as false finishes. Cena was pretty great in the final 5-10 minutes. As I'm sure others have mentioned, him goading Rock with the People's Elbow spot was GOAT-worthy. Then a few more exchanged finishers and BAM. New champ. Mom left the room :lmao. I had a basketball game to rush to so I missed the lovefest that took place after the match. Probably about on par with last year's match, I'd guess? ***1/4

Overall, a fun experience even if there weren't any swerves or surprises. I didn't expect any so I wasn't really let down by much. Hope everyone enjoyed the read.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Two thirds of the Mania Main events have been sub-par at best TBH.

However, in this day and age there's no excuse for your main event match to be THAT bad. I know Cena should get shit for it too, but when I think about the legitimately good moments in the match, they all stem from JOHN BOY in some way shape or form. I mean one of my friends is a casual to the tee and he downright HATED the match and thought it was complete garbage. It went from DULL/BAD to just BAD in a matter of minutes, and essentially was almost as bad as it could have been. It wasn't as bad as the atrocity better known as the Rumble 2013 main event, but it was rubbish any way that you want to look at it. Watch for Cena to come out in the next few PPV main events and just KILL IT to prove to the world that he wasn't the problem in that shitty match; it was the Rock. Same way Punk left The Rock series and wrestled in the two prime classics that this year has produced so far.

I'll be glad if he doesn't show up again honestly.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm actually expecting RAW tonight to be good. Depending on how much time the Part Timers get compared to the full timers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

oh lord, Greg. I wasn't prepared for ALL of that. Well, lets see how long this takes to read it word for word. ~!


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

You're dad's commentary is notably better than the commentators last night.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Sheamus vs. Brock needs to happen. Their styles are very stiff and would mesh well together.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Greg, your Dad has the right idea about Undertaker. A brilliant man.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> oh lord, Greg. I wasn't prepared for ALL of that. Well, lets see how long this takes to read it word for word. ~!


 Should've prepped you guys for it. My bad~!



MoveMent said:


> You're dad's commentary is notably better than the commentators last night.


It legit makes the PPVs 10x better.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Awesome write-up, TLK. The overuse of the :lmao smiley comes across as hilarious all over the post. Didn't read the entire thing but did do a quick read through most of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMG, "he makes Ryback look like Hornswoggle." :lmao Great read, TLK.

And YES to Sheamus vs. Lesnar. God that would be so MANLY.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TLK that was AWESOME.

I might actually give in and watch Mania today. Maybe I'll record it so I can fast-forward through the Rock/Cena video packages and all the overblown WrestleMania entrances. I'll probably regret it, but it's hard not to watch a big WWE show that has so much interest surrounding it. Even if 'interest' is 'man fuck that kimura spot and I hope the Rock DIES'. I could always stop half-way through anyway. Ah fuck I'll jut wait until the matches turn up online and watch them in 2016.

I doubt I'll be watching WWE other than the occasional PPV now and then. Nothing new, but even the things that interested me post-Chamber have been sort of stained. They've given Cesaro who was pretty much their best wrestler a yodelling gimmick, and Danielson's still being forced to ride the Kane train. Mark Henry is my favourite wrestler in the world and it will take him being in a meaningful Ryback-less program for me to watch the product. I;d prefer a World Title run, but if you're not going to give him that then at least give him a Christian or Rey Mysterio feud. Mistico is a flop and you fucking know it. Let Rey have his final years on his own. OOH Jericho. I'm over Jericho at this point and even looking back at his peak he doesn't really hold up, but I'd be all for a Mark Henry feud with him. They had a damn good match in 2004 where Henry looked to be carrying most of the load back then and Henry's only gotten fifty times better since then. Give Henry Danielson... or Del Rio... or Sheamus, or, FUCK, even Orton. I'd be willing to watch Henry in just about anything as long as I think there's a decent amount of potential with the opponent he gets. I've never been a John Cena guy and I'm honestly beyond tired of him at this point no matter how many good matches he can have a year (and he can), but goddamn, Henry v Cena could be your modern day Sting v Vader. Oh fuck have I gone on a ramble about Mark Henry again? Forgive me, but I'm still not over Elimination Chamber and people have said the next logical thing to do is make the WWE Title program John Cena v Mark Henry. I've had it with Cena, but I'm a total Henry guy and the idea of him being in the WWE Title program with the #1 guy in wrestling is sort of exciting. I better not get my hopes up otherwise it will be another total Lucy With the Football moment. I'll expect the worst.

So, Henry's got Ryback for the rest of his career, then?


----------



## Callisto (Aug 9, 2009)

777 said:


> Disappointed that I didn't get to see the 8-way. No I'm not being sarcastic.


Psh, I'd be pissed if I found out my match was being scrapped off the card, especially at a Wrestlemania. That's one succulent, fat paycheck down the drain.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Awesome, *TLK*. Really enjoyed reading that lol. Great perspective from your parents. Nice read.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

So wait we have to see window lickers embarass themselves on TOUT and yet your saint of a dad is kept away and only accessible after a big PPV? Injustice. Send the damn Shield. Give your Dad a live mic and have him praise Taker and take a giant shit on anything not named Mark Henry, Cesaro, motivated Cena, Bryan & Punk & Naomi's ass.

And if that didn't confirm my thoughts, that was indeed a super read. Differing thoughts on HHH/Lesnar & Rock/Cena, but otherwise largely the same thoughts.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

- Brock/Taker (Unforgiven 2002) ****1/2 _(amazing)_
- Brock/Taker (No Mercy 2002) ***1/2 _(this was amazing as well, but then Taker did the Chokeslam with the BROKEN FREAKIN' HAND, and the match went down the crapper)_


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think we are all in agreement that TLK's parents are awesome. Good write up, too. (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Awesome, *TLK*. Really enjoyed reading that lol. Great perspective from your parents. Nice read.


<3



WOOLCOCK said:


> So wait we have to see window lickers embarass themselves on TOUT and yet your saint of a dad is kept away and only accessible after a big PPV? Injustice. Send the damn Shield. Give your Dad a live mic and have him praise Taker and take a giant shit on anything not named Mark Henry, Cesaro, motivated Cena, Bryan & Punk & Naomi's ass.
> 
> And if that didn't confirm my thoughts, that was indeed a super read. Differing thoughts on HHH/Lesnar & Rock/Cena, but otherwise largely the same thoughts.


:lmao @ "window-lickers." Yeah, I figured I'd be a bit biased with the HHH/Lesnar match, but I did highly enjoy it. I'm actually OK with the Hunter winning because it didn't feel like his last match when I was watching the match unfold. Wouldn't have felt quite right going out that way. Just a shame that it comes at Brock's expense.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I think we are all in agreement that TLK's parents are awesome. Good write up, too. (Y)


<3


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Man I wish I had parents who paid attention to the PPV's I watched and had those opinions. I think it's awesome. Great report btw.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena vs Miz
> Hogan vs Andre
> 
> The only Wrestlemania main events worse than Rock-Cena II.
> ...











Come on son


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LT/Bam Bam wasn't as bad as Miz/Cena imo.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't understand why Del Rio/Swagger has gotten overlooked so much. This feud is what people have been asking for. Swagger's character has been built and protected properly, the feud itself is the only feud that had proper build for Mania and they delivered a solid match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JOHN CENA VS MARK HENRY IS HAPPENING TONIGHT HOLY SHIT.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

The heel turn comment by Cena was classic. More of that Cena, please.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

MoveMent said:


> I don't understand why Del Rio/Swagger has gotten overlooked so much. This feud is what people have been asking for. Swagger's character has been built and protected properly, the feud itself is the only feud that had proper build for Mania and they delivered a solid match.


Because they both suck and are boring.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OH MY GOD, the crowd is chanting for Ziggler...... :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JOHN CENA AND DOLPH ZIGGLER ARE OUR WORLD CHAMPIONS.

THERE IS A GOD. FUCK YOU DEL RIO! FUCK YOU ROCK! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

WRESTLING IS AWESOME AGAIN!

DOLPH.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:mark: :mark: :yes :yes

DOLPH ZIIIIIIGLER!!!!

Also :lmao at Miz losing the IC Title.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I just had one of the biggest MARK OUT MOMENTS OF MY LIFE. DOLPH ZIGGLER just cashed in 10 MINUTES away from my apartment! I went to No Way Out last June and ZIGGLER got a HUGE pop against Sheamus. SO HAPPY for him! Ziggler did it and did it in NJ!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THIS LAST NIGHT?

DOLPH DOLPH DOLPH DOLPH DOLPH.

The cream ALWAYS rises to the top OHHH YEEEAAAAHHHH!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

FUCK YES ZIGGLER. What an awesome moment. I marked hard.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fuck man, what a pop. Awesome moment for Ziggler. He deserved it.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Don't care for Ziggler. But, the segment was awesome. Great crowd.

Shame for him that the WHC is worthless. But we'll definitely expect some great PPV matches from him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Perhaps we're getting a CM GOAT and UNDERGOAT segment now? :mark:.

DOLPH.

EDIT: OH MY FUCKING GOD. OH MY GOD.

OH MY FUCKING GOD.

FUCK. GOD. ORGASM. JESUS. FUCK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMG, I'm like sweating right now from the amount of jumping and fist pumping I did. :lol

The possibilities for Extreme Rules are INSANE right now. Cena/Henry, Ziggler/Del Rio/Swagger.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW!?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD DAMN IT YOU CAN'T MARK OUT ANY MORE THAN I AM RIGHT NOW.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ziggler winning the World Heavyweight title AND a potential Shield vs Team Hell NO/Taker match. :mark:

I need a cigarette to cool off. This RAW has been awesome.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Daniel Bryan getting that RUB. NICE.

Theres your 6 man tag for EXTREME RULES. (Maybe? 

We could have used Teddy Long in that segment.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yep, this Raw has been legit good so far. Crowd has been superb. Shield and Taker potentially interacting = :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HOLY MOTHER OF CHRIST

Cena vs. Henry Extreme Rules for the WWE Title
Ziggler/Del Rio/Swagger for the World Title
Brothers of Destruction and GOAT vs. Shield

Extreme Rules could be a serious GOAT SHOW contender. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD DAMN IT UNDERTAKER YOU MAGNIFICENT FUCKER.

TEAM HELL NO/TAKER VS THE SHIELD (NO DQ) = JIZZ.

WWE MAKING UP FOR THEIR AWFUL WRESTLEMANIA.

Actually I take that back. Taker-Punk and SHIELD made the show actually pretty good.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Fuck yeah if those turned out to be the three matches I'd be extremely happy.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

ZIGGLER :mark: #JERSEY


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Ziggler needs to work on his damn shitty promo work. Otherwise, I'm stoked for this title run. Could feature some INSANE matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

After Ziggler gets through Del Rio & Swagger, he needs to feud with a returning Christian. Forget about Orton, Sheamus, or Show.

Or Jericho. :mark:


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

This crowd is amazing. Even for the 6 man jobfest. I've never been more proud to be from NJ :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

While on commercial, BRYAN :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> JOHN CENA VS MARK HENRY IS HAPPENING TONIGHT HOLY SHIT.


wh...........what...?



ShowStopper '97 said:


> The heel turn comment by Cena was classic. More of that Cena, please.


What?



KingOfKings said:


> JOHN CENA AND DOLPH ZIGGLER ARE OUR WORLD CHAMPIONS.


WHAT!?



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Also :lmao at Miz losing the IC Title.


WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!!?!?!!?

Who's the IC Champ? Barrett again?


Ziggler should really get a face turn now. What exactly is stopping them? He's never been that good at getting heat and gets cheered any time he's out there. He's barely a heel. I don't like people cheering the heels, but when it happens this much it's pretty obvious you should just tun the motherfucker that's being cheered.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> :mark: :mark: :yes :yes
> 
> DOLPH ZIIIIIIGLER!!!!
> 
> Also :lmao at Miz losing the IC Title.





ShowStopper '97 said:


> I just had one of the biggest MARK OUT MOMENTS OF MY LIFE. DOLPH ZIGGLER just cashed in 10 MINUTES away from my apartment! I went to No Way Out last June and ZIGGLER got a HUGE pop against Sheamus. SO HAPPY for him! Ziggler did it and did it in NJ!





AlienBountyHunter said:


> FUCK YES ZIGGLER. What an awesome moment. I marked hard.





1999 Rejex said:


> Fuck man, what a pop. Awesome moment for Ziggler. He deserved it.


:mark: (Y)

I marked so hard, but I was cautious to not go TOO CRAZY because I have my family sleeping upstairs, and neighbors that don't want to be woken up next door, the joys of watching Ziggler become the new World Champion at 2am in the morning. :lol

My post on it in the RAW thread: 



Nostalgia said:


> So glad Ziggler's the new World Champion. The crowd went crazy for him. Finally after all those months of him holding the MITB briefcase, all the waiting, anticipation, the morons who would say he would fail the cash-in, he did it. Of course I'm not expecting much of reign, a few months being the absolute most I could see, I just hope he won't be a transitional champion and drop it at the Extreme Rules PPV. But I'm going to enjoy every moment of it while it lasts, instead of getting all pessimistic about when it will end.


Hoping it will be a triple threat extreme rules match at the Extreme Rules PPV for the World Title. Would be awesome. Hoping Ziggler won't lose at the title at Extreme Rules. :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll catch you up, Yeah1993. 

Cena kicked off the night with a promo, mentioned the heel turn and said it wasn't happening. Said he wanted it to be a big night so he'd defend the belt tonight. Name dropped a few guys until MARK's music hits. Words were said, Cena agreed to give him a shot, but out came Booker. Booker says is Henry can beat Cena tonight, THEN he'll get a shot at the belt. So the main event is Cena vs. Henry tonight.

Del Rio vs. swagger & Zeb in a handicap match. Swagger attacked Del Rio's ankle but ADR wins with the armbar. He's injured, so OUT COMES ZIGGLER. Couple minute mark out fest of a match until the Zig Zag and ZIGGLER WINS THE BELT!

Miz lost the IC Title back to Wade tonight. :lol


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> :mark: (Y)
> 
> I marked so hard, but I was cautious to not go TOO CRAZY because I have my family sleeping upstairs, and neighbors that don't want to be woken up next door, the joys of watching Ziggler become the new World Champion at 2am in the morning. :lol
> 
> ...


Awesome sig, man.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

DOES THE CROWD WANT EL GENERICO!?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

A "MIKE CHIODA" CHANT! :lmao

BEST CROWD EVER.

Now an RVD CHANT :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CROWD HATES SHEAMUS-ORTON :lol :lol :lol.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

JBL CHANT~!

This is a fantastic crowd. In between them going NUTS~! for Wade Barrett, chanting for the GOAT referee, and now chanting for JBL, they're entering my top five for best crowds ever.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

JBL! JBL! JBL!

Was that seriously an RVD chant??? OMG I love this!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Incredible crowd. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For the love of Allah, this crowd is amazing. Bless this world!

Man this Orton/Sheamus match is dudworthy. Why are they performing rest holds on each other so early into the match?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

RANDY SAVAGE and HBK CHANTS LOL

"THANK YOU BIG SHOW" as he ends the match Lolololol OMG


----------



## HOLY S**T 123 (Jun 28, 2011)

the crowd does not give a fuck about this match and why should they?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

This crowd has been awesome all night, but it's been hilarious in this Sheamus/Orton match. I haven't been paying attention to the match, I've just been listening to the crowd chants while I'm on my laptop and it's been entertaining. 

Edit: ''Thank you Big Show'' chants for interrupting the match. :lmao


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

This crowd went from great to annoying real quick. Nothing worse than a crowd just chanting to get themselves over.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Arda Ocal ‏@arda_ocal 8m

Full list of crowd chants: Chioda, Ole, RVD, Big Show, JBL, Jerry, Cole, Justin Roberts, CM Punk, Y2J, Austin, XPac, ECW, Savage, HBK. #RAW


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That's gotta be the first time Mike Chioda has ever had his name chanted surely? Great crowd, this Raw has been pretty awesome. Still Cena/Henry to come too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> This crowd went from great to annoying real quick. Nothing worse than a crowd just chanting to get themselves over.


SUPER DRAGON! . . ... SUPER DRAGON!


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The crowd redeemed itself by singing Fandango's theme. Just fantastic.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

If CM Punk isn't a part of the show with this crowd, I'm going to rage. He would fucking thrive.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fandango telling the crowd to say his name right despite just getting the shit kicked out of him was absolutely FANTASTIC. Definitely going to be one of the most underrated things that comes out of this show for sure, the guy knows his character and he's putting himself into it 100 percent, impressive work so far by Curtis.

We'll probably get an awesome gimmick match between the two @ ER as well. FUCK that's shaping up to be one hell of a PPV. Why do I see some kind of weird Cena-Henry-Punk-Ryback triple threat/fatal fourway combination match at Extreme Rules instead of just Henry-Cena :lol?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> We'll probably get an awesome gimmick match between the two @ ER as well. FUCK that's shaping up to be one hell of a PPV. Why do I see some kind of weird Cena-Henry-Punk-Ryback triple threat/fatal fourway combination match at Extreme Rules instead of just Henry-Cena :lol?


Ugh, you're probably right...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk-Henry-Cena would own.

FUCK RYBACK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FUCK DWAYNE AND RYBACK. 

Lookin like Cena/Henry won't be getting as much time as it should.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> FUCK DWAYNE AND RYBACK.
> 
> Lookin like Cena/Henry won't be getting as much time as it should.


That's good though, it should be as short as possible as to not give away a PPV match that might happen soon on TV.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah if this match is going to happen at EC, then it shouldn't be too long tonight. How great would it be if Henry simply won clean, cementing his status as the top monster heel and can look like a legit threat to the title.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, you guys are right. I'm just too excited right now. haha


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yeah if this match is going to happen at EC, then it shouldn't be too long tonight. How great would it be if Henry simply won clean, cementing his status as the top monster heel and can look like a legit threat to the title.


That's what I'm hoping happens as well. Have Henry win clean, making him look strong going into his match with Cena at EC.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

So Punk's going to miss this crowd? Well, fuck. Worst RAW ever confirmed.

Crowd, you still have my respect.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Henry's entrance gave me goosebumps. No joke, guys.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Chanting Fandango's theme song should take the place of the "what" chant.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So...

Cena-Henry-Ryback or Cena-Ryback?

FUCK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did you call that or what? 

Really not sure how to feel about it. I think it was the right move to turn Ryback, it left a smile on my face when he gave the fuck you sign and held the belt up, but at the same time Henry is wasted & their matches are bound to be terrible... Either way, what a rollercoaster ride. Amazing RAW.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WAIT, Ryback is heel? 

I just thought he was a tweener now?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Interesting finish with the Ryback 'turn'. I guess it was a turn, hard to tell with the crowd cheering him that much :lol. Will be interesting to see what the title picture develops into, and also what Punk will do since he will be back next week.

Edit: Yeah, a tweener seems more likely. He will probably still do his arm thing and get 'feed me more' chants. Could be interesting.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't think THE Ryback turned heel turn. Anyway, I'm just happy we won't see thrice in a lifetime now . When Booker T said "ROCK still has his rematch clause" I thought it would be ROCK vs Cena again.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Don't think THE Ryback turned heel turn. Anyway, I'm just happy we won't see thrice in a lifetime now . When Booker T said "ROCK still has his rematch clause" I thought it would be ROCK vs Cena again.


Hey, it still could be...

At Wrestlemania 30 :argh:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Take away the crowd, and that was a really shitty show. But because of the crowd, that show was great. Loved it, so much fun.

That ring could've been empty for three hours and I would have enjoyed it, as long as that crowd was still just as great as they were.

No Punk sucked, big time. They would have popped huge. Shame they missed out on that.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Well that was played out pretty nicely, Ryback and Henry still have a feud to continue but now Ryback has attacked Cena. Pretty solid show


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Hey, it still could be...
> 
> At Wrestlemania 30 :argh:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ :lol

A shame Punk wasn't there tonight as him with that crowd would have been sweet. Best Raw in a while though. The actual in ring stuff was pretty bland, but a superb crowd and a Ziggler cash in made it very memorable.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

And fuck, Ryback's back in the spotlight. 

No good can come from this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm convinced that the WWE wants to give us the worst string of main event matches in history, that's why they're going ahead and doing this to us :lol

SERIOUSLY, we go from The Rock... TO RYBACK? What the fuck Vince.

Although I must say, I'm quite intrigued to see how a heel/tweener Ryback would perform in the ring. I'm going to project a step up from the last four main events already.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Henry-Punk-Cena.

Oh what could have been.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

1999 Rejex said:


> Henry-Punk-Cena.
> 
> Oh what could have been.


 Punk has lost like 4/5 big matches now. He shouldn't lose another.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

1999 Rejex said:


> Henry-Punk-Cena.
> 
> Oh what could have been.


Thank God we avoided that, imo. Punk doesn't need any more losing. 

Go on a break and come back with some wins, please, Punk.

Still, he should have been out there tonight. #stillmad


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd like for Punk to have a month or two off. He definitely deserves it. If for whatever reason he doesn't take time off, then a feud not involving the WWE title would be helpful, so then he can get some wins and simply be away from the title briefly.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm glad people are starting to appreciate FAN... DAN.... GOAT...


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The worst paart about Ryback is that no one cares when he is selling a beat down , hopefully he performs better with the role reversed.

Can you actually turn heel on Cena though? If anything this turned Ryback face at least with the smarks.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Punk has lost like 4/5 big matches now. He shouldn't lose another.





Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Thank God we avoided that, imo. Punk doesn't need any more losing.
> 
> Go on a break and come back with some wins, please, Punk.
> 
> Still, he should have been out there tonight. #stillmad


Yeah, I get that. Still would have made for an awesome main event for the EC PPV. I do agree that it's nice to see Punk given a break though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah that's what I was referring too ; his nonexistent selling being the main issue of his in ring game (next to his horrendous cardiovascular capacity). I'm interested to see him work a long heel control segment as I actually think he can make it pretty damn interesting (especially in a NO DQ environment @ Extreme Rules) depending on where they decide to go with this. If Cena vs Ryback is face vs face then it can honestly go fuck itself but since Ryback did the FUCK YOU gesture to Cena, he'll probably be more on the heelish side than ever.

No matter what though, Cena's not losing the title to Ryback. Hell, they just released a new shirt with his belt on it....... Essentially meaning he's holding onto that thing for the next 4-5 months AT LEAST.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Can anyone post a gif of cena mocking the elbow?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Ryback or Henry was the best choices. Punk/Cena needs to be saved for bigger events especially now that they've spent half of last year feuding they don't need to rush back into that.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I think Punk and Cena should stay away from each other until they main event Wrestlemania together. It could be a while, but I can only imagine how epic it would be. Worth the wait.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

dont wanna overdo Punk vs Cena

I welcome a return to the classic Cena vs challengers style of 2007. Lets hope we get great matches and the reign actually leads to something cool


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I'm sorry, but this is a GOAT picture.



> Bruno Sammartino
> ‏@SammartinoBruno
> @CMPunk @WWE @WWEUniverse @tripleh I reached out to CM PUNK to see what was message was on his fingers


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Seriously believe that Cena's holding that title until at least Summerslam no doubt.

You know what would actually interest the FUCK out of me at this point? If they built Fandango up for a random feud with Cena at a PPV or something like that. Seriously, why else have him debut against fucking JERICHO at WRESTLEMANIA? You could have everything kind of working out like this ;

Extreme Rules : Ryback
Payback : Ryback
MITB : Fandango
Summerslam : BROCK

Anyways, back to watching some actual WRESTLING MATCHES ATM.

EDIT : Good find. Bruno in the presence of CM GOAT is pretty damn awe inspiring.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> Seriously believe that Cena's holding that title until at least Summerslam no doubt.
> 
> You know what would actually interest the FUCK out of me at this point? If they built Fandango up for a random feud with Cena at a PPV or something like that. Seriously, why else have him debut against fucking JERICHO at WRESTLEMANIA? You could have everything kind of working out like this ;
> 
> ...


FAN... DAN... GOAT in the main event is cool with me.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I've been on the FANDANGO bandwagon for at least a month. Still on it. All aboard. FANDANGOAT.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I still want me a Cesaro push screw Fandango


----------



## Banjo (Sep 30, 2005)

Cena vs. Punk should absolutely happen at the Payback PPV in June. It's in Chicago, so that's a no brainer. It should be a Last Man Standing match or Hell in a Cell... something different from their previous matches. It could be really epic.

Also, I don't know if the Rock will wrestle again this year, but if he did, the perfect match would be John Cena & The Rock vs. CM Punk & Brock Lesnar. Look at the starpower in that one match. That match could main event any show WWE wants, from SummerSlam to Survivor Series to even WrestleMania. It'd be the biggest tag team match in years.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'll catch you up, Yeah1993.
> 
> Cena kicked off the night with a promo, mentioned the heel turn and said it wasn't happening. Said he wanted it to be a big night so he'd defend the belt tonight. Name dropped a few guys until MARK's music hits. Words were said, Cena agreed to give him a shot, but out came Booker. Booker says is Henry can beat Cena tonight, THEN he'll get a shot at the belt. So the main event is Cena vs. Henry tonight.


He didn't like, actually say 'heel turn' did he? That sounds like awful business-exposing crap. HENRY, though. This is the second year in a row Henry gets a WWE Title shot the night after being shafted at Mania. 



KingOfKings said:


> Why do I see some kind of weird Cena-Henry-Punk-Ryback triple threat/fatal fourway combination match at Extreme Rules instead of just Henry-Cena :lol?


That's disgusting.



KingOfKings said:


> So...
> 
> Cena-Henry-Ryback or Cena-Ryback?
> 
> FUCK.


omg Vince just does this to piss me off. Old turd. I don't care if you brought the pompadour back, I hate you.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So Rock got hurt at consecutive Mania's? 

So much fuckery now. Ryback loses 6 (?) PPV matches in a row. Looks like he's going to beat Mark Henry at Mania, but loses clean. They made that work I guess, to foreshadow the heel turn (which they should have done with Orton at Survivor Series, but I digress). THEN, they put a heel Ryback against Cena the night after Mania when it looks like Cena is about to run through some heels. 

LOL if Cena drops to the title to Ryback after one PPV. They can't have Punk hold the title for 434 days, then have 2, 3, or 4 guys play hot potato with it. Can't believe I'm saying this, but hopefully Cena keeps the belt for a bit, then drops it. 

Glad for Ziggler. Interesting to see how this Shield/Taker/Kane/Bryan thing plays out. I think we all expected Taker to disappear after Mania, but either this suggests otherwise, or WWE is just teasing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena was celebrating his WWE Championship win and started to dance ; leading him to say that he feels so good that he should dance, maybe "a little heel turn" in there as well. YEAH I KNOW. FUCK. TROLL CENA AT HIS FINEST. We're in the supposed "reality era", remember?

Well it looks like Cena-Ryback is going to be the program. Fuck it, it's not like Ryback's actually going to win or anything :lol.

YOU KNOW WHAT MATCH I WENT UP ON ALOT? The RAW MITB match from 2012. Used to have it at like one star and now I have it at a comfortable **** 1/4*. Actually superior to the SPOTFEST ladder match earlier in the evening with Cena and Big Show working their magic with a little bit of Y2J goodness on the side. Cena played such an awesome babyface role ; IN A FIVE MAN LADDER MATCH. DA FUCK?

They wouldn't give Cena a new shirt with the fucking title belt on it only for Cena to lose SAID BELT 1-2 months into the reign. Ryback's merely the first VICTIM. Fuck the WWE's choices for main event matches.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Just got home from work, and read Ziggler finally won the big one 

So excited now to see this, but gotta wait till tomorrow Fuck I hate living in Australia :lmao

If Taker/Kane/Goat vs Shield happens :mark::mark::mark:

Was looking forward to potentially seeing Cena/Henry but I must say I'm amused by a Tweener Ryback getting a shot at the title also, really don't want a Triple threat though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

SWEET JESUS

Watching Raw highlights on wwe.com. This crowd DID NOT disappoint. When Ziggler's music hit and when Justin Roberts announced Dolph was cashing in and when he got the pin they FUCKING ERUPTED. 

Read that the crowd were pretty amazing, but hearing them just made me go over the moon.

Edit: FUCK THEY SANG FANDANGO'S THEME

Well, Ryback finally got the reaction Vince wanted him to get. He just needed to turn heel on Cena in front of the best crowd 2013 will likely have. It's amazing: Shake Cena's hand, gets booed. Clotheslines Cena, crowd erupts.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WAIT.

WHY ISN'T ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT UNDERTAKER POTENTIALLY WRESTLING ON A TEAM WITH DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN AGAINST THE FUCKING SHIELD.

GOD DAMN IT :mark: :mark: :mark:.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker might wrestle at ER 2013 with Bryan and Kane. This means i won't have to wait another awful year to see the GOAT compete again. :mark:


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

This was the first Wrestlemania since 18 where I have no match ****. Taker/Punk was ***3/4 but I just didn't love it as much as I wanted to.

All in all it was a predictable crappy show. Raw tonight entertained me more.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Taker teaming up with Team Hell No vs The Shield may be the most hyped ill be for a match this year :mark::mark::mark:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Taker teaming up with Team Hell No vs The Shield may be the most hyped ill be for a match this year :mark::mark::mark:


Is it confirmed?


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Undertaker might wrestle at ER 2013 with Bryan and Kane. This means i won't have to wait another awful year to see the GOAT compete again. :mark:


It seemed like he was a notch below his usual for a Wrestlemania match last night. No tightrope walk or dive through the ropes. I wonder if he was saving some gas in the tank for ER?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Is it confirmed?


Didn't mean it in the way it's confirmed already, just said if it happens it may be the most hyped ill be for a match all year. 

Taker and Bryan in the same ring potentially :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Has INSANE MOTY potential for sure.

For my CENA project, I have 31 singles matches left to watch until I've seen every single fucking one of them... I randomized a list of matches completely and by chance the next two matches I'm going to watch are MIZ-CENA from OTL and TRUTH-CENA from Capitol Punishment.

Kill me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sids_chickenleg said:


> It seemed like he was a notch below his usual for a Wrestlemania match last night. No tightrope walk or dive through the ropes. I wonder if he was saving some gas in the tank for ER?


He went for Old School last night, but Punk countered it and yanked him down. 

They teased the suicide dive, but Heyman got on the apron and blocked it. 

My thinking is that I wouldn't have Taker, a man almost 50 go flying out of the ring head first. First of, we saw what happened at Mania 25, and second, the cell last year ensured that Taker wouldn't be diving out of the ring.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Has INSANE MOTY potential for sure.
> 
> For my CENA project, I have 31 singles matches left to watch until I've seen every single fucking one of them... I randomized a list of matches completely and by chance the next two matches I'm going to watch are MIZ-CENA from OTL and TRUTH-CENA from Capitol Punishment.
> 
> Kill me.


Have fun with that :lmao

Whilst I break open Bret Harts Dungeon Collecton :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

AWESOME DVD.

I have to post my write up on that one, I should get on that.

OH WAIT, I forgot how I'm preoccupied with these two fantastic match ups.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> AWESOME DVD.
> 
> I have to post my write up on that one, I should get on that.
> 
> OH WAIT, I forgot how I'm preoccupied with these two fantastic match ups.


Yer heard good things. 

If I'm not too lazy ill drop my review of it maybe tomorrow as well. 

Finally got Blu-ray Best of SD and Raw 2011 today as well :mark: 

Got so much good stuff to watch, I feel for you watching that crap. 

:cena3


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Really cool to see Wade Barrett do a Mick Foley homage with his "Bang Bang" and the elbow onto the floor.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

WM29 best to worst

Punk/Taker ****
*was awesome, my current MOTY*
HHH/Lesnar***1/2
*went into this match expecting nothing of note, they beat the sh*t out of each other*
Shield/TeamWWE ***
*match was hot throughout*
Rock/Cena ***
*thought they'd be on par with their first match, cant say I'm that disappointed in it. *
WWE tag titles ***
Ryback/ Henry **
ADR/ Swagger **
Fandango/Jericho *
Miz/Barrett *


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> WAIT.
> 
> WHY ISN'T ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT UNDERTAKER POTENTIALLY WRESTLING ON A TEAM WITH DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN AGAINST THE FUCKING SHIELD.
> 
> GOD DAMN IT :mark: :mark: :mark:.


I am. Well, now that I am logged on again I am.

The Undertaker & Tyler Black interactions. Umm. I can die now if this becomes legit.

Oh and speaking of legit, that entire RAW: legit. Nothing but. Good lord things were nearly as perfect as they could have been tonight. Fans during that terrible Sheamus vs Orton match were nothing short of :clap


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's official: the post-WM Raw is the best WWE TV night of the year. PERIOD.
Permission to say: this was the best Raw since 1000, or maybe even last year's WM afternight?

The fans were NUTS. All the chants I can remember from the Sheamus/Orton: Ole, ECW, Randy Savage, Thank you Big Show, HBK, RVD... pretty sure there were more. And this is how Extreme Rules is shaping now:

THE SHIELD VS TAKER/KANE/BRYAN :mark: (Pretty sure Cal marked at the possibility of Taker staying for a while)
Cena vs Ryback WWE Title
Ziggler vs ADR WHC Title
Show vs Orton vs Sheamus (I guess)

Pretty dope card. On paper, every PPV of this year looked very good (even WM, if you look at it closely). Let's hope ER continues that trend and also delievers and makes up for a PPV that's better than last year's (yes, that may be asking too much though since last year's was one of the GOAT WWE PPV's).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I think Undertaker wants one final run as a more regular wrestler and than bow out as the GOAT at WM30. Think of it as a swangsong.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Just got home from work, and read Ziggler finally won the big one


Didn't he already win something back in 2011, IIRC?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nobody seems to count it except for WWE though. Fans look at is as one big tease. Champ for about...5 official minutes. Didn't fly with the bunch by the looks of it. Not to speak for anyone else on the night, but those who wanted it got their validation tonight when Dolph cashed in to become the champ in a legit fashion.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Nobody seems to count it except for WWE though. Fans look at is as one big tease. Champ for about...5 official minutes. Didn't fly with the bunch by the looks of it. Not to speak for anyone else on the night, but those who wanted it got their validation tonight when Dolph cashed in to become the champ in a legit fashion.


This.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Later than everyone else:

Let's start with the pre-show. 54 minutes long and only 6 minutes of ring action. Ridiculous. Filled with promos that were shown again during the PPV anyway. Can't say I'm disappointed the 8-person tag was dropped but that they couldn't even fit it on the pre-show goes to show just how piss poor WWEs time management is.

*Shield/Faces - ***1/4*
Surprising that it opened. Shield's weakest match yet but could've been another classic had they gotten more time. I guess Big Show never technically turned face but the post-match breakdown still annoyed me.

*Henry/Ryback - 3/4**
Dull as dishwater to me; too long and too many boring bearhugs. Though in my mind all I was thinking was Bryan marking out backstage for it. Honestly prefer Lesnar/Goldberg to this match. Hilarious that Ryback didn't even win - he can't get a big match victory to save his life. Before the match I heard someone say "if Ryback doesn't win he may as well retire". :lmao Kudos to him for the Shellshock though.

*Hell No/Ziggler & Big E - **1/4*
I think this may have been the shortest match on the card so credit to the 4 of them for producing something decent. Excellent opening with the false finish and AJ kiss mirroring last year. I think the synchronised YESes at the end was my favourite moment of the night.

*Jericho/Fandango - ***
Was ok but not WrestleMania worthy and Jericho should've been doing something so much better. Fandango's entrance was probably the best bit. The missed Lionsault and 'knee tweaking' came across pretty bad.

*Del Rio/Swagger - ****
Can't really fault them for this. Zero emotional investment but technically very sound. Swagger getting a jobber entrance :clap

*Undertaker/Punk - ***3/4*
Match of the night as usual but Taker's worst WrestleMania encounter since 2006. The complete no selling of a GTS made me laugh. I think Punk's a cool guy but when he was doing Undertaker's taunt I couldn't help but think he looked like a malnourished crackhead that even I could take in a fight. God knows how a casual would've viewed him there.

*Lesnar/Triple H - ****
I was cautiously optimistic for this but I shouldn't have been. Underwhelming and worse than their Summerslam bout. Started slow and ended even slower with a really poor last 5 minutes or so. Would have no qualms knocking it down another peg. Brock looked in phenomenal shape and at least he didn't tap.

*Cena/Rock - **1/2*
I'm just throwing a random rating at this one so don't take too much from it. Missed large chunks of it but it didn't seem as good as last year's. May rewatch if I can bare it. Ending was as nauseating as possible.


Overall there was nothing flat out SHIT but certainly nothing I will remember for too long. Preferred last year's event considerably. If Punk/Taker ends up being MOTY then we're in for an awful 8 months. I think I'm done with wrestling for a while though (unless something really interesting happens - Ziggler winning the title doesn't count), probably until the Rumble.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i still havent watched wrestlemania yet. but i hear my main man PUNK stole the show again :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Also DOLPH

lets party!


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck! Went through the Live Raw thread and I seriously regret not watching. Sounds like the crowd greatly elevated a so-so/average show.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*Wrestlemania XXIX review*

*The Shield vs Randy Orton/Big Show/Sheamus 
*
Pleasant surprise seeing this one open and it didn't disappoint. The Shield has to be the best thing going in WWE right now, they always seem to deliver and genuinely seem like 3 hungry guys eager for success. The team is so well balance, you have Reigns the powerhouse, Ambrose the psychotic maniac and Rollins the highflyer. However this is probably the worst match they have had so far, due mainly to time constraints its still great. The storytelling is simple just like all of there matches, they may not be as good individually as their opponents but they are such a great team. As the saying goes a champion team will always beat a team of champions. Lets go Ambrose chant made me  Ambrose gets the win after Reigns hits a spear on Orton while the Big Show looks on choosing not to break up the count. I was hoping for a Orton Heel turn like most, but in the end heel Big Show refused to break up the count because both Orton and Sheamus seemed to not trust him and that cost them the match. Great little match here and the 2nd best of the night for me. 
*
*** 1/4*

*Ryback vs Mark Henry *

Strangely I was looking forward to this one as I sorta dug the buildup, but this was an absolute snooze fest. The match wasn't bad, it was just plain boring. The story was simple Ryback was for the first time the smaller and weaker man and was forced to fight from underneath. Every time he would try and gain momentum Henry would cut him off and lock in the Bearhug. Ryback being an amateur towards this situation he tried to hit power moves like he usually would, but just wasn't strong enough to lift Henry. Ryback eventually fights back and knocks Henry down and goes for shellshocked only for Henry to grab the ropes and land on Ryback and take the win. Henry goes to attack Ryback post match, however Ryback ends up hitting shellshocked on Henry, what a site. A fine little story to the match, I want to rate it higher but it was just so boring to me. 
*
* 1/4*

*WWE Tag Team Championship - Team Hell No(c) vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston*

I was annoyed that Bryan didn't get his own entrance as I thought he would get close to the pop of the night. But little things aside this was a fun little sprint tag match. I loved the callback to last years Wrestlemania and for a split second I thought Dolph wouldn't kick out. They covered Langston's greenness by only hitting a few power moves, which was the right move and let Dolph carry the load for them. Some good action in this and had another good near fall with the Zig Zag on Kane. Bryan wins with the flying headbutt as Ziggler jobs again and Bryan finally gets somewhat of a Wrestlemania moment. The crowd chanting Yes while he and Kane was in the ring was a nice moment and showed how over he is with the hardcore fans. A nice little match here, could of done with a few more minutes but you could say the same for pretty much all the undercard matches. 
*
** 1/2*

*Chris Jericho vs Fandango*

Call me crazy but this was along side Undertaker vs Cm Punk as the match I was looking forward to most. Fandango getting a big Wrestlemania Entrance was showing how much Vince has tried to invest into this gimmick. Say what you will about Curtis he has personality and has tried to immerse himself into the gimmick. I love the story in this match as its so simple, Jericho the 6 time world champion dominates the debutant for the majority of the match as he should. Fandango showed resiliency and capitalised on Jericho's over confidence. The ending may have been alittle botched with Curtis to close to the ropes for the Lionsault. But the commentators sort of covered up what happened as Jericho tweeted his knee and couldn't lock in the walls, Fandango took advantage and rolled up Jericho for the upset. Curtis looked quite nervous here I thought, but luckily he was in the ring with a veteran like Jericho who helped him through this fun little match. Not quite a show stealer, but it was good for what it was. 
*
** 1/2*

*World Heavyweight Championship - Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Jack Swagger*

Words can't describe how much I couldn't give a crap about this match or feud, I'm not a Swagger or Del Rio fan at all. However they are both quite solid in the ring, I was hoping they could produce something that could capture my interest. It turned out quite alright actually in my book, they seemed like there was some hate in there offence and some sequences I quite liked. The armband transition to the Ankle Lock back to the armbar was easily the best part of the match and I would of liked it to end there on a good note. Colter then gets the interest of Del Rio he then chases him until Swagger knocks him down and tosses him into the ring, only to get locked into the armbar and tap out. Actually quite a decent match in my eyes, nothing amazing but served it purpose, now hopefully they can move on. No Ziggler cash in made me sad  Happy now obviously  
*
** 3/4*

*Undertaker vs Cm Punk*

Anything other then a MOTYC would of been a bust for me, I was expecting a classic and we got just that and a match certainly that will be talked about in the conversation of MOTY in December. Everything about this match was amazing, this is actually my 4th watch of the match already and it may be my favourite streak match to date. First off the entrances were awesome, Punk coming out to living colour and Taker walking out with zombies seemingly trying to grab him :mark: certainly one of my favourite entrances ever. Punk was straight up amazing in this, his heel tactics and mannerisms really sold the story of Punk doing whatever he could to get inside Undertakers head and try to win at any cost. He even wore the old colours Taker wore back in the day, like JBL has stated before everything he does is to get inside his opponents head. I was kinda sceptical on Takers condition thinking he may not be at his best, but he was phenomenal as always. Even Heyman was perfect in this, cutting off Taker so Punk can take the advantage that is great managerial work and it gave a reason to why we didn't see Taker make his insane Wrestlemania dive over the ropes. It's such an enjoyable match but not once did I think Punk had Taker but that's only minor with the great work they did, I just would of liked to see Punk maybe hit the GTS after the urn shot, which could of created a nice near fall. So many great moments the elbow drop to Taker on the outside, Taker pushing off the mat whilst in the anaconda vice and staring at Punk. I loved this match the crowd actually cared about this, and surprisingly was split for both guys which shows how over Punk really is. At this time I would say its the 4th best streak much to date. People talk of the streak of 21-0, personally the 7 streak matches in a row of ***** 1/4* quality or higher is even greater. A classic in every sense of the word. 
*
**** 1/4

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H (No holds Barred ; Triple H career is on the line)*

I wasn't the biggest fan of their Summerslam match, so I came into this one with low expectations. It was solid I thought but like Summerslam lacked crowd involvement and just felt like it was missing something. First up Brock with a Beanie :mark: btw Brock looked ridiculously huge. Also I just can't take HHH seriously with the short hair, it just looks straight up weird. Some decent brawling in this, but it never felt as vicious as it should these guys supposively want to kill each other. Brock was straight up awesome as always destroying HHH with suplexs and cutting HHH off at every turn. HBK came to hit SCM but gets an F5 was pretty awesome. HHH fought back and then locked in the kimura which broke his arm twice last year, I thought that was it and was going to be pissed if Brock tapped out. But he fought out with dropping HHH on the steps, but he kept fighting to put the Kimura back on. Brock lifts him again but HHH counters into a DDT, then hits Brock with his trusty sledgehammer and then the Pedigree on the steps for the win. Was I angry at the result? Not really it was to be expected, but Brock losing 2/3 matches he has had so far is such bad booking. Overall I enjoyed it more then some, but its nowhere near a great match and I preferred Summerslam to this. 
*
*** 

WWE Championship - The Rock(c) vs John Cena*

Wow I didn't wanna watch this one again, the video package for this match actually made me care slightly about this match but really the result and the way the ending would happen was the main thing I was wondering. This was awful, no other word for it. The first 15 minutes is dedicated to looking around at the crowd and rest holds. The even dreaded Boring chant started to happen at one point and I certainly agreed with them. Then they transition into 7-8 minutes of finisher kick outs and eventually Cena wins. By this review everyone will assume everything was bad about this match, which is not the case. I loved the callbacks to last years match and would of loved it to end when Cena came off the ropes and learnt his lesson, but it continued on. The crowd was hot like it always is for Rocky's matches, but I would of much preferred Punk/Cena main event with Cena finally beating Punk and Brock facing Rock. One of the worst Main events in Wrestlemania history in my view, now lets move on to something new. 
*
* 1/2*

Overall a decent PPV with one MOTYC and a lot of solid matches. The only think that will be remembered will be Taker/Punk from this show and with good reason it's a classic in my view. Personally I preferred last years show, but I think this one may have been alittle more well rounded. Now we move onto the best PPV of the year Extreme Rules :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CENA VS HENRY!

CENA TROLLING FANS!

MIZ LOSES IC TITLE!

DOLPH WINS WORLD TITLE!

THE UNDERTAKER APPEARANCE!

THE SHIELD INTERRUPT THE MOTHERFUCKING UNDERTAKER!

KANE AND BRYAN FOR THE SAVE!

POTENTIAL 6 MAN TAG AT EXTREME RULES!

THAT ORTON BUMP OVER THE ANNOUNCE TABLE!

THOSE FANDANGO FANS!

THOSE FANS IN GENERAL ALL NIGHT!

NO ROCK, NO TRIPLE H!

RYBACK TURNS ON CENA!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark: @ Miz being a jobber champion and Wade earning a huge pop at his expense while winning the Championship back.

Face Miz needs to go away already. I liked it at first, now it's nearly unbearable levels. Tonight left me with a huge smile on my face.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Pretty much CAL summarised why raw was so great.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Watched the three big matches and meh. 2 stars to the main event; 3 to Hunter/Lesnar; and 3 and half to Punk/Undertaker. Punk/Undertaker was pretty good but it had the same formula that Undertaker's WM matches have usually.

I won't be bothered watching the entire show because I was underwhelmed by all the big matches.


Edit: It's amazing to think that Rock/Cena have headlined THREE consecutive 'Manias and all of them bombed quite literally. Miz/Cena and whatever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well The Rock got an injury at Mania again huh.

Ive still yet to see Mania lol, but just watching Raw atm, im already marking for the Taker appearance.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, I'm suuuuure Rock got injured at WM again. Last year:

Fans: Match sucked!
Rock: Uhhhh not to bad considering uhhh... I uhhh... GOT INJURED! YES! INJURED!

This year:

Fans: OH GOD THAT WAS WORSE THAN LAST YEAR!
Rock: I GOT INJURED WORSE THAN LAST YEAR TOO! YES! INJURED! GOTTA FLY HOME TO MAKE IT LOOK REA... I MEAN GET SEEN TO!

I'M ON TO YOU, ROCK :|


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Yeah, I'm suuuuure Rock got injured at WM again. Last year:
> 
> Fans: Match sucked!
> Rock: Uhhhh not to bad considering uhhh... I uhhh... GOT INJURED! YES! INJURED!
> ...


This is my exact feelings as well (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*FINAL WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH LIST:*
*Batista/Orton, Smackdown 11/22/2005 (N/R)
Show/Bryan, TLC 2011 (N/R)
Sheamus/ADR, Smackdown 8/10/2012 (N/R]

Bryan/Sheamus, WrestleMania 28 (DUD)
Henry/Bryan, Smackdown 11/25/2011 (DUD)
Jericho/Swagger, Smackdown 4/2/2012 (DUD)
Batista/JBL, The Great American Bash 2005 (DUD)
HHH/Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003 (DUD)
Khali/Batista, SummerSlam 2007 (DUD)
Taker/Edge, Smackdown 5/11/2007 (DUD)
Booker/Batista, Survivor Series 2006 (DUD)
Booker/Batista, SummerSlam 2006 (DUD)

Show/Rodriguez, Raw 12/29/2012 (1/4*) 
HHH/Steiner, No Way Out 2003 (1/4*)
Punk/Edge, Raw 6/6/2008 (1/4*)

Batista/Angle, Raw 6/20/2005 (1/2*)
Rey/Kane, Money In The Bank 2010 (1/2*)

Swagger/Show, Over The Limit 2010 (3/4*)
Jeff/Punk, Extreme Rules 2009 (3/4*)
HHH/Goldberg, Survivor Series 2003 (3/4*)
HHH/Nash, Judgment Day 2003 (3/4*)
Angle/Henry, Royal Rumble 2006 (3/4*)

Booker/Batista, Smackdown 10/20/2006 (*)
Kane/Taker, Hell In A Cell 2010 (*)
Kane/Edge, Survivor Series 2010 (*)
Batista/Taker, TLC 2009 (*)

Batista/Hassan, Raw 5/30/2005 (*1/4)
20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 7/20/2007 (*1/4)
HHH/Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003 (*1/4)

Edge/Rey, No Way Out 2008 (*1/2)

Show/ADR, Smackdown 12/22/2012 (**)
HHH/Jeff, Raw 9/16/2002 (**)
Batista/Booker, Smackdown 9/8/2006 (**)
Edge & Kelly/Ziggler & LayCool, Smackdown 2/4/2011 (**)
Henry/Show, Survivor Series 2011 (**)
Ziggler/Edge, Smackdown 2/18/2011 (**)
Batista/JBL, Smackdown 9/9/2005 (**)
Edge/Batista, One Night Stand 2007 (**)
Benoit/Rhyno, Raw 3/22/2004 (**)
ADR/Ziggler, Raw 4/8/2013 (**)

Punk/Taker, Breaking Point 2009 (**1/4)
Kane/Taker, Bragging Rights 2010 (**1/4)
Bryan/Henry, Smackdown 1/20/2012 (**1/4)
HHH/Kane, Raw 6/28/2003 (**1/4)

Edge/Batista, Judgment Day 2007 (**1/2)
Henry/Show, TLC 2011 (**1/2)
Henry/Orton, Smackdown 10/14/2011 (**1/2)
HHH/Kane, No Mercy 2002 (**1/2)
Punk/Jeff, The Bash 2009 (**1/2)
Batista/Edge, Raw 5/23/2005 (**1/2)
Swagger/Punk/Show/Rey, Fatal 4-Way 2010 (**1/2)
Taker/Punk, Smackdown 10/23/2009 (**1/2)
Batista/Orton, Raw 4/4/2005 (**1/2)
ADR/Show, Royal Rumble 2013 (**1/2)
Sheamus/ADR, Money In The Bank 2012 (**1/2)
ADR/Show, Elimination Chamber 2013 (**1/2)

Taker/Rey, Smackdown 12/23/2009 (**3/4)
Booker/Cena/Show, Cyber Sunday 2006 (**3/4)
Sheamus/ADR, SummerSlam 2012 (**3/4)
20-Man Battle Royal, Smackdown 1/13/2006 (**3/4)
Henry/Christian, Smackdown 9/23/2011 (**3/4)
Punk/JBL, Raw 6/6/2008 (**3/4)
Batista/Jericho, Raw 11/11/2008 (**3/4)
Batista/Christian, Smackdown 7/7/2005 (**3/4)
Bryan/Show, Smackdown 1/6/2012 (**3/4)
HHH/Booker, Raw 4/21/2003 (**3/4)
Batista/JBL, SummerSlam 2005 (**3/4)

Swagger/Edge/Jericho, Smackdown 4/16/2010 (***)
HBK/HHH, Armageddon 2002 (***)
Sheamus/ADR/Ziggler, Smackdown 6/29/2012 (***)
Punk/Batista, Raw 7/12/2008 (***)
Edge/Ziggler, Smackdown 2/11/2011 (***)
Orton/Sheamus, Smackdown 6/3/2011 (***)
Batista/Edge, Smackdown 11/30/2007 (***)
Championship Scramble, Unforgiven 2008 (***)
Edge/Cena, Raw 2/2/2009 (***)
HHH/Batista, WrestleMania 21 (***)
Bryan/Show/Henry, Royal Rumble 2012 (***)
ADR/Swagger, WrestleMania 29 (***)
Benoit/Eugene, Raw 7/12/2004 (***)
HHH/Edge, Raw 2/7/2005 (***)
Punk/Taker, Hell In A Cell 2009 (***)
Cena/JBL, Royal Rumble 2009 (***)
Angle/Rey/Orton, WrestleMania 22 (***)
Booker/Rey, Smackdown 7/25/2006 (***)
Booker/Taker, Smackdown 7/31/2006 (***)
HHH/Maven, Raw 11/15/2004 (***)
Goldberg/HHH/Kane, Armageddon 2003 (***)
HHH/Nash, Bad Blood 2003 (***)
Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam 2003 (***)
Show/Sheamus, TLC 2012 (***)

Jericho/Edge, WrestleMania 26 (***1/4)
Sheamus/ADR, Night Of Champions 2012 (***1/4)
Punk/Jeff, Night Of Champions 2009 (***1/4)
Punk/Batista, The Great American Bash 2008 (***1/4)
Henry/Orton, Hell In A Cell 2011 (***1/4)
Kane/Rey, SummerSlam 2010 (***1/4)
Jericho/Punk, Raw 9/15/2008 (***1/4)
Khali/Batista/Rey, Unforgiven 2007 (***1/4)
Orton/Benoit, Raw 8/16/2004 (***1/4)
HHH/Maven, Heat 7/13/2003 (***1/4)
Punk/JBL, SummerSlam 2008 (***1/4)
Jeff/Punk, Smackdown 8/7/2009 (***1/4)
Taker/Punk/Batista/Rey, Bragging Rights 2009 (***1/4)
Edge/Cena/Show, WrestleMania 25 (***1/4)
Khali/Batista, No Mercy 2007 (***1/4)
Swagger/Orton, Extreme Rules 2010 (***1/4)
Rey/Booker, The Great American Bash 2006 (***1/4)
Rey/Angle, Smackdown 4/28/2006 (***1/4)
HHH/Orton, Royal Rumble 2005 (***1/4)
Batista/Kennedy, Royal Rumble 2007 (***1/4)
Goldberg/Jericho, Raw 9/22/2003 (***1/4)
HBK/RVD, Raw 11/25/2002 (***1/4)
Batista/Christian, Raw 4/25/2005 (***1/4)
HHH/Flair, Raw 9/2/2002 (***1/4)
HHH/Nash, Insurrextion 2003 (***1/4)
HHH/Booker, WrestleMania 19 (***1/4)

Kane/Taker, Night Of Champions 2010 (***1/2)
HHH/Orton, Unforgiven 2004 (***1/2)
Henry/Show, Vengeance 2011 (***1/2)
HHH/RVD, Raw 6/30/2003 (***1/2)
Taker/Jericho/Show, Survivor Series 2009 (***1/2)
Rey/Swagger, Money In The Bank 2010 (***1/2)
Edge/Kane, Smackdown 1/7/2011 (***1/2)
Taker/Batista, Smackdown 4/25/2008 (***1/2)
Khali/Batista/Kane, The Great American Bash 2007 (***1/2)
Edge/Ziggler, Royal Rumble 2011 (***1/2)
Show/Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012 (***1/2)
Bryan/Show, Smackdown 1/13/2012 (***1/2)
Jericho/Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008 (***1/2)
Orton/Christian, Capitol Punishment 2011 (***1/2)~
Booker/Batista/Finlay/Lashley, No Mercy 2006 (***1/2)
Orton/Christian, Smackdown 9/2/2011 (***1/2)
Rey/JBL, Smackdown 5/26/2006 (***1/2)
Punk/Edge/Jeff, Raw 6/15/2009 (***1/2)
Rey/Sabu, One Night Stand 2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Bubba, Raw 9/30/2002 (***1/2)
Henry/Bryan, Smackdown 12/2/2011 (***1/2)
Taker/Rey, Royal Rumble 2010 (***1/2)
Taker/Edge, Judgment Day 2008 (***1/2)
Batista/Kennedy, Smackdown 2/9/2007 (***1/2)
Goldberg/Henry, Raw 10/6/2003 (***1/2)
Goldberg/HBK, Raw 10/20/2003 (***1/2)
Batista/HHH, Backlash 2005 (***1/2)
Jeff/Morrison, Smackdown 7/31/2007 (***1/2)
Edge/Batista, Vengeance 2007 (***1/2)
Edge/ADR, WrestleMania 27 (***1/2)
Rey/Henry, Smackdown 6/23/2006 (***1/2)
HHH/Flair, Raw 5/19/2003 (***1/2)
HHH/Edge/Benoit, Raw 11/29/2004 (***1/2)

Orton/Christian, Money In The Bank 2011 (***3/4)
Taker/Batista, Smackdown 5/11/2007 (***3/4)
Show/ADR, Smackdown 1/11/2013 (***3/4)
Edge/Rey, Royal Rumble 2008 (***3/4)
Edge/Batista, Night Of Champions 2008 (***3/4)
Sheamus/Ziggler, No Way Out 2012 (***3/4)
Kane/Edge/Rey/ADR, TLC 2010 (***3/4)
Christian/Orton, Smackdown 5/6/2011 (***3/4)
Benoit/Kane, Raw 6/28/2004 (***3/4)
Rey/JBL, Judgment Day 2006 (***3/4)
Edge/Jeff, Judgment Day 2009 (***3/4)
Taker/Edge, Backlash 2008 (***3/4)
Sheamus/Jericho/Orton/ADR, Over The Limit 2012 (***3/4)
Benoit/HHH, Vengeance 2004 (***3/4)
HHH/RVD, Unforgiven 2002 (***3/4)
Orton/Henry, Night Of Champions 2011 (***3/4)
Cena/Jericho, Armageddon 2008 (***3/4)
HHH/HBK, Taboo Tuesday 2004 (***3/4)

Batista/Taker/Edge, Armageddon 2007 (****)
Taker/Edge, One Night Stand 2008 (****)
Batista/Booker/Finlay, Smackdown 11/28/2006 (****)
Benoit/HBK, Raw 5/2/2004 (****)
Batista/Eddie, No Mercy 2005 (****)
Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2012 (****)
Benoit/HHH, Raw 7/20/2004 (****)
HHH/HBK, Royal Rumble 2004 (****)
Benoit/Kane, Bad Blood 2004 (****)
Punk/Jeff, Smackdown 8/21/2009 (****)
Jericho/Cena, Survivor Series 2008 (****)
Batista/Taker, Cyber Sunday 2007 (****)

Sheamus/Show, Hell In A Cell 2012 (****1/4)
Angle/Taker, Smackdown 3/3/2006 (****1/4)
Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2010 (****1/4)
Edge/Jeff, Extreme Rules 2009 (****1/4)
Batista/Taker, Survivor Series 2007 (****1/4)
Taker/Batista, Backlash 2007 (****1/4)
Rey/Orton, Smackdown 4/7/2006 (****1/4)
Christian/ADR, Extreme Rules 2011 (****1/4)

Elimination Chamber, No Way Out 2009 (****1/2)
Cena/Edge, Backlash 2009 (****1/2)
Orton/Christian, Over The Limit 2011 (****1/2)
Christian/Orton, SummerSlam 2011 (****1/2)
Jeff/Punk, SummerSlam 2009 (****1/2)
Benoit/Orton, SummerSlam 2004 (****1/2)
HHH/HBK, Raw 12/29/2003 (****1/2)
Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2011 (****1/2)
Batista/Taker, WrestleMania 23 (****1/2)
Edge/Taker, WrestleMania 24 (****1/2)

Sheamus/Bryan, Extreme Rules 2012 (****3/4)
Benoit/HBK/HHH, Backlash 2004 (****3/4)
Batista/HHH, Vengeance 2005 (****3/4)
Jericho/HBK, No Mercy 2008 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, New Year's Revolution 2005 (****3/4)
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002 (****3/4)
Angle/Taker, No Way Out 2006 (****3/4)

HHH/HBK/Benoit, WrestleMania 20 (*****)*​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

https://twitter.com/SteveTSN/status/321499367800438785/photo/1

Didn't see Raw, but assuming everyone that did saw this GOAT pose.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

iwatchwrestling said:


> https://twitter.com/SteveTSN/status/321499367800438785/photo/1
> 
> Didn't see Raw, but assuming everyone that did saw this GOAT pose.


Nope, pretty sure it was during commercial..


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

So happy for Ziggler that I'm watching my No Way Out 2012 DVD, Ziggler vs Sheamus, that was also in the same arena as last night, Izod Arena. I don't know what it is. but the NJ crowd loves themselves Ziggler. I was at NWO, and he got a huge pop that night. Not quite what he got last night, but still amazing. Anyway, love this match. :ziggler1 :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> CENA VS HENRY!
> 
> CENA TROLLING FANS!
> 
> ...


Yeah, it was a great RAW. The points in bold are the things I really enjoyed. I think the only thing was missing was a debut vignette for someone.. as Post Mania is always a exciting time with the new debuts. More than likely new talents will debut on Smackdown first I think, I mean, Ryback, Sandow and Cesaro debuted on Smackdown last year shortly after Mania.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do wonder if it'll be Taker/Kane/Bryan vs The Shield at Extreme Rules or not, be surprised to see Taker again, i was last night lol.

I know it is always said and a very old cliche, but i can see WM30 being Taker's last for sure, so maybe he may get a couple of other matches inbetween.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hated the first EC from Survivor Series 2002, felt like a clusterfuck. NYR 2005 get it right on every level, GOAT EC IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> I do wonder if it'll be Taker/Kane/Bryan vs The Shield at Extreme Rules or not, be surprised to see Taker again, i was last night lol.
> 
> I know it is always said and a very old cliche, but i can see WM30 being Taker's last for sure, so maybe he may get a couple of other matches inbetween.


Well apparently



Spoiler: Undertaker



He's gonna be at the UK tapings at the end of the month, so hopefully he'll be sticking around for definite for this one match at least



Also... ER is REALLY May 19th? That's quite a while away, especially considering we normally get 2 shows in April if WM takes place in the first week. Not complaining because it's nice to have all this time between... I just hope they USE the time and not wait two weeks before and then build to the show...

Also... if that 6 man does happen... will Kane be all mental and shit?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

So speaking of new call-ups, who does everyone want to see the most called up to the main roster? For me it's Bray Wyatt, I love his character, I think he's the best thing on NXT easily.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It would be great if Taker would be a regular wrestler till WM30.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

To think about it, Hunter's hits and misses at WrestleMania continues. The hits: Owen, 'Taker x3, Book Man, XX, and Cena. The misses: 2000 and before (bar Owen), Jericho, 24, Orton, Sheamus (not that the expectations were high), and Lesnar. Batista would be a hit because of the outcome.

And, Undertaker's had the best match at 'Mania since when now--23? My Lord, that's amazing.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Finally started to re-watch Mania to see how the show translated on TV. My opinion hasn't changed much in regards to the undercard, everything ranged from average to good with the exception of Henry/Ryback, which was terrible. The opener was the best match of the undercard with Swagger/Del Rio following behind that.

Taker/Punk still holds up as fucking great on re-watch. The match was absolutely bananas live (seeing Taker live at Mania is absolute must, there's nothing like it) and it was just as good here. I definitely loved Punk's double axe handle to Taker on the outside, felt extra special to see that and the elbow at Mania. The GTS into the ropes then the tombstone was a great spot and could end up being the best spot we see all year, and the finishing sequence of counters was really, really great. ****1/2

Now off to watch the double main event after I take a small break for Game of Thrones and Mad Men :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Cactus vs Hunter RR 00 - *****
No words really.. anybody not have it at full 5?


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

I wouldn't say the Sheamus and Lesnar matches would be considered misses, as such. I'd have them at the very least *** a piece and that's a good match in my book. Of course if you see them as lower than that then my point is redundant lol.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I dont know if HHH V Lesnar is good or not.

They did all the right things, and the brutality was there, but there was hardly any heat and, despite the stars involved and the stip, felt unimportant. 

I guess I give it like ***/***1/4, but yeah. Weird match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Cactus vs Hunter RR 00 - *****
> No words really.. anybody not have it at full 5?


I don't. Lots of people don't . ****3/4 for it though, which is usually the rating I see for it more than ***** tbh, though I can't argue with anyone throwing the full 5 at it. I did for a brief time.

As for HHH at WM... he's had plenty of "misses" aka matches under *** imo.

WM 12 Vs Warrior
WM 13 Vs Goldust
WM 14 Vs Owen (people like this?)
WM 15 Vs Kane
WM 18 Vs Jericho
WM 21 Vs Batista
WM 25 Vs Orton

Undertaker for example has had his fair share too, but fuck, look as who he was wrestling compared to HHH. Bundy, Snuka, Gonzales...


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> So speaking of new call-ups, who does everyone want to see the most called up to the main roster? For me it's Bray Wyatt, I love his character, I think he's the best thing on NXT easily.


Easily Bray Wyatt.

Bring his family along with him and just have him out there cutting promos.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*The Lady Killer*'s review of Wrestlemania was amazing. Watching the show now. Glad to see some people like him and Cody enjoyed HHH/Brock. I have a feeling I'll like it too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLK's parents need to sign up and post in here.

Re-watching WM now for a review. Still enjoying the show so far, though didn't like Henry/Ryback as much this time. Not that I loved it live, but it felt even slower this time around. Daniel Bryan might love Bear Hugs, but they should just fuck off, along with the dreaded nerve grip. Both are "go to" rest holds for big men these days, and they both absolutely KILL matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It blows my mind how anybody can give THE SHIELD match anything less than three stars. Best Wrestlemania opener since BRET DA GAWD and Owen tore the fucking house down 19 years ago, seriously.

I liked BROCK-GAME a ton, but not as much as THE PERFECT STORM.

Why the fuck are they going with Cena-Ryback as opposed to Cena-Henry? That shit makes absolutely no sense, Ryback hasn't won a match on PPV since MITB when he beat two jobbers. Oh well, if Taker's wrestling then there's no doubt in my mind that he'll be going on last anyways.

When The SHIELD's music hit yesterday I went fucking INSANE with my mark outs.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> TLK's parents need to sign up and post in here.






Saint Dick said:


> *The Lady Killer*'s review of Wrestlemania was amazing. Watching the show now. Glad to see some people like him and Cody enjoyed HHH/Brock. I have a feeling I'll like it too.


<3

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I like Brock/Hunter. Need to watch Mania again now that I've had a chance to reflect on the matches.

Extreme Rules is shaping up to be LEGIT so far. Potential matches:

Cena/Ryback or Cena/Ryback/Henry (not sure how Rock fits in here since he's still technically #1 contender)

SHIELD vs Bros of Destruction/Danielson (this would be so fucking awesome)

DOLPH vs Del Rio

Jericho vs Fandango's Theme Song

Those alone would be great. Not sure what gimmicks would be attached to each match, but I'm not sure it'd matter. All out street fight for the 6-man, plz.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Lesnar and Triple H showed some signs of barbaric intent, but most of the time it was just too slow. It was pretty much BIG IMPACT MOVE followed by a minute of walking about and then SUPLEX ONTO THE FLOOR followed by another two minutes of grunting and stalling and so on...and so on...

The pace was just totally off and I think they were trying to incorporate more of a dramatic aspect into the match rather than a pulsating, heated brawl. The latter would've made more sense, but in the end the majority of the match just came off as plodding and lazy. It certainly picked up the moment when HBK kicked Heyman in the face, and I will admit I was definitely on the edge of my seat when Trips had Brock in the kimura.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The three Kimura Lock's was insanely over the top and fucking retarded on Lesnar's part.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I like how the WWE has booked BROCK in defeat in all honesty. He's never actually been put away by a normal move, it's always a move on the steel steps :lol.

I REALLY need to watch that HHH-BROCK match again because I'll probably adore it on the second go around, although when I first saw HHH-BROCK @ Summerslam I threw four and a half at it and the rating has stayed the same even after 4 or 5 rewatches. I just don't understand WWE's logic for having that match, IT WAS STUPID.

I hope SHIELD gets the rub from Taker, that would be fucking amazing. Even if it's BROCK coming down and ripping Taker's arm off to set up the Wrestlemania XXX blockbuster. THAT would be fucking amazing no doubt, especially since The Rock is hurt and hopefully never steps foot in a ring to wrestle ever again :lol.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I say to keep things spicy in the lead up to this - well, inevitable - six man tag match at Extreme Rules, I'd book two members of The Shield to win the tag team titles on Raw, and then have a stipulation at Extreme Rules that if Bros Of Destruction and Bryan win, then Team Hell No get their belts back.

THEN at Extreme Rules, The Shield win a nail-biting contest when Kane miscues and hits Bryan, leading to the pin. Bryan gets pissy with Kane and Taker, leading to a match with Kane at, say, Payback? Bryan goes off the deep end and goes mental on Kane with a chair or something, putting him out of action. Taker makes the save, leading up to Undertaker vs. Daniel Bryan at Summerslam.

YES!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> TLK's parents need to sign up and post in here.
> 
> Re-watching WM now for a review. Still enjoying the show so far, though didn't like Henry/Ryback as much this time. Not that I loved it live, but it felt even slower this time around. Daniel Bryan might love Bear Hugs, but they should just fuck off, along with the dreaded nerve grip. Both are "go to" rest holds for big men these days, and they both absolutely KILL matches.


Review that shit bro.

SHIELD match was good. Very good opener. Ryback/Henry now.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

If they're going to do Rock/Cena III which is very possible. It should happen at Summerslam.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On the subject of Brock/HHH match... I honestly felt that the WM match was how the SS match haters see the SS match. We've talked about the SS match a bunch on here since it happened, and I honestly feel that all of the things the people hated about that match are exactly what the WM is lol. Not sure if this is making sense, but it does in my head dammit. SS was awesome imo, with a unique fight atmosphere and brutality, while WM was slow, dull, plodding, and a terrible uncaring crowd with zero atmosphere to it. And yet I've seen a lot of people pretty much say the reverse . Opinions and all I know, but it does kinda confuse me because I honestly can't see the SS in the way the people who don't like it see it, and genuinely don't see the WM match the way the people who really liked it did. Who knows, maybe I will when I get to it, but I ain't gonna be losing sleep if I don't .

As for now, fuck Lesnar/HHH, I'm up to Undertaker/Punk :mark:. Actually think I have one of the lower ratings for it in here (****), despite being one of the absolute biggest Undertaker marks . Expecting my rating to change at least a little though, as reviewing matches usually allows me to see things I wouldn't normally see while watching live, and make connections between things that help me like the match more. Or I can see the shit easier too .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They should just stay the FUCK away from Rock/Cena III forever.

It would make my year as a wrestling fan to hear that Rock won't WRESTLE at Wrestlemania XXX. He can come back and be a guest referee or an enforcer or any of that bullshit, I just want somebody else other than him to main event for a change so I can, you know ... LOOK FORWARD TO THE WRESTLEMANIA MAIN EVENT. I mean, every single time Rock gets in the ring he gets fucking hurt somehow and manages to tear something allegedly.... Why risk it?

I guess I'm just being optimistic .

EDIT: Cal's 'how others view the Summerslam match is how I view the Mania match' pretty much sums up my thoughts on the match as of right now. I wasn't really feeling it at the time of the match and I haven't gotten around to a re-watch yet. I wanna watch the match again badly, but I'm not optimistic on what I would think about it. FUCK THAT KIMURA SPOT THOUGH. UGH.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar/HHH Summerslam was slow and plodding as well, but not anywhere near the amount the Mania match was, not to mention the Mania match had a lot more heat and felt a lot more tame, even with the NHB stip.

However, maybe I should go back and watch the SS match. The garbage they pulled out at Mania may make me appreciate their first match more. Who knows?

And please Krang, don't tease with Taker vs. Bryan. Don't wanna get my hopes up.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Triple H/Lesnar SS 12 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WM 29.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I still haven't seen the Brock/HHH Summerslam match, and I don't think I ever will.

The Rawk, it practically writes itself. It adds a logical reason for the demise of Team Hell No; keeps The Undertaker in the picture while keeping him fresh for the 'bigger' PPVs; crowns new tag team champions who people actually give a shit about, and will provide a MASSIVE rub for Daniel Bryan.

It won't happen though.

:siddle


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ryback/Henry was bad. Could've been so much better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody else think that Punk's taking the RAW MITB this year?

If Rock never wrestled @ XXX, this could be our double main event ;

WWE Championship - CM Punk(c) vs John Cena
The Streak - The Undertaker vs BROCK LESNAR

Yeah, that NEEDS to happen.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Anybody else think that Punk's taking the RAW MITB this year?
> 
> If Rock never wrestled @ XXX, this could be our double main event ;
> 
> ...


I'd rather see Punk win the Rumble and then face Cena. Those two matches at Mania would be sweet though.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The only acceptable Undertaker Wrestlemania match at this stage is Undertaker/John Cena, if only for the somewhat unpredictability of it. Cena hitting an AA out of nowhere twenty minutes into the match will have you shook just because he's John Cena.

Taker/Brock would be fantastic, but everyone knows Brock won't end the streak and you won't have the thought in the back of your mind either that Brock MIGHT just end the streak. You would have that with John Cena, though.

Plus, it would give John Cena the opportunity to have a good match at Wrestlemania after working with shite opponents the last three years.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That fucking crowd last night. Amazing. :lmao

Fans beeping their horns to the tune of Fandango's theme after the show, people singing it on the train. Holy shit. :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed, Punk winning the Rumble absolutely needs to happen next year.

I mean, Taker has pretty much came out and said off record numerous times that BROCK is the main guy he wants to take on The Streak. Have Triple H be guest referee or some bullshit for that match after BROCK wrecks him @ some PPV this year and we're set.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> I still haven't seen the Brock/HHH Summerslam match, and I don't think I ever will.
> 
> The Rawk, it practically writes itself. It adds a logical reason for the demise of Team Hell No; keeps The Undertaker in the picture while keeping him fresh for the 'bigger' PPVs; crowns new tag team champions who people actually give a shit about, and will provide a MASSIVE rub for Daniel Bryan.
> 
> ...



Yeah, it's why I don't want to get my hopes up. I think Taker's just in for ER, where he'll be taken out by The Shield or Lesnar and won't be seen again until next year's Mania.

But damn, Taker/Bryan... the match would be amazing. If at Mania... I think it would have potential to be Taker's best match (yes, even above the HBK matches). The best worker in the company vs. the best worker at Wrestlemania. It would be off the charts.

TBH I'd be happy if they just got 10-15 minutes on Raw or SD to absolutely kill it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Taker/Brock or Taker/Cena would both suit me fine. If I had to choose one I'd probably go with Cena due to the unpredictability of that match as GOON said. I doubt the streak will ever end but with Cena going after it there's definitely a possibility. 

If that match did end up happening then you could have Brock/Punk on the same show which would be pretty sweet and could have an awesome build up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pierre McDunk said:


> That fucking crowd last night. Amazing. :lmao
> 
> Fans beeping their horns to the tune of Fandango's theme after the show, people singing it on the train. Holy shit. :lmao


Reminds me of when Bryan's "Yes!" chants were first getting over. I was at a house show and people were going nuts for him, then doing the YES! chants out of the arena, then while we were waiting for the tram, people on the other side were running up and down doing it, then every time the tram said what the next stop was, everyone was chanting it too. Confused the shit out of the people who got on the tram before the arena .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, everyone getting me all excited at the thought of Taker/Bryan.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Reminds me of when Bryan's "Yes!" chants were first getting over. I was at a house show and people were going nuts for him, then doing the YES! chants out of the arena, then while we were waiting for the tram, people on the other side were running up and down doing it, then every time the tram said what the next stop was, everyone was chanting it too. Confused the shit out of the people who got on the tram before the arena .


My buddy went a concert last summer wearing his Yes! shirt and literally about 50 or 60 people started a big YES chant before the show. 

Stuff like that is awesome.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WWE has to put last nights Raw on DVD/Blu Ray. It might sell more than the WM DVD/Blu Ray. Do it, WWE.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Taker/Bryan would be fantastic no doubt, but it's not really an Undertaker "Streak" match per say. Since 25, Undertaker has only been wrestling main event players. Basically, only the TOP stars are the ones going after the streak now. No disrespect to Bryan, but he would be a huge step-down in terms of star power when it comes to facing Undertaker for the streak. Because of this, the only people who should challenge Undertaker for his streak, both in terms of star power and match quality, would be either John Cena or Brock Lesnar.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WWE hitting that mainstream audience :vince5


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Re: The Fandango theme. 

Just goes to show how underrated an artist Jim Johnston is. He's been consistently writing themes for nearly THIRTY years, and as shown by last night, he is still capable of producing the goods.

I think hopefully we're coming to an end of WWE using dull, uninspiring, wishy-washy, limp wristed rock songs for themes.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

GOON The Legend said:


> Taker/Bryan would be fantastic no doubt, but it's not really an Undertaker "Streak" match per say. Since 25, Undertaker has only been wrestling main event players. Basically, only the TOP stars are the ones going after the streak now. No disrespect to Bryan, but he would be a huge step-down in terms of star power when it comes to facing Undertaker for the streak. Because of this, the only people who should challenge Undertaker for his streak, both in terms of star power and match quality, would be either John Cena or Brock Lesnar.


Yeah, Taker/Bryan at a B PPV would suffice. Save Taker/Cena or Taker/Brock for Mania. Those are really the only two Mania-caliber opponents Taker has left, unless Rock feels like jobbing again.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't think Taker/Bryan is happening at Mania, nor should it over the likes of Taker/Cena, Taker/Lesnar, Taker/Rock... or Taker vs. any other big name I'm not thinking of. However, if it did, no doubt it would be an incredibly worked match. I mean, if Taker/Punk could do what they did with Punk injured, Taker/Bryan with Bryan at 100% would be phenomenal. That's all I was getting at.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The only way I can see Taker/Bryan happening is Bryan snaps and turns on Taker and Kane against The Shield? That would obviously break up Hell No and give Bryan a good mean streak. That's just a far fetched idea off the top of my head though. If Taker wanted to work with Bryan so much though I think he'd stick around to do it at a B PPV for sure.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

For me, Taker/Cena is a lock in at WM30. Will main event, will be Takers last match. Have it for the title too. Takers streak vs. John Cena for the WWE title.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ So Taker retires with the belt? I highly doubt anyone, including Cena, would break the streak.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Bryan would the only thing close to a Taker/Benoit match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

If Taker/Cena does happen it's big enough without the belt, so they might as well use that in another match to keep the interest high.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd throw my TV if Cena ended the streak, but the mere thought that he is a person that could end the streak would make the match as unpredictable as MITB 2011.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Just re-watched Taker/Punk and it's still ****1/2 for me,great match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/Movement. At this point, Cena is the only member of the roster that could legit make me think the streak could end. The finishing stretch of a Taker/Cena Mania match would be unreal. The drama, the nearfalls, everything. Not to mention they've never really had a high profile match, have they? Have they even wrestled before? Maybe back when Cena first started? I can't recall.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena and Undertaker have had a PPV match (Vengeance 03), and a few TV matches that were really good (SD 03 Vengeance rematch, SD 04), and then some short TV matches that were nothing matches for whatever reasons. (Raw 06... Raw 07?08?). And then some big tags with and against each other (No Way Out 07 against each other. Awesome match).


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena goes for a heel turn, before he'll break Taker's STreak


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I missed the entirety of 03 so I'm not surprised I didn't know about those. As for the 06-08 ones, they don't ring a bell at all. 

My point stands - THEY NEED TO WRESTLE EACH OTHER NEXT YEAR


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finished re-watching WM 29. Easy as fuck to sit through. Didn't skip a single match. Didn't like a couple, but for the most part I still thought it was a really fun and entertaining show, but suffers from only having 2 matches really worth seeing.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched many Brock matches before and after WM. TOp 10:

10.vs Edge- Rebellion 02
9.vs RVD- Vengeance02
8.vs The Rock- Summerslam 02
7.vs Big Show vs Kurt Angle- Vengeance 03
6.vs Kurt Angle- Summerslam 03
5.vs John Cena- Extreme Rules 12
4.vs Eddie Guerrero- NWO 04
3.vs Kurt Angle- WM 19
2.vs Undertaker- No Mercy 02
1.vs Kurt Angle- Iron Man Match


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't know which one I would want more, honestly. Taker/Bryan or Taker/Lesnar. Probably Taker/Lesnar considering how Brock is compared to 10-11 years ago when they had their bouts so it would be 5x more epic. I've said 100 times that I'd pay my hard earn money to watch those two literally almost kill each other. It cannot be a normal match between those two, though. I don't want HIAC. Maybe NHB or Last Man Standing.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

What did I tell you guys.... its FAN..... DAN....... GOAT

This guy is gonna be BIG


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> ^ So Taker retires with the belt? I highly doubt anyone, including Cena, would break the streak.


I don't know how it'd work.

When I say retire, maybe more.. last match at Wrestlemania and he loses the belt at Summerslam or something, I just don't know if Taker HAS that last run in him, plus if he retires it deserves to be at Wrestlemania and what better way than 30. I just want the title to main event Mania, especially at a landmark like Wrestlemania 30.

If Taker goes up against Cena, it will main event.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching the entirety of Raw.

- Cena's troll character is fucking awesome

- Barrett wins back the IC title.... what is this, LOL Country?

- Ziggler cashes in and my interest in the WHC scene for now is still as much as the divas division

- Actually, I would love the reaction if they trolled the smarks tonight by having a rematch where Del Rio wins the title again on SD. :lol

- Taker + Hell No = Awesome!

- Awesome crowd all night long except during Sheamus/Orton. What the fuck was that about? I would've forgiven them if they started a "Chris Benoit" chant but with what took place... fuck them!

- Fan-Dan-LOL gonna Fan-Dan-LOL

- Bret 4/10 sign FTW!

- Cena vs Henry can be awesome if given a decent amount of time on PPV. And Ryback was absolutely ruling last night.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Awesome crowd all night long except during Sheamus/Orton. What the fuck was that about? I would've forgiven them if they started a "Chris Benoit" chant but with what took place... fuck them!


I'll say what I said in one of the other threads, they only started those chants because they just scrapped the Twitter poll - Which is the WWE basically saying to the crowd 'you don't fucking matter'.

If Vince is going to treat them like shit, then the crowd are going to respond in kind. Good on them.

I thought it was fucking brilliant either way. People having FUN at a wrestling show, who'd have thought it?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk has had a pretty good year so far.

Vs. Jericho on RAW
Vs. Cena on RAW
vs. Kane on RAW
Vs. Taker at WM

And he didn't even wrestle in the buildup to Mania other than the Kane match. I hope he gets healthy soon.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

They did that during that match because it was boring and meaningless.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> I'll say what I said in one of the other threads, they only started those chants because they just scrapped the Twitter poll - Which is the WWE basically saying to the crowd 'you don't fucking matter'.
> 
> If Vince is going to treat them like shit, then the crowd are going to respond in kind. Good on them.
> 
> I thought it was fucking brilliant either way. People having FUN *during a 2013 Randy Orton match*, who'd have thought it?


Fixed it for you 8*D


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

LOL WHATS MY LINE


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

THE MIGHTY KRANG said:


> I'll say what I said in one of the other threads, they only started those chants because they just scrapped the Twitter poll - Which is the WWE basically saying to the crowd 'you don't fucking matter'.
> 
> If Vince is going to treat them like shit, then the crowd are going to respond in kind. Good on them.
> 
> I thought it was fucking brilliant either way. People having FUN at a wrestling show, who'd have thought it?


Fair point. That poll made no sense if they were gonna just ignore it. That said, I think the people who really "suffer" are the performers who are following the script and not Vince.

And there's a difference between having fun and trying to take over the show. It was stupid when the SummerSlam 04 crowd did it to Undertaker and JBL and it was stupid last night. Only reason nobody complains about last night is because 99% of the forum hates Orton and Sheamus.

EDIT: Orton forgetting his line was hilarious, though. :lol


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

:lol I must've missed that forgotten line botch. Oh well. Dammit Randy.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Orton, model professional. 

The guy really doesn't give a shit anymore :lmao


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Fair point. That poll made no sense if they were gonna just ignore it. That said, I think the people who really "suffer" are the performers who are following the script and not Vince.
> 
> And there's a difference between having fun and trying to take over the show. It was stupid when the SummerSlam 04 crowd did it to Undertaker and JBL and it was stupid last night. Only reason nobody complains about last night is because 99% of the forum hates Orton and Sheamus.


Well, I just think Orton and Sheamus were collateral damage. It's very unfortunate for them, but they should've realised the crowd was shitting on them, and they could've done something about it instead of sinking deeper into the mud. Sheamus raising Chioda's hand when they cheered him, or Orton busting out an 'OOOOOOOH YEEEEEEAH!' for example.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Simplest of lines and he forgot it, dumb fuck.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

:lol at Sheamus' face when Orton asks him what's his line.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Whole video is worth a watch. The very end may be worth the 7:00+ length.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

This is fucking hilarious :lmao

"nice moustache"

"I've got a fuckin Undertaker tattoo, and you know what? Fuck it, FAN-DAN-GO! FAN-DAN-GO! FAN-DAN-GO!"


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They sang Henry's theme :lmao


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Ziggler being champion has me more excited for the product than I have been in months. Him taking it off Mexican JBL just makes it even better.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I may actually watch SD for once.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DOLPH


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

"THAT'S WHAT I DOOOO!"

"THAT'S WHAT HE DOOOOEEESSSS!"

:lol :lol :lol

ANNNYWAYS I'm going to throw out some stars for my Cena project :

John Cena vs The Miz vs John Morrison (Steel Cage ; Extreme Rules 2011) : *****
John Cena vs The Miz (I Quit ; Over the Limit 2011) : *DUD*
John Cena vs R-Truth (Capitol Punishment 2011) : ** 1/4*

MORRISON MAIN EVENTING = BOSS. So many fucking escape attempts in that match that I actually lost count, only for Cena to win by pinfall . The Miz was was the Breaking Point 2009 match except it had no character development, less subtlety, and was essentially TERRIBLE. Somehow worse than Punk vs Rock and Taker vs Kane from inside the cell IMO, and perhaps the worst John Cena match of all time. The Truth match was BAD but after what I just witnessed in Cena-Miz, it was fucking GOD. It's like watching Punk-Rock II after watching Punk-Rock.... It still sucks but it's not so bad that you want to hurt a small animal just to take out your aggression :lol.

All in all, a pretty terrible string of matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MORRISON. 

Return soon plz.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i got this pack yesterday

Matches List: 

The Hardyz vs Dudley Boyz vs Edge & Christian - TLC Tag Team - Tag Team Championship - WrestleMania 16.avi 

Edge vs The Undertaker (One Night Stand 2008 Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match for the vacant World Heavyweight Championship).avi 

John Cena vs Edge (Unforgiven 2006 Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match, WWE Championship).avi 

Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk - TLC Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2009.avi 

John Cena vs Dolph Ziggler - Ladder Match For Ziggler's MITB Briefcase - TLC 2012.avi 

Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane vs Alberto Del Rio - Fatal 4-Way - TLC Match - World Heavyweight Championship - TLC 2010.avi 

Edge and Christian vs The Dudley Boyz vs The Hardy Boyz (WrestleMania X-Seven 2001 Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match, WWF Tag Team Championship).avi 

DX vs Chris Jericho & Big Show - TLC Match - Tag Team Championship - TLC 2009.avi 

The Shield vs Team Hell No & Ryback - 6 Man Tag Team TLC Match - TLC 2012.avi 

CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio vs The Miz - TLC Match - WWE Championship - TLC 2011.avi 

The Hardyz vs Dudley Boyz vs Edge & Christian - TLC Tag Team - Tag Team Championship - Summerslam 2000.avi 

CM Punk vs Ryback - TLC Match - WWE Championship - Raw 7.1.13.avi 

TLC III Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho vs The Hardys vs The Dudleys vs Edge & Christian - Smackdown 2001.avi 

Raw 10.7.2002 - Kane vs Jeff & RVD vs Christian & Jericho vs Bubba & Spike TLC match_xvid.avi 

Ric Flair vs Edge - TLC Match - WWE Championship - Raw 16.1.06.avi 

The Miz vs Jerry Lawler - TLC Match - WWE Championship - Raw 29.11.2010.avi


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*That train video is amazing bar "we are awesome" and "let's go fucking mental". The woman who's clearly not their for rasslin looks so uncomfortable sitting through it :lol*


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I was just waiting for a pack of Millwall fans to jump on.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> They sang Henry's theme :lmao


more people need to. ive been doing it for months now. MARK


MARK/Cena plz. If he actually became WWE champion I might explode. My friends I watched mania with were baffled when I tried to sell Henry as a top worker. Fuck them :henry1


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I hope MARK doesn't get dropped from the title picture. If Rock remains #1 contender, I can see Cena/Rock III @ ER and Ryback/MARK for #1 contendership.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MIZARK has one of the most awesome themes. It's just so badass. Even kick ass when Three 6 Mafia performed it live on Smackdown.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

henry, ryback, fandango and more will all get their chance vs cena

its like 2007 all over again baby!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shepard said:


> more people need to. ive been doing it for months now. MARK
> :henry1


I said the exact same thing last night. <3



WOOLPUSSY said:


> henry, ryback, fandango and more will all get their chance vs cena
> 
> its like 2007 all over again baby!


:mark:

:lmao @ Orton's line botch. Holy crap that was terrible.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I really think the feud with Punk lit a fire under Cena's ass. Like Punk brought out the best in him and reminded him what he's supposed to be doing

Post 2008 return, Cena's been missing that spark


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I missed the Orton line fuck-up. Gonna need to rewatch now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd be down with Cena having a long run and getting a chance against various guys. The peak of his career was in that role and WWE have been a "babyface touring with the belt" company since Sammartino. I prefer the NWA way of "heel touring with the belt", but it's tough to have your #1 guy be a heel, I think. I just really, really, really want he and Henry to get a singles program. Or turn Ziggler now and match HIM up with Henry. With Henry being enormous and the strongest man in the world Ziggler's selling won't look like overkill. I'mma stop now before I ramble about Henry again, but yeah, I never thought I'd say this; I like the idea of 'around the world' Cena again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

While Orton embarrassing himself is wonderful, it pales in comparison to this:






BEARS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd be down with Cena having a long run and getting a chance against various guys. The peak of his career was in that role and WWE have been a "babyface touring with the belt" company since Sammartino. I prefer the NWA way of "heel touring with the belt", but it's tough to have your #1 guy be a heel, I think. I just really, really, really want he and Henry to get a singles program. Or turn Ziggler now and match HIM up with Henry. With Henry being enormous and the strongest man in the world Ziggler's selling won't look like overkill. I'mma stop now before I ramble about Henry again, but yeah, I never thought I'd say this; I like the idea of 'around the world' Cena again.


You can ramble about Henry as much as you want. It's entertaining every single time.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> While Orton embarrassing himself is wonderful, it pales in comparison to this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol, good God, that is amazing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao BEARS

Josh can't keep it together when Bryan freaks out over the BEAR HUG~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_*Cesaro does the giant swing*_

Imagine doing that to a bear.

:lmao

Remember when some first said Bryan Danielson doesn't have a personality/charisma? Yeah, me either. :hayley3


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

"IMAGINE DOING THIS TO A BEAR, IMAGINE DOING THIS TO A BEAAAAAAR"


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Bryan continues to make his case for GOAT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Okay, that bear video was hilarious. :lmao

The only reason anyone could possibly say Bryan has no personality is because he wasn't allowed to show a lot of it until he won MITB and the World Title. And probably because Michael Cole kept burying him on commentary for over a year.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> While Orton embarrassing himself is wonderful, it pales in comparison to this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



:lmao Another reason to love him.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

God damn why have I never seen that video before? That was hilarious! Gotta love all those bear puns. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It proves Saturday Morning Slam is occasionally worth a watch here and there. Lucky me I didn't give up on it.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Top 5 streak matches (my opinion)

1)HBK vs. Taker WM 25 - *****
2)CM Punk vs. Taker WM 29 - ****1/2 (Really don't get why people are rating this match so low, beautifully paced, great story telling, amazing facial expressions, barely any rest holds and very well wrestled. Sure it wasn't a finisher fest but who cares)
3)HHH vs. Taker WM 28 - ****1/2
4)HBK vs. Taker WM 26 - ****1/2
5)Edge vs. Taker WM 24 - ****1/4

thoughts guys?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll certainly have Undertaker vs Shawn II over the WM 28 Hell in a Cell. Out of personal preference, the match vs Orton would earn a top five slot for me too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

For me it's:

1. WM26 (interchangeable w/WM25)
2. WM25 (interchangeable w/WM26)
3. WM28
4. WM27
5. WM23 or WM29


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Top 5 Taker streak matches:

1. vs HBK - WM25
2. vs HBK - WM26
3. vs HHH - WM27
4. vs Edge - WM24
5. vs Punk - WM29

On first viewing I'll put Punk above the HHH match at WM28. Surprising since HHH is my all time GOAT but I'm not quite as fond as that match as others. Obviously it's still awesome though, Takers resume is just so damn consistent.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1. HBK - WM25
2. HHH - WM28
3. HBK - WM26
4. Batista - WM23
5. Orton - WM21

2 and 3 are interchangeable.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

1. HBK (25)
2. HBK (26)
3. Punk (29)
4. Edge (24)
5. Orton (21)

My list. Personally, I didn't get the hype with either of the Triple H matches. I did like the Hell in a Cell match though, I just put them five above it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Batista's match would probably have Edge's beat for me.

All I know is, while I wasn't crazy about the 27 match, majority of Undertaker's work @ WM rules. I'm going back through it all and saying this. Only match I can say I thought was rather poor was vs Boss Man. Giant Gonzales there were circumstances. Guy couldn't walk. Taker did the best he could.


----------



## JDP3-AZ (Apr 5, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> This is a good place to ask this. More info would be appreciated, most importantly what PPV's they are and such. You could post a list on what he has.



I will post a list of the collection tonight when I get home.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Okay, other than the mundane and pointless feeling out process, Cena/Rock was actually pretty great. I know some people hate the whole finisher, kick out, finisher, kick out, etc schtick, but I think it really works in the case of this match because let's face it, Cena and Rock aren't going to put on some superb wrestling clinic or anything of the sort. These are the two biggest names in the biggest match of the year on the biggest show of the year so I'm okay with them just killing each other with finishers. Yeah, I know some of you will shout "overkill" from the highest points you can reach, but there's just something entertaining (and borderline suspenseful) about these guys just hitting finisher after finisher. Honestly, I wish they would have cut out the feeling out process bullshit, which made no sense and just had them go 15-17 mins of hitting big moves and finishers. That would have been the perfect way to go, imo.

No idea what to rate this honestly, but it's better than last year's match and the two Rock/Punk matches. Oh, and the Cena callback spot where Cena teased going for the People's Elbow again, but caught himself on the ropes was absolute gold. Little stuff like that is genuinely awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Top 5 for me

1. WM 26
2. WM 25
3. WM 24
4. WM 29
5. WM 23

21 is very close though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Rock wanting to hit finishers only wasn't the problem. The fact that it was bullocks from near start to finish was. Horrible pacing, called out spots galore, dragged countless times, the works. It was a shite match outside of the smart callbacks. If only the action was able to match it in a minimum capacity, I wouldn't have minded it. It didn't. Match was terrible.

Thank christ we're moving on.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

-Mystery- said:


> Okay, other than the mundane and pointless feeling out process, Cena/Rock was actually pretty great. I know some people hate the whole finisher, kick out, finisher, kick out, etc schtick, but I think it really works in the case of this match because let's face it, Cena and Rock aren't going to put on some superb wrestling clinic or anything of the sort. These are the two biggest names in the biggest match of the year on the biggest show of the year so I'm okay with them just killing each other with finishers. Yeah, I know some of you will shout "overkill" from the highest points you can reach, but there's just something entertaining (and borderline suspenseful) about these guys just hitting finisher after finisher. Honestly, I wish they would have cut out the feeling out process bullshit, which made no sense and just had them go 15-17 mins of hitting big moves and finishers. That would have been the perfect way to go, imo.
> 
> No idea what to rate this honestly, but it's better than last year's match and the two Rock/Punk matches. Oh, and the Cena callback spot where Cena teased going for the People's Elbow again, but caught himself on the ropes was absolute gold. Little stuff like that is genuinely awesome.


Completely agree. I actually enjoyed most of the show. The only matches I really wasn't feeling as much as I would have liked to on live watch and a re-watch are Henry/Ryback and HHH/Lesnar. Brock was still entertaining in his match to say the least. WM29 was not the best show the WWE could have put together but I felt like I watched an enjoyable show when it was all said and done.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

For a moment there I thought you were WOOLCOCK w/"bullocks" and "shite." Had to look at your username to snap myself out of it. 

edit I agree w/Clique. Highly enjoyable show overall. Only match that didn't do much for me was Henry/Ryback, and that was probably the match I had the lowest expectations for so it all worked out.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena vs Rock wanting to hit finishers only wasn't the problem. The fact that it was bullocks from near start to finish was. Horrible pacing, called out spots galore, dragged countless times, the works. It was a shite match outside of the smart callbacks. If only the action was able to match it in a minimum capacity, I wouldn't have minded it. It didn't. Match was terrible.
> 
> Thank christ we're moving on.


Yeah, I didn't quite understand why the match was paced the way it was. A feeling out process and the whole 9 yards felt really pointless given the fact that we saw this match last year. There shouldn't be a need for all that, or at the very least there shouldn't be a need for it to that extent. 

Like I said, 15-17 mins of big moves and finishers would have been awesome.



Clique said:


> Completely agree. I actually enjoyed most of the show. The only matches I really wasn't feeling as much as I would have liked to on live watch and a re-watch are Henry/Ryback and HHH/Lesnar. Brock was still entertaining in his match to say the least. WM29 was the best show the WWE could have put together but I felt like I watched an enjoyable show when it was all said and done.


I think Cal said it best, the show wasn't horrible and it's actually really easy to watch, but Taker/Punk is really the only thing I would probably ever go back to watch again.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't really want to talk about the Rock/Cena match much more, but I did really hate it. I will watch it again at some point as matches often change on a second viewing, but I really do consider it one of the worst Mania main events of all time. I can definitely see why some people would like it though. I wasn't invested in the feud or the match at all, so obviously I wasn't hyped for the nearfalls and such. People that were heavily invested in the match would have probably found it really exciting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> For a moment there I thought you were WOOLCOCK w/"bullocks" and "shite." Had to look at your username to snap myself out of it.


Maybe if I would have called someone a muck savage it would have made things easier. 



-Mystery- said:


> Yeah, I didn't quite understand why the match was paced the way it was. A feeling out process and the whole 9 yards felt really pointless given the fact that we saw this match last year. There shouldn't be a need for all that, or at the very least there shouldn't be a need for it to that extent.
> 
> Like I said, 15-17 mins of big moves and finishers would have been awesome.


It started off promising. You know going a bit faster and all that jazz. Then out of nowhere they decided to clamp on the headlocks and bring the pace down to a near halt. Was frustrating. For me at least.

I was hoping for the 15 minutes full blown scenario myself.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> edit I agree w/Clique. Highly enjoyable show overall. Only match that didn't do much for me was Henry/Ryback, and that was probably the match I had the lowest expectations for so it all worked out.


And HHH/Brock wasn't a "bad match" but the heat they should have had was almost non-existent (reminded me of Orton/HHH) and the pacing felt plodding instead of the deliberate, brutal war they set out. Brock was a beast as usual, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, smart portion or not, I'm one who gladly enjoyed Brock vs Game on Sunday. I was so into it that the pacing felt fine in my opinion & the hush over the crowd came through as a sign Brock was shocking people more than they were "dead" for the action.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Mystery... that sig. :mark:

Edit: The hush over the crowd was Brock scaring people? Guess if it floats your boat, use it.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Angel joining the Alliance is seriously the most retard booking in WWE history and it pretty much shit on the whole Austin/Angle feud that happen for like 4 months


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c Kurt was "the mole". Then the next night it meant nothing. Yay...

even as a kid I never bought that. Austin randomly goes back to being a face after all of that brilliant heel work? what, why?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Well, smart portion or not, I'm one who gladly enjoyed Brock vs Game on Sunday. I was so into it that the pacing felt fine in my opinion & the hush over the crowd came through as a sign Brock was shocking people more than they were "dead" for the action.


This. My opinion dead on. Also believe that crowd was a little exhausted after losing their minds for Taker/Punk. Card order was questionable to say the least.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Taker's streak match against Punk is the best streak match since Wrestlemania 25.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Card placement is a gamble. Some matches will always take a hit at WM. It's why being the opener the workers tend to luck out as the fans are about as jacked as possible. WM 29 did the WM 19 booking where all of the main events went on one after another. It can take a toll, but I felt the fans were fine during the night. It wasn't WM 25 where by the time Trips vs Orton happened, you felt as if they were wrestling in front of 15 people instead of what, 70,000+ that were in attendance?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Well, smart portion or not, I'm one who gladly enjoyed Brock vs Game on Sunday. I was so into it that the pacing felt fine in my opinion & the hush over the crowd came through as a sign Brock was shocking people more than they were "dead" for the action.


There is certainly plenty of good stuff in that match, especially from Brock.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

But the night after Survivor Series this happenend...

http://www.dailymotion.com/us/relevance/search/ric+flair+returns+to+wwf/1#video=x2z73l


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Angel joining the Alliance is seriously the most retard booking in WWE history and it pretty much shit on the whole Austin/Angle feud that happen for like 4 months





HayleySabin said:


> b/c Kurt was "the mole". Then the next night it meant nothing. Yay...
> 
> even as a kid I never bought that. Austin randomly goes back to being a face after all of that brilliant heel work? what, why?


What Cody said, he was the 'mole' which was actually really smart, as Vince then twisted by teasing that Austin would turn. It all went well up until the night after Survivor Series when suddenly Angle was booked as a heel when kayfabe-wise, he literally just saved the company and should have been heralded. Then Austin was booked as a face and everyone called BS. Even I did and I was just a kid. Austin beating Angle clean a month later at Vengeance after the whole 'Austin can't beat Kurt Angle' story a few months before sucked too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was their way of making it all fall back into square one or something. Jericho ended up getting the rub, so I was left pleased at the end of it all. Can't say I enjoyed the unusual & somewhat lazy approach taken to simply have Austin be a face again once Vince decided the Alliance program was over so he'd return to being a heel.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Whole heartedly agree with punk/taker being the best streak match since mania 25, fantastic match. Will go down in my top 10 favorite mania matches of all time

On a side note I'm probably going to be grabbing a lot of wrestling dvd's for my birthday (good PPV's/documentaries/takers streak matches) etc.
Any advice on good dvd's to buy? Big fan of taker,flair, hart, michaels, punk, edge... The usual. Also hoping to grab some top caliber ppv's on dvd. Appreciate it if anyone could guide me! Thanks. Will have about a 100-150 quid to spend


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well if you're looking for sets on the workers you just mentioned then:

Edge - Decade Of Decadence, The Story Of Edge
Punk - Best In The World
HBK - Heartbreak & Triumph
Taker - Tombstone:History Of The Undertaker

There's a Bret one that I haven't' seen but has been mentioned in this thread a lot recently. Oh and Flair, you want the big ultimate one. Can't remember it's exact title.

Anything specific in terms of PPVs?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk's DVD set is brilliant. I always pimp out Loose Cannon: Brian Pillman Story b/c it's a great doc with one hell of a match listing coupled with it.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

If you've read Heartbreak and Triumph the book, you aren't going to want to watch Heartbreak and Triumph the doc. The match collection is... okay iirc, but I preferred the second Michaels set for that.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll look into those sets/documentaries. Nothing specific in terms of PPV's, just ppv's with good quality matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't go wrong with SummerSlam 2002. Always a favorite among many.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Survivor Series 2002, too. WM19, as well. My favorite WM in terms of match quality. 2002-2003 was such a good year, or couple of years, I suppose. :damn


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Certainly. Everyone must own WrestleMania 19. Best Mania out there.

k, it's personal preference, but it is high in nearly everyone's book.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RE-WATCHING BROCK-GAME NOW :mark: :mark: :mark:.

Dear GOD please don't let me hate this match... PLEEEAAASEEEEEEEE.

BEST/WORST MAIN EVENT EVERY YEAR SINCE 2002 (Thought it would be fun off the top of my head):

2002 BEST : Taker/Brock NM
2002 WORST : Taker/HHH KOTR 

2003 BEST : Big Show/BROCK JD
2003 WORST : Jesus, there were alot of bad ones here .... I'll go with Hogan/Rock from NWO though.

2004 BEST : HHH/HBK/Benoit WM XX
2004 WORST : Taker/Dudleyz GAB

2005 BEST : HHH/Batista VEN
2005 WORST : Batista/JBL GAB

2006 BEST : Taker/Angle NWO
2006 WORST : DX/Spirit Squad VEN

2007 BEST : HBK/Cena WM
2007 WORST : Taker/Henry UNF

2008 BEST : Taker/Edge WM
2008 WORST : Taker/Edge ONS

2009 BEST : Cena/HHH/HBK SS
2009 WORST : HHH/Orton BASH

2010 BEST : HBK/Taker WM 
2010 WORST : Taker/Kane HIAC

2011 BEST : Cena/Punk MITB
2011 WORST : Cena/Miz OTL

2012 BEST : Cena/BROCK ER
2012 WORST : Cena/ACE OTL

Just a quick little fun idea for YOU ALL to try .


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Certainly. Everyone must own WrestleMania 19. Best Mania out there.
> 
> k, it's personal preference, but it is high in nearly everyone's book.


Yes, Summerslam 02, Survivor Series 02, and WM 19 all must owns for everyones' collection. (Y)


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I can't breathe.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

2002 BEST : Taker/Brock NM
2002 WORST : Taker/HHH KOTR

2003 BEST : Big Show/BROCK JD
2003 WORST : 

2004 BEST : Eddie/JBL JD
2004 WORST : Taker/Dudleyz GAB

2005 BEST : HHH/Batista VEN
2005 WORST : Batista/JBL GAB

2006 BEST : Taker/Angle NWO
2006 WORST : DX/Spirit Squad VEN

2007 BEST : Taker/Batista CS
2007 WORST : Cena/Khali JD

2008 BEST : Taker/Edge SS
2008 WORST : Orton/HHH JD

2009 BEST : Punk/Hardy SS
2009 WORST : HHH/Orton BASH

2010 BEST : HBK/Taker WM
2010 WORST : Barrett/Orton BR

2011 BEST : Cena/Punk MITB
2011 WORST : Cena/Miz WM27

2012 BEST : Cena/BROCK ER
2012 WORST : Cena/ACE OTL

Orton/HHH takes Worst ME of the Year two years in a row. Whadoyaknow?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll give it a shot.

2002: Best - No Mercy (BROCK vs Taker) or Vengeance (triple threat), Worst - KOTR (Taker vs Triple H)
2003: Best - Judgment Day (Bork vs Show), Worst - Survivor Series (Goldberg vs HHH)
2004: Best - Wrestlemania XX (Benoit vs HHH vs HBK), Worst - Great American Bash (Taker vs Dudleyz)
2005: Best - Vengeance (Batista vs HHH), Worst - TGAB (JBL vs Batista)
2006: Best - No Way Out (Taker vs Angle), Worst - Vengeance (DX vs Spirit Squad)
2007: Best - Backlash (Four Way), Worst - One Night Stand (Cena vs Khali)
2008: Best - No Way Out (Raw Chamber), Worst - No idea yet
2009: Best - Bragging Rights (Cena vs Orton), Worst - Wrestlemania XXV (Orton vs HHH)
2010: Best - Wrestlemania (HBK vs Taker), Worst - Need to refresh memories
2011: Best - MITB (Cena vs Punk), Worst - Over the Limit (Cena vs MOZ)
2012: Best - Extreme Rules (BROCK vs Cena), Worst - Over the Limit (Cena vs Johnny Ace)
2013: Best - Royal Rumble (ROCK vs Punk), Worst - Elimination Chamber (ROCK vs Punk)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

2013 best (out of the three) would be Punk/Rock EC, with Rock/Cena WM being the worst.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

givin' eet a shot:

02 B- Lesnar/Taker No Mercy
02 W- Trip/Hogan? Trip/Taker? Trip/Michaels? Man Trip stunk that year.

03 B- Lesnar/Show Judgment Day
03 W- Trip/Goldberg? Trip/Nash? I barely remember. Hey, Trip stunk in 03 as well.

04 B- Eddie/JBL Judgment Day
04 W- I haven't seen Taker/Dudleys in years but I cannot imagine it being a less fun experience than the HHH/Michaels Hell in Cell.

05 B- HHH/Bastita Vengeance, but I've never seen Cena/JBL.
05 W- Hogan/Michaels

06 B- Taker/Angle
06 W- DX/Cheerleaders at Vengeance or the ECW Elimination Chamber. I don't want to watch either again.

07 B- Cena/Michaels
07 W- I guess Taker/Henry or Cena/Khali @ ONS, but I haven't watched those in years.

08 B- I looked over every main event and I don't really like a single one of them. w/e.
08 W- Taker/Edge ONS

09 B- couldn't tell you. Missed a lot.
09 W- Realistically I couldn't tell you, but I'm guessing it's HHH/Orton from Mania.

10 B/W- I was only really paying attention to SmackDown and Superstars. I'll watch whatever I haven't one day.

11 B- Cena/Punk MITB
11 W- Cena/Miz WM or The rematch at whatever show it was. I will never watch either again.

12 B- Cena/Lesnar
12 W- Never watched Cena/Ace. So I vote Punk/Ryback.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Certainly. Everyone must own WrestleMania 19. Best Mania out there.
> 
> k, it's personal preference, but it is high in nearly everyone's book.


Such a stacked card. Can't go wrong with that.

For me personally my go to is WM 10. Hart/Hart is one of my all time favorites. Ramon/HBK is ok too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIX) : **** 1/4*

Yeah, this was brutal as fuck. It never once topped their epic Summerslam encounter, but they did a good enough job of going out there and putting on a really, really great match. As much as I love me some GAME, BROCK owns this match and he owns it fucking hard from his suplexes being flawless to his intensity being off the fucking charts with his GODZILLA like yell, BROCK just GETS IT when it comes to putting his character into a match. The brutality and excellent character work by BROCK make this awesome... But FUCK that finish. Seriously, Triple H is on offense for the last FIVE minutes of the match and all booking awfulness aside ; that wasn't the right way to end it as it reminded me of HHH-Orton in the sense that the ending was so anticlimactic. Triple H gets his revenge, okay ... Where do we go from here exactly?

OH BTW, THE SHIELD WRESTLES ON MAIN EVENT THIS WEEK APPARENTLY.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Triple H gets his revenge, okay ... Where do we go from here exactly?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love Triple H and I'm glad he hasn't retired, but FUCK THAT FINISH, SERIOUSLY.

Why can't he just do that to The Rock or somebody? WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE BROCK?!?!?!!

It seems as if they brought BROCK in just to have him job to Vince's favorite guys. FUCK.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> It seems as if they brought BROCK in just to have him job to Vince's favorite guys. FUCK.


 He is jobbing to the ROCK next year :rock4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Or TAKER, who knows/cares at this point, I'm just interested in seeing him keep his aura that's slowly disappearing due to all of these losses.

I don't even think they'll do Rock/BROCK TBH, seeing as how Taker has said off the record that BROCK is his guy (not Cena, BROCK). As much as I'd love to see Cena/Taker, Taker never really went head to head against a FACE OF THE COMPANY at Wrestlemania. Plus, if they did Rock/BROCK it would probably main event over Cena/Taker anyways, which IS NOT HAPPENING (since nothing will main event over Cena/Taker) EVER.

Just have Taker wrestle @ Extreme Rules and have BROCK rip his arm off post match. BROCK goes away only to come back and face Cena for the title at Survivor Series or some shit, winning the belt off of Cena in the process. BROCK defends it at TLC and when the Rumble comes around, he drops it to (insert random big name here) in dirty fashion due to Taker interfering. There's one of your Wrestlemania XXX main events right there.


----------



## JDP3-AZ (Apr 5, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDP3-AZ 
Hello everybody. I do not know if this is the right place to post this but here it goes. My cousin is hard up for some money and asked me to sell his collection of wrestling DVDs. I was going to post them on ebay but figured I would start here on the forums as this is the target audience. There are over 100 DVDs from the way back to the Ric Flair / Hogan days to current, some rare. I personally do not know much about wrestling, just trying to do my cousin a favor. Would anybody be interested in these or am I wasting everybody's time? I can post pictures and more info tonight after work if anybody wants me too. Thanks Guys!
This is a good place to ask this. More info would be appreciated, most importantly what PPV's they are and such. You could post a list on what he has.

So heres the list of DVDs:

Summer Slam "the complete anthology 20 disc set 1988-2007"
the best of raw 15th anniversary 3 disc set 1993-2008
jeff hardy my life my rules 3 disc set
mcmahon 2 disc collectors edition
nature boy ric flair the definitive collection 3 disc set
rey mysterio the life of a masked man 3 disc set
the rise and fall of wcw 3 disc set
hart and soul the hart family anthology 3 disc set
the rock 3 disc set
batista i walk alone
rey mysterio the biggest little man
hell in a cell
wrestle mania 21 goes hollywood
born to controversy the roddy piper story
allied powers the worlds greatest tag teams
classic superstars of wrestling
the american dream the dusty rhodes story
the new and improved dx
my life john cena
jake the snake roberts pick your poison
the ultimate rick flair collection
viva la raza the legacy of eddie guererro
the legacy of stone cold steve austin
elimination chamber world heavyweight championship november 17, 2002
road warriors
summer slam rock versus brock
wrestle mania 8 march 17, 2002
greatest rivalries shawn versus bret
steve austin cactus jack the early years
breaking the code behind the wall chris jericho
greatest moments tna
hulk hogan the ultimate anthology
beyond the mat
hard knox the chris benoyt story
bret hart hit man
shawn michaels boyhood dream
starcade the essential collection 1983-2000
the best of smackdown 10th anniversary 1999-2009
the shawn michaels story
mick foley greatest hits and misses
the best of jeff hardy
ray mysterio 619
the very best of wcw monday nitro
john cena word life
survivor series the anthology 1992-1996
the rise and fall of ecw
*ROYAL RUMBLE THE COMPLETE ANTHOLOGY 1998-2007
WRESTLE MANIA THE COMPLETE ANTHOLOGY 1985-2005*
edge a decade of decadance
brock lesner here comes the pain
a fall from grace survivor series
from the vault shawn michaels
the rock the epic journey of dwayne johnson
the story of edge
nwo the revolution
wrestlings highest flyers
triple h the king of kings
invasion wcw/ecw versus wwf
my perfect
the monday night war raw is war versus wcw monday nitro
ecw path of destruction
tombstone the history of undertaker
chick fights real girls real hot action
the rise and fall of ecw
the rock just bring it
rob van dam one of a kind
rick flair and the 4 horseman
summer slam
wrestlemania the raging climax
wrestle mania xix march 30, 2003
sting return of an icon
royal rumble january 25, 2004
royal rumble january 30, 2005
triple h the game
royal rumble january 19, 2003
cheating death stealing life the eddie guerarro story
back in black nwo
destination x march 13, 2005
stone cold steve austin what
andre the gaint - BRAND NEW NEVER OPENED
blood bath wrestlings most incredible steel cage matches
hulk still rules
brian pillman loose cannon
trish stratus

Damn that was a lot of typing! :faint:

I have no idea what these are worth as a complete collection, but like I said I am trying to sell these for my cousin.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Damn. You'll want to take a good look at some of the older ones as it's possible they could be out of production.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

if brock faces taker, brock better lose

pretty sure taker is still pissed about losing three times to him


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK wouldn't give a fuck if Vince jobbed him out to Santino at this point FFS, he's still making a bajillion dollars.

Cena-Rock III will be Rock's retirement match, bet on that one. Wrestlemania XXX or XXXI.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena-Rock III will be Rock's retirement match, bet on that one. Wrestlemania XXX or XXXI.


 I think a rematch will happen later this year. Apprantly, the plan was ROCK and Cena to wrestle again at Extreme Rules in a rubber match. The feud should end IMO and it makes sense to end the way it did. ROCK wins the first match in front of his home crowd and then Cena gets his revenge in the rematch.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Anyone watching the Hall of Fame right now? They showed Foley dropping the elbow on Jericho and Punk counting the 1-2-3. 

Trump is next. Hopefully WWE didn't edit DEM BOOS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If The Rock was legitimately injured @ Mania, I honestly believe that he won't work a singles match (he MIGHT work a tag but that's up in the air at this point) until XXX at the very earliest. He honestly has like two matches left anyways ; vs Brock and vs Cena if either of them even happen. It's not like we're ever going to see Rock vs Trips/Taker/Sheamus/Bryan/etc, those are the only two guys left.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Anyone watching the Hall of Fame right now? They showed Foley dropping the elbow on Jericho and Punk counting the 1-2-3.
> 
> Trump is next. Hopefully WWE didn't edit DEM BOOS.


Yep, that was pretty awesome. Gotta love Jericho.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I knew that Foley, Jericho and Punk spot was coming and I still marked out. Great moment to see.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

I thought the Foley induction wasn't going to be aired? That was a pleasent surprise.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Y2J jobbing to Mick Foley during his induction speech in front of his son. :lmao GOAT.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

They should be ashamed of themselves for recapping Backlund but giving Trump a full segment.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trying to figure out just what Vince has had done. Is it shorter hair or a little facial work? Something about him just looks strange.

EDIT: DEM BOOS LEFT INTACT


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Trying to figure out just what Vince has had done. Is it shorter hair or a little facial work? Something about him just looks strange.


He looks like how he looked 6-7 years ago, he just hid the grey hairs and made them a bit dark.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ah, good call. 

This crowd just didn't shut up while Trump talked. Tad disrespectful. And Trump challenged Vince to a fight? Said he'd kick his ass. Crowd still gives no fucks.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Where are you guys watching the HOF ceremony? Is it on TV?


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Alim said:


> Where are you guys watching the HOF ceremony? Is it on TV?


Yeah, it's on USA. Same channel as Raw.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

In the States it's on USA.

Edit: Beat to it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OMG at the videos posted today. BEARS! :lol And seriously, that Taylor Swift vid is hilarious.


KingOfKings said:


> John Cena vs The Miz vs John Morrison (Steel Cage ; Extreme Rules 2011) : *****


MORRISON

Love that match. *** 3/4 - **** in my books, whole bunch of fun with some great spots.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Holy cow. Vince raising Bruno's arm at the end of the HOF ceremony. Can't say we ever thought we'd see that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's really great indeed.

Looking forward to seeing alot of young talent getting some main event time with Cena later this year, I just wished that they could have picked a better first opponent than Ryback which will more than likely be a 2 PPV / 10 week feud that could get exhausting after a while. If we got Morrison/Cena @ OTL or CP 2011 it could have been really something, as the Cena/Nitro matches from 06/07 were actually really good for TV matches and usually fell in the two and a half to three star range.

Watching the Cena-Umaga PPV encounters now, want to see if I love them as much as I used to and if the LMS match can crack my top five Cena matches ever (it's going to have to be pretty fucking amazing to accomplish that, but I'm optimistic).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


>


The X-Division Championship too 

:lmao


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Hate all you want

I find Brock vs Cena incredible and the ending absolutely perfect

Ignoring all the aftermath shit and the buildup, as a standalone match, the ending was genuinely perfect IMO


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HATE?

I have Brock vs Cena as my 5th GOAT WWF/WWE match EVER behind ;

Taker-HBK (HIAC)
Bret-Owen (Mania)
Taker-HBK (Mania 26)
Bret-Austin (Mania)

It's one of the most dynamic pieces of storytelling that I've ever seen in my entire life. The greatest monster heel performance ever coupled with one of the greatest BABYFACE performances ever by Cena? Fucking fantastic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Hate all you want
> 
> I find Brock vs Cena incredible and the ending absolutely perfect
> 
> Ignoring all the aftermath shit and the buildup, as a standalone match, the ending was genuinely perfect IMO


no shit. I've been saying this since the moment it happened.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

My concern is with the ending

ITS PERFECT

fuck the haters

cena with one stiff smash to the jaw with the steel chain followed by an FU onto the steps out of freaking desperation and after getting his ass kicked for 30 minutes is the only way it could have ended


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock collides with a steel chain wrapped around the massive fist of John Cena. That is more than enough to knock anyone for a loop, including Brock Lesnar. Ending was fine. If not fitting or perfect, like you stated.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

well im referencing this forum's reaction

moment cena won half the people appeared to turn on the match they were jerking off to just 10 seconds earlier


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's because Cena was getting destroyed and DERE WAS BLOOD DURRRRRR :lol.

Once Cena won, it automatically becomes a DUD, same with if Cena had to win @ MITB 2011.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You should know better than to take what the masses of window lickers on this place say. Remember when AJ Lee was super over? Now it is hate, hate, hate. It always works out that way.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> well im referencing this forum's reaction
> 
> moment cena won half the people appeared to turn on the match they were jerking off to just 10 seconds earlier


You're not wrong. Most folks were shocked and typed the first thing that came into their minds. I was probably the same way. I still question the choice to have Brock lose, or to even face Cena in the first place. But it's done now.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

well here it begs the question

should the person who won the match affect your rating of it?


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

The ending of the match, including the winner is part of the overall story of the match. You can't seperate them. It's like, a wrestling match is a story and the ending is a vital part of any story. Well "should" is a weird question, it certainly does. Liking a match up until the ending and hating the victor/manner the victor achieved the victory is going to affect people. 

Was the story of the match affected by Cena beating Brock? Well it's certainly different than if Brock wins. People not liking the ending is fairly understandable. I mean I actually think given the way the match was booked Cena winning wasn't a bad thing. I still didn't _like it_, but having Brock basically squash your top guy and then pin him would have been weird. Cena's win looked like it was kind of lucky/showed great resilance and Brock looked like an absolute beast and was protected in the match. So it worked fine. Not gonna pretend I like Brock losing his first match back though - but the match was great. Much better than the two HHH matches. ugh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It never should. Just enjoy the match for what it was. This goes for any match out there in the world of Wrestling.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

ah, but here is the argument

just as long as it makes sense in the context of the match, i believe either man winning is fine


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> just as long as it makes sense in the context of the match, i believe either man winning is fine


Well yeah, but lots of things can make sense. It doesn't mean there all equally as satisying or as valid a direction to go in or as entertaining? Personal preference not coming into this is going to be unusual, I don't really think people can "objectively" rate anything.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If the ending of the match makes sense with the story they were trying to tell out there, it's completely cool with whoever wins.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There is a difference between personal result & quality of the match. I can name matches where I didn't get the result I wanted, but it hasn't come down to effect how I felt about the match in the slightest. Case & point for sake of discussion: Cactus Jack vs Triple H - Royal Rumble 2000.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I WANTED BROCK to win @ Extreme Rules, but when it was over, I stopped and thought to myself ; WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST SEE?

I seriously think that's why some people choose to not say Rock-Punk (RR) wasn't a horrible piece of shit even though it's the most obviously bad match I've seen in a while ; they love the ending moment with Rock winning the belt and standing triumphantly over Punk.

I don't know about you guys, but if The Rock suddenly became GOOD and started having GOOD main event matches and cut GOOD promos, there's no possible way that I could still hate the guy. I enjoy GOOD WORK, if I don't feel that the work is good, I obviously won't enjoy it... Same with everybody else and their personal preferences.


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

That match would still have been awful even if they'd ended it with Punk winning


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> You should know better than to take what the masses of window lickers on this place say. Remember when AJ Lee was super over? Now it is hate, hate, hate. It always works out that way.



For the record I still love AJ and have Brock/Cena at **3/4. Wasn't even one of my top 20 matches of the year. I have only seen it once but I will watch it again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena-Umaga @ New Year's Revolution 2007 holds up as a damn near classic encounter. FOUR BEAUTIFUL SNOWFLAKES FOR THAT ONE.

Since we're on the topic of JOHN BOY (as I've been for the last MONTH), anybody wanna throw me out their personal most overrated/underrated CENA matches ever? It'd be interesting to see how my thoughts of all these matches stack up to everyone else's thoughts.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i find his matches with Kurt really overrated. then again its kurt angle fans that overrated it so whatever

The umaga match was classic but that bitch Cal ruined it for me

WHY DID THEY TAKE THE TURNBUCKLE OFF. IT MAKES NO SENSE


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Overrated:
vs. Michaels WM XXIII (I understand the love for this match, but I share the same opinions as C2D on this)
vs. Edge Unforgiven 2006
vs. Orton Ironman Match
vs. Batista WM 26 (although this isn't exactly highly rated)

Underrated:
vs. Swagger RAW (forgot the year, but they had a really good match together)
vs. Benoit Smackdown 4/17/03
vs. Mysterio Smackdown 11/06/03
vs. Punk RAW 1/17/11
vs. Del Rio Vengeance 2011


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Angle No Mercy '03 was great. Rest are better off being forgotten.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Overrated:
> vs. Michaels WM XXIII (I understand the love for this match, but I share the same opinions as C2D on this) *TOO AWESOME*
> vs. Edge Unforgiven 2006 *Agreed*
> vs. Orton Ironman Match *Agreed (although there's only like one logically thinking person who believes this is GREAT*
> ...


& The Kurt matches have all been lackluster so far besides NM 2003 of course. Still have UNF/SS 05 to watch, always thought that the UNF match was decent but we'll have to see now, won't we?

Care to chime in with your own personal picks Cody?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena vs Angle No Mercy '03 was great. Rest are better off being forgotten.


wrong. best match of no mercy 2003 was the father daughter match :cena2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> & The Kurt matches have all been lackluster so far besides NM 2003 of course. Still have UNF/SS 05 to watch, always thought that the UNF match was decent but we'll have to see now, won't we?
> 
> Care to chime in with your own personal picks Cody?


With the list? Sure.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Overrated:
> vs. Michaels WM XXIII ~ *Not at all. A stellar match at all times.*
> vs. Edge Unforgiven 2006 ~ *100% agreed. This match is actually quite bad*.
> vs. Orton Ironman Match ~ *don't agree about it being overrated simply b/c I swear I think I'm the only guy alive who likes it.*
> ...





WOOLPUSSY said:


> wrong. best match of no mercy 2003 was the father daughter match :cena2


Never claimed one was the best match of the night, but you aren't far off on your opinion :hmm:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think I have 7 out of the 8 matches @ NM 2003 at ****+*, fucking fantastic PPV from top to bottom.

I even love the Biker Chain match which everybody else pretty much HATES :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That match is a relative bore. A rare miss for Taker & Brock. So much of it is forgettable. That's the problem.

Piledriver on steps. Dive to outside. Vince screws Taker. Finish.

rest is...there.

Great show though. Love watching it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's amazing how BAD RAW brand PPVs were compared to their SMACKDOWN counterparts in 2003 :lol.

*RAW*

Bad Blood 2003
Unforgiven 2003
Armageddon 2003

*Smackdown*

Vengeance 2003
No Mercy 2003

Seems legit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ah, the honor of getting a response from KoK. An over/underrated for Triple H would be a great one to do as well, considering how polarizing the man is.

Overrated:
vs. Angle/Rock Summerslam 2000
vs. Austin No Way Out 2001 (Great match, but I don't get the five-star ratings that this sometimes receives)
vs. Michaels Royal Rumble 2004
w/ HBK vs. McMahons/Big Show Unforgiven 2006
w/ Batista/Shane vs. Legacy Backlash 2009
vs. Cena RAW 10/19/09 
Any of his matches with Sheamus (If their roles reversed, they could have had a classic though)

Underrated:
vs. X-Pac Backlash 1999 (Hidden gem in that god-forsaken year of atrocity and shame)
vs. Rock/X-Pac RAW 7/27/98
vs. Flair RAW 12/31/07
vs. Hardy Cyber Sunday 2008
vs. Batista Backlash 2005
vs. Orton RAW 1/3/05
vs. RVD Unforgiven 2002


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Underrated: 
Cena vs. Taker - SD and Vengeance 2003
Cena vs. John Morrison - ECW
Cena vs. Edge vs. Trips - Backlash 2006
Cena vs. HBK vs. Trips - Survivor Series 2009
Cena vs. Jericho - Summerslam 2005, Survivor Series 2008 and Armageddon 2008


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> It's amazing how BAD RAW brand PPVs were compared to their SMACKDOWN counterparts in 2003 :lol.
> 
> *RAW*
> 
> ...


they switched places a year later though

its all about benoit :rock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ah, the honor of getting a response from KoK. An over/underrated for Triple H would be a great one to do as well, considering how polarizing the man is.
> 
> Overrated:
> vs. Angle/Rock Summerslam 2000 *AGREED 180 PERCENT*
> ...


SEE. We're not disagreeing.

Now all we need is C2D to become a Punk Mark/Rock Hater and the forum shall be saved.



GOATAntics said:


> Underrated:
> Cena vs. Taker - SD and Vengeance 2003 *Vengeance match gets alot of love... SD match hasn't been seen by many.*
> Cena vs. John Morrison - ECW *Good little match, but again... It's not underrated because I've never seen anybody rate it besides myself.*
> Cena vs. Edge vs. Trips - Backlash 2006 *Alot of people love this, so I'd call it .... Rightfully rated.*
> ...


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I wonder why he hates Punk so much though

Is he elijah burk?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Alim said:


> Are KOK and I the only ones around here that think Rock/Austin WM 19 is better than Rock/Austin WM 17?


Nope. I also have it higher on my list. ****3/4 on 19 ****1/2 on 17 both worlds better than their shitty wm15 bout


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> I wonder why he hates Punk so much though
> 
> Is he elijah burk?


:lol :lol :lol

I actually don't know why he has such an unrelenting hate for Punk, he cites it as a lack of talent but as we all know ; Punk is the best all around performer in the company today, so it obviously can't be that.

Maybe Punk's LOOK rubs him the wrong way? I could see that.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

So I was arguing with someone on here the other day about the AE and how it's wildly overrated, which gets me flamed a lot but hey.... anywho I told him smackdown 2002 alone was greater than the entire attitude era match wise, anyone else agree?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If we're talking strictly 1998 and 1999?

RAW 2003 > Attitude Era (okay that may be a little too far :lol).

1997 and 2000 are both TOP 5 Years in company history though IMO.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

1999 was beyond awful in match quality

cant name a single match from that year id willingly call 'great'


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> 1999 was beyond awful in match quality
> 
> cant name a single match from that year id willingly call 'great'





KingOfKings said:


> If we're talking strictly 1998 and 1999?
> 
> RAW 2003 > Attitude Era (okay that may be a little too far :lol).
> 
> 1997 and 2000 are both TOP 5 Years in company history though IMO.


Im a huge fan of 97 which I consider the brink of the AE not really the ae, and 2000 is the only year of the ae I like although 01 had some good stuff too and the only mania that wasn't total shit in the AE. 

BUT 2002 IS WWE best year ever by a wide margin although my favorite is 09 and 12 for personal reasons.

WOOLPUSSY I agree witb you. Btw 99 and 95 are my least favorite years ever vince russo was a shit booker if every ma5ch and every show has a swerve than it isn't a swerve what a dumb ass


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh::argh:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

1999 was my first year of watching any sort of wrestling, so it will always have a spot in my heart even if WWF/WCW were awful. I do strongly feel that at the very least, the No Mercy tag ladder match should be considered a classic. One of the most innovative matches I have ever seen, and a true starmaking performance.

Taker/Angle vs. Lesnar/Cena from Smackdown in 2003 does not get the attention that it deserves. Heck, I even forgot to put it in my list of underrated Cena matches. 

Does anyone know where I could find the Benoit/Kane 2004 RAW match? I honestly don't remember a thing about it, but it has such high critical acclaim that I must see it.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^^^ its legit. Used to be on mega upload a while back not sure if it still is. One of the mods here posted in the match section a while back


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Faraday said:


> The ending of the match, including the winner is part of the overall story of the match. You can't seperate them. It's like, a wrestling match is a story and the ending is a vital part of any story. Well "should" is a weird question, it certainly does. Liking a match up until the ending and hating the victor/manner the victor achieved the victory is going to affect people.
> 
> Was the story of the match affected by Cena beating Brock? Well it's certainly different than if Brock wins. People not liking the ending is fairly understandable. I mean I actually think given the way the match was booked Cena winning wasn't a bad thing. I still didn't _like it_, but having Brock basically squash your top guy and then pin him would have been weird. Cena's win looked like it was kind of lucky/showed great resilance and Brock looked like an absolute beast and was protected in the match. So it worked fine. Not gonna pretend I like Brock losing his first match back though - but the match was great. Much better than the two HHH matches. ugh.


Just thought people should read this again. The ending/outcome of a match is obviously going to affect its quality.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> So I was arguing with someone on here the other day about the AE and how it's wildly overrated, which gets me flamed a lot but hey.... anywho I told him smackdown 2002 alone was greater than the entire attitude era match wise, anyone else agree?


I agree that it's wildly overrated but I didn't watch in 2002. I'm not saying it wasn't good in some aspects but the AE, especially on this forum, is incredibly overrated.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Sids_chickenleg said:


> I agree that it's wildly overrated but I didn't watch in 2002. I'm not saying it wasn't good in some aspects but the AE, especially on this forum, is incredibly overrated.


Thank you. Someone else who isn't afraid to speak the truth. I would highly recommend looking up all you can find for smackdown 2002 8f you're a fan of in ring work you'll love it. On smackdown and their ppvs. In pparticular nm2002


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Thank you. Someone else who isn't afraid to speak the truth. I would highly recommend looking up all you can find for smackdown 2002 8f you're a fan of in ring work you'll love it. On smackdown and their ppvs. In pparticular nm2002


I'm getting there. I'm mostly into the 80's, especially NWA. As far as wrestling matches go it's some of the best. I know I missed a lot in the 2000's though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Umaga (Last Man Standing ; Royal Rumble 2007) : ***** 1/2*

Yeah this fucking ruled. Cena had a completely out of the ordinary babyface performance, Umaga had one of the best monster heel performances EVER with his intensity and shit, the storytelling between the two were off the charts, they both summoned their WTF AWESOME CHEMISTRY to put together one of Cena's best matches ever and Umaga's BEST. Some of the set ups in this match were brutal as fuck (in a great way, obviously) and done with such intensity that I thought I needed to smoke a J by the time this one was over. The only two things holding this back from being my MOTY from 2007 (apart from HBK-Cena being fucking EPIC) would be the five knuckle shuffle spot (Cena clearly had him down for 10 but opted to go for a five knuckle shuffle for some reason), and the really fucked up ending that makes no sense (never noticed it until douchebag Cal pointed it out, now I can't get over it) what so fucking ever. NEVERTHELESS, it's an epic match and one of Cena's best.

ARMAGEDDON 2008. CENA VS JERICHO. NEXT.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Who wins can absolutely affect the match, but I think it's more important to look at how the Wrong-Person-Win was executed. I haven't seen the match since the day after it aired but I do not have a fond memory of Cena/Lesnar's finish. It all happened so fast and I remember Cena's punches looking kind of weak, especially after the stiff as hell mauling Brock gave him. I could be not remembering that right, but, for one second, let's say I am.....that would *definitely* make the match go down. I do think Lesnar continually mauling Cena with little Cena offense would have been flat, but it didn't feel like Cena built upwards to the finish. I've never really liked Cena's comebacks as they've felt rushed and 'out of the blue', but most of the other matches where he's done that felt like "same old shit again". Cena/Lesnar felt like "Oh no....they aren't....they couldn't...oh NOOO". And I read the spoilers beforehand.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Sids_chickenleg said:


> I'm getting there. I'm mostly into the 80's, especially NWA. As far as wrestling matches go it's some of the best. I know I missed a lot in the 2000's though.


I like a lot of nwa 80s material In particular flair he was the man ziggler sells as great as he did I pray one day they use him like nwa did flair


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I always thought that if a babyface threw weak punches after a heel control segment, then it would mean that perhaps the babyface has been weakened by whatever the heel has thrown at them. Judging by what Cena took in that match (BROCK looked amazing) , the flurry of punches Cena threw weren't that big of an issue... Besides, his big comeback at the end of the match was sudden and impactful with the chain shot and the AA. He didn't really decisively beat BROCK like Triple H did a few nights ago, he more or less escaped with his life intact.

THAT'S IT. I HAVE TO WATCH BROCK-CENA FROM BACKLASH 2003 NOW.

..... The prime example of a 'wrong person win' being executed poorly is definitely both HHH-Orton @ WM XXV and also HHH-BROCK @ WM XXIX. Both matches end with a long HHH flurry of offense that lasts like five minutes each and serves only for HAITCH to get his revenge.

I LOVE YOU GAME, BUT DAMN.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im watching wrestlemania now :mark:


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i rewatched Lesnar vs taker in the cell today

jesus fuck christ

what a brawl

two superheavyweights trying to butcher each other. I dont give a fuck about the no selling in the end, this is one of the greatest all time brawls



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Just thought people should read this again. The ending/outcome of a match is obviously going to affect its quality.


It sounds weird

Its like hes agreeing with me, but somehow Im still wrong


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TAKER TOOK PAIN KILLERS BEFORE THE MATCH. THE NO SELLING HAS BEEN REDEEMED.

Seriously though, MOTY for 2002.

:brock


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Im sorry but seeing the way they bled, Lesnar throwing those steps into Taker's skull, undertaker diving head on into the cage, and Lesnar throwing taker around like hes dolph fucking ziggler

im sorry, there is no other match like it

you know how WWE always says "ive never seen a man manhandle undertaker like this"? theyre fucking lying. except in this match. NOBODY has ever been able to throw taker around like Lesnar did in this match. He fucking reversed a tombstone and threw Taker onto his shoudlers!


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Amazing match up util Taker chokeslamed Lesnar WITH BROKEN FREAKIN' HAND, he completely stopped selling it, nixing all the previous work in the match.

Lesnar/Taker from Unforgiven was way better.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I did not see unforgiven

I did see no Mercy 2003 for some reason

it was not great

Wait, i just realised Taker fought Lesnar in consecutive no mercy's. The hell

Besides, people can chokeslam with broken hands. YOURE NOT A DOCTOR JOERULEZ. YOU DONT FUCKING KNOW


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

It's not just the Chokeslam, it's many other things as well. Which is damn shame, because he was selling it like a motherfucker before that. i.e. he couldn't lift those stairs.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

shield vs orton/sheamus/show = ***


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Look JoeRulz, i took a high school level intro to bio course at my local community college, greendel. so i know a think or two about the human skeletor

you see, what happened wasnt no selling. it was adrenalin, willpower, and believing in yourself

its all very scientific. you wouldnt understand


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WOOLPUSSY


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

What's cena's best match? What about ziggler's? 
For me vs hbk raw 2007 ****1/2-3/4 range for ziggler I liked his summer slam match witb Jericho **** at least maybe higher on a rewatch


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

To Cena match for me is his LMS vs Umaga

No match better represents 'cena' to me

That or his brawl with Lesnar or MITB with Punk


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Seen SS 95 yesterday, and I think that the Bret/Owen match wazs the best steel cage match of all-time. I have it at ****3/4


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

What about the I quit match with jbl? I think tbat solidified the cena will that's so talked about by the wwe


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Srdjan99 said:


> Seen SS 95 yesterday, and I think that the Bret/Owen match wazs the best steel cage match of all-time. I have it at ****3/4


Sslam94 but yeah ****3/4 at least for me


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Srdjan99 said:


> Seen SS 95 yesterday, and I think that the Bret/Owen match wazs the best steel cage match of all-time. I have it at ****3/4


Not a fan

I liked it a lot but didnt make much sense

Too many repeated escape attempts and lack of logic. was owen trying to destroy bret or win the title?



Hbk96rRko09 said:


> What about the I quit match with jbl? I think tbat solidified the cena will that's so talked about by the wwe


Yes it was. classic match. but i prefer the 3 i mentioned

probably in the top 10 too


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> I always thought that if a babyface threw weak punches after a heel control segment, then it would mean that perhaps the babyface has been weakened by whatever the heel has thrown at them. Judging by what Cena took in that match (BROCK looked amazing) , the flurry of punches Cena threw weren't that big of an issue... Besides, his big comeback at the end of the match was sudden and impactful with the chain shot and the AA. He didn't really decisively beat BROCK like Triple H did a few nights ago, he more or less escaped with his life intact.


Weak punches shouldn't damage someone though, especially Lesnar who was an unstoppable murderer in the match. I didn't think they looked weak in a way where the babyface looked exhausted, the just looked weak in a way where they were flat out OBVIOUSLY not making contact. I will admit they weren't horrible Kofi Kingston-level punches, and I don't expect Cena to throw a real good punch (I really, really like hos mid-section blows though - he should stick to those). This is pro wrestling and I have to stretch my belief metre a bit farther than normal life, but I kind of hate strikes like that to DEATH, and the fact they came after a gigantic stiff I Can't Believe This Is Happening match adds to my hate for them.

"[Cena] escaped with his life intact" is one of the better reasons I've heard that the ending is good, but it really felt TOO sudden for me to really get behind. I also hold bitterness toward Johnny Boy for that 'well that was a HOOT' post-match promo. 

I'm really interested to watch this again. Wonder what thoughts will CHANGE.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Well thats the thing. Cena didnt beat Brock. He outsmarted him combined with a lucky break. He found a chain. Brock got waaaaaaaaaaaay too cocky. Tried to hit the same move twice and Cena hit him with the mother of all punches thrown by an immediate mega FU

at that point he was just trying to get out breathing

Those chest punches were surprisingly good though


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Not a fan
> 
> I liked it a lot but didnt make much sense
> 
> ...


Yeah they're all solid the lms was better than the previous match with umaga at new years revolution that match pissed me off to no end


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Just thought people should read this again. The ending/outcome of a match is obviously going to affect its quality.


Ending, in terms if executed correctly or with/without a botch, sure that could play a part. Outcome based out of personal preference changing things? Get out of here with that nonsense.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WHATS MY LINE


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I have Cena/Umaga at five stars. MOTDC.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't REALLY think wrestling and movies are all that comparable, but imagine a movie where the wrong person wind sup on top at the end. That'd hurt it, right? Again it's not the best analogy but a match is a combination of work and booking, and booking can ruin a match. It ruined Punk/Bryan at MITB (I know people like that but I saw it as a lost potential of a great match - both seemed game to have a MOTYC but everyone else got in their way). It didn't RUIN Cena/Lesnar, but it's some kind of stain on an otherwise great memory. The finish doesn't stop Cena/Lesnar from being a great match, yeah (or if you think this way - an all time great one) yet there's something about the match I wish was different and that's the victor. 

It also depends on the match itself. The Miz pins Daniel Bryan on Raw...whatever, that won't change my view. Cena/Lesnar was pretty much unlike any other WWE match ever and 'who wins' kind of affects, even SOMEWHAT, even SOME TINY LEEEEEETLE BIT, how I view the match. I absolutely don't think who won can change a great match from being great or a good match from being good, but would it be a better match if Lesnar went over.... honestly, yeah. Even a tiny bit. If I'm comparing Cena/Lesnar, and a match that is it's COMPLETE equal other than who won, I'd take the other match over Cena/Lesnar. Even if there isn't much daylight between the two matches - there's daylight between the two matches. 

It might be some form of bias, but that what makes the graps so fun. In any other kind of sport (or whatever you'd call wrestling), I think there are clear 'good and bad'. 

'That team is 15th on the ladder - they suck' 
'yeah, they suck. What did they lose by? 140 points? Ha. Suck'. 

'When was the last time that player DIDN'T fuck something up? He sucks'
'pretty sure he tripped over when dirbbling last time. Suckaroonie.'

'hahaha these guys showed up to an Usain Bolt race.'
'why would you even bother? suck.'


Wrestling being scripted leaves so much room for what's good and bad. The discussion is endless. There's not a single pair of people with the same exact wrestling views. 

Oh yeah, uh, where'd I go w/ this? Cena/Lesnar, ummm....dat bork? 



:brock ?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> well here it begs the question
> 
> should the person who won the match affect your rating of it?





Faraday said:


> The ending of the match, including the winner is part of the overall story of the match. You can't seperate them. It's like, a wrestling match is a story and the ending is a vital part of any story. Well "should" is a weird question, it certainly does. Liking a match up until the ending and hating the victor/manner the victor achieved the victory is going to affect people.


For me who wins a match won't necessarily determine the overall quality of a match, so long as within the context of the match and story the finish is well paced and a satisfying conclusion, rather than a messed rush which only sours the overall quality of the match because it felt subpar compared to the earlier work in the match.

Put it this way, the finish of Cena/Lesnar only becomes a problem for me if the final few minutes for me basically ignore the overriding story of the match and feels like an undeserving payoff to the prior work. I personally echo Faraday's point about not being bothered by Cena winning in the context of the match (even if going in I was advocating Lesnar going over), for me as long as the work in the finish is executed smartly and to me feels like an acceptable conclusion to the story arc that dominated the match my overall perception of the quality of the match won't alter. Its only when say the babyface comeback feels stunted, the nearfalls timed poorly, questionable selling and transitions and counters which feel different to the finish they were building to when in the middle of the match etc where the finish of the match could hinder my overall enjoyment.

I understand that to some Lesnar winning would have been more fruitful from a long term booking perspective, though personally when we're talking about the story of the match and nothing more (i.e forget about Lesnar's drawing power and just focus on what was being presented to us in the ring) I thought Cena had just as good a reason to overcome the monster and show astounding resiliency in somehow escaping with the most unlikeliest of victories as Lesnar did of winning and essentially dominating the company ace and in the process announcing himself as a force to be reckoned with.

I can understand people who are peeved/irked by Cena going over when for them all signs of logic pointed to Lesnar winning and becoming a protected colossal character for the rest of his comeback run, but I will forever be perplexed by anyone who could honestly call the match bad simply because Cena went over, especially if prior to the finish they were heralding the match as great. I've seen some people mention that and it honestly does boggle me that everything they loved prior to the finish could suddenly become irrelevant simply because of who won.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Ending, in terms if executed correctly or with/without a botch, sure that could play a part. Outcome based out of personal preference changing things? Get out of here with that nonsense.


This is all so funny. Game of Thrones ending with Shea as Queen Supreme and the whitewalkers all killing each other wouldn't change the quality of the story as opposed to say Danearys finally conquering Westeros only to be consumed by the winds of winter.

Of course personal preference changes things. What the fuck kind of world are you rating your matches out of?

E.g.

"Shawn botched the moonsault at WM 24 twice."
"Well, they both added to the story of the match."

"Triple H mauled Orton over and got his REVENGE."
"But, but, the storyline was all built up for Randy to win.."


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still havn't watched Mania lol (hoping to this week), but i cant wait for Brock's return already, any thoughts on his next match, is he working Extreme Rules?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Best streak matches for me:

1. 26 vs. Shawn
2. 27 vs. Hunter
3. 25 vs. Shawn
4. 28 vs. Hunter
5. 23 vs. Batista

And, Hunter/Brock @ SS was much, MUCH better than what took place at 'Mania. Bombed completely.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWF Raw 11/05/2001 - WCW World Championship: Chris Jericho vs. The Rock

This is a couple weeks after Jericho finally "won the big one" in his feud with the Rock. So he starts walking around like he OWNS the WWF and starts acting like a dick. Man, I forgot how great this match was. I'd put Rock's chemistry with Jericho with Benoit's and maybe even Austin. But men brought a ton of intensity and everything they did was on here. It seemed as every passing minute guys would be getting more pissed off. Good spot in the match was Jericho hit the Breakdown (Breakdown is the Skull Crushing Finale move that the Miz uses) through the table on the floor and still couldn't put Rock away. The finish happens when As Jericho has Rock in the Walls Rock counters to a small package for the 3. Post-Match: Jericho can't believe it, so he grabs the title. Rock gets up, and Jericho runs and hits him in the face with the WCW Title! Jericho then gets a chair and also hits Rock in the face. He leaves, but sees Rock getting up on the tron, and runs and hits him again with the chair again before leaving. AWESOME! ****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

With my WHC project done, it's finally time for me to start my Best Of PG Era TV Match project :mark:

Matches to begin the session:

Jack Swagger vs Christian ECW 2009
CM Punk vs John Morrison Smackdown 2009
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho Last Man Standing
Undertaker vs Big Show Steel Cage
Rey Mysterio & Evan Bourne vs Miz & John Morrison

Heard a lot about all these matches (I actually know too how good Swagger/Christian is), so it's gonna be awesome...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well I finally handed in all my assignments, still gotta study for finals though 

Anyway, now I can finally post my WM ratings

Sheamus/Orton/Show vs The Shield **1/2
Mark Henry vs Ryback *1/2
Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler and Big E Langston ***
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger ***1/2
The Undertaker vs CM Punk ****
John Cena vs The Rock ***

Overall, I'd say it was a good WM and I really enjoyed. I think Shield had their first bad match. I mean, I wouldn't call it a bad match but you know, not up to their standards. But it worked as an opener and to advance a storyline. 

Hnery/Ryback was fun while it lasted. Loved the ending. I question the booking though. At first I thought Henry got the win so they would do the big rematch at Extreme Rules. But after watching RAW, seems as if the direction is Ryback/Cena. Maybe a triple threat? I hope so. That should be fun. I hope Ryback wins. Why? Cause he's fucking over and any denying it, at this point, is just a hater and should come out.

The Hell No match was really fun! I loved every minute of it. Swagger/Del Rio was a sleeper hit for me. I was amazed at how much I enjoyed it. Didn't really catch Jericho/Fandango much. Also Lesnar/HHH bored the fuck outta me. Gotta re-watch that before I put a label on it.

Taker/Punk was really fun. I had it at ***3/4 originally but fuck it. 4 stars it is.

As for Rock/Cena. I found that the match was better than last year's and they teased the false finishes really well. I wouldn't want to re-watch it but the counters and false finishes were really fun. 

It seems as if this year's Mania has gotten mixed review from fans but to me after 2 crappy Manias in a row with 27 and 28 this year's was a breath of fresh air. Enjoyed the event from start to finish.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Wm29 ratings
Shield vs team shaemus ***
Henry vs ryback *1/2
Team ziggler vs hell no ***1/4
Real American vs mexici ***1/2
Jericho vs fandango ***
Punk vs taker ***3/4 -****
Hunter vs brock ***1/2 (favorite of the night expected a terrible "brawl")
Rock vs cena ***-***1/4(better than Last year) 

Overall 7/10 not as bad as people say, not one of my favorite manias but honestly there are more bad manias than good definitely top 8 mania ever imo


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

GOAT's gonna GOAT. :cena3


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm thinking of starting up a new project in the coming days. I was debating on doing something recent; say WWE 2009 or 2010 depending on what was better overall. I remember Smackdown being pretty good in 2009 but was Raw good as well as far as match quality went?

So yeah, WWE 2009 or 2010? Which was better?

EDIT- As I look through the match listings on Cagematch, It's amazing how much more appealing TV matches are when compared to previous years such as 2006 and 2007. I love how the WWE has put somewhat of an emphasis on quality TV matches during the last four years or so.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The outcome of a match matters to me. My initial reaction might bring a quality match down completely but after a while, I'll be more relaxed and appreciate it properly. Lesnar vs Cena being the best example.

And underrated Cena matches definitely needs to have the Undertaker match before SummerSlam 03 and the Benoit match from 4/12/03 included.



KingOfKings said:


> SEE. We're not disagreeing.
> 
> Now all we need is C2D to become a Punk Mark/Rock Hater and the forum shall be saved.


ROCK hater - no chance. Punk mark? Doubt it. I can become more neutral, though.



WOOLPUSSY said:


> I wonder why he hates Punk so much though


Believe it or not, I've eased up recently. That Wrestlemania performance is definitely something worth praising. I think my over the top hate came from how long his title reign just kept going on and on and on and on and on... Now he's out of the spotlight, I might tolerate him a bit more and who knows, maybe I actually miss him during his break? 

And it's not because of lack of talent. I just got annoyed with his marks, many of which are UNBEARABLE and I find him overrated. Some talk about him being among the greatest and shit like that which I don't see at all. He is a solid talent who can deliver when the time calls for it, though. I never took that away from him.



sharkboy22 said:


> Well I finally handed in all my assignments, still gotta study for finals though


I'm so jealous.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, outcome/finish of a match is also important to me. The only thing I hated about Lesnar/Cena is the finish and yes, an ending can hurt a match slightly. It's still a ****1/2 match but the ending was the only negative IMO. To be honest, knowing that Lesnar is only in it for the money and he doesn't really care about losing, my hate for the ending has gone down. Also, the match is over and done with so no point in complaining about it now even though Lesnar winning would have made it better.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

The ending of a match only bothers me if it doesn't make sense in the context of the match. Granted when I watch a match live I might hate the finish but on a re-watch, I'd be able to take the finish into the context of the match and the story being told in the ring. Once I do that, I'm able to accept a finish that I otherwise would have hated.

A prime example of this would be the Austin/Angle match from Summerslam 2001. Had I watched it live, I would have been beyond pissed that such a great match would end in a disqualification. However, the disqualification fits within the context of the match and the story they were telling in the ring. Austin wasn't able to beat Angle on that night so he took the easy way out and started attacking referees until he was disqualified in order to keep the belt that he "sold his soul" for in the first place to win.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Well said and good example used, I totally agree. On the same subject, what matches would everyone say have the most out of place endings? Not necessarily the worst, but ones that didn't fit the story being told at all?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> I'm thinking of starting up a new project in the coming days. I was debating on doing something recent; say WWE 2009 or 2010 depending on what was better overall. I remember Smackdown being pretty good in 2009 but was Raw good as well as far as match quality went?
> 
> So yeah, WWE 2009 or 2010? Which was better?


I'd pick 2009 if you're just going through TV matches. Smackdown & ECW were stellar and the emergence of Superstars delivered some good stuff as well (2010-11 was the peak of Superstars though imo).

From ECW you have Christian & Swagger's reigns. Cal was doing an ECW project and seemed to really dig a ton of stuff on rewatch. Swagger/Christian 2/24/09 is my MOTY for 2009 and honestly maybe a top 20 match in company history for me. I love it that much. Bourne/Morrison from 4/14 and Bourne & The Colons vs Kidd & Miz/Morrison is also a super worked 6 man tag from 4/7. Christian/Regal 8/25 and a rematch in the UK both won favourable reviews from Cal and there's an array of additional matches he'll likely recommend to you. Regal/Dreamer 11/8 is also a really super sub 10 minute match with a wonderful Regal heel performance and surprisingly choice Dreamer performance. 

On Smackdown the summer period sees Punk/Morrison have a really good match off memory during Punk's slow heel turn as well as Punk/Hardy Loser Leaves Town Cage, Hardy/Morrison, Morrison/Mysterio IC Title and a few more matches from the Summer period. Think there's a Punk/Edge vs Morrison/Hardy tag or something close to that lineup that was pretty good (might have been Jericho instead of Punk & Mysterio instead of Morrison). Jericho/Rey also have a couple of matches on TV (a beat the clock match especially) after their PPV spanning feud over the IC Title.

Cal really will be able to give you a better and more in depth list.



GOON The Legend said:


> A prime example of this would be the Austin/Angle match from Summerslam 2001. Had I watched it live, I would have been beyond pissed that such a great match would end in a disqualification. However, the disqualification fits within the context of the match and the story they were telling in the ring. Austin wasn't able to beat Angle on that night so he took the easy way out and started attacking referees until he was disqualified in order to keep the belt that he "sold his soul" for in the first place to win.


I absolutely adore Nick Patricks' spot in that match. Such a gloriously dickheaded way of teasing the sudden 3 count only to pull up and ring the belll in DQing Austin for excessive violence towards a referee. Made the post match Angle attack on him all the more deserved and was such a great way to build additional heat for the return match at Unforgiven.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The ending to Mindgames. FUCK THE WORLD


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Thanks WOOLCOCK. It seems 2009 was actually a pretty great year in terms of in ring work at least on ECW and Smackdown. I remember Raw had some fine matches that year as well (Cena/Michaels and Regal/Punk No DQ) but outside of that, none really stand out. I might just end up doing both years since I'd just be watching the matches that look good, so it wouldn't take me that long as opposed to if I was doing a full length project by watching entire shows.

And the finish to the Mind Games match was atrocious. I don't think anything else needs to be said.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Speaking of projects, my HHH/Benoit one will likely return tomorrow after a brief hiatus due to me being busy and it being Wrestlemania week. The first match up for re-watch is actually the Mania 20 main event, so that fits in nicely.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*WWE Undisputed Championship
Ladder Match*
The Undertaker (c) Vs. Jeff Hardy
WWE Raw 7/1/2002

_I wish I could vocalise the disdain I feel whenever I see Jeff Hardy's name pop up but even bad wrestlers can bring a marvelous performance, especially when that match is the match that got everyone to respect them as a single's competitor. A week before this match 'Taker easily squashed Hardy, then a hardly proven midcarder, in a non-title match-up. As Taker was about to ride out of the arena, a beaten and out-of-breath Jeff grabbed a microphone and begged for a title shot. Both King and 'Taker scoffed at Jeff's wishes, playing them off as the delusions of grandeur that a lot of people have so early in their careers. But Jeff was determined in enticing 'Taker, throwing in a ladder stipulation knowing that he was one of the best wrestlers in that domain and it would bait 'Taker into accepting the match - even if all it would be was a no-DQ opportunity to shut Jeff up permanently.

From the get-go Hardy attempted to take the advantage from the stipulation (a match type 'Taker had never been in before) and his speed, getting an early advantage against 'Taker who levelled Hardy when he stalled. It's from this point that Hardy's plans went out the window. There is room in arguing that 'Taker came across slothlike and unmotivated in his performance, but I'd like to see it differently and more relational to the story that they were trying to tell. He could have made himself a monster in this, but would that not be incongruent to the relentless determination of Hardy? 'Taker's already squashed Hardy but, as JR stated, he just wouldn't die or call it quits. Thusly, instead of seeing 'Taker as painfully slow, I preferred to think of 'Taker as a facilitator for the end of Hardy's career. He wanted to prolong Hardy's embarrassment, toying with him and letting him suffer in pain without knowing when 'Taker would stop pacing around him and land another blow. While it definitely changed the landscape of what a ladder match was at this point (straying away from continual spot-heavy sequences), it still allowed itself the indulgence of innovative offence in Hardy's comeback spots. I'm honestly not sure if I remember anyone else having ever used the ladder as a pool-diving type springboard since. Their minimal usage, too, helped add legitimacy to their impact.

The final moments climaxed in Hardy trying, in vain, to use his familiar weapons for the win, only to have the ladder be the very reason that he picked up the loss. Hardy, full circle from the previous week, stopped 'Taker as he was leaving. This time he didn't beg for a rematch, he cockily stated 'Taker never finished him off and that, while he used the ropes for leverage, he was still standing. Taken aback by Hardy, 'Taker returned to the ring in what everyone, including Hardy, expected to be a beatdown. Taker, however, chose to raise Hardy's hand as a sign of the rookie's greatest accomplishment. That, while he had failed in his endeavour to win the title, he had won the admiration and respect from the champion as well as those who lay witness to Hardy's performance._

★★★★¼​


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

GOON The Legend said:


> The ending of a match only bothers me if it doesn't make sense in the context of the match. Granted when I watch a match live I might hate the finish but on a re-watch, I'd be able to take the finish into the context of the match and the story being told in the ring. Once I do that, I'm able to accept a finish that I otherwise would have hated.
> 
> A prime example of this would be the Austin/Angle match from Summerslam 2001. Had I watched it live, I would have been beyond pissed that such a great match would end in a disqualification. However, the disqualification fits within the context of the match and the story they were telling in the ring. Austin wasn't able to beat Angle on that night so he took the easy way out and started attacking referees until he was disqualified in order to keep the belt that he "sold his soul" for in the first place to win.


I agree it's hard to make a DQ finish in a championship match look good and it was executed perfectly.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

No Way Out 2008 nailed it perfectly

the look of disbelief when cena beat EVERYTHING Orton threw at him, so orton just slapped the ref


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton on the outside screaming "COUNT ME OUT" was awesome as well.

If that match took place in 2013, Orton probably would have asked the referee what his line was.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hoping to finally get through Mania today. And then Raw. Struggling to watch a lot of wrestling atm.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Going to take a gander at Cena-Barrett from TLC 2010, which I originally really liked, thoughts?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Hoping to finally get through Mania today. And then Raw. Struggling to watch a lot of wrestling atm.


What have you watched so far?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

'Mania, IMO:

Shield vs Showmus/Orton - ***1/2
Henry vs Ryback - *
Hell No vs ZiggE - **1/2
Jericho vs Fandango - **1/4
Swagger vs Del Rio - ***1/2
Punk vs Taker - ****1/2
Brock vs HHH - ***
Cena vs Rock II - ***1/4

Brock seemed to have phoned it in, tbh. Looking forward to see what he's like facing a different opponent. Jericho vs Fandango was very disappointing, even moreso because we don't seem to be getting an Extreme Rules rematch since Jericho seems to be on tour. I think 20 minutes instead of 8 would have done wonders for that matchup. I was pleasantly surprised at Swagger/Del Rio not sucking, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not that BROCK phoned it in, it's just that SELLING isn't exactly what an unstoppable monster's strength should be, and since Trips was on offense for literally the last five and a half minutes of the match, BROCK never really got a chance to build to a really awesome heel false finish or anything. That ending STILL pisses me off, not because it was a poor booking decision (which it was, but I can't complain because I don't want Trips to retire) but rather because the finish was so anticlimatic and Brock literally got NOTHING IN.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Going to take a gander at Cena-Barrett from TLC 2010, which I originally really liked, thoughts?


BORING. But it's been over 2 years so I might not remember too well.

Finally getting around to watch SummerSlam 2006 now. Excited about falling asleep during the Booker/Batista match. Can't believe Undertaker was left off the card just because Khali is so terrible so instead they gave away their LMS match on Smackdown two days before and edited it heavily for TV airing.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Going to take a gander at Cena-Barrett from TLC 2010, which I originally really liked, thoughts?


Just watched it for the first time and really enjoyed it. It's a weird stip (especially with no headshots) but they made it work and played to it very well. *** 3/4 probably


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Jericho/Fandango was terrible it was a squash match with a terribly sloppy ending. I wasn't impressed at all with Fandango it this was a match on RAW then ok. But this was Wrestlemania it's basically a dud for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think that's what they were going for, though. Fandango was a rookie getting the best of Jericho and embarrassing him for weeks on Raw, so Jericho - the veteran he is - taught Fandango a lesson on the grandest stage. It was basically a prolonged squash with Fandago stealing a win due to the veteran ironically making a "rookie mistake."


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Can't believe that I missed Jericho/FANDANGOAT & The Tag Titles. I had to leave to go pick up one of my friends because he had an HDMI cable (I wasn't paying 70 bucks for their lazy booking), and I thought I was going to miss the DIDDY performance but NOPE, FORTUNATELY that came on as soon as I got back, so I'm going to need to check those two matches out later.

Summerslam 2006 is a MIXED BAG we shall say. Edge/Cena ROCKS, the DX tag is fun as fuck, Flair-Foley is great, and you have Hogan's last WWE match ever against a 2006 RANDY ORTON. You also have BOOKER VS BATISTA which is fucking AWFUL, and CHAVO pinning Rey Mysterio.

PS: Just watched Cena-JBL from Judgment Day 2008, and I don't get the hate. The match is stiff as fuck for CENA 2008 STANDARDS, tells a great story with JBL heeling it up, and the broken up comeback attempts by Cena were awesome as well. BULLSHIT. OMG IT DIDN'T HAV FLIPZ N NEAR FALLS. **** 1/2*.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I think that's what they were going for, though. Fandango was a rookie getting the best of Jericho and embarrassing him for weeks on Raw, so Jericho - the veteran he is - taught Fandango a lesson on the grandest stage. It was basically a prolonged squash with Fandago stealing a win due to the veteran ironically making a "rookie mistake."


Makes sense but the finish was executed so poorly I just can't get over the match as a whole. I actually wanted to see what he could do because I haven't seen any of his matches prior. I wanted nothing to do with Fandango until the crowd started singing his theme on RAW haha


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rewatching the top half of Mania tomorrow. Really excited off HHH/Lesnar again, I have this feeling I'm gonna really like it...


KingOfKings said:


> Orton on the outside screaming "COUNT ME OUT" was awesome as well.
> 
> If that match took place in 2013, Orton probably would have asked the referee what his line was.


:lmao

Orton desperately needs a heel turn, direction, SOMETHING. We won't get into another Orton discussion though, that could go on for hours...



WOOLPUSSY said:


> Look JoeRulz, i took a high school level intro to bio course at my local community college, greendel. so i know a think or two about the human skeletor
> 
> you see, what happened wasnt no selling. it was adrenalin, willpower, and believing in yourself
> 
> its all very scientific. you wouldnt understand


I'm not entirely sure if this is seriousness or sarcasm, but either way it's a GOAT post. (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

MoveMent said:


> Makes sense but the finish was executed so poorly I just can't get over the match as a whole. I actually wanted to see what he could do because I haven't seen any of his matches prior. I wanted nothing to do with Fandango until the crowd started singing his theme on RAW haha


Yeah, I hadn't seen his prior work either. Am now a fan after Raw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck me Jack, that fucking Brock sig is scary lol, When Brock came back i thought he trimmed down a tad, he looks bloody massive, im hoping to finally watch Mania the weekend if i can, but im more looking forward to Brock's next match with someone else...............i hope.

I was kinda hoping for a rematch with Cena, but with Cena being champ now there would be a slim chance of him giving Brock a win this time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Fuck me Jack, that fucking Brock sig is scary lol, *When Brock came back i thought he trimmed down a tad, he looks bloody massive*, im hoping to finally watch Mania the weekend if i can, but im more looking forward to Brock's next match with someone else...............i hope.
> 
> I was kinda hoping for a rematch with Cena, but with Cena being champ now there would be a slim chance of him giving Brock a win this time.


Shit, you weren't the only one one, man. We were going crazy in here at how jacked he was. Looks like he lost 5 or 10 pounds of body fat.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah brock gained his muscle back since the first time he returned. He's in great shape.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, BROCK looked freakishly jacked @ Mania.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Look JoeRulz, i took a high school level intro to bio course at my local community college, greendel. so i know a think or two about the human skeletor
> 
> you see, what happened wasnt no selling. it was adrenalin, willpower, and believing in yourself
> 
> its all very scientific. you wouldnt understand


:lmao

FUCK YOU MAN! I was eating Doritos when I read that and nearly choked to death laughing.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cena/Umaga - NYR - ***1/2
Cena/Umaga - RR - *****
Cena/Umaga - Raw June '08 - ***1/4

OWNS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They had a match on the 7/17/06 edition of RAW as well, it's short as fuck but it's also an awesome little match with Umaga fucking shit up as per usual and Cena looking hopeless as ever. I threw *** 3/4* at it when I watched it for my JOHN BOY project. They had a number of tags that I also can't wait to check out once I've finished watching every JOHN BOY singles match.

Their chemistry definitely gets the stamp of approval from me.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Brock's random acts of rage was the highlight of the match.



Pierre McDunk said:


> Cena/Umaga - NYR - ***1/2
> Cena/Umaga - RR - *****
> Cena/Umaga - Raw June '08 - ***1/4
> 
> OWNS.


I miss Umaga 

About to watch Rock/Cena II again


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You poor soul.

The least you could do is watch a GOOD Cena match like Cena-JBL @ RR 2009.

Not any of that Rock garbage.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KoK so now that Mania is over are you through with your Cena gimmick?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> You poor soul.
> 
> The least you could do is watch a GOOD Cena match like Cena-JBL @ RR 2009.
> 
> Not any of that Rock garbage.


LOL. Only Cena/JBL match I give the time of day is their I Quit match.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

its not a gimmick, its a way of life :cena2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena/JBL also have an awesome Parking Lot Brawl from _The Great American Bash_ 2008. Their second best after the I Quit match.

And halfway through SummerSlam now. FLAIR is so fucking awesome. DAT INTENSITY!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:bosh

edit SS 06? Flair/Foley BRUTALITY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> edit SS 06? Flair/Foley BRUTALITY.


Yep. Also have to put over that backstage segment in the beginning with Booker and Edge. Made me laugh when Edge said Lita is the women's champion and Sharmell responds with "That matters NOT!".

And oh god, now it's Booker vs Batista time. KILL ME NOW!

edit: just checked wikipedia and it says the match is only 10 minutes long. THANK GOD! Thought it would be another terrible experience of Batista's DUDs like the one with JBL.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Cena/JBL also have an awesome Parking Lot Brawl from _The Great American Bash_ 2008. Their second best after the I Quit match.
> 
> And halfway through SummerSlam now. FLAIR is so fucking awesome. DAT INTENSITY!


Oh wow I don't remember the Parking Lot Brawl.

and Flair/Foley :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey Lesnar Bluray came back in stock today on SV, ordered it along with Backlash 09, and then another Bluray that I'm gonna give away for FREEEEEE on my BLOG~! at some point . I got it for free with the buy 2 get 1 free offer so yeah. LESNAR BLURAY.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Big Z said:


> Yey Lesnar Bluray came back in stock today on SV, ordered it along with Backlash 09, and then another Bluray that I'm gonna give away for FREEEEEE on my BLOG~! at some point . I got it for free with the buy 2 get 1 free offer so yeah. LESNAR BLURAY.


Rock vs Cena Once In A Lifetime?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Platt said:


> Rock vs Cena Once In A Lifetime?


:lmao

I'm not that cruel...

*changes order*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> KoK so now that Mania is over are you through with your Cena gimmick?


WHAT GIMMICK?

:cena3

I think I'm going to wait until my CENA project is done and over with before I do anything honestly. I'll probably change my avatar and sig back to Punk/Game/BROCK then as well ...... I'm more a fan of the three than I am of JOHN BOY. I think if I was listing my favorite guys all time it would go a little something like this ;

1. Triple H
2. CM Punk
3. BROCK LESNAR
4. Bret Hart
5. Ric Flair
6. John Cena
7. Randy Savage

Then you have Jericho/Benoit/Taker/Vader/SCOTT STEINER who I also love to fucking death.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I thought the Roid was one of your favourites? :cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You thought wrong.

:cena3

Cal giving away Rock vs Cena would be BLOG SUICIDE as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Worst. Prize. Ever.

I wouldn't even order that DVD/Bluray set even as the free item in a buy 2 get 1 free offer lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You should have a contest or something where you give Rock vs Cena to the person who gets last place .

My girlfriend actually bought it for me last year for my birthday (in addition to a few other DVDS), and the year before she bought me Wrestlemania XXVII, so you know what that means ;

SHE BOUGHT ME MIZ VS CENA TWICE! 

BRB, dumping that bitch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wish I had someone to buy me terrible presents .


----------



## ThaKing (Jul 21, 2006)

So I took a break from wrestling for a few years, and only caught occasional matches. The last big match I remember being blown away by was HBK/Taker at mania 25, which I thought was a ***** match. I just recently watched the 26 match and would give it ****1/2. I was wondering what the general consensus was for the rematch?

Also, need to watch some great Punk matches form the last couple years. A rundown of his top 5 would be awesome. Thanks guys.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You say that until you're looking at a stack of DVDs that include Rock vs Cena, Over the Limit 2011, CRAPitol Punishment, and the NWO DVD.

I will give her this though, she DID buy me the Jericho DVD as well as the Ladder Match DVD for Christmas a few years ago.

ALL IS FORGIVEN.

EDIT: The Mania XXVI match I have @ ******* and as my 3rd GOAT WWF/WWE Match just behind HBK/Taker HIAC and Bret/Owen WM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

General consensus for the WM 26 Taker/HBK match is that it isn't as good.

But the right opinion is that it is even better . ***** all the way. And yet it still doesn't come close to their HIAC match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The only wrestling related gift from.my girlfriend was the WM17 DVD.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Michaels/Taker WM 26 is my definition of a perfect match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Mania 26 match is worthy of being the GOAT.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Moonsault to leg, Taker's selling, Shawn crawling up Taker, that convo, and then slapping him followed THE BIGGEST TOMBSTONE EVER

yeah

suffice to say, its an all time classic


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The best match since HIAC I for sure.

Honestly one of the like, FOUR matches you can make a legitimate GOAT WWF/WWE case for.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Moonsault to leg, Taker's selling, Shawn crawling up Taker, that convo, and then slapping him followed THE BIGGEST TOMBSTONE EVER
> 
> yeah
> 
> suffice to say, its an all time classic


Good call. All of those parts are epic. The moonsault to Taker's leg was fucking incredible from that far away, and being that that was the part of Taker's body Shawn had been working the entire match. The fact that he hit a moonsault on that leg from that far away on the leg is ridiculous. And the tombstone was the best tombstone ever. :clap


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hbk/taker wm26 is ***** for sure whoever says it isn't very good is a plum fool


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

ThaKing said:


> So I took a break from wrestling for a few years, and only caught occasional matches. The last big match I remember being blown away by was HBK/Taker at mania 25, which I thought was a ***** match. I just recently watched the 26 match and would give it ****1/2. I was wondering what the general consensus was for the rematch?


I recently watched all of Taker's matches at Wrestlemania and I gave the exact same ratings as those two. The rematch obviously had a better story leading into it and I loved what they did concerning Michaels' obsession with beating Taker, but it fell flat in terms of match quality in comparison to their match the year before.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Google'd (GOOGLE. NOT BING) GREATEST WWE MATCH EVER just to see what the 'general consensus' was. Looked at 10 lists AT RANDOM just to see what hilarity I could potentially dig up. 

Here are my findings :

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker Wrestlemania XXV (4)
Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat Wrestlemania III (2)
Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania X (1)
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin Survivor Series (1)
Bret Hart vs Davey Boy Smith Summerslam (1)
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker IYH Bad Blood (1)

WHAT A JOKE. If somebody tried to tell me that any of these matches were the GOAT besides the Cell match I'd probably hit them (although Bret-Austin and HBK-Taker WM XXV are both in my top 10 matches ever, NOTHING is in the same league as my top 5 matches..).


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Hbk/taker wm26 is ***** for sure whoever says it isn't very good is a plum fool


Yup. A personal favorite of mine. I honestly think that it's better than their first WrestleMania encounter.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*SummerSlam 2006:*

Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero - ★¾
- The action is not very interesting and below what Rey is normally capable of. Doesn't help that everything surrounding this is just _awful_. I'm so bored of these Eddie-related storylines by this point. Vickie's involvement does this no favors either. I feel sorry for Rey in this year. Not only did he have to put up with the death of his close friend, he also had to put up with these terrible storylines to the point that his matches are more about Eddie than himself. Fucking Vince and his love for exploitation of such things. And the crowd also hates this bullshit as they booed both men every time they tried to use Eddie's moves. If there's one good thing about the Benoit tragedy, it's the fact that Vince couldn't have used it to create more terrible storylines like this on TV. 

Big Show vs Sabu - ★★¼
- Just a fun short match that's more about SPOTZ than anything else. That's all you've come to expect from Sabu and he doesn't disappoint for the most part. That said, the DDT on the table spot was fucked up badly when the table fell off the steps and Sabu had to adjust its position while Big Show stood there waiting like an idiot. Made both look bad but there's enough to make this enjoyable.

Hulk Hogan vs Randy Orton - ★★¾
- Crowd is very lively for this and it's no surprise as we got Hulk Hogan here. The match itself is also not as bad as you'd expect a match involving Hogan weeks after injuring his knee at home. He's in control for a large portion and that's what makes this less good than it could've been. Orton carries this to the best of his abilities by selling like a champ and then when he gets some offense in towards the end, he does some great work on Hogan's leg. Also nearly wins with the RKO but Hogan gets his foot on the rope. After that, it's the same ol' song and dance with Hogan's 5 moves of doom and hulking up resulting in him winning. Absolutely terrible decision that made no sense, specially since it remains Hogan's last WWE match ever. But I doubt Orton would mind it as he's honored enough to have been in the same ring as the Hulkster and you can see how pumped up he is by looking at his face after his entrance. I also wish Orton would wear this color combo for his trunks again with the logo being white and green.

Ric Flair vs Mick Foley - ★★★★
- Absolutely epic "I Quit" match. Foley controls the early portion but then Flair takes over and he really enters psycho mode as his face is so covered up with blood that he looks like a zombie. Awesome performance by both and I think everyone knows how great this match is. Foley also quits for the first time ever when Flair refuses to win the match until he makes Foley quit. FLAIR and his potty mouth, though. <3

King Booker vs Batista - ★
- What is this shit? Crowd chants "Boring" and how does Booker respond? By putting on a chinlock! :lol A dull 10 minute match and the best part of it is Batista doing a Jackhammer followed by "Goldberg" chants I think. Where did _that_ come from? Also the finish is about as stupid as it can get. Just a complete mess.

DX vs Vince & Shane McMahon - ★★★¼
- Pretty fun match. From the first half with the McMahons getting all the heels to destroy DX followed by performing a bunch of tag team finishers - it was just fun. Then the obligatory DX comeback which gets stopped by Umaga's interference until Kane attacks him. It's chaotic towards the end but really fun and that Coast to Coast being countered into a Sweet Chin Music was awesome! DX overcome the odds again like always!

Edge vs John Cena - ★★★¾
- A solid main event. Despite it being in Boston, Cena still gets a mixed reaction. Starts off a bit slow when Edge is in control but really picks up in the second half when the action is more divided with both getting a bunch of offense in. Some shenanigans in the end but good enough to make Edge look not too weak and protecting Cena from a clean loss. Hogan whined about not getting the main event and the crowd being dead for this but as usual, that motherfucker is lying! Crowd is full of life here and into every move both guys do. Not the best of their matches but really good.

*Overall:* ★★½ out of ★★★★★ (A mixed bag like said before me. Nothing is really GREAT but the "I Quit" and main event are both up there. The tag match is also fun while the rest of the show is around the average to poor mark. Also none of the matches even go longer than 15 minutes which surprised me. Not one of the best SummerSlam's but a decent one with some worthwhile stuff. The commercials for this were awesome and that "Cobrastyle" theme really takes me back to when this took place.)


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

After watching Rock/Cena II again the second half of the match was actually pretty great. I'm not sure why they resorted to so many rest holds early on, maybe to prolong the match and preserve The Rock's stamina? Possible and Rock did look pretty good throughout the match but the holds were dull and took the fans completely out the match (A small boring chant broke out during one of them) but they came alive later on. Loved the spot where Cena faked doing the Peoples Elbow it would of been perfect if they ending the match there with an AA. Another thing I didn't like about the match was the excessive amount of finishers used. They're called finishers for a reason but nonetheless Cena wins and Rock tells him post match he came back for "them" (fans) and for this moment which is good for The Rock to give back to the WWE. 

All in all this should of been the true "Once in a Lifetime" match. Last year's match lasted way too long but the atmosphere for the match was superb and that Once In A Lifetime atmosphere clearly wasn't there for the rematch. It's a shame but all in all both matches were decent don't know what I'd rate them guess in the ***1/4-1/2 range.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

HBK vs. Taker WM 25 = GOAT streak match
CM Punk vs. Taker WM 29 > HBK vs. Taker WM 26


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't like WM26 HBK/Taker as much as 25... I didn't think HBK did everything he could given the story to win.. Not that he would have, but I expected more for some reason.

Taker's best match at Mania is HBK at WM25


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I loved that Cena segment. 10/10 for the GOAT :cena3


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Cena trolling the fans that hate him is a lot better then " you buy your ticket so its your right to boo me".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BANKSY said:


> Cena trolling the fans that hate him is a lot better then " you buy your ticket so its your right to boo me".


This.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> Cena trolling the fans that hate him is a lot better then " you buy your ticket so its your right to boo me".


It actually made me hate him. Mocking a heel turn is ridiclous and not only that confuses kids at home.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BANKSY said:


> Cena trolling the fans that hate him is a lot better then " you buy your ticket so its your right to boo me".


Troll Cena is actually very entertaining and the next best thing to a heel turn. Really hope he keeps this tweener character where he constantly trolls his haters instead of going back to that goody two shoes character where he tells poop jokes and talks about how amazing and hate-free he is.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lazyking said:


> It actually made me hate him. Mocking a heel turn is ridiclous and not only that confuses kids at home.


Fairly sure if something goes over a kid's head they just ignore it. I don't see the issue.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Summerslam '06

Rey/Chavo - **1/2
Sabu/Show - **
Hogan/Orton - ***
Flair/Foley - ****
Batista/Book - DUD
DX/McMahons - ***3/4
Cena/Edge - ***1/4

Solid show, I really liked the DX match as I loved the whole McMahons vs HBK along with the DX part too. I remember being a little disappointed the night it happened but I liked it more on a second watch.

And HBK/Taker from 26 is ***** and my 2nd favorite match of all time.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Dolph Ziggler vs. Chris Jericho - Summerslam 2012 ***3/4*

Really good opener to Summerslam. Dolph Ziggler makes good work on Jericho's ribs that he injured a couple days prior. Dolph lives up to his "Show Off" moniker by verbally berating Jericho by saying he couldn't hang with him and mimicking Jericho's flexing pin. The match had great back and forth action and Jericho sold the injured ribs really well, especially when Ziggler countered the Lionsault. Jericho picks up the victory with a sick Liontamer and that brings an end to a really good opener.

*Dolph Ziggler vs. Chris Jericho - WWE Raw 8/20/12 ***1/2*

Ziggler's Money in the Bank contract and Jericho's career is on the line for this one. The match starts up at a quick pace with Jericho trying to get quick pins to emphasize the ramifications of the match. Again, these two put on a hell of a showing with great back and forth action and Ziggler picking up a clean victory. Really good TV match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Never saw a single DOLPH-JERICHO match, dead serious.

Going to order the Summerslam DVD just so I can watch that opener in perfect quality, I imagine it's quite a match considering Y2GOAT is in it with DOLPH "HAM" ZIGGLER.

GOING TO ASSUME *PMD'S* favorite match ever is HBK-Flair or Cena-Umaga, no?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

DOLPH/Jericho matches were both very fun. Hoping DOLPH gets some quality opponents the caliber of a Jericho or Bryan during his reign.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nah, DOLPH's probably going to be wrestling Alberto "man of a million rematches" Del Rio for the entire duration of his feud, which really, really fucking sucks/blows/whatever other words you want to insert here.

If this is all some big elaborate set up to get the title back on Del Rio..... Fuck this company :lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

While I don't want Del Rio to win the title back, there are worse opponents for DOLPH. At least ADR can go in the ring, even if the feud will likely be boring as fuck.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan for the World Heavyweight Championship :mark:

I loved their Bragging Rights match and their other subsequent matches on Raw and Smackdown. If they faced each other for the World title, it would be awesome!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, in a perfect scenario Bryan will end the tag reign w/Kane to pursue singles gold once again, and challenge Dolph to a 20+ minute PPV match for the title like he did w/Punk last year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Del Rio's feuds are ALWAYS fuckery.

That Sheamus feud may be the worst long term program EVER.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Should be very obvious that Ziggler is holding it to freshen up del Rio for another run. Swagger feud murdered his character and a lot of the interest in del Rio for the majority fanbase (not an insult to Swagger, bloody USA chants).

Some random matches, after finally getting myself back into my JCP stuff.

Barry Windham vs Ric Flair 01/13/87 ***3/4
Barry Windham vs Ric Flair 01/20/87 ****3/4+++
Wrecking Crew vs two jobbers 02/14/87 **3/4 (a squash, but such a good one)


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Saw taker/punk for a third time and I fucking love it. It's near perfection. I don't care what people have to say about this match but I'm bumping it upto ****3/4


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Del Rio's feuds are ALWAYS fuckery.
> 
> That Sheamus feud may be the worst long term program EVER.


I don't even know how they made the program as long as it was with Del Rio always losing :lol


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Del Rio's feuds are ALWAYS fuckery.
> 
> That Sheamus feud may be the worst long term program EVER.


I basically agree with this. The only time Alberto Del Rio was ever even worth watching was when he was feuding with Big Show recently for the WHC title. At that time I considered Big Show the second best heel in the company right behind CM Punk. The only reason Alberto ever got any reactions in the first place was because Big Show's great heel work. Alberto can't get over as a babyface or a heel and that's simple. WWE has pushed him about as hard as anybody over the last couple years outsider of Cena and perhaps Punk.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought his feud with Mysterio was alright for what it was. I remember that they had a 2/3 Falls match on the first Smackdown of 2011 that I really liked.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Anyone else have punk/taker from mania at ****3/4?

Btw anyone care to do a top 10 match list for the undertaker ? Would be interesting to see people"s opinions


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> What have you watched so far?


Up to Del Rio/Swagger. Punk/Taker next.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Sheamus vs Del Rio. Ugh. I hate that feud so much.


The only time I was interested in a Del Rio feud was with Rey Mysterio during his first run on Smackdown. They put on some really good matches together. His feud with CM Punk was also pretty good. Their WWE championship match on RAW was wonderful (CM Punk using the classic Eddie Guerrero chair tactic :mark.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

It is funny, all of Sheamus's feuds during his reign were shit, but produced awesome matches (Bryan, Ziggler, one Del Rio match I think, and Show) as well as awesome TV matches (Tensai, Sandow, Ziggler again, Bryan again and Show again )

And on the Punk/Taker note, I still have it at the full 5 after 3 watches, it is so damn good, maybe the best storytelling I have ever seen in a match, AND DEM FACIALS :mark:


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Glad to see someone agrees with punk/taker being rated highly. Gotta agree with tanner, that match was just perfect. The storytelling, pacing, wrestling, sequences were all brilliant. I don't get how people are saying this was "average" it was far from average. An all time mania classic infact and once all is said and done it will definitely be a top 10 taker match. It just annoys me when people go around calling this match average, like seriously!?!

On a side note, sheamus had some great matches during his title run but the guys just so damn boring in terms of his gimmick/mic work and fueds. His best match was with bryan at extreme rules. Have it at ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Summerslam '06
> 
> Rey/Chavo - **1/2
> Sabu/Show - **
> ...


(Y)

Not much difference between us, except for I prefer Cena vs Edge over Flair vs Foley. _(the false finishes took me out of it)_ DX vs McMahons though. You and I man, we're like the biggest advocates of those matches from '06. Unsure how you feel about the HIAC from Unforgiven, but I love that one too.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Shield vs. Tons Of Funk/Kofi from Main Event is worth a watch, but then again..everything Shield does is worth checking out.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Anyone think bret/austin wm 13 is over-rated? It was a bunch of brawling through the crowd, random moves, use of weapons and a good ending which made austin but that doesn't make it a GOAT match as people make it out to be? Honestly the match barely had counters, interesting sequences or drama. It was okay and it wasn't much different to hhh/lesnar from last night in hindsight and had a similar formula. Probably going to get bashed for this but it's my opinion. The match was nothing special in my eyes, never had me on the edge of my seat or had me excited and it was a pretty short match for a big match


----------



## ThaKing (Jul 21, 2006)

HWRP said:


> Anyone think bret/austin wm 13 is over-rated? It was a bunch of brawling through the crowd, random moves, use of weapons and a good ending which made austin but that doesn't make it a GOAT match as people make it out to be? Honestly the match barely had counters, interesting sequences or drama. It was okay and it wasn't much different to hhh/lesnar from last night in hindsight and had a similar formula. Probably going to get bashed for this but it's my opinion. The match was nothing special in my eyes, never had me on the edge of my seat or had me excited and it was a pretty short match for a big match


IF you enjoy wrestling, you should fucking love this match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Bret/Austin is legit greatness, IMO. The full *****. DAT 1997.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My brother wants me to fly out to Edmonton in a month to go to the Smackdown tapings (weird, considering he is NOT a Wrestling fan) there, and I was curious as to what those tapings are actually like?

THE LADY KILLER would know.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

HWRP said:


> Anyone think bret/austin wm 13 is over-rated? It was a bunch of brawling through the crowd, random moves, use of weapons and a good ending which made austin but that doesn't make it a GOAT match as people make it out to be? Honestly the match barely had counters, interesting sequences or drama. It was okay and it wasn't much different to hhh/lesnar from last night in hindsight and had a similar formula. Probably going to get bashed for this but it's my opinion. The match was nothing special in my eyes, never had me on the edge of my seat or had me excited and it was a pretty short match for a big match


Nope, not at all. That match pretty much owns. I do find their Survivor Series 96 match to be miles better, however.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> My brother wants me to fly out to Edmonton in a month to go to the Smackdown tapings (weird, considering he is NOT a Wrestling fan) there, and I was curious as to what those tapings are actually like?


Probably pretty shitty. 

Smackdown might be okay though.

Edit: This sounded a lot better in my head.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Top 10 Taker match list anyone? Gonna do one myself soon, definitely going to have hbk/taker bb 1997 at no.1. GOAT match


----------



## joeycalz (Jan 8, 2010)

HWRP said:


> Glad to see someone agrees with punk/taker being rated highly. Gotta agree with tanner, that match was just perfect. The storytelling, pacing, wrestling, sequences were all brilliant. I don't get how people are saying this was "average" it was far from average. An all time mania classic infact and once all is said and done it will definitely be a top 10 taker match. It just annoys me when people go around calling this match average, like seriously!?!
> 
> On a side note, sheamus had some great matches during his title run but the guys just so damn boring in terms of his gimmick/mic work and fueds. His best match was with bryan at extreme rules. Have it at ****1/2


I have Taker/Punk at ****1/2, tied for the third best streak match with Taker/HBK 2 from WM 26. The only thing that you could have wished for is if the match had gone on another few minutes. The pacing was right, the crowd was there, the storytelling was fantastic and it had just the right amount of near falls.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

2004 or 2006 PPVs; what year ya got!?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> My brother wants me to fly out to Edmonton in a month to go to the Smackdown tapings (weird, considering he is NOT a Wrestling fan) there, and I was curious as to what those tapings are actually like?
> 
> THE LADY KILLER would know.


I haven't been to a Smackdown taping in a few years but it's pretty much like going to a RAW show except you have to keep reminding yourself it's Tuesday when a wrestler says "Friday" haha


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

MoveMent said:


> I haven't been to a Smackdown taping in a few years but it's pretty much like going to a RAW show except you have to keep reminding yourself it's Tuesday when a wrestler says "Friday" haha


I remember going to a taping when I was young and I remember being so confused like this too :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Was there any good 2006 PPV besides One Night Stand and No Way Out? One of the many reasons why I detested that year was because of the low quality of PPVs.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlemania 
Backlash 
Judgment Day
No Mercy

All are really good. If you're a fan of GIMMICKZ, Unforgiven and especially Armageddon are great for you, trust me on that one.

Safe money is on No Mercy though, as it features a top 3 Kennedy match ever w/ Undertaker, a pretty good fatal four way main event, Hardy-Helms, a Chavo match that I can watch without puking, and also features London/Kendrick against DAMIEN FUCKING SANDOW.... Did I mention that it also has the AWESOME BENOIT-REGAL match?

WATCH IT.

BTW Here's something bizarre ; I was looking at WWE.COM's Top 50 Cena matches that they made in November to see how laughable it was, and they actually UPDATED IT and put Cena-Rock II @ Number 23. What the actual fuck on that one? It's funny because if I were to do a top 50, only about 20 of those matches would actually make it on there. Some of the choices that WWE.COM had up there were fucking HILARIOUSLY BAD. They took Cena vs Khali off the list even though it was number 47 and not 50 ; shows you how much those fucking retards care/know.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Maybe the list counts the importance of the match, not the quality. Actually that's probably not true because that match should be in the top 5 if it was in terms of importance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In terms of importance, the Wrestlemania XXIX match is number one with the Wrestlemania XXVIII match being a close second. It doesn't get any bigger than those matches actually believe it or not. I can't fucking stand The Rock what so ever, but that doesn't stop him from being one of the three most popular performers in WWE history. Main eventing with The Rock means more than say, HBK/HHH for sure due to the crazy crossover appeal.

If I'm throwing out Cena's top five BIGGEST matches ever I'm saying this ;

vs Rock (WM XXIX ; self explanatory)
vs Rock (WM XXVIII ; self explanatory)
vs Punk (MITB 2011 ; one of the most anticipated matches EVER)
vs BROCK (ER 2012 ; BROCK's return match, UFC vs WWE)
vs HBK (WM XXIII ; Main event on the most profitable show ever since last year)

I hate to be like a ROCK mark and I know it means nothing, but Cena main evented / co main evented the five highest grossing shows ever. CENA GETTIN' DEM BUYZ. Clearly this makes him the GOAT right?

:cena3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you for reminding me of Judgment Day and Backlash 2006. I will concede that they were both good PPVs. I always felt slightly disappointed by Wrestlemania from that year, but the fact that it occurred in the greatest wrestling city ever makes it more than acceptable as well. I'll definitely give No Mercy a look.






Hidden gem from 1999 that's worth a watch.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

No it doesn't. Fandango is the GOAT at the moment. :cena3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HWRP said:


> Anyone think bret/austin wm 13 is over-rated? It was a bunch of brawling through the crowd, random moves, use of weapons and a good ending which made austin but that doesn't make it a GOAT match as people make it out to be? Honestly the match barely had counters, interesting sequences or drama. It was okay and it wasn't much different to hhh/lesnar from last night in hindsight and had a similar formula. Probably going to get bashed for this but it's my opinion. The match was nothing special in my eyes, never had me on the edge of my seat or had me excited and it was a pretty short match for a big match


when is 27 minutes _"too short"_ for a major match?

Safe to say this is a very minority opinion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

First human being to give it any less than Five Stars I do believe.

Universal GOAT match ...... That, and Taker-HBK @ WM XXV has gained a ton of worldwide exposure and will probably be the sexy pick for GOAT match in about 5-10 years.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

2006. 22 was decent and there was plenty of decent material nothing from 2004 really sticks out all for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Among the universally loved matches along with three Undertaker vs Michaels matches. Unsure at what a fifth prospect could be. If one were to slate a "top five" of sorts. Something not very polarizing...Undertaker vs Foley HIAC? I know it is immortal thanks to the spot(s). Not sure how it is received as a match among many fans though. I put it on a pedestal. Can't speak for others, obviously.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock-Austin (XVII) is a big one, as are alot of big time Wrestlemania matches (Think Savage-Steamboat).

I'd definitely say that XXV gets far more love from your average fan than XXVI and the HIAC match though.

PWT had 79 people vote for the top 100 matches ever back in 2008, only for Bret-Austin to come out number one, same with CAL & his GOONS I do believe when they made a list ... SO yeah Bret-Austin = Universal GOAT match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Does anyone see Punk/Cena MITB becoming a common match cited in everybody's top 5/10 in the future? Of course it is too early to make any true estimates, but I don't think I have seen anyone give it less than ****1/2.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

what does 'best technical wrestler' mean exactly?

like ability to reverse shit?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

HWRP said:


> Anyone think bret/austin wm 13 is over-rated? It was a bunch of brawling through the crowd, random moves, use of weapons and a good ending which made austin but that doesn't make it a GOAT match as people make it out to be? Honestly the match barely had counters, interesting sequences or drama. It was okay and it wasn't much different to hhh/lesnar from last night in hindsight and had a similar formula. Probably going to get bashed for this but it's my opinion. The match was nothing special in my eyes, never had me on the edge of my seat or had me excited and it was a pretty short match for a big match


Yes and no. Yes because its not the GOAT match but no because it's an classic definitely. 

Taker/michaels wm25 has been my goat match since the Day it happened, being there live will always be the best moment of my life. 

Hbk taker II is my second place match I was also there live.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Average fan implying casuals? b/c if they're being thrown in the mix then the HIAC match from King of the Ring '98 is a near lock. That match is immortal to many who don't decide to dive deeper into matches and go by straight forward aesthetics.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why XXV is the GREATEST MATCH EVER to the average fan.

BIG ATMOSPHERE? Check.

FAST PACED AND EXCITING? Check.

HOLY SHIT MOMENTS? Check.

AWESOME FALSE FINISHES? Check.

The average fan tends to lean more towards the more adrenaline junkie type matches as being better, that's why the general public hates matches such as the Cena-SHOW matches.

& the term "technical wrestler" is complete bullshit and used by people that have no fucking clue what they're talking about.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

its not a wrestling match

its a car crash

only match harder to watch is mick vs rock at the rumble. refuse to even look at that match anymore


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hear ya, KOK. By that mentality I see nothing wrong with it either. It's received as great by non-casuals alike too. There is generally nothing short of praise for the 25 match between Undertaker and Michaels.

Technical Wrestler is more or less a kayfabe phrase and that's about it. What is it in that world? I suppose the way "Chris Benoit wrestled" would be the only definition behind. Who the hell knows considering it's all fluff.

Undertaker vs Foley is a spectacle. No doubt about it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KURT N BENOIT R TECHNICAL WRASSLERS!

No. They aren't.

Benoit knew how to use proper pacing and selling to TELL A STORY in the ring, Angle is fucking retarded. A good WORKER is one who can go out there and tell whatever story they need to tell in that ring, which is why a guy like Mark Henry is better than a guy like Del Rio in my mind. Del Rio has all of the physical tools to go out there and do any move at any given time crisply, but where's the drive, where's the passion, what story is being told, why is he doing the things he does? That's one thing about the casual fan that really bugs the shit out of me ; they throw out words like "TECHNICAL WRESTLER" to describe who they feel is a good worker without having a fucking clue what they're even talking about.

WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs Edge (Fatal Four Way 2010) : ***

Slow, plodding, boring, dullfest, etc.... The "fatal four way" rendition of Rock vs Cena do with a bunch of dull shit leading to an impromptu finisher fest & Nexus interference. Not much to say about this one except avoid at all costs and go watch a good four way match like the Backlash 2007 main event and not this shit (crazy considering this has three of the four participants of that match, goes to show you how far Orton had regressed, the difference between Sheamus/HBK, and how Edge is overrated anyways).


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Kurt angle is the best wrestler ever because he had an olympic gold medal and he knew how to reverse shit, hit moonsaults off cages and he had a BROKEN FRICKING NECK

and apparently all those things make you the bestest technical wrestler ever

even though its a fake fucking sport


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> its not a wrestling match
> 
> its a car crash
> 
> only match harder to watch is mick vs rock at the rumble. refuse to even look at that match anymore


Super brutal that match will never make an dvd. Its disturbing af, when hbk was gone Foley was my favorite and I remember crying begging him to quit I thought he was going to die. Those chair shots rocky dealt out were lethal af. Traumatizing for a youngster like myself to witness


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's already made several DVDs :lol.

I'm not getting into another Angle discussion, fuck that. Same with Randy "What's my line" Orton in the sense that neither are worth wasting my fucking time to talk about their worthless asses.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

What dvd was it on besides the rumble one itself? I know it wasn't on the rock's dvd


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We can talk about Angle still. SummerSlam 2001, 2002, & 2003. Commence :mark:


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Some fucktard said Kurt carried Taker in their No way out 2006 match

And he ignored Kurt vs Austin Summerslam 2001. Instead he threw the Armageddon Cell match

Sometimes, this forum MAKES ME SO GODDAMN ANGRY


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ANYTHING VS BROCK :mark:

They had some really fucking strange chemistry man. BROCK is still my WOTY for 2003, fuck all that noise.

USING THE ARMAGEDDON HIAC MATCH TO PROVE KURT ANGLE'S GREATNESS :lol :lol :lol :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Some fucktard said Kurt carried Taker in their No way out 2006 match
> 
> And he ignored Kurt vs Austin Summerslam 2001. Instead he threw the Armageddon Cell match
> 
> Sometimes, this forum MAKES ME SO GODDAMN ANGRY


:clap

Oh, the brilliance in the irony.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels is one of my all time favorite matches. It's one of those matches where I know literally everything that happends, even what the commentators are gonna say.

Oh, and Angle/Taker is also one of my all time favorites. Damn, I miss Kurt in WWE.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> What dvd was it on besides the rumble one itself? I know it wasn't on the rock's dvd




It is on The Rock's second set. For the record I actually like the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle vs Michaels WM 21 is more like one of my all time least favorite matches.

the overrating doesn't help. Kind of the trademark example as to why some don't enjoy Kurt Angle's work.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I bought this DVD today.. well, yesterday technically. What do you guys think of it, for those who own it?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I put Taker/Angle SD 2003 over their NWO encounter, anyone feel the same? both are amazing matches though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do too. Can't go wrong with either.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Disc One

CM Punk vs DOLPH Ziggler (RR) : **** 1/2*
Smackdown Elimination Chamber (EC) : *** 3/4*
HHH vs The Undertaker HIAC (WM) : ***** 1/4*

Disc Two

The Rock vs John Cena (WM) : *** 1/4*
Layla vs Beth Phoenix (LOLWUT OTL) : ** 3/4 (Was a fan)*
Christian vs Cody Rhodes (NWO) : **** 1/4*
CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (MITB) : ******

Disc Three

HHH vs BROCK LESNAR (SS) : ***** 1/2*
Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler (NOC) : **** 3/4*
CM Punk vs John Cena (NOC) : ***** 1/4*
The Big Show vs Sheamus (HIAC) : ******

This DVD has some great matches but overall is a huge WTF. I mean first of all, there's only 11 matches on this which is pretty much a complete and utter fucking joke. Secondly, excluding BROCK-CENA is completely unforgivable, no fucking excuses whatsoever for that one. I'm glad we didn't get the superior Punk-Bryan match because it was already on the PUNK GOAT SET anyways, while we got PUNK-CENA, HHH-LESNAR, and SHEAMUS-SHOW on disc three which pretty much rules.

If I were to do MY OWN PERSONAL TOP 11 PPV MATCHES OF 2012, only five of these matches would have even made it... Actually, let's run down through the PPVS shall we?

Punk-Ziggy (MOTN)
SD EC (3rd Best MOTN, complete joke to have on this set)
HHH-Taker (2nd Best MOTN, already a repeat so this is kinda bullshit)

Rock-Cena (4th best MOTN & a repeat to boot, complete nonsense to have this on the set)
Layla-Beth (Best Divas match on PPV in 2012, understandable ... Yet retarded and doesn't belong)
Christian-Cody (Like the 3rd best MOTN to two matches that haven't been released on DVD)
GOAT-Bryan (MOTN, unreleased great pick here)

HHH-BROCK (Top 50 match ever, on no other comps, The match you should buy the set for)
Orton-Ziggler (Great match, no problem with this here)
Punk-Cena (MOTN, only released on comps after this one, great pick)
Sheamus-Show (MOTN, unreleased, fantastic)

Disc three is awesome but if you're a WWE DVD collector, you aren't getting bang for your buck on the first two sets.

AND YES. DOLPH CARRIED ORTON TO THAT GREAT OF A MATCH. OUR REIGNING WHC. DOLPH.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Dark Church said:


> It is on The Rock's second set. For the record I actually like the match.


Me too only thing close to classic from wwe in 99 its just very hard to watch I watched on you tube a while back makes me cringe I will always love and respect Foley he could take anything willingly at that pure legend


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Its too much

Ive seen bumps, risks taken, bodies put on the line, but that match went too far


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Someone go on a spewing frenzy and out some GREAT matches. I'm on a connection with ultra fast speeds and unlimited bandwidth, So i can download all i want.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Funny that the Best PPV Matches of 2012 was brought up, literally started watching it like a half hour ago. 

You left Punk/Bryan off your review btw, Evan.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I just watched Brock/Cena again and stand by my **3/4 rating. I think the blood had alot to do with why people love it. They only used two weapons and the match just never flowed well. There was also only one false finish and it wasn't even at the end.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I agree. If the match had been more conventional and if it used like 5 weapons, woulda been easily a classic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> I just watched Brock/Cena again and stand by my **3/4 rating. I think the blood had alot to do with why people love it. They only used two weapons and the match just never flowed well. There was also only one false finish and it wasn't even at the end.


:faint:

Why does there have to be weapon use and false finishes for a match to be great?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> what does 'best technical wrestler' mean exactly?
> 
> like ability to reverse shit?


From the way WWE uses the term I'd say it ties to amateur wrestling, the ability to apply holds appropriately in the match and yes being able to reverse shit. And a lot of submissions.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PUNK-BRYAN IS THERE NOW.

Anybody else think that they have the second best chemistry in the E' right now behind the obvious Punk-Cena GOAT chemistry?

I think it'd be something like this ;

1 - 834. Punk/Cena

835. Punk/Bryan

17,457. DOLPH/Bryan

18,023. DOLPH/Sheamus


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> :faint:
> 
> Why does there have to be weapon use and false finishes for a match to be great?


If the match is based around weapons being legal they need to be used and with some variety. Also false finishes are what make so many great matches great. Would Taker/HBK from Wrestlemania 25 be as good without Michaels kicking out of the Tombstone and that look in Taker's eyes after he did? The match was good but not great. It was also mostly fight with very little wrestling involved. Stopping matches due to blood kills any momentum. There was also a ref bump early for absolutely no reason.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Except the match isnt based on weapons

or finishes

its Brock lesnar trying to fucking murder cena, break his arm, and enjoying it

Cena's story is that he wont die and hes just trying to make it out of this match in one piece

The blood was needed. And yes, it was a fight. because wrestling in this situation would have made ZERO sense. So would lesnar have going for a lot of finishes. He wasnt trying to beat cena. He was trying to beat the life out of him

The ref bumps added to how much of a monster Lesnar was, and the blood just made it all the more horrific

Every single thing you listed is WHY the match isnt great. It was completely unconventional and THAT is why it was so good.

Its always fucking annoyed me when two guys supposedly hate each other and then just end up 'wrestling' like Triple H vs Austin No way out. You two hate each other, why the fuck are you wasting time with rest holds?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Fudge you guys, Looks like i'm downloading whatever is on Cal's top 100 WWE matches. They should be good considering i like his taste in matches.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

GOATAntics said:


> Fudge you guys, Looks like i'm downloading whatever is on Cal's top 100 WWE matches. They should be good considering i like his taste in matches.


Ever seen hbk / Foley mindgames96? ****3/4 best match ever without an "proper" ending imo


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Watching the Best PPV Matches of 2012 DVD.

DAT GTS COUNTER INTO A FAME ASSER. :mark: I remember watching RR last year, I marked for that.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Except the match isnt based on weapons
> 
> or finishes
> 
> ...


I understand your points and everyone has their own opinions. Ratings are subjective and every great match has someone who doesn't like it. I did like the match by the way I just didn't love it. I also have Austin/Triple H from No Way Out at ***** which you clearly don't from that statement. They were wrestling by the way because Triple H wanted to prove he was better in every way. Hence why there were the three stages of hell.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Eulonzo said:


> Watching the Best PPV Matches of 2012 DVD.
> 
> DAT GTS COUNTER INTO A FAME ASSER. :mark: I remember watching RR last year, I marked for that.


Ziggler always has some sick ass counters and reversals his athleticism and amateur background help him tremendously


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Ever seen hbk / Foley mindgames96? ****3/4 best match ever without an "proper" ending imo


I love that match, I have it at the same rating. There is an unusual spot in the match where Shawn gets pissed at Foley for not running towards the turnbuckle and starts a SLAP-WAR with him :lmao. Awesome match nonetheless.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Triple H/Austin went down from a ****1/2 to ***1/2 on last watch.

It was just a mess with no sense of structure, Didn't love the ending either, seemed weak. All in all though, It was a REALLY, REALLY FUN mess of a match.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Ziggler always has some sick ass counters and reversals his athleticism and amateur background help him tremendously


I agree. His counter on Bryan in mid air when Bryan tried doing a back suplex off the top rope was amazing.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

GOATAntics said:


> I love that match, I have it at the same rating. There is an unusual spot in the match where Shawn gets pissed at Foley for not running towards the turnbuckle and starts a SLAP-WAR with him :lmao. Awesome match nonetheless.


Lmfao hell yea vintage asshole Michaels be is my favorite in every way someone can be your favorite. I love the cbair scm spot sjper awesome. Angle/austin is another awesome non proper finish match I had it at ****3/4 as well on last watch but its been a while


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

This fucking crowd during the SmackDown EC match from 2012. :lol I heard a few boring chants from a group of people, and a "YOU CAN'T WRESTLE" chant for Khali. I don't even remember hearing this last year when I watched it via live stream.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

meh at Austin/Hunter. bad match.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Honestly, the only 2 great things about the SmackDown EC match is 1) Big Show making a hole on top of DB's pod to get in and attack him 2) The tease of Santino possibly becoming WHC. That's honestly it lol.

EDIT: I still laugh at Cody marking the fuck out over how he eliminated Big Show, as if he won the damn title. :lmao


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Eulonzo said:


> I agree. His counter on Bryan in mid air when Bryan tried doing a back suplex off the top rope was amazing.


And his haters say be is okay besides his great selling, yet he has something amazing happen I every match and has been on a tear for A year straight especially on free tv


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> I just watched Brock/Cena again and stand by my **3/4 rating. I think the blood had alot to do with why people love it. They only used two weapons and the match just never flowed well. There was also only one false finish and it wasn't even at the end.


Yeah, this mindset is what I find to be completely wrong with some wrestling fans out there. Couldn't disagree more. That's the baffling part. Laughing @ the generalizing of fans for loving it b/c blood showed up.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> And his haters say be is okay besides his great selling, yet he has something amazing happen I every match and has been on a tear for A year straight especially on free tv


Exactly. I could name quite a bit of great-to-amazing Ziggler matches.

His TV match with CM Punk from late-ish 2011.
His match with Randy Orton from Night Of Champions 2012.
His match with Daniel Bryan from Bragging Rights 2010.
His TV match with Daniel Bryan from 4 weeks ago.
His match with John Cena from TLC 2012.

And etc. These IMO, are one of, if not, his best matches. If they ever made a DVD on Dolph, all of the matches above (aside from the TV match with Bryan from 4 weeks ago) should be featured on it.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^ I agree I liked his cage match with cena too pretty solid. He also had a match on smackdown in 09 with Morrison? That was really awesome


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only matches I'd deem really good or great from that list are the ones vs Punker & Danielson. Not counting the fun recent match vs Danielson either. Which was fine, but more of a less treading on the waters of previous matches both have had before. Cena ladder match was a let down. Should have been better.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

I thought tbe ladder match was decent shouldve been better but still enjoyable I feel like o ce wwe allows him he will constantly have tbe best match on the card. I personally love him vs jericho from sslam but maybe I'm just a giant ziggler mark


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Only matches I'd deem really good or great from that list are the ones vs Punker & Danielson. Not counting the fun recent match vs Danielson either. Which was fine, *but more of a less treading on the waters of previous matches both have had before.* Cena ladder match was a let down. Should have been better.


I know, but I still think it's good for a TV match. They did the same thing in their match on RAW the night after Bragging Rights.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Still working my way through Wrestlemania. Let me just say that Punk/Taker RULED.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just watched Undertaker vs. Triple H from WM 28... I was going apeshit in my room, at almost 4am. :mark: What a MATCH. It's been over a year and I still think it's MOTN. Wow. Dat shawn, dat taker, dat triple h.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Punk :mark: :mark: :mark:

Couldn't have been happier as a fan. That was the match we all know both men were capable of having with each other. The '09 series never got quite the emphasis it needed. Thankfully it has been rectified and at WrestleMania no less.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena/Taker next year has the potential to be a ***** match, more so for atmosphere, psychology and storytelling. Not to say the pure wrestling part won't be good, cause it will, their earlier matches have proved this.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm down for Cena/Undertaker.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Undertaker vs Punk :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Couldn't have been happier as a fan. That was the match we all know both men were capable of having with each other. The '09 series never got quite the emphasis it needed. Thankfully it has been rectified and at WrestleMania no less.


There were a few things I didn't like/thought could be better about the match but all in all it delivered in a big way. Excellent match.

I agree with you on HHH/Lesnar too. Thought it was really good. I can understand why some people didn't like the slow pace but the only real problem I had with it was the dead crowd. A better atmosphere and I'm sure this would be getting a ton more praise. Last few minutes were awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not jumping the gun on this rumor yet. It isn't even a full week past WM 29. I'm not guessing anything for WM 30. b/c that's just insanity by this point. Let things play out.

EDIT ~ Brock/Trips shouldn't change on me for a rewatch, but maybe I'll notice the crowd more the second time around. Not in a negative light. More on a "wow, they weren't very loud now where they?" kind of reaction. Brock was too good in it. Brutal match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Imagine if Cena ends the streak. People would lose their minds.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I thought Lesnar/Triple H had a plodding pace to it which hurt the whole angle for me, similar to Orton/HHH from WM 25, but no where near as bad. It needs a rewatch from myself but i was underwhelmed when i first watched it. 

Some of the spots were just remarkably foolish, Lesnar not moving his arm after being locked in the Kimura 2 fucking times. Michaels' annoying runs into the ring, i know he was needed for the F-5 to make Lesnar look credible, but it just came off as cheap and a waste. 

That suplex through the table though :mark: FINALLY that table broke.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Finally got round to watching Taker/Punk, great match. Hopefully Taker sticks around for Extreme Rules because he looks in pretty good shape.

Taker/Cena HAS to happen next year, the only other match I would accept is Taker/Brock but I don't see Taker taking that risk at this stage of his career.

Probably going to start the Saturday Nights Main Event DVD later, some good matches on it so should be a decent way to spend my afternoon


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk was the only pass I've allowed with the Streak. He didn't get it, no one should. Wouldn't be into Cena dethroning Taker. No matter how strongly I support John-boy. The reactions would be priceless though. Even by those who aren't Undertaker fanboys would rage surely b/c Cena got the huge rub. It isn't worth it though. :hmm:


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> There were a few things I didn't like/thought could be better about the match


Assuming the macho man elbow onto the announce table is one of them? Me too. It was definitely match of the night, for several reasons, but yeah, I wish the table broke for that spot. I went "OH!" but then realized.. the table no-sold lol.

That's the only flaw I can really think of. The way Taker countered the GTS at the end right before he won was slightly sloppy but meh, shit happens plus it's been what, almost 3 year since they last had a match with each other? Last one I can think of was from 2010 before NoC.

But the feud definitely shits all over the one from 2009. Their match from HIAC 2009 wasn't bad, but it could've been alot better. And I won't even get into the screw job.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I thought the urn spot was sloppy and when Punk hit a GTS and Taker no sold it was weird. Only complaints which are small to an epic match


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I wouldn't mind ole Johnny Boy ending the streak, I mean Taker's most likely retiring anyway. So why not leave by putting someone over, even if it's someone that's been on top for 8 years.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Taker's streak should never be broken, not at this stage. 

It would just be another notch for Cena but it wouldn't actually help his career at this point. He doesn't _need_ it.

Taker should retire 22-0 and be the best Wrestlemania has ever and will ever see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Losing to Cena would honestly be one of the worst decisions ever. Losing to the face of the company for YEARS now as his final moment on what is known as his show? It screams terribly unfitting. If anything, defeating Cena on that stage would be the ultimate curtain call on the most legendary WWF/WWE tenure ever seen. He can wrestle vs anyone credible he wants next year. I won't complain either way. Only if this supposed Cena match did go down, the right result is clearly with the Dead Man.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The streak should never end at this point. And I dont think WM 30 will be his last match either. He's gonna do at least 2 or 3 matches more IMO.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Losing to Cena would honestly be one of the worst decisions ever. Losing to the face of the company for YEARS now as his final moment on what is known as his show? It screams terribly unfitting. If anything, defeating Cena on that stage would be the ultimate curtain call on the most legendary WWF/WWE tenure ever seen. He can wrestle vs anyone credible he wants next year. I won't complain either way. Only if this supposed Cena match did go down, the right result is clearly with the Dead Man.


I'm just saying i don't really care for The Streak itself, I only care for the quality of matches being produced in it and the reason it being why Taker comes back every year. I will obviously be rooting for the deadman when WM30 comes around, but i wouldn't really care if Cena wins, yea i'll probably rage live but i'm certain i won't log on to the forums and express hatred infested feelings for the ending of The Streak. Greatest Big Man Wrestler in WWE History is in equal with The Streak, IMHO.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

At this point, there's no chance they'll end the streak. I would actually like to see it end only because it would be an amazing moment, but there's not really anyone big enough on the roster that could benefit from it. I'm still intrigued by this Taker/Shield interaction. What if he doesn't work Extreme Rules? Perhaps this is some sort of tease for next year? Though I highly doubt creative are thinking that far ahead, even though credit to them for the way The Shield has been booked so far.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Id track Vince, Cena and anyone else involved if John boy ended the fucking streak, no way no way no way, it should never end anyway.

My opinion is Taker will indeed retire at WM30, and with the streak intact, but im not sure who he can face besides Cena, Brock - im really not sure about that one tbh.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Even though WM30 seems like the logical time and place to retire, I think Taker will stick around until WM31 to allow him to go up against Cena and then Brock. Seems like those are the two matches being lined up, and apart from those two there's not really anyone else he can face at this stage.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone who says Undertaker is nothing without The Streak is just an embarrassment to the IWC and to the wrestling community as a whole.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not that he isn't nothing without it, but they're linked eternally. You think Undertaker you go directly to his role on the biggest show of the year - IE "The Streak". It's legendary just like himself. The correlation there is immense. Can't deny it. He doesn't need to go out on a loss though. No way, no how. Streak should remain in tact. Don't care how many "top people" are left to wrestle vs him at Mania. It could be anyone and the same result is intended - Streak lives on.

It is all about the performance & the aura of it. You don't need John Cena or Brock Lesnar to make that happen. Though considering the talents of both workers, coupled with their popularity & mainstream appeal, it does breed high, HIGH levels of being the "best" picks for the ultimate big match come WM time. Another fact that is undeniable.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

One thing we aren't considering is that maybe Taker wants someone to break the streak in his final match? In the past he's been open to people ending it (Orton and Angle come to mind) so it's not out of the realms of possibility that he'd want to put someone over big time in his final match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Won't be posted on my BLOG~! for about a week, so figured I'd get it online here before then at least.

*WrestleMania 29*

Once in a lifetime... 2.

Match 1 - The Shield Vs Sheamus, The Big Show & Randy Orton - THE SHIELD AT WRESTLEMANIA. Hells yeah. Surprised that this opened the show over the WHC match, but what ya gonna do? WHC match not opening kinda lead me to believe that Ziggler was gonna cash in. He didn't. Until RAW the next night! And Shield went after THE UNDERTAKER on Raw the next night too. But enough of Raw (which was great), this is WM. And it's THE SHIELD. Babyfaces start off hot, gaining the early advantage mainly because they've been desperate to get their hands on The Shield for some time now. Show tags himself in as it doesn't look like Orton or Sheamus trust him enough to tag him in, and oh man, Show and Ambrose have a super fun minute together in the ring. I can't wait for Ambrose and Undertaker interactions. I mentioned this in my live notes already, but I love that they get finally get the advantage in this match by controlling BIG SHOW. Normally you wanna stay away from the giant and control someone... smaller, but Shield take ANY opportunity they get and are able to keep even The Big Show down with their incredible team work. Makes them look fucking great. Hot tag to Sheamus, and he dishes out some great punishment, before being part of a sick spot involving Rollins who does a suicide dive and ends up head first into the barricade. Does every major Shield match result in Rollins going head first into something lol? Show is great with his giant spear to prevent a triple powerbomb. Show is begging for Sheamus to tag him... but Orton the selfish bastard tags himself in... and ends up losing all the while Show just watches on feeling betrayed. Knockout punch to Orton and Sheamus for being so selfish. Weakest Shield PPV match so far... and yet it's still fucking good. Shield are immense, and after seeing the Raw after WM I absolutely cannot wait for their next 6 man! ***1/2.

Match 2 - Mark Henry Vs Ryback - Really wish they got someone else for Henry to face at WM. Ryback sucks. Henry needs someone either smaller so he can really fucking destroy them, or someone equally as big who can actually work. Henry using Bear Hugs certainly don't win any favours with me for this match. Fuck that hold. LMAO at Lawler saying the fans are booing this match because they expected Ryback to be winning. Couldn't possibly be the boring as shit Bear Hug, could it? Match has some good parts to it. Noting that good, but it stops it from being completely horrible. Pretty much take out the Bear Hugs and this could have been a little better. Finish was weird and a little abrupt, but hey, HENRY gets the win so woo. *1/2.

Match 3 - Team Hell No Vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston - Tag titles on the line here. Again, with the WHC match not opening, and this now happening before it, I was sure Dolph was cashing in. Instead he loses her and doesn't cash in until the next night lol. The call back tease from Bryan's match last year was fucking tremendous and yeah, I thought they might actually go ahead with it and have Ziggler lose that way. Then he could have cashed in later in the night and got his redemption lol. But it didn't end there, which is good because then at least Bryan gets a real match at WM finally. Wish it was a singles match but ah well. Big E was a concern going into the match because based on his FCW stuff I've seen, he isn't that good. But he doesn't stay in long and sticks to basic power shit and he does absolutely fine in his role. ZIg Zag was a great near fall, surprised the match didn't end there. Dolph was super fun in this, as for Bryan, but it seems Kane was in for the majority of the match, but at least Bryan got the pin. Fun stuff, match went pretty much how I expected it to. **1/4.

Match 4 - Chris Jericho Vs Fandango - Fans not signing his entrance music automatically means this isn't good. Just kidding. Wish WM had both a roof and the same crowd as Raw. Would have been more fun to watch. Jericho is the grizzled veteran here, while Fandango is the newcomer that hasn't even had a match yet. I like how the match played on that perfectly. Jericho pretty much just dominated, with Fandango getting shots in here and there when he can. Surprised that Jericho kicked out of the legdrop... since it seemed like it was supposed to be Fandango's finisher, and Jericho just killed it in his first match lol. Some awkward sports here and there (botches, possible miss-communications), and a strange finish, but overall a fun match. Fandango got the win like most people expected, and the way he did it, while looking dodgy, at least worked within the story of the match. Seems they will have a rematch at Extreme Rules, or maybe just on Raw, based on this week's Raw. **1/2.

Match 5 - Alberto Del Rio Vs Jack Swagger - WHC time! Spoiler: No cash in. Makes me sad. But they made up for it the next night on Raw. I need to stop talking about Raw lol. LMFAO, it's WRESTLEMANIA. WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE MATCH. And Swagger doesn't even get an entrance! LOL. Dutch wearing his usual jacket thing but with a shirt and tie under it for WM is awesome. Unfortunately this match isn't awesome. Thankfully it wasn't bad either though. I went in expecting nothing because I really don't care for either guy or their feud, so them pulling out a solid match is all I can ask for. Some nice sequences and bumps throughout the match, and I quite enjoyed the submission counters they did. Shame Del Rio absolutely no sold the effects of the Ankle Lock like a twat. Also didn't like how they (the commentators, and even the fans, though the fans kinda blew most of the night anyway) no sold the Gutwrench Powerbomb. It's Swagger's pin finisher, and it just randomly happened half way into the match to zero reaction and got a normal 2 count like it was nothing. In the end Swagger taps to the Arm Breaker. Enjoyed this one more on a re-watch, but that isn't saying too much. Certainly not a bad match, but between me not caring about either man and Del Rio's shoddy selling along with a few other little things, it doesn't really get into the "great match" territory. Which is a shame because it was looking quite good in parts. **1/2.

Match 6 - The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - Main event time! The build up might have been fucked up with the death of Paul Bearer (wonder what they originally planned?), but I was still wanted to see the match because it's CM Punk and the motherfucking UNDERTAKER at WrestleMania. Had some doubts as to how good it could be, I'll admit, but I was still pretty hyped to see it. Living Colour signing Punk's theme was the only good musical performance at WM since... the last time Motorhead played HHH to the ring. Piddly Diddly earlier in the show was dreadful. I legit had no idea who the fuck he was until afterwards too. All I knew is he was some fucker who started talking over one of the Rocky themes. Now I know him as Piddly Diddly, the fucker who talked over the Rocky theme. Punk is awesome. Just needed to get that out there. We all know it though. But he's awesome from just the little things he does based around his character as he makes his entrance. And then we have Undertaker who is on a whole other level of awesomeness far above even Punk. His entrance was awesome as fuck. All the creepy hands rising out of the floor trying to escape hell where Undertaker has sent their souls or something. I think that's what they were going for? Was an awesome visual anyway. The hands, the mist, the lighting, Undertaker's theme, Undertaker in general. The entrances for this are better than the show so far, and I've enjoyed the show so far! I honestly don't see how WM is ever going to be the same once he retires. NOBODY, and I do mean NOBODY, not Brock, not Rock, not Cena, not HHH, not even someone like Hogan potentially coming back, could ever match the kind of presence Undertaker has at this event and the effect he has on the overall show. Hell wrestling in general simply won't be the same knowing he won't ever have another match once he retires. I know personally as a fan I probably won't care as much once he leaves. Some of the build to this match has been Punk talking about how he can end the Streak without beating Undertaker; he can end it by having Undertaker essentially beat himself by getting DQ'd. They don't play up on that too much in the match, really just at the start, but honestly I don't mind at all. Punk slaps the shit out of Undertaker to start with, trying to get him angry, but Undertaker is clearly able to beat the fuck out of Punk AND stop before he crosses the line and gets DQ'd, so it makes sense that Punk would give up on that idea and stick to wrestling, because he's the BEST IN THE WORLD and truly has confidence in himself even at WM against the Dead Man. Crowd are awesome for the first and only time at this event. And it really is cool to hear someone get a mixed reaction against Undertaker at WM. That's how popular Punk still is. Undertaker brings his A game, despite the fact everyone always expects him to show up looking like some old man who can barely move lol. As long as he can take some bumps and throw his awesome punches, I doubt he is capable of a bad match. And as good as Undertaker is in this match, Punk is actually the better man, but both are tremendous anyway. Punk is able to counter Old School, then hits his own because he can. They tease the Dead Man Dive, and hell I actually thought he was gonna go through with it, but Heyman gets up on the apron and Undertaker ends up charging at him full force and grabs him by the throat until Punk makes the save. Great way to get around the fact Undertaker really shouldn't be doing that move, though I don't doubt for a second that he could if he really wanted. Punk picks up a lot of momentum, then signals for a GTS after messing about with the Urn, and Undertaker manages to come back with a massive Chokeslam! Didn't have the kind of near fall effect that it would have done 5 years ago, but it doesn't stop me from still enjoying the match or anything. Yeah we know Punk isn't winning, but it doesn't make the match less entertaining imo. Big table spot, with Punk hitting the Savage elbow from the ropes, and the table doesn't break, which always makes the move look even more BRUTAL in the best way possible in all honesty. Looks fucking SICK in slow motion on the replay. Totally saw the Hells Gate attempt coming lol. Undertaker rising up while in the Anaconda Vice was a fucking great moment. Reminds me of Undertaker sitting up while in the Figure Four at WM 18. Punk counters a chokeslam, hits a GTS and Undertaker falls into the ropes and springs back with a quick Tombstone OUT OF NOWHERE! Incredible moment, made even better when Punk kicks out! Didn't expect that. Not sure what people feel about Undertaker essentially no selling the GTS, but it was almost like it woke up the Dead Man, who had to hit a big move as quick as possible out of sheer desperation because Punk might very well be as good as he says he is. Last Ride countered ala WM 17 but with the URN instead of a Sledgehammer was great. Didn't for one second believe it was over, but it was still a tremendous spot and near fall. Punk gets cocky once again and does Undertaker's signature pose before setting up the GTS one more time. Great counter sequence, and Undertaker hits another Tombstone! 1...2...3! 21-0! Incredible match. Doesn't match the last 4, but that's just how great they were. Punk was tremendous, Undertaker proved once again that he can still GO better than almost anyone, and the end result is a tremendous addition to the STREAK. MOTY so far, and definitely MOTN. 7 years in a row Undertaker has had the best match at WM. 6 of them were my MOTY overall too. ****1/4.

Match 7 - Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar - No Holds Barred match, and if HHH loses he has to retire! Which is meaningless because he's probably had less than 10 matches in the last 3 years lol. HBK at ringside because... *shrugs*. Lesnar looks hilarious in a beanie hat. HHH looks hilarious with white stuff all over his stomach. Lesnar looks baffled by it lol. Triple H starts the match by going after the stomach of Lesnar, smart given the real life problems Lesnar has had, and given that that is how HHH turned the tide in their SS match in 2012 (though in the end it didn't matter). Then he just stops and throws punches to the head instead. And speaking of head... Lesnar lands on his after taking a clothesline off the barricade. Ouch. Crowd don't give a FUCK from the get go. Nothing to get excited about anyway. Some good stuff here and there, but it's all spread out too much so when something happens and you start getting into the match... they just stop, slow shit down, and do fuck all again for a few minutes. Really kills the flow of the match. SS wasn't exactly a fast paced affair, but it had a great atmosphere to it and a real big fight feel and they did a lot more too. This is just dull. HBK running like a bitch from Lesnar is one of the few highlights. Poor Lesnar needs to stay away from steel steps. He fumbles about with them here and it makes him look dumb, plus he keeps losing matches because of them lol. Lesnar keeps locking in the Kimura, but HHH keeps fighting out before Lesnar can break it. Then HHH attacks the arm of Lesnar and locks in the Kimura lock himself! Lesnar holds on like a motherfucker, refusing to tap out despite teasing it numerous times. Makes the hold look kinda shitty I know, but this IS still pro wrestling and not MMA. HBK superkicking Heyman is awesome. And HBK finally serves his purpose of being at ringside LOL. Lesnar manages to pick HHH up off the ground while in the hold, making him look like a fucking BEAST, and smashes the game onto the steel steps. I've seen people complain about him constantly getting put in the hold again and again after breaking free, but the way I look at it is that he manages to escape but is too hurt to follow up, allowing HHH to lock it in before he has chance to recover. Lesnar goes to the well too often, and instead of smashing HHH onto the steps for a third time, HHH counters with a DDT! This is followed up with a sledgehammer shot, and then a Pedigree on the steps and Lesnar is defeated. Lesnar looked strong as fuck in defeat so I'm not THAT bothered, though I would have liked to have seen Lesnar win lol. Match overall isn't that good, really slow and boring outside of the finishing stretch and a couple of moments here and there. SummerSlam match blows it away imo. **3/4.

Match 8 - The Rock Vs John Cena - Twice in a fucking lifetime bullshit for the WWE Title. Zero fucks given by me. Only good thing about this is that they don't have grand entrances and god awful musical performances like last year. God was that terrible. 10 minutes go by... and... wow, fuck all happens, yet they both sell the match like they've had a WAR up to this point. Cena keeps calling spots loud as fuck too lol. Our friendly neighbourhood botchamania guy made sure to put them all in his latest video for anyone interested lol. So yeah, fuck all happens and them BAM. Finishers galore. They just kept hitting them. Again and again and again and again and again. About as "Indy" as a WWE match could be. Pointless nothingness before hitting each other with as many big moves as possible before eventually ending the match lol. ONLY moments that I enjoyed were Rock mocking Cena's mistake from the previous year, and Cena taking the piss by teasing making the same mistake this year, only to stop and look at Rock like he's a fucking moron... only to have it backfire on him and get Rock Bottomed. They burn through a ton of finishers before Cena finally wins and that's that. LOL at them saluting each other at the top of the ramp. Terrible match, managing to be worse than last year. *.



Spoiler: Big Cal's Top 76 WM Matches aka ***+



76..The Brainbusters Vs Strike Force - *** (WM V)
75..The British Bulldogs Vs Brutus Beefcake & Greg Valentine - *** (WM 2)
74..Vader, Owen Hart & The British Bulldog Vs Yokozuna, Jake Roberts & Ahmed Johnson - *** (WM XII)
73..The Big Show Vs John Cena - *** (WM XX)
72..Ted DiBiase Vs Jake Roberts - *** (WM VI)
71..David Sammartino Vs Brutus Beefcake - *** (WM 1)
70..Sgt Slaughter Vs Hulk Hogan - *** (WM VII)
69..Vince McMahon Vs Shane McMahon - *** (WM X7)
68..Christian Vs DDP - *** (WM X8)
67..Kane Vs Randy Orton - *** (WM 28)
66..Chris Jericho Vs Jimmy Snuka, Roddy Piper & Ricky Steamboat - *** (WM 25)
65..Sheamus Vs Triple H - *** (WM 26)
64..Rob Van Dam Vs William Regal - *** (WM X8)
63..Shawn Michaels Vs Vince McMahon - *** (WM 22)
62..Raven Vs The Big Show Vs Kane - *** (WM X7)
61..Finlay Vs John Bradshaw Layfield - *** (WM 24)
60..Hulk Hogan Vs The Rock - *** (WM X8)
59..Faarooq, Savio vega & Crush Vs Ahmed Johnson & The Legion of Doom - *** (WM 13)
58..The Rockers Vs Haku & Barbarian - *** (WM VII)
57..John Morrison Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs CM Punk Vs Mr Kennedy Vs MVP Vs Carlito Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4 (WM 24)
56..Triple H Vs Mick Foley Vs The Rock Vs The Big Show - ***1/4 (WM 2000)
55..Randy Orton Vs John Cena Vs Triple H - ***1/4 (WM 24)
54..CM Punk Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/4 (WM 26)
53..Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/4 (WM X7)
52..The Rockers Vs The Orient Express - ***1/4 (WM VI)
51..Rick Rude Vs Jake Roberts - ***1/4 (WM IV)
50..Ric Flair Vs Randy Savage - ***1/2 (WM VIII)
49..Randy Savage Vs Hulk Hogan - ***1/2 (WM V)
48..Matt Hardy Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/2 (WM XIX)
47..Edge Vs John Cena Vs The Big Show - ***1/2 (WM 25)
46..Vader & Mankind Vs Owen Hart & The British Bulldog - ***1/2 (WM 13)
45..The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ***1/2 (WM X7)
44..Diesel Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2 (WM XI)
43..John Bradshaw Layfield Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2 (WM 22)
42..Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - ***1/2 (WM 22)
41..The Nasty Boys Vs The Hart Foundation - ***1/2 (WM VII)
40..The Big Show Vs Floyd Mayweather - ***1/2 (WM 24)
39..Jeff Hardy Vs Matt Hardy - ***1/2 (WM 25)
38..The Shield Vs Sheamus, The Big Show & Randy Orton - ***1/2 (WM 29)
37..Shawn Michaels Vs Ric Flair - ***1/2 (WM 24)
36..Team Angle Vs Los Guerreros Vs Rhyno & Chris Benoit - ***3/4 (WM XIX)
35..John Cena Vs Triple H - ***3/4 (WM 22)
34..Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ***3/4 (WM VI)
33..Triple H Vs Booker T - ***3/4 (WM XIX)
32..CM Punk Vs Mark Henry Vs MVP Vs Finlay Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Kofi Kingston Vs Christian Vs Kane - ***3/4 (WM 25)
31..Bret Hart Vs Rowdy Roddy Piper - ***3/4 (WM VIII)
30..The Undertaker Vs Diesel - ***3/4 (WM XII)
29..Razor Ramon Vs Shawn Michaels - **** (WM X)
28..Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - **** (WM XIX)
27..The Undertaker Vs Kane - **** (WM XIV)
26..Chris Jericho Vs Christian - **** (WM XX)
25..Cody Rhodes Vs Rey Mysterio - **** (WM 27)
24..The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****1/4 (WM X7)
23..Chris Jericho Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4 (WM XIX)
22..Randy Savage Vs Ricky Steamboat - ****1/4 (WM III)
21..The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ****1/4 (WM 2000)
20..The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4 (WM X8)
19..Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 (WM XX)
18..The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - ****1/4 (WM 29)
17..The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/4 (WM 21)
16..Randy Savage Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ****1/2 (WM VII)
15..The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 (WM X7)
14..Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 22)
13..Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Chris Benoit Vs Kane Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 21)
12..The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 (WM XIX)
11..Mick Foley Vs Edge - ****1/2 (WM 22)

Top 10 will be in my WM Special Video .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, I've been looking at it from the selfish fan point of view, so that mentality hasn't crossed my mind once, sad to say. It's possible. On the fence about it though. There is so much respect for Taker that I do believe it is overwhelming to him to be at the state he's in. Look at his face following the Punk match. He was visibly emotional following it. He loves that moment simply due to the respect shown by his peers, the man he worked with, & the fans. I could see him trying to open up the idea of losing, only for it to be shutdown on the judgment of respect in wanting him _(Undertaker)_ to leave with his perfect record in tact.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

If anyone's gonna break the streak, it should be somebody who'll be around for the next 10-15 years. Granted, Cena probably will be around for the next 10 years but not on top, not on his A-game, he'll be, what, 45 or 46 in 10 years? Exactly. That's why guys like Punk, Cena, Orton etc shouldn't end it because it should be somebody who will be around for a long time, not a guy who's gonna retire in the next few years like Punk possibly, not someone who's already been to the top like Orton/Cena.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think the higher-ups would veto any idea of ending the streak, even if it did come from Taker. As Cody said, due to the respect for him they probably want him to retire with his legacy intact. His Mania legacy, that is.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Daniel Bryan or one of The Shield members, preferably Reigns, I would be happy ending the streak thus giving them a huge rub. I'd rather him retire undefeated though, Creative would probably drop the ball on the one who ends The Streak and eventually reduce them to a status lower than main event, a slap to Taker's legacy, this is. However, If the booking team can get it right, I don't see why anyone would be against it. Seeing as how most of the IWC always blabber on about veterans putting over young/new stars for the sake of the company.


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

The streak should only last one more year at the most. Undertaker's body is already broken down enough and he could have the perfect showdown and end of his career against John Cena at WM30. I love when Undertaker comes around because he still manages to put on great in ring performances but it's time for him to move on and retire. 

Even though I think Punk\Taker was the best match that night. It was a great match because the excellent storytelling by both men but Undertaker physically looked slower than I've ever seen him. He should return for a match for Summerslam and end his career at WM30 remaining in decent shape all year around.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Undertaker looked as crisp as ever at Mania imo. I hope he sticks around and performs at this high level for years to come.

It's probably the most entertaining match and moment of the year in terms of wrestling, Undertaker's match at WrestleMania.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

My top 10 mania matches of all time

1) HBK vs. Taker WM 25 - *****
2) Bret Hart vs. Austin WM 13 - ***** (not the biggest fan of this match but its always going to be in the top 10)
3) Chris Benoit vs. HHH vs. HBK WM 20 - *****
4) Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart WM 10 - *****
5) Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage WM 3 - ****3/4
6) CM Punk vs. Taker WM 29 - ****3/4
7) The Rock vs. Stone Cold WM 17 - ****3/4
8) WM 17 triangle ladder match - ****3/4
9) Triple H vs. Taker WM 28 End of an Era - ****3/4
10) HBK vs. Razor Ramon WM 10 - ****3/4

Thoughts?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

10.Hogan vs Warrior- WM 6
9.Bret Hart vs Owen Hart- WM 10
8.TLC Match- Wm 17
7.Stone Cold vs The Rock- WM 19
6.HBK vs Razor Ramon- WM 10
5.HBK vs Taker- WM 26
4.Savage vs Steamboat- WM 3
3.The Rock vs Stone Cold- WM 17
2.HBK vs Taker- WM 25
1.Stone Cold vs Bret Hart- Wm 13


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Taker looked great at Mania. After all the reports that his body was broken down, and he wasn't sure whether he could perform; I actually thought he looked better than he has done in a few years. It could've been Punk keeping a hot pace, but like Hohenheim said, Taker looked really crisp.

It's funny to think that guys like Orton, Angle, Edge, & Henry were rumored to end the streak. Angle bottomed out to pill addiction and left the company, Orton became a complete liability and stopped caring, Henry continued to be injury-prone and didn't bring much to the table until 2011, Edge started to lost momentum and then retired. Imagine if Brock had broken the streak.... It's such a gamble.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

El Cuñado said:


> Taker looked great at Mania. After all the reports that his body was broken down, and he wasn't sure whether he could perform; I actually thought he looked better than he has done in a few years. It could've been Punk keeping a hot pace, but like Hohenheim said, Taker looked really crisp.


There have been "broken down, retirement" reports on Taker since for over a decade and the man keeps on showing the world that he is one of the best performers in the business. I completely agree with the statements on Undertaker's WrestleMania match is like the greatest thing to look forward to every year. It certainly is for this wrestling fan. I marked out hard, jumping out of my chair during that match. The last few minutes I just had to stand up until the finish. Taker & Punk did what I anticipated they would deliver and it was greatness. 


Also, WWE needs to plan a better match order at Mania because Taker's matches will continue to kill the rest of the card after if they don't have a cool down match in between main events. They ran out of time at WM29 but we really didn't need to see Diddy perform his greatest hits, did we?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker continues to exceed everyones expectations of "Oh, His too old, he can't wrestle and look at his saggy boobs' . His matches should always go on last IMO, It will bring the suspense of the streak ending to new heights.

EDIT: Oh and look at them identical triple sigs, well one's an avatar but still. (Y)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just bought tickets for a Raw House Show next week. THE SHIELD. :mark: Can't wait to see these guys live. NEW AGE OUTLAWS are advertised also along with a Cena/Punk main event. It's already looking miles better than the show I attended in November last year. Decided to splurge on tickets since I didn't go to Mania this year so we're right up at the front. I'm actually looking forward to it.

And the streak should never end imo. It IS the Undertaker at this stage and it's just a sacred thing that shouldn't be messed with. There's absolutely no reason to end it and I'll never be convinced otherwise. It's not always about the younger talent and putting somebody over. After all that he's done, Taker deserves to keep it intact and let his legacy live on through it. If he wants to put somebody over on his way out let him do it at Survivor Series and he can go out the way he came in. But it should never end and I don't want it to. And as big of a Cena mark as I am, I'd be sick if he was the one to do it. Fuck that shit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker's streak should definitely not end. It's amazing just how good he can still be even at his current age. Fuck, Wrestlemania is _sooooo_ gonna suck when he retires. I can't imagine the show without him. He's always in the MOTN every time and has been for years now.

Also ROCK vs Mankind I Quit was discussed a few pages back. Gotta rewatch it now because I need me a dose of how awesome The ROCK used to be compared to this bulky, watered down modern version of him.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

ROCK vs Mankind is the second greatest I Quit match. Cena vs JBL is first.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Got to agree with the Undertaker not losing his streak. But in wrestling, heroic feats need to end to pave the path for the next generation. I am sure the Undertaker will want to give up the streak to help a career. It'll never be accepted by fans though.



Oliver-94 said:


> ROCK vs Mankind is the second greatest I Quit match. Cena vs JBL is first.


Sure.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Should I order that GOAT blu ray set for 15 bucks? :austin


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Meh, Tully vs. Magnum is still the greatest "I Quit" match ever. Kudos to Hayley for suggesting it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Should I order that GOAT blu ray set for 15 bucks? :austin


YES. 

YES YOU SHOULD.

& if we're talking both WWF/WWE and WCW, Rock/Mankind wouldn't make the top five when it comes to 'I Quit" matches because the list should look like this ;

1. Magnum-Tully STRC 
2. Flair-Funk COTC
3. Cena-JBL JD
4. Cena-Orton BP
5. Flair-Foley SS


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> ROCK vs Mankind is the second greatest I Quit match. Cena vs JBL is first.


Agreed. Both matches were intense and brutal. I loved it. 

Speaking of I Quit matches,

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3dwa5_triple-h-vs-the-rock-i-quit-match-w_sport

An underrated gem right here.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

After a brief hiatus for about a week or so due to Wrestlemania, the HHH/Benoit project is back and it's fitting that we return with one of the greatest Mania matches of all time.

*Wrestlemania 20 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (World Heavyweight Championship)*

I'm not going to go into huge detail on this one, as I'm sure everyone knows it very well. A classic match, three superb competitors, a great story told and one of the best feel-good endings to any PPV ever. With a Benoit-heavy crowd, everything he does is cheered for big time. Trapping both men in the Crossface and HBK in the sharpshooter gets huge ovations, as does multiple German suplexes. I always enjoyed Triple H grabbing HBK's hand while Michaels was in the Crossface and stopping him from tapping out. HBK and HHH slam Benoit through the announcers table with a huge double suplex and with Benoit out, go at each other in the ring. HHH hits the Pedigree and it looks like it's over, but Benoit arrives to make the save.

Benoit later gets The Game locked in the sharpshooter too, with HHH sells superbly. HBK comes out of nowhere with a vicious Superkick and all three men are down. HBK tunes up the band, but Benoit knocks him to the outside. HHH lines Benoit up for the Pedigree. I always loved the faces on the crowd at this moment. You can see the fear in their eyes that HHH might retain as he goes for the Pedigree, but Benoit counters superbly into the Crossface. HHH tries to roll through but Benoit holds on, and HHH has no choice but to tap. Benoit's 18 year journey culminates in him winning the World Heavyweight Championship on the grandest stage of them all. Eddie Guerrero joins him in the ring, and although it's somewhat chilling to watch this moment now, it'll still be remembered for what it was at the time - a fantastic feel-good ending for one of the greats in one of the best matches of all time.

*******

*Raw 12th April 2004 - Triple H, Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin*

It's the Raw before Backlash and Evolution are all together to go up against their current rivals. The match begins with HBK and Flair, before Flair begins to get worked over by everyone on Shawn's team, including Benoit who out-Flair's Flair himself with some truly vicious chops. HHH finally gets the tag and he and Benoit work each other over for a while, before the match descends into early chaos. With three of Evolution on the outside, Michaels hits a plancha over the top rope and then there's a cut to a commercial break.

After returning, Benoit is being worked over my Evolution. Batista is tagged in and J.R calls him a "big horse" for some reason. :lol Benoit finally gets back into the match by out-chopping Flair again and makes the tag to Foley. He and Flair go at it and J.R mentions Foley's book and his dislike of Flair. Shelton gets the tag and gets a huge ovation, going after Flair. Triple H gets in, spinebusters Shelton and Evolution regain control. The crowd has been hot throughout the match and Evolution have a good control segment, working on Shelton's ribs with abdominal stretches and simple kicks to the gut. Shelton finally makes the tag and HBK cleans house. He tunes up the band for Orton, but Flair arrives and he gets the kick instead. Orton then hits the RKO but can't make the cover straight away. When he does, Benoit breaks the count by coming off the top rope with the diving headbutt. With mini battles happening on the outside, HBK and Orton both get to their feet and Michaels hits Sweet Chin Music for the win. 

A really entertaining match. The crowd was really into it and it moved at a very quick pace. Evolution played the heels well and were really vicious in their sequences with Shelton, who had disrespected them due to beating HHH twice over the last few weeks. An awesome finishing sequence, which really set up the triple threat rematch and Backlash nicely.

****3/4*



Spoiler: So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's irrelevant said:


> Agreed. Both matches were intense and brutal. I loved it.
> 
> Speaking of I Quit matches,
> 
> ...


 (Y)

Going to watch that match right now. ROCK vs HHH matches are usually great anyway.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Was Evolution vs. Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin the match where they went almost 15 minutes over the show's time?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think so, yeah. Don't have much on tape from 2004 though so don't have the full show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another great write-up, ABH. (Y)

Just got done with Mankind vs ROCK I Quit and it's just an example of how awesome The ROCK really is and why he is so popular with fans. The match is full of brutality but it really gets bad towards the end when ROCK hits Mankind with a bunch of chair shots to the head. Just watching it, you can feel those shots and the worst one is saved for the last as ROCK aims for the back of Foley's head. Also a clever finish. Easy ★★★★½ here. So this is a great 1999 match for those who don't believe!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MoveMent said:


> Was Evolution vs. Chris Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley & Shelton Benjamin the match where they went almost 15 minutes over the show's time?


No, that was the 6-man tag the night after Bad Blood '04. Benoit/Jericho/Edge vs. Orton/Flair/Batista


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Another great write-up, ABH. (Y)
> 
> Just got done with Mankind vs ROCK I Quit and it's just an example of how awesome The ROCK really is and why he is so popular with fans. The match is full of brutality but it really gets bad towards the end when ROCK hits Mankind with a bunch of chair shots to the head. Just watching it, you can feel those shots and the worst one is saved for the last as ROCK aims for the back of Foley's head. Also a clever finish. Easy ★★★★½ here. So this is a great 1999 match for those who don't believe!


Thanks, man.

All this talk of I Quit matches has got me in the mood to watch some of those too. I can't recall that Rock/HHH one from Raw posted earlier so I'll check that one out now.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched the HHH - ROCK match. I'll rate it ***1/2 but for a 11 minutes (around that) TV match, it's a cool match. King's commentary is hilarious btw. "Don't knock him out ROCK, he won't be able to say I Quit" :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Another great write-up, ABH. (Y)
> 
> Just got done with Mankind vs ROCK I Quit and it's just an example of how awesome The ROCK really is and why he is so popular with fans. The match is full of brutality but it really gets bad towards the end when ROCK hits Mankind with a bunch of chair shots to the head. Just watching it, you can feel those shots and the worst one is saved for the last as ROCK aims for the back of Foley's head. *Also a clever finish. Easy ★★★★½ here. So this is a great 1999 match for those who don't believe!*


Choke2Death sippin' on that purple stuff once again 8*D.

Then again, Rock's best singles matches were always against superior workers such as Benoit, Austin, HHH, Foley, & Jericho. As in, those are the guys he had literally ALL of his classics with I do believe, and that's not to say that just because he was in the ring with a better talent it means that he didn't pull his weight ; he was clearly the better guy in matches such as WM XIX w/Austin & IMO NM 01 vs Jericho which is a CLASSIC.

Those Evolution tags in 2004 were fantastic, my favorite time to be a wrestling fan for sure due to Benoit/HHH/HBK/Benjamin/Orton/Flair/etc going out there every week and giving us something to talk about in the ring. I swear there was a legit ****+* match on every single episode of RAW in 2004-2005.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't mean to sound like a fanboy or anything, but anyone else think Undertaker's ABA run as a heel in early 2002 suited the "I Quit" match perfectly. He went around demanding respect, kicking peoples ASSES who didn't respect him and played the Red Devi-Big Evil role perfectly. Extremely surprised he didn't have one in that run, Suited him so much.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^^ I agree and ik he was face in tbe brock fued but that would've been amazing for tbat rivalry I just pray taker would've actually got an win

Also anyone else realize that brock was the only rivalry taker ever lost well besides Austin? Hes **** 400-2 in rivalries lol that's why hes an all time favorite of mine he gets revenge I. This life or the next


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> Assuming the macho man elbow onto the announce table is one of them? Me too. It was definitely match of the night, for several reasons, but yeah, I wish the table broke for that spot. I went "OH!" but then realized.. the table no-sold lol.


That's the main one yeah. Before it happened I thought to myself 'this could be a great false countout finish' but then the table didn't break and it kind of ruined it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Punk was a little sloppy in a couple spots - the Hell's Gate bridge that Shawn did perfectly at WM 26. I think the bridge was supposed to transition into the Anaconda Vice but it ended up a little awkward moment. The GTS into Tombstone near-fall was another one that didn't fully connect but you can argue it is alright since Taker recovered so quickly. Although, It was supposed to be like a "Supernatural Streak Moment." The table spot is neither man's fault, WWE has had many issues with table spots in the last couple of years and Punk looked in legit pain after that one. Taker/Punk is still an epic and the best match of the year at the moment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk fucked his knee up with the table spot. Apparently he was in a lot of pain and couldn't walk around too well on Raw the next night. Won't be surprised if he comes out next week on Raw and says he's taking time off (in some sort of heel way, obviously). PUNK GONNA LOSE HIS SMILE? 

Everyone go watch Regal/Ohno from NXT this week btw. NASTY REGAL as usual. Tremendous stuff. Probably the 3rd best match of the year so far (behind Taker/Punk and Cena/Punk).

EDIT: Forgot about THE SHIELD stuff. Top 5 match then. Not sure where exactly. Maybe behind EC Shield tag and ahead of the Raw Shield tag.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I don't remember the dates for most of these but my Top 10 Matches 2013 so far:

Taker/Punk WM 29
Cena/Punk Raw 2/25
Shield/Cena, Ryback, Sheamus EC
Jericho/Bryan Raw
Jericho/Punk Raw
HHH/Brock WM 29
Del Rio/Ziggler Main Event
Ziggler/Sheamus Main Event
Shield/Jericho, Ryback, Sheamus Raw
Punk/Ryback TLC Raw


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 of the year so far? Hm...

(****1/2)
1) Taker vs. Punk WM29
(****)
2) Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, and Roman Reins vs. Jericho, Ryback, and Sheamus Raw 2/18/2013
(***3/4)
3) Punk vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13
(***1/2)
4) Henry vs. Orton vs. Jericho vs. Bryan vs. Kane vs. Swagger EC 2013 
5) Punk vs. Jericho Raw 2/4/13
6) Jericho vs. Bryan Raw 2/11/13
7) Punk vs. Ryback Raw 1/7/13
8) Ambrose, Rollins, and Reins vs. Cena, Ryback, and Sheamus EC 2013 
9) Ambrose, Rollins, and Reins vs. Orton, Sheamus, and Big Show WM29
(***1/4)
10) Punk vs. Rock EC 2013


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I agree with you on HHH/Lesnar too. Thought it was really good. I can understand why some people didn't like the slow pace but the only real problem I had with it was the dead crowd. A better atmosphere and I'm sure this would be getting a ton more praise. Last few minutes were awesome.


(Y) Knew you'd like it. THAT MAKES THREE OF US.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Regal/Ohono :mark:

Must watch :mark:

Man I love me some NXT. It's like it's produced by an entirely different company.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Choke2Death sippin' on that purple stuff once again 8*D.
> 
> Then again, Rock's best singles matches were always against superior workers such as Benoit, Austin, HHH, Foley, & Jericho. As in, those are the guys he had literally ALL of his classics with I do believe, and that's not to say that just because he was in the ring with a better talent it means that he didn't pull his weight ; he was clearly the better guy in matches such as WM XIX w/Austin & IMO NM 01 vs Jericho which is a CLASSIC.


 True but he still had very good - great matches with a broken down Hogan (WM 18), an injured Austin (WM 19) and a Rookie Lesnar (Summerslam).


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Clique said:


> There have been "broken down, retirement" reports on Taker since for over a decade and the man keeps on showing the world that he is one of the best performers in the business. I completely agree with the statements on Undertaker's WrestleMania match is like the greatest thing to look forward to every year. It certainly is for this wrestling fan. I marked out hard, jumping out of my chair during that match. The last few minutes I just had to stand up until the finish. Taker & Punk did what I anticipated they would deliver and it was greatness.
> 
> 
> Also, WWE needs to plan a better match order at Mania because Taker's matches will continue to kill the rest of the card after if they don't have a cool down match in between main events. They ran out of time at WM29 but we really didn't need to see Diddy perform his greatest hits, did we?


(Y)(Y)(Y)

And i really liked the end when Taker stood in the ring and the fans gave him a standing ovation with Michael Cole saying: "The greatest ever".Such a great moment.










:clap :clap :clap


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Choke2Death sippin' on that purple stuff once again 8*D.
> 
> Then again, Rock's best singles matches were always against superior workers such as Benoit, Austin, HHH, Foley, & Jericho. As in, those are the guys he had literally ALL of his classics with I do believe, and that's not to say that just because he was in the ring with a better talent it means that he didn't pull his weight ; he was clearly the better guy in matches such as WM XIX w/Austin & IMO NM 01 vs Jericho which is a CLASSIC.


lol.

Most of his stuff I've seen during his full-time period have mostly been against good workers and I've liked majority of them. And tbh, we can say that about most wrestlers. Most of the "best matches" for nearly everyone is against a talented worker who's nearly equal at the very least. So I don't see why you keep pointing it out regarding ROCK.

PS, I would've missed this post if it wasn't for Oliver-94 quoting it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Wrestlemania 29 - The Final Verdict

*So I rewatched almost the entire show (Henry/Ryback I did not) and essentially all of my original ratings stayed the same (http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-show-discussion-thread-256.html#post16478890)... EXCEPT ONE.

*Triple H vs. Lesnar* was A LOT better on the 2nd watch. I retract all of my original statements about Brock's offense being repetitive. When you're a monster like he is and you have an amateur wrestling & UFC background, I can understand the amount of suplexes you're gonna use, especially when you only wrestle 2 or 3 times a year. The primal screams throughout the match are FUCKING AWESOME (see sig) & I think both Heyman & Shawn's involvement only made the match more exciting. I really don't have a problem with the kimura spots on the steps anymore, just shows how INSANELY STRONG Brock is and puts him over as a true monster. The only real down part of the match is when Brock locks in the Kimura in the corner & the crowd has no reaction cause it didn't come off well & it kept repeating itself. This time around I really bought into it being an all out war and the crowd wasn't really that bad, they came alive when they needed to. Fantastic encounter that was miles ahead of their Summerslam match, imo. I still think Brock should've won though, have him duck the last sledgehammer shot, hit an F5, sell the punishment on his arm before letting out a primal scream and hitting another F5 (maybe off the steel steps or onto them?) to get the win. Either way I love the match & this now makes 4 OF US! (Cody, TLK, Saint Dick) ******

Rock/Cena is still terrible but I'd bump the overall show score to a 7/10 due to Taker/Punk & BROCK/Trips.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, I GIVE TO YOU....

DAVE MELTZER's STAR RATINGS FOR WRESTLEMANIA 29!



The Shield v Orton,Sheamus and Big Show **1/2

Mark Henry V Ryback 1/2*

Team Hell No V Ziggler and Big E **1/4

Fandango V Jericho ***

Undertaker V CM Punk ****1/2

HHH V Lesnar **1/2

Rock V Lesnar ***1/2


Discuss Dave the GOAT's factual observation of WM.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That Brock/HHH match sound like a Marmite one lol, love it or hate it. I am looking forward to finally watching it soon, I've always been a Lesnar mark so that does help, im sure I'll still be really bothered about Trips winning even more than I was as soon as the rematch was announced.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I still need to rewatch HHH/Lesnar from Mania but I originally had it at ****3/4*. Can definitely see why some people don't like it, but I enjoyed it. Being a HHH mark and a big fan of Lesnar helped I guess.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dave's stars? Moving on...

THE STREAK

01. Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 - *****
02. Vs Shawn Michaels – WrestleMania 25 - *****
03. Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 28 - ****3/4
04. Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 27 - ****3/4
05. Vs Batista – WrestleMania 23 - ****1/2
06. Vs Edge – WrestleMania 24 - ****1/2
07. Vs Randy Orton – WrestleMania 21 - ****1/4
08. Vs CM Punk - WrestleMania 29 - ****1/4
09. Vs Ric Flair - WrestleMania 18 - ****1/4
10. Vs Triple H – WrestleMania 17 - ****1/4
11. Vs Kane – WrestleMania 14 - ****
12. Vs Diesel – WrestleMania 12 - ***3/4
13. Vs Sid – WrestleMania 13 - **3/4
14. Vs The Big Show & A-Train – WrestleMania 19 - **3/4
15. Vs Kane – WrestleMania 20 - **3/4
16. Vs Mark Henry – WrestleMania 22 - **1/2
17. Vs Jake “The Snake” Roberts – WrestleMania 8 - **
18. Vs Jimmy “Superfly” Snuka – WrestleMania 7 - *
19. Vs Giant Gonzalez – WrestleMania 9 - 3/4*
20. Vs King Kong Bundy – WrestleMania 11 - 1/2*
21. Vs Big Boss Man – WrestleMania 15 - DUD


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top 10 Matches this year so far:

*(****1/2)*
Taker vs. Punk WM29
*(****1/4)*
Punk vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13
*(****)*
Henry vs. Orton vs. Jericho vs. Bryan vs. Kane vs. Swagger EC 2013
Shield vs. Team Sell-No EC 2013
*(***3/4)* 
Punk vs. Jericho Raw 2/4/13
Shield vs. Jericho, Ryback, and Sheamus Raw 2/18/13
Punk vs. Ryback Raw 1/7/13
Shield vs. Orton, Sheamus, and Big Show WM29
Sheamus vs. Ziggler Main Event 1/9/13
Ohno vs. Regal NXT 4/11/13


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*William Regal vs Kassius Ohno, NXT (4/11/13)*

Absolutely brilliant match with a great performance by Ohno but an absolute demonstration by Regal that he is still one of the best workers going today when he puts on his boots and steps into the ring. Match is the definition out of working very basic but letting the story and selling of both men add so much more into each exchange and smartly pacing between each transition and into the finish, which is absolutely stellar. Regal smartly decimates Ohno's hand and fingers throughout in such a beautifully violent and sadistic manner and the payoff is wonderful with Ohno later struggling twice to lock on a cravate with his left hand and later Regal being able to transition out of the cravate because Ohno can't control him in the hold. There's also a great close up of Ohno looking in shock at his fingers and trying to pop them back into place in the corner and he sells being continually grounded by Regal and slowly tortured really well. Sadly the brunt of Hero's control segment goes missing in the commercial break, but the setup is great with a stiff baseball slide to Regal's skull & whilst Ohno is relegated mainly to strikes we have Regal amazingly teasing a possible concussion after Ohno kicks him in the head whilst he's against the ringpost out of revenge for Regal's finger manipulation. 

Regal's facial expressions from here on out as well as his body mannerisms just get over Ohno's strikes wonderfully. He nearly collapses the minute he starts to move in a forward motion, struggles to turn his body full circle on the mat as Ohno circles him in motion, has this brilliant almost dead eyed expression after a stiff Ohno boot and there's one inspired bit of selling where Regal tries to move forward before pausing mid motion and nearly tumbling to the mat. In between all of this Regal also busts out a truly wonderful half nelson escape by using his leg for leverage and they really play up how he uses his veteran instincts and ring awareness to keep ahead of Ohno despite Ohno being younger & fitter. Mule kicks in the corner right in Ohno's face as Regal casually chats with the ref about the count was such a subtle but brilliant spot that showcased Regal's intelligence and the final couple of minutes are incredible. Ohno hits this great boot that Regal bumps brilliantly for to the extent you think he's legit concussed before a desperation counter and immediate strike for the win. 



Spoiler: finish



Ohno goes for the rolling elbow but Regal despite staggering catches him plum with a desperation elbow before composing himself long enough to hit the knee trembler and literally collapse aimlessly onto Ohno's prone body and eventually roll him over for the pin.



Amazing match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *William Regal vs Kassius Ohno, NXT (4/11/13)*
> 
> Absolutely brilliant match with a great performance by Ohno but an absolute demonstration by Regal that he is still one of the best workers going today when he puts on his boots and steps into the ring. Match is the definition out of working very basic but letting the story and selling of both men add so much more into each exchange and smartly pacing between each transition and into the finish, which is absolutely stellar. Regal smartly decimates Ohno's hand and fingers throughout in such a beautifully violent and sadistic manner and the payoff is wonderful with Ohno later struggling twice to lock on a cravate with his left hand and later Regal being able to transition out of the cravate because Ohno can't control him in the hold. There's also a great close up of Ohno looking in shock at his fingers and trying to pop them back into place in the corner and he sells being continually grounded by Regal and slowly tortured really well. Sadly the brunt of Hero's control segment goes missing in the commercial break, but the setup is great with a stiff baseball slide to Regal's skull & whilst Ohno is relegated mainly to strikes we have Regal amazingly teasing a possible concussion after Ohno kicks him in the head whilst he's against the ringpost out of revenge for Regal's finger manipulation.
> 
> ...


:mark:

Regal's assault on the fingers was kinda hard to watch in the most awesome way because of how fucking NASTY it was. Regal is like The Undertaker of B Shows. Shows up rarely, but blows everyone else away.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah the closeup of Ohno popping the fingers back into place really put over the work Regal was doing on them. Him actually wrenching back a few times noticeably on the fingers was also tremendous and just something nobody else would think to do. The fact it not only fitted in the story of Regal again becoming sinister and enjoying torturing this young punk but also nullifying Ohno's cravate later in the match was just the icing on the cake. I think I prefer Ambrose/Regal II in terms of the overall storytelling and conclusion of their feud, but if we get a rematch here there's no reason they can't surpass it.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

is there any way to stream NXT for free?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey guys, been on the forum for while just started an account, anyways just re watched punk-taker
and I'm giving it a ****3/4 I LOVE it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> Not much difference between us, except for I prefer Cena vs Edge over Flair vs Foley. _(the false finishes took me out of it)_ DX vs McMahons though. You and I man, we're like the biggest advocates of those matches from '06. Unsure how you feel about the HIAC from Unforgiven, but I love that one too.


I really enjoy the HIAC as well. Got it at ***3/4. But I agree, we seem to be the highest on that series.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, I GIVE TO YOU....
> 
> DAVE MELTZER's STAR RATINGS FOR WRESTLEMANIA 29!
> 
> ...


I'm a bit higher on HHH/Brock and the Shield tag than Big Dave. Lower on Jericho/Fandango. Did he not rate the World Title match?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Wrestlemania 29 - The Final Verdict
> 
> *So I rewatched almost the entire show (Henry/Ryback I did not) and essentially all of my original ratings stayed the same (http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-show-discussion-thread-256.html#post16478890)... EXCEPT ONE.
> 
> ...


Got to throw my hat in, also. Watched it live, first thing I thought, 'damn, a classic'. Came on, and saw some hatred for the match. I can understand it. But, I don't follow it. Had it at **** on the live viewing, yet to rewatch it. Was everything I really wanted it to be, but a tad too slow, and 1-2 poor bits. Was on the edge of the seat, turmoiled over 'no, Lesnar can't lose', 'no, I'd like to see a few more Triple H matches'. Eventually, wanting Lesnar to win took over. Some next morning disappointment followed.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Clique said:


> I'm a bit higher on HHH/Brock and the Shield tag than Big Dave. Lower on Jericho/Fandango. Did he not rate the World Title match?


He rated it **3/4.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That sounds about right too. WM29 wasn't the best show it could have been but I enjoyed for the most part.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Got to throw my hat in, also. Watched it live, first thing I thought, 'damn, a classic'. Came on, and saw some hatred for the match. I can understand it. But, I don't follow it. Had it at **** on the live viewing, yet to rewatch it. Was everything I really wanted it to be, but a tad too slow, and 1-2 poor bits. Was on the edge of the seat, turmoiled over 'no, Lesnar can't lose', 'no, I'd like to see a few more Triple H matches'. Eventually, wanting Lesnar to win took over. Some next morning disappointment followed.


Hahaha. You sound like KingOfKings with your midmatch feelings. Torn between two of the favorites.

But on a better note, THIS MAKES 5 OF US! (assuming you still like it as much on the rewatch  )

I think Cena/Rock was potentially worse on the 2nd viewing. God awful structure on every level.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I thinkg Rock/Cena was an okay match.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Guess I will throw out my WM29 ratings, to see out they compare 

Shield/Super Friends- ***1/2
Henry/Ryback- *
Hell No vs Ziggler/E- **3/4
Jericho/Fandango- **3/4
Del Rio/Swagger- ***1/4
Punk/Taker- ***** :mark:
HHH/Lesnar- ****
Cena/Rock- ***1/4

Pretty good show imo, I seemed to not mind Rock/Cena as much as other people though.

And also, on the note of Kassius Ohno and that glorious prick Regal, fanfuckingtastic, ****


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The full 5 stars for Punk/Taker?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Wrestlemania 29 - The Final Verdict
> 
> *So I rewatched almost the entire show (Henry/Ryback I did not) and essentially all of my original ratings stayed the same (http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-show-discussion-thread-256.html#post16478890)... EXCEPT ONE.
> 
> ...


FAB FOUR?

Yeah, I was pulling for Brock in a massive way, only I knew it had little to no chance of happening. Thankfully I didn't have my heart set on it or else I'd be _really_ letdown every time I see the ending. I dug the match. That's all I wanted this time around considering I wasn't too crazy about the SummerSlam match.



WOOLCOCK said:


> *William Regal vs Kassius Ohno, NXT (4/11/13)*
> 
> Absolutely brilliant match with a great performance by Ohno but an absolute demonstration by Regal that he is still one of the best workers going today when he puts on his boots and steps into the ring. Match is the definition out of working very basic but letting the story and selling of both men add so much more into each exchange and smartly pacing between each transition and into the finish, which is absolutely stellar. Regal smartly decimates Ohno's hand and fingers throughout in such a beautifully violent and sadistic manner and the payoff is wonderful with Ohno later struggling twice to lock on a cravate with his left hand and later Regal being able to transition out of the cravate because Ohno can't control him in the hold. There's also a great close up of Ohno looking in shock at his fingers and trying to pop them back into place in the corner and he sells being continually grounded by Regal and slowly tortured really well. Sadly the brunt of Hero's control segment goes missing in the commercial break, but the setup is great with a stiff baseball slide to Regal's skull & whilst Ohno is relegated mainly to strikes we have Regal amazingly teasing a possible concussion after Ohno kicks him in the head whilst he's against the ringpost out of revenge for Regal's finger manipulation.
> 
> ...


:mark: :mark: :mark:

I'm dying to view NXT this week thanks to this.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just realised I haven't thrown my stars for WM 29. Rewatched today:

Shield/Show&Orton&Sheamus- ***1/4
Ryback/Henry-*3/4
Bryan&Kane/Ziggler&Big.E- **1/2
Jericho/Fandango- **3/4
ADR/Swagger- ***1/2
Punk/Taker- ****1/2
HHH/Brock- ***3/4
Cena/Rock-***


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> I'm dying to view NXT this week thanks to this.


I hear that there is a rather elite place with a link to that particular match on dailymotion, complete with video package and interviews from the show too.

Quick question: does anyone who liked the Lesnar/HHH SS match ALSO like the WM match? Seems the reviews I read on it all mention something like "not as good as SS" or "way better than SS" or something lol .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> I'm dying to view NXT this week thanks to this.


I anticipate your thoughts which I'm sure will be along the same lines  . It makes me yearn for a short term Regal run on TV working some of the undercard guys in desperate need of some exposure by the company. Christ if they insist on relegating Cesaro to doing absolutely nothing you'd think they could at least give us some very good matches between he & Regal at the very least.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nah, KingOfKings is the reverse order. He has the SSlam match at **** 1/2 and thinks it's legit one of the best of all time and gave the WM match *** 1/4. I'm the opposite with Mania at **** and SSlam at ***. Seen both twice. I've actually not seen anyone who genuinely enjoys both yet.

FAB FOUR... or FIVE!?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll have HHH/Lesnar from Mania above their SS match for sure.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Turns out I have Lesnar/HHH WM at ***1/2, I had the **** rating fresh on my mind from Regal/Ohno . I think the SS match is much better, ****1/2 from me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> I hear that there is a rather elite place with a link to that particular match on dailymotion, complete with video package and interviews from the show too.
> 
> Quick question: does anyone who liked the Lesnar/HHH SS match ALSO like the WM match? Seems the reviews I read on it all mention something like "not as good as SS" or "way better than SS" or something lol .


O rly? :hayley3

I know right? Unsure if there is anyone. Maybe TLK.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I anticipate your thoughts which I'm sure will be along the same lines  . It makes me yearn for a short term Regal run on TV working some of the undercard guys in desperate need of some exposure by the company. Christ if they insist on relegating Cesaro to doing absolutely nothing you'd think they could at least give us some very good matches between he & Regal at the very least.


I'll be VERY surprised if I don't love this match. Flat out. Hero vs a slew of indie kids has gotten a rise out of me. Working with Regal should be nothing short of brilliant.

Cesaro. *sigh* I mini-ranted elsewhere with his direction. I'll let that stand there. Only I have zero clue with what WWE will do with him now. He was so well protected not long ago. (N)



Jack Evans 187 said:


> FAB FOUR... or FIVE!?


FIVE? Well, I missed one it seems.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@Cal: I enjoyed both the Summerslam and WM BROCK/Trips matches.

edit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> @Cal: I enjoyed both the Summerslam and WM BROCK/Trips matches.
> 
> edit


Always gotta be ONE, hasn't there? 

What about your parents?


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Shield/Show&Orton&Sheamus- ***1/4
Ryback/Henry- *1/2
Bryan&Kane/Ziggler&Big.E- **1/2
Jericho/Fandango- ***
ADR/Swagger- ***
Punk/Taker- ***** (Full 5 stars) Loved this match
HHH/Brock- ****
Cena/Rock- *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated aka Jim Crockett Promotions guy enjoyed Lesnar/Trips as well. That's the possibility of five.

BEARS


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Always gotta be ONE, hasn't there?
> 
> What about your parents?


I think there's something wrong with me.

They liked both, too, but that could be solely for the fact that HUNTER was involved. I blame heredity.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trips/Lesnar from RAZZLE-DAZZLE-MANIA is a good match, it's just not the standard of match that I was hoping for. FUCK THAT ENDING as well. Rock-Cena can go suck a dick as far as I'm concerned, one of the worst Wrestlemania main events ever (HHH-Orton was better FFS). Punk-Taker everybody knows is the universal MOTN and an all time classic match, while THE SHIELD went out there and IMO had a near four star match to open the show, the second best Mania opener ever from where I sit. Hell, I might even give THE SHIELD match four stars on a rewatch, I just adore what those guys bring to the table in terms of TEAM vs INDIVIDUALS, you really get the sense that they're one singular, unstoppable unit.

:lol @ Meltzer's ratings too, Brett Mix would have came up with better ratings then that.

Still though, HHH proves once again why he is the most polarizing in-ring performer perhaps EVER, with matches such as NWO 01, Summerslam 2002, Wrestlemania XXVII, etc......... I enjoyed BROCK-TRIPS, it just wasn't worthy of being a Wrestlemania main event to me (only Punk-Taker gets that distinction). Now, keep The Rock away from the WWE so that we can have BROCK-TAKER W/ HHH as referee and Cena-Punk for the WWE Championship headlining Mania PLZ.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I have to agree with KOK on HHH/Orton being better than Rock/Cena II. Fuck that match. I still have to rewatch Mania but I'm not looking forward to experiencing that again.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

what were meltzer's ratings for mania?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'd take Rock/Cena over Orton/HHH too btw. At least the former had some good callback spots to the previous match. Orton/HHH was the definition of an underwhelming main event if there ever was one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H vs Orton & Cena vs Rock II can both go away forever. Crap matches and the only way one can be chosen over the other is purely out of "lesser of two evils" mentality.

Cena was kind of the man with his antics/callbacks though. I will say that. b/c it can't go unnoticed.


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

HWRP said:


> what were meltzer's ratings for mania?


Can someone please post? I would love to know his ratings as well.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Triple H vs Orton & Cena vs Rock II can both go away forever. Crap matches and the only way one can be chosen over the other is purely out of "lesser of two evils" mentality.
> 
> Cena was kind of the man with his antics/callbacks though. I will say that. b/c it can't go unnoticed.


Yup, Cena's mannerisms in that match is the only thing that stops me giving it a DUD really. I have it at *** right now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

vk79 said:


> Can someone please post? I would love to know his ratings as well.


They were just posted a page or two ago. Just look back.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yup, Cena's mannerisms in that match is the only thing that stops me giving it a DUD really. I have it at *** right now.


My exact sentiments. He worked total heel.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I liked Cena/Rock II. The second half at least.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I have Triple H/Orton at **1/2 and Cena/Rock 2 at ***. I was actually enjoying Rock/Cena until Cena kicked out of so many finishers it became laughable.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rock/Cena > HHH/Orton for me as well.

And the Melzter ratings were posted a couple pages ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yup, Cena's mannerisms in that match is the only thing that stops me giving it a DUD really. I have it at *** right now.


Same here. Outside of a no pace whatsoever, all of the visible calling of spots was AHHHHHH level frustrating. They didn't even try to hide it. I heard Cena call spots a few times too. Then he goes out and pulls off some awesome trolling jobs later in the match. Oh, John-boy. How you can be terrible & awesome in one match is truly a mystery.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Meltzer's ratings were horrible. 

The Shield match a star less than Rock/Cena? The Shield match a half of a star less than Jericho/Fandango?

The FUCK?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> I have Triple H/Orton at **1/2 and Cena/Rock 2 at ***. I was actually enjoying Rock/Cena until Cena kicked out of so many finishers it became laughable.


I rate them exactly the same.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> I have Triple H/Orton at **1/2 and Cena/Rock 2 at ***. I was actually enjoying Rock/Cena until Cena kicked out of so many finishers it became laughable.


Yea the false finishers and rest holds early in the match killed it but I still enjoyed it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM Main Events:

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - WM 26
The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/2 - WM 24
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 - WM 17
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 - WM 20
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - **** - WM 19
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels - **** - WM 23
Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ***3/4 - WM 6
John Cena Vs Triple H - ***3/4 - WM 22
Randy Savage Vs Hulk Hogan - ***1/2 - WM 5
Triple H Vs Mick Foley Vs The Rock Vs The Big Show - ***1/4 - WM 16
Sgt Slaughter Vs Hulk Hogan - *** - WM 7
Sid Vs The Undertaker - **3/4 - WM 13
Shawn Michaels Vs Steve Austin - **3/4 - WM 14
Triple H Vs Batista - **1/2 - WM 21
Bret Hart Vs Yokozuna - **1/2 - WM 9 (not counting Hogan/Yoko)
Bam Bam Bigelow Vs Laurence Taylor - **1/4 - WM 11
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - **1/4 - WM 15
John Cena Vs The Rock - **1/4 - WM 28
Hulk Hogan & Mr T Vs Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff - ** - WM 1
Yokozuna Vs Bret Hart - ** - WM 10
Hulk Hogan Vs Sid Justice - ** - WM 8
Hulk Hogan Vs King Kong Bundy - ** - WM 2
Chris Jericho Vs Triple H - ** - WM 18
Bret Hart Vs Shawn Michaels - *1/2 - WM 12
The Rock Vs John Cena - * - WM 29
Triple H Vs Randy Orton - * - WM 25
Ted DiBiase Vs Randy Savage - * WM 4
Hulk Hogan Vs Andre The Giant - 1/4* - WM 3
The Miz Vs John Cena - 1/4* WM 27

29 WM's, and only 11 of them reached *** or above for me. Christ we have had some terrible main events lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ha, I made that comment on Sunday. Most of the WM main events have been rather poor. After seeing your list Cal, I think I have less than 11 in the ***+ range.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WM Main Events (KOK) :

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - WM 26
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ***** - WM 20
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels - **** 3/4 - WM 23
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 - WM 17
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - **** 1/4 - WM 19
John Cena Vs Triple H - **** 1/4 - WM 22
The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/4 - WM 24
Randy Savage Vs Hulk Hogan - **** - WM 5
Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ***3/4 - WM 6
Triple H Vs Mick Foley Vs The Rock Vs The Big Show - *** 3/4 - WM 16
Shawn Michaels Vs Steve Austin - *** 1/2 - WM 14
Triple H Vs Batista - *** - WM 21
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - *** - WM 15
Chris Jericho Vs Triple H - *** - WM 18
Sgt Slaughter Vs Hulk Hogan - ** 3/4 - WM 7
Bret Hart Vs Shawn Michaels - ** 3/4 - WM 12
Bret Hart Vs Yokozuna - **1/2 - WM 9 (not counting Hogan/Yoko)
John Cena Vs The Rock - **1/4 - WM 28
Hulk Hogan & Mr T Vs Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff - ** - WM 1
Yokozuna Vs Bret Hart - ** - WM 10
Hulk Hogan Vs King Kong Bundy - ** - WM 2
Ted DiBiase Vs Randy Savage - ** WM 4
Bam Bam Bigelow Vs Laurence Taylor - ** - WM 11
Sid Vs The Undertaker - * 3/4 - WM 13
Hulk Hogan Vs Sid Justice - * 1/2 - WM 8
Triple H Vs Randy Orton - * - WM 25
The Rock Vs John Cena - * - WM 29
Hulk Hogan Vs Andre The Giant - 1/4* - WM 3
The Miz Vs John Cena - 1/4* WM 27

Rock/Cena joins the UNHOLY Four Mania Main events @ One star or lower.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

I didn't really have a problem with Mania. Well, other than the fact that it was painfully predictable in almost every way possible, and the 3 main events went back to back to back to end the show. And let me say that I was pretty zooted when I watched Mania.

Punk v. Taker, nothing really more probably needs to be said. Should've got 5 more minutes.

HHH v. Lesnar- Kind of dragged... I get that every Brock match he's does the Kimura for 15 minutes, but it was just too much. Gassed from Punk-Taker. Thought this match should have happened much earlier in the show.

I liked Rock v. Cena. There were far too many finishers and shit at the end, but whatever. Thought they worked well together. Nice looking sharp-shooter. Cena really made the match with his mannerisms and what not. Really wanted the heel term, of course I didn't expect it. Cheesy way to go off the air. 

By the way, when was the P Diddy performance announced? And why wasn't that in the end?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Meltzer's ratings were horrible.
> 
> The Shield match a star less than Rock/Cena? The Shield match a half of a star less than Jericho/Fandango?
> 
> The FUCK?


Yeah not so sure what he was watching.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WrestleMania main events ******+


Hulk Hogan vs Randy Savage ~ ****** - WM V

Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior ~ ****** - WM VI

Hulk Hogan vs Sgt. Slaughter ~ ****1/2* - WM VII

Steve Austin vs Shawn Michaels ~ ***** - WM XIV

Steve Austin vs The Rock ~ ****1/2* - WM XVII

Chris Jericho vs Triple H ~ **** *- WM XVIII

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle ~ ****1/2* - WM XIX

Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels ~ ******* - WM XX

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels ~ ****** - WM XXIII

The Undertaker vs Edge ~ *****1/4* - WM XXIV

The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels ~ *****3/4* - WM XXVI


So I did make it to eleven. Didn't think I would. Austin vs Michaels could be higher than I have it at if I take the time to watch it anytime soon. I know I like it regardless.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Now that The Rock has gotten injuries in his last two matches with Cena, and if WWE still wanna go for Brock/Rock, I can just imagine Rocky hanging with Brock :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did you leave a star off of the X7 main event, Cody? haha


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I would be just as worried about Brock hurting himself in a match with Rock too. Lesnar/Taker would be a war as well but I've heard people with concerns of Taker's health in a match with him. I personally think Taker is smart enough to guide Lesnar in the match and set the pace so they don't do anything too crazy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, surprised @ Cody's ratings for 17 and 19.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You gotta point Clique, esp with Brock's "Do I look like I give a fuck" attitude


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Triple H vs Orton & Cena vs Rock II can both go away forever. Crap matches and the only way one can be chosen over the other is purely out of "lesser of two evils" mentality.


But I LIKED the match :$

Whatever man, you weren't there, you don't know!!!


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Looking at the last few pages...I'm at a loss to how anybody can give Punk/Taker more than ****1/4. I can't even contemplate the thought of Lesnar/Trips being ****.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are peeps thoughts on the Brock/Taker series. I can't remember much about the No Mercy or the Unforgiven match (apart from the finish).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I watched Punk/Taker again last night and I'm not sure if I'm as high on it as I was when I watched Mania live. The drama was a bit less as to be expected given I knew the outcome (even moreso than I did before the match actually took place), but it was still really good. Definitely a notch below his last 4 Mania matches, though, imo.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

zep81 said:


> What are peeps thoughts on the Brock/Taker series. I can't remember much about the No Mercy or the Unforgiven match (apart from the finish).


- Unforgiven 2002 ****1/2
- HIAC ***1/2
- Biker Chain Match *


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I watched Punk/Taker again last night and I'm not sure if I'm as high on it as I was when I watched Mania live. The drama was a bit less as to be expected given I knew the outcome (even moreso than I did before the match actually took place), but it was still really good. Definitely a notch below his last 4 Mania matches, though, imo.


The only (kayfabe) believable spot of Punk winning was when he used the urn imo. But as far as match execution they couldn't of done much better outside of Punk messing up the bridge.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*WRESTLEMANIA 29*

Bit surprised they opened the show with *Sheamus, Orton and Show v The Shield* but it was a good choice. This was some way off their previous two PPV matches, and not as good as their Raw 6 man either, but it was still very good. The Shield's teamwork and cohesion as a unit continues to be the high point of their matches and at this stage I think they could deliver a worthwhile match with any decent opponents. The Show/Ambrose exchange was a ton of a fun. Show being the one to get isolated made The Shield look good. Finishing stretch was good and the lack of teamwork costing the babyfaces the match was a smart way to go. Strong opener.

I said before the event that *Ryback/Henry* had the potential to be an enjoyable big man match and it started off that way with both guys clobbering each other. They should've continued in that vein, battering each other back and forth. Unfortunately Henry started doing bear hugs and it went to shit. The finish wasn't good either.

*Tag title match* was short and sweet. Not much else to say about it. The callback tease of Bryan's loss at last year's Mania was brilliant and the crowd ate it up too.

*Jericho v Fandango* was okay. Jericho did basically all the work and carried Fandango to a passable Wrestlemania debut. Couldn't bring myself to care too much about the match but it was alright. The nearfall off Fandango's leg drop had me going.

I liked *Del Rio v Swagger* quite a bit. Wasn't great or anything but I wasn't expecting too much going into it so I was happy with what they put together. Dug the armbreaker v ankle lock element. The finish was kind of abrupt but whatever, I'd call it a good match. It's safe to say I'm a fan of Del Rio's ring work these days.

*Punk/Taker* was the MOTN by miles. No question about it. I gotta be honest, I had my doubts about this match. Wasn't sure what sort of shape Taker was in and didn't think they could really make Punk seem like a credible threat compared to HHH and HBK at the last 4 Manias. Well, they proved my doubts wrong and then some. Taker looked fantastic, and Punk's excellent character work and Heyman's manager of the year performance created real drama. So much to like about this match. The one low point for me was the table not breaking off Punk's elbow drop because that would've been a super spot and a great false countout but that didn't hold them back from having a spectacular match. Epic stuff.

I can see why *HHH/Lesnar* is getting divided reviews and a bunch of negative ones. It was slow and the crowd was eerily quiet during parts of it. I liked it though. The slow pace didn't bother me at all. A hotter crowd would've made it a whole lot better but there was a lot of good stuff in there. Brock was a monster. Those primal screams :mark: Also the suplexes on the outside and through the table. (Y) F-5 to Michaels was great, SCM to Heyman was great, and the finishing stretch was awesome. The finish itself was really good. Sledgehammer followed by Pedigree onto the steps = SLAYING THE BEAST. Wouldn't call it a GREAT match, it certainly had its drawbacks, but to me the main one was the lack of crowd involvement. They certainly did enough for me to happily call it good.

*Cena/Rock*... I don't know man. I had some fun with this but it wasn't good. I enjoyed parts of the finisherfest, especially Cena's callback to the elbow drop the year before. Cena hitting the Rock Bottom was cool too. Match was shit before they started hitting finishers though, and even when they did start hitting finishers it's not like it was anything amazing. It served its purpose as a big time spectacle to close the show but as a match it was below average.

MOTY list:

1. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
2. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
3. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
4. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
5. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
6. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
7. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
8. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Great review, Ownage. I agree, that finishing bit of HHH/Lesnar was great. Lesnar really took a lot of (kayfabe) punishment before he was finally pinned. Nobody kicks out of a sledgehammer shot, let alone breaking a kimura 3 times, a DDT on steel steps, then finally a Pedigree on the steps. Awesome.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Great review, Ownage. I agree, that finishing bit of HHH/Lesnar was great. Lesnar really took a lot of (kayfabe) punishment before he was finally pinned. Nobody kicks out of a sledgehammer shot, let alone breaking a kimura 3 times, a DDT on steel steps, then finally a Pedigree on the steps. Awesome.


Yeah, the last few minutes were crazy. The crowd was pretty dead the whole time but they lost their shit every time Hunter reapplied the kimura and then when he got pumped up after the sledgehammer shot.

Bump Brock took off the barricade early in the match was wicked.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haribo said:


> Looking at the last few pages...I'm at a loss to how anybody can give Punk/Taker more than ****1/4. I can't even contemplate the thought of Lesnar/Trips being ****.


I agree with you when it comes to hunter/lesnar.I first had it at **** then on the rewatch went way down to ***. Punk/Taker on the other hand when up from **** 1/2 to 3/4. A little longer of a match and I might give it the full 5


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah, the last few minutes were crazy. The crowd was pretty dead the whole time but they lost their shit every time Hunter reapplied the kimura and then when he got pumped up after the sledgehammer shot.
> 
> Bump Brock took off the barricade early in the match was wicked.


Brock's recklessness is my favorite part of his current run. Guy has no regard for his (or anyone else's) well-being. I know people complain about him losing that match, but to be honest it didn't feel like the right time for Hunter to hang it up, and it's not like Brock looks weak from it. Had he not lost to Cena upon his first match back, I don't think this loss would sting so much. It's the fact that he is now 1-2 that kinda sucks, but it took more for him to go down this time than it has any other heel in recent memory.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

how would everyone rank taker's last 5 wm matches
1)26
2)25
3)28
4)29
5)27


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

25/26 (tie)
28
27
29

imo


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Brock's recklessness is my favorite part of his current run. Guy has no regard for his (or anyone else's) well-being. I know people complain about him losing that match, but to be honest it didn't feel like the right time for Hunter to hang it up, and it's not like Brock looks weak from it. Had he not lost to Cena upon his first match back, I don't think this loss would sting so much. It's the fact that he is now 1-2 that kinda sucks, but it took more for him to go down this time than it has any other heel in recent memory.


Brock has instant credibility anyway.

And even before the kimura, DDT onto steel steps, sledgehammer shot and Pedigree onto steps, HHH used a blatant low blow to get back into it. Plus Trips had Michaels in his corner.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, all he has to do is show up and people shit their pants, so I know I won't have a hard time investing myself in his next program.

Forgot about the low blow. Lesnar knocking the fuck out of Michaels for his troubles was classic. SCM to Heyman was great, too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just finished *Ohno vs. Regal*. Gotta say, it was quite a good match but it's not gonna be for everyone. Nothing fancy to it whatsoever, just stiff strikes & breaking of fingers.  Psychology was top notch as the work on Hero's hand lead him to not be able to lock in his submission finisher. Regal's selling of all the blows to the head were fantastic & OH MY GOD at Hero putting his fingers back into place. Nasty stuff. Wasn't the biggest fan of the finish but both men put on a good performance. Probably chuck **** 3/4 *at it. Not quite MOTYC level.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Gonna watch that when I get home. Sounds great from the review WOOLCOCK put forth.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Speaking of Michaels at 'mania, can the current use of him as HHH's little wuss friend stop, please?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sidekick HBK > no HBK for me so I guess I'll take what I can get.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

as long as the icon, main event, show stoppa, mr wrestlemania, heartbreak kid is on my tv i'm good with it


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I hope HHH and Taker stick around for a bit post-Mania. Would like to see them work a few PPV programs with the new kids on the block.

Good riddance to Rock though. What a stinky run he had.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I'm all for seeing more HHH and Taker. As excited I was for Rock's Rumble return, it kinda flopped for me. It served the purpose of making Vince money and putting Cena over but meh.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I agree with you Saint, this is the sort of time they need these big stars to start to put over the newer talent. These two aren't getting any younger and are likely to retire at WM30. Taker doesn't have to lose one on one but the 6 man tag match with The Shield that has been spoken about would go a long way for the three men.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker working with SH-SH-SHEAMUS and Bryan will be :mark: worthy.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'd love to see Taker/Sheamus, ngl.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> I agree with you Saint, this is the sort of time they need these big stars to start to put over the newer talent. These two aren't getting any younger and are likely to retire at WM30. Taker doesn't have to lose one on one but the 6 man tag match with The Shield that has been spoken about would go a long way for the three men.


Yeah exactly. And what's the point of Hunter winning a career threatening match if he's only gonna have one more match in a year's time at WM30?

HHH, Taker and Hell No v SHIELD and Punk could be an excellent main attraction at a PPV with Cena defending against Henry or Ryback.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Shawn Michaels can go away, I wanted to see Steph in HHH's corner.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Sheamus would be awesome.

And I was thinking possibly at Summerslam/Survivor Series/RR (whenever Cena would've lost the title by) it could be Taker/Cena/HHH vs. The Shield. Shield could be put over immensely by beating that team and taken to a whole nother level, and even just an amazing showing would do much for them. Maybe if an elimination match they eliminate Taker and HHH... which of course lead Cena to make his super-comeback win, but I could live with that with what The Shield could gain for taking the two legends out.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> Shawn Michaels can go away, I wanted to see Steph in HHH's corner.


Meh, a super kick to Heyman > a weak slap to Heyman from Steph.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*The Undertaker Vs CM Punk (07/04/2013 WWE)*
★★★★ 1/2+


> And during the few moments that we have left, we want to talk right down to earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand​


The opening line to Living Colour's "Cult of Personality" echoes true a metaphor for the majestic spectacle that stole the show in Metlife Stadium. Two wrestling gods graced our presence with a match that solidifies exactly why we all love professional wrestling. The message, itself, was simple. This match would be an affirmation for Punk; he believes he is the best in the world and this match, he anticipated, would prove it. Contrary to opinion, the greatest accolade in sports today isn't The Streak, it's a so far unattained one - beating the streak. It would be that victory that would cement Punk as the greatest to have ever lived. 

I loved Punk roaring as 'Taker's music hits. This is a level of determination he hasn't shown before - not even in his match against Cena for the main event spot at Wrestlemania - a dream he has oft shared as his greatest goal within wrestling. Yet cracks within his bravado showed early on that a good portion of it to likely be a facade, akin to make-up covering the blemish of reality in that deep down he knew how unattainable a win would be. Coupled to this, in terms of 'Taker's deficiencies, was The Deadman's age and his ever increasing ring-rust. Wrestling only once a year had seemingly taken a toll on Undertaker, going for his signature move in Old-School he hesitated and seemingly felt out of control of his own balance. It was a sight that conflicts with the Undertaker you know you'd see at Wrestlemania. These moments, though, would be the material needed for Punk to stitch together the holes in his confidence yet, ironically, too, offer moments, such as the failure to secure a second Old School, in which his cockiness would over-ride his logic at the detriment of maintaining control. For what it is worth, I thought Heyman played the perfect managerial role, adding guidance to Punk's offence and insight into what his own eyes couldn't see. Going so far as to even sacrifice himself, it would seem yet another factor lured the possibility of victory away from 'Taker.

Punk botching his GTS was almost imperative to creating belief in 'Taker coming back with his tombstone, something that would otherwise be blatant in its no-selling. It was a pity, though, that commentary would bring up Punk missing only for production to offer a view from behind Punk forcing them to legitimise its impact. The tombstone made for an immeasurably spectacular nearfall, however, as did Punk's shot with the urn - a nearfall that was symbolic in its irony. The very entity that gave power to 'Taker almost took it all from him. If I was to honestly fault anything within this match, it would only be two, albeit minor, instances. The first was my disbelief in Punk's savate high kick being damaging enough to incapacitate The Deadman for as long as it took to hit the elbow. Secondly, and to a lesser extent, as the botched transition from Hell's Gate to a pin by Punk. Not only had Punk suffered a legitimate injury from his dive to the announce table, but he played it off in the match, too. Punk kicked off with only his left foot, struggling, at first, to generate enough power to flip his exhausted body only to nail it a second time as he visibly fights through the pain.

It's here that the match returns full-circle to the lyrics. Just as the song ends with the quote "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" so, too, does the match's narrative. While the rest of us saw the death of 'Taker's closest friend and the mindgames of Punk as the biggest threat, yet, to his streak, our fears were solely ours. For fear is The Phenom's own power to control and inflict on his opponents. Punk's surity in winning was truly with merit, even within the final minutes, but he fell just as so many have done before. He may be the best in the world, but there is no better in the devil's playground than 'Taker.







​


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Takers mania matches
1 wm25 *****
2 wm26 *****
3wm28 ****
4 wm 27 ***3/4
5wm29 ***3/4

Good match with punk but it never even seemed like he had a chance ik takee will always win but at least suspend my belief they sshould have booked punk stronger and gave them more time. Booking left me disappointed although it wss a solid match


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

LOL right. Had enough of people rating punk/taker at lower than 4 stars, match was a fucking gem and a wrestlemania classic. The counters, sequences, brilliant pacing, facial expressions, spots and wrestling were all on point. ****3/4 match and still debating whether or not to give it the full 5. Amazing match, people need to stop hatin

Edit: great review rah, loved reading it !


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> LOL right. Had enough of people rating punk/taker at lower than 4 stars, match was a fucking gem and a wrestlemania classic. The counters, sequences, brilliant pacing, facial expressions, spots and wrestling were all on point. ****3/4 match and still debating whether or not to give it the full 5. Amazing match, people need to stop hatin


couldn't agree more I think if it was a littler longer its a 5


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think punk got the most out of taker since the GOAT did (hbk)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Excellent review Rah. Same rating as you.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nice review of Punk/Taker. I've watched it about 4 times now and it remains at ****1/2. The facial expressions helped make the match, especially when Taker sat up while he was in the Anaconda Vice and their eyes locked. Great moment there. Punk's demented looking throat slit, and his Taker-mocking pin were also GOAT-worthy expressions.

I'm probably biased because I'm such a fan of Lesnar and Triple H, but I really did like their match. Definitely liked it better than Summerslam. Brock's fall of the barricade early on looked nasty as it looked like he fell on the back of his head (similar to how Mania 19 when he botched the SSP). Those suplexes on the outside by Lesnar were pretty sick, and were among the few moments that actually garnered a reaction from the otherwise quiet crowd. BUT FUCKING MICHAEL COLE KEPT CALLING THEM "THROWS". That match is about ***1/4 for me. Not the best thing ever, but a nice brawl. Lesnar's screams also gained at least 1/2*.

Rock/Cena is whatever. The only thing I really liked was Cena teasing the same People's Elbow like last year. Troll Cena at his best.

Paul Heyman deserves at least a nod for performer of the night. Between Lesnar and Punk's matches/entrances, Heyman spent over an hour in front of the crowd, and he rarely took a break from doing his job. He nearly took a chokeslam from Taker, then took a superkick from HBK later.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Would be awesome if someone could do a top 50 or 100 greatest matches of all time list. Probably been done before but would still be really interesting to see people's varying opinion's on what they think are the GOAT matches.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^I'd do one but it'd be incomplete/inaccurate because there are a lot of matches I haven't watched


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

anybody know some good Jericho tv matches ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> anybody know some good Jericho tv matches ?


vs. CM Punk (_RAW 2/4/13_)
w/ Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield (_RAW 2/18/13_)
w/ Big Show vs. DX (_RAW 10/5/09_)
vs. Kofi Kingston (_RAW 10/26/09_)
vs. Sheamus (_Smackdown 3/16/12_)

Just a bunch random ones, tbh. But they're all quality matches. (waits for someone to comment on the Kofi inclusion :side


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some good Jericho TV matches that came to mind instantly:

vs Christian (Steel Cage) - Raw 04
vs Orton - Raw 5/7/04
vs Benoit - Raw 7/2/05
vs Cena - 21/8/05


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thanks man that kofi match sounds good


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Some good Jericho TV matches that came to mind instantly:
> 
> vs Christian (Steel Cage) - Raw 04
> vs Orton - Raw 5/7/04
> ...


that benoit one :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Y2J also had a great match with the ROCK back in 2001 for the world title. 





 




Not to mention his match with Sheamus last year on SD! is quite good.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

How would you guys rank the HHH/Taker trilogy at mania? 

My rankings:

1) Triple H vs. The Undertaker Wrestlemania 28: End of an era - ****3/4
2) Triple H vs. The Undertaker Wrestlemania 17 - ****1/4
3) Triple H vs. The Undertaker Wrestlemania 27 No Holds Barred - ***3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/Taker 28 *****( the storytelling and :hbk
hhh/taker 27 **** 3/4

havent seen 17 fully


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Yeh gotta admit the storytelling and emotion in that match was just off the charts and shawn played his role perfectly. 

Just realised I haven't seen punk/cena from Mitb in ages. Had it at ****1/4 on my last watch, was a good match but bit sloppy at times. Find it to be a tad bit over-rated


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The crowd certainly make the MITB match. But that just shows you how much crowd involvement is crucial to not just a good match but a good show overall, which is a bit like Raw the past week, the show itself wasn't the best but the crowd made is so much better, it's why I see Attitude Era as being as good as it was, because at times the wrestling wasn't the best, storylines were straight up fuckery, but the crowds involvement and the awesome commentary made it pretty fucking awesome.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Taker

WM 28 ****1/2
WM 27 ****
WM 17 ***1/2


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

On Raw in I believe Aug of 2010 Jericho/Edge/Orton had a really good triple threat match.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*Triple H vs. The Undertaker:*

*Wrestlemania 28:*
****

*Wrestlemania 17:*
***1/2

*Wrestlemania 27:*
***3/4


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> The crowd certainly make the MITB match. But that just shows you how much crowd involvement is crucial to not just a good match but a good show overall, which is a bit like Raw the past week, the show itself wasn't the best but the crowd made is so much better, it's why I see Attitude Era as being as good as it was, because at times the wrestling wasn't the best, storylines were straight up fuckery, but the crowds involvement and the awesome commentary made it pretty fucking awesome.


100% agree with you. A dead crowd and shitty commentary can really make or break a match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love mitb and have it at a ***** since the last time I watch it because of the crowd and all the things going on. however from a wresting standpoint I honestly think NOC=MITB


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I haven't seen MITB since it aired but I definitely have it at *****

Cena/Punk series are the matches that defined the PG era.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

I fucking loved their match at NOC, honestly prefer it to MiTB


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I have Cena/Punk MITB at ****1/2. I haven't seen it in a while though.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I also have it at ****1/2.

I just think it's a bit too sloppy to be a perfect *****. The crowd is awesome though, I remember watching it live and just getting goosebumps through out the whole night, from Daniel Bryan winning Money in the Bank all the way to the crowd reaction when Punk come out, the crowd reaction when Cena come out, the disappointment when the crowd thought Vince was going to screw Punk, the moment we all felt del Rio might cash in just to troll the crowd, only for Punk to knock him out, blow a kiss and run through the crowd, I rarely find myself smiling in amazement as WWEs booking but they got it absolutely spot on that night.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Edge/taker or punk/taker? (Wrestlemania streak matches)


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Their Money In The Bank match gets overrated a lot. It's amazing but how can people call a match perfect when it wasn't executed perfectly?



HWRP said:


> Edge/taker or punk/taker? (Wrestlemania streak matches)


Edge's is just a tad better, my opinion might change though since I've only seen Punk/Taker twice.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have the streak dvd on netflix and have watched all the major ones except the edge one. I'm not a big edge guy but a heard great things about it


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, the Edge match is worth watching. Everything including and post-Edge is great. People like WM 23 with Batista but I don't really love it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk/Cena are the Flair/Steamboat of today. There I said. 

Anyway, there's something about Taker/Edge that's just special to me. I don't know what it is but I really adore that match. Maybe it's just the fact that Edge was main eventing a Mania. I don't know. Whatever it is, I prefer it to the Batista/Taker match from the previous year. That's a match I never got much hype for from the beginning. 

The GOAT streak match has got to be Taker/HBK WM 25. It's probably the GOAT WM match. I pretty sure that now if I go watch it and compare it with WM 26, I might prefer their WM 26 encounter. But at that time, I hailed it as the GOAT WM match.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I agree with you sharkboy in that HBK/Taker at Wrestlemania 25 is the best streak match, by a distance too in my opinion. It's perfect, from the story telling, to the execution, to the finish. I think a lot of the emotion gets caught up in the encounter between the two the following year, the fact that it's Shawns last match etc it gets tad overhyped but it's still a great match and it still has one of, if not the best video packages ever created.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cookie Monster said:


> I agree with you sharkboy in that HBK/Taker at Wrestlemania 25 is the best streak match, by a distance too in my opinion. It's perfect, from the story telling, to the execution, to the finish. I think a lot of the emotion gets caught up in the encounter between the two the following year, the fact that it's Shawns last match etc it gets tad overhyped but it's still a great match and it still has one of, if not the best video packages ever created.


Speaking of video packages, is it safe to say that around that time WWE hired a new video package guy? I mean seriously, ever since the video for HBK/Taker WM 26 the WWE has up their game. Punk/Taker was one badass of a video package this year. If only WWE had these sort of packages during the AE or RA era.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Speaking of video packages, is it safe to say that around that time WWE hired a new video package guy? I mean seriously, ever since the video for HBK/Taker WM 26 the WWE has up their game. Punk/Taker was one badass of a video package this year. If only WWE had these sort of packages during the AE or RA era.


I'm not sure, but they're definitely on a different planet to anything else. It's quite funny, WWE as a whole is so overproduced from the staging, the lighting etc. yet there video packages are made to perfection. There were some pretty cool video packages before WM26 but like you say they've increased tenfold since then.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Speaking of video packages, is it safe to say that around that time WWE hired a new video package guy? I mean seriously, ever since the video for HBK/Taker WM 26 the WWE has up their game. Punk/Taker was one badass of a video package this year. If only WWE had these sort of packages during the AE or RA era.


 Placebo - Running up that hill just fitted that feud/match


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Speaking of video packages, is it safe to say that around that time WWE hired a new video package guy? I mean seriously, ever since the video for HBK/Taker WM 26 the WWE has up their game. Punk/Taker was one badass of a video package this year. If only WWE had these sort of packages during the AE or RA era.







:mark: SO GOOD


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

:mark: :mark:


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Regal/OhNo ****


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Regal/OhNo ****


Goddamn, was it that good? I'll be honest, I'm no Ohno fan but the dynamic of Regal and him grappling in the ring makes me :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Goddamn, was it that good? I'll be honest, I'm no Ohno fan but the dynamic of Regal and him grappling in the ring makes me :mark:


Just out of curiosity, are you not a fan of Hero because you've only seen him in NXT? Or have you seen his indy work and just not a fan in general?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just out of curiosity, are you not a fan of Hero because you've only seen him in NXT? Or have you seen his indy work and just not a fan in general?


I actually haven't seen his NXT work at all tbh. I don't get NXT where I'm from so I usually have to donwnload and I barely find the time to download it. I was, however, fortunate enough to see the show where Regal and Ohno had their little in-ring segment. Quite frankly, he's meh on the mic.

As for the work of his that I've seen, obviously it's his pre-NXT stuff. I find that his early work (IWA-MS, CHIKARA) is, well, that of a green, inexperienced wrestler. He spent a lot of time doing random as fuck chain wrestling that had no impact on the overall development of the match. 

And as fucked up as it sounds, that was pretty much enough for me to based my opinion on him from. I only caught a few glimpses of his ROH work here and there and...meh. I say meh a lot whenever I need to describe a feeling of difference. 

I just don't think Ohno is the next big thing in pro wrestling and the only reason I think he got signed was out of respect for all his work over the years. He just doesn't bring much to the table. NXT is a huge talent pool. The NXT roster is more talented the main roster if you ask me. NXT guys have the midcard main show guys schooled in terms of character. Bray Wyatt is one of the best damn things they got down here. Heck, even Big E during his "5!" days was something unique. NXT is just filled with so much talent and quite frankly Ohno just doesn't stand out. At least for me anyways.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Cookie Monster said:


> :mark: :mark:


I tear uo every time I watch this hands down tbe GOAT package. It was an honor and tbe moments ot my life to be live at this and tbe wm25 match. I got to see my life long idol and hands down the GOAT as far as im concerned lsst match. Tbat was priceless for me


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Good post, my friend. I can see and understand all the points you made. For me, Hero is really hit or miss. They'll be times when I love the guy because he's a fantastic all around wrestler who's virtually limitless. Mat wrestling? Check. Striking? Check. Aerial offense? Pretty much a check, quite the agile dude for his size. He can certainly tell a story in the ring and his character work as a heel with Sweet N Sour Inc. is some of his best.

As far as his promos go, I agree and disagree. When it comes to demanding attention or having a powerful voice to really bring the viewer in, I can't say Hero has that. If you want a long promo where he goes really in depth with something or you want some entertainment, he's your guy. Shown that in PWG. I can see the 'not standing out' factor.

I think the two biggest downfalls for Hero are his ability to rely WAY too heavily on strikes (that's the Hero I can't fucking stand) and frankly, his look. He's never been a guy that was in good-great shape, always had some flab hangin around the midsection (definitely does these days) and he's relatively pale. If you get the Hero where his entire offense is elbow strikes and a roaring yakuza kick, then he can gtfo.

I wouldn't call Kassius Ohno 'the next big thing' but I could certainly see him hangin around the midcard for many years to come, due to his wrestling ability and the shock factor his strikes may bring.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I really like Hero/Ohno but the clock is ticking.. He needs to be debuted well to have a really good shot and right now, Barrett basically has his gimmick so I'm worried on what WWE is gonna do.

Really wish he had debuted with The Shield.. I want an indy stable so bad.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHY DOES EVERYBODY NOT LOVE THAT SHIELD MATCH @ WRESTLEMANIA AS MUCH.

It was the second best match on the show and would honestly make my top 50 Wrestlemania matches of all time because well .... It fucking ROCKS. They tear the house down every single time they're out there together and I really hope they stay together for at least the duration of 2013, screw breaking up such a great thing. 

If it were up to me, I'd actually keep them undefeated until Mania XXX where you blow off the angle once and for all against perhaps a superteam of some sort.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Shawn is by far the greatest feud match quality wise. Arguably 3 ***** matches, One of which being the GOAT WM match and another being the GOAT HIAC match. The GOAT casket match and a fun in personified brawl at Ground Zero.

What more could you ask for?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Like who? theyve already beaten everyone and their grandma

Only team I can see beating them is one with Triple H on it


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm with you King, I also thought it was the second best match of the night behind Punk/Taker. 

It was one of the best Wrestlemania opener since Bret/Owen in my view. I was still 50/50 going into the match whether they'd win or not though, I just thought, aah they're opening, they'll kick off with a face win and no one will actually turn heel, then they fucking won with Ambrose getting the pin too. I loved it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Forget all this constant Streak talk and the Shield's good, but not great opener that wasn't on the level at all of their other major encounters (  ). How bout we talk about The Dungeon Collection Disc 2? :cheer


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I was thinking .... Some combination of HHH/Taker/??? ..... Would make for a HUGE Wrestlemania match/moment as SHIELD always delivers. Just look at their Mania match on Sunday ; it was clearly against a lesser team than Cena/Ryback/Sheamus in terms of "BIG MATCH ATMOSPHERE" but they still managed to go out in the opener of Wrestlemania and absolutely KILL IT. I don't know what Meltzer/whoever else is smoking when they give that match any less than three stars as that's just fucking absurd.

Shield vs Kofi Kingston/Tensai/Brodus Clay (Main Event 4/10/13) : *****

Really awesome 9-10 minute little match here with SHIELD carrying the fatasses/WORTHLESS KOFI to a fucking a great contest on Main Event. These three just GET IT in the sense that they know their characters so well that they can go out there and sell like bosses and have such a team oriented offense as a single unit like we haven't seen before from the E'. BOSS SHIT. The other team was in this too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Bret/Booker Nitro match is one of the most overlooked in his career. Off the top of my head, it's probably my fourth favorite Bret match from his WCW period.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Shield beat the top three faces WWE had at Elimination Chamber. If they were to face another super team it would have to be along the lines of Trips/Cena/Taker or insert Rock in there, except at Mania because he gets hurt at Mania.

I hope they go the way it looks like their going with Shield winning the tag titles at Extreme Rules. They were good with Kane/Bryan at TLC so we know the match would be good. The question is, WHO GETS LEFT OUT? Unless they institute the Freebird rule.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Bret/Booker Nitro match is one of the most overlooked in his career. Off the top of my head, it's probably my fourth favorite Bret match from his WCW period.


Eh, I enjoyed it somewhat but Booker didn't sell the leg and the finish didn't do the match any favors either. Went ** 3/4. Didn't care for much of anything I've seen from Bret's WCW run besides his matches with Benoit.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty for the WWF Lightweight championship- Backlash 2000 *​
Great match. The crowd went from being dead at the beginning of the match to being alive and invested in it onwards. The left legwork from Dean Malenko is top-notch here with Malenko using it to set up for the Texas Cloverleaf. Scotty 2 Hotty's selling of the left leg was pretty solid as well for the most part of the match. However, Scotty 2 Hotty completely forgetting to sell his left leg at the very end of the match annoyed me a little bit. The finish was awesome with Malenko scoring the win. A very exciting match that woke the crowd up. *Rating: ***1/4. *


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret "Hitman" Hart : The Dungeon Collection (Disc Two)

The Hart Foundation vs. The Twin Towers - **** *
Duluth, MN 4/10/1989

Bret Hart vs. Tiger Mask II - ** 1/2*
WWF/NJPW/AJPW Wrestling Summit 4/13/1990

Intercontinental Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. Ric Flair - **** 1/4*
New Haven, CT 11/13/1991

Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker - **** 1/2*
MSG 1/31/1992

Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow - **** 1/4*
Milan, Italy 4/25/1993

Hart Foundation vs Twin Towers was pure fucking class all the way. GANG (as Bret likes to say) beats the fuck out of Bret until Neidhart gets the hot tag and fucks shit up. As always, Bret kills it against bigger guys and this was certainly no exception. Neidhart was actually really good in this too which is surprising as fuck TBH, great match and definitely worth checking out.

Bret vs Tiger Mask = SNOOZE. Seriously, this match is going to be overrated by most people due to who is involved, but apart from a few sequences, this match is complete 100 percent bullshit. I mean, everything is crisply worked and shit and there are no noticeable botches, but DAMN was this boring and tedious to watch ... Avoid at all costs if you know what's good for you, one of the most boring Bret matches I've ever seen.

Bret vs Flair is what Bret said it was ; Flair trying to call his style of match while Bret basically doesn't cooperate. They SOMEHOW manage to make this awesome and this is an insane styles clash of Flair's late 80s / early 90s awesomeness with Flair doing his trademark spots while Bret picks up the pace to 100 MPH. There are some transitions in this one that come off as kind of .... STRANGE (such as Flair over the rope, run across the apron clothesline spot that Bret kinda fucks up) but like I said before, it's more or less because of the clash of styles. WATCH as this is pretty fucking good.

Bret vs Undertaker is more or less Bret vs FRANKENSTEIN'S FUCKING MONSTER and Taker doesn't sell fuck all in this one, but that's the thing ; it was his character and Taker did it so fucking well that I can't sit here and describe it to you any better. It's essentially Bret going out there and running into MICHAEL FUCKING MYERS or some other horror movie icon that just won't go down no matter what, it's actually quite an awesome match when you look at it that way, and definitely adds to the awesome Taker-Bret chemistry that I hold so fondly to my heart. The ending is bullshit cheap as fuck which keeps it from near classic status, but it's still great.

Bret vs Bam Bam is VINTAGE (fuck you Cole) Bret vs big man, with Bam Bam being the ultimate big man to work BRET'S style before Big Daddy Cool came along in 94 (we'll get to that one later). Believe it or not, this is actually the third Bret-BAMBAM match ever released on DVD that came from 1993 which is pretty weird now that you mention it. I also love how we get the same finish in all three of the matches with the victory roll, fucking BRET man .

This disc was a major step up from the last one as it featured five matches with four of them being REALLY DAMN GOOD. The Taker match is a must watch for all fans of the deadman, while the Flair match should be watched by fans of the GOAT's run through the WWF in the 90s. Everything else is designed for the hardcore Bret mark and besides the Tiger Mask match (which wasn't very good at all but had it's moments of course), this disc delivers consistently REALLY GOOD matches. You could complain and say that their wasn't really a MUST SEE match so far (you would be correct), but take in mind that this is an UNRELEASED set, and it delivers what it promises.

Disc Two Overall Score : *7.75*​


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Watching this week's NXT now. Holy shit, Rollins/Graves next week :mark:

Man, NXT is everything RAW should be. Take the NXT guys, replace them with the midcard guys on RAW and we'd have one hell of a show. The guys in NXT have character, they can cut promos, they are everything the RAW midcard isn't. Heck, even the women have more personality than the midcard men roster. Then again, they get more airtime.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FUCK YES, awesome way to describe the Taker match. It's my favorite from the entire set, tbhayley. I'm higher on the Twin Towers & Bam Bam matches, but at least you enjoyed them as well.

Have you seen Bret/Bam Bam from King of the Ring? Seriously overlooked classic imo. **** 1/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What is up with the main stars appearing on NXT like this? Kind of ruins the whole developmental vibe to it, doesn't it? Also, how many weeks in advance are these shows taped? I get AJ vs Kaitlyn is a feud carried over from RAW but what about Maddox/Big E? Am I supposed to boo Big E on RAW and then cheer for him on NXT? No wonder kayfabe is dead.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BRET always delivered the goods against the company's bigger guys such as BAM BAM, Taker, Diesel, SID, Etc.

HBK WISHES HE COULD DO WHAT BRET DID, WHEN IN REALITY ALL OF HIS MATCHES SHOULD BE RATED 4 OUT OF 10.

BRET.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know how the GOAT does it, but Bret had two awesome matches at the King of the Ring 1993 PPV. That match with Perfect is one of the greatest face-face matchups in WWE history. Loved how Perfect was teasing and alluding to his heel character throughout and after the match. Bret ended the night with an awesome big man-little man story with Bigelow. Why did they get rid of the King of the Ring PPV anyways?

I haven't caught up with NXT in a while, but I loved what they did with it in 2012. Arguably the best television program that year. I actually like the interactions between the main stars and the developmental talent on NXT, and it really links the two worlds together. From what I remember, they tape about 3-4 shows per taping.

Has anyone else seen the Bret/DDP match on the 8/17/98 edition of Nitro? Loads of fun and FAR better than their WW3 disaster.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret's your pick for GOAT? 

Interesting.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Regal/Ohno ***3/4, probably ****

Man, I hope we get a second match. The psychology behind Regal attacking the fingers so that Ohno couldn't have locked in the cravate was just fantastic. Also Regal's facial expressions. Looked like he was really out of it. And after the kick to the head, I really thought Ohno had it. But somehow, Regal maanged to get the win. We need a second match!!!

Still ain't got nothing on Regal/Ambrose though lol. Damn, those matches were just nasty!


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Random but the commentary in The Shield match at Wrestlemania annoyed me. They didn't mention once that Big Show watched Orton get pinned and did nothing about it. Cole also said Show was the first guy to rip off their protective gear. Sheamus had done it at Elimination Chamber. The match was still great and retained it's *** rating on my second watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did you leave a star off of the X7 main event, Cody? haha


I've been open about how I felt it had portions where it dragged like any other Attitude Era brawl at the time. That's where I fail to see it as a "classic" match. WM 19 slaughters it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Rah said:


> *The Undertaker Vs CM Punk (07/04/2013 WWE)*
> ★★★★ 1/2+
> 
> The opening line to Living Colour's "Cult of Personality" echoes true a metaphor for the majestic spectacle that stole the show in Metlife Stadium. Two wrestling gods graced our presence with a match that solidifies exactly why we all love professional wrestling. The message, itself, was simple. This match would be an affirmation for Punk; he believes he is the best in the world and this match, he anticipated, would prove it. Contrary to opinion, the greatest accolade in sports today isn't The Streak, it's a so far unattained one - beating the streak. It would be that victory that would cement Punk as the greatest to have ever lived.
> ...


:clap

Great review man. One the best match reviews I've read. I appreciate how you pointed out the brilliant storytelling and character aspects of this already classic match. Those are elements that are present in the last seven Streak matches along with the amazing atmosphere and sheer emotion. Again, awesome stuff!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

XIX > XVII.

Although I'm a fan of both matches and have them at the same rating, I think it's one of those "HIGH-LOW" scenarios where Austin-Rock @ XIX is closer to ***** 3/4* while Austin-Rock @ XVII is closer to ***** 1/4*. I don't think an argument should be made for either of them to be five stars though, regardless of how great both matches are.

That's also because I think there's only a few matches outside of my ten WWF/WWE matches @ ******* that should even be in the five star discussion as five stars should be fucking SPECIAL.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's a generic pick, but I can watch any Bret match (outside of THAT Wrestlemania match) and enjoy it from start to finish. I am always in awe with how Bret is able to make every move look crisp and effective, yet execute it in a way where his opponent does not actually get hurt. He's also my favorite, but Dr. Phil is slowly but surely getting ready to surpass him in that regard unk2

Lately I've been going through some matches from Shawn's 1996 WWE title reign. I'm surprised by the lack of attention for the 3-on-3 match at the IYH 9: International Incident PPV. That match was lots of fun and everyone played their part well. You know a match clicks when the likes of Ahmed Johnson has a good performance. I am still in shock at the fact that he performed a triple german suplex :shock. Also shocking as to how over SID is in this match; crowd won't stop chanting his name. Shawn does his usual FIP work to perfection here while Vader and Bulldog put a hurting on Michaels. My only real negative regarding this match is that considering how long it was, we did not get to see Owen in action as much as I would have liked. I have a feeling that it is because the match took place in Canada and the crowd might have cheered him. With that said, it's definitely another plus to one of the greatest title reigns of all time. ******

If Cena ends up having an extended title reign, I would love it if he participates in a main event tag match of some sort where he gets pinned (preferably as cleanly as possible) against his next future title opponent just like Shawn and Vader here. In a perfect world, I would love it if Cesaro got that opportunity.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

DR. PHIL

Son of a bitch, think I may like that better than CM GOAT...


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

I have both at ****3/4 but 19's better 17 got extra points for the great booking and heel turn 19 is just pure awesome idk I like 01 and later Austin far more than "primal" Austin


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

As an all around talent there has been NOBODY BETTER than Punk for essentially the last four fucking years. I don't know how many guys can say that they were consistently the best thing going in the company for that long, automatically entering DR. PHIL / CM GOAT into my own personal top 10 GOAT WWF/WWE performers discussion. He has a few DEFINING MOMENTS, has that defining five star classic, and not only does he have that but he also has years upon years of consistently fantastic work to be considered one of the best.

Punk, Cena, & Bryan would perhaps be the only full timers to enter any "TOP WHATEVER ALL AROUND PERFORMERS" discussion that I would partake in.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Punk is top 5 ever in my list of favorites be is my favorite mic worker and character of all time. Pound for pound I think Eddie could very well be the goat too although I'll always role with hbk


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Flair's '85 - '89 was almost impeccable. He was arguably the best total package professional wrestler not only in his company but in the industry at a time when he had plenty of great competition for that "best in the world" distinction.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^^^ 89 Flair three best matches are better than tbe top 3 matches of most wrestlers career that's scary to think about


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> WHY DOES EVERYBODY NOT LOVE THAT SHIELD MATCH @ WRESTLEMANIA AS MUCH.
> 
> It was the second best match on the show and would honestly make my top 50 Wrestlemania matches of all time because well .... It fucking ROCKS. They tear the house down every single time they're out there together and I really hope they stay together for at least the duration of 2013, screw breaking up such a great thing.
> 
> If it were up to me, I'd actually keep them undefeated until Mania XXX where you blow off the angle once and for all against perhaps a superteam of some sort.


I need to watch it again. I thought it was very good but not quite great. Felt it needed a few more minutes. I was close to adding it to my list but decided not to. That could change on a re-watch. 

Watching this week's Raw now. Looking forward to Dolph's cash in.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What were some of Flair's best matches in 1985? That's commonly cited as his best overall year. Also, are his Steamboat matches that did not happen in 89 or 94 worth a watch?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^^the three with steamboat are all legendary that set and hbk and taker to me are tbe best rivalries ever quality wise. Chi town rumble and tbe 2/3 falls are better than the third one but all are utterly ridiculous. Flair is the GOAT selling wise h3 made anyone look like a billion dollars


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Are the Piper/Savage matches worth watching? (WWF Superstars Of Wrestling Taping & WCW Nitro)


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What were some of Flair's best matches in 1985? That's commonly cited as his best overall year. Also, are his Steamboat matches that did not happen in 89 or 94 worth a watch?


85 is the year of the Horsemen. I know he was feuding with Dusty then but I can't name the venues that he wrestled him in off the top of my head. Both guys were hot though and they butted heads IRL because they both were Alpha Males in the locker room and one always had to be better than the other.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

William Regal vs Kassius Ohno is the WWE MOTY so far, tied with Undertaker vs Punker from WM.

Hands down, far and away, it isn't even close in the god damn slightest. Holy crap that was quite possibly the greatest bit of near 13 minutes I've ever experienced.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I really need to see this match somehow. 

Edit: Oh sweet, I can watch the latest NXT on Hulu Free.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everyone has to check it out. Seeing both men lay on the mat at the end like they just experienced to most savage beating of their lives = :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, I need to check that out too. Has anyone got a link to it yet? Being from the UK Hulu Free isn't available over here. Which is pretty ridiculous, it's the 21st century dammit! Is NXT even on TV over here?


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Finally got round to watching Lesnar/HHH from Mania

I enjoyed it overall although it could have done to have been at least 5 minutes shorter, it did drag a bit and the time between spots was fairly annoying. Everything they did in the match was great though, the elbow to Michaels was great, Heyman was awesome, the use of the kimura was brilliant and Lesnar on the top rope was cool to see

The ending stretch was great, it kept Lesnar strong but didn't feel like HHH was lucky to win the match. My only problem with Cena/Brock was the finish and if it had been similar to this then that match would have been damn near perfect.

Lesnar is just so unique, there is no one on the planet like him and WWE really need to get the most out of him that they can over the next few years, give him a run with the belt and have someone fresh (ie not Cena) beat him for it because it would put them over huge. If they want Sheamus to be the next major babyface having him beat Lesnar would do this and bring a ruthlessness to his character that is needed. If they wanted to leave Ryback a face and have him get over huge he would be another candidate to end Lesnars run.

Very good match overall then, I'd put it ***3/4 range, keep everything in the match but take away most of the rest periods and you've got a ****+ match easy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got my delivery from SV . LESNAR BLURAY and Backlash 09 DVD, along with Bluray for my WM Special competition (NOT Cena/Rock Bluray of course ). Forgot how awesome the Lesnar set match listings was. Combined with the Bluray extras, it's pretty fucking tremendous. Glad it came back in stock for like a day (already out of stock again, won't be coming back on SV most likely now).


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

Watching an episode of RAW from '04. The interm-GM is Eugene. :ti


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Any recommendations for some underrated PG Era TV gemz?

Oh and btw, Mysterio/ADR 2 out of 3 falls and Mysterio & Bourne/Miz & Morrison are AWESOME matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Davy Jones said:


> Watching an episode of RAW from '04. The interm-GM is Eugene. :ti


BOUNCY CASTLE GM OFFICE~!


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

Show starting off with musical chairs was hilarious. Flair is GOAT.

Watching Vengeance 2004 next. I'm looking forward to it. The card is a million times better than Bad Blood. Save for the HIAC and Orton/Benjamin, that PPV was dreadful. Only 9,000 people in attendance hurt the event even more.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You didn't enjoy Benoit/Kane? That was awesome too imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HIAC was a big reason Bad Blood sucked. Benoit/Kane was the saving grace on the show.

That musical chairs segment was hilariously awesome. Funnier than anything from the Russo AE years. Yeah I said it. And I fucking mean it too.

Got Vengeance 04 on DVD... but I've left it sealed because its a special edition version with the Trish Stratus DVD bundled with it and its somewhat rare and for some reason I don't wanna open it even though I have no intentions of selling it :lmao.


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

ATF said:


> You didn't enjoy Benoit/Kane? That was awesome too imo.


Yeah, it was OK. I didn't like the finish though. Benoit with the great counter into the crossface with Kane getting out of it only to have Benoit roll him up for the win. It should have ended with the crossface off of the counter.




Big Z said:


> HIAC was a big reason Bad Blood sucked. Benoit/Kane was the saving grace on the show.
> 
> That musical chairs segment was hilariously awesome. Funnier than anything from the Russo AE years. Yeah I said it. And I fucking mean it too.
> 
> Got Vengeance 04 on DVD... but I've left it sealed because its a special edition version with the Trish Stratus DVD bundled with it and its somewhat rare and for some reason I don't wanna open it even though I have no intentions of selling it :lmao.


I enjoyed the HIAC. It dragged on a bit but it told the story pretty well. JR was great calling it too. 
Speaking of Trish: I love this run she's on. When she first began this heel run she was horrible but she's really coming into it now. Tomko sucks though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What were some of Flair's best matches in 1985? That's commonly cited as his best overall year. Also, are his Steamboat matches that did not happen in 89 or 94 worth a watch?


If WOOLCOCK and Yeah1993 were in here they's be able to help more, but I'll piggyback on the things they've mentioned before. 

vs. Butch Reed (8/10/85)
vs. Terry Taylor 
vs. Jake Roberts (11/24/85)
vs. Wahoo McDaniel (two matches I believe)



ATF said:


> Any recommendations for some underrated PG Era TV gemz?
> 
> Oh and btw, Mysterio/ADR 2 out of 3 falls and Mysterio & Bourne/Miz & Morrison are AWESOME matches.


Edge vs. Kane Last Man Standing from I believe 1/7/11 is a TON of fun. The Trending Superstar 4-way from the end of 2011 (Bryan vs. Rhodes vs. Ryder vs. Ziggler) is also fantastic. Jericho vs. Kingston & DX vs. JeriShow from October of '09 are definitely good. 12 Man Tag from RAW 10/3/11. Christian vs. Kane from Smackdown 6/24/11 turns into a tag match and both outings are enjoyable.

EDIT: Mysterio vs. Swagger No DQ from SD '10 is a total blast.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Kane actually had two great matches that year, one with Benoit at Bad Blood and another with HBK at Unforgiven. I'm also a sucker for the story being told in the Sinksty matches, Both Taboo Tuesday and NYR 2005 make me :mark: out a lot.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Only worthwhile Flair matches ****+ from '85 I have are the ones that Woolcock recommended, vs Kerry von Erich 12/10/85 and Wahoo 09/02/85. Latter is tremendous. There will be a few Mid-South matches, but most of his MACW/JCP stuff that year was obscure. House shows n all. Still can't find his match with Magnum.

Also believe Flair had a better 87 than 85.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> I'm also a sucker for the story being told in the Sinksty matches, Both Taboo Tuesday and NYR 2005 make me :mark: out a lot.


That was awesome, I agree. Didn't Snitsky fuck up Kane's throat with a chair to write Kane off TV to film See No Evil?


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

Snitsky punting that baby into the crowd was one of the funniest things I've ever seen on TV.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Eulonzo said:


> That was awesome, I agree. Didn't Snitsky fuck up Kane's throat with a chair to write Kane off TV to film See No Evil?


I know he took hiatus after the Snitsky fucked up his neck at Taboo Tuesday, But i don't know if it was to film See No Evil. The feud gets little to none recognition for the fabulous storytelling, intensity and psychology.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I just marked out because I thought my Steve Austin bluray ste arrived but then it was just a game. :austin2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

So I watched Regal/Ohno from the latest NXT and enjoyed it a lot. It's a really vicious match. There's not much 'wrestling' per se as both men just try to lay the other out with brutal strikes throughout. As others have mentioned, Regal working on Ohno's hand is great and the close up on him bending and jarring his fingers back works really well and makes you cringe. Regal just kicking Ohno in the corner as hard as he could and trying to dissect him throughout the match, to prove he's still got that mean streak is fun to watch. Ohno getting back into it by aiming his offense at Regal's head is smart, and Regal sells it really well. He really doesn't look like he knows where he is and the commentators (Maddox!) sell it well too. The kick to the head into the ringpost was vicious too. A really hard hitting match, one that only someone like Regal can pull off well. I'll give it ****3/4*, maybe ******. Can't quite decide.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What were some of Flair's best matches in 1985? That's commonly cited as his best overall year. Also, are his Steamboat matches that did not happen in 89 or 94 worth a watch?


As said by others:

vs Jake Roberts, Mid South 11/24/85
vs Koko Ware, Memphis 11/18/85
vs Terry Taylor, Mid South 5/3/85
vs Terry Taylor, Mid South 4/28/85
vs Terry Taylor, Mid South 6/1/85
vs Butch Reed, Mid South 8/10/85
vs Wahoo McDaniel, Mid South 7/12/85
vs Wahoo McDaniel, Battle Of The Belts 2/3 Falls 9/2/85
vs Ted Dibiase, Mid South 11/6/85
vs Kerry Von Erich, Hawaii 10/12/85

In addition to those matches, you might want to check out Lawler vs Dundee Loser Leaves Town 12/30/85 (MOTY), Lawler vs Savage Loser Leaves Town 6/3/85, Butch Reed vs Dick Murdoch 9/22/85, Dibiase vs Duggan NO DQ 3/8/85, Duggan vs Sawyer 11/11/85 & Dibiase vs Duggan 3/22/85.

Honestly 1985 might be the best year in US wrestling history.



HayleySabin said:


> William Regal vs Kassius Ohno is the WWE MOTY so far, tied with Undertaker vs Punker from WM.
> 
> Hands down, far and away, it isn't even close in the god damn slightest. Holy crap that was quite possibly the greatest bit of near 13 minutes I've ever experienced.


:mark:

Absolutely knew you'd love it. Glad to see the recommendation and pimping was echoed & trumped by yourself. Be stoked if they go down the Regal/Ambrose path and book a rematch to conclude the program.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

@Woolcock, got a list of the best Memphis matches from your POV? Downloaded a decent set from 80-84, includes Lawler/Funk, Lawler/Bockwinkel, Garvin/Savage, '82 Lawler/Mantell feud. Was hoping to grab some opinions of 'em.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> WHY DOES EVERYBODY NOT LOVE THAT SHIELD MATCH @ WRESTLEMANIA AS MUCH.


BECAUSE OF THAT GODDAMN FINISH! I felt it was too short and the ending is the most disappointing piece of shit I've seen in a long while. Orton got the spear and didn't kick out and I was like "Is that it?". Until Orton is back on top, turns heel or ANYTHING, I cannot appreciate this match properly.



Davy Jones said:


> Watching an episode of RAW from '04. The interm-GM is Eugene. :ti


Ah, that's the one in Winnipeg from 5th July? All I remember is the musical chairs in the beginning and a pretty good Orton match with Jericho. It's funny how hard their attempt to get Edge over as a face flopped here. He kept getting booed every week and Orton was getting all the cheers at Vengeance.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> @Woolcock, got a list of the best Memphis matches from your POV? Downloaded a decent set from 80-84, includes Lawler/Funk, Lawler/Bockwinkel, Garvin/Savage, '82 Lawler/Mantell feud. Was hoping to grab some opinions of 'em.


Lawler/Dundee LLT 12/30/85
Lawler/Funk NO DQ 3/23/81
Lawler/Savage LLT 6/3/85
Lawler/Idol Hair vs Hair Steel Cage 4/27/87
Lawler/Dundee LLT 6/6/83
Lawler/Mantell NO DQ 3/22/82
Lawler/Mantell Barbed Wire 3/29/82
Lawler vs Funk Empty Arena 4/6/81
Mantell & King Cobra vs Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar 7/19/82
Dundee vs Koko Ware 2/3 Falls Scaffold Match 6/21/82
Moondogs vs Fabulous Ones Stretcher Match 5/2/83
Koko Ware vs Flair 11/18/85
Morton & Gilbert vs Fuchi & Onita Tupelpo Concession Stand Brawl 9/4/81

Those would be the absolute best imo. But you've got Lawler vs Blackwell, Lawler vs Jimmy Hart, Lawler vs Bigelow Texas Death Match '86, Lawler/Mantell vs Dundee/Landell etc.

Lawler/Bockwinkel are generally considered good-very good matches albeit not hitting the heights that you'd expect given the talent involved. Lawler/Martel 10/12/85 & Lawler/Hennig 5/9/88 are very good Lawler AWA title matches though.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

VINTAGE LAWLER.


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> BECAUSE OF THAT GODDAMN FINISH! I felt it was too short and the ending is the most disappointing piece of shit I've seen in a long while. Orton got the spear and didn't kick out and I was like "Is that it?". Until Orton is back on top, turns heel or ANYTHING, I cannot appreciate this match properly.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, that's the one in Winnipeg from 5th July? All I remember is the musical chairs in the beginning and a pretty good Orton match with Jericho. It's funny how hard their attempt to get Edge over as a face flopped here. He kept getting booed every week and Orton was getting all the cheers at Vengeance.


Yep. I'm watching it right now and there are very loud "Lets go Orton" chants. JR and King just mentioned it. Lol. Edge is a natural heel.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Lawler/Dundee LLT 12/30/85
> Lawler/Funk NO DQ 3/23/81
> Lawler/Savage LLT 6/3/85
> Lawler/Idol Hair vs Hair Steel Cage 4/27/87
> ...


Good stuff. I am very curious as to how a 2/3 falls Scaffold match works, throw the opponent off twice?
I am definately looking forward to Lawler/Dundee '85, I see they had an identical stip match in July 86, pales in comparison? Most stuff I've seen from Dundee in his '86 JCP run was solid, and the first few matches in the comp has highlighted him in a very good way, too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah basically mate, first person to drop twice loses. They have a 20 count in between to start climbing the scaffold and begin the next fall. Its the best Scaffold match ever and also a brilliant match in its own right. Dundee has experience in construction and working in the circus assisting trapeeze performers and Lance notes this makes him the king of the scaffold match. Between Koko looking scared stiff, Dundee busting out insane sequences to highlight his agility and experience in using the scaffold to his advantage, the fact they work ungodly stiff for a scaffold match instead of playing it safe and the fact the scaffold looks dangerously unsafe compared to your modern day scaffolds they manage to create a match filled with tension and superbly timed nearfalls and escapes. Ending is incredible too.

Yeah they have a July '86 LLT match. Think I only saw it once but it was very good which is par for the course with Lawler/Dundee. Just suffers for having the '83 and '85 match as competition with the '85 match being arguably a contender for best US match of all time. Plus I wanted to get a varied list of what to look out for instead of just Lawler/Dundee.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Watched Sid/HBK from Survivor Series '96 randomly last night. That match holds up. Has to be the best one on one match of SID's career. Love that shit. Off to HBK/VADER SummerSlam '96.

:hbk2

I also really liked that Shield WM match. Probably have it at ***1/4-***1/2 o first watch, watching it live. Have to give it another watch soon.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Undertaker/Lesnar​*









*Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar - Unforgiven 2002 *
*****1/4*









*Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002*
*****3/4*









*Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar vs Big Show - Smackdown 2003 *
****3/4*









*Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2003 *
****1/2*









*Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar & Big Show - Smackdown 2003 *
***** (Fun match)​


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I haven't watched the Hell in a Cell match between the two in years. You rating it that high is making me want to watch it, I think I'll give that a match later on today.


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

I really enjoyed their HIAC match. It was brutal.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have the Lesnar/Taker match from Uforgiven 2002 at ***. It was fine, but the ending just sucked and destroyed the entire match


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That HIAC match is one of the best IMO. Not sure exactly where I'd rank it but it would definitely be high. Probably top 5.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

The hiac is great but I rarely wstch because something about seeing br9ck as a rookie dominate the biggest and most destructive legend in his own match bothers me. Its brutal and a hell of a battle but im a life long taker mark and not much of a fan of brock though he's a tremendous specimen


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*Vengeance 2006 review*

Randy Orton vs. Kurt Angle *(***) *

Umaga vs. Eugene *(DUD)*

Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley *(**1/4)*

Shelton Benjamin vs. Carlito vs. Johnny Nitro (With Melina) (for the Intercontental Championship) *(***1/4)*

Rob Van Dam vs. Edge (With Lita) (for the WWE Championship) *(***1/2)*

Kane vs. Imposter Kane *(*)*

John Cena vs. Sabu - Extreme Lumber Jack Match *(****)*

D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad *(**)*



*1.) *This match was below their ONS bout but still a great way to start the event. Angle works on the leg throughout the match. Orton being the awesome seller he is, rives in a pain as if he's taken a bullet to the leg. Only gripe, I have with this match is the lack of offense Orton inflicts pm Angle in the match, On a percentage scale, I would say Angle had 85% offense while Orton only had around 15%. The finish of a bullet quick RKO was shock worthy and well executed (Orton Wins), Solid opener. 

*2.)* Awful, Awful match, Deserves the DUD rating. Eugene got squashed basically, than a bunch of circus frea……..oh wait legends (sorry ) come out to assist Eugene but get demolished as well, Kamla stands tall though and begins to taunt Umaga, possibly teasing a match for the future, sadly no just a pointless segment after the match.

*3.)* Foley does his usual shtick of an awesome interview/promo before the match, Pointing out sentences in Flair's book where he proceeds to call Foley stuntman. The match itself is certainly not a scratch on their classic "I Quit" match but it's decent for what it was. A hatred personified fight which consisted of Foley not giving two shits about winning the match and just wanting to punish Flair for what he said. The first fall was won by Flair when he rolled Foley up for the 3 count and the second was again won by Flair when Foley let his anger get the best of him, hitting Flair with a trash can and getting himself disqualified. Decent for how short it was.

*4.)* Carlito owned in this match, them spots off the ropes were a thing of beauty. Although, i do believe all three men pulled their weight quite well. Nitro played the heel role, doing all he could to win and using Melina as an advantage. Shelton playing more of a tweener type role, teaming up with Nitro at times to take out Carlito but still pandering to the crowd and going for huge hits. Obviously the babyface is the nappy headed MOFO, Carltio, the crowd is behind him from the get-go, fighting off both Nitro and Shelton at the same time and executing those magnificent rope SPOTZ. The champion even got pinned by Nitro from a move Carlito hit, talk about classic babyface work. FUN, FUN MATCH.

*5.)* RVD and Edge really brought their A game and showed they are capable of putting on a great match worthy of main event spot. Edge brings out his old 2002 high flying style to combat Van Dam's fancy footwork, Psychology at it's finest here. Reversals, counters and misses are very prevalent and are really why this is more of a great match than a good one. The ending is a little iffy and predictable though, who didn't see Edge running headfirst into the chair. Lita was even holding the chair inside the ropes thus making it impossible for the spear to inflict anymore damage than it normally would. Anyways, Great championship match, Should of main evented IMO.

*6.)* Kane vs. Imposter Kane, Do i really need to say anything? This match was horrible, i was inclined to give it a DUD rating but i did like how much detail the imposter kane payed attention to. Everything from the lifting of the gloves after the punches to the flying clothesline were on point. The actual wrestling still sucked though.

*7.)* Why does everyone hate this match? It was a perfect blend of hardcore action, interference and methodical pace. Cena looks legit pissed throughout the match, i guess it's because of the black eye p). Sabu performed his usual chair SPOTZ throughout the match, Cena getting his ass mugged by an array of extremely crappy wrestlers was kinda redundant and hilarious at the same time, considering it took like an hour for the RAW guys to get over there and actually help Cena. Guess their mad, he has reduced them to jobber status and keeps on bumping them off of PPVs lmao). Anyway, The ending with the table spot was nasty as fuck, Sabu looked like he really injured his lower back. MOTN for me, but not for many.

*8.)* My DVD stopped on me, mid way through the promo of the DX-Spirit Squad match but i checked my original rating and i stand by it. I still remember the basic formula of the match, Shawn gets dominated for quite awhile than finally hot tags Trips, who eventually gets the win by performing a finisher on one of the losers. Simple.​


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Flair/Foley from VG 06 it's a DUD for me. Foley looked like a failure there. I have the Kane's matches at a DUD 2.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Flair/Foley from VG 06 it's a DUD for me. Foley looked like a failure there. I have the Kane's matches at a DUD 2.


Dosen't deserve a DUD, Foley may of been a failure in the match but Flair clearly carried him to a passable one and it was only 7 minutes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember how disappointed I was with Flair/Foley. All the hype going back to 04 when Flair started trashing Mick in interviews, Foley responding after he'd left the company, both of their books too obviously... and then the awesome promos leading into the actual match... and then it sucked . Ok, it was there to build to SS, but that isn't an excuse for it being bad. HBK/Taker GZ and Lesnar/Taker UF are both beautiful examples of using one match to simply build to another, so it is more than possible. At least their SS match was worth it. I also quite liked their LMS match in TNA aside from the retarded finish.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im goimh to watch some tlc goodness


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Watching Lohndon/Kendrick vs. MNM from JD 2006, It's definitely one of my top 10 tag team matches from the RA era. GREAT MATCH and at least **** stars in my book.


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

Up next: Chris Benoit vs. Eugene for the World Heavyweight Championship. :ti


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

so Regal/Ohno was brutality without blood done right. That was some good shit. Everyone has already broken down the match so I'll just say its my second favorite WWE match this year behind Taker/Punk. I'd about ****1/2 stars. I don't LOVE the finish because I wanted the breaking down of the hand to play a bigger part.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> I haven't watched the Hell in a Cell match between the two in years. You rating it that high is making me want to watch it, I think I'll give that a match later on today.


Well,it's arguably the most brutal match in WWE history.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think HHH/Batista Vengenace is WWE's most violent match. The steel chair with the barbwire....just nasty!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched Jericho/Rey the bash 09 ****3/4 loved it. 2nd best match of 2009


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I think HHH/Batista Vengenace is WWE's most violent match. The steel chair with the barbwire....just nasty!


I'd put JBL/Eddie and Orton/Foley above it but it's certainly violent as fuck.

As for that MNM/Londrick match...****1/4 imo. Great stuff.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Thoughts on HBK V Bret Hart Survivor Series 1992.

Everyone jumps to either the Iron Man match or the Montreal match when these two are mentioned together. But this so much better then either IMO. ****1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Thoughts on HBK V Bret Hart Survivor Series 1992.
> 
> Everyone jumps to either the Iron Man match or the Montreal match when these two are mentioned together. But this so much better then either IMO. ****1/2


Wasn't a fan. They tried to get Shawn over by having him control most of the match but there were wayyyyy too many chinlocks & the sudden finish killed any work that had been put in to get Shawn over as a threat. ** 1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea i liked the hbk/bret svs 92 i give it a ****. probably their second best bout


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Backlash 2004 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (World Heavyweight Championship)*

I'm pretty excited about watching this match as I haven't seen it in a while. It's in Canada so HBK gets booed heavily as he enters, while Benoit gets a massive ovation. King keeps referencing the fact that Benoit is a "one-hit wonder" and is sure Benoit won't leave with the title this time around. It's a pretty standard opening, with a lot of chops exchanged by both Michaels and Benoit. HHH gains control, heads to the top rope but is caught expertly into the Crossface by Benoit. HBK is able to break it up. HHH and Benoit then head to the top turnbuckle, before Michaels arrives and pushes Benoit off and he falls hard to the ground on the outside. Michaels and The Game go at it before the referee is knocked down. Benoit then comes back and locks HHH in the sharpshooter which naturally gets a big cheer. He then turns to Michaels and locks him in the Crossface. The referee is still down however. Benoit goes to check on him but is caught by HBK and ironically he locks Benoit in the sharpshooter. The crowd is booing like crazy naturally, and those are escalated even more when Earl Hebner arrives as the second referee. It's a great moment, and Benoit is eventually able to escape.

After some more chops (even HHH hits a few), only HBK is left in the ring. With very audible "you screwed Bret" chants, he heads to the top and attempts to dive on both men on the outside. However he misses and crashes through the announce table. Even the crowd is in shock before remembering to boo him again. Great spot. With HBK out of the equation, HHH begins to dissect Benoit's upper body and especially his shoulder, by ramming him into the steel post, the steps and then working on it hard in the ring. HHH eventually drills Benoit with the Pedigree, and it looks to be over but HBK arrives to break the count.

HBK tunes up the band in the corner, waiting for HHH to get to his feet. Benoit arrives on the apron and he gets kicked instead. HHH hits a low blow on Michaels before retrieving the sledghammer and jarring it into HBK's back. He then goes to Pedigree Benoit on the outside, but it's countered and HHH is sent crashing into the fans. As Benoit crawls into the ring, HBK is waiting to hit Sweet Chin Music, but Benoit grabs his leg ala Austin at WM14, trips him up and locks him in the sharpshooter. Shawn tries to fight out but he can't. HHH slowly crawls to the apron and gets close to breaking it up, but he can't quite get there in time and HBK has to tap. J.R puts Benoit over big time by frequently saying he's now "the man" and even King is impressed.

What a great match. It often gets forgotten due to their classic at Mania but this is superb too. It is probably just a notch off their match the month before, but still a classic. Benoit proving to everyone around the world in his hometown that he isn't a one-hit wonder and that he is here to stay. The action was pretty frantic and all three men played their part. Benoit making Shawn tap to the Sharpshooter was a good way to end it too.

*****1/2*

*Raw 5th July 2004 - Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge*

A Eugene match! There's a fun dynamic to this one as both Edge and Benoit don't really want to hurt Eugene despite him being on the other team. He and Benoit start it off and exchange a few counters before Benoit applauds Eugene for keeping up with him. HHH is then tagged in and he and Benoit work each other over in the corner, before Benoit traps HHH in the Crossface, but Eugene breaks it up. Flair and Trips are constantly talking to Eugene, trying to keep him on their side. Edge gets the tag and cleans house, hitting a flying doulbe clothesline on Flair and HHH, before Spearing Flair. He then accidently knocks Eugene off the apron, and Eugene does his best Hulk impression and gets mad. He attacks Edge, and that allows Flair and The Game to take advantage and isolate Edge. They work on his shoulder for a while, before Edge finally makes the tag and Benoit arrives swinging from the fences, and hits some nice Germans Suplexes on HHH. Benoit is then pushed into the ref, and HHH brings a chair into the ring. Benoit counters and locks him in the sharpshooter. HHH is screaming in pain and begs for Eugene to help him. Eugene looks reluctant, but slowly grabs the chair and eventually clocks Benoit with it. Trips hits Benoit with the Pedigree for the win.

A short match, but Eugene being involved and torn about his feelings to each competitor made it fun. A good finishing sequence and Eugene's facial expressions are second to none, he really makes you feel for him. Good heel work by HHH and Flair by constantly getting in Eugene's ear and working away on Edge's shoulder.

***3/4*



Spoiler:  So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


​


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

> Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****


Shit, I need to watch this.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes! That match is crazy fun with a really hot crowd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think the action and crowd for that Backlash match is actually superior to Wrestlemania XX. Only thing that puts the latter over it to me is the emotion and the perfect setting. In the grandest stage of them all, in Madison Square Garden, making the unstoppable Triple H tap out, post-match celebration with family & Eddie Guerrero. Just perfect. If the two had been combined, it might have been the ultimate perfect match for me. Going beyond 5 stars too.

@*Brye:* That tag match is awesome. It's been a while since I saw it but that's exactly why many love the Attitude Era. The atmosphere is unreal.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I somewhat agree. The crowd at Backlash was awesome (as most Canadian ones usually are) and that definitely helped the match big time. I almost gave it *****3/4* but held off slightly, not sure why. I think I'll always have the Mania match above this one due to that emotional ending as you said. Nothing can top that. But this Backlash one usually forgotten as I mentioned in the review, but it really is a classic.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm one of the few who prefers the Backlash triple threat over Wrestlemania. There's just something about that MSJ parody that I freaking love.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Backlash match is fantastic, 2004's PPV Main events were the complete opposite of what we have now in 2013 ;

2004 Royal Rumble Match
Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit I
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit II
Eddie Guerrero vs JBL

The most impressive main event streak I think I have ever seen.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The callback to the screwjob is great, Hebner arriving as the second ref awesome.

I doubt anyone can recall this minor detail, but at the start of the match HBK can be seen talking to some people in the front row. After a brief chat he suddenly seems really pissed off, and then the camera shows a close up on him and he looks as if he's swearing violently. Obviously no one knows what was said but it definitely looked as if someone in the crowd had ticked him off big time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> That Backlash match is fantastic, 2004's PPV Main events were the complete opposite of what we have now in 2013 ;
> 
> 2004 Royal Rumble Match
> Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero
> ...


Too bad that dull HIAC match at Bad Blood and the Taker/Dudleyz match ruined it. But Benoit like the boss that he is, picked up the slacks for Vengeance and SummerSlam. The streak carried on for the rest of the year, though. If there's one thing that wasn't flat out terrible about the Smackdown PPVs, it's the title matches were always quality (specially in the main event slot).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Backlash 2004 is my second favorite brand-exclusive PPV behind the glorious Vengeance 2003. Two all-time classics in one PPV with a really hot Canadian crowd. In some respects, I actually preferred the action in the Backlash triple threat compared to the WM classic especially with Shawn Michaels. I'll give it a firm *****3/4* and another addition to possibly the greatest year ever for RAW depending on how you feel about 2000.

You guys were not lying about the Christian/McIntyre series from 2010. In that god-forsaken year of drab, it's nice to find some gems on the two main shows. Were there any other nice matches in 2010 that are often overlooked?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Backlash 2004 is my second favorite brand-exclusive PPV behind the glorious Vengeance 2003. Two all-time classics in one PPV with a really hot Canadian crowd. In some respects, I actually preferred the action in the Backlash triple threat compared to the WM classic especially with Shawn Michaels. I'll give it a firm *****3/4* and another addition to possibly the greatest year ever for RAW depending on how you feel about 2000.
> 
> You guys were not lying about the Christian/McIntyre series from 2010. In that god-forsaken year of drab, it's nice to find some gems on the two main shows. *Were there any other nice matches in 2010 that are often overlooked?*


We talkin tv matches? If so:

No DQ: Rey Mysterio vs. Jack Swagger (_Smackdown 7/30_) (just boatloads of fun)
The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (_Smackdown 9/10_) (easily their best encounter in the 2009-10 series)
IC Title: Christian vs. Kofi Kingston (_Smackdown 5/14_) (maybe Kofi's best singles match?)


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...sius-ohno-vs-william-regal_sport#.UWiAE7WG3oI

still the 4th best match of the year


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> BECAUSE OF THAT GODDAMN FINISH! I felt it was too short and the ending is the most disappointing piece of shit I've seen in a long while. Orton got the spear and didn't kick out and I was like "Is that it?". Until Orton is back on top, turns heel or ANYTHING, I cannot appreciate this match properly.


And it didn't help that Reigns delivered his probably worst spear to date. Didn't look good enough imo to put Orton down, and some of the people who I was watching Mania with at the time thought the same.

And yeah, I really was hoping for a Orton heel turn. :/



Pierre McDunk said:


> I'd put JBL/Eddie and Orton/Foley above it but it's certainly violent as fuck.
> 
> As for that MNM/Londrick match...****1/4 imo. Great stuff.


I don't think I'd put Orton/Foley over it. HHH/Batista HIAC was so brutal it made it hard to watch at times, the barbed wire chair, Triple H choking Batista with that chain and repeatedly whipping him with it, there wasn't a point in Orton/Foley that I find hard to watch, and there's rarely points in wrestling that make it hard to watch, but Batista/HHH HIAC definitely has those moments.



Choke2Death said:


> I think the action and crowd for that Backlash match is actually superior to Wrestlemania XX. Only thing that puts the latter over it to me is the emotion and the perfect setting. In the grandest stage of them all, in Madison Square Garden, making the unstoppable Triple H tap out, post-match celebration with family & Eddie Guerrero. Just perfect. If the two had been combined, it might have been the ultimate perfect match for me. Going beyond 5 stars too.
> 
> @*Brye:* That tag match is awesome. It's been a while since I saw it but that's exactly why many love the Attitude Era. The atmosphere is unreal.


I'd put the action on par in both matches, but the crowd's certainly better in the Backlash match though. However the story, the stage, the emotion, and the epic moment when Benoit wins and celebrates with Eddie in the Mania match makes most prefer that match. Benoit making HBK tap to the sharpshooter in Canada in the Backlash match was a cool moment after the whole HBK/Bret screwjob in Canada thing.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm finally re-watching Wrestlemania 29 and I must say that I enjoyed Triple H/Brock Lesnar a lot more than when I watched it live. I still have the same rating for it (***1/2), but I feel much more confident in that rating than I did when I first posted my ratings for it. Brock was awesome and Triple H did fine.

The only match I have left is John Cena-Dwayne and after that I'll post my full-length review. I can't say I'm looking forward to this but whatever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You shouldn't be looking forward to it.

The Rock should be banned from ever wrestling inside of a WWE ring again :lol.

On a side note, did anybody see Carlito TRASH The Rock on Twitter earlier this week about steroid use? Talk about one piece of shit insulting another piece of shit.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Getting back to the current Mania talk..

I bought WrestleMania so I've had it for a week free on Sky Box Office to re-watch it, and I honestly haven't attempted to watch any of the matches properly again. Overall I just didn't really enjoy the show too much so I haven't had any desire to watch those matches again. The only times I've turned on the WrestleMania repeat is when I've been bored and there's nothing on TV, and even then I only have it in the background, usually on mute, while I'm on my laptop, not really paying attention to the show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have been wondering about this for the past couple of days. with me rating punk/taker at **** 3/4 why were there other matches duds compared to it ? was taker hurt during their old feud ?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Christian Louboutin said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...sius-ohno-vs-william-regal_sport#.UWiAE7WG3oI
> 
> still the 4th best match of the year












Man, what a wonderful match. A MOTYC without a doubt. I gotta start watching NXT more often.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> I have been wondering about this for the past couple of days. with me rating punk/taker at **** 3/4 why were there other matches duds compared to it ? was taker hurt during their old feud ?


Their 2009 series of matches weren't awful by any means, but they didn't reach their full potential at all. It was mainly because their matches weren't really given much time to amount to anything. Hell, I think their Hell in a Cell match only received about ten minutes. It's hard to do much in that length of time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Christian Louboutin said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...sius-ohno-vs-william-regal_sport#.UWiAE7WG3oI
> 
> still the 4th best match of the year


Out of interest, what are the three matches that you have ahead of it? It's fourth, so far, for me, too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MUCH better than the bland cover that just had Cena & Rock on it:

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/new-cover-wwe-wrestlemania-29-dvd/38688/

EDIT: Notice the urn on the spine too. Awesome touch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> And it didn't help that Reigns delivered his probably worst spear to date. Didn't look good enough imo to put Orton down, and some of the people who I was watching Mania with at the time thought the same.
> 
> And yeah, I really was hoping for a Orton heel turn. :/


Glad I'm not alone on this one. Seriously, FUCK THAT FINISH! Hope the idiot that came up with the idea of reverting Show into a full blown heel gets robbed in the streets.



> I don't think I'd put Orton/Foley over it. HHH/Batista HIAC was so brutal it made it hard to watch at times, the barbed wire chair, Triple H choking Batista with that chain and repeatedly whipping him with it, there wasn't a point in Orton/Foley that I find hard to watch, and there's rarely points in wrestling that make it hard to watch, but Batista/HHH HIAC definitely has those moments.


I think landing on a bunch of thumbtacks is much worse than a barbwire steel chair shot, since the former is stuck in your body and the latter just cuts through your skin. That said, Batista/HHH is a classic and almost 5 stars.



> I'd put the action on par in both matches, but the crowd's certainly better in the Backlash match though. However the story, the stage, the emotion, and the epic moment when Benoit wins and celebrates with Eddie in the Mania match makes most prefer that match. Benoit making HBK tap to the sharpshooter in Canada in the Backlash match was a cool moment after the whole HBK/Bret screwjob in Canada thing.


Pretty much.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> MUCH better than the bland cover that just had Cena & Rock on it:
> 
> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/new-cover-wwe-wrestlemania-29-dvd/38688/


I like the urn on the spine (Y)


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

*Wrestlemania 29 Review*​ 
*The Shield vs. Randy Orton, Sheamus, and Big Show- *This match is probably the worst match that The Shield have had in their WWE careers so far, but that isn’t an insult considering just how good the rest of their matches have been. There was a lot of stuff that I dug in this ten minute opener, such as Big Show’s chop fest on Dean Ambrose’s exposed chest after Ambrose had the audacity to try and chop Big Show back after Show had already chopped him once. I also really liked Seth Rollins’ suicide dive onto Randy Orton even though Rollins ended up smacking his head against the guard rail. Seth Rollins seems to die in almost every Shield match and it’s awesome in a good way! Big Show’s triple spear onto the entire Shield when they were about to powerbomb Sheamus was also a pretty good spot. One other thing that I must note is how they played up Big Show’s dissatisfaction at not being tagged in during the match, which would eventually lead to Show knocking out both Randy Orton and Sheamus after the match. The first tease was two minutes into the match when Randy Orton tagged in Sheamus and Big Show shrugged it off. The second tease came when Sheamus was about to tag Randy Orton, but Big Show blind tagged himself into the match. The third and final instance was when Sheamus was about to tag in Big Show, but Randy Orton tagged himself in. On a second viewing, this must have been retaliation on Orton’s part after Big Show tagged himself in earlier when Sheamus was trying to tag in Orton. The ending was nicely done as well, with Big Show refusing to break up the eventual three count since he was pissed off at Randy Orton for tagging himself in. ****1/2*​ 
*Mark Henry vs. Ryback- *This match had potential be a pretty decent big man match and at some points it was, but the overall majority of the match ended up falling flat. The opening of the match was fine with both Henry and Ryback wanting to show off their strength by basically running into each other (horrible description but whatever). Ryback would then hit Henry with some of his offense but he couldn’t take Henry off of his feet. Ryback would end up being the first one to be taken off of his feet after he came off of the ropes and ran right into Mark Henry, who flattened Ryback to audible applause from the crowd. Outside of this opening portion, this match wasn’t much to write home about. Ryback is the opposite of John Cena in the sense that he’s at his best when he’s just killing people, while John Cena is best when he’s taking a beating and ends up making a comeback. This makes me happy about a potential matchup between the two if they book it right. Anyway, the only thing worth noting about this match outside of the opening portion was the finish where Henry collapsed onto Ryback when Ryback was going for Shell Shock. This could have been much worse. **1/2*​ 
*Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler and Big E. Langston- *Am I the only one who finds it funny when the crowd chants “Yes,” yet Daniel Bryan INSISTS that the crowd chants “No!” instead during his entrance? The callback to the finish of the Sheamus/Daniel Bryan match from last year’s Wrestlemania was pretty great with Dolph Ziggler playing the role of Daniel Bryan and Daniel Bryan playing the role of Sheamus. The entire opening portion with Bryan and Ziggler was pretty good but it only lasted about a minute. Langston wasn’t awful in this match either, as he showed his strength by hitting Kane with a backbreaker three times before putting him down. The portion where Kane played the face in peril wasn’t anything worth noting, but it was the only real negative about this match outside of the somewhat botched fameasser by Ziggler onto Kane and the time this match was given (six minutes). Had this match been given about five more minutes, this could have evolved into a ***+ match, but that’s not to say that what we ended up getting wasn’t good. This was perfectly fine tag team title match. ***1/2*​ 
*Chris Jericho vs. Fandango- *Fandango’s entrance in this match was just awesome. Fandango starts dancing as soon as the bell rings, but Jericho puts that nonsense to an end and goes right on the attack. Jericho would stay on the attack for most of the match outside of a few spots where Fandango got some offense in. The best spot in the match was when Jericho went for his springboard drop kick, but Fandango caught him with a kick to the face. This was Fandango’s first offensive move (in a match) in his WWE career and it looked great. I wasn’t a fan of them basically killing Fandango’s finisher after Jericho kicked out of Fandango’s top rope leg drop, but I guess that is for the best since if he kept doing that move 330 nights a year, Fandango would end up in a wheelchair before long. The finish was somewhat botched with Jericho overshooting Fandango on the Lionsult, but it’s hard to blame Jericho here since Fandango was so close to the ropes. I actually liked the finish outside of that botch, with Fandango pinning Jericho in a small package after Jericho’s knee buckled while he was trying to put Fandango in the Walls of Jericho. Some people might have had an issue with Fandango not getting much offense in during the match, but people have to realize that this was Fandango’s first ever match and Chris Jericho is a multi-time world champion. Fandango dominating Jericho for most of the match wouldn’t have made much sense so I liked that they booked Jericho to dominate most of the match, only to fall victim to Fandango taking advantage of Jericho’s knee buckling. This was a great debut match for Fandango and after what happened on Raw Monday night, I hope he sticks around. *****​ 
*Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger- *This ended up being a fine World Heavyweight Championship match that I enjoyed more on my second viewing than my initial viewing. I enjoyed some of the stuff Swagger did to attack the leg of Del Rio, such as basically spearing the leg to take down Del Rio, as well as some of the submission counters that both men did. I didn’t like that we barely saw any arm work by Del Rio to soften Swagger up for the arm bar*. *At least Swagger TRIED to work over the leg somewhat. I also didn’t like how abrupt the ending was, with Swagger rolling into the ring after throwing Del Rio into the barricade and Del Rio immediately locking in the arm bar. My main problem was that I couldn’t get into this match at all since I couldn’t care less about either man. The crowd seemed to share this sentiment, as evident by the “We want Ziggler” chant midway through the match. Outside of that, this was fine. ***3/4*​ 
*The Undertaker vs. CM Punk- *This was awesome. This match started out great with CM Punk slapping the Undertaker a few times to try and get into his head; even perhaps to try and piss him off to the point where Undertaker gets disqualified and loses the streak. This didn’t work and Undertaker went on the attack for a few minutes until CM Punk started his control segment. Paul Heyman and his work at ringside was fantastic during this match, especially his reaction after CM Punk kicked out of the first Tombstone. Heyman attempting to sacrifice himself so Punk wouldn’t take Undertaker’s dive to the outside was also a pretty awesome moment in the match. The climax of this match was well-done, especially Punk’s kick out of the Tombstone (which I didn’t expect watching it live) and the callback to the spot in Undertaker’s match with Triple H at Wrestlemania 17 where Triple H hit Undertaker with a sledgehammer when Undertaker was attempting the Last Ride. Fast forward twelve years and instead of Triple H it was CM Punk, and instead of a sledgehammer it was the Undertaker’s urn. There were a few botches in this match but none that really hampered my enjoyment of the match. These two had an average series in 2009 and I’m happy that they finally delivered the great match that everyone knew they were capable of producing together. ******​ 
*Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar- *This was one match whose rating didn’t change on my second viewing, but I’m much more confident of this match’s rating than I was when I initially rated it (if that makes any sense). Brock’s control segment ruled, as he was throwing Triple H around like Triple H was 150 pound Spike Dudley. Brock dragging Triple H’s carcass around after he gave him a belly to belly on the outside of the ring was such a small thing that added to the beat down that Brock put on Triple H in the earlier portions of the match. Triple H’s comeback segment was fine, although it was a far cry from Brock’s awesome control segment earlier. I really liked how Triple H attempted to destroy the arm of Brock before putting him in the Kimura Lock and Brock tapping out to it would have been believable after Triple H’s assault on his arm a couple of minutes earlier. While I’m talking about the Kimura Lock, one thing I didn’t like was that Triple H put Brock in the move three times in a row. I get what they were trying to do, but it made Brock look like an idiot for allowing himself to be caught in that move three consecutive times. While I felt (and still feel) that Brock should have won, it really doesn’t bother me and doesn’t affect the rating of the match. I can see why some hate this match due to its slow pace and the result, but I really dug it. ****1/2*​ 
*The Rock vs. John Cena- *For the most part, this was terrible. The first nine minutes consisted of basically nothing but rest holds, which prompted “boring” chants from the crowd. I agree. A couple of minutes later they decided to start trading finishers, and this finisher trading stretch lasted from around the fifteen minute mark until the end of the match nine minutes later. I have no problem with finisher trading when it’s done right, but this this nine minute stretch consisted of nothing but finishers outside of a DDT and a few other moves. The only thing I can say that I liked about this match was the callbacks to their match last year, such as Rock copying Cena’s five knuckle shuffle move and getting hit with the Attitude Adjustment, which was a callback to Cena copying Rock’s People’s Elbow last year and getting hit with the Rock Bottom. Another callback that I really liked was Cena reenacting the finish to last year’s match but doing it on purpose to goad Rock into falling for it, which he did. In fact, this spot would have been a perfect ending to the match, but instead they opted to have Rock reverse the AA attempt into a Rock Bottom and the finish ended up being an anti-climactic AA.​ 
That is the problem with finisher trading, at least for me. By the time the finish does come, it ends up being anti-climactic because so many finishers have already been hit and that was the case with the finish to this match. This was the third (fourth?) AA Cena hit and it was finally the one to put Rock away. They were trying to create an epic encounter with this finishing sequence and instead of a climactic finish, the finish ended up being anti-climactic and nobody cared once Chad Patton’s hand hit the mat for the third time. **1/2*​ 
*Overall: *This show ended up being pretty good outside of the main event and Ryback/Henry. The undercard produced some solid matches (Shield Six Man Tag, Fandango/Jericho, and Hell No/Ziggler and Langston) and the “main events” ended up delivering outside of Rock/Cena II. This show lacked the “Wrestlemania Moments” that most Wrestlemanias are known for but as a wrestling show, it was good from an in ring standpoint.​


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Rah said:


> Out of interest, what are the three matches that you have ahead of it? It's fourth, so far, for me, too.


Wrestlemania XXIX – The Undertaker vs. CM Punk ****1/4
Elimination Chamber 2013 - The Shield vs. Ryback, John Cena & Seamus ****1/4
Raw 25/02/2013 - CM Punk vs. John Cena ****1/4


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I think landing on a bunch of thumbtacks is much worse than a barbwire steel chair shot, since the former is stuck in your body and the latter just cuts through your skin. That said, Batista/HHH is a classic and almost 5 stars.


I wasn't actually debating what was worse, I just think HHH/Batista was more brutal. The story they told was more brutal, some of the spots you would never see like the barbed wire chair in the WWE. And when Triple H was choking Batista with that huge chain it was almost hard to watch. 

HHH/Batista is on another level of brutal for me. Orton/Foley is more comparable with Edge/Foley imo.

Both matches are classics no doubt though. (Y)


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Vader vs Ken Shamrock No Holds Barred In Your House 15: A Cold Day in Hell (1997) ***1/2


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Cold Day In Hell is the most underrated PPV of all time, great card. HHH vs. Flash Funk is a fun match, Mankind vs. Rock in their first encounter (I believe) and of course Taker vs. Austin..one of many awesome matches both men had that year.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Gave Taker/HHH from WM 28 a rewatch and found it kinda slow and boring to my surprise. Just feel that both 27 and 28 encounters are over-rated like fuck, anyone else agree? I keep changing my mind on 28 but I really don't enjoy watching it anymore


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Cold Day In Hell is the most underrated PPV of all time, great card. HHH vs. Flash Funk is a fun match, Mankind vs. Rock in their first encounter (I believe) and of course Taker vs. Austin..one of many awesome matches both men had that year.



I should check out those matches when I get a chance.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

My dad's been wearing this CM Punk shirt all day. :datass


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Gave Taker/HHH from WM 28 a rewatch and found it kinda slow and boring to my surprise. Just feel that both 27 and 28 encounters are over-rated like fuck, anyone else agree? I keep changing my mind on 28 but I really don't enjoy watching it anymore


I don't like either HHH/Taker match. I think Taker is severely limited and the brawls weren't as enjoyable for me...


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I wasn't home so I DVR'd Smackdown. Got home and realized Sy Fy's HD channel was out so no Smackdown. I really wanted to see Ziggler's first segment as champion.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@dark church it was decent, he sounded like he need a cough drop the whole time but it was good in my book


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fun y2j/ziggler match on sd


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I almost missed Ziggler's segment at the beginning. I had a crazy ass week so I fell asleep and missed the first 4 minutes of the show.


----------



## Black Jesus (Apr 7, 2013)

HWRP said:


> Gave Taker/HHH from WM 28 a rewatch and found it kinda slow and boring to my surprise. Just feel that both 27 and 28 encounters are over-rated like fuck, anyone else agree? I keep changing my mind on 28 but I really don't enjoy watching it anymore


27 is certainly overrated. I thought 28 was excellent though.

Amazing storytelling, good spots. Only problem I had was that they didn't use the cell much. But hey, nobody does anyway.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Cold Day In Hell is the most underrated PPV of all time, great card. HHH vs. Flash Funk is a fun match, Mankind vs. Rock in their first encounter (I believe) and of course Taker vs. Austin..one of many awesome matches both men had that year.


Flash Funk is so underrated. Such a gifted wrestler.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HWRP said:


> Gave Taker/HHH from WM 28 a rewatch and found it kinda slow and boring to my surprise. Just feel that both 27 and 28 encounters are over-rated like fuck, anyone else agree? I keep changing my mind on 28 but I really don't enjoy watching it anymore


I don't necessarily think they're bad, but both matches are obnoxious with the storytelling looking back on them. And I don't mean that they're bad in storytelling department. They're some of the best storytelling matches in the business, but they lend themselves to that way too much that it took away from other elements of the match. Taker/HBK WM26 was a perfect example of a match that uses a perfect amount of storytelling without over-doing, and tbh same for Taker/Punk. But most importantly those two matches didn't sacrifice pacing and/or become strict finisher fests to tell their stories like the Taker/HHH matches did. I mean for WM27 they jumped into finishers less than half-way through the match I believe, and between those finishers the time just moves so slow as they set-up for the next one. And WM28 it felt like half the match was HHH telling Shawn to end the match, part of the match after that was Taker/HHH trading finishers and then the last half is Taker beating HHH down and finishing him. Again, sacrificing workrate for storytelling. Some people eat it up. I can't to the level they do. I appreciate it and it's why I put the WM27 match at ***1/2 and the WM28 match at ****, but when they're talked about as two of the best streak matches, Taker matches, even HHH matches... it makes me laugh tbh. 

You know, and while we're on the topic of Taker/HHH, I wanna mention something. The matches get pretty damn slow and I used to think it was because of Taker and his never-ending nagging injuries. Heck, maybe for WM27 it was. But after watching the two Brock/HHH matches, Punk/HHH NOC, and Taker/Punk WM29 I'm beginning to think it was always more HHH than anything else. Where the former matches are fairly slow (Punk/HHH though I do need to re-watch), Taker/Punk maintains a fairly quick pace throughout, and it wasn't all Punk either as Taker was keeping up. Either HHH is in even worse condition than Taker, he doesn't give a fuck about picking it up for Mania as much as Taker, or he's obsessed with DAT STORYTELLING that he doesn't care how slow he has to go to get that across. I don't know, but it's something to think about.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Sids_chickenleg said:


> Flash Funk is so underrated. Such a gifted wrestler.


Damn right he is.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Best PPV Matches of 2012 - Disc One


**WWE Championship - Special Referee: John Laurinaitis 
*CM Punk (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - *** 1/2
_Royal Rumble

_*World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber
*Daniel Bryan (c) vs. Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella - ** 3/4
_Elimination Chamber_

*Hell in a Cell - Special Referee: Shawn Michaels
*The Undertaker vs. Triple H - ****
_Wrestlemania 28


__- _Punk vs. Ziggler is so much fun. Awesome pace all the way through with some seriously awesome counters (GTS into the Fame-Asser :mark: ). I think everyone knew Dolph had no chance of winning since the match was really based around the Punk/Laurinaitis story, but they did a really great job of giving him some close nearfalls & the crowd was HOT from bell to bell. Big (Y) from me.

- Elimination Chamber match wasn't exactly bad but it certainly wasn't great either. Looking at who was involved in the match you can clearly tell it's not gonna be the best thing in the world & frankly just about nothing of much significance happened (bar the double suplex to Show) up until Big Show breaking into Bryan's pod. Cody's short lived greatness (especially those DISASTER KICKS) was (Y) and quite honestly Barrett didn't stink the joint up as I expected. Him & Bryan had some good moments, how bout that flying knee from D-Bry? FUCK me man. Yeah, the stuff with Santino is fun and all but it's just not something I wanna see on a 'Best Of' set, and besides, Santino would lay around for 5 or 10 minutes, sneak in a pin, get murdered again and repeat the sequence. It's gonna be hard for me to _truly _enjoy a 34 minute Wade Barrett match. This should've been replaced with the RAW version or something from Extreme Rules.

- The End of an Era match is a really tough one for me. First let me start with the positives: The callbacks. The Hell's Gate spot where Hunter is trying to grab the sledgehammer is incredible. The nearfalls. Taker's kickout from Sweet Chin Music & the Pedigree was WOW. The intensity and brutality. Those chair shots were just fucking disgusting. Taker's back was destroyed & somehow Hunter's eye was too. Shawn's performance as ref was fantastic, he truly didn't know how to feel or what to do. Finally, the emotion. The match truly is a draining, all out thrill ride. Now let me focus on the nagatives: Overkill. It felt REALLY long and seemingly like it would just NEVER end at times. I'm not sure how I can really portray this but I thought the beginning of the match & a good chunk of the first half just wasn't as intense as it should've been. Considering what we saw to kick off their match from the previous year, it seemed sort of pedestrian despite all the punches thrown & the use of the steel steps (those spots were really predictable though). That's about all I can come up with right now as I'm getting pretty sleepy. I'll actually rate this match higher than their 27 encounter, but in terms of enjoyment & significance I personally prefer the 27 match. The storytelling & intensity in that is just flat out amazing & OMG at the Tombstone nearfall. BUT, when it comes to sheer match quality & ratings, I have both the Punk & Edge Streak matches over these HHH encounters. I'm rambling now, who cares. Wrapped it up. ​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^ Nice read, man. 

WM 17 is playing on this site I just tuned into. Near the end of Vince/Shane street fight. So much fuckery here. Vince talking shit to Linda, Linda coming out of her "sedated" state, SHANE WITH DAT COAST TO COAST.

This card was super stacked. AFTER Vince/Shane, we still had TLC II, Trips/Taker, and Rock/Austin.

Motorhead playing Trips to the ring is AWESOME, though their performance at Mania 21 might be better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Edge vs. Kane Last Man Standing from I believe 1/7/11 is a TON of fun. The Trending Superstar 4-way from the end of 2011 (Bryan vs. Rhodes vs. Ryder vs. Ziggler) is also fantastic. Jericho vs. Kingston & DX vs. JeriShow from October of '09 are definitely good. 12 Man Tag from RAW 10/3/11. Christian vs. Kane from Smackdown 6/24/11 turns into a tag match and both outings are enjoyable.
> 
> EDIT: Mysterio vs. Swagger No DQ from SD '10 is a total blast.


Kane vs Edge didn't hold up at all. Watched it about a month ago and it is so incredible bleh.  I loved it on the original airing. Don't know why my brain thought it was lots of fun then. It tricked me.

Four way match from 2011 Slammys is fun. I wouldn't call it great, but it was an enjoyable contest. I'm never one to complain about commercial breaks during a match, although having two during said four way hurt it. Don't know why the company decided to suck up so much of the action to not even be shown. Bastards.



WOOLCOCK said:


> :mark:
> 
> Absolutely knew you'd love it. Glad to see the recommendation and pimping was echoed & trumped by yourself. Be stoked if they go down the Regal/Ambrose path and book a rematch to conclude the program.


Dude, when Hero popped his finger back into place, good lord I couldn't contain my excitement. :mark:

We can only be so lucky to get a rematch in the coming weeks/months. At least Cesaro vs PAC is on the horizon. Five minutes those two can produce something wildly entertaining. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Booker t vs Kurt Angle for the WCW championship- Smackdown 07/26/01*​
This took place during the InVasion angle where things were starting to heat up during this angle. Booker T is the WCW champion and also a heel heading into this match whereas Kurt Angle is a fan-favorite. Before the match starts, Angle and Booker T stare each other down. Booker T then taunts the crowd, flaunting the WCW title around before giving the ref the belt. The match begins and both men lock up. Kurt Angle gets the upper-hand on Booker T, hammering away punches on Booker. Kurt Angle then gives Booker T a back-body drop and continues to get the upper-hand on Booker. Kurt Angle quickly goes for an Angle Lock but Booker T touches the ropes as fast as he could. Booker T escapes out of the ring with Kurt Angle going outside the ring as well. Booker T gives Angle a kick to the face, grabbing Angle by the head and attempting to hit Angle's head on the announce table but Angle reverses it and hits Booker T's head on the announce table instead. The match escalates into a beat-down with Kurt Angle trowing Booker T all over the announce table. Kurt Angle throws Booker T back inside the ring.

As Angle heads into the ring, Booker T tries to go for a clothesline but ends up getting a German suplex instead. Kurt Angle goes on the top rope for a Moonsault but ends up missing. Booker T goes for a cover but Angle kicks out at 2. It's now Booker who is in control of the match. Booker T throws Kurt Angle outside of the ring. He gives Angle a couple of back-handed chops to the chest and then throws him inside the barricade. Now the match is starting to get a little more intense. Booker hammers away on Angle with kicks and back-handed chops but gets thrown outside of the barricade. Booker T goes back to getting the upper-hand on Angle, throwing him into steel steps. Booker T throws Angle back inside the ring.

Booker T gives Angle a knee-drop following it up with a pin but Angle kicks out at 2. Booker T then goes for a submission, putting pressure on Angle's neck. Angle is able to break out of the hold and is able able to fight off Booker T but ends up getting a Spinebuster from Booker T. Booker goes for yet another cover but Kurt Angle kicks out at 2. The fans are chanting Angle's name and Angle is able to fight back to get the upper-hand in the match. Kurt Angle goes for a clothesline on Booker. Angle then gives Booker a Belly-to-Belly suplex. Kurt Angle covers Booker T for a pinfall but Booker T kicks out at 2. The fans are really invested in this match at this point and so am I. Kurt Angle picks Booker T up and places him on the top rope. He throws punches at Booker T and goes for a Superplex off the top rope.

All of sudden, the Alliance runs toward the ring before referee Earl Hebner can stop them. Team WWF arrives and we got ourselves a good ole fashion brawl with Booker T and Kurt Angle still down and out in the ring. Kurt Angle crawls over to Booker T to pin him but referee Earl Hebner is still outside the ring trying to stop the brawl between Team WWF and the Alliance. Chris Kanyon strikes Kurt Angle with a chair from behind and escapes from outside of the ring which takes Angle down. Team WWF and the Alliance continue their brawl until WWF officials run down the ring to stop the chaos. Earl Hebner finally gets inside the ring. Booker T covers Kurt Angle for a pinfall but Kurt Angle kicks out. Booker T and Kurt Angle start to go back-and-forth with one another, showing no signs of giving up and hammer away on each other. Booker T hits Kurt Angle with a spinning kick but that doesn't put Kurt Angle out for the pinfall. Damn this match is exciting. Booker T ends up knocking out referee Earl Hebner. Booker T tries to hit a scissors kick on Angle but Angle reverses it and goes for the Angle slam. Angle takes off his singlet and applies the Angle lock on Booker T but here comes the Texas Rattlesnake Stone Cold Steve Austin who runs down to the ring and gives Kurt Angle a Stone Cold Stunner. Booker T who is happy about the Austin interference, does a Spinaroonie. Booker T walks towards Kurt Angle but ends up in another Angle lock with Angle making Booker T tap. Kurt Angle wins the WCW and the crowd goes nuts. 

Awesome match. The back-and-forth between the two was really exciting and it really had me on the edge of my seat. The whole Team WWF and Alliance brawl along with the ref bump was a little overbooked but it was fine since it showed how chaotic the match was considering the InVasion angle at the time. Kurt Angle winning the WCW championship was great to see here. Angle was really being elevated during the InVasion angle and rightfully so since he was consistently putting on incredible matches. A really fun match that I highly recommend giving a watch. *Rating: ***3/4 *


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Dat match. :datass

Dat MOTN. :datass

Dat 9/10 match. :datass


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

That William Regal vs. Kassius Ohno match was fucking awesome. One of my favourite matches so far this year, it really is awesome and you should go watch it now. Regal is the shit, I'm glad to still be able to see him in the ring. He's still great, I almost would say he should be on Raw, but I like him better where he's at. His feuds with younger guys like Ambrose and Ohno are amazing, in and out of the ring. I loved when he said to "ask his children to forgive him" for what he was about to do to Kassius Ohno. Great build, great match, you don't see that on Raw or SD as much as you should lately. 



HayleySabin said:


> At least Cesaro vs PAC is on the horizon. Five minutes those two can produce something wildly entertaining. Fingers crossed.


As crazy as it sounds I could see Cesaro dropping the title. It would be the perfect way to bring Neville up, and it seems like Vince has it out for Cesaro for some reason so I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. They could have a nice feud for the US title and actually make it relevant possibly. I would love to see those two in a long feud with a PPV payoff.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Wrestlemania XXIX – The Undertaker vs. CM Punk ****1/4
> *Elimination Chamber 2013 - The Shield vs. Ryback, John Cena & Seamus ****1/4*
> Raw 25/02/2013 - CM Punk vs. John Cena ****1/4


I must be the sole guy to thoroughly dislike this match, then. I've seen it praised EVERYWHERE.

edit: read that as the Elimination Chamber match by mistake. Loved the Shield match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker list moved forward one page.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent list, something I've gotta do myself tbh, been kinda wanting to make sort of Best of Taker list for ages now, gave me some ideas thanks.

Personally, id choose either WM match with HBK slightly over the HIAC match, not knocking that of course, its magical, just my opinion.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That's a very good list. I like that you only used one match per superstar, as that meant a lot of different choices to what you normally see on Taker lists.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Spoiler: My Top 45 Undertaker Matches (1-on-1 matches and each opponent is only to be listed once)



*(****3/4 - *****)*
1.) vs. Shawn Michaels - Bad Blood 1997 - HIAC 
2.) vs. Kurt Angle (for the WWE Championship) - Smackdown 2003 
3.) vs. Triple H - WM27 - No Holds Barred
4.) vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship) - No Mercy 2002 - HIAC
5.) vs. Edge - Summerslam 2008 - HIAC
*(****1/4 - ****1/2)*
6.) vs. Batista (for the WHC) - WM23
7.) vs. Punk - WM29
8.) vs. Orton - Armageddon 2005 - HIAC
9.) vs. Mankind (for the WWE Championship) - The Revenge Of The Taker 1997
10.) vs. Austin (for the WWE Championship) - A Cold Day In Hell 1997
11.) vs. Jeff Hardy (for the WWE Championship) - RAW 2002 - Ladder Match
13.) vs. Ric Flair - WM18 - No Disqualification Match
12.) vs. Bret Hart (for the WWE Championship) - Summerslam 1997 
*(***3/4 - ****)*
14.) vs. Kane - WM14 
15.) vs. John Cena - Smackdown 6/22/2004
16.) vs. Rey Mysterio (for the WHC) - Royal Rumble 2010
17.) vs. Big Show - Cyber Sunday 2008 - Last Man Standing Match
18.) vs. Mr. Kennedy - Survivor Series 2007 - First Blood Match
19.) vs. Vader (for the WWE Championship) - Canadian Stampede 1997
20.) vs. Heidenreich - Survivor Series 2004
*(***1/4 - ***1/2)*
21.) vs. The Great Khali - Smackdown 8/15/2006 - Last Man Standing Match
22.) vs. RVD (for the Hardcore Championship) - Vengeance 2002 - Hardcore Match 
23.) vs. JBL - No Mercy 2004 - Last Ride Match
24.) vs. Finlay - Smackdown 3/6/2007
25.) vs. Diesel - WM12
26.) vs. The Rock - No Way Out 2002
27.) vs. Chris Jericho (for the WHC) - Smackdown 11/3/2009
28.) vs. Vince McMahon - Survivor Series 2003 - Buried Alive Match
29.) vs. Booker T (for the WHC) - Smackdown 7/31/2006
30.) vs. Yokozuna (for the WWE Championship) - Royal Rumble 1994 - Casket Match
31.) vs. Hulk Hogan (for the WWE Championship) - Judgment Day 2002 
32.) vs. Matt Hardy - WWE Superstars 4/13/2009
33.) vs. Shelton Benjamin - Smackdown 1/13/2009
34.) vs. Festus - Smackdown 4/8/2008
35.) vs. Mark Henry - Smackdown 4/4/2006
36.) vs. Maven - Smackdown 2/5/2006 - Hardcore Match
*(**3/4 - ***)*
37.) vs. Jack Swagger - RAW 4/19/2010
38.) vs. Test - Summerslam 2002
39.) vs. Owen Hart - RAW 4/29/1996
40.) vs. MVP - Smackdown 11/28/2006
41.) vs. Psycho Sid (for the WWE Championship) - WM13
42.) vs. A-Train - Summerslam 2003
43.) vs. Luther Reigns - No Way Out 2005
44.) vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts - WM8
45.) vs. Ken Shamrock - Backlash 1999


Your viewing, feedback and responses are greatly appreciated.

Decided to move this post one page forward. So it could be seen by more members.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't see anyone liking the first Heidenreich match over Undertaker vs Finlay. Blown away by it, actually.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Didn't see anyone liking the first Heidenreich match over Undertaker vs Finlay. Blown away by it, actually.


Well, It's all personal preference. It's funny that you mention "blown away", I was feeling just that when i watched the first Heidenreich match. The story of him being too crazy to be scared of Taker and the possibility of his deranged mindset triumphing over Taker's perseverance puts it above the Finaly match. 

They both were pretty great though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly, I'd put up more of a stink with the Bret Hart & WM 27 matches more than anything. Especially the Bret Hart match. Gosh, it puts me to sleep every time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Finlay is worth it for this moment alone


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## DA (Nov 22, 2012)

Man, this thread is fantastic. Love reading it. (Y)

(Just thought I should say it 8*D )


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler from Royal Rumble 2012 is like the worst out of their series of matches. They had much better matches on RAW imo.

Like this:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Can't recall that match so will check it out later. Thanks for posting it. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's good, despite some sloppy points. Fact it doesn't take away much should tell you how quality of a contest it is.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Rumble match suffered from John Laurinatis constantly interrupting, and the feud being clear as day between Punk and Laurinaitis so Ziggler was a complete non-factor so you knew he had no chance of winning. The match could of also used a few more minutes...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never understood the Johnny Ace complaint. I forgot he was out there when I watched the match, tbhayley. Simply put, it isn't a glorious match. Only pretty good with their bouts on TV trumping it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Man, Taker/Trips from SD in 2008 is such a great platform and example for what Trips and Taker should of produced at WM28. Good mix of efficient pace, pure wrestling and teasing psychology.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Kane vs Edge didn't hold up at all. Watched it about a month ago and it is so incredible bleh.  I loved it on the original airing. Don't know why my brain thought it was lots of fun then. It tricked me.





Nostalgia said:


> The Rumble match suffered from John Laurinatis constantly interrupting, and the feud being clear as day between Punk and Laurinaitis so Ziggler was a complete non-factor so you knew he had no chance of winning. The match could of also used a few more minutes...


But, BUT... I like both a whole lot. 

I can see what you're saying about Johnny Boy, it annoyed me at times but I think they made up for it with Ziggler's nearfall. Plus I just thought it was fun city from bell to bell.

If I feel the same way about Kane/Edge when I watch it again, I'm gonna be PISSED. One of my TV favorites from 2011.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Man, Taker/Trips from SD in 2008 is such a great platform and example for what Trips and Taker should of produced at WM28. Good mix of efficient pace, pure wrestling and teasing psychology.


Have you a link to that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch Kane vs Edge asap and find out. The wheelchair spot live was good. On the second viewing it was so cheesy & reminds you of their horrid program, haha.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@zep81

http://phenommark.xanga.com/videos/a0dd3943984/

Enjoy!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks very much.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 21st November 2011:*

I began to recall this match a little the further into it I got, and I definitely thought more of it this time around. A very nice technical opening between the two, with neither man really getting on top. Ziggler grounds Punk with a few submissions for a while, before Punk attempts to come back with his patented knee to the face in the corner. Ziggler moves out of the way and Punk takes a heavy bump to the outside. After returning from commercial, the match then begins to really step it up. There's a great sequence where Punk goes for the GTS, only for it to be countered into a sleeper hold. Punk eventually recovers from it, and picks Ziggler back up with him still on his back and attempts the GTS again, only for Ziggler to counter into a roll up. Awesome sequence. It's back and forth from there, with Punk hitting a vicious looking knee/bulldog combo, and Ziggler hitting a beautiful dropkick and suplex. One small fault is probably the ending, where Ziggler goes for the Fameasser, and Punk attempts to counter. It looks as if it was supposed to be a direct counter into the GTS, but the weight didn't hold so Punk hits a sloppy powerbomb instead. He then hurries Ziggler back to his feet and hits the GTS for the win.

Much better than I remember, some awesome counters and these two have great chemistry together. I'll rate this the same as their Rumble 2012 match, but not sure which I prefer. 

****3/4*


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/HHH SD 2008 - ***3/4,very good TV match.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> *CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 21st November 2011:*
> 
> I began to recall this match a little the further into it I got, and I definitely thought more of it this time around. A very nice technical opening between the two, with neither man really getting on top. Ziggler grounds Punk with a few submissions for a while, before Punk attempts to come back with his patented knee to the face in the corner. Ziggler moves out of the way and Punk takes a heavy bump to the outside. After returning from commercial, the match then begins to really step it up. There's a great sequence where Punk goes for the GTS, only for it to be countered into a sleeper hold. Punk eventually recovers from it, and picks Ziggler back up with him still on his back and attempts the GTS again, only for Ziggler to counter into a roll up. Awesome sequence. It's back and forth from there, with Punk hitting a vicious looking knee/bulldog combo, and Ziggler hitting a beautiful dropkick and suplex. One small fault is probably the ending, where Ziggler goes for the Fameasser, and Punk attempts to counter. It looks as if it was supposed to be a direct counter into the GTS, but the weight didn't hold so Punk hits a sloppy powerbomb instead. He then hurries Ziggler back to his feet and hits the GTS for the win.
> 
> ...


Finally someone's discussing this match. I thought it was a pretty damn great match imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Vengeance 2004 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit (World Heavyweight Championship)*

So, for the first time we get HHH vs Benoit one on one for the World Title. After Benoit briefly taunts The Game with the title belt, we're underway with some very smooth chain wrestling. Impressive by both guys. Triple H begins to get on top by using his bigger frame and strength to overpower Benoit. He performs a nice backbreaker before Benoit counters with a suplex, before sending HHH to the outside and whipping him into the steps. Benoit then climbs to the top but misses with the diving headbutt. This allows Triple H to take control and he repeatedly whips Benoit sternum first into the turnbuckle, which Benoit sells expertly. HHH continues this offense with an abdominal stretch and two release front suplexes. Excellent control period here and HHH working on Benoit's sternum/chest area is smart as he wants to set him up for the Pedigree. This is also a similar opening to their No Mercy 2000 match (one I really love) with HHH trying to prove he's better than Benoit by out-wrestling him initially.

After working on that area for a while, HHH finally goes to hit the Pedigree, but Benoit counters into the Sharpshooter. HHH sells well and eventually gets to the ropes. Benoit hits some chops, followed by a set of German suplexes and now he's right back in this one. HHH is knocked to the outside and Benoit hits a suicide dive, and almost flies into the crowd. The crowd chant "holy shit!" and rightly so, Benoit taking a huge bump there. After rolling The Game back into the ring and not going for the countout win due to being a "fighting champion" as J.R frequently says, HHH 'inadvertently' knocks the referee down. Almost immediately, he calls for Eugene to come out and he does.

Now, so far this match had been going really well, but of course at the time we all knew Eugene would be involved somehow and his involvement hurts the match for me. He was a major part of the storyline so it made total sense to involve him, but I really wanted to see Benoit/HHH one on one for the world title with a proper finish. Anyway:

Benoit locks in the Crossface, and yells repeatedly to Eugene to "get the ref!". HHH taps but Eugene didn't get the ref, and Benoit is pissed and knocks Eugene off the apron. The Game takes advantage and hits a great Pedigree (seriously, Benoit took the best Pedigrees). Eugene does get the ref this time but it's only a long two count. Triple H retrieves a chair but Eugene stops him using it. This time Benoit takes advantage and rams the chair into HHH's face. Evolution arrive and Benoit takes them out, before HHH hits a low blow. Now Eugene has the chair and doesn't know who to take out with. I do really like this moment with the hot crowd begging Eugene to take out HHH with it. Eugene is confused, but now Benoit is up and they tussle over the chair. Benoit lets go and Eugene accidently takes out Triple H with the chair. Benoit rolls him up for the victory.

Until Eugene arrived this match was very good and was heading to something similar to their great 2000 match, but the drawn out screwy finish definitely hurts it. There is some good bits at the end, but this whole match was really here just to set up HHH vs Eugene for Summerslam. Obviously HHH and Benoit worked very well together up until that point, and HHH's control period, combined with Benoit's great selling was the high point.

Opinions and stars for this match?

****1/2*

Only one match in this entry as next up (tomorrow hopefully) it's HHH and Benoit in a 60 minute iron man match for the World Title. Haven't seen that in ages so should be a lot of fun. 



Spoiler:  So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Vengeance 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


​


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Finally finished watching the whole 2001 year 



Spoiler: Dem 2001 Stars~!



Wrestlemania X-Seven - WWF World Heavyweight Championship: The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin *****
Summerslam 2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle ****3/4
Smackdown 05/31/01 - WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit ****3/4
Raw Is War 05/21/2001 - WWF World Tag Team Championship: Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin & Triple H (w/ Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) ****3/4
Royal Rumble 2001 - ladder match for the WWF Intercontinental Championship: Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho ****3/4
No Way Out 2001 - 3 Stages of Hell: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H ****3/4
Royal Rumble 2001 - Rumble Match ****3/4
Smackdown 05/24/2001 - TLC III for the World Tag Team Championship: The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. Two-Man Canadian Violence (Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit) ****1/2
Survior Series - Classic Survivor Series Match: Team WWF (The Rock, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker, Kane & The Big Show) vs. The Alliance (Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Booker T, Rob Van Dam & Shane McMahon) ****1/2
No Mercy 2001 - WCW World Championship: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho ****1/4
King of the Ring 2001 - Triple Threat Match For The WWF Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho **** - ****1/4
Wrestlemania X-Seven - Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match: WWF World Tag Team Titles: The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian ****1/4
No Way Out 2001 - Intercontinental Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. X-Pac ****
No Way Out 2001 - WWF Heavyweight Championship: Kurt Angle vs. The Rock ****
Raw Is War 01/08/2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Title: Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ****
Raw 11/05/2001 - WCW World Championship: Chris Jericho vs. The Rock ****
RAW Is War 06/11/2001 - Steel Cage Match: Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle ****
Raw Is War 06/18/2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin & Dudley Boyz vs. Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit & Spike Dudley ***3/4
Raw Is War 05/28/2001 - WWF World Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin (w/ Vince McMahon) vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
Vengeance 2001 - World Heavyweight Championship: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho ***1/2 - ***3/4
Vengeance 2001 - Hardcore Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker ***1/2 - ***3/4
Smackdown 02/15/2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
Royal Rumble 2001 - WWF Heavyweight Championship: Kurt Angle vs. Triple H ***1/2
Raw Is War 03/12/2001 - Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero ***1/2
Smackdown 04/05/2001 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Triple H ***1/2
Smackdown 11/01/2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker ***1/2
Royal Rumble 2001 - WWF Tag Team Championship: Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz ***1/2
Raw Is War 03/12/2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Title: The Rock vs. Kurt Angle ***1/2
Backlash 2001 - WWF Heavyweight Championship, Intercontinental Championship & Tag Team Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin & Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) vs. The Undertaker & Kane ***1/2
No Mercy 2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam ***1/2
Summerslam 2001 - WCW World Championship: The Rock vs. Booker T w/ Shane "Young Simba" McMahon ***1/2
Backlash 2001 - Hardcore Championship: Rhyno vs. Raven ***1/2
Backlash 2001 - 30 Minute Ultimate Submission Match: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
King of the Ring 2001 - WWF vs. WCW/Street Fight: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle ***1/2
Judgment Day 2001 - Chain Match for the Intercontinental Championship: Triple H (w/Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley) vs. Kane ***1/2
Raw Is War 02/19/2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin & The Rock vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit ***1/4
Raw Is War 05/14/2001 - Edge & Christian vs Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho ***1/4
RAW Is War 06/04/2001 - WWF World Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho ***1/4
Smackdown 09//27/2001 - WWF Hardcore Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho ***1/4
Smackdown 11/15/2001 - Chris Jericho & The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin & Kurt Angel ***1/4
Smackdown 06/14/2001 - Edge & Christian vs Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho ***1/4
Smackdown 02/08/2001 - The Hardy Boyz vs. Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn ***1/4
Raw Is War 08/12/2001 - The Rock & Chris Jericho vs. Booker T & Rhyno ***1/4
Smackdown 01/04/2001 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle ***1/4
Raw Is War 04/16/2001 - Chris Benoit vs. William Regal ***1/4
Wrestlemania X-Seven - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit ***1/4
Smackdown 07/26/2001 - WCW World Championship: Kurt Angle vs. Booker T ***1/4
RAW 05/07/2001 - Steel Cage Match: Chris Jericho vs. William Regal ***1/4
Raw 04/02/2001 - Steel Cage Match For The WWF World Heavyweight Title: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock ***1/4
Raw Is War 04/23/2001 - Steve Austin, Triple H, Edge & Christian vs. The Undertaker, Kane & The Hardys ***1/4
Raw Is War 07/30/2001 - WCW World Championship: Kurt Angle vs. Booker T ***1/4
Smackdown – 11/29/2001 – Strap Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. William Regal ***1/4
Smackdown 09/27/2001 - WWF Tag Team Championship: The Dudley Boyz vs. The Rock & Kurt Angle ***1/4
Wrestlemania X-Seven - Street Fight: Vince McMahon vs. Shane McMahon ***1/4
Survior Series - Championship Unification Match inside a Steel Cage: WCW Tag Team Champions the Dudley Boyz (w/Stacy Keibler) vs. WWF Tag Team Champions The Hardy Boyz *** - ***1/4
Smackdown 03/01/2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle ***
Raw Is War 02/05/2001 - WWF World Tag Team Championships: The Dudley Boyz vs. The Undertaker & Kane ***
"Xtreme" Smackdown 02/01/2001 - WWF World Heavyweight Championship: Kurt Angle vs. The Rock vs. Triple H ***
"Xtreme" Smackdown 02/01/2001 - Tables Match for the WWF World Tag Team Championships: The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz ***
Raw Is War 02/05/2001 - WWF Intercontinential Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy ***
Smackdown 03/15/2001 - No Disqualification Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle ***
RAW 09/17/2001 - Chris Jericho & Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin & Rob Van Dam ***
Smackdown 02/15/2001 - The Rock vs. Triple H ***
Smackdown 06/21/2001 - WWF Tag Team Championships: The Dudley Boyz vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho ***
RAW 12/10/2001 - Steel Cage Match for the WWF Undisputed Championship: Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho ***
Raw 10/22/2001 - WWF Hardcore Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. The Big Show ***
Raw Is War 01/01/2001 - #1 Contender’s Qualifying Match: The Rock vs. Kane ***
Smackdown 01/18/2001 - Steve Austin, The Rock & The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle, Kane & Rikishi ***
Summerslam 2001 - Intercontinental Championship: Lance Storm vs. Edge ***
Raw Is War 04/16/2001 - Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle ***
Raw Is War 03/05/2001 - Stone Cold Steve Austin & The Rock vs. Kurt Angle & Triple H ***
Raw Is War 05/28/2001 - Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno ***
Smackdown 08/23/2001 – World Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho ***
Smackdown 12/13/2001 - The Rock & Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho & The Undertaker ***
Raw 10/22/2001 - WWF Tag Team Championship: The Dudley Boyz vs. The Rock & Chris Jericho ***
Smackdown 11/01/01 - WWF Tag Team Championship: The Rock & Chris Jericho vs. Booker T & Test ***
Smackdown 04/26/2001 - Duchess of Queensbury Rules: Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle & William Regal ***
Raw Is War 04/16/2001 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H ***
Smackdown 10/04/2001 - Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam ***
Smackdown 11/01/2001 - WCW U.S. Championship: Kurt Angle vs. Kane ***
Raw 10/22/2001 - WCW U.S. Championship: Rhyno vs. Kurt Angle ***
Smackdown 04/26/2001 - WWF European Title: Eddie Guerrero vs. Matt Hardy ***
Raw Is War 07/09/2001 - WCW World Championship: Booker T vs. Kurt Angle ***
Smackdown 05/17/2001 - Eddie Guerrero & The Hardy Boyz w/Lita vs. Jerry Lynn, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn w/Terri ***
RAW 07/16/2001 - WCW World Championship: Booker T w/ Shane McMahon vs. Chris Jericho ***
Smackdown 12/20/2001 - WWF Undisputed Championship: Chris Jericho vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle ***
Summerslam 2001 - Chris Jericho vs. Rhyno ***
Raw Is War 04/09/2001 - Intergender Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin, Triple H & Stephanie McMahon vs. The Hardy Boyz & Lita ***
Judgment Day 2001 - #1 Contenders Tag Team Turmoil ***
Summerslam 2001 - Ladder match for the Hardcore Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Jeff Hardy ***
Wrestlemania X-Seven - WWF Hardcore Title: Raven vs. The Big Show vs. Kane ***
No Way Out 2001 - Stephanie McMahon-Helmsley vs. Trish Stratus ***
Smackdown 04/12/2001 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy **3/4
Raw Is War 01/22/2001 - The Rock & Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit & The Big Show **3/4
Wrestlemania X-Seven - Intercontinental Title: Chris Jericho vs. William Regal **3/4
Judgment Day 2001 - No Holds Barred for the WWF Heavyweight Championship: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker **3/4
Raw Is War 01/29/2001 - #1 Contender’s Match: The Rock vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho vs. The Big Show **3/4
Backlash 2001 - Triple Threat match for the European Championship: Matt Hardy vs. Christian vs. Eddie Guerrero **3/4
Smackdown 07/19/2001 - Chris Jericho vs. Diamond Dallas Page **3/4
Smackdown 07/19/2001 - The Undertaker, Kane & Tajiri vs. The Dudley Boyz & Tazz **3/4


WHAT?


----------



## Len Hughes Presents (Jul 6, 2007)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Only one match in this entry as next up (tomorrow hopefully) it's HHH and Benoit in a 60 minute iron man match for the World Title. Haven't seen that in ages so should be a lot of fun.


Just about to watch this, funny enough.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Gamblor said:


> You know, and while we're on the topic of Taker/HHH, I wanna mention something. The matches get pretty damn slow and I used to think it was because of Taker and his never-ending nagging injuries. Heck, maybe for WM27 it was. But after watching the two Brock/HHH matches, Punk/HHH NOC, and Taker/Punk WM29 I'm beginning to think it was always more HHH than anything else. Where the former matches are fairly slow (Punk/HHH though I do need to re-watch), Taker/Punk maintains a fairly quick pace throughout, and it wasn't all Punk either as Taker was keeping up. Either HHH is in even worse condition than Taker, he doesn't give a fuck about picking it up for Mania as much as Taker, or he's obsessed with DAT STORYTELLING that he doesn't care how slow he has to go to get that across. I don't know, but it's something to think about.


I personally believe HHH tries to make an "epic match" by having these long, slower paced matches (not always a bad thing) that are suppose to be dramatic and large in scope. I get the idea he has when he attempted it with HBK in HIAC or the wars with Lesnar but sometimes it just does not connect. I do however think he got it right on with Taker and sometimes drama, storytelling, and throwing bombs in a war are the best elements to a big spectacle match at WrestleMania, especially with Undertaker and The Streak.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Finally finished watching the whole 2001 year
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great list and superb year. The amount of quality on display that year was pretty astonishing and so many great matches.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

*William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - NXT 4.10.13*

This was really good. Regal rules every time he wrestles now and it's always a absolute treat to watch. Loved his little stomps in the corner and his limbwork as usual rocks my socks. I'm a sucker for his arguing with the ref too. I'm not the biggest Ohno fan there is but he was very good in this. Sold Regals offense beautifully and his strikes look legit. Missed a bit of his control segment due to the ad break but this is comfortably his best work in FCW/NXT by far. If he can move on from this and get good matches with other guys then I'm all for it. Finish is fantastic and sells the desperation of both men and what a battle they had despite it being not that long.

******


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I have Benoit vs. Triple H from Vengeance '04 at *** 1/4. It's a very good match but it goes way too long and the Eugene stuff hurts it at the end. Shame too cause it has some great elements throughout.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Can anyone recommend me a good Eugene match?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Trips/Eugene - Summerslam 2004
Regal & Eugene/Tomko & Christian - NYR 2005


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Eugene was the worst thing to happen to professional wrestling. Feel bad for the dude who got stuck with that gimmick.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everybody should watch Trips-Eugene from Summerslam 2004.

THE GAME'S best character work post - 2000 I do believe. Might even throw four stars at it (which is fucking insane) because his performance is so great. The CEREBRAL ASSASIN vs a retard. YEAH.

Google it, BING it, I don't fucking care. Just WATCH.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

GOATAntics said:


> Spoiler: My Top 45 Undertaker Matches (1-on-1 matches and each opponent is only to be listed once)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting idea. Not sure if I could do 45, but here's my top list under those restrictions for Taker:


Spoiler: Top 25 Taker matches 1 on 1 each man only listed once



(*****)
1) vs. HBK WM25
(****3/4)
2) vs. Angle NWO 2006
3) vs. Lesnar NM 2002
(****1/2)
4) vs. Punk WM29
5) vs. Batista WM23
6) vs. Edge SS 2008
7) vs. Orton WM21
(****)
8) vs. Austin JD 2001
9) vs. Cena SD 2004
10) vs. Big Show CS 2008
11) vs. Bret Hart SS 1997
12) vs. Kane WM14
13) vs. HHH WM28
14) vs. Flair WM18
15) vs. Mankind KOTR 1998
(***3/4)
16) vs. Finlay SD 3/9/07
17) vs. Jeff Hardy Raw 2002 Ladder Match
18) vs. RVD Vengeance 2001
(***1/2)
19) vs. Kennedy NM 2006
20) vs. Rock NWO 2002
21) vs. Heidenreich SVS 2004
22) vs. JBL NM 2004
23) vs. Mysterio RR 2010
24) vs. Diesel WM12
(***1/4)
25) vs. Benjamin SD 4/17/09


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've still gotta watch that Cena/Taker SD match, I honestly don't remember seeing it tbh, might stick it on in a bit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

All of these Undertaker lists just aren't complete without the Bret Hart match from MSG 1992. Buy & watch the Dungeon Collection folks, BUY & WATCH IT! 

YAHOO IT!

BEARS!

*LESNAR PRIMAL SCREAM!*


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

An underrated match EVERYONE should watch is Undertaker vs. FESTUS


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Here's a match that should get far more love: Jericho vs Goldust from Superstars '10. That shit was DOPE.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

@Clique - I agree, that Taker/Festus match is pretty great. Just two big guys beating that shit out of each other. Festus getting in quite a lot of offense was a pleasant surprise too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Yay, My Taker list is getting some talk again. Taker/Luther, Test and A-Train were all surprisingly solid matches, The hate shouldn't be there, Taker made the most of SHIT opponents. (except for Test)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

GOATAntics, that's a great list. I'm just surprised you gave that Rock NWO 2002 match a *** 1/2 star rating. Match was too slow with an overbooked ending, I gave it a **3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching HHH/HBK - Armageddon 2002 2/3 Falls.

Havnt watched this either in fuck knows how long, and I know it gets 'mixed' reviews on here lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On a few matches that have been mentioned recently:

Taker/HHH SD 08- **1/4
Taker/Festus SD 08- ***1/4
HHH/Eugene- ***3/4


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Just watching HHH/HBK - Armageddon 2002 2/3 Falls.
> 
> Havnt watched this either in fuck knows how long, and I know it gets 'mixed' reviews on here lol.


By 'mixed' reviews you mean pretty much everybody thinks it's shit.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm not a big HHH fan at all but I was just randomly wondering this... Why doesn't HHH have a retrospective Career spanning epic DVD?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> GOATAntics, that's a great list. I'm just surprised you gave that Rock NWO 2002 match a *** 1/2 star rating. Match was too slow with an overbooked ending, I gave it a **3/4


Saw your review, previously. I'd like to think of it, as a more methodical type pace, which Taker is more likely to produce. It also goes well with the "RESPECT" angle, Taker was running with at the time.



Gamblor said:


> On a few matches that have been mentioned recently:
> 
> Taker/HHH SD 08- **1/4
> Taker/Festus SD 08- ***1/4
> HHH/Eugene- ***3/4


Taker/Trips is way too low, Great main event for SD. It was less brawling, more wrestling and it surprisingly worked.

You guys wouldn't believe the remembering/memory aspect that went along with compiling the list, I even had to use profightdb to find new matches to watch and rank on the list.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Shepard said:


> *William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - NXT 4.10.13*
> 
> This was really good. Regal rules every time he wrestles now and it's always a absolute treat to watch. Loved his little stomps in the corner and his limbwork as usual rocks my socks. I'm a sucker for his arguing with the ref too. I'm not the biggest Ohno fan there is but he was very good in this. Sold Regals offense beautifully and his strikes look legit. Missed a bit of his control segment due to the ad break but this is comfortably his best work in FCW/NXT by far. If he can move on from this and get good matches with other guys then I'm all for it. Finish is fantastic and sells the desperation of both men and what a battle they had despite it being not that long.
> 
> ******


I just watched this and thought it was incredible for a 15 minute match. I love the subtleties that Regal incorporates into his matches, whether it's the villainous picking apart of Ohno's fingers, which I thought was brilliantly sold not only during the moment but throughout the match as well, or it's the aggression he shows with something as insignificant as just stomping his opponent, he's just an absolute pleasure to watch. I love the fact that he's helping out the young crop of talent who are starting to break through as well because he's the kind of wrestler, with his attention to detail, that rising stars should want to emulate in some way or another.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Lazyking said:


> I'm not a big HHH fan at all but I was just randomly wondering this... Why doesn't HHH have a retrospective Career spanning epic DVD?


He's getting one in September.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really want to do a list of Undertaker's best matches. Maybe a top 100. Don't know if I should stick to my 2006-2007 project or just use profightdb and watch as many of his matches as I can find from when he became the Undertaker up until the end of his run.

He has such a lengthy and awesome career, I feel like it'll be fun to go through all the matches. (except shit stuff that I've already seen of course)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

GOATAntics said:


> Taker/Trips is way too low, Great main event for SD. It was less brawling, more wrestling and it surprisingly worked.


Nah, it was a decent match, but still too slow and didn't have the storytelling on the level of what we saw at the Mania matches. The finish didn't help things either... of course not like I expected a clean finish, but still. It was actually kinda disappointing looking back on both Taker and HHH's year and the quality matches they had with others, but they didn't click all that well. Then again I don't think they've ever really had much chemistry and their best interaction ever imo was the SD EC 2009 match.

Top 100 Taker matches? Hm... I think I could manage that.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Nostalgia said:


> Getting back to the current Mania talk..
> 
> I bought WrestleMania so I've had it for a week free on Sky Box Office to re-watch it, and I honestly haven't attempted to watch any of the matches properly again. Overall I just didn't really enjoy the show too much so I haven't had any desire to watch those matches again. The only times I've turned on the WrestleMania repeat is when I've been bored and there's nothing on TV, and even then I only have it in the background, usually on mute, while I'm on my laptop, not really paying attention to the show.


I'm the same. I haven't had the chance to just sit and watch it yet although I have turned it on a few times and every single time fucking Del Rio/Swagger is the match that's on lol. I think I'm just going to have to wait for the DVD to watch it again because I'm not getting a chance otherwise. I'm not exactly in a hurry to buy it either so it might be a while. 

Might get back to watching some more 2011. I was working my way through tons of that stuff and then just stopped for whatever reason.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I really want to do a list of Undertaker's best matches. Maybe a top 100. Don't know if I should stick to my 2006-2007 project or just use profightdb and watch as many of his matches as I can find from when he became the Undertaker up until the end of his run.
> 
> He has such a lengthy and awesome career, I feel like it'll be fun to go through all the matches. (except shit stuff that I've already seen of course)


A top 100 seems crazy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2011 is seriously of one GOAT years in-ring for WWE ever. I could make me a Top 50 of that years and still be missing some goodies.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Well I've got the best PPV matches and best of Raw/SD sets sitting here ready to go. That's my Saturday night sorted. Such a party animal I am.... :side:

I'd love to do a top 100 of anything and I would actually try if I knew I had the time and could stick to it. I'd probably not even make it halfway through before stopping though which is why I probably never will. Top 10, maybe top 20, is enough for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lazyking said:


> A top 100 seems crazy.


Not exactly hard to do since he's had such a lengthy, great career, though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Top 100 would be easy, As long as i could include matches with the same opponent and mult-man matches like EC, FFW and Triple Threats.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 100 Undertaker matches list did someone day? I could probably whip up a top 50 or so off the top of my head. Top 100 would be easy if I could get off my arse and go to my DVD shelf .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Top 100 would be easy? It would take me forever to get through 100 matches of a specific project. Hell, I probably haven't even watched 100 matches this year so far.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Random: Downloading the Elimination Chamber Anthology along with Night of Champions 2008 and Survivor Series 2006. 

Watched Bryan/Ziggler from Bragging Rights 2010 that someone posted a few pages back. MAN, that match is just smooth. A solid ****. Imagine that match with the Yes chants. AND, on a side note: I really prefer Bryan with his clean face and short hair. The beard and long hair is just out of control now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Top 100 would be easy? It would take me forever to get through 100 matches of a specific project. Hell, I probably haven't even watching 100 matches this year so far.


That's because you waste too much time on current day WWE. 

I've become a much more prolific watcher of wrestling in the past year when I started skipping shows regularly.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Clique said:


> An underrated match EVERYONE should watch is Undertaker vs. FESTUS


(Y) (Y) (Y)

Taker at his best,***1/2 for me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> That's because you waste too much time on current day WWE.
> 
> I've become a much more prolific watcher of wrestling in the past year when I started skipping shows regularly.


Hardly lol. The only thing about current day WWE that is truly exciting to watch is NXT imo and even then I have about 3/4 eps on backlog to watch. Actually, maybe I'll do that and catch this Regal/Ohno match everybody has been raving about. Their program was only starting on the last show I watched.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that best of raw/sd 11>>>>>> 12. That ziggler/punk nov 11 match is arguably his best (ziggler)

ziggler/punk nov 11>>>>>>>> ziggler/bryan Br 09


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I really need to see HHH vs Eugene,i haven't seen this match since 2004.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just passed by that Punk/Ziggler match on Youtube, and watched Punk/Ziggler from Smackdown on October 5, 2012, when Punk was in the midst of his respect gimmick and Heyman and just returned. Decent match, barely got 10 minutes. 

Think I'll cue up that Punk/Ziggler match for later, though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Eugene is :lmao. DICK TRIPS FTW. 

On the agenda for tonight:

Punk/Rey , Cap Punishment 2011
Raw MITB 2011
Mysterio & Riley/Miz & Swagger, Raw 2011
Cena/Miz, Raw 2011
Bryan/Rhodes, SD 2011
MYSTERIO/CENA :mark:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just watched Taker/Mysterio from SD 2010 for contendership at Fatal Four Way, I genuinely thinks it's better than their Rumble bout. Anyone would agree?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just saw that this Punk/Ziggler match is on the Best of 11 set right at the very end so I'll get to it eventually too. 

Don't remember either Taker/Mysterio match tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Trips/Eugene is :lmao. DICK TRIPS FTW.
> 
> On the agenda for tonight:
> 
> ...


Cara vs Bourne, Cara vs Bryan I, Christian vs ADR Cage, Rey vs Punk vs ADR and all Trent/Gabriel/Hunico/Tyson combinations are hugely recommendated too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fuck, when is Benoit coming back. Smackdown 06 is so boring to watch. The Miz has been an unbearable douche and the most entertaining part of his debut match was JBL burying him on commentary. Then there's those awful Rey Mysterio/Chavo and Booker/Batista feuds covering up the rest of the show. Finlay vs Kennedy for the US Title is next, though. Hope it's good!

I'm pretty much skipping most of ECW and SD and mostly just wanna watch Raw since it's by far the best of the bunch, specially now Rated RKO are about to start their run as a tag team. Plus Vince hopefully fucks off after Unforgiven.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> MYSTERIO/CENA :mark:


Awesome match, should have main evented Summerslam. Could have given Punk a little more time off and have him return a month later. This deserved to main event a PPV.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I loved Mysterio/Cena SO much the first few times I saw it. Haven't seen it in ages though. Really looking forward to watching it again. 

@ATF - I'll add Cara/Bourne to the list. Don't think I have the rest of those at my disposal though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Just watched Taker/Mysterio from SD 2010 for contendership at Fatal Four Way, I genuinely thinks it's better than their Rumble bout. Anyone would agree?


Date ?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Just watched Taker/Mysterio from SD 2010 for contendership at Fatal Four Way, I genuinely thinks it's better than their Rumble bout. Anyone would agree?


Both matches are very good but i agree with you i prefer the match they had at SD 2010.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I just watched that Taker/Mysterio Fatal 4-way qualifying match mentioned earlier, and it's a solid bout even though it doesn't go very long. It's always fun watching Rey go up against someone a lot bigger than him, and he competes well. Taker countering the two 619 attempts with a huge big boot and catching Rey for a Chokeslam attempt are excellent. Predictable, but well executed finish too. 

****1/2*

Haven't seen their Rumble match in years (maybe even since it aired) so I'll probably watch that next.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I just watched that Taker/Mysterio Fatal 4-way qualifying match mentioned earlier, and it's a solid bout even though it doesn't go very long. It's always fun watching Rey go up against someone a lot bigger than him, and he competes well. Taker countering the two 619 attempts with a huge big boot and catching Rey for a Chokeslam attempt are excellent. Predictable, but well executed finish too.
> 
> ****1/2*
> 
> Haven't seen their Rumble match in years (maybe even since it aired) so I'll probably watch that next.


This, is their a better tv match performer than Rey ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, after watching the HBK/HHH - Armageddon 2002 match, I'll renounce a saying:

'You can't polish a turd'

Fuck knows about a star rating, it was a bunch of random ass shit lol, that seemed to be going god knows where, yeah mini parts of it were 'fun' enough to keep watching but idk - ** probably.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Which match is it where Rey broke Taker's nose after a botched senton?

And going back to Smackdown 06, just got done watching the US Title match. Bobby Lashley was added and it was a solid triple threat.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ziggler/punk nov 11>>>>>>>> ziggler/bryan Br 09


:no:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Which match is it where Rey broke Taker's nose after a botched senton?


It was their Royal Rumble 2010 match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Which match is it where Rey broke Taker's nose after a botched senton?


It's their Rumble match which I just watched. I prefer this one to the match I reviewed a page back. Everytime Rey starts to build some offense, Taker retaliates with some huge strikes. For some reason Undertaker looks really awkward laying on the ropes in wait for the 619. It just doesn't look natural. Much better finish to their other match, and Taker did well to make Rey look like a threat to the title, although I doubt anyone really though Rey would walk out with the gold.

****3/4*


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> ziggler/punk nov 11>>>>>>>> ziggler/bryan Br 09


Heh. Not to mention, it's Bragging Rights '10.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just watched Punk/Swagger from 09/01/12. Solid match, Swagger pulls out some seriously great counters in this one and hits a couple of mean suplexes. Some good back-and-forth stuff until the awful botched ending. Punk hits the elbow off the top, goes for the cover and it's clearly a 2 count. Yet for some reason the bell rings and everyone looks bemused until Punk is declared the winner. Big anti climax.

*****


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Monday Night Raw
WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs. The Miz
May 2nd, 2011*

_Remember when Miz main evented Raw and shit? Remember when Cena wore red? Remember when people still liked The Rock? WWE title on the line, here we go….Cena takes control early with some fast paced action, leap frog and his infamous dropkick followed by a quick cover. Miz kicks out and they battle into the corner. Miz trying to hang with Cena in a brawl and it fails but Riley gets the distraction to let Miz regain control. Cena to the outside and Riley plows him with a clothesline. Next he meets the steel steps while Miz walks around looking very angry. Back in the ring now with Miz hitting his clothesline move he does in the corner quickly followed by a big axe handle from the top rope. Miz is now firmly in control when we come back from commercial. He goes for his corner clothesline thing again only to miss. A window opens for Cena to take advantage and he does, hitting his 5 moves in order and prepping for the AA. Miz counters with a big ass boot to the head. Our first false finish of the match. Miz runs the ropes looking for another big kick but Cena grabs his leg and rolls him up for the STF. Miz manages to get the ropes and counter with a DDT. Things are starting to open up now. The turnbuckle cover comes off. Miz tries to throw Cena in but it’s blocked, another AA attempt, blocked again and Miz hits his backbreaker/neckbreaker combo to a very close kickout by Cena. Frustration starting to creep in for Miz but he looks for the SCF only to lead to a ref bump. The ref on the outside and Miz taps in the ring. Cena thinks he’s won but there’s no ref. Riley in the ring for the distraction, Miz hits Cena with the briefcase and then the SCF, he looks to have it in the bag, 1…2…..no! Cena kicks out. DAT SUPERMAN. Angry Miz returns only to walk right into an AA but he kicks out! The Miz kicks out! Great atmosphere building for this now. Riley back on the apron while Cena gets whacked with the title. Miz gets the cover and WINS THE FUCKING MATCH WHAT!? I don’t remember this. Chioda goes to get the belt to hand it to Miz but he already has it. It sinks in….he used it to win the match and he reverses his decision therefore still WWE Champion, John Cena. Bullshit finish but a WTF moment to say the least I guess. Post match Cena beats the shit out of both of them. Yay._

***3/4*

*Friday Night Smackdown
Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes
24th June, 2011*

_THE PAPERBAG MAN. Pre match promo by Rhodes about fat people and chocolate complete with atrocious and forced Cole laughter. Nice. Then we get one from Bryan. “A cup doesn’t belong on your face. A cup belongs in your pants.” What a Vegan. 

Quick start with multiple arm drags from Bryan, third one blocked by Rhodes, roll up, kickout into a nice little sequence of leap frogs and drops. Cool stuff. Ted DiBiase sighting at ringside. Remember him? Commercial break and now Rhodes is firmly in control, beating Bryan on the outside. Things move back to the ring, Bryan thrown face first into the turnbuckle and Cody follows him in with a big splash to the back. Holy fuck Michael Cole is annoying. Rhodes locks in an arm bar which Bryan briefly fights out of only to be brought back down by a Russian leg sweep. Kick to the head. 2 big knees to the gut. Rhodes goes for a big rolling knee to the face and misses. Bryan is unable to capitalise and Cody is still running shit. He locks in a nice, almost looks like a camel clutch type manoeuvre but it doesn’t last long. I wish it did. Bryan retakes control after getting out of the submissions and hits his chest kicks in the corner followed by a top rope hurricanrana. Cover. Kickout. Bryan starting to hulk up at this stage. More kicks to the chest, Bryan goes for the NO/YES lock but can’t lock it in. Match breaks down now with both of them going back and forward until they clash in the middle of the ring with equal cross body attempts. Ref’s count gets to 6 and they’re both up. DiBiase pulls Bryan’s leg which leads to Bryan owning him on the outside. He tries to get back in the ring and Cody hits the Beautiful Disaster which leaves Bryan all hung up on the ropes. Bryan sells the leg injury and takes his time getting to his feet. He eventually does only to meet another Beautiful Disaster. Rhodes hits the Cross Rhodes for the win. 
_

***3/4

Monday Night Raw
No Count Out Match - Evan Bourne vs. Sin Cara
27th June, 2011*

_Not doing a write up for this because I just wanted to watch it the whole way through. Fun as hell match. I think everybody likes a good old high flying borderline spot fest every now and then. This is just that but it’s great. The action never stops and they’re both flying all over the place. Bourne’s standing moonsault is a thing of beauty. No SSP though which sucked. Fun stuff._

***1/4

Monday Night Raw
Tornado Tag Team Match - The Miz/Jack Swagger vs. Alex Riley/Rey Mysterio
27th June, 2011*

_Riley’s theme music. :mark: Fuck, when was the last time they have done a Tornado Tag in WWE apart from this one? So. Much. Fun. To. Watch. Again, I’m not going to do a move by move write up for this because I just want to watch it. Things to look out for, Riley’s leap up to the top rope and big time hip toss on Miz. I almost marked. Riley could be great if they give him another chance and he develops. Guy has scary charisma. Mysterio goes to the top rope but gets caught by Swagger who then drops him down into Miz’s knee is a very cool spot also. Finishing stretch is fucking GOAT. Watch this match. It’s awesome. _

****1/2 and flat out FUN.*


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Do you guys prefer HHH/Taker from WM 27 or 28? Could someone please post a review for both matches, would love to see what people think about these matches in depth. Appreciate it!


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WM 28 was definetely better and the atmosphere, everything seemed so epic in that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HWRP said:


> Do you guys prefer HHH/Taker from WM 27 or 28? Could someone please post a review for both matches, would love to see what people think about these matches in depth. Appreciate it!


WM 27:



Spoiler: review



The Undertaker Vs Triple H - Without a doubt the BIGGEST match on the show… and really the ONLY big match on the show. Despite my seeming man love for The Undertaker, I wasn’t too interested in this one. Based on their previous matches over the years I had a lot of reason to doubt it. And watching it live didn’t do much for me. However, after sitting through 20 minutes of Lawler/Cole and numerous other disappointments, and the fact it was around half 2 in the morning by now, I was tired and a little bored and probably didn’t pay as much attention to it. Hopefully this re-watch will do some good. I mean, back at WM 25 I wasn’t THAT impressed with HBK/Undertaker when I saw it live. Adored it when I reviewed it the next day. “For Whom The Bell Tolls” plays and out comes HHH for a rather unspectacular WM entrance. Nobody this year really had an entrance worth mentioning, including Undertaker right afterwards. Though I always enjoy Undertaker’s entrance no matter what lol. Oh, and his new coat was awesome too. Maybe one of these days I’ll look into getting a coat like that, always really wanted one. No time wasted here as HHH takes the fight right to The Undertaker with those big lefts and rights. No need to feel his opponent out; he’s been in the ring before, plus he just wants to end the Streak at any cost, so going for the big bombs right away makes sense. Undertaker just kinda shrugs him off though, launching him out of the ring. HHH throws more bombs at Undertaker on the outside, but Undertaker again shrugs him aside and sends him into the steel steps. Undertaker wants to control this match and go at HIS pace, regardless of what HHH wants to do. So HHH charges at The Undertaker and sends him crashing through the tool box, which leads to a great visual of Undertaker getting up almost DBZ style when someone is knocked into a mountain or something and they just stand back up and let the rocks fly off them lol. He stares at HHH almost as if to say “fine, we’ll do it YOUR way”. HHH is really determined to take out Undertaker here, and as a result Undertaker takes a bump into the barricade that someone of his age and condition (hip surgery a year or so ago I think) really shouldn’t be taking. But its WM and he’ll do everything he can. The fight goes onto the announcers table, and HHH takes a huge bump with a back body drop off the table to the floor, and perhaps legit injures his left arm which he favours for the rest of the match, but not in a way that prevents him from doing anything if you get me. Knowing that he is truly in for the fight of a lifetime, Undertaker knows he has to really bust out everything in his arsenal. After WM 25 when he landed on his head, I didn’t think we would see it again, especially since he didn’t do it at WM 26 and his condition has got to be worse a year later… but dammit, Undertaker continues to prove that he is still the best in the world when he wants to be, and he dives over that top rope as effortlessly as he did a decade ago when he was in way better shape. The big bumps keep coming, and Undertaker again puts his body in more risk than he should when he attempts to put HHH through a table but ends up taking a AA Spinebuster through it instead! DAMN! Watching live, and feeling how I did (bored, disappointed and tired due to the time and rest of the show so far lol), I just saw this as one giant finishing stretch from the get go with no psychology or anything. Watching it again in a much better mood, I can see it for what it really is; awesome. The match is all about HHH wanting to end the streak or die trying, and Undertaker wanting to prove to HHH that is ISN’T his time to go yet. So HHH does what he does best; be a ruthless cunt who will destroy his opponent at any cost, while Undertaker continues to fight back and kick out of anything The Game throws at him. If they had started slow, locking up and “wrestling” at the beginning, it really would have been dumb given the context of the feud, so I for one am glad that they went all out from the start. Helps that they are executing everything so well too. At some point Undertaker gets a Chokeslam in, but nobody in their right mind believes that its over lol. A Pedigree shows up too, and it too isn’t that great as a false finish, just because of what Undertaker and HBK did the last 2 years. The Last Ride spot, while again not the best false finish, was still cool because it was a great throwback to WM 17, as Undertaker defeated HHH that way 10 years ago at this very event. Undertaker getting frustrated was great to see. His character as the last outlaw might not look too different on the surface, but he really is been shown as more “human” than usual, and given the feud with Undertaker not accepting HHH’s statement that he’s done, getting frustrated like this at not being able to put HHH away really adds to the story of the match. If a Last Ride, and then a TOMBSTONE can’t put HHH away… can Undertaker do it? Can he hold on to his streak? DRAMA~! The second Pedigree is a way better false finish than the first. Like the Tombstone, it's one of THE most protected finishers in the entire industry really (though other companies tend to use the Tombstone every now and then and NOT finish a match with it…). So seeing 2 of them not work, and then a THIRD in a very short period of time after the second one also not work was just amazing. I always go into these matches expecting Undertaker to win, but every so often a certain spot in certain matches over the last few years really makes me think that the Streak might end this time. That third Pedigree was one of those moments along with the last Superkick in WM 26 before Undertaker eventually won. MOAR Throwbacks in the match (which I LOVE btw) with HHH using the steel chair similar to how Austin used it on The Rock at WM 17 when Rocky kept kicking out of the Stunner, and then the “stay down” which was a throwback to WM 26 when Undertaker told HHH’s best friend HBK to stay down. Makes the match that much better that Undertaker actually finished HBK off after telling him to stay down and he didn’t, so with HHH saying it maybe he would actually get the win! Undertaker’s selling in this match NEEDS to be talked about too. The man really is one of the better sellers IN THE WORLD today, and has been for a number of years, even with the Dead Man gimmick. He can make things believable while still being able to be the “other worldly” character. Here he comes across as more human, as I mentioned earlier, and his selling is just impeccable. You really get the feeling that he’s at death’s door and the next big move could end his streak, and his life (kayfabe of course). And then there is the Tombstone. From HHH. Good GOD. I’m struggling to decide which is better; Tombstone kick out by HBK at WM 25, or this one. The crowd has been pretty shitty most of the night, but picked up for this match, and when Undertaker kicked out of that Tombstone they went ballistic. Almost as if THEY, like me, believed that it was over. And then it wasn’t. And it was awesome. Just as Undertaker was getting frustrated with HHH kicking out of shit, HHH begins to get that same feeling, and resorts to bringing out the Sledgehammer. He drags Undertaker to the centre of the ring, and informs the Dead Man that “Its time”. And Undertaker sticks him in Hells Gate! What a struggle this is too, with HHH trying to hang on, trying to escape. At one point he grabs that Sledgehammer, and we know that just one shot from that and it could be it for The Undertaker… but HHH is fading fast, and the Sledgehammer drops. The hammer hits the mat, and then The Game taps out. I would have preferred for HHH to simply “pass out” to really put over the “die trying” mentality that he had going into the match, but it's a minor complaint really. Damn. Definitely, DEFINITELY enjoyed this more on this re-watch. A LOT more. A fucking TON more. This is fantastic. Truly epic. The storytelling is off the charts, the action is incredible, and the finish (while not 100% perfect) is great. This was one hell of a battle, and the selling from both men, but especially The Undertaker, is out of this world. Hell, I’ve been reading all day from numerous sites that a LOT of people believed that Undertaker was legit hurt and out of it. I just have to wonder what’s next for Undertaker after the way he was taken to the back. ****3/4.



WM 28:



Spoiler: review



The Undertaker Vs Triple H - Fuck. Yes. This is where another £5 went lol. Awesome that JR got to call the match, and they actually didn’t ruin it by playing up on all the shit between him and Cole. In fact, Cole was toned down a TON all night, which was awesome. He’s decent when he isn’t being a retard. The build up to this one hasn’t been epic, but I have enjoyed it more than any other WM match build this year. The whole “uncertainty” angle with Undertaker was a great way to set up the re-match imo. I remember listening to a radio show with JR, and the host summed up this angle in a great way. It's just like Rocky II. Undertaker is Apollo Creed, and he wants the rematch because, and I quote “I won but I didn’t BEAT him”. And that’s just perfect for this. Undertaker got the win last year, but he was unable to leave the ring on his own and wasn’t able to return until a year later. So he wants another shot at HHH to prove that he CAN beat The Game and not JUST win the match. Undertaker’s coat looks epic btw. And his new hair cut reveal isn’t nearly as bad as I was thinking. I was expecting him to be completely bald and clean shaven on top of his head, but its grown back a little and he even has a slight Mohawk going that actually adds to his new look. The cell lowers to the sound of Metallica, and I have to wonder what shitty generic rock music they’ll replace it with when they release the show on DVD/Bluray. Seriously, why bother getting music like that for JUST the one night and not including it on the DVD/Bluray releases? They’ve done it before in the part, but now they replace anything they don’t already own the rights to. Last year, Triple H ran straight into The Undertaker to start the match and would be the one to control the pace and the match for the most part. This year, Undertaker has something to prove to himself and to HHH, so HE starts the match on fire and takes the fight right to HHH, showing him that the beating he took last year isn’t going to happen again; at least, not to HIM. I’ve been reading Mick Foley’s first book as of late, and there is a chapter where he talks a little about the best way to bust someone open “the hard way”. It involves targeting the spot just above the eyebrow… and about 3 minutes into this match I noticed that Undertaker starts targeting that exact spot with a couple of right hands and a few headbutts! Blood might be a big no-no in WWE these days, but hey, if someone is “accidentally” busted open, they can’t be punished, right? Besides, who the FUCK is going to come down to the ring and stop a Hell in a Cell match between HHH and THE UNDERTAKER? Nobody with a brain. The match slows down a little for a while now unfortunately. The match is inside the cell so I guess they figure they should do SOMETHING with it, and that ends up as nothing more than throwing each other into the side of it a couple of times. There really was no need to put this contest inside HIAC. I think they did it just to say that HHH and Undertaker finally had a HIAC match. Things pick up again when HHH tries to get himself back into the match with a quick DDT. He attempts a Pedigree on the steel steps that Undertaker brought in the ring, but a back body drop puts a stop to that. A nice little callback spot I guess you could say from their previous match, except last year it was a table HHH got back dropped. Another callback spot from last year with HHH hitting a brutal AA Spinebuster, except its the steel steps once again standing in for the table and damn does it look and sound a hell of a lot worse than last year! A desperate Undertaker sees an opportunity to use Hells Gate, but HHH has it scouted and is able to power Undertaker up and set him crashing to the mat! Undertaker’s back has taken some punishment now, so it's time for the cerebral assassin to do what he does best; go to work on an injured body part. Time for the HBK factor to get involved in the match, with HHH brutalising The Undertaker with a steel chair, causing Shawn to show some concern for the man who ended his career. Triple H tells Shawn to end it, to ring the bell and stop the suffering of one of the biggest legends, or else HE’LL end it, and it won’t be as quick and painless as ringing a bell. Undertaker makes damn sure to tell Shawn not to end it, which just infuriates HHH to the point where he brings out his trusty Sledgehammer to finish the job. HBK gets involved again, actually preventing HHH from smashing the sledgehammer down on the head of the Dead Man. Instead he looks like he’s going to ring the bell, a way he sees best to prevent HHH from not just beating HHH, but ENDING him. But its WrestleMania, and The Undertaker isn’t going to let a match end like this any time, never mind HIS show. And if Shawn is considering ringing the bell, Undertaker believes he needs to take out Shawn, and he locks in the Hells Gate! With Shawn gone, HHH is next to feel the pain of Hells Gate, and just like the end of last year’s match, HHH does his best to use the sledgehammer but he passes out from the pain! This one is OVER! Except… HBK is still out! Another referee runs down as Undertaker levels HHH with a Chokeslam, and we get probably the biggest near fall a Chokeslam has gotten in quite some time, as HHH was still out from the Hells Gate and might not have been able to kick out. The referee suffers for only making a 2 count, and then… SWEET CHIN MUSIC! SWEET CHIN MUSIC! HBK kicks Undertaker’s teeth down his throat, and sends him straight into a Pedrigee! Its over! Its over! NO!!! Undertaker WILL NOT DIE! Triple H goes back to the trusty Sledgehammer, but Undertaker sits up and nearly scares HHH into submission! It's almost like Undertaker is remembering everything that happened to him last year, and its firing him up more than ever before! Tombstone! HBK makes the count… only 2! Shawn is GREAT here as he sits in the corner looking like an emotional wreck, knowing he almost screwed Undertaker out of his streak, and almost counted out his best friend in this “end of an era” match. We get a great battle from both men as they throw big lefts and rights at each other to the “yey!” and “boo!” of the crowd, with them starting off on their knees before staggering up and continuing it on their feet. PEDIGREE! Another 2 count, and Shawn looks like he just wants this one to end so nobody has to get hurt any more. With both men hurting badly, they begin to crawl to separate weapons. Undertaker goes for a chair, and HHH for his sledgehammer. A great visual as Undertaker has the chair in his hand, and stands on the sledgehammer before HHH can pick it up. All the chair shots Undertaker received earlier are now fresh in his mind, and similar to the HIAC match with Edge back in 2008, Undertaker looks now to give everything back to his opponent and then some. Chairshots the head have been outlawed in WWE, but the way these two have been swinging the chair for just back shots more than makes up for it. These are hard and every bit as brutal as a chair shot to the head would be. The match now really is a reverse of last year; Undertaker has destroyed HHH with chair shot after chair shot and is screaming at HHH to stay down, but like Undertaker last year, HHH refuses to, even though he has almost nothing left. Another tremendous visual moment as HHH charges at Undertaker one last time with the sledgehammer, only for Undertaker to put a stop to it and shake his head. HHH, like his best friend HBK 2 years earlier, is defiant to the end and essentially forces Undertaker to finish him because there really is no other way. Another Tombstone, and this one is over. The Undertaker is able to put his year of uncertainty behind him as he not only won, but he BEAT Triple H. The stuff that follows the match is really fucking great too. We have Undertaker and Shawn hugging, as Undertaker breaks away from his “Dead Man” character as much as possible without being Mark Calaway. And it was great to see Undertaker and HBK help HHH up and WALK him up the ramp to the back. Almost like Undertaker didn’t want HHH to go through what he went through last year. It might not have been on his own, but dammit, HHH WALKED out of WrestleMania. As JR put it, “That ladies and gentlemen, is respect”. This really was an end of an era, because it's going to be a long damn time before anything like this is going to be able to take place in WWE. This was incredible. Better than last year. If it wasn’t for the part near the beginning of the match slowing things down and not really going anywhere, I’d throw the full ***** at it. This is one hell of a way to finish the incredible story arc that in a way began at WrestleMania 24 with HBK ending the career of Ric Flair. It really doesn't get any better than this. ****3/4.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Amazing review for the WM 27 match, fucking great read. Reading through WM 28 now, thanks for posting them up


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Storytelling in the latter part of the 27 match is just stellar. They don't even need to do anything. Just the image of the immortal Undertaker becoming humanised before our very eyes while the Cerebral Assassin, the man who will stop at absolutely nothing to win is looking on almost in sympathy is enough. Stay Down. The attempted chokeslam and then the mother of all Tombstones. Wow. Taker sells the story with his body and HHH with his facial expressions. I'm with Cal in that things would have come full circle had HHH passed out and literally died trying instead of tapping but it doesn't take away from the match in the grand scheme of things. 

(Y) Cal.

I still say 28 > 27 though.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Triple H/Taker Wrestlemania Ratings
17: ***3/4
27: ****
28: ***1/2


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker/HHH:

WM 17: ****1/4
WM 27: ****1/2
WM 28: ****3/4


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Might do a top 50 wrestlemania matches list soon or maybe even a top 50 GOAT match list which will be really tough to do. Anyone on here done either list before?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Clique said:


> An underrated match EVERYONE should watch is Undertaker vs. FESTUS


Great match. Love the slugfest nature of it. My thoughts on it were posted in the old thread, I do believe. Well, shoot. Was going to post the link to it b/c my thoughts were summed up perfectly. Oh well. It OWNS.



ATF said:


> Here's a match that should get far more love: Jericho vs Goldust from Superstars '10. That shit was DOPE.


Superstars 2010 plug? 

:mark:

Awesome match. Anyone with three minutes to kill - YES ONLY THREE - should go watch Luke Gallows vs Lance Archer from Superstars 11/4/10. 3:10 and it rocks your socks off.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is the hbk/Jericho match from July 2003 any good ? stumbled across it and don't hear that much about it. its their mania 19 rematch


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> Do you guys prefer HHH/Taker from WM 27 or 28? Could someone please post a review for both matches, would love to see what people think about these matches in depth. Appreciate it!


I prefer 28 to 27, you wont find better storytelling than in those two matches. 28 also has the GOAT as the ref


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WM 27 is such a better match for me personally. That finishing sequence gets me everytime.

*Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy - No Mercy 08*

This was great, Triple H playing that heel role perfectly as expected. Fuck me i must admit i was impresed by Hardy in this. You won't hear me saying that too often. Finish was okay, it was well executed but i'm not too much of a fan of the no sell pins.

Still though, very enjoyable. ****1/2* Onto their Cyber Sunday match next :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> is the hbk/Jericho match from July 2003 any good ? stumbled across it and don't hear that much about it. its their mania 19 rematch


Yeah, it's pretty great. Around ***3/4 on last watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Superstars 2010: Believe the hype.

WATCH. THIS. NOW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v89qz3JbRE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hardy vs Trips No Mercy '08 is amazing. Brilliant underdog babyface work by Hardy in it. Made the match. 

*****1/4*

off the top of my head it was the easy pick for best WWE Championship match of the year. I suppose Cena/Orton NWO would be its only competition.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Undertaker vs. Triple H @ Wrestlemania:

X7: ****
XXVII: ****
XXVIII: ****1/2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Hayley, thoughts on the Cyber Sunday effort?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hardy/Trips - NM '08 - ****1/2

Love it.

Cyber Sunday and Armageddon '07 ones are pretty good too.

CS - ****
Armageddon - ***3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hardy vs HHH from NM is awesome. ★★★¾



Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Undertaker vs. Triple H @ Wrestlemania:
> 
> X7: ****
> XXVII: ****
> XXVIII: ****1/2


Damn, I rate them exactly the same.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Hayley, thoughts on the Cyber Sunday effort?


A quality rematch. A step or two behind No Mercy, but that doesn't come off as a flaw. Hyper competitive match. Always worth a watch. Finish was rather nifty too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH/Hardy from No Mercy is a *****1/4* from me. Great stuff, perhaps by favourite Jeff singles match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably is my favorite Hardy singles non-gimmick match. Unless another one is blanking from my mind. He was bossy in '09 on Smackdown. I know when it comes to favorite Jeff Hardy matches the steel cage vs Punker is top of the list.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hardy/Punk feud. 

GAB - Don't remember
That match from Smackdown - ***1/2
NOC - ***1/2
Summerslam - ****1/2
Cage - ****1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/HHH:

WM17- ***3/4
WM27- ***1/2
WM28: ****

Hardy/HHH NM 08- ****


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Rock vs Stone Cold - Steel cage match in 2001 (the night after WM 17). Not sure what to rate this match but it's certainly enjoyable for what it was. Match starts with a early brawl and then leads to Stone Cold bleeding because Rock hits him with the belt and then both men get inside which leads to Rock making Austin tap out but referee is distracted by Vince McMahon. Rock continues to dominate Austin by hitting the People's Elbow but then Vince distracts Tim White who then pushes McMahon. This doesn't impact Rock because he then Rock Bottoms Austin but again the McMahon breaks up the count. Rock grabs McMahon and punches him but eventually, both Austin and McMahon team up against the Rock. HHH comes out and JR reminds us about their match at NWO but Triple H strikes Rock with the sledgehammer and they beat up the Rock using both of their finishers (Stunner and pedigree). Overall, it was a fun match to watch with the brawl at the start, Rock submitting and pinning Austin (both cases, referee didn't see) and then the formation of the Two Man Power trip. I think it was a no-contest at the end of the match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Quick side-step from my slow build to the '87 Crockett Cup, with a Mid-South match I have to recommend to anyone with 7 minutes to spare. Precisely 7. And with the footage avalible. Otherwise, may take a bit longer.

Ted DiBiase vs Bob Roop 04/02/82. It's relatively simple, arm work, leg work. But they do so much with 7 minutes, that some people don't get into 15-20 minutes. Great work by both men. ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bash match between Punk & Hardy is solid. Their weakest overall. NOC wasn't as good as I would've hoped, but good nonetheless. They hit their stride on the third outing on Smackdown. Punk went full heel & it was pretty brilliant for the final two matches. Well, certainly brilliant for the cage. TLC is a great exhibition of insane moments. Fitting gimmick. The hate was perceived well. Suppose hate isn't the perfect word. Hardy's for Punk was annoyance & Punk's for Hardy was more along the lines of eradicate. Cutting the cancer out, if you will. That program was incredibly legit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shelton Benjamin vs Shawn Michaels - May 2005 - ****1/4

Holy fuck this match is good. This was the peak of my Benjamin fandom when I was really hoping he'd move up into the main event.

We never got to see Benoit/Benjamin, did we?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Shelton Benjamin vs Shawn Michaels - May 2005 - ****1/4
> 
> Holy fuck this match is good. This was the peak of my Benjamin fandom when I was really hoping he'd move up into the main event.
> 
> We never got to see Benoit/Benjamin, did we?


I rate that match the same. UNREAL.

And Benoit/Benjamin happened quite a few times on Raw and on Smackdown in 2003 (when Shelton was in Team Angle). Never did they get much time, though.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Started my WWE 2009 project earlier today and these were the three matches that I watched first. I will probably watch some more matches later tonight and will try to post another set of reviews to go along with those matches.

*John Cena and Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho and Randy Orton – 01.05.09*
I really liked this match. Throughout the entire match they played up the tension between John Cena and Shawn Michaels since Michaels was JBL’s “employee” and JBL wanted John Cena to be injured going into his match against him at the Royal Rumble. While Shawn never delivered Sweet Chin Music to John Cena, you could tell that he was conflicted between being John Cena’s tag team partner and JBL’s employee. This made for some great drama throughout the match and I really liked how each time John Cena was trying to tag in Shawn during his lengthy face in peril segment, Shawn was barely reach out his hand for a tag. To tag him in, Cena had to literally jump nearly half-way across the ring to tag in Shawn so Shawn wouldn’t have the chance to pull his hand back. They continued to tease tension throughout the climax of the match and even after Shawn had delivered Sweet Chin Music to both Randy Orton and Chris Jericho. Shawn’s actions on the ring apron really put this match over the top from “average main event” to “pretty good main event.” Will this match be one of the top TV matches on my list by the time I finish this project? I doubt it but for what it was, it was pretty darn good.

*Triple H vs. John Morrison – 01.09.09*
This was about as good of a five minute tables match that you can expect to get between these two. We had some good table teases in this match before Triple H tossed Morrison through a table on the outside of the ring while Morrison was perched on the top rope. Morrison looked good here and got in a fair amount of offense before he was put away so it wasn’t a total squash. If anything, this was a fun match.

*The Undertaker vs. Shelton Benjamin – 01.09.09*
This was really good. Shelton Benjamin ended up getting a ton of offense in on the Undertaker, most of which was focused on attacking the leg of the Undertaker. Shelton’s leg work was pretty good and it added a lot to the match. Undertaker sold it well too outside of him going for his signature ring apron leg drop but it’s the Undertaker so I’m not that bothered by it. Shelton finally made one mistake and it ended up costing him the match. The match told a good story and it had good action, which is a combination for a very good match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I rate that match the same. UNREAL.
> 
> And Benoit/Benjamin happened quite a few times on Raw and on Smackdown in 2003 (when Shelton was in Team Angle). Never did they get much time, though.


Didn't even think of the '03 stuff. I'd have loved to see them get a 15 minute match in '04 or '05.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

GOON The Legend said:


> *Triple H vs. John Morrison – 01.09.09*
> This was about as good of a five minute tables match that you can expect to get between these two. We had some good table teases in this match before Triple H tossed Morrison through a table on the outside of the ring while Morrison was perched on the top rope. Morrison looked good here and got in a fair amount of offense before he was put away so it wasn’t a total squash. If anything, this was a fun match.


Was this the night on Smackdown when Vickie made Triple H earn his way back into the Royal Rumble? He had like three matches in one night. I think the third was against Big Show or something.


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Yes, it was.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Shelton Benjamin vs Shawn Michaels - May 2005 - ****1/4
> 
> Holy fuck this match is good. This was the peak of my Benjamin fandom when I was really hoping he'd move up into the main event.
> 
> We never got to see Benoit/Benjamin, did we?


I think Benoit had a really good sub-6 minute match with Benjamin on Raw in like 2005. I could be wrong though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'll be sure to look that up. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That one was a couple of weeks before Wrestlemania 21. On March, if I remember it right. And I think Benoit wore green tights on that night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH-Hardy is TOO DOPE, easily Hunter's best feud as a babyface. I love how it was structured honestly, with Jeff gaining the "fluke" win over Hunter @ Armageddon only for Trips to put Jeff down in every title match after that, leading to Jeff's eventual rise to the top and career defining win at Armageddon 2008. 

Armageddon 2007 : **** 1/2*
Cyber Sunday 2008 : ******
No Mercy 2008 : ***** 1/4*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just gave Cena/HBK from WM 23 a re-watch. Match is still ****.

Shawn Michaels proves that even though he could put on the ultimate babyface performance, he could also revert back to his heel days and show a ton of attitude. I loved how they really played up Shawn getting in Cena's head before the match and early on in the match, especially the way Shawn brought Cena in for a handshake but slapped him instead. Then he way HBK kept dodging punches but landing his own. 

Then, I loved the way Shawn worked on Cena's knee for a good little bit, and Cena sold the attack well - while it was happening. Unfortunately, that was all for naught because as soon as Cena got back on offense, he didn't sell the injury AT ALL, save for one or two leg shakes. I mean, not 30 seconds after taking all that punishment to the knee and not being able to stand, he's running the ropes and hitting his flying elbows drops and falling on his knee and not even grimacing. 

Loved how Cena walked into the superkick, and Shawn showing all the exhaustion and crawling so slowly to get the cover. Even though I've seen this match several times, my heart still sinks when HBK taps at the end. 

Crowd was also firmly behind HBK for this one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw how good Cena-HBK was on my last re-watch. Seriously, it's one of the best matches in company history, top 20-25 for sure IMO and probably the only match from 2007 save another match (CENA-UMAGA) that would be in a top 50 WWF/WWE match discussion. As a matter of fact, since that particular match happened there have been only FOUR matches better, all of which have found a place in my top 10 matches of all time believe it or not.

... On a side note, I'm just sitting here depressed as fuck, wishing KING OF KINGS FULL BLOWN HEEL GAME was back and not this short haired babyface that we have now, I mean ... He's a corporate face now! Can't they just turn him heel so he can be "I'll fuck your shit up" Hunter and not what we have now? That babyface performance of his in the Brock match really disappointed me, seriously.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Someone asked if anyone here has ever done a list of some sorts, and I'm currently making my Top 1000, but it spans all promotions so idk 

Also, I can also vouch for the Superstars 2010 love, literally every show had an awesome match :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HHH's dick smirk after he try's to roll up Hardy straight away at No Mercy was GOAT

:HHH2
*
**** 1/4 *for me as well for that match. 

I love Cena/HBK getting some praise its at ***** 1/2* for me as well and if I did a top 50 list for WWE it would be at the tail end of my list.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hardy/HHH PPV series:

Armageddon 2007 : ***1/4
Cyber Sunday 2008 : ***
No Mercy 2008 : ****

HBK/Cena's at **** for me.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WM27 hits the nail on the head with storytelling, It certainly doesn't overdo it like the latter does. Occupy that with other pluses like intense brawling, big bumps and quite possibly the greatest near fall in the history of the WWE. ***** for me

Trips/Taker WM28 (****)
Trips/Taker WM17 (****1/4)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*William Regal vs Kassius Ohno, NXT (4/11/13)*

Firstly I understand this is not everyone's cup of tea, it's slow and methodical but the selling and psychology is truly a thing of beauty. Surprisingly it starts off with a split crowd. Regal in the early going attacked the hand and fingers of Ohno, in a vile and sadistic manner. Which near the end of the match had a great payoff with Ohno not being able to lock in a cravate on 2 separate occasions. Ohno trying to pop his fingers back in place :mark: Sadly we miss most of the control segment by Ohno, but we see the set up with the baseball slide to the head. Ohno kicking Regal's head into the ring post was brutal, as was the 3 boots to the head while Regal was in the corner. Regal's selling was amazing, constantly stumbling and looking out of it. Ohno goes for the rolling elbow but Regal on instinct only counters with a elbow of his own and then the knee trembler for the win. Both men were great in this and just left me wanting more, a MOTYC for sure and possibly the greatest match NXT has produced. Maybe I'm overreacting to my rating, but this was superb and everything I admired about professional wrestling. 
*
**** 1/4*


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

WM23 - Cena vs HBK is one of my all time favorite main events in WM history.

This was a truly awesome one on one encounter. I loved the way the match started off slow with both guys trading punches/chops and how it progressed into a great "wrestling" match with terrific counter moves.

Definitely at least a **** match, perhaps even as high as ****1/2.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They should turn HHH into a corporate heel that fully embraces the heat he has for pushing people down, and someone that cops to burying all of those wrestlers. "Do any of you remember Shelton Benjamin? OF COURSE YOU DON'T, because I, ''the Game'' HHH, now WWE (trademark trademark) CEO, did not allow you to".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> They should turn HHH into a corporate heel that fully embraces the heat he has for pushing people down, and someone that cops to burying all of those wrestlers. "Do any of you remember Shelton Benjamin? OF COURSE YOU DON'T, because I, ''the Game'' HHH, now WWE (trademark trademark) CEO, did not allow you to".


Yeah1993.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio (Hell in a Cell ; Hell in a Cell 2011) : **** 1/4*

Brutal match, but I always found it to be a tad overrated. The shit that Punk takes in this is un-fucking-real, and the segments between Punk and Cena are awesome as always, but this suffers from the DEL RIO DISEASE ; when a match is crisp and great but it can't be taken to the next level due to my inability to be sucked into it for personal reasons (I.E. Alberto bores the shit out of me 90 percent of the time). I also hate Del Rio's random bursts of intensity that he shows from time to time, very ANGLE like. That's the extent of my dislike for this match though, as it pretty much fucking rules due to the brutality and the awesome Punk-Cena segments. I think everybody should take a watch if they're bored, but it's not a MUST watch in any sense.

YEAH1993 BINGS IT AGAIN.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

It's what happens after the HIAC match that is GOAT. COO Trips comes down with the whole damn roster trying to get in the cell after the Awesome Jobbers get in and attack Punk/Cena. 

The Game makes sure to get his shots in on Miz/Truth.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio (Hell in a Cell ; Hell in a Cell 2011) : **** 1/4*
> 
> Brutal match, but I always found it to be a tad overrated. The shit that Punk takes in this is un-fucking-real, and the segments between Punk and Cena are awesome as always, but this suffers from the DEL RIO DISEASE ; when a match is crisp and great but it can't be taken to the next level due to my inability to be sucked into it for personal reasons (I.E. Alberto bores the shit out of me 90 percent of the time). I also hate Del Rio's random bursts of intensity that he shows from time to time, very ANGLE like. That's the extent of my dislike for this match though, as it pretty much fucking rules due to the brutality and the awesome Punk-Cena segments. I think everybody should take a watch if they're bored, but it's not a MUST watch in any sense.
> 
> YEAH1993 BINGS IT AGAIN.


On last review I enjoyed this one and had it at **** 3/4* gonna go on a 2011 PPV binge soon I'll see if it holds up. Punk was GOAT in that match if I remember rightly. 

unk2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2011 was on pace to be one of the worst years in company history until Punk decided to put the whole fucking company on his back quality wise, thus birthing one of the better HALF YEARS (July-Dec) that we've ever received from the E'. Punk has been the undisputed 1A of the company ever since, really love how they've built him up as the best competition Cena's ever had, great stuff.

EDIT: Forgot to give credit to Mark Henry's amazing Smackdown main event run in the latter half of 2011 as I'd definitely cite it as another factor as to why the quality was so great on both shows. It's no secret that a Henry injury + Punk being pushed back out of the main event due to Rock coming back and fucking everything up once again counted for a pretty bad dip in quality when it came to the first half of 2012 (Royal Rumble - Wrestlemania).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Got that right. To that point, we had gotten Miz/Cena MAINEVENTING FUCKING WRESTLEMANIA, then that dumbass I quit match, then Cena/Truth (though heel Truth was pretty entertaining). 

Punk was already doing good work, but starting with that promo in Vegas, things changed.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Man, Orton/Benoit from SS 2004 is so tedious at times. Their SD NHB Match from 2006 defeats it in match quality by a fair margin IMO. ***1/2 for SS while the SD match gets ****1/4.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Benoit/Orton SummerSlam match is a very strong main event and the aftermath is very emotional - BE A MAN! However, I think I prefer just about all of their TV matches to it. Benoit & Orton's chemistry together was tremendous.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I wrong in thinking that 2011 was the best year since 2004 for the WWE? Look at all the awesome stuff that happened that year:

Summer of Punk
Mark Henry's title reign
Rock's return
Cody Rhodes' IC title reign
Christian's first world championship
Orton/Christian match series
Rise of Daniel Bryan
Ryder Revolution
Superstars churning out good matches weekly
Heel R-Truth
Sheamus as an interesting face
Lots of great PPVs (Elimination Chamber, Extreme Rules, MITB, Summerslam, Survivor Series, TLC)
Air Boom


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I wrong in thinking that 2011 was the best year since 2004 for the WWE? Look at all the awesome stuff that happened that year:
> 
> Summer of Punk
> Mark Henry's title reign
> ...


You forgot about Edge retiring and Undertaker V HHH.

2011 in May and june was mediocre. Other then that, 2011 was a very good year for the E.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punker vs Cena vs Del Rio Hell in a Cell is great. Can't say I see the high marks given for it are overrated at all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

British Bulldog/Owen Hart vs Doug Furnas/Phil Lafon - In Your House: Final Four

***1/2 Really good tag match here, Davey and Owen were so enjoyable to watch, ref didn't know what the fuck was going on half the time lol, DQ finish when Owen used his slammy award, but it was all part of the Bulldog/Owen story at the time, plus they retained.

Gonna watch the Four way now :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

zep81 said:


> British Bulldog/Owen Hart vs Doug Furnas/Phil Lafon - In Your House: Final Four
> 
> ***1/2 Really good tag match here, Davey and Owen were so enjoyable to watch, ref didn't know what the fuck was going on half the time lol, DQ finish when Owen used his slammy award, but it was all part of the Bulldog/Owen story at the time, plus they retained.
> 
> Gonna watch the Four way now :mark:


That final four match :mark: Vader is a straight up boss in it. 

I reviewed it like 2 months ago and have it at ***** 1/2*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> That final four match :mark: Vader is a straight up boss in it.
> 
> I reviewed it like 2 months ago and have it at ***** 1/2*


Yeah, that chair shot that busted Vader open. Just an all out fucking war, all over the place, Vader was just kicking the shit outta everyone lol, bumping everywhere.

I also forgot Bearer (R.I.P) was with Vader at the time too.

****1/4

Oh Taker got the biggest pop, easily.

Canadian Stampede next....fuck yeah.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I posted a thread that kinda interlines with this thread, as far as match style goes:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/769762-whats-your-favorite-element-match.html

Would be appreciative of your responses and mentions of match elements.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Ratings for the Austin set? :austin


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Decided to compile a Top 50 of 2011 myself, here's what I came up with:


> 50. Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio, Smackdown 3/18 - ***1/2
> 49. Raw Money In The Bank, Money In The Bank - ***1/2
> 48. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 27 - ***1/2
> 47. Rey Mysterio vs. The Miz, Raw 7/25 - ***1/2
> ...


50 best here, but there's so much other good stuff left...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

> 20.John Cena vs The Miz vs John Morrison- Extreme Rules ***1/4
> 19.Randy Orton vs Dolpz Ziggler- RAW August ***1/4
> 18.CM Punk vs Del Rio vs Miz- TLC ***1/2
> 17.CM Punk vs Del Rio vs Cena- Hell in a Cell ***1/2
> ...


This is my Top 20 Matches of 2011. It was a good year in terms of match quality


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Quoted this from WWEDVDNews:


> Jim Ross noted on Twitter that he was doing voice overs last Tuesday for “lost” Mid-South matches, many of which had never aired on TV. JR said it was a long day with WWE, during which he provided commentary to about 10 hours of footage. Some of these matches will be included on the planned Mid-South Wrestling DVD slated for September release.
> 
> 
> Ross referred to five matches he voiced over, which we’ve listed below. We can’t confirm these are to be included on the Mid-South DVD but they remain possibilities.
> ...


Rejoice in the goodness, WOOLCOCK & Yeah.


----------



## TAR (Jan 1, 2012)

Probably not the right place to post this but is there a video or something out there that is an uncensored and unedited version of this years Hall of Fame ceremony?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

TheAussieRocket said:


> Probably not the right place to post this but is there a video or something out there that is an uncensored and unedited version of this years Hall of Fame ceremony?


Dont know. It will be out in full with WM when it comes out on dvd/blu ray.

Uncensored though.... Doubt WWE would release it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lol at your sig Cynical, was that on Impact??!!


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

zep81 said:


> :lol at your sig Cynical, was that on Impact??!!


Yeah. Many lols to be had when I first saw it.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Been working on a bit of a project in the build-up to Mania, so thought'd post it here now i've finished

*Chris Jericho's Title Matches *

RAW 17/04/00 - Chris Jericho vs Triple H - ****
King of the Ring 2001 - Chris Jericho vs Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
SD 23/08/01 - Chris Jericho vs Stone Cold - ***
No Mercy 2001 - Chris Jericho vs The Rock - ****1/2
SD 23/10/01 - Chris Jericho vs Booker T - **1/2
Rebellion 2001 - Chris Jericho vs Kurt Angle - **1/2
RAW 05/11/01 - Chris Jericho vs The Rock - ***1/2
Vengeance 2001 - Chris Jericho vs The Rock - **3/4
Vengeance 01 - Chris Jericho vs The Rock - **1/2
RAW 10/12/01 - Chris Jericho vs Stone Cold (Steel Cage) - ***
Royal Rumble 02 - Chris Jericho vs The Rock - ***
No Way Out 02 - Chris Jericho vs Stone Cold - **3/4
Wrestlemania 18 - Chris Jericho vs Triple H - **
Survivor Series 02 - Chris Jericho vs HBK vs Triple H vs Kane vs RVD vs Booker T (Elimination Chamber) - ****3/4
Summerslam 03 - Chris Jericho vs Triple H vs Randy Orton vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash vs HBK (Elimination Chamber) - ***3/4
NYR 05 - Chris Jericho vs Triple H vs Edge vs Randy Orton vs Batista vs Chris Benoit (Elimination Chamber) - ****3/4
Vengeance 05 - Chris Jericho vs John Cena vs Christian - ***3/4
Summerslam 05 - Chris Jericho vs John Cena - ****
RAW 22/08/05 - Chris Jericho vs John Cena - ***

Armageddon 07 - Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton - ***
Unforgiven 08 - Chris Jericho vs Batista vs JBL vs Kane vs Rey Mysterio (Scramble Match) - **3/4
RAW 15/09/08 - Chris Jericho vs CM Punk - ***1/4
No Mercy 08 - Chris Jericho vs HBK (ladder match) - ****3/4
Cyber Sunday 08 - Chris Jericho vs Batista - **3/4
RAW 03/11/08 - Chris Jericho vs Batista (steel cage) - **3/4
Survivor Series 08 - Chris Jericho vs John Cena - ****1/4
Armageddon 08 - Chris Jericho vs John Cena - ***3/4
No Way Out 09 - Chris Jericho vs Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs John Cena vs Mike Knox vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) - ****
Survivor Series 09 - Chris Jericho vs Undertaker vs Big Show - ***3/4
Elimination Chamber 10 - Chris Jericho vs Undertaker vs CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio vs R-Truth vs John Morrison (Elimination Chamber) - ****
Wrestlemania 26 - Chris Jericho vs Edge - ***
SD 30/03/10 - Chris Jericho vs Jack Swagger - N/A
SD 13/04/10 - Chris Jericho vs Jack Swagger vs Edge - ***
Night of Champions 10 - Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs Edge vs John Cena vs Wade Barrett vs Sheamus - ***

Elimination Chamber 12 - Chris Jericho vs CM Punk vs R-Truth vs Miz vs Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler (Elimination Chamber) - ***1/2
Wrestlemania 28 - Chris Jericho vs CM Punk - ****1/2
Extreme Rules 12 - Chris Jericho vs CM Punk (street fight) - ****1/4
Over the Limit 12 - Chris Jericho vs Sheamus vs Orton vs Del Rio - ***3/4


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I've just started my favorite wrestler database, in which I will rate every match that one of my faves has on TV that is of a singles nature, triple threat, fatal four way, mitb etc. No tags. I will also try to rate their rumble matches but no Battle Royals.

Dolph Ziggler is up first.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Okay it's a lazy Sunday so need some specific match recommendations.

I want to watch some fast paced matches, matches that you describe purely as _*FUN*_

TV Matches as well as PPV matches are welcome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> 2
> EDIT: Forgot to give credit to Mark Henry's amazing Smackdown main event run in the latter half of 2011 as I'd definitely cite it as another factor as to why the quality was so great on both shows. It's no secret that a Henry injury + Punk being pushed back out of the main event due to Rock coming back and fucking everything up once again counted for a pretty bad dip in quality when it came to the first half of 2012 (Royal Rumble - Wrestlemania).


What the fuck are you talking about? Royal Rumble until Wrestlemania (actually ER) is the ONLY good part of that horrible year of 2012. The second half was so bad, it was depressing. I kinda want this year to continue being that bad in quality just so I can turn off completely and never bother coming back.



GOATAntics said:


> Man, Orton/Benoit from SS 2004 is so tedious at times. Their SD NHB Match from 2006 defeats it in match quality by a fair margin IMO. ***1/2 for SS while the SD match gets ****1/4.


Disagree about SummerSlam but gotta say all their matches together are awesome. Can certainly understand if somebody prefers their TV matches to SS but they're all as good as one another.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I wrong in thinking that 2011 was the best year since 2004 for the WWE? Look at all the awesome stuff that happened that year:
> 
> Summer of Punk
> Mark Henry's title reign
> ...


Most of these are not major enough to make it that good. Stuff like Ryder Revolution are absolutely irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Definitely not a bad year but best since 2004? Hah, never!

2005 was so much better. With all the great ring work and far superior roster. I've also enjoyed watching 2006 so far to 2011 as well. Since Orton was World Champion at least at some point during that year, I can accept that year as good plus there were lots of good matches. Now 2012 on the other hand... FUCK THAT YEAR!


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Am I wrong in thinking that 2011 was the best year since 2004 for the WWE? Look at all the awesome stuff that happened that year:
> 
> Summer of Punk
> Mark Henry's title reign
> ...


Very good year, as sick as I was of the Randy/Orton feud Christians heel turn was done well and they delivered quality matches. 



Patrick Bateman said:


> Ratings for the Austin set? :austin


His latest set? It's worth it for the documentary portion alone.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Okay it's a lazy Sunday so need some specific match recommendations.
> 
> I want to watch some fast paced matches, matches that you describe purely as _*FUN*_


First one that comes to mind is Angle/Benoit vs Edge/Mysterio from No Mercy 2002. Some others are Mysterio/Guerrero @ HHavoc '97 and Mysterio/Psychosis @ Bash at the Beach '96. Joe/Daniels/Styles @ Unbreakable '05.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Okay it's a lazy Sunday so need some specific match recommendations.
> 
> I want to watch some fast paced matches, matches that you describe purely as _*FUN*_
> 
> TV Matches as well as PPV matches are welcome.


Daniel Bryan and Ziggler had a match on Saturday Morning Slam a few weeks ago that was that.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

rton


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 50 of 2011? Don't know if I could do that. Here's a top 20 though:



Spoiler: top 20 2011



(****1/4)
1) CM Punk vs. John Cena Money in the Bank
2) Randy Orton vs. Christian Over the Limit
(****)
3) Randy Orton vs. Christian Summerslam
4) CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler Raw November 21st
5) Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler Royal Rumble
6) CM Punk vs. John Cena Summerslam
7) Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Kane vs. Wade Barrett vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Big Show Elimination Chamber
(***3/4)
8) Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio Extreme Rules
9) John Cena vs. Rey Mysterio Raw July 25th
10) Wade Barrett vs. Daniel Bryan Summerslam
11) Randy Orton vs. Christian Smackdown May 6th
12) CM Punk vs. John Cena Raw August 22nd
13) Randy Orton vs. Christian Smackdown August 30th
(***1/2)
14) Randy Orton vs. Christian The Bash
15) CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Alberto Del Rio Hell in a Cell
16) CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio Survivor Series
17) Mark Henry vs. Big Show Vengeance
18) CM Punk vs. Miz vs. Alberto Del Rio TLC
19) CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio Capitol Punishment
20) The Undertaker vs. Triple H Wrestlemania 27


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Question: Is this how the Ambrose vs. Regal feud ended? Was this their last encounter? Saw the first match, believe this is the second one. Enjoyed the match just wasn't sure if their feud went on pass this point.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Spoiler: Wrestlemania 29 cover


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Would love to make my own with Punk/Taker as the main picture.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just watched JBL vs Eddie vs Taker vs Booker T from Armageddon 2004. Never really been a big fan of this match and still not sure how to rate it. The start is pretty slow and sloppy, but once it gets going there's a lot of good action and it's going rather well. But then a really poor finish derails it again. Opinions on this?


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I actually like it a lot, somewhere between ***1/2 and **** for me. The Taker/Eddie interaction always leaves me wanting more though...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> This is my Top 20 Matches of 2011. It was a good year in terms of match quality


Late to the party but anyhow I agree with most of yours, I hated the Raw ec match so that goes way down. No love for Punk/Ziggler from nov ?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I think I have it at the 23rd place. Not a big fan of that match, I prefer their Rumble match better. I know that I'm probably the only one .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

now that their series looks like it may be done for a little how do you guys rank each match in the :cena vs unk series


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Are we talking just title matches for Punk/Cena? 

MITB 2011 ****1/4 (great match, HOT AS FUCK crowd, but some sloppy execution cost it)
Summerslam 2011 ****1/2
NOC 2012 ****

The HIAC match with Del Rio in 2011 is about ***1/2-3/4, and the triple threat with Big Show at Summerslam 2012 is about ***3/4. Heel Punk is gold.

On another note, watching Bret/Owen from Summerslam 1994 in the cage. Owen is a great heel - very fierce. Love watching these brothers go at it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Im sorry singles matches ppv and TV. ^^ I love their cage match I cant decide if its better then their mania match


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't know if I remember corectly, but didn't Punk&Cena had a match at RAW after Del Rio cashied his MITB briefcase in August 2011? If so, can someone throw some snowflakes for that match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watched Taker/HBK - WM26

****3/4 

Still as great as ever, great leg work by Shawn, bloody brilliant moonsault through the table, Taker was of course magical, and the final tombstone he delivered to Shawn was soooo fucking perfect, maybe his best ever one tbh, and a very emotional ending, those two embracing was such a special moment, incredible.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is it the match that Nash costed Punk the win ? if so I gave it **** good match the crowd was into it and a lot of false finishes.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yeah I think that's the one.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh yeah, good call. That was the number one contender's match between Punk/Cena and Nash randomly appeared to distract Punk. All he said was, "Hey Punk! Hey Punk!" or something like that. 

It was then supposed to Punk/Nash at Night of Champions, but wound up being Punk/Trips instead, which is a good thing. I shutter to think what Punk/Nash would have been like. We all know how Trips/Nash went.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Punk series :mark:

23/11/09: **1/2
14/12/09: FUCK THIS. 1 minute 30 second match. *DUD*
07/06/10: Can't remember this at all.
17/01/11: Above. Will watch these two matches right now in fact
07/02/11: 2 minute match
14/02/11: **3/4
13/07/11: ***
MITB 11: *******
Summerslam 11: ***3/4
22/08/11: ***1/4
Raw 1000: **
NOC 12: ****1/2
12/11/12: ***
25/02/13: ****1/2

That chemistry.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*CENA/PUNK:*

11/23/09: ****1/2*
12/14/09: ***
6/7/10: ***1/4*
1/17/11: ****3/4*
2/7/11: ***3/4*
2/14/11: ****1/4*
Elimination Chamber 2011: ******
6/13/11: ****1/2*
Money in the Bank 2011: *******
Summerslam 2011: *****1/2*
8/22/11: ******
Hell in a Cell 2011: ****3/4*
7/23/12: *****
Summerslam 2012: *****
Night of Champions 2012: *****1/4*
11/12/12: ****3/4*
Survivor Series 2012: ****1/2*
2/25/13: *****1/4*


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Cena/Punk:

MITB *****
Summerslam 2011 ****1/4
Night of Champions 2012: ***3/4
Raw 2013 : ****1/4

They still have a long way they can take the feud in terms of gimmicks. Sad we missed out on them having a Hell in The Cell last year. Could have been one of the best ever. Also would love an Iron Man match between the two ( just going to have to wait till WWE make the IRON MAN PPV).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Iron man match :mark:
Do you guys think the large number of normal stip matches they have had took away from their Feb 13 match ?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Dunno if and Iron Man Match would be that good, but I would love to see any gimmick match between Punk&Cena, but an I Quit one


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think if there's two current guys to pull off an iron man match it's Punk and Cena. I'd definitely pay to watch that.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd probably rather see Punk/Bryan in an Iron Man match than Punk/Cena. And I honestly don't want an "Anything Goes" Iron Man, because that feels like that they can't come up with enough to do so they have to resort to gimmicks. 

I will say though, that I'm watching HBK/Bret in their Iron Man match, and we're only 20 minutes in, and it feels like every 5 minutes they go back into a rest hold to kill time. Some nice moments already, though. Shawn is doing some nice work on Bret's arm. That psychology.

Edit: Right, I never want to see Punk/Cena in an I Quit match. In fact, Cena in an I Quit match is like Taker at Mania. About 99.9% predictable.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

^^This


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That discussion earlier made me go back in watch that raw episode from august. The night after summerslam and looking back how stupid was that Nash-HHH text message angle, Nash didnt get any text in the end ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What makes that so hilarious is that in order for me to believe Cena would lose an I Quit match, it would have to be against The Undertaker, and for The Undertaker to lose at Wrestlemania it would have to be against JOHN BOY. Cena vs Taker at Wrestlemania is the ultimate dream match at the XXXth anniversary of the biggest wrestling show in the world for that very reason ; The company's GOAT vs the face of the franchise in an unpredictable bout, gets no better than that.

Even if Rock/Brock happened, there's NO FUCKING WAY Cena/Taker doesn't main event. That would be beyond stupid for about 29938 different reasons.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just my opinion, but I just don't think we are going to get Cena/Taker next year, I do expect Taker to appear, as once again IMHO I think he will indeed retire next year, not saying I want him too of course not, just the feeling I have.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> That discussion earlier made me go back in watch that raw episode from august. The night after summerslam and looking back how stupid was that Nash-HHH text message angle, Nash didnt get any text in the end ?


There were about 8-10 different ways they could have gone to make that story really good. But instead, we got "Nash texted himself from Triple H's phone". :kenny

I think Cena/Taker is still likely. Why break tradition though? HBK and Trips both got rematches, why not Punk? unk


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's really only two options ; match w/ Cena, or match w/BROCK.

I highly doubt any major movie studio wants Rock to get in the ring and tear the shit out of himself again, so hopefully he stays away forever (highly doubt it though, FUCK).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i hope so Brock/Rock doesn't interest me in the slightest


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CENA vs PUNK

23/11/09: ★★½
14/12/09: ★★★★ (PUKE taps out, I win!)
7/6/10: Don't remember
17/1/11: ★★¾
7/2/11: ★★
14/2/11: ★★
13/6/11: ★★★
Money in the Bank 2011: ★★★★½
SummerSlam 2011: ★★½
22/8/11: ★★★½
23/7/12: ★½
Night of Champions 2012: ★★★¾
12/11/12: DIDN'T WATCH
25/2/13: ★★★★


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody wanna throw out The most overrated Undertaker match ever (a topic that doesn't get discussed much because let's face it, the guy is a legitimate candidate to be the greatest WWF/WWE worker ever)?

If somebody put a gun to my head and told me that unless I named Taker's most overrated match ever that they would shoot me (I don't know why anybody in their right mind would do that, but whatever), I would probably cite Austin-Taker from Summerslam 98 as Taker's most overrated match in all honesty. It's just a complete SHIT match with a ton of fuckery thrown in on the side, yet I've seen people throw four stars at it? THE FUCK? I get that it's one of the biggest non Wrestlemania matches in history (perhaps THE BIGGEST), but the match really isn't that good with half of it being attributed to the fact that both guys were banged up, with the other half being attributed to the fact that Austin-Taker have SHIT chemistry together save for a few matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Most overrated Taker match is WM27 for me. Just can't agree the 5 star or near 5 star ratings for it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I'm going have to agree with you KOK on Austin/Taker at SummerSlam 98. It had it's moments but it's not as good as it is revered by WWE or many fans imo. 

While we are talking about SummerSlam main events we don't rate as highly as others I will have to throw Punk/Cena from SS 11 in the mix. I just did not feel this match and what they were going for. It's still a very good main event *** 1/2 - *** 3/4, but not 4 1/2 star classic I've seen people give it. I love their MITB, NOC and Raw '13 matches much more.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

One of the Triple H matches from the last couple of years would probably be my most overrated Taker match (both of them the top 2). On one hand, while I do hold WM28 in higher regard than 27, seeing people throw ****3/4-***** and calling it a top 5 HIAC match is way over-doing it, not to mention a Top 5 Taker Mania match. On other hand, while WM27 isn't overrated to that level by as many people, and I've seen plenty come down on their opinions of it to a reasonable level, when it does get that kind of praise, it's way worse than hearing the same for WM28. When I see that match at ****1/4 or higher, let alone some ****3/4 ratings I've seen thrown for it, I honestly wonder at times if they actually watched the match and if so, how they managed to enjoy it to that level. It boggles the mind.

The thing with Taker is I haven't seen a bad match of his overrated. I mean, Cal overrates Taker/Austin BL 02, but he's the only one I've seen. Aside from an odd case like that, no bad/mediocre matches of Taker get overrated.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Taker vs. Austin at Summerslam 1998 is probably indeed the most overrated Taker match. Let's face it, between the times when Taker turned heel in 1998, until he left to nurse his injuries in September 1999, he was the shits. Didn't help matters that he could barely walk for most of that time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I fucking ADORE Punk-Cena from Summerslam 2011, always found it to be the less story driven but more technically sound version of the MITB 2011 match, even though I'm not a really big fan of the finish in the slightest, screw that shit ..... It was never mentioned again so in reality it was just a way to protect Cena at the end of the day. Same goes with Taker-HHH from Wrestlemania XXVII, I absolute LOVE that match, with both of those matches probably being my two personal favorite matches from that year TBH. 

I do like how when Taker went through his shit periods that it's actually acknowledged by his die hard fans, kind of like how GAME's 2002-2003 awfulness is mentioned by alot of us HAITCH marks for the most part. I'm MEH on alot of Hunter's babyface work in 2009-2010 anyways because I mean let's face it, HHH isn't a babyface at heart .... he's the fucking cerebral assassin.

The simplicity of the Mania XXVII match is what makes it for me ; it's Haitch and Taker throwing bombs at each other for a half an hour. They never degenerate into rest holds and shit, they just beat the shit out of each other and make it bigger and badder as the match progresses. From the entrances perfectly suiting the story of the match, all the way down to Triple H walks out and Undertaker is carted off despite Taker winning. If Haitch passes out and doesn't tap, it might honestly be a top 10 match in company history for me, because the whole "I'm going to end the streak or die trying" doesn't suit well with Hunter tapping and all.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Most overrated Taker match? Vs HHH WM 28. It's nothing more than ***1/2 for me.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

most over-rated taker matches are both HHH/Taker from WM 27 and 28. Don't get me wrong both were good and 28 was pretty fucking amazing but neither are anywhere near the ***** rating people dish out for them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I see people say the boiler room brawl with Mankind is something other than utter shite, so maybe that .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think **** 1/2* is a damn GREAT rating to give a match, even though I can definitely see where you're coming from on this one. Loved the story, hated some melodramatic portions of it, it's a great match but I certainly wouldn't put it anywhere near the five star mark like some individuals seem to do from time to time. 

Then again I can completely understand why somebody would say the exact same thing about the XXVII match, one of those HAITCH polarizing matches that seem to divide a fucking ton of fans.

& I thought the boiler room brawl was really fun on my last watch, once exams are over on Thursday and I'm all finished up for the semester / SUMMER, I'm gonna start reviewing random shit to occupy all of my fucking time ; TAKER'S DEADLIEST MATCHES being on that list of stuff perhaps. Have a boatload of JOHN BOY matches left to watch yet, like 40 PPV matches in total left and a bunch of TV tags, should take me a few weeks to plow through that. I'm over a month removed from starting it now anyways, might as well take another month to finish it all up and post a BEST/WORST list to top it all off. Need to pick another guy to do a project on for the summer sporadically, it'll probably be PUNK but who knows, I might go BIG SHOW or somebody for the LOLZ.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Speaking of Taker, I finally got around to doing my Taker/Orton series:

Taker/Orton WM 21 ****1/4
Taker/Orton Summerslam ***3/4
Taker/Ortons No Mercy ***1/2
Taker/Orton Armageddon ***1/2

The Wrestlemania match is definitely my favourite match between the two. I found the HIAC dragged on tbh. Not really a fan of that much. The casket match was just tons of fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Most overrated Taker match? I've seen plenty rate the JD 02 match vs Hogan ***+. Nope imo - that match was awful.

On that note, what's the most overrated Mania HBK match? WM 12 vs. Bret is my pick.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd agree on most overrated HBK Mania match being vs Bret. It depends on who you talk to though, some people love it. It's a bit of a marmite match that one.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Most overrated Taker match?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Triple H has had quite a few polarizing matches the past few years come to think of it:

-His matches against Taker at Wrestlemania 27 and 28
-His matches with Brock Lesnar (granted I haven't seen anyone put it the Mania match at ****+, but I've seen as low as * from a few people to as high as **** so that's pretty fucking polarizing)
-His match against Punk I remember would get anywhere from **-**** from people on here when it first happened. Haven't seen it discussed in a while.

The thing with Triple H is some will put his matches at a high rating, and the rest of us with some sense give them the correct ratings.  Hell, come to think of it, even Nash/HHH from TLC got some ***+ love. I mean, come fucking on! :lmao

Most overrated HBK match... I'd say is his match against McMahon at WM22. I've seen a number of people give it ****+ and frankly it's far more mind boggling than either of the Taker/HHH matches. Not only would I probably put it as HBK's worst Mania match, but I'd say it was Vince's worst Mania match to that point (thanks Bret for taking that spot eventually). It's not even a good match imo. **1/2 on a good day I'd give it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker-Orton series is easily Orton's best work in a series apart from perhaps his matches with Benoit. HOWEVER, I think how they structured Taker-Orton is essentially the blueprint for how a long term feud should be structured. You had the first match which was essentially Legend vs Legend Killer that slowly turned more personal as the time moved on, culminating in the ultimate gimmick match to end the year, fantastic stuff right there.

Literally every single Hunter match has been polarizing since he became a part timer ;

vs Undertaker (XXVII)
vs CM PUNK (NOC)
w/Punk vs Miz/Truth (VEN)
vs Nash (TLC)
vs Undertaker (WM XXVIII)
vs BROCK (SS)
vs BROCK (WM XXIX)

I've seen every one of those matches have ratings that fluctuate from one star to over four stars, seriously

& The Sledgehammer Ladder Match is great .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HHH/Brock SS gets **** from me. FUCK that Wrestlemania match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Most overrated Taker match?


I always thought that gets shit on universally.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Summerslam match I'm on the low end for Lesnar/HHH at ***, but I do feel it's a good match with some awesome moments and a good finish. I also think I could potentially go up on it with the right watch. Wrestlemania 29's match was complete shit though and the only relief is that I haven't seen a single person put it above the Summerslam match


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I remember being really disappointed that HHH/Punk was simply used on a B PPV. One of my dream matches and the story seemed rushed and wasted. Obviously part of the problem was that it was supposed to be Nash/Punk, but of course Nash got injured. Anyway, HHH/Punk could have been a big ass storyline with huge potential. The match was nothing special either. A straight wrestling match rather than no holds barred would have faired much better.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

zep81 said:


> I always thought that gets shit on universally.


Yeah was kind of a joke.....

Not sure if joke fail or interpretation fail.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know im going to get hated for this but most overrated is probably nwo 2006. I give it a **** which is still very good but no where near *****. I just didnt get into it that much and the all ankle work was to much


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It does get shit on universally :lol.

BROCK/GAME I is fucking amazing, I'm probably the biggest fan of that match on here, but It's legitimately one of my favorite matches ever and how the feud should have ENDED. THERE WAS NO FUCKING NEED FOR BROCK-GAME II, IT WAS STUPID. It didn't give us the match I was hoping for either (it was still really, really good though) so in the end it was entirely fucking pointless.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Taker-Orton series is easily Orton's best work in a series apart from perhaps his matches with Benoit. HOWEVER, I think how they structured Taker-Orton is essentially the blueprint for how a long term feud should be structured. You had the first match which was essentially Legend vs Legend Killer that slowly turned more personal as the time moved on, culminating in the ultimate gimmick match to end the year, fantastic stuff right there.


Completely agree. That is one of the best feuds from the last decade. And probably the best "lengthy" one.



KingOfKings said:


> It does get shit on universally :lol.


And I'm forced to clean it up every time. :side:

FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've never seen Angle/Taker NWO '06. I'm currently downloading a PPV 2006 pack so, will check out once that's one. 

Anyway, off the Taker topic for a bit. I was watching the 5 on 5 SVS tag the other day and I didn't know that Orton was the sole survivour for 3 years in a row. Damn, why didn't they keep this rolling? Could have been the streak of SVS.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Would have been cool. Unfortunately he got buried the next year in a 5-0 loss.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Yeah was kind of a joke.....
> 
> Not sure if joke fail or interpretation fail.


Lets call it a bit of both 

Any underrated Taker matches out there?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Lets call it a bit of both
> 
> Any underrated Taker matches out there?


idk if its really underrated but his match with rey to qualify for the fatal four way match on sd
just watched it yesterday


----------



## Parison Sapphire (Nov 15, 2011)

The discussion about Taker and Orton makes me want to watch their Mania 21 match. Think I'm going to have to watch it now :mark:.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> idk if its really underrated but his match with rey to qualify for the fatal four way match on sd
> just watched it yesterday


his series with Big Show in 08 as well except for the Casket match.

but the cyber sunday, smackdown cage and no mercy are just fucking great big slugfests.

watching some matches from Raw 2012, fuck the storylines but their was some damn good ringwork. Back when Cesaro was protected, even against Sheamus.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Undertaker vs. his hood is an under rated feud.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Orton:
WM- ****1/4
SS- ***3/4
SD- ****
NM- ***3/4
Armageddon- ****


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Downloading 2008 Smackdown. 

Was downloading it once before but I was running very low on space and decided against it.

Can't wait for HBK/Flair vs Edge/Hawkins/Ryder/Chavo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Taker:

Wrestlemania 21: ★★★★¼
SummerSlam: ★★★★
Smackdown 16/9/2005: ★★★★
No Mercy: ★★★★
Armageddon: ★★★★½

And speaking of 2008, I'm really unsure what to do now. I'm almost finished with 2006 and entering the end of my current project that comes to a stop with the Benoit tribute show. After that, I've been thinking about going back to the AE and watch from 97 until 2002, then continue where I stopped. But recently, I've been thinking about continuing through 2007 up until 2010 (mainly for Orton) but at the same time, I think the AE will be much faster to blast through and more fun.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ohh 2008 SD, always holds a special place for myself.

Taker/Show/Trips/Hardy/Benjy/MVP/Matt/KENDRICK :mark:

Also has JR & Foley on commentary, class.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton/Taker:
> 
> Wrestlemania 21: ★★★★¼
> SummerSlam: ★★★★
> ...


Attitude Era would be faster most of the matches are worthless but the segments and overall story lines are fun to keep up with.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Ohh 2008 SD, always holds a special place for myself.
> 
> Taker/Show/Trips/Hardy/Benjy/MVP/Matt/KENDRICK :mark:
> 
> Also has JR & Foley on commentary, class.



Edge, Morrison and Finlay too. 

Well Finlay for the first 1/3 of it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Forgot about Edge :$ his return at Survivor Series nearly saved the WORST MATCH OF ALL TIME. But sadly it didn't. That beard came close though.

I was thinking about Miz/Morrison earlier. Crazy how Miz basically became the more successful of the two, the "Michaels" of the team. I thought for sure Morrison was going to be the bigger of the two. He Jannetty'd things up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

97-02 would be faster since you would BLOW THROUGH 97-99 due to their being no Smackdown. If I were you I'd probably watch 97-02 and then go from 07 - whenever you're fucking bored with the product (probably in your case when PUNK became 1A in the company), that way you can do all sorts of LISTS and whatnot (best AE matches, best RA matches, etc).

I have no idea why people say the JANNETTY instead of the NEIDHART of the team.

Jannetty w/out HBK : IC title win, Tag Title win.
Neidhart w/out BRET : Nothing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> 97-02 would be faster since you would BLOW THROUGH 97-99 due to their being no Smackdown. If I were you I'd probably watch 97-02 and then go from 07 - whenever you're fucking bored with the product (probably in your case when PUNK became 1A in the company), that way you can do all sorts of LISTS and whatnot (best AE matches, best RA matches, etc).


Yeah, I think that's what I'll do. Plus there's also ECW now to watch which makes it even more time consuming. Not that it matters in 06 at least. I skip 90% of ECW shows anyways and the only thing I usually give a shit about is the main event but even now it's uninteresting since Show is no longer defending the title against WWE stars.

This has also caused me to cancel my original ECW project and instead, I'll just seek out whatever Benoit, Malenko, Eddie and RVD have that's worth watching from there.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

taker rey sd 10 *** 3/4
taker rey rr 10 *** 1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About to watch Cena vs JESUS @ Armageddon 2004, this storyline is fucked.

CENA GETS STABBED, I remember being younger and thinking that this was completely legit :lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watching Punk/Bryan from Over the Limit 2012. Don't think I've seen this since the PPV and DAMN. ****1/2 easily. Both guys were terrific. Punk's selling of the ribs and Bryan's selling of the leg is top notch. Finish was unique (though not really controversial) and kept the feud going. This also includes that great moment where Punk locks in the Figure Four and the two exchange slaps. LOVE this match.

Can't believe I'm doing this, but just started NASH/GAME from TLC 2011 in Sledgehammer Ladder match. This will be good for the lolz, but DAT NWO MUSIC THOUGH.

Well, Trips/Nash gets about ** and that's being generous. Some hard-hitting moments, but nothing much here. This shouldn't have even been a ladder match, but a straight no holds barred match. I guess the sledgehammer hanging "ominously" (as Cole said) above the ring had some meaning, but whatever. Nash throwing up the Kliq sign right before Trips finished him made me chuckle.


----------



## ThaKing (Jul 21, 2006)

Looking for a couple of ***** matches to watch before I crash tonight. Anything after 04 aside from HBK matches, as i have seen them all tons of times. Just looking for a couple great matches to watch to end the weekend. Thanks fellas


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*John Cena vs. The Rock *(_Wrestlemania XXVIII_)

I'm not gonna lie, after seeing their abomination of a match from this year I was pretty hesitant on going back and watching this one. Haven't seen it since it aired, but FUCK I do not remember it going this long... Anyway, to my surprise after seeing the build up vid (TONIIIIIGHT, WE ARE YOUUUNNNGGG!!) & watching the musical performances (MGK only, Flo Rida can fuck off) I was actually pretty hyped for the match. Really well put together, FUN (like the pun there?) vid package & I gotta say I liked MGK portraying himself & Cena as the underdogs and getting booed to hell.  LACE UP. Seriously though, the atmosphere is ELECTRIC and the first half of the match is actually really good. Loved Rock actually showing he can perform wrestling moves and upstaging Cena. Plus some legitimate structure was thrown in with Cena's work on the midsection (BEARHUG!~). Once the first AA & Rock Bottoms were hit though, the match slowed down tremendously. The long, overdone submission segments were either really sloppy (seriously, can Rock not apply a sharpshooter correct anymore or something?) or just took forever. They did a lot of laying down & slow ass climbing to to the top and it felt really weird to basically go back to square one after both guys had already hit their finishers for kickouts. The highlight of the back half of the match is by far the AA nearfall were Cena catches Rock off the cross body and rolls into it. Would've been a great way to end the match (ya know, if Cena won). Gotta say I really didn't like the finish though. A surprise Rock Bottom just didn;t seem like enough to keep a totally fresh Cena down, but it's whatever. Despite the back half being really damn slow, a decent portion of the match is really good & the crowd is awesome. I enjoyed it. (Y)

**** 1/4*


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

*HHH vs. Shawn Michaels - Summerslam 2002 - Unsanctioned match*

*****

I'm a 20 year wrestling fan but I've honestly never seen HBK's comeback match and what a beauty it is. The buildup is great beforehand, then the match starts, nice touch with HBK wearing street clothes.. HHH whoops HBK's ass and HBK sells like he's breaking his back each time for the first half of the match. Second half is a reversal with HHH taking a beating and doing one hell of a blade job... compared to HBK's piss poor one.

Great finish, great story told, a Must for any WWE Fan that hasn't seen it.. I need to watch their whole feud now.

Ps. Only thing I didn't like about the match was Earl Hebner but that's because I hate the refs that are so involved in the match. Lastly, JR and King were at their absolute best here.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Interesting rating for HHH/HBK. Don't know that I've ever seen anyone give it the full 5. I'm certainly a big fan of that match, but don't think I ever had it above ****/1/4. Great comeback for Shawn, and I like the finish alot.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HOLY SHIT! Someone else gave HHH/HBK the full 5, that's awesome! Everyone thinks I'm crazy for feeling the way I do about it, but everything in that match is so magnificent. Absolute war filled with emotion.

---------------

Just finished *Punk vs. Bryan* from *Money in the Bank*. Very good match but the AJ shit at the end really pissed me off and hurt the flow. Best parts of the match definitely happened when she wasn't around. That GTS to hurracanrana counter. :mark: Last 10 minutes or so are REALLY drawn out and that kinda sucks but the majority of the match is good stuff. **** 1/2*


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just gave Punk vs Cena's RAW match this year a second watch. It still holds up. A fucking awesome match and one of the best RAW matches I've seen in a while. *****1/4* for me. 

So far, my top MOTYC are:

1) Punk vs Cena RAW
2) Punk vs Taker WrestleMania 29
3) Kassius Ohno vs William Regal NXT
4) Jericho vs Punk RAW

DAT PUNK unk 

I still have to check out Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback at Elimination Chamber. I missed this match for some reason.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Need to re-watch Punk/Cena and Punk/Taker to see how they compare. Right now I have the Taker match above it as MOTY. Haven't seen Regal/Ohno yet but I'm in the mood for some wrestling tonight so that's on the menu.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Current MOTY list for me:

*# 5* - The Shield vs. John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback (_Elimination Chamber_) - ******

*# 4 *- *#1 Contender's Elimination Chamber Match: *Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kane vs. Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry (_Elimination Chamber_) *- *****

*# 3 - No Holds Barred Career Threatening Match: *Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H (_Wrestlemania XXIX_) - ******

*#2 - #1 Contender's Match: *John Cena vs. CM Punk (_RAW 2/25_) - ***** 1/4*

*#1 - *The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (_Wrestlemania XXIX_) - ***** 1/4*


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Well it was the first time I saw it bell to bell. I don't usually rate matches either but it could go down in the future, I just think everything clicks... Shawn is great in the match and HHH does a great job working on the back. I love the surprise finish because it shows how over confident HHH was.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The effect that HBK/HHH Summerslam 2002 had on me is similar to that which Lesnar/Cena had on others. Shawn came back from a devastating back injury, and nobody was sure about how well he would fare in his first match back. I loved Shawn's babyface performance in this match to the point where I suspend my disbelief even in rewatches of the match. *****1/2* for that match (same rating that I gave to Lesnar/Cena).

Found another hidden gem from 1999: Test vs. Shane McMahon from Summerslam 1999. Shane has to be the greatest "untrained" wrestler ever. I swear I cannot find a single match of his that I did not enjoy. The interference from the MSP worked well in this match not only to hide Shane's (kayfabe) shortcomings as a wrestler, but also to make Test even more of a sympathetic character. Lots of nice spots in this match as well such as Shane's elbow drop and Test tossing Shane into the MSP when they were sitting on a couch. We also do not see the long drawn-out punches and outside brawling that are customary with a typical 1999 match. ****3/4*


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Top 5 MOTY list:

1. Undertaker vs Cm Punk Wm29 - ***** 1/4*
2. Cm Punk vs John Cena Raw- ***** 1/4*
3. William Regal vs Kassius Ohno NXT - ******
4. The Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback EC - ******
5. Smackdown Elimination Chamber - **** 3/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Current MOTY List (going to partake in Regal/Ohno POST EXAMS)

5. The Shield vs Big Show/Randy Orton/Sheamus (Wrestlemania) : **** 3/4*
4. CM Punk vs Ryback (TLC ; RAW) : **** 3/4*
3. The Shield vs John Cena/Ryback/Sheamus (Elimination Chamber) : ***** 1/4*
2. CM Punk vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIX) : ***** 1/2*
1. CM Punk vs John Cena (RAW) : ***** 1/2*

Yeah. CM GOAT. That fucker could be my WOTY for 3 years in a row, that would be AMAZING.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

DR. PHIL



funnyfaces1 said:


> Found another hidden gem from 1999: Test vs. Shane McMahon from Summerslam 1999. Shane has to be the greatest "untrained" wrestler ever. I swear I cannot find a single match of his that I did not enjoy. The interference from the MSP worked well in this match not only to hide Shane's (kayfabe) shortcomings as a wrestler, but also to make Test even more of a sympathetic character. Lots of nice spots in this match as well such as Shane's elbow drop and Test tossing Shane into the MSP when they were sitting on a couch. We also do not see the long drawn-out punches and outside brawling that are customary with a typical 1999 match. ****3/4*


:yes

Absolutely love that match, one of my childhood favorites. **** for me & an amazingly satisfying finish to a great 'overcoming of the odds' story with Test.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hbk / hunter ss02- *****
Still an all time favorite of mine. I still :mark: like a bitch when I see it. As an life long hbk fan I never thought I'd see him wreste again


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Can't believe I'm doing this, but just started NASH/GAME from TLC 2011 in Sledgehammer Ladder match. This will be good for the lolz, but DAT NWO MUSIC THOUGH.
> 
> Well, Trips/Nash gets about ** and that's being generous. Some hard-hitting moments, but nothing much here. This shouldn't have even been a ladder match, but a straight no holds barred match. I guess the sledgehammer hanging "ominously" (as Cole said) above the ring had some meaning, but whatever. Nash throwing up the Kliq sign right before Trips finished him made me chuckle.


watched this a couple of months ago. Yeah, it's pretty bad.



> HHH v Kevin Nash (TLC 12/18/11)
> I actually wish this was worse than what it was. That probably sounds nuts, but this wasn't any good to begin with, so it being worse could have made it fun. Hey, shut up, I *am* making sense. OK, so I went into this wondering just how horrible on Earth it could be. Nash was a sloppy worker in 90s, and this was a time where you couldn't even say 'the 90s were ten years ago'. Trip wasn't really BAD bad in 2011, but I watched the Punk stuff recently and none of it impressed me. Throw in a ridiculous 'sledgehammer suspended in the air which you have to climb ladders to get to' stip and this had so much potential to be HHH v Scott Steiner the Ladder Match Edition. And that's why I'm a little disappointed it wasn't worse; this wasn't good to begin with, so instead of being dull and a bunch of nothing, it should have instead been an unintentionally comedic good time, like HHH v Steiner was. If that were the case I certainly would have been less fixated on playing snake on my calculator. So this starts with punches and elbows and my God I thought I was exaggerating all the times I said HHH yells 'DOOJ' or 'BOOH' every punch. He had a really quick punch flurry in this where he managed to squeeze those yells in each punch. It's almost admirable. Then Nash hits his corner turnbuckle armpits of doom and yells his fucking head each one as well. I thought it was only a matter of time before they went to outside and I don't know if I even got to finish that thought before they were out there. The outside brawling was easily the best part of the match. Nothing of too much note, but if you have a personal feud, fighting on the outside like this doesn't hurt. I've said this and that about HHH, but no matter how shitty he got (wasn't shitty here but w/e), he was almost always an interesting bumper, and I liked the one he took off of the elbow near the crowd rail. Nash's bumps were surprisingly......existent here. I mean this guy invented the quadricep tear and rolled over the announce table, fell into a table, and actually jumped when flung into the ring post. So Trip eventually works the leg and it's OK, but again, I wasn't invested in it and I can really only remember the figure-four with the ladder and the first sledgehammer shot. Um, sledgehammer. That was here; they did stuff with it. How much offense did Nash get in this match? I recall the sidewalk slam on the ladder that looked good, and a chokeslam. OH! And that Irish whip into the ladder in the corner which Helmsley took his signature over-the-top-rope-off-of-Irish-whip bump nicely for. Nothing here looked too good and this was below average, but it wasn't intolerable. Still wish it was HHH v Scott Steiner.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Totally agree about Test/Shane at Summerslam. Love the match, and the Mean Street Posse are gold. People had legit hate for them and Shane at the time. 

After the Punk/Cena talk from earlier, I decided to go back and watch their MITB encounter and I'm going to ****3/4. The commentary is the worst thing about this match by far. I get they're company people and needed to defend their company but the second half of this match turned into Cole sucking Cena's dick.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Curious who everybody had as the worker of the year every year from 2000 - present?

2000: Triple H
2001: Steve Austin
2002: Eddie Guerrero
2003: Brock Lesnar
2004: Chris Benoit
2005: Triple H (Yes I know he wasn't there for nearly a third of the year but fuck it, he was awesome)
2006: Chris Benoit
2007: JUAN CENA
2008: Chris Jericho
2009: ???
2010: ???
2011: CM Punk
2012: CM Punk

Have no idea who I'd pencil in @ 2009/2010.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, the *Cena/Kane Ambulance match* is ass. Absolutely nothing about it that would make you wanna watch it again. The AA spot off the Ambulance is fine, but what the hell did Kane actually land on? Chokeslam spot through the announce table looked weak as hell, Cena practically just fell wit little elevation. Everything else is random brawling with some weird wheelchair spots. ** 3/4*

EDIT: For 2009 I'd probably chuck Rey's name out there. Excellent IC Title run against Jericho, Ziggler, & Morrison.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I LOVE the Cena-Kane ambulance match, and here's why; 

Cena going into the match was breaking down, closer to "embracing the hate" than ever, as Kane believes he has finally manipulated external forces to get into Cena's head and degenerate his behavior into a worse state than ever before. How does Cena respond to this? By beating the shit out of Kane and actually having FUN doing it. As the match progresses, Cena realizes that he's getting back into his groove and thus "GETS HIS SMILE BACK", goofing off with the commentators and making a mockery of Kane in the process to show that he has conquered the hate and is moving on to the biggest match of his life.

Gave it ***** when I watched it about two weeks ago for the CENA project, a huge fan of the Cena character work in the match.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer Mysterio for me as well for worker of the year in 2009. Pretty much have the exact same as KOK for workers of the year, however I wanna throw Sheamus out there for worker of the year 2012. 

2010 however has me baffled

EDIT: totally forgot about Christian for worker of 2009 :mark: .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gotta be the Cena mark in you, brah. Match sucks imo. 

2010 worker... um... Morrison? McIntyre? Masters!? Someone that has a last name starting with M!? hahaha. No fucking clue, tbh.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

What about Orton in 2009? He did some great heel work and was easy to hate. Some matches didn't go so well, but in terms of character, he was among in the company. 

I'm kind of stumped for 2010. Punk with the Straight Edge Society was legit hated by fans, but maybe that was late 2009 into 2010.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2000: Triple H, The Rock, Chris Benoit
2001: Steve Austin, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle
2002: Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar 
2003: Brock Lesnar, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit
2004: Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Randy Orton
2005: Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Triple H
2006: Chris Benoit, Finlay, Rey Mysterio
2007: John Cena, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels
2008: Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy
2009: Christian, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho
2010: Christian, Chris Masters, Daniel Bryan
2011: CM Punk, Randy Orton, Christian
2012: CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shit, how'd I forget Christian? Yeah, he and Rey = 2009.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton is 2009 has WM XXV, JD, ER, BASH, NOC, SS, & HIAC matches against him ... He's honestly the LAST person I'd consider for WOTY in either 2009 or 2010. 

I haven't seen enough of 2009 or 2010 to determine who is WOTY, that's why I left it out, I magically assumed 2009 was Mysterio though .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*The Miz v Wade Barrett - Raw (4/8/13)*
Not totally sure if this was actually a good match or if I liked it because of how awesome the crowd was. Seriously, the crowd for this show was fantastic and a good demonstration of how much difference they can make to the viewing experience. This certainly wasn't bad though. There was a botch in there somewhere, don't remember what it was right now, but otherwise it was solid. Barrett's elbow to the floor was a great spot. I'm a fan of his finisher. Do people like it? Pleasantly surprised he won the belt back.

*Randy Orton v Sheamus - Raw (4/8/13)*
Okay this crowd just confirmed themselves as the GOAT. Crazy random chants. MIKE CHIODA chant was epic. Orton seemed like he was getting pissed. The match itself seemed solid enough but I can't lie, I wasn't really focusing. Orton trying to avoid Sheamus clobbering him in the ropes was good and something we don't see enough of. A lot of dudes just seem to let it happen. Show's beat down on Orton was great. Not really looking forward to Orton/Show though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Curious who everybody had as the worker of the year every year from 2000 - present?
> 
> 2000: Triple H
> 2001: Steve Austin
> ...


 wwe only:

00: Chris Benoit
01: Steve Austin
02: Eddie Guerrero I guess 
03: Eddie again?
04: Eddie Guerrero or Chris Benoit. Lean toward Benoit.
05: Eddie Guerrero
06: Finlay
07: John Cena
08: Uh...I gotta watch ECW in full like I say I will every second time I post in this thread. Could be Finlay, Matt Hardy...someone else. IDK
09: Rey Mysterio or Christian
10: Rey Mysterio
11: Mark Henry
12: Daniel Bryan. MAYYYBE Sheamus. I'd say definitely Sheamus if Bryan didn't have the TLC in December. 



I'd say Rey has 2010 wrapped up easily. The amazing Punk series, and good/really good/awesome matches with Swagger, Del Rio, Luke Gallows, Tyson Kidd, McIntyre, Taker, Mike Knox....fuck, everybody he worked with. He was incredibly consistent and diverse that year.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

00 - Trips/Rock
01 - Austin
02 - Lesnar
03 - Lesnar
04 - Benoit
05 - HBK
06 - Cena
07 - Undertaker
08 - Undertaker
09 - Punk
10 - Rey
11 - Punk
12 - Sheamus
13 (So far) - Punk


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

00 hunter
01 Austin
2002 Eddie 
2003 angle/benoit
2004 benoit
2005??
2006edge
2007cena/hbk
2008 jericho taker deserves mention
2009 jericho/punk/rey
2010 del rio
2011 punk
2012 ziggler
2013 ziggler
2013 ziggler


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK. TOTALLY forgot about Eddie in 2005, fucking shame on me .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Man, fudge this. Let's talk about Eddie for a little bit. His GOAT matches?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

A few of my faves, not an whole list;
Halloween havoc 97
Vs kurt wm20
Survior series 2002
S rvd raw 01?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Edge vs. Eddie in a No DQ match from Smackdown 2002 is fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

vs Rey Mysterio 6/23/05.

Any conversation about Eddie Guerrero being one of the greatest workers to ever lace up a pair of boots begins and ends here. Arguably the greatest piece of character work ever put on in a WWE ring.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

vs. Mysterio - Halloween Havoc *(*****)*
vs. Benoit - Vengeance 2003 *(****) *
vs. Angle - SD 2005 *(****1/4)* (Blows all their previous matches away)
vs. Lesnar - NWO 2004 *(****3/4)*
vs. Jericho - Fall Brawl *(****1/2)*

Eddie's was so freakin' awesome, so sad what happened. (RIP)


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

That's irrelevant said:


> *Dean Malenko vs Scotty 2 Hotty for the WWF Lightweight championship- Backlash 2000 *​
> Great match. The crowd went from being dead at the beginning of the match to being alive and invested in it onwards. The left legwork from Dean Malenko is top-notch here with Malenko using it to set up for the Texas Cloverleaf. Scotty 2 Hotty's selling of the left leg was pretty solid as well for the most part of the match. However, Scotty 2 Hotty completely forgetting to sell his left leg at the very end of the match annoyed me a little bit. The finish was awesome with Malenko scoring the win. A very exciting match that woke the crowd up. *Rating: ***1/4. *





Saint Dick said:


> I need to watch it again. I thought it was very good but not quite great. Felt it needed a few more minutes. I was close to adding it to my list but decided not to. That could change on a re-watch.
> 
> Watching this week's Raw now. Looking forward to Dolph's cash in.





GOATAntics said:


> vs. Mysterio - Halloween Havoc *(*****)*
> vs. Benoit - Vengeance 2003 *(****) *
> vs. Angle - SD 2005 *(****1/4)* (Blows all their previous matches away)
> vs. Lesnar - NWO 2004 *(****3/4)*
> ...


Great matches. I think the match at wm20 with kurt is criminally underrated, we see Eddie's lie cbeat a d steal gimmick at its best. The use of the boot at the end was brilliant IMO


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Great matches. I think the match at wm20 with kurt is criminally underrated, we see Eddie's lie cbeat a d steal gimmick at its best. The use of the boot at the end was brilliant IMO


The ending was brilliant, i'll admit but the whole match was way too basic and too forced, it didn't flow at all. Their SD match in 2005 is far and beyond their WM encounter.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

I agree, I just also really like the wm match as well and me and cal are the only one's ive seen wbo are high on it. Speaking of sd what is your favorite sd match ever?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)*
:mark: this is the best thing I've seen in a long time. Well not really because I'd put Punk/Taker from Mania above it but you get the point. What a performance by Regal. He was at his methodical, sadistic best when on offense and followed it up with some amazing selling. His sell job after Ohno rings his bell with kicks to the head was absolutely perfect. The finger work was difficult to watch at times, that's how brutal it was. When Ohno tried to bend his finger back into position... damn. Awesomely brutal. The strikes were great too. The baseball slide leading to the commercial break and the subsequent kicks to head looked deadly. If you haven't seen this yet you need to. Brilliant match.

Updated MOTY list:


1. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
2. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
3. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
4. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
5. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
6. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
7. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
8. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
9. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Eddie went out as the best worker in the entire company, that says everything you need to know about the guy.

That match with Batista was something else, whether you hate it because of the abrupt ending or whatever, it really is a sight to behold. To see Eddie fight his inner demons during the match and successfully triumph them, only for his demons (his willingness to break the rules and cheat) to ultimately cost him the match despite him being in a good place mentally could be a perfect metaphor for the man's life and untimely demise in general.

This may be fairly obvious but it blows my mind when I think about it ; two of perhaps the top 5 workers in North American history died within a span of two years when they both had much more to give to the business and more importantly, to the fans.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> I agree, I just also really like the wm match as well and me and cal are the only one's ive seen wbo are high on it. Speaking of sd what is your favorite sd match ever?


Taker/Angle 2003 with Angle/Lesnar Ironman, Austin/Benoit 2001 and Eddie/Edge No DQ not far behind.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> I agree, I just also really like the wm match as well and me and cal are the only one's ive seen wbo are high on it. Speaking of sd what is your favorite sd match ever?


Absolute Favourite SD match is Lesnar vs Benoit 2003. 

Best match would be a toss up between Taker/Angle 2003 and Austin/Benoit 2001, with Rey/Eddie not far behind.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

GOATAntics said:


> Taker/Angle 2003 with Angle/Lesnar Ironman, Austin/Benoit 2001 and Eddie/Edge No DQ not far behind.


Damn those are all great bouts. I had never saw tbat benoit / austin matcb till a few years back I wsnt to ssy on Austin dvr? But blows my mind how great Austin was in 01 but terrible af in 98, 99. 

Angle/ taker 03
Angle/ brock
Morrion/ rey
Austin/Benoit 
There were also a slew of great tag matches between the smackdown six in 2002


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Damn, I need to watch Lesnar/Benoit. What was your original rating for it shawnmichaelsisgod?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

I have seen it at ****3/4 but its ****1/2 range for me personally


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Since I have to get up and catch a taxi back into the city in two hours, looks like it's going to be an all nighter for this guy which essentially means one thing ; more wrestling. I suppose I'll watch Ohno-Regal or some more Cena at the moment, who fucking knows.

Brock-Benoit is ***** 1/4* IMO BTW.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^watch Regal/Ohno

I'm looking forward to Raw solely to see what they have in store for Punk and The Shield (and Taker? maybe HHH?) at Extreme Rules.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Damn, I need to watch Lesnar/Benoit. What was your original rating for it shawnmichaelsisgod?


I've got it at ***** 1/4* just like KOK, awesome match that I recommend to everyone (Y)

Also looking forward to seeing what happens in raw, as much as I would love to see Taker or HHH join up with the Shield, I'm thinking its just a tease and will be Team Hell No vs The Shield for the tag titles.

EDIT: I second that you immediately watch Regal/Ohno :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Fingers crossed for HHH, Taker and Hell No v Punk and The Shield. 

If they don't do that match or something along those lines what is there for Punk to do at the PPV?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Current MOTY list for me:
> 
> *# 5* - The Shield vs. John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback (_Elimination Chamber_) - ******
> 
> ...


Missed where the white font is located to read where Regal vs Ohno is. :hmm:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs Kurt Angle from Survivor Series 2005 is an AWFUL match.

WHY DID I WASTE MY TIME WATCHING THIS SHIT?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I really hope they have a rematch. (Regal/Ohno)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fingers crossed. 

You know Cesaro vs Neville is lined up for next week, Ownage?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> John Cena vs Kurt Angle from Survivor Series 2005 is an AWFUL match.
> 
> WHY DID I WASTE MY TIME WATCHING THIS SHIT?


Lmfao because you love wrestling. 
Where can 8 find the ohno vs regal match


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^Ohno/Regal: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...illiam-regal_sport?search_algo=2#.UWu9A0r6fwx



HayleySabin said:


> Fingers crossed.
> 
> You know Cesaro vs Neville is lined up for next week, Ownage?


Nah I didn't. Who's Neville?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Nah I didn't. Who's Neville?


PAC


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> John Cena vs Kurt Angle from Survivor Series 2005 is an AWFUL match.
> 
> *WHY DID I WASTE MY TIME WATCHING THIS SHIT?*


Isn't it obvious, :cena3.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Ohno/regal ****
huge fan of the selling as well ae the brutality of tbis match kind of had that old territory feel to it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena vs Booker T (Summerslam 2004) : *1/2 **
John Cena vs Kurt Angle (Survivor Series 2005) : *1/4 **
John Cena vs JESUS (Armageddon 2004) : *** 1/4*

When you watch three matches and JOHN CENA VS JESUS is the clear cut best one out of the three, something is seriously up. AT LEAST IT KNOWS WHAT KIND OF MATCH IT IS. FUCK. I actually had a ton of fun with an intense Cena against a vulnerable Jesus for nearly 8 minutes, brutal as fuck.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> John Cena vs Booker T (Summerslam 2004) : *1/2 **
> John Cena vs Kurt Angle (Survivor Series 2005) : *1/4 **
> John Cena vs JESUS (Armageddon 2004) : *** 1/4*
> 
> When you watch three matches and JOHN CENA VS JESUS is the clear cut best one out of the three, something is seriously up. AT LEAST IT KNOWS WHAT KIND OF MATCH IT IS. FUCK. I actually had a ton of fun with an intense Cena against a vulnerable Jesus for nearly 8 minutes, brutal as fuck.


Lmfao why aren't you watching his good material he has tons of it?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> John Cena vs Booker T (Summerslam 2004) : *1/2 **
> John Cena vs Kurt Angle (Survivor Series 2005) : *1/4 **
> John Cena vs JESUS (Armageddon 2004) : *** 1/4*
> 
> When you watch three matches and JOHN CENA VS JESUS is the clear cut best one out of the three, something is seriously up. AT LEAST IT KNOWS WHAT KIND OF MATCH IT IS. FUCK. I actually had a ton of fun with an intense Cena against a vulnerable Jesus for nearly 8 minutes, brutal as fuck.


That Jesus match deserves better, 8 minutes of PURE UNEDITED KICK ASS. I personally have it at ****1/4 *cause Cena is a fucking intense BOSS.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

all you cena fans are * happy


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Nah I didn't. Who's Neville?





Yeah1993 said:


> PAC


^

Which should mean with even a margin of time given, it will be worth a look. Their chemistry is absurd. As is Claudio/Cesaro with any junior or high flyer type worker.



King Kenny said:


> all you cena fans are * happy


The nature of the thread these days.

---------

Cena vs Jesus Street Fight is a pile of crap.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i dont think ive seen it, but these cena fans above seem to get excited about anything...

heres a good question, whats the WORST matches from these performers:

1. SCSA
2. CM Punk
3. Eddie Guerrero
4. Ric Flair. 

:troll


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey now, when I see Cena going out there and making a fool of himself on national television/PPV I'm more than willing to call him out on it (I.E literally 90 percent of the Cena matches I have watched lately from 04-05ish with Booker, Rene Dupree, etc, GROSS).

HOWEVER, I just got finished watching Cena-Jericho-Christian from Vengeance 2005. That's that shit I DO LIKE. That actually IS worthy of **** 1/2*.

WORST EDDIE GUERRERO MATCH ; Summerslam 2004 vs Kurt Angle. What a fucking pile of shit match that was.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Stone cold worst matches is anything from 99.
Cm pnk vs big daddy v 2006?
FIair? Maybe something from when he was old af
Eddie- don't know of any


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Worst Flair match would probably have to be a mess of a match from WCW. Preferrably the latter years, but I know that "Black Scorpion" nonsense vs Sting in the early 90's was lame too. vs Vince from Rumble '02 is a dreadfully boring match. Might be my least favorite from his WWE run off the top of my head.

Punk? Umm. I almost want to say a match I just watched from 2004 vs Danielson. Punk wasn't green in it, but he wasn't very good either. It was like ALL Danielson's credit that match the match morphed into something good. Danielson has damn near always been perfect. Punker wasn't far behind. Now both are in their prime & in the same location. It's wonderful. For WWE purposes, I guess Punk vs Morrison SummerSlam '07 wins. lolz that match is tremendously terrible. So glad Punk craps on their matches via his documentary.

Austin vs Scott Hall from WM 18 sucks. He probably has a bigger stinker out there somewhere. It's late. My brain isn't running the best right now. This wins. It's a bad match either way so it fits regardless if it was his "worst" ever or not.

Eddie, well I think KOK said it. Other than that match I can't think of another I find to be "bad". If he ever wrestled Konnan, I pick that. _(wait, I know they did on Nitro in Feb of '97 and I do think Eddie carried to worst wrestler ever to a tolerable TV match, so scratch that.)_


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

King Kenny said:


> i dont think ive seen it, but these cena fans above seem to get excited about anything...
> 
> heres a good question, whats the WORST matches from these performers:
> 
> ...


And Hayley, what you mean to say is Cena/Jesus was a barbaric slobber knocker of a beating, accompanied by the great storytelling of Cena being immune to all offenses and one of the first glimpses of his superman instances. 

:cena


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What's everyone's opinions on the HBK/Angle 30 minute iron man match from Raw somewhere in 2005?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's everyone's opinions on the HBK/Angle 30 minute iron man match from Raw somewhere in 2005?


Okay, *****. Man, Great feuds insist on ruining themselves by having gimmick/special type matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cody, I think you're missing a certain 2013 match from your "worst Punk matches". 

While technically speaking the match isn't bad because of Punk, it's indeed the biggest piece of shit I've seen him involved in.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

The stunner was the best thing about the Scott Hall match, by far actually.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Scott Hall took the stunner really well. I always thought RVD was an underrated seller of the stunner. He didn't take many but when he did they looked unique.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Speaking of RVD getting stunned. 4 stars for the No Mercy triple Threat.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That's exactly the match I was thinking of when referring to RVD selling the stunner, though he did take a few on Smackdown around that time too. I like that match too, probably should watch it again though as not sure exactly what stars I'd give it.

Also just watched Angle/Benoit from Unforgiven 2002. This match of theirs doesn't seem to get talked about as much as their other encounters at RR 03, WM17 and the cage match on Raw 2001, but it's still very good. Each man trying to out-do the other and there's some great counters when exchanging the submissions, as well as solid mat work. ****3/4* - it definitely deserved a little more time.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Cody, I think you're missing a certain 2013 match from your "worst Punk matches".
> 
> While technically speaking the match isn't bad because of Punk, it's indeed the biggest piece of shit I've seen him involved in.


KOK telling it like it is again.

*Two* certain 2013 matches. God i wish i could erase those from my mind.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

:rock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's everyone's opinions on the HBK/Angle 30 minute iron man match from Raw somewhere in 2005?


Better than the crap at WrestleMania. Never minded the Iron Man, tbhayley.



KingOfKings said:


> Cody, I think you're missing a certain 2013 match from your "worst Punk matches".
> 
> While technically speaking the match isn't bad because of Punk, it's indeed the biggest piece of shit I've seen him involved in.


I forgot all about those. That's probably a good thing. K, Rumble match wins as Punk's worst. How sad, Rocky. How sad.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Have to concur with Punk's worst match(es) being against The Rock. Boo.

Not a fan of the Angle/HBK Mania match Cody?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Rock truly is an abomination on all of mankind.

I mean, you can argue that him coming back in 2011 was one of the worst things to happen to the WWE in the quality department EVER. 
How many people buy a show doesn't have any effect on how much I like the product, thus ruining Rock's lone positive ; name value.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Also, I would give around 4 stars for the Austin/Angle encounter for the wwe title on raw.

btw. What is the best Flair dvd set available?


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

The best Flair one I've seen is Ric Flair Definitive Collection from just after he retired. Really good doc and a lot of great matches on it, the whole DVD made me a much bigger fan of the guy than I was before.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Off my shady memory, these are probably just as deserving of being listed as his worst:

Punk/Umaga (Extreme Rules 2006) - their other PPV match was pretty good
Punk/Taker (Breaking Point 2009) - DAT MONTREAL SCREWJOB
Punk/Show (NoC 2010)

But holy poo-poo, The Rock and booking stunk the living crap out of his matches.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> The Rock truly is an abomination on all of mankind.
> 
> I mean, you can argue that him coming back in 2011 was one of the worst things to happen to the WWE in the quality department EVER.
> How many people buy a show doesn't have any effect on how much I like the product, thus ruining Rock's lone positive ; name value.


His name value isn't his lone positive though. Also, there have been far worse things to happen in this company's history. Lets not go overboard here, though that seems to be a thing with you and Rock.




Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Cm pnk vs big daddy v 2006?


This would be correct. No way was Punk's matches against Rock worse than this. Punk would most likely agree with this as well.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'd happily take Punk/V over Punk/Rock I & II 

At least his matches with V had some kind of structure to them.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> I'd happily take Punk/V over Punk/Rock I & II
> 
> At least his matches with V had some kind of structure to them.


So did the matches with Rock. The bad thing about the Rock matches was that both Rock matches had terrible overbooked endings. I dont see what was so bad about anything else. 

Punk shined in those matches/feud, and with Rock being there, put him out to a lot of new folks to see how great he actually is.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I would love for somebody to give me valid reasoning as to how The Rock has positively affected the quality of the product since his return. He's dragged down the guys he has been working with in the ring, and he spends 20 minute overruns rambling on about random nonsense that has nothing to do with any of the aforementioned awful matches.

Anyways, going to enjoy the next Rock free year by not talking about that fucker at all.

Just watched the NYR 06 Chamber match, what a pile of shit. ** 1/4*.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> So did the matches with Rock. The bad thing about the Rock matches was that both Rock matches had terrible overbooked endings. I dont see what was so bad about anything else.
> 
> Punk shined in those matches/feud, and with Rock being there, put him out to a lot of new folks to see how great he actually is.


How did his matches with Rock have structure? I fail to see it. 

It was overbooked, i agree but that just tipped it over the scale of awful. Punk looked *awful* in those matches and that's coming from a great Punk fan. Rock was knackered after about 2 minutes meaning they had to compensate with resthold after resthold. One move after another, no structure at all. They looked lost out there. The ending just made things 10x worse, the lights going out and Cole just screaming at the top of his lungs was most annoying.

The feud just showed exactly what WWE wanted to show. That no one bar Cena is above Rocky. Punk didn't gain from the feud at all.

& Don't even get me started on the EC finish fpalm


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What pisses me off about Rock's return the most other than the fact that he's been atrocious the entire time is how they could have just had the Rock-Cena match @ 28 and had Cena go over, ending that nonsense once and for all. If Rock was just going to come back, why did they have to squeeze the fucking life out of everything he did? Have ONE Rock-Cena match, have Cena go over, and you have essentially the exact same year as the whole redemption angle was complete bullshit. There was literally no need to build Punk up only to feed him to somebody who never needed the belt and wasn't going to give any effort anyways, it was a fucking disgrace.

Now if we get Brock-Rock it's going to be an awful waste of BROCK'S awesomeness due to their being a 0 percent chance that rock will lose and a 0 percent chance that it'll be a good match.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I would love for somebody to give me valid reasoning as to how The Rock has positively affected the quality of the product since his return. He's dragged down the guys he has been working with in the ring, and he spends 20 minute overruns rambling on about random nonsense that has nothing to do with any of the aforementioned awful matches.
> 
> Anyways, going to enjoy the next Rock free year by not talking about that fucker at all.
> 
> Just watched the NYR 06 Chamber match, what a pile of shit. ** 1/4*.


How you feel about the match quality and how he "drags others down" is all subjective. It is what it is. Hell I agree that it was far from the best performance from Rock and his opponents and it is down to Rock. Im not even saying the matches were god like. 

And the 20 minute nonsense overruns is a big overreaction. As usual. You act like every single promo hes had involved Rock out there cutting promos where it didn't have anything to do with his upcoming feud/match. And that is not the case at all. Has the Rock been involved in some fuckery? Of course. They all do at some point, but dont sit there and act like thats all hes done in the promo area. Hes been in a ton of promos that involved him about hyping up what was coming up in his feud. Either he was 100% serious with it, or he was serious for the majority and threw in his Rock schtick for the crowd. Creating the balance. You may not like what was said but he has done it. You let one or two promos (Crackhead/Twitter trending) or one or two side comments (cookie puss) affect your judgment over his entire run.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> How did his matches with Rock have structure? I fail to see it.
> 
> It was overbooked, i agree but that just tipped it over the scale of awful. Punk looked *awful* in those matches and that's coming from a great Punk fan. Rock was knackered after about 2 minutes meaning they had to compensate with resthold after resthold. One move after another, no structure at all. They looked lost out there. The ending just made things 10x worse, the lights going out and Cole just screaming at the top of his lungs was most annoying.
> 
> ...


I dont see how Punk didn't look good. He owned the offense and had great exchanges in both matches. The EC match had better structure and better storytelling by far. All thorugh the match Punk trying to get into Rock's head by making him angry, spitting in his face, trash talk, slap in the face. It was all there. Rock was more into the offensive side because of this and Punk was himself as usual. Good wrestling and holds, making the most out of what he could. And he wasn't knacked after two minutes in come on. Two minutes. This gassed thing is blown way out of proportion. 

Like I said, the finish was the true thing that was top notch terrible for both matches.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

I might start collecting wwe dvd's. Does anyone have any tips on how to build a good collection? Also does buying a used version of a dvd affect the value of your collection? I've seen some rare out of print dvd's for like £30 on amazon but the used version's are only around £9. Is it better to buy a new copy or save some money and buy a used copy for much cheaper?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everything in wrestling is completely subjective, hence why certain individuals can cite Rock-Punk I as being anything more than a flaming pile of garbage. My issue with him isn't TWITTER or COOKIEPUSS or whatever awful things he has to say, my issue with the Rock stems from the fact that he hasn't entertained me at all since his return ; not very impressive for somebody who is supposed to be "the most electrifying man in entertainment". Also the fact that he can be as awful as he wants to be and still main event over the guys who will go out there and give me something worth watching in the ring / listening to on the mic. I don't give a fuck if he's a part timer or not ; when BROCK comes back he seems to give 110 percent, so it's not because "he's never there" rather then the fact that when he is there he sucks complete balls.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HWRP said:


> I might start collecting wwe dvd's. Does anyone have any tips on how to build a good collection? Also does buying a used version of a dvd affect the value of your collection? I've seen some rare out of print dvd's for like £30 on amazon but the used version's are only around £9. Is it better to buy a new copy or save some money and buy a used copy for much cheaper?


Buying used is fine. The only thing it will "hurt" is resale value down the line but it's gonna be used anyway even if you buy it new, assuming you actually watch the dvd. 



HayleySabin said:


> Missed where the white font is located to read where Regal vs Ohno is. :hmm:


Hahaha. Just missed the cut, brah. I gave it *** 3/4. Great match due to all the things people have talked about (psychology on Ohno's fingers, Regal's awesome selling of the blows to the head), it just didn't quite scream MOTYC for me. Didn't really like the finish but that's about the only negative to it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Underrated Taker match - *vs Diesel (WM12)*

Pretty good big man match IMHO, Nash gets a ton of offence, even does Snake Eyes (acknowledgeed by Vinve as that move), Taker survives two Jacknifes, lots of big moves, Taker flying all over the place, pretty darn good.

Oh, and Nash saying 'I am the shit" coming into the ring, awesome little moment lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One match that I never heard anybody talking about before in here HAS to be the Vengeance 2007 main event, that match was fun as shit (just gave it a watch). LASHLEY FLYING ALL OVER THE PLACE BAH GAWD.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Buying used is fine. The only thing it will "hurt" is resale value down the line but it's gonna be used anyway even if you buy it new, assuming you actually watch the dvd.


True haha, I intend on watching them and keeping them so I don't think it should matter too much  Do most used dvd's come with everything a "new" copy of a dvd would? I'm probably going to try find some rare dvd's on amazon or ebay (used versions) but don't want to get scammed or end up with a dvd in shitty condition.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Used DVD's are just new DVD's that aren't sealed and have likely been watched . There are some shitty ones out there with the discs scratched to hell and the cases looking like hell, but most sites give you info as to how good they are etc. Most used I've bought have been like new.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Used DVD's are just new DVD's that aren't sealed and have likely been watched . There are some shitty ones out there with the discs scratched to hell and the cases looking like hell, but most sites give you info as to how good they are etc. Most used I've bought have been like new.


Thanks for the tip cal, appreciate it 

Random ratings:

Flair/HBK WM 24 - ****1/4
Orton/Taker WM 21 - **** 
HHH/Taker WM 17 - ***3/4 (didn't like it as much as I did on my last watch, still good)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The prices of new DVDs + the amount of new DVDs that get released every month is a huge reason why I'm taking to time to go back and fill up my collection with past titles for cheaper prices while the newer titles experience a price drop. It's only if there's a MUST SEE DVD that I'll buy it as soon as it comes out.

Who am I kidding, I'm going to buy it regardless ... I bought one of the worst PPVs of the last decade (Rumble 2013) in the first week it came out :lol.

Since this IS a DVD discussion thread, what's everybody's number one DVD that they NEED to have that they currently don't have in their collection? I'm going to have to come out and say that it's probably the Smackdown 2009-2010 set as I've heard some decent things about it. THAT or RAW: The Beginning. There's not that many multi-disc sets that I don't own that were released from the E' now anyways.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember the last time I bought a wrestling DVD new when it FIRST came out. Maybe... WM 27, just because it was WM. Since then I've waited for a sale or something.

Picked up a stack of DVD's and Blurays all brand new recently from Play.com sellers and SV's sale though. About 20 for under £40.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Son of a bitch.

Every time I think about the fact that you guys over there have/had Silvervision, it kind of pisses me off that we don't have TAGGED CLASSICS over here. I'm from CANADA too, which means I can't even take advantage of the cheap U.S used DVD stores for the most part because I still have to pay ridiculous shipping costs. That's why I'll usually buy my DVDs in bulk online and get like 15-17 on sale for 100 bucks.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Are tagged classics worth buying? And do silvervision still sell wwe dvd's?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HWRP said:


> Are tagged classics worth buying? And do silvervision still sell wwe dvd's?


YES, Tagged Classics are worth buying. Events that are otherwise never released on DVD, completely unedited and unblurred. Unless you are super desperate for original releases of certain things, TC's are great for the likes of WM 17+ other 2001 PPV's etc. SV right now have until... June I think to get rid of their current stock, and then that's it . They will be selling TNA DVD's after that (think Clearvision do right now actually).

Yet to order from freemantle, and doubt I will since they are a fucking rip off and their collection blows atm. Only new releases for the time being, though they do claim they will have a back catalogue as well as their own version of tagged classics. We'll see.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

The ultimate ric flair collection is three disk full of matches and its awesome af. The definitive collection wbich came out in 2008 is great if you're into the documentaries too. Awesome the match quality is great but what do you expect on a flair dvd the guy is the goat ar selling be good make anyone look great, I mean look at sting andnhe was just mediocre at best imo


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Everything in wrestling is completely subjective, hence why certain individuals can cite Rock-Punk I as being anything more than a flaming pile of garbage. My issue with him isn't TWITTER or COOKIEPUSS or whatever awful things he has to say, my issue with the Rock stems from the fact that he hasn't entertained me at all since his return ; not very impressive for somebody who is supposed to be "the most electrifying man in entertainment". Also the fact that he can be as awful as he wants to be and still main event over the guys who will go out there and give me something worth watching in the ring / listening to on the mic. I don't give a fuck if he's a part timer or not ; when BROCK comes back he seems to give 110 percent, so it's not because "he's never there" rather then the fact that when he is there he sucks complete balls.


Please, the CookiePuss stuff was something you were just rambling about a few weeks ago. You are still wrong about him doing nothing but 20 minute overruns that has nothing to do with the feud. The way I see it, is that you are judging his entire promo work over his fuckery of promos in that style. Like I said, Rock isn't a saint and he has done those silly promos, but his entire line of work since the return was not made up of this. You may not have liked them but to say thats all hes done on the mic is silly.

If he hasn't entertained you, fine. Feel that way, but there are things that you go overboard with and pretty much wrong on and that was it. You dont have to like the guy. Say what you want, feel how you want, whatever its just that you treat his involvement as murder to a child.

Rock can go out there and main event because hes still someone that can be used in that capacity. Not every one thinks hes awful so it works out, and this entire run was pretty much dedicated to one of his biggest fans in John Cena. Who Im sure has had a blast over these two years. That still counts at the end of the day.

Brock is a beast, and being a heel who can play the ass kicker role is something easy for him to do. He doesn't really have to do much but I am not undercutting him in any way. It works for him. I dont see why you needed to bring the part timer argument up. Rock is just there and doesn't have any character depth or direction. Most still buy it and still like it, so it works. Hes there for the good time. Im pretty sure if Rock was back to progress and grow, and really get deep, he would easily slip back into it. Reprise the Hollywood heel role or something.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Hopefully he doesn't have the chance. 

You put Cena over, albeit terribly but you put Cena over, now go and be a moviestar. Don't get back in the ring.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 26th July 2004 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit (World Heavyweight Championship Iron Man Match)*

So here we go, sixty minutes for the World Heavyweight Title. As you would expect from an iron man match, it starts off relatively slow with both men trying to conserve energy. After tying each other up in the corner briefly, Benoit twice tries to lock in the Crossface but HHH is wise to it and escapes almost instantaneously and regroups on the outside. A few minutes later he tries to hit the Pedigree but Benoit escapes quickly as well. Both men showing that they now know each other very well and are wise to the other's biggest threat. Benoit gradually gets on top as he works on HHH's left leg, looking to weaken it in preparation for the Sharpshooter. Triple H stops Benoit's momentum with a nice DDT. HHH aims some strikes at Benoit's chest area, before going for the Pedigree. Benoit eventually counters into the Crossface. HHH tries to roll through but Benoit is able to counter and roll him up for the first pinfall of the match. *Benoit 1-0 Triple H.*

After returning from a commercial, Benoit is on top and working on Triple H's chest area with an abdominal stretch. The Game is eventually able to counter and hip tosses Benoit to the outside, who lands heavily on his lower back. HHH notices this and begins to target that area, first by ramming Benoit into the ring apron. He continues the punishment by whipping Benoit into the turnbuckle multiple times, before executing a backbreaker. Triple H is in complete control until Benoit knocks him to the outside and hits a suicide dive. Both men recover and get back into the ring, before Benoit goes back to working on HHH's leg by locking in the Figure Four. HHH eventually escapes. Benoit gets to his feet first and hits three consecutive German suplexes. He then goes to the top rope but misses the Diving Headbutt as The Game rolls out of the way. Benoit is then whipped sternum first into the turnbuckle, which HHH follows up with the Pedigree to even the scores. *Benoit 1-1 Triple H.*

Benoit is clearly in a lot of pain now and HHH being the cerebral assassin takes advantage and knocks Benoit to the outside looking to win a fall but countout. Benoit manages to stop the count at 8 but HHH knocks him back outside. He sets up the ring steps and suplexes Benoit front first right on top of them which looks very painful. HHH gets back in the ring and Benoit can't stop the referees count. *Benoit 1-2 Triple H.*

Back from commercial, Triple H is still in complete control. During the break he suplexed Benoit on the ramp, and now throws him halfway across the ring with a front suplex. The Game whips Benoit into the corner a few more times and really dissects Benoit by working heavily on his now injured back. He whips Benoit across the ring and hits him with a big Double A Spinebuster to pick up another pinfall. *Benoit 1-3 Triple H.*

The Game is still in control and with time on his side things a looking very rosy. Benoit is still in a lot of pain and hasn't mounted much offense over the last 10-15 minutes. Triple H continues to beat him down and tries to put away the match for good by going for the Pedigree. Benoit however is able to counter and locks in the Sharpshooter. Triple H sells the pain superbly, even biting his own thumb at one point. He does make it to the ropes but Benoit drags him back into the middle of the ring. HHH scratches and claws but Benoit has it locked in tight. After being in the hold for a good few minutes, HHH finally succumbs and has no choice but to tap out. *Benoit 2-3 Triple H.*

Now only leading by one fall, Triple H rolls to the outside and tries to waste a little time. Benoit is having none of that and tries to get him back into the ring. HHH gets in some clubbing blows and heads to the top rope. As we know this is never a wise move from The Game and as he comes off the top Benoit counters into the Crossface. The Game sells well again (HHH surely one of the best submission sellers) and eventually is able to get his foot on the ropes. Benoit breaks the hold but as HHH gets to his feet he locks it in again and forces The Game to tap for the second time in the match. *Benoit 3-3 Triple H.*

Upon seeing Benoit's comeback, Batista and Flair arrive at ringside. With HHH distracting the ref, Batista throws Benoit headfirst into the ring post on the outside, busting him open. HHH goes for the cover back in the ring but Benoit kicks out. Benoit recovers to hit two German suplexes, before the third is blocked and HHH is knocked into the referee. This allows Evolution to take control and Flair sneaks a steel chair to HHH. Benoit takes the others out But then gets clocked with a massive, violent chairshot to the back of the neck. Really nasty blow. There's no referee but Bischoff brings a second one down, but Benoit kicks out at two! HHH is visibly upset and takes out this referee now. It's still looking good for Trips but then suddenly Eugene (urgh) arrives through the crowd. Eugene hadn't been seen on Raw in weeks. He then preceeds to take out Evolution and then hits HHH with a big chair shot before rolling the referee back into the ring. Benoit crawls agonizingly slowly over to Triple H, and lays an arm on top of him. Chioda counts the three and Benoit wins it with 5 seconds to spare and retains the World Heavyweight Title. *Benoit 4-3 Triple H.*

It's always hard to rate a match this long, as there's always going to be some slow, plodding parts. But I never felt bored throughout this one, as HHH and Benoit have great mat work and managed to make the slower control segments very physical. Throughout the match, both men showed they knew the others game plan and this added to the story well. It was perhaps looking close to a four star rating but then of course Eugene had to arrive. Why must Eugene ruin these Benoit/HHH 2004 matches for me? All I wanted was a proper finish between the two! Anyway, his involvement (and Evolution's somewhat) really hurt the ending and that will naturally drag the rating down a bit. Still, a solid match but it definitely could have been better. But hell, it was free on Raw so I'm not complaining.

****1/2*



Spoiler:  So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Vengeance 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 26/7/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit (Iron Man) - ***1/2
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He can't go one promo without dropping some ridiculous pop culture reference. Go back and find more than one promo where he does this since his return, it has just been unbearable. You say The Rock has no direction and he's just out there having fun? Well then I guess it's Vince's fault for putting somebody who offers nothing in the quality department as the main event of nearly every damn show.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

A Cena fan criticising ROCK For being too corny in his promos :lmao :lmao

Like I said before, if we're going to judge a promo by 1 word then let's judge the 'legendary' summer of punk by that one segment where he (Punk) attempted to throw up. Yeah, awful. Fact is, babyfaces say corny stuff in the modern WWE. Punk came up with goatface, toolbox and "you're stupid and you have no friends" and clown shoes but you don't label him as a bad mic worker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena and Punk can get in a ring and not make a mockery of professional wrestling.

In reference to Cena & Punk ; Cena's always been like that but can go into all out serious mode with no stupid comedic references as shown in the promos leading up to XXIX (including the Q & A where Rock had to resort to using a "monkey's ass" remark, of course), while Punk's a fucking GOD on the stick anyways so who cares about him.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena and Punk can get in a ring and not make a mockery of professional wrestling.
> 
> In reference to Cena & Punk ; Cena's always been like that but can go into all out serious mode with no stupid comedic references as shown in the promos leading up to XXIX (including the Q & A where Rock had to resort to using a "monkey's ass" remark, of course), while Punk's a fucking GOD on the stick anyways so who cares about him.


 Again, you are judging a promo by just one word. I'm sure Rock said "monkey's ass" when Cena said "I have to beat the Rock" but I honestly can't see why that would ruin the whole promo. It's just one or two words that Rock has always used. ROCK doesn't go into serious mode? Well look back at his first promo with Punk. The content was mostly intense bar a few words (cookie puss, a word he hasn't used since). Lets see, Rock clearly put over Punk by saying how he embarrassed the Rock when he knocked him out, how badass Punk is and how impressive the title reign has been. Rock finishes of the segment with telling Punk that he is going to kick his ass at the Royal Rumble. The seriousness is all there. Or you can go back to the first segment with Cena (2013) when Rock mentions the Lance Armstrong line or in the Q & A session where I remember even you praised the Rock's performance. And Cena can be serious but not all the time. Aren't you forgeting last year that ROCK threatened Cena but all Cena did was smile at him? Or Cena's Royal Rumble promo on the go-home show? Or when Lesnar punched Cena during their brawl and all Cena did was smile back at him? 

I'm not picking on Cena but I hate double standards. Cena did better than the Rock this year (in the promos between them) but there was a moment were Cena laughed at the Rock when Rock told Cena he was full of crap but that didn't bother me at all. Cena's facial expressions were enough for me to get entertained. I'm not going to pick on minor aspects of the promo and completely ignore the rest. No one is saying Rock's story time promo was relevant but in his defence, he wasn't the only one to cut an irrelavent promo on that week. Remember that bromance segment between Heyman and Punk? Heyman quit and then changed his mind. How was that relevant to the story?


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Hopefully he doesn't have the chance.
> 
> You put Cena over, albeit terribly but you put Cena over, now go and be a moviestar. Don't get back in the ring.


He'd get back in if he wanted to. It is not that big of a deal. 




KingOfKings said:


> He can't go one promo without dropping some ridiculous pop culture reference. Go back and find more than one promo where he does this since his return, it has just been unbearable. You say The Rock has no direction and he's just out there having fun? Well then I guess it's Vince's fault for putting somebody who offers nothing in the quality department as the main event of nearly every damn show.


So Rock made a mockery of wrestling? Come on now.

Also there isn't anything for Vince to be at fault for because the end game was putting his guy over one of the all time greats. Rock got to do what he wanted and what most people pay to see him do in doing so. This is what Cena wanted and Im sure he was delighted. 

Also, whats wrong with using monkey ass. Its not really a comedy thing, its just a way of words. This is once again you taking some comments and spinning it into something its not. The Q&A segment was one of Rock's more serious moments with Cena. As was the promo on the old school RAW. You dont have to like what was said, but he was serious those nights. Cena is just like Rock with crazy one liners in promos, shooting Rock down and bypassing Cena is dumb in itself. You use the notion that Cena can do without it, and so can Rock. Hell, as for Cena/Punk, Cena killed Punk and partly the title when he called Punk's reign irrelevant. Rock on the other hand actually sold it as an incredible and historic feat.

The Rock cut a promo on Smackdown face to face with CM Punk right before the Rumble and he did not cut a single joke, or was being goofy at all. He came out, didn't adress the crowd like he usually does, got in Punk's face, sold the match, his thoughts on Punk working with the shield, and went over the fact he was going to beat him Sunday and take his title. Wasn't 20 minutes, wasn't long and rambling. Quick , serious and to the point.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My point was that Cena is hit and miss (STAR WARS & Skidmark187 come to mind as some of the worst promos I've ever seen) with his seriousness vs LOLTROLLCENA Attitude, where as the Rock can't go into all out serious mode without dropping at least one pop culture reference in an attempt to solicit a cheap laugh from the crowd. He's ALWAYS been like it and although I can appreciate some of the work Rock did in the ring from 00-03ish, I've always felt he was the most overrated mic worker ever despite being one of the most charismatic guys ever (THERE IS A DIFFERENCE). 

Whatever, let's not turn this into a Rock-Cena pissing contest. 

Watching Cena-Sheamus from MITB 2010 and I seriously forgot this match even existed, it's easy to tell why. BORING AS FUCK (so far, think they're attempting the SHOW-CENA style so we'll see how things develop).


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> My point was that Cena is hit and miss (STAR WARS & Skidmark187 come to mind as some of the worst promos I've ever seen) with his seriousness vs LOLTROLLCENA Attitude, where as the Rock can't go into all out serious mode without dropping at least one pop culture reference in an attempt to solicit a cheap laugh from the crowd. He's ALWAYS been like it and although I can appreciate some of the work Rock did in the ring from 00-03ish, I've always felt he was the most overrated mic worker ever despite being one of the most charismatic guys ever (THERE IS A DIFFERENCE).
> 
> Whatever, let's not turn this into a Rock-Cena pissing contest.


 Fair enough. Lets agree to disagree :cena3 :cena3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

> Jim Ross mentioned on Twitter that besides the Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor match, he also did new voice over work this past week for the Mid South DVD of a Jim Duggan vs. Buzz Sawyer arena match and the Jim Duggan vs. Ted DiBiase tuxedo street fight loser leaves town coal miner's glove match from the Sam Houston Coliseum.


WON reported that.

HOLY SHIT.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> where as the Rock can't go into all out serious mode without dropping at least one pop culture reference in an attempt to solicit a cheap laugh from the crowd.
> 
> Whatever, let's not turn this into a Rock-Cena pissing contest.


But he has, as I just said. 

But whatever indeed, debate was good while it lasted.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

My 2006 PPV is downloaded :mark:

Staring things off with Triple H vs Big Show NYR '06. Never seen it before but I've heard some things.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> My 2006 PPV is downloaded :mark:
> 
> Staring things off with Triple H vs Big Show NYR '06. Never seen it before but I've heard some things.


I vaguely remember that, the buildup to the match was enjoyable.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That match is truly 18 different kinds of awesome, cerebral assassin at his finest honestly, picking the hand apart while Big Show sells it like a straight up boss and actually makes you feel for him as a sympathetic babyface against the mega-DICK Triple H. Hearing about that match just makes me depressed that KING OF KINGS Haitch will probably never be back.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watched Regal/Ohno. Pretty great match. Even Regal's pre-match promo was awesome. His theme = 

Pretty stiff match, as is expected every time Regal steps into the ring. Shed a tear when the crowd was chanting "You still got it!" after Regal won. Selling from both men was top notch. Are all NXT matches like this?!?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH/Show definitely an underrated match and had good buildup as MoveMent said. HHH was in total asshole mode during that feud, which is a big (Y) from me.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

HHH/Big Show was great. HHH just destroyed the hand in pure heel mode and Big Show sold it perfectly, good little match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, HHH's KoK character is awesome. 

As for his best heel performances, the Show match is great. His beatdown of Eugene is pretty hard to beat, though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Trips/Show is awesome, psychology and storytelling at it's finest and grade a selling by The Show. ***1/2.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Anyone know how the Regal vs. Ambrose feud ended and how many matches they've had together?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Could someone perhaps throw some ratings at Taker's 1997 PPV matches, going to do a rescoot of Taker in that timeframe and what to know, what I'm getting into, before hand.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Show/HHH NYR is a very good match with grade-A psychology. Show had a pretty awesome year with ECW. His matches with Flair and Taker were awesome.

RATINGS:

Show/HHH NYR- ***1/4
Flair/Show ECW 7/11- ***1/2
Taker/Show ECW 7/18- ***1/2

Edit:

Taker in 1997 I can't help too much with, but here are some ratings:

vs. Sid WM13- **
vs. Bret SS- ****
vs. HBK BB- ****3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They had two matches w/ the last one ending in a draw, didn't they? Or were there more?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Show's ECW run was awesome I loved his match with Batista that the crowd shitted on the entire match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> Could someone perhaps throw some ratings at Taker's 1997 PPV matches, going to do a rescoot of Taker in that timeframe and what to know, what I'm getting into, before hand.


Cal is likely the go-to for this, but I'll throw some matches your way that are a must-watch from Taker's 97.

Final Four vs Vader/Bret/Austin
Revenge of the Taker vs Mankind
Summerslam vs Bret
Ground Zero vs HBK
Badd Blood HIAC vs HBK 

Might be forgetting some lesser matches but those are the top 5 imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just stay away from the match w/ FAAROOQ @ KOTR 97, it's fucking garbage.

vs Bret @ ONO is a personal favorite of mine, check it out.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> They had two matches w/ the last one ending in a draw, didn't they? Or were there more?


Show/HHH? I believe they had another match during that tournament leading to WM22. Don't remember anything about the match itself though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Was referring to Regal-Ambrose .

As for HHH-Show, they had a rematch on RAW (awesome as well) which led to the triple threat #1 contender's bout for Mania. Haitch and Show really do have some awesome chemistry though, just another one of those underrated series' of matches from Paul Wight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cal is likely the go-to for this, but I'll throw some matches your way that are a must-watch from Taker's 97.
> 
> Final Four vs Vader/Bret/Austin ****3/4
> Revenge of the Taker vs Mankind ****1/4
> ...


Threw in my STARS for those matches. Also:

Vs Vader RR ***
Vs Vader Canadian Stampede ***1/2
Vs Bret One Night Only ****1/2
Vs Sid WM **3/4 (a GOOD match, but needed about 10 minutes taken off it lol)
Vs Austin A Cold Day in Hell ***

And some TV matches that might not be necessarily great, but fun to see:

w/ Sid Vs Vader & Mankind March 10th Raw
w/ Dude Love & Austin Vs Bret, Owen & Bulldog July 21st Raw
w/ Mankind Vs HBK & HHH August 18th Raw

And there are about 6 or 7 matches with HHH in the year too, but I don't remember any being that good, but it has been a while. A match with Bulldog too but again don't remember it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SID has had better Wrestlemania main events than XXIX, let that sink in.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not sure how I forgot ONO vs Bret.

edit SID was awesome. Survivor Series 96 main event remains one of my all-time favorite matches to this day.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SID's pyro was so fucking boss. 

"WHO'S THE MAN?!?!?!"


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Crowd adored him that night, too. That one guy who was in the front row of like every 90s PPV (pretty much the "BROCK pose guy" of the Attitude Era) hugged SID after the match and told him "YOU'RE THE MAN. YOU'RE THE MAN, BABY." :lmao That fan was awesome. He was legit ecstatic that Sid won.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Trailer for the new Foley DVD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THAT GUY IS SO FUCKING AWESOME, LEGIT.

I thought I saw him attend a few PPVs in the RA Era, same with the Tye Dye Guy and a few others :lol.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Trailer for the new Foley DVD


Goosebumps~! I'm glad the Micker is getting his due in 2013. 

Easily the set I'm most looking forward to this year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Trailer for the new Foley DVD


Excellente', sure its out in the UK too next week, wanna get the Nitro DVD but might get this now lol. Didn't think it was out yet and I've been looking forward to it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Vince NEVER gives Mick enough credit, like EVER.

Despite being one of the more popular wrestlers in history, it seems as if WWE doesn't value Foley as much as most of the fans do, why is this exactly I wonder? I heard some rumor about Triple H being mad about people saying that Foley made him (I highly doubt it's true) and shit a few months back.

That's hilarious considering that FOLEY is Game's best opponent by FAR. I'd go out on a limb and say that it's a top 5 pairing in WWF/WWE history TBH, it's in the Punk/Cena category below HBK/Taker & Austin/Bret TBH.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Foley basically did make him, so Idk by HHH would be mad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley > HHH too btw. Not trolling or joking or shit either btw. Mick might very well make my top 10, top 20 at worst, while HHH wouldn't make my top 1000 50 probably.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Although HHH is my all-time favorite, it's close for me as to who is "better."

Promos: Foley
In-ring: This is a toss-up for me. Foley was clearly adept in the brawling/hardcore environment, but HHH wasn't a slouch here either. HHH was the better non-brawler of the 2.
Drawing power: Probably HHH.
Charisma: Close, but probably Foley.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I agree. Foley and Trips complimented each other tremendously. 

RUN DOWN OF FOLEY/HHH:

King Of The Ring 1997 - ***1/2
Canadian Stampede - ***3/4
Summerslam 1997 - ****
Raw Is War FCA Sep 1997 - ***3/4
One Night Only Sep 1997 - ***1/4
Royal Rumble 2000 - *****
No Way Out 2000 - ****1/2


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Nice to see Cal pimping Vader vs Taker at CS IYH 16, was worried that people were going to overlook that one.



The Lady Killer said:


> Crowd adored him that night, too. That one guy who was in the front row of like every 90s PPV (pretty much the "BROCK pose guy" of the Attitude Era) hugged SID after the match and told him "YOU'RE THE MAN. YOU'RE THE MAN, BABY." :lmao That fan was awesome. He was legit ecstatic that Sid won.





KingOfKings said:


> THAT GUY IS SO FUCKING AWESOME, LEGIT.
> 
> I thought I saw him attend a few PPVs in the RA Era, same with the Tye Dye Guy and a few others :lol.


This guy?:

https://www.facebook.com/WWESuperFanVladimirinHOF

Picture of him with Sid is on that page.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao that's him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol :lol :lol

HE WAS ON PIPER'S PIT ONCE APPARENTLY.

BTW, Brock's going to be on RAW tonight to begin his feud for Extreme Rules ; THAT'S FUCKING AWESOME. If I were to take a guess, I'd be willing to bet that it's either the rubber match w/Hunter or Punk, those are literally the only two guys it can be at this point anyways. Would love to see Punk-BROCK main event so that we would enter some kind of parallel dimension where Cena's the WWE Champion who never main events (PAYBACK is in Chicago, remember).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What!!!!!! Brock is on Raw, hope to fuck your not trolling dude, fuuuuuuuuccccckkkkk yeah.

Please don't say HHH again lol, its like a running joke.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brock is on Raw for sure? Also, is it guaranteed that he's fighting at ER? Hope so. He better win this time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm all for BROCK/HHH III, as it allows BROCK to come out of the series as the clear winner and it gives room to perhaps a BRUTAL LMS match or some shit like that. Plus, where it's not Wrestlemania, they're more than likely to get away from bleeding those buckets .

That way HHH doesn't retire but BROCK comes out of the feud as the clear victor ; a win for EVERYBODY.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

On the subject of *Foley*...I did see some people in here throwing out lists for WWF/E WOTY a few pages back, but 98-99 was overlooked for obvious reasons. 

In those circumstances it wouldn't take a lot of decent matches to be a candidate, therefore Mick has to an obvious candidate for WWF WOTY 98 based on his fun tag match with Funk against the Outlaws at Mania XIV, very good main event with Austin at Over the Edge and spectacular stunt fest with Taker at KOTR. He was also involved in the one half decent match at Survivor Series that year in the main event; that really took some doing seeing as the whole event was just a glorified movie. 

Austin is probably the only other candidate, but a lot of his ppv matches were fairly average or grim that year, unlike during his outstanding 97 run (before the neck injury). The only decent matches I remember him having were against Michaels at Mania and the aforementioned Over the Edge match.

Seriously though, it's like a best of the worst competition. The turd that has been rolled through the most glitter, or in Mick's case, the most thumb tacks. That's me belittling those worker's abilities because they were far better than that, but as we all know the WWF didn't give a fuck about the wrestling back then, just shock value.

I'm just going to assume that most of the tv matches that year were garbage seeing as that was par for for the course in that era (98-99 at least). If anybody has watched WWF 98 more recently (including tv matches, poor you!) then please step in, by all means.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It definitely wouldn't be Austin in 98. Breakdown triple threat + Summerslam 98 = AWFUL.

The vote would HAVE to go to Foley, wouldn't it? I can't really think of anybody else that would be deserving of the award.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Please not Trips. Brocks been back 1 year and 11 months of them will have been feuding with Trips. If they continue the feud it will be bordering on Rock/Cena levels of irritation for me.

Would not mind Brock vs Cena or Punk.

inb4 Brock quits via Tout again for 6 months.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Vengeance 2004:

Tomko/Venis- DUD
G.Cade&Coach/Tajiri&Rhyno- *1/2
Jericho/Batista- DUD
L.R/Flair&Eugene- **1/2
Kane/Hardy- **1/4
Orton/Edge- ***
Victoria/Holly- *3/4
Benoit/HHH- ***1/2


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Summerslam 98 main event was boring as fuck and had zero heat, the crowd were absolutely dead.

I've tried sitting through the triple threat main event at Breakdown before (lovely old tagged classics) but can't see it through to the end.

Austin also had a couple of shit outings at Survivors (who didn't to be fair?) and I'm not really a fan of his first blood KOTR match with Kane.

Foley it is then.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just read what the main event of Extreme Rules is going to be :lol.

NO SPOILERS DAMN IT.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damnit KoK where are you finding these things?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Just read what the main event of Extreme Rules is going to be :lol.
> 
> NO SPOILERS DAMN IT.


Could just put spoiler tags.

What is it? :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My local grocery clerk filled me in via Tout.

:brock

FUCK, Meltzer or whoever took it down so maybe it's not set in stone. The match is INTERESTING to say the least and I'd definitely be up for it :lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Foley doc looks like a great watch. 

*Ohno/Regal NXT* was cool beans. The hand/finger work was really hard to watch at times and Ohno having to click his fingers back into place? Damn. This match had such a different vibe to it. Even the video package they aired before it was different. It was so gritty and just not very WWE like which is why I liked it so much. First half was a bit slow but the second half really picked up. My only complaint would be the finish as it just seemed to come out of nowhere after all they had done to each other up until that point. The selling of the ear/head shots from Regal was masterful. Fantastic match. I look forward to another one if they have it.

****3/4*

:brock on Raw? Count me in.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal needs to have another run on NXT. Just have him tear through a bunch of guys and then work extended matches with the more talented prospects. Regal/Bray Wyatt interests me a ton based on Bray Wyatt's character alone. If this PAC/Neville guy is as good as people say, then that would be a tremendous match to have too. THE SHIELD still frequent NXT, so Regal/Rollins would be awesome, as well as potentially another AMBROSE match. Regal/Richie Steamboat would make me :mark: so much because I adore Regal's matches with Ricky Steamboat. PUT REGAL BACK ON MY FUCKING TV DAMMIT.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Austin in 98 and especially 99 was warrior and hogan bad. 97 and 2001 he 2as a bad ass motherfucker


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm totally down for Brock/HHH III at Extreme Rules.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Did anybody see BRET's review of BROCK-GAME II? :lol :lol :lol

It's worth checking out.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Could someone perhaps throw some ratings at Taker's 1997 PPV matches, going to do a rescoot of Taker in that timeframe and what to know, what I'm getting into, before hand.


*Royal Rumble vs Vader - ***1/4
In Your House: Final Four - ****1/2
Wrestlemania 13 vs. Sid - **3/4
In Your House: Revenge of the Taker vs. Mankind - ****1/4
In Your House: A Cold Day in Hell vs Stone Cold - ***3/4
King of The Ring - **1/2
In Your House: Canadian Stampede vs Vader - **** (Fucking love this match )
SummerSlam vs. Bret Hart - ****
In Your House: Ground Zero vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
One Night Only vs. Bret Hart - ****1/2
In Your House: Bad Blood vs. Shawn Michaels - *****
In Your House: D-Generation X vs. Jeff Jarrett - ***


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm totally down for Brock/HHH III at Extreme Rules.


Me too.

@ KoK - link please.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Did anybody see BRET's review of BROCK-GAME II? :lol :lol :lol
> 
> It's worth checking out.


Where is that?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol :lol :lol

God I LOVE Bret.

Start @ 5:40 :lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Did anybody see BRET's review of BROCK-GAME II? :lol :lol :lol
> 
> It's worth checking out.


I remember him saying that he knew what was going to happen in both Rock/Cena and HHH/Brock matches before they happened and that they were predictable. Something along those lines. 

He also took quite a dump on basically all the backstage agents on WrestleTalkTV last night. Said that Arn, Malenko, Rotunda etc didn't know what the hell they were doing. He gave an example of one time Arn was giving off to the Nexus guys because they did something wrong in a match or whatever and Bret was thinking to himself that these guys don't know shit because they never drew any money. I personally thought his argument was only worth a 4/10.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well Bret never drew either so Idk what his problem is.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret's good at evaluating current talent I do believe, it's just that I don't think he's good at gauging how good the guys were when he was performing. He's spot on about all of his comments pertaining to the new crop of guys, but when it comes to talking about a Ric Flair or an Arn Anderson he seems to have no clue what he's saying.

Still <3 him though. Going to see him at a live event in like a month too, can't wait to ask him a GAME related question :lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I just saw what the current plans are for the Extreme Rules main event.........

:lmao

Yeah. Peeps just going to LOVE that one lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rep it to me plz Starbuck.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Can someone PM/Rep/Link me to these Extreme Rules plans please, I can't find them. :side:


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I'm okay with Brock/Triple H III, but that stip? No thanks.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> :lol :lol :lol
> 
> God I LOVE Bret.
> 
> Start @ 5:40 :lol.


4/10 for HHH/Lesnar :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Rep it to me plz Starbuck.


Done. 

DAT STIPULATION


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Spoiler: ER Main Event?



Is it Cena Vs Ryback?



Just tell me yes or no .

Bret Hart... I love the guy's in ring work, he's had a ton of great matches that I enjoy, but fuck, I couldn't read through his book and I have no real interest in hearing his opinions on anything.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I absolutely ADORE the idea for the Extreme Rules main event, not even going to lie.

& No Cal, doesn't involve either man .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Damn, can't watch that video on my bloody phone, take it he pans the match then.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If that ER match actually happens I suspect a lot of people are going to lose their shit lol. 

:vince3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's a win-win situation now .

Perhaps I'll be able to look back @ Mania and enjoy it a little more if that comes true.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Regarding ER main event:



Spoiler: ER



A third ridiculously garbage match between the two? HOORAY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might do something tonight that I haven't done in a long time; get into bed and watch a wrestling PPV for just the fun of it. No reviews, no stars, no analysis, just FUN. Just need to decide on what to watch. One of my new purchases I think. But which?

NOC 2011
HIAC 2011
Vengeance 2011
Backlash 2009
December to Dismember
Unforgiven 2006
New Years Revolution 2006
Cyber Sunday 2006
Vengeance 2006


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I need this ER info. Don't hold out on me people.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Vengeance 2011, go for it .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ER info to me too please if someone can oblige.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Click on Wrestlinfan35's Spoiler up top and take a GUESS :lol.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

There's a thread on it in the WWE PPV section.

^ :lol


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

*Extreme Rules = 4/10.*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The fuck just happened in Boston?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> The fuck just happened in Boston?


What happened?

Edit: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/04/15/boston-marathon-explosion.html

Fuck..


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Saw something on twitter about explosions at the Boston marathon.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2 explosions went off at the finish line of the Boston Marathon. Another device reported at the Mandarin Hotel in Boston also.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This fucking world man....

I want to make an Extreme Rules joke, but damn.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If this is terrorist related, which it most likely is, then fuck this shit. Seriously. The footage of the streets covered in blood is crazy. Sorry to take things off topic but damn.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It could be just some crazy motherfuckers though.

Look at what's happened over the past few decades when it comes to violent scenes in the U.S. .... Some people just want to wreak anarchy ...


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

This is one of the explosions. A bit horrifying to see, watch with caution. 

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-explosion-at-the-boston-marathon-2013-4

Fucking hell, man.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Shoked that I haven't heard the news till now. Terrible, just terrible. Dunno if the terrorists were involved, but it is terrible either way


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, it's Goddamned official: there's NOWHERE you can go where you can feel 100% safe in the fucking world of today. Cinemas, marathons, post offices, not even kindergardens are safe. Fuck... 

Thank God I live in a "safer" place (Portugal), but nowadays I still don't see how can anyone breath fresh air without sensing danger in any corner.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I like the rumored Extreme Rules main event. Not the best stip but it could be good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's intriguing, and that's why I adore it.

:lol @ Cena not main eventing when he's champion, as he probably won't main event Payback either if Punk takes time off and makes his comeback there in like 10 weeks (whoa that's crazy, there's only two PPVs over the next 10 weeks... What is happening to the WWE?).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hate to be "that guy" but there is a thread in the anything section for the Boston incident, so please use that to discuss it. Try and keep things on topic in here please.

----------------------------

I was pretty shocked when I saw the date for ER; WWE having THAT much time between WM and the next event seemed crazy. I just hope they USE all the time they have. I can't remember which event it was, but I seem to recall a PPV either last year or the year before that had about SEVEN WEEKS between it and the previous event... and WWE pretty much only used the last 2 weeks to build to the event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm shaping a Best Of PG Era list, here's the current looks so far:

HBK/Jericho GAB 2008
Taker/Edge SSlam 2008
Jericho/HBK NM 2008
Jericho/Cena SS 2008
Swagger/Christian ECW Feb AND Backlash 2009
Taker/HBK WM 25
All Jericho/Rey 2009 matches
Orton/Cena BP 2009
Taker/HBK WM 26
Smackdown EC 2011
Taker/HHH WM 27
ALL Orton/Christian matches
Smackdown MITB 2011
Cena/Punk MITB 2011
Cena/Mysterio Raw 2011
Cena/Punk SSlam 2011
Taker/HHH WM 28
The three ER 2012 Main Events
Punk/Bryan OTL 2012
Rybell-No/Shield TLC 2012
Cena/Punk Raw Feb 2013
Taker/Punk WM 29

And this is only the beggining :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They're going into CRAM mode for the fall, starting to see a pattern here actually.

When Part Timers work - Longer Build Ups

No Part Timers - More PPVs to make up for the lack of buys.

DAMN IT WWE.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Not intrigued by the proposed main event at all. Just seems unnecessary when the feud is basically done.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Hate to be "that guy" but there is a thread in the anything section for the Boston incident, so please use that to discuss it. Try and keep things on topic in here please.
> 
> ----------------------------
> 
> I was pretty shocked when I saw the date for ER; WWE having THAT much time between WM and the next event seemed crazy. I just hope they USE all the time they have. I can't remember which event it was, but I seem to recall a PPV either last year or the year before that had about SEVEN WEEKS between it and the previous event... and WWE pretty much only used the last 2 weeks to build to the event.


Wrestlemania 29? They had something like 5/6 weeks between ER and Mania this year didn't they? Then they only ended up using 3 of them. 



BANKSY said:


> Not intrigued by the proposed main event at all. Just seems unnecessary when the feud is basically done.


If that whole dramatic report about Rock walking out is true (lol) then that could very well be the reason why it's happening at all because it legit makes no sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Wrestlemania 29? They had something like 5/6 weeks between ER and Mania this year didn't they? Then they only ended up using 3 of them.


You mean 28? Or 27? 

But nah, not what I'm thinking of. Was around the end of the year-ish time, maybe leading into a HIAC PPV?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think STARBUCK meant Elimination Chamber - Mania XXIX.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> You mean 28? Or 27?
> 
> But nah, not what I'm thinking of. Was around the end of the year-ish time, maybe leading into a HIAC PPV?


Not a clue then lol.

EDIT - :lmao Only just realized my mistake there. Whoops.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I wish they'd let Brock/Game go. They already did the regular match and the career threatening no holds barred match. It's over. 

Let Brock take out Punk to set up Summerslam. It's obvious and predictable, yes, but it's also a change. 

And yes, strange that there is so much time between WM and Extreme Rules.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

So in that King of The Ring thread in the Raw section there are people saying that the Miz is a better worker than MICK FOLEY.

Just when you think you've seen it all....


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I wish they'd let Brock/Game go. They already did the regular match and the career threatening no holds barred match. It's over.
> 
> Let Brock take out Punk to set up Summerslam. It's obvious and predictable, yes, but it's also a change.
> 
> And yes, strange that there is so much time between WM and Extreme Rules.


That's the only thing that'd make me happily accept Brock/HHH III.

Or actually not. Just get Brock in the ring with Orton, Sheamus, Bryan and even Punk. Fuck all these rematches.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Brock vs Triple h ehhh well at least we get to see Brock wrestle at extreme rules but can't we get something fresh and now we're getting another Sheamus vs Henry feud 

anyways watching the Undertaker dvd here are some snowflakes 
mankind vs Undertaker buried alive ****
undertaker vs mankind revenge of the taker ****1/4 best Undertaker Mandkind match IMO
undertaker vs bret hart summerslam ****1/4
undertaker vs Bret hart One Night Only ****1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CHOKE2DEATH.

Do you happen to have all of your RAW/Smackdown ratings from January 2003 - December 2005 saved, because I have a tiny favor to ask .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm late (been working), but what's the ER main event stip (I can guess what the match is based on clues given clues in this thread)? Can someone pm me/rep me with it? Too lazy to look it up on my phone.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

REPPED.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> CHOKE2DEATH.
> 
> Do you happen to have all of your RAW/Smackdown ratings from January 2003 - December 2005 saved, because I have a tiny favor to ask .


Nah, don't have them saved but I'm good with memorizing, so ask away!

Actually, I have all the 2005-2006 ratings saved.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I need to know all John Cena TV matches you have @ ****+* from 2003 - Late 2005 :lol

I don't wanna subject myself to numerous matches against Rene Dupree (JD was bad enough) and Kenzo Suzuki, so I was wondering if I could get a list of shit to watch from those years (watched every singles TV match 2006 - present because it's either a squash or against a worthy opponent).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alright, I'll look it up.

2005:
w/ HBK & Hogan vs Jericho & Tomko & Christian (Raw 27/6) - ★★★¼
vs Jericho (Raw 22/8) - ★★★¾
w/ HBK, Matt Hardy & Big Show vs Edge, Kurt Angle, Chris Masters & Snitsky (Raw 19/9) - ★★★½
vs HBK (Raw 31/10) - ★★★
vs Angle vs Masters (Raw 28/11) - ★★★
vs Shelton (Raw 25/12) - ★★★¼

There's also a match with Booker T from February that I recall being better than the trash they put on in 2004. And his first match on Raw was also not bad. It's 13/6 in a tag match with Jericho against Christian & Tomko, right before Y2J turns heel.

2004:
vs Undertaker (22/6) - ★★★★

^ Yep, that's really it!

2003: (don't have ratings for this)
vs Chris Benoit (ALL OF THEM!)
vs Undertaker (both of them)
vs Rey Mysterio (6/11)
w/ Lesnar vs Undertaker & Angle (2/10)
vs Eddie Guerrero (11/9, 28/8, 3/4)
w/ Benoit vs Lesnar & Big Show (13/11)

Just stay away from 2004. There MIGHT be a decent match with RVD hanging around somewhere but otherwise, all the shit with Dupree and company BLOWS. It's unbelievable how awful the midcard was that year. How could Benoit & Lesnar's departure have such a negative effect on the show? Scratch that, it's obvious when both are two of the greatest talents in WWE history.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I miss Dupree.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THANK YOU.

I'm so happy that I've watched everything worth watching from Cena in terms of singles matches bar 8 more PPV matches, then I'm moving onto TAGS .

Thoughts on RAW EC 11 (Watching now, MORRISON GOING HAM)?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I miss Dupree.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> THANK YOU.
> 
> I'm so happy that I've watched everything worth watching from Cena in terms of singles matches bar 8 more PPV matches, then I'm moving onto TAGS .
> 
> Thoughts on RAW EC 11 (Watching now, MORRISON GOING HAM)?


hated it gave it a ** just because of Punks mocking orton:lol


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HHH-Brock III in a cage :HHH2


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

UNDERTAKER WORKING RAW NEXT WEEK

:mark:

Match probably won't start and will be saved for ER, I assume.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So we are getting HHH/Brock III. Steel cage. I for one am looking forward to it.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Really enjoyed that Ryback promo, as for Brock/HHH III Heyman's promo made me a bit excited for it I guess I gotta make some good out of this feud lasting even longer.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> So we are getting HHH/Brock III. Steel cage. I for one am looking forward to it.


I think it has a ton of great potential too.

Don't think it can top the Summerslam match (that's a REALLY hard feat anyways), but it seems as if us BROCK/GAME fans might get what we want in the end ; No GAME retirement but a BROCK win in the end.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Ya know, the more of him that I see, I really think that people sleep on Rick Steiner. He's really good. I am going to marathon some Steiners stuff sometime later this week. I think people always just associate him with tag work & then his pretty bad run in late WCW but he could go at one time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Steiners in general would probably be my pick for best American Tag Team ever.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I think it has a ton of great potential too.
> 
> Don't think it can top the Summerslam match (that's a REALLY hard feat anyways), but it seems as if us BROCK/GAME fans might get what we want in the end ; No GAME retirement but a BROCK win in the end.


Yeah, Brock is going over for sure. Although I'm a fan of both their Summerslam and Mania matches I hope they work a faster pace this time around.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell are Brock & Hunter gonna do in a cage? Is Lesnar gonna try a SSP off the top?  Really though, idk how great this encounter is gonna be. Hell in a Cell would've suited them much better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Game tends to work his Steel Cage matches OLD SCHOOL style so expect a slower paced, polarizing match yet again that I'll probably love unless it has a stupid anti climatic finish like the Mania match of course.

SHEAMUS-HENRY :mark:.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

suplex off the cage please :mark:

Extreme Rules looking like:

HHH/Brock
Cena/Ryback
Ziggler/Swagger/Del Rio
Orton/Show
Sheamus/Henry
Shield/Hell No

Not a bad card. Sheamus/Henry could be the show stealer.

EDIT: thought the finish to HHH/Brock at Mania was great


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sheamus/Henry? Fucking nice. I have a reason to watch WWE in the next month.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The finish to BROCK-HHH is like the exact same finish to HHH-Orton @ XXV.

HHH is on offense for literally the ENTIRE LAST FIVE MINUTES OF THE MATCH.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> suplex off the cage please :mark:
> 
> Extreme Rules looking like:
> 
> ...


Yeah, not too bad. 

Assuming that will be the card, I'll list the matches in the order of most looking forward to to least looking forward to.

1) Cena/Ryback
2) Dolph/Swagger/Del Rio
3) The Shield/Hell no
4) Brock/HHH
5) Sheamus/Henry
6) Orton/Show

After Ryback's promo tonight I'm honestly looking forward to his match with Cena the most, then Ziggler's match which will probably be the best match on the card, hoping for a fun triple threat between the three. The Shield potentially winning the tag titles would interest me, the rest of the matches I don't really care about. Brock/HHH again ugh, it doesn't need another match, the feud should of ended at Mania. Sheamus/Henry I give no fucks for, it's just a rehash from their feud in 2011 and it's pure filler, same with Orton/Show.

And I liked the finish to HHH/Brock at Mania too, but I didn't like the excessive use of the kimura lock during the late part of the match and the dead crowd bothered me a bit. Overall I still enjoyed the match quite a bit, more than most I think.

Edit: Booker confirmed the World Title match will be a triple threat at Extreme Rules.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Looks like Punk has officially taken his break.

Which calls for my break as well. No chance I'm sticking around for Ryback/Cena.

unk3


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> The finish to BROCK-HHH is like the exact same finish to HHH-Orton @ XXV.
> 
> HHH is on offense for literally the ENTIRE LAST FIVE MINUTES OF THE MATCH.


No problem with that whatsoever. HHH/Orton was different because that was more like HHH trying to get revenge by killing Orton. HHH/Brock struck me as 'yeah, it takes that much punishment to beat Lesnar.'


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

With the steel steps being Brock's only weakness.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Yeah, not too bad.
> 
> Assuming that will be the card, I'll list the matches in the order of most looking forward to to least looking forward to.
> 
> ...


I'll play this game:

1. HHH/Brock
2. Sheamus/Henry
3. Shield/Hell No
4. Cena/Ryback
5. Ziggler/Swagger/Del Rio
6. Orton/Show

HHH/Brock tops the list for me simply because I'm a huge fan of both guys. Sheamus/Henry, although it's been done before, has the potential to be a really good match. Arguably the best babyface worker (Daniel Bryan excluded) and the best heel worker going at it. There's a good chance Taker will be in the Shield match. If so I'd bump that up to number 2. Don't really care about the other matches. Cena/Ryback has _some_ potential. Triple threat _could_ be good too but a lot of WWE three ways suck balls. And I don't like Swagger. Orton/Show is completely bleh because Orton's in it. A good gimmick could make it worthwhile.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Assuming that is the ER card, Shield is only thing I'm looking forward to. Brock/Trips is meh. 

Someone mentioned in the Raw thread that Punk should return in Chicago, and I agree with that. Imagine that pop for a returning Punk in his hometown. 

Tonight's crowd was just pathetic. Can't wait for London - only for the crowd, and Taker/Hell No vs Shield.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk taking time off blew the wrestler of the year race wide open. For me he's been the clear standout performer of 2013.

Wonder if they'll actually do that 6 man next week.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^^^ I love punk but Im pretty sure Jericho been wrestler of the year


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Ryback's taped promo resembled an Ultimate Warrior promo and not in a good way. I laughed through most of it.

I also don't care about Brock/Triple H at all.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I'll play this game:
> 
> 1. HHH/Brock
> 2. Sheamus/Henry
> ...


I actually make take that back about looking forward to Cena/Ryback the most now, with the how they booked that ending segement with Ryback walking way from a confrontation with Cena. It's like.. really? I know it's typical heel booking these days, but you would think a beast like Ryback's character wouldn't suddenly walk away after his whole character was about destroying people. fpalm 

Cena/Ryback has my interest for the feud potential, obviously the match won't be that good.

I don't think Undertaker will work Extreme Rules. He's working that match on RAW next week, but I think that match will end in a DQ or something and the feud will be Hell No vs The Shield heading into Extreme Rules over the tag titles. 

I didn't care for the Swagger/Del Rio feud at all, and I don't really like either guy, but obviously with Ziggler being the World Champion now my interest in the World Title scene has gone up and I'll be invested in that match hoping for a Ziggler win. :mark: Just the fact it's a triple threat gives Ziggler more of a chance to win, which is good, and have him sneak out with the title and maybe Del Rio and Swagger finish up their feud while Ziggler goes onto feud with someone else at the next PPV.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ziggler NEEDS to retain. Pretty sure he will.



redskins25 said:


> ^^^^^^ I love punk but Im pretty sure Jericho been wrestler of the year


He's been good but none of his work this year touches Punk/Taker or Punk/Cena.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Punk taking time off blew the wrestler of the year race wide open. For me he's been the clear standout performer of 2013.
> 
> Wonder if they'll actually do that 6 man next week.


Depending on how long Punk is gone, he may still have a shot at it. 

If you're talking about the Slammy's, Cena's got that in the bag already.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> They had two matches w/ the last one ending in a draw, didn't they? Or were there more?


Thanks. I saw both but wanted to make sure that nothing else happened in the feud and that I didn't miss anything else.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Ziggler NEEDS to retain. Pretty sure he will.


He does. And he needs to hold the title at least a few months. For as much as I didn't like Bryan's reign as World Champion, he was able to his credit to develop an establish a character and get over, and get recognized, and Ziggler needs that time to shine and he needs at least a few months as champion to show everyone what he's truly capable of. It's good that Ziggler's getting promo time every week now to improve in the area that he's not the best at, and as Champion now I'm interested to see how he's going to retain in matches, but he needs stronger booking though, I mean, he beat Jericho only by a distraction on Smackdown in his first match as World Champion, but then loses clean to Swagger on RAW fpalm. The only good thing about that match was Ziggler playing the face in it, did anyone notice that? I thought it was pretty cool, could be a sign of things to come a few months down the line, maybe.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Face turn & feud with Mark Henry PLZ.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm sick to death of the WWE's method of thinking that to be the number one contender for a title, you have to beat the actual champion. Lazy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brock/HHH III... and it's a Steel Cage? I just... I don't know anymore. They made it clear they're not going to take the brutality level up to what the feud has been built on. Frankly, I see this as a weak way to put Brock over HHH and have him literally just "escape" with the win. I have no faith in WWE to have Brock decimate Triple H like he should. Like he should've at Mania. Lesnar's gonna win the match, but it's not going to be decisively, believe that. As such, I have no interest in the rematch to the rematch that no one wanted to see.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not so sure about Punk leaving just yet. Something about that promo gave me the feeling that he's going to have a rematch with Taker at ER.

Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part though. :sadpanda Either way, I think he'll return shortly before or at Payback. He won't miss the Chicago PPV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I'm not watching RAW live for the next while, I'm just going to download I think.

John Cena & a few part timers can't carry a THREE HOUR SHOW (the company's BIGGEST problem in the quality department).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Raw next week I'm watching solely because Taker's competing. I'll sit through the 3 hours to make sure I don't miss that live. But after that, it may be time to take a break from WWE for the first time ever for me. We'll see what next week holds...


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Dopesick said:


> I'm sick to death of the WWE's method of thinking that to be the number one contender for a title, you have to beat the actual champion. Lazy.


Also doesn't make much sense.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

- Wasn't looking forward to the first HHH/ Lesnar match and didn't enjoy it & wasn't looking forward to the second match but enjoyed it.
Actually laugh at the report of the third match in a steel cage but during Heyman's promo didn't think they'd go with it.

Not looking forward to a 3rd match, never cared for steel cage matches and don't see how they can top themselves in a restrict environment. 

- Also only watching (recording) RAW to see Takers match but i have a feeling it won't happen.
Only watched RAW tonight to see Punk till i saw Lesnar while fast forwarding through the show.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

*Cm Punk vs. John Cena - MITB 2011 - WWE Title Match* 

****1/2

Being new to rating matches, I decided rate one of my favorite matches of I'd say at least the last five years. In rewatching it, I noticed the sloppiness more often and just some parts of the match not jelling the way these two did in their matches after this. It's still a great match but one of the few matches that I feel you must have seen live to still give this five stars. Since I don't watch wrestling with the sound off, that accounts for a portion of the rating.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Despite not liking who won the Cesaro/Kofi match was good tonight. It is amazing how Cesaro keeps doing new things with his strength and technique. I would love to see him get a PPV match with Bryan, Ziggler, Rhodes, Punk or Jericho just to name a few.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Out of the 5 main matches I believe we are seeing at extreme rules, my ranking in terms of most looking forward would look something like this:

1. The Shield vs Team Hell No
2. John Cena vs Ryback 
3. Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger 
4. Brock vs Triple H Cage match
5. Sheamus vs Mark Henry 

I can't think of a time when the tag titles match was the match I was looking forward to most on PPV, that's assuming this match will be for the titles and if its not and they seemingly add Taker as well that's ever better. The Shield are just straight up awesome at the moment and the best thing going in the company. For some reason I'm amused with a Cena/Ryback feud even though it will probably be the worst match out of the 5. Ziggler/Del Rio/Swagger are all good workers who can provide a good match, and I'm interested with how Ziggler comes out of this match. I was never fully invested in a Brock/HHH feud if I'm honest, they can provide decent matches and I love seeing Brock but lets move onto something else. Don't get me wrong I like the Sheamus/Henry matchup, it's just we saw it 2 years ago and I'm just more hyped for fresher feuds. A true sleeper though for MOTN. Should be a good PPV like it always is.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Deadman's competing next week, :mark: :mark: :mark:.

On another related note. I just finished watching and then rating Taker's PPV matches in 1997, They are as follow.

vs. Vader, Royal Rumble *(***1/2)*
vs. Bret vs. Vader vs. Austin, Final Four *(****3/4)*
vs. Sid, WM13 *(***)*
vs. Mankind, The Revenge Of The Taker *(****1/4)*
vs. Austin, A Cold Day In Hell *(****1/4)*
vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring *(**)* 
vs. Vader, Canadian Stampede *(***3/4) *
vs. Bret, Summerslam *(****)*
vs. HBK, Ground Zero *(***3/4)*
vs. Bret, One Night Only *(****1/2)*
vs. HBK, Badd Blood *(*****) (GOAT MATCH)*

I think it's safe to say, Taker was the WOTY for 1997.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol WWE isn't having the six man match happen next week. No way.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah its definitely going to be Shield taking out Undertaker to add fire to the Shield/Hell No feud. 

When was the last time any of the big 4 part timers competed on Raw ( Undertaker,Lesnar, Rock , HHH)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock was like '02, right? Maybe he had a random match in '04 leading up to the Goldberg match, but I doubt it.

Trips was 2010.

Undertaker was 2010.

Rock was '03 vs Jeff Hardy.

-----------

btw, highlight of RAW tonight was the RAW is GENERICO sign. Hands down.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

1. The Shield vs Team Hell No/Undertaker I hope the Undertaker gets added in but I doubt that would happen 
2. Brock vs Triple H Cage match-This is number 2 just because I wanna see Brock wrestle but I don't really know how it makes sense to put this match in a cage I mean is one of them gonna try to act like a bitch and try to escape 
3.Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger 
4.Sheamus vs Mark Henry-Could be a really good match Sheamus being one of the best workers and Henry is just the best heel in the company
5.John Cena vs Ryback
6.Orton vs Show


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Am i the only one REALLY looking forward to Sheamus/Henry?

Big ma-hoosive brawls sound good to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Trips wins the retirement match.......then comes back a month later to face the same opponont. 

Still in disbelief tbh, it was a running joke that Brock's next match would be against HHH, but I honestly thought it wouldn't happen.

Oh well, we get to see Brock again at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Am i the only one REALLY looking forward to Sheamus/Henry?
> 
> Big ma-hoosive brawls sound good to me.


Aye.

It should be stellar.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Am i the only one REALLY looking forward to Sheamus/Henry?
> 
> Big ma-hoosive brawls sound good to me.


Indeed, Sheamus is a rare breed. A big man worker who can work with both the smaller guys and the monsters. It'll beat the shit out of Ryback/Henry that's for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HENRY VS SHEAMUS :mark:

That and SHIELD are gonna be the only things I'm interested in for ER based on what it looks like we're getting.

So Undertaker is on Raw next week and might wrestling. Ok. Whatever. I don't care that much.

*explodes*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Be jaded like me, Cal. Don't expect him to work. Don't let your hopes be dashed in the most crushing way possible. An appearance though. Yeah, that's well worthy of excitement. He's sticking around for a bit longer post WM - *Best news ever*. We holy sweet science need him if Punker is taking time off.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk's promo on Raw 

I know he needs a break but fuck, he's mostly the reason i watch Raw every week.

Taker won't wrestle on Raw, attacked by Shield next week. Then 6 man tag at EXTREME RULES. please.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Be jaded like me, Cal. Don't expect him to work. Don't let your hopes be dashed in the most crushing way possible. An appearance though. Yeah, that's well worthy of excitement. He's sticking around for a bit longer post WM - *Best news ever*. We holy sweet science need him if Punker is taking time off.


What makes you so sure he won't work at least one match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're shocked as can be he's even showing up on RAW post-WM. Giving away a huge PPV match like that on TV when it could be saved for a PPV, not far off, considering the rarity of Undertaker matches these days? Yeah, the evidence is clearly leaning towards the side of those who believe the match is merely a ruse to line up the inevitable PPV collision between the six.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> We're shocked as can be he's even showing up on RAW post-WM. Giving away a huge PPV match like that on TV when it could be saved for a PPV, not far off, considering the rarity of Undertaker matches these days? Yeah, the evidence is clearly leaning towards the side of those who believe the match is merely a ruse to line up the inevitable PPV collision between the six.


Well, It's a very assumable opinion, but i think they'll offer the RAW match as an appetizer for the extreme rules one, a glimpse of what to expect, you know what i mean. As for them saving the match for ER, i already mentioned the RAW match could be used as an appetizer, a short but sweet 7 - 10 minute match. Also, WWE are gonna need a big name to fill the shoes of both Rock and Punk, So Taker competing in a RAW match for the first time in 3 years is bound to get a solid amount of fans glued to the television screens. However each to his own, we'll saw what happens next week. .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Here's to hoping I'm incorrect. Haven't been yet over the last few weeks and now the tag team division is regulated to the same match every show and a jobber buffoon is off having another Championship for the 10th meaningless time. Being correct often is quite terrible sometimes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just announcing the match is gonna get people watching Raw next week, no need to actually have Taker wrestle if they've already got the viewers from it. God I hope the match does happen at ER. When they showed up on SD (Shield) and attacked HHH I thought that the thing with Undertaker was nothing more than them trying to make a statement, same thing with HHH, so an actual match wasn't planned it was just something for them to do. But now with Rock "injured" and buggering off they seem to need a big name for the PPV, and well neither HHH or Lesnar are THAT big.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Besides, you can have Lesnar kill Trips in the cage separate from what Shield do vs Undertaker at ER. Have 'em all there. Stack the card. Nothing wrong with that. Upper card is looking set as it is with WWE, World, Cage, & six man all lined up. Make some whatever undercard and its all done.

FUCK forgot about Sheamus vs Henry too. omgomgomg :mark:


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

ER has the potential to be awesome

Brock destroying HHH in a cage
Shield beating down Taker in the 6 man
Cena/Ryback
Ziggler/Del Rio/Swagger
Henry/Sheamus

Throw in maybe Kofi/Cesaro and another couple of undercard matches and we've got an epic show


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Have to concur that Extreme Rules is lining up to be a top show. It's been very consistent over the last few years so let's hope it continues.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Extreme Rules will easily top Wrestlemania this year imo.

I know its not right to call stuff this early but the event is going to rock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, still not giving a shit about anything other than Shield match and Henry/Sheamus. Hope the cage match surprises me. Its about as close as we'll get to Brock/HHH in the OCTAGON so it could end up good, I'm just going in with mega low expectations . WWE Title match on paper looks dreadful. Triple Threat looks dull as shit since Del Rio makes me sleepy and Swagger is just in the shadow of DIRTY UNCLE ZEB MANTEL.

Nothing on the undercard is likely to interest me. Kofi against anyone? Fuck off. Barrett against anyone (likely R-Truth)? Fuck off. Divas shite? Fuck off.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Well to be fair for the ;past two years ER has topped Wrestlemania match wise.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

But it won't top last years for sure, probably 2011 but that too, was an extraordinary event. Damn, ER has to be one of the most consistent PPVs when it comes to match delivery.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

True.

We shall see what comes of this one though.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

So i'm guessing for ER;

Cena/Ryback - WWE Title
Ziggles/Swagger/Del Rio - WHC
Trips/Lesnar - Cage
Henry/Sheamus :mark:
Taker & Hell No/SHIELD - :mark:
Orton/Show? 

Not too bad, crazy to have a Cage match to end a feud, i mean i know they used to have them end feuds on Raw and shit but to go from a NHB match to a Cage match on PPv seems a tad strange. Then again this is the company that gave us Del Rio & Show a LMS match to start the feud and a Singles match to end it :lol


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Big Z said:


> Yeah, still not giving a shit about anything other than Shield match and Henry/Sheamus. Hope the cage match surprises me. Its about as close as we'll get to Brock/HHH in the OCTAGON so it could end up good, I'm just going in with mega low expectations . WWE Title match on paper looks dreadful. Triple Threat looks dull as shit since Del Rio makes me sleepy and Swagger is just in the shadow of DIRTY UNCLE ZEB MANTEL.
> 
> Nothing on the undercard is likely to interest me. Kofi against anyone? Fuck off. Barrett against anyone (likely R-Truth)? Fuck off. Divas shite? Fuck off.


Im in the same boat.

Taker/Shield :mark: and Sheamus/Henry had an awesome match last year at Summerslam.
Looking at the HWT scene makes me wish it was 2005 so they'd be exclusively on SD.
Honestly what are Lesnar and HHH gonna do in a cage ?
The Undercard is dead to me.

Extreme Rules last year was a 3 match ppv and i don't see those matches being topped this year.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Dark days are on the horizon after Extreme Rules. :cena4 

Just realised if Punk is gone as well as Brock that means no Heyman? Fuck.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Taker/Hell No vs. The Shield is almost enough to convince me to get tickets for Raw next week. If only I didn't have a lingering feeling that it won't actually happen. I would hate to travel all the way across the country, to sit through 3+ hours of dreck & a(n undoubtedly awesome) Shield beatdown on Taker.

I really want to see that match live. Damn WWE for being so unreliable.



BANKSY said:


> Dark days are on the horizon after Extreme Rules. :cena4
> 
> Just realised if Punk is gone as well as Brock that means no Heyman? Fuck.


I didn't even think about Heyman leaving. I was too preoccupied wondering how awful WWE would be without Punk. The probability of no weekly Heyman sightings (after Brock leaves) is an even bigger kick in the balls.

unk3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder when Brock will be back after ER, hopefully for Summerslam.

Yeah, I give that much of a shit about this feud that im awaiting his next feud already lol.

It was great to see him fuck 3MB up like a they were a sack of potatoes :lol


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Wonder when Brock will be back after ER, hopefully for Summerslam.


Probably.

That will be night of.....

Wait for it...


Wait for it...









*Brock/Trips IV*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, they are going to go longer than the fucking Rocky films 

So Taker may be in a match on Raw next week :mark: , wonder why not wait 'till the PPV.

I honestly didn't think we would see him again for a while, no way im.fucking complaining though!!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Just watched Kane/Test from NM' 2001. They have real solid chemistry, probably somewhere from ***1/4 to ***3/4, i would rate it and even the crowd was into it. What's everyone's thoughts on the match?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So the SHEETZ finally got something right. BORK/GAME IN DA CAGE. I know why Brock chose this stipulation though. If they're inside a cage then the steps can't be part of the match and we all know that Brock's weakness lies in those damn steel steps. By having a cage match the steps are ELIMINATED. :brock 

:lmao I can't believe they are actually having another match though. Part of me is actually starting to believe this dramatic Rock story you know. If he was originally slated to work ER and decided not to then they obviously needed something to take its place. Enter :brock, :HHH and hopefully :taker to fill the gap. 

Speaking of Taker, super pumped for the match next week and if it doesn't happen then it will probably happen at the PPV so I'm fine with that. ER is shaping up to be quite the show. I initially wasn't going to buy it but now I definitely am and predominantly for a match that I'm not even sure I want to see. Figure that one out lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Only way I'm ordering Extreme Rules is if Taker makes the card. World Title, Henry/Sheamus, and whatever the Shield does should be fine, though. Can Cena do with Ryback what he did with Lashley at GAB 07? Orton/Show may surprise us as well. I believe they had a solid match on Main Event last fall.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Extreme Rules so far:
* HHH/Bork III Cage
* Zigg/Swagg/RRRRIIIOOO
- Shield/THN (& POSSIBLY TAKER :mark: )
- Cena/Ryback
- Orton/Show
- Henry/Sheamus
Cool so far. 

Now, as a little curiosity for my Best Of PG Era project, how would you rank the Big 4 Main Events since PG Era started:

*Undertaker vs Edge HIAC SSlam 2008
Chris Jericho vs John Cena SS 2008*
30-Man Royal Rumble 2009
Triple H vs Randy Orton WM 25
Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk SSlam 2009
*John Cena vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels SS 2009
30-Man Royal Rumble 2010
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM 26
Team WWE vs The Nexus SSlam 2010*
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett SS 2010
40-Man Royal Rumble 2011
Miz vs John Cena WM 27
*CM Punk vs John Cena SSlam 2011
*Rockena vs Awesome Truth SS 2011
30-Man Royal Rumble 2012
Rock vs John Cena WM 28
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar SSlam 2012
CM Punk vs John Cena vs Ryback SS 2012
CM Punk vs Rock RR 2013
Rock vs John Cena WM 29

My favourites are in bold.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Undertaker vs Edge HIAC SSlam 2008 - *****1/2*
Chris Jericho vs John Cena SS 2008 - ****3/4*
30-Man Royal Rumble 2009 - Enjoyed it.
Triple H vs Randy Orton WM 25 - ***
Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk SSlam 2009 - ****3/4*
John Cena vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels SS 2009 ****1/2*
30-Man Royal Rumble 2010 - Too short, but great return win.
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM 26 - ****** and the GOAT, wrestling doesn't get better than this.*
Team WWE vs The Nexus SSlam 2010 - ****1/2*
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett SS 2010 - **3/4*
40-Man Royal Rumble 2011 - Meh, okay rumble.
Miz vs John Cena WM 27 - *DUD*
CM Punk vs John Cena SSlam 2011 - ****3/4*
Rockena vs Awesome Truth SS 2011 - Never seen it, probably never will.
30-Man Royal Rumble 2012 - Fella/Jericho ending was a nice touch.
Rock vs John Cena WM 28 - ***1/2*
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar SSlam 2012 - ******
CM Punk vs John Cena vs Ryback SS 2012 - ****
CM Punk vs Rock RR 2013 - *DUD of all DUD's*
Rock vs John Cena WM 29 Haven't watched this yet, again really not looking forward to it if i ever do.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I can see why they would want to save Taker for Extreme Rules to get more buys and such, but I don't see the point of it from a feud perspective. Taker shouldn't even be in the feud really, all The Shield did was interrupt him one time, whereas the history between The Shield and Team Hell No goes back months. And the feud should ultimately culminate in a match over the Tag Titles with The Shield winning them, but I can't see that happening if they throw Undertaker in the mix. The only thing throwing Undertaker into the match does is ensure that The Shield could very well lose their first match in the company to a part timer that's never around, and that's unnecessary.

I think they should have the match on RAW, but before it really even starts there's a DQ finish, to setup Team Hell No vs The Shield for the Tag Titles at Extreme Rules.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

ATF said:


> Now, as a little curiosity for my Best Of PG Era project, how would you rank the Big 4 Main Events since PG Era started:
> 
> Undertaker vs Edge HIAC SSlam 2008 *(****1/2)*
> Chris Jericho vs John Cena SS 2008[/B] *(****1/4)*
> ...


My star ratings are bolded.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm enjoying the fuck out of the Ryback/Cena feud so far. I was really surprised by that pre taped Ryback promo but Cena killed him later in the ring.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm intrigued by the Ryback/Cena angle, interesting to see where it goes. I have a weird feeling they might actually have a good match. As for Ryback's promo, it was good. But it's a hell of a lot easier to do a pre-taped one with multiple takes. Only when he can do something like that with a live mic will I be impressed.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> So the SHEETZ finally got something right. BORK/GAME IN DA CAGE. I know why Brock chose this stipulation though. If they're inside a cage then the steps can't be part of the match and we all know that Brock's weakness lies in those damn steel steps. By having a cage match the steps are ELIMINATED. :brock


Bitch, please. Steel steps are still gonna sabotage :brock when he slips on them when walking out and breaks both of his legs. Dem steps show no mercy. Like da hood to :taker on Raw 1,000 or the announce table to rton in 2011.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Raw Money In The Bank Ladder Match, 2011
The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger vs. Alex Riley vs. R-Truth vs. Evan Bourne vs. Kofi Kingston*

_This thing is flat out chaos. One of my favourite MITB matches for sure. That SSP by Bourne off the ladder is GOAT. I seriously must have rewound and watched it about 10 times. Really cool moment with Miz running back down and everybody thought he was going to win it. The ending is awesome too with Del Rio de-masking Mysterio to win. So many ladders just broke or bent which led to some seriously nasty spots with ADR, Rey, Swagger and Kofi all eating the mat. Tons of flying over the rope and bodies flying all over the place in general actually. Awesome stuff. I forgot how much I enjoyed this._

*****1/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Have it


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Gamblor said:


> Bitch, please. Steel steps are still gonna sabotage :brock when he slips on them when walking out and breaks both of his legs. Dem steps show no mercy. Like da hood to :taker on Raw 1,000 or the announce table to rton in 2011.


Wrestlemania XXX

Brock, Taker, Orton vs. Steps, Hood, Table

BOOK IT


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk needs his redemption storyline against the announce table.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Wrestlemania XXX
> 
> Brock, Taker, Orton vs. Steps, Hood, Table
> 
> BOOK IT


Add Rock vs. Cena "We're Doing It Every Year" (since Rocky seems to get injured whenever he faces Cena).

Brock/Trips I - *** 1/2
Brock/Trips II - ***


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock walked out. We'll never see him again.

:rock4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alas, I wish you were right Starbuck, but unfortunately we're going to have to watch BROCK job to him @ Mania XX in one of the worst matches of his entire career .

Undertaker vs Edge HIAC SSlam 2008 : ***** 1/4*
Chris Jericho vs John Cena SS 2008 : ***** 1/4*
30-Man Royal Rumble 2009 : **** 3/4*
Triple H vs Randy Orton WM 25 : ***
Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk SSlam 2009 : ******
John Cena vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels SS 2009 : ***** 1/4*
30-Man Royal Rumble 2010 : *** 1/2*
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels WM 26 : *******
Team WWE vs The Nexus SSlam 2010 : ******
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett SS 2010 : *1/4 **
40-Man Royal Rumble 2011 : **** 3/4*
Miz vs John Cena WM 27 : *1/4 **
CM Punk vs John Cena SSlam 2011 : ***** 1/2*
Rockena vs Awesome Truth SS 2011 : ** 1/2*
30-Man Royal Rumble 2012 : ****
Rock vs John Cena WM 28 : *** 1/4*
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar SSlam 2012 : ***** 1/2*
CM Punk vs John Cena vs Ryback SS 2012 : *****
CM Punk vs Rock RR 2013 : *1/4 **
Rock vs John Cena WM 29 : *3/4 **


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock looked genuinely pleased when the crowd were shouting "One more time" when he F-5'd Slater, he obviously loved doing it lol but he seemed excited with the crowd, which was nice.

Mind you, he did say he loved the live crowds and was a reason he came back.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

You can tell performing is something Brock really enjoys. Everything else about wrestling not so much lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love BROCK LESNAR and everything about him man...

Vince essentially tried to ruin the guy, only for BROCK to make himself a hot commodity and above 99 percent of the current guys in name value, eventually getting the deal that he wanted from the company. If BROCK is working two shows in a row, it makes me believe that we're going to get 5-6 Lesnar matches all year. YAY.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I wouldn't get that excited. I reckon this ER match is taking away one of his appearances because I don't think it was ever meant to happen. But hey, more BORK is fine with me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The idea of a Brock-HHH cage match is AWESOME and I actually think it was planned to be honest. BROCK probably wouldn't have came if it wasn't in the first place.

What's everybody's guess as to who's PAYBACK they're referring to @ the PPV? They're definitely doing Ryback/Cena II.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

KingOfKings said:


> I love BROCK LESNAR and everything about him man...
> 
> Vince essentially tried to ruin the guy, only for BROCK to make himself a hot commodity and above 99 percent of the current guys in name value, eventually getting the deal that he wanted from the company. If BROCK is working two shows in a row, it makes me believe that we're going to get 5-6 Lesnar matches all year. YAY.


I'm hoping he works the Payback PPV in Chicago too, then maybe SummerSlam.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

When is Payback anyways? When is ER for that matter lol? We got ER, then what and then what?

I reckon he won't work again until Summerslam. Payback most likely going to be JOHN CENAS PAYBACK. Maybe they actually let Ryback win the title. Wow. Or maybe it's going to be PAYBACK FOR RYBACK. RAYBACK. 8*D.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Payback is June 16 and I already have my tickets. Hoping for another great show in Chi-town :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody else feel that Punk's going face for a feud with Lesnar? He did walk out and leave Heyman in the ring.

I think that'll be Brock's gap between feuds ; HHH - Punk - Rock or something like that TBH but I'm just being a fantasy booker when I book Punk-BROCK as I think it should be saved for a Mania main event for sure.

The only problem with Punk being face (besides him being the ultimate heel) would be the clear lack of heels in the company now, RYBACK as the company's top heel is pretty fucking laughable.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Awesome stuff Clique. Enjoy!!

With Punk taking time off, I wonder if he'll end up being there?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So Payback is the June PPV, ER is the...May PPV then? What's after that in July before Summerslam? 

I know they aren't the same but I've got a Raw House Show this Thursday which I'm rather looking forward to. Probably going to be Cena/Ryback now but I'm busting to see The Shield live for the first time. Should be great and they better not be on the fucking SD tour. 

Yeah, if Punk/Lesnar happens then Punk's gotta turn. Since he's most likely going to get a big face pop when he comes back from this break, they may as well just go ahead and let him turn. It's got to be either Punk/Lesnar or Cena/Lesnar for the title at Summerslam since he's obviously going to Rock or Taker at Mania.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> So Payback is the June PPV, ER is the...May PPV then? What's after that in July before Summerslam?


Money In The Bank


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk & Lesnar has me more excited for any match in a long time.

Heyman can turn on Punk causing him to become face because let's face it, no matter how good Punk/Heyman is, Lesnar NEEDS Heyman by his side. Punk can play the babyface in peril which we know he can play to an absolute tee (HENRY in 2012) and Lesnar can play what he is, an absolute monster. Oh the psychology in this match would be off the charts. Heyman screaming at Punk that he was never good enough to be the best in the world from the sidelines just has me :mark:

Punk/Lesnar has the potential to be near GOAT. Obviously a little bias.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We've got another FOUR Raws until Extreme Rules, loving these long build ups for sure. If you look at the PPV schedule, it looks just like this ;

May 19, 2013	Extreme Rules	Scottrade Center	St. Louis, Missouri	
June 16, 2013	WWE Payback	Allstate Arena	Rosemont, Illinois	
July 14, 2013	Money in the Bank	Wells Fargo Center	Philadelphia, Pennsylvania	
August 18, 2013	SummerSlam	Staples Center	Los Angeles, California	
September 15, 2013	Night of Champions	Joe Louis Arena	Detroit, Michigan
October 6, 2013	Over the Limit	First Niagara Center	Buffalo, New York	
October 27, 2013	Hell in a Cell	American Airlines Arena	Miami, Florida	
November 24, 2013	Survivor Series	TD Garden	Boston, Massachusetts	
December 15, 2013	TLC	Toyota Center	Houston, Texas	
April 6, 2014	WrestleMania XXX	Mercedes-Benz Superdome	New Orleans, Louisiana	

There's something really sketchy about them doing back to back PPVs in Rock and Cena's 'hometowns' (yes, I know Cena isn't from Boston).

Also, is it safe to say that Survivor Series shouldn't be considered a big four event anymore? In terms of importance I'd probably say PPVs go something like this now ;

- Wrestlemania
- Summerslam
- Royal Rumble
- Extreme Rules
- Night of Champions

They're going to have a HUGE Summerslam main event, and if I were to guess (objectively of course) I would say that we're getting Cena vs Lesnar (now that Rock is supposedly hurt) and that Cena's title reign is probably going to look like this ;

ER - Ryback
PB - Ryback
MITB - Filler Feud
SS - BROCK. LESNAR.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Meh. I'm not high on Punk so it doesn't initially make me :mark: like when Brock/Cena or Brock/HHH were first announced but they obviously have a lot to play off considering the whole Heyman thing. I look forward to it because of :brock no matter what. 

Thanks, Clique. I haven't got a clue what the hell the PPV schedule is like anymore since they change it all the time. So ER, then Payback, then MITB then Summerslam. Cena main events all the way then lol.

EDIT - And KOK goes and posts the whole thing. Why they still gotta have 2 stupid PPV's in October? Nobody cares about OTL and they're just ruining HIAC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still :lol at how they put Punk-Ryback inside the cell. IT WAS A COMPLETE FILLER FEUD THAT HAD LASTED 4 WEEKS. Literally the first match they had was inside the cell, what the fuck.

BROCK was made for the cell. BROCK-Cena HIAC PLZ.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brock will clearly destroy Trips in the cage and kayfabe break his arm or ribs or something, so the ultimate PAYBACK will be for Triple H at that ppv. Brock/Trips IV in a... Last Man Standing Match. Which Triple H will win by 6 pedigrees on the steel steps after Lesnar gets up at 9 on the first 5.

Soooo, they'll be tied at 2-2 and the final blowoff will be at Summerslam in an I Quit match, where Lesnar quits and he's never heard from until he's a surprise entrant and wins the Rumble next year. The end.

 hahaha


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd mark for Lesnar winning the Rumble again tbh.

And since this is probably the last we're going to see of HHH until next years RTWM, I'll take it.

:brock vs. :HHH

THE FINAL (WE THINK) ENCOUNTER


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm hoping Brock goes over in the rubber match. Triple H can take some time off and BROCK can rise to the main event. PAYBACK against Cena perhaps?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Imagine if Trips wins? Forum meltdown due to 500000 shovel gifs.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm a huge Trips mark and I'd be pretty furious if he went over @ ER.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Same.

This third match is PERFECT ; HHH gets to keep his career and BROCK gets to come out of the feud as the victor, it's a WIN-WIN.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

yeah, it's all kind of coming together. Brock needed to come out on top, but Trips got a win @ Mania (after losing to Taker in consecutive Manias) and keeps his career. BROCK will "end" it by sending him on another sabbatical.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Shawn Michaels vs. El Matador - Wrestlemania 8

**3/4

Shawn Michaels first singles PPV match. I decided after watching Summerslam 2002's comeback match to do a project on every HBK PPV/big match that wasn't a tag...

Starting here was jolting. I'd never seen the match and wasn't sure what to expect. It's a okay match, good start, middle was a slow build with rest holds, and a frantic ending. Mr. Wrestlemania had not arrived yet though. Tito Santana was a good worker but I just hate the finish to this match. If you watch this match not knowing anything about HBK, I don't think you can envision the legend he would become.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Could you imagine what the potential Wrestlemania card would be if Rock never came back :mark: :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A part of me is worried Trips will indeed win, its just atm nothing will fucking surprise me.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I actually think there's an outside chance the Rock may never come back at least in a wrestling capacity. If he gets injured in every match with Cena can you imagine him with mad man Brock? . He has a responsibility as a leading guy in Hollywood to the people who employ him and I'm sure they don't like him rasslin in the 1st place. And outside of Brock is there really anything for the Rock to do as in big PPV matches other than Taker?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm thinking he does the match with BROCK and calls it a career TBH (well, hoping ... WELL I'm hoping he calls it a career now but I highly doubt that he will). He gave back w/ the whole CENA thing and now he'll go out with a win @ XXX.

On a side note ; Sheamus/Orton vs Mark Henry/Big Show has been announced for Smackdown, meaning that I'm going to watch Smackdown for like the first time in a long time depending on what else is announced. Anybody loving the fact that Mark is finally being used in the correct capacity? Still say he goes over Sheamus and keeps going over guys until he gets a mini feud with Cena or some shit. I like how he got his big Wrestlemania win @ XXIX and continues to still look like a monster, bringing intensity to every second he's on the TV screen. The fact that he shows up only to randomly destroy Sheamus and scream "THAT'S WHAT I DO!" is completely awesome and now that Punk is out of commission for perhaps the next few weeks, here are the FULL TIME guys who I'm HEAVILY invested in ;

- The SHIELD
- Mark Henry

The reason behind only being really behind this is simple ; Cena's stuck in a shitty feud with the unbelievably BAD Ryback, Bryan's stuck as a comedy tag worker when he should be bossing it up as a singles star, and DOLPH is being bogged down with the incredibly shitty/boring/Dull AlBOREto. Show-Orton somewhat intrigues me though if they actually do something with it as I think it has the potential to be Orton's best singles match in a while, but I need to see where they go with it before I choose to invest myself.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

zep81 said:


> A part of me is worried Trips will indeed win, its just atm nothing will fucking surprise me.


Why is it worrying? Shouldn't that make the match more enticing to watch, not knowing who will win?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

He needs to get off the roids if he wants to still wrestle or either that train much harder for the ring specifically. His body needs to take at least one match a year if he's gonna do that.

That said, I don't see the point of The Rock wrestling beyond Wrestlemania XXX. It'll be the biggest show ever and depending on the card, Rock might not even have to be THE main event.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> Why is it worrying? Shouldn't that make the match more enticing to watch, not knowing who will win?


Normally of course yeah, but in this case IMHO, Brock has to win really, and that is what I'll be hoping.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Still think Punk's going to be my WOTY due to the fact that he's only taking at the most 8-10 weeks off.

It's weird because when you factor in what he does on the mic and combine it with what he's been doing in the ring as of late (RAW match w/Cena, WM match W/Taker, TLC W/Ryback, RAW vs Jericho), it's clear that he's on a level of his on when compared to the rest of the roster. There are guys who can maybe work better than him in some capacities, but since he's the undisputed best mic worker in the company and a slam dunk for a top 3-5 worker in the company, he's head and shoulders above everyone else at this point. Cena would be a far and distant second if I do say so myself ; MARK would be up there if he had decent opponents to work with so far.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If they'd let Danielson do his thing then he'd be in the discussion as well. Jericho too if he was around more often and wasn't jobbing every week.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

If we're just going the first 4 months so far, Punk has it on lock.

I'd go:

Punk
Cena
The Shield


Cena will likely win the slammy tho if he stays champion.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Anyone thinking Lesnar is going to come out of the cage match looking like a million bucks is luring themselves into disappointment. Lesnar's gonna win, but he ain't destroying Triple H. Not unless they do what they did with Sheamus a few years ago and have Lesnar attack HHH before the match... which cheapens the win anyway. 

And you know what, even if I'm wrong, even if Lesnar/HHH go in there, 100%, and Lesnar ends up truly beating the shit out of HHH like what he did to Cena last year and dominantly wins the match, it doesn't make any sense anymore. Triple H has taken the fight to Lesnar in both matches, and in 2 out of the 3 brawls they've had, and now we're supposed to believe Lesnar's gonna gain back super strength to absolutely demolish Triple H? So many problems I have with the feud. From the match quality being disappointing for both matches given the caliber of match (and in WM's case it was just downright terrible) and the feud itself has been abysmal. Relying on HBK to keep HHH looking tough, Heyman having to carry the mic work and having a stip at WM that didn't provide any true change to what was going on in the product anyway. And yes, they have 5 weeks or whatever it is to fix this shit and get it back on track. I have no faith in WWE doing that. They won't book Brock correctly against Triple H. They have no chemistry in the ring and they've had to rely on others to carry the feud. First match needed to happen as it was a dream match. The rematch should've never happened and it did. Fine, leave it at that. Let Lesnar fight someone who he'll actually be allowed to destroy. And IF they're not interested in building up Lesnar, use him to BUILD THE FUCKING FULL-TIMERS! At the very least I can look back on the Cena match and say it benefited him to some degree that he could take that beating and still come out on top (even if I didn't like it).Not the part-time Triple H. Lesnar/Sheamus or Lesnar/Ryback in similar matches to what Lesnar/HHH was would've been huge for those guys. It doesn't do anything for Triple H anymore though.

/end rant


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You make some valid points, but clearly they aren't interested in the long-term and are only worried about filling their pockets for the time being. That is to say that Lesnar/Sheamus, Lesnar/Punk, and Lesnar/Ryback can't happen down the line. They have Lesnar for another 2 years. I'm happy about Lesnar/HHH III if only to have Brock emerge from the feud as the decisive winner. I could do without the Cage stip but Heyman did a good job hyping it up as an old school battle that "tears skin from bones" which hopefully implies that they'll fucking let loose a little. Not counting on it but hey.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I wouldn't book Lesnar to lose a single match from now until Wrestlemania 30.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I watched... one match from NOC 2011 last night. Was gonna watch a full event fuck I was tired, so I just stuck to HENRY Vs Orton. Great seeing Henry win the title again. Match was... good... but I wasn't feeling a lot of it. Orton taking the fight to Henry at the start I'm fine with, but knocking him down in like the first minute? Not the way I'd personally put together a match against a monster. Should have build up to Orton taking Henry down, making it a big deal. Only a minor complaint though. Another is Orton's punches. Sweet jebus do they suck hard. Like his clotheslines, they all look so robotic and dull lol. Henry was mostly great, but I felt the first half of the match (Orton taking the fight to Henry, and Henry controlling parts of the match) was a little iffy and it didn't flow well for me. Second half was great. Orton at the end crawling up Henry, looking him right in the face and attempting one last RKO was fucking tremendous. Remembered it being better, but ah well. Wonder what I'll think to the HIAC match, don't remember much about it at all.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Have no fear, Brock will win the cage match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hoping for an F-5 into the cage and perhaps some BLOOD.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Hoping for a good Triple H V Brock Lesnar match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Hoping for a good Triple H V Brock Lesnar match.


While you're at it, hope that you win the lottery too. Probably the same odds :side: .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Hoping for a good Triple H V Brock Lesnar match.


username does not check out.

also you're gonna need a miracle


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Mark Henry is gonna make Sheamus worth something at ER hopefully. He couldn't work his magic with Ryback


----------



## AttitudeEraMark4Life (Feb 20, 2013)

Alright so I was looking to add more wrestling DVD's to my collection. I was looking to get the Rise And Fall Of WCW DVD set and was wondering if anyone could let me know if its any good or not?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I would bet a fair amount of money that from now until Wrestlemania XXXI, BROCK will only wrestle the following guys ; HHH, Cena, Taker, Rock, Punk. I don't think he strays away from those few. I don't think they would do the Ryback match due to the obvious Goldberg comparisons at this point (and the fact that it would be heel vs heel as well), and I don't think that they see Sheamus or Orton anywhere near the "big 6" that take on each other on a seemingly consistent basis.

Literally the ONLY way I see Brock vs Sheamus happening is if they put everything together like this ;

BROCK beats HHH @ Extreme Rules
BROCK beats Cena @ Summerslam/Night of Champions ish for the title
BROCK beats Cena in a rematch @ HIAC or some shit
Sheamus has the MITB briefcase
Sheamus defeats BROCK @ Survivor Series for the belt or something due to ROCK nonsense
CM Punk wins the Royal Rumble
Cena challenges the Streak

WM XXX triple main event ;

The Undertaker vs John Cena
The Rock vs Brock Lesnar
WWE Championship - Sheamus(c) vs CM Punk

Anybody else ACTUALLY see something like this happening?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ziggler/Swagger/ADR for ER guys, already announces. This can easily stole the show


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Del Rio was't involved and if Ziggler was a full blown babyface like he already should be at this point then yes. Yes it would be.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not intrigued by that match at all tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RockFan01 said:


> Alright so I was looking to add more wrestling DVD's to my collection. I was looking to get the Rise And Fall Of WCW DVD set and was wondering if anyone could let me know if its any good or not?


Doc isn't that good, they gloss over a shitload tby, mention the cornerstone Sting once lol, bury alot of stuff as usual, but the matches included are pretty damn stellar, worth it fir those.



KingOfKings said:


> I would bet a fair amount of money that from now until Wrestlemania XXXI, BROCK will only wrestle the following guys ; HHH, Cena, Taker, Rock, Punk. I don't think he strays away from those few. I don't think they would do the Ryback match due to the obvious Goldberg comparisons at this point (and the fact that it would be heel vs heel as well), and I don't think that they see Sheamus or Orton anywhere near the "big 6" that take on each other on a seemingly consistent basis.
> 
> Literally the ONLY way I see Brock vs Sheamus happening is if they put everything together like this ;
> 
> ...


Brock beating Cena just once is a stretch tbh imo knowing WWE.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Yeah, del Rio brings it down a fair notch. Not a fan of multi man matches in general either (excluding tags).

Was hoping if anyone got some Dick Murdoch 'pimpage'. His promos and work in JCP has very me tempted. Hopefully there is an excellent body of work somewhere in Mid-South? Anywhere, even.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Not intrigued by that match at all tbh.


Same. Doubt it will be very good either.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> You make some valid points, but clearly they aren't interested in the long-term and are only worried about filling their pockets for the time being. That is to say that Lesnar/Sheamus, Lesnar/Punk, and Lesnar/Ryback can't happen down the line. They have Lesnar for another 2 years. I'm happy about Lesnar/HHH III if only to have Brock emerge from the feud as the decisive winner. I could do without the Cage stip but Heyman did a good job hyping it up as an old school battle that "tears skin from bones" which hopefully implies that they'll fucking let loose a little. Not counting on it but hey.


If they do Lesnar vs Sheamus fuhhhhhh that would be too good :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Same. Doubt it will be very good either.


Pretty sure you and I just agree on everything ever. (Y)


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Am I and only a few others looking forward to the triple threat I mean Ziggler and Del Rio can still work good matches and maybe Swagger his matches on smackdown with Jericho were pretty good this year


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I think it will be a ***+ match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Del Rio vs Swagger vs Ziggler - three of the most uninteresting people that I couldn't give a fuck less about. Why do they have to destroy the WHC scene like that? The World Title is worthless now.

BROCK vs HHH in a cage sounds good although I'm bored of this feud already. Punk leaving is great, specially like that. At least happy that it wasn't the stupid fantasy booking the jokers in this forum came up with. "Lesnar F5s him and they have a match in Payback"

And Mark Henry/Show vs Sheamus/Orton on Smackdown this week? Here's hoping Orton walks out on Sheamus but I doubt it. Instead he'll probably have a match with Show at Extreme Rules. Even though I've been wanting to see that match properly on PPV, there are circumstances I'd prefer to it, such as a heel turn for Orton.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IIRC there were a few Adonis/Murdoch tags from Japan that I really enjoyed.

Swagger interests me these days, DOLPH interests me these days, but Del Rio is the most boring guy in the company to me these days, thus destroying all of the match's potential to be GREAT.

:lol @ "Lesnar F-5's him and they have a match at Payback".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Anyone get their hands on the Foley DVD yet?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

henry/sheamus is gonna be a bore fest (i dont get the love for henry in ring skills)
6 man tag might be MOTY (hard to beat Punk/taker)
triple threat can be ok del rio and swagger are very uninteresting tho
orton/show has DUD written all over it
hhh/lesner can be hit (ss 12) or miss (mania)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Yeah, del Rio brings it down a fair notch. Not a fan of multi man matches in general either (excluding tags).
> 
> Was hoping if anyone got some Dick Murdoch 'pimpage'. His promos and work in JCP has very me tempted. Hopefully there is an excellent body of work somewhere in Mid-South? Anywhere, even.


Matches that stick out from Mid South:

vs Barry Windham 7/11/87
vs Butch Reed 9/22/85
vs Butch Reed 10/14/85
vs Ted Dibiase NO DQ 12/31/85
vs Ted Dibiase 12/27/85
vs Steve Williams 6/13/87
vs Afa WWF 10/22/84

New Japan & PWFG run

w/ Adrian Adonis vs Antonio Inoki & Tatsumi Fujinami, New Japan 12/5/84
w/ Masked Superstar vs Tatsumi Fujinami & Kengo Kimura, New Japan 11/29/85
vs Antonio Inoki, New Japan 6/19/86
vs Akira Maeda, New Japan 9/14/87
vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara, PWFG 5/23/86

Murdoch is incredible.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Anyone get their hands on the Foley DVD yet?


Bought mine off Amazon so I gotta a few days. I haven't seen most of the matches on there plus I get a Mr. Socko puppet which I've always wanted. :side:


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Match selection for the Foley DVD is underwhelming tbh. Its ok but nothing to write home about.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The two hour documentary will be worth it alone.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, the documentaries are what I like most about these DVD sets. For instance, I'm fairly sure I haven't watched a single match from HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph set, but I've watched the doc like 5 times. 

LOL @ receiving a Mr. Socko.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I lost the third disk to my HBK set. No clue where the hell it is and it had some gems on it too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, the documentaries are what I like most about these DVD sets. For instance, I'm fairly sure I haven't watched a single match from *HBK's Heartbreak & Triumph *set, but I've watched the doc like 5 times.
> 
> LOL @ receiving a Mr. Socko.


:mark::mark::mark: I heard the book is different has anyone read it ?


----------



## GOON (Jan 23, 2010)

Oh man, the crowd is going to be DEAD for Del Rio/Swagger/Ziggler at Extreme Rules unless the show is taking place in a known smark city. Can't really say I blame them, though. It's hard to care about any of those three men.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Matches that stick out from Mid South:
> 
> vs Barry Windham 7/11/87
> vs Butch Reed 9/22/85
> ...


Excellent. 

Gave a check through of the listing, appears I have at least 6 of the 7 MS ones. Goodies. As for NJPW and PWFG, might struggle to find those two. Guessing a large chunk of his 70s work is not up around on the net? Seen he's had a few matches with Flair, but never managed to find those.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RockFan01 said:


> Alright so I was looking to add more wrestling DVD's to my collection. I was looking to get the Rise And Fall Of WCW DVD set and was wondering if anyone could let me know if its any good or not?


Not nearly as detailed or focused on the Crockett days as it should have been. Not surprising, but it was cool to actually see Jim & David on it. So points there. Two hour doc, which ends up being solid and fun. It's totally worth it for the brilliant set of matches added. Quality dips on disc two towards the end - which is expected considering where the company was at in the late 90's/2000. Most of it is well, well, WELL worth seeing. Midnight Express vs Rock N' Roll Express, Midnight Express vs Southern Boys, Vader vs Sting, Flair vs Steamboat I from '89, Goldberg vs DDP, Flair vs Magnum, Dusty vs Windham, etc. 

While the documentary wasn't perfect _(how could it be?)_ - must buy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dick Murdoch is in the '95 Rumble and it's AWESOME. Fun match, imho.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Excellent.
> 
> Gave a check through of the listing, appears I have at least 6 of the 7 MS ones. Goodies. As for NJPW and PWFG, might struggle to find those two. Guessing a large chunk of his 70s work is not up around on the net? Seen he's had a few matches with Flair, but never managed to find those.


I can provide a working link for each puro match mate  .

There's a 13 disc comp that basically covers most of his career. Without that you're looking at the Mid South comp and the New Japan 80s comp for his matches. Yeah quite a fair bit of his work is lost outside of the comp put together by Goodhelmet (sold by Cal & Seabs) which is a shame, including a broadway match vs Flair that many who were priviliged to watch called one of the best matches they'd seen  .

Very expressive performer, in the Funk & Arn mold. Very good striker, superb theatrical seller, intricate layout and structurer of his matches and generally an accomplished professional who just 'got' professional wrestling.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> henry/sheamus is gonna be a bore fest (i dont get the love for henry in ring skills)


Henry/Sheamus is going to be awesome. 

They are gonna brawl over the arena (hopefully) and it will be awesome and everyone will love it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Henry/Sheamus is going to be awesome.
> 
> They are gonna brawl over the arena (hopefully) and it will be awesome and everyone will love it.


hopefully im wrong, sheamus is a good worker, but I just cant get the henry/ryback match out of my head it was so bad


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dick Murdoch rips apart some jobber on a January '88 NWA weekly show and it may or may not be the best squash I've ever seen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I watched the STEINERS squash some tag jobbers last night. One dude got legit knocked out. :lmao Stiff as fuck as babyfaces.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

His wobbly leg selling in the Windham match as well as his general selling of exhaustion was spectacular. He's a guy who might not have the biggest catalogue of astoundingly great matches, but trying to pin-point a noticeably bad performance from him will be nye on impossible. He's the epitome of a showman and performer with enough intelligence & awareness to put together a logical and gripping match that puts both he and his opponent over in the process.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

going to watch Punk/cena mitb havent watched it in while hopefully its hold up at *****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NWA, WCW, or WWF squash? b/c they were positively ruthless in the early days.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Henry/Sheamus is going to be awesome.
> 
> They are gonna brawl over the arena (hopefully) and it will be awesome and everyone will love it.


It might be good, don't think it will be awesome, or the ''show stealer'' of Extreme Rules like people are thinking already.

People thought Mark Henry vs Ryback and Mania would be decent, just because Mark Henry was involved and people praise the fuck out of him on here, and that match sucked.

I think Mark Henry's alright. I dig his monster heel character and I think he's a decent big man worker, but I don't think he's as good as people make him out of be on here. He's not a top 5 worker for me imo.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Think Murdoch's squashes, along with Jimmy Garvin's and Rude/Ragin Bull, are the only squash matches I intentionally watch when busting through the weeklies. The latter just murder the teams, but the other two, do it fantastic.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WCW squash.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Picked up the foley DVD at best buy, and yeah it came with a fucking sock wrapped around it...let me say It was quite the pain in the ass getting it off the DVD too... Lol anyway haven't watched the doc yet because For some reason when I buy DVDs I always watch the second disc first....

Jack Foley / Les Thornton vs. The British Bulldogs
Superstars September 1986
Alternate Commentary: Mick Foley & Joey Styles m
-N/R.

Cactus Jack / Gary Young vs. Scott Steiner / Billy Travis
AWA All Star Wrestling October 1988
N/R

Cactus Jack Manson vs. Brickhouse Brown
Wild West Wrestling April 1989
-watched but remember nothing. Except browns pre match warm up was hilarious. *.

Cactus Jack vs. Keith Hart
Power Hour March 1990
-basic squash, only thing worth mentioning is the clothes over the guardrail and a sweet elbow by cactus... N/R

Submit or Surrender Match
Cactus Jack vs. Sting
Power Hour November 1991
-still in the process of watching

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Cactus Jack vs. Van Hammer
Clash of the Champions XVIII 21st January, 1992.
- never thought I'd ever sit through a van hammer match with a smile but foley does his thing with hammer hitting some decent offense, they battle all the way to a rodeo pen and there's even Abdullah in a cowboy get up... ** 1/2

Barbed Wire Match
Cactus Jack vs. Sandman
Ft. Lauderdale, FL May 1995
- Pretty brutal, not for everyone but anyone who appreciates this kinda of stuff will enjoy it. ***.

Cactus Jack vs. Shane Douglas
CyberSlam February 1996
Alternate Commentary: Mick Foley & Joey Styles
- didn't watch as its a repeat from the ecw unreleased set... That pisses me off.

Mankind vs. Rocky Maivia
IYH: Cold Day in Hell 11th May, 1997
**3/4 - There were some pretty nasty bumps foley was taking for neophyte rock here including a rock bottom on the steel ramp! Weird choice for a DVD but Fun if forgettable...

Mankind vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley
IYH: Canadian Stampede 6th July, 1997 ***1/2 - this was awesome, hunter works mankind's knee after chyna hiplocks him into the steps. Even in their early matches the chemistry is there. Awesome brawl after the non finish..

Decent stuff with some questionable match choices but it's foley so it's all watchable.

Kinda pissed how many repeats the set has though 

Notes:

The packaging is badass with the discs being the three faces of foley in smiley face form...


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

If Sheamus/Henry is anything like their Summerslam 2011 encounter then people should look forward to it



Tim Legend said:


> Picked up the foley DVD at best buy, and yeah it came with a fucking sock wrapped around it... It was quite the pain in the ass getting off the DVD too... Lol


:lmao


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

WWE DVD News just released information on 2 matches that will be on the War Games set.

War Games Match
Kevin Nash, Buff Bagwell, Syxx & Konnan vs. Ric Flair, Steve McMichael, Chris Benoit & Curt Hennig
Fall Brawl – 14th September, 1997

Ultimate Jeopardy Steel Cage Match
Buh Buh Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley & Mustafa Saed vs. New Jack, Axl Rotten & Balls Mahoney
ECW Cyberslam – 3rd April, 1999

Source: http://www.wwedvdnews.com/two-matches-wwe-war-games-dvd/39171/


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Keep Henry/Sheamus a sub 15 minute brawl and give enough to deliver a good match whilst saving room for a rematch which can be creative and differ instead of being an exact carbon copy and it should be fine.

Short matches when worked right can add to a card and a program and Sheamus/Henry produced good matches in '11 during their short program and Sheamus is far better suited to working off of Henry than Ryback is.

Booourns @ those matches on the War Games set btw.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit’s on a WWE DVD!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> WWE DVD News just released information on 2 matches that will be on the War Games set.
> 
> War Games Match
> Kevin Nash, Buff Bagwell, Syxx & Konnan vs. Ric Flair, Steve McMichael, Chris Benoit & Curt Hennig
> ...


Not even going to lie, that looks like it has some serious "worst match of all time" potential.

& Holy shit, I didn't even notice Benoit was there.

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Chris Benoit featured on a DVD release? :mark:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I tried watching Rock/Austin WM 17 from Austin's latest set earlier and it possibly had the worst blurring of the WWF logo ever on it. Felt like 2/3 of my screen was blurred half the time.



Choke2Death said:


> Chris Benoit featured on a DVD release? :mark:


They had to start slowing acknowledging his existence eventually. I am happy though hopefully they'll continue to include him in future releases.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Think Murdoch's squashes, along with Jimmy Garvin's and Rude/Ragin Bull, are the only squash matches I intentionally watch when busting through the weeklies. The latter just murder the teams, but the other two, do it fantastic.


Yeah, Rude was the man. He damn near had the other best squash match ever back in '92.



The Lady Killer said:


> WCW squash.


good ol WCW 



Arnold Tricky said:


> Benoit’s on a WWE DVD!


Knew they couldn't avoid it for the set.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> *Not even going to lie, that looks like it has some serious "worst match of all time" potential.*
> 
> & Holy shit, I didn't even notice Benoit was there.
> 
> YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!


You are right, that ECW match sucks. I don't know why that match had to be on the War Games set.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

New Jack match on a WWE DVD set.

:lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what made me laugh the hardest.

New Jack is filth.

When are we going to see a SINGLES Benoit match on a set damn it....


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I cannot wait for Henry/Sheamus. I love their SummerSam match and the SummerSlam re-match in 2011. This week on SmackDown we are supposedly getting Henry/Show v Sheamus/Orton. As long as Orton doesn't stink it up it should be good as shit. Hell, not even a lazy Orton job can ruin that match. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> He's a guy who might not have the biggest catalogue of astoundingly great matches,


IDK about that, his best matches fuck with just about anyone's and he has a LOT of them. The Windham match in 87, two Reed matches in 85, North/South tag v Briscos and Fujinami/Inoki in 84, 86 Inoki match, the 71 Inoki match, and Murdoch/Dusty v Muraco/Robinson are all really, really great. Well the last time I watched them anyway. After his best of the best he has the North/South tags v Wild Samoans and Fujinami/Kimura, the Afa carry-job, the other Inoki match I liked but other people seemed not to, the WWF Windham match, some St. Louis tags in 79/80, Fujinami matches in 82, the Fujiwara PWFG match which is a fun comedy-ish match, Karl Kox in 77, Murdoch v the Nigthmare, the comedy match with Pat o'Connor in All Japan that looked like the greatest comedy match ever but was clipped FUCK YOU, the matches Steve Williams in UWF are good, and the Abby match which isn't THAT good but HE HITS A FUCKING BRAINBUSTER ON ABDULLAH THE BUTCHER. So yeah buy the Dick Murdoch set is the point I am trying to make to everyone. Hell there are more matches that aren't on the set that are supposed to be good that I haven't watched yet. Like Murdoch v Otto Wanz and the Bob Orton series in WCW.


We should talk about squash matches. You know who was a great squash guy? Yoko. Amazingly mobile for his size and everything he did seemed like it was worth going for a pin after. I should be watching a bunch of squash matches on youtube and dailymotion for the fuck of it.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> New Jack match on a WWE DVD set.
> 
> :lmao


It's not the first time he has been on a WWE DVD set as his matches have appeared on the ECW Bloodsport set and the ECW Extreme Rules set.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK LESNAR - Every single one of his squashes is fucking entertaining as shit throughout his original run. Probably the best that WWE has ever had in terms of a SQUASH kind of guy. TLK mentioned The Steiners as well, another personal SQUASH favorite of mine.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's what I've been doing, Yeah. Just watching a montage of squashes. Pretty great.

Also, if Sheamus and Show wrestle @ ER, where does that leave Orton? Is he just out of the equation now (not complaining)?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lesnar was probably last really awesome squash guy. Maybe. I'd have to watch more squashes. I did like Zeke's. I want to say Mark Henry but he was barely ever a squash wrestler. He had some really fun ones in 06/07, but they weren't terribly common. Which is actually kind of good since he was getting more time and more important matches.


Sheamus is facing Henry, Greg. Orton will probably get Paul Wright. I think, anyway.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sheamus is in a feud with Henry, leaving Orton to wrestle Big Show at the event. The more I think about it, the more I realize how much filler the opening 6 man tag @ Mania was and how it was essentially just a match designed to make the Shield look strong and to give Sheamus/Orton/Show something to do for the time being.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK about that, his best matches fuck with just about anyone's and he has a LOT of them. The Windham match in 87, two Reed matches in 85, North/South tag v Briscos and Fujinami/Inoki in 84, 86 Inoki match, the 71 Inoki match, and Murdoch/Dusty v Muraco/Robinson are all really, really great. Well the last time I watched them anyway. After his best of the best he has the North/South tags v Wild Samoans and Fujinami/Kimura, the Afa carry-job, the other Inoki match I liked but other people seemed not to, the WWF Windham match, some St. Louis tags in 79/80, Fujinami matches in 82, the Fujiwara PWFG match which is a fun comedy-ish match, Karl Kox in 77, Murdoch v the Nigthmare, the comedy match with Pat o'Connor in All Japan that looked like the greatest comedy match ever but was clipped FUCK YOU, the matches Steve Williams in UWF are good, and the Abby match which isn't THAT good but HE HITS A FUCKING BRAINBUSTER ON ABDULLAH THE BUTCHER. So yeah buy the Dick Murdoch set is the point I am trying to make to everyone. Hell there are more matches that aren't on the set that are supposed to be good that I haven't watched yet. Like Murdoch v Otto Wanz and the Bob Orton series in WCW.


Yeah I've not seen most of them  . Good to know there's a ton of Murdoch out there I'm yet to be exposed to. Every match of his I've watched I've loved his performance and found him to immediately be one of my favourites. Murdoch set will likely be something I'll invest in soon, though the Dangerous Alliance set & 24 disc Regal comp is also calling to me with birthday money soon to be coming in. Still got to get properly into the Buddy Rose & AWA set in addition to the Midnight Express comp Seabs did a bulk buy for that me & Andy put money towards.

I liked the Bob Orton matches when I watched them for the WCW poll, though I don't think I'd call any match of theirs great. Moreso very good with sprinkles of greatness but suffocated for time and potentially could have been great given what we saw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> We should talk about squash matches. You know who was a great squash guy? Yoko. Amazingly mobile for his size and everything he did seemed like it was worth going for a pin after. I should be watching a bunch of squash matches on youtube and dailymotion for the fuck of it.


including vs Virgil at Survivor Series '92? IMO at least.

While it went in a different direction, I want to watch more Yoko matches from Japan now. Guy was radical.



Smith_Jensen said:


> It's not the first time he has been on a WWE DVD set as his matches have appeared on the ECW Bloodsport set and the ECW Extreme Rules set.


I laughed those times too. Match vs Public Enemy on Bloodsport is horrible.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Sheamus is facing Henry, Greg. Orton will probably get Paul Wright. I think, anyway.


Oh duh. Totally brain farted reading the last few posts. 

Paul WRIGHT



KingOfKings said:


> Sheamus is in a feud with Henry, leaving Orton to wrestle Big Show at the event. The more I think about it, the more I realize how much filler the opening 6 man tag @ Mania was and how it was essentially just a match designed to make the Shield look strong and to give Sheamus/Orton/Show something to do for the time being.


Yeah I'm an idiot.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Paul "The Great" Wright


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wanted Orton vs Show on PPV for so long. Seems like it's finally happening! Shame it is at the expense of a heel turn, though. 



MoveMent said:


> They had to start slowing acknowledging his existence eventually. I am happy though hopefully they'll continue to include him in future releases.


Yeah, the bullshit has to stop at one point. It seems like they're slowly but surely bringing him back into history with each passing year. Over in WWE.com, they're still bullshitting by ignoring him in every way possible but he's appeared in the WWE Encyclopedia, the Elimination Chamber and Nitro DVDs. Hell, Wrestlemania 29 almost felt like a homage to him. Bryan used the Headbutt, Taker used the Snap Suplex, Cena used the Crossface, Lesnar did the Cut Throat and three Germans separately but back to back. That's like all his signatures if we don't include The ROCK using the Sharpshooter. I also read a tweet that said he's appeared in one of the video packages. Don't take my word for it, though. Might watch the full show again soon just for that (as well as rewatching the rest of course). :lol


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

MoveMent said:


> If Sheamus/Henry is anything like their Summerslam 2011 encounter then people should look forward to it


I didn't really enjoy that match when I watched it, but I haven't seen it since then. May enjoy it more on a re-watch since I like Henry more now than back then.



Choke2Death said:


> Chris Benoit featured on a DVD release? :mark:


What?



KingOfKings said:


> BROCK LESNAR - Every single one of his squashes is fucking entertaining as shit throughout his original run. Probably the best that WWE has ever had in terms of a SQUASH kind of guy. TLK mentioned The Steiners as well, another personal SQUASH favorite of mine.


Speaking of Lesnar, anyone love how Lesnar destroyed 3MB last night? I thought it was awesome. When Lesnar comes out it just gives a different kind of presence that's above everyone else, he's just a monster, intimidating as hell, and it was fun to watch him destroy those jobbers. 



The Lady Killer said:


> That's what I've been doing, Yeah. Just watching a montage of squashes. Pretty great.
> 
> Also, if Sheamus and Show wrestle @ ER, where does that leave Orton? Is he just out of the equation now (not complaining)?


Probably will be Big Show vs Orton.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not to mention that HHH and HBK pay homage to him in nearly every big match when they use the crossface.

YES, that Lesnar segment last night was the pure awesomeness that we would get in a Lesnar squash, absolutely fantastic work and a big ups to 3MB for taking that punishment (especially Slater). BROCK intimidating Slater, causing him to escape the ring and run only for him to collide with a big BROCK clothesline was fantastic.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This set is called War Games: WCW's Most Notorious Matches... so we get an ECW match. Yeah, makes sense.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar destroying 3MB was the highlight of Raw by far. The quickness used to catch Slater with a stiff clothesline followed by 2 F-5s on the barricade =


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock was like a shark & Slater was a weak human with no chance of escape. What a highlight. Brock continues to be too unreal. It's not natural.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Is there a place to browse Seab's comp sets? Midnight Express set sounds like a must, even though I imagine most of their work is already on Mid-South & NWA/JCP comps.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Check Rep in a second^^



WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah I've not seen most of them  . Good to know there's a ton of Murdoch out there I'm yet to be exposed to. Every match of his I've watched I've loved his performance and found him to immediately be one of my favourites. Murdoch set will likely be something I'll invest in soon, though the Dangerous Alliance set & 24 disc Regal comp is also calling to me with birthday money soon to be coming in. Still got to get properly into the Buddy Rose & AWA set in addition to the Midnight Express comp Seabs did a bulk buy for that me & Andy put money towards.


I'd say get DA first (or, if you're getting more thane one - get DA in that set of sets). It's the easiest non-yearbook DVD to sit through ever. I still have to get AWA. I was going to wait for Cal's package to arrive but it's been seven months. IDK~ 

I'll have to hold off on MX for a year or so. I'm more into comps that don;t focus on a specific wrestler/team right now, and I only have 3 of the 7 yearbooks. That's gonna take some money.



HayleySabin said:


> including vs Virgil at Survivor Series '92? IMO at least.
> 
> While it went in a different direction, I want to watch more Yoko matches from Japan now. Guy was radical.


I don't even think I've seen that Vigil squash. I should watch it right now. Prob goes like two minutes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Not to mention that HHH and HBK pay homage to him in nearly every big match when they use the crossface.


Speaking of HHH using the Crossface. I watched the triple threat from Mania 24 the other day and when he used the move, it just SCREAMED Benoit. His best use of it by far. The way he leaned back and had that intense look on his face. It's like he was paying homage and thinking "Since you're not here with us, WM24 wont be without its own Crossface".



The Lady Killer said:


> Lesnar destroying 3MB was the highlight of Raw by far. The quickness used to catch Slater with a stiff clothesline followed by 2 F-5s on the barricade =


Yeah, it's like he moved at the speed of lightning to ringside when he caught Slater with that clothesline.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When it has a WRESTLING SUPERSTAR like Virgil in it, you know the match must be good.

I really enjoyed the Henry segment where he just arrives, fucks Sheamus up, screams "THAT'S WHAT I DO!" extremely loud, and then leaves. It was short, simple, and to the point.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Is there a place to browse Seab's comp sets? Midnight Express set sounds like a must, even though I imagine most of their work is already on Mid-South & NWA/JCP comps.


He hasn't got that Midnight Express set iirc. Not even sure if its been properly released yet, just he obtained a match listing and then asked people if they were interested in chipping money in for a bulk buy. Looks a belting set based on the match list and psyched for whenever it drops and a copy gets sent my way.



Yeah1993 said:


> I'd say get DA first (or, if you're getting more thane one - get DA in that set of sets). It's the easiest non-yearbook DVD to sit through ever. I still have to get AWA. I was going to wait for Cal's package to arrive but it's been seven months. IDK~
> 
> I'll have to hold off on MX for a year or so. I'm more into comps that don;t focus on a specific wrestler/team right now, and I only have 3 of the 7 yearbooks. That's gonna take some money.


Yeah the DA set was my main one I was looking at. Regal and Murdoch sets are also getting my attention, but if I got another I'd probably opt for the Murdoch one and hold off on Regal. Don't even ask about the Funk & Eddie and eventual mammoth Lawler set Goodhelmet is saying will drop in the summer.

Yearbooks interest me based on everything you, Andy & Seabs have wrote about them and seen Seabs has most of them if not all that have currently been released on his site. Consider a couple of those eventual purchases that I'll probably not get around to for at least 18 months  .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't even think I've seen that Vigil squash. I should watch it right now. Prob goes like two minutes.


3:34, to be exact. :mark:


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> He hasn't got that Midnight Express set iirc. Not even sure if its been properly released yet, just he obtained a match listing and then asked people if they were interested in chipping money in for a bulk buy. Looks a belting set based on the match list and psyched for whenever it drops and a copy gets sent my way..


Ah. That's unlucky. I agree on it being a fantastic set. Saw my first Stan Lane match with the MX earlier, and he & Eaton look far better than Eaton & Condrey. Having mentioned Condrey, can't wait for the Original/New feud in '88.

Are the yearbooks a 'best of' comp btw, or every major show from that year? Didn't appear to be any pre-86, which I would of had the money in hand for.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 can likely fill you in better but from past listings its pretty much a collection of the best matches from each calendar year. There might be promos included but I can't say for certain. Just know there's a ton of discs per year covering the entire year and US/Puro/Lucha and anywhere else where a worthwhile match might have surfaced.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You guys' knowledge of wrestling is fairly astounding tbh. (@ Cody/Yeah/WOOLCOCK)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Eh, its only specific to a few promotions/wrestlers. So many stuff from the 70s and early 80s I'd likely struggle on. Still, discovering something new to appreciate is what makes wrestling such a lasting joy to watch  .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> WWE DVD News just released information on 2 matches that will be on the War Games set.
> 
> War Games Match
> Kevin Nash, Buff Bagwell, Syxx & Konnan vs. Ric Flair, Steve McMichael, Chris Benoit & Curt Hennig
> ...


Ah, now I see what Choke2death was talking about. That's pretty cool. Orton's DVD should of had his title win over Benoit because he became the youngest World Champion in history from that match, it's one of Orton's biggest highlights in his career, and it was a really good match too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Don't be so humble. I need to hop on this 80s train apparently.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like to be as knowledgeable on the sport as I can.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> It might be good, don't think it will be awesome, or the ''show stealer'' of Extreme Rules like people are thinking already.
> 
> People thought Mark Henry vs Ryback and Mania would be decent, just because Mark Henry was involved and people praise the fuck out of him on here, and that match sucked.
> 
> I think Mark Henry's alright. I dig his monster heel character and I think he's a decent big man worker, but I don't think he's as good as people make him out of be on here. He's not a top 5 worker for me imo.


I think it will steal the show not just because of Henry by because he is working with Sheamus who was my WOTY for 2012 just because the guy is so damn consistent. Just let them fucking the living shit out of each other and everyone wins.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched a few :ziggler3 matches today
ziggles rey ss 09 *** 3/4
ziggles masters superstars ****1/2
ziggles jerchio ss 12**** 1/4
ziggles bryan br 10 ****
ziggles del rio sd *** 3/4


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Don't be so humble. I need to hop on this 80s train apparently.


There is a plethora of greatness just waiting to be found mate. Great matches, great angles, great promos, great performers and diverse styles etc. The pinnacle of US tag team wrestling, some of the most charismatic and richly gifted performers to ever lace up a pair of boots and so many workers competing for best of the decade.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Watched a few :ziggler3 matches today
> ziggles rey ss 09 *** 3/4
> ziggles masters superstars ****1/2
> ziggles jerchio ss 12**** 1/4
> ...


Ziggler/Jericho from Summerslam wasn't that good, I'd probably have it between ****1/2* and ****3/4*.

Ziggler/Del Rio have had a few matches on Smackdown, not sure which one you're referring to, their matches have been good though.

Those other matches I haven't seen in a long time. Been meaning to watch Ziggler/Bryan from Bragging Rights 2010 again.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The yearbooks are 30 disc, 120+ hour sets based on years. 1991-1996 are done so far, and they're planning on finishing up the 90s before heading into something else. The 80s are occupied with 80s sets right now, and I don't think they want to start the 80s before the 80s set are done, so they have a better look at what to put there. The yearbooks don't cover anything specific. The have matches (good, bad, important, well-known, highly-rated), promos, segments, interviews, Brian Pillman beating up a pencil, hell even TV commercials and random shit. It's basically 'What Happened In Wrestling This Year'.



The Lady Killer said:


> You guys' knowledge of wrestling is fairly astounding tbh. (@ Cody/Yeah/WOOLCOCK)


IDK, depends on the 'stuff'. I bet just about everybody in this thread has watched more WWE than I have because I like pretty much all kinds of wrestling. If everybody in here liked all kinds of wrestling they'd have watched what I have. I've never watched a Cena/Orton from 2009, The Clique tag in 1994, etc. I was watching Mexican stuff instead, y'know? Also helps that Cody and I (dunno about WOOLCOCK) are/were nuts that have to keep so much stuff on paper.  I 'know of' THOUSANDS of matches I've never seen before. I'm pretty sure I have never seen a single pre-WWE Claudio Castanogli (is that right? I'm not even spelling the dude's name right) match other than Cage of Death. 

If I give myself credit for anything, it's date memory. I don't know how I remember the date to so many matches and shows. Even ones I've never seen before.


WATCHED;


Yokozuna v Virgil (Survivor Series 92)
Man Virgil was so energetic. I really wish the dude didn't start out as a manservant because he has all the fieriness of decent-level babyface, and I think he has an unfair rep for being a very small name. He's moving around touching his face trying to get ready for the enormous beast he's going to try to beat LIVE ON PAY-PER-VIEW (TUNE IN AND SEE ALLLLL YOUR FAVOURITE WWF SUPAHSTAHHHHS). The crowd seem to dig him too. This starts with Yoko doing his sumo-pose and both guys running at each other before Virgil takes this weird ass bump to the mat. Usually a guy will land flat (which he did here later), but Virgil kind of lopped to his front-side; looked like the kind of flooring that would break his hand if he landed more awkwardly. I mean that was probably accidental and he likely isn't purposefully taking those sorts of things like the Necro Butcher, but it's neat to see a different kind of bump on something so small. Made Yoko seem really powerful. Virgil takes MORE moves awkwardly and I dig everyone one of them. I mean he's not exactly taking the moves correctly, but in a good way. Some wrestlers don't take a move correctly because they don't want to be hurt. Virgil takes the moves the way he does because he seems to barely know HOW to take them, and they actually wind up looking more violent as a result. That one sidewalk slam looked better than most sidewalk slams I've seen, for example. His offense isn't terribly good, but he definitely has an energy to him and you just kind of find yourself rooting for him after a bit. Yoko is fucking great. There is no reason a man as obese as him should be able to take constant dropkick bumps and get up so fast that you don't even notice him getting up. And man, I'll say whatever about Virgil's weird selling bumps, but Yoko's offnse just looks brutal sometimes. He may have the greatest leg drop ever. A leg drop usually has a wrestler arching his leg so there isn't really part connecting with the other wrestler, but when Yoko tries he just has all of this fat there anyway, so it looks vicious and life-threatening. I dig little shit like that, and it make the match more enjoyable. Wait, what have I been talking about? Awkward bumps? Vicious offense? Jesus CHRIST you want that? Virgil goes for a fucking roll-up on Yoko, and Yoko kind of just 'falls' butt-first...ON VIRGIL. Fuck sake, it was like a shoot Banzai Drop. Oh fuck I cannot imagine how much that could have hurt. It'd hurt having that much weight come down on you, but I don't know if it was planned, and I don't think Virgil expected it. He probably didn't get time for a deep breath and just....holy shit. Brutal, How have I never heard of this before? The ACTUAL Banzai Drop didn't look as bad, but Virgil was too far away from the ropes and it still looked more vicious than a regular Banzai (which is saying something). Man that match ruled.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Been watching some RAW's from 1998 for NATION HENRY and NATION ROCK. Why was the NWA title being on RAW?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That's gotta be the longest review for a 3 and a half minute match I think I've ever seen. 

Thoughts on ratings for Unforgiven 2001?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK, depends on the 'stuff'. I bet just about everybody in this thread has watched more WWE than I have because I like pretty much all kinds of wrestling. If everybody in here liked all kinds of wrestling they'd have watched what I have. I've never watched a Cena/Orton from 2009, The Clique tag in 1994, etc. I was watching Mexican stuff instead, y'know? Also helps that Cody and I (dunno about WOOLCOCK) are/were nuts that have to keep so much stuff on paper.  I 'know of' THOUSANDS of matches I've never seen before. I'm pretty sure I have never seen a single pre-WWE Claudio Castanogli (is that right? I'm not even spelling the dude's name right) match other than Cage of Death.
> 
> If I give myself credit for anything, it's date memory. I don't know how I remember the date to so many matches and shows. Even ones I've never seen before.


Nah, only thing I have committed to paper is a list of the Best 100 matches of the decade for the poll. Rverything else literally is stowed away in the 'ol noggin and from memory which is generally dependable but prone to mistakes and lapses.

I'm still discovering a ton of puro and Lucha to this day which excites me. Same with Puerto Rico after getting my teeth stuck into the Colon/Hansen feud which was stellar and gave us a serious MOTDC contender in the form of their bullrope match. I've probably watched more WWF/E than you but the early-mid 90s is really a blindspot for me. Like I still haven't really committed myself to watching Doink in '93 even after hearing so many great things about his work that year.

May give Yoko/Virgil a watch tomorrow then  .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Any thoughts on the Finlay/Mysterio match from 8 Sep 2006 on SD? Goes around 15 minutes and the finish is pretty much clean. Just got done with it and prefer it to the 24/3 match.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

I miss Virgil's tassles on his boots. 

80's Tag Team Wrestling was the best. NWA had those awesome tag team tournaments. If you're into WRESTLING, it's the way to go.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Ziggler/Jericho from Summerslam wasn't that good, I'd probably have it between ****1/2* and ****3/4*.
> 
> Ziggler/Del Rio have had a few matches on Smackdown, not sure which one you're referring to, their matches have been good though.
> 
> Those other matches I haven't seen in a long time. Been meaning to watch Ziggler/Bryan from Bragging Rights 2010 again.


sorry its the one from feb 1 13 , I prefer their main event one though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK, depends on the 'stuff'. I bet just about everybody in this thread has watched more WWE than I have because I like pretty much all kinds of wrestling. If everybody in here liked all kinds of wrestling they'd have watched what I have. I've never watched a Cena/Orton from 2009, The Clique tag in 1994, etc. I was watching Mexican stuff instead, y'know? Also helps that Cody and I (dunno about WOOLCOCK) are/were nuts that have to keep so much stuff on paper.  I 'know of' THOUSANDS of matches I've never seen before. I'm pretty sure I have never seen a single pre-WWE Claudio Castanogli (is that right? I'm not even spelling the dude's name right) match other than Cage of Death.
> 
> If I give myself credit for anything, it's date memory. I don't know how I remember the date to so many matches and shows. Even ones I've never seen before.
> 
> ...


What does it say about me that I've gone through a decent bit of Lucha while seeing next to most WWF/WWE junk + a vast amount of Indie wrestling? No life? Immense intense attention towards rasslin? I need answers. I think jotting down results for the fun of it says it all. Not that I care. I like doing it. _(EIGHT FUXIN NOTEBOOKS WORTH)_

:mark: 

I'm going to relive this match again right now. Recall it being too good simply b/c Yoko just kills Virgil like he didn't have a job to do. Standard everyday biz in the life of YOKO(ZUNA)

iirc, MoveMent, the NWA stuff was a product of an angle where Cornette was managing all of the NWA guys as a faction to work against the WWF.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bodacious bob and bombastic Bart. Or something awful like that


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The NEW Midnight Express. 

Yeah, not quite the same compared to Eaton, Lane, & Condrey.

This makes me wonder what my Midnight Express name would have been.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've seriously considered ditching the star rating as of late because sometimes it gets a little convoluted. I find myself saying "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH this match at **** 1/4* is better than I match I have at **** 1/2*! FUCK!" more than often, and since I'm a dirty bureaucrat, I need to record every single rating I've made despite losing several hard drives in the process and having to start over twice. 

Then I realize how much I love throwing out stars and shit. FUCK, I can never quit the snowflakes.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's why you just throw random stars at a match. If nothing else, it'll spur discussion because you know someone will disagree if theirs differs from yours by 1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a flawed system based on that aspect alone. No sense in putting too much emphasis on it. You love the match you love the match. Snowflakes are here for a reference in ranking really. That's about all it is worth for. No different than 9/10 or     1/2, you know?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I prefer the  system, personally.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well fuck it, I'm just gonna order Unforgiven '01. RVD/Jericho & Austin/Angle seem like they'll both be on point.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle : ******

WATCH. MATCH GOOD.

(doing a reverse YEAH review and rating a decently timed match with three words )

I like the star system, however sometimes I believe that people come on to this thread and throw out ratings for matches that they have never seen, but merely read somebody else talk about.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have Angle vs Austin at ★★★¾. A great match although nowhere near as great as the SUMMERSLAM classic!


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

Yeah1993 what are you thoughts on the Boston tragedy.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle : ******
> 
> WATCH. MATCH GOOD.
> 
> ...


From ss01? If so its one of my favorite matches from tbe 97-01 period, I have it at ****3/4

Edit: nevermind I see you meant unforgiven I habent saw it in forever I recall liking it but I'll have to watch it again before I rate it


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Austin-Angle from Summerslam 2001 is the best match in Summerslam history bar none. Austin trading in his weak flurry of punches for some insanely stiff right hands always catches me off guard. Thought the finish was perfect too, despite what some may say.

Austin's strikes post 97 weren't exactly Randy Orton Clotheslines in terms of being horrendous, but I don't like them in the slightest.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Finally going to get round to watch Brock Lesnar/Undertaker Hell in a Cell again. Not seen it since watching it live.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fantastic match unless Taker's selling of the broken hand bothers you at all.

HE HAD PAIN KILLING INJECTIONS BEFORE THE MATCH .... AND .... IT WAS AN ADRENALINE RUSH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well fuck it, I'm just gonna order Unforgiven '01. RVD/Jericho & Austin/Angle seem like they'll both be on point.


RVD vs Jericho rocks. You know what match on that show is worth seeing? That one. Quality show outside of the hilarious terrible BOD vs Kronik match. It had potential to be a heck of a slugfest. Didn't come to be. 

quick bit for the heck of it

Dudleys vs Hardys vs SHOW/Spike vs Hurricane/Storm ~ ****1/4* _(crowd was so hot for Big Show on this one spot. It's gold.)_

Raven vs Saturn ~ *1/2** _(makes you long for the days of WCW again)_

Edge vs Christian ~ ***** _(CHRISTIAN)_

Undertaker & Kane vs Kronik ~ *DUD*

Jericho vs RVD ~ ****** or     mark: :mark: :mark

The Rock vs Booker T & Shane ~ ***** _(pretty FUN, tbhayley)_

Tajiri vs Rhyno ~ ***1/2* _(a fine sprint. Tajiri = win at all times.)_

Austin vs Angle ~ ****1/2* - ****3/4* _(around that range. It's a drop off from SummerSlam. Good nonetheless.)_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

KOK you done with your Cena project yet ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Star ratings just feel cool to dish out but damn sometimes it can be a task to actually reach a final rating. Like, what the hell's the difference between ***3/4 and ****? It's one of those things that you can, 9 out of 10 times, tell the difference but you get the odd match from time to time where you just don't know what the hell to give it.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Is the triple threat (orton/cena/hhh) from WM 24 worth watching? What star rating would you guys give the match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Star ratings just feel cool to dish out but damn sometimes it can be a task to actually reach a final rating. Like, what the hell's the difference between ***3/4 and ****? It's one of those things that you can, 9 out of 10 times, tell the difference but you get the odd match from time to time where you just don't know what the hell to give it.


yea I feel the same way, whats the difference between ****1/2 and ****3/4?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The ratings should only really go up by halves.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> Austin-Angle from Summerslam 2001 is the best match in Summerslam history bar none. Austin trading in his weak flurry of punches for some insanely stiff right hands always catches me off guard. Thought the finish was perfect too, despite what some may say.
> 
> Austin's strikes post 97 weren't exactly Randy Orton Clotheslines in terms of being horrendous, but I don't like them in the slightest.


I agree with everything you said. Its number 2 on my Summerslam match list. Austin was awesome in 97 and 01, 01 been my favorite year of his he was a broke neck, no knees god that year plus I loved his blood shed vest. 
Do you have an link too the vengeance match?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

At the very least I think Unfoergiven will be a lot of fun. I love PPVs from '01... well most of them at least. Thanks for the ratings, Cody. (Y)

Star ratings are tough to differentiate why and why not you have something rated at a certain level. For instance I have Taker/HHH from Mania 27 at *** 3/4 & their 28 encounter at ****, yet I prefer the 27 match. It's something I'll probably never get away from though, unless I'm intoxicated while watching the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HWRP said:


> Is the triple threat (orton/cena/hhh) from WM 24 worth watching? What star rating would you guys give the match?


Some dislike it. I have fun with it. Better than the rematch from Night of Champions '09.

rating? ehhhh something in the ***** - ****1/2* range. Watch and see how you feel about it. (Y)

EDIT ~ No prob, Corey. '01 PPVs are always a blast. That show is no different. btw, you seen No Mercy '01? I swear I think I'm the only guy who can't get into Edge vs Christian Ladder Match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Here's another strange thing. I have HBK/Flair WM 24 at ***1/2 yet I rather watch it over Edge/Taker from that same event which I have at ****1/4.

Whenever I watch Flair/Hbk it's so emotional but I can't being myself to giving it anything more than ***1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That's gotta be the longest review for a 3 and a half minute match I think I've ever seen.






WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm still discovering a ton of puro and Lucha to this day which excites me. Same with Puerto Rico after getting my teeth stuck into the Colon/Hansen feud which was stellar and gave us a serious MOTDC contender in the form of their bullrope match. I've probably watched more WWF/E than you but the early-mid 90s is really a blindspot for me. Like I still haven't really committed myself to watching Doink in '93 even after hearing so many great things about his work that year.


Discovering new things is the best part of wrestling. It's nice that I've watched every Volk Han match ever (all 56 of them of something...), but it's also saddening that I have no new Volk Han to see.

I want to hit Puerto Rico, but if I'm going to watch big amounts of graps between now and July when I'll be busy, it really should be 2000s stuff. 

I only really watched Doink late last year, when going through the 93 yearbook. I mean I'd seen Doink before, but not the best of his matches (they don't disappoint).



Choke2Death said:


> Any thoughts on the Finlay/Mysterio match from 8 Sep 2006 on SD? Goes around 15 minutes and the finish is pretty much clean. Just got done with it and prefer it to the 24/3 match.


Is that where Rey was too distracted by the Chavo shit to wrestle properly or whatever? I dug that a lot and was actually kinda surprised how they managed to fit that story stuff in.



KingOfKings said:


> I've seriously considered ditching the star rating as of late because sometimes it gets a little convoluted. I find myself saying "AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH this match at **** 1/4* is better than I match I have at **** 1/2*! FUCK!" more than often, and since I'm a dirty bureaucrat, I need to record every single rating I've made despite losing several hard drives in the process and having to start over twice.
> 
> Then I realize how much I love throwing out stars and shit. FUCK, I can never quit the snowflakes.


Yeah that's why I gave it up. I had like 200 matches at ***1/2. If I had to go back to the flakes, I wouldn't bother giving anything under *** a rating. But then, how would I have rated Yokozuna v Virgil? It wasn't really a *** match, was it? But at the same time I thought it was far, far more enjoyable than some matches I'd give three stars to. I liked it a hell of a lot more than Angle v michaels or the HHH v Undertaker HIAC, but could I rate it higher than both of those? Do I think it seriously *wasn't* as good as those two? I loved the squash but didn't like those 'big' matches at all. I don't think Kurt/Shawn or Taker/HHH are three stars either, though. Yeah this is why I gave it up.



Spiced Out Calvin Coolidge said:


> Yeah1993 what are you thoughts on the Boston tragedy.


C'mon.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Fuck I'm annoyed. Bret/Austin from WM 13 got taken off youtube and it's not on dailymotion either. I've been wanting to rewatch it for quiet some time now. Does anyone have a link for the match? Would appreciate it a lot if someone could find me one


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> EDIT ~ No prob, Corey. '01 PPVs are always a blast. That show is no different. btw, you seen No Mercy '01? I swear I think I'm the only guy who can't get into Edge vs Christian Ladder Match.


Seen it & LOVE the ppv. Test/Kane (as someone in here mentioned today I think?) is totally looked over, awesome match. Rock/Jericho is probably the best match in Rock's career (no joke). Main Event is mad fun, great Blu Ray extra on Austin's latest set. Taker/Booker is pretty good too.

As for the ladder match, yeah, looks like you're on your own.  Gave it *** 3/4 on the last watch, which was two and a half years but still. Pretty grueling match that toned down on the major spots, liked it personally.

Now if we're talking the Jericho/Christian Ladder match from Unforgiven '04, yeah that one sucked.

EDIT: DOINK!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We're getting there with the CENA project, just 6 singles matches left to go before I move on to Cena's TAG matches. Watched one today actually (Miz/Riley vs Cena/SIN CARA of all fucking people) and it was completely awful.

About to take another gander at a personal favorite of mine, John Cena vs Edge vs Triple H at Backlash 2006. Triple H was basically in full tweener mode here and nearing the end of his GOAT King of Kings gimmick, about to move on to the shit-tastic-tacular summer of DX.

Wish that gimmick lasted longer, fuck .

The Edge-Christian ladder match isn't good at all, I'd put it on the bottom tier of WWF/WWE ladder matches TBH.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I would like to know these guys that have seen thousands of matches there personal FAVORITE of all time, think that'd be nice.

Also, I'm thinking about dropping the Top 1000 thing and just do some other projects, maybe CENA, or a MYSTERIO one, any suggestions?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There's no way I could ever do a top 100 or top 1000. A top 10, sure heck maybe 15 or 20. But 1000? I just wouldn't even know how to differentiate between #1000 and #999.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> Fuck I'm annoyed. Bret/Austin from WM 13 got taken off youtube and it's not on dailymotion either. I've been wanting to rewatch it for quiet some time now. Does anyone have a link for the match? Would appreciate it a lot if someone could find me one


Ive been looking for that match for the longest time cannot find it anywhere


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Seen it & LOVE the ppv. Test/Kane (as someone in here mentioned today I think?) is totally looked over, awesome match. Rock/Jericho is probably the best match in Rock's career (no joke). Main Event is mad fun, great Blu Ray extra on Austin's latest set. Taker/Booker is pretty good too.
> 
> As for the ladder match, yeah, looks like you're on your own.  Gave it *** 3/4 on the last watch, which was two and a half years but still. Pretty grueling match that toned down on the major spots, liked it personally.
> 
> ...


Agreed with the lot pardon Undertaker vs Booker. I don't mind their Judgment Day '04 match, but that No Mercy match is trashy. Not even in a comical sense of where I love Taker getting pissed vs Kronik the month prior. It just didn't click for me at all vs Booker.

Kane vs Test is nearly my MOTN. If only Jericho vs Rock didn't happen.

Fair enough. I always get so bored with Edge vs Christian. Loses my interest upon every single watch. Jericho vs Christian was better the last time I watched it. It's polarizing though. I think it's good and nothing more. Some brutal bumps throughout.

EVIL DOINK. Always worth my time.



KingOfKings said:


> The Edge-Christian ladder match isn't good at all, I'd put it on the bottom tier of WWF/WWE ladder matches TBH.


So I'm not alone.



Tanner1495 said:


> I would like to know these guys that have seen thousands of matches there personal FAVORITE of all time, think that'd be nice.
> 
> Also, I'm thinking about dropping the Top 1000 thing and just do some other projects, maybe CENA, or a MYSTERIO one, any suggestions?


ECW 2009 or Superstars 2010/2011 are always a blast. I've done em all (working on finishing the 2011 Superstars tbhayley) & they're a great slew of TV. Velocity at some point would rule too.

A favorite all time match of mine would certainly be Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from Great American Bash '90.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> I would like to know these guys that have seen thousands of matches there personal FAVORITE of all time, think that'd be nice.
> 
> Also, I'm thinking about dropping the Top 1000 thing and just do some other projects, maybe CENA, or a MYSTERIO one, any suggestions?


HEEL DOINK PROJECT.

Not even joking. Everything in 1993 basically, not exactly sure when he turned face and started giving kids balloons for real. He has some really damn good matches with Mr. Perfect & Marty Jannetty.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> I would like to know these guys that have seen thousands of matches there personal FAVORITE of all time, think that'd be nice.
> 
> Also, I'm thinking about dropping the Top 1000 thing and just do some other projects, maybe CENA, or a MYSTERIO one, any suggestions?


yea man that 1000 project seems impossible


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll make myself a note and watch those two ladder matches sometime soon. Been years since I've seen either, same with Taker/Booker.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Favorite match ever?

World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell ; Vengeance 2005) : ***** 3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heel Doink project. Should have thought of that. 

AHHHH. I did about half of his matches in '93 back in 2011. That was a fun few days.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Favorite match ever- Michaels vs taker wm25 ***** :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Favorite match- Punk/cena mitb or hbk/taker hiac

Edit:hbk/y2j mania 19 is ahead of those two that my altime fav


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So many Bryan Danielson matches are popping up for a favorite match ever list for me. A lot from 2006. At least vs Nigel McGuinness Unified & vs KENTA Glory By Honor V Night Two. The performance at GBH is absurd. Must be viewed by all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km58n0sXjlU

Still.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp0Wo7hLTIE


Or maybe this. Actually that's probably #2.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

For a while my favourite match of all time was HBK/Taker WM 25. 

I'll be honest though my favourite kind of matches are brawls, No-Dq that sort of stuff. I mean, don't get me wrong I can appreciate a damn good technical match but to me brawls are story telling at its best.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Is the triple threat (orton/cena/hhh) from WM 24 worth watching? What star rating would you guys give the match?


★★★★ for me. Awesome match.



> Is that where Rey was too distracted by the Chavo shit to wrestle properly or whatever? I dug that a lot and was actually kinda surprised how they managed to fit that story stuff in.


Yeah1993.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I knew that was the Andre match where they just fucked each other up from jump-street. Hard to believe many didn't know Andre pumped out matches that strong. Only thinking of his immobile days in WWF.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Favorite match ever?
> 
> World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Triple H (Hell in a Cell ; Vengeance 2005) : ***** 3/4*


(Y)

Best match of 2005 and my favorite Hell in a Cell match ever. 

My favorite match of all time would have to be - Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit - WrestleMania 20 *******


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah that's why I gave it up. I had like 200 matches at ***1/2. If I had to go back to the flakes, I wouldn't bother giving anything under *** a rating. But then, how would I have rated Yokozuna v Virgil? It wasn't really a *** match, was it? But at the same time I thought it was far, far more enjoyable than some matches I'd give three stars to. I liked it a hell of a lot more than Angle v michaels or the HHH v Undertaker HIAC, but could I rate it higher than both of those? Do I think it seriously *wasn't* as good as those two? I loved the squash but didn't like those 'big' matches at all. I don't think Kurt/Shawn or Taker/HHH are three stars either, though. Yeah this is why I gave it up.


This. I realized that in some cases I enjoyed a match far more or thought it was 'better' than another match but my ratings wouldn't reflect that so I gave up on stars.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Biggest case of that snowflakes problem for me rating something higher than a match I dig more is Eddie vs JBL from Judgment Day over Benoit/HHH/HBK WM 20. The former is rated a hair lower than the latter, despite me much more preferring Eddie vs JBL. That's one of those occasions where I'll use the ranking system, but don't give a damn what the end result says. Eddie vs JBL will always be WWE MOTY of 2004 for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's play a fun little game shall we?

Name your FAVORITE match from each of the following guys :

John Cena
CM Punk
Triple H
Brock Lesnar
The Undertaker
Steve Austin
The Rock
Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels

AAAAAANNNNNNDDDDD GOOOOOOOO (I have to think about it).


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Eddid/JBL is so fucking awesome, maybe a Top 10 Eddie performance, Top 5 maybe, so fucking good :mark:

Cena- vs Lesnar ER 2012
Punk- vs Undertaker or one of the Joe matches
HHH- vs Cactus Jack RR 2000
Lesnar- vs Cena ER 2012
Undertaker- vs HBK BB 1997
SCSA- vs Angle SS
Rock- vs Mankind RR I Quit
Hart- Honestly haven't seen enough
HBK- v Taker BB 1997


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ooh nice. This is harder than it looks, but going to be fun.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm sorry but what's the Andre match everyone is talking about? I really need to know more about his career. I swear the only match I know of his is vs. Hogan WM 3.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll give it a shot before I go to bed. They may not be accurate favs but I'll just think up whatever comes to mind first.

Cena: vs JBL - JD 05
Punk: vs Cena - MITB
HHH: vs Batista - Vengeance
Lesnar: vs Eddie - NWO
Undertaker: vs Orton - Armageddon
Austin: vs ROCK - WM17
ROCK: vs Benoit - Fully Loaded
Bret: vs Benoit - Owen Tribute
HBK: vs Taker - WM25


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Cena vs Michaels raw 07
Punk vs rey extreme rules
Triple h vs shawn Michaels summer slam 2002
Brock vs angle wrestlemania 19
Taker vs Michaels wrestlemania 25
Austin vs angle summer slam 2001
Bret hart vs austin wrestlemania 13
Rock vs austin wrestlemania 19
Michaels vs taker wrestlemania 25


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km58n0sXjlU
> 
> Still.
> 
> ...


just watched the eddie/rey match for the first time :mark and some of the Andre match which was good too Im liking you favorite two i liked to hear your top 5 matches if you could ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

John Cena ~ Punker MITB, Brock Extreme Rules 2012, Umaga Rumble '07

CM Punk ~ Cena MITB or vs Samoa Joe I, II, & III. Big sucker for the series vs Jimmy Rave. Nearly everything vs Danielson deserves a mention. WWE or Indies.

Triple H ~ anything vs Foley

Brock Lesnar ~ a lot. Obviously vs Undertaker HIAC, but I want to give a rub towards his strong TV matches. Oh and def vs Big Show at Judgment Day '03.

The Undertaker ~ So. Many. Matches. I'll say vs Mankind HIAC, and KOTR '96, AND Boiler Room Brawl,....and Revenge of the Taker. K, I love em all. I'll toss in some of my modern favorites vs Finlay & Fesus.

Steve Austin ~ vs Angle SummerSlam '01. Various tags while teaming with Dangerous Alliance mixed in.

The Rock ~ Jericho No Mercy '01. Think this will be unanimous pardon the WrestleMania 17 match. Oh crap, forgot about WrestleMania 19. Yeah, add that too.

Bret Hart ~ umm. I love the match vs Hakushi & 1-2-3 Kid forever.

Shawn Michaels ~ Anything with the Rockers. vs Brainbusters series is far and away his best next to just about anything vs Undertaker. vs Jeff Hardy on RAW in 2008 was more of a Hardy performance for me. I'll count it. What the hell. Michaels & Mysterio vs Morrison & Miz x2 on RAW in 2008 were pretty awesome too.

A quick jab. Doubt I missed anything.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena: hbk london
Punk: mitb cena or taker wm 29
Hbk: BB 97
HHH': wm 28
stone cold : tag with michaels vs bulldog and owen
bret: owen mania 10
rock: hhh first smackdown (favorite cuz hbk ref)
brock : summerslam 12
taker : hbk hiac


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Favorite match? That one is easy:






Shawn Michaels vs John Cena RAW in England is another favorite match of mine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last time I watched Bret vs Benoit I kept thinking "this was a lot better when I first watched it."

it's wrestled well enough and stuff, yet there is almost no depth to it. There was an ICP six man from the latter months of WCW in '99 I know I had more fun with than Bret vs Benoit.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Taker/HHH WM 27 - ***1/2

Good match but nothing special. It was slow and plodding a lot of the time and relied heavily on finsihers and spots. I mean there was big spots barely 5 minutes into this match, It was missing a beginning and a middle. The problem was that they were trying to wrestle the latter half of a match and it didn't come off too well in my opinion. Taker and trips were laying on the mat a lot of the time and the match was missing interesting counters and sequences which is something I enjoy. On a positive note some of the facial expressions were cool, the storytelling was good and it was a pretty decent match overall but was definitely missing that "spark" from some of the better streak matches (batista,hbk,punk,edge). Just think that this match is heavily over-rated. Punk/Taker and HBK/taker are 10 times better, same could be said with the edge and batista matches to a certain degree. Thoughts?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tried too hard in a fashion I didn't care for. Some moments I loved Taker during it. Trips was sort of unbearable.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> John Cena ~ Punker MITB, Brock Extreme Rules 2012, Umaga Rumble '07
> 
> CM Punk ~ Cena MITB or vs Samoa Joe I, II, & III. Big sucker for the series vs Jimmy Rave. Nearly everything vs Danielson deserves a mention. WWE or Indies.
> 
> ...


any hbk rocker days recommendations ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's pretty damn hard for me to pick a favorite match cause there's just so much out there. Somewhere near the top of the list would have to be the Bret/Owen Cage match from Summerslam '94. Amazing stuff.

EDIT: Rocker's recs huh? Any match vs. The Brainbusters, vs. The Orient Express at Rumble '91, & any of their AWA matches against Buddy Rose & Doug Somers.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Cena: Brock ER 12, Punk MiTB 11, Umaga RR 2007
Punk: Taker WM 29
Hbk: Bad Blood 1997 vs. Taker
HHH': Foley RR 2000
stone cold : Bret Hart WM 13, Rock WM 17, Angle SS 
bret: owen WM 10, austin WM 13
rock: Austin WM 17
brock : Taker No mercy Hiac
taker : bad blood 1997 hbk

Favorite match of all time : HBK vs. Taker Bad Blood 1997 Hell in a cell. Easily. Such an amazing fucking match. ********** match


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Taker/HHH WM 27 - ***1/2
> 
> Good match but nothing special. It was slow and plodding a lot of the time and relied heavily on finsihers and spots. I mean there was big spots barely 5 minutes into this match, It was missing a beginning and a middle. The problem was that they were trying to wrestle the latter half of a match and it didn't come off too well in my opinion. Taker and trips were laying on the mat a lot of the time and the match was missing interesting counters and sequences which is something I enjoy. On a positive note some of the facial expressions were cool, the storytelling was good and it was a pretty decent match overall but was definitely missing that "spark" from some of the better streak matches (batista,hbk,punk,edge). Just think that this match is heavily over-rated. Punk/Taker and HBK/taker are 10 times better, same could be said with the edge and batista matches to a certain degree. Thoughts?


You're not wrong here. I remember being surprised at Trips putting Taker through the "Cole Mine" so early into the match. Lot of spots. The spinebuster through the announce table, Trips being backdropped off the announce table. ALL THOSE CHAIR SHOTS

The HBK and Punk matches certainly had more "wrestling" in them. The WM 27 match might me my least favorite Streak match going back to 2008. I still have a tough time enjoying Taker/Batista.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's pretty damn hard for me to pick a favorite match cause there's just so much out there. Somewhere near the top of the list would have to be the Bret/Owen Cage match from Summerslam '94. Amazing stuff.
> 
> EDIT: Rocker's recs huh? Any match vs. The Brainbusters, vs. The Orien Express at Rumble '91, & any of their AWA matches against Buddy Rose & Doug Somers.


thanks man


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Keep Editing this shit cuz I keep remembering matches in my head Faaaaack
John Cena-JBL JD 05
CM Punk- vs John Cena- MITB
Triple H-Vs Foley RR 2000
Brock Lesnar-vs Undertaker HIAC
The Undertaker-Vs HBK WM26
Steve Austin-Kurt Angle SS 01
The Rock- vs Foley Empty arena match 
Bret Hart- Vs Owen WM 10
Shawn Michaels- Chris Jericho WM 19


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*John Cena*vs Shawn Michaels RAW in London 2007
*CM Punk* vs John Cena Money in the Bank 2011
*Triple H* vs Catus Jack Royal Rumble 2000 
*Brock Lesnar* vs Eddie Guerrero NO Way Out 2004
*The Undertaker* vs Shawn Michaels WrestleMania 26
*Steve Austin* vs Bret Hart Survivor Series 1996
*The Rock* vs Stone Cold WrestleMania X-Seven 
*Bret Hart* vs Owen Hart WrestleMania 10
*Shawn Michaels* vs Mankind In Your House: Mindgames 1996


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Okay, I think I'm there. 

John Cena - vs. HBK on Raw in London
CM Punk - vs. John Cena at MITB 2011
Triple H- vs. Rock at Summerslam 1998 (Seriously, love this match)
Brock Lesnar - vs. Undertaker in HIAC
Undertaker - vs HBK at WM 26
Austin - Really struggling here, probably vs. Rock at WM 17
Rock - vs. Austin at WM 19
Bret Hart - vs Owen Hart at Summerslam 1994 in the Steel Cage
HBK - vs Triple H at Summerslam 2002


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH and Taker doing big spots early in the WM27 match is part of the story yo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> any hbk rocker days recommendations ?


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8...-the-rockers_sport?search_algo=2#.UW4QmrWR98E

vs Powers of Pain. Tis a stellar contest.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Smackdown Money in the Bank Ladder Match
*Dolph Ziggler vs. Tensai vs. Christian vs. Sin Cara vs. Santino vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Tyson Kidd vs. Damien Sandow
_Money in the Bank 2012_

Well this got off to a pretty terrible start with Sin Cara botching the fuck out of anything he was involved in. That was the majority of what happened in the first part of the match; botches & execution issues. Luckily there are some BOSS ass spots that pick up the slack. Zig Zag off the ladder, Spear off the ladder, & Tensai absolutely destroying Cara & Ziggler on the outside are all :mark: I legit laughed hard everytime Santino fell off a ladder, it was clearly something he's not used to doing. Overall a fun watch but bogged with execution flaws & therefore one of the weaker MITB matches. All about that Ziggler moment here.

*** 3/4*

EDIT: Just watched that Rockers/PoP tag. Date is 1/15/90. Super fun stuff, such a simple formula I'm sure they worked like 33 times together.  If you liked that one Cody, I know you'll love Hart Foundation vs. Twin Towers.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*John Cena* vs. Punk MITB 2011
*CM Punk* vs. Samoa Joe II (MOTD)
*Triple H* vs. Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000
*Brock Lesnar* vs. Chris Benoit Smackdown 12/4/03
*The Undertaker* vs. Shawn Michaels WM 25
*Steve Austin* vs. Bret Hart WM 13 (GOAT)
*The Rock* vs. Triple H Backlash 2000
*Bret Hart* vs. Steve Austin WM 13
*Shawn Michaels* vs. Chris Jericho No Mercy 2008 (also my favorite Jericho match)


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Who's yall favorite "superstar" ever. I didn't want to use the term wrestler lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH and Taker doing big spots early in the WM27 match is part of the story yo.


^^^^



Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Who's yall favorite "superstar" ever. I didn't want to use the term wrestler lol


Triple H.

To round out top 5 it'd be:

HBK
Scott Hall
BROCK
Danielson

Taker and Foley are up there too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I guess I'll separate the terms superstar and wrestler and cut it down like this for favorite superstars:

Shawn Michaels
CM Punk
Steve Austin

------------------------------------------

Punk vs. Ryback at HIAC - ** 1/4. Nothing awful but nothing great, Ryback sucks. Everything after the Maddox low blow is AWESOME though.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hbk will always be my favorite but pound for pound Eddie is very arguably the 
Goat if I'm been unbiased. The guy was great technically, high flying, brawling and in cases even as an powerhouse. Had great mic work amd was amazing heel or face. Guys like him and jericho are their own breed. 
Top 5:
hbk
Taker
Orton
Punk
Eddie and jericho


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I guess I'll separate the terms superstar and wrestler and cut it down like this for favorite superstars:
> 
> Shawn Michaels
> CM Punk
> ...


I was just making a joke because vince doesn't want wrestlers called wrestlers anymore lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Favorite ever: Triple H, hands down.

One of my favorite runs is Hollywood Rock. Might not have lasted long, but just about everything he did was gold.

HBK, Taker, and Punk in the mix also.

Edit: For a good laugh: 



Spoiler: Stupidity



http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/774010-triple-h-gay-brock-lesnar-something-4.html


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Top 5 is hard.

1. Eddie
2. The Rock
3. Ric Flair
4. Mick Foley
5. Stone Cold

Not sure how definitive that is other than 1. but it would go something like that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, fuck. Top 5 is tough. Somehow forgot Flair.

Top 10 is a little easier:

HHH
HBK
Hall
BROCK
Danielson
Taker
Foley
Flair
Austin
DiBiase, Sr.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

1. Triple H
2. Eddie Guerrero
3. Ric Flair
4. CM Punk
5. Daniel Bryan


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

1. Eddie
2. The Rock
3. Ric Flair
4. Mick Foley
5. Stone Cold
6. Macho Man
7. Undertaker
8. Taz
9. Danielson

I'm still at a loss for 10 :lmao I'ma go ahead and say Mark "Ratings" Henry.

I'm surprised they never made a Ted Dibiase DVD set, part of the reason i'm excited for that Mid South DVD.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, ER 2012
CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, WM29
Triple H vs. Ric Flair, Taboo Tuesday 2005
Brock Lesnar vs. Cena ER 2012/Eddie NWO 2004/Taker HIAC/Angle Summerslam 2003
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels HIAC
Steve Austin vs. Bret WM13/Angle Summerslam 2001
The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, NM 2001
Bret Hart vs. Owen WM10
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker HIAC
_________________________________________________________________________

My Top 10 would probably go something like this.

1. Undertaker
2. HBK
3. Eddie
4. Foley
5. Jericho
6. Benoit
7. Brock
8. Bryan
9. Sheamus
10. Cena


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Same. I loved him growing up. Such a great heel. Kicking the basketball away from that little kid + trademark laugh + little kid's face afterwards is like my favorite segment ever. 

I need to hit up WOOLCOCK or Yeah1993 or one of those old school wrestling aficionados for some good 80s non-WWE TED stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Smackdown Money in the Bank Ladder Match
> *Dolph Ziggler vs. Tensai vs. Christian vs. Sin Cara vs. Santino vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Tyson Kidd vs. Damien Sandow
> _Money in the Bank 2012_
> 
> ...


Said MITB only has a few standout moments. It's quite weak overall. Best part was Tensai tossing Dolph headfirst into one of the announcer chairs. ***1/2*, imo.

Radical. I was hoping it would have been worked under the simple format. (Y)


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I had high hopes for Ted Jr. when he debuted


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Did he finally get released?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone who says Triple H/Taker WM27 is a flop, are to thick to see the magnificent story being told behind the finishers and spotz.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top Ten:

1. Bret Hart
2. CM Punk (He's taking that #1 spot soon)
3. Chris Jericho
4. Undertaker
5. Shawn Michaels
6. Bryan Danielson
7. Randy Savage
8. KENTA
9. Christian
10. Eddie Guerrero

I really want to put Ricky Steamboat or Owen Hart in there. Don't know who to take out.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Did he finally get released?


Nah he's partly injury prone, last thing I remember him doing was turning on Cody during Cody's "Not so Dashing" gimmick and before that he flopped with the Million Dollar gimmick. Not sure if he's injured right now or if they just aren't using him.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Top Ten:
> 
> 1. Bret Hart
> 2. CM Punk (He's taking that #1 spot soon)
> ...


Id have steamboat or owen over Christian but this is your list. My favorites arent necessarily who I believe are the best if so orton wouldnt be there. I think I need to do a best and favorites list

Who are you guys top 5 mic workers? Mine:
Punk
Savage
Foley
Roberts/rude
The rock (when he's focused)


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Million Dollar man is one of the best characters and heels ever he's definitely a top 5 heel for me. 
Fave 5 heels:
2009 punk
2008-9 orton
Million Dollar man/ jbl
2008-9 jericho
2000 hunter/ 80s flair

Fuck it my top 10 wrasslers:
Hbk
Taker
Orton
Punk
Eddie/jericho
Savage
Flair
Foley
Benoit (although he doesn't exist)
Edge
Steamboat/angle


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Totally forgot about Christian. He needs to hurry up and return.

Only just realized that Cesaro lost the US title to Kofi. Ew.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

John Cena - vs Punk SS 11, it's actually my favorite match of the last few years believe it or not. Love, love, LOVE it and it doesn't get anywhere near the credit that it deserves.

CM Punk - Besides the aforementioned Cena match? NOC 12 vs Cena :lol.

Brock Lesnar - SO MANY LESNAR MATCHES TO CHOOSE FROM. Stretcher Match vs Big Show JD. Two big guys beating the piss out of each other, Lesnar jumping off of a forklift = AMAZING. Perhaps the most overlooked match of the last 10 years.

Triple H - OH JESUS. If you looked at my top 10 favorite matches ever, GAME would probably be in like 8 or 9 of them, I just adore the guy to fucking pieces. My favorite match ever is probably Batista-HHH in the cell, but another few matches of his that would be in my top 10 favorites ever would be vs Flair SS or vs Eugene SS. The Eugene match is probably a top five favorite match for me as well TBH.

The Undertaker - Without a shadow of a doubt it's vs HHH WM XXVII for me, as it was the utimate way to pace and orchestrate a finisher fest to make it an artistic masterpiece. The best of HHH's part time matches as well.

Steve Austin - vs Bret SS. I think the Mania match is better, but there's just something about the mix of intensity and smoothness that makes this so awesome. It has become forgotten amongst casuals I would imagine, but it's clearly a top 10 match ever for me.

The Rock - vs BROCK SS by far.

Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XXIII vs Cena, but it's also hard to ignore the greatest match of all time in the cell against The Undertaker.

Bret Hart - vs Diesel SS. MOTY 1995 from me by a long shot, that or the Davey Boy match. BRET OWNS.

TOP 10 Favorite 'Superstars' Ever

Triple H
CM Punk
BROCK LESNAR
Ric Flair
John Cena
Bret Hart
Scott Steiner (YES)
Chris Jericho
Randy Savage
Chris Benoit/Eddie Guerrero/Rey Mysterio/Taker (Can't Decide between four of the best workers in company history)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Favourite match from these individuals :

John Cena - vs Cm Punk MITB 2011
Cm Punk - vs John Cena MITB 2011
Triple H - vs Cactus Jack RR 2000
Brock Lesnar - vs Chris Benoit SD 2003
Undertaker - vs Shawn Michaels BB 1997
Steve Austin - vs Dude Love OTE 1998
The Rock - vs Chris Jericho No Mercy 2001
Bret Hart - vs Owen Hart Wrestlemania 10
Shawn Michaels - vs Ric Flair Wrestlemania 24

My Top 10 favourite superstars :

1. Shawn Michaels
2. Chris Jericho
3. Mick Foley
4. Steve Austin
5. Cm Punk
6. Triple H
7. Brock Lesnar
8. Christian
9. Owen Hart
10. Ric Flair

Shoot need to put Daniel Bryan in there as well :yes


EDIT: Bret vs Diesel SS 1995 :mark::mark::mark:

Would have to be my second favourite Bret match and MOTY for 1995 as well (Y) awesome match a top 50 in WWE history for me.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Top Ten Favorite Wrestlers
1. Edge
2. The Rock
3. The Undertaker
4. Chris Jericho
5. Shawn Michaels
6. Stone Cold
7. Randy Orton
8. Mick Foley
9. Brock Lesnar
10. Daniel Bryan

I have had 1-5 for years but 6-10 has changed. Danielson makes the list because I have been a huge fan of his since ROH. I had a tough time choosing between him and Eddie though. Triple H, Cena and Punk aren't far behind either.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I had no idea you guys were doing this top ten favorite lists but I was making my top *50* favorite WWE Superstars and came out with this weird as fuck list.

Roughly in order, I'd say the bottom 10 is highly flexible on leaving and you'll notice my absurd love for one superstar that's had less then five matches.

1.	Eddie Guerrero
2.	Shawn Michaels
3.	Stone cold
4.	Bret Hart
5.	CM Punk
6.	Randy Savage
7.	The Rock
8.	Ultimate Warrior
9.	Chris Jericho
10.	The Undertaker
11.	Mick Foley
12.	Jake Roberts
13.	Daniel Bryan
14.	Goldust
15.	Rey Mysterio
16.	Bam Bam Bigelow
17.	John Cena
18.	Triple H
19.	Mr. Perfect
20.	Kurt Angle
21.	Brock Lesnar
22.	Edge
23.	Rick Rude
24.	Christian
25.	Dolph Ziggler
26.	Roddy Piper
27.	Batista
28.	Booker T
29.	Kane 
30.	Mark Henry
31.	Fandango
32.	Chris Benoit
33.	Sheamus
34.	Randy Orton
35.	Jeff Hardy
36.	William Regal
37.	JBL
38.	Umaga
39.	Davey Boy Smith
40.	Big Show
41.	Eugene
42.	Cody Rhodes
43.	D-Lo Brown
44.	Rikishi
45.	Tajiri
46.	MVP
47.	Yokozuna
48.	D-Lo Brown
49.	John Morrison
50.	Rob Van Dam


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wonder if Johnny Curtis is proud one match with his new gimmick made him beat William Regal on your list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> just watched the eddie/rey match for the first time :mark and some of the Andre match which was good too Im liking you favorite two i liked to hear your top 5 matches if you could ?


Top 5 greatest or favourite? The former I'm not sure about because it's been so long since I've seen what I'd call the best ever. I think it might be Misawa v Kawada 6/3/94, Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue 6/9/95, Flair v Steamboat COTC (maybe....I'd have to watch all of them again), MS-1 v Sangre Chicana 9/23/83 and...uhhh.....God I don't even know. Lawler v Dundee? Santo v Casas? Again, it's been YEEEEARS since I've watched most of these.

Favourites are even tougher. Rey/Eddie, Andre/Hansen, uh, maybe the 5/22/92 All Japan six man and Vader v Dustin Rhodes Clash 94 and Fujiwara/Choshu 6/9/87. Benoit/Finlay at Judgment Day is one of my absolute favourites. Dunno about top 5, but it's somewhere there. Vader v Sting GAB 92 and SuperBrawl 3 are close as well. 1992 WCW would have tons of contenders. I am at a total blank right now. I need to watch more Mexican minis as they would possibly fill out the list b/c they are seriously becoming my favourite style of wrestling. Really I'm only comfortable saying Rey/Eddie and Hansen/Andre are top 5 favourites.



KingOfKings said:


> Name your FAVORITE match from each of the following guys :
> 
> John Cena - Umaga LMS
> CM Punk - Probably the Rey match from 2/12/10 but I want to watch their whole series again. The Mark Henry match the night after Mania 28 is close.
> ...


EDITED.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I listed Taker's match vs Festus as one of my favorites. You're in the clear if you're putting over one of his matches vs Mark Henry.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Top 5 greatest or favourite? The former I'm not sure about because it's been so long since I've seen what I'd call the best ever. I think it might be Misawa v Kawada 6/3/94, Misawa/Kobashi v Kawada/Taue 6/9/95, Flair v Steamboat COTC (maybe....I'd have to watch all of them again), MS-1 v Sangre Chicana 9/23/83 and...uhhh.....God I don't even know. Lawler v Dundee? Santo v Casas? Again, it's been YEEEEARS since I've watched most of these.
> 
> Favourites are even tougher. Rey/Eddie, Andre/Hansen, uh, maybe the 5/22/92 All Japan six man and Vader v Dustin Rhodes Clash 94 and Fujiwara/Choshu 6/9/87. Benoit/Finlay at Judgment Day is one of my absolute favourites. Dunno about top 5, but it's somewhere there. Vader v Sting GAB 92 and SuperBrawl 3 are close as well. 1992 WCW would have tons of contenders. I am at a total blank right now. I need to watch more Mexican minis as they would possibly fill out the list b/c they are seriously becoming my favourite style of wrestling. Really I'm only comfortable saying Rey/Eddie and Hansen/Andre are top 5 favourites.
> 
> ...


Is mindgames still high on your list? I'm it was your top wwe match for a while


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Edge/Hardy from Summerslam 2005 is definitely the best singles match from each men (above Edge/Taker too). Something about all those stiff shots, the whole story of lita betraying one man to go with another, the classic heel performance by Edge and the phenomenal babyface performance by Matt. It is the definition of the word "fight" and should be brought up more often when the discussion of the best matches of each men arise.

Call me crazy but it's a *****1/2 *match for me. Might even do a full review, later today.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

GOATAntics said:


> Edge/Hardy from Summerslam 2005 is definitely the best singles match from each men (above Edge/Taker too). Someone about all those stiff shots, the whole story of lita betraying one man to go with another, the classic heel performance by Edge and the phenomenal babyface performance by Matt. It is the definition of the word "fight" and should be brought more often when the discussion of the best matches by both men arise.
> 
> Call me crazy but it's a *****1/2 *match for me. Might even do a full review, later today.


That's definitely a match that should get talked about more. Due to it being more of a 'fight' and the length it probably gets forgotten by most. It really had a vicious feel to it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> That's definitely a match that should get talked about more. Due to it being more of a 'fight' and the length it probably gets forgotten by most. It really had a vicious feel to it.


I hate when real life issues disrupt two performers in the ring, but it worked to a great extent in this situation, It definitely made the match better than if there wasn't any legitimate beef between the two.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've put over Hardy vs Edge more times than I care to count. All of their matches in 2005. Cage match is a top three WWF/WWE match with that given gimmick. Edge's best match ever.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

How would everyone rate their 2005 matches?

Summerslam - ****3/4*
Unforgiven Cage - *****1/4*
Raw Street Fight - Can't recall, will watch today.
Raw Ladder Match - ****1/2*

Did they have any more that year?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hmmm, Edge/Matt inside a cage, gonna have to take a gander at that one, haven't watched it yet. What's your rating for both the SS and Cage match, Hayley? If you don't mind me asking.

EDIT: AHB already expressed his ratings when he ninjed me, DAMN YOU!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam ~ ****
Street Fight ~ ****
Steel Cage ~ ****1/2
Ladder ~ ***1/4

Do think that is all of their matches. Possibly a tag in-between. Unsure though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Will watch that Street Fight again today, can only remember the ending. A great series between them though, you don't get midcard feuds like that anymore.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Let alone ones with a burning passion of hate thrown in. Best case scenario, the hate bred damn near the best series seen by each man in their career. Firmly stand behind it being Edge's best work out of his whole tenure.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I may be going too balls out on the SS match, gonna have to watch all of their matches together before coming to a decisive rating. Anyways, what the hell were they fighting for in the ladder match, Lita's BRA? :lmao.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Poor matt edge fucked his girl and he gets released than he is brought back has a brutal rivalry with edge and loses that too. Great rivalry though don't remember the cage match too much but the summer slam match was pretty awesome although I still like edges feud with taker and cena more.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

GOATAntics said:


> I may be going too balls out on the SS match, gonna have to watch all of their matches together before coming to a decisive rating. Anyways, what the hell were they fighting for in the ladder match, Lita's BRA? :lmao.


It was for Edge's MITB briefcase, and whoever lost had to leave Raw.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Brock Lesnar - SO MANY LESNAR MATCHES TO CHOOSE FROM. Stretcher Match vs Big Show JD. Two big guys beating the piss out of each other, Lesnar jumping off of a forklift = AMAZING. Perhaps the most overlooked match of the last 10 years.


How'd I miss this post? Anyway quoting this because THAT is probably my favourite Lesnar match.



Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Is mindgames still high on your list? I'm it was your top wwe match for a while


It's a top 5 WWE match match, but I wouldn't have a lot of WWE matches on a 'greatest' list. Like, if I made a list of Top 100 Greatest Matches I've Ever Seen, I wouldn't have ten WWE matches on it, and there's hundred of matches I'd imagine I would watch that would bump even more WWE off of the 100. Mind Games right now is somewhere near top 50...... I'm guessing? It's always going to be a favourite, though. Was my #1 favourite for a while but it's more like top 15-20 now. Another watch and it could be top 5. I don't make my mind up all too often.


Wasn't Hardy/Edge at SummerSlam like five minutes?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Only around 4:44 or something. Brilliant for the time given.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> It was for Edge's MITB briefcase, and whoever lost had to leave Raw.


Arrr, Yes. I forget Edge had that breifcase that he held more close than his GF. :lmao.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Wasn't Hardy/Edge at SummerSlam like five minutes?


Yeah, that's one of the reasons I don't rate it really high. Though the length made sense and the abrupt ending added to the feud. Definitely one of the best matches of that length though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hatred shown through in the small time window is too good for words. The punches to the head, gnarly kicks, reckless spear through the ropes spot. Those guys didn't care about a wrestling match. They were out for blood. It captured the intensity needed for a grudge of the sort. Nothing better in the world of wrestling than having something honest to goodness legit fuel you. Brought out in spades during the months Hardy & Edge were tearing each other apart.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's a top 5 WWE match match, but I wouldn't have a lot of WWE matches on a 'greatest' list. Like, if I made a list of Top 100 Greatest Matches I've Ever Seen, I wouldn't have ten WWE matches on it, and there's hundred of matches I'd imagine I would watch that would bump even more WWE off of the 100. Mind Games right now is somewhere near top 50...... I'm guessing? It's always going to be a favourite, though. Was my #1 favourite for a while but it's more like top 15-20 now. Another watch and it could be top 5. I don't make my mind up all too often.
> 
> 
> Wasn't Hardy/Edge at SummerSlam like five minutes?


Yeah ik your major on Japan and like 80s territory stuff. I like some 80s territorial stuff but im mainly wwf/e . Never even seen any Japan material ill have too check some out one day. Ik you pimp misawa a lot so maybe I'll start there


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Edge/Matt may not be the GOAT match of all time but i guess, you could say it was the GOAT feud advancer match of all time?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the length is deceiving to some right now. Fact it wasn't a long winded affair, like how the later gimmick matches would be, only added to the realism of the fight. Fights in real life don't last a good bit of time. One can only take shots to the head for so long before someone has to bow out. Much was the case at SummerSlam. Going full tilt with brutal shots to the head only could have had the match last as long as it did. Coupled with the pro wrestling element of the pole shot & it was a done deal.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

*Wrestlemania 29*

Rewatched a few matches earlier this morning, so underwhelming

SHIELD/Show/Fella/Orton: ****1/4* THIS NEEDED MORE TIME. Ending still sucks, the Spear wasn't that great (first i think Reigns hasn't annihilated his opponent) it's a fun match, set at a good pace but just ends so abruptly. Show's spear to all three is still great.

Ryback/HENRY: *** Urgh, so dull. Not even Henry's demeanor and taunts make this worthwhile. Ryback just doesn't play a face in peril well, the BEARHUGS were sleep inducing, ending couldn't come quick enough.

Hell No/Ziggles & Biggles: ***1/2* Good pace to it, but again just way too quick. Big E looks pretty good here showing his power against Kane and i gotta admit Ziggler's nearfall almost had me. The aftermath with the WHOLE place just chanting Yes was pretty sweet.

Faaaaaaan-Daaaaaaaaan-Gooooo/Y2J: ***3/4* It wasn't terrible, not at all but you could tell Curtis was nervous and he didn't go all out as it were. Jericho controlled the match, as he should being the wiley veteran. Ending is very confusing and odd but Jericho lies down for a new guy once again. He gives so much back to the business.

This is all i got round to this morning. Swagger & Del Rio next up, yay.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm the only guy who got a good big of enjoyment out of Henry vs Ryback it seems. Interesting.

Opener was great. Ending earned no complaints from me.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

The Hardy/ Edge feud was great, you could definitely see they hadn't put everything behind them and were using it as a way to beat the shit out of each other. Still love the fact that Edge came out on top of the feud, yeah I stole your Girlfriend, you got fired then I kicked your ass when you came back.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Henry/Ryback worked exactly how I DID NOT want it to go. It should have remained a faster pace, hard hitting clash (like Taker/Batista or Taker/Show). Instead, they decided to give it too much time and the damn bearhugs which did not work mainly because Ryback is a terrible babyface in peril. I liked the start, finish was alright not spectacular, and the aftermath was a sight to see but the middle portion drags the match down a lot for me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That match really should have been a few minutes tops. That's what everyone expected but it went on way too long.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 10 favorite "superstars":

Chris Benoit
Randy Orton
Undertaker
Stone Cold
The Rock
Brock Lesnar
John Cena
Eddie Guerrero
Rey Mysterio
Chris Jericho


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Huh. I expected it to go around the eight minute mark like it did. That explains it.

Can't say I went in expecting two guys who are used well to not get a decent bit of time on WM.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well it seemed everyone thought "oh two big guys together? Will be a 4 minute slugfest." That might not necessarily have made it a better match of course.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Huh. I expected it to go around the eight minute mark like it did. That explains it.
> 
> Can't say I went in expecting two guys who are used well to not get a decent bit of time on WM.


The time is another complaint I have with the match. Should have been about 3-4 minutes of hard-hitting action. Ryback's selling is nearly unbearable to watch for the time he had in this match. Ryback/Henry is probably the only WM 29 match I didn't really enjoy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sole fact it was Henry dominating is where I found fun in it. Didn't even mind the bearhugs. Can't say I have a single bit of displeasure while watching. Despite me thinking it could have been much better. I won't deny that. It was an average match _at best_. Nothing more. Henry wins & Ryback gets a moment. It averaged out well enough.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

RYBACK


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

On the subject of the Matt Hardy/Edge series, I think everybody NEEDS to appreciate Matt Hardy 2005-2010. I think I would probably say the guy was one of, if not THE most consistent, "non main-event" worker the company had during that time period, with only really Rey Mysterio to challenge him, even though he was often in the main event scene himself.

his series vs. Edge
Finlay's debut match and the amazing 07 match (can't remember the date)
4-Way TLC tag match
he made MVP look good for fuck sake
his awesome ECW run with his matches against Mizark
his heel turn and matches against Jeff were decent, IMO
the matches against Drew Mac

and that's just off the top of my head. The guy rules the world and I hate how his whole career, by some anyway, is judged entirely based on his meltdown over the past few years, although he is getting right back on track and doing well in ROH. Any more MATT HARDY gemz?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

King Kenny said:


> RYBACK


Offense is definitely his strong point and appeal. Just running through opponents. In a similar way to Goldberg for the most part. Not the most impressive sellers in the world and that is why the shorter matches work best for their style and skills.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I hated this year's WM, only two matches came through for me and they were Taker/Punk & Lesnar/Trips. Everything else was just an array of mediocrity, It didn't feel like Mania' at all. Hopefully, WWE reclaims themselves when WM30 rolls around and i hope to the heavens above, that Taker/Cena is on the card, everything else i could give less shits about, if that specific match happens.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> On the subject of the Matt Hardy/Edge series, I think everybody NEEDS to appreciate Matt Hardy 2005-2010. I think I would probably say the guy was one of, if not THE most consistent, "non main-event" worker the company had during that time period, with only really Rey Mysterio to challenge him, even though he was often in the main event scene himself.
> 
> his series vs. Edge
> Finlay's debut match and the amazing 07 match (can't remember the date)
> ...


Matt had another long match vs Finlay on ECW in '08. vs Evan Bourne from Cyber Sunday owned too.

I liked his matches vs Punk in '09 too. Umm...he had a short tag w/Morrison vs Hart Dynasty that was better than most tags with time involving other tag teams in WWE over the last few years. There is a good amount, but you covered most ground with his work. Matt Hardy is the man. I still enjoy his work today. He's easily one of the better workers in ROH right now. Some can deny this. Nativity, tbhayley.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Matt Hardy even held his own with HHH and Jericho on a Smackdown Triple Threat I watched a few weeks back. Solid match, and Hardy has always been an underrated worker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, fun match. I think he had a fun match with Chavo in late '08 for the ECW Championship too. Not to mention the matches vs Swagger. _(Cal will appreciate that. At least for the TV match.)_


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

If Matt stuck around, I could of seen him winning the WHC and feuding with Orton, Sheamus, Bryan, Chrisitan and Henry. Man, those matches would of been so :mark: worthy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thought the company axed him. Either way, Matt looked to be getting the Christian treatment for the rest of his career, sadly. Without the brief World Championship runs in-between.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Thought the company axed him. Either way, Matt looked to be getting the Christian treatment for the rest of his career, sadly. Without the brief World Championship runs in-between.


Did they? Just proves the company's stupidity, once again. Why fire such a capable worker, I mean they left Khali for christ's sake and don't give me the BS of he attracts the indian community cause i'm sure that stuff is false.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> Did they? Just proves the company's stupidity, once again. Why fire such a capable worker, I mean they left Khali for christ's sake and don't give me the BS of he attracts the indian community cause i'm sure that stuff is false.


It's all true actually, they view him as some sort of celebrity god over there.

I stand by what i've always said, Matt > Jeff and it's almost a crime that Jeff had i think 3 world title/WWE title reigns and Matt had the ECW "world" title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

India is like WWE's second or third biggest market. Khali will always have a job at this rate.

I've gone back and forth between which Hardy is better in my mind. Matt can certainly have the edge during the time of 2005 - 2006 before Jeff returned to the WWE clean. Than upon his departure Matt managed to pump out the work vs McIntyre, Rhodes, & Del Rio in 2010 which demolished everything Jeff did in TNA the same year. _(maybe I'm sleeping on a VERY select few of matches. vs AJ Styles & w/RVD vs Beer Money. That's about it. Jeff's promo work following his heel turn was his true highlight of the year)_ Both are outstanding babyfaces though. That's what make it so tough for me, personally. Jeff has that charisma which leaps off the page even more than what his brother is capable of. At their peak, both are really really great imo. That alone is what should be stated here. This decision isn't as easy as it is with Christian or Bully topping Edge & Devon from their respective teams.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Matt and Jeff were great as a team and even better as individual performers. What they are good at really compliments each other well. JR once described Jeff as the "sizzle" of the team and Matt was the "steak." Both men are great examples of babyface in peril. I think Matt is a bit better at selling injures and structuring the build and pacing of a match. Jeff is just so charismatic with his individual personality that draws a connection with the fans. Jeff is a crazy bumper and works hard in big matches and some matches where he may not even need to put so much on the line. I love both guys, honestly. However, if I had to choose it would be Jeff for me. He is such a great top babyface imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah the bumping of Jeff was where I had a bit of a challenge in deciding if that would lead as an advantage to put him over. Matt's selling though. I know Jeff sells well b/c quite frankly, the bumps bring such brutality, but Matt can make you feel for him SO much with his selling more often than not. It was a driving factor in the matches vs Edge, vs McIntyre, & in the 6/22/07 match vs Finlay. No matter which faults have come from either brother, you can't deny their passion and drive for the biz. Look at now. Both are in a good place and doing what they do. Both contribute quite a bit to each promotion too. Jeff as the biggest babyface today in TNA & Matt as the far and away pick for most hated in ROH.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I might just actually go as far to state Jeff is my favorite babyface in the business today not just TNA. He's that good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Jeff > Matt for me. Such an easy babyface to root for. No matter what I always wanted to see him do well for himself in the context of whatever storyline he happened to be in at the time because he was always so vulnerable. I never enjoyed watching Matt as much as I did his brother.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Is Taker a tweener? cause he talks about taking souls, death and burying people alive. wouldn't that make him so?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can firmly buy that. Especially with Generico off the market atm.

Had to plug Generico. He was my pick for the best babyface out there. _(well, still is)_ Jeff has to be top three for me. If not number two.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> I can firmly buy that. Especially with Generico _*and Evan Bourne*_ off the market atm.
> 
> Had to plug Generico. He was my pick for the best babyface out there. _(well, still is)_ Jeff has to be top three for me. If not number two.


Fixed


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Touche. Has to be WWE's best on the main roster. If not John-boy given the proper situation. He actually HAS to be in peril to make it work, haha.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

First two confirmed matches for the *"Wargames: WCW's most notorious matches"* set



> War Games Match
> Kevin Nash, Buff Bagwell, Syxx & Konnan vs. Ric Flair, Steve McMichael, Chris Benoit & Curt Hennig
> Fall Brawl – 14th September, 1997
> 
> ...


Only WWE


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Ever Wolf said:


> It's all true actually, they view him as some sort of celebrity god over there.
> 
> I stand by what i've always said, Matt > Jeff and it's almost a crime that Jeff had i think 3 world title/WWE title reigns and Matt had the ECW "world" title.


I agree. Matt is far Moreno dependable imo you never know when Jeffrey will go on a drug binge. Plus matt is an awesome heel or at least he was in his "e" year's jeff is an grest face because he connects with fans and as said takes nasty bumps(I'll never forget him vs taker) but If i was vince or an high up for an wrestling company I wouldn't take a shot with Jeffrey unless I was desperate. He's had some solid matches but I prefer matt in that department as well.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Wonder if Johnny Curtis is proud one match with his new gimmick made him beat William Regal on your list.



He better be. I'm sure he'll fall on the list, I'll get sick of him or WWE will screw him up.

Regal I think would be higher if I loved more then just his matches the last few years. 

I'm more surprised I have Cena that high considering I don't like him anymore lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> I would like to know these guys that have seen thousands of matches there personal FAVORITE of all time, think that'd be nice.


Oh man, Yeah1993's suggestions were pretty bossy but I'll add a few more:

Damiancito El Guerrero vs Cicloncito Ramirez, CMLL 1/7/97
Stan Hansen vs Carlos Colon Bull Rope March, WWC 1/6/87
Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikea, FUTEN 4/24/05
Shinya Hashimoto vs Steven Regal, New Japan 4/16/95
Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura, RINGS 1/22/97
Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee, Memphis 12/30/85
Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk, Memphis 3/23/81
Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo Jr, CMLL 2/28/86
Finlay vs Matt Hardy, WWE 6/22/07
Toshiaki Kawada vs Genichiro Tenryu, All Japan 10/28/00



The Lady Killer said:


> I need to hit up WOOLCOCK or Yeah1993 or one of those old school wrestling aficionados for some good 80s non-WWE TED stuff.


vs Flair 11/6/85
vs Duggan 3/22/85
vs Duggan 3/8/85
vs Magnum TA, Tulsa 5/27/84
w/ Matt Borne vs Junkyard Dog & Mr Olympia 10/27/82
vs Dick Murdoch 12/31/85
vs Magnum TA 7/6/84
vs Dick Murdoch 12/27/85
vs Duggan 7/29/83
vs Magnum TA, OKC 5/27/84




Yeah1993 said:


> Wasn't Hardy/Edge at SummerSlam like five minutes?


Yep. Edge throws a shoot headbutt and Hardy puts in possibly his best selling performance of his career. Nasty fight which breaks every cliche notion of what a WWE brawl is worked as and feels like a 00s take on a dirty 80s sleazy bar fight.

Watch Regal/Ohno from NXT btw. Pretty sure it'll be one of the few matches from WWE this year you'll rivetly enjoy. Regal masterclass and Ohno putting in his NXT career performance.



FluxCapacitor said:


> Finlay's debut match and the amazing 07 match (can't remember the date)


6/22/07. 6/22/07. 6/22/07. 6/22/07. 6/22/07.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Top 5 favorite wrestlers is easy for me.

1) Christian
2) Edge
3) Jarrett
4) Angle
5) JBL

Christian and Edge will always be top two, and they're much above the rest, by far my two most favorite wrestlers of all time.

A top 10 would be harder, but guys like Jericho, RVD, Hassan, and maybe HBK would be there.

I've never been a big fan of many top guys. Wrestlers like Austin, Taker, HHH, I've always sort of liked, but not enough for favorite status.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I took Matt Hardy off my top 50 list early on but he'd probably be on there in the mid 40s somewhere. I thought his Mattitude run was gold and his feud with Edge was awesome but then he had the appendetomy and his career spirled down. Last few year or two in WWE he was in awful shape.

I also thought his feud with Jeff was terrible. They have no chemistry against each other..

Haven't really watched him in ROH because I got out of touch with the company but I hope he does well.

Preferred Jeff over Matt but alot of it is just his unique personality and his willingness to put his body on the line. He needed focus in ring and not get much offense to really work. That's where TNA screws up with him.

Both lock hall of famers. I hope they go in with Lita honestly.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tried to get back on XWT there and it worked! 

:mark: :mark:

Foley doc should be ready for viewing in about an hour. After that I don't know what to go for. Probably whatever stuff from 2011 I don't have access to.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

list moved to next page.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*Favorite wrestlers* (no order)

- CM Punk
- Triple H
- John Cena
- HBK
- Undertaker
- Austin
- Flair


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Stan Hansen
Terry Funk
Bam Bam Bigelow
"Dr. Death" Steve Williams
"Adorable" Adrian Adonis
Hulk Hogan


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 9th August 2004 - Triple H & Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit*

Benoit was supposed to be teaming with Eugene in this match, but Eugene has left to check on Regal after Triple H took him out earlier in the night. Benoit announces this at the start before running through both Orton and HHH early, with some big chops and a selection of German suplexes on HHH. Benoit then heads to the top rope, but Flair distracts him long enough for HHH to hang him up on the top turnbuckle. From here on out, most of the match is a big heel control segment as HHH and Orton ground Benoit and beat him down severly. Trips hits a beautiful vertical suplex while Orton excels with some vicious uppercuts and grounds Benoit with a few headlocks. Benoit tries to chop his way out of the punishment but HHH hits him with a big Double-A Spinebuster. Benoit rolls to the outside and with the ref distracted even Flair gets in on the act with a low blow.

Orton continues to control Benoit before making a mistake by heading to the top rope and Benoit catches him out and byes himself some time. HHH tries to interfere but he gets hit with a German Suplex, before Benoit scores with a superplex on Orton. HHH attempts the Pedigree but is back dropped over the top rope. Benoit then locks Orton in the Sharpshooter before Flair tries to interfere and Benoit knocks him down. Orton lays in wait for the RKO but Benoit counters neatly into the Crossface, before Flair interferes and the match ends in a disqualification. HHH then hits a Pedigree on Benoit in the aftermath and goes to retrieve a chair. Eugene then returns and beats down all of Evolution as Raw goes off the air.

A pretty standard handicap match, with the heel team in control for most of the bout, before the babyface makes a comeback. A non-finish soured it slightly but it was understandable as creative clearly wouldn't want to make Orton look weak by tapping out just before his face turn. Benoit still looked ruthless and this set up Orton/Benoit and HHH/Eugene Sunday at Summerslam nicely.

*****

*Raw 20th September 2004 - Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Randy Orton & Shelton Benjamin*

About a month and a half later, and 8 days after Unforgiven where HHH beat Orton to regain the World Title. The three remaining members of Evolution try to make a statement before the upcoming Taboo Tuesday PPV. HHH and Shelton start it off, with HHH in control early on before Shelton begins to counter and HHH looks suprised. Although he shouldn't be considering Benjamin pinned him twice earlier in the year. Flair and Benoit then go at it together and try to out-chop one another. Flair briefly gets on top before Benoit counters with a nice enziguri. Orton tries to intervene but is knocked to the outside where HHH whips him into the post before Batista hits a mean clothesline. Orton looks in pain as Raw goes to commercial.

After returning Orton has been taken to the back thanks to Batista's big clothesline. Unfortunately Benoit and HHH have been mixing it up during the break and we aren't able to see any of it because Benjamin is tagged in. He takes out Batista and Flair with splashes in the corner, then aims for HHH who counters with a high knee. Batista hits a big powerslam and now Evolution are in control. Benjamin tries to come back but is stopped after a big Spinebuster from HHH. Flair is then tagged in and locks Shelton in the Figure Four but Shelton refuses to tap. HHH then gets back in and works on the now weakened legs of Shelton. Shelton can't seem to make the tag before finally he hits a big kick on Batista and tags Benoit in, who goes ham with German suplexes on everyone. He locks Flair in the Sharpshooter but Batista arrives and hits a Spinebuster. Benjamin knocks him to the outside before suddenly Orton arrives back, tags himself in and hits the RKO on Flair for the victory.

Solid TV match. Anything with Evolution involved around this time was pretty awesome and this is no exception. Good action throughout.

****1/4*

Not the most exciting entry but two solid TV matches. Next up we have another six man tag with a few different performers, before the Survivor Series 2004 main event.



Spoiler:  So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Vengeance 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 26/7/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit (Iron Man) - ***1/2
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Raw 20/9/2004: Triple H, Batista & Flair vs Benoit, Orton & Benjamin - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Raw 9/8/2004: Triple H & Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Favourite Wrestlers

Rock
HHH
Jericho
Foley
Flair
Hogan
Edge 
Guerrero
Undertaker
Savage


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

WWEDVDNEWS.COM just revealed the bonus content for the Wrestlemania 29 DVD & Blu-ray. 



> Special Features
> 
> Interactive Pre-Show Intercontinental Championship Match
> Wade Barrett vs. The Miz
> ...


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

TOP 10 GOAT WWE/WWF MATCHES OF ALL TIME : 

1) HBK vs. Taker Bad Blood 1997 HIAC
2) Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Wrestlemania 13
3) HBK vs. Taker Wrestlemania 25
4) Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena Extreme Rules 2012
5) Chris Benoit vs. HHH vs. HBK Wrestlemania 20
6) Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle Royal Rumble 2003
7) Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat Wrestlemania 3
8) The Rock vs. Stone Cold Wrestlemania 17
9) HHH vs. Taker Wrestlemania 28 End of an era
10) Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart King of the ring 1993

Thoughts? anyone else wanna do a list ?


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Re: the Mind Games match

It's like a great on-going sex, then the chick's father comes in. Yeah.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

_*The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar - No Mercy 2002 - HIAC*










This match tends to be argued upon a lot, some people prefer to give it a low rating while the majority sways to a very high one. This HIAC match to me is very, very entertaining, The cast being the main object between defeat and victory interlined with the in-ring action very well. I did also enjoy the parts where Brock was trying to tear the cast apart with a chair and Heyman in the background, groaning with his sadistic voice and blood trickling down his face. The whole match put Lesnar over as the next top guy and more importantly as a BEAST. Taker's unselling of the hand AFTER he gets hit with the steel steps, I say "after" because he sells the hand pretty well after the cast gets ripped off, It's not until he gets brutalized with the steps till the selling of the hand goes out the window. Anyways, It's very understandable though, Taker has to be dazed, confused and forgetting shit after that heavy blade job, also the blade job puts Brock over more as a monster than the "broken" hand ever did. So i don't really understand the hold onto this one flaw. Overall, This is one of the most brutalic and violent matches in the HIAC stipulation ever and i loved every second of it.

*****1/2*​_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I rewatched the 2004 Royal Rumble and it's such an awesome match! Just great from the very first second until the final one. Benoit & Orton's first interaction together and then it coming down to being only them until around entrant #20 was pretty cool. There's also plenty of story advancements with Foley eliminating Orton (and they have a great brawl until they run to the back post-elimination), Kane being distracted by Taker's gong, Goldberg getting F5ed and everything from when it comes down to the final six participants and definitely the ending. Also amazing to see how Bradshaw turned it around in half a year. Here he's the first eliminated in the Rumble like a jobber after spending less than a minute in the ring but by summer time, he was challenging for and winning the WWE Championship. ★★★★½ for this Rumble.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
> _Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_


Another great write-up. Can't wait until you reach their 2005 matches as I'm interested in more opinions on their Raw 14/3/05 match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks. That match will be reviewed in about 4 entries time. In fact, I end with three consecutive HHH/Benoit matches from 2005, so it'll be a fitting end to the series. Still got some top stuff before that though, with the Survivor Series 04 main event as I mentioned, plus the HHH/Benoit/Edge triple threat from Raw and the NYR 05 Elimination Chamber especially. :mark:


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Great work, Bounty Hunter with the Benoit/Hunter series. I'm a massive fan of both guys' work, so it's very fun reading them.

I feel pretty much the same as you, except for the tag team match between Benoit-Hunter and Rock-Jericho. It was so entertaining.

Their match at Vengeance was bad, honestly. It was okay-ish until Eugene came and after that, well... Their IM match should have been a lot better considering their talents, but if the match had a competitive last ten minutes--something they were building upon--it would have gone notches higher, but the Eugene stuff tainted a solid match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm trying to wrap my head around who Benoit's greatest WWF/WWE opponent is.

Finlay? Regal? HHH? Jericho?

The fact that Benoit and Mysterio have only had ONE singles match ever kind of blows my mind.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Foley doc is awesome btw. Not finished yet but it has been great so far.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Razor King said:


> Great work, Bounty Hunter with the Benoit/Hunter series. I'm a massive fan of both guys' work, so it's very fun reading them.
> 
> I feel pretty much the same as you, except for the tag team match between Benoit-Hunter and Rock-Jericho. It was so entertaining.
> 
> Their match at Vengeance was bad, honestly. It was okay-ish until Eugene came and after that, well... Their IM match should have been a lot better considering their talents, but if the match had a competitive last ten minutes--something they were building upon--it would have gone notches higher, but the Eugene stuff tainted a solid match.


Thanks man. Yeah, their Vengeance and Iron man matches are a little disappointing. I still like them, but both times the finish really hurts the match. Damn Eugene! I'm quite sure that if both matches have proper finishes they would be rated higher by most people.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Since The Undertaker is going to be working next week or perhaps Extreme Rules or something, it makes me beg the question ; WHY THE FUCK . DIDN'T THEY DO. TAKER vs PUNK. STREAK vs TITLE. I AM FUCKING PISSED. Seriously, it's disgusting to think that Punk could have just dropped the belt to Undertaker and Cena could have won it at Extreme Rules or something in a triple threat match where Taker doesn't take TOO MANY bumps, thus setting up The Streak vs CENA in the next year. Putting the title on The Undertaker for 6 weeks makes just as much sense on putting it on the Rock for 70 days, just as many people get over too (ZERO).

Instead we got a shitty Rock-Cena II that nobody wanted to see, Punk-Taker in the fucking midcard stealing the show, and a 70 day title reign that served no other purpose than gathering some cheap publicity and getting the belt back on Cena (and I LOVE Cena). FURIOUS.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That's a good point. Most people's excuse for it not being Punk's streak vs Taker's streak was because Taker wouldn't have a chance to defend to title when he won it. But as you said if he is indeed working another match within the next month then they could have easily done it. But of course, they had to give Rock the title for that 'mainstream attention' that Vince so desperately wants.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thankfully I didn't buy Mania but rather streamed it using a HDMI cable with my friends, there's no fucking chance I was paying for a show that has Rock-Cena II as a main event. NO BUYZ.

Extreme Rules? Yeah I'm buying that shit since it won't be 60 dollars and it won't make me suffer through another Rock match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Vince may like The Rock for the mainstream attraction and money he gains for the company but i'm sure he respects/likes Undertaker more as a person overall.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rocky is pretty much Vince's idea of the perfect superstar if there ever was one.

Punk's return feud in about two months (not buying the dirtsheets; Punk will be back for Payback in Chicago)? Sheamus is really the only guy I can see him feuding with at this point, MAYBE Orton if they want to put him in another main event program.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd be very happy to see Punk/Sheamus upon Punk's return. I'm sure they've got Lesnar/Punk lined up for a big PPV at some point too. (How could they not given the Heyman involvement?)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Rocky is pretty much Vince's idea of the perfect superstar if there ever was one.
> 
> Punk's return feud in about two months (not buying the dirtsheets; Punk will be back for Payback in Chicago)? Sheamus is really the only guy I can see him feuding with at this point, MAYBE Orton if they want to put him in another main event program.


NO, YOU SHUT UP, UNDERTAKER IS THE PERFECT STAR.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Since The Undertaker is going to be working next week or perhaps Extreme Rules or something, it makes me beg the question ; WHY THE FUCK . DIDN'T THEY DO. TAKER vs PUNK. STREAK vs TITLE. I AM FUCKING PISSED. Seriously, it's disgusting to think that Punk could have just dropped the belt to Undertaker and Cena could have won it at Extreme Rules or something in a triple threat match where Taker doesn't take TOO MANY bumps, thus setting up The Streak vs CENA in the next year. Putting the title on The Undertaker for 6 weeks makes just as much sense on putting it on the Rock for 70 days, just as many people get over too (ZERO).


That would of been much better. Rock/Cena II didn't need the title, and I wish Taker/Punk would of main-evented WrestleMania. Punk needs a WrestleMania main event before he retires, most top guys of eras have one (Cena, Orton, Edge, Batista, Triple H, HBK).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rock wanted the title and he got it. Simple as that. I also think that there's definitely something that has happened/is ongoing regarding this whole Rock situation and that's the reason why Taker/HHH/Brock are going to work Extreme Rules. Something has obviously happened somewhere that has forced them to change plans. I don't think for a second that Taker and HHH/Brock would be on the ER card if Rock was getting his rematch there. Not a chance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Lesnar NEEDS to main event Wrestlemania XXXI.

They'll do Rock/Brock or Taker/Brock next year no doubt. Since the rumors are that Brock-Rock would have only been at Summerslam anyways, I'm optimistic that they'll probably do Taker/Brock and something else at XXX. Rock-Cena III will happen at a big 4 PPV down the road, maybe Royal Rumble 2014 or something like that. Rock WILL indeed be challenging for the title again, against who is virtually unknown at this point.

I don't think Cena/Taker happens either TBH. If Cena/Taker ever happened then either The Streak would end, or Cena would have a program where he definitively comes out on bottom, neither of which are happening.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk's only real shot at main eventing Mania is when Rock's not there to take it up because I simply don't see Rock working Mania and NOT being the last match on the card. The only scenario I can see that happening is if Cena/Taker happens because they would be beyond fucking retarded to think that any match can follow that one. As long as Rock's there, nobody else is getting the closing spot at Mania imo because he's always going to be in the biggest match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't think Rock wrestles at XXXI, that's why I think Punk/Lesnar will main event.

Like I said, Cena-Taker makes too much sense, therefore it will NOT happen. Honestly think Cena-Rock III is a bigger possibility at this point TBH.

Actually, do you know what WOULDN'T surprise me? Wrestlemania XXX headlined by Rock-Cena-Punk in a triple threat match for the title and BROCK-TAKER w/HHH as referee or some shit. I just have this feeling that they're going to wat multiple full timers to main event Mania XXX, kind of like how Wrestlemaia XX ended with two hard working mother fuckers hugging in the ring.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

If Punk was to main event a WM, Cena should be he's one and only opponent. They've already proven they can produce quality, so i don't see what's the big deal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't think Rock wrestles at XXXI, that's why I think Punk/Lesnar will main event.
> 
> Like I said, Cena-Taker makes too much sense, therefore it will NOT happen. Honestly think Cena-Rock III is a bigger possibility at this point TBH.


Agree with this, Cena/Taker 99% of the fucking world wants, so that ain't happening, and I do think there is a big possibility of Rock/Cena III with Rock winning tbh.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Sadly, I don't think Punk is a big enough attraction on his own to main event Mania. If he was to do so, it would have to be with a big draw. Cena or Lesnar seem the best bets, two matches I'd happily watch in the main event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK-Taker is pretty much a lock if you ask me due to the inevitable Brock-HHH-Taker connection mixed with the fact that Taker has came out and supposedly said that he has one more Mania match left in him for BROCK.

Actually, (going to stop speculating after this) it wouldn't surprise me to see Brock-Taker @ XXX main event due to it being Taker's last match ever. XXX ends with Taker on top for the last time in his career.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I don't think Rock wrestles at XXXI, that's why I think Punk/Lesnar will main event.
> 
> Like I said, Cena-Taker makes too much sense, therefore it will NOT happen. Honestly think Cena-Rock III is a bigger possibility at this point TBH.
> 
> Actually, do you know what WOULDN'T surprise me? Wrestlemania XXX headlined by Rock-Cena-Punk in a triple threat match for the title and BROCK-TAKER w/HHH as referee or some shit. I just have this feeling that they're going to wat multiple full timers to main event Mania XXX, kind of like how Wrestlemaia XX ended with two hard working mother fuckers hugging in the ring.


It'll be Bryan and Punk hugging, if Punk wins, It'll be Cena and Sheamus hugging, If Cena wins and It'll be Christian and Rock hugging, If Rock wins.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll cry if Cena/Taker doesn't happen. If they give us Rock/Cena III at Mania XXX I will legit crack up. I'm going and I DO NOT fucking want to see that again and most definitely NOT at the expense of Cena/Taker. That match simply MUST happen. It's the biggest match they have left imo and the perfect way to end the streak matches. If they were going to do Brock it should have been this year. They missed their chance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Christian? What?

If you look at Taker's career though, it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't take on Cena at Wrestlemania ; Taker's been the guy who you build people up to face. Look at all of those sub par opponents Taker has performed with over the years ; they've all been built up seperately than the number one contender. I wish I could put it into better words what I'm trying to say now, but there's a reason why Taker hasn't spent that much of his career being world champion ; he's a different entity all together than the rest of the roster. When you cross the paths of Taker and Cena at Wrestlemania, you pretty much go against every single thing Taker represents in the company. Brock-Taker makes all the sense in the fucking world and Cena-Taker doesn't at all due to these reasons.

I don't have a fucking clue what they're going to do with Rock, Cena, Punk, & HHH (besides the referee thing I suggested) at XXX, but I'm almost dead set on them doing Taker-BROCK. It's happening, I would actually bet my house on it at this poit for it to happen at XXX.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> vs Flair 11/6/85
> vs Duggan 3/22/85
> vs Duggan 3/8/85
> vs Magnum TA, Tulsa 5/27/84
> ...


How hard are these to find?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Christian? What?
> 
> If you look at Taker's career though, it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't take on Cena at Wrestlemania ; Taker's been the guy who you build people up to face. Look at all of those sub par opponents Taker has performed with over the years ; they've all been built up seperately than the number one contender. I wish I could put it into better words what I'm trying to say now, but there's a reason why Taker hasn't spent that much of his career being world champion ; he's a different entity all together than the rest of the roster. *When you cross the paths of Taker and Cena at Wrestlemania, you pretty much go against every single thing Taker represents in the company.* Brock-Taker makes all the sense in the fucking world and Cena-Taker doesn't at all due to these reasons.


Don't know what you're getting at here at all, KOK, especially the bold part. Cena is the face of the company, Undertaker IS the company and has been as long as Cena has been there. And even if you disregard all that, one thing John Cena has never done is try to end the streak. How can it not make sense? It would be crazy for them not to have a match, absolutely crazy.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Christian? What?
> 
> If you look at Taker's career though, it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't take on Cena at Wrestlemania ; Taker's been the guy who you build people up to face. Look at all of those sub par opponents Taker has performed with over the years ; they've all been built up seperately than the number one contender. I wish I could put it into better words what I'm trying to say now, but there's a reason why Taker hasn't spent that much of his career being world champion ; he's a different entity all together than the rest of the roster. When you cross the paths of Taker and Cena at Wrestlemania, you pretty much go against every single thing Taker represents in the company. Brock-Taker makes all the sense in the fucking world and Cena-Taker doesn't at all due to these reasons.


Well, Rock did say Christian was he's favorite wrestler (kayfabe) and i don't know who else would be willing to celebrate with The Rock considering he's hogged the spotlight 3 years in a row now.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Rock/Brock is too big for Summerslam imo. 

I think Punk needs another big win before he can main event a Mania. All the exposure he gets from working with Rock and Undertaker has benefited him but it can only take him so far when he's losing. Ideally it would be HHH at WM 30.

Cena/Undertaker
Rock/Brock
HHH/Punk

Cena/Undertaker has to happen at some point based on the fact there isn't a lot left for Cena to do in his career and they have no intention it seems as moving away from him as the #1 in the company.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

The should do a a final "settle the score" match at WM30 between Punk and Cena in an iron man match. I don't care if that means the show will be 5 hours. unk


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It doesn't make sense because Taker was NEVER about facing the top guy on the biggest stage. You always built up a guy for the world champion to take on, and you built up a monster heel for The Undertaker to take on, that's how it has always worked when it comes to Undertaker for the most part. Undertaker NEVER took the shine away from the Rocks and the Austins of the world (when they were the number one guy of course), and the only time he would really go against HUGE names would be on B PPVs.

At the same time they've built up world title contenders, they've built up guys (Heidenreich, Henry, Khali being examples) to feed to The Undertaker. Taker and the absolute top guy NEVER mix.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> It doesn't make sense because Taker was NEVER about facing the top guy on the biggest stage. You always built up a guy for the world champion to take on, and you built up a monster heel for The Undertaker to take on, that's how it has always worked when it comes to Undertaker for the most part. Undertaker NEVER took the shine away from the Rocks and the Austins of the world (when they were the number one guy of course), and the only time he would really go against HUGE names would be on B PPVs.


I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Taker/Cena makes all the sense in the world to me. Taker has fought for world titles at Wrestlemania before as well as facing monster heels, young upstarts trying to make a name for themselves, ageing legends and respected peers. He's faced them all at Mania. I really don't know what you're getting at with this one lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> It doesn't make sense because Taker was NEVER about facing the top guy on the biggest stage. You always built up a guy for the world champion to take on, and you built up a monster heel for The Undertaker to take on, that's how it has always worked when it comes to Undertaker for the most part. Undertaker NEVER took the shine away from the Rocks and the Austins of the world (when they were the number one guy of course), and the only time he would really go against HUGE names would be on B PPVs.
> 
> At the same time they've built up world title contenders, they've built up guys (Heidenreich, Henry, Khali being examples) to feed to The Undertaker. Taker and the absolute top guy NEVER mix.


Austin and Rock's time were way before the streak's, Cena's time as the top guy is now and the streak is at it's biggest, currently. This match has all the reasons in the world to happen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not happening because it means that Cena has a feud in his career that is unavenged, going against all logic that the WWE has given us over the past 8 years or so. Cena ends feuds on top, regardless of who he's going against, and nobody is going to end the streak. It would do HUGE business and I really fucking want to see it headline XXX, I just don't think it's going to happen because of the fact that SOMEBODY has to lose, in the end keeping The streak alive is better for business, and having Cena not win a feud is unthinkable.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I can see them not doing the match because they're fucking retarded but not for the reasons you've set out here which don't make a lot of sense to me if I'm being honest. Simply put, they'd be absolute fools NOT to do it because it's one of if not the biggest match they have left. The Undertaker vs. John Cena at Wrestlemania sells itself. It simply has to happen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They WOULD be fools not to do it, and that's exactly why they're NOT going to do it .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DONT SAY THAT DAMMIT! It WILL happen...

Btw, this whole part about the HIAC with Taker on the Foley doc is crazy. His injury list is ridiculous and I mean ridiculous. Then Vince comes after and tells him that he appreciates what he just did for the company but that he never wants to see him do it again. 

Mad man.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> It's not happening because it means that Cena has a feud in his career that is unavenged, going against all logic that the WWE has given us over the past 8 years or so. Cena ends feuds on top, regardless of who he's going against, and nobody is going to end the streak. It would do HUGE business and I really fucking want to see it headline XXX, I just don't think it's going to happen because of the fact that SOMEBODY has to lose, in the end keeping The streak alive is better for business, and having Cena not win a feud is unthinkable.


Edge and punk are clearly the winners over cena in the feud especially punk. Edge got tbe belt in matches with cena in it 4 times and won the final match and punk is a million and one vs cena with his loss been on raw. I have wanted to see cena vs taker since 2008 so I hope it happens


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena came out on top against Punk, and Edge won the last big singles match against Cena due to interference by Big Show ; something that would be non existent if Cena-Taker ever happened. I'm thinking Brock-Taker main events XXX as Taker's last match and that we slowly start seeing the part timers move away from the product, starting with Taker and Rock over the next year, with BROCK at XXXI, and Triple H moving away from most competition besides when he comes back as CORPORATE GAME somewhere down the road.

If the rumors of BROCK/Rock originally being scheduled at Summerslam are true, than there's a 100 percent chance that Cena/Taker isn't happening at XXX.


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> WWEDVDNEWS.COM just revealed the bonus content for the Wrestlemania 29 DVD & Blu-ray.


Special Features

Interactive Pre-Show Intercontinental Championship Match
Wade Barrett vs. The Miz

WrestleMania Post-Show

Complete 2013 Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony featuring Bruno Sammartino, Mick Foley, Bob Backlund, Trish Stratus, Donald Trump and Booker T.


Blu-ray Exclusives

Monday Night Raw – 3.18.13:
Triple H & Brock Lesnar Contract Signing

Monday Night Raw – 3.25.13:
CM Punk wants to end the Streak

Legends Q&A Session with The Rock & John Cena.



Those special features look like crap. Not a great incentive to buy this already mediocre Wrestlemania.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

little late to party but favorite superstars
1)HBK
No specific order for the rest
Punk
taker
ziggler(not joking loved the guy since Hi Im dolph Ziggler day)
hhh
savage
rey
bret
flair


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

If we're going by current favorites in the company then mine are:

- Ziggler
- Punk
- Sandow 
- The Shield

Didn't include any of them in my other favorite list because that list was about my all time favorite wrestlers, but I'm sure in a few years the likes of Punk and Ziggler will be somewhere in my all time favorites list. Especially Ziggler. It says a lot when Ziggler's been my favorite wrestler in the company since 2009.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

current would probably be
Punk
ziggler
Jerchio
Rey(if he even counts anymore)
Rhodes
that just goes to show you how interested am going to be in the product in the near future with 3 out of those 5 gone


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

If Undertaker/Cena happen at Wrestlemania next year I see Cena ending the streak 100%.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

For the lulz, Top 5 gimmick match wrestlers in WWE history? (in no order)

- The Undertaker
- Mick Foley
- Triple H
- Bob Backlund
- ? (Benoit, Hart, Austin, Michaels... ? ? ?)

Please don't say Edge.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Why? Edge was one of the best gimmick match workers, from his early days teaming with Christian in TLC matches, Cage match with Angle, feud with Matt Hardy which featured a great street fight and Cage match, some good stuff with Cena, Elimination Chamber matches, Hell in a Cell with The Undertaker, TLC with Flair.



The Hardcore Show said:


> If Undertaker/Cena happen at Wrestlemania next year I see Cena ending the streak 100%.


Lol. It won't happen. The streak won't end. The Streak defines Taker's career and he'll retire with it being still in tact. 

Like many of the previous streak victims, Cena probably has too much respect for Taker to want to end it. And can you imagine the hate Cena would get if he was the one to end it? That of course on top of all the hate he gets already.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker 
Foley
HHH 

Those are easily the top 3 gimmick match wrestlers imo. Terry Funk, but he wasn't really in WWE long enough.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd have to agree. HHH probably the king of the gimmick match, way too many to name that he has excelled in.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top 10 favorites in the company NOW (full timers only)?

CM Punk
The Shield
Mark Henry
John Cena
Daniel Bryan
Dolph Ziggler
Jack Swagger

I can't do 10 without adding people I'm not interested in AT THE MOMENT like Big Show and orton due to them being in a terrible program. So yeah. Sheamus would be somewhere in there as well.

Top 10 least favorite (full timers) :

Alberto Del Rio
Kofi Kingston
The Miz
Ryback
R-Truth
Santino
Sin Cara
Brodus Clay
The Great Khali
Hornswoggle (if he counts)?

Watching a bunch of Cena tags now, and there's one from last July which pitted Bryan and Jericho against Cena & Punk, and the match was fucking AWESOME until AJ showed up and there was a retarded as fuck ending. There are some ridiculously consistent Cena tags out there man, so far everything I've seen from him as a tag worker has been Good/GREAT outside of a few obviously terrible matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So Foley and Triple H have just ruined the Wrestlemania 2000 main event for me. I mean, I didn't think it was awesome or anything like that before but after hearing Foley basically say that he was fighting not to do the match, his heart wasn't in it and HHH tell a hilarious story of how all Foley wanted to do was not get hurt in the match so he could take his kids to Disneyland only for him to think he could make the jump to the announce table, not, in fact make the the jump to the announce table, and end up hurt after all, well... :lmao. I won't be able to watch that bit without laughing now. Well done guys. At least they didn't talk about the Rumble or NWO matches and end up ruining them. "There goes Disneyland."


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Only full-timers I even remotely care about atm:

SHIELD
Dolph
Danielson
Cesaro
Henry
Punk

Jericho, BROCK, Taker, HHH are all part-timers so they don't count. Fandango is growing on me because of his theme/ability to play his gimmick perfectly.

Everyone else = GARBAGE


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Current full timers:

Punk
Ziggler
Shield
Bryan
Henry

That's all the guys I tune in for. There's others that I've got nothing against. Cesaro perhaps but fuck his current yodeling gimmick. It's legit annoying. The only workers I choose to ignore on purpose are the obvious ones (Khali, Santino etc).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Anybody else seen the Foley doc yet then?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No but I'm dying to.

You watch it?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No, sounds very good though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Your favorite promo vids? I'll start.

Taker/Trips 1 - 3 (All of their video packages were awesome)
Austin/Rock
Cena/JBL WM21 (Surprisingly good)
Trips/Foley RR 2000
Kane/Taker WM20
Orton/Taker Armageddon 2006

Those are off the top of my head.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's great. Just working my way through the extras now. Definitely worth a watch. He's very honest in it too about the times he had some issues with WWE and his thoughts/feelings on himself as a performer at certain times in his career. Great stuff.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Foley has always been a pretty open guy so not surprised that he's being honest about a lot of stuff. Really looking forward to watching it.



GOATAntics said:


> Your favorite promo vids? I'll start.
> 
> Taker/Trips 1 - 3 (All of their video packages were awesome)
> Austin/Rock
> ...


Austin/HHH @ NWO 01 had a superb package. Actually so did their match at SS 00 too. I'll try and think of a few more. That one is always the one I think of first, probably my favourite.

Edit: Just thought of another one - Team HHH vs Team Orton @ SS 04. Great package with a great song.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I love it when people are able to be self reflective in such an honest way about moments in their life/career and Foley's nailing it here imo. Makes his story that much more real.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HHH & Austin/Taker & Kane at Backlash 2001 also had an excellent promo with great commentary from JR that was copied from the live broadcast. One specific line i remember was "Austin, The Game and McMahon on one vial, nasty, awful page" after Austin and Trips destroye The Rock inside the steel cage after WM17.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

GOATAntics said:


> HHH & Austin/Taker & Kane at Backlash 2001 also had an excellent promo with great commentary from JR that was copied from the live broadcast. One specific line i remember was *"Austin, The Game and McMahon on one vial, nasty, awful page"* after Austin and Trips destroyed The Rock inside the steel cage after WM17.


Yeah I can't recall the exact line, but that's actually one of my favourite pieces of J.R commentary ever, along with the night before at WM17. Superb commentary, you can almost feel legit shock and hate in his voice. The GOAT.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just got the Summerslam 01 DVD. Some thoughts on it?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Other than Austin/Rock II, their WM 19 match, Cena/Punk MITB, all of Taker/Trips and Elimination Chamber '03 are my favourite promo packages.

Top 10 PG Era PPV's?
My start:

No Mercy 2008
Armageddon 2008
No Way Out 2009
Extreme Rules 2011
Money In The Bank 2011
SummerSlam 2011
WM 28
Extreme Rules 2012
TLC 2012


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Full Timers:

Bryan
Henry
Punk
Cesaro
Ziggler
Heyman
Prime Time Players
SHIELD

Part Timers ( Order of who interests me at this point)

Brock
Jericho
Undertaker
Rock
HHH

Got the Foley Doc on the d/l so should watch it tonight.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Just got the Summerslam 01 DVD. Some thoughts on it?


Awesome event. Austin/Angle is especially brilliant.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yeah I can't recall the exact line, but that's actually one of my favourite pieces of J.R commentary ever, along with the night before at WM17. Superb commentary, you can almost feel legit shock and hate in his voice. The GOAT.


Yea, I can't remember the exact words but you could definitely feel the intensity and hatred running out of his mouth. One of JR's greatest lines.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> How hard are these to find?


When the Mid South set arrives I'll try and up a few to youtube for you  .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> When the Mid South set arrives I'll try and up a few to youtube for you  .


:hb WOOLCOCK

You the man.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

My favorite video promos

*Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Judgement Day 2005*





*Stone Cold vs. Kurt Angle - Unforgiven 2001*





*Undertaker vs. Edge - Wrestlemania 24*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching the Foley doc atm :mark:. Just up to his debut as Mankind. Reading all his books I know pretty much everything about his life and career so far so I doubt there will be much new to me, but its great to hear other wrestlers talk about him.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Punk/Cena MITB 2011 video promo was magnificent, definitely the best in recent times. "What? What? What?, I apologize you SON OF A BITCH!!!". However, Sheamus/Show HIAC has to be the worst in recent times.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Foley talking about his issues with Vince on commentary. Some great insight there from Cole too speaking on it. The fuck is with Foley and Disneyland though? This whole bit on the SOCKO vs. COBRA fight in the RUmble. :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

DO I HAVE EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION NOW


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> DO I HAVE EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION NOW


YOU WILL APOLOGIZE AND YOU WILL LIKE IT.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The one for Rock/Cena II was pretty great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AFTER VINCE McMAHON IS DE-DE-DEAD

Awesome stuff. As the PPV itself was.

Speaking of which, for those who missed the question, me says Top 10 PG Era PPV's? (MITB 11, ER 12, WM 28, SSlam 11, NM 08, Armageddon 08, NWO 09, EC 11 and ER 11 for me)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Foley talking about his issues with Vince on commentary. Some great insight there from Cole too speaking on it. The fuck is with Foley and Disneyland though? This whole bit on the SOCKO vs. COBRA fight in the RUmble. :lol


There are 2 things Foley loves more than life itself: Christmas and Disneyland .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Everybody watch this promo, fabulous agression expressed by Cena. (promo starts at 0:11)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Best PPVs of the last few years were MITB11 and ER12 imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> When the Mid South set arrives I'll try and up a few to youtube for you  .


You talking about the one from me? Because I posted that a month ago :|. Thought you'd got it lol.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Great promos for the Streak vs. Career Match at WrestleMania XXVI






=


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> There are 2 things Foley loves more than life itself: Christmas and Disneyland .


Clearly! :lmao this bit where everybody is talking about how cheap he is though. Heyman, Vader, HHH, Show all ragging on him for being a cheapskate. Bit before is about his dress style and his son says he looks homeless.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Best PPVs of the last few years were MITB11 and ER12 imo.


I hope I'm not the only one who believes ER was superior. Two ****3/4 and a ***** Main Event hit the nail for ER imo.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't have them rated that high, as I'm not as fond of Jericho/Punk as most, but indeed Bryan/Sheamus and Cena/BROCK were both awesome matches and MOTYCs.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> Great promos for the Streak vs. Career Match at WrestleMania XXVI
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I fucking LOVE that first one, wish they had used it on the PPV. That song totally makes the whole thing too.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I watched Rock/Austin from Wrestlemania 17 last night. That is my favorite pre match video package of all time. The song timed with the beer toast escalating into the fight gets me pumped every time. ****1/2 for the match by the way.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Agreed on the Streak/Career promo, Great stuff. All the promos from the WWF vs. Alliance feud were pretty good as well, I especially liked the SS 2001 one.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Money In The Bank 2011

SD MITB - *** 3/4
Kelly/Bella Twin - meh
Henry/Show - *
Raw MITB - *** 
Orton/Christian - *** 1/2
Cena/Punk - **** 1/2


Extreme Rules 2012

Orton/Kane FCA - ** 1/2
Ziggler/Clay - 1/4*
Show/Rhodes Table Match - 1/2*
Sheamus/Bryan 2/3 Falls - **** 1/4
Ryback squash - eh
Punk/Jericho Street Fight - *** 3/4
Layla/Bella Twin - DUD
Cena/Brock Extreme Rules - **** 1/2

I'm a little biased because I attended ER last year. We shall see how WWE Payback stacks up against the last two years of WWE PPVs in Chicago. Night Of Champions '10 and Judgment Day '09 were solid shows too that I also attended.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hollywood and other entertainment/media in general can look down on wrestling and WWE all they want, but NOBODY can make video packages quite like WWE. Some absolutely incredible stuff over the years.

Big fan of the one from 02 with Kid Rock's Lonely Road of Faith song for the whole NWO arrival.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Fully agreed the WWE's video editing team is amazing. They can get you to feel pretty much whatever they want you to feel. Just subtle nuances of music timed perfectly with a moment can make a video package amazing.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Your favorite promo vids? I'll start.
> 
> Taker/Trips 1 - 3 (All of their video packages were awesome)
> Austin/Rock
> ...


Brock/Show from Survivor Series 02 was fantastic. UT/HBK for WM 26.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ER 12 
Mitb 11
SS 11-my fav
wm 28


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Just got the Summerslam 01 DVD. Some thoughts on it?


Fantastic show, one of the best Summerslams to date. Nearly the entire undercard hits the *** mark or higher and Austin/Angle is incredible, as everyone has already said.



ATF said:


> Speaking of which, for those who missed the question, me says Top 10 PG Era PPV's? (MITB 11, ER 12, WM 28, SSlam 11, NM 08, Armageddon 08, NWO 09, EC 11 and ER 11 for me)


So glad someone else digs Extreme Rules 2011. Really underrated PPV, total blast from start to finish. Orton/Punk, Rey/Cody, Sheamus/Kofi, Christian/ADR, & Cena/Miz/Morrison are all good stuff.

But... your list is missing a big one. BACKLASH 2009



ATF said:


> I hope I'm not the only one who believes ER was superior. Two ****3/4 and a ***** Main Event hit the nail for ER imo.


Nope, I prefer Extreme Rules to MITB (by a slight margin, but still). Big 3 main events are all ****+

Here's to hoping Payback continues Chicago's HOT streak.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

how about this for discussion name your top 3-5 matches from your favortite superstar (past or present)
I start
hbk:
wm 25
wm 26
wm 19
BB 97
wm 24

hell ill do current :ziggler
br 10
ss 12
punk nov 11
masters superstar 10
rey ss 09


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't think I can even do a top 10 for the full-time roster. Can barely complete a list with the part-timers included. Orton, Cena, Sheamus, Bryan, Mark Henry and yeah, I can't think of anything else. And Bryan is skip material if they have him and Kane wrestle Prime Time Players and squashing them every week.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The greatest combination of video packages, entrances, and overall production for me HAS to be Taker-HHH from Wrestlemania XXVII. They took what was a pretty weak build and using their production values, twisted everything around to tell the story of two old gunslingers heading out to duel with only one being able to walk out. From the use of "In Time" by Mark Collie for the video package, to "For Whom the Bell Tolls", to "Ain't No Grave", that XXVII match has some of the best production wrapped around it that I have ever seen in my entire life. It's example number one of a build being weak but the WWE using their astounding production to make it look awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KOK, for your John Cena project, have you seen the two tag matches before Unforgiven 06? Both are pretty good.

4/9/06 - Edge & Orton & Lita vs Cena & Carlito & Trish
11/9/06 (in MSG) - Edge & Orton & Nitro vs Carlito & Cena & Hardy


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Full-Time Wrestlers? Gonna be tough... hell, I'll exclude Punk since he's now on break to make it tougher on myself (for the record if it's not obvious enough, he'd be number 1), but:

1) Damien Sandow
2) Daniel Bryan
3-4-5) The Shield
6) Mark Henry
7) Wade Barrett
8) Dolph Ziggler
9) Randy Orton
10) Ryback


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> DO I HAVE EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION NOW


Has to be the best video package I've ever witnessed. Goosebumps.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah the promo for that match is so awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> KOK, for your John Cena project, have you seen the two tag matches before Unforgiven 06? Both are pretty good.
> 
> 4/9/06 - Edge & Orton & Lita vs Cena & Carlito & Trish
> 11/9/06 (in MSG) - Edge & Orton & Nitro vs Carlito & Cena & Hardy


Haven't seen either yet, still at the 2012 tags and working my way down. I'm enjoying the fact that I have such a long project to engage in so that there's a decent payoff in the end when it comes to constructing a top 100 CENA matches list, as well as his top 10 worst matches, best opponents, etc.

MY LAST EXAM IS TOMORROW, meaning that I get to watch wrestling basically all day when I'm not getting drunk and high out of my mind. YEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not taking anything away from anyone's WM27 Review but - i found this review pretty damn special and makes me even more so make me want to watch the Taker/HHH match again to make sure it is indeed this fucking EPIC:

[Review HERE


----------



## Meki (Dec 25, 2011)

Video package for Cena/Miz was also surprisinhly good considering the feud itself was trash.

Sent from my GT-S7500 using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone else remember a Cena tag with Trish? Who was it against? It was probably in '09 I think.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) @ meki.

I loved Miz's portion, tbhayley.

Cena & Trish teamed vs Santino & Beth in late '08. It was on botchamania that Cena apparently was rather excited during the match. Take the trashy joke for what it is worth. I figured someone might have mentioned it or posted it themselves.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Top 10 least favorite (full timers) :
> 
> Alberto Del Rio
> Kofi Kingston
> ...


Top 10 least favorites for me:

Santino Marella
Zack Ryder
Brodus Clay
Tensai 
Kofi Kingston
The Great Khali
The Miz
Jack Swagger
Daniel Bryan
Alberto Del Rio



ATF said:


> I hope I'm not the only one who believes ER was superior. Two ****3/4 and a ***** Main Event hit the nail for ER imo.


You're not obviously, but your ratings are very high. 

My ratings for Extreme Rules:

Bryan/Sheamus ******
Punk/Jericho ******
Cena/Lesnar *****1/2*



Choke2Death said:


> I don't think I can even do a top 10 for the full-time roster. Can barely complete a list with the part-timers included. Orton, Cena, Sheamus, Bryan, Mark Henry and yeah, I can't think of anything else. And Bryan is skip material if they have him and Kane wrestle Prime Time Players and squashing them every week.


I can't either. Only a few guys I tune for. 

Ziggler, Punk, Sandow and The Shield are the only guys I tune for, then there's guys like Jericho and Barrett that I can enjoy, but that doesn't even make 10.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have less than 70 matches left to watch on my Cena project at the moment believe it or not, holy shit.

I HAVE OVER 400 JOHN CENA MATCHES WATCHED SINCE LATE FEBRUARY. WHAT. THE. FUCK.

& that Trish tag was vs Beth/Santino .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^^ have your of you ratings for any top cena match changed ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Extreme Rules 2012 is a GOAT PPV for sure. Been pimping it out since it aired. 

Wow, don't recall Beth and Santino at all in that match. I don't recall the match at all actually. I'm guessing it was just a decent TV match but I would love to see it just for the pure comedy gold that was heel Santino.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Not taking anything away from anyone's WM27 Review but - i found this review pretty damn special and makes me even more so make me want to watch the Taker/HHH match again to make sure it is indeed this fucking EPIC:
> 
> [Review HERE


Yeah, that's a pretty great review. I wonder why that match is so polarizing. It's a wonderful match. 

I've also read countless reviews for that match and can't for the life of me undertand why nobody seems to mention HHH's concern for Taker's health when Taker plops to the floor off the apron. Triple H was heading up the ramp but saw him fall off the apron and doubled back to check on him. I think that was amazing storytelling, and set up the rematch almost instantly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Top 10 least favorites for me:
> 
> Santino Marella
> Zack Ryder
> ...


:|


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Not taking anything away from anyone's WM27 Review but - i found this review pretty damn special and makes me even more so make me want to watch the Taker/HHH match again to make sure it is indeed this fucking EPIC:
> 
> [Review HERE


That is a great review, and that guy sums up exactly why I rate that match so highly.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

*Triple H vs. The Undertaker Wrestlemania 27 - No Holds Barred*

Good match but heavily over-rated. I have it at ***1/2 ... the match was missing a much needed beginning and middle which really hurt it imo. They went out there wrestling the latter part of a match and it didn't come of well, 2 minutes into the match and you had triple h spearing taker into the cole mine, fast forward to the around 5-6 minute mark and you have some huge spots and obviously that spinebuster through the announce table. The match was slow and plodding a lot of the time and consisted of taker and trips just laying on the mat for what seemed like an eternity. It's nowhere near HBK/TAKER from WM 25 or 26, the story telling, actual wrestling, and psychology was much better than the encounter between hhh and taker at WM 27. Not saying it was a bad match, because it wasn't; it was actually pretty good but it's not as "amazing" as some people make it out to be. Also the pedigree, rest, pedigree, rest, pedigree finisher fest bored the hell out of me. I just guess I enjoy matches that are a bit faster paced and consist of interesting sequences, counters and good pacing which this match was heavily lacking in my eyes. It wasn't as "brutal" as people make it out to be either. On a positive note it did have some good story telling, spots, moments and near falls but it was lacking that "spark" which makes a match an all time classic. WM 14,17,18,23,24,25,26,28 and 29 are all better streak matches but that's just my take on things. It's like a movie needs a good beginning and middle to enhance the overall quality of it and without a good beginning and middle a movie can look pretty shitty even if the ending was to be pretty fucking good. Sorry if that's not the best analogy though haha. Awesome review regardless, loved reading it!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

people over analyze hhh/taker 27 too much, it s a great match, you wont find better storytelling either ****3/4 in my book


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That review was bossy. I don't reciprocate the love, but the passion put forth is grand. You can't help but appreciate the time and effort taken. I'd do the same for a match I truly loved all aspects of.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The MITB 11 promo was great but nobody talks about the awesome promo for the Summerslam match between them with the voice over giving a really cool recap type of thing of the whole story.






On Taker/Trips 27, you aren't going to find many better examples of 2 guys telling a story with their expressions and body language. It was much more subtle than the 28 match but played off both the 25/26 matches perfectly and also set up the 28 match perfectly. From the entrances like KOK pointed out before the match and the choice of music for each guy right up to the end with HHH checking on Taker like TLK said when it was all over. Awesome stuff. I also love the fact that HHH came out throwing bombs right from the beginning because he knew that simply trying to 'wrestle' Taker wasn't going to be enough to get the job done. He saw his best friend try it twice and fail. He wanted to go in and be the heartless bastard he was in the past but throughout the match he let his emotions get the better of him and felt sympathy for the man he was trying to put down. Taker sold his desperation like the GOAT he is and it's just a fantastic story to watch unfold. Fucking hell I fluctuate on this thing every time it gets discussed lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In regards to music copyright and all that crap, if WWE used Cash's song at WM27 live but couldn't put it on the DVD 3 months later, is it a seperate licencing agreement ir can you use what you like live.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've significantly knocked down a few of his overrated contests for sure, alot of the higher profile matches he has sometimes get a little too much credit. I'll say this about Cena ; he can really coast through some fucking matches and be lazy as fuck sometimes, but he never lets it become a consistent habit. What I've seen from his tags though is that they're usually ALWAYS good if he's the FIP to a good heel control segment, which differs from his normal singles FIP performances for sure. It's weird because if you look at Cena's work after his return @ Survivor Series 2008 all the way up to his feud with Miz at the Bash of all people, he's extremely consistent throughout that entire time period. Granted, some may not like the Big Show matches from that year, but I'll fight a motherfucker who doesn't love the SD match from early 2009 (too lazy to open up my DOC and see the date) or the Judgment Day 2009 match either (well, alot of people don't like that one) as he as perhaps the apex of his ability to construct a great babyface comeback week in and week out.

I've picked up on the little things that Cena does with his matches quite well by now (if I haven't figured it out after 400 matches then God help me), such as if he's working with an inexperienced RAW talent like Chris Masters in 2005, he'll usually work a little stiffer to ignite some tension and make things a little better with his matches. I've went back and dug up so many matches that he has at ***+ that I might have to go over 100 to get them all in there. There's going to be more TV matches on this for sure, as the latter half of the list is probably going to be fucking LITTERED with them. With around 70 matches left to go though I can tell you this ; there's THREE TV matches in the top 10 as of now and I really don't see how that can change at this point.

EDIT: I was SO FUCKING PISSED when I got the Wrestlemania XXVII DVD as a gift and "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (my favorite entrance of all time, fucking insane considering how recent it is) was knocked off and replaced by some shitty cover version that sounds nothing like it. Felt like deducting a star just for that as that entrance NEEDS to be seen, it was just so perfect because you heard the "DONG" and everybody thought it was going to be Taker until the song kicked in. Trips appearing donning the fucking SKULL KING outfit was awesome as well.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Top ten current WWE: (Excluding punk )

1. Daniel Bryan - I think with whatever he does so while I want more from him and I know he can do more, he'll get his chance.
2. Dolph Ziggler- He needs to turn face or flesh his gimmick out some more to connect with the crowd better but his in ring is outstanding.
3-6. The Shield - Could be 1,2,3 actually so excited for their future.
7. Mark Henry - Never been better, if he was like this five years ago, he'd be in my top ten faves of all time no lie. He's kinda been slowed down creatively though..

8. Damien Sandow - This guys has a great future as well but WWE is wasting him.
9. Fandango- work that gimmick!

10. Sheamus- I guess I'll go with him here cause he's a work horse in the ring but his gimmick is so Irish Cena it annoys the fuck out of me..

damn that was tough.. I have like 3-4 not on this list that would be if they were healthly and not done (Mysterio) Guys that are being wasted (rhodes) Or guys that used to make me care (Barrett, orton. Show)

Then of course there is Cena who I've thrown towel in.

The rest I don't really care about.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I really want to watch Taker/HHH WM27 again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

wait, wait, Undertaker's entrance at WM 27 is edited on the DVD? Please don't tell me this is true.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Good thing I have it recorded live :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got it on DVD via live recording too. :hb


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think Cena's best babyface comeback is his match with Umaga from NYR '07.

What Cena does is that he protects himself. And when I say that, I don't mean in terms of booking. I mean his physical health. The guy has already had major surgeries through his career, the last thing he should be doing is "stealing the show" every Monday on RAW. I don't discredit Cena at all for "coasting" through his matches. Especially when it's some 5 minute crap against Darren Young on RAW. Work smart, not hard. 

Cena, 9 out of 10 times, delivers in the big time matches and that's what truly matters to me. Not everyone is like Punker or Jericho who would go out here no matter if it is in front of 50, 5000 or 50,000 people and deliver like they do. Cena plays it safe. He knows that he is a key player in the WWE and the last thing he should be doing is burning himself out taking unnecessary bumps.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Both For Whom The Bell Tolls and Ain't No Grave aren't on the DVD version which is fucking SHIT since they're both so important to the story of the match. Stupid copyrights. 

Trips 27 and Taker 29 have to be 2 of the GOAT entrances ever though. Both of them are just :mark:.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's why I love Cena/Punk from RAW earlier this year so much ; it was essentially Cena and Punk giving Vince a big FUCK YOU or not letting them do that in the main event of Wrestlemania (look at the garbage that we got instead, pathetic). Cena letting Punk FUCKING PILEDRIVE HIM and Cena performing a Hurricarana is a perfect indicator of this mentality that they brought. They REALLY wrestled that match as if it was going to be their fucking last, and what happened come Wrestlemania?

The main event sucked. BALLS.

EDIT: Trip's Mania XXII entrance is so fucking awesome, the debut of the "King of Kings" song was just :mark:. I really love it when he does that, when he has a different song like King of Kings play until THE GAME kicks in and you know he means fucking business. Triple H at his best for sure, one of the reasons I fucking adore the guy so much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Good thing I have it recorded live :hb





HayleySabin said:


> Got it on DVD via live recording too. :hb


Damn you two  im going to have to get the PPV version soon....


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Pretty sure Cena didn't give a crap who he wrestled so long as he walked out with the title.

:cena2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Will we ever see Punk vs Cena main event Mania?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Both For Whom The Bell Tolls and Ain't No Grave aren't on the DVD version which is fucking SHIT since they're both so important to the story of the match. Stupid copyrights.


ugh.

Makes me sick.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> That review was bossy. I don't reciprocate the love, but the passion put forth is grand. You can't help but appreciate the time and effort taken. I'd do the same for a match I truly loved all aspects of.


I clearly stated that the review was AWESOME and that I LOVED reading it and appreciated the time and effort put into it. I don't get how having an opposing opinion on a match can in anyway be bossy at all? Hell having various opinions on a subject is what makes wrestling so interesting to discuss! I think that both negative and positive reviews of a match should be appreciated if the time is put into it and their reasons to like or dislike a match are backed up. Sorry If I came across as "bossy", I just wanted to give my take on the match and explain why I felt the way I did. I guess if stating your opinion is bossy then maybe I am. In fact I'm kind of annoyed you simply called my review "bossy" after I bothered explaining my thoughts on the match and why I gave it 3 1/2 stars. Oh well


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> That's why I love Cena/Punk from RAW earlier this year so much ; it was essentially Cena and Punk giving Vince a big FUCK YOU or not letting them do that in the main event of Wrestlemania (look at the garbage that we got instead, pathetic). Cena letting Punk FUCKING PILEDRIVE HIM and Cena performing a Hurricarana is a perfect indicator of this mentality that they brought. They REALLY wrestled that match as if it was going to be their fucking last, and what happened come Wrestlemania?
> 
> The main event sucked. BALLS.


I didn't really get that vibe from the match at all. It was just the case of Punk and Cena doing what they do best. I don't think they were taking any jabs at management. I mean, now that you've put that thought into my head it makes all the damn sense in the world but still, I don't think they were trying to send any messages. Also, Cena did his botchacarana at TLC against Ziggler anyway.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm with KoK on HHH's WM22 entrance. Probably my favorite entrance ever. His WM27 is close, though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker's entrance at Wrestlemania 29 is the GOAT entrance for me. Nothing comes close, even some of his other awesome entrances or Punk's amazing entrance from right before that. And I got to witness it live! 

Taker/HHH WM27 is a case of either loving the storytelling, or disliking the in-ring work to determine your rating. I don't get how it's anywhere near Taker's matches with HBK, Punk, Edge, Batista, Kane I, Flair, and HHH III, but more power to you if you really liked it I guess.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Maybe. Punk's retirement match in 3-4 years (which will probably happen no doubt) will probably be against John Boy at Mania, so why not?

If the buyrates for XXIX are shitty, the WWE has nobody to blame but their own stupid fucking booking. As much as I hate The Rock and believe that he should never wrestle again, if the buys aren't as good it's certainly not his fault whatsoever. I mean, Wrestlemania is usually the most predictable event of the year, but it certainly isn't THAT predictable FFS.

You HAVE to believe that Punk wanted that main event spot this year and probably won't stop being the best there is until he gets it. No doubt in my mind that he'll main event the big show, he might just have to wait one or two years before he can actually go out and do it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> ugh.
> 
> Makes me sick.


I too have a live copy of it saved but it's nowhere near the quality of the blu-ray version which sucks. 

And I'm just working my way through this review here and wow. Always great to see somebody manifest their passion in a well thought out and beautifully written piece like that. Somebody needs to invite him to this thread.

EDIT - Taker's entrance at 29 legit made me just stop and stare at the TV in awe. I was really looking forward to Living Colour performing live and it was awesome no doubt but that Taker entrance was just something else. What an image.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Agree with KOK. WM 29 was the most predictable event that I have seen IMO. Add to the fact that the build up to WM was poor so that was another reason why the buyrates could be shit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I've significantly knocked down a few of his overrated contests for sure, alot of the higher profile matches he has sometimes get a little too much credit. I'll say this about Cena ; he can really coast through some fucking matches and be lazy as fuck sometimes, but he never lets it become a consistent habit. What I've seen from his tags though is that they're usually ALWAYS good if he's the FIP to a good heel control segment, which differs from his normal singles FIP performances for sure. It's weird because if you look at Cena's work after his return @ Survivor Series 2008 all the way up to his feud with Miz at the Bash of all people, he's extremely consistent throughout that entire time period. Granted, some may not like the Big Show matches from that year, but I'll fight a motherfucker who doesn't love the SD match from early 2009 (too lazy to open up my DOC and see the date) or the Judgment Day 2009 match either (well, alot of people don't like that one) as he as perhaps the apex of his ability to construct a great babyface comeback week in and week out.
> 
> I've picked up on the little things that Cena does with his matches quite well by now (if I haven't figured it out after 400 matches then God help me), such as if he's working with an inexperienced RAW talent like Chris Masters in 2005, he'll usually work a little stiffer to ignite some tension and make things a little better with his matches. I've went back and dug up so many matches that he has at ***+ that I might have to go over 100 to get them all in there. There's going to be more TV matches on this for sure, as the latter half of the list is probably going to be fucking LITTERED with them. With around 70 matches left to go though I can tell you this ; there's THREE TV matches in the top 10 as of now and I really don't see how that can change at this point.
> 
> EDIT: I was SO FUCKING PISSED when I got the Wrestlemania XXVII DVD as a gift and "For Whom the Bell Tolls" (my favorite entrance of all time, fucking insane considering how recent it is) was knocked off and replaced by some shitty cover version that sounds nothing like it. Felt like deducting a star just for that as that entrance NEEDS to be seen, it was just so perfect because you heard the "DONG" and everybody thought it was going to be Taker until the song kicked in. Trips appearing donning the fucking SKULL KING outfit was awesome as well.


good stuff, I loved to hear you top 10 for him once you done with the project


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The current year's Wrestlemania is always "the most predictable" and "worst" since the previous year's.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Probably the most poorly orchestrated big show I've ever seen. The timing issues, the lack of backstage segments, the lazy booking, EVERYTHING just fucking screamed "we don't give a fuck, Rock and Brock are big enough draws that we don't have to be creative". The Rock mentioned in an interview a few months ago that they knew the main event of XXIX was going to be Rock-Cena since mid 2010 when they planned the whole 2 year feud between Rock and Cena in the first place. I HATE that they did this because it essentially put their booking in a cage for three fucking years, and I really shouldn't blame Rock for this, but his scarce schedule is kind of the reason why it worked out this way so fuck him AND Vince.

I'm not saying that they should go out and book on the fly (which they do with everything besides the main event scene anyways), but at least let the guys go out and try to get over to really EARN their spot, something that's impossible with this multiple year booking. Makes me think whether they would have completely fucked up the summer of Punk had this entire "ROCK-CENA" plan never happened with the intent of having 2 matches and THREE WRESTLEMANIAS dedicated to the two of them.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> The current year's Wrestlemania is always "the most predictable" and "worst" since the previous year's.


nah 
punk/y2j,cena/rock, kane/orton were all a swerve except for punk wining but it could have going the other with y2j still looking strong


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't think KOK likes Rock very much.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I don't think KOK likes Rock very much.


 He loves him :rock

And WM 28 wasn't that predictable. At least the main event was unpredictable and unique considering it happened for the very first time. Of course looking back at it now, I can understand why they booked ROCK to win. In front of his home crowd and the old and non-wrestling fans alike bought WM 28 to see Rock wrestle and it would have dissappointed them to see if lose in his first return match (singles). It was a great business decision in terms of making money and sending the fans home happy as they saw their hometown boy Rock win the main event. It would have been better if Cena had won and had the torch passed to him because that would have meant there would no point of a rematch at Wrestlemania 29 but oh well.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think the day KOK praises The Rock is the day of the apocalypse. 

:rock2


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Agreed with sharkboy. Wrestlemania's supposed to be this unpredictable, exciting event where anything is possible. Just blows how this years mania was the exact opposite of that. It hardly had me excited or emotionally invested which sucks because it's meant to be the BIGGEST wrestling show of the year.

On a side note top 10 WWE/F matches of all time in your opinion guys?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This year's Mania was so underwhelming. Only match that delivered was Taker vs Punk.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I don't think KOK likes Rock very much.


You THINK KOK doesn't like Rock very much, I KNOW KOK doesn't like Rock very much. :rock

Edit: Top 10 WWE Matches of all time? Well...

(*****)
1) Taker/HBK WM25
2) Bret/Austin WM13
(****3/4)
3) Taker/HBK BB 97
4) Taker/Angle NWO 2006
5) Benoit/Angle RR 2003
6) Taker/Lesnar NM 2002
7) Foley/HHH RR 2000
8) Austin/Angle SS 2001
9) Taker/Angle SD Sept 2003
10) Bret/Owen WM10


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

But I bumped into Rock yesterday on the red carpet and he told me he doesn't like KOK very much either so it's all good. 

:rock4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I wouldn't dislike Rock NEARLY as much (okay, yes I would) if they had to book him as they went instead of tying up three Wrestlemania main events in a row with him, giving him the worst WWE Championship Reign EVER, and essentially being the reason that somebody like a CM Punk (despite having a higher spike in popularity and ascension to the top than anybody in the last decade) couldn't be the true FOCUS of the company. Cena's not the issue as he's always been there and things have been fine, but when Rock shows up with his awful schedule and everything starts to revolve around whether or not he's shooting a movie or doing press in Taiwan for GI Tooth Fairy Fast Five 8 (or whatever other shitty movie he's making) this week, it kind of pisses me off.

If he was coming back and actually putting on decent matches or promos, I actually wouldn't give a fuck TBH.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

You guys are complaining about how WWE basically said "fuck you guys, we got Brock and Rock and that's enough to make us money", yet here you all were earlier today talking about shit like Punk/Brock and Brock/Taker for WM XXX and XXXI. 

Unless WWE stops relying on part timers to part time and pick up the slack, shit would never get any better.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KOK's just mad his dream match of :rock4 vs. :ryback for the WWE Title didn't happen at the rumble.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I wouldn't dislike Rock NEARLY as much (okay, yes I would) if they had to book him as they went instead of tying up three Wrestlemania main events in a row with him, giving him the worst WWE Championship Reign EVER, and *essentially being the reason that somebody like a CM Punk* (despite having a higher spike in popularity and ascension to the top than anybody in the last decade) *couldn't be the true FOCUS of the company.* Cena's not the issue as he's always been there and things have been fine, but when Rock shows up with his awful schedule and everything starts to revolve around whether or not he's shooting a movie or doing press in Taiwan for GI Tooth Fairy Fast Five 8 (or whatever other shitty movie he's making) this week, it kind of pisses me off.
> 
> If he was coming back and actually putting on decent matches or promos, I actually wouldn't give a fuck TBH.


Okay, I'm officially convinced that ROCK is an angel sent from the heavens to save my poor soul from suffering the bold part. :rock

For that, THANK YOU ROCK!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Think of it this way. If ROCK left after WM 28 then Punk wouldn't have got a 434 day reign. :cena3

That long title reign was an excuse for the ROCK - Cena rematch to happen.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Taker/Lesnar at WM29 would've made it a must buy for me, but since we got the rematches Taker/Cena has to happen next year.
Taker/Lesnar at WM30 would leave the possibility open to have Rock/Cena 3 and that REALLY can't happen.

*WM30*
Cena/Taker
Punk/Lesnar 
I know Lesnar/Rock is more likely to happen, buying for Cena/Taker so i wouldn't be that bummed.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> :|


As hard as it may seem to believe, due to everyone loving him on here, I'm not a fan of Daniel Bryan. I never have been. My dislike for him is mainly for his character which I don't like, whether it's his annoying World Champion character chanting ''YES'' from early 2012, or the lame comedy act he's doing now. I just don't like it. I never really like comedy in wrestling (there are a few exceptions like Edge and Christian, early Kurt Angle and DX) and that's why I don't like what he's doing now, same reason why I've always disliked someone like Santino. 

Bryan's a good wrestler though, and when he brings it on big PPV matches, and when WWE's not restricting his moveset, he can really have a great match. I always give credit for his in-ring talents, for example Punk/Bryan from Over The Limit was my MOTY for most of the year, and I would always praise that match. Eventually The Shield vs Ryback and Hell No became my new MOTY, but guess what, that also involved Bryan. The average TV match from Bryan these days isn't anything special though, being stuck in a tag team with Kane and WWE restricted him to a few moves and those comedy kicks doesn't help. Team Hell No has definitely run it's course at this point, and it would better for Bryan to go solo at this point, at least his matches might be more interesting...

His mic work isn't anything special. And with his awful character I find it hard to care for anything he says. 

Overall I think Bryan's a perfect example of a overrated indy talent. 99% of this forum seem to love Bryan, like him, or don't mind him, and 1% actually dislike him. It speaks volumes when I can only name two people who don't like him on this forum, and that's me and KO Bossy. Bryan proving _by far_ why he's the biggest IWC darling on this forum. Some people say Ziggler's the biggest IWC darling, but I see many people dislike Ziggler, you can find lots of negative posts on Ziggler, but you rarely ever see anyone say anything negative about Daniel Bryan because he's the great Bryan Danielson that worked on the ~INDES~  And when you say anything negative about Bryan you get responses from the most over-protective, blind marking, sheep mentality fans I've ever seen. I know. I've had to deal with how annoying the majority of Bryan fans are on here since I've been on this forum, thankfully you'll never find those sort of posters in here because this thread is mainly made up of intelligent posters who can have a proper debate, unlike your average WWE section poster who can't accept that people have different opinions and favorites, and get all butthurt when you make the slightest criticism of someone like Daniel Bryan. I sort of understand why Choke2death had such a problem with Punk, with one of the reasons he listed being that the majority of his marks were so annoying, and that's true, a lot of Punk marks are annoying, but a lot of Bryan ones are too, and in my opinion, Bryan marks are worse. I don't dislike Bryan nearly as much as I used to, but my god, this forum when Bryan was World Champion was the worst I've ever experienced, so much annoying marks, worshiping him like he was some kind of god, and coming at you like a army if you said anything critical of him. It was insane. I never want to see Bryan as World Champion again for that reason alone, never mind the fact I think he should be nothing more than a midcarder at best. 

The bland Daniel Bryan of 2010/2011 was the best Daniel Bryan. You know, before he had an annoying character that totally didn't suit him, before he got lots of promo time. The Bryan of 2010/2011 was just a wrestler, not this sports entertainer that doesn't work for him. The old Bryan would go out and wrestle a good match most weeks, he wouldn't bring down his matches with lame comedy antics, and he wasn't as restricted in the ring then. The midcard role suited Bryan perfectly, because he could showcase he's only real good quality, that being his wrestling ability in good bouts with the likes of Ziggler, Ted DiBiase, and hell, Bryan even got good matches out of The Miz. I never minded that Daniel Bryan.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I WANT THE OLD DANIEL BRYAN! :bryan :vince

... sorry Nostalgia. Had to write that when I saw "old Bryan". I know what you're talking about, though I am a fan of Bryan today (obviously as he's my second favorite wrestler on the roster currently).


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The only reason I like Bryan's character is because he's good at playing it. But damn when I look back at D-Bryan matches from 2010 and 2011 when he first came it's hard to believe I used to mark for that guy lol. So vanilla. Since when the fuck do I mark for vanilla midgets? It's really amazing to see how far Bryan has come. 

What's funny though is that when I look at his indie work I don't see a vanilla midget. But you put him on the big stage with the flashly lights and it's like, damn...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watched Danielson/KENTA from Glory By Honor 5 at the behest of Cody and I must say it was pretty fucking awesome. Wish they'd let him be like that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I give you serious props for writing all that out Nostalgia and I can understand all the dislike towards his character and comedy antics he's forced to use, but HOLY SHIT. Overrated indy talent? Woah buddy. Serious question, have you seen the guy ever wrestle outside of the WWE?

Are there really people in this thread who are unaware of 'The American Dragon' Bryan Danielson and all his glory wrestled all over the world?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just for fun my top ten least favorite wrestlers of alll time (in no particular order).

The Miz
Ric Flair
Alberto Del Rio
Bret Hart
The Great Khali
Hulk Hogan
Jeff Hardy
Colt Cabana
Muhammad Hassan

For ten I am giving a three way tie for Vickie Guerrero, Hornswoggle and Michael Cole who despite not technically being wrestlers are despised so much they can't be left off.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The thing I liked about Bryan's indy work (compared to other indy guys) is that he puts some effort (A LOT) into selling, and working character into his matches. I mean, he did do what I refer to as "typical indy bullshit" as well such as the dueling boots, this move into that one into that one, but for the most part the guy really was one of the best on the indies for his time. And btw, the "typical indy bullshit" isn't really a knock on him it's just one of those things that's not my taste in wrestling. I've kinda learn to accept as time went on. I get that wrestling has evolved to the point where chain wrestling and mixing MMA into it is now 'the style'


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Top 10 matches of the PG era? Can simply just list the greatest matches of the PG era instead if you wish


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HWRP said:


> Top 10 matches of the PG era? Can simply just list the greatest matches of the PG era instead if you wish


Hmmm this seems like a fun list to make. But I'm too lazy to put together such a list but for sure these matches would be on it:

Edge/Taker Summerslam '08
HBK/Taker WM 25
Punk/Cena MITB
Punk/Cena RAW 2013
Lesnar/Cena ER 2012


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

I love bryan he's great at his character and always has solid matches even not given much time and being the most restricted wrestler in the company. But punk is the iwcs biggest darling the amount of head he receives on here is ridiculous. Too me cesaro is the most overrated though. Bryan, ounk and Ziggler are at least worthy of being loved.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Hmmm this seems like a fun list to make. But I'm too lazy to put together such a list but for sure these matches would be on it:
> 
> Edge/Taker Summerslam '08
> HBK/Taker WM 25
> ...


Interesting that you'd put Punk/Cena from Raw this year on that list. What star rating do you give that?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Interesting that you'd put Punk/Cena from Raw this year on that list. What star rating do you give that?


Probably about ****


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

Dark Church said:


> Just for fun my top ten least favorite wrestlers of alll time (in no particular order).
> 
> The Miz
> Ric Flair
> ...


I know everybody has there own likes and dislikes but The Great Khali? are you serious? How in the hell can Great Khali make a top ten list of anything? I'd love to hear you give me your thoughts on why Khali is a good performer.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> I love bryan he's great at his character and always has solid matches even not given much time and being the most restricted wrestler in the company. But punk is the iwcs biggest darling the amount of head he receives on here is ridiculous. Too me cesaro is the most overrated though. Bryan, ounk and Ziggler are at least worthy of being loved.


At one point I wasn't a Cesaro fan at all but after his match with Ryback I kind of took a liking to him. I agree that he is overrated by the iwc (I just don't see him as WHC material at ALL!) For Christ's sake I always saw WHC potential in Ziggler from the get go. So yeah, I don't think his position on the card or current gimmick has anything to do with it. Nonetheless, he's a solid hand to have.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

JBL_Wrestling_God said:


> I know everybody has there own likes and dislikes but The Great Khali? are you serious? How in the hell can Great Khali make a top ten list of anything? I'd love to hear you give me your thoughts on why Khali is a good performer.


Well that is his top ten *least* favourite wrestlers, so it's understandable. I missed the 'least' when I first looked at it too, my initial reaction was pretty much :bosh


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

JBL_Wrestling_God said:


> I know everybody has there own likes and dislikes but The Great Khali? are you serious? How in the hell can Great Khali make a top ten list of anything? I'd love to hear you give me your thoughts on why Khali is a good performer.


fpalm


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

JBL_Wrestling_God said:


> I know everybody has there own likes and dislikes but The Great Khali? are you serious? How in the hell can Great Khali make a top ten list of anything? I'd love to hear you give me your thoughts on why Khali is a good performer.


Those are my least favorite wrestlers. Khali is a steaming pile of crap. He is actually one of the only guys on the list based on him being an awful wrestler.


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

Whoops. I apolgize about that. It threw me off guard because legends like Bret Hart and Ric Flair were on the list. Makes more sense now I guess.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Some of my favorite matches of the PG era:

Brock/Cena ER
Taker/Edge SS 08
Punk/Cena MiTB
Punk/Taker WM 29
HHH/Taker WM 28
HBK/Taker WM 25 and 26
Daniel Bryan vs. Punk OTL 12
Jericho/HBK ladder match (not sure if pg era or not)
Cena/Edge last man standing match
Punk/Cena raw (before mania 29)
Sheamus/Big Show Hell in a cell 12
Ryback and hell no vs. The shield TLC 2012
Hardy/Punk Ladder match from summerslam
Orton/Christian series of matches
Punk/Henry from raw

There's probably more but this is all I can think of right now


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HWRP said:


> Top 10 matches of the PG era? Can simply just list the greatest matches of the PG era instead if you wish


1) Taker/HBK WM25
2) Punk/Bryan OTL 2012
3) Taker/HBK WM26
4) Taker/Punk WM29
5) Taker/Edge SS 2008
6) Shield/Team Hell No and Ryback TLC 2012
7) HBK/Jericho NM 2008
8) Punk/Cena MITB 2011
9) Christian/Swagger ECW Feb 2009
10) Lesnar/Cena ER 2012


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*top 10 WWEpg matches*

10.Punk/Bryan (OverTheLimit '12)
9.Christian/Orton (OverTheLimit '11)
8.Punk/Mysterio (CapitolPunishment '11)
7.Cena/Edge (LMS Backlash'09)
6.Edge/Hardy (Ladder Match ER'09)
5.Lesnar/Cena (ER'12)
4. HHH/Taker (WM28)
3.Michaels/Taker (WM25)
2.Punk/Cena (MITB'11)
1.Michaels/Taker (WM26)

I feel the pg era started after WM25.

This is the first list ive ever done, very interesting thing to do.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I give you serious props for writing all that out Nostalgia and I can understand all the dislike towards his character and comedy antics he's forced to use, but HOLY SHIT. Overrated indy talent? Woah buddy. Serious question, have you seen the guy ever wrestle outside of the WWE?
> 
> Are there really people in this thread who are unaware of 'The American Dragon' Bryan Danielson and all his glory wrestled all over the world?


What I mean by ''overrated indy talent'' is people overrate him on this forum just because he came from the indes - and they think he's the best because Bryan Danielson was the god on the independents, and they think he's entitled to a lot just because he was a big deal in indy scene, when WWE is much different. To succeed in the WWE it's about being the best entertainer, or best money drawer, or the best larger-than-life attraction, not the best wrestler. It's never been about who's the best wrestler. It's about the spectacle, the characters, the storylines, not who can put on the best 20 minute technical classic.

A few times when I've criticized Bryan in the past, someone who post a link to one of his ROH matches or something and they'll say: ''watch this and you'll understand why Daniel Bryan is so good'' and I don't even need to watch it, because what you did in ROH in front of 50 people doesn't matter, the Daniel Bryan you saw on the independents booked like a top guy and putting on 30 minute classics with everyone isn't the Daniel Bryan you'll ever see in the WWE, so what's the point of even showing those videos to me? He'll never be that guy in the WWE, what he was capable of in ROH is irrelevant because now he's on the biggest stage that's all that matters, it's about what Daniel Bryan can show us in the WWE that's important, not what he's done in minor league promotions. 

Others like Cesaro and Ambrose get this treatment too. Overrated, overhyped because they came from the indes and won so many people over with their work on there, but it's not until they do something actually relevant and meaningful in the WWE that it will matter. I've been digging Ambrose's work in The Shield so far, but I can't wait until Ambrose goes solo so we can truly see if he can live up to all the crazy hype his marks have given him, but I don't he will. Because like Daniel Bryan, just because you were this awesome character on the indes doesn't mean you'll be that in the WWE, just because you wrestled these ***** classics on ROH, or in Ambrose's case, you gave us great promos and character portrayal, doesn't mean you will in the WWE. 

WWE water your character down, or completely change it, they change your name sometimes, they restrict your moveset, they script your promos, they tell you what they want you to be. Kassius Ohno is completely different to what Chris Hero was on the indy scene. And these indy talents honestly can't live up to the hype their many loyal fans make for them, because you honestly are deluded if you think a wrestler is going to be so good in the WWE, and so successful, just because they were in the minor league promotions in front of a crowd of 50 people.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KANE's best matches? Guy's been there since 1997, and hasn't taken too much time off, right?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

As someone who's watched his indy favorites move to the big leagues, I've never liked the "watch his past work" replies people gave on a newly signed wrestler.
So many things go into how they're used in a company, that expecting a wrestler to be used the same way in a different company is ridiculous.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

@Nolstagia, why does fanboyism affect your opinion, when the wrestler in question isn't the one who is going around glorifying himself? If you watched his work, in ROH, and compared to it to today, you'd see he has changed leaps and bounds as a performer and worker, to a completely different person, who most of the 'Universe' adore. Your clouded judgement isn't extremely well thought through, to the degree you probably hoped for.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Kane's best match is against Taker at Wrestlemania 14 imo... at least singles matches. The best match I feel he's been a part of was the Shield match at TLC 2012.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Here's to anyone that wants to watch the new Mick Foley documentary without having to download it. The site uploaded the full doc, all the matches, promos and extras in beautiful high definition onto dailymotion. So you're essentially getting to watch the full DVD with all the discs without having to worry about lag, lowered quality or space being taken up. Here's the link

http://watchwrestling.net/watch-wwe-for-all-mankind-the-life-and-career-of-mick-foley-2013-dvd/

No need to thank me  Have a nice day!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> What I mean by ''overrated indy talent'' is people overrate him on this forum just because he came from the indes - and they think he's the best because Bryan Danielson was the god on the independents, and they think he's entitled to a lot just because he was a big deal in indy scene, when WWE is much different. To succeed in the WWE it's about being the best entertainer, or best money drawer, or the best larger-than-life attraction, not the best wrestler. It's never been about who's the best wrestler. It's about the spectacle, the characters, the storylines, not who can put on the best 20 minute technical classic.
> 
> A few times when I've criticized Bryan in the past, someone who post a link to one of his ROH matches or something and they'll say: ''watch this and you'll understand why Daniel Bryan is so good'' and I don't even need to watch it, because what you did in ROH in front of 50 people doesn't matter, the Daniel Bryan you saw on the independents booked like a top guy and putting on 30 minute classics with everyone isn't the Daniel Bryan you'll ever see in the WWE, so what's the point of even showing those videos to me? He'll never be that guy in the WWE, what he was capable of in ROH is irrelevant because now he's on the biggest stage that's all that matters, it's about what Daniel Bryan can show us in the WWE that's important, not what he's done in minor league promotions.
> 
> ...


UGHHHHHH. I can't stand it when people sling around ROH like it's this no name, bottom of the barrel indy fed that doesn't draw any attendance numbers and haven't been the stepping stones for some guys who have started major careers and made a name for themselves. Like 20% of the current main roster came through that "minor league promotion that drew 50 people" at some point or another, not to mention all the alumni.

I can understand all of the talk of "why would I watch this indy match of Danielson when I know I'm never gonna see this guy" talk, but for you to have an accurate opinion of the guy and WHY he's so loved by SO MANY PEOPLE you need to see these matches where he actually does prove himself and portrays why he's one of the best wrestlers and workers in the world. It sort of makes your overall opinion of him ignorant, unless you clearly state that your exposure to him is WWE only, then you can give your love/hate for him all you want. 

What if I told you Danielson was involved in a tag match with Christian? On on ROH show? Is it still minor league with 50 people?

I won't even begin to get started on Cesaro. Ambrose I never had any interest in to begin with. If someone ever told me Antonio Cesaro aka Claudio Castagnoli was overrated and they haven't seen his ROH/PWG/NOAH/WXW/Chikara work, your opinion isn't gonna get much credit tbh. Unless the person going along with the opinion is just as uneducated on the worker. I'm not saying all of this out of anger or anything, it's just that some of these opinions on workers are so off because of what the WWE has shown of them & IT FUCKING SUCKS.

EDIT: Ok 20% was probably a little exaggeration, but I think you know what I meant.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Top pg matches
Taker vs michaels wrestlemania 25 *****
Taker vs Michaels wrestlemania 26 *****
Cena vs michaels raw 2007 ****1/2
Jericho vs rey extreme rules 2009 ****1/4
Morrison vs rey smackdown 2009 ****1/4
Edge vs taker Hiac and Wrestlemania ****1/4
Orton vs cena summerslam 2007****
Punk vs bryan otl ****
Batista vs taker wrestlemania 23 ****
Bryan shaemus er ****
Jericho vs rey(other ppvs) ****
Cena vs michaels wrestlemania 23****
Taker vs hunter wrestlemania 27, 28 ****
Michaels vs flair wrestlemania 24****
All of my favorite matches of rhe "pg" era to be fair I haven't seen punk vs cena mitb


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Kane/Benoit from Bad Blood 04 is one of Kane's best IMO. Kane/Taker vs HHH/Austin from Backlash 01 is very good too, if we're including tag matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Kane's best match is against Chris Benoit @ Bad Blood 2004 no doubt. Most people who have wrestled Benoit would have to say their best match is with him anyways, due to him being maybe a top TWO worker in North American wrestling history.

TOP 10 MATCHES OF DEEEE PEEE GEEEEEE ERAAAAA OFF THE TOP OF KOK'S HEAD

HBK/Taker WM XXVI
UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
HBK/Taker WM XXV
HHH/Taker WM XXVII
Punk/Bryan OTL
UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
HHH/Lesnar SS 12
UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
Punk/Taker WM XXIX

MAYBE.

Shit on the PG Era all you want, but due to having superior workers in the full time main event scene around 2011 - Present (Punk, Cena, Sheamus, Sometimes Bryan, TAKER @ Mania even though it doesn't count as full time), the storytelling in the ring today when it comes to the WWE is at a higher level than ever besides perhaps 97 and 00-01.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH

Easy to guess. Vs. Lesnar & the other 3 are all Cena/Punk matches. MITB, SSlam, & RAW 2/25/13.

BOOM


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Forgotten classic 

Mankind vs. HBK Mind Games 96. What a fucking match to say the least, amazing psychology, story telling, spots, bumps, wrestling, brutality, counters, not to mention the sheer innovation in this match. Bit surprised this match doesn't get talked about a lot. ***** star classic. One of the greatest matches of all time


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
> 
> Easy to guess. Vs. Lesnar & the other 3 are all Cena/Punk matches. MITB, SSlam, & RAW 2/25/13.
> 
> BOOM


..........................................

.........................................................

........................................................................

:cena3


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Listened to Review A Wai and they talked about Uncensored 1996. Just had to see the main event for myself...

*The Mega Powers (Hulk Hogan and Macho Man Randy Savage) vs. The Alliance To End Hulkamania (Kevin Sullivan, Lex Luger, Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Meng, Barbarian, Z-Gangsta and The Ultimate Solution)*

Yep, so it's two men versus eight in a DOOMSDAY CAGE match. Schiavone explains the rules as best as he can but does anybody understand? Michael Buffer calls Hogan and Savage the 'Mega Force' which is a great start. I don't care what anybody says, Buffer was fucking _horse shit_ as an announcer. It's pretty much a HUGE cage stationed by the entrance way with three levels. It starts with Mega Powers and Flair/Anderson on the top. They have a lame brawl for about ten minutes until Hogan and Savage climb down to the second level. They then have a battle with Meng, Barbarian, Sullivan and Luger. All the while, nobody had a fucking clue what was going on because you can't see shit. Still no sign of Z-Gangsta and Ultimate Solution. 

Some reason, the match wanders off to the actual ringside area where Mega Powers exchange Gerald Brisco-esque chairshots with Luger and Sullivan (if you don't know what I mean, watch Austin-Foley from Survivor Series 1998). Nobody has a fucking clue what is going on. Dusty, Schiavone and Heenan try their absolute best to describe how dangerous and brutal everything is. 

The Ultimate Solution and Z-Gangsta finally make an appearance, and...holy shit. The Ultimate Solution is basically ex-World Class 'wrestler' and roid junkie Jeep Swenson, and he makes Ryback look like fucking Duane Gill. Z-Gangsta is the man formerly known as ZEUS. The action _hums_. It is so bad. They finally get back to the cage, and now it's about 17 men against Hogan and Savage. Savage gathers a sack of something, and next thing you know, he and Hogan look like they're nose deep in coke in the corner of the ring. The Booty Man (ugh...Ed Leslie) makes an appearance and hands the babyfaces some equalisers. What does he give them? A chain? Steel chairs? An uzi? No, a pair of fucking FRYING PANS. Hogan and Savage then slap the shit out of everybody with these flimsy weapons of mass destruction.

The best is still to come...Flair is holding Savage for Luger to hit him with THE BLACK GLOVE OF DEATH, but Savage ducks and Luger stops just in time. Or does he? Fuck it, he hits Flair anyway. This is HILARIOUS. Hogan and Savage then leave the cage, but Savage remembers something, wanders back into the ring, pins Flair 1-2-3 and OH MY GAWD The Mega Powers have defied the odds and saved the world. You know those instances where they're so bad you need to see it anyway? This is what I'm talking about. 

Match lasted about 17 days.
Absolute horse shit.

*D-U-D*


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
> 
> Easy to guess. Vs. Lesnar & the other 3 are all Cena/Punk matches. MITB, SSlam, & RAW 2/25/13.
> 
> BOOM


I was going to say the same thing  :cena3

ALSO STARTING SUPERSTARS PROJECT SOON MAYBE, idk lol I am so indecisive


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey Dopesick, watch the Chicago Street Fight from the same show. Sting & Booker vs. The Road Warriors. IT'S EVEN LONGER!


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey Dopesick, watch the Chicago Street Fight from the same show. Sting & Booker vs. The Road Warriors. IT'S EVEN LONGER!


Haha I saw the first five minutes and then jumped to the end. How convenient that Luger is posing right where Animal and Booker T continue their fight. Man, they're so lucky that the nWo started not long after all this shit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> Forgotten classic
> 
> *Mankind vs. HBK Mind Games 96.* What a fucking match to say the least, amazing psychology, story telling, spots, bumps, wrestling, brutality, counters, not to mention the sheer innovation in this match. Bit surprised this match doesn't get talked about a lot. ***** star classic. One of the greatest matches of all time


:mark::mark:. I have a question for you guys, do some of you overrate slightly or give in extra * for matches that involves you favorites just because they are your favorites ? 

for example Ill give HBk/flair from BB 03 a ****1/4 because its a good match but it also has many two favs of all time ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ah, good call. The match is fucking terrible. 30 minutes of NOTHING but pointless brawling and ridiculoudly weak chair shots. Plus Lex Luger & Stevie Ray are dragged in obviously. ASS


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That Uncensored match is fucking ATROCIOUS and one of the biggest chores to sit through ever, just a disgusting match with no positive qualities in the slightest sense of the word.

About to watch the Backlash 2008 Fatal Four Way Elimination Match where Trips wins the W-W-E CHAMPIONSHIP :mark:. IIRC it`s not a classic or anything, but it`s a pretty damn solid match (let`s see how this fucker holds up when it comes to CENA matches).


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

A few years ago, I posted on this forum that the Doomsday Cage match was my pick for the worst match ever. I don't know if I stand by that today, but it's fucking up there.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> That Uncensored match is fucking ATROCIOUS and one of the biggest chores to sit through ever, just a disgusting match with no positive qualities in the slightest sense of the word.
> 
> About to watch the Backlash 2008 Fatal Four Way Elimination Match where Trips wins the W-W-E CHAMPIONSHIP :mark:. IIRC it`s not a classic or anything, but it`s a pretty damn solid match (let`s see how this fucker holds up when it comes to CENA matches).


I remember really enjoying this match. I'd at least go *** on it


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I`d rate it just a tad higher but it`s in that range. First half of the match with Cena and JBL involved is straight up four star quality, it just takes a little of a dip when it ends up being Orton vs HHH for 20 fucking minutes straight. 

Actually, the HHH-Orton segment isn't even that bad in this.

ACTUALLY, I just realized that I like all of HHH-Orton's stuff Pre-Viper Orton. Mainly because outside of a few matches, Viper Orton fucking SUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dopesick, no lie that show had what may be the worst WCW match ever yet it also had what may be the best WCW match ever too - Regal vs Finlay. Which also got a glorious amount of time _(nearly 20)_

Funny how it that works.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> :mark::mark:. I have a question for you guys, do some of you overrate slightly or give in extra * for matches that involves you favorites just because they are your favorites ?


I'm sure some do. I probably do. I get more invested in the matches with guys I like because, well, I dig them so maybe I do rate them higher.

I love that Mind Games match but the ending is a total blunder.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have that four way from Backlash 08 at around ★★★¼. If they didn't go WM2000 with it by eliminating half the competition early and turn it into a lengthy one-on-one, I would've liked it more.

On another note, I finally finished KOK's "greatest Wrestlemania match ever" which is the battle of HART's from WM X. ★★★★¼ to me. Maybe I'll "understand" it another time, but here I just thought it's a great match and that's it. Some great back and forth and brother/brother storyline with it as well as Lawler being funny on commentary. Really wanting to get into more of Bret's work.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Dopesick, no lie that show had what may be the worst WCW match ever yet it also had what may be the best WCW match ever too - Regal vs Finlay. Which also got a glorious amount of time _(nearly 20)_
> 
> Funny how it that works.


That Finlay/Regal match is fun to watch but not much quality. I watched for first time a few weeks ago and that was my impression.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> What I mean by ''overrated indy talent'' is people overrate him on this forum just because he came from the indes - and they think he's the best because Bryan Danielson was the god on the independents, and they think he's entitled to a lot just because he was a big deal in indy scene, when WWE is much different. *To succeed in the WWE it's about being the best entertainer, or best money drawer,* or the best larger-than-life attraction, not the best wrestler. It's never been about who's the best wrestler. It's about the spectacle, the characters, the storylines, not who can put on the best 20 minute technical classic.
> 
> A few times when I've criticized Bryan in the past, someone who post a link to one of his ROH matches or something and they'll say: ''watch this and you'll understand why Daniel Bryan is so good'' and I don't even need to watch it, because what you did in ROH in front of 50 people doesn't matter, the Daniel Bryan you saw on the independents booked like a top guy and putting on 30 minute classics with everyone isn't the Daniel Bryan you'll ever see in the WWE, so what's the point of even showing those videos to me? He'll never be that guy in the WWE, what he was capable of in ROH is irrelevant because now he's on the biggest stage that's all that matters, it's about what Daniel Bryan can show us in the WWE that's important, not what he's done in minor league promotions.
> 
> ...


oh and I found all of this to be terrible. I can't believe the bolded part quite frankly. Spouts off as WWE ignorance at it's best. Good grief.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah I`d rate it just a tad higher but it`s in that range. First half of the match with Cena and JBL involved is straight up four star quality, it just takes a little of a dip when it ends up being Orton vs HHH for 20 fucking minutes straight.
> 
> Actually, the HHH-Orton segment isn't even that bad in this.
> 
> ACTUALLY, I just realized that I like all of HHH-Orton's stuff Pre-Viper Orton. Mainly because outside of a few matches, Viper Orton fucking SUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKS.


Lmfao yea I would probably rate it a little higher too bjt its been. While since I've actually saw it, I just remember I had it at least that high. I'm actually a big fan of jbl


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> That Finlay/Regal match is fun to watch but not much quality. I watched for first time a few weeks ago and that was my impression.


About two minutes in I was convinced it was the MOTY of '96 from World Championship Wrestling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> I'm sure some do. I probably do. I get more invested in the matches with guys I like because, well, I dig them so maybe I do rate them higher.
> 
> I love that Mind Games match but the ending is a total blunder.


yea thanks I thought nobody was going to respond for a second :sad: yea i think we all fall victim to this alittle bit


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> oh and I found all of this to be terrible. I can't believe the bolded part quite frankly. Spouts off as WWE ignorance at it's best. Good grief.


It's how the business ultimately works. Why do you think The Rock was WWE champion? Because he draws the most money for the company. Why you do think so many people cared for Hogan vs Andre? Because of the spectacle, the larger than life attraction, that's facts people can't deny. 

I don't care for who draws, I didn't like The Rock as WWE Champion, I never cared for Hogan, but I'm just speaking the truth. Sadly it doesn't matter how much talent you have, something can always keep you back from being the best in the WWE, with Christian being my all time favorite wrestler I know all about that.

But thanks for just pointing out that and ignoring the rest of my post.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You used it as a negative towards him though. Then you enjoy Christian & Dolph Ziggler. It makes zero sense when it comes in context to what you're throwing towards Danielson as to why he isn't a MEGA star.

Rock mention is funny. When there is clearly the other side of the fence who offer that "WWE appeal" + great wrestling which allows them to remain as mainstays. The likes of The Undertaker, Steve Austin, Bret Hart, & John Cena. All got up there via the work put forth to entice the fans to care. By my knowledge, those fans going ape for Danielson's YES/NO character is pretty reminiscent to a leading force towards how others have achieved big success within the company. Austin for example. When fans are clamoring to see you, yeah, you've done something right.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> You used it as a negative towards him though. Then you enjoy Christian & Dolph Ziggler. It makes zero sense when it comes in context to what you're throwing towards Danielson as to why he isn't a MEGA star.


I don't think anyone understood what I was truly saying, so I think I'll let the discussion die. My post wasn't about bashing indy guys, or why Bryan isn't a top star, it was about the fans who overrate these guys because they came from the indes. They see what they can do in the indes, where the wrestlers have so much more freedom in terms of characters, matches, moves, promos, but then they expect when they come to the WWE, they'll be so big just because how successful they were in the minor promotions. But when they come to WWE it ultimately comes to down to this:


Nostalgia said:


> WWE water your character down, or completely change it, they change your name sometimes, they restrict your moveset, they script your promos, they tell you what they want you to be. Kassius Ohno is completely different to what Chris Hero was on the indy scene. And these indy talents honestly can't live up to the hype their many loyal fans make for them, because you honestly are deluded if you think a wrestler is going to be so good in the WWE, and so successful, just because they were in the minor league promotions in front of a crowd of 50 people.


Truth.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Dopesick, no lie that show had what may be the worst WCW match ever yet it also had what may be the best WCW match ever too - Regal vs Finlay. Which also got a glorious amount of time _(nearly 20)_
> 
> Funny how it that works.


Yeah I remember catching this match about six months ago or something. Match was just stiff as hell, they're just two tough bastards. Pity the crowd was dead but who cares when you're just watching two guys beat the tar out of each other.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's like that for every single worker employed. We all know this. So what's your point? All b/c people talk up the talent of a worker it demands displeasure from you? If your post wasn't finding a way to slam Danielson or anyone else who was successful on the indies then it leaves us to wonder what your point was in the first place. It couldn't be to list a point of WWE that has been known among fans for decades.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I've never really understood the hatred for indy guys. Yes, there is a lot of hatred for indy guys on here believe it or not. Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but it seems the number of people supporting hard working guys from the indies are drastically being outnumbered by people moaning ABOUT the people who give credit to guys who plied their trade in the indies.

I think too many people are worshipping at the alter of Vince McMahon, that the WWE is the be all and end all. In my opinion, being excited about a guy like Ambrose or Cesaro making their way into the big leagues is no different than someone getting excited about territory guys like Shawn Michaels, Jim Duggan or Ted Dibiase back in the 1980s. There's no more territories anymore, so these guys have to learn the ropes somewhere. Not everyone is lucky enough to get spotted by a WWE talent scout just because they don't have the right look. It's situations like these that are why we'll never see guys like Foley, Dusty or even Austin in the WWE again for a very very long time.

'Paying your dues' seems to be scorned upon like it's against the rules. So what if people get excited about indy guys getting into the big leagues? If anything, these guys should be embraced. Just because the WWE are too incompetent to know what to do with half of them, doesn't mean they need to be shat on.

All this coming from someone who hardly ever watches independent wrestling.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler *(_Night of Champions 2012_)

What the hell was this? I'm actually kind of angry at how boring this was. You could really just tell it was two guys who were currently involved in nothing and they just said go out and have a long match for no reason. Orton looks so uninspired while working at half speed it's not even funny. I fucking HATE that clothesline, clothesline, powerslam combo. Certainly the match had a few good moments (Ziggler scouting the apron ddt & the superplex looked nice) but the middle portion is WAY TOO SLOW with the long chinlock and slow walking around, and I wanted to fucking stab Orton in the throat while watching this. Not what I was expecting at all. These two had much better matches in half the time on RAW.

*** 1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dopesick said:


> Yeah I remember catching this match about six months ago or something. Match was just stiff as hell, they're just two tough bastards. Pity the crowd was dead but who cares when you're just watching two guys beat the tar out of each other.


Same mentality. Trashy the fans didn't react much to it. Didn't hinder any love by me. It's been the case for Regal & Finlay a good number of times during their career with mainstream wrestling.



Dopesick said:


> I've never really understood the hatred for indy guys. Yes, there is a lot of hatred for indy guys on here believe it or not. Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but it seems the number of people supporting hard working guys from the indies are drastically being outnumbered by people moaning ABOUT the people who give credit to guys who plied their trade in the indies.
> 
> I think too many people are worshipping at the alter of Vince McMahon, that the WWE is the be all and end all. In my opinion, being excited about a guy like Ambrose or Cesaro making their way into the big leagues is no different than someone getting excited about territory guys like Shawn Michaels, Jim Duggan or Ted Dibiase back in the 1980s. There's no more territories anymore, so these guys have to learn the ropes somewhere. Not everyone is lucky enough to get spotted by a WWE talent scout just because they don't have the right look. It's situations like these that are why we'll never see guys like Foley, Dusty or even Austin in the WWE again for a very very long time.
> 
> ...


:clap



Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler *(_Night of Champions 2012_)
> 
> What the hell was this? I'm actually kind of angry at how boring this was. You could really just tell it was two guys who were currently involved in nothing and they just said go out and have a long match for no reason. Orton looks so uninspired while working at half speed it's not even funny. I fucking HATE that clothesline, clothesline, powerslam combo. Certainly the match had a few good moments (Ziggler scouting the apron ddt & the superplex looked nice) but the middle portion is WAY TOO SLOW with the long chinlock and slow walking around, and I wanted to fucking stab Orton in the throat while watching this. Not what I was expecting at all. These two had much better matches in half the time on RAW.
> 
> *** 1/2*


Thank you. Match isn't special at all. I can name a random seven minute match from Smackdown in latter 2011 that I had more fun with. All of their matches are honestly overrated though. Entertaining yes. Sheesh, you'd think you saw the greatest match ever according to some on that match from August of 2011. Dolph hit that superkick while Orton went to punt him - omg great match! Not really. It's good. Lets just leave it at that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler *(_Night of Champions 2012_)
> 
> What the hell was this? I'm actually kind of angry at how boring this was. You could really just tell it was two guys who were currently involved in nothing and they just said go out and have a long match for no reason. Orton looks so uninspired while working at half speed it's not even funny. I fucking HATE that clothesline, clothesline, powerslam combo. Certainly the match had a few good moments (Ziggler scouting the apron ddt & the superplex looked nice) but the middle portion is WAY TOO SLOW with the long chinlock and slow walking around, and I wanted to fucking stab Orton in the throat while watching this. Not what I was expecting at all. These two had much better matches in half the time on RAW.
> 
> *** 1/2*


Think I need to watch this match again. I do remember enjoying it at the time, but I haven't seen it since. I'm just looking at that the PPV card now and this match goes 18 minutes, which is long for a match with no real feud behind it iirc. This match went 4 minutes longer than the World Title match on this PPV, but then again, the World Title match was between Sheamus and Del Rio and we absolutely didn't need to see that match go a long time. 

I think if they had the match go like 12-13 minutes or something then that would of been more ideal, and it would cut out the slow parts and let the match excel at a fast pace that Ziggler shines at.



HayleySabin said:


> Thank you. Match isn't special at all. I can name a random seven minute match from Smackdown in latter 2011 that I had more fun with. All of their matches are honestly overrated though. Entertaining yes. Sheesh, you'd think you saw the greatest match ever according to some on that match from August of 2011. *Dolph hit that superkick while Orton went to punt him - omg great match!*Not really. It's good. Lets just leave it at that.


That was from their Survivor Series match when it came down to just them two in Elimination tag, pretty sure they didn't do that spot in their NOC match, because Ziggler won the Survivor Series match with that sequence, but he lost to Orton in their NOC match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler *(_Night of Champions 2012_)
> 
> What the hell was this? I'm actually kind of angry at how boring this was. You could really just tell it was two guys who were currently involved in nothing and they just said go out and have a long match for no reason. Orton looks so uninspired while working at half speed it's not even funny. I fucking HATE that clothesline, clothesline, powerslam combo. Certainly the match had a few good moments (Ziggler scouting the apron ddt & the superplex looked nice) but the middle portion is WAY TOO SLOW with the long chinlock and slow walking around, and I wanted to fucking stab Orton in the throat while watching this. Not what I was expecting at all. These two had much better matches in half the time on RAW.
> 
> *** 1/2*


this exactly, its funny becuase when I saw it live i loved it and thought it "stole the show" but on the re-watch its extremely boring. their august 11 and raw match after the rumble 12 blow it out of the water


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

bme said:


> As someone who's watched his indy favorites move to the big leagues, I've never liked the "watch his past work" replies people gave on a newly signed wrestler.
> So many things go into how they're used in a company, that expecting a wrestler to be used the same way in a different company is ridiculous.



I agree with this. I also think the "restricted moveset" is a bs argument as well. I love wrestling and all styles that come with it.. Japan strong style, American indy, southern wrestling, WWE but in WWE, EVERYONE's moveset is restricted. Some guys on the indy's shouldn't even be allowed the freedom do whatever the fuck they want because they suck at structuring a match (I'm looking at you Davey Richards)

I've only been at this forum seriously for a few weeks, but this place has such strong, polarizing opinions.. Like "WWE is the end all be all, no other wrestling matters! or "WWE blows! Watch this spotfest promotion with movez! And no story!

For the record, CM Punk is my favorite WWE wrestler and I feel like ever since he stepped foot in ROH, he was made for WWE's Style. Which he keeps proving me right. Danielson is another talent who needed a new challenge, he wrestled old school broadways, territory type wrestling but if he didn't go to WWE, he'd probably be broke and in a wheelchair by 40.

He's reinvented himself, he's healthy, still young and his WWE prime is still ahead of him. Plus, he's making a boatload of money. So happy for him.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nice to see some folks on agreeing on my Orton/Ziggler thoughts. Now let's see if anyone goes along with this... :
*
WWE Championship
*CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena (_Night of Champions 2012_)

Wow, so the entire build up vid to this is comprised of one in-ring promo between the two, and it's pretty damn intense. If you guys weren't aware, Punk is a Paul Heyman Guy. LOVE Punk refusing to give up the belt and playing mind games with Cena, plus those Yankees colored trunks in Boston. Not gonna lie, this had a big time feel but the match itself hugely disappointed me. There were definitely some things to love here, i.e. both guys having to pull out different moves because their signature stuff wasn't getting the job done. Surprisingly Cena's suicide dive looked great while Punk's moonsault was butt ugly.  Unfortunate they botched that, but it happens. Also Punk's constant scouting of the 5 knuckle shuffle was great until Cena finally hits it with no hesitation. I felt a lot of the match just kind of meandered along until the next big move occurred though. Punk's short control segment wasn't much of anything but taunts. How can I describe the last several minutes? Overkill, honestly. The first GTS nearfall was great but then it started to get out of hand. So many attempts of the same big moves & I think they landed two AA & GTS's each for kickouts. I just wasn't quite feeling the excitement since I already knew the outcome I guess. All in all it's not a bad match but it's certainly not their greatest, probably their worst PPV encounter tbh.

**** 1/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Nice to see some folks on agreeing on my Orton/Ziggler thoughts. Now let's see if anyone goes along with this... :
> *
> WWE Championship
> *CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena (_Night of Champions 2012_)
> ...


YOU.

DID.

NOT.

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! NO! 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

unk3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao

Believe me, I REALLY wanted to love it, but the whole time I was like, "fuck this is going on for a while... oh another AA. Oh hey look, GTS nearfall. Crowd really liked that one" 

Their RAW match this year blows it out of the water, tbhayley.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Nice to see some folks on agreeing on my Orton/Ziggler thoughts. Now let's see if anyone goes along with this... :
> *
> WWE Championship
> *CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena (_Night of Champions 2012_)
> ...


haha your pushing it now. its the total opposite as opposed to the ziggler/orton match, I didn't like this much when I first watched it thought it was slow and had the mentality that nothing can out do mitb. I was wrong obviously Mitb has the angle and hot crowd but this wresting wise is on par if not better.Punk and Cena knocked it put of the park with this one. legit ****3/4 if not for hhh/taker MOTY for me


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I feel kinda dirty. Kinda like when JoeRulz comes in here and posts all those criminally low ratings for matches loved by the vast majority.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Just finished Foley's doc. Probably in my top five WWE wrestler docs. Just awesome and so candid.. Realized having Foley out of my top ten was a crime lol. He's in now. I loved the story about trying to get life insurance money because vader crushed him haha..

I'm thinking though about getting his previous DVD for the matches. Only $6 on Amazon.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I feel kinda dirty. Kinda like when JoeRulz comes in here and posts all those criminally low ratings for matches loved by the vast majority.


dont feel bad Im probably the only person on this forum that doesn't like brock/cena er 12. I tried so many times to watch and like it but I just cant at all


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> dont feel bad Im probably the only person on this forum that doesn't like brock/cena er 12. I tried so many times to watch and like it but I just cant at all


Don't worry you're not alone. That match is a disgrace.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

No way, Brock/Cena ER 2012 is a masterpiece. Brock coming back to "legitimize" the WWE by polarizing the face of the company is what puts it over the top. I said it for Trips/Taker WM27 and i'll say it again for this match, people need to look past the in-ring action and notice how good the story is portrayed.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Fuuuuck, I need to see this Foley doc. Might purchase the DVD when I get my next pay.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GEE GUYS.

WANNA DO ANYTHING ELSE TO HURT MY FEELINGS?

WHAT'S NEXT? SOMEBODY COMING IN HERE TO INSULT THE SUMMERSLAM MATCH AS WELL?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Let's be honest, Layla and Eve stole NOC.

Ok then....lol

Sorry, it's just that anytime NOC '12 gets brought up I just have to pimp out Layla/Eve.

Anyway, going back a couple pages. Backlash '08 4 way isn't great? I thought it was. I've never seen it but I've heard lots of great things about it. Or am I confusing it with Backlash '07? Iirc, they did the same fatal 4 way match 2 years in a row? 

I started my PPV 2006 pack today. Ratings from the matches I've seen thus far.

Henry/Angle Royal Rumble **3/4
Benoit/Booker T NWO ***1/4
Orton/Mysterio NWO ***3/4
Taker/Angle NWO ****
Cena/Edge/HHH Backlash ****1/4 (frickin' awesome!)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Angle NWO, Only 4 stars? Now, That's new.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker-Angle only four stars? REEEAAALLLYYY? Now that's an interesting one, but I'm sure a case can be made. Get irritated with Kurt reversing every single fucking move into an ANGLE lock of some sort? :lol

Watching JBL-Cena FIRST BLOOD right now, going pretty good thus far but it's my style of match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ first person on here that has the same rating as me for the taker/angle nwo 06 match. good match but nowhere near the ***** top 10 match in wwe history match some ppl throw around here


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker is GOAT of the first blood stipulation, has both the Kennedy and Austin match under his belt. Not to mention, He took Austin's own blood and signed a contract with it. Now that's how you build a feud.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow, the JBL-Cena match was critically panned but then again, these are the same people throwing four stars at fucking Edge-Taker from the same show so I won't take them seriously :lol.

The match was GREAT, as is every JBL match besides the Mania one believe it or not .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

PG Era Top Ten:

Punk/Cena MITB 2011 *******
Undertaker/HBK WM XXV *******
Undertaker/HBK WM XXVI *******
Jericho/HBK No Mercy 2008 *******
Bryan/Punk Over The Limit 2012 *****3/4*
Undertaker/HHH WM XXVIII *****1/2*
6-Man-Tag TLC 2012 *****1/2*
Punk/Cena Summerslam 2011 *****1/2*
Orton/Christian Over The Limit 2011 *****1/2*
Punk/Hardy Summerslam 2009 *****1/2*

Kane's Ten Best non-tag/battle royal/etc. Matches:

vs. Benoit Bad Blood 2004 *****1/4*
vs. Undertaker WM XIV ******
vs. Bryan/Punk No Way Out 2012 ******
vs. HHH RAW 2003 ****3/4*
vs. Undertaker Smackdown 2008 ****3/4*
vs. Benoit RAW 2004 ****3/4* (Can somebody please find me this match? Haven't seen it since it aired)
vs. Punk Smackdown 2012 ****3/4*
vs. Edge LMS Smackdown 2011 ****3/4*
vs. HBK Unforgiven 2004 ****3/4*
vs. Rock/Undertaker/Benoit Unforgiven 2000 ****3/4* (SERIOUSLY needs rewatch. Haven't seen it in eight years!)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOING THROUGH CENA SURVIVOR SERIES TAGS NOW :mark: :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i gotta rewatch Punk/cena summerslam. I had it as their worst encounter but Ill give it a re watch haven't seen it in a while


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Mankind/Michaels was a great match with a great ending.

The Uncensored doomsday match gave me a few laughs, they definitely were trying to make the worst match ever.
The great equalizer...frying pans? black glove? lmao

Only difference between Orton now and in 2008 is that he isn't cutting long promos, those made me wish for the days of heel HHH.

Had Punk/Cena (NOC) at ***1/2
Need to rewatch their RAW Match as i stopped watching when Cena hit an AA.



Lazyking said:


> I agree with this. I also think the "restricted moveset" is a bs argument as well. I love wrestling and all styles that come with it.. Japan strong style, American indy, southern wrestling, WWE but in WWE, EVERYONE's moveset is restricted. Some guys on the indy's shouldn't even be allowed the freedom do whatever t he fuck they want because they suck at structuring a match (I'm looking at you Davey Richards)
> 
> I've only been at this forum seriously for a few weeks, but this place has such strong, polarizing opinions.. Like "WWE is the end all be all, no other wrestling matters! or "WWE blows! Watch this spotfest promotion with movez! And no story!
> 
> ...


Restrictions can go too far but some "restricted moveset" arguments make no sense.
One person is mad wrestlers aren't hitting suplexes and another person has watched some indy wrestling and decided every wrestler should do the same moves and take the same risk.
They need to stop watching wrestling cause when they get their wish and every wrestler is easily interchangeable they're going to be pissed.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Taker/Angle NWO, Only 4 stars? Now, That's new.


I've never seen this and burnt myself out watching nothing but NJPW stuff the past week so gonna check it out.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Kane's Ten Best non-tag/battle royal/etc. Matches:
> 
> vs. Benoit Bad Blood 2004 *****1/4*
> vs. Undertaker WM XIV ******
> ...


Good list, I'm gonna take a crack at my own.

vs. Taker - WM14 *(****)*
vs. Benoit - Bad Blood 2004 *(****)*
vs. Shane McMahon - Unforgiven 2003, LMS *(****)*
vs. Austin - KOTH 1998, First Blood *(***3/4)*
vs. Jericho - Armageddon 2000, LMS *(***3/4)*
vs. Bryan - Smackdown June 2010 *(***3/4)*
vs. HBK - Unforgiven 2004* (***3/4)*
vs. Edge - Smackdown, LMS *(***1/2)*
vs. Rey - No Mercy 2008 *(***1/2)*
vs. Taker - Night Of Champions 2010 *(***1/2)*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bme said:


> Mankind/Michaels was a great match with a great ending.


Wow, great ending? What'd you like about it?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Cena Summerslam is excellent. Only seen it once but thought it was worked better than the Money in the Bank match, except MitB had intangibles that really put it over the top as something special. Their chemistry is unreal.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Punk/Cena Summerslam is excellent. Only seen it once but thought it was worked better than the Money in the Bank match, except MitB had intangibles that really put it over the top as something special. Their chemistry is unreal.


THIS X 1000.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

One thing that I loved about the Summerslam 2011 match was that we got to see Cena showcase his strength and power offense (Emerald Frosion, Spinning Side Slam). I have no clue why Cena doesn't emphasize his power more often in his matches, especially against smaller opponents. Big time feel match with awesome action and great near falls.


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

Punk/Cena Summerslam is absolutely terrific. A **** plus match easily.

Even though the majority will say their best encounter was probably MITB or their Raw match, I may be in the minority since my favorite encounter of theirs was their Summerslam match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Ratings on all the PPV matches from the Austin-Taker series.

A Cold Day In Hell 1997 *(****1/4)*
Summerslam 1998 *(***)*
WWF Rock Bottom 1998, Buried Alive Match *(**)*
Over The Edge 1999 *(**1/2)*
Fully Loaded 1999, First Blood *(****)*
Judgement Day 2001, No Holds Barred *(***3/4)*
Backlash 2002 *(***1/2)*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Summerslam is my personal favorite as well, it's a shame that WWE pretty much hasn't acknowledged it's existence since happening, probably because of the screwy finish and all but oh well. I love pretty much every Cena-Punk match to death besides the two short ones (especially the Superstar of the Year tournament where Punk gets squashed in 2 minutes), and when I'm counting down my top 100 Cena matches ever I think you'll see more Punk on there than anybody else. Top shelf quality, consistent quality, number of matches, it's all there. I might go out on a limb and say it's the best series of matches that has ever gone over FIVE singles. The only thing that would even come close may indeed be HHH-Foley, but even THEY never had the amazing TV matches that Cena-Punk had besides the awesome RAW Streetfight in 97. Rey-Eddie is below it simply because of the awfulness of Mania XXI and THAT FUCKING SUMMERSLAM MATCH that I hate with a burning passion.

HBK-Taker & Hart-Austin are above it for me due to neither having a match below four stars from where I sit (and multiple five star matches), but Cena-Punk have managed to stay above the three star level for all of their matches lasting long enough, something that should be damn near impossible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> That was from their Survivor Series match when it came down to just them two in Elimination tag, pretty sure they didn't do that spot in their NOC match, because Ziggler won the Survivor Series match with that sequence, but he lost to Orton in their NOC match.


I was saying that about their second encounter or so from August of 2011 on RAW. Which was the same spot used to end the Survivor Series match. Most of their matches tend to tread the same waters so it wasn't a surprise to me to see the spot used again. Crowd always has a good reaction following the superkick.

-----------

Calling Cena vs Brock Extreme Rules a "disgrace" is hilarious. Cena won. Get over it.

The ending to Mankind vs Michaels from Mind Games is botched. I too am curious at how it is great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thoughts on the Cena/Punk NOC match, Cody?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Continuing my HBK project, finished off 1992 with Rick Martel at Summerslam, British Bulldog at Saturday night main event and Bret Hart for the WWF title at Survivor Series. Intresting at which match rated highest.

*HBK vs. The Model Rick Martel- Summerslam 1992; No punches to the face.*

***1/4

Decent match, nothing special besides Sherri's ass. Heel vs. Heel rarely works and doesn't really here. Plays out how you'd expect and Sherri is the real star, taking a bump to floor dead weight style. That was after she faked fainted to get the attention of the two guys in the ring. Classic Sherri.

*Shawn Michaels vs. British Bulldog -SNME for the IC Title-*

****

I've seen this match on dvd, still holds up. Not AS amazing as I remember mostly because I was looking for flaws. I loved the selling in this match and its fast paced yet too fast paced cause they get out of position a few times. Solid match that gets high marks for the finish. Story well done. Good example of maximizing your mins.

*HBK vs. Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1992 for the WWF Title*

***1/2

I was excited to watch this match between two of my faves, never seen this one before. Gotta say, bit of a letdown, Start of the match is good, Bret was crisp as always but then Shawn got on offense and the match bogged down considerably.. Just didn't like his offense. The work to wear down Bret became so boring.. Expected better. Plus, there was little to no heat. Just your standard, long early to mid 90s title match.

on to 1993!

Note, I'm not a harsh rater. A **** match for me is something re-watchable, really good match. If I have it in the *** range then it's somewhat enjoyable but not something I'd be riveted to or want to rewatch anytime soon.

Just saying that if people think I'm too generous lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One time viewing - it was in the like pile. I like the match as a whole. It was the closing sequence that turned on the charm for me. Sucked me in yet again. I dug the finish too considering it was an interesting out for the match instead of the "oh punk just won by cheating/oh cena won clean again" formula. It WAS going to happen in Hell in a Cell after all. Too bad we didn't get to see it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I would like to hear some ratings on all the PPV matches from the Austin-Taker series.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I only have thoughts on about three of the matches off the top of my head + never seeing Backlash '02.

A Cold Day In Hell & Fully Loaded matches rock. Buried Alive match...standard Attitude Era brawl and has a botched finish. I don't hate it, nor do I have any standout positives to comment on it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks guys for posting the Kane matches. I feel like a turd for asking and them leaving, but work calls. Will have to catch up on some of those.

Honestly don't remember many of the Austin/Taker matches but I do LOVE the Fully Loaded match, especially the video package. "Austin: What I want is your blood." 

Getting ready to watch the FOLEY doc. May start it tonight then catch up later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Foley doc. Jealous.

I must own right now.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

SS is my second favorite encounter between Punk & Cena.
One thing about the ending though is why Cena never called out HHH for the messed up call.

Watched an episode of Botchamania featuring the Eddie/Rey match from WM21 and i didn't remember Mysterio screwing with his mask. 



Yeah1993 said:


> Wow, great ending? What'd you like about it?


Taker appearing in the casket.
Probably not great but awesome when i initially saw it.



HayleySabin said:


> The ending to Mankind vs Michaels from Mind Games is botched. I too am curious at how it is great.


Don't remember anything screwy about the ending, may need to rematch the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mistiming with Vader & Sid.

Undertaker spot out of the casket was legit, of course. That was after the match was over.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah the Foley doc is awesome stuff. tbf Foley has a great story to tell and he is incredibly truthful which is refreshing especially around his retirement and it being more of a money issue then a love this BUSINESS situation. Has a good list of commentators on his career as well with Heyman , Punk , JR and HHH all on it . Obviously you get some goons on it such as Miz but it's expected in a WWE release. Just sad there was no mention of his TNA career 8*D8*D .

Going to watch the extras and see if any of the matches strike my liking.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> Mistiming with Vader & Sid.
> 
> Undertaker spot out of the casket was legit, of course. That was after the match was over.


Oh ok


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, I'm not quite 30 minutes in and the people talking I like hearing such as Arn Anderson, Jim Ross, Shane Douglas and DOMINIC DENUCCI. Can't bear to see Miz on my TV, let alone talking about a great like Foley.

Come to think of it, I hope to God that Miz doesn't wind up on the GAME's DVD.

That said, 30 minutes in to Foley's and I'm fucking enthralled. Great story to tell, indeed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shane Douglas? Wow at him showing up for it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Arn looks weird as fuck without glasses btw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:arn?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I feel kinda dirty. Kinda like when JoeRulz comes in here and posts all those criminally low ratings for matches loved by the vast majority.


I am cowboy, looking for anything heavy. 

But that's why I have Hogan/Vince (WM 19) at ****3/4. :vince

Just watched Angle/Hogan from KOTR '02, and it was a damn fine match. Angle made the Hulkster tap, well that was something, I'm tellin ya. ***1/2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

JoeRulz said:


> I am cowboy, looking for anything heavy.
> 
> But that's why I have Hogan/Vince (WM 19) at ****3/4. :vince
> 
> Just watched Angle/Hogan from KOTR '02, and it was a damn fine match. Angle made the Hulkster tap, well that was something, I'm tellin ya. ***1/2


Giving Taker/Lesnar Biker Chain one snowflake is far from criminal, It's sadistic. :shock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not at all. I agreed with him on that. Match is a struggle to finish.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Not at all. I agreed with him on that. Match is a struggle to finish.


No, not you too. Has this very world i grew up in, GONE MAD?!!!.

Anyways, what are your thoughts and ratings on the Sinsksty/Kane series from 2004?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Mick Foley doc for anyone who's interested http://watchwrestling.net/watch-wwe-for-all-mankind-the-life-and-career-of-mick-foley-2013-dvd/


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Mick's doc is top notch (Y)

Though, i am a sucker for docs made by the E, honestly i'd probably watch a half hour one for Braden Walker


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

GOATAntics said:


> Giving Taker/Lesnar Biker Chain one snowflake is far from criminal, It's sadistic. :shock


Watch that match again, and try not to fall asleep, I DARE YOU!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

JoeRulz said:


> Watch that match again, and try not to fall asleep, I DARE YOU!


I did watch it, a couple weeks ago, I didn't fall asleep once. However i did doze off a bit during the DUDDIEST OF DUDS father-daughter "I Quit" match. That shit was humiliating. fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> No, not you too. Has this very world i grew up in, GONE MAD?!!!.
> 
> Anyways, what are your thoughts and ratings on the Sinsksty/Kane series from 2004?


Snitsky was a guilty pleasure guy for me so I liked the program. Whole "BABY KILLER" stuff cracked me up. Anytime a big ugly dude punts a baby & goes on a tear, chances are I'm going to enjoy it. Taboo Tuesday match wasn't pretty, but I liked it. New Year's Revolution match was bad. Their effort put forth in the five minute No DQ match or whatever they had on RAW was good. So yeah, only one bad portion out of the whole for me.

and I'll greatly watch the Vince vs Steph match over Undertaker vs Brock from that PPV. I Quit match rules. One of my favorites. Vince's heel work was demonic.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Stone Cold and Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart and British Bulldog - RAW 1997 ****

Stone Cold vs Shawn Michaels - King of the Ring 1997 *****


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Snitsky/Kane was entertaining and one of the more memorable programmes of the past decade, imo. I'd have to rewatch the matches to give an exact rating (I don't remember them being all that grand) but it's sure worthy of your time, at any rate.



JoeRulz said:


> Watch that match again, and try not to fall asleep, I DARE YOU!


A better criticism is how they negated the point of the chain (the central part to the frigging match) by focusing on the use of other weaponry. Though it's not like Lesnar adequately sold a PILEDRIVER onto the steps. An overusage of interference and that aside, this match wasn't bad. Not that bad, at any rate. JoeRulz, you may hate their HiaC match more. I remember being the only one not thinking of it as great in this thread. That "psychology/selling". :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only The Undertaker can chokeslam dudes with a broken hand. <3 the HIAC.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Does anyone have a matchlist for the new Foley set?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Does anyone have a matchlist for the new Foley set?


http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/mankind-mick-foleystandard-edition-p-11741.html


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Got the Foley DVD all ready to watch tonight, can't wait should be a great doc and the matches look decent as well

Just discovered XWT for the first time so going a bit crazy with packs, got AJ Styles/Daniels/Samoa Joe and the Rock/Austin packs on download at the minute which should keep me busy for a while


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll probably watch the Foley doc tonight aswell. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/mankind-mick-foleystandard-edition-p-11741.html


Thanks + rep.


Impressive list, very nice.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can't wait to finally see thaw Power Hour 1991 match with Sting, never seen it.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Just watched the Foley documentary. Holy shit this is AWESOME. So much footage I didn't know they had. As a Foley mark they actually surpassed my expectations. I'll put it in spoilers just because...well, don't want to ruin the content for people.



Spoiler: Mankind DVD



The clips from AWA and his stint in WCW were just fantastic. :mark: Just a totally, utterly unhinged character and he was literally flying all over the place. I'd really like to obtain a collection of his matches from the late 80s. The WCW parts I've mostly seen before but were documented and assembled together in a way that really made the Cactus Jack character shine. His matches with Vader were just vicious. Nice to see comments from the big man as well, together with Shane Douglas and Arn Anderson.

Had a HUGE laugh at the list of ideas for ring names they had for him in the WWF. ODDMAN, FALSE FACE, NORMAN NO EAR, ERIC EARGONE, EAR-MAN, HELMUT, THE MAD KRIMMER (?) amongst others. :lmao DAT WWF CREATIVE TEAM. Early Mankind vignettes were PERFECT.

Really glad they gave a lot of time to the Mind Games with Shawn Michaels. A definite ***** match barring the botched finished, but still they managed to pull that off. Really enjoyed the way they talked about Mankind's slow babyface turn after those legendary sit-down interviews with Jim Ross. I think it was around this time as a kid in 1997 that I realised Foley would be my favourite. This of course culminated in the epic debut of Dude Love, just one of the finest feel good moments in the history of wrestling.

One of my favourite moments is when Dude Love is on the screen interviewing Mankind, and he goes to give him a high five but moves his hand at the last minute 'haha you're toooo slow!' 'I think I am thinking what you think I think you're thinking!' :lmao :lmao Gets me EVERY time. 

Bit disappointed they didn't show even one clip of his 'Well I gave you Cactus Jack' promo where he shits on the fans, or the feud with Steve Austin in the back-to-back matches as Dude Love. That was soon forgotten as they went straight to the GOAT match the HIAC with Undertaker. Still my favourite match of all time. That first fall and the look on his face when he gets up to climb the cage afterwards is spellbinding. JR: 'I'm not dead yet. I'm not done.'

Mankind in late 1998 was HILARIOUS. Big Show said it best that he was a purveyor of both the intensity and calculated violence but also provided the bulk of the humour and entertainment. The clip where Vince is knocking on the door of the boiler room I admit I've never seen before, but made me guffaw heartily. 'Who is iiiit? Welcome to my humble abode.' :lol

I will come out and say that I've never been a _massive _ fan of the Mr. Socko stuff, but I think it's an added part of the character that gave Mankind that extra charm and just made the fans love him even more. The feud with The Rock rightfully got a lot of time because it all led up to that deafening pop when he won the WWF title with a little help from Austin. The 'I Quit' match was just brutal and quite unnecessary for obvious reasons. I can see that Foley did exactly what he did for The Rock as he did for Triple H - putting him over giving him that vicious mean streak that would make him a legit threat competitively at the time.

Rock N Sock Connection of course everybody knows about. Just such a fantastic comedic duo. Primarily because the WWF actually just sat back and let them do their own thing. Note to WWE: How about doing this nowadays? It would actually enhance things for the better you know...

The rest of the stuff has been well documented with the feud with Triple H; his return at Wrestlemania which he felt was unnecessary; coming back as Commissioner and his golden segments with Edge and Christian; the feuds with Orton, Edge etc. Just top, top moments.

Just a fantastic documentary. Safe to say it's my new favourite and I don't think it will ever be surpassed.



Tonight I shall watch the matches, ooooooh yeah.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Why dosen't anyone garner love for the terrific Foley/Funk No Holds Barred match that happened on RAW in 1998. ****1/4 in my book and a definite shoe in, if i ever did a top 10 RAW matches of all time.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Why dosen't anyone garner love for the terrific Foley/Funk No Holds Barred match that happened on RAW in 1998. ****1/4 in my book and a definite shoe in, if i ever did a top 10 RAW matches of all time.


Oh believe me I got a LOT of love for that match. Just an all out brawl between two best friends. The commentary from Austin added to the brilliance as well. Definite Top 10.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IMO it's only a matter of years for the majority of people to look back on Punk/Cena from this year as a top 5 RAW match ever, I already have it penciled in as my best and it honestly JUST HAPPENED. There's just something about that match man, I felt that when it comes to rating Punk/Cena that the ratings shoot the fuck up when you pretend the other ones never happened . People like to diss the shit out of it because "LOL CENA BOTCH" or "WE'VE SEEN DIS BEFORE", but they forget that this is professional wrestling and that we've seen practically everything before, so get the fuck over it and just enjoy an awesome match when you're seeing one. I mean, Bret-KID and Owen-Davey are both up there when it comes to top RAW matches (Bret-KID gets more love from me than most people tend to give it for sure) but I just think that with Punk-Cena we got a Wrestlemania main event quality match on free TV, and I'll guaran-damn-tee something right now ; if that Punk-Cena match is in the main event of Wrestlemania and not in the main event of RAW, we see people throwing five stars at it and maybe even putting it above the MITB clash.

Everybody should also check out the 1/17/11 & 8/22/11 Punk Cena matches, *** 3/4 & **** respectively. It might have been the summer of Punk, but that didn't stop Cena from putting off a bunch of fucking AWESOME matches such as the summer Punk trilogy and the absolutely fucking epic Mysterio match.

Also figured that I would warn anybody out there who ever wanted to watch Team Cena vs Team Big Show @ Survivor Series 2006 ; that match is fucking AWFUL. I mean absolutely AWFUL and one of the worst traditional Survivor Series tags ever. Seems like everything they fucking did was to get LASHLEY of all people over, BOBBY FUCKING LASHLEY. We'll gauge Cena as of right now compared to Cena in 2007 when we see what he can do with a completely awful Ryback on PPV, just like he dragged a four star match out of Bobby Lashley somehow in 2007. Lashley DOES indeed have an athletic background though, so that really helps him, unlike Ryback.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so I decided to wake up this morning and watch Punk/cena for summerslam 11 as it was the only one of that series I havent seen and a while. I have to give it a ***1/2 good match just the other ppv encounters and their most recent raw match blow it out of the water. Idk its just too slow, it picks up then it slows again. In the begin it takes them like 5 minutes to get anything going as their play up the cm punk/cena chants but it just never really gets going.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Dopesick said:


> Oh believe me I got a LOT of love for that match. Just an all out brawl between two best friends. The commentary from Austin added to the brilliance as well. Definite Top 10.


(Y) (Y) (Y), Brilliant match indeedy. 



KingOfKings said:


> IMO it's only a matter of years for the majority of people to look back on Punk/Cena from this year as a top 5 RAW match ever, I already have it penciled in as my best and it honestly JUST HAPPENED. There's just something about that match man, I felt that when it comes to rating Punk/Cena that the ratings shoot the fuck up when you pretend the other ones never happened . People like to diss the shit out of it because "LOL CENA BOTCH" or "WE'VE SEEN DIS BEFORE", but they forget that this is professional wrestling and that we've seen practically everything before, so get the fuck over it and just enjoy an awesome match when you're seeing one. I mean, Bret-KID and Owen-Davey are both up there when it comes to top RAW matches (Bret-KID gets more love from me than most people tend to give it for sure) but I just think that with Punk-Cena we got a Wrestlemania main event quality match on free TV, and I'll guaran-damn-tee something right now ; if that Punk-Cena match is in the main event of Wrestlemania and not in the main event of RAW, we see people throwing five stars at it and maybe even putting it above the MITB clash.
> 
> Everybody should also check out the 1/17/11 & 8/22/11 Punk Cena matches, *** 3/4 & **** respectively. It might have been the summer of Punk, but that didn't stop Cena from putting off a bunch of fucking AWESOME matches such as the summer Punk trilogy and the absolutely fucking epic Mysterio match.


Punk/Cena still won't touch TLC IV, Jeff/Taker, Cactus/Helmsley, Funk/Foley etc. So *sticks tongue out* to you.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> (Y) (Y) (Y), Brilliant match indeedy.
> 
> 
> 
> Punk/Cena *IS FAR SUPERIOR TO* TLC IV, Jeff/Taker, Cactus/Helmsley, Funk/Foley etc. So *sticks tongue out* to you.


Fixed.

& I ADORE Cactus/Hunter.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Fixed.
> 
> & I ADORE Cactus/Hunter.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ I would put bret/kid over cena/punk though imo
anyways cena/punk ppv series after rewatches
mitb *****
noc ****1/2
ss 11 ***3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have no problem with anybody putting Owen/Davey or Bret/Kid above Punk/Cena as the greatest RAW match ever. Anything I have in the ***** 1/4* to ***** 1/2* range I have no problem with anybody calling it the greatest RAW match ever believe it or not. Just get the fuck out of here with that Angle vs Benoit cage shit.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I have no problem with anybody putting Owen/Davey or Bret/Kid above Punk/Cena as the greatest RAW match ever. Anything I have in the ***** 1/4* to ***** 1/2* range I have no problem with anybody calling it the greatest RAW match ever believe it or not. Just get the fuck out of here with that Angle vs Benoit cage shit.


You should watch TLC IV, It's the only ***** TLC and RAW match ever, and it really defines the words "CARNAGE" "DEVESTATION" and "DESTRUCTION" in a TLC match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

5 stars ? interesting should give it a watch


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Saw it a few times already. 4 out of 10.

In all seriousness though, I'd probably throw four stars or close to four stars at it, great match and better than TLC II but doesn't touch I or III in the slightest.

TLC III is pretty much the best TLC match for me, love that fucker so much. I'm looking through the TLC match list now and I have to say that there really hasn't been a BAD TLC match at all(besides Edge-Taker, that match is truly awful). Sure, some of them have been ridiculously underwhelming spotfests like Edge/Cena or a little on the dull side like JeriShow-DX, but for the most part there are thirteen out of fourteen TLC matches that are average - FUCKING AWESOME.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

This pisses me off, where's Hayley when you need him, He'll back me up on this. Some MOFO even had the nerve to throw ***1/2 stars at it, Like what the fuck, dude?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You know, I've never actually seen that Taker/Edge TLC match lol, why is it so bad?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Contrived spots galore that you could see coming even when you're watching it live.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

The Foley doc is good. Having read a lot of his writing, and being a huge fan of his career, it didn't cover much that I wasn't aware of, but it was really nice to see the story all wrapped up. It's definitely one of the best documentaries WWE have produced. A heart-warming tale filled with fascinating moments and great interviews. It's always great to hear legends like Regal, Funk and Vader give their view as well. 

Regal, in particular, brings a level of credibility to anything he says that is almost unparalleled (in my mind). When I hear him talk about how much he respects someone, it always comes across as genuine, and a compliment of the highest order.

Hearing Foley end on a CURB reference was a true delight.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Contrived spots galore that you could see coming even when you're watching it live.


Well, 95% of TLC matches have contrived and predictable spots, I don't really see the problem here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I COMPLETELY disagree with that statement.

Sometimes you think "yeah, there's going to be a spot here", but with Taker/Edge you could essentially call who was going to take every bump until Taker took the last huge one (which is worth watching the entire match for believe it or not, crazy fucker), especially that last ride spot.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Part of what made SHIELD vs Hell No/Ryback TLC so great was that all the spots made sense. Maybe it helps not having to climb a ladder for a belt. :side:


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Just finished watching the foley doc, good stuff. His story is really inspirational and it covered his career quiet well which was great. Are the matches from the dvd worth watching guys?

Btw watching some matches from stone cold the bottom line on the most popular superstar of all time. Dropping some star ratings:

Stunning Steve Austin & Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat & Sting WCW Saturday Night Main Event - ****1/4 

Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart WM 13 I quit match - ***** 

saw the i quit match after a LONG time and I completely changed my take on it, I was gripped from start to finish and it was just the perfect match. Definitely one of the greatest matches of all time


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I COMPLETELY disagree with that statement.
> 
> Sometimes you think "yeah, there's going to be a spot here", but with Taker/Edge you could essentially call who was going to take every bump until Taker took the last huge one (which is worth watching the entire match for believe it or not, crazy fucker), especially that last ride spot.


I think all the fast pacing, carnage and destruction in TLC IV make up for a few contrivers, here and there. In this TLC match exclusively, the spots were destroyed even before you have to time to dicate their level of predictability.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

GOATAntics said:


> (Y) (Y) (Y), Brilliant match indeedy.
> 
> 
> 
> Punk/Cena still won't touch TLC IV, *Jeff/Taker*, Cactus/Helmsley, Funk/Foley etc. So *sticks tongue out* to you.


As uncharacteristically superb as Hardy was in it, I don't see it being close to Punk/Cena which is an easy 4.5 stars compared to Hardy/'Taker which I'd put as a lower 4.25. Reviewed it last week.



The Lady Killer said:


> Part of what made SHIELD vs Hell No/Ryback TLC so great was that all the spots made sense. Maybe it helps not having to climb a ladder for a belt. :side:


Completely agreed. Both cage and ladder matches can have such banal logic within their concepts at times.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Rah said:


> As uncharacteristically superb as Hardy was in it, I don't see it being close to Punk/Cena which is an easy 4.5 stars compared to Hardy/'Taker which I'd put as a lower 4.25. Reviewed it last week.


The psychology/storytelling is GRADE B and then the huge plus of Jeff's babyface performance puts it over the top for me. Cena/Punk as far as my mind was working, had barley (if not) any psychology/storytelling in the mix but was better in a wrestling sense, though Jeff/Taker was still pretty good in the wrestling sense and had great psychology/storytelling. 

To each to his own though, It's all opinion based.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena/Punk had no storytelling?

Cena could never beat Punk when there was anything on the line, EVER. He's tried AA'ing the fucker a million times, locking him in the STF, pretty much every move in his arsenal to try and take him out to no avail. Following up on their NOC match, Punk has also found it damn near impossible to take Cena down for the 3 count. Everything's on the line this time and there can only be one winner ; they start off with their standard stuff and when it doesn't work, both men realize that they need to bust out new stuff if they want to go to Wrestlemania and ultimately conquer the other one. I think the use of the piledriver by Punk really sealed this match for me as well as the CENA-CURRANA, as it really sold me on both men trying whatever they can in order to when the match. Essentially it was the culmination of nearly two years of evolution from both men and their matches put into one AWESOME bridge into all out Mania season.

It has dashes and callbacks to all of the big Punk-Cena match ups as well as some really good false finishes to go along with the awesome storytelling that had been going on. Personally, I loved Cena's burst into the ring at the nine count as it created a moment where we thought the match was legitimately going to end, something that's getting increasingly hard to do in Punk-Cena matches.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

> Everything's on the line this time and there can only be one winner ; they start off with their standard stuff and when it doesn't work, both men realize that they need to bust out new stuff if they want to go to Wrestlemania and ultimately conquer the other one. I think the use of the piledriver by Punk really sealed this match for me as well as the CENA-CURRANA, as it really sold me on both men trying whatever they can in order to when the match. Essentially it was the culmination of nearly two years of evolution from both men and their matches put into one AWESOME bridge into all out Mania season.


That's your general purpose of every match though, both wrestlers will do anything to win. Jeff/Taker even executed that central psychology/storytelling platform better with the challenger (Jeff) making himself look under-estimable, the champion then (Taker) falls for it and the challenger ambitiously takes advantage of that mistake. 



> Personally, I loved Cena's burst into the ring at the nine count as it created a moment where we thought the match was legitimately going to end, something that's getting increasingly hard to do in Punk-Cena matches.


That disrupted the whole flow of the match, Cena can't play with the 10 count at all. Taker/Shawn WM25 is how it should be done, not bursting into the ring like a maniac that disregards the very definition of "selling" and acting hurt/injured.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I have Hardy/Taker on Raw at a ***** star match. Honestly, it's just brilliance for a TV match. It's the kinda match that makes one's career. Hardy is known for sick bumps but he took a beating and just kept coming. He's one of those guys where he does his best work getting his ass kicked, similar to Foley.

Cena/Punk on Raw was a really good match, I have at ****1/4 stars it could easily be **** 1/2 they have great chemistry in the ring but I never want to see Cena's botchrana ever again.. it reeks arrogant bullshit.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Vince's best matches? :vince5


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

His match with HBK bar none imo.

I also really like his match against Hogan and the match with Taker where he's busted open big time.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

vs/ Trips Amageddon 99

DAT SWERVE.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The match with Taker is underrated big time, It's brutal though, even makes you feel like their is legit beef between the two. 

Link if you wanna watch it.
http://www.myspace.com/video/brando...es-2003-mr-mcmahon-vs-the-undertaker/47690954


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Vince -

vs HHH - Armageddon 99
vs HBK - WM22
vs Hogan - WM19
and of course vs Bret Hart at WM26

:troll


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

For the blood alone the Zach Gowen match was good. Vince bled like a faucet and it wasn't that far into the match either.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I have no problem with anybody putting Owen/Davey or Bret/Kid above Punk/Cena as the greatest RAW match ever. Anything I have in the ***** 1/4* to ***** 1/2* range I have no problem with anybody calling it the greatest RAW match ever believe it or not. Just get the fuck out of here with that Angle vs Benoit cage shit.


Angle vs Benoit from the cage is ★★★★ for me. Same rating for Cena/Punk although it can go up if I watch it again, specially since the right guy finally won.

That diving headbutt from top of the cage > everything else


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Anyone have a link to punk vs cena MITB? I have to watch this match I haven't seen or heard of a single person disliking it yet. I have to watch it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Creating the War Games

War Games Match
The Super Powers (Dusty Rhodes, The Road Warriors, Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering) vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard & J.J. Dillon)
Great American Bash – Atlanta, GA • July 4, 1987

Great American Bash On Tour

War Games Match
Dusty Rhodes, The Road Warriors, Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard) & The War Machine
Great American Bash – Miami, FL • July 31, 1987

A Different Type of Animal

Tower of Doom Match
The Road Warriors, “Dr. Death” Steve Williams, Ron Garvin & Jimmy Garvin vs. Kevin Sullivan, Mike Rotunda, Al Perez, Russian Assassin & Ivan Koloff
Great American Bash • July 10, 1988

Brutality

War Games Match
Dusty Rhodes, Lex Luger, Nikita Koloff, “Dr. Death” Steve Williams & Paul Ellering vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard & J.J. Dillon)
Great American Bash Tour – Greensboro, NC • July 16, 1988

Live Events

War Games Match
The Road Warriors, The Midnight Express & “Dr. Death” Steve Williams vs. The Fabulous Freebirds & The Samoan Swat Team
Great American Bash • July 23, 1989



DISC 2


Getting Replaced

War Games Match
The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Sid Vicious, Barry Windham & Larry Zbyszko) vs. Sting, Brian Pillman, & The Steiner Brothers
WCW WrestleWar • February 24, 1991

Talent Change

War Games Match
Sting’s Squadron (Sting, Nikita Koloff, Dustin Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat & Barry Windham) vs. The Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Steve Austin, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude)
WCW WrestleWar • May 17, 1992

The Almighty Dollar

War Games Match
Sting, Davey Boy Smith, Dustin Rhodes & The Shockmaster vs. Sid Vicious, Vader & Harlem Heat
WCW Fall Brawl • September 19, 1993

A Really Special Night

War Games Match
Dusty Rhodes, Dustin Rhodes & The Nasty Boys vs. Terry Funk, Arn Anderson, Bunkhouse Buck & Colonel Robert Parker
WCW Fall Brawl • September 18, 1994



DISC 3


Pride in Their Product

War Games Match
The Hulkamaniacs (Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Lex Luger & Sting) vs. The Dungeon of Doom (Kamala the Ugandan Giant, The Zodiac, The Shark & Meng)
WCW Fall Brawl • September 17, 1995

Glimmer of a Fire

War Games Match 
Team nWo (“Hollywood” Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash & A Mystery Partner) vs. Team WCW (Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Lex Luger & Sting)
WCW Fall Brawl • September 15, 1996

Pulling Out Every Stop

War Games Match 
Team nWo (Kevin Nash, Buff Bagwell, Syxx & Konnan) vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Steve McMichael, Chris Benoit & Curt Hennig)
WCW Fall Brawl • September 14, 1997

The Talent Made The War Games

War Games Match
Team WCW (Diamond Dallas Page, Roddy Piper & The Warrior) vs. Team Hollywood (“Hollywood” Hulk Hogan, Stevie Ray & Bret Hart) vs. Team Wolfpac (Kevin Nash, Sting & Lex Luger)
WCW Fall Brawl • September 13, 1998

The End of the War Games

War Games 2000 Match 
Sting, Booker T, Goldberg & KroniK vs. Kevin Nash, Jeff Jarrett, Scott Steiner & The Harris Brothers
WCW Monday Nitro • September 4, 2000

The Main Event

BLU-RAY EXCLUSIVES
Rage in the Cage Match
Brian Lee, Jimmy Golden, Ricky Morton, Robert Fuller & Robert Gibson vs. Kevin Sullivan, Killer Kyle, The Tazmaniac , Stan Lane & Tom Prichard
Smoky Mountain Wrestling: Volunteer Slam II • May 9, 1993

Ultimate Jeopardy Steel Cage Match
Tommy Dreamer, Public Enemy & The Pitbulls vs. Raven, Stevie Richards, The Eliminators & The Heavenly Bodies
ECW December to Dismember • December 9, 1995

Ultimate Jeopardy Steel Cage Match
Buh Buh Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley & Mustafa Saed vs. New Jack, Axl Rotten & Balls Mahoney
ECW CyberSlam • April 3, 1999

War Games Fantasy Booking with Dusty Rhodes

YAY for no shitty New Jack matches making it onto the DVD and only the Blu Ray.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena/Punk - MITB 2011
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkn0g4_wwe-money-in-the-bank-2011-cm-punk-vs-john-cena_sport


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm watching mind games right now and lol @ dat hbk promo before the match. dude﻿ was high as shit it seems. :hbk


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Anyone else have the thought of when a specific match happens and it's in the favor of a certain wrestler the most, It's their match and not the opponent's. The prime example being Cena/Punk MITB, It's Punk's moment, It's his match, It's all about him, that's why i don't list it as Cena's best match before it dosen't center around him and sway to the Umaga LMS, Brock ER and HBK RAW 2007 listings. Um, not exactly the best context but try to understand.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOATAntics said:


> This pisses me off, where's Hayley when you need him, He'll back me up on this. Some MOFO even had the nerve to throw ***1/2 stars at it, Like what the fuck, dude?


Someone gave TLC IV ***1/2? Let me at em, I'll tear them apart!

Because it's only ***1/4 and nothing more! 

TLC Matches:

13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
11. DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 - **1/2
10. CM Punk Vs Alberto Del Rio Vs The Miz - TLC XII TLC 2011 - **1/2
09. John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 - ***
08. Bubba & Spike Vs Kane & Hurricane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 - ***1/4
07. CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009 - ***1/2
06. Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010 - ***1/2
05. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 01/04/2001 - ***1/2
04. Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
03. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I SummerSlam 2000 - ****1/4
02. The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012 - ****1/4
01. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001 - ****1/2

WARGAMES set looks fine... until you get to the third disc and Bluray extras .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Big Z said:


> *Someone gave TLC IV ***1/2? Let me at em, I'll tear them apart!
> 
> Because it's only ***1/4 and nothing more! *
> 
> ...


VINTAGE CAL :cole3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched WM29 - Ratings for the Main Events:

Taker/Punk - ****1/4

HHH/Brock - ***1/2 - Brock was a fucking beast as we all know, that entrance with the hat on, man looked badass, id run several miles if he was coming into the ring, problem was Trips, sorry HHH marks, but he should just call it a day, just does nothing IMO, adds nothing, i enjoyed most of Brock's control stuff, its just Trips is not his right opponont, but hey we are getting a fucking THIRD match lol.

Loved the F5 on HBK too though.

Rock/Cena - Spoiler need as its a long as review:



Spoiler: match review



It was crap



War Games Set, definite buy for me, Discs 1 and 2 look ace. Luckily this time the BD extras are shit lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Someone gave TLC IV ***1/2? Let me at em, I'll tear them apart!
> 
> Because it's only ***1/4 and nothing more!


I thought you were better than that Cal, I truly thought. :sad:


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^^yeah I understand completely. Wrestlemania 13 is austin best match to me while bretts would be vs owen wrestlemania 10
Wrestlemania 25 is hbk best match imo and Wrestlemania 26 is takers.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> ^^^yeah I understand completely. Wrestlemania 13 is austin best match to me while bretts would be vs owen wrestlemania 10
> Wrestlemania 25 is hbk best match imo and Wrestlemania 26 is takers.


Yea, that's where i'm getting at, thanks for actually replying. Unlike most of the douchebags in this forum, *cough* KOK *cough* Cal *cough*. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh hai shiny ban button, how you doing? 



Might stick in HIAC 2011 Bluray later, wanna check out Henry/Orton. Haven't seen it since it aired. Hopefully it isn't disappointing like their NOC match was the other day for me. Still good, but not as good as I remembered it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

GOATAntics said:


> Anyone else have the thought of when a specific match happens and it's in the favor of a certain wrestler the most, It's their match and not the opponent's. The prime example being Cena/Punk MITB, It's Punk's moment, It's his match, It's all about him, that's why i don't list it as Cena's best match before it dosen't center around him


I can see what you're saying here but I personally thought Cena's performance in that match was just a bit better than Punk. Both excelled with their chemistry. I just totally dug Cena's nuances (he's pretty good at being "heelish" I guess in these face vs face matches), and his selling of the knee looked legit. I personally have it in their Top 2-5 best WWE matches, respectively. I'd probably have Punk/Bryan OTL and Brock/Cena ER as their #1 which is funny both taking place last year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HIAC 2011 since it's been thrown around:

Sheamus/Christian: ***
Cara/Hunico: 1/2*
Air Boom/ZiggSwagg: **3/4
Henry/Orton: ***
Cody/Morrison: **1/2
Kelly/Beth: 1/4*
Cena/Punk/ADR: ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

VINTAGE CAL.  4 OUT OF 10... BING IT!

Anyways, probably won't pick up the War Games set until someone in here reviews it. Already own '91 and '92 on DVD (which are the best of the gimmick) & there's the '96 one on the Rise & Fall of WCW plus the '88 one on Flair & The Four Horseman, so I'm in no rush. Not to mention the blu ray extras look like ASS.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ratings on any War Games matches? never seen any :$


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Clique said:


> I can see what you're saying here but I personally thought Cena's performance in that match was just a bit better than Punk. Both excelled with their chemistry. I just totally dug Cena's nuances (he's pretty good at be "heelish" I guess in these face vs face matches), and his selling of the knee looked legit. I personally have it in their Top 2-5 best WWE matches, respectively. I'd probably have Punk/Bryan OTL and Brock/Cena ER as their #1 which is funny both taking place last year.


It's not about in-ring action per say, It's more about the crowd, the setting and how Cena was playing second fiddle to the McMahon-Punk feud, There is even very little air-time of him in the video package.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Ratings on any War Games matches? never seen any :$


Wrestlewar '91 - **** 1/4
Wrestlewar '92 - **** 1/2

A lot of people consider both matches to be among the best in WCW history and rate them even higher. The '91 version is on the Brian Pillman: Loose Cannon set. '92 is a first time release.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Ever Wolf said:


> Ratings on any War Games matches? never seen any :$


91 - ****3/4
92 - *****
94 - ***1/4

Avoid watching 1998 at all costs. Lol WCW.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Cena vs Punk from Raw two months ago. A great match and still a ★★★★ for me. KOK is too busy marking out for both so he overrates everything they do including that dull, lifeless MITB rehash that is SummerSlam. This started a little slow with too much restholds but after the second commercial break, really picks up in its pace and both men give it their best until Cena comes out on top with a second FU. Great counters, crowd, nearfalls, submission exchanges and everything. That Piledriver, in particular, was awesome. But yeah, not _that_ great to me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've only seen five War Games matches. Does anyone recommend any of the matches before 1989?

GAB 1989 ******
WrestleWar 1991 *****1/2*
WrestleWar 1992 *****1/4* (I just don't get it V_V)
Fall Brawl 1996 ***1/2*
Fall Brawl 1998 *What is this trash?*


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^^ mystery just repped you because your sig is complete ownage as I like to say its awepic


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I'll have some WarGames 87 reviews out in a week or two. Obviously it'll probably be null by then, but I've read great things about them. I prefered 91 to 92 when I watched it a fair while ago. Pillman performance.

Think only Woolcock has seen this match, maybe 1-2 others, but I'll throw it around, see if others feel temptation to watch it. I originally watched Funk/Lawler 03/21/81 like, 4-5 days ago. I originally thought 'meh, it was alright'. I felt their aggression came in too soon after a start I didn't dig, and turned into a punchfest which felt like it lacked substance, despite having the Funk forehead bite seal of approval. So on the rewatch, thought, hmm, alright, I can see and feel their intensity a bit more. It starts to come alive the more you gaze into the match. Snatches you out when Funk starts to work on Lawler's leg, then feels like it all turns into darkness when Lawler gets the victory in that manner. In amongst it all, you feel it's well paced out, match is set up in the manner it needed to be. But I can't help but feel that I want more from it. More vicious punches, despite Lawler having one of the best hooks I've seen, and Funk showing the hatred you want to see from him. For what the match was, they did the best performance. Hard to rate, maybe ****, I guess. Another watch in a few days will suffice, seems to be like a wine that ages well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished watching Cena vs Punk from Raw two months ago. A great match and still a ★★★★ for me. KOK is too busy marking out for both so he overrates everything they do including that dull, lifeless MITB rehash that is SummerSlam. This started a little slow with too much restholds but after the second commercial break, really picks up in its pace and both men give it their best until Cena comes out on top with a second FU. Great counters, crowd, nearfalls, submission exchanges and everything. That Piledriver, in particular, was awesome. But yeah, not _that_ great to me.


this, how do you rank the their other matches


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Punk from Raw should only be watched without the breaks. The video that WWE put on their YT page had it, i downloaded in case they took it off


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

did they take it down though ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still don't comprehend how somebody could NOT enjoy that Summerslam match. It's essentially a better worked version of the MITB encounter except not as deep with the storytelling and without the huge atmosphere due to the Staples Center being fucking garbage.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> they took it down though right ?


No idea, i downloaded it before they could.

Cena/Punk from Summerslam is one of their weaker efforts to be fair but it's still very good. Fuck that ending, Del Rio ruining summer 2011.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Del Rio ruins everything


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^yea they did ss11 is their weakest ppv match by far but its a ***3/4


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KOK, Your gonna wanna see this, click the link.
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...n-cena-has-proven-he-better-than-rock-10.html


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOATantics: You are talking shit!



redskins25 said:


> this, how do you rank the their other matches


MITB is definitely the best and I have it at ★★★★½. Their Raw #1 contender match after SummerSlam is their next best, on par with Night of Champions at ★★★¾. Everything else is just there to me.



KingOfKings said:


> I still don't comprehend how somebody could NOT enjoy that Summerslam match. It's essentially a better worked version of the MITB encounter except not as deep with the storytelling and without the huge atmosphere due to the Staples Center being fucking garbage.


Don't you mean a boring rehash? I almost fell asleep when I watched it a second time since its original airing date. It may not have the sloppy moments of MITB but it still felt like a rehash with them doing the same thing, only big difference being Triple H's involvement and the lack of screwjobs. (barring the finish which was just a cheap excuse to prevent Cena from losing clean)

★★½ for that match. And I used to have it at ★★★★ first. How wrong I turned out to be.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

KOK gonna go HAM on that thread


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't enter threads about The Rock due to the sheer lack of intelligence displayed in a majority of them.

When Del Rio and Rock were the World Champions, I felt like putting a bullet through my skull as a wrestling fan. Thankfully the WWE has cleansed their wrongs by putting the titles on two individuals who rightfully deserve them.

Most of The Rock's diehard marks on here (usually with something pertaining to The Rock in their username, not guys like STARBUCK and the like) have the collective IQ of a snail, so I'm not wasting my time arguing with individuals who are just going to use RATINGZ and DRAW discussions to back up their points.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea not even the biggest cena fan but even I got to laugh at some of those comments. please dont bring up del rio reign still have nightmares


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Just finished the Foley doc.

Officially my favourite WWE doc of all time. Got to love Foley for everything hes done for the business. Comes across great and the guys talking about just show how respected he is. HHH was great in this as was Regal. Vader was awesome as well.

Looking forward to going through the matches now.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

At least tell'em why Cena/Brock is superior to anything The Rock's ever done. Your wide use of vocabulary and sentence flow would mean instant burial, Oh and pretty please.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Phil_Mc_90 said:


> Just finished the Foley doc.
> 
> Officially my favourite WWE doc of all time. Got to love Foley for everything hes done for the business. Comes across great and the guys talking about just show how respected he is. HHH was great in this as was Regal. Vader was awesome as well.
> 
> Looking forward to going through the matches now.


Trips and his collar had me laughing every time he was on screen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/HHH:

Summerslam 2012 - ***3/4 

WM29 - ***1/2

Lets see what they do in a cage eh, although im not expecting much, esp from Trips.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I still don't comprehend how somebody could NOT enjoy that Summerslam match. It's essentially a better worked version of the MITB encounter except not as deep with the storytelling and without the huge atmosphere due to the Staples Center being fucking garbage.


I'm with you. I actually like it better than Money in the Bank to watch back


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Punk vs cena MITB ****1/2 a fucking awesome match I've known the results of the match for nearly 2 years and was still sucked into the near falls. Can't believe it' took so long for me to see it.

Cena punk series
NOC ****1/4
RAW ****1/4
Summerslam ****


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I have two WWE matches at 5* so far,

Cena/Punk- MITB 11 and the greatest wrestling match of all time imo Shawn Michaels/Undertaker WM 26.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> I have two WWE matches at 5* so far,
> 
> Cena/Punk- MITB 11 and the greatest wrestling match of all time imo Shawn Michaels/Undertaker WM 26.


what about austin/bret from wm 13? imo the greatest match of all time and it made austin the star that he eventually became, it also kicked off the attitude era. It had technical wrestling, hardcore wrestling, brawling, psychology, story telling and an organic ending that set up a double turn. I don't think we're going to see such an amazing match ever again. ********* classic. 

HBK/Taker Bad Blood 1997 Hell In A cell is also up there as one of the goat matches 

Cena/Punk and HBK/Taker are both amazing matches but In my opinion I don't think they compare to those two matches I listed. I guess it's just a matter of opinion though, I haven't seen cena/punk in ages.

My 5 star match list from the top of my head:

Austin/Bret WM 13
HBK/Taker BB 97
HBK/Taker WM 25
Benoit/Angle RR 03
Cactus Jack/HHH RR 00
Mankind/HBK mindgames
Bret/Owen WM 10
HHH/HBK/Benoit WM 20
Brock/Cena ER 12
HHH/Taker WM 28
Angle/Austin SS 01
Triangle Ladder Match WM 17


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Am I the only one who still has HBK/Undertaker HIAC over both Mania matches?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nope.

It's the greatest match of all time.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm rating these 5* because i've seen them recently and can vouch that i think they are perfect matches. I have a lot of matches to rewatch including the ones you just listed, it's been so long that i can't say they are 5*.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cookie Monster said:


> Am I the only one who still has HBK/Undertaker HIAC over both Mania matches?


I have it over WM26. 

Used to have it over both until I did a re-watch of all the matches on my list (so far). Taker/HBK WM25 is untouchable imo.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> Am I the only one who still has HBK/Undertaker HIAC over both Mania matches?


nope its my favorite match of all time, just a brilliant match.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm glad you guys agree. I only have 2 matches at ***** and they are Austin/Bret and HBK/Taker HIAC.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> I'm glad you guys agree. I only have 2 matches at ***** and they are Austin/Bret and HBK/Taker HIAC.


The two greatest matches of all time


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> Am I the only one who still has HBK/Undertaker HIAC over both Mania matches?


I love it of course, but I still have the WM25 match over it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have the HIAC match above every other match in existence .


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Found a cool website that has a lot of dvd's in full hd uploaded onto dailymotion (includes extra's and matches). 

Is the stone cold the bottom line on the most popular superstar worth watching? I've seen a few stone cold doc's in the past so just wondering if it's worth the time


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

I also would have HBK/HHH/Benoit from WM20 at ***** - Definitely the greatest Triple Threat match of all time.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

debating whether to watch the shawn michaels story or stone cold the bottom line on the most popular superstar of all time.

Which one do you guys think I should watch first ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HWRP said:


> Found a cool website that has a lot of dvd's in full hd uploaded onto dailymotion (includes extra's and matches).
> 
> Is the stone cold the bottom line on the most popular superstar worth watching? I've seen a few stone cold doc's in the past so just wondering if it's worth the time


One of the longest and best the company has ever produced.

So yes. 

Shawn's is shorter so just watch that first I guess.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

HBK/Undertaker HIAC and Mania 25 both ***** for me

Foley/HHH RR 2000, Foley/HBK Mindgames and HBK/Benoit/HHH Mania XX would also make the ***** class for me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

your not the only one I have hiac above the 25- 26 also
cena/punk mitb is the best of their series and a legit 5*match
my five star matches
hbk/taker hiac
hbk /taker wm 26
angle/benoit rr 03
savage/steamboat wm 3
hbk/y2j wm 19
hhh/taker wm 28


----------



## JBL_Wrestling_God (Mar 18, 2008)

HBK\Undertaker HIAC 1997 Bad Blood is still to this day the greatest match I've ever seen. The storytelling of the match, the timing of the match, Kane's debut and the eventual storylines that the match led to (Kane vs Taker & Montreal Screwjob) and most importantly the bumps Shawn was taken and both men being in there prime.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> your not the only one I have hiac above the 25- 26 also
> cena/punk mitb is the best of their series and a legit 5*match
> my five star matches
> hbk/taker hiac
> ...


no love for bret/austin wm 13?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

vk79 said:


> I also would have HBK/HHH/Benoit from WM20 at ***** - Definitely the greatest Triple Threat match of all time.


That's my pick for the best wrestling match of all time. 

There are absolutely NO flaws with this match. The story being told during and after the match really puts it over the top.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> no love for bret/austin wm 13?


you know man I never seen it and I have looked everywhere for it. I saw your post earlier and was going to ask is that stone dvd on netflix ?


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> you know man I never seen it and I have looked everywhere for it. I saw your post earlier and was going to ask is that stone dvd on netflix ?


I pm'ed you the website brotha, enjoy


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

Fandango said:


> That's my pick for the best wrestling match of all time.
> 
> There are absolutely NO flaws with this match. The story being told during and after the match really puts it over the top.


Their rematch at Backlash was fantastic as well. I would probably rate that ****1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> I pm'ed you the website brotha, enjoy


good looking bro im gonna try and knock a couple pgs of this english :sad: paper down then I'm definitely watching it.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Found a cool website that has a lot of dvd's in full hd uploaded onto dailymotion (includes extra's and matches).
> 
> Is the stone cold the bottom line on the most popular superstar worth watching? I've seen a few stone cold doc's in the past so just wondering if it's worth the time


Could you pm me the site man? Beats scouring DM for matches


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Lazyking said:


> Could you pm me the site man? Beats scouring DM for matches


yeh I feel you man, messaged you the website


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

vk79 said:


> Their rematch at Backlash was fantastic as well. I would probably rate that ****1/2


Yup, the rematch is just as good in terms of ring action. I have it at ****3/4 but it's due for a rewatch.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Lazyking said:


> Could you pm me the site man? Beats scouring DM for matches


same plz


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Messaged all of you. Enjoy


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hbk and taker have the best chemistry ever 3 ***** matches a ****1/4 and an ***1/2 that's untouchable. Flair/steamboat is the best for a nin wwe rivalry imo


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Taker/ HBK series 

Ground Zero 97 - ****
Badd Blood 97 - Hell in a cell - ***** 
Rumble 98 - Casket match - ***1/2
Wrestlemania 25 - *****
Wrestlemania 26 - ****3/4 Debatable ***** 

Damn... That's chemistry...

the only series that can come close in terms of overall quality is punk and cena


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just finally finished watching Bret/stone cold wm 13 for the first time thanks to my man HWRP. and damn that was great ***** definitely, idk if its better than hbk/taker hiac or wm 26 but that a debate for another day. This match is what a brawl should be at its finest. This match has a little of everything and know I know why so many have it as the best. Epic match from start to finish


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/taker series

BB97 *****
wm 25 ****3/4 debatable 5
wm 26 *****
only seen bits and pieces of GZ and RR 08 i liked GZ in the little amount I saw of it


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> just finally finished watching Bret/stone cold wm 13 for the first time thanks to my man HWRP. and damn that was great ***** definitely, idk if its better than hbk/taker hiac or wm 26 but that a debate for another day. This match is what a brawl should be at its finest. This match has a little of everything and know I know why so many have it as the best. Epic match from start to finish


No problem bro, glad you enjoyed the match as much as I did


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/HBK:

Ground Zero 97 - N/A
Badd Blood 97 - Hell in a cell - ****3/4
Rumble 98 - Casket match - ***3/4
Wrestlemania 25 - *****
Wrestlemania 26 - ****1/2

Awesomez!


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Going to watch HBK/Angle from WM 21 soon. What do you guys think of it?


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Taker/HBK:

Ground Zero 97 - ****
Badd Blood 97 - Hell in a cell - ***** (GOAT)
Rumble 98 - Casket match - ***3/4
Wrestlemania 25 - *****
Wrestlemania 26 - ****3/4


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Going to watch HBK/Michaels from WM 21 soon. What do you guys think of it?


Seems like a classic if it could happen.

Angle/HBK is fantastic though


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK/Taker legit have the best chemistry that I can recall.

3 of their 5 matches are perfect (***** if you insist on a rating), and the other two are very good.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

oops lol angle/hbk* my bad haha


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Sheamus (c) vs. Big Show (_Hell in a Cell 2012_) - ****

Absolutely fantastic match DOMINATED by Show. Loved how none of Sheamus's comebacks came easy and Show would always stop him in his tracks. Nearfalls at the end were great and the KO punches are so fuckin good lookin. Arguably one of, if not the best match in Show's career, or at least one of his best performances.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Tim Legend said:


> Taker/ HBK series
> 
> Ground Zero 97 - ****
> Badd Blood 97 - Hell in a cell - *****
> ...


Have you seen Ric Flair's matches with Ricky Steamboat?


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Clique said:


> Have you seen Ric Flair's matches with Ricky Steamboat?


Flair and steamboat have the greatest chemistry of all time. Haven't seen their trilogy in a long time but had them all at 5 stars on my last watch, just a joy to watch. They put on a wrestling masterpiece near enough every time they went out there. Their trilogy is just out of this world


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> Going to watch HBK/Angle from WM 21 soon. What do you guys think of it?


good match, mat wresting is pretty good, some criticize hbk robotic ankles but i didnt mind, ****1/2 for me just another good ole :hbk2 classic :agree:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just finished Foley's documentary. I realized I've never seen Orton/Foley from Backlash or Edge/Foley from WM. Gotta get on those asap.

Great documentary. One of my favorites.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah Steamboat/Flair is obviously up there among the best as far as chemistry is concerned. As for strictly WWE, though, I don't think HBK/Taker can be topped.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Just finished Foley's documentary. I realized I've never seen Orton/Foley from Backlash or Edge/Foley from WM. Gotta get on those asap.
> 
> Great documentary. One of my favorites.


both are great matches, definitely worth watching. Two of the best hardcore matches in wwe history

Orton/Foley - ****1/2
Edge/Foley - ****1/2

On a side note I know this probably isn't the right thread, but does someone have a good stone cold sig? or could someone do me one. Would appreciate it


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

big fan of the flair/steamboat series, wrestlerwars being the best ****3/4 and probably flair best match


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *World Heavyweight Championship
> *Sheamus (c) vs. Big Show (_Hell in a Cell 2012_) - ****
> 
> Absolutely fantastic match DOMINATED by Show. Loved how none of Sheamus's comebacks came easy and Show would always stop him in his tracks. Nearfalls at the end were great and the KO punches are so fuckin good lookin. Arguably one of, if not the best match in Show's career, or at least one of his best performances.


I love this match. Two of my favorites going at it in a straight up FIGHT, what's not to love? The intensity that Sheamus brought to this match is unmatched by anyone. Maybe you noticed, maybe you didn't, but at the end where Sheamus was in the corner setting up for the Brogue Kick, him beating his chest that is as red as an apple with sweat pouring down his face is an image worth a thousand words.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Clique said:


> Have you seen Ric Flair's matches with Ricky Steamboat?


Of course... I was sort of just talking WWE/F but since it's all owned by Vince anyway it's whatever... 


Wrestle war is the only match I Rememer having at ***** but Probably should check out Chi town rumble again. But yeah in terms of match by match quality and chemistry they have clearly one of the best series ever. Not a match under ****. Maybe if I have time I'll do a proper comparison of both series.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fandango said:


> I love this match. Two of my favorites going at it in a straight up FIGHT, what's not to love? The intensity that Sheamus brought to this match is unmatched by anyone. Maybe you noticed, maybe you didn't, but at the end where Sheamus was in the corner setting up for the Brogue Kick, him beating his chest that is as red as an apple with sweat pouring down his face is an image worth a thousand words.


Shit! Yeah I totally forgot to mention how intense that was. Awesome touch.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I don't really like Big Show or Sheamus but I remember saying "damn that was a really good match" afterwards. I'd give it **** as well.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Big Show and Sheamus are both so criminally underrated it's not even funny. 

It's easy to hate on the Big Show because he's 41 years old, he's "fat", "slow", and should be putting more people over. But just because you're old and bigger than your average wrestler doesn't mean you can't be good. If you look past all that and analyze him as a worker, talker, and from a general wrestling stand point, then you realize that what he does is truly remarkable. Stereo-typically speaking, a man of Big Show's size should not be moving the way he does in the ring. Big Show takes a ton of bumps and is extremely agile. He is a near 20 year veteran, yet doesn't get the respect he deserves. 

Sheamus is also easy to hate on because he has had lots of success early in his career and apparently is only being booked so strongly because he works out with Triple H. And anything involving MUST be bad because hating Triple H is the cool thing to do around here. But I think the reason why Sheamus gets pushed is because he is a great talent. He has a certain aura around him that engages you into him. Whether on the mic with his thick accent or in the ring where he brings a combo of physicality and intensity that no one else on the roster possesses. 

Both guys deserve more praise. What are your thoughts on these guys?


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Love big show, think he's great. Sheamus is a great worker but I just find him really boring and uninteresting on the mic, same case with del rio. I just can't get emotionally invested into anything he does, he's just sort of "there". Not saying he's bad because he isn't, he's good but he's a bit bland. Guess that's his character not him though


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cant get myself to like a big show match at all, only one to come close is his one with del rio for the whc on smackdown at the begin of year


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I just got back from a Raw House Show there and I think I just saw the WWE Title match that's going to happen at Extreme Rules between Cena and Ryback.....TABLES MATCH! I'll tell you what though, it wasn't half bad. Ryback trying to basically murder Cena with the steps a few times made for some tense moments. Other than that though, no other match is really worth talking about because they all did the same fucking thing; play to the crowd, short spell of actual action, play some more to the crowd, play even more to the crowd, play to the crowd to the extent that they lose them and by the time the match actually starts you find yourself not really giving a shit any more. But hey, I still enjoyed myself, even if I was gutted that The Shield didn't appear and they were advertised to be there just 3 or 4 days ago . The highlight of the night was definitely the surprise appearance of William Regal who schooled the shit out of Michael McGillicutty before cutting a cool ass promo after the match and giving mega props to Fit Finlay. Regal was over as hell too and seemed genuinely touched at the reception and love he was getting form the fans. Really cool to witness that. 

But yes, I think Cena/Ryback in a Tables Match is what's in store for us come ER and it was actually rather fun. Nothing spectacular by any means but fun. I imagine they'll have some bullshit finish up their sleeve rather than just a straight up AA through a table to came Ryback looking strong though. Heel Ryback can be an entertaining fella when he wants to be. At random times during the match he started yelling RYBACK RULES! RYBACK RULES! Chuck in a couple of STUPID's and the awesome FINISH-IT and yes, I rather enjoyed myself with that one. 

Clay/Tensai/Funkadactyls > Rhodes Scholars/Bellas
R-Truth > Cesaro
Regal > McGillicutty
Hell No > Ziggler/Big E
Kaitlyn > Tamina
Ryder > Slater
Cena > Ryback

That about sums it up I guess.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

As I've been reviewing nothing but Edge matches pretty much for the last few months, here's something a little different from me:

*CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy - TLC match for the World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2009:*

_I hadn't seen this match before so this was fun to watch. The match starts with Punk hammering Jeff with hard offense, introducing a chair, and trying to get the early victory by climbing ladder, but Jeff sends Punk off the ladder and Punk has a bad fall into the canvas. Jeff also makes an early attempt up the ladder, but it's stopped by Punk. There's a nice spot when Punk counters Jeff's attempt at poetry in motion, by catching him and dropping Jeff onto a chair. Punk is predominately in control up to this point in the match, and further establishes this by hitting Jeff with a Ladder and taking out Jeff with a suicide dive. Punk then sets up a table, grabs a chair, and aims for Jeff but Jeff ducks the chair and hits Punk with repeated strikes attempting to make a comeback. Jeff gets a chair shot off on Punk which keeps him down, and then Jeff hits his poetry in motion to Punk on the barricade in a nice spot. Jeff thinking he has Punk beat, sets up a table, puts Punk on it, climbs a ladder, but Jeff crashes and burns through the table after Punk gets out the way. With Jeff taken out now, Punk opportunistically grabs a ladder, brings it in the ring, and tries to bring down the title. Punk gets a few steps up the ladder, before Jeff gets back to stop him, they fight for a bit on the ladder, and Jeff gets the advantage by delivering a sunset flip powerbomb to Punk off the ladder. Jeff tries to use this advantage to climb the ladder again, but Punk pushes the ladder and Hardy lands in a nasty way on the ropes, his legs getting temporarily tangled up in the ropes during his fall. Punk wanting to take out Jeff permanently from the match, delivers a top rope superplex onto the ladder, hurting himself in the process. Then there's a nice back-and-forth sequence when Jeff gets off a twist of fate on Punk, and then tries to follow up with a swanton bomb, but Punk gets the knees up countering Jeff, but then Punk goes for the shining wizard in the corner, but Jeff catches Punk and throws into the table positioned at ring side. This doesn't stop Punk as he counters a Jeff climbing a ladder attempt by delivering a springboard elbow to Jeff, after that, they fight on the outside for a bit, Jeff gets the better of it by leveling Punk with a chair shot, then setting him up on the announce table, and then bringing out a HUGE ladder and then performs an awesome swanton off the ladder to Punk through the table. After this referees and officials get concerned, and they even place Jeff on a stretcher, but as Jeff sees Punk get back in the ring going for the ladder, Jeff fights out and chases after Punk. They both fight on top of the ladder for a brief moment before Punk gets the better of it and kicks Jeff in the ribs and then hits him with a big right hand, sending Jeff crashing to the floor and Punk pulls down the belt to become the new World Champion._ ****3/4*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gotta rewatch that punk/hardy tlc at one point I throw 5 flakes at it. how about top 5 unk matches ?

mitb vs cena
mania vs taker
noc vs cena
otl vs bryan
mania vs y2j


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top Five PHIL Matches?

UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
vs Bryan Over The Limit
UNDISCLOSED CENA MATCH
vs Jericho Wrestlemania
vs Undertaker Wrestlemania

.

BTW, JUST FINISHED MY LAST EXAM UNTIL SEPTEMBER. NON STOP WRESTLING IT IS.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Top 5 punk matches:

1) Taker WM 29
2) Cena MiTB
3) Bryan OTL
4) Hardy SS 09
5) Cena SS/Noc/Raw hard to pick

Edit: Jericho at ER and WM could easily make it into the top 5 or top 3 even. It's just hard to pick


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dat suspense,listening to the discussions of the last couple pgs on here I think I know one of them


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Out of interest how much wrestling do you guys watch on a daily basis? I can only watch a few matches per day at most.
I also only ever watch matches that are like ***1/2+, I hardly ever watch anything below average unless I'm watching a ppv live or have purchased a dvd. I just get bored out of my head and can't do it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TOP 5 CM MATCHES:

MITB 2011 (Cena)
WM29 (Taker)
WM28 (Jericho)
Raw 25/2/13 (Cena)
NoC 2012 (Cena)


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Fandango said:


> Big Show and Sheamus are both so criminally underrated it's not even funny.
> 
> It's easy to hate on the Big Show because he's 41 years old, he's "fat", "slow", and should be putting more people over. But just because you're old and bigger than your average wrestler doesn't mean you can't be good. If you look past all that and analyze him as a worker, talker, and from a general wrestling stand point, then you realize that what he does is truly remarkable. Stereo-typically speaking, a man of Big Show's size should not be moving the way he does in the ring. Big Show takes a ton of bumps and is extremely agile. He is a near 20 year veteran, yet doesn't get the respect he deserves.
> 
> ...



Both know how to work a match but Big Show has turned so much and is so damn emotional, I can't take him seriously. Sheamus has a cena like character so I can't like him but his wrestling skills.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Out of interest how much wrestling do you guys watch on a daily basis? I can only watch a few matches per day at most.
> I also only ever watch matches that are like ***1/2+, I hardly ever watch anything below average unless I'm watching a ppv live or have purchased a dvd. I just get bored out of my head and can't do it


Depends if I'm in the mood.. I usually watch Raw live and the ppv. If I'm not too busy, I can watch a couple hours worth of wrestling... but I rarely can watch a whole dvd straight though in one day now.

Also, I have other shows like TNA, smackdown on a stream in the background..


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Top 5 CM Punk Matches:

1. Money in the Bank 2011 (vs. Cena)
2. Wrestlemania XXIX (vs. Undertaker)
3. Night of Champions 2012 (vs. Cena)
4. Over the Limit 2012 (vs. Bryan)
5. ECW 9/4/07 (vs. Morrison)


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Top 5 GOD unk2

1. vs. Cena - Money in the Bank 2011
2. vs. Taker - WrestleMania 29
3. vs. D-Bry - Over the Limit 2012
4. vs. Cena - Raw (2/25/2013)
5. vs. Cena - Night of Champions 2012


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HWRP said:


> Out of interest how much wrestling do you guys watch on a daily basis? I can only watch a few matches per day at most.
> I also only ever watch matches that are like ***1/2+, I hardly ever watch anything below average unless I'm watching a ppv live or have purchased a dvd. I just get bored out of my head and can't do it


good question, I can only watch like 2-3 every other day and 3 matches is if im really in the wresting mood. On mondays maybe 1 and a raw. I think the thing is I cannot because I have schoolwork and classes and other stuff to deal and I spent time my other time on here.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 Punk Matches:

(****1/2)
1) vs. Bryan Over The Limit 2012
2) vs. Taker WM29
(****1/4)
3) vs. Cena MITB 2011
4) vs. Jeff Hardy SS 2009
(****)
5) vs. Ziggler Raw November 2011


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'd have to go on a Punk Rewatch to really rate his top five matches.. all good choices in other posts tho. I think the only feud I haven't liked of his was with Orton.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Top 5 CM Punk Matches:

1. CM Punk vs. John Cena - Money in the Bank 2011
2. CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe - ROH: Joe Vs. Punk II
3. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan - Over The Limit 2012
4. CM Punk vs. John Cena - Raw 2/25/13
5. CM Punk vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Top five Punk matches are difficult, since he's got a good number of **** matches. I'd probably go with (in no order):

vs. Cena at MITB
vs. Taker at Mania 29
vs. Jericho at Extreme Rules
vs. Bryan at Over the Limit
vs. Cena at NOC

On another note: HOLY SHIT just finished the Foley doc. This is definitely a must watch. Mick truly is one of the most legit, wholesome dudes in the industry. Loved hearing him talk about the various programs he had and getting people over. But forget wrestling, he just seems like a great person. The one thing I wish we could see one day is Taker speaking on the various programs he's had through the years, and his program with Foley in 1998 would be near the top.

Now, on to the matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show & Sheamus are two of the best workers currently in WWE. Show has been one of the most consistent for like a decade within the company.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

happy with all the responses to my punk question gonna go watch punk/hardy tlc now


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Punk top 5
Vs cena mitb
Vs bryan otl
Vs rey extreme rules 2010
Vs cena raw
Vs cena noc/ summerslam


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Wow, punk/taker is ridiculously overrated on here .... It still didn't crack my top 7 taker WM matches. 

Top 5 

1. Punk/cena MITB

2. Punk/Jericho WM 28

3. Punk/Cena NOC 12

4. Punk/Hardy SS 09

5. Punk/Bryan OTL 12


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Top five Punk matches in the WWE:

1) CM Punk Punk vs Cena- Money in the Bank 2011
2) CM Punk vs The Undertaker- WrestleMania 29
3) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan- Over the Limit 2012
4) CM Punk vs John Cena- RAW 2013
5) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho- WrestleMania 28


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock/Cena vs Miz/Truth is fucking AWFUL.

That's not even a slight on The Rock either, as it's CLEARLY Miz and Truth's fault on this one 100 percent.

I think they could really mask Rock's limitations at this point by sticking him in a multi man match or two TBH (assuming he doesn't retire now or after his next match at XXX). Keep him on offense for bursts and then take him out of the equation for a while and allow him to catch his breath, wouldn't be THAT bad I suppose. He wouldn't add anything that way but he wouldn't be able to drag it down into the abyss like he normally does.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rock showed a ton of promise in that tag. Busting out some neat shit, going all energetic, working the crowd really well. If they had run a ten minute Rock v Cena that night it could have been an excellent spectacle. Shame he kinda sucked following that, as it looked like he was still a good wrestler at that point.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

^^^ yeah its pretty much unwatchable. It was a pathetic idea by the wwe


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hated about all aspects of the Cena/Rock vs Miz/Truth tag. Nothing about it was worth seeing at all.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Even post match, when you could clearly see (and hear) John Cena say, "...then I'll turn around and you hit me with the fucking Rock Bottom."


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just finished punk/hardy summerslam and shocked how down it went in my ratings, I use to have it a 5 but now its barely *** 1/2. Spot fest kinda, mad respect to hardy for the massive bumps though


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A Top Five for CM Punk is not enough for me. Something along the lines of a top 50-100 is more like it unk2 Maybe I'll make a list as a project at some point.

What's the general consensus on what the greatest WCW/JCP PPV ever was? The two choices that I would say the debate should be between are Great American Bash 1989 and Spring Stampede 1994. Just look at the card/ratings for both:

*GAB 1989*

King of the Hill Battle Royal ***3/4*
Bill Irwin vs. Brian Pillman ***1/2*
The Skyscrapers vs. The Dynamic Dudes ****
Paul E. Dangerously vs. Jim Cornette ***1/2 (Loads of fun)*
Rick & Scott Steiner vs. The Varsity Club ****1/4* 
The Great Muta vs. Sting ******
Ricky Steamboat vs. Lex Luger *****1/2*
Wargames ******
Terry Funk vs. Ric Flair *****1/2*

*Spring Stampede 1994*

Johnny B Badd vs. DDP ***3/4*
Steven Regal vs. Brian Pillman *****
Nasty Boys vs. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne *****1/4*
Steve Austin vs. The Great Muta ***1/4 (Terrible ending)*
Sting vs. Rick Rude *****
Bunkhouse Buck vs. Dustin Rhodes *****1/4*
Vader vs. The Boss ****3/4*
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat *****1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bash at the Beach '97 = <3

Non-Nitro era WCW I usually lean towards the '92 - '93 events. Namely Beach Blast '92.

Spring Stampede '94 is bossy too. (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spring Stampede 94 is probably my favourite show ever.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Looks like I'll be on RAW on Monday DAT SHIELD vs. Bryan, KANE & TAKER match :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Still don't think that's gonna happen, if it does I'll be pretty shocked.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FOUR CENA PPV MATCHES IN TOTAL LEFT TO WATCH HOLY SHIT. Pretty sure I'm gonna have NWO 2012 in the mail tomorrow so I'll hold off on Cena-Show and watch SS 2004 Tag, Cena/Batista vs Booker/Finlay, & Maybe NWO 09 RAW Chamber now as I celebrate finishing the semester.

I'm gonna be so fucked up this weekend, I'll probably get so high on Saturday that I'll rate Rock-Punk I higher than one star :lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Judgment Day 2008
*Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho

Ya know, I was just gonna do a full review of the _Superstar Collection: Shawn Michaels _dvd, but after watching this, it needs a review on its own. This is an absolutely TREMENDOUS wrestling match on so many basic, yet intricate levels. Immediately at the opening bell Jericho tried to attack Shawn's so called injured knee, but the Showstopper blocks every attempt and you can tell Jericho is way off his normal mindset cause Shawn starts playin mind games with him. It's really like a role reversal here.

Mat wrestling and counters to start and it's oh so good. How often do you see two bridges off the mat in the gutwrench position in the same match, let alone on back to back occasions? Almost never I'd say. Tremendous showing of strength and athleticism from both guys. The structure of the match kicks in when Jericho starts working on the ribs of Michaels. Lots of stiff knees and kicks to the midsection, which Shawn sells amazingly throughout the match at every given moment.

Sweet Chin Music can strike at any moment, and that's exactly what happens. Out of NOWHERE on the apron and lays Jericho out cold on the floor. Michaels has to literally drag his limp body back into the middle of the ring for a long 2 count. Great moment there. He eventually gets setup for SCM again and the crowd is counting the number of times the boot hits the mat, but instead of Jericho standing up and turning around into it, he goes back to a knee... TWICE. Mind games by Jericho! He suckers everyone in the audience and even Shawn himself is confused, so Jericho swings around and hits the codebreaker. 1-2-NO! Shawn with the shoulder up, amazing. 

Neither man has won with their signature moves, so what do we get in the final minutes? A CRIPPLER CROSSFACE. Michaels locks it in and seriously puts some torque into it, before Jericho makes it to the ropes and goes back to the ribs (constant story that never averts the attention). But now you see, here's where I'm gonna stop. I quite honestly don't wanna spoil the finish for anyone who hasn't yet seen the match. Please, do yourself a favor and watch it asap. Jim Ross is brilliant on commentary, the match itself is a damn near masterpiece, & the postmatch handshake makes the whole package come together even more. At the end of the day, this MAY be my 2008 Match of the Year. Incredible.


***** 1/2*​


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Shawn Michaels for 1993:

*Vs. Marty Jannetty - Royal Rumble 1993; IC Title Match*

***1/2

Pretty solid match from the former partners. Biggest problem I have with this match is the finish. Marty sold the arm work by Shawn really well.

*Vs. Tatanka - Wrestlemania IX; IC Title Match*

***

This match for me is so jeckel and hyde. First half is pretty decent, never been a big fan of Tatanka but Shawn makes him look good and they do some cool spots, the second half drags badly and lacks proper logic.. The rollups were a joke, then the finish. Yall can skip this one.
*
Vs. Crush - KOTR 1993 ; IC title Match*

**

Shawn's bumping was good.. Shit match

*Vs. Mr. Perfect - Summerslam 1993; IC Title Match*

**1/2

I expected alot from this match. Boy was I wrong. No chemistry at all, last four minutes or so was what saved it from being a real dud. The finish didn't help. P.S. I really despise the slingshot move.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Glad somebody else appreciates the beauty of that match ; the Jericho-HBK feud in 2008 was certainly something to behold. Whether it was the prowess of the Judgment Day match up, the superbly stiff storytelling of the Great American Bash match, the brutality that was the Unforgiven 2008 match, all the way to the epic ladder match these two had. Perhaps one of the best linear series' of matches ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho/Michaels is my pick for best storyline of the past ten years. I swear, there isn't a single flaw in any part of the way this was built. Jericho was a GOAT-level heel in 2008, while Shawn Michaels played the face better than anyone else could at the time. Thank goodness the WHC was allowed to be involved in this feud, as it even added to the already great story.

Did Michaels and Hennig ever have a good match together?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ya know, folks in here were talking about all time great chemistry and throwing Cena/Punk, Taker/HBK, & Flair/Steamboat out there, but I definitely think Michaels & Jericho should be in that discussion. I mean, the two have had what, 5 PPV matches against one another? All fantastic on different levels. 

Random note though, I had no fucking IDEA the two ever had a Last Man Standing match on RAW until someone brought it up in here. None whatsoever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Same here, I need to check it out sometime.

ABSOLUTELY their chemistry needs to be mentioned, as they have not only competed in 5 FANTASTIC PPV matches, but every one of them has been with a different dynamic. I hate to admit that I'm wrong, but Jericho/HBK may be above the HBK/Cena series, contradicting what I said about a month ago in here. I still believe that WM XXIII > Anything Jericho/HBK have ever done together, but when it comes to fantastic matches ; HBK and Cena have only had one PPV match together, despite their four AWESOME TV matches to go along with the Mania classic.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'm curious how many of you Punk (or indy wrestler fans like Bryan) have actually watched their matches from ROH/PWG/etc.. I notice only 1 person out of like 10 mentioned a Punk ROH match. Any Punk fan should really check out his stuff vs Joe/Raven/Aries/etc..

I could never mention a top Punk list without mentioning Punk/Joe 2 or Punk/Joe 3. Both are all time classics.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Nasty Boys vs. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne *****1/4*


The rematch of Nasty Boys vs Cactus/Kevin Sullivan was MUCH better. Happened at Slamboree 94 iirc.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Jericho/Michaels is my pick for best storyline of the past ten years. I swear, there isn't a single flaw in any part of the way this was built. Jericho was a GOAT-level heel in 2008, while Shawn Michaels played the face better than anyone else could at the time. Thank goodness the WHC was allowed to be involved in this feud, as it even added to the already great story.
> 
> Did Michaels and Hennig ever have a good match together?


I love Jericho/Michaels. I'd have to agree that it was an epic feud, not sure about best feud last 10 years but quality for sure. Can't wait til I get up to that time period.

Accoring to pro fight database, Summerslam 1993 was Michaels/Hennig's only singles match. To be fair on the rating I gave it, Hennig's back was really messed up still.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> I'm curious how many of you Punk (or indy wrestler fans like Bryan) have actually watched their matches from ROH/PWG/etc.. I notice only 1 person out of like 10 mentioned a Punk ROH match. Any Punk fan should really check out his stuff vs Joe/Raven/Aries/etc..
> 
> I could never mention a top Punk list without mentioning Punk/Joe 2 or Punk/Joe 3. Both are all time classics.


I got into ROH late (Few years ago, before Bryan signed) and indys in general but I own over 20 ROH dvds and seen alot of Punk's work there.. The dog collar match with Raven, Joe vs. Punk 1, his title run etc. I didn't make a list cause I can't off the top of my head but I'd have a few ROH matches on the list for sure.

I actually haven't seen all of Joe/Punk 2 or 3.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm starting to regret only seeing about half of Judgment Day 2008 now. Which implies I _haven't _seen Jericho vs Michaels yet.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Better get on it, scrap iron!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If I can find it online, it will be watched.

It may take a backseat to a few ROH matches you pimped out to me first though. Priorities bro. _(not counting how I STILL need to watch Invasion Attack. Tried today, but my download had ZERO sound. I raged for so long. Then I put on SHIMMER 53, saw Kong, managed to compromise my anger.)_


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel - Good Friends, Better Enemies *(***1/4) *
Bret Hart vs. Hakushi - Raw 1995* (***1/2) *(Underrated _GEM_ here)
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2003 *(****1/2)*
Undertaker vs. Triple H - Insurrextion 2002 *(***1/4)*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KONG

I'll be happy either way if it's something I'm pimping. 

Back on topic, Michaels/Kane from RAW 3/22/10 is quite the weird "match."


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie Edwards vs Chris Hero to be the first. :mark: 

Kane vs Michaels match I recall being trash. Kane was clearly dominating only for Shawn to come back in a nauseating fashion to make Kane look like a chump. With WM on Sunday, it shouldn't have been done in a fashion to where Kane was too much for Shawn at a point in the match. idk. I didn't like it.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> If I can find it online, it will be watched.
> 
> It may take a backseat to a few ROH matches you pimped out to me first though. Priorities bro. _(not counting how I STILL need to watch Invasion Attack. Tried today, but my download had ZERO sound. I raged for so long. Then I put on SHIMMER 53, saw Kong, managed to compromise my anger.)_


I have Punk/Joe 2 and 3 (along with a lot of other ROH classics) on YouTube:

Joe/Punk 2
Joe/Punk 3

Invasion Attack is incredible which I'm sure you've seen me say in the Puro threads


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

What about their Unforgiven 2004 match? Surely, that was good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Personally I love it. If you took the Undertaker match @ XXV and you condensed it down into a really fucking short period of time (not story wise of course, I'm talking about the strict choreography of the moves), you essentially have that TV match against Kane. One of the best "short" matches I have ever seen, LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT.

YOU ARE GOING TO FUCKING ADORE THE WM XXVI MATCH WHEN YOU WATCH IT NOW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> I have Punk/Joe 2 and 3 (along with a lot of other ROH classics) on YouTube:
> 
> Joe/Punk 2
> Joe/Punk 3
> ...


omg, the third match too? All I can ever find is their second. Now if only I have a wait to seek out Joe vs Punk I I'll be in full business.

Hearing it's been show of the year up till this point. Hard pressed for me to disagree just by knowing the card. I may have to resort to dailymotion...if it is on there. Must be seen.



GOATAntics said:


> What about their Unforgiven 2004 match? Surely, that was good.


Good match. I'm a fan.



KingOfKings said:


> Personally I love it. If you took the Undertaker match @ XXV and you condensed it down into a really fucking short period of time (not story wise of course, I'm talking about the strict choreography of the moves), you essentially have that TV match against Kane. One of the best "short" matches I have ever seen, LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT.
> 
> YOU ARE GOING TO FUCKING ADORE THE WM XXVI MATCH WHEN YOU WATCH IT NOW.


I was waiting for someone to make that claim.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

*Wrestlemania X
IC Title Ladder Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon
******​
I've seen this match numerous times and it NEVER gets old. Considering that the the night before, Razor and Shawn were high as fuck, they sure perfomed the next night. I LOVE in ladder matches when the ladder is a brutal weapon and not something you just climb for the title a billion times or jump off. The build in the match was pretty much perfect and the only flaw I can really see is Diesel being thrown out. Epic, timeless classic.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think Michaels/Jericho at Judgment Day is my second favourite match between the two. I don't really dig any of their matches other than that and GAB anyway though. The 2003 ones are pretty cool. I kind of hate the LMS in London that people were talking about.



HayleySabin said:


> It may take a backseat to a few ROH matches you pimped out to me first though. Priorities bro. _(not counting how I STILL need to watch Invasion Attack. Tried today, but my download had ZERO sound. I raged for so long. Then I put on SHIMMER 53, saw Kong, managed to compromise my anger.)_


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkqe73q3eoU

You have to fuck around with the video a bit to get it to actually play. Try waiting until you hear sound, then skipping to a certain length of the video, then going back to the beginning.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just finished Taker/Angle from NWO '06. Damn good match. I loved that they didn't use the other announce table. Going in I didn't know who won the match but when they mentioned they face Orton at WM I expected Taker to win so that was a huge mark out moment when Kurt pulled it off. I'd throw ****1/4-****1/2 at it. Now onto Foley vs Orton and then vs Edge.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Just finished Taker/Angle from NWO '06. Damn good match. I loved that they didn't use the other announce table. Going in I didn't know who won the match but when they mentioned they face Orton at WM I expected Taker to win so that was a huge mark out moment when Kurt pulled it off. I'd throw ****1/4-****1/2 at it. Now onto Foley vs Orton and then vs Edge.


If you liked their NWO encounter, You should definitely check out their SD match together in 2003. It's better, IMO.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

thanks, will do after the 2 mentioned matches.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Taker/Angle NWO 06 - ****3/4


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> HayleySabin said:
> 
> 
> > It may take a backseat to a few ROH matches you pimped out to me first though. Priorities bro. _(not counting how I STILL need to watch Invasion Attack. Tried today, but my download had ZERO sound. I raged for so long. Then I put on SHIMMER 53, saw Kong, managed to compromise my anger.)_
> ...


Or watch the playlist on Jahmale's Dailymotion account. Never had a single issue.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Rah said:


> A better criticism is how they negated the point of the chain (the central part to the frigging match) by focusing on the use of other weaponry. Though it's not like Lesnar adequately sold a PILEDRIVER onto the steps. An overusage of interference and that aside, this match wasn't bad. Not that bad, at any rate. JoeRulz, you may hate their HiaC match more. I remember being the only one not thinking of it as great in this thread. That "psychology/selling". :lmao


Their HIAC was amazing up until the point where Taker chokeslamed that fucking animal WITH THE BROKEN FREAKIN' HAND, completely nixing all the previous work from Lesnar, which is a damn shame, because he was selling it so well earlier in the match. i.e. when he tried to lift those stairs, but couldn't. That match doesn't even belong in Top 30 from WWE 2002.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

well I just watched somethin'. HEY, COINCIDENCE!?

Brock Lesnar v. The Undertaker (No Mercy 10/20/02)
I had no idea how this would hold up, but it holds up well. It's not a FANTASTIC match, and I won't be voting it, but it is pretty great. Lesnar kind of ruled; I loved how he'd go the extra mile to sell when Taker used the cast. The first thing in the match after Brock dodges the cast-shots was him getting knocked in the gut with it, and he jumped and landed somewhere on his shoulder/neck. Took some real cool bumps off the cell as well; that one where he slides across the floor for a second because of the sweat is something I could watch all day. I don't really know how to sum up Taker here. I was kind 'meh' about his 'workover' of Lesnar, and during it kind of wish I was watching 2008 Undertaker do it instead. Also this was really the first viewing where Taker's broken hand-selling bothered me. It's pretty much brought up whenever this match is, and there seems to be a group who's bothered by it, and a group who isn't (aren't literally groups). I tended to stay out of those discussions because I just never remembered how Taker sold, or didn't sell, the hand. I kind of caught it this time. I thought he sold it really, really well when actually being HIT on the hand; he'd do the whole 'extra loud yells of pain' stuff and mangle it afterwards, and had great spots like not being to pick up the steps, but between Lesnar's hand-targeting, there was a lot of time he'd ignore it. That wasn't all that bad, and I'd be lying if I said that bothered me all that much, but if you're asking me if the match would have been better had he continually sold the hand no matter what...hell yeah. I don't really go in expecting that from everyone, though. Arn Anderson doing that in 1992 was awesome, Toshiaki Kawada doing that in 1993 was awesome, Randy Savage doing it whenever (and doing that amazing 'hop while punching' spot) was awesome. This wasn't awesome, but 'not-awesome' doesn't mean bad - this was fine. It isn't a match-breaker, and I was enjoying the match despite it. What DID bother me, was his annoying insistence on using the hand as offense. He had a cast, OK, yeah, the cast is a weapon, take Brock out with it. Then Lesnar goes ahead takes the cast off after a while, and Taker still uses the same hand. It isn't something he's doing on purpose; using his broken hand because it's broken, I've seen enough Undertaker to know he uses his right hand for pretty much everything (AND HE DID HERE - holding the roof of the cell, wiping blood from his eyes, the chokeslam) but, shit, use the other one. So, other than that, this WAS pretty great. You know the rest of the match. I think. Just watch it IDFK.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

JoeRulz said:


> Their HIAC was amazing up until the point where Taker chokeslamed that fucking animal WITH THE BROKEN FREAKIN' HAND, completely nixing all the previous work from Lesnar, which is a damn shame, because he was selling it so well earlier in the match. i.e. when he tried to lift those stairs, but couldn't. That match doesn't even belong in Top 30 from WWE 2002.


I did write up a review on the HIAC match and discussed that flaw, perhaps i can redirect your opinion.



Spoiler: Taker/Lesnar, HIAC Review



This match tends to be argued upon a lot, some people prefer to give it a low rating while the majority sways to a very high one. This HIAC match to me is very, very entertaining, The cast being the main object between defeat and victory interlined with the in-ring action very well. I did also enjoy the parts where Brock was trying to tear the cast apart with a chair and Heyman in the background, groaning with his sadistic voice and blood trickling down his face. The whole match put Lesnar over as the next top guy and more importantly as a BEAST. Taker's unselling of the hand AFTER he gets hit with the steel steps, I say "after" because he sells the hand pretty well after the cast gets ripped off, It's not until he gets brutalized with the steps till the selling of the hand goes out the window. Anyways, It's very understandable though, Taker has to be dazed, confused and forgetting shit after that heavy blade job, also the blade job puts Brock over more as a monster than the "broken" hand ever did. So i don't really understand the hold onto this one flaw. Overall, This is one of the most brutalic and violent matches in the HIAC stipulation ever and i loved every second of it.

****1/2


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

> It isn't a match-breaker


Well, it's not, but I can't go over ***1/2 for it. ***1/2 is the pretty damn good rating, especially considering this:ˇˇˇˇ



> What DID bother me, was his annoying insistence on using the hand as offense. He had a cast, OK, yeah, the cast is a weapon, take Brock out with it. Then Lesnar goes ahead takes the cast off after a while, and Taker still uses the same hand. It isn't something he's doing on purpose; using his broken hand because it's broken, I've seen enough Undertaker to know he uses his right hand for pretty much everything (AND HE DID HERE - holding the roof of the cell, wiping blood from his eyes, the chokeslam) but, shit, use the other one.


Well, that right there, that shit really breaks the match for some people, including for me, but not to the degree where I would throw the match down the shitter.



GOATAntics said:


> I did write up a review on the HIAC match and discussed that flaw, perhaps i can redirect your opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't touch the Unforgiven match, IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The use of Undertaker's right hand while meant to be mangled is what stops me for deeming it "perfect". Rest of the match rocks my socks. Always has.

Haven't seen the Unforgiven match nearly as many times. I know I love it though. Flat out manly brawl. Non-finish was all good with me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 11th October 2004 - Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Shawn Michaels*

This Raw was in the UK, so as you would expect the crowd was loud. This was also about a week before Taboo Tuesday, where one of Edge, Benoit or HBK would face HHH for the World Title. An intriguing match, since Edge is already getting heavy boos and midway through his heel turn, despite being on the 'face' team.

Batista and Benoit begin the match and quickly go for some heavy offense, with Batista looking to hit an early Batista Bomb, before Benoit counters and attempts to lock in the Sharpshooter. Flair gets the tag, and he proceeds to be dominated early on by both Benoit and Michaels, with some big chops and two back body drops. Benoit tries to beat Flair at his own game by locking him in the Figure Four. Evolution tries to interfere, but Edge and HBK lock in Figure Fours on Batista and HHH respectively aswell as Raw goes to break.

After returning, HHH is on top against Benoit, twice whipping him hard into the turnbuckle and weakening his lower back. During the break, Batista slammed Benoit's back against the ring apron and Evolution naturally target the weakened area. Evolution continue to ground Benoit and stop him from tagging, with Flair locking in the Figure Four and Batista continues the punishment with a huge Spinebuster. Edge has to break up the resulting cover. Benoit finally counters with an Enziguri and gets the hot tag to HBK as HHH gets the tag also. HBK cleans house of HHH and Flair, before HHH attempts to hit the Pedigree. HBK counters with a back body drop, before Benoit hits the diving headbutt off the top rope. HBK tunes up the band in the corner, but Edge tags himself in. He and HBK argue, and HHH looks to take advantage with the Pedigree but HBK is having none of it and hits Sweet Chin Music after all. Edge being the legal man makes the cover and pins the champ, before taunting both Benoit and HBK on the mic after, and giving them both Spears.

A standard match, but Evolution at this time were really the kings of the TV tag match and kept it ticking on throughout. The dynamic between Edge, Benoit and HBK was fun, with all of them trying to prove that they should be the one to face The Game for the World Title. Evolution had a good control segment as usual, and the hot crowd added to the match.

*****

*Survivor Series 2004 - Triple H, Snitsky, Batista & Edge vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Randy Orton & Maven*

Although this match has very minimal HHH/Benoit interaction, they're still both involved so it's included in the project. Maven was taken out backstage by Snitsky earlier in the night, so Team Orton is already down to three. Edge and Benoit start it off, before Edge quickly tags out and allows Snitsky in. He and Orton push and shove each other before landing some blows. Benoit and Edge then mix it up again, with Benoit hitting German suplexes on everyone, including a set of three on HHH. He then suplexes Edge on top of HHH, before heading to the top and connecting with the diving headbutt to both men. Benoit then locks in the Sharpshooter, but Snitsky distracts the ref and HHH hits the Pedigree. Edge crawls over and pins Benoit to eliminate him.

Triple H and Snitsky then argue, and Snitsky shoves HHH to the ground before Batista intervenes. With Batista and Snitsky arguing, Jericho locks Trips in the Walls Of Jericho, before Batista realizes and breaks it up. Jericho then goes to hit the Lionsault, but Flair at ringside tugs at his foot while on the ropes. He then gets booted from ringside and goes ham, throwing his jacket around in classic Flair style. Back in the ring, Batista is in control of Jericho before Orton hits him with the title belt with the referee still making sure Flair is gone. Y2J takes advantage and hits an Enziguri to eliminate Batista.

With it 3 v 2, Maven arrives despite his earlier attack and hits some offense on Snitsky and HHH. Snitsky grabs a chair and lays Maven out with a huge chair shot to the head. Naturally, this gets Snitsky disqualified and he is eliminated. However the damage is done, and HHH pins Maven to eliminate him. HHH is then in control of Jericho, and tries to hit the Pedigree but Jericho counters. He then walks right into a Spear by Edge and is pinned. Orton is now the only man left on his team. Edge and HHH grin at each other and begin to pummel Orton in the corner. Orton ducks a clothesline and then dropkicks Edge into HHH who was on the apron. Edge is temporarily distracted and that allows Orton to hit the RKO and eliminate him. With the ref distracted though, HHH hits a low blow on Orton and the end looks near. He sets him up for the Pedigree, but Orton counters brilliantly into the RKO for the win, and is the sole survivor for the second year in a row.

I didn't enjoy this match as much as I did the last time I watched it, it all seemed rather rushed. The eliminations were pretty close together and no one seemed to be able to get into much a rhythm. There was a good dynamic between Team HHH, and there were some good moments throughout, but I'm definitely not as big of a fan of this now. Still a solid enough traditional Survivor Series match though with a good finish.

****1/4*



Spoiler:  So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Vengeance 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 26/7/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit (Iron Man) - ***1/2
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Survivor Series 2004: Team Triple H vs Team Orton - ***1/4
Raw 20/9/2004: Triple H, Batista & Flair vs Benoit, Orton & Benjamin - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Raw 11/10/2004: Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Shawn Michaels - ***
Raw 9/8/2004: Triple H & Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've always, always thought highly of the Team Trips vs Team Orton Elimination match. Man, what a ton of fun to watch. Stip added gave it such an interesting wrinkle. Not only to the match; it added into the next four weeks following it. Great idea. Toss in Snitsky being the man + Edge's entrance with FIRE, I got my moments I dig.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well I still enjoyed it as you can see my the rating, maybe my tiredness influenced my views on it slightly. :lol It definitely felt shorter than the last few times I watched it, and guys like Benoit, Jericho and Batista barely seemed involved which was a shame. I still love the stipulation though, it's always fun when a SS match has an interesting story/stip around it. I used to have the match at around ****3/4*-****** so it has dropped considerably though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I only recently saw the match for the first time since it aired, and I totally loved it. Probably in my top 5 SS Elimination matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Batista's limited role worked for me. He was muscle that got bounced early and it was for the better considering he was merely the "other" guy in Evolution. Snitsky _(believe it or not, which we all kind of can't haha)_ & Edge were better ones to focus with more time. Jericho did enough. Not a whole lot, but enough. Benoit did a good portion although he did get the raw deal being out within seven minutes. It happens with the elimination matches. Not everyone who should gets the time to shine. Mark Henry was out of the 2009 Team Orton vs Team Kofi match in less than a minutes. We've seen our fair share of the jip jobs.

Forgot to add Flair was yet again THE MAN during the match too.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The eliminations made sense, though had the match been slightly longer I definitely think it would have helped. Snitsky was awesome throughout though, one of his best performances. And of course Flair was _the_ man again, as you said. Flair going ham is always fun to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair getting pissed off when he was sent to the back and throwing his coat over sign guy was one of my favourite parts of the match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Tim Legend said:


> Of course... I was sort of just talking WWE/F but since it's all owned by Vince anyway it's whatever...
> 
> 
> Wrestle war is the only match I Rememer having at ***** but Probably should check out Chi town rumble again. But yeah in terms of match by match quality and chemistry they have clearly one of the best series ever. Not a match under ****. Maybe if I have time I'll do a proper comparison of both series.


Some wrestlers create such amazing work together and Flair vs. Steamboat is one of those in-ring rivalries that is undeniable the cream of the crop of classic wrestling in the United States in my opinion. Of course we should look at Flair's chemistry with other performers such as Barry Windham and Kerry Von Erich. Some of the matches he had with those two are arguably at the level of his series with Steamboat.

If we are just talking WWF/E then we have to mention Bret-Austin, Bret-Owen, Taker-Mankind, Savage-Steamboat, Brainbusters-Rockers, Eddie-Mysterio (although their history in WCW only adds to their argument), I agree with Jericho-HBK, Jericho-Mysterio, Angle-Benoit, Angle-Taker, Batista-Taker, and of course Cena-Punk.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Foley Blu-ray arrived this morning and I've just finished the doc...

Fantastic stuff. Honest insight, brought back great memories of his amazing career. I think most agree that his stint as Commissioner was one of the best things he ever did. His chemistry with Edge & Christian and Kurt Angle was gold.

And he ended the doc with a quote from Larry David. Perfect :lmao


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yep. Foley doc was awesome and a great watch. The man literally put his life on the line with all the crazy shit he did to entertain us and is paying the price for it now. He doesn't complain about it though and he seems very happy and content with his life. In the end, that's all that you can really hope for for these guys when it's all said and done. It's great that he has other things he's passionate about to keep him busy as well. I'll definitely be watching it again at some point. Brilliant story.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just realized that when I get home today that I have the Best of Nitro Vol. 2 waiting for me, which I bought like a month ago when it came out, anybody know if its worth a watch today, or should I just keep going with CENA until I finish it all up? 

That Armageddon tag is BAD also, dafuq Cena?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Mick Foley doc arrived in the main this morning. Will watch it later tonight with my little brother. Decided to not download it of the web. Foley deserves my money.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Think I'm gonna watch a lot of eddie and benoit matches and create a list of their top 50 matches or so. Anyone have some hidden gems or matches you really enjoyed that you can recommend?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> I just realized that when I get home today that I have the Best of Nitro Vol. 2 waiting for me, which I bought like a month ago when it came out, anybody know if its worth a watch today, or should I just keep going with CENA until I finish it all up?
> 
> That Armageddon tag is BAD also, dafuq Cena?


CENA CENA MOAR CENA

:cena2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Think I'm gonna watch a lot of eddie and benoit matches and create a list of their top 50 matches or so. Anyone have some hidden gems or matches you really enjoyed that you can recommend?


*Best Of The Super Juniors III - Semi Final*
Black Tiger II (Eddie Guerrero) vs. Chris Benoit
_NJPW 6/11/1996

_Easily the best match they had against each other and one of Benoit's all time best performances. Here's the match in 3 parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Yq7CobGBM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_N4io4jak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh8-bTxcEXk


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MOAR CENA?

:cena3

Starbuck, what do you think of the five Rock Matches since he came back? I'm very, very curious because IIRC you're a pretty big fan of the guy. I'm guessing Austin's your least favorite of the top attitude stars?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Austin is my least favorite because he refused to put anyone over, I can't even think of one star he's made during his whole WWE/WWF run.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> Foley Blu-ray arrived this morning and I've just finished the doc...
> 
> Fantastic stuff. Honest insight, brought back great memories of his amazing career. I think most agree that his stint as Commissioner was one of the best things he ever did. His chemistry with Edge & Christian and Kurt Angle was gold.
> 
> And he ended the doc with a quote from Larry David. Perfect :lmao


I agree.

Loved the ending with Larry David's "pretty good..pretty..pretty..pretty..pretty good" .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HAITCH HAITCH HAITCH

Austin doesn't have a pinfall victory over GAME on PPV when he became a big star In 1999. Austin jobbed to Hunter at both No Mercy 1999 and No Way Out 2001.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

The only victory i remember Austin had over HHH was in IYH:Buried Alive 1996.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> HAITCH HAITCH HAITCH
> 
> Austin doesn't have a pinfall victory over GAME on PPV when he became a big star In 1999. Austin jobbed to Hunter at both No Mercy 1999 and No Way Out 2001.


I would say Trips and Rock put over themselves with that magnificent feud for the IC title.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Austin never really had a big chance to 'put anyone over' due to his career being relatively short. Once he got big, it was only a few years later when he was close to retiring. Had he wrestled for a few more years I'm sure he would have put over some younger guys.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> MOAR CENA?
> 
> :cena3
> 
> Starbuck, what do you think of the five Rock Matches since he came back? I'm very, very curious because IIRC you're a pretty big fan of the guy. I'm guessing Austin's your least favorite of the top attitude stars?


FEED ME MOAR..........CENA 8*D.

I guess you could say Austin's my least favourite of the AE top guys but I wouldn't term it that way because I still think he's awesome and enjoy basically everything he's ever done. I don't necessarily 'mark' for him but I'm still a huge fan. 

As for Rock, well, he's hit or miss truth be told. 

- Survivor Series was cool as just to see him back in the ring again after all this time but that's about it. Nothing special at all and really just an excuse to give Cena/Rock some build. 

- Wrestlemania 28 I'm probably a bit biased towards because I was there and enjoyed the hell out of the atmosphere etc but I think it's his best match since his return. It was truly special and a dream match of mine for years. To actually witness it happen was GOAT. His performance wasn't the best and I'd fall in line with those who say Cena 'carried' the match I suppose. Not that it was much of a carry job but Rock was clearly feeling the pace and needed his rest periods. OK match but helped greatly by the significance of who was in it, the atmosphere and the moment. 

- Rumble was a highlight for me basically just because he won. I'd need to watch it again to give a proper verdict but yeah, from what I can remember the match was all over the place. I really liked the little reversal/submission sequence they had somewhere towards the middle but outside of that and the ending, not a great performance or match overall, again, from what I can remember. 

- Chamber match I can't even recall anything about it tbh so I can't speak on that one at all really. 

- Wrestlemania 29 is just a bit of a mess in its entirety really. They had me looking forward to it with their 2 promos but I don't know, the general vibe of the show itself was just so off, the match started out of nowhere, no special entrances, no ONCE IN A LIFETIME vibe to work off and the match itself was literally a a finisher fest. As with the previous 2 matches, I need to watch them again as I've only seen them all once or twice a piece. But my immediate thoughts aren't the best, especially with this match considering the aftermath and this whole Rock situation going on now. 

The thing with Rock for me though is that I was never a fan of him because of his ring work. I loved him as a kid because I could say all his catchphrases and imitate him like we all probably did as kids and because of his character above all else. This return has been great in the sense that he has provided some awesome and memorable moments, one of which I got to be there live for, but I'm not going to say that it has been perfect. It definitely has been hit or miss in all aspects from ring work to mic work. I can appreciate him for what he brings to the table and enjoy it while it lasts because it doesn't look like he's going to be around for much longer. If I'm in the mood for a great match Rock isn't the first guy I'm going to pop in the DVD player. If I'm looking for something to entertain me and give me a few laughs then he's at the top of the list. 

RESPECT DA RAWK KOK

:rock4


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Well said Starbuck :rock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey guys, remember that time Rock was entertaining?

Me either 8*D.

Gonna torture myself later. Gonna give ECW December To Dismember a watch. Why? I'm rather intrigued by it tbh. Only watched it in 06 the day after it aired, and I remember absolutely NOTHING about it aside from the fact Lashley won the Chamber match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I read a report that said Rock doesn't want to work Lesnar any more and wants to fight for the streak next year. BE AFRAID CAL.

:taker


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Austin made the WWE what it is. That's more than enough. He got viewers in, that's putting people over to the world.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> So I read a report that said Rock doesn't want to work Lesnar any more and wants to fight for the streak next year. BE AFRAID CAL.
> 
> :taker


I'm not afraid of the streak ending, I'm afraid of how bad a match Rocky will drag Taker down too, **, * or the dreaded DUD. :argh:, I'm scared mommy.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

What do you guys think of the AUSTIN/HHH 3 stages of hell match? I've seen it varying from as low as ** to the full *****.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HWRP said:


> What do you guys think of the AUSTIN/HHH 3 stages of hell match? I've seen it varying from as low as ** to the full *****.


***1/4, Has no sense of structure or flow, but is a really FUN mess of a match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Gonna torture myself later. Gonna give ECW December To Dismember a watch. Why? I'm rather intrigued by it tbh. Only watched it in 06 the day after it aired, and I remember absolutely NOTHING about it aside from the fact Lashley won the Chamber match.


The Chamber match isn't THAT bad. I think it gets too much hate because the rest of the show sucks and the underwhelming ending, but the likes of RVD and Test put in work in that match. And I liked the weapon concept, although I think they could of done it better.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Austin/HHH - I have at ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Excellent post Starbuck, really encapsulates what The Rock can mean to an individual while also highlighting why individuals such as myself are so against the guy ; I just never found his schtick funny or anything resembling entertaining apart from a few separate instances. Another big issue I have with the guy is that he never really sold the seriousness of a feud to me, EVER. I know people will claim that "that's always Rock's style though", but that's the point ; I never really enjoyed his style and even as a KID found what he did to be a little overrated. 

Nice to out things into perspective from a Rock fan's point of view though, as if you do enjoy his stuff you might enjoy some of his work from the last few years. Rock's also the only person besides Punk to really make Cena elevate his game on the mic over the last few years, and it was nice to see him give Cena that moment, even if the match was a horrible abomination on all of mankind.

Trips-Austin 3SOH? Oh, that's a polarizing HHH match. Some will be quick to point out to pure mayhem mixed with excitement that drives the match, while others will critique the blatant lack of structure, skewed storytelling, and other factors . Personally I think it's a pretty mixed bag as it has a ton of fundamental flaws but has one of the most perfect endings to a match ever. Haven't seen it In a while but my best bet is that it's around three stars or two and a half or something of that nature.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

December 2 Dismemeber also has a pretty good Hardys/MNM match if i recall.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

December 2 Dismember > Royal Rumble 2013.

I like the actual Rumble match in 2013 though, thought it was superior to the 2012 & 2010 editions for sure.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Royal Rumble was the worst PPV in a long, long time.Thank god i didn't pay for that shit like i was going to. I was so excited for Punk/Rock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My thoughts exactly.

When's the last PPV that people have actually bought here live? Summerslam 2012 was the one for me (missed Jericho/DOLPH though) ; Punk defending the title on a match with John Cena + the biggest dream match that I had left main eventing the show = BUYS.

Never bought NOC because I actually couldn't due to where I was, never bought HIAC or Survivor Series because I'm Not paying to watch Ryback in the main event. No title defence at TLC meant no buys, as well as Rock headlining a show (there's three PPVS with no buys).


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I technically "bought" HIAC because i watched it on Sky Sports but before then, probably Wrestlemania 25 :$


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I bought Wrestlemania & Elimination Chamber this year, plus Summerslam, Extreme Rules, & Mania last year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JE187, I'm really disappointed in you for supporting the Rock .

BROCK or GAME always equals a buy for me unless its shitty rematch mania like we got this year, then I'll just HD stream it on the TV which is just as good besides the ridiculous price. Planning on buying Extreme Rules just for BROCK-GAME and CENA triumphing over that scrub Ryback.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Please, call me Corey. If you look at it the other way around though, I supported Brock a lot too...


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Me and my friends normally buy the big 4 PPV's no matter what but we've recently stopped buying Survivor Series.

Foley Blu-Ray came in the mail (Y)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Trips/BROCK in a cage really intrigues me, it's going to be quite a throwback i think. Very slow with Brock dominating over what part he injured of Trips' at Mania. Babyface comeback from Trips until Brock nails him with an F-5 into the cage wall. Brock wins because HE HAS TO. Part IV at Payback probably. 

They need a HUGE match to sell this terribly named new PPV, the final encounter, Triple H/Lesnar.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> When's the last PPV that people have actually bought here live? Summerslam 2012 was the one for me (missed Jericho/DOLPH though) ; Punk defending the title on a match with John Cena + the biggest dream match that I had left main eventing the show = BUYS.


Last one was WrestleMania 29. Bought it because I watched the show with my brother and 4 other people. Did the same for WrestleMania 28. You'll enjoy wrestling more watching with others I've found, but I still didn't enjoy WrestleMania 29 too much..

Also bought Royal Rumble 2013 for the same reason and that the fact the Rumble match is the most exiting match of the year, but then Cena went on to win it again... fpalm

Don't think I'll buy one again for a while. It's good we get Over The Limit, MITB, Hell in a Cell and Elimination Chamber free in the UK. (Y)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

My last one bought was No Mercy 99. My last wrestling ppv bought was one of the weekly tna shows when it was actually good.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Just finished the Foley doc', shit is good.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Ive ordered every ppv since august (besides ec) and I will order extreme rules I love the current product unlike most and I usually have the money so I support the company I love. Besides my little brother snd sister like to watch with me


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

COREY. YOUR THOUGHTS ON NO WAY OUT 2012.

Just got home from University since the semester just ended and I was very pleased to see the DVD on my bed when I got here. Watching Dolph-Sheamus now and it's fucking awesome, fitting how the last Cena PPV match I need to watch is on a DVD I JUST got. I'll watch the whole show for the fuck of it though   .


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Foley vs Orton @ Backlash '04: Incredible war. Lots of cringe worthy moments. Would give ****1/2+

Foley vs Edge @ Wrestlemania 22(?): Great match but not on the level of Foley/Orton. **** for this one.

I realized that I've never seen the Backlash 04 triple threat rematch so on to that after Angle/UT from SD 03.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Gonna do a review on Unforgiven 2006, Cena/Edge has gone up a lot from watching it today.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Foley vs Orton @ Backlash '04: Incredible war. Lots of cringe worthy moments. Would give ****1/2+
> 
> Foley vs Edge @ Wrestlemania 22(?): Great match but not on the level of Foley/Orton. **** for this one.
> 
> I realized that I've never seen the Backlash 04 triple threat rematch so on to that after Angle/UT from SD 03.


Are you watching Taker/Angle online?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

robertdeniro said:


> The only victory i remember Austin had over HHH was in IYH:Buried Alive 1996.


Didn't he win at survivor series 2000? 
Austin is also my least favorite solely because he. Was historically awful in 98-99 and gets a free pass and people sct **** he wss having ***** classics during that period plus his run was short snd he never put people over


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Almost finished DTD, just got the chamber match to go. Review up soon!


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> So I read a report that said Rock doesn't want to work Lesnar any more and wants to fight for the streak next year. BE AFRAID CAL.
> 
> :taker


Gross. Cena or retire for taker that's the only matcb left for him the franchise vs the GOAT

Rocks return only thing I enjoyed was wm29 because cena finally got to kick his ass and 4igbt the embarrassment and the black eye that rock beating cena and becoming champion gave the wwe and all of itd current roster and fans who still support their product


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> COREY. YOUR THOUGHTS ON NO WAY OUT 2012.
> 
> Just got home from University since the semester just ended and I was very pleased to see the DVD on my bed when I got here. Watching Dolph-Sheamus now and it's fucking awesome, fitting how the last Cena PPV match I need to watch is on a DVD I JUST got. I'll watch the whole show for the fuck of it though   .


Have it on dvd but haven't watched it yet.  Got it for Christmas last year. 



Big Z said:


> Almost finished DTD, just got the chamber match to go. Review up soon!


Anything above * for the Chamber is a lie. LIE


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You're actually sitting through DTD? Kudos.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Just got home from University since the semester just ended and I was very pleased to see the DVD on my bed when I got here. Watching Dolph-Sheamus now and it's fucking awesome, fitting how the last Cena PPV match I need to watch is on a DVD I JUST got. I'll watch the whole show for the fuck of it though   .


Dolph/Sheamus is good, an easy ****1/2*. 



Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Didn't he win at survivor series 2000?


I believe that match ended in a no-contest. Due to, you know, Austin dropping HHH from a fucking forklift! Only in the attitude era...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Imagine if Heyman got to run with his idea and Punk made Big Show submit in the first two minutes of the match :mark: :mark:.

JESUS if Heyman wasn't such an awful businessman....

Sheamus-Ziggler was fucking nearly epic, and it gets followed by a fucking SHITTY TUXEDO MATCH? UGH.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> Foley vs Orton @ Backlash '04: Incredible war. Lots of cringe worthy moments. Would give ****1/2+
> 
> Foley vs Edge @ Wrestlemania 22(?): Great match but not on the level of Foley/Orton. **** for this one.


I rate them around the same. Both are very good matches. Orton/Foley was more about the story and establishing the young Orton as the Legend Killer in a brutal match, Edge/Foley was more about all out violence and revenge on Edge's part while establishing Edge too.



GOATAntics said:


> Gonna do a review on Unforgiven 2006, Cena/Edge has gone up a lot from watching it today.


Good to hear that's it's gone up, seeing as the majority here shit on that match. I've watched it 6 or 7 times and it never goes down for me, really like the match. I don't really get the criticism of you could see the spots coming, when that's obvious in many TLC matches and wrestling matches in general, for example, I often know when Cena's going to hit his comeback sequence or when HBK was going to hit Elbow Drop, or when Triple H was going to hit his spinebuster etc...


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

ECW would still be owned by Vince


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't get Heyman man. The extent of his creativity with ECW I felt was around the 1995 timeframe when he brought in Eddie/Jericho/Benoit/Mysterio along with Austin for a short period of time, making ECW's roster in 1995 superior to both of the other major companies. Then he goes ahead and books these terrible matches with no real story (90 percent of ECW matches) or structure, that makes no sense?

Then when he was with WWE, he was back to being a genius again. I think PAUL E understands how to get the most out of the talent he has TBH, because when the talent wasn't there for ECW he always exentuated the positives and hid the negatives (as stated in the RAFOECW DVD).

Christian vs Cody Rhodes is SUCH an underrated/GREAT match. SOO CLOSE to four stars for me, that shit was fucking awesome. FATAL FOUR WAY TAG UP NEXT.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Are you watching Taker/Angle online?


downloading from 2003 SD pack.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Rhodes/Christian from No Way Out?


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

[/QUOTE] I believe that match ended in a no-contest. Due to, you know, Austin dropping HHH from a fucking forklift! Only in the attitude era...[/QUOTE]

Yea i hate the AE not going to lie I cannot believe I ate that shit up as a kid smh. I remember watching that match Idk why I don't recall that ending? Lol

Anyone have a link for eddie/benoit smackdown 2003?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yep, the No Way Out match. IIRC the Over the Limit match was good, but nothing overly special.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Yea, Rhodes and Christan on their own are always very enjoyable with the right opponet but both of them against each other is even better. :cody


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Besides the AWFUL piece of Wrestlecrap that is the tuxedo match, this PPV is INSANELY good so far and a prime candidate for most underrated show of the PG Era (let's see how the last few matches pan out before I jump to any conclusions).

OMFG WE GET A TRIPLE H PROMO IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS. GOAT PPV.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Besides the AWFUL piece of Wrestlecrap that is the tuxedo match, this PPV is INSANELY good so far and a prime candidate for most underrated show of the PG Era (let's see how the last few matches pan out before I jump to any conclusions).
> 
> OMFG WE GET A *TRIPLE H* PROMO IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS. GOAT PPV.


Speaking of Haitch, your post in the _Cornett says some bullshit about HHH_ thread was awesome.

:clap


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@KOK I want to transfer to your college, my semester doesn't end for another 3 weeks


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ECW December to Dismember 2006

So this is one of the lowest selling PPV's in WWE history, and is widely regarded as one of the worst PPV's of all time too. We all know the story of Paul Heyman's plans for the show and how things were changed against his wishes which essentially caused him to leave the company for 6 years. But is the show REALLY that bad? Was it worth quitting over? I remember sod all about this one, including the matches as only 2 were announced prior to the event, and they still only advertise those 2 matches on the actual DVD cover! As well as advertising WM 23 too. Which is odd. Seriously, look at the back cover of the DVD. Bottom right... WM 23 logo.

MNM Vs The Hardy Boys

I love the 4 way ladder match that takes place at Armageddon a few weeks after this that involves both teams, and I love their RR tag match as well. So I'm expecting this to be good at the very least.

Fuck me, did Jeff get fucking FAT in 06 and I didn't notice? Oh wait, might have been the IC belt, he had it under his t-shirt LOL. Shame Matt couldn't use that same excuse in a couple of years time...

SHE'S A CRACK WHORE chants at Melina, which she responds to with a very loud scream. That'll teach those fake ECW fans!

LOL at MNM trying to do the Hardy's schtick in the ring. Poetry in Motion looks terrible . Thankfully we are saved from an attempted Twist of Fate and Swanton combination. :lmao at the ECW chants because they do some high flying moves. The fake ECW fans don't even know WHY they should chant ECW :lmao. 

Thing I liked most about this match was the teased finish with the Hardy's showing MNM how POM is done correctly, then go for the TOF + Swanton combination... only for Nitro to drag Mercury out of the ring and Jeff crashes and burns!

Match is really like 2 matches in one, due to having 2 FIP sections to it. The first one is average as hell, with Matt being FIP, and MNM really not doing a damn thing to make their work over portion of the match look good.

Then we go into the second match, after the crash and burn of Jeff, and this time he takes a beating, and MNM actually do a good job at controlling. They work over Jeff's back nicely, which was the smart thing to do given the fact Jeff just missed the Swanton.

Great teamwork from MNM, and come cool double team moves to continue to hurt Jeff's back too. 

After the hot tag, we get Matt and Jeff attempting... something that ends up with Nitro hitting a hurricanrana from the ropes to Jeff... but the whole set up looked terrible and confusing and awkward and fuck lol.

Finishing stretch has some sweet false finishes, before the Hardy's finally get the win.

Overall... mostly really good, but take the first 10 minutes off the match and it could have been great. Still prefer their RR encounter, but hey, a good match on DTD!

Rating: ***1/4 - 2

Matt Striker Vs Balls Mahoney

Oh sweet jebus this looks terrible on paper. Striker has a picture of his head on his arse. Yeah. So this is apparently a "Striker's Rules" match. No eye gouging. No hair pulling. No moves off the top rope. And no foul language. Yawn.

Well huh, this isn't actually that bad. They do some nice shit at the start with Balls surprising people, mainly Striker, by actually "wrestling" instead of brawling (not really sure why, because let's face it, hair pulling and eye gouging isn't a big part of brawling lol). Then they go to lock up and for some reason, Balls randomly (and I do mean randomly, as he has NO REASON IN THE SLIGHTEST) looks away allowing Striker to deck him in the face and from there he does some nifty arm work. Did kinda lol at Striker essentially doing a back bump onto Ball's arm at one point though. Looked a little dumb .

Then Balls wins. Seems a little out of nowhere, but whatever. Mostly a fun match, which surprised me.

Rating: **1/2 - 1

Backstage Sabu is on the floor not moving. So it's already better than any of his matches. BULLSHIT chants from the fans.

Elijah Burke & Sylvester Terkay Vs Little Guido Maritato & Tony Mamaluke

I smell a squash match! And I hope to jebus it is. I don't wanna see any of these guys wrestler each other for very long. I like Nunzio (Guido), but fuck, everyone else in this match can GO TO HELL.

Remember Trinity in the WWE? Well she was there for like a second or two. 

I wish this match was only here for a second or two. Lasts far longer than it should have, and it was fucking terrible. Not even a squash either. Go away please.

Rating: DUD - 0

Davari Vs Tommy Dreamer

Urgh. I'm starting to realise why they didn't announce anything other than the tag match and EC. Nobody in their right fucking mind would have ordered this show knowing the matches :lmao. Ok, so hardly anyone ordered not knowing them, but still... not knowing left some wonder and the potential for some good matches.

90% of this match is just Divari applying a sleeper hold to Dreamer. Khali gets sent to the back early on. Divari wins by cheating. I feel cheated by watching this.

Khali murders Dreamer at the end. Yey.

Rating: DUD - 0

Paul Heyman replaces the injured Sabu with Harcore Holly in the Elimination Chamber match.

Mike Knox & Kelly Kelly Vs Kevin Thorn & Ariel

MIKE KNOX. He doesn't seem as big as he is now, and he doesn't have the beard. So he probably sucks. Speaking of sucks; Kelly Kelly. She wishes Punk good luck in the EC match later tonight.

Do people still have a hard on for Kevin Thorn? I remember everyone creaming over his Mordecai gimmick, then creaming again over the Thorn "Vampire" gimmick too, and then of course raging because he got released. Even though he fucking sucked. And not in the Vampire way. Or Kelly Kelly way. Well, in one of the Kelly Kelly ways. She sucks on multiple levels. I'm saying she sucks a lot of cock and is a terrible wrestler. Which one is Thorn? Terrible wrestler, obviously. As far as I know anyway. Not that it matters, but I don't think he does. Suck cock, that is. He definitely sucks as a wrestler.

Is everyone but Kelly Kelly a heel in this match btw? Oh hello Ariel's arse. What was I saying? Oh yeah this sucks. Mostly. Knox actually shows signs of being good. He isn't "flying bear" good yet, but there are signs of potential. 

After the guys try their best to not suck, they tag in the ladies, and :lmao Kelly Kelly might be up there as one of the worst female wrestlers of all time. Ariel gets a pass because of that ass (yeah I said ass instead of arse, but I needed to for the rhyme to work so SHUT UP). That and she isn't horrible either. Kelly kelly just needs to quit the business and... oh she did. Took far too long but she finally did.

:lmao at Kelly's reaction to Knox not accepting the tag and walking away, leaving Ariel to murder her.

Bad, bad match. Only redeming quality is that ARSE. Which makes it better than the last couple of matches.

For some reason The Sandman shows up to save Kelly Kelly. Because. That's all I got.

Rating: 1/4* - 0

The Big Show Vs CM Punk Vs RVD Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Test Vs Bobby Lashley - ECW Title Extreme Elimination Chamber Match

What is an Extreme Elimination Chamber match you ask? An Elimination Chamber match but with WEAPONS. Wish they'd bring it back every now and then tbh. Spice things up a little.

Holly and RVD start this thing, which I guess is ok given that RVD sliced open Holly's back with that table not too long ago so it gives them some time alone inside the chamber. Of course Heyman's plan for the match was a lot better.

They do mostly good stuff together for the first 5 minutes, so nothing really to complain about here even with RVD in the ring lol. With the 5 minutes up, the first person out of a pod is... CM PUNK! Fans are firmly, FIRMLY behind the Second City Saint. But apparently popularity doesn't mean anything in WWE... except if you are popular AND Vince likes you.

Sweeeeeet use of the chair that Punk brings in. Love the legdrop counter with it. RVD gets absolutely KILLED with the chair a couple of times. Holly catching Punk and swinging him into the side of the chamber makes me smile. Why? I'm not right in the head. But it looked cool. 

Bah, things were looking good... and then Test entered. Hopefully he isn't going to be fucking useless. He has a crowbar. So at least he can hit people with that rather than attempt to wrestle. :lmao in less than a minute Test is down and nearly out. Ahhh fuck. CM Punk is eliminated first. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. That's what I'm chanting right now. The fans aren't though. They loved Punk at the start, but since he was eliminated by an ECW Original its ok apparently. So Punk is gone. Guess that was sticking it to Heyman. "Oh, you want CM Punk to win? ELIMINATED FIRST!"

Test boots Holly in the face... ref counts to 2... everyone is confused and Holly is eliminated. Well done Test. First move you've hit that wasn't a weapon shot and you managed to fuck up. He makes up for it at least by hitting an elbow drop off the top of a pod to RVD who has a steel chair on him! Bye bye RVD. Oh, NOW the fans chant BULLSHIT? But not when Punk was eliminated? THAT is Bullshit.

Lashley is is out next, so we get Lashley with a table Vs Test. OH HOW EXCITING. The Basham Brothers aka Heyman's private security attack the referee on the outside and prevent the pod from getting unlocked. SO how does he get out? HE BREAKS THROUGH THE STEEL CHAIN ROOF WITH A WOODEN TABLE.

Test gets mauled. Lashley spears him. And he have a full minute with Lashley ON HIS OWN IN THE RING :lmao. So how does Lashley fill time? HE THROWS THE TABLE AT BIG SHOW'S POD :lmao.

Show finally gets into the match and he has a barbed wire baseball bat. Lashley has a chair as a shield. The bat gets stuck in the chain, and for some reason the referee gets it loose...

Lashley throws Big Show through a pod, so how does Show respond? By smashing himself through the other side :lmao. TAKE THAT LASHLEY!

Lashley wins. And goes on to have an absolutely dire title reign that also results in Vince McMahon holding the title.

Match overall isn't bad. Far from it. Plenty of good here, but there is also some stupid shit too. Punk being eliminated first. Test fucking up a PIN FALL. Lashley in general. Enough to stop it being a great match, but not enough to stop me from liking it quite a bit. 

Rating: *** - 2

CAL SCALE OVERALL - 5

5 points overall on the CAL SCALE isn't exactly good... but there are still some events far worse than this. A handful of RR and WM events are worse than this show. Just a shame that really, outside of the opening tag and the main event there isn't anything worth seeing. Balls/Striker might not be bad, but I wouldn't recommend anyone go out and watch it.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Just wanted to say, I'm an old school Rock fan but his return was lackluster. His promos were tired for the most part, ( I did like a few of them ) and the matches just wern't what expected. Now Rock was never some techinical wizard, more of a brawler and could sell pretty well imo.. I didn't really get any of that.

I enjoyed his return from nostalgia but I really did not need to see another Cena Match.. especially one where Cena has a redemption story that screams heel turn and we get hugs instead. Fuck that match.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Undertaker vs Angle - Smackdown 9/4/03: Match was very good with counters and the same stuff from the NWO 06 match but a lot less predictable. I did like Angle and Takers selling a lot more in this match. Taker seemed to be legit hurt from nagging injuries because he was a lot slower than in the 06 encounter. The lack of a finish hurts this in my eyes so I'm putting it a peg lower than their 06 match at ****1/4 because it was on the cusp of being epic but it didn't get there . Thanks for recommending, GOATAntics.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Rock's best match since his return was the 1st Cena one for me.On the mic I think he gets too much shit for his material his delivery is always top notch hence the connection he has with a live crowd. . His comedy is always a bit hit or miss with me but his serious stuff has been great . He's struggling because people to see all the catchphrases etc when they pay to see him.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

lol why is there no Hunter vs Flair on the Cage Match set


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Five worst ppvs imo
Wm2
Kotr95
Wm11
Dtd
Wm15


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I liked the Rock's return. Most of his promos have been very good - great except the story time promos which I felt were still good but were irrelevant to the feud. One of my favourite promos from Rock this year was the promo where he gets attacked by the Shield. I love this line *"You got a man who will stand in front of you, here in this ring, outside of this ring, outside of this arena, outside in the street, I will stand before you and I will rip your face off!"* His matches were _okay_ overall. When you consider that Rock was away for 8 years, aged and had stamina issues yet still performed for 30 minutes in his first singles match and was doing a high flying move near the end of the match, I'd say that it's impressive. Obviously the matches against CM Punk exposed his match condition even more because they were more intense and they were meant to be a fast paced brawl but unfortunetly, Rock couldn't cope with that so it led to more restholds. I thought Rock's condition was better in the match against Cena at WM 29. I can understand some criticism towards the Rock but it's all to do with subjectivity. Some like it, some don't. I know for a fact that KOK likes it though :cena3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Rock's best match since returning is most certainly the Cena match at WM 28, though it was no classic. I actually preferred the finish to the 29 match. Troll Cena faking out Rock by teasing the elbow = GOLD.

@Cal - DAT REVIEW:lmao:lmao


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Rock's return was very entertaining for me up until the last few months.


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

Watching the Jim Cornette YouShoot. Great so far, but this Cornette quote about Jericho breaking his arm was just gold: "Now I got Lance Storm, one Thrill Seeker. He could only seek half the thrills."


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

What would you guys rate jericho/punk from ER. Seen a lot of different opinions on this match.

Had it at ****1/2 on last watch


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I give that ER match ★★¾. Really don't see the big deal about it at all. Their WM28 match on the other hand, a solid ★★★★.

-------------------

Watching Unforgiven 06 now. Done with the boring shit (tag title match) so the final four matches should be exciting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Excellent post Starbuck, really encapsulates what The Rock can mean to an individual while also highlighting why individuals such as myself are so against the guy ; I just never found his schtick funny or anything resembling entertaining apart from a few separate instances. Another big issue I have with the guy is that he never really sold the seriousness of a feud to me, EVER. I know people will claim that "that's always Rock's style though", but that's the point ; I never really enjoyed his style and even as a KID found what he did to be a little overrated.
> 
> Nice to out things into perspective from a Rock fan's point of view though, as if you do enjoy his stuff you might enjoy some of his work from the last few years. Rock's also the only person besides Punk to really make Cena elevate his game on the mic over the last few years, and it was nice to see him give Cena that moment, even if the match was a horrible abomination on all of mankind.


My favourite Rock is actually Hollywood Rock because that's a character I can fully appreciate as an adult. When I go back and watch some of Rock's stuff from the AE, I'm the same as you in that sometimes I can find it a bit corny and it doesn't do much for me whereas when I was a kid, and he wasn't fighting HHH of course lol, I thought he was the funniest thing ever. But Hollywood Rock never fails to entertain me and what's the funny part about that? The fact that as a kid I didn't like him as much because the humour obviously went over my head, you know? 

Rock has been part of some of my favourite WWE programs/matches of all time and there's a strong nostalgic attachment there for me. I mean, I freaked the fuck out during that YABBA DABBA promo at Mania 27 because it was the first time I had ever seen Rock live and I thought it was awesome that he was making us chant that. Don't judge me please, I got caught up in the moment. But while I mark for him, I don't think it's fair to say that this return has all been fantastic stuff because it hasn't. The good parts have been great though and have entertained me and that's all I can ask for really. I'd rather have him come back and provide at least some memorable moments for me than him not come back and his last appearance be whatever many years ago.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Been on a mission this week.

The streak DVD

v Diesel - ***1/4
v Kane - ***1/2
v HHH - ***3/4
v Ric Flair - ***1/2
v Big Show/A Train - **1/2
v Kane - *1/2
v Orton - ***1/2
v Batista - ****
v Edge - ****1/4
v HBK - *****
v HBK - ****3/4
v HHH - ***1/2
v HHH - ****1/2
v CM Punk - ****1/2


Extreme Rules 2012

Orton v Kane - **1/2
Bryan v Sheamus - ****
Punk v Jericho - ***1/2
Lesner v Cena - ****1/2

Lesner DVD

v Rock - ****
v Taker, Unforgiven - ***1/2
v Taker, Hell in a Cell - ****1/2


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Haven't seen if this has been posted yet but fuck it I don't want to start a new thread either so...


Credit: WWEDVDNews.com

Here is the complete listing for the WWE's War Games: WCW's Most Notorious Matches DVD & Blu-ray…

Disc 1
War Games Match
The Super Powers (Dusty Rhodes, The Road Warriors, Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering) vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard & J.J. Dillon)
Great American Bash – Atlanta, GA • July 4, 1987

Great American Bash On Tour

War Games Match
Dusty Rhodes, The Road Warriors, Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard) & The War Machine
Great American Bash – Miami, FL • July 31, 1987

A Different Type of Animal

Tower of Doom Match
The Road Warriors, "Dr. Death" Steve Williams, Ron Garvin & Jimmy Garvin vs. Kevin Sullivan, Mike Rotunda, Al Perez, Russian Assassin & Ivan Koloff
Great American Bash • July 10, 1988

Brutality

War Games Match
Dusty Rhodes, Lex Luger, Nikita Koloff, "Dr. Death" Steve Williams & Paul Ellering vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Barry Windham, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard & J.J. Dillon)
Great American Bash Tour – Greensboro, NC • July 16, 1988

Live Events

War Games Match
The Road Warriors, The Midnight Express & "Dr. Death" Steve Williams vs. The Fabulous Freebirds & The Samoan Swat Team
Great American Bash • July 23, 1989

Disc 2
Getting Replaced

War Games Match
The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Sid Vicious, Barry Windham & Larry Zbyszko) vs. Sting, Brian Pillman, & The Steiner Brothers
WCW WrestleWar • February 24, 1991

Talent Change

War Games Match
Sting's Squadron (Sting, Nikita Koloff, Dustin Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat & Barry Windham) vs. The Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Steve Austin, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude)
WCW WrestleWar • May 17, 1992

The Almighty Dollar

War Games Match
Sting, Davey Boy Smith, Dustin Rhodes & The Shockmaster vs. Sid Vicious, Vader & Harlem Heat
WCW Fall Brawl • September 19, 1993

A Really Special Night

War Games Match
Dusty Rhodes, Dustin Rhodes & The Nasty Boys vs. Terry Funk, Arn Anderson, Bunkhouse Buck & Colonel Robert Parker
WCW Fall Brawl • September 18, 1994

Disc 3
Pride in Their Product

War Games Match
The Hulkamaniacs (Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Lex Luger & Sting) vs. The Dungeon of Doom (Kamala the Ugandan Giant, The Zodiac, The Shark & Meng)
WCW Fall Brawl • September 17, 1995

Glimmer of a Fire

War Games Match
Team nWo ("Hollywood" Hulk Hogan, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash & A Mystery Partner) vs. Team WCW (Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Lex Luger & Sting)
WCW Fall Brawl • September 15, 1996

Pulling Out Every Stop

War Games Match
Team nWo (Kevin Nash, Buff Bagwell, Syxx & Konnan) vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Steve McMichael, *Chris Benoit* & Curt Hennig) :mark:
WCW Fall Brawl • September 14, 1997

The Talent Made The War Games

War Games Match
Team WCW (Diamond Dallas Page, Roddy Piper & The Warrior) vs. Team Hollywood ("Hollywood" Hulk Hogan, Stevie Ray & Bret Hart) vs. Team Wolfpac (Kevin Nash, Sting & Lex Luger)
WCW Fall Brawl • September 13, 1998

The End of the War Games

War Games 2000 Match
Sting, Booker T, Goldberg & KroniK vs. Kevin Nash, Jeff Jarrett, Scott Steiner & The Harris Brothers
WCW Monday Nitro • September 4, 2000

The Main Event

Blu-ray Exclusives
Rage in the Cage Match
Brian Lee, Jimmy Golden, Ricky Morton, Robert Fuller & Robert Gibson vs. Kevin Sullivan, Killer Kyle, The Tazmaniac , Stan Lane & Tom Prichard
Smoky Mountain Wrestling: Volunteer Slam II • May 9, 1993

Ultimate Jeopardy Steel Cage Match
Tommy Dreamer, Public Enemy & The Pitbulls vs. Raven, Stevie Richards, The Eliminators & The Heavenly Bodies
ECW December to Dismember • December 9, 1995

Ultimate Jeopardy Steel Cage Match
Buh Buh Ray Dudley, D-Von Dudley & Mustafa Saed vs. New Jack, Axl Rotten & Balls Mahoney
ECW CyberSlam • April 3, 1999

War Games Fantasy Booking with Dusty Rhodes.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Agreed about Hollywood Rock. LOVED that character and promos. I thought Rock was terrific as the heel at Mania 19, but at the end broke character to show love to Austin.

Regarding Punk/Jericho last year: I actually preferred the Extreme Rules match to their Mania encounter, though I still the Mania match is very good. But, I REALLY like gimmick matches.

Edit: Forgot the STARS. 

WM - ****
ER - ****1/2


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

watching cena/punk from money in the bank after AGES. Damn punk's theme just hit and the crowd went nuts, this crowd's fucking amazing.

THIS CROWDS GIVING ME GOOSEBUMPS BROTHA


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^^ modern day classic, i watched it couple days ago still holds up ***** best of their epic series


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

This dude just said hbk was the most overrated wrestler of all time.. fpalm I'm about to punt a baby. ... fpalm this can't be life


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> This dude just said hbk was the most overrated wrestler of all time.. fpalm I'm about to punt a baby. ... fpalm this can't be life


^^^^^^^ blasphemy  Hbk is GOAT


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tim Legend said:


> War Games Match
> Dusty Rhodes, The Road Warriors, Nikita Koloff & Paul Ellering vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard) & The War Machine
> Great American Bash – Miami, FL • July 31, 1987
> 
> ...


Oh my God have these been released before? Amazing.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^^^^^ blasphemy  Hbk is GOAT


Exactly. If I could reach through my phone screen hed be dead aalready


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha Michael Hickenbottom is the greatest to ever step in a ring period


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Speaking of HBK..

Wrestlemania XI
Vs. Diesel
WWF Title Match
***3/4​
Another HBK match I missed when it first aired. This is I feel a match that doesn't get talked about much but should. The ending is very by the books so that's why it's not **** imo but to me it's a classic big man/ little man match. Diesel overpowers HBK for the first 12 mins, finally HBK turns the tide when his enforcer gets involved and then it's HBK picking the bones til the end. Simple structure, I just love how HBK is a ragdoll the first half and like a rabid pitbull the second half. Nash is not one of my favorite but he's not too bad given the right opponent. Worth checking out.

You know it's surprising to me just how athletic Shawn was in the ring.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> haha Michael Hickenbottom is the greatest to ever step in a ring period


Bar none. Also on tbe same page one dude said ric Flair was and another said taker was. The world's school systems are failing our children three of the 5 GOATS just got called the most overrated. I guess they aren't "smarky" enough for punk fans


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

who is brainwashing these kids ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That "most overrated wrestler" thread is actually pretty stupid on the whole (minus a few posts). People calling Khali and Ryback overrated as if people refer to them as GOAT. And fucking KONNAN, too. I want to know who thinks he's GOAT.

Then the same Punk hater who manages to talk about low ratings every time Punk gets mentioned showed up and also said HBK was overrated. 

DAT HBK THOUGH = in the GOAT discussion for sure.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Lazyking said:


> Speaking of HBK..
> 
> Wrestlemania XI
> Vs. Diesel
> ...


Check out michaels vs diesel GFBE96 ****1/4 IMO nashs' best match


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Check out michaels vs diesel GFBE96 ****1/4 IMO nashs' best match


Yeah, I will. I'm going thru HBK's big matches year by year so I'll be at the match by tomorrow probably.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Good thing I havent gone in that thread, I just cant understand how one can say Hbk is overrated.Me being a huge mark for the guy aside, the man had all but perfected the wwe style of wresting, and is on another planet with it comes to ring the whole package bar the nature boy and maybe taker


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Lazyking said:


> Yeah, I will. I'm going thru HBK's big matches year by year so I'll be at the match by tomorrow probably.


Its a really fun match primal duche shawn at his finest lol. Nash actually has a few solid matches for someone so putrid In the ring


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, this HIAC match with DX and the McMahons/Big Show was brutal. The ending was just fucked up. Only three to go now!



Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Bar none. Also on tbe same page one dude said ric Flair was and another said taker was. The world's school systems are failing our children three of the 5 GOATS just got called the most overrated. I guess they aren't "smarky" enough for punk fans


You called the GOAT overrated, so it goes both ways.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

since we our talkng about the real great one :hbk2 how underrated is his 2003 run.
just some of his matches during that year

classic at mania with y2j(one of my favorties of altime)
hhh raw 2003
mania rematch on raw
flair bad blood
orton unforgiven
team Austin vs bishoff


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> Damn, this HIAC match with DX and the McMahons/Big Show was brutal. The ending was just fucked up. Only three to go now!
> 
> 
> 
> You called the GOAT overrated, so it goes both ways.


In 98, 99 yes he was great in 97, 2001, 2003 but people act like he was great every year everh match. Michaels was great everh year a d is clearly the GOAT his mania matches alone give him that imo


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

man could wrestle a broom and it might be a **** match, why you have to leave us HBK


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Most of shawns year's are underrated


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

side note some guy actually made a thread say the shield is forgettable haha


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

His match with Kama at KOTR was awful.  No fault of HBK lol.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Review moved to next page


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Hbk96rRko09 said:


> In 98, 99 yes he was great in 97, 2001, 2003 but people act like he was great every year everh match. Michaels was great everh year a d is clearly the GOAT his mania matches alone give him that imo


No, he's liked because he was entertaining. More often than not, he delivered in big matches and on the mic, very few can match him. No one has said every match he had is great.

And if I base who the greatest is on best ring worker, Chris Benoit would be my #1 by far. Although I may be biased since I think I'm yet to see a match involving him that has bored me. Shawn, on the other hand, is half responsible for the most boring match I've ever seen. (HIAC with HHH)


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

HBK is the perfect WWE style wrestler.. Benoit I felt was one dimensional. Great wrestler but when he was outside his comfort zone, I'd rather have other guys.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

When did this turn into a HBK circle jerk? :vince2


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

*John Cena vs. CM Punk Money In The Bank 2011*

Just finished watching Cena/Punk from Money in the bank. What a fucking match, great story, great counters, great crowd, lots of drama, great near falls and some pretty darn good wrestling. It was just a grueling battle and both men literally gave it their all in order to win this HUGE match, you could really tell how high the stakes were just by watching them go at it tooth and nail for over 30 minutes and dishing out finishers and move's they have never used before. I loved how cena a guy who normally keeps his cool almost lost his composure after punk kicked out of the 2nd AA. The crowd gave punk that extra bit of energy and kept him going as he eventually went on to win with a GTS. The ending which saw Laranitus and Mcmahon coming out gave me flashbacks of the Montreal screw job and gave a good summary of how much the WWE title meant to the company and how Vince would do anything for punk not to leave with it. Cena getting punk in the stfu near the last minutes had me on the edge of my seats and I really felt like laranitus was going to ring the bell and screw punk over but low and behold cena sticks to his motto of "hustle, loyalty and respect" and knocks laranitus out as he tells vince that he refuses to win in a cheap way. Cena rolls back into the ring only for the sly, cunning opportunist cm punk to nail a thunderous GTS and get the ONE! TWO! THREE! as the crowd erupted and went fucking nuts. It was emotional as hell seeing punk work his ass of and win the holy grail of the wwe, the wwe title in his hometown of Chicago. Vince is out of his mind and is calling for del rio to cash in his newly won money in the bank; the crowd is once again on the edge of their seat and watching live I had this bad feeling that vince was about to troll us. Del rio runs into the ring and bam! a huge roundhouse kick to the temple and del rio lands face first on the canvas as the crowd once again goes nuts! Punk smirks at vince almost mocking him and indirectly saying "Not happening", punk jumps into the crowd blows vince a kiss goodbye and runs through the Chicago crowd and out of the arena! That Has to be one of the greatest moments in modern WWE history. 33 odd minutes literally flew by, what a classic. This match was near enough perfection but what dragged it down in my opinion was a pretty slow start which consisted of a lot of headlocks and laying on the mat. The first half of the match also had a few botches and slow periods and I don't know if it's just me but I could hear punk and cena whispering spots to each other quiet a bit, nothing major though. Loved watching this match after such a long time, definitely lived up to the hype and it portrayed Cena, Punk and Vince's characters really, really well and obviously contained great wrestling which had the crowd engaged from start to finish. Brilliant match overall 

*****3/4*

Thoughts on my review ? And was I the only one hearing punk and cena constantly whispering to each other or am I just hearing things? Haha


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Just of technical skills yes benoit was better but hbk was the bedt all around he could adapt to all sizes all match st6les etc there is a reason he was alwaus in inaugural matches for the ww3 because vince knee he would set tbhe bar the highest, the man is a innovator and in the wwe no ome has had more quality matches he has the best matfh quality in the best company= GOAT


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

most believe benoit was probably the best technical wrestler (although I believe it bret was) but hbk was the best all round wrestler of all time. Made complete stiffs (Sid, Nash etc) look decent against him while putting on all time classic with other good-great wrestlers. He perfected thee wwe style of wrestling


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

You know there is so many different styles of wrestling, I think HBK excels at the WWE style but some others I don't think he would do so well. I also have a feeling that most of his best matches happened in the last decade then they did in 90s.. at least consistent wise partially because alot of the guys in the 90s for his singles run were subpar workers


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm with my girlfriend right now but I needed to comment on something for a quick second.

I like Shawn and all but ......

BENOIT > > > > Shawn.

Stop listening to the WWE's propaganda PLZ.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Again, Benoit is the better pure tech. wrestler if that's all you're basing it on but he did not evoke the emotion that HBK did or have the legendary gimmick matches that HBK had in WWE.

a strictly one on one match with not alot of backstory? Give me Benoit. For a perfomance and Show? it's HBK 

AINEC


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I fucking hate Michaels' 2000s run. He wasn't too good in 92-93, either.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

I agree with redskin25 and Lazyking benoit is far and away the best in a technical match but when you add all the variables and such into the equation hbk slaugthers anyone he is the king of the wwes brand of wrestling taker bret amd cena are the next three in terms of number of quality matches as well as angle I suppose


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I hate this generalization that Benoit was only a technical wrestler who couldn't excel at gimmick matches. He has arguably the greatest ladder match ever against Jericho from Royal Rumble 2001. He could carry a big man like Viscera to a watchable match and he could certainly perform as an underdog overcoming the odds too, like when he won the Royal Rumble or went against Kane where he could only retain by submission. It's not his fault they never gave him the chance to participate in Hell in a Cell or other brutal matches. BENOIT > MICHALES & EVERYONE ELSE.

------------------------------------------------------------

*Unforgiven 2006:*

Johnny Nitro vs Jeff Hardy - ★★★½
- Good way to open the show with the IC title being defended. They get plenty of time and make the most of it. Lots of good back and forth action and nearfalls. Crowd was also into it so not much to complain about. I think the finish was pretty weak, though. All it took was a simple boot from the outside? On another note, it was funny to hear JR's response when Melina did her scream and some fans mocked her. "Lots of dogs barking here in Ontario".

Umaga vs Kane - ★★
- Nothing memorable but not terribly bad either. Doesn't last much long and ends on a double count-out. Served its purpose as an undercard match I guess.

Spirit Squad vs Highlanders - ★
- SS probably have the highest "skip" ratio from anyone I've ever seen. Other than a few times when DX have squashed them, I've skipped EVERYTHING involving them when watching Raw shows from this year. Can't say I've cared any more about Highlanders but since it's a PPV match, I always have to watch everything for a fair review. That said, I should've just skipped this too as it's BORING and the crowd is completely dead. Struggling to find a fuck to give about this.

DX (Triple H & Shawn Michaels) vs Vince & Shane McMahon & Big Show - ★★★¾
- A really fun all out war that finally puts a rest to this McMahons/DX feud at last. Good way to go out for a terrible storyline inside Hell in a Cell, though. This is just bloody and brutal. Starts off with both McMahons bleeding just 3 minutes into it and it keeps on going. The McMahons always have Big Show as their equalizer here and therefore, they dominate a large portion of this by squashing Shawn Michaels around. Everyone ends up being bloody and that cut HHH has around his ear looked gruesome. In the end, HHH comes back from outside the ring to save HBK and they make their comeback by destroying every opponent. The finish is pretty nasty as they expose Show's ass and shove Vince's bloody face in it. Then he is officially put out of his misery with a tough sledgehammer shot to the back of his neck. It almost felt like the hammer went through his neck, it looked that bad! Gotta give Vince props for taking all the punishment he took in this match.

Trish Stratus vs Lita - ★★★¼
- One last time, two of the greatest women's wrestler go at it in Trish's final match which also takes place in her hometown of Toronto. They even get over 10 minutes and make the most of it. Other than some small slow portions, particularly Trish's overly choreographed hurricanrana, this is a really good match and one of the best from the women's division I've seen. Crowd is into it and both put a lot of effort into their work. Trish catches Lita in the Sharpshooter for a hometown pop and wins by submission her sevenths Women's Championship and gets the perfect send off as the champion in her hometown.

Randy Orton vs Carlito - ★★★
- Pretty random feud that started out of nowhere but at last, this is the final stop before Orton forms Rated RKO with Edge so Raw will be good to watch now. As for the match, it's decent but nothing special. They don't get much time to go at only 8 minutes but like some before, make the best out of it. Some good back and forth but otherwise a standard match that could've been better on TV. Finish is pretty cool as Orton counters Carlito's springboarding to an RKO, though.

John Cena vs Edge - ★★★★
- Admittedly, this has gone down for me a bit too. Not as much as others here who have been bashing it but it wasn't as epic as I remember it being. Some of the botches and carefully done spots kinda ruins the suspension of disbelief when enjoying a match like this. The finish felt overly planned out as they even have two referees hold the ladder to make sure no fuck-ups occur and before that, Cena had to place the second table where it was supposed to be because he FUed Lita too hard. Cena was also unwilling to release his grip of the ropes during a Sunset Flip Powerbomb which was the first botch. But now to the positives, both men take some big bumps by going through tables numerous times, some stiff chair shots and cool spots like the ladder Spear and 5 Knuckle Shuffle from a ladder. Crowd is also heavily into it as they are pro-Edge and anti-Cena. Edge falls through two tables and Cena unhooks the title to win his third title and start his year long reign. Great match but not as classic as I remember it before. Still a worthy main event. But I also think some bleeding wouldn't have hurt, specially with the chair shots to the head.

*Overall:* ★★★½ out of ★★★★★ (Another really good one-branded PPV here. Other than one or two matches, everything else is a hit and despite the lack of a HUGE classic match, I thoroughly enjoyed this. Great crowd, great card and memorable moments. I'll take it!)


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

What would you guys say were Chris Benoit's 10 greatest matches in the WWE? 
Same for HBK. 

Just want to make a comparison.


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't think he was only a technical wrestler bht he was mostly that and that's the only thing he had over michaels. Hbk in his career consistently and constantly had the nest match of the night and or year that's why he was wwes mariano rivera when they needed a big out in the clutch they always relied on him and he always delivered. I dont see how it's even debatable in the wwe he's king he mastered their style like no other period


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

*Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

Credit: WWEDVDNews.com

Here is the complete listing for the WWE's War Games: WCW's Most Notorious Matches DVD & Blu-ray… 

Pulling Out Every Stop

War Games Match Team nWo (Kevin Nash, Buff Bagwell, Syxx & Konnan) vs. The Four Horsemen (Ric Flair, Steve McMichael, Chris Benoit & Curt Hennig) WCW Fall Brawl • September 14, 1997

Will we actaully see Benoit or a ghost figure? Lawls

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

He'll obviously appear as normal but I assume they'll edit out commentary referencing him. Even though it makes no sense since they're not exactly hiding anything.

My reaction to this: ABOUT FUCKING TIME! :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Carlito1 (Jun 7, 2009)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

they will edit john cenas image over all his movements


----------



## King Gimp (Mar 31, 2012)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*



Choke2Death said:


> He'll obviously appear as normal but I assume they'll edit out commentary referencing him. Even though it makes no sense since they're not exactly hiding anything.
> 
> My reaction to this: ABOUT FUCKING TIME! :mark: :mark: :mark:


Yeah, they'll edit out his positive crowd reaction and such.
They'll even edit the commentators talking about Benoit out.

Also, about time? Benoit was in the Elimination Chamber DVD in 2010.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

Good for him. Oh wait.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> He'll obviously appear as normal but I assume they'll edit out commentary referencing him. Even though it makes no sense since they're not exactly hiding anything.
> 
> My reaction to this: ABOUT FUCKING TIME! :mark: :mark: :mark:


Exactly! Benoits my fave wrestler of all time so its fantastic news if it all plays out right lol 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

wasnt he already in elimination chamber like 3 years ago


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*



King Gimp said:


> Also, about time? Benoit was in the Elimination Chamber DVD in 2010.


I know, but that was an anthology so the match had to be included to make it a complete set. This time they take the liberty to include him as this is not a set that includes EVERYTHING from what the DVD is about.


----------



## Awww Shell Ya (Apr 17, 2013)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

Hopefully they`ll edit in a Charles Manson song for his entrance music and have Casey Anthony do commentary on the directors cut .


----------



## Riot (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

They need to blur Benoit out like the WWF logo and dub his name in with King saying "Puppies."


----------



## Hbk96rRko09 (Mar 13, 2009)

Hbk
Vs taker wrestlemania 25 *****
Vs taker wrestlemania 26*****
Vs taker hiac *****
Vs razor wrestlemania 10 *****
Vs hunter summerslam 2002 *****
Vs hart wrestlemania 12*****
Ve mankind mindgames ****3/4
Vs jericho wrestlemania 19 ****3/4
Vs angle wrestlemania 21 ****3/4
Vs cena raw 2007 ****1/2
With tons of other mstches ****1/2 ****/4 or **** he mastered wwe style

Benoit
Wrestlemania 20*****
Vs angle rr0****3/4
Vs jericho rr00 ****3/4
Vs hunter nm2000 ****1/2
Vs austin smackdown 01****1/2
Vs eddie smackdown 03****1/2
Backlash 04****1/2
Tb3 rest if benoits best work in wwe that I can think of is tag matches. Hes an legend but advantage michaels wwe is his canvas like jericho said and he hes Michaelangelo


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HWRP said:


> What would you guys say were Chris Benoit's 10 greatest matches in the WWE?
> Same for HBK.
> 
> Just want to make a comparison.


Benoit:
v Finlay Judgment Day 06
v Finlay 5/5/06
v Finlay 11/24/06
v Regal No Mercy 06
v Regal 7/16/05
Benoit/Jericho v Trip/Austin 5/21/01
v Austin 5/31/01
v Orton 1/13/06

Unsure about the last two. Rock at Fully Loaded, Michaels 5/3/04, 4/12/04 4-on-4 if you count it, haven't watched Jericho ladder match in a while...something else. Maybe the Guerrero match in 05, Edge match in 07. IDK, feels like I'm forgetting something. I've never watched the Orton match the night after SummerSlam (I don't think, anyway). I will one day.

Michaels:
Mind Games 
HIAC 1
Taker Mania 09
Rockers v Arn/Tully 1/23/89
Rockers v Arn/Tully 3/18/89 (Boston Garden - they had two matches that day, this one, and one at MSG)
Rockers v Orient Express Rumble 91
Razor Ramon WMX
Diesel GFBE
Cena WM23

Again, IDK about the rest. Mostly because I don't want to put something there that wouldn't hold up I'm not totally sure the Cena match and Razor match hold up as it is. I'd need to watch the longass Cena match again, the Razor match in 95, Austin KOTR, etc. Bulldog match at KOTR96 and Michaels/Autin v Owen/Bulldog are good place-holders, I guess. Plus, I've still never watched the 'clique' tag from 94.



Hbk96rRko09 said:


> Vs eddie smackdown 03****1/2


When's this from?


----------



## Redruum (Aug 8, 2012)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*

Yeah! Minus the part where he killed his entire family, he was awesome.......... oh damn, wait a minute.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Redruum said:


> Yeah! Minus the part where he killed his entire family, he was awesome.......... oh damn, wait a minute.


Yeah dude we know. Everyone knows! So id be nice if you could stop trolling Benoit threads just to state the fucking obvious! 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Redruum (Aug 8, 2012)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*



brandiexoxo said:


> Yeah dude we know. Everyone knows! So id be nice if you could stop trolling Benoit threads just to state the fucking obvious!
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


This would be my first Benoit thread, but ok.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Well it seems like everytime a Benoit thread pops up about his WRESTLING career someone has to shit all over the thread and make everyone feel iffy about the subject. We all are well aware of what happened! We don't need someone telling us over and over again. Not trying to be rude but if you can only think of him as the murderer and not the wrestler why even bother posting in a thread about him? To me its just seems like trolling just to state the obvious. I've just seen this one to many times with other Benoit threads. If that's not what your intentions were then I appoligize =)

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Riot (Oct 4, 2007)

In all fairness to the supposed troll, when you read the name *Ted Bundy*, do you think of the good looking, successful, charming, law student, or the man who rammed a rod up a college student's vagina? Same thing goes for Chris Beniot. Sure it'd be best if negativity was kept out of Benoit threads, but its pretty retarded seeing people look at a murderer in a positive light. Especially as to act like there were two Christ Benoits, the wrestler and the murderer.


----------



## Redruum (Aug 8, 2012)

Riot said:


> In all fairness to the supposed troll, when you read the name *Ted Bundy*, do you think of the good looking, successful, charming, law student, or the man who rammed a rod up a college students vagina? Same thing goes for Chris Beniot. Sure it'd be best if negativity was kept out of Benoit threads, but its pretty retarded seeing people look at a murderer in a positive light. Especially as to act like there where two Christ Benoits, the wrestler and the murderer.


Truth


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: Benoit in new WWE dvd War Games.*



Riot said:


> They need to blur Benoit out like the WWF logo and dub his name in with King saying "Puppies."


LOL.

I've called HBK overrated btw.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm not gonna judge someone who separates the two as long as they realize that what Benoit did over those three days nullify him as a good person or someone who should be glorified on DVDS. That is what WWE would be doing if they talked about him in a positive light on a DVD.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Just finished watching HBK/Orton from Survivor Series 2007, what a brilliant match. Love the story, pacing, mat work and psychology. ****1/2 stars

Anyone else love this match as much as I do?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ugh, why was the topic for the Benoit DVD appearance merged with this? Now we've got these stupid trolls all over it. Locking it would have been a better idea.

On topic: I love HBK vs Orton from Survivor Series. ★★★★¼ last I recall.

And to go back to an earlier question: Benoit's top 10 matches in WWE.

vs Jericho - Royal Rumble
vs HHH vs HBK - Wrestlemania XX & Backlash
vs Austin - Smackdown
w/ Jericho vs Austin/HHH - Raw
vs Rock - Fully Loaded
vs Angle - Royal Rumble
vs Orton - SummerSlam
vs Finlay - Judgment Day
w/ Angle vs Edge/Mysterio - No Mercy

Excluded TLC III because he has enough great stuff in solo or regular tag matches to justify their inclusion.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Riot said:


> In all fairness to the supposed troll, when you read the name *Ted Bundy*, do you think of the good looking, successful, charming, law student, or the man who rammed a rod up a college student's vagina? Same thing goes for Chris Beniot. Sure it'd be best if negativity was kept out of Benoit threads, but its pretty retarded seeing people look at a murderer in a positive light. Especially as to act like there were two Christ Benoits, the wrestler and the murderer.


You mean appreciate his wrestling ability? Sorry but if appreciating someones wrestling ability for being one of the best in a organization that I have watched and loved since I was very young makes me retarded then ok. What Benoit did was completely unacceptable and I do not look past what happened. I'm not trying to glorify him and excuse what he did. Sorry if that's the way your taking it. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

let me get back into thsi convo Benoit was a great wrestler but was one dimensional who only had only had a great matches with certain wrestlers and work only one style. Hbk was the total opposite, as I said before go good- great matches out of sub-par workers
top 10 hbk matches. that probably one of the the hardest question asked I could give probably top 25-30 Ill give it a shot
BB 97 taker
wm 26
wm 25
wm 19 Jericho
mg foley
cena london 07
wm 10 razor
wm 21 angle
wm 24 flair
raw 03 hhh


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HWRP said:


> What would you guys rate jericho/punk from ER. Seen a lot of different opinions on this match.
> 
> Had it at ****1/2 on last watch


Seen it twice, **** on both occasions. It's a pretty awesome match & a slower style grudge match you don't see in the 'E too often these days. Thought the storytelling with Punk being the hometown boy with his family at ringside was on point. Feel like it's gonna be one of those forgotten classics for years to come, considering the two other big matches from that show.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Chris Benoit vs. Bret Hart (Owen Hart Show 99) 
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho (Royal Rumble 01) 
Chris Benoit/Kurt Angle vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 02) 
Chris Benoit vs. Dean Malenko (Hog Wild 96) 
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 03) 
Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero (Vengeance 03) 
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 02) 
Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 04) 
Chris Benoit vs. Steve Austin (Smackdown 01)
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton (Summerslam 04) 

Honorable mention:
Chris Benoit vs. Finlay (Judgment Day 06)
TLC III
Chris Benoit vs. Triple H (Eddie Tribute Show 05)

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn Michaels best work was with The Rockers. 

Hands down.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i watched jerishow vs DX TLC and wrestlemania 17 tlc last night


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ thanks for the rec for the rocker /orient express rr 91 match good stuff, back to topc 
just watched :hbk2 vs hunter dec raw 2003
damn great match last match of the year, the raw in SA so hbk get huge pop. These two just havent had that classic with each other after several tries ( i have there ss 02 at ****), but they got it right here. Flair involvement is get, and then I remember marking out when hbk won the strap only to be trolled by bishoff. Overall great match ****1/2 one of the best in raw history no doubt


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

edit - posted again


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Random matches just watched:

*Guerrero vs Jericho - Fall Brawl '97*. Good match but nothing special. ***1/4
*Guerrero vs Brock - NWO '04*. I had this at 5* over the first couple times I watched but I'm knocking it down to ****1/2 because the leg work really led to nothing. It was a fun war to watch.
*Angle vs Edge - Backlash '02*. I'm not a huge Edge fan so I didn't expect much but this match delivered and then some. Incredible encounter. Believable false finishes, awesome counters, what more could you want? ****1/2! Can't wait to watch the rematch @ Judgement Day.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit is not my #1 pick for greatest ring worker ever (behind Hart, Misawa, and Steamboat), but I don't think there was ever a wrestler that mastered all three major categories of wrestling (brawling, "technical", high-flying) like he did. I do not understand how one of the most adept workers of all-time could ever be called one-dimensional. I don't think there was ever a wrestler that he had poor chemistry with.

Top Ten WWE Benoit Matches (non-tag,battle royal, etc.):

WM XX Triple Threat *******
vs. Angle RR 2003 *******
Backlash 2004 Triple Threat *****3/4*
vs. Jericho RR 2001 *****3/4*
vs. Austin 5/31/01 *****3/4*
vs. Finlay Judgment Day 2006 *****1/2*
vs. Angle Unforgiven 2002 *****1/2 (GOAT Heel/Heel match)*
vs. Orton Summerslam 2004 *****1/4 (Needs rewatch, but might actually go up)*
vs. Lesnar 12/4/03 *****1/4*
vs. Michaels 5/3/04 *****1/4*

Shit, I can go all day with this. Benoit was a king.

Other match ratings for matches previously mentioned:

Punk vs. Jericho ER 2012 *****1/2 (SO MUCH FUN)*
Orton vs. Michaels Survivor Series 2007 *****1/4*
Guerrero vs. Jericho Fall Brawl 1997 *****1/2*
Guerrero vs. Brock NWO 2004 *****3/4*
Angle vs. Edge Backlash 2002 *****1/4 (forgotten classic)*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

im sorry if I wasnt clear about my post earlier, I meant that Benoit towards the end of his career and life only had good matches with certain wrestlers (finaly,regal).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

More PPVS need matches like the fatal four way tag @ No Way Out. Such a fun spotfest kind of tag with a fast pace that gets me every time, while at the same time allowing EIGHT hungry guys to get some quality PPV time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You're making me wanna watch this show more and more, Evan. Might have to pop her in this weekend... Wonder what you'll think of the main event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What the fuck is this shit? Random ass Sin Cara vs Hunico match? Terrible.

I LOVED the WWE Championship match and was very MEH on the main event when I first saw the show, but I haven't seen both since and I'm very curious as to how they hold up. Hopefully better than this HORRENDOUS Sin Cara match, I mean WHY?

UGH. THIS VIDEO PACKAGE IS ALL ABOUT AJ.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> im sorry if I wasnt clear about my post earlier, I meant that Benoit towards the end of his career and life only had good matches with certain wrestlers (finaly,regal).


Not at all. He had good matches in 06/07 with Finlay, Regal, Orton, Henry, MVP, Edge, Chavo, Booker T, JBL, Greg Helms, etc. The Edge match was three weeks before Benoit died, a really great match, and pretty much all Benoit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know you're not a fan of CHRISTIAN HAITCH BEE KAY Yeah, but you HAVE to enjoy the Wrestlemania XXIII match between Shawn and Cena, am I right? Thought they worked really well together in that one to create a really organic pace. Michaels was almost a pseudo heel in that match I suppose, which is probably why his performance in that match exceeds most of his work from the 2000s.

EDIT: Also, just heard that Del Rio vs Swagger from tonight was AWESOME. Anybody in here that can tell me just how good it was and if I should watch it for SWAGS?

EDIT PT 2: How about the Henry/Show vs Sheamus/Orton match? Damn, is this Smackdown worth watching this week?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I enjoyed the Swagger/Del Rio match on Smackdown. Reminded me of a match you would see on Smackdown in 2002-2003. Better than their Mania match and paced very well. Nice counters and a hot finishing sequence. I would go ****1/2* on the stars, but if we adjust that to the KOK Scale, it would probably equate to a **3/4 due to Del Rio's involvement and presence.

Haven't seen the tag match, but it looks like it gets plenty of time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I really should check it out for SWAGGER. If it's better than their Mania match (which I liked) then I'm going to be a fan.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Not at all. He had good matches in 06/07 with Finlay, Regal, Orton, Henry, MVP, Edge, Chavo, Booker T, JBL, Greg Helms, etc. The Edge match was three weeks before Benoit died, a really great match, and pretty much all Benoit.


Exactly, and there was never a moment in his career where he had to be carried through a match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> I know you're not a fan of CHRISTIAN HAITCH BEE KAY Yeah, but you HAVE to enjoy the Wrestlemania XXIII match between Shawn and Cena, am I right? Thought they worked really well together in that one to create a really organic pace. Michaels was almost a pseudo heel in that match I suppose, which is probably why his performance in that match exceeds most of his work from the 2000s.


I listed it as one of Michaels top 10 WWE matches a few pages back. I did it with hesitation because I'm not sure if it holds up, but I'd be surprised if it didn't. There aren't a ton of 2000s Michaels matches I really enjoy any more but that's always been one of them (actually I think I didn't like it originally. I forget.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> More PPVS need matches like the fatal four way tag @ No Way Out. Such a fun spotfest kind of tag with a fast pace that gets me every time, while at the same time allowing EIGHT hungry guys to get some quality PPV time.


Meh. It's nothing special. Pretty standard average affair. Kidd & Gabriel could have done SO much more in it. Usos are terrible to boot.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

The Swagger/Del Rio match at Wrestlemania was okay, but keep in mind that it was only 10 minutes long. I think the time limit just made it a throwaway match. That's especially disappointing since I decided to sit through the garbage that was their feud for the numerous weeks leading up to the PPV.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

After watching his work, i feel Eddie was the greatest all round performer, he could play a chicken shit heel or an ambitious small guy, He also had this intensive side that none other had. He's time came too earlier, I piss and moan everyday that he never had the chance to work with Taker, nor Benoit had the chance. I even heard Eddie/Taker produced ****+ house matches.


----------



## xXSegemoXx (Apr 20, 2013)

Eddie vs Taker could be awesome... or even Eddie vs HBK... not sure if that happened but if it was a WM match with Michaels as the heel it would be amazing.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

MXC is hilarious.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of HBK, am I the only one who thought his No DQ vs Kane in 2010 was excellent?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

ATF said:


> Speaking of HBK, am I the only one who thought his No DQ vs Kane in 2010 was excellent?


I'm a huge HBK mark too (see my name) but I never really loved either Kane/HBK matches. I remember being disappointed with Shawn's Unforgiven return, and the match on the go-home show to WrestleMania 26 I didn't think much of other than a decent TV match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Speaking of HBK, am I the only one who thought his No DQ vs Kane in 2010 was excellent?


The one right before Wrestlemania? Nah, KingOfKings loves it too. I don't really have much of an opinion on it, it wasn't long enough to really have much going for it. Undertaker interference was cool but I didn't even know the match was No DQ at that point so it really confused me. Plus as Cody said a few pages back it just made Kane look like a chump.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

FINALS ARE OVER!!!!!!! Just wrote my last exam an hour ago! Fuck yes! Now it's time to avoid sunlight and watch wrestling and talk about it for an entire week!

So on topic:I can't even recall Kane and HBK having a match in 2010 lol. Gotta check it out. 

Right now I'm working on a 2006 PPV pack. Trying to watch some London/Kendricks stuff.

Oh but some ratings thus far

Triple H vs Big Show NYR ***1/2
Orton vs Mysterio NWO ***3/4
Mark Henry vs Kurt Angle RR- meh
Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker NWO ***3/4

I'm not as high on Taker/Angle as most. I would rather watch Orton/Mysterio from the same event.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I LOVE Lohndon/Kendricks vs. MNM from JD 2006. One of my favorite tag matches of all time and at ****1/4.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

two more weeks not including finals for me smh yea not that big on the nwo taker/angle match but I have it at a ****, just watched the hbk/kane match for 2010, ok tv match nothing special and really short


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

GOATAntics said:


> I LOVE Lohndon/Kendricks vs. MNM from JD 2006. One of my favorite tag matches of all time and at ****1/4.


That's the one I'm about to go watch now.

I think I will bump Taker/Angle up to ****, it did have its moments. But, damn, it's one of those rare instances where I rather watch a match I consider ***3/4 over a match that I have at ****


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Mysterio/JBL, No Mercy 2005 or Judgement Day 2006. Which one do you prefer?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Judgement Day.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Who had the better one year title reign Punk or Cena?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My final Best Of PG Era matchlist:

HHH vs Cena NOC, Raw Nov. 09
HBK vs Jericho TGAB, UF, NM
Cena vs Batista SSlam, WM 26, ER
Taker vs Edge SSlam
Cena vs Jericho SS, Arm.
Cena vs HBK Raw Jan. 09
SD Chamber 09, 10, 11
Swagger vs Christian ECW Feb. 09, BL
Raw Chamber 09, 11, 12
Taker vs HBK WM 25, 26
Cena vs Edge BL 09
Rey vs Jericho JD, ER, Bash, SD July 09
Rey vs Ziggler SSlam, SD Feb. 10
DX vs Legacy SSlam, BP
Jeff vs Punk SSlam, SD Cage
Orton vs Cena BP
Royal Rumble 10
SD MITB 10, 11
Raw MITB 10
Team WWE vs Nexus
Miz vs Bryan NOC
Miz vs Bryan vs Morrison
Orton vs Sheamus HIAC
Cena vs Barrett HIAC
Bryan vs Ziggler BR, Raw & SD Nov. 10, Raw Nov. 12, SMS April 13
Morrison vs Sheamus TLC
Kane vs Edge vs Rey vs ADR
Miz vs Morrison Raw Jan. 11
Edge vs Kane SD Jan. 11
Rey vs Cody WM 27, ER
Taker vs HHH WM 27, 28
Orton vs Punk ER
Christian vs ADR ER
Orton vs Christian SD May 11, OTL, MITB, SSlam
Kidd vs Barreta Sup. May 11, NXT Nov. 11
Miz & Swagger vs Rey & Riley Raw June 11
Usos & Barreta vs Kidd, Gabriel & Slater
Cena vs Punk MITB, SSlam, Raw Aug. 11, NOC, Raw Feb. 13
Cena vs Rey Raw July 11
Punk vs ADR SS
Punk vs ADR vs Miz
Punk vs Bryan Raw Jan. 12, SD Feb. 12, OTL, MITB
Punk vs Jericho WM 28, ER
Bryan vs Sheamus ER
Cena vs Lesnar ER
Sheamus vs Show HIAC
Rybell No vs Shield TLC
Taker vs Punk WM 29
Ohno vs Regal NXT 13

Missing a lot of classics but this is my list anyways :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Who had the better one year title reign Punk or Cena?


Both men had quality matches on PPV but I prefer Punk's reign on a week to week basis with his promo work and TV matches included.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great list, ATF. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*No Way Out 2012*

WHC – Sheamus© vs Dolph Ziggler : ******

Tuxedo Match – Santino Marella vs Ricardo Rodriguez :* FUCK*

IC – Christian© vs Cody Rhodes : **** ¾*

Tyson Kidd/Justin Gabriel vs Primo/Epico vs Primetime Players vs The Usos : *** ¾*

DC – Layla© vs Beth Phoenix : ** 1/2*

Sin Cara vs Hunico : *DUD*

WWE Championship – CM Punk© vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane : **** ¾*

Ryback vs Dan Delaney/Rob Grimes : *DUD*

Steel Cage – John Cena vs The Big Show : *** ½*


What a way to open the show with Sheamus and DOLPH. The callback at the beginning of the match to Wrestlemania set the stage for a really well paced match with a interesting story being told about how everytime Sheamus is about to gain an advantage, DOLPH grounds him using his amateur experience. This match has as many sleeper holds as RR 03 Steiner-HHH has belly to belly suplexes, but at the same time it's integral to the story and I like all of the little reversals they do to integrate it into the match. Fantastic bout, anti climatic finish but that's okay sometimes, glad that this wasn't Sheamus vs Del Rio as that would have been another disaster. 

UGH. That tuxedo match is an example of when I should say NO to a match and just deduct points, but since I like to watch every show and every match just because, the FUCK rating is a marvelous way for me to capture my thoughts of regret after watching something so atrocious like this tuxedo match. I know it's a comedy match but, FUCK.

Here we have Christian vs Cody Rhodes cranking the pace up from Over the Limit in a fantastically underhyped/underrated match-up. Matches like these really make you appreciate the little gestures that Christian performs during his matches to sell the story, such as when Cody is working on the shoulder of Christian all match and Christian hits the spear to end it, Christian uses the other shoulder to not destroy a whole match's worth of selling. There were a few fantastic near falls as well in here as I recommend any fan of either Christian or Cody Rhodes to check this excellent match out immediately, as Cody certainly isn't a slouch in it either.

I really enjoyed the fatal four way tag as a way to get 8 hungry guys some PPV time (NO ****), and they delivered a fun little match with some awesome spots that really caught me off guard sometimes. Kidd and Gabriel stole the show despite the limited amount of time they were in there, Primo & Epico did a great job with some spots, The Primetime players set the base as the grounded team of the match, while the Uso's are really fucking annoying and shout "UUUUUUUUU!" during ever single move they perform, terrible. Anyways, despite the incompetence of the Uso's, this was really fun and PPV's should have more matches like this one.

Am I the only one in here who thinks Layla isn't that bad of a worker at times? I mean in the sense that every match she has doesn't want to make you tear her fucking eyeballs out? Anyways this match was actually not BAD per se, but it was certainly better than most Divas PPV matches as Layla really fucked around with Beth's strength and it actually entertained me to some degree. Would have have it 2 stars but the finish was fucked up and the beginning was kinda MEH.

Sin Cara vs Hunico : Flips and shit, I wonder why this was on PPV, it's over, it sucked.

Ah yes, the WWE Championship triple threat. Going into the match I was afraid that we would get a little too much AJ here as everything in the pre-match interviews and video packages heavily focused on her, but I ended up pleasantly surprised at the end of the match when she was really only used for about 5 seconds of the entire match. I like how Kane was thrown in here to be the big guy for Punk and Bryan to chop down, and they do it with such intensity that you really think Kane's taking a beating out there. Once we eliminate Kane for the time being we're down to Punk-Bryan and my god do they know how to work a compelling segment, everything they touch is pure gold. These three really work off of each other in this one to create sequences, unlike many triple threats wherein it ends up being a revolving door of one on one matches, and I appreciate that. The third recommended match on the show, THE EPIC REIGN CONTINUES.

Ryback squash. Nothing to say here other than that the pre-match promo by the jobbers is actually pretty hilarious and is it just me, or has Ryback gained 20 pounds of muscle mass over the last year :lol?

The Steel Cage main event was good, nothing more and nothing less. At first I thought this was going to be a fantastic damn near classic with Cena getting destroyed by The Big Show and Cena making his subsequent comeback (and to an extent, that is indeed what they do), but there's more of an even 1 on 1 dynamic that doesn't make sense here. I mean, why does Big Show go for the big elbow off the top rope? It's awesome and it doesn't take anything away from the match at all, but why does he do that when he is in control of the match in the first place? This match was getting really damn good until Brodus Clay and the rest of the 'awful performers' gang shows up and we have a jobber party for Big Show. The finish is pretty good, but at times it gets completely fucking overbooked which is something that Show vs Cena should NEVER BE. Excellent first half, MEH second half gives it a GOOD rating. When it comes to their PPV encounters I'd have it over Mania XX (maybe) & Extreme Rules 2009, but miles below the awesomeness that is Judgement Day 2009. Good way to end the show though, even though Punk SHOULD HAVE CLOSED, but I'm not complaining.

Overall this show was a pretty big surprise. You have three matches worth going out of your way to see in the two world title matches & Cody vs Christian, all capped off by a pretty good John Cena vs Big Show Steel Cage main event with a really feel good ending that practically encapsulates the PG Era (even though Brodus Clay can fuck off). There's some GOOD filler material on here (fatal four way tag) coupled with some AWFUL filler material on here (Ryback Squash, Shit Cara), and also one of the most atrocious matches I've ever seen in the tuxedo match. WATCH for the great matches, stay for the Main event and the TRIPLE H PROMO mid PPV. I would most certainly watch this one again, really underrated show as most are quick to dismiss it. I'd need to rewatch some shows, but I'm confident that this would be higher on the CAL SCALE than quite a few PPVs (already know off the top of my head that it's higher than EC 13 & RR 12 combined), just needs to cut out the bad material.

*CAL SCALE : 14.5*

​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> FINALS ARE OVER!!!!!!! Just wrote my last exam an hour ago! Fuck yes! Now it's time to avoid sunlight and watch wrestling and talk about it for an entire week!
> 
> So on topic:I can't even recall Kane and HBK having a match in 2010 lol. Gotta check it out.
> 
> ...


HBK/Kane is like 4 or 5 minutes so there's really not much to see, tbh. Coulda swore you threw out these ratings the other day and gave Angle/Henry ** 3/4? haha. May be wrong, who knows. Either way it's a pretty crappy match on a severely crappy show.

----------------------

Great review on NWO '12, Evan. Btw, you're not the only one that doesn't mind Layla. She's one of the very few divas out there I actually don't mind seeing wrestle, had some good stuff against Beth & Michelle in the past. Fuck Kaitlyn and all these other shitty bitches.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Spoiler: Armstrong/Blanchard 87



Brad Armstrong vs Tully Blanchard w/ J.J Dillon for the World Television Title & $10'000. 11th of April 1987 WCW Pro Wrestling.

I watched this yesterday, and with a limited concentration at the time, I felt it needed a rewatch. In structure, I believe the first bit before the commercial was solid, but, it felt disjointed at the same time. The execution in the offence from Armstrong wasn't good. He struggled to play off Tully's style. Tully couldn't get it going either, though. I was ready to dig into Brad, until he partnered with his father, Bullet Bob, the 50 year old pacing and punching like hes 15, in the recent months leading up to the Crockett 87 Cup. I enjoyed his match with Jimmy Garvin at Starrcade 86, but he hasn't done too much outside of it. Random encounters with the Horsemen.

As an FYI, won't be doing a Crockett Cup review. Too much JIP matches. Would love to get my hands on a full Flair/Windham at the event, if anyone has a link or for it. Next up is the GAB87, 3 months of weeklies to run through. Ah, fun. Goes in with 40GB of Mid-South and 15GB of Memphis. Spreading myself thin.

Since I summarised a bit of Armstrong's backstory going into the match, I'll do the same with Blanchard. Him & Dillon have had some little feud with Ole Anderson, but Blanchard was also tagging with Luger heading into the Cup. Basically, he's doing a bit of everything. Defending singles champion, in a Horsemen feud and in a tag team at the same time. Eventually he'll settle back into a groove, and he definately isn't in it at the moment. 

To start it up, Armstrong quickly takes the match to Blanchard with a series of takedowns. They all look weird, but it flows well. The young upstart babyface trying to gain some momentum, taking the TV title reign away from Blanchard and deal a blow to the Horsemen. The match begins to progress and settle, and it quickly becomes a battle of roll-ups, cruifix & sliding pinholds, Blanchard looks like he is starting to suspect Armstrong is a viable challenger, wanting to put it to bed soon. Armstrong's offence isn't helping him too much, sleeper out of nowhere, and the match has turned tide after 5 minutes into a series of punches and a few knees. I suppose it's pretty generic thus far. Commerical break anyway.

One credible point to give Armstrong is, his dropkicks look like they are actual dropkicks, instead of the dipping toe flying kick. Another bit to add, is he moves and uses his moves like I did on the Smackdown vs RAW 2008 game.

Back into the action, Armstrong hitting several moves and punches into Blanchard, but Tully gets that opportunity back into the match. Does the same, including a good look 'catapult' into the ropes. Back 'n' forth, Armstrong back in, and begins to contol for the next 4-5 minutes. I have to say, it feels rather pointless. Every move they've done. A decent TV battle, with no substance.
In comes Luger after the referee gets knocked out, Blanchard falling into him after a dropkick by Armstrong. Luger hits an elbow to the back of Armstrong's head, referee crawls back in for a 3 count.

Not sure how I judge this match. It's a good TV match-up, both men make themselves look good, get their offence in, Tully makes Brad look stronger, and by that, it has served the purpose of having this contest. But it has it's flaws. I don't think either men work together very well. It's been a slight grievance for Tully for a while. He is much better in everything with an opponent who can play off him. Armstrong isn't that mold. He is the definition of generic, has no personality, he has grass coming out of his pores. ***. I was hoping it would age well, but it hasn't.



@ATF, great list, Personally I'd struggle to make a top 5 for this era. Not a slate on it, just my absolute lack of interest in rewatching the product. To chip in, will try name my favourite match of the time period. One space, but has taken 5 minutes to think.  Most likely TLC 6 man from December 12. (Favourite, not 'best')


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

So what's your rating for the Triple H promo, KOK?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My rating for that promo would be around ***** 1/4*. It's a classic, but Trips doesn't ramble on about random nonsense enough. He DOES however refer to THIS BUSINESS, which makes it worthwhile. Crazy to think how the Triple H vs Brock Lesnar feud started in late April 2012 and won't end until MAY 2013 :lol.

COREY. I'M WATCHING THE FOLEY DVD THAT I JUST PICKED UP. FUCK. THAT. FUCKING. SOCK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. Fuck the sock! It is kinda weird they put it in so many of the packages though, I'd be kind of embarrassed to buy that. 

I'll probably just watch that doc when it's thrown on Netflix. I buy DVDs for the match listing & the doc's are a bonus for me. Already have too much of Foley's matches on dvd to spend more money on it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was with my girlfriend when I bought it and she just looked at me like "Ummmm.... What is that? WHY is there a DVD in a sock?" . 

I own a fucking TON of WWE DVDs, yet there's FOURTEEN matches on this that I don't own already, a rarity when it comes to me and COMPS lately (for reference, the IYH set released soon has only three matches that I don't own).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Man, I have wrestling ADD or something, I can't sit through a match without fast forwarding a certain part. Anyone have this issue?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Must not like it that much :troll


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No I'm the opposite, I even sit through the entrances. Not sure why. Of course if it's Trips I go and get a bottle of a water and act out his entrance as he does it. :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Many bottles of water were wasted when I was a child, that's for sure.

Another staple of mine would be trying to perform wrestling moves at the most random times on my friends. Everybody could be standing up engaged in a meaningful conversation, here's Evan trying to "RKO OUT OF NOWHERE". I swear to god I got so many people PISSED at me, but it was 04-06 and Randy Orton and the RKO OUT OF NOWHERE was fucking HUGE.

Anybody who says Orton was overpushed is full of shit. He was HUGE as the legend killer.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I sometimes fast forward through some things, but like ABH, I'm a nut for entrances. I even do Trip's pose when I score on FIFA.

Edit: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to KingofKings again."


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Many bottles of water were wasted when I was a child, that's for sure.
> 
> Another staple of mine would be trying to perform wrestling moves at the most random times on my friends. Everybody could be standing up engaged in a meaningful conversation, here's Evan trying to "RKO OUT OF NOWHERE". I swear to god I got so many people PISSED at me, but it was 04-06 and Randy Orton and the RKO OUT OF NOWHERE was fucking HUGE.
> 
> Anybody who says Orton was overpushed is full of shit. He was HUGE as the legend killer.


I never could do the water spit properly. Only once in a while would I pull out wrestling moves on my friends. They didn't like it when I did, usually because no one wants their head between another dudes legs as he's trying to give them the Pedigree. Especially if they didn't know what the fuck the Pedigree was. Though I did get Chokeslammed really hard once as a kid, right on the concrete. Hurt bad.



iwatchwrestling said:


> I sometimes fast forward through some things, but like ABH, I'm a nut for entrances. I even do Trip's pose when I score on FIFA.



Impressive. :clap


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Many bottles of water were wasted when I was a child, that's for sure.
> 
> Another staple of mine would be trying to perform wrestling moves at the most random times on my friends. Everybody could be standing up engaged in a meaningful conversation, here's Evan trying to "RKO OUT OF NOWHERE". I swear to god I got so many people PISSED at me, but it was 04-06 and Randy Orton and the RKO OUT OF NOWHERE was fucking HUGE.
> 
> Anybody who says Orton was overpushed is full of shit. He was HUGE as the legend killer.


:lmao

Fucking hilarious post!

Still to this day I 'fake' big boot people all the time (even my cat) and just smack the shit out of my leg for the sound effect. I also enjoy putting my dad in hammerlocks, not sure where that stemmed from...

RKO OUTTA NOWHERE! BING IT!

Oh and I no joke vertical suplex my girlfriend's little sister (she's 6) all the time and SHE LOVES IT.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The only wrestler, i don't fast forward for is THE PHENOM, THE DEADMAN, THE UNDERTAKER. This man's punches puts butts firmly in seats.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Anybody who says Orton was overpushed is full of shit. He was HUGE as the legend killer.


Well said. Orton haters (as in full-on haters, not those who simply don't like him right now) must have a negative IQ because the stuff they'll say to justify their hatred for him is retarded.

The only wrestling I've done is with my little brother. Have had plenty of fun at times and I pretty much do everything on my own.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I remember wrestling with my dad as a kid and trying to slap the Figure Four on him. Apparently it hurts.

And, true that about Orton. The Legend Killer gimmick was straight HUGE.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I remember wrestling with my dad as a kid and trying to slap the Figure Four on him. Apparently it hurts.
> 
> And, true that about Orton. The Legend Killer gimmick was straight HUGE.


Oh, submissions were hella fun to put on friends. The Sharpshooter (or Scorpion Death Lock I always called it as a kid, since I watched WCW and loved Sting) was my go-to move. I never used to be able to get the Figure Four right, until I finally realized how to do it and apparently it does hurt. Never had it put on me though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Sharpshooter and figure four were too hard to execute for me. Double Leg Boston Crab FTW, easy as pie. :lmao.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Used to wrestle my brothers, dad, and friends when I was younger. Brothers and friends destroyed my parent's bed about one hundred times over. But it was fine. We were doing finishers like nobody's business and we would have tournaments occasionally. We never pre-determined anything... well not as a group. I determined in my head who I would let win against me or not. To put it simply, Goldberg's win-loss record is nothing compared to mine.  And for the record, those few losses I did have came to my older brother and dad, the only two people I couldn't beat by force. 

Edit: I could never do the figure four properly and did some modified version that actually hurt (the person I was doing it on). Been about a decade though and I can't remember how to do it at all.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Figure 4 HURTS LIKE FUCK! So much pressure put on your knees & shins. I remember making my cousin scream every time I'd slap it on. Oh I how I miss my childhood...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HBK/JBL/Orton/Jericho, Raw December 08: ***1/2. Storytelling is pure GOLD here, especially in the HBK/JBL portions. Watch it, it's truly awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I used to let my older brother pretty much beat the shit out of me, as it was the only way to get him at least semi interested in wrestling. Countless bumps were taken at my expense, some more brutal than the average kid/teenager should take.

Me and a few friends would have pre determined matches in a trampoline from time to time, and I ALWAYS tried to take as many bumps as possible. My parents weren't pleased to say the least.

I always thought the REVERSAL of the figure four hurt more than the actual figure four itself.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Anything like the sharp shooter or boston crab I was tapping out in seconds. I don't know if it's because I didn't give a fuck about my legs or something, but it would take a while in that before I tapped. Same thing with the ankle lock.

Edit: I did take more bumps than Goldberg if that helps.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Well, I took more bumps than Hogan.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's how I would sneak my way into getting wins though ; I would take a beating after the match :lol.

I remember my comeback sequence as a babyface like it was yesterday ; bionic elbows (LOVED Dusty Rhodes after buying his DVD), side effect, leg drop Hogan style with a crotch chop in the middle of it, RKO.

My workrate was better than 2013 Dwayne Johnson.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> That's how I would sneak my way into getting wins though ; I would take a beating after the match :lol.


Taking beatdowns? Bitch, please. Not only would I win, but I'd beat them down after the match and throw them off the bed (or out of the room if we had the rare match on the floor).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Oh, submissions were hella fun to put on friends. The Sharpshooter (or Scorpion Death Lock I always called it as a kid, since I watched WCW and loved Sting) was my go-to move. I never used to be able to get the Figure Four right, until I finally realized how to do it and apparently it does hurt. Never had it put on me though.


Ive put the Sharpshooter on my mate, and yeah apparantly it does indeed hurt


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Well said. Orton haters (as in full-on haters, not those who simply don't like him right now) must have a negative IQ because the stuff they'll say to justify their hatred for him is retarded.
> 
> The only wrestling I've done is with my little brother. Have had plenty of fun at times and I pretty much do everything on my own.


I'm one of those in the don't like him now group, but the guy was so good in 2004-2005.

I was just watching these promos when Orton was king:

vs Triple H:






vs Undertaker:
http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relev...+vs+undertaker+wrestlemania+21/1#video=xki376

vs Mick Foley:

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/randy+orton+vs+mick+foley+promo/1#video=xc4h5w

GET A LOOK AT GREATNESS.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Anybody done the superkick? Not Dolph's but HBK's, with the straight leg. Nearly pulled something every time I tried it. 

Man, looking back I did some stupid shit. Nice to hear I'm not the only one, though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Orton/HHH Unforgiven promo is awesome. One of my personal favorites of all time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ i would almost fall so many times doing it, I would slap my leg so hard to get that sound too lol. I just remember me and my friends over selling all the time, I use to always elbow drop my pillows and bed


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I remember watching Unforgiven 2004 live with my friends and as soon as interference from Evolution started happening, all of my friends left because they knew HHH was winning and they were sick of him winning. Same thing with NYR 2005 in the epic chamber match ; Everyone was raging while I acted as if the Patriots just won the superbowl :lol.

Pretty sure out of all of my friends, I was the only person who didn't HATE Triple H, let alone marked out like crazy for him. GAME was my guy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> I remember watching Unforgiven 2004 live with my friends and as soon as interference from Evolution started happening, all of my friends left because they knew HHH was winning and they were sick of him winning. Same thing with NYR 2005 in the epic chamber match ; Everyone was raging while I acted as if the Patriots just won the superbowl :lol.
> 
> Pretty sure out of all of my friends, I was the only person who didn't HATE Triple H, let alone marked out like crazy for him. GAME was my guy.


If Trips was any good at that time, I'm sure more of your friends would've joined you on the "non-hate" side. :HHH2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Me and my friends started a wrestling fed.....in school! Lol. 

Every morning before class, recess and lunch time we'd wrassle. On nothing but cold, hard concrete lol. Didn't do stupid shit like suplexes and pile drivers of course. We'd just hit each other chops, tried to shove the next guy on the ground and lock in a submission hold for the LEGIT win. 

Man, good times. This was when I was around 11 when I got back into wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, wrestling as school was fun, hurt like hell a few times lol as it was more like fucking UFC :lol

I even bought in my replica WWF belt a few times too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't care what anyone say but Edge/Foley/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah gets **** from me. Such an awesome, emotional match. Loved every minute of it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Foley documentary is FANTASTIC.

It must mean alot for Randy Orton when Foley comes out and says that their Backlash 2004 match is their greatest match ever considering the quality of the matches that Foley has been in during his career. I don't agree with Mick with that statement at all (I DO believe it's Orton's greatest singles match for sure), but he knows far more about the business then I do so ... Yeah.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can't fucking wait to watch the whole Foley DVD, esp the doc. Gonna wait 'till I buy the DVD rather than watch it online or anything tbh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love how the match selection consists of either unreleased matches or a previously released match with an alternate commentary track on it, the lone exception being the HIAC match with THE GAME. We need more of that on WWE DVDs and I seriously hope that the Triple H DVD gets the exact same treatment that this one did.

I'm willing to bet that GAME'S DVD is going to be full of fucking awful rehashes though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't care what anyone say but Edge/Foley/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah gets **** from me. Such an awesome, emotional match. Loved every minute of it.


****1/2 for that match. God I love it. Funk doing the old "MY EYE!!!" spot reminiscent of Funk/Lawler from Memphis in the 80's makes me smile like a retard. I'd say this match and the Foley WM match are the two best Edge gimmick bouts ever.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The vs Hardy match is better, I think. I don't actually know what everyone's opinion is on it but I think it's really really really good, especially considering their feud.

I can't comment on the ONS match. I just... :lol


----------



## Merc_With_A_Mouth (Sep 16, 2009)

Anybody watch Swagger/ADR from Smackdown last night? Heard it was tremendously better than their Wrestlemania match.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Much Foley just said on twitter that WWE should put Braden Walker in the HOF next year. I always knew I loved Mick.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Merc_With_A_Mouth said:


> Anybody watch Swagger/ADR from Smackdown last night? Heard it was tremendously better than their Wrestlemania match.


I've heard the same thing which is pretty great to hear since I didn't think highly of their WrestleMania 29 match at all. I'm gonna give that match a watch and review it later.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Truly enjoyed the Foley doc. Can't say it enough. I forget that Triple H has a pretty cool history with Mick. They had a nice little feud in 1997, then that big feud that got Trips over as THE HEEL. 

Mick always seemed to be able to get guys over. The Mind Games match let HBK show another side of himself. He got Triple H over in 2000. He gave Orton a chance to show he could hang, then had that great match with Edge at WM 22. 



Spoiler: In case you haven't seen the doc



Interesting to know that we almost didn't get the Triple H feud in 2000, as Mick was already being told to quit.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> The vs Hardy match is better, I think. I don't actually know what everyone's opinion is on it but I think it's really really really good, especially considering their feud.
> 
> I can't comment on the ONS match. I just... :lol


Edge/Hardy is Edge's best gimmick match ever. I have it at *****3/4*

Posted a review on it not to long ago: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/15737826-post3705.html


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> The Foley documentary is FANTASTIC.
> 
> It must mean alot for Randy Orton when Foley comes out and says that their Backlash 2004 match is their greatest match ever considering the quality of the matches that Foley has been in during his career. I don't agree with Mick with that statement at all (I DO believe it's Orton's greatest singles match for sure), but he knows far more about the business then I do so ... Yeah.


Did he say that Orton match is his greatest ever? Damn, I respect him and like him even more now!

And I really need to download that doc, should be up on XWT.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

And after pages of hearing about Foley's documentary I want to check it out now. Anywhere I can watch it online? Easier than downloading.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> And after pages of hearing about Foley's documentary I want to check it out now. Anywhere I can watch it online? Easier than downloading.


Just PM'd a link.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> And after pages of hearing about Foley's documentary I want to check it out now. Anywhere I can watch it online? Easier than downloading.


PM.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Watched the Foley doc the other day. Definitely one of my favorites. Made me gain some appreciate for the Taker feud, and it's funny. You think about all the guys who Foley has put over... Triple H, Edge, Orton, to a lesser extent Rock (due to the fact Rock was already very popular and a main event guy even before Foley), and you wonder, who put over Foley? Well, Taker was that guy.

But yeah, amazing doc. Check it out asap. I may even buy the DVD, not just for the doc and matches, but to show my support for it.

Also, going to Smackdown June 4th. Been to a couple of Raws (1/3/2005 and 6/18/2012), GAB 2007, and Survivor Series 2011, but never been to a Smackdown. Hopefully WWE put some effort into Smackdown on that night, as well as any other shows they're taping. Going with my older brother, and 3-year old (who will be 4 by the time of the event) nephew. The little guy's a big Randy Orton and Sheamus fan, so hopefully he enjoys it. Never thought I'd get to see two WWE shows in a year... actually I've been to quite a few the last 2. 4 with Smackdown included, and 6 in total.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks for the PM's guys, reps given. Watching it now. (Y)


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Edge/Hardy is Edge's best gimmick match ever. I have it at *****3/4*
> 
> Posted a review on it not to long ago: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/15737826-post3705.html


Great play by play. It's been a long time since I watched that match but I'd reckon I'd have it at the same, if higher. 

Also feel free to pass on this Foley doc link :hmm:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

^ I've PM'ed you the link.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I really need to see this Orton/Foley match. I missed alot of ppv matches in this time period cause I didn't have the money or internet. Foley is one of my favorites and never really hated Orton.. just think he's screwed up a few times which have halted his momentum.. like I haven't liked or disliked him since I'd say the Christian feud. Good matches tho. He knows how to work the style, slow paced as it is.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Lazyking said:


> I really need to see this Orton/Foley match. I missed alot of ppv matches in this time period cause I didn't have the money or internet. Foley is one of my favorites and never really hated Orton.. just think he's screwed up a few times which have halted his momentum.. like I haven't liked or disliked him since I'd say the Christian feud. Good matches tho. He knows how to work the style, slow paced as it is.


Foley vs Orton match:

part 1: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/randy+orton+vs+mick+foley+full+match/1#video=xx4hue

part 2: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/randy+orton+vs+mick+foley+full+match/1#video=xpaujc


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> Edge/Hardy is Edge's best gimmick match ever. I have it at ****3/4


What show is this from?

Yesterday I went through an Edge/Angle trilogy and today I did the Edge/Taker trilogy. Some stars:

WM 24: ****1/4+
Extreme Rules TLC match: **** and that might be pushing it tbh
Summerslam Hell in a Cell match: ****3/4+

Wrestlemania was really good with all of Edge's counters to UT's signature spots and the finish while predictable was done really well. TLC was meh, the spots were super predictable and the interference made Edge look like he had no business even being in the match. HiaC was f'n incredible, even the promo for the match was. Loved the ending of the match with Taker using the camera, concerto, and tombstone after already destroying him with the chokeslam through two tables. The chokeslam through the ring after the match while fine for the story was awful.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Unforgiven 2005

Match:

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/edge+vs+matt+hardy+steel+cage/1#video=xy3r91


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger- Smackdown 4/19/13​*
Del Rio is going into this match with a bad left knee thanks to Swagger who attacked him on RAW. Swagger also has a bad left-arm going into this match by the hands of Del Rio so I'm expecting a lot of legwork and armwork being done in this match. Both Swagger and Del Rio lock-up. Swagger tries to go for Del Rio's injured leg but Del Rio fights Swagger off, hitting Swagger on his bad left arm. Del Rio focuses on his injured leg and both Swagger and Del Rio lock-up again with Del Rio getting the upper-hand. Swagger counters behind Del Rio but Del Rio is able to grab Swagger's bad left arm to try and go for a cross-armbreaker but Swagger quickly breaks the hold by holding onto the ropes. Del Rio taunts Swagger by tapping his left arm which is nice story-telling there. Swagger and Del Rio goes for another lock-up and this time, Swagger gets in control by kneeing Del Rio in the stomach and going for a headlock take-down. Del Rio Irish whips Swagger to the ropes but Swagger takes Del Rio down with a shoulder block. Swagger runs to the ropes with Del Rio jumping over him but Del Rio hurts his knee in the process, giving Swagger a chance to get the upper-hand in the match. Swagger tackles Del Rio into the ropes and shoulder thrusts him into the corner. Swagger goes for a little bit of legwork on Del Rio as the referee pulls him off of Del Rio. Swagger goes outside of the ring, grabbing Del Rio's bad left knee near the ring post but Del Rio fights him off and kicks him in the face with Swagger flying onto the barricade. Del Rio runs outside and kicks Swagger right in the stomach which takes Swagger down. Del Rio then rams Swagger's bad left arm onto the steel steps. Del Rio grabs Swagger and throws him back inside the ring. Del Rio goes for a pin but Swagger kicks out at 1. Del Rio kicks Swagger in the back and goes for another cover but Swagger kicks out at 2. Del Rio tries to go for a suplex but Swagger reverses it and gives Del Rio a suplex instead. Swagger gets Irish whipped into the corner turnbuckle. Del Rio tries to go for a clothesline but Swagger picks him up and throws him with Del Rio's bad left knee landing on the ropes. Swagger does some more legwork on Del Rio's bad left knee and knocks Del Rio outside of the ring as the match heads to commercial break. 

As we head back from commercial break, Swagger works more on Del Rio's bad left knee with Del Rio kicking Swagger right in the face. Swagger runs toward Del Rio in the corner turnbuckle but eats an elbow from Del Rio. Del Rio kicks Swagger right on his bad left arm. Del Rio gets on top of the turnbuckle to jump on Swagger but Swagger shoulders Del Rio right onto his bad left knee. Swagger goes for a pin but Del Rio kicks out at 2. Swagger grabs Del Rio's leg and does more legwork on Del Rio's bad knee. Del Rio fights back and gets the upper-hand for a bit and gets a Crucifix pin on Swagger but Swagger kicks out at 2. Swagger gets up and gives Del Rio a clothesline. Del Rio tries to fight back again but gets tackled into the corner turnbuckle by Swagger who knees him in the stomach. The referee grabs Swagger off of Del Rio but Swagger goes back on Del Rio, going back to the bad left knee. The referee gets Swagger from off Del Rio again. Del Rio eats another clothesline from Swagger. Swagger goes for a cover but Del Rio kicks out a 2. Swagger goes back to Del Rio's left knee. Swagger starts to rip off the tape on Del Rio's left knee and knee-drops onto Del Rio's bad left knee. Swagger goes for a cover yet again but Del Rio kicks out at 2. Swagger goes back to more legwork but Del Rio fights him off. Del Rio goes for a Step-up enzuigiri but misses. Swagger then gives Del Rio a Spinning double-leg take-down. Swagger goes for the cover but that doesn't keep Del Rio down for the 3 count. Del Rio works on Swagger's bad left arm by giving Swagger a Cross-armbreaker from outside the ring apron with the referee breaking it up. Del Rio throws punches at Swagger to take him down but Swagger kicks Del Rio in his bad left knee which takes Del Rio down. 

Jack Swagger goes for a running kick on Del Rio but Del Rio ducks down, going for two clotheslines and a Tilt-a-whirl backbreaker. Del Rio now has the upper-hand in the match. Del Rio hits a backstabber on Swagger and goes for a pin but Swagger kicks out at 2. Del Rio attempts to go for a Cross-armbreaker but Swagger reverses it with Del Rio able to get a roll-up pin on Swagger in which Swagger kicks out at 2. Del Rio is able to apply the Cross-armbreaker submission hold on Swagger halfway but Swagger turns it into the Patriot Act on Del Rio's left knee. Del Rio is able to break the hold by crossing towards the ropes. Del Rio crawls toward the corner turnbuckle but Swagger gives Del Rio a Springboard handstand splash. Swagger goes for a pin but that doesn't put Del Rio out. Swagger attempts to go for another Springboard handstand splash but Del Rio puts his feet up in which Swagger grabs Del Rio's legs with Del Rio kicking him off. Del Rio works on Swagger's arm to gain control of the match. Del Rio looks to go for a Cross-armbreaker to put Swagger out but Swagger sends Del Rio flying outside of the ring. Del Rio gets back inside the ring and kicks Swagger square in the face. Del Rio covers Swagger but Swagger grabs the ropes. Swagger gets Del Rio in the Patriot Act again but Del Rio is able to reverse out of it with him giving Swagger a Cross-armbreaker. Swagger rolls Del Rio during the hold with Del Rio's shoulders on the mat for a pin but Del Rio kicks out. Del Rio gives Swagger a roll-up, successfully getting the 123 count. 

Holy fucking balls, this was WAAAAAY better than their WrestleMania match. This match had a lot of solid armwork and legwork from both Del Rio and Swagger. They also sold their injuries quite well during the match. I wasn't too high on the finish of the match ending in a roll-up. Still, a very solid TV match and definitely miles better than their WrestleMania 29 match, that's for sure.. *Rating: ***3/4.*


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

greendayedgehead said:


> I can't comment on the ONS match. I just... :lol


The pinfall in that match is tremendous, talk about being RATED R. :edge


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2003 WWE STUFF. I was gonna watch the Angle/Lesnar iron man, but I want the full hour so I'm going to go down to a video store and hire the 21st Century Best Grapplers Thingy DVD today to see it. 



Spoiler: MATCH 1!!!!!!



Kurt Angle v. Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 1/19/03)
So yeah, this was good.....until it wasn't. At first it was a pretty heated Chris Benoit trying to quickly win the title from Angle, and Angle was carefully but just as quickly getting the hell out of the trouble he was in. The Sharpshooter, no matter where you see it, is a pretty protected move. Bret Hart in WWF, Sting in WCW, Riki Choshu in New Japan - it puts dudes away. So I really, really dug Angle scurrying the fuck out of the sharpshooter attempts by Benoit because he knew it could be over if Chris locked it in. I was looking forward to a potential 'Angle escapes Benoit's stuff' story, but I knew I wasn't going to get it (b/c I've seen this before duh). So Angle gets on offense, and it's kind of boring. Apparently his idea of a hope spot/control switch spot is an Irish whip and a belly-to-belly throw. Yeah, I dunno, it just bugged me. Why, of every move you can use to change from defense from offense would you use that? It's not the move itself- he used a belly-to-belly when Benoit came running after him, and I found that OK because he's actually catching a dude. But getting up after eating offense and then using an IRISH WHIP + that move just seems so out of place. Angle's submissions are boring as well. All right he has a dude in a choke/grapeviney thing, but I didn't care. It's a smart strategy and everything, but 'smart' doesn't always equal 'fun to watch', especially when 'smart' is 'immobile'. He wasn't doing anything while in it, and I wander off to the knee brace that he's supposed to be milking an injury out of that is completely ignored the whole match. OK, I didn't like Angle in control, but fuck, I hated Angle AND Benoit in control. German > German > German German > German. If these were German ATTEMPTS I would applaud them. No reason that'd be a bother, right? But no, they hit them. Aaaaaaaand crossface > ankle lock > crossface, ankle lock > ankle lock > crossface, German, goes to top rope > Angle sprints up top rope for belly to belly (ugh) > crossface...yeah, I don't give a shit. I get done praising Angle for making the sharpshooter look vicious and something that warrants concern, and then they spam the crap out of finishers in a way that makes them look like they pretty much CAN'T finish the match with any of them. This wasn't the worst case of this (or close to it), and they did the spammy finisher trade better than most might do the spammy finisher trade, but I just hate a fucking spammy finisher trade. One of the worst things about this is the neat shit they did in between all of this stuff. In another moment and match, Angle reversing the crossface with the 'banana split' pin would have been a great spot. Benoit's gigantic 'Angle lands on his belly' suplex would have been a great spot. Benoit reversing the German with the leg-scissor roll-up thingy would have been a great spot. They were in this match though, and this is a match I thought would hold up much better. I won't feel much need to ever watch this again.





Spoiler: MATCH 2!!!!!!



Steve Austin v. The Rock (WrestleMania 3/30/03)
The beginning of this felt like a great feud-continuer or something. Austin chucking the Rock around, Rocky pinballing everywhere and taking rough-looking bumps on clotheslines outside - all the material for a potentially great feud..... squashy...match. YOU GET IT. I don't really love the rest of this. It's good- very good- work, and I can't talk bad about very good work, yet I don't always consider it something remarkable either. Rocky works the leg, Austin kind of forgets about it somewhere. I'm all for limb work as filler. I mean 'filler' makes it sound like I'm insulting it, but it isn't every match where every move is the most important thing in the world. If your 'filler' is limb work, well, that's good filler. Still, I don't like it being forgotten about. Austin was selling it really well, too. Shame. So after that something happens. It's mostly finish-trading, which is done well, but I'm kind of over it. Rocky putting on Austin's vest was obviously awesome and they use each other's moves which was cool. I really have nothing bad to say about this but at the same time I wasn't watching it with 'holy shit this is great' thoughts running through my head. Very good match, though. Still Mania 17 fucking obliterates this.





Spoiler: MATCH 42880 (MATCHES 3-42879 WERE ON MY HARD DRIVE BUT GOT DELETED)!!!!!!



Kurt Angle v. The Undertaker (SmackDown 9/3/03)
I actually thought this was better than the Lesnar HIAC and was an excellent match. This is pretty much how the Benoit match should have gone, and is what I kind of wanted from it. Angle wasn't escaping sharpshooter attempts, but was escaping Taker's gigantic-ness and Taker's 'workover' was way more fun here than it was in the Lesnar HIAC. When they hit the finishing run I didn't stop digging it. The continuous ankle lock actually felt like Angle was escaping all of Taker's moves and going back to the injured ankle. The reversals also came off here how I wanted them to come off during Angle v. Benoit, as the Last Ride into Ankle Lock counter actually looked really cool and exciting. Taker was awesome; he sold the ankle pretty damn greatly in between offensive moves, and hell, during his OWN offensive moves (looked like he could barely stand upright during the last ride). I fucking loved the spot where Taker had Angle by the pulled-down straps and was punching him like a paddleball or something. There was a moment when I thought 'ah they're going to overdo the finishers', but Lesnar came pretty much at that exact point. I'm not going to praise that finish, but I'd actually prefer that than finisher overkill + a clean finish. I think THIS is far and away the pinnacle of Kurt Angle Main Event Wrestling, and I could see myself mayyyyybe voting for it if not for the finish. Best Taker match as the biker, easily, and it might actually be WWE MOTY.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched some of the Foley doc and its as good as everybody is saying. Im not gonna lie and say im a huge foley fan becuase im not not in a bad way just didn't know that much about him,. Gained alot of repsect for him and looked away at some of those bumps he took. That dvd really is making me want to go watch the backlash -4 with orton and mind games with Hbk again. Is that backlash match that good ? never seen it


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just finished watching the Foley documentary, long, but great and well worth watching. Lots of stuff like his early life and early career were new to me, and some of his stuff in The Attitude Era I hadn't seen before so that was nice to see. Good to see him really put over his matches with Orton and Edge. Really gained more respect for the guy after watching this, and it gave me much more of an insight into his career and life. Would recommend everyone to watch it.



redskins25 said:


> That dvd really is making me want to go watch the backlash -4 with orton and mind games with Hbk again. Is that backlash match that good ? never seen it


It's very good. *****1/2* from me and it's one of the best matches from 2004. I've posted the match in response to another poster above, if you want to check it out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Spoiler: MATCH 2!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lies @ the last time. LIES I say.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> 2003 WWE STUFF. I was gonna watch the Angle/Lesnar iron man, but I want the full hour so I'm going to go down to a video store and hire the 21st Century Best Grapplers Thingy DVD today to see it.


I looked for this for you and was going to upload it but I only found it ripped from a dvd and don't know how to up those files. I've never seen the Ironman match so prob gonna watch tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Foley/HBK at Mind Games is fucking awesome.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

*clears throat*

O.K., if I were to attempt to make a case for the opinion that Dustin Rhodes was a better worker than Chris Jericho, how chastised would I be? Not in an attempt to ruffle feathers but the more Dustin I watch & the more Jericho I watch...it does not seem that far-fetched to me.



Coffey said:


> This is my list so far but it is still a work in progress. There are some names excluded that I want to squeak in there but don't think I can.


Been tinkering with my list some more. Excluded Puroresu stars (sans some Americans with great Japanese work). Also moved around some guys.

Stan Hansen
Terry Funk
Ric Flair
Ricky Steamboat
Randy Savage
Jerry Lawler
Bret Hart
Rick Rude
Curt Hennig
Eddie Guerrero
Arn Anderson
Shawn Michaels
The Undertaker
Ricky Morton
Rey Mysterio, Jr.
Dusty Rhodes
Big Van Vader
Barry Windham
Tully Blanchard

Only 19 instead of 20 because I don't want to accidentally leave off a name. So if I think of one (or three) I can just tell myself "he's #20!" & feel good about it. Ha! Dr. Death, Flyin' Brian, I dunno...


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Still find it absolutely scandalous that Foley isn't in your Top 20 Coffey.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Mick foley vs Randy Orton Basklash 04*
So I decide to watch this after watch some of the Foley Dvd, I was really looking forward to watch after hearing great reviews also. The promo package is on of the best I have ever seen, foley is a top 5 mic workers hands down.Mick also looks in great shape for this one too. Starts off with Foley taking it to orton, followed by barbed wired weapon being brought in the match. Long story short great match, very very entertaining, and was non stop fun. Definitely one of if not randy best match. *****3/4* for me, love this is and it has quickly became one of my favorite match of all time


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> *Mick foley vs Randy Orton Basklash 04*
> So I decide to watch this after watch some of the Foley Dvd, I was really looking forward to watch after hearing great reviews also. The promo package is on of the best I have ever seen, foley is a top 5 mic workers hands down.Mick also looks in great shape for this one too. Starts off with Foley taking it to orton, followed by barbed wired weapon being brought in the match. Long story short great match, very very entertaining, and was non stop fun. Definitely one of if not randy best match. *****3/4* for me, love this is and it has quickly became one of my favorite match of all time


Wait you just now saw that match?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Nice, somebody in my same boat. I did the same thing yesterday or the day before with that match after never seeing it prior.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Austin/Rock Mania XIX is one of the GOAT matches.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Dopesick said:


> Still find it absolutely scandalous that Foley isn't in your Top 20 Coffey.


Foley is really weird for me. I liked him in WCW, hated him in Japan. Always thought he was a good promo. His ECW, sans a few promos, was forgettable. In WWF he had a few good matches & promos, but nothing making him Top 20 for me. He certainly wouldn't be above Dr. Death or Bam Bam Gordy for me. I don't dislike him.

In a month my list will be all over the place again though. The more stuff you watch that is new to you, or you get bored with someone & burn yourself out of them or whatever. The numbers fluctuate. 

Lately I've been on a tag team kick where I'm watching a lot of tag stuff but focusing on individual performances. A lot of Steiner Brothers, Nasty Boys, Midnight Express. I think it's hard to put a tag wrestler up against a singles wrestler when they didn't have big singles runs themselves. Like Bret & Shawn were both tag workers that later had a lot of singles success. Even Eaton had a solo run or two.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

How bout the road warriors what u think of them


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> I looked for this for you and was going to upload it but I only found it ripped from a dvd and don't know how to up those files. I've never seen the Ironman match so prob gonna watch tonight or tomorrow.


I went blockbuster. It was annoying and I left immediately and was not in the mood. I'll skip ahead for now and watch the iron man when I get a chance. Thanks for considering an upload. 



Coffey said:


> *clears throat*
> 
> O.K., if I were to attempt to make a case for the opinion that Dustin Rhodes was a better worker than Chris Jericho, how chastised would I be? Not in an attempt to ruffle feathers but the more Dustin I watch & the more Jericho I watch...it does not seem that far-fetched to me.


I don't want to ruffle feathers by saying THIS, but Dustin completely smokes Jericho and there's absolutely zero doubt in my mind that Jericho doesn't even come close. I'd find a "Jericho is a better worker than Dustin" argument more interesting because I'd wonder how anyone would actually go about arguing it. Really I think Dustin laps Jericho several times over.

This is assuming 'worker' meant 'ring work/bell-to-bell/matches/etcwhatever'. Promos 'n' the other stuff I don't care about (GRAPZNERDFOHTEHWIN)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gonna have to check out that Swagger/Del Rio Smackdown match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Brock Lesnar vs Edge - Rebellion 2002*

Brock had just come off beating the Undertaker inside Hell in a Cell at No Mercy and Edge was his next challenger. This was actually billed as a handicap match with Heyman as Brock's partner, and they played up the fact that Edge could pin Heyman and Brock could lose the title, and also hinted at Brock and Heyman splitting up.

Early on in the match they really played up Edge's quickness and let him get into Brock's head a bit. Heyman was on his game as always, being the great heel manager that he is. He also had his WRISTS TAPED for this bout, and took a few bumps, including a spear from Edge off the apron and an axe handle. 

This was a pretty enjoyable match. Brock worked Edge's ribs over good and used his Brock Lock that had "retired Hulk Hogan". Edge battled back after his hand almost dropping for the three count. He even got a few nearfalls, first on Heyman with Brock breaking it up, then off a missile drop kick. The finishing sequence I liked - Brock ducked the cross body and Edge hit the referee. Brock got Edge up for the F-5 and Edge countered into the Impaler DDT, but of course the ref is still out. Heyman slides the chair in and goes to distract the Edge, while Brock grabs the chair, misses wildly, and turns into the spear. Ref slowly gets back and we get a BIG nearfall. Edge returns to the top rope, and since the ref is still groggy, Lesnar hits the steel chair to the midsection and follows up with the F-5 for the victory. ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Coffey said:


> *clears throat*
> 
> O.K., if I were to attempt to make a case for the opinion that Dustin Rhodes was a better worker than Chris Jericho, how chastised would I be? Not in an attempt to ruffle feathers but the more Dustin I watch & the more Jericho I watch...it does not seem that far-fetched to me.


By none. Only people who would "chastise" would be the lot who haven't seen Rhodes work outside of the stuff he did as Goldust. Which doesn't surprised ANYONE when the knowledge isn't vast & doesn't exceed past random WWF/WWE junk. I'm a big Jericho fan myself, but even I know the parallels between himself & Rhodes differ greatly. Mind you, that I do prefer early 90's WCW over most other forms of wrestling out there. Naturally I'm inclined to agree or find logic behind this mindset, at the very least. Anyone who doesn't kneel at the altar of Vince McMahon _(credit to Dopesick for such an eloquent line)_ won't be blown away by this claim in the slightest.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't want to ruffle feathers by saying THIS, but Dustin completely smokes Jericho and there's absolutely zero doubt in my mind that Jericho doesn't even come close. I'd find a "Jericho is a better worker than Dustin" argument more interesting because I'd wonder how anyone would actually go about arguing it. Really I think Dustin laps Jericho several times over.





HayleySabin said:


> By none. Only people who would "chastise" would be the lot who haven't seen Rhodes work outside of the stuff he did as Goldust. Which doesn't surprised ANYONE when the knowledge isn't vast & doesn't exceed past random WWF/WWE junk. I'm a big Jericho fan myself, but even I know the parallels between himself & Rhodes differ greatly. Mind you, that I do prefer early 90's WCW over most other forms of wrestling out there. Naturally I'm inclined to agree or find logic behind this mindset, at the very least. Anyone who doesn't kneel at the altar of Vince McMahon _(credit to Dopesick for such an eloquent line)_ won't be blown away by this claim in the slightest.


Breath of fresh air. This thread gives me a lot of hope for this forum. It feels almost like it is on a different website a lot of the time. Maybe because it's stickied or just so big, I don't know, but a lot of the less knowledgeable posters don't seem to frequent this thread that often. Not that the opinion I presented would make someone less knowledgeable if they disagreed with it mind you but it's nice to see people that will actually read something, think about it & then reply without just posting initial gut reactions based on being WWE fans solely. Of course, I'm sure it did help that you both agreed with me too. 

I have just really liked almost everything I have seen from Dustin from the early 90's WCW days. And it's not like his Goldust run was bad. Although his Black Reign days certainly were. But Jericho, for me, I honestly feel like he peaked in WCW. I have not really liked any of his multiple WWE runs, whether as a heel or a babyface. I wasn't real big on him with his Japan work either. I found him lacking in the Super J Cup. Honestly never seen his Mexico stuff & found him extremely sloppy & green in ECW. I don't buy into Jericho being a top worker at all. I find him vastly overrated & I would never use a word above "good" to describe him. I'm not really sure at what point he became an internet darling but I bet it had more to do with talking trash about the likes of Kevin Nash & putting Goldberg in a shoot headlock than it did his matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think it was Jericho's popularity that grew during his entertaining WCW work/WWF peak that garnered his rise among the masses. Which, I can't say is fault worthy as - like I stated - a big Jericho fan in my own right. He's been sloppy in some performances when he shouldn't have been though. I've always noticed it. Not sure anyone tried to claim him as an ultra smooth worker though. You know, he's not Eddie or Rey for more mainstream cruiserweights into big WWE stars type purposes for comparison. Jericho has had a slew of good matches in his career. He works hard. I can see that being where the praise comes from too. Someone the fans felt they could really see the work ethic of in full form from being low on the card and rising all the way up to the main event. I think that can speak to many fans - casual or "knowledgeable" - all the same.

Dustin is a gem. Not amongst everyone. Amongst LOTS that just clearly haven't taken the time to watch his pre-WWF work. No different than Bobby Eaton whenever I bring him up to sing his praises. I'll often say Eaton >...idk Shawn Michaels to get my point across about how tremendous Eaton is, yet I'll probably be glared at as someone who is "nuts" or "absurd" to think such a thing. I used Shawn here b/c at least Shawn had a great career point while with The Rockers. Emphasizes how strong of a worker Eaton was, imo. I wouldn't dare waste time saying Eaton > Triple H. That's obvious. Eaton smokes the fool. Much of the same how Rhodes does too. See, I made this not be so self-indulgent towards my opinions and had it all come around full circle. :side:

Lets not mention Dustin's work in TNA anymore. Not his best time, haha. Pardon one good match he had with Kid Kash in January of 2005.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got a link to Taker's match with Festus? Clique did post a video link but i forgot to save it, thx.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brilliant match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley, advice on any **** matches from Superstars '10?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Many thanks mate, repped


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Hayley, advice on any **** matches from Superstars '10?


Only 4+?

Dolph Ziggler vs Chris Masters - 5/13
William Regal vs Goldust - 8/26
Drew McIntyre vs Chris Masters - 8/26

Quite a bit of others are close to the mark. Those are the only ones that got the marks via my snowflakes if that means anything. Tons to see from the year.



zep81 said:


> Many thanks mate, repped


:hayley3


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> *Brock Lesnar vs Edge - Rebellion 2002*


Enjoyable match, and good review. I liked that it was a handicap match rather than a straight up one on one, with Heyman in danger of getting pinned throughout. Edge getting this match looked as if he was going to jump into the main event picture sooner at that point, but then of course he got that huge injury that kept him out until 2004.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for the advice, Hayley. Will def. check out those, especially Goldy/Regal. With that said, I'm throwing some random ratings:

*Swagger/Matt RR '09*: ***1/4. Storytelling was dope, especially for Matt who was selling like hell his frustrations on being dominated by a newbie in Swagger like that. Wrestling was crisp, crowd was OK.

*HBK/JBL NWO '09:* ***1/2. Storytelling here was G-O-L-D. Almost Eddie/JBL good in that department. Nice match overall, you'll really enjoy if you like vendetta'ish performances.

*Jericho/Steamboat BL '09:* ***1/4. Steamboat putting on matches like these at his age is ridiculous. Pretty sweet match here between two of the GOAT, essentially what the WM match should've been over that Handicap.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Regal vs Goldust may be the best sub-seven minute match I've ever seen. Heaven.

Never liked Bradshaw vs Michaels. Always thought their RAW match following it was much, much better. Legit bored each time I watch the NWO match. Didn't help knowing the order of the matches on that event were all out of whack. Two big gimmick matches to take all of the energy away from the crowd, then a ECW championship match the fans certainly didn't care to see, followed by a methodical approach match? Yeah, they didn't have a chance in hell. Even with HBK involved with the latter.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

@Yeah & Hayley, with the Dustin Rhodes pimpage, how would you place him against his father? Dusty's main work is rather weird. He is a very good worker/wrestler, imo, but hasn't left a trail of excellent matches, that Dustin has.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd place Dustin over Dusty. I love Dusty too, but the work seen from Dustin's early '90's runs have most of Dusty's from the 80's beat for me. _(perhaps his 70's work his better?)_ Wouldn't mind seeing more of Dusty's tag work with Murdoch either. Find myself a bigger fan of Dusty in tags _(and brawls)_ than singles matches. Pardon the one vs Windham at GAB '88. Holy crap do I ever love that match.

A big part of this opinion comes from me not exactly digging a good bit of the Flair vs Dusty matches. I mean, they're fine. They just don't pop out at me like I thought they would. Those two charismatic men vs one another in their lengthy, legendary feud? You'd think it would be perfect. Only, the matches I've seen at least, they're ok. Went in expecting much better.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I agree with the Flair/Dusty comments, their Starrcade '84 & '85 matches were extremely underwhelming. Their GAB86 match, much better. He had a solid feud with Blanchard, but again, not the best line of matches, except that TV match. March 4th 86. Love that one.

He was one of those wrestlers that despite being great in singles, doesn't stand out because other wrestlers don't work off against him very well. I'd probably put it down to him requiring to be too dominant, and matches are only going to work when he's on the backfoot (like vs Tully in the match started above).

Definately can't wait until I break into Dustin's '90s work. Finally decided to stop watching weeklies in the deadzone before big events. So should be soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got to finish the Four Horsemen DVD to see Dusty vs Tully First Blood again. I recall your review on it claiming it to be a disappointment in your opinion. I got to see where it ranks up for me.

Weeklies are always fun. Although, you know the bulk of the show are squashes just to build up to the big events. While some of those could be wicked gems, it probably is best only to catch the one or two premiere matches set for the week to have things zip along faster while watching. Not an illogical format despite not seeing every match possible.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the Taker/Batista series recently, always one of my faves, can never decide if i like the WM or CS match more, saw this video to the series too:

*Undertaker vs Batista Rivalry in 2007 *


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> I got to finish the Four Horsemen DVD to see Dusty vs Tully First Blood again. I recall your review on it claiming it to be a disappointment in your opinion. I got to see where it ranks up for me.
> 
> Weeklies are always fun. Although, you know the bulk of the show are squashes just to build up to the big events. While some of those could be wicked gems, it probably is best only to catch the one or two premiere matches set for the week to have things zip along faster while watching. Not an illogical format despite not seeing every match possible.


I remember disliking the match, but all I can remember is the finish, which from memory, I enjoyed. But it was a bit of a sour disappointment for me. I was hoping something akin to their earlier matches.

For weeklies, I think I watched the only two incredible matches from Worldwide/Pro, being Garvin/Blanchard & Flair/Windham. Will definately have to watch the shows leading up to Starrcade, since that is the only conventional PPV. Most weeks don't have a big match-up, and with the addition of the New Breed, and their bloody haircuts, gimmick being from the year 2002, whacky, I feel the temptation to skip through it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It is sporadic. My mistake getting caught up in the standard of WCW Saturday Night as opposed to Crockett weekly NWA. That differed. Speaking of, I got an Anderson vs Ronnie Garvin match on one I own. Don't remember a single thing about it. I know Ron Garvin wasn't "omg level" but it's a lengthy Arn match from '88. It should have a redeeming quality or two all thanks to him.

The New Breed. My goodness. There is a gimmick most didn't even know existed. If they did, I'm certain they would have wanted to forget it.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Could be worth a view (Anderson/Garvin), just before Garvin went off to the WWF and commited a slight career suicide? If you ever get back to watching it, through out a review if possible. 

Coming from the year 2002 to save the tag division from the Rock n Roll Express, and only doing that. Should of just told Crockett Jr on how to avoid the mistakes he made which forced the sale to Turner. First impressions from the New Breed was just fast forward. Everything about them just made me laugh. Another 1987 JCP gimmick that is just hilariously bad is Lazor-Tron. Made better by teaming with Jimmy Valiant. Looking back over them, can see they were definately desperate for a slice of the kid market the WWF had locked in.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Had a few requests for this, thought it may be popular, thought id upload it:

*The Rock vs HHH - Judgment Day 2000

Iron Man Match*

Tagged Classic Version - Unedited/Unblurred:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...-vs-hhh-judgment-day-2000-a.html#post17237970


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As I continue my PG Era trip, here are the 2011 PPV star ratingz (post-rewatch):

*Royal Rumble*
Edge/Ziggler: **** (Stupid ending but pretty amazing match)
Miz/Orton: ***
Natalya/Michelle/Eve/Layla: *3/4
40-Man Royal Rumble: ***3/4
*Pretty good, perhaps the sleeper PPV of '11.*

*Elimination Chamber*
Kofi/ADR: ***1/2 (GEM)
SD Chamber: ****1/2
Santino & Kozlov/Slater & Gabriel: *1/4
Miz/Lawler: ***1/2
Raw Chamber: ***3/4
*Amazing stuff.*

*WrestleMania 27*
Edge/ADR: ***1/2
Rey/Cody: ***3/4
8-Man Tag: DUD
Punk/Orton: ***1/2
Lawler/Cole: DUD
Taker/HHH: ****1/2
Fuckery with Snooki: *1/4 (Not bad for what it was)
Miz/Cena: 1/4*
*A show of two faces, one being very good and the other fucking atrocious.*

*Extreme Rules*
Punk/Orton: ***3/4
Sheamus/Kofi: **3/4
Lawler & JR/Cole & Swagger: DUD
Rey/Cody: ***3/4
Michelle/Layla: **3/4
Christian/ADR: ****1/4
Kane & Show/Barrett & Zeke: 1/2*
Miz/Cena/Morrison: ***3/4
*As consistent as it can get.*

*(I'm) Over The Lim... *throw-up**
Rey/Truth: ***1/4 (GEM)
Barrett/Zeke: 1/4*
Cara/Chavo: 1/4*
Kane & Show/Punk & Ryan: **1/2
Brie/Kelly: 1/2*
Orton/Christian: ****1/2
Lawler/Cole: DUD
Cena/Miz: 1/4*
*Is it just me or was this worse than Capi-LOL Punishment?*

*Capi-LOL Punishment*
Kofi/Ziggler: **1/4
Miz/Riley: **
Show/ADR: **3/4
Barrett/Zeke: *1/2
Punk/Rey: ****1/4
Orton/Christian: ***1/2
Swagger/Bourne: 1/4*
Cena/Truth: DUD
*LOL.*

*Money In The Bank*
SD MITB: ****1/2
Kelly/Brie: *3/4
Show/Henry: ***
Raw MITB: ***3/4
Orton/Christian: ***3/4
Cena/Punk: ****3/4
:mark: :mark:

*SummerSlam*
6-Man Tag: ***
Sheamus/Henry: ***1/4
Kelly/Beth: **3/4
Bryan/Barrett: ****
Christian/Orton: ****1/2
Punk/Cena: ****1/4
Punk/ADR: N/R
:mark: :mark: :mark:

*Night Of Champions*
Air Boom/Awesome Truth: **3/4
Cody/DiBiase Jr: **3/4
Ziggler/Swagger/Morrison/Riley: ***
Orton/Henry: ***3/4
Kelly/Beth: *1/2
ADR/Cena: ***
HHH/Punk: ***3/4
*:mar...* :argh: *It was pretty good I guess. *

*Hell In A Cell*
Sheamus/Christian: ***1/4
Cara/Hunico: 1/4*
Air Boom/ZiggSwagg: ***1/4
Henry/Orton: ***
Cody/Morrison: **1/4
Kelly/Beth: 1/2*
Cena/Punk/ADR: ****
*Meh, expected more.*

*Vengeance*
Air Boom/ZiggSwagg: ***1/2
Ziggler/Ryder: **1/4
Beth/Eve: *** (Behind the 1st Beth/Gail as the Divas MOTY for '11)
Sheamus/Christian: ***
HHH & Punk/Awesome Truth: **
Cody/Orton: ***
Henry/Show: ***1/2
ADR/Cena: ***1/4
*Really good, no great matches but no bad ones either.*

*Survivor Series*
Ziggler/Morrison: ***1/2 (GEM but bizarre as hell though)
Beth/Eve: *1/4
Team Orton/Team Barrett: **
Henry/Show: **
ADR/Punk: ****1/4
Just Bring Fruitty Pebbles/Awesome Truth: **1/2
*It's love it or hate it, and even though the wrestling was average bar 2 matches, the buzz, big time feel and atmosphere nailed it for me. *

*TLC*
Ziggler/Ryder: ***3/4
Air Boom/Primo & Epico: **3/4
Orton/Barrett: ***
Beth/Kelly: 1/2*
HHH/Nash: **3/4 (Shocked at how good this was)
Sheamus/Swagger: **1/2
Henry/Show: **
Show/Bryan: N/R
Cody/Booker: **
Punk/ADR/Miz: ****
*TLC never fails to deliever.*


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Can someone pm me the link to the Foley doc that a few people had a couple of pages back please?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Foley Blu-Ray arrived on Friday, and I've just finished it all. Easily one of the GOAT releases from WWE.

I already had a ton of respect for Foley but it grew even more after watching the doc. I won't lie, he even made me feel a bit sad at the end when he talks about how he is in pain all the time but can't complain because he has no regrets and he knows he had a great career. Seeing him hobbling down some steps gave me a horrible sad twinge in my stomach. 

This dude literally gave of his body and mind for our entertainment, and whether you love him or think he was just a glorified stunt man you have to respect him.

He helped so many people over the years too. After Undertaker made him a star and gave him credibility with the WWE fans, he helped prepare Rock for the main event. Rock was on the cusp of greatness and even though he was the champion he was still missing that true mean streak. The feud with Foley absolutely brought that mean streak to the forefront and I think a lot of people looked at Rock as more of a threat once the feud was over and done with. There was no doubt he was absolutely ready for Austin at Wrestlemania 15 after Foley had worked his magic with him.

He went on to get Triple H over as THE piece of shit top heel in the company. And he even came out of retirement to get Foley over and then helped Edge get a defining Wrestlemania moment. 

Foley is a legit top 5 ever for me.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Foley is easily top 5 for me and maybe even top 3, have so much respect for the guy it's unreal. 

Started watching the Best of Nitro Vol 2, really enjoying it so far.

Got so much lined up to watch at the moment; Best of Nitro Vol 2, Jericho Set, Saturday Nights Main Event set, Clash of the Champions set and then got a few packs from xwt as well. Lots of great stuff


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched HART vs HART from SummerSlam 1994. AWESOME match is all I can say. And what's with all these HARTs at ringside? How many of them are there, lol. ★★★★.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Since it's April I'll rate an April ppv primarily Backlash. I'll go with 2006.

Theme song "Baby Hates Me" by Danko Jones (or Baby I hated this show).

Carlito vs Chris Masters **
Ric Flair vs Umaga *
Mickie James vs Trish Stratus *1/2
Big Show vs Kane DUD
RVD vs Shelton Benjamin ***1/4
The McMahons vs HBK and God: DUD. JR best described this match and storyline perfectly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyGjU_xBOQo
Cena vs HHH vs Edge **3/4

4.5/10. I was really losing interest in WWE during this time.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Spoiler: WarGames One!



*Great American Bash 1987.
WARGAMES I!*
Road Warriors (Animal, Hawk & Paul Ellering), Dusty Rhodes & Nikita Koloff vs The Horsemen (Ric Flair, Tully Blanchard, Arn Anderson, Lex Luger & J.J Dillon)

By god, I loved this match on the first watch. How it was structed was just fantastic. The heels holding the person advantage throughout the fight, and the finish with Dillon submitting was the only, and best way, for it to end. Simple, and perfect. So, it should hold up to the initial impressions. It'll be too hard to keep track of all the action, so I'll just summarise.


Ric Flair's music opening. Felt like something itself entirely when that music rang through the arena as they walked down the aisle, into the land unknown. Fitted the occasion, sold the match for me.

Dusty opening with Arn is one I felt could of been done better. They don't have much of a rivalry, at least when you have Blanchard & Flair involved. I reckon the match would of worked better with Dusty & Tully in, keep what they did the same, then have Anderson come in to start the beatdown on Dusty. It's the only negative I can truely think of. The order of everyone else fitted.

Always very curious why they didn't just build a ring without the ropes in the middle. Everyone just stumbles through them.

The ring action between the first five entrants was just an all out brawl, nothing very pretty, nothing overly impressive. All would come good though. In comes Nikita. The psychology applied to his neck is top notch. I do reckon he could of sold it better when he was back & moving around, but what they do against him, ahhh. Brainbusters, suplexes, head first into the cage. And of course, them mesmerising piledrivers. From memory, outlawed. But this was WARGAMES! Anything & everything was legal.

Don't think Nikita got his hands on Flair since Starrcade 86, so I saw their brief staredown as something fantastic. Flair tried his chops, but Nikita came to realise, it was Flair, and chases him around.

Can hear Jim Ross shouting, screaming, but I can't fully understand him. He was selling this match with the intensity of the screaming, but the crowd was just eating everything, every bit of the action up. It's a pity, since I was hearing bits of his usual catchphrases.

J.J just eats the beatdown of all beatdowns. Thrown into the cage, constant punches, clotheslines by the Warriors.

Ric Flair using one of the Warriors' shoulderpads as a weapon just gets chuckles out of me. Fantastic to watch.

Wasn't a wrestling masterclass, but, it's WarGames. Shouldn't be one. Just open yourself up for a brutal, massive brawl, and some fine detailing in and around. They had a hard time chartering the potential massacre it could of been, but it laid down the ground work for the rest of the WarGames series. Fantastic, extremely enjoyable 26 minutes.​



Gets a ****1/2 from me. A classic, everything you should want from a match like this. Simple in psychology, structure and execution. Never a dull moment. I reckon if they had done a WarGames in the past, this would of been flawless. They had a hard time keeping track of everything, had they not been launching the match for the first time, they'd have a far better understanding how to work this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***3/4 for the main event, ***1/2 for the tag. Show/Kane is enjoyable. RVD/Shelton is good. Overall a pretty great event imo (Backlash 06)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Marv95 said:


> Carlito vs Chris Masters **
> Ric Flair vs Umaga *
> Mickie James vs Trish Stratus *1/2
> Big Show vs Kane DUD
> ...


That was pretty harsh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Disc Two of the Foley DVD is solid. The WCW matches have a ton of quality with the Sting and the astoundingly short Van Hammer match both being great, as well as the IYH Canadian Stampede match against HHH being nothing but quality also. They just HAD to include a Sandman match though, didn't they? The alternate commentary tracks have been excellent from Styles and Foley, and the match selection has been unreleased on comps for the most part so I can't really complain in the slightest. No CLASSIC matches yet at all but quality and interesting matches to say the least up and down the board.

I need to drop Disc Three of my Dungeon Collection review up here very shortly, as it's been WAY overdue.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm gonna review one of THE best ppv's, ever.

*No Way Out 2001 *

Hardcore title, Raven (Winner) Vs Big Show: *1/4
Intercontinental Championship, Chris Jericho (Winner) vs Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Beniot vs X-pac: ***1/2
Stephanie McMahon (Winner) Vs Trish Stratus: ***1/4
2/3 Falls: Triple H Vs Stone Cold Steve Austin (Winner): ***** (Top 10 match, ever.)
Steven Richards (Winner) Vs Jerry the King Lawler:*
WWF Tag Team Championship, triple threat tables match: Dudley Boyz (Winner) Vs Brothers of Destruction Vs Edge And Christain: **3/4
WWF Championship: Kurt Angle Vs Rock (Winner): ****1/2

Hell of a ppv, top 5 of all time.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Austin/HHH was nowhere near 5*, I'm sorry. I give it a ****1/2 at max


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Austin/HHH was nowhere near 5*, I'm sorry. I give it a ****1/2 at max


That's your opinion. It was better than Rock Vs Stone Cold,IMO.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'll give it *** max.

Austin/Rock 17 is leagues better.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It depends, better than Rock/Austin from Rebellion, that's for sure


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I'll give it *** max.
> 
> Austin/Rock 17 is leagues better.


Storyline wise, Austin Vs Rock was better, match quality Triple H vs Austin. Overall, what did you think of NWO 2001?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock/Austin WM17>>>Austin/HHH NWO 2001. 

And Austin/Angle Summerslam 2001 over both of them as 2001 MOTY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/4 for Austin/HHH NWO 01.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Rock/Austin WM17>>>Austin/HHH NWO 2001.
> 
> And Austin/Angle Summerslam 2001 over both of them as 2001 MOTY.


:clap

Couldnt agree more mate, i was ever so slightly disappointed last time i watched HHH/Austin tbh, maybe ***3/4 from me. Wasn't that keen on it early on, esp the first fall.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 for 2001 while we're at it:

(****3/4)
1) Austin/Angle SS 2001
2) Benoit/Jericho RR 2001
(****1/2)
3) Austin/Rock WM17
(****1/4)
4) Rock/Jericho NM 2001
5) Austin/Benoit SD 2001


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Have to rewatch Benoit/Jericho and Austin/Benoit


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What's the hate for HHH Vs Austin, at NWO 2001? Many reviewers rated a ***** match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Top 5 for 2001 while we're at it:
> 
> (****3/4)
> 1) Austin/Angle SS 2001
> ...


 I noticed Austin/Rock has gone down in ratings for you. I think you rated it as a ***** match before.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

(*****)
1. Austin/Angle SS 01
(****3/4)
2. Austin/Benoit SD Edmonton
3. Benoit/Jericho RR 01
(****1/2)
4. Power Trip/Canadians tag Raw 01
5. Austin/Rock WM 17

If only Benoit was around all year


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What are all the ***** macthes? (in your opinion)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Bret "Hitman" Hart : The Dungeon Collection (Disc Three)*​

WWF Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. Diesel - ****
King of the Ring '94

No Holds Barred
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - *** 1/2
RAW 3/27/1995

Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte - *** 1/2
IYH 3: Triple Header 9/24/1995

Bret Hart vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin - ****
Sun City Superbowl 9/14/1996

WWF Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. The Patriot - *** 3/4
IYH: Ground Zero 9/7/1997

WCW United States Championship
Bret Hart (c) vs. Booker T - * 3/4
Nitro 1/25/1999

WCW Championship Tournament - Semi Final
Bret Hart vs. Sting - * 1/4
Mayhem 11/21/1999

Nothing but LOVE for the KOTR match with Diesel as we reach the first four star match on the set IMO and one of the best matches in the career of Kevin Nash (he had ALL of them with Shawn and Bret it seems). The leg work done by Bret is tremendous as he shows that while he can work with smaller guys ALA the 1-2-3 Kid, he can also use his superior sense of psychology to work a match with a guy like Diesel by attacking the base and chopping the proverbial tree down. Shawn is AMAZINGLY dickish as a manager here as I'm guessing he had enough cocaine in his system there to kill an average human being, but he's HBKOKE so what doesn't kill him makes him stronger. Yeah, one of the finest performances I've seen from Bret, and Diesel sells the legs pretty well too. These guys would go on and have better matches, but they have some of the most underrated chemistry in WWE history so take that as you may.

No Holds Barred with Owen, while I'd consider to be one of their weaker contests certainly isn't a slouch of a match by any means as these two just fucking brought it. They went out there and brought a certain intensity to the match that we don't see from Bret all that often in a physical sense, but when Bret does get overly physical it seems to always be worth watching (Austin series especially). Owen could play that chickenshit heel so well with Bret being the ultimate good guy who wants to take the high road and squash things with Owen but ultimately chooses to do the right thing and fight his brother. More physical than the rest of their contests and I'm always a fan of Bret vs Owen matches as again, they have some AMAZING chemistry as evidenced by them having the second greatest WWF/WWE match in history.

Bret vs Jean-Pierre Lafitte, YES. These are the kind of matches I love against Bret ; put him against an obscure opponent/random big man and watch him work his magic and turn it into a great match, kind of like somebody else in today's WWE (gee, wonder who I'm referring to). Lafitte shows off incredible athleticism here for a big man but Bret isn't having any of it and despite taking a pretty good heel beatdown, manages to conjure up a really, really excellent babyface comeback sequence. Matches like these are why Bret is one of the greatest ever ; besides his WCW garbage, he never managed to let his motor run cold and he always performed balls to the wall and tailor made matches to extract the highest potential out of his opponent. The third match in a row I'd recommend watching on this set.

Bret Hart vs Steve Austin, need I say more? If I were to describe the match I'd probably call it a poor man's version of the Survivor Series 1996 match (Top 10 WWF/WWE match ever, so it's certainly a compliment) with a mixture of brawling and technical wrestling (fucking hate that term) with a fixed emphasis on the transitions and counters, but with extreme intensity and character work kind of like a Chris Benoit match. Bret plays the rusty hero in this one while Austin plays the bad ass heel who wants to cripple Bret but at the same time out wrestle Bret and prove that he is the better man, leading to some really awesome exchanged between the two. This is a damn near classic match and the best on the set IMO as this disc is shaping up to be one of the best I've ever seen.

The Patriot match is one of the most underrated matches of 1997 and I really mean that. You know where I said how Bret can tailor make a match to suit essentially any competitor? This is a perfect example as you take the conventional WWF style with an increased emphasis on false finishes, and you use it to tell the story that HEY, THE PATRIOT CAN FUCKING WIN THIS MATCH.The way Bret sells for the Patriot is fantastic, making Wilkes look like a fucking boss on offense for the most part during his babyface comeback. Bret working heel is always a sight to see as he is wrestling with a certain attitude that we don't always see from the guy, watching this match you can really tell the frustration and anger that he's harboring inside at the moment, something you don't always see in a guy's work. Fantastic match and definitely recommended to those who want to see a good Bret carryjob.

The WCW matches, fuck them. The Sting match has some of the worst structuring that I have ever seen in a match while the Booker match has it's moments but ultimately fails to resemble anything good at the end of the day. I don't know why Bret wanted this included in the set as his run in WCW should be buried and forgotten about forever and it really makes the DVD go out on a sour note, but I GUESS I can understand? Well not really because Bret HIMSELF hates WCW, I just think it should have ended with a little something different.

*Overall Disc Rating : 8.25/10*

While I don't think that "The Dungeon Collection" is going to show up on any DVD OF THE YEAR lists due to it's sheer lack of classic matches, it should definitely be used as the blueprint for future legends collections in the future. I mean, who wouldn't want an unreleased Flair/Taker/HBK/Austin set? There's alot of potential to be had here, and I feel that although there's a lack of CLASSICS, we get a really consistent array of great matches on this set to make it a must buy for all fans of GOOD WRESTLING. 11 out of 19 matches I have at over three stars on this one, so the consistency is nice to see, especially with the Bret carryjobs such as the Lafitte/Patriot/Nash matches that really show how great of a worker that Bret really was.

*Top Five Matches On The Set*

1. vs Steve Austin (Sun City Superbowl 9/14/1996)
2. vs Diesel (King of the Ring 1994)
3. vs The Patriot (In Your House ; Ground Zero 1997)
4. vs Mr. Perfect (Maple Leaf Gardens 4/23/1989)
5. vs The Undertaker (MSG 1/31/1992)
​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: just totally remembered the Submit or Surrender match with Sting is on the Foley DVD. Thought they threw the 92 match on the set for the billionth time, but nope. Watching now, hope it holds up as being awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Look at that, a Disc 3 reviewe and I didn't even have to ask for it! I definitely liked the Diesel match but all of Shawn's interference bothered me. Prefer thir Rumble match to it (yes I know that has a lot of interference too. ) The Austin match could've used more time, but it was still great. I personally would put it in the discussion for DVD of the Year just because it's literally nothing but gems & I loved all of Bret's interview pieces, such an easy set to sit through. Blu Ray extras are quality too.

--------

That dude was REAL harsh on Backlash 06... 

Bret/Owen Cage Match is ***** for me. CLASSIC


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Foley certainly was an excellent foil as a crazed lunatic heel to Sting's ultimate face.

Oh the DVD as a whole is awesome, my point was that since I'm a mark for Bret and I'm big on DVDs not using repeats for matches, it should definitely be in the DVDOTY discussion but won't, simply because of the lack of "classic" matches. I'm also a huge fan of "Champion vs random challengers" formula as evidenced by my love for Bret and Cena, which is what makes the Lafitte & Patriot matches so awesome. Survivor Series 1995 is without a doubt Nash's best match by a mile though, what a performance by Bret in that one, as well as the Rumble match being better than the KOTR match too. Was a little pissed they didn't include the final four match but we all know why now so it's not bad at all.

Bret comes off in his interviews as being a big fan of the business and a huge mark for his favorite guys in the industry. You can really tell that Bret feels as if he has an astounding legacy and is just fucking BURSTING to show everybody and I can't say I disagree with the guy TBH. ONTO THE FOLEY REVIEW (not the documentary although amazing, I can't review documentaries).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Trips vs. Austin has no sense of structure or flow, It's just a mess but there's still a wildly fun ride to be had. ***1/4 for me, personally. BTW, Austin/Rock WM19 is leagues above their WM17 match, A ***** match for me, That storytelling is just perfect.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Don't remember much about NWO 01 except that match.

Austin/Angle or Austin/Benoit II is the WWE MOTY.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What would you guys rate HHH Vs HBK, at Summerslam 2002?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Don't remember it well, 4 stars max tho. Between 3 and a half and 4.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oliver-94 said:


> I noticed Austin/Rock has gone down in ratings for you. I think you rated it as a ***** match before.


I did lower it when I went through all the matches and re-rated them. It's position on the list didn't change much though. It was number 10 before and now it's number 13.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> What would you guys rate HHH Vs HBK, at Summerslam 2002?


Just watched it a few weeks ago, think it's absolutely fantastic. Structured perfectly & built up to a perfect finish + the memorable postmatch stuff. I actually gave it ***** and almost no one agrees with me and that's ok.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About the watch the HIAC w/ alternate commentary from Foley & Styles.

Excited.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just watched it a few weeks ago, think it's absolutely fantastic. Structured perfectly & built up to a perfect finish + the memorable postmatch stuff. I actually gave it ***** and almost no one agrees with me and that's ok.


I agree with you. Absolutely terrific match and the postmatch made it even more memorable. "Have you got no heart? Have you got no soul, You son of a bitch?!"


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Downloaded the Foley doc but the damned thing is in .avi format and therefore I can't play it without downloading some stupid codec shit. (or something like that, last I did it was 7 years ago so I've forgotten)



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Bret/Owen Cage Match is ***** for me. CLASSIC


*COREY*. WOODS (lame joke of mine every time I hear "Corey" btw)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> *Trips vs. Austin has no sense of structure or flow, It's just a mess but there's still a wildly fun ride to be had.* ***1/4 for me, personally. BTW, Austin/Rock WM19 is leagues above their WM17 match, A ***** match for me, That storytelling is just perfect.


That right there only adds to the fact that HHH/Austin accomplished its single goal better than almost every match in WWF/E history. I see it as a ***** classic since I never saw it needing any kind of structure for it to accomplish its _only_ goal - to blow-off one of the most intense feuds in WWE history. It was exactly everything it was supposed to be - an insane, out-of-control, stiff, super exciting and furiously intense and angered bloodbath. As a modern day fan, I see it as like the perfect mix of the intensity of the Mania 20 Triple Threat with the violence of HHH/Cactus, and the added touch being the charm of the personal aspect of, for e.g. HHH/Orton '09. It felt like both men legit hated each other and wanted to rip the other's testicles with a screwdriver, which was gold medal for the storytelling department right there.

Also, disagree with those saying Austin/Angle was MOTY - DQ finish ruined that (then almost granted) possibility.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't think a DQ finish hurts a match for me if the DQ isn't ridiculous or bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree with you, but Austin/Angle's was really anticlimatic imo. It wasn't utter nonsense or bad - it's actually one of best and most storyline-friendly DQ finishess ever. It just gave a major feeling of "That's it?" and anticlimax after all that flawless work Austin and Angle put in my mind.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Downloaded the Foley doc but the damned thing is in .avi format and therefore I can't play it without downloading some stupid codec shit. (or something like that, last I did it was 7 years ago so I've forgotten)


You should download VLC. You won't have an issue, again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Found a little gem from Nitro in 1997 that is worth a look.

*Ric Flair vs. Diamond Dallas Page (8/4/1997)*

First let me start off with mentioning how GOATworthy Bobby Heenan is at color commentary. Everything that comes out of that man's mouth is gold:lol. Now for the match.

Big fight feel here even though this is not the main event. Crowd is really hot here for both guys as the Woos echo and the Self High Fives are mimicked. Flair tries to approach DDP as if it was a wrestling match, but Page throws some punches and wants it to be wrestled his style. Like Flair has done millions of times in his illustrious career, he goes back to the corner to regroup and slow the pace down in his favor. We get our usual Flair tropes (chops, thumb to the eyes) here. *POWERBOMB!* Here comes Curt Hennig as we go to commercial break.

When we return from the break, we see Flair back in control, while DDP sells every bit of Flair's offense perfectly. Suddenly the chops turn into punches, which is a battle that Flair will not win. Flair does take advantage of DDP's overzealous nature to get back in control. Unfortunately for Flair, he gets overzealous as well. Page is back in control until Hennig acts as a distraction. *FIGURE FOUR*. Page puts on the Figure Four on Flair. Hennig comes to rescue Flair, but Page puts him in a Small Package while STILL keeping Flair in a Figure Four. Never thought such a spot was possible. Flair gets to the ropes and tries to make a run of his own, but Page continues his exciting offense. As Page signals for the Diamond Cutter, Hennig runs in with brass knuckles to end the match in DQ.

Post-match stuff is loads of fun and shows us once again why Page was one of the greatest babyfaces of the late 90s. He may not have been the most athletic or technically sound, but my goodness can that man tell a story.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rah said:


> You should download VLC. You won't have an issue, again.


Great idea. I've used Media Player Classic for years and never thought about VLC. Wont do no harm if I DL it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that the highest I have ever seen the hbk/hhh ss 02 match. 5star dam you loved. Idk as big of a hbk mark as I am I felt they tried to ahrd for it to be a epic match up and it affected it. The match will be good no need for all the extra stuff they did. Saying that I have it at the ****1/4 range.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The best HHH/HBK match is the RAW 2003 match bar none. They keep things simplistic and don't try to shove melodrama down our throats, something that both Hunter and Shawn are guilty for on many, many occasions.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Marv95 said:


> I agree with you. Absolutely terrific match and the postmatch made it even more memorable. "Have you got no heart? Have you got no soul, You son of a bitch?!"


I miss JR so much... 



Choke2Death said:


> *COREY*. WOODS (lame joke of mine every time I hear "Corey" btw)


I... don't get it. haha



redskins25 said:


> that the highest I have ever seen the hbk/hhh ss 02 match. 5star dam you loved. Idk as big of a hbk mark as I am I felt they tried to ahrd for it to be a epic match up and it affected it. The match will be good no need for all the extra stuff they did. Saying that I have it at the ****1/4 range.


Stop lying to yourself!  Nah I think they tried WAY too hard for the epicness in their HIAC match, but the Summerslam encounter was perfectly paced considering it was Shawn's first match back in years and he had to work off some of that ring rust per se. I honestly wasn't expecting to love it as much as I did when I last watched but they built up to a super emotional finish and there was so much variation throughout the match when it came to the brutality. Ladders, chairs, tables, sledgehammer, etc. + THAT BLOOD


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Angle/Austin SS 01 is top 10 match in company history, IMO. Fucking love it that much.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> The best HHH/HBK match is the RAW 2003 match bar none. They keep things simplistic and don't try to shove melodrama down our throats, something that both Hunter and Shawn are guilty for on many, many occasions.


That was actually the first HBK/HHH match I'd watched. And I thought "I don't get it, why does everyone say they're horrible together?" Turns out, apparently, that's one of their best.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

ATF said:


> That right there only adds to the fact that HHH/Austin accomplished its single goal better than almost every match in WWF/E history. I see it as a ***** classic since I never saw it needing any kind of structure for it to accomplish its _only_ goal - to blow-off one of the most intense feuds in WWE history. It was exactly everything it was supposed to be - an insane, out-of-control, stiff, super exciting and furiously intense and angered bloodbath. As a modern day fan, I see it as like the perfect mix of the intensity of the Mania 20 Triple Threat with the violence of HHH/Cactus, and the added touch being the charm of the personal aspect of, for e.g. HHH/Orton '09. It felt like both men legit hated each other and wanted to rip the other's testicles with a screwdriver, which was gold medal for the storytelling department right there.
> 
> Also, disagree with those saying Austin/Angle was MOTY - DQ finish ruined that (then almost granted) possibility.


Finally! Someone agrees that it's a ***** match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@Corey dont get me started with that HIAC that was bad, I mean the ss 02 one is a good match, it just felt like hhh/hbk were trying to make it "a OMG this is altime and classic "and soapera type of a match when they should have just gonna out there and performed. I personally like KOK said their raw 2003 match is their best encounter. It was simple and meaningful, great match


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I keep hearing so many great things about this Austin/Angle match and I've yet to watch it.

Also, I think HBK/HHH SS'02 is their best encounter. I guess those who prefer RAW '03 are those that prefer a more technical style. I loved the story their SS'02 match told. It has gone down from the first time I saw it though. I first it had it at ****1/2, watched it the other day bumped it down it about ****. There were some "WTF" moments such as Shawn no selling the back work doing kip ups and shit. But overall, it's one hell of a match.


----------



## JLawls91 (Dec 5, 2012)

Just watching For All of Mankind. I love it so far but it really does fuck me off when Sheamus, CM Punk or The Miz pop up and give their opinion. I don't give a fuck what they say it should really be someone involved in the feud, JR, Foley himself or Vince.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> I don't think a DQ finish hurts a match for me if the DQ isn't ridiculous or bad.


(Y)

Especially the same when it comes to the brilliance of Austin vs Angle from SummerSlam '01. Nothing else on PPV comes close to that match. Certain only other match I could say can rival it for MOTY was Austin vs Benoit. I'd still take the Angle match of it.



Marv95 said:


> Since it's April I'll rate an April ppv primarily Backlash. I'll go with 2006.
> 
> Theme song "Baby Hates Me" by Danko Jones (or Baby I hated this show).
> 
> ...


Disagreed with all of it. Backlash '06 is a great event.



Desecrated said:


> Spoiler: WarGames One!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mark:

WarGames from the 80's - early 90's were some of the best performed matches done in wrestling. Either near or at a perfect level each time.



Desecrated said:


> Could be worth a view (Anderson/Garvin), just before Garvin went off to the WWF and commited a slight career suicide? If you ever get back to watching it, through out a review if possible.
> 
> Coming from the year 2002 to save the tag division from the Rock n Roll Express, and only doing that. Should of just told Crockett Jr on how to avoid the mistakes he made which forced the sale to Turner. First impressions from the New Breed was just fast forward. Everything about them just made me laugh. Another 1987 JCP gimmick that is just hilariously bad is Lazor-Tron. Made better by teaming with Jimmy Valiant. Looking back over them, can see they were definately desperate for a slice of the kid market the WWF had locked in.


I may just have to pump one out now. 

Lazer-Tron, haha. That was Hector Guerrero iirc.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^^ FUCK I KNOW. Punk was fine, because Foley helped get him in to WWE so they have that connection AND Punk gives pretty good insight. But I simply don't give a shit where Miz or Sheamus were when Foley fell off the Cell in 1998. That said, their presence didn't ruin the doc.

Watching a couple of 2/3 Falls matches - Benoit/Jericho from Summerslam 2000 and Benoit/Angle from Judgment Day 2001. 

Finally, HHH/HBK at Summerslam 2002 is probably my favorite match between the two, but I need to watch the Raw 2003 match for the first time in a while.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit/Jericho from SummerSlam '00 is rapid. I dig it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I got Benoit/Jericho SS '00 at ****. So much in so little time. 

Did I just read that someone thought Backlash '06 sucked? :shocked:

HBK/God vs McMahons was a fun match and the ending was booked to perfection. McMahon knows how to tell a story dammit!

Also, the triple threat main event is like one of the company's best triple threats imo. Loved the ending. Last thing you'd expect given the names in this match. But you gotta remember, back then Cena was in "proving himself days"

Speaking of Cena's "proving" days, how lucky was this guy? His reign came at a time when guys like Trips, HBK, and Taker were at their peak in terms of veteran status. He was just lucky to get the rub from these guys. Also they didn't book other new main eventers like shit either such as Edge and Batista. Yeah, I know Edge was a transitional champ but he was still a believable threat nonetheless. 

That's why I always say Cena's title reign> Punk's. Not only was Cena's better booked (storylines, HEAT, main evented PPVs) but he got to put on matches with the likes of The Game and Shawn Michaels. And he had an equal rival in Edge. Punk never got the chance to main event (unless he was facing Cena) and many of his feuds lacked HEAT except for his feud with Chris Jericho. And he never had an equally as strong opponent. And no. His match with Daniel Bryan was nothing but a circle jerk for IWC fans. 

So yeah, I guess this was a two part post. Backlash '06 rules (what Backlash doesn't? '03 perhaps?) and Cena's title reign was much better than Punk's.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit - Summerslam 2000 - 2 out of 3 Falls*

A match I had never seen. Still having issues finding the full length match from the RR 2001, so decided to watch this one.

Pretty nice little match. Benoit and Jericho did about as much as you could in a 2/3 Falls in less than 15 minutes. Both guys made the other submit to even up the falls, then Benoit got the shady victory by reversing a rollup to an inside cradle and held the ropes. About ***3/4


*Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle - Judgment Day 2001 - 2 out of 3 Falls*

Thought I'd continue the trend of 2/3 falls and came across this one. Funny backstage segment with Kurt and Edge and Christian where Kurt asks for advice if the match goes to a third fall in the ladder match and Edge tells him "not to fall off". 

Nice story with Benoit stealing Angle's gold medals. Sum bitch even put them down his pants. Looking forward to two great in-ring workers go at it in this match where the first fall can only be won by pinfall, the second fall by submission, and the third fall is a ladder match.

Well damn, barely 90 seconds into this match, Angle goes for the flying headbutt, only to miss while Benoit capitalizes and hits the Angle Slam for the first fall. Submissions-only fall time. This fall was more of a match than the first one. Angle executes that belly-to-belly suplex about as good as anyone. He hits the first one, then Benoit counters the second into the crossface. JR had a great line in this match - "If these ropes were a woman, Angle would be going steady." In the interest of time (and my fingers), I'll cut the chase - after Benoit gets most of the submissions attempts in during this fall, Angle gets the Ankle lock in and wins the second fall.

This ladder match reminds me of the old school ladder match, where they just used one ladder. Well, these guys had two, but the first one looked too short. Some cool spots with the ladder, especially the snap suplex on from Angle to Benoit. That looked brutal. Then that nasty uppercut with the ladder. Benoit tried to trap Angle on the mat under the ladder, but Angle managed to flip the ladder and Benoit out of the ring. Benoit made Angle tap (though it didn't take) and Edge and Christian ran interference and gave Angle the chance to FLY UP THAT LADDER and retrieve his medals. 

Even with the interference at the end, that match is definitely ****1/4. Really enjoyed that.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

^http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...-rumble-2001_sport?search_algo=2#.UXRTLbWTiSo 

That seems to be it. Greatest singles ladder match, if you ask me.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> :mark:
> 
> WarGames from the 80's - early 90's were some of the best performed matches done in wrestling. Either near or at a perfect level each time.
> 
> ...


I haven't read much praise for the second WarGames at the GAB in 87, or the GAB88 one between Warriors/Midnights/Dr Death & Freebirds/Samoans. Turns out there are 13-14 others from between those matches. Hopefully they are up somewhere. Hopefully those two aired ones are great though, latter has a great line-up.

Yeah, it was Hector. Had a good chuckle when I saw it on Wikipedia. God, their undercard was terrible.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You guys wanna hear something crazy? I've probably seen every major HHH/HBK match (HIAC, Non-Sanctioned, Taboo Tuesday, 3SOH) bbut I've never seen the World Title match from RAW '03. Weird...



sharkboy22 said:


> I keep hearing so many great things about this Austin/Angle match and I've yet to watch it.
> 
> Also, I think HBK/HHH SS'02 is their best encounter. I guess those who prefer RAW '03 are those that prefer a more technical style. I loved the story their SS'02 match told. It has gone down from the first time I saw it though. I first it had it at ****1/2, watched it the other day bumped it down it about ****. *There were some "WTF" moments such as Shawn no selling the back work doing kip ups and shit*. But overall, it's one hell of a match.


I can understand the dispute there but I'm buying the whole 'adrenaline rush' for Shawn as he makes the triumphant comeback.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm currently watching the Foley doc and I really want to check out these Vader matches from WCW that I've never seen. They really look brutal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

REALLY cant fucking wait to get the War Games Set, the only ones i have seen i think is the one on the Horsemen DVD and the obvious Wargames 1992.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

greendayedgehead said:


> ^http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj...-rumble-2001_sport?search_algo=2#.UXRTLbWTiSo
> 
> That seems to be it. Greatest singles ladder match, if you ask me.


Greatest ladder match EVER, PERIOD.

I find it funny how both Benoit & Jericho competed in the best singles ladder match, best MITB ladder match, AND the best TLC match ever as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

GTFO Redruum, stick to the main WWE Section with all the other bullshit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I... don't get it. haha


Best to forget about it since it's not funny in the slightest. 



KingOfKings said:


> Greatest ladder match EVER, PERIOD.
> 
> I find it funny how both Benoit & Jericho competed in the best singles ladder match, best MITB ladder match, AND the best TLC match ever as well.


I don't think about it very often but they really had some amazing chemistry.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm watching Armageddon 2004. I just saw Kurt Angle wrestle Santa. Then I saw Ryback lose an arm wrestling match to Daniel Puder. Ryback also called himself a vanilla gorilla. Great laughs were had by me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> I'm watching Armageddon 2004. I just saw Kurt Angle wrestle Santa. Then I saw Ryback lose an arm wrestling match to Daniel Puder. Ryback also called himself a vanilla gorilla. Great laughs were had by me.


One of THE worst PPV's, saved by the Four Way match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You guys wanna hear something crazy? I've probably seen every major HHH/HBK match (HIAC, Non-Sanctioned, Taboo Tuesday, 3SOH) bbut I've never seen the World Title match from RAW '03. Weird...
> 
> 
> I can understand the dispute there but I'm buying the whole 'adrenaline rush' for Shawn as he makes the triumphant comeback.


I bought about three-quarters of it. It didn't bother me, bother me but still....there's no denying Shawn never once went back to selling the back after he got da adrenaline rush. Still a great match though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Armageddon 2004 was TRULY an awful show.

Fatal Four Way was nothing special TBH, just nice to see Eddie & Taker in the same ring together and that's all.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, Armageddon always sucks if you ask me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Have yet to see Armageddon 06 which I've heard good things about, but the show had two AWESOME matches in 2005.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So decided to watch the SD Chamber from 2012. Bryan vs. Barrett vs. Santino vs. Rhodes vs. Big Show vs. Khali, and it's gone quite a bit up. Had it at like *** before, but this viewing saw it improve quite a bit. What really kept it down was I remembered the beginning being really bad with Barrett/Show and the match itself not really picking up until Show tears Bryan's pod apart and starts beating on Bryan. However on this last viewing, I found the opening sequence between Barrett and Big Show to be actually be decent as opposed to bad which I thought before. Some nice psychology 101 by Barrett attacking the leg of Show, and Barrett gets some good offense in on Show. Show however eventually regains control and does the standard sending the guy over the rope onto the chamber steel floor. Love how Show waits by Bryan's pod as the countdown goes on and the randomizer light picks one of the pods to open. But yeah, Show and Bryan have some recent history. Bryan cashes in MITB on Show leading to Show having a 45 second title reign. And between verbally assaulting Show for accidentally running down AJ and escaping Show with the World Title at every turn, Show now wants to absolutely destroy Bryan, and the chamber's the best place to do it.

Rhodes comes in, hesitantly and selling fear for Show well. Rhodes also apparently had begun his verbal tirade on Show, embarassing him with previous Mania moments and all that. The three-way stuff between Barrett-Rhodes-Show is actually good. All exchanges on all accounts. Love Barrett repeatedly ramming Rhodes' into the chamber and Rhodes making a comeback of sorts before Santino steps in. Santino does his typical stuff, doing a split to dodge a clothesline and then the hip-toss. Santino is eventually stopped by Big Show. This is the part of the match where I think things take a dip in quality. Nothing special really happens until a double suplex by Barrett and Rhodes on Show onto the chamber steel floor. It's funny seeing Barrett and Rhodes trying to pull Show in and then Rhodes saying "fuck it" and attacking Barrett and landing a sick moonsault into a pretty nice near fall. Khali comes in, and thankfully he doesn't last long. He does his chops and double-handed chokeslams before getting speared by Big Show out of the match. "Thank you Big Show" chants... and can't say I wouldn't be chanting along with them if I was there. 

So now this is the point where the match goes from "pretty good" to "AWESOMEZ!" Show's impatience gets the better of him and he decides to rip the top of Bryan's pod open, jump in, and beat the hell out of Bryan. Loved Bryan's taunting of Show and then as soon as he realized Show was going to succeed in breaking in the pod, he begs to be let out. :lmao All great shit. Show has his way with Bryan until Barrett and Rhodes pummel Big Show with a big boot, three disaster kicks and an elbow drop from the second rope. Rhodes eliminates Show which plays well into the build for their Mania match, but while Rhodes is gloating Santino eliminates him. This sequence is awesome. Keeps Show looking strong and Rhodes' own arrogance ends up being his undoing. He gets some retribution on Santino of course by hitting him with his finisher. Good near-fall as well with Barrett pinning Santino. They handle Santino well in the match with near-falls as while he's put in this match, he's still a comedy character and you don't expect him to take the punishment others take. The Barrett pin happened a fair bit after the finisher was hit so it's all good. 

The match then gets amazing for the rest of the match. Barrett absolutely owns as the Alpha-Heel, dominating both Santino and Bryan. How he utilizes the chamber for both me is fantastic and only brings the match up. Barrett getting Santino's arms tied up in the chamber steel chains and then kneeing him in the face repeatedly was great, and following it up with the running big boot takes the cake. Barrett and Bryan have a great sequence as they usually do. Bryan can a great match out of most, but he seems to have something there with Barrett. In any event, the fight falls outside the ring and Barrett delivers an awesome power bomb right into the steel chains. Sick spot, and amazingly enough he tops that less than a minute later, choking Bryan with a pod door and then ramming the pod door right into Bryan's skull. Barrett looks like an absolute beast in this. Is showing a great amount of intensity and playing an awesome ruthless heel. Barrett goes back to Santino, pushing him into the steel chains and hammering him in the back a couple of times before Bryan comes in and knees Barrett in the face, followed by showing an aggressive streak of his own by ramming Barrett into the pods. Eventually with the help of Santino and a mis-calculation by Barrett, Bryan hits the diving headbutt and Santino makes the cover. Barrett's eliminated by Santino, which kinda sucks, but he looked really strong throughout so I can't complain.

So now we have the final two. Bryan and Santino. Bryan of course is overjoyed by this and knows he has it in the bag. Santino kicks out of the barrage of kicks and then the kick to the skull. Now normally it's not much of a near-fall, but it being Santino, it made for a great one and the crowd popped like crazy for the kick out. Santino is really over and does his comeback after a missed diving headbutt, with the crowd going ape-shit. Santino hits the cobra strike and the crowd loses it even more. They're going crazy and you can see it in the background. 1-2-BRYAN KICKS OUT. Crowd is dissappointed and while Santino can't believe it, Bryan maneuvers Santino in the Lebell-Lock. Santino puts up a fight and the crowd fights for him to get to the ropes, but it's not to be. Santino eventually succumbs to the pain and taps out. Awesome final sequence, made in big part by the crowd.

So overall the chamber is much better than I remember. Barrett gives the performance of his career thus far and making the chamber look as dangerous as WWE tries to build it up, Santino gives a great babyface performance with the crowd firmly behind and Bryan is great as always and... well... HE WINS! Rhodes was good as well, Khali's time was short and Show was decent as well, although the weakest performer in the match and who brings it down a bit. Great match and much better than I remember. Is it a top 5 chamber match of all-time? No, but it's a great one and deserves a watch, especially if you're a mark of Barrett, Santino, or Bryan. 

***3/4


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I already sat through a 17:12 match with Rey & RVD vs Dupree & Suzuki. I doubt it will get much worse. Suzuki is just awful in the ring.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hey guys watched some of the FOley doc yesterday and want to watch some of the matches since I don't know most. I saw the BL 04 one wiith randy yesterday and it was a ****3/4 top 10 match for me, LOVE it. Any rec on matches on the dvd to watch ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Foley match is Orton's best match for me bar none. 

When it comes to Mick's career in the WWE however, it probably comes in at number 3 or 4 behind MIND GAMES, Royal Rumble w/ Game, and MAYBE the cell match with Triple H that I'm going to watch tonight on Foley's DVD.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Watched the Sting match that was Submit or Surrender and that was great. Would throw at least **** at it. The ending is sick.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Nevermind I just watched the Dixie Dogfight and it got worse. Holy crap that was brutal to sit through. Miz was actually even worse on the mic then if you can believe it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> I already sat through a 17:12 match with Rey & RVD vs Dupree & Suzuki. I doubt it will get much worse. Suzuki is just awful in the ring.


:lmao

The tag title & US title scenes are so horrendous for Smackdown in 2004. Suzuki and Dupree has to be the most random pairing I've ever seen. They probably thought "these two are foreigners and we need tag teams, so let's pair 'em!" not unlike the R-Truth/Kofi Kingston team from last year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's a Rock & Sock vs HHH/Shane match on Foley's DVD from 1999 that's just AWFUL. Oh my dear goodness Foley looked fucking IMMOBILE out there. Why it was on the DVD in the first blows my fucking mind, guess they just really wanted a Rock N Sock match on there.

This Foley match listing is fine, but that's about it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WWE always puts shitty matches on these DVDs. If it's not repeats of matches that are on 60 other DVDs it's a bunch of sub-par crap.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I always thought Armageddon was a decent show in it's later years. Really liked '07 and '06, thought '08 was good and I don't remember much of '05 but I think I enjoyed it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

They should have put Rock n Sock/New Age Outlaws from Armageddon 99 on the set. That match was actually good. I have it at ***.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Do they have Mankind/Rock on the set with the GOAT pop?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Going to give Foleys DVD a watch later. I've heard nothing but good things.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's THREE Rock-Foley matches on the DVD, neither of which I'd call "good" at all.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I can't believe Dude Love/HHH isn't on it. Also where the fuck is Dude Love/Austin?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Would've been nice to see Foley vs Vader from Halloween Havoc. I've never seen it because the versions I've found have been very low quality


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Wait. Dude Love/Austin is not on it? That's one of the greatest matches of the Attitude Era.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've lost all faith in WWE's match listings. Although, I see they have Magnun TA/Tully Blanchard Steel Cage I-Quit lined up for an upcoming DVD.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What do you guys think Foley's best match is? I would either say Cactus Jack Vs Triple H RR 2000 or Mankind Vs Undertaker KOTR 1998.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Foley's best match is either vs. hbk at mind games or vs. triple h at Royal Rumble 2000.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just finished the Foley doc, and I'll echo the sentiments by everyone else that's seen it - it's really great. Awesome story, even though he covered a lot of it in his book it's always refreshing to hear others talk so fondly about Mick and his career. It's great to see that he seems extremely happy with how his career went and how he's living life now. Probably one of the best docs produced by WWE.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Saw some discussion on if people should watch Smackdown this week, ADR/Swagger and the main event tag were so fucking good. I can get behind this kind of Del Rio, and Swagger was a beast, **** in my book. Main event tag was awesome in its own right, so pumped for Sheamus/Henry now :mark: ***1/2, but I may enjoy this more then others


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

My top 10 Greatest matches in WWE history

1) Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart Wrestlemania 13 I quit Match
2) HBK vs. The Undertaker Bad Blood 1997 Hell In A Cell
3) HBK vs. The Undertaker Wrestlemania 25
4) HBK vs. HHH vs. Chris Benoit Wrestlemania 20
5) Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart Wrestlemania 10
6) Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle Royal Rumble 2003
7) TLC I Summerslam 2000 
8) HHH vs. Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000
9) Stone cold vs. The Rock Wrestlemania 17
10) Chris Jericho Vs. Chris Benoit (Ladder Match) - Royal Rumble 2001

Honorable mentions: Kurt Angle vs. Stone cold Summerslam 2001, Cena vs. Lesnar Extreme rules 2012, HBK vs. HHH Summerslam 2002, Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat WM 3, Triple H vs. Chris Jericho Fully Loaded 2000, HBK vs. Kurt angle WM 21, HBK vs. Razor Ramon WM 10, HBK vs. Mankind mindgames, Eddie Guerrero vs. Brock Lesnar No Way Out 2004, Randy Savage vs. Ultimate Warrior retirement match

It was really hard picking a top 10, there's a billion other matches that could have possibly made the cut but didn't. Would love to hear other people's GOAT match list


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

HWRP said:


> My top 10 Greatest matches in WWE history
> 
> 1) Stone Cold vs. Bret Hart Wrestlemania 13 I quit Match
> 2) HBK vs. The Undertaker Bad Blood 1997 Hell In A Cell
> ...


Wow! Fantastic List.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Thanks appreciate it !


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

HWRP said:


> Thanks appreciate it !


But HBK Vs Kurt Angle was at WM 21, not at WM 19.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Oh yeh fuck I keep calling it 19 for some reason haha, I'll edit it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just rewatched Punk vs Taker from WM. ★★★★ still. Don't see the 5 star talk at all, though. It's a hell of a watch, just not on that level for me.

Funny how the last time they feuded, both had long hair, now they're almost bald.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> The Foley match is Orton's best match for me bar none.
> 
> When it comes to Mick's career in the WWE however, it probably comes in at number 3 or 4 behind MIND GAMES, Royal Rumble w/ Game, and MAYBE *the cell match with Triple H that I'm going to watch tonight on Foley's DVD*.


Watched this about an hour ago myself funnily enough. Carnage.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I found a copy of the Cactus/Vader Havoc match that was watchable that I've had d/l'ed for almost a year now lol. Just watched and it was really good but the retarded rules and really bad ending hurt it. Fun watch and def. recommended. ***1/2. Meltzer gave it ****3/4 LOL


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Always found the HHH/Foley hell in a cell match to be overated. Have it at ***3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont think I explained my question well
Can anybody tell my good matches on the Foley doc to watch (except the BL 04) ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I can't believe Dude Love/HHH isn't on it. Also where the fuck is Dude Love/Austin?





Cookie Monster said:


> Wait. Dude Love/Austin is not on it? That's one of the greatest matches of the Attitude Era.





sharkboy22 said:


> I've lost all faith in WWE's match listings. Although, I see they have Magnun TA/Tully Blanchard Steel Cage I-Quit lined up for an upcoming DVD.


Austin vs Dude Love - Unforgiven '98: Released on *The Legacy of Stone Cold* three disc set.

Austin vs Dude Love - Over The Edge '98: Released on *Mick Foley's Greatest Hits & Misses* set.

That's why it isn't on his current edition. No need to be. I'm glad they cut the repeats.

Oh, and Magnum vs Tully was released back in 2008 already. *Starrcade: The Essential Collection*.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, Magnum vs. Tully is on the Bloodbath Cage Matches set too.

Almost finished with Unforgiven 2001... I haven't been very impressed. :$


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It isn't great, but it's fun. Only matches I disliked were Raven/Saturn & the WCW Tag Championship.

I told you not to expect much from Edge vs Christian :side:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Austin vs Dude Love - Unforgiven '98: Released on *The Legacy of Stone Cold* three disc set.
> 
> Austin vs Dude Love - Over The Edge '98: Released on *Mick Foley's Greatest Hits & Misses* set.
> 
> ...





Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, Magnum vs. Tully is on the Bloodbath Cage Matches set too.


Well, shows how mch I know about WWE DVD releases.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It pays to own a lot of their crap they pump out. Vital information.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Sheamus vs Big Show 
World title match
Hell in a cell 2012

Had to rewatch and see how it held up, I had it just under the four star mark after watching it live. First ten minutes have been basic big show shit, not particularly focused or calculating either. Fairly plodding pace since show controlled 95 percent of the first half. Sheamus ends up kicking out of some power moves even the chokeslam at one point. Some pretty stiff shots abound in this one. Things begin to pick up after show tosses him into Jrs lap. Second half of the match pulls a 180 as sheamus actually builds up to an awesome comeback by picking his spots, finishing sequence was pretty great with Show and fella Playing to the "who's move is better" story. Finishing stretch was near perfection with both guys taking brutal finishers and kicking out respectively. Fella goes for one bro too many and gets a side stepping KTFO punch thank you new world champion. Final verdict is this is solid shit with a so-so first half that makes up for it all in back end with hard hitting and decent counters... But the original rating stands as it falls short of hitting that **** threshold.

***3/4


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Tim Legend said:


> Sheamus vs Big Show
> World title match
> Hell in a cell 2012
> 
> ...


It was pretty good match, for their size.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Top five match from last year off the top of my head. Those two are brilliant.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ok forget my last question than, about to watch foley/hhh rr 00 for the first time in a while see how it holds up


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't see it not holding up. Foley brought Trips to some of his best work. Always.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Can't see it not holding up. Foley brought Trips to some of his best work. Always.


He's put many people, to their best work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If referring to Foley, certainly. Always stand by how he made Trips grow more than anyone else though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FOley/hunter rr 00 ****3/4
it actually got better than the previous watch. I may be in the minority but Orton/foley> hhh/foley. Not be that much but I think the backlash is better


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll stick with the Rumble match over the Backlash one. Can't go wrong no matter which you prefer.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWF Unforgiven 2001

**WWF Tag Team Championship 4-Way Elimination Match
*The Dudley Boyz (c) vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. Lance Storm & The Hurricane vs. Spike Dudley & Big Show - ** 3/4

Perry Saturn vs. Raven - *

*WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Edge (c) vs. Christian - ** 1/4

*WCW Tag Team Championship
*The Undertaker & Kane (c) vs. Kronik - * 1/2

*WWF Hardcore Championship*
Rob Van Dam (c) vs. Chris Jericho - *** 1/4

*WCW Championship - Handicap Match
*The Rock (c) vs. Booker T & Shane McMahon - N/R (how do I rate this? )

*WCW United States Championship
*Tajiri (c) vs. Rhyno - **

*WWF Championship
*Steve Austin (c) vs. Kurt Angle - ****


*Overall: 6.5/10*


- Opener was a lot of fun. Hurricane's gimmick, everyone taking turns on Spike, Big Show fuckin people up, & Bubba yanking Jeff around by the hair are all (Y). Finish was pretty flat though.

- Terri Runnel's nipples are ALWAYS hard... and I love it.  No one cared about the match, it was all about Terri bouncing around at ringside. :yum:

- Disappointed in Edge/Christian. Didn't have much chemistry & the finish sucked considering Edge probably should've been disqualified or the ref should've removed both chairs...

- I didn't think Kronik/BOD was quite as bad as some other folks have said, but it certainly wasn't good. The last couple minutes were a mess and Kronik was just fucking terrible at the time.

- Maybe my expectations for RVD/Y2J were too high, but it disappointed me. The first 5 or 10 minutes are loaded with botches and mishaps & they did A LOT of talking. Even when it did start to pick up & they broke out the big spots, they were all rehashed ones from Jericho's past Ladder matches, which sort of takes away from the shock value for a lot of them. I mean, there are some positives, it was an extremely stiff & physical matchup that I'm sure many have and will enjoy, but I don't think it was either man's best performance.

- The WCW Title match is a complete mess but it's hilariously fun. Corrupt Nick Patrick makes his presence known and the last like 5 minutes are all overbooked to hell, but hey, IT'S FUN. No clue how to rate it.

- Well obviously Tajiri/Rhyno wasn't gonna get enough time to develop into anything great but for what we got it was pretty fun. 

- The build to the Austin/Angle match is so awesome. It's WWF vs. Alliance, good vs. evil, Austin vs. Pittsburgh & the Angle family, etc. I was heavily pleased with the way the match was structured. Angle got his revenge immediately and beat the hell out of Austin for the first half with some great callbacks to things that happened at the Summerslam match & on previous RAWs (being thrown off the stage & the bumps on the concrete). They did lose just a little bit of steam in the middle but Austin's psychology was always on point with the neck work & while the finish was satisfying for the fans and the audience, I would've liked to seen it go on a little longer. I mean... the entire PPV was only 2 hours and 35 minutes anyway, but yeah. This is one of the types of matches where on its own it's gonna be really good but if you know the story going on and watch their previous match it'll make it even better. Check it out.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I gave the WCW Championship ***** snowflakes of fun.

Gobsmacked @ the thought on both the tag title matches. ALL THEY DID WAS PUNCH/KICK IN THE KRONIK MATCH. And yet there were still botches :lol

Main event is really good. Pretty great in fact. I won't lie when I say it starts to drag during a portion of the match for me. Only a 1/4* difference between us on the ol ratings system. No big whoop.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I wanted to know from a expert on here maybe you Hayley could answer this or anybody else. When yout ranking a match what really is the difference between a ****3/4 match and ****1/2 match. IS it that drastic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well I remember a... backbreaker in the Kronik match!  I get what you're sayin though, we'll just agree it wasn't very good.

Yeah main event starts to drag a tad bit when they start laying down for a while and they have that weird countout spot where the heel in the match is the one that beats the count, also LOL at Austin's "Angle Slam." Clearly just a back suplex.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I wanted to know from a expert on here maybe you Hayley could answer this or anybody else. When yout ranking a match what really is the difference between a ****3/4 match and ****1/2 match. IS it that drastic


****3/4 could literally mean there was one blatant flaw in a match that stopped someone from giving it a perfect ratings. **** 1/2 could be a multitude of things.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Just finished the Foley doc, and I'll echo the sentiments by everyone else that's seen it - it's really great. Awesome story, even though he covered a lot of it in his book it's always refreshing to hear others talk so fondly about Mick and his career. It's great to see that he seems extremely happy with how his career went and how he's living life now. Probably one of the best docs produced by WWE.


Never read his book (Attention span = 1 year old) so the doc was perfect for me.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Example of the difference between ***** and ****3/4. The only reason the HBK/Ramon Ladder match at Summer Slam didn't get ***** was because of the botched ending.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Which is why it surprises me when people give Punk/Cena ***** when the match is far from perfect from a ring sense, a few botches all round in that match.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Cookie Monster said:


> Which is why it surprises me when people give Punk/Cena ***** when the match is far from perfect from a ring sense, a few botches all round in that match.


Yeah, it's pretty overrated, it's ****1/2. Which is still extremely good.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Agreed I have Punk/Cena at ****1/2. I also just looked at my ratings and apparently I lowered that ladder match to ****1/4 after watching it again.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> Which is why it surprises me when people give Punk/Cena ***** when the match is far from perfect from a ring sense, a few botches all round in that match.


Just Punk/Cena marks trying to validate their in ring skills by calling one of their matches 5 stars even though the botches were blatant. 

Few have acknowledge the botches while still saying the match was "perfect" in the same sentence, quite humorous.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Which is why it surprises me when people give Punk/Cena ***** when the match is far from perfect from a ring sense, a few botches all round in that match.


I don't mind botches and sometimes botches even add to the match because it shows some realism. Also wrestling is far more about the story than the moves so as long as wrestlers aren't doing retarded things all the time I'm going to give wrestlers a pass for a botch or two. All that said, I gave Punk/Cena 5* and I'm not a fan of either guy...I just love drama and that's why I watch wrestling.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> I don't mind botches and sometimes botches even add to the match because it shows some realism. Also wrestling is far more about the story than the moves so as long as wrestlers aren't doing retarded things all the time I'm going to give wrestlers* a pass for a botch or two.* All that said, I gave Punk/Cena 5* and I'm not a fan of either guy...I just love drama and that's why I watch wrestling.


How do you feel about 3?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I don't care. They weren't detrimental to the match. If a match is 5 minutes long and has 3 botches then yeah it's shit but lol @ picking Cena/Punk apart because of botching a few spots. But that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. We obviously watch wrestling for different reasons.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't consider a five-star match to be a match that is entirely perfect because every match that has ever occurred has some sort of flaw. To me, a five-star match is one that is the cream of the crop. Punk/Cena was clearly a top tier match on the level of some of my other WWE five star matches.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I don't care about botches in matches as long as it doesn't screw up the flow and the structure of the match. Yeah, there were a few minor botches in Punk/Cena but they were still able to keep the flow and structure of the mach going while keeping the crowd hot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*For All Mankind : The Life and Career of Mick Foley (Disc Two)*

Jack Foley/Les Thornton vs The British Bulldogs (9/86 WWF) : *SQUASH*

Cactus Jack/Gary Young vs Scott Steiner/Billy Travis (AWA All Star Wrestling 10/88) : ** 1/2*

Cactus Jack Manson vs Brickhouse Brown ( Wild West Wrestling 4/89) : ** 1/2*

Cactus Jack vs Keith Hart (WCW Power Hour 1990) : ****

Submit or Surrender – Cactus Jack vs Sting (WCW Power Hour 11/91) : ******

Falls Count Anywhere – Cactus Jack vs Van Hammer (COTC XVIII 1/21/92) : *****

Barbed Wire Match – Cactus Jack vs The Sandman (ECW 5/95) : ***

Cactus Jack vs Shane Douglas (ECW Cyberslam 2/96) : *** 3/4*

Mankind vs Rocky Maivia (IYH; A Cold Day in Hell 5/11/97) : *** 3/4*

Mankind vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley (IYH Canadian Stampede ; 7/6/97) : **** 3/4*

The Bulldogs match (which is apparently Mick's second match EVER) happens to have an alternate commentary track where in Foley describes how bad Dynamite (ever the piece of shit) beats him up here. Just a squash and can be found on Foley's first set, the commentary track is a nice change of pace though.

SCOTT STEINER ON A WWE DVD. That's all I need to say about the second match on this set, as the match isn't really great at all but it features young Scotty going up against Mick Foley, so it's automatically worth a watch right off of the bat. Basic shit with Foley grabbing the win and some nice amateur sequences but nothing overly special.

Who the fuck is Brickhouse Brown you ask? Fuck if I know, but I have no idea why this is on the DVD set at all as it's just a basic match that happens to run at a time limit of TEN MINUTES (OUUUU). Another match that I see no reasoning for the placement, maybe just to get a wild west wrestling match on DVD, I don't know? Nice to see Foley work a normal match though, or interesting to say the least.

The Keith Hart match is on this DVD as Foley explains, because it's essentially Foley squashing the poor kid and actually being on the offensive end for a majority of a match. I liked this one quite a bit as Foley just kicks the absolute CRAP out of the young guy and gives him the beating of a lifetime. Weird to see FOLEY squash somebody but nevertheless it's worth a watch as a pretty damn good squash match and a deranged Cactus Jack masterpiece.

The Submit or Surrender match is more or less what I was expecting it to be ; a compelling babyface performance by Sting and a maniacal dissection by the master Cactus Jack. What really stood out in this one for me amongst all of the violence and carnage was Sting's babyface WAR CRY at the end of the match when being asked to submit, that was fucking awesome and you can really tell that Cena took a ton of babyface qualities from the stinger. Foley's heel performance is just dastardly as the sadistic fuck who is going to destroy and DISFIGURE YOUR HERO KIDS. This is a must watch match for most people out there, check it out right now.

VAN HAMMER ON A WWE DVD RELEASE. This was a very short (7 minute-ish) but brutal back and forth contest that really showed how talented Foley was in his WCW days with the ability to carry somebody as green as Van Hammer to an awesome no holds barred match at the clash. FUN would be the best word to describe this one as it's just vintage Foley going out there and working his ass off to produce a great contest.

Fuck the Sandman match and fuck The Sandman in general, garbage wrestling 101 with no rhyme or reasoning. These matches are alot like a ton of the ECW garbage style matches ; they're a fun watch and completely full of violence, but they're never ever good. Foley takes some ridiculous bumps in this one though, that's for fucking sure. The Shane Douglas match on the other hand? It's good storytelling with smatterings of garbage wrestling thrown in throughout with reasoning as to why it's happening as Cactus takes one hell of a beating here. Alternate commentary obviously adds alot to this match as well as we get a sense on what Foley was trying to accomplish out there, overall the match was really good as I'm not a fan of Douglas at all.

The Rocky Maivia match was good, but a complete Foley carryjob. Rocky was trying to bring some sense of intensity here but just couldn't match up with the veteran Foley that well, ultimately resulting in this good but not great affair. Rock's athleticism vs Foley's insanity is always a fun mixture to watch though as this was the first PPV style encounter between the two. They left a ton to be desired out there but for a young inexperienced Rocky Maivia I thought it was pretty damn good for what it was, definitely an impressive performance for the MICKER.

LOVE the Canadian Stampede match between Hunter & Foley. I've gone down on it a little bit due to rating matches a little harsher on this go around, but you can really tell by watching this match how badly Mick was putting over a young Game here in his first really LEGIT feud. The legwork here by Hunter was really well orchestrated as was how Chyna played a role in the match with callbacks to the awesome and perhaps even superior to this match KOTR 1997 encounter (well, yeah that match is a little better). I don't know what it is man, but Foley and Hunter have some off the charts chemistry that's probably top 5 in WWF/WWE history for me in the tier with Punk/Cena that's just behind HBK/Taker & Bret/Austin. This match is remembered for the brawling post match, but it's the shit between the bells that makes this an almost must watch contest, still recommended though.

Cut out a few of the bad matches and add in another GREAT match and this disc gets an 8 from me quite easily, however the HHH & Sting matches (with a dash of Van Hammer) carries this disc to be a pretty great one that you should check out for the most part as even some of the not fantastic matches have some alternate commentaries that are a great listen. + the top three matches on the disc are all new to comps, how can you go wrong with this?

*Overall Disc Rating : 7.25/10*



​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Did you see the alternate names that WWF had for Foley? I've just gone blank but there were certainly some doozies. Nice read on the matches, BTW. 

On another note, I finally watched Angle/Taker from NWO 2006. All I can say is: This should have happened at Mania. I get they were leading to Mysterio winning the title, but damn this match was brilliant, and the finish actually left things open for a rematch. Oh well, match is ****1/2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I wanted to know from a expert on here maybe you Hayley could answer this or anybody else. When yout ranking a match what really is the difference between a ****3/4 match and ****1/2 match. IS it that drastic


Not really drastic at all. More of that personal choice of what you see done and decide to slap next to the match. It isn't anything I take too seriously.

Punk vs Cena is five stars for me. Moves not being executed perfectly has never been anything I cared to note for in the match. Punk vs Cena went out to work a 30+ minute match with immense drama. That's what they produced. The goal that was set out that night was achieved and then some. That's what I look for in matches. It's why I can think so highly of certain gimmick matches. When the aspect of each is captured so, so well. That's where the love comes from.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Mankind vs HBK - Mind Games: Almost a 30 minute match but it felt like I watched it for 10 minutes. Never a dull moment and that's not to say selling wasn't good because it was very good. Hate the finish and that's my only complaint about the match. ****3/4.

Mankind vs Rock - RAW 1/4/99: Mankind wins the title for the first time but it's overshadowed on the forums nowadays as it's Austin's biggest pop. The match is an awesome 5 minute brawl outside the ring to start and then a couple finishers over the next 5 minutes that are kicked out of and then the finish. Good match, ***1/2.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Finished Armageddon 2004 and what an awful event. The main event being ***1/2 saved it from possibly being the worst event I have ever seen. For all of the people that think the current product sucks they should watch events like...
Armageddon 2004
Taboo Tuesday 2004
Judgment Day 2007
Unforgiven 2007
The Great American Bash 2006 

Then realize how good you have it. The Shield match at Mania is better then any match on these events besides that fatal four way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield match from WM > Four way from Armageddon. It isn't anything too good outside of Undertaker vs Eddie interactions.

I have no contempt for Taboo Tuesday, Judgment Day '07, or GAB '06. Yeah, some matches on those shows stink. That's more common place to have the shows split the difference than anything. I could have named weaker events than those. Vengeance '07 comes to mind quickly. As does Cyber Sunday '06.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Most PPVs from 1999 are much, much worse.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Debatable. Lots who enjoy those is purely on the character standpoint much more than the straight up wrestling aspect. Not everyone has to have that to enjoy a show. Character is what made the Attitude Era have its hook, after all.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hayley's on point as always, It really comes down to which you like better, storylines and angles or wrestling and in-ring performance. Anyways, I've been wanting to get into Bam Bam Bigelow's work, Does anyone have some good suggestions? The KOTR Bret Hart match, I'm thinking to start off.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Finished Armageddon 2004 and what an awful event. The main event being ***1/2 saved it from possibly being the worst event I have ever seen. For all of the people that think the current product sucks they should watch events like...
> Armageddon 2004
> *Taboo Tuesday 2004*
> Judgment Day 2007
> ...


I don't think too much of GAB '06, not bad but not good either imo. Armageddon '04 is Godawful yeah, JD and UF '07 aren't good at all either, but I seriously disagree that TT '04 sucked. That's honestly one of the most underrated PPV's in WWE history. 

I mean, you had a **** classic in Orton/Flair, a couple of ***1/2+ in HHH/HBK, Jericho/Shelton, Benoit & Edge/La Resistance and Kane/Snitsky, hot chicks in lingerie (EYECANDY), and an overall just very fun event.

Swap it with CS '06 and you're closer to spot on.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Review moved


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Orton/Flair is a 4 star classic? Wut?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> Hayley's on point as always, It really comes down to which you like better, storylines and angles or wrestling and in-ring performance. Anyways, I've been wanting to get into Bam Bam Bigelow's work, Does anyone have some good suggestions? The KOTR Bret Hart match, I'm thinking to start off.


YES, start there. Basically watch any of his matches with Bret from '93-'94. Also the Tag Title match from Royal Rumble '95 I wanna say. Bam Bam & Tatanka vs. 123 Kid & Bob Holly. Awesome stuff.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks Jack, Will start off with those. BTW, Orton/Flair is a good match but definitely not a classic, However i do have Trips/Flair at ****3/4, That match is awesome.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It is **** to me, really enjoyed the hell out of it. My opinion only.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Jack Swagger vs Christian ECW 2/24/09 - ****1/2 

Am I the only one that has this match rated so highly?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HWRP said:


> Jack Swagger vs Christian ECW 2/24/09 - ****1/2
> 
> Am I the only one that has this match rated so highly?


The match is often hailed as MOTY 2009 for a lot of people round here. Cal pimps the shit out of it every time it gets brought up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its without a doubt the greatest match with the ECW initials attached to it imo. Not much comes close to it. 2nd best match of 09 behind Undertaker/HBK. One of my personal favourite matches ever. Gets better on every watch too. Pretty sure if I watch it 10 more times I'll have it at 5 stars .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Taker/HBK WM 25= GOAT WM match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

That happened a year later.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> That happened a year later.


Too right.

Michaels/Taker @ WM 26 is the greatest WM match ever and for me the greatest match ever.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Goddamn, just watched Foley/Flair for the first time since it aired. Flair's tack bump has got to be the nastiest I have ever seen. Just sick.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Random Tully Blanchard ratingz from TV tapings in '87;

vs Robert Gibson sometime May 1987 ***1/2
vs Dusty Rhodes (clipped in the middle) 06 13 87 ****
vs Ricky Morton No DQ sometime mid-late 1987 ****1/4

Very potentially the '87 worker of the year. Yet to dip into his work up to Starrcade.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Swagger vs Christian is a fantastic match. You have Christian selling the shoulder injury he has with excellence and Jack Swagger really taking a long portion of the match systematically destroying the shoulder even further while Christian keeps fighting back into it. The shoulder breakers into the power-slam were really fucking brutal, and I always enjoy when two individuals work a different style of match and incorporate the WWE style into it as this match had a ton of great false finishes also. Christian was the man in this match despite Swagger being really on point with his offense and intensity, Christian really sold you that he was pulling everything out of the bag in order to win the Championship. 

PROBABLY the second best match of 2009. MAYBE. ***** 1/4 - **** 1/2* ish material we have here.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

my review on Christian/Swagger that I wrote about two months ago;



Spoiler: REVIEW



*Christian vs. Jack Swagger - ECW (2/24/09)*

Part One
Part Two

This is the first time I've seen this highly-regarded match - A match which I've seen/heard some people put up there with Taker/Shawn as 2009 WWE MOTY. My thoughts on that opinion? Absolutely correct. Without me knowing the whole backstory to the match and how it was built up, the story of the match its self was self explanatory - The young, brash, amateur-styled powerhouse against the grizzled, never-say-die veteran looking to get his hands on the title. Just everything about this match seemed legit. From the quality punches thrown by Christian, to the false comebacks, to the unique yet effective offense from Swags; it all just fits. Even the little things just add up t make this one glorious match, for example, when Christian nails the missile dropkick and diving headbutts, he clutches his arm after landing on it. Now whether he did that for that reason (he landed on it) or just because he was selling the arm in general, it doesn't matter, it just rocks.

Something that Christian is renowned for is his ability to time his comebacks to perfection, and although the transition spots were pretty basic and somewhat common or overused, that didn't affect anything due to how well they were timed. Also, every transition spot where the momentum would swing to Swagger, Jack would play up the "opportunistic rookie prodigy" aspect of his character and would be relentless in taking advantage. I adore the spot where Christian flips out of the back body suplex, ducks the wild back forearm then ducks the clothesline on the way back, playing up on the transition spot from earlier on in the match, as well as playing on Christian's experience edge that is always evident. 

And to top all of this off, the finishing stretch (last two minutes or so) absolutely rules the world. The tempo increases, the desperation between both men becomes more and more evident as it progresses and neither man looked weak because of it. So not only is the story fantastic, but the booking of the match and how it plays out is marvelous as well.

Unreal. I've recently completely gone off the idea of STARZ but I think this review is more than enough for you to get my opinion on this match.



I'm a fan.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

GOATAntics said:


> Hayley's on point as always, It really comes down to which you like better, storylines and angles or wrestling and in-ring performance. Anyways, I've been wanting to get into Bam Bam Bigelow's work, Does anyone have some good suggestions? The KOTR Bret Hart match, I'm thinking to start off.


There's a lot of good Bam Bam stuff from Japan. He worked with all the big names over there (Kobashi, Muta, Kawada) and even teamed with (and wrestled) VADER. There's also a real good tag with him and Davey Boy against the Miracle Violence Connection. 

If Japanese wrestling isn't your thing, his matches with Taz in ECW are pretty good and highly enjoyable (anything really from his ECW run is enjoyable), his hardcore matches in WCW are enjoyable, anything against Bret in WWE obviously. There's an assortment of matches from WWE against the likes of Razor, Davey Boy, and Taker that I'm sure are at least good, but never got to watching yet. 

Oh, and there's this Bam Bam vs. MYSTERIO match from WCW I've been meaning to watch for ages now. I can't imagine that being anything short of super.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Christian/Swagger:
2/24 - ****1/4
Backlash - ****
JD - **3/4

Best WWECW feud, easily. Matt/Swagger for honorable mention, I'm a fan of their 1/13/09 and Rumble matches.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

So I was playing some wwe '13 and was at a PPV and I decided to book Christian against the WHC Dolph Ziggler. While I was playing the match I was thinkign to myself "A match between those two must be awesome. I wonder if that ever happend." 
I quickly went to my pc and googled it and indeed they had a match on superstars. Of course I had to check that one out right away. ...

*CHRISTIAN vs DOLPH ZIGGLER* (superstars 5/20/10)

I already lol'ed as the commentators where talking about how Christian and Edge had some kind of 5 star match on RAW this week.
Anyway tha match starts with some nice technical wrestling. The crowd is chanting something I'm not sure if they chant "let's go zig zag" or let's go christian" lol.
Then Ziggler gets the upper hand and beats down Christian. Big heat from the crowd,
Christian comes back with a nice dropkick.
Some outside action and their back in the ring. You gotta love Christian's signature bitchslap.
Then Ziggler throws Christian out of the ring BIG TIME huge bump.
After the commercial Ziggler is in control.
Couple of minutes later Christian is able to hit his signature kick in the corner and he's getting some big time momentum. MISSILE DROPKICK! 1. 2. ... oh no Ziggler kicked out.
Christian tries a crossbody but Ziggler turns that into an pin himself but christian is able to kick out.
Ziggler has Christian in the sleeperhold now and Striker is really good a selling that as a big time submission move. But christian gets out rather fast. 
After a bit more back and forth action Christian hits the Killswitch which was a bit anti-climatic.

I would give the match 3 solid stars. Nothing overly special but it was a nice little 8 minutes match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm probably the only one who has HBK/Taker WM25 over WM26 then (only by a _small_ margin though ) :$

Oh, and Sharkboy lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, Christian-Swagger probably gets a HIGH ***** 1/4* for me and number two in my 2009 MOTY rankings, ahead of Jericho-Mysterio from the Bash & the DX/CENA triple threat at the Survivor Series. 

Making my way through some Cena tags now, not many left in all honesty .


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

zep81 said:


> I'm probably the only one who has HBK/Taker WM25 over WM26 then (only by a _small_ margin though )


I'm going to take a wild guess and say more WWE fans love WM25 over WM26 unless you are just talking about the regulars in this thread.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I'm probably the only one who has HBK/Taker WM25 over WM26 then (only by a _small_ margin though ) :$
> 
> Oh, and Sharkboy lol.


Make it three.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

25 > 26 for me. I don't know why but 26 just didn't click for me on the last 2 watches. 25, however, is just :mark: and ******* easy.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I think 25 is better because in 26, I don't think HBK did everything he could to beat Taker. The desperation leading up to it did not manifest itself the way I thought.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Make it 1 more here. As a matter of fact, I am perhaps the only one in the planet who loved Taker/HHH III more than Taker/HBK II.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

25 is definitely better.

They couldn't top what they had previously in my view. I think 26 gets rated higher by some just because of the poor emotion of it being HBK's last match etc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/281500/WWE-Raw-Running-With-a-Limited-Roster-Tonight.htm

Expect the Undertaker match to actually happen tonight and for it to run quite a while, they need to kill time somehow I would imagine. Guessing this show tonight is going to be very wrestling based so everybody should check it out.

There's a million different storytelling based reasons as to why I'd have XXVI > XXV. XXV is one of the greatest WWF/WWE matches ever don't get me wrong, but the only thing it has over the XXVI match are the near falls being more believable and that it's more of an "adrenaline rush" kind of match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Patrick Bateman said:


> *CHRISTIAN vs DOLPH ZIGGLER* (superstars 5/20/10)
> 
> I already lol'ed as the commentators where talking about how Christian and Edge had some kind of 5 star match on RAW this week.
> Anyway tha match starts with some nice technical wrestling. The crowd is chanting something I'm not sure if they chant "let's go zig zag" or let's go christian" lol.
> ...


Great review, everyone rep this dude for doing a fine ass job or else, i'll cut you like a fish.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

-Mystery- said:


> There's a lot of good Bam Bam stuff from Japan. He worked with all the big names over there (Kobashi, Muta, Kawada) and even teamed with (and wrestled) VADER. There's also a real good tag with him and Davey Boy against the Miracle Violence Connection.
> 
> If Japanese wrestling isn't your thing, his matches with Taz in ECW are pretty good and highly enjoyable (anything really from his ECW run is enjoyable), his hardcore matches in WCW are enjoyable, anything against Bret in WWE obviously. There's an assortment of matches from WWE against the likes of Razor, Davey Boy, and Taker that I'm sure are at least good, but never got to watching yet.
> 
> Oh, and there's this Bam Bam vs. MYSTERIO match from WCW I've been meaning to watch for ages now. I can't imagine that being anything short of super.


Bam Bam Ve Rey in WCW is pretty fucking sweeeet. As is Rey Vs Norton from the week after. Rey was on his "giant killer" run at the time I think. Anyway, Bam Bam. The hardcore match with HAK at... I wanna say Spring Stampede 99 is like, incredible. Best thing HAK was ever involved in. Oh and Bam Bam Vs 123 Kid leading up to the RR 95 tag I believe it is, is pretty sweet too.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Great review, everyone rep this dude for doing a fine ass job or else, i'll cut you like a fish.


Thank you. You believed in me and that helped me big time to create this review. :draper


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Bam Bam Ve Rey in WCW is pretty fucking sweeeet. As is Rey Vs Norton from the week after. Rey was on his "giant killer" run at the time I think. Anyway, Bam Bam. The hardcore match with HAK at... I wanna say Spring Stampede 99 is like, incredible. Best thing HAK was ever involved in. Oh and Bam Bam Vs 123 Kid leading up to the RR 95 tag I believe it is, is pretty sweet too.


I haven't seen nearly enough BAM BAM matches. Definitely nothing from WCW. Only vaguely familiar with his 90s WWE stuff.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Patrick Bateman said:


> Thank you. You believed in me and that helped me big time to create this review. :draper


Believe in yourself and you can accomplish *ANYTHING*.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I'll take the Shawn/Taker rematch, but only slightly. Shawn's throat slash in the rematch was :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Gonna take a break from my 2006 PPV stuff for a while. Man, those London/Kendrick tag matches are so much freaking fun. It's so sad to see what tag wrestling has become nowadays. I was watching London/Kendrick vs Kash/Noble from GAB and so many things they did that added so much more to the story. Things that you don't see nowadays in tag wrestling. Like...umm..... actually trying to break the 3 count. And..umm..knocking the guy's partner off the rope when he's going in for a hot dag. 

Nowadays, it's just the basic divide the ring in half bullshit. Don't get me wrong, it's one of the best damn psychologies to use in a tag match but damn...over exposure much? You can still divide the ring and beatdown a guy and still do things like distracting the ref, running in etc.

Anyway, all this Superstars talk makes me wanna watch some. Barretta/Hawkins series seems like a good choice. Haven't seen those matches since they were first shown.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

1-2-3 Kid & Bob "Spark Plugg" Holly vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka (w/Ted DiBiase) - *(***)*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Need to go back and watch 25 again. I watched 26 very recently and stayed on the edge of my seat. That Tombstone on the outside looked nasty. 

Trips/Taker at 28 and Shawn/Taker at 26 are two of the most emotional things I've ever sat through.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Bam Bam Bigelow is the fucking man let me say that first...

Secondly anyone seeking out his work out is cool in my book...

Anyway most of Bam Bam's programs in ecw are worth checking out not just the tazz matches...

His stuff against RVD, Douglas, even spike Dudley are all pretty great. 

I know original ecw matches aren't everyones cup of java but I think if your looking for Bigelow that should be one of the first places to go...

BAM BAM


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, HBK/Flair has them all beat imo.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

*HBK vs. Kurt Angle Wrestlemania 21*

What a match! These two men told a great story from start to finish and displayed some amazing wrestling counters, sequences and reversals in the process. I love how the first third of the match is mainly chain wrestling and focusing on keeping things technical, where as the second third is more flashy with some high flying, brawling, and big moves with the the last 10 minutes being fucking awesome and full of finishers and near falls. This match had literally everything, technical wrestling, brawling, high flying, brutal spots and a finisher fest which was done brilliantly and had me on the edge of my seat with several near falls. I love how at the start of the match HBK is trying to beat angle at his own game and how both of them are continuously trying to prove that they can do what the other can but better. The story was based around two icons going at it for nearly 30 exhilarating minutes to prove who the better pure wrestler was and they went tooth and nail till angle eventually found an opening and capitalized. HBK was surprising angle with his pure wrestling abilities as he out wrestled him for a good 5-10 minutes before angle got flat out frustrated and just decided to dump hbk with an angle slam against the steel post. You had angle doing high flying moves trying to return the favor to HBK. Kurt hit everything but the kitchen sink at shawn and was just flat out frustrated and this was expressed brilliantly by an exhausted angle talking trash in shawn's face, but low and behold hbk pushes angle a few steps back and spikes him with a huge sweet chin music! Both men were exhausted and weren't going to give up, hbk was too tired and made a slow cover only getting a long 2 count! I've seen people bash on shawn's selling in this match but I honestly thought it was simply superb, the way he sold his back and looked completely out of it and exhausted as fuck compelled me even more into this classic. Shawn got up arching his back barely hobbling onto his feet but angle saw a slight opening grabbing the ankle and locking in a painful ankle lock! Shawn tried his best to roll out of it but angle used his submission wrestling prouesse to keep it locked in before grapevining hbk's leg and sinking the submission in even tighter! JR and Jerry voiced that hbk would never want to give up on the grandest stage of them all in front of his fans but angle refused to let go off the ankle eventually almost breaking it as shawn had no option but to tap! Shawn might have out wrestled kurt for the first third of the match but it was Angle that eventually came to show how effective his submission wrestling was. The pace of the match was built up perfectly with the last 10 minutes having so many close false finishes and finisher reversals which had the crowd going fucking nuts. The story telling was 1A, the drama was there, the wrestling was there, the crowd was hot, the near falls were there, the psychology was there with angle working on Michael's well known injured back and ankle with hbk selling it extremely well in return. I could go on and on about this match honestly. In my opinion this is one of the WWE's top 10 matches of all time, it surpassed all expectation and is going to go down as an all time classic regardless of the negative things some people have to say about this match.

****** (TOP 10 GOAT WWE/F Match Of All Time)*

What do you guys think of this match? Would also appreciate some feedback on my review  thanks


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree, that HBK/Angle is tremendous. I think I'd have it about ****1/2. Kurt holding Shawn by the head, and screaming, "Tap! Out!" then Shawn reaching down and nailing SCM is a great moment for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The 2009/2010 DX shit with Hornswoggle might legitimately be the most depressing period of Triple H's career to me in all honesty. About to watch the MSG triple threat tag match now, remember it being excellent the last time I watched it.

How come more people aren't jizzing over The Undertaker potentially wrestling tonight on RAW? I'm staying away from spoilers so everybody fuck off with them for tonight .


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Because he probably won't wrestler. :ambrose2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Staying away from spoilers myself. I hate those damn things.

I hardly doubt Hell No/Taker vs Shield is taking place tonight. Most likely it will happen at Extreme Rules.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Good Lord. Watching DX vs McMahons from Summerslam '06 is like watching an Attitude Era PPV. So many damn run ins lol. Fun match nonetheless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Random Tully Blanchard ratingz from TV tapings in '87;
> 
> vs Robert Gibson sometime May 1987 ***1/2
> vs Dusty Rhodes (clipped in the middle) 06 13 87 ****
> ...


TULLY.

Bossy to see him work vs both RnR Express members in singles. We all know Morton seemed to shine better in that area over Gibson, yet it is always a treat to see both get the chance to show what they had to offer in the one on one game.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Need to go back and watch 25 again. I watched 26 very recently and stayed on the edge of my seat. That Tombstone on the outside looked nasty.
> 
> Trips/Taker at 28 and Shawn/Taker at 26 are two of the most emotional things I've ever sat through.


I think the final tombstone at WM26 is so fucking perfect, maybe his best ever. 

Same goes for that last ride at WM25 - Fucking EPIC


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I'm probably the only one who has HBK/Taker WM25 over WM26 then (only by a _small_ margin though ) :$


I don't even think their WM26 match is good and I think their 25 match is best in wwf/e history.



-Mystery- said:


> I'll take the Shawn/Taker rematch, but only slightly. Shawn's throat slash in the rematch was corny as fuck


fyp to reflect my thoughts.

Bam Bam winning the ECW title from Douglas is incredible from beginning to end.

Bam Bam vs Shane Douglas


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> TULLY.
> 
> Bossy to see him work vs both RnR Express members in singles. We all know Morton seemed to shine better in that area over Gibson, yet it is always a treat to see both get the chance to show what they had to offer in the one on one game.


For sure. Morton was an incredible babyface, knew what to do and did it with perfection. Gibson was great, did a lot of things, and did them well. It's a pity he got outshined. Tully's matches with both of them were very different, TV title match & it being something to further the story with Dusty, up against a more intense match with some hatred. Gibson wouldn't of got near the emotion and little subtleties that Morton did, but I reckon he could of put in a match worthy of a classic tag in the same stipulations. Might watch the Morton match again, was an incredible bout. Got to recommend it for everyone. (just type Tully on XWT-C, the Dusty match below is so fucking worth it, also)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*For All Mankind : The Life And Career Of Mick Foley (Disc Three)*

Dude Love vs Rocky Maivia (RAW 11/17/97) : ** 3/4
*
Hell in a Cell - Mankind vs The Undertaker (KOTR 1998) : ***** 1/4*

WWE Tag Team Championship – Mankind/Kane vs The New Age Outlaws (RAW 7/13/98) : ** ¾*

WWE Championship – Mankind vs The Rock© (IYH Rock Bottom 12/13/98) : *** 1/4*

WWE Tag Team Championship – Mankind/Rock vs Triple H/Shane McMahon (SD 9/2/99) : *1/2 **

Mankind vs Al Snow (SD 12/16/99) : ****

WWE Championship (Hell in a Cell) - Cactus Jack vs Triple H (No Way Out 2/27/00) : ***** 1/2*

What the hell is that Rocky Maivia match doing on this set, it's really just a normal TV match that just so happens to involve Stone Cold at the end of it. I have no idea as to why it was included as there were already a number of Rock matches on here, but it's included nonetheless. Just your standard TV match here from both guys, nothing bad but nothing really good, very very standard.

The Hell in a Cell match vs The Undertaker has seemingly been on every single set in existence, but this time it comes with an alternate commentary track on it recorded by Joey Styles and Foley himself that makes it quite a viewing experience. I'd cite this alternate commentary as being a huge selling point for the DVD as we finally get to hear Foley talk over his mst infamous match and walk us through it as it's going on. I'm not going to talk about the match itself because if the first time you've seen it is on this DVD then you probably haven't been watching wrestling very long. This alternate commentary track is a huge reason to buy the DVD, just a fantastic viewing experience that adds to one of the most brutal matches and valiant efforts in WWE history.

The NAO tag is another standard TV match that just so happens to include a big time moment at the end of the match with Foley and Kane winning the tag belts together. There's nothing special about the match as it features a gazillion run ins from the likes of DX and such, but it's clear that it was added here for the moment of Foley winning the tag titles so I'm pretty fine with it being included I guess, but it could have been a much better match.

I actually like the Rock Bottom match between Rock and Mankind as they have this intensity that they both bring out of each other that very few chemistries seem to have, however it suffers quite a bit from the complete Russo style booking that's surrounding it. The ending is complete nonsense, but I can understand this being an addition to the DVD as it's perhaps the only Foley/Rock encounter (that's worth a damn) that hasn't been already released on a comp set. Watch it once but never watch it again unless you're a fan of Russo's style of booking and matches.

I understand that they wanted to get a Rock N' Sock match on here but GOD DAMN was that match horrible. Foley can barely move in the match and is seemingly crippled or immobile, while Rock and Shane seem kind of lost in there. It is only because of THE GAME (of course) that this match isn't a dud on every single level, as The Game takes what should be a basic contest and inflicts his awesome heel control-ness all over Rock and Foley. Avoid this match at all costs as it's clearly the worst match on the DVD and has no business being released over the likes of Foley-Vader.

The Al Snow match is a bunch of FUN. You won't be getting Foley-Sting or Foley-HHH with this match, but you will be seeing two guys beating the shit out of each other and you'll have alot of fun with it. I can see why this match is on the DVD as Al and Mick are both really good friends, and I think it definitely deserves it's place on this one due to just how fun it actually is, worth a watch for sure.

Now we move on to the last match on the DVD and the BEST match on the DVD ; Hell in a Cell vs The Game. Here's what makes this match so fucking beautiful ; it's simply the story of the very first and GOAT match HIAC, but reversed. In the very first HIAC match you had Shawn trying to escape the cage because he was in there with a fucking DEMON who was hell bent on destroying him. Here we have Hunter (the HEEL) trying to keep the Foley inside of the cell in fear of letting Foley get into his element outside in a chaotic environment. The reverse storytelling is 100 percent brilliant and what makes it so wonderful is that it perfectly suits both Foley who manages to find his way out of the cell and going on a lunatic like rampage, and The Game who would rather keep Foley in a controlled environment where he could use his elite physical attributes to dissect the hardcore icon. Everything stays controlled and in The Game's favor seemingly until Foley finds his way out, and it's Foley's own aspirations to be INSANE that ultimately costs him his career. The bump at the end mixed with the look on Stephanie's face is absolutely superb and puts Hunter even more over than he was before this match. Is it better than the Rumble match? No, but it's certainly one of the highest matches at 4 and a half stars that you'll see from me for sure, and a top 5 Foley match in the WWF/WWE at that, brilliance. My only gripe with having this match on here is that there's no alternate commentary track and since we've already gotten this on numerous WWE DVD releases in the past, the value of having this on the DVD is greatly diminished.

*Disc Rating : 5/10 *

The thing about this DVD is simple ; you buy it for the documentary and the alternate commentaries and that's it. You'd think that with such a wide array of matches in the Foley library, they'd give us a little better than a measly one unreleased four star match wouldn't they? The documentary is truly awesome and if every disc holds their value on this one I'd probably give the first an 8.5 simply because the documentary is so stellar. The alternate commentaries serve the purpose of making previously released matches fresher and giving us alternate takes over what we've already seen in the past.

The match selection is brutal as fuck for the most part. Apart from a few great matches that we haven't seen before (vs Sting, vs HHH IYH), the match selection on this one consists of a bunch of TV and/or PPV matches that don't hold up very well and have no valid reasoning for their appearance on this one. My verdict on this DVD? If you take away the documentary it's probably a slight fail for me, but adding in the documentary & alternate commentaries does the DVD wonders, enough for this to warrant a pass and a fairly decent rating. I'd recommend downloading the Sting match & the documentary if you're not a serious DVD collector though, disappointing.

*Overall DVD Rating : 6.25/10*​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I watched the Foley/Game HIAC last night myself. Agreed with your rating KOK. Going to work my way through Trips 2000 PPV matches for the hell of it. I always rave about his run at that time but have never watched the whole thing back to back. 

*vs. Cactus Jack, RR - *****
vs. Cactus Jack, NWO - ****1/2*

:HHH2

Saw some discussion on HBK/Angle from Mania 21 a page or so back. I must be in the minority in only having it at ***1/2 then. It's fun but more flash over substance imo. Definitely not a classic in my book. I have no idea what they were trying to do and thought it was all over the place really but I'll be damned if I didn't have fun watching it. Shawn's match with Vince the next year is better. I'm not even joking.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

was in class and meeting all day today smh but I believe 26>>>>>25, it may not be here but I thing everybody in the other sections of the forum all believe 25>>26. 26 is the clost thing to a perfect, flawless match


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

WWE match listings always irritate me for these sets because they are reluctant to put the same match out on multiple sets. If this is the definitive Foley set it should have all his best matches not just the ones that haven't been on another set.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Is it sad that I am super excited about KOK's Top 100 Cena matches, DEM TV GEMZ :mark: maybe it can be out by this week 

Also, I have completely nixed the Top 1000 plan, I may take on another project, I don't know, perhaps a WWECW one, WE WILL SEE!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Some Foley matches:

Taker/Mankind KOTR 98- ****
Rock/Mankind RR 99- ****
Cactus/HHH RR 00- ****3/4
Cactus/HHH NWO 00- ****
Cactus/Orton BL 04- ****
Edge/Foley WM22- ****1/4
6-Mixed Tag ONS 2006- ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ little low for the BL04 match ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have fourteen matches left to go, so you MIGHT see the list by the end of the week but I'm not 100 percent sure how I'm going to do it yet. Might just count down 5-10 every single day until the list is completely revealed, shaping up to be a pretty damn interesting list with a few very controversial picks on there.

NO DOUBT there's going to be alot of hate for it.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> was in class and meeting all day today smh but I believe 26>>>>>25, it may not be here but I thing everybody in the other sections of the forum all believe 25>>26. 26 is the clost thing to a perfect, flawless match


I agree I rate the HIAC and the 2 WM matches 5 stars but I would say WM26>HIAC>WM25


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^^ little low for the BL04 match ?


**** too low for that match? Nah.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> I have fourteen matches left to go, so you MIGHT see the list by the end of the week but I'm not 100 percent sure how I'm going to do it yet. Might just count down 5-10 every single day until the list is completely revealed, shaping up to be a pretty damn interesting list with a few very controversial picks on there.
> 
> NO DOUBT there's going to be alot of hate for it.


 Have you saved your top 50 WM matches? I'd like to see again :lol 

:cena3


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> **** too low for that match? Nah.


Its your opinion and at the end of the day thats all that matters right ? I actually may be in the minority and I truly beleive FOley/Orton BL04>>> FOley/hhh rr 00


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watched Edge/Hardy from SummerSlam 05 again. Goddamn, you can't avert your eyes. It's almost like you're mesmerized by the brutality.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

> Its your opinion and at the end of the day thats all that matters right ? I actually may be in the minority and I truly beleive FOley/Orton BL04>>> FOley/hhh rr 00


True the first sentence. I myself wouldn't put Foley/Orton anywhere near Foley/HHH RR. I think I have it above the Foley/HHH HIAC match.


Top 40 Cena Matches (number is the amount of Cena matches in my top 300 that this list comes from. Though keep in mind the list, and more specifically matches ***1/2 and lower are still a work in progress, hence the lack of matches at those ratings):

(****1/2)
1) vs. Umaga RR 2007
(****1/4)
2) vs. Punk MITB 2011
3) vs. HBK Raw in London 2007
4) vs. Lesnar ER 2012
5) vs. Edge vs. Orton vs. HBK BL 2007
(****)
6) vs. Edge BL 2009
7) vs. Edge vs. Mysterio vs. Jericho vs. Knox vs. Kane NWO 2009
8) vs. Undertaker June 2004
9) vs. Edge Unforgiven 2006
10) vs. JBL JD 2005
11) vs. Batista SS 2008
12) vs. Punk NOC 2012
13) vs. Punk SS 2011
14) vs. HBK WM23
15) w/ HBK vs. Taker and Batista NWO 2007
(***3/4)
16) vs. Taker Vengeance 2003
17) vs. Orton NWO 2008
18) vs. HHH Raw October 2009
19) vs. Barrett HIAC 2010
20) vs. Orton SS 2007
21) vs. Mysterio Raw 7/25/2011
22) vs. HBK First Raw 2009 match
23) vs. HBK vs. HHH SVS 2009
24) vs. Punk Raw 2/25/2013
25) vs. HHH NOC 2008
26) vs. RVD ONS 2006
27) vs. Edge vs. HHH BL 2006
28) w/ Team WWE vs. The Nexus SS 2010
29) vs. Punk Raw 8/22/2011
30) vs. Lashley GAB 2007
31) vs. Taker SD sometime after Vengeance 2003
32) vs. Angle NM 2003
(***1/2)
33) vs. Orton BP 2009
34) vs. Punk vs. Del Rio HIAC 2011
35) vs. Orton vs. HHH WM24
36) vs. Rock WM28
37) w/ Ryback and Sheamus vs. The Shield EC 2013
(***1/4)
38) vs. JBL RR 2009
39) w/ Team Angle vs. Team Lesnar SVS 2003
40) vs. HBK vs. Carlito vs. Masters vs. Kane vs. Angle NYR 2006


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cactus Jack vs Vader - 4-17-93: ****1/4. Great match and giving some of the rating because it's such a landmark match for Mick. Vader was fucking brutal in this match but Mick kept on getting up and fighting.

Foley/Edge/Lita vs Tommy/Funk/Bealuh - ONS '06. ****1/4. Some sick shit in this one. Watching Terry bump is scary knowing how old he is (more scary is that he still wrestles). Awesome story telling in this one between all 6. lol'ed at the fans chanting "fuck you edge" cuz i remember when he helps rvd win the title later they atone for that and chant "thank you edge".


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's two matches in your top 10 that won't make the top 100 .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^ No Way Out 2009 and Backlash 2009? Haven't seen the Taker match, so can't judge that one. I know some people don't care for the Edge match at Unforgiven 2006. I liked it, however.

Also, I just watched Foley/Trips HIAC the other day and guess I get the story of Foley trying to get out and Trips trying to keep him inside, but I don't think it was that great. Certainly don't think it's a top 5 cell match. Need to go back to the RR Street Fight and see that one. I'd probably have the HIAC at ***3/4, as low as that sounds.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> There's two matches in your top 10 that won't make the top 100 .


In just the top 10? Not making the top 100? I couldn't imagine any of those top ten matches not making a top 100 Cena match list. 

Hm... maybe the chamber match... and um... the four-way? Or one of the Edge matches? I'd guess Backlash since most seem to prefer the TLC match. Fuck though, not sure.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Edge/Cena @ Backlash is pretty terrible tbh, watched it a few days ago and was not impressed at all.

TILL SHOW KILLED CENA.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^^^WHAAATTT ! nah lol I really liked their BL 09 match alot, best of their series. Edge's last great match I think, and show destroying cena at the end wwas great


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Nah, Summerslam, Raw Feb 06 and their cage match top it easily for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm with redskins on this.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Had to watch that Hollywood Backlot Brawl with Piper and Goldust. Still fun after all these years bar the stupid OJ footage. Goldie in women's garb is still nightmare-inducing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE UNDERTAKER AND DANIEL BRYAN ARE TAKING ON THE SHIELD (Kane is involved too I guess) AT THE MOMENT.

STOP WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU ARE DOING AND WATCH.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> THE UNDERTAKER AND DANIEL BRYAN ARE TAKING ON THE SHIELD (Kane is involved too I guess) AT THE MOMENT.
> 
> STOP WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU ARE DOING AND WATCH.


THIS


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Yeah I was at that Shield vs. The Undertaker & Team Hell No match LIVE :


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho/Ziggler: ****1/4*
Shield/Team Hell No + Undertaker: *****1/4*

What a RAW. A shame that all the fun ends soon.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

****3/4* for the Taker/Kane/Bryan vs Shield match. Another excellent outing by The Shield, and they picked up the win too.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Shield is so money.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Bryan/Kane vs. The Shield- ****1/4 on first watch. Best Shield match this year.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I didn't see enough of Ziggler/Jericho (Actually reading Jericho's book)

Shield/ Team hell no and Taker - ****

I dug the match alot but a few little things caused me not to go a little higher rating.. The finish wasn't good either imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rollins was clearly the MVP of that one, with a hell of a job bumping around and really putting over the offense of the face team.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I have barely been paying attention to RAW all night, and that included The Shield's match just now. Don't know why. 

Well now this means Undertaker goes back into hiding until next years WrestleMania, and The Shield challenge Team Hell No for the Tag Titles at Extreme Rules, with The Shield winning.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Seems like I am the only one that enjoyed Ziggler/Jericho more than the six man, thought the Ziggler/Jericho match was their best one, ****, but the 6 man was mark worthy, ***3/4, Raw has been great from a wrestling stand point.

I also rather enjoyed Rhodes/Tensai more than I humanely thought possible, **3/4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I actually had a tough time enjoying Ziggler/Jericho. Maybe on a rewatch it'll change.

Shield got about 4 appearances on this show. Chopper entrance, camera promo, match, last segment. Six man tag was brilliant. Very curious to see if Taker sticks around for more.

Thought Ryback worked super hard in that promo. Cena being the ultra good guy by helping was fpalm worthy, but whatever.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I didn't even watch the end of Raw but Cena going back to help Ryback was to prove a point.

Anyway, I don't know why Taker couldn't work Summerslam or a few shows here and there.. He looks relatively healthy and he can do his spots... He really started taking time off cause he was banged up really bad and they do need to protect his mania match.

Still, he's a big draw and only helps business when he shows up now.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

***1/2 for The Shield match. I loved watching it but for me commercial breaks always interrupt the flow of me watching a match. I don't rate tv matches as high for that reason unless I watch them on dvd. Even then it still kind of bugs me.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> ***1/2 for The Shield match. I loved watching it but for me commercial breaks always interrupt the flow of me watching a match. I don't rate tv matches as high for that reason unless I watch them on dvd. Even then it still kind of bugs me.


Commerical breaks used to bother me alot and it does disrupt the flow but rarely is their some key moment happening during commerical... the WWE does a good job of timing, maybe even the ref tells the guys when they're going to break cause I don't feel like I miss much if anything.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

**** 3/4* for HELL NO/Undertaker vs The Shield. About the same as their Mania match for me in all honesty, I'm interested in the seeing just exactly what the big blowoff for the Shield actually is as they've gotten one HELL of a fucking rub tonight.

Anybody want to take a stab at what the blowoff may be for SHIELD?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I can't stand Ryback so I love the way they are booking him right now. He is all bark and no bite and looks like a giant pussy right now. After Cena beats him at Extreme Rules he may just fade away.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> **** 3/4* for HELL NO/Undertaker vs The Shield. About the same as their Mania match for me in all honesty, I'm interested in the seeing just exactly what the big blowoff for the Shield actually is as they've gotten one HELL of a fucking rub tonight.
> 
> Anybody want to take a stab at what the blowoff may be for SHIELD?


Being fed to John Cena the way Nexus was. He will be the guy that breaks them apart.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Dark Church said:


> I can't stand Ryback so I love the way they are booking him right now. He is all bark and no bite and looks like a giant pussy right now. After Cena beats him at Extreme Rules he may just fade away.


Finally! Somebody else that thinks Ryback is overrated.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I'm guessing as well to be honest. 

Cena vs Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns all sound intriguing in different ways, although I'm sure that Cena/Rollins would be MOTY quality.

Finally somebody thinks Ryback is overrated? Anybody with a brain can realize that Ryback sucks at literally everything he attempts to do in the WWE. I think he's TRYING to be effective as a character, but in the end he just can't work, and he certainly can't cut a decent promo worth fuck all. 

RYBACK SUX STOOPID!


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I really want a Bryan/Rollins singles match on PPV. I know I can just go watch a Danielson/Black match but I want to see how they will do now.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

KingOfKings said:


> That's what I'm guessing as well to be honest.
> 
> Cena vs Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns all sound intriguing in different ways, although I'm sure that Cena/Rollins would be MOTY quality.
> 
> ...


I know the matches would be good but if this all ends up being built just for Cena to ride in on his white horse and run over these guys it would make me really sick.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> **** 3/4* for HELL NO/Undertaker vs The Shield. About the same as their Mania match for me in all honesty, I'm interested in the seeing just exactly what the big blowoff for the Shield actually is as they've gotten one HELL of a fucking rub tonight.
> 
> Anybody want to take a stab at what the blowoff may be for SHIELD?


The Shield runs thru everyone imagainable, holding the tag titles til Money in the bank when a mysterious man all in black costs them the tag titles to whoever... 

Then, next night on Raw, The Shield calls out who cost them the titles, demanding justice.

And this music hits....








LOL I really have no idea.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> That's what I'm guessing as well to be honest.
> 
> Cena vs Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns all sound intriguing in different ways, although I'm sure that Cena/Rollins would be MOTY quality.
> 
> ...


On the raw forum, their dickriding Ryback.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Taker/Bryan/Kane vs The Shield was phenomenal. Easily a ****** from me. I agree with KOK in saying that Rollins was the highlight of the match. 

Ziggler/Jericho was also a pretty great match. I'd give it a ****1/4*.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

That's irrelevant said:


> Taker/Bryan/Kane vs The Shield was phenomenal. Easily a ****** from me. I agree with KOK in saying that Rollins was the highlight of the match.
> 
> Ziggler/Jericho was also a pretty great match. I'd give it a ****1/4*.


Umm, it wasn't that good. ***1/2


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Umm, it wasn't that good. ***1/2


Your opinion. I thought it was that damn good. To each it's own I guess.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are me and Choke2Death the only guys that post in this thread that actually like Ryback? Oh dear, it feels so weird to take a position that is in the vast minority.

Extreme Rules is looking more and more like a really good PPV. I don't know if we ever got a bad PPV after Mania. Even 1999 had an awesome Backlash match.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The Hardcore Show said:


> I know the matches would be good but if this all ends up being built just for Cena to ride in on his white horse and run over these guys it would make me really sick.


There is little reason for Cena to be involved in this. He already was in a match with them and lost so if he beat them single handily, that would be shitting on them bad.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are me and Choke2Death the only guys that post in this thread that actually like Ryback? Oh dear, it feels so weird to take a position that is in the vast minority.
> 
> Extreme Rules is looking more and more like a really good PPV. I don't know if we ever got a bad PPV after Mania. Even 1999 had an awesome Backlash match.


I'm pretty neutral with Ryback. I don't hate him but I'm not really a fan of his either. I thought he did a pretty good job in his promo minus his facial expressions. 

As for Extreme Rules, yeah, I agree. The build-up to the PPV has been pretty solid so far. I can't wait for it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know if anybody has realized this besides me yet, but we've gotten some absolutely SICK matches on RAW so far this year. 

- CM Punk vs Ryback (TLC)
- CM Punk vs Chris Jericho
- Chris Jericho vs Daniel Bryan
- SHIELD vs Jericho/Ryback/Sheamus
- SHIELD vs Brothers of Destruction

Oh, and the GOAT RAW match happened this year also, not like it's a big deal or anything.

I was SO fucking excited to see John Cena work a main event program with somebody who WASN'T THE FUCKING ROCK and who do I get? Ryback. YAY. I wish Cena could be involved with a quality challenger and I really hope that the Ryback feud is dropped after Extreme Rules to be honest so that Cena can move on to somebody more worthy of a main event spot, Henry maybe?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not dickriding Ryback, but tonight was clearly a better promo than he's cut. This was probably the longest time he's gotten. I did LOL at his sudden outburst - "Shut up! Shut up! Just shut up!"

We'll see if he's magically learned how to work a good match with someone who's not Punk or Shield.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that Ryback might be able to work a convincing heel segment as long as he stays at a slow methodical pace dissecting Cena ALA Big Show @ Judgment Day 2009. If that happens, expect the whole world besides me and a few others to absolutely fucking hate the match. It's NO DOUBT going to be a slower paced match though, that much I'm 100 percent certain of.

The show's probably going to be good but I'm expecting a downgrade from both the 2011 and 2012 editions due to what the card is currently looking like. I'm getting four star vibes from SHIELD and BROCK/GAME though so who knows what could happen.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah that Foley Doc was great. Thoughts on top 5 docs? I know it comes up often I'm sure 

1. Rise and Fall
2. Stone Cold
3. CM Punk
4a. Foley
4b. Jericho?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top Five 'Superstar' Documentaries

1. CM Punk
2. Steve Austin
3. Bret Hart
4. Mick Foley
5. Chris Jericho

Was REALLY tempted to put the PILLMAN documentary on there, but in the end I never. 

Worst Superstar Documentary ever, anybody want to throw in an opinion?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

John Cena Experience? Seriously, I don't remember much of that even being about wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So should I just watch the Angle/Lesnar iron man with commercial breaks? Is there much of a difference?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Never seen the Pillman one, should probably check it. But yeah worst doc is definitely harder for me than best doc because I can't remember any stinkers. Always hated the half hearted ones where it is just a short segment between each match besides My Journey, that was fine.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> So should I just watch the Angle/Lesnar iron man with commercial breaks? Is there much of a difference?


I think you should as most of them are continuations of BROCK's heel control segments, you really get a sense of the pacing a little better when you watch it with no commercial breaks and you see Brock's beast mode heel control segments. Depends how much you value your pacing in a match I suppose and how much commercial breaks affect you on the regular.

The John Cena Experience should only be watched by hardcore fans of John Cena. If you're not a DIE HARD CENA fan (meaning a fan of him as a person and not just as a performer) you should stay the fuck away from the EXPERIENCE doc or prepare to blow your brains out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> I think you should as most of them are continuations of BROCK's heel control segments, you really get a sense of the pacing a little better when you watch it with no commercial breaks and you see Brock's beast mode heel control segments. Depends how much you value your pacing in a match I suppose and how much commercial breaks affect you on the regular.


I'm thinking about watching the commercial version and only tracking down the full one if I really, really like the match and I think it could place onto a top 100 2000s thingy.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Eddie's "Cheating Death, Stealing Life" is rather poor. It's not bad, but I would love to see them take another crack at it.

Also, I'm a Ryback fan. I'm rooting hard for him to beat Cena, I like John but Ryback will be fucked if he loses ANOTHER PPV match.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I don't particularly like Mysterio's dvds although I'm a huge fan.. no really sit down interviews..

I'd say Jake Roberts doc is one of the worst only because it's short imo and very dark.. plus, Jake's voice was hard to understand.. 

My favorite has got to be HBk's


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd actually make a case for the Jake Roberts DVD as one of the greatest documentaries about wrestling PERIOD .


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Haha I love most of them, just afterward I was like, damn that was too short, I'm sad and what the fuck was Jake saying half the time?

Love Jake the Snake though.

Have you see Dusty's dvd? I really wanna see that one.

Also, patiently waiting for a Goldust DVD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I remember in 2006 being SO excited for the Dusty DVD just because it was so jam packed full of promos. 

One day in the summer of 06 I sat down and watched Dusty Rhodes' promos all fucking day man, it was fantastic.

Almost as fantastic as my birthday nearly two years ago ; my graduation was scheduled to occur on my birthday (CRAZY I know), but due to a hurricane warning I spent my birthday in my room watching The Definitive Ric Flair collection in it's entirety. THE WHOLE FUCKING THING .


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Flair's dvd's are epic. Both of them. My uncle actually bought his first one for himself and he's a casual wrestling fan now. I remember back then, he was like Flair was the MAN! haha funny to watch a 40 year old marking out over a dvd.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Raw now. Looking forward to the 6 man. 

Heyman took that Pedigree like a boss.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I've been disappointed in documentaries but I don't remember a bad one.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jericho/Ziggler was alright. Solid but ultimately nothing memorable. They've both had better matches this year.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't mind Ryback. Should he be in the main event less than a year into his career ? No.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

That Ryback promo was horrible. Just screaming for no reason. He looked completely lost out their and just doesn't know how to pace himself or control a crowd.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

SHIELD arrived on a fucking helicopter. i just lost my shit.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Shield is still undefeated. Fantastic match. Good effort by all six men.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I'm probably the only one who has HBK/Taker WM25 over WM26 then (only by a _small_ margin though ) :$
> 
> Oh, and Sharkboy lol.


I think Taker/HBK WM 25 is the greatest match of all time.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

*Taker/Bryan/Kane vs The Shield - *****

Very good match,i wonder if Taker is going to compete at ER, because i would love to see a rematch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

robertdeniro said:


> *Taker/Bryan/Kane vs The Shield - *****
> 
> Very good match,i wonder if Taker is going to compete at ER, because i would love to see a rematch.


Me too, Taker looked great out there, here's hoping for another appearance from him before Mania.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Rollins is the best bumper in the WWE.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yup, Rollins selling last night especially was superb.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

The fuckin' Undertaker wrestled on RAW, and it was all kinds of win. Dude looked in great shape out there, better than he looked last year. 

I'm praying we see him again either on RAW or at Extreme Rules. 'Taker can still go, everytime he shows up he further cements himself as possibly the GOAT. If I didn't lose my shit over every single thing The Rock does all the time, I'd seriously consider 'Taker to be the greatest. 

Hell, I may as well just give up and admit. Rocky is my favourite, but Undertaker is the greatest superstar ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> The fuckin' Undertaker wrestled on RAW, and it was all kinds of win. Dude looked in great shape out there, better than he looked last year.
> 
> I'm praying we see him again either on RAW or at Extreme Rules. 'Taker can still go, everytime he shows up he further cements himself as possibly the GOAT. If I didn't lose my shit over every single thing The Rock does all the time, I'd seriously consider 'Taker to be the greatest.
> 
> Hell, I may as well just give up and admit. Rocky is my favourite, but Undertaker is the greatest superstar ever.


You just have to convert the other Rock marks now :side:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

SHIELD still going strong and getting better and better as a unit. 

I still think Roman is the one who is going to go far out of the three, just because he's got the "look" and he'll improve with some more work, not to say i'm not impressed already. The man can actually hit a Spear correctly :mark:

The other two are immensely talented and i _hope_ they do indeed go far. WWE is actually getting something right with the booking of the Shield, long may it continue.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought Ambrose was better bumping wise, Rollins was good with the facial expressions and everything zoned into the psychology field while Reigns was agressive in his role. Overall, The match was really good, Even better then The Shield's match at Mania, ****3/4*.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

They need to give Ambrose a finisher. The finish was a little weak last night, it felt like it needed a big move to finish it off, rather than Ambrose rolling Bryan up.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I dunno i liked the finish, it gave a feeling of Shield knew they needed to end the match asap and get out of there with the win. The exhausting double hooked roll up was just the cherry at the top of the cake as far as the finish goes. 

He does need to get a finisher soon though, i agree.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I hated the finish, felt very anti-climatic and unfulfilling to such a great bout.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

zep81 said:


> You just have to convert the other Rock marks now :side:


There are some Rock fans here that think he's the ONLY guy in existence and seem to ignore everyone else that's any good. The product can suck at times but there's so many great guys on the roster, some we get to see a lot of and some that need more chance to shine. But just look at all these great guys actively competing still...

The Shield
Damien Sandow
Cody Rhodes
CM Punk
Daniel Bryan
Kane
The Undertaker
Chris Jericho
Dolph Ziggler

And we see all of those last night apart from Punk. Then throw in Sheamus who can have a great match when given the right time and right opponenent. When Orton is motivated he can be great too. Then, during Wrestlemania season we get the big stars like Brock, Rock, Triple H etc and things get better. So there's plenty to enjoy. As much as I worship the guy, there's more to enjoy than just Rocky.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*SHIELD vs. THE BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION & DANIEL BRYAN/TEAM HELL NO & THE UNDERTAKER - ***3/4*

I don't think I have a single SHIELD match at less than ***1/2 stars.

*TLC - ****1/2
EC - ****1/4
Raw after EC - ****
Mania - ***1/2
Raw UK - ***3/4*

Is that all of them?

GOATSHIELD. These guys are just :mark: and that helicopter entrance was :mark: and their booking is :mark: and just overall :mark:. RAW IS SHIELD. 

:ambrose2 :rollins :reigns


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What about their match against Khali, Ryder & Gabriel? 8*D


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Shield is everything and much more The Nexus should've been, only much less numbered, much more talented and simply much more badass. DA SHIELD.

Speaking of Nexus, been through the Cena vs Nexus feud for my Best Of PG Era, and it's most pretty good:

Team WWE vs Nexus - ****1/2
Cena vs Nexus Handicap - **1/2
Cena vs Barrett HIAC - ***3/4
Cena vs Otunga Slammies - *
Cena vs Barrett TLC - ***

Other than the original attack after the Cena/Punk Viewer's Choice match, the match with Team WWE was the highlight of the Nexus angle. It was all so beautifully crafted in a way that Nexus would lose (SUPERCENANOSELLINGCONCRETELOL) but they would still look strong in defeat - even though from here on they simply became jobbers. Many of the "young guys" like Ryback Sheffield, Barrett, even Slater looked great. MVP was easily Daniel Bryan though. The guy was bumping from left to right, selling desperation out of his every single move, just terrific.

The Handicap match was just a way to sell Cena as an unstoppable force that can take any number from left to right... again. The bit with Gabriel is very good though, which includes Cena's only good looking dropkick ever.

The HIAC match with Barrett was great, those two had excellent in-ring chemistry and for two guys who kinda take on shit for not being great workers, they provided some really cool wrestling in this. The crowd was also incredibly invested too - so much that kids and marks all over the arena were crying at the result of the match - which made for an obviously better experience. One thing that did boggle and at the same time raise me a smile is how they let Wade Barrett, who's essentially a jobber nowadays, kick out of the AA. Punk kicking out of the Tombstone was less shocking than that for me.

The Otunga match was a squash... and the Barrett TLC match was a fun, stiff squash. They did the best use they could out of the gimmick (fucking Chairs Match). Nothing really else top add there.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What about their match against Khali, Ryder & Gabriel? 8*D


************

GOAT match of all time. i forgot about that one


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

tbhayley they had a match on Main Event which was actually pretty good too. vs Tons of Funk and Kofi I think.

****** for SHIELD vs Team Hell No & Taker. I got some damn giddy watching Taker wrestle, the man has such an aura whenever he gets in the ring and he always delivers. Really liked Rollins' trash talking, he's stepped it up a bunch in this group. Would be so happy if this got a rematch on PPV with more time.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh damn, I forgot about Rollins trash talking Taker. That was great. I gave that match ****3/4* on first watch, will obviously view again though. Raw matches often get a slightly lower rating from me due to ad breaks hurting the flow slightly. Maybe I should cave and get the WWE app. :argh:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rollins trash talking and Taker giving him the cut throat was an awesome moment. I imagine Rollins, Ambrose and Reigns were all marking like crazy getting to work a match with Taker. I also think all three of them took full advantage and gave a showing of themselves up against the Deadman. Was great to see. The fact that they went over only makes it better. 

inb4 THE SONS OF MCMAHON beat them in a 2 on 3 handicap match.

:HHH2 :cena4 :vince5


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Shield/BOB&Bryan- ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah would have been nice to have the match Ad free for a change, i knew they would do it though. WWE may upload the full match though on YT (hopefully with the heli entrance :mark

Reminded me Flair at GAB 97!!!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Had a little look through my 2013 list of memorable matches when I went to add the Shield match in and nothing has passed the *****1/4* mark for me yet. At this stage I'm wondering what's going to end up as the MOTY. Only 8 months to go...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I agree that we had many good matches in this start of year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So yeah, thought that Shield tag kinda blew on Raw this week. 

:lmao

Was awesome. Undertaker makes me :mark: pretty much nonstop during his matches. Cut throat to Rollins was epic. A little disappointed that it won't be a PPV match, but eh, can't really complain since we at least got to see it in general . Guessing Team Hell No Vs Shield for the tag belts at ER. Should be good too. New tag champs, and hopefully Kane and Bryan can go their separate ways.

Speaking of Bryan, randomly watched his OTL match with Punk again last night. God I still adore that match. Definitely my MOTY for last year ahead of even HHH/Undertaker HIAC which I adore almost as much. Punk's best match, though I should re-watch his Joe trilogy again at some point. Bryan's best in WWE.

Regal showing up on Raw made me :mark: too. Shame he got squashed essentially by Fandangoawaynobodylikesyoutheyjustlikesigningyourentrancethemeyoutwat. But Regal dancing then smashing Fandango in the face with a forearm made me smile .


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> *SHIELD vs. THE BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION & DANIEL BRYAN/TEAM HELL NO & THE UNDERTAKER - ***3/4*
> 
> I don't think I have a single SHIELD match at less than ***1/2 stars.
> 
> ...


Wait a minute. What made the EC match ****1/4? I tried hard to like that match, but I could not rate it anything above **3/4 at best. It was slow and nothing really good happened. In my opinion at least.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

EC match is boss, just great in ring work from SHIELD, Cena and Sheamus 

Would go **** but will want to re-watch it :mark:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I dont like how the Shield have no direction. There strongly booked but its the same ole shit with them. They come out, beat someone up, and leave. 

They have good matches though.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

So I just finished the Foley DVD. Amazing.

It's definitely one of, if not my favourite superstar DVD. I mean what a human being. I have the utmost respect for him as a performer, an entertainer and just a personal in general. I'm glad that I had the chance to live through the times of Mick Foley and he will always be one of my favourites of all time.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Undertaker said:


> Wait a minute. What made the EC match ****1/4? I tried hard to like that match, but I could not rate it anything above **3/4 at best. It was slow and nothing really good happened. In my opinion at least.


Roman spearing Sheamus through the barricade. That's what happened.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah at least **** for The Shield EC match, really enjoyed it myself.

Hope someone uploads The Shield/Taker-Hell No match (with Heli entrance if possible) on TY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley DVD: I liked the documentary, I really did, and the Bluray extras part of it were good too... but I wasn't as impressed with it as I was expecting. For starters, did they even mention his feud with Flair? I only seem to recall Flair being mentioned in passing when talking about the EAR incident in Germany. Plus, there was no mention of the ONS 06 tag, and they really skipped over the Edge WM 22 match too, and didn't go that deep into the Orton stuff either. And they only mentioned the Edge and Orton stuff in the bluray extras part I believe. So for as good as it was, I felt like they skipped over a lot of stuff or simply didn't go into as much detail as I felt they should have. BUT, having read all his books and watched his shoot interviews, I have all that stuff at hand anyway, but would have been nice if they went into more detail in the documentary. Wouldn't put it in my top 5 that's for sure.

Rough top 5:

1. The Last of McGuinness
2. CM Punk: Best in the World (watched this again a couple of days ago. Regal talking about the first time he met Punk always cracks me up: "He looked like a scruffy swine. Best place to hide anything from him would be under the soap" :lmao)
3. The Rise + Fall of ECW
4. Jake Roberts: Pick Your Poison
5. The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA

Honourable mention to the WCCW doc too, which goes hand in hand with the independently made one that was released before WWE bought the WCCW library. Both go into detail about different things here and there so both go together perfectly to get a real good insight into the company and the people involved.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Yeah at least **** for The Shield EC match, really enjoyed it myself.
> 
> Hope someone uploads The Shield/Taker-Hell No match (with Heli entrance if possible) on TY.


Zepi asks and he shall receive.

http://quickvideoz.info/dm.php?id=k2k6cqy0yJx21R40qkm (Part 1) (Starts at 12:18) 
http://quickvideoz.info/dm.php?id=k2RY9k6L6hXNEL40qkr (Part 2)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Zepi asks and he shall receive.
> 
> http://quickvideoz.info/dm.php?id=k2k6cqy0yJx21R40qkm (Part 1) (Starts at 12:18)
> http://quickvideoz.info/dm.php?id=k2RY9k6L6hXNEL40qkr (Part 2)


Thanks


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Shield entrance was definitely nice. Apparently Fandango and Summer Rae were on that chopper too, as they were all flying in from Smackdown. 

I'd go **** on that six man tag also. REALLY wondering if Taker isn't starting his retirement tour.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gotta love the UK crowd in that Shield tag too btw, just before the finish when Ambrose runs the apron to climb the ropes and nearly trips over Rollins, and you just hear the crowd go "wheeeyyy!" :lmao.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 29th November 2004 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Edge (World Heavyweight Championship)*

After winning the Survivor Series match I reviewed in the previous entry, it's now Randy Orton's turn to run Raw. I genuinely couldn't recall how this match came about until J.R mentioned the battle royale on commentary. Still, did Benoit and Edge both win that somehow? I can't remember. Anyway, it's a triple threat match for the World Heavyweight Title. Edge and Benoit get pissed at each other early and start lashing out at each other. HHH is content to just lay back in the corner and let them go at it, even applauding a nice move by Edge. With Edge on the apron, The Game knocks him to the outside and desperately tries to pin Benoit as quickly as he can. After three consecutive 2 counts, Benoit counters with a nice German suplex before Edge arrives back in and both he and HHH work on Benoit briefly. Benoit comes back with a double clothesline over the top before a suicide dive to both men as Raw goes to a break.

With Edge on the outside, Benoit locks the Crossface in on HHH towards the corner. Batista and Flair arrive to break it up and take out Benoit, before Orton comes down and banishes them from ringside. Orton then takes a seat at ringside, as Edge is setting HHH up for the Spear, though it's countered with a high knee followed by a 2 count. Benoit comes back into the ring and hits a few suplexes, including one on Edge which lands right on HHH's head. Benoit then locks Edge in the Sharpshooter, though HHH breaks it up after shoving Orton into the ringpost. Benoit fights back against HHH before hitting a set of Germans on Edge and heading to the top rope. HHH knocks him off and into the referee. HHH wants to seize this opportunity and grabs a chair, before Orton stops him and whacks him over the head with a chair shot and HHH falls into the crowd. Back in the ring, Edge is lining Benoit up for the Spear, but Benoit counters brilliantly into the Crossface. Edge looks in pain but rolls Benoit over and pins him as he taps to the Crossface at the same time. No one knows what's going on or who's the champ as Raw goes off the air.

A very good TV match, very fast paced with a lot of action. HHH being the master of his own downfall by originally taking out Orton for no reason, before getting a big chair shot was a good little subplot. Another Benoit heavy crowd but Edge held his own in there too. The finish hurts the match a little, despite it not necessarily being a bad idea, screwy finishes like that always leave a little sour taste.

****1/2*

*Raw 6th December 2004 - Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho*

Ok, who can recall a HHH match that began with him running to the ring during his entrance? Well this is probably one of the only ones, as Lilian Garcia announces him as "the former World Heavyweight Champion". Although I've never seen anyone announced as the former champion, HHH looks pissed as fuck and then sprints to the ring and chases down Lilian as she escapes through the crowd. It's a pretty hilarious moment, HHH's facial expressions selling his anger at her and also his love of the world title. 

Onto the match, and Jericho and Benoit have a lot of early control on HHH and keep him away from Batista. Raw is from Charlotte, North Carolina and with Flair not at ringside there are huge "we want Flair" chants from the crowd. Benoit goes for an early Crossface attempt but Batista pulls HHH out of harms way. Jericho and Benoit then hit a double dropkick on Batista before Raw cuts to commercial. After returning, it seems a lot has happened as Flair is now at ringside after distracting the referee and allowing Batista to take control. He and HHH dominate Jericho by working on his sternum with a Cobra Clutch and an abdominal stretch. Jericho eventually makes the hot tag to Benoit who cleans house and hits a set of German suplexes on HHH. Jericho then hits the lionsault, which is followed by a diving headbutt before both men try to lock HHH into their respective submissions at the same time. Batista interferes and hits a big spinebuster on Benoit. HHH now has a chair and begins swinging wildly, leading to a disqualification. Benoit is taken out first, and as the ref tries to stop HHH, he gets a chair shot to the head aswell. Batista is then inadvertently taken out before a final shot to Jericho. 

Another solid tag match from 2004 involving Evolution, though this one wasn't quite at their normal standards. Good heel work and the ending made a lot of sense, due to HHH's rage at the world title being vacated earlier in the night. The accidental chair shot on Batista was a good little bonus too, setting in place their eventual showdown at Wrestlemania 21.

***1/2*



Spoiler:  So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Vengeance 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 26/7/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit (Iron Man) - ***1/2
Raw 29/11/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Edge - ***1/2
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Survivor Series 2004: Team Triple H vs Team Orton - ***1/4
Raw 20/9/2004: Triple H, Batista & Flair vs Benoit, Orton & Benjamin - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Raw 11/10/2004: Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Shawn Michaels - ***
Raw 9/8/2004: Triple H & Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 6/12/2004: Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - **1/2
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

The crowd didn't want nothing to do with Kane in that match. I almost felt bad for him.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought Jericho was a face leading up to Wrestlemania 21. Good review, AHB. (Y)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

GOATAntics said:


> I thought Jericho was a face leading up to Wrestlemania 21. *Good review, AHB.* (Y)


AlienHountyBunter? :lol Thanks, though. And Jericho was a face in this match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shield matches
TLC 12 ****3/4 (just behind hhh/taker for MOTY)
ec ****
Wm 29 ***

gotta see the shield/y2j/sheamus/ryback and last nights( I was not paying attention)


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm watching the last RAW before King Of The Ring 1999 and I have a question.

Why the fuck does HBK appear from UNDERNEATH the stage during the opening segment?? 

Corporate Ministry are in the ring mouthing off, Austin comes out to a ridiculous GOD-like reaction and sits on top of a ladder. Then, HBK's music hits and he's raised up from under the stage on the platform. Random as fuck and makes no sense. Made me laugh though. 

Segment = *******


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

That 6-Man on Raw! :mark: ***3/4

Every time The Shield wrestle they produce. It's so refreshing, not only to have three talents being built so well, but to have tag-team wrestling that's significant. It makes such a difference to have some variety on WWE TV, in the form of a Shield 6-man tag. 

Taker is by far the most special attraction the WWE have. At this point I'd argue that his presence is bigger than any other wrestler in the world. He brings his A-game every time he's in the ring. Above Rock, Brock, Hunter - Taker is genuinely in a league of his own.

On an unrelated note: I can't wait for Ryback to be pushed aside. Such an unremarkable talent.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Last night was The Undertaker's first loss since Bragging Rights 2010. Granted he had only wrestled three times since then but it is still a big gap.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Undertaker said:


> Wait a minute. What made the EC match ****1/4? I tried hard to like that match, but I could not rate it anything above **3/4 at best. It was slow and nothing really good happened. In my opinion at least.


I'm still wondering myelf what makes people put it at **** and above The Shield match the night after and last night. Meh <_<


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

SHIELD In the E:

TLC 12: *****1/2*
EC 13: ******
Raw after EC: ****1/2*
WM 29: ****1/4*
UK Raw: ******

What a résumé already.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Seen everyone pimping Ambrose, future lies with the other two. He doesn't have a distinctive marketable quality, imo that the other two have (one being genetic connection & the look, the other being an intelligent Jeff Hardy).

As for ratingzzzz for them thus far, TLC ****1/2, EC ****, RAW ***1/2, WM ***1/4. Weirdly identical to Ever Wolf. Yet to see their recent match.

Throwing a tag match from the Bash 87 out, Midnight Express vs Rock n Roll Express ****1/2. Not sure whether it's July 1 or 2, but it was on WCW Worldwide 11/07/87. Oh god this is insane. RnR control segment, insane selling by Lane, loved the intelligent work by everyone involved, Gibson probably the standout since he did the offence over Lane, and was the FIP. He did a fantastic job. Making a 1987 JCP top 20 once I've done Starrcade, going to ooze too much quality.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield ratingz left me curious: when was the last time anyone's had all ***1/2+ stuff within 5 months on the main roster?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

TLC: **** 1/2
EC: ****
Raw: ****
Wrestlemania: *** 3/4
Raw: WATCHING IN A MINUTE :mark:

Anybody else (Looking at you Hayley, seeing as I know you're a huge Rollins mark but also applies to anybody else who fancies listening to me ) find it surreal that Tyler Black and Jon Moxley are working WITH THE FUCKING UNDERTAKER? It's absolutely ridiculous what difference two/three years can make. Like... Imagine three years ago, driving 8 hours to earn a couple hundred, to working with the GOAT in a (supposedly) MOTYC. Insanity. Proves that the cream will always rise to the top, though.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

ATF said:


> Shield ratingz left me curious: when was the last time anyone's had all ***1/2+ stuff within 5 months on the main roster?


Especially with the matches being 6 man tag matches too. Crazy


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I REALLY wanna see Taker work ER, but ill guess it'll be just Team Hell No vs The Shield, i think its time to break them up now anyways. (overdue if you ask me)

Be fucking great to see Taker again before Mania of course, here's hoping :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> TLC: **** 1/2
> EC: ****
> Raw: ****
> Wrestlemania: *** 3/4
> ...


Same goes for Danielson. You think a few years ago he ever thought he'd be teaming the Taker?

As for last night's match, it was really good, and very fun. Rollins is fucking awesome. That guy wins me over more and more every match they have. Guy bumps like a madman. He sold Bryan's suicide dive as if he was suffering from whiplash in a car wreck.


----------



## Gaz. (Nov 3, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> So I just finished the Foley DVD. Amazing.
> 
> It's definitely one of, if not my favorite superstar DVD. I mean what a human being. I have the utmost respect for him as a performer, an entertainer and just a personal in general. I'm glad that I had the chance to live through the times of Mick Foley and he will always be one of my favourites of all time.


Was basically about to post this myself. Foley is one of my personal favourites, and this may of been my favorite DVD I've ever watched, produced by the WWE. Well, at least the documentary part...

Was it just me who thought the match listing, kind of sucked? I mean, Mick had so many classic matches, but the ones on the DVD were no where near his best. Is it just me who felt this way, or does anybody agree?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

TLC 12: ****
EC 13: ***
Raw after EC: ***1/4
WM 29: **1/4
UK Raw: ***

Sheesh, talk about overrating. Shield is fucking awesome, and the matches are good. But majority having all of them over ***1/2 boggles my mind.

Still, a very impressive start for Shield.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Imagine Taker/Kane/GAME vs. Shield 6 Man at Summerslam? The old guard trying to reclaim the company. 

Oh my sweet lord in heaven.

:mark:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Its Shields chemistry and how unique they are that just takes most of their matches to the top level for me.

Reigns is shooting straight for the top.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

As LEGIT as the 6-man was I was on suicide watch after Cesaro jobbed to Truth.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Where would y'all rank :ambrose2, :rollins and :reigns amongst all the tag teams/stables in 'E history as of now?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Is Cesaro's new gimmick the "Yoddeling Guy" or what?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Is Cesaro's new gimmick the "Yoddeling Guy" or what?


 Yes, sadly. I remember the days where he was getting DQ wins against Sheamus and was heavily protected against Ryback and Orton. 2013 has been a poor year for him.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah it's fucking terrible. What a joke. For as well as they're handling The Shield, they sure do treat some of their other talented guys like shit.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Is Cesaro's new gimmick the "Yoddeling Guy" or what?


I'd say it's more "BURIED GUY"


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

ATF said:


> Where would y'all rank :ambrose2, :rollins and :reigns amongst all the tag teams/stables in 'E history as of now?


Not near the top atm. Give them a purpose/motivation other then "JUSTICE" and have them do something else other then come down, beat someone up for no reason, and leave. then we'll talk


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I agree w/Cynical Miracle. They are being very well protected and are obviously all very talented and consistently put on great matches, but I'm wondering when/what the big payoff will be (if they even know).


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The pay off will eventually be us getting an Ambrose/Rollins feud leading into Wrestlemania 30 :mark:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'd prefer no real direction but kept to look strong and undefeated. THEY BEAT TAKER. 

I'd prefer that to being fed to Cena. Though there's still time :/


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Waiting for Vince McMahon to reveal himself as the leader of The Shield and reclaim his throne as greatest heel of all time.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Am i the only one that dosen't see the_ top guy_ potential in Reigns, sure he has the physic but i don't know, He dosen't seem like the one you would want to represent the company, in Vince's perspective anyway.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Reigns could be a future Batista kinda easily, imo


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Reigns = Batista
Rollins = Hardy
Ambrose = idk, hopefully he'll form his own brand of main eventer

All three have main event potential for sure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd link Ambrose to Edge, maybe for both sharing good looks, all-around wrestling styles, some sadism in their characters, and perhaps the success they had/have in the Tag division.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'd be more than happy if in a few years time all are competing against each other for a unified world title. Add to that Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Bray Wyatt and some of the other talents they have and it should be good viewing. Reigns has potential with his look, his family connections and the fact that he's with Ambrose and Rollins and hopefully learning every single day.

Ambrose should always be heel. He has potential to be the biggest heel of his generation and gain mega heat. Although I am worried that due to the fact that he is so talented the crowd will end up cheering for him and the WWE will mess with him. They need to just let him be himself, he'll GET them to boo him, if he doesn't then just let him get the tweener reactions.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Imagine Taker/Kane/GAME vs. Shield 6 Man at Summerslam? The old guard trying to reclaim the company.
> 
> Oh my sweet lord in heaven.
> 
> :mark:


Taker/Rock/HHH vs. The Shield at Summerslam would be sick. 

SHIELD RATINGS:

TLC 12: ****1/2
EC 13: ***1/2
Raw after EC: ***3/4
WM 29: ***1/2
UK Raw: ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this on another forum 

during the queue for the Tube? 3 guys dressed as Taker, Bret, and Ziggler have a match. When I came out of the upper tier Taker and Bret were having a match there as well. Bret got Taker onto a table and made him tap to the Sharpshooter


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching The Shield vs Brothers of Destruction & Daniel Bryan. ★★★¾ for this one. Awesome match with a great crowd and good action from the tag work to the "all hell breaks lose" part towards the end save for the underwhelming finish. Undertaker doesn't look like he's lost a step. Wish he would appear and compete more frequently.

So far, all the major Shield matches have been damn good save for Wrestlemania. Until Randy Orton is prominent again, that match can go fuck itself.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I actually enjoyed the Mania match more then the EC match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well apparently they're setting up Orton to be the next challenger for the WHC which makes a ton of sense as it's been about a year since Orton's suspension. I don't see Orton winning the title in that feud but rather being used to elevate Ziggler even higher on the main event scale while he moves on to another feud. 

WWE/WHC/Tag Team titles are seemingly becoming more valuable than they were over the last few years.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I thought ER was supposed to involve gimmick matches. So far, of the three confirmed matches, only 1 (HHH/Lesnar) is truly a gimmick match. I guess there's still time to add a stip to Ryback/Cena, but is a triple threat now considered to be extreme?  Ladder match or GTFO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Last year had 2 singles matches with no stips, so a triple threat on its own isn't out of the ordinary I guess lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

EXTREME TRIPLE THREAT.

The only way to make Ryback-Cena watchable is to add a NO DQ stipulation.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Cena/Ryback could use a gimmick. Ryback actually seems to do well in gimmick matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Triple Threat Matches are automatically No DQ, but a lot of people forget about that until Cole or someone randomly brings it up during the match. I kind of expect them to make Cena/Ryback a Tables Match & have Lesnar/Trips main event the show.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

Shield matches:

TLC : ****1/2
EC :***1/2
Raw :***3/4
Mania: ***1/4
Raw UK: ***3/4


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, the triple threat is basically a gimmick match I guess, though I still think it could use a Ladder/TLC gimmick. 

I can see Ryback/Cena being a Chairs match if Foley bringing a chair to the ring is a foreshadowing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Expecting CARNAGE in The SHIELD match.

Going to watch The Very Best of Monday Nitro (VOLUME TWO) now, anybody have anything to say about it?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Fuck, When's the last time, we had a ladder match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Well apparently they're setting up Orton to be the next challenger for the WHC which makes a ton of sense as it's been about a year since Orton's suspension. *I don't see Orton winning the title in that feud but rather being used to elevate Ziggler even higher on the main event scale while he moves on to another feud. *
> 
> WWE/WHC/Tag Team titles are seemingly becoming more valuable than they were over the last few years.


Fuck that shit. I'd rather see Orton retire than have him become Shawn Michaels 2.0 by being in the title picture frequently only to job. That said, him entering the title scene is the only thing in the world that can get me to care about Ziggler or the World Title. That's kinda hard specially since 3 of the most boring people on the roster are fighting for it in the next PPV.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Fuck, When's the last time, we had a ladder match?


 TLC 2012, Ziggler vs Cena.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Actually, yeah save the ladder match for Shield/Hell No. That could be epic.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I enjoyed Best Of Nitro Volume 2 but Volume 1 was better as expected. Still worth a watch though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shield/Hell No should be a street fight or fall counts anywhere or something. Falls Count Anywhere preferably, then they have more of an excuse to drag the fight into the crowd and backstage and everywhere for ULTIMATE CHAOS which would be awesomesauce. Then they can use chairs, tables, ladders and anything else they want without being kinda stuck in one gimmick match.

I don't think I've been this excited to see anyone wrestle at any time for a LONG time like THE SHIELD, with the exception of Undertaker every year at WM. Apparently wwe.com has an article up speculating that there could be a 4th "mystery" member. FUCK THAT SHIT. Fuck it up the arse with a cactus named Craig. SHIELD are perfect the way they are. No new member, no leader, just them. If it ain't broken don't fix it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everybody's going to call me crazy, but if there was a MYSTERY LEADER behind The Shield, it would quite obviously be HHH.

I'd go into my reasoning behind this but I really don't fucking feel like it and I'm lazy as fuck anyways. Hope SHIELD stays as a three man freebirds type unit though which begs the question ; will their be a third member of Team HELL NO for Extreme Rules? It's be a crime for Ambrose or Rollins not to work a match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Are there any gems on the Nitro: Volume 2 DVD in terms of matches (like the DDP/Sting one from Volume 1).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Caught up with a couple highly praised matches from the past week. Del Rio vs. Swagger from Smackdown was good, better than their Mania match of course, but I thought there was too much downtime & it bothered me that half of Del Rio's offense involved his knee (the backcracker & armbreaker + the use of kicks). Good match nonetheless, nothing MOTYC worthy.

Shield vs. Taker & Hell No was a lot of fun, but that finish FUCKING SUCKED. Weakest finish in any of their major matches by a huge margin. Loved the segment between Bryan & Rollins though, plus the interaction with Rollins and Taker was awesome. Needed more time and a better finish, but I'd say high end *** 1/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on Rock coming out and stating (not the words that came out of his mouth exactly, but the gist of what he was saying) that it's either a Mania XXX match with Brock or retirement for him?

I find it to be pretty insane how much of a seismic shift there will be if Rock doesn't show up, as I'd imagine they'd switch Cena-Taker to BROCK-Taker and fiddle with some other long term plans. I for one am glad that we won't have to see him wrestle multiple times going into the future and that he can have his retirement match and slowly fade out of the picture but show up kind of like Austin did from 05-11 ish.

Actually no, they'll probably still do Cena-Taker even though I didn't think they would a few weeks ago, they'll just hotshot Punk with Brock as the co main event.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I think Cena/Taker is a bigger match then Taker/Brock at this point.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cena/Taker is THE match at this point surely, but question is, will WWE go with it, and if they do, where does that leave Brock for WM30 if Rock isnt there (DO NOT FUCKING SAY TRIPS lol)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Rock will stick around for the Brock match. It looks like they both wanna do it and plus they are great friends. Not to mention the biggest stars in WWE's possessions and together, they can fulfill Vince's dream of a successful buyrate. Plus it means Cena/Taker WILL happen as well.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Punk will face Brock, I'm guessing.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Taker NEEDS to happen so it most likely wont


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rock vs. Brock can fuck off, actually Rock can fuck off in general but I'm pretty sure Brock would just beat the shit out of him. This is what I want for Mania XXX:

*Streak
*The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar

*WWE Championship
*John Cena vs. CM Punk

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler

:yes


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The fact that Rock came out and said that the plan was and WILL BE Brock if he decides to come back tells me that Cena/Taker is main eventing Wrestlemania XXX with Punk likely winning the Rumble and facing SOMEBODY ELSE for the title.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Rock vs. Brock can fuck off, actually Rock can fuck off in general but I'm pretty sure Brock would just beat the shit out of him. This is what I want for Mania XXX:
> 
> *Streak
> *The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar
> ...


COREY.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

As the IWC's speculation goes, Punk will face Austin at WM30, If Rock/Brock goes ahead. :lmao.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'd be down for those matches Corey posted. Hell, more than down with them I'd be ecstatic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Rock vs. Brock can fuck off, actually Rock can fuck off in general but I'm pretty sure Brock would just beat the shit out of him. This is what I want for Mania XXX:
> 
> *Streak
> *The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar
> ...


That's a bigger nightmare than being taught charisma by Lance Storm. REMATCHMANIA II, anyone?

Sorry, COREY.  (rhyming wasn't my intention btw )


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I personally cant see Austin coming back for 'one more match' now, yeah a BIG payday may swing the plans, but i have my doubts even with that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wonder who could Austin have his last match with NOT named Punk, Cena or part-timer.

Maybe Sheamus? Orton?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> I wonder who could Austin have his last match with NOT named Punk, Cena or part-timer.
> 
> Maybe Sheamus? Orton?


Orton is the only answer. Rattlesnake vs Viper, Stunner vs RKO, DTA gimmick, Legend vs Legend Killer and so on.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> I wonder who could Austin have his last match with NOT named Punk, Cena or part-timer.
> 
> Maybe Sheamus? Orton?


IF he was to say yes to a comeback, id say it will be Cena or Punk.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Austin coming back would only sour his legacy, so I really hope he doesn't have another match. As great as promos would be between him and Punk, Austin's not in in-ring shape (probably). Rock is probably in better shape than him and look how bad his matches have been.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Austin coming back would be awful. Not as bad as Rocky  but close enough. I know he says he's recovered his neck but hasn't he basically got what Edge does meaning that if he takes one more bad bump he could _best_ case scenario paralyze himself?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shield Match Ratings:

TLC 12: *****1/2*
EC 13: ******
Raw after EC: ****3/4*
Superstars: *****
WM 29: ****3/4*
UK Raw: *****1/4*

Are there any videos of their house show matches? I heard those were awesome too.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

WM 30 card:

ROCK vs Lesnar

John Cena vs Undertaker

CM Punk vs Triple H


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

To have Cena/Taker NOT main event would be the dumbest thing ever because it's basically coming out and saying "HEY EVERYBODY, CENA'S NOT WINNING". If Cena DID indeed end the streak you might as well stop the show right then and there as no matter what else the WWE would put on that night, even if it was Rock vs Austin again, the fans would be so burnt out and emotional that they wouldn't be able to comprehend getting crazy for another main event.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> WM 30 card:
> 
> ROCK vs Lesnar
> 
> ...



Fixed. I really think Austin will wrestle at WM 30. if he doesn't, he never will and probably shouldn't. Wrestlemania 30 will be the biggest show for at least 10 years, esp. considering that the AE guys will be really old by then. 30 is their last time to ride.

HHH could and should give the rub to a younger guy or do Evolution vs. The Shield if Batista comes back.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm hoping Orton gets a big match at Mania next year. With some luck maybe Ziggler as well.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Did i just see Orton/Austin being mentioned?

:lmao IF and that's a huge IF, IF Austin decided to come back and do one more match, surely they wouldn't waste it on Orton?

Cena, no one else. To be fair not even sure if Punk is big enough to face Austin at this point.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree that Taker - Cena should main event but I honestly think Rock vs Lesnar will main event instead considering. Not all big matches close the show (i.e. Hogan vs the Rock).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The problem is that since WWE has the BIG SIX (Cena & Punk as full timers, Taker/Brock/Rock/HHH as part timers), it's impossible for anybody else to find themselves in a match that's worth more than the WHC at this point. The SHIELD match this year with Sheamus/Orton/Show was probably the 4th biggest match on the show and that's the extent of what anybody outside the WWE's top 6 is getting until at least Wrestlemania XXXI when somebody like Sheamus/Orton/Dolph MAY be able to crack the top 3 matches. It's also why practically everybody in the company bar a few guys are essentially stick in MIDCARD HELL.

Wrestlemania XXX goes off the air as a FULL CIRCLE kind of thing with Taker-Cena kind of like the whole Wrestlemania XX ending. Two of the most loyal company guys perhaps ever that bleed WWE main eventing the biggest show perhaps ever ; needs to happen. Plus the fact that Brock/Rock is more predictable than Cena/Rock II anyways.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> That's a bigger nightmare than being taught charisma by Lance Storm. REMATCHMANIA II, anyone?
> 
> Sorry, COREY.  (rhyming wasn't my intention btw )


Hahaha. Good one.

Idk, Brock/Taker is the only 'big time' match Taker has left imo besides Cena of course, plus it has quite the backstory and hasn't happened in 10 years. Punk/Cena is the obvious go to match when you think of WWE in the PG Era, so I'd love to see them work a Mania main event. They can still top themselves from previous matches too cause they haven't really pulled out a match with major SPOTS, like a potential AA off the top rope or Punk busting out the Pepsi Plunge, possible announce table spots (Shane O'Mac elbow, AA, PILEDRIVER!~), etc. Bryan/Ziggler is the perfect midcard World Title match & that definitely needs to happen on PPV at some point in the next year. Plus the card I put together leaves huge openings for Sheamus, Orton, Show, Shield, Fandango, Cesaro, Henry, etc.

Idk what the hell to do with Rock & Hunter... maybe have them face each other?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The way Ziggler is being booked, if he's in the world title match, it's some pointless match. He's not been given enough time to show his personality, which he needs to REALLY get over not just with us. A face turn may help but it doesn't cure the problem.

I think the only way Taker/Cena isn't the main event is if it's Austin/Punk.. I'd imagine Austin would only come back for the main. I've thought about Cena/Austin but I just feel like the better story is with Punk, being straight edge and all.. Plus, Cena already beat Rock, I don't NEED to watch him beat Austin too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Rock works it's against Brock and nobody else ; he already came out and said that the other day, essentially making Cena/Undertaker a lock in the process. Assuming that those two matches are non-title affairs, you have to wonder what they would do with HHH & Punk. Putting them together makes too much sense, but if you do that match with no title on the line you're risking having your WWE Championship match being the FOURTH biggest match on the fucking card, which would be insane. They're going to have an ace up their sleeve for both men I do believe, maybe HHH has something to do with The SHIELD and Punk challenges ??? for the Championship? That's four AWESOME main events right there (outside of the ridiculously predictable Brock-Rock).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Idk what the hell to do with Rock & Hunter... maybe have them face each other?


Rock vs Orton? Now that nightmare turns into a dream!


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Not sure if anybody's interested but I uploaded the top 50 WCW matches (according to voters at smarkschoice) on dailymotion. Here's the link and the listing in spoilers:



Spoiler: Top 50 WCW matches



DM video page

#1. Wargames: Sting's Squadron (Nikita Koloff/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat/Sting/Barry Windham) vs. Dangerous Alliance (Arn Anderson/Steve Austin/Bobby Eaton/Rick Rude/Larry Zbyszko) - WrestleWar 5/17/92 (2297 points, 24 votes, 4 first-place votes, 3 second-place votes, 1 third-place vote)
#2. Title vs. Mask Match: Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr. - Halloween Havoc 10/26/97 (2278 points, 25 votes, 3 first-place votes, 2 second-place votes, 4 third-place votes)
#3. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble 2/20/89 (2142 points, 23 votes, 2 first-place votes, 6 second-place votes, 2 third-place votes)
#4. 2/3 Falls Match: Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 4/2/89 (2020 points, 22 votes, 6 first-place votes, 4 second-place votes)
#5. I Quit Match: Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - Clash of the Champions IX 11/15/89 (1899 points, 22 votes, 1 second-place vote, 4 third-place votes)
#6. Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton/Stan Lane) vs. Southern Boys (Steve Armstrong/Tracy Smothers) - Great American Bash 7/7/90 (1620 points, 19 votes)
#7. Strap Match: Sting vs. Vader - Superbrawl 2/21/93 (1605 points, 19 votes, 1 first-place vote, 1 second-place vote, 1 third-place vote)
#8. Sting vs. Vader - Great American Bash 7/12/92 (1600 points, 20 votes)
#9. Jushin Liger vs. Brian Pillman - Superbrawl 2/29/92 (1590 points, 22 votes, 1 second-place vote)
#10. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - WrestleWar 5/7/89 (1515 points, 17 votes, 3 first-place votes, 2 second-place votes, 1 third-place vote)
#11. Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk - Great American Bash 7/23/89 (1506 points, 18 votes, 2 second-place votes, 1 third-place vote)
#12. Falls Count Anywhere: Cactus Jack vs. Sting - Beach Blast 6/20/92 (1503 points, 20 votes)
#13. Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis - Bash at the Beach 7/7/96 (1371 points, 16 votes)
#14. Wargames: Brian Pillman/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner/Sting vs. Ric Flair/Sid Vicious/Barry Windham/Larry Zbyszko - WrestleWar 2/24/91 (1366 points, 17 votes)
#15. King of Cable Finals: Sting vs. Vader - Starrcade 12/28/92 (1349 points, 18 votes, 1 third-place vote)
#16. Iron Man Match: Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat - Beach Blast 6/20/92 (1316 points, 16 votes, 1 first-place vote, 1 second-place vote)
#17. Owen Hart Tribute Match: Chris Benoit vs. Bret Hart - Nitro 10/4/99 (1255 points, 15 votes, 1 third-place vote)
#18. Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon - World War III 11/24/96 (1236 points, 17 votes)
#19. Bunkhouse Match: Bunkhouse Buck vs. Dustin Rhodes - Spring Stampede 4/17/94 (1207 points, 17 votes, 1 first-place vote)
#20. Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko vs. Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions XVII 11/19/91 (1185 points, 15 votes, 1 second-place vote)
#21. Street Fight: Nasty Boys (Brian Knobbs/Jerry Sags) vs. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne - Spring Stampede 4/17/94 (1120 points, 15 votes)
#22. Wargames: Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/Nasty Boys (Brian Knobbs/Jerry Sags) vs. Arn Anderson/Bunkhouse Buck/Terry Funk/Col. Rob Parker - Fall Brawl 9/18/94 (1079 points, 13 votes, 1 first-place vote, 1 third-place vote)
#23. Lex Luger/Sting vs. Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner - Superbrawl 5/19/91 (1074 points, 15 votes)
#24. Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger - Starrcade 12/26/88 (1073 points, 12 votes)
#25. Steven Regal vs. Larry Zbyszko - Saturday Night 5/28/94 (1064 points, 14 votes, 1 first-place vote)
#26. Dustin Rhodes vs. Vader - Clash of the Champions XXIX 11/16/94 (1062 points, 15 votes)
#27. No DQ Match: Nasty Boys (Brian Knobbs/Jerry Sags) vs. Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan - Slamboree 5/22/94 (1025 points, 13 votes)
#28. Barry Windham vs. Too Cold Scorpio - Clash of the Champions XXIII 6/17/93 (1005 points, 16 votes)
#29. Dean Malenko vs. Ultimo Dragon - Starrcade 12/29/96 (1000 points, 16 votes)
#30. Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger - WrestleWar 2/25/90 (971 points, 13 votes, 1 third-place vote)
#31. Lex Luger vs. Ricky Steamboat - Great American Bash 7/23/89 (957 points, 14 votes)
#32. Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham vs. Steve Austin/Larry Zbyszko - Superbrawl 2/29/92 (940 points, 15 votes, 1 third-place vote)
#33. Terry Funk vs. Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VII 6/14/89 (894 points, 13 votes)
#34. Shane Douglas/Ricky Steamboat vs. Brian Pillman/Barry Windham - Starrcade 12/28/92 (888 points, 14 votes)
#35. Fit Finlay vs. Steven Regal - Uncensored 3/24/96 (887 points, 14 votes)
#36. 2/3 Falls Match: Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko vs. Nikita Koloff/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 5/23/92 (886 points, 10 votes, 1 first-place vote, 1 third-place vote)
#37. Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner vs. Terry Gordy/Steve Williams - Clash of the Champions XIX 6/16/92 (868 points, 14 votes)
#38. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Goldberg - Halloween Havoc 10/25/98 (858 points, 14 votes)
#39. Street Fight: Arn Anderson/Barry Windham vs. Doom (Butch Reed/Ron Simmons) - Starrcade 12/16/90 (809 points, 13 votes, 1 third-place vote)
#40. The Boss vs. Vader - Spring Stampede 4/17/94 (808 points, 12 votes, 1 third-place vote)
#41. Submit or Surrender Match: Cactus Jack vs. Sting - Worldwide 11/9/91 (793 points, 13 votes)
#42. Ron Simmons vs. Vader - Baltimore, MD 8/2/92 (791 points, 12 votes)
#43. Chris Benoit/Biff Wellington vs. Jushin Liger/Brian Pillman - Clash of the Champions XIX 6/16/92 (777 points, 15 votes)
#44. Falls Count Anywhere Match: Chris Benoit vs. Kevin Sullivan - Great American Bash 6/16/96 (727 points, 11 votes)
#45. Nasty Boys (Brian Knobbs/Jerry Sags) vs. Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner - Halloween Havoc 10/27/90 (672 points, 9 votes, 1 second-place vote)
#46. Eddy Guerrero vs. Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 9/14/97 (626 points, 10 votes)
#47. Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - Landover, MD 3/18/89 (626 points, 7 votes)
#48. Johnny B. Badd vs. Brian Pillman - Fall Brawl 9/17/95 (602 points, 10 votes)
#49. Midnight Express (Bobby Eaton/Stan Lane) vs. Rock & Roll Express (Robert Gibson/Ricky Morton) - WrestleWar 2/25/90 (588 points, 8 votes)
#50. Chris Benoit vs. Eddy Guerrero - Nitro 10/16/95 (586 points, 10 votes)


I also have quite a few classic WWF 2000/2001 matches on there.


----------



## COPkilla (May 20, 2010)

War Games set should be a dandy.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> If Rock works it's against Brock and nobody else ; he already came out and said that the other day, essentially making Cena/Undertaker a lock in the process. Assuming that those two matches are non-title affairs, you have to wonder what they would do with HHH & Punk. Putting them together makes too much sense, but if you do that match with no title on the line you're risking having your WWE Championship match being the FOURTH biggest match on the fucking card, which would be insane. They're going to have an ace up their sleeve for both men I do believe, maybe HHH has something to do with The SHIELD and Punk challenges ??? for the Championship? That's four AWESOME main events right there (outside of the ridiculously predictable Brock-Rock).



Or Brock could possibly win the WWE title and defend, beat the rock at Mania.. Wasn't he promised a title run?

Now, I don't want to see him with the title at mania facing the rock but it is possible.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Rock vs Orton? Now that nightmare turns into a dream!


Oh shit! Not a bad idea there... Add that to my 3 and call it a day! 

Trips vs. HENRY


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Rock vs Orton? Now that nightmare turns into a dream!


I would say that Orton vs Barrett XXI is more likely at this point .

If we're talking DREAM matches, then we're talking WWE Champion TRIPLE H vs Royal Rumble Winner CM PUNK.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What's the MOTY, so far? I would go with punk/Taker.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> Not sure if anybody's interested but I uploaded the top 50 WCW matches (according to voters at smarkschoice) on dailymotion. Here's the link and the listing in spoilers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great list man! Sure to check it out..


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I would say that Orton vs Barrett XXI is more likely at this point .
> 
> If we're talking DREAM matches, then we're talking WWE Champion TRIPLE H vs Royal Rumble Winner CM PUNK.


Nah, I'm not worried about that. Barrett is a full-on jobber now and Orton has already reached that low point in his career where he would repeatedly lose to him clean. Fuck, that was some dark times although we're still in the dark days until Orton gets back on top!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Rock vs Orton? Now that nightmare turns into a dream!


This plz. :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'd rather see ROCK vs Orton than Rock vs Lesnar. The battle of the 3rd generation superstars with Orton finally get a big Wrestlemania moment. Match quality may not be great but at least the feud and moments will be awesome. If this match happened in 2004 (a prime ROCK vs the legend killer) then it would have been even better but Rocky had to leave


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Rock Vs Ziggler?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Triple H/Ziggler
Rock/Orton
Taker/Cena
Brock/Punk

That sounds good to me but has no real chance of happening.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Rock Vs Ziggler?


:lol

Not sure if you're serious.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> :lol
> 
> Not sure if you're serious.


I never said it gonna happen.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The selling from Ziggler would be amazing especially since he'd have to fill the gaps when Rock gets gassed out


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock Vs Orton is something I could get behind for sure. I don't give a fuck about either man right now, so might as well throw em together! 

Rock Vs Brock would only interest me for the sole reason that Rock would (hopefully) get utterly destroyed. Only problem is I wouldn't in any way buy a comeback from Rock during the match. Rock against ULTIMATE FIGHTER BROCK wouldn't and shouldn't stand a chance. HHH and Cena have more credibility in fights and brawls in WWE so they were able to do it (well, kinda lol).

Anyway, enough fucking talk of WM 30. That's a year away. I'm more concerned with current shit. Mainly with how shit a lot of it is and how I hope they can change by Payback. Get Ryback the fuck out of the main event scene. Give Ziggler an opponent not named Del Rio, Orton or Swagger. Split Team Hell No up and let Bryan loose to put on great matches with anyone and everyone. Give some good direction to guys like Sheamus, Henry and Punk (Seriously, they went with RYBACK Vs Cena over fucking HENRY Vs Cena? I'm all for Henry Vs Sheamus, but come on!). Have THE SHIELD do more than just randomly attack people. Winning the tag titles will be a start I guess. The roster right now has a TON of potential, and with rumours of some FCW guys being brought up, things could be even better. They just need to fucking use everyone right. It doesn't seem like bloody rocket science, but as we all know, talent and ability mean FUCK ALL. It all depends on how much Vince and co like you. Which is fucking bullshit, but it is how it is unfortunately.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'd be happy if Wrestlemania XXX consisted of something along the lines of:

The Rock vs Brock Lesnar

John Cena vs The Undertaker

CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan for the WWE title.

Happy days.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> I'd be happy if Wrestlemania XXX consisted of something along the lines of:
> 
> The Rock vs Brock Lesnar
> 
> ...


And Trips vs Austin :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Spoiler: for Smackdown taping



Chris Brooker mentioned its gonna be Dean Ambrose Vs The Undertaker at the SmackDown Tapings



Saw that on another forum :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

IF YOU WANNA WATCH SD UNSPOILED, DONT OPEN UP. IF YOU'VE READ ZEP'S SPOILER AND DON'T BELIEVE, OPEN UP.



Spoiler: DONT LOOK IF YOU WANNA WATCH SD UNSPOILED


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

I don't get why Orton isn't in the Main Event picture, he's got the Looks, Charisma, In ring ability, and he's young, etc.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> I don't get why Orton isn't in the Main Event picture, he's got the Looks, Charisma, In ring ability, and he's young, etc.


Wellness policy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

SD.

:mark:

That shit better fucking air.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Guys it didn't air. Nodq said it was after the smackdown tapings


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Im a Rock and Orton fan but the Rock is gonna destroy Orton on the mic unless they stop the stupid robot viper shit


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Peeps at the show said the commentators were still out there for it and the dark part was all the stuff that happened after. I'll be sorely disappointed if it doesn't air.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Peeps at the show said the commentators were still out there for it and the dark part was all the stuff that happened after. I'll be sorely disappointed if it doesn't air.


I was told on another forum it was televised


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Just re-watched Beniot & Angle Vs Edge and Rey (No Mercy 2002). Holy SHIT!!! That was one of THE best tag matches I've seen in my life. ****1/2. Hell, maybe even a ***** match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Missed all the Mania 30 talk, but I will say this: Two part timers should NOT main event the show. It's one thing with just one like Rock/Cena. But Brock/Rock is a special attraction, and Cena/Taker must go one last, if that match happens. 

I'm still standing by what I said earlier about Taker maybe starting his retirement tour and packing it in at WM 30. Cena ending the streak will no doubt leave a sour taste, but we'll see how that goes. 

Anyone not named Rock/Cena/Brock/Undertaker/Punk/Game (maybe Game) is nowhere near the main event. Mania 30 may not be much different than 29.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Just watched the Foley blu ray, pretty good but quite a portion had already been covered in his book. MR SOCKO was worth the money though. Gonna get it signed on Thursday.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Can I get a list of some good (***+) matches from RAW in 2004? Trying to catch up on some missed wrestling.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)*
5-0 in the win-loss column and 5 out of 5 in putting on good matches. Shield = best thing going right now. Was great to see Taker in the ring again. Dude has a presence unlike any other and he looked sharp between the ropes, just like he did at Mania. He more than still has it. Star of the match was Seth Rollins though. He was fantastic with his bumping, particular in the exchange with Bryan where he took three nutty bumps in quick succession. Those two going one on one for 10+ minutes would be a hell of a match. Back to this match. I liked it a lot and would put it above Shield's WM bout and their other Raw tag against Jericho and friends. The finish was weak but that's my only real complaint. Really good stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MY HEAD IS ABOUT TO FUCKING EXPLODE.

JUST READ THE SMACKDOWN SPOILERS.

OH MY FUCKING GOD OH MY FUCKING GOD OH MY FUCKING GOD.

:mark: :mark: :mark:

I FEEL LIKE A LITTLE GIRL.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Shawn Michaels' promo before his match at Mind Games :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> MY HEAD IS ABOUT TO FUCKING EXPLODE.
> 
> JUST READ THE SMACKDOWN SPOILERS.
> 
> ...


I read it b/c of your post and there are like four/five matches on the show I want to see. I'll have to tape that shit because I'm out of the state this week, but on paper it looks SWEEEEEEEEEEET.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Can I get a list of some good (***+) matches from RAW in 2004? Trying to catch up on some missed wrestling.


Evoultion Vs Shleton Benjamin, Michaels, Beniot, and Foley. 
Chris Beniot Vs Shawn Michaels. Feb. 16, 2004.
Evoultion Vs Beniot, Edge, and Jericho. 
Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Beniot. May 3, 2004.
Lita Vs Trish (Womens Championship).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smackdown this week looks really interesting.



> Can I get a list of some good (***+) matches from RAW in 2004? Trying to catch up on some missed wrestling.


Too tired to list stuff but have a look through profightdb and 90% of the matches involving Randy Orton or Chris Benoit are guaranteed to be great.

I really recommend Orton vs Edge from 13/12 and Orton vs RVD from 12/1.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> *Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)*
> 5-0 in the win-loss column and 5 out of 5 in putting on good matches. Shield = best thing going right now. Was great to see Taker in the ring again. Dude has a presence unlike any other and he looked sharp between the ropes, just like he did at Mania. He more than still has it. Star of the match was Seth Rollins though. He was fantastic with his bumping, particular in the exchange with Bryan where he took three nutty bumps in quick succession. Those two going one on one for 10+ minutes would be a hell of a match. Back to this match. I liked it a lot and would put it above Shield's WM bout and their other Raw tag against Jericho and friends. The finish was weak but that's my only real complaint. Really good stuff.


Agreed, Taker on Raw truly felt special, and The Shield continue to be booked extremely well. Rollins was truly the standout of the match, and I'm becoming more and more a fan of his every time I watch him perform. Guy is like a better Jeff Hardy. Would absolutely love a PPV match between him and Bryan.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Smackdown with the Undertaker in singles competition and it being better than Raw... is this 2009!?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Seriously, Smackdown sounds fucking awesome.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Undertaker/HellNo vs The Shield Six Man Tag RAW (4/22/13) ****

Really looking forward to that In Your House release.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)*
Wow. I loved this. Story of the match is built around Swagger's injured arm and his ankle lock, and Del Rio's injured leg and his cross-armbreaker. They work it brilliantly with constant limb work, great selling, neat counters and sequences involving the injured body parts, and a good pace. They both know each other's weakness and look for openings to take advantage of that over and over again. Some of the spots are really great too. One that stuck out to me was Swagger clattering into Del Rio's bad leg when ADR went airborne. The ankle lock/armbreaker transitions were smooth and the finish was good. Despite all the limb work neither man was able to gain control and apply the killer hold so a roll up was an appropriate end. I liked their Wrestlemania match but this was on a completely different level. Saw a few people mention it in here but more of you guys need to watch it. Great match.

MOTY list:

1. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
2. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
3. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
4. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
5. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
6. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
7. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield (Raw 4/22/13)
8. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
9. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
10. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
11. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I actually think I could make a top 10 matches of the year so far now:

1) Taker/Punk WM29
2) Taker-Bryan-Kane/The Shield Raw 4/22/13
3) Jericho-Ryback-Sheamus/The Shield Raw 2/18/13
4) Punk/Cena Raw 2/25/13
5) Henry/Swagger/Orton/Jericho/Kane/Bryan EC
6) Punk/Jericho Raw 2/4/13
7) Bryan/Jericho Raw 2/11/13
8) Punk/Ryback Raw 1/7/13
9) Cena-Ryback-Sheamus/The Shield EC
10) Orton-Sheamus-Show/The Shield WM29


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Will have to check ADR/Swagger from SD now that St Dick has pimped it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Heard some great things about Del Rio/Swagger, but it's going to be difficult to bring myself to watch it considering who's competing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I'm not a fan of either of them, but I'll still give it a watch if it's considered a MOTYC.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> Heard some great things about Del Rio/Swagger, but it's going to be difficult to bring myself to watch it considering who's competing.


I thought the same thing. I like Del Rio a fair bit but I'm not into Swagger at all. They surprised the hell out of me though. Match gets plenty time and I'm a sucker for focused limb work and consistent selling. This had both in abundance.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

fucking AMBROSE :taker


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah I'm not a fan of either of them, but I'll still give it a watch if it's considered a MOTYC.


I wouldn't exactly call it a MOTYC but I thought it was really fucking good. For the benefit of star users I'd probably throw ***3/4 at it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Trying to pimp out Del/Swagger from last week and HBK/foley from mindgames :mark, anybody got a link to the team hell no/taker vs shield match from last nite, was doing homework and wasn't paying attention


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Trying to pimp out Del/Swagger from last week and HBK/foley from mindgames :mark, anybody got a link to the team hell no/taker vs shield match from last nite, was doing homework and wasn't paying attention


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aywHh5wmUes


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just started watch HBK/Foley mg :lmao:lmao @HBK promo damn he was high


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Everyone should definitely watch Del Rio v. Swagger. I love me some limb work, but not a crap ton of guys find really interesting ways to work a limb. Swaggie totally did and I fucking LOVED the spot where Del Rio went to jump off the second rope and Swagger shoulder-tackled his leg whilst he was in mid-air. I haven't watched the Show/Del Rio LMS, but Swagger/Del Rio is the best SmackDown match I think has happened in months and months. Maybe since Punk/Bryan, but hell I'm not even sure I like that as much. Maybe since Henry/Bryan. Anything I'm forgetting?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Everyone should definitely watch Del Rio v. Swagger. I love me some limb work, but not a crap ton of guys find really interesting ways to work a limb. Swaggie totally did and I fucking LOVED the spot where Del Rio went to jump off the second rope and Swagger shoulder-tackled his leg whilst he was in mid-air. I haven't watched the Show/Del Rio LMS, but Swagger/Del Rio is the best SmackDown match I think has happened in months and months. Maybe since Punk/Bryan, but hell I'm not even sure I like that as much. Maybe since Henry/Bryan. Anything I'm forgetting?


Sheamus/Orton.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah I'm not a fan of either of them, but I'll still give it a watch if it's considered a MOTYC.


Meh, maybe I'll give it a watch tomorrow or sometime this week. If it's THAT great, suppose I gotta see it. Even though I'm not a fan of either of them I recognize their in-ring abilities and I suppose I know the potential they have even if they didn't live up to the potential at Mania.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*HBK/Mankind mindgames 96*
Great match, it just kept getting better and better and better,character work is great with Shawn showing his mean streak and Foley showing his crazy odd mankind side.The finish is a let down, but finshes don't tend to affect my ratings of matches or liking.* ****3/4* and seriously contemplating throwing Dat 5*. Great match


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I need to get around to watching the new Mick Foley DVD. It looks awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Having more fun with Nitro Vol. 2 than I did with the first edition.

I fucking LOVE DDP.

:lol @ Nash in this promo ; YOU CAN STICK TO LIMO FLYIN, LIMO DRIVIN (Pauses), LEER JET.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Everyone should definitely watch Del Rio v. Swagger. I love me some limb work, but not a crap ton of guys find really interesting ways to work a limb. Swaggie totally did and I fucking LOVED the spot where Del Rio went to jump off the second rope and Swagger shoulder-tackled his leg whilst he was in mid-air. I haven't watched the Show/Del Rio LMS, but Swagger/Del Rio is the best SmackDown match I think has happened in months and months. Maybe since Punk/Bryan, but hell I'm not even sure I like that as much. Maybe since Henry/Bryan. Anything I'm forgetting?


Glad you liked it. And yeah, that's the spot I was talking about. I'm right there with you on it being the best Smackdown match in a while and easily Swagger's best match since his series with Christian (unless I'm forgetting something but I doubt it).

*HayleySabin* I think you'll enjoy it. Reminded me a bit of that Ziggler/Masters match you love in terms of two guys focusing on locking in their submission finishers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I fucking ADORE The Steiners vs The Road Warriors from 3/11/96.

The Steiners really got the best out of LOD by keeping things simple and just dishing out some of the punishment that LOD loves to distribute in the first place. Legitimately might be the best standard 2 on 2 Road Warriors match that I've ever seen as it's just two tough as fuck teams beating the piss out of one another.

Disc One featured four good matches in the ** - ** 3/4 range and three great matches in the *** - *** 3/4 range, loving the DVD so far man.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I second the love for Steiners vs The Road Warriors from 3/11/96. I was doing a project involving watching all the Nitros starting from the first episode, but I stopped at April of 96 partly because of how awful Nitro was back then. This match was one of the few gems in that timeframe.

Two matches that I would put above Swagger/Rio from Smackdown that happened last year are Orton/Sheamus before OTL and the Punk/Kane WWE title match. Both of those hidden gems are so under-appreciated even considering the people in those two matches.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Finally bought the Raw Top 100 Moments DVD. Was okay but the list was kinda shit. There were some moments on there that had no business being in the top 100. Plus the order sucked. Just expected something better, might end up selling the DVD back. Should have bought the Best of Nitro Vol. 2 instead. Anyone else had that yet, is it any good?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Two matches that I would put above Swagger/Rio from Smackdown that happened last year are Orton/Sheamus before OTL and the Punk/Kane WWE title match. Both of those hidden gems are so under-appreciated even considering the people in those two matches.


Never seen the Punk/Kane title match. Might watch it tonight if I can find it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Dexter Morgan said:


> Finally bought the Raw Top 100 Moments DVD. Was okay but the list was kinda shit. There were some moments on there that had no business being in the top 100. Plus the order sucked. Just expected something better, might end up selling the DVD back. Should have bought the Best of Nitro Vol. 2 instead. Anyone else had that yet, is it any good?


Watched this one on Netflix. Was so disgusted at some of the things that were that low, and some of the things that were there to begin with. Can't believe Lesnar's return wasn't a top 30-40 moment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The whole list is fucked up.

TEA TIME WITH SANTINO IS ON THE FUCKING LIST!

& IT'S ONLY ONE SPOT LOWER THAN EVOLUTION TURNING ON RANDY ORTON!


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> The whole list is fucked up.
> 
> TEA TIME WITH SANTINO IS ON THE FUCKING LIST!
> 
> & IT'S ONLY ONE SPOT LOWER THAN EVOLUTION TURNING ON RANDY ORTON!


Yeah I turned it off about that spot.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I bought the dvd and mostly enjoyed it. Some of the countdown sucks but it was still fun to watch. I also like having Raw 1000 on dvd.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If ANYTHING involving Santino made that list it should've been the Price is RAW segment with Bob Barker. I fucking loved that. "One thousand, four hundred sixty five American style dollars." *throws arms up in excitement* :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Glad you liked it. And yeah, that's the spot I was talking about. I'm right there with you on it being the best Smackdown match in a while and easily Swagger's best match since his series with Christian (unless I'm forgetting something but I doubt it).


There's a really great Rey v. Swagger on the 6/11/10 SD, that might be better. I might the like the Vengeance 2011 opener more as well. Key word is 'might' on both sentences.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So many things wrong with that. First off, Trips/Taker staredown on 2/21/11 was NUMBER 100. Here are the moments ranked HIGHER

Tea time with Santino
Goldust giving Ahmed mouth to mouth
Sheamus putting Mark Cuban through a table, 
Howard Finkel vs Harvey Whippleman in a Tuxedo match
Snitsky punts a baby
SETH FUCKING GREEN

Now that I go back and look, there was a ton of shit that happened on Raw, but the above things can fuck off.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody wanna talk about SCOTT STEINER as a singles competitor outside of the WWE? During his superman heel push in 00-01 I pretty much loved everything he did, and his TNA Schtick was actually pretty damn good at times as well. I have no fucking idea why he was a babyface in the WWE as they basically set him up for failure immediately because of the WWE main event style with the whole "BABYFACE COMEBACK" ideal not tailor fitting Steiner in the slightest. THAT, and he was still injured as fuck which kind of explains why his matches were so atrocious but let's be real here ; being a babyface against the likes of HHH in 2003, Test, and a green Batista isn't going to do fuck all for you.

One of my all time favorites due to the Steiner Brother's being the greatest North American tag team ever (for me anyways) added on to the fact that he's such a fucking loose cannon and actually a really good worker when no limitations are imposed on him.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

GOAT. Oh, and he wrestled, too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I might watch a bunch of random Scott Steiner singles right now for the hell for it. I've never really loved either Steiner as singles wrestlers, but I'm curious what I can find.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If you despise Stevie Ray like I do, you'll take great pleasure in watching SCOTT STEINER remove him from WCW permanently .

OH & who can go wrong with Goldberg's 2nd Greatest match ever @ Fall Brawl?


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> The whole list is fucked up.
> 
> TEA TIME WITH SANTINO IS ON THE FUCKING LIST!
> 
> & IT'S ONLY ONE SPOT LOWER THAN EVOLUTION TURNING ON RANDY ORTON!


:lmao that was my exact reaction.

I got the Blu-Ray for a good deal kept it solely because it has RAW 1000 included.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Santino's debut is on the list as well :lol.

Mother fuckers LOVE Santino.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> OH & who can go wrong with Goldberg's 2nd Greatest match ever @ Fall Brawl?


I didn't love the Goldberg match, but I did enjoy it.

Going on stream sites and watching random wrestling matches that I have never heard of is maybe my favourite thing to do in life, so yeah, some STEINER~~~

Big Booty DADDEH v. Booker T (Raw 3/3/03)
Was Steiner a heel here? This was right after NWO where he had the second match with HHH while laying babyface. IDK he kind of looked heel here. The dickish poses, getting up after a pin attempt and doing push-ups, facing babyface Booker T, yeah I'mma say he was a heel here. The chops in this were pretty gnarly; every one of them made a pretty loud sound and didn't look fun to take. Moments like Steiner catching Booker during a spin kick and kind of 'dropping' him, and then pretty much just running into Book during the spinaroonie made this bizarrely amusing. Booker goes for the 'Jack Brisco' roll-up to win and Steiner botches the shit out of it (when all he had to do was fall backwards at the right time), but Booker wins with it anyway. Well, he wins with some form of 'it'. I have no idea if this was good or bad, but it's probably better than all of HHH's TV matches around this time. 

Big Booty DADDEH v. Mike Awesome (Thunder 6/28/00)
Steiner beating the piss out of Awesome during the 'walk and brawl around the crowd' stuff was fun, but this wasn't too good. Were there, like, rules in this? AT ALL? Steiner throws an announce table chair at Awesome and almost collects a fan, Awesome gives Steiner a low blow which I think was right in front of the ref, and there seems to be no count outs. Then commissioner Ernest Motherfucking Miller stops Steiner from using the recliner because THAT of all things is banned. Miller then the ref in the mouth and gently sweeps Steiner's head with the US belt. IDK what to make of this.

Big Booty DADDEH v. Christian (Raw 2/23/03)
Always down for some Christian. Christian's working heel and this is only a couple of weeks after the Booker match, so I guess Steiner wasn't heel in the Booker match? This is almost a Steiner squash and in some ways it felt too long, but overall it was OK. Christian loses a collar/elbow tie up and flings himself outside the ropes to sell Steiner's massiveness. Christian rules. He takes some good bumps off suplexes and what I'm assuming was MEANT to be a suplex. He taunts Steiner's arm-flex and threatens to beat the ref when a foot-on-the-rope pinfall doesn't get counted as three. I'm really glad Christian cut a lot of the 'drop-down' offense that he had during this time in later years, or at the very least made it seem less contrived. Looks backyard-y. If only he gave the same advice to Edge.

Big Booty DADDEH v. Bill Goldberg (Nitro 7/18/00)
I should watch a bunch of Golbderg because I am convinced the guy was a good wrestler. He's not a wrestler who can do anything and everything, but he was called on to be the squash monster babyface who does impressive power spots and makes every moment seem big and goddamn it he did just that. He can be a very good short term seller too, even a little thing like the sell of a stomp-kick thingy looked better than your average sell of a stomp-kick thingy. His power spots here were great; a super looking butterfly suplex, an amazing running shoulder block where he continued to sell the after-effects of a suplex, etc. The part near the beginning where he runs after Steiner and Steiner dodges, leaving Goldberg to quickly grab the ropes so he doesn't run himself into the turnbuckle was completely awesome and felt like a huge moment. Steiner does a fine job here and hits some really nice looking forearms to start the match, but I came away from this thinking I should watch more Goldberg. This is 2000 WCW, it has a shitty finish and shitty booking (Miller was referee, Booker came out, Nash came out...I turned the video off), but the match was fun as hell. Will somebody fucking tell me why Bill Goldberg isn't a good wrestler? He doesn't do everything perfectly, has his flaws, isn't the best at filling time, and I'm not suggesting he belongs in the discussion of best wrestlers, but there are so many 'Goldberg sucks' people that I'm starting to wonder if they've even watched any Goldberg.

Big Booty DADDEH v. Chuck Palumbo (Thunder- sometime, IDK)
Wow, Palumbo had really good looking offense here; sweet looking punches and a great dropkick. I don't remember thinking he was ever this good. I mean he was green here and seemed to not really be able to piece a good match together, but he looked like the kind of guy that just needed more experience. Holy shit I should REAALLLLLLY look at his series with Matt Hardy and Jamie Noble then. Fuck those could be AWESOME. I kind of drifted off whenever Steiner was in control of this one. He started the match on the mat with Chuck hitting some really good looking elbows to the side of the head, but nothing much else he did here was worth a shit. I'm starting to notice Scotty starts the match doing something really cool and then kind of doesn't.

Big Booty DADDEH v. Evan Karagias (Nitro 9/7/98)
Steiner squash. Karagias bumps and sells well. Goes about ninety seconds. Yeah1993?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YEAH1993.

Oh man, there's nothing better than typing in a random name on some video website and seeing some random matches pop up. I did that with Cena for like 15-20 matches with ease until I said "HEY, I'm going to make a project out of this!".

A project that I finished yesterday, I'm just too lazy to do a write-up .


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

If you take the top 100 moments as just a slideshow of awesome raw moments and not a countdown as such its really enjoyable. NOSTALGIA~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of Cena, here's a forgotten gem from last year:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't love the Goldberg match, but I did enjoy it.
> 
> Going on stream sites and watching random wrestling matches that I have never heard of is maybe my favourite thing to do in life, so yeah, some STEINER~~~
> 
> ...


Watch more Goldberg and post about it. I'm convinced it will be entertaining (your post that is, most likely the matches too in one way or another).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll be out of state and won't have access to my computer for the next few days, but I will at an auntie's house and I should get youtube access there for at least a little while. I will probably watch a bunch of Goldberg. I did say I was in a squash match mood the other day/week and I was impressed with Goldberg in the Steiner match, so I'll probably love the shit out of this stuff.

Opinion on Goldberg?


EDIT: I actually watched a bunch of Mark Henry the other month and wrote some shit and didn't post it here. I DOES NOW:


Spoiler: HENRYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Mark Henry/Faarooq v Christian/Test (WWF Jakked 5/18/02)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrwM6CiFZ1I
Final episode of Jakked and holy shit Mark looks like an absolute badass. He has these inhumanly big calf muscles and that incredible dreadlock tarzan-like hair; looks as if he comes straight from a 1990s arcade fighting game. He plays a pretty cool Fat Goldberg for a few minutes here, except instead of spears and suplex variations he's throwing guys out of the ring and gorilla pressing them. So, Fat Ultimate Warrior, then. Christian looked really good even here for the short time this got. He really goes full-flat-bodied when going downwards for a gorilla press, like he's doing a little frog splash on nobody. Shitty ass Godfather interferes at the end. I hate the shitty ass Godfather.

Mark Henry v Kurt Angle (SmackDown 7/25/02)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT80wfcasJM
Don't know why I never noticed the slight resemblance between Stephanie McMahon and Leah Remini, but I got that here in the little opening video. This match was really cool and if there wasn't a run-in DQ at the end it could have really boiled down to a good match. It was basically Angle doing an Olympic version of Ric Flair, where the main event guy is dominated by the much stronger and FATTER babyface and no matter whhis own back and he only managed to pull off one suplex successfully. If this was a full match they could have thrown in some Angle cheating, Henry's Fat Ultimate Warrior comeback, any kind of finish and it would have been pretty damn good. Also, there is a German suplex attempt in here that would make an IWC-famous .GIF. C'mon Kurt, there's trying to suplex a man and then there's blatantly trying to fuck one.

Mark Henry/Rodney Mack v Goldust/Lance Storm (Raw 9/15/03)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpa0ka ... SXvu6UziSo
Storm is boring. Like, I guess it's sort of a cliche and/or gimmicky to say that at this point, but he's such the standard crappy-indy wrestler that I just never want to see him again. The fact he had a good match with 2002 HHH is an absolute and total miracle. Henry got like 40 seconds in this and he was fucking great. Storm has his boring time of boringness and Henry clubs the SHIT out of him from behind the ropes. Then after getting tagged in he just massacres him until a poor excuse for a hot tag takes place. Dustin's one of the best House O' Fire sort of wrestlers ever though, so he know how to make up for it. They have a good few seconds here, but it's just that - a few seconds. Face Goldust v Heel Mark Henry could be legit great. Give me more 2003 Mark Henry, you could convince me he was the best wrestler on the Raw brand that year. Legit. Not saying too much because Raw in 2003 is like the worst period in the history of the company, but Henry just ruled that year. I'm not only basing that off of this, btw.

Mark Henry Destroying In The Arnold Strongman Classic 2/23/02
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-9MERTKKo
****3/4

Mark Henry/Rodney Mack v Garrison Cade/Mark Jindrak (Raw 8/25/03)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpfwq7 ... SZ5SaUziSo
Nothing really happens until Henry gets in. Then he storms his way into everybody, throws people out of the universe and hits a pretty great kick to the gut. Too short to be anything.

Mark Henry v Lance Storm (SmackDown 6/27/02)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdib7m ... SZ7a6UziSo
This is too short as well, but I'm glad I found a singles match and I'm not sure I'd want to watch more than a few minutes of Lance Storm anyway. I actually kind of admire what they trying to do with Henry at this point in time. Got a record-breaking weight-lifter? Naturally the kind of guy Vince would want to give SOME kind of babyface push, with video packages and things. It just didn't work, and he isn't all that suited for that role. And him losing clean to Lance Storm doesn't do anybody favours either. I wouldn't have minded it had it been a good match, but Storm is just so focused on I Don't Know What that it couldn't be. Realistically he made all of Henry's big moves look big at the time. Henry throwing Storm from the outside over the top ropes, Storm clubbed from the top turnbuckle, the massive shoulder block that wasn't a shoulder block...those all felt big. Storm not selling any damage from the strongest man in the world just doesn't feel right, and moments like him taking the WSS and literally not selling a single bit of it when getting up and dodging the Vader is why I don't want to watch him. Even if it wasn't the WSS at that point, you're taking a slam from the strongest guy in the world....react SOMEHOW afterwards.

Mark Henry/Randy Orton v D-Von/Batista (SmackDown 7/11/02)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs3abl ... SZ_aqUziSo
Orton took a pretty unique bump in this. He launched himself over the turnbuckle so his abdominal hit the top of the ringpost and then he kind of just slid downwards. I don't remember seeing it done like that before. This was OK, Henry powering through bitches was the best part, and Batista looking like a monster being able to pick up Henry with less effort than a normal man was pretty cool. He did that Finlay-like rolling firemen thing and when he wound up on top he sort of actually BOUNCED off of Henry.

Mark Henry/Rikishi v Los Guerreros (SmackDown 10/3/02)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs5xs2 ... SaAlqUziSo
This could not possibly suck and I loved the four or five minutes we got. I was sort of expecting this to be a Four Horsemen v Jobbers deal where los Guerreros get chucked around by the babyfaces, but the fact I got los Guerreros working over Mark Henry's leg just makes me happy I as wrong. The Horsemen v Jobbers stuff actually happen early on, and it was great. Eddie spends a half a minute teasing that he's going to go into Rikishi's ass and trying to desperately avoid it. Once Henry got his wheel chopped, they worked it over for the whole match and cheating on practically everything. I loved where Eddie couldn't pull Henry back toward the middle of the ring so he had to call Chavo in just to help do that. They do a chair spot at the end and Eddie managing to pull off the Lasso on Mark was impressive. Really fun.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

To anyone who has seen Jimmy Garvin vs Ric Flair in the cage at the Bash 87, what are your thoughts? 

Watched it last night, just watched the finishing stretch again, and I feel it's up there with some of the best cage matches ever. The perfect Ric Flair, the evil, cocky, arrogant, sinister manipulator who attempts to run out when things aren't going his way, applying fantastic psychology to Garvin's leg, works the match the only way he could. Garvin was no slouch either, but his performance doesn't just claw & drag you in like Flair did. The stakes of the match easily made it one of the most emotional ones. The type of cage match you want to see from this time period, everything on the line, perfect finish. Knew I'd like it given who was involved, but didn't expect this much.

****1/4. Easily a favourite for me.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

YEAH1993


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I have matches downloading and they might take while, so I decided to play my favourite game of 'watch random shit from a wrestler' again. This time I choose CM Punk.


CM Punk v. Vince McMahon (Raw 10/8/12)
Vince does babyface work better than most of the roster. I marked for the announce table dive, I marked for him pushing the announce chair into Punk's nuts, and I popped like a giddy shithead when he tackled Punk at the beginning. It reminded me of Vader v. Dustin Rhodes. None of it seemed out of the realm of possibility, either and I bought that Vince could actually make these sorts of comebacks on Punk. This was the dickhead Punk that won me over in 2010. He gets a cheap shot to start out a match with a 65 year old non-wrestler and fires away at him relentlessly. Maybe it was the shaky video I was watching, but most of everything looked super rough and snug. The kendo stick stuff was really neat, and, again, I BOUGHT IT. I bought that Punk would be hesitant to get back in the ring and keep going. His reactions of sheer disbelief that McMahon wasn't a pile of broken shit on the ground by now were just about the most fitting in this kind of situation. Then he gets a kendo stick of his own and retreats on the KENDO STICK DUEL just to hit a low blow. Low blow was violent-looking, too. The Cena/Ryback finish with Punk bailing with his title made this feel old school. Oh yeah PUNK SAID 'WHAT A MANOUVRE'!!!!!!!! This was spectacular. 

CM Punk v. Randy Orton (Raw 5/5/08)
Holy fuck @ the bump Punk took. Randy pulls the leg with his hand and Punk just jumps back-first toward the floor whilst originally being up-right on the apron. It's the kind of bump people were praising Chris Masters for in 2010. Punk sold the back the entire match, too. The rest of the match was pretty average. Orton's got a good headlock, but he kind of puts it on at odd times and when he isn't doing that he just stomps Punk in random places. Punk was still in his KENTA-rip-off indy moveset period and I have little interest in watching him do that stuff. At the very least in this point in time he wasn't executing them horribly. GM Regal turns the lights off on this one and I can't say I'm disappointed. 

CM Punk v. Matt Hardy (Raw, IDK when. It was a KOTR 2008 Quarter-Final)
Matt was still in his 'One of the Best Wrestlers in the World' period in 2008. He had this really tremendous way of selling moves that I almost can't explain. It didn't look false or like a guy was performing - it looked like Matt Hardy the person was in pain. Punk almost seemed to want to work heel here; he had a neat headlock segment and Hardy was forcing his way upwards as the match went along (it was like six minutes so IDK if 'went along' is the right term). The finish stretch was really well done. Punk's springboard is caught, Hardy attempts the 'side-effect', but Punk turns it into a GTS. THAT'S countered into a really sweet looking roll-up which Punk counters into a pin of his own. Finish stretches where not many finishers are actually hit are finish stretches done right. Protect the goddamn moves by not having people kick out of them too often. If anything this gets me completely fucking amped at watching/re-watching Hardy v. Palumbo, Bourne, MVP, and mostly Finlay and Henry from 2008. 

CM Punk v. Stevie Richards (ECW 2006 Septemuary the 54TH [<<<not real date])
Richards hit some cool stuff and I liked Punk's vocal selling but the main impression this left on me is that Punk should have stopped doing the indy fake-Japanese thing a lot earlier than he did. I can't say he looked particularly BAD (for most of it), but I'm pretty sure I'd rather watch 2013 Heat Slater than 2006 CM Punk. 

CM Punk v. Test (ECW 2006? Commentators mention "Extreme Elimination Chamber", so yeah, 2006)
Test is a guy, who, every time I watch him, I come away with surprised at how good he looks. I remember a six-man or eight-man in 2002 where he bumped like a nut for the Undertaker, and I'm starting to notice he was always kind of good bumper. I liked his semi-weeble-wobble selling. I guess it isn't 'weeble wobble' selling, but it looked like Punk was chopping him down. Test cuts him off with a major clothesline, too. Hell Test's offense in general was good here. Punk was better in this role as it was more of a fight, but he still had that 'Muay Thai/indy whatever' moveset going. Test takes a radical bump flying over the steel steps and Punk jumps him and beats on him until the ref counts them out. Perfectly fine way of spending five minutes.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I should really rewatch Punk/McMahon. Don't recall seeing it apart from not long after it aired. Sounds like a perfect match for me based on the overview. You seen Punk/Lawler in the Cage from Raw? Thought that was a really great dickhead and weasely Punk performance complimented by a spirited yet clearly overwhelmed Lawler. Thought it was about as good as Lawler at his age vs young but gifter performer/character worker could get.

Also, you see the Lawler/Brian Christopher vs Derrick King/Precious tag from June last year? Derrick King is a brilliant heel, Precious is an incredible exotico worker, Lawler looks awesome in every exchange and Christopher is pretty damn good as well. Well worked southern tag with a lot of great moments and little touches I adored. Comfortably one of my favourite matches from last year.


Swagger/Del Rio shall be watched shortly.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I saw every Derrick King match on youtube that still existed in late 2012. Even the clipped ones with the shitty heavy metal music played over it.  Never did see Punk v. Lawler, though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

:mark:

King vs Tucker Last Man Standing was sensational. Basically filmed in what could pass off as a small bible class room and just littered with great punches and authentic use of crowd brawling and using the building to punish the other. Finish was also a great screwjob victory for the heel. One of my favourite indy guys alongside Allmark, Mason and Damian Wayne depending on how much I see of him. Timothy Thatcher also looks quite the prospect in terms of matwork. Should watch the Finlay match from '11 like today.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts and RATINGZ on the Cena/Batista feud?


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Just watched Austin/Steamboat BATB and Austin/Bret SS.

Austin has got to be with a doubt one of the greatest technicians. Seriously. One of the best in-ring performers of his generation. I can't stress enough how sad I am that he got his neck broken in 97 because it didn't only limit his ring work but it limited his wrestling career. An outstanding worker, he could carry matches but boy could he go. I reckon you could put him in three 30 minute matches in a row and he'd still fucking rock it. A pleasure to view in the 90s.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger, Smackdown (4/19/13)*

Don't think this is as good as Del Rio/Show from Smackdown, but its definitely up there with any other TV match from this year. Really smart and consistent utilisation of the dual limb weaknesses by both men to setup numerous transitions and counters and there were a ton of creative ways particularly by Del Rio to highlight his pain. My favourite was probably him grimacing in agony the minute he landed off the leapfrog as well as his sudden knee jerk reaction to the tilt-a-whirl backbreaker to Swagger. Thought the finishing stretch was remarkably well done in terms of ankle lock/cross armbreaker transitions and it helped that both men found ways to pace the submission counters smartly in between other offence. Felt like a big moment when Del Rio finally transitioned into the cross armbreaker smoothly out of the ankle lock and his continous selling of the leg made it feel like a desperation counter rather than an overly choreographed sequence. Swagger's mid air knee clip was a really bossy counter and I loved Del Rio's opportunistic kick to the arm prior to climbing the turnbuckle. Limbwork wasn't forgotten, both men were quick to sell and highlight the limitation of the respective injuries and they timed the finishing sequence smartly in having Del Rio catching Swagger in a flash pin rather than getting lost in a sea of submission counters. Great match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So the folks that really liked Del Rio/Swagger from Smackdown (WOOLCOCK, Yeah, Saint Dick), you weren't bothered at all by Del Rio blowing the selling of the knee and using the backcracker and the armbreaker over the knees? I've seen the match twice now and even my dad says "oh what the hell, what about his hurt knee?" That kind of killed what was going really well for me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The backcracker spot I could have done without truthfully, especially as he transitioned immediately into a pin. Didn't mind the armbreaker attempts as much, since its Del Rio's go to move and given Swagger was targeting the knee relentlessly I could at least excuse Del Rio going for his submission, in spite of the harm it did him if it meant Swagger became further limitated and restricted as a result. His selling generally was very good and conveyed how limited he was typically, hitting the backcracker out of desperation and being too hurt to capitalise would have been a better spot than hitting it with Swagger unable to counter and going straight for a pin, but that's a small complaint that wasn't egregious enough to detract from the largely consistent selling display.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Understandable. I just kinda feel like every match between the two basically has the same premise over and over again. Armbreaker vs. Ankle Lock. The SD match was of course the standout.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally finished watching RVD vs Triple H from Unforgiven 02. Solid match that I'd give ★★★¾. The action only really gets interesting a few minutes into it after that Suicide Dive where HHH moves out of the way (although I don't understand the botch with the 10 count at all) and before that, I liked the part when RVD mocked HHH's water spit. Match really picks up after RVD escapes the Sleeper and makes his comeback. Finish with a bunch of shenanigans could be seen from miles away, specially with the ref intentionally standing in position to take the bump. RVD should have gotten the ball instead of his momentum killed into the tag division with Kane but a great match is great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DEAR GOD. The Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero match on Nitro from 12/21/98 is an absolutely fantastic match that features some really sleazy heel work from Guerrero and some defiant babyface work from Rey in the process. The character work is off the charts with Eddie doing little things such as the subtle tearing of the mask or having a dickish smile on his face while attacking the injured knee of Mysterio. When it comes to Eddie vs Rey I NEVER hear about this match at all and it should be talked about more.

Hell, even though the finish is pretty damn dirty with interference and such, it ends with one of the stiffest looking forearms I've ever fucking seen, FUCK. 

What's up next? Bam Bam vs Scott Hall Taser Ladder Match ...... YAY.

The RVD vs Triple H match from Unforgiven 2002 was a great match. Throw it in there with the underrated HHH matches from the shittiest period in his career such as the Booker match at Wrestlemania and HIAC vs Nash.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> Just watched Austin/Steamboat BATB and Austin/Bret SS.
> 
> Austin has got to be with a doubt one of the greatest technicians. Seriously. One of the best in-ring performers of his generation. I can't stress enough how sad I am that he got his neck broken in 97 because it didn't only limit his ring work but it limited his wrestling career. An outstanding worker, he could carry matches but boy could he go. I reckon you could put him in three 30 minute matches in a row and he'd still fucking rock it. A pleasure to view in the 90s.


I know Clique did a write up of Austin's best matches, including some of his WCW work, been meaning to see if its still on here to check out some of his best WCW matches.

EDIT - @KOK - Looking forward to getting the Nitro Volume 2 DVD, pre-ordered it today, loved Vol1 tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> The RVD vs Triple H match from Unforgiven 2002 was a great match. Throw it in there with the underrated HHH matches from the shittiest period in his career such as the Booker match at Wrestlemania and HIAC vs Nash.


His 2002 wasn't all that terrible, was it? He still had HIAC with Jericho, SummerSlam with HBK, Unforgiven with RVD and the Elimination Chamber for good PPV matches.

Oh and the ★★★★★★★★★★ classic from King of the Ring with the UNDERTAKER.

2003, though... all his PPV matches were subpar or downright crap other than the Booker match which was pretty decent save for the dead crowd. Plus the identity crisis with the awful tights he wore during the Goldberg feud, the colored trunks and goofy clean cut look. Randy Orton as the shy, young kid is the only real great part of Evolution that year. Batista looked like Mason Ryan before Batistwo existed since they let him show ZERO personality. Other than when he called Austin a "fucking coward". :lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH in 02 was nowhere near as bad as HHH in 03, but there were still some duds. The Hogan match at Backlash is awful, and the 2/3 falls with HBK at Armageddon is fun, but a train wreck.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thoughts on Rock/Trips, Strap Match - Fully Loaded 1999?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

He showed flashes of awfulness in 2002 but didn't really go all out until the Armageddon 3SOH match against Michaels which is indeed AWFUL. Then he was pretty much coming out and wrestling shitty tags on a weekly basis and seemed to care more about his physique than anything else, the Steiner matches were laughably bad, the Judgment Day match with Nash was atrocious, and the Goldberg series was BAD. You could say that the level of quality that HHH had in his opponents is a huge factor, but in all honesty when going back and watching the matches ; HHH clearly wasn't right until the match with Shawn in December woke him the fuck up.

SURE the Royal Rumble Last Man Standing match is perhaps one of the worst LMS matches ever, but starting with Mania XX it seemed as if he was wrestling great matches every week up until the DX reunion.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> Thoughts on Rock/Trips, Strap Match - Fully Loaded 1999?


Didn't like it. Thought the stip made for some really stupid shit (why is it a Strap match, yet no DQ so Triple H can just remove the strap with no problem?) and it just meanders around with a bunch of punches thrown all around the arena until some shitty interference in the end. Think I gave it * 3/4.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Screwy booking. It was the weakest match the two have had and I'm even going back to the Maivia/Hunter days, I used to love the stiff punches they'd give eachother back then. DAT BACKSTAGE HEAT


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That strap match is really awful. As Corey said, the stipulation is pretty dumb anyway.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> and it just meanders around with a bunch of punches thrown all around the arena until some shitty interference in the end.


Alot of the AE summed up there


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on Cena/Batista LMS?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Looks like I'll be skipping that, How bout Taker/Show vs. Kane/X-PAC Summerslam 1999?


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on Cena/Batista LMS?


Should of been the match where Cena won the WWE Championship from Batista.

Instead of beating Batista three straight times Batista should of won at Wrestlemania leading into the Last Man Standing match at Extreme Rules where Cena beats him the way that he did with duck taping Batista to the ring post which would of led Batista to challenge Cena to the I Quit match at Over the Limit where Cena would of made Batista quit the way he did writting him off WWE TV.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I see we're talking about the GOAT again :HHH2

HHH in '03 was truly awful. I think that's why people shit on his reign as WHC because quite frankly promo wise GOAT's gonna GOAT. But his matches with Steiner blew chunks, Goldberg as well. God, what the hell was up with the GOAT back in '03?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOATAntics said:


> Looks like I'll be skipping that, How bout Taker/Show vs. Kane/X-PAC Summerslam 1999?


I love that match, gave it ***3/4 way back when I reviewed it (talking years ago now). Probably wouldn't have it that high now, but it's definitely worth a watch .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I should really rewatch Punk/McMahon. Don't recall seeing it apart from not long after it aired. Sounds like a perfect match for me based on the overview.











Fun little match, Vince looks good here and his babyface work was top notch. Punk was good as usual, the crowd were really into it, and Ryback's interrupting and saving Vince was a great moment and it was one of the biggest pops Ryback's got. Overall, a very fun match to watch and it's the sort of RAW main event people want to see because it was a fresh and interesting match up, and not some pointless rematch or tag team match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So the folks that really liked Del Rio/Swagger from Smackdown (WOOLCOCK, Yeah, Saint Dick), you weren't bothered at all by Del Rio blowing the selling of the knee and using the backcracker and the armbreaker over the knees? I've seen the match twice now and even my dad says "oh what the hell, what about his hurt knee?" That kind of killed what was going really well for me.


Basically what WOOLCOCK said. When he set up for the backcracker I was hoping he would hit it and then be unable to capitalize due to hurting himself so I can understand why that bothered you but in the grand scheme of things it was one questionable moment in a very good selling performance. Didn't mind the armbreaker much at all since it was targeting Swagger's injury. If the selling hadn't been so consistently good on the whole these things would probably have bothered me more but I can cut them some slack because overall both guys did a great job of conveying their pain to me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Some random goodness for ya'll 

 CM Punk and Matt Hardy vs The Miz and John Morrison - ECW 24.07.2008
So going in, all I'm aware of is that it's the night after the draft, Punk was drafted from ECW to Raw and Matt from Smackdown to ECW, so they pit Punk and Hardy against The Miz and Morrison on their last night and first night respectively. The match follows a basic structure, with Miz and Morrison overwhelming the faces and having their control periods and what have you, however, they had two small control periods, one with Hardy and one with Punk, and due to the match only running eight minutes or so, it makes the match feel really disjointed - In my opinion, they should have just had Miz and Morrison control Hardy, due to his superb babyface selling and comebacks, for him to make the hot tag to Punk, but whatever. A very meh match that should have been a lot more given who was involved, tbh.

 CM Punk and William Regal vs Christian and R-Truth - ECW 17.11.2009
Fuck R-Truth  Seriously. The other three are three of the best in the business and they decide to chuck in this moron as well. They wanted to preview the Survivor Series match that was on that Sunday, and they decided to choose Truth over Kingston, MVP and Henry. Eurghh. Anyway. Christian and R-Truth get off to a raring start with a HUGE slap from Christian to Punk, before dragging Regal in to the ring. Before Christian retires or whatever, we definitely need Heel Punk vs. Face Christian :mark: The tide turns with a bit of tomfoolery on the outside with Regal getting involved, and R-Truth takes a painful looking bump that I got a laugh out of watching. Anyway, Punk and Regal pick apart Truth's leg with some nifty looking offense whilst Christian urges his partner on. Christian is a really awesome apron worker, constantly clapping, shouting, observing etc. Is there anything that man isn't good at? Eventually, Truth gets the hot tag and the Punk bumps really well for Christian, making his offense look absolutely wonderful. After a little back and forth, the match ends with a lovely little finishing sequence - When I say sequence I mean three or four moves. This is what the above match should have been, tbh. Would have been interesting to see Christian as the FIP and Truth getting the hot tag, but it's still a solid match nonetheless.

 Chris Masters vs Luke Gallows - Superstars 25.06.2010
How have I never fucking seen this before, ever? This best not disappoint. In fact, it can not disappoint, surely? This one gets very physical, very quickly as you would expect. After taking an insane floor bump, Masters' lower back is targeted by Gallows and he sells it as you would expect from 2010 Chris Masters. Gallows takes advantage with some stiff strikes and some grungy offence, and Masters fights back with a sweet looking reversal and some hard strikes of his own. The finish is a bit meh, but there's enough goodness in there for a 5 minute match. Gallows and Masters are two of the most disappointing and heartbreaking releases of the past few years, both rule the world. I wish Masters would come back and I wish Gallows would get more ring time in TNA.


----------



## Black Jesus (Apr 7, 2013)

I just re-watched the Six Man Hell in a Cell from Armageddon 2000, and good lord, that match has to be my second favorite match of all time. Good star-power, good moments, tons of action. Just epic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Like A Boss said:


> I just re-watched the Six Man Hell in a Cell from Armageddon 2000, and good lord, that match has to be my second favorite match of all time. Good star-power, good moments, tons of action. Just epic.


Agreed there, one of my favorite HIAC's (Y)

Rikishi lol:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I can only give a ***3/4 rating for that Armageddon HiaC Match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

One of my favourite matches as a kid, and still an underrated HIAC. Poor Rikishi lol.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The 6 man HIAC was a lot of fun. Too bad we won't be seeing one of those again anytime soon.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Loved the Armageddon HIAC. Stone Cold was literally chasing HHH around teh entire match . :lmao



FluxCapacitor said:


> Some random goodness for ya'll
> 
> CM Punk and Matt Hardy vs The Miz and John Morrison - ECW 24.07.2008
> So going in, all I'm aware of is that it's the night after the draft, Punk was drafted from ECW to Raw and Matt from Smackdown to ECW, so they pit Punk and Hardy against The Miz and Morrison on their last night and first night respectively. The match follows a basic structure, with Miz and Morrison overwhelming the faces and having their control periods and what have you, however, they had two small control periods, one with Hardy and one with Punk, and due to the match only running eight minutes or so, it makes the match feel really disjointed - In my opinion, they should have just had Miz and Morrison control Hardy, due to his superb babyface selling and comebacks, for him to make the hot tag to Punk, but whatever. A very meh match that should have been a lot more given who was involved, tbh.
> ...


Great reviews gonna check them out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watched the 8-Man Elimination Tag from Summer 2011, Cena/Morrison/Sheamus/Riley vs Barrett/Christian/Ziggler/Swagger. And Goddamn it's FUN. ***1/2, maybe ***3/4.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

ATF said:


> Watched the 8-Man Elimination Tag from Summer 2011, Cena/Morrison/Sheamus/Riley vs Barrett/Christian/Ziggler/Swagger. And Goddamn it's FUN. ***1/2, maybe ***3/4.


EDIT- Found both.

Ratings so post is relevant;

Orton/Punk WM 27: ****1/4*
Edge/Del Rio WM 27: ****


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

lol fail, forget it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@Patick Bateman American psycho was on 2 days ago lol one of the best movies of all time. Back to wresting last night I watched Andre the giant/Stan Hanson from 81 in japan. I think YEah1993 recommedd this to me a while ago not sure, but anyways fun match ****1/2 that match is what pro wresting is all about very enjoyable, it was the type of match you watch and our jsut interseteed in for now reason.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Andre could actually walk then. He was LEGIT.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> @Patick Bateman *American psycho was on 2 days ago lol one of the best movies of all time.* Back to wresting last night I watched Andre the giant/Stan Hanson from 81 in japan. I think YEah1993 recommedd this to me a while ago not sure, but anyways fun match ****1/2 that match is what pro wresting is all about very enjoyable, it was the type of match you watch and our jsut interseteed in for now reason.


Yeah, I would give the film ****3/4 out of ***** and the novel ***** out of *****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ Yea I was shocked when I saw it, and in somewhat good shape he was


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Peak Andre is everything right about pro-wrestling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ its refreshing to get away from the usually stuff and watch matches that are old school, unique, simple, and just as good if not much better than newer stuff


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big fan of Punk/Orton from WM27. Edge/Del Rio is alright.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I haven't watched any wrestling for the entire day 

Off to go watch some '06 stuff.

Also, why the hell is this thread moving so slow today?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

No idea, but just watched the Jake the Snake doc, now I want to watch some of his best stuff, recs?


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

At the suggestion of Nostalgia, I'm here to ask a question. What do people think of Cena/Edge from Unforgiven 2006? He said that a lot of people shit on it apparently. I loathe Cena, but even I thought it was a good match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> At the suggestion of Nostalgia, I'm here to ask a question. What do people think of Cena/Edge from Unforgiven 2006? He said that a lot of people shit on it apparently. I loathe Cena, but even I thought it was a good match.


It's the latest PPV I went through in my 2006 project so it's fresh on my mind. I used to have it at ★★★★½ but this recent watch took away the ½ from it. Very good match and pretty underrated around here.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I prefer the johnboy/edge match of backlash 09 to it. Its ok, I like the LMS much better though


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

2006 :mark:

So here is a interesting topic, I was reading on another forum the other day, and a guy was making a case for WWE TV from a wrestling standpoint, the year in focus was 2009, and he posted this in 2011. He said that his brother and himself came up with 366 matches from 2009 that they could remember being good, IN 2009! They also said that between 2000-2009, there could easily be 1000-1500 quality matches on TV in that time frame, which I thought was insane, but now that I think about it, it could be right. So my question to you all, just based on what you remember, how many quality matches do you think have been on WWE TV from 2003-2013, a decade.

Also to note, this wasn't just some random guy, he was a well respected member of the forum, so the guy wasn't trying to troll or anything. 

So yea, DISCUSS!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I didnt watch in 2009 but guys on here shit on it, when I watch some of the stuff, I can understand from guest host and some of the pg shit being bad but from a in ring pov I think its one of the better years imo. Sd 09 was good and there are some gems on raw that year. Hell alot of ppl think the best match in wwe history took place that year (hbk/taker)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> At the suggestion of Nostalgia, I'm here to ask a question. What do people think of Cena/Edge from Unforgiven 2006? He said that a lot of people shit on it apparently. I loathe Cena, but even I thought it was a good match.


I said quite a few, not a lot. It's just whenever the topic of that match has been brought up in the last couple of months in this thread, there's been vocal negative things said about it from a few well known regular contributors here like HayleySabin, KingOfKings and JoeRulz. Maybe I was dwelling on the negative too much, but I just don't get the dislike for the match. It's your classic TLC match consisting of big spots, great atmosphere, and good drama. That match was the culmination of the great Edge/Cena feud in 2006, and it was honestly a very good match imo. Ask any casual fan and they'll enjoy it, hell, I showed the match to two friends not too long ago, one who was a former wrestling fan who keeps up with the current product on and off, and the other who was a very new wrestling fan, and they both thought it was one of the best matches they've seen. It's only when you come online to a wrestling forum and you see people over-analyse every single tiny detail that you get these opinions..


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> It's the latest PPV I went through in my 2006 project so it's fresh on my mind. I used to have it at ★★★★½ but this recent watch took away the ½ from it. Very good match and pretty underrated around here.


Any particular reason you took away the 1/2?


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I said quite a few, not a lot. It's just whenever the topic of that match has been brought up in the last couple of months in this thread, there's been vocal negative things said about it from a few well known regular contributors here like HayleySabin, KingOfKings and JoeRulz. Maybe I was dwelling on the negative too much, but I just don't get the dislike for the match. It's your classic TLC match consisting of big spots, great atmosphere, and good drama. That match was the culmination of the great Edge/Cena feud in 2006, and it was honestly a very good match imo. Ask any casual fan and they'll enjoy it, hell, I showed the match to two friends not too long ago, one who was former wrestling fan who keeps up with the current product on and off, and the other who was a very new wrestling fan, and they both thought it was one of the best matches they've seen. It's only when you come online to a wrestling forum and you see people over-analyse every single tiny detail that you get these opinions..


Quite a few, a lot, same thing to me.

I''m surprised HayleySabin is negative on it, he seems to usually be overwhelmingly positive. KingofKings is a Cena mark, too, isn't he? I'd be interested to hear comments from the match's detractors, so I can see what they didn't like.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Watched the 8-Man Elimination Tag from Summer 2011, Cena/Morrison/Sheamus/Riley vs Barrett/Christian/Ziggler/Swagger. And Goddamn it's FUN. ***1/2, maybe ***3/4.


Yeah, that match was great. Might give it another watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tanner1495 said:


> 2006 :mark:
> 
> So here is a interesting topic, I was reading on another forum the other day, and a guy was making a case for WWE TV from a wrestling standpoint, the year in focus was 2009, and he posted this in 2011. He said that his brother and himself came up with 366 matches from 2009 that they could remember being good, IN 2009! They also said that between 2000-2009, there could easily be 1000-1500 quality matches on TV in that time frame, which I thought was insane, but now that I think about it, it could be right. So my question to you all, just based on what you remember, how many quality matches do you think have been on WWE TV from 2003-2013, a decade.
> 
> ...



WWE in the 2000s have more good matches than any other company/time-frame ever. Not the BEST matches, but most. I mean, if you are looking at quantity instead of quality (though quality is obviously a factor in what is good). Think about it, WWE had Raw and SmackDown running every single week for those ten years, both shows going for two hours. You didn't get that back in the 90s when WCW was on fire in 1992, or when All Japan was the best thing on the planet. Their TV wasn't anywhere near as long. WCW had tons of shows, but not so many matches on each show, and the matches didn't get so much time. On any given episode of late 90s WorldWide you might get only one match that reaches seven minutes. WWE ran TWO 2-hour shows a week, plus Velocity, Jakked, Metal, Superstars, ECW, Heat, etc. The TV matches in recent years have been getting more time to develop into a good match. Throw in the multi-hour PPVs which they run over ten times a year, and 'WWE in the 2000s have more good matches than any company/ten year span on tape ever' seems pretty much writing on the wall. All Japan in the 90s, CWA in the 80s, New Japan in the 80s, etc smoke WWE in the 2000s because they had consistency as well, and their high-end matches destroy the high-end matches WWE put on. But looking at an AMOUNT of good matches, WWE takes it easily. Would they have the best ratio of good matches? Highly, highly, highly, highly unlikely. In fact there's no fucking way they'd have even close to the best ratio. But if you count the good matches WWE have had in the 2000s, no one else had that.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

God, I try to forget everything about RAW in 2009. I went a few months without watching the product AT ALL. It was just so bad. Orton/Cena was over done to death.

When I think 2009, I think SD! Oh God, here it comes again. The monthly "Let's discuss the GOLD that was SD in 2009" But damn, I was 14 at the time and even I could have seen the genius in Punk/Hardy feud as well as Jericho/Mysterio. Still won't forget that moment when Rey was making his entrance and doing that thing he does where he rests his head on some other kid's (who's wearing his mask) head. He does it to this one person in the audience and bam! The 'fan' attacks him. Turns out the 'fan' was Jericho. Brilliant!

And do I even need to explain Punk/Hardy? Also the midcard guys were tearing it up every week. Ziggler, Morrisson, Knox, Finlay, Hardy...list goes on! Every month there'd be some sort of #1 contender's match for a title. Made it feel that more important. 2009 is when people started taking note of Ziggler as well. 

Plus, what made SD even more great was the fact that they'd do midcard vs uppermidcard/main event matcches. Matches like Ziggler/Mysterio and Morrisson/Edge were the matches that sort of gave these guys some relevancy and put them in the spotlight. 

By the time Summer ended though, I found that SD went to shit. Once Taker returned..meh. Also, The Chosen One came and fucked up Ziggler's momentum. Worse yet, from the moment Drew got the title, it lost all the prestige Jericho and Ziggler worked hard to bring back to it. McIntyre winning the IC title in '09 definitely proved that creative really expects to just sit back and hope the title around the waist=being over/relevant. It was the complete opposite. Before that, the IC title truly used to feel like the #2 title, just right behind the WHC. Like I said, there was always a number 1 contender's match. Not some random match where it suddenly changed hands (a la Kingsotn/Cesaro)

Man, I had almost every SD from '09 on DVD. I don't know where the fuck they went! I'm so pissed. Would have loved to popped them in from time to time whenever I get bored.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Quite a few, a lot, same thing to me.
> 
> I''m surprised HayleySabin is negative on it, he seems to usually be overwhelmingly positive. KingofKings is a Cena mark, too, isn't he? I'd be interested to hear comments from the match's detractors, so I can see what they didn't like.


If you dig through the thread you might find them, but with this discussion now I'm sure those posters will gladly explain again their feelings on the match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What a coincidence we're talking about Cena/Edge Unforgiven '06. I'm about to go watch it now. 

I haven't seen it since 2006 (I was 11 back then) and I remember loving the shit out of it! Especially the ending. Would be nice to see how I rank it now, using my 'critical eye'


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Agreed there, one of my favorite HIAC's (Y)
> 
> Rikishi lol:


The look on Austin's face when that happened gets me everytime. :lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I'm watching the video package for Cena/Edge and boy, now I remember why I fucking loved this feud so damn much! The booking was just perfect. 

I forgot about that little detail where if Cena lost he would sign to SD for 3 years. Just added a little unpredictability factor to the match. But could you imagine if Cena lost? How would the RAW landscape have been? We wouldn't have seen him till 2009! But knowing WWE by the middle of 2007 they would have found some way to bring him back on RAW 

Another thing, that even at 11 years old I could have appreciated it, was how Cena was booked to lose in his hometown at Summerslam and Edge in his at Unforgiven. You just gotta love those coincidences in wrestling. What are the odds that two back to back PPVs would have been in the main rivals' hometowns. 

Man, I love this feud. One of the GOAT if you ask me. One of the last feuds to really have HEAT behind it. The true last feud with heat, if you ask me, was Hardy/Punk. I can't think of anything else since then that felt like a legit hatred between two people. 

Anyway, gotta shut up now. Time to watch the damn match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KO Bossy said:


> Any particular reason you took away the 1/2?


It just lacked the 'epic' feel I got from it before. Some spots came across too carefully choreographed and it felt like something was missing in a way. A little blood, specially with the chair shots to the head, would have added to the brutality for instance. Plus the finish was laughable if you analyze things as there are two refs holding the ladder to make sure nothing goes wrong. Still a hell of a match, though.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just watched the finish to Cena/Edge again, the refs holding the ladder was unnecessary, but the actual spot that ends that match is just epic. One of the most memorable spots in the past decade of WWE programming.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Just watched the finish to Cena/Edge again, the refs holding the ladder was unnecessary, but the actual spot that ends that match is just epic. One of the most memorable spots in the past decade of WWE programming.




Agreed, I love this match. In cenas top 5 matches IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Alot of the AE summed up there


Truth!



Saint Dick said:


> Basically what WOOLCOCK said. When he set up for the backcracker I was hoping he would hit it and then be unable to capitalize due to hurting himself so I can understand why that bothered you but in the grand scheme of things it was one questionable moment in a very good selling performance. Didn't mind the armbreaker much at all since it was targeting Swagger's injury. If the selling hadn't been so consistently good on the whole these things would probably have bothered me more but I can cut them some slack because overall both guys did a great job of conveying their pain to me.


(Y) To each his own.



sharkboy22 said:


> Also, why the hell is this thread moving so slow today?


It's because Cody hasn't been on all day. haha. And Evan hasn't been in a while either. Yeah, real names ftw.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I asked a question similar to this before but ijust want to clear this up cuz I was having a problem with this. Ok when you guys rate matches and give them dem starz whats the different between a ****1/4 and a ****


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well, what can I say? Cena/Edge TLC still holds up for me. 

What I liked:

-This match was back and forth, without going 100mph. At no point, in this match did I ever feel one man had total domination over the other for a long period of time. When it seemed as if Cena was going to be dominating for a long time, Edge pulled out of nowhere and cut him off. Likewise, if Edge had control, Cena cut him off. But it didn't feel as if it was just Edge hits Cena, Cena hits back. There was selling and there was pacing. Take for example, Edge does a neckbreaker to Cena on two chairs that were facing each other. Edge begins to climb the ladder; however Cena gets up, knocks Edge off the ladder but Edge was able to maintain balance and carefully land, knocking Cena down with a clothesline immediately.

A better example of the back and forth action is at one point in the match where Cena had Edge down, for some reason he went to get a table but as he came back in Edge hit him with a steel chair. The match just kept going and going, without it being a no-sell and spot fest. Bottom line: Back and forth action, with selling, pacing and structure still remaining intact.

-Toying with the crowd. I can't explain the great job these two did in playing on the crowd's emotions.Being in Toronto, this was a a pro-Edge crowd. From the get go, they start playing up the anti-Cena crowd. Cena tackles Edge with a shoulder tackle *boo* He does it again *boo* The third time, Edge does a leap frog, Cena turns around and walks right into a slap from Edge *cheer*

Another great example of this occurs where Edge puts two cheers to face each other. He attempts to Suplex Cena on it *cheer* Cena reverses and attempts a suplex of his own *boo* Cena gets Edge up into the air but 
Edge quickly counters into a falling neckbreaker on the chair *cheer* Every action plays on the crowd's emotions.

-DRAMA. Look, I love a good old grapple much like most of you in this section, but to me wrestling is nothing without drama. Why? Because wrestling is a drama! It's the farthest thing from a sport. Anyone saying that wrestling is a sport bought into the story that was being told by two drama actors. This match has so much excitement in the last 5 minutes. With Edge knocked out cold on the outside, Cena begins to climb a ladder. Just as he has his fingertips on the title, out of nowhere comes Lita. Again, it all plays on the crowd. Cena climbs the ladder *boo* Lita comes out *cheer* Lita pushes Cena off the ladder, Cena lands outside the ring on a table. 

Lita successfully wakes Edge up from his state of unconsciousness and now Edge starts climbing. However, Cena miraculously begins to make a come back of his own, slowly crawling into the ring. In the ring, Lita hits Cena with a steel chair causing him to flinch forward which in turn causes Cena to knock Edge off the ladder, sending him into a table on the outside. 

Cena slowly begins to climb, same time Edge starts to make a comeback as well. Both men make it up the ladder, and time for the finish. Cena FU's Edge off the ladder into two tables in the ring and we have a new 3 time WWE champ.

How awesome was that?

What I didn't like:

-Stupidity of some spots. Like every match with a gimmick attached to it, the guys always do something that makes you scratch your head. Take for example, Edge has Cena laying on the second rope. So, on the outside, he takes a ladder and slams it into Cena's face. Good. From there, he places the ladder on Cena's face, goes to the barricade, gets on top of it and dropkicks the ladder. WTF? Wouldn't slamming the ladder in his face again do the same thing? You know, without hurting your back? This complaint is more of the business side of pro wrestling. Because while it did look to the fans, from the worker's perspective it wasn't the smartest thing to do. Work smart, not hard. Hitting Cena in the face with the ladder achieves the same thing and you don't risk injury as well.

Which brings me to my next point. Now I know people complain about these spots being set up too obviously, but I don't think it's that. Those that are saying the spots are too obvious are probably those that have seen the match 100 times already. Of course it's obvious (to you), you know what's coming. Obviously, early in the match when Edge just randomly clears the table on the outside, it's to set up for a big bump. Now there's a 50/50 chance on a first watch you might have guessed that someone was gonna go through it. However, this was the first time I saw this match in about 6 years. So when I watched it, I obviously had a feeling that something was gonna happen. However, when I saw Cena go through another table, I didn't think much of it again. Until about 2 minutes later, edge went through it.

Also there's this one really, really, really stupid set up. Edge puts Ceana on a table, and then for some ungodly reason, decided to go outside, get another table and put it on top of Cena? So, Cena's already on a table, edge puts another one on top of him to go climb the turnbuckle to put himself through a table as well? Obviously, it was done to set up the finish. Now, on a second watch you're gonna say "obvious" but on a first watch you'd probably say "stupid" I don't think anyone could have predicted the AA off the ladder on a first time viewing.

So yeah the spots aren't "obvious", they're just clumsily set up. All in all this is a great match though imo. It's great back and forth action, some cool uses of the weapons and most importantly it has DRAMA. I can't stress the importance of drama in pro wrestling, especially how crucial it is when ending a feud. This match had a huge climax with a huge pay off. Definitely a great way to cap off 2006's best feud and imo one of the GOAT feuds.

****1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching Punk/Ziggler series from early last year
nov 11 ***3/4
1/2/12 ***1/4
on to the rumble match


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting the PIPER doc. 

On another note, does anyone have any idea as to where the "Vince's death" storyline would have gone in 2007 if Benoit hadn't died? I was just thinking when I saw that in the Raw Top 100.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I asked a question similar to this before but ijust want to clear this up cuz I was having a problem with this. Ok when you guys rate matches and give them dem starz whats the different between a ****1/4 and a ****


I put ****1/4 as great and close to epic but not quite there. Easy to say **1/2 is an average match, *** is an above average match, ***1/2 is close to memorable and great, **** is great, ****1/2 is epic, ***** is a fucking classic. it depends on your personal take of it, that's just mine.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Starting the PIPER doc.
> 
> On another note, does anyone have any idea as to where the "Vince's death" storyline would have gone in 2007 if Benoit hadn't died? I was just thinking when I saw that in the Raw Top 100.


There were crazy rumors going around that Paul London was going to be behind the whole car explosion and all sorts of other crazy speculation regarding the storyline. I have no clue as to how that would have turned out if true but it would have been very interesting to say the least.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/ Ziggler rr 12
****1/4
I may overrate it a bit (two of my current favs) but this is a seriously underrated match of the last two years. It gets overlooked because of their nov 11 match which is also good but this is better, as it get more time. I'm not one to really get mad at finishes but if I ever did it be this one,ziggler gets buried by being beaten FOUR times by punk, and add that with the weakest ref ever and big johnny and it is no bueno. all in all good match

Punk/ziggler series
nov 11 ***3/4
1/2/12 ***1/4
rr 12 ****1/4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

DA FUCK? Piper doc is going so well, but Johnny Nitro, Mikey from the Spirit Squad, and Cena just showed one after the other talking about the Snuka incident in Piper's Pit. FUCK these twats.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

COREY.

The thing about the Cena/Edge match is that if I had to use just one word to describe it, it would be CONTRIVED. Everything about the match is contrived in nature from the last spot being utterly ridiculous (really fun to see not going to lie) and tons of clumsily put together spots being stringed together throughout the match. I'm not going to lie when I say that it's one of the more FUN matches out there just like many gimmick matches, but GOOD and FUN are completely different things. Due to the subjective nature of matches and opinions, crowd reaction and the fact that it's in Edge's hometown essentially means nothing to me despite being a fellow Canadian myself.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I asked a question similar to this before but ijust want to clear this up cuz I was having a problem with this. Ok when you guys rate matches and give them dem starz whats the different between a ****1/4 and a ****


My ratings system is still getting fine tuned but Anything at or above **** is a great match for me. one that I will watch again.. if I could

****1/4 is close to classic but their was a spot I didn't like or the finish was somewhat weak... Or the atmosphere sucked.. Depends really and again no ratings system is perfect.

*****

For me it's a match that if I was on an island and had a tv with no cable, just a dvd player and could only watch that match for entertainment, I wouldn't kill myself. LOL


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> DA FUCK? Piper doc is going so well, but Johnny Nitro, Mikey from the Spirit Squad, and Cena just showed one after the other talking about the Snuka incident in Piper's Pit. FUCK these twats.



At least they didn't use Matt Striker


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

That's irrelevant said:


> There were crazy rumors going around that Paul London was going to be behind the whole car explosion and all sorts of other crazy speculation regarding the storyline. I have no clue as to how that would have turned out if true but it would have been very interesting to say the least.


I was actually talking to London about that incident last friday at an Indy show he said he had no idea that they were gonna have the car explosion he said he woulda been laughing harder at the time if he knew Vince's car was gonna explode


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Oh Cena/EDGE the TLC match.

From what I remember, I loved it when I first saw it.. ****

The weak ass chair shot early in the match sucked.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

I posted a thread in the Classic Wrestling Area where I'm trying to get a discussion going about a top 50 wrestlers of all time. As in, top 50 greatest stars in all of wrestling history from any possible candidate on the planet. Anyone care to mosey on over and discuss?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

1) john cena

2) whoever vince says is number 2 currently

3-50) who cares


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Brandenthesmark said:


> I was actually talking to London about that incident last friday at an Indy show he said he had no idea that they were gonna have the car explosion he said he woulda been laughing harder at the time if he knew Vince's car was gonna explode


That's pretty interesting. It makes me even more skeptical about the rumors. 

I still think Paul London being the evil mastermind behind the car explosion would have been interesting just to see how they would have handled it. Also can't forget this:


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> 1) john cena
> 
> 2) whoever vince says is number 2 currently
> 
> 3-50) who cares


You could at least try...no need to be facetious all the time, nobody is hating on anything.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

That's irrelevant said:


> That's pretty interesting. It makes me even more skeptical about the rumors.
> 
> I still think Paul Lodnon being the evil mastermind behind the car explosion would have been interesting just to see how they would have handled it. London with a sick and twisted gimmick would have been something. Also can't forget this:


Probably only reason people think it would've been him?


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

^
ya that woulda been interesting to see but I can't imagine WWE putting London in a big storyline like that


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

KO Bossy said:


> You could at least try...no need to be facetious all the time, nobody is hating on anything.


Sorry man, its just that the part of me that takes wrestling seriously died more or less when Shawn retired

Its not that I miss him or anything, its just that I realised that match was the last moment any moment in wrestling would mean anything to me and its all downhill from here

A top 50 of all time would be hard to make. Specific to WWWF/WWF/WWE or North America or global?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena/Edge TLC, I have at ****, Surprisingly it went up from a low **1/2 to what it is now. That chair shot was weak as hell though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah so I just spent like two hours comparing John Cena matches to one another to finally complete the top 100.

It gets really fucking frustrating when you're at number 87 and you're trying to decide what match out of five is better than the others. That's why I grouped them in fives and slowly whittled it down. Had to write up a few drafts because I wasn't happy with how the list looked but now I can say I'm fairly certain that this list is the best I can crank out. Going to look into this deeper to determine the top 10 Cena opponents ever ATM BRB.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Can't wait KOK


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KO Bossy said:


> Quite a few, a lot, same thing to me.
> 
> I''m surprised HayleySabin is negative on it, he seems to usually be overwhelmingly positive. KingofKings is a Cena mark, too, isn't he? I'd be interested to hear comments from the match's detractors, so I can see what they didn't like.


It's what can be poor about a ladder match, imo. Lots of contrived moments and flat out blah _(for the ultimate lack of a better word)_ sequences throughout leave me soured on the match. I don't have much fun watching it. Off the top of my head I can't recall a specific moment of the match I really like.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Not as bad as Edge vs Taker TLC

Beyond terrible


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was just thinking about Cena vs Big Show @ NWO 2012 and I asked myself a question ; does card placement have anything to do with how one would rate a match? To put this in context, I'd call a match that's *** - ** 3/4* a GOOD match. Not overly special or anything, just GOOD, however if I'm watching a PPV and the main event features a match less than *****, I'll cite it as being a lackluster main event. Sure I'll watch the match back and I'll enjoy it as a one off match kind of like Show-Cena from NWO which I do indeed enjoy as a whole, but when it comes to a main event I just have higher standards as to what's suitable and what's not. It's the same thing with TV matches vs PPV matches ; if an individual is going out every week and giving us a *** - ** 3/4* match on TV, that's pretty fucking awesome, but if the same individual is putting out the same caliber of matches when it comes to PPV they'll be seen as perhaps a lackluster worker.

Wondering where the context of a match in relation to it's show affects the ratings you'll give a match or how much you'll enjoy it in general.

& YEP. Edge vs Taker is easily the worst TLC match and I'll say what I've said before in the past ; There's a whole host of guys that I'd put out there as being better at ladder matches in general than Edge is. Edge is actually quite average at the match type all things considered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both suck, but I think I'll take Undertaker vs Edge over Cena vs Edge. Guess those contrived spots from ONS weren't as boring to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My jaw just dropped when I saw my list of top 10 John Cena opponents, as despite how true the rankings are, they're probably going to be heavily scrutinized.

Probably going to be better than the top 100 matches in all honesty.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I was just thinking about Cena vs Big Show @ NWO 2012 and I asked myself a question ; does card placement have anything to do with how one would rate a match? To put this in context, I'd call a match that's *** - ** 3/4* a GOOD match. Not overly special or anything, just GOOD, however if I'm watching a PPV and the main event features a match less than *****, I'll cite it as being a lackluster main event. Sure I'll watch the match back and I'll enjoy it as a one off match kind of like Show-Cena from NWO which I do indeed enjoy as a whole, but when it comes to a main event I just have higher standards as to what's suitable and what's not. It's the same thing with TV matches vs PPV matches ; if an individual is going out every week and giving us a *** - ** 3/4* match on TV, that's pretty fucking awesome, but if the same individual is putting out the same caliber of matches when it comes to PPV they'll be seen as perhaps a lackluster worker.
> 
> Wondering where the context of a match in relation to it's show affects the ratings you'll give a match or how much you'll enjoy it in general.
> 
> & YEP. Edge vs Taker is easily the worst TLC match and I'll say what I've said before in the past ; There's a whole host of guys that I'd put out there as being better at ladder matches in general than Edge is. Edge is actually quite average at the match type all things considered.


This right here is another reason I did away with star ratings. Say I rate a 7 minute TV match **3/4 that should indicate that it was a good match. If I give a 20 minute PPV main event **3/4 that means it was quite disappointing. Here I am having a match that I considered good and a match that I thought was disappointing at the same rating...


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Sorry man, its just that the part of me that takes wrestling seriously died more or less when Shawn retired
> 
> Its not that I miss him or anything, its just that I realised that match was the last moment any moment in wrestling would mean anything to me and its all downhill from here
> 
> A top 50 of all time would be hard to make. Specific to WWWF/WWF/WWE or North America or global?


Global. Anything from the US, Canada, Mexico, Japan, Europe, you name it. And its not just wrestlers either-commentators, managers, even valets if you so choose. The whole purpose is to make a list of 50 names that you feel no serious wrestling HoF is complete without.

As for your jaded nature concerning wrestling today...I get where you're coming from. I try to care about what's going on, but things are by in large so poorly run these days that its pretty well impossible. I think what's worst is that they build up something neat to give you a glimmer of hope and then they ruin it like...a week later (look at Ziggler). Granted, my cynicism didn't begin with the retirement of a wrestler. It takes more than that for me. The one instance that really made me throw my hands up in the air and say "I give up" was when Brock lost to Cena last April. I actually exclaimed out loud "fuck this stupid company."


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Honestly, I still dont mind the loss

Contextually in regards to this single match and psychology of the match it was great

Aftermath.... not so much

Now Hogan vs Savage WM 5, there isnt a match ending that could make me angrier than that one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I was just thinking about Cena vs Big Show @ NWO 2012 and I asked myself a question ; does card placement have anything to do with how one would rate a match? To put this in context, I'd call a match that's *** - ** 3/4* a GOOD match. Not overly special or anything, just GOOD, however if I'm watching a PPV and the main event features a match less than *****, I'll cite it as being a lackluster main event. Sure I'll watch the match back and I'll enjoy it as a one off match kind of like Show-Cena from NWO which I do indeed enjoy as a whole, but when it comes to a main event I just have higher standards as to what's suitable and what's not. It's the same thing with TV matches vs PPV matches ; if an individual is going out every week and giving us a *** - ** 3/4* match on TV, that's pretty fucking awesome, but if the same individual is putting out the same caliber of matches when it comes to PPV they'll be seen as perhaps a lackluster worker.
> 
> Wondering where the context of a match in relation to it's show affects the ratings you'll give a match or how much you'll enjoy it in general.


I get what you mean by this. I don't let card placement come into play with a situation like that. Only the drawback to going on "last" is you expect it to deliver in one way or another. Most cards in the world of wrestling are placed how they should be - weaker workers start and as the show builds the matches get better. Only in the world of WWE the card placements are wacky and often times done to benefit certain matches and leave the rest to the scraps of a dull, tired out crowd.

TV is different where if a weekly event gives me a bunch of ** - ***+ matches, that's really good. If a TV show can pump out decent matches at their weakest on a consistent basis than I'll gladly put it over. Like during the high point of Superstars that I often talk about. Some of the best editions have the matches all in the range I mentioned. That's ideal when it comes to TV. Where as with PPVs, you'd expect the quality to be upped thanks to more time or emphasis to develop via no commercials/segments.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cody watch Del Rio/Swagger from last week.

I think I'm gonna follow Yeah1993 and have a 'watch a bunch of random matches from a wrestler' night. Tonight it's Matt Hardy.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

I try to judge the match as a singular entity and avoid focusing on the outside circumstances such as the lead up and the aftermath, but I find that I simply can't. The absolute wrong move at the wrong time happening to the wrong guy in one of the stupidest ways possible. Took all my enjoyment out of the match. Kinda like Hogan/Sting at Starrcade 1997-the finish totally killed anything good they'd done up to that point (and yes, I'm aware Hogan/Sting was no technical masterpiece to begin with).

I am curious to hear your thoughts on that WM5 match, though...obviously would have been better for Savage to go over, but I was like...a year and a half old when it happened, so I didn't get the full experience of the impact at the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Cody watch Del Rio/Swagger from last week.
> 
> I think I'm gonna follow Yeah1993 and have a 'watch a bunch of random matches from a wrestler' night. Tonight it's Matt Hardy.


Did last night. Good, good, good stuff.

Matt Hardy matches :mark:

Apparently he had an excellent match vs Sami Callihan (who's on his way to WWE if facts weren't false) last weekend. Gonna check it out later.


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar (No Way Out 2006) - ****3/4 

My favorite match of all time actually. What do you guys think of the Taker/Lesnar series?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

^ ^
fairly certain that match doesnt exist. I think you mean Kurt vs Taker

It had nothing to do with Savage winning. I made my peace with that

Cena beating Lesnar in the context of the match made sense. Lesnar beats the holy hell out of Cena for 20 minutes while cena keeps trying comebacks and getting his ass kicked. he mounts little to no offense.

Brock coula ended him several times, but chose not to, instead just taking pleasure in hurting cena further and further and enjoying it. hes cocky too, he knows how good he is 

He hits a great move smashing cena onto the outside and laughs about it. He goes again, and his cockiness is his downfall. Cena out of absolute desperation smashes him with a CHAIN TO THE FACE. I dont care how strong you are, thats gotta fucking hurt and knock out you. And then an AA onto the steel steps and rushes to the pin to GTFO of that match as humanly possible. he attained his target, he survived

WM5 was simple. For 20 minutes Savage works a perfect match around hogan. Good heel tactics, use of elizabeth, works over certain bodyparts, all great

Then hogan gets up randomly after the elbow, hulks up, leg drop, 1,2,3

Thats what bothered me. That ending stretch. People criticise john for being too predictable but that was the biggest piece of shit ending I saw in my life. Effectively was what it was saying was "fuck everything you just did, you coulda shot me in the face and I still woulda just gotten up, and beaten you the exact same way I beat that jobber last week"

They could have tried anything, ANYTHING, to make that ending different. But it just flat out doesnt make sense. It had no context. Its just hogan no selling and getting up and hitting his finisher. It was basically telling me the entire match was a waste of my time.

Hogan beating Andre, atleast that had some drama in it. Hogan sold some weakness. Hogan vs Warrior, it all clicked. Bad maybe but atleast it makes sense

That ending pisses me off because it insults me the viewer. Atleast when Yoko lost he took salt to the eye. When Cena beat Umaga, he desperately choked him out with the rope. He sold that umaga was an unbeatable monster and it sold how far cena was willing to go to survive. 

Even that stupid ducttape thing with Batista, or handcuffing himself to Orton (still another annoying ending btw). I dislike them, but i tolerate them because atleast they make one tiny iota of sense. But Hogan vs Savage doesnt. I just hate abrupt endings that are THAT predictable because it hurts the match and the other competitor


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Aren't alot of Hogan's matches like that though? his cover is he hulks up and the crowd goes batshit.

Also

Hogan vs. Warrior - Wrestlemania 6

*****

Fucking Spectacle, nostalgic as fuck being my first match ever seeing as a kid. Warrior was my everything lol. Still enjoy it to this day.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Probably meant No Mercy 2002. I love that match and is definitely one of my favorite but I've seen people who don't really like it that much. As for their series I haven't seen any other of their matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, numerous Hogan matches are like that. Match goes back and forth, Hogan gets beatdown, Hulks up, crowd goes ballistic, Hogan hits his two finishers and boom that's it.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

It wasnt really back and forth though

Thats what pissed me off

There was no underlying logic. Every match is supposed to have one, even terrible matches. Even the worst match. The only thing that comes close is Cena vs JBL and that one just got fucked due to Kurt vs Shawn going on too long

To me that ending was hogan saying "lol this is getting bored i'll just no sell, hit my finisher and leave"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really. It was identical to so many Hogan matches. Go watch a bunch and you'll see.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Well, ive only seen his Wrestlemania matches

Except 2

I did not feel like watching Hogan vs bundy

or 7

After savage vs Warrior I realised its all downhill from here


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Matt Hardy v Edge - Summerslam (8/21/05)*
I adore this series. Actually, off the top of my head, I can't think of a feud I like more. This only got around 5 minutes but they made the absolute most of it. Pure intensity. Matt has always had good punches and he adds a little extra stiffness to them here. The spear through the ropes was dope. Nasty bump for Hardy to take. Edge's assault after Matt starts to bleed is really good. Unlike Hardy, Edge is a pretty shitty puncher but his offense featured headbutts, knees and sick looking boots to the face, complimented by this dastardly dickish smile at the end. Heel Edge at his best. All in all a badass, albeit short, fight featuring a super sell job by Hardy which really made you question if he was legitimately out of it after the ring post spot.

PS. Lita's cleavage (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those are the only Hogan matches you've seen? Well, I can say you're lucky you missed out on a lot of his WCW work.

Most Hogan matches ended up the way it did vs Savage. Like nearly every match with a clean finish on the Unreleased Hogan DVD set follows the same formula for a finish. Just replace his opponent: Haku, One Man Gang, Rick Rude, Kamala, etc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MATT = GOD in that match.

So RAW, so ORGANIC, so ..... NON WWE-ISH.

Is NWO Hogan in WCW the worst main event run ever? Obviously not counting the part time run of Rock in 2013 as that's ust a bunch of bullshit anyways.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Hogan in one sense is the greatest Wrestler of all time.. He made so much money, doing so little in the ring yet effective with connecting with the crowd.

Unfortuntely, He spawned a basic template, that Vince has molded into a WWE main event worker.. 

Also, since they worked like 300 days a year, Hogan fucked up his health so bad, taking the same bumps every night.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Bullshit, Hogan wasnt effective. He was lazy. Effective implies clever manipulation of the crowd with minimal work. Like Jake

Hogan was different, he just coasted on his popularity to carry him through matches.



HayleySabin said:


> Those are the only Hogan matches you've seen? Well, I can say you're lucky you missed out on a lot of his WCW work.
> 
> Most Hogan matches ended up the way it did vs Savage. Like nearly every match with a clean finish on the Unreleased Hogan DVD set follows the same formula for a finish. Just replace his opponent: Haku, One Man Gang, Rick Rude, Kamala, etc.


Well i can live with that, usually

But this was WRESTLEMANIA

MEGA POWERS EXPLODING

BIGGEST MATCH SINCE HOGAN VS ANDRE

and instead we get that


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I have Hardy/Edge Summerslam at ****1/4, Great stiff contest and, a grade A example on how you advance a feud.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

:lol, Hogan never took any bumps, It was the same basic format, over and over again.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

How can a man who sold out arenas thru the 80s not be considered effective at what he did?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Charisma and popularity doesnt mean he was good in the ring

Austin was the biggest wrestler from Summerslam 1997 to April 1998, and he barely wrestled a second

He was popular, that has very little with being a good wrestler. being a good wrestler helps you get popular, but in Hogan's case, it didnt.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> I have Hardy/Edge Summerslam at ****1/4, Great stiff contest and, *a grade A example on how you advance a feud*.


This. It set the tone perfectly for the matches to come and made you want more.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It made you want to watch Matt Hardy EVISCERATE Edge after everything Edge had done to him.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

everyone knows the real best way to further a feud is having a heels vs faces tag team match on smackdown tonight playa

duh


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I disagree somewhat. Now I prefer a different style, but it wasn't just his charisma.. pro wrestling isn't just hold for hold anyway.. You have to make people care. Hogan couldn't out wrestle anyone but you can't say that people didn't care to see him win. 

I'm not saying he's HBK or even John Cena but doing as little as possible and staying over for as long as Hogan did is impressive.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

JESUS CHRIST.

This Roddy Piper vs Bret Hart match on the Nitro Vol 2. DVD may be the worst Bret match that I have ever seen, just fucking atrocious. WCW has a knack for taking awesome Wrestlemania matches and ass fucking the ever loving life out of them, don't they?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Because of his charisma

I wont deny his absurd popularity. But asides from his matches vs Rock, Warrior, Piper and his WCW cage match with Flair, most of the time he just looked like he didnt give a fuck in the ring


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Worst ending to a match ever: Mankind/Michaels Mindgames.

PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF. I was loving that match until that nonsensical brawl. WHY?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

because BRAWLING~! makes everything better

especially nonsensical brawling

I more or less gave up on talking about mindgames at this point. The ending is bad to an absurd degree


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Mark Henry v Matt Hardy - ECW (8/19/08)*
Pretty much exactly what you'd expect from these two; a really good match. Do people realize how good a seller Mark Henry is? I'm not sure if they do. Matt goes after his leg early on here and Henry sells it like a champ. Eventually Mark gains control and it's Hardy's turn to go above and beyond with his selling. I usually can't stand bearhugs but when Matt Hardy's on the receiving end it's okay. Classic babyface showing from Matt working from the bottom and clobbering cutoffs by Henry make for a strong control segment. Matt finds his opening and strings together aerial offense for nearfalls, the closest being a Twist of Fate but Tony Atlas is on the outside to save Henry. Mark nails the World's Strongest Slam and retains the title. Well structured match with good indivdual performances from both men. Thumbs up.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Also, Orton/Cena ending from Breaking Point 2007 was perfect for that match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Batista Cyber Sunday had a pretty shit ending, no creativity at all, just two bombs in a row and that's it.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Too quick for me

I loved the match

The ending worked, BUT, Orton tapped WAAAAY too quickly. Cena shoulda kicked his ass for a short while before locking in the arm STF

You know, turn the match into a short texas bullrope match then ending it


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh c'mon. That was effective.

Batista had never done 2 Batista Bombs in a row ever before. He did that defeated the Undertaker CLEAN. That was pretty good and simple, I thought.

Finishers doing what they're supposed to be doing, even against the Undertaker, was the point imo.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

cyber sunday was a weak point in their series IMO

still not sure what the point of austin being there was either


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cyber Sunday is the best match in the series .

The visual of Orton being locked in the STF while grasping for the key to the handcuffs to absolutely no avail was fucking brilliant.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Oh c'mon. That was effective.
> 
> Batista had never done 2 Batista Bombs in a row ever before. He did that defeated the Undertaker CLEAN. That was pretty good and simple, I thought.
> 
> Finishers doing what they're supposed to be doing, even against the Undertaker, was the point imo.


Meh, I would rather see flashy reversals into a batista bomb than just two hits in a row, I understand the first one being hit in simplistic fashion but the second, no, there has be an inbetween, counters or something.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Cyber Sunday is the best match in the series .
> 
> The visual of Orton being locked in the STF while grasping for the key to the handcuffs to absolutely no avail was fucking brilliant.


sorry man, just too quick for me

After that match, i REALLY wanted Cena to kick orton's ass, hence why it the ending bugs me


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> cyber sunday was a weak point in their series IMO
> 
> still not sure what the point of austin being there was either


I wouldn't say that around Cal, .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ Orton trying to literally BLOW CENA UP in the Ironman match only for them to continue having a normal wrestling match afterwards.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

best. spot. ever


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

See, the Mind Games ending didn't bother me. I love that match, an underrated classic in my eyes. I admit, the ending was somewhat anticlimactic, with Taker just showing up and there being a DQ, but the thing is that it didn't hurt either guy. Cena/Lesnar, Brock's momentum came to a crashing halt and totally destroyed his mystique. For what purpose? To give Cena a win that he didn't need? With Shawn/Mankind, they wanted to keep the belt on Shawn and they wanted to keep Mankind strong for his feud with Taker. In a way, the DQ ending was really the only option, though I've said many times that if both guys can't afford a loss that they should just be kept away from each other. Neither guy's momentum was hurt in that case and they both came out of it looking fine. Brock...not so much.

Let's also not forget that Mankind didn't return after an 8 year absence under a limited date, 5 million dollar contract, then was given a crazy 1 month super build all to build up to a pointless loss that got mentioned a whopping 1 time the next night on Raw.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

meh, I think Brock should lose

last time they fed the entire roster to him he walked out and left them looking hopeless and weak

honestly, fuck him.

as for mindgames, its not that it ended DQ, its that the brawl was a clusterfuck. Cena vs Orton No way out 2008 ended in DQ and that was hilarious and awesome


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Too quick for me
> 
> I loved the match
> 
> ...


I think I gave this explanation once back in 2009 and again sometime later, but here goes.

Orton's torture of Cena was the entire story of the match. Orton had that mystic aura of being such a torturer, but the entire feud leading up to that point was characterized by Legacy, what I'd like to call for the purpose of this explanation, Orton's death eaters.

Harry Potter allegory ftw!

So, in my scenario, Orton is the Dark Lord and Cena is his ultimate victim, his archenemy. In the circumstance of his match at Breaking Point, he had to go it alone against Cena. Legacy had already been neutralized by DX earlier in the night.

This was a huge blow to Orton, but kept his dark aura and entered the match with Cena the way he'd enter any match. As he gained control, his aura began to build. The more he tortured his prey, the more powerful he felt.

Cena's enduring the pain is brilliant character portrayal (even if its Cena and they've really gone overboard with this Cena's endurance in the past few years). When Orton finally loses it and Cena handcuffs himself to him, he loses his confidence. His aura of invincibility quickly wanes.

No Legacy to help him and not in control of the match, the Viper quickly shows his true colours, the colours of a coward. By himself he is nothing and he proved that here.

Orton was completely antagonized here and I, for one, loved it. He was exposed for the fraud he is and eventually he overcame that and in doing so, he became far better (referring to his 2010 face-turn and 2011 run against heel Christian, which is definitely his best face work) and a crowd favourite. I think the 6 pack challenge at NoC where he won the title from Sheamus was a good arc in this progression.

I think the story is great. Sure, there's a lot of bullshit that happened between, such as the HIAC match against Cena where he had no business winning clean, although I did enjoy him losing his mind and trying to BLOW UP Cena at Bragging Rights.

I'm obviously not saying this was what they'd intended, but I like to think of it this way. Helps me enjoy the match more, because the way I see it, there was no pain that Cena could dish out that would punish him more than exposing him for the scared little coward he truly was inside.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Who knew Orton and cena were secret geniuses

god i love that blowing up cena spot


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not commenting on BROCK/Cena anymore as practically everybody knows what I think about it and WHY.

ANYWAYS, was doing a top 10 John Cena opponents ever write up with a format of "WHY SHOULD THIS PERSON BE IN THIS SPOT" and "WHY SHOULDN'T THIS PERSON BE MENTIONED" in kind of a pros vs cons type of thing. Might as well throw out the honorable mention just for the fuck of it shall I?

_Randy Orton

Why he *SHOULD* be on the list : Breaking Point 2009 and No Way Out 2008 are two character work masterpieces between John and Randy, with Breaking Point 09 essentially being the Viper’s magnum opus in terms of heelish work and the Lex Luthor to Cena’s Superman. The No Way Out encounter is actually one of the finest displays of straight up storytelling that I’ve ever seen as well, with the whole “I’m going to pin you JOHN BOY” story straight up stealing the show. In addition to the duo of near classic matches, there’s the Summerslam 2007 encounter which is a really good little main event match, and a couple of decent matches such as the 2009 Ironman littered in there as well. These guys have worked an astronomical number of matches between them.

Why he *SHOULDN’T* be on the list : For all of the GOOD that Cena and Orton have produced over the years, they’ve produced a ton of complete shit to go along with it ; Summerslam 2009 & HIAC 2009 being two horrendous WWE Championship matches on PPV to go along with one of Cena’s worst TV matches ever in the Tables match on Raw in 2010. Melodramatic bullshit between the two and forced epicness seems to do nothing but make the series feel dull and downright boring at times. Seems as if the amount of really bad matches they’ve had equals the number of near classics they’ve had which reminds me ; they’ve never had a legitimate classic together despite coming really close.
_​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> Taker/Batista Cyber Sunday had a pretty shit ending, no creativity at all, just two bombs in a row and that's it.


:hayley2


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

You disagree Hayley? Enlighten me cause maybe, i'm too thick to see it. :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Batista's urgency to not hot dog or complain following the kickout of the Batista Bomb was logical. He acted swiftly by going through with another Batista Bomb and it proved to be wise: Secured his long awaited victory over The Undertaker. I see no faults with that. Beats 1001 moves leading into a finish like in various other WWE matches or the Indies.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Batista's urgency to not hot dog or complain following the kickout of the Batista Bomb was logical. He acted swiftly by going through with another Batista Bomb and it proved to be wise: Secured his long awaited victory over The Undertaker. I see no faults with that. Beats 1001 moves leading into a finish like in various other WWE matches or the Indies.


I guess when you look at it like that, It's a decent ending. I didn't notice Batista not complaining towards Austin for a potential slow count. I guess you could say, Batista's motivational attitude towards winning and his non let going of the pressure on the deadman is what the ending was all about.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Batista/Taker CS talk? Niiiice. Wrestling wise it's easily their best one ever (WM23 had more of a blockbuster/epic style).

Which made me think about a Top 10 TT/CS matches, what I came up with was this:
1 - Flair/HHH '05 (****1/4)
2 - Flair/Orton '04 (****)
3 - Batista/Taker '07 (****)
4 - Taker/Show '08 (****)
5 - Cena/HBK/Angle '05 (****)
6 - HHH/HBK '04 (***3/4)
7 - HHH/Jeff '08 (***3/4)
8 - HHH/Umaga '07 (***3/4)
9 - Matt/Bourne '08 (***3/4)
10 - Kane/Snitsky '04 (***1/2)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I have Trips/Flair at ****3/4, one of my favorite matches ever. Regarding your list, It's pretty good, glad you put Sintsky/Kane on there.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Anyone else find it impossible to sit through Rock vs Mankind I Quit match without the urge to throw up?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I sat through Sabu/Joseph ParkAbyss BWM without throwing up, so that was "easy to survive" for me. But yeah, that match is beyond sickening. I wonder if it would've had the same impact if it was Mankind who went mad, turned into Cactus and hit all those chairshots on Rock's poor head


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Anyone else find it impossible to sit through Rock vs Mankind I Quit match without the urge to throw up?


If that's the one where Rock pelts him unnecessarily with a chair while he's handcuffed then yes, I feel similar. It just lost the point to its brutality and over-exceeded the amount of chair-shots that should ever be delivered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Anyone else find it impossible to sit through Rock vs Mankind I Quit match without the urge to throw up?


lolz, never.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

come on tbhaley, thoughts on the unprotected chairshots


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Proof Foley is a psycho in what he'd do for the biz. Never once made me sick to see it, though. Only time a moment like that has come from the sport, well ironically enough, was today when I watched a match from the recent NJPW iPPV. One of the guys broke his arm and the bone was noticeably out of place nearly sticking out of the skin. That was enough to make me cringe given the situation.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

yes but brain damage

we know what that shit does

your arm can get fixed but your brain is pretty much fucked for life

just ask nancy


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't think about crap like that while I'm watching wrestling. Plenty of moves to the head aren't good for anyone. Fuck if I care what they'll do when they're off my TV.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Why did The Rock hit him so many times?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

That match is sickening, some dude in the WWE section is trying to convince me, it was great, let alone MOTY. People outside here, have horrible taste in match quality, throwing that out there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like it. Been awhile since I last saw. Opinion probably won't change.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Batista at CS is _maybe_ my favorite of their series, another really good wrestling big man match, loved it.

Although, the Mania match had that big time feel obviously, my opinion may change on other watches lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's either one or the other with most folk. Two tremendous matches.

Backlash match is great in its own right. Gets lost in the shuffle. Cage I can't really comment on as idk much of it off the top of my head. Don't care for the HIAC match, personally.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rock/Foley at the rumble isn't a classic wrestling match and i can see why others have a hard time sitting through it but it's the perfect work from Foley especially because you feel like he will go through ANYTHING to get that belt and that's what we're missing today. That match made the championship look like the greatest thing in the world to those two. Rock was impressive because he showed a ruthless aggressive side that he had been hiding before.

I love that I Quit match personally. The ending was brilliant too because Foley quite literally after everything that has happened to him, didn't quit. But Rocky walked out with the title. Awesome match. I have _just_ woken up so i hope this worded okay


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

WOOLPUSSY said:


> Anyone else find it impossible to sit through Rock vs Mankind I Quit match without the urge to throw up?


If you mean in a way that the match is fucking horrible and boring then yes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Which is in your opinion the funniest match in WWE history?

HHH/Steiner legit made me roflmao.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just to give you guys a laugh, this was in the "Where would you place Edge in a greatest of all time list" thread.



PowerandGlory said:


> ahead of eddie behind both angle and jericho


EDGE

ahead of

EDDIE

:lmao :lmao :lmao

I'm so happy this thread doesn't attract idiots like that. Like, so so happy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gave Rock/Foley I Quit match ***3/4 on last watch earlier this year. Thought it was pretty great. I can easily sit through it, though that's mainly because I'm a cold, uncaring bastard who can easily watch one of his favourite wrestlers get beaten over the head repeatedly without giving a fuck. Rock can go to hell for doing it though, fucking piece of shit.

Batista/Undertaker CS match is awesome. Awesome awesome awesome. Neck and neck with the WM match for me. Love their entire 07 series. The two TV matches in 08 are good too. I like to pretend they never wrestled after that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Gave Rock/Foley I Quit match ***3/4 on last watch earlier this year. Thought it was pretty great. I can easily sit through it, though that's mainly because I'm a cold, uncaring bastard who can easily watch one of his favourite wrestlers get beaten over the head repeatedly without giving a fuck. Rock can go to hell for doing it though, fucking piece of shit.
> 
> Batista/Undertaker CS match is awesome. Awesome awesome awesome. Neck and neck with the WM match for me. Love their entire 07 series. The two TV matches in 08 are good too. I like to pretend they never wrestled after that.


Oh come on now, you love that chairs match







Ive never seen any of the '0 matches, think they had two or three on SD.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Watched Brock/Taker HIAC. One thing ruined it for me and that was Brock grabbing the ropes after the last ride. With it being no DQ etc I am pretty sure that grabbing the rope wouldn't help you in that circumstance, correct me if I am wrong though. The ending is still one of the best sequences of all time though.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Cookie Monster said:


> Watched Brock/Taker HIAC. One thing ruined it for me and that was Brock grabbing the ropes after the last ride. With it being no DQ etc I am pretty sure that grabbing the rope wouldn't help you in that circumstance, correct me if I am wrong though. The ending is still one of the best sequences of all time though.


I don't remember that match a lot but did the Ref stop the count after Lesnar got to the ropes?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cookie Monster said:


> Watched Brock/Taker HIAC. One thing ruined it for me and that was Brock grabbing the ropes after the last ride. With it being no DQ etc I am pretty sure that grabbing the rope wouldn't help you in that circumstance, correct me if I am wrong though. The ending is still one of the best sequences of all time though.


That's a little thing to me and wouldn't ruin a matcj, but I agree and think you're right. They did the same thing as well in the WWE Title EC in 09 when Taker hit the tombstone on HHH and HHH got his foot on the bottom rope.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Patrick Bateman said:


> I don't remember that match a lot but did the Ref stop the count after Lesnar got to the ropes?


Yeah, he just got given the last ride, the ref got to 2 and then Brock got his arm on the bottom rope and the ref stopped counting. 



Gamblor said:


> That's a little thing to me and wouldn't ruin a matcj, but I agree and think you're right. They did the same thing as well in the WWE Title EC in 09 when Taker hit the tombstone on HHH and HHH got his foot on the bottom rope.


It didn't ruin it completely but it's the sort of thing I'd knock the score down for. Heyman was superb on the outside, Brock looked like a million bucks and Taker had one of the best crimson masks of all time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

William Regal vs DH Smith, Superstars 12/30/2010 - ***1/2. Quite the AWESOME.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im attempting to watch this






whilst high


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

:vince2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Did Trip's start wearing different coloured trunks in 03 to compensate for his abysmal year in the ring? :hmm:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock vs Mankind in an I Quit match is one of my favourite matches ever. The match added to Mick Foley's character because he took so much in that match and still didn't quit. He fell on breaker boxes, was handcuffed and recieving the people's Elbow onto a chair on his head but he still refused to quit. I loved when Mick said "You'll have to kill me!" because that showed that Mick's reputation as a hardcore legend was on the line. That line really got to the Rock which led to those 11 brutal chair shots to the head. Ending was neat as well considering Mick didn't quit. The drama, character work (introduced a new vicious heel side to the Rock and showed the courage of Mick Foley) and storytelling were all awesome.

I can understand why people dislike the ending but it just shows how much of a legend Mick Foley really is. It's not like that was the last brutal bump he took on his career or that match ended his career. His match with Taker saw Mick taking a drop from the top of the cell but it just added to his hardcore career.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

I agree that the RR99 I quit isnt a classic by any stretch of the imagination but on the same token its basically a testament to Foley's career in the fact that he always pushed the envelope and carried out things in excessive way and I remember in his doc he says he always took that approach in order eliminate skepitsm regarding the Authenticity of his work. So the finish really played into that but again in his doc they say they both got carried away at he end. I actually just saw it about 5 day ago so its still fresh. A brutal encounter that is easily one of their best against one another. Though hard to put a rating on it Id agree with the ***3/4 sentiment..


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Brilliant Match I thought and the kind of story telling which gets everyone over, something which WWE don't care about these days.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched Scott Steiner vs Goldberg from Fall Brawl 2000 and I realized that more matches really need to end in a TKO. For some reason, it makes the win that much more effective for a guy to do that and the last person I can remember who used to do it would be REALLY EARLY in the career of Brock Lesnar, as he KO'ed the Hardyz a few times and it just put him over as a fucking monster.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw5kvn_scott-steiner-vs-cruiserweights-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport everyone should watch this Steiner match. Tons of fun. STEINER KILLS CRUISERWEIGHTS~!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HOLY SHIT.

That fucking "t-bone" off the top rope that was more or less a northern lights suplex!

HE'S JUST TORTURING THEM! TRIPLE STEINER RECLINER!

FIVE STARS.


----------



## jomo17 (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm wondering how to get my hands on a copy of Over The Edge 1999 - pretty sure it never got released cos of the Owen incident? If anyone has any leads, give me a heads-up please, appreciated!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*No Mercy 2006 Review
*











Matt Hardy vs. Gregory Helms

Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs. Idol Stevens & KC James (for the WWE tag team championships)

MVP vs. Marty Gartner

The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy 

Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero - Falls Count Anywhere Match

Chris Benoit vs. William Regal

King Booker vs. Lashley vs. Batista vs. Finlay (for the WHC)



*1.)* Matt and Helms had a really great series in 2006 but it often gets overlooked, as 2006 was such a good year for wrestling, in general, so yea, be sure to check out this fun little series when you get the time. Getting to the match, Helms rallying up of the crowd and gaining heat in the process was quite nice and portrayed his heelness very well, He commanded the match, the majority of the time, while Matt played the baby face hurt victim. The ending stretch was well executed with Helms hitting a neck breaker 3 times to put Matt away but to no avail, Matt eventually performs the twist of fate and covers Helms for the 3 count. 

Overall, This was a fantastic opener and maybe, Helms's best match in the WWE, If you discount his run as Hurricane, :lmao. Anyways, *** for me.

*2.)* Brian & Kendrick had been steamrolling through tag teams ever since their win at JD against MNM. This match begins with the execution of high flyer maneuvers by both London and Kendrick on the opposition. London takes a nasty bump off the top rope to the floor, this is to bring fourth the heel team's control segment, It's mainly consistent of rest holds and numerous in & out tags. There is an awesomely executed teasing of the tag to Kendrick, with Idol pulling him off the apron, not allowing London to make it. He finally does however and Ken is a fireball of dropkicks. London performs a cool looking dive on Stevens which from a step forward could of been through the announce table. In the end, Ashley and McCool both make run-ins and cause a bunch of non-mentionable shenanigans, London eventually gets the win by hitting the running SSP and offenses of the like. 

Only ten minutes and this was one hell of a match, Just shows how good were Ken and Paul as a fully fledged tag team, The heels did their part too though. ***1/4, FUN.

*3.)* Just a squash match to (i guess) elevate MVP, Nothing note worthy, *.

*4.)* Oh yea, this is where things start to feel big, Taker-Kennedy, :mark:. Ken decides to cut a promo pre-match and tells the fans to shut their mouths, he gets the usual cheap heat, which is obvious with them being casuals and all. Taker brings the hurt to Ken for the opening segments of the match, He uses Ken's arm as a bull-eyes and hits shoulder blocks and such for an attemptive old school but as Taker performs it, Ken hits a huge arm drag off the top and sends Taker flying. Kennedy tries to take advantage but Taker makes an inevitable comeback and hits an old school on succession, this time. After a few of back and fourth action, including the taking off of the turnbuckle cover, Taker taking a piledriver and Kennedy taking a chokeslam. I found the ending quite hilarious, well because Kennedy hits a Kenton Bomb off of the ropes, only for Taker to no sell and sit right back up, Ken then says fuck this and grabs his US title to try and clock Taker with it, only to get a right hand for his efforts and an own title smack for the DQ win. But, what's even funnier is Taker destroying Charles Robinson for Disqualifying him. :lmao.

Even though the finish was clustered as clustered could be. This match was great and the second best of their series (SS being the first). Ken control segment did drag on a bit, but really picked up when he hit the piledriver. It should of been shorter and had a better finish, but it did amuse me. So i'm gonna put this match at ***3/4.

*5.)* This match is assumingly built on hatred, but when i look at these two, I see more passive aggression than anything, I don't whether it's Chavo's fake facial expressions or Rey being toooooooooooo much of a fan pandering, kid hugging baby face. Anyways, This is still a pretty good match for its stipulation (falls count anywhere). The spots were very creative and the crowd brawling actually worked for once. The ending was kinda awkward to say the least, Rey dives onto Chavo from a metal railing, the referee counts the 3 like 5 times and kept on putting his hand under Chavo to signal something. Weird ending but a great, crowd infested, spots galore (Thanks KOK, ) encounter. ***1/2.

*6.)* Yum Yum, Regal-Benoit in a singles match. The match starts off with these two technical junkies locking up in the center of the ring. I have to warn you though, there were lots of grapples and mat stylings in the opening, So if you're not into that kind of stuff, i suggest you fast forward a few minutes. Benoit then says fuck traditional wrestling and nails Regal with one hell of a chop and starts going all out on him. Benoit goes for the typical snap suplex but Regal blocks and snaps his head right up against Benoit's face, Benoit being the STIFF mofo fires back with his own headbutt and they get into a head banging, teeth rattling, blood busting war. One head butt's so hard that it busts Regal wide open, without a blade too. The often teased german suplex off the apron is utilized, Regal gains the control back and nails Benoit with a bunch of stiff knees and punches to the head. After a bit of (what looks to be) legit brawling, Regal kicks Benoit in the mouth and busts him open. Regal locks in a dragon sleeper? I don't know, It sure does look like one. Benoit twists his body into a suplex position and delivers one to Regal, then trips him and applies the cross face, Regal taps.

This match was fucking awesome. As legit as a singles WWE match can get, The technicality side in occupence with the stiffness of brute level is what made this match such a burst of AWESOME-SAUCE. ****1/4, a must see.

*7.)* I'm not going to do an overview of the main event like i did with Taker/Ken and Regal/Benoit, just more of a general thoughts text. The action was fast and hectic, never a dull moment. The finish, while being executed in crisp fashion, was very, very predictable. This wasn't really a mash up of all wrestlers going at each other but more of a one-on-one rampage. There was numerous encounters like, Batista/Lashley, Booker/Batista, Lashley/Finlay, Finlay/Booker. It all meshed well too. Overall, I'll probably give the main event a ***3/4, If not ****, It was simply enjoyable.​


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Regal/Benoit in 2006? Don't recall that at all, will check that out tonight for sure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Benoit/Regal '06? Watch it, it's 12 minutes of pure wrestling awesomeness. It's the match that 1st brought me into wrestling. DEM STIIIIIIF CHOPS, DEM HEADBUTTS, DEM APRON DDT's. That PPV is also one of my favourite ones ever.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*Some Austin WM Matches:*

Steve Austin vs The Hitman ****3/4 stars (One thing that really bugged me was that Austin completly no sold the leg work that Hart did, after Austin freed himself from the chair, for some time.)

Steve Austin vs The Headliner **** (I heard a lot of people not liking this match that much but I loved it for the fact that you could see how fucked up micheals back was and he still was willing to give everything to entertain us.)

Steve Austin vs The Great One ****1/4 (The end sequence with the chairshots and stuff drags way too much for my taste.)

btw. The commentary on for those Austin matches on his set is pretty fucking awesome, they should have done that with more matches.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Patrick Bateman said:


> *Some Austin WM Matches:*
> 
> Steve Austin vs The Hitman ****3/4 stars (One thing that really bugged me was that Austin completly no sold the leg work that Hart did, after Austin freed himself from the chair, for some time.)
> 
> ...





I agree. I think it'd be awesome if on every wrestler's documentary set said wrestler did commentary on every match of his they put on his DVD. Why not?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imma give a rewatch to Cena/HHH/Edge BL '06. Seen a lot of praise of it lately, so I thought I might enjoy it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Edge/Trips/Edge at Backlash is AWESOME.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Edge/Trips/Edge at Backlash is AWESOME.


u wot

I'm guessing it slightly beats out Edge/Batista/Edge/Undertaker/Edge @ Armageddon?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havn't fully watched the Austin DVD, thought he only did it for one match, but really enjoyed his commentary on the Bret Hart WM13 match, also although i own the DVD lol, havn't heard the *Triple H and Jonathan Coachman in the studio recoding the commentary* for the _Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (Street Fight)_ match from the Triple H: The Game DVD.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

greendayedgehead said:


> u wot
> 
> I'm guessing it slightly beats out Edge/Batista/Edge/Undertaker/Edge @ Armageddon?


Not even close 

Yeah the Backlash 2006 main event triple threat is AWESOME.

Watched Tista/Cena matches today

LMS: ****1/2* (fuck that ending tho seriously)
I Quit: *****


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some Three-Way Matches ratings:

Jericho/Angle/Benoit- WM16- ****1/2
Cena/HHH/Edge- Backlash 06- ****
Rock/HHH/Angle- Summerslam 00- ***1/2
Angle/RVD/Austin- No Mercy 01- ****1/4
Cena/HHH/Orton- WM24- ***


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock vs Mankind I Quit fucking rules. Fuck the haters.



KingOfKings said:


> _Randy Orton
> 
> Why he *SHOULD* be on the list : Breaking Point 2009 and No Way Out 2008 are two character work masterpieces between John and Randy, with Breaking Point 09 essentially being the Viper’s magnum opus in terms of heelish work and the Lex Luthor to Cena’s Superman. The No Way Out encounter is actually one of the finest displays of straight up storytelling that I’ve ever seen as well, with the whole “I’m going to pin you JOHN BOY” story straight up stealing the show. In addition to the duo of near classic matches, there’s the Summerslam 2007 encounter which is a really good little main event match, and a couple of decent matches such as the 2009 Ironman littered in there as well. These guys have worked an astronomical number of matches between them.
> 
> ...


Other than SS 09, they haven't had a terrible match IMO. It might be my favorite series of matches with Cena. Love how many of their matches are completely different. 



ATF said:


> Benoit/Regal '06? Watch it, it's 12 minutes of pure wrestling awesomeness. It's the match that 1st brought me into wrestling. DEM STIIIIIIF CHOPS, DEM HEADBUTTS, DEM APRON DDT's. That PPV is also one of my favourite ones ever.


Benoit's headbutts are fucking awesome!


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Orton defined the post 2006 WWE Era imo


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash '06*: 
What can I say other than AWESOME. For starters, the promo package for this match is pretty nice, though not of their best. With that said, the last time I watched this match I wasn't much into it for whatever reason, and I seriously regret that. The pace and flow is close to perfect for a Triple Threat. The opening bit where Cena and Trips beat each other and Edge stood there simply breaking their pin attempts was old school badassery, and so was the announce table-headsmash contest. The selling was equally excellent as not a single thing left unnoticed - Edge was groggy after the announce table-headsmash contest, every man sold every move very well, etc. Rest holds were kept short and all built into a nice counter or comeback. I can also say there are plenty of "tribute" callback spots in between: the SICKENING chairshot to Rock/Mankind, the STF on a bloodied Trips to Bret/Austin, the counters between Cena and Trips (especially the BEAUTIFUL Pedigree to STF counter) to Angle/Benoit, and some others. May I also add this was pretty brutal in itself - poor Trips was beyond a crimson mark. And if Edge didn't gain himself a concussion out of that chairshot, I don't know. Overall, this was legit. Really, really awesome. Triple Threat fans, this was for you.​*****1/4​*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I watched that match again not too long ago. Was pretty awesome and more brutal than I had remembered.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Someone was talking about a new Triple H set being released but I wasn't able to find anything on google. Does anyone have some information on that?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I only heard that it will be released in September


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

"A Triple H bio will be 3 disc DVD and 2 disc Blu-ray, hitting US stores on September 24th and UK stores on October 7th."

:mark:

Apparently Batista has been interviewed for it recently so that's cool. Full documentary will be amazing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> "A Triple H bio will be 3 disc DVD and 2 disc Blu-ray, hitting US stores on September 24th and UK stores on October 7th."
> 
> :mark:
> 
> Apparently Batista has been interviewed for it recently so that's cool. Full documentary will be amazing.












Can't wait for the whole DVD. Should be great.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Meh. I was kinda hoping there is already some kind of match list. Well, fuck me.

Anyway OMG I'M GOING TO BUY THAT GOAT SET FOR SURE!


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

The iron man v Rock and Last man standing v Jericho NEED to be on this DVD.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/Rock- Best IronMatch Ever


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Think they'll skim over his 03-4 work?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

UNRELEASED GAME GEMZ PLZ


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Think they'll skim over his 03-4 work?


Would be interesting to know who is picking the matches, probably WWE rather than Hunter himself id imagine.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Think they'll skim over his 03-4 work?


His '04 work is some of his best.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Think they'll skim over his 03-4 work?


They should NOT skim his 04 work. As far as 03 goes, matches vs HBK in December and vs Flair after JD are fucking awesome and Insurrextion Street Fight vs Nash should get a nod, but yeah all else is LOL.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Apart from 2000, 04-06 is where you'll find Trips' best work IMO.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

04 as in most of the year was spent feuding with Benoit either in the foreground or in background. 03 work SHOULD be forgotten about.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I hope they don't waste a lot of time on his face run.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I want Cena/HHH WM 22 on Blu Ray, unless this has been released on BR somewhere?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> 04 as in most of the year was spent feuding with Benoit either in the foreground or in background. 03 work SHOULD be forgotten about.


Ah true. Damn you Benoit. 

Would love them to put Summerslam '04 v Eugene on it, or the first Raw match with Shelton Benjamin but Benoit might have been at ringside for that.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

If there will be a HHH/Cena Match on the set, it should be the NoC one. ****, that match was great


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Not arguing there but Cena/HHH WM 22 is a personnel favorite of mine and i would love to have it on BR


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thinking of doing a project of unk 2012 title defenses, I have all this papers and stuff to do but I may do that. I started the royal rumble and his 1/2/12 match with ziggler yesterday


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

So hyped for that HHH set, hoping for some TV gems and a great doc. Batista being interviewed for it is awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> So hyped for that HHH set, hoping for some TV gems and a great doc. Batista being interviewed for it is awesome.


Yeah, hopefully we get some insight to the HIAC match, which i assume will be on there.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I am now about to watch the Benoit/Regal match from No Mercy 2006. Genuinely can't remember shit about this one, so pretty excited.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Antonio Cesaro vs Adrian Neville, NXT (4/25/13)*

Its a Clash of the Champions themed show so this one is for the US title. Nicely worked 10 minute match here which never really is paced in a way that allows it to become a MOTYC, but all the same its worth checking out. Cesaro looks slick and impressive in the early chain wrestling and they work a nice little comeuppance spot with Neville eventually breaking out of the grappling and catching Cesaro with a headscissors. Transition spot is really bossy with Neville taking a nasty looking bump into the ring post in a less nasty way than Hardy did @ Summerslam 2005. Cesaro's control segment doesn't set the world on fire but works in grounding Neville and drawing support, though the midair tilt-a-whirl backbreaker counter was very impressive. Neville's comeback is well fought for and sees some nice setups for his aerial offence and Cesaro has a really nice bit of concussed selling after taking a rough looking bump off of Neville's hurricanrana out of a powerbomb attempt. Finish is well done with Cesaro hitting a stiff running uppercut after crotching Neville on the turnbuckle and dragging him into the middle of the ring in the Neutraliser position.

Commentary highlight courtesty of one William Regal after Neville's crotched landing: "that's ruptured his custard". Never leave Regal, never leave.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal always throws out some awesomely random-insane line on commentary. He's the more sensical Dusty of this generation .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

He had another really great line when Cesaro was in control and the other guy pointed out something obvious and Regal remarked 'nothing gets past you does it?'. He was really good on commentary though. Put over the action well and made you think you were watching two gifted athletes giving it their all. Wanted to slap him when he said comparing Neville to Dynamite Kid was something significant though. No it isn't Regal. Dude is 1/10th as good as Marty Jones, Terry Rudge, Steve Grey & John Cortez  .


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Gotta Be honest... If that wm 22 match makes the DVD ill have to skip buying it because I can't in good conscience pay for that match in any way twice in my lifetime... Please put the NOC match if you have to put a cena match, it is superior in every way imaginable except maybe crowd noise...because that means so much to me


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Benoit/Regal was fucking great. Watching these two go at it is a real breath of fresh air. Benoit's vicious (and I mean vicious) headbutts made me cringe and couple that with his stiff chops to the open wound of Regal. Regal's facial expressions are always awesome, no exception here and his bloodied face when he has Benoit locked in the abdominal stretch is great. A clinic throughout, Regal fighting the Crossface at the end was a nice finish, and I loved watching the two just try and slap on as many submissions as they could. An easy *****1/4* rating.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Honestly, the ONLY way I'll ever buy a Triple H set of any kind is if they include the Rock/Triple H Iron Man match on it. Other than that, I can't see any reason to buy it.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> Honestly, the ONLY way I'll ever buy a Triple H set of any kind is if they include the Rock/Triple H Iron Man match on it. Other than that, I can't see any reason to buy it.


Triple H is the GOAT so I don't see any reason not to buy it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Just watched Jericho/Edge at Mania 26, jesus their feud was pretty awful. Just Edge chanting Spear every week.

Match was okay ***** at best.


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Just watched Chris Benoit vs Finlay from Judgment Day 2006 soild match 4 stars imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> Just watched Jericho/Edge at Mania 26, jesus their feud was pretty awful. Just Edge chanting Spear every week.
> 
> Match was okay ***** at best.


Yeah that whole feud and match disappointed me a lot. Was expecting big things but it just fell flat.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Edge is my favorite wrestler of all time and I despised the spear chants. They always sounded ridiculous to me. I have the match at ***1/2 though and actually really like it. Their cage match is pretty good as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of No Mercy 06, Smackdown from that year is really picking up now I'm one show away from NM. Just got done with the 2/9 show which was main evented by a six man tag involving Batista, Lashley and Cena vs Booker, Regal and Finlay. Solid, standard tag team stuff with Cena playing the FIP. I find his selling so hilarious. Good choice too as he's the best seller of the faces here. Wonder if KOK went through this match too for his Cena project.

No Mercy 2006 shaping up to be a fun show. Most importantly, BENOIT IS BACK! :mark: Now I may have the same passion watching these SD episodes as I do with Raw. (specially now Orton will finally have some direction with Rated RKO being formed)

P.S. Chops to the forehead fucking rule!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Just to give you guys a laugh, this was in the "Where would you place Edge in a greatest of all time list" thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's next - Edge carried the majority of workers he was against during his career? 

Hilarious.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Pure wrestling ability Edge would make my top 30 for sure. I just don't know where but Eddie is higher.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Might check out the "True Story" of Wrestlemania doc for the hell of it. Or Hart and Soul.

Fuck! There's too many to choose from.


Edit - Forgot about Savage's doc. Need to finish it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I already have 30 wrestlers off the top of my head I know are better than Edge.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge/Jericho WM26- ****


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Watched Finlay vs Regal Great American Bash from 2006 solid match from to great workers.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *Antonio Cesaro vs Adrian Neville, NXT (4/25/13)*
> 
> Its a Clash of the Champions themed show so this one is for the US title. Nicely worked 10 minute match here which never really is paced in a way that allows it to become a MOTYC, but all the same its worth checking out. Cesaro looks slick and impressive in the early chain wrestling and they work a nice little comeuppance spot with Neville eventually breaking out of the grappling and catching Cesaro with a headscissors. Transition spot is really bossy with Neville taking a nasty looking bump into the ring post in a less nasty way than Hardy did @ Summerslam 2005. Cesaro's control segment doesn't set the world on fire but works in grounding Neville and drawing support, though the midair tilt-a-whirl backbreaker counter was very impressive. Neville's comeback is well fought for and sees some nice setups for his aerial offence and Cesaro has a really nice bit of concussed selling after taking a rough looking bump off of Neville's hurricanrana out of a powerbomb attempt. Finish is well done with Cesaro hitting a stiff running uppercut after crotching Neville on the turnbuckle and dragging him into the middle of the ring in the Neutraliser position.
> 
> Commentary highlight courtesty of one William Regal after Neville's crotched landing: "that's ruptured his custard". Never leave Regal, never leave.


CLAUDIO VS. PAC!? :mark:

Where can I watch this?


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Anyone ever saw Punk vs Eddie Guerrero it was a good match and even Punk said he thought he was good until he faced Guerrero.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Went on a doc-watching binge the last few days. Watching Piper, Definitive Ric Flair, and LOD. All pretty good, but Piper's was especially boss.

Everyone see the WWE's list of 50 greatest WWE championship matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Let me guess, every match with The Rock from 2013 & Bret/Shawn Iron Man made it.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

shawn vs Bret is number 1 


:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


And Eddie JBL from JD Is omitted making the list completely worthless


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

bret/shawn iron man was number 1

lol

I still find it hilarious that WWE considers that their magnum opus

mostly since it was one of the few matches they actually pushed for its 'quality'


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nothing involving Rock from THIS YEAR is on it. Bret/Shawn SS 1997 and WM 12 bookend the list.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The ironman match being #1 insanely bad. Austin/Angle from Summerslam not even being on the list though is worse to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got to love how predictable WWE is.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So many things were wrong with that list. Bret/Shawn being number 1, Austin/Angle not being on the list, Punk/Bryan OTL being way too low, Benoit/Angle not being on the list (okay, we all knew that wasn't gonna be on the list due to outside circumstances, but it doesn't make it any less wrong), and a number of other things.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I kept looking for Benoit/Angle from the RR 2003, then it finally hit me why it wasn't there. 

Honestly, I didn't take too much issue with most of the matches. They probably should have just said, "here's the list, in no particular order".


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Kind of digging the True Story of WM doc though it's mostly for backstage footage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I did want to check that out myself. Could be a fun way to kill two hours.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I did want to check that out myself. Could be a fun way to kill two hours.


No, no, no. You're supposed to be watching Hardy vs. Callihan.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I did want to check that out myself. Could be a fun way to kill two hours.



You should. it's fascinating from an obviously outside and fan point of view.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

true story of wrestlemania was crap


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE even knows that all of The Rock's matches from this year were complete fucking garbage, OH WAIT.

They went back and changed Cena's top 50 matches ever to include the POS Wrestlemania XXIX match.

I suppose I'll trek into some more SCOTT STEINER awesomeness, his stuff just NEEDS to be seen.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

True story of WM was an interesting doc, not the best but interesting.

Watching Flair's Definitive doc and I'm fucking enthralled by what I've seen so far.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> No, no, no. You're supposed to be watching Hardy vs. Callihan.


Shoot. That went up in smoke on account of watching the 3/17 AJPW show. I'll do it once this blah edition of Impact ends. Guaranteed.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just found myself another PG Era GEM:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't go wrong with Regal and Christian. The current product would be like 6 times better if they had prominent roles.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I find both Christian and Regal extremely overrated. There is a reason why they have never had any sustained success at the main event level.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^:lmao


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Fandango said:


> I find both Christian and Regal extremely overrated. There is a reason why they have never had any sustained success at the main event level.


lol you probably think Miz is better than them.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

This is for the guy saying that Christian and Regal are overrated 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU2mn_S0kls


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Wow, I didn't know you people were so sensitive.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

^ hahahah anyways just watched Kane vs Taker from WM 14 **** I don't remember it being this good but I think the last time I watched it was like 5 years ago


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, the WrestleMania 14 match is great. It's getting a lot more love these days which is (Y)

Seems like one of those gems that sneaks up behind you after all these years.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ah that's something I'd definitely like to watch again. Too tired now but that and Cesaro/Neville are on the watch list for tomorrow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good plug. Reminded me I needed to download NXT right now.

Anyone see/hear about the one Main Event match this week? Sounds laughable despite Mark Henry being involved.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah I have to check out that Cesaro vs Pac match as well Cesaro vs high flyers is always fun to watch


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Anyone see/hear about the one Main Event match this week? Sounds laughable despite Mark Henry being involved.


Read the spoilers. Didn't watch it and don't plan to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thinking I may just delete it off my DVR, tbhayley.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Ah that's something I'd definitely like to watch again. Too tired now but that and Cesaro/Neville are on the watch list for tomorrow.


Good match that made great use of the time-frame (~10 minutes). 

I guess I was expecting more than what I got but Antonio was true to form here in ragdolling Neville and just showing everyone why he's the best in WWE right now. Really vicious match that blended each style so well and I hope we get to see a longer match down the line. This really needs to be checked out (as, too, for the rest of the show).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Late to the party: everyone dug the Shield vs Undertaker, Kane, & Danielson match on RAW, right?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Yup, Shield can do no wrong and of course Taker just being there bumps it up a tad ******


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Late to the party: everyone dug the Shield vs Undertaker, Kane, & Danielson match on RAW, right?


Wasn't truly in the mood while watching Raw but, even so, I loved the match that they brought to the table. Great booking and Ambrose getting another clean win in for The Shield (especially over those involved) made my heart flutter.

Vince/HHH must really believe in The Shield and that thought makes me happy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everyone BELIEVES in The Shield.

God I can't wait for SD to show up online.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

It's actually interesting to think who WILL defeat The Shield and how?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Here's the answer to who will beat Shield: :cena3, :HHH2 and perhaps :rock3. 



HayleySabin said:


> Good plug. Reminded me I needed to download NXT right now.
> 
> Anyone see/hear about the one Main Event match this week? Sounds laughable despite Mark Henry being involved.


Incredible how Main Event went from the best TV show in the WWE with all the Sheamus/Zigglers, Miz/Zigglers and Sheamus/Punks in the world, to just Superstars 2013 V2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cookie Monster said:


> It's actually interesting to think who WILL defeat The Shield and how?


:cena4










:troll


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Undertaker vs Ambrose was a fun match,i think what happened after the match was brutal and i don't know how Taker took that beating if he is really hurt and in alot of pain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Yup, Shield can do no wrong and of course Taker just being there bumps it up a tad ******





Rah said:


> Wasn't truly in the mood while watching Raw but, even so, I loved the match that they brought to the table. Great booking and Ambrose getting another clean win in for The Shield (especially over those involved) made my heart flutter.
> 
> Vince/HHH must really believe in The Shield and that thought makes me happy.


(Y)

Great match. Didn't think it had a chance in hell to happen. Now Undertaker is working Smackdown vs Ambrose? idk what is going on with this change, but it is so, so, SO welcomed by me. Shield vs Taker, Kane, Danielson rematch at Extreme Rules with a gimmick please.



ATF said:


> Incredible how Main Event went from the best TV show in the WWE with all the Sheamus/Zigglers, Miz/Zigglers and Sheamus/Punks in the world, to just Superstars 2013 V2.


In no time too. Sad.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You know i never watch SD nowadays, but its on fucking record for tonight, thanks to the Taker 

I believe the Ambrose match is quite short, but fuck it i dont care, its blooming great it happened in the first place, the aftermath sounds brutal too, hope they show that too on TV.

Oh, just got *Best Of Nitro: Vol 2 DVD* through the post, that is my weekend watch me thinks


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hope it isn't like how Undertaker vs McIntyre was from 2010. That ended up being a two minute squash and I was quite 

If this is an actual match: OH MY YES :mark: _(Taker vs Rollins next *please*. I can die happy.)_


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> CLAUDIO VS. PAC!? :mark:
> 
> Where can I watch this?


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...watch-online_sport?search_algo=2#.UXpuMsqGXeE

There you go.

Got Punk/Mcmahon & Hardy/Callihan on tap today. Should be interesting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk/McMahon?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Taker and Ambrose is 6 minute long.Fun match and what happened after the match was brutal.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Hope it isn't like how Undertaker vs McIntyre was from 2010. That ended up being a two minute squash and I was quite
> 
> If this is an actual match: OH MY YES :mark: _(Taker vs Rollins next *please*. I can die happy.)_


I guess something at 5 and so minutes ain't too bad:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Punk/McMahon?


Their match from Raw last year where Punk was at his peak as the prized dickhead torturing his crippled soon to be pensioner boss. Haven't seen it since the week it aired but Yeah1993 wrote a scorching review of it the other day that had me wanting to rewatch it asap.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It wasn't even a match. Got thrown off there.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Oh, just got *Best Of Nitro: Vol 2 DVD* through the post, that is my weekend watch me thinks


That's strange, I pre-ordered this and I'm in the UK but didn't get mine  Received the email yesterday saying it had been shipped.

I got my Royal Rumble 2013 Blu-ray on the Friday before release date too. Disappointing.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Ambrose vs Taker was okay for what it was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> That's strange, I pre-ordered this and I'm in the UK but didn't get mine  Received the email yesterday saying it had been shipped.
> 
> I got my Royal Rumble 2013 Blu-ray on the Friday before release date too. Disappointing.


Im surprised it has arrived early, i never usually pre order anything lol, very pleased  You'll probably receive yours tomorrow, blame the post tbh


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I saw Royal Rumble '13 BR for £12 online this week and was tempted to just get it for my collection but i honestly think that's one PPV i think i'll skip everytime. It still haunts my nightmares from time to time.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Just when I finally decided to view Main Event on a weekly basis it turns into Superstars V2. So glad, I saw someone post that fact as well as it was the first thing that stood out to me when I got into it. It's that damn Wrestlemania season!

The show is nothing but a bunch of recaps now. 

Anyway, about to go download NXT from this week. Cesaro/Neville sounds interesting. Also, does anyone know why the main roster has been invading NXT as of late? I mean, the main stars appearing on the developmental shows is nothing out of the ordinary but it seems as if these guys are both part of developmental and the main roster. For example, Justin Gabriel, Funkadactyls, Shield.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Justin Gabrial barely appears on the main programs.. I think most of the main roster guys appearing on NXT is just to boost ticket sales..

John Cena is making a special appearence at the 5/2 NXT taping and it's already sold out for example.

Another reason could be that some of the developmental talent is not ready for tv.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For the first time in fucking donkey's years, think ill give *HBK/Foley: Mind Games* a watch in a bit, swear its been over 10 years since i have watched it, can barely remember it tbh.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The 2004 best of pack i just downloaded doesn't have Trips/Eugene from Summerslam.

This is the darkest timeline.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well then it CLEARLY isn't a 'best of 2004' pack unless the awesomeness that is Triple H vs Eugene is unleashed inside of it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

It even has Batista & Flair/ Dudleys from the rumble.

WHAT. THE. FUCK. :lmao

Gotta say though, going through them it's great to see Billy Kidman when he was the heel who had the "most dangerous" move the WWE had ever seen. His Shooting Star heel phase was AWESOME.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Gotta say though, going through them it's great to see Billy Kidman when he was the heel who had the "most dangerous" move the WWE had ever seen. His Shooting Star heel phase was AWESOME.


Agreed. They dropped the ball on him not shortly after, shame, Kidman was my favorite cruiserweight wrestler back then.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I loved Kidman and London as a tag team in 2004. It was a very good underdog team who beat the Dudley boys on Velocity and then went on to defeat them again on SD! for the titles. I thought the storyline of the SSP botch was done well as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

finally got ECW ONS 06 through the post today. Completes my 2006 WWE PPV collection. And its the version that comes with the first ever ECW PPV. I put the disc in to give it a go... and fuck me, I couldn't sit through a single match. Was just terrible :lmao. I will never "get" the original ECW as long as I live. It DID have some good stuff during its time, but I could probably name everyone who contributed to the good stuff on one hand and have some fingers left. Ah well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ONS 2005 sucks so much. I also had a hard time sitting through the matches. As a matter of fact, I don't think I watched any match in its entirety except for Storm vs Jericho. The other matches..meh. Once Super Crazy does that moonsault off the second floor 2 minutes into the match....and the match still had about 10 more minutes to go, I pretty much saw enough.

'06 is a little better in the sense that it did have Edge/Foley vs Funk/Dreamer and hey Cena/RVD is good for the crowd. Tazz/King opened nice. Don't recall much from Angle/Foley and I haven't seen it since 2006. 

I can never understand the hype for ECW tbh. It represented everything that is wrong with pro wrestling and imo it hurt the business really badly. I like to think the spotty style of pro wrestling to day is as a result of young, aspiring wrestlers trying to emulate "OMG! Jerry Lynn vs RVD! 5 starz!!"

I also do not agree with the notion that Paul Heyman is one of the best wrestling minds. He may have been good at creating storylines but this is pro wrestling. A 12 year old can write a pro wrestling storyline. It's not pro wrestling storylines are Oscar worthy. There's a big difference between writing a storyline and booking and promoting. As a promoter and booker, Heyman sucked. Why? Because for Christ's sake CZW has lasted longer than ECW. A lot of people say "yeah he was a good booker, but shitty businessman" Hello.....wrestling is a business! The two go hand in hand. 

Don't get me wrong, Heyman wrote quite frankly one of SD's best years but the guy isn't Wrestling Jesus. If Heyman was the great wrestling genius that everyone makes him out to be, ECW would have never folded.

In closing, I would just like to point out that yes- The Attitude Era did rip off ECW. But they did it so much better than ECW ever did.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:mark::mark::mark: at the ending to Smackdown. My favorite guys past and present at the ring at the same time. Though that probably won't be shown on TV.

Imagine CM Punk vs Shane McMahon (in his athletic prime). That could have been pretty nice.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

No spoilers but the ending most likely won't be shown on TV? Yes or no? Again, NO SPOILERS.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Team Hell No & Taker vs. Shield was hella fun. 

It's great to see Taker looking in the shape he's in and he looks like he can go for another 5 years, which I wouldn't be mad about. Taker at this point is my favorite part timer. He could wrestle once a year if he chose to and I'd love every fucking second of it. It's weird because when I see other part timers wrestle (outside of maybe Brock), it doesn't feel special like Taker does. I'm hoping he decides to work some more PPV matches because he's just seriously awesome. He's reminding me of Terry Funk at this point. Just an old, tough motherfucker that can still go who wants to remind these young fuckers who's yard it still is. 

Bryan was awesome in this match too. He's probably the closet we'll ever get to Benoit again. He just can't have a bad match/performance. Always shines and makes everyone look great along the way. Watching him interact with the crowd is such a joy. I really hope the company takes a chance on him again someday, I think they will.

Rollins looked like an absolute fucking star as well. I can't speak more highly about his exchanges with Bryan and Taker, just awesome. I really wish they'd given him the chance to work with Taker on Smackdown instead of Ambrose, but fingers crossed they're saving that for a PPV this year. :mark:


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> No spoilers but the ending most likely won't be shown on TV? Yes or no? Again, NO SPOILERS.


The important ending will be shown. The stuff with HHH and the outlaws likely not.. It screams send the live crowd home happy (and if it is, I'll be shocked...)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Late to the party: everyone dug the Shield vs Undertaker, Kane, & Danielson match on RAW, right?


Certainly. The finish was weak but otherwise it was great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Even though this is the WWE and owned stuff section, what are your Top 10 Bound For Glory matches?

Styles/Daniels Iron Man
1st ever Monster's Ball
Sabin/Low Senshi Kaval
XXX/LAX Cage
Christian/Joe
Angle/Sting I
4-Way Tag Team Monster's Ball
Angle/Jarrett I
Ultimate X '09
Roode/Storm Street Fight

These are mine in chronological order.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_RISE ABOVE HATE : Saluting John Cena’s 100 Greatest Matches_

When CM Punk lost the WWE Championship to The Rock at the Royal Rumble in one of the worst main event contests ever, things seemed quite dark for the quality of the main event scene in the WWE. Awful promo after awful promo after awful match, some of us searched for the guy who was going to get us back to the high quality we’re used to seeing, and that guy is and always will be JOHN CENA. Yeah I know, a lot of people may laugh at the notion of John Cena being a quality powerhouse inside of the ring but it’s seemingly becoming more well known every single week that through thick and thin and all of the bad storylines and angles that the E’ is cranking out these days, we can always rely on good ol JOHN BOY to deliver in that ring and give us a consistently good in-ring product.

That’s why I set out to do this ; there’s still a ton of doubt when it comes to Cena as a worker and I want to put an end to it once and for all. While I may be more of a fan of CM Punk overall, everybody and their mother knows that Punk is an innovator in the ring and perhaps the greatest overall talent in North America today, while Cena gets almost universally bashed for his “lack” of wrestling ability ……. By individuals who would define ‘wrestling ability’ as an ability to pull of moves crisply and work a more ‘technical style’ ; another made up term by individuals who despise the Cena character. When looking for a comparison to Cena’s style and how he works a bulk of his matches I set out and looked at some old tape of babyfaces past and present. Is Cena like Hogan in the sense that he has a set finish and a tired formula? Sometimes, but Hogan delivered matches like that on PPV as well as on TV, whereas Cena seems to only coast on a few of his TV squashes with the Hogan formula. Austin? Please, during Austin’s main event run he relied heavily on brawling as it was the attitude era style at the time, so that comparison is null and void. Is it Rock? I don’t believe so, as The Rock relied heavily on his athleticsm in the ring to make things work, and less on concrete storytelling.

So Cena’s main comparison to me and the obvious one that jumps out is simple ; Bret ‘Hitman’ Hart. Now I know that if anybody who happens to be a Cena hater comes across this post, their head will explode at the very notion of Cena being compared to the hitman due to Bret being a ‘technical wrestler’. While it may be true that Bret was more ‘crisp’ in the ring than John, it becomes increasingly obvious when comparing the two that they work similar styles against similar opponents. Take Bret vs 1-2-3 Kid and compare it to Cena vs Rey and tell me that Bret and Cena aren’t really close knit when it comes to their storytelling, same with Bret/Cena vs any monster that’s being thrown at them. They both take their regular movesets and mix them up to suit their opponents and I’ll always admire it about both John Boy and Bret, as two of them would fall into my top 10 favorite performers of all time. 

However this piece isn’t about Bret, that was just to illustrate who I’d compare Cena as a worker to when the chips are down and I NEED to make a comparison. This is about Cena’s greatest matches, and since I’ve went back and watched 512 John Cena matches for this, I think I’m a prime candidate to tell you that John Cena just might be one of the most underrated workers of the last decade as he’s not just good …. He’s simply FANTASTIC at times. So here you have it, I’m going to release these lists in 10’s and the criteria is going to be simple ; no Cena match is off limits for this one. We’re going to kick things off in the three star range as I have 112 matches from Cena at three stars or over, and although some of them don’t make the cut I can tell you that a bulk of Cena’s matches WILL indeed fall over the two star mark for sure. 

So without further ado, here's 100-91 in my _TOP 100 JOHN CENA MATCHES COUNTDOWN_ (all matches here at *****) :

91.	Vs Randy Orton (Summerslam 2007)

92.	Vs Shelton Benjamin (RAW 12/26/05)

93.	Vs Chris Jericho (RAW 2/2/09)

94.	Vs Edge (RAW 3/2/2009)

95.	Vs Johnny Nitro (RAW 12/11/06)

96.	Vs Jack Swagger (RAW 4/13/09)

97.	W/HBK vs Batista/Undertaker (Raw 3/26/07)

98.	Vs Edge (RAW 12/18/06)

99.	W/CM Punk vs The Big Show/Daniel Bryan (RAW 8/13/12)

100.	Vs Kane (Ambulance Match; Elimination Chamber 2012)​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Match #100 is ASS. 

-------------------------------------

*United States Championship
*Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. Adrian Neville (_NXT 4/25/13_)

This is somewhat of a dream match for me because to my knowledge it never happened on the indy scene (which is amazing). Or at least if it did it's from a company I don't follow and probably before PAC was a big name. Anyway, really fun match. Cesaro does everything he can to just ground Neville and not let the crowd get involved in the early minutes before Neville ultimately gets the comeback sequence, which is of course beautiful to watch. Nice nearfalls near the end & an awesome finish. Claudio vs. ANY high flyer or smaller guy is gonna be fun at the very least. **** 1/2*

Also thanks to WOOLCOCK for the link. (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I better damn get both Singles matches vs Bryan (Velocity in 2003 and Raw last year) on this list, KOK.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/4 for Cesaro/Neville, PAC was fuckin awesome here


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Match #100 is ASS.


I'm going to defend that match until the day I die, love it in a million different ways, Cena's transition from serious Cena to smiling Cena all while destroying Kane is pretty excellent .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton match from SummerSlam 07 is way too low, otherwise a nice start.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Aw man, can't you just post the whole list at once. :cena


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Shut up Christian Bale, go scream at a director or something. .


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

So I watched Lesner v Angle Iron man today and found it to be excellent, loved Lesner playing dirty to gain an advantage and how Angle was so close but it proved to be too much, well booked with some excellent wrestling.

****1/2

Best Iron man match? Gotta be that or Trip-Rock for me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Surprised to see Orton/Cena SS '07 at ***. Usually it's touted as one of their best encounters.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I found that if you watch the match, there's a hot crowd throughout but for the first half of the match they (Cena & Orton) aren't really doing anything special at all, really dull shit. Then they move onto some great stuff in the latter half of the match and overall I think it's a really good bout, I just don't see the SPECIAL aspect of it that others tend to see from time to time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

how dare you making for of the best actor in the world (bale) liek that lol. Im taking a break for some school work and continuing my punk 2012 project, up next the raw ec 12.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

both 2012 EC matches are so bad. 

Great list so far KOK, i too am a big fan of that tag with Punk against Bry/Show. People forget that there was pretty much an awesome TV match every week in 2012. Hated year and i really don't actually see why unless you hate unk


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I found that if you watch the match, there's a hot crowd throughout but for the first half of the match they (Cena & Orton) aren't really doing anything special at all, really dull shit. Then they move onto some great stuff in the latter half of the match and overall I think it's a really good bout, I just don't see the SPECIAL aspect of it that others tend to see from time to time.


Been a long time since I watched it but I thought every part blended together perfectly with everything they did from the beginning up until the finishing stretch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't worry, Orton shall be seen again on the list, you'll just have to wait a little while to see him.

SO many good tags week to week in 2012 that barely missed the list featuring the likes of Punk, Sheamus, Big Show, & the like.


----------



## Cardiac Crusher (Jan 2, 2013)

Any wrestlemania without cenas face on the promotional poster is good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just finshed watching the raw ec 12 I might be the only person who really enjoyed it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have the 2012 RAW EC Match at **3/4. The main problem here was that there was no feud going on. Punk/Jericho had zero heat here and that pretty much destroyed the intensity of the match. The SD one was a different story I have it at ***1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ some of you will laugh at me, Im probably the only person that has it over ****. 4 out of the 6 a good wrestlers and the action in match isnt that bad


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

SD! Elimination Chamber 2012 was really good. Enjoyed Santino's performance in that match, probably his best match in the WWE. Big Show's breaking the glass was also a good moment in the match and it showed why having a giant in the match can really help. Also liked the Rocky Balboa tributes before the match :lol


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Best chamber match? For me, it's Survivor series 2002.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

New Year's Revolution 2005


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> New Year's Revolution 2005


Great story telling in that match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The SD 2010 Elimination Chamber Match is my fav. Have it at ****1/2. Morrison was just awesome here


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> both 2012 EC matches are so bad.
> 
> Great list so far KOK, i too am a big fan of that tag with Punk against Bry/Show. People forget that there was pretty much an awesome TV match every week in 2012. Hated year and i really don't actually see why unless you hate unk


Couldn't agree with you more. The best TV matches in '12 I can remember:

- Punk/Bryan I and II
- Sheamus/Jericho II
- Sheamus/Bryan Street Fight
- Miz/Ziggler Main Event
- Sheamus/Cesaro Sep.
- Bryan/Ziggler before SS
- Punk/Kane WWE Title
- Punk/Henry saga
- Sheamus/Punk Main Event
- Orton/Bryan I
- Cena & Punk/Show & Bryan
- Christian & Jericho/Miz & Ziggler
- Miz/Christian rematch
- Sheamus/Ziggler I
- Cena/ADR Falls Count Anywhere
- Cena/Bryan
- Rey/ADR/Kane/Bryan
- Orton/Barrett No DQ
- Sheamus & Orton/Jericho & ADR
- Rollins/Mahal NXT Title
- All Gabriel/Hunico/Kidd/Barreta one-on-one stuff

For the (un)credit he gets, Sheamus is quite the workhorse. WRESTLINGFORUM.COM, Y U HAVE NO SHEAMUS SMILEY GODDAMMIT.

Also, best EC is Survivor Series '02, but NYR '05 comes VERRRRRRY close.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

well let me start while I have the time
Rewatching all of unk 2012 ppv and title defenses . Probably one of the best in ring years ever.

1/2/12 Punk/Ziggler ***1/4 
-the ziggler promo from that show is his best ever

rr 12 Punk/ziggler ****
-underrated match,I may overrate it because it my two favs,ending is crap though)

raw ec 12 ****1/4
- I know Im going to get killed for this lol), it a very fun match, with punk/kofi being good start . Great character work by ziggler as usually, and Jericho still being booked strong at this point. Booker is comedy gold on commentary.They used the chamber well with some of painful bumps being taken (ziggler and kofi).Jericho leaving the match because of injury could have been handled better. Only problem I could find was their was no feud between any of them and they were all just put together for this match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk title defenses?

vs Ziggler Raw - ***
vs Ziggler RR - ***3/4
vs 5 guys in DA EC - **** (Don't care what most'll say, I love this superfun match)
vs Jericho WM - ****1/2
vs Henry I - ***3/4
vs Henry II - ***
vs Henry III - ***1/2
vs Jericho ER - ****3/4 (DAT MEGA INSANE STORYTELLING)
vs Bryan OTL - ****3/4
vs Kane Raw - ***1/4
vs Bryan vs Kane - ****
vs Bryan MITB - ****1/2
vs Cena Raw 1000 - **1/2
vs Cena vs Show - ***
vs Cena NOC - ****1/2
vs Ryback HIAC - **
vs Cena vs Ryback - ***1/4

One of the best in-ring reigns in recent history.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Punk title defenses?
> 
> vs Ziggler Raw - ***
> vs Ziggler RR - ***3/4
> ...


Yes Im not the only one . My first couple of ratings are similar or * off. On to wm 28 next


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I recall liking that Chamber too.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk had a series of matches with Mark Henry? Where was I during this


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They were on Raw in like April 2012. I think one was the same night BROCK returned iirc. Pretty LEGIT.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_RISE ABOVE HATE : Saluting John Cena's 100 Greatest Matches (90 - 76)_


76. Vs Edge (W/Mick Foley as Referee ; 2/13/06)

77. Vs HHH (RAW 3/29/09)

78. w/CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan/Chris Jericho (RAW 7/2/12)

79. Vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2005)

80. Vs Shelton Benjamin (RAW 7/10/2006)

81. Vs Umaga (Streetfight ; RAW 6/16/08)

(**** 1/4*)

82. Vs HHH vs Orton vs Big Show (RAW 6/15/2009)

83. Vs CM Punk vs Ryback (Survivor Series 2012)

84. Vs Lashley vs Mick Foley vs King Booker vs Randy Orton (Vengeance 07)

85. Vs Wade Barrett (Chairs Match ; TLC 2010)

86. Vs The Big Show (RAW 3/30/2009)

87. Vs RVD (RAW 5/26/06)

88. Vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 4/17/03)

89. Vs The Big Show (RAW 6/22/09)

90. Vs The Miz vs John Morrison (Steel Cage ; Extreme Rules 2011)

MEH, I wanted to post 25 a day for four days so I decided to just post another 15 for the hell of it. What we have here at the one quarter mark is simple; 18 television matches compared to just 7 PPV bouts, what does this say about Cena exactly? Well it certainly says that he's bringing an influx of great matches to TV and debunking the myth that Cena can only work large scale matches (WM XXVII & XXIX ringing a bell?).

I'm curious as to what matches everyone thinks is rated too low and what matches shouldn't be on the list at all at this point, I can point to the pair of Big Show matches as well as an underrated fantastic pair of TV matches against Nitro & Benjamin that just might happen to take the cake in terms of matches that are surprise picks, especially ahead of popular matches such as the Extreme Rules triple threat cage or the Summerslam 2007 bout with Randy Orton.

From 81 onwards we move into the matches that I have rated at four and a quarter so as you can see; things are starting to heat up and heat up fast they will. There were a few FUN multi man matches on here as well as some very good storytelling between Big Show and Cena that really gets me every single time that I watch it, as well another Edge match that never seems to get brought into the conversation whatsoever. You also have a few personal favorites of mine thrown in here on top of all of that such as the chairs match with Barrett and the Survivor Series triple threat.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Am I insane yet?

:cena3​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea I skipped ahead an watch one of their two matches. It was the miami raw. very fun match


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro/Neville (Y)

Not good enough to make my list but a really well worked sub-10 minute match. First time I've seen this PAC guy. Looks like a dude who could make a splash on the main roster.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Where'd you find it, Saint Dick? I'd like to watch it as well.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs. Carlito (Unforgiven 2006)-****
-I didn’t remember this match being that good, perhaps because it was in the Bermuda triangle of the card. They packed a lot into the roughly 10 minute match and Carlito messed up Orton pretty bad (internal injury maybe) but he soldiered through it and they put on a compelling bout; still love that RKO finish. I remember not caring for Carlito at all until like 2006 and my Orton fandom was at an all time high during this time, solid stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzv7nrvQfOE


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Orton/Carlito from.Unforgiven is a ** at max. imo


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

MoveMent said:


> Punk had a series of matches with Mark Henry? Where was I during this


Matches are on YouTube if you want to watch them:


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> They were on Raw in like April 2012. I think one was the same night BROCK returned iirc. Pretty LEGIT.


Don't remember that for some reason  gonna look for it though

EDIT:  thanks


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The one from the Raw after Mania 28 is highly regarded as TV MOTY.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...he-champions_sport?search_algo=2#.UXr35Er6fwx

Debate League OVERLORD


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb Thanks. 

Would :mark: if you had the time to join TDL again.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Really don't have the time right now man.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No worries, I figured you were short on time since you hadn't signed up already.

Never seen PAC before. He seems legit. Watching this makes me angry about what they're doing to Cesaro.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That Euro uppercut while Neville is on the turnbuckle =


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I remember very much enjoying the NO DQ match between Punk and Henry in England, the finish when Punk does a elbow drop with a chair onto Henry was awesome and was convincing way to put away the unstoppable Henry. The other match I don't remember too much of, might have to watch it again.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Henry:

4/2: ****
4/16: ***1/2


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Mark Henry is a terribly underrated worker. He does get some proper praise around here though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I like that he's Yeah1993's favorite wrestler.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MoveMent said:


> Mark Henry is a terribly underrated worker. He does get some proper praise around here though.




If anything he's a tad bit overrated on here IMO. He's good don't get me wrong, but I honestly don't think he's wwe championship material like lots on here think. I wouldn't mind another WHC reign tho.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Damn, I've just been watching Smackdown and I just finished watching Barrett vs Regal and it only went like 2 minutes. 

It could of had a lot of potential if it went longer, two good brawling Englishmen battling in front of a English crowd. With Smackdown being the wrestling show I can't see why they couldn't of give them like 8 minutes to put on a good match, would put over Barrett better then just having another pointless squash. Regal getting quickly squashed on both RAW and Smackdown in England when he's still a very good wrestler is (N).

Regal's t bone suplex to Barrett was great, though.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I like that he's Yeah1993's favorite wrestler.


Yeah1993 is a legend among civilians for a reason.



xdoomsayerx said:


> If anything he's a tad bit overrated on here IMO. He's good don't get me wrong, but I honestly don't think he's wwe championship material like lots on here think. I wouldn't mind another WHC reign tho.


He definitely is WWE championship material. His only downside is his injury problems but he has everything a big man needs in the WWE. He doesn't have a list of 'classic' matches but he's constantly put on solid matches. He knows how to work a match as a dominant big man but at the same time is a great seller which always can add a lot to a match and he of course is a solid mic worker. And there's also that moment when he became WHC and Smackdown's ratings went up almost instantly.

Mark 'Ratings' Henry


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk reign talk? :mark:

Fuck the haters, he had a great reign as champion.

Del Rio @ Survivor Series: *****
TLC: ****1/4*
Rumble: ****1/4*
EC: *****
WM: ******
HENRY I: *****1/2*
HENRY II: ****1/2*
ER: ****1/2*
OTL: *****3/4*
NWO: ******
MITB: ****1/2*
RAW 1000: ***1/2*
SummerSlam: ***1/2*
NOC: *****1/2*
HIAC: ****
Survivor Series: ***3/4*
TLC Ryback: ****1/4*
Rumble: *DUD*


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*John Cena vs. Edge vs. Triple H (Backlash 2006)-***-*****
-Good triple threat here. What was weird about this match was that technically Triple H was a heel but the style he worked bounced back and forth between full heel and babyface and less tweener-ish. Yeah they did the typical 1 on 1 pairings within the match but they made it work here without keeping a third man out too long. When HHH is catapulted into the steel post you know he’s going to bleed lol. I’ll never like Edge as a heel but all one has to do is look at this match and understand why the RAW brand needed a new top heel because fans just weren’t going to buy HHH at this point.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6zrr1_triple-h-vs-cena-vs-edge-backlash-2_sport#.UXsAaDeoj-A


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just finished watching Undertaker vs Ambrose. It was a good match and wasn't a squash like you might expect, and Ambrose got a decent amount of offense in and controlled parts of the match. There was some false finish moments and Ambrose gets a low blow in on Taker when The Shield are distracting the ref, and hits a sweet DDT for a near fall, but then, Taker out of blue locks in the Hells Gate for the victory. The Shield then immediately beat down Taker, Taker tries to make a comeback, but gets speared through the barricade by Reigns and gets triple powerbombed through the table to great heat from the crowd, there's also some ''you tapped out'' chants to Ambrose which is funny.

I assumed Taker would be gone after their match on RAW, but it's a pleasant surprise to see Taker working some TV matches, especially on Smackdown which was always his show, working with young talents in The Shield is a great honor for them and it helps establish them more. Not many young, up-and-coming talents can say they've faced The Undertaker. I'm not too fussed that Ambrose lost, I don't see how people can complain about it, they're all bound to lose eventually and who better to lose to than Taker?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Punk's reign was garbage

LOOK AT HOW BAD THOSE RATINGS WERE, HOW CAN YOU BE ENTERTAINED WHEN HE DRAWS A 2.1??!!!!????


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Especially if Ambrose hits a DDT and Taker locks in a desperation Hell's Gate. Rookie mistake to walk right into it - makes perfect sense. They end up getting the rub by taking out Taker after the match anyway.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I have no problem with anyone losing to Taker at this point. I mean getting the opportunity to work with Taker in any capacity, especially at the tail end of his career that's huge business for the Shield's stock.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The aftermath of the Taker - Ambrose match was simply awesome. Everything from Undertaker battling the Shield by himself, using chairs, to DAT SPEAR from Reigns and the eventual triple powerbomb. 

What does everyone think Taker's role will be at ER rules or possibly in the near future? I'm surprised he decided to work two TV matches in a week. Especially considering those matches took place in the UK.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Jbardo said:


> So I watched Lesner v Angle Iron man today and found it to be excellent, loved Lesner playing dirty to gain an advantage and how Angle was so close but it proved to be too much, well booked with some excellent wrestling.
> 
> ****1/2


Definitely a great match, thought it was their best match. Just watched a few days ago myself. Loved Lesnar trying to cheat to get the advantage at first and Kurt eventually turning the tides while Brock takes a powder. Brock played such an excellent heel in the match. :genius


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I have a feeling the aftermatch was a way to write Taker off for awhile and put The Shield over as opposed to Taker just disappearing the night after Mania like last year. I think there's a chance he could be back for Summerslam or SVS though, but if we don't see him again for awhile, I won't be surprised.

PUNK'S REIGN:

Survivor Series 2011: ***1/2
TLC: ***1/2
Rumble 2012: ***1/4
EC: ***
WM: ****
HENRY I: ****
HENRY II: ***1/2
ER: ***1/2
OTL: ****1/2
NWO: ****
MITB: ***1/4
RAW 1000: ***
SummerSlam: **1/2
NOC: ****
HIAC: ***
Survivor Series 2012: ***
TLC Ryback: ***1/2
Rumble: ***

Fuck, I'll also do Cena's long reign for comparisons' sake:

Unforgiven 06: ****
Royal Rumble 2007: ****1/2
WM23: ****
BL 07: ****1/4
JD 07: DUD
ONS 07: *3/4
Vengeance 07: ***
GAB 07: ***3/4
SS 07: ***3/4
Unf 07: *1/2

I know he had a couple of matches with Edge between Unforgiven 06 and RR 07 that were title matches, but I need to re-watch those (and find them somewhere). I also think he had a triple threat with Umaga and Khali at some point in 07, I think right after One Night Stand... but then again not 100% if it was for the title. Meh...


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Rewatched the Orton/Sheamus match from the post Mania RAW and despite the disrespect from the crowd that was a really good TV match both guys worked hard and they got a lot of time.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just found the 2005 EC match. Finally getting around to see it for the first time. 

Punk ratings:

Survivor Series 2011: ***3/4
TLC 2011: ***1/4
Royal Rumble 2012: ***3/4
EC: Needs a rewatch
WM: ****
HENRY I: ****
HENRY II: ***1/2
ER: ****1/4
OTL: ****3/4
NWO: Needs a rewatch
MITB: ****1/4
RAW 1000: **3/4
SummerSlam: ***1/4
NOC: ****
HIAC: **3/4
Survivor Series: ***
TLC on Raw vs Ryback: ***1/2
Royal Rumble 2013: *3/4


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> I have a feeling the aftermatch was a way to write Taker off for awhile and put The Shield over as opposed to Taker just disappearing the night after Mania like last year. I think there's a chance he could be back for Summerslam or SVS though, but if we don't see him again for awhile, I won't be surprised.


Yeah, I think that's what's going to happen. Would be cool to see Taker work Extreme Rules, but I think it will be two members of The Shield vs Team Hell No for the Tag Titles at Extreme Rules, with The Shield winning them. 

Oh and Punk's reign:

Survivor Series 2011: ****1/4*
TLC: ****3/4*
Rumble 2012: ****1/2*
EC: *****
WM: ****3/4*
ER: ******
OTL: *****1/2*
NWO: *****
MITB: *****
SummerSlam: ***1/2*
NOC: ******
HIAC: *****
Survivor Series 2012: ****1/4*
TLC Ryback: ****3/4*
Rumble: ****

I've missed out the RAW 1000th match because I can't remember it too well, same with the first Henry match. The NO DQ Henry match I remember decently but I think I'll have to watch it again to give a rating on it because I can't for the life of me remember what I gave it, but I know I very much enjoyed it and that's what matters.

Great reign indeed.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Eh why not? Cena's long reign for comparisons' sake:

Unforgiven 06: *Needs a rewatch*
Royal Rumble 2007: *****1/2*
WM23: *****1/4*
BL 07: *****1/2*
JD 07: ****
ONS 07: **1/2*
Vengeance 07: ***** Such a FUN match
GAB 07: *****
SS 07: *Needs a rewatch*
Unf 07: *DUD* for storyline purposes that never happened.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Rating all of Punk's WWE Championship matches.

* Punk vs. Del Rio at Survivor Series '11. ★★★1/4
* Punk vs. Del Rio vs. Miz at TLC '11. ★★★1/2
* Punk vs. Ziggler at Royal Rumble '12. ★★★1/2
* WWE Championship Elimination Chamber '12. ★★★
* Punk vs. Jericho at WrestleMania 28. ★★★★
* Punk vs. Henry on Raw 4/9/12. ★★★★
* Punk vs. Henry on Raw 4/16/12. ★★★1/2
* Punk vs. Jericho at Extreme Rules '12. ★★★★1/2
* Punk vs. Bryan at Over the Limit '12. ★★★★★
* Punk vs. Bryan vs. Kane at No Way Out '12. ★★★★
* Punk vs. Bryan at Money in the Bank '12. ★★★★
* Punk vs. Cena on Raw 1000. ★★★
* Punk vs. Cena vs. Show at SummerSlam '12. ★★1/2
* Punk vs. Cena at Night of Champions '12. ★★★★1/2
* Punk vs. Ryback at Hell in a Cell '12. ★★
* Punk vs. Ryback vs. Cena at Survivor Series '12. ★★★1/2
* Punk vs. Ryback on Raw 1/7/13. ★★★3/4
* Punk vs. Rock at Royal Rumble '13. ★★

Great reign indeed.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Decided to Taker and HHH's best PPV runs (since Punk and Cena's reigns might be there respective ones, it fits into that discussion). Taker from 2007-2009 WM25 and HHH from 2000-2001 when he got injured. Here we go:


Taker's 07-WM25:


RR 07 (Rumble match): **** (only including it because his ending with Shawn was a big part of the rating and the greatest Rumble ending sequence in history)
NWO 07 (w/ Batista vs. HBK and Cena): ****
WM23 (vs. Batista): ****1/2
BL 07 (vs. Batista): ****
Unf 07 (vs. Henry): *
CS 07 (vs. Batista): ****1/4
SVS 07 (vs. Batista): ****
Arm 07 (vs. Edge vs. Batista): ***1/2
RR 08 (Rumble match): ***3/4 (was in the match for most of it so he played a big part)
NWO 08 (EC WHC #1 contendership match): ***1/2
WM24 (vs. Edge): ****1/4
BL08 (vs. Edge): ***3/4
JD08 (vs. Edge): ***1/4
TLC 08 (vs. Edge): ***
SS 08 (vs. Edge): ****1/2
NM 08 (vs. Big Show): ***3/4
CS 08 (vs. Big Show): ****
SVS 08 (vs. Big Show): *
NWO/EC 09 (Chamber match): ***3/4
WM25 (vs. HBK): *****

Taker has a couple of pieces of shit on that list. Namely Survivor Series 08 against Big Show and Unforgiven against Mark Henry. The rest are all good at *** and over, with half of those being ****. Taker at the time had not only one of the best PPV runs, but was arguably the best in the world and had the best run in the company, period (it's arguable though, no doubt). Also he has the GOAT match with HBK at WM25. One of the big arguments against that statement is this following guy's best run-

HHH's 2000-2001:

RR 00: ****3/4
NWO 00: ****
WM16: ***1/4
BL 00: ****1/4
JD 00: ****1/4
KOTR 00: **
FL 00: ****1/4
SS 00: **
Unf 00: **1/2
NM 00: ***1/2
SVS 00: **3/4
Armageddon 00: ***3/4
RR 01: ***1/2
NWO 01: ****
WM17: ***3/4
BL 01: ***1/2
JD 01: **3/4

First 7 months of the run is incredible. I'd like to think since I've re-done my list it's hard to get a **** match on it, let alone a ****1/4 or higher but those first 7 months/7 PPV's, 6 of them are ****+, 5 are ****1/4+, and the only one that wasn't happened to be a match that had less to do with him. Had HHH kept that speed up throughout his whole run on PPV's until he was injured, he would've had the best. Starting with Summerslam 2000 though the rest of the run brings it down, re-watching some of the matches that used to be higher and went down, like the triple threat Summerslam match, the WM17 match, and others. But even then the first 7 months does make up for it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *United States Championship
> *Antonio Cesaro (c) vs. Adrian Neville (_NXT 4/25/13_)
> 
> This is somewhat of a dream match for me because to my knowledge it never happened on the indy scene (which is amazing). Or at least if it did it's from a company I don't follow and probably before PAC was a big name. Anyway, really fun match. Cesaro does everything he can to just ground Neville and not let the crowd get involved in the early minutes before Neville ultimately gets the comeback sequence, which is of course beautiful to watch. Nice nearfalls near the end & an awesome finish. Claudio vs. ANY high flyer or smaller guy is gonna be fun at the very least. **** 1/2*
> ...


Claudio vs PAC happened in Chikara & PWG in 2007 :


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Pretty fun Del Rio vs. Swagger No DQ match on Smackdown.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Might as well give it a shot with all these ratings for specific wrestlers:

HHH (2000-2001)

RR 00: *******
NWO 00: *****1/2*
WM16: ****1/2*
RAW vs. Jericho ******
BL 00: *****1/2*
JD 00: *****1/4*
KOTR 00: ***1/2*
FL 00: *****1/2*
SS 00: ***3/4*
Unf 00: ****1/4*
NM 00: *****1/4*
SVS 00: ***3/4*
Armageddon 00: ******
RR 01: ****1/2*
NWO 01: ****3/4*
WM17: ******
BL 01: ****3/4*
JD 01: ***3/4*

Taker's 07-WM25:

RR 07: *****1/2 (#3 Royal Rumble ever)*
NWO 07 (w/ Batista vs. HBK and Cena): ******
WM23 (vs. Batista): *****1/2*
BL 07 (vs. Batista): ******
Unf 07 (vs. Henry): *DUD*
CS 07 (vs. Batista): *****1/4*
SVS 07 (vs. Batista): *****1/4*
Arm 07 (vs. Edge vs. Batista): ****1/2*
RR 08 (Rumble match): ****1/2*
NWO 08 (EC WHC #1 contendership match): ****3/4*
WM24 (vs. Edge): *****1/2*
BL08 (vs. Edge): ****1/2*
JD08 (vs. Edge): ****1/4*
TLC 08 (vs. Edge): *****
SS 08 (vs. Edge): *****1/2*
NM 08 (vs. Big Show): ****3/4*
CS 08 (vs. Big Show): *****1/4*
SVS 08 (vs. Big Show): ***
NWO/EC 09 (Chamber match): ****3/4*
WM25 (vs. HBK): *******

CM Punk's title reign:

Survivor Series 2011: ******
RAW vs. Ziggler: ******
RAW vs. Del Rio: ****1/4*
TLC: *****1/4*
RAW vs. Ziggler: ****1/4*
Rumble 2012: ****3/4*
RAW vs. Bryan: ******
EC: ****3/4*
SD vs. Bryan: ******
WM: *****1/4*
RAW vs. Henry: *****1/4*
RAW vs. Henry III: ******
ER: *****1/2*
OTL: *****3/4*
RAW vs. Bryan: ****3/4*
SD vs. Kane: ****3/4*
NWO: ******
RAW vs. Bryan/Kane: ****1/4*
MITB: *****1/4*
RAW vs. Big Show: *****
RAW 1000: *****
SummerSlam: *****
NOC: *****1/4*
Main Event vs. Sheamus: ****3/4*
HIAC: *****
RAW vs. Cena: ****3/4*
Survivor Series: ****1/2*
TLC Ryback: ****3/4*
Rumble: *LOLWTF*

Cena's 2006-2007 reign:

Unforgiven 06: ****3/4*
RAW vs. Edge (Cage): ****1/2*
Cyber Sunday 06: ***3/4*
SvS 06: ***1/2*
Armageddon 06: ****
NYR 07: ****1/2*
Royal Rumble 2007: *****1/2*
NWO 07: ******
WM23: ******
RAW vs. HBK *****1/2*
BL 07: *****1/4*
JD 07: ***3/4*
ONS 07: ***
Vengeance 07: ***3/4*
GAB 07: ****3/4*
SS 07: ****3/4*
Unf 07: *DUD*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about Del Rio vs Swagger No DQ on Smackdown. holy crap this Smackdown is actually sounding like it is worth seeing for the second week in a row.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

*KEN SHAMROCK vs. VADER* (May 1997 IYH: A Cold Day In Hell)

Just watched this match again for shits and giggles, and fuck me this match is STIFF. Shamrock pulverises Vader with kicks and forearms, and Vader retreats to the outside on more than one occasion. Afterwards, Vader mounts a comeback with a stiff clothesline and a brutal spot where he suplexes Shamrock onto the floor. Shamrock attempts to make Vader tap out to numerous armbars to no avail. It all stays equal until my favourite part when Vader OBLITERATES Shamrock with a super stiff right forearm smash that knocks him for a loop, but still Shamrock shrugs it of and makes Vader tap out to the ankle lock. A super intense match that was unheard of back in 1997. ***1/2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Shield getting the ultimate rub on Smackdown. The very big mark in me (though still standing by what I said about Taker starting a retirement tour) kind of thinks that Taker could come back and feud with Reigns or Ambrose and give them a victory or something. Would certainly be great for these guys. 

I know everyone's expecting Cena/Taker, but who knows. WWE may choose to have Taker work with a younger guy to MAYBE go over at Mania. I'd certainly prefer that to seeing Cena/Taker. 

Who knows, they might plan for Rock/Cena III to finalize the fued, especially since Rock isn't working Extreme Rules. That's probably not happening, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dopesick said:


> *KEN SHAMROCK vs. VADER* (May 1997 IYH: A Cold Day In Hell)
> 
> Just watched this match again for shits and giggles, and fuck me this match is STIFF. Shamrock pulverises Vader with kicks and forearms, and Vader retreats to the outside on more than one occasion. Afterwards, *Vader mounts a comeback with a stiff clothesline and a brutal spot where he suplexes Shamrock onto the floor*. Shamrock attempts to make Vader tap out to numerous armbars to no avail. It all stays equal until my favourite part when Vader OBLITERATES Shamrock with a super stiff right forearm smash that knocks him for a loop, but still Shamrock shrugs it of and makes Vader tap out to the ankle lock. A super intense match that was unheard of back in 1997. ***1/2


Watched that back in January. One of my favorites from '97. Manly, STIFF, the whole shebang. Both spots mentioned in bold are the two I was left in a giddy state after witnessing. ****** in my books.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not happy with how low the Cena/Miz/Morrison Cage match is on KOK's list. ***? C'mon man!



HayleySabin said:


> Claudio vs PAC happened in Chikara & PWG in 2007 :


See, two companies I did not follow at the time.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

RE: Vader vs. Shamrock

I remember watching it at the time as a fourteen year old and being pretty confused. It was very unlike a typical WWF match at the time, and it was strange seeing Vader being made to look like a pussy. Was a strange PPV, what with Mankind being CHEERED against Rocky Miavia as well, and Austin - who was arguably the biggest face in the WWF at the time - facing the all time legend Undertaker in the main event, leaving fans in a major dilemma who to cheer for.

Still think Vader and Shamrock should've had a rematch soon after (although they did in Japan a few months after this I believe).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> See, two companies I did not follow at the time.







RIP the Hellertown War Memorial & their tiny ring. _(lolz)_


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I LOVED that old Chikara venue. Chris Hero vs. Shane Storm is one of my all time favorite bouts from the company (not that I've seen that much of it though ). _The Crushing Weight of Mainstrean Ignorance_ I believe.

Anyways, to stay on topic. Look at this old ass motherfucker Dopesick bein 14 years old in 1997. :lol Just joshin with ya holmes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Jerchio wm 28
Great match, it falls victim to being placed horribly on the card before right after a classic and before the msot hyped match in a long time. This is arguably the best wwe champion match at mania to day. The wresting is great and both match each well. *****1/4*

Punk/Henry 4/2/12 seriously a great tv match and a definite candidate for TVMOTY. Henry played monster so well 
******


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dopesick said:


> RE: Vader vs. Shamrock
> 
> I remember watching it at the time as a fourteen year old and being pretty confused. It was very unlike a typical WWF match at the time, and it was strange seeing Vader being made to look like a pussy. Was a strange PPV, what with Mankind being CHEERED against Rocky Miavia as well, and Austin - who was arguably the biggest face in the WWF at the time - facing the all time legend Undertaker in the main event, leaving fans in a major dilemma who to cheer for.
> 
> Still think Vader and Shamrock should've had a rematch soon after (although they did in Japan a few months after this I believe).


I wouldn't say Vader looked like a "pussy" per say, but he was there to make Shamrock look as legit as possible in the pro game. No doubt. Match was a sight to behold. The complete opposite than what the "norm" was at the time. Even with Austin vs Bret Submission Match happening not long before it. Things were changing at a rapid rate in the WWF. Vader vs Shamrock was one of the first Attitude Era type matches seen in the company. Only, it was a really, really good one as opposed to the copious offensive minded brawls that would come later.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I LOVED that old Chikara venue. Chris Hero vs. Shane Storm is one of my all time favorite bouts from the company (not that I've seen that much of it though ). _The Crushing Weight of Mainstrean Ignorance_ I believe.
> 
> Anyways, to stay on topic. Look at this old ass motherfucker Dopesick bein 14 years old in 1997. :lol Just joshin with ya holmes.


I have been wanting to watch that match recently, tbhayley. God damn it is sooooooo good. Storm at his all time slimmest weight ever and it showed. Had his best match of his career that night. Storm also had a booming match vs Kingston in the same venue. That was more of a survival match than anything. Kingston broke his nose and the blood was dripping through the mask. :mark:

I was only 6 years old when A Cold Day In Hell aired. :hb


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I have been wanting to watch that match recently, tbhayley. God damn it is sooooooo good. Storm at his all time slimmest weight ever and it showed. Had his best match of his career that night. Storm also had a booming match vs Kingston in the same venue. That was more of a survival match than anything. Kingston broke his nose and the blood was dripping through the mask. :mark:
> 
> I was only 6 years old when A Cold Day In Hell aired. :hb


Good lord that Kingston match sounds like a beauty.

I was 5. :cheer


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Good lord that Kingston match sounds like a beauty.
> 
> I was 5. :cheer







Not the best video to show all of the match, but enough to show how Storm took some sick moments during it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is it blashemy to have the raw ec 12 close to ****3/4 ? I was may first time watching it to and am not trolling but I dont get the hate for that match at all, I see some ** thrown at it which is crazy.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Punk/Jerchio wm 28
> Great match, it falls victim to being placed horribly on the card before right after a classic and before the msot hyped match in a long time. This is *arguably the best wwe champion match at mania to day*. The wresting is great and both match each well. *****1/4*
> 
> Punk/Henry 4/2/12 seriously a great tv match and a definite candidate for TVMOTY. Henry played monster so well
> ******


Kurt Angle Vs Lesnar, Rock Vs Austin (Both), Hogan Vs Andre, Eddie Guerrero Vs Angle, Austin Vs HBK, 
HBK Vs Bret Hart, Cena Vs HBK, Ultimate Warrior Vs Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage Vs Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair Vs Randy Savage. Are all better, IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Andre


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Hogan vs Andre


Match quality, it sucked. But that match, launched WWF, mainstream.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you have a case for both savage matches and the cena vs hbk (which I believe is very overrated and their raw rematch blows it out of the water). The others are not better and this is coming from a hbk mark


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> you have a case for both savage matches and the cena vs hbk (which I believe is very overrated and their raw rematch blows it out of the water). The others are not better and this is coming from a hbk mark


I'm pretty sure Austin Vs Rock (WM 17), is better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would put Austin/Rock II and Flair/Savage above Punk/Jericho, but I think I'll stop there. Funny how there are so many overrated title matches that took place at Wrestlemania.

I really believe the reason why RAW EC 2012 is rated so low by others is because of the unusual way Jericho got taken out of the match. Everything else in that match however was really well done. Punk, Jericho, Ziggler, and Kingston all had standout performances.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll take Punk vs Jericho over Austin vs Rock WM 17 everyday of the week. Twice on Sunday.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I would put Austin/Rock II and Flair/Savage above Punk/Jericho, but I think I'll stop there. Funny how there are so many overrated title matches that took place at Wrestlemania.
> 
> I really believe the reason why RAW EC 2012 is rated so low by others is because of the unusual way Jericho got taken out of the match. Everything else in that match however was really well done. Punk, Jericho, Ziggler, and Kingston all had standout performances.


I don't get the love for the Jericho/punk match, too slow paced.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@funnyfaces1 ok I can understand that. Jericho exit was disappointing but other then that it a a great match with the top workers in da E killing it.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Punk/Jerchio wm 28
> Great match, it falls victim to being placed horribly on the card before right after a classic and before the msot hyped match in a long time. This is arguably the best wwe champion match at mania to day. The wresting is great and both match each well. *****1/4*
> 
> *Punk/Henry 4/2/12 seriously a great tv match and a definite candidate for TVMOTY. Henry played monster so wel*l
> ******


Agreed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The selling of the knee portrayed by Punk in the TLC match, as well as the swagger he musters up when climbing the ladder in the finish while at the same time keeping the selling valid is 18 different kinds of awesome. That match really is a great one and perhaps one of the more underrated Punk matches of the last few years, checking out some Punk TV matches for the fuck of it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Really fun Punk TV match that is worth a watch. These two have underrated chemistry.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jericho/Punk from Mania is actually one of the few Punk matches from the past year that I really enjoy. Doesn't hold a candle to Austin vs Rock (WM17) for best WWE Title match at WM history, though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I would say Lesnar/Angle is better than Punk/Jericho as well.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, I'm not so sold on the Punk/Jericho match either.. fun of course though


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

List of WWE Championship matches at Wrestlemania better than Punk/Jericho:

- John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (XXIII)
- Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (VIII)

That is all.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I havent seen Jericho vs Punk

dunno why


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk's reign? Fuck watching some of these matches back, even though he's so good as a heel, he was over as fuck as a face. More so than anybody at that time, on a consistent basis.

vs. Del Rio - Survivor Series: ***3/4
vs. Miz vs. Del Rio - TLC: ****
vs. Ziggler - Royal Rumble: ***1/4
Elimination Chamber: ***
vs. Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania: ****1/4
vs. Mark Henry - RAW: ****
vs. Mark Henry - RAW II: ***1/2
vs. Chris Jericho - Extreme Rules: ****1/4
vs. Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit: ****3/4
vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - No Way Out: ***3/4
vs. Daniel Bryan - Money in the Bank: ***1/2
vs. John Cena - RAW 1000: **1/2
vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - SummerSlam: **1/2
vs. John Cena - Night of Champions: ****1/2
vs. Ryback - Hell in a Cell: **3/4
vs. Ryback vs. John Cena - Survivor Series: **3/4
vs. Ryback - RAW: ***3/4
vs. The Rock - Royal Rumble: ***1/4

Not to mention some fantastic TV matches with Bryan and Ziggler. One of the GOAT reigns.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

yes but it had bad ratings, therefore objectively the reign was bad and your opinion was wrong

now rock, that was a great reign

all in the 3.0s baby


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Oh man, Rock's reign. Now why aren't we talking about that? True GOAT material.

vs. CM Punk - Elimination Chamber: **1/4
vs. John Cena - Wrestlemania: *1/4

:mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ROCK'S REIGN :mark: :mark: :mark:

vs. CM Punk - Elimination Chamber: ** 3/4*
vs. John Cena - Wrestlemania: *3/4 **

UNDISPUTED GOAT. THANK YOU ROCK.

LEAVE THE MEMORIES ALONE <3.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Really fun Punk TV match that is worth a watch. These two have underrated chemistry.


That's the one where Punk earned the match via the Four Way match prior in the show iirc. Good stuff. Too bad their match at Backlash was honestly their weakest affair that actually got time to develop. Other TV matches between them are so much better. This match included.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> List of WWE Championship matches at Wrestlemania better than Punk/Jericho:
> 
> - John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (XXIII)
> - Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (VIII)
> ...


Iron Man @ XII (let the shit fling)
Lesnar/Angle XIX
Austin/Rock XVII
Hell, I even prefer Austin/HBK XIV for atmosphere, significance alone

I thought Punk/Jericho was amazing when watching live, but feel it didn't hold up so well on the rewatch


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched the one from earlier this year a few minutes ago (before moving onto a Scott Steiner promo marathon of course, managed to watched Steiner-Joe from Slammiversary as well which I really enjoy) and I was very MEH on it. Always felt the gold standard between Punk and Kane was a three star encounter last year that took place on Smackdown which was great fucking stuff.

& Steiner Screwdriver = Greatest move of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KidCharlamagne said:


> *Iron Man @ XII (let the shit fling)*
> Lesnar/Angle XIX
> Austin/Rock XVII
> Hell, I even prefer Austin/HBK XIV for atmosphere, significance alone
> ...


Shit flown.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cody beat me to it .

SIZE DOES MATTER BITCH :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of the many Steiner-isms. You seen his classic promo from Victory Road '06? Might be my favorite promo from him.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm making this post just so that I can post this smiley. :flair3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The greatest Steiner promo is the one he made when he was in ECW where he goes on a rant about feminine wrestlers. Tazz was dying of laughter in the background. Somebody please find this video, it's so worth it!

*EDIT*

GUYS! I implore you to please watch this video starting from the 4:45 mark. Scott Steiner in his short part is hilarious!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6eqa8_steiner-brothers-taz-vs-2-cold-scor_sport#.UXtvcLU3uSo


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just started watching this little piece. Had no idea it existed.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Man, I just miss when the midcard titles meant something. What are some favorite US/IC title matches, peeps?


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;17524538 said:


> Man, I just miss when the midcard titles meant something. What are some favorite US/IC title matches, peeps?


IC title:

Randy Savage vs. Steamboat (obviously)
Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley Backlash 2004
The Rock vs. Triple H Ladder Match Summerslam 1998
Shawn vs. Razor WM X
Chris Jericho vs. Christian Ladder Match at Unforgiven 2004
Chris Jericho vs. Benoit Ladder Match Royal Rumble 2001
Chris Jericho vs. Benoit Backlash 2000
Rob Van Dam vs. Shelton Benjamin Backlash 2006
Edge vs. Christian No Mercy 2001, ladder match
Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio The Bash 2009
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog Summerslam 1992
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect 1991
Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper WM 8
Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit WM 2000
Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Benoit Summerslam 2002
Randy Orton vs. Edge Vengeance 2004

I also like the Jericho vs. Regal match at WM 17


I can't help you out much with the US title. I'm not familiar with the history of the title in WCW and I can't remember anything aside from Benoit vs. Booker T for its time in the WWE.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what should i watch?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Something with KANA. :hayley3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

who?


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

By the way, that Neville vs. Cesaro match is incredible for the time it's given. Cesaro was reminding me of his days in the indies, and was a lot more charismatic in this match than he is on Raw. What a shame that all he does is yodel and get squashed every week. Raw would be a lot more tolerable if they could let guys go out and have matches like these. 

There's a match on a PWG set that I have between Claudio and PAC. It's fantastic what those two can do in the ring against each other. I don't remember when it took place but I'll guess 2007 after seeing someone mention that they faced each other numerous times that year. It was also funny to see Claudio do that "hey!" thing after hitting a move on his opponent. The crowd seemed to be chanting it a lot to mock him, and it's just sad that they don't let him do that stuff on Raw and Smackdown. To me, he should definitely be a world champion in the near future.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> who?







KANA


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm gonna watch a bunch of Yokozuna on youtube and make one of them posts in a sec.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More Yokozuna reviews on par with the Yoko/Virgil review = :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yokozuna v. The 1-2-3 Kid (Raw, the youtube guy "thinks" it's 1994)
There's gotta be a Yoko v. Waltman match that delivers everything it should deliver, but this isn't it. I, however, will not complain about this. The beginning has Yoko trying to grab Kid twice, and Kid dodging him, because, well, if he gets grabbed he practically dies. Yoko kind of take it easy on the first one, then on the second one he goes in harder and when Kid moves Yoko goes to Fuji and creates the grabbing the motion with his hands, like, 'I just can't grab the little fucker'. Kid actually might have gotten more offense on Yoko than vice versa in the match, and yeah, Yoko kind of rules at selling that shit and not making himself look weak. It's really easy to make the babyface look like a superman who's just breezing through it all, but every hit Kid got in here looked well earned. Yoko even tumbles on the outside on a spin-kick and it didn't look ridiculous. Do I have to mention how good he is at the superweight 'weeble-wobble' selling? Because everyone should know by now. I love how the crowd eat that shit up, too. 'He's gonna do it.....HE'S GONNA DO IT!!!........HE'S GONNA KNOCK YOKOZUNA OVER!!!!!.....................Oh, wait....."*splat* 1, 2, 3.

Yokozuna v. The Undertaker (Milan, Italy 4/25/93)
Honestly, this was not good. This was sort of the reverse-Yoko match where instead of the opponent hitting all of the offense and Yoko shrugging it off in a cool way, it was Yoko hitting all of the offense and having it shrugged off, in a not-so-cool way. There's Undertaker Dead Man selling and then there's pretty no-selling, and this was pretty much no-selling. The match didn't go long enough to get past that no-selling point which could have been the opening in any given match. Taker would do the sit-up things on pretty much everything, and the best part of the match was right at the end. Yoko slams Taker, and then bends over and hits Taker in the face a couple times with a 'is he finally done? He's gonna do it again isn't he?' look on his face. When Taker deosn't get up, Yoko turns away and raises his arms up in the air 'Nup, he's done. I WIN.' He turns around, Taker sits up and Yoko slams him with a.....thingy. Like a basket or something. Yeah this wasn't much fun and tbph I pin most of that on Taker's gimmick.

Yokozuna v. Kamala (Raw 5/17/93)
My first thought when seeing the video for this was 'Holy fuck this could be awesome' and even if it wasn't legitimately awesome I have no disappointment from the 2.5 minutes of a match I got here. They run at each other like two fat fatty fatasses and their fatass bodies collide and Kamala wins the fatass jousts and Yoko's all 'ah shit my PHATASS is gonna fall over'. Yoko gets to work over Kamala for a minute after that and Kamala can be a crummy seller but it wasn't something that took me out of it t all. The crowd chant 'USA' and I'm not entirely sure if they were rooting for Kamala because he's a Ugandan savage who pretty much never spoke English in his career. There's a shitty ass chop by Yoko at the end but then hits the Banzai Drop on fucking Kamala. Give these guys six minutes.

Yokozuna v. Brian West (SuperStars 2/27/93)
I'm starting to think Yoko either worked stiffer with the jobbers, or worked stiffer the earlier his career was, because holy shit on a stick everything here looked brutal. "Everything" isn't saying much because there were a total of about five moves in this, but I dropped by jaw to the ground on the opening clothesline and it's currently stuck open from the rest of the moves. His running butt-splash of doom was nasty as shit, as he actually JUMPED directly into _jobber's name who I am not looking at right now_'s chest and crushed the shit out of him. Perfect two minute squash.

Yokozuna v. The Earthquake (WHO KNOWS I DON'T, probably 1993)
MORE FATTIES~ So yeah I tend to only watch short matches when I do this sort of thing, and despite that I am rarely disappointed by the ones I actually look forward to. I was really looking forward to this and despite how short it was, yeah, can you guess? I wasn't disappointed. They stare each other down for a bit and then Quake hits some fucking JUMPING KICKS to start the match. Not even real big jumps, just light shitty jumps and he's flailing hi leg into Yoko in the process of jumping. Also he was aiming for Yoko. I am only noticing today how amazing some of Yokozuna's faial expressions are. I've already gotten "I just can't grab the little fucker", "is he finally done? He's gonna do it again isn't he?", "Nup, he's done. I WIN", and "ah shit my PHATASS is gonna fall over" today. In tis match we got Quake outdoing Yoko in power and he wobbles with this 'woahhh, wait a second' face. Then Quake gets the upperhand on him again and he's all 'the fuck?'. Then he plants and elbow in Quake's face and wins after about 30 seconds. BUT it's the facial that really make you think Yoko could lose. And the weeble-wobble selling. I do adore weeble-wobble selling. FATTIES.

Yokozuna v. Diesel (1995)
I swear Nash almost tore his quad on the jumping lariat. HA! Nash goes for a jackknife and obviously doesn't hit it (but how fucking tremendous would that be?!!?!?!?!?!?!???), and then Yoko misses the Banzai Drop and gets pinned. This went for about forty seconds. Uhhh, why? Stupid shitface booking shit.

Yokozuna/Owen Hart v. Chuck Williams/David Thornberg (Wrestling Challenge 7/2/95)
Chuck Williams is one of those jobbers that has the annoying habit of 'kicking out' after every move. Not kicking out after a pin, but every time he's planted down, he'll kick his legs, as if he's in so much pain that his body just vibrates or some shit. I hate that kind of crap. Like when wrestlers fall down from something and randomly lift their head once. Why? Fuck you. This was really fun. Owen hits everything so crisply and makes it look so effortless. How many people can do a drop-toe-hold like that? Pretty much zero. David Thornberry (or W/eTF) getting in on Yoko was amazing. He comes in ready to fight but sees Yoko and goes 'what do I do?' all hesitant and just starts hitting random places on Yoko's body. Yoko sells none of that and simply slaps the dude in the head and makes him fall down. I fucking love the Owen Hart/Yokozuna team. Million out of ten.

Yokozuna v. Buck Zumhofe (Wrestling Challenge 11/29/92)
Buck Zumhofe was a supposedly awful AWA wrestler. He did a sucky sell of Yoko's first move, but Yoko's offense looked good enough after that. All four moves.

----------------------

Next wrestler I'm thinking of doing:



Spoiler: WHO?



It's.....IT'S........


Spoiler: WHO!?!?!!



HHH!


Spoiler: YAY!



Nah, just kidding. It's......


Spoiler: Wait, what?



HHH!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I like the spoiler game 

Yoko was always a favorite of mine as a kid, more so as a heel though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This is why I've quit reviewing matches. I can't compete when you pop up. It's like a SI review on a movie or Andy telling us about his escapades. Best read ever.

FATTIES.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SHUCKS :$


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Yeah, Hayley, KOK, whoever.

Thoughts on Punk/Trips from NOC 11 please?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wasn't that great.

hey yeah1993 review hhh/steiner :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Yeah, Hayley, KOK, whoever.
> 
> Thoughts on Punk/Trips from NOC 11 please?


Overbooked as fuck but still really fun. 1st half (up until the announce table spot) was reaching MOTYC levels.

Who here remembers the Punk/Rey/ADR match? Such fun stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saw some talk on the best WM WWE title matches earlier. I'd definitely have Punk/Jericho #1. ****1/2 for it. There honestly aren't that many that come close to it. We've had some really fucking garbage title matches at WM. Austin/Rock WM 17 at ****1/2 is the closest, then maybe 1 or 2 at **** and that's about it.

Hey Yeah, about Yoko/Diesel, I remember Nash saying (might have been in his Timeline of WWF 1995 shoot thingy) that he purposely had super short matches with Yoko (his example was a cage match too LOL) to piss off Bill Watts who shit on him when he was getting into the business or something, and now he was champ for the big company he wanted to show Bill that he could practically do whatever he wanted and Watts couldn't do shit to him any more.

Punk/Trips sucked. Like, really fucking sucked. BIG TIME. Their best match is a *** match on SD in 2010.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> SHUCKS :$


Yeah1993



Ever Wolf said:


> Yeah, Hayley, KOK, whoever.
> 
> Thoughts on Punk/Trips from NOC 11 please?


Divisive match. You'll either enjoy the chaotic, overbooked nature or you won't. I've only seen it twice & neither were recent so my opinion on it for it remains at: solid.



ATF said:


> Overbooked as fuck but still really fun. 1st half (up until the announce table spot) was reaching MOTYC levels.
> 
> Who here remembers the Punk/Rey/ADR match? Such fun stuff.


Falls count anywhere match, you know it. Quality match. Set the tone for Punker going into mega mode in 2011.



Big Z said:


> Saw some talk on the best WM WWE title matches earlier. I'd definitely have Punk/Jericho #1. ****1/2 for it. There honestly aren't that many that come close to it. We've had some really fucking garbage title matches at WM. Austin/Rock WM 17 at ****1/2 is the closest, then maybe 1 or 2 at **** and that's about it.


:mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it just me who LOVES the HHH/Steiner NWO '03 promo package w/Bring Me To Life playing on the background? 

(Minute 0:00 to 3:50)





Made the whole feud WWAYYYYYYYYYY better than it actually was. Same for their RR match w/Trust Company's song. WWE production staff for Hall Of Fame, bro.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like it too. It's not un-common for those hype videos to make things look better than they actually are. I saw one tonight with a program from an women's indie promotion make one of their weak matches look like a hell of a war. Production teams all over can make anything look like a million bucks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just like how a movie/video game trailer can sometimes makes them look better than they actually are.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

WWE's video production team is awesome. If only they worked on other aspects of production too, like their sets (except Wrestlemania). All the shows look exactly the same now. Even the PPVs. Same screen, same everything. Just different lighting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Think they did that to make it as easy as possible for the crew to build sets each week. Only a guess.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ever Wolf said:


> Yeah, Hayley, KOK, whoever.
> 
> Thoughts on Punk/Trips from NOC 11 please?


I kinda liked it, but I started to wish it would end after a while. 



King Kenny said:


> wasn't that great.
> 
> hey yeah1993 review hhh/steiner :lol


I did! Like, in June. 



Spoiler: Rumble



So I actually watch H/Steiner, and I'm really, really glad I did. First parts were boring as shit, but once they....um, 'picked it up' (which isn't the right term since it was slow and plodding), it just got legitimately funny. I'm literally telling the honest-to-God 100% truth when I say I laughed at some of the moments in this match. First time was the tombstone reversal which ended in this fucked up stunner/neckbreaker/diamond cutter move which Steiner sold by pretty much falling backwards. Trip nearly fell on top of him and I nearly fell off of my bed in laughter. Just when I'm about to get over that Steiner pretty much trips over while giving Trip the worst butterfly powerbomb thingy of all time. Match was a total mess; I thought they might go a good route when Ric brings Trip to leave the match, but then Steiner comes after them and Ric distracts the ref for Trip to hit Steiner with the belt. Except he didn't and Steiner hits him instead. They should have LET Trip hit Steiner and they should have done it in the first few minutes of a 12 minute match (it went like 20...). Steiner's selling was almost non-existant when Flair got cheapshots in. He was wrestling like a morbidly obese man that belongs on one of those motorised scooters. The both of them looked like shitty trainee wrestlers trying to emulate what they were seeing on TV, and it was just an awful match. But it was fucking hilarious. ****3/4. I'm watching the No Way Out re-match tomorrow.





Spoiler: NWO



HHH v Scott Steiner (No Way Out)- Not as stupidly awesome as the historically shitty Rumble match, but pretty terrible/fantastic in it's own right. Trip has a bandaged leg going in and Steiner wastes little time going for it. Which was stupid. When he fired the first shot HHH backed away and looked like 'oh shit I better watch out,' only for Scotty for pound it for the next two minutes. They could have played a good theme, but I guess Steiner didn't want to waste time and become the wheezing huffing sack he was in the first match. The punches in this....oh Lord the punches. I'm not a guy who really thinks punches can make or break a match (they'd have to be amazing or miss by two feet), but they can certainly add or subtract. And these were the most light and feathery punches you'll ever see. When Trip first goes for the Pedigree Steiner gets out of it and throws the absolute worst one you'll see in some time. I thought it was actually kind if funny. Not as funny as the awkward-as-all-hell top rope....suplex...angle slam...thing. It wasn't even that, Steiner gets Trip in the wrong direction at first then just puts him on his shoulders and tilts backwards. Reminded me of Wile E. Coyote falling on a cliff really slowly while riding a rocket. They actually sort of play off the Rumble match; I didn't mention this when talking about that one, but Trip threw Hebner out of the ring and Hebner refused to DQ him. I can only imagine what people watching it live would have thought. "NOOO!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.......PLEASE END THIS EARL" They sort of do the same thing here, but the crowd actually boo Hebner, mostly because they're Montrealions (Montrealites.....Montrealicians, Montrealasians, IDK) and are full of hate about the screwjob. Which is ironic since Trip played a bigger part in it than Earl did. Flair calls for Orton and Batista, and no joke, their selling is the best part of either Steiner/HHH match. Orton looked great for those 23 seconds. I thought it was nice that Steiner kicked out when HHH hit him with the belt following that, but there is literally nothing between that and the Pedigree that scores him the win. I don't understand who'd book that or why they did, but sweet ice cream on a cone it can get funny. Just terrible wrestling. Don't expect to find these matches funny like I did.





Big Z said:


> Hey Yeah, about Yoko/Diesel, I remember Nash saying (might have been in his Timeline of WWF 1995 shoot thingy) that he purposely had super short matches with Yoko (his example was a cage match too LOL) to piss off Bill Watts who shit on him when he was getting into the business or something, and now he was champ for the big company he wanted to show Bill that he could practically do whatever he wanted and Watts couldn't do shit to him any more.


Wow, that's.....awful. What a shittyface.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Steiner is the GOAT. HUH.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I LOVE YOKOZUNA



Ever Wolf said:


> Yeah, Hayley, KOK, whoever.
> 
> Thoughts on Punk/Trips from NOC 11 please?


Love the match personally. Big ol chaotic overbooked piece of FUN. **** on the last watch,



SaviorBeeRad™;17524538 said:


> Man, I just miss when the midcard titles meant something. What are some favorite US/IC title matches, peeps?


US Title:

The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan (_Night of Champions 2010_)

:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best part about the NWO Steiner/Trips match is how about three minutes in it already was hilarious. That's talent. I think.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Miz/Bryan is the only match that rivals Eddie/Benoit as the GOAT WWE US Title match ever. And that's considering it has the fucking MIZ on it. Sure, he deserves credit for his shockingly awesome psychology and storytelling in that match too, but Lord have mercy if Daniel Bryan isn't a miracle worker.

Speaking of miracle worker (I think), do you agree with this list:





Personally, Austin/Angle SSlam should've found it's way on the list... and quite high. And I think #3 should be #1.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Terrible list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Angle v. Lesnar - Never loved it.
Angle v. Shane McMahon - Literally the #1 match I never want to see again.
Angle v. Taker - Great match.
Angle v. Benoit - Good for a while. Starts to suck eventually.
Angle v. Michaels - Not a good match at all.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I doubt I'm alone but I prefer the Unforgiven '02 match vs Benoit to the Royal Rumble '03 match. So many people call the RR match the GOAT and it's not even the best between the two but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^same for me. Not like that goes very far though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The best Angle v. Benoit is probably like ***1/4.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Anyone have any views on the Regal/Edge matches from Vengeance 2001, RR 02 and No Way Out 02?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Damn, missed some Yokozuna talk. :hayley2

I saw the Flair Definitive doc a few days back and I cannot come up with anything but utterly spectacular. 

I'm halfway through the WCCW doc and it's been a losing battle through an emotional standpoint. Interested in some David Von Erich matches since he's the one I strongly connected with. "The Yellow Rose of Texas" :clap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Anyone have any views on the Regal/Edge matches from Vengeance 2001, RR 02 and No Way Out 02?


Cal loves the Rumble match. I think that one is solid, but Vengeance is really, really good. Been ages since I last saw the brass knucks on a pole match. Think that was their weakest of the series.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Personally, I find the Angle/Benoit hate quite odd. Sure, their matches are Suplexfests but I'll take that over Ok'ish told stories with AWFUL wrestling mixed to them (Batista/JBL GAB '05 or Jericho/JBL RR in e.g.). I love myself some storytelling yeah, but it also takes proper wrestling for a match to dance, and if a match has bad storytelling but good wrestling, I won't consider it terrible by any means. And then again, there IS story for the match, the story is there: it's about who's the better man. Who's the better technician, who can outwrestle the other. All those mindless and tweaky counters and no-sells were all for such purpose in my mind. The no-sells and spot callings and submission/Suplex overkills were unneccessary, but I personally never really gave a damn about that in these kind of matches. If it does a good job in keeping me into the story told and into the match itself, I won't mind it too much. At least that's what I think.

Also, never thought too highly of Regal/Edge matches. They were all solid but that's about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Personally, I find the Angle/Benoit hate quite odd. Sure, their matches are Suplexfests but I'll take that over Ok'ish told stories with AWFUL wrestling mixed to them (Batista/JBL GAB '05 or Jericho/JBL RR in e.g.). I love myself some storytelling yeah, but it also takes proper wrestling for a match to dance, and if a match has bad storytelling but good wrestling, I won't consider it terrible by any means. And then again, there IS story for the match, the story is there: it's about who's the better man. Who's the better technician, who can outwrestle the other. All those mindless and tweaky counters and no-sells were all for such purpose in my mind. The no-sells and spot callings and submission/Suplex overkills were unneccessary, but I personally never really gave a damn about that in these kind of matches. If it does a good job in keeping me into the story told and into the match itself, I won't mind it too much. At least that's what I think..


That sounds like the justification as to why some think Davey Richards matches are great. I don't buy into it, personally.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk vs Triple H?

Love the chaotic nature of it and how things spiral out of control only for them to spiral even MORE out of control as the match continues on. The booking behind the match was completely atrocious as they easily could have gotten Punk his win back in the Cell but fuck (as if it matters when it comes to the match) I'll be damned if hairy chest Haitch and Punk didn't go out there and put on at least a GOOD match. I haven't seen it in a while and I had it at four stars on my last watch ; so take that inflation and deduct a half a star to a star, basically being in the three star-ISH range.

Then again, I'm predisposed to like it due to it being my legitimate biggest dream match EVER, so they could have went out there and taken a literal shit in the middle of the ring and I would have loved it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Anyone have any views on the Regal/Edge matches from Vengeance 2001, RR 02 and No Way Out 02?


:mark: Love their series. Fucking LOVE them. Vengeance is great, RR is great, NWO is good but the weakest. Edge's first real defining singles feud and it was the beginning of Regal getting back to his NASTY ways. He'd been somewhat toned down for the most part since returning to WWE in 2000, but he started becoming more evil and gritty and shit with that feud.

SpookshowTony, get hold of the independent WCCW doc after you've watched the WWE release. Called Heroes Of World Class. You should be able to pick it up brand new for dirt cheap, and I'm sure its probably online to watch somewhere too if that's what your bothered about doing. Has some guys that WWE didn't have on their doc, goes into shit that WWE didn't, AND they made it before WWE bought the WCCW library so they are able to use footage too which is a HUGE plus for me. Both docs together really give you a good insight into the company and the people involved.

Just been channelling TRIPLE H in the garden, smashing shit with a sledgehammer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I watched both WCCW docs in one day. Talk about an emotional drain after about 6 hours of mostly depressing stories. But it was awesome for insight. Just god damn at the tragedies among a lot of that talent.

True story: I know a guy who went to school and Marc Lowrence was his part time teacher and he brought in stuff from the Sportatorium, etc. It was like having a third party to get some cool facts on WCCW since he grew up in Texas.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> That sounds like the justification as to why some think Davey Richards matches are great. I don't buy into it, personally.


It isn't really the same thing personally. What I see in a Davey Richards match is a no-sold car crash - in another words, fast-paced, fun but DEPRESSING wrestling from a spotmonkey. The fact that Meltzer gave that Richards/Edwards match ***** makes me wonder what kind of wrestling he enjoys. Whereas in the Angle/Benoit match, I saw an influx of Suplexes and submissions overkill that were actually trying to tell the most of a story they could, even if they didn't succeed too much. Let me remind you that, bar the (nice looking but ridiculous) submission countering, they were actually SELLING the other's offense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of docs, stuck in the Bret Hart one last night. Had the urge to watch it since I got the new Dungeon DVD from Platt and I pretty much just watched the bits with Bret talking on the first disc rather than any of the matches . Anyway... fuck me, the first half hour or so of the doc is so bleeding boring. I'm sure they have about 10 minutes of nothing but clips of him wrestling in Stampede. No talking over it, no switching to Bret or other people... just 10 minutes of random clips of Bret in Stampede :|.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> It isn't really the same thing personally. What I see in a Davey Richards match is a no-sold car crash - in another words, fast-paced, fun but DEPRESSING wrestling from a spotmonkey. The fact that Meltzer gave that Richards/Edwards match ***** makes me wonder what kind of wrestling he enjoys. Whereas in the Angle/Benoit match, I saw an influx of Suplexes and submissions overkill that were actually trying to tell the most of a story they could, even if they didn't succeed too much. Let me remind you that, bar the (nice looking but ridiculous) submission countering, they were actually SELLING the other's offense.


They're like the exact same thing when you look at it under the microscope only with the outlandish levels upped to 11 with Davey. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> They're like the exact same thing when you look at it under the microscope only with the outlandish levels upped to 11 with Davey. :lmao


Even though I really do dig their matches, I'll agree with you that it did resemble a Davey match at some points. DEM SUBMISSION NO-SELLS AND SPOTCALLINGS. Would've been pretty "cool" to see Benoit hit a Dragon Superplex on Angle only for him to no-sell and go immediatly for an Underhook Piledriver followed by a Shooting Star Press, because that's what makes a good match :kurt :vince


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Currently watching Sid/Vader vs Sting/British Bulldog from 1993. Just thought I'd put a random year in.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal loves the Rumble match. I think that one is solid, but Vengeance is really, really good. Been ages since I last saw the brass knucks on a pole match. Think that was their weakest of the series.





Big Z said:


> :mark: Love their series. Fucking LOVE them. Vengeance is great, RR is great, NWO is good but the weakest. Edge's first real defining singles feud and it was the beginning of Regal getting back to his NASTY ways. He'd been somewhat toned down for the most part since returning to WWE in 2000, but he started becoming more evil and gritty and shit with that feud.


Thanks for the replies, I was thinking of re-watching them as it seems to be a series that slips under the radar a bit. I loved Regal's brass knuckles phase and with him back on TV right now (however brief) it seems as good a time as any to re visit them.



KingOfKings said:


> Punk vs Triple H?
> 
> Love the chaotic nature of it and how things spiral out of control only for them to spiral even MORE out of control as the match continues on. The booking behind the match was completely atrocious as they easily could have gotten Punk his win back in the Cell but fuck (as if it matters when it comes to the match) I'll be damned if hairy chest Haitch and Punk didn't go out there and put on at least a GOOD match. I haven't seen it in a while and I had it at four stars on my last watch ; so take that inflation and deduct a half a star to a star, basically being in the three star-ISH range.
> 
> Then again, I'm predisposed to like it due to it being my legitimate biggest dream match EVER, so they could have went out there and taken a literal shit in the middle of the ring and I would have loved it.


Probably one of my top dream matches too, and I do enjoy that match but still am somewhat disappointed by it. I think it being no DQ hurt it since it was more of a brawl than anything else. I really just wanted to see those two go at it in a straight wrestling match. Though the brawling aspect was definitely the right way to go in terms of the story, it just didn't feel like much of a payoff. Oh how I wish I could see these two go at it at Mania.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Thanks for the replies, I was thinking of re-watching them as it seems to be a series that slips under the radar a bit. I loved Regal's brass knuckles phase and with him back on TV right now (however brief) it seems as good a time as any to re visit them.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably one of my top dream matches too, and I do enjoy that match but still am somewhat disappointed by it. I think it being no DQ hurt it since it was more of a brawl than anything else. I really just wanted to see those two go at it in a straight wrestling match. Though the brawling aspect was definitely the right way to go in terms of the story, it just didn't feel like much of a payoff. *Oh how I wish I could see these two go at it at* *Mania*.


There's still a pretty good chance, at 'mania 30. As for the match, there were too many interferences.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Is Rick Rude/Ric Flair any good from...I think 92 or 93?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Currently watching Sid/Vader vs Sting/British Bulldog from 1993. Just thought I'd put a random year in.


MASTERS OF THE POWERBOMB.

idc how cheesy the pre-match video/mini-movie was. That match OWNS.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Indeed it did. 4 great men in one ring.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> There's still a pretty good chance, at 'mania 30. As for the match, there were too many interferences.


Hopefully, would definitely be psyched for it. And yes, way too many interferences.

Just watched Edge/Regal from Vengeance 2001, and it really is a great match. Regal really is vicious throughout, just tossing Edge around outside the ring without care. As with most Regal matches, there's stiff uppercuts and knees to the head throughout. Edge sells well and to be honest is basically pummeled for the whole first half of the match. He makes a brief comeback and tries to hit a Spear from the apron, but Regal moves out of the way and Edge just dives straight into the steel steps. A really nice spot there and Regal's back in control. Then there's classic Regal as he retrieves the brass knucks from the ring post where they were hidden, really smart. Some awesome double-underhook powerbombs to Edge (always loved those powerbombs by Regal) and it looks to be over. Regal pulls the knucks from his tights but Edge hits him with the spear out of nowhere for the win. A really awesome match, Regal simply the man throughout. Edge was beaten down for most of the match but the finish made sense with Regal losing concentration for a moment and Edge capitalizing with the quick Spear. ****3/4*

Now onto their Rumble 2002 match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Indeed it did. 4 great men in one ring.


+ Jesse & Tony commentary duo. :mark:



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Hopefully, would definitely be psyched for it. And yes, way too many interferences.
> 
> Just watched Edge/Regal from Vengeance 2001, and it really is a great match. Regal really is vicious throughout, just tossing Edge around outside the ring without care. As with most Regal matches, there's stiff uppercuts and knees to the head throughout. Edge sells well and to be honest is basically pummeled for the whole first half of the match. He makes a brief comeback and tries to hit a Spear from the apron, but Regal moves out of the way and Edge just dives straight into the steel steps. A really nice spot there and Regal's back in control. Then there's classic Regal as he retrieves the brass knucks from the ring post where they were hidden, really smart. Some awesome double-underhook powerbombs to Edge (always loved those powerbombs by Regal) and it looks to be over. Regal pulls the knucks from his tights but Edge hits him with the spear out of nowhere for the win. A really awesome match, Regal simply the man throughout. Edge was beaten down for most of the match but the finish made sense with Regal losing concentration for a moment and Edge capitalizing with the quick Spear. ****3/4*
> 
> Now onto their Rumble 2002 match.


(Y)

Love that match. I should give the Rumble match a watch too. Been a good while since I've popped in one of my WWE DVDs, tbhayley. Ok, bit of a stretch since I did just watch No Way Out '12 about two weeks ago. Still, it's mostly been Puro, Joshi, or Indies for months now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kenny said:


> Indeed it did. 4 great men in one ring.


Well... one great man in the ring . And then SID.

So what did everyone think to Undertaker/Ambrose on SD this week? I loved the fucking shit out of it. Had a smile on my face the entire time. Short match, yes, but they got so much in, and it was amazing to see Ambrose even get a control segment on the fucking UNDERTAKER. Had to download the show 3 sodding times because the versions I got kept cutting out the moment the bell rang so I didn't see the aftermath at first. Undertaker got the surprise win (not surprise in the sense that nobody expected him to, but an "out of nowhere" kinda win), and fuck, the brawl with Shield afterwards was awesome. Everyone took amazing bumps, and Rollins' face after nearly getting chokeslammed off the barricade before Reigns saved the day with that spear was epic. Undertaker has had 3 matches this year, the same as Rock, and has absolutely SHATTERED everything from "the great one". Hell, Rock hasn't done anything as good as what Undertaker did this week alone since 2003. And even then it was just one match. Fuck you Rock. Undertaker is awesome. Duh. So yeah loved the match. Shield no doubt taking Undertaker out now for the rest of the year will give them a big rub rather than Undertaker simply vanishing after WM until next year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Is the match on youtube?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Have a look instead of asking...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Fine. :side:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That Smackdown aftermath. 

SHIELD if they already weren't were legitimized on Smackdown.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Edge/Regal from Royal Rumble 2002 is another great bout between the two. The referee checking the ringposts and steps before the match for brass knuckles is a nice callback to their Vengeance match, and he then checks Regal's tights (rather thoroughly I might add) and finds a pair and disposes of them. Edge then works on Regal's injured nose by simply slamming his head into the mat various times - good storytelling due to Edge's interview prior to the match where he proposed he had a mean streak just like Regal. Edge definitely looks a lot more vicious in this match and gets a lot more offense in. There's a lovely sequence later where Regal tries to hit the double-underhook powerbomb and Edge simply lifts him up and counters by slamming him down, only for Regal to keep the arms locked and hit the move after all. Edge then hits a nice DDT on the apron before Regal locks in the Regal Stretch and Edge makes it to the ropes. Regal then pulls the referee in front of Edge's Spear attempt. He then retrieves another pair of knucks from his tights and clocks Edge with them and picks up the win and the IC Title. Another top match, these two have very contrasting styles and they play off each other rather well. ****3/4*

I need to check the Ambrose/Taker match out too so I'll watch that before finally getting to Regal and Edge's third match in their series from No Way Out.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Well... one great man in the ring . And then SID.
> 
> So what did everyone think to Undertaker/Ambrose on SD this week? I loved the fucking shit out of it. Had a smile on my face the entire time. Short match, yes, but they got so much in, and it was amazing to see Ambrose even get a control segment on the fucking UNDERTAKER. Had to download the show 3 sodding times because the versions I got kept cutting out the moment the bell rang so I didn't see the aftermath at first. Undertaker got the surprise win (not surprise in the sense that nobody expected him to, but an "out of nowhere" kinda win), and fuck, the brawl with Shield afterwards was awesome. Everyone took amazing bumps, and Rollins' face after nearly getting chokeslammed off the barricade before Reigns saved the day with that spear was epic. Undertaker has had 3 matches this year, the same as Rock, and has absolutely SHATTERED everything from "the great one". Hell, Rock hasn't done anything as good as what Undertaker did this week alone since 2003. And even then it was just one match. Fuck you Rock. Undertaker is awesome. Duh. So yeah loved the match. Shield no doubt taking Undertaker out now for the rest of the year will give them a big rub rather than Undertaker simply vanishing after WM until next year.



It was good. Not great but they weren't going out there to have a great match. Was more a spectacle and to just highlight the Shield's presence in being able to be working Taker on TV of all places and teasing Taker becoming their next victim. Ambrose bumped well for everything Taker threw and I love his offence. I know people will probably tire of the Ledger's Joker comparisons with Ambrose but his reckless abandon on offence and just swinging wildly with punches and kicks really works well in highlighting his lunatic personality and how wild and uncontained he is. Loved the post match attack with Taker cleaning house and Ambrose's brilliant slow motion back bump off of Taker's punch before the spear and eventual beating of Taker. Really put them over as a major force and providing the heat was't canned it got the desired reaction as well.

Very interested in where they take them now on the back of one member having a loss against their name.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck Taker/Cena, Taker/Shield for WrestleMania 30 Main Event.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I watched Taker/Ambrose and it's a solid enough outing. Very short but with Takers health and schedule that maskes sense. Ambrose totally looks legit in there with the Phenom though, taking advantage of distractions to gain the upperhand and even having a little control segment. His facial expressions as always are awesome, and him taunting Taker only to be caught out with a chokeslam was very cool. I don't really have a problem with the finish, Hell's Gate is a very protected submission finisher and I could probably count on one hand the number of wrestlers who have escaped it. The beatdown after was fantastic aswell. I know we've seen the 'spear through the barricade' spot many times over the past few months but Reigns just brings an extra intensity to it and it always looks so vicious. The Shield talking trash after the powerbomb was great too and I'm still so happy they've been booked so strongly and are making such an impact.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Any other matches from Smackdown worth checking out? I knew the card looked awesome but I need some confirmation


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I enjoyed the Ambrose/Taker match.. it was a decent TV match that wasn't a squash. Even with help, Ambrose held his own with a legend and that's all you can ask for. I hate the finish just because Hells gate is a retarded move unless the opponent is going for a submission. Otherwise, logically it doesn't work because no one falls to their knees like that in that position.

BUT the Shield stayed strong.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

So does this mean Taker will be competing against one of the Shield members, next year at WM. If that's the case, I love the shield and all but WM30 has to be Taker/Cena, I don't give a flying fuck, It has to be on the card.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> Any other matches from Smackdown worth checking out? I knew the card looked awesome but I need some confirmation


Swagger/ Del Rio & Sheamus/Show


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

GOATAntics said:


> So does this mean Taker will be competing against one of the Shield members, next year at WM. If that's the case, I love the shield and all but WM30 has to be Taker/Cena, I don't give a flying fuck, It has to be on the card.


I doubt they're thinking that far ahead. Plus who knows, Taker may have a match against one of them at Summerslam or something.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Not necessarliy. I think Taker comes back before that. Maybe Summerslam. I mean fuck, look at Taker. He's not as beat up if he can work a raw and smackdown.. he was looking good and so why not milk as much appearences as you can. Sure, you risk injury but I see no reason why Taker should disappear til Mania'

The only positive of that, is Taker gets no revenge on the Shield, which gives The Shield even a bigger rub imo. They took out Undertaker and he didn't seek revenge? He scurred haha

Honestly, I would maybe go Cena/HHH/Taker three of the BIGGEST faces WWE has vs. The Shield at Summerslam.. with the Super face squad going over after a great match. Shield gotta lose sometime.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

No, This can't be another forgotten Nexus/Kane/Taker Angle, Revenge has to be on place.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I agree but I don't want it to be a HHH/Sheamus thing either where the Undertaker dispatches the Shield then focuses on whoever for mania on some random RAW.

Make the match huge.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think Undertaker definitely got revenge on Nexus after what they did. Little does everyone know, but Undertaker was booking their angle 8*D.

The whole Nexus shit was swept under the rug because he was only coming back for WM, and lets face it, Undertaker Vs anyone from Nexus at WM was far, far below Undertaker that it rightfully never happened.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

God, I hated that. They could of had redemption completed with a two-on-three RAW match with Kane, Barret and Sheamus against Trips and Taker in the weeks building up to WM27. Trips could of pedigreed Taker after the match to make their feud seem that more intense.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

So Regal/Edge from No Way Out 2002 is definitely not as good as their previous encounters. A 'brass knuckle on a pole match' is a strange idea and for the first half of the match they both seem a little unsure of how to go about it. It's pretty average, but steps up later as Regal takes control with a powerbomb on the outside and Edge starts to bleed from the mouth. Regal later takes a big bump on the outside after a botched hurricanrana before retrieving the knucks from the pole, only for Edge to suplex him from the top. Edge hits the Spear and retrives the knucks to finish Regal off, but Regal being Regal has a spare pair in his tights, and knocks Edge out with them to win the match and retain the IC title. As I said, not as good as their previous matches and I think the pole aspect hindered the match, although it did make sense for their third encounter to have a gimmick attached to it. *****


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd be prepared to write off any 'on the pole' match if it weren't for the Duggan/Dibiase No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Coal Miner's Glove,Tuxedo, Cage match from 3/22/85.

That's a sensational feud ending bloody brawl done right and despite the on paper absurd stipulation every single part of the gimmick makes sense in the context of their bitter and long running feud.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just watched RVD vs John Cena on Smackdown 2004.

Stay away from this match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In all fairness, you should stay away from most John Cena tv matches pre 2006 .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Or just avoid 99% of RVD matches .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Enjoyed Taker/Ambrose from Smackdown. Wasn't great, but didn't need to be. Ambrose got in a nice bit of offense, and walking into Hell's Gate is a classic rookie mistake, and it's probably the only "clean" finish that would have worked. 

I missed this earlier, but when Taker first took Ambrose to the outside and the crowd in front started in with the Taker chants, one guy countered with a "Let's go Dean-O" chant. :lol

And, yes. Revenge story must happen. But I don't think it will be a squash. WWE are clearly too high on these guys for that to happen.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Or just avoid 99% of RVD matches .


Is Benoit Vs RVD (Ss 2002), the 1%?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Is Benoit Vs RVD (Ss 2002), the 1%?


That + some matches with Eddie, Regal and Undertaker.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Why Cal, I thought you loved his matches with Eddie. .

EDIT: HE NINJED ME!!!. (ME SMASH, ME BASH)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'd be prepared to write off any 'on the pole' match if it weren't for the Duggan/Dibiase No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Coal Miner's Glove,Tuxedo, Cage match from 3/22/85.
> 
> That's a sensational feud ending bloody brawl done right and despite the on paper absurd stipulation every single part of the gimmick makes sense in the context of their bitter and long running feud.


Pretty good match, but I'd still write off 'on a pole' matches. Stupid fucking gimmick, made slightly more sensible with a cage involved.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> That + some matches with Eddie, Regal and Undertaker.


Plus match with Shelton (BL), with Orton (Armageddon, Raw 12/1/2004) and a match or two with Jericho. + much more. 

Gonna watch Smackdown now!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Andre The Giant vs. Killer Khan - Mongolian Stretcher Match *(***1/4)*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

...So I'm guessing that the RVD/Lynn series is hated on in these parts.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> ...So I'm guessing that the RVD/Lynn series is hated on in these parts.


Not by me, i love it, Spotfest - yeah, but i couldn't give a fuck, love the Living Dangerously the most i think (Y)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

They have one good match. No, it's not LD. Can't remember which one tho.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I was watching some BAM BAM stuff a while back and his match with RVD (in ECW) for the TV title in 1998, was absolutely awesome. *****1/4 * and anyone who is a fan of either guy should give it a watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Swagger/Del Rio Series:

WM: *****
4/19/13: ****3/4*
4/26/13: ****1/2*

I'm actually enjoying this three-man WHC feud. Smackdown is on a roll for the past two months.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Smackdown 1/4/08

Finlay/MVP - **1/2
Kenny/Victoria vs Chuck Palumbo/Michelle McCool - DUD
Chavo/Funaki - *
Batista/Hawkins & Ryder - *1/2
Yang/Moore vs Deuce/Domino - DUD
Henry/Taker - *
Mysterio/Edge - *

Wasn't anything special and the matches were really just based on the beat the clock series but the show itself flowed together decently.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Jericho ex 12 **** 1/2

notes-much better than their wm,this is more brawling based as opposed to technical.

so far
jan 2 ziggler ***1/4
rumble **** 1/4
ec **** 1/2 (criminally underrated)
wm 28 ****1/4
henry 4/2 ****
Jericho ex ****1/2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That Henry match with Punk is well viewed around here but I still think its criminally underrated. *****1/2* for me and without a doubt TV MOTY.

London match is a lot shorter but not too shabby either.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this on another forum:

_*Jushin Liger vs John Morrison - PWS Pro Wrestling Syndicate April 5, 2013 *_






Ill grab this me thinks...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smackdown ratings for this week: (first full Raw/SD I've watched since the post-Elimination Chamber show.

Del Rio vs Swagger - ★★¾
Sheamus vs Big Show - ★★½
Orton vs Henry - ★★ (Way too short)
Undertaker vs Ambrose - ★★¾


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Saw this on another forum:
> 
> _*Jushin Liger vs John Morrison - PWS Pro Wrestling Syndicate April 5, 2013 *_
> 
> ...


Only seen a couple Liger matches but this interests the hell out of me because MORRISON.

Would agree on those ratings C2D for the most part. Would probably drop Sheamus/Show and Orton/Henry 1/2* and add 1/4* to Ambrose/Taker.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Is Benoit Vs RVD (Ss 2002), the 1%?


RVD vs Cena at ONS is a classic. Not 5* or anything but fun and watchable.



GOATAntics said:


> I was watching some BAM BAM stuff a while back and his match with RVD (in ECW) for the TV title in 1998, was absolutely awesome. *****1/4 * and anyone who is a fan of either guy should give it a watch.


I remember watching this at like 2 in the morning on their Hardcore TV show and thought it was the greatest thing ever. RVD flipping into the crowd is still something I can picture in my mind. I also never thought RVD would win given the upcoming Sabu/Bam Bam match that never happened :gun:


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Undertaker vs Edge - Backlash 2008 - ****

Started off slow, which in my opinion added to the match, and it really got going by the end. Undertaker sold the back brilliantly. Edges counter out of the last ride was awesome. Didn't expect to see Edge lose to the submission again, but I guess it put the move over as a new finisher for Taker. MOTN.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Ahh. Here we go, 1987 JCP finally done, can move onto some Japanese related stuff & slowly watch through 1988 PPVs & Clashes from JCP/NWA/WCW. Thoughts on Starrcade down below.



Spoiler: Starrcade 1987 - Chi-Town Heat!



Starrcade 1987!

*Starting off with Michael Hayes, Jimmy Garvin & Sting up against the man from every womans dream, Eddie Gilbert, Larry Zybysko and the man who let them dogs out, Rick Steiner.*
Six man tag match. I can't remember this very well, but I did record the rating. ***1/4. What I can remember, Garvin soaked the offence from the heel group, with Gilbert doing the majority of the offence I believe. Mainly just to showcase some of their newer acquisitions I guess. Solid match to start up the card.

*Next up, 'Dr Death' Steve 'The man from JR's dreams' Williams up against Barry Windham. *
Windham was everywhere on the card in '87, and I think the crowd started to resent him.
Crowd totally shat on this. It was terrible, in all fairness. Would of expected something better from Windham, but Dr Death did a 'Ultimate Warrior', gassing himself out before the match, and during the deadlifting of Windham. Hit to the testicles slows the pace down, crazy bump by Windham, roll up when hes back in the ring, crowd shits on it. Terrible, dud.

*Scaffold match between the Rock n Roll Express and the Midnight Express.*
It was alright, doesn't get a rating since you can't work on scaffolding.
*
Nikita Koloff vs Terry Taylor TV title*
Was going to nominate this as MOTN, but out of nowhere, Garvin/Flair surged ahead. It's a strong match-up, I can't dig Nikita 100%, but I appreciate this ethic in the ring, and Taylor was solid here. They didn't compliment each other very well, but they gave it their best. Weird I can't find more to talk about, bleh. ***3/4. Koloff pulling off the consistencies in my ratingz. Surprises me since I don't really appreciate his babyface style. Works very hard, so balances out.
*
Road Warriors vs Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson Tag titles*
I don't think any man gave their best, pristine performance. They chipped in a solid performance all round, but no one went the extra mile, and felt like it was running the usual style for the men. That being said, I enjoyed it. Has everything you expect from a JCP heavyweight tag match. ***1/2

*Dusty Rhodes vs Lex Luger US title*
Was hoping to like this, then I realised, it'll be a Dusty title win. I am not going to. Share of offence, and neither men looked sterling at all. Everything they did felt pointless, nothing paid off. Lots of arm work, for an obvious Shoulder-rack or sleep hold finish. Didn't finish like that, though. Was a DDT on a chair. Wasn't hoping to watch Kurt Angle style matches tonight. Boo. *1/2
*
Ron Garvin vs Ric Flair World title*
I don't think it matches up to their match in October where Garvin captured the belt. It definately wasn't going to, until the final stretch. Everything flowed in perfectly and gave a solid finish. The ending was a bit weird, but it built for it, I guess. ***3/4. Weaker than their October bout. But still a very good match.​



Suppose it's consistent, 4 matches above ***, an 'alright' scaffold match, a big, fat dud and a co-main event that was never going to be great because both men needed their opposition to make them look good. I had higher expectations, and it didn't meet them. But finally, no more strings attached to watching their weeklies. Going to compile a best off (top 15-20 matches) and post it either later, or tomorrow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> They have one good match. No, it's not LD. Can't remember which one tho.


Hardcore Heaven. Awesome match, one of ECW's best. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Saw this on another forum:
> 
> _*Jushin Liger vs John Morrison - PWS Pro Wrestling Syndicate April 5, 2013 *_
> 
> ...


omgomgomgomgomgomg it was uploaded. :mark:

and I'm an advocate for just about ever RVD vs Lynn match out there.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Spoiler: Match of the Year List 1987!



****3/4
Barry Windham vs Ric Flair 01/20/87

****1/2
WarGames I
Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express (I believe 1st of July)

****1/4
Ricky Morton vs Tully Blanchard 1987 09 26
Jimmy Garvin vs Ric Flair 1987 07 18

****
Dusty Rhodes vs Tully Blanchard 1987 06 13
Ron Garvin vs Ric Flair 1987 10 03

***3/4
Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express 1987 07 04
WarGames II
Nikita Koloff vs Tully Blanchard 1987 08 29
Nikita Koloff vs Terry Taylor 1987 11 28
Ron Garvin vs Ric Flair 1987 11 28
Rock n Roll Express vs Rude & Bull 1987 02 21

***1/2
Nikita Koloff vs Arn Anderson 1987 08 08
Ric Flair vs Barry Windham 1987 01 13
The Road Warriors vs Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard 1987 11 28
Robert Gibson vs Tully Blanchard 1987 05 16
Lex Luger vs Nikita Koloff 1987 07 18 (clipped)​



Felt I'd get it out the way. Top 18, all ***1/2 or above. I didn't put them in order, except for you know, the starz. Favourite match is definately Jimmy Garvin/Ric Flair, just loved it. If I had access to Windham/Flair without subs, that is definately in contendership for the full five. Not much else to add, worker of the year is probably split between Eaton/Morton/Flair/Koloff/Blanchard. Hard to pick them apart. Eaton giving consistent tag performances, Morton having a fantastic match with Blanchard, add in with his form in tags. Flair occupies the most ****+ on my list, Koloff for supreme consistency and Blanchard has never lifted his foot off the pedal in performance, even in squashes. Probably give the nod to Flair because of the overall quality of his work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bobby Eaton for worker of the year mention. (Y)

Flair & Eaton were about on the same parallels during the thick of the 80's in their fields. Flair was killing it in the main event slot where as Eaton was doing the exact same where ever he was on the card. Tags, singles, & heck even squashes. Eaton is a marvel.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Reckon Lane in the latter part of the year was equal to Eaton, just clicked together, and Lane's antics during the RnR matches at the Bash were just fantastic. Pity he missed out the first 1/3rd of the year, and was sloppy at the Crockett Cup. Can't wait till their '88 matches, some fantastic teams come in, pun intended.

Definately agree with Eaton being a marvel, just did everything perfectly. What's his singles run in 91/92 like? Any stand outs?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

"Sweet" Stan is fantastic too. So good I ended up enjoying his work with Eaton more than I did while Condrey was in the fold. "Loverboy" rocks too. The whole lot of them are great.

Plenty if you ask me. Each time he got on PPV he delivered against Arn. Oh, worked vs Brad Armstrong in a match I liked too, iirc. Not to mention his match vs Flair on a Clash of the Champions. '92 was a given when he was in the Dangerous Alliance teaming with Arn & the rest. Some of the best tag matches ever for my money.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> *Scaffold match between the Rock n Roll Express and the Midnight Express.* It was alright, doesn't get a rating since you can't work on scaffolding.


Dundee/Koko 2/3 Falls Scaffold match will alter this stance and in the process sell you on the greatness of Bill Dundee  .

Fully agreed on Flair/Windham 1/20/87 as MOTY. Its neck and neck with their BOTB II match from '86 as far as their best encounter goes. The Flair/Windham story and character dynamic in their matches might just be the best in US wrestling for me, even if I have matches ahead of their best in terms of overall greatest US matches. The way each transition and sequence is dominated by the immense talent and ability of Windham vs resiliency and tenacious never give up spirit of Flair coupled with Flair's opportunism counteracting Windham's inexperience and eagerness just never ceases to amaze me.

Received the greatest rep message the other day from Seabs telling me the 26 Midnight Express comp had dropped and that he'd be working to send it out to me by next week. 26 discs of prime Bobby Eaton, Stan Lane, Dennis Coundrey, Jim Cornette and co to sink my teeth into :mark: .


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

There was something about Condrey & Eaton I couldn't dig when they tagged together. I believe they were missing something, whether that is quality opposition other than the Warriors & Rock n Roll in Mid-Atlantic. Lane was almost near the total package, imo. Just understood perfectly what he needed to do to take things that extra inch.

Fantastic to read, it's a pity that him having a great singles run came at the cost of Lane & Cornette, hope I don't take too long to reach 91/92. Should be 5 excellent years of WCW coming up.

Edit
Post came at the same time, I outstandingly agree with Windham/Flair just incredible matches. Even their impromptu match the week before their Worldwide clash (which I had rated in at ***1/2, went about 10 minutes, no idea, flew by). I have heard great things about their Crockett Cup match, but I never watched it since it was clipped. Every match except the main event was clipped on that show so I just skipped most of it.

I have been meaning to try watch a Memphis match a day, but I got lost after the Funk/Lawler match 03/21. Same applies to Mid-South actually, they should get more time after removing the weeklies from my viewing time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Here I went and spent my loose cash on a slew of Indie DVDs instead of trying to buy the Midnight Express or Liger comps from Seabs. Does that make me a bad person?


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDlh1dac-Y


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't tell anyone how many times I've watched that match.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

NO! said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDlh1dac-Y


Thanks, for the awesome video! :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Edit
> Post came at the same time, I outstandingly agree with Windham/Flair just incredible matches. Even their impromptu match the week before their Worldwide clash (which I had rated in at ***1/2, went about 10 minutes, no idea, flew by). I have heard great things about their Crockett Cup match, but I never watched it since it was clipped. Every match except the main event was clipped on that show so I just skipped most of it.
> 
> I have been meaning to try watch a Memphis match a day, but I got lost after the Funk/Lawler match 03/21. Same applies to Mid-South actually, they should get more time after removing the weeklies from my viewing time.


Crockett Cup match is significantly weaker than BOTB II & Worldwide, but given the former two are considered amongst the best in US history that's understandable. Its more 'very good-great' but below 'best match of the decade?' levels of BOTB II & Worldwide.



HayleySabin said:


> Here I went and spent my loose cash on a slew of Indie DVDs instead of trying to buy the Midnight Express or Liger comps from Seabs. Does that make me a bad person?


Liger comp I can excuse, might need to hear more about said Indy DVDs to ascertain whether you need an Inoki slap to the face for your insolence  .

FWIW if I can ever work out how to upload matches I might put up a few matches for you and anyone else who expresses interest in a select few matches.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Crockett Cup match is significantly weaker than BOTB II & Worldwide, but given the former two are considered amongst the best in US history that's understandable. Its more 'very good-great' but below 'best match of the decade?' levels of BOTB II & Worldwide.


Suppose lesser quality is to be expected. They went the distance in both Worldwide & BotB matches, whereas the Cup match was roughly 25 minutes. Fantastic series for sure.

Speaking of Windham, it's not a US match, but I was wondering if anyone has seen his Triple Crown match against Tenryu, and could shine some thoughts on it?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I truthfully can't recall that match tbh, though I don't believe I've ever heard of it as a universally praised match. Late 80s Windham was mid 90s Tenryu however would have been spectacular. Tenryu in his grouchy and most violent state against one of the most inherently likeable babyface characters in pro wrestling? Yeah you know that would have been the dogs bollocks and everything more.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Shall bust a review out for you when I get round to it. Definately comes across as a Japanese/American dream match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Both are all time greats, though I immensely prefer 'punt you in the eye, punch you in the jaw and show immense disgust for your continued existence via an escalating number of impressive facial expressions' Tenryu to 80s Tenryu. From what I've seen he's still very good in that decade, but the minute he gets caught up in the New Japan/WAR feud and becomes this violent bloodthirsty lunatic with a particular fondness for barbaric displays of torture to unsuspecting opponents he forges his way into my heart.

His 10/28/00 Triple Crown match vs Kawada is currently a working top 10 match of the decade as part of a project I'm doing with a few guys. Very good chance it could be #1 although preliminary competition amongst the top ten is absolutely fierce.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

link to that flair/windham from 1/20/87 ?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I should pay more attention at times, gave a check up on the set I found the match, and I made the lapse of all lapses. It's Tsuruta/Windham.  Oh God. Date being March 1990. Will have to apply the first question, is it up to the usual Windham quality?

Edit for above: You will probably only find Flair/Windham on Flair's Ultimate Collection, or by downloading a Windham or Flair comp, or by downloading the episode of Worldwide.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Ah, again going to have to confess I honestly can't recall ever seeing it mate. Again I can't recall too many of Barry's Japan matches being praised as bonafide classics or matching the peak of his US work, but perhaps there's an overlooked match or two I'm forgetting.

Yeah I searched Youtube & Dailymotion and only the BOTB II match from '86 & the Crockett Cup matches are up. No sign of the Worldwide match in full that I could see.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I heard Jumbo v. Windham is disappointing. Windham seemed to have a pretty dry run in 89/90/91. 

There _is_ a Windham v. Tenryu, btw. It's from 83.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

^Do you recommend it?



WOOLCOCK said:


> Ah, again going to have to confess I honestly can't recall ever seeing it mate. Again I can't recall too many of Barry's Japan matches being praised as bonafide classics or matching the peak of his US work, but perhaps there's an overlooked match or two I'm forgetting.


Shame, will definately have to dip into it then for some curiousity. Tsuruta is definately one of those people that should extract a quality match from any American worker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> ^Do you recommend it?


Oh I haven't seen that either.  But if I've learnt anything from watching random matches on YouTube, anything not involving Davey Richards or Chuck Taylor is worth a look out of curiosity.


Guys...

Guys.......

GUYS!!!!!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHcjmOtUSXM&list=PL077F8F751B8684D1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvrwMPZzklY&list=PL077F8F751B8684D1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OMt_E_iAw0&list=PL077F8F751B8684D1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGmpYkSvDj8&list=PL077F8F751B8684D1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wACDXMIHl6A&list=PL077F8F751B8684D1


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Needs some Steiner math lessons to completely sell me on the purchase.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

This match any good? Just randomly found it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, Windham's matches in Japan were never given enough time to really develop or he was thrown in a tag match. Best stuff I've seen from him was against Mutoh & tags with Bradshaw when they were the New Blackjacks (check out the stuff against Kobashi & Ace). His match from Tenryu was decent but it was in like'83-'84 so it was kinda before Windham was a big name. Think it went 10 minutes or so.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

4.04:

Steiner: "you gonna suck my dick or what?"
Jackie Gayda: "No."
Steiner: "then what the hell you in here for?"

:lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

War Games cover art revealed. Can't really say I like it that much... 

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-wcw-war-games-dvd-cover-art/39934/


----------



## Ruckus (Mar 30, 2010)

The random "Bitch!" quotes thrown in there were hilarious.

"You wanna kiss those arms baby?" ... "BITCH." :lmao

I miss Steiner's vulgar, obnoxious trash talking.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That Steiner video was my reason for existence back in 2009.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> War Games cover art revealed. Can't really say I like it that much...
> 
> http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-wcw-war-games-dvd-cover-art/39934/


Yeah......ew.


Found the entire disc two of the Greatest 21st Century thing to watch and grabbed it for Angle/Lesnar. I'll get around to it when I have actual motivation but I'm bizarrely looking forward to Jericho/RVD. I'll just watch the whole disc unless I've seen the match before. I don;t even know the whole listing and I don't want to know, it's like a youtube search thing and IDK what I'm getting. Kind of exciting. I am so lame.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol :lol :lol

YOU GOTTA BLOCK OUT THE PAIN ...... MAKE YOUR BODY GROW.

Your BACK can never be too big, I want you walking SIDEWAYS through the door.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Found the entire disc two of the Greatest 21st Century thing to watch and grabbed it for Angle/Lesnar.


 It's really good. Glad you mentioned it before so I could watch. Hope you enjoy as much as I did.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'm going through some CM Punk stuff right now. I've never really been a fan but haven't watched much of his stuff either. Some random ratings:

MitB @ WM 24 - ***. Gotta be the worst one ever.
vs Umaga @ Extreme Rules '08 in a Strap match - **1/2. Very formulaic match with nothing standing out.
vs Mysterio @ Armageddon '08 - ****. Awesome match. Really didn't think I'd enjoy it so much but they pulled out some nice sequences.
vs Jeff Hardy @ SummerSlam '09 in a TLC match - ****. Hardy tries to kill himself to keep Punk from the title and it ends up being a decent match. The post match stuff was fantastic. Watching Punk/Taker from HiaC next and hope it delivers.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Steiner talking about terrorism and supporting the troops :lol

"Get my bags...GET MY BAGS. And you shine my shoes if I wantcha too." :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

2012 Smackdown version & Mania 26 are probably the two worst MITB matches I can think of. Both loaded with botches. Havent seen 24 since it aired, don't remember a thing from it...

Don't expect much from Taker/Punk HIAC. It's short and nowhere near what it could've been. Believe Taker was hurt.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I remember 24 MITB being pretty good. weakest in my opinion was Mania 25


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved MITB IV. It's actually my favorite out of all of them and I have it at ****1/2. But I also have I at ****1/2.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jushin Liger is a legit GOAT

Mania 26 MITB is garbage. After they started the PPV, I stopped giving a shit.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Why does the wwe suck so much at brawls and cage matches?

they think cage match just means "people hit each other with the cage then someone escapes" and brawl means "bad punching, all over the arena, and a few contrived spots"


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If by brawl you mean matches like HHH/Lesnar or those random 10 minute or less matches from Smackdown, you have a point. However, if it comes to matches like Cena/Lesnar or Punk/Bryan MITB, you're wrong fella.

BTW, worst MITB has to be the Raw 2012 one. Still decent for what it was, and "decent" was already far above my expectations. And I'm in the minority, but my favourite one is 23.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Cena vs Lesnar works because its so damn unconventional. Like edge vs matt. Hence why its a great 'brawl'

but the rest, i just dont see it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'll give you Punk/Bryan MITB, which was fucking awesome for what it was. Also, Punk/Jericho ER, Shield/Rybell No (even though that was a TLC match but still a brawl), and Cena/ADR Falls Count Anywhere from Raw, all out of last year alone.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i didnt see Punk/bryan

anyways by brawl i mean those memphis style fights where two guys just beat the fuck out of each other with everything they can get their hands on

or slaughter vs sheik


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Punk/Bryan MITB is a perfect example of proving redead right tbh. Punk/Jericho didn't feel like a brawl either. Lame fire extinguisher spot, the big announce table elbow, all felt WWE 'sports entertain'-y and not like the kind of brawl redead would be talking about (if I understand him right and I'm pretty sure I do).

Cena/Lesnar and the Shield TLC are the kind of brawls I think are done really well. The TLC one had ladder/table spots and stuff, but pretty much all of them felt still had a brawly atmosphere to them. Rollins going the table didn't, but it was fucking nuts and didn't feel inorganic so I will not knock off points for that.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

basically

its one of the reasons I dislike attitude era brawls so much

most of the time theyre so contrived and spotty

Mick vs Dwayne or Austin vs Dwayne Wrestlemania 15 being good examples


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

JOAL.com said:


> i didnt see Punk/bryan
> 
> anyways by brawl i mean those memphis style fights where two guys just beat the fuck out of each other with everything they can get their hands on
> 
> or slaughter vs sheik


If so, try Taker/HHH WM 17, HHH/Cactus, Foley/Orton or Foley/Edge. Those right there were amazing ECW'ish, old school styled brawls. If you're looking for something from nowadays though, other than Taker/HHH 27 (and to a lesser extent 28), Shield/Rybell No and Orton/Christian SSlam 2011, I quite don't recall something like such so you do have a point.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Taker/Trip WM17 is boring and average but Trip/Jack, Edge/Foley and Orton/Edge are great. Those three have thumb tacks, barbed wire, one has fire and one other teases fire, one has a giant falling spot, one has a sledgehammer and all three have trash cans yet they're done really, really well and they don't feel lame and over-propped. You don't need many props to have a great brawl anyway - Eddie Guerrero v. JBL used only a chair and Jerry Lawler v. Bill Dundee typically only used the concrete floor.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

man JBL vs eddie was great

im gonna go watch that again for the 36846483th time


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I loved the Taker/HHH match from WM17. ****1/2 from me. Until the end many people believed that Trips would win this one. The storytelling and the brawl were great. Awesome match


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

what storytelling

it was just two guys punching each other over the arena while the ref stayed dead for 5 hours


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

JOAL.com said:


> what storytelling
> 
> it was just two guys punching each other over the arena while the ref stayed dead for 5 hours


The storytelling was THAT. The build up to the match, even with just one month, clearly especified that those two wanted to essentially kill each other, so the "punching each other all over the arena" thing did made quite some sense. The ref was dead for 5 hours, but still could've been far worse.

And in case you want a brutal brawl without any weapons, watch Benoit/Regal @ No Mercy '06. It's close to AMAZING.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

asides from the scaffold spot, i didnt really see much 'killing'

or even that many stiff shots


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, it did fall short in the "killing" part, and I also HATED the drama overkill this match had, as well as the MotY honors some have given it on the Internet (makes it feel very overrated) but it's still quite enjoyable for an all over the place brawl, and not many times can we say brawls the overdramatic kind of this one are good, let alone very good. Still, their WM 28 match is their best one imo, and no the drama put in that one isn't overdone, it's about PERFECT for its kind.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I see so many people talk about JBL/Eddie JD 2004 and in good praise, but what about their GAB match, that callback spot to JD with the chair was amazing, IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Their GAB match was a classic as well. The ending sucked but everything before was great. Even though he's no Benoit or Finlay in the ring, JBL is still one of Eddie fucking Guerrero's greatest rivals ever, kayfabe and in actual wrestling terms. Gotta have some talent in something for that.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

JBL was very very very good as a heel

he just didnt give a fuck, he acted like a dick and fucked over anyone who was weaker, and the moment he looked screwed hed turn chickenshit heel and cry like a little bitch

very very old school heel


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought this was on a WWE DVD tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Couldn't agree more with Kurt here.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I disagree. When the fuck did he have an amazing match with Eddie? Their best was good and fun, nothing more (2 out of 3 falls on SD).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I disagree. When the fuck did he have an amazing match with Eddie? Their best was good and fun, nothing more (2 out of 3 falls on SD).


You don't think SummerSlam is AT LEAST very good, Cal?


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

2013 ABA :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> You don't think SummerSlam is AT LEAST very good, Cal?


SS was utter shite. Worse than WM.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Eddie almost had a nervous breakdown when he wrestled kurt

kept screaming at him to sell his fucking offence and Kurt just kept getting up


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> SS was utter shite. Worse than WM.


Wow. Opinions differ so much around here that they become harder bitches than Kim Kardashian.

Although you do have to agree "He also wrestled Chavo"


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Angle/Guerrero at SummerSlam is a complete wreck of a wrestling match and I do not blame all of that on Angle. Shitty booking and the worst performance of Eddie Guerrero's career. 

"You're right Kurt, maybe I can;t beat you without cheating...but what if I can?"

*cheats to win*

----

This Chavo hate thing is getting SO out of hand. I will do a Watch-A-Thon of Chavo and find a bunch of cool shit. Hell I did that already a couple of months ago but didn't talk about anything. He carried Kidman's sorry ass and had a good match with Funaki. Right now I am doing HHH, though. I have youtube open and READY~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Chavo hate thing comes off, in my case, because he's like one of the most boring, uncharismatic and just straight up dull guys I've ever seen wrestle. He isn't Godawful as far as his skills go, it's just that the guy doesn't have anything about him that remotely excites me in his matches. He's had a couple of good matches, I'll give you that (his Falls Count Anywhere and I Quit matches vs Rey from '06 are very good for example), but other than that I don't see what's there to like about him.

Meanwhile, I'm coming back to my PG Era project, and I'm checking out a Top 20 Superstars 2011 matchlist. Masters & JTG vs Hawkins ( :mark: ) and Chavo (  ) is at #20, imma check that out.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I did like both Chavo/Benoit matches, Survivor Series a little more than Armageddon, but both were pretty good. I also liked Vicki's involvement, because it wasn't as saturated as today's product make it seem.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Chris Masters & JTG vs. Chavo Guerrero & Curt Hawkins*: ***. JTG proved me in this match that, if he's ever given a chance to ressurect, it's semi-deserved because he actually can go in the ring. Some smooth selling and good Tag Team wrestling, added with Masters' terrific storytelling and a nice crowd involvement made this a pleasant surprise for me (despite having Chavo & JTG in there). Yeah, and Masters and Hawkins are awesome.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Chavo vs. Rey @ GAB 2004 is probably the best SD 04 match that doesn't involve Eddie.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Paul London vs. Billy Kidman from No Mercy '04 says otherwise (though Rey vs. Chavo is awesome too).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH v. Spike Dudley (Raw, "WrestleMania XX in 41 Days", so yeah that date)
This is supposedly the only match HHH had on Raw between December 2003 and March 2003. Does anyone know if that's true? Seems silly. HHH cuts a promo and mentions how 'impressive' it was that Benoit managed to hurt Mark Henry and I think Henry/Benoit was 2/2/04, so this was probably 2/2/04. HHH's promo is also boring and WWE-average, if you know what I mean. This is pretty short (which is what I'm looking for and DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO FIND A SHORT HHH MATCH?), but is a neat little squash. Trip is all cocky, and then when Spike gets his offense in Trip is taken aback and then just kinda, wins. His strikes looked cool here and I don't know when the last time I saw HHH throw a chop was, but he seemed to be pretty good at it. Spike got DESTROYED on the pedigree. Man alive he just jumped head-first ready to cripple himself. It was like the less gruesome and purposefully done version of Marty Garner Thinks He's Selling A Butterfly Suplex.

HHH v. Mark Henry (Raw 6/23/08)
HENRY! He comes out all smiles, bowing and laughing. Completely fucking awesome entrance. Completely fucking awesome Henry showing. Henry rules. He has some of the best facial expressions in recent wrestling history; I love the ones during his trash talking. And yeah, his trash talking rules too. Henry rules. Trip fires a DX-crotch chop at him and after some opening shit Henry fires one right back him. Henry rules? Yeah, Henry rules. Henry knocks HHH over after a shoulder tackle competition thingy and struts for a second like 'yeah, that happened'. Henry rules. This was Henry getting to work over Trip (which kinda ruled), and then HHH having a 'Can He Knock Him Down?' comeback. Trip isn't a very good comeback guy, but he'd use bigger and better offense the more Henry would wobble. Until he tried an Irish whip which Henry countered. Trip countered that into his Nobody Hits a Back-Body-Drop on Me Knee and after a jumping knee Henry finally goes down. It was bizarrely done, too. On impact it looked like there was almost no way Henry would fall over from that, but then he does in this oddly convincing way. I found myself questioning whether or not he actually meant to fall down at that point. Probably done purposely because Henry rules. Kind of a shitty moment where Henry walks into a big boot by HHH instead of running, but wha/ev. 2008 is a year where people say HHH did some of his best work, but it seemed like Henry was very clearly leading this one.

HHH v. Jeff Hardy (Raw, 12/02)
What do I even say about this? Jeff has his shine, Trip works over Jeff, Jeff has a semi-comeback, and Trip wins. But goddamn it was a pretty boring 4 minutes. Not even bad, just....average. It felt like nothing even happened. HHH really didn't do anything to make the moves he was using interesting. Fuck, he couldn't create a fun 4 minute match around this time so it's no wonder his 20 minute PPV matches stunk up the Earth. 

Not gonna lie I've already had enough.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DISAPPROVED


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best match between Angle and Eddie is not even from 2004. It's the one they have a couple of weeks after Wrestlemania 21. Think it appears in Eddie's DVD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well since I get paid on Tuesday, I decided to make a big order on SV (paid with paypal which takes 3 days to show up on my bank, so I can buy shit before I have money which is awesome ):

Undertaker: This Is My Yard & Hard Knocks & Cheap Pops DVD (2 Discs) - Got the Foley one original release, but I never got around to buying the Undertaker one (had a dual layer DVD copy of it), so yeah, got it for that.

Triple H: The Game & Triple H: That Damn Good DVD (2 Discs) - I always enjoyed the HHH doc from The Game, and since SV will no longer be selling WWE DVD's soon and I highly doubt Freemantle will release this kind of set (they claim they'll have their own version of TC, but fuck knows when that'll be, how much they'll be and what they'll actually release), figured I'd pick it up now.

Action! & Hardcore DVD (2 Discs) - Random hardcore title shit makes me :mark: so I picked this up.

In Your House 17 & 18 DVD (2 Discs) - Got these on my PC as full DVD iso files, but never owned them. About time I did, just so I can have the unblurred version of the GOAT match on actual DVD + GZ match too.

In Your House 14 & 15 DVD (2 Discs) - Pretty much just for Bret/Austin and Shamrock/Vader.

In Your House 11 & 12 DVD (2 Discs) - SID Vs Bret.

In Your House 9 & 10 DVD (2 Discs) - 6 man tag from IYH 9 is awesome. 

SummerSlam 2004 DVD - Undertaker/JBL, and Orton/Benoit since I doubt it'll ever be released on a set again.

No Mercy 2004 DVD - Undertaker/JBL .

Wrestling With Shadows 10th Anni Collector's Edition DVD (2 Discs) - Only ever owned a copied version of this.

WWE Live in the UK: April 2011 DVD (2 Discs) - Need it to complete my Live in the UK collection. Shows look shite though. Fun but short Ziggler/Masters match at least.

WWE Live In The UK: April 2008 DVD (2 Discs) - Same as above. Plus Undertaker Vs Batista. Regal/Orton. HHH/JBL. Show/Henry. Could have sworn I owned this already, but I got all my DVD's out and I can't find it. So I probably will after it arrives. Already made that mistake with the Nov 2011 one :lmao.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

This is a great divas match, I recommend it, especially for you AJ marks. All three of those girls did a good job. I didn't know Kaitlyn was that good because of her smackdown/raw matches, I knew Tamina was good and I knew AJ was but I didn't know Kaitlyn could go like this. :mark: I rate it a 6/10 or 7/10, Inb4 "that's too high", not to me. Too bad AJ sold like Dolph alot in the match and took more beatings. :lol Which is typical.

Stuff like this makes me wish they would stop doing Bella Twins vs Funkadactyls or intergender mixed tag team matches and just do more stuff like this.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Watched Edge/Jericho ER Steel Cage.

Not impressed, at all. 

The "psychology" of Jericho was retarded, commentators tried to cover it up by saying he hated Edge so didn't care for the win when he was a second from winning. That completely ruined the match for me. The in ring work wasn't terrible but it wasn't anything special at all. Really didn't feel the hatred at all and at times it was just plain dull. 

**** at MOST. These two should have done better. 2010 was an odd year for Edge, he wasn't on his A-Game at any point that i can remember.

Also, just read that :cena3 is injured. Oh shit.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

How would you rate their WM 26 match? I haven't seen that match in ages but I hated the finish. Last thing I remember is, Jericho gave him a codebreaker, he kicked out, he did it again, and he finally won. That was weird. It'd make sense if Edge was injured or something, like they do with cash-ins where the guy still kicks out yet they're banged up, but Edge didn't seem injured at all in the match.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

WM match was better but still underwhelming.

***3/4* for WM after a recent re-watch


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

***** for Jericho/Edge at Mania. Though that may be a little high, I haven't watched it in a while. Don't really have much desire too though, a really underwhelming feud as Ever Wolf pointed out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, where did Clique's posts go? I understand he happened to repeat what my post at the top of this page said but no need for removing it. 

Speaking of steel cage matches, I finally rewatched Orton vs Christian from 30/8/2011 SD and wow, what an awesome match! 11 minutes excluding commercials and exciting all the way through. Hot crowd, nice callback spots (specially Christian's fakes that lured Orton) and some awesome back and forth. Like the storytelling too with Christian being desperate to regain the title so he tries most of the time to go for the easy way out but even when he has the opportunity, he tries to make sure of it like the Frog Splash. ★★★¾

Fuck, how did the company turn into sucking so fast? I enjoyed most of 2011 but since last year, everything has been so dead. Oh and I just realized that I really miss Christian. Such an awesome worker who will always deliver with awesome TV matches. Remember his second reign during the summer when he could have good TV matches with anyone from Ezekiel Jackson to Sin Cara.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bubba Ray Dudley Vs Kurt Angle - Raw 19/06/2000

Everyone else is doing this (well like, 2 people or something. But they be cool, so I wanna be cool too and emulate them), so why not? Decided that Bubba Ray's singles run in 2002 would provide me with some interesting choices .

:lmao at Angle's promo. Talking about how the crowd in Nashville use tables for different reasons; putting their welfare money on, or having INCEST on :lmao.

Ok, so this is from 2000 and NOT 2002. LOL. I knew they had a match in 2002 so I just assumed this was it. Then they showed clips of DX attacking the Dudleys and I knew something was up .

Bubba is super fun on offence, punching the hell out of Angle, hitting a sweet back suplex and an awesome powerbomb. Then he takes a helluva bump from Angle's favourite spot, the belly to belly overhead off the ropes. Bubba pretty much flew to the other side of the ring.

Angle tries for a countout, then Bubba makes his comeback which again is super fun stuff. Then he takes a German Suplex! He gets vengeance on Kurt for all these suplexes with a superplex of his own, before running into an Angle Slam which was a pretty nice set up. And since this is 2000, the Angle Slam ACTUALLY ENDS THE MATCH!

Fun stuff. Bubba had an awesome moveset back in the day. I still like him now, but he was much different as a tag wrestler that wrestled singles occasionally.


Bubba Ray Dudley Vs William Regal - Raw in 2002 sometime

Definitely a 2002 Raw since King mentions the "get the F out" crap. Euro title is on the line, with Regal as champ, and he has Molly Holly with him too. 

Regal thinks Bubba must be hiding sweets inside his head or something with the way he's smashing it with his forearm. Bubba dances before dropping an elbow. Regal continues to smash Bubba's face with various parts of his body.

Bubba goes for a table, but gets attacked by Lesnar and this one is over. Tried looking for the Lesnar match but was nowhere to be found. 

Match is short and sweet. Regal is all nasty and Bubba... well he just kinda coasts on his punches and dancing before hitting certain moves. Regal knocks him out after the Lesnar attack too. Regal was great in this.


Bubba Ray Dudley Vs Triple H - Raw in 2002 sometimes

Couldn't be arsed to look up proper dates. WHC is on the line. I remember that this TV feud seemed to last forever at the time. Was probably only a couple of weeks or something lol. I liked that they did TV feuds back then when they did single brand PPV's so there were like 8 weeks between them. Bubba writes HHH on a table and says he guarantees HHH is going through it. Bubba also claims he's winning the WHC. Pfft, Bubba ain't world champion material... .

Bubba tries to wrestle a smart match, knowing that HHH is dangerous and shit and that Flair is on the outside and can fuck him up too. But eventually it all becomes too much, and Flair sends Bubba into the steel steps on the outside, and HHH begins to slowly wear him down. He takes a great beating, and then I love his punches during his comeback. HHH sells them like a fucking gun shot too. Bubba says its table time, Flair gets involved and taken out. Bubba walks into a Pedigree, but counters! He sets HHH up for a powerbomb, but HHH counters, and then finally hits the Pedigree. Bubba is DONE.

This was good, and thankfully not lengthy (HHH late 02, so lengthy would not be a good thing lol), under 10 minutes after entrances and Bubba's promo. HHH was fine in his beatdown, but Bubba was super fun again.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

HOLY SHIT :mark:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Holy Shizzam, Taker & Eddie vs. JBL & Orlando, I gotta see this. Thanks Tanner for the embed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> HOLY SHIT :mark:


Thanks mate, be grabbing that in abit (despite having Orlando Jordan in it lol )


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

JOAL.com said:


> Eddie almost had a nervous breakdown when he wrestled kurt
> 
> kept screaming at him to sell his fucking offence and Kurt just kept getting up


I laughed reading this, mostly because I could so picture it happening.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Returned to my PG Era project, and decided to find myself all the ****+ I have since then:

John Cena vs. Batista, SummerSlam 2008 - ****
The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008 - ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Unforgiven 2008 - ****
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, No Mercy 2008 - ****1/4
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels, No Mercy 2008 - ****3/4
The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008 - ****
Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008 - ****
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Armageddon 2008 - ****
Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008 - ****
YTHERENOJERICHOSMILEY
--------------------------------------------------------------
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, Raw 1/26/2009 - ****1/4
Jack Swagger vs. Christian, ECW 2/24/2009 - ****1/2
WWE Title Elimination Chamber, No Way Out 2009 - ****
WHC Title Elimination Chamber, No Way Out 2009 - ****1/2
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25 - *****
John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne, ECW 4/14/2009 - ****
Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009 - ****
John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009 - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009 - ****
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2009 - ****1/4
Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Extreme Rules 2009 - ****1/2
CM Punk vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Raw 6/15/2009 - ****
Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio, The Bash 2009 - ****3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Smackdown 7/10/2009 - ****
Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler, SummerSlam 2009 - ****
DX vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009 - ****
Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009 - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Smackdown 8/28/2009 - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison, Smackdown 9/4/2009 - ****1/2
DX vs. Legacy, Breaking Point 2009 - ****
Christian vs. William Regal, Breaking Point 2009 - ****
Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point 2009 - ****1/4
Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009 - ****
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009 - ****
YTHERENOREYSMILEY
----------------------------------------------------------------------
30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010 - ****1/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler, Smackdown 2/5/2010 - ****
Christian vs. Ezekiel Jackson, ECW 2/16/2010 - ****
WHC Title Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2010 - ****1/4
Chris Jericho vs. Goldust, Superstars 3/4/2010 - ****
The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 26 - *****
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Extreme Rules 2010 - ****
John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010 - ****1/2
Dolph Ziggler vs. Chris Masters, Superstars 5/13/2010 - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010 - ****1/4
The Hart Dynasty vs. JeriMiz, Over The Limit 2010 - **** (EXTREMELY underrated imo)
Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010 - ****
WHC Title Contract Money In The Bank, Money In The Bank 2010 - ****1/4
WWE Title Contract Money In The Bank, Money In The Bank 2010 - ****
Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton, Raw 7/19/2010 - ****
Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010 - ****1/2
The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010 - ****1/4
William Regal vs. Goldust, Superstars 9/23/2010 - ****
Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010 - ****
Randy Orton vs. Sheamus, Hell In A Cell 2010 - ****
Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio, Smackdown 10/10/2010 - ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan, Bragging Rights 2010 - ****1/2
Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 10/25/2010 - ****
Dolph Ziggler vs. Daniel Bryan, Smackdown 10/29/2010 - ****1/4
Sheamus vs. John Morrison, TLC 2010 - ****
Kane vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio, TLC 2010 - **** (Bumped it up from previous watch, seemed to enjoy it more this time)
:dazzler
--------------------------------------------------------------
The Miz vs. John Morrison, Raw 1/4/2011 - ****
Edge vs. Dolph Ziggler, Royal Rumble 2011 - ****
WHC Title Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2011 - ****1/2
The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27 - ****1/2
Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio, Extreme Rules 2011 - ****1/4
Chris Masters vs. Drew McIntyre, Superstars 5/23/2011 - ****
Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011 - ****1/2
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011 - ****1/4
Heath Slater, Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs. The Usos & Trent Barreta, Superstars 6/30/2011 - ****
WHC Contract Money In The Bank, Money In The Bank 2011 - ****1/2
John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money In The Bank 2011 - ****3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. John Cena, Raw 7/25/2011 - ****
Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett, SummerSlam 2011 - ****
Christian vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2011 - ****1/2
CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011 - ****1/4
John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011 - ****
Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011 - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler, Raw 11/22/2011 - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011 - ****
rton / unk
---------------------------------------------------------------
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 1/30/2012 - ****1/4
WWE Title Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2012 - ****
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Smackdown 2/21/2012 - ****
The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 28 - *****
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, WrestleMania 28 - ****1/2
The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania 28 - **** (I'm in the minority for this rating  )
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan, Extreme Rules 2012 - ****3/4
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2012 - ****3/4
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2012 - *****
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Over The Limit 2012 - ****3/4
Christian vs. Drew McIntyre, Superstars 5/31/2012 - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Kane vs. Daniel Bryan, No Way Out 2012 - ****
Sheamus vs. Chris Jericho, Smackdown 7/13/2012 - ****
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012 - ****1/2
Cody Rhodes vs. Justin Gabriel, Superstars 8/23/2012 - ****
Seth Rollins vs. Jinder Mahal, NXT 8/29/2012 - ****
Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler, Night Of Champions 2012 - ****
CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012 - ****1/2
Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012 - ****1/4
Team Foley vs. Team Ziggler, Survivor Series 2012 - **** (DEFINITELY in the minority here :lol )
Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz, Main Event 11/21/2012 - ****
Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield, TLC 2012 - ****1/2
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena, TLC 2012 - ****
unk2
----------------------------------------------------
The Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio, Smackdown 1/11/2013 - ****
Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber 2013 - ****1/4
John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013 - ****1/4
The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013 - **** (DON'T KILL ME PLZ, I must be the only person in this entire forum who thought good of it, FAAAAAAAARRR better than the boring-ass RR match)
John Cena vs. CM Punk, Raw 2/27/2013 - ****1/2
The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania 29 - ****1/2
William Regal vs. Kassius Ohno, NXT 4/10/2013 - ****1/4
Team Hell No & The Undertaker vs. The Shield, Raw 4/22/2013 - ****
So far, probably :ambrose2, :rollins and :reigns


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz6rnf_kane-goldust-booker-t-bubba-ray-dudley-vs-lance-storm-christian-william-regal-test-unforgiven-2002_sport?search_algo=2#.UX1TsMpV_ww

Click it. Watch it. Love it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That list was fun till I got to EC 13.

NOPE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punk vs Rock from EC was boring. Their Rumble match was much better. In EC, Punk kept going back to that damn chinlock every other minute even if it's not his fault.

At least the Rumble match had more action and other than the stupid restart finish, was a good match IMO. Glad that I'm not the only one who has Rock vs Cena I at ★★★★, though.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Great list! I did not know Bryan and Ziggler had other matches in 2010; I really enjoyed Bragging Rights. At a guesstimate, it'd probably be my #2 match of 2010.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> That list was fun till I got to EC 13.
> 
> NOPE.


Well, before Rock/Punk II I'll suppose... c'mon, The Shield/Justice League was there too :$



Choke2Death said:


> Punk vs Rock from EC was boring. Their Rumble match was much better. In EC, Punk kept going back to that damn chinlock every other minute even if it's not his fault.
> 
> At least the Rumble match had more action and other than the stupid restart finish, was a good match IMO. Glad that I'm not the only one who has Rock vs Cena I at ★★★★, though.


The chinlock was still better than many moves performed in the RR match. To me, the EC match was exactly what their previous outing should've been: slow and methodical, but still with a point to prove. The atmosphere rocked (and punked too  ), the major spots (the GTS, the announce table, etc.) were much better executed here, Punk wasn't made like an absolute chump (as a matter of fact, he actually looked really strong, and in kayfabe terms, he had Rock beat there) and the ending was what the RR one should've been - with the (second) Rock Bottom. No overbooking crap, no People's Elbows finishing off, some nice callbacks too. Oh, and Punk showing Rock the middle finger was a mark out moment for me because I can't stand Rock nowadays. Hit me much better than the buzzkiller that was the 1/4* - DUD worthy RR match. Such a shame that 2013 Rock swallows small penis. Dwayne from 10 years ago vs Punk from today would be badass.

And I'm also glad I'm not the only one who has Rock/Cena I at **** either.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I enjoyed some portions of the Rock/Punk EC match. Punk played the heel character brilliantly by spitting and slapping the Rock, trying to get into his head so that Rock loses it and ends up disqualifying himself. So some great storytelling there. The stipulation was also played when Punk rock bottomed the Rock on the announcer's table which led to the referee counting down. The finish was also miles better the Rumble match. Only thing that sucked about this match is the long ass rest holds in the middle. At least they made sense in the Rumble match considering CM Punk was trying to injure the mid section which caused the Rock internal bleeding (apprantly) due to the Shield attack.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just rewatched Team Hell No vs ZiggBig from Mania 29. My God what a fun match. The callback spot at the beggining is still priceless, the action was fast and furious but always with a smooth flow and with nice psychology in between, and the storytelling is purely awesome. Reminded me so much of matches like Matt/Rey WM 19 and London/Kaz on Velocity in that they crammed so much in slightly above 5 minutes. Loved it. ****1/4. *


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Have you seen the "The 50 greatest WWE Championship Matches ever!" list made by WWE.com. How do you rate those matches?




> Bret/HBK- Survivour Series 97 ***3/4
> Miz/Morrison- RAW June 11 ***
> Austin/Foley- OTE 98- ****
> Cena/Batista- OTL 10 ***3/4
> ...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/HBK- Survivour Series 97 Shite
Miz/Morrison- RAW June 11 **1/2
Austin/Foley- OTE 98- ****1/2
Cena/Batista- OTL 10 ***
Eddie/JBL- GAB 04- ***3/4
Punk/Bryan- OTL 12 ****3/4
Cena/HHH- WM 22 ***3/4
Taker/HBK- RR 98 ****1/4
Rock/Foley- RR 99 ***3/4
Punk/Jericho- ER 12 ***1/4
Angle/Lesnar- SD Iron Man ****1/2
Austin/Jericho- Vengeance 01 **
Rock/Lesnar- SD August 03 ??? What match is this supposed to be?
Cena/JBL- JD 05 ****
Rock/HHH/Angle- SS 00 Shite
Lesnar/Eddie- NWO 04 ****3/4
Rock/HHH- JD 00 ****1/2
Austin/Angle- Unforgiven 01 ****
Punk/Cena- SS 11- ****1/4
Savage/Dibiase- WM 4- **
Orton/Cena- BR 09 **1/2
Austin/Rock- BL 99 ***1/4
HHH/Jericho- RAW April 00 ***1/2
Angle/Lesnar- WM 19 ****
Taker/Rock/Angle- Vengeance 02 ****
Cena/Mysterio- RAW July 11 ***3/4
Lesnar/Taker- NM 02 ****3/4
Cena/RVD- ONS 06 **1/2
HBK/Mankind- Mind Games ****3/4
Flair/Savage- WM 8- ***1/2
Edge/Cena- Unforgiven 06- **1/2
HHH/Foley- RR 00 ****3/4
Bret/Owen- SS 94 Shite
Hogan/Savage- WM 5- ***1/4
Rock/Foley- RAW January 99 ***1/4
Cena/HBK- WM 23 ***3/4
Taker/Hardy- RAW July 02 ****
Hogan/Warrior- WM 6 ***3/4 or ***1/2 I forget
92 Rumble Match- *****
Cena/Punk- MITB 11 ****3/4
Hogan/Andre- WM 3 Shite
Rock/Austin- WM 17 ****1/2
HBK/Bret- WM 12 Shite


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Spoiler: ratings



50. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997 - *N/A*
49. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Monday Night Raw (Jan. 4, 2011) - ★★★¾
48. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, Over the Edge 1998 - ★★★★½
47. Superstar Billy Graham vs. Bob Backlund (Feb. 20, 1978) - N/A
46. John Cena vs. Batista, Over the Limit 2010 - ★★½
45. Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Great American Bash 2004 - ★★★½
44. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Over the Limit 2012 - ★★★½
43. Bruno Sammartino vs. Ivan Koloff (Jan. 18, 1971) - *N/A*
42. John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22 - ★★★★
41. Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998 - ★★★★
40. Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999 - ★★★★½
39. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2012 - ★★½
38. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, SmackDown (Sept. 16, 2003) - ★★★★½
37. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001 - ★★★
36. The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002 - ★★★★¼
35. Superstar Billy Graham vs. Dusty Rhodes (Oct. 24, 1977) - *N/A*
34. John Cena vs. JBL, Judgement Day 2005 - ★★★★½
33. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. Triple H, SummerSlam 2000 - *N/A*
32. Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004 - ★★★★¾
31. Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, Saturday Night's Main Event (Jan. 3, 1987) - *N/A*
30. The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgement Day 2000 - ★★★★
29. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001 - ★★★¾
28. CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011 - ★★¼
27. Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4 - *N/A*
26. Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009 - ★★★★
25. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Backlash 1999 - ★★★¾
24. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho, Monday Night Raw (April 17, 2000) - ★★★¾
23. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania 19 - ★★★★
22. Bruno Sammartino vs. Killer Kowalski (April 29, 1974) - *N/A*
21. Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, Vengeance 2002 - ★★★★¾
20. Rey Mysterio vs. John Cena, Monday Night Raw (July 25, 2011) - ★★★★
19. Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker, No Mercy 2002 - ★★★★¾
18. Iron Sheik vs. Hulk Hogan (Jan. 23, 1984) - ★¾
17. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2006 - ★★★★
16. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, In Your House (Sept. 22, 1996) - *N/A*
15. Ric Flair vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, WrestleMania 8 - *N/A*
14. Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006 - ★★★★
13. Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000 - ★★★★
12. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, SummerSlam 1994 - ★★★★¼
11. Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5 - *N/A*
10. The Rock vs. Mankind, Monday Night Raw (Jan. 4, 1999) - ★★★½
9. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23 - ★★★★
8. Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy, Monday Night Raw (July 1, 2002) - ★★★¾
7. Bret Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid, Monday Night Raw (July 11, 1994) - *N/A*
6. Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6 - *N/A*
5. Royal Rumble match in 1992 - *N/A*
4. John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money in the Bank 2011 - ★★★★½
3. Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, WrestleMania 3 - ★★
2. The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, WrestleMania 17 - ★★★★★
1. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 12 - *N/A*



Shit list with many great matches missing such as:
- Eddie Guerrero vs JBL (Judgment Day 2004)
- Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 2001)
- Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 2003)
- The Rock vs Chris Benoit (Fully Loaded 2000)
- Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (SummerSlam 2003)
- Stone Cold vs Kurt Angle (SummerSlam 2001)
- Randy Orton vs John Cena (No Way Out 2008)
- Randy Orton vs Triple H (No Mercy 2007)
- Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 2007)
- Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 2003)
- John Cena vs Umaga (Royal Rumble 2007)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Spoiler: ratings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a WWE.com list. You were HONESTLY expecting these? :lol

But yeah, it's frustrating that they're so biased regarding the top stars and whatnot that it's pathetic. Eddie/JBL, Angle/Austin I and Cena/Umaga not there is nothing short of disgraceful. And lack of matches like Bret/Taker SSlam '97, Punk/Bryan MITB and Bret/Backlund SS piss me off personally too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*John Cena vs. Umaga, LMS, Rumble 07 - ****3/4*

Seriously love the hell out of this match. I hadn't watched it in forever and wanted to see if the rating held up. It absolutely did. The only fault I can find is Cena just bolting up and running the ropes like nothing is wrong with him after getting his ribs beat to shit up until that point. But apart from that this is just fantastic. John Cena gets his ass handed to him and plays the manhandled babyface to perfection meanwhile Umaga is just so dominant and teetering on the edge of craziness. Estrada being on the outside to reel him in and make him think smart for some spots is a great touch and that running jumping thing off all 3 announce tables is :mark:. Joint first when it comes to LMS for me. Just brilliant, brilliant stuff.

RIP Umaga


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> This is a WWE.com list. You were HONESTLY expecting these? :lol
> 
> But yeah, it's frustrating that they're so biased regarding the top stars and whatnot that it's pathetic. Eddie/JBL, Angle/Austin I and Cena/Umaga not there is nothing short of disgraceful. And lack of matches like Bret/Taker SSlam '97, Punk/Bryan MITB and Bret/Backlund SS piss me off personally too.


No, I wasn't expecting it but they still have no excuse to give us an inaccurate shitty list like the one they did. 

You'd think their obsession with Cena would mean that they wouldn't actually leave out any matches of his that deserve to be there but nah, even the Umaga match wasn't immune to being excluded.

Either don't make a list or make one without stupid biases holding certain classics back. Oh and how could I forget mentioning Angle vs Undertaker from Smackdown 2003? Another great match with a DQ finish that is absent.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Bret/HBK- Survivor Series 97- Eh
Miz/Morrison- RAW June 11 - don't remember this
Austin/Foley- OTE 98- ****
Cena/Batista- OTL 10 **
Eddie/JBL- GAB 04- ****
Punk/Bryan- OTL 12 ****3/4
Cena/HHH- WM 22 ****1/4
Taker/HBK- RR 98 ****
Rock/Foley- RR 99 ****1/4
Punk/Jericho- ER 12 ***1/4
Angle/Lesnar- SD Iron Man - needs a rewatch
Austin/Jericho- Vengeance 01 *
Rock/Lesnar- SD August 03 - N/A
Cena/JBL- JD 05 ****1/2
Rock/HHH/Angle- SS 00 **1/2
Lesnar/Eddie- NWO 04 ****1/2
Rock/HHH- JD 00 - needs rewatch
Austin/Angle- Unforgiven 01 ***1/2
Punk/Cena- SS 11- ****1/4
Savage/Dibiase- WM 4- never seen
Orton/Cena- BR 09 ***
Austin/Rock- BL 99 **3/4
HHH/Jericho- RAW April 00 - never seen
Angle/Lesnar- WM 19 ****
Taker/Rock/Angle- Vengeance 02 ****1/4
Cena/Mysterio- RAW July 11 - never seen, need to watch
Lesnar/Taker- NM 02 ****1/4
Cena/RVD- ONS 06 ***1/2
HBK/Mankind- Mind Games ****3/4
Flair/Savage- WM 8-
Edge/Cena- Unforgiven 06- ***3/4
HHH/Foley- RR 00 ****3/4
Bret/Owen- SS 94 - N/A
Hogan/Savage- WM 5- 
Rock/Foley- RAW January 99 ***
Cena/HBK- WM 23 ****1/2
Taker/Hardy- RAW July 02 ***
Hogan/Warrior- 
92 Rumble Match- NEED to watch
Cena/Punk- MITB 11 *****
Hogan/Andre- WM 3 DUD
Rock/Austin- WM 17 ****1/4
HBK/Bret- WM 12 *


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, there was a discussion on that WWE title match list when it came out (maybe early last week or something). Lots of things left out and the order is just shotty.

GREAT list of PG matches, ATF. Lots of enjoyable matches. Maybe some of my ratings differentiate by 1/4* or so, but all in all great work. I'm willing to go back and watch Punk/Rock from EC, but your **** seems really very generous. Seems like they tried to make up for the straight-up ending of the Rumble match, so they just overbooked the ending of the second one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well to me Rock/Punk II is everything their Rumble match should've been, but that rating is biased in my case considering what I feel for Rock nowadays. Even though he won, seeing Punk spit, slap and middle finger his face was :mark: to me - that and the match itself was alright, mixed with the great atmosphere and big feel made it a really enjoyable one to me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock winning was like the biggest redeeming factor for me with those matches.

Just rewatched Randy Orton vs Kane from Extreme Rules last year and wow, this is one fucking awesome match! Didn't recall it being this good. Just fun to watch with a hot crowd as they battle all over the arena from the crowd to the backstage (Ryder attacking Kane was hilarious and random) then back to the ring. Both truly give it their all and take some bumps. A dropkick on the concrete must hurt like hell for Orton. The FCA stipulation was used perfectly and that's what makes this so good. ★★★¾ with ease.

Seems like Orton's match this year will be against Big Show, somebody he's never faced one-on-one in a PPV so I'm excited for it. Hope the match delivers!


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Rock winning was like the biggest redeeming factor for me with those matches.
> 
> Just rewatched Randy Orton vs Kane from Extreme Rules last year and wow, this is one fucking awesome match! Didn't recall it being this good. Just fun to watch with a hot crowd as they battle all over the arena from the crowd to the backstage (Ryder attacking Kane was hilarious and random) then back to the ring. Both truly give it their all and take some bumps. A dropkick on the concrete must hurt like hell for Orton. The FCA stipulation was used perfectly and that's what makes this so good. ★★★¾ with ease.
> 
> Seems like Orton's match this year will be against Big Show, somebody he's never faced one-on-one in a PPV so I'm excited for it. Hope the match delivers!




Agreed, one of the most underrated matches of recent time IMO. Back and forth the whole time. Not many openers will be this good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How would you rank all the 2012 openers on PPV? (Not counting the pre-show matches)
To me, it would be something like this:

1 - WWE Title Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber - ****
2 - Jericho/Ziggler, SummerSlam - ***3/4
3 - WHC Title Contract Money In The Bank, Money In The Bank - ***3/4
4 - Sheamus/Ziggler, No Way Out - ***3/4
5 - Orton/Kane, Extreme Rules - ***1/2
6 - Team Brodus/Team Tensai, Survivor Series - ***1/2
7 - Orton/ADR, Hell In A Cell - ***
8 - Car Stereo/Rhodes Scholars, TLC - ***
9 - Bryan/Show/Henry, Royal Rumble - ***
10 - Miz/Rey/Cody/Cara, Night Of Champions - **3/4
11 - People Power Battle Royal, Over The Limit - **1/2
12 - Bryan/Sheamus, WrestleMania - DUD

Bar the WM disaster, 2012 was actually very fucking good for PPV openers.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> How would you rank all the 2012 openers on PPV? (Not counting the pre-show matches)
> To me, it would be something like this:
> 
> 1 - WWE Title Elimination Chamber, Elimination Chamber - ****
> ...




Absolutely featured some good ones. Not a fan of all though. I'll do the 6 I really like.

1. Jericho/Ziggler ****

2. Ziggler/Sheamus ***3/4

3. Orton/Kane ***3/4

4. Smackdown MITB ***1/2

5. Raw chamber ***1/2

6. Orton/Del Rio ***1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Royal Rumble - ★★★
Elimination Chamber - ★★¾
Wrestlemania - FUCK YOU
Extreme Rules - ★★★¾
Over the Limit - don't remember
No Way Out - ★★★¼
MITB - ★★½
SummerSlam - ★★★½
Night of Champions - ★★
HIAC - ★★★¼
Survivor Series - Didn't watch
TLC - Didn't watch


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spoiler: ha



50. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997 - ★★★★
49. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Monday Night Raw (Jan. 4, 2011) - ★★★¾
48. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, Over the Edge 1998 - ★★★★½
47. Superstar Billy Graham vs. Bob Backlund (Feb. 20, 1978) - N/A
46. John Cena vs. Batista, Over the Limit 2010 - ★★½
45. Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Great American Bash 2004 - ★★★½
44. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Over the Limit 2012 - ★★★★¾
43. Bruno Sammartino vs. Ivan Koloff (Jan. 18, 1971) - ★★
42. John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22 - ★★★¾
41. Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998 - ★★★★¼
40. Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999 - ★★★★½
39. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2012 - ★★★★½
38. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, SmackDown (Sept. 16, 2003) - ★★★★½
37. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001 - ★★★½
36. The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002 - ★★★★
35. Superstar Billy Graham vs. Dusty Rhodes (Oct. 24, 1977) - N/A
34. John Cena vs. JBL, Judgement Day 2005 - ★★★★½
33. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. Triple H, SummerSlam 2000 - ★★½
32. Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004 - ★★★★¾
31. Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, Saturday Night's Main Event (Jan. 3, 1987) - ★★★
30. The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgement Day 2000 - ★★★★¼
29. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001 - ★★★★
28. CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011 - ★★★★½
27. Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4 - ★★¾
26. Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009 - ★★★¾
25. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Backlash 1999 - ★★★★
24. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho, Monday Night Raw (April 17, 2000) - ★★★★
23. Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania 19 - ★★★★¼
22. Bruno Sammartino vs. Killer Kowalski (April 29, 1974) - N/A
21. Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, Vengeance 2002 - ★★★★½
20. Rey Mysterio vs. John Cena, Monday Night Raw (July 25, 2011) - ★★★¾
19. Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker, No Mercy 2002 - ★★★★½
18. Iron Sheik vs. Hulk Hogan (Jan. 23, 1984) - ★¾
17. John Cena vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2006 - ★★★★
16. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, In Your House (Sept. 22, 1996) - ★★★★¾
15. Ric Flair vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, WrestleMania 8 - ★★★★½
14. Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006 - ★★★¾
13. Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000 - ★★★★★
12. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, SummerSlam 1994 - ★★★★½
11. Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5 - ★★★¾
10. The Rock vs. Mankind, Monday Night Raw (Jan. 4, 1999) - ★★★★
9. John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23 - ★★★★
8. Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy, Monday Night Raw (July 1, 2002) - ★★★★¼
7. Bret Hart vs. 1-2-3 Kid, Monday Night Raw (July 11, 1994) - ★★★★½
6. Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6 - ★★★★
5. Royal Rumble match in 1992 - ★★★★¾
4. John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money in the Bank 2011 - ★★★★★
3. Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, WrestleMania 3 - ★
2. The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, WrestleMania 17 - ★★★★½ (dropped from a 5 on rewatch)
1. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 12 - *LOLWTF*



30 Notable Omissions:



Spoiler: lol



Bret Hart vs. Undertaker, Summerslam 1997 - ★★★★½
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog, IYH 5 - ★★★★½
The Rock vs. Chris Benoit, Fully Loaded 2000 - ★★★★¼
The Rock vs. Triple H, Backlash 2000 - ★★★★½
CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night of Champions 2012 - ★★★★¼
Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle, Royal Rumble 2003 - ★★★★★
John Cena vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007 - ★★★★½
Randy Orton vs. Triple H, No Mercy 2007 - ★★★★¼
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker, One Night Only 1997 - ★★★★½
Chris Benoit vs. Brock Lesnar, Smackdown 2003 - ★★★★¼
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012 - ★★★★¼
Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004 - ★★★★½
Bret Hart vs. Kevin Nash, Survivor Series 1995 - ★★★★½
Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Survivor Series 2007 - ★★★★¼
Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle, Smackdown 2003 - ★★★★½
Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin, Summerslam 2001 - ★★★★½
John Cena vs. Triple H, Night of Champions 2008 - ★★★★¼
Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, No Mercy 2008 - ★★★★½
Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit, Smackdown 2001 - ★★★★¾
Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk, Wrestlemania 28 - ★★★★¼
Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera, 1980 - ★★★★½
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000 - ★★★★½
CM Punk vs. Mark Henry, RAW 2012 - ★★★★¼
Undertaker vs. Steve Austin, Fully Loaded 1999 - ★★★★¼
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, IYH - ★★★★½
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992 - ★★★★¼
Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle, Summerslam 2003 - ★★★★½
CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011 - ★★★★¼
John Cena vs. Edge vs. Triple H, Backlash 2006 - ★★★★¼
Edge vs. Ric Flair, RAW 2006 - ★★★★¼


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ok so I just decided to give brock/cena ex 12 another watch since i haven't been its biggest supporter. I have given it like 3 chances and it never really panned out.I saw a clip of Brock's return and said to myself "Hell let me give it another chance " and boy was I wrong. The thing is you have to look at it with a different perspective, the psychology, selling, brutality is something I haven't seen In a match in a very long time. Funny enough after bashing it after this recent watch is a new inductee to my *****list lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

While the Benoit matches are notable omissions for sure, it's quite obvious why they aren't there. The WWE clearly doesn't want to "hang" them up with the other matches (sorry for the crude humor but just had to do it). Although the other ones clearly don't have excuse for not being there other than pure bias.

Can anyone tell me some forgotten ****+ gem that I might not have in my PG Era list?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

1 - WWE Title Elimination Chamber ***
2 - Jericho/Ziggler, SummerSlam - ***1/2
3 - WHC Title Contract Money In The Bank, Money In The Bank - **
4 - Sheamus/Ziggler, No Way Out - ***3/4
5 - Orton/Kane, Extreme Rules - ***1/2
6 - Team Brodus/Team Tensai, Survivor Series - **
7 - Orton/ADR, Hell In A Cell - **1/2
8 - Car Stereo/Rhodes Scholars, TLC - **
9 - Bryan/Show/Henry, Royal Rumble - ***
10 - Miz/Rey/Cody/Cara, Night Of Champions - *
11 - People Power Battle Royal, Over The Limit - **1/2
12 - Bryan/Sheamus, WrestleMania - DUD


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Forgotten gems:

Punk/Cena RAW August 2011
Punk/Henry 2012 series
Punk/Mysterio Smackdown February 2010
John Morrison/Jeff Hardy Smackdown 2009
Triple H/John Cena RAW 2009 (They had two really good matches)
RAW Elimination Chamber 2011
Randy Orton/Christian Cage Match 2011
Mark Henry/Daniel Bryan Cage Match 2011


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Rock winning was like the biggest redeeming factor for me with those matches.
> 
> Just rewatched Randy Orton vs Kane from Extreme Rules last year and wow, this is one fucking awesome match! Didn't recall it being this good. Just fun to watch with a hot crowd as they battle all over the arena from the crowd to the backstage (Ryder attacking Kane was hilarious and random) then back to the ring. Both truly give it their all and take some bumps. A dropkick on the concrete must hurt like hell for Orton. The FCA stipulation was used perfectly and that's what makes this so good. ★★★¾ with ease.
> 
> Seems like Orton's match this year will be against Big Show, somebody he's never faced one-on-one in a PPV so I'm excited for it. Hope the match delivers!


Their Wrestlemania match was good too, and if I recall correctly they had a solid match on Smackdown as well. I dug the Kane/Orton series quite a bit. Thought Kane was really on top of his game as a singles worker around that time. 

Orton/Show could be good depending on the stip. Not expecting anything great though.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Their Wrestlemania match was good too, and if I recall correctly they had a solid match on Smackdown as well. I dug the Kane/Orton series quite a bit. Thought Kane was really on top of his game as a singles worker around that time.
> 
> Orton/Show could be good depending on the stip. Not expecting anything great though.




DAT Chokeslam to end they're WM match........ :MARK


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I generally wouldn't be surprised to see Orton/Show be MOTN. People were doubting Show/Sheamus from HIAC just as much as they are this, and look how that turned out. It all depends if Randy decides to turn up and not phone it in, I have no doubts Big Show will play his role to perfection as he has done for the eight months.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I generally wouldn't be surprised to see Orton/Show be MOTN. People were doubting Show/Sheamus from HIAC just as much as they are this, and look how that turned out. It all depends if Randy decides to turn up and not phone it in, I have no doubts Big Show will play his role to perfection as he has done for the eight months.


Sheamus >>>>>>>> Orton

I would be genuinely surprised if it was MOTN.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I generally wouldn't be surprised to see Orton/Show be MOTN. People were doubting Show/Sheamus from HIAC just as much as they are this, and look how that turned out. It all depends if Randy decides to turn up and not phone it in, I have no doubts Big Show will play his role to perfection as he has done for the eight months.


I dont know if it can beat Shield's match or the triple threat, for the WHC.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> While the Benoit matches are notable omissions for sure, it's quite obvious why they aren't there. The WWE clearly doesn't want to "hang" them up with the other matches (sorry for the crude humor but just had to do it). Although the other ones clearly don't have excuse for not being there other than pure bias.


They can still take their excuses and shove them up real nice! 



Saint Dick said:


> Their Wrestlemania match was good too, and if I recall correctly they had a solid match on Smackdown as well. I dug the Kane/Orton series quite a bit. Thought Kane was really on top of his game as a singles worker around that time.
> 
> Orton/Show could be good depending on the stip. Not expecting anything great though.


Yeah.

Orton/Show can be a good regular match too. Just need to present Orton as a bit more desperate to make it work. Have Show destroy him on TV every week so he finally overcomes the monster on PPV and hopefully move onto a title program or something.



FluxCapacitor said:


> I generally wouldn't be surprised to see Orton/Show be MOTN. People were doubting Show/Sheamus from HIAC just as much as they are this, and look how that turned out. It all depends if Randy decides to turn up and not phone it in, I have no doubts Big Show will play his role to perfection as he has done for the eight months.


Orton seems to always bring it when it's on PPV. It's usually TV matches where he has to face the same opponent during which you see him half-ass it. People can criticize his performances all they want but the evidence is there as he's not had a PPV match throughout his "off days" that was outright bad. (I'm talking about the past 15 or so months)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> DAT Chokeslam to end they're WM match........ :MARK


 Great way to end the match. The only slight criticism is that Orton didn't really jump high when Kane chokeslammed him. Matt Hardy did that very well when the same top rope chokeslam was executed back in Summerslam 2004. Like I said, it's a very small criticism and it doesn't affect my take on the match at all. 

Kane was one of the better opponents for Orton in 2012. Their feud was much better and more personal (Kane attacking Orton's dad and Orton kidnapping Bearer) than the feuds with Zigger/Del Rio, that's for sure. It is weird that the feud started over a handshake but I guess that fitted Kane's resurrected monster role back then.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Orton would struggle to make my current top 15 WWE workers, and that's not even including part-timers like Taker and Lesnar.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbh, almost all of Orton's crappy matches have been down to him being in control for the majority with his bland, boring and repetitive offense. If he is being beaten on for the majority of the match (which he should, by Big Show) only to turn it around with a good looking transition spot, followed by his offense condensed in to a couple of minutes leading in to the finish, then I definitely think it can work. Big Show's beat downs look convincing, Orton bumps and sells well to get the crowd emotionall invested followed by a fast, exciting finishing stretch to keep the crowd on their feet (ala Sheamus/Show at HIAC), ending the match at it's highest point, will create a good match.

I say that Orton/Show could be a MOTN if it goes something like that, if not and they allow Orton to take control for too long, then it will be shite. Hopefully they play it out correctly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Sheamus >>>>>>>> Orton
> 
> I would be genuinely surprised if it was MOTN.


Yeah, what this guy said.

Orton mechanically is a good seller. He knows how to use an injury to drive a match but he's definitely a very conservative and timid bumper due to his health concerns. Everything is so languid and plodding when Orton is bumping and selling and there never feels like there's a sense of urgency to everything. Sheamus will fly around the ring when eating strikes and just has a way to convey urgency and up the pace in a way Orton currently seems incapable of doing. Doesn't help that Orton's comebacks feel typically stale and lacking in struggle or creativity.

I can see it being solid but unspectacular tbh. Show is comfortable in his groove and will give a generally assured performance on his end. I'm just unconvinced Orton has the bumping and sympathetic selling ability to pull the crowd into the match as well as doubting he could string an energetic and well fought for comeback.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Tbh, almost all of Orton's crappy matches have been down to him being in control for the majority with his bland, boring and repetitive offense. If he is being beaten on for the majority of the match (which he should, by Big Show) only to turn it around with a good looking transition spot, followed by his offense condensed in to a couple of minutes leading in to the finish, then I definitely think it can work. Big Show's beat downs look convincing, Orton bumps and sells well to get the crowd emotionall invested followed by a fast, exciting finishing stretch to keep the crowd on their feet (ala Sheamus/Show at HIAC), ending the match at it's highest point, will create a good match.
> 
> I say that Orton/Show could be a MOTN if it goes something like that, if not and they allow Orton to take control for too long, then it will be shite. Hopefully they play it out correctly.


Orton's a decent bumper and seller, good when he really feels like it, but I can't remember the last time he put in a compelling babyface performance drawing sympathy with his selling. Not a fan of his comebacks in most cases either. Granted Big Show should be the driving force in the match it has potential to be very good if Orton brings his A game but I just don't think Randy has the tools to work a great match from the bottom like Sheamus, Cena and Bryan do.

EDIT: WOOLCOCK basically took the words out of my mouth.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I apologise for going off-topic here;

@Woolcock, what are your thoughts on the Magnum/Olympia tag matches in Mid-South? Most notably against the Midnights & Reed/Neidhart cage? And, to throw in some more, Midnights up against Dundee & Porkchop?


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Ric Flair's promo after his rumble win *****/*****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The only potentially good thing about Orton in his match with Show is that he won't be able to do his typical comeback since he can't knock Show down with those robotic clotheslines over and over again or powerslam him. But we'll still no doubt see some retarded fucking set up to that hanging DDT .

Show mauling Orton most of the match should be somewhat fun though. Expecting it to be a lesser version of Orton/Henry from 2011... though I'm not so high on those tbh. Guess it all depends now on if they get a stipulation or not. Likely one of the 50 variations of a street fight, which could be entertaining.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Ratings for some Smackdown 2003 tag gems:*

Brock Lesnar & Tajiri vs Edge & Rey Mysterio: *****

Chris Benoit & Edge vs Team Angle: ****1/2 *

Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs John Cena & A-Train: ***1/4 *


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah, what this guy said.
> 
> Orton mechanically is a good seller. He knows how to use an injury to drive a match but he's definitely a very conservative and timid bumper due to his health concerns. Everything is so languid and plodding when Orton is bumping and selling and there never feels like there's a sense of urgency to everything. Sheamus will fly around the ring when eating strikes and just has a way to convey urgency and up the pace in a way Orton currently seems incapable of doing. Doesn't help that Orton's comebacks feel typically stale and lacking in struggle or creativity.
> 
> I can see it being solid but unspectacular tbh. Show is comfortable in his groove and will give a generally assured performance on his end. I'm just unconvinced Orton has the bumping and sympathetic selling ability to pull the crowd into the match as well as doubting he could string an energetic and well fought for comeback.


Orton has proven himself to be a great bumper in the past. It's just that his body is wearing out and as he's getting older, he wants to have a complete career instead of working too fast and being forced into early retirement. Hell, I heard he's had 6-7 concussion already which is scary.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus/Henry is where it's at. Give them 13-15 minutes and that's your MOTN right there barring something awesome from The Shield and Lesnar/H.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I apologise for going off-topic here;
> 
> @Woolcock, what are your thoughts on the Magnum/Olympia tag matches in Mid-South? Most notably against the Midnights & Reed/Neidhart cage? And, to throw in some more, Midnights up against Dundee & Porkchop?


Haven't seen either mate. Most of Mid South I've watched has been individual matches and megaupload crashing really lost a lot of links to matches through guys like Seabs & Cal. Hopefully will be in possession of the DVDVR Mid South comp soon enough though so will make a note to get back to you with my thoughts.

I can say though that Olympia/Chavo Guerrero (Chavo Classic in WWE) 6/24/83 is an outstanding match and top notch heel performance from Olympia. Chavo is also great as the pissed off and bloodthirsty babyface and there's this simple but brilliant spot where Chavo drags Olympia around the ring by hooking the holes in his mask with his fingers to stop him escaping. Nifty visual that I can't recall ever seeing in another match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Haven't seen either mate. Most of Mid South I've watched has been individual matches and megaupload crashing really lost a lot of links to matches through guys like Seabs & Cal. Hopefully will be in possession of the DVDVR Mid South comp soon enough though so will make a note to get back to you with my thoughts.
> 
> I can say though that Olympia/Chavo Guerrero (Chavo Classic in WWE) 6/24/83 is an outstanding match and top notch heel performance from Olympia. Chavo is also great as the pissed off and bloodthirsty babyface and there's this simple but brilliant spot where Chavo drags Olympia around the ring by hooking the holes in his mask with his fingers to stop him escaping. Nifty visual that I can't recall ever seeing in another match.


Ah. I did make a slight typo in the name of the tag with Magnum. It's Mr Wrestling 2, not Olympia. Maybe they are the same person, I didn't pay attention to who was under the mask. Should urge you into them regardless. Both are fantastic matches, especially the cage. Every performance from each man, could be graded A. Will need to rewatch them to properly rate them, but must watch from Mid-South, I'd say.

I wasn't planning to watch Olympia/Chavo when running through the match listings, but I saw overwhelming praise for it, including yours now. Will get a watch alongside Midnights/Dundee&Porkchop.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton has proven himself to be a great bumper in the past. It's just that his body is wearing out and as he's getting older, he wants to have a complete career instead of working too fast and being forced into early retirement. Hell, I heard he's had 6-7 concussion already which is scary.


I'm aware of that, which is why I mentioned Orton's precarious health as being a primary motivator for his rigid and conservative bumping. I just think similarly to HHH he struggles to make himself someone who can convey a truly vulnerable and sympathetic character to the fans. He's the guy who should be kicking ass and hurting opponents, rather than the one selling for the duration and it shows since both are certainly capable of mechanically selling and bumping but just struggle to have that connection to the fans in a way Cena, Mysterio, Bryan or co have when working underneath. Even someone like Punk who isn't necessarily the most sympathetic babyface on the roster knows how to use his selling ability to work as a good underdog working from the bottom. Though in Punk's case its more about him being similar to Christian in terms of finding creative ways to highlight his injury: such as using his right arm for the running bulldog in a match when his left arm has been torn apart by his opponent (think this was vs Bryan but not 100% sure on that one).



Saint Dick said:


> Sheamus/Henry is where it's at. Give them 13-15 minutes and that's your MOTN right there barring something awesome from The Shield and Lesnar/H.


Yeah I'm stoked for Sheamus/Henry. Henry's charismatic and knows how to get the most out of very little when working on top and in Sheamus he's got a nutty bumper who'll fly around the ring to make everything Henry does look great and in the process build his comeback well. Henry is better than Show at working on top for me, at least in terms of bringing character work and mannerisms into the match and given how well Sheamus & Show worked again on this past Smackdown I can't envisage Sheamus/Henry not delivering. Only hinderance would be if they plan to run a rematch and so work it like MITB '11 where its short and sweet and save the longer match for the May or June PPV.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thinking its gonna be a 2 match show with henry/sheamus and hell no/shield. The three way may be ok and Punk's.....oh wait nvm. Has Cena injury been confirmed ?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Ah. I did make a slight typo in the name of the tag with Magnum. It's Mr Wrestling 2, not Olympia. Maybe they are the same person, I didn't pay attention to who was under the mask. Should urge you into them regardless. Both are fantastic matches, especially the cage. Every performance from each man, could be graded A. Will need to rewatch them to properly rate them, but must watch from Mid-South, I'd say.
> 
> I wasn't planning to watch Olympia/Chavo when running through the match listings, but I saw overwhelming praise for it, including yours now. Will get a watch alongside Midnights/Dundee&Porkchop.


Had a quick gander at the top 30 ballot for Mid South that was run by the DVDVR guys and that match came in at #9. So consider it definitely on my radar to watch in the near future.

Olympia/Chavo is stellar. Olympia eats everything fluidly and its worked very well in giving the heel very little in a way that makes the babyface look menacing and on top of his game whilst giving the heel a rub by taking the beating and still finding ways to come back and try and regain control of the match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do wonder what Raw confrontations Brock/Trips/Heyman will have in the ER build, same old shit we just fucking had with the Mania build probably now Trips has accepted the challenge,

Just let Brock destroy Trips FFS


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> I do wonder what Raw confrontations Brock/Trips/Heyman will have in the ER build, same old shit we just fucking had with the Mania build probably now Trips has accepted the challenge,
> 
> Just let Brock destroy Trips FFS


 He probably will. Triple H will challenge Lesnar again the night after ER and the feud will continue till WM 50 but this time, it will be very personal.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Had a quick gander at the top 30 ballot for Mid South that was run by the DVDVR guys and that match came in at #9. So consider it definitely on my radar to watch in the near future.
> 
> Olympia/Chavo is stellar. Olympia eats everything fluidly and its worked very well in giving the heel very little in a way that makes the babyface look menacing and on top of his game whilst giving the heel a rub by taking the beating and still finding ways to come back and try and regain control of the match.


Managed to find that list, seeing Murdoch/Windham, DiBiase/Flair & DiBiase/Magnum high has got me excited. Very excited. Might have to run through this set very quickly. I noticed Dr Death, and having seen a few of his '80s matches thus far, I can't say I am exactly interested in watching him. Granted, that match with Windham at Starrcade has soured him badly for me, and has come across as very bland in '88 NWA. Is he putting in a heel performance against Gordy?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Pretty sure he's face in that match mate. Doesn't look like he's heel in the match judging by the write ups and brief overview of the match. Based on what I saw it looks a really good match. Two big heavyweights trading bombs and lumping the shit out of each other and some apparently crazy bumps after one of the ropes breaks during the match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching SD now. Unfortunately Swagger/Del Rio no DQ went away from the limb work that made their match the week before so good. Much more of a spotfest but I still had fun with it. Some of the counters and sequences they've been working together look sweet as hell. Add Ziggler's bumping and athleticism to the mix and the triple threat at Extreme Rules has potential. That said, still keeping my expectations for it quite low since it's a WWE three way which usually means spot after spot and a shitty formula.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Pretty sure he's face in that match mate. Doesn't look like he's heel in the match judging by the write ups and brief overview of the match. Based on what I saw it looks a really good match. Two big heavyweights trading bombs and lumping the shit out of each other and some apparently crazy bumps after one of the ropes breaks during the match.


Should definately dig it then. I suppose I shouldn't really let a handful of poor matches in one fed totally sour a body of work (looking at Duggan specifically here). Did that same 'group/board' make a best of Memphis list similiar to the Mid-South one? Very curious for that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah they've done Memphis, Mid South, Texas, All Japan, New Japan & Other Japan from the 80s.

Memphis top 30:

1. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (Loser Leaves Town) 6/6/83
2. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) 12/30/85
3. Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (No DQ) 3/23/81
4. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Barbed Wire Match) 3/29/82
5. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (No DQ) 3/22/82
6. Jerry Lawler vs. Austin Idol (Hair vs. Hair, Steel Cage Match) 4/27/87
7. Jerry Lawler vs. Bill Dundee (No DQ, Loser Leaves Town) 7/14/86
8. Koko Ware vs. Ric Flair 11/18/85
9. Jerry Lawler vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (Texas Death) 9/7/86
10. Jerry Lawler vs. Randy Savage (Loser Leaves Town) 6/3/85

11. Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (Empty Arena) 4/6/81
12. Jerry Lawler & Dutch Mantel vs. Bill Dundee & Buddy Landel 3/10/86
13. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel (No DQ) 11/8/82
14. Tommy Rich & Eddie Gilbert vs. Pretty Young Things (Falls Count Anywhere) 5/18/84
15. Jerry Lawler vs. Ric Flair 8/14/82
16. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel 10/18/82
17. Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Loser Leaves Town) 3/27/82
18. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Texas Death Match) 3/23/87
19. Jerry Lawler & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Austin Idol & Tommy Rich (Double Jeopardy Match) 3/16/87
20. Fabulous Ones vs. The Moondogs (Stretcher Match) 5/2/83

21. Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (Title vs. Retirement) 5/9/88
22. Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar vs. Dutch Mantell & King Cobra 7/19/82
23. Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel 10/25/82
24. Jerry Lawler vs. Rick Martel (Nashville) 10/12/85
25. Ricky Morton & Eddie Gilbert vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) 9/4/81
26. Bill Dundee vs. Sweet Brown Sugar (2/3 falls, Scaffold Match) 6/21/82
27. Ronnie Garvin vs. Randy Savage (Cage Match) ICW 1982/83
28. Jerry Lawler & Randy Savage vs. King Kong Bundy & Rick Rude 9/10/84
29. Fabulous Ones vs. The Sheepherders (Cage Match) 8/6/85
30. Jerry Lawler vs. Crusher Blackwell 5/4/81


Three guesses for who the worker of the set is commonly thought of.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Layla v Aksana was actually... good? Well for a WWE divas match it was. Aksana went after Layla's hand/fingers/arm a la William Regal/Daniel Bryan and Layla's pinning combination for the finish looked great. They even bumped a bit too. (Y) Good might be pushing it but it was certainly passable.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Glad to see Lawler/Funk is high, my opinions on it act like the tide though. My first viewing, it felt bland. The next day, flashbacks on it put it in a positive light. Later on, didn't remember it too fondly. Watched it again, enjoyed it far more. And right now, I can't really remember outstanding from it, except that it was a absolute bloody brawl. Memphis has been slightly tricky to get through. Pure ISO files, instead of being seperated like Mid-South. But, those Lawler/Dundee matches need some seeing to very soon.

Fuck it, it's on my viewing list tomorrow.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lawler/Funk is a personal favourite of mine ever since I first layed eyes upon it. Mesmerising bloody brawl with both men throwing amazing punches, Funk adding all the intricate little touches in his theatrical selling to put over the war and some great storyline callbacks with Funk targeting the leg Lawler broke which caused Jimmy Hart to turn on him and set about the Lawler/Hart feud. Don't even mind the abrupt finish since it works in the context of the bloody fight they were having and sees Lawler mercilessly batter and abuse Funk to the point of no return which then sets about Funk's final challenge to Lawler in the form of an Empty Arena Match which still remains one of the greatest segments in pro wrestling history.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus/Show was really good. Again. Enjoying this Smackdown so far and Taker/Ambrose still to come.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Gotten one hour through No Mercy 2006 now. LOL @ Regal running around backstage naked. And MVP's debut was hilarious. The way he gets heat with such ease. Taker/Kennedy is now next, hope it's good.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Interested to hear your views on Regal/Benoit, C2D.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Interested to hear your views on Regal/Benoit, C2D.


Already seen it a long time ago and it was awesome. I'll refresh my memories now on it, though. But the review wont be up until tomorrow because I'm off to sleep in a few minutes. Will finish Taker/Kennedy now and save the rest for tomorrow.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> I can't remember the last time he put in a compelling babyface performance drawing sympathy with his selling.


The Henry title win. It was a 'nuh-duh' Henry Rules match, but that was a pretty damn good Orton showing. I'd say that's maybe a top 5 Orton match tbh.


The Mid-South Christmas cage match (Magnum/II v. Reed/Neidhart) is really, really great.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I was just thinking about the short amount of time that Kaval spent in the WWE. If I'm not mistaken, he had a match with Dolph Ziggler at a PPV for the IC title. Anyone know if that's worth going back to?

I just watched a Low Ki vs. Kenta match from 2005 and it's probably the most intense match I've ever seen. 30 minutes of nonstop stiff hits and whatnot. Amazing. I couldn't find it anywhere online and ended up getting the DVD (final Battle 2005) and it turned out to be a very fun show. What a shame that the match isn't available for most (to my knowledge). 

Anyways, it would've been interesting to me to see what direction they would've gone with Kaval. I'd expect him to be jobbing actually, but I'm still curious since he won NXT.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Taker/Ambrose was pretty cool. Wish it could've gone longer and given Ambrose more of a rub but good stuff nevertheless. 



Yeah1993 said:


> The Henry title win. It was a 'nuh-duh' Henry Rules match, but that was a pretty damn good Orton showing. I'd say that's maybe a top 5 Orton match tbh.


(Y)


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Ziggler/Kaval was at Survivor Series 2010 and I have it **3/4. I think I actually have it lower than most so you should check it out.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thoughts on the eddie/kurt series. Ratings ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Going to watch the WM 20 and Summerslam matches now, as I haven't seen them. Wasn't watching during that time and am yet to catch up on everything I missed.

Anything else between those two guys worth watching?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i heard someone on heard talking about the series and they mentioned the smackdown 04 before wm 20 not sure. I swear when Im mostly on here its dead but when im off and come back the discussions go on for 5 pgs


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NO! said:


> I was just thinking about the short amount of time that Kaval spent in the WWE. If I'm not mistaken, he had a match with Dolph Ziggler at a PPV for the IC title. Anyone know if that's worth going back to?
> 
> I just watched a Low Ki vs. Kenta match from 2005 and it's probably the most intense match I've ever seen. 30 minutes of nonstop stiff hits and whatnot. Amazing. I couldn't find it anywhere online and ended up getting the DVD (final Battle 2005) and it turned out to be a very fun show. What a shame that the match isn't available for most (to my knowledge).
> 
> Anyways, it would've been interesting to me to see what direction they would've gone with Kaval. I'd expect him to be jobbing actually, but I'm still curious since he won NXT.


It's good. Wasn't the best match on the show (Danielson vs Dibiase Jr & Sheamus vs Morrison were better) but plenty enjoyable. Ki gets time on a PPV and Dolph eats some gnarly kicks to the face. A fun way to kill 10 minutes. No doubt. You'd be wise to watch Ki's matches vs Swagger & McIntyre from Superstars in 2010 too. Those were his best matches during his time with the company.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

STAY AWAY FROM THE SUMMERSLAM MATCH.

GIMME A FUCKIN' MIC.

(Watches more Scott Steiner promos & matches)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ ok then wm 20 it is


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Angle/Eddie had matches at WM > SS > 8/26/04 (SD) > 9/2/04 (SD I believe) > 9/9/04 (SD again)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You might be the only guy who doesn't put the SummerSlam match at the very bottom.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, I watched Summerslam first, now on to Mania 20. I'll try to forget the Summerslam encounter. Just didn't enjoy that.

Michael Cole's jizzing himself talking about Eddie beating Brock during his WM entrance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cole was in the right there. Better than when Batista was on Smackdown and Cole got hard every time his music hit. (seriously, check that out.)

SummerSlam '04 match was frustrating. It was ugly too. All Angle wanted to do was clamp on the ankle lock and Eddie's offense almost couldn't take away from that. It's so blah.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Eddie/Kurt mania 20 ***3/4
Meh it's ok just never gets really going you know. Good wrestling but that it


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, the WM 20 match is definitely better. Teasing the German suplex from the ring apron was pretty cool. 

Kurt had a pretty nice string of matches from WM 19-20-21. Not sure about 22, when Rey won the WHC in a fairly quick match. Don't remember what he did at 18, and didn't he have Benoit at Mania 17?

Oh, and KOK. Check this STEINER interview. Best part starts about 1:18.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's quite plain for Eddie pardon the finish. Oh well. He wins; keeps championship. Moment is good enough for me.

I'm so going to steal the Yeah1993 form of watching matches recently adopted by many. I should have posted this elsewhere. Meh. Dunno who to do it with.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watched the original MITB and the WM 25 one.

MITB WM 21 ****
MITB WM 25 ***1/2

Bookmarked a shitload of WM matches for the hell of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It's quite plain for Eddie pardon the finish. Oh well. He wins; keeps championship. Moment is good enough for me.
> 
> I'm so going to steal the Yeah1993 form of watching matches recently adopted by many. I should have posted this elsewhere. Meh. Dunno who to do it with.


I'm bored as fuck, how bout this idea. I pick your wrestler, you pick mine? haha. We both do the Yeah 1993.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WM21's MITB was MOTN for me, even above Shawn/Angle which i have at ****1/4.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Haven't seen Angle/HBK, but there's mixed views on it I believe. That pretty much tells me to make my own opinion. Need a weekend where I have nothing going and I make it Wrestlemania Day.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I FORGOT TO POST YESTERDAY BUT WHO CARES: My Top 100 John Cena Bouts Ever (75-51)

**** 1/2 Matches*

51.	Vs JBL (First Blood Match ; Extreme Rules 2008)

52.	Vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 4/8/03)

53.	Vs Edge (WWE Championship - Steel Cage ; RAW 10/2/06)

54.	w/Evan Bourne Vs Sheamus/Edge (RAW 5/31/10)

55.	w/HHH Vs Rey Mysterio/Randy Orton/Kurt Angle (Saturday Night’s Main Event 2006)

56.	vs The Undertaker (Vengeance 2003)

57.	vs CM Punk (RAW 6/3/11)

58.	RAW Elimination Chamber (EC 2011)

59.	Vs JBL (WHC - Royal Rumble 2009)

60.	w/HBK Vs Rated RKO (Tag Team Championship - RAW 1/29/07)

61.	w/Sheamus/CM Punk/Evan Bourne/Kofi Kingston/Mason Ryan Vs Swagger/Ziggler/Otunga/Del Rio/Christian/Cody Rhodes (RAW 10/3/11)

62.	Vs Angle Vs HBK (WWE Championship - Taboo Tuesday 2005)

63.	w/HBK Vs Rated RKO (Tag Team Championship - RAW 2/26/07)

**** 1/4 Matches*

64.	Vs The Great Khali (WWE Championship - Judgment Day 2007)

65.	Vs CM Punk (WWE Championship - RAW 7/23/12)

66.	Vs Edge vs Big Show (WWE Championship - Wrestlemania XXV)

67.	Vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio (WWE Championship - Hell in a Cell Match ; HIAC 2011)

68.	Vs CM Punk (RAW 11/23/09)

69.	Vs Big Show vs Kane vs Chris Jericho vs Miz (Money in the Bank Ladder Match ; MITB 2012)

70.	Vs Alberto Del Rio (Falls Count Anywhere ; RAW 09/3/12)

71.	Vs CM Punk (RAW 11/12/12)

72.	w/RVD vs Shelton Benjamin/Chris Masters/HHH (RAW 5/15/06)

73.	Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 11/4/03)

74.	Vs BROCK LESNAR (WWE Championship - Backlash 2003)

75.	w/Mysterio/Steamboat/Hardy/Punk Vs Edge/Kane/Hardy/Jericho/Big Show (RAW 4/6/2009)​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm bored as fuck, how bout this idea. I pick your wrestler, you pick mine? haha. We both do the Yeah 1993.


Deal. We gots to sync up to make this work though. 

Screw it. You get a treat: Yoshihiro Tajiri.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Eddie/Kurt WM20 is great imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is there in your opinion any bad/below average match between two of your all-time favourites out there?

In my case, Taker/Austin from BL '02. These two make my Top 3 favcurites ever with HBK, they're both amazing performers, and it still shocks me how they had such a terrible, slow and boring match like that.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

BL 2002 IMO was good, much better than their 1999 crap, apart from the first blood.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Not a fan of their BL 02 match either. Trips is my all time #1, but my favourites below him vary on an almost day-to-day basis. Strangely, a lot of my favourites he hasn't had that many singles matches with - Jericho, Lesnar, Punk, Edge to name a few.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say Trips has a good amount of material vs Jericho. Much more than the others, certainly by comparison.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah he does have some top matches with him (Fully Loaded 2000 being their best), just always felt they never had that many singles programs together. Their brief feud in 2000 that I mentioned is one. Obviously the 2002 Undisputed title feud, which had an average at best match, along with a fun triple threat involving Steph on Raw. They did have some solid TV matches in 2000-2001 though - Jericho's title 'win' and a good match for the IC title in 2001. A shame they never got into a more recent feud with some PPV matches around 2008 time. Though they did have a match on Raw in that year at some point I recall.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Trips/Jericho matches were all nice, bar the dissapointment that was WM 18. The Raw 2000 WWF Title, Fully Loaded and Judgment Day matches were the best ones I'd say.

Another match between two of my favourites that sucked ass was Jericho/JBL RR. Good storytelling, HORRIBLE wrestling.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh of course, completely forgot the Judgment Day 02 HIAC. Duh.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Did they ever say why JBL attacked Jericho during his title match?

That feud sucked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love Austin/Undertaker from BL 02 . Think its easily their best match bar JD 01. Rest of their matches are extremely forgettable or flat out bad (SS 98), except for the first blood which is good, and OTE 99 which I think gets overlooked because of what else happened that night.

HHH/Jericho matches for me only worked when Trips was the heel and Jericho the face. Their 02 matches were awful. WM is shite, and the HIAC is a mess. Think they had a TV match as well at some point on SD? Don't remember that being good either. Oh and the triple threat/handicap shite with Stephanie after WM too. Fuck that bollacks.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ever Wolf said:


> Did they ever say why JBL attacked Jericho during his title match?
> 
> That feud sucked.


Didn't Jericho throw Orton into JBL at the announcers table or something similar?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Didn't Jericho throw Orton into JBL at the announcers table or something similar?


Yeah some shite like that. Maybe the other way around and JBL blamed Jericho for colliding with him. Shit feud, shit match. Did they ever have a blowoff match? Or was the EC match the closest they got?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

RR 2008 as whole was great. Flair had a nice opener with MVP, JBL and Jericho had a good story driven match (reminded me of Show/Trips NYR 2006), Rey and Edge had a fabulous match consisting of high flyer maneuvers and strong psychology, Orton (back when he gave a shit) had an amazing match with Hardy, as always his babyface performances were well executed and the finish that was performed, puts Benoit/Orton's to shame. The Rumble was solid as fuck too, the flow was calm and more methodical than usual, oh and Cena's return makes me :mark: always. 

TOP 10 WWE PPV EVER, IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not going to sleep anytime soon. Not to say JE187 doesn't still have dibs, but for more of a mini project atm, someone give me a wrestler or match to watch right now. idk who, what, when, where or, why. Anything is open.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

How about some Billy Kidman WWE matches? Yeah, a bit of a curveball.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Fuck it, i've got a 2006 pack and all the PPV's now.

LON-DRICK project coming up :mark:

& Hayley; Punks' 2011 is always a good shout. Trips' 2006+


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Yeah some shite like that. Maybe the other way around and JBL blamed Jericho for colliding with him. Shit feud, shit match. Did they ever have a blowoff match? Or was the EC match the closest they got?


on RAW like right before NWO. Good match too, iirc.



GOATAntics said:


> RR 2008 as whole was great. Flair had a nice opener with MVP, *JBL and Jericho had a good story driven match (reminded me of Show/Trips NYR 2006)*, Rey and Edge had a fabulous match consisting of high flyer maneuvers and strong psychology, Orton (back when he gave a shit) had an amazing match with Hardy, as always his babyface performances were well executed and the finish that was performed, puts Benoit/Orton's to shame. The Rumble was solid as fuck too, the flow was calm and more methodical than usual, oh and Cena's return makes me mark always.
> 
> TOP 10 WWE PPV EVER, IMO.


:cornette


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Triple H/Big Show may be one of the most underrated matches i've ever seen. I love it. May watch that before Londrick matches.

On last watch it was ****3/4*

JBL/Jericho on the other hand; ****


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH/Show is awesome. HHH at his evil best, and gotta be one of Show's best babyface performances. I might give it a watch too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> on RAW like right before NWO. Good match too, iirc.
> 
> 
> 
> :cornette


KING OF THE THREAD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> How about some Billy Kidman WWE matches? Yeah, a bit of a curveball.


Done. VELOCITY MATCHES



Ever Wolf said:


> Fuck it, i've got a 2006 pack and all the PPV's now.
> 
> LON-DRICK project coming up :mark:
> 
> & Hayley; Punks' 2011 is always a good shout. Trips' 2006+


I can try with Punk's 2011 goodness sometime this week. I got all of it on a mess of DVDs so I'll be better suited for that when I'm not in such a lazy position to be popping DVDs in and out. Falls count anywhere vs Mysterio & Del Rio was brought up a few days ago. Jonesing for a watch.



Ever Wolf said:


> Triple H/Big Show may be one of the most underrated matches i've ever seen. I love it. May watch that before Londrick matches.
> 
> On last watch it was ****3/4*
> 
> JBL/Jericho on the other hand; ****


(Y)

and JBL vs Jericho to me was like a total DUD match. I remember hating all aspects about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> KING OF THE THREAD


Fancy mod powers shows the goods.

_*crowning commences*_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't need mod powers to see that lol .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then seven years on this place and I'm still a noob to some of these functions; idk how to do it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Dammit Hayley, don't hit me. JBL/Jericho is ***3/4* for me. KOK listed Trips/Cena vs. Orton/Angle/Rey from Saturday Night's Main Event as a top 50 Cena match, I have to agree, forgotten gem.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The first return of SNME in '06 is awesome. Glad they included it in its entirety on the WM 22 DVD

Trips & Cena/Angle, Mysterio & Orton was pretty awesome
EDGE AND FOLEY SEGMENT
HBK/Shane O'Mac street fight was entertaining enough.

MICKIE TURNING ON TRISH 10/10.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Then seven years on this place and I'm still a noob to some of these functions; idk how to do it.












Just click the link on the number of replies for each thread and it brings up that screen I posted . And if you click on the number of replies link for each person on that screen it brings up all their replies in the thread and nothing else .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Fuck Shane/HBK Street Fight, *1/2 and that's at best. Apart from that one match, actually segment :lmao. SNM 2006 was probably more ENTERTAINING then WM22.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Just click the link on the number of replies for each thread and it brings up that screen I posted . And if you click on the number of replies link for each person on that screen it brings up all their replies in the thread and nothing else .


:hb :hayley3

---------

yeah, I love me some of that first of the Saturday Night's Main Event return. Fun show. That's how it should have been each time. Instead we got crap for the next few that came down the pike.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks for the shout out Cal, . However, I don't have enough money for hosting and domain in my paypal, :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Street Fight is a blast. Tables spots, coast to coasts, & screw job endings. Everything there is to love about WWE shenanigans.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> KING OF THE THREAD


There's me


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm surprised I'm that high up.  

Cody and KOK neck and neck fighting for the title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

K, Kidman matches begin now. 

vs Noble from Vengeance '02. Sheesh, have I ever seen this before? No way it'll be bad. There is no way. Right? It is Jamie 'baw gawd' Noble as the opponent.

LOLZ @ Kidman's uber generic music here.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'm surprised I'm that high up.
> 
> Cody and KOK neck and neck fighting for the title.


So i'm guessing it's you and me in a midcard feud, judging from the posting placements. .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Cruiserweight Championship - Jamie Noble(c) vs Billy Kidman ~ WWE Vengeance 2002​*
Kidman has the world's worst generic music. WCW-esque. Coupled with the irony that his music in WCW ruled the world. SID style. Oh, the match. MOVES happen to start. I liked the cruiserweight scene in WWE fine, but dammit why did the company say "GUYS, GO DO 1000 MOVES IN 6 MINUTES AND THAT'S YOUR DIVISION" It's fun, but never anything overly special thanks to the blur it can be sometimes. Noble throws Nidia into Kidman, which allows Noble to hit a sweet armbreaker ON THE FLOOR. Ok cool. rIght when I was bashing the company for cutting their psychology, Noble to the rescue to start adding some in the match. (sorry for the "psychology" mention yeah1993) arm work is getting kind of bossy. I was expecting this to be 100% offensive minded like their rematch come Survivor Series. *beware, more caps for excitement and lack of sleep* WHAT A DROPKICK BY KIDMAN. In the MOOSH (or is is mush?) as Tazz would say. Rey Mysterio Jr - JR - makes his debut on Thursday said by Mitchell Cole. Ha. Mysterio debuting. What a surreal thing to hear in 2013. This is kind of awesome actually. Rushed...yet awesome. Imagine if this had decent bits of time added inbetween the work over on the arm & Kidman coming out with bursts of offense. Yeah, not bad at all. Super spinebuster move~! Doesn't get caps b/c I'm afraid of being way, way too repetitive. SHOOTING STAR PRESS ATTEMPT!!! Missed - fuck. I'd hate to do that. What's worse, missing the SSP or a 630 senton? idk. Brock Lesnar would probably know the answer. Noble hits a Tiger Bomb out of nowhere and wins. What? K, the arm work meant nothing whatsoever for the finish. Ah dammit. Well, it was fun pardon the lack of friggin logic in the end. I need to find a match that isn't so rushed again. Being on PPV didn't help things.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

> Well, with the new DVD thread on WF (WWE one), I think I shall pass the torch to Cody, and he shall become the new King of the thread.


Totally proclaimed Cody to be the King of the thread the day I made this version of it. I AM A MAN OF MY WORD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I REMEMBER THAT DAY


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Vengeance 02 reference? :mark:

God that show is awesome. The opener's good, Jericho/Cena is good for what's worth, RVD/Lesnar is amazing, Noble/Kidman is fun, Booker/Show is fun, Tag Title match is pretty good for what it was, Taker/Angle/Rock is almost *****.

Though I HATED Jeff/Regal.
That match made me








at the sight of '02 Jeff Hardy squashing Regal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Billy Kidman vs Bobby RoodeRUDE

*WWE Velocity sometimes in 2004 b/c the WrestleMania 20 logo was shown*​

Kidman's black guy theme song at this time. I'm feeling it. Look how cool am I. BOBBY RUDE _(that's the spelling)_ HAS A PURPLE CAPE & A WEIRD BLONDE HAIR CUT. OMGGGGG WHAT A FIND! HE TWIRLED. YES. This is beyond hilarious. I can't even focus on the match. Tazz commentating this is even more surreal. Roode is so green. He couldn't even throw Kidman into the barricade well. Elbows to the back. Close-up of Roode's face - FUCKIN MUSTACHE. John Walters + fu-man chu. ohhhhhh man. Roode works the back. Taz is so interesting he isn't even talking about the match. Talking about coffee. I can't make this up. Josh Matthews is 1000x better here in 2003 - 2004 than he has ever been. Sad. I don't even know what else to say. I'm still in awe by the way Roode looks and his antics. Now Taz is talking about cheesburgers & milkshakes. That must be his diet nowadays. DOUBLE R SPINEBUSTER. Why am I only acknowledging Roode's tiny offense? Taz says something about a guy named Charlie being sweet. SSP, cut the cheese. My brain is bleeding. Next match I'll swear I'll talk about what happens with the two wrestlers. Promise.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Felt I'll start mixing up what I watch, so, Clash of Champions One alongside Halloween Havoc 1997.

Jimmy Garvin vs Mike Rotunda *
Fantastics vs Midnight Express ****1/4
Road Warriors & Dusty vs Paul Jones army *

Ultimo Dragon vs Yugi Nagata **1/2
Gedo vs Chris Jericho ***1/4

Next up, in an hour or three;

Blanchard/Anderson vs Luger/Windham, Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio, McMichael vs Wright , Disco Inferno vs Jacqueline & Ric Flair vs Curt Hennig.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

If you could only pick one series to watch over and over again, What would it be?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Felt I'll start mixing up what I watch, so, Clash of Champions One alongside Halloween Havoc 1997.
> 
> Jimmy Garvin vs Mike Rotunda *
> Fantastics vs Midnight Express ****1/4
> ...


I'd say Disco vs Jackie is much more than Mongo vs Wright. WCW even say the comment of how men can assault women in the company yet they SIGN IT - A MAN VS A WOMEN IN A WRESTLING MATCH. So, nothing happens for 9 minutes. Legit b/c it couldn't.



GOATAntics said:


> If you could only pick one series to watch over and over again, What would it be?


Regal vs Finlay, Undertaker vs Foley, Kobashi vs Misawa, Danielson vs anyone, has to be something with El Generico in there too.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> I'd say Disco vs Jackie is much more than Mongo vs Wright. WCW even say the comment of how men can assault women in the company yet they SIGN IT - A MAN VS A WOMEN IN A WRESTLING MATCH. So, nothing happens for 9 minutes. Legit b/c it couldn't.


Was thinking that, but I couldn't imagine a match where no contact happens is worse than where they attempt to wrestle.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Decided to watch that HHH/Jericho Raw match from 2008 that I mentioned earlier. Probably haven't seen it since it aired. It's short, but a pretty solid outing. Jericho has a fair few nice counters in this one and even counters HHH's facebuster, you don't see that very often. Jericho is the main star of this match, HHH doesn't really get much offense in until a nice counter into the spinebuster. HHH does keep trying to hit the Pedigree throughout, only for it to be countered every time. Unfortunately it's a shitty finish with Lance Cade of all people coming down and attacking HHH. I believe this was when Cade and Jericho had a brief alliance. Ok match, would have been better with a proper finish.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Deal. We gots to sync up to make this work though.
> 
> Screw it. You get a treat: Yoshihiro Tajiri.


Yeah, I went to sleep. 

BUT, tonight's an option too if you're on. Your wrestler is... A-Train aka Albert aka Giant Bernard aka Lord Tensai aka Tensai aka Sweet T!



Big Z said:


> KING OF THE THREAD


Lucky #7 King of the Thread! :cheer



GOATAntics said:


> Fuck Shane/HBK Street Fight, *1/2 and that's at best. Apart from that one match, actually segment :lmao. SNM 2006 was probably more ENTERTAINING then WM22.




What didn't you like about it? Love that match, believe I went as high as *** 3/4 on the last watch. Awesome superplex spot and everything else is total fun.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

GOATAntics said:


> If you could only pick one series to watch over and over again, What would it be?


rock vs. cena


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> rock vs. cena


/Thread :vince2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its said watch...........not never watch.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Its said watch...........not never watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

could watch the hbk/taker series any day of the week. If my memory serves me correctly wasnt their rumble 98 match MOTY ?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> could watch the hbk/taker series any day of the week. If my memory serves me correctly wasnt their rumble 98 match MOTY ?


It's easily a Top 5 WWF MOTYC but I would probably put Austin/Love from Over The Edge at #1 for 1998.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Agreed with THE CLIQUE; I'd have Austin/Dude OTE as WWF MOTY in 98. Then HBK/Undertaker would probably be #2, followed by Undertaker/Mankind HIAC, then Undertaker/Kane WM... and then... uhhh... doubt I could come up with anything decent to round out a top 5 :lmao. But the top four are all ****-****1/2 . And 3 of them feature Undertaker .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ok wasnt sure but still adds to my reasoning of loving that series as most do, three arguable *****, a top 5 MOTYC in the rumble, and a decent clash at ground zero. Nothing has or will ever come close to that series

EDIT: gonna give GZ a watch now


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, Austin/Dude is #1 for sure with the Taker/Mankind HIAC & Taker/HBK Casket match being pretty fudgin' close behind.

Going back and watching Triple H's entire "King of Kings" run from his return at RAW Homecoming in 2005 until the return of DX in Mid 2006, promos and all included. Forgot how intense it was when Trips turned on Flair after the Homecoming match and completely dismantled him while taunting him and making a mockery of him. 

"LOOK AT ME NATURE BOY. I AM TRIPLE H. THE GAME. THE KING OF KINGS."


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Steamboat/Flair certainly comes close . 5 matches above **** (3 at ***** imo) in the span of about 4 months in 89. Then about a million matches pre-89 and a handful in 94 that were in the **** range too. But I personally prefer the Undertaker/HBK series. 5 singles matches, all ****+ for me, with 3 at ***** and the HIAC being the GOAT match ever of all time.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah, Austin/Dude is #1 for sure with the Taker/Mankind HIAC & Taker/HBK Casket match being pretty fudgin' close behind.
> 
> Going back and watching Triple H's entire "King of Kings" run from his return at RAW Homecoming in 2005 until the return of DX in Mid 2006, promos and all included. Forgot how intense it was when Trips turned on Flair after the Homecoming match and completely dismantled him while taunting him and making a mockery of him.
> 
> "LOOK AT ME NATURE BOY. I AM TRIPLE H. THE GAME. THE KING OF KINGS."


Nice idea. And that Flair attack is awesome. Also, HHH's 'old yella' promo during that feud is fantastic. Though Flair played his part in that feud aswell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FUCK Raw Homecomming show . I wanted to see Batista, Rey Mysterio & Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero, JBL & Christian dammit!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Loved Raw Homecoming strictly for HHH's return.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Every so often I'll put the Raw Homecoming DVD in, and I get super excited when they announce Batista, Rey Mysterio & Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero, JBL & Christian... and then Bischoff I think comes out and says its not happening on his show because its SD and I get disappointed. Every. Single. Time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RAW Homecoming was probably the most hyped I ever was for an episode of RAW ever.

- Orton/Piper/Foley segment
- Hogan challenging Austin (hinting it at least)
- HHH Return (we got to see him do the Nature Boy STRUT)
- Austin stunning all four McMahon family members
- Hardy/Edge Ladder Match
- Angle/HBK Ironman Match

They REALLY fucking stacked that show.

& Yeah Bischoff turns out the lights to essentially kick off the RAW vs Smackdown feud that lasted about two months.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> If you could only pick one series to watch over and over again, What would it be?


Benoit vs Regal or Bret vs Austin. :regal :austin


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton RKOing Piper and Foley was awesome. THE RETURN OF THE LEGEND KILLER ON RAW!
Hogan's promo was good but it's a shame a match never actually happened. HOGAN VS THE RATTLESNAKE, BROTHER!
HHH returning and turning heel in an instant before throwing Naitch in the limo and saying "Limousine riding jet flying piece of crap" :lol
Plus everything else

Is the 2006 Reunion any good? It's the next show for me after No Mercy is done with and I'm excited to see Benoit on Raw again and the birth of Rated RKO. Really excited to see some of their work as a tag team against DX, Cena & HBK and whoever else they faced. Plus Orton's charisma has shined brightly in some of the segments they had. Got to see them mocking DX!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton RKOing Piper and Foley was awesome. THE RETURN OF THE LEGEND KILLER ON RAW!
> Hogan's promo was good but it's a shame a match never actually happened. HOGAN VS THE RATTLESNAKE, BROTHER!
> HHH returning and turning heel in an instant before throwing Naitch in the limo and saying "Limousine riding jet flying piece of crap" :lol
> Plus everything else
> ...


2006 Reunion? Two words for ya: Cena/Taker. It's short, but still awesome.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

@ C2D - Did you end up finishing No Mercy 06? Any differing opinions on Benoit/Regal now?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> 2006 Reunion? Two words for ya: Cena/Taker. It's short, but still awesome.


That 4 minute match? Even more of a reason to watch the show.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> @ C2D - Did you end up finishing No Mercy 06? Any differing opinions on Benoit/Regal now?


Nah, I just turned it on again. It's Chavo/Rey now which means Regal/Benoit is coming up next.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hbk/taker GZ ***1/2- fun match the interferences were annoying and a reason why we got the hiac next month, in hindsight this is what a the hIAc is a extension of just a lot better


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Agreed with THE CLIQUE; I'd have Austin/Dude OTE as WWF MOTY in 98. Then HBK/Undertaker would probably be #2, followed by Undertaker/Mankind HIAC, then Undertaker/Kane WM... and then... uhhh... doubt I could come up with anything decent to round out a top 5 :lmao. But the top four are all ****-****1/2 . And 3 of them feature Undertaker .


HHH/Rock Ladder Match at SummerSlam


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clique said:


> HHH/Rock Ladder Match at SummerSlam


:lmao

You're a funny man, Clique .

I'd probably round out my #5 with the first Austin/Dude Love match, though its a full star below their OTE match.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I have two questions...

I've downloaded the CM Punk/Samoa Joe trilogy from ROH. Which match is generally considered the best?

I want to buy a CM Punk 'Best Of' and Bryan Danielson 'Best Of' from *Platt*, does anyone have any clue what I should get?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> :lmao
> 
> You're a funny man, Clique .
> 
> I'd probably round out my #5 with the first Austin/Dude Love match, though its a full star below their OTE match.


Not high on Austin/HBK or Foley/Funk I Quit?



admiremyclone said:


> I have two questions...
> 
> I've downloaded the CM Punk/Samoa Joe trilogy from ROH. Which match is generally considered the best? *Their 2nd. Classic.*
> 
> I want to buy a CM Punk 'Best Of' and Bryan Danielson 'Best Of' from *Platt*, does anyone have any clue what I should get? *WWE stuff included, Punk. Only ROH and Indies, Danielson.*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Joe 2 from 2004 i think april
and I would go with Punks


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Not high on Austin/HBK or Foley/Funk I Quit?


Austin/HBK is pretty shit. Foley/Funk had an I Quit match? I remember them having a crazy brawl, didn't think it was I Quit. That might edge out the weaker Austin/Dude for top 5.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

agreed, other than the DX live performance and hot crowd, the match was shite, you could tell HBK could bare walk and was struggling.Their KOTR is much better


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Danielson's ROH run > Punk's career, in my opinion, in terms of classics and STARZ~. I'd definitely choose his set over Punk's, tbh. Then you've got some nice matches from Danielson in PWG and Japan (maybe). Easy answer, for me.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Danielson's ROH title run alone > Punk's career, in my opinion, in terms of classics and STARZ~. I'd definitely choose his set over Punk's, tbh.


I'm torn over which set to try first. Both guys rule.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah go with Bryan's set. Worth it for the Nigel matches alone, which are better than anything Punk ever did (and Punk has some amazing matches too of course).


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Yeah go with Bryan's set. Worth it for the Nigel matches alone, which are better than anything Punk ever did (and Punk has some amazing matches too of course).


I'll go with your recommendations and try Bryan's set first. I feel a bit bad that I've seen ZERO Punk or Bryan stuff pre-WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> I have two questions...
> 
> I've downloaded the CM Punk/Samoa Joe trilogy from ROH. Which match is generally considered the best?
> 
> I want to buy a CM Punk 'Best Of' and Bryan Danielson 'Best Of' from *Platt*, does anyone have any clue what I should get?


Punk/Joe II is best one for me 

Id definetly recommend the ROH sets for both Punk/Danielson, i have the CM Punk in ROH Set and recently ordered the Best of Danielson in ROH set from Platt myself (Y)

Looking to get the Punk in IWA Set soon too and the Danielson In Japan set.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^ So much Indy stuff to choose from. The mind boggles.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK's entrance @ WM14 adds **1/4 to the match.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just watched Taker/Mankind HIAC on the HIAC set the other day. God, that shit sucked. It was one crazy bump, another big bump (but not as crazy), and that's it. That shit sucked worse than I remember. Like really, really awful. Bless Mick's heart, though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah that's a tough match to rate. I mean, it's barely a match really. But the absolute craziness of those spots by Mick (not to mention J.R GOATing on commentary) still make it as classic for me. Though I wouldn't rate it anywhere near ***** or anything.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Mankind KOTR 98- ****


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's the legacy of the match that's important, not necessarily its star rating. It almost singlehandedly turned Foley into a babyface superstar.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't want to be that guy but does anybody have a link to the Hunter/Show match from new year's?


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Watched the new Mankind bluray today, the documentary is really good. A compelling story about Mick Foley becoming a wrestler, and the things he does for charity.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Patrick Bateman said:


> I don't want to be that guy but does anybody have a link to the Hunter/Show match from new year's?


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyanz8_triple-h-vs-big-show_sport#.UX67fbWsh8E


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, behold the most batshit crazy list ever - dude named WeAreProWrestling's WWE ***** matchlist:
(in italic are ones I agree)

#1. Ricky Steamboat v. Randy Savage: Wrestlemania III
#2. Ultimate Warrior v. Randy Savage: Wrestlemania VII 
#3. Bret Hart v. Mr. Perfect: Summerslam 1991 
#4. Royal Rumble Match: Royal Rumble 1992 
_#5. Davey Boy Smith v. Bret Hart: Summerslam 1992 
_#6. Bret Hart v. Mr. Perfect: King of the Ring 1993 
_#7. Bret Hart v. Owen Hart: Wrestlemania X 
_#8. Razor Ramon v. Shawn Michaels: Wrestlemania X 
#9. Bret Hart v. Owen Hart: Summerslam 1994 
#10. Bret Hart v. Mr. Bob Backlund: Survivor Series 1994 
#11. Bret Hart v. Shawn Michaels: Wrestlemania XII 
#12. Shawn Michaels v. Diesel: In Your House- Good Friends, Better Enemies 
_#13. Steve Austin v. Bret Hart: Survivor Series 1996 
__#14. Bret Hart v. Steve Austin: Wrestlemania 13 _
#15. Team Austin v. Hart Foundation: In Your House- Canadian Stampede 
_#16. Undertaker v. Shawn Michaels: Badd Blood- In Your House 
_#17. Undertaker v. Mankind: King of the Ring 1998 
#18. Triple H v. The Rock: Summerslam 1998 
#19. Edge & Christian v. Hardy Boyz: No Mercy 1999 
_#20. Cactus Jack v. Triple H: Royal Rumble 2000 
_#21. Triangle Ladder Match: Wrestlemania 2000(XVI) 
_#22. Steve Austin v. Triple H: No Way Out 2001 
_#23. TLC II: Wrestlemania X-Seven 
_#24. The Rock v. Steve Austin: Wrestlemania X-Seven 
_#25. Team Alliance v. Team WWF: Survivor Series 2001 
#26. Triple H v. Shawn Michaels: Summerslam 2002 
#27. Edge & Rey Mysterio v. Kurt Angle v. Chris Benoit: No Mercy 2002 
#28. Brock Lesnar v. Undertaker: No Mercy 2002 
#29. Smackdown Six Elimination Tag Match: Survivor Series 2002 
#30. Elimination Chamber Match: Survivor Series 2002 
#31. Kurt Angle v. Chris Benoit: Royal Rumble 2003 
#32. Shawn Michaels v. Chris Jericho: Wrestlemania XIX 
#33. Brock Lesnar v. Kurt Angle: 9/18/03 Smackdown 
#34. Team Stone Cold v. Team Bischoff: Survivor Series 2003 
_#35. Triple H v. Shawn Michaels v. Chris Benoit: Wrestlemania XX 
_#36. Kurt Angle v. Shawn Michaels: Wrestlemania 21 
#37. John Cena v. Shawn Michaels: 4/23/07 Monday Night Raw 
#38. Ric Flair v. Shawn Michaels: Wrestlemania XXIV 
_#39. Undertaker v. Shawn Michaels: Wrestlemania 25 
#40. Shawn Michaels v. Undertaker: Wrestlemania XXVI 
_#41. John Cena v. CM Punk: Money in the Bank 2011 
_#42. Triple H v. Undertaker: Wrestlemania XXVIII 
_#43. CM Punk v. John Cena: 2/25/13 Monday Night Raw


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyanz8_triple-h-vs-big-show_sport#.UX67fbWsh8E


Thank you. I should probably start to look more often on dailymotion and not only yt.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, behold the most batshit crazy list ever - dude named WeAreProWrestling's WWE ***** matchlist:
> (in italic are ones I agree)
> 
> #1. Ricky Steamboat v. Randy Savage: Wrestlemania III
> ...


I don't agree with a lot of the list, but the bolded ones are the ones I DEFINITELY don't agree with. The rest I can kinda' understand or I agree with.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

(Y) at #26, but yeah, lot of questionable choices on there. By far the biggest disagreement has gotta be the tag match from Survivor Series '02... Nowhere close to "perfect".

To the guy asking on the last page, go with Danielson's indy set before Punk's. Danielson was essentially the Benoit of the indies, saying he could pull a great match out of almost anyone, anywhere he went.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You think that's bad? He gave Cena/Lesnar ****1/4, and was "under pressure" of Youtubers to have it at EVEN LESS. And his Top WM match ever is fucking Savage/Steamboat.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If there's one match I'll never understand the love for it's the Ramon/HBK ladder match. Probably just me, though. 

*ATF*, what did you give Cena/Lesnar, out of curiousity?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Lesnar? Oh, no shy story. Not really too great, only gave it dem full 5 starz. :brock :cena4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Someone on another forum was talking about Brock's initial run as champion, and was talking about giving him the belt again this year and anyhoo called his Unforgiven match with Taker a DUD


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> Cena/Lesnar? Oh, no shy story. Not really too great, only gave it dem full 5 starz. :brock :cena4


Wouldn't go that high, personally, but it was so great. Going lower than 4.25 stars, though? :hayden3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Someone on another forum was talking about Brock's initial run as champion, and was talking about giving him the belt again this year and anyhoo called his Unforgiven match with Taker a DUD


I can swear I've seen that somewhere. Don't know where exactly, but that Unforgiven match being given a DUD is something I'm familiar with.

And to ABH, if you're here atm, I just finished Benoit/Regal. My thoughts will be posted once the main event is out of the way.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> Wouldn't go that high, personally, but it was so great. Going lower than 4.25 stars, though? :hayden3


Yup. Youtubers *cough*IdiotmarkswhothinkPGEraistherealproblem*cough* hate the finish so hard to the point where some go ***1/2 "at best" in their words. Some semi-Cena marks I know also hated it and called it "too one-sided and boring". :cornette


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

We need KO Bossy in here to talk about Cena/Brock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No wonder I mainly stick to just this thread on WF. Outside these safe walls are retards with minds more closed than the Pope when it comes to gays.

And no wonder this isn't even my main forum any more .


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Cena/Lesnar **3/4 and one of the most overrated matches in years in my opinion.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> Cena/Lesnar **3/4 and one of the most overrated matches in years in my opinion.


Don't like the AWESOMENESS?


----------



## CurryKingDH (Apr 14, 2013)

Finally got around to getting Punk's BITW DVD and ive just finished watching the documentary part. LOVED IT!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs John Cena is the fifth greatest match in WWF/WWE history.

Wrestling Forum is fucking retarded outside of this thread no doubt, however every now and then we get a few in here that dumb down the collective IQ of the entire thread.

Anyways I just watched Triple H beat down Viscera + Squash him in 25 seconds, compelling stuff. The post match promo the night before Taboo Tuesday 2005 is excellent as well. People really hate on Trips for his long, winded mic work in the Evolution days, but during The "King of Kings" phase he wasn't the number one guy anymore ; thus he rarely opened the show and cut fantastic promos in his programs.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

So just because I don't love a match that you do I'm lowering the IQ of the thread?

I have Austin/Triple H from NWO at ***** and know people that don't even think it's close. I don't think they are dumbing anything down though. Cena/Lesnar just wasn't my kind of match. I don't think anyone is dumb for liking it I just disagree.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Cena/Lesnar **3/4 and one of the most overrated matches in years in my opinion.












But hey, its all opinions :$


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> So just because I don't love a match that you do I'm lowering the IQ of the thread?
> 
> I have Austin/Triple H from NWO at ***** and know people that don't even think it's close. I don't think they are dumbing anything down though. Cena/Lesnar just wasn't my kind of match. I don't think anyone is dumb for liking it I just disagree.


Austin/Triple H from NWO is one of my favorite matches of all time.

Also loved Cena/Lesnar.. was brutal and had a Rocky 4 like feel.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

@Dark Church what's your ratings for the two Trips and Lesnar matches?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I wasn't talking about you Dark Church, don't worry .

HHH VS RIC FLAIR. RAGE IN THE CAGE.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Ever Wolf said:


> @Dark Church what's your ratings for the two Trips and Lesnar matches?



ss: **1/2
wm: ***1/2


I have only seen each them once though.




KingOfKings said:


> I wasn't talking about you Dark Church, don't worry .
> 
> HHH VS RIC FLAIR. RAGE IN THE CAGE.


No problem that just came right after my comment so I thought it may have been directed at me.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

zep81 said:


> But hey, its all opinions :$


Is that the fat dude from GoT?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Quick question for those who were discussing it a bit earlier. Is the Raw Homecoming DVD the entire show from start to finish or just selected segments? I'm about to put an order through on SV and I'm wondering if this one is worth picking up.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

To be fair, if you don't like opera and cannot grasp it, rating the dramatic piece will not reflect its true score. The same, too, for anything else, including wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Quick question for those who were discussing it a bit earlier. Is the Raw Homecoming DVD the entire show from start to finish or just selected segments? I'm about to put an order through on SV and I'm wondering if this one is worth picking up.


Its the entire show .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Its the entire show .


Can always count on you, Cal . 

Think I'll go for it then. Raw Homecoming, HIAC Anthology and Viva La Raza all for £21. Sorted.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

@zeb, I love that sig :lmao


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I know it isn't WWE but if you haven't seen KENTA/Bryan Danielson from ROH's Glory By Honor V Night 2 you should. I give it ***** and it truly shows just how amazing Danielson can be. I wish WWE would let him work a style more like that sometimes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Can always count on you, Cal .
> 
> Think I'll go for it then. Raw Homecoming, HIAC Anthology and Viva La Raza all for £21. Sorted.


HIAC set is awesome. Glad they released it before the HIAC PPV, as that way we got a TON of tremendous quality matches (with one or two exceptions) rather than some dull, mediocre matches that likely would have been on the set in place of some of the better ones, since it took 3 discs for all of those before the HIAC PPV.

Eddie set is a ton of fun. Love the bits in between the matches with people talking about Eddie and their matches together. Wish Eddie was still around and could have had a proper documentary made like the ones we get now. His Cheating Death, Stealing Life one was ok but very disappointing overall. They've come a long way since they when it came to docs... though then again they did the Benoit one around the same time and that was pretty awesome. Bah. His book is great though and fills in all the gaps and then some. GO BUY EDDIE'S BOOK.

Hope my SV order comes soon. Not even been dispatched yet, guessing with their "going out of (wwe) business sale" they can't get them out as quick. Waiting on 12 DVD's .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> HIAC set is awesome. Glad they released it before the HIAC PPV, as that way we got a TON of tremendous quality matches (with one or two exceptions) rather than some dull, mediocre matches that likely would have been on the set in place of some of the better ones, since it took 3 discs for all of those before the HIAC PPV.
> 
> Eddie set is a ton of fun. Love the bits in between the matches with people talking about Eddie and their matches together. Wish Eddie was still around and could have had a proper documentary made like the ones we get now. His Cheating Death, Stealing Life one was ok but very disappointing overall. They've come a long way since they when it came to docs... though then again they did the Benoit one around the same time and that was pretty awesome. Bah. His book is great though and fills in all the gaps and then some. GO BUY EDDIE'S BOOK.
> 
> Hope my SV order comes soon. Not even been dispatched yet, guessing with their "going out of (wwe) business sale" they can't get them out as quick. Waiting on 12 DVD's .


Been wanting the HIAC set for ages now but never got around to buying it. Decided I had better do it quickly since things are starting to go now. Went to buy Austin's latest set and it's gone. I go on there and browse all the time and never end up buying anything. So much stuff and I can't bring myself to buy it. What are the chances that when they finally close I'll want everything? 100% lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Mercy 2006:*

Gregory Helms vs Matt Hardy - ★★★¼
- Hell of a match with some solid back and forth action involving both. Think it was a bit overkill with finishers in the end, though. And it being a non-title match was just retarded. They want Helms to remain champion so book him in a non-title match against someone who has fought him for that championship before just so he can lose. Made no sense unlike other scenarios like Orton vs Cody from Vengeance 2011 or Flair vs HHH from Survivor Series. That aside, I enjoyed this and they get quite a bit of time.

Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs Idol Stevens & KC James - ★★¼
- LOL @ Idol Stevens, that is all. But for the match itself, it was not horrible or anything. Not up to par to Londrick's best stuff since their opponents are not as good as other teams they've fought but they still make it work because of how awesome and fast paced their moves are. The rookie team are pretty green and it's no wonder they were let go shortly after this. Only for Stevens to return as Damien Sandow!

MVP vs Jobber - ½★
- Giving this a half star just because of how funny MVP is. His arrogant smile and confidence is just oozing and the heat he gets from the crowd and even the color commentator, JBL, is great.

Undertaker vs Mr. Kennedy - ★★★½
- A bit dull in parts because it goes for too long and the DQ finish was plain stupid but otherwise, this was pretty good. Kennedy doing a Piledriver was a legit surprise for me. Kennedy looks much better than he ever was in his career up to this point and Taker is on his game. Remove five minutes and it could've been even great. But still, that finish was trash. Why did Taker get himself DQed when he clearly had the upper-hand? Still, the last sight is a great one when he Tombstones the referee.

Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero - ★★★¼
- Another solid match for this PPV. The Falls Count Anywhere stipulation is utilized well under the time they get as they exit the ring pretty fast and spend most of the time fighting through the crowd. Felt intense and Chavo looks better here than usual. Rey is just Rey and delivers as always. Pretty unique finish too.

Chris Benoit vs William Regal - ★★★★¼
- BENOIT IS BACK and what a match to come back with! This match is simply LEGIT! They hit each other with everything they have and none of it is fake. Those headbutts open both men up pretty fast and that Diving Headbutt Benoit does right after looks brutal as he lands his head onto Regal's head. Everything else is awesome and this is 11 minutes of BRUTALITY! The kicks by Regal, the chops to the FOREHEAD! The blood... I can go on all day about how much this rules but let's say, I appreciate it even more than I used to. Smackdown will also become fun to watch from here on as the great one is back to have quality matches every week! Oh, and I must mention the DRAGON SUPLEX!

Booker T vs Bobby Lashley vs Finlay vs Batista - ★★★¾
- I'm usually a fan of multi-men matches and this one is no different. Gets plenty of time and has many fun parts like when Finlay turns on Booker and when it comes down to the two big men in the match towards the end. Great finisher fest towards the end as well with Booker sneaking away still champion by utilizing Batista's powerbomb on Finlay. Consistently enjoyable action with a good crowd and everyone getting consistent amount of ring time. There have certainly been better four way matches but this one is great on its own.

*Overall:* ★★★½ out of ★★★★★ (Very good PPV and enjoyable for the most part. The worse parts don't last very long and it's a fun ride for two and a half hours. Might also be the best Smackdown only PPV ever since 2004. Nearly every match is very good and the worst part only lasts a mere 2 minutes. And did anyone notice the "We Hate Cena" guy with the glasses on front row with his Rated R t-shirt?)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHOA.

Just watched the Triple H vs Ric Flair Steel Cage match from Taboo Tuesday 2005 and I have to say that it holds up better than ever. Triple H's dickish old school heel performance was fantastic with his mannerisms towards Flair and just the way he carried himself throughout, while I thought Flair had an extremely defiant babyface comeback. Mix that with the fact that they used the cage the way it should be used for the most part and you've got one HELL of a story being told out there. I believe that this should have went on last ala Orton-Flair and the show should have closed with Flair triumphing over The Game, but what can you do? The feud is escalating to even more violent levels (big brawl in the crowd on the next RAW), but the whole Eddie thing happened ..... and now I've got a HHH vs Benoit match to watch from the tribute Smackdown.

Don't see how the Last Man Standing can hold up to the cage match, although it's one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Been wanting the HIAC set for ages now but never got around to buying it. Decided I had better do it quickly since things are starting to go now. Went to buy Austin's latest set and it's gone. I go on there and browse all the time and never end up buying anything. So much stuff and I can't bring myself to buy it. What are the chances that when they finally close I'll want everything? 100% lol.


Austin's latest set is gone? Was in stock yesterday when I made my order lol. Was considering getting it as one of the free DVD's for a future competition on my site lol. But decided to get stuff for MEEEEE instead .

Only thing I'll really miss from SV when they stop selling WWE DVD's is tagged classics. They are still mostly really expensive (more than SV charge) on placed like ebay, Amazon (and sellers), and Play (sellers too) brand new. PPV's are at least cheap as fuck. I picked up every 2006 PPV and didn't pay any more than £3 for any of them, and they were all new and sealed. But at least with the TC there isn't much I want. I own all the RR's with either the Anthology set or normal released. WM with TC and then 15 onwards with normal releases. Never been too bothered with SS and SS since most of the time the cards BLOW. Same with KOTR. Got a few here and there but that's it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ironic how Idol Stevens also wore dem pink in the ring as his "cousin" *coughcough* Damien Sandow :lol:

Yeah, No Mercy '06 is fucking phenomenal. Love that PPV so much I'd fuck it anally if it was a human girl (jk obviously  ). Benoit/Regal is one of my favourite matches ever, and I also enjoyed the hell out of many of those matches, like Matt/Helms, Londrick/Teacher's Pets and (to my surprise) Rey/Chavo. Also C2D, did you watch the Miz birthday segment? Layla. Layla's in a garter belt/stockings. Her ass is zoomed. And I might've jacked off to that more than anyone else in Mankind history....


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> Ironic how Idol Stevens also wore dem pink in the ring as his "cousin" *coughcough* Damien Sandow :lol:
> 
> Yeah, No Mercy '06 is fucking phenomenal. Love that PPV so much I'd fuck it anally if it was a human girl (jk obviously  ). Benoit/Regal is one of my favourite matches ever, and I also enjoyed the hell out of many of those matches, like Matt/Helms, Londrick/Teacher's Pets and (to my surprise) Rey/Chavo. Also C2D, did you watch the Miz birthday segment? Layla. Layla's in a garter belt/stocking. Her ass is zoomed. *And I might've jacked off to that more than anyone else in Mankind history....*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Austin's latest set is gone? Was in stock yesterday when I made my order lol. Was considering getting it as one of the free DVD's for a future competition on my site lol. But decided to get stuff for MEEEEE instead .
> 
> Only thing I'll really miss from SV when they stop selling WWE DVD's is tagged classics. They are still mostly really expensive (more than SV charge) on placed like ebay, Amazon (and sellers), and Play (sellers too) brand new. PPV's are at least cheap as fuck. I picked up every 2006 PPV and didn't pay any more than £3 for any of them, and they were all new and sealed. But at least with the TC there isn't much I want. I own all the RR's with either the Anthology set or normal released. WM with TC and then 15 onwards with normal releases. Never been too bothered with SS and SS since most of the time the cards BLOW. Same with KOTR. Got a few here and there but that's it.


I'm afraid to ask you to link me to the Austin set because if you do then I'm going to feel like a right fucking idiot. I searched for that thing every way I could and it didn't show. If it's there I'm going to have to spend another 5 million hours searching for 2 other things to go with it :lol. I don't really bother with buying PPV's because I have a friend who owns a ton so I just borrow from him if I want to watch something I don't have. Besides, I don't want to drop money on SHIT. Too many weak ass shows to get wrapped up in collecting. I just buy what I want because I want it. No pressure that way.

Haitch/Naitch is GOAT. Decided I'm going to chip away at my ***** and ****3/4 rated matches lists to see if they hold up. This one is part of the latter group although I haven't got to it yet. Watched Cena/Umaga LMS the other day though it was just as awesome as it's always been. ****3/4 legit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Flair/HHH in the cage is a ★★★★½ classic. Flair's face performance is off the charts! Only someone with his greatness can make you mark out for a testicle claw!



ATF said:


> Ironic how Idol Stevens also wore dem pink in the ring as his "cousin" *coughcough* Damien Sandow :lol:
> 
> Yeah, No Mercy '06 is fucking phenomenal. Love that PPV so much I'd fuck it anally if it was a human girl (jk obviously  ). Benoit/Regal is one of my favourite matches ever, and I also enjoyed the hell out of many of those matches, like Matt/Helms, Londrick/Teacher's Pets and (to my surprise) Rey/Chavo. Also C2D, did you watch the Miz birthday segment? Layla. Layla's in a garter belt/stocking. Her ass is zoomed. And I might've jacked off to that more than anyone else in Mankind history....


I noticed that. I guess he wants to emulate the Hart family. Bret is probably like "4/10" all along, though. 

And yeah, I saw that Miz segment. It was a complete buzzkill when they brought out that oiled up, fat fuck in a thong, though. Had to skip that shit!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was there live for the HHH/Flair cage match and it was truly awesome. Bought the DVD just so I could rewatch it on a TV screen to see if it held up. It definitely did.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't worry Starbuck, just had a look and the DVD is definitely gone now . Only one left is the Legacy of Steve Austin.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


>


I hope you understood I meant that I jacked off to Layla BEFORE the gift opened, not anything afterwards... yes, even though Miz was there too :$

But I'll let Layla herself explain it to ya:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Don't worry Starbuck, just had a look and the DVD is definitely gone now . Only one left is the Legacy of Steve Austin.


You fucking troll. 

I haven't bought anything from the new wwedvd.whatever site yet. SV have trained me not to pay those prices for anything after all these years. The only thing I'll be getting full price will be the :jpl set when it goes up for pre-order. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, glad i picked up all the Tagged Classics i need now, as Cal said, on Amazon and elsewhere they are £20+, and they will go up in price im sure 

There are only a handful i havnt got/not interested in, like the first couple of Survivor Series' (still own the uncut VHS's lol), a Rock one and US Rampage


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, behold the most batshit crazy list ever - dude named WeAreProWrestling's WWE ***** matchlist:
> (in italic are ones I agree)
> 
> #1. Ricky Steamboat v. Randy Savage: Wrestlemania III
> ...


just got back from class and saw this :drake3 yikes. Sorry if I'm wrong gents but one shouldnt have that many 5 since 5 stars are suppose to be a flawless, perfect match ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> You fucking troll.
> 
> I haven't bought anything from the new wwedvd.whatever site yet. SV have trained me not to pay those prices for anything after all these years. The only thing I'll be getting full price will be the :jpl set when it goes up for pre-order. :mark:


Lol, I'm the same. Those fucking prices can fuck off. Have you seen their latest poll on the site though? Asking what fans want to be released on Bluray soon. Most are just re-releases of things SV did... but they also have Live in the UK as an option... and MONEY IN THE BANK 2011. Loved that whole show so I'd love a bluray release since we never got an official one. Live in the UK on Bluray would be great too, especially if they did some great extras.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Lol, I'm the same. Those fucking prices can fuck off. Have you seen their latest poll on the site though? Asking what fans want to be released on Bluray soon. Most are just re-releases of things SV did... but they also have Live in the UK as an option... and MONEY IN THE BANK 2011. Loved that whole show so I'd love a bluray release since we never got an official one. Live in the UK on Bluray would be great too, especially if they did some great extras.


They actually had to lower the prices from the original scale because there was mass INTERNET RAGE at the beginning right? Everybody should have kicked off again and maybe they would have lowered them more. From what I know, they haven't even had any sort of sale or anything like that yet either. I'll hold out for that if it ever happens and eventually start to pick some things up from them. I usually buy Mania full price as soon as it's out every year too but fuck that shit this year. I'm not paying over 10 quid for that piece of crap. Well I say that but if I have the money I might end up caving and buying it lol, mainly because I want to watch the HOF in its entirety. MITB blu-ray would be nice. I don't really go for the Live in the UK sets although the recent Raw one would be worth a buy for obvious reasons.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, they lowered the prices by about £2 after everyone raged at the start :lmao. Still not good enough. Plus like you said, no sales from them or anything. Kinda thought they'd start with a sale to try and get things going with the site. But nah. And fuck the WM. I haven't paid full price for it in about 2 years now, even from SV. I can wait. Same with the RR. I own all the WM's and RR's so even shit events will be bought by me, but for full price? LOL. Hell I think for WM 27 Bluray I even ended up buying it first from the US as I got it cheaper with delivery than I could buy it over here, though it is only a 2 disc edition and the UK is 3 disc so I ended up with both, when the UK one went on offer .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know SV recently said on Twitter that it could be "any day now" that they could stop selling WWE DVD's, hope it is still June and no earlier, still want a handful of PPV's, gonna really miss them, never missed a beat with SV


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> just got back from class and saw this :drake3 yikes. Sorry if I'm wrong gents but one shouldnt have that many 5 since 5 stars are suppose to be a flawless, perfect match ?


I hope you didn't misguide yourself, this list isn't my own  And I couldn't agree more with you. Probably less than half of that list is what I believe is ***** stuff :lol

My WWE ***** matches are:

Bret/Bulldog SSlam
Bret/Owen WM 10
Bret/Austin SS
Bret/Austin WM 13
Taker/HBK HIAC
HHH/Foley RR
Austin/HHH NWO
Rock/Austin WM 17
HHH/HBK/Benoit WM 20
Taker/HBK WM 25
Taker/HBK WM 26
Taker/HHH WM 28
Cena/Lesnar ER

Yup, that's it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I still wanna know why WWE stopped using SV and went with someone else. They have a LONG history together, and SV are big "fan favourites" so it doesn't seem to make sense to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> I still wanna know why WWE stopped using SV and went with someone else. They have a LONG history together, and SV are big "fan favourites" so it doesn't seem to make sense to me.


I thought it was something to do with the digital downloads, even though im sure SV could have handled those too,

I remember using SV when i was a kid in the early 90's when it was fucking mail order through the post lol (yeah showing my age  )


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I still don't understand why they changed in the first place tbh. It was far from broke. Why fix it? I hate the new site on principle alone because SV were so good. Hopefully they have a sale soon. I'd be surprised if they're making any money at all since most people are more than likely going crazy on SV. As for Mania 29, I'll have a serious think about it when it comes out. I've bought the last few right away but I was there for those and wanted to watch them on TV. I'm not the least bit interested in watching 29 again. I want it for the HOF above all else. How sad is that?

EDIT - I have six ***** matches. Having a crazy amount just defeats the purpose of throwing the full five at them. The whole point is to draw a line between GOAT and not GOAT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> I hope you didn't misguide yourself, this list isn't my own  And I couldn't agree more with you. Probably less than half of that list is what I believe is ***** stuff :lol
> 
> My WWE ***** matches are:
> 
> ...


Nope I know its not you dont worry haha
Mine are
Bret/stone wm 13
hbk/taker wm 26
savage/steamboat wm 3
hhh/taker wm 28
punk/cena mitb
cena/brock ex 12
taker/hbk BB97 hiac
angle/benoit rr 03
hbk/taker wm 25


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My WWE ***** matches:

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - In Your House 18: Bad Blood 1997
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 26 2010
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - Survivor Series 1996
Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 1997
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania 25 2009
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - SummerSlam 1991
Royal Rumble Match 1992
Kurt Angle Vs Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2003
Bret Hart Vs Mr Perfect - King of the Ring 1993


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My ***** matches:

Miz vs. Barret #78047892
Kofi vs. Ziggler #1290897
Rock vs. Cena #2
HHH vs. Taker KOTR
HBK vs. Hogan SS
Austin vs. Debra's cookies
BORK vs. Steel Steps


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> My ***** matches:
> 
> Miz vs. Barret #78047892
> Kofi vs. Ziggler #1290897
> ...


At least I'm not alone.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> At least I'm not alone.


MEAN MARK.

:taker


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Seems legit. :brock


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It is. :HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> My ***** matches:
> 
> Miz vs. Barret #78047892
> Kofi vs. Ziggler #1290897
> ...


Serious? This HAS to be a fucking troll post. That is fucking retarded. Miz Vs Barret #7804789*1* is the clear ***** match...


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

My WWE ***** matches

The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match from Badd Blood 1997
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 25
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 26
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Survivor Series 1996
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Submission Match from Wrestlemania 13
Edge & Christian vs Hardy Boyz vs Dudley Boyz - TLC Match from Summerslam 2000
Triple H vs Cactus Jack - Street Fight from Royal Rumble 2000
The Rock vs Triple H - Iron Man Match from Judgment Day 2000
Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker - No Way Out 2006
CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the Bank 2011
John Cena vs Umaga - Last Man Standing Match from Royal Rumble 2007
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Big Z said:


> Serious? This HAS to be a fucking troll post. That is fucking retarded. Miz Vs Barret #7804789*1* is the clear ***** match...


I got mixed up, sorry. This is the one I meant. I mean, it's such a good match that WWE even had Barrett talk about how fantastic it was. This is the one right here. 






:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Top 100 John Cena Matches Of All Time (50-41)

50.










WWE Championship - John Cena Vs Randy Orton(c) Vs Triple H Vs JBL (Backlash 2008) : **** 1/2*


49.










WWE Championship - John Cena Vs The Miz (RAW 5/2/11) : **** 1/2*


48.










John Cena vs Daniel Bryan (RAW 8/6/12) : **** 1/2*

47.










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Christian vs Chris Jericho (Vengeance 2005) : **** 1/2*

46.










John Cena vs JBL (Judgment Day 2008) : **** 1/2*


45.










WWE Championship - John Cena vs Randy Orton(c) vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIV) : **** 1/2*


44.










WWE Championship - John Cena vs Batista(c) (Wrestlemania XXVI) : **** 1/2*


43.










John Cena vs The Big Show (Judgment Day 2009) : **** 1/2*


42.










John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (RAW 3/10/2008) : **** 3/4*


41.










John Cena vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 12/2/03) : **** 3/4*


Notes and other shit :

Here we get to the portion of the countdown that's probably going to become universally bashed, so I might as well explain my reasoning behind including some of these matches that everybody hates. The Judgment Day duo of both Cena vs JBL and Cena vs Big Show were both wonderful in the sense that the Big Show match featured a wonderful heel control segment by Big Show with Cena's ribs being targeted for the entire match, while the JBL match featured another brilliant but simplistic heel control segment by JBL that kept Cena down for quite a long time. Both had a more methodical pace and both didn't feature your typical Cena comeback sequence as there were a few monkey wrenches thrown into the equation that I enjoyed. Can you believe that Cena opened up the show at Judgment Day 2008 with JBL? That blew my fucking mind.

The best Miz-Cena match is on here as well, and if they had to have that match at Wrestlemania XXVII it would have been one of the better Wrestlemania main events for sure (better than Rock-Cena I & II anyways). The "forgotten" Shawn Michaels vs Cena match is on here as well and even though it's perhaps the weakest of the entire bunch, it's still a fantastic contest with the chemistry oozing from the two as only Cena and HBK can do together. Never heard ANYBODY bring it up in a conversation which is weird because the match is a fantastic work.

The multi-man contests on this are pretty self explanatory ; Cena isn't really around for the majority of the Backlash 2008 match although when he is there it happens to be one of the better four way matches I've seen, while Vengeance 2005 seems to be the only time Christian and Cena were allowed to really go out there and work their magic together with Jericho involved as well. I'm a huge fan of the Mania XXIV tag and how it was worked, I just didn't feel that the pacing was right for a triple threat match and I always felt that their was something MISSING from the match, despite the match being fucking awesome itself.

The Batista selection on here is going to receive a ton of scrunity as well, but I was always a fan of Batista and Cena's chemistry (as you'll find out soon enough, one of their matches isn't very good though and you know which one it is) and felt that this never really got the recognition it deserved at times for being that clash of the titans type match that Rock-Cena really should have been. The Bryan match is a fucking tease because you just know that if given 20 minutes on PPV it would be a classic match that would tear the house down, but I think a top 50 match in the career of John Cena is pretty fucking awesome considering where, when, and how we got the match in the first place.​


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> My ***** matches:
> 
> Miz vs. Barret #78047892
> Kofi vs. Ziggler #1290897
> ...


:lmao :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> My ***** matches:
> 
> Miz vs. Barret #78047892
> Kofi vs. Ziggler #1290897
> ...


You're not high on Cena/Diet Soda? That's like the GOAT of GOATS. Puts Austin/Debra's Cookies and Miz/Barrett #78047892 in a corner imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So Cena had two matches at Judgment Day 2009? :cena4 (seems like I either misread it or you corrected it)

Nice to see the RABID WOLVERINE appear, though! Specially while making Cena tap out.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ no love for orton/barrett 709864564 god wade such a great worker


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The epic series of Orton/Spanish Table in 2011 was *****. The intensity was amazing.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> just got back from class and saw this :drake3 yikes. Sorry if I'm wrong gents but one shouldnt have that many 5 since 5 stars are suppose to be a flawless, perfect match ?


I have over 70 on my list...but I don't think more than 10 of them are from WWF/E.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> The epic series of Orton/Spanish Table in 2011 was *****. The intensity was amazing.


 Feud was also resumed back in late 2012


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Loving the Cena countdown, KOK. 

HHH/Flair can't get enough praise, ****3/4 for the cage and ****1/2 for the Last Man Standing.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Would love to try some of debra's sweets. :austin


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I thought both Batista/Cena matches at SS and WM were great.
I'm also a mark for the Adamle Era.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, forgot about Orton/SAT too, that was truly classical. It seems that the SAT has now started a feud with Punk now :mark:


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I think the WM match was a bit boring to be honest but SS was pretty bad ass.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The Adamle era produced the Championship Scramble match which I enjoyed. I wish they would do one again. Ziggler/ADR/Swagger/Henry/Sheamus could be great.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Scramble match highlight was THE Brian Kendrick being interim champ for like 2 minutes.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

THE Brian Kendrick was awesome.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

THE Brian Kendrick is the GOAT of scramble matches.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What's the best THE Brian Kendrick singles match?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

THE Brian Kendrick was the shit. His entrance was absolutely amazing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Batista/Cena SS >>>>>>>>>> WM btw imo.

Didn't THE Brian Kendrick have a good match against Kofi after the draft?


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

And his theme was bad ass. Man with a fucking plan.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've heard Kendrick was supposedly fired for either refusing to throw cake or throwing cake too violently during HHH's 40th birthday post-Raw. I don't really believe it, but I want to because it's incredible.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Always hope they'd do more scramble matches and i marked so hard for Kendrick at that time.
Bumped his entrance music on my ipod daily.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've heard Kendrick was supposedly fired for either refusing to throw cake or throwing cake too violently during HHH's 40th birthday post-Raw. I don't really believe it, but I want to because it's incredible.


Wait, what?! That's the greatest anecdote I've ever heard.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Not sure. Wiki said he was just released from his contract.

Well, I don't know if that is a legit source but apparently is was due to his drug use.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/191287-details-behind-brian-kendricks-wwe-release-drug-use


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure about THE Brian Kendrick's best singles, but (just) Brian Kendrick's best singles match that I can recall is the badass match vs Austin Aries at BFG 2011. Oh, and between THE Brian Kendrick, Londrick and Spanky, dude sure has had some awesome gimmicks.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Scramble match highlight was THE Brian Kendrick being interim champ for like 2 minutes.


"THE Brian Kendrick is THE WWE Champion." Definitely the highlight of the match.

Gold gimmick. Decent mic-work. Immense ring-work. Loads of potential. Also liked how he named his own finisher "THE Kendrick" by his own name, one of the things that really enhanced his character further.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

He also had some sweet jackets during that run:



















Such a waste. Awesome gimmick. Plus Big Zeke worked well with him.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well considering that HHH and Vince basically wrestled in the cake, it can't be the violent thing. And LOL for being fired for refusing to throw cake.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Remember Kendrick having a match against Jeff Hardy and beating him, pretty big considering Hardy was starting to get his push.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Well, to be fair, cake is a terrible thing to waste.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Does anybody remember his debut in like 03 in that one Undertaker segment?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I :mark:'d hard for Kendrick during that push. It's a shame it was cut short because he was starting to get a following. I remember one guy in the crowd doing THE Brian Kendrick's little dance along with him following Kendrick kicking someone in the face during the Scramble.

edit Also :mark:'d when he won the Battle Royale to enter the Scramble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember people claiming he was the next HBK with Big Zeke being the next Diesel :lmao.

I did enjoy THE Brian Kendrick while it lasted though. And I also miss Scramble matches . They did a fucking fatal four way PPV but no Scramble PPV? BUUUUUUUUULLSHIT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea not a big fan of cena/Batista wm 26 either their ss 08 encounter is much better. As for the THE brian Kendrick, wasted talent and i actually enjoyed big zeke with him. I also want to believe that was the reason he got fired just for the sheer amusement of it lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Wait, what?! That's the greatest anecdote I've ever heard.





Patrick Bateman said:


> Not sure. Wiki said he was just released from his contract.
> 
> Well, I don't know if that is a legit source but apparently is was due to his drug use.
> 
> http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/191287-details-behind-brian-kendricks-wwe-release-drug-use


I was/am sceptical, but really wanted to believe it because it's so mind-blowing-ly awesome. I will admit he wasn't fired for anything cake-related, but will continue to think that he was in my head.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I really liked TBK a well. Was hoping they would do more with him.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Nothing wrong with that because it would be fucking awesome. :vince2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I was/am sceptical, but really wanted to believe it because it's so mind-blowing-ly awesome. I will admit he wasn't fired for anything cake-related, but will continue to think that he was in my head.


Anyone that ever gets fired for something 'cake related' gets a (Y) in my book.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Somebody must have touted on THE Brian Kendrick for throwing/not throwing cake because there's no way either Vince or HHH saw it. They were too busy acting out their long lived fantasy of humping each other in the ring with the added bonus of cake to know what was going on around them. 

Awesome story though. I want to believe it so I will. It's too cool to ignore. Cake > TBK.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Somebody must have touted on THE Brian Kendrick for throwing/not throwing cake because there's no way either Vince or HHH saw it. They were too busy acting out their long lived fantasy of humping each other in the ring with the added bonus of cake to know what was going on around them.
> 
> Awesome story though. I want to believe it so I will. It's too cool to ignore. *Cake > TBK*.


:heyman


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Patrick Bateman said:


> :heyman


The HEYman with a plan..... :side:


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Heyman is gonna bring back TBK after ER!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CakeBK


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

TBK was boss for sure.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Watching Raw right now...

... can CM Punk please come back and become WWE Champion again? Like tonight? Have him use an imaginary WWE Title MITB and cash it in on Cena. I'd be fine with that!


----------



## Berzerker's Beard (Nov 20, 2012)

Nick the stitch chant. Just do it.

Oh, and this is shameless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OMG GUYS RANDY ORTON IS IN ACTION NEXT!

(Changes Channel)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

This is why you wait till the morning to watch Raw, skip through the 2 hours+ of shite and try and find some decent action to watch.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk needs to get his smile back quickly and get back on the show and save it asap. I'm not the only one that thinks that too, Choke2Death has my back on this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Punk needs to get his smile back quickly and get back on the show and save it asap. *I'm not the only one that thinks that too, Choke2Death has my back on this*.


I for one am getting sick of the Punk dick-riding by Choke2Death. I swear to GOD he isn't even a mark for wrestling, he's JUST a mark for CM GOAT (as he likes to refer to Punk as).

Why do I think that the match I just watched is going to be severely overated? I just get that feeling. Twas decent and nothing else.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> I for one am getting sick of the Punk dick-riding by Choke2Death. I swear to GOD he isn't even a mark for wrestling, he's JUST a mark for CM GOAT (as he likes to refer to Punk as).


He goes a bit overboard on it, but I'm a little more concerned about his hate for Randy Orton. He was seen trashing that pretty decent Orton/Cody match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

decent rhodes/orton match if built up properly this could be a good program


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

His long/winded rants about how Orton should be in TNA have gotten tedious as of late.

The finish to that match was unbelievably stupid though. Cody leading with his head for the disaster kick?

... Riiiiiiiight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol. But seriously, that Orton/Cody match wasn't bad. Went a lot longer than I expected it to.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^rko out of nowhere (cole voice)


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Was going to finish this about 9-10 hours ago, but bleh. Incredibly mixed cards in quality.

Clash of Champions 1

Jimmy Garvin vs Mike Rotunda *
Midnight Express vs the Fantastics ****1/4
Dusty Rhodes & the Road Warriors vs Paul Jones' army *
Barry Windham/Lex Luger vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard ****1/4
Sting vs Ric Flair N/A (tomorrow, a 45 minute match can fuck right off for now)

Halloween Havoc 1997

Yugi Nagata vs Ultimo Dragon **1/2
Chris Jericho vs Gedo ***1/4
Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero ****1/4
Michael McMongo vs Alex Wright watched it and had to stop watching wrestling for 7-8 hours
Disco Inferno vs Jacquline N/A skipped
Lex Luger vs Scott Hall N/A saw 2 minutes and skipped
DDP vs Randy Savage ***3/4
Roddy Piper vs Hollywood Hulk Hogan need something other than a star system to judge this, watched the entire match stupified​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't get over the absurdity of that finish.

The LEAST they could have did was to have Orton duck the disaster kick and THEN hit an RKO once Rhodes turned around, at least THAT would have made sense. Guess it's not as FLASHY!* though so we can't possibly have that.

Mysterio-Eddie & Savage-DDP are fantastic, although I'd have Mysterio-Eddie at a significantly higher level than just four and a quarter. Not sure if I'd give it the full five... MAYBE. Savage vs DDP just so happens to be one of my favorite series' of matches ever due to both guys being personal favorites of mine and all of the matches being linear and AWESOME.

Glad you enjoyed Windham/Luger vs Arn/Tully. One of the best 10 minute matches I've ever seen.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea decent match since their usual one decent match on raw and then all bull *** i think Ill go watch the bulls/nets for alittle


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Was going to finish this about 9-10 hours ago, but bleh. Incredibly mixed cards in quality.
> 
> Clash of Champions 1
> 
> ...


Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't put that one at 5*. Have it **** 1/2 personally but people seem to REALLY love it.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've heard Kendrick was supposedly fired for either refusing to throw cake or throwing cake too violently during HHH's 40th birthday post-Raw. I don't really believe it, but I want to because it's incredible.


Strangely enough he talked about this in an interview with Powerslam magazine last month. I'll type out what he said about it:
*
Interviewer:*

In retrospect, was there anything else you did which might have contributed to WWE's decision to sack you?

*THE Brian Kendrick:*

My wife thinks, and she's probably right, that... The last day I was there (July 27, 2009 Raw), they had a birthday party for HHH at the end of the show, and they gave everybody cakes to throw at him. I told Mark Carrano, Johnny Ace's assistant, that it was stupid, and I didn't want to be forced to celebrate anything. So, I waited until everybody threw their cakes, paused about 10 seconds, then launched my cake out of the the ring about three or four rows deep.

They never told me I had been fired for the cake incident, I asked for an explanation, and they said: "You're just not getting the job done." But that's bullshit.

I said: "Tell me the truth, is it my behaviour? Is it the drugs?" And Johnny said: "Do you need help getting back to Japan?" And I said: "No. I've been there something like 20 times, I don't need your help getting back to Japan."

So, I was upset they wouldn't tell me me the reason. But, at the same time, if they were say to me it was because of the marijuana, there are organisations, like NORML in California, the organisation for medical Marijuana. And I had a card, I was smoking legally. It would be a wrongful firing. NORML has lawyers which, if I wanted to go that route, could have helped me sue WWE for wrongful termination. The truth is, they never tell anybody why they fire them.

It was: "You're not getting the job done." Which I wasn't. But not in the ring. With my behaviour, I was a headache. I understand it.


The rest of the interview is just as interesting/entertaining, although it's nowhere near as funny as the interview they did with Paul London a couple of years back when he talked about his interactions with HHH, spending the last few months of his WWE tenure walking around arenas with a trident, the 'smile incident' before Vince got blown up in the limo, escapades with TBK and BENOIT in greasy diners, including one where they defended an attractive waitress from bell end customers before BENOIT encouraged London to chat up the waitress so he could fuck her while TBK and Benoit jerked off while watching in a closet :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

your not the only one. I have it a ****1/4, there smackdown june 2005 match is their best match and a ****3/4 for me


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

KingOfKings said:


> Mysterio-Eddie & Savage-DDP are fantastic, although I'd have Mysterio-Eddie at a significantly higher level than just four and a quarter. Not sure if I'd give it the full five... MAYBE.


My impatience hurt Savage/DDP. Slow pace. It was brilliantly worked though, definately going to re-visit it after Sting/Flair tomorrow.

@Jack/Corey etc , I agree, I can't really see the flawless quality of it. While the intensity from Eddie was just fantastic, everything they did was so well executed, I just can't bring myself round to it being anything above what I believe is a ****1/2 or higher. Fantastic match-up with the mentioned qualities, but nothing much more, which would take it the rest of the way for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DOLPH deserves better than wrestling Kofi every week.

Get that piece of shit off of my television screen please. LEGIT changing the channel (well, turning off my screen) until it's over .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

honest question has kofi ever had a singles match over ***3/4 stars


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Question ; has Kofi had a match over *****?

Some people like to say the Orton match but honest to God I'm not a fan of that one either.

Fuck Kofi. Besides matches w/Christian & Jericho that I don't really remember, I'm sure that the rest of his singles matches are below three stars. I would imagine that he has a high ratio of his matches being less than two.

AGAIN. FUCK KOFI.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Apparently Dr. Phil and Kofi Kingston had a really good match in a Toronto house show a few months ago. I also liked the Kofi/Christian Smackdown match from 2010 and the Kofi/Ziggler Superstars match last year. Other than that, LOLWTF

EDIT: WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT, KOFI?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> honest question has kofi ever had a singles match over ***3/4 stars


No.

Three best Kofi matches I can think of:

vs. Christian Smackdown 2010
vs. Chris Jericho RAW 2009
vs. Dolph Ziggler Capitol Punishment


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Tug of war. I don't know anything anymore.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hopefully THE SHIELD match saves RAW once again.

This has been fucking BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Heard Orton/Rhodes was good? Yes? No? Maybe so?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Your typical run of the mill TV match with near falls thrown in. Went on too long for my liking & the finish was completely DUMB, but it depends completely on taste.

If you enjoy Orton's stuff the past few years, you'll enjoy the match.

AMBROSE vs Kane scheduled for Friday night, Smackdown is quickly becoming a must watch show once again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Another night, ANOTHER awesome match from The Shield. ****1/2*


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hell No/GOAT vs The Shield ***3/4 holy shit how awesome


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Reigns pinned the WWE champion clean. Injured or not, he pinned him clean. CLEAN. Jerry Lawler being a dumbass as usual - "Ryback was here all along!"

Honestly though, I laughed a ton tonight. Between Khali's dancing in place, and that secret admirer for Kaitlyn, LOLs all around.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Shield does it again. :mark:

★★★1/2.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shield/Cena and Team Hell No was good. Not as good as last week's Shield match, but still good. Better finish though and I :mark: for seeing Reins spear and pin Cena.

Rating: ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fucking Shield.

Ruining my fucking Top 100 John Cena Matches list. 

FUCK.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

A Randy Orton v. Cody Rhodes feud cannot happen. The impact of two out of the three most boring things on Earth colliding for a set period of time will cause ruptures in the space time continuum. Throw in Wade Barrett (making it three out of the three most boring things on Earth) and it will destroy every galaxy within minutes. Or just make a bunch of people somewhat sleepy.

---

Jack Swagger carried Kofi to a good match back in 2010.



THE DARK ANDRE said:


> The rest of the interview is just as interesting/entertaining, although it's nowhere near as funny as the interview they did with Paul London a couple of years back when he talked about his interactions with HHH, spending the last few months of his WWE tenure walking around arenas with a trident, the 'smile incident' before Vince got blown up in the limo, escapades with TBK and BENOIT in greasy diners, including one where they defended an attractive waitress from bell end customers before BENOIT encouraged London to chat up the waitress so he could fuck her while TBK and Benoit jerked off while watching in a closet :lmao


:mark: @ Kendrick and the Cake.

I heard London didn't even know they were going to do the limo explosion, and he said if he _did_ know, he wouldn't have smiled but instead would have laughed.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not a Cody Rhodes fan, Yeah?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea no love for Cody ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Does Yeah1993 like any current wrestler besides Mark Henry?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In all fairness .......

The only time I've really enjoyed Rhodes was during his "UNDASHING" phase in 2011. The whole "Phantom of the Opera" thing he had going there was great, and he was working with guys like Mysterio who could get a great match out of him nearly every single time. Fuck The Legacy for the most part, fuck pre and post undashing as a whole really. I find him mildly entertaining at times but I certainly don't think it's too much of a stretch for an individual to consider Rhodes to be boring.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah I agree his undashing gimmick was his peak. I hated him in legacy, those shit matches with dx still get me except the fca submission


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> No.
> 
> Three best Kofi matches I can think of:
> 
> ...


Last one leaves a lot to be desired. Sub it out with vs Drew McIntyre from Fatal Four Way and that's his only good singles matches. The one I mentioned being his best in my memory at this rate. Claudio carried him to something last year. It was decent at best, but made Claudio look like a god for doing the deed.

---------

Finally crammed the rest of WWE's shows from last week today. WOW @ how much fun all of them were. Even Main Event. Why was that getting crapped on? Henry squashed jobbers. If anything that is well worth seeing. Claudio/PAC & Barrett/BO were quality (loved the fun spots recreated in the US championship match in a WWE scene after being done years ago in Chikara) Smackdown was like really, really good. So good, even the divas match was upped on a level that was unusually watchable for them & the dames involved. I want more Smackdown's like that. Please. It'll make watching WWE...you know, fun again. Del Rio vs Swagger No DQ & Sheamus vs Show :mark: :mark: :mark:

I'm playing a BIG risk coming in here considering I haven't even watched RAW yet either. Son of a if I catch something...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll never understand the hard-on that WWE has for Alberto Del Rio. Now THAT'S boring taken to an entirely new stratosphere.

On a completely unrelated note, two nights ago I dreamt that DOLPH went face and worked a program with Mark Henry at Summerslam. When I woke up and realized that DOLPH was still heel while at the same time feuding with the likes of Dull Rio, it made me preeeeeeeety depressed. At least Swagger is there to cancel out SOME of Del Rio's awfulness, but unfortunately not most of it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Would it be unfair to declare THE SHIELD as Wrestler(s) of the Year thus far as we are now pretty much 1/3 of the way through 2013? 

DAT consistency :ass


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So was watching some old promos from the good old AE, and came across this:






Now there was also another part to this where if I remember correctly, Taker draws his own blood into a cup and gives it to Mideon (?) who then becomes a part of the Ministry of Darkness.

But anyway, the promo itself and the segment as a whole was awesome. I must've missed this when I was a kid, because I don't remember seeing it and had I, I probably would've been scared away from Taker (I was 5, almost 6 at the time). Taker could've truly been a mega heel in all of this had they really let this thing go to it's full potential. I suppose Taker's injuries would've put a stop to it anyway, but were the injuries the reason he joined with the McMahons? Or was that part of the plan the whole time, that the ministry and Taker were going to be nothing more than mere pawns in Vince's game against Austin? 

And it's also amazing that the same Taker who was part of that would be cutting these type of promos a mere 7 months later:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No more RAW talk so Cody can continue to post in here!  Haven't seen RAW myself either but spoilers don't bother me.

Did you see who I assigned you for the Yeah1993 Youtube project? I'm gonna stay true to my Tajiri watching at some point this week (girlfriend's coming back home from college so I'll be a little busy with work and her)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> No more RAW talk so Cody can continue to post in here!  Haven't seen RAW myself either but spoilers don't bother me.
> 
> Did you see who I assigned you for the Yeah1993 Youtube project? I'm gonna stay true to my Tajiri watching at some point this week (girlfriend's coming back home from college so I'll be a little busy with work and her)


I zoomed past until I saw your post b/c for some reason I knew you'd be the safe haven. 

Nah, I haven't. Afraid - yes, AFRAID - to go pages back to look. So let me know right now, mang. 

I did a tiny bit on Billy Kidman last night before I tried for some sleep. Got the ol juices running.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I like Del Rio in the ring. I really do. But damn if he wasn't shoved down our throats forever. Rumble win, couldn't win the WHC, though he might have if Edge hadn't been forced to retire and Christian got the sympathy run, then Christian/Orton happened. Then Del Rio won MITB, dropped the title in his only defense. The face turn was good for a bit, but he's so cheesy now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Not a Cody Rhodes fan, Yeah?


Nah, he's really vanilla and average and whenever he starts showing me something he goes back to boring within a month and stays that way for over a year. When has Cody really been THAT impressive a worker? Some Rey matches in 2010/2011 were good and not all of them were Mysterio carries and he was good in the SummerSlam tag v. DX. I'll give him that. Other than that he's been years of putting me to sleep. I'm really curious why people actually LIKE Rhodes tbh.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Does Yeah1993 like any current wrestler besides Mark Henry?


Sheamus, Bryan, the Big Show, Cesaro, CM Punk, the Shield guys, Rey if he counts, Christian, Alberto, Cena when he's not holding a mic, McIntyre, Swagger, Jericho if he counts, Titus Motherfuckin' O'Neil, Sandow, Evan Bourne, Regal if he counts, Ziggler to SOME degree, I kinda like the Colons and Usos, the part-timers like Taker and Lesnar if they count, etc. I bet if I watched NXT there'd be more dudes I like. Hell I even appreciate Santino and Brodus Clay for for what they are. I do LIKE Orton, fwiw. Just....not right now. He hasn't interested me in a long, long time. 

A lot of the reason I don't watch current WWE is because the idiots in the back aren't doing anything well with the right people. I'm not going to say 'oh I can book this and run the show better', but they give Cesaro a yodelling gimmick, push Ryback who had lost every match he's had on PPV for the last six months, make SuperStars about a giant/Canadian woman/midget comedy act, let the part-timers have the main event of PPVs......why do most of that? If I turn on the TV and see most of my favourite guys getting the shaft while Wade Barrett, Kofi Kingston and the Miz get to work a twelve minute match for a title, well fuck you. I will not watch your product. 



HayleySabin said:


> Why was that getting crapped on? Henry squashed jobbers.


Uhhh, except for this.....I'm going to watch this.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I zoomed past until I saw your post b/c for some reason I knew you'd be the safe haven.
> 
> Nah, I haven't. Afraid - yes, AFRAID - to go pages back to look. So let me know right now, mang.
> 
> I did a tiny bit on Billy Kidman last night before I tried for some sleep. Got the ol juices running.


I gave you A-TRAIN aka the other 5 or 6 different variations of names he's went by.  Maybe you'll uncover some manly tv gems.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm playing a BIG risk coming in here considering I haven't even watched RAW yet either. Son of a if I catch something...


only thing i've caught from raw is aids which is why i haven't watched in many many months.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cody's one of the guys who's been pegged 67 different times as the future of the company, but if that's truly the case he needs to upgrade his offense. I mean, I love the disaster kick as much as anyone & the CrossRhodes looks fancy and all, but it doesn't have the lasting effect of an RKO or GTS or Pedigree, etc.

I've always liked Cody because he seems to shy away from the basic WWE style match a lot and kinda gives me an indy vibe when I watch him. Idk, maybe that makes sense to someone. His matches with Rey were always fun & he's had good singles encounters with Orton and... well I can't think of anything else.  Love the DX tags though.

EDIT: Oh wait! Remember a good match with Sheamus on Smackdown last year while he was IC Champ.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Uhhh, except for this.....I'm going to watch this.


12 minutes of THAT'S WHAT I DO.

oh, and I'm a Cody Rhodes fan. Why? Maybe first name basis breeds sticking together. Always liked him. His 2011 rocked thanks to myself being the biggest mark around for the "Dashingly Demented" gimmick. Promos were 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I gave you A-TRAIN aka the other 5 or 6 different variations of names he's went by.  Maybe you'll uncover some manly tv gems.


HOLY CRAP YES.

More of an excuse to watch and report on the series vs KANE in 2001 + the bossy matches vs Sheamus last year. I'm so going down the path when he teamed with Scotty 2 Hotty too. Zoo Crew memories.



bigbuxxx said:


> only thing i've caught from raw is aids which is why i haven't watched in many many months.


:lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I like cody, he's got that old school worker type feel to him. He"s had some decent bouts 
In his career the series with Rey and that street fight with orton on smack down was ok. I remember when ppl said he was the next big thing with ziggler


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This Youtube thing is gettin me all giddy. haha. Looking forward to hearing about the awesomeness from GIANT BERNARD and hopefully digging up some great cruiserweight sprints from the THE JAPANESE BUZZSAW.

On a completely random note, The Best of In Your House dvd is released today. (Y) Certainly gonna pick up that blu ray sometime, even if it only is for 4 or 5 matches...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody throw a name at me that ISN'T THE FUCKING ROCK for this Youtube shit.

Think I can watch 4 or 5 random matches before I fall asleep for the night, so throw it at me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> This Youtube thing is gettin me all giddy. haha. Looking forward to hearing about the awesomeness from GIANT BERNARD and hopefully digging up some great cruiserweight sprints from the THE JAPANESE BUZZSAW.
> 
> On a completely random note, The Best of In Your House dvd is released today. (Y) Certainly gonna pick up that blu ray sometime, even if it only is for 4 or 5 matches...


I thought about chucking a NJPW match in there for some kicks. Keep an eye out for that. _(I'll try and get some done later tonight in-between working through my Joshi fix. Downloaded more SHINE shows last night. Jessicka Havok _:mark

Ha. That's why I won't purchase it. Disappointed in how I owned so many put on the set. I was expecting way, way more gems to be added. Where was Helmsley vs Duke Drose? WHERE?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Somebody throw a name at me that ISN'T THE FUCKING ROCK for this Youtube shit.
> 
> Think I can watch 4 or 5 random matches before I fall asleep for the night, so throw it at me.


JAMIE NOBLE

The guy needs more love, so enjoy. <3



HayleySabin said:


> I thought about chucking a NJPW match in there for some kicks. Keep an eye out for that. _(I'll try and get some done later tonight in-between working through my Joshi fix. Downloaded more SHINE shows last night. Jessicka Havok _:mark
> 
> Ha. That's why I won't purchase it. Disappointed in how I owned so many put on the set. I was expecting way, way more gems to be added. Where was Helmsley vs Duke Drose? WHERE?


Hahaha. Duke The Dumpster on a dvd set, NO CHANCE! (cue the music) I'll own it for Shawn/Diesel, Austin/Bret, the Final Four match, and something else I can't remember right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> JAMIE NOBLE
> 
> The guy needs more love, so enjoy. <3
> 
> ...


NOBLE~! _(shill x2)_

Final Four match. Dammit. That's nearly worth the price right there. 

oh, and I almost said Helmsley vs FATU instead. WWE could have made a difference with that choice.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I heard London didn't even know they were going to do the limo explosion, and he said if he _did_ know, he wouldn't have smiled but instead would have laughed.


Yeah that's what he said in the interview. He asked the 'directors' what his motivation was for being sad, but they wouldn't tell him. Apparently they had to re-shoot the scene a few times because his smiling before Vince power walked over to him, "craned his neck over like a vulture, stared at him" and asked why he was smiling. London then told him that he was happy because he didn't know what was going on and was excited :lmao

Some other corkers from London:

Shouting "Hey, Blade III sucked! What are you gonna go about it?" at HHH while wielding a plastic trident and laughing.

On his real life feud with Matt Hardy: "It's all down to jealousy. He realized that he didn't have the goods, that women just didn't like him, and that I was a sincere person who had charm, who attracted females, and he became jealous."

Possibly exaggerated stories but they're funny none the less.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*ECW Hardcore Heaven 200
*Yoshihiro Tajiri vs. Steve Corino

_You type in 'Yoshihiro Tajiri' on YouTube and this is the first full match that pops up. HOLY SHIT IT'S AWESOME. Tajiri is super over here and Corino is super hated. What happens in this match, you ask? Oh not much, Corino just gets the absolute PISS kicked out of him while losing buckets of blood in the process. Match can't be longer than ten minutes and you get two table spots, green mist, huge amounts of blood loss, and the awesomeness that is Yoshihiro Tajiri. Yeah, this shit's off to a great start._​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

checked out cody/rey mania 27 again **** fun match, he got some others gems out there ill check out night fellas


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jamie Noble vs Rey Mysterio (2/23/03)

Yeah so this is from the Sunday Night Heat before No Way Out 2003. Rock vs Hogan II, remember that little piece of awfulness? Why do I think this is going to be better than most of what was on that show for the most part? Anyways, chain wrasslin’ to start us off with some near falls and a slow referee count until Rey decides to take it to the outside with a diving hurricarana that was pretty fucking sweet. Diving cross body attempt leads to a sick Noble dropkick as the commentators yak on about Rock-Hogan II some more. SICK gutbuster by noble as he takes control of Rey with a hammer lock. Rey sets up for 619 but Noble decks him, nice little control segment for this one until Rey finds an opening and gains some speed. Mysterio gets a lot of air on a springboard crossbody and shoots an incredibly nice pinfall attempt. Electric chair into a jackknife cover for Noble leads to a SICK enzugiri from Rey. 619 + werbomb reversal into a standing hurricarana gets Mysterio the win as Taz fuckng rambles on more about Rock-Hogan II. That’s pretty sad considering that this match was of higher quality than most of the contests on the show itself despite being around 5 minutes long. I said SICK a lot in this review. YEP.


Jamie Noble vs Spike Dudley (6/27/04)

Another HEAT match we have here except this one is pre Great American Bash 2004, why do I think that yet again this is going to be better than most of the actual card? Noble rockin’ confederacy tights and Spike rockin’ camo pants just screams good old fashioned southern wrasslin’ to me for some reason. Noble showing his strength with the power slam while at the same time slowing things down with a few kicks and elbows and such (while this is going on, Taz and Cole try to sell the PPV to you like it’s a good idea or something). Noble heelin’ it up screaming “COME ON BOY!” which leads to a nice near fall by Spike who almost catches Noble on this one. Noble bumps outside of the ring which is perhaps Spike’s first offensive move of the entire match, which leads to even more Noble heelishness and a tigerbomb attempt. Dudley dog ends this despite Noble being on offense for literally 95 percent of the match which is kind of WTFISH. This was fairly below average quality as I’m not a fan of Spike working with anybody who’s not huge or not Rey Mysterio.


Jamie Noble vs Kane (6/30/08)

Why the fuck do I not see this ending well at all? Noble’s taking this match to try and impress some bitch and he put himself into a pretty rough fucking spot. SUICIDE DIVE BY NOBLE TAKES KANE OUT HOLY SHIT. Kane sits up and shit starts to go to fucking hell with Kane dismantling the fuck out of Noble on the announce table, maiming the poor motherfucker with a few stiff looking shots. A bell never rang so this wasn’t even an official match, okay then.


Jamie Noble vs Nunzio (Um. In 2008 before Wrestlemania XXIV sometime… An ECW Match)

Jamie Noble highlight video plays pre match with “Courtesy of Jamie Noble” written in the corner, while Noble looks on with a smug smile on his face, oh the fucking hilarity. Heel beatdown by Noble that starts with a big powerslam until Noble slows shit the fuck down with sporadic comeback attempts by Nunzio with nothing substantial coming from him AT ALL. Noble chops the shit out of Nunzio and hits him with the gutbuster for the win. This was essentially Jamie Noble squashing the fuck out of Nunzio for four minutes, which is something I would have never expected… EVER. Just a squash out of nowhere, and not a good one at that, just kind of there again.


Jamie Noble vs Bryan Danielson (Velocity Sometime before the Royal Rumble in 2003)

Okay so this automatically HAS to be better than everything else that I’ve watched so far, am I right? It’s fucking Bryan Danielson Vs fucking Jamie Noble with a 7 and a half minute runtime on the video, should be at least HALF interesting. Who the fuck is commentating with Josh Matthews here, as he’s more incoherent than Booker fucking T at this point, oh it’s Ernest Miller (fantastic…). So the wrestling here is looking really fucking good, Bryan is crisp as a strip of overcooked bacon and Noble is certainly no slouch at all here as he busts out a brilliant looking northern lights suplex for the two count. Danielson says “lolfuckthis” and busts out some stiff looking kicks to the legs and torso of Noble. Suplexes galore from Noble, as he busts out a very excellent belly to back suplex, which leads to some great selling by the young Danielson who can do a masterful bridge at this point. European uppercuts from Danielson leads off a very solid babyface comeback against Noble, which includes corner strikes and one of the stiffest elbow shots I think I have ever seen, damn. Excellent transitions at the end of the match from tiger bomb to bridged german suplex to the neckbreaker finish, all nicely wraps up this 7 minute match as being a pretty fucking great contest. Danielson did a fantastic job showing his athleticism off In there while at the same time crafting a good babyface performance, as at the same time Noble was solid as always matching Bryan’s offense with his good heel control segment. A good match equals a WATCH recommendation for me.

The first four matches that came up for me, not a great indicator of Noble's talent at all, although some of his pre match interview stuff was comedic fucking GOLD such as the "courtesy of Jamie Noble" highlight video :lol.
​


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

UnDashing Cody Rhodes was f'n awesome.

So is Jamie Noble. Is there a good Noble vs. Finlay match anywhere?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I know it's true, but for some reason I have a hard time believing Jamie Noble is a former ROH Champion.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena&Tean Hell No/ Shield- ***1/2


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Since I've seen Punk/Hardy at SummerSlam, I'm going to pile on NOC and the steel cage match.

This is for *Yeah1993* and/or *Desecration*, any recs for David Von Erich matches?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Randy Orton v Cody Rhodes - Raw (4/29/13)*
Haven't watched enough Orton recently to know if this is something he does regularly now but he walked around playing to the crowd after almost every move he hit and I really disliked it. I guess it's supposed to make him look like a badass or something but it just came across as a lack of urgency to me and made Cody look like even less of a threat than he already is. Yeah I know this was just an Orton showcase but still, it's stuff like this that makes me think Randy isn't a very good babyface worker. They did some nice spots though. The Disaster Kick was a sweet transition spot, the Cross Rhodes nearfall was great, and the finish was cool. Solid TV match, nothing more.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy - Steel Cage/Loser Leaves WWE for the World Heavyweight Championship Smackdown (2009) ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fandango said:


> I know it's true, but for some reason I have a hard time believing Jamie Noble is a former ROH Champion.


Go watch his matches and you'll realize this is a tad absurd.

---------

Orton vs Rhodes was a terrible match tonight. Ugh. Orton was channeling Rock level energy in that one. Only match worth seeing tonight was Cena/Hell No vs Shield. Del Rio vs Cesaro was decent. I'll give it that. Rest of RAW: yep, AIDS inducing.

---------

:mark: @ the Yeah1993 inspired reviews up in this piece. NOBLE & TAJIRI. _(I'm so dying to watch the Tajiri vs Corino match again right now.)_


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro/Del Rio was good. Haven't watched the Shield match yet and skipped Dolph/Kofi but tonight's Raw was definitely heavy on the wrestling. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which is weird considering this was like the worst RAW of the entire year. Heavy on the wrestling...and Pizza distribution plugs. Oh and Dance contest & tug-o-wars. 

what was this crap?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm not really paying attention to the show as a whole. Just skipping to the matches and segments I give a shit about. 

:lmao @ the hat somebody gave Kaitlyn

HHH, Brock and Heyman not being on the show (N) Fuck the feud I guess, just hoping for a good match at Extreme Rules.

Ladder match for the WHC triple threat, hopefully that ends up being a ton of fun as opposed to a shitty spotfest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smart move. It was a chore to get through until Cena came out for the main event.  _(and last week had so many fun/really good matches too.)_

I know right? WWE hyped up as if Brock & HHH would come out. Instead we got a weak video. Only added to the meh nature of the night.

I'll have some faith. All three are familiar with a ladder so it could hopefully be pretty good. I fear for the bumps taken by all three men. They're prime _(and insane)_ when it comes to bumps. Not just Ziggler. Swagger takes the stiffest shots to the face every single match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Dolph will inevitably take an insane bump. Expecting armbreaker and ankle lock spots w/LADDERS which could be nifty. 

Does Cena/Ryback have a stip yet? And how did Cena look in the main event injury wise?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Either he sold majestically or he was totally hurt. He wasn't in the match much due to Danielson & Kane thinking they couldn't rely on him via showing pain in the start of the match. Cena got a hot tag at the very end & after some moves he was in pain again. I'd get more detailed, but I figured you'll watch and see it for yourself.

oh and no stip for Cena vs Ryback yet.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah I'll watch it tomorrow. Achilles tendon ain't nothin to fuck around with if he's seriously hurt. No idea what to expect from Cena/Ryback.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good match overall. Which is to be expected. The Cena story addition added a new wrinkle to it so it separated itself from previous Shield 6 man tags.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Seriously impressive that The Shield have had 6 matches and all of them have been good.

Would be sweet if Ambrose goes over Kane on this week's Smackdown. He should. Two singles losses in a row wouldn't sit too well with me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think a match against Kane should be a lock for Ambrose. Oh, forgot Kane had a good character trait shown during the six man tonight. Again, details you'll notice once you watch. I said it as I can see it coming into play for the match on Smackdown. Kane is PISSED.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I love how watching random wrestling on youtube has become a "Yeah1993" thing.  


Tajiri v. Corino is really great, yeah. Tajiri was the best wrestler in the US in 2000.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 it is. 

I'd like to take credit for it, but can't seeing how Craig asked to do it first. Thus officially making it your coined thingy & him inspiring it. That's how it works.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I need a wrestler to "Yeah1993" right now b/c I am in a wrestling mood. I'm thinking Brian Christopher or Mike Enos. Someone else? Any suggestions? Cody, you're online, right? WHO'VE YA GOT!?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Finished the WCCW doc and I believe Sabin said it, it's very emotionally draining. However I found it fantastic that the heart of WCCW, heavy yet impactful, can become immortal.

Think I'll check out the AWA doc next. Punk/Hardy at NOC can wait.


@ Yeah
Das Wunderkind or Tugboat


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I need a wrestler to "Yeah1993" right now b/c I am in a wrestling mood. I'm thinking Brian Christopher or Mike Enos. Someone else? Any suggestions? Cody, you're online, right? WHO'VE YA GOT!?


Mike Enos. Damn, that's a good pick.

For some reason Essa Rios popped up. Probably b/c I was marking for his match against Low Ki on Metal in like 2001 earlier. To keep with the spirit of a FATTY - how about Viscera/Big Daddy V? 8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've actually kind of always wanted to look more at Alex Wright since he's a talented guy. Typhoon/Tugboat/Whatever Other PHATASS Name He Went By would be really cool to. 

Oh shit I would be SOOOOO willing to watch some Viscera. I really have no idea whether he was good or not because I have not seen a Viscera match in goddamn ages.

SO MANY WRESTLERS. 

Ahhhh fuck it I'm doing Mike Enos. See you in umpteen minutes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wonder if this entails the obligatory Chris Jericho match from 9/22 or 9/23 circa '96. Dunno since that's fairly popular for him. _(sheesh, with us at least)_ If you throw in a Beverly Brothers match as a hidden gem, I'll love you. Long time. Or longer time for the sake of stating the obvious.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Damn right Wunderkind's underrated, though I do need to refresh my memory :side:

I was actually going to toss in both of the Natural Disasters but went with Tugboat/Typhoon/Storm Trooper.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Would I be lame I threw in Shockmaster even though he's the cliche of the wrestlecrap world?

shoot. storm trooper = shockmaster. Read, Cody. Read.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Shockmaster! I forgot his name, that's why I put storm trooper.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The gimmick sure stood the test of time.

I should probably be watching A-Train matches right now. Think a couple of squashes on Velocity vs Shannon Moore & Shoichi Funaki call my name.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm probably in the minority side of folks who actually like Moore. Can't really conjure up decent matches in the 'E since he was usually in squashes or 3 minute cruiserweight matches.


Edit: Shockphoon busting his ass is immortal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never disliked him but can't say I was ever "a fan". He did have some legit tags with Jimmy Wang Yang though. I was always much more a Helms guy than Moore. Or just about all the rest from the OMEGA crew.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Ah yes, I remember he teamed with him. Might have to seek those matches out.

YES ON HELMS! I disliked his return on WWECW and I'm kind of drawing a blank during his post Hurricane days, but HUGE Helms mark here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They're good stuff. Specifically - or probably only - vs Morrison & Miz.

Dug his work on WWECW vs Burchill. That was a fun program. Helms on all levels of his career is on point for me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I didn't catch Raw last night, but is the Shield/CenaHellNo match worth checking out? Shield keeping up their impressive feat of having a good match every time they're out there? I'm sure it is.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

*@Sabin*
Youtube/Dailymotion, here I come! (Later, watching AWA doc)

Against Burchill? How foolish of me to ignore.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed. Watch it. Enjoy the interesting storytelling throughout.

Rollins taunts more people mid-match again. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mike Enos v. Mike Tolbert (WorldWide June 1998, I think)
This was slow and weird. Tolbert had some nice shots, but otherwise looked kind of clueless. Dead-eye stare selling, lifting himself up on Enos's bearhug really awkwardly, making comebacks at stupid times, etc. Enos always has really good looking offense and pieces matches together the way I like them, but Tolbert stunk most of this up and Enos couldn't totally carry him. I will not be looking up a bunch of Mike Tolbert any time soon.

Mike Enos v. Bill Goldberg (Thunder 4/22/98)
I was ready for a complete squash but Enos starts by firing at Goldberg to get the upperhand. Goldy "Hulks" that shit and does this really swift and smooth looking leg-grapevine takedown thing. Dude is more and more surprisingly spry every time I see him. Goldberg no-sells another powerslam which is a little annoying but ultimately not the worst thing ever. One spear and jackhammer later and yeah, we're done. Fun match. I am definitely looking up a bunch of Goldberg sometime soon. Might actually find an entertaining Mike Tolbert match in there somewhere.

Mike Enos v. Chavo Guerrero Jr. (Nitro 8/26/96)
Didn't know Chavo was a good shine wrestler. Basically a Mexican poor man's Ricky Morton, but who don't love a Mexican poor man's Ricky Morton? Well, most people, apparently. Well fuck you, I like Mexican poor man's Ricky Morton and he, in fact, throws a really nice drop kick. SO THERE! This was mostly about Enos pulling off decently big moves and Chavo not staying down. Enos gets all frustrated like 'COME ON' 'THAT'S IT!' [ooh baby], and there's a really unique transition spot here. I don't really know how to describe it or whether it was even planned. Enos goes for a powerbomb and Chavo seemed to kick Enos in the head on the way up. Then Enos 'bombs' Chavo on his own leg, crippling himself. Again, who knows if that was planned or not, but if not it was a pretty genius improv by Mike Enos. Chavo has the figure-four and Enos 'accidentally' thumbs the ref in the eye. Blind ref doesn't catch that Enos has swapped with his partner Dick Slater, who Chavo pins in a second anyway. Neat match. 

Mike Enos v. Chris Benoit (WCWSN Night Before Fall Brawl 1999)
These two have a great PPV match so I was looking forward to this 3 minutes. This was a US Title match and sweet paddle pop on a fucking stick it was a hell of a sprint. I said Enos always has good offense (somewhere.....didn't I?) and he and Benoit rough the crap out of each other in the collar-elbow tie-up. Enos throws blows like a madman to shockingly enormous boos. It was probably canned. Benoit fires back and Enos sells the chops really fucking awesomely ('awesomely'?, how is that not underlined?); he falls down HARD on the big ones and doesn't make the selling of it seem silly. It's a big burly dude flying downward and BOINGING when someone simply throws their hand into his chest. That, by all means, should look ridiculous, but it doesn't because Mike Fucking Enos. Enos tries to create space but Benoit's too busy throwing Enos into things to give shit about his needs. So yeah, what were the DQ rules in WCW around this time? Enos uses the US belt a few times on the outside, throws it into the ring and the ref does nothing. What have I been missing? Whatever, this was pretty sweet. 

Mike Enos v. Chris Benoit (Nitro 7/14/97)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enos v. Benoit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am removed from another one of their matches and this one didn't disappoint either. Benoit didn't get much offense in here but man he looked to be working a lot stiffer in 97 than in 99. His chops looked like they'd rip a nipple off. Enos gets to control most of this and I've said whatever about his offense looking good and hard, yet I never mention(ed) how he often has something neat in his arsenal that he doesn't bring up a ton. I've never seen the piledriver he used here. It was a reverse tombstone where he jumped and it looked badass and violent. Maybe it's because he had Benoit up in a 'regular' piledriver position and I wasn't expecting this weird reverse-tombstone, but it took me aback and it seemed like the kind of move that could injure really easily. Benoit's quick-as-hell crossface win comebacks are oddly satisfying and I love this Benoit/Enos match-up right now.


--------------------------------------
I'm not done with Enos yet. I found Enos v Eddy, DDP, Luger, Duggan and all sound really cool. I will come back to Enos one day.

I can't FUCKING believe I didn't think of this but whenever next I do this I will be doing WCW La Parka matches. Why the fuck did that not come to mind? What the fuck, me?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Almost 99% sure the Enos "bombing" Chavo on his own knee spot was intended. iirc he does the same exact thing vs Jericho in the match I dropped the page back. Guess it is some sort of genius Enos callback he used.

La Parka matches. Son of a. That prompted me to immediately think of Super Calo matches too. Shoot. Instead I mentioned Essa Rios. WHY?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Indeed. Watch it. Enjoy the interesting storytelling throughout.
> 
> Rollins taunts more people mid-match again. :mark:


Thanks Cody.

And Rollins taunting again?! Sweeeet.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Almost 99% sure the Enos "bombing" Chavo on his own knee spot was intended. iirc he does the same exact thing vs Jericho in the match I dropped the page back. Guess it is some sort of genius Enos callback he used.


Aw shit you're right I think he did. Well it looked awesome here and totally uncooperative.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He gives John-boy "what for" and it's so bossy.

EDIT ~ thought that was key. I loved how I was wondering when the date for the Chavo match was till I wised up and actually noticed you put it down. I'm tired.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

pretty sure the opening of Raw gave me something like a brain tumor.

as did the ending of Rhodes/Orton :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know, I'm a Jerry Lawler guy. But to have to hear his "omg that was an amazing RKO counter" every single time the obvious spot happens I'm forced to want to perform psychical harm towards something. He's only doing his job though. I still love him. It's too bad WWE can come off like the worst cliched crap though. Quit forcing the garbage on me WWE. Look at last week. It was FUN for the majority.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

What do you guys think of Cm Punk and Daniel Bryan matches from early to mid 2012. As both a Punk and Bryan fan, both guys in the ring just tore the place up during their feud. Over the Limit is pure wrestling and rightly is considered a great match. Their MITB match is very underrated imo, Yes AJ getting involved is a bit of letdown but damn Punk and Bryan beat the living crap out of each other made for a great match and Bryan was made to look legit threat to Punk. Their Champions vs Champions matches on Raw and Smackdown are great Tv matches apart from all the run ins. The triple Threat with Kane (forgot the PPV it was on)was a good match too.

I'd like to see a Heel Punks vs face Bryan feud somewhere down the line for WWE title. A better build up to their matches instead of that AJ rubbish back during their first feud.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Best part of Raw so far was SHIELD promo which to be fair wasn't great but it's them so it's acceptable.

& KING ORDERING A PIZZA. 

DEM SPONSORS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw opens with Del Rio's music playing. I was tempted to just stop it right there and take the dogs for a walk instead.

Then I realised it was RICARDO wrestling. So I kept watching. Ricardo Vs ZEB Vs Big E. Really is something when you know you are likely to enjoy the match with the sidekicks more than the actual WHC triple threat at the PPV. This was boat loads of fun. Ricardo throwing the bucket at Big E was hilarious.

Cena brings out some make a wish kids. I swear they do this stuff just to make Cena NOT get booed out of the fucking building.

Roborton (robot + orton) Vs the mustache. I think Cody is here somewhere too. I skip it. Don't care. Bland Vs Bland. Orton wins. Whatever. I hope the mustache breaks up with Cody and goes singles. He's just gonna keep losing if he sticks with the guy. 

Orton: I'VE NEVER FELT SO EXTREME 

*hits an RKO*

Me: Oh how extreme his finishing move. I am amazed by the extremeness of his extreme finisher. I am not being sarcastic in any way. Honest. Now to go watch the best of Chavo Guerrero Jr. Well that didn't take long.

Bella Twins. Anyone else find it weird that only one of them got new boobs? Seems like a twin thing to do. Maybe they did it to avoid being mistaken for each other as much?

Oh wow a shitty divas reality series. Just what TV needs.

Oh wow a shitty divas match. Just what TV needs.

THE SHIELD. Fuck me look at the size of that security guard. Makes Reigns look small. WWE should hire him. Anyway. THE SHIELD. Greatest thing going today. Can't wait to see what's next for them. Tag titles right?

:lmao 3MB? Ambrose's reaction to them is amazing :lmao. TEAM HELL NO. Tag titles match needs to be a street fight/falls count anywhere so they can brawl all over the place and really make things chaotic and shit. Could be fucking awesome. :lmao Team Hell No destroy 3MB too. Poor guys. Well poor Drew. The rest deserve it. 

:lmao what the fuck was that Cena/Ryback backstage thing? Talk about random, pointless and short.

HAVE YOU TRIED THIS PIZZA THAT WE ARE BEING PAID TO TALK ABOUT? LAWLER JUST PLACED AN ORDER! WHERE IS IT? LET'S TRACK IT! OMG OMG OMG OMG! I HOPE IT GETS DELIVERED DURING THE SHOW.

Dolph! Vs Kofi? Fuck this shit. Fuck it with Craig's cactus that he likes to fuck things with. Kofi. What a useless cunt. Wanna kill a title? Put it on Kofi!

Kaitlyn Vs AJ soon. Didn't this just happen? Oh yeah, on NXT. SO I guess that doesn't count. :lmao at Dolph's "I didn't" when the present arrives and she thinks its for her. Urgh, secret admirer angle? Better not be Hornswoggle or some bullshit. Cody? They did start doing something with them. And then stopped. I don't care actually.

TLC SHIELD/HELL NO & RYBACK rematch! Not a TLC match of course, but a rematch from the TLC PPV. Oh wait Ryback said no.

UPDATE ON LAWLER'S PIZZA! I HOPE ITS THE MAIN EVENT. LOL THEY GAVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE. LIKE, HALF THE CROWD. HOW BIG WAS THIS PIZZA?

Swagger. Wonder who he's going to face. Kofi already had a match so that billion match series can't be resumed tonight. Zack Ryder maybe? That would be a pointless shitty match in a lame attempt to build Swagger up for the WHC match, so sounds about right doesn't it? :lmao it fucking IS Zack Ryder! Swear on my money (the one thing I love) that I guessed it was Zack before he came out. Oh man. What the fuck is wrong with WWE? I WAS TAKING THE PISS. And now you are.

HENRY WITH... A TUG OF WAR ROPE? Henry Vs Sheamus Tug of War match? I hope so!

Ryback leaves. Best thing he's done in a while.

HENRY. Bah, not Sheamus. But HENRY in a power display is always fun. Oh shit... Tensai? Should be interesting. Or not. Tensai lost. SIGN BIG Z, WWE. He's retired from Strongman now. HENRY VS BIG Z = RATINGS. Brodus next for the tug of war. Should have had both against Henry at the same time. 2 on 1 tug of war... sounds dirty. Cole says he's a tug of war fan. No surprise there.

SHEAMUS. Let me guess... FELLA FELLA FELLA IRISH REFERENCE FELLA FELLA FELLA FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FELLA FELLA FELLA. Close enough. Yey HENRY VS SHEAMUS TUG OF WAR. Sheamus better not win this. Would be retarded. I hope the rope snaps. :lmao Sheamus let go. IRISH WORD KICK! Can't wait for their match. Hope it gets a stip, and something good. Potential MOTN along with whatever match Shield have.

Shield Vs Team Hell No handicap match :mark:. 

Wonder what Vickie asked Brad to do. He didn't look happy. Probably something sexual then.

BRADEN WALKER REFERENCE. CENA IS TEH COOLEST AND TEH FUNNIEST. He's in the main event with Team Hell No now.

Del Rio match. Yawn. So his opponent? Cesaro? Oh come on. What happened to Cesaro? First he starts making funny noies to the ring then he loses his title to fucking KOFI and then gets jobbed out to everyone. 

Oh yeah, Del Rio gets to pick the ER match stip now doesn't he since Ricardo won? No doubt something shit. Ladder match? All 3 guys have won a MITB ladder match so I guess it kinda makes sense. Adds SOME interest to the match at least, and god knows it needed some.

Fandango Vs Khali in a dance contest? Think I'll rewatch that Best of Chavo Guerrero Jr stuff again. Watched it. Fandango is still making his entrance. Why have they got a guy who can barely fucking WALK in a dance contest? I mean... why? Are they trying to break his knees?

MAIN EVENT TIME. SHIELD VS TEAM HELL NO. And that Cena guy. So let me guess... Ryback will show up despite leaving and will battle with Cena to the back or something, leaving Team Hell No in a handicap situation where Shield will get the win and destroy them and then challenge them for the belts at ER or something? 

Bryan and Ambrose were both fucking AWESOME in this. Ambrose also takes what might be the most MANLY uppercut from Kane ever. Cena is a moron. Looks confused every time Kane and Bryan don't tag him in. DUH CENA INJURED THEY KNOW WANT TAG HIM IN OR THEY MIGHT LOSE. Dumbfuck.

Another great Shield match to add to their growing list of awesomeness. OH SHIT CENA TAKES THE PIN. No Ryback either. Oh wait there he is. Guess he'll attack Cena after the match now? Or just stare from the ramp.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

raw made me want to kill myself till the main event

EDIT: Cena got pinned? Holy fucknoodles. Awesome.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Punk leaving was almost a blessing in disguise. I stopped watching live so I can pretty much fast-forward through everything that's not Shield/Hell No.

Ryback speaks? FF! Cena cornballs? FF! Orton wrestles a TV match? FF! Dolph/Kofi #8684359? FF! Divas do anything? FF! Fandango dance contest? FFS!

Makes things much more enjoyable.

Shield/Hell No is literally the only thing on Raw that I'm interested in.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 13th December 2004 - Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho*

It's a rematch of the week before, and the final Evolution tag of this project. Benoit and HHH start it off with some strong right hands and chops. All four then exchange tags before Evolution get on top and begin to work on Jericho's back with big irish whips into the turnbuckle, and submissions aimed at the back. Jericho fights back with a clothesline before taking Flair out on the apron. Flair gets pissed and tries to attack, but HHH restrains him as Raw cuts to break.

When we return, Benoit is taking out HHH with triple Germans, but misses with his headbutt off the top rope. Batista gets the tag and gets vicious on Benoit, before HHH returns and picks the bones. Evolution now work on Benoit's back, with hard shots and HHH snaps an abdominal stretch on Benoit. The crowd is hot and begging Benoit to escape and make the tag. HHH goes to the top rope, which of course never ends well and Benoit is able to counter and tag Jericho in. Jericho counters Batista's spinebuster attempt into a roll-up, before escaping the Batista Bomb and hitting an enziguri. Y2J then takes out HHH and Flair on the outside as Benoit gets the tag and connects with the diving headbutt. He locks Batista in the Sharpshooter before HHH tries to intervene and gets locked in the Crossface. Batista then pulls Benoit off and hits a big spinebuster for the victory.

Another good Evolution tag match. The dynamic throughout was fun as this was the night a decision was going to be made concerning the vacant World Title. HHH stopping Flair from disqualifying Evolution because he wanted to win and get the upper hand was great and fun to see in a TV tag match. Good babyface performances for Benoit and Jericho, who again worked well together. A much better match than the one these four had the week before.

****1/4*

*New Year's Revolution 2005 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Batista vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho (World Heavyweight Championship)*

So now it's time for the GOAT Chamber match (or is it?). The World Title is vacant, and HBK is the special referee. The amount of starpower in this match is pretty ridiculous, when you look at the six guys involved, and with HBK as the ref and Flair at ringside, this has to be one of the most star studded matches ever, at least post-Attitude era. Anyway, Benoit and Jericho start us off with probably the best opening sequence in all the Chamber matches. They basically work a mini-match, and it's really awesome. Each countering the others submission attempts, before Benoit hits a big Superplex off the top rope. Also, how many times has Jericho opened a chamber match? Seems like a lot. Anyway, cue the arrival of HHH as he takes advantage of both me being laid out after the Superplex. After ramming Benoit into the turnbuckle a few times, HHH attempts to pedigree Jericho but gets backdropped onto the steel with huge impact. Jericho then slams him again. Edge then arrives and begins Spearing everyone in each corner of the ring. Edge catapaults Jericho into the steel, before Benoit attempts to lock the Crossface on him. A few near falls go by before almost everyone is busted open and Orton arrives, and goes straight after HHH. With Orton's focus solely on The Game, Benoit takes advantage and locks him in a screwy-looking Crossface. HHH at his maniacal best then taunts and laughs at Orton while he's locked in the hold, before Benoit lets him go and locks HHH in the Sharpshooter, before getting hit with an RKO. Edge then lines up Orton for a Spear but hits HBK instead. He covers Orton after another Spear, but there's no ref and Edge is pissed. He manhandles HBK, before getting hit with Sweet Chin Music. Jericho follows up with a Lionsault and Edge is gone.

HHH then attempts a Pedigree on Jericho, but Benoit arrives and hits a set of German suplexes, before a crazy diving headbutt off the top of a chamber pod. HHH is then locked into the Walls of Jericho and the Crossface at the same time, before Batista arrives to save him after that damn referee on the outside took what felt like a year to get the pod unlocked. HHH inadvertently ended up looking pretty heroic not tapping to the submission tandem. Batista begins his best 'Goldberg at Summerslam 2003' impression by taking everyone out (bar HHH of course), and ends his rampage with a huge spinebuster on Orton before Benoit chop blocks him. Jericho hits HHH with a bulldog on the steel, before Batista picks him up and just launches him straight into the cameraman onto the steel. What an awesome moment, the shot from the cameraman's camera is great, reminds me of Austin hitting HHH with that camera during the six man Hell In A Cell at Armageddon 2000. Batista looks on fire and JR thinks no one can stop him. Batista backs this claim up with a spinebuster on Benoit, followed by another on Jericho on top of Benoit. Benoit is pinned and Jericho follows after a Batista Bomb.

The match lags a touch after that exchange, as there's a drawn out sequence that consists solely of HHH and Batista beating down Orton very slowly. This section has always felt like it drained the match a little for me, as it goes on a little long. The dynamic is good though, HHH wanting to keep Batista on his side, especially after they had a staredown earlier in the match. Orton begins to comeback and low blows Batista before eliminating him with the RKO. HHH is brilliant in the corner of the camera shot, looking like he can save the pin, before slumping down in the corner. It looks as it Orton has it won after hitting HHH with the RKO, but Flair arrives somehow (did someone let him in?) and Batista clotheslines Orton. HHH slowly drags Orton up and hits the Pedigree to win the World Title for a tenth time.

Obviously a fucking great match, with my only qualm being the slowness of the beat down of Orton, which does take a little from the match. Other than that though, it really is superb. A great opening sequence, and every entrant gets their moment to shine. The dynamic between HHH and Batista is awesome, that nagging feeling in HHH's mind that Batista might betray him, and everyone watching hoping he would snap and take him out. Still not 100% sure is this is better than the original chamber match, will have to watch it again.

*****1/2*



Spoiler:  So Far



*So Far:
Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
New Year's Revolution 2005: Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Vengeance 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 26/7/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit (Iron Man) - ***1/2
Raw 29/11/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Edge - ***1/2
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Survivor Series 2004: Team Triple H vs Team Orton - ***1/4
Raw 20/9/2004: Triple H, Batista & Flair vs Benoit, Orton & Benjamin - ***1/4
Raw 13/12/2004: Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Raw 11/10/2004: Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Shawn Michaels - ***
Raw 9/8/2004: Triple H & Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 6/12/2004: Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - **1/2
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Sting vs Ric Flair
Clash of the Champions One

It's hard to accurately judge upon this match without leaving myself notes to recap through this. While the match was structured very well for the TV format, imo, it still left a fair bit to be desired. They were scrapping selling of body parts, like Flair and Sting not picking up on their back being targetted in the early going. And both men seem to of ditched conventional selling for battle fatigue. The ending stretch was very well done, as was Flair's metaculious work on the back during the middle periods of the match. But having looked back on it, I reckon both men would of worked a far better match within 25 minutes, keeping every compact, and adrenaline rushed. They didn't, it was imo, dragged out, and at the end, I feel like I wasted 20 minutes.

Despite the bits of criticsm, it still is a well worked for what it went out to accomplish, putting both men over on a nationwide audience, and kickstarting the career of Sting. For everything considered, it gets a ***3/4.​
Anyone able to throw out a random Clash show (1 to 29) and a 94-98 WCW PPV for me to watch? Liking the idea of mixing them up, and swapping after one match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Man Sting/Flair, despite having so many matches never nailed that _CLASSIC_ one. Their chemistry was never top-tier either, IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal's bitterness towards Cena in the RAW review was unusual. Unless this entire time I've never noticed he is one of those numpties who hates Cena. 8*D Please, please don't be true. You're better than that, Cal.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Another win for The Shield in what I heard was another decent match?

Seriously, what's next from here?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What's next? YOU'RE NEXT *calls Reigns to Spear you* :reigns


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Much more than decent. Really good per usual. (Y)

Seems to be the tag team championship at this rate. Only conjecture among us fans though. Undertaker could always return. Who knows.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal's bitterness towards Cena in the RAW review was unusual. Unless this entire time I've never noticed he is one of those numpties who hates Cena. 8*D Please, please don't be true. *You're better than that, Cal.*


Yeah, I'm really not though, am I? 

I hate everything Cena does except for when he wrestles. And then it all depends on who his opponent is . Sometimes he goes through the Superman motions, and then other times (when he faces someone that matters) he's fucking awesome and one of the top workers in the company .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as this Raw is concerned? Meh, 4/10. Shield/Cenell No gave those 4 points. 

Not sure if Extreme Rules is shaping up to be too amazing this year:
- Injured Cena/Ryback - **1/2
* Shield/Hell No - ***3/4
- HHH/Lesnar - ***1/4
- Ziggler/ADR/Swagger - ****
* Sheamus/Henry - ***1/2
* Orton/Show - ***
* Jericho/Fandango - ***1/4
* AJ/Kaitlyn - **
(* - unconfirmed)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Yeah, I'm really not though, am I?
> 
> I hate everything Cena does except for when he wrestles. And then it all depends on who his opponent is . Sometimes he goes through the Superman motions, and then other times (when he faces someone that matters) he's fucking awesome and one of the top workers in the company .


Not with the normal grouping of lads, but compared to the majority, sure you are. 

Common roundabout mentality with John-boy. It'll do here. Guess crapping on his segments means dick when some are truly stupid is cool beans; while the in ring work when trying gets it's due. It's a slippery slope with the Cena knuckleheads in the world of rasslin. I had to find out which side of the fence you were at - knew it couldn't be with the dunces. :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As long as Henry/Sheamus and THE SHIELD deliver then I'll be happy with ER. They can't all be like last year's event . 2011 only had one match worth watching (Christian/Del Rio Ladder), and 2010 had... uhhh... Punk/Mysterio? And 2009... Jericho/Rey. And the last 2 matches I mentioned weren't that great either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Replace 2011's match with Mysterio vs Rhodes and we're in sync.

I liked a few matches at 2010. Sheamus did own Trips even if it was too long and self-indulgent for Game's ego. I liked the LMS & of course Punker vs Mysterio.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

None of y'all enjoyed Michelle vs Layla or Orton vs Punk from 2011?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wasn't keen on Rey/Rhodes. LOVED their WM match though. Don't think any of the matches I didn't mention in my previous post would make ***.

Edit: Nope, didn't care for Punk/Orton. Hated their WM match too. As for the diva match, I haven't seen it. I've probably only seen about 5 diva matches in the past... 2 years or so.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh, Sheamus vs Triple H from Extreme Rules 2010 was WAAAAYYYY too long and dull for my liking.

I love how they ultimately settled the feud. Triple H doesn't say a word and at the same times BURIES the fuck out of Sheamus and puts him through the announce table. Pretty sure Sheamus was going through a "losing streak" phase at the time so I guess it wasn't all bad.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Why was Sheamus and Bryan on the pre-show of Mania 27? What a waste.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They needed to make time for the greatest promo in the history of professional wrestling.

DUH 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually for his sake, he was fresh off having beat D-Bry off the US Title, in a time where that title actually mattered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why would anyone like that tripe Divas match from 2011 :|

Punk vs Orton from that same even kind of sucks too.

Cal go back and watch Mysterio vs Rhodes FCA again. Beats that meh ladder match quite easily. _(seriously, I was hyped and I was like that was weak. Christian is the man, but no. Just no.)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ladder match was great. SCREW YOU CODY. ****1/4 for it . Glad they released it on... I dunno, one of the Bluray sets I own. Saved me buying the full shitty event for just one match. Though that hasn't stopped me before from buying terrible events for just one match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

eh....I legit enjoyed all of their TV matches before it WAY more. Steel Cage, first one on one, & #1 contendership post-WM. I'll stick with those.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well you stick with them. You stick with them real good :|.

Not quite as threatening as I would have liked my post to be...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In all seriousness though ....

The opening segment to Wrestlemania XXVII is perhaps the most unwatchable segment for me EVER.

"WHEN I SAY YABBA, YOU SAY DABBA"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was that your attempt to hit on me, Cal? Don't listen to McQueen buddy. You still got a chance with the other side. I believe in you like how I believe in The Shield. :hayley3


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Royal Rumble 2005 ratings?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch everything except for Game vs Orton and you'll be in for a fun show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All from RR 05 is *** or above. ALL of it.

As a matter of fact, you do yourself a favour and watch ALL Big 4 PPV's from 05 - RR, WM21, SSlam and SS. They were all fucking great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Always thought the two world title matches on that card were MINT.

Edge-HBK was pretty MEH last time I saw it though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Orton/Trips Rumble is awesome, I liked how the concussion of Orton plays a part in the whole psychological factor of the match. Much better than that clusterfuck at UF 2004, and most of their other singles matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match is utter garbage like most of their bouts. Total snoozefest.

I don't like Survivor Series '05 either. WM 21 is half worth seeing and then there is SummerSlam '05. Which rules top to bottom, really. Even Hogan vs Michaels. Why? Idk. Crazy stupid bumping from Michaels being a moron & Hogan blades for the good of the biz. Why not.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Edge/HBK is one of Edge's greatest singles matches ever, those roll ups and near falls, that concentration in infliction on Shawn's back, that slow but precise pace and Edge's heel tactics all make it a clearer than clear, **** match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's good. I draw the line there. Only "great" match he vs Michaels was their first street fight in 2005.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/4 for Edge/HBK RR 05. Worst match on the card. Great fucking event overall which absolutely shocked the hell out of me when I reviewed it earlier in the year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Where I have it too.

When it comes to 2005 Edge: it's all about the Matt Hardy program. Granted, his feud with Kane was fun. Really like the Vengeance & Steel Cage match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When it comes to 2005 Edge: it's all about LITA AND THOSE OUTFITS. Same for 06 Edge.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal gonna Cal.

Or maybe it's Cody gonna Cody on the fact to where the boobs were cool, but the wrestling was cooler for me.

Who's really at fault here?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You. Definitely you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe I'm not as dame crazy as I thought. Well, nothing trumps wrestling for me. That's a given.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wres....what?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Couldn't have picked a better picture of her to where she looks like a terrible porn star from the 80's.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I only noticed the BOOBS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly the answer I was waiting for.

VINTAGE CAL.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought Taker/Hiendreich was the worst match on the RR card at ***, which is still pretty solid. 

Rumble 2006, on the other hand, blows fucking chunks, a hilariously awful array of undercard matches followed by an above average rumble then two absolutely horrendous main events, which weren't even saved by the GOAT's entrance. . But seriously though, That whole event was trash, from top to bottom.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*****/***** for Lita's boobs.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lita boobs have been missed


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

To be frank, my pubescent self always wondered how they never fell out (considering she wore that top, a lot, and was attacked a few times, too).

Why thank you, Cal, for making me relive my more perverted past.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i found another pic of lita but dont know how to put it on here lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Been watching some GOAT stuff recently.

*Cena/Umaga RR 07 - ****3/4
Taker/Angle NWO 06 - ****3/4
Haitch/Naitch TT 05 - ****3/4*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still have never seen Taker/Angle from NWO 06.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You should watch it. Got Haitch/Batista HIAC, Taker/BORK HIAC, Eddie/BORK, Eddie/JBL and some other stuff lined up for later on. Yay.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

All of those are gems. (Y)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Eddie/Brock is an awesome match


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Lesnar/Guerrero - NWO '04 - *****
Cena/Umaga - RR '07 - *****
Angle/Taker - NWO '06 - ****3/4
Trips/Flair - TT '05 - ****1/2

Awesome stuff.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I only have one entry left on my HHH/Benoit project so after that I may go on a HHH King Of Kings era binge. Haven't seen the Flair matches in a while plus there's some other good shit too. HHH at his evil best in that Big Show match :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Am I the only one in this Goddammned world that prefers the Naitch/Haitch LMS above the Cage match?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No, I prefer the LMS match. At least at the moment, it could all change upon re-watches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

am i the only one that has not seen Hunter/nature boy tt 05 or cena/umaga ? I remember I left wresting right before the at the cena/umaga feud got back during capital punishment 11


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone watched Orton/Rhodes from RAW last night? I really plan on giving that a re-watch. Great match. ***1/2

EDIT: How can anyone not prefer the cage match to LMS? Come on guys Naitch calling Triple H a motherfucker and screaming "fuck you" at him automatically makes is a **** match. Just like that, 4 stars,


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea it was a good match, Orton's best match in a long long time, im gonna check out this hhh/naitch series


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Triple H/Flair ratings
TT: ***1/4
SS: ***1/2

I saw the SS match live which was awesome. I am just not fond of cage matches in general. I got sick of them in 2003 when they started having them on tv a lot including Goldberg/Christian which didn't even make sense to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Flair

Cage - ****1/4
LMS - ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Always thought Lita was the hottest thing ever during the 2005/2006 Phase she had where she wore all of the Rated R t-shirts. I love me some TITS.

Going to watch the Triple H vs Ric Flair Last Man Standing match right now for the hell of it, need to continue my KING OF KINGS run anyways. Probably going to do a YEAH-STYLE post of SID matches later.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SID


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I HAVE HALF THE BRAIN ............ THAT YOU DO!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Not sure exactly what triggered KOK to post that Lita comment but damn I agree. As a matter of fact, I always thought Lita was hot from as young as 7. Although, Trish did manage to beat just this one time when she tried to seduce Bubba.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cody/Orton from last night was a **3/4 for me. Randy kinda played the heel role yesterday, which only proves how uncomfortable it became for him to be a stale babyface


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, what would you rate the live sex celebration segment?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

∞/∞ for Lita's BOOB popping out.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Clearly the live sex celebration was *****.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Edge and Lita Live Sex celebration gets a ***** from me. Not a single botch.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Edge and Lita Live Sex celebration gets a ***** from me. Not a single botch.


Well, technically there was one.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's like Punk vs Cena at MITB.

Except with Tits.

LITA Tits.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Well, technically there was one.


No botch ever looked better than that one, though. DAT TIT.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Clash of the Champions 18 (21st of January 1992)

Rick & Scott Steiner vs Mr Hughes & Vader ***1/4 
Short, but loved it. Steiners looked immense.

Marcus Bugwell & Brian Pillman vs Terry Taylor & Tracy Smolders ***1/4 
Much like the match above, except the tempo was just fantastic.

Johnny B Badd vs Richard Morton *1/4
T.N News vs Diamond Dallas Page *

Cactus Jack vs Van Hammer *** 
Nothing to shout out about, except a fun brawl

Brad Armstrong & Big Josh vs Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin *1/2
Thomas Rich vs Vinnie Vegas 1/2* 

Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ron Simmons vs Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zybsyko ****1/4 
Middle was rather bland, start & finish gave an incredible match

Ricky Steamboat & Sting vs Rick Rude & Steve Austin ***3/4 
Very fun, not as well worked as it could of been

Not on the level of Lita's boob, but great selection of matches, amongst the usual jobbing. Probably gone over the top with the 6 man tag, but adored it. Time to think of whether to watch Slamboree 96 or Superbrawl 96. Like deciding which testicle to remove.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Anyone watched Orton/Rhodes from RAW last night? I really plan on giving that a re-watch. Great match. ***1/2
> 
> EDIT: How can anyone not prefer the cage match to LMS? Come on guys Naitch calling Triple H a motherfucker and screaming "fuck you" at him automatically makes is a **** match. Just like that, 4 stars,


I wrote a little bit about it:

Randy Orton v Cody Rhodes - Raw (4/29/13)
Haven't watched enough Orton recently to know if this is something he does regularly now but he walked around playing to the crowd after almost every move he hit and I really disliked it. I guess it's supposed to make him look like a badass or something but it just came across as a lack of urgency to me and made Cody look like even less of a threat than he already is. Yeah I know this was just an Orton showcase but still, it's stuff like this that makes me think Randy isn't a very good babyface worker. They did some nice spots though. The Disaster Kick was a sweet transition spot, the Cross Rhodes nearfall was great, and the finish was cool. Solid TV match, nothing more. 

Certainly not a match I'd call great or want to watch again. 

---
I prefer HHH/Flair LMS to the cage match. Love them both but I like LMS more.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Definitely enjoyed the Orton vs Rhodes match, especially near the end. Thought Cody Rhodes hitting his finisher, getting a close nearfall and then "DAT RKO OUT OF NOWHERE" :cole3 was a good finish overall. I'm surprised this match lasted this long to be honest, thought it would have ended with no commercial breaks.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I gave Orton/Rhodes a watch, and wasn't all that impressed. Rhodes is a solid worker but both characters are so bland it almost makes it unbearable. Orton is fine in the ring, but as Saint Dick stated he's an awful babyface. Match was a decent Raw TV match that was given some length, but I'd prefer your run-of-the-mill Jericho/DOLPH, Bryan/DOLPH, Shield/anyone matches tenfold.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ADR/Cesaro from the same show was much better imo. That had some neat stuff in it like Del Rio trying to fight out of a Cesaro back suplex with punches but getting dropped anyway. (Y)

Gonna watch the Shield match in a bit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

creative has all but destroyed the mystic of the dolph/bryan match and are close with the Jericho/ziggler match as well


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How would you rank these guys in:
- Charisma/Impact
- Mic skills
- In-ring work

Batista
Brock Lesnar
Chris Benoit
CM Punk
Eddie Guerrero
Edge
JBL
Jeff Hardy
John Cena
Randy Orton
Rey Mysterio
Umaga


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, even Dolph/Kofi was better imo. I did enjoy ADR/Cesaro even if the outcome was a foregone conclusion. At least Cesaro didn't get squashed. Some great stuff in that match, though. Good shout. Cesaro deserves so much better. 

Haven't watched Shield vs Hell No/Cena but I heard it was on par with their other gems. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Dunno if I should bother watching the whole Raw. I've already seen the only part I give a damn about (Orton vs Rhodes) so it might just be a waste of time skimming through the rest just to say I've watched it.



ATF said:


> How would you rank these guys in:
> - Charisma/Impact
> - Mic skills
> - In-ring work


Chris Benoit (charisma = 7, ring work = 15/10, mic skills = 6)
Eddie Guerrero (charisma = 10, ring work = 10, mic skills = 9)
John Cena (charisma = 10, ring work = 8, mic skills = 9)
Brock Lesnar (charisma = 7, ring work = 9, mic skills = 3)
Randy Orton (charisma = 8, ring work = 9, mic skills = 7)
Rey Mysterio (charisma = 7, ring work = 10, mic skills = 5)
Edge (charisma = 9, ring work = 7.5, mic skills = 9)
JBL (charisma = 8, ring work = 7, mic skills = 9)
CM Punk (charisma = 7, ring work = 7.5, mic skills = 8)
Batista (charisma = 8, ring work = 6.5, mic skills = 6)
Umaga (charisma = 6, ring work = 7, mic skills = N/A)
Jeff Hardy (charisma = 9, ring work = 7, mic skills = 5)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF said:


> How would you rank these guys in:
> - Charisma/Impact
> - Mic skills
> - In-ring work
> ...


imo


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Out of 5, Charisma/Mic Skill/Ring work

Batista - 4/3/3
Brock Lesnar - 4/2/5
Chris Benoit - 4/2/5
CM Punk - 5/5/5
Eddie Guerrero - 5/5/5
Edge - 5/4/4
JBL - 4/4/2
Jeff Hardy - 4/2/3
John Cena - 4/4/4
Randy Orton - 3/3/4
Rey Mysterio - 3/2/4
Umaga - 3/NA/4


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Out of 10, Charisma/Mic Work/Ring Work

Batista - 8/4/3
Brock Lesnar - 7/3/8
Chris Benoit - 7/5/10
CM Punk - 9/10/9
Eddie Guerrero - 9/8/10
Edge - 8/7/7
JBL - 7/9/4
Jeff Hardy - 9/3/6
John Cena - 9/8/8
Randy Orton - 6/3/7
Rey Mysterio - 6/3/9
Umaga - 5/NA/8


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> am i the only one that has not seen Hunter/nature boy tt 05 or cena/umaga ? I remember I left wresting right before the at the cena/umaga feud got back during capital punishment 11


What? Go watch them. Right now. You're missing out if you don't. Two spectacular matches. 

Ended up not watching my planned out list of stuff tonight in the end. Went to shop and bought a shit load of fruit to test out my new juicer. Pineapple, apple, carrot, beetroot, lemon and acai berry. I feel very awake now, not that anybody cares. :


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> What? Go watch them. Right now. You're missing out if you don't. Two spectacular matches.
> 
> Ended up not watching my planned out list of stuff tonight in the end. Went to shop and bought a shit load of fruit to test out my new juicer. Pineapple, apple, carrot, beetroot, lemon and acai berry. I feel very awake now, not that anybody cares. :


If it means seeing your sig more often............i care


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: My SV order got dispatched today. Should get the discs 2morrow :mark:. Just gotta make it through work 2morrow (first day back after 6 days off lol), then I'm off to see Iron Man 3, then I got 2 days off to go through some of my new DVD's .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Cenell No - ***3/4. Typical Shield/Hell No & (insert partner) greatness, and it kinda blew my mind at who took the fucking pin of all people.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Does anyone have anywhere to watch the Shield match from last night? I could probably find it but I'm lazy, sue me. :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

zep81 said:


> If it means seeing your sig more often............i care


Save it and look at it as often as you want. :brock



Big Z said:


> :mark: My SV order got dispatched today. Should get the discs 2morrow :mark:. Just gotta make it through work 2morrow (first day back after 6 days off lol), then I'm off to see Iron Man 3, then I got 2 days off to go through some of my new DVD's .


2 days off after 6 days off. Cool job.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

How would you guys rate every shield match? 3 on 3. 

1. Shield vs Kane/Bryan/ryback TLC ****1/2

2. Shield vs sheamus/cena/ryback EC. ****1/4 

3. Shield vs Taker/Kane/Bryan RAW ***3/4

4. Shield vs Jericho/ryback/sheamus RAW ***3/4

5. Shield vs Orton/sheamus/show WM. ***1/2


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What would you guys rate Undertaker Vs Kane, at WM 14. For me, the build up was AMAZING. Match quality, it sucked. **1/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1 - vs Rybell No (LOL obviously) - ****1/2
2 - vs Justice League - ****1/4
3 - vs Dazzlers of Destruction - ****
4 - vs Cenell No - ***3/4
5 - vs Sheriback - ***3/4
6 - vs Shorteamus - ***1/2

All of these (bar Rybell No) are non-gimmick 6-Man Tags. And they're all ***1/2 or above. DAT SHIELD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> 2 days off after 6 days off. Cool job.


I have 4 days a week off normally . I'm only part time. Had 6 days this time because I put in 2 holiday days for the weekend . And yet I think I've watched less wrestling now than I did during my last job where I was full time .

Edit: **** for Undertaker/Kane WM 14. Tremendous build up and an awesome big man brawl full of HATE~!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

1. v Ryback/Hell No
2. v Cena/Ryback/Sheamus
3. v Taker/Hell No
4. v Jericho/Ryback/Sheamus
5. v Orton/Show/Sheamus

and now:

*John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)*
I really fucking liked this. Like a lot. About to re-watch the Taker 6 man but I think I liked this even more than that one. This match had a simple but very effective story going on. Kane wanting to get revenge for his bro and Team Hell No not wanting to tag in Cena because of his injury. Dug Kane getting some with DEM UPPERCUTS early on and I thought they did a good job of escalating the personal rivalry between the tag champs (especially Kane) and The Shield throughout the match. Kane risking a DQ early on was good and him wanting to put Ambrose through the announce table as payback was even better. Cena feeling the effects of his injury and having to tag out immediately was also perfect. Created just as much drama for his hot tag later on as Taker's hot tag in London. Can't go wrong when the middle of the match is The Shield isolating Bryan. He was excellent conveying vulnerability and desperation as the face in peril (take notes Orton) and I thought the hot tags, cutoffs and big spots were timed really well. Finishing stretch was great too and from what I'm thinking right now it's the reason I prefer this to the GOATs of Destruction tag. That one had a weak finish, this had the best possible finish with Cena making the hot tag because Kane had no choice but to tag him, came in on fire, but then his injury got the better of him leading to a clean win over the champ for The Shield. I'd also like to add that I'm a big fan of Rollins' trash talk. It's not on the Mark Henry level but it adds a little something to their matches and image. Great match.


----------



## Shaun_27 (Apr 12, 2011)

Need to take a good break from revision, anyone got a list of ****1/2+ matches from Batista and/or Orton?

Thanks


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Batista vs HHH Hell In A Cell is more than worth watching. Near ***** stuff there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shaun_27 said:


> Need to take a good break from revision, anyone got a list of ****1/2+ matches from Batista and/or Orton?
> 
> Thanks


For Orton, you should check out the following if you haven't already:

vs Mick Foley - Backlash
vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania, SummerSlam, Armageddon
vs Benoit - SummerSlam 04, Smackdown in 2006 (two or three matches)
vs Mysterio - No Way Out, Smackdown 06
vs Cena - No Way Out 08


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*John Cena vs. Batista Over The Limit 2010*

:jpl:jpl:jpl out of :jpl:jpl:jpl:jpl:jpl GOAT points.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Does anyone have anywhere to watch the Shield match from last night? I could probably find it but I'm lazy, sue me. :side:







Not the whole thing but some of it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

myself said:


> *John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)*
> I really fucking liked this. Like a lot. About to re-watch the Taker 6 man but I think I liked this even more than that one. This match had a simple but very effective story going on. Kane wanting to get revenge for his bro and Team Hell No not wanting to tag in Cena because of his injury. Dug Kane getting some with DEM UPPERCUTS early on and I thought they did a good job of escalating the personal rivalry between the tag champs (especially Kane) and The Shield throughout the match. Kane risking a DQ early on was good and him wanting to put Ambrose through the announce table as payback was even better. Cena feeling the effects of his injury and having to tag out immediately was also perfect. Created just as much drama for his hot tag later on as Taker's hot tag in London. Can't go wrong when the middle of the match is The Shield isolating Bryan. He was excellent conveying vulnerability and desperation as the face in peril (take notes Orton) and I thought the hot tags, cutoffs and big spots were timed really well. Finishing stretch was great too and from what I'm thinking right now it's the reason I prefer this to the GOATs of Destruction tag. That one had a weak finish, this had the best possible finish with Cena making the hot tag because Kane had no choice but to tag him, came in on fire, but then his injury got the better of him leading to a clean win over the champ for The Shield. I'd also like to add that I'm a big fan of Rollins' trash talk. It's not on the Mark Henry level but it adds a little something to their matches and image. Great match.


Yeah I think it's better than the Taker match.

Updated MOTY list:

1. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
2. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
3. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
4. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
5. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
6. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
7. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
8. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
9. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
10. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
11. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
12. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)



Shaun_27 said:


> Need to take a good break from revision, anyone got a list of ****1/2+ matches from Batista and/or Orton?
> 
> Thanks


Not necessarily ****1/2+ but;

best Batista matches:

v HHH - Vengeance '05
v Taker - Wrestlemania 23, Backlash '07
v Cena - Extreme Rules '10
w/Taker v Cena/HBK - No Way Out '07

I also really like his '08 matches with HBK.

best Orton matches:

v Foley - Backlash '04
v Mysterio - Smackdown 4/7/06 (I think that's the date)
v HHH - No Mercy '07
v Christian - Over the Limit '11

And basically anything against Benoit and Taker.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Batista vs. Triple H at Vengeance '05? My match of the year for sure. A very great, near ★★★★★ Hell in a Cell match for me. Absolute brutality. Immense spots. Hot weapons. Good storytelling.

Missed out on the Cena & Team Hell No vs. Shield match from last night's Raw. Must watch or must not?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^I'd say it's must watch. If you're a fan of The Shield (which everyone should be) you'll like it.

Kinda funny or interesting or something that I've found 12 WWE matches this year to be at least very good and only 3 of them were on PPV.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

*CM Punk vs John Cena SummerSlam 2011*

Simply amazing.

:jpl:jpl:jpl:jpl1/2 out of :jpl:jpl:jpl:jpl:jpl GOAT Points.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> How would you rank these guys in:
> - Charisma/Impact
> - Mic skills
> - In-ring work
> ...


Chris Benoit (charisma = 7, ring work = 10, mic skills = 5)
Eddie Guerrero (charisma = 9, ring work = 9, mic skills = 8)
John Cena (charisma = 10, ring work = 8, mic skills = 8)
Brock Lesnar (charisma = 7, ring work = 8, mic skills = 3)
Randy Orton (charisma = 7, ring work = 7, mic skills = 6)
Rey Mysterio (charisma = 7, ring work = 9, mic skills = 5)
Edge (charisma = 9, ring work = 7, mic skills = 9)
JBL (charisma = 8, ring work = 6, mic skills = 10)
CM Punk (charisma = 9, ring work = 8, mic skills = 10)
Batista (charisma = 8, ring work = 6, mic skills = 6)
Umaga (charisma = 6, ring work = 6, mic skills = N/A)
Jeff Hardy (charisma = 9, ring work = 7, mic skills = 5)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Have now watched The Shield match from last night, and yet again these guys deliver. Kane just going ham at the start trying to avenge the beatdown of his brother was great, and Cena selling his ankle injury really well. Ambrose and Rollins with some more awesome taunting once again. Reigns with that seriously vicious Samoan Drop. Every move this guy delivers is with such force. Pretty awesome finish too, The Shield capitalizing on an injured Cena and having him take the pin makes The Shield look even more legit. ****3/4*


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Gonna watch this gem now.






:hbk


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> For Orton, you should check out the following if you haven't already:
> 
> vs Mick Foley - Backlash
> vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania, SummerSlam, Armageddon
> ...


To add onto this,

vs. HHH, No Mercy 2007
vs. Michaels, Survivor Series 2007
vs. Cena, Breaking Point 2009
vs. Undertaker, No Mercy 2005 (worth watching because it's an actually GOOD casket match)
vs. Edge, Vengeance(?) 2004


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ruiner87 said:


> To add onto this,
> 
> vs. HHH, No Mercy 2007
> vs. Michaels, Survivor Series 2007
> ...


Can't believe I forgot Survivor Series and No Mercy. Orton's match with Edge from December 04 is also well worth a watch.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't forget his matches with Christian.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Does anyone else feel they really dropped something regarding Punk/Taker at Wrestlemania? I mean in my view, they really should have had Punk go over The Rock at the Rumble, this would continue to give him that rise as the top guy in the business, Punk having the longest reign of the modern era going over the biggest star in the business right now in John Cena and then one of the greatest of all time in The Rock during the reign, theres one more guy though.. The Undertaker.

At Wrestlemania, we get the longest reigning Champion of the modern era in CM Punk put his title on the line against the Wrestlemania streak of The Undertaker. We then get the same battle we did, superb match but it's so much more than that. It's for the WWE title this time, and it main events like CM Punk deserved to. The Undertaker goes on to win a historic WWE Championship, only to then lose it at Extreme Rules. 

Now considering we have Taker wrestling on Raw and Smackdown and potentially Extreme Rules later this month, I still think this was possible. You then however get stuck in the whole 'what does John Cena do, as he did win the Royal Rumble' but then you build that round his whole redemption angle and say he wants a piece of The Rock. Sure it kind of demerits the whole Rumble itself but it happened between Austin/Bret at WM13.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea but i feel that way about alot of storylines theses days. their match at mania made up for it big time


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Royal Rumble match should of ended with Punk winning after the lights went out setting up the rematch for EC which Rock wins but I guess they didn't want The Rock losing because it would of hurt his momentum into Mania. Which it wouldn't of if done right but oh well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton/Rhodes - Street Fight SD '11 - ****

Awesome match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Just watched Steamboat/Dustin vs Zybysko/Anderson at the Clash 17. Imo, this is easily one of the best tags ever, I'll say U.S to cover any tracks. I don't think words will do it much justice. Was going to put it out there at the same time as the rest of the event, but oh well. Hopefully Rude/Sting shall be a fantastic match. Should just hurry myself up and download every weekly from about mid 91 through to 93 WCW.

As for a rating, ****3/4. Gets put second in my favourite tag matches to the 1983 cage.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thoughts on orton/angle ons 06 ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Still have never seen Taker/Angle from NWO 06.


Surprised. Great stuff.

Their match on Smackdown in 2003 is still better though. As long as you've seen that - you're good.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Surprised. Great stuff.
> 
> Their match on Smackdown in 2003 is still better though. As long as you've seen that - you're good.


I'm the other way around, Link meh? :mark:


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

What's the worst match that should have been good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> I'm the other way around, Link meh? :mark:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs...s-undertaker_sport?search_algo=2#.UYB2PbWR98E



kanerules88 said:


> What's the worst match that should have been good.


Brock vs Goldberg.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

UGH. That should have been Steiner-Goldberg on STEROIDS but NOPE.

That's like one of perhaps 3 or 4 BROCK matches that I wouldn't consider to be at least GOOD. DEAD SERIOUS. The guy has the highest ratio of good matches to bad matches that I've ever seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

tbf, not a lot is as awesome as Steiner vs Goldberg. :hayley3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

To hold me over until I start throwing out Extreme Rules reviews, I'm going to go back and watch every PPV from my favorite year ever ; 2005.

By all rights I should start with New Year's Revolution, but I heard people talking about the Rumble and I wanna watch that shit NOW. So that's what I'm watching for the rest of the night .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Orton/Rhodes - Street Fight SD '11 - ****
> 
> Awesome match.


Never seen this. Might watch it tonight.



redskins25 said:


> thoughts on orton/angle ons 06 ?


Don't remember. Might watch that tonight too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do like me some of that Rhodes vs Orton street fight too.

RHODES


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> thoughts on orton/angle ons 06 ?


Meh, Their Vengeance match was better.

Placing the flaks on some previously discussed matches:

Eddie/Brock *(*****) * (Amazing contest between a monster heel and an ambitious underdog, The David/Goliath formula at its best)

Trips/Flair - Cage *(****3/4)* (A few more watches and i may bump this up to a perfect *****)
Cena/Umaga - LMS *(****3/4)*
Taker/Angle *(****3/4)*
Taker/Kane *(****)* (Kane's GOAT Match)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Leaning on the fence in saying Kane's best singles match was vs Finlay in the Belfast Brawl. With - off the top of my head - Undertaker WM 14 & Chris Benoit Bad Blood '04 rounding out his top three.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Kane's performance in TLC IV, ties with his one in Rumble '01.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Leaning on the fence in saying Kane's best singles match was vs Finlay in the Belfast Brawl. With - off the top of my head - Undertaker WM 14 & Chris Benoit Bad Blood '04 rounding out his top three.




I think Kane/HHH mask vs title on raw is ridiculously underrated. Also, people tend to forget about Kane/angle from WM 18.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> To hold me over until I start throwing out Extreme Rules reviews, I'm going to go back and watch every PPV from my favorite year ever ; 2005.
> 
> By all rights I should start with New Year's Revolution, but I heard people talking about the Rumble and I wanna watch that shit NOW. So that's what I'm watching for the rest of the night .


Feel like doing that too, NYR is meh besides that EC


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HBK vs Edge was Really good, so chaulk that up as me being wrong again.

HEI-DEN.

HEI-DEN-REICH.

What a fucking theme song, always loved the duo of Taker vs Heidenreich matches .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I heard the proposed Taker WM match was him with Kane, taking on Sinskty and Hienderich. :lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That Edge/Orton match from Raw 12/2004 is pretty nice. 

Never seen Orton/Taker from Smackdown 2003. Starting that now. THIS VINCE/STEPHANIE FEUD WHAT THE FUCK


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> HBK vs Edge was Really good, so chaulk that up as me being wrong again.
> 
> HEI-DEN.
> 
> ...




Heidenrich was awesome. Whatever happened to him? They just decide to release him?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

GOATAntics said:


> I heard the proposed Taker WM match was him with Kane, taking on Sinskty and Hienderich. :lol.


Sounds almost as good as Mark Henry in a casket match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Heidenrich was awesome. Whatever happened to him? They just decide to release him?


I don't remember but I do know that there was a rumor of him heading to TNA.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Heidenreich was sloppy as fuck in the casket match, but that doesn't stop the match from being good of course. Great storytelling here as it's pretty much one of the biggest carryjobs I have ever seen from The Undertaker.

These Eddie and GOAT segments are.... Well.... GOAT.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Foley vs. Eddie, Opposite styles that would of meshed very well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I think Kane/HHH mask vs title on raw is ridiculously underrated. Also, people tend to forget about Kane/angle from WM 18.


Not really. It's overbooked & in the middle of Trips poor period.

Kane vs Angle is solid. I like it, but not in the realm of being considering one of his _(Kane's)_ better matches.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Better Wrestlemania Main Event, Rock/Austin WM17 or Shawn/Taker WM26 and why.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Shawn-Taker by 100 million miles.

& I don't feel like explaining.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Shawn-Taker by 100 million miles.
> 
> & I don't feel like explaining.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Amen. If you need it to be explained, you don't get wrestling.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If it was 2012, I would have said Rock/Austin without a doubt. However, after a recent rewatch, Rock/Austin dropped to *****1/2*, while Taker/HBK went up to *******. Part of the reason why Rock/Austin dropped was because I felt that the match could have told the same story in much shorter time. Some of the match felt like it really dragged, especially the parts that mimicked the "attitude era" tropes.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Better Wrestlemania Main Event, Rock/Austin WM17 or Shawn/Taker WM26 and why.


I find Shawn/Taker to be better. I love Rock/Austin but it's overrated by most people. There are people that call it the best WrestleMania match of all time which I find mind-boggling. 

*Ratings for some Smackdown 2003 matches*

Chris Benoit vs The Big Show 5/8/03: ★★1/4

Team Angle vs Kidman & Mysterio 3/13/03: ★★★1/2

Sean O'Haire vs Mr. America (Hogan) 5/22/03: ★1/4


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watched several docs:

*The Spectacular Legacy of the AWA*
Great look into the company, however when Vince showed his face and the stories of disgruntled wrestlers was happening, everything was becoming murky. Still a good peek behind the curtain. 8/10

*Born to Controversy: The Roddy Piper Story*
I LOVED this one. Piper just came off as down to earth guy. That line about Mr. T made my jaw drop:"He's the only person I know who wears more chains than his ancestors!" Dayum.

*Road Warriors: The Life and Death of the Most Dominant Tag Team in Wrestling History*
Another great doc, but I hate myself for watching that "drunk Hawk" stuff. Obviously there's people who were probably in stitches when that happened. I wasn't. I'll leave it at that. 9/10

Contemplated watching the Rise and Fall of WCW, but I've read so many mixed things about it. Went with Dusty's doc.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Leaning on the fence in saying Kane's best singles match was vs Finlay in the Belfast Brawl. With - off the top of my head - Undertaker WM 14 & Chris Benoit Bad Blood '04 rounding out his top three.


I don't know if I saw the Belfast Brawl back when it happened and completely forgot about it or if I never saw it. Either way I'm glad I just watched it. That was a hell of a fight. Not sure if I'd call it Kane's best singles match but I'll cosign for it being top 3. Legit stuff.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Shawn/Taker definitely better than Rock/Austin at Mania 17. HOWEVER, Rock/Austin from Mania 19 is in the discussion with Mania 26. The emotion in Rock/Austin III is ridiculous. Nearly on par with Shawn/Taker.

Oh in case anyone's interested in some gossip on that new Diva reality show. 



> Regarding the show, a source says the E! cameras just happened to be there at WrestleMania 29 when The Bella Twins, Cameron and Naomi were informed that their six-person tag match with Brodus Clay, Tensai, Cody Rhodes and Damien Sandow wasn't going to take place. This now has led to speculation that the match was never planned for the pay-per-view in the first place and that it was a work to get some good footage for the new show on the E! network.
> 
> Read more: http://www.WrestlingInc.com/wi/news...-on-wwe-new-divas-reality-show/#ixzz2S18j9x00


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Sting vs Ric Flair
> Clash of the Champions One
> 
> It's hard to accurately judge upon this match without leaving myself notes to recap through this. While the match was structured very well for the TV format, imo, it still left a fair bit to be desired. They were scrapping selling of body parts, like Flair and Sting not picking up on their back being targetted in the early going. And both men seem to of ditched conventional selling for battle fatigue. The ending stretch was very well done, as was Flair's metaculious work on the back during the middle periods of the match. But having looked back on it, I reckon both men would of worked a far better match within 25 minutes, keeping every compact, and adrenaline rushed. They didn't, it was imo, dragged out, and at the end, I feel like I wasted 20 minutes.
> ...


Superbrawl '98. (Y) 4 quality matches.



KingOfKings said:


> Ugh, Sheamus vs Triple H from Extreme Rules 2010 was WAAAAYYYY too long and dull for my liking.
> 
> I love how they ultimately settled the feud. Triple H doesn't say a word and at the same times BURIES the fuck out of Sheamus and puts him through the announce table. Pretty sure Sheamus was going through a "losing streak" phase at the time so I guess it wasn't all bad.


One of the couple disappointing contests on that show. I had high hopes for it too... Oh well, still better than Orton/Swagger where every fuckin spot was predicted 30 seconds prior.



redskins25 said:


> am i the only one that has not seen Hunter/nature boy tt 05 or cena/umaga ? I remember I left wresting right before the at the *cena/umaga feud got back during capital punishment 11*


Huh? 



That's irrelevant said:


> I find Shawn/Taker to be better. I love Rock/Austin but it's overrated by most people. There are people that call it the best WrestleMania match of all time which I find mind-boggling.
> 
> *Ratings for some Smackdown 2003 matches*
> 
> ...


Do yourself a favor and check out Kidman & Mysterio vs. WGTT from 8/14/03. It's FANTASTIC. (_marks at the fact that I get to pimp it out even more_)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

JE, I think he means he left before or during the Cena/Umaga feud then came back around Capital Punishment 2011.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

GOATAntics said:


> Better Wrestlemania Main Event, Rock/Austin WM17 or Shawn/Taker WM26 and why.


Rock v Austin is in another universe and if you need an explanation then eat a fucking harpoon. No, but really, to be perfectly honest, Michaels/Taker has never felt special to me. Yes, it's Michaels' final match, but yeah, whatever, it still doesn't feel special and I will honestly never understand the huge hype behind it. 

Rock/Austin is the best possible WWF Clash of the Titans with reckless bar-fight brawling and Austin gradually losing his mind and eventually snapping in a frenzy of violent chair-bashing. It's one of the 'biggest'-feeling matches of all time and that atmosphere does not go away for the whole half hour (or however long it was, like 2 minutes or something). It has those goddamn incredible facials like the Rock realising Mcmahon tried to screw him over and Austin going completely bokers and pounding on the mat because the Rock won't stay down. 

Michaels/Taker is a good match, It really is. I can't call it a great one, though. It's a match where I don;t really have a problem with it, I just don't "see" why it's so great. Yeah, OK, it has leg-work. So do tons of matches and I don't think the leg-work in the match was any better than, say, the leg-work in the Swager/Del Rio on SmackDown recently. Taker sold like a master, but did Shawn do anything particularly special while working the leg? The moonsault on the leg on the table was badass (whether accidental or not), but I struggle to think of anything else Michaels did to make his leg-work stand-out from the rest. The finish run felt about 7% as big as Rock/Austin's and I think people overrate the call-back spots. Hell, I think Austin being stuck in the sharpshooter like at Mania 13 was a way cooler call-back than anything in the Mania 26 main. The final tombstone was a jumping one, yeah, cool. It didn't look as good as the one I saw Mike Enos do yesterday on Chris Benoit. SO THERE.

extended thoughts on Mania 26 that I wrote in November after watching it a third time (and the second time in that week, IIRC)



Spoiler: hddf



Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
First thing's first - Matt Striker sucks and has no place in a commentary booth. NOW, the story to this is sort of the same as the previous years, but Michaels' career is on the line so that obviously adds a bigger sense of drama. The thing is, I don't think they express drama in this anywhere near as good the XXV match. That said, this is the third I've watch this (and the second in the span of about 9 days), and I've probably "got it" more now than on either previous watch. But I still don't think this is great. This match has an extremely good reputation, and is called the best match ever by some people. So when someone doesn't think it's great, it kind of looks like they don't like it. I do like it, and it's a good match, but I don't see much more than that. The opening I like a lot. They've both had their big Mania match already, and this time Shawn's career is on the line, so he's going to mock Taker's cut-throat and when Taker gets mad, Shawn'll get on him and attack. Still, Taker's the bigger, badder ('badder' isn't a word but IDC fuck off) guy. So Shawn moves to the leg which Taker crippled himself after the Old School Rope...Thingy, and he does a pretty good job, but it doesn't captivate me. But I will say this - after 25 years Michaels FINALLY learnt how to put on the figure-four. Goddamn, Shawn, put their crossed leg over their straight one. Anyway, what draws me into all of the leg stuff is Taker's selling (surprise); even after Shawn had stopped the leg work, Taker was trying to get feeling back into it and wobbling around and falling over after big moves. I liked him sort of sacrificing his own leg to avoid the elbow drop as well. Then he goes for another potentially ridiculous dive until Shawn runs in and sweeps the leg, which was cool. I said this match sort of lacked the execution of drama that XXV had, and the tombstone to the floor (which was pretty cool), sort of gives off that vibe. In 2009 Taker's dive felt like a game-changer, Michaels' initial tombstone kick-out felt like a game-changer. This didn't really have that same feeling. I can't explain why. Again - there's nothing wrong with it and it's 'good', but I don't feel 'great'. I still dug it. What I didn't dig was that weird Last Ride counter. The commentators were deciding whether it was Taker's leg blowing out or Michaels countering it, but IDK, looked awkward and it shouldn't take me five watches to get what it is. Probably not as shitty as the XXV DDT, I'll admit. Now - the moonsault. I still don't feel about his moonsault what I felt about the biggest stuff at WM XXV, but it's definitely the biggest spot of the match. I hate set-ups where there's a superkick and the opponent conveniently lands on a certain area, but I can get past it. The moonsault itself was pretty great and whether he aimed for the knee or not is irrelevant - he landed on that motherfucking knee. And what else I really liked is, when he got Taker in the ring, he didn't bother to continue to work on it, he went straight for the superkick instead. I said Taker's dive starts part 2 of the XXV match, and Michaels' moonsault sort of starts part 2 of this match. Only part 2 here is much shorter. After Taker kicks of the superkick, Michaels kicks out of a tombstone and Taker goes to the cut-throat signal to finish. But he stops and Shawn grabs Taker's clothes to pull himself up. I said yesterday (or whenever) that I didn't find Shawn's acting as hammy as usual, and I kind of jinxed myself. I mean it wasn't THAT bad at all, but I didn't really like it that much either. The jumping tombstone was cool but it wasn't a mind-blowing thing for me like it is a lot of people. SO.......yeah. This is a good match, I've always thought it was a good match, but it has an "All Time Classic" following that I don't even come close to agreeing with. I don't think XXV is a classic either, but that one I'd actually say is great; this on is not a great match. There isn't anything specifically wrong with it, but it doesn't do "HOLY SHIT THIS IS MOTHERFUCKING AWWWWWESOME!!!!!!" for me. I don't think I'll ever see it.



Like, I know people don't 'want' to say why Michaels/Taker is so much better than Rock/Austin because they think it speaks for itself or w/e.....but, can someone? Please? Because I just flat out don't get it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c Austin vs Rock isn't great. It's boring after about 5 minutes of THAT INTENSE ATTITUDE ERA BRAWLING. So by near default Undertaker vs Michaels has it beat.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Don't see how Austin losing his mind and swearing at referees like a LOONEY is more boring than Michaels doing leg work you could see done better on SmackDown on any given week.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'd pick Austin/Rock because I don't even find the other entertaining at all.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I think Michaels/Taker is the better match but I prefer watching Rock/Austin. Can't go wrong with either though by any means.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

They're both classics. One spot that always comes to my mind is Taker hitting that tombstone on the outside. It's a great match and I wouldn't say that the leg work is all it has going for it. Both guys are masters when it comes to facial expressions, pacing, knowing when to do a specific move (the moonsault onto the table). The only reason why it didn't feel as special to me as it did to others is merely because I had already prepared for the end of HBK's career well in advance. I even felt it was obvious going into it that he'd lose and retire. I don't know. It's still a profound moment for a fan, as he is arguably the best "performer" the company has ever had, in my opinion. It was a great loss. 

Rock and Austin is a match with a lot of drama and back and forth intensity. I feel like the only bad thing I can say about it is the abundance of finishers and near falls. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do this in a main event, but it was just too much here. It felt like the match would never end at one point and it was pretty overwhelming. It's like, I get the picture... both guys are putting on superhuman performances and this is one of those particular nights, but some of it could've been cut down and it probably would've been a lot better while getting the point across. It's still an unforgettable match. I haven't seen the one from 19 in FOREVER, and after hearing about it on this thread I have the urge to check it out soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Don't see how Austin losing his mind and swearing at referees like a LOONEY is more boring than Michaels doing leg work you could see done better on SmackDown on any given week.


Don't go mentioning Michaels work to me in that match match. Couldn't care less. It's all about Undertaker that makes me care. Besides, I'm not even one of those lads who creams over 26 as it is. I just prefer it miles and miles above the overrated match that is Austin vs Rock from 17. Give me WrestleMania 25 & WrestleMania 19 matches any day.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I see y'all discussing the best WM ME ever. Well, to me, Rock/Austin II has Taker/HBK II beat. While that match was still phenomenal, I see it as a little overrated since I know a lot of people who cream all over it. It just didn't felt as epic or special as the 25 match did for me, even though the wrestling was even better. It tells you something when I prefer the HIAC vs HHH at 28 to that match. Rock/Austin II was the biggest mark out moment ever for me (my 1st WM Main Event after I started watching in '04, and my favourite of all time winning the WWF Title), plus it was mega intense, mega unpredictable, extremely well built, the atmosphere was mad, every move was huge, and there were lots of mark out spots such as the Million Dollar Dream, the arrival of Vinny and Rock's Stunner. 19 was better as far as technical wrestling goes, but I felt this has it beat in everything else.

EDIT: Since we've discussed that, how about the best Main Event of the other Big 4 PPV's?
Imo:
Royal Rumble: '92 Rumble
SummerSlam: Bret vs Bulldog
Survivor Series: '02 Chamber


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Royal Rumble:* 2001 Rumble
*Summerslam:* Bret/Bulldog (HM: Edge/Taker, Rock/Brock)
*Survivor Series:* Team WWF vs Team Alliance, 2002 Chamber. (HM: Cena/Jericho, Team Raw/Team Smackdown)

Last night I randomly decided to re-watch two Jericho/Regal matches from 2001. The Wrestlemania 17 match and the 'Dutchess of Queensbury Rules' match at Backlash.

*WM17:* I still think this is one of the better WM openers, bar the poor finish. Perfect clash of styles, Regal getting as much heat as someone like HHH that night. I always loved it when he just waved at the crowd in the middle of the match with that smirky smile on his face. Solid match, Jericho almost completely missing with his dive over the top rope almost taking a big bump. Regal with his usual vicious offense and big suplexes. The finish still sucks though, Jericho's bulldog doesn't land Regal in the middle of the ring, so he scoop slams him down before hitting the lionsault for the win. Even JR is like "that's it?". Surprised they didn't just have Regal tap to the Walls, that always got a big cheer when Jericho tried to lock it in. ****1/4*

*Backlash:* This match was the reason I watched both of these, as I couldn't recall Regal's shenanigans in this match and altering of the rules. In fact, only he knows the rules. It's pretty shitty really, they work a simple match for a few minutes before Jericho hits the Lionsault and is about to go for the cover before 'time has run out in round one'. Jericho's pissed, then he makes Regal tap to the Walls, but the Dutchess says you can't win by submission. Then later Regal hits a low blow, but apparently there's no DQ. It's a complete clusterfuck, but kinda fun. Jericho finally loses it and locks the Dutchess in the Walls, before Regal clocks him with a few chair shots for the win. Maybe this type of match should make a return at Extreme Rules?  ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Angle from SummerSlam 2001 >>> Bret's amazing carryjob vs Smith.

imo


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I wholeheartedly agree, but Austin/Angle wasn't the main event sadly. I assumed ATF was talking about last match on the card.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Turns out that Bret's amazing carryjob is, bar Bret/Owen WM 10, the single greatest technical wrestling showcase in WWE history (at least in my opinion). Plus, Austin/Angle (sadly) wasn't the Main Event, and even if it was, I would've slightly prefered Bret/Bulldog anyways. Seriously, I HATED that ending.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think Austin/Angle has been discussed recently, but I personally think that's probably the best DQ ending ever. Though obviously, most DQ endings aren't great, this made total sense in the context of the story.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't even notice he specified via "main event". Only thought it said best match from the franchise.

ABH - along with Eddie vs JBL from Judgment Day 2004. Two non-finishes I can say had no negative effect on the matches at all.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It sure did, but I just felt like it was a major "That's it", after nearly 30 minutes of pure epicness. Imo Eddie/JBL JD and Orton/Christian MITB '11 are the best DQ finishes ever (yes, that made Christian look weak, but it was pure brilliance as far as booking for a heel strategy and Orton's character).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It only continued to aid in Austin's nutty heel work & Angle's ultimate desire to dethrone him. I love it.

I don't mind Christian winning via DQ. I only despise the lame beat-down suffered post match. That's what made Christian look like a chump.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good suggestions, JBL/Eddie is great too. Forgot about Orton/Christian, great heel booking. Any other great DQ finishes? Hard to recall.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Henry (SSlam 11)'s ending couldn't have done a better job at making both men look strong. Though that was a count out finish, not technically a DQ finish.

EDIT: Also remembered that Eddie/Rey JD had a nice DQ ending for what it was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Good suggestions, JBL/Eddie is great too. Forgot about Orton/Christian, great heel booking. Any other great DQ finishes? Hard to recall.


DQ finishes have to be well with the story, eh? Hmm.

I almost want to say Undertaker vs Angle from Smackdown '03, but that DQ finish was rather lazy outside of Brock being an epic unstoppable monster. It was rather "dusty" despite not necessarily hurting the match.

I know there is either none I can peg or it'll come to me far too long after this convo or if someone mentions one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I just watched Austin/Angle SSlam '01 for the sake of it. My general consensus was that, even though the ending was nicely booked, it was a major buzzkill to my liking of it. Now that I'm all grown up though, I finally, FINALLY, realized how awesome the ending really is. It made such a great job in making Austin (and the Alliance) look like supersmart heels and made Angle's thrive and rage for the gold much smoother and much more believable. I'm the biggest Austin mark in the world and I found myself sympathizing with Angle by the end of all of that. The wrestling was FLAWLESS, the psychology was almost flawless too for a fucking Kurt Angle match, the crowd was really into it... just spectacular. I know they didn't want a heel title retain via DQ to end the show, but fuck that this SHOULD'VE been the Main Event.

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2001, my newest entry into my ***** Match Club. :austin :kurt


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Clash of the CHampions XVII

Thomas Rich vs Big Josh *3/4
The Firecracker vs Bobby Eaton *3/4
Tom Zenk vs Diamond Studd 1/4*
Bad News vs Steve Austin **
Van Hammer vs Cactus Jack **
Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zybysko ****3/4
Brian Pillman vs Johnny B Badd *1/2
Sting vs Rick Rude **

Rick Steiner vs Lex Luger ***1/2
I didn't expect to like this match. I mean, it's 90s Luger up against a Steiner, and not the freak, but the dog. Very fun, flowed well and the ending was done perfectly. Now, to think whether to watch another Clash, or watch Superbrawl 8 as recommended.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> So I just watched Austin/Angle SSlam '01 for the sake of it. My general consensus was that, even though the ending was nicely booked, it was a major buzzkill to my liking of it. Now that I'm all grown up though, I finally, FINALLY, realized how awesome the ending really is. It made such a great job in making Austin (and the Alliance) look like supersmart heels and made Angle's thrive and rage for the gold much smoother and much more believable. I'm the biggest Austin mark in the world and I found myself sympathizing with Angle by the end of all of that. The wrestling was FLAWLESS, the psychology was almost flawless too for a fucking Kurt Angle match, the crowd was really into it... just spectacular. I know they didn't want a heel title retain via DQ to end the show, but fuck that this SHOULD'VE been the Main Event.
> 
> Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2001, my newest entry into my ***** Match Club. :austin :kurt


Awesome, great to hear. Definitely should have main evented, though it does make sense them not wanting to have a DQ finish to the card.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> So I just watched Austin/Angle SSlam '01 for the sake of it. My general consensus was that, even though the ending was nicely booked, it was a major buzzkill to my liking of it. Now that I'm all grown up though, I finally, FINALLY, realized how awesome the ending really is. It made such a great job in making Austin (and the Alliance) look like supersmart heels and made Angle's thrive and rage for the gold much smoother and much more believable. I'm the biggest Austin mark in the world and I found myself sympathizing with Angle by the end of all of that. The wrestling was FLAWLESS, the psychology was almost flawless too for a fucking Kurt Angle match, the crowd was really into it... just spectacular. I know they didn't want a heel title retain via DQ to end the show, but fuck that this SHOULD'VE been the Main Event.
> 
> Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2001, my newest entry into my ***** Match Club. :austin :kurt


:hb

Rock vs Booker didn't have a chance in hell in following that match. Doomed from the start.



Desecrated said:


> Clash of the CHampions XVII
> 
> Thomas Rich vs Big Josh *3/4
> The Firecracker vs Bobby Eaton *3/4
> ...


:mark: @ the Natural Dragons vs Enforcers tag. Hot dog, did that era ever breed some of the best tag team work in the whole of wrestling.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Rewatched Trips/Shawn from RAW in December 2003, Great SINGLES match which should of been more prevalent in the feud between these two, instead of an overkill with gimmick matches and what not. The actual wrestling is on point but i wasn't feeling the ending at all, but then again, I hate double pin finishes when the opponents shoulders are on the mat, cough *Cena/Punk NOC*. It did however make sense though, Shawn was scheduled for a LMS match at the Rumble and needed to be booked strongly. All in all, *****1/4*, Possibly a top 10 RAW match.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Now i'm watching *The Best Of In Your House*..fantastic set of matches.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

ratings for hbk/cena wrestlemania? i cant remembeer it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Very high :hmm:

for me: *****1/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Be quick with any lingering orders folks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

_Cena/HBK WM 23? ****1/2. Batista/Taker is regarded as MotN for Mania 23, but I held this one for higher regards. Yeah, it felt a bit overdramatic, but it was still amazing.
_
BTW, speaking of "overdramatic", me is going on a lil' rant here. And this rant is about a match I've finished rewatching, and I'm still in shock at how bad it was. I'm quite happy that here on this thread, I talk with people who REALLY know what they're talking about. Out there, there are people who give Lesnar/Cena no more than **** or ****1/4. There are people who consider fucking Bret/Shawn Iron Man, Angle/Benoit RR or even Savage/Steamboat (MOST OVERRATED MATCH EVER) the GOATS. But here's the difference maker - there are people out there who give ****+ ratings to ROCK/PUNK I. Yes, the Royal Rumble one. In fact, there are some people who consider it "a classic" and "the best match out of all that's WWE/TNA in January 2013", like this guy:






_Also "kudos" for having both Cena/Dolph matches rated so fucking highly..._

Personally, the Elimination Chamber one was more than fine, since it was everything I'd ask for in that situation - prime Punk vs banged up Rock couldn't really be any better than it was at EC. I actually regard that one at ****. However, the Rumble one was BLOODY AWFUL. I was hyper psyched for it, and I couldn't believe how much I couldn't care for what was happening, or how bored out of my ass I was. Many sloppy moments, many horrible transition and control segments, and the major spots (bar the Punk outside elbow drop, which looked cool) were all messed up or plain stupid. Rock was gassed before the match even begun, and was perhaps what doomed it - Punk is not the kind of guy that works slow paced matches, let alone against guys who can't cut a promo without sweating off every corner of their roided body, so even he was left in the high dry after the whole thing. The false finish was exciting, until the part that it was just Vince trolling the fuck out of everyone for the sakes of it. And the ending was Goddamn awful too - so Punk survived multiple AA's, lots of (kayfabe) painful submissions and even THE RYBACK back when he was unstoppable, and his title reign ends with a Spinebuster and a fucking People's Elbow? Bitch please. I've read somewhere out there that the People's Elbow finish was because "Punk disrespected people, and that it only made sense for Rock to beat him with that". Okay, but couldn't he have kicked out of a couple of Rock Bottoms before? Not to mention that Rock kicked out of Punk's Macho Man Elbow Drop, which looks FAR deadlier than the People's Elbow. Restholds? A dime dozen of them. Rock particularly no-sold some moves like the aforementioned Macho Man Elbow Drop. The crowd, bar the beggining, the false finish and the ending minutes, was DEAD. And the commentary was annoying too. The announce table (which was built by Sin Cara) was an accidental moment yeah, but it still took away for me, and what took me even more away was Rock compensating that by doing the Rock Bottom on the floor. Which was stupid. And why the hell was everybody (like Cole and Vinny) saying it was The Shield, when they couldn't see who was there? Did they have some nightvision or something to prove that WAS The Shield and not someone else who may have had a beef with Rock? This got so much wrong stuff there that I almost vomited after this match was over. *1/2* AT BEST* (which was thanks to one or two really cool looking moments). Up there with fucking Lesnar/Goldberg as the most dissapointing and the worst dream match ever. And I REALLY don't see why anyone would see this match as a classic, but well opinions are opinions.

...that was longer than I expected.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well said. Awful, awful match. Not even sure what I'd rate it, I just wanted to forget it after I'd re-watched it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The same guy who did that video also plugged a Top 15 February matches (in which he put Cena/Punk 2/29 as fucking *****. WOW.), and now a Top 15 of both March and April:






Shame there's no love for Shield/Cenell No, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tearing apart Punker vs Rock I. I love it. 

Deserves it for Rock being a walking pile of dung.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Significantly bringing down the quality of work for whoever he steps in the ring with?

Yeah, that's Rock for you.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Those videos must have been made by The_Birthday_Massacre, :lmao. He also said Punk/Cena from RAW this year was a ***** match, I told him it wasn't and began to point out some flaws within the match itself, like Cena's awful use of the count out rule and no sell moments throughout. He then proceeded to called me a Punk hater and i just :lol it off.

Plus, According to his logic, If a specific RAW match is in the top ten of RAW history, It has to be *****. fpalm.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao I remember arguing with guy in the the wwe section good times, he also was speak like 5 star matches were facts and set in stone. Oh yea I remember you arguing with him, I think he also said all 5 stars are equal too


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My five star matches are factual .

Watching the 2005 Rumble match now, always a fan.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

:lmao. Yep, Cena/Punk RAW 2013 is on par or even better than Austin/Bret, Shawn/Taker, Tully/Magnum, Benoit/Trips/Shawn, Rock/Austin etc.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

My Man ATF no love for steamboat/savage ? lol I can understand why some would view it as overrated or not as good as most believe, i guess reasons I love it is because its really that first great mania match, its the prototype in a sense, for the great Shawn michaels, Bret hart, Jericho etc matches to come and follow. It is choreographed extremely well, and it features two of the all time best. For a long time it really was "the greatest mania match"


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> *My five star matches are factual .*
> 
> Watching the 2005 Rumble match now, always a fan.


Cal's too, ***** for Lesnar/Angle Summerslam. :artest2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have BROCK/CENA at Five Stars.

I'm legit.

Bitches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

brock/cena ex 12
hhh/taker wm 28
hbk/taker 25
hbk/taker 26
hbk/taker BB 97 hiac
bret/stone cold wm 13
kurt/angle rr 03
savage/steamboat wm 3
in no order


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> I have BROCK/CENA at Five Stars.
> 
> I'm legit.
> 
> Bitches.


I have it at ****3/4, So no big deal. The ending is not what keeps it from being a ***** match, If you're wondering.

Brock returning to brutalise the face of the WWE and attempting to leave the company in a state of "slump" by legitimizing it with his ASS KICKING antics is the perfect story.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@redskins, don't need to worry since I enjoyed Savage/Steamboat quite a lot, I do think it's a great match 
However, I have it at no more than ****1/4. Yeah, I know it was the gate opener for all the Bret/Owens and the Taker/HBK's in the world. and I know that it WAS the original "greatest WM match", but the appeal of "Greatest match in history" that surrounds it is giving it WAAAAYYY too much credit. Surely one of the best matches of the 80's, however people tend to forget that NWA/Jim Crockett/Memphis had much better matches than that one throughout that time, only with much less exposure. Savage/Steamboat was just a showcase of what wrestling could really be, and even though it was great, I don't think it deserves anywhere near the ***** honors it constantly gets.

Oh, and Brock/Cena is ***** stuff. LEGIT BADASSNESS RIGHT THERE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rewatched Orton vs Mysterio from 7/4/06 yesterday and damn, I really love this match. Fun every single time and that's impressive for a 20 minute match that took place for no real reason. (Orton was the one who got pinned and wasn't entitled to a rematch yet he gets one right after?

Think I'm going to watch the street fight with Cody too. Orton's 2011 was a pretty good year, from the Punk matches to the Christian series and some good matches with Cody, Ziggler, Henry and I think even Barrett at one point here and there.



iwatchwrestling said:


> That Edge/Orton match from Raw 12/2004 is pretty nice.


Yep, extremely underrated.



KingOfKings said:


> These Eddie and GOAT segments are.... Well.... GOAT.


GUERRERO!



GOATAntics said:


> Better Wrestlemania Main Event, Rock/Austin WM17 or Shawn/Taker WM26 and why.


Rock vs Austin - WM17 is the greatest WM main event on par with the triple threat IMO. I think it's the pinnacle of the brawling Attitude Era style and they use all the time they get to perfection with excellent storytelling as Austin's desperation causes him to sell his soul to the devil.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Royal Rumble 2005*


Shawn Michaels vs Edge : *****

Casket Match - The Undertaker vs Heidenreich : *** 3/4*

WWE Championship - JBL(c) vs Kurt Angle vs The Big Show : **** 1/2*

World Heavyweight Championship - Triple H(c) vs Randy Orton : **** 1/2*

2005 Royal Rumble Match : ******


HBK-Edge held up much better on a rewatch for sure. Didn't like the opening minutes and felt it lacked intensity, but the latter half of the match I felt was fantastic with the stuff they were doing. The Sweet Chin Music into the electric chair was SEX as well as the spear near fall and ending in general. Michaels was okay in his role as the babyface here, and Edge was pretty good as the wired up heel. Is it just me, or did Edge always look like a crackhead during his 2005 heel run, pulling his hair out and shit? Yeah, this was real good.

The Casket match was GOOD, and that's all I can really say about it. The storytelling was there but the sloppiness of Heidenreich is so bad that I can't even begin to comprehend it to be honest. I LOVED the Kane-Snitsky nonsense as a kid and I still love it, as I just think it's cool as fuck when Kane and Taker do something together even though they've set each other on fire and Kane has buried Taker twice. The leg drop on the lid of the casket was brutal and shit, glad Taker gets to move onto better things after this... Oh wait, he faces Luther Reigns at the next PPV.

JBL escapes again; that was the story of his entire reign and they encapsulated it perfectly here. Angle kept his nonsense to an all time low here as he couldn't just go around delivering suplexes to everybody in sight. There's always some kind of chaotic feeling I get from this match, I don't know if it has to do with the tons of interference that leads to the blow off for JBL-Show a month later, or the barrier breaking and shit, but yeah this was awesome. Show was at an all time level of fatness at this point and was still awesome. 

You're a polarizing one, Mr. Game. Alot of people hate this match and I can kind of get where they're coming from, but I love the fuck out of it as a fan of the cerebral assassin. Triple H dominates Orton and attacks the leg, Orton makes a comeback, Triple H catches Orton, Orton gets a concussion, Trips wins semi clean. That's simple as fuck and while I deducted some points for not following up on the leg work and stuff, Orton's selling of the concussion was great and the methodical work from Hunter was great also.

The Rumble match from this show is one of my favorite ever. You had Benoit & Eddie beating down Puder, numerous set ups to future programs ala HBK-Angle, Flair GOATING it up with Batista, numerous comedy segments such as Simon Dean and Coach that were extremely effective, the finish with Batista and Cena, Vince beating the shit out of himself, Snitsky's clothesline to Paul London, the overall work of Guerrero/Benoit/Mysterio/Jericho/etc, and much much more. I hate throwing four stars at most rumble matches unless I think it's excellent throughout, but I don't think there was ever a dull moment with this one so it gets four from me. I need to compare it to the 04,06, & 07 rumbles ASAP.

*Overall Cal Scale Rating : 14*
​


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

RR 2005 as a whole is underrated as fuck, My ratings are as follow.

Edge/HBK *(***1/2)* (Went overboard with the 4 snowflakes, )
Taker/Heidenreich *(***1/4)*
JBL/Show/Angle *(***1/2)*
Orton/Trips *(****)* (Best non-gimmick singles match between these two)
Royal Rumble *(***3/4)* (HECTIC, FUN AND HILARIOUS)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

If Vince could have gotten up and no sold his quad tears, that would have been gold. :vince3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, I didn't even check out that guy's Top 15 matches at the end of the video.
(I'm counting his Top 15 of WWE, not counting TNA ones)
1 - Cena/Punk: *****
2 - Taker/Punk WM: ****1/2
3 - EC Match: ****1/2
4 - ADR/Ziggler ME: ****1/4
5 - Hell No & Taker/Shield: ****
6 - HHH/Lesnar II: ****
7 - Rock/Punk II: ****
8 - ADR/Ziggler SD: ****
9 - Punk/Rock I: ***3/4 (LOL seriously?)
10 - Cena/Ziggler 1st match of '13: ***3/4
11 - Jericho/Ziggler 4/22: ***3/4
12 - Show/ADR LMS I: ***3/4
13 - Shield/Justice League: ***3/4
14 - Punk/Jericho: ***3/4
15 - Bryan/Jericho: ***1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching NO WAY OUT now.

God Eddie was awesome in that opening tag team match, such a fucking beast. He knew his character so well and used it to be extremely creative in his matches. The double tag rope spot was excellent as well as the sequence of shenanigans used to end the match. I love how Rey is opposed to cheating at first but towards the end of it he's all ........... FUCK THIS and tosses Eddie the tag belt. Awesome, AWESOME tag match with Rey being pretty much the perfect babyface in peril.

YES. We know that guy's ratings are shitty, can we PLEASE not give that stupid human being who gave both Rock/Punk I & II good ratings some un-needed attention ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even though i like the Heidenreich matches per say, it still annoys me how they still used Taker back then, sticking him with people who were big, were not that good, ten years after Taker was first lumbered with fuckers like that.

'06 esp alot of missed opportunities, he did have match with Cena FFS on Raw, cold have not gone anywhere, or was it something to do with the brand split.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Handsome Randy Orton selling a concussion = GOAT!

And just rewatched the Cody Rhodes street fight too. Still awesome and even better than I remember it. ★★★¾ for this one.



zep81 said:


> Even though i like the Heidenreich matches per say, it still annoys me how they still used Taker back then, sticking him with people who were big, were not that good, ten years after Taker was first lumbered with fuckers like that.
> 
> '06 esp alot of missed opportunities, he did have match with Cena FFS on Raw, cold have not gone anywhere, or was it something to do with the brand split.


Agreed completely. So many missed opportunities with Taker during those years. It still annoys me that he never got the chance to work a real program with Eddie and Benoit. But at least he had that awesome feud with Orton so I guess I have to give WWE some credit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Agreed completely. So many missed opportunities with Taker during those years. It still annoys me that he never got the chance to work a real program with Eddie and Benoit. But at least he had that awesome feud with Orton so I guess I have to give WWE some credit.


Yeah mate, thanks fuck for the Orton feud and the NWO match with Angle, i did kinda like where they were going in terms of the Kennedy feud, but there is still too much mediocre crap thrown in for good measure too. :argh:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Do you think Taker/Eddie may have been a proposed match for WM22 had Eddie not passed away?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Do you think Taker/Eddie may have been a proposed match for WM22 had Eddie not passed away?


I did read that may have been Eddie/HBK.....i think


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Do you think Taker/Eddie may have been a proposed match for WM22 had Eddie not passed away?


Nope. I think he would've either been in the World Title scene or the interpromotional match with HBK that has been talked about over the years. That's a match that should've been done in 2004 or 05 while Eddie was heel. Would have loved seeing Taker challenge for the title around Great American Bash 04 time. Instead they had that stupid cement truck thing going on.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Checked out the Shield match from RAW after seeing the ratings on here. Shouldn't be surprised by high ratings for a Shield match on here. 

**3/4 - ***

Another Shield match that's been a tad overrated. Good tag match, again, nothing special. Nothing new, either. But damn, Bryan's current look is hideous. Only real gem in this one is Cena and his selling of his injured ankle. Good story told there. Taking the pin made complete sense.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

KingOfKings said:


> YES. We know that guy's ratings are shitty, can we PLEASE not give that stupid human being who gave both Rock/Punk I & II good ratings some un-needed attention ?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Checked out the Shield match from RAW after seeing the ratings on here. Shouldn't be surprised by high ratings for a Shield match on here.
> 
> **3/4 - ***
> 
> Another Shield match that's been a tad overrated. Good tag match, again, nothing special. Nothing new, either. But damn, Bryan's current look is hideous. Only real gem in this one is Cena and his selling of his injured ankle. Good story told there. Taking the pin made complete sense.


Agreed. I really like The Shield, but their matches are getting a little overrated on here. Same formula in most matches and the 6 man format is getting a little stale. I think due to The Shield being undefeated, going over top guys, and the fact they're all good talents, it makes people mark out for all their matches and overrate things just a bit. 

And Bryan's current look is awful. It's not just the unkept hair, and homeless man looking beard, it's the fact he looks tubby and much worse than he used to look.

Bryan's best look (last year as World Champion):










Bryan's worst look (current):


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Bryan looks like a legit bad ass in the first pic. But lol at Mark Henry standing on the title.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I agree. The big beard was fun at first but it's got a little stale. It's his face though, so I guess if he likes it he can keep it. I have noticed him getting a little tubby (though that's probably the wrong word to use). Agree that the first picture Nostalgia posted is probably his best look.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Nostalgia said:


> Agreed. I really like The Shield, but their matches are getting a little overrated on here. Same formula in most matches and the 6 man format is getting a little stale. I think due to The Shield being undefeated, going over top guys, and the fact they're all good talents, it makes people mark out for all their matches and overrate things just a bit.


I thought the same thing. Part of me thinks that those who are wanting Shield to have this incredible track record of great matches that are nearing four stars, are letting that get in the way of seeing the matches for what they really are. Don't get me wrong, they are very impressive with their matches, but their matches are getting a bit stale and as you said, they follow the same formula. Four stars? The only one I could legit give four stars to is their match from TLC. 

And agreed on Bryan. That look was great for him, takes me back to 05. Now, he looks ridiculous.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In case anyone missed this rare match:

*Undertaker and Eddie Guerrero vs John Bradshaw Layfield and Orlando Jordan*






Was posted by another member


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Agree completely. Bryan needs to trim the beard down. That first pic is exactly how he should keep his look. The hair and over-the-top homeless man beard is just annoying and ugly.

And also agree on Shield's matches being overrated. It's the same formula every time and the only real CLASSIC match they have had is the first one from TLC. Then the EC and Taker matches are both pretty good and deserving of praise as well. The rest is just same shit, different day against different people. (the shit is not bad!) Their track record is pretty strong, though. Look at all the top guys they've gone over: Cena, Ryback, Orton, Sheamus, Taker, Kane, Bryan, Jericho, Big Show.

*Mr. Kennedy vs Chris Benoit - (Smackdown 13/10/2006)*
- Benoit is back on Smackdown and if Kennedy can defeat him too, he's free to go to Raw. But not so soon as Benoit is intense as ever and on top of his game despite having just returned. Physical and intense on the offense, he controls the first half of the match and never gives Kennedy as much a break when he tries to keep some distance. But then Kennedy has the heel control segment which slows down the pace and gives him some offense to even it out. But the hilarious part is the finishing stretch as Kennedy has Benoit in an armbar then Undertaker's music hits and he just walks out which distracts Kennedy and causes Benoit to go all out with Germans and eventually the Crossface to win by submission and become the new US Champion. It was hilarious seeing Benoit give Kennedy a bunch of Germans with Taker's music playing in the background. And then, once the match is over, Taker just disappears as Benoit celebrates his victory. Very good match with plenty of time plus Benoit and Undertaker are in the same place even though they no-sell each other completely! ★★★¾


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think the recent Shield match deserved it's praise since it definitely had some new elements. Cena being involved with his injured ankle and Hell No not wanting to tag him in was great. Kane looking to avenge his brother's beatdown and almost getting DQ'd added to the match, and of course you had your typical awesome Shield control segment, where they look totally in sync. Good ending too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On re-watches of the last two Shield matches, both dropped a little. Last week's with Taker gets **** and this week's gets *** now. This week's is probably the weakest big Shield match to date imo. TBH, I probably give it 1/4* more than I would just for the fact Cena got pinned.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Going for some Yeah1993 inspired Youtube adventures with Carlito.

Carlito vs Shelton Benjamin - Raw 20/06/05
This is Carlito's first match after being drafted to Raw, it starts with Carlito doing the usual heel Schick of rolling out of the ring until Benjamin goes for a dive to the outside and catches his foot on the top rope and almost kills himself. I'm loving the commentators referring to him as "Caribbean Cool" Carlito, nothing much is happening until Benjamin goes tot he top rope and nearly falls off, is he drunk? A bunch of near falls until Carlito gets the win after he uses the ropes for leverage during a rollup.

Carlito vs. Primo - Superstars 21/05/10
This is Carlito's last match with the WWE, he's getting a decent amount of heat but I suspect this is just edited in. In the opening 2-3 minutes there is literally 5-6 cover attempts and it just doesn't let the match flow very well, things start to pick up with Primo hitting some high flying offense until Carlito stops him dead in his tracks. You can tell that by this point Carlito pretty much doesn't give a shit and is just going through the motions, the commentators are too busy listing the reasons why Michael Tarver sucks to bother calling the match. Carlito looks like he's going to go for the backstabber until he stops and tries to convince Primo to join the dark side and team up again, Primo agrees and they both walk out. Why was Carlito released anyway because this seems pretty strange that they would start a story line just for them to release him, I'm guessing it was a spur of the moment kind of thing.

Carlito vs Chris Masters - Raw 08/01/07
This the rematch from New Years Revolution, Carlito starts to attack Masters before the bell is rung and the match starts off with punches flying everywhere. Carlito then goes for a crossbody and keeps up fast paced offense until Masters slams him hard. Here comes Torrie Wilson who is apparently Carlito's "Special friend" I have no idea as I wasn't watching around this time, meanwhile Masters is controlling the match and dominating Carlito with not one but two bear hugs. King & JR are talking about how much better the ref is than in the previous match as Carlito rakes the eyes of Masters and gets away with it :lmao. He then doesn't see Torrie hit Masters with the ring bell either, good job ref, A backcracker later and we're done.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey my SV order arrived this afternoon . Might watch SummerSlam 04 first. HHH/EUGENE! UNDERTAKER/JBL! ORTON/BENOIT! DIVA DODGEBALL!!!!!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I agree. The big beard was fun at first but it's got a little stale. It's his face though, so I guess if he likes it he can keep it. I have noticed him getting a little tubby (though that's probably the wrong word to use). Agree that the first picture Nostalgia posted is probably his best look.


His World Champion look was the best. The shaved head, the trimed beard and the good physique - made you buy him more as a credible contender. Now he looks like a walking joke. 

Apparently Bryan likes the beard and so does Brie, god knows why :|. And Bryan claimed he was going to grow it out for the whole of 2013, which could happen, but if he gets a gimmick change this year then he'll probably shave it off. 

I couldn't think of the right word to describe's Bryan's physique atm, so I went with tubby.  All I know is he's not in the shape he used to be and he's looking tubby around the waist and legs. Some excuses I've heard from his marks is: he's probably not motivated to stay in shape with the way they're booking him, others will say him changing his diet by eating meat again is the reason, whatever it is I don't care, but as a WWE superstar you've got to keep in the best shape possible. Look at someone like Cody Rhodes who's getting booked worse than Bryan but is still in top shape, look at Cesaro, or Ziggler. Bryan should take notes.



Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I thought the same thing. Part of me thinks that those who are wanting Shield to have this incredible track record of great matches that are nearing four stars, are letting that get in the way of seeing the matches for what they really are. Don't get me wrong, they are very impressive with their matches, but their matches are getting a bit stale and as you said, they follow the same formula. Four stars? The only one I could legit give four stars to is their match from TLC.
> 
> And agreed on Bryan. That look was great for him, takes me back to 05. Now, he looks ridiculous.





Choke2Death said:


> Agree completely. Bryan needs to trim the beard down. That first pic is exactly how he should keep his look. The hair and over-the-top homeless man beard is just annoying and ugly.
> 
> And also agree on Shield's matches being overrated. It's the same formula every time and the only real CLASSIC match they have had is the first one from TLC. Then the EC and Taker matches are both pretty good and deserving of praise as well. The rest is just same shit, different day against different people. (the shit is not bad!) Their track record is pretty strong, though. Look at all the top guys they've gone over: Cena, Ryback, Orton, Sheamus, Taker, Kane, Bryan, Jericho, Big Show.


Agreed!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Btw, which one do you think it's PPV of the year so far?

To me, I think I might go with EC. Only know that RR is NOT EVEN CLOSE.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

The majority of the Shield matches have been good but I agree that the most recent ones have been a tad...overhyped. I was especially baffled that so many people were going crazy over Taker vs. Ambrose(Smackdown main event) on other boards. The match was okay but I thought Swagger vs. Del Rio(NO DQ match on the same show) easily surpassed it but not that many people talked about that match.

As far as the Shield match on the last Raw it was good but Cesaro vs. Del Rio was MOTN for me on that show. I thought the Shield match with Taker/Kane/Bryan was good too but I don't know I guess I wasn't feeling it as much as some people. The TLC Match was crazy though, absolutely insane.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

'Mania. All were pretty poor, but Undertaker vs Punk put Wrestlemania above the other two.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Speaking of Mania, even though overall I was underwhelmed with the show, one of the things I really liked that doesn't get talked about much is CM Punk's special entrance:






I loved it. Always liked the song from the first time I heard it playing on the Radio X radio station on GTA San Andreas in like 2006. Always thought it suited Punk perfectly and I was real hyped when I heard the rumors that Living Colour was going to perform at Mania, didn't believe it at first. Was a real cool surprise to see it happen, a great entrance for a great match. I'm wondering Choke2death, what did you think of it? Even though you're not a fan of Punk I know you like the song from GTA. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I love that song. Great performance, great band, great entrance. Punk vs Undertaker is one of those parts of the show where everything came together perfectly. I may not like Punk but I always give credit where it's due.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

I liked it yeah, I think he was one of the few to have a special entrance this year. Along with Swagger(which we couldn't see), Fandango, and of course this...








The creatures of the night? Walking Dead reference? Or were they to symbolized all the souls Taker had taken at Mania in previous years? Either way it looked cool.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Btw, which one do you think it's PPV of the year so far?
> 
> To me, I think I might go with EC. Only know that RR is NOT EVEN CLOSE.


Totally the Rumble. :side:

In all seriousness, maybe EC? Mania had Taker/Punk and I enjoyed HHH/Lesnar, but everything else was average at best. EC had a good chamber match and a great Shield match too. I'm not sure. Isn't it funny that all three PPVs have had awful main events?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Totally the Rumble. :side:
> 
> In all seriousness, maybe EC? Mania had Taker/Punk and I enjoyed HHH/Lesnar, but everything else was average at best. EC had a good chamber match and a great Shield match too. I'm not sure. Isn't it funny that all three PPVs have had awful main events?


I dug the EC main event :side:

Either way, you shouldn't be surprised since all of them featured Rock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hmmm... All 3 PPV main events so far have sucked giant balls. All 3 main events have been Rock matches. 

I'm almost positive there is some kind of connection there, but I can't quite see it...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Disagree completely with the talk about The Shield over the last couple pages. I plan on giving their most recent match another watch sometime soon but on first viewing I thought it was great. So what if they work a general formula in all their matches? Their all consuming, overwhelming, work as a unit style gets me every time, and from match to match they highlight the individual skills of one member. Sometimes it's Ambrose with his eccentricity and little touches, sometimes it's Reigns being a BEAST, sometimes it's Rollins with his bumping and athleticism. I thought the 6 man on Monday was different to all of their matches so far. Had more of a personal feel to it between them and Team Hell No, with Kane trying to hand out a measure of revenge as opposed to just handing them their first loss which is what every other team has tried to do. Cena's injury added another element to it as well and I thought it told a good story, along with strong action and nice pacing. Maybe I'll think less of it on a re-watch but I sure hope not because I really fucking liked it.

BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> I dug the EC main event :side:
> 
> Either way, you shouldn't be surprised since all of them featured Rock.





Big Z said:


> Hmmm... All 3 PPV main events so far have sucked giant balls. All 3 main events have been Rock matches.
> 
> I'm almost positive there is some kind of connection there, but I can't quite see it...


Lol, yeah I was implying something too...


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Totally the Rumble. :side:
> 
> In all seriousness, maybe EC? Mania had Taker/Punk and I enjoyed HHH/Lesnar, but everything else was average at best. EC had a good chamber match and a great Shield match too. I'm not sure. *Isn't it funny that all three PPVs have had awful main events*?


:rock -

"it's hilarious"


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't enjoyed any of the PPVs this year too much. Mania is the show of the year so far pretty much by default.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Yey my SV order arrived this afternoon . Might watch SummerSlam 04 first. HHH/EUGENE! UNDERTAKER/JBL! ORTON/BENOIT! DIVA DODGEBALL!!!!!


I absolutely caned sv a couple of months backs, bought about £150 worth of WWE dvds. Did you get the Summerslam volume IV box set or just 04 by itself? The box sets were like £10 each, down from £30. They were selling out fast though.

I think I remember you saying that had the Mania XVII tagged classic dvd. I know that it seems like a small thing to ask, but does that version include "my way" in the promo packages? The Mania volume III box set included a heavily edited version of that show, so instead they had some crappy "adrenaline rush" song instead. I was disappointed to say the least.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Shield's match at TLC was legit, ****. Their match with Undertaker was also great at ***3/4. But that's as far as I would go for their matches that I consider great. Everything else is just well around *** or under. Their worst is probably their 'Mania match. Short, dull, bland. Didn't like it.

Punk's entrance at Wrestlemania was awesome. Everything about that match was fantastic. Ever since he debuted Cult of Personality in '11, I was hoping they'd bring in Living Colour. Because I knew they were still active and I knew if asked, the band would do it. I expected it at 'Mania XXVIII and ended up being disappointed it didn't happen. But I'll gladly take this year, they fucking killed it with that performance.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> I absolutely caned sv a couple of months backs, bought about £150 worth of WWE dvds. Did you get the Summerslam volume IV box set or just 04 by itself? The box sets were like £10 each, down from £30. They were selling out fast though.
> 
> I think I remember you saying that had the Mania XVII tagged classic dvd. I know that it seems like a small thing to ask, but does that version include "my way" in the promo packages? The Mania volume III box set included a heavily edited version of that show, so instead they had some crappy "adrenaline rush" song instead. I was disappointed to say the least.


Yeah, i bought the Summerslam Anthologies Volumes 1+2 when they were on sale, although i have the Tagged Classics versions too,

Pretty sure the WM17 TC is fully unedited from what i remember, although i do have the original WWF DVD release too...

Put my last SV order in today, couple of remaining Tagged Classics and a couple of '11 PPV's. Sad day.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Shield's match at TLC was legit, ****. Their match with Undertaker was also great at ***3/4. But that's as far as I would go for their matches that I consider great. Everything else is just well around *** or under. Their worst is probably their 'Mania match. Short, dull, bland. Didn't like it.


Agreed about their Mania match being the weakest of the lot, but it's still good/very good imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Be quick with any lingering orders folks.


This is making me panic. I feel like I should buy everything but I'm not even sure if I want anything else. 8*D

Shield aren't being overrated imo. They're just _that _good. Not a match under the ***** mark with their best outing at TLC coming in at *****1/2* for me. I love the utter chaotic and unhinged nature they bring to the table. It's fantastic to watch. All 3 of them have such distinctive styles, at least, they're on their way to developing them, and yet put them together and it's just magic. They're a breath of fresh air in that company right now and deserve all the praise thrown their way. Agreed with *Saint Dick* in the sense that they may work a formula in their matches but it's no different to everybody else working formulas in their matches and more importantly than that, it _works_. Can't wait to see what their match at ER eventually ends up being.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imma rewatch every Shield match so far. Already did the TLC one, which was MAD. ****1/2 as original.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Shield's match at TLC was legit, ****. Their match with Undertaker was also great at ***3/4. But that's as far as I would go for their matches that I consider great. Everything else is just well around *** or under. *Their worst is probably their 'Mania match. *Short, dull, bland. Didn't like it.


I would say that one but then I remembered that thy had match on Raw against the team of Khali, Zack Ryder and I think Justin Gabriel.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Love literally EVERYTHING they've done, including the excellent and underrated Main Event tag from a few weeks ago, just quality up and down. The Shield is a special case of having a formula and changing it up depending on the opponent. They make it work with whoever they're going against and they're easily the best thing going both character wise and quality wise today, especially with Punk being injured and taking time off. They stole the show at TLC & Elimination Chamber while accumulating fantastic TV matches and the second best match at Wrestlemania to supplement it.

They just make things happen, and that's really hard to complain about.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

* Shield vs. Team Hell No & Ryback at TLC '12. ★★★★1/2
* Shield vs. Cena, Sheamus & Ryback at Elimination Chamber '13. ★★★1/2
* Shield vs. Sheamus, Ryback & Jericho on Raw 2/18/13. ★★★3/4
* Shield vs. Orton, Sheamus & Show at WrestleMania 29. ★★★
* Shield vs. Undertaker & Team Hell No on Raw 4/23/13. ★★★3/4
* Shield vs. Cena & Team Hell No on Raw 4/29/13. ★★★1/2

BELIEVE IN THE SHIELD. rollins:reigns



Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Shield's match at TLC was legit, ****. Their match with Undertaker was also great at ***3/4. But that's as far as I would go for their matches that I consider great. Everything else is just well around *** or under. *Their worst is probably their 'Mania match.* Short, dull, bland. Didn't like it.


I'd agree with you if it weren't for their Raw 3/25/13 match with Ryder, Gabriel & Khali. Ugh. Wasn't no point of that.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Do yourself a favor and check out Kidman & Mysterio vs. WGTT from 8/14/03. It's FANTASTIC. (_marks at the fact that I get to pimp it out even more_)


Just gave this match another watch. It still holds up. Awesome match. I love the finish to the match so much. Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas' consistency that year is amazing. :mark:

Speaking of pimping out gems, I recommend giving Raven vs Rhyno at Backlash 2001 a watch. Seriously.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

More people should definitely watch the Main Event tag KoK is on about.

I feel like I should buy more from Silvervision but ive already got a ton of stuff sat at home for when i finish uni, including Rey's biggest little man set :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, that SD match was awesome, but imo Vengeance was better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shepard said:


> More people should definitely watch the Main Event tag KoK is on about.
> 
> I feel like I should buy more from Silvervision but ive already got a ton of stuff sat at home for when i finish uni, including *Rey's biggest little man set* :mark:


:mark: Get on that set ASAP, one of, could be argued the GOAT WWE DVD Set, blinding


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

fuck it, picked up the Streak blu ray, KOTR blu ray and JOHN MORRISONs DVD. That buy 2 get 1 free offer is evil.


----------



## Meki (Dec 25, 2011)

Shepard said:


> fuck it, picked up the Streak blu ray, KOTR blu ray and JOHN MORRISONs DVD. That buy 2 get 1 free offer is evil.


Same here. (buy one get one free though) I bought CM Punk's DVD and the Streak 


Sent from my GT-S7500 using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shepard said:


> That buy 2 get 1 free offer is evil.


This, this, fucking THIS. I'm the same. I feel like I should be buying everything even though I don't necessarily want anything. It's weird.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im glad i have pretty much all the Tagged Classics off there, and the Superstar/3 Disc Sets (only ones i didnt bother with were the Big Show/Cena/Orton ones), esp the TC's as im sure the prices will go up even more on Amazon etc soon enough.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Yeah, that SD match was awesome, but imo Vengeance was better.


For some reason, I don't remember their Vengeance match. Gonna check that match out now.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


>


:clap

Just awesomely epic.


----------



## Meki (Dec 25, 2011)

Thoughts on both the Streak and CM Punk's DVD, guys?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk's DVD is superb. One of WWE's best. The streak is solid enough, what you'd expect really. You get all the matches and interviews with people talking about Taker's legacy. They're both good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

THE TEACHER said:


> Thoughts on both the Streak and CM Punk's DVD, guys?


*Streak DVD* - Even though i bought it (yeah im a Taker mark), bit pointless IMHO as i own the Mania's anyways, plus im pretty sure the matches doesnt include any promos/build up videos or anything, plus the blurring in the late 90's matches (like WM14). Still good to have for convenience when wanting to watch a streak match 

*Punk DVD* - One of the best, great doc, decent selection of matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

punk's entrance was my favorite mania entrance since hbk's for wm 14


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I LOVED The Shield's debut match at the TLC PPV. That match became my MOTY for 2012 for a reason. I watched it like 7 times and I enjoyed it thoroughly on every watch, something you can't say about many matches. Then they followed it up with solid showings at EC and WM. But after that I haven't been digging the matches as much, they've still been good, but the same 6 man format and the lack of direction of The Shield has become a little stale for me. Having The Shield in singles matches like Undertaker vs Ambrose really freshens things up a bit, and with The Shield feuding with Team Hell No I hope this means The Shield will win the Tag Titles soon (probably at Extreme Rules) and then they'll have some more direction and can dominate the Tag Division. Having The Shield defend the titles with two members in a standard tag match is something different from all the 6 man bouts, and that's welcome from me. Ideally, I have Ambrose and Rollins win the belts and Reigns and keep his role as the group's enforcer, or you could have any member of The Shield defend the belts with the Freebird Rule. Some good possibilities if they win belts. The tag belts have really lost their meaning in recent years, and I think putting the belts on the most dominate force in the WWE today could help the belts and division out. 



Choke2Death said:


> I love that song. Great performance, great band, great entrance. Punk vs Undertaker is one of those parts of the show where everything came together perfectly. I may not like Punk but I always give credit where it's due.


Props. (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> punk's entrance was my favorite mania entrance since *hbk's for wm 14*


GOAT

"I'M THE FUCKIN MAN"


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

I miss coke-a-mania :hbk


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ exactly lol best part of the match for me and the walking in the tunnel with trips flipping off the camera guy


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just to chime in on the Shield for a second, what's made their run awesome thus far is the assortment of 6-person tags they've run through. Despite many of the combinations being nearly identical, they tweak the teams just enough so that the matches are fresh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> I absolutely caned sv a couple of months backs, bought about £150 worth of WWE dvds. Did you get the Summerslam volume IV box set or just 04 by itself? The box sets were like £10 each, down from £30. They were selling out fast though.
> 
> I think I remember you saying that had the Mania XVII tagged classic dvd. I know that it seems like a small thing to ask, but does that version include "my way" in the promo packages? The Mania volume III box set included a heavily edited version of that show, so instead they had some crappy "adrenaline rush" song instead. I was disappointed to say the least.


I don't have the tagged classic version of WM 17, I have the original release . But I would assume the TC version has it since TC's are completely unedited and unaltered from the original releases. Not that it matters too much now since it went out of stock a looong time ago on SV and the price will likely go up on it now .

Just got SS 04 on its own. I'm not a fan of most SS events so I never attempted to buy the box sets. Same for Survivor Series. Only a few here and there over the years that have been any good.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Just to chime in on the Shield for a second, what's made their run awesome thus far is the assortment of 6-person tags they've run through. Despite many of the combinations being nearly identical, they tweak the teams just enough so that the matches are fresh.


Agreed on this. Problem with WWE typically is they seemingly rush everything on a week to week basis and devalue the importance of certain acts. With The Shield them only having 3 matches between December-March (competitive, not really counting the squashes of Gabriel & co on Raw & Main Event) in the build up to Wrestlemania protected their image and drew you as a viewer into wanting to see them wrestle. Now they've been able to run 2 6 mans back to back in the space of a week alongside two Ambrose singles matches and their aura and image remains unaffected because now you're seeing them on a more regular basis as opposed to have them wrestling numerous matches by December last year and lessening the impact of them actually wrestling a match.

I do worry long term where the direction will go storyline wise as there's significant potential and I just hope WWE find a way to advance them from where they are now into additional programs as well as focusing on developing each character. The idea of them winning titles and slowly moving up the card and 'rebranding WWE by tightening their grip' is an intriguing premise and could make up for the continued 'justice' spiel which hasn't been as followed up on.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/nash GFBE ***1/4 - hbk got the most out of the big stiff, I agree with flair nash had zero in the ring


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Agreed on this. Problem with WWE typically is they seemingly rush everything on a week to week basis and devalue the importance of certain acts. With The Shield them only having 3 matches between December-March (competitive, not really counting the squashes of Gabriel & co on Raw & Main Event) in the build up to Wrestlemania protected their image and drew you as a viewer into wanting to see them wrestle. Now they've been able to run 2 6 mans back to back in the space of a week alongside two Ambrose singles matches and their aura and image remains unaffected because now you're seeing them on a more regular basis as opposed to have them wrestling numerous matches by December last year and lessening the impact of them actually wrestling a match.
> 
> I do worry long term where the direction will go storyline wise as there's significant potential and I just hope WWE find a way to advance them from where they are now into additional programs as well as focusing on developing each character. The idea of them winning titles and slowly moving up the card and 'rebranding WWE by tightening their grip' is an intriguing premise and could make up for the continued 'justice' spiel which hasn't been as followed up on.


I'm worried about their future direction as well because they're on the cusp on becoming tag champs and while the idea of them working the 'Freebird Rule' interests me greatly, the tag team pool is so deluded that I'm worried they're gonna fall the same way as the IC and US Champion; just working meaningless matches every week that do more damage than good. We need something like Jericho and Christian hooking up to feud with the Shield once they become tag champs.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I was going to say since the tag team division is pretty much non existant that having The Shield as champs and having midcard/uppercard guys forge alliances to try and overcome them could be a really interesting direction for the division. Gives Jericho, Christian, Bryan, Sheamus, Orton etc some much needed direction in light of not being in the title picture, allows The Shield to continue to be used well in a prominent spot on the card and raises their overall image with guys uniting to try and take the belts off of them and in the meantime if WWE were competent they could look at slowly calling up NXT tag teams or start forging a new tag team together, give them wins in the undercard and then maybe run a program against The Shield with the face tag team claiming to be a better unit and more of a match since they're an actual team and not just individuals uniting for a common cause.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Shield/Ryback,Team Hell No ****
Shield/Taker,Team Hell No ***1/2

The rest of their matches have been ok to me.
Don't care about them winning the tag titles as WWE seems hell bent on using tag teams to get crushed by big wrestlers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There hasn't been a single bad Shield match out there. _(even the squashes were effective)_ None are overrated either. Noticed some people making that claim are some who's said they don't care for tag team wrestling much. Tis a shame. It's an art form that should always be appreciated. Ignore WWE's fallacies on making those ranks terrible. Believe in tag team wrestling. Believe in the The Shield.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry, ECW (8/19/08)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/Mark+Henry+vs+Matt+Hardy/1#video=x6hq6z

Great match which again makes me question why people consider Matt Hardy anything below good as a worker and why people were so surprised by Henry's 2011 domination as he again demonstrates that it wasn't just '06 in which he displayed immense potential. Match features a great running narrative of Hardy trying to hit the Twist of Fate on Henry after losing by DQ at Summerslam, only for Henry to continually escape by the skin of his teeth. Matt picks apart Henry's leg as a backup plan and Henry's selling is just super. Hobbles about, grimaces in agony when he can be afforded a break and there's a great spot where Henry just mows through an oncoming Hardy to seize control before nearly collapsing to the mat due to his bum leg. He works over Hardy well including a nice touch where they show a delayed suplex where it appears Henry lifts his bad leg in the air well below dropping down to again play up the leg issues. Hardy bumps and flies around for everything effortlessly and puts together a really frantic and energetic comeback where you feel his momentum and exictement build with each blow he lands. Absolutely loved Hardy elbowing Henry's injured leg to break up a submission hold and the finish is really well done with Atlas pulling Hardy off the cover, leading to Hardy going for a moonsault and eating knees right in the face before Henry captialises and plants him with the World's Strongest Slam to again overcome Matt. Great babyface & heel performances respectively, very consistent and smart selling by Henry and a hot crowd who become unglued near the end. Great TV match.


*Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Smackdown (11/9/07)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/Finlay+vs+Rey+Mysterio/1#video=x3fq6r

Haven't seen the 3/24/06 match in a long time but atm I feel this is probably their best effort together. Great usage of the default Mysterio TV formula and packed full of great Finlay work and consistent struggle for control. Some people might take issue with the chippy nature of the match and the stop/start in terms of control but I always prefer this frantic environment in a Finlay match as so much charm in the character is seeing him take as much as he gives. Here he eats all of Mysterio's offence terrificly, covering up for each strike and bumping tremendously for the aerial offence as well. Transition spot is as nasty as the ugliest bird in a Yates bar with Finlay just countering a hurricanrana and throwing Mysterio head first into the turnbuckle. Finlay in control is as strong as you'd expect given how Finlay excels in control as well as Mysterio does working underneath. I'll never tire of Finlay bodyslamming his opponents into the ropes to force their body to contort at an awkward angle. It just distinguishes his act and work from everyone else and is such a unique way to work a bodypart. Mysterio has some great frantic attempts at a comeback and I loved how they had him continue to hit his offence largely untroubled but paced far slower to put over the effort it took out of his back to hit each one: was a smart way to keep him mobile and add a frantic pace to the finish without lessening Finlay's control work. Finlay's counter lariat was straight up hideous and the finish is perfectly done with Finlay ultimately having the 619 and follow up countered by hitting the ropes as Rey springboards before hitting the celtic cross for the win. Strong match.


*Rey Mysterio vs JBL, Judgement Day (5/21/06)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/jbl+vs+rey+mysterio/1#video=x10wro

Do people still think JBL was useless and not a good worker? Because if so people need to watch matches like this because he's great here. Total scumbag sleazeball performance here that adds so much to the story. He potatoes Rey with punches, piefaces him to the mat, lowblows him to counter a bronco buster, pokes him in the eye to break up a strike flurry even after he's cut open Rey's forehead, shows off his bloodied knuckle to Rey's wife at ringside, pounces at her and forces her to sit back down in fear and to top it all off he blows a kiss at her mid match. What a dick. Oh yeah he also does the three amigos spot and Eddie's classic chest slapping pose afterwards to reinforce how much of a prick he is. JBL just rules in control here though. Nasty and vicious strikes that complimented by Rey's brilliant selling sets up what appears to be the ultimate uphill task for Mysterio. Loved some of JBL's simple but brutal counters with the hideous big boot square in the noggin' standing out from the rest of the pack. Mysterio was really great as the heroic babyface trying to stay in the match long enough to capitalise on JBL's arrogance and I adored him distracting the referee long enough to hit a baseball slide to JBL's dynamic duo in the corner. Normally I'd be apathetic to a babyface blatantly cheating like that but JBL is such a loathesome prick that it works as a comeuppance spot. Finish was a tad anticlimatic and felt a tad rushed in comparison to what it could have been, aka more JBL nearfalls and a more drawn out Mysterio onslaught but in the grand context it wasn't too bothersome. Poor Charles Robinson gets nuked with a stiff JBL punch during the finish as well. 


Also Cody's point about tag team wrestling reminds me to share my thoughts on an overlooked tag:

*MNM vs Rey Mysterio & Batista, (Smackdown 12/30/05)*

Amazing STF match here. People often bring up great tag teams and honestly, has there been a better tag team since the Rockers in the WWE than MNM? People point to the Hardyz, Dudleys and E&C but none of those teams, especially the Dudleys and E&C as heels could work a match quite like MNM. Match is entirely layed out like a great STF match should be, and when you've got great babyfaces like Mysterio and Batista who are complimented by great heels in MNM its a formula which can't fail. Extended babyface opening has a nice flow to it and everything is hit well enough with Mysterio in particular having a tremendous headscissors on Nitro which looked insane. Nitro to his credit also has this brilliant subtle spot where he breaks up a Mysterio cover and then shits himself when he eyes Batista about to enter the ring. In fairness the way they built up the power of Batista at the beginning and end of the match really should be credited, since it made the FIP section all the more pivotal to the match.

Transition spot is beautiful with Mercury distracting Mysterio long enough for Nitro to counter a springboard with a superkick, and Mysterio's right leg gets tangled in the ropes and becomes the centre of MNM's focus. From here the selling of Mysterio is as beautiful as MNM's dissection of the leg. Things like Mysterio collapsing on an irish whip attempt and Nitro drawing the referee into trying to control Batista allowing them to hit an illegal double team move are just brilliant little touches that you'll often find in a STF match. MNM work the leg like kings and everything moves along smoothly and the crowd slowly becomes more unglued with each tease of a hot tag. Whole sequence where Rey rolls away like a fly to evade MNM's trap, only to be caught mid dive and inches away from the hot tag only to hit a desparation DDT counter and eventually make the tag was the spot of the match.

Hot tag has the crowd molten and Batista does his job well in clearing house and making MNM lambs to the slaughter. Melina really sells the fear that Batista will evaporate their strategy in the blink of an eye and they even manage to work the referee injury spot really well. Mysterio before this hits a lunatic hurricanrana to Nitro off the apron to the floor which really felt like everything he had left in the match. Mark Henry interference is perfectly timed and we get a great screjob finish with MNM stealing the belts with Batista motionless from Henry's assault. Great pacing, great offence from MNM, wonderful FIP spell from Mysterio and a great build to the hot tag to Batista. Awesome match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dude, that Hardy vs Henry match is one of my favorites. I remember being burned up that Tuesday when I was like "that could have happened on PPV. Those numpties." Ironically, it's the PPV shenanigans which fed the story for the match come ECW. Dammit to hell I love it. I love Matt Hardy & I love Mark Henry. Knew I wasn't crazy for liking Henry till he blew up in 2011.

Only saw Finlay vs Mysterio once. When it aired. I marked for it then. 100% (not 110% b/c that's stupid) certain I'll dig it again. Mysterio's consistency against dregs is brilliant. When his opponent is Finlay. Ha. Forgettaboutit. Of course I'll like it. Been hardly any Finlay matches I've disliked in WWE.

Mysterio vs JBL is good. I've never loved it like some. I can see why it can recieve love though. JBL was a grade A asshole. Dare eclipsing his work vs Eddie in 2004. Mysterio is the king babyface. It came together naturally. Can't put my finger on why, but it never was like "omg I love this match." It's strictly like only. I'm appreciative of the talent & work put forth, so that averages out all the same. Mysterio's underdog role at the time was so fitting. I don't care what anyone says. It was.

MNM! Fudge, those cats were on point in their tag team work. Brilliant more often than not. Coupled when their opponents were highly capable in Mysterio & a man who had a perpinsity to pull out really good performances when he wanted to in Batista. Oh yes. Always a great way to kill some time. Tag team wrestling is bliss. Singles is all good. Great, even. (of course) Yet with tags there is more psychological tactics implemented. That's why I dig it more. All of these new wrinkles mixed in when it goes from two workers in a match - to four or more. Addition of tandem work, comebacks, transitions, & all the like; it's like the match's quality has been doubled when you go into gross detail of it. I miss Morrison(Nitro) & Matthews working in WWE. Not to mention I miss brand splits on account of that format giving life to tag team matches when you think about it. You've inspired me to want to fish out nothing but tag team matches right now. Like really. I'm jazzed up from all of this. May even make a thread in the classic wrestling section about it. idk. Don't hold me to that. I can get distracted easily sometimes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Btw, which one do you think it's PPV of the year so far?
> 
> To me, I think I might go with EC. Only know that RR is NOT EVEN CLOSE.


Elimination Chamber by far for me. LOVED the Chamber match & The Shield tag, enjoyed Show/Del Rio & Cesaro/Miz, & thought Punk/Rock was good enough and carried by Punk at least. Mania was a 2 match show for me.



Nostalgia said:


> Speaking of Mania, even though overall I was underwhelmed with the show, one of the things I really liked that doesn't get talked about much is CM Punk's special entrance:


Yeah, I noted on this on my initial review. Living Colour really put some effort in the performance and it was awesome, unlike almost all other live performances we see in wrestling. Also loved Punk's energy and how he screamed and threw his arms up when Taker's music hit.



That's irrelevant said:


> Just gave this match another watch. It still holds up. Awesome match. I love the finish to the match so much. Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas' consistency that year is amazing. :mark:
> 
> Speaking of pimping out gems, I recommend giving Raven vs Rhyno at Backlash 2001 a watch. Seriously.


Oh you must be the guy that actually watched when I first started pimping it. Good man. (Y)



ATF said:


> Yeah, that SD match was awesome, but imo Vengeance was better.


I think I slightly have the SD match over Vengeance. Both are awesome and **** respectively for me but the structure of the FIP segment and finishing stretch in the SD match was just off the charts.



WOOLCOCK said:


> *MNM vs Rey Mysterio & Batista, (Smackdown 12/30/05)*


Oooooo, I love their 12/16 match where Batista & Rey won the titles so I may have to track this one down and watch. Which one would you say is better?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know what MNM match is radical? vs Hardys from Royal Rumble '07.

Probably known around these parts. I simply had to plug it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wish I still had that show. When I was younger I would sell or trade in DVDs like fucking crazy. Wish I had so many of them back now. Royal Rumble '05 & '07, No Way Out '06, Unforgiven '04, Summerslam '01, bunch of old oop ROH shows, etc etc.

But yes, great tag match.  Love that rumble too, or the last few minutes at least.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Rey Mysterio and Billy Kidman vs The World's Greatest tag team- Vengeance 2003​*
This match is for the WWE tag team titles. The match kicks off and it's Rey Mysterio and Shelton Benjamin to start the match. Rey Mysterio gets in control for a bit and then makes the tag to Billy Kidman. Kidman and Mysterio does a tag team move on Benjamin with Kidman going for a cover but Benjamin kicks out at 2. Kidman is in control for a bit with some quick moves to take Shelton Benjamin down but Benjamin turns the match around by kneeing Kidman in the stomach and throwing his head back on the canvas. Shelton Benjamin makes the tag to Charlie Haas who goes for a roll-up pin on Kidman but Kidman kicks out at 1. Charlie Haas grabs Kidman in a headlock but Kidman fights back, hitting Haas with some quick moves. Kidman goes for a pin but Haas kicks out at 1. Charlie Haas takes Kidman down, choking him onto the ropes and ramming Kidman's face with his forearm. While the referee pulls Haas off, Charlie Haas tries to jump onto Kidman neck but misses, leaving Kidman in control now. Kidman tags Rey Mysterio in who gives Haas a high-flying legdrop with Haas sitting on the second top rope. Cool spot. Mysterio goes for a cover but Haas kicks out at 2 with Benjamin breaking up the cover. 

Mysterio tries to give Haas a for a bulldog but Haas reverses it into a full nelson atomic drop. I'm digging this so far. Haas goes for a pin but Mysterio kicks out at 2. Haas is still in control of Mysterio at this point of the match. Haas goes for another cover on Rey but he kicks out at 2. Haas tags Benjamin in who kicks Mysterio's left knee. Benjamin Irish whips Mysterio to the ropes and throwing Rey Mysterio mid-air and onto the canvas. Benjamin puts Mysterio in a submission hold but Mysterio fights out of it. Mysterio fights back at Benjamin and takes him down with a kick to the face. Both Mysterio and Benjamin crawl to their respective corners for a tag and in goes Kidman and Haas for a hot tag! Kidman hammers away on Charlie Haas and also hammers away on Shelton Benjamin, giving him a dropkick. Kidman is in control here, going for a cover on Haas but kicks out at 2. Kidman tries to go for a quick move on Haas but both Haas and Benjamin attack on Kidman behind the ref's back. Kidman and Rey Mysterio both fight back on Haas and Benjamin. As Haas gets position onto the ropes, Rey has the 619 in mind but gets pulled from out of the ring by Shelton Benjamin. Both Rey and Kidman give Benjamin and Haas a high flying move from outside of the ring. Nice! Rey Mysterio throws Charlie Haas back inside the ring and Kidman goes for a cover. Haas kicks out at 2.

Billy Kidman Irish whips Charlie Haas to the ropes. Kidman runs towards Haas for a clothesline but gets thrown out on the apron by Haas. Shelton Benjamin, from behind the referee's back, hits Kidman's arm onto the steel ring posts which leaves him falling outside of the ring. Haas goes outside of the ring and throws Kidman back inside the ring. Haas pins Kidman but Kidman kicks out at 1. Charlie Haas goes to tag in Shelton Benjamin. Benjamin picks Kidman up and body-drops him onto Haas' right knee. Benjamin covers Kidman but Rey Mysterio breaks up the pin. Benjamin puts Billy Kidman in a submission move. Kidman lands on Benjamin for a pin but Benjamin kicks out. Billy Kidman tries to tag Mysterio but Benjamin prevents him, grabbing his leg, and tagging in Charlie Haas who stomps on Kidman's back. Charlie Haas works on Kidman's back for a bit. Kidman however, fights Haas off to get the upperhand of the match. Kidman ends up knocking Charlie Haas out of the ring. Billy Kidman crawls to Rey Mysterio for a tag but the referee didn't see the tag which means Kidman is still the legal man. Haas and Benjamin beat down Kidman while the referee's back is turned. Haas goes for a pin count but it's a kick out at 2 by Kidman. Haas tags in Shelton Benjamin. Benjamin gives Kidman a powerbomb followed with a kick to the abdomen. Benjamin goes for a cover and Kidman kicks out. Benjamin who shows frustration tries to go for another powerbomb but Billy Kidman counters it. Kidman tags in Mysterio who goes for a springboard high-flying maneuver on Benjamin and knocks Haas down off the ring apron. Rey then takes Benjamin down with an enziguri. Charlie Haas tries to run after Mysterio but ends up getting tripped outside of the ring by Mysterio. Mysterio goes for a pin but Benjamin kicks out. Mysterio hits a DDT on Benjamin and covers him yet again. Benjamin kicks out to keep the match going. Benjamin tags in Charlie Haas who gets inside the ring and gives Mysterio a bodydrop. Haas runs to the ropes but gets kneed in the back and a shoulder thrust from Kidman. Mysterio kicks Haas in the back to set up for the 619. Mysterio is successfully able to hit the 619. As Rey is pinning him, Benjamin kicks Rey in the face while the referee has his attention towards Kidman. Shelton Benjamin runs toward Billy Kidman and clotheslines him from outside the ring. Haas pins Rey who is down and out but it isn't enough to score the win. Haas and Mysterio go back and forth for a bit with both trying to score the win on each other. Both Kidman and Benjamin get inside the ring. Kidman lifts Haas onto the turnbuckle following up with Rey Mysterio giving Haas a Super Hurricanrana. Mysterio pins Haas but that doesn't put him out. Haas and Mysterio go back and forth with one another once more but the match ends with a springboard Doomsday Device and TWGT picking up the win. 

GREAT tag match. Another one of Mysterio & Kidman/Haas & Benjamin's fantastic encounters. The back and forth between both teams are great and the crowd was pretty hot for this match which is always a great thing. The finish to the match was great with it leaving me wanting more. Great stuff. Rating: ★★★3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Wish I still had that show. When I was younger I would sell or trade in DVDs like fucking crazy. Wish I had so many of them back now. Royal Rumble '05 & '07, No Way Out '06, Unforgiven '04, Summerslam '01, bunch of old oop ROH shows, etc etc.
> 
> But yes, great tag match.  Love that rumble too, or the last few minutes at least.


How could you have traded all those shows?! Well, Unforgiven '04 makes sense outside of the opener. And I'm not exactly crazy about NWO '06 pardon the last two matches, but still. Go buy Rumble '05 & '07 ASAP. :hayley1


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*@WOOLCOCK*, I wrote a bit about that Hardy/Henry match not too long ago. Pretty much had the same thoughts as you. Matt was one of the best workers in the company during his run as Smackdown's mid-card workhorse and on ECW, and I don't think enough people recognize how good a seller Mark Henry is. Really good match. Finlay/Mysterio I don't remember but I'm a big fan of JBL/Mysterio, especially JBL's performance. MNM v Batista/Rey is also (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You were one I remembered who was a big supporter of JBL/Mysterio from Judgment Day. Like stated: I like it, but I've always found myself preferring their match from No Mercy '05 ever so slightly over it.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/nash GFBE ***1/4 - hbk got the most out of the big stiff, I agree with flair nash had zero in the ring


A lot of people call this like ****1/2. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks it's very forgettable.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Heard Kofi and Cesaro had a 'great' match on Main Event. I find it hard to believe seeing as Kofi is in it but Cesaro is one of the few guys on the roster who could make me enjoy a Kingston match so I'll check it out. Anybody in here seen it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Why does The Undertaker agree to wrestle people like Luther Reigns.

WHY.

Definitely one of the absolute shittiest Undertaker matches I have ever seen, Reigns was incompetent out there with his inability to cooperate with even the simplest of tasks such as taking snake eyes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWF European Championship - Matt Hardy(c) vs Albert ~ RAW June 2001​*
Paul Heyman does adds to start. Yes, my Yeah1993 style review are always going to be chalk full of stupid random lines. I just like to call it. Albert comes out and is JAKKED. Lilian sounds like an idiot and stumbles over saying Albert. K. Highlights of the Albert vs Kane program. omgomgomgomg. That's legit one of my favorite things about 2001. Albert is working like a junkie who wants his crack fix. He's going so fast. Wants that european championship. Albert to be the champion of Europe. All that hair. It's a natural fit. Albert goes to military press Hardy - which he did to Kane on Smackdown - yet, Matt counters it. Albert can slam Kane, but not the much smaller Hardy. LOGICAL. You know, 2001 is cool beans and all the good stuff, but this match is being done in that fashion of "every TV match is going to be 100% offense oriented and it can't make much room for the matches being special. Albert gets DQ'ed by holding onto a choke too long. Bleh. This should have been better. POST MATCH SHENANIGANS. X-FACTOR IN TO MAKE THE SAVE ON ALBERT. X-PAC IS WEARING OVERALLS. JEAN OVERALLS LIKE A FARMER. X-Factor clean house. Well that post match was about 10x more entertaining than the match. What a time this was for the WWF.

*X-Factor (X-Pac, Albert, & Justin Credible) vs KANE & The Hardy Boys ~ Smackdown June 2001​*
KANE. Kane vs Albert series. Hell yes. This follow the Albert vs Hardy match from RAW I just talked about. X-Factor was fun. Maybe I just like stables. Or having a midcard with life again. If there is anything I miss from this era - it's a roster that is used well. KANE AND ALBERT STAREDOWN. LET THEM SMASH EACH OTHER PLEASE. They go to the apron. Ah nuts. Hardys are rolling...waiting for Albert to get in. Still waiting. ALBERT tagged in. He tries to gorilla press Matt Hardy again. No go.* WHYYYYYYYY?* He kills Matt with a beast like flying shoulder tackle. Apparently his offense is channeling Jim Hellwig at this time. He tags out. Ah nuts. Well, it's fast & fun and all that jazz, but certainly not the best environment for Albert only. Albert tosses Jeff off the ropes - KANE is in. YES. Here we go, fans going ape. KANE IS SMASHING ALBERT. POWERSLAM. Albert gains the advantage & sucks the life from the fans. I love that. So much. Didn't last long as Kane would soon own Albert & X-Pac and then it's over. Well, those interactions were brief but god damn they ruled. I'm so watching their matches next.

*WWF Intercontinental Championship - Kane(c) vs Albert ~ Smackdown 2001 June​*
It's a head on collision from jump street, folks! 20 seconds in and I love this more than Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels Iron Man. CLUBBERIN. This was chalk full of many fun moments: Albert gives Kane the sickest hot shot ever seen. ALBERT GORILLA PRESSES KANE. BUTTERFLY SUPLEX. RUNNING POWERSLAM.DDT COUNTER MID-AIR CHOKESLAM. KANE DROPKICKS ALBERT OUT OF THE BALDO BOMB. My finger hit caps lock and I couldn't help myself. Albert looks sooooooooo great in this. Without a doubt a performance that made you think he was going to go places. Not just in 2001. In his entire WWF/WWE career. Holy crap this was brilliant. I dare anyone to find a better 6 minute match that year. I don't think it can be done. I prefer it over a number of PPV matches too. Beast vs Beast done in a thought out rapid rate. WWE should capatalize on that more. To an extent they have/did with Sheamus vs a few guys.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> How could you have traded all those shows?! Well, Unforgiven '04 makes sense outside of the opener. And I'm not exactly crazy about NWO '06 pardon the last two matches, but still. Go buy Rumble '05 & '07 ASAP. :hayley1


I was young... and dumb. 

JEAN OVERALLS LIKE A FARMER! hahaha

I love how no one does any star ratings while doing the youtube project.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Reviewing matches YEAH1993 style is the funnest.

You just turn on a random match and type random nonsensical thoughts while the match is going on. Takes less effort than a full scale review, is funner to write, & is actually more productive as a whole.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The fashion choice by Waltman that night left a lot to be desired. Wondered if he just got back from a costume party.

Snowflakes are irrelevant when it comes to me putting over or expressing disappointment with these matches. I don't really bust em out too much as it is unless someone asks or I do a review.

EDIT ~ It's facetious, but in a credible manner. Bless Yeah1993 for inspiring us to take things less serious when putting something over.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I completely stole the Cal Scale from Cal and now I'm doing YEAH1993's schtick on a nightly basis.

Call it an homage .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I watched Undertaker vs. Tajiri for the Hardcore Title from Smackdown sometime in '01 the other night and it was AWESOME. Basically an extended squash but Tajiri spits the green mist in Taker's eyes when he goes for the Last Ride and wrestles half the match looking like the Incredible Hulk. I was too tired to Yeah1993 review it, but it's fun as shit. Plus Torrie Wilson titties at ringside. Aka the best titties.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I completely stole the Cal Scale from Cal and now I'm doing YEAH1993's schtick on a nightly basis.
> 
> Call it an homage .


Inspiration comes from many different outlets.

Except Cal should never inspire anyone. He's Cal. 8*D



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I watched Undertaker vs. Tajiri for the Hardcore Title from Smackdown sometime in '01 the other night and it was AWESOME. Basically an extended squash but Tajiri spits the green mist in Taker's eyes when he goes for the Last Ride and wrestles half the match looking like the Incredible Hulk. I was too tired to Yeah1993 review it, but it's fun as shit. Plus Torrie Wilson titties at ringside. *Aka the best titties*.


omg :mark:

Nah @ the bold. They're fake. Maria wins by default. Or Brie Bella.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Was never into Torrie that much believe it or not.

I was fucking OBSESSED with Mickie James back in 2006-2007, thought she was the hottest thing on planet earth with THAT ASS. Went to a live event once and she was the person I wanted to see live more than anybody else.

I was young and obsessed. The fuck Evan, the fuck.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Someone in the Smackdown thread said Miz was having his best match at WM 27 before Rock came in. Thought I'd actually give it a chance and rewatch it for the first time since it happened in 2011. 

I already hate myself. Even the entrances were stupid. From Miz's stupid AWESOME sign to the gospel choir singing for Cena. The beginning was weird with DMX saying a prayer, which I didn't bother sitting through as I went and grabbed a drink. LOL at the champ coming out first, and Riley still carrying the Haliburton. 

The only thing that saved this match was JR at the commentary desk, and even he barely sounded interested. God, this was so bad. Crowd didn't give a shit about what was going in the ring. Nothing noteworthy happened during this match. Cena and Miz knocked around a bit, both guys hit their finishers (Cena actually hit two AAs). Miz knocking his head on the concrete is still nasty to watch. *3/4 for this. Unfortunate that neither competitors in the final match actually closed the show. I actually feel bad for Miz, who I think had a concussion after that hard landing then did a pretty good job of selling for the Rock. 

Think I'll watch Taker/Trips from the same show to get the taste out of my mouth.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Miz's entrance at WrestleMania was awesome. Pun not even intended. That was the only good thing to take away from it. His video was great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CENA IS BLAKE GRIFFIN.

As great as Miz's entrance was, Cena's was atrocious.

PS: Fuck Rock.

I know he's inevitably coming back to give BROCK his worst match ever and to bog down another Wrestlemania quality wise, so I might as well just say FUCK YOU right now .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I love Torrie's titties... In fact Torrie has to be one of, if not my favorite diva of all time. ALWAYS looked good. 

Brie Bella!? Gtfo. There's no titties there. haha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bella has something. A pretty face. Unlike Torrie.

Burn. :ron1


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can never enjoy Sable, feels like if I every jacked it to her then BROCK would burst in through my room door and lock me in the kimura, breaking both of my arms in the process.

I know I have a set of steel steps lying around here SOMEWHERE though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:ban

Nah really though, I love me some Torrie. I'm not gonna argue the Bellas aren't gorgeous, but Nikki's titjob looks terrible.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I pretty much think every diva on the current WWE roster is hot as fuck at the moment.

Besides Tamina Snuka, she has as much looks as her father does wrestling ability.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

DAT BELLA ASS SHAKE

And Sable is GOAT for looks and sex appeal. Shit, when she returned in 2003, she was even better looking. That affair thing with Vince was just weird.

Honorable mention of course to Sunny, Trish, Torrie, Layla, and Stacy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

love me some torrie, although layla was and will always be the only diva I ever care about


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Torrie's body was ridiculous. That Halloween thing she did with Dawn Marie is the GOAT segment. Trish in 2000-01 was delicious too. Bellas don't do much for me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is there a specific reason why Rick Rude had some disappointing encounters with good opponents during the early/mid-90s in WCW? I keep looking for any non-Steamboat gems of his, but all I find are terrible matches between him and the likes of Sting, Chono, Flair, Rhodes, Hawk, and Windham. Somebody please guide me to the light with regards to Rick Rude before I put him in the "Jimmy Snuka" pile!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, just erased the taste of Miz/Cena with GAME/Taker. As JR said, "We have seen two men go through an excursion to hell." Such amazing storytelling, and they did it again a year later. ****1/4. Now going to Punk/Orton from the same show. Think I remember this being the second best match on the card.

Oh, and Game/Taker has the two best entrances of all time. Trips with For Whom the Bell Tolls, and Taker with Ain't No Grave. BUT FUCK JUSTIN ROBERTS FOR TALKING OVER JOHNNY CASH. Should have just done the intros once both guys got in the ring.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I need to re-watch GAME/Taker 27 and 28 at some point. Fuck the haters.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I thought Miz performed alright at Mania 27. You knew that he wasn't ready for such a huge match, but I don't remember him messing anything up.

Cena, on the other hand, completely sandbagged the match. I don't know if he was pissed about the outcome or what, but he no sold all offense and seemed least interested in the match, just going through the motions until he nearly killed Miz with that clothesline.

Worst main event performance of the guy's career.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WM27 is where to go, The storytelling isn't overexaggerated or overused like WM28.

WM27 (*****)
WM28 (****)

That's right.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

You're certainly right about Cena being bad in that match. I'll admit freely the amount of dislike I have for Miz, but he kept his wits about him after banging his head on the dang concrete. Unfortunately, Miz isn't a guy that can carry someone else to a great, even good match. 

Punk/Orton at WM 27 is still really good. ***3/4. Punk should have won one of these matches, but at least Orton won each match with a super RKO, and nothing straight up. Punk's work on Orton's leg was masterfully done, and it looked like with he had Orton in the Figure Four around the ring post, that Orton was biting the post. 

Hmm, Orton/Cena from NWO 2008 up next for me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I never even bothered to watch Cena/Miz. That speaks volumes.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm glad I've entered this thread at the right time, not missing the Torrie Wilson discussion :mangane


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)




----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

If anyone ever needs JERK material, just check out any of Torrie's Wrestlemania matches. 

MRS. WRESTLEMANIA


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Patrick Bateman said:


>


****3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it just me or Matt used to be WWWWAAAAAYYY better than Jeff? Checked out some of his matches (vs Finlay, vs Henry, vs Bourne, vs Helms) and he used to quite tear the house down.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I always thought Matt was a better worker than Jeff.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Matt was the better worker and a great fip, but there's nothing wrong with watching a guy almost kill himself diving (and sometimes slipping off) the top rope.


Edit: Torrie's nice, but Molly Holly and Victoria all the way.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Matt Hardy is an OK worker in the sense that he had good matches on a more consistent basis than his brother, but Jeff has definitely had more memorable/GREAT matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jeff had more opportunities to have memorable matches than Matt did and even so Matt/Edge steel cage is better than every singles match in Jeff's career.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I disagree. I think Punk/Jeff TLC + Cage and Jeff/HHH No Mercy are both better than Edge/Matt Cage. Though Edge/Matt is a great match in it's own right.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Fandango said:


> I disagree. I think Punk/Jeff TLC + Cage and Jeff/HHH No Mercy are both better than Edge/Matt Cage. Though Edge/Matt is a great match in it's own right.


Won't argue with you on that, I prefer Matt/Edge but those are excellent matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Is there a specific reason why Rick Rude had some disappointing encounters with good opponents during the early/mid-90s in WCW? I keep looking for any non-Steamboat gems of his, but all I find are terrible matches between him and the likes of Sting, Chono, Flair, Rhodes, Hawk, and Windham. Somebody please guide me to the light with regards to Rick Rude before I put him in the "Jimmy Snuka" pile!


I know a few matches vs Sting fell flat, but he's got plenty worth seeing. Don't skimp on his Japan work either. The man is NOT Jimmy Snuka. Rude was a hell of a talent.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> *WWF Intercontinental Championship - Kane(c) vs Albert ~ Smackdown 2001 June​*
> It's a head on collision from jump street, folks! 20 seconds in and I love this more than Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels Iron Man. CLUBBERIN. This was chalk full of many fun moments: Albert gives Kane the sickest hot shot ever seen. ALBERT GORILLA PRESSES KANE. BUTTERFLY SUPLEX. RUNNING POWERSLAM.DDT COUNTER MID-AIR CHOKESLAM. KANE DROPKICKS ALBERT OUT OF THE BALDO BOMB. My finger hit caps lock and I couldn't help myself. Albert looks sooooooooo great in this. Without a doubt a performance that made you think he was going to go places. Not just in 2001. In his entire WWF/WWE career. Holy crap this was brilliant. I dare anyone to find a better 6 minute match that year. I don't think it can be done. I prefer it over a number of PPV matches too. Beast vs Beast done in a thought out rapid rate. WWE should capatalize on that more. To an extent they have/did with Sheamus vs a few guys.


Love that match too, they had two great little matches on SD in quick succession - 6/14/01 and 6/28/01(Features the Kane huricanrana)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

"THE END OF THE WORLD, AS YOU KNOW IT HAS ARRIVED. THE END OF THIEVERY, THE END OF PLAGIARISM AND THEN THERE'S C.M PUNK"


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oooooo, I love their 12/16 match where Batista & Rey won the titles so I may have to track this one down and watch. Which one would you say is better?


(12/30/85): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2suD6k4NXQ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYd2b4V_GBM

Don't remember much of the 12/16/05 match mate, but found a link so I'll give it a watch later and see which one I prefer.



Saint Dick said:


> *@WOOLCOCK*, I wrote a bit about that Hardy/Henry match not too long ago. Pretty much had the same thoughts as you. Matt was one of the best workers in the company during his run as Smackdown's mid-card workhorse and on ECW, and I don't think enough people recognize how good a seller Mark Henry is. Really good match. Finlay/Mysterio I don't remember but I'm a big fan of JBL/Mysterio, especially JBL's performance. MNM v Batista/Rey is also (Y)


Agreed. His selling was really great in that match and even when on offence you could still see him moving gingerly on the leg to give off the impression it was still hampering him, albeit not as constricting since Matt wasn't able to fully maximise the damage. Henry's selling of the ankle vs Bryan in the Steel Cage on Smackdown should quash any doubters of his ability to sell. He outworked Danielson that night which is a mighty feat given Danielson put in one of if not his best WWE performance that night. Just the way Henry would sell the ankle enough to give you the impression Bryan could win without compromising the David vs Goliath story was astounding. Big fan of their callback spot to their first match where Henry powered out of the Lebell Lock with Bryan this time switching into an ankle lock as Henry lifts him off the ground.

Finlay/Mysterio was what you'd expect from both. Creative and violent offence from Finlay in control and Mysterio bumping and building to his big spots well. Mentioned it in the write up but I loved Rey hitting his moves with relative ease but never being able to string a combo together and having him work a much slower comeback. Nice way to change up his comeback whilst still not neglecting the workover.

JBL isn't great in a technical sense, but people seriously need to appreciate there are various ways to be good in the ring and as a heel worker JBL certainly brought a lot to a match. He was a vile prick throughout. Check out his match vs Regal from Smackdown in the UK from 4/28/06, talked about this a month or so ago but was a big fan of it: http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/JBL+vs+William+Regal/1#video=x3oetb



ATF said:


> Is it just me or Matt used to be WWWWAAAAAYYY better than Jeff? Checked out some of his matches (vs Finlay, vs Henry, vs Bourne, vs Helms) and he used to quite tear the house down.





Saint Dick said:


> I always thought Matt was a better worker than Jeff.


^ yup.

Matt has always been better in the ring than Jeff imo and by a considerable margin to. Jeff always had the charisma and natural connection to an audience that someone like Steamboat or Morton possessed, but Matt was far better at actually working and selling in a way that resembled Steamboat/Morton if that makes sense. I've never really been a big fan of Jeff in singles matches as despite bumping in crazy fashion I've always hated his offence and always found it to hinder his comeback. Matt just does everything Jeff does in a much better way & if he possessed the same charisma and natural connection Jeff had, then Matt would have been a bigger star than he turned out.

As for best matches vs best matches: Jeff for me doesn't have a match better than Hardy/Edge Unforgiven '05 or Hardy/Finlay 6/22/07. I'm a big fan of the Punk Loser Leaves Town Cage match from Smackdown & Hardy/HHH No Mercy has always remained a personal surprise given how little I care for Hardy and how I generally find HHH pretty shitty as a babyface, but I still don't think either match is as good as Matt's best. Then when you examine Matt/Edge Summerslam '05, Matt/Rey San Diego Smackdown '03, Matt/Henry '08 and other matches in Matt's brilliant '06-08 run then I really don't think its close between them.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

World Wrestling Federation Championship
*Bret Hat © Vs Bob Backlund (WWF 30/07/1994)*
★★★ 1/4 || LINK
_In a match that should have been a showcase of one of the better wrestlers from the old-school against one of the better wrestlers from the 90s, this turned out to be a one-sided, half-ditched attempt at glory. I'm honestly sure the same result could have been formed if Bret was replaced by just about anyone else in WWF's 1994 roster.

Backlund played a great role in his desperation, shifting his target away from the technical clinic I thought would become of this match (and as was hinted in its opening few minutes) rather to that of getting the pin at almost any opportunity, no matter the thoroughness of reason behind it. His grunts, over-exaggerated bodily expressions and selling played a great contrasting role to the newer style, with Backlund's exhaustion portrayal offering a refreshing change from the stock-standard manner in which it's covered today. As for Hart, his application may be a solid feature (his nickname is "the excellence of execution", after all) but his approach and delivery of his part within the match left a lot to be desired.

Disappointing comparatively to what I expected from this, but it remains a worthy watch purely because of it being Backlund's last shot at the big time. His breakdown, post-match, is also something worth cherishing. A hall of famer well-deserved of the recognition he was given this year._



AWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Nick Bockwinkel © Vs Wahoo McDaniel (AWA 28/08/1983)*
★★★★ 1/4 || LINK
_The exaggeration I noted in the Backlund match continues here and this time, I think, it was done so much better.

What an absolutely violent brawl that takes Bockwinkel out of his "comfort zone" and into the world of Wahoo McDaniel. This match had no high-spots, chain wrestling nor your typical "wrestling" for that matter, either, and that gave the match a high-calibre feeling of legitimacy within its aggression. For what it's worth, I felt Heenan's interferences and reactions added adequately to the match's quality and Bockwinkel's character narrative without detracting from the overarching feel. There may not have been any commentary to deliver the match's story to the viewer, but when a match can incite an entire crowd into anger (pelting the ring and Bockwinkel with their cups and litter; even having a fan attempt to jump the barricade to attack the champ over his chickenshit tactics in beating the babyface) the inmatch story is great enough to captivate just about anyone.

I haven't seen many AWA matches but this was an absolutely phenomenal example as to why I need to dive deeper into their wealth of great matches._



*Daniel Bryan Vs William Regal (WWE 11/10/2011)*
FUN~!/5 (★★★ 3/4+) || LINK
_A great performance from both men in front of a co-operative, fun-loving Manchester crowd. The pair had a good few match-ups running through the tail-end of 2010 and sporadically through 2011 (both Raw and this match being notably televised) yet they occurred on international tours and at house shows allowing for very little of the material to pop up. When it did, however, they all clocked in at around the 10 minute mark. It's because of that that, perhaps, my greatest wish in WWE today would be for both men to lace up their boots one more time and just be allowed to wrestle freely for as long as they wish. For as great a pairing was between Regal/Ambrose and Regal/Ohno, the dynamic of the master/student between Regal/Daniel cannot be surpassed, imo.

All that said, though, this match was most definitely a highlight within Supertars 2011 run (a time when the show was known for putting on great wrestling). It does start off a little displeasing, but the basis of its build had to be layed and it did fine as such. Fast forward to the final few minutes and that displeasure is purely in the fact you know the ending is coming. As Striker alluded to towards the beginning, Daniel Bryan was taught by William Regal on everything he knew, but experience always outpays education.

Now, excuse me, I have logs to chop and my own orange juice to squeeze._​


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im in the process of getting 1991-1993 wcw ppv's. will watch them asap.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Love that match too, they had two great little matches on SD in quick succession - 6/14/01 and 6/28/01(Features the Kane huricanrana)


Hope it's on Dailymotion. No DQ match isn't on youtube; which is bollocks.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Any Albert/Giant Bernard fans owe it to themselves to watch his match vs Nagata in New Japan from 4/30/06. Wrote about it elsewhere but its likely Bernard's finest performance in a singles match imo:



> Everyone's talked about this already, so aye this ruled hard. Really simple structure based around Bernard's power being too much for Nagata, who gradually has to resort to a mixture of his striking and submission game, as well as some veteran instincts to draw Bernard into strike battles rather than the power game. Submission spot came off really well after Bernard's prolonged dominance and him already cutting off a Nagata comeback, and Bernard's selling of the arm afterwards cannot be praised enough. The way he incorporated it into the powerbomb attempts was marvellous and really added drama to when he finally hit it, and with the arm being weakened and him not even getting all of the move it made the Nagata kickout seem organic and not a kickout for the sake of a kickout. Fact Nagata was still basically out of it and at Bernard's mercy also protected the move as a certifiable difference maker, even if it wasn't good enough to get the win on this night. LOVED the shining wizard spot and Bernard finally going down on the 3rd attempt, little touches like that always add some intrigue to what otherwise would be an inospicious sequence and never fail to crack a smile on my face. Match really felt like something Punk watched prior to the 04/02 Henry Raw match this year, and that would definitely make my ballot in a 10-19 poll so this definitely will.



Great write ups Rah. I'm not really a massive Bret fan in all honesty. His highs and best matches certainly hold up, but tbh I'm at a point where his dry style doesn't truly interest me. He hits everything with precision, brings a focused structure and approach to his matches where things make sense and I can't complain about what I'm seeing..but it just doesn't grab me or consistently hold my attention. Andy made a great point when arguing he found Arn better in the ring than Bret and talked about how both would work an armbar. With Bret you're getting a great looking armbar and no doubt it would likely have a reason for being applied. But its just an armbar. Someone like Arn would grin and smirk whilst in control, he'd slap and taunt his opponent, he'd taunt the crowd and he might even bend the fingers of his opponent just to add insult to injury. The point is that someone like Arn will work to make even the most mundane and basic spot work whether he's working his character in the hold, bumping comically early into the match and in the finishing stretch or just ensuring the viewer has something to take out of the hold. With Bret, you can't complain or argue against the reasoning for the hold...but its just a nicely applied hold with little else going for it and for me little touches like that from Arn are what separates him from people like Bret imo.

Heard a lot about that Wahoo/Bockwinkel set from people watching the AWA set and having now purchased it I'm psyched to getting around to watching it (Y).

If you dug that Regal match I'd wholly recommend Regal/Bourne from a European House Show from '11. Great match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh4DAhRtnTY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Certain I've seen the Bernard/Nagata match. I'll watch it again b/c of the plug.

Your opinion on Bret is now how I've grown to feel about some of his work, SI. Especially when it comes to the match vs Benoit in '99. Moves executed well and all that jazz. Simply no life to the match. It's just a collection of soulless moves strung together. I used to be engrossed by it. Now I have a hard time finishing it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Tbf, I'm not at all a fan of Hart and the opening line was more a placer of the match's significance than my own personal feelings. I'll have a look back for Andy's comment, but I cannot see anything but agreement with it so far.

As for the Regal/Bourne match, I've got it added to the playlist. I'm just going through some Johnny Saint WoS greatness, atm. :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

fwiw I think Andy's comment was said elsewhere but it might have been mentioned here. 

Agred with you & Cody though. I watched the 1-2-3 Kid/Hart title match on Raw a week or so ago and I enjoyed it, but I just couldn't help but think throughout that Flair, Funk, Arn, Lawler, Murdoch or someone else who's a richly expressive performer would have made for a far more engrossing opponent for Waltman. That's harsh on Hart to a degree since they're largely heel workers and he was babyface in that match, but its more directed at him working a largely simple, solid and logical match but just not having much in between for the work to string together in a way that keeps me invested. I'm just at the point where I prefer more expressive and interesting performers in matches to me and if I'm to make do with someone more grounded then again someone like Finlay feels infinitely better than Hart at working a more focused and structural match as a face/heel and keeping me invested.

Good stuff Cody vis a vis Nagata/Bernard. Its a great match and currently still on my top 100 ballot (Y).

As for Saint, eh I do like a lot of his work but I'm not going to lie the likes of Steve Grey, Jon Cortez, Keith Haward, Jim Breaks & Alan Sarjeant have impressed me more than him so far. I do love Saint/Grey though from 1/28/80 but a lot of that is founded in how they work it as a hierarchy match with Grey overwhelmed and constantly fighting to escape Saint's trickery. I've made a WOS thread in the Classic section Rah if you ever want some recommendations, hasn't been updated for a bit but I'll be working my way back into it shortly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kid vs Bret holds up for me in the enjoyment ranks. That's one of the Bret matches I'll always seem to dig. Babyface vs Babyface at the time was a bit of a challenge there. I thought it made the most of it with Kid's underdog nature and Bret's veteran mentality. Certainly better than other Hart matches out there. Even while vs a heel. Bret is an interesting one. He can have the performance vs Smith at SummerSlam '92 and save a match. Then he can have some performances where it's like "eh" overall. Not so much on an inconsistent level as much as a bit of 'I can't put my finger on it "pseudo-emotional" worker' level. Yes, I did just phrase it like that. It might not make any sense, but I at least know what I'm trying to say.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

fwiw I did dig Bret/1-2-3 Kid a fair amount. Bret controlled and grounded Waltman in an assured manner and Waltman's comebacks and brief counters were all well timed and put him over as an ever present threat who could trouble Hart. It was more a point to acknowledge how even when he works well in a match, something about Hart's dry and basic style can have me contemplating how others would perform in that same environment. Again though, that is unfair on him since the people I mentioned were predominantly heel workers even if most if not all were great face workers at one time or another.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hear ya. The natural progression of any scenario wouldn't you say? For our preferences at least. The expressive workers to take the place of the dryer ones will no doubt up the interest & quality of the match exponentially.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm always half and half with Bret. I love a bunch of his top tier matches to this day, but at the same time I'd have a hard time nowadays really calling him great. I enjoy for the most part his more "real" style (real as in his stuff usually looks really good and not sloppy and obviously "fake"), but at the same time, thanks to people like Andy, I am left wanting more... such as him pulling at his opponents fingers while in an arm lock to save it being just some guy sat in a hold etc. Imagine if someone like ARN worked the exact same match as the Iron Man match with HBK from WM 12... only he added his ARN-ISMS to the whole thing? I think its safe to say it would be far, far from dull, boring, pointless and shitty with terrible selling and pacing.

Bernard/Nagata is awesome shit. While I gave up a while ago on my MOTD list, it was my #12 based on WWF/E, some ROH and some other Japan stuff that I had seen.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I agree Cal, his absolute best work holds up considerably, but its more the middle of the road matches where you begin to ponder whether he'd have many more great matches or even great performances if he worked the same way as people like Eddie, Finlay, Murdoch and so on. Guys who might not have an abundance of truly amazing and 'best in company history matches' but who on a pure average basis are far more likely for me to deliver a good-great performance consistently than Bret.

Watching that Nagata/Bernard match just infuriated me how they've wasted him in WWE. From Bryan, to Bourne, to Punk, to Cena, to Sheamus etc there's an array of great babyface workers he could have worked against in long running programs and delivered with.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't make me think of the match that could have been at WrestleMania 12, Cal. It'll leave me sad that it didn't happen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Peoples in the UK, Punk and Lesnar BLURAY sets are back in stock on SV for the time being. Limited amounts left, and with SV stopping selling WWE stuff in the next few weeks this is likely the last of them. Punk Bluray is a fucking MUST BUY . Lesnar set is great mainly for the matches. Doc from 03 is still good too. But the MATCHES. Vs Rey SD 03, Cena ER '12, Undertaker UF & HIAC, Angle Iron Man, Flair Raw 02, Rock SS 02 and more .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

WOOLCOCK said:


> As for Saint, eh I do like a lot of his work but I'm not going to lie the likes of Steve Grey, Jon Cortez, Keith Haward, Jim Breaks & Alan Sarjeant have impressed me more than him so far. I do love Saint/Grey though from 1/28/80 but a lot of that is founded in how they work it as a hierarchy match with Grey overwhelmed and constantly fighting to escape Saint's trickery. I've made a WOS thread in the Classic section Rah if you ever want some recommendations, hasn't been updated for a bit but I'll be working my way back into it shortly.


Aside from the request I've placed in the media section (Quackenbush/Saint at wXW 16 Carat 2008), I've got Grey/Saint (28/01/1980?), Finlay/Saint as well as Saint's return to LDN against Johnny Kidd in 2007. Not that many, admittedly, but I'm still trying to take my baby steps.

I'm honestly still new to the style, relatively (your thread in the classic section has been on my radar for a good few months), but it's been a style I've grown interest in since first watching an iteration of it last year between Finlay and Saunders.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No desire to see Saint vs Quack from Chikara in '08? :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone here remember the time Andy first said ARN was a better wrestler than Bret Hart? WC, don't think you were around for Austin101 were you? And Cody (what's with the shitty new name?), did you post in here back then? 

Anyway, was fucking HILARIOUS to see A101 go apeshit at the very notion that someone other than Savage or Austin could be considered better than Bret Hart :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Contempt breeds change. Needed one.

Aye, I remember Austin101 all too well. The specific moment however...eh, not so much. Wished I didn't miss it. I can already sense the outlandish moments said by 101.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was looking for a quick change of pace from all the WWE I was watching as naturally you HAVE to do it at some points to save yourself from boredom with the product.

So I watched a few Volk Han matches.

Best. Decision. Ever.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Peoples in the UK, Punk and Lesnar BLURAY sets are back in stock on SV for the time being. Limited amounts left, and with SV stopping selling WWE stuff in the next few weeks this is likely the last of them. Punk Bluray is a fucking MUST BUY . Lesnar set is great mainly for the matches. Doc from 03 is still good too. But the MATCHES. Vs Rey SD 03, Cena ER '12, Undertaker UF & HIAC, Angle Iron Man, Flair Raw 02, Rock SS 02 and more .


Cheers for the head's up Cal, 

Lesnar BR, Best of R&SD '11 BR & Mysterio's 1st 3 disc set. for £20. Last ever order with Silvervision (N)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> Aside from the request I've placed in the media section (Quackenbush/Saint at wXW 16 Carat 2008), I've got Grey/Saint (28/01/1980?), Finlay/Saint as well as Saint's return to LDN against Johnny Kidd in 2007. Not that many, admittedly, but I'm still trying to take my baby steps.
> 
> I'm honestly still new to the style, relatively (your thread in the classic section has been on my radar for a good few months), but it's been a style I've grown interest in since first watching an iteration of it last year between Finlay and Saunders.


Unsure on whether you prefer to use alternate sources than Youtube/Dailymotion but 99% positive the heralded Saint/Grey match of 1980 is on one or both of those sites.

Here it is (its listed as 2/2/80 due to air date/tape date differences):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-siSb6kCH4 (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqN1SMRrLAI (part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg-MNVqDowI (part 3)

Grey/Myers 11/22/75 & Breaks/Street 2/12/72 are the two best WOS matches I've seen so far though. Cantazzaro/Cestra from France in the 60s is a corker as well if you've never seen it. Can again supply a link.



Big Z said:


> Anyone here remember the time Andy first said ARN was a better wrestler than Bret Hart? WC, don't think you were around for Austin101 were you? And Cody (what's with the shitty new name?), did you post in here back then?
> 
> Anyway, was fucking HILARIOUS to see A101 go apeshit at the very notion that someone other than Savage or Austin could be considered better than Bret Hart :lmao.


Wasn't around at the time, but pretty sure I lurked during that time and when I finally joined I read through old DVD threads and sure I came across that discussion. Andy has talked about it since then though so I've got a pretty clear picture (and having you, Andy, Craig, Mike & Seabs regale stories about him I have a pretty accurate idea of what unfolded) of what went down. Doesn't surprise me that he threw a shitfit in light of it though. Man doesn't appear to be playing with a full deck of cards based on what I've seen and heard.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I was looking for a quick change of pace from all the WWE I was watching as naturally you HAVE to do it at some points to save yourself from boredom with the product.
> 
> So I watched a few Volk Han matches.
> 
> Best. Decision. Ever.


:clap


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I was looking for a quick change of pace from all the WWE I was watching as naturally you HAVE to do it at some points to save yourself from boredom with the product.
> 
> So I watched a few Volk Han matches.
> 
> Best. Decision. Ever.


He's likely a top 20 guy of all time (US, Lucha, Japan & Europe) imo. People only see him in shoot style and assume they're lifeless exhibitions but he works so much pro style tendancies into his matches to tease and work a crowd that no-one picks up on. He's the established ace of RINGS and every match vs a promising Japanese native (Tamura, Kohsaka, Yammamoto etc) he knows how to work on top and make himself look truly sensational and then have the crowd coming unglued when he starts to go on the defensive and looks in peril. His counters and matwork are timed and executed so flawlessly that they perfect the balance between looking mindblowing without appearing contrived just because the timing and execution looks too flawless to be a choreographed sequence etc. Plus he works legitimately wonderful finishing stretches such as the Kohsaka match where he gets trapped in an ankle/leg lock variation, scrambles to adjust his position and then pulls off a last gasp stunning counter into an armbar variant to force the immediate tap and escape with his dominance still in tact.

Truly world class and elite level worker. He only has 55 or so matches iirc according to Yeah1993 and you'd be hard pressed to find one truly bad or below par match within that list.

edit: holy sheeeeit Cody knows of AND loves Volk Han? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First got my eyes opened up to his work back in about oh...2008. Yeah. One nifty contribution to a poster who has been banned on this place, but knew his fair share of wrestling.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Was watching some Volk Han & went to look the fucker up but it seems as if most of his professional stuff is completely off the map. If you go to PROFIGHTDB or some other site like that that comprises full lists of matches from a certain worker, he has a profile but NOTHING about him written there, it's strange. Saw a 6-disc comp of his on Corey's discs and was wondering if anybody had copped that before?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> First got my eyes opened up to his work back in about oh...2008. Yeah. One nifty contribution to a poster who has been banned on this place, but knew his fair share of wrestling.


I have a rough outline on who that might be (Feech La Manna?). But yeah, Volk Han/Tamura II is one of the best matches of '97 and when you take into account Damiancito El Guerrero/Cicloncito Ramirez, their October trios return match, Misawa/Kobashi 1/20/97, HBK/Taker HIAC, Mysterio/Eddie Halloween Havoc & the Canadian Stampede 10 man that's truly saying something that its competing with those matches for the top spot.

Fujiwara is still my favourite shoot style worker however, but Volk Han followed by Tamura complete the holy trinity.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I have a rough outline on who that might be (Feech La Manna?). But yeah, Volk Han/Tamura II is one of the best matches of '97 and when you take into account Damiancito El Guerrero/Cicloncito Ramirez, their October trios return match, Misawa/Kobashi 1/20/97, HBK/Taker HIAC, Mysterio/Eddie Halloween Havoc & the Canadian Stampede 10 man that's truly saying something that its competing with those matches for the top spot.
> 
> Fujiwara is still my favourite shoot style worker however, but Volk Han followed by Tamura complete the holy trinity.


Yep, that's the guy.

Han is mostly where my extent of shoot style begins and ends. Watch a bit of BattleArts. Not nearly enough to remember much except for a certain fight where two guys royally knocked the piss out of each other.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Mike Awesome/Tajiri from 2002. AWESOME!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cookie Monster said:


> Mike Awesome/Tajiri from 2002. AWESOME!


This happened during the Invasion?! I must see it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cody that could be the undercard or main event based on BattlARTS :lmao . Yuki Ishikawa, Daisuke Ikeda & Alexander Otsuka are the main guys to look for in BattlARTS/FUTEN imo. Check out Ishikawa/Ikeda 4/24/05 if you haven't already. Contender for best match of the decade and a harrowing war. Ishikawa is the grappling sensation with a proclivity for punching dudes square in the jaw and headbutting a bitch in the snout whilst Ikeda is the lethal striker who is competent albeit overmatched on the mat by Ishikawa but renders that a moot point by putting Ishikawa's dentist's children through college with his precise and ungodly stiff kicks to the mush of Ishikawa.

Ishikawa/Greco from 6/9/08 is also a personal favourite of mine. Greco works more amateur and shoot style with his takedowns and submissions whilst Ishikawa relies more on catch wrestling and pro style submissions. The dynamic is enthralling, each rope break timed to perfection, the counter wrestling looks unco-operative and everything is fought for and a constant struggle to assert dominance over the other and the finishing stretch is mind-blowingly awesome with both men having no rope breaks left and taking it to the mat looking for one decisive counter to end the match. Back when I did star ratings I gave it the full ***** treatment, which is honestly saying something for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Finishing off No Way Out 2005 with a personal favorite of mine ; the Barbed Wire Steel Cage match between JBL & Big Show. I really like how they sold JBL as having the ability to weasel out of any situation no matter what it is, and I always enjoyed the idea of him being locked in a cage that he can't escape through the door (fucking stupid, STUPID shit that would be anyways) and has to be forced to actually FIGHT Big Show in it. The whole idea of it being "No Way Out" and there literally being No Way Out of the cage for JBL is quite the story, love it. Two severely underrated workers going at it with a fantastic stipulation that fits the storyline perfectly.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> This happened during the Invasion?! I must see it.







Enjoy


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I tried finding one of 101's infamous reviews, but it didn't let me go that far back.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just go to WWEDVDNEWS.com, as alot of the EXACT same reviews are archived there.

101 was fucking retarded.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOATAntics said:


> I tried finding one of 101's infamous reviews, but it didn't let me go that far back.


Some pics are missing, but:



Spoiler: Eugene101's WM 3 review



----------------------------------------------------------------


*The Biggest SHOW of ALL TIME:*





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyEktjpjHQY&feature=related



























----------------------------------------------------------------







*Savage101's- WWF Wrestlemania 3 Review:*
























*"OOOOOHHH YEAH, "Macho Man"-Randy Savage, Intercontinental Heavyweight Champion, was in a state of SHOCK when Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat came back, yeah...but thiiiiiis time in front of the largest audience in the world, I will not only embarass you, not only pin you with the one, two, three count, but I'm gonna put you out of Wrestling for good. Ohhh yeah Dragon, I ammmm the lord and master of the ring, and you're going to find that out, one athlete to another, right now! You can't be with MEEEE, No! ......History BECKONS THE MACHO MAN, YEAH!"* 













-_Randy "Macho Man" Savage_ 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywQ2EnGWvAs




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------













*-WWF Wrestlemania 3* took place on Sunday, March 29th, 1987 at the Pontiac Silverdome in Pontiac, Michigan in front of 93,173 fans. 





















-22 years later this remains the most significant wrestling event ever. It remains an event that is still talked about daily. It held the biggest match in Pro-Wrestling history in front of the biggest crowd in history. It also held a five star classic and a number of other enjoyable contests.

-This event is particularly notable for the reported attendance of 93,173, the largest recorded attendance for a live indoor sporting event in North America and the largest paying crowd in the history of professional wrestling. Though the attendance number is disputed, the event is widely considered to be the pinnacle of the 1980s wrestling boom. Almost one million fans watched the event at 160 closed circuit locations in North America. The number of people watching via pay-per-view was estimated at several million, and pay-per-view revenues were estimated at $10 million. :agree: 

-Gorilla Monsoon and Jesse "The Body" are back and are the broadcasters for the evening.

*-Vince McMahon *claims that as he was about to announce "Welcome to WrestleMania III," he felt the spirit of his father Vincent J. McMahon, who had died three years earlier. The show opened with Aretha Franklin singing "America the Beautiful. I don't know whether that's touching or creepy. Either way I loved the passion in his voice, I think that was the first time the Vince "roar" was ever heard and it was well suited at the time.

-Like all other WrestleMania events, WrestleMania III was hyped for several months in advance. The main feud stemmed from André the Giant's kayfabe turn and betrayal of his ally, the WWF Champion Hulk Hogan, which began when Hogan was presented a trophy for being the WWF Champion for three years, and André, his good friend, came out to congratulate him. Shortly afterwards, André was presented a slightly smaller trophy for being "undefeated in the WWF for 15 years" and Hogan came out to congratulate André, but ended up being the focal point of the interview. Annoyed by this, André walked out during Hogan's congratulation speech and not long after that, on an edition of the interview segment Piper's Pit, Bobby Heenan, a long-time Hogan adversary, announced himself to be André's new manager. André then challenged Hogan to a title match at WrestleMania III and attacked Hogan, ripping off Hogan's T-shirt and crucifix necklace.

Another main feud leading up to the event was between Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat and the Intercontinental Champion Randy "Macho Man" Savage. The feud began during a title match between the two when Savage attacked Steamboat as he greeted fans at ringside. Savage then pushed Steamboat over the security rail and delivered an elbow shot that thrust Steamboat's throat into the rail, injuring his larynx and sending him to the hospital. This resulted in a long, bitter feud that lasted for six months, included several bloody match-ups and finally culminated at WrestleMania. George "The Animal" Steele was in Steamboat's corner, having developed a crush on Savage's valet, Miss Elizabeth


-Only two title's were on the line at this event.




-This was the *3rd Annual WWF Wrestlemania* event.












-Now onto the PPV...............













*1) Opening Contest- The Can-Am Connection (Rick Martel and Tom Zenk) vs "Cowboy" Bob Orton and The Magnificent Muraco (w/Mr. Fuji)*





























Mr. Fuji gets good heel heat to start Wrestlemania for the second straight year. 

"Cowboy" Bob Orton poses like his son later would two decades later. Little Randy was seven years old when he watched his dad in this match.

Good solid tag team opener like usual with big PPV's. A lot of fast offensive moves performed here by the Can-Am Connection which got huge ovations. (Crowds still popped for simple sequences like that back then)


Don Muraco started in the ring with Tom Zenk who tied up with him a couple of times in a test of strength which no one wins. Zenk goes into a standing side headlock, pushed off to the ropes and bounced back with a shoulder block. First offensive move hit from Wrestlemania 3 and the crowd explode in favor of Zenk's offense to Muraco. Don Muraco looks a bit ticked off. Relentlessly Don Muraco drove his right knee into the sternum of Zenk back to back with the turnbuckle pad in the corner of the squared circle. The feeling out process was over.

A leapfrog followed by a hiptoss from Zenk to Don Muraco,


Tom Zenk slammed Muraco down!












The Can Am Connection is moving here in a big way, but Don Muraco did slap a side headlock on Martel, which Martel made sure to get out of with another leapfrog off the ropes once he got leverage and then both members of the Can Am Connection hit a double monkey flip. Cowboy Bob Orton got caught right in the middle by the speed of the Can Am Connection.

Orton ties up with Zenk and slapped on a side headlock and then a shoulder block off the ropes by Ace. Orton though off the ropes again gets slammed by Tom Zenk as Cowboy Bob's offense didn't last very long, and then a snap takedown. An armbar by Zenk and then he slams Orton's head into the top turnbuckle before slapping on the armbar again. A knee to the abdomen by The Ace stops the armbar in a hurry and Cowboy Bob Orton slaps a Full Nelson on Zenk. Again, the offense for the Heel tandem doesen't last very long as The Can Am Connection found another way to counter the move and Zenk flipped over Orton to reverse his full nelson into one of his own!

Cowboy Bob reversed it again and then Don Muraco nailed his own partner as he missed the switch and the fans erupted. Tag made, Rick Martel came in and continued the arm work on Ace. A handfull of hair and then an armbar by Martel and another quick tag by Can Am Connection, a lot of continuity being shown. Muraco being rammed hard into the canvas by Martel. Rick Martel slammed him hard into the mat and Gorilla Monsoon points out Fuji didn't like that. Another armringer by Martel to Don Muraco, quick offense continued here by The Can Am Connection. Rick Martel twisting the arm of Don Muraco got caught by Muraco with an irishwhip and then the Ace slid along the apron and got the knee up to Martel and the fans booed. A neckbreaker by Muraco and then he tagged in Orton who snapped him over and got a two count. Orton then leaped up over Martel and both men knock into each other after a criss-cross.

Referee Joey Marella potentially had a double countout but both guys tagged out. Zenk irishwhipped Don Muraco to the corner and he flipped. Double team offense to Orton in the middle of the ring, the action got fast here and the fans got loud. Can Am Connection unloaded with right's. Orton and Don Muraco tried to irishwhip Can Am Connection into each other but they reversed it into a double dropkick after Orton suplexed his own partner Muraco. A switch over the top and Martel gets Don Muraco! Talk about excitement, the Can Am Connection.

In the end Rick Martel pinned Muraco after a crossbody as Zenk schoolboy-tripped Muraco from behind at 5:38.

A very strong tag team opener with a hot crowd ready for a great show. Already off to a way better start then Wrestlemania 2....the WWF must have learned fast.

This contest was a lot better then I remembered, I fondly remembered it consisting of fast sequences where the fans would get involved but I was surprised just how good this one was for the time it got. Some very solid quality tag material here.








*** 1/2*













*2) Billy Jack Haynes vs Hercules Hernandez(w/Bobby "The Brain" Heenan)*




















Bobby "The Brain" Heenan who is the Greatest Manager of all time, made his first of many entrances to the ring in this second match of the night right here. He managed Hercules here in the first single's contest at Wrestlemania 3.



Hercules talks pre-match as if he was the actual HERCULES from many years back, well...wow. I guess he aged pretty well.

There was a good pre-match video with highlights of this mid-card feud which you rarely saw back in those days so this made the match seem more important.


Billy Jack Haynes, called Billy JERK Haynes by Heenan before the match stood toe to toe with Hercules in the ring with a staredown. Both men intense and neither man wanted to give an inch in this battle of the Full Nelson's.


Hercules pulled on the top rope for leverage and then a match of muscle was underway. Hercules shoved Billy Jack Haynes off of him when the two powerhouses locked up. A clean break by Billy Jack Haynes out of the corner. Hercules hit Billy Jack Haynes with hard forearm shots in the corner and then an irishwhip by Herc to Billy Jack Haynes in the corner. Billy Jack Haynes unloaded with chops into a press slam! Billy Jack Haynes went for a Full Nelson and Hercules had that well scouted and he ran to the ropes as a fast defense. Heenan looked on a bit nervous after Billy Jack Haynes had the better of his guy.

Another irishwhip by Billy Jack Haynes but Hernandez came off the ropes and hit a nice desperation clothesline which knocked Billy Jack Haynes down. This stopped the momentum that was being shown by Billy Jack Haynes to this point. Hercules now the aggressor in the match stomped on the head of Billy Jack Haynes who was trying to maintain his vertical base but Hercules Hernandez unloaded with right hand's and hard forearm shots. Hercules then hit a backdrop followed by a hard irishwhip to the turnbuckle. Billy Jack Haynes's back was being softened up by the Mighty Hercules with hard irish-whip's to the corner of the ring perhaps getting him loosened for an upcoming Full Nelson maneuver.

Billy Jack Haynes selling the back as Hercules was measuring him. Hercules hit a nicely executed vertical suplex but it only scored him a two count. Billy Jack Haynes caught Hercules in the abdomen with two right hand shots and he tried to battle up but Hercules got control back and unloaded on Billy Jack Haynes from up top. Hercules continued the work to the back of Billy Jack Haynes and hit a nice back breaker in mid-air of what originally looked like a basic powerslam. Hercules after a back breaker continued levelling the back of Billy Jack Haynes, following up his offense with nice strategic wrestling. Billy Jack Haynes clammed slowly and hard down to the mat by Hercules.

Hercules had nice psychology and now slapped on the Full Nelson.

Hercules locked on the fingers and Ventura scouting this move believed he had to get his fingers up higher on the head but Billy Jack Haynes was going down due to the leverage Hercules had at the time. Somehow Billy Jack Haynes powered out but Hercules dropped a hard shot to the bad back of Billy Jack Haynes. Haynes battled out and both men knocked into each other in a double collision which bought Billy Jack Haynes some time. An inverted atomic drop by Billy Jack Haynes bought him more time but he still remembered to sell the back. Billy Jack Haynes with a running clothesline, then an irish-whip and a running clothesline yet again. A leg drop by Billy Jack Haynes and then he went up to the second rope and dropped down with a slam right between the eyes.













Billy Jack Haynes now slapped on the Full Nelson after a quick set of offensive moves. Bobby Heenan screaming. Hercules got to the ropes and both men were elevated to the floor. Billy Jack Haynes kept the Full Nelson onto Hercules but he had it locked on the floor so the bell rang after a ten count.




This was a lot better then you'd expect when looking at this on paper. A good pace to this bout and very well done from a psychology standpoint.

In the end they both were counted out at 7:04 after Billy Jack Haynes had his Full Nelson slapped on Hercules Hernandez.

After the match, Hercules busted open Haynes with his chain.

Great match!








*****












*3) Hillbilly Jim, The Haiti Kid and Little Beaver vs King Kong Bundy, Little Tokyo and Lord Littlebrook in a 6 Man-Mixed Tag Team Match*






A humerous, short match (no pun intended) that was one of Eugene's favourite moments as said at Wrestlemania 21. Well that's about it. 

The match blew other then that but was never meant to be taken very seriously in the first place.

King Kong Bundy went from having the WM record for fastest victory at the original Mania, to Main Eventing the second Mania to competing in this six man tag with Hillbilly Jim.

It's a long way down from the top.

Haiti Kid and Little Tokyo began the tag match in the ring snapping some moves on each other before the other two midgets, Lord Littlebrook and Little Beaver were tagged in and there was a double criss-cross and all four of them collided. A little rowboat action by Little beaver and then an atomic drop to Little Tokyo. A front facelock by Little Beaver and then Little Tokyo fought back with a few right hands. Little Beaver gave King Kong Bundy a shot standing by the ring post and eventually the big man came in. Little Beaver backed off on his arrival. Beaver and Haiti kid both ran under Bundy's legs and hit a double dropkick on him which as you might of figured didn't move Bundy at all.

Hillbilly Jim was tagged in by Little Beaver now and the fans cheered as the two big guys were going to square off.

Power against power and Bundy caught him with an irishwhip.


Bundy caught Hillbilly Jim off the ropes and planted him.













Hillbilly Jim off the ropes again this time hit a clothesline to King Kong Bundy. Bundy though, keeping this thing back and forth kept on the offense and hit a front facelock to HillBilly Jim. Bundy hit an Avalanche in the corner.

King Kong Bundy unleashed with a ton of shots to Hillbilly Jim in the corner before he slammed Little Beaver. King Kong Bundy dropped an elbow to a much smaller, Little Beaver as the Pontiac Silverdome booed appropriately.

In the end Bundy's team was disqualified when he attacked Little Beaver. 

The referee ruled it was unfair for Bundy to attack a man who was so much smaller than he was. It ended at 3:23.

Nothing more then a match to add to the spectacle of the event, something different.







*1/2**













*4) "The King Of Wrestling" Harley Race (w/Bobby "The Brain" Heenan and The Fabulous Moolah) vs The Junkyard Dog in a "Loser Must Bow" Match*

























Harley Race despite being an NWA wrestler didn't exactly always have amazing workrate but he could still WORK. Unfortunately he didn't do much in the Federation as his best days by this point were behind him.

The Junkyard Dog was amazingly over here and everyone wanted to see him win this one, we got a little backstory to this match with various clips.


The Junkyard Dog tied up with Harley Race to begin the match off in the center of the ring.

Harley Race had a couple of his right hand attempts blocked by The JYD. The Junkyard Dog saw an opening and then delivered some shots to Harley Race. The Junkyard Dog hit a big headbutt to Race. Race though got enough leverage and elevation to send The JYD out of the ring. 

Harley Race went for one of his awkward looking headbutt's off the ring apron to the floor and The Junkyard Dog had moved out of the way, so now it looked even more strange. Heenan helped Harley Race get up and then he flipped right over the ropes as JYD brought him in and Race did a 360 over the ropes.

The Junkyard Dog brpught him in the hard way and then Harley Race did another 360 over the top rope to the outside and his face hit the apron. The Junkyard Dog set up Race for a scoop slam from the apron. The Junkyard Dog locked on an abdominal stretch to Harley Race. Race got out of it with a nice hiplock followed by a headbutt. Race got irishwhipped to the corner of the ring and he did a 360 over the ropes for the fourth or fifth time in the match. The Junkyard Dog went for a headbutt but Race got a belly to belly off after a distraction from The Brain on the outside.



In the end "The King" Harley Race pinned JYD after a belly-to-belly suplex at 4:22 for the win.

After the match, The Junkyard Dog bowed down to Race and then attacked Race and stole the King's robe which got the crowd to pop despite them being dissapointed with the result of the contest.







***













*5) The Dream Team (Greg Valentine and Brutus Beefcake) (w/Johnny Valiant and Dino Bravo) vs The Fabulous Rougeaus (Jacques and Raymond)*






I really love the Dream Team, even though I'm very Anti-Brutus Beefcake. But he was good in this team and almost everything about Valentine is good to me.

As said in the last review, they had a classic match where they lost the tag titles to the Bulldog's a year prior to this event in Chicago at Wrestlemania 2.

The Rougeaus were very good in the ring as well so this match came off well but it's only flaw was it needed to be longer. Much longer. But considering the card at this event, it was acceptable that it wasn't.

Jacques and Raymond Rougeau had a variety of double team moves, they were a quick tag team who worked well with one another as pointed out by Monsoon at the start of this match, they were a lot like the Can Am Connection who started off this event like that.



Raymond Rougeau was caught in a hammerlock by Beefcake until he ducked the chin over the top and hit an inverted atomic drop.

The Rougeau's hit a double team move! That was one of the best things about this tandem, there offense.














The Rougeau's hit a double dropkick to Beefcake.

Jacques Rougeau was now in the ring with The Hammer.

Greg Valentine with a knee lift to Jaccques, he tags out and in comes brother Raymond Rougeau. Ray hit a crossbody to the Hammer and got a two, Ventura puts over how durable he is. A double irishwhip and Jacques caught Valentine with a high reverse elbow. A dangerous high risk move by Valentine and he caught Jacques just barely in the back and proceeded to drop the elbows. Some quick continuity by The Dream Team as Beefcake comes in and does some dirty work before tagging in Valentine again.

The Hammmer slapped on a figure four leglock. Jacques Rougeau was just able to tag in Raymond Rougeau and he elevated The Hammmer up with a backdrop. Raymond Rougeau with a sleeper to Valentine in the middle of the ring. A double team move by The Rougeau's who were about to put The Dream Team away but Dino Bravo came off the top and turned Valentine on the Rougeau's.


In the end Greg "The Hammer" Valentine pinned Raymond with the help of Dino Bravo's interference at 4:03.

After the match Valentine, Bravo and Valiant left Beefcake behind.

Good quality for the time it recieved, but as said should of developed more and we could have had something great.

Instead just basic filler.








** 3/4*













*6) "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs ``Adorable`` Adrian Adonis (w/"The Mouth of the South" Jimmy Hart) in a Hair vs Hair Match*







This match was supposed to be a "Farewell to Piper" at the time, but we all know how ``THAT`` usually plays out in wrestling more often then not.

The REAL match stipulation should of been *"Loser has to watch the other man's Wrestlemania 2 match"* I'm more then positive they would have went all out if that were the case. 


The crowd was HOT for this match and The Hot Rod in paticular especially when he slapped on his famous sleeper hold which we saw from the buildup was certainly a big part of the feud.


This event was booked so well from top to bottom, and even though every match wasn't absolutely tremendous, it was just such smart booking for the most part through the whole way. Great spot on the card for this one in paticular as I've always felt for what emotions this one delivered it was in an appropriate spot on the card.

Adrian Adonis had let Piper know he was coming for him and then god knows what he said before the match.

Roddy had his shirt off at the beginning and he started to nod his head and shake a bit as the crowd started to get loud and on his side. While The HOT ROD began to get Rowdy he needed this extra push for motivation to pull out all stop`s in what was at the time at least, his final match.



Piper landed shots on Adonis and the fans went wild!















Roddy Piper then exchanged with Adrian Adonis as the shots went back and forth.

Piper grabbed his belt and whipped Adonis with it.

Piper grabbed The Mouth of the South and the fans went absolutely wild, but Adrian Adonis had gotten ahold of the belt and started whipping Piper as the fans chanted for Roddy.

Piper irishwhipped Adrian Adonis over the top rope and he did a 360 over the top and Adonis was about to fall off the apron but Piper made sure he dragged him back in with Hart. Piper smacks both there heads together. Piper elevated The Mouth of the South with Adrian Adonis over the top together and Piper looked vicious as the fans went wild. Piper hit Adrian Adonis with rights and lefts before an irishwhip to the corner and Piper sent The Mouth of the South into Adrian Adonis. Jimmy Hart reached right up and scooped up the leg of Roddy Piper taking him out and buying some time for Adrian Adonis. Adonis with a couple of big shots to Piper.

In front of the time keeper`s table Roddy didn`t know where he was and was giving blind shots. Adrian Adonis in control of Piper landed hard forearm shots to the head. 

Adrian Adonis slapped a SLEEPER on Piper and the place was worried. I wonder how many times we had to hear the phrase `Goodnight Irene.` 

Adrian Adonis had the sleeper on Piper and Jimmy Hart could sense victory as he grabbed the clippers. Adrian Adonis thinks his arm dropped three times and celebrates a bit early. Beefcake ran to the ring and made sure he got Piper up.

Adrian Adonis had it won but now Piper locked in the Sleeper and the place goes absolutely wild, one of the biggest pops of all time. Adrian Adonis is asleep, the bell rings and The Adorable one has been put out!



In the end it was ``Rowdy`` Roddy Piper who defeated the late Adrian Adonis by his sleeper hold after Adonis released his own sleeper prematurely at 6:54 of the contest. Then the "Rowdy" one Roddy Piper was revived by the evolving Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake. After the match, Beefcake shaved Adonis' head, leading to him becoming known as "The Barber" for good.


A pretty special match here.

Kind of a forgotten Wrestlemania moment as well.








*** 1/2*











*7) The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart and Jim Neidhart) and "Dangerous" Danny Davis (w/Jimmy Hart) vs The British Bulldogs (Davey Boy Smith and The Dynamite Kid) and Tito Santana (w/Matilda)*


















This was a great match obvioussly. It could of been better but it was certainly one of the best of the night up to this point and when all was said and done was still up there for best match of the entire evening as expected when you have two of the best teams in Pro-Wrestling history going at it.

The Night officially got "DARK" during this match which is always interesting to see during big events as it changed the feel of the broadcast, and I always consider this match the mid-way point of this Classic Wrestlemania.


This was the wrestling debut of ``Dangerous`` Danny Davis the referee. He was the official who was the referee when Randy Savage `stole` the IC title from Tito Santana in the Bosten Garden`s.


Davey Boy Smith, Dynamite and Tito Santana attacked The Hart Foundation before the match officially got underway.

Tito Santana went to work on the Hitman and then Neidhart and the Bulldog were tagged in.


The British Bulldog irishwhipped Jim Neidhart to the ropes now.














Off the ropes, Neidhart was elevated into Bret by the Bulldog. Dynamite Kid tagged in and a headbutt sent him into the canvas. Tito Santana was in the wrong part of town as The Hart Foundation choked him out in the corner behind the official`s back, Danny Davis would know all about that.

Santana leapfrogged The Anvil and tagged in Davey Boy. Davey Boy Smith hit a powerful back body drop to Neidhart. Neidhart got up though and hit a desperation double axehandle drop to Davey Boy. Bret tagged in and The Hitman kicked at Bulldog until he tagged in Dynamite in a hurry. Dynamite Kid irishwhipped Bret to the corner at full speed. Dynamite dropped a headbutt to Bret.

The Hitman with an uppercut to Dynamite in the corner of the ring. There would be instances where the match would get out of hand but The Hart Foundation would make sure they kept the in-ring stuff basic. The Anvil with a chinlock and wearing down the throat of Dynamite. Danny Davis came in the ring and kicked at Dynamite which got him a chorus of boo`s and then Bret came back in and the excellence of execution wore down Dynamite some more. Anvil tagged in again and he tagged in Bret and both Hart Foundation members worked over an opponent so well, Dynamite was in trouble here in a big way. Davis tagged in and did a few moves and tagged out which kept getting him more heat. Bret then dropped a reverse elbowshot to Dynamite, Bret elevated Davis in but he got the worst of it and Dynamite was able to tag in Santana.

The crowd got hot as Tito Santana finally got his revenge on Danny Davis. A flying forearm shot by Santana to Davis. Santana went for the figure four but the Anvil came charging in and clotheslined him off of him. Davey Boy irishwhipped Davis and hit a powerful clothesline. Smith sent Davis in and his bumping was entertaining. Bulldog hit a piledrvier on Davis and then he set up for a well executed suplex, a powerful one by Bulldog. The Bulldog then hit the Power Slam to Davis but Neidhart broke up the count.

Soon, despitr all that offense by the Bulldog`s the match came to an end in unpopular fashion.


In the end it was "Dangerous" Danny Davis who pinned Davey Boy Smith after hitting him with Jimmy Hart's megaphone (behind the official`s back) at 8:52 for the upset win and Dangerous Danny runs off with his teammates, The Hart Foundation and the Mouth of the South.

Some great stuff here, it is always nice to see these teams or just Bret in general.









*** 3/4*












*8) "The Natural" Butch Reed (w/"The Doctor of Style" Slick) vs Koko B. Ware (With Franky)*


















This was certainly not a great match by any means (especially following a hot tag match) but Butch Reed was always underrated, as was Slick and even Koko to an extent due to his gimmick. A lot of underrated bro's in this match fo sho. 

However, nothing noteworthy happens here, just a basic short match that can be considered filler.

The crowd was rather dead for this one as well.


Butch Reed waited in the ring and Koko B. Ware came out with his bird, Franky.

Koko B. Ware got a good ovation as he danced towards the ring.

The two guys tie up and Koko can`t win a test of strength so there is a clean break. Both men tie up yet again by the ropes. Butch Reed gave him two hard shots by the ropes. 

The Natural held onto the ropes for leverage and Koko B. Ware hit a dropkick. Koko then kicked at Reed`s mid-section and the Natural tried to buy himself some time. Koko B. Ware got delivered a shot from Butch Reed. Reed gave Koko B. Ware a hard uppercut into the throat area.

The Natural choked out Koko in the corner but he reversed his irishwhip and hit a hiptoss to Reed. Koko B. Ware hit a dropkick and without hooking the leg only got a two. A small package by Koko gets a two. Koko B. Ware hits a flying cross-body on Butch Reed and then his own momentum allowed Butch to get a count on Koko B. Ware and he held the tight`s for additional leverage.


So in the end Butch Reed pinned Koko B. Ware with a handfull of tights at 3:39. Kind of an ending that felt pretty random and out of no where.

After the match, Tito Santana attacked Slick and ripped his clothes off.

Tito Santana just loves to run in after Wrestlemania matches doesen't he? It's like I said Santana for one reason or another is one of Wrestlemania's most underrated performers and we'll see more of the former BC Lion later on in my reviews. Arrriiiiba. Yeah, I'll never say that again. :no: My apologies...



This match is probably the most forgettable on the entire card. That`s not to say it was the worst match of the night because it wasn`t, this is just the match of the event that meant the least. The pointless filler of all pointless filler`s.







*3/4**













*9) Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (With George "The Animal" Steele) vs Randy "Macho Man" Savage (c) (With Miss Elizabeth) for the WWF Intercontinental Championship*






Well here we are! By this point in the night you could really feel the spectacle of Wrestlemania 3 by the atmosphere which was beyond amazing for this next contest in paticular.












http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywQ2EnGWvAs&feature=related




For the stage to be set with a lot of hype, it better deliver. The buildup had been done absolutely magnificent by both Savage and Steamboat, and then for them to both come through and pass expectations it remains a classic and one of the most talked about matches to this day!


What this match did was inspire so many, it stole the show. Hogan-Andre sold it, this stole the biggest show of ALL time. Relatives, friends alike will still talk about THIS match from March of 1987 even if they do not follow Wrestling anymore. That kind of thing does not happen too often and I have seen this firsthand.

This was the ultimate peak of the career for both Savage and Steamboat, they went out there and arguably did more in under fifteen minutes then Flair and Steamboat did in there 1989 trilogy where most of those matches were double this length. Obvioussly that series and this match are incedibally hard to compare due to the different nature of those matches, and I consider at least two of them better then this match. (Chi Town Rumble and Wrestlewar 89) However this one is rated the same as those at an even five stars. All of them are perfect.




Savage had crushed Steamboat's larynx with a ringbell weeks before and this feud was getting RED Hot in every way, by the time this match took place it had been long awaited.














That would be the driving focus of this match (larynx of the Dragon), where as in the other corner Steele loved Liz and this just made Savage more paranoid and more determined to put that team away.

Savage had been champion for a long time and came out in all his glory in an entrance I consider to be one of the best in wrestling history, the robe, the music, the girl, the atmosphere with the giant crowd, the night sky in the dome, and the buildup to this match in this red hot feud was fantastic.

They brought in a new style to McMahon's company, it's as if Savage and Steamboat brought the NWA workrate to McMahon's company for this night.

This match is magic.

Everything worked so well, absolutely everything clicked, everybody still talks about it to this day and the match wasn't even as long as a single episode of your favourite sitcom, infact it was about eight minutes shorter!

Macho was in his red robe and pointed at both Steamboat and Steele as he took off his IC title that he had defended like a Champion for so long, the bell finally rang, Liz and Steele were outside the ring area, Steamboat and Savage were inside and the match begun!

Here we go! 



Wrestlemania 3 needed match like this to deliver, and not only did this do just that, but everything and more.

Randy Savage went for a sneak attack but Steamboat turned around in time and then Randy Savage put his arm in the air signalling for a test of strength and to say these two were in front and center of the Wrestling world in this momnent in time would be a massive understatement.

Ricky Steamboat hit a nice hiplock to Savage after a go-behind as a nice counter. Savage was frustrated and he decided to then kill two birds with one stone as he not only went out for a walk like we usually see him do but he took Liz by the hand as apparently she was in the wrong place and to close to Animal which was a side story to the match.

Savage with an irishwhip to the Dragon, went for a reverse elbow shot but Steamboat ducked and hit a beautiful deep armdrag, off the ropes through the legs and another deep armdrag by the Dragon! (As he did so well time and time again)

Nice offensive exchange by Ricky ``The Dragon`` Steamboat, seriously awesome stuff! 

Then Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat elevated Savage up by the throat first! Revenge time.

The Dragon is paying Savage back with a choke! The Pontiac Silverdome goes crazy.
















Savage went for a walk as he knew his title reign was in jeopardy. Macho Man eventually got back in the ring and dropped a double axehandle to Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat. Randy Savage got The Dragon to chase him outside the ring and then levelled him in the mid-section, choked him out and hit him with a clothesline. 

Ventura says Savage is the best in all of Wrestling. Well this was in his absolute PRIME.

Savage took on all competitors and choked out Steamboat in the corner of the ring. Savage took on all competitor`s at the time, had ducked nobody.

Randy Savage charged towards Ricky Steamboat in the corner and found nobody home and Steamboat hit a wristlock. Leverage expanded Steamboat to throw an arm ringer on Macho Man and then with a method to his madness dropped the arm over the top rope. Inside the middle of the ring, Steamboat tweaked the arm and dropped a hard shot on the left arm.

Macho Man with a handfull of hair sent Ricky Steamboat to the ropes and he planted Steamboat a reverse elbow shot which bought himself more time to work with.

Macho Man elevated Ricky Steamboat outside the ring after the elbow shot to the face! Fans in Michigan got behind Steamboat but Savage had just bought himself some time after all that terrific offense from Steamboat! Savage held onto his arm that was worked over by Ricky Steamboat and he sold the arm well.

Savage again with a handfull of hair, dropped the elbow into the Larynx of Steamboat! Fine line here, Monsoon speculated on why Savage didn't do this right away where as Ventura explains you need to find openings, catch people offgaurd and do things to make room for other things. I always love when Ventura says that whenever watching this match that I've no doubt seen near 200 times now, it's short enough (and certainly good enough) to watch it that many times. It was perfectly logical and suited the psychology of Randy Savage in this match because he didn't want to be obvious with his gameplan, but went straight into the playbook once finding The Dragon at a vulnerable state in which he did not hesitate to attack the injured larynx of the Steamboat.

Perfect storytelling!

Ricky Steamboat hung onto the bottom rope on the apron as Savage ruthlessly dropped knee shots into the high back of Ricky Steamboat. Savage was intense and dedicated to doing whatever he had to on the biggest stage of them all. Ricky Steamboat brought back in over the ropes by Savage with a snap takeover, an elbow drop and a hook a nice amateur move by Macho Man.















A kneedrop and Savage wasted no time hooking him after these recent offensive attack! The Macho Man only got a two count and picked Steamboat by the hair, went to hit him in the top of the buckle but the Champ rammed Savage head first. Ricky Steamboat got Detroit behind him yet again and he throw a hard forearm shot to Savage, everything on the line and Savage got tied up in the ropes. This was Ricky Steamboat's chance! Savage tied up and then with Ricky Steamboat charging towards him The Macho Man was able to lift up his right leg and kick Steamboat on the mid-section buying him time to get out of the ropes. Savage was motivated to staying in the upperhand but The Dragon pulled out the armdrag and the broadcasters were absolutely right when saying no one did an armdrag like Steamboat. It was his defining offensive move, no one in Wrestling History did one better then the Dragon.

This is one of my favourite sequences of the entire classic confrontation!

Randy Savage was hell bent on elevating Steamboat over the top rope after he got stuck in the ropes and when going for a head of hair like he naturally would, Steamboat said "No" and hit one of those picture perfect armdrag's. Now try and keep up as this is where it gets good. REAL GOOD.

Things were about to turn from innovative, to revolutionary, to LEGENDARY with the pacing in this battle.

After the armdrag of the Dragon he got a shoulderblock and a nearfall, Monsoon points out the beyond insane speed. Ricky Steamboat got caught with the momentum and Savage bouncing off the ropes hit a high knee to Steamboat. Savage threw Ricky Steamboat over the top but he pulled himself back in, hillariously Savage looked back at Ricky Steamboat and he simply clotheslined him over the top. The Animal Steele helped Ricky Steamboat on the outside.

You have to get up pretty early to outsmart the Macho Man said by Ventura and Monsoon even agreed, they sure gave Savage some props despite being the heel.

Ricky Steamboat got knocked on the outside by Savage as he pushed him down, staying on the back of Steamboat. Savage always found an opening whenever he hurt apart of the opposition. Ventura is irate that Steamboat wasn't counted out but the official gave him a pass due to Savage's offense on the outside. The Animal threw Ricky Steamboat back in the ring. Macho Man threw him right back over the top as soon as he got back in! Randy Savage jumped from the top rope in a picture perfect shot from the stadium and he dropped a double axehandle to Steamboat to the larynx of Ricky Steamboat. Savage then looked on top of his game and ready to retain but he went out and broke the count and threw him back in.














What's this, Savage wanting to retain the title like a man? Savage then with bombs away, right between the eyes this time with a double axehandle drop from the top rope to the inside this time, and then an elbow, and a two count. Savage then hit a clothesline and from outside hit a running elbow and then got a series of nearfalls.

Nearfall after nearfall, Savage couldn't put Steamboat away.

Classic, textbook suplex by Randy "Macho Man" Savage but he couldn't put him away!

The crowd goes crazy when Ricky Steamboat hits a punch and Monsoon states "this is beyond wrestling ability, this is guts personified" as he tried fighting back. Macho Man raked the eyes and then hit a beautiful gutwrench suplex. Ventura wanted Hebner to stay consistent with the counting as he found it a bit slow.

Steamboat fought back with chops to Randy Savage and then hit a backdrop to the outside and the place exploded as Savage fell to the outside hitting the floor. The Dragon then broke the count as Savage was down on his knees, obvioussly not worrying if he lost the match by countout to keep the title.















In a familar replay of this match whenever wee see highlights of this epic, Steamboat flew off the top with a hard shot to Savage. Now at this point Randy Savage had thrown everything to Ricky Steamboat so he was desperate.

BUT NOW, now there was a fine line. Steamboat was the agressor. Ricky Steamboat hit a hard shot from the top to retaliate and then got a nearfall as Savage's leg was on the rope. The Dragon still on the attack down in the middle hit a chop to Savage. Randy kept kicking out and Steamboast kept chopping.

Macho Man tried to get to the outside to save himself but Ricky Steamboat kept on the attack with more shots to the face hitting him off the apron.

Savage snuck back in but Steamboat followed him to the outside and then sunsetflipped inside the ring and tried to pull Savage down for a pinning attempt after the Sunset flip. Savage tired to hold onto the ropes but he used his legs to knock Steamboat in the head from both sides to break the count!

Amazing action!

Steamboat with another pinning attempt. Ricky Steamboat with a double leghook and flipped his body over Savage in a unique pinning attempt, no one could believe the battle this was. Jesse Ventrua says "This is one of the greatest battles I have ever seen in my life."


Steamboat with a CrossBody off the ropes!













Steamboat with another roll-up and two and the buzz was certainly in the air. Everyone was talking. Steamboat with a suplex and then a slingshot into the post, hooked the legs from behind, but Savage kicked out with his legs. Steamboat again, Savage kicked out. This time Savage rolled Steamboat up, AMAZING back and forth but Ricky Steamboat kicked out.

Out of desperation the "Macho Man" Randy Savage with a leverage move hooking the tights ramming STEAMBOAT this time into the post. Randy Savage with two reversals throwing Steamboat to Hebner was down and out. Clothesline by Savage. Another powerful clothesline.

Macho is going to the top! Macho is going to the top!

Time stood still here.

A moment for the ages, the beautiful scenery catching Macho Man's elbow drop from the top where the camera zoomed in on 93, 000 in the Silverdome as Randy Savage in the peak of his career hits a picture perfect Macho Man Elbow Drop! He got him!

Savage should have it here but there is no referee, Dave Hebner was still out. Savage was exhausted and slapped some life into him. Macho then resorted to grabbing the ringbell, the same bell that he put the Dragon out of commission with. The Animal snatched the bell but Savage hillariously kicks him in the head.

Savage grabbed the bell and was about to leap off the top but The Animal pushed him off the top and the bell rammed Savage in the head this time! Savage slowly got to his feet but The Macho Man was taken over by a small package by The Dragon!


History has been made!


The finish came at 14:35, YES JUST 14:35! Steamboat was the NEW IC CHAMPION.


Standing ovation by 93, 000 fans, Liz in tears. Randy Savage couldn't believe it.


One of the best stories I've ever seen in front of me in the world of Pro-Wrestling, and this moment will last forever. 

A match that will stand the test of time and LIVE for EVERY Wrestling Fan worldwide forever.
























In my signature you can see a CLASSIC Savage Promo done just days after this epic, it might be one of my favourite ones by him ever and there have been way too many.

Classic is another word you could use for this match, and that is an understatement. It holds a special place for everybody and for me it is a top 10 match of all time and certainly one of the best ever at Wrestlemania, a top 5 in that department if not even higher.

Steamboat ended up getting revenge on Savage by taking the one thing that meant even more to him then Elizabeth, his Intercontinental title.


History Beckons this match.

A Masterpiece!

One of the greatest matches EVER.











*******
















*10) The Honkeytonk Man (w/Jimmy Hart) vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (w/Alice Cooper)*







This crowd was relatively quiet during this contest in comparison to some of the other ones but could you blame them? They had just witnessed one of the most breathtaking matches of all time so it's only natural. These two had a tough act to follow, that's for sure. However the crowd was pretty noisy during the opening sequence of this match which is only natural seeing how Jake Roberts attacked Honkeytonk Man straight away.

Jake had been legitimately hurt by Honkeytonk`s guitar shot to the head weeks before.















The match got underway as The Snake unloaded right hands to The Honkeytonk Man.

The crowd ate that material up as Honkeytonk was a hated villain. Speaking of villains, Jimmy Hart had been all over the place on this night.

Roberts after a succession of right hand`s landed a shot from his knee to the head.


The Honkeytonk Man was slammed back first onto the padding on the mat`s by the time keeper`s area.

Back in the ring The Honkeytonk Man was almost hit with a DDT and and he left the ringside area. The Honkeytonk Man was then shoved into the steel ring post by The Snake!

The Honkeytonk Man brawled back and bought himself some time by shoving Jake Roberts into the steel barricade and Alice Cooper went to help him. Back in the ring the fans chanted for a DDT for Jake Roberts despite The Honkeytonk Man being in control. The Honkeytonk Man lifted a high knee to Roberts and then went to choke him out.

The Honkeytonk Man went for Shake, Rattle and Roll but Roberts hit a backdrop, a nice counter move and the crowd cheered. The Honkeytonk Man got right back in the driver`s seat with shots in the corner but Roberts hit an inverted atmoic drop, Roberts with big right hand`s.



Jake Roberts with Honkeytonk Man in the corner of the ring kept planting him with shot`s.














The Honkeytonk Man was all of the sudden down on his knees begging Roberts to give him a break and The Honkeytonk Man got backdropped again.


After a few back and forth sequences The Honkeytonk Man was able to pull off the upset which Monsoon claims he stole.


In the end The Honkytonk Man pinned Roberts while holding onto the ropes for leverage at 7:04.

After the match, Roberts and Cooper attacked Jimmy Hart with the python Damien and Detroit loves it.

Pretty enjoyable stuff in an underrated rivalry.








****












*11) The Iron Sheik and Nikolai Volkoff (w/Slick) vs The Killer Bees (Brian Blair and Jim Brunzell)*



















The Killer Bees work well in regular matches and this one was no exception. Did I mention this was a perfectly booked event? 

Great timing for this type of match to lead into the biggest match in the history of Professional Wrestling.

Before the match "HACKSAW" Jim Duggan made an appearance interupting the singing of Volkoff and the Shiek and is very Pro-USA (Patriotic) and gets a huge ovation.


Nikolai Volkoff`s singing was short-lived as a result.


Nikolai Volkoff and The Iron Sheik got set to tag on Jumping Jim and Double B.

Nikolai Volkoff and the Shiek got irishwhipped out of the corner they attacked the Bees in and both guys did a mini spin around.

Finally, a legal tag was made and two guys got settled in the ring. Sheik was worked over by both Bee`s who made frequent tags keeping Sheik isolated in there corner and then a douple hiptoss by the Killer Bee`s.

Jumping Jim Brunzell had one of the best dropkick`s in the business and he planted The Sheik with one. Another beautiful dropkick and Nikolai Volkoff broke up the count. Nikolai Volkoff and Sheik cornered Jumping Jim and the fans chanted for the USA, Duggan was leading the chant on the outside of the ring.

Nikolai Volkoff had a bearhug slapped on Brunzell and then he tagged in Sheik who hit two nicely executed gutwrench suplexes and scored nearfalls. Sheik with lower shots to the abdomen. A high knee by the Sheik before he tagged in Volkoff. Nikolai Volkoff and The Iron Sheik with a double elbow smash and then they posed on the top turnbuckle. Sheik went for a Camel Clutch. Duggan hits him with the 2x4.


In the end "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan blasted the Shiek with the two by four at 5:24 to get themselves DQ'd.

Solid tag team wrestling here throughout this relatively short tag match.



















****















*12) Main Event- Hulk Hogan (c) vs André the Giant (w/Bobby "The Brain" Heenan) for the World Wrestling Federation Championship*




















*This is the biggest match in the history of Pro-Wrestling..*

























Watching the entrances with the stare down, commentary and atmosphere still gives me the chills. You know you're "Watching the show" when you see this. And by "The Show" I mean Pro-Wrestling at it's defining moment.

The heat the intimidating André The Giant got was amazing after his heel turn and Bobby Heenan deserves a lot of credit for it as well.





André The Giant just stood there. The irresistible force meeting the immovable object.

Hogan went toe to toe with him.

Hulk Hogan blocked a couple of shots and went for a Slam but André The Giant landed on Hogan.



André The Giant thinks he has the three count! Heenan yells "that was 3!" from the outside but the match continues as many took a deep breath.














Hulkamania was almost down and out just there but Hulk caught a break there.

Ventura thinks it was close and so did many others.

André The Giant kicked at Hogan. Hogan had a sore back because of the failed body slam attempt and André The Giant kept trying to wear him down. André The Giant picked Hogan up with ease and then slammed him in the already damaged kidney area.

André The Giant irishwhipped Hulk Hogan hard twice into the corner which took more air out of the lungs of Hulk and damaged-bruised his kidney-lower back region.

André The Giant backed up his entire body weight into Hogan in the corner. André The Giant delivered a headbutt. All André The Giant here. André The Giant choked out Hogan some more but Hulk sneaked out and the fans erupted. Hogan hit some desperation right hand`s. An elbow off the side ropes and André The Giant was hit with elbow shots by Hulk. Hogan then slammed André The Giant head first into the corner of the ring over and over and Hogan ran off the ropes for leverage but ran right into the big boot of André The Giant. 




André then chopped Hogan. André The Giant had a bearhug slapped on The Hulkster in the center of the ring and he was forcing the life out of Hulkamania seconds at a time with that tight grip.















Hogan gasping for air, trying to get some momentum back while the Pontiac Silverdome helped him by chanting on his name.


Heenan from the outside kept asking for Joey Marella to ring the bell claiming Hogan couldn`t continue and we`d have a new Champion.

After a couple of minutes of André The Giant wearing down Hogan some more, Marella dropped his arm but Hogan shook it off and began to hulk up with 93,000 people behind him. Hogan unloaded with everything he had and connected right hand`s to André The Giant.

Hogan hit a shoulder block and then another one off the side ropes. André The Giant hit a reverse elbow on the third Hogan charge and then André The Giant nailed him with a big boot to the chest area. André The Giant with another chop to Hogan on the outside. 

André The Giant moved the mat and hit a backdrop to Hogan on the concrete which didn`t look very good as Hogan landed very slow. André The Giant fired him back inside the ring. André The Giant irishwhipped Hogan but he ducked a clothesline and hit him with one of his own that took The Giant off his feet.

Hogan had the support of all of the fans and he hulked up as the place went crazy! We`re seing what Hogan was made of.














Then Hulk Hogan did the impossible and slammed the Giant to the mother of all pops. When this happened the building shook just as Hogan had said would happen in a previous promo, and the Wrestling world was never the same. Some consider that moment to be the best moment in Wrestling history. It's definately up there.

Soon after he'd hit his signature legdrop. 

In the end, Hulk Hogan pinned André The Giant after a scoop slam and a leg drop at 12:01 to reatain the WWF Title to a monster sized pop with over 90,000 fans going crazy.





The Hulkster thanked the heavens and poses to the millions watching at home and to all the number of thousands in Detroit. "Real American" plays as the Hulkster stands in his prime in all his glory in one of the best Wrestling sequents of all time. 

The "WWF" had officially taken off and "Hulkamania" was running wild as the driving force behind the 80`s boom.


















Perhaps the most generous I'll ever be for a match to add to its rating, but if I added points for significance, this is the match to do it for and I probably added a star for that alone.








*** 1/4*














------------------------------------------------------------------




*Final Rating for WWF Wrestlemania 3 = 8/10*




This is the biggest PPV ever, and perhaps the most significant. It features two of the most famous matches in Wrestling history and the rest of the night wasn't bad either. There were a number of memorable moments all throughout the night and the venue and atmosphere help add to the overall spectacle this spectacular Mania truely was. This was a huge success and was the event that all Wrestlemania's that followed it would be measured up to. It's arguable that they never have produced a better one and if they did, it wasn't till a decade and a half later. All around, one of the greatest shows of all time.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Notice he delivers a space every time a ' comes into play. I'm guessing this is also one of his reviews, the dashes into each match and the space 's make it kinda obvious. 

http://www.wwedvdnews.com/review-wwe-backlash-2008-dvd/12962/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

EUGENE101 :lol:lol:lol.

Indeed he is Brett Mix, full blown retard.

Anyways, just popped in the Backlash 2005 DVD and I'm watching the extras before the PPV. TRISH & VISCERA'S DATE IS FUCKING HILARIOUS. Love how they built up the pedigree as being some weapon of mass destruction.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

DAT REVIEW TIME:









*Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, I Quit Match
*_SummerSlam 2006_

Rewatched this match that I adore from the bottom of my heart. Truly one of a kind as it put the greatest blader of all time against the Hardcore Legend himself, in what could be arguably considered as the bloodiest match in history. To start, I can say there were A LOT of old school references in this match - Bruiser Brody, Terry Funk, Gordon Solie, fire, the Foley/Funk I Quit match, the old dreaded wooden table with barbed wire... I want to do a pop culture reference myself now. KABLAM! LIFE WITH LOOPY!! ACTION LEAGUE... NOW!!!! OK, done. It was actually a funny match for what it was - Mick's pure sickness and perversity mixed with Flair's plain MADNESS made this for quite the fun journey. As far as hardcore wrestling goes, there was everyhting - barbed wire, thumbtacks, baseball bats, tables, trash cans, overbooking, fire (chants), trash talking (including swears obviously), some innovations, and a great and edgy Boston crowd. The bumps all looked sick as hell, and the stage of SummerSlam really gave a majestic and glamourous feel to this old school war. But the biggest attraction was by far the blood. My goodness, these two bled from every corner of their body (sarcasm but you get it). They were drooling BUCKETS of blood. I watched this match 1st back when I was like 8 years old, and I couldn't believe how bloody it was. It was what introduced me to hardcore wrestling, and I was probably the 1st 8 year older ever to enjoy the fuck out of a match as vicious as that. The ending was exciting as hell, with Flair screaming "fucking bitch" to Melina, and threatning to hit her with the barbed wire bat, but Foley stopped him by quitting off. Just a tremendous, tremendous war from an overall subpar SummerSlam.
*
****1/4 *​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*No Way Out 2005*


WWE Tag Team Championship - The Bashams(c) vs Eddie Guerrero & Rey Mysterio : **** 1/2*

Heidenreich vs Booker T : *1/4 **

Cruiserweight Championship Elimination - Funaki(c) vs Paul London vs Shannon Moore vs Chavo Guerrero vs Akio vs Spike Dudley : ** 1/4*

The Undertaker vs Luther Reigns : *1/4 **

John Cena vs Kurt Angle : *** 1/4*

WWE Championship (Barbed Wired Steel Cage) - JBL(c) vs The Big Show : **** 1/2*


The opening tag match was awesome, and even though I always felt the Bashams were quite bland for my taste, they got a chance to work with perhaps the greatest North American babyface in peril here in Rey Mysterio, with Eddie just oozing charisma with his character here as well. The thing about Eddie in this match is that he puts so much of his character into the match that it's kind of insane, from the big smile on his face that he gets from doubling up tag ropes all the way to the finish of the match (which was also excellent), he was the clear MVP of this one for me. Rey was great fundamentally as always, but Eddie stole the show here and it's another reason why he's a prime candidate for WWE WOTY in 2005. GREAT tag opener that never gets mentioned or talked about.

Heidenreich vs Booker T is awful as you'd expect it to be. I don't know what was up with the WWE pushing Heidenreich, but he was sloppy as balls in the ring and never really had a sense of structuring a match, it was only ever really covered up completely for a great match once (Survivor Series with The Undertaker). It's not like he's in there with the Undertaker either, it's Booker fucking T who isn't exactly a ring general to begin with. This had a moment or two where I was like "okay, the brawling on the outside isn't bad" but then we get a cheap as fuck finish that makes me go WTF.

I'm just going to come out and say it; I fucking hate these little gauntlet/elimination matches where individuals are getting pinned in seconds at every turn. They lack all psychology and I fucking HATE them and they're essentially cheap spotfests to get a whole bunch of guys on the card. Glad they don't have them anymore as this one sucked as per usual with no psychology or storytelling involved, just a smattering of flash pins really. Gets a star for PAUL LONDON, but Chavo wins this so how can it be good?

As bad as Heidenreich is, he's fucking Eddie Guerrero compared to Luther Reigns. Reign's performance in this match is one of the most incompetent performances I have ever seen in the entire history of the WWE, as he can't do ANYTHING right. Snake eyes? fucks it up and takes it off the ropes instead of the turnbuckle. A standard punching match? He has no clue what he's doing. I feel legitimately BAD for The Undertaker in this one kind of how I felt bad for CM Punk at Royal Rumble 2013 in the sense that he's involved in such a piece of shit and you can tell he's trying, but his opponent just will NOT cooperate in making the match a good one. I have NO idea what stopped this from being a DUD for me, as even the big FALSE FINISH was pretty dead, but it's terrible nonetheless. AVOID.

John Cena vs Kurt Angle is decent as a majority of their encounters usually are, however I can't help but feel that their match on this show was rather uninspired. Felt like they were just going through the motions out there for the first little while until things really started heating up, like they tried to take a ten minute match and stretch it out for as long as possible, I don't really get it. I like how they incorporated what Eddie said to John in this match about "Kurt Angle gets MAD if you don't give up, he makes mistakes" and it makes the match alot better than when I saw it as a singular entity. This felt like it was just THERE though and don't get me wrong, alot of people will probably love the shit out of this but I don't know...

The main event is the slight Match of the night for me for reasons I've stated earlier ; it's treated as an actual blowoff match, you CAN'T ESCAPE THROUGH THE FUCKING DOOR (even though Big Show does instead of pulling JBL out and covering him like ht should have, the fuck was up with that), the storytelling was on point with them using the cage a ton in addition to clubbing each other like cavemen, and Orlando with the cutters was awesome as well. THE FINISH THOUGH, THAT'S WHAT MADE THIS SHIT BABY! Oh dear god I remember watching that as a kid and being so pissed off that JBL somehow escaped again. Awesome, awesome match and if you don't like it you can go to hell .

This PPV is preeeeety weak overall, with Rookie Diva segments throughout the night that were complete bullshit taking place in addition to three out of the six matches on the card SUCKING COMPLETE BALLS. There's nothing "must watch" on here either so unless you're a person who wants to see every WWE PPV or something like that, just watch the opener and the main event and save yourself nearly two hours of bad matches. For some reason it was an easy watch for me, so take that what it's worth.

*Cal Scale Rating : 7.5*
​


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Not all matches need to have first class psychology and storytelling. In fact a match full of _flash pins_ is a pretty good way to get the crowd going and can serve as pretty good filler.

Also, Volk Han top 20 wrestler of all time? WHAT? Guy's entire catalog consists of like two dozen matches.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought the Luther match was pretty decent, He worked Taker's neck in a well manner and Deadman sold it like a shot from 12 gauge. **1/2, IMO, But then again i'm a Taker mark, So my opinion dosen't count. .


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Can't belive I've never watched the Cena/Punk match from this year before. It was fucking fantastic. Both showed some real nice moves and counters. I think it is my second favorite of their series behind mitb, although I haven't watched the NoC match since it happend last year and can't remember that much, I should probably rewatch it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Also, Volk Han top 20 wrestler of all time? WHAT? Guy's entire catalog consists of like two dozen matches.


Eh, as a performer I don't think many are better. Of the matches he has that make tape I haven't encountered one I'd put below good and I find his ability to work similarly to Fujiwara in terms of implementing pro style intricacies into his work to create stories and transitions that can make a shoot style match more than a mere flawless exhibition quite remarkable. He's a very gifted seller even if he has to be more succint given the type of matches he worked, his transitions and counters are timed impeccably to envoke drama and tension at the crucial moments and his ability to work simple yet enthralling stories when working the best of Japan is a testament to his ability. He just does everything that I look for and find riveting in a performer.

I recognise I'm likely to be pretty much alone in that regard, but for what he gave us I don't think he could have done much better and I'd put the best of his work up against the best of many others. Lack of variety and depth does significantly hurt him I cannot deny, but on the basis of what he exhibited during his prime run I feel he has enough demonstrated to feel like someone I could comfortably argue belongs in the upper echelon of top tier workers. If he had the room to work more matches I doubt based off of what he displayed that he'd have struggled to create more wonderful matches, though I recongise that's a bit of a moot point since there's no definitive way to assume beyond doubt Volk Han would have produced endless great matches if he worked more matches.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Tis not quantity, it's about quality.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Any Albert/Giant Bernard fans owe it to themselves to watch his match vs Nagata in New Japan from 4/30/06. Wrote about it elsewhere but its likely Bernard's finest performance in a singles match imo:


Is this the New Japan Cup Final? If so then yeah, pretty great stuff. Pretty sure it's on IVP's original Puro sampler disc.



Rah said:


> Tis not quantity, it's about quality.


(Y) (Y) (Y)

Not seen any Volk Han, but that statement is on point.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rah said:


> Tis not quantity, it's about quality.


BROCK LESNAR.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> Tis not quantity, it's about quality.


Agreed. I do see Hohenheim's point, since this isn't mere praise but rather lavish praise which is ranking Volk Han tentatively ahead of some of the most decorated and well respected workers of the last few decades.

Still, quality over quantity would more or less define Volk Han as a worker. Of all the touted greats he by far has the most depleted resume, especially in an age where more and more matches are being discovered that are building replenished cases for so many workers, but the man's talent was quite sublime.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Is this the New Japan Cup Final? If so then yeah, pretty great stuff. Pretty sure it's on IVP's original Puro sampler disc.


It is indeed. Checked to make sure & Ditch has it as the New Japan Cup Final.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I got Wrestlemania 7 on DVD because I wanted to see the Randy Savage/Ultimate Warrior match again because I was so fond of it & hold it in such high regard.

I have to be honest, upon re-watching, the in-ring work doesn't really hold up that well. A lot of really sloppy & lazy wild punches by Warrior. The match isn't as long as I remember. It pretty much kills the Savage elbow. The "why have you forsaken me!" Warrior bits after the Gorilla Press 2-count is super cheesy. The commentators, including Bobby Heenan, were going super ham. Over Elizabeth in the crowd. Over how the match was so great (even before it started, really). Over Sherri. 

There's still a lot of emotion & the Randy Savage babyface turn was well done but after re-watching, I was more interested in if The Warrior kept his gear from that match than the match itself. Savage isn't with us anymore, and if he still has the Savage coat & knee pad, that would be pretty cool. Maybe I'll see if I can get an answer from him on Twitter.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Han as much as anyone, but put him against someone like Jerry Lawler who has boatloads of great matches to his name.

Quality's fine, but you need a BODY OF WORK to be judged on par with the greatest.

Do I say Cena and Lesnar are the greatest of all time because they had my favourite match together? No, that'd be silly.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Han as much as anyone, but put him against someone like Jerry Lawler who has boatloads of great matches to his name.
> 
> Quality's fine, but you need a BODY OF WORK to be judged on par with the greatest.
> 
> Do I say Cena and Lesnar are the greatest of all time because they had my favourite match together? No, that'd be silly.


fwiw Lawler would be well ahead of Han in terms of any ranking.

Still, I'm not proclaiming Han to be the best. I'm simply saying based on the evidence before us, he was a superbly gifted performer with a brain to match his mind-blowing ability in the ring. His dedication and ability to time his transitions as well as he did to envoke tension and pull a crowd into his matches for what were typically exhibitions of matwork skill cannot be overlooked and when you rewatch a ton of his best stuff all the little intricacies he exhibits stand out considerably and each performance feels as great as the last. 

I'd have to think about those I'd put ahead of him if pressed, but for now I feel confident in thinking he's deserving of contemplating ranking him that high. If I were to go through the criteria I look for and the characteristics I most identify with when making personal decisions on workers I'd expect Han to excel in everyone of them and not have a glaring fault. Obviously you have to be careful when comparing him directly to pro style workers since matches were booked and styled to cater for contrasting tastes and audiences, but I think Han would have excelled if he worked an invasion angle into a New Japan esque promotion. He clearly had the brain and vision of a worker to time his grappling, takedowns, comebacks and general offence to perfection and when called upon to sell for his opponents he has some of my favourite succinct and subtle selling of a performer I've seen. Obviously he couldn't be expected to sell in the way someone like Kawada would in pro style, but in terms of bumping, eating strikes, knowing how to convey looking overwhelmed and on the back foot etc Han looked assured and a clear master. Of course so much of this lends itself to Han working a hierarchy as the company ace.

I find the last point a bit moot truth be told. Han's body of work may pale in comparison to that of Lawler and Flair, but it should be pretty evident I'm not basing this on one match but rather a stockpile of assured and effortlessly intricate performances that leave me thinking as a performer few were as adept as Volk Han.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what happen everbody, just a question some guy in the wwe section made a best wwe 2013 matches thread and listed kofi vs perfect's son from superstars as the best this year and punk/cena feb 2? wtf


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

How good is Joe Hennig? I've not properly sat down and watched few of his matches but I see guys like The Rock and The Undertaker training with him? And of course he is the son of the late great Mr. Perfect, have those genes been passed on?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's the WWE section....

Anyways, Edge vs Benoit is still good but doesn't hold up nearly as well as I thought it would due to some of Edge's work in it being off. BIG VIS VS KANE went up alot for me though, I think I'm at the point where my favorite kind of match is just two big FATTIES beating the piss out of one another.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> It's the WWE section...


This mentality is what stops it from becoming any better, honestly. If more people would try to make better threads or replies, it will improve over time. There are a lot of well informed, knowledgeable posters here, if they post with more frequency, things will get better, regardless of which section it is in. The WWE section itself often has several great threads or good replies in otherwise forgettable threads but they get lost in the shuffle. With more quality people replying, they can bump those threads that are decent or have good replies in them and the crap will fall to the bottom.

*EDIT*: I might try to come up with something to try to get the ball rolling, actually. Only way those sections improve is if we as a community improve them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Take a stab at it, I'm sure many of us would jump at the opportunity to ensure that the WWE section does more to improve than to become even more of a place for fuckery .


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I'll style this after Rah instead of Yeah1993, since I am throwing in rating.

*Rock n Roll Express vs Midnight Express 05 24 84 No DQ*

Pre match promos, with the Superdate at the Superdome. Creepy, yet amusing. I am very curious as to how it turned out. Whether it was Morton & Gibson prostituting themselves out, or the women feeling obligated for sexual relations that night. Or, just a date & free tickets, all you had to do was send your picture in. Some of the '80s competitions for the Rock n Roll I have seen total rape bait. Wonder if those women look at them today and wonder, how was I attracted to that? They look like they require assistance to walk, and they are only 55.

Onto the match, it's short, sadly too short. If it went about 3-4 minutes longer with some sensible structure it would of been a classic. Pace was excellent, the spots were done flawlessly, Morton sacrificing himself for Gibson, the selling of the match, concrete floor & ring post by the commentators sold the match, and the most unique finish I've seen seen in my life. Could only imagine Cornette doing that.Will flat out say this is the best performance I've seen from Condrey. Everything he did was done in the serious vigor that he always had, yet rarely used. And, for reinforcement, the commentary is fantastic. Sells the match, and easily adds to it's quality.

*Magnum T.A vs Ted DiBiase 05 27 84 No DQ Oklahoma City*

A short match, which had disappointed my expectations for this. But they work a great story into it. Simple, quiet story with a loud, obnoxious brawl as it escalates. Punches, selling and facial expressions from both men throughout was stuff of the greats, but as the finish rolled on, and being clean, I can't help but feel disappointed. Voted in the top 25 of DVDVR's Mid-South comp, I only feel it's a great match that wasn't going to ascend to the classic tag due to time constraints. They needed a longer heel control segment by DiBiase, and a longer window for Magnum's babyface heroics. Everything else ticked though. ***1/2 Audio switch also fucked it up. Can't go wrong with Jim Ross, except in that moment.
*
Magnum T.A vs Ted DiBiase 05 27 84 No DQ Tulsa*

Basically here, they work a match similiar in structure. DiBiase cheap shotting, brawl to the outside, plead in the corner and into a brawl. However, this one is already off to a better start. Magnum had the beauty of making a lot of his basic offence look sublime. Especially his dropkicks. Think I forgot to name him in that Forgotten Gems thread.

As this match develops, everything they did became an art form. Every punch was captured in outstanding beauty by the sole cameraman. Magnum, blood running down his face, turns in a performance that makes him look an absolute champion. As he stands atop DiBiase, pounding away, his face darkened with the lights shining down on his back, beautifully captured moment which illustrates the story of the match. DiBiase, standing toe to toe, comes up short once again. But this match usurps Oklahoma pretty easily. While it kept to almost the same amount of time, this match will probably become synomonous with Mid-South for me. Crowd roaring on behind Magnum, the peoples champion, blood oozing out of his forehead, as the villainous DiBiase attempts to batter him lifeless. A brawl that perfectly captures this time period. ****1/2

This review style should help me get through this set in a great pace.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Kofi vs. Cesaro!


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Take a stab at it, I'm sure many of us would jump at the opportunity to ensure that the WWE section does more to improve than to become even more of a place for fuckery .


I hope you're right. I messaged about a dozen people, seeking thoughts & ideas. So we'll see what happens.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Anyone watch Kofi/Cesaro from Main Event last night? If so, how was it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fack the duble duble e secshion.

I'm a sodding MOD of the wwe sections... and I barely leave this thread :lmao. If there is something I really wanna discuss then I post it here or on another forum.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was good, but both men had better on Main Event (vs Orton for Claudio, vs Miz for Kofi).

Anyone else remember Rock vs Eddie from '02? A true TV underrated gem, reminded me of the Rock vs Jericho mmatches a lot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everything ultimately degenerates into the same 10-12 topics, that's why I usually try to stay the fuck away unless there's something really ridiculous that I feel the need to address. I mean, let's look at the WWE section now; there's a thread about The Rock's BIRTHDAY FFS. It's bad enough that the WWE had a birthday celebration for the fucker two years ago, but this is a little over the top.

Anyways, I can't believe Backlash 2005 was 8 years ago yesterday. MAIN EVENT TIME :mark:.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Anyone watch Kofi/Cesaro from Main Event last night? If so, how was it?


It was good man. I'd say it's worth a watch. Loved how Cole was getting so hype during the match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I find the last point a bit moot truth be told. Han's body of work may pale in comparison to that of Lawler and Flair, but it should be pretty evident I'm not basing this on one match but rather a stockpile of assured and effortlessly intricate performances that leave me thinking as a performer few were as adept as Volk Han.


That was in response to the guy that said quality over quantity.

I accept your arguments regarding Han, but you're obviously placing him that high based on his ability and not his body of work (which is respectable tbf). But I could make an argument about how talented Dean Ambrose is, because pretty much everything he does in the ring is perfect for his character. But that wouldn't justify me claiming he's one of the greatest.

But I get your point.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

feeling like a doc type of day, good thing I have netflix probably watch The GOATS heartbreak and truimph or Jericho one. Just need to boot the ole PS3 up. btw I know its un wresting related but who else is stoked for GTA V


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Heartbreak & Triumph =


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> That was in response to the guy that said quality over quantity.
> 
> I accept your arguments regarding Han, but you're obviously placing him that high based on his ability and not his body of work (which is respectable tbf). But I could make an argument about how talented Dean Ambrose is, because pretty much everything he does in the ring is perfect for his character. But that wouldn't justify me claiming he's one of the greatest.
> 
> But I get your point.


That's fair enough. I just liken Han to someone like Funk or even Arn in that I've not seen as much of their work compared to various others workers yet every aspect of their performance consistently entertains me and for me does everything I consider necessary to consider someone a truly great worker. 

The point about body of work is merited, since depth and variety in working different promotions, different opponents and different styles takes unparalled versatility and displays a natural talent as a worker to constantly evolve not only to new surroundings but also in respect of age and the body breaking down. Funk's ability to work so brilliantly in All Japan as a beloved babyface in bloody brawls and clean wrestling bouts, work Memphis and JCP/WCW as the pyschopathic heel and then transition into his ECW run as the hardcore veteran is a primary motivator for why I hold him in such high regard (might call him the most naturally talented worker of all time) for example.

Still, Han's lacking in terms of body of work (though I will argue given the sheer volume of matches above good that have made tape from him, his body of work isn't as depleted as it could appear from your POV, even if it is far less than that of the Lawler's, Flair's and so forth of the wrestling industry) shouldn't necessarily work against him. I mean whilst Flair's sheer volume of great matches in separate decades against workers of various sizes and styles is something many argue makes him the best of all time, his extensive body of work also counts against him with his significant decline in the late 90s up until '05 where he appeared to have a resurgance in quality and had a great year working against HHH, Edge & finally Show and Foley in the summer of '06. 

I'm not saying Flair's prime should be hurt by his inevitable decline as his body broke down and he was placed in a system and environment which saddled his passion for the business, but at the same time it is a significant black spot on his career whereas a guy like Han has a consistent high quality run spanning numerous years before eventually drifting away without a noticeable decline in quality.

Basically, I appreciate plugging Han to such lengths based soley on his performances and succint abilities in the ring to elevate the shoot style formula into something truly gripping and lending itself to a pro wresting dynamic whilst he has a far shorter body of work could be seen as eyebrow raising, but at the same time whilst I accept the merit behind 'body of work' counting especially when it concerns Lawler, Flair, Funk & Hansen I do think it can also work in Han's favour, simply because he had a brilliant peak run working guys of various abilities from great adversaries such as Tamura to working some scrubs that RINGS provided him and his career slowly ended before he could have a significant decline that would detract from some of his best performances.

Bottom line, people need to watch more Volk Han.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK I finished that lucha match you pimped. Was rather impressed, and I agree that the shoddy camera work enhanced the overall grittiness and barroom brawl-esque vibe that the two beating the shit out of each other already encompassed. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> WOOLCOCK I finished that lucha match you pimped. Was rather impressed, and I agree that the shoddy camera work enhanced the overall grittiness and barroom brawl-esque vibe that the two beating the shit out of each other already encompassed. (Y)


You hear that Seabs(if he's reading the thread)? No good reason not to watch it.

Glad to hear the beauty of a Lucha apuestas match was evident for you. They've produced some of my favourite matches and feel as good as the best brawls from Memphis & Mid South in terms of how to work compelling bloody brawls to put over the hatred and drama in staking your hair against another man. Glad the viewing quality wasn't enough to deter you. I can appreciate to some the grainy footage makes it hard to keep your attention focused on the match, but as you alluded to it presents a sleazy charm and makes everything look so rugged, violent and dirty rather than a heaving produced HD camera covering the action. It looks authentic and eerily realistic with every bump and strike and the stained ring canvas just increases the belief you're watching two men who've just turned up to fucking fight. The HD cameras in modern day WWE just alert the viewer in how overly scripted and controlled the whole match is, thus taking away from the unpredictability and chaotic nature that makes for the best brawls.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Anyone watch Kofi/Cesaro from Main Event last night? If so, how was it?


You should watch it. I'm not sure many others will find it as highly praisable as I have, but it certainly shows Cesaro to be the freakishly strong Swiss that he is. I'll copy over my review of it from the 2013 MotYC thread in the Other Section:



Spoiler: rating




*Antonio Cesaro Vs Kofi Kingston (WWE 01/05/2013)*
★★★★
_What a carry job by Cesaro. Once again this was a match where Cesaro shows off why he is simply the greatest wrestler in WWE, making yet another poor performing opponent come across as competent. 

They plugged Cesaro huge here, and certainly allowed for him to get himself over in a big way. Whether it'll work or not, remains to be seen but I'm sure there will not be a single person not impressed by what he brought here. His strength is second-to-none, perhaps. The focus on Kofi's knee was really well done (even if Kofi would be very flippant in his selling) and it allowed for Cesaro to believably remain in control throughout without weakening Kofi's credibility. I thought the finish was a bit iffy, admittedly I'm not a fan of Kofi picking up the win, but it's more personal preference than an objective fault.

Fifth greatest match so far from the WWE collective, and its fifth MotYC. Jaw-dropping when you realise this is on a "throw-away" C-show._​





The Lady Killer said:


> WOOLCOCK I finished that lucha match you pimped. Was rather impressed, and I agree that the shoddy camera work enhanced the overall grittiness and barroom brawl-esque vibe that the two beating the shit out of each other already encompassed. (Y)


Which lucha match was this?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just had a really random thought:

In celebration of the War Games dvd being released this year, WWE should bring the match back one last time at Payback in Chicago. WAR GAMES:

The Shield & a 4th Mystery Partner(BATISTA? ) vs. John Cena, The Undertaker, & Team Hell No

That'd be cool as shit & would allow some of the mid/uppercard workers to shine on PPV. Cesaro, Dolph, HENRY, etc.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> You should watch it. I'm not sure many others will find it as highly praisable as I have, but it certainly shows Cesaro to be the freakishly strong Swiss that he is. I'll copy over my review of it from the 2013 MotYC thread in the Other Section:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will watch Kofi/Cesaro tonight. Heard great things and by all accounts its a Cesaro showcase. Seen a gif of one counter and it looked incredible.

Match TLK is referring to is Sangre Chicana vs El Perro Aguayo, Hair vs Hair 2/28/86: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QupMDu8c8Ts

Wrote about it here, but on first watch I thought it was maybe better than Chicana/MS-1 from '83:



Ramblings of a Welshman said:


> *Sangre Chicana vs El Perro Aguayo, Hair vs Hair (2/28/86)*
> 
> Best wrestling discovery I have ever made? This would do well to leave my top 3 brawls of all time truth be told and on first watch it feels like a surefire MOTDC. The chemistry these two men have is frightfully good. The punches, the bumping, the expressive selling, the build and pacing through to the final fall, their ability to make themselves come off as superstars and create this magnetic and pulsating atmosphere that immerces itself into every nearfall in the 3rd fall (of which there are at least 20) is second to none. Chicana is such an underrated brawler, technico and arguably as a worker in general. His offence is magnificent, his expressive selling as compelling and gripping as anyone that has come out of America and he just controls a crowd throughout the match. Perro to his credit isn't far behind and really manages to come off as the ultimate foil to the beloved Chicana. His offence, bumping and timing is extraordinary and he contributes just as much to the match and sequences as Chicana does. All the heat and control segments are enthralling and brilliant with both men timing everything to perfection and bumping stupendously to draw the crowd into everything. Chicana's comeback and its entire build and payoff in the 2nd caida is some of the most beautiful work I've seen in Lucha, and it all stems from the emphatic beating he takes in the opening caida and throughout the second. I can't describe just how violent, authentic and passionate the sequences between these two feel. It truly has that vibrant feel that you only get from two of the very best in this sort of setting.
> 
> The final fall may be a top 3 I've seen from Lucha. There's an absurd amount of nearfalls but they build the monumental nearfalls (any submission as well as a couple of quick desperate roll ups) as pivotal and even the minor nearfalls are paced and sold well enough that you can excuse them as just emphasising the desire to win. Neither man cares about following up on offence, the minute their opponent collapses to the ground they'll drop to pin him and save their hair. The dives in the final fall again add to the escalating drama and put over the need to win the match, Chicana's however is the best of the bunch and looks spine shattering as Perro crashes into a row of seats upon impact. The crowd as well add so much to the match, but especially that deciding caida. Every punch, every kick, every nearfall gets a reaction and you can feel the terror in their voices whenever Chicana looks to be on the brink of defeat and the bedlam when he manages to force his way back into the match. Honestly, if you're not a Lucha enthusiast the final fall could prove to much for you, but when you come to understand the psychology in Lucha hair matches and especially the importance of that final fall, this was just awe inspiring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just had a really random thought:
> 
> In celebration of the War Games dvd being released this year, WWE should bring the match back one last time at Payback in Chicago. WAR GAMES:
> 
> ...


Fixed .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Even better! The match has already made itself, it'd be a shame if it didn't happen.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rah convinced me to watch Cesaro/Kofi.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, I knew it. Just been through my DVD's and found Live in the UK April 2008. Which I just bought AGAIN on SV. So now I own 2 Live in the UK DVD's twice . Bah!

They'll go towards prizes at some point in my videos .

Now own 23 wrestling Blurays .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No doubt it's a very good match and a GREAT showing from Cesaro, but I really hated that finish. It's like one of those Cena AA out of nowhere finishes where I just wanna yell FUCK YOU at my television screen. Brian Cage superplex spot is (Y).


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Wow, that Youtube channel is another goldmine for me to plunder. Definitely throwing that on the "to watch" playlist for this weekend, too. If you're plugging it at the level of MS-1/Chicana then I must get into this ASAP.

Off-topic, Chicana's really let himself go the past couple years. He, honestly, looks terrible for his age. Though I suppose legends cannot live forever.


Spoiler: picture

















Jack Evans 187 said:


> No doubt it's a very good match and a GREAT showing from Cesaro, but I really hated that finish. It's like one of those Cena AA out of nowhere finishes where I just wanna yell FUCK YOU at my television screen. Brian Cage superplex spot is (Y).


I can grant that it's understandable in a kayfabe sense (it wasn't as if he no-sold everything, it truly was a desperation move) but the fact Kofi wins? :no:

The feud will probably continue, however, so I'm going to let my personal disdain slide (for now). As long as it keeps Cesaro in the spotlight I'm all for anything.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Man, just rewatched that AWESOME 3 minute Tajiri vs Ultimo Dragon match from SD 10/9/03. Super short but super fun. These two legends did a lot more in 3 minutes than Rock and Cena in 30.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

ATF said:


> Man, just rewatched that AWESOME 3 minute Tajiri vs Ultimo Dragon match from SD 10/9/03. Super short but super fun. These two legends did a lot more in 3 minutes than Rock and Cena in 30.


*I used to love watching Smackdown 02-06 for the Cruiserweight division. I've always loved the Tajiri/Rey matches--especially the match they had on the first 2004 episode of Smackdown.*


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Rah convinced me to watch Cesaro/Kofi.


Same here. After Jericho/Bray Wyatt from NXT this week anyway.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Everything ultimately degenerates into the same 10-12 topics, that's why I usually try to stay the fuck away unless there's something really ridiculous that I feel the need to address. I mean, let's look at the WWE section now; there's a thread about The Rock's BIRTHDAY FFS. It's bad enough that the WWE had a birthday celebration for the fucker two years ago, but this is a little over the top.
> 
> Anyways, I can't believe Backlash 2005 was 8 years ago yesterday. MAIN EVENT TIME :mark:.


8 years ago today, Chris Benoit made Triple H tap out once again. 

Might rewatch that Gold Rush match to celebrate the anniversary. Can't believe how fast time flies.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just rewatched one of my fav.PPV's- Summerslam 2001:

Edge/Storm- ***1/2
Spike&APA/Test&Dudleyz- **
Tajiri/X-Pac- **3/4
Jericho/Rhyno- **3/4
RVD/Hardy- ***1/4
DDP&Kanyon/BOB- **1/4
Angle/Austin- ****1/4
Rock/Booker- ***3/4


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> 8 years ago today, Chris Benoit made Triple H tap out once again.
> 
> Might rewatch that Gold Rush match to celebrate the anniversary. Can't believe how fast time flies.


*That whole Gold Rush tournament created some awesome moments (HBK-Benjamin match, Edge + Lita pairing). RAW 2005 was some great stuff.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge/Storm- **1/2
Spike&APA/Test&Dudleyz- *
Tajiri/X-Pac- ***3/4
Jericho/Rhyno- ***3/4
RVD/Hardy- pile of turd
DDP&Kanyon/BOB- **
Angle/Austin- ****3/4
Rock/Booker- **


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> 8 years ago today, Chris Benoit made Triple H tap out once again.
> 
> Might rewatch that Gold Rush match to celebrate the anniversary. Can't believe how fast time flies.


I've got that match along with the March 14th match to watch in the final entry of my HHH/Benoit project. Excited to watch them again, we never really got enough HHH/Benoit single matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I've got that match along with the March 14th match to watch in the final entry of my HHH/Benoit project. Excited to watch them again, we never really got enough HHH/Benoit single matches.


Tbh, I'm satisfied with what we got. A couple of PPV matches, some great triple threats, an ironman match and some other solid TV matches. More than enough if you ask me! Now for what we didn't get enough of (or at all)... HHH/Eddie, HBK/Benoit, HBK/Eddie, Taker/Benoit, Taker/Eddie.

This is one of the biggest negatives about the brand split. Some names were separated from each other which prevented us from getting a few classic match-ups.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This is what I posted about Kofi/Cesaro in the Main Event thread:



> Okay so I watched Kingston/Cesaro. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a match where the quality of the performances from the two men were polar opposites quite like this. On one hand you had Cesaro putting on a personal showcase with some awesome stuff, on the other you had Kofi looking somewhat clueless and unbelievably bad on offense apart from one or two cool looking counters. I'd call it a good match, but it was ALL Cesaro. It's a shame, this is only the second time I recall him getting the chance to work 15 minutes and his opponents have been Kofi Kingston and Randy Orton.


I feel like I need to watch it again. Not surprised the guys in the Main Event thread loved it. It was the type of match more casual fans would mark for, but it's garnering some praise in the MOTYC thread too so I feel compelled to give it another viewing. As I said, it's a good match and Cesaro is a BOSS in it so for that alone it's worth checking out. Kofi though... (N)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wish they'd give Cesaro that kinda time with someone LEGIT. Gonna check that match out regardless, though.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Imagine if Cesaro put in that kind of performance against a babyface that is actually _interesting_ on offence? Someone like Evan Bourne or John Morrison. 

Imagine.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cesaro/Bourne, Cesaro/Rey (if he can still hang), Cesaro/Danielson would all be awesome. I'd of course mark for Morrison in general.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro/Ohno IN A FUCKING WWE RING is where it's at.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched y2j's breaking the code doc on netflix, great doc just cant believe HBK wasnt on it as they spoke about both feuds intensely, but you get your token MIZ input that nobody cares about


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

ATF said:


> Cesaro/Ohno IN A FUCKING WWE RING is where it's at.


They had a match in FCW which was comfortably Ohno's best down there, albeit still not brilliant. Ohno/Regal smokes it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> just watched y2j's breaking the code doc on netflix, great doc just cant believe HBK wasnt on it as they spoke about both feuds intensely, but you get your token MIZ input that nobody cares about


MIZ seems to have found his way into every WWE doc in the last few years. Apparently he's got that GREAT INSIGHT.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I adored Cesaro/Ohno on my first watch  May need to watch it again, though.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Did you ever see Ohno/Rollins, flux? I know some people praised it at the time but I thought it was godawful :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> MIZ seems to have found his way into every WWE doc in the last few years. Apparently he's got that GREAT INSIGHT.


yea I dont understand why- on everyone he say "superstar the dvd about" was his favorite and loved him, he just comes off as so fake


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I went on a crazy 2011/2012 FCW binge a few months back so I probably did watch it. I guess the fact that I can't remember it whatsoever says enough about my thoughts about the match. I'll give it a rewatch now (Y)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> yea I dont understand why- on everyone he say "superstar the dvd about" was his favorite and loved him, he just comes off as so fake


Miz and Sheamus were both on Foley's new doc talking about "where they were when Foley was thrown off the cell in 1998." Can't believe the producers think people actually give a shit.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thought I’d pull out the ol’ Hell in a Cell DVD on this cold and rainy Thursday. Starting out with what some say is the GOAT cell match in HBK/Taker.


Spoiler: HBK/Taker HIAC



This was a great story before the bell even rang, with Shawn showing the fear of being locked in the HIAC with the Undertaker, watching anxiously while the cell is locked up and with Triple H on the outside “trying to console Shawn Michaels” as Vince said on commentary. Then, with Taker stalking HBK around the ring. The constant “Shawn’s trying to get away from Taker” story was just great. 
Won’t go all out with the review here, but some great usage of the cell, and Shawn takes a crazy bump early on, landing straight on his back after Taker throws him over the top rope. Cool spot with Taker bearhugging Shawn and taking turns running him into the ring post and the cell a few times. 
Michaels climbing the cage and dropping the elbow was pretty innovative use of the cell. Vince apologizing to the family of the cameraman that HBK beat up inside the cell was LOL worthy. Amazing how someone can do the same things as a heel and face and get different reactions. Like when Shawn does the kip up after his flying clothesline, Vince says he’s “showing his arrogance”, but when he’s a face, he’s “resilient”. Oh well, back to the match. TAKER USING SHAWN LIKE A LAWN DART IS AWESOME. Shawn was introduced to two of the three announce tables in this one, falling on one from the cell, then thrown on another by Taker. Pretty sweet chokeslam from the top rope once they get back inside the cell. OH MY GOD THE LIGHTS JUST WENT OUT WHAT IS THIS MUSIC?!? Vince that oh so memorable line, “That’s gotta be…That’s gotta be Kane!!” Always forget just how freaking big Kane was in his earlier years. That first mask he had was so badass. Took him a bit to figure out which way to face to hit the Tombstone (like, he was spinning around til he figured it out), that gave Shawn the chance to cover for the 1-2-3. Great match, great story. *****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ just the best match ever man ****************** the story telling, the usuge of the cell, the blood, the superstars, the feud, just everything :mark perfecto

EDIT: and feel bad for you brotha nothing but sun and blue sky's up here in Jerz for the past week and half


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> just watched y2j's breaking the code doc on netflix, great doc just cant believe HBK wasnt on it as they spoke about both feuds intensely, *but you get your token MIZ input that nobody cares about*


:lmao

God, it's annoying to see him speak on every DVD. Watched Foley's doc recently and he had speaking parts in it when he's got nothing to do with Foley's career. And I agree that he comes across as totally fake.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*The ULTIMATE 3 minute gem found:
*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Imagine if Cesaro put in that kind of performance against a babyface that is actually _interesting_ on offence? Someone like Evan Bourne or John Morrison.
> 
> Imagine.


Exactly what I kept saying. If only...

How it's getting some MOTYC praise is unusual. I know Cesaro was the man, but jesus.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

links to this kofi/Cesaro


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Have you seen it, Cody? If so, thoughts? I plan on watching tonight.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*@Shepard* I completely agree with you with regards to Ohno/Rollins, I disliked it. It was a 16 minute match that should have been half that but felt like double, if that makes sense :lmao It was just counters, moves and more counters, and whilst that can be fun when done right, it certainly wasn't here. That's not to say that the moves and counters weren't good, because some of the exchanges were great, it's just the match felt so empty, blase and emotionless that I don't really give a shit.

Might have to check out an ROH match of theirs to see how that holds up in comparison :hmm:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> *The ULTIMATE 3 minute gem found:
> *


Fun match. Could have been great given more time. Benoit always made the most out of everything even when given 2-5 minutes.

Some random ratings:

Jeff Hardy vs Shelton Benjamin vs Super Crazy vs Chris Masters (Raw 16/10/2006) - ★★★¼
Randy Orton vs Triple H (Raw 16/10/2006) - ★★½
Chris Benoit vs Triple H (Raw 2/5/2005) - ★★★★ (even better than I recall it being. Benoit's selling is top notch!)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> I feel like I need to watch it again. Not surprised the guys in the Main Event thread loved it. It was the type of match more casual fans would mark for, but it's garnering some praise in the MOTYC thread too so I feel compelled to give it another viewing. As I said, it's a good match and Cesaro is a BOSS in it so for that alone it's worth checking out. Kofi though... (N)


Weirdly, that's how great Cesaro was. He morphed Kofi's botches into sequential moments (iirc, as an example, he transitioned Kofi's failed roll-up into a leg submission) and managed to keep the champ on the right path. Complete and utter carry job that probably outshone what it should have ever been.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Crispin Wah

*@Rah* I couldn't get into it fully because of Kofi. Maybe I'll like it more the second time around.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> yea I dont understand why- on everyone he say "superstar the dvd about" was his favorite and loved him, he just comes off as so fake


To be honest, I don't mind the Miz. He can be annoying at times when he speaks on the DVDs but at least he speaks through a fan perspective and is pretty passionate when he talks about certain things. There are others who are way worse who give us pretty pointless and generic insight and look like they would rather be somewhere else.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Triple H vs Stone Cold vs The Rock vs The Undertaker vs Rikishi vs Kurt Angle Armageddon 2000*​
Seriously don’t know when I watched this last, maybe been several years. Ooh, this Triple H theme is freaking awesome. It sounds like My Time, but with no lyrics. Pretty cool. Rikishi seems so out of place here, but I guess he was part of the Austin/Rock/Trips story and for running over Austin. He would end up being part of the biggest OMG spot in the match. I wonder if they went around the table and said, “Okay, who wants to get chokeslammed off the top of the cell.”

This is a wild Attitude Era brawl. Most of the fighting takes place on the outside. Comical-yet-painful looking spot with Austin raking Triple H’s face all the way around the cell. Game sticks the Pedigree on Rikishi and gets a close two before Rock’s breaks up the count. Rock gets a close count before Angle breaks it up. Then Angle hits the Angle slam and gets a close count before Austin breaks up the count, THEN Taker breaks up the pin and drops Austin with a chokeslam, before Triple H breaks up the count. So now almost everyone has broken up a pinfall. 

Then comes the farm truck full of hay with Vince and the stooges on the of truck bed. What is this shit? I knew the truck was brought in, but forget the context. OH NOW I GET IT. This plays into Vince not wanting this match, and trying to talking everyone out of the match because it wasn’t safe. He’s got the driver of the truck hooking up some chains to the cell, with Vince instructing him to tear it down. Then here comes Commissioner Foley. Arguments ensue, and Foley takes out Patterson and Brisco, and Vince is hauled away, screaming “I own this place! I own this damn place!!” GOAT heel work from Vince as always. 

And now the cell door is open and guys start pouring out. Game looked like he was trying to peace out, and Austin runs him down and Game gets introduced to a few rusty old cars, as well a swinging camera. Austin then gets put through the window of that construction truck. So now everyone is out of the cell and brawling around the rusty old cars. It’s just fuckery now. Rock takes a Rock bottom on the top of one of the cars. Game gets catapulted by Austin onto one of the cars. Pretty sweet looking catapult, actually. Austin takes a metal barrel and rares back and Trips just gets out of the way. 
Triple H, trying to escape Austin, climbs and Austin comes up the other side. The two exchange blows up there, and Austin hits the Stunner. Angle and Taker make their way up, while Trips and Austin make their way down. ANNNND here comes Rikishi and Rock joining the party on the top of the cell. Wasn’t sure if Rock just said, “Fuck it, I’m getting up there”, or if Triple H pulled him down. Rikishi takes the attack to Taker, while Angle decides to peace out and climb down. Taker is up and starts taking the fight to Rikishi. Rikishi is getting awfully close to the edge and Taker starts with his bloody headbutts. Jerry Lawlers talks about how Taker has thrown people off the top of the cell but that he may be the one thrown off tonight. THEN IT HAPPENS. Chokeslam from the cell. Austin’s facial expression was gold after seeing the big guy thrown off. Then Rock/Austin come face to face inside the ring and exchange blows, with Rock getting the upper hand, hitting the spinebuster leading to the People’s Elbow setup, before being taken out by Triple H. Rock disposes of the Game, and catches Angle coming in with a Rock Bottom, but Austin breaks up the count. Rock and Austin are trying to come up, Austin hits the Stunner on Rock, and tries desperately to crawl to the cover. Triple H is back in, hits a neckbreaker on Austin, and both guys are down. Meanwhile, Angle has crawled over to the Rock and gets the cover for the 1-2-3. 

I loved this match. Couple of things you could count with this kind of match. Six guys, so there's always action. This also means that people were going to be on top of the cell, and five of the six were, with Rock almost getting up there. Not a technical match by any means, but really fun and lots of creative stuff going on. ****


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Nice review, still love that match.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

They put guys like Miz, Striker, and Otunga on these Documentaries because of the professional look and speaking ability they have outside of the ring. It has gotten very old now though I'd like to see wrestler who are actually good talk in these doc's. Though Miz isn't that bad.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Excellent review iwatchwrestling. (Y)

Stone Cold's facial expression when Rikishi gets chokeslammed off of the cell is priceless. On par with his reaction when Bret Hart came out during the 1997 Royal Rumble match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

kofi/cesaro me ***1/2-3/4 fun match for once cole commentary helps out a match with enthusiasm about the match, Cesaro up body strength is legit out of this world and he doess his best to hide kofi's flaws


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Benjamin/Hardy/Super Crazy/Masters? I need to give that a look, sounds awesome. I probably saw it when it happened but I don't remember.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pierre McDunk said:


> Benjamin/Hardy/Super Crazy/Masters? I need to give that a look, sounds awesome. I probably saw it when it happened but I don't remember.


Lots of great action in 7 minutes. Definitely look it up.

And while I'm on the subject of Raw in 2006, it sucks to see how far Shelton fell by this time. He barely gets TV time now and at one point, they almost went with giving him a racist "I'm held down because I'm black" gimmick. Rated RKO forming is great, though. Their DX mocking was hilarious (Edge with that plastic nose :lol). Cena giving K-Fed an FU was cool too. I do find it shocking that Cena is still so much the same. Heels are built up just to get fed to him. (Umaga around this time, Ryback in present) Even though I don't hate him like others, I do think it's time to move on from his super-face act now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So, Evan (that's KingofKings' name, right? That's someone's name in here, right? Somebody? If not, then read 'Evan' as 'KingofKings'), you watched Cena matches until your eyes blew out of your head, yeah? Did you watch his TV run in 2007? I want to know what his TV run was like 2007. I mean I'm going to watch it eventually no matter what, but I'd kind of like to know what he has that year and how good it is, etc before I dive into it. IDK why I JUST DO. THNX.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena's TV Run in 2007?

It was okay. You were getting consistent TV matches every week with the likes of big guys such as Snitsky, Khali, & Umaga while at the same time you'd get shitty matches with the likes of Orton & Carlito sometimes as well. The main thing to look out for during Cena's 2007 run are the tags with Shawn Michaels wherein I felt HBK worked a more heelish style that was more or less a far cry from his cookie cutter melodramatic babyface schtick from time to time. There's matches with Johnny Nitro on ECW & Chris Benoit on Raw that are good also, but Cena's bread and butter during that time frame was the BIG BOYS.

If I were to go with any year of Cena TV matches it would be 2009 though. Quality with Big Show, Jack Swagger, Chris Jericho, HHH, HBK, and even a good TV match with EDGE when he was pretty uninspiring (I'm not a fan of Edge, most overrated of all time) as well. He gets deflated during the Orton program but from the time he comes back from injury in late 2008 to the Orton program he's AWESOME on TV. As in borderline YES matches nearly every damn week.

& It's Evan .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

2006 was interesting. I love DX, but they were a shell of themselves that year. the comedy stuff was good, but not such great matches, save for the HIAC. Can probably say the same for 2009 though, though their comedy stuff then was just shitty. As unfortunate as Triple H's injury was, it worked out well for Shawn, as he went on to feud with Rated RKO by himself and have the nice street fight with Edge, then feuded with Cena as well all know. 

I am going to watch DX vs the McMahons/Big Show inside HIAC once I get to it. On that note, going to watch HBK/HHH inside HIAC from Bad Blood 2004. I know most folks around here don't care for it, but its one of the ones I haven't seen it a bit, so it's getting watched.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena's TV Run in 2007?
> 
> It was okay. You were getting consistent TV matches every week with the likes of big guys such as Snitsky, Khali, & Umaga while at the same time you'd get shitty matches with the likes of Orton & Carlito sometimes as well. The main thing to look out for during Cena's 2007 run are the tags with Shawn Michaels wherein I felt HBK worked a more heelish style that was more or less a far cry from his cookie cutter melodramatic babyface schtick from time to time. There's matches with Johnny Nitro on ECW & Chris Benoit on Raw that are good also, but Cena's bread and butter during that time frame was the BIG BOYS.
> 
> ...


I don't know why the Snitsky match got me most excited out of everything you wrote, but it did. And yeah I MUCH prefer Cena against monster-ish guys than in any other role. Speaking of which, he and Ryback worked a house show tables match in April and it was taken off of youtube. URGH.

Pffft I knew it was Evan. Allllll along. Yep. All along.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gonna give john boy/ heartbreak from mania 23 a watch in a few. I heard some good reviews about it, I started watching it once and wasn't that impressed, loved their London match though,


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> It was okay. You were getting consistent TV matches every week with the likes of big guys such as Snitsky, Khali, & Umaga while at the same time *you'd get shitty matches with the likes of Orton* & Carlito sometimes as well.


Didn't they only have two matches on TV that year? The first one from February was pretty good I thought whereas the second barely got started before Khali came out. Unless you're thinking about their Unforgiven match which is a whole another story.

--------------------

About to watch Rey vs Chavo I Quit, any thoughts on this? (YEAH probably loves it as he's Chavo's lone defender here )


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Some Favorite Harley Race matches?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Lots of great action in 7 minutes. Definitely look it up.
> 
> And while I'm on the subject of Raw in 2006, it sucks to see how far Shelton fell by this time. He barely gets TV time now and at one point, they almost went with giving him a racist "I'm held down because I'm black" gimmick. Rated RKO forming is great, though. Their DX mocking was hilarious (Edge with that plastic nose :lol). Cena giving K-Fed an FU was cool too. I do find it shocking that Cena is still so much the same. Heels are built up just to get fed to him. (Umaga around this time, Ryback in present) Even though I don't hate him like others, I do think it's time to move on from his super-face act now.


(Y)

It killed me to see Shelton so misued in 2006 after how awesome he was all the years before that. 

Rated RKO is awesome, imo. I remember loving them at the time.

And if I recall, that Rey/Chavo match is actually pretty good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished it. Pretty good match with Chavo's work on Rey's knee and Rey selling it perfectly. Didn't quite have the same feeling as longer matches that have taken place on PPV but good stuff nonetheless. ★★★½.

And big lol @ WWE recycling the storyline a year later with a SummerSlam and "I Quit" match again. Where's the creativity at?

EDIT: Undertaker squashed Helms pretty fast and now it's main event time with Batista vs Booker. What the fuck, did they seriously waste 10 minutes on a divas dance off but couldn't find anywhere to put Chris Benoit in it other than a stupid dark match? fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Have you seen it, Cody? If so, thoughts? I plan on watching tonight.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/17753234-post706.html

Thoughts in a nut shell.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao I was just typing up my reaction to the match and it basically mirrors your thoughts. Cesaro was the fucking man in that match, seriously. He pulled out some stuff that I've never seen before. That superplex was awesome. The guy needs a push, and fast.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched cena/hbk mania 23 a high ****1/2, i love love love love that match, seriously the best wwe title match ever. Great match from shawn dickish acts to the knife chops ti the pile driver on the steps. The finsih is anti climatic with the stf but its what it is.
EDIT: Best title match at MANIA


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Anybody got a list of great Tajiri matches? I watched that quick little match he had with Benoit a few pages back, and then watched some match he had with Mysterio on Smackdown! for the Cruiserweight title. It was some good stuff, and I really want to check out what he's done, seeing as he's a wrestler I've really neglected up until now.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> just watched cena/hbk mania 23 a high ****1/2, i love love love love that match, seriously the best wwe title match ever. Great match from shawn dickish acts to the knife chops ti the pile driver on the steps. The finsih is anti climatic with the stf but its what it is.


it seems this match is either loved or hated on here. I really LOVE it! Don't know if it's the GOAT wwe title match, but it's up there. That piledriver on the steps was insane.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So wait, did ANYBODY see the Cena/Ryback tables match, and if so is it worth taking a gander at?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> just watched cena/hbk mania 23 a high ****1/2, i love love love love that match, seriously the best wwe title match ever. Great match from shawn dickish acts to the knife chops ti the pile driver on the steps. The finsih is anti climatic with the stf but its what it is.


Love that match too. Yeah, same lame finish from the year before. :StephenA2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@TLK and xdoomsayersx yea I really loved that match I beleive hbk/cena is right behind cena/punk for cena in terms of in ring quality matches. Im going to watch macho/naitch later tonite to back up my claim for best wwe championship match at MANIA. I for to put that in my first post


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Ruiner87 said:


> Anybody got a list of great Tajiri matches? I watched that quick little match he had with Benoit a few pages back, and then watched some match he had with Mysterio on Smackdown! for the Cruiserweight title. It was some good stuff, and I really want to check out what he's done, seeing as he's a wrestler I've really neglected up until now.


Tajiri is one of the most underrated wrestlers around...

Id say start with old ecw: 

Any match Vs Super Crazy
Any of the three way dances vs Guido vs Crazy 
Any of the tag matches w/ Mikey Whipreck

Really you can't go wrong..


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ruiner87 said:


> Anybody got a list of great Tajiri matches? I watched that quick little match he had with Benoit a few pages back, and then watched some match he had with Mysterio on Smackdown! for the Cruiserweight title. It was some good stuff, and I really want to check out what he's done, seeing as he's a wrestler I've really neglected up until now.


Check out Tajiri vs Corino's ECW Hardcore Heaven match. Brutal stuff. Corino's in-ring promo pre-match is another reason to watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao I was just typing up my reaction to the match and it basically mirrors your thoughts. Cesaro was the fucking man in that match, seriously. He pulled out some stuff that I've never seen before. That superplex was awesome. The guy needs a push, and fast.


It's amazing the work he puts in to try and make something interesting with one of the least interesting "wrestlers" around. He's more than a great indie talent who's in the WWE. He's a great talent who proves his worth - period.

I feel the urge to watch his match vs Del Rio on RAW again. It was good. No major drama thanks to the fans being dull & via the obvious Del Rio win, but hey, can't fight quality from quality workers you know.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Top 100 John Cena Matches Of All Time (40-26) *


40. 










Degeneration X vs Jerishow vs The Undertaker & John Cena (RAW 11/9/09) : **** 3/4*


39.










John Cena vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 8/5/03) : **** 3/4*


38.










WWE Championship (Last Man Standing) John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio(c) (Vengeance 2011) : **** 3/4*


37.










John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (RAW 1/26/09) : **** 3/4*


36.










John Cena vs CM Punk (RAW 1/17/11) : **** 3/4*


35.










John Cena vs Kurt Angle (No Mercy 2003) : **** 3/4*


34.










WWE Championship - John Cena vs Edge(c) (Summerslam 2006) : **** 3/4*


33.










John Cena vs Wade Barrett (Hell in a Cell 2010) : **** 3/4*


32.










World Heavyweight Championship - John Cena(c) vs Chris Jericho (Armageddon 2008) : **** 3/4*


31.










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Chris Jericho (Summerslam 2005) : **** 3/4*


30.










John Cena vs The Big Show (Smackdown 2/17/09) : **** 3/4*


29.










John Cena vs Triple H (RAW 10/12/09) : **** 3/4*


28.










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) vs Bobby Lashley (Great American Bash 2007) : ******


27.










WWE Championship (Elimination Chamber) - John Cena(c) vs Mike Knox vs Chris Jericho vs Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane (No Way Out 2009) : ******


26.










John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (RAW 1/12/2009) : ******





​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Trips carbon copy match over Cena vs Show. Noooooooo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a sucker for the Trips-Cena series, what can I say .

We're in the area that everything from 50 upwards is PRIMO shit, but the real CLASSICS (what I'd define as a classic anyways) really starts to kick in around number 14. We're just in REALLY FUCKING GREAT WATCH NOW matches. I HAVE A BOTTOM 10 JOHN CENA MATCHES EVER LIST MADE that I'm going to post tomorrow maybe, I'm going to do a little write up for it anyways, TWAS too lazy to do one for this edition :lol.

My work ethic when it comes to everything is terrible.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ really like those cena matches with the dx boy each on raw


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena definitely gave Barrett his best match. Not even close.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ :bryan says hello


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm a sucker for the Trips-Cena series, what can I say .
> 
> We're in the area that everything from 50 upwards is PRIMO shit, but the real CLASSICS (what I'd define as a classic anyways) really starts to kick in around number 14. We're just in REALLY FUCKING GREAT WATCH NOW matches. I HAVE A BOTTOM 10 JOHN CENA MATCHES EVER LIST MADE that I'm going to post tomorrow maybe, I'm going to do a little write up for it anyways, TWAS too lazy to do one for this edition :lol.
> 
> My work ethic when it comes to everything is terrible.


Was about to ask for you to post the bottom ten Cena matches right now, till you said you may post 'em tomorrow. Wonder if crappy no effort TV matches will fill the list or matches only with meaning that ended up sucking will. Hoping the latter b/c we all know Cena squashing David Otunga & Kenzo Suzuki sucked. :hayley3

You're making me want to do a list right now. Or something similar to the way I wrote about the 2010 year for Superstars. I have about 15 more Superstars from 2011 to go. If I decide to cram those maybe I can pump something out very late tonight. Of course, I to am suffering from that lazy work ethic. More on the watching aspect _(which should be the more fun part, RIGHT?)_ than the writing. I love to type up a bunch of drivel when I'm motivated. Get my opinions out there and such. It's why I post after all 8*D



redskins25 said:


> ^^ :bryan says hello


You are correct, sir.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ :bryan says hello




Which Bryan/Barrett match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

summerslam 11


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl...de-barrett-vs-daniel-bryan_sport#.UYMaObWR98E

Great match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I'm a sucker for the Trips-Cena series, what can I say .
> 
> We're in the area that everything from 50 upwards is PRIMO shit, but the real CLASSICS (what I'd define as a classic anyways) really starts to kick in around number 14. We're just in REALLY FUCKING GREAT WATCH NOW matches. I HAVE A BOTTOM 10 JOHN CENA MATCHES EVER LIST MADE that I'm going to post tomorrow maybe, I'm going to do a little write up for it anyways, TWAS too lazy to do one for this edition :lol.
> 
> My work ethic when it comes to everything is terrible.


Can't do a bottom 10 without having watched his entire 04. :cena3

Good work once again with the list. Big fan of some of the matches such as the triple threat tag from MSG, the Undertaker match, SummerSlam 05 with Jericho and the Lashley match.

Looking forward to see the rest of it! 

PS: For the second time in a row, the list ends with a screenshot of Cena in a Crossface!


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Disagree. They made Barrett look like an actual threat when he was facing cena @HIAC 2010. When he kicked out of the AA I was in shock.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SS11 was a great match indeed and is rightfully wade's best in the e


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best is opinion varied. Point being here is they're both Wade's top performances/matches while in the WWE. Isn't much of a margin of difference in quality between the two b/c they're both so great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bout to watch macho/flair to see how it ranks in best wwe champ matches at mania


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

what can i expect from the ppvs from wcw in 1991-1993?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of the best.

I know Cal disagrees. I think. That bastard.

EDIT ~ Expect a mix of meh & greatness from the '91 shows, Kenny. '92 for the majority was excellent. Always slate that year as my favorite. '93 was more good than bad upon memory too. Flair vs Vader at the very end. Ends on one of the highest notes possible. (of course I love myself early 90's WCW. Perhaps more than most.)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i'll start watching soon :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™;17775114 said:


> Some Favorite Harley Race matches?


Limited viewing on his U.S. stuff, but here's a couple All Japan matches:

vs. Giant Baba (12/9/75)
vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 2/3 Falls (6/11/77)



Ruiner87 said:


> Anybody got a list of great Tajiri matches? I watched that quick little match he had with Benoit a few pages back, and then watched some match he had with Mysterio on Smackdown! for the Cruiserweight title. It was some good stuff, and I really want to check out what he's done, seeing as he's a wrestler I've really neglected up until now.


Surprised Cody didn't respond to this:

vs. Rey Mysterio (No Mercy '03)
vs. X-Pac (Summerslam '01)
vs. Steve Corino (Hardcore Heaven 2000)

Just off the top of my head. Also, did ATF steal my Tajiri Youtube gimmick? 



King Kenny said:


> what can i expect from the ppvs from wcw in 1991-1993?


WAR GAMES


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well WAR GAMES is a given. I could have gotten specific for Kenny if he wanted.  DANGEROUS ALLIANCE.

Didn't even see the Tajiri question. Every & all matches vs Super Crazy. Including the always fun three way dances with Little Guido involved. Tajiri vs Regal from Survivor Series '01 is one bossy sub-3 minute match too. Yes, only three minutes sadly. Regal is bloodied by the end of it at least. :hb

Oh, and don't sleep on his work from Japan. Specifically recent work. vs Finlay from SMASH 24 (last year) was one of the most stellar. It's truly brilliant. Almost certain Tajiri vs Rhino happened in ECW and it kind of ruled everything too. It did in WWF when only five minutes.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I'm about to watch the whole best of 5 series between Booker T and Cena in '04. I remember their Summerslam 2004 match being the best match out of the series. *


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The whole series is complete garbage.

Stay away.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> The whole series is complete garbage.
> 
> Stay away.


:clap

He's correct. If SummerSlam match is the best by your memory, well that is the first sign you know you should avoid em. Cena and Booker had zero chemistry.

I'd recommend Booker's series vs Benoit - WCW or WWE & Cena vs someone like Jericho or Punk to get your fill of a series involving those two.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Best PPV of 1998?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Best PPV of 1998?




I personally liked KOTR 98. I marked the fuck out when Kane won the title.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Has to be WrestleMania.

I have fun with SummerSlam too & then Over The Edge has the MOTY on it in Austin vs Dude Love.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Best PPV of 1998?


Over The Edge has Austin/Foley.

Survivor Series is hell a lotta fun with the brilliant turn of The Rock.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> :clap
> 
> He's correct. If SummerSlam match is the best by your memory, well that is the first sign you know you should avoid em. Cena and Booker had zero chemistry.
> 
> I'd recommend Booker's series vs Benoit - WCW or WWE & Cena vs someone like Jericho or Punk to get your fill of a series involving those two.


*Good point. I've been on Booker T kick lately. I've loved all his matches with Benoit (both in WCW and WWE) and Harlem Heat stuff against the Steiners. Then he has stinkers with Cena and others. I'm trying to get a better picture on Booker being "over"/"under" rated in-ring wise. I'm planning to avoid his King Booker stuff though.*


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Yeah probably King Of The Ring. Either that or Wrestlemania 14.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's Wrestlemania by a considerable margin for me.

98 & especially 99 had some fucking TERRIBLE shows quality wise.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Good point. I've been on Booker T kick lately. I've loved all his matches with Benoit (both in WCW and WWE) and Harlem Heat stuff against the Steiners. Then he has stinkers with Cena and others. I'm trying to get a better picture on Booker being "over"/"under" rated in-ring wise. I'm planning to avoid his King Booker stuff though.*


I'd take most King Booker stuff over Harlem Heat. Despite you mentioning their best opponents - which I have to say were the Steiners. Outside of working vs them, the tag work was mostly terrible for my money. I say give Booker's 2003 a watch. He was rolling pretty well that year. As far as my analysis on him goes: I wouldn't claim him overrated or underrated. He falls somewhere in-between. Capable of having a good match & having a bad all the same.

---------

King of The Ring '98 isn't too special outside of the double main event honestly. That's pretty standard for A LOT of WWF PPVs in the 90's, however. I want to say Owen vs X-Pac is worth watching too. Remember zero from it.


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Best WWF ppv of 98: 

KOTR 98 or Mania 

Best overall Wrestling PPV of 98:

ECW heat wave 98


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

macho/flair **** good match and great build ( I loved the Elizabeth was with flair and the taboid things lol) match doesn't hold up as well as in the past but still good. saying that cena/hbk blow its out of the water in the wwe c mania matches talk


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Macho vs Flair came in at number 8 on my 'Top 50 Matches in Wrestlemania History' list that I did on here leading u to Wrestlemania XXIX and it has stayed in tact throughout XXIX as well. Fantastic match with a fantastic story, probably the greatest feel good moment in Savage's career for me (yes, even greater than VII, he won the title for fuck sakes!)...................

Although John Boy vs Shawn Boy was #6 on my list and the GOAT WM WWE Title Match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I loved the story as well may bump it up for to ****1/4 because of the feel good moment for macho ( imo I still have VII above this tho).I loved cena/hbk and think it is the best wwe title match in mania history.

EDIT: Im a huge flair guy and I want him to have his moment as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho wins for me. Was going to say it will be either Hogan vs Warrior, Savage vs Flair, or Cena vs Michaels; then I got to WrestleMania 28. Done deal.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Anyone watching Booker T stuff should find all the match where he tagged with Goldust. The Jericho/Christian matches in particular are awesome.


I'm having a not-so-good day and I need Mike Enos to cheer me up. I will Yeah1993 him again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

God dammit. And I watched Booker & Goldust vs Jericho & Christian from No Mercy '02 today.

I feel low.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watch some Steiner promos like I'm doing at the moment.

ALWAYS makes the day better.

YOU GOTTA TWENTY FIVE PERCENT CHANCE AT BEAT ME.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

or some :flair3 promos, You honest cannot not smile while listen to him but you listen to every single word and love it. he GOAT promo talker Idc rock marks or stone cold marks say


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

decided to go with an old favorite atm.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Old man Flair was fucking fantastic.

The match w/ Big Show, the TLC match against Edge, the I Quit against Foley, the pair of HHH matches ....... There's also a whole binch of gems in there from TV and PPV such as the Unforgiven 2004 opener which was the clear cut MOTN. He had a few matches with Regal that I THINK were great as well, not sure.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I often refer the Flair/Show ECW match, as one of The Giant's best. AWESOME MATCH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Regal vs Flair happened on the RAW where Kane married Lita iirc. Oooooh I should scope that out right now. Love the Unforgiven '04 tag. Show only went down following that match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Enos V.2 I will not check for grammar errors and shit.

Mike Enos v. Lex Luger (Nitro the Night After World War 3 some year who cares MIKE ENOS!)
So Luger has an unfair rep. Yes, there were times where he wasn't terribly good. SO WHAT? Ric Flair and Barry Windham at one point or another have not been terribly good yet it doesn't diminish how good they were at their peak. Luger was really fucking good in his peak and has a nice catalogue of good/great matches. I mean yeah, this isn't his peak, but it was 1998/1999 and he still didn't suck. He didn't do anything particularly stand out, but was, say, HHH in 2009 really better than Luger was here? Was Ric Flair in 2003 really better than Luger was here? Was Chris Jericho in 2010 really better than Luger was here? Those are three guys that get all-time great talk in one circle or another and the same people who'll say they are all-time greats are the same people that will bag Luger. I sure as hell don't think Lex Luger in an all-timer, but he is so much better than some who are called all-timers and I don't remember a time in Luger's career where he was awful like people claim he was. Luger rant aside- this was still mostly Mike Enos. Enos doesn't have the backlash so there was no reason to rant about him, but, yeah, it's 1998 or 1999 or whatever and late 90s Mike Enos was pretty obviously going to outwork late 90s Luger. I said Luger didn't do anything truly stand-out and I meant it (thought he found some weirdly cool looking ways to fall down), but 'not stand-out' isn't 'bad', and 'not stand-out' can be covered by Mike Enos selling in neat bumping ways. I really like Enos' bumps on clothesline and shit. You know those bumps dudes take where they fall and kind of jerk up STRAIGHT after falling down? Almost like a nip up but completely failed and they tilt to their side or something? Yeah, Enos takes those bumps. He does a cool piledriver here that isn't the badass one he unleashed on Benoit, but looked painful and Luger touched the top of his head after it (which, for whatever reason, not many wrestlers seem to do after a piledriver and IDK why). Cool finish run as Enos gets to kick out a big move or two.

Mike Enos v. Mr. Wallstreet (Nitro, 12/96 I guess)
I found this when first watching the bunch o' Mike Enos and was going to watch it. I then remembered Mr. Wallstreet was Mike Rotunda and turned off the video. Well I didn't miss anything. DiBiase comes out and Enos wonders whether Ted's interested in signing him for the nWo, and then Wallstreet picks up the win while he's distracted. We get what LOOKED like a great leg drop by Mike Enos, but the camera barely gets to show it. 

Mike Enos v. Evan Karagias (Nitro)
Man Karagias throws the laziest shittiest corner punches of all time. It looked like white Kofi Kingston. This could have been better; Enos wastes too much time yelling at the crowd and just looking around (though his yells of 'ENOS' responding the crowd saying 'we want Sid' were pretty super). Basically a squash that had an awesome start of Evan going to Enos' leg and then doing an over-the-top-rope crossbody where Enos still sells the leg afterward. I wish this had more Karagias offense like that (and not his shitty ass corner punches) because they could have made for great cut-off comeback thingys. ICP and Vampiro interfere in this and then...whatever. I hate all three of them.

Mike Enos v. Dallas Page (Nitro the Night After Slim Jim's Halloween Havoc 199X)
DDP! I was deciding what to watch on Google videos page and then saw DDP and I was like 'OH! OH!' DDP hits a HARD slap to Enos and Enos kind of goes for a collar/elbow tie or something fiercely and then slaps him back (and it makes, like, no noise whatsoever). I was kind of disappointed by Enos playing babyface because this has the layout of an Enos heel match. He gets to work over DDP and it's enjoyable despite him being distracted by the random Outsiders appearance in the crowd. I was totally right about his leg-drop being great, btw. His guard-rail bumping is as fun to watch as his clothesline bumping also, and his bumps actually kind of work as a face. He's a heel offense guy, though. The match ends with a really spot of DDP hooking the turnbuckle with his boots while in a powerslam and then using the diamond cutter.

Mike Enos v. Scotty Riggs (1997 or something)
Fun couple of minutes. I've never thought Riggs was anything more than poo but he certainly looked like more than poo in this. I thought he was going to fuck up an Irish whip, but as it turns out he was just swinging Enos around to gain more momentum. Enos goes flying over the top rope, almost like that signature over-top-rope-Irish-whip bump that HHH takes. Enos takes a back-body drop bump outside and half of his body lands on concrete. Owey. Riggs wins with a VERY abrupt forearm. It was basically his comeback and he just kind of.......wins. It'd be like Rey Mysterio winning the run-ropes crossbody right before the 619.

Mike Enos v. Eddy Guerrero (WCWSN 23BC)
So Eddie Guerrero wasn't Eddie Fucking Guerrero until mid-1997 or so, but in this role he was basically the best possible Bard Armstrong in history and he had exceptionally good execution of everything he did. He's also the kind of guy you want selling Mike Enos offense. He really put over the moves, saying 'Oh God' and making those cringy Eddie Guerrero faces you know. He even sold Robert Parker offense like a CHAMP. Enos decides to return the favour and flip out of control after a Guerrero drop-kick and a hurricanrana. This doesn't last too long which is a shame since it was building into something really cool.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Try and find Finlay vs Enos from 5/25/98. Well worth your time for this project. Naturally.

I got it on DVD or else I'd give you the link for it. Oh, and I think Enos does that bomb on the knee spot in this match too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Forgive me for asking, but who the fuck is Mike Enos??? 

Love the reviews though obviously.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You may know him as one of The Beverly Brothers. Idk which one. haha

William Regal & Mike Enos vs. Scott Norton & Osamu Kido

From New Japan. Doubt it's online anywhere, but definitely worth your time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

one of those quality enhancement talents during the late 90's for WCW. In '96 he seemed like he had a solid career path going for him while with Col. Rob Parker & teaming with Dick Slater.

oh and I watched Flair vs Goldberg from '99 atm. It's fun mostly when Goldberg gets on the offense. Schmoz ending was bleh. When doesn't that happen from WCW though? Goldberg is the man.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> vs. Rey Mysterio (No Mercy '03)
> vs. X-Pac (Summerslam '01)
> vs. Steve Corino (Hardcore Heaven 2000)


I actually have No Mercy 2003 sitting around somewhere. All I remember about it is Brock/Taker being a complete disappointment compared to the year previous. Will have to give it a watch for Cena/Angle and this match.



Yeah1993 said:


> Anyone watching Booker T stuff should find all the match where he tagged with Goldust. The Jericho/Christian matches in particular are awesome.
> 
> 
> I'm having a not-so-good day and I need Mike Enos to cheer me up. I will Yeah1993 him again.


Totally agree with this, especially since I made mention of No Mercy. The tag at NM02 featuring BookDust is the only good thing from RAW on that show.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Ruiner87 said:


> I actually have No Mercy 2003 sitting around somewhere. All I remember about it is Brock/Taker being a complete disappointment compared to the year previous. Will have to give it a watch for Cena/Angle and this match.


*I rememeber it being a really average PPV with Cena vs. Angle as the cream of the card and the cruiserweight match was good. 

That Biker Chain match went about 10 minutes too long. The I-Quit match....well no comment.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vince vs Steph is excellent.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Continuing my Hell in a Cell match watching with Triple H vs Shawn Michaels at Bad Blood 2004. Everyone can read the review if they want. I didn't go the Yeah1993 route this time, since this was a super serious match, and there wasn't really an opportunity to go that direction. 

The short of it is that I think this match is pretty good. They wanted to end the rivalry here, and the two guys went over 45 minutes basically trying to kill each other. I didn't really feel like it dragged on, though it is a long match. There were a about two points where I though "okay, it's almost over", but there was still a lot of time left. I'll give ***1/2 to this one. 



Spoiler: HHH/HBK Full Review



Triple H vs Shawn Michaels – Bad Blood 2004
The purpose of this match was to end the Triple H/Shawn Michaels feud that had basically been going for the better part of two years. Crowd was kind of split before the match started, which is surprising since Trips was in the midst of his “really hated” time. Triple H donned his white boots for this one, which I can’t say I’m a fan of, but here we go.

The beginning is mostly just both guys wanting to beat each other up. Game is busting open after one introduction to the cell. Thought it might take more than that, but I guess if you want to show how demonic and dangerous the cell is, you blade early on. Shawn takes advantage of this, with strikes and boots to the cut on Triple H’s forehead. 

Triple H hits a couple of hard Irish whips, which Shawn sells masterfully, and we all know about Shawn’s back injury, and his back became a target for many matches, and he sells it brilliantly each time. Triple H does a callback to Shawn/Taker in 1997 by taking turns ramming Shawn back first into the cell, then the ring post, and back and forth. That sidewalk slam on the chair is pretty devastating, same with the backbreaker. Game starts to show frustration as HBK kicks out of several consecutive pin attempts. 

Shawn, out of desperation, counters an abdominal stretch attempt into a hip toss over the ropes to by some time, and takes advantage as Triple H gets back in, and then foils a Pedigree attempt with a low blow that was “deep down in south Texas” as JR would say. Triple H does the Flair flop out of the corner following an Irish whip into a clothesline. 

On the outside, as Shawn has gained a temporary advantage, he goes for what has become his signature piledriver on the steps, and Triple H counters into a backdrop onto the floor, which looks super-painful. More work on the back of HBK with a chair, and Triple H brings in the steel steps, and though Shawn foils the Game’s first attempt, following a failed Sweet Music Chin music attempt, the Game drills Shawn in the chops with the steps, thus busting HBK wide open. Another shot with the steps show Shawn wearing the “proverbial crimson mask”. 

The Game is firmly in control, taking the fight to the outside and re-introducing Shawn to the cell and raking his face along the cage walls, and the steps. Following a devastating Double A spinebuster, Shawn tries to be back in it, following a counter to the sleeper. HBK then counters the pedigree into a DDT, laying both men out. Shawn grabs hold of the chair and swings for the fences, and the Game is really busted open now, and he hits another chair shot. 

A facebuster sends Shawn out of the ring, but he immediately reaches under the ring and pulls out a ladder, and this sadistic smile comes across his face, and he immediately goes back into control, with the ladder as his accomplice. After Michaels uses the ladder as a lawn dart, and Irish whips the Game into the ladder a few times, the third time Triple H does his custom jump-over-the-top-rope. After another failed Pedigree attempt is countered into a catapult in the ladder, HBK misses a flying elbow attempt and kicks out at 2. 

Good Lord, we’re passed the 30 minute mark and Triple H pulls out the table. Shawn is still reeling from being thrown shoulder-first into the ring post. This sets up probably the biggest spot in the match (at least to this point) with Shawn coming off the top of the ladder and hitting the elbow drop on Triple H, who has been set up on the table. 

Michaels then goes for Sweet Chin Music, which Triple H counters with a low blow, and finally sticks the Pedigree, which Shawn kicks out of. Both guys use each other to stand up, and Shawn breaks off and nails the super kick, and both guys are down. Shawn takes a ton of time to crawl to the cover, and gets the arm over and Triple H kicks out. JR says it best here, “My God, how much more can these two men take?” Both men are back up, and Triple H goes back downstairs, hits a second Pedigree, and both men are down again. After what feels like several minutes of both guys not even moving, the Game hits a third Pedigree, ending this match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I won't call it good, yet I don't loathe it either. It's long & drawn out. They were kind of intending to go that route as unusual as it sounds. I understand the displeasure about it. Don't think I'll ever watch it again myself. All the times I have before is enough. Can occupy my time with their Taboo Tuesday match instead.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Try and find Finlay vs Enos from 5/25/98. Well worth your time for this project. Naturally.


Finlay v. Enos? AWESOOOOOOME :mark:



Jack Evans 187 said:


> William Regal & Mike Enos vs. Scott Norton & Osamu Kido
> 
> From New Japan. Doubt it's online anywhere, but definitely worth your time.


Enos and Regal!?!?!?! AWESOOOOOOOOOOOOOME :mark: :mark: :mark:

I read Osamu Kido as Osamu Nishimura which would have been ****3/4, but I'll take a Regal and Enos team v. whoever.



Ruiner87 said:


> Totally agree with this, especially since I made mention of No Mercy. The tag at NM02 featuring BookDust is the only good thing from RAW on that show.


Enos and...wait nvm. 

I think that's actually my third favourite match that those two teams had. They had one around August (I think) which is as good or better, and one in December that I remember being the one I liked the most. It's probably Raw MOTY for 02 as well unless I'm forgetting something. Which I'm pretty sure I am. What am I forgetting? I haven't seen Guerrero/RVD or Taker/Hardy recently enough, but other than that, are there other Raw MOTYC from 2002? I doubt I'd like that TLC with Kane going solo a bunch, but I'd be willing to watch again.

Hey, all three of those are ladder matches........neat.

EDIT - Goldberg/Flair sounds like a bucket of fun. Need'a watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tag match has Eddie vs RVD ladder match beat. That one isn't too high on my list. Preferred their standard matches over it. 

Taker vs Hardy on the other hand. Hell yes. Isn't Bubba's match vs Trips really good too or nah b/c Trips is bleh?

I'm a mark for TLC IV admittedly. It's chaotic. I mark for chaos in my wrestling.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I need to watch Trip v. Bubba. I saw it while Yeah1993-ing like three different guys but the video goes over a dozen minutes. I barely like watching videos that go for eight minutes. I'd be kinda SHOCKED if it was better than the best Booker/Goldust tag tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldberg vs Flair runs 14 minutes chapter wise. If you skip the crap (aka Hogan and Nash being fools) it'll be more within your preferred timeframe.

Dunno if Bubba vs Trips will beat it. All I'm curious is if it holds up. Haven't seen it since you know, like it aired. I was 12 back then. Need to refresh myself & the knowledge that Bubba was the man


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Are we allowed to include the Elimination Chamber as our RAW MOTY candidate for 2002? Because that was more entertaining than anything else from RAW in 2002, as far as I'm concerned. Mind you, I haven't seen Hardy/Taker since it aired, so my opinion might not be worth much. I try to forget about a lot of RAW stuff around the time of HHH's super reign.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I meant Raw MOTY as in aired on Raw, like TV MOTY but....well, only Raw. I like 3 or 4 of the Booker/Goldust v. Christian/Jericho matches more than the Chamber anyway even if it was included tbh. 

It feels like there's a match widely regarded ad the best Raw match of 02 and I just can't remember it.


I want to watch more Bubba in general. I dug the Bully Ray stuff I saw from last year a hell of a lot and I know he has to have more stuff like that.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Hardy Ladder Match OR TLC IV? @ Yeah.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> I meant Raw MOTY as in aired on Raw, like TV MOTY but....well, only Raw. I like 3 or 4 of the Booker/Goldust v. Christian/Jericho matches more than the Chamber anyway even if it was included tbh.


Ah, fair enough. Like I said, I tried to repress most of my memories of RAW after the brand split.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Some ratings/quick reviews for the Tajiri stuff that I watched today.

*Tajiri vs. Steve Corino, Hardcore Heaven 2000*

This was neat. Tajiri hits a Brainbuster on the runway that looks, and sounds, totally brutal. Corino does a sick blade job. Some neat table spots, Corino gets some nice looking offense in after sending Tajiri through said table. Tajiri begins to hit Corino with a flurry towards the end of the match and his punches look like shit, although the kicks are _amazing_. Tajiri sends Corino through the table for the win. Very nice match, and an example of how a good blade job can make a match look a lot more brutal than it really is. *****

*Tajiri vs. Rey Mysterio, Smackdown! 5th of September, 2003*

That date might be wrong. Match opens with a quick 40 seconds from both guys where they go for some quick strikes, holds and pinfalls. They have a standoff and shake hands afterwards - it's nice. Tajiri hits a nice kick as Mysterio goes up for a Springboard. It's brutal, and I love it. Tajiri does some nice arm work, and they roll around on the mat a bit. There's an awesome spot where Mysterio goes for a springboard splash, and Tajiri nails him with a kick to the face, and then a Michinoku Driver. Mysterio wins by going for a Hurricanrana off the top rope and pinning Tajiri. I liked it a lot. ****1/2*

*Tajiri vs. Super Crazy vs. Little Guido, Three Way Dance, 3rd of March, 2000*

I liked it, but it was one of those matches where people just do moves, and then I forget what happened by the end of it. Only thing that really stuck out was Super Crazy missing a Moonsault to the outside, and Tajiri kicking him in the face. ***3/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Need to watch those ladder DVD Sets lol, havnt seen TLC IV or donkey's years, dont remember fuck all about it lol, Taker/Hardy though seen a fair few times, always love it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Tag match has Eddie vs RVD ladder match beat. That one isn't too high on my list. Preferred their standard matches over it.
> 
> Taker vs Hardy on the other hand. Hell yes. *Isn't Bubba's match vs Trips really good too or nah b/c Trips is bleh?*
> 
> I'm a mark for TLC IV admittedly. It's chaotic. I mark for chaos in my wrestling.


Oh hell yes it is. They displayed a lot of chemistry and it was Bubba's 1st showcase as a really good singles wrestler. One of the few very good singles match for Haitch in '02/'03.

Imma go watch Ryback/Bryan and Ambrose/Kane now :mark:

EDIT: Not sure if I watched the full matches since I checked the international version of Smackdown, but:

- Ryback/Bryan: ***1/4. Bryan essentially brought Ryback into his best singles match yet. Big surprise. Though he had to bump left from right to do so. Nice selling of the leg by Ryback, and DEM POWERBOMBS at the end of the match really made THE RYBACK look a vicious son of a bitch while Bryan still looked strong at fighting back with kicks. Pretty good stuff.

- Ambrose/Kane: ***1/2. Awesome stuff. The pre-match promo by Kane was pretty damn sweet, and so was the beatdown that he gave to Rollins and Reigns before the match started. Reminded me a lot of old Attitude Kane, the unstoppable beast whose brother Undertaker needed 3 Tombstones to finish off at WM 14 and STILL couldn't get him down for good. The match itself had a very nice flow and pace, and some terrific psychology as Ambrose was sistematically targeting Kane's leg from the get go. There were some cool counters, such as Kane turning Ambrose's DDT into a Chokeslam, and when Ambrose hit a Legbreaker off a Bodyscissors on the corner. The aftermath was awesome too, and once again really resembled me of old Kane. Oh, and Ambrose's Headlock Driver finisher looks cool.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Some of the matches i watched from *WWE: The Best of In Your House *

Bret Hart vs. Hakushi - ***3/4

Jeff Jarrett vs. Shawn Michaels - ****1/4

Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog - ***1/2

Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel - ****

Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind - ****1/2

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - ***3/4

The Undertaker vs. Mankind (Buried Alive Match) - ****

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader vs. The Undertaker - ****1/2

10-Man Tag Team Match
The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & The Legion of Doom - ****1/4

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Ground Zero) - ****

Stone Cold Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane - ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even though i own all the IYH PPV's, i may still get that 'Best Of' when it goes cheap for convenience, thx for the ratings, need to rewatch a few myself.

My last likely SV order arrived today, sad day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao I just wrote a post about Cesaro/Kofi and how it was a really good match... and my internet died the moment I clicked the post button. MY PC WON'T ALLOW ME TO PRAISE A KOFI MATCH!

Though it might as well not have been a Kofi match. Guy was literally non existent in it. Cesaro could have been wrestling a crash test dummy and got the same quality out of it. Match was ALL Cesaro. Ever need an example of a full on carry job by one wrestler in a match? Point to this from now on .


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

What are you guys thoughts on the Survivor Series 2011 PPV from a few years ago?

Personally, I thought this was a fun card and fun night overall. I remember how hype this forum was over the event the night of, despite the shit build.

Crowd was intense and the NYC area always provides that.

Ryder didn't have a match but boy was he over that night. He had hit his peak here. The SS tag tradition returned, the WWE Championship bout was solid and was the start of Punk's 434 day reign. Good moment for Punk fans indeed. Main Event was a fun bout and it was Rock's best individual performance in the ring by far despite the time he put into that match. I still think he would have did fine with more time, as he was much smaller which helped and was legit putting in proper ring training months prior to competing that night. Where as the matches after, he hasn't really had the chance to do that and was working with increased size. He hasn't look better since. Wish the guy would have got back to that Survivor Series size and worked from there.

But yeah I loved this PPV for what it was. Just all around fun.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Survivour Series 2011 was the PPV when Punk reign started, so yeah you can say it was pretty awesome.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

All i can remember from SS 11 is Punk/Del Rio and the Rock's return match which i have never wanted to see :lol

Think Orton and Barrett were in a elimination match? Honestly, not a memorable PPV at all.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm with you.

Besides the great Punk/del Rio match and the return match which was pathetic at best, I can't remember one match. Maybe there was a decent divas match? I know there was some sort of good divas match on a PPV round that time, I'm sure of it.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Snooze fest. The start of a monster reign where Punk wasn't even allowed to main event unless he was wrestling Cena. It was about as memorable as every Survivor Series ever, which is to say, not at all.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Just checked the card actually. I do remember Morrison/Ziggler actually, wasn't that where the crowd chanted We Want Ryder pretty loud, Ziggler won in what I believe was Morrisons last PPV match, then Ryder came out afterwards to attack Ziggler to a huge pop?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Oh I can remember the Ziggler/Morrison match which was quite great. Also Hunico performance


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Shuddering at the memory of Survivor Series 06. God that was abysmal.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> All i can remember from SS 11 is Punk/Del Rio and the Rock's return match which i have never wanted to see :lol
> 
> Think Orton and Barrett were in a elimination match? Honestly, not a memorable PPV at all.


Yep.






It was a fun match, Team Orton lost just like Orton did at Survivor Series 2012 which is funny considering Orton used to always win in Survivor Series matches. Barrett gets the clean victory over Orton, Hunico gets some spotlight which is cool because I've always like Hunico, Ziggler's in there but he gets eliminated first. (N)


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Looking back on Survivor Series 11, it wasn't actually that bad, but just goes to show that without the build and characters in todays wrestling, PPVs can be quite forgetful, especially one with solid matches like that, plus the MSG crowd were on fucking fire that night.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Yep.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats the one. It was fun, I agree. Kinda described that night for me personally. Wasn't taking this event too serious and just kicked back and made the most out if it. IDK I just felt like this was a fun PPV at that time, that had a great crowd backing it up along the way. We all know that SS has fell far and away in quality but this one was more enjoyable for recent times.

I need to go back and watch Show/Henry, though I loved Henry as champ during this time. Such a beast. 

But,

Punk's reign starting.
Like it or not, Rocks return match
Cool SS Traditional
Hot crowd
Forgot about this earlier but the fucking FINK made an awesome appearance as well.

were some things that came out of that night.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I remember watching it live and I marked harder for FINK than I did for The Rock.

Is that bad?


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I remember watching it live and I marked harder for FINK than I did for The Rock.
> 
> Is that bad?



Absolutely not. The Fink is God.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BOOKER T ...... I WANNA HAVE SEX WITH YOUR WIFE.

:lol @ Pedo-Kurt, watching Judgment Day 2005 at the moment, continuing my journey through 2005 in PPV.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Finkel got emotional when the fans gave him that great reception and took a second to start the intro and Cole just crapped all over him. Felt bad for the Fink and made me hate Cole more.

Crowd was great for Punk's win. I think they sang along to Cult of Personality during his entrance. MSG crowd FTW.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Was that at the beginning of the ppv? (Fink)

Edit - Found it. Hate Cole.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No, Fink was Punk's 'special ring announcer'. Pretty awesome moment, for sure.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

It WAS awesome. Bookmarked the match for later. I don't want to "start" the day off with Albert of the River.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jesus, now we have HEIDENREICH stealing little girls out of the crowd and reading them poetry.

THIS PPV IS FUCKING CREEPY.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I cannt name a time that I Don't sing along to Cult of Personality lol I remeber svs 11 for a fun ziggler/jomo, and two decent matches in the elimination tag and punk/del rio


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Mixing up my review style for the first match-up, to help sell how fucking great it is. Granted I have yet to scratch the surface of Mid-South, especially '85, but this is my favourite MS match so far, followed by DiBiase/Magnum Tulsa & Wrestling II/Magnum vs Neidhart/Reed in the cage. They had such a great 1984.



Spoiler: Some Mid-South/Memphis Greatness



*Rock n Roll Express & Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd w/ Jim Cornette 8th of June 1984*

Opening exchange, tremendous. Comedy bit by the Midnight Express, with the babyfaces getting the crowd into the match-up. Enjoyable formula, especially when executed by the Rock n Roll tandem. Ernie Ladd up against Ricky Morton provides a fantastic exchange, the Golliath of Ladd against the David in Ricky Morton. Crowd thoroughly digs this, as Morton takes down Ladd with his agility. 

Delving into the middle of the match, and with Duggan getting his turn, the match swerves into another direction, with some quality brawling. Eaton forcing time-outs, whether it's with Condrey or Cornette, in an attempt to slow the match down. The Midnights go to wear and gas out Duggan with constant pinfalls, but that comes to no avail. 

The way they structure this match, is almost flawless. Each man is coming in at the right time, doing the correct stuff, and the transitions are executed in the best possible manner. Ladd having his domination streak, the Midnights quick tagging and employing strategy, Morton & Gibson adding the face comeback bits when Duggan gets beat down by Ladd. And there is still some more quality yet to come in the match.

Morton's turn to take the beating after Eaton whacks him with a chair. Nice bit with Duggan attempting some revenge, but the referee breaks that up. Condrey throwing in another great Mid-South performance, as he beats down on Morton. While I can't sell his facial expressions, which I imagine are precise to the tee, I can't sell how badly he wants to murder Morton, punch for punch, just batters him. And takes a nibble at his forehead.

Morton attempts the comeback that only he can do, from a vicious beatdown from all three men in the corner, he employs the face in peril role better than any man. Crazy beatdown ensues, amongst the carnage, Eaton pins Duggan. In comes Cornette, can't have a post match beatdown without Cornette, as the crowd throws drinks, cups, and even an entire cup of popcorn at him, as he ethers Morton, and hits his racquette at Gibson & Duggan.

What a match. Another great one for the CV of both the Rock n Roll & the Midnights. Ladd & Duggan aren't just passengers in this tag team war either, their roles are equally as important, and contribute a great deal to this match. ****1/2

Now time for a little trip elsewhere, and heading over to Memphis with *Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell in a No DQ match*. 22nd of March 1982

A match that sold Mantell in the eyes of Memphis, I believe. A clean victory, and an incredible reign of dominance over Lawler throughout the match, including the accurate, and hilarious, steel chair throw at Lawler's knee. Everything both men did sold off the match, whether it was Lawler in control at the start, Mantell's absolute dominance, or Lawler's attempt of a comeback, only to lose the match clean. Lawler has some of the best punches in wrestling history, and when sold like they were here, they play such a great part of the story. Personally thought the match would end with the Piledriver, was surprised to see just moments after, Lawler made his comeback.
Blah, safe to say this match could of benefitted from a rough transition to transition review, recapping through it, rather than trying to recall it after it is done. An all time great slugfest. ****1/4.



Top bit for Mid-South, and now bottom for the Memphis bit. It's tied with Funk/Lawler from 03/23/81. Just over a year to date, weird. Maybe on the 3rd week of March 1983, Lawler has another all time great brawl. Felt sad I just had to check that, oh dear. But he doesn't, at least on this set. Wanted to try recap this match after it was done, but I don't think I did it justice. Just pay attention to the final sentence before the starz, then.

Now to dispute with myself whether I want to watch Mantell/Lawler Barbed Wire & the rematch for RnR/Duggan vs MEX/Ladd. Maybe I'm a month late, could of styled it after Rematchamania.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project *Final Entry* 
_Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_

Previous Entry Here

*Raw 14th March 2005 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*

It's 20 days before HHH defends his World Title against Batista at Wrestlemania, but tonight it's a 'pick your poison' match for HHH, with Batista picking Benoit as his opponent. Strangely enough, it's exactly one year to the day since Benoit won the title at Mania.

The bell rings and both men exchange a very emotive stare down, before the "you tapped out!" chants begin towards HHH. Benoit starts off like a freight train, completely outdoing HHH in every department and not letting The Game have any offense. JR and King chime in claiming HHH has never beaten Benoit in a singles match, which is clearly false as I have two matches in this entry where HHH has beaten Benoit. :lol They do actually rectify this stat a few minutes later when JR states that HHH hasn't beaten Benoit since Benoit moved to Raw in early 2004. Back to the match, and Benoit twice tries to lock in the Crossface early on, but HHH has it scouted well and makes it to the ropes before the hold is locked in properly. Benoit has been in complete control all match, as Raw heads to a break.

After returning, HHH hits a massive spinebuster after whipping Benoit into the steel steps during the break. He continues to work on Benoit's lower back by shoving him into the corner numerous times before hitting a Superplex as Benoit attempted to fight back. After both men have recovered, Benoit ducks a clothesline and hits a his patented triple German suplex combo. He's about to head to the top rope before deciding against it, and hitting another set of German suplexes. This time he does head to the top rope and connects with the diving headbutt, but somehow HHH kicks out at 2. Benoit can't believe it and hits _another_ set of German suplexes, HHH taking a real beating here which plays into the story that Batista wanted HHH to be worn down by Benoit. Benoit connects with some vicious chops before HHH counters with a big irish whip into the turnbuckle again, which apparently "aren't made of chocolate" according to JR, though somehow I doubt anyone ever thought they were. HHH attempts a Pedigree for about the third time in the match, but Benoit counters into the Crossface. Flair arrives on the apron as HHH counters. He tries to hit another Pedigree but Benoit counters again, showing how well he knows The Game, and this time locks in the Sharpshooter. Flair arrives on the apron again but this time is knocked off and thrown to the back. Flair goes ham and tries to throw his jacket off but it gets caught on his sleeve. :lol With Benoit distracted, HHH hits a low blow followed by a Pedigree for the win.

Great match, as you would expect from these two. They had callbacks to other matches involving them over the past year, and lots of counters showed they now knew each other extremely well. Benoit being on top for most of the match made sense, since Batista picked him to face HHH since HHH hadn't beaten Benoit on Raw. Probably the right result though, HHH stays strong heading into 'Mania.

******

*Raw 2nd May 2005 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*

It's the gold rush tournament, and with three men already through it's time to decide the fourth and final competitor. HHH is clearly pissed off when Benoit's music hits and he realizes that's who he's going up against. HHH seems to want to finish this match quickly and goes for an early Pedigree, but Benoit counters and tries for an early Crossface. HHH comes back with a big clothesline to the back of the head, where Benoit lost his LMS match to Edge the night before at Backlash thanks to a brick shot to the back of the head (really can't recall that match, will have to check it out again). HHH smells blood and continues to go after Benoit's head, and Benoit's selling is phenomenal. Some of the looks in his eyes are downright scary and he really looks out of it for a lot of the match. HHH manages to lock in a sleeper and Benoit's face begins to turn red, before he counters with a German suplex. He attempts another, but HHH counters with another strike to the back of the head. He tries to end it with the Pedigree, but Benoit counters again with another 2 German suplexes, followed by a diving headbutt.

Benoit locks in the Sharpshooter before Flair gets on the apron and Benoit takes care of him, before HHH capitalizes with another shot to the back of the head that also takes out the referee. The Game and Flair then beat down Benoit before Batista arrives and cleans house. Benoit then locks HHH in the Sharpshooter again. Batista is hilarious taunting HHH to tap at ringside, even pulling the rope away when HHH gets close. HHH sells the submission well as always, then swears furiously at Batista before finally tapping out.

Another great match between the two, Benoit's selling being a major point in this one. it really was fantastic. HHH played his role excellently too, continually targeting Benoit's weak spot and looking to take advantage of Benoit's potential concussed state at any point. The finish was overbooked slightly with Flair's involvement, the ref knockdown and Batista's arrival, but HHH being locked in the Sharpshooter at the end was superb and Benoit getting another rub from HHH by making him tap out.

****3/4*

*Smackdown 18th November 2005 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*

It's the Eddie Guerrero tribute show so obviously it's a very emotional night, and this also turns out to be the final time HHH and Benoit would compete in a singles match together. Benoit gets on top early and goes for a couple of early Crossface attempts that Triple H is able to wiggle out of. HHH takes refuge on the outside a few times as he can't keep up with Benoit's onslaught. Benoit then gets HHH trapped in the corner and connects with some strikes before HHH does his best impression of the Flair collapse. Benoit gets thrown over the top rope as HHH attempts to fight back. Some stern whips into the turnbuckle and a spinebuster now mean HHH is in control and is working over Benoit's lower back. More strikes to that area before Benoit gets trapped in an abdominal stretch, and then a sleeper hold. Benoit counters into his own sleeper hold, before hitting a German suplex. HHH attempts the Pedigree but Benoit slings him into the corner before connecting with some more German suplexes and a diving headbutt. HHH kicks out at 2, and then sets Benoit up for the Pedigree but Benoit counters into the Crossface. HHH tries to roll through but just like at Wrestlemania 20 Benoit holds on. HHH doesn't tap this time though and attempts to escape again, but Benoit manages to roll him up for the victory. Both men hug it out at the end of the match with very emotional scenes.

Obviously there was a lot of emotion around this time and both men were most likely distracted, but they still managed to put on a solid match. Benoit starting off fiercely in memory of his late friend and HHH wasn't able to handle the pace, before he managed to somewhat injure Benoit's back and began to work on that for the rest of the match. Solid finish too, a nice callback to WM20 and a feel-good win for Benoit.

****1/2 *



Spoiler: Final Standings



*Wrestlemania 20: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - *****
New Year's Revolution 2005: Elimination Chamber - ****1/2
Raw 21/5/2001: Triple H & Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ****1/2
Backlash 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2
No Mercy 2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****1/2
Raw 7/2/2000: DX, Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus & Too Cool - ****
Raw 14/3/2005: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ****
Raw 2/5/2005: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***3/4
Raw 12/4/2004: Evolution vs Benoit, HBK, Foley & Shelton - ***3/4
Vengeance 2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 26/7/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit (Iron Man) - ***1/2
Raw 29/11/2004: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs Edge - ***1/2
Smackdown 18/11/2005: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2
Raw 24/4/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 21/9/2000: Triple H, The Rock & Undertaker vs Chris Benoit, Kane & Kurt Angle - ***1/4
Survivor Series 2004: Team Triple H vs Team Orton - ***1/4
Raw 20/9/2004: Triple H, Batista & Flair vs Benoit, Orton & Benjamin - ***1/4
Raw 13/12/2004: Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - ***1/4
Smackdown 19/7/2000: Triple H & Chris Benoit vs The Rock & Chris Jericho - ***
Raw 11/10/2004: Triple H, Batista & Ric Flair vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Shawn Michaels - ***
Raw 9/8/2004: Triple H & Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - ***
Smackdown 28/9/2000: Triple H & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle - ***
Smackdown 3/2/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Smackdown 19/10/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit vs The Rock vs Kurt Angle - **3/4
Raw 5/7/2004: Triple H, Ric Flair & Eugene vs Chris Benoit & Edge - **3/4
Smackdown 2/11/2000: Triple H vs Chris Benoit - **3/4
Raw 6/12/2004: Triple H & Batista vs Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - **1/2
Raw 9/10/2000: Triple H & Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit & X-Pac - **1/4
Smackdown 12/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn - **1/4
Smackdown 26/10/2000: Triple H & Road Dogg vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - *1/4
Raw 6/11/2000: DX vs Radicalz - DUD*



Some obvious matches end up near the top of the standings, with the WM20 main event at #1. HHH and Benoit definitely thrived together in multi-man matches, with three more rounding off the top four. Before this project I rated their No Mercy 2000 encounter as their best singles match and that remains the case, though it did get an extra 1/4* added on this time. Two of the matches reviewed today stay at similar ratings and towards the top, showing how well these two worked together. Also a lot of tag matches, with some starpower-heavy ones from 2000/2001 and Evolution-heavy ones from 2004, most of them holding up well, especially most Evolution tags. Only four matches happened to fall below the **1/2 mark, which is pretty fantastic. All of them were tag matches, so minimal blame attached to HHH or Benoit on those. Strangely they were all from 2000. Overall this was a very fun project to complete, and the quality of the matches was almost always very high, which of course is not particuarly surprising when you consider the two men involved. (Luckily they didn't have any matches during HHH's 2003 run. :lol)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Backlash 2005*


Intercontinental Championship - Shelton Benjamin(c) vs Chris Jericho : **** 3/4*

World Tag Titles (Tag Team Turmoil) - William Regal(c) & Tajiri(c) vs The Heart Throbs vs Maven & Simon Dean vs La Resistance vs The Hurricane & Rosey : ****

Last Man Standing - Chris Benoit vs Edge : **** 1/4*

Kane vs Viscera : *** 1/2*

Shawn Michaels & Hulk Hogan vs Muhammad Hassan & Davari : *** 1/4*

World Heavyweight Championship - Batista(c) vs Triple H : **** 1/2*


Opener was all kinds of bossy as you'd expect from SHELTON at this point in his career when he was going out and putting on consistently awesome performances every week. This match is everything that an opener should be ; fast paced, tons of near falls, and some good character development in there as we get hints of Y2J going slightly mad over the fact that he can't beat Shelton no matter how hard he tries. Really athletic bout between the two makes me a happy guy, check it out as it's the Match of the night as well.

I HATE TAG TURMOILS for the same reasons that I hate gauntlet matches and Cruiserweight opens and all of that bullshit, but I was a fan of this one simply because it got alot of time to develop (well THAT mixed in with your usual Regal & Tajiri goodness). The tag turmoil served it's purpose to get the titles off one face team onto another face team without turning anybody heel or anything, but I felt some of the sequences here were kind of hollow and could have used a little more Regal and Tajiri. It was good for what it was I suppose but it's nothing you should go out of your way to see certainly, one of the best of it's kind.

I've gone down on the last man standing match significantly as I've realized that it's essentially a smattering of spots that just so happens to be complimented by an excellent performance by Chris Benoit on the selling end. Edge is as spotty as ever in this one, doing nonsensical things such as taking out a ladder(in a last man standing match?) and other bullshit that no doubt hurts the match from me. I'll say this much about the spots though; they were GOOD. Benoit taking the brutal suicide dive shot once again and the diving headbutt mishap makes me cringe as well, but Benoit did an absolutely fantastic job at taking a spotfest and turning it into a great match that doesn't get talked about much. It's fun as fuck, really good, and if you're a fan of Edge you'll probably enjoy this even more than I did.

FATTIES GOING AT IT. Okay, Kane isn't really FAT per se, but this was really fucking good and exactly what I expected from the pair. Big time move after big time move, pace kept relatively fast and short, sexual reference after sexual reference, Kane and Big Vis bumping all around the ring for one another, and TRISH BEING DOMINATED BABY! This was extremely fun and I feel that if you're a fan of fatty vs fatty than you'll enjoy this.

The HBK/Hogan tag was a good but formulaic tag that served it's purpose as a "crowd-centric" match based more off of reactions than anything else. If you replace Hogan with anybody else in the match it's essentially a basic tag with HBK taking an extended beatdown from the middle easterners while Hogan gets the hot tag and cleans house. If you're a fan of REACTIONZ* then you'll eat this the fuck up for sure as hell, I remember 8 years ago watching this event and marking out for Hogan like crazy and waiting for him to hit the leg drop (he never did ). It was DECENT. YEAH.

I adore this main event and I don't really care what anybody says. If Batista never fucked up the back work at the end of the match it'd be an easy four stars for me as I always enjoyed the idea of Batista being afraid of the pedigree and Triple H talking as much shit as humanly possible to try and get Batista angry as possible so that Haitch can catch him with the move and put him down for the 1-2-3. Trips works a really good control segment on the back for a majority of the match which Batista sells well (for about 90 percent of the match of course), and the beginning is awesome with Trips going for the pedigree twice and Batista almost hitting the Batista bomb while at the same time mocking Triple H saying he was "THIS CLOSE". The ending was sweet as fuck with essentially two callbacks to the Wrestlemania XVII match vs The Undertaker both with the belt shot out of the powerbomb and the Batista bomb out of the corner. LOVE this match and any fan of either guy should check it out as it's an easy watch with a great story being told.


*Overall Cal Scale Rating : 12*
​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gotta get back to my Punk 12 watching otl with YES! is next. I dont know if you guys have talked about it on here but their reports saying :bryan vs ryback tomorrow night is yet another TVMOTYC ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Punk/Bryan at OTL is ****1/2. The Figure Four spot is really cool. Need to watch the MITB match which I haven't seen since it happened. 

But first, resuming the Hell in a Cell stuff.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Mixing up my review style for the first match-up, to help sell how fucking great it is. Granted I have yet to scratch the surface of Mid-South, especially '85, but this is my favourite MS match so far, followed by DiBiase/Magnum Tulsa & Wrestling II/Magnum vs Neidhart/Reed in the cage. They had such a great 1984.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mark: @ both matches you covered. Shared my thoughts on both:



Spoiler: Mid South 6 man



*Rock 'n' Roll Express & Jim Duggan v Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd, (Mid South 6/8/84)*

To the people who criticise tag team wrestling, shame on you and I hereby recommend you watch this match and kindly swallom humble pie and proceed to worship southern tag formula wrestling. This is a bloody incredible 6 man tag with one of the loudest crowds I can ever recall hearing, with an abundance of wonderful tidbits that you only get in a STF tag. Condrey and Eaton are out of this world spectacular as the Midnight Express, whether they're running the famed comedy spots where Morton proceeds to make both of them his bitch or when they're in control and resorting to every underhanded tactic to bloody and isolate Morton, its just outstanding. Morton and Duggan are both superb here as well as the babyfaces who each receive a beating and both sell their asses off in the process.

Opening is everything you want it to be. Morton playing cat and mouse with Ernie Ladd is excellent, Eaton is the perfect foil for Morton's intelligence and they run one of my favourite spots where Condrey gets dragged into the babyface corner, eats a beating and Eaton sneaks up behind Morton to cheapshot him...only to see Morton turn around and backpeddle like a weazly genius...only to then try and turn around to catch Morton off guard only to be met by a punch from an expectant Morton who knows that cheap trick all too well. Rest of the middle revolves around some really fun Duggan interactions with each of the heels, whereby his immovable frame and dominant power gets worked into some tremendously fun exchanges, particularly the spot where Ladd is unable to launch him into the turnbuckle and eventually fall victim to a double noggin also involving Condrey. Duggan then gets caught by a weapon to the throat and proceeds to eat a brief beating where the Midnight Express constantly pull the ref out of position to allow Ladd to further the assault. Anyone who just remembers Jim Duggan as an outdated catchphrase carring a 2x4 would be well advised to see how fucking well he sells and controls a crowd here, if he wasn't tagging with Ricky fucking Morton he'd have been the best babyface in the match.

However he is tagging with Ricky fucking Morton, so of course when Cornette provides a distraction allowing Morton to be launched over the ropes and onto the concrete, we then get the best part of the match where the Midnight Express run through every heel tactic to isolate and bloody Morton. Morton is hands down the best FIP in history and he's astonishingly terrific bumping all over the place from every punch and strike from the heels and pulling the crowd into everything he does, and the beating he takes is hellacious. Seriously Condrey and Eaton just constantly pull and distract the ref at every opportunity, allowing them and Cornette to double team, choke and assault Morton at every opening and them constantly taunting and provoking Gibson and Duggan into entering the ring and further distracting the ref is just fabulous heel teamwork. The Ladd and Morton exchanges continue to be stellar, with all of Ladd's power offence looking like its crushed poor Morton, and the crowd suitably respond with a mixture of shrieking and silence. Match further breaks down near the end with Morton making a desperation tag only for the Express to once again distract the ref, leading to Duggan and Gibson just fucking off the rules and kicking the crap out of the heels allowing for Morton to pin Eaton after a Cornette screwjob hilariously backfires. Post match beatdown and brawl is just amazingly chaotic, and when you put into context all the fabulous heelwork and baiting by Cornette and the Express, its just a marvellously wonderful angle built on top of an outstanding wrestling match.






Spoiler: Lawler/Mantell



*Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell, Southern Heavyweight Championship, Memphis, NO DQ, (3/22/82)*

Just a brilliant brilliant hate filled brawl between two all time great workers with great punches, epic bumping and marvellous pacing and subtle touches into their work. This match also features bar none the greatest transition spot in professional wrestling history.

Early goings on here is incredibly great. Lawler starts off like a house on fire exploding with punches and getting the better of Dutch, particularly in one awesome spot where Dutch ducks for a backdrop coming off of the ropes (aka the spot every wrestling fan hates for its stupidity) only for Lawler to jump back and boot Dutch square in the face. There's also a delicious exchange where Dutch goes to shake the hand of Lawler (this spot makes me believe there's a problem in the match order listing of their feud but enough of that for now) and Jerry just slaps the piss out of Dutch's mouth. Dutch is really great at the memphis bumping of Lawler's terrific punches and the whole opening has a real chaotic feeling of a bar fight where anything can happen. Dutch catching Lawler's boot only for Jerry to carefully regain his balance BEFORE hitting a freaking awesome enziguri was another nice spot that caught me completely off guard. Dutch also doing his best to try to avoid getting into it with Lawler because he's being dumped on his ass everytime was also a cool little running theme early on.

Now comes the greatest transition spot in history: Lawler throws a steel chair to Dutch's shoulder from the ring to the floor. Dutch picks up the chair, circles the ring before getting on the apron and lauching the chair across the freaking ring right into Lawler's left leg and knee. It looked freaking amazing for deadpoint accuracy and Lawler sold having his legs whipped from under him in an awesome manner. Dutch now senses blood and goes to town on Lawler with nice leg work and cheapshot punches and stomps to the body. He gives Jerry an amazing beating including numerous throws into the ring post (think it was the third one furthest away from the camera which Lawler seemed to fly into at an extremely dangerous pace), some beautiful punches to the face as well as a bodyslame on concrete, repeatedly smashing Lawler's face into the apron as well as my second favourite spot where Mantell just casually goes to the outside and brings in another chair and just straight up bounces it off of Jerry's skull and Lawler does this insanely great KO sell where his body hits the mat at a terrific pace and the impact is tremendous. Dutch taking the time to playfully slap Lawler in the side of the head on the floor as revenge for his slapping earlier was freaking immense and exactly the sort of 'subtle touch' I referred to earlier.

Lawler's manager next to Lance Russell is also terrific at giving this match a 'Rocky' vibe with him occasionally shouting words of encouragement to Lawler: "I've learned never to give up on Jerry Lawler", "come on Jerry, suck it up and FIGHT" which ties in beautifully to Lawler's bloody eyed comeback which includes some gorgeous punches even by Jerry Lawler's terrificly high standards and a lovely revenge spot with Dutch hitting the ring post (always love how Lawler employs the rule of threes spot in a lot of his matches).

The finishing run is also brilliant. Dutch grows incredibly frustrated at his inability to beat Lawler and hits a couple of beautiful top rope kneedrops (cliche by know but Lawler's almost deadweight sell on impact was a joy to watch) and a lovely splash which surprised me given the length of the ring Lawler was from Mantell. The finish itself though is an all time great finish in its significance and the execution and pacing to get to this finish was also glorious. Dutch runs into Lawler and Lawler's greater weight sends Dutch spiralling to the floor. As he gets to the apron Lawler nails him with a few punches and takes the time to soak up the audience reaction before each one and on the third punch Dutch boots Lawler and hits a flawless sunset flip over the ropes and pins Lawler to win the belt clean as a whistle. A freaking incredible and amazing finish not only in its execution and planning but also given its Jerry Lawler FFS.




Definitely watch Lawler/Mantell II & III. They have a legendary segment on TV on 3/27 two days befor the Barbed Wire match with Dutch delivering a masterclass in promo technique and a great build to make you want to see the Barbed Wire Match. Hard to say if I prefer the 3/29 Barbed Wire encounter to their original No DQ match from 3/22, but there's not much between either match.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> :mark: @ both matches you covered. Shared my thoughts on both:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I desperately need to rewatch the 6 man tag. I was missing those little interactions you were pointing out, and here I was thinking it was Duggan eating the pin. Just got caught in the chaos. I'd put it down to trying to put the words into the wordpad also. An incredible tag match. And for anyone interested, just copy the wrestlers names into google, and you'll find the match. Won't find many better ways to fill 20 minutes.

Words to describe the performance I felt Mantell put in against Lawler, will be hard to pitch together. I haven't watched him before in singles, I know hes a booker, I've seen some Kansas Jayhawk tags, and that he is currently a manager. But all that was immediately wiped out after this. He isn't Zeb Colter anymore, he's Dutch fucking Mantell. The match was done with such intelligence and attention to detail, that it just comes across as something that evolved from wrestling, into art.

Will definately get round to their two matches that are coming up later today, throwing it in with DiBiase/Magnum from the 6th of July '84 and the 6 man tag rematch. Saw the DVDVR listings have the Barbed Wire above the No DQ, just the hype I need. With the LLT one in 16th out of 125th.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project *Final Entry*
> _Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_
> 
> Previous Entry Here
> ...



Technically they did have one other match - the '06 Rumble :lol:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah I know they were together in the 06 Rumble, but I decided from the start not to include that since it's a massive match and HHH/Benoit together wouldn't have been a big part of it (although I know they did interact). Plus I didn't think anyone would want to read another Rumble match review.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I desperately need to rewatch the 6 man tag. I was missing those little interactions you were pointing out, and here I was thinking it was Duggan eating the pin. Just got caught in the chaos. I'd put it down to trying to put the words into the wordpad also. An incredible tag match. And for anyone interested, just copy the wrestlers names into google, and you'll find the match. Won't find many better ways to fill 20 minutes.
> 
> Words to describe the performance I felt Mantell put in against Lawler, will be hard to pitch together. I haven't watched him before in singles, I know hes a booker, I've seen some Kansas Jayhawk tags, and that he is currently a manager. But all that was immediately wiped out after this. He isn't Zeb Colter anymore, he's Dutch fucking Mantell. The match was done with such intelligence and attention to detail, that it just comes across as something that evolved from wrestling, into art.
> 
> Will definately get round to their two matches that are coming up later today, throwing it in with DiBiase/Magnum from the 6th of July '84 and the 6 man tag rematch. Saw the DVDVR listings have the Barbed Wire above the No DQ, just the hype I need. With the LLT one in 16th out of 125th.


(Y)

Only other Mantell match that immediately jumps out to me is Mantell & King Cobra vs Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar (Koko Ware) from 7/19/82. Match feels like a top 10 tag in US history to me and has a really basic but great story: Eaton has pissed Mantell off to a high degree and is refusing to get near him until he's incapacitated and weakened. In between this you have Mantell & Cobra with a checkered past and potentially distrustful nature of the other. Koko and Eaton bump and stooge great, the STF is solid and worked to perfection and Mantell kills it as the pissed off and vengeful babyface.

Actually Lawler/Mantell vs Dundee/Landel 3/10/86 is a great match though more of a Dundee showcase performance as the demented and psychopathic heel as opposed to a Dutch showcase.

Yeah the 3/27 LLT is more comparable to the Lawler/Funk Empty Arena match. Its more of a wonderful studio segment with a pre match promo, short match before a post match promo which then is used to advance the feud and set up the 3/29 feud ender. Mantell is amazing in the post match promo, and indeed in the pre match promo. Such brilliant mic work which makes you think of him as an overlooked talent on the mic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Yeah I know they were together in the 06 Rumble, but I decided from the start not to include that since it's a massive match and HHH/Benoit together wouldn't have been a big part of it (although I know they did interact). Plus I didn't think anyone would want to read another Rumble match review.


To be honest, only 1996 is as underrated of a Rumble as 2006 is. So much great stuff in both matches.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Triple H vs. Batista - World Heavyweight Championship​**Vengeance 2005​*
The third match in this trilogy of matches between the Game and Batista is contested inside Hell in a Cell, or as JR calls it, “The Devil’s Duplex”. Triple H is great at showing how even he can be a bit reticent about stepping inside the demonic structure, as he stares up at it then gives Flair an embrace before going in. Special note - to this point, Triple H has not lost a one on one HIAC match, beating Cactus Jack, Kevin Nash, Chris Jericho, and Shawn Michaels.

Both guys get in some offense early, with Triple H emerging as the more dominant man just a few minutes in. The Game wastes no time in bringing in weapons, as he pulls out a chain from a toolbox and immediately commences the “government mule” whipping. It’s one thing to use a belt, but damn that chain looks painful. Batista takes control and returns the favor, whipping the Game with that chain. Trips’ selling of the chain-whipping is fantastic. The Game also enters this match searching for his 11th world title win.

When the callback spot to the first HIAC with Batista ramming Triple H’s back in the ring post and the cell, and back and forth. Triple H did the same callback spot the year before with Shawn Michaels. The Game is busted wide open and though he’s out of it, catches Batista coming with a big time Double A spinebuster. Then Triple H goes and pulls out the chair WRAPPED IN BARBED WIRE. He gets in one shot, which is enough to make your hair stand on edge. The chain whipping was painful enough to watch, but that barbed wire-steel chair is just nasty. The shot to the Game’s face is just sick. Game’s selling is GOAT, of course. Batista is firmly in control now, and rakes that steel chair across the Game’s face. It should be noted that Jim Ross’ commentary is nothing short of amazing. Selling the beatings, and the demonic nature of this match like none other. 

I always enjoy seeing one of the competitors using the other as a lawn dart, and Batista doesn’t fail me here. Game gets shot in the cell walls. The barbed wire-steel chair continues to be a factor, as Batista counters a Pedigree attempt but slams the Game on it instead. 

The Animal comes back with the steel chain, but Triple H drills Batista with a DDT right on the chair wrapped in barbed wire. This puts the Game is firmly in control, as lets the cell “get itself some”. The Game goes in and pulls out the sledgehammer. Batista catches him coming in and the two exchange blows. Batista looks for the Batista Bomb, but the Game counters into a backbody drop. Triple H drills the Animal with a hammer shot to the head, but Batista manages to kick out at 2. The Game is out on his feet, comes in and raises the hammer ready to strike, but Batista hits a low blow, allowing a moment to recover. As the Game tries to recoup, the Animal gets the sledgehammer and comes at Triple H at full speed, but the Game has wrapped the chain around his fist and drills Batista in the head. Batista again, however, manages to kick out at 2. 

Triple H comes off the tope rope with the chain, but Batista is waiting an hits the sledgehammer right to the Game’s neck, and it does look like he’s convulsing. Great selling here, too. Batista then just starts unloading on Triple H with right hands. The Animal is, of course, firmly back in control. He brings the steel steps in (after introducing them to the Game’s head on the outside) and bounces Triple H’s head off the steel several times. MORE GOAT SELLING. Batista signals that the end is near, however the Game foils a Batista Bomb attempt with a low blow, and comes right in and sticks the Pedigree. After the Animal manages to kick out at 2. Triple H goes for a Pedigree on the steps, however Batista counters into a vicious looking spinebuster on the steps. Good God that hurt me just watching. Batista comes in and gets the Game up for a Batista Bomb, but Triple H has grabbed the sledgehammer before going up, and just as he raises the hammer up, Batista drills his power bomb and gets the 1-2-3. 

Holy shit. So much painful action here, and great storytelling from both guys. Definitely the second greatest HIAC match, behind only HBK/Taker. ****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

3rd greatest Cell ever imo, behind both Taker/DX matches.

I've seen some idiots give the Henry/Orton Cell 1/2*. It's not amazing but it's sure good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> 3rd greatest Cell ever imo, behind both Taker/DX matches.
> 
> I've seen some idiots give the Henry/Orton Cell 1/2*. It's not amazing but it's sure good.


I'll have to check Henry/Orton again. Didn't recall it being too shabby. 

Taker/Trips HIAC is of course great. The top 2 and 3 cell matches are probably interchangeable, but since I'm fresh of Trips/Batista, that's my current No. 2. 

Orton/Taker is next up for later, which I'll likely follow with DX/ShowMahon.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> (Y)
> 
> Only other Mantell match that immediately jumps out to me is Mantell & King Cobra vs Bobby Eaton & Sweet Brown Sugar (Koko Ware) from 7/19/82. Match feels like a top 10 tag in US history to me and has a really basic but great story: Eaton has pissed Mantell off to a high degree and is refusing to get near him until he's incapacitated and weakened. In between this you have Mantell & Cobra with a checkered past and potentially distrustful nature of the other. Koko and Eaton bump and stooge great, the STF is solid and worked to perfection and Mantell kills it as the pissed off and vengeful babyface.
> 
> ...


That tag comes across as great. Hopefully I'll have the same opinion for it.

It does appear that a lot of earlier matches on the discs, throwing examples out, err, Bill Dundee, Steve Keirn, Rick & Robert Gibson vs. Dream Machine, Nightmare #1 & Heartbreakers (7/25/81), Bill Dundee & Tony Boyles vs. Wayne Farris & Larry Latham (6/7/80), Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (8/1/81) showcase Dundee. They are matches that live through him, and are pretty bland when he is out of the match. And they have been great, especially the Japanese tag with Lawler. Loved it ending with a Jimmy Hart inspired brawl. Pity I can't seem to see any Dundee up against Savage, or Garvin, or even Funk on the set. 

I still haven't got round to that Lawler/Funk empty area match-up, not sure what's holding me back. Just jumped onto disc 2. A LLT match to progress a feud does seem rather weird, but if anyone can work it, it'll be those two, and some '80s whackiness.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Batista/HHH would be my number 3 for cell matches, with Taker/HBK and Taker/Lesnar above it. All classics though (****1/2+), and I'd put Taker/Edge up there as a classic as well and a very close number 4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 HIAC Matches:

5. Triple H Vs Batista Vengeance 05 ****1/2
4. The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton Armageddon 05 ****1/2
3. The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar No Mercy 02 ****3/4
2. The Undertaker Vs Triple H WrestleMania 28 ****3/4
1. The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels In Your House 18: Badd Blood 05/10/1997 ***** GOAT

BOW DOWN TO THE, BOW DOWN TO THE KING *DEAD MAN*!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You forgot to include the Wrestlemania XV HIAC 8*D.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> That tag comes across as great. Hopefully I'll have the same opinion for it.
> 
> It does appear that a lot of earlier matches on the discs, throwing examples out, err, Bill Dundee, Steve Keirn, Rick & Robert Gibson vs. Dream Machine, Nightmare #1 & Heartbreakers (7/25/81), Bill Dundee & Tony Boyles vs. Wayne Farris & Larry Latham (6/7/80), Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (8/1/81) showcase Dundee. They are matches that live through him, and are pretty bland when he is out of the match. And they have been great, especially the Japanese tag with Lawler. Loved it ending with a Jimmy Hart inspired brawl. Pity I can't seem to see any Dundee up against Savage, or Garvin, or even Funk on the set.
> 
> I still haven't got round to that Lawler/Funk empty area match-up, not sure what's holding me back. Just jumped onto disc 2. A LLT match to progress a feud does seem rather weird, but if anyone can work it, it'll be those two, and some '80s whackiness.


Yeah most of Dundee's highs are working opposite Lawler in truth. His biggest highpoint in a non Lawler match is probably the 2/3 falls Scaffold Match vs Koko from 6/21/82. Masterful Dundee performance to utilise the gimmick to its fullest and piece together a great match that defies the seemingly obvious limitation that comes with a Scaffold Match.

In fairness without spoiling the angle the LLT is more of a tease than an actual match. I won't digress further as its something you should view without being made fully aware, but let's just say its more of a bait and switch on the part of the bookers and is more of a means to tease the fans before delivering the Barbed Wire stipulation.

That Lawler/Mantell vs Dundee/Landel tag is super though. Dundee is great but everyone else shines to some degree even if Dundee feels like the precursor to Eddie in '05 in terms of being far above the next best guy in the match.

Lawler/Dundee vs Midnight Express 10/30/87 is also supposedly a high end tag match. Its on the AWA comp.

Don't know if you've seen either, but Lawler/Jarrett vs Moondogs from USWA 1/17/92 & 1/25/92 are both great Memphis esque brawls. Tons of nutty bumps, visuals, stiff punches and great sleazy heel performances from the Moondogs. You know a match is crazy when a Moondog nearly being drowned in a sink by Lawler just about creeps into the top 3 moments of a match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 Cell Matches:

(****3/4)
1) Taker/HBK
2) Taker/Lesnar
(****1/2)
3) Batista/HHH
4) Taker/Edge
(****)
5) Taker/Orton

Taker rules the Cell match, no question about it. He also has the number 6 spot, 7 spot, 8 spot, and 10 spot.

Oh, also, looking forward to watching tonight. As probably the only fan of Ryback in this thread, all the rave reviews for his match against Bryan makes me very interested... and since it's Bryan he faced, I'm sure it'll be great.

Ambrose/Kane should be interesting too... and I forgot the rest of the spoilers, and I'll refrain from looking at the spoilers until at least after the show has aired.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ I just out of curiosity top 5 matches or do you have any ***** ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top Ten Cell Matches:

Undertaker/HBK *******
Undertaker/Lesnar *****1/2*
Triple H/Batista *****1/2*
Triple H/Cactus Jack *****1/2*
Undertaker/Triple H *****1/2*
Undertaker/Orton *****1/2*
Undertaker/Mankind *****1/2*
Undertaker/Edge *****1/2*
Armageddon 6-Man ******
Batista/Undertaker ******

If it wasn't for all the disappointing Cell matches in recent memory, I would say that HIAC is the GOAT gimmick match. Until then, the ladder/TLC match safely keeps its spot.

Everyone go watch Bryan/Ryback from Smackdown. Once again, the greatest wrestler of the past decade makes the most out of so little. ****1/4*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ that pretty low for what some reports say, supposedly this is Ryback best match in the e so far


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm a fan of Ryback.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Bryan/Ryback- ***3/4, yeah it was that good, Daniel Bryan is just that good
Kane/Ambrose- ***1/4


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah most of Dundee's highs are working opposite Lawler in truth. His biggest highpoint in a non Lawler match is probably the 2/3 falls Scaffold Match vs Koko from 6/21/82. Masterful Dundee performance to utilise the gimmick to its fullest and piece together a great match that defies the seemingly obvious limitation that comes with a Scaffold Match.
> 
> In fairness without spoiling the angle the LLT is more of a tease than an actual match. I won't digress further as its something you should view without being made fully aware, but let's just say its more of a bait and switch on the part of the bookers and is more of a means to tease the fans before delivering the Barbed Wire stipulation.
> 
> ...


Is there a particular reason why Dundee doesn't have a very extensive and high quality singles career? Were most wrestlers visiting Memphis just for the Lawler match payday?

Look out for my next single match mash up. Will include the Empty Arena, LLT, Barbed Wire match together. Taking a quick glance of the match-listings, next round is entirely Memphis. Throwing in the 2/3 falls Scaffold match alongside the Mantell/Cobra against Eaton/Ware.

Lawler/Dundee had a tag with the Midnights? Definately excited for that then, even though I am nowhere near touching AWA at the moment.

USWA, no chance have I seen it.  I'll slap it on the watchlist so it'll remain in my mind.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I enjoyed Ambrose/Kane more than Bryan/Ryback tbh.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Top Five Cell Matches

5) Taker/Orton
4) Taker/Lesnar
3) HHH/Taker
2) HHH/Batista
1) HBK/Taker

Six Man HIAC might be the least talked about. Great match.

Also, WHY DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE VINTAGE *insert superstar* with Cole? Damn I hate that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ I just out of curiosity top 5 matches or do you have any ***** ?


Yup:

1) Taker/HBK WM25
2) Bret/Austin WM13

That's it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Is there a particular reason why Dundee doesn't have a very extensive and high quality singles career? Were most wrestlers visiting Memphis just for the Lawler match payday?
> 
> Look out for my next single match mash up. Will include the Empty Arena, LLT, Barbed Wire match together. Taking a quick glance of the match-listings, next round is entirely Memphis. Throwing in the 2/3 falls Scaffold match alongside the Mantell/Cobra against Eaton/Ware.
> 
> ...


Well, I consider Dundee a great worker and an all time US great but you pretty much covered it. Lawler was the king of Memphis and so many of the top stars who came into the territory had extensive programs with Lawler (Terry & Dory Funk, Flair, Bockwinkel, Savage, Bigelow, Hennig) since he was the top star and worker of Memphis. Dundee was relegated more towards playing antagonist to Lawler's protagonist and then feeding off whatever he was given. I do think he has that Eddie quality to give a great performance whatever the match and program he's involved in though.

:mark: @ that run of matches you have before you. Truly envious there mate. I hope you'll love the Scaffold match. Its pretty much what typifies Dundee to me in terms of creativity. Basic story of the match is Dundee worked in construction and had stints in the circus so heights are something he thrives upon which makes him 'The King of the Scaffold match'. Koko is your typical out of his element heel who stooges early before realising he might not be able to best Dundee in terms of bravery but he can damn well dislodge some teeth with a punch and throw him to the floor if needs be. Dundee's pacing and timing of many spots is impeccable, both men work stiff and frightening spots/counters given how unsafe and tiny the scaffold looks compared to modern day matches utilising the gimmick and each fall is timed and executed with precision.

Lawler/Jarrett vs Moondogs, Concession Stand Brawl, USWA (1/17/92) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ06WyJbWww



> Oh man, this was such an awesome dirty fight and I loved every second of it. Folks might take issue with there not being too much selling, but I personally loved the way guys would immediately shrug off an object being launched in their direction in order to get some more of the enemy. Felt like a chaotic and out of control war where the participants just wanted to punch and draw blood and no pain would be enough to keep them down for long. Great punches and bumps by all men involved and some truly nasty spots, such as Lawler attempting to smash a glass over the head of a Moondog, attempting to drown him in a sink and just launching cans of coke and bins with no remorse right at their heads. Jarrett is pretty much in the background for the most part and when the camera cuts to him his left shoulder and back have some nasty cuts all over and it just puts over the entire ordeal. The Moondogs are such awesome surly bastards and this is no exception. They're not athletes but they're perfect in this environment where they can just punch the shit out of your heroes and bleed like pigs whilst their fat stomachs tell the story of bar regulars who view working out as taking away time they could be rough housing some innocent bloke in a rundown bar in Memphis. Anarchy, great punches and bumps, some really subtle but fine Lawler selling of a Moondog punch and the only thing missing was the absence of Lance Russell to really sell this bloodbath. This was certainly tickety-boo.


Lawler/Jarrett vs Moondogs, USWA (1/25/92) : 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1iqyVA9sfM (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtXOY9CjZkM (part 2)



> Amazing match which manages to surpass the efforts in the first encounter. Harrowingly violent war with some incredible bumps and feats of brutality. Opening is insane with one of the Moondogs taking a disgusting back bump over the rope onto the apron at a horrifying angle and when one of the Moondogs goes to cheapshot Lawler he gets absolutely nuked face first with a chair thrown 100mph by Jarrett coming out of picture and it looks like it should have led to a concussion. Far too many bumps and visually impressive moments to describe, but Lawler launching a bin right into the neck of one of the Moondogs, a wooden table being thrown straight into the face of another Moondog by Jarrett and Jarrett getting the bone thrusted straight into his throat stood out by far. Some emphatic and brutal chair shots to both Lawler and Jarrett and there's a particularly nasty looking guardrail bump late in the match on the outside.
> 
> Lawler sells terrificly and has a great comeback before the match breaks down into a free for all with referees getting slaughtered as they have the audacity to try and intervene and restore a sense of moralty into this disgusting affair. A fireball to the ever infuriating Richard Lee at the end by Lawler is still arguably only a top 3 moment in the match in terms of violence. Moondogs continue to excel in this seedy back alley environment with some hideous punches, a willingness to take frightening and horrific bumps and just creating this enamouring presence whenever they're on screen. Even the guys from Deliverance wouldn't want to fuck with these chaps. Again this match was without doubt tickety-boo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> The Triple H + Chris Benoit Project *Final Entry*
> _Every match Benoit & HHH appeared in together_


Great work and would rep if I didn't have to spread.

Three solid matches to close out their epic series and the 14 March 05 one is definitely my favorite singles TV match they've had after the Iron Man.

And if Benoit had worked with 2003 HHH, I'm sure he could've carried him to at least a very good match. He was just that damn good!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Great work and would rep if I didn't have to spread.
> 
> Three solid matches to close out their epic series and the 14 March 05 one is definitely my favorite singles TV match they've had after the Iron Man.
> 
> And if Benoit had worked with 2003 HHH, I'm sure he could've carried him to at least a very good match. He was just that damn good!


Thanks man. Yeah that 14th March match really is great, what rating do you give the iron man?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

★★★★¼ for the Iron Man and ★★★★ for Pick Your Poison. The former could have been a much more remembered classic had the Eugene bullshit not taken over.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Eugene bullshit hurts both the iron man match and their encounter at Vengeance big time for me. Obviously he was a part of the story at the time but I really wanted a clean finish to at least one of those matches. I give the iron man ****1/2*, though it would have been around ****** with a proper finish.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Yup:
> 
> 1) Taker/HBK WM25
> 2) Bret/Austin WM13
> ...


apologize for the grammar errors I didnt check that last post although you did answer my question :clap


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Ryback - ***1/4
Kane/Ambrose - ***

Good week for TV matches this week. Shield 6 man on Raw, these 2 SD matches, Cesaro/Kofi Main Event. All at least ***. Sometimes we go weeks without anything hitting the 3 star mark lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Cody was *** material too imo.

ABH's HHH vs Benoit project made me go to hunt something similar, only quite bigger: the Smackdown Six project. Aka watch and review every single match that featured Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Edge, Eddie Guerrero and Chavo Guerrero against each other. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Apparently Cesaro has a LEGIT match on NXT. Anyone else hear anything about this?

edit apparently against Generico.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Apparently Cesaro has a LEGIT match on NXT. Anyone else hear anything about this?
> 
> edit apparently against Generico.


WHAT?

dark match once again. Why must WWE do this to me...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cesaro/El Generico in NXT. That is a match that shouldnt be missed


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Thinking of checking out some WWE PPVS from 2001 tonight here. Any top 3 or something I should consider.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

1. Wrestlemania X-Seven
2. Summerslam 
3. Survivour Series


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam
WrestleMania 17
INVASION

Honestly, most PPVs are fun & worth watching. That's what made 2000 & 2001 so enjoyable.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Teddy Long would be proud of the number of Tag matches Angle and Edge had against each other.

2001 PPV's? WM 17, No Way Out and Rumble.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

WrestleMania 17
No Way Out 2001
Summerslam


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> WHAT?
> 
> dark match once again. Why must WWE do this to me...


Yeah they wrestled on NXT apparently. JR praised them so hopefully it's a good match. Can't wait to check it out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah they wrestled on NXT apparently. JR praised them so hopefully it's a good match. Can't wait to check it out.


Got it confirmed right now too. No words. Only excitement. Can't believe he's going to show up on TV already. Even if he'll be a jobber or something, idc. It's a lot sooner than I figured.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Royal Rumble
Wrestlemania X7
Survivor Series

Three best PPVs of 2001. Special mention to King of the Ring, Summerslam, and No Way Out.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Ryback vs Daniel Bryan. *** match. Ryback once again showing that he is a decent seller. Although I thought he botched the Thezs (spelling?) press but all it was really an awesome counter from Bryan :clap


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*2001:*

Rumble
No Way Out
Wrestlemania
Summerslam
No Mercy
Survivor Series

Superb year all round.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If anything from No Mercy '01 should be viewed - it's Kane vs Test.

OWNS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thoughts on orton/Alberto HIAC PPV ? i dont remember this match at all ? will I make thought without falling asleep ?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> thoughts on orton/Alberto HIAC PPV ? i dont remember this match at all ? will I make thought without falling asleep ?


 **3/4. From what I remember, Orton sold his arm injury very well in the match and there was a cool ending to the match. There was some confusion in the middle of the match where ADL jumps from the top rope and then stops but it was covered up well.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

****

Nothing special at all. Standard match with a thrown in botch for everyione


----------



## ZeDude (Oct 23, 2012)

Don't want to open a separate thread for this but I got a question about Y2J's book 'Undisputed'.
I want to buy the book but there are two versions which I can buy, one released in 2011 and one released in 2012. One thing I noticed on book sites is that the 2012 one has more pages but weighs a lot less than the 2011 one. Does anyone have the 2012 version and can tell me what the differences are with the 2011 version?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It isn't good. Don't waste your time with Orton vs Del Rio. That whole "feud" was a bust.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i wont even bother, Im trying to warm up to ADR, anybody wanna give a shot at top 5-10 ADR matches ? Ive seen his Christan ex 11, big show SD LMS,and punk svs 11, and didnt like his swagger 4/13 match


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ADR/Edge is worth a watch and all the ADR/Mysterio matches are fun


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

there was a mysterio match back in 2010 i think,.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you didn't like the 4/19 match then idk what you want from Del Rio, quite frankly.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> If you didn't like the 4/19 match then idk what you want from Del Rio, quite frankly.


Some personality.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Guys, if you can name Randy Ortons best match in wwe who would it be? 

I really REALLY enjoyed Orton/Cena from NWO 08. Very underrated IMO I gave this a ****1/4 rating. Too nice? . Id also have to throw his match with taker at WM in there as well.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Foley, Taker, Michaels

michaels/orton ss 07 is his best match i think. *****1/2*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Didn't care for Del Rio as a heel worker but I'm quite high on babyface Del Rio. Liked a lot of his stuff this year, namely his matches with Show, Ziggler and especially the 4/19 Smackdown match with Swagger. His series with Christian is probably his best work. Most people pimp the ladder match but I enjoyed one or two of their non-gimmick matches just as much, maybe more. Never seen FCA against Cena but the general consensus seems to be that it's good. 

Dude's a top 10 WWE worker right now imo.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Oh shit! Totally forget about Orton/Foley at backlash. Fpalm

Orton/HBK was good , but I HATED how the superkick was banned.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'd take Orton's match with Foley at Backlash 2004, with Taker at WM 21, and Christian at OTL 2011, over ANY Orton/Cena match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> I'd take Orton's match with Foley at Backlash 2004, with Taker at WM 21, and Christian at OTL 2011, over ANY Orton/Cena match.




Jesus idk what the fuck is wrong with me today. Orton/Christian SS was amazing. Could very well be Ortons best match. I have to give it a rewatch


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

I've Orton's match with Undertaker at Wrestlemania at a **3/4 rating. 

The match itself was okay, there were a couple of fucked up spots and Orton looked clumsy throughout the match which didn't help the rating I gave it, maybe you could chalk some of that up to inexperience but when you're wrestling Undertaker on the grandest stage you need to bring your "A-Game". I was using the streak as a frame of reference for my rating decisions though, so keep that in mind.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

My head feels bust. As do my fingers. Typing out reviews, and typing out a debate, while trying to multi-task numerous other activities. So I only have two matches of the five I wanted to watch tonight since I feel like i'm going to die. And neither of them are remembered for their matches. Woo. Made it easier for me to remember what happened I guess.



Spoiler: LAWLER IS YELLOW



*Jerry Lawler vs Terry Funk Empty Arena 6th of April 1981*

_'Lawler is yellow, he's yellow'. 'He's yellow son-a-bitch, he's yellow'_

The prematch stuff is bloody great. The bit with Russell doing the fourth wall skit before the match added to this entirely. In comes Funk just berating Russell, talking shit about Lawler. Pure fun. Lawler coming in with his crown & cloak had a chuckle from me. These are a couple of fantastic touches. 
As for the brawl,, not much entirely to it. But the manic Funk, smashing items to use just showed his character as the unstable psychopath that everyone has grown to love. Wish I had a better hearing memory for picking up some of the quotes during his trash talking.

As for the aftermath, when Funk got the, something, stuck into his eye, harrowing. That is going to give me nightmares. Yelling for help, doctor assistance, asking Lawler, Russell, screaming, talking to himself, definately one of the best character storytelling moments I've ever seen. It's a pity I am not finding as much to write about this as I should, but my hearing memory is really poor, and a good lot of the fun is Funk going crazy verbally. Rating N/A, but this is easily one of the best segments in wrestling history.

*Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell Loser Leaves Town 27th of March 1982*
In ring quality, it didn't beat their No DQ, and it was good, but nothing else. But that isn't the sole purpose of the match. The sole purpose was to sell their series, and it does so fantastic. I am confused how Dutch Mantell lost the title within 5 days back to Lawler, did they have a match in the middle somewhere? Looked like it was before the No DQ match. But regardless, the segment was great. And unfortunately, that's all I can put together in my mind at the moment. Very good feud progresser, but I feel I had the expectations of something a little more.



I know someone wants to watch Lawler/Funk, even if I don't know who you are. 
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4b2ft_terry-funk-vs-jerry-lawler-empty-ar_sport#.UYRCO8qjut8

I would do that thing where people put the link into a text, but God knows how I do that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker & Foley got the best out of Orton. 

Not gonna say Over the Limit 2011 since I credit that as a Christian show more than Orton. Granted Randy added his flare so it wasn't totally one sided. Christian's babyface work though. Brilliant.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Guys, if you can name Randy Ortons best match in wwe who would it be?
> 
> I really REALLY enjoyed Orton/Cena from NWO 08. Very underrated IMO I gave this a ****1/4 rating. Too nice? . Id also have to throw his match with taker at WM in there as well.


Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 2007, *****1/4*
Randy Orton vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 21, *****1/4*
Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point, I Quit Match, *****1/4*
Randy Orton vs. Triple H, No Mercy 2007, Last Man Standing Match, *****1/2*
Randy Orton vs. Mick Foley, Backlash 2004, Hardcore Match, *****1/2*
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit, SmackDown! 27th January 2006, No Holds Barred, *****1/2*

He has some more good matches with Benoit, Taker and Cena. He also has a good match against Mysterio on SmackDown! that I haven't watched in a little while, so I can't give it a proper rating. I haven't seen his series with Christian, although I've heard it was good. My favourite match of his is probably against Foley, to be honest. It legitimized him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know I want to watch Lawler vs Funk.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 RANDALL matches:

(****1/4)
1) vs. Christian OTL 2011
2) vs. Edge vs. Cena vs. HBK BL 2007
3) vs. Edge vs. Batista vs. Benoit vs. Jericho vs. HHH NYR 2005
4) vs. Undertaker WM21
(****)
5) vs. Christian SS 2011

So by this, Christian and Edge have the most matches with Orton on the list... but Edge's one's are all multi-man matches that had less to do with him, so Christian gets the nod for Orton's best opponent. However just to be certain, here's only singles top 5 Orton matches:

(****1/4)
1) vs. Christian OTL 2011
2) vs. Taker WM21
(****)
3) vs. Christian SS 2011
4) vs. HBK SVS 2007
5) vs. Benoit SS 2004

So I'd say Christian is Orton's best opponent, with maybe Taker following, and then Benoit.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Gamblor said:


> So by this, Christian and Edge have the most matches with Orton on the list... but Edge's one's are all multi-man matches that had less to do with him, so Christian gets the nod for Orton's best opponent. However just to be certain, here's only singles top 5 Orton matches:


I totally forgot about the Backlash Fatal Four Way. Speaking of Edge, what did you think of his match with Orton at Vengeance 2004? I've got it sitting at ****, although it drags on for a little too long.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ruiner87 said:


> I totally forgot about the Backlash Fatal Four Way. Speaking of Edge, what did you think of his match with Orton at Vengeance 2004? I've got it sitting at ****, although it drags on for a little too long.


I've got it sitting at ***3/4, used to have it at ****.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

As far as overall matches go I don't think I can look past Orton/Mysterio 4/7/06 on Smackdown as his best match. Everything about that match just clicks perfectly imo and remains a personal favourite. Top 5 Smackdown match ever feels fairly comfortable imo. Austin/Benoit '01, Taker/Angle '03, Eddie/Rey '05 & Hardy/Finlay '07. Those four feel comfortably on par or superior, then probably the two Benoit/Finlay TV matches from '06 (5/5 & 11/24) not far behind.

Wouldn't begrudge anyone putting Orton/Christian OTL as his best though. Like Cody I do credit a great amount of the match turning out as great it did as evidence of Christian's talent since I found his desire to prove himself a worthy champion in light of having his moment stolen away from him and his ability to work some smart touches into the match, such as nearly going for the reverse crossbody that Orton countered to win the title on SD only to hesitate and switch into a sunset flip showing he had it scouted. Orton did play his part though and this was probably the best example of his fluid execution aiding the match in terms of some well timed counters and I do love the nearfall off of him hesitating on the punt leading to a Christian counter.

Said it before, but an underrated Orton performance for me is vs Henry at NOC '11. Again, Henry's personal story of needing to become champion to validate his career played a big part in the match turning out so well but I have to credit Orton for continually making himself look so overwhelmed throughout the match. The way he worked underneath coupled with Henry looking so assured and almost wrestling the match of his career gave off this surreal vibe where logistically speaking Henry appeared to be on the cusp of winning and yet as a viewer conditioned to the WWE formula you were just waiting for him to lose..so to see Orton have one last desperate attempt at scuppring Henry's plans only to see him easily thrown aside and subsequently pinned was incredible.


edit @ Desecrated. Glad to see you loved both matches come segments. Funk's selling of the eye injury is stunning and one of the most harrowing sounds I've heard in a wrestling ring. Not even Mankind circa '96 with his shrieks could connect with me on such a harrowing level as Funk's wails did. Lawler/Mantell certainly wasn't booked to be a great match, moreso a great segment/angle to push the feud towards its scheduled climax which as you alluded to succeeded triumphantly.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)*
He gets in the ring with guys, makes them look better than they ever have before, and propels them to their best match. That's what Daniel Bryan does. He did it with The Miz, he did it with Dolph Ziggler, he did it with Ted DiBiase and Wade Barrett, and now he's done it with Ryback. I'd have to re-watch Punk/Ryback TLC to see if it's actually Ryback's best match but either way the point still stands; Ryback has never had a non-gimmick singles match anywhere near this level and it was largley down to a spirited babyface performance from Bryan. He had a game plan to combat Ryback's size and strength advantage (targeting his left leg, predominantly with kicks) and he stuck to it from start to finish. Really liked how he kept going back to the leg kicks at every opportunity and to Ryback's credit, although he didn't sell the leg all that much in the long term, I thought he did a good job of making himself seem vulnerable to DB's onslaught. Bryan countering a Thesz press attempt into a half crab was swank. Also loved the exchange towards the end where Ryback lifted Bryan straight into a powerbomb, then when he went for it a second time Bryan kicked out at him but all that did was piss off Ryback and he absolutely creamed him with a second more emphatic powerbomb. Watch this. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Will give that a watch tomorrow Ownage (Y) . Heard good things and from the brief discussions I've seen it looks like Bryan gave another great babyface performance and exentuated all of Ryback's strengths whilst devising a structure that hid his weaknesses and hinderances.

Also got Hardy/Masters from '07 that I've heard good things about. Be interesting to see if Masters possesses and shows any of the talent that would lead him to becoming one of the absolute best workers in the world in 2010. Its Matt Hardy in '07 so I'm expecting nothing short of great work from him given the run he put together in that timeframe, but Masters prior to his revelation as a worker will certainly be an interesting watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hate to sound like a WOOLCOCK fanboy _(even though I am_ 8*D) but shoot. Orton vs Mysterio matches were always on point. Should have thought of that myself. Match at NWO proved to be more of an Orton character showcase for me than it was for Mysterio.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Will give that a watch tomorrow Ownage (Y) . Heard good things and from the brief discussions I've seen it looks like Bryan gave another great babyface performance and exentuated all of Ryback's strengths whilst devising a structure that hid his weaknesses and hinderances.


Pretty much. Ryback held up his end of the bargain but it was 'The Daniel Bryan Show'. Come to think of it, is this the first opportunity Bryan's had to work a 10+ minute match this year? I think it might be. The Jericho match on Raw was under 10 IIRC.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nothing jumps out immediately bar that one Ziggler match from Raw where they got a bit of time. Think it was in the buildup to Wrestlemania since Ziggler pinned Bryan. But they've wrestled so many matches they all blend together most of the time and its hard to differentiate and give a specific date.

Yeah from what I've seen Ryback had some impressive power spots which he's always possessed. Its typically been more about his opponent being able to give him his shine periods whilst dominating and holding the pieces together in between Ryback's offence to get the most out of him. Punk managed fine as the dastardly and cunning champion trying every means to an end to halt Ryback's momentum and in Bryan's case he has someone who's a great bumper and can piece together a simple yet logical structure to add some cohesion and struggle to a match.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Daniel Bryan is so awesome he just carried Ryback to a good match.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Yeah Ryback vs. Bryan was nice, Bryan got demolished in the last minute or so but he showed that he wasn't just a pushover.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Oi, Cody/WOOL/Cal/Yeah/sumuvacunt, recommend me a STERLING match to watch from WCW 1990-1994. Can't sleep and bored as fuck.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Oi, Cody/WOOL/Cal/Yeah/sumuvacunt, recommend me a STERLING match to watch from WCW 1990-1994. Can't sleep and bored as fuck.


Oooh man:

Dustin Rhodes/Vader Clash of the Champions '94 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/dustin+rhodes+vs+vader/1#video=xz8gp9

Dustin Rhodes/Vader Saturday Night '92 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9...november-199_sport?search_algo=2#.UYRWwsqGXeE

Steamboat/Rude Beach Blast '92 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/steamboat+vs+rude/1#video=xz8bpd 

Cactus Jack/Sting Beach Blast '92 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/cactus+jack+vs+sting/1#video=xz7klw

Southern Boys/Midnight Express GAB '90 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/southern+boys+vs+midnight+express/1#video=x1n39j

Rock n Roll Express/Midnight Express Wrestlewar '90 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/southern+boys+vs+midnight+express/1#video=xz8y31

Dustin Rhodes/Jake Roberts Saturday Night '92 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/dustin+rhodes+vs+jake+roberts/1#video=xa4iws

Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne/Nasty Boys Spring Stampede '94 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/cactus+jack+vs+nasty+boys/1#video=xz8eim

Sting/Vader GAB & Starrcade '92 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/sting+vs+vader/1#video=xvx0ag (GAB) / http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/sting+vs+vader/2#video=x1umg4 (Starrcade)

Sting/Vader Strap Match Superbrawl '93 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihwAbLHpMRw (part 1)

Dustin Rhodes/Bunkhouse Buck - Bunkhouse Match '94 - No Link sorry.

Steamboat & Rhodes/Arn & Zbyszko Clash of the Champions '91 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/steamboat+and+rhodes/1#video=x4bacr

Flair/Vader Starrcade '93 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/flair+vs+vader/1#video=x1l6j3 (part 1)

Of those:

Sting/Vader Superbrawl, Southern Boys/Midnight Express, Steamboat '91 tag, Dustin/Vader '94 or Cactus Spring Stampede '94 tag would be my recommendations. Quality matches under twenty minutes.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Kane/Ambrose was alright. Nothing special. Great week for TV matches though. Anybody in here seen the Jericho NXT match? Do I need to watch it?

THE LIST:

1. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
2. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
3. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
4. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
5. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
6. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
7. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
8. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
9. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
10. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
11. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
12. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
13. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)

RYBACK with more appearances on the list than anybody else~!!`1!

:ryback


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thanks all for the ADR question I would rep you but I need to spread reps around. I gonna watch some of his match with REY,idk why but i just didn't dig his match 4/19 with swagger. Idk if my hatred for both character wise is the problem
As for the Randell question
Foley BL 04 ****3/4
christian OTL ****3/4
TAKER WM 21 ****1/4
gonna give SS07 with heartbreak another watch but I remember loving it (as most of :hbk2 matches)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont mean to double post but has that ryback/bryan happen already just got in ?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Dont mean to double post but has that ryback/bryan happen already just got in ?


Yeah. It was the opener on tonight's SD.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^shiiiiiitte why must you be on Friday night smackdown


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Oooh man:
> 
> Cactus Jack/Sting Beach Blast '92 http://www.dailymotion.com/gb/relevance/search/cactus+jack+vs+sting/1#video=xz7klw.


Just watched this. How the fuck did Foley even make it to the WWF? Seriously, some of those bumps on the concrete were horrid, the sunset flip from the apron absolutely made me cringe. Heaps of fun though. Crowd is hot at the start before erupting at the end after a little cool off period, JR is at his rampant best, the ramp/ring is used imaginatively and pretty much everything looks stiff and legit. Fuckern good stuff.

Chairs by the way bor, you now have the upper hand over CODY in regards to my vote for best wrasslin' poster at the end of year awards :side:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Just YT it


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> I know I want to watch Lawler vs Funk.


Just got to be careful those screams don't haunt you into the night.



WOOLCOCK said:


> edit @ Desecrated. Glad to see you loved both matches come segments. Funk's selling of the eye injury is stunning and one of the most harrowing sounds I've heard in a wrestling ring. Not even Mankind circa '96 with his shrieks could connect with me on such a harrowing level as Funk's wails did. Lawler/Mantell certainly wasn't booked to be a great match, moreso a great segment/angle to push the feud towards its scheduled climax which as you alluded to succeeded triumphantly.


I felt the manner of the match being unceremoniously dumped was rather weird, it felt like it wasted the stipulation. But I am going to head off with that match in mind, thinking it's sole purpose was to put over Mantell, in which it did beautifully. Hopefully it'll be fresh in mind for the barbed wire match tomorrow, depending on how well I sleep. And considering how soberingly buzzed and off my head I feel, I will may just rewatch both the No DQ and LLT just to have it in memory.

@Andre, if you want a 90-94s WCW match, I absolutely recommend that Enforcers/Steamboat&Dustin match. Number two on my favourite U.S tags, granted I've yet to get through half of the good shit from the MEX, and Arn/Eaton in the Alliance. Luckily Woolcock linked the match. Just got to echo it's supreme greatness.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Just watched this. How the fuck did Foley even make it to the WWF? Seriously, some of those bumps on the concrete were horrid, the sunset flip from the apron absolutely made me cringe. Heaps of fun though. Crowd is hot at the start before erupting at the end after a little cool off period, JR is at his rampant best, the ramp/ring is used imaginatively and pretty much everything looks stiff and legit. Fuckern good stuff.
> 
> Chairs by the way bor, you now have the upper hand over CODY in regards to my vote for best wrasslin' poster at the end of year awards :side:


No worries mate, took part in a Top 100 matches of WCW poll last year so a lot of this is relatively fresh in the memory. Glad you liked it. FWIW the Spring Stampede '94 tag is also pretty hard to watch. Take the Nasty Boys and their proclivity for 'reckless execution' and Foley's willingness to put his safety on the line for the sake of an angle and feud and you have some pretty dangerous spots. Cactus/Vader likewise seems some stupidly stiff strikes from Vader at Foley's expense and the mad bastard refuses to cover up like a man of sound mind (though one punch from Vader could hypothetically slowly reduce the mental capacity of the average male, its a working theory atm but I haven't the bollocks to try an experiment myself).

Match is really great though and more evidence Sting from '90-96 was a top quality worker when he wanted to be. The Vader series is absolutely majestic and pretty much the blueprint formula for David vs Goliath matches in US wrestling and he has a great match vs Regal from the Great American Bash '96 albeit that match is something closer to a Regal masterclass.

Cactus/Orndorff Falls Count Anywhere can be another match to cringe at Foley's reckless abandon for his body. I remember a couple of over the rail concrete bumps that were particularly brutal.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> @Andre, if you want a 90-94s WCW match, I absolutely recommend that Enforcers/Steamboat&Dustin match. Number two on my favourite U.S tags, granted I've yet to get through half of the good shit from the MEX, and Arn/Eaton in the Alliance. Luckily Woolcock linked the match. Just got to echo it's supreme greatness.


Stop breaking WF kayfabe GODDAMNIT!

Will do though bor, cheers. Any Steamboat = worth one spin from me.

Why are you debating about footy by the way? Didn't have you down as a fan of the beautiful game



WOOLCOCK said:


> No worries mate, took part in a Top 100 matches of WCW poll last year so a lot of this is relatively fresh in the memory. Glad you liked it. FWIW the Spring Stampede '94 tag is also pretty hard to watch. Take the Nasty Boys and their proclivity for 'reckless execution' and Foley's willingness to put his safety on the line for the sake of an angle and feud and you have some pretty dangerous spots. Cactus/Vader likewise seems some stupidly stiff strikes from Vader at Foley's expense and the mad bastard refuses to cover up like a man of sound mind (though one punch from Vader could hypothetically slowly reduce the mental capacity of the average male, its a working theory atm but I haven't the bollocks to try an experiment myself).
> 
> Match is really great though and more evidence Sting from '90-96 was a top quality worker when he wanted to be. The Vader series is absolutely majestic and pretty much the blueprint formula for David vs Goliath matches in US wrestling and he has a great match vs Regal from the Great American Bash '96 albeit that match is something closer to a Regal masterclass.
> 
> Cactus/Orndorff Falls Count Anywhere can be another match to cringe at Foley's reckless abandon for his body. I remember a couple of over the rail concrete bumps that were particularly brutal.


Honestly, I don't know how you have the patience time to do that sort of stuff. Have you ever thought about writing for a pro graps magazine? You should at least consider trying to start a fanzine or something.

I must watch that Vader/Cactus match. Vader was always rough as fuck from what I've seen, the best way to be imo. (By the way, was their infamous Germany match ever recorded?)

It's funny because when I used to train down at Hammerlock (14-16 at the time) I hated "unnecessary stiffness", but as I got older I realised how important it was to a big grudge match/heated feud. Remember one lad used to really slam on the holds and crank away, always left with sore shins. Still, makes me appreciate these sorts of matches now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I felt the manner of the match being unceremoniously dumped was rather weird, it felt like it wasted the stipulation. But I am going to head off with that match in mind, thinking it's sole purpose was to put over Mantell, in which it did beautifully. Hopefully it'll be fresh in mind for the barbed wire match tomorrow, depending on how well I sleep. And considering how soberingly buzzed and off my head I feel, I will may just rewatch both the No DQ and LLT just to have it in memory.
> 
> @Andre, if you want a 90-94s WCW match, I absolutely recommend that Enforcers/Steamboat&Dustin match. Number two on my favourite U.S tags, granted I've yet to get through half of the good shit from the MEX, and Arn/Eaton in the Alliance. Luckily Woolcock linked the match. Just got to echo it's supreme greatness.


I always took it as a genius bait and switch personally. Mantell's promo to draw Lawler out is a great promo that doesn't clarify his stance. There's elements of arrogance but at the same time it has the passion and confidence of a man obsessed and determined to end the war once and for all. Then he starts the match, realises he's in over his head and with the stipulation attached he sees his legacy on the line and bails hoping to play to Lawler's mercy and draw upon other threats to Lawler to bait him into cohesion and a union rather than tear themselves apart whilst the true enemy sits unaffected. Then of course he dupes Lawler and lays him out and goes back to being the most deplored and reviled man in the territory, with everyone recognising his obsession has taken him far beyond reprise.

Mantell's post match promo is so brilliant as well since anyone with a working mind can anticipate and see the inevitable sucker punch coming yet he's so convincing and apologetic when speaking that you can begin to second guess his motivations only to see him sucker punch Lawler and reaffirm your transgression.

I'd put the Steamboat/Rhodes vs Arn/Zbyszko tag tentatively in my top five US tags. Said that a few months back and since then have seen a few matches that might push it further back, albeit in the top ten. Might actually try and watch what I'd currently cite as the top ten US tags one day and see if I could decide on a preliminary order.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Honestly, I don't know how you have the patience time to do that sort of stuff. Have you ever thought about writing for a pro graps magazine? You should at least consider trying to start a fanzine or something.
> 
> I must watch that Vader/Cactus match. Vader was always rough as fuck from what I've seen, the best way to be imo. (By the way, was their infamous Germany match ever recorded?)
> 
> It's funny because when I used to train down at Hammerlock (14-16 at the time) I hated "unnecessary stiffness", but as I got older I realised how important it was to a big grudge match/heated feud. Remember one lad used to really slam on the holds and crank away, always left with sore shins. Still, makes me appreciate these sorts of matches now.


Eh, its not too hard. Its set over usually at minimum one year and when you break it down you can usually put together a tentative list off memory, then work on rewatching stuff in addition to watching the rest. Putting together a final ballot can be a ballache when you start deliberating between whether your #48 is really that much better than your #72 etc but sometimes that's half the fun. I'm working on a top 100 for '00-09 currently with a few others covering worldwide matches (WWE, TNA, ROH, Indy Scene, Japan, Lucha, UK, rest of the world) and that's been pretty interesting albeit far longer and something I've found more easier to approach. I loved WCW but by the end I was burnt out on US wrestling for a few weeks, whereas now if I tire of the US style I can watch 5-10 Japan matches and then work my way back around to the US style.

Eh I doubt I'd have time tbh mate. I know a few on here do mini blogs but honestly I like sharing my thoughts here so I doubt putting together a blog would honestly be of much use aside from maybe allowing me to do individual projects or work my way through comps save making a thread for each one.

As for 'recklessly stiff' I meant more how Foley wouldn't even attempt to cover up given what Vader was like on offence. I'm a big advocate of working stiff when the time calls for it and its used to advance the match and story, but in that scenario I had to think Foley was a bit blind and overestimating his resiliency to willingly eat the punches he did. Same reason I admire the idea yet cringe at the Danielson/McGuinness spot from Unified in Liverpool in '06. If you're unfamiliar it comes near the end of the match where Bryan traps Nigel on the outside whilst in the ring and rams him into the ringpost headfirst unprotected half a dozen times, making Nigel bleed hardway in the process and no doubt contribute to his current physical handicap.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I always took it as a genius bait and switch personally. Mantell's promo to draw Lawler out is a great promo that doesn't clarify his stance. There's elements of arrogance but at the same time it has the passion and confidence of a man obsessed and determined to end the war once and for all. Then he starts the match, realises he's in over his head and with the stipulation attached he sees his legacy on the line and bails hoping to play to Lawler's mercy and draw upon other threats to Lawler to bait him into cohesion and a union rather than tear themselves apart whilst the true enemy sits unaffected. Then of course he dupes Lawler and lays him out and goes back to being the most deplored and reviled man in the territory, with everyone recognising his obsession has taken him far beyond reprise.
> 
> Mantell's post match promo is so brilliant as well since anyone with a working mind can anticipate and see the inevitable sucker punch coming yet he's so convincing and apologetic when speaking that you can begin to second guess his motivations only to see him sucker punch Lawler and reaffirm your transgression.
> 
> I'd put the Steamboat/Rhodes vs Arn/Zbyszko tag tentatively in my top five US tags. Said that a few months back and since then have seen a few matches that might push it further back, albeit in the top ten. Might actually try and watch what I'd currently cite as the top ten US tags one day and see if I could decide on a preliminary order.


I don't think I can dig into the 'bait and switch' tactic, especially when seeing things from a different perspective. Then again, I could understand it if it was viewed as a promotional and hyping tactic to build up for the big blow off match. And if that is the case, then I've probably solved my only problem with the seg.

I agree on the promo being absolutely gripping. There was always the instinct of doubt, how far would he go to try usurp Lawler, he knew he then slowly realised he was struggling and took the shortcut. The way the promo came across, it made me believe that the LLT occured before the No DQ. Everything just seems to go together in the order of LLT > No DQ > Barbed Wire.



THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Stop breaking WF kayfabe GODDAMNIT!
> 
> Will do though bor, cheers. Any Steamboat = worth one spin from me.
> 
> Why are you debating about footy by the way? Didn't have you down as a fan of the beautiful game


More of a strength than modern day wrestling. I can see why you think that way, I don't really pop by the sports sections to post very much, but I just look at it like I don't have any varying opinion to add to the discussed subject. .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I don't think I can dig into the 'bait and switch' tactic, especially when seeing things from a different perspective. Then again, I could understand it if it was viewed as a promotional and hyping tactic to build up for the big blow off match. And if that is the case, then I've probably solved my only problem with the seg.
> 
> I agree on the promo being absolutely gripping. There was always the instinct of doubt, how far would he go to try usurp Lawler, he knew he then slowly realised he was struggling and took the shortcut. The way the promo came across, it made me believe that the LLT occured before the No DQ. Everything just seems to go together in the order of LLT > No DQ > Barbed Wire.


I'm pretty sure the idea the dates may have been mixed up has long been touted especially given the footage and how it came into circulation and the realistic possibility dates may always be confused. Its been too long since I watched the series of matches to accurately recall any glaring instances that might lend credence to the order of matches being wrong though.

I think the LLT stip was just a way to exenuate and seemingly 'conclude' the feud there and then and thus signifying to the viewer how personal it had become for Dutch by calling for an impromptu Loser Leaves Town match. His subsequent weasling out of the match by gettting Lawler's consent felt more like a plot device to progress the angle, gain Mantell some heat and allow them to book an unconventional match as opposed to the traditional Loser Leaves Town.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

So, I just watched that *Enforcers/Steamboat+Rhodes tag*.

Fuck this crowd is hot. Steamboat’s strikes at the start are vicious, what a relentless mother. Then everything went fuckern wild on the outside. Why can’t modern graps be like this, everything so chaotic and natural looking? Enforcers retreat like a pair of dudes who realise that they shit they’ve stepped into a field of extremely fresh as cow pats. They regroup to try a new approach but appear to have utilised tactics that are akin to General Haig’s in the battle of the somme, out wrassled by Steamboat/Dustin. Trumped for brawling and tekkers. Steamboat looks pumped as fuck, even more than a wazim pervis blow up doll.

Fuck I can’t believe how legit Dustin looks as a “normal” wrestler. I liked Goldust but this guy could have been more than respectable as himself. Inexperience lets the ruthless eye gouging Anderson back in. Arn sells beautifully in this, makes the offence look great. The “time out” gesture was a fantastic little touch, rare you see that sort of thing now. Steamboat back in, still looking as frustrated/irate as a Norfolk man who’s sat next to his attractive cousin in a “civilised” setting. Looks like Ricky’s overzealous rage has allowed the far more calculated Arn a way back in, but Steamboat’s relentless. Zybysko the berk just had to step in though, somebody always has to ruin it. 

Fuck sake JR stop announcing the match so well, how can I listen to MC/King/even JBL after this? Fans are so behind Steamboat’s FIP, although it’s obvious why, his selling draws you in so much. This guys knew how to suspend disbelief. Fuck I like Arn’s boots/trunks combo, snazzy. Nobody tell me that “the look” doesn’t matter. Love the slickness of the stomp reversal from Rickaaay which itself is reversed into a Boston crab. Should call it a boston crap tbf, looks more toilet humour than a stink face really. 
Fuck sake ref, how did you miss that tag from Dustin, you would think it was stoppage time at old Trafford with a dodgy dive from Young in the box when United are drawing. DUSTIN finally gets in, big pop goes the weasel, cleans house. Ref is still a dunce. Ricky back in, cross body for the pin, crowd ejaculates for it after edging at the tip in anticipation of the ultimate come back for so long. New tag champs!!! Wait, people cared about tag titles back then? Wared cunts, nobody gives a fark about tag matches, do they Vince?

Match Rating = Luverly Jubbly



WOOLCOCK said:


> Eh, its not too hard. Its set over usually at minimum one year and when you break it down you can usually put together a tentative list off memory, then work on rewatching stuff in addition to watching the rest. Putting together a final ballot can be a ballache when you start deliberating between whether your #48 is really that much better than your #72 etc but sometimes that's half the fun. I'm working on a top 100 for '00-09 currently with a few others covering worldwide matches (WWE, TNA, ROH, Indy Scene, Japan, Lucha, UK, rest of the world) and that's been pretty interesting albeit far longer and something I've found more easier to approach. I loved WCW but by the end I was burnt out on US wrestling for a few weeks, whereas now if I tire of the US style I can watch 5-10 Japan matches and then work my way back around to the US style.
> 
> Eh I doubt I'd have time tbh mate. I know a few on here do mini blogs but honestly I like sharing my thoughts here so I doubt putting together a blog would honestly be of much use aside from maybe allowing me to do individual projects or work my way through comps save making a thread for each one.
> 
> As for 'recklessly stiff' I meant more how Foley wouldn't even attempt to cover up given what Vader was like on offence. I'm a big advocate of working stiff when the time calls for it and its used to advance the match and story, but in that scenario I had to think Foley was a bit blind and overestimating his resiliency to willingly eat the punches he did. Same reason I admire the idea yet cringe at the Danielson/McGuinness spot from Unified in Liverpool in '06. If you're unfamiliar it comes near the end of the match where Bryan traps Nigel on the outside whilst in the ring and rams him into the ringpost headfirst unprotected half a dozen times, making Nigel bleed hardway in the process and no doubt contribute to his current physical handicap.


I can understand how you would get burnt out on a certain style after relentlessly watching it. Ordered loads of WWE dvds circa 2006-2010 a while back, after watching one every night it became really tedious, hence my desire to watch other stuff such as early 90's WCW. 

That's a shame mate, can't think of anybody else who does a blog around here :side: Seriously though, if I ever make it in the world of publishing/journalism I'll know who to call (pm?) straight away.

Yeah I get what you mean about doing reckless shit when it doesn't advance anything. It's like when I watched guys perform at the empire theatre (where I was supposed to see YOKO, he died four days earlier  )who were performing stupid bumps in front of a few dozen people. Nobody has seen you before so there's no need to give away so much, especially when you consider how much those guys (won't) get paid and how much of a toll it takes on their day to day lives/jobs. Those people in attendance would probably be enticed back with a basic show anyway. It's just not worth it.



Desecrated said:


> More of a strength than modern day wrestling. I can see why you think that way, I don't really pop by the sports sections to post very much, but I just look at it like I don't have any varying opinion to add to the discussed subject. .


Come into the threads, don't be shy. We need more intelligent posters, even if you're just adding minor points to things that have already been said. 

Thanks for the rec by the way (+ WOOL), thoroughly enjoyed that match (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Oi, Cody/WOOL/Cal/Yeah/sumuvacunt, recommend me a STERLING match to watch from WCW 1990-1994. Can't sleep and bored as fuck.


I spent way too many minutes trying to figure out who 'Sterling' was. Yes, I said 'who'.....:$

But are prob over 100 matches in 1992 alone worth going out of your way to see.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Guys. Just made a crazy discovery. So I stopped in my local Wal-Mart to pick up some GOAT movies with GOAT actors since I've got a free weekend for the first time in a while. Got my movies, and saw that they had a fairly decent selection of WWE video. They had Wrestlemania 1-15, but 16-22 and 24 weren't there, which means two of the GOAT manias weren't there. They also had a few docs, and I ended up grabbing the Elimination Chamber anthology and Ladder Match (first one) since there were a number of things on those I wanted to see. 

Here's the discovery: Apparently a lot (or all) WWE superstars have a DVD made with some basic biographical info and some random matches. Most of them made sense like Cena, Orton, Sheamus, Bryan. But Zach Ryder had one. Yes. ZACH FUCKING RYDER HAS A DVD. This is clearly something for the kids, but I couldn't get over it. 

Oh well, I'm looking forward to popping these in this weekend. The Ladder match set came out in about 2007, and Benoit is at least in a few MITB matches, and maybe they got some more in there with him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so many goodies on that ladders 1 dvd


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Just watched this. How the fuck did Foley even make it to the WWF? Seriously, some of those bumps on the concrete were horrid, the sunset flip from the apron absolutely made me cringe. Heaps of fun though. Crowd is hot at the start before erupting at the end after a little cool off period, JR is at his rampant best, the ramp/ring is used imaginatively and pretty much everything looks stiff and legit. Fuckern good stuff.
> 
> Chairs by the way bor, you now have the upper hand over CODY in regards to my vote for best wrasslin' poster at the end of year awards :side:


I call shenanigans!

oh and one match that wasn't listed from that time you asked about that should be seen is Sting vs Vader from Great American Bash '91. Vader's beast like performance is class. All their matches honestly were. So, so great.

OH and Liger vs Pillman SuperBrawl '92 :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WAR GAMES 91


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey/ADR 6/20/10 ***1/2 i think it was del rio debut


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/Ryback was pretty good. Danielson's baby face performance was top notch as usual. Ryback looked good but he definitely could've sold the knee more. I understand he needs to look strong for the match against Cena but Bryan's entire gameplan was attacking the leg to ground Ryback. Overall very good match.

Edit Lou Thesz Press counter =


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Check out my new thread in classic wrestling!


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> I call shenanigans!
> 
> oh and one match that wasn't listed from that time you asked about that should be seen is Sting vs Vader from Great American Bash '91. Vader's beast like performance is class. All their matches honestly were. So, so great.
> 
> OH and Liger vs Pillman SuperBrawl '92 :mark:


I'm sure there will be plenty more twists and turns on the bumpy road to ANDRE'SVOTEAMANIA (wtf?).

Will give Sting vs Vader a run tomorrow.

Got that Pillman/Liger (plus another from Nitro 95) match on my loose cannon dvd, ta very much. On that note I will go to bed and watch it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Bryan/Ryback was pretty good. Danielson's baby face performance was top notch as usual. Ryback looked good but he definitely could've sold the knee more. I understand he needs to look strong for the match against Cena but Bryan's entire gameplan was attacking the leg to ground Ryback. Overall very good match.
> 
> Edit Lou Thesz Press counter =


I thought Ryback sold well enough short term and yeah, he could've sold more long term but I didn't really mind it because he's Ryback and he's built like a tank.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Also missing was Sullivan/Cactus vs Nasty Boys from Slamboree. Better than the Payne/Cactus version imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished off Judgment Day 2005.

The two BIG matches on the card (Eddie/Rey & JBL/Cena) were .... WOW. Boosted the shit out of it, making it the second best 2005 PPV so far according to the CAL SCALE at this point (surpassing NYR, Rumble, & Backlash).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I thought Ryback sold well enough short term and yeah, he could've sold more long term but I didn't really mind it because he's Ryback and he's built like a tank.


Yeah, I tend to not let that stuff bug me too much, and given Ryback's character I can justify him shrugging off most of Bryan's offense. I'm just glad they gave Bryan some time to work. Really hope he gets a solid singles run after they drop the belts.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I tend to not let that stuff bug me too much, and given Ryback's character I can justify him shrugging off most of Bryan's offense. I'm just glad they gave Bryan some time to work. Really hope he gets a solid singles run after they drop the belts.


Yes sir. I'm cool with Bryan's current situation because they're feuding with The Shield but they better give him a proper singles push after this. Hopefully the Shield program leads to Bryan v Ambrose/Rollins/Reigns. Probably just a matter of time now that Ambrose has worked a couple singles matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'd love an extended midcard feud between Bryan and Ambrose, with Bryan obviously acting as the outnumbered underdog babyface and being given multiple 10+ minute PPV matches. There really hasn't been a memorable, lengthy, heated midcard feud in a long time. Has there been a good one since like Foley/Flair? When was Hardy/Edge?

PPVs these days are like 2-3 main events and a bunch of random throwaways.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Come to think of it Shield vs Bryan storyline makes perfect since given the history among Bryan/Ambrose/Rollins. They could continue their "justice" routine by claiming Bryan has devolved from an Indy wrestling machine to a glorified comedic performer.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I'd love an extended midcard feud between Bryan and Ambrose, with Bryan obviously acting as the outnumbered underdog babyface and being given multiple 10+ minute PPV matches. There really hasn't been a memorable, lengthy, heated midcard feud in a long time. Has there been a good one since like Foley/Flair? When was Hardy/Edge?
> 
> PPVs these days are like 2-3 main events and a bunch of random throwaways.


I don't know about 'heated', but I would consider the Jericho/Mysterio and Punk/Mysterio feuds to be midcard, and they at least produced some good matches. Really, the problem is that the roster is too damn bloated at the moment. They need to fit in so many matches for their main event guys, that not even midcard titles get any time. Also, the booking is terrible.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree. Jericho/Mysterio is a great example. Feuds external to the main event these days lack any type of story/build/point.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> I agree. Jericho/Mysterio is a great example. Feuds external to the main event these days lack any type of story/build/point.


There you go


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Call me crazy, but I actually thought that Ziggler/Ryder from late 2011 was a really well-done midcard feud that helped everyone involved in it. Say what you want about Ryder today, but he played an awesome face during that time period.

I second the recommendation of Dustin/Roberts from 1992. Jake Roberts does one of the coolest things I've ever seen from a heel with the way he fakes an injury. Certainly one of Jake's best matches in his career. Come to think of it, what are his best matches anyways?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah Kingston/Cesaro ruled all the planets. I didn't really notice Kofi (which is good since I usually notice he's doing something shitty), but Cesaro just MADE everything. The swing and superplex need no more mention, but, holy really fucking yes shit YES they were great. He hits everything so nastily; the elbow was nasty, the uppercut was nasty, and my GOD that double stomp on the knee. Vicious. Dude is so, so good at working that hierarchy role and seemingly any wrestler can be plugged into it flawlessly. The finish was perfectly fine and didn't give Kofi a chance to no-sell the leg assault. Not that he would have, necessarily (I've seen him keep damage to the leg and make it look like more than a pile of shit), but I don't fucking trust him and it didn't give him a chance to anyway. Yeah Kofi was fine; Cesaro was a miracle. C'EST UN MIRACLE, C'EST VRAI, C'EST UN MIRACLE. Cesaro might be the best wrestler in the world right now. I only say 'might' because I have paid no attention to anything outside of WWE. He's the best wrestler in the WWE, anyway.




funnyfaces1 said:


> Come to think of it, what are his best matches anyways?


v. Ric Flair 11/24/85
w/the Barbarian v. RNR Express 6/28/85
w/ Steve Williams v. the Fantastic 4/14/85
v. Ricky Steamboat 8/28/86 + that AMAZING one that on the Steamboat WWE set. IDR the date of that one and am too lazy to find where I jotted it down. 6/27/86? There was one on 6/27/86, right? Was it taped that night and aired on {{_whatever date the WWE DVD lists it as_}}? Are they different matches? Ahhhh fuck it watch all of the Steamboat/Snakes you can find.
v. Rick Rude 10/24/88 <<I have this listed on an old paper as "***1/2" but I have no recollection of it. S'probably good, anyway.
v. The Dirty White Boy 5/7/94 (there's another match in 94 they had that is supposedly good but I haven't seen it yet.
v. Randy Savage 11/29/86
v. Dick Slater 1986 (there are multiple and I don't remember which I thought were the best, I remember liking the best ones an awful lot. There were at least two I really, REALLY dug IIRC).

I'm looking at the Mid-South listing and I see a bunch of stuff that looks awesome (and that I've that seen) but I honestly don't remember how good they were. Would be a lot more to add to that. Holy shut I should do the youtube thing for Jake. :marr:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> I'm sure there will be plenty more twists and turns on the bumpy road to ANDRE'SVOTEAMANIA (wtf?).
> 
> Will give Sting vs Vader a run tomorrow.
> 
> Got that Pillman/Liger (plus another from Nitro 95) match on my loose cannon dvd, ta very much. On that note I will go to bed and watch it.


:mark:

did you watch Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90? Legit think I can dub it as my favorite match I've ever seen. At least favorite tag match/top ten pick for a lock. Covers a lot of ground. Fairly comfortable with my statement.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starting my Smackdown Six Project now. You think today's stuff is repetitive? Angle vs. Benoit happened like 13 times.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

ATF said:


> Starting my Smackdown Six Project now. You think today's stuff is repetitive? Angle vs. Benoit happened like 13 times.


In its defense, it's a matchup that was worth seeing that many times.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh I just watched Ryback vs. Daniel Bryan from Smackdown. I enjoyed it a lot more than I was expecting to. Can't believe Bryan got such a great match out of him. That counter of the lou thesz press into the half boston crab was awesome.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NO! said:


> In its defense, it's a matchup that was worth seeing that many times.


Let's hope so.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I guess a lot it will depend on how big of a fan you are of Benoit and Angle. I loved all of their PPV encounters and thought they had amazing chemistry not only as opponents, but as teammates. I think the "Smackdown Six" thing you're referring to is that time where Heyman was the head booker? If so, Angle and Benoit teamed up over the course of that era and I thought they helped make the Smackdown tag team titles look credible. There was an Angle/Benoit vs. Mysterio/Edge match on Smackdown that's a classic in my opinion. They had another match at No Mercy 2002 but I don't remember which came first. Eventually the Guerreros got involved and it's the last time I recall giving a shit about a tag team feud in the WWE.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Ryback vs Bryan ***1/2
Kane vs Ambrose ***


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NO! said:


> I guess a lot it will depend on how big of a fan you are of Benoit and Angle. I loved all of their PPV encounters and thought they had amazing chemistry not only as opponents, but as teammates. I think the "Smackdown Six" thing you're referring to is that time where Heyman was the head booker? If so, Angle and Benoit teamed up over the course of that era and I thought they helped make the Smackdown tag team titles look credible. There was an Angle/Benoit vs. Mysterio/Edge match on Smackdown that's a classic in my opinion. They had another match at No Mercy 2002 but I don't remember which came first. Eventually the Guerreros got involved and it's the last time I recall giving a shit about a tag team feud in the WWE.


It all depends on how much "Let's throw submission counters at each other and hope people call it classics" mode they go into. I'm a big fan of their PPV matches too, but you never know.

Also, the No Mercy match came first.

EDIT: Because we're into the Smackdown Six, take a look at...uh... this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, all of those Benoit vs Angle matches sound kind of terrible when I know most of them will start off well then turn to nonsense like how their PPV matches usually did.

Royal Rumble '03 I'm looking at you.

Give me different opponents for those two at the time and I'll be better suited. Angle vs Mysterio _(or hell even Edge; dig their series)_ & Benoit vs just about anyone else capable.


----------



## BANKSY (Aug 21, 2011)

I thought Miz/Bryan and Ziggler/Ryder were two decent mid card feuds in recent years.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Now these are numbers that please me: Eddie vs. Rey happened 9 times, and Eddie vs. Benoit happened 8 times. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio.

And the gods of wrestling smiled upon us.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Whoa, Rey/Eddie happened nine times in 2003? The shit? Really?


-----------

Watched a couple of matches from the DVD that has Angle/Lesnar iron man on it. The iron man goes seven thousand minutes so I will save that for a day where I am in the mood.

Rob Van Dam v. Chris Jericho (Raw 9/16/02)
For a guy who's known for having a crap ton of personality Jericho kinda says the same thing every time. 'Come on Van Dam, Come on ref, Come on baby'. You know I haven't watched an RVD match in probably a year and he's growing on me a little. He isn't a TERRIBLY good wrestler, but can be a solid hand depending on what style he's called to work (like, not the Jerry Lynn stunt-show style). Jericho works his back over and he has some really cool vocal selling and obviously isn't afraid to take a bump. He is really sucky at forearms, though. Usually when a wrestler is sucky at forearms it's because they're only using the forearms as filler to position the opponent for a bigger spot, and the forearms don't look like the wrestler even gives a shit about throwing them. RVD looked like he gave a shit about throwing them, but they looked crummy anyway. He is a pretty good flyer, though. When he's not doing stunt-show shit his offense can actually look like it's more about getting the impact of the fall onto his opponent over the flashiness. My favourite part of the match was a random spot where Jericho goes to 'spear' RVD in the corner and RVD jumps like he's dodging so Jericho can run into the ring-post. But instead of Jericho running into the post, RVD drops himself and drop-kicks Jericho with both boots right in the face while Chirs was running toward him. I don't think Jericho even saw it coming. This was solid and much better than the piece of nothing PPV match that Van Dam had with Helmsley a week later.

HHH v. Kane (Raw 6/23/03)
I had no idea what the match-listing for this DVD was following RVD/Jericho so when I saw HHH's music play and the WWE DVD date thing say '2003' I actually went 'ohhhhh God. Oh no. Oh no.' Then Kane comes out. _Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeey_. So this is where Kane loses his mask and I'm honestly not sure if I've seen this match before, but part of me thinks I have. Well, now I definitely have and I wonder why I even bothered. Maybe b/c I knew it could be funny. This has HHH v. Steiner-esque vibes and there were some funny parts like where Kane jumps head-first into the ground before Helmsley even decides he wants to do a DDT (and then Kane sits up), and HHH attempting another fucking neck-breaker despite being the worst fucking neck-breaker-erer of all time. He didn't even reach Kane's head, never held it, and Kane just clumsily falls. And then Kane sits up. Nothing looked good here. I don't even remember what move it was, but Helmsley hits Kane and sends him over the barricade and it looked totally stupid. "Sends him over the barricade" isn't the right string of words because Kane kind of, like, 'jumps' over it, or something. Just....EHHH WHAT DO I SAY ABOUT IT!? The ref bumps were horribly obvious and inorganic. God, everything was worthless. I don't regret watching this, nor do I regret watching practically any match I see, but it wasn't any good at all and neither guy is as good as Mike Enos and fuck this shit and fuck 2003 Raw. 2003 Raw has to be the worst period in WWF/E history.

Anybody got any under-the-radar awful matches? I'm in a mood.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Shelton Benjamin vs. John Morrison from some Judgment Day PPV. 2009 maybe. Craptastic!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think Kane vs Trips casket match from 2002 is rather terrible.






I think a match the week before that or something in area had one of the most overbooked endings ever. Something shitty & schmoz riddled. Can't remember which match it was but it closed out a RAW.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^ No, Rey/Eddie happened 9 times IN WWE.

But while we're at it...










*ATF's Smackdown Six Project*
*Introduction*

After my succesful World Heavyweight Championship project reign, I've decided to aproach something a little more chubby, and more technically sound too. The Smackdown Six was the name given to the combos of Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Edge, Rey Mysterio and Chavo Guerrero during the prime of Smackdown (2002-2003). Everytime those six would come together in a match against each other, things would always get good. However, not always it needed to be JUST those two years. Before and after those six men (and some others) were involved in some of WWE's best bouts ever.

This project is to coinjoin, review and present every match that involved Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Chavo, Rey or Edge in oposite sides, be it Singles, Tag Team, Royal Rumble, doesn't matter. As long as it had two (or more) of those six men against each other (Note that this does NOT include matches like those that feature two of the SD Six vs. two guys that do NOT belong to that group, though).

I hope you enjoy this trip down memory lane, and find yourself some hidden gems while reliving some truly amazing matches!​


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Shelton Benjamin vs. John Morrison from some Judgment Day PPV. 2009 maybe. Craptastic!


This is true, i thought it would be at least a fun little fast paced match but it was slow, made no sense at all and was just all round terrible.

Benjamin/Christian from TLC 09.

I tried again, everytime i have seen this it just gets worse and worse and this time was no different. Awful, considering who was in it and all.

***


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Rock/Taker KOTR 1999 has to be one of the GOATs when it comes to the most overbooked finishings of all time. Otherwise, a rather solid match, I dug Rock/Taker's chemistry way more than Austin/Taker's chemistry. If only they were given, more times to shine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only thing I like about the KOTR '99 match is Undertaker's general Minstry swag.

Not much else.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im currently watching beautiful bobby vs armstrong


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Taker/Rock's best match together is probably at Raw in 2000. I never liked their PPV matches but to be fair, they were never really involved in a serious program together. At least the triple threat in 2002 redeems it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Shelton Benjamin vs. John Morrison from some Judgment Day PPV. 2009 maybe. Craptastic!





Obfuscation said:


> I think Kane vs Trips casket match from 2002 is rather terrible.


Oofa. Just the fact they go over ten minutes makes me want to hide and watch MIKE ENOS again. But speaking of bad matches, anyone ever see MVP v. Husky Harris? Get some caffeine ready. Greatest kip-up ever @ 5:34, though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcRXOBZ7R70

I should just go watch some botchamania. Been a while.



ATF said:


> ^ No, Rey/Eddie happened 9 times IN WWE.


I get myself too excited sometimes.  :$


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Only thing I like about the KOTR '99 match is Undertaker's general Minstry swag.
> 
> Not much else.


So what's up Hayley, I mean Obfuscation. 

Fun fact: Cena is a better wrestler than Trips.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Hollywood Rock vs. Biker Taker would've been :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> im currently watching beautiful bobby vs armstrong


BEAUTIFUL BOBBY EATON

makes life worth living...



Yeah1993 said:


> Oofa. Just the fact they go over ten minutes makes me want to hide and watch MIKE ENOS again. But speaking of bad matches, anyone ever see MVP v. Husky Harris? Get some caffeine ready. Greatest kip-up ever @ 5:34, though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcRXOBZ7R70
> 
> I should just go watch some botchamania. Been a while.


I expected it to be MVP, tbhayley.

go watch Jericho vs Wyatt from NXT this week. It may give you a chance to bash Jericho some more and watch as Wyatt was the real star of the match. He bumps fun + Luke Harper is the greatest.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

good match really enjoyed it . love jr/dusty too.

dustin rhodes vs landell now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JR/Dusty combo 

Nature Boy Buddy Landell you say?! Dustin Rhodes is the man.

EDIT ~ GOATAntics: no doubt Cena > Trips. No doubt at all.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

I like Undertaker vs Rock from KOTR 99, ***3/4 for me.The match from RAW 2000 is short but it's a good match .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

oh man vader vs hansen (sp?)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Short & MANLY.

can't wait till you see the epic WAR GAMES match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Kenny I swear that post in your MOTYC thread started out with the intention of being concise..I think I have a problem  .

Vader/Hansen is very good and has the highlight of Vader's eye injury after a stiff Hansen punch. 

Vader/Hashimoto 4/24/89 is also a stellar match and one of if not Vader's best match in Japan off of memory.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Another FUN Fact: Denzel Washington surpasses Robert Deniro by a slight inch when it comes to dramatic performances. Denzel's meltdown within the finishing stretch of "Training Day" is perfection of the dramatic genre.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

oh that is the Vader eye injury match. Couldn't remember if that was in Japan or not.

Brilliant.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah Hansen/Vader with the famous eye injury is in Japan. That's the match Kenny was talking about right? I don't remember them having a US match but looking back he was watching purely US matches so now I'm thinking he might have been referring to a different match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

GOATAntics said:


> Fun fact: Cena is a better wrestler than Trips.


Is this an unpopular opinion? I mean outside of those who think Cena only uses two moves and is a virus?



Obfuscation said:


> go watch Jericho vs Wyatt from NXT this week. It may give you a chance to bash Jericho some more and watch as Wyatt was the real star of the match. He bumps fun + Luke Harper is the greatest.


I don't really BASH Jericho. All the time. :side: He's just a dude who's usually a good hand, SOMETIMES sucks, can be very good, had an AWESOME character in 1998 (seriously, that shit is incredible), but is pretty overrated. I do like him, but I can't think of many of Jericho's really good matches where he was putting on the better performance in the match (even v. HHH, who is Jericho better than). I thought HHH was better their match, Guerrero was better in their match, Benoit was better in their match, the Rock was better in their match, Rey was better in their match(es), Christian was better in their match, Goldust was better in those Raw tags, Juvi was better in their match (I think, barely remember), Enos was better in their match, Scorpio was better in their match, etc. He did have good matches with 2003 Michaels, though. I don't like 2003 Michaels.

I should watch Jericho v. Goldberg again.

I hope they repackage Brodie Lee when calling him to main roster. I've seen very little of him on NXT and the dude is a good worker (wasn't surprised considering what I saw of his 2012 on the indies), but I don't like the gimmick enough. He's playing second or third banana to Husky Harris and he should be a monster heel dude, I think.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Is this an unpopular opinion? I mean outside of those who think Cena only uses two moves and is a virus?


Yeah1993, Cena haters run amuck on this entire forum, So you know their blinded by his stale character and refuse to realize how great his ring skills truly are.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Preaching to the choir Yeah1993 vis a vis Jericho. He has good matches in his career certainly but I can't really think of specific great Jericho performances outside of a couple. Not insinuating he was carried in his good matches but more like you that he wasn't usually the guy who I could pinpoint as having heavily contributed to the match turning out so well. FWIW I'd certainly say Eddie/Jericho Fallbrawl '97 could apply to your Fujiwara point in the MOTYC thread vis a vis not needing two men to make a great match. Jericho was fine as the largely vanilla and dry babyface but near enough everything I loved about the match stemmed from Eddie whether it was his control segment or little touches in the beginning like feigning a hair pull to draw the referee to him and then pulling Jericho's hair to escape the hold. Little stuff like that just always impresses me.

With Jericho eh, I just don't think he really does much in the way I look for in a worker, especially post '08. He hits stuff fine but outside of the HHH LMS match I can't recall specific Jericho performances as a babyface I thought were too great and as a heel he seems content to sit in that resthold and formulaic/peddling pace which might work in terms of a solid structure but I can't say watching him he does much in the way that makes me think he was any better than Drew Mcintyre, Masters, Bourne, Henry etc since '09.

I'd say one of his truly great performances ironically enough vs against Michaels @ Wrestlemania 19. But I thought Michaels wasn't far off horrid in that match and really drags it down to the point I'd call it a great Jericho performance but not close to one of Jericho's best matches. I thought he worked the cunning wrestler who'd studied and countered in his head everything Michaels could throw at him perfectly and his work on the back was a smart storytelling device to add sympathy to Michaels and make him look diabolical in the process. Then Michaels has one of his worst post '02 kip ups and blows off the backwork and just renders everything obsolete and really drags the match down a few notches imo.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Jericho pulled a Goldberg (Bad Blood) with Batista at CS 2008. It was all Jericho, tbf, Batista was more of a blemish than an upbringing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Preaching to the choir Yeah1993 vis a vis Jericho. He has good matches in his career certainly but I can't really think of specific great Jericho performances outside of a couple. Not insinuating he was carried in his good matches but more like you that he wasn't usually the guy who I could pinpoint as having heavily contributed to the match turning out so well. FWIW I'd certainly say Eddie/Jericho Fallbrawl '97 could apply to your Fujiwara point in the MOTYC thread vis a vis not needing two men to make a great match. Jericho was fine as the largely vanilla and dry babyface but near enough everything I loved about the match stemmed from Eddie whether it was his control segment or little touches in the beginning like feigning a hair pull to draw the referee to him and then pulling Jericho's hair to escape the hold. Little stuff like that just always impresses me.
> 
> With Jericho eh, I just don't think he really does much in the way I look for in a worker, especially post '08. He hits stuff fine but outside of the HHH LMS match I can't recall specific Jericho performances as a babyface I thought were too great and as a heel he seems content to sit in that resthold and formulaic/peddling pace which might work in terms of a solid structure but I can't say watching him he does much in the way that makes me think he was any better than Drew Mcintyre, Masters, Bourne, Henry etc since '09.
> 
> I'd say one of his truly great performances ironically enough vs against Michaels @ Wrestlemania 19. But I thought Michaels wasn't far off horrid in that match and really drags it down to the point I'd call it a great Jericho performance but not close to one of Jericho's best matches. I thought he worked the cunning wrestler who'd studied and countered in his head everything Michaels could throw at him perfectly and his work on the back was a smart storytelling device to add sympathy to Michaels and make him look diabolical in the process. Then Michaels has one of his worst post '02 kip ups and blows off the backwork and just renders everything obsolete and really drags the match down a few notches imo.


Oh yeah that Fall Brawl match was all Eddie. In some ways I think Jericho contributed more than Sayama in their respective matches, but Eddie was just on career-mode that day. Could have handed him any average-or-better wrestler and he could have had the same match. Not that I expect someone to outwork motherfuckin Eddie Guerrero anyway. It speaks more for Eddie being amazing rather than speaking for Jericho not being great.

Masters and McIntyre in 2010/2011 were pretty easily better than anything Jericho did from 2010-onwards. Ditto Henry in 2011/2012. Fuck I'd take Henry over Jericho career v. career. Seriously. Jericho was NEVER as good as Henry was in 2011, and I'm not convinced Henry's 2008 isn't nearly as good. I need to get on that ECW. I'll try and get a 2000s list together and then watch that. Fuck there's a pretty damn good Henry v. Jericho from _2004_ where Henry outworks Jericho.


Jericho was better than Michaels in every match of there's I can remember. I really, really soured on 2000s Michaels. Actually my favourite Jericho performance could be GAB 2008. Stiff, rough, dickish, and the best match they had together as far as this shit-head is concerned. Jericho was a great apron guy in 5/21/01, too, which is probably his #2 match ever as far as this shithead is concerned. What's better? The Eddie match? I prefer 5/21/01 to the HHH LMS ever since I watched them a month or w/e ago. It's better than anything else he did outside of WWF. Better than the Rock matches and Benoit matches, etc. Yeah, I think it's the #2 Jericho match.


@GOATAntics who I don't feel like quoting )). Jericho v. Batista sounds unappetising but I do want to watch what Jericho was capable of in 2008 outside of working Michaels.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Chris Jericho's in ring ability does get a bit bloated. He is solid and contributes well to the match, has a formula that works, and executes everything he needs to in the best possible way, but nowhere near as outstanding as people like to believe.

Just watched the Duggan/RNR up against MEX/Ladd rematch, and safe to say, I didn't like it as much as I really hoped. Review coming later with a few others. I am not sure what I wrote about it is as critical as I hope.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh yeah that Fall Brawl match was all Eddie. In some ways I think Jericho contributed more than Sayama in their respective matches, but Eddie was just on career-mode that day. Could have handed him any average-or-better wrestler and he could have had the same match. Not that I expect someone to outwork motherfuckin Eddie Guerrero anyway. It speaks more for Eddie being amazing rather than speaking for Jericho not being great.
> 
> Masters and McIntyre in 2010/2011 were pretty easily better than anything Jericho did from 2010-onwards. Ditto Henry in 2011/2012. Fuck I'd take Henry over Jericho career v. career. Seriously. Jericho was NEVER as good as Henry was in 2011, and I'm not convinced Henry's 2008 isn't nearly as good. I need to get on that ECW. I'll try and get a 2000s list together and then watch that. Fuck there's a pretty damn good Henry v. Jericho from _2004_ where Henry outworks Jericho.
> 
> ...


Yeah I wasn't trying to do a disservice to Jericho since he was perfectly fine albeit considerably outworked, but the Fujiwara comment just reminded of my thoughts on Eddie's performance that night and how it tied into your comment about Jericho seldomly being the better guy in his best matches.

I'd agree with everything in that second paragraph tbh. Need to revisit Henry's '08 but based on what I've seen its not something that I'd find hard to believe. I actively found Jericho pretty horrid from '04-05 before he went away, just seemed to be a really dry and uninteresting babyface and struggled to really put in consistent performances. He worked well in the Evolution tags but I'd put that down to a smart structure and the nature of 6 man tags working well to not have him in too long and give him brief shine periods where he could deliver without having to work a long match and make it interesting.

Oh shit, forgot that Jericho performance at GAB '08. Yeah that was a pretty un Jericho like performance in terms of viciousness. Reminds me of fuckin' Edge @ Summerslam '05 throwing shoot headbutts and actually having good offence for one evening. I can't think of any Jericho/Michaels match I'd put as better than the GAB encounter. Very old school territory esque angle in terms of being an angle advancer rather than trying to be a great match.

The 5/21/01 match might be the best match Jericho's been involved in. Royal Rumble '01 vs Benoit is stellar, TLC III on Smackdown in the Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/Vince mini feud is pretty great and the best TLC imo with Benoit putting in a performance reminiscent of MITB I with his selling. Loved the Edge & Christian con-chair-to spot to his injured ribs when he instinctively covers his head. Ermmmm, the Eddie Fallbrawl '97 match is excellent. I enjoy the Eddie & Jericho/Faces of Fear tag from Nitro in '97, that FallBrawl '96 Benoit match is very good albeit not great. The 6/14 Evolution 6 man elimination tag the night after Bad Blood is for my money the best tag in that Raw '04 period. 5/21/01 feels like the best of that bunch though imo. Might have to rewatch the HHH LMS match though in order to verify if it is his best match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Saw a thread entitled "1985 MOTCY" and wanted to add my two cents in here too, Dynamite Kid/Adrian Adonis (11/7) & Terry Funk/Junkyard Dog (9/16) are both AWESOME matches from that year. Rewatches are needed though, So don't take my memory in, as a A++ source. .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

This SD Six project is starting out pretty awesomely. Angle vs Benoit vs Jericho next :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I never noticed this until right now, but on the ECW One Night Stand 2005 DVD there's an alternate commentary by JBL. THAT'S how I'm going to watch the event this time around for my 2005 viewings .

Judgment Day 2005 review & 25-16 of the Cena Top 100 coming today .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Damn, wish I had ECW ONS '05 on DVD to hear that JBL commentary 

Did anyone catch D-Bryan/Ryback from SD? Nothing spectacular but a pretty solid outing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

While I'm watching this, anybody want to throw out some thoughts on One Night Stand 2005?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Tanaka/Mike Awesome is MOTN for the PPV, and it's not even close. Too bad, Tan got stuck with someone as useless as Balls Mahoney, next year. fpalm.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just finished mowing the lawn, got the whole day to myself, Im drive up to Chipotle get a burrito, enjoy some of this weather and watch some WRASSLIN


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> While I'm watching this, anybody want to throw out some thoughts on One Night Stand 2005?


Crazy crowd tanaka/awesome was MOTN disappointed in eddie/benoit but they go like 10 mins only I think ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> While I'm watching this, anybody want to throw out some thoughts on One Night Stand 2005?


No starz, just a fun show to watch. Coincidentally, it has an Eddie/Benoit match and the last match I got done with is their Armageddon 02 match.

AWESOME thing that was plus Eddie doing the Rolling Germans. :mark:


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Just watched Ryback vs. Bryan from last night's SmackDown. Very good TV match and deserves all the praise backstage as it can get. Bryan's spirited babyface performance is on point as usual, not to mention displays great ring psychology working on Ryback's left leg with the kicks, which I thought the latter sold pretty well. Bryan's undoubtedly the best ring worker on the current roster and has always worked exceptionally well with anyone from small guys to big guys. He's carried practically every opponent he's faced in the WWE to their best singles matches. He was Miz's best match at Night of Champions '10, Ziggler's best match at Bragging Rights '10, DiBiase's best match at Survivior Series '10, Cara's best match on SmackDown 5/22/13, Barrett's best match at SummerSlam '11, Del Rio's best match on SmackDown 8/19/11, and Sheamus' best match at Extreme Rules '12. So it comes as no surprise to me that he was also indeed Ryback's best match. ★★★1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ I agree with most although miz is debatable with the FCA match with JOMO


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

About the Benoit/Eddie ONS 05 match, were they legit pissed at each other or something? It seemed that way to me. 

On a side-note, someone posted something about Ricardo Rodriguez being better than Del Rio because he takes better bumps than him. I lost faith in the WWE section. :lol


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

For some reason ONS 2005 never struck me as a great show. The long exchanges between the ECW and WWE guys kind of took away from the show to me. Most of the matches on the card were under 10 minutes as well. Mike Awesome vs. Tanaka is the only incredible match on the show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Smackdown Six Project*

*Kurt Angle vs. Edge
Smackdown 12/23/1999*
This project starts with a Singles Match between, ironically, the two very men who spawned the Smackdown Six "cool" back in their amazing match from Backlash 2002. Angle and Edge always had nice chemistry together, and this was their very 1st one on one match ever. It was given 4 minutes, and they were really fun 4 minutes at that. Of course, Angle was never an amazing psychologist, and in 1999 he was still (VERY) green on the concept of "selling". In another words, even though his moves in this match were nice, Edge essentially carried this thing. It was decent and very fun overall, but nothing that you wouldn't see between two capable guys with given time on Raw today.
***1/4*

*Edge & Christian vs. Kurt Angle & Steve Blackman
Smackdown 1/11/2000*
The 1st Smackdown Six match of the New Millenium featured the original members, Angle and Edge, in Tag Team competition. This was part of a parallel storyline that involved a love-hate relationship between Angle and Blackman, as well as the whole "Edge is marrying Val Venis' sister" thing. The Angle/Edge interactions in this match were kept to a minimum. As a matter of fact, I don't even recall them at all. It was mostly Edge vs. Blackman and Christian vs. Angle. Not that either were bad, as a matter of fact on paper both do sound like tremendous potential, but in this case it didn't pay off very well. This was a 6 minute match, and again fun, but it was quite sloppy too. Recommendation to skip here, Tag fans.
****

*Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
Smackdown 3/23/2000*
The 1st ever meeting between these two, and the title of a feud that really divides the wrestling universe. There are those that don't buy the submission & Suplex overkill that were their matches, whereas others simply fall into the grace of their in-ring crispness and shenanigans. This match, at around 6 minutes, did feature though one of the best examples of "selling" you'll ever see in a Benoit/Angle match. Like, seriously. Even though there was some too many Suplexes, and the ending was cheap, it was still a solid match with crisp enough wrestling to make it enjoyable. While both of these guys had tremendous chemistry, together they reunited into submission spotfests, and here it really differed from that case - maybe for the fact that Angle wasn't using the Ankle Lock here. Is it just me or he was better off without it? Oh, and Angle's pre-match promo is delicious.
***1/4*

*Kurt Angle (c) vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho
Two Fall Triple Threat Match for the Intercontinental & European Championships
WrestleMania 16*
Beforehand, I really hope I'm not the only one who believes that Jericho is the REAL Smackdown Sixth, not Chavo Guerrero. With that said, here's where business really picks up. The WWE themselves admit that this is one of their most underrated matches ever. Well, they _used_ to, since nowadays for Vince and the WWE, everything (bar one or two things) that has Benoit's name slapped in it is nothing more than a wrestling purist fantasy. However, that doesn't change the fact that he existed and that he put on some awesome performances. This Two Fall Triple Threat is a shy example, as there was some amazing, crisp and neat wrestling that made this really look like a legit Triple Threat. There were no dull moments, the psychology was alright for an Angle/Benoit match, and the premise and storytelling was more than there. One thing that did boggle me though was the fact that I felt this was essentially the same old Angle/Benoit match, same old Suplex throwin', injury ignorin' affair... only without the submission overkill and WITH Jericho in there to even out something else. And with the exception of all Y2J did, the crowd didn't care AT ALL about what was going on. Still, this was pretty sweet. I always hated WrestleMania 16, but other than the Triangle Ladder Match, this is the only WrestleMania-worthy thing in all of it.
****3/4*

*Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & Hardcore Holly
WWF Tag Team Championship
Smackdown 4/6/2000*
Oh yes, back when Hardcore Holly wasn't a complete sucker inside the ring. After the success in the Triangle Ladder Match, E&C were set to defend gold against Angle & Hardcore Holly here, and I'll admit it wasn't too bad. I didn't care much for it, but I'll admit that it was alright for what it was. The action was kept at a solid pace, and Edge's selling was utterly brilliant here. Because this is for the Smackdown Six project, what matters are the interactions of Angle and Edge, which are nothing more than average here. The ending part, with the hot tag to Christian and the final moments were exciting as well, and thankfully Angle didn't go overboard with Suplexes and all that crap. Wrestling was fine here. But that being said, it's up to you really caring about it to make it seem better than it actually is.
***1/4*

*Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & The Big Show
WWF Tag Team Championship
Smackdown 4/13/2000*
One week later, one different partner more. It cut about 4 minutes off the E&C vs. Angle & Holly match, and I cared 4 times more about it. Perhaps for the fact that Big Show is A LOT of times better than Hardcore Holly. For a short little match with a cheap countout finish, this was tons, tons of fun. Everybody play their roles awesomely well (including Edge and Angle obviously), the wrestling is kept fresh and entertaining, and even though the ending was cheap, it built up the Angle/Show match at Backlash that year just about perfectly. Really nice stuff.
***3/4*

*Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kurt Angle
Intercontinental Championship
Smackdown 4/20/2000*
Angle was in 2000 what Cena is today: the man of a 1000 title shots. Only that Angle admitted he was a "hero" too, if ya know what I mean. Anyways, look up for the 3/23 match between these two, cut off 2 or 3 minutes off it, replace Jericho with Show for who applies the DQ finish shenanigans, and you got this match. Again, fine match for what it was. It was very short so it was kept at a brutally fast pace, and thus it was really fun of a technical wrestling match, but it kinda hurts the fact that I counted 8 suplexes - yes, EIGHT suplexes - in a match that barely scratched the 4 minute barrier. Good God almighty, as JR would say. I'm not sure what can I say - if these two together go both into full retard mode whenever they wrestle each other, or that it's simply Benoit who found himself like that everytime he wrestled Angle. I guess it's the latter, because Eddie fucking Guerrero and Shawn fucking Michaels had the same issue.
***1/2*

*Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
Insurrextion 2000*
This was typical Angle/Benoit PPV stuff - the 1st half of the match is really good, then by the end it loses track of itself. JR and Lawler talked on how Benoit had suffered a "cracked eye bone" at the hands of Jericho on Smackdown before this show, which explains the vicious eye work by Angle at the beggining of the match. The brawling portions followed by Angle's brute attacks on the eye and Benoit's brilliant selling made for a very enjoyable first half of this match, followed by a nice crowd. Eventually though, it REALLY loses itself. A couple Suplexes thrown, the ignoring of the eyework, the cheap trash talk... it just felt too bah for me. And then, FUCKING then, Benoit goes for his Diving Headbutt, ignoring completely the eyework. He missed, but still. Angle tried to recover some of that work, but the damage to my patience had already been done. Really, this match was alright, and if you ignore COMPELTELY the psychology stuff it's very good, but I don't ignore it and I say that, no matter how good everything before was, that ending portion really pissed me off.
*****

*CURRENT LISTINGS:*
*Kurt Angle (c) vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho, WrestleMania 16 (***3/4)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2000 (***)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & The Big Show, Smackdown 4/13/2000 (**3/4)
Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kurt Angle, Smackdown 4/20/2000 (**1/2)
Kurt Angle vs. Edge, Smackdown 12/23/1999 (**1/4)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Smackdown 3/23/2000 (**1/4)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & Hardcore Holly, Smackdown 4/6/2000 (**1/4)
Edge & Christian vs. Kurt Angle & Steve Blackman, Smackdown 1/11/2000 (**)*​


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Awesome start ATF, looking forward to reading along.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

just saw this GIF in the 'funny pictures' thread.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great start, ATF. That's a bit too much for my lazy ass to read but some of these matches sound pretty interesting.

And in response to the gif above, I think "handsome" Randy Orton's selling > Ziggler's.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> just saw this GIF in the 'funny pictures' thread.


Awesome sell by Orton. Love that match. (Y)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Orton's selling is so (Y). If i recall, He flopped like a ragdoll when Foley hit him with a steel pan in their Backlash match, It made the shot seem all that sickening. Anyone have a GIF of that?


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What did you guys think of Flair Vs Michaels (WM 24)?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^ Need to go back and check that match. It wasn't match of the night (that went to Edge/Taker), but there was certainly a ton of emotion. 

Starting the Elimination Chamber anthology in a bit, then throwing out some rankings to those matches. 

Great read on the Smackdown Six, ATF.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Flair/Michaels is pretty awesome IMO. Good match with a ton of emotion involved. THE FEELS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did I see someone rate the triple threat from WM 2000 at ***3/4? I'm not one for drugs but... I want some of whatever you smoked .

Just got No Mercy and NWO 08 in the post today... and a Bluray that will be part of a competition on my site at some point. Gonna watch HENRY/HARDY from NM later. Was HHH/Jericho/Matt Hardy from SD 3rd October 2008 any good? The champion vs champion vs champion match? Its a special feature on the NM DVD is all.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Love Flair/Michaels

So much emotion and they really made you believe Flair was coming out on top, perfect example of why Flair was so good

Love Mania 24 in general to be honest, my second favourite behind 17


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton's best bumps are when he takes knock-out strikes such as the Sweet Chin Music and the KO Punch. Not only is he great at taking bumps, but he is seriously underrated at selling. With all that said, it's still really weird how he just cannot work as a face. The one year where I thought he wrestled well as a face (2011), he really didn't wrestle like a face at all.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> What did you guys think of Flair Vs Michaels (WM 24)?


A wonderful match with a damn-near beautiful finish. ★★★★1/4.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Did I see someone rate the triple threat from WM 2000 at ***3/4? I'm not one for drugs but... I want some of whatever you smoked .
> 
> Just got No Mercy and NWO 08 in the post today... and a Bluray that will be part of a competition on my site at some point. Gonna watch HENRY/HARDY from NM later. *Was HHH/Jericho/Matt Hardy from SD 3rd October 2008 any good? The champion vs champion vs champion match?* Its a special feature on the NM DVD is all.


I remember it being fun. Worth a watch.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The HHH/Matt/Jericho match is a solid TV bout for sure. Matt holds his own throughout, too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Did I see someone rate the triple threat from WM 2000 at ***3/4? I'm not one for drugs but... I want some of whatever you smoked .
> 
> Just got No Mercy and NWO 08 in the post today... and a Bluray that will be part of a competition on my site at some point. Gonna watch HENRY/HARDY from NM later. Was HHH/Jericho/Matt Hardy from SD 3rd October 2008 any good? The champion vs champion vs champion match? Its a special feature on the NM DVD is all.


*coughcough*...coming from the same guy who gave Angle/Lesnar SSlam the full 5. It's amazing but not THAT amazing, about ****1/2. And that drug's called OPINION :cool2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1/2* isn't much of a difference though is it . You're about *** higher from all the WM 2000 triple threat deserves .


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Hogan/Rock or MichaelsFlair?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Rewatched Flair/Michaels. ****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> 1/2* isn't much of a difference though is it . You're about *** higher from all the WM 2000 triple threat deserves .


Did you hate it really that much? Psychology wise Angle sucked but Benoit and Jericho were game I'd say.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thought it was utter shite. Nobody was good in it. Nobody. Match seemed to consist of nothing but random suplexes and for some reason a bunch of back breakers. I used to love it, but on last watch for my reviews it was just terrible.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just bought the Best of In Your House Blu Ray. About to watch the Final Four match for the first time ever. Heard good things about this. :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Hogan/Rock or MichaelsFlair?


HBK/Flair easily IMO. Hogan/Rock is all about the crowd and not much else.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Thought it was utter shite. Nobody was good in it. Nobody. Match seemed to consist of nothing but random suplexes and for some reason a bunch of back breakers. I used to love it, but on last watch for my reviews it was just terrible.


Well comparing it to a typical Angloit match, it was far better than I thought it would be. Y2J kept the crowd alive, psychology was 2/3 good, there were some really cool moments too. I mean, between this and Angloit RR 03, I think I'll take this.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Regal vs. Kassius NXT *(****)* - Great stiff contest, accompanied with the rarely used Teacher/Student storyline.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Hogan/Rock or MichaelsFlair?





AlienBountyHunter said:


> HBK/Flair easily IMO. Hogan/Rock is all about the crowd and not much else.


What Alien said. 

Hogan vs Rock is more of a "HOLY SHIT THESE TWO ARE FACING EACH OTHER!!!" type of match whereas Flair and Michaels is all about the in ring spectacle of it which is why it's pretty hard to compare between the two.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Prefer Hogan/Rock. I don't feel the "emotion" of Flair/HBK at all. It might be because Flair had already made his retirement irrelevant when I finally watched the match but that's just how it is. Hogan/Rock is one of these rare epic encounters that we only get once in a blue moon.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HBK/Flair - *****
Hogan/Rock - ***

I wasn't a huge fan of Rock/Hogan. I liked it when it happened but it never held up for me. HBK/Flair is one of my favorite matches ever. I think with most people it's the other way around.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Shit, haven't posted in this thread for ages. Came here to see who saw the Bryan/Ryback match without having to venture into the Smackdown section. Really great tv match. Bryan is THE MAN.

Rock/Hoagn is enjoyable because the crowd is literally amazing. Flair/HBK is easily the better match imo. Flair honestly looked really good in it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I might be the only one, who takes Flair/HBK at Bad Blood 2003 over their WM bout. I literally :mark: out for that table spot.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^no your not my friend I do too slightly, I may overrate both their matches alot more than most cuz I :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark: for both, I loved the emotion in their wm 24 match


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

HBK/Flair WM24 is still better than Rock/Hogan. That match is All smoke, no steak. All butter, no bread. All crowd, no wrasslin'.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Watch the Hogan/Rock match on mute. Or even with just your average crowd, and it's awhole other story. The crowd was epic, though. No doubt about that.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The ONLY better thing Hogan/Rock had over HBK/Flair was atmosphere. That was probably the greatest atmosphere of all time. Just watch when Hogan hits the leg drop. The count was insane.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ShowStopper '97 said:


> Watch the Hogan/Rock match on mute. Or even with just your average crowd, and it's awhole other story. The crowd was epic, though. No doubt that.


conversely you watch HBK/flair and its a different story, epic and emotional " I love you" :lmao:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Is this an unpopular opinion? I mean outside of those who think Cena only uses two moves and is a virus?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not gonna deny the bulk of that. Even with myself being pro-Jericho most of the time. Only ones I'm more on the fence about was the Triple H Last Man Standing match. _(my memory shows Jericho's babyface work enticed me more than usual)_ Wait, that's the only one. No, I thought Jericho and Juvi were neck and neck. Jericho's character and all helped. Oh and duh _(for me)_ vs Benoit at Royal Rumble was dead even. Both those men were brilliant that night. I hold that ladder match above A LOT of things though. I'd say the match vs Bourne at Fatal Four Way Jericho proved his worth, yet it was a total Bourne show. That's Jericho's benefit when you look at it. Consistent worker, can add to the matches in a positive fashion more often than not, & does what he should. Nothing wrong with having a career like that. Not everyone is going to be Bryan Danielson.

I dig Jericho vs Goldberg. A lot. My two cents. 

Dunno about a FULL repackage, as much as a lead into on his own. He doesn't need to be a lackey at all; he's making the most of it right now though. A solid fit for NXT despite knowing he can be soooooo much more. I'll remain hopeful he'll get his due as a beast. Lord knows he can tear through the ranks. Son of a. The squash matches that could be seen on TV would be wonderful. Let him get a hold of Justin Gabriel. I'll dig that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

19:30 - 20:14 is the kind of shit dreams are made of


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock vs Hogan is the tops.

I'll always love it. So it isn't a beauty of workrate fluidity. Who in their right mind thought it would have been? The match it intended to be was gold. Their rematch on the other hand...

Crap on that. I'll assist.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Consistent worker, can add to the matches in a positive fashion more often than not, & does what he should. Nothing wrong with having a career like that. Not everyone is going to be Bryan Danielson.


Oh yeah definitely. It really only looks like I bash Jericho because he has so much of a fan base that think he's either a really great wrestler or an all time great wrestler. If everyone called him total garbage rubbish shit I'd be defending him and pointing out things he actually does well (since he isn't total garbage rubbish shit). And he does things well, I kinda just don't think he does them as well as a lot of other guys.


I need to watch Rock/Hogan again to decide whether I like it more than Michaels/Flair. Michaels/Flair held up pretty well on re-watch last (this?) year. Not a great match to me any more, but if I still liked the match I consider that "holding up well".


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Who do you guys prefer as a worker; Jericho or Edge?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jericho


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jericho by three universes. I prefer Kurt Angle to Edge.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Jericho.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Who do you guys prefer as a worker; Jericho or Edge?


Jericho.

Never saw what others seen in Edge in terms of ring work.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Definitely prefer Jericho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh yeah definitely. It really only looks like I bash Jericho because he has so much of a fan base that think he's either a really great wrestler or an all time great wrestler. If everyone called him total garbage rubbish shit I'd be defending him and pointing out things he actually does well (since he isn't total garbage rubbish shit). And he does things well, I kinda just don't think he does them as well as a lot of other guys.
> 
> 
> I need to watch Rock/Hogan again to decide whether I like it more than Michaels/Flair. Michaels/Flair held up pretty well on re-watch last (this?) year. Not a great match to me any more, but if I still liked the match I consider that "holding up well".


We're in the exact same boat here on Jericho by the looks of it. Pardon the overrating he does get; there isn't much to claim in a negative light. I guess it's no different than when Triple H gets considered as a "all time great" thanks to the limelight/successes of WWE behind him.

I know I've watched Rock vs Hogan way more. Dunno if that means the same as I prefer it over Flair vs Michaels. Been a bit since I last checked that out.

Jericho or Edge question: Jericho demolishes Edge.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Edge is one of the most overrated workers ever, or at least he was on here at one point. I gotta admit I bought into the idea of him being a special talent and a great in-ring guy at one point myself but that was years ago back when I would've laughed at someone for calling Mark Henry better than Edge. Now my tastes and opinions on pro wrestling have changed (I like to think they've matured) and I hold Edge in a much lower regard than I once did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I used to dig Edge. Like from his WWF career start until about...2007. Got bored of his heel work that year and my opinion on his has been lowered since. Doesn't mean he hasn't had a good match (or great in the case vs Undertaker) post the opinion shift. He's simply not a great, really good, or special talent in the slightest. Congrats to him for his career though. If I had a chance to be in his position; I'd take it too.

His 2002 was pretty rad iirc. From the Angle feud standpoint it was. Oh, duh, vs Regal too.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Why does everyone on here claim edge as really overrated? He's not claimed to be one of the GOATS or anything. He had a good solid gimmick (Rated R superstar), Decent mic worker, put on entertaining matches, was never really shoved down our throats. I just don't understand how he's so overrated. 

Do people on here think he's so overrated because he only does well in gimmick matches? Well if that's the case Mick Foley and HHH are overrated as well.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rated R Edge was fucking awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love Henry, but I just have a hard time calling him an elite worker, much less a great one. HoP Henry is so good at playing the monster heel and I love his trash talking, but he does have a tendency of being very sluggish and hard to watch at times (understandable considering his size). Of course, he is still a special talent, but I do think that ever since he became an IWC favorite, people seem to have ignored some of his flaws that they otherwise point out in other workers.

Do you guys consider 2007 Cena to be better than 2000-2001 HHH? Both were at their respective peaks during those times, and they were easily the best wrestlers in the entire company as well. I really do think the Cena/HHH debate is an interesting one to have.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Why does everyone on here claim edge as overrated? He's not claimed to be one of the GOATS or anything. He had a good solid gimmick (Rated R superstar), Decent mic worker, was never shoved down our throats. I just don't understand how he's so overrated.
> 
> Do people on here think he's so overrated because he only does well in gimmick matches? Well if that's the case Mick Foley and HHH are overrated as well.


Because from what I gather the vast majority of the IWC believed Edge to be a very good/great worker (in-ring) which he quite frankly wasn't.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Because from what I gather the vast majority of the IWC believed Edge to be a very good/great worker (in-ring) which he quite frankly wasn't.




I see a lot more hate for edge than love. I liked a good amount of his matches/fueds. Arguably cenas biggest rival. He had some great matches: 

All TLC tag matches were great
Edge/Cena TLC
Edge/Taker WM
Edge/Taker HIAC
Edge/Taker TLC
Edge/Foley WM
Edge/Orton Vengeance
Edge/Foley vs Funk/Dreamer ONS
Edge/Hardy ER


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Why does everyone on here claim edge as really overrated? He's not claimed to be one of the GOATS or anything. He had a good solid gimmick (Rated R superstar), Decent mic worker, put on entertaining matches, was never really shoved down our throats. I just don't understand how he's so overrated.
> 
> Do people on here think he's so overrated because he only does well in gimmick matches? Well if that's the case Mick Foley and HHH are overrated as well.


b/c when people are making claims that he's "great" or "one of the greatest ever" it's pushing a boundary further than XPW tried to do. It's no different than the Jericho mentality that has been spoken about. Although Jericho can actually hold his own more than Edge can.

Edge doesn't even do as well in gimmick matches like some claim either. Outside of the Mick Foley match & what two blow offs vs Angle & Taker all of his other gimmick matches were either multi-man affairs or bad. Matt Hardy matches don't matter. Those were great b/c of their general chemistry at the time. No b/c it was an added height via whatever stip got placed next to it.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I love Henry, but I just have a hard time calling him an elite worker, much less a great one. HoP Henry is so good at playing the monster heel and I love his trash talking, but he does have a tendency of being very sluggish and hard to watch at times (understandable considering his size). Of course, he is still a special talent, but I do think that ever since he became an IWC favorite, people seem to have ignored some of his flaws that they otherwise point out in other workers.
> 
> Do you guys consider 2007 Cena to be better than 2000-2001 HHH? Both were at their respective peaks during those times, and they were easily the best wrestlers in the entire company as well. I really do think the Cena/HHH debate is an interesting one to have.


Henry has been awesome for a while in my eyes. Ever since he came back to Smackdown in late '05/early '06. I don't see the sluggish nature much. He's large; yeah. Doesn't mean he's necessarily slow or sluggish. I love a lot of big men in the world of wrestling. His talents when compared in that field are perfectly fine. I'm like the only guy in the world who liked Henry vs Ryback from WrestleMania too for example. I'm not saying he's perfect b/c very few are. But he's plenty great or elite when it gets tagged on him.

Well Cena '07 obviously has '01 Trips beat. Only great match I recall Trips having that year before getting injured was the match he GOT injured in. 2000 Trips was great. Classic heel work when you kind of grasp the elements surrounding him and it's no surprise when it is regarded as his best career point. If I'm going match by match from Trips '00 vs Cena '07...hmm. Part of me wants to say Trips on the big matches since Cena's took a dip following the Lashley match and Trips was upped by the time the Summer/Fall hit (vs Jericho, Rock & Angle, vs Benoit) I think Cena may have had some matches on TV that could have aided him too. See, I can't formulate a clear cut answer as it is quite close for me. Character wise I'd probably have to say Trips. Cena's Last Man Standing vs Umaga has just about every match both had from both years beat so yeah.  

Read that entire mess of a paragraph and you'll be mad once you realize I remained indecisive.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I see a lot more hate for edge than love. I liked a good amount of his matches/fueds. Arguably cenas biggest rival. He had some great matches:
> 
> All TLC tag matches were great
> Edge/Cena TLC
> ...


Good matches, yes. 

One of the best? Nah.

Plus, I've always felt his best buddy was better in every way.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I wonder why people call Edge overrated in the ring, when I never see people rave about his in-ring work to begin with, or give him much of any credit at all outside of him being a "gimmick worker"... if that's any credit? Whether that's true or not, I have yet to see enough people saying it to call him "overrated". And it's not just now, it's been like this for years, since 08 at least.

As far as Edge's best (singles) matches go:

(****1/2)
1) vs. Taker SS 2008
(****1/4)
2) vs. Taker WM24
3) vs. Foley WM22
(****)
4) vs. Cena BL 2009
5) vs. Matt Hardy Unforgiven 2005
6) vs. Cena Unforgiven 2006
7) vs. Orton Raw after BL 07
8) vs. Ziggler RR 2011
9) vs. RVD Vengeance 2006
10) vs. Angle JD 2002


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> b/c when people are making claims that he's "great" or "one of the greatest ever" it's pushing a boundary further than XPW tried to do. It's no different than the Jericho mentality that has been spoken about. Although Jericho can actually hold his own more than Edge can.
> 
> Edge doesn't even do as well in gimmick matches like some claim either. Outside of the Mick Foley match & what two blow offs vs Angle & Taker all of his other gimmick matches were either multi-man affairs or bad. Matt Hardy matches don't matter. Those were great b/c of their general chemistry at the time. No b/c it was an added height via whatever stip got placed next to it.
> 
> ...




Edge/Cena TLC says hello. Was definitely they're best match. And you clearly haven't seen both his street fights with HBK on raw. Very underrated.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Edge TLC is horrible. Last time I told you this you got all butthurt. 

Is this the road we're headed again?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I see a lot more hate for edge than love. I liked a good amount of his matches/fueds. Arguably cenas biggest rival. He had some great matches:
> 
> All TLC tag matches were great
> Edge/Cena TLC
> ...


Maybe it's more hate than love nowadays. If that's the case he isn't overrated but at one point he was adored by the IWC.

Yeah he had a lot of good and great matches. I don't have a problem with anyone saying he was good, I think that myself, or at least he was good over periods of his career, but he was rarely the driving force in his great matches and a lot of Edge matches people consider to be great I don't think are all that good (as evidenced by that list you just posted).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Cena vs Edge TLC is horrible. Last time I told you this you got all butthurt.
> 
> Is this the road we're headed again?




matter of opinion man. I really enjoyed it


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge used to be insanely loved by the IWC, but never for his in-ring work as I recall. Mostly for his promo work and mainly the Rated R gimmick. Plus in 05-06 he was an upcoming and eventually the top heel, so yeah... of course the IWC was going to love that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> matter of opinion man. I really enjoyed it


Well good. b/c last time you didn't abide by said principle and ended the discussion after I said it.

And I don't enjoy it. That's all there is to it here.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Edge/Cena LMS is where it's at. I love that match after overlooking it and not seeing anything from Backlash '09 until like '11.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Maybe I should've just said Edge wasn't a great worker instead of calling him overrated, either way my point remains.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I have to give edge/cena LMS a rewatch. Actually saw backlash 09 at fye a couple weeks ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

that match went down SO much when I watched it earlier this year. </3

It seems like it's only SummerSlam '06 for me when it comes to their chemistry.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I loved Edge/Cena LMS but I haven't seen it in years. No idea how it would hold up. Not very interested in finding out either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Contrived/forced WWE epic sort of stuff. I didn't even have fun with it except with the FU spot onto the planted fans.

Both would have much better matches the next PPV around.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Cesaro Vs Kofi from Main event is a **** star match Faaaack Cesaro's offense is awesome everyone needs to check it out might be the best match Kofi has ever had


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah Cesero was absolutely fantastic in that match. It was literally all him. Can't remember the last time I watched a match that was so good just because of one person. Probably something with Bryan like The Miz matches.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> I'm like the only guy in the world who liked Henry vs Ryback from WrestleMania too for example.


Not true. I thought that match was decent for what it was. Liked the opening couple of minutes when both guys were being fairly stiff with the strikes/clotheslines/slams. The finish certainly made sense seeing as Henry had worn down Ryback's...back...with the bear hug. Yeah it's a dull hold but it worked in that instance. I certainly enjoyed that match far more than the awkward Jericho/Fandango (dull/overextended control period from Jericho, sloppy finish) contest and Rock/Cena II (no explanations needed) anyway. Opinions, innit.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Yup Cesaro might be the best wrestler in the WWE right now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Not true. I thought that match was decent for what it was. Liked the opening couple of minutes when both guys were being fairly stiff with the strikes/clotheslines/slams. The finish certainly made sense seeing as Henry had worn down Ryback's...back...with the bear hug. Yeah it's a dull hold but it worked in that instance. I certainly enjoyed that match far more than the awkward Jericho/Fandango (dull/overextended control period from Jericho, sloppy finish) contest and Rock/Cena II (no explanations needed) anyway. Opinions, innit.


:hb

I liked Jericho vs Fandago too. Oh no. Did I ruin the moment?


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> :hb
> 
> I liked Jericho vs Fandago too. Oh no. Did I ruin the moment?


Nah, I know of plenty of people who enjoyed that match. I got what they were doing with the whole "fandango can't wrestle so has to avoid it and fluke a victory" schtick, but it did nothing for me personally. Really boring because of the lack of Fandango involvement and the average by the numbers Jericho offense. If a match that is filled with bear hugs comes across as more interesting in comparison then it must have been a bit dull, in my opinion anyway. A sloppy finish shouldn't take away from an overall match but you have to admit it was terribly sloppy. Well, you don't have to, I'm not forcing a gun to your head, I reserve that for Shep when he fucks my footy team over by jinxing us :side:


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Got a chance to finally see Regal/Ohno and I give it ***1/2. Very good match from both which wasn't surprising at all. Really liked the creative work on the fingers of Ohno by Regal.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting the Elimination Chamber anthology. Some stars first, top 5 rankings to come later.

Survivor Series 2002 - ****1/4
Summerslam 2003 - ***1/4
New Years Revolution - ****1/2


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Yea Regal vs Ohno was awesome its a **** star match IMO


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched Bryan/Ryback and it was good shit, but I didn't think it was anywhere near the match or one man show that Cesaro/Kofi was. The Thesz press > half crab reversal was badass but I didn't think anything in the match was as cool as Cesaro's one leg swing, apron suplerplex, giant LEG DOUBLE STOMP, catching a kick and quickly turning it against Kofi, etc. Still, it's the kind of match that makes you wonder what more the WWE powers that be want from Bryan. 



xdoomsayerx said:


> Why does everyone on here claim edge as really overrated? He's not claimed to be one of the GOATS or anything. He had a good solid gimmick (Rated R superstar), Decent mic worker, put on entertaining matches, was never really shoved down our throats. I just don't understand how he's so overrated.



He's called a GOATC by a lot of people, maybe not in this thread, but they're out there. I mean I don't even think Edge is 'very good' and most people do so in that case I'd still say he's overrated. I wouldn't say he put on entertaining matches, either. He was obviously capable of it, but not consistently at all. I would call being a ten time over whatever champions being shoved down our throats as well, and more often than not I hate his main event stuff.

And I absolutely think HHH is overrated. But some think he's the worst human being to ever exist, so it's a really odd mixed bag with him. I'd take him over Edge.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Do you guys consider 2007 Cena to be better than 2000-2001 HHH?


Definitely.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Edge is my all time favorite but people not liking him doesn't bother me. I dislike people that are generally loved like Flair or Bret.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I love Henry, but I just have a hard time calling him an elite worker, much less a great one. HoP Henry is so good at playing the monster heel and I love his trash talking, but he does have a tendency of being very sluggish and hard to watch at times (understandable considering his size). Of course, he is still a special talent, but I do think that ever since he became an IWC favorite, people seem to have ignored some of his flaws that they otherwise point out in other workers.
> 
> *Do you guys* *consider 2007 Cena to be better than 2000*-2001 HHH? Both were at their respective peaks during those times, and they were easily the best wrestlers in the entire company as well. I really do think the Cena/HHH debate is an interesting one to have.


No, HHH was gold, in 2000.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Brandenthesmark said:


> Yup Cesaro might be the best wrestler in the WWE right now


I agree. Him, Daniel Bryan, and Del Rio have been on a roll lately. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Do you guys consider 2007 Cena to be better than 2000-2001 HHH?


Yup. Totally.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Triple H in 2000 is one of the best WWF/E heel runs in company history and this was one of the best years in company history. He was the primary reason I tuned into Raw and Smackdown that year. And I would never even consider Triple H one of my favorites of all time. but I have to give the guy credit where it's due. Cena was great in 2007, too. He had some really terrific matches that year. Character-wise, it's obviously not a close call between those two years. Match quality wise, it is much closer.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH 2000 > Cena 2007. On PPV at least. Can't say I remember much of either guy's TV work outside of a handful of matches.



THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Nah, I know of plenty of people who enjoyed that match. I got what they were doing with the whole "fandango can't wrestle so has to avoid it and fluke a victory" schtick, but it did nothing for me personally. Really boring because of the lack of Fandango involvement and the average by the numbers Jericho offense. If a match that is filled with bear hugs comes across as more interesting in comparison then it must have been a bit dull, in my opinion anyway. A sloppy finish shouldn't take away from an overall match but you have to admit it was terribly sloppy. Well, you don't have to, I'm not forcing a gun to your head, I reserve that for Shep when he fucks my footy team over by jinxing us :side:


Basically my thoughts on Jericho/Fandango. Thought it was alright but as you said, the story they told did nothing for me. 

Ryback/Henry could've been good but it wasn't.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Fandango said:


> 19:30 - 20:14 is the kind of shit dreams are made of


Nightmares are a type of dream, yes.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Do you guys consider 2007 Cena to be better than 2000-2001 HHH?


I'd give PPV matches to Triple H, and TV matches to Cena. For the life of me, I can't remember a single match that Triple H had on TV in that time period, other than the PowerTrip vs. Jericho/Benoit tag, and that match where he loses the Intercontinental Title to Hardy, which I should add is only memorable because of Triple H's reaction to losing. That being said, he had some *amazing* matches on PPV in that period. The matches with Foley are both classics, his match with Benoit is awesome, Three Stages of Hell with Austin is brutal, and the Last Man Standing with Jericho is probably one of my favourite matches ever, if not my favourite.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena On PPV in 2007

vs. Umaga - NYR 2007 *(***1/4)*
vs. Umaga - RR 2007 *(****3/4)*
& HBK vs. Taker & Batista - NWO *(****)*
vs. HBK - WM23 *(****)*
vs. Orton vs. Edge vs. HBK - BL *(****1/4)*
vs. The Great Khali - JD *(***)*
vs. The Great Khali - ONS *(**)*
vs. Bobby Lashley - GAB *(****1/4)*
vs. Orton - SS *(***3/4)*
vs. Orton - UF *(**)*

Trips on PPV in 2000

vs. Foley - RR *(*****)*
vs. Foley - NWO *(****1/2)*
vs. Rock vs. Foley vs. Big Show - WM16 *(***)*
vs. Rock - BL *(***3/4)*
vs. Rock - JD *(****1/4)*
& Vince, Shane vs. Rock, Taker & Kane - KOTR *(**)*
vs. Jericho - FL *(****1/2)*
vs. Rock vs. Angle - SS *(***1/4)*
vs. Angle - UF *(***1/2)*
vs. Benoit - NM *(****1/4)*
vs. Austin - SS* (**1/2)*
Armageddon 6 Man HIAC *(****)*

Overall, I would give to Trips cause the matches he had were simply better, but Cena was far more consistent and even with under average workers.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I might make a project of Hunter's 2000. Been a while since I've seen any of his matches from that year and I'm interested to see what he produced on TV.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

HHH in 2000 shits on anything Cena has ever done. The 2000 heel run is the greatest of all time.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

:lmao @ Big Show/Cena from JD being better than the LMS match, or even the craptastic Edge/Hardy match for that matter.

Also, I've never heard anyone say Edge was a great worker, but he portrayed his character really well and has some of the greatest promos in the history of wrestling to his name. (I'm looking at "I hate you, John")


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> :lmao @ Big Show/Cena from JD being better than the LMS match, or *even the craptastic Edge/Hardy match* for that matter.
> 
> Also, I've never heard anyone say Edge was a great worker, but he portrayed his character really well and has some of the greatest promos in the history of wrestling to his name. (I'm looking at "I hate you, John")


WHAT!!!? Fantastic, more like it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think Edge portrays his characters really well at all. Whenever he starts acting like a "psycho" and tugging at his hair and stretching his eyes and putting his bottom row of teeth forward I hope nobody comes in into the room because it's embarrassing to watch. I'd rather be caught checking myself for lumps (yeah, checking myself for lumps.....that's what it is :side. I don't really like nor dislike his promos.


HHH has a pretty god run on TV from January to June in 2000. Two good Jericho matches, fun matches with Kane and Rikishi, HHH/Benoit v. Rock/Jericho, HHH/Rock/Angle, he was in that amazing Texas ten man even if he did pretty much nothing in it, etc.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Edge/Foley before SummerSlam 08
Edge/Cena Cutting Edge SD 09

are two of the GOATs


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993, did you watch Wrestlemania 29?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Rewatched Trips vs. Taker WM27, and it still holds up at ***** and as one of my favorite WM matches, ever. People can continually bash the match as they plea, saying it was a finisher fest and the dead time was too much, but the storytelling, dramatic moments and atmospheric tone were of magnificent quality. That being said, I still don't get members when they say there wasn't enough action in the match its self, when you had immense brawling, awesome spots, usage of chairs as weaponry, an excellent finishing stretch and the greatest near fall in history. I guess they mean to say "actual wrestling".


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah so, I'm fucking hammered and I just thought I'd say that before saying this.

Triple H reached a second prime in the years 2004-2006ish, starting at Wrestlemania XX and ending when DX formed. Whenever HBK is involved with HHH, 9 times out of 10 it's going to be melodramatic as fuck.

I'd probably go HHH 2000 > Cena 2007, but I might take Punk 2011-2012 over both of them ......


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Shawn vs. Hunter Christmas Episode Match is still one of the GOATs. 97, I guess?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When you start to consider the possibility that the WWF stayed alive simply because Shawn Michaels & Triple H were terrible human beings, it's kind of really fucking hilarious .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That Christmas episode also includes this GOAT classic. Game running the ropes is hilarious.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah1993, did you watch Wrestlemania 29?


Not yet. I thought about watching what ever interested me but then I realised practically the whole card looked like something I'd want to check out.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^watch and review that shit

JR: "We have seen exposed buttocks."


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I will sometime. I was planning on watching Extreme Rules, when is that?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

May 19th


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I've been away from this thread for a really long time but I just browsed the thread and just wanted to make my point on the past few discussions.

Bryan/Ryback was great, ***1/4 tons of fun. Bryan with an exceptional babyface performance and ryback played to his strengths. Half crab spot was great, and the 2nd powerbomb was absolutely brutal and played into the never say die babyface of bryan.

On the edge discussion, Edge's primary strength was gimmick matches. Edge in tag team and gimmick matches such as TLC, HIAC, and Cage matches are always fun and he does great in those. 
Edge just was not strong in primary one on one matches with no gimmick attached. He was a very average worker in those types of matches. 

Hogan/Rock was just an ultimate spectacle match, match/in ring wise it's not that great. But having one of the most incredible crowds of all time and every move having you on the edge of your seat due to the crowd and how epic the match feels really special.

Oh and Cena 2007>HHH 2000/2001. Cena was just the ultimate workhorse putting out great match after great match. TV and PPV. The only thing HHH has him beat that year is at PPV matches.

Edit: checked my posts and I haven't posted in this thread since the day of wrestlemania. I've missed a lot


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Smackdown Six Project*

Previous entry here: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/711642-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread-1137.html#post17833186

*Edge & Christian (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero & Chyna
WWF Tag Team Championship
Smackdown 5/25/2000*
The very 1st non-Angle match in this project (finally) and the very 1st Eddie Guerrero match in this project (finally as well). Does it look very good on paper? Well, excluding Chyna, I'd say yes. And it wasn't very good, but it tell you what it had a lot of - fun. Like, very, very fun. This came off of E&C having beat every Tag Team competition there was, and bragging about there weren't more teams that could challenge them for the gold, only to be interrupted by MAMACITA. A very hot crowd, keeping up to a 4 minute super fast paced action that still had beautiful storytelling from every party involved was sex to me. As far as the Eddie/Edge interactions, they were pretty good from what I saw here. Really the only thing that I could take away from this was the fact that, around here, Eddie was a little sloppy, as I noted some underperformed moves of his. Also, the ending was stupid, and Chyna is the worst seller I've ever seen. That's what unfortunely keeps me from giving this the three stars. Still, this made for a very fun match that both met my expectations and pleasantly surprised me from the get go.
***3/4*

*Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kurt Angle
Intercontinental Championship
Smackdown 5/25/2000*
In the very same night as the stellar E&C/Eddie & Chyna Tag Title match, you had this over the IC Title, and anyone would've thought that this one has the Tag easily beat. But in Dean Ambrose's mythical word, NOPE. As a matter of fact, a couple matches in and I'm already sick of these two together. I mean, should I be saying that in a match that features two of the greatest technical wrestlers in WWE history? No, I shouldn't. But if these two actually focused on the concept of selling things and psychology, things would've been much better. The initial portions of the match are pretty sensational, with both men going insane with the mat wrestling. There was some stiff brawling, one or two Suplexes but nothing overboard, up here all fine. Then it goes downhill when Angle starts throwing more than one Suplex per second. And seriously, the psychology in this match was MAJORLY letdown. Benoit apparently had a bad knee, so what Angle does? He goes for the knee all match long, in hope that Benoit can't sustain the pain and loses the match... LOLNO. He simply throws random Suplexes here and there. Benoit in his case, decides that it's nice for him to do a bridge pin with a bad knee. And to cape it off, a Belly-to-Belly off the top rope, very Angle'ish, and a DQ finish. Yay. Other than the brawling and matwrestling parts (both of which gave the **+ rating by themselves), this sucked ass.
***1/2*

*Eddie Guerrero (c) vs. Kurt Angle
European Championship
Raw 5/29/2000*
Yup, it's official. Kurt Angle replaced Hulk Hogan as the Man of a 1000 Title Shots. Whom was then replaced by Cena. Anyways, this is the 1st time that the Smackdown Six project got itself some live TV attention, as its the 1st Raw match in this project. And really, couldn't have it been Angle/Edge or Benoit/Eddie or something like that? Because this felt very similar to a typical Angle/Benoit match, only with Eddie luckily selling things more often, and unluckily being less crisp and more sloppy. Once again, psychology in Angle's side wasn't as off as usual but you still noted that he no-sold some things. And while the wrestling wasn't bad, I wasn't giving too much of a damn about it. Especially when you consider the blown spots, sloppy moves and semi-botched finish. Poor Eddie. Really, the crowd is what made this match and helped it become pretty decent by the end, as alike to a Angle/Benoit match, this before going downhill started off pretty nicely. It does raise a question here: when you consider that guys like Chris Benoit and Shawn Michaels don't have extremely sound matches with him, can you consider Angle a great AND horrible wrestler at the same time? I mean, he's a guy that has all the talent in the world, one of the crispiest movesets I've ever seen, and a shitload of charisma and mic skills. But he just can't control the pace of a match well. He just can't. It's mind-boggling to say the least.
***1/2*

*Rikishi & Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit & Val Venis
Smackdown 6/29/2000*
Wow, does this look stacked on paper. Two of the greatest ever, one of the most underrated ever, and one of the best big-men ever. Unfortunely... it was average, OK at best, and that's it. I marked out hard at the beggining because that brawling made me think it was going to be a Tornado Tag match (I miss Tornado Tags  ), and I also marked out quick enough into the match by seeing quickly a Guerrero and Benoit interaction. Those were the biggest attractions, and they could've been better but they still were OK for what they were. The true MVP of this match though was none other than Valbowski. Val Venis wasn't just great in the ring in this match, he was also a great apron guy, and that's exactly what a great Tag competitor is all about. This was average, but overall nothing more than hype filler for the Fully Loaded PPV - and believe me, I'm not much of a fan of hype filler.
***1/4*

*Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero
Raw 7/3/2000*
Oh yes, this is what I'm talking about! This was pretty damn neat. Ladies and gentlemen, what you have here is what a legit Angle/Benoit match should've resembled - technically sound, crisp and a great wrestling contest, but with SELLING mixed to the thing. Eddie brings a whole new element to the table, and the Wolverine adapted to it in a second, creating a truly great spectacle of a short little TV match of around 5 minutes. The storytelling, there wasn't too much, but they certainly did a good job in making each other look like badasses for what they were. The wrestling was pretty dope, the crowd was pretty dope too, and the aftermath was a great way to get Benoit heat... even though it is something that, from a perspective, is very creepy to watch today. I wish somebody told Kurt Angle that this is how you do it. Having matches with guys like Benoit and Guerrero should be an honor to anyone, but you should also bring yourself something that adds to the suspension of disbelief, not hoping that matwrestling and spotfests are the way to go. This wasn't the greatest 5 minute match ever by any means, but it was still very good for what it was.
****1/4*

*Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero
Smackdown 8/31/2000*
Skipping all the way until after SummerSlam, we get another Singles match between these two, and what a big time improvement over their 5/29/00 match. Ending at around 10 minutes, this was the longest match on the project so far (barring of course the WM 16 Triple Threat, that is). And the bad rep that their 2004 matches get kinda told me this was going to be a snoozefest. Thankfully though, the only resthold in this match was locked in for like 10 seconds. Eddie was much crispier here than in the Raw match. The crowd was also very hot (I mean, everybody involved in this match, including Steph and Chyna, were very over). But the real surprise to me in this was Angle's... awesome psychology. Yes, I just said that - Angle did VERY well in the psychology part. He sold that concussion "won" at the announce table incident from SummerSlam very damn well, seeming like it was grogging and mentally beating him up. Eddie took the best use of that, and focused on Angle's head throughout the match, which was beautiful. And the storytelling? Pretty sweet too. It's not amazing or anything - it did feature some sloppy moments, and a little too overbooked of a finish - but a major improvement from their previous match.
*****

*CURRENT LISTINGS:
Kurt Angle (c) vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho, WrestleMania 16 (***3/4)
Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero, Raw 7/3/2000 (***1/4)
Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero, Smackdown 8/31/2000 (***)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2000 (***)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & The Big Show, Smackdown 4/13/2000 (**3/4)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero & Chyna, Smackdown 5/25/2000 (**3/4)
Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kurt Angle, Smackdown 4/20/2000 (**1/2)
Eddie Guerrero (c) vs. Kurt Angle, Raw 5/29/2000 (**1/2)
Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kurt Angle, Smackdown 5/25/2000 (**1/2)
Kurt Angle vs. Edge, Smackdown 12/23/1999 (**1/4)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Smackdown 3/23/2000 (**1/4)
Rikishi & Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit & Val Venis, Smackdown 6/29/2000 (**1/4)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & Hardcore Holly, Smackdown 4/6/2000 (**1/4)
Edge & Christian vs. Kurt Angle & Steve Blackman, Smackdown 1/11/2000 (**)*​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> May 19th


:kane


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd just like to say that I'm shocked anyone would put Cena, from ANY year, over Triple H's 2000-2001 run. This is coming from someone who never even liked Triple H before or after those two years. The Helmsley-McMahon alliance was one of my favorite villainous factions. Tons of great, intense promos from Triple H those years... as well as classic matches with Mick Foley, The Rock, Kurt Angle, Stone Cold, Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit and the list goes on really. Once again, despite not even being much of a Triple H fan, that was one of the best heels and one of the best runs in company history.

Aside from the Shawn Michaels and Umaga matches, Cena faced Great Khali, Bobby Lashley, had one good match with Orton, then he was out with an injury until RR 2008. It doesn't nearly live up to the resume of Triple H from 00-01. I also can't remember anything about his personality that stood out. To each their own though.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

GOATAntics said:


> Rewatched Trips vs. Taker WM27, and it still holds up at ***** and as one of my favorite WM matches, ever. People can continually bash the match as they plea, saying it was a finisher fest and the dead time was too much, but the storytelling, dramatic moments and atmospheric tone were of magnificent quality. That being said, I still don't get members when they say there wasn't enough action in the match its self, when you had immense brawling, awesome spots, usage of chairs as weaponry, an excellent finishing stretch and the greatest near fall in history. I guess they mean to say "actual wrestling".


I fucking love that match. I don't have it a ***** but it's not far off. The storytelling is fantastic throughout, yes even the countless chairshots, it perfectly demonstrated how far Triple H would go to beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania, it's also a prime example of how resilient Undertaker it is and just how much punishment he can take. I also really liked the finish, rather than it being reversal, reversal, reversal of finishing moves. It showed how much desperation had set in for Undertaker and how close Triple H was to grabbing the sledgehammer and ending the streak once and for all. Even after the match they continued to sell the brutality when Undertaker had to be carried out where as Triple H left on his own accord, a nice little touch to a fantastic match.

I don't understand the hate it gets, it's definitely better than their Wrestlemania 28 match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Alex said:


> I fucking love that match. I don't have it a ***** but it's not far off. The storytelling is fantastic throughout, yes even the countless chairshots, it perfectly demonstrated how far Triple H would go to beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania, it's also a prime example of how resilient Undertaker it is and just how much punishment he can take. I also really liked the finish, rather than it being reversal, reversal, reversal of finishing moves. It showed how much desperation had set in for Undertaker and how close Triple H was to grabbing the sledgehammer and ending the streak once and for all. Even after the match they continued to sell the brutality when Undertaker had to be carried out where as Triple H left on his own accord, a nice little touch to a fantastic match.
> 
> I don't understand the hate it gets, it's definitely better than their Wrestlemania 28 match.


Exactly, People who hate the match, either don't understand the core of perfectly balanced storytelling or simply prefer actual wrestling over brawling, storytelling, psychology and of the similar. WM28 is overdone, WM27 is on point.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

For what it's worth, I despise all three of the Triple H/Undertaker Wrestlemania matches.  Hell, I think the HBK/Taker Streak matches are overrated, but whatever :lmao


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

I don't like 17, but 27 and 28 are both good in their own right.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Top 5 Taker Streak Matches in order*
vs. HBK @ Wrestlemania 26 - (*****, but not the GOAT match like a lot say. Not even close to being the best HBK/Taker match. Their HIAC match is THAT good it shits all over this, IMO.)
vs. Edge @ Wrestlemania 24
vs. Punk @ Wrestlemania 29
vs. HBK @ Wrestlemania 25
vs. Orton @ Wrestlemania 21

HM; vs. Flair @ 18, vs. Kane @ 14, vs Batista @ 23.

The rest I don't give a shit about, tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on Angloit WM 17?


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

What I've got is;

1. Undertaker vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 25.
2. Undertaker vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 27.
3. Undertaker vs. HBK - Wrestlemania 26 & Undertaker vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 28.
4. Undertaker vs. Edge - Wrestlemania 24 & Undertaker vs. CM Punk - Wrestlemania 29.
5. Undertaker vs. Batista - Wrestlemania 23.

I gave 3. and 4. equal ratings and thus couldn't choose between then.

I really didn't think much to Undertaker/Orton, it was decent but it could have been much better, plus Orton messed up a couple of spots if I recall correctly, which didn't help.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Taker vs. Edge at Mania 24 is mind-numbingly boring for the first 15 mins.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I need to rewatch Batista/Taker from 23 as I haven't seen that for about two years, but I can easily see that overtaking Orton/Taker/ Hell, any of the honorable mentions could overtaker Orton/Taker, it's just that Orton/Taker is the most recent streak match I've watched other than Punk/Taker, so it's still fresh in my mind.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Orton was so off in the WM21 match, He fucks up Old School by not sliding over and allowing Taker to use his whole body from the jump, rather than one hand, . Another off spot would be an off the ropes one, which looked like a LEGIT clothesline, I thought he was knocked out, don't know if it's his magnificent selling though. unk


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

It is pretty slow Hohenheim, but I'm a big Edge mark so I give it the benefit of the doubt.

You definitely need to rewatch Undertaker/Batista, it's brilliant. I think they only got 15 minutes but they absolutely made the most of it. I've never been a huge fan of Batista's work, I mean he's always been decent for a big guy but not really noteworthy, but Undertaker brought the best out of him, like he does so many others too.

I watched the Undertaker Streak DVD leading into Wrestlemania 29 so it's all pretty much fresh in my mind. It was worth sitting through the terrible earlier matches to get to the latter.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

That Streak DVD Documentary is hilarious, It just takes me through the basic build of each match, nothing else, no interviews, no special promos which happened during the build, no specific events or segments. I did however like the short music video at the end, awesome song choice.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Yeah the documentary was pretty terrible and half-assed, but I only bought it for the actual matches anyway. I didn't think they would even include a documentary, they might as well not have.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure if ya saw it, what do you think of Angle/Benoit WM 17?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

****1/4* for Benoit/Angle WM17. What's so shit about it for people to label it a rating as low as *1/2?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> :lmao @ Big Show/Cena from JD being better than the LMS match, or even the craptastic Edge/Hardy match for that matter.


It's not better. It RAPES it.

Last Man Standing is trash.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Again, I'll respond with a :lmao

I remember falling asleep during the Show/Cena match and woke up mid-way through the Jeff/Edge match. lol. Horribad match.

Cena/Show had a FAR better match earlier in the year on SD.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Their WM20 match deserves a shout too, but knowing this thread they'll probably cut me down and dissect every detail within it. :lmao.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I saw Cena/Show JD 09 live and it was terrible. I didn't like Cena's selling, Show's control was more plodding than engaging, and didn't like the finish either. Plus Cena didn't sell after the match. Big Show & Cena's chemistry is very hit or miss for me. Usually they are a miss. However, I really dug the Smackdown match in Feb 09 and the rematch they had on Raw a couple weeks after that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Again, I'll respond with a :lmao
> 
> I remember falling asleep during the Show/Cena match and woke up mid-way through the Jeff/Edge match. lol. Horribad match.
> 
> Cena/Show had a FAR better match earlier in the year on SD.


As do I to your answer. :lmao hilarious.

No duh the Smackdown match is better. Doesn't take away from the simplistic work that made Show vs Cena from Judgment Day awesome.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I completely forgot Cesaro/Kofi. I didn't catch much of it cause I was trying to cram a chapter I was supposed to read for class the following day. The suplex did catch my eye though. Really want to check that match out. Also, the little bits that I caught in between seemed pretty solid as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> It's not better. It RAPES it.
> 
> Last Man Standing is trash.


This is fact.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Cena/Show had a FAR better match earlier in the year on SD.


TIS also fact.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Not sure if ya saw it, what do you think of Angle/Benoit WM 17?


Probably ** from me, sorry guys but i just cant stand moat of it tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished Smackdown.

Ryback vs Bryan - ★★★¼ (Great performance by both guys)
Orton vs Sandow - ★★ (Not bad at all but very unspectacular, Orton growing his hair back, though :mark
Kane vs Ambrose - ★★¾ (Gets a bit more time than the Taker match which is good. A decent match that I rank about even with that one)

Also Mark Henry was gold as usual. "Come on, man, you wanted to do this!" He actually came across as a face much more than Sheamus here. Another show I watched almost fully had I not skipped the entire World Title contenders match with their manager/bodyguards. Those guys just makes me yawn. More proof that the World Title doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. Sucks because it's the championship Benoit made look like the _world_ nine years ago.

Even though most shows are still boring for their majority, I think this year has already surpassed 2012 in terms of quality. For all their idiocy, I don't think WWE can duplicate just how awful last year was.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Probably ** from me, sorry guys but i just cant stand moat of it tbh.


With you on that one.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I didn't like Benoit/Angle from WM 17 initially either, but after watching it many times, I appreciate it a lot now for its realism. It's a great display of counters and technical wrestling. I can understand why people wouldn't like it but... I think 2 stars is a bit harsh.

As for Smackdown, I decided to watch it last night. Decent show. I thought the triple threat tag match was pretty fun, bryan vs. ryback was fantastic, and Ambrose vs. Kane was a solid way to end the show. I can honestly say that I don't care at all about Sheamus vs. Henry and Orton vs. Big Show for Extreme Rules. The build up for both hasn't interested me. The tug of war and arm wrestling stuff was just boring to me, aside from Henry saying some funny stuff. And like choke2death mentioned, Sheamus has been acting a lot like a heel recently. It's kind of weird, considering that he isn't the heel in this feud...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm watching it for the 1st time in years now, and I'll agree that ** is quite harsh.

Also, Cena/Show JD sucks. It's simplistic but boring as hell and the ending is more frustrating than Sonic Unleashed.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

little late top streak matches :
hbk 26
hbk 25
hhh 28
punk 29
hhh 27
Batista 23
flair 18

EDIT: 26,28: *****, 25,27,29 : ****3/4, 23:****1/2,

The first 15 minutes of the edge 24 is such a turn off cant sit through it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I actually really liked Angle/Benoit WM 17 on a recent re-watch. Love how they started out wrestling on the mat and shit, then when Angle realised Benoit ain't no slouch, he decks him in the fucking face and they just go to WAR with each other. Probably their second best match together (not saying much though lol).

Show/Cena JD and Edge/Cena LMS both suck .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena vs Big Show from Judgment Day 2009 is awesome. 

On another note ; ECW One Night Stand is a BAD show from a wrestling standpoint. I loved the Heyman promo and other assorted stuff but... This is just typical ECW garbage for alot of the show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Of course ECW ONS was a bad show. It was trying to be like the original ECW which fucking blew chunks. Edge, Foley, Lita and FUNK saved ONS 06 from being as bad thankfully.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Steve Austin: "BENOIT, KILL THAT SON OF A BITCH!" .

The most entertaining part of the show was either JBL's alternate commentary as a whole, (which EVERYBODY should check out) or watching JBL fucking dismantle The Blue Meanie's face during the end brawl.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ONS 05 and 06 are both good shows imo. Maybe not as wrestling shows, but for having fun, they are a blast - specially 2005. Sucks Benoit got injured in 06 or else he would've wrestled Malenko on ONS.

Back to my 06 project, Cena is so awesome throughout this year. It's an edgier, more intense version of what he is now but also wittier and actually funny at times. Plus it surprises me that most of the boos he was showered with in the first half of the year are almost completely gone now I've entered the second half. And having him "feud" with K-Fed was probably not a bad idea to get fans on his side. Maybe Vince should take notes of what he did correctly here if he wants to get Cena cheered instead of shoving this humble goody-two shoes bullshit down our throats. Or maybe it's too late now and only a character change can gain Cena more fans.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh My GOD, I'm so fucking hyped to watch Vengeance 2005.

The hype packages, the theme music for the show, MY FAVORITE MATCH EVER :mark: :mark: :mark:.

RUTHLESS AGGRESSION ERA :mark:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So Raw Homecoming was rather GOAT to watch. Haven't seen it since it aired. HBK/Angle was great and much better than their Mania match imo, Hardy/Edge was great if a bit short, DAT HAITCH HEEL TURN ON NAITCH was sick, Austin stunning the entire McMahon family was awesome. Yeah. Pretty darn good show. Across the Nation >>>>>>> EVERYTHING.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MOVE TO THE MUSIC.

PLAY THAT FUCKIN' MUSIC.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

^^^ SO MUCH YES.


----------



## Punkamaniac (Mar 26, 2013)

Watched New Year's Revolution 2006 earlier and thought it was a decent PPV bar the Bra & Panties gauntlet match that was ruined by Mae and Moolah coming down.

Thought the Elimination Chamber match was good and that featured Cena, Angle, HBK, Masters, Carlito and Kane as Cena retained his WWE title before Vince came out and said that Edge was going to cash in his Money in the Bank briefcase. The bonus match of big Vis and Benjamin was decent bar the ending.

Show/HHH wasn't a bad match too, in my opinion.

I can't remember much else about the Flair/Edge IC title match, the Trish/Mickie Women's title clash nor the Helms/Lawler encounter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show/HHH and Mickie/Trish are both great matches from NYR 06. Chamber match is terrible. Really fucking terrible. Horrible. Terrible. Shitty. Wank. Vis/Shelton was surprisingly solid. Helms/Lawler was fine. LAWLER.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched the HBK/Mankind Mind Games match earlier,

Still as epic as ever, just a classic war type occasion, Foley was awesome in his role, and HBK just brought it all out, he did seem pissed when Foley (i think) missed a spot where HBK went to the top turnbuckle for some sort of moonsault, and Foley was still on the other side of the ring,

Didnt really mind the DQ finish tbh, match was a good length, you could a;ways pretend in your mind HBK pinned Mankind after that chair shot lol.


----------



## Punkamaniac (Mar 26, 2013)

Big Z said:


> Show/HHH and Mickie/Trish are both great matches from NYR 06. Chamber match is terrible. Really fucking terrible. Horrible. Terrible. Shitty. Wank. Vis/Shelton was surprisingly solid. Helms/Lawler was fine. LAWLER.


Perhaps I shouldn't watch PPV's while I'm half asleep so I can actually remember what happened. :lmao


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The NYR 06 chamber might be the worst chamber of them all. The only thing that saves it is the Edge cash in after. Still the best cash in too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That chamber match is pretty good. Don't get the hate for it at all. Sure, Angle was eliminated too soon and Masters & Carlito being among the final three was not the smartest idea, but it still came together just fine and the match was very good.

But I'm a mark for the chamber gimmick, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Smackdown Six Project*

Previous entry here: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/711642-official-dvd-match-show-discussion-thread-1147.html#post17857914

*Eddie Guerrero, The Rock & Chyna vs. Edge, Christian & Chris Benoit
Smackdown 7/6/2000*
If you've checked my previous entry, you'll note that this match comes quite before the last posted match on that one (Angle/Eddie). Yeah, that was some time miscalculation from me. Anyways, this was fine for what it was. Nothing too spectacular or anything, but it grabbed nicely the wrestling portion at that. The interactions with Guerrero/Edge/Benoit are the matter here, and they're good. E&C and Benoit did a good job of believably working over Eddie's back area, and showing off themselves, but nothing else that truly sticks out here. Although this is where the Rock/Benoit feud really grows into full gear, but that really doesn't matter too much here, does it? In other words, this was hype filler, and not too much interesting one at that.
***1/4*

*Eddie Guerrero & Chyna vs. Chris Benoit
Smackdown 7/13/2000*
This was after the 1st one-on-one match of Eddie and Benoit on Raw (whose review you can find on this project's previous entry in that link). The aftermath to that match was (creepily), Benoit beating the fuck out of both Eddie and Chyna, and this was the revenge for MAMACITA. The wrestling was pretty damn good, even Chyna looked alright in that aspect. But the storytelling is what puts this really over the top. Some might not think so, but I loved the living hell out of the storytelling in this match. Everything, from Eddie beating Benoit before it started, to the trash talk, to Shane McMahon distracting the ref as Chyna tagged in... it was all crafted beautifully. It was also a pretty damn hot match, as the crowd was whole throughly in it. Benoit got what he had coming in one of the best Handicap matches I can recall in WWE, and while that's not saying too much, when you have the right people it can become really good. And, believe it or not, I thought this was actually BETTER than the Benoit/Eddie match.
****1/4*

*Eddie Guerrero & Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit & Val Venis
Smackdown 8/10/2000*
Yay for more hype filler! This was the Eddie & Rikishi/Benoit & Val match only to hype SummerSlam, and with Y2J in the place of Rikishi... and believe me, it was also far better as well. While the beggining to its predecessor sort-of resembled me of a Tornado Tag, this REALLY looked like a Tornado Tag. Like, extremely similar to one. The action was very fun and very solid, as it always kept going at a fast pace without losing track of itself (hello Angle/Benoit matches). Every combination in this match is good (including the Benoit and Eddie ones), every move actually mattered for something, and it never felt like filler nonsense as it probably actually was. Benoit and Jericho were the cream of the crop here, as their wrestling was pretty damn awesome and very cool. Technically, this had the same old "Double feud" PPV build-up purpose as usual. But this time, it was also better than usual too. And the aftermath is pretty damn awesome... even though it was very common in Attitude days.
***3/4*

*Chyna (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle
Triple Threat Match for the Intercontinental Championship
Raw 9/4/2000*
And we're finally back where we should - after the last entry's most recent match. And once again, Kurt got himself a title shot. He really was the Attitude Era's John Cena in that department. Oh, and yes, Chyna was the Intercontinental Champion. She had won it at that Mixed Tag match from SummerSlam. Anyways, this was... decent I guess. Not that I really cared about it, but it was decent as far as the wrestling is concerned. It was more about the Eddie/Chyna relationship holes than anything though, and Kurt was nothing more than a third wheel here. More of that even more explained by the fact that, when all's said and done, nothing about this match truly sticked out other than the finish, with Eddie "accidentally" pinning Chyna for the gold. Not really my kind of cake, though the in-ring action isn't bad and the finish was a bit stupid but I still really dug it.
***1/2*

*The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
Four Corners Match
Smackdown 9/28/2000*
Some idiots out there make the claim that this was a Tag Team match, featuring Rock and Trips vs. Angle and Benoit. That sounds good and all, but you should actually see the match before going ahead and posting it as something it was NOT. It was a Xros Digivolution between a Tag match and a Fatal 4-Way, that's what I like to call it. But that Xros Digivolution turns out to be a really good choice instead of going the same old "Tag hype filler" route for the build up to 2 of the 3 biggest feuds heading into the No Mercy PPV (Rock/Angle and HHH/Benoit). The action here was very good, with all combos doing well. Nothing stuck out as super memorable in the match itself but you'll definitely enjoy it if you're a fan of these kind of matches. It's very fun, it feels big and star-studded, the psychology is awesome, the Angle/Benoit interactions are kept to simply tagging in and breaking up pins but nothing too bad, and it isn't overbooked either. And the aftermath was the best way they could've POSSIBLY made Benoit look like a legit badass. This was pretty damn great, and the 1st match to give out the WM 16 Triple Threat a mild run for its money. A true gem here.
****1/2*

*Chris Jericho (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. X-Pac
Fatal 4-Way Match for the Intercontinental Championship
No Way Out 2001*
And from one four-way match to another, only that this time it's not Four Corners, it's Fatal 4-Way... aka the Tornado Four Corners (see what I did here?). And if the Rock/HHH/Angle/Benoit match gave the Two Fall Triple Threat a run for its money, this one simply stole and humped that match's wallet. What a fucking great match. Used to be one of my favourites ever and STILL holds up after watching it for the 1st time in years. Non-stop action from the get go, though that non-stop action is always brought out with psychology and storytelling. Flashy but sense making moves. Jericho played the fighting champion role very well, whereas Eddie and Benoit did very good as the allied dogs here as well. Hell, even X-Pac did very nicely as the "underdog". Then again, he actually was in his prime here, so it comes off as no surprise he performed pretty nicely - X-Pac in his prime kinda didn't deserve the X-Pac heat, I'll admit that. No Way Out 2001 is one of the best PPV's I've ever seen, and between this, the 3 Stages Of Hell match, and the Rock/Angle Main Event, accompanied by an amazing undercard, it can't be anything other than truly spectacular. And this right here is spectacular enough to catapult into my new #1 position in the listings of this project.
****3/4
*
*Chris Benoit vs. The Radicalz (Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko & Eddie Guerrero)
Gauntlet Match
Smackdown 3/8/2001*
After two stellar four-ways, I got myself a "cool-down" of sorts. I always disliked Gauntlet/Tag Turmoil type of matches due to their rushed nature, and here is no different. This right here is essentially the officialization of Benoit separating from the Radicalz and his face turn (his heel run was up there with his WHC reign as the icing on the cake of his career), and to be honest, it wasn't too good. With the talent involved, you'd think it could've been spectacular, but it isn't. Saturn started things off with Chris, and he was by far the one with the best competition out of this whole match, as his portion was pretty sweet. Malenko comes in and it resembles A LOT a Benoit/Angle submission counter and no-selling contest there. And then, after a cheap shot by Saturn and Malenko, Eddie beats Benoit in seconds. Good heel booking? Yes. What I'm looking for here? No. If I was rating just the Benoit/Eddie match, I'd give it a DUD. But because I'm rating the whole match...
***1/2*

*Edge, Christian & Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy
Raw 3/26/2001*
Another fun little mindless... hype filler match. Yay for that. What has been said about this kind of match that hasn't been said before? This told a nice story, featured some alright stiff action especially from the canadian parties (Benoit and E&C), and it was fun enough to keep me entertained. But it just wasn't anything I really cared about, not to mention the fact that it was a little too short for it to be really stellar as it could've been. Nothing else to be said about this one.
***1/4*

*Eddie Guerrero & Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit & Test
Smackdown 3/29/2001*
And the hype filler continues. And so does the quality decreasing since the Benoit/Radicalz Gauntlet. While as far as actual in-ring action is concerned, I liked this more than the previous 6-Man Tag, that simply wasn't enough for me to give it a favourable rating. Perhaps for the fact that it wasn't even 3 minutes. Or perhaps for the fact that big part of it was essentially a semi-squash. Still, the almost 3 minutes of it were really fun, though they did resemble a typical Angle match at some points, with the no-selling of some moves and whatnot. Note here as well - as far as I can remember, this is the very 1st match in this project where Angle uses the Ankle Lock. Not sure if that's good news or bad news. Good because his Ankle Lock is beautiful and crisp (though Ken Shamrock's was more beastly and savage). Bad because that only brought more into his psychology problems. I guess no shenanigans would ever hack Angle into the good side of that party (see what I did there?). Fun but CRIMINALLY short hype filler... but then again, it is hype filler after all.
****

*Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit
WrestleMania 17*
Before anything, here's a personal confession of a fan here. I've seen myself at the end of the world figuring out how would this match fare to me. I've seen some people (recently, zep81) giving it no more than **. Others (like the dude I talked you about that had Cena/Punk 2013 at *****) gave it a fucking Whopper of ****3/4. Me growing up and changing my taste on wrestling saw massive changes of opinion every day regarding one of my early favourite matches. Quickly into my wrestling fandom I instantly fell in love with Benoit and Angle's work, and when I knew these two wrestled many times, I was like the happiest boy in the world. I checked out the match that appealed the most to me at that time (which was this one), watched it and fell in love with in. Then I grew up, things changed, and knowing that it would hurt me in some way to have to see this match due to my childhood, I've decided to not watch it in a LOOOONG time. So, after about 5 years since I've 1st watched it, Angle/Benoit at WrestleMania 17 was in my playlist. And my consensous? It still holds up, but not as much as before. It's nowhere near the ** bad rep it gets, but it's certainly not even close to a true classic either. It's one of the better outings these two had together, I'll give you that. The matwrestling portions at the beggining were really damn badass, and so were the WAR and FIGHT portions afterwards, spawned by Angle being beat by Benoit in straight up wrestling. It loses track of itself (as usual) with plenty no-selling in all of that, but there were throughout some really cool moments such as both men locking on the other's submissions and the stiff action all the way. It tried too hard to feel "epic", but it certainly felt big. And while it's not a world changing match in any means, it's very good for the sake of it. Though I'll admit that I'm giving it 1/4* more than it deserves, due to my bias over it  .
****1/2*

*CURRENT LISTINGS:*
*Chris Jericho (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. X-Pac, No Way Out 2001 (***3/4)
Kurt Angle (c) vs. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho, WrestleMania 16 (***3/4)
The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Smackdown 9/28/2000 (***1/2)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, WrestleMania 17 (***1/2)
Eddie Guerrero & Chyna vs. Chris Benoit, Smackdown 7/13/2000 (***1/4)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Raw 7/3/2000 (***1/4)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle, Smackdown 8/31/2000 (***)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2000 (***)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & The Big Show, Smackdown 4/13/2000 (**3/4)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero & Chyna, Smackdown 5/25/2000 (**3/4)
Eddie Guerrero & Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit & Val Venis, Smackdown 8/10/2000 (**3/4)
Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kurt Angle, Smackdown 4/20/2000 (**1/2)
Eddie Guerrero (c) vs. Kurt Angle, Raw 5/29/2000 (**1/2)
Chyna (c) vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle, Raw 9/7/2000 (**1/2)
Chris Benoit (c) vs. Kurt Angle, Smackdown 5/25/2000 (**1/2)
Chris Benoit vs. The Radicalz, Smackdown 3/8/2001 (**1/2)
Kurt Angle vs. Edge, Smackdown 12/23/1999 (**1/4)
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Smackdown 3/23/2000 (**1/4)
Eddie Guerrero, The Rock & Chyna vs. Edge, Christian & Chris Benoit, Smackdown 7/6/2000 (**1/4)
Edge, Christian & Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy, Raw 3/26/2001 (**1/4)
Rikishi & Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit & Val Venis, Smackdown 6/29/2000 (**1/4)
Edge & Christian (c) vs. Kurt Angle & Hardcore Holly, Smackdown 4/6/2000 (**1/4)
Eddie Guerrero & Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit & Test, Smackdown 3/29/2001 (**)
Edge & Christian vs. Kurt Angle & Steve Blackman, Smackdown 1/11/2000 (**)*​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

New Year's Revolution 2006 - WOAT Chamber.

Still marking the fuck out over Vengeance 2005, as I haven't seen Angle-HBK II in YEARS and it just so happens to be up next .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm with C2D on this one, NYR 2006 is far from a great chamber but it's definitely solid in its own right. DTD ECW is the worst chamber and nothing comes close to the horrors it produced, *shivers*.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Any ratings for Sheamus/Bryan from Extreme Rules 2012? I've only seen it once, when it aired live and I was really sleepy so don't remember much about it. 

I'm about to pop on the blu-ray so I'd like to read some thoughts from people.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

***** 1/4* for Sheamus-Danielson. Focused offense by Bryan + fantastic selling by Sheamus = a compelling story told in the ring that got me invested. The match would be more heralded I think if it didn't happen on the same night as Cena/Lesnar, which was the hands down MOTY and one of the best matches in company history.

& the D2D 2006 Chamber > > > > New Year's Revolution 2006 Chamber.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

admiremyclone said:


> Any ratings for Sheamus/Bryan from Extreme Rules 2012? I've only seen it once, when it aired live and I was really sleepy so don't remember much about it.
> 
> I'm about to pop on the blu-ray so I'd like to read some thoughts from people.


Great match. ****1/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan vs Sheamus - ★★★★½

And NYR 06 chamber >>> SS 03, D2D, SD 08, both 2012 chambers. And even the 2010 ones I'd say.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> That chamber match is pretty good. Don't get the hate for it at all. Sure, Angle was eliminated too soon and Masters & Carlito being among the final three was not the smartest idea, but it still came together just fine and the match was very good.
> 
> But I'm a mark for the chamber gimmick, though.


This. I liked how good they made Carlito and Masters looked in that match. Sadly, that match was the most relevant they ever were in their careers. I liked the team work between the two that lasted all the way until the end when Carlito double crossed Masters, and then Cena wins with a roll-up and I think that's a factor in why people shit on this match, but then Edge saves it with an epic cash-in. I can watch that match again and enjoy it easily.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Actually just started the 2006 chamber. Angle, HBK, and Kane in there, and Carlito and Chris Masters lasts longer. Something's wrong here.

Hey KoK, just watched Game/Batista HIAC the other day. Bangin cell match. 

And ATF, another nice read on your Smackdown six.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thoughts on flair/race series back in 83 ratings ?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Do you guys prefer ECs or HIACs in terms of match quality since ECs came out?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I still prefer HIAC matches. EC is basically a bigger cage match with a steel floor. At least with the cell you can go get weapons.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Sheamus - *****1/2*

Great job by both men, but this was the Daniel Bryan show. The ending of the first fall all the way to the beginning of the third one was one of the most suspenseful things I've seen in a long time. This was actually my favorite match on that PPV out of the three *****1/2* level classics. Terrific crowd too, as always from the GOAT city.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

I'm sorry that I'm so bad with names but a few weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago (I'm also bad with timelines), someone was asking me about my opinion(s) on Mick Foley. I'm way too lazy to search the thread again to find the exact quotes, but I remember talking about The Nasty Boys specifically.

Anyway, today, before, during & after writing my newest wrestling blog, I have been watching some Foley matches. Initially it just started as inspirational background noise but it kept distracting me. His Backlash match with Randy Orton, his Hell in a Cell match with The Undertaker, his Wrestlemania 22 match with Edge...that dude is a crazy son-of-a-bitch. He did things in WWE that we will never see in WWE again, that's for sure. I had seen plywood with barbed wire, thumbtacks, flaming tables & barbed wire baseball bats before but never in WWE until his crazy ass got there.

The fact that the guy doing all of that stuff is the same goofy commissioner wearing a sock on his hand... :lmao

I do think that I underrate Foley.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

prefer elimination chambers for me, i love them


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> thoughts on flair/race series back in 83 ratings ?


Eh, nothing special. Not a big fan of Race in general, though he HAS had some really good and really fun matches, but I never got into his matches with Flair at all. Flair/Race to me is on the same level as Flair/Dusty; both are talked about a lot by the 'E and put over as being great, but I could live the rest of my life without seeing their matches again and be perfectly... well not happy because I doubt I can be happy, but you get what I mean. No need to see them unless you really want to. Don't think there is some hidden gem to be found with Flair/Race.

As for EC Vs HIAC... I'll always prefer HIAC due to its awesome "back catalogued" of matches, however since HIAC got its own PPV, EC has been much more consistent at putting on decent matches. HIAC PPV's have murdered the gimmick on cold blood and I demand vengeance! Or just the Vengeance PPV name back. Unless it is back and we've had it for the last few years and I have no memory of this because my mind is fucked atm.

Foley rules. That is all (I can muster atm with my mind being dead).


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah HIAC just seem to be lacking in the last few years that is why I raised the question; of course the HIAC has a great list of matches from the past.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Giving HIAC it's own PPV is the worst thing they could have done.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Giving HIAC it's own PPV is the worst thing they could have done.


Espically in the PG era, where you can't use the cell that much.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Have there been any great (**** or higher) HIAC matches since 2007? I need to check out Batista/Taker again, but after DX vs ShowMahon in 2006 (brutal ass match), I'm not if anything has been that great.

Just started the December to Dismember chamber match. I've got a feeling Heyman's pre-match promo may be better than the match. 

For what it's worth, I gave the NYR 2006 chamber match **3/4. Nothing really good about it, but wasn't terrible. It kills me to see that they basically used Angle to fill a spot. Can't believe he was eliminated first.

Edit: Of course excluding Trips/Taker from WM 28. Brain fart.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@Big Z thanks man 4 the write up im just looking for some :flair gems (GOAT) to watch outside of the usually, I started the flair/race steel cage and it was a tad slow and to much rest holds


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Have there been any great (**** or higher) HIAC matches since 2007? I need to check out Batista/Taker again, but after DX vs ShowMahon in 2006 (brutal ass match), I'm not if anything has been that great.
> 
> Just started the December to Dismember chamber match. I've got a feeling Heyman's pre-match promo may be better than the match.
> 
> For what it's worth, I gave the NYR 2006 chamber match **3/4. Nothing really good about it, but wasn't terrible. It kills me to see that they basically used Angle to fill a spot. Can't believe he was eliminated first.


Edge/Taker and HHH/Taker. Edge/Taker was Summerslam 08 and the last HIAC before they introduced the PPV. I think HHH/Taker has been the only one since that they've had outside of it's own PPV.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/taker wm 28 i actually have at *****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^So do I, redskins. Though I prefer EC over HIAC nowadays.

TLC or MITB?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^tough one im going to have to go with MITB


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Of course Trips/Taker. As soon as I wrote that I realized I had forgotten it. Edge/Taker needs a rewatch, but that is a good match.

HIAC having its own PPV has about ruined it. From 1997-2008 there were 15 cell matches (not counting Kane/Foley on Raw that went to a no contest), and from 2009-2013 they've crammed in 9. At least they haven't had 3 cell matches in one night like the first PPV. Punk/Ryback never should have happened in the cell.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Edge/Taker HIAC is fucking fantastic IMO, i prefer it (i think) to the WM24 match. ****1/2 form me.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I also have to give Taker/Batista 07 a rewatch. I remember it being pretty good tho. 

I have both matches the same rating. Am I the only one who didn't like the DX finisher on taker at WM 28? To me it was a lame attempt to end the streak because you know for damn sure they wouldn't end it like that.

HHH/Taker WM ****1/4
Edge/Taker SS ****1/4


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/Taker- ****1/2
Taker/Edge- ****


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> Oh My GOD, I'm so fucking hyped to watch Vengeance 2005.
> 
> The hype packages, the theme music for the show, MY FAVORITE MATCH EVER :mark: :mark: :mark:.
> 
> RUTHLESS AGGRESSION ERA :mark:.


Your favorite match is Carlito vs. Shelton Benjamin :HHH


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The problem is that the WWE is letting the calendar dictate the natural progression of their feuds, and not the other way around. For example, let's take a look at the inaugural HIAC match at Badd Blood 1997 and the feud between HBK and the Undertaker; they originally had a match at Ground Zero which went all over the arena and was indecisive, thus needing a cage with a top so there was no conceivable way that it could happen again. In short, it made SENSE because now there was nowhere for Shawn Michaels to run or hide from the phenom.

Now let's look at CM Punk vs Ryback from last year's HIAC PPV. We were supposed to be getting Punk vs Cena in perhaps a generation defining cell match, but where Cena got an injury it couldn't possibly happen. Now naturally if this was any other PPV they could have just Punk vs Ryback in a normal match but NOPE. Their first match just HAD to be in a gimmick match that's supposed to be a feud ender simply because the calendar asked for it. You take that and the fact that they never USE the cell anymore and instead opt to just have streetfights inside of the cell ala Orton-Sheamus, mixed with the lack of violence and brutality and you've got a cocktail for a shitty gimmick. It's sad because Hell in a Cell is my favorite gimmick match by FAR.

Since I'm going to watch MY FAVORITE MATCH EVER in a little bit, anybody wanna throw out their own personal favorite match?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

John Cena vs JBL in an I Quit match for the WWE championship- Judgement Day 2005

Rating: ★★★★1/2. My favorite I Quit match to date.

Re-watching the Booker T vs Kurt Angle match. The build-up leading to their Judgement Day match is hilarious. "I wanna have sex with your wife!" :lol


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, my personal favorite certainly isn't that December to Dismember chamber match. Holy shit I can't believe I got through without falling asleep. Did nod off a few times though. 

Personal favorite honestly might be HHH/Rock from Summerslam 1998. One of the first matches I ever saw and has stuck with me. 

After watching Triple H/Batista HIAC yesterday, that match certainly climbed up my list.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

my favorite match is probably :hbk vs :flair2 wm 24 because I mark for both are my 2 favorites of all time and not to mention a damn good match


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> The problem is that the WWE is letting the calendar dictate the natural progression of their feuds, and not the other way around. For example, let's take a look at the inaugural HIAC match at Badd Blood 1997 and the feud between HBK and the Undertaker; they originally had a match at Ground Zero which went all over the arena and was indecisive, thus needing a cage with a top so there was no conceivable way that it could happen again. In short, it made SENSE because now there was nowhere for Shawn Michaels to run or hide from the phenom.
> 
> Now let's look at CM Punk vs Ryback from last year's HIAC PPV. We were supposed to be getting Punk vs Cena in perhaps a generation defining cell match, but where Cena got an injury it couldn't possibly happen. Now naturally if this was any other PPV they could have just Punk vs Ryback in a normal match but NOPE. Their first match just HAD to be in a gimmick match that's supposed to be a feud ender simply because the calendar asked for it. You take that and the fact that they never USE the cell anymore and instead opt to just have streetfights inside of the cell ala Orton-Sheamus, mixed with the lack of violence and brutality and you've got a cocktail for a shitty gimmick. It's sad because Hell in a Cell is my favorite gimmick match by FAR.
> 
> Since I'm going to watch MY FAVORITE MATCH EVER in a little bit, anybody wanna throw out their own personal favorite match?


Agreed, gimmick PPV's should not exist except for the royal rumble. A HIAC or a TLC match should be a feud ender, not a starting off point. That's why the HIAC seems so tame now because they aren't that rare occasion all out war that should happen after a very long feud.
That's why HBK/Taker at Badd Blood is the perfect example, plus being the greatest match in WWE history also helps.

I don't really have a favorite match, due to how many incredible matches have happened over so many different promotions that I really just can't pick one match. I'd probably have a list of favorite matches from US promotions, since this is the WWE section.

HBK/Taker Badd Blood. 
Flair/Windham 2/14/86
Flair/Steamboat Clash of the Champions VI
Flair/Funk I Quit Match
Midnight Express/Fantastics 4/26/88

:flair3:flair3:flair3:flair3:flair3:

And many more, i don't have a list compiled but that's just a few examples of some of my favorite matches


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels HIAC
Midnight Express vs. The Southern Boys GAB 90

Those two jump out straight away without me even thinking. I could list a lot, but those two top the list by a far margin when it comes to North American matches.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

There was a guy who was asking for Flair gems. It's not the best Flair match for me, it's a match I don't think I've seen anyone ever talk about. Ric Flair vs Jimmy Garvin at the Great American Bash 87. Easily a top 5 Flair performance imo, though, and definately my favourite Flair match. He stsrts with the usual shtick, does his routine performances, and then transforms into a man hell bent on destroying Garvin's leg and getting that one night with Precious. The transformation was done perfectly, once he finds that weakness. When the tables are turned, albeit shortly, he does everything he needs to put Garvin over bigtime. Finish was fantastic also.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit Wrestlemania X-Seven (2001) ***

If I'm not mistaken, this match gets butchered on here. I thought it was an okay bout.
*
@Desecration*
Since you review older matches, do you have any recs for David Von Erich matches?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

****+ Cell matches since 2007:

Taker/Edge SS 2008- ****1/2
Taker/HHH WM28- ****


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

SpookshowTony said:


> Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit Wrestlemania X-Seven (2001) ***
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, this match gets butchered on here. I thought it was an okay bout.
> *
> ...


Can't help unfortunately, nowhere near touched WCCW. Doesn't help that DVDVR doesn't have a set for it, I think.

Had checked, allegedly they do. Will probably get into it when I've done Mid-South/Memphis, and watch it alongside AWA.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> Can't help unfortunately, nowhere near touched WCCW. Doesn't help that DVDVR doesn't have a set for it, I think.
> 
> Had checked, allegedly they do. Will probably get into it when I've done Mid-South/Memphis, and watch it alongside AWA.



All cool.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> There was a guy who was asking for Flair gems. It's not the best Flair match for me, it's a match I don't think I've seen anyone ever talk about. Ric Flair vs Jimmy Garvin at the Great American Bash 87. Easily a top 5 Flair performance imo, though, and definately my favourite Flair match. He stsrts with the usual shtick, does his routine performances, and then transforms into a man hell bent on destroying Garvin's leg and getting that one night with Precious. The transformation was done perfectly, once he finds that weakness. When the tables are turned, albeit shortly, he does everything he needs to put Garvin over bigtime. Finish was fantastic also.


yea man it was me, i give it a watch I asked what were ppl thoughts on flair/race and the reviews wasnt that good


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Decided to re-watch HHH/Big Show from New Year's Revolution 2006, for all that EVIL GAME goodness. This has always been a match I've enjoyed a lot due to HHH being his maniacal self and Big Show delivering probably his best babyface performance. It's a pretty simple story, but both men play it to perfection. HHH attacked Show a few weeks prior with a sledgehammer to the hand, breaking it, but now Show has his own equalizer in the form of the massive cast.

HHH pleads with the referee at the start of the match to step in, and Show begins strongly by using his power as HHH tries to escape around the ring. HHH then gets the upper hand and thus begins one of the best heel control segments. HHH just aims everything at the injured hand of Show, stomping on it, kneeing it multiple times, smashing it into the ringpost many times as well, all after removing the cast completely. Show may not be the best face but like I mentioned, this is probably his best face performance, his facial expressions really show the agony he's going through. He overpowers HHH and makes a bit of a comeback, still selling the hand well. He attempts a chokeslam with said hand, but obviously can't go through with it. With the ref down, HHH retrieves his great equalizer the sledgehammer and comes at Show with it. But then we get an awesome moment, Show stops HHH in his path and with one mammoth shot, breaks the sledgehammer in half. Great moment, can't recall the sledgehammer being broken like that before, and HHH's face is priceless. A few minutes later on the outside though, and HHH gets his revenge with a huge chairshot to the hand of Big Show, as it was laid across the steel steps. After recovering, Show comes back with a spear and then wants to finish it with a chokeslam with his other hand back in the ring, but HHH connects with half of the sledgehammer, before hitting an iffy Pedigree for the win.

Not losing any stars on this match, still holds up really well. HHH smirking as he's dissecting Big Show is awesome and the selling of the hand throughout from Show is great. Add to that some great spots such as the sledgehammer break and the vicious chair shot to the hand, and it's an awesome match. Definitely one of my favourite Show matches, not sure exactly where it would rank in terms of my favourite HHH matches since that's a lot longer list. ******


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watched Piper/Goldie at WM 12 again. What a fuckin' fun match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I've honestly not ever seen that Triple H/Big Show match from NYR. Nice review, ABH.

The 2008 chamber match lineups are strange. The Smackdown match might as well have been Batista/Taker. The rest of that match was jobber central. 

The 2008 Raw match on the other hand is STACKED. HBK/Jericho/HHH/Umaga/Hardy/JBL. HBK/Jericho starting things off. These two together is always gold.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> thoughts on flair/race series back in 83 ratings ?


8/31/83 is where it's at. Smokes the cage match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watch some :flair3 than Ima try and watch the edge/taker ss08 and wm for da first time


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

_*John Cena vs CM Punk - Money in the Bank 2011*_

- Been wanting to get a completely secure opinion on this as I've only seen it live (not in person of course) and one more time after that. This one is really deciding and my best at trying to analyze it as good as I possibly can. Punk's entrance pop is just amazing, he's _really_ over with this crowd. Cena, on the other hand, gets booed worse than any other time except One Night Stand. I like how he's all business and there's no cheesy smile and salute for his entrance. He really sells the story of finding himself in a bad spot here. The bell rings and the crowd is electric as they are heavily behind Punk and boo any move Cena does. A pretty slow start that's saved by the amazing crowd. It's mostly chinlocks, hammer locks, arm wrench and that type of "technical" stuff. For the first 10 or so minutes, they mostly spend the time on the mat and occasionally hit a few bulldogs, DDTs or a suplex here and there. Then about halfway through in 15 minutes, the pace finally picks up and they waste less time in restholds. Crowd never gets silent for one minute as they are loud all the way through which helps in order to not make the match dull for a single moment. A few botches are used frequently by detractors to put down this match and I find it funny that it's actually Cena who covers up for them. Punk fails to land properly for a Crossbody and Cena improvises by acting like his knee was hurt there.

After that, it really gets good with them going back and forth, hitting their moves and in Cena's case, he even tries out some rare stuff like the Emerald Flowsion and a cool Gutwrench Suplex. Punk goes aerial numerous times and hits Cena with a couple of stiff knees to the jaw that look like they must have really hurt. They spend this second half of the middle portion putting over Punk. He looks extremely strong as he escapes the STF twice and kicks out of two FUs as well as any other move Cena hits him with such as the Diving Legdrop. He also reverses Cena's 5 moves of doom until it's completed as Cena goes back to it where he was stopped. Crowd doesn't like it which makes it even funnier. The the finishing stretch comes with Punk hitting Cena in the chest for the GTS that causes him to go through the ropes and Vince appears with John Laurinaitis to watch the action which distracts Punk long enough to fall into the STF once again when he enters the ring. Screwjob 2.0 is almost on the way as Cena breaks the hold to stop Laurinaitis from ringing the bell. This was a nice piece of storytelling to go along with Cena's crappy goody-two shoes character and ultimately, it costs him the match when he walks into a GTS and gets pinned for a huge pop from the crowd. This was really epic. Nearly 35 minutes of an electric crowd with every move being bought into. Sure, there were a few botches (all Punk's fault might I add!) but this was just awesome.

I enjoyed most of it and the crowd made sure there were no dull parts including the openings with the resthold exchanges. As good as this match is, I will not go full five like I originally did because it's not really historic. Let's face it, it had the potential to be there but now we're back to square one and the only difference between then and now is Punk's status. And even though they are no major problem, there are 5-6 botches including Punk falling too early for a bulldog, the Crossbody, Punk failing to land on his feet when reversing the FU and Protobomb as well as failing to Powerbomb Cena as counter to his top rope move. Also it sucks that because this match was so good, they are so comfortable in redoing the exact same match every time they're in the ring together. That's why I'm not really into the idea of this match-up as others are (KOK, I'm looking at you). It's the same formula they're playing and in the end, it relies on the story and the crowd to make it memorable. For instance, a month later they replayed this at SummerSlam and in the end, we got an extremely dull match that felt like a poor rehash and every other match they've had since then has been the same but in a couple of occasions, they've successfully made it work although not to the same extent as MITB. I can only hope they switch it up if they get a gimmick match because I'm not subscribing to anything more involving these two. ★★★★½


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I've honestly not ever seen that Triple H/Big Show match from NYR. Nice review, ABH.


You should definitely watch it. HHH/Show is an underrated pairing, they always worked well together.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I know the event is seen as the worst WM ever but I don't recall seeing the ppv, so I'm giving it a shot. _'93, time for Wrestlemania. (Whoa, whoa)_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Stone Cold vs Chris Benoit - Raw (28/5/2001)*
Another great match between these two. Like a mini version of the Smackdown classic they had later on the same week. Rib work by Austin is on-point and Benoit as the underdog is just perfect. Finish was also a smart way to set up the rematch and the post-match beatdown was awesome. Benoit having McMahon in the Crossface! :mark:

★★★★


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I just finished watching Jericho/Mysterio from GAB 08 holy shit how awesome was this match?!? Hows everyones Top 10 Jericho matches? Here would be mine: (WWE only)

1. Vs HBK WM 19. ****3/4

2. Vs mysterio GAB 09. ****1/2

3. Vs HHH Fully loaded 2000. LMS. ****1/2

4. Vs Chris Benoit RR 01. GOAT ladder match IMO. ****1/2 

5. Vs Rock No mercy 01. ****1/4

6. Vs HBK No mercy 08 ladder match. ****1/4

7. Vs Punk WM 28. ****1/4

8. Vs Rock RR 02. ****

9. Vs RVD KOTR 02. **** (Very underrated) 

10. Vs Cena Summerslam 05. ****

That'd be my top 10. My 2 honorable mentions would be Vs ziggler ss 12 and Jericho/Benoit vs HHH/Austin on raw.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I just finished watching Jericho/Mysterio from GAB 08 holy shit how awesome was this match?!? Hows everyones Top 10 Jericho matches? Here would be mine: (WWE only)
> 
> 1. Vs HBK WM 19. ****3/4
> 
> ...




Sent from my SGH-T769 using VerticalSports.Com App


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

So I'm at the mall waiting for my friend and stumble into the DVD store. That is when I see the first three seasons of HOGAN KNOWS BEST on DVD for $3. I'm not proud of this but I couldn't help myself. So I'm 4 episodes in and Hogan is the most hilarious person ever. 

Hogan is the GOAT over protective (creepy) father. :hogan


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Y2J (Singles) Matches:

(****3/4)
1) vs. Benoit RR 01
(****1/2)
2) vs. HBK WM19
(****1/4)
3) vs. Triple H FL 00
4) vs. HBK NM 08
5) vs. Rock NM 01
6) vs. Mysterio The Bash 09
(****)
7) vs. Rock RR 02
8) vs. Punk WM28
9) vs. HBK JD 08
(***3/4)
10) vs. Benoit Raw 2/7/05


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Top 10 Y2J (Singles) Matches:
> 
> (****3/4)
> 1) vs. Benoit RR 01
> ...




I really need to rewatch HBK/Jericho from judgment day. I've only seen it once and that was live.


----------



## KO Bossy (Oct 23, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I just finished watching Jericho/Mysterio from GAB 08 holy shit how awesome was this match?!? Hows everyones Top 10 Jericho matches? Here would be mine: (WWE only)
> 
> 1. Vs HBK WM 19. ****3/4
> 
> ...


How in God's name did the tag match with Benoit against the 2 Man Power Trip NOT make the list, and is only an honorable mention? That's like...the greatest TV match in history.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Best WWE Jericho Matches: (Not including matches with more than four participants)

vs. Michaels No Mercy 2008 *******
vs. Benoit Royal Rumble 2001 *****3/4*
vs. Michaels WM XIX *****3/4*
w/Benoit vs. Power Trip *****1/2*
vs. HHH Fully Loaded 2000 *****1/2*
vs. Rock No Mercy 2001 *****1/2*
vs. Punk Extreme Rules 2012 *****1/2*
vs. Mysterio Bash 2009 *****1/2*
vs. Michaels Judgment Day 2008 *****1/4*
vs. Punk WM XXVIII*****1/4*

An awesome career filled with an awesome catalog of matches. I do feel like I'm missing something.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I'd like to mention Jericho's match with Christian from Wrestlemania XX. Not because it's spectacular or anything, but I've always thought it was kind of underrated.

... ARM BAR!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jericho's stuff with Rock was excellent from 2000-2002 I thought. The No Mercy match is an obvious pick for one of Rock's best matches while the Royal Rumble encounter is awesome as well and around the same are ratings wise. Of course when I think of best Jericho matches I'm always going to pimp Jericho vs HHH from Fully Loaded 2000 as the 2000 MOTY and also the best match in either man's career but I felt that Trips did a majority of the awesomeness in that one. He was also in the greatest ladder match ever w/ Chris Benoit and had a great series of matches with Shawn Michaels so I don't know where I'd place Jericho honestly.

I've been gone all day but I'm back to finish off Vengeance 2005 and the cell match. "You are going to go one on one with the devil himself" ... "I'm gonna kick the devil's ASS!" :mark:.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Ratings for some Smackdown 2003 matches:*

Eddie Guerrero vs Nunzio 2/27/2003: ★★3/4 

Matt Hardy vs Chris Benoit 7/17/2003: ★★★1/2

Rey Mysterio vs Johnny Stamboli 10/16/03: ★★★

That Mysterio/Stamboli match was surprisingly good I must say.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Enjoy DAT GOAT CELL MATCH (or second or third)

Just came across this on Youtube. Some kind chap put all the crowd chants from the night after Mania.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

KO Bossy said:


> That's like...the greatest TV match in history.


_"Second best"__ - Ray from Scary Movie, the 1st._


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KingOfKings said:


> Cena vs Big Show from Judgment Day 2009 is awesome.
> 
> On another note ; ECW One Night Stand is a BAD show from a wrestling standpoint. I loved the Heyman promo and other assorted stuff but... This is just typical ECW garbage for alot of the show.





Big Z said:


> Of course ECW ONS was a bad show. It was trying to be like the original ECW which fucking blew chunks. Edge, Foley, Lita and FUNK saved ONS 06 from being as bad thankfully.


Throw in TAJIRI's match and I agree. Never cared for 2006's version of it. 2005 was a lot of fun for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Judgment Day 2005*


WWE Tag Team Championship - MNM vs Charlie Haas & Hardcore Holly : **** ¼*

Carlito vs The Big Show : *¾ *
*
Cruiserweight Championship - Paul London vs Chavo Guerrero : *** ½*

Kurt Angle vs Booker T :* * ¼*

United States Championship - Orlando Jordan vs Heidenreich : *DUD*

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio : ***** ¼*

WWE Championship (I Quit Match) - John Cena vs JBL : ***** ½*


The opener was surprisingly solid for me as the two teams went out there and kept things moving at a fast pace to get the crowd moving. HAAS looked awesome getting beaten down by the heels (who had a decent control segment mind you) and Hardcore even got his shots in, but the meat and potatoes for this one is the pace as it's just perfect for what it is; a fun, great opener with some awesome wrestling. That may surprise alot of people due to who is exactly in the match but trust me, you guys should definitely check this one out.

The Big Show vs Carlito match sucked and served the sole purpose of getting the eventual failed Carlito-Morgan relationship more over. The F-5 at the end was really nice but the work throughout the match was alot of pointless plodding material that I didn't enjoy. Big Show only works well as a babyface when he's faced with some sort of flaw such as his broken arm in the New Year's Revolution 2006 match with Triple H, or somebody who's going to repeatedly attack a body part anyways like Triple H in the first place. This wasn't very good but it had a nice looking finish, yay.

Paul London vs Chavo Guerrero was good. They were allowed to fly around and shit a little bit, but most of this was specific body part targeting by Chavo to the ribs of London which I was very impressed with. This likely deserves a higher rating but Chavo for me has the "Alberto Del Rio" factor in that I'm so uninterested in his character that I can't really get into what he's doing in the ring, even if sometimes it isn't bad in the slightest. Yeah so this was a good but possibly great match if that makes any fucking sense, London is boss.

"I wanna have sex with your wife" ... "My vice... IS GUTTERSLUTS" .. Don't you think that would warrant Booker T going insane and trying to MURDER Kurt Angle? That's exactly what he DOESN'T do in this match and a reason why I'm not a fan. Booker should have went straight into the match with the intention of killing Kurt Angle, even if it meant getting disqualified. Instead, they wrestle a standard match and he wins with a roll up of some sort? THE FUCK? Way to get revenge for your wife by pinning Kurt Angle with a standard roll up Booker, you're a stand up guy. This needed to be five minutes of Booker T just coming in and beating Angle down with a steel chair since he was, you know, A FUCKING RAPIST WHO ALLEGEDLY MOLESTED YOUR WIFE IN THE LOCKER ROOM. That's my problem with this match; it's "worked" just fine, but it lacks anything that should make up a good story which is a huge problem in my book.

Heidenreich vs Orlando Jordan, I don't know what dark satanic forces out there wanted me to suffer, but apparently they exist due to the fact that this match indeed exists. Heidenreich working as a babyface and bringing little kids to the ring to read them poetry while the little kid is overly enthusiastic about it? Orlando Jordan wrestling a match on PPV? Heidenreich wrestling a match on PPV? Heidenreich wrestling Orlando Jordan on PPV? FOR A TITLE? Anyways, this match was atrocious as one would expect as it told basically no story with a strong lack of coherence throughout. The incompetence of these two men astound me in the ring as I'm pretty sure there's only one good Orlando Jordan match (which I'll get to soon enough) and like 2 good Heidenreich matches with Undertaker. Ugh, avoid at all costs.

EDDIE GUERRERO VS REY MYSTERIO. One of the greatest pairings of all time of course gives us another classic match on PPV, which is crazy because considering it was only a few weeks later that these two would put on another classic, and then arguably ANOTHER classic at the Great American Bash. Eddie showed in this match with his character exactly why I feel he was bringing things to an even higher level before his death, as you can look at his slow dissolution into madness and his inner fear that he can't beat Rey coming out. Rey's babyface work is as potent as always, selling Eddie's heel beatdown like a boss and getting his offense in like somebody who is in a real blood feud. I said this before and I'll say it again; Eddie is the king of body language and facial expressions in his work. He can get across when he's frustrated perfectly, which is why this match ultimately succeeds as probably a top 100 match in company history, and a reason as to why the match a month from this PPV was so excellent also.

Don't really know how that match could be topped, but somehow it was in the main event as we got a really old school "I Quit" match between JBL and John Cena that pretty much MADE John Cena at the time, gave him his first classic match, and at the same time gave birth to the "never back down, never quit" character that saw it's seeds planted first at No Way Out with his refusal to tap out to the Angle Lock. Yeah, this was a fucking war with JBL effectively trying to MURDER Cena but Cena ultimately persevering and pulling through in the clutch, with JBL's heel work reaching PERHAPS it's apex here (bar the Judgment Day 2004 match w/ Eddie on this one) alongside Cena's defiant babyface performance. The brutality is kicked up 10 notches as Cena finds himself drenched in blood, the few "spots" in the match are on point and serve their purpose in the context of the story, and once the two main event run of Eddie-Rey and Cena-JBL was over I needed to smoke a cigarette or something because both were fucking SEX and made the show fantastic for me.

*Cal Scale Rating : 16.5*​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Going to watch and review Summerslam 2002 as soon as it's downloaded. I haven't watched the whole PPV from start to finish, only matches here and there, so it'll be interesting to see how it flows and whatnot, which is a big part of enjoying a PPV. I've heard many call it one of the GOAT non-WM PPVs. It also features arguably the most polarizing WWE matches of all time in GAME/HBK, a match that I haven't watched in a long time so I'm looking forward to see what side of the fence I fall on.

Any of you fancy throwing out some STARZ~ for Slam' 02?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

One of the best openers I can recall in Rey/Angle. Love HHH/HBK. BROCK/Rock was great as well. Crowd was awesome.

For those three, if I had to issue a rating:
Angle/Rey ***3/4
HHH/HBK ****1/2
BROCK/Rock ****


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I have the exact ratings TLK just posted. Great event indeed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H has come out on record saying that he feels his match with Shawn Michaels @ Summerslam 2002 happens to be his greatest match ever. I would STRONGLY disagree with that as it wouldn't even make my top 10 Triple H matches, but it's interesting to think how over the years Triple H has been involved in some FANTASTIC matches with Foley, Jericho, Rock, Undertaker, Batista, Benoit, etc .... yet he believes THAT is his greatest match. It's PROBABLY heavily biased due to it being his best friend's return match though, so I can completely understand why he would consider it to be his favorite match in addition to being his best match (I guess). IT'S NOT EVEN THE BEST HHH VS SHAWN MATCH!

Brock-Rock is one of my favorite matches ever as well.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Going to watch and review Summerslam 2002 as soon as it's downloaded. I haven't watched the whole PPV from start to finish, only matches here and there, so it'll be interesting to see how it flows and whatnot, which is a big part of enjoying a PPV. I've heard many call it one of the GOAT non-WM PPVs. It also features arguably the most polarizing WWE matches of all time in GAME/HBK, a match that I haven't watched in a long time so I'm looking forward to see what side of the fence I fall on.
> 
> Any of you fancy throwing out some STARZ~ for Slam' 02?




It definitely features HHH/HBKs best match IMO. Id give this match a ****1/2 rating.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Don't recall the other matches on the card as I haven't seen it in forever. If I recall correctly the event also included good matches between Flair/Jericho and Edge/Eddie.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> Triple H has come out on record saying that he feels his match with Shawn Michaels @ Summerslam 2002 happens to be his greatest match ever. I would STRONGLY disagree with that as it wouldn't even make my top 10 Triple H matches, but it's interesting to think how over the years Triple H has been involved in some FANTASTIC matches with Foley, Jericho, Rock, Undertaker, Batista, Benoit, etc .... yet he believes THAT is his greatest match. It's PROBABLY heavily biased due to it being his best friend's return match though, so I can completely understand why he would consider it to be his favorite match in addition to being his best match (I guess). IT'S NOT EVEN THE BEST HHH VS SHAWN MATCH!
> 
> Brock-Rock is one of my favorite matches ever as well.


That's intriguing, would be interesting to hear what he thought his own top 10 favourite matches were.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some SummerSlam 02 ratings:

Edge vs Eddie Guerrero - ★★★½
Undertaker vs Test - ★★½
Chris Benoit vs Rob Van Dam - ★★★★
Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★½
Brock Lesnar vs The Rock - ★★★★¼


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Don't recall the other matches on the card as I haven't seen it in forever. If I recall correctly the event also included good matches between Flair/Jericho and Edge/Eddie.


Flair/Jericho
Eddie/Edge
UnAmericans/Bookdust 
RVD/Benoit
Taker/Test

As well as the three you already know


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh damn forgot about RVD/Benoit. Really stacked card.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Don't remember anything about RVD/Benoit but now I'm intrigued.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Brock/Rock MOTN, but Trips/Shawn SS definitely > RAW 2003 imo.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

LOVE Trips/Shawn at Summerslam. Triple H just wants to cripple HBK, and he plays that well. Shawn was gone for four years and puts on that match?? GOAT for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/HBK SS ain't that good. Like most of their matches together. 2 best friends with absolutely horrible chemistry inside the ring. Bah.

I might like, actually watch some wrestling 2morrow. Work has been hectic this weekend so I haven't been arsed in the slightest. Kinda down on the whole wrestling scene as it is. Might have to throw in some random STEAMBOAT matches. He always gets me back into things . STEAMBOAT VS REGAL AND STEAMBOAT VS VADER. Yeah, that sounds good .


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Big Z said:


> HHH/HBK SS ain't that good. Like most of their matches together. 2 best friends with absolutely horrible chemistry inside the ring. Bah.


Not all of their matches are bad. Their European Championship match from Christmas Raw was a great match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never said ALL their matches were bad. That one is obviously an exception  (***** GOAT TV Match). As is Raw 03 and Raw 06.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HHH/HBK worst match is definitely they're HIAC match at bad blood. So slow paced and just no good spots IMO. 45 minutes of a snoozefest.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I still kinda like their HIAC match, I have it at ****1/2*. It is a slow match, and very long but I like the story they try and tell and it's fine for what it is. Obviously not anywhere near their best match though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips running the ropes in that European title match on the Christmas episode is :lmao. 

I liked HIAC, but understand why people don't. They could have started the finishing sequence at the halfway point and it still would have been long enough. Still haven't seen the Raw 03 match, and what is this Raw 2006 match that Cal is referring to?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching The Great American Bash 2005 now, Eddie is just beastin' it up in his match with Rey here. One of the all time great WWE performances that should get talked about more in all honesty, he was CLEARLY the best thing in the company and perhaps the entire fucking world at this point, with the former being somewhat indisputable.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HBK/HHH SS '02 went down on the last watch for me from ****1/2 to ****.

Still a great match and one of the GOAT PPVs.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/hhh ss 02 ****1/4
hbk/hhh raw 03 ****

Ive gone up on the hbk/hhh ss match recently and down on the raw one a bit


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching The Great American Bash 2005 now, Eddie is just beastin' it up in his match with Rey here. One of the all time great WWE performances that should get talked about more in all honesty, he was CLEARLY the best thing in the company and perhaps the entire fucking world at this point, with the former being somewhat indisputable.


I can't argue that since Randy was injured during that summer and Benoit was stuck with OJ. Eddie's performances as a heel were just on point. Such an amazing performer. Sucks that he had to go so soon.

On a related note to the 2005 PPVs, I've been meaning to give HBK vs Angle II another watch. Seeing as some prefer it to their WM match, it may overtake it although I would also need to refresh my memories for the WM match to give a fair opinion. Didn't like their Ironman match at all, though.

Their final match in early 2006 is forgettable. Angle was such an idiot there. He does a top rope Angle Slam on free TV, goes for the pin instantly and HBK has to kick out. Way to devalue a finisher! And then he whined about Orton "stealing" his move even though he has done nothing to maintain its credibility as a finisher. I don't know if it's even far fetched to say the Cobra has finished more matches than the Angle Slam followed by another Angle Slam and another Angle Slam!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Watching The Great American Bash 2005 now, Eddie is just beastin' it up in his match with Rey here. One of the all time great WWE performances that should get talked about more in all honesty, he was CLEARLY the best thing in the company and perhaps the entire fucking world at this point, with the former being somewhat indisputable.


Yup, no one was touching Eddie's heel work that year. Simply incredible. His heel promos were also some of his best work.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Y2j top matches
the Bash 09 ****3/4 (2nd moty right behind taker/hbk)
wm 19 (****1/2)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jericho's top 5 (singles) matches:

Vs HHH FL 00 LMS ****3/4
Vs Benoit RR 01 Ladder ****3/4
Vs Eddie FB 97 ****1/2
Vs Punk WM 28 ****1/2
Vs Benoit BL 00 ****1/4

Then MITB 1 and TLC III could both slot into the top 5 if I included tag/multiman matches. Hmmm... or maybe just one of them would. Both are better than the Benoit match. Not sure I'd place either above Punk at WM though.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Their final match in early 2006 is forgettable. Angle was such an idiot there. He does a top rope Angle Slam on free TV, goes for the pin instantly and HBK has to kick out. Way to devalue a finisher! And then he whined about Orton "stealing" his move even though he has done nothing to maintain its credibility as a finisher. I don't know if it's even far fetched to say the Cobra has finished more matches than the Angle Slam followed by another Angle Slam and another Angle Slam!


Angle was always a spotty wrestler imo. It's just that he wasn't as consistently spotty as he was by '05, '06. He always had that stupid mentality of relying on high spots to get over. He always over-relied on high spots as well as a billion and one reversals into the ankle lock to structure his matches. I also think that fans only started to notice this after he left WWE and just went batshit crazy in TNA.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cal, What's your rating for the Power Trip vs Jericho/Benoit tag?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/2-3/4.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Angle was always a spotty wrestler imo. It's just that he wasn't as consistently spotty as he was by '05, '06. He always had that stupid mentality of relying on high spots to get over. He always over-relied on high spots as well as a billion and one reversals into the ankle lock to structure his matches. I also think that fans only started to notice this after he left WWE and just went batshit crazy in TNA.


I didn't really notice it until I consistently started watching these old years. From 2003 onwards. During 2004, I noticed that he kept going for the Ankle Lock a million times and executed the Angle Slam like it was a DDT rest period kind of move.

Now that I'm at the end of 2006, I actually miss him. And ECW is an extra unneeded pain in the ass. I skim through the shows in like 5 minutes consistently because there's not a person in their roster I care about.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Predictions for Extreme Rules ratingz?

I'm hoping it goes like this:
- Cena/Ryback: *** (I'm hopeful)
- Ziggler/ADR/Swagger: **** or ****1/4
- HHH/Lesnar: ***3/4 or **** (again, I'm hopeful)
- Hell No/Shield: ****
- Orton/Show: ***1/4
- Sheamus/Henry: ***3/4
- Jericho/Fandango: ***
- Kaitlyn/AJ: **

God, if it delievers it may just be almost as good as last year's.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

- Cena/Ryback: *
- Ziggler/ADR/Swagger: **
- HHH/Lesnar: **1/2
- Hell No/Shield: ****
- Orton/Show: **3/4
- Sheamus/Henry: ***1/2
- Jericho/Fandango: **3/4
- Kaitlyn/AJ: *

Yeah I ain't expecting much from anything aside from HENRY/Sheamus and SHIELD/BRYAN & Kane.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Any thoughts on Jericho/RVD matches? Specifically Unforgiven 2001 and King Of The Ring 2002. I believe they had some matches on Raw in 2002 including a cage match too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I find predicting matches down to the exact star stupid. How the hell does one exactly predict a 3 or 4 star match? 

I can say what I do expect however. I expect Cena/Ryback to be good. Is there any sort of gimmick attached to it? I really don't even know the damn card lol. What the hell did Shield/Hell No get added or is that speculation? Anyway, if Cena/Ryback has some Extreme stip to it they can pull of a very good match. Just as long as it isn't Cena booking 101 where Ryback beats the piss out of him for 19 minutes and in the last minute Cena rebounds like that. 

The triple threat should be fun for the bumps. Should be good as well. Would have preferred just Ziggler/Del Rio though.

HHH/Lesnar can go either way. I'm of the few who enjoyed their Summerslam match but I absolutely hated their WM match. Not so sure about this one. Hopefully, there'll be BLOOD. 

Shield can never disappoint. Orton/Show should be decent. Sheamus/Henry :mark: If their Summerslam 2011 work is any indication of things to come, I think we're in for a treat. Jericho/Fandango....meh. Kaitlyn/AJ...meh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

- Cena/Ryback: **
- Ziggler/ADR/Swagger: **
- HHH/Lesnar: *** 1/2
- Hell No/Shield: *** 3/4
- Orton/Show: ** 1/4
- Sheamus/Henry: *** 1/4
- Jericho/Fandango: ** 1/2
- Kaitlyn/AJ: *

Don't forsee anything BAD on the show TBH.

EDIT: Yeah, fuck the Angle Slam.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Show is like the only thing I care about from the show. Lesnar vs HHH might be good this time due to my love for steel cages and Sheamus vs Henry will probably be decent too. I am half interested in Ryback vs Cena too but everything else... zero care.

Predicted ratings: (winners in bold)

*Cena* vs Ryback - ★★★
*Shield* vs Kane/Bryan - ★★★¼
Sheamus vs *Henry* - ★★★¼
*Orton* vs Show - ★★★½
HHH vs *Lesnar* - ★★★½
Swagger vs *Ziggler* vs ADR - ★★¾
Jericho vs *Fandango* - ★★


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wanna go back to more Angle talk 

I honestly find Angle one of the most annoying wrestlers of all time. He's so annoying to watch int he ring. In literally get a headache every time i see him bend and twist and bend and twist and troll around someone in the ankle lock.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

While I think the tweaking the ankle is dumb looking to, it's better than standing there doing nothing. It's wrestling but it's also trying to be entertaining and tweaking with the ankle trying to put more pressure on it is more entertaining than standing there doing nothing.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Chris Jericho's Top 10 Best Matches

1. Chris Benoit (Ladder Match) - Royal Rumble 2001 - **** 3/4
2. Shawn Michaels (Ladder Match) - No Mercy 2008 - **** 1/2
3. HHH (Last Man Standing) - Fully Loaded 2000 - **** 1/2
4. Rey Mysterio (Title vs. Mask) - THE BASH 2009 - **** 1/2
5. Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania XIX - **** 1/2
6. The Rock - No Mercy 2001 - **** 1/2
7. Eddie Guerrero - Fall Brawl 1997 - **** 1/4
8. w/Chris Benoit vs. Powertrip - Raw 2001 - **** 1/4
9. CM Punk - WrestleMania XXVIII - **** 1/4
10. Shawn Michaels - Judgment Day 2008 - ****

Honorable Mentions:

Rey Mysterio - Judgment Day 2009 - ****
Rey Mysterio (No DQ) - Extreme Rules 2009 - ****


Great Matches Multi-man matches Jericho was involved in (more than four people):

TLC III - Smackdown 2001 - **** 3/4
Winner Takes All - Survivor Series 2001 - **** 1/4
EC I - **** 1/4
EC III - New Year's Revolution 2005 **** 1/2
MITB I - WrestleMania 21 - **** 1/2


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

So I'm just reading everyone's predictions for the show, and no one thinks Ziggler/Swagger/Del Rio is going to be a good match then? I think it would of been decent as just a regular triple threat, but now that it's a ladder match I think it will be good and will surprise people. 

The feud and build-up has been bad in the World Title picture, and I think that is playing a part into people not having much expectations for the match, but I think when it comes to PPV time they'll deliver nicely.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah a ladder might be good. Del Rio did have an excellent ladder match in 2011 with Christian.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think the WHC match will be good, three hungry workers looking to impress and Ziggler taking DEM BUMPS off a ladder should be something to see.

I don't like to predict ratings, but matches I'm hoping/expecting to be good:

Shield/HellNo
Ziggler/Swagger/Del Rio
Sheamus/Henry
HHH/Lesnar


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Ladder match stipulation will make the match fresh, because let's face it, how many Ziggler/Del Rio matches or Swagger/Del Rio matches have we seen? Plenty. And a standard triple threat match wouldn't be much different. But a ladder match will ensure that we'll see a different approach to the match and that will make it fun imo. 

I'm not really excited for matches like Hell No/Shield or Sheamus/Henry much because they're not really fresh. HHH/Lesnar is the same. I'm interested in Ryback/Cena even though the match will probably suck, just because it's something different and Ryback has been pretty interesting since turning heel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ladder match on paper doesn't interest me because I'm expecting it to be a pointless spotfest tbh. I have extremely low expectations for the overall show, so hopefully I'll be surprised .


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Was going to do this on Saturday. Bah.



Spoiler: Barbed Wire Massacre - Not PG



*Jerry Lawler vs Dutch Mantell in a Barbed Wire match 29th of March 1982
*
I had a fairly sizable review through the match, but I opted to delete it. I was critical of the start, didn't enjoy it, and while they were playing pensively intentionally, it felt detrimental. However, as their war waged on, albeit with it clipped, I began to dig the match. The expressions, the determination to kill one another, the way it escalated into just pure brawling, from a very tentative start. Was slightly confused by the 10 count Mac from Always Sunny did, before deciding, na, fuck it. Ending worked great with Lawler just managing to get the pinfall.

One great plus point was the sole focus of the match wasn't the gimmick, it was their hatred. It was used very well to transcend their pensive start into a flurry of aggressive punches with ferocious determination, the way their war began to take the toll of both men and culminating in the man with the experience and tenacity becoming the victor was the main point of their story & match, and they made sure to try put across that the barbed wire was just a unique way to have a cage match. However, I prefer their No DQ match-up. Not by much. It gets a ****. I'll need to revisit their feud at some point, and maybe try find a non clipped version to help.

Shall throw this in, *Rock n Roll Express & Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd July 2nd 1984*

The rematch, of in my opinion, an all time great six man tag. But I enjoyed this one nowhere near as much. Felt Ladd had too much offence, they went through the same structuring, and the Midnights were less greatness. It seemed everything was toned down, and if Watts fining them after the first match is true, then it's no wonder this match lacks the goodies the first one brought. Despite the disappointment, the match was still, if it was a standalone, good. And that is the most praise I can muster for it. ***1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ladder match does add intrigue to the match and helps the two boring wrestlers involved ( not :ziggler1 ). Brock/hhh can go either way I like their ss 12 battle aswell and hated their wm one. @desecrated I checked out that flair/jimmy match you were talking about yesterday **** for me that camera angle throws it off alittle


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The match I have high expectations for the most is the Ziggler/Del Rio/Swagger ladder match. If it's anything like the Kofi/Ziggler/Swagger ladder match at TLC 2010, then it should be a fun match. Definitely looking forward to it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Extreme Rules? I think it should be good. As KoK said, I don't see anything on the show being BAD. I'm one of the few people who liked both HHH/Lesnar matches so I'm looking forward to that. Shield always deliver so I'll be surprised if their match is anything less than very good. Same goes for Sheamus/Henry. I'm hoping the ladder match is good and not just your run of the mill spotfest but either way it should be fun, while I expect Orton/Show and Jericho/Fandango to be solid, yet unspectacular under-card matches. Cena/Ryback is bleh to me but ya never know.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Jericho's top-10 best matches:

1) Jericho vs. Benoit at Royal Rumble '01. ★★★★3/4
2) Jericho vs. Triple H at Fully Loaded '00. ★★★★3/4
3) Jericho vs. Michaels at WrestleMania 19. ★★★★1/2
4) Jericho & Benoit vs. Two-Man Power Trip. ★★★★1/2
5) Jericho vs. Mysterio at The Bash '09. ★★★★1/2
6) Jericho vs. Michaels at No Mercy '08. ★★★★1/2
7) Jericho vs. Michaels at Judgment Day '08. ★★★★1/4
8) Jericho vs. Punk at Extreme Rules '12. ★★★★1/4
9) Jericho vs. Rock at No Mercy '01. ★★★★
10) Jericho vs. Rock at Royal Rumble '02. ★★★★

Cena vs. Ryback just screams FORCED and MEH to me. Wondering if there's even going to be a stipulation in this. Tables Match would be fine by me and by the WWE apparently.

Not interested in seeing Triple H and Lesnar III in the slightest, even if it's contested in a Steel Cage. Didn't like their two previous matches and this one should be no different. Would have much rather the feud ended at WrestleMania. 

Got high expectations for Ziggler vs. Del Rio vs. Swagger at Extreme Rules. Just a regular non-gimmick Triple Threat would've been decent, but adding the Ladder Match stipulation gives it the potential to be very good. And I think the stipulation is perfect seeing as how all three are Money in the Bank winners. No idea why people think this match will be bad, there isn't a single bad wrestler in there.

Shield haven't disappointed me since their debut and their run has been impressive thus far. Never seen a time when they haven't delivered. Looking forward to their Tag Team Championship match with Team Hell-No the most. They have quite the chemistry, especially going back to their BEAST match at TLC.

Could care less about Orton vs. Show and Sheamus vs. Henry in all honesty, but they could end up being pretty solid matches. Who knows? Same with Jericho vs. Fandango, which I assume will be added to the card soon.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That's irrelevant said:


>


HOLY FUCK, THANK YOU! Been looking for that Eddie cage promo since it aired.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nice little match here. From Fall Brawl '96


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Extreme Rules? I think it should be good. As KoK said, I don't see anything on the show being BAD. I'm one of the few people who liked both HHH/Lesnar matches so I'm looking forward to that. Shield always deliver so I'll be surprised if their match is anything less than very good. Same goes for Sheamus/Henry. I'm hoping the ladder match is good and not just your run of the mill spotfest but either way it should be fun, while I expect Orton/Show and Jericho/Fandango to be solid, yet unspectacular under-card matches. Cena/Ryback is bleh to me but ya never know.


I liked both HHH/Lesnar matches too, but I'm finding it very hard to care for a third match. I found it hard to care for their match at WrestleMania, but they delivered. The match just seems unnecessary, but whatever, let Brock get the win to end the feud and Brock can get some credibility back to build him to the next big match for him, most likely Brock/Rock. I think they need to do something different with this match, I get that's it's a cage match and that will be a different dynamic, but there needs to be more. With this being the grudge match, I think they should end it in a bloody all-out war in the cage, but I won't get my hopes up that we will get any blood. There should of been blood in their Mania match, but there wasn't. I just think having some blood in their match could be a good dynamic to end their personal feud.

You have a point about The Shield but I can't say I'm looking forward to that match too much. Solid match? Yes as always. But they've been feuding with Team Hell No since last December lol. The Shield hopefully winning the Tag Titles would be cool though, have any member of them defend the belts with the Freebird rule would be neat. Having them dominate the Tag Division would be something different, which is needed with The Shield as they're getting a little stale imo.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Since I got heat for my Backlash review, since it's May I'll do a Judgment Day show which I enjoyed: 2002. This was an historic show for the right or wrong reasons lol.

Theme is "Broken" by 12 Stones

Eddie vs RVD: ***
Trish vs Stacy: *(liked the aftermath)
Bork and Heyman vs the Hardy Boyz: **
Stone Cold vs Big Show and Ric Flair: ***(surprisingly entertaining)
Kurt Angle vs Edge: ***3/4
Y2J vs HHH HIAC: ****1/4
Billy and Chuck vs Rikishi and Rico: *1/4
Hogan vs Taker: *

7.5/10. If the main event delivered it could have been Summerslam/Survivor Series 2002 territory. Still better than present day Wrestlemanias and most stuff nowadays. The BookDust scene was hilarious.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> Yup, no one was touching Eddie's heel work that year. Simply incredible. His heel promos were also some of his best work.


Two of my favorites.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Any thoughts on Jericho/RVD matches? Specifically Unforgiven 2001 and King Of The Ring 2002. I believe they had some matches on Raw in 2002 including a cage match too.


The Unforgiven match gets a lot of 4* love but they have some really odd mishaps and botches in the first half of the match that bring it down for me. It's fun stuff in the latter half but almost all of the big spots are rehashed from the Jericho/Benoit Ladder match. Went *** 1/4 on it. KOTR '02 is fuzzy for me but I recall liking it a lot, know it's on the RVD One of a Kind set.



That's irrelevant said:


> *Ratings for some Smackdown 2003 matches:*
> 
> Eddie Guerrero vs Nunzio 2/27/2003: ★★3/4
> 
> ...


(Y) Gotta love Smackdown in '03. You should check out the Thanksgiving Battle Royal. REALLY good stuff when it comes down to the final four. (Cena/Shelton/Eddie/Benoit)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Going to watch and review Summerslam 2002 as soon as it's downloaded. I haven't watched the whole PPV from start to finish, only matches here and there, so it'll be interesting to see how it flows and whatnot, which is a big part of enjoying a PPV. I've heard many call it one of the GOAT non-WM PPVs. It also features arguably the most polarizing WWE matches of all time in GAME/HBK, a match that I haven't watched in a long time so I'm looking forward to see what side of the fence I fall on.
> 
> Any of you fancy throwing out some STARZ~ for Slam' 02?


Been a bit since I last saw the rest in the middle, but the opener & main event are fresh/forever slated:

Angle/Mysterio ~ ****1/2 (my personal favorite opener in WWE history. dunno of anything else that comes close)

Jericho vs Flair ~ **1/2

Guerrero vs Edge ~ ***1/2

Christian/Storm vs Booker/Goldust ~ ***3/4

RVD vs Benoit ~ ***3/4 - **** (I LOVE this match.)

Undertaker vs Test ~ ***

Trips vs Michaels ~ idk. Desperately need to reform an opinion on it. Last watch I liked it.

Brock vs Rock ~ ****

Brilliant show for life. Even with my memory the only average/above average match I recall is Jericho vs Flair. Which was still quite a bit of fun.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Trips/HBK is 5* for me, as I've said many a times now. Amazing stuff.

The topic of Angle/Mysterio being a great opener brings up the discussion of what exactly _is _the greatest WWE/F opening match of all time?

Rockers vs. Orient Express from Rumble '91?
Hart vs. Hart at Mania X?
2011 Smackdown Money in the Bank Ladder Match???


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh dammit all. Rockers vs Orient Express. Leave it to be a tag team match to make me ALMOST second guess Angle vs Mysterio as being my favorite opener in WWF/WWE history.

All depends on personal preference at the end of the day. All listed could work. Well, not sure about the MITB ladder match. It doesn't compare to the other three listed, imo. Even though it is great.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, I just kinda randomly threw it out there to make it an even 3. haha. I imagine Hart/Hart is the obvious choice.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

That's irrelevant said:


>


Instances such as this promo from Eddie is one of many examples why I consider Eddie of the most talented wrestlers in the industry's history. This was a perfectly written and performed promo. You question who is really the best, who really is the most talented and gifted with all the tools, then behold the work of Eddie Guerrero.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^:clap

Eddie <3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Trips/HBK is 5* for me, as I've said many a times now. Amazing stuff.
> 
> The topic of Angle/Mysterio being a great opener brings up the discussion of what exactly _is _the greatest WWE/F opening match of all time?
> 
> ...


Hart/Hart and Rockers/Orients would have to be my 1 and 2. Angle/Mysterio's top 5 at worst. MNM/Hardys RR07 is top something. Maybe top 5, but I'd have to actually look at what match opened what show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FInals week for me havent even paid attention to raw at all anything special ?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Trips/HBK is 5* for me, as I've said many a times now. Amazing stuff.
> 
> The topic of Angle/Mysterio being a great opener brings up the discussion of what exactly _is _the greatest WWE/F opening match of all time?
> 
> ...


psychosis vs rey jr @ bash at the beach 96 is way up there to but at the end of the day i'd say the hart battle


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Rating predictions for ER:

- Cena/Ryback: *1/2
- Ziggler/ADR/Swagger: **
- HHH/Lesnar: *
- Hell No/Shield: ***
- Orton/Show: **1/4
- Sheamus/Henry: ***1/2
- Jericho/Fandango: *1/2
- Kaitlyn/AJ: *

Don't see this being very good at all. But I haven't been watching any RAWs since Punk left so I obviously don't feel any hype for this. I'll check out the Shield match and Sheamus/Henry since those are the only ones that could probably be decent.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Predictions for ER?

Cena/Ryback with the LMS might be interesting, but it's going to be heavily reliant on spots no doubt. How good those spots are will determine the match.

Lesnar/HHH... I'm not sure what to expect tbh. Part of me is expecting another boring brawl, but I think the cage alone will make the match better than the Mania match as it'll keep them inside the ring. Don't think it'll be good like their Summerslam match though and ultimately I'm expecting another mediocre match. Lesnar will win by just barely escaping the cage.

Shield match against Hell No is my predicted match of the night. Bryan in babyface in peril mode is awesome and if they use that in this match like they did at TLC, it'll be one hell of a match. Shield wins

Orton/Show will probably be terribly slow and uneventful. Orton wins.

Henry/Sheamus has potential. This is one of two matches I think could truly challenge The Shield match for "MOTN' title. Sheamus wins obviously.

WHC Triple Threat Ladder is the other match that could be MOTN. So much potential between these three, all of which are very good in-ring workers at the least. Ziggler retains the strap.

Jericho/Fandango... meh, Fandango wins

AJ wins the divas title


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So many rating predictions for Extreme Rules when only 4 matches have been announced.  I'll probably just end up buying it due to how EXTREMELY (pun intended???) consistent the PPV has been the past few years. The triple main event is really intriguing in an 'how will all 3 of these play out?' kind of way.



bigbuxxx said:


> psychosis vs rey jr @ bash at the beach 96 is way up there to but at the end of the day i'd say the hart battle


Always wanted to see that one, but I think it's only on Rey's 619 dvd (have both his other sets but not that). One of these days I'll give it a watch.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> FInals week for me havent even paid attention to raw at all anything special ?


Brock destroying Game's office with Heyman commentating was pretty gold. 

Mark Henry was GOAT on commentary. Said Michael Cole was "ate up with stupid" and told JBL, "Bradsaw, carry this like you always do."

That was it. Oh, and apparently Ryback still rules.

Edit: Shield wrestled Usos/Kofi (remember, the US champ), and had probably their least successful match yet. Ambrose pinned Kofi with his snapmare driver.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ryback is so bad.

From his awkwardly slow pacing to his awkward/goofy facial expressions, I never really see the guy as menacing or threatening at all, he just looks kind of, well.......... AWKWARD & GOOFY.

I'm REALLY hoping they one off this thing with Cena & Ryback and just move on to something different for Payback.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still don't hate Ryback. Seem him have some good - really good matches too. Not saying that was b/c of him more than it was via his opponents helping him. Point stands.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Not to mention Ryback/Cena is too predictable (surprise, surprise). Last Man Standing (THEIR FIRST MATCH TOGETHER) and the story will be can Cena withstand the attack and the 10 count. MOAR ODDZ TO OVERCOME


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I think the triple threat ladder match for the World Heavyweight Championship will steal the show at Extreme Rules, I really do.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Best of WWF In Your House - Disc 1*

Bret Hart vs. Hakushi - ***
_In Your House 1 - 5/14/1995_

*WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Jeff Jarrett (c) vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
_In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks - 7/23/1995_

*WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Dean Douglas (c) vs. Razor Ramon - *
_In Your House 4: Great White North - 10/22/1995_

*Arkansas Hog Pen Match
*Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Henry Godwinn - 1/2 *
_In Your House 5: Season's Beatings_ - _12/17/1995_

*WWF Championship
*Bret Hart (c) vs. The British Bulldog - ****
_In Your House 5: Season's Beatings - 12/17/1995_


- Not the best Bret Hart vs. Hakushi encounter, but a good one. They weren't on the same page at all in the opening minutes but settled in nicely and had a very fun last few minutes full of big bumps and countout teases. Shinja's constant involvement was a nice touch and stacked the deck against Bret, but I felt the finish was a little rushed. Their RAW match (_Dungeon Collection Blu Ray_) from the same year was even better.

- Michaels vs. Jarrett is still tremendous but also seems to get overrated a tad. Great match due to Shawn's crazy ass bumping and extremely fast pace when he's in control, and it pretty much remained a fun contest throughout with all of Roadie's involvement. Finish was pretty creative too.

- Ramon vs. Douglas is 11 minutes of BORING with an absolutely awful finish. Rather terrible inclusion, end of story.

- Hog Pen match is fucking gross. I can't imagine the type of infections Hunter got from that open cut on his back. Why is this on dvd again?

- Bret vs. Davey Boy is one hell of a war. The blood really adds a lot of lure to the match and makes it come across as even more of an epic battle, which is always a plus. My rating has gone down a little bit due to the finish being kinda random & some slow parts while Bulldog's on offense but still a great match and one of Bret's best title defenses. I may actually have their Summerslam '92 encounter over this one, but I haven't seen that in a while either.​


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

KingOfKings said:


> Ryback is so bad.
> 
> From his awkwardly slow pacing to his awkward/goofy facial expressions, I never really see the guy as menacing or threatening at all, he just looks kind of, well.......... AWKWARD & GOOFY.
> 
> I'm REALLY hoping they one off this thing with Cena & Ryback and just move on to something different for Payback.


He's literally the worst. Can't stand to watch him for a second because he's embarrassingly bad at everything.

To put it nicely.

Edit: Ziggler/ADR/Swagger is a ladder match, huh? That bumps my rating prediction up big time. I expect a good spotfest there.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *WWF Championship
> *Bret Hart (c) vs. The British Bulldog - ****
> _In Your House 5: Season's Beatings - 12/17/1995_


Meltzer gave this ****3/4. I have no idea how.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 John Cena Matches Ever (25-16)*


25.









WWE Championship - John Cena Vs Triple H (Night of Champions 2008) : ******


24.









John Cena Vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 7/22/04) : ******


23.









WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Umaga (New Year's Revolution 2007) : ******


22.









John Cena Vs CM Punk (RAW 8/22/11) : ******


21.









WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Triple H Vs Edge (Backlash 2006) : ******


20.









WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Randy Orton Vs Edge Vs Shawn Michaels (Backlash 2007) : ******


19.









John Cena & Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker & Batista (No Way Out 2007) : ******


18.









WWE Championship - John Cena Vs Randy Orton(c) (I Quit Match; Breaking Point 2009) : ******


17.









WWE Championship - John Cena Vs Randy Orton(c) (No Way Out 2008) : ******


16.









John Cena Vs Batista (Summerslam 2008) : ******



OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY. We've reached the REALLY fucking great stuff at this point and I'm pleased to reveal some of my top 25 to you all. The Triple H match is a no-brainer and considered by many to be the best in the Cena-HHH series above the Wrestlemania XXII encounter and BOY we'll get to that one later. It's a fantastic fucking match and the face vs face dynamic works better for Hunter than most heel vs face dynamics wherein Hunter's the face anyways (think Hardy-HHH). The match is awesome and if you haven't seen it you should check it out (repeat that statement x10 for all of these matches, that's why they've been placed in such high regard by myself).

The Undertaker match is an indicator of just how good these two would be in a Wrestlemania match together, and also Cena's first recorded four star match in my eyes. The face vs face dynamic was again very good for these two, and the idea of Cena hanging with Taker despite Taker being THE PHENOM and Cena not really breaking through yet seemed to mean a hell of alot more than the two's Vengeance 2003 encounter (which was placed earlier on the list mind you). Deadman Taker is awesome, Thuganomics Cena is awesome, and the two characters clashing in a match with some time behind it was truly a sight to behold and proved that Cena belonged in the main event. Undertaker's best match in 2004 also.

The Umaga match will always be an underrated gem in my eyes, as it's typical bread and butter Cena; stack him up against a big guy, stack the odds against him, and watch that fucker kick it into a separate gear that only he could go into in 2007. When it comes to big man opponents, nobody seemed to match up better with Cena than the Samoan Bulldozer either. Umaga kicks the shit out of Cena in this one while Cena masterfully crafts a comeback which is halted by Umaga time and time again, with a finish that fit perfectly to the story of the match and ensured a return match between the two. While most point to their Last Man Standing match a few weeks later as being the AWESOME match of the Cena-Umaga series, you certainly can't go wrong with this one either.

CM Punk vs John Cena is without a shadow of a doubt this generation's defining rivalry. It's fitting too, as they have some of the best chemistry that I've ever seen apart from HBK/Taker, Austin/Bret, & MAYBE HHH/Foley in WWE lore. This RAW match for number one contendership was certainly no exception either as these two exchanged counter after counter and kept the pace fast and furious as only they can, incorporating various callback spots to earlier in the year and adding a few great false finishes to top things off. These two just go out there and CLICK and this is the perfect example of a match being so well put together that you can't really put it into words what makes it great.

The two Backlash multi-man matches are fucking awesome, with the Backlash 2006 match being a personal favorite of mine as it was essentially during the Triple H "King of Kings" run, and the Backlash one featuring some of the best pacing I've ever seen in a multi-man match in my entire life. The 2006 match featured better character work and development I felt, while the 2007 one was more of an excitement based match with nearfalls and flawless transitioning throughout the entire match. I'll give the edge to the 2007 bout however, because I felt that it was better at what it was supposed to be than the 2006 encounter, but personally you can't go wrong with either one. 2006 is more of CENA's match though, so take that for what it's worth.

The No Way Out tag is fucking :mark: worthy due to the sheer fact of having the greatest in-ring pairing in WWE history in the ring together, while Batista/Cena, Batista/HBK, & Cena/Taker certainly aren't bad chemistries either. HBK & Taker did their thing with awesome selling, brilliantly crafted offense, and wonderful transitioning throughout the match while Cena & Batista played along and kept things moving along. If you're a fan of the HBK/Taker matches (let's be honest here, who isn't), you'll love this one. Cena's performance was excellent as well but rather low key given his role in the match up.

The pair of Orton matches here were two matches that I felt stood head and shoulders above the rest of their series by FAR. As a matter of fact, I thought these matches were so close in quality that I flip flopped them on my list about a dozen times before deciding ultimately that the No Way Out encounter was the slightly, SLIGHTLY better of the two. That's not to say the Breaking Point I Quit Match is a slouch; it's "The Viper's" finest piece of character work with Cena playing the role of the defiant babyface quite excellently. Loved to finish from top to bottom as ell as I believe HOL came in here and gave an allegory to Harry & Voldemort that I marked out for. The No Way Out match however, despite being a completely different match, manages to be even better; Orton is adamant about pinning Cena throughout the match, but when he slowly starts to realize that he can't pin Cena.... He tries to find ways to get him out of the match as fast as fucking possible. Class A storytelling from both affairs and the clear cut best pair of Cena/Orton matches out there by a fucking MILE.

The Batista match was essentially a "clash of the titans" type affair executed brilliantly; the sequences in the match enhanced the story, there was no "filler" material, and everything was kept simple; two big stars beating the crap out of one another and their can only be one winner. In contrast to the Orton matches telling more complex stories, these two always managed to keep in simple and it's why I feel that they've had two AWESOME matches together (we MIGHT get to another one later) and also have some underrated chemistry bar one of the matches they had on PPV. The false finishes were fantastic and it was just one of those blockbuster type matches that only come around every so often that delivers up to it's name. 

- Evan






​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Meltzer gave this ****3/4. I have no idea how.


Watching it live in '95 I can see why it'd be such a big deal with all the blood and the brother in law story going in. 

----------

That NWO '07 tag is something I really need to watch again. I've seen it twice already but never went higher than *** 1/4. Remember there being some weird structure issues (finishers in the middle of the match maybe?) and the turn at the end was really predictable. Everyone else seems to love it though..


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought Ryback added more to the Bryan match on SmackDown this week than anything I've seen him do ever. It was a Bryan Show but Ryback looks like OK heel foil for more talented people. Like, I'd actually be interested what Evan Bourne or Christian could do with him. I think someone like one of those two could make something good with him, unlike babyface Ryback who had matches where CM Punk was carrying the load with his facial expressions and mannerisms and it still stunk. I really, really don't think he belongs terribly high on a card, though. 

Cena's bread and butter is monsters, so at the very least he COULD do something with the Ryback at the PPV, right? Hopefully it's a short match.

--------------------------

Watched for tha first time in evah~

Kurt Angle v. Brock Lesnar (SmackDown 9/18/03)
I've never seen an iron man really done badly, but they can get kind of boring and the guys run out of stuff to do. That happened here a little, and my mind started to wander at certain parts. With that said most of this was damn good. Lesnar was pretty great. At the beginning he's ducking away, escaping Angle, going to the outside and trying to create a ton of space for himself. When Angle actually follows him outside Lesnar gets the match in his favour, so that's a cool little theme thingy. I don't know how much of this Lesnar actually spent in control, but it was a goddamn lot of it. His big spots were cool- the F-5 on the outside, the Rick Rude DQ strategy, some other shit, etc. Angle was good at looking exhausted, and even if I thought some of the comebacks came a little too easy, not once was I bothered by his use of suplexes and stuff. Not sure why, it kind of worked here. Maybe they were spaced out and he wasn't popping, and they instead looked like hope spots. If anything bothered me it would be the fact he throws the shittiest punches ever. I can't say I was into this whole thing, but at the same time I was kind of surprised by how 'into it' I was. It's difficult to make an interesting 60 minute match and I don't really like the other two matches these guys had so I wasn't expecting it. This is a 'good not great' thing for me and I have nothing more to say. Well, I turned off their WrestleMania match out of boredom the last time I tried to watch it and I didn't do that here for the whole hour, so yeah, that's something.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Watched Michaels/Undertaker Hell in a Cell last night. Still not getting GOAT vibes. The match is very cleverly worked (except for some dumb stuff here and there but idrc about them). Brilliant use of the cell, great spots on the top, great booking with Kane entry etc. *****1/2*

Also, Cena/Orton BP >>>>>>>>>> NWO imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *The Best of WWF In Your House - Disc 1*
> 
> Bret Hart vs. Hakushi - ***
> _In Your House 1 - 5/14/1995_
> ...


Ramon vs Douglas was put on it? :lmao

You're much lower on Hart/Hakushi & Michaels/Jarrett than I am. **** & ****3/4, imo. 

Yep. I think Michaels vs Jarrett is THAT great. I ride the Jarrett gravy train in '95.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I like the Ryback, though I do sour on him at times. It's has more to do with his character (work) than his ring work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever since he's gone heel I've enjoyed him more than usual. Another solid promo tonight. Minority opinion I'm sure. I got no beef.

Brock, Henry, & Cesaro tonight guys. First two were awesome per usual. Cesaro finally won. Holy buckets it could mean something. He'll lose on Main Event, but perhaps this same ol tripe vs Orton could mean a rub following another dominate performance. WWE roped me in again via nativity/love for Cesaro. Hope I don't leave with egg on my face. I probably will. Ugh @ it being Orton again. Couldn't it have been Sheamus? That rematch would have rocked. Especially with the time given on Main Event.

I really don't even try to only "mark" for heel either. It just happens to go that way. Company is to blame.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *The Best of WWF In Your House - Disc 1*
> 
> Bret Hart vs. Hakushi - ***
> _In Your House 1 - 5/14/1995_
> ...


I agree with most of this, except I have Bret/Hakushi at ***1/2

I picked that set up recently but I haven't gone on to the next set of matches yet. It has the Shawn/Mankind match from Mind Games and the fatal four way from Final Four... two matches that have been praised but I haven't seen either.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I thought Michaels/Jarrett was pretty average, like under 3 stars level. Mankind/HBK is obviously a wrestling classic but the horrible finish ruins it for me. Not high on Final Four either like I know most people are. Give me the Backlash 07 4-Way over it any day.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I should watch the Final Four match right now. Been too long. Only remember Vader's mangled face & the finish.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuck it, I'm looking forward to ER. Brock/Trips is fine with me, Shield match is fine with me and I'm pretty sure Seamus/Henry and the ladder match will be worth their salt, even if the ladder is just a spotfest. I don't care if it is, bumps and spotz are perfect for a feud I don't give a shit about. Cena/Ryback in a LMS is fine with me too. My new philosophy regarding WWE is fuck everything, it's just a TV show and I shouldn't be over-analysing every single little thing that happens so yeah, fuck it all. I'm not about to go predicting star ratings for every match though, that's just weird but I look forward to the show and I'm buying it too. 

In other news :brock and :heyman are fucking GODS. That is all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I see Silvervision are now starting to remove items from the website, im going to try and make one last PPV order tomorrow.

Damn, im gonna miss 'em.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Heyman whistling the Fandango theme in the lift was worth watching Raw alone.

Rolling :lmao

Also, Ryback is still awful. why waste Shield against Uso's & Kofi? fpalm


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Ramon vs Douglas was put on it? :lmao
> 
> You're much lower on *Hart/Hakushi* & Michaels/Jarrett than I am. **** & ****3/4, imo.
> 
> Yep. I think Michaels vs Jarrett is THAT great. I ride the Jarrett gravy train in '95.


If you're that high on their IYH match then you've gotta have their RAW match way up there, right? (if you've seen it of course) I thought that one was comfortably better.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Sup guys. I've been lurking for ages trying to get a "lay of the land" so to speak, and I've come to the conclusion that this thread seems to be the only thread in the WWE sections worth posting in. I don't know how you've done it, but you seem to have created somewhat of a haven for discussion that doesn't devolve into nothing more than bitching and moaning, so kudos.

Anyways, I recently had to cancel my sky sports subscription and so haven't had a chance to see both, the past two episodes of Raw or Smackdown. Any chance anyone could give me a little list of anything worth watching from those shows? 

Cheers in advance.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bryan/Ryback
Cesaro/Kofi

I haven't seen them yet but those seem to be the two matches people are talking about most. Then of course there's the instant classic of Brock vs. Trips Office. 

:brock

If you haven't watched the Hell No/Taker vs. Shield match from Raw in the UK then watch that.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

The Shawn Michaels Story: Heartbreak & Triumpth or Shawn Michaels: My Journey

are any of these worth watching? If so, which one is the better?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Both HBK DVD's are worth watching. Heartbreak and Triumph is more doc with matches, while My Journey is mostly matches with commentary.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

coming from a guy like me both lol, but iwatchwresting is correct ,


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

I think I'll go with Heartbreak & Triumpth first then as that came out before. Thanks guys.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About to watch another personal favorite of mine from 2005; Summerslam 2005.

God I love this show.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just seen the Best of IYH too:

Hart/Hakushi- ***1/2
Jarret/HBK- ****
Ramon/Douglas- ***
HHH/Goodwin- **1/4
Hart/Bulldog- ****1/2
HBK/Diesel-****
HBK/Mankind- *****+
Austin/HHH- ***1/2
Taker/Mankind- ***1/2
Austin/Vader/Taker/Hart- ***3/4
HBK/Taker (GZ)- ****1/4
Austin/Hart/Mankind/Chainsaw vs HHH/NAO/Vega- ***
Austin&Taker/Mankind&Kane- ***
Shamrock/Mankind- ***1/4
Rock/Mankind- **3/4
Hart/Austin (ROTT)- ***1/2
Michinoku/Christopher- ***
HBK/Shamrock- ***3/4
D'Lo Brown/X-Pac- **1/2

Overall it was a great DVD, but still I found the Mick Foley's one better


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Canadian Stampede tag isn't on that IYH DVD?


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Bryan/Ryback
> Cesaro/Kofi
> 
> I haven't seen them yet but those seem to be the two matches people are talking about most. Then of course there's the instant classic of Brock vs. Trips Office.
> ...


Cheers, I'll get on watching those on youtube when I get a chance. And yes, I have seen Hell No/taker vs The Shield. Honestly, although it was far from bad, I was left underwhelmed. It may have been that I was just expecting too much, and yes, it was definitely good, but considering the people involved I guess I just expected a MOTYC, whereas what I felt we got was no more than good.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Canadian Stampede tag isn't on that IYH DVD?


It is, probably that was the match I skipped. Was it good, never watched it


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Canadian Stampede tag isn't on that IYH DVD?


Pretty sure it is.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> It is, probably that was the match I skipped. Was it good, never watched it


Fucking awesome. Seriously, watch it!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah one of the better matches on that entire set if it's on there (judging by the others you listed).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Matt Hardy vs Edge from Summerslam 2005 is easily the best sub five minute match in WWE Company history, and one of the better viewing experiences I've had in a while. In addition to the match being so organic and non WWE-esque, the match also serves as a reminder that proper feud progression is essentially dead. 

GOD I hope I can enjoy the Eddie vs Rey Ladder Match this time around.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Mysterio/Guerrero ladder match is hilarious for all the wrong reasons


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gonna watch some eddie/rey today :mark: am I the only one that has the 6/05 sd match over the hh97 ?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sorry for the small review, haven't got a lot of time 
*
Summerslam 2002*

Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle - ****
Chris Jericho vs. Ric Flair - ** 3/4
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero - *** 
The UnAmericans vs. Booker T and Goldust - *** 1/2
Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Benoit - *** 3/4
The Undertaker vs. Test - ** 3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - ****
Brock Lesnar vs. The Rock - ****

One of, if not the best PPV opener ever. Two harmless matches in the form of Test/Taker and Y2J/Flair. A good matches with Edge/Eddie, a great match with the tag team title match which is further evidence as to why BookDust were one of the best things of 2002. A near classic in Benoit/RVD and two great Main Events. The selling issue in HBK/HHH wasn't that much of an issue to me but I was focusing on it during the match and I completely expected it heading in to it. It by no means stopped it from being a great match, but it certainly did stop it from being a classic, all-time great match but there for what it is, it's a top, top contest. And I love the Main Event, if not for the quality of the match it's self, but for the significance of it and where it would lead for Lesnar - One of the most most impressive and consistent 18 month - 2 year runs, ever.

Top quality PPV and definitely one of the greatest shows of all time, alongside Wrestlemania 19, Vengeance 05, MITB 11, and Extreme Rules 2012.

Edit: @redskins25, if you're on about the 23/6/05 Smackdown match, then no you're not, I have that as a top five TV match ever, possibly top three.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thought Mysterio-Guerrero was GOOD, but extremely flawed this time around. They did the best they could with the circumstances surrounding the match whether it be the retarded gimmick/storyline that the match took place in, or the fact that there were some mishaps such as Vickie not showing up in time for her spot (Eddie freaking out is fucking PRICELESS). Better than the Mania match by a mile but doesn't touch the Judgment Day or Bash matches in terms of 2005 encounters.

6/23/2005 is the gold standard no doubt.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Angle/Rey is far from the best PPV opener. Hart/Hart, Psychosis/Rey are the tops. I'm sure I could think of a couple more too.



KingOfKings said:


> Matt Hardy vs Edge from Summerslam 2005 is easily the best sub five minute match in WWE Company history, and one of the better viewing experiences I've had in a while. In addition to the match being so organic and non WWE-esque, the match also serves as a reminder that proper feud progression is essentially dead.


Brock/Show Survivor Series is better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar destroying HHH's office on Raw was the most awesome comedy skit WWE have produced in a LONG time. I rarely, RARELY find their form of humour entertaining, but this was fucking beautiful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KOK (or Evan which I may have to start referring to you as ), another solid piece with that top 100 Cena list. I've been thinking of copying your idea and do a similar project for Orton by watching all his TV matches (and obviously PPV) and putting together a list. Top 100 too. 

Trying to predict what your top 15 will include: 3-4 Punk matches, LESNAR, at least two HBK matches, Umaga LMS, HHH WM22 and um, I don't know anymore.

Also SummerSlam 05 is an awesome PPV. Orton/Taker, Jericho/Cena are both great matches. Batista/JBL is better than their GAB dud, Eddie/Rey is solid despite the retarded storyline, Benoit squashing Jordan is classic, Matt/Edge is a great sub-5 min war and Hogan/HBK is much better than it had any right to be.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I remember the bits that they did on Smackdown after Summerslam with Benoit & Jordan, with Benoit doing all of these random tasks that take longer for him to do than beating Orlando Jordan does (such as getting a cup of coffee, which is funny as Benoit was an apparent caffeine junkie).

From what I've seen so far, this show has been great. Benoit/Jordan is a great way to start the show, Rey/Eddie was solid as you said and pretty great considering the circumstances, Matt/Edge is fantastic and the best sub five minute match I've ever seen (current MOTN), Angle/Eugene was bad but it was Eugene getting destroyed, Taker/Orton was awesome but a step below the Mania encounter, Cena/Jericho was awesome as usual, while Batista/JBL is/was one of my favorite go-to FUN matches. Just Hogan/HBK left to go which I haven't seen in years but always enjoyed.

I thought about this the other day and I've wondered this for a while; has Summerslam been a better PPV from year to year since it's inception than Wrestlemania has?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Lesnar destroying HHH's office on Raw was the most awesome comedy skit WWE have produced in a LONG time. I rarely, RARELY find their form of humour entertaining, but this was fucking beautiful.


exactly I rarely find myself so entertained in a segments in general these days like that one


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I agree on the Lesnar/Heyman vs HHH's office segment being awesome. However, it still doesn't make up for the fact that they're using Lesnar's limited appearances on ANOTHER match with trips. I mean come on, two was pushing it but three is just ridiculous.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What did you guys think of No mercy 2002? Personally, I thought it was amazing.

And the Brock & Heyman segment, was GOLD.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Raw now. Ziggler/Del Rio was good, I'm a fan of their chemistry. Love that inverted superplex spot they like to work. They've done it at least 3 times this year and it never gets old to me. Also liked the sequence where Dolph missed a dropkick and immediately followed it up with another one right on the button catching ADR when he thought he avoided danger. Nowhere near their match on Main Event but a solid, athletic TV match nonetheless. Liked Swagger's beatdown afterwards too. Just got more excited for their ladder match.

Can't decide how I feel about "Ryback Rules". It's kind of entertaining in an overly cheesy way.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ everytime he says it I think of Billy Madison "o'doyle rules, o'doyle rules" :lol


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

They can fuck off with their "Ryback Rules". And Ryback in a beanie. They probably thought since Brock made it look badass, that Ryback could too. How wrong they were. 

Popping in the third disc of the Elimination Chamber anthology. STARZ coming for soon the set.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Cyber Sunday 2006:*

Umaga vs Kane - ★¾
- Yawn. When fans could have voted for Chris Benoit to be Umaga's opponent, they chose Kane to job for the 3215080825th time. Match might be interesting on paper, but the end result is the same always with it being very uninteresting and dull. Another win for Umaga, who cares. And to add insult to injury, the idiots even casted more votes for the Sandman than Benoit. Well, even Sandman would've been a better pick now that I think about it. Nothing against Kane, though.

Cryme Tyme vs The Highlanders vs Charlie Haas & Viscera vs Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch - ★¾
- 4 minutes and another filler match. With it being a tornado match, it helps making it a bit more exciting, though. All teams go in and out and the action is always on so this wasn't too horrible.

Jeff Hardy vs Carlito - ★
- I didn't expect a classic but wow, just how boring was this? At 13 minutes, it felt like 25 and with a dead crowd, it didn't help things. Carlito keeps going back to restholds and both these two seem to have a really off day as Hardy also fucks up a couple of times. That Suplex he did near the end looks like it gave Carlito a concussion at least. Boring match.

Rated RKO vs DX - ★★★
- Finally something interesting and worth watching. Gets plenty of time nearly 20 minutes and with Eric Bischoff as the referee. I found this pretty entertaining for what it was. Not great but decent. Also like how the action is different to the generic tag match formula. It's not one DX member being killed by the heels for 15 minutes and then a hot tag. This is a lot more back and forth and with some drama as Bischoff screws DX by allowing Rated RKO to use chairs to defeat DX. One of my favorite parts is Orton rubbing his eyes early on after HBK gets Edge in a roll-up position by taking down his pants and then giving him a chop to the back. Vintage Fat Randy.

Lita vs Mickie James - ¾★
- Both are good wrestlers but this is just dull as fuck. Crowd don't make a single noise throughout this and all you hear is the divas outside the ring yelling. They try to make something out of it but it ain't happening. An extra quarter is added to the rating because of that awesome DDT that finished this. Otherwise, this felt like some backyard wrestling with a group of friends cheering on around the ring.

Spirit Squad vs Ric Flair & Roddy Piper - 0
- Before I go to the match, I have to say Maria was extra hot when wooing before the votes were out for this. Now on to the match, just when I thought the IC title match and the one before this was the most boring it can get, this match outdoes them both. Spirit Squad are shit but having old out of shape legends make a joke out of them is just comical in a bad way. Piper with that huge gut is just an ugly sight. Flair and Piper become tag champions here, mainly to get heat on Rated RKO for when they win the titles.

King Booker vs Big Show vs John Cena - ★★¾
- Now for the main event where Booker is voted to defend his championship. Match is a bit badly structured but entertaining enough while it lasts. Show starts it off with destroying Cena all over the ring and dominating for 5 minutes then Cena dropkicks him into a steel step and he's out of the match for about 10 minutes as Cena and Booker go at it. The action is better than anything they did in 2004 but Cena still doesn't seem to have a proper clue on this wrestling thing yet. His control segment is so sloppy, he just keeps doing a move, picks Booker up, Irish whip then another move and on and on. With that said, he did a pretty cool Russian Leg Sweep. His executions are not bad, it's just the way he works feels kind of uncoordinated. Then Show comes in for the final five minutes and the action starts going back and forth a bit more. Cena looks to be winning with the STFU but K-Fed of all people turns up and hits him with the belt which Booker uses to retain his title. Not a horrible match but the booking is bad and the structure is also messy.

*Overall:* ★½ out of ★★★★★ (What a terrible PPV. When the best you can get are two halfway decent matches with everything else being below average or downright awful, things ain't looking good at all. Worst PPV of 2006 I think. Even the Royal Rumble had a good Rumble match and even most of the 2004 Smackdown PPVs would have the solid main event matches here and there that redeemed them a little. Here, you'll find nothing. Just two decent matches and that's it.)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jericho and Rey Mysterio were both pretty good in the Raw Chamber match in 2009. Need to check some Rey matches once I finish this EC set.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

How does the DX/Rated RKO CS Match compare to their one at NYR?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> How does the DX/Rated RKO CS Match compare to their one at NYR?


The NYR one is quite a bit better. I have that one at ★★★¾. Would have possibly been better without the HHH injury forcing them to improvise on the spot. Also the bloodiest I think I've seen Orton ever be. Not even the Foley match was that bad.

Trips really deserves lots of respect for finishing the match. He also did a lot more this time around than in the 2001 match where he tore his quad. This time he worked another five minutes and even did a Pedigree too which is amazing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

More Raw thoughts...

Shield match was cool. They bumped and sold more for those jobbers than I thought they would and they're starting to legitimize Ambrose's finisher. 

Cesaro won clean on Raw? Good shit. Glad he's done with the yodeling garbage and they're portraying him as a serious wrestler. "I put the W in WWE." (Y) Looking forward to his match with Orton on Main Event, even though that happened already this year and it was average. Would be sweet if Show interferes allowing Cesaro to pick up the win, or at least avoid taking the pinfall.

Heyman/Brock/HHH segment was strong, or as strong as it could be with Brock not being at Raw. Crowd loved DAT GAME PROMO WORK.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm kinda tired and had a weird-ass dream I turned on SmackDown and WWE changed Randy Orton's ring name to "Randall Viper All-Star", but I want to type this now because I watched this yesterday and will forget about it pretty soon. So this could be a shitty read. IDK, read it anyway or something plz.

Brock Lesnar v. Chris Benoit (SmackDown 12/4/03)
Great, great match. I'm only really noticing now that Benoit is one of my favourites to watch get the shit beat out of him. He's kind of always been a favourite of mine, but I guess I never really I loved him working on the bottom more than almost anything. And me does now. He's a guy who's known for not emoting terribly well in matches, which I can understand and agree with, but I find myself agreeing with it less and less on each match. I watch one Benoit match and go 'well Benoit's emoting here better than normal'. I watch a few more matches, say the same thing, and realise I kinda don't agree any more (though I still understand why someone might say that), and Benoit 'normal' emoting is in fact emoting on a good level. That sounded like shit but you get my point and Randall Viper All-Star. His selling, when not trading holds embarrassingly with Kurt Angle, is really super. I'm not sure I've seen a corner-shoulder-block thing (me and my 'things', FFS I can't remember the name) sold better than Benoit sold them here. Most guys might just bend their body in the direction the shoulder is coming towards them, and it looks perfectly good. Benoit's looks like he's actually getting thrust into the corner of the ring over and over, and I can't exactly put my finger on why. Maybe it's because he quickly put his body back into position before the next shoulder-bullet (there, that's my new name for it). I love how each of his hope spots and sub-comebacks has this huge sense of desperation. Each one he has this 'I gotta get out of this' facial and he furiously chops away at his opponent's nipples. He makes the opponent's cut-off move look nice and rough as well. When it actually gets to the point the match is even, Benoit uses this BEAUTIFUL flying shoulder-block. Now that is a move deserving of being called the 'shoulder bullet'; he must have gone 140 km/h. When had he ever done that? Am I forgetting something? I forgot to mention in the Angle/Lesnar iron man that I saw Angle do a leg drop and was like 'whoa' because I don't remember having seen him do it before. Same deal here only Benoit's shoulder tackle was way better than the leg drop (though it's about on par with Angle' moonsault, which he was always misses, but is really great at. It looks like there're launcher pads on the turnbuckles that send him off) Benoit should have used that flying shoulder block more often, is what I'm getting at here, because it was completely awesome. Brock brings in a chair (ref's knocked over etc etc) and Benoit's vocal selling on that was a thing of mastery. Sickening Canadian (oot) yells of pain, it was almost as if he actually was hit by a chair. Legitimacy~~! That finishing submission looked unGODLY painful. Michael Cole goes 'he's bending him like a pretzel'. Not really dude. Looked way worse than that, like Brock was trying to snap a ruler in two or something. I first watched this in 2011 (I think) and actually avoided it for years because, for whatever reason, I thought it went an hour. Why did I think it went an hour? I guess I mis-read a post or something, whatever. The point I'm trying to make is I wish I watched it all those years ago because I prob would have given it ****3/4 back then and said it was the greatest thing since a Scott Steiner promo. I don't think it is a ****3/4 match where my tastes and views are at now, but it is a million stars.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The NYR one is quite a bit better. I have that one at ★★★¾. Would have possibly been better without the HHH injury forcing them to improvise on the spot. Also the bloodiest I think I've seen Orton ever be. Not even the Foley match was that bad.
> 
> Trips really deserves lots of respect for finishing the match. He also did a lot more this time around than in the 2001 match where he tore his quad. This time he worked another five minutes and even did a Pedigree too which is amazing.


In the Power Trip tag Jericho put him in the Walls on the announce table, a move that would directly affect your quad. Dude has a ton of heart.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit... flying shoulder block?

Are you talking about the top rope one? If that's the case, I've seen him do it quite a few times, specially against bigger opponents (Big Show and Henry).

EDIT: Yeah, a Walls of Jericho with a torn quad must hurt a lot.

EDIT 2: Speaking of Angle's ironman match with Lesnar, am I remembering wrong or did he do a missile dropkick in that match?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It wasn't a top rope one, he just ran toward the ropes at full speed and then came flying back at Lesnar. It was awesome.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x61s6_brock-lesnar-vs-chris-benoit-12-03_news#.UYmcRLUziSo

10:22


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ah, you mean the one like Cena's - only much more intense. I didn't recall this one at all since he always did that double forearm takedown when running the ropes. And I know his moveset down to a T.

I need to give that match another watch soon since it's been a while. Remember it being absolutely awesome with a great finish. ★★★★¼.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starting my HHH 2000 project now. First up, HHH/Show for the title on the first Raw of the year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thought the Billy Madison reference about ryback would get little attention, no adam sandler fan ? anyways I like ziggler/del rio chemistry and match they have had. They had a good one on me and smackdown, I feel like they have gone to the well to make with that match and can not really no a regular singles match anymore with them would be special


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RANDALL VIPER ALL STAR.

I swear to god if they made that his real name then I'd automatically become 8 times more interested in him, shortly before he continues his schtick and bores the hell out of me some more. I used to be an Orton believer but...... Yeah I'm not getting into that discussion for the 673552351th time.

I've been out all day so.... HOGAN VS HBK NOW. OVERSELL GALORE.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Elimination Chamber Anthology​*
Survivor Series 2002	*****1/4*

Summerslam 2003	****1/4*

New Year’s Revolution 2005 *****1\2*

New Year’s Revolution 2006 ***3/4*

December to Dismember 2006 **3/4*

No Way Out 2008 (World title contendership) Didn’t watch

No Way Out 2008	(WWE title contendership) ******

No Way Out 2009	(WWE title) ****1/4*

No Way Out 2009	(World title) ****3/4*

Elimination Chamber 2010 (WWE title)*****

Elimination Chamber 2010 (World title) ****​
----------------

Notes:
There wasn't a bad chamber match until NYR until 2006, which wasn't terrible, but a match with Shawn Michaels and Kurt Angle and neither of them are in the last three, well, that makes me hot under the collar. Masters and Carlito were pretty good at the double team stuff, but Angle was still a legit machine in this match and to see him eliminated so early kind of deflated things for me. Shawn Michaels never fails to be great in these matches. 

DO NOT WATCH THE DECEMBER TO DISMEMBER CHAMBER MATCH. That's all, except to say I'd be interested to see how things would have gone if they went with how Heyman wanted the match booked. CM Punk was definitely over, here. 

Fell asleep during the Smackdown match at NWO 2008. Should have just been Batista/Taker in a one on one match. The Raw match on the other hand was pretty fun. 

The 2009 chamber matches were kind of a reverse from the year before. The Smackdown Chamber match started the show, and was decent, but Kozlov was another case of them needing a monster to look strong for a bit, then get eliminated. Edge losing the title in the first 5 minutes ended up being the story of the show, as he came back in the Raw match and ending up winning. The Raw match was definitely better, only because of Mysterio, Edge, and Jericho. Mysterio was especially great here. 

The Raw match in 2010 was meh. Smackdown is where it's at. Though R-Truth was super out of place. Punk with his SES promos was great, and he gets with Rey after he dispatches of TROOF, which can only mean good things will happen. Shit, Punk gets eliminated too early, AND BEFORE MORRISON. DAFUQ. Mysterio, though only being in two EC matches in his career, was terrific in both of them. The finish, with HBK coming from under the chamber allowed Jericho to get the win, thus setting up the Mania encounter between Taker/HBK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME I watch the Survivor Series 2002 Chamber, it goes down a notch for me.

At this point I'd quite easily have four (MAYBE FIVE) Chambers over it. Since the next PPV I'm going to be watching is NEW YEAR'S REVOLUTION (since I skipped it by accident), I get to see the GOAT Chamber with one of my favorite moments in wrestling end the show :mark:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Ah, you mean the one like Cena's - only much more intense. I didn't recall this one at all since he always did that double forearm takedown when running the ropes. And I know his moveset down to a T.


I actually thought while watching the Cena-ish shoulder thing that Benoit should use that instead of the forearms thingys. His forearms thingys are weird, because they look kind of stupid but at the same time look good and rough, like he's just chucking anything in his opponent's face. I kind of like it/kind of don't like it. Either way I wish he used those shoulders more often.



Saint Dick said:


> Starting my HHH 2000 project now. First up, HHH/Show for the title on the first Raw of the year.


I was going to do this a while back, and I actually watched a bunch of HHH 2000. It was more a re-evaluation than a project, though, and I didn't write anything. I do want to look at his TV run that year in further depth since it's his peak year and he isn't really a reliable week-to-week guy.




KingOfKings said:


> RANDALL VIPER ALL STAR.
> 
> I swear to god if they made that his real name then I'd automatically become 8 times more interested in him, shortly before he continues his schtick and bores the hell out of me some more.


They named him that so they would get to trademark his name, b/c they can;t trademark 'Randy Orton'. I really have no idea why I dreamt that.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Well I thought about watching my Clash of the Champions set. Watched the first match, looked at the rest of matches, and realized I'm never going to make it through that. But I did write this:


Clash of the Champions
_NWA World Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Sting*

I loved the start of this match as the opening minutes can just be substituted for the back story. Flair appears to be totally outmatched with Sting as everything he does fails and he constantly is thrown around the ring. He uses some dirty tactics and even those aren't enough to make it looks like he has a chance. So right from the start we hear understand exactly what's going to happen. We wonder how the hell Flair is going to hold onto his title? 

Well that was quickly established the whole dynamic here was really strange. Flair was playing the role of an underdog, but he was also a heel. Now I don't have a problem with this but Sting's offense was just strange. Now I'm not used to wrestling from before I was born but it just comes across as strange, and pretty unexciting, when your babyface is locking the heel into lengthy headlocks and bear hugs. Since they structured the match this way there were periods of down time here. Since Sting was already in control there was nothing to build to but at the same time he wasn't doing anything to get the fans excited. When the pace picked up the fans went crazy and you really felt that this was a big time match. Sting would look unstoppable and Flair would just look terrified. I just wish we didn't have these strange control segments from Sting. Flair eventually took control of the match around the 20 minute mark and then this became more of what I was expecting.

After that change in control I really started to like the match. I love seeing a chicken-shit heel trying to contain an explosive Flair did whatever he could to stop the explosion but it just felt like something you couldn't avoid. But they made it interesting with the false comebacks that would make the crowd go insane briefly until Flair pulled something off to stop the comeback. At around the 30 minute mark Flair takes his offense to the next level when he goes after the knee and puts Sting in the Figure Four. Things just kept escalating until the last 5 minutes brought the match to a fever pitch. The last 5 minutes were insanely exciting as you had the feeling that Sting could take the title at any moment. He put him in the Scorpion Death Lock with 30 seconds left but Flair was able to run out the clock and retain his title.

I really enjoyed this a lot. It's classic Flair where we see him do whatever it takes to hold onto his title. When it was all over you really weren't sure how he was able to hold on to it. The match was 45 minutes and 35 of them were really good. Take away this strange slow paced control segment from Sting and this would have been so much better.I still really liked this one a lot. 
******


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*The Year of THE GAME*

Triple H v Big Show - Raw (1/3/00)
Big Show with long hair! Don't think I ever saw this before but I like basically every HHH/Show match there is and this was no different. Only went about 7 minutes. Show pulled Hunter straight off the apron into the ring before his music had stopped playing and got an early babyface shine. Action spilled to the outside after HHH took his signature turnbuckle bump. That looked cool. It usually does when it's a big guy sending Trips flying. They really went at it on the outside with the highlight being a huge biel throw over the barricade from Show to H. Anyone else think The Game is an underrated bumper? No? Well he takes some pretty heavy back bumps that I dig (see v Taker WM27, v Lesnar WM29, and here off that biel). Hunter got the better of the ringside battle and controlled for a bit before Show no sold some punches - when I say no sold I don't mean in a bad way, I mean in a good 'I'm a monster and I'm pissed so you can't hurt me right now' kind of way - and made his comeback. Crowd ate it up. I mean, a sidewalk slam nearfall got a big reaction. The finish is fine. DX distraction + low blow + Pedigree = new champ. Good short TV match. (Y)

Triple H v Rikishi - Smackdown (1/6/00)
Game's My Time theme is dope. Rikishi won a random draw to get a shot at the title. Stephanie was on commentary and she was great. Loved her reactions to Rikishi's offense. "Oooooo!" after Rikishi hit a leg drop on the outside, which followed a series of similar but lesser reactions from Steph on previous moves, brought a smile to my face. I hope she commentates more matches throughout this project. Anyways, yeah, the actual match. This was a ton of fun. Rikishi had a ridiculous series of nearfalls (I think it's worth noting that Trips times his kickouts perfectly, waiting until the last possible moment to get his shoulder up) so Steph said fuck that and gave Hunter a chair. Game nailed him with it behind the ref's back but Rikishi kicked out and the crowd went NUTS. Game couldn't believe it and got himself disqualified. Seriously fun match.

Next up is a bunch of tags leading up to the Rumble. They look like they could be fun on paper but I think I'm just gonna skip them and move on to HHH/Foley.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 John Cena Matches Ever (15-11)*


15.









WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Batista (Last Man Standing; Extreme Rules 2010) : ******


14.









WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series 2009) : ***** 1/4*


13.










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII) : ***** 1/4*


12.









John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels (RAW 4/23/2007) : ***** 1/4*


11.









World Heavyweight Championship - John Cena Vs Chris Jericho(c) : ***** 1/4*


We're into the PRIMO cream of the crop stuff now starting off with Batista and Cena's finest work together; the Last man Standing match at Extreme Rules. Many may be quick to hate on the finish, but I felt that the finish served it's purpose in keeping Batista strong for the final albeit lackluster blowoff at Over The Limit. These two beat the hell out of each other and Batista gave perhaps the best heel performance of his entire career out there, while Cena showed the world that while he never had a really glamorous 2010 as a whole; he was still one of the best faces in peril in the company. I have it just a hair above the Summerslam match because while Summerslam was a great clash of the titans esque encounter, I felt that the Extreme Rules match brought more to the table in terms of a concrete story being told.

The DX triple threat is known mostly for the beginning of the match, the infamous superkick where HBK SCREWZ HHH at the beginning of the match and DX-PLODEZ. However, what this match should be remembered for is the extremely great pacing these three had, as well as the revolving door of one on one matches being excellent with HBK/Cena & HHH/Cena always delivering (we'll get to those two shortly), and HHH/HBK not being able to go with their melodramatic bullshit due to Cena being in there also. It was the cocktail for an awesome triple threat match as ALL HBK/HHH/??? triple threats are; the spots were there and certainly memorable, it was fun as fuck with a great pace,and it featured some top notch storytelling to boot. It also has the crossface, automatically making it a great match.

Here's another choice that's going to be panned by the thread, but I'll go on record and say that Cena-HHH from Wrestlemania XXII is hands down one of my favorite matches of all time, and that's all because of the slow characterization of Triple H as a full blown heel moving into more of a tweener role by the end of the match and a fan favorite. The way he reacts to the crowd around him and allows them to slowly give him energy and momentum was fucking masterful and I don't think we'll see anything quite like that for a long, long time. However, Cena is no slouch in this one by any means; he's the foundation for what the story is based on, with Triple H being the experienced veteran and Cena being the young Champion determined to not become BURIED like so many men have before.

WWE.COM put John Cena vs Shawn Michaels from Monday Night Raw in April 2007 as the single greatest match in RAW history and also the second greatest match of Cena's career. While I don't agree with both claims at all (obviously, I have this match as Cena's THIRD best RAW match... We'll get to the other two shortly), there's no doubt that this told alot of casual fans what many people in 2007 already knew; John Cena in the year 2007 was UNTOUCHABLE in the WWE. Hell, I consider this to be the John Cena show, as I feel that he contributed a substantial amount to this one that actually override Shawn's involvement by quite a wide margin. The pacing for this match was masterful, the action that took place from bell to bell was exciting and suspenseful, can you really ask for more out of a main event of Monday Night Raw? Well..... MAYBE 8*D

Here's another choice that people may hate on; THE JERICHO MATCH HIGHER THAN THE HBK MATCH OMG STOP DA PRESSERZ. The dissecting performance of Jericho on Cena's neck as well as Cena's epic selling of the neck injury was a work of art, and the pace that they kept this at was wonderful as well; Jericho keeps it methodical and beats Cena down, Cena gets small bursts of quick offense, repeat. The fact that we see Cena go from being unsure about his ability to come back from the injury in comparison to the end of the match where he tries the move that put him out in the first place was wonderful storytelling, as well as Jericho's excellent psychology in following up on the neck injury. It doesn't make the top 10 due to the flip of a coin essentially (really, there's a match that I have so even to this one that I basically had to flip a coin), but this is one of those matches that everybody NEEDS to see as it's one of the best duo performances I've ever seen in terms of pure storytelling.

-Evan.

​


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Surprised you have Cena/HHH WM22 over their Night of Champions match. Love both of them but NoC gets the nod.

Big fan of the Jericho match but wouldn't have it that high.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Hunter/Cena Mania is much better than NoC for me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Didn't Cena get Jericho up for the FU without selling the neck injury at all though in the SS 08 match? Jericho was, of course, great in that. Can't deny the match was good, but I still have issues with that booking. Cena getting awarded a title match before he even returned from injury. 

I'm enjoying the lists and write-ups. Oh and Jericho locks in the Liontamer and Michael Cole calls it a "modified version of the walls." What a cunt.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena/Jericho is a low 3-ish match for me. The storytelling as brilliant but it dragged on too long and didn't really spark great interest. Still their best match together tho.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Hunter/Cena Mania is much better than NoC for me.


Fair enough. The atmosphere in the Mania match made it special. Strong storytelling too. For me the NoC match is a textbook example of two top stars working the WWE main event style, like Taker/Batista and Cena/Punk.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah. NoC may have better _wrestling_ technically, with the limb work and everything, but Mania didn't have to make use of any of that with the way the crowd was and how the story played out. Definition of a big fight imo, and a bigger moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Jericho from Survivor Series '08.

One of my favorites. (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/HHH NOC 08>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WM22

But yeah, disagree with a few of the high ratings. Mostly with Cena/HHH WM22 being so high, but also Cena/Jericho being that high is pretty crazy. Don't remember it being anywhere near that, but in all fairness I do need to re-watch that match. Cena/Batista ER is also an interesting choice. Pretty high from what I remember as well, and definitely wouldn't put it above their SS match.

The SVS WWE Title match is also a little higher than I'd have it, but I wouldn't majorly disagree on it. And Cena/HBK Raw is spot on.

Edit: BTW KOK, I remember I posted my Top 10 Cena matches and you mentioned how two of them weren't even in your top 100 Cena matches. Just wondering what that was if you can say now (even though you have ten matches left to go). Here's the top 10 Cena matches I have (it might've changed since then though):

(****1/2)
1) vs. Umaga RR 07
(****1/4)
2) vs. Punk MITB 11
3) vs. HBK Raw 2007
4) vs. Lesnar ER 12
5) vs. Edge vs. Orton vs. HBK BL 07
(****)
6) vs. Edge BL 09
7) NWO 09 World Title EC
8) vs. Taker SD 04
9) vs. Edge Unforgiven 2006
10) vs. JBL JD 05


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cena/Jericho was laid out really well but was kind of uninteresting. It's a good example to me that working over a body part doesn't automatically make something great - there's fun ways to work one and boring ways to work one. Cena/Jericho wasn't boring AT ALL, just not THAT good or interesting. 

I do remember seeing Jericho stretch the neck and you could see Cena's surgical scar and it looked weird and I was like 'shiiiiiiit ow'.


The SVS three-way was more fun than expected but I didn't really, really like. Superkick at the start was cool and Cena looked really great for a lot of it but other than that nothing stood out a bunch. I don't like three-ways in general, though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching the Jericho/HBK trilogy from 2008. Hadn't ever seen the GAB match, and the ladder match and Unsanctioned match I hadn't seen in a while. Based on the video packages alone, this feud was freaking incredible. 

Oh, and I need to also watch the Trips/Cena matches from Mania and Night of Champions. Not sure I've even the NOC match, but it's been a few years on the Mania match. Anything with GAME, I'm "game" for.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Why no JD08?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haven't seen Cena vs Trips NOC '08 in quite a while. Even if it goes down in quality for me I'll still have to prefer it to WM 22. Latter being one I've never really enjoyed.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*The Year of THE GAME* (part 2 of idk how many)

part 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/17992546-post11714.html

Triple H v Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble (1/23/00)
Don't need to say too much about this one; I'm sure everything I could say has been said already. What I will say is that it held up beautifully. Hadn't seen it in a few years but it definitely stands the test of time. Foley is absolutely brilliant in it. One part that I loved that I'm not sure I always appreciated was HHH with chair in hand daring Foley to get into the ring and Mick charges in and gets obliterated by a chair shot because he's a crazy motherfucker. Hunter takes his time undoing a turnbuckle and Foley is up already because this crazy motherfucker can take a beating as well as any crazy motherfucker you've ever seen. He's a crazy motherfucker. Also loved Trips going after Foley's leg after those insane ring step bumps. Seemed like something he had to do to gain an advantage because Foley was at home in the street fight environment and getting the better of things. Lots of brutal, awesome looking stuff to enjoy such as barbed wired, killer piledriver on the table, and of course PEDIGREE ON THUMBTACKS! :mark: Amazing performance from Foley who is clearly the better guy here but it's not like Triple H was just along for the ride. He certainly held up his end of the bargain. I wrote more than I planned to. Top 10 match in company history. (Y)

Triple H & Big Show v The Rock & Rikishi - Raw (1/24/00)
Not much to this at all. It's really short, like less than 5 minutes, but I had so much fun with the HHH/Rikishi match I watched earlier that I had to watch it. Rikishi is not a guy I've watched a lot of or wanted to watch a lot of because why would I want to watch a fat Samoan grapple with his butt cheeks on display? I don't really but I'm starting to think I should give him more of a chance. Forgot to mention he did a super flip bump in the 1/6 match. Enjoyed him more than anybody else here. This was too short to be anything worthwhile and it ended in a DQ to set up a brawl involving Foley but these two teams have a longer match on Smackdown in March so I'm looking forward to that one.

Triple H v Chris Benoit - Smackdown (2/3/00)
Benoit's WWF debut and obviously it's good. HHH had a cool looking bump/sell off a baseball slide into the barricade and right after Benoit was like nah bro, this is how you do it, and absolutely FLEW head first into the steel steps. Looking back on the guy's career it's not hard to tell why Benoit lost his marbles. I don't know if that's a fucked up or insensitive thing to say or whatever but seriously, he dove into those steps like Michael Phelps dives into a swimming pool. Crazy. Anyway, back to business. They did a nice job putting over the Crossface here. Teased it early on and then Trips tapped to it towards the end but the ref was out at the time. The ref bump was kinda shitty but I've seen worse. Game wins after a low blow and Pedigree. Solid match.

So yeah, so far I'm really enjoying HHH's TV work in 2000. Everything has been good/fun and the Foley street fight is an all-time classic. :HHH


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Just stumbled across this while looking for random Rey matches on youtube. Pretty sweet match that I can't remember seeing before. Based around working towards Rey's comeback whilst he gets his ribs worked over. Obviously Rey is best working from behind, and Kidd's offence is crisp as always. Not a bad way to kill 10 minutes or so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of my favorites from 2010 Superstars catalog. Glad they gave me one of my dream matches. There was a two minute match between them on Smackdown in 2009. Nothing but a tease. WWE made amends.

Cactus Jack vs Triple H street fight = legendary. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Cactus Jack vs Triple H street fight = legendary. :mark:


So good. Best match of both men's career imo. Looking forward to seeing what I make of their HIAC after all these years. Your thoughts on that one?

Oh and this week's Smackdown must be watched because of:



Spoiler: SD



Daniel Bryan v Dean Ambrose :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

oh man that sounds glorious saint dick


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> So good. Best match of both men's career imo. Looking forward to seeing what I make of their HIAC after all these years. Your thoughts on that one?
> 
> Oh and this week's Smackdown must be watched because of:
> 
> ...


I like it. I've never quite LOVED it, but I've always liked it & is really, really good. Bordering on great. It never reached the level the street fight hit. Don't know if it tried to, but with the order it went in, you know I kind of can't help but compare the two whenever I watch. What better way for Foley to go out on though - falling through a cell. It literally took the most bonkers thing to incapacitate the man to lose. First it was Pedigree on the thumbtacks. Second time it was a crash landing following by one more pedigree to seal the deal. Foley is a mad man. <3

Excitement reaching fever pitch at the match for Smackdown. Was hoping it would be a certain someone else as the heel, but my oh my, by no means is it a disappointment.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

this looks like a great pack:

Cruiserweights 1 - 120 MIN 
JULY 1998 - DECEMBER 1998 

Chris Jericho vs Ultimo Dragon 
Dean Malenko vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Chris Jericho vs Dean Malenko 
Alex Wright & Disco Inferno vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko 
Eddie Guererro vs Perry Saturn 
Juventud Guerrera vs Billy Kidman 
Eddie Guererro vs Perry Saturn 
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Psycosis 
Billy Kidman vs Chris Jericho 
Kaz Hoyashi vs Juventud Guererra 
Eddie Guererro vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Juventud Guererra vs Kidman 
Eddie Guererro vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Chris Benoit vs Bret Hart 


Cruiserweights 2 - 120 MIN 
JULY 1998 - DECEMBER 1998 

Rey Mysterio Jr vs Kidman 
Dean Malenko vs Brett Hart (groin injury Bret) 
Konnan vs Chris Jericho 
Eddie Guererro vs Kidman 
Bret Hart vs Diamond Dallas Paige (no DQ match) 
Silver King vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Juventud Guererra 
Kidman vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Chris Jericho vs Perry Saturn 
Eddie Guererro vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 


Cruiserweights 3 - 120 MIN 
JANUARY 1999 - MARCH 1999 

Perry Saturn vs Chris Jericho 
Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr vs Psycosis & Juventud 
Psycosis vs Kidman 
Chris Jericho vs Booker T 
Psycosis vs Juventud Guererra 
La Parka vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Blitzkrieg vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Blitzkrieg & Psycosis & Juventud vs Hector Garza & Super Calo & El Dandy 
Chris Jericho vs Juventud Guererra 
Rey Mysterio Jr & Konnan vs Silver King & Hector Garza 
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Horace Hogan & Brian Adams 
Chris Jericho vs Hugh Morrus 
NWO Horsemen parody 


Cruiserweights 4 - 120 MIN 
JANUARY 1999 - MARCH 1999 

Kevin Nash vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Hector Garza vs Psychosis 
Blitzkrieg vs Juventud Guererra 
Psychosis vs Kidman 
Backstage brawl: Bam Bam Bigelow, Hak (Sandman) & Raven 
Chavo Guererro vs Kidman 
HAK (Sandman) vs Bam Bam Bigelow 
Raven vs HAK (Sandman) 
Kidman vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Juventud Guererra 
Psychosis & Silver King & el Dandy & La Cacuracha vs La Parka & Super Calo & Lizmark Jr & Damian 
El Vampiro vs Juventud Guererra 
Blitzkrieg vs Kidman 


Cruiserweights 5 - 120 MIN 
MARCH 1999 - JULY 1999 

Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Raven & Saturn vs Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Juventud Guererra vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Juventud guererra vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Psychosis vs Blitzkrieg vs Juventud Guererra vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko & Kidman vs Raven & Saturn & Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Psychosis 
Juventud Guererra vs Kidman 
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Raven & Saturn 
DDP & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Saturn & Kanyon 


Cruiserweights 6 - 120 MIN 
MARCH 1999 - JULY 1999 

Kevin Nash dumps garbage on Randy Savage 
HAK (The Sandman) vs Prince Iaukea 
DDP & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Chris Benoit & Rick Flair 
La Parka & Silver King vs Ciclope & Damian (Lucha hardcore match) 
Saturn vs Kanyon -> Saturn & Benot vs Kanyon & DDP 
Konnan & Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Psychosis & La Parka 
Psychosis vs Kidman 
Juventud Guererra vs Eddie Guererro 
Psychosis vs Eddie Guerrerro 
Triad vs Buff & Malenko 
Juventud Guererra vs Chavo Guererro Jr. 
Triad vs Benoit & Saturn & Malenko


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

:mark: at that Smackdown match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell yes it does.

Blitzkrieg & Psycosis & Juventud vs Hector Garza & Super Calo & El Dandy 

OMGGGGGGG


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

you can get it here:

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=102426

im thinking about getting a wwf 2000 ppv pack too


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I like it. I've never quite LOVED it, but I've always liked it & is really, really good. Bordering on great. It never reached the level the street fight hit. Don't know if it tried to, but with the order it went in, you know I kind of can't help but compare the two whenever I watch. What better way for Foley to go out on though - falling through a cell. It literally took the most bonkers thing to incapacitate the man to lose. First it was Pedigree on the thumbtacks. Second time it was a crash landing following by one more pedigree to seal the deal. Foley is a mad man. <3
> 
> Excitement reaching fever pitch at the match for Smackdown. Was hoping it would be a certain someone else as the heel, but my oh my, by no means is it a disappointment.


I know I think it's great, or thought it was because I haven't seen it in years, but not on the level of the street fight. It's possible that I've only ever watched it once. Don't really remember anything other than the finish so I'm pumped for it after the reliving the greatness of Royal Rumble 2000. Up next is the highly praised 10 man tag which I don't think I've ever seen. 

I'm sure we're gonna get that match you're hoping for in the coming weeks/months. Would love it to be on PPV but I'll be more than satisfied with a 10 minute TV match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I may have to. I'm about as tacked to gills with downloads that I got to watch though. 

just noticed Bret Hart vs Chris Benoit & Benoit/Malenko vs Bryan Adams/Horace Hogan made the list for CRUISERWEIGHT matches. wtf? lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao

dont know why. 

found this pack aswell. whats everyones thoughts on dem ratings?

50: The Rock n Sock Connection vs Evolution (*** ½) 
Handicap 2 on 3 Tag Match 
XX 

49: Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio (*** ¾) 
Singles Match 
XXI 

48: Kane vs Mark Henry vs CM Punk vs MVP vs Finlay vs Shelton Benjamin vsChristian vs Kofi Kingston (*** ¾) 
Money In The Bank Ladder Match 
XXV 

47: Chris Jericho vs Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (*** ¾) 
European – Intercontinental Championship Triple Threat 2 Out of 3 Falls Match 
XVI 

46: Steve Austin vs Shawn Michaels (*** ¾) 
WWF Championship Match 
XIV 

45: Ric Flair vs Undertaker (*** ¾) 
No Disualification Match 
XVIII 

44: Edge vs Mr Kennedy vs Finlay vs Randy Orton vs Booker T vs Matt Hardy vs CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy (*** ¾) 
Money In The Bank Ladder Match 
XXIII 

43: Randy Orton vs CM Punk (*** ¾) 
Singles Match 
XXVII 

42: Shawn Michaels vs Vince McMahon (*** ¾) 
No Holds Barred Match 
XXII 

41: Batista vs John Cena (*** ¾) 
WWE Championship Match 
XXVI 

40: Dudley Boyz vs Hardy Boyz vs Edge & Christian (****) 
WWF Tag Team Championship Triangle Ladder Match 
XVI 

39: Triple H vs Undertaker (****) 
Singles Match 
XVII 

38: John Cena vs Triple H (****) 
WWE Championship Match 
XXII 

37: Diesel vs Shawn Michaels (****) 
WWF Championship Match 
XI 

36: CM Punk vs Chris Jericho (****) 
WWE Championship Match 
XXVIII 

35: Hulk Hogan vs Andre The Giant (****) 
WWF Championship Match 
III 

34: John Morrison vs Shelton Benjamin vs MVP vs CM Punk vs Chris Jericho vs Mr Kennedy vs Carlito (****) 
Money In The Bank Ladder Match 
XXIV 

33: Randy Savage vs Hulk Hogan (****) 
WWF Championship Match 
V 

32: Batista vs Undertaker (****) 
World Heavyweight Championship Match 
XXIII 

31: Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (****) 
Singles Match 
XVII 

30: Undertaker vs Randy Orton (****) 
Singles Match 
XXI 

29: Steve Austin vs The Rock (****) 
WWF Championship Match 
XV 

28: Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho vs Christian vs Edge vs Kane vs Shelton Benjamin (**** ¼) 
Money In The Bank Ladder Match 
XXI 

27: The Rock vs John Cena (**** ¼) 
Singles Match 
XXVIII 

26: John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (**** ¼) 
WWE Championship Match 
XXIII 

25: Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero (**** ¼) 
WWE Championship Match 
XXI 

24: Steve Austin vs The Rock (**** ¼) 
Singles Match 
XIX 

23: Edge vs Undertaker (**** ¼) 
World Heavyweight Championship Match 
XXIV 

22: Mick Foley vs Edge (**** ¼) 
Hardcore Match 
XXII 

21: Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (**** ¼) 
WWE Championship Match 
XIX 

20: Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper (**** ¼) 
Intercontinental Championship 
VIII 

19: Triple H vs Undertaker (**** ½) 
Hell In a Cell Match 
XXVIII 

18: Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (**** ½) 
Singles Match 
XIX 

17: Randy Savage vs Ric Flair (**** ½) 
WWF Championship Match 
VIII 

16: Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior (**** ½) 
WWF Championship Match 
VI 

15: Triple H vs Undertaker (**** ½) 
No Holds Barred Match 
XXVII 

14: Hulk Hogan vs The Rock (**** ½) 
Singles Match 
XVIII 

13: Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (**** ½) 
Career Match’ 
XXIV 

12: Steve Austin vs The Rock (**** ½) 
WWF Championship Match 
XVII 

11: Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior (**** ¾) 
Retirement Match 
VII 

10: Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (**** ¾) 
Career Match 
XXVI 

09: Edge & Christian vs Dudley Boyz vs Hardy Boyz (**** ¾) 
WWF Tag Team Championship TLC Match 
XVII 

08: Owen Hart vs Bret Hart (**** ¾) 
Singles Match 
X 

07: Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart (**** ¾) 
WWF Championship 60 Min Iron Man Match 
XII 

06: Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H (*****) 
World Heavyweight Championship Triple Threat Match 
XX 

05: Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels (*****) 
Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match 
X 

04: Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (*****) 
Intercontinental Championship Match 
III 

03: Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle (*****) 
Singles Match 
XXI 

02: Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (*****) 
Singles Match 
XXV 

01: Steve Austin vs Bret Hart (*****) 
Submission Match 
XIII


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I know I think it's great, or thought it was because I haven't seen it in years, but not on the level of the street fight. It's possible that I've only ever watched it once. Don't really remember anything other than the finish so I'm pumped for it after the reliving the greatness of Royal Rumble 2000. Up next is the highly praised 10 man tag which I don't think I've ever seen.
> 
> I'm sure we're gonna get that match you're hoping for in the coming weeks/months. Would love it to be on PPV but I'll be more than satisfied with a 10 minute TV match.


Have to say I'm nearly inspired to watch HIAC again myself. If I do, I'll def have to pop in the Street Fight first. I can always watch it. Without a doubt one of my favorite WWF/WWE matches.

Fingers crossed. We're at that point to where I do think it does have a good chance of occurring. Callbacks from previous matches would be :mark:



King Kenny said:


> 47: Chris Jericho vs Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (*** ¾)
> European – Intercontinental Championship Triple Threat 2 Out of 3 Falls Match
> XVI
> 
> ...


:lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DEM RATINGS


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I was cool with the majority of those ratings. Then I saw Cena/Rock at ****1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

wait Angle vs Michaels got *****?

k, that's the best one. 8*D


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I should probably re-watch the Angle/Michaels matches at some point. Don't know what I think about them.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I liked them both.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

was ECW good in 2006? really cant remember


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I should probably re-watch the Angle/Michaels matches at some point. Don't know what I think about them.


Vengeance I always liked. Dumb ending, but good match.

Hate the WM match.



King Kenny said:


> was ECW good in 2006? really cant remember


umm....fun. The extreme rules matches were usually a treat. BIG SHOW was the man. Punker debuts. Test was rather bossy iirc. That's about it. I'll say fun probably encompasses it the best.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Anyone witnessed the Flyin' Brian vs Naitch Ric Flair from Worldwide in Feb 1990? Great stuff, nothing must see but if you stmble upon it, watch it. 

Was hoping to grab some opinions on WrestleWar 90, especially the main event, Luger vs Flair for the title. Luger in the '90s always makes me very, oh so very cautious.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember that match being fairly excellent. Like on par with their great Starrcade '88 match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

What should I download?

is this pack worth it?

1. NWA-TNA PPV #12 - Ace Steel & CM Punk vs. Rave & Wylde vs. Hot Shots (18.09.2002) 
2. NWA-TNA PPV #45 - Paul London vs. C.M. Punk vs. Jason Cross vs. Kid Romeo (4-Way Elimination Match) (21.05.2003) 
3. NWA-TNA PPV #46 - A.J. Styles & D-Lo Brown vs. C.M. Punk & Jason Cross (28.05.2003) 
4. NWA-TNA PPV #47 - C.M. Punk, Matt Stryker & Frankie Kazarian vs. Kid Romeo, Johnny Swinger & Damien (04.06.2003) 
5. NWA-TNA PPV #51 - Shane Douglas vs. CM Punk (CLOCKWORK ORANGE HOUSE OF FUN MATCH) (02.07.2003) 
6. NWA-TNA PPV #54 - Shane Douglas, Brian Lee & Slash vs. Raven, C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero (23.07.2003) 
7. NWA-TNA PPV #58 - Sinn & Slash vs. C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero (20.08.2003) 
8. NWA-TNA PPV #63 - The Gathering (Raven, CM Punk & Julio Dinero) vs. Shane Douglas & The Disciples of the New Church (DOG COLLAR CHAIN MATCH) (24.09.2003) 
9. NWA-TNA PPV #66 - Vampiro & Slash vs. C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero (15.10.2003) 
10. NWA-TNA PPV #69 - The Gathering (Julio Dinero & CM Punk) vs. Kid Kash & Lazz (05.11.2003) 
11. NWA-TNA PPV #71 - Raven, Sandman & Erik Watts vs. Kevin Northcutt, Ryan Wilson & Joe E. Legend (Clockwork Orange House Of Fun match) (19.11.2003) 
12. NWA-TNA PPV #73 - Raven, C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero vs. Abyss, Kevin Northcutt & Joe E. Legend (03.12.2003) 
13. NWA-TNA PPV #74 - Kevin Northcutt & Joe E. Legend vs. C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero (10.12.2003) 
14. NWA-TNA PPV #75 - Raven, C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero vs. Abyss, Kevin Northcutt & Joe E. Legend (Steel Cage match) 
(17.12.2003) 
15. NWA-TNA PPV #76 - C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero vs. Raven & Sandman (07.01.2004) 
16. NWA-TNA PPV #77 - C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero vs. Sandman (Singapore Canes on a Pole Match) (14.01.2004) 
17. NWA-TNA PPV #78 - Julio Dinero & C.M. Punk vs. Sandman & Balls Mahoney (21.01.2004) 
18. NWA-TNA PPV #79 - C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero vs. Sandman & Mikey Whipwreck (28.01.2004) 
19. NWA-TNA PPV #80 - C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero vs. Sandman & Terry Funk (04.02.2004) 
20. NWA-TNA PPV #82 - Terry Funk & Raven vs. Julio Dinero & C.M. Punk (18.02.2004) 
21. NWA-TNA PPV #83 - C.M. Punk & Julio Dinero vs. Raven & Sabu (25.02.2004)


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> I remember that match being fairly excellent. Like on par with their great Starrcade '88 match.


Haven't watched their Starrcade encounter. Actually I feel bad skipping ahead to 1990, because now I've just realised I missed the Flair against Funk/Steamboat feuds. Oh God. Granted I've seen them, but skipping them. Oh Godddd.

Todays agenda, both Luger matches and both Funk matches. Not sure my sleep ridden state could sit through 120+ minutes of Flair/Steamboat, regardless of pristine quality.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Luger matches are great IIRC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> What should I download?
> 
> is this pack worth it?
> 
> ...


If you want to see more of Punker - you bet. I don't recall any being classics, but the weekly TNA PPVs were usually a hot bed for a slew of fun matches._ (well and some massive fuckery)_ Fun + Punk should = win. Lots of those are going to be wild. As you can already tell by who he is up against.



Desecrated said:


> Haven't watched their Starrcade encounter. Actually I feel bad skipping ahead to 1990, because now I've just realised I missed the Flair against Funk/Steamboat feuds. Oh God. Granted I've seen them, but skipping them. Oh Godddd.
> 
> Todays agenda, both Luger matches and both Funk matches. Not sure my sleep ridden state could sit through 120+ minutes of Flair/Steamboat, regardless of pristine quality.


You know once you're in the thick of it you can't fall asleep even if someone paid you. Flair vs Steamboat 2/3 falls. It's > sleep. 

Flair vs Luger Starrcade match is GREAT. I was blown away by it once I purchased the Starrcade DVD set years ago.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

which starrcade is that from?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

^ 88.



Obfuscation said:


> You know once you're in the thick of it you can't fall asleep even if someone paid you. Flair vs Steamboat 2/3 falls. It's > sleep.
> 
> Flair vs Luger Starrcade match is GREAT. I was blown away by it once I purchased the Starrcade DVD set years ago.


Very good to know then . Their 2/3 falls is a Clash encounter right?

Pumped in Starrcade now, Midnight Express new vs old bout and Luger/Flair. Body is ready.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

anyone have a link to it? or that ppv?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Very good to know then . Their 2/3 falls is a Clash encounter right?
> 
> Pumped in Starrcade now, Midnight Express new vs old bout and Luger/Flair. Body is ready.


Yep. Clash bred the 2/3 falls.

don't sleep on Windham vs Bigelow. Awesome match. :mark:



King Kenny said:


> anyone have a link to it? or that ppv?


http://www.wwe.com/videos/ric-flair-vs-lex-luger-starrcade-1988-full-length-match-26110543


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

not available for me CODY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Awful WWE.






Skip to 59 minutes in and you'll be good. Quality isn't nearly as strong as the WWE link. Watchable nonetheless.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just watched Summerslam 1998 and I wrote a review just for you guys. Sorry it's a bit long at just under 2000 words

*WWF Summerslam 1998 review*​
*Match 1: D-Lo Brown vs. Val Venis ****
This is for the WWF European championship. Some decent offense from both guys in the first few minutes though the crowd is really quiet for some reason. This is Madison Square Garden by the way. It’s a little slow so far, D-Lo puts a Texas Cloverleaf on Val, but for some reason he lets go of it as Venis starts making his way to the ropes. No idea why he just let go. The pace starts to pick up and the crowd starts getting into it when Val goes up top and D-Lo counters into a sick sit-out powerbomb, followed shortly by a great DDT. Soon after some offense from Val, D-Lo goes to give him a running powerbomb but somebody loses their balance it seems and Val gets dropped on his goddamn neck. Weird how in 1998 something like that didn’t get much of a reaction. Anyway, Val takes D-Lo’s chest protector and goes up top, but the ref doesn’t want him to and grabs his leg and accidently crotches Venis on the top rope. Venis then shoves the ref and he calls for a DQ. Pretty flat finish to what was otherwise a good opener. I gave it 3/5 anyway, it was still a pretty enjoyable 15 minute match despite that finish.

Apparently Stone Cold destroyed a hearse and Mankind is there looking at it. It happened on Sunday Night Heat, which I haven’t been watching . I’ve strongly considered starting to watch that, I think I will.

*Match 2: The Oddities vs. Kai En Tai No stars*
The fuckin’ Insane Clown Posse come out to perform The Oddities theme live. I’ll have to admit the song is kinda catchy but god damn I hate them. This match is just bad and not even in a good way for the most part. It goes for way too long at 10 minutes. The first half of the match is just them screwing around and the crowd doesn’t give a shit and neither do I. The second half is Kai En Tai using some decent offense to try and take down the big guys. They are a good team but that cannot save this crap. I don’t even remember what the finish was and I just watched it, The Oddities won, great...

*Match 3: X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett ****
This is a Hair vs Hair match. Howard Finkel is with X-Pac. I think he had his head shaved by Jarrett on Heat. Double J doesn’t have Tennessee Lee with him anymore, I think something happened to him a few weeks ago on Heat as well. Okay I should watch that show to keep up with all these little details. Anyway this is a pretty solid match. There’s a spot early on with both men on the outside where Jarrett lifts X-Pac in an atomic drop position but crotches him on the ring post instead, looked brutal. Some good back and forth and submission stuff later on. Southern Justice come out after, one distracts the ref while the other goes to hit X-Pac with a guitar which he dodges, takes and then hits Jarrett in the face with and pins him for the win. Jarrett gets his hair cut while he yells at the ref for not seeing the guitar shot. It seems to be taking too long for them to cut it so they let him go half finished. 

The Rock is being interviewed by Cole. The Rock hit Triple H in the back of the knee with the IC title belt during Heat and now The Rock will prove that he is the best damn Intercontinental Championship there ever was in the ladder match later tonight.

*Match 4: Marc Mero & Jacqueline vs. Sable & Edge ***
Mixed tag team match. Sable’s partner is a mystery. She announces it will be Edge, his music plays and he walks out through the crowd. This is Edge’s first match on PPV. Mero and Edge start off. Shortly after Sable and Jacqueline go at it and Jacky accidentally knocks Mero off the apron. Edge takes out Mero with a great dive over the top rope, then Jacky leaps on his back but Edge flips her around and spanks her... Anyway, in the ring Mero accidentally knocks Jacky off the apron, gets crotched on the top rope and Sable gives him a hurricanrana from the top which looked great. Unique finish as Edge picks up Sable and drops her on Mero and she pins him for the win, which I thought was illegal but okay. This was a fun match. 

Mankind is being interviewed by Cole. Kane apparently isn’t going to show up and Mankind doesn’t know what to do. He might forfeit and then he starts rambling about getting his ass beat. Vince shows up and convinces him that this is his night at MSG, it’s his match, no holds barred and starts handing him weapons. Mankind is convinced and has 13 words for the Outlaws: “how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood”. Vince looks a little confused. Good segment.

*Match 5: Ken Shamrock vs. Owen Hart ***1/2*
This is a Lion’s Den match. This is taking place in a MMA style circle cage in a theatre at MSG which is kinda strange. This match is a really fast paced and hard hitting fight, much like their Dungeon match at Fully Loaded the previous month. They make some very inventive use of the cage to counter submissions. There’s a lot going on here. To end the match, Shamrock locks in the ankle lock and Owen taps. Fun match to watch and better than their dungeon match. It was also longer and the finish didn’t suck. I recommend this match just for how unique it is. I’d recommend the Dungeon match from Fully Loaded as well for the same reason.

*Match 6: Mankind vs. The New Age Outlaws ***
Falls count anywhere for the Tag Team championship. The Outlaws come out with a dumpster, uh oh. Immediately Gunn gets nailed with a pan. They then duel with chairs and the Outlaws take control. Things go a little more back and forth as the beat each other with weapons. Mankind takes a Russian leg sweep to the side of the dumpster that turns my stomach. The way the back of his head got snapped back was sickening. I used to love the hardcore stuff but some of it I just can’t handle anymore. I guess we just know too much about what happens to these guys. Mankind then gets powerbombed through two chairs and kicks out. The Outlaws music plays for a second. They give him a spike piledriver on the belt and win the titles. After the match the Outlaws dump Mankind in the dumpster and close the lid. Suddenly Kane pops up out of it and has a sledgehammer and brings it down on Mankind at the bottom of the dumpster (you don’t see it). It was a decent match but it didn’t go for very long. Only felt like 5 minutes. I know this is part of a storyline but I feel like they could have had a proper tag team match and defended the titles. Could’ve made for a much better match, but then that might not have fit into the story they are telling with Kane abandoning Mankind to be with his brother. So while it’s disappointing I can live with it.

*Match 7: The Rock vs. Triple H ****1/2*
Ladder match for the Intercontinental championship. The IC title feels pretty important at this time. The pre match video helped with that and also reminded me that this has actually been a great feud. I hadn’t fully realised that until now. It’s also interesting to remember that this was a very young match type at this point in time. All of that makes this match feel like a pretty big deal for these two guys still coming up in their careers who have been proving themselves worthy of the main event. I suspect this is where that road to the main event begins. For its time this is quite an innovative ladder match. There are some good spots with the ladder. While many of these have become standard fare for ladder matches today, it all still holds up extremely well. But that really doesn’t matter as this is still an incredibly well worked match with some great psychology. The Rock worked Hunter’s leg for a bit which he sold very well for the whole match. This is pretty physical, they are giving it their all and the crowd loves it. Rocky hits a People’s elbow and he gets the most positive reaction he has ever gotten at this point for it. Some of the crowd even starts chanting his name. This match seems to be really making him in the eyes of many fans. Triple H gets blinded with powder by Mark Henry and Chyna gives The Rock a low blow. Finally Triple H takes that Intercontinental title and the crowd is on their feet. Great ending to an excellent match. In terms of violence and ladder usage it might be just a little tame compared to ladder matches that came later, but again it holds up really damn well and the match itself is fantastic so that doesn’t matter. 

*Match 7: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Undertaker ***1/2*
For the WWF World championship. These two have been feuding for a few months and it has been a great main event rivalry and it all comes to a head right here. Some basic mat wrestling for a while to start the match off and it turns into a bit of a brawl. Kane shows up but Taker tells him to leave and then Taker gives Austin a chokeslam from the apron into the ring. That was pretty sweet. They brawl out into the crowd briefly and come back. They brawl outside a bit more and then Taker sets up Austin on the announce table. He then goes to the top rope and leg drops Austin through the table. Crazy spot, especially when it comes from The Undertaker. After some back and forth teasing finishers, Taker goes up top to go old school on Austin, but Austin low blows him and then gives him a stunner to retain the WWF title. After the match Taker has the title and hands it to Austin in a show of respect. Kane comes back out and he and Taker watch from the aisle as Stone Cold celebrates. This was a very entertaining main event, a great battle to end the show. Not much else I can say. There was a great story going with this feud, with Taker refusing McMahon’s help or Kane’s help, which may have backfired on him but it’s all about respect with the Undertaker. Good stuff.

A Home Video exclusive shows an interview with Undertaker where he says that his hat goes off to Austin for winning this battle but the war isn’t over yet. There’s an interview with Austin as well who says that he is a little disappointed in himself for not being fully focused on the match and also implies that this rivalry isn’t done yet. I would love to see more from them so that’s cool with me.

So overall this was a very good PPV. A few matches were really worth watching in Shamrock/Owen, the main event, and of course the ladder match and there was really only one bad match, everything else was good or at least entertaining. 1998 has been a pretty poor year for WWF PPVs, but Summerslam is easily the best show of the year so far, hopefully this trend will continue. *7.5/10*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) @ digging the Lion's Den match. My personal MOTN. Think it's rather spectacular.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

This feels weird. Eyes were flickering while watching the first two matches of Starrcade '88, paused it, and now I am back alive. Anyway, the first match did not help me (Dr Death/Sullivan up against the Fantastics). 20 minutes of nothingness. **** for the civil war in the dark side. Start was so much perfection. Think I'll stick to Windham/Bigelow and Flair/Luger, and close the PPV out. Can't see myself tempted with Steiner/Rotunda or Warriors up against Dusty & Sting.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@Twisted41

Good Review, Dude. Surprised you went so high on the Austin/Taker match, I personally can't stomach a ** star rating for that pile of fuckery-clustery. The Shamrock/Owen match sounds great, Gonna have to check out Summerslam 1997 in its entirety. Anways, Rep + for you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> This feels weird. Eyes were flickering while watching the first two matches of Starrcade '88, paused it, and now I am back alive. Anyway, the first match did not help me (Dr Death/Sullivan up against the Fantastics). 20 minutes of nothingness. **** for the civil war in the dark side. Start was so much perfection. Think I'll stick to Windham/Bigelow and Flair/Luger, and close the PPV out. Can't see myself tempted with Steiner/Rotunda or Warriors up against Dusty & Sting.


hmm. The opener looked promising for me. Didn't remember it so I wasn't sure what to expect. Yeah, you won't miss much from a Rotunda match or the Warriors vs Dusty & Sting. The latter was a letdown for me.

_"Civil War in the dark side."_ Great line.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Put WM IX on hold. Completely forgot about HBK/Sid at SSeries 96 which I haven't finished yet.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Starting my HHH 2000 project now. First up, HHH/Show for the title on the first Raw of the year.


I started something similar myself not too long ago but as usual just kind of stopped. Just the PPV matches though. I have the entire TV year but I'm too lazy to go looking through it for specific stuff. 

*RR - *****
NWO - ****1/2
Mania - haven't watched yet
BL - *****

On the BL match, I don't think I've ever heard a crowd be so INSANE for a stretch of time in my life. From the moment Austin's music hits to the chair shots to Linda coming to Stephanie getting shoved on her ass to Hebner to Rock's spinebuster to the People's Elbow to the pinfall. It's just sheer madness. What an awesome moment. The double Rock Bottom through the announce table is :mark: too. I think I might go watch the Iron Man now that I'm talking about it.

And this is probably off topic but whatever. I'm sincerely hoping that Bryan gets a singles run and soon. I was never a fan of his when he first came in but over the past year or so he has definitely won me over now that I've seen what he's capable of and I'm hoping that he gets the chance to shine on his own later in the year. I think a Cena/Bryan program has bags of potential. I really hope we get to see it at some stage.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

They need to loosen the reigns on D-Bry when he's in the ring. For example, Cesaro usually wowed people with new things. Nothing wrong with signatures and the like, but I would like a bit of variety in some matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> Anyone witnessed the Flyin' Brian vs Naitch Ric Flair from Worldwide in Feb 1990? Great stuff, nothing must see but if you stmble upon it, watch it.
> 
> Was hoping to grab some opinions on WrestleWar 90, especially the main event, Luger vs Flair for the title. Luger in the '90s always makes me very, oh so very cautious.


That Flair/Pillman is extremely good. They have another match the year after which isn't as good, but is really, really good in its own right.

Flair/Luger WWar is fantastic, but Starrcade 88 is better.

---------------------------------------


Going through the 2004 I wanted to watch now. Watched Guerrero/Lesnar again, but didn't bother finishing it this time. Mots of the time when I want to re-watch a match I decide if I get so bored or hate the match so much I turn it off and forget about it (happened twice with DX v. RKO from Cyber Sunday, man I hate that piece of shit). That wasn't the case here. I've just watched it enough and know it's a great match, but I'm watching things for the list and I felt during the match I wasn't going to vote for it.

Previous write-up of it, and my view didn;t change- 



> Brock Lesnar v Eddie Guerrero (No Way Out 2/15/04)
> --I'm not sure I love this enough any more to keep it on my list, but it gets enough love to warrant a nomination and I might as well do it (b/c I just watched it). Most of this is really good cut off moments by Guerrero when Lesnar underestimates and flat out toys with him. Lesnar's in control, and Eddie does something to halt it for a bit to get a breather until Brock eventually gets at least as tired as Eddie. Submission stuff was great; the fans at this time were riding Brock because it was his whole "YOU TAPPED OUT!" period and the pop for Eddie's first STF was great. Eddie going back to Brock's knee every now and then was a superb little sub-plot as well, and I'm not the type to give an arse if it pays off to the finish (thought it's cool when it does, obviously). Goldberg interference is what it is, but it wasn't directly the finish. Like, it would have been pretty shitty if Goldy had come in, speared Brock and Eddie pinned him, but there was a moment or two between spear and three count so I'm not going to be bothered by it.


The 4/12 4-on-4 has a really awesome opening five-seven minutes. Benoit/Flair chop battle, Flair eating shit all over the place, Benjamin being eager, really wasn't a single dull moment. I think the match could have used less time because I started to lose that sense of 'this is motherfucking great' during Benjamin's FIP run, but it picks back up and I can't TRULY complain about anything in the match. The HBK nip-up > Batista clothesline was bad-friggin-ass. Orton sold the end superkick like a pro. Really, really fun tag.

I have the same thoughts on Jack/Orton as last time. Re-post again (for whatever reason). 

*looks* Uh, I really thought I wrote something about this. Turns out all I wrote was.....



> Watched the Orton/Foley street fight and didn't feel it needed to be listed (was pretty great though).


I do still agree. It's a very good match but I don't adore it.




Eddie Guerrero v. The Big Show (SmackDown 4/15/04)
I made a list of all the WWE matches I want to watch for the 2000s, and this wasn't even on it. I had no intention to even watch it for the list and only did because a wile ago I put it on the same disc as another match I have planned to watch. I am so glad I wound up checking it out again because it completely fucking blew me away. The first and only time I watched this was in 2011 and I thought it was 'very good not great'. 2011 me is a bigger piece of shit than I realised because this is clearly amazing. I was in complete awe while watching it. Show looked maybe the best he ever has. He's a huge, huge guy, but I'm not sure he's ever looked bigger than he has here. I remember a great post made by someone that said Show kind of always looked like a superweight instead of a giant, which was OK, yet you want a giant looking like a giant. I'll be damned if I didn't mistake him for motherfucking Andre here. While I think some of it has to do with how small Eddie is, he was really working perfectly. I adore how he found ways to chuck Eddie around with one arm, including that awesomely awesome awesomesauce one-arm Irish whip. The one-arm sweep while Show was on his knees and Eddie was standing was incredible, too. He practically stands on Eddie's head at one point. The head which held the brain of a genius. Guerrero, man. Goddamn Eddie Guerrero. I think 2003/2004 is really the first time he became a great babyface, but man did he become a GREAT babyface or what? His selling while getting pummelled was perfect. I think my favourite was how he cringed and yelled (I think he said something like 'oh GEEEEEZ') when Show had this monster armbar on (WITH ONE ARM). Or all the cool ways he found to slide across the ring when Show would throw him. He also found awesome ways to combat Show and make his comebacks. The dropkick to the leg so Show goes face-first into the turnbuckle was amazing and perfectly timed. He rakes the eyes, stomps on the toes, and even pulls at the chest-hair (!!!!) to try to get the match in his favour. I think things like that made Show seem like even more of a giant. It's like Jerry lighting Tom's tail on fire with a candle because Tom is so much bigger than he is and he has to do those things to win (or, whatever Tom and Jerry was about that wasn't 'winning'). The wrench being snuck into the boot is one of the more amusing Lie, Cheat, Steal spots and Eddie firing way like mad at the head to capitalise was bizarrely satisfying despite not really being a sneaky tactic. Similarly I think the ref 'bump' was better than most ref bumps. Show kicks out by throwing Eddie and Eddie lands on top of the ref; looked pretty legit as far as ref's being wiped goes. Then Eddie uses a low-blow (a sneaky tactic!) and wins with the frog splash. That really felt like a hard-earned and well-deserved victory (despite the SNEAKY). I only have like 5 matches on my list right now and HHH/Jericho LMS is at the bottom. I'm not sure that's as good as this. Really a phenomenally good match; close to being a top 5 for SmackDown. While I'm at it, this is likely a top ten for Eddie Guerrero. I might watch it again tomorrow morning.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> @Twisted41
> 
> Good Review, Dude. Surprised you went so high on the Austin/Taker match, I personally can't stomach a ** star rating for that pile of fuckery-clustery. The Shamrock/Owen match sounds great, Gonna have to check out Summerslam 1997 in its entirety. Anways, Rep + for you.


Haha I didn't think the main event was that much of a cluster fuck. The only thing I can say against it is that Austin low blows Taker in plain view of the ref who doesn't really do anything about it. Also they probably spent a way more than 10 seconds outside the ring, but then from what I've seen from the Attitude era that shit happened all the time. 

Thinking about it, I don't know man, maybe my score is just a little high, but I quite enjoyed it. It had a big match feel and following this feud (I've been watching old Raw as well) in the lead up to this event has been great. All the storyline stuff surrounding this match boosted it for me. So yeah I wouldn't go higher than ***1/2 but no lower than *** either.

On the Lion's Den match, it is pretty cool. But I have to say I almost enjoyed their Dungeon match more which I gave **1/2. That match was just so hard hitting, relentless and up close and personal. It was great, but then that finish was terrible and it was about half the length. Either way, both are really full on fights and very unique. I would say everybody should really see both matches. I believe there are other matches of this style with Steve Blackman and maybe someone else. But I don't know anything about those.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Saw some docs several days back:

The American Dream: The Dusty Rhodes Story 8/10
Hart & Soul: Hart Family Anthology 10/10
Twist of Fate: The Matt & Jeff Hardy Story 10/10

Will probably appreciate the docs more if I bought the set and watched the matches too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reading the write up on Guerrero vs Show from '04 makes me revert back to wondering why their match from No Mercy '03 wasn't too good. I kind of like it, but it kind of drags and gets a tad boring. Which shouldn't happen when both of them lock up. I have standards when it comes to both I guess.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Going to watch Superbrawl 92, I've never seen a match from the show and it looks pretty stacked. four matches that interest me a hell of a lot are Pillman/Liger, Windham/Rhodes vs. Austin/Zybysko, Anderson/Eaton vs. The Steiners and Rude/Steamboat. Any opinions on the main event, Sting/Luger? Is that worth checking out as well?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

> - WWE’s The Best of Madison Square Garden will be released as a three-disc DVD and two-disc Blu-ray August 27th, WWEDVDNews.com has confirmed. Word is that new interviews with Bruno Sammartino will be featured and that a lot of never before seen on DVD matches will be included.
> 
> WWEDVDNews reports that John Cena’s 2008 Royal Rumble victory plus Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon’s ladder match from WrestleMania 10 will be highlighted.
> 
> ...


This one should be interesting


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Going to watch Superbrawl 92, I've never seen a match from the show and it looks pretty stacked. four matches that interest me a hell of a lot are Pillman/Liger, Windham/Rhodes vs. Austin/Zybysko, Anderson/Eaton vs. The Steiners and Rude/Steamboat. Any opinions on the main event, Sting/Luger? Is that worth checking out as well?


I recall it having a bit of a lukewarm blowoff, but nothing to call bad. Almost certain it was solid - just painfully obvious Stinger was winning. Don't see how that should drastically affect the match since it was back in 1992. So what am I rambling about? haha.

You haven't seen Liger vs Pillman yet? omg watch NOW.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK destroying "HHH's" office was priceless. He was lugging shit around with ease. Guy is a freak. Him breathing down the neck of that random employee was :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If they do this whole "Rock shows up one week and talks, Brock shows up the next week and responds" shit for Rock Vs Brock I'm probably going to rage. While I HIGHLY fucking doubt that it'll go on last (especially with Cena/Taker supposedly in the works), I hate the fact that somebody as beast as BROCK with so much to offer is going to be used in a predictable Wrestlemania match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If they keep booking him in segments like that I don't care what happens. :lmao

He gave the WHC more credibility than it has received in years just by holding it on his shoulder. Guy looks like a true champ. Makes the rest of the roster look like a joke.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Heyman/Lesnar dynamic is easily the most entertaining thing on the roster due to their real life friendship being able to shine through on the screen. Same goes with Heyman/Punk except replace Brock's natural charisma & aura with Punk's insane skills on the microphone. 

I REALLY hope Brock works more PPVs so we can get more GOLD from him & Heyman.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

In other news, heard Ambrose faces Bryan on SD this week. :mark:


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

^^ I shall be watching that little potential gem 

Speaking of D-Bryan, I got a 12-disc DVD set of Bryan's run in ROH and for some reason I've yet to pop it in and start it. Am I crazy??


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Good God, where'd you get that?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Good God, where'd you get that?


Platt


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> In other news, heard Ambrose faces Bryan on SD this week. :mark:








:mark:

:mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

admiremyclone said:


> Platt


How much was it? Might need to get my hands on that.



Big Z said:


> :mark:
> 
> :mark:


Yeah. My reaction as well. Apologies if I wasn't supposed to spoil that, but FUCK that should be awesome.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

It's supposed to get decent time too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ambrose suck he is so vanilla 8*D:drake28*D, In all honest I want to see Rollins get some singles action


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> Speaking of D-Bryan, I got a 12-disc DVD set of Bryan's run in ROH and for some reason I've yet to pop it in and start it. Am I crazy??


Yes, you are. I just finished his match vs Joe @ Midnight Express Reunion and it is fantastic but the same can be said for the majority of Dragon's ROH matches. I've probably watched more Dragon matches this year than any other guy. He is the best in the world.

Two more matches from DGUSA for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E9pTux3m00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htIN5Oi392g

first one is vs Naruki Doi and second is vs Shingo and both are easily ****1/2+.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Dragon vs. Shingo is fucking :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I hope I'm not the only one who finds Kurt Angle pretty damn overrated, after all I've seen from him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Believe Angle's move-set was a bit annoying post 2005


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I either hate Kurt's matches or I love them, there's no middle ground with that man, for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I either hate Kurt's matches or I love them, there's no middle ground with that man, for me.


This X a Million.

While I hate a bulk of his TNA stuff, throughout his career he's always had a few performances every now and then that are actually AWESOME.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

He does have some awesome shit in this SD Six project I'm doing, but his psychology (or lack of there-of) annoys the fuck out of me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

feeling TLCish today gonna watch the 4 way tlc from 2002 and miz vs lawler


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The GOAT TLC match and the most underrated TLC match, in my opinion. Good choices


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Kurt Angle is one of the few people whose lack of psychology doesn't matter much to me. Regardless of what the fuck he's thinking half the time, his matches almost always entertain me and that's really what matters to me in the end.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kurt Angle has legitimately had me RAGING at times watching some of his matches (I think I actually got a headache from watching his match with Hardy that time from that place that I don't care to remember). Yeah its kinda fucking silly and stupid and sad but some of his matches really do make me wanna kill people . Most of them just annoy me in the sense that I'll never watch them again and think they absolutely fucking suck .

Still haven't watched any wrestling aside from weekly show stuff. Keep saying I'm gonna. But then I cba when I get home from work. And now I have less days off I doubt I'll see much for a while .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I should add a caveat to my above statement: I've only seen two of Angle's matches from TNA - one being the LMS against AJ Styles that I found to be pretty good and the other a horrible match against Hardy where they exchanged finishers for like 20 minutes.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK the No Surrender 2010 match.

For some reason I'm REALLY excited to watch Kane Vs Snitsky from New Year's Revolution 2005 as two big fuckers beating the piss out of each other has clearly become a preferred style of mine thanks to guys like Henry & BROCK.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kurt Angle seems to be a funny case of a guy that went from being the most overrated wrestler in the world to not getting respect from some circles. He is certainly not a GOAT candidate, and he has gradually gotten worse since 2004. However, he does have an awesome catalog of matches and he has great chemistry with tons of other workers. He can also give us some great performances as a face (vs. Austin, Lesnar) even if psychology and storytelling are his weak points.

Finally rewatched Cena/Jericho from Survivor Series 2008. Hated this when I first watched it, but that was mainly because of the booking along with my general dislike towards Cena's character. The first five minutes which consisted of Cena doubting himself due to his neck surgery was probably one of the greatest character performances in Cena's career. Jericho, being the master professional that he is, responded correctly by attacking that neck for the remainder of the match. I don't think I was ever more hyped by Cena's offense here than in any other match besides ER 12. The ending did feel kind of "empty" and sloppy to be honest, and that is what is holding me back from giving it a higher rating. ****3/4 - *****

Also watched Rock/Rikishi from Survivor Series 2000. My goodness, why can't The Rock work this well as a babyface anymore? The way that he bumps around for Rikishi in this match is ridiculous. The crowd was also *HOT* for The Rock. These two did a great job with building suspense for every move that either one set up for. To this day, I still can't believe that Rikishi was able to kick out of that first Rock Bottom. :lmao at Rikishi's stinkface on The Rock. Genuinely one of the funniest things I've ever seen in a match. Highly recommend this underappreciated gem. ****1/2*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the only thing of TNA Ive ever watched are the flair promos :lol :lol


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

KingOfKings said:


> FUCK the No Surrender 2010 match.
> 
> For some reason I'm REALLY excited to watch Kane Vs Snitsky from New Year's Revolution 2005 as *two big fuckers beating the piss out of each other* has clearly become a preferred style of mine thanks to guys like Henry & BROCK.


Funny you should say that, because I'm watching Taker/Batista WM23 as we speak. Last time I watched it was about three years ago and I can't remember it being this good. Like, before I probably had it around the *** 1/2 - *** 3/4 range and now it's comfortably **** 1/4. I love it when I rewatch matches and this happens.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Angle/Edge matches are pretty dope tbh.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> the only thing of TNA Ive ever watched are the flair promos :lol :lol


some old school stuff of tna is really good. particularly the x division stuff until about early 06.

do yourself a favor and watch the much heralded joe/daniels/styles match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pib3RjO45tw



> Angle/Edge matches are pretty dope tbh.


I watched these a few weeks ago and gave a small review.

I gave their first encounter ****1/2, hair vs hair the same, and the cage was something over 4* but i forget.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

TNA really did have some amazing stuff from 05-07. The Ultimate X match between AJ Styles & Christopher Daniels vs LAX at No Surrender 2006 was something that jumped out in my head as being amazing.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Gave the Trips/HBK HIAC another go just now since I haven't seen it in years and I don't quite get the hate this thing receives after watching it. I never got bored and loved the transition from them beating each other with moves etc to beating each other with the cell and then the weapons. I think the thing that lets it down is the ending. I get what they were trying to do and no doubt that anybody would be exhausted after putting their body through all that for 47 minutes and 26 seconds (thanks JR) but it did drag a bit. Also, the table spot, while cool, was a bit random. The back work from Trips is great, the selling from Shawn is great and they tell the story of wanting to murder each other in the most villainous way possible while at the same time showing such heroism to avoid defeat that nobody comes out looking like a winner in the end. A complete and total war and JR marking out when it was over made me mark out too. His passion is just infectious.

*****1/4*

Bring the flames lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Eurghhh, that X-Division three way is my candidate for the most overrated match of the decade. Probably wouldn't make my top 15 matches in TNA's history yet people call it one of the best matches ever in any promotion. Oh well, each to their own, I know one or two people agree with me so I'm not alone


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

It's a spotfest for sure but it's fun and entertaining. Not wasting time on it unless you're super critical of every little thing.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh yeah, it's fun and entertaining and it's worth a watch if you've never seen it before, I just can't understand the ***** ratings and the claims of it being the best match in TNA history / best three way ever etc.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*@funnyfaces1*: I might have to watch that Rock/Rikishi match. Actually, I'm going to. I've found 2000 Rikishi to be incredibly fun in the little bit I've seen of him in my HHH project.



Starbuck said:


> Gave the Trips/HBK HIAC another go just now since I haven't seen it in years and I don't quite get the hate this thing receives after watching it. I never got bored and loved the transition from them beating each other with moves etc to beating each other with the cell and then the weapons. I think the thing that lets it down is the ending. I get what they were trying to do and no doubt that anybody would be exhausted after putting their body through all that for 47 minutes and 26 seconds (thanks JR) but it did drag a bit. Also, the table spot, while cool, was a bit random. The back work from Trips is great, the selling from Shawn is great and they tell the story of wanting to murder each other in the most villainous way possible while at the same time showing such heroism to avoid defeat that nobody comes out looking like a winner in the end. A complete and total war and JR marking out when it was over made me mark out too. His passion is just infectious.
> 
> *****1/4*
> 
> Bring the flames lol.


I think it's a good match. Not GREAT or ****+ though. It did drag at times and would've been better if they shaved off 10 minutes but the good outweighs the bad quite comfortably for me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@bigbuxx yea man Ill give it a watch

@FluxCapacitor Ive never seen the 4 way tlc but heard great things


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> *@funnyfaces1*: I might have to watch that Rock/Rikishi match. Actually, I'm going to. I've found 2000 Rikishi to be incredibly fun in the little bit I've seen of him in my HHH project.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a good match. Not GREAT or ****+ though. It did drag at times and would've been better if they shaved off 10 minutes but the good outweighs the bad quite comfortably for me.


Is the Rikishi cage match with Val in 2000? Remember the one where he jumped from the top? What a spot that is. Poor Val. Rikishi had a great series with Benoit in 2000 over the IC title from what I can recall too that is probably worth checking out. 

Agreed that they could have shaved 10 mins off in order to have a better finishing stretch but it didn't even feel like I had been watching for 30 mins plus until JR mentioned it on commentary. I was expecting it to be slow as fuck given some opinions but thankfully it didn't come across that way for me. I like it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Is the Rikishi cage match with Val in 2000? Remember the one where he jumped from the top? What a spot that is. Poor Val. Rikishi had a great series with Benoit in 2000 over the IC title from what I can recall too that is probably worth checking out.
> 
> Agreed that they could have shaved 10 mins off in order to have a better finishing stretch but it didn't even feel like I had been watching for 30 mins plus until JR mentioned it on commentary. I was expecting it to be slow as fuck given some opinions but thankfully it didn't come across that way for me. I like it.


No idea.

I have to be in the mood to watch that match. When I am it's an easy watch, if I'm not it's difficult to sit through. As a result it's not something I'm in a rush to watch again anytime soon. Or ever. I do think it's good though.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Is the Rikishi cage match with Val in 2000? Remember the one where he jumped from the top? What a spot that is. Poor Val. Rikishi had a great series with Benoit in 2000 over the IC title from what I can recall too that is probably worth checking out.


Fully Loaded 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...-loaded-2000_sport?search_algo=2#.UYrAc6KG070


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

What did you guys, think of No Mercy 2002?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Finally watched TLC IV for the first time. Jeff Hardy taking that back body drop out to the floor was nuts. The end was flat to me with Kane coming back after being out of the ring for like 10 minutes. By the time he came back I forgot he was even in the match. It was pretty good but doesn't hold a candle to 2 or 3.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> No idea.
> 
> I have to be in the mood to watch that match. When I am it's an easy watch, if I'm not it's difficult to sit through. As a result it's not something I'm in a rush to watch again anytime soon. Or ever. I do think it's good though.


I think it's at FL or J'Day 00 now that I think about it. Definitely worth checking out for the Rikishi spot alone. A guy that big shouldn't be jumping off cages. 

I'm with you that you have to be in the mood for it, same goes for any longer match, at least for me. I'd need to be in the mood before I would watch an ironman or a lengthy match like this one or the HBK/Cena match from London etc otherwise I just get distracted.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I have to be 'in the zone' when it comes to watching long matches, even if they just so happen to be all time classics such as arguably the greatest North American match ever (Flair-Steamboat COTC, Flair-Windham BOTB II). I just don't have the attention span alot of the time to sit down and watch a wrestling match that goes over 35-40 minutes long unless I really feel like it.

I'm getting back into watching full PPVs again for review purposes though, since most of the time they usually offer a wide variety of styles and gimmicks and the like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Eurghhh, that X-Division three way is my candidate for the most overrated match of the decade. Probably wouldn't make my top 15 matches in TNA's history yet people call it one of the best matches ever in any promotion. Oh well, each to their own, I know one or two people agree with me so I'm not alone


(Y)

I never want to watch that match again. Done with it.

I'll never understand people jumping towards the LAX vs Phenomenal Angels match as a go-to for TNA either. I mean I LIKE it. I just don't think it's a great match. Really good, but I expected it to be better. Funnily enough, I think it is b/c of how Daniels wins it too. Even though LAX were the stars of the match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

DX vs. McMahon's/Show HIAC is a fun as hell bloodbath. They're all bleeding by the end of this thing and Shane looked legit fucking dead when they were putting the neck brace on him. Unreal selling from Simba. 

*****

FUN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Love that match and all of its fun glory.

Speaking of Val vs Rikishi in the cage from Fully Loaded '00 - just watched it. It's pretty good too. Val bumps like a mad man.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I can't imagine what it must feel like to lie there listening the all those fans going crazy and just waiting for a 500lb man to land on you from that height. Crazy spot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In all fairness; Big Show killing pretty much EVERYBODY in 2006 was pretty fucking awesome.

He might actually be my darkhorse for worker of the year that year if Benoit/Finlay didn't rule so much. Show was certainly the best all around character in 2006 from where I sit, very Mark Henry HALL OF PAIN-ESQUE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Val kind of lucked out with Rikishi putting his hands/wrists down on the splash to absorb some impact. He shouldn't have though. Rikishi looked to have hurt himself pretty bad by doing so. Not withstanding that Val def felt the brunt of a 400 pound splash from about oh...15 feet oh so. 

Spot is still surreal.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I hate the fact that somebody as beast as BROCK with so much to offer is going to be used in a predictable Wrestlemania match.


Like this past years Mania against Trips.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's insane how fucking good Vince and Shane are considering they've only had a handful of matches each. I think I've enjoyed every match from both men in one way or another. Even Vince's match against Stephanie was fun as hell.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Angle's pretty horrible but at the end of the day its all subjective and if he entertains you and puts out matches that cater more to your preferred tastes then there's nothing wrong with considering him an all time great. Clique is one of the greatest advocates for Angle as a worker on here and despite my highly contrary belief I've never even come close to an argument with him, simply because he argues himself perfectly and treats those with a differing viewpoint with respect. I come out of discussions with him far more tempted to watch an Angle match and see if I can uncover a performance that makes me think a little better of him, rather than a typical Angle discussion where I want to watch Carlito/Ken Kennedy to escape me from the doldrums of a tiresome argument.

That No Surrender '10 match is shockingly bad however. I mean, there are a lot of guys here that think less of Angle than others would imagine, but that was truly putrid and arguably the worst example of his weaknesses and faults. It was just shambolic with sloppy transitions, bumps, sequences and spots being tossed out for no discernable reason, lazy setups for the Ankle lock sequences and counters, Angle getting legit broken ribs from a Swanton to the floor in the first ten minutes, Hardy forgetting about the ankle the minute they go into sudden death after being trapped in it for numerous minutes prior to the initial draw, finishers being exchanged and kicked out of repeatedly killing the drama, ANOTHER interference leading to another sudden death spell before the most ridiculous copout ending. The rematch on IMPACT wasn't that much better and featured one of the worst sequences I've seen where Angle hits two angle slams in a row, Hardy kicks out nonshalantly and Tenay has the most timid expression to a finisher kickout I've heard, Angle then stalks Hardy and proceeds to lock on a body scissors sleeper. It was just laughable.

Still, he has some great performances in his time and with the right opponent he can be led into a structure that highlights his strengths and cleverly limits his faults. Of course if you're someone who generally loves him anyway then he's the dogs bollocks 99% of the time anyway. Healthy discussion and disagreement is perfectly fine with guys like Angle. Where it falls apart is when one party cannot approach the discussion without throwing childish remarks simply because they disagee with the other person. 

You also get clowns who will argue 'but Angle won a gold medal' as a legitimate reason to him being a better worker than guys as well, something that no matter how many times I try and understand I simply can never grasp.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Finally watched TLC IV for the first time. Jeff Hardy taking that back body drop out to the floor was nuts. The end was flat to me with Kane coming back after being out of the ring for like 10 minutes. By the time he came back I forgot he was even in the match. It was pretty good but doesn't hold a candle to 2 or 3.



Finished this a few minutes ago. Very fun match, though I too forgot about Kane.

Decided to skip HBK/Sid for MITB II and...why the fuck is Lashley in this match?

Edit - Just hit me, he was Vinny Mac's personal masturbation material.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

KingOfKings said:


> Yeah, I have to be 'in the zone' when it comes to watching long matches, even if they just so happen to be all time classics such as arguably the greatest North American match ever (Flair-Steamboat COTC, Flair-Windham BOTB II). I just don't have the attention span alot of the time to sit down and watch a wrestling match that goes over 35-40 minutes long unless I really feel like it.
> 
> I'm getting back into watching full PPVs again for review purposes though, since most of the time they usually offer a wide variety of styles and gimmicks and the like.


totally agree I thought I was the only one that has this probelm, I some times have the attention span of a dog lol I checked out that TNA thiple threat match ****1/4-1/2 good stuff, spotfest but fun


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> How much was it? Might need to get my hands on that.


Seabs has a 22 disc (might be a tad less/more) Danielson ROH comp covering his entire '05-06 title reign as well which I've seen the listing for and is ridiculously awesome looking. That 18 month stretch was Bryan's peak as a worker imo. He was always a great hand capable of delivering some well worked technical matches with a mix of the European style and stiff striking intertwined, but that heel run demonstrated his character work and ability to work as an expressive and captivating performer in ways that exposed new depth to his work. He went from being a generally consistent technical worker into one of the finest performers on the roster, able to work just as well selling, stooging and working basic holds as he was working mind blowing technical exchanges. Its why anyone with a lick of common sense and knowledge of his work knew he was very much cut from the same cloth as Punk in being able to adapt and shine in the WWE environment where he'd be afforded a less expansive moveset and forced to rely on the fundamentals of wrestling instead.


edit: re. attention spans and watching longer matches. Generally I don't have much of an issue sitting through a long match. As long as one performer or both are adding something to the match, be it character work, playing to a crowd, stooing or the actual wrestling sequences I typically can remian fully invested in the work. Then again, I managed to be entertained by a 25 minute headlock sequence during the Butch Reed/Flair Mid South match from '85 so maybe I'm not human *.

*Of course is pure hyperbole. Anyone who sees that headlock sequence can attest Reed has one of the best headlocks they've ever seen and that Flair suitably works and fights within the hold to make it a key segment of the match and not a mere resthold.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

His entire championship run (title matches + matches he was in while champ) is on XWT. 54 matches in all.

I've said it in other parts of this site that in his championship run you can see him try to be a good heel in his first defense vs Aries from that set and watch him tone it down until he hit the perfect amount and it really was perfect.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

What's most impressive is how versatile his matches and defences were. He worked the technical and chain wrestling driven defences against Nigel perfectly, demonstrating how great a champion and talent he was but heeling it up just enough for the matches to have depth and each sequence and battle to advance the story (no matter how much I detest the stupidity on Nigel and Bryan's parts in executing the hideous unprotected ringpost bumps spot the Unified finish with the elbows on Nigel's bloodied head is still a lasting ROH memory). Then he worked as the 00s version of Flair when facing Strong and stooging and continually trying to find ways to control the match. The way he put over Strong as being seemingly unbeatable on every night they faced was just remarkable and it produced some of the best ROH title matchups with a genuinly strong character dynamic with the vanilla but likeable Strong up against the devious and cunning Danielson. Then toss in how he worked against Joe at FOC and the Cage rematch, the Hero defence during the ROH/CZW build, the Alex Shelley title defence, working Lance Storm in his return match and then the great Cabana matches and how he works with a legit separated shoulder and desperately tries to salvage his title.

The Homicide Final Battle '06 match is pretty stellar and a really great Danielson take on a Kawada title match imo. Just the way he gradually lets the damaged shoulder overcome him and hinder his ability, culminating in the final exchange where one choice blow to the arm renders him immobile long enough for Homicide to finally dethrone him was just immaculate storytelling.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

MITB II Wrestlemania 22 (2006) ****


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> What's most impressive is how versatile his matches and defences were. He worked the technical and chain wrestling driven defences against Nigel perfectly, demonstrating how great a champion and talent he was but heeling it up just enough for the matches to have depth and each sequence and battle to advance the story (no matter how much I detest the stupidity on Nigel and Bryan's parts in executing the hideous unprotected ringpost bumps spot the Unified finish with the elbows on Nigel's bloodied head is still a lasting ROH memory). Then he worked as the 00s version of Flair when facing Strong and stooging and continually trying to find ways to control the match. The way he put over Strong as being seemingly unbeatable on every night they faced was just remarkable and it produced some of the best ROH title matchups with a genuinly strong character dynamic with the vanilla but likeable Strong up against the devious and cunning Danielson. Then toss in how he worked against Joe at FOC and the Cage rematch, the Hero defence during the ROH/CZW build, the Alex Shelley title defence, working Lance Storm in his return match and then the great Cabana matches and how he works with a legit separated shoulder and desperately tries to salvage his title.


That last part reminds me of one of my favorite all time matches when KENTA tries to destroy his arm at GBH. I just saw that Hero defense for the first time a few days ago and I wasn't expecting much* and it was incredible. ****1/4+

*because their match in '09 in PWG sucked imo. One rare instance of trying to make epic happen and it not happening.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Batista/Trips HIAC. Every time I see this thing it manages to get even more gruesome. I can't believe half the shit they pulled in this match and I was suddenly struck with the thought that so many people were going crazy for two men bleeding like stuck pigs and hitting each other with barbed wire. And they say we have evolved as a species since the days of the Gladiators 8*D. My random thought of the day. Moving on....this match is just fantastic and I mean _fantastic_. So brutal with the chain whipping and the barbed wire steel chair shots to both the back and head to name but a few. I love the underlying sentiment that Batista is champion, he has beat HHH but he's still unproven to some degree and that THIS is where he's going to earn his stripes. Then you've got the whole HHH undefeated in the cell thing and the fact that this is their third match together. Something's got to give. I'm almost inclined to go the full 5* on this but something is holding me back. I mean, it's truly awesome but not a perfect match. It's not a 4.5* match either because it's better than that so naturally that makes it a comfortable *****3/4.*

So glad I bought this HIAC set. Going to watch some UNDERTAKER tomorrow.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Must spend B-Day money on wrestling dvds.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched Hunter/Brock ss 12 again and gosh its such a polarizing match, you either love it or hate it, I am in the loving it category ****1/4-1/2. Brock selling of the stomach :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brock/Trips SS is *****1/4* for me. I've yet to watch their Mania match since Mania itself so I can't really speak on that. Intrigued by their cage match tbh. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> That last part reminds me of one of my favorite all time matches when KENTA tries to destroy his arm at GBH. I just saw that Hero defense for the first time a few days ago and I wasn't expecting much* and it was incredible. ****1/4+
> 
> *because their match in '09 in PWG sucked imo. One rare instance of trying to make epic happen and it not happening.


Ah, forgot the KENTA matches. Yes the first encounter (Glory By Honor V Night II I think) is tremendous and a lot of that is down to one of Danielson's finest performances. I'm generally not a huge fan of KENTA bar when he works against the heavyweights as I find his offence far more engrossing and think he's underrated in shining in that environment, though stick him with someone closer to his size and I generally struggle to like much bar the great SUWA match from NOAH in '05. Still, he was perfect as the international sensation picking apart a broken and fragile champion but Danielson's herculean effort in wrestling back control of the match marked a defining moment in his title reign. The fact he was still able to work afterwards as a cocky heel is exemplary and testament to his ability to portray a true champion here but not evoke a necessary face turn.

Haven't seen the Hero '09 match for some time (Guerre Sans Frontieres?) but I really dug their BOLA 11/2/08 match. 15 minutes and sees Danielson coming in with a damaged leg. Hero is great in respectfully choosing to stay away from the leg before immediately seizing upon it once Danielson gets the better of him. From there you get Hero as the vicious, methodical and brutal dissector and Danielson working underneath and trying to find a way to overcome certain defeat. Even the Danielson dive spot works through its timing as Danielson having to use everything to try and put Hero down, even at the expense of the leg.

Danielson/Low Ki from JAPW '02 is also an overlooked but wonderful Danielson match. Its a submission match and the camera angle is right underneath the action and you get to see the intricacies of every escape and counter. Unlike your typical indy mat wrestling though there's a real sense of bite and struggle in every transition (think Benoit/Finlay esque) and as a result it becomes highly engrossing and not a choreographed exhibition. If you haven't seen it I'd highly recommend it if you could obtain a link since its seemingly hard to track down.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Sorry I just couldn't stand both Brock/HHH matches. Probably because it could be so so much better. This was a dream match in 02. Id give they're SS match ***1/4 rating.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah vs Hero is from Guerre Sans Frontier. KENTA vs the big guys, as you say, is gold. Him vs Kobashi x2, vs Takayama x2, w/Kobashi vs Nakajima/Sasaki, and vs Tenryu are also some of my favorites. Can't get enough of solid big guy vs little guy action. I'll look for that Lo Ki match you mentioned.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

MITB III Wrestlemania 23 (2007) ***1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> Yeah vs Hero is from Guerre Sans Frontier. KENTA vs the big guys, as you say, is gold. Him vs Kobashi x2, vs Takayama x2, w/Kobashi vs Nakajima/Sasaki, and vs Tenryu are also some of my favorites. Can't get enough of solid big guy vs little guy action. I'll look for that Lo Ki match you mentioned.


The Takayama & Tenryu matches are my favourites out of those you mentioned, but I've heard good stuff about the Kobashi match so I'll make a note to try and watch it soon. The Takayama and Tenryu matches are wonderful though. Both Takayama and Tenryu know how to brutalise a smaller opponent and rough him up and in Tenryu's case you get an array of brilliant facial expressions and subtle little touches whilst Takayama goes for generally more harrowing knee strikes. 

The Ki match is great and I'm confident you'd dig it. Much better than their Final Battle '04 match and likely superior to their '02 singles match (can't remember the show name but Shamrock was the special guest referee).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> A bunch of amazing commentary re: Danielson's ROH title reign.


I'm going to need to talk to Seabs about acquiring this. Sounds awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> It's insane how fucking good Vince and Shane are considering they've only had a handful of matches each. I think I've enjoyed every match from both men in one way or another. Even Vince's match against Stephanie was fun as hell.


Vince vs Steph rocks.

Only Vince match I think I don't enjoy is the Street Fight vs Flair. I recall them having a match on RAW in '08 around WM 24 time that was utterly fun. Made up for things.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Seabs has a 22 disc (might be a tad less/more) Danielson ROH comp covering his entire '05-06 title reign as well which I've seen the listing for and is ridiculously awesome looking. That 18 month stretch was Bryan's peak as a worker imo. He was always a great hand capable of delivering some well worked technical matches with a mix of the European style and stiff striking intertwined, but that heel run demonstrated his character work and ability to work as an expressive and captivating performer in ways that exposed new depth to his work. He went from being a generally consistent technical worker into one of the finest performers on the roster, able to work just as well selling, stooging and working basic holds as he was working mind blowing technical exchanges. Its why anyone with a lick of common sense and knowledge of his work knew he was very much cut from the same cloth as Punk in being able to adapt and shine in the WWE environment where he'd be afforded a less expansive moveset and forced to rely on the fundamentals of wrestling instead.
> 
> 
> edit: re. attention spans and watching longer matches. Generally I don't have much of an issue sitting through a long match. As long as one performer or both are adding something to the match, be it character work, playing to a crowd, stooing or the actual wrestling sequences I typically can remian fully invested in the work. Then again, I managed to be entertained by a 25 minute headlock sequence during the Butch Reed/Flair Mid South match from '85 so maybe I'm not human *.
> ...


Set sounds unreal. Most of Danielson's match during his championship reign were. So many different types of matches vs different types of opponents. Majestic.

Nutty to think that comp doesn't even touch the Danielson 07, 08, & 09 work. The '09 work mostly comes from elsewhere except for some tags & TV matches vs Tyler Black, but the other two years - oh man. Especially '07 thanks to the absolutely FANTASTIC series vs Takeshi Morishima. You want to see brilliance realized upon every bout, no matter how long or short. Watch those. _(not you, specifically, SI, but anyone in this case.)_ Oh, and the most excellent Danielson vs Jacobs match from Unscripted II is in his '07 catalog. It's getting absurd now when you look at his matches on a show to show basis.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've seen the Morishima stuff, but it has been a while. Really, really good. Damn, I really want this comp now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched the first two of their matches recently. Ah, it's far and away too damn great for words. Got their Fight Without Honor blowoff downloaded. Lets say I think I may need to get reacquainted with that match right about now.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm going to need to talk to Seabs about acquiring this. Sounds awesome.


Seabs is highly dependable when it comes to this. Very sensible with his pricing and prompt service. Found the match listing for you to save you or Seabs himself having to track it down  :

Bryan Danielson - ROH Champion (23 Discs)



Spoiler: Match Listing



Disc 1
(40) vs James Gibson - Glory By Honor IV
(36) vs Austin Aries - Enter The Dragon
(33) vs Steve Corino - Buffalo Stampede
(45) vs Roderick Strong - This Means War

Disc 2
(35) vs Chris Sabin - Showdown in Motown
(51) vs Roderick Strong - Vendetta
(10) vs Azriel - Night of Tribute
(36) vs Christopher Daniels - Night Of Tribute

Disc 3
(29) vs Rocky Romero - Steel Cage Warfare
(32) vs Naomichi Marufuji - Final Battle 2005
(42) vs Hero - Hell Freezes Over

Disc 4
(37) w/ Jay Lethal vs Austin Aries & Roderick Strong - Tag Wars 2006
(40) vs AJ Styles - Dissension
(25) vs Xavier - Unscripted II

Disc 5
(52) w/ CM Punk vs Jimmy Rave & Adam Pearce - Unscripted II
(42) vs Jimmy Rave - 4th Anniversary Show

Disc 6
(50) vs Alex Shelley - Arena Warfare
(46) w/ Samoa Joe vs KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji - Best In The World 2006
(27) w/ Delirious vs Jimmy Rave & Alex Shelley - Dragon Gate Challenge

Disc 7
(65) vs Roderick Strong - Supercard of Honor
(36) vs Lance Storm - Better Than Our Best
(13) vs Colt Cabana - The 100th Show

Disc 8
(29) vs Delirious - The 100th Show
(24) vs Jimmy Yang - Weekend Of Champions Night 1
(41) vs Nigel McGuinness - Weekend of Champions Night 2

Disc 9
(39) w/ Christopher Daniels vs Christian Cage & Colt Cabana - How We Roll
(35) vs Delirious - Ring of Homicide
(45) vs Homicide - Destiny

Disc 10
(34) vs KENTA vs Samoa Joe - In Your Face
(30) vs Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer - Throwdown
(38) vs Colt Cabana - Chi-Town Struggle

Disc 11
(27) vs Sonjay Dutt - Death Before Dishonor IV
(62) Cage of Death - Death Before Dishonor VI

Disc 12
(27) vs Austin Aries vs Delirious vs Homicide - War Of The Wire II
(35) vs Nigel McGuinness - Generation Now
(19) vs Jack Evans - Time To Man Up

Disc 13
(73) vs Samoa Joe - Fight Of The Century
(45) vs Nigel McGuinness - Unified

Disc 14
(14) vs SUWA - Anarchy In The UK
(28) vs Roderick Strong - Anarchy In The UK
(79) vs Nigel McGuinness - Epic Encounter II

Disc 15
(69) vs Colt Cabana - 2/3 Falls - Gut Check
(42) vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2

Disc 16
(29) vs Samoa Joe - Survival Of The Fittest 2006
(29) vs Austin Aries - Motor City Madness
(10) vs Salvatore Rinauro - Suffocation
(30) vs Samoe Joe - No DQ - Irressistable Forces

Disc 17
(28) vs Delirious - Honor Reclaims Boston
(27) w/ Jimmy Rave vs Samoa Joe & Nigel McGuinness - The Bitter End
(27) vs Samoa Joe - Steel Cage Match - Chicago Spectacular Night 1

Disc 18
(41) w/ Jimmy Rave, Jimmy Jacobs & SHINGO vs Delirious, Nigel McGuinness, Colt Cabana & BJ Whitmer - The Chicago Spectacular Night 2
(23) vs Jimmy Rave vs Nigel McGuinness vs Homicide - International Challenge
(54) vs Homicide - Final Battle 2006

Bonus FIP Discs

Disc 1
w/ Jimmy Rave vs Roderick Strong & Tony Mamaulauke - Strength In Numbers
(58) w/ Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, Adam Pearce & Jimmy Rave vs Roderick Strong, Sean Waltman, Tony Mamaluke, Sal Rinauro & Jerrelle Clark - Evening The Odds 2005

Disc 2
(21) vs Jerrelle Clark - Florida Rumble 2005
(26) vs Roderick Strong - Attack Of The Masked Flippers 2005
(26) w/ Austin Aries vs Roderick Strong & Jack Evans - New Years Classic 2006
(17) vs Jay Fury - Strong vs Evans
(11) vs Roderick Strong vs Homicide - Hell Freezes Over

Disc 3
(22) vs Matt Sydal - Year of the Dragon
(26) vs Sal Rinauro - Chasing The Dragon
(29) vs Colt Cabana - FIP Impact of Honor
(32) vs Colt Cabana - Heatstroke 06 Night 1

Disc 4
(31) w/ BJ Whitmer vs Homicide & Davey Richards - Heatstroke 06 Night 2
(20) w/ Cyber Kong vs Roderick Strong & Davey Richards - Fallout 2006
(27) vs Davey Richards - Southern Justice
(37) vs Roderick Strong - All or Nothing

Disc 5
(32) w/ Shingo, Shane Hagadorn, Davey Richards & Steve Madison vs Roderick Strong, Jay Briscoe & Mark Briscoe, Erick Stevens & Pelle Primeau - Evening The Odds 2006
(21) vs Davey Richards - Cage of Pain
(20) vs Erick Stevens - Florida Rumble 2006
(20) vs Robbie Brookside vs Martin Stone - FWA Frontiers of Honor II
(23) vs Kamala - LCW 09/30/2006



The brackets with numbers by each match represent the match length.




Obfuscation said:


> Set sounds unreal. Most of Danielson's match during his championship reign were. So many different types of matches vs different types of opponents. Majestic.
> 
> Nutty to think that comp doesn't even touch the Danielson 07, 08, & 09 work. The '09 work mostly comes from elsewhere except for some tags & TV matches vs Tyler Black, but the other two years - oh man. Especially '07 thanks to the absolutely FANTASTIC series vs Takeshi Morishima. You want to see brilliance realized upon every bout, no matter how long or short. Watch those. _(not you, specifically, SI, but anyone in this case.)_ Oh, and the most excellent Danielson vs Jacobs match from Unscripted II is in his '07 catalog. It's getting absurd now when you look at his matches on a show to show basis.


Haven't seen the Jacobs match but guessing that's the one you pimped to high heaven a couple of weeks back. Will make a bid to track it down eventually  .

Oh man, Manhattan Mayhem II, Man Up & Glory By Honor are all excellent. Not as huge a fan of the Final Battle '08 feud ender, though its very good in its own right. The Manhattan Mayhem match is stellar and has a great running theme of Danielson trying to stomach the Morishima onslaught and bide his time. The long running leg focus and strike reliance by Danielson keeps the structure and story tight to the action and the moment Morishima finally begins to wobble is beautiful.

Man Up for me is the best match they had. Great pace and work with Danielson again baiting and frustrating Morishima and looking to capitalise on any mistake by the champion. They manage to make Danielson look lethal and dangerous in every opening to the point that you finally begin to question whether Morishima can actually beat him. Then of course we get the absolute perfect character defining moment from Morishima and the beautiful conclusion to advance the feud and mark a great payoff to the legit eye injury Danielson suffered at Manhattan Mayhem II.

Glory By Honor is just a really well done angle advancer which slowly morphs into a great match. Opening is great babyface brutality with Danielson jumping Morishima and hitting the lunatic dive and rejoicing with the crowd. Such a great and inspiring visual. Then of course Morishima slowly begins to overpower Danielson & look indestructible and then just when you fear Danielson will again be robbed of justice he takes a shortcut and exacts brutal revenge on Morishima for the Man Up massacre.

Can't forget the best ROH match ever as well, Danielson/McGuinness 6th Anniversary Show. A rare but exemplary babyface/heel dynamic, wonderful Nigel performance and heel turn which had been building since Rising Above and the concussion suffered in the Aries match, Danielson being heroic and representing the ultimate hero and a brilliant conclusion with Nigel proving himself to be the most devious and calculating bastard on the roster. Great advancement from their '06 matches where Danielson was the clear heel and the '07 Driven match were both men split the crowd and worked it largely babyface/babyface.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

MITB IV Wrestlemania XXIV (2008) ****1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Which Morishima match is the one he works with the EYE PATCH?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Which Morishima match is the one he works with the EYE PATCH?


Man Up. He detaches the retina in like the first 5 minutes of Manhattan Mayhem, works for another 30 minutes without the sight in his left eye, then returns something crazy like 10-15 days for the return match. Absolutely insanely resilient and tenacious bastard is Bryan.

He separates his shoulder 10 minutes into a 2/3 falls 60 minute match vs Cabana as well and again wrestles the entire match, then works KENTA a month or so later and has his arm torn to shreads with stiff kicks and then delays surgery until dropping the belt in December to Homicide.

Amazes me whenever I see people giggle when people bring up Bryan as a strong and tough man. Just because he doesn't emit the badass image of someone like Austin or Finlay doesn't negate some of the insanely tough injuries he's battled through in matches and months to avoid sitting at home not wrestling.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I recently watched the KENTA match where they worked the injured shoulder. Crazy stuff. Tough bastard.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Its hard to watch at points since you can imagine even basic and fabricated strikes with minimal contact would be an absolute bitch to receive with a separated shoulder, let alone unprotected and ungodly stiff kicks right on point. Every shriek and scream from Danielson just hits you immediately.

I am thankful he seems to have escaped from the dangerous and often reckless ROH main event style largely unscatched. You only have to look at McGuinness' health problems (apparently a guy on a forum I sometimes read over interviewed Nigel and he shocked the interviewer with how little he could recall of his ROH Main Event run simply because of the number of concussions and head trauma he received taking those needless and idiotic bumps) to see how easily Danielson could have been a broken man. I cringe at the Driven sequence where he and Nigel run headfirst into each other repeatedly, with both drawing blood hardway before the finish. Just sickening punishment and it could have left him permanently damaged and broken though thankfully by all accounts his body has held up and he shows no signs of being the next casualty of wrestling dedicately for well over a decade.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Haven't seen the Jacobs match but guessing that's the one you pimped to high heaven a couple of weeks back. Will make a bid to track it down eventually  .
> 
> Oh man, Manhattan Mayhem II, Man Up & Glory By Honor are all excellent. Not as huge a fan of the Final Battle '08 feud ender, though its very good in its own right. The Manhattan Mayhem match is stellar and has a great running theme of Danielson trying to stomach the Morishima onslaught and bide his time. The long running leg focus and strike reliance by Danielson keeps the structure and story tight to the action and the moment Morishima finally begins to wobble is beautiful.
> 
> ...


Indeed it is. Watch it. Love it like how I love it. 

I haven't seen GBH in a little bit & the Rising Above match in even longer. I got to change that. Man Up did slightly trump Manhattan Mayhem II for me on the last watch. I was BLOWN away by the character work done at Man Up. It was more than the usual Morishima formula and it managed to excel on a higher level. _(at worst Morishima's matches during that time were good. Guy was on a fever pitch with his quality. Hard to rival it.)_ Danielson's legit eye injury added a whole new level. Coupled with Morishima's asshole tendencies to attack the eye. Wow wow wow @ it.

Danielson vs Nigel with the epic heel turn is your pick for best ROH match ever, eh? Interesting. You're getting me even more excited to watch more and more to find out which one is my pick. At this rate I think I'm still leaning towards Danielson vs KENTA. It could change, but my stars does that match blow me away each and every time. At the very least if I can form a top ten, then put them in order, I'll have something cooking. I need to watch a slew of broadway matches from the promotion. Specifically all from Danielson's reign. That will take some time of course, haha. I'm a tad bit embarrassed to say I never saw the one vs McGuinness yet. The only match of theirs I never saw. Oh, shoot. Unified. That is a front runner for the number one spot for me too. ALMOST certain a Danielson match will snag the spot for #1. Not Generico, Punker, or Jacobs like one may have assumed, ha. I'm looking to go year by year in quality then fomulate things at the end of it. It's a long process but will totally be worth it. Bought so many ROH shows recently that I'm having good luck on this road while maintaining with 2013 wrestling at the same time.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Finally got round to finishing Starrcade '88.

Bigelow/Windham is like a Thai stir fry. Very sweet and sour. Regardless of that, it was great stuff. The pacing took me out of it several times, and required me to rewatch the first portion of the match. But Windham going Flair mode to put over Bigelow, their ending exchange was the definition of fun. Rating would be, err, ***1/2

And Luger/Flair. Very rare you find a lengthy match that doesn't hamper your ocncentration, the urge to mess around with your nails etc, but this one didn't. And for that, I'll disregard Luger's lack of selling during spots, when he was jumping back up to the ring, and mounting the turnbuckles to pummel down on Flair. Classic stuff, despite me requiring a third viewing due to WMP crashing 10minutes through, and then VLC crashing after 10 minutes. Thinking ****1/2.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what are dbryan best non wwe matches ? im not gonna act I like a cool guy and say I have been following him since he first stepped on the indy scene cuz I didnt I have heard of one with Kenta


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Indeed it is. Watch it. Love it like how I love it.
> 
> I haven't seen GBH in a little bit & the Rising Above match in even longer. I got to change that. Man Up did slightly trump Manhattan Mayhem II for me on the last watch. I was BLOWN away by the character work done at Man Up. It was more than the usual Morishima formula and it managed to excel on a higher level. _(at worst Morishima's matches during that time were good. Guy was on a fever pitch with his quality. Hard to rival it.)_ Danielson's legit eye injury added a whole new level. Coupled with Morishima's asshole tendencies to attack the eye. Wow wow wow @ it.
> 
> Danielson vs Nigel with the epic heel turn is your pick for best ROH match ever, eh? Interesting. You're getting me even more excited to watch more and more to find out which one is my pick. At this rate I think I'm still leaning towards Danielson vs KENTA. It could change, but my stars does that match blow me away each and every time. At the very least if I can form a top ten, then put them in order, I'll have something cooking. I need to watch a slew of broadway matches from the promotion. Specifically all from Danielson's reign. That will take some time of course, haha. I'm a tad bit embarrassed to say I never saw the one vs McGuinness yet. The only match of theirs I never saw. Oh, shoot. Unified. That is a front runner for the number one spot for me too. ALMOST certain a Danielson match will snag the spot for #1. Not Generico, Punker, or Jacobs like one may have assumed, ha. I'm looking to go year by year in quality then fomulate things at the end of it. It's a long process but will totally be worth it. Bought so many ROH shows recently that I'm having good luck on this road while maintaining with 2013 wrestling at the same time.


Yeah Man Up was perfect. Embodied the heart and story of Manhattan Mayhem but shortened it to 13 minutes and the match effortlessly moved at a seamless pace with great transitions and counters that made Morishima look powerful yet vulnerable because of Danielson's tenacity and ability to counter at any moment.

Yup, current #1 match in ROH history for me. Has the flawless chemistry that became accustomed in their series of matches, but having a rare authentic protagonist and antagonist was beautiful and the match has amazing storytelling. Nigel agrees to the match when Danielson sportingly agrees he won't target the head of Nigel who is suffering from prior concussion issues. Nigel is still on the cusp of the heel turn with more and more fans shifting against him and slowly making up the majority, then a regulation and instinctive backdrop suplex by Danielson has Nigel screaming to the referee and walking out in disgust. Now Nigel is a clear heel and is forced to fight with honour and defend the belt like a true champion and you get a raucuous crowd baying for his blood. Nigel is maniacal and vicious in control and has his viciousness accentuated by Danielson's heroic babyface performance. Throw in a masterfully tense finishing stretch and the absolute most disgusting and sly counter by Nigel (you'll love the storytelling there as it ties into Danielson's feud with Morishima) and you have an amazing match. By far the best heel performance in an ROH ring, one of the best babyface performances and a clear story and character masterclass from both men. Its just layered in subtle yet intriguing storytelling that guides every aspect of the match.

Joe/Punk II, Danielson/Strong Vendetta, ROH/CZW Cage of Death, Aries/Joe Final Battle '04, Joe/Briscoe Steel Cage, Danielson/KENTA GBH V Night II, Danielson/Nigel Driven '07, Unified '06 & 6th Year Anniversary & Briscoes/Steenerico Boston Street Fight '07 off the top of my head would be my top 10 ROH matches.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

If I had the money right now I would certainly buy some ROH stuff right now. Thankfully I still have a lot of stuff from 07-09 to watch and some of it I haven't even seen yet.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*HHH 2000: Year of THE GAME* (part 3)

part 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/17992546-post11714.html
part 2: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18001722-post11728.html

Triple H, X-Pac & The Radicalz v Cactus Jack, The Rock, Rikishi & Too Cool - Raw (2/7/00)
Oh man this was fun. TV matches from 2000 really emphasize how much crowds suck nowadays. The crowds have been HOT for everything I've watched so far but even by those standards they were absolutely rabid here. Cody mentioned Rikishi and Benoit having good matches later in the year. I'm gonna have to seek those out. Their exchange in this was choice. German to Rikishi was badass. I think I'm becoming a Rikishi fan. Foley going after HHH on the outside even though Trips wasn't the legal man was also great. My only criticism is Foley trying to break up the pin at the end when he clearly wasn't supposed to but whatever, that's minor. Super fun Attitude Era tag.

Triple H v Kane - Smackdown (2/17/00)
Only went like 3 minutes before a DQ finish but it was short and sweet while it lasted. Their longer matches could be good.

Triple H, Big Show & X-Pac v Cactus Jack, The Rock & Kane - Raw (2/21/00)
Another fun, chaotic, fast paced Attitude tag. Enjoyed the Rock/Show exchanges, especially Rock needing three clotheslines to take the big man off his feet. Show dropped some knees at one point that I thought looked quite neat. Why doesn't he do those anymore? Not a whole lot to say about this other than it being all action and fun. Foley was probably the best guy in it, which makes sense seeing as he's the best worker of the six. I don't think HHH has been the star performer in any of the matches I've watched. Maybe the title win over Big Show, he contributed a lot to that. Yeah I'll say he was the better guy there. Doesn't matter though, he's been good in everything, just goes to show how great Foley is. And RIKISHI!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> what are dbryan best non wwe matches ? im not gonna act I like a cool guy and say I have been following him since he first stepped on the indy scene cuz I didnt I have heard of one with Kenta


Danielson/Low Ki JAPW '02
Danielson/Joe Midnight Express Reunion '04
Danielson/Gibson Glory By Honor IV '05
Danielson/Strong Vendetta '05
Danielson & Lethal vs Strong & Aries Tag Wars '06
Danielson/Strong Supercard of Honor '06
Danielson/McGuinness Weekend of Champions '06
Danielson/McGuinness Unified '06
Danielson/KENTA Glory By Honor V '06
Danielson/Joe Fight of the Century '06
Danielson/Homicide Final Battle '06
Danielson/McGuinness Driven '07
Danielson/KENTA Driven '07
Danielson/Morishima Manhattan Mayhem '07
Danielson/Morishima Man Up '07
Danielson/Morishima Glory By Honor VI '07
Danielson/McGuinness 6th Year Anniversary Show '08
Danielson/Castagnoli (Cesaro) Northern Navigation '08
Danielson/Aries Take No Prisoners '08
Danielson/Morishima Final Battle '08

I can't remember much of his '09 run tbh. There's a great Tyler Black (Seth Rollins) match featuring an insane turnbuckle spot (can't recall the show but maybe this spot will jog Cody's memory), Danielson & Black vs American Wolves gets praise but I'm not a big admirer of it although Danielson is comfortably the best guy in the match.

Danielson/Hero PWG BOLA 11/2/08 is the best PWG match I've seen Bryan in. Heard good things about Bryan/Generico from The 100th Show but never seen the match. Bryan in Japan is again unchartered territory. He has a supposedly very good match in NOAH vs Kenta from '08 but I never thought it hit the heights of their ROH matches. He had a run in New Japan but aside from a short and sweet match vs Koji Kanemoto I don't recall a truly great match. His comeback on the Indy scene after being released in '10 featured a great Eddie Kingston match in CHIKARA and I hear great things about his work at King Of Trios in '09 as part of Team Uppercut.



Saint Dick said:


> part 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/17992546-post11714.html
> part 2: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18001722-post11728.html
> 
> Triple H, X-Pac & The Radicalz v Cactus Jack, The Rock, Rikishi & Too Cool - Raw (2/7/00)
> Oh man this was fun. TV matches from 2000 really emphasize how much crowds suck nowadays. The crowds have been HOT for everything I've watched so far but even by those standards they were absolutely rabid here. Cody mentioned Rikishi and Benoit having good matches later in the year. I'm gonna have to seek those out. Their exchange in this was choice. German to Rikishi was badass. I think I'm becoming a Rikishi fan. Foley going after HHH on the outside even though Trips wasn't the legal man was also great. My only criticism is Foley trying to break up the pin at the end when he clearly wasn't supposed to but whatever, that's minor. Super fun Attitude Era tag.


Absolutely adore this match Saint Dick. Its currently on my top 100 matches (00-09 worldwide) I'm doing with a few people and it won't be dropping off my list. Sensational tag with a rabid crowd and everything is just timed and executed to perfection. Heels are loathed and hated, faces from Rock, Cactus to Too Cool are beloved, every sequence and exchange however brief continues to add to the quality and it has a relentless and addicting pace. Honestly belongs in the conversation as one of the best TV matches WWF/E has ever done imo. Its just amazing.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Danielson/Low Ki JAPW '02
> Danielson/Joe Midnight Express Reunion '04
> Danielson/Gibson Glory By Honor IV '05
> Danielson/Strong Vendetta '05
> ...


I believe the turnbuckle spot was in their match at New Horizons in '08. I'd add his match against McGuinness at Rising Above '08 to that list too. You really can't go wrong with Danielson vs. McGuinness. Their Unified match might be my favorite ROH match ever.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

New Horizons rings a bell but I couldn't recall which match of theirs it belonged to exactly (Y) . I recall thinking one of the Danielson/McGuinness matches which was less talked about was very impressive, but I think it might have been Best of the Best '07. Don't recall being a big advocate of the rest of their matches in comparison to their greatest successes. The Rising Above match I can truthfully recall little to no amount of.

More people need to watch Danielson/Lethal vs Strong/Aries from Tag Wars '06 though. Glorious tag match with Danielson being amazing as the despicable heel and some great booking to build Danielson/Strong III. Lethal actually looked really good in the match as well which surprised me as I've never been that fond of him from a pure in ring perspective. I recall Strong and Danielson being great as the babyface and heel respectively and Aries having a solid outing as well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Danielson/Low Ki JAPW '02
> Danielson/Joe Midnight Express Reunion '04
> Danielson/Gibson Glory By Honor IV '05
> Danielson/Strong Vendetta '05
> ...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Throw in the Low Ki match from PWG in 2008. I'm thinking that's their best match together.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I've heard great things about that match but don't recall ever seeing it tbh. If it surpasses the Submission match from '02 then it'll be a great match because I'm a huge advocate of the '02 match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would love to sit down one day and watch all those Danielson matches in order. Maybe after my last CPA exam I'll be able to.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

You'd be better getting a comp or downloading via a torrent site since I'm unsure on how many of those are available via streaming sites mate  .

Top 5 (no order after #1):

Danielson/McGuinness 6th Year Anniversary Show
Danielson/Strong Vendetta '05
Danielson/Morishima Man Up '07
Danielson w/Lethal vs Strong w/Aries Tag Wars '06
Danielson/KENTA Glory By Honor V Night II '06


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that's what I mean. Finding a comp (Seabs') with all those matches and just sitting down and making time to watch them. I've seen a handful at various times and never in order. Bits and pieces of feuds here and there. I need to fill the void.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

1. McGuinness 6YA
2. McGuinness Unified 
3. Morishima (whatever the first one was, Manhatten Mayhem?)
4. Strong Vendetta or McGuinness Driven
5. Joe hour draw (whenever in 2006)

Tentative and I'm not happy with that at all other than #1. I'm watching all of this again within the next (something). Definitely this year sometime.

Honestly, give me another watch and I could add the Sheamus match in there. Might seriously be a top three for him.


I really never loved the KENTA match. I thought it was great but not that great.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Seabs is as reliable as they come tbh pal. I'd assume there'd be a small shipping charge attached to the order since its International but he & Cal are the cheapest I've encountered and are as economically viable as it gets given the size of the comps they both possess.

Yeah one of the great aspects of ROH in their healm was their booking of long running feuds. Danielson/Strong, Danielson/Cabana, Danielson/Joe & Danielson/McGuinness were all great programs during Danielson's run and alongside the long term booking of Homicide getting a title shot at Final Battle alongside the famed ROH/CZW program that culminated in a bloody Cage of Death Match you had an incredible year. Short term defences against Delirious, Shelley & Corino were also very impressive especially the Delirious match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thanks Yeah1993 and woolcock, just like TLK I would love to just sit down watch as many of those as i could but there is an English exam waiting for me at 900 am tomorrow


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Here are the Bryan matches I have on my YT channel. I could add more if anybody wanted them.



Spoiler: links to matches



vs Strong I - This Means War
vs Nigel McGuinness - 6th Anniversary Show
vs Nigel vs Claudio vs Tyler Black - Death Before Dishonor 6
vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2
vs Nigel - Driven 2007
vs Samoa Joe - Midnight Express Reunion
vs Tyler Black - New Horizons
vs Aries - Take No Prisoners
vs Morishima - Final Battle 2008 (Fight Without Honor)
vs Shingo - DGUSA
vs Roderick Strong II - Vendetta
vs Roderick Strong III - Supercard of Honor
vs Nigel - Unified
vs Nigel - Rising Above 2008
vs Naruki Doi - DGUSA
vs Morishima - Manhattan Mayhem II (Danielson suffers broken retina in opening minutes
w/Roderick Strong vs MCMG - PWG DDT4 2009
w/Tyler Black vs Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards - Tag Wars 2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> 1. McGuinness 6YA
> 2. McGuinness Unified
> 3. Morishima (whatever the first one was, Manhatten Mayhem?)
> 4. Strong Vendetta or McGuinness Driven
> ...


Manhattan Mayhem is indeed correct and the Joe broadway is from Fight of the Century. Its hard to narrow down a top 5 from those matches tbh given the similar styles and hard to compare Danielson performances. I know Mike is a huge advocate of the FOTC match vs Joe as a defining moment in Danielson's reign (it would mark the final few months of his reign where he began to draw matches rather than win decisively, no doubt impacted by the serious shoulder injury) and when I watched it I loved the majority of it but didn't come out thinking it was a top 5 Danielson match from his peak run.

I'd have to rewatch the KENTA match but I think Danielson's herculean performance elevates it above a couple of other matches imo. It might be a top three performance from him and I just get hooked in every exchange and how the match progresses from a massacre, into a potential comeback and then finally peaking with Danielson throwing everything in his arsenal to escape with the belt. A rewatch could change things though.

Not sure if I'd have the Sheamus match as a top ten Danielson match (its close but the beauty of his best work for me is no match bar the 6YA match and a couple of others stands above the rest. There's a number of matches where viable arguments could be made for putting it ahead of others). I would have the Henry Steel Cage Match as a top ten Danielson match though, just for how complete and perfect a match and conclusion to the program it is. Might be Danielson's best babyface performance.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Heard good things about Bryan/Generico from The 100th Show but never seen the match.


Bryan faced Kenny Omega at PWG's 100 and it was fucking awesome. Lots of comedy but also lots of great wrestling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Bryan faced Kenny Omega at PWG's 100 and it was fucking awesome. Lots of comedy but also lots of great wrestling.


O than wasnt me I just quoted woolcock wrong but that good to know, im watching his match with KENTA now


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> Bryan faced Kenny Omega at PWG's 100 and it was fucking awesome. Lots of comedy but also lots of great wrestling.


Yeah I've just realised I was thinking of Giant Sized Annual #4. All I remember is Danielson was meant to face the PWG champion, but injury/dropout meant the card was re-arranged and Danielson wrestled Necro Butcher in the undercard and Generico (who I think was champion) worked a big tag match instead. Danielson then came out post match, basically declared they'd the scheduled title match he'd earnt and was promised there and then and they worked a great match in front of a rabid crowd who'd thought the match had fallen through.

Truth be told I actually want to track down Danielson/Necro now since this was circa '07 when Danielson was really working snug and violent and well Necro is Necro and will always add something to a wild and insane brawl.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The Danielson/Black match with the turnbuckle spot was indeed New Horizons 08. I actually watched that today ****1/4. Was a really good match and that turnbuckle spot was awesome.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Having a debate on which undertaker WM match was better with a friend. Taker/edge or taker/punk? I have it

Taker/Edge ****1/2
Taker/Punk ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/taker by a landslide edge/taker is a borefest for the first 20 minutes and then its start to be something


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Outside of HBK, edge featured the best counters possible on taker for taker matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Both Taker/Edge and Taker/Punk are two top 5 Taker Mania matches, but I gotta give it to Taker/Punk. Taker/Edge's beginning, while not "bad" like some would say, is what keeps it from me bumping it to ****1/2, while Taker/Punk comfortably sits there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah Man Up was perfect. Embodied the heart and story of Manhattan Mayhem but shortened it to 13 minutes and the match effortlessly moved at a seamless pace with great transitions and counters that made Morishima look powerful yet vulnerable because of Danielson's tenacity and ability to counter at any moment.
> 
> Yup, current #1 match in ROH history for me. Has the flawless chemistry that became accustomed in their series of matches, but having a rare authentic protagonist and antagonist was beautiful and the match has amazing storytelling. Nigel agrees to the match when Danielson sportingly agrees he won't target the head of Nigel who is suffering from prior concussion issues. Nigel is still on the cusp of the heel turn with more and more fans shifting against him and slowly making up the majority, then a regulation and instinctive backdrop suplex by Danielson has Nigel screaming to the referee and walking out in disgust. Now Nigel is a clear heel and is forced to fight with honour and defend the belt like a true champion and you get a raucuous crowd baying for his blood. Nigel is maniacal and vicious in control and has his viciousness accentuated by Danielson's heroic babyface performance. Throw in a masterfully tense finishing stretch and the absolute most disgusting and sly counter by Nigel (you'll love the storytelling there as it ties into Danielson's feud with Morishima) and you have an amazing match. By far the best heel performance in an ROH ring, one of the best babyface performances and a clear story and character masterclass from both men. Its just layered in subtle yet intriguing storytelling that guides every aspect of the match.
> 
> Joe/Punk II, Danielson/Strong Vendetta, ROH/CZW Cage of Death, Aries/Joe Final Battle '04, Joe/Briscoe Steel Cage, Danielson/KENTA GBH V Night II, Danielson/Nigel Driven '07, Unified '06 & 6th Year Anniversary & Briscoes/Steenerico Boston Street Fight '07 off the top of my head would be my top 10 ROH matches.


Fact it condenses their previous 20 minute match into about 13 minutes the second time around with ADDED depth to increase the heat/story more is what allows me to think it exceeds past MM II by a hair.

I know I adore the match. Even if I've only seen it twice and the last was quite a while ago. It was uploaded on youtube by ROH themselves so I can watch it right now if I wanted. Probably will.

I need to find that damn COD and watch it. Dying to do so. Oh and Danielson vs Necro & subsequently Generico from Giant Sized Annual #4 rules the world. Two of his best sub-11 minute matches he's ever had. Especially the Necro match. I remember being crushed when Danielson defeated Generico for the World Championship though. 

Top ten looks great. I know I'd certainly have Danielson vs Morishima Man Up & MM II, Danielson vs Strong Vendetta, Danielson vs KENTA, vs Nigel Unified, & probably Joe vs Kobashi make the cut. There is Joe vs Punk II which lurks about, not to mention my love for Danielson vs Jacobs is so high I really think it can break the barrier into this territory. I feel like there is a Generico or Tyler Black match lurking out that will make the cut for me too. Generico one will probably be the same as yours. Granted the first match vs Nigel is EXCELLENT. That's more of a top twenty pick at the end of the day I'd say. b/c Joe vs Jay Briscoe is amazing and demands its due too. Fudge, this is kind of hard. Top twenty seems easier just to give more matches credit and formulate a top ten out of it, lolz.



Yeah1993 said:


> Throw in the Low Ki match from PWG in 2008. I'm thinking that's their best match together.


(Y)

And it was the opener too. That wacky PWG.



bigbuxxx said:


> Here are the Bryan matches I have on my YT channel. I could add more if anybody wanted them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mark:

vs Aries at Take No Prisoners & vs Strong at This Means War are on the list.



bigbuxxx said:


> Bryan faced Kenny Omega at PWG's 100 and it was fucking awesome. Lots of comedy but also lots of great wrestling.


YES.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Kurt Angle's best match?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I want to say Royal Rumble '03 v Benoit but I haven't seen it in years and I don't know how it would hold up so I'll go with Summerslam '01 v Austin or No Way Out '06 v Taker. Leaning towards the Austin match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SON OF A BITCH, a Danielson discussion in the WWE thread and I'm not around to join in. Not cool, guys. I'm gonna throw out some other REALLY GOOD SHIT of his that I don't think has been mentioned so I can feel like I've contributed:

vs. YAMATO (DGUSA Untouchable 2010)
vs. Tyler Black (their 3 match series on HDNet)
vs. Roderick Strong (Danielson's Farewell on HDNet & Anarchy in the UK)



ATF said:


> I hope I'm not the only one who finds Kurt Angle pretty damn overrated, after all I've seen from him.


You're not. (Y)



Lastmanstanding1 said:


> What did you guys, think of No Mercy 2002?


Great ppv based solely on the HIAC & Tag Team Title match. I really don't remember anything else from the show (HHH vs. Kane & maybe a Cruiserweight Title match with Tajiri & Noble?) but when you have two matches that go **** 1/2+ in the same night, it's somethin special.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Kurt Angle's best match?


vs Steve Austin - SummerSlam 2001.

I wouldn't put up a stink to the match vs Mysterio from SummerSlam '02.

Corey, what if I told you I never saw the YAMATO match. Would that mean I have to watch asap? :hmm:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Danielson/KENTA NOAH2/1/1/06 great stuff ****1/4, really enjoyed it
on a funny side note Im watching it on youtube and Daniel bryan rapping with kane is a video recommended for me after watch this lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> vs Steve Austin - SummerSlam 2001.
> 
> I wouldn't put up a stink to the match vs Mysterio from SummerSlam '02.
> 
> Corey, what if I told you I never saw the YAMATO match. Would that mean I have to watch asap? :hmm:


I wouldn't say immediately, cause you'd be one lucky fuck if you EVER found it online (is anything DGUSA related every uploaded anywhere?) but yeah, it's a pretty damn great match. Submission exchanges from both men are superb, stiff as can be, & the finishing sequence is pretty awesome. I <3 Danielson's dives into the crowd so much.

**** 1/2 btw


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> vs Strong at This Means War are on the list.


I just realized this is only the last 15 minutes of a 37 minute match .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rumble 03 vs Benoit is angle's best match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I wouldn't say immediately, cause you'd be one lucky fuck if you EVER found it online (is anything DGUSA related every uploaded anywhere?) but yeah, it's a pretty damn great match. Submission exchanges from both men are superb, stiff as can be, & the finishing sequence is pretty awesome. I <3 Danielson's dives into the crowd so much.
> 
> **** 1/2 btw


Why do you think I'm so in the dark with quite a bit of DGUSA. It's oddly impossible to find for some reason. I'd watch it all if I had the chance. At least you got me a link to see Gargano vs Rave that one night. That match ruled.

I've seen YAMATO tear it up in tags. Nothing in singles yet. Heard he's grown leaps and bounds. Certainly working vs Danielson will only show that more. _(years ago, I know, but I haven't seen TOO many YAMATO matches)_



bigbuxxx said:


> I just realized this is only the last 15 minutes of a 37 minute match .


NO </3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Getting together reviews for the HBK/Jericho series from 2008. What a fucking brilliant program these put together. I actually didn't even know about their Judgment Day match, which I also need to check out. 

GAB and Unforgiven matches are done, just going to watch the ladder match again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GAB match is far too underrated imo. I know I'd take it over their match at Unforgiven. Which seems to be a bit of a minority opinion last I looked.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ I do also, I like the ladder match however im not as high on it as some, I still believe their wm 19 bout blows all their other matches out of the water imo


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Why do you think I'm so in the dark with quite a bit of DGUSA. It's oddly impossible to find for some reason. I'd watch it all if I had the chance. At least you got me a link to see Gargano vs Rave that one night. That match ruled.
> 
> I've seen YAMATO tear it up in tags. Nothing in singles yet. Heard he's grown leaps and bounds. Certainly working vs Danielson will only show that more. _(years ago, I know, but I haven't seen TOO many YAMATO matches)_


Gabe is so anti-piracy it's not even funny. He has people like scour the web and take down any uploaded matches or shows. They don't last very long, that's for sure. Glad you liked the Rave/Gargano match. (Y)

Did you ever see YAMATO wrestle briefly in ROH as a trainee? I was like, man this guy's a scrub, squashed by Claudio. Then all of a sudden he opens up the very first DGUSA show ever against BxB Hulk and tears the fucking house down. I was pretty shocked to say the least. REALLY good submission worker (casual fan would say a great technical wrestler) and I dig him a lot more since he cut his hair. He can be taken a lot more seriously, and I think you'd be pretty interested in seeing his match with Gargano where he lost the Freedom Gate strap. It's pretty darn good.



iwatchwrestling said:


> Getting together reviews for the HBK/Jericho series from 2008. What a fucking brilliant program these put together. I actually didn't even know about their Judgment Day match, which I also need to check out.
> 
> GAB and Unforgiven matches are done, just going to watch the ladder match again.


Minority opinion for me as well but I think their Judgment Day match is the best. The storytelling, psychology, facial expressions, & selling from both men is unreal. 2008 MOTY? Maybe, top 3 for sure.

Haven't seen their Unforgiven match yet though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ I do also, I like the ladder match however im not as high on it as some, I still believe their wm 19 bout blows all their other matches out of the water imo


WM match is worked so differently than the '08 matches (well, maybe not Judgment Day) that it's a bit hard for me to compare. It's all good in my book. I'm one who's found all of their matches to be something I like or love.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Gabe is so anti-piracy it's not even funny. He has people like scour the web and take down any uploaded matches or shows. They don't last very long, that's for sure. Glad you liked the Rave/Gargano match. (Y)
> 
> Did you ever see YAMATO wrestle briefly in ROH as a trainee? I was like, man this guy's a scrub, squashed by Claudio. Then all of a sudden he opens up the very first DGUSA show ever against BxB Hulk and tears the fucking house down. I was pretty shocked to say the least. REALLY good submission worker (casual fan would say a great technical wrestler) and I dig him a lot more since he cut his hair. He can be taken a lot more seriously, and I think you'd be pretty interested in seeing his match with Gargano where he lost the Freedom Gate strap. It's pretty darn good.


Dammit Gabe. I want to watch your promotion you putz. LET ME WATCH. Maybe I'll be tempted to buy after it. 8*D

Yep. I saw that. Claudio match was the first match I saw from him, haha. He worked some stuff in FIP too and that's where I was like "woah, he's pretty good." Won't lie when I say I have to certainly see more from him to form an opinion. Especially in singles.

Heard that Gargano match was the bees knees. _(homage to Johnny-boy himself.)_ Not surprised he had a great match vs BxB Hulk. Hulk is honestly like my favorite worker from the Dragon Gate crew. Love that guy. Masaaki Mochizuki won me over in no time too. I like a good veteran. Dragon Kid too. Idc what anyone says. He's got that wow factor every time. Oh damn. Forgot about my guy Akira Tozawa. I LOVE him too. I like a lot of the Dragon Gate roster, tbhayley. I'll just leave it at that.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> NO </3


I'll have the whole match up tomorrow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Dammit Gabe. I want to watch your promotion you putz. LET ME WATCH. Maybe I'll be tempted to buy after it. 8*D
> 
> Yep. I saw that. Claudio match was the first match I saw from him, haha. He worked some stuff in FIP too and that's where I was like "woah, he's pretty good." Won't lie when I say I have to certainly see more from him to form an opinion. Especially in singles.
> 
> Heard that Gargano match was the bees knees. _(homage to Johnny-boy himself.)_ Not surprised he had a great match vs BxB Hulk. Hulk is honestly like my favorite worker from the Dragon Gate crew. Love that guy. Masaaki Mochizuki won me over in no time too. I like a good veteran. Dragon Kid too. Idc what anyone says. He's got that wow factor every time. Oh damn. Forgot about my guy Akira Tozawa. I LOVE him too. I like a lot of the Dragon Gate roster, tbhayley. I'll just leave it at that.


That whole original Dragon Gate roster from a few years back is so fucking legit. Shingo is probably my favorite guy, but when you throw in CIMA, Yoshino, Doi, Kid, Hulk, Mochizuki, Yokosuka (still 50/50 on him), and eventually Tozawa then MY GOD what a roster you have assembled.

Do you have any money right now to spend? Cause all their shows from 2009-10 are only $12 right now and I'm willing to give you a list of ones that will be worth every penny of that.

-----------

To keep my post somewhat on topic, this IYH dvd is so hit or miss it's crazy. It's either a ****+ classic or it's average stuff that's pretty forgettable. Austin vs. Hunter was just thrown on here for name value, nothing special match wise.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> WM match is worked so differently than the '08 matches (well, maybe not Judgment Day) that it's a bit hard for me to compare. It's all good in my book. I'm one who's found all of their matches to be something I like or love.


yea I know what you mean I guess just in general their Wm 19 is my favorite of their head-head match ups


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels – Great American Bash 2008​*
Great story that started basically right after Wrestlemania and when Shawn had finished up his program with Batista during which he feigned a knee injury, and Jericho turned during a Highlight Reel segment and smashed HBK into the Jeritron. HBK cost Jericho the IC title at Night of Champions, which sets up the match at the Great American Bash. The final line of that epic video package during which HBK is talking about all that Jericho has accomplished but finishes it with “You’ll never be me” is just terrific. 

Now the match. (Watched on MySpace, BTW) What is this botched Figure Four that HBK locks in? That was just terrible. Jericho gains control with his dropkick from the second rope with the opponent on the apron. Always love that. Pretty back and forth match here, as Michaels sets up the superkick, Lance Cade appears holds him off, and we get a nice back and forth sequence before Shawn throws Jericho over the top rope onto Cade, then hits his big moonsault off the top rope onto both of them. As they’re getting back into the ring, Jericho swings an elbow around and busts Shawn open in a bad way. The look on Jericho’s face when he sees all that blood is pretty amazing. Almost a disbelief look, like, “I did that??”. He takes full control, until Michaels out of nowhere locks in the crossface. Talk about a crazy image. Shawn with the full-on crimson mask, raring back into the crossface is just incredible. Jericho counters by knocking Shawn into the rope and is back in control. This is a seriously brutal affair. Jericho’s got Shawn’s blood all in his hair and hands, and his arm too, and he’s holding Shawn’s arms down and hitting straight shots to that eye. I’m actually glad the referee stopped the match. Good enough way to keep the feud going. ***3/4

*Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2008​*Awesome video package. Both guys were in top form here, especially Jericho, who was at his heel peak in 2008. This was setup following Summerslam where HBK was set to announce his retirement, but Jericho punched Rebecca and here we are. Shawn in his black wife beater and jeans indicates that he means business. Michael Cole reading scripture to try and be epic failed a little bit. Only because it was Michael Cole reading scripture. OH AND LILLIAN GARCIA ANNOUNCED THIS AS AN “UNSUNCTIONED MATCH” Dat announcer fail.

Match starts right off. Shawn takes off his boot and just clobbers Jericho. I mark for the boot shots. As I’m watching, I can’t believe that JR is out there and not commentating. I get he wasn’t on the show at the time, but he would have gold calling this match. A bit of back and forth, but once Shawn hits his flying clothesline and does his kip up, he’s firmly in control, and he even holds back a superkick so he can inflict more punishment. Jericho, however, counters out of the crossface that Michaels has locked in and throws him into a steel chair that Jericho had setup in the corner. Another bit of back and forth before Jericho locks in the Walls of Jericho and holds it in for a while before Shawn pulls a fire extinguisher from under the ring and blows a bit in Jericho’s face. Lance Cade attempts a first interference, but Shawn fights him off for only a little bit. He comes back and it’s a full two on one. They setup Michaels’ arm in the chair like people do for a leg spot, but HBK fights off Cade and sends him into the ropes, knocking Jericho off the top. From here on out, it’s Shawn kicking ass with reckless abandon. He assaults Jericho with the chair, hits his elbow drop on both guys, who are stacked up on the announce table. DAMN – the shot of Shawn sitting against the ring after the elbow drop pretty much crying is just a sight to see. Michaels gets Jericho back into the ring and off comes his belt, and the whipping is on. Finally Shawn just unloads on Jericho with his belt wrapped around his fist and the referee stops the match but Shawn just fires and fires away. The finish was pretty much the GAB match, just reversed. Masterful storytelling, oh and Shawn nails the referee with a superkick to shut him up after the match. ****1/4

*Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels – No Mercy 2008​*
The third (well, fourth if you count the JD match, but that was before Jericho turned heel and before the stretcher match). Little back and forth early. Jericho, instead of his trademark dropkick with his opponent on the apron, makes it a springboard shoulder block and takes Shawn to the outside. He attempts to run Shawn into a setup ladder, but Shawn climbs hit and hits a cross body. Nice move. Don’t like how Cole says, “now Jericho going to drag that ladder into the ring”. He’s clearly “carrying” the ladder, not dragging it. Another Cole fail, but back to the match. WE KNOW YOU CAN’T WIN BY SUBMISSION IN A LADDER MATCH, COLE. Okay, last time I’ll mention Cole. Some nice moments with the ladder early on. Shawn counters the catapult attempt by climbing up the ladder before Jericho pushes the ladder over, foiling HBK’s attempt to retrieve the gold. Shawn counters Jericho’s fake bulldog attempt by running him into the ladder, with Jericho banging his knee on the ladder. This sets up Shawn doing some nice work on Jericho’s knee, before Y2J gets back into the match with a ladder shot to the face. But before this, Shawn locks his inverted Figure Four, and apparently its VINTAGE RIC FLAIR. Okay, THAT is the last commentary mention. Michaels throws the ladder on Jericho, whom he’s knocked to the outside and then sets him on up on the announce table, apparently setting up for a “high risk” move. Jericho, though, climbs the ladder and comes with a suplex, but it looked like Shawn turned into the cross body. Michael Cole did not confirm this. LOL at the fan who yelled, “Shawn Michaels, do ya thing, SON!” Shawn’s got the ladder set up in the corner while he’s on the top turnbuckle and Jericho climbs the ladder, seemingly looking for a superplex, but Michaels counters and pushes him straight back to the mat. This frees up Michaels to hit his elbow drop, with the ladder on Jericho. Shawn closes in for the superkick but Jericho catches him with a ladder shot right to the face as he comes in for the kick. Jericho then hits the lionsault with the ladder on top of Michaels. Jericho pins Shawn under the ladder, seemingly having him pinned as he climbs, but Shawn is able to tip the ladder with his foot, sending Jericho flying out of the ring, grasping his knee again after the big fall. This allows HBK to set up the ladder and it looks like he’s got a chance to grab the belt, but Jericho gets back and pushes the ladder over. This gives Jericho (on one leg) the chance to climb, but Michaels comes up the other side, both of them now face to face, trading shots. Michaels knocks Jericho over, with his leg held up. Enter Lance Cade interference. HBK attacks him and hits the superkick. Jericho is back up and the two men are fighting over the belt at the top. They both unhook and are playing tug of war with it for a bit, with Jericho getting one last shot in to retain his world title. I like the match, but not more than the Unsanctioned match. ****

I like all three matches a lot. The Great American Bash encounter was pretty much getting Jericho over as a sadistic heel (as if running Shawn into the Jeritron on Raw wasn’t enough). He focuses on the the eye and just beats the shit out of him. The Unsanctioned is my favorite of the three, not because it really technical, because it’s not. Some great spots in it but the storytelling is off the charts. The ladder match is really good too. One of the best feuds of the five years.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> I'll have the whole match up tomorrow.


(Y)



Jack Evans 187 said:


> That whole original Dragon Gate roster from a few years back is so fucking legit. Shingo is probably my favorite guy, but when you throw in CIMA, Yoshino, Doi, Kid, Hulk, Mochizuki, Yokosuka (still 50/50 on him), and eventually Tozawa then MY GOD what a roster you have assembled.
> 
> Do you have any money right now to spend? Cause all their shows from 2009-10 are only $12 right now and I'm willing to give you a list of ones that will be worth every penny of that.
> 
> ...


CIMA is hit or miss for me. I've had this blasphemous thought for a while. Anyone who works vs Danielson for 30 minutes & then for 24 and both matches manage to bore me isn't worth my time. I like so many more than him.

I don't, unfortunately. I spent all the loose change I had on ROH recently.

That's how every IYH PPV was. You had like one or two matches that was like "wow. great PPV match." and the rest being relatively garbage that you could see on RAW or Superstars weekly. Or sometimes nothing on the event was worth seeing. Think it was like that on...Great White North. Yeah, that show sucked iirc. Wait, think Smoking Guns vs Ramon/Kid was actually good.



redskins25 said:


> yea I know what you mean I guess just in general their Wm 19 is my favorite of their head-head match ups


I hear ya. Always will love the WM 19 match myself.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. Not a fan of Shawn's modified Figure Four, ay?  Wanna hear your thoughts on the Judgment Day match asap. It's soooooooooo damn good.

---------------

I generally like CIMA in most cases but he's never really done one particular thing that I would consider great. He's just kind of... decent all around? idk. If Ramon/Douglas is any indicator, Great White North was trash.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Finished off 2004.

I did in fact watch Eddie/Show again and yeah, I wasn't crazy, it's better than HHH/Jericho LMS. I definitely think it's a top ten SmackDown match, too. What's better? 1999 and 2000 don't have anything that impressive. There's a real good Austin/Benoit in 2000, but this is easily better. 2001 only has 5/31 Austin/Benoit, so that's one match. 2002 has nothing on level with it. I think in 2003 the 3 best WWE matches the whole year happened on SmackDown (Angle/Taker 9/3, Lesnar/Benoit 12/4 and Eddie & Tajiri/Team Angle 5/22) and I like Eddie/Show more than all of them. This is the best SD match of 2004 pretty easily. Rey/Eddie 3/18 is great but not as good. 2005 only has Rey/Eddie 6/23, which is obviously better. Eddie/Benoit from July isn't. 2006 is SD's GODYEAR, but I'd say only Rey/Orton 4/7 and Benoit/Finlay 5/5 are better. I'm pretty sure I'd have Eddie/Show over Benoit/Finlay 11/24, the best Finlay/Rey (3/24), the best Orton/Benoit (1/13), the best Rey/Henry (1/20) and Angle/Taker 3/3. So that's four SD matches I'd have over Eddie/Show. 2007 has the insanely great Finlay/Hardy which makes five. Finlay/Rey in November is a mayyyyyybe. Giving it the benefit of the doubt, that's six. What other really good SD is there from 07? Eddie/Show is better than Edge/Benoit, Finlay/Taker and Finlay/Kane (which I didn't adore anyway). Does 2008 have ANYTHING? Seems like it has a bunch of very good Matt Hardy stuff and then he and all of SD's better workers gets drafted to other brands. I haven't seen Rey/Morrison or Punk/Hardy (or if I did it was when it aired here), so I'll watch them. 2010 has McIntyre/Christian x2 and McIntyre/Hardy, but I like Eddie/Show more than all three. 2011 has nothing from memory other the Henry/Bryan cage, which I'll give another maybe/benefit of the doubt to. 2012 had some good shit but nothing great. I'll watch Del Rio/Show from this year sometime. So yeah, at this very moment, right now, I'd say at best there are 7 SD matches better than Eddie/Big Show, only five of which are 'definitely better'.

Rey Mysterio v. Jamie Noble (Velocity 5/1/04)
This has been my baby for years. I watched it for the first time three years ago and adored it. Honestly, though, I hadn't watched it since then, so I was kind of worried it wouldn't hold up. It did. Noble makes a bunch of things look rugged and unco-operative. I'm glad he got a chance to go all out in ROH because he showed signs of what he could truly so here. There were multiple spots in this I had never seen anywhere when I watched this three years ago, and to this day I have only seen in this match. Fujiwara armbar countered by standing and throwing a dude into a turnbuckle? Really? A snap-mare into the ring post? Uh holy shit? An over-the-top-rope sunset flip into a Northern Lights suplex? Are you fucking kidding me? Noble does a great job targeting the arm, and uses the twisty Dean Malenko thing to get it started. Shame that perhaps the bulk of the arm work was during a commercial, but we still got tons of cool shit. Noble chucking Rey into the turnbuckle so his arm/shoulder gets ruined was highlight. The dropkick while Rey was against the turnbuckles was really cool as well. I loved how Noble's strategy was seemingly staying on the arm no matter how much Rey would come back with offense. He would just go back to that arm with the thought that it had to work eventually, and he'd kept on it too long to bother using big chunks of offense on anything else. Rey's selling sucked. HA! He's Rey Mysterio. Rey throwing STIFF kicks to Noble while having his own arm hanging there was beautiful in a sort of disgusting way. Noble made the 619 look better than almost anybody in history has (maybe anybody), I think, and he really flung himself in a way that might some off as cartoony. So that was impressive. I love this match so much and I cannot leave it off. Best cruiserweight match since Rey/Eddie at Halloween Havoc.

Watched Eddie/JBL again. Duh it's amazing. My #2 right now (of ten matches) and it could finish top 20. WWE MOTY for 2004 by a long, long, long, long shot. 

Rey/Chavo GAB holds up as pretty fantastic. Rey attacking the arm was really cool and Chavo gradually selling it less and less after the work before seemingly yanking it during a small package was awesome. Chavo targets Rey's leg and really kills it. Stretches it around the ring post in a nasty way and finds great ways to counter shit into other shit, the latter shit in which he has Rey's leg tied up. Rey found some awesome counters as well, including a badass one from a Gory Stretch into a pin position. Rey kept the STIFF kicks coming and there would be so many times where he would dodge Chavo by jumping somewhere, land on the bad leg, and cripple himself so Chavo could get back to shredding him. Chavo giving Rey the Irish whip and Rey just collapsing was maybe my favourite part of the match. There was a lame 'both guys fall of the top rope spot' that was a like a bulldog or something, but otherwise this is really awesome. Could be my #100.


Randy Orton v. Chris Benoit (Raw 8/16/04)
Honestly during parts of this I thought it so great that I might actually rank it near Eddie/Show and Rey/Noble. I was actually getting worried that, come the end of the match, I'd have to decide between these matches (am I the lamest shithead ever or what?). Then the end of the match came and I got this stinking Evolution run-in which caused me to keep it off the list altogether. It wasn't a *horrible* finish, I guess, but I was just really disappointed that there was nothing better in their brain for this than Evolution distracting Benoit and Orton hitting an RKO. Orton won the match at SummerSlam clean, didn't he? I get Benoit has to look good, but he was completely fucking squashing Orton for the first ten minutes of this and Orton was turning face anyway. So yeah, about the squashing, it was nuts. Benoit knows how to squash dudes. This wasn't some WCW syndie squash either; this was the opening ten minutes of a match where he has to get his World Title back. I've mentioned I don't know how many times about how Benoit sells desperation with his moves and mannerisms, but here it was a new kind of desperation. Usually his desperation comes from working on the bottom, making sure his opponent's offense doesn't continue. Instead of that, here, we have him working on the top and making sure his opponent never gets on offense, period. Those chopppppps. He yells with each one, and Orton yells with each one. Orton also yells when Benoit gets to the outside and plants his knee on the steps. Benoit locks the sharpshooter in, and while Orton's selling sounded just the little bit goofy, I kind of bought it as him being in so much pain that he's making funny noises. He really put the shooter over; raking at his mouth to distract himself from the pain, and when Benoit let go he gave this 'oh my God' sigh of relief. He was eating such a shit-kicking that I was wondering how in hell he was going to actually get on offense credibly. Well a dropkick from the apron to the barricade did the trick. Orton targets Benoit's head/neck and really just does a great job while doing it. The headlock/chinlock/whatever looked brutal. Like Randy was seriously pushing his entire body weight on Benoit's, while tugging and squeezing the shit out of it. He sells the injured wheel throughout it as well, including a great moment where he yells 'goddamnit' when hitting a knee drop. Yeah, I didn't like the finish. Again, not horrible, but it made me go from 'possibly on the list great' to just 'great'. And we all know how 'JUST great' things suck. But no, I didn't think it was needed and seemed like something purely designed to get HHH back on top, since he spent a whole one PPV out of the main event. Still, this is pretty tremendous and on a good day I could see myself not as bothered by the ending.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I generally like CIMA in most cases but he's never really done one particular thing that I would consider great. He's just kind of... decent all around? idk. If Ramon/Douglas is any indicator, Great White North was trash.


I agree to that. He isn't bad, but isn't exactly a worker I find to be worthy of hoopla either. Decent all around fits. (Y) 

Oh lord I hate that IC championship match so much. Ramon legit had the MOTN and a dueling WMOTN candidate on the same PPV. Only thing worth seeing is the tag like I said. Nobody should waste their time with Diesel vs Smith. Sooooooooo bad. Goldust's debut was cool, b/c it is Goldust. Match was bleh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I apparently need to see this Eddie/Show match again cause I've seen it twice but on both times ended up saying 'good tv match but nothing special.' Silly me.

On the topic on 2011 Smackdown (cause you couldn't think of any), top 3 matches I would say are Edge/Kane LMS, Orton/Christian Steel Cage, & Orton/Cody Street Fight. Aside from Henry/Bryan of course. Doubt you'll like any of those more than that though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Randy Orton v. Chris Benoit (Raw 8/16/04)


I need to rewatch this one again. Remember it being pretty good and that RKO in the end was perfectly executed with Orton really getting some height with the jump. And yeah, he was squeezing Benoit's head real hard, he talked about it in an interview once and said that he always choked his opponents until their face would turn purple just to make it look good. Also Benoit yelling with each chop has always cracked me up. Even better whenever he'd yell doing a Snap Suplex.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hahaha. Not a fan of Shawn's modified Figure Four, ay?  Wanna hear your thoughts on the Judgment Day match asap. It's soooooooooo damn good.


I've seen him do the inverted Figure Four before, but in the GAB match, he just botched it completely. He got it right in the JD match, though. Except JR said it might be a "Native American deathlock". Native American? What happened to Indian deathlock? Whatever.

DAAAAAMN, that superkick to Jericho on the apron is nasty and he sells it brilliantly. Jericho's Codebreaker countering the second superkick attempt is also pretty nice, and what a sell from Michaels. Michaels countering the Walls attempt in the rollup for the win, I liked. 

GREAT match. It's definitely the best wrestling match that these guys had in 2008, but it was before things got really heated in their feud. I'd give it ****. That's my watered down review of the Judgment Day match. WM 19 is probably their best encounter, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Del Rio 8/19 > quite a few of the "talked about" matches from Smackdown in 2011.

Can't forget about Danielson vs Christian 8/26 & Henry vs Morrison 10/21 either.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Bryan vs Roderick - This Means War

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I've seen him do the inverted Figure Four before, but in the GAB match, he just botched it completely. He got it right in the JD match, though. Except JR said it might be a "Native American deathlock". Native American? What happened to Indian deathlock? Whatever.
> 
> DAAAAAMN, that superkick to Jericho on the apron is nasty and he sells it brilliantly. Jericho's Codebreaker countering the second superkick attempt is also pretty nice, and what a sell from Michaels. Michaels countering the Walls attempt in the rollup for the win, I liked.
> 
> GREAT match. It's definitely the best wrestling match that these guys had in 2008, but it was before things got really heated in their feud. I'd give it ****. That's my watered down review of the Judgment Day match. WM 19 is probably their best encounter, though.


Weaksauce review! Nah really, glad you liked the match, I just seem to dig it more than others. **** 1/2 for me. The mind games they play against each other & the role reversal in the early going are both brilliant



Obfuscation said:


> Danielson vs Del Rio 8/19 > quite a few of the "talked about" matches from Smackdown in 2011.
> 
> Can't forget about Danielson vs Christian 8/26 & Henry vs Morrison 10/21 either.


Yeah, I don't remember any of those.  Think Del Rio/Bryan is on the RAW/SD 2011 set though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

How do you rate the WM 19 match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Bryan vs Roderick - This Means War
> 
> Part 1
> Part 2
> Part 3


Brilliant. (Y)



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, I don't remember any of those.  Think Del Rio/Bryan is on the RAW/SD 2011 set though.


Watch 'em. You'll be finished in like about 30 minutes tops. I want to hear some thoughts. :hayley1


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> How do you rate the WM 19 match?


Me? Not quite sure, haven't seen it in YEARS. Somewhere in the ****+ range, but that's about as much insight as I can give it. 



Obfuscation said:


> Watch 'em. You'll be finished in like about 30 minutes tops. I want to hear some thoughts. :hayley1


I'll do it after I watch the Final Four match (holy shit why have I never seen this before?) Feelin like a late night of watchin wrasslin. :mark:

I'm still waiting on thoughts from Hardy/Callihan though. haha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOOD b/c I was going to ask you to give me the link again as I want to watch it right this instance.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> GOOD b/c I was going to ask you to give me the link again as I want to watch it right this instance.


http://www.livesportsvideo.com/goli...013638&s=mp4&adds=&m=guestfree&listgca=Circle

BOUT TIME. Hour and 30 minutes into the video.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callihan Death Machine vs the ICON 

:mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh just saw on Youtube where someone commented that Rock was a better wrestler than Cena. Don't know if they were talking about Rock in his prime or currently. 

Where's KingofKings so he can rage about this?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

link won't play the video.

FUCK


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Oh just saw on Youtube where someone commented that Rock was a better wrestler than Cena. Don't know if they were talking about Rock in his prime or currently.
> 
> *Where's KingofKings so he can rage about this?*



RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Seriously though, anybody who thinks Rock was EVER a better worker than Cena can go the fuck away into another dimension or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nobody should ever read Youtube comments. You guys know it's a cesspool for the egregious.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

Favorite Undertaker matches?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I believe youtube comments is where reason and intelligence go to die.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> link won't play the video.
> 
> FUCK


Works for me in Firefox & Internet Explorer. 

Does it say check back for live events or some shit like that? If so scroll down to a yellow box that says Event Archives and play the 2CW event part 2. That's what I'm trying to link you to.

http://www.livesportsvideo.com/goli...013638&s=mp4&adds=&m=guestfree&listgca=Circle


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It works :hb

btw what's the card? I'm lazy to look it up. Maybe I'll watch more following Callihan vs Hardy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Best of In Your House - Disc 2

**WWF Championship - No Holds Barred
*Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Diesel - ****
_In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies - 4/28/1996_

*WWF Championship
*Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Mankind - **** 3/4
_In Your House 10: Mind Games - 9/22/1996

_Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - ** 1/2
_In Your House 11: Buried Alive - 10/20/1996

_*Buried Alive Match
*The Undertaker vs. Mankind - *** 1/4
_In Your House 11: Buried Alive - 10/20/1996_

*Vacant WWF Championship Four Corners Elimination Match
*Bret Hart vs. Vader vs. The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - **** 1/4
_In Your House_ _13: Final Four - 2/16/1997_


- Michaels vs. Diesel is pretty damn entertaining to say the least. LOVED all the crazy shit Nash did; choking out the ref and stealing his belt, Jacknife through the table, stealing Vachon's fake leg, etc. Only minor quibble I have is that I wish Michaels would've sold that table spot just a tad bit longer, but that's about it. Incredibly fun match that raised the standards of unpredictability in the WWF.

- Everyone here knows Michaels/Mankind is a classic... right? There's just so much to love in Foley's character work and his ability to not have to sell the knee because he inflicts punishment on himself, then his late match frustration and antics are just amazing. With the ending I'd say it's like a low end **** 3/4, but I'd probably stick it high end **** 3/4 if Michaels had just won with the Superkick. Weird, I know.  They could've just done that, then Bearer runs in with the urn and attacks Shawn, then Taker's in the casket. BOOM. Don't need the Sid/Vader involvement.

- Austin/HHH is on here for name value... BUT, the "commentary" from JR is hilarious because his mic never works correctly and he gets so pissed about, blaming Vince over and over again while burying the tech guy. Funny stuff that overshadows a fairly average match up until the last few minutes. Really random interference from Mr. Perfect though.

- Buried Alive match is a fun brawl & Foley takes some hellacious bumps. The stip makes it somewhat hard to rate, but it's a fun spectacle for sure.

- I'm kicking myself so hard for never seeing the Final Four match, cause it is plain out AWESOME. The first 15 minutes is just nonstop, all over the place chaos with Vade being a fucking BOSS. Seriously, he gets his eye busted open and just decides to not sell anything and just slug it out with everyone. All four of these guys take a lot of punishment throughout the match (Vader & Bret especially) and it really took the Austin/Bret feud to another level. Bret's superplex on Vader was :mark:. I actually forgot about the fact that you could eliminate guys over the top rope as well until Austin's elimination, but it was actually an awesome stip because it made it feel like I was watching a Royal Rumble for the WWF Title. Crowd went NUTS when Vader was sent out, the camera was rockin. Absolutely awesome match.​


Obfuscation said:


> It works :hb
> 
> btw what's the card? I'm lazy to look it up. Maybe I'll watch more following Callihan vs Hardy.


Kevin Steen vs. John Morrison in the main event, check that one out too. Colin Delaney faces someone in a decent encounter. Garbage style, no selling Stairway To Hell match between two guys I've never heard of. Masada vs. Spike Dudley I skimmed through, looked disappointing & nothing like Spike's match with Mike Awesome. Colt Cabana vs. Slyk Wagner Brown. Jimmy Jacobs & Christina Von Erie vs.... A mixed tag I don't remember. haha


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

kanerules88 said:


> Favorite Undertaker matches?


My list is endless, but this is just off the top of my head:

His last six streak matches (Punk, HHH x2, HBK x2, Edge)
vs Flair at WM 18
vs Jeff Hardy (ladder match on Raw)
vs Kurt Angle at NWO 2006
vs Orton (WM, Summerslam and HIAC)
vs HBK (HIAC)
vs Brock Lesnar (HIAC)
Six man HIAC at Armageddon 2000 (yes that counts)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched all 3 Smackdown matches Cody pimped out. Wasn't _that_ impressed by any of the lot, tbh. Del Rio/Bryan was the best of the bunch, of course. Good armwork (as usual) from Del Rio and good selling from Bryan. Finish was sudden but made sense and kept Bryan's injury believable. High end *** 1/4 there. Bryan/Christian was a good tv match but standard stuff from the two. Nothing of much to note about. ** 3/4ish. Henry/Morrison is a 4 minute squash but a damn fun one. Gotta love Morrison gettin thrown around like he weighs nothing & that World's Strongest Slam was nice. (Y)

I'll still take the three I listed over them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HBK/Jericho is my favorite feud of all-time, and I cannot find a single flaw in anything they did.

WM X9 *****3/4*
RAW 03 ******
Judgment Day 08 *****1/4*
GAB 08 ******
Unforgiven 08 ******
No Mercy 08 ****** (HUGE mark for this match)*
RAW LMS ****1/2*

What a program!

Has anyone mentioned Danielson's matches with Briscoe, London, Marufuji, Gibson, and Shelley? All awesome matches from him that are often overlooked due to even better matches in his catalog.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I would wait till after I've watched WrestleWar to look at the series between *Flair & Steamboat '89* together in perspective, but fuck it, I'll forget what I am thinking by then.

Starting with *Chi-Town*. I enjoyed this tremendously. More than I remembered. I should of wrote some notes, boo. I enjoyed what I felt was a start where they tried to build up a feel off before blowing into the ending that it did, great speed and worked very well. When I sit forward during a match, then I've got a match I love. And that is all I remember. Never sleep 4 hours after being awake for 31 hours, then put yourself through three (including Luger/Flair) relatively long matches. *****3/4*

This one is fresher on my mind, *Clash of tha Champions*. I did not enjoy at least 20-30 minutes of the match. I appreciate the way they worked off each fall, was done better than any other 2/3 falls match I've seen in recent memory. But little enthusiasm for it. I didn't enjoy how they used the Figure Fours throughout. I don't appreciate the NWA use of it, but in this match, it felt like a glorified leghold to burn 3-4 minutes. It served no purose as the match built up to a conclusion. This match for me used to be a favourite from the series. I have it behind Chi-Town now, which I had a fair bit behind WrestleWar when I watched these a few years ago. However, regardless of the lack of connection and interest until the final fall, and the frustration I had towards the Figure Four use, it's still a absolutely tremendous match. A perfect Southern war between two of the top wrestlers of all time. But, not held in the same light for me. It's weird right, extremely critical of a match like this, and rating it like I do. It's a weird thing. Maybe it'll benefit from when being viewed alone. But it didn't hold up well following Chi-Town. *****1/2*


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

kanerules88 said:


> Favorite Undertaker matches?


Not necessarily my favourite matches, just the ones that stick out in my mind at the moment.

Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle, No Way Out 2006
Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-7
Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar, No Mercy 2003
Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 21
Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007
Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002
Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania 29

I have not watched any of his matches with Michaels in forever, and I was never all that high on them anyway. His match with Punk at Wrestlingmania was what got me interested in wrestling again after taking a break, so take that for what you will.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> HBK/Jericho is my favorite feud of all-time, and I cannot find a single flaw in anything they did.
> 
> WM X9 *****3/4*
> RAW 03 ******
> ...


Was No Mercy the ladder match? God that match is incredible.

I picked up the Best of IYH and it's quite a treat. Got the blu-ray if only for Shamrock/Michaels. The whole set really takes me back to when I was starting to get into pro wrestling. There's some really cool stuff on there . I also got the Streak on Blu-Ray because I really like the Orton match and the blu-ray was only 13 bucks. Then I realized why the hell did I buy blu ray if the match isn't even in high definition...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Watched all 3 Smackdown matches Cody pimped out. Wasn't _that_ impressed by any of the lot, tbh. Del Rio/Bryan was the best of the bunch, of course. Good armwork (as usual) from Del Rio and good selling from Bryan. Finish was sudden but made sense and kept Bryan's injury believable. High end *** 1/4 there. Bryan/Christian was a good tv match but standard stuff from the two. Nothing of much to note about. ** 3/4ish. Henry/Morrison is a 4 minute squash but a damn fun one. Gotta love Morrison gettin thrown around like he weighs nothing & that World's Strongest Slam was nice. (Y)
> 
> I'll still take the three I listed over them.


You still like the Kane vs Edge match? Wasn't sure if you watched it again or just speaking from memory. I take you enjoy enjoy your gimmicks I see. :hmm:

Although I really, really like Rhodes vs Orton Street Fight too. That was the one you mentioned that I was right along side you in praising.



Desecrated said:


> I would wait till after I've watched WrestleWar to look at the series between *Flair & Steamboat '89* together in perspective, but fuck it, I'll forget what I am thinking by then.
> 
> Starting with *Chi-Town*. I enjoyed this tremendously. More than I remembered. I should of wrote some notes, boo. I enjoyed what I felt was a start where they tried to build up a feel off before blowing into the ending that it did, great speed and worked very well. When I sit forward during a match, then I've got a match I love. And that is all I remember. Never sleep 4 hours after being awake for 31 hours, then put yourself through three (including Luger/Flair) relatively long matches. *****3/4*
> 
> This one is fresher on my mind, *Clash of tha Champions*. I did not enjoy at least 20-30 minutes of the match. I appreciate the way they worked off each fall, was done better than any other 2/3 falls match I've seen in recent memory. But little enthusiasm for it. I didn't enjoy how they used the Figure Fours throughout. I don't appreciate the NWA use of it, but in this match, it felt like a glorified leghold to burn 3-4 minutes. It served no purose as the match built up to a conclusion. This match for me used to be a favourite from the series. I have it behind Chi-Town now, which I had a fair bit behind WrestleWar when I watched these a few years ago. However, regardless of the lack of connection and interest until the final fall, and the frustration I had towards the Figure Four use, it's still a absolutely tremendous match. A perfect Southern war between two of the top wrestlers of all time. But, not held in the same light for me. It's weird right, extremely critical of a match like this, and rating it like I do. It's a weird thing. Maybe it'll benefit from when being viewed alone. But it didn't hold up well following Chi-Town. *****1/2*


Wow, swerved. The Clash match was the clear cut favorite for me. And a match I honestly do consider one of if not the best match I've seen in North America. Chi-Town Rumble is number two for me out of the trilogy with WrestleWar picking up the rear.


----------



## Cookie Monster (Jun 28, 2011)

*Ladder Match*
*WWF Intercontinental Championship*
Triple H vs. The Rock​
This is my favourite match that the two ever had and it's fitting that it's the match that made them both look like main event stars. Superb match in my opinion and it's one of my favourite ladder matches of all time, it's certainly a notch below Benoit/Jericho but it's definitely a personal favourite of mine.

I liked The Rock dominating early by aiming for Triple H's right leg, I thought HHH sold it beautifully through out the whole match and The Rock did well to keep going for it. Some of the fans in the match were great but thats Madison Square Garden for you, I'm sure I saw a few gangbangers in the crowd telling Rock to die. Hold up, wasn't The Rock face in this feud? Then I'm starting to think that the Nation were heel? But didn't Rock "turn heel" a few months later at Survivor Series or is there a small face turn I'm not remembering?

Triple H loves taking bumps into this ladder. I also like how stiff these two were in there earlier matches, definitely some animosity between the two, after hearing some of the stories you have for years a bout the two not liking eachother in the back, it sort of shows in there earlier matches, especially in the early IC matches on Raw when it was Rocky Maivia vs. Hunter Hurst Helmsley. 

Triple H to the top rope to stop Rock from climbing? I guess Ladder Matches bring out some things you thought you'd never see. Damn that ladder hit Triple H hard on the way down, sold it like a champ though. Rock was ruthless in this match, from taking out HHH's leg to whacking chairs against it when sandwiched between the ladder, thought it was a nice touch, the two have great chemistry together.

Brutal baseball slide to the ladder in to the face of The Rock, fuck that must of hurt like a mother fucker and Rock took it well. If I didn't know any better, it wouldn't surprise me if HHH meant that.

I loved The Rocks elbow on HHH who was lying on the ladder. I thought the crowd were starting to get behind Rock when they started marking for it, but It's just one of those moves that does get you out of your seat, I mean they just wanted to see finishers, it was right back to 'Rocky sucks' straight after. Then Triple H gets a big pop for hitting the pedigree a few moments later.

I don't understand what Henry was there to do, all he done all night was get beaten up by Chyna, throw magical dust into Triple H's eyes which made him gain some sort of power to climb the ladder and grab the belt and then he didn't even stop Chyna from getting in the ring to lowblow Rock.

Awesome reaction to Triple H climbing the ladder and grabbing the belt in what was a very very quick viewing. It seemed to fly by like that. Very enjoyable ladder match and in my view a match that showed both men that they were main event material, both were only young too, I think Rock was 26 and Triple H was 29 it said.

_******_​


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WW >>>>>> CTR > COTC for me


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Again, shocked.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Don't suppose you got any reviews for their 89 series? Would be interested in reading what you saw from CotC that put it above the other two.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm with Cody, thought Clash was better than the others. Clash > WW > CTR.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Desecrated said:


> Don't suppose you got any reviews for their 89 series? Would be interested in reading what you saw from CotC that put it above the other two.


I remember writing _very_ large reviews for those matches back when I was in my "OMG OLD SCHOOL WRESTLING" phase. It should be in one of the older threads. I'll dig it up for ya.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Don't suppose you got any reviews for their 89 series? Would be interested in reading what you saw from CotC that put it above the other two.


Shoot. Dunno if I've gone into detail on this place about what it is nearly worship about the 2/3 falls match. Wait, I may have something via a "5 Star Match" thread on this place. It wasn't too much, but it kind of sets up part or a condensed version of what I thought about the match. I'll go see if my memory isn't leading me along here.

If I can't find it, I can always slam through all three in a sitting and do a write up on em. Would be a fun way for me to get my thoughts out there on all three as a matter of fact.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Cookie Monster said:


> *Ladder Match*
> *WWF Intercontinental Championship*
> Triple H vs. The Rock​
> This is my favourite match that the two ever had and it's fitting that it's the match that made them both look like main event stars. Superb match in my opinion and it's one of my favourite ladder matches of all time, it's certainly a notch below Benoit/Jericho but it's definitely a personal favourite of mine.
> ...


I fucking love this match. Both men showed they were ready to step up to the main event level in this one. The crowd reaction certainly helped too. I loved how the fans got really into it and a large portion got behind Rocky too. There's a "Let's Go Rocky!" chant early on, then after the People's Elbow and Rock Bottom there's huge "Rocky!" chants. But the crowd don't turn on Helmsley either; they pop huge for the Pedigree and go nuts when he wins the match.

There was indeed a short face turn around this time. A week or two after the ladder match, suddenly Rock is coming out to huge pops seemingly out of nowhere. I just got done watching 1998 RAW and its so weird and organic. He's booed the RAW after Summerslam, then a week later they're in San Jose or something and the crowd go nuts for him. A few short weeks later and Rocky is the legit number TWO babyface in the company. He feuds with Vince leading to the Deadly Games Tournament and then turns heel to become Corportate Champ. What a great few months they were.

I've enjoyed all the Danielson talk on here, so I'm about to sit and start the 12-disc ROH set I got from Platt. Here's the match listing, can anyone throw some ratings on them bad boys? 

*Disc 1
Bryan Danielson vs Low Ki vs Christopher Daniels, Era of Honor Begins, 2/23/02
Bryan Danielson vs Paul London, The Epic Encounter, 4/12/03
Bryan Danielson vs AJ Styles, Main Event Spectacles, 11/1/03

Disc 2
Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries, Testing The Limit, 8/7/04
Bryan Danielson vs Alex Shelley, Glory By Honor III, 9/11/04

Disc 3
Bryan Danielson vs Samoa Joe, The Midnight Express Reunion, 10/2/04
Bryan Danielson vs Jushin "Thunder" Liger, Weekend of Thunder, Night 1, 11/5/04
Bryan Danielson vs Spanky, Best Of American Super Juniors Tournament, 4/2/05

Disc 4
Bryan Danielson vs James Gibson, Glory By Honor 4, 9/17/05
Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong, Vendetta, 11/5/05

Disc 5
Bryan Danielson vs AJ Styles, Dissension, 1/28/06
Bryan Danielson vs Alex Shelley, Arena Warfare, 3/11/06
Bryan Danielson vs Lance Storm, Better Than Our Best, 4/1/06

Disc 6
Bryan Danielson vs Homicide, Destiny, 6/3/06
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA vs Samoa Joe, In Your Face, 6/17/06
Bryan Danielson vs Colt Cabana, Chi Town Struggle, 6/24/06

Disc 7
Bryan Danielson vs Samoa Joe, Fight of the Century, 8/5/06
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness, Unified, 8/12/06

Disc 8
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA, Glory By Honor V, Night 2, 9/16/06
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness, Domination, 6/09/07
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA, Driven, 6/23/07

Disc 9
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima, Manhattan Mayhem II, 8/25/07
Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries, Glory By Honor VI, Night 1, 11/2/07
Bryan Danielson vs Jimmy Jacobs, Unscripted III, 12/1/07
Bryan Danielson vs Naomichi Marufuji, a New Level, 5/10/08

Disc 10
Bryan Danielson vs Tyler Black, New Horizons, 7/26/08
Bryan Danielson vs Yoshinobu Kanemaru, The Tokyo Summit, 9/14/08
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness, Rising Above 2008, 11/22/08

Disc 11
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima, Final Battle 2008, 12/27/08
Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black vs The American Wolves, Tag Title Classic, 4/18/09
**Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness, Glory By Honor VIII: The Final Countdown, 9/26/09*

I don't know what's on disc 12, Platt didn't list it for some reason!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

omg @ the Kanemaru match making the list. That one RULES.

I'd slap out stars for the lot of it, but alas it would be redundant by the 10th match. The lot is high. I'm talking ****+ with most on the snowflakes scale. _(Amazingly the Liger match is one of the "weaker" matches despite still being awesome. But I'm slightly biased from a dream match perspective.)_ You're bound to enjoy yourself with each and every disc. _(I'm a tad jealous_ 8*D)


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I haven't watched a huge amount of Danielson's ROH stuff, but what I remember from there is the match with Morishima, which is very nearly perfect (****3/4) and the Joe match from 2006, which is pretty damn good, too (****).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought Trips/Nash TLC 2011 was pretty good, Some would bash the sloppiness and inaccuracy of the movez and what not, but i thought it just added a personal layer of "heat" between the two. It was a brawl, guns all out spraying, fuck all that precise sniping, . ****3/4* for me.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Nash in 2011 was hilarious.

His "feud" with Triple H was hilarious.

The match at TLC was hilarious. Not in a good way.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I liked the Nash match better than the Punk match at NOC, If that says anything.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I haven't seen the Punk match in ages, but i do remember it being a clusterfuck of all that was wrong with WWE in 2011.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Punk should of gone over, but (once again) Trips's ego over clouding his final judgement. I genuinely want to see a WM match between the two, with Punk obviously being the winner.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2011 was an up and down year, for sure. Touch and go for an even better comment.

One week would be solid/good/etc. The next would be "what in the hell just happened?". Not all the time, but some of it. Remember the Road to WM sucking so much too.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

admiremyclone said:


> I don't know what's on disc 12, Platt didn't list it for some reason!


My bad I sent you an unfinished listing disc 11 & 12 should be 

Disc 11
Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima, Final Battle 2008, 12/27/08
Bryan Danielson & Tyler Black vs The American Wolves, Tag Title Classic, 4/18/09

Disc 12
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness, Glory By Honor VIII: The Final Countdown, 9/26/09
Bonus: ROH Top 5 Moments
Bonus: Highlight Video
Bonus: Sitdown Interview


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I just watched the Punk/Mysterio series from 2010. ***1/2 for WrestleMania, ***3/4 for Extreme Rules, **** for Over The Limit. Good shit. Punk getting pissed off because he got busted open is so great.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Oh just saw on Youtube where someone commented that Rock was a better wrestler than Cena. Don't know if they were talking about Rock in his prime or currently.
> 
> Where's KingofKings so he can rage about this?


Rock in his prime and Cena are neck and neck. Even Cena himself agrees. Saw an interview from him about that. I tend to say the actual man knows what hes talking about. And he wasn't just saying that because he is a big fan of Rock. I say think each guy posses a few things over each other in certain areas and all that, but its not like Rock is so much better than Cena, or vice versa as a whole. No need to take YOutube comments seriously anyway. Its nothing but die hard fans and trolls saying silly shit.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Rock in his prime and Cena are neck and neck. Even Cena himself agrees. Saw an interview from him about that. I tend to say the actual man knows what hes talking about. And he wasn't just saying that because he is a big fan of Rock. I say think each guy posses a few things over each other in certain areas and all that, but its not like Rock is so much better than Cena, or vice versa as a whole. No need to take YOutube comments seriously anyway. Its nothing but die hard fans and trolls saying silly shit.


Coming from the guy that had an array of offensiveness rush before him, when i called The Rock, The ROID. :lmao. Cena > Rock as a worker, It's a fact tbh.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Platt said:


> My bad I sent you an unfinished listing disc 11 & 12 should be
> 
> Disc 11
> Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima, Final Battle 2008, 12/27/08
> ...


Excellent, thanks! Just started the set and it's good stuff so far, thanks again for hooking me up.

Initial thoughts: I can't say I was too impressed with the first match on the set - Low Ki/Danielson/Daniels. But it was fun for what it was. I just finished the first fall in the Danielson/London 2 out of 3 Falls match and it's really good shit so far. I only know London from his WWE run and he was just some high flyer guy but here he's showing some great wrestling and some sound psychology. This bodes well for the rest of the matches!

Kevin Nash in 2011 was hilarious for the wrong reasons. He's far too old and nackered at this point, and those promos on RAW where he couldn't stop bringing up the pop he got at Royal Rumble were straight up bizarre. I honestly can't believe that the plan at one point was to have a Punk vs Nash match. That would've been a train wreck. Not that Nash vs Hunter was any better. I still LOL at DAT PEDIGREE BOTCH. Nash was just over-zealous haha.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, even when Rock was in his prime Cena clearly has him beat as a worker. Wouldn't think twice about it & I've never disliked Rock till he returned to the ring in 2011.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> You still like the Kane vs Edge match? Wasn't sure if you watched it again or just speaking from memory. I take you enjoy enjoy your gimmicks I see. :hmm:
> 
> Although I really, really like Rhodes vs Orton Street Fight too. That was the one you mentioned that I was right along side you in praising.


Nah, haven't seen Kane/Edge for a 2nd time yet. Orton/Cody is the only one of the three that I've seen twice, but I have all at *** 3/4. It's not that I enjoy gimmick matches more than a straight up one-on-one match, they just usually get more time and taken more as a big deal so the majority of the time they're better and/or more memorable in a sense of 'best tv matches'. 2011 RAW & SD was dominated by gimmick matches though if ya think about it. Miz/Morrison FCA is my TVMOTY, and that's one I've definitely seen more than once.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Nah, haven't seen Kane/Edge for a 2nd time yet. Orton/Cody is the only one of the three that I've seen twice, but I have all at *** 3/4. It's not that I enjoy gimmick matches more than a straight up one-on-one match, they just usually get more time and taken more as a big deal so the majority of the time they're better and/or more memorable in a sense of 'best tv matches'. 2011 RAW & SD was dominated by gimmick matches though. Miz/Morrison FCA is my TVMOTY, and that's one I've definitely seen more than once.


The street fight was the only one I legitimately felt captured the essence of the intended gimmick well. Last Man Standing was bollocks & the steel cage was just like every other Orton vs Christian match only stuck inside the confines of a cage. Why a cage too? Felt so weird to stick them in it just b/c. Combine that with the notion Christian didn't have a chance in winning and I'm lukewarm on it as a whole.

Falls Count Anywhere between Morrison & Miz is a blast. Dig that one a lot too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> The street fight was the only one I legitimately felt captured the essence of the intended gimmick well. Last Man Standing was bollocks & the steel cage was just like every other Orton vs Christian match only stuck inside the confines of a cage. Why a cage too? Felt so weird to stick them in it just b/c. Combine that with the notion Christian didn't have a chance in winning and I'm lukewarm on it as a whole.
> 
> Falls Count Anywhere between Morrison & Miz is a blast. Dig that one a lot too.


Fair enough. Christian was shat on repeatedly in that "feud" so we won't get into that. 

Did I skim over and miss some thoughts on Hardy/Callihan? haha. Or are you waiting to watch the whole show?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Speaking of the street fight stipulation, Which one did you prefer in the separate feuds in 2005 and 2007 of Edge/HBK?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> Speaking of the street fight stipulation, Which one did you prefer in the separate feuds in 2005 and 2007 of Edge/HBK?


Really not remembering too much from either tbh, but I believe the '05 version is on _Decade of Decadence _and I recall really liking that one. So that gets my vote. 

Not sure if I've ever seen the '07 one.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Currently watching Final Four since it was mentioned and it's some good shit.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Coming from the guy that had an array of offensiveness rush before him, when i called The Rock, The ROID. :lmao. Cena > Rock as a worker, It's a fact tbh.


It wasnt even a rush its a fact that it makes you look silly and immature. Its lame and dumb especially when it comes from posters who I actually think are good posters otherwise. 

And this Cena > Rock as a worker stuff, I was merely just stating that I agree with Cena's own thoughts that he always felt that he and Rock were neck and neck and extremely close in the ring. This came from the man himself.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

*Bryan Danielson vs AJ Styles, Main Event Spectacles, 11/1/03*

I'm only 5 minutes into this one and it's already amazing. Their first lock up looks like a struggle and it goes from the ring to the outside, all around the ring and back into the with both men trying to reverse holds and gain the upper hand. It looked and felt like an intense struggle, which is essentially what the first lock-up should be about.

Then it's hilarity as Bryan singles out someone in the crowd randomly and starts shouting "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WRESTLING?!?! SHUT YOUR MOUTH!" and then a couple of minutes later he stops again and looks at the person and says "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU" which gets a laugh and a cheer from the fans.

I'm already impressed at how Bryan makes something as simple as working over the arm really entertaining. And I'm pretty sure you can hear a clear cracking sound when he twists Styles' wrist at one point. Everyone hears it and Styles sells it beautifully.

Fantastic match so far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ We're gettin ROH reviews in here!!! Awesome match, btw. The lack of commentary makes it even better since you can hear every little sound inside the ring.



SpookshowTony said:


> Currently watching Final Four since it was mentioned and it's some good shit.


VADER

That quickly became one of my favorites after watching last night.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ROH needs more matches with the option for no commentary. Not liking the 3 way from the first ROH show should be a criminal offense.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

bigbuxxx said:


> ROH needs more matches with the option for no commentary. Not liking the 3 way from the first ROH show should be a criminal offense.


Haha, my apologies. I didn't HATE it, if that makes you feel better? I just felt it was three guys going at it and trying to pull out some sick-looking moves. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it just didn't grab me and pull me in. 
It could be partly because of the fact I'm not big on triple threat matches. I love a good singles match more than anything.

Are we allowed to post ROH reviews in here or do I have to go to the Other Wrestling section? It scares me over there, so unfamiliar!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

admiremyclone said:


> Haha, my apologies. I didn't HATE it, if that makes you feel better? I just felt it was three guys going at it and trying to pull out some sick-looking moves. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it just didn't grab me and pull me in.
> It could be partly because of the fact I'm not big on triple threat matches. I love a good singles match more than anything.
> 
> Are we allowed to post ROH reviews in here or do I have to go to the Other Wrestling section? It scares me over there, so unfamiliar!


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/529232-official-indy-dvd-thread.html

Don't worry, we don't bite.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> VADER
> 
> That quickly became one of my favorites after watching last night.


All kinds of* balamabam* awesomeness. 

Bret Hart/Vader/Undertaker/Stone Cold for the WWF Championship In Your House 13: Final Four (1997) ****1/2


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Here's a little review.

*Bryan Danielson vs AJ Styles - Main Event Spectacular, November 1st 2003*

I don't know anything about ROH, but Danielson is introduced as making his return so I'm guessing he was out for a while. Some of the fans are chanting "Welcome Back" which is nice.

The initial lock-up is well done as it instantly feels like a struggle. Both men are trying to establish the immediate advantage but neither can quite get there. They both keep trying to gain control as they spill to the outside and go all the way around the ring and then back into the ring before breaking it up, both men frustrated at not being able to gain control. It straight away made things feel intense and real and genuinely competitive.

Bryan shows focus early on, going to work on AJ's left arm. Is Bryan a heel in the match? Bryan seems cocky and arrogant here and he does it so well. Then it's LOL moment as he singles out an audience member who must've been heckling something at him. "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WRESTLING? SHUT YOUR MOUTH!" and everyone laughs. This match is already great and we're in the early stages still.

I liked how the match flowed by Bryan's arm control segment to AJ's control segment targeting Bryan's left knee. The match goes to the outside where Styles uses the steel barrier to damage Bryan's knee and bust it open. Back in the ring, Bryan tries to reverse the figure four but then can't capitalize on it and AJ wastes no time in getting right back on Bryan. It's hilarious again as Bryan taunts AJ to kick him harder, so AJ responds by kicking him in the head over and over, much to the delight of the fans. I love the intensity of both men. There's a little bit of showboating from Bryan at various stages but no showing off from Style who seems to be all business.

Other things that jumped out at me were Bryan's ridiculously good flying forearm from the second rope which looked and sounded nasty as hell. There's also a moment where Styles attempts a move from the top rope but Bryan catches him and reverses it into a wonderful throw/suplex. Bryan's moves look and sound painful but he exectes them so well.

Styles is no slouch during the match so I should throw some praise his way. Towards the end, he hits an unbelievable backwards somersault kick to Bryan's head which looks amazing. The impressive thing, however is that right up to the end it still looks like either men could get the win here because they've traded control numerous times and looked to be on the brink of victory but it's never turned into a spotfest. Both men remain smart throughout, often going back to the injured body part from earlier in the match. Ultimately, AJ Styles picks up the win but both men leave this one looking pretty great.

Any reservations I had about ROH being like so many other INDY promotions in that it's full of spot wrestling were put to bed here. Great psychology, great pacing, entertaining control segments by both guys and some impressive reversals too. *****1/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Danielson wasn't really a heel, he just pretty much always wrestled that way in that cocky 'I'm better than you' manner. See his 2006 World Title reign. 

Is that the match where AJ wins with a Styles Clash while Danielson still has him in an armbar or something like that?

Styles & Danielson also have another REALLY great match from the first All Star Extravaganza in '02. Check that one out too if you liked this one.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Danielson wasn't really a heel, he just pretty much always wrestled that way in that cocky 'I'm better than you' manner. See his 2006 World Title reign.
> 
> Is that the match where AJ wins with a Styles Clash while Danielson still has him in an armbar or something like that?
> 
> Styles & Danielson also have another REALLY great match from the first All Star Extravaganza in '02. Check that one out too if you liked this one.


AJ sets up for his finisher, Bryan reverses into an armbar. AJ breaks free by lifting Bryan up with the arm and sorta dropping him similar to his finishing move. Bryan kicks out at 2, AJ hits his finisher proper and gets the win.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Henry/Sheamus in a strap match at Extreme Rules

WHY?

Just let them fucking brawl over the arena.


----------



## Coffey (Dec 18, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Henry/Sheamus in a strap match at Extreme Rules
> 
> WHY?
> 
> Just let them fucking brawl over the arena.


Extreme Rules as a whole looks like an overflowing bucket of piss. I just shake my head at the people defending current WWE & that card. As long as people accept this trash, it will stay the status quo & nothing will ever improve. Big Show Vs. Orton & Ryback Vs. John Cena? Brock Vs. HHH for the third fucking time (when no one was asking for it the first time). Just no.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

So this the card i guess;

Cena/Ryback: Ryback will be fed to the champ
Trips/Lesnar: Eh, i don't care anymore. Lesnar has to win but i'm not expecting much from the match
Orton/Show: Honestly who cares? It doesn't matter. Orton i guess
Ladder: Hopefully this will be good but i just don't see it tbh, Ziggles will win
Sheamus/Henry: :lmao at this build. Fella will win, sadly

SHIELD are the only thing i'm looking forward to


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I like the Ryback - Cena LSM stipulation. Cena is one of the best workers in the company that can pull a great gimmick match so hopefully this LSM favours both Cena and Ryback.


----------



## Frank Sinatra (May 9, 2013)

I read through some of the pages and this thread is actually pretty good. Probably my favorite from the forum so far.

And Ever Wolf is that Daisy Marie in your signature?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Frank Sinatra said:


> I read through some of the pages and this thread is actually pretty good. Probably my favorite from the forum so far.
> 
> And Ever Wolf is that Daisy Marie in your signature?


Yeah it is 

and to stay on topic. 

Lesnar/Triple H - Summerslam; ******
Lesnar/Triple H - Wrestlemania; ***1/2*


----------



## Frank Sinatra (May 9, 2013)

:clap


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Randomly decided to watch Taker's Tombstone doc and the first match up is against Hogan. I'm honestly NOT in a Hogan mood, so should I skip it or is it mildly interesting?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

SpookshowTony said:


> Randomly decided to watch Taker's Tombstone doc and the first match up is against Hogan. I'm honestly NOT in a Hogan mood, so should I skip it or is it mildly interesting?


Mildly interesting, if for nothing else other than that it's interesting to hear a large portion of the Detroit crowd seemingly on Undertaker's side for the match.

Not that they boo Hogan or anything, but undertaker was a year into his WWE career but dude was over as hell.


----------



## Frank Sinatra (May 9, 2013)

Taker vs Hogan is quite decent for what it was. And it is Undertaker's first title win afterall.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Aw fuck it, I'll watch it. Thanks for the input guys.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

It's a shame that the Tombstone onto the steel chair is shown from a camera angle that makes it SO OBVIOUS that Hogan's head is utterly nowhere near the chair :lmao


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> It's a shame that the Tombstone onto the steel chair is shown from a camera angle that makes it SO OBVIOUS that Hogan's head is utterly nowhere near the chair :lmao



Same with Jake at WM.

Is there a Warrior match on Tombstone? I promised myself to never watch anymore of his matches after sitting through his bouts with Savage. Not a knock on Savage, as he was the diamond in both encounters, but it was a chore to watch those matches.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

SpookshowTony said:


> Same with Jake at WM.
> 
> Is there a Warrior match on Tombstone? I promised myself to never watch anymore of his matches after sitting through his bouts with Savage. Not a knock on Savage, as he was the diamond in both encounters, but it was a chore to watch those matches.


There's a body bag match against Warrior on the Undertaker Deadliest Matches set. Think it was from MSG sometime in 1991.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Body bag match? Shit, I'm interested.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

SpookshowTony said:


> Body bag match? Shit, I'm interested.


I'm fairly sure that Warrior gets beat :O


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Yeah it is
> 
> and to stay on topic.
> 
> ...


Summerslam - **** ( went up from ***3/4 during a recent rewatch)
WM - **3/4 ( mainly a tad higher due to Brock's control segment, but I just hated watching Trips tbh, just give Brick something else this summer FFS)


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

admiremyclone said:


> I'm fairly sure that Warrior gets beat :O


I'm a fan of his, but that sounds splendid. :hayden2


Undertaker vs Hulk Hogan for the WWF Championship Survivor Series (1991) **1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HAVE to check out BROCK-GAME II for like the fourth time before Extreme Rules. I LIKE it, but I need to LOVE it like I absolutely love the Summerslam match. GOD I need to watch that match again, I'd go out and say that it's Game's best babyface performance ever by far (especially in a face vs face scenario). 

I need to fucking watch the NYR 2005 Chamber but it's LONG as fuck.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingOfKings said:


> I need to fucking watch the NYR 2005 Chamber but it's LONG as fuck.


DO IT. I think the same when it comes to chambers including that one but then I turn it on and as soon as the action starts, I'm so into it, I don't want it to end.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Some ratings from this page-

Lesnar/HHH:
SS-***
WM29- *

NYR 05 EC- ****1/4

Taker/Hogan SVS 91- *3/4


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Come to think of it the NYR 05 chamber might be in my top 5 favorite matches of all time.


----------



## Frank Sinatra (May 9, 2013)

it is the best chamber match for sure.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When Triple H showed up on RAW the next night and cut that promo about being the best with that pair of sunglasses on, that big fucking bandage on his head, and showing off the World Heavyweight Championship like it was going to be his forever..... MARK THE FUCK OUT TIME FOR ME.

I have a tendency to go back and read old match predictions for PPVs that I'm rewatching, and nearly fucking EVERYBODY had Triple H penciled in to take back the World Title at Vengeance 2005, same with Wrestlemania XXII as well. CRAZY to think how things worked out and how Triple H just so happened to be the guy to put Benoit, Cena, and Batista over three years in a fucking row. Let the guy have his random Wrestlemania win against another part timer FFS, he's a WRESTLEMANIA JOBBER!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really like the inaugural chamber in 02, and I think there was a pretty good one @ NWO in 08 (I should know, I was there :side - maybe the Raw one? Idk, I remember both being decent, if only for the Batista/Taker finish in the SD one. Really don't remember.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

KingOfKings said:


> When Triple H showed up on RAW the next night and cut that promo about being the best with that pair of sunglasses on, that big fucking bandage on his head, and showing off the World Heavyweight Championship like it was going to be his forever..... MARK THE FUCK OUT TIME FOR ME.


Is that the one when he's like "blame it on politics, blame it on favourtism" etc and then states that he's the GOAT and whatnot? If so then fuck yeah I love that promo.

Gave the NYR 05 chamber *****1/2* on re-watch during my HHH/Benoit project. Superb match, still have to watch the original chamber again to see which I consider the GOAT.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, that one.

When heel Trips went all out BURY MODE I always fucking marked. I guess Corporate Game is just an ace up their sleeves alongside heel Cena just in case business starts to falter somewhere down the road. They'll just keep things on cruise control I guess for the time being.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Reading old archives is always fun for me. It's funny just how strong the HHH hate is. They always predicted that he'd win on every turn.

Wrestlemania XX - "Benoit is just the next guy in line to get buried"
Backlash the month after - "Benoit will lose by a screwjob but at least we can now call him a former World Champion"
Between then up until SummerSlam - "Benoit will eventually do his return job to HHH and drop the title to him"
Backlash 05 & Vengeance - "HHH is just winning back the title, he's not losing inside the cell"
Wrestlemania 22 - "He's been jobbing for a year, this is once again his time to be champion"

The funny part is, during the build up to WM22, they were actually rooting for him. They suddenly favored him after having jobbed a few times here and there to Batista and Flair. That's just how strong the Cena hate was.


----------



## Frank Sinatra (May 9, 2013)

Nobody can escape the shovel.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Henry/Sheamus in a strap match at Extreme Rules
> 
> WHY?
> 
> Just let them fucking brawl over the arena.


FUCK THAT. Hopes for that match just went south in a hurry. It'll probably go on 2nd and be totally forgettable... but who knows. 

--------

Brock/Trips Summerslam - *** (psychology and execution is great, but it's so damn repetitive and doesn't evolve into anything besides kimuras, knees to the gut, then finishers. dead crowd doesn't help)

Brock/Trips Wrestlemania - **** (really loved this in the 2nd watch. awesome brawl, love the HBK & Heyman involvement, & Trips basically having to KILL Lesnar to win)

NYR '05 Chamber - **** 1/4 (fucking great match with some amazing storytelling & an awesome performance from Benoit. who knows, could even go higher on a future watch but right now it's my #2 Chamber behind the original classic)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, so the Chamber match was fucking awesome AGAIN.

I have it at ***** 1/2* and the greatest chamber ever by quite a margin. I'm not really a HUGE fan of the original chamber match but I acknowledge it as being quite good at **** 3/4*. Heading into Unforgiven 2005 (just had to go back and watch NYR as I completely forgot of it's existence for some reason) it's my #2 MOTY behind the obvious HHH vs Batista.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*NYR 05 Chamber - ****3/4* and GOAT chamber match imo.

My only complaint is the lengthy finishing sequence. Everything else is perfect.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Some more SD gems from 2011
D bryan vs sin cara (hunico)
Christan vs Del Rio cage
punk vs christian i think was decent don't remember that well

I remember someone a couple of pages back idk who said it that since the first ever one, has summerslam been as consistent or a better event than mania? I think its debatable I have to go back I look some matches up but what do you guys think ?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Miz/Morrison FCA, Raw Jan 3rd
Mysterio/Del Rio, SD Jan 7th
Bryan/Miz, Raw Feb 14th
Orton/Christian, SD May 6th

Are all great TV matches worth checking out from 2011. On the PPV side I'd say that Rhodes/Mysterio from Mania 27 is definitely worth checking out too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

punk/ziggler nov 
miz/cena raw after otl
rey/punk/del rio raw
the orton/ziggler series


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Randy Orton was such an awesome worker in 2011. Had great matches with Punk, Christian, Cody Rhodes, Ziggler and I think there was even a good match with Sheamus before MITB.

Recently rewatched the Christian series and the Rhodes street fight and they still hold up pretty well. Gonna check out the other two Punk matches from Raw in UK and Extreme Rules and the Henry matches too.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> NYR '05 Chamber - **** 1/4 (fucking great match with some amazing storytelling & an awesome performance from Benoit. who knows, could even go higher on a future watch but right now it's my #2 Chamber behind the original classic)


Just Benoit? lol. He was no doubt great but I think everybody did a great job. One of Orton's better performances as a face and Batista was a wrecking machine.

I give that match ★★★★¾ like Starbuck. Way too awesome!


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Wow, they went from '91, showed brief a clip of Taker's feud with Jake The Snake, and it's now the '94 Casket match with Yokozuna. Okay.

By the way...

























Booger Red :taker


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Just Benoit? lol. He was no doubt great but I think everybody did a great job. One of Orton's better performances as a face and Batista was a wrecking machine.
> 
> I give that match ★★★★¾ like Starbuck. Way too awesome!


Wasn't a knock on anyone else, I just only remembered Benoit's performance.  Been a while since I've seen the match, last view was when I watched Satan's Prison in its entirety. Amazingly that wasn't as exhausting as I thought...

Orton was a serious candidate for WOTY in 2011. He may just be #1 but you gotta consider Punk to be the frontrunner based on his work with Cena & the title reigns.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would actually take Orton over punk as WOTY for 2011, its pretty damn close though


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk on the mic in 2011 easily puts him ahead of Orton for WOTY discussion. Orton was good against Christian and Henry - don't recall much else from that year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Punk on the mic in 2011 easily puts him ahead of Orton for WOTY discussion. Orton was good against Christian and Henry - don't recall much else from that year.


CODY RHODES



Good stuff with Punk & Sheamus too.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

I remember seeing this Casket match. The "chokeslam" Taker does is just Yokozuna falling back. Got a huge laugh out of that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I LOVE the Rumble Casket match between Taker and Yoko. It's not high on the starz scale but it's so much legit fun from bell to bell, and then after the bell. haha. Total slugfest and the postmatch shit with Taker absolutely amazed me as a child. Still think it's cool as hell to this day.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

^^Wonderful period (at least to me) to be a part of wrestling.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

admiremyclone said:


> I fucking love this match. Both men showed they were ready to step up to the main event level in this one. The crowd reaction certainly helped too. I loved how the fans got really into it and a large portion got behind Rocky too. There's a "Let's Go Rocky!" chant early on, then after the People's Elbow and Rock Bottom there's huge "Rocky!" chants. But the crowd don't turn on Helmsley either; they pop huge for the Pedigree and go nuts when he wins the match.
> 
> There was indeed a short face turn around this time. A week or two after the ladder match, suddenly Rock is coming out to huge pops seemingly out of nowhere. I just got done watching 1998 RAW and its so weird and organic. He's booed the RAW after Summerslam, then a week later they're in San Jose or something and the crowd go nuts for him. A few short weeks later and Rocky is the legit number TWO babyface in the company. He feuds with Vince leading to the Deadly Games Tournament and then turns heel to become Corportate Champ. What a great few months they were.
> 
> ...



Only seen these.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Edge v John Cena - Unforgiven '06*
Wanted to watch this again since it's been talked about a lot recently. I remember liking it back when it happened but that was so long ago. Goes to show how much my tastes and views have changed since then. I didn't like it. Not at all. It's just a bunch of shitty, nonsensical, contrived spots with horrible psychology. I didn't enjoy any of the spots. The FU through the two tables made for a cool visual but the laughably bad set up for it ruined it. Cena FUing a ladder onto Edge was also laughable. I guess the spear from one ladder to the other was alright but it didn't look that good. The powerbomb botch was awful and the match just didn't flow well. What was the point of Cena trapping Edge in the STFU between a ladder for a decent amount of time when it had no discernible long term effect and didn't even lead to Cena attempting to climb the ladder? At one point Edge took a chair out of a ref's hand. Why the fuck was a ref holding a chair? Speaking of chairs, Cena delivered one of the worst chair shots I've ever seen. No impact whatsoever. Edge wasn't good in this. Cena wasn't good. Bad, BAD match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm in the same boat with you on that one. Used to think it was a really good match, but in retrospect I think it gets overrated due to the final spot. Nothing else noteworthy in the match, other than the negatives.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2011 was just an awesome year for the WWE in general. Probably my favorite since 2004. Some other television gems:

6-on-6 Tag *10/3*
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Wade Barrett *11/25*
Randy Orton vs. Dolph Ziggler *10/28*
The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan *2/14*
CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio *11/28*
Rey Mysterio vs. Mark Henry *4/29*
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus *3/14*
Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Zack Ryder vs. Dolph Ziggler *12/12*
CM Punk vs. Randy Orton *4/18*
Randy Orton vs. David Otunga *12/29 (WHAT A CARRYJOB!)*
CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio *3/25*
Christian vs. Sheamus vs. Mark Henry *5/27*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Orton was a serious candidate for WOTY in 2011. He may just be #1 but you gotta consider Punk to be the frontrunner based on his work with Cena & the title reigns.


Orton wins it for me with ease. Punk might have been more entertaining on the mic but fuck promos. 

Punk had some great matches but Orton was more consistent. Didn't really care for Punk's matches other than the Orton series and MITB + Raw in Edmonton against Cena.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

In love with the Elimination Chamber from New Year's Revolution '05. Immense match. Star power was off the charts with Triple H vs. Batista vs. Orton vs. Jericho vs. Benoit vs. Edge, with Michaels as the special guest referee. Just feels like a dream match come true. And the match delivered big time with great storytelling and very great performances, everything about the ring action just clicked. ★★★★3/4

Massive fan of the Elimination Chamber from Survivor Series '02 too. Legit classic. Strong line-up with Triple H, Michaels, Jericho, Kane, RVD and Booker T. MSG atmosphere is nothing short of incredible, and the match itself is really exciting. And the ending holds a very special place in my heart. ★★★★3/4

Having trouble deciding which one's my favorite...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I love Kane in that '02 Chamber, probably still my favorite one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Final stretch with HHH, Jericho and HBK bored the absolute SHIT out of me. Plus Booker T sucks. RVD too. Not as high on the original EC as I used to be. Think NYR 05 shatters it. Prefer like, the Raw 08 and something 09 chambers to it too.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Punk on the mic in 2011 easily puts him ahead of Orton for WOTY discussion. Orton was good against Christian and Henry - don't recall much else from that year.


Working a mic has nothing to do with _wrestling_. I, too, have Orton as 2011 WOTY, and him vs Christian as Match Series of the year. However Punk takes Superstar of the year and feud of the year vs WWE. Orton vs Rhodes is one of my favourite SD matches, also.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well, I was basing it on what WWE would consider their "WOTY" category, which, as you stated, would be synonymous to "Superstar of the Year."

Change of topic: I see people throwing Orton/Cesaro from Main Event around in the MOTYC thread. Was it that good?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

NYR '05 and SD EC '11 are the GOAT chambers if you ask me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Whoa, Henry/Sheamus is a strap match? That could seriously be even better. If Henry doesn't waste time with bearhugs he could think of a bunch of creative ways to use the strap. He's essentially Big Black Vader (that isn't as good as Vader, obv) and Sheamus can kind of work like Sting, and Sting v. Vader strap match is an all time classic and the greatest US gimmick match of the 90s other than Hart/Austin at Mania. 

In truth this could go horribly wrong and I'm obviously not expecting anything on LEVEL with Sting/Vader, but I don't see a reason this should be anything less than good.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

All this chamber talk has made me put in the DVD and I just finished summerslam 03 chamber match..... Holy crap this one was awful. 

The WOAT chamber match!??


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Not the worst but not particularly good.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I don't think the SS03 chamber is bad at all. It has some neat moments (mainly Goldberg breaking shit), and the ending is...less than desirable (probably the only time I've ever wanted Goldberg to win a match), but it's still decent enough. It's better than the XTREME chamber from December to Dismember.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SS03 Chamber... might be the worst. I'd have to think on that.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Summerslam chamber was too short. However, That may be a good thing considering how much Goldberg excels in short squash matches. The 1st ever chamber drags on for far too long and has so many tedious moments, At this time, I might have the Summerslam 2003 chamber over the Survivor Series 2002 one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2003 may have been bad, but I don't think it is as bad as any of the 2006 Chamber matches. Oh my goodness just imagine of Smackdown had a chamber match that year (Orton, Mysterio, Undertaker, Angle, Henry, Finlay)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@ TLK orton/cesaro was nothing special, Cesaro gets decent offense in and then RKO the end *** for me kofi/Cesaro is much better and I have that at ***1/2 and cody/orton from a couple weeks ago was better also


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> SS03 Chamber... might be the worst. I'd have to think on that.


Summerslam isn't the worst. That honor goes to December to Dismember, with NYR 2006 not far behind. 

NYR 2005 is the best, but the Raw Chamber from 2008 gives it a good run. Love that match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think Punk EASILY MAULS Randy Orton for WWE WOTY in 2011. I say this because despite having a nice selection of matches that year I don't think he had very many matches where HE HIMSELF stood out and was the dominant worker. The Christian matches? More of a nod to Christian. Same goes with the Punk matches and the Henry matches if you ask me. I LOVED Orton's work with Rhodes but I felt that Orton fell flat a few times during 2011 (BARRETT FEUD).

Punk gets my nod for 2012 as well. Danielson simply doesn't get enough time to shine despite being the superior worker to Punk.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Summerslam isn't the worst. That honor goes to December to Dismember, with NYR 2006 not far behind.
> 
> NYR 2005 is the best, but the Raw Chamber from 2008 gives it a good run. Love that match.


SS might be. Those two chambers mentioned are what keep me from saying it's definitely the worst. Still might put it below them. Have to re-watch them.

As far as best chamber, I'll stick with the original despite that putting me in the minority apparently on here. NYR 05 after that. Here are ratings for top 7 chamber matches:

1) SVS 02- ****1/4
2) NYR 05- ****1/4
3) NWO 09 World Title- ****
4) EC 11 World Title- ****
5) EC 10 World Title- ***3/4
6) NWO 09 WWE Title- ***3/4

WOTY 2011 and 2012 goes to Punk. 



> I think Punk EASILY MAULS Randy Orton for WWE WOTY in 2011. I say this because despite having a nice selection of matches that year I don't think he had very many matches where HE HIMSELF stood out and was the dominant worker. The Christian matches? More of a nod to Christian. Same goes with the Punk matches and the Henry matches if you ask me. I LOVED Orton's work with Rhodes but I felt that Orton fell flat a few times during 2011 (BARRETT FEUD).


Barrett and Orton had some above average/good matches during their feud. The first SD one, the TLC, and the one where Barrett sends Orton down the stairs (might've been early 2012) were all decent at the least. Barrett/Orton actually have decent matches when you look at them individually (outside of their 2010 stuff)... but the problem is that's impossible to do considering they've had about a dozen matches in the time-span of 7 months... and I'm pretty sure that's not an exaggeration. I might even be selling the number short.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd take Punk over Orton in 2011 easily. I'd take Henry over both (SHOCK~). I think if I were line up the MOTYs for WWE in 2011, it'd be Punk/Cena MITB and then three or four Henry matches. Punk post-SummerSlam did little for me. I liked the NOC HHH match somewhat, but everything else involving HHH was worhtless. Del Rio match at Survivor Series was average (did have a good house show match, though). TLC 3-way was meh. I only really liked the Ziggler match on Raw in November. Wait, was the really good Punk/Cena on Raw in August after SummerSlam?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed, 8/23/11 I do believe (have it written down but too lazy to check).

Henry has been a fucking BEAST for a while now and is just behind Brock in my "His music hits so naturally shit is gonna get FUCKED UP" rankings (okay, so I don't have an official list or anything SMH). I REALLY fucking wish they had to do Henry-Danielson at Mania and given it some time as I believe it could have been one of the greatest matches ever much like the cage match between the two is one of the best of it's kind. On ProfightDB at the moment and I'm seeing all of these matches from Henry in 2011 that I seriously feel like watching; Vs Morrison, & a whole bunch of squashes against the likes of Khali, Kozlov, etc that would be amusing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mark's output that year was really nuts. Everyone knows the Big Show, Sheamus, Orton PPV matches and the Bryan trilogy, but he had a ton of Orton matches on TV too that were good. The Sheamus re-match from SummerSlam is pretty much as good as the PPV one. He had a house show match with Show, the awesome TV match with Rey which was his first match as a heel that year I think, the also awesome sub-squashes with Morrison and Ryder, a Christian SmackDown match that makes you want a long PPV match between the two, a bunch of tags where he was the best guy in the match. I have a Henry/punk match from 2011 that I haven't watched yet. AWSHEEIT. Man oh man do I miss Henry on top.

----

So I'm putting together my worldwide top 100 of the 2000s list and I'm nearly done with WWE, and, well, wow, I have some rankings that make even me surprised. Might post my top 15-20 WWE matches of the 2000s within the next few days. You'll think I'm more of an oddball than you already do.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm SUPER fucking pumped for Henry-Sheamus as in.... More than any other match on the card BY FAR even though two of my three all time favorites are going to be in a steel cage in the main event. I'm hoping Henry goes over and it leads to a WWE title feud as that shit would fucking rock way more than Cena-Ryback (fuck Ryback), even the fucking promos would be boss as shit with Henry being all intimidating and destroying Cena and all of that jazz. 

I REALLY wish they'd turn Dolph face for a feud with a heel Henry, GOD that's like a current dream match for me.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Mark Henry was a beast in 2011, and holy shit I believe in 2002 or 2003 he just competed in the Arnold's Classic, and he looked like a giant fucking Tarzan with calves the size of hams, guy was a beast :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Well, I was basing it on what WWE would consider their "WOTY" category, which, as you stated, would be synonymous to "Superstar of the Year."
> 
> Change of topic: I see people throwing Orton/Cesaro from Main Event around in the MOTYC thread. Was it that good?


One person rates it 4* and this guys says 'people.' Haha, just bustin your balls.



sharkboy22 said:


> NYR '05 and SD EC '11 are the GOAT chambers if you ask me.


SD 2011 & this year's version are numbers 3 and 4 for me, **** for both. Then I have like 4 or 5 different ones at *** 1/2. 



xdoomsayerx said:


> All this chamber talk has made me put in the DVD and I just finished summerslam 03 chamber match..... Holy crap this one was awful.
> 
> The WOAT chamber match!??


As stated, the bottom two are DEFINITELY the 2006 ones (D2D & NYR) with ECW just edging it out as the worst I believe. Summerslam has a couple decent moments but I wouldn't go over *** for it.



KingOfKings said:


> I think Punk EASILY MAULS Randy Orton for WWE WOTY in 2011. I say this because despite having a nice selection of matches that year I don't think he had very many matches where HE HIMSELF stood out and was the dominant worker. The Christian matches? More of a nod to Christian. Same goes with the Punk matches and the Henry matches if you ask me. I LOVED Orton's work with Rhodes but I felt that Orton fell flat a few times during 2011 (BARRETT FEUD).
> 
> Punk gets my nod for 2012 as well. Danielson simply doesn't get enough time to shine despite being the superior worker to Punk.


(Y) (Y) (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

dbryan/henry cage 11 ****
orton/henry oct 11 sd ****

which is better henry/orton noc or hiac ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Henry/Orton NoC was definitely better. I wouldn't go more than ***** for the HIAC match. Henry looked like a monster in that match though.

Henry also had a real nice heel/heel lumberjack match with Christian in 2011 that's worth a watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IMO Henry/Orton NOC is a top 5 for both guys. Maybe top 3. Hell, I can only think of one match from both guys I DEFINITELY like better - Bryan cage match for Mark and the Rey SD match for Randy (watched that yesterday and it hold up TREMENDOUSLY well. If I do make the top 15-20-whatever WWE matches of the 2000s list it's in my top ten for sure). 

Henry has the Rey matches in 2006 which I will watch again at some stage, but on last watch I like Henry/Orton more. He has a supposedly great 2008 run which I am hopefully going to get into more in depth tomorrow. I like the Orton match at NOC more than any Big Show/Henry match, and the Punk match from 2012.

Orton's two best matche with Benoit are awesome, 8/16/04 and 1/13/06, but I think I prefer the Henry match to both. After re-watching the Orton/Foley match a couple of times within the past year, it doesn't hold up as well as I'd like (thought it is REALLY good, don't get me wrong). Definitely prefer the Henry match. I should watch the Orton/Taker matches again, I guess, and I will finally watch Cena/Orton at Breaking Point hopefully sometime in the next two days. I like the Henry NOC match more than the Christian matches, tbph. Over the Limit is really close, though and on next watch I could prefer it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching BROCK's entire run since he came back in 2012 leading up to the cage match in 9 days. The contract signing between Johnny Ace and BROCK LESNAR is eerily similar to Brock's real life demands back in 2004, you could tell that there was some personal animosity coming through in that one for sure. 

I swear to god literally EVERYTHING Brock touches turns into pure fucking gold. It's like he's on a completely different level than the rest of the roster and it's insane. The NATURAL CHARISMA..... The intensity ...... I don't know how to describe this run, but it's nothing short of amazing. EVERYTHING HE DOES IS WORTH WATCHING.

He really does walk around like he owns the fucking place, & I don't want it to stop anytime soon.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching some of Henry's stuff in 2011 and forget what I said earlier mark Henry is WOTY, yea he doesn't have a ***** classic like MITB or classic with Christian at otl but his run screams consistency, cannot wait to watch noc with orton tomorrow


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Wait, Henry/Orton is _that_ good? Last I watched, I had it around the 3 star mark.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:datass :mark: :yes :datass :mark: :yes




:datass :mark: :yes :datass :mark: :yes​


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Match is overrated imo.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Getting rid of the bad taste Edge/Cena TLC left in my mouth by watching Summerslam '02. Angle/Rey (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I would actually take Orton over punk as WOTY for 2011, its pretty damn close though


huh?

Orton had like one stand out match and that's it. Even then Christian was the catalyst for the match being so strong. Ironically enough, Orton's work vs Henry at NOC was a match where he had just about his best performance in. Yet, that's not a go-to match for the guy from some folk.

Cody Rhodes had a better 2011 than Orton did for the sake of the topic.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Match is overrated imo.


'Overrated' sounds like I don't like the match, and I did b/c it was fucking great, but yeah, I kind of think Punk/Bryan is a little overrated. I thought Bryan/Sheamus was better by a sort of small, but comfortable amount.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, Bryan/Sheamus was definitely better than Punk/Bryan imo.

I did like Bryan/Punk tho.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Both matches/feuds were good, but I enjoyed Punk/Bryan more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do believe HOL shares the opinion with myself in preferring MITB over OTL. Could be wrong. Think it was him.

Punker vs Danielson. Danielson vs Sheamus. I love it all.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm watching Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker in HELL.. IN A CELL. :datass Haven't seen this match in a long time. I used to mark the fuck out over it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know I still do. Always going to be a top five HIAC for me.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Obfuscation said:


> Do believe HOL shares the opinion with myself in preferring MITB over OTL. Could be wrong. Think it was him.


(Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of HIACs, watched HHH/Foley today. I'm quite faded right now so I'll leave the write up for when I have all of my facilities. It's great but probably not a top 5 Cell. I'm thinking HBK/Taker, Brock/Taker, HHH/Batista (that's definitely my top 3) and probably Edge/Taker and HHH/Taker. Would have to re-watch those last two to see if they're better than Trips/Foley but right now I'm guessing they are.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Michaels
Undertaker vs Mankind
Undertaker vs Lesnar
Triple H vs Batista

and I'd have to take a quick second to think about what my final pick would be. I'm tired; love a lot. I'll think it over tomorrow. Could be Undertaker vs Orton or Undertaker vs Edge quite easily. Oh wait, I am one of the biggest "marks" for DX vs McMahons/Show. Really that could work its way into my list just thanks to how much I love it via its fun nature. Well, dunno if it would have the Taker vs Orton match beat. Now I'm rambling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Top 5 HIAC:

HBK/Taker
Taker/Brock
Taker/Edge - This needs more love I feel, its fantastic IMO.
HHH/Batista - THE fucking best IMO.
Taker/HHH



Always have a soft spot for the 6 Man one too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Top 5 HIAC matches:

1. Taker vs. Shawn
2. Taker vs. Brock
3. Taker vs. Orton
4. Trips vs. Batista
5. Taker vs. Edge


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Top 5 HIAC:

Taker/HBK
HHH/Batista
Taker/Lesnar
Taker/Edge
HHH/Foley

I haven't watched the HHH/Foley match recently but when I last did it held up well and was still in my top 5. Like Zep, I also have a soft spot for the 6-man Armageddon match.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Top 5 HIAC

Taker v Shawn
Taker v Brock
HHH v Batista
Taker v HHH
Foley v Taker

Taker is the KING of HIAC, Taker v Edge would be my number 6


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock's UFC100 after-match promo, shows what he could do


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> FUCK THAT. Hopes for that match just went south in a hurry. It'll probably go on 2nd and be totally forgettable... but who knows.


I've still got good hopes for it. It would be cool it if was a Four-Corners Strap Match, haven't seen one of those in a long while. But it'll probably just be the variant where they're handcuffed together via a long leather strap. There's no running. It'll just be the two of them beating the hell out of each other.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

you guys are crazy. big boss man v. undertaker is the greatest hell in a cell match of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Almost certain a strap match means they'll have to hit the four corners. If not then well, that's a MAJOR positive for those two workers getting such a bleh gimmick.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

GOAT Storyteller in the ring? I'm leading towards Flair.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I do hope it's a pin/submission strap and not a four-corner one. Four corners is kind of hard to make look really good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Wait, Henry/Orton is _that_ good? Last I watched, I had it around the 3 star mark.


I watched it recently and only thought it was around the *** mark. Henry was good, Orton was good, but it wasn't a great match or anything. Felt weird and awkward in places. Wrote about it a while back. Can't be arsed to find what I wrote though.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

GOATAntics said:


> GOAT Storyteller in the ring? I'm leading towards Flair.


Depends on the story, really.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> huh?
> 
> Orton had like one stand out match and that's it. Even then Christian was the catalyst for the match being so strong. Ironically enough, Orton's work vs Henry at NOC was a match where he had just about his best performance in. Yet, that's not a go-to match for the guy from some folk.
> 
> Cody Rhodes had a better 2011 than Orton did for the sake of the topic.


yea i hear yea, as i gave it some thought, it didn't register and i changed my candidate

WOTY is between henry,punk, and christian definitely (in my imo that order)


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2011 WOTY?

Christian or Punk for me. 

Great matches week in week out. Christian pulled a decent match out of SIN CARA so he probably tops it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Noticed some (or just one? I don't remember. I'm not sleeping. GO AWAY) people starting to mention Henry in the WOTY conversation for 2011. I was saying it at the very end of 2011 and nobody was taking notice of me. Bout time people hopped on my train of thinking! 

Totally wanted to say something else. Maybe about a match? Certain wrestler? I genuinely don't remember. Well. Ok.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@Big Z im fully with you with henry in 2011. About the best storyteller question ,it depends on the match recently Id go with punk,hhh,taker


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh my goodness, has anyone looked at that thread about Rock's in-ring ability? My goodness what a joke! People having the audacity to disgrace the name of the GOAT big man.

Christian was able to get a good match out of Sin Cara, but Orton did everyone one better and got a good match out of *DAVID FREAKIN' OTUNGA*. 2011 was the last time we saw Orton put some passion in his ring work, but he was a great workhorse that year a la Sheamus last year. With that said, nobody was better than Punk in 2011.

My favorite face storytellers would have to be Steamboat, Hart, Windham, and Michaels. All of them could sell vulnerability with the best of them and they were masterful at making their opponent look dangerous. The three major members of the Four Horsemen (Flair, Blanchard, Arn) were masterful heel storytellers in their own right.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, after I saw everyone agreeing that Edge was a better wrestler than Christian in one of them threads, I stopped checking the non-news ones.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I know right, Rock is by no means a better in ring worker than Taker. I understand him being better in the charisma, mic work and drawing categories but not a chance when it comes to wrestling performances and such. What can you do though? Markers gonna Mark.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

:lmao

OH GOD. DID SOMEONE ACTUALLY SAY ROCK WAS BETTER THAN UNDERTAKER

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I'm still scratching my head at the "Christian got a good match out of Sin Cara" comments... as if Mistico needs someone to carry him to a good match? He's a victim of time constraints most of the time, he had to conform his style to something more ordinary, and his injuries have hurt him a lot. But even with those restrictions, I'd say hes done a solid job in his role. Teaming with Mysterio, facing Daniel Bryan, facing Tyson Kidd, vs. Chavo... they're all good matches for what they are at least.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

some of these katz in the wwe section say the darnest things I tell you


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tbf, The Rock was ahead of Undertaker in 2000. But definitely not better than Undertaker at his best from 2005-onwards.



NO! said:


> I'm still scratching my head at the "Christian got a good match out of Sin Cara" comments... as if Mistico needs someone to carry him to a good match? He's a victim of time constraints most of the time, he had to conform his style to something more ordinary, and his injuries have hurt him a lot. But even with those restrictions, I'd say hes done a solid job in his role. Teaming with Mysterio, facing Daniel Bryan, facing Tyson Kidd, vs. Chavo... they're all good matches for what they are at least.


If you're trying to defend Sin Cara/Mistico in here, then you're alone in a sea of sharks!

I liked his matches back in 2011, though. So I wont consider myself part of the hate-train at all. Although the last time I watched a match of his goes back to Night of Champions.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock was ahead of Taker in 2000 no doubt... of course Rock was having his best year and Taker was having one of his, if not his worst. If you mean up until that year as far as looking at their careers, it'd be fairly close.

I would say since about 2002 Taker's been above Rock, and then from 2005-on he's far exceeded him in the ring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

... Waiting for Cal .


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Bret Hart vs. Diesel (11/19/1995)-****+*
-Diesel dominates the first quarter of the match with Hart bumping around like a mofo. Steel steps and steel chair and I like how they mixed in elements from their earlier matches and incorporated that into the match. Diesel goes for the Jacknife but Hart holds on into the leg and comes back aiming for the eyes and the legs of the big man. Hart locks in the Figure 4 Leg Lock and Diesel muscles to the ropes. Bret goes for the Sharpshooter but Diesel pokes him in the eye and pushes him into the exposed turnbuckle; Bret goes back to the leg. Bret ties Diesel’s foot to the turnbuckle and capitalizes on Diesel’s immobility but Diesel blocks the chair attempt but not the second time as Bret takes control. Diesel throws Hart off the top and unties himself; follow up with a side walk slam and dumping him into the exposed turnbuckle (ouch). Diesel sits on Bret in the ropes then follows up with snake eyes. Bret gets his momentum back and hit some big moves himself. He takes a chance and misses; he climbs onto the apron and Diesel tackles him off and through the table. Great finish with Bret playing possum and luring Big Daddy Cool in for a rollup victory and Diesel is pissed that he fell for it and goes apeshit on Hart. This is easily my favorite Nash match ever and one of my favorite Bret matches, these two had great chemistry.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

NO! said:


> I'm still scratching my head at the "Christian got a good match out of Sin Cara" comments... as if Mistico needs someone to carry him to a good match? He's a victim of time constraints most of the time, he had to conform his style to something more ordinary, and his injuries have hurt him a lot. But even with those restrictions, I'd say hes done a solid job in his role. Teaming with Mysterio, facing Daniel Bryan, facing Tyson Kidd, vs. Chavo... they're all good matches for what they are at least.


At the time, Sin Cara's match with Christian was Sin Cara's best match to in the WWE, so yes, Christian got a good match out of him. Sin Cara's problem is he's still not properly adjusted to the WWE style of wrestling, and he has communication problems because he can't speak English which leads to botches. Him being injury-prone and failing the wellness policy doesn't help either, but I wouldn't put ''time constraints'' as an excuse. Many wrestlers in the WWE are restricted to time constraints a lot and they can still deliver, Sin Cara can't most of time. Sin Cara in the WWE has been one of the biggest letdowns in wrestling in the last few years.

Teaming with Mysterio was helping Sin Cara though, because Mysterio can speak Spanish and that helped Sin Cara with the communication in matches.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

EVAN DAT NAME CHANGE. But your sig is tolerable now. :lol

I've gradually made this thread my mostly permanent home in the WWE section. Most other threads (like when someone talks about Miz being the third best in the company) are filled with trash. 

This thread is currently GOAT.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> I know right, Rock is by no means a better in ring worker than Taker. I understand him being better in the charisma, mic work and drawing categories but not a chance when it comes to wrestling performances and such. What can you do though? Markers gonna Mark.


 Who said that? Sharpshooter? I think his argument was that Rock had better matches than Taker in the period of 1997-2004 which is arguable tbf. I'm not saying it's true but it can go both ways. Better overall worker? Taker by far obviously.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I've gradually made this thread my mostly permanent home in the WWE section. Most other threads *(like when someone talks about Miz being the third best in the company)* are filled with trash.


:bosh


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Face Triple H has saddened me by this point and I'm going to leave the memories alone, that's why I'm going to support The Beast Incarnate.... BRRRRROOOOCK .... LESNARRR! (The way Paul E says his name :mark:.

I went back and watched the entire Cena Vs BROCK feud from last year and it was nothing short of fantastic. Might have to watch Cena Vs BROCK for the 13th time or something before I move on to the HHH feud.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2 GAME marks with matching BORK sigs. 

:HHH

:brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think BORK vs GAME might have their best match inside the steel cage. I have a bad feeling the crowd might be dead once again but inside the ring with the cage surrounding it, that prevents them from wasting too much outside which is part of what made their previous matches so slow.

I am beyond caring at this point as this has dragged on for far too long but PLEASE BRING IT, GUYS!


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

So I posted my thoughts on some of that Best of In Your House set a few pages ago... here's the rest:

- No Holds Barred Match for the WWE Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel
In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies * April 28, 1996

******

Very fun. I've mentioned this in the past, but Bret and Shawn are the only two guys I can think of who have managed to get numerous good to great matches out of Kevin Nash. It was interesting to see a prosthetic leg used as a weapon here... 

- WWE Championship Match
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind
In Your House: Mind Games * September 22, 1996

*****1/2*

Amazing work here. Mick Foley's best singles match of his career probably. He seemingly pulled out every single trick he knew, and more. Using the casket and having Paul Bearer at ringside added something to it for me, as I always loved those gimmicks back in the day. 

- Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley
In Your House: Buried Alive * October 20, 1996

*****

Standard match, but very watchable. A hint of things to come, as these two worked tremendously well together later on. Jim Ross' headset not working kind of distracted the match a bit, but both guys still had good enough chemistry to execute a solid match.

- Buried Alive Match
The Undertaker vs. Mankind
In Your House: Buried Alive * October 20, 1996

******

VERY fun match. My favorite moment was Taker doing that altered version of the piledriver into the steel steps. Taker's purple glove bursting out from under the dirt is also a memorable moment. This is one of my favorite rivalries of all time which lasted for about 3 years and culminated with that classic Hell in a Cell Match in '98. Perhaps I'm overrating it a little bit, but I don't know... there wasn't much wrong with it for me.

- Four Corners Match for the Vacant WWE Championship
Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader vs. The Undertaker
In Your House: Final Four * February 16, 1997

****1/2*

It's a little overrated I feel, but still easy to sit through. Vader had some stiff shots in this match, as well as a nasty cut around his eye. He had to remove his mask towards the end because apparently the blood was beginning to bother him. Bret Hart surprisingly didn't do a whole lot in here, despite being the winner of the match. I think the stipulations and the fact that there were three other guys in there at once with him played a role in his unusually mediocre performance. He did a lot of punching and standard moves. Taker's performance was by far the best in my opinion. I don't look at this as the "great" match many others feel it is, but the pacing is incredible and I don't believe there has ever been another match quite like it (referring to the stipulations) so it sort of stands out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> 2 GAME marks with matching BORK sigs.
> 
> :HHH
> 
> :brock


:clap :agree:

GAME/BROCK MARKS UNITED.

If you switch Punk & Rock, we have scarily similar preferences.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Who the fuck is this Beast Incarnate guy? 



NO! said:


> I'm still scratching my head at the "Christian got a good match out of Sin Cara" comments... as if Mistico needs someone to carry him to a good match? He's a victim of time constraints most of the time, he had to conform his style to something more ordinary, and his injuries have hurt him a lot. But even with those restrictions, I'd say hes done a solid job in his role. Teaming with Mysterio, facing Daniel Bryan, facing Tyson Kidd, vs. Chavo... they're all good matches for what they are at least.


Cara was cool for like two months, then he started botching shit left and right and just flat out looked awful in almost every match. WAYYYY too spotty, and I'm only going on what I've seen in his WWE work, never saw him as Mistico. The Chavo match is pretty bad, btw. haha. Everyone else you listed are folks I'd consider good workers, so it's no surprise they did something good with Cara.



Choke2Death said:


> If you're trying to defend Sin Cara/Mistico in here, then you're alone in a sea of sharks!


:lol

It's true though. That guy can go with Ryback and gtfo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Who the fuck is this Beast Incarnate guy?


http://www.wwe.com/videos/paul-heym...he-new-king-of-kings-raw-aug-20-2012-26046887

:brock


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah i dont think they can top their summerslam match, it will probably be much better than their mania one though


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> http://www.wwe.com/videos/paul-heym...he-new-king-of-kings-raw-aug-20-2012-26046887
> 
> :brock


HOLY SHIT THAT'S INCREDIBLE SYMBOLISM

Really though, that's pretty cool.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So after seeing Yeah1993 rambling about Orton/Henry from NOC being a top 5 Orton match, I decided to give it a rewatch to see how well it holds up. Still a solid match and better than I recall with Henry being the monster heel going against a resilient face champion who refuses to stay down. Both sell their desperation pretty well and this was one of Orton's better face performances I've seen. A top 5 match of his, though? HELL NAW! Still giving it ★★★¾.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> :lol
> 
> It's true though. That guy can go with Ryback and gtfo.


Don't get the Ryback hate either. He's proven to be capable of having some good matches even if he may need a good opponent for it. Been meaning to watch the Jericho match from Smackdown which I heard good things about but too lazy to bother with it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton/Henry NOC is *** for me. Good match but nothing _that_ great imo, seen it twice as well. I liked Cena/Del Rio & Punk/Trips from the same show better.

Ryback has shown me a bunch of nothing. His selling is terrible, offense is one dimensional, can't structure a match, looked to be a dangerous worker on many occasions, etc. The only thing I wouldn't mind watching him do would be destroying jobbers, which he's unfortunately moved on from.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Disagree that Ryback's selling is terrible, think it's pretty underrated IMO. Example of his decent selling skills are below. Pause around 0.53 where Cesaro hits the uppercut and Ryback sells it well.






Or how he sold the aftermatch of the Shield's attack and then Mark Henry's attack.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll admit the first one was good with the uppercut, but the 2nd he just acts like he's dead. haha. I've just generally never enjoyed his selling. It's always very "i'm somewhat stunned by this but ultimately I'm ok and going to get right back up", as I've seen in the matches with Punk. Or he just coughs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im glad someone is praising the Brock/Cena feud, yeah we all (most) know how awesome the ER match is, but the build was fantastic, short and sweet, didnt drag, some great moments like Brock's first appearance, F5'ing Cena and then kicking his fucking cap :lol , also when Cena got all bloodied up, fantastic.

I do actually wanna see a rematch with Lesnar winning this time of course.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

In his defense his character is one who doesn't get phased easily, so he may not react to certain moves the way others would. That, or he's just shit at selling. :side:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> So after seeing Yeah1993 rambling about Orton/Henry from NOC being a top 5 Orton match, I decided to give it a rewatch to see how well it holds up. Still a solid match and better than I recall with Henry being the monster heel going against a resilient face champion who refuses to stay down. Both sell their desperation pretty well and this was one of Orton's better face performances I've seen. A top 5 match of his, though? HELL NAW! Still giving it ★★★¾.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get the Ryback hate either. He's proven to be capable of having some good matches even if he may need a good opponent for it. Been meaning to watch the Jericho match from Smackdown which I heard good things about but too lazy to bother with it.




Name 1 ***	star match he has had besides tlc 12.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Name 1 ***	star match he has had besides tlc 12.


 I can name two. Match with Daniel Bryan last week and the TLC match with Punk. If we're talking about multi-man matches then there is all the matches against the Shield (EC and on RAW when Jericho was in the team instead of Cena).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Name 1 ***	star match he has had besides tlc 12.


TLC v Punk, Smackdown v Bryan and the Shield tags he's in.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> EVAN DAT NAME CHANGE. But your sig is tolerable now. :lol


I find his posts more readable now that he doesn't have Cena plastered all over his profile. 8*D



xdoomsayerx said:


> Name 1 ***	star match he has had besides tlc 12.


Ryback/Punk TLC from RAW I have at ****3/4*.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Name 1 ***	star match he has had besides tlc 12.


TLC is actually ★★★★½ to me. Other than that:

- Punk TLC match is ★★★½ (good job by BOTH guys)
- Elimination Chamber match with Shield
- A solid match with Bryan last week

Plus I have yet to see the Jericho match from this week. And that's without me even following most of what has taken place in the past 10 months. And chances are, he'll get the job done with Cena at ER.

He's not meant to be a technician or anything like that. Him selling "poorly" fits his monster character. For what he's supposed to be, I think he's fine. Plus he silenced all his critics that mocked his strength when he Shell-Shocked Mark Henry at Mania.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

vs. Daniel Bryan on Smackdown
vs. CM Punk TLC
w/ Cena and Sheamus vs. The Shield at EC
w/ Jericho and Sheamus vs. The Shield the night after EC.
possibly vs. Henry at Mania


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> In his defense his character is one who doesn't get phased easily, so he may not react to certain moves the way others would. That, or he's just shit at selling. :side:


I'm ok with saying it's a mixture of the two. 

I just really don't like anything about the guy. TLC vs. Punk was *** 1/4, and that wasn't exactly because of him. haha. Haven't seen the match with Bryan.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched henry/orton noc ***3/4 decent bout not a top 5 for both thought. Orton had good selling of the leg and Henry monster antics were good. I prefer their SD matches to this though. Henry and Orton had MUCH better match in 2011 alone


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did everyone see Orton vs. Big Show was confirmed for Extreme Rules? Extreme Rules match is the stip, gives it much more to look forward to imo. My guess is that Orton wins after 9 kendo stick shots, a hanging ddt onto a chair, then an RKO.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I hope Big Show goes over. Monster Big Show is good for the company.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did everyone see Orton vs. Big Show was confirmed for Extreme Rules? Extreme Rules match is the stip, gives it much more to look forward to imo. My guess is that Orton wins after 9 kendo stick shots, a hanging ddt onto a chair, then an RKO.


I was already looking forward to the match the most but with the No DQ stipulation, it might get even better. And Orton better win this, there's not much use in Big Show anymore unless he's putting over others. Also the build-up would call for Orton to win but due to how retarded the company has gone in recent times, I can't even be sure about that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Orton stays away from his usual face schtick than I think the match will be just fine. NO DOUBE it'll be spotty as fuck with Orton hitting an RKO OUT OF NOWHEREEEEEEE & HANGING DDT SOMEHOW OH MAY GAWD.

Going to watch BROCK Vs HHH II instead of BROCK Vs Cena......... I NEED THIS TO BE GOOD.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Ok maybe tlc with punk, but ryback/Bryan is nothing special at all. **1/2 for me.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Matt_Yoda said:


> *Bret Hart vs. Diesel (11/19/1995)-****+*
> -Diesel dominates the first quarter of the match with Hart bumping around like a mofo. Steel steps and steel chair and I like how they mixed in elements from their earlier matches and incorporated that into the match. Diesel goes for the Jacknife but Hart holds on into the leg and comes back aiming for the eyes and the legs of the big man. Hart locks in the Figure 4 Leg Lock and Diesel muscles to the ropes. Bret goes for the Sharpshooter but Diesel pokes him in the eye and pushes him into the exposed turnbuckle; Bret goes back to the leg. Bret ties Diesel’s foot to the turnbuckle and capitalizes on Diesel’s immobility but Diesel blocks the chair attempt but not the second time as Bret takes control. Diesel throws Hart off the top and unties himself; follow up with a side walk slam and dumping him into the exposed turnbuckle (ouch). Diesel sits on Bret in the ropes then follows up with snake eyes. Bret gets his momentum back and hit some big moves himself. He takes a chance and misses; he climbs onto the apron and Diesel tackles him off and through the table. Great finish with Bret playing possum and luring Big Daddy Cool in for a rollup victory and Diesel is pissed that he fell for it and goes apeshit on Hart. This is easily my favorite Nash match ever and one of my favorite Bret matches, these two had great chemistry.


I love that match. The story of the match is perfect with both Bret and Diesel doing anything and everything to win the match. The ending where Diesel shows sympathy for Bret Hart but getting out-smarted by Bret Hart as a result. The post-match attack Diesel gave Bret Hart was also a nice touch, giving a spark to his character who lost some of that edge when he turned into a fan-favorite. Great stuff. 

Probably one of Nash's top match along with his matches with HBK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rewatched the SummerSlam rematch between Benoit and Orton from Raw again. Wow, this is even better than I remember it being both times I've seen it. Benoit's intensity is extremely on point as it goes something like 10 minutes where he has all the offense and Orton never catches a break. Some may complain that it makes him look weak but I think it fits the story of Benoit looking to win back the title against an unprepared Orton perfectly. Then after the dropkick on the apron, the match becomes more even as Orton puts some serious chinlocks on that turns Benoit's face purple. It becomes better then with Orton trying to take control by working on the neck but Benoit being way too tough until Evolution distracts him long enough so Orton can capitalize with a picture perfect RKO. Post-match beatdown was also good and the "Batista fears charisma" sign made me laugh. AWESOME match and reminds me that I need to revisit Orton's 2004 work before I make a "best of" list for him.

★★★★


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't believe I'm doing this, but top ten Kevin Nash matches:

vs. Bret SvS 95: *****1/2*
vs. Michaels IYH:GFBE: *****1/4*
vs. Bret KOTR 94: ******
vs. Undertaker WM XII: ****** 
vs. Bret RR 95: ******
vs. Michaels WM XI: ****3/4*
w/ Michaels vs. Razor/Kid: ****3/4*
w/Hall vs. Luger/Giant Superbrawl 7: ****1/2*
vs. Samoa Joe TP 08: ****1/2*
w/ Hall vs. Konnan/Mysterio: ****1/4 (God bless Rey Mysterio for this carryjob)*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

And here is the beginning of my new project. It's something some of you will dislike, something some of you may not understand, something some of you may think I'm a bit odd for but for some, it'll be something you will enjoy... Hopefully.

A CHRIS MASTERS SUPERSTARS PROJECT~!

I'm going to watch and give my thoughts on every single Chris Master's match on Superstars. I don't know how many there are, I don't know how long it will take me. All I do know is that I'm going to enjoy the shit out of it and revel in the goodness that is Mr Superstars himself - The Masterpiece.

*vs. Santino Marella - August 6, 2009*
Match starts off with Santino trying to be funny, and it's not cringeworthy, it's pretty funny, but Masters quickly gains control as you would expect. IIRC this was shortly after Masters' return to the WWE and he's still a heel at this point, so I'm not expecting the juicy Masters goodness yet, however this match is harmless. Santino cheers up the crowd and does his usual routine. Masters has hardly any offense to allow Marella to showcase what he has, but 'Piece gets the decisive victory at the end. I wouldn't recommend watching it whatsoever, it goes just under five minutes and there isn't anything remotely memorable about the match, but for the sake of the project it was pretty harmless.
*
vs. Mark Henry - August 20, 2009*
The basic story of this match is simply "Chris Masters is big and Chris Masters is strong. But he's got nothing on Mark Henry." So it's basically used to showcase and exhibit Mizark, but Masters still had some offense and it wasn't exactly a squash. I say some offense, it's basically clubbing forearms, a reverse chinlock and a lot of attempted Masterlocks - but he couldn't lock them in because of the story; Henry is too big and too strong. In the end, Masters throws in the towel and loses via intentional countout. Once again, nothing great and you shouldn't realy watch it, but for the project, it's harmless. The first two matches have been very uneventful  I hope he turns face soon. 

*vs. Evan Bourne - September 3, 2009*
YES. Masters can either turn face or go up against amazing faces. I don't mind either  I'm surprised I've not seen this already seeing as they're two of my favourite workers of the past few years. Anyway, I'm going to stop rambling and discuss the match. After Evan's quick burst, Masters gains control and works on the back of Bourne with some nifty offense, including an awesome military press turned in to backbreaker thing that looked absolutely brutal, made me legit cringe. Masters' backwork is magnificent and Bourne's facial expressions and noises sell the pain well, as you'd expect. Evan eventually makes his comeback with some stiff looking strikes, whilst still selling the pain his back is causing him. A sweet little finishing sequence tops off a quality match, and is a perfect example of why I love both of these men. WATCH THIS NOW.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzzKCCSGFkU

I can't find the next two Chris Masters matches. One vs. Santino and the other against Primo. Oh well 

*vs. Mark Henry - October 15, 2009*
I won't complain about another Mark Henry match, I hope it's a little bit better than the last though. This one is the final qualifying match for Team Raw at Bragging Rights, so I already know who's winning. Oh well. This match was just nothingness, in all honesty. Henry works on the midsection of Masters for the majority with some pretty boring offense, Masters turns it around and works on Henry's previously injured leg from two weeks prior, then Henry hits the WSS out of nowhere. A pretty crappy way to spend five+ minutes of your life. Probably the worst match so far, if I'm being honest. Blehhhh.

*w/ MVP vs. Carlito and Jack Swagger*
What a random tag team match, lmao. Oh well, will be a nice change of pace to see how Masters does in a tag match. Not a huge fan of Carlito and MVP but I like Swagger, so it evens out. MASTERS HAS TURNED! EVE IS WITH HIM! I miss Eve  Pretty blase match tbh. MVP starts off and dominates until the commercial break, and during the break the tide turns and Swaglito side control MVP. Porter makes the hot tag eventually and Masters clears house for a few seconds until Swagger distracts Masters long enough for Carlito to nail the Backstabber for the win. Boring as fuck match with a pretty crappy ending. Masters was in for a grand total of like, 50 seconds and ate the pin. Things best start picking up soon.

So yeah, I'd only recommend the Bourne match so far, but I'd HIGHLY recommend that. Pretty embarrassing start to a project I thought would be horrendously fun, but I'm more than confident that it will pick up soon. It wasn't until 2010 that Masters started to hit his stride anyway. Oh well. As they say - The only way is up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^^ dolph/master 10 :mark: :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Quick summaries of what I watched from 2005-2007.

Rey/Eddie holds up, obviously. There was never any doubt that I'll have 6/23 top ten. Judgment Day is getting a vote from me. Loved it. When I watched GAB last year I came out kind of disappointed, and I'm guessing I was just in a mood because I dug it almost as much as ever on this watch. The brainbuster on the second set of three amigos is a spot I totally forgot about and it kind of took me aback. I'd agree with jawbreaker that's it's the weakest of the three and I won't be throwing it a vote, but it is, in fact, awesome.

Cena v. JBL I Quit was kinda bleh. Very run-of-the-mill and average WWE area 'brawling' before Cena gets awesome and fires away at Bradshaw's back. Everything post-chair shot was better, but I didn't love it. The TV spot was completely lame and the table spot was even lamer. It had it's moments like JBL constantly wrapping things around Cena's throat (and Cena looking like he was dying), and Cena throwing Bradshaw into the limo door before ripping it off with his own hands, but this had too much shit I didn't give a shit about.

I liked Benoit/Regal 7/16/05 more this time, but I'm not going to vote for a less violent, less awesome, and more commercial-filled version of their No Mercy match when their No Mercy match is right there. Still a super match and I wouldn't be surprised if it made lists.

Edge/Hardy at Unforgiven is on the list, but near the bottom. I'll always dislike Edge's Christopher Daniels-y 'I've been knocked out for two seconds' selling on every hit he takes, but this might be career performance. He finds cool ways to use the cage and tries to bail out of the cage on Irish whips. This is kind of a Hardy show, though. He looked like the #1 guy in the company, and Matt getting to have his revenge for everything was beautiful. Also I fucking hate Lita's voice. Does she seriously sing in a band? She has the worst fucking female voice I've ever heard.

HHH/Batista Cell holds up pretty well, but it's more 'very good' than 'great'. I really liked how each weapon seemed like a dangerous and violent tool instead of a WWE prop, and stuff like a couple of the chain shots looked nasty. Probably a top 3 cell match, but there's only one cell I'd say is 'four stars' so I guess it isn't saying a huge bunch.

Rey/Orton 4/7/06 and Benoit/Finlay 5/5/06 blew me away. The former was a match that I thought went the tiiiiiiiiniest bit down while I watching 2006 consistently, but I loved it as much as ever here. Orton having counters for all of Rey's signatures was gorgeous. Face-planting him on bulldog attempts, drop-kicking him on springboards, uhhh some other shit. Rey plays the babyface being forced to sell, so you know how that is. Yeah amazing match. Benoit/Finlay 5/5 I don't think I have ever liked this much. Just a total rough-housing. They spend a good amount of time on the mat, and it all look unco-operative and stiff. Every hold looked hard-earned and none of it looked choreographed in the least. That's all I ask for. The two best matches during SmackDown's GODYEAR. I will have both of these ahead of HHH/Foley and Austin/Angle.

Benoit/Finlay Judgment Day holds up, classic match, top ten lock, etc. etc.

Benoit/Regal No Mercy holds up, great match, maybe top half, etc. etc.

Cena/Umaga LMS holds up, terrific match, top 5 WWE of the decade, maybe top 25 overall, etc. etc.

Cena/Michaels at Mania doesn't hold up. Well, I still think it's really good so it does 'hold up', but it doesn't live up to when I last watched it. The beginning was really great. Cena throws his gigantic fists, Michaels ducks every one of them and chops away. Cena was awesome selling the leg. Yeah you heard me. While Shawn was going after it he was selling and holding it and shaking and it was great. There's been tonnes of shit about him no-selling it afterward, but I didn't see that. For ONE - Michaels stopped working the leg long before Cena stopped selling it. FOR TWO - Cena was selling it between getting his offense in. For THREE - even after hitting his running shoulder-block he was selling it. So yah. Other stuff.....the ref bump didn't look stupid. Nasty piledriver on the steps. I didn't bother finishing the match. I knew I wasn't going to rank it so I stopped it. I really don't have much bad to say about this, other than it isn't really great. Since when is 'not great' a bad thing to say though? 'Great' doesn't come all that often.

Well 'great' does come with the Raw re-match. Great, great match. Cena ruled. I love that the headlock was clearly to bide time, but also looked great. Cena's superhero body builder arms really look like they have enough strength behind them to squeeze you brain out of your nostrils. He sells the body part maybe even better here. I loved when he yelled at his own shoulder to stop giving him trouble. Michaels was good and his old man exhaustion selling comes off way better in a lengthy match, but this was John Cena shifting from John Cena to John Motherfucking Cena. I said Rey/Chavo might be my #100 and this is right above it, so it could finish near the tail end.

Finlay/Hardy 6/22/07 and Finlay/Rey 11/9/07 are both on the list. The former will be high. The latter is something I didn't think I would vote for, but fuck it; I liked it more this time. Will be pretty high, not as high. Really, really great match. Million stars. Motherfucking Finlay.

Rey v. Noble from the week before Rey/Finlay is really goddamn good. I can't vote for it, but if someone did I wouldn't put a stink up. Noble does some neat and creative offense and Rey is forced to babyface sell. MILLION STARS!!!! If this was the WWF poll I'd consider it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ great review, I am probably the only person that has not seen cena/umaga LMS since i stopped watching wwe at the begin of this feud and got back in it in 2011 ,might watch it if Im not doing anything tonite. Love the hbk/cena series and have it in my top 5 mania matches. I think the raw match is in my top 5 raw matches as well, Cena's 2nd best series of matches


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^ great review, I am probably the only person that has not seen cena/umaga LMS since i stopped watching wwe at the begin of this feud and got back in it in 2011 ,might watch it if Im not doing anything tonite. Love the hbk/cena series and have it in my top 5 mania matches. I think the raw match is in my top 5 raw matches as well, Cena's 2nd best series of matches




Cena/Umaga is definitely a MUST WATCH. In fact I'm gonna rewatch this match over the weekend! RIP Umaga


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Finally got around to watching Elimination Chamber 2013 on Blu-ray. I watched it live but wasn't really paying attention. My review:

*World Heavyweight Championship: Alberto Del Rio vs. The Big Show*
Like a lot of people, I was confused why, after two LMS matches, they were having a straight match, but it wasn't until after this match that I realized it was so that Del Rio could get a clean victory and look really strong going into WM. This is obviously different from the two LMS matches, but it's still quite good. Show can bump so well, Del Rio can wrestle, the pace never let up. This was a good title match, a good opener, and very entertaining. Only nitpick: there was a sequence that was straight out of a match Show had with Jericho just three nights before, and it was odd how the commentators made such a big deal of it.

***1/4

*United States Championship: Antonio Cesaro vs. The Miz*
Another match that never let up. Miz looked great here, there were some really inventive moves, and the crowd was into it. I think considering that this feud never really got much resolution, we should have had a clean finish here. The non-finish would have worked better on TV. Still, solid match.

**3/4

*Elimination Chamber Match: Randy Orton vs. Jack Swagger vs. Chris Jericho vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane vs. Mark Henry*
Okay, given the competitors, this should have been a MOTYC...it isn't. Not even close. It is solid, though. You get some great wresting from Y2J and Bryan, Henry is great as the monster as always, Orton looked like he could win it, and Swagger looked strong yet his win was still a shocker. The match just never switched into another gear. Not a "disappointment," but not as good as it could have been.

***1/4

*John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback vs. The Shield*
The Shield is soooo good. Their matches are just crisp, vicious, exciting, you name it. This started strong and never let up. Cena as the fip was perfect, especially since the action remained exciting. The finish was definitely a shocker.

***1/2

*Kofi Kingston vs. Dolph Zigger*
Filler incarnate. The finish was cool, Ziggler looks strong going into WM, and Big E gets some nice screen time.

**

*Divas Championship: Kaitylyn vs. Tamina*
Decent women's match. Nothing to write home about or rip apart.

**

*WWE Championship: The Rock vs. CM Punk*
Personally, I liked the RR match better. I thought it hit all the right notes, was never boring, and the finish made sense. But given what it was hyped up to be, and what it could have been, I understand the hate. This match was okay, but the ending sequence was fun. Way too many restholds, it felt like the match was 75% restholds. The definitely shockers were Punk kicking out of the rock bottom and Punk having Rock beat clean for about 30 seconds. That's what I appreciate Rock coming back. Rock could win the match, but Punk looked incredibly strong coming out of it. And I still think it's awesome to see Rock, an international movie star, wrestling CM Punk for the WWE Title. Decent main event.

***


All in all, this was a solid show. 2013 had been a great year for WWE and WWE ppvs.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ambrose/Bryan is pretty good. Ambrose with his selling is pretty great, especially his selling of Bryan's kicks to the back (which did look nasty). I guess I understand the Kofi run-in, but I'm still not sure if I like it. AMBROSE STILL WON THOUGH.

Michael Cole still blows. (About Ambrose) "He's a strange dude."

Also think it's no surprise that Ambrose is only one (I think) who's been given singles time, not to mention they put him with Taker, and gave him time to get offense in, no less.

OH I'M TRACKING MY DOMINOS PIZZA RIGHT NOW :cole3:lawler


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cena v. JBL I Quit was kinda bleh. Very run-of-the-mill and average WWE area 'brawling' before Cena gets awesome and fires away at Bradshaw's back. Everything post-chair shot was better, but I didn't love it. The TV spot was completely lame and the table spot was even lamer. It had it's moments like JBL constantly wrapping things around Cena's throat (and Cena looking like he was dying), and Cena throwing Bradshaw into the limo door before ripping it off with his own hands, but this had too much shit I didn't give a shit about.


:hb

Watched it last time was thinking to myself it was typical WWE gimmick type stuff. I can put over a Chavo Guerrero Jr. & Charlie Haas match on the same PPV which I thought were better overall. Not to mention I liked Cena vs JBL stuff from '08 WAY more than I did in '05. Judgment Day '08 included. I have a lot of fun watching it. Don't get me started on their NYC parking lot brawl. I love that match too much for words.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Watched Piper/Goldie again. Might as well face it, such a fuckin' good drug.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I share your love for that match too. Well, match may be a bit of a stretch, but that's what makes it so rad.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/umaga LMS ****1/2

DAT SELLING


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I share your love for that match too. Well, match may be a bit of a stretch, but that's what makes it so rad.



Took a break from Taker's Tombstone doc (shamefully was I bored).

RAD. RAD LIKE THUNDER.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ryback vs Chris Jericho

Rating: ★★★

A pretty solid match between Jericho and Ryback. Ryback is continuing to impress me with his in-ring work as a heel. While the finish dragged the match down a bit, the ending with Ryback attacking Jericho post-match was a pretty good way to make him look strong going into the Extreme Rules PPV. Good match overall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SpookshowTony said:


> Took a break from Taker's Tombstone doc (shamefully was I bored).
> 
> RAD. RAD LIKE THUNDER.


THUNDER b/c the match was ELECTRIC.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

RYBACK RULES


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like RYBACK.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't mind him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nor do I. 

I like a solid big man worker. He's far from the best, but he's had some good matches so far. More than I can say for some others on the roster.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Ryback vs Bryan :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Loved it.

I think Ryback vs Jericho happens this week too. Oh man. Should be another FUN bout. Not to mention Danielson vs Ambrose on the same show. LOL smackdown is like totally awesome with some matches now. That's awesome; only funny considering they were crap for like 6+ months.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

fucking great now


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So it's looking like we're going to get Reigns/Rollins Vs Team Hell No & Ambrose Vs Kofi for the US title. 

I mean... Could they possibly have picked anybody WORSE for Ambrose's first singles PPV bout?

EDIT: Just watched Brock Vs HHH II and I'm still flabbergasted as to how STRANGE the match is. I mean, it's the only time I've ever been legitimately MAD at Triple H for his performance, as if he had to be better this would have no doubt been a classic in my eyes. Brock beasting as per usual and giving a great performance through his intensity and body language was sick, but Triple H's babyface performance was really some more forced epicness and as much as I hate to say it... IT WASN'T GOOD. Don't get me wrong, I actually really enjoyed the match on this go around for sure mainly due to the first three quarters, but once we get to that last stretch of offense by Triple H, it's just so anti climatic and not good that I really don't know what to say about it (which fucking sucks as I'd love to sit and tell you have this is an all time great match like the Summerslam match was).

Brock's WAR CRY speaks for itself really. Triple H really needs to stop working babyface if he's going to approach his matches from here on out like he approached this one. Still though, a fantastic although underwhelming bout due to the epicness of the original, I'm going up on it because the brutality mixed with the callbacks and story mixed in with Brock's monster heel performance makes it one of the biggest carryjobs I've ever seen and perhaps the most impressive performance in Lesnar's career outside of the obvious Extreme Rules 2012 bout. Then again, I REALLY shouldn't expect every match to be as great as the Summerslam match.... Yeah check this one out as I feel it's a completely awesome carryjob.

**** 3/4* for it .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AMBROSE VS KOFI WHAT?

now we all know why Kofi won the US championship again :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, at least Kofi is athletic and can sell a little bit. But still, neither the tag match nor is the US title match. 

I suppose Kofi was the only option to take the title off of Cesaro, or they could have had Miz not drop the IC title back to Wade and had Ambrose go after the IC title. 

I guess Wade's punishment for getting that huge pop the night after Mania is that he gets NOTHING to do afterwards. I mean, not on TV for a whole week, and gets knocked around on Raw. Maybe he'll get thrown on late and drop the title to a returning Christian so he can drop it to another upcoming heel.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They should just fire Barrett. Caught the last 40 or so minutes of Raw and he managed to have a worthless match with Sheamus. Thank God for Mark on commentary. Does anything say 'Change the Channel, Motherfucker' faster than having a Sheamus v. Henry stare-down ruined by Wade fucking Barrett? I am really tired of his existence. I think I prefer Kofi and Ryback at this point. Speaking of which Kane v. Ryback sucked. I don't think Ryback is an awful heel worker but I don't give a shit about him and he needs a good opponent. Kane is not that person. He did the worst 'tackle the legs' spot of all time, then threw laughably bad strikes while on the ground. Was no Dustin Rhodes v. Vader spot, that's for sure.

I'm not hating the build-up fro Sheamus/Henry. Well what I saw on this ep was pretty good. Sheamus going to throw Barrett into Henry w/ Henry flinching right out of his chair was awesome, and he acted embarrassed and destroyed Sheamus with the belt and his trash talking. The fact Sheamus has hit the Irish Kick (w/e the fuck it is) on Mark this many times will give a decent thing for them to play off of at ExRules. They gonna need a pretty long strap.



Obfuscation said:


> :hb
> 
> Watched it last time was thinking to myself it was typical WWE gimmick type stuff. I can put over a Chavo Guerrero Jr. & Charlie Haas match on the same PPV which I thought were better overall. Not to mention I liked Cena vs JBL stuff from '08 WAY more than I did in '05. Judgment Day '08 included. I have a lot of fun watching it. Don't get me started on their NYC parking lot brawl. I love that match too much for words.


I accidentally grabbed their 08 match when looking for the 05 match (they both happened at Judgment Day and I started the 08 video and was "huh, Cena had that shirt back in 2005?"). I'll revisit them someday.



SpookshowTony said:


> Watched Piper/Goldie again. Might as well face it, such a fuckin' good drug.


Yeah that match rules. MOTN of that WrestleMania. You see that punch that Piper shoves in Dustin's cheek? Brutal, brutal, brutal.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry should just do commentary all night, every night. Would make RAW 10x more interesting IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Well, at least Kofi is athletic and can sell a little bit. But still, neither the tag match nor is the US title match.


Athletic thing is probably the WORST excuse to give anyone praise. Especially he isn't even that good at that specific topic. He jumps high for a crossbody/leaping fist. All of his other aerial moves look like trash.



Yeah1993 said:


> I accidentally grabbed their 08 match when looking for the 05 match (they both happened at Judgment Day and I started the 08 video and was "huh, Cena had that shirt back in 2005?"). I'll revisit them someday.


Think they had a match on RAW during the same year too. Dunno if it is anything special. Has to be 100x better than the tripe from WM.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The JBL RAW 2008 TV match is solid, nothing more.

Glad somebody else enjoys the 2008 PPV trio they had, where as most critics tend to shit all over them like there's no tomorrow. The Cena-JBL chemistry is like the Cena-Big Show chemistry in the sense that it's appreciated by very few but tends to be AWESOME anyways.

I really should post my top 10 and bottom 10 Cena matches soon as I said I would, I just need to be motivated enough to write something up, which I'm currently NOT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember the First Blood match being the only one I wasn't really, really into, but I never disliked it. In fact, I should watch it tonight just to refresh myself on it. Don't own the other two. Which crushes me b/c I dig watching 'em. GAB is buckets of fun & Judgment Day is really good. I liked the pacing, personally. Yeah, it was slow. Oh well. Doesn't mean it = bad. The story told was good.

I'll usually support most Cena vs Big Show matches that happen. It's given me more good than bad. Having a hard time finding one I dislike as a whole. Maybe the '09 on from the commercial free RAW.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena's Judgment Day 2008 & 2009 matches are probably his most underrated in the sense that they're almost always universally shat on by everybody.

FUCK THE HATERS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seems to be the case. Cena vs Big Show from Judgment Day is one of my go-to matches from 2009 too.

:lmao how can I think so differently than most on this subject?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The 2008 series with JBL was SO FUCKIN' OLD SCHOOL. JBL wearing Cena down with a series of vicious clubs to the back, who doesn't love that shit?

Oh yeah, everybody apparently.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Scott Steiner fans might. Scotty is keen on those clubs to the back.

Which is a decent enough segway to say three matches in Fall Brawl '97 and this show rules. It won't last as the card will rise of course. But damn I'm loving it.

Guerrero vs Jericho. Steiners vs Harlem Heat in what may be their most entertaining match. Dragon vs Wright in a match that was A LOT better than I expected; even with myself liking Wright vs certain opponents. Next is Malenko vs Jarrett though. Which should be awful. As long as Faces of Fear vs Mortis/Wrath make up for it, I'll be one happy fan.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That lineup sounds fucking AMAZING.

Hate Harlem Heat (ALLITERATION), but I'm sure the GOAT Steiners could pull something out of them.

SCOTT STEINER :mark: (seriously starting to think I'm the biggest mark for the guy on here, which is a shame as outside of his shit WWE run he's been fucking solid, GREAT during his tag run)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've ranted on Harlem Heat more times than I can count. They pulled their weight enough here vs Steiners. HH's matches were only tolerable when vs Steiners, tbhayley. Having a hard time naming another I actually liked or didn't mind. Maybe ONE vs Nastys. _(who are better works than Harlem Heat themselves)_ Not the shit-storm from Uncensored though. Think it was the SuperBrawl '95 match.

Jarrett in '97 could be my pick for worst worker. Not even joking. For a guy who COULD have a decent match on PPVs and TV, he sure is being utter crap in every outing. Mongo - yes, Mongo - has had better matches this year. That says it all. I know Hogan, Hall, & Nash could pop up. But eh. Nash & Hall has had some good to decent tags already & Hogan isn't trying to let anyone he's a good worker. He shows up to earn the big bucks while Jarrett is trying to claim he's a workhorse and being terrible. Meng should have been United States Champion over him.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Legit curious about how Scott Steiner went from the sane Steiner brother, into that crazy ol' bastard.

Watched some WrassleWar 1990. Wrassle because all these matches are Southern, and so good. Easily one of the best PPvs I've ever seen. Not one dull moment, even in the Skyscrapers/Road Warriors match. Even Norman the Lunatic pulls out a good performance. I've offically seen it all in wrestling. Totally need to watch WrestleWar 89 for the Steamboat/Flair III. No idea what is stopping me . And then Steamboat/Funk. Oh, before I forget, Funk commentated on this PPV. Automatic must watch.

Open with some 
*Sullivan/Sawyer vs the Dynamic Dudes*. 
Granted, this is 1990, but Johnny Ace's face hasn't aged a day. And I wouldn't look at that as a good thing. His facial expression is exactly the same. Solid enough match, 
***1/2*

*the Lunatic up against Cactus Jack.* 
Foley rocks some jazzy clothes. I actually can't remember the match except the rating I gave it, and that the performance was well worked. 
****

*Rock n Roll up against the Midnight Express. *
This is so good. Feels like I am underrating it too. Everything typical you can expect from them, and a bit more. 
******

*Road Warriors vs the Skyscrapers.* 
Not good, but it's not bad. A fun brawl and nothing else. Was all about the Dooooom interference. 
**1/2*

*The Z Man & Flyin Brian vs the Freebirds*. 
Not sure I'll get how they named him the Z Man. Sounds like something he made up while he was on the buzz. Match was a bit longer than it should be, but it was good nonetheless. 
****1/4+*

*The Steiners vs the Andersons. *
A feisty brawl, that transcends into some Ole limb wrecking. WHat isn't to love? 
****3/4*

*Lex Luger vs Ric Flair.* 
Oh God do I love this so much. Definition of near perfect for me. Crowd going crazy, some top of notch wrestling and not one dull moment. Love it. 
*****3/4*​
TBF, wish I had some more to give on this PPV. Reviews are lazy. Err, watch it. Near perfect match (imo) in Luger/Flair, fantastic match from the RNR/MEX, and then some solid stuff to back the rest of the card up. Exceptional.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Midnight Express vs Rock N'Roll Express is SOOOOOOOOOOO great. Wished I had that Flair vs Luger match on DVD. Wouldn't mind having the last two tags either.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Cornette trying to fight the referee is definately the highlight of the show, then his temper tantrums not too far behind.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cornette vs Nick Patrick - Starrcade '90.

It should have gone down.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I may have Monday Night Wars back up and running again, due to Issues being missing.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Got to have Eaton & Lane in the corner for that match, throw in some hugs, Eaton arguing with the referee and Lane looking on through some sunglasses and easily a classic. RnR in the other corner, put Morton in peril, I'd vote piano hanging over his head, with him making a comeback even James Bond would be proud of.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Thoughts on this list everyone? (1998 best matches)

Matches List: 

The Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble 1998.avi 

Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Dude Love - No Disqualification Falls Count Anywhere Match - Vince McMahon Special Referee - WWF Championship - Over The Edge 1998.avi 

The Rock vs Triple H - 2 Out Of 3 Falls - Intercontinental Championship - Fully Loaded 1998.avi 

The Undertaker vs Kane (For The Vacant WWF Championship With Stone Cold Steve Austin As Special Guest Referee,Judgment Day 1998).avi 

Kane vs The Undertaker vs Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Mankind - Gerald Brisco Special Referee - Capital Carnage 1998.avi 

Steve Austin vs The Undertaker vs Kane - WWF Championship - Breakdown 1998.avi 

Stone Cold Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie vs DX & Savio Vega - Non-sanctioned 8-Man Tag Team Match - No Way Out of Texas 1998.avi 

Dude Love vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWF Championship - Unforgiven 1998.avi 

Ken Shamrock vs Mankind vs The Rock - Steel Cage - No. 1 Contender For WWF Championship - Breakdown 1998.avi 

Mankind vs The Rock - WWF Championship - Rock Bottom 1998.avi 

The Rock vs. Triple H (SummerSlam 1998 Ladder match, WWF Intercontinental Championship).avi 

The Rock vs Mankind - WWF Championship Finals - Survivor Series 1998.avi 

The Undertaker vs Kane - Inferno Match - Unforgiven 1998.avi 

The Undertaker & Steve Austin vs Kane & Mankind - WWF Tag Team Championship - Fully Loaded 1998.avi 

Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania XIV 1998 WWF Championship, Mike Tyson as special outside enforcer).avi 

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Royal Rumble 1998 Casket match, WWF Championship).avi 

Steve Austin vs The Undertaker - WWF Championship - Summerslam 1998.avi 

The Undertaker vs. Kane (WrestleMania XIV 1998).avi 

DX vs The Nation of Domination - Over The Edge 1998.avi 

The Undertaker vs. Mankind (King of the Ring 1998 Hell in a Cell match).avi 

Vader vs Kane - No Way Out of Texas 1998.avi 

Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker (Rock Bottom 1998, Buried Alive match).avi 

Owen Hart vs Triple H - European Championship - Unforgiven 1998.avi 

Ken Shamrock,Ahmed Johnson & The Disciples of Apocalypse vs The Nation of Domination - War of Attrition Match - No Way Out of Texas 1998.avi 

The Rock vs X-Pac - WWF Championship - Capital Carnage 1998.avi 

The Rock vs Ken Shamrock - Intercontinental Championship - Royal Rumble 1998.avi 

Ken Shamrock vs Mankind - Intercontinental Championship - Judgment Day 1998.avi 

New Age Outlaws vs L.O.D 2000 - WWF Tag Team Championship - Unforgiven 1998.avi 

The Rock vs Ken Shamrock - King Of The Ring Finals - King Of The Ring 1998.avi 

D'Lo Brown vs X-Pac - European Championship - Judgment Day 1998.avi 

Faarooq, Ken Shamrock & Steve Blackman vs Nation of Domination - Unforgiven 1998.avi 

Triple H vs Owen Hart - European Championship - WrestleMania 14.avi 

Jeff Jarrett vs X-Pac - Hair vs. Hair - Summerslam 1998.avi 

Owen Hart vs Ken Shamrock - Lion's Den Match - Summerslam 1998.avi 

Cactus Jack & Chainsaw Charlie vs New Age Outlaws - Dumpster Match - WWF Tag Team Championship - WrestleMania 14.avi 

Val Venis vs Jeff Jarrett - Fully Loaded 1998.avi 

D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis (SummerSlam 1998 WWF European Championship).avi 

The Brood vs J.O.B Squad - Rock Bottom 1998.avi 

Edge vs. Owen Hart (Breakdown 1998).avi 

X-Pac vs D'lo Brown - Fully Loaded 1998.avi 

Kane vs. Steve Austin (King of the Ring 1998 First Blood match, WWF Championship).avi 

Christian vs Taka Michinoku - Light Heavyweight Championship - Judgment Day 1998.avi 

The Rock vs Ken Shamrock - WWF Championship Quarter Finals - Survivor Series 1998.avi 

Triple H vs Jeff Jarrett - Capital Carnage 1998.avi 

Kane vs The Undertaker - WWF Championship Quarter Finals - Survivor Series 1998.avi


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena/JBL JD is shit. ER is also shit. GAB is awesome tho. :lmao

Cena NO SOLD FIRE

Also, Bryan/Ryback was great.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Bryan/Ryback was alright. Good, even. Maybe I'm just not interested in watching Ryback wrestle. It was a solid ***, and the sort of thing you might see on a 'Best of SmackDown 2013' DVD release, but it didn't set the world on fire or anything. I wouldn't bother re-watching it, is what I'm saying.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

3 sounds right, but I thought it was pretty great.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

As a worker, Finlay or Regal? Finlay had a style more of stiffness and brute capabilities while Regal excelled in the technicality field, but thats not to say each didn't hold their own in the opposite categories respectively. This is hard, I'm taking Finlay though. The IWC's take?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Regal, but what can I say? I'm a mark.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Finlay was a magnificent worker. Regal's great too, but Finlay.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> As a worker, Finlay or Regal? Finlay had a style more of stiffness and brute capabilities while Regal excelled in the technicality field, but thats not to say each didn't hold their own in the opposite categories respectively. This is hard, I'm taking Finlay though. The IWC's take?


Hardest question I've ever been asked.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

So I just watched the Edge/Guerrero Street Fight from 2002, and while I can see why a lot of people are high on it, I kind of wish it had just finished with the Sunset Flip off the Ladder. I feel like the setup for the ending made no sense, with Edge climbing the ladder when he was too far away from Eddie, with his back to him, no less. It just felt like an excuse to have a big SPOT~ to finish the match. Really soured my opinion on everything else about it. ****1/2*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> As long as *Faces of Fear vs Mortis/Wrath* make up for it, I'll be one happy fan.


Whoa whoa whoa REALLY!? MUST. SEE. I will 'Yeah1993' Haku/Meng/King Motherfucking Tonga one of these days.



GOATAntics said:


> As a worker, Finlay or Regal? Finlay had a style more of stiffness and brute capabilities while Regal excelled in the technicality field, but thats not to say each didn't hold their own in the opposite categories respectively. This is hard, I'm taking Finlay though. The IWC's take?


Finlay by a bit. I've seen Regal matches where he didn't look that great (I don't really like his 2001-2002, for example), he can take weird bumps (bumping being something Finlay is always awesome at), and despite being an amazing 'holy shit' offensive wrestler, I think Finlay is an even better 'holy shit' offensive wrestler. Regal wins facial expressions and trash talking pretty easily, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know it. I hope my expectations won't be too high while I watch it. Those two have given WCW the best tag matches of '97 so naturally a collision between the two SHOULD rock. I hope.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

anyone have a rating for Razor Ramon/Ted Dibiase?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't say. You've inspired me to watch it right now. I'll get back to you in ten minutes.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Random question, but who was a fan of Wrestlefest? I use to own some of the old vhs's of them. Loved them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match over. Like I figured: not worth anyone's time. Heenan's commentary was the best part.

Old school WWF tapes were so bossy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

COLISEUM VIDEO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SEAN MOONEY HOSTED

omg at who's lurking in the thread right now. I see you...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

vivalabrave?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

only lurks; still gets mentioned on this place from time to time.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Why doesn't he post?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Writing up a review on Vader/Sting from Superbrawl 1993. :mark:ing out while typing, So stay tuned.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

who is he/she?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

vivalabrave


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:hesk3


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

VIVALABRAVE!


----------



## Very European (May 10, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> *Scott Steiner fans might.* Scotty is keen on those clubs to the back.
> 
> Which is a decent enough segway to say three matches in Fall Brawl '97 and this show rules. It won't last as the card will rise of course. But damn I'm loving it.
> 
> Guerrero vs Jericho. Steiners vs Harlem Heat in what may be their most entertaining match. Dragon vs Wright in a match that was A LOT better than I expected; even with myself liking Wright vs certain opponents. Next is Malenko vs Jarrett though. Which should be awful. As long as Faces of Fear vs Mortis/Wrath make up for it, I'll be one happy fan.


We don't. Because those matches were just baaad, man, bad.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

vivalabrave is a MYTH.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know this has nothing to do with match but supposedly Ziggles is really fucked up ,he says he does remember anything since monday? this card is looking kinda bleak now with this and the bad strap match stip


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I've had a change of mood and now unmotivated to do my review, but i will say this, Sting/Vader > Sting/Flair as far as match quality goes.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> vivalabrave is a MYTH.


He's a myth who reps me regarding things I posted half a year ago and forgot everything about.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> I've had a change of mood and now unmotivated to do my review, but i will say this, Sting/Vader > Sting/Flair as far as match quality goes.


Sting/Vader matches are all great imo, love the whole series, played so well by both men, exactly how you do a big monstor/babyface feud.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> I've had a change of mood and now unmotivated to do my review, but i will say this, Sting/Vader > Sting/Flair as far as match quality goes.


no question about that.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

After a brief discussion the other day, I decided to go back and watch both both HHH/Flair PPV matches from 2005 to finally put to bed which I prefer.

*Taboo Tuesday Steel Cage*

I loved the build up and promo for this match, really well executed. Definitely one of my top 5 promo packages from WWE I think. So the match is about to begin, and wait, this is for the IC title? Lol didn't even recall that. After some opening chops from Flair we then get HHH GOATing it with a superb heel control segment where he completely beats the shit out of Flair. It really is gruesome. After Flair got some quick and early offense in, HHH is basically like "fuck this" and just goes all out from the start with a big spinebuster before bringing the cage into use by repeatedly throwing Flair into it before grinding his face on it. Of course, Flair being Flair he's busted open almost instantly. HHH then removes his kneepad and drops his knee onto Flair's now crimson mask a few times, all the while wooing and mocking Flair as he does it. Awesome stuff, Flair not being able to keep up with the younger, stronger HHH as he looks in over his head at this point. HHH goes to escape but Flair catches up and both men get caught on the ropes. HHH then grabs a chain from somewhere at the top of the cage and begins to use it as a weapon on Flair, first to prevent him locking in the Figure Four and then a couple of big right hands with the chain wrapped around it. HHH then tries to win with the ultimate insult by locking Flair in his own Figure Four and Flair sells well and struggles to escape while repeatedly swearing and giving HHH the finger. :lol He does escape and then when HHH tries to lock it in again, Flair shoves him into the cell and HHH is now busted open. 

Flair now gets a second wind and begins to show HHH why he's the dirtiest player in the game with classic Flair antics like thumbs to the eye, big low blows, biting and even the 'testicular claw' as Joey Styles puts it. Flair smartly targets HHH's left knee where his infamous quad injury occurred. With both men bleeding profusely Flair locks HHH in the Figure Four. After HHH finally escapes the hold Flair goes to the top rope and actually connects with a move! I recall being as legit shocked as ever watching this live when Flair's top rope shenanigans didn't end badly :lol Flair tries to escape through the door but The Game stops him, but not before Flair drags a chair into the ring and rings HHH over the head with it three brutal times, before finally escaping the cage for the win.

This match actually jumped up *1/4** on this re-watch, obviously great stuff with an awesome story being told. The younger, fitter HHH in complete control early on and looking to finally prove he's overtaken his mentor, before the wily veteran comes back, proves that he's still got it and gets the win. Both men bled buckets and this really was a brutal match which the fans really appreciated by applauding both men after. *****1/4*

_*Survivor Series Last Man Standing*_

Originally I had this match slightly above the cage match, but let's see if it holds up. HHH doesn't wait for Flair to even get to the ring in this one and just attacks him on the ramp before he can even get his robe off. HHH attempts a chair shot almost straight away but Flair has a kendo stick. No fucking around in this one, both men want blood. The fight heads into the crowd before Flair is back body dropped back into the ring area before getting suplexed on the outside. HHH then searches under the ring and pulls out a screwdriver from a toolbox. He then proceeds to use the screwdriver to mangle Flair's face until it's completely red. Totally vicious and awesome heel work by HHH, Flair selling well as usual. HHH continues to stay in control and throws Flair to the outside before setting up the announce table. Flair drives him into the steel steps before HHH comes back and then taunts Flair on the mic. He then sets Flair up for the Pedigree through the table before Flair counters and back body drops HHH through the other announce table. Flair barely had enough strength to lift HHH but somehow that made everything seem more real and HHH took a real nasty bump.

Both men return to the ring after stopping the count and HHH hits a facebuster before bringing a chair in the ring, but Flair hits a low blow and used the chair himself. Flair's now on top and proceeds to bite HHH in a few places before working on HHH's left leg in a callback to their previous match, mostly smashing it against the ring post, before using a chair on it. Flair then locks in the Figure Four and HHH taps but obviously that's no use. HHH hits a clothesline and brings the steps into the ring and both men take a big shot to the head from the other. HHH then finally hits Flair with a Pedigree, but Flair breaks the count. HHH is visibly frustrated and hits another, but Flair's up again. HHH is pissed now and hits a third Pedigree and this looks like the end for sure, but Flair is up again, and not before giving HHH the finger. HHH retrieves 'the great equalizer' the sledgehammer, connects with a huge shot to Flair's notorious back and picks up the win.

Still an awesome match, I like how they didn't fuck around and got straight to it, since both these men really wanted to kill each other. Much more back and forth than the cage match and all the weapons used worked well in the context of the match. I still love the ending, Flair refusing to be beaten after multiple Pedigrees and HHH having to resort to using the sledgehammer. Aiming it at Flair's back was a nice touch rather than hitting him in the face with it or whatever. Still the same rating for me - *****1/4*

So after all that, I now have both matches rated the same. :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So for some reason I find myself watching every segment in the now nearly 13 month long feud between Triple H & Brock Lesnar. I need to find out just how many segments they actually appeared in together, and how much of the feud has been 'HHH Interview week one' 'Heyman Response week two', but I actually have to say that when Brock's around the segments are fucking gold as is everything Brock touches.

The WWE have really started to take a UFC style approach to their PPVs IMO and I think it's making the product succeed financially (which NOBODY SHOULD CARE ABOUT), but at the same time it's making the product fail quality wise which is always bad. 

GOD I can't wait to get to the Summerslam match...... Cena Vs Brock is still .. YEAH.

EDIT: Oh I'm SO fucking glad that another person appreciates the electric chemistry that is Ric Flair Vs Triple H. Ric Flair just so happens to be the greatest of all time, so put him with the greatest heel of his era and you have some magical chemistry right there. Flair's comeback in the cage match is so good that I had to bump it up a quarter of a star and I think it's a scenario where in the bloody face of Ric Flair exentuates the story that were trying to pull. The Best WWF/WWE cage match as far as I'm concerned, and I still have to watch the last man standing but there's little doubt in my mind that it'll hold up.

Hell, *Starbuck* has the cage at a near five star level, it's just head and shoulders above every cage match the company has produced in this era for sure.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I do hope it's a pin/submission strap and not a four-corner one. Four corners is kind of hard to make look really good.


Hansen/Colon & Sting/Vader demonstrated the ability to utilise the gimmick to its fullest extent (Hansen/Colon was a bullrope match but for arguments' sake is applicable) but both had the benefit of occuring during very personal and heated feuds. The Four Corners aspect needs a reason for the fans to become interested and immersed in the drama of each attempt. Making the match a #1 contenders match could go some way to alleviating that issue, since the feud in of itself hasn't played out yet to invoke the drama and intrigue that can add to a four corners variation of the strap match. Sting was beloved and Vader had been booked meticulously as someone Sting HAD to beat. Hansen brutally layed out Colon and had good booking in not having a decisive finish in their early matches, thus putting them in that environment added a new sense of danger and unpredictability which produced an electric atmosphere which coupled with the great work of Hansen & Colon to make each four corner attempt magnetic produced one of the best matches of the decade.

Sheamus/Henry by itself lacks that spark and emotional attachment to either character for a four corners stip to work. So hopefully they use the strap as a means to further injure the other and have the match revolve around the theme of brutal violence rather than continuous corner nearfalls. FWIW I do think Sheamus/Henry with the right booking could make great use of a four corners strap match, but this isn't the right context.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Finlay was a magnificent worker. Regal's great too, but Finlay.


^ agreed. Regal is the more expressive performer and definitely has Finlay bested in terms of facial expressions and conveying depth in his mannerisms. Just watching the Ohno match as a recent example of this alongisde the Ambrose matches should demonstrate Regal's frightening ability to portray authentic emotion with an incredible range. He's definitely a more expressive and entertaining performer in terms of his pantomine esque interactions with the crowd on top of his facial expressions, but as far as working holds, selling, pacing and creating an overall narrative and theme in a match is concerned Finlay trumps him imo.

Finlay has better offence, can work the mat more ruggedly and make it more of a struggle (though Regal is capable of this, he's just also at the same time more likely to work some intricate reversals as opposed to Finlay's more subtle Fujiwara esque counters), generally sells better and more consistently (though tbf this is probably the one aspect both could argue to excel at better than the other) and just manages to hold a match together with his structure and transitions in a more accessible way. Both are great talents though and sadly overlooked.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Why doesn't he post?


He's a man of mystery and intrigue, though I have it on good authority you can still reach him if you search in the right places.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched Rocky Maivia vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley earlier today. Thought it was a decent **1/2 match (which is alright for a 12 minute mid card involving two future legends). Rock was still learning and some of the execution of his moves looked awkward. Such as the dropkick and the DDT but it's expected because this match was 4 months after his wrestling debut. I liked the callback spot to their previous match on RAW in which Rock won by a roll up but this time HHH refuses to lose the same way and has control of the match untill Goldust assists Maivia for the victory. 

Not a bad match at all and as years went by, the Rock's and HHH's chemistry got better as they had a great ladder match in 1998, had a couple of solid matches in 1999 and then produced classics in 2000. I personally think Rock's best opponent is Triple H, not Austin.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE TEXAN was sighted in the thread earlier?


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Top 10 matches, of 2000?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock's best opponent?

Chris Jericho.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Best match of 2000 is either Trips/Foley from the Rumble or Trips/Jericho LMS.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Best match of 2000 is either Trips/Foley from the Rumble or Trips/Jericho LMS.


Nailed it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock's best opponent is Austin I think.

And the best 2000 match I've seen so far is from Fully Loaded but not the match most will pick.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm guessing the Benoit match with either The Rock or Trips.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Jericho vs Benoit from Backlash 2000 needs more love.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Best of WWF In Your House - Disc 3*

*10-Man Tag Team Match
*The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog, & Brian Pillman) vs. Steve Austin, Goldust, Ken Shamrock, & The Legion of Doom - ****
_In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede - 7/6/1997_

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - *** 1/4
_In Your House: Ground Zero - 9/7/1997_

*Non-Sanctioned 8-Man Tag Team Match*
Triple H, Savio Vega, & The New Age Outlaws vs. Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack, & Chainsaw Charlie - *** 1/4
_In Your house: No Way Out - 2/15/1998_

*WWF Tag Team Championship
*Mankind & Kane (c) vs. The Undertaker & Stone Cold Steve Austin - *** 1/4
_In Your House: Fully Loaded - 7/26/1998_

*WWF Intercontinental Championship
*Ken Shamrock (c) vs. Mankind - * 1/2
_In Your House: Judgment Day - 10/18/1998

_*WWF Championship - Last Man Standing Match
*Mankind (c) vs. The Rock - *** 1/2
_In Your House: St. Valentine's Day Massacre - 2/14/1999_


- Decided not to watch the Candian Stampede tag again as I just watched a couple months ago. No doubt a great match but I don't seem to love it as much as others do.

- Not gonna lie, wasn't too fond of Taker/Michaels at Ground Zero. I didn't have a problem with the wild, chaotic nature in the first half of the match (which just felt like a long squash), but once Rude hit the ring to even the score with the brass knucks, I really didn't care about anything they were doing. It was all just overbooked ridiculous nonsense. Luckily it built to their HIAC match. I prefer Bret/Patriot from the same event.

- The 8-man war was interesting to say the least. Savio was a replacement for the injured Shawn Michaels. The first several minutes were completely all over the place. Crowd was lovin it. Then for some reason they just decided to revert back to a regular 8-man tag where you actually need to make tags. haha. Deflated the crowd quite a bit and lost almost all its steam, but it was still a fun match as a whole. The crowd really only seemed to care for Stone Cold, everyone else was just kinda there. Finish was way too sudden.

- I was pretty surprised by how much I enjoyed the Tag Title match. Really fun stuff with two long FIP segments. The tension between Taker & Austin was conveyed really well and there was some really good stuff throughout (Foley's bumping, multiple chokeslams & stunners, JR's commentary, the chairshot nearfall, etc.)

- Shamrock vs. Mankind was a chore to watch. Boring match, incredibly weird finish.

- Rock vs. Mankind is generally just a lot of fun. Rock's legwork is smart & Foley takes one hell of a beating per usual. Commentary was shockingly good too. (Y)

------------------------------------------------

*Overall Set Score: 8.5/10

*- For the most part this set is a lot of fun. Todd Pettengill was a great choice for a host & match quality is generally really consistent. Sure, there's a lot of repeats on here, but I'm judging it by what they gave us, not by what's on other sets and what's not. They pretty much covered all the classics from In Your House (excluding HIAC but that's everywhere), so we can only hope for a Volume 2 to dig a little deeper into the archives. 

*Best Matches on the Set

*1. Michaels vs. Mankind - **** 3/4
2. Final Four Elimination Match - **** 1/4
3. Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog - ****
4. Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett - ****
5. Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel - ****
6. Canadian Stampede 10-Man Tag - ****​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fantastic review as always Corey :clap.

The segment on the go-home show for Summerslam between HBK/HHH/Brock/Heyman has to be one of the best segments I've seen in a long, long time. Brock making Shawn his absolute bitch and putting him into a kimura (Shawn sold the F-5 on the two occasions he took it better than anybody else too) only for Triple H to attempt the save leading to Heyman stating that if HHH comes any closer that Brock will break the arm? Then Triple H does what he's told only for Brock to break the arm ANYWAYS? What a fucking devious segment, I remember it really hyping me up for the Summerslam match which I am going to watch... RIGHT... NOW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2000:

HHH/Foley RR: *******
TLC I SS: *****3/4*
HHH/Jericho FL: *****1/2*
HHH/Rock BL: *****1/2*
HHH/Foley NWO: *****1/2*
HHH/Rock JD: *****1/4*
Rock/Benoit FL: *****1/4*
HHH/Benoit NM: *****1/4*
HHH/X-Pac/Radicalz - Rock/Sock/Too Cool: ******
Armageddon HIAC: ******

DAT GAME with 8/10 best matches of 2000 :HHH. Wonder if Austin has something close to this dominance in 2001.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I miss how people used to take the F-5. Everyone would spin around and fall flat on their face, but now pretty much everyone has to kind of spin around then turn onto their back while they fall. Ironically because of Heyman who injured his neck taking it the normal way lol.


----------



## Very European (May 10, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Hansen/Colon & Sting/Vader demonstrated the ability to utilise the gimmick to its fullest extent (Hansen/Colon was a bullrope match but for arguments' sake is applicable) but both had the benefit of occuring during very personal and heated feuds. The Four Corners aspect needs a reason for the fans to become interested and immersed in the drama of each attempt. Making the match a #1 contenders match could go some way to alleviating that issue, since the feud in of itself hasn't played out yet to invoke the drama and intrigue that can add to a four corners variation of the strap match. Sting was beloved and Vader had been booked meticulously as someone Sting HAD to beat. Hansen brutally layed out Colon and had good booking in not having a decisive finish in their early matches, thus putting them in that environment added a new sense of danger and unpredictability which produced an electric atmosphere which coupled with the great work of Hansen & Colon to make each four corner attempt magnetic produced one of the best matches of the decade.


I hope they book it around the theme that's been teased throughout the fued so far, with Henry playing the role of the alpha male who want's to assert his physical superiority at all cost and Sheamus playing the role of a sly cunning brawler with considerable power in his own right, baiting the rage blind Henry and choosing his moment to strike. Something akin to Ajax vs Hector.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I always liked Trips/Angle from UF, Nice overbooked fun. ***3/4.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Fantastic review as always Corey :clap.


Meh, not my best work but thanks. I get kind of lazy as I get towards the back end of these 3 disc sets as I lose interest and wanna move onto another project. Will eventually get around to watching the blu ray exclusives, gonna get through work later so I can get drunk tonight first.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/Foley is the undisputed MOTY for 2000.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

It's a tough call between Trips/Foley & Trips/Jericho. Jericho's babyface performance in the LMS match is one of the best i've seen, Foley's one was too but it didn't struck my hatred for The Game as much as the latter did. Trips's heel performances in both were top notch too. A hard one, indeed.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/Foley from RR 2000 is the best brawl of all-time, HHH/Jericho is nowhere near that match for me. I give a ****1/2 for the LMS match, and for the RR one a *****+, they really killed each other in that Street Fight


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

good stuff JE187 or Corey right ? only disagreement is I like hbk/taker GZ have it at ****, it was a good first bout between the two and great set up of the GOAT match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

imo hhh/y2j LMS >> hhh/foley rr00

EDIT: sorry for the double post :lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Best of 2000 is probably HHH/Foley. I have that at *******. I do really love the LMS with Jericho though, need to rewatch that tbh. Didn't Evan/KOK/Beast give that *******? Either way, HHH clearly the king of 2000. 

I also mark for his No Mercy match with Benoit. *****1/2*


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/HBK GZ, Taker/Lesnar UF & Edge/Matt SS are classic stepping stones of furthering a feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I should watch Edge/Matt SS again. Haven't seen it in years. Don't remember much about it other than it being super short and Matt taking some stiff shots to the face. A short Edge match AND brutality? Yeah I need to see it again .


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Best babyface performance? Jericho at FL 2000 against The Game, Jeff against Taker in a Ladder Match on RAW or Cena at RR 2007 against Umaga.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/Ambrose thoughts for those who have see it?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Not seen it but I'm assuming it's worth checking out? How much time does it get?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2 for Bryan/Ambrose. Dean looked very good once again in the ring and the ending was perfect, both Bryan&Ambrose looked strong. Nice match


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Not sure about star ratings but it definitely is worth checking out.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Very European said:


> I hope they book it around the theme that's been teased throughout the fued so far, with Henry playing the role of the alpha male who want's to assert his physical superiority at all cost and Sheamus playing the role of a sly cunning brawler with considerable power in his own right, baiting the rage blind Henry and choosing his moment to strike. Something akin to Ajax vs Hector.


Yeah Henry as the violent and seemingly unstoppable monster lashing Sheamus repeatedly with the strap and having Sheamus make constant yet unsuccessful attempts at a comeback should be the driving point of the match. Henry is at his best when he's allowed to look superlative and then progressively sell more and more to get over his increasing vulnerability and Sheamus excels at working underneath, bumping and selling his arse off and mounting strong comebacks. Can't see a situation in which the match disappoints given the respective strengths of both men playing into that of the other's style.



Srdjan99 said:


> HHH/Foley from RR 2000 is the best brawl of all-time


Not even close. Its not even really a 'brawl' so much as a hardcore match. Lawler/Funk, Lawler/Mantell, Lawler/Dundee, Funk/Flair, Funk/Hansen, Hansen/Colon, Dibiase/Duggan, Duggan/Sawyer, Chicana/MS-1, Chicana/Perro Aguayo etc are far better 'brawls' to me that truly capture the art of an authentic fight without relying on weapons. Not using the weapon usage to knock HHH/Foley, more elaborating on why it strays closer to a hardcore match than what I consider to constitute a brawl.



GOATAntics said:


> Best babyface performance? Jericho at FL 2000 against The Game, Jeff against Taker in a Ladder Match on RAW or Cena at RR 2007 against Umaga.


If we're talking purely from 2000-today, then Eddie vs JBL @ Judgement Day '04 feels like a contender to me. Cena vs Umaga, Cena vs Khali, Matt Hardy vs Finlay (6/22/07), vs Edge (Summerslam & Unforgiven '05), Mysterio vs Eddie (6/23/05), Benoit vs Austin Smackdown '01, vs Lesnar Smackdown '03, Christian vs Swagger (2/24/09) & vs Mcintyre Smackdown 7/30/11, Regal vs Ambrose 7/15/12 & Masters vs Mcintyre 5/13/11 all also feel like acceptable answers.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Bryan/Ambrose thoughts for those who have see it?




Good TV match, better than Bryan/Ryback. ***


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I was talking between the three but all time, Magnum's performance against Tully in their infamous "I Quit"/Steel Cage Combination match can't be counted out.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Best babyface performance? Jericho at FL 2000 against The Game, Jeff against Taker in a Ladder Match on RAW or Cena at RR 2007 against Umaga.




HBK @ SS 02 > anything else.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> HBK @ SS 02 > anything else.


No. Trips's Heel Antics was THE PERFORMANCE in that match, Shawn looks like he was just running with the motions, It's understandable though considering it was his first match back.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best babyface performances? Steamboat in just about every match he had . Human Cage match against Vader might be a standout. God I adore that match. Steamboat basically playing the part of Rocky Balboa was awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan's performance against Morishima deserves recognition as a GOAT face performance.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> No. Trips's Heel Antics was THE PERFORMANCE in that match, Shawn looks like he was just running with the motions, It's understandable though considering it was his first match back.




That's why tho IMO. First match for HBK in 4 years to put on that kinda performance was just amazing. Best hbk/trips match. I also agree with HHH heel antics. Incredible. 

****1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker - No Mercy 2002 (Hell in a Cell)*
- Had to rewatch to refresh my memories and it still holds up pretty well. Lesnar does a great job working on the injured hand and Taker's comeback attempts were all done pretty well. Why they chose the right hand when it's Taker dominant one is what I don't understand. It draws criticism from some detractors, specifically when Taker used that hand to chokeslam Lesnar but I don't really see the issue. It's adrenaline plus he went back to selling the injury again. It was also pretty cool to see Taker do a top rope elbow drop and a suicide dive. Another good part is that they didn't just turn it into a finisher-fest because it's inside the cell. Plus Taker's Last Ride was protected a bit when Lesnar used the rope to break it instead of kicking out. Really not sure what I should give it in the end, going back and forth between a half and three quarters. ★★★★½ is what I'm sticking with for the moment.

*Randy Orton vs Triple H - Unforgiven 2004*
- A match that I've been one of the only supporters of. On a rewatch, it doesn't hold up quite as well but is still decent yet suffering from a few notable things. Firstly, the crowd is horrible. They are dead for nearly the whole match and only pop for like a second whenever Orton hits a big move. (further evidence that he _was_ over contrary to the belief that he wasn't) Then I have to say it's a pretty slow match, slower than I remember it being. HHH controls a large portion and it's mostly some okay leg work. I don't really like HHH's Ric Flair 2.0 character but I guess the leg work goes with being the heel. Orton also has a pretty good face performance as the young, up and comer trying to prove to his former boss that he can hang with him. The slaps and the spit were both pretty nice additions early on. He also sold the leg work pretty well, never forgetting about it even when hitting a move requiring them (like a dropkick). Another problem is the horrible, overbooked finish. Orton looks strong in defeat but it did his face run no favors to lose his first big defense. Thankfully, he bounced back later on but here they have no clue how to build him up as a star. ★★★¼.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> I was talking between the three but all time, Magnum's performance against Tully in their infamous "I Quit"/Steel Cage Combination match can't be counted out.


Oh if we're counting all time:

Terry & Dory Funk vs Abdullah The Butcher & The Sheik '77 & '79 series in All Japan. The matches that got Terry as beloved by the Japanese as any native wrestler. Amazing work on his part.
Backlund vs Slaughter 3/21/81
Lawler vs Funk 3/23/81
Sangre Chicana vs MS-1 9/23/83
Rock n Roll Express & Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd (Morton's performance as the bloodied and battered resilient babyface is perhaps his finest hour)
Duggan vs Dibiase 3/22/85
Magnum vs Tully 11/28/85
Lawler vs Dundee 12/30/85
Sangre Chicana vs Perro Aguayo 2/28/86
Ricky Morton vs Flair Great American Bash '86
Windham vs Flair BOTB II '86 & Worldwide '87
Fantastics vs Midnight Express 4/26/88
Steamboat vs Flair Chi Town Rumble '89
Flair vs Funk Great American Bash '89
Kobashi & Kikuchi vs Can Am Express 2/25/92
Steamboat vs Rude Beach Blast '92
Sting vs Vader Superbrawl III '93
Flair vs Vader Starrcade '93
Dustin Rhodes vs Vader Clash Of The Champions '94
Misawa & Kobashi vs Kawada & Taue 6/9/95 (both Misawa and Kobashi are mesmerising. Misawa as the phenom and unchallenged ace forced into fighting a 2 on 1 onslaught when Kobashi is incapacitated and bravely lasting longer than any other man could and Kobashi dragging his body over Misawa's lifeless body as he lies prone on the mat to spare him additional punishment)
Danielson vs Morishima Manhattan Mayhem II & Man Up '07
Jacobs vs Whitmer, I Quit Match 3/1/08

There's a lot more but I'll leave it to others to add in additional performances.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I guess so. Taker/Lesnar deserves special mention too, That blade job and That undying (which eventually died, ) perseverance, just shows who graduated from Babyface Dynamics 101. :lmao.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker - No Mercy 2002 (Hell in a Cell)*
> - Had to rewatch to refresh my memories and it still holds up pretty well. Lesnar does a great job working on the injured hand and Taker's comeback attempts were all done pretty well. Why they chose the right hand when it's Taker dominant one is what I don't understand. It draws criticism from some detractors, specifically when Taker used that hand to chokeslam Lesnar but I don't really see the issue. It's adrenaline plus he went back to selling the injury again. It was also pretty cool to see Taker do a top rope elbow drop and a suicide dive. Another good part is that they didn't just turn it into a finisher-fest because it's inside the cell. Plus Taker's Last Ride was protected a bit when Lesnar used the rope to break it instead of kicking out. Really not sure what I should give it in the end, going back and forth between a half and three quarters. ★★★★½ is what I'm sticking with for the moment.
> 
> *Randy Orton vs Triple H - Unforgiven 2004*
> - A match that I've been one of the only supporters of. On a rewatch, it doesn't hold up quite as well but is still decent yet suffering from a few notable things. Firstly, the crowd is horrible. They are dead for nearly the whole match and only pop for like a second whenever Orton hits a big move. (further evidence that he _was_ over contrary to the belief that he wasn't) Then I have to say it's a pretty slow match, slower than I remember it being. HHH controls a large portion and it's mostly some okay leg work. I don't really like HHH's Ric Flair 2.0 character but I guess the leg work goes with being the heel. Orton also has a pretty good face performance as the young, up and comer trying to prove to his former boss that he can hang with him. The slaps and the spit were both pretty nice additions early on. He also sold the leg work pretty well, never forgetting about it even when hitting a move requiring them (like a dropkick). Another problem is the horrible, overbooked finish. Orton looks strong in defeat but it did his face run no favors to lose his first big defense. Thankfully, he bounced back later on but here they have no clue how to build him up as a star. ★★★¼.




Lesnar countering the tombstone into the F5 was epic. Also heyman was gold in that match " We're losing Brock!" "What are you doing? You crazy!"


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> *Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker - No Mercy 2002 (Hell in a Cell)*
> - Had to rewatch to refresh my memories and it still holds up pretty well. Lesnar does a great job working on the injured hand and Taker's comeback attempts were all done pretty well. Why they chose the right hand when it's Taker dominant one is what I don't understand. It draws criticism from some detractors, specifically when Taker used that hand to chokeslam Lesnar but I don't really see the issue. It's adrenaline plus he went back to selling the injury again. It was also pretty cool to see Taker do a top rope elbow drop and a suicide dive. Another good part is that they didn't just turn it into a finisher-fest because it's inside the cell. Plus Taker's Last Ride was protected a bit when Lesnar used the rope to break it instead of kicking out. Really not sure what I should give it in the end, going back and forth between a half and three quarters. ★★★★½ is what I'm sticking with for the moment.
> 
> *Randy Orton vs Triple H - Unforgiven 2004*
> - A match that I've been one of the only supporters of. On a rewatch, it doesn't hold up quite as well but is still decent yet suffering from a few notable things. Firstly, the crowd is horrible. They are dead for nearly the whole match and only pop for like a second whenever Orton hits a big move. (further evidence that he _was_ over contrary to the belief that he wasn't) Then I have to say it's a pretty slow match, slower than I remember it being. HHH controls a large portion and it's mostly some okay leg work. I don't really like HHH's Ric Flair 2.0 character but I guess the leg work goes with being the heel. Orton also has a pretty good face performance as the young, up and comer trying to prove to his former boss that he can hang with him. The slaps and the spit were both pretty nice additions early on. He also sold the leg work pretty well, never forgetting about it even when hitting a move requiring them (like a dropkick). Another problem is the horrible, overbooked finish. Orton looks strong in defeat but it did his face run no favors to lose his first big defense. Thankfully, he bounced back later on but here they have no clue how to build him up as a star. ★★★¼.


Agreed, with the Brock/Taker rating. The funny thing is, it was even the best match on the card. Kurt and Benoit Vs Rey and Edge, was.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I to have Taker/Lesnar HIAC at *****1/2*. Orton/HHH *****. It's ok, not a match I'd be enthusiastic about revisiting.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm of the opinion that the Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian tag series considerably surpasses the efforts of Rey/Edge vs Benoit/Angle, though I realise I'm likely in the minority when it comes to that POV. For me the Rey/Edge vs Benoit/Angle matches were more workrate orientated and whilst likely amongst the best matches possible as far as workrate tags go, I far more prefer the southern tag formula centred matches that we got from Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian. Babyface shine sequences, sterling Goldust FIP segments, Jericho & Christian being cowardly little cheats and incorporating numerous STF traits into their control segments and generally strong finishing stretches. Some of the best tag matches WWE put on from the decade that weren't Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle or MNM from their debut to breakup.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Agreed, with the Brock/Taker rating. The funny thing is, it was even the best match on the card. Kurt and Benoit Vs Rey and Edge, was.


Don't think so. I rank the tag match ★★★★½ too but if I had to pick one, the HIAC is it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought the Trips/Orton rematch at The Rumble was way better. Orton sold the concussion difficulty very well and with Trips being his classic, asshole self, nothing prevented it from being a GOOD match. **** for me, And that's legit. :HHH2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm of the opinion that the *Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian tag series* considerably surpasses the efforts of Rey/Edge vs Benoit/Angle, though I realise I'm likely in the minority when it comes to that POV. For me the Rey/Edge vs Benoit/Angle matches were more workrate orientated and whilst likely amongst the best matches possible as far as workrate tags go, I far more prefer the southern tag formula centred matches that we got from Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian. Babyface shine sequences, sterling Goldust FIP segments, Jericho & Christian being cowardly little cheats and incorporating numerous STF traits into their control segments and generally strong finishing stretches. Some of the best tag matches WWE put on from the decade that weren't Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle or MNM from their debut to breakup.


Ive been meaning to ask about this series, and what the best matches are. I cant remember any if i'm honest :$


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Ive been meaning to ask about this series, and what the best matches are. I cant remember any if i'm honest :$


Wrote about each match a while ago in the old thread:



> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust, No Mercy (10/20/02)*
> 
> Pretty much a perfect sub 10 minute opening tag that really establishes the chemistry both teams have and the character dynamic that will dominate their future matches. They work in a nice subtle story of Jericho avoiding Booker at all costs which is reminiscent of the classic Dutch Mantell/King Cobra vs Bobby Eaton/Sweet Brown Sugar 7/19/82 where Eaton is a chickenshit heel the entire match with Mantell obsessed with getting his hands on him.
> 
> ...





> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust, Raw (12/2/02)*
> 
> Honestly this goes even less than No Mercy, but I loved it. Starts out as Booker vs Jericho but both partners get involved and it leads to an impromptu tag title match and the crowd are molten for Booker and Goldust and they work a frantic sprint match that gets you believing they're gonna win the belts. A couple of spots from No Mercy are replicated, namely the comical Shattered Dreams in the corner followed by Jericho being flung into Christian's privates leading to a great nearfall that the crowd groans at when it only gets 2. Couple of fun comedy spots like Goldust breaking up a huddle on the outside by bouncing their heads off of one another and Christian trying to emulate Jericho's rope knee strike and missing leading to Booker tagging in Goldust.
> 
> The finishing run however is where this really kicks into another gear. Christian and Jericho bump madly for Goldust who's incredible off the hot tag, and Christian in particular takes a spectacular looking bump off the ropes to the floor. They tease Booker and Goldust winning the belts on a couple of occasions, with Christians' attempt at using the belts backfiring and Jericho being saved from a pin by Christian yanking the ref to the floor. They've got the frantic pace nailed to a tee and the crowd are invested in everything and it leads to a simialr finish to No Mercy with Jericho using the belt and lionsault combo to pin Booker behind the ref's back. The perfect 7 minute tag to get across the cowardly nature of the champions and Booker and Goldust as the team the crowd are dieing to see win the belts. Great setup for the Armageddon Fatal Four Way with Jericho & Christian defending against 2 teams they've screwed over in the past few weeks.





> *Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust, Raw (12/23/02)*
> 
> Best match of the series so far imo. Gets around 15 minutes and they work two FIP segments as well as Jericho & Christian being arguably their most dastardly so far in their quest to regain the tag belts. Whole theme of the match revolves around Goldust being called out by Jericho as the weak link in the chain and they work it wonderfully into his opening shine segment, his FIP segment and the finishing run with constant teases that Jericho will outwrestle him at the most crucial of times.
> 
> ...


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@WOOLCOCK

What'd you think of Eddie's babyface performance against Brock at NWO?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:clap for WOOLCOCK and those reviews, ALWAYS one of my favorite reads when I want to take a gander at a match.

Taker/Lesnar in the Cell is something else, but I'll pimp the hell out of the Unforgiven match simply because around the web I've seen people throw less than two stars at it on a consistent basis, which is rather sickening. Personally I think that match destroys even the Ground Zero match in it's purpose for setting up a return match at a future date, as Taker is the first real danger that Brock has encountered causing Brock to dig deeper inside of himself to try and pull out his amateur wrestling experience to dismantle Taker, who is clearly different than anything else that Brock has combated in his early career.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> @WOOLCOCK
> 
> What'd you think of Eddie's babyface performance against Brock at NWO?


Been a while since I saw the match but I remember thinking it was a pretty great showing on Eddie's part. Played the calculating and tenacious babyface employing a rigorous gameplan to trouble the physically superior Lesnar and showed great heart with his perfectly timed counters to give the fans hope. His performance three months later however vs JBL laps his performance at NWO though. That's just a definition of heart, courage and incredible resiliency on Eddie's part. Not just the insane blood loss, but the overall beating he took and the story going in of Eddie looking to avenge his mother and his heritage after having JBL attack both.

Thought of a few more overlooked babyface performances:

Rockers vs Powers of Pain 1/15/90
Eddie & Jericho vs Faces of Fear Nitro 2/24/97
Pillman vs Rude & Flair '90
Marty Jones vs Dynamite Kid '83
Steve Grey vs Cliver Myers 11/22/85
Eddie & Tajiri vs Team Angle 5/22/03 (one of Eddie's finest performances of a glittering career)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thankyou Wooly


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'll pimp that Eddie/Y2J vs. Faces of Fear tag until the end of time. One of my all time favourite TV matches.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

@WOOLCOCK

I know i seem like a bother, , but your posts are an absolute joy ride. Opinion on Ric's babyface performance against Trips at Taboo Tuesday?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Thankyou Wooly


No problem. I watched 'em in December so hopefully the links are still on youtube/dailymotion. If you need help deciphering the two Raw matches (though I'm sure the dates were included in the tags on dailymotion) then I'll help out there.



FluxCapacitor said:


> I'll pimp that Eddie/Y2J vs. Faces of Fear tag until the end of time. One of my all time favourite TV matches.


I prefer Rockers/Powers of Pain from 1/15/90 as far as 10 minute david vs goliath tag team matches go, but that Nitro tag is excellent. Faces of Fear are perfect as the monsters swatting away the brave babyfaces and they work a great variety of speed vs power sequences.



GOATAntics said:


> @WOOLCOCK
> 
> I know i seem like a bother, , but your posts are an absolute joy ride. Opinion on Ric's babyface performance against Trips at Taboo Tuesday?


Probably Flair's best performance since Starrcade '93 vs Vader. That, the Big Show ECW Title match or the Edge TLC match on Raw are what I immediately think of when it comes to deranged and lunatic middle aged Ric Flair. He was amazing in the Cage match which I immensely prefer to the Last Man Standing match. Bled like a pig, had some great dirty and sly tactics to cause any amount of pain to HHH as he could and just perfectly captured the aura of an insane and blood thirsty individual out to hurt his ex friend regardless of the damage he'll do to himself in the process. Sold everything from HHH in a really great way, though given his age at the time its hard not to react sympathetically and agonisingly when seeing him take the beating he did in that match.

Final underrated babyface performance mention, DDP vs Golderg @ Halloween Havoc '98. Goldberg always had promise to deliver a very good-great match if he had someone to cover the intangibles and subsequently build to his explosive offence. In DDP he had a guy who was excellent at creating a narrative which tied into every sequence of the match and which saw Page find elaborate ways to counter and contain Goldberg before seeing his plans repeatedly fall apart. It made Page look like the most heroic and likeable guy to root for to see him attempt such a brave outing against a monster like Goldberg without making Goldberg a heel or lessen his impact and presence as a huge babyface. One of the most smartest and well worked matches by Page to create a formula that exentuated all of Goldberg's positive attributes to create the absolute best match he could ever have.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

:clap, WOOLCOCK deserves an OSCAR-equal award for his written work. Perfect stuff, man.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I don't think it's a stretch to say Cena is better worker than say Ziggler or Rhodes, But as the lol gifs realize, People let the hate blind them into oblivion.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena is one of the best wrestlers from the WWE, but his stalness is bigger then his talent


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I certainly don't think that it is out of whack to say Cena is better than Ziggler, Rhodes, or many other great workers. It isn't even unusual to say that Cena is one of the best workers in the company. However, I firmly believe that if other wrestlers had the same opportunities and platform that Cena has, they would have just as good, if not a better catalog of matches than Cena. Ziggler would actually be one of those guys.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WAIT.

Somebody actually SAID that Cody Rhodes & Dolph Zigger were better workers than John Cena?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've tried so so so so hard, I just can't get on the Ziggler train. I just don't see it. His bumping is down-right annoying albeit impressive and he can't create an interesting control segment to save his life. He isn't bad, but I wouldn't call him good by any stretch of the imagination. I really wish I could see what others see, or is everyone else just blinded by his ridiculous bumping?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ziggler is not a great in-ring worker, but the way he sells the moves makes it up for anything else. Shove him or shoot him, is the same result


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I can't think of a single time where Ziggler has carried his opponent to a good match. 

If he was as good of a worker as people say he is, he should have more memorable matches no?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just downloaded the entirety of Danielson's ROH championship reign. Now I've got two projects on the go simultaneously. For fuck sake 

In fact, why am I complaining? Nobody should ever complain about having hours and hours of Danielson and Masters to watch. NOBODY. EVER.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I've tried so so so so hard, I just can't get on the Ziggler train. I just don't see it. His bumping is down-right annoying albeit impressive and he can't create an interesting control segment to save his life. He isn't bad, but I wouldn't call him good by any stretch of the imagination. I really wish I could see what others see, or is everyone else just blinded by his ridiculous bumping?


Agreed. I absolutely don't see anything in Ziggler whatsoever. His bumping ability is impressive and he can have a good match but that's as far as it goes.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just started the Ladder Match DVD (part one). Never seen it, and apparently it came out before Benoit died because he's advertised on the cover. This must mean his RR 2001 match with Jericho is on it. 

Wow, starting with footage of Jake Roberts and the Big Daddy Ritter (aka Junkyard Dog).

Also, Lord Alfred Hayes SUCKS as a commentator. DAMN.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If you want an unblurred version if Benoit/Jericho, click my sig


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cody Rhodes being a better worker than Cena actually boggles my mind. I just can't even comprehend that tbh. Rhodes hasn't really ever impressed me in the ring. Moves fluidly but never seems to do much beyond executing his offence well. Doesn't stand out as a bumper, or in terms of facial expressions or adding mannerisms to his act. He doesn't do a lot wrong but doesn't do much to elevate him out of the level he currenly remains at. Granted he doesn't get much in the way of opportunity singles wise to construct a match longer than 10 minutes, but what I've seen hasn't really left me thinking he's a guy I'm being robbed of seeing more of the way I feel about Bryan, Cesaro, Mcintyre, Bourne, Christian etc.



FluxCapacitor said:


> I've tried so so so so hard, I just can't get on the Ziggler train. I just don't see it. His bumping is down-right annoying albeit impressive and he can't create an interesting control segment to save his life. He isn't bad, but I wouldn't call him good by any stretch of the imagination. I really wish I could see what others see, or is everyone else just blinded by his ridiculous bumping?


You're not alone. He bumps well and works finishing stretches in a way that balances nearfalls and counters in an authentic way but his biggest problem is making the first 2/3rs of his matches matter. I can't think of many Ziggler matches post '10 where missing everything before the babyface comeback and finishing stretch would severly affect your perspective on the match. His offence and control segments are largely dry and serve as nothing more than containing his opponent and slowing the pace considerably before the finishing stretch. Its not 'bad' but it hinders the quality the match can progress to since nothing really develops or flows which limits any story or narrative emerging.

As a face worker I think he has tremendous upside though. He'd certainly work better underneath and fighting for a comeback where he can utilise his athletic and energetic offence better without having to be responsible for controlling the match as the heel.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 John Cena Matches Ever (10-6)*


10.









John Cena, Ryback, & Sheamus Vs The Shield (Elimination Chamber 2013) : ***** 1/4*


9.









WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs JBL (I Quit Match; Judgment Day 2005) : ***** 1/4*


8.









WWE Championship - John Cena Vs Rey Mysterio(c) (RAW 7/25/11) : ***** 1/4*


7.









WWE Championship - John Cena Vs CM Punk(c) (Night of Champions 2012) : ***** 1/4*


6.









WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs CM Punk(c) (Summerslam 2011) : ***** 1/2*


OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY, We've reached the top 10. Coming in at number 10 is a match that probably nobody expected to be this high; that of the Shield Vs superfriends 6 man tag from earlier this year. Why is it this high on this list exactly? Well why wouldn't it be? Ryback turns in a career performance as the face getting the hot tag, Cena pulls off one of his best FIP performances ever, Roman Reigns shows how much of a beast he can be, while Rollins/Ambrose/Sheamus put in some fantastic work that really supplements the other performances and really lays the foundation for how the match is presented in the end. From a storytelling perspective I like this ALMOST as much as the 6 man tag from TLC but that would be pushing it, but to say that it's Cena's greatest tag performance ever wouldn't be stretching the truth whatsoever, it earned this spot for sure.

The JBL match is a personal favorite of mine and I truly do believe it belongs on this list for the simple fact that it might be one of the best orchestrated wars in WWE history, and a hell of a babyface performance from Cena to boot. JBL works what I felt was a wonderful control segment in bloodying the absolute piss out of Cena and making him his little bitch for the majority of the match, and that helped hammer in Cena's new character that he never gives up and he never quits. I mean FUCK, Cena takes a hell of a beating from JBL and lives to fight another day, pretty much a defiant moment in the career of Cena and helps to shape up his character for the future. The gold standard of the Cena-JBL rivalry.

BOOM, another TV match that's better than the HBK London match in 2007. Mysterio is one of the greatest of all time with a specialty being against a stronger opponent, and while Cena's bread and butter may indeed be against bigger men, he really showed how versatile he could work in this one as he threw Rey around and even got locked in the STFU by Rey at one point which made for a great moment. Rey working at the base of Cena and making that the focal point of his offense was tremendous with Cena's impeccable ability to sell shining through here. Another match that many probably never even expected here but what the hell, it's one of Cena's greatest matches ever against arguably the greatest worker in WWF/WWE history.

Could I possibly hump the proverbial legs of the John Cena vs CM Punk chemistry any more than I already have? The answer to that question is indeed yes. Cena just ups his game in the ring so much for Punk that it's actually insane, with a shining example of that being the Night of Champions 2012 match where he does crazy shit such as suicide dives and middle turnbuckle german suplexes to try and take out his biggest adversary ever. These two just define this era and have arguably the greatest main event chemistry ever with the NOC & SS encounters being two huge personal favorites of mine as well as completely different encounters all at the same time. NOC is more of a commentary on how far these two have come with neither man being able to take out the other to see who is truly the best in the world, while the Summerslam match seems to carry the same themes as the Money in the Bank encounter except I feel that the work in the match may actually be better than the aforementioned MITB classic. This certainly isn't the last we'll see of Cena vs Punk on the list (WINK WINK), but I feel that these two matches definitely deserve all the recognition that gets thrown their way for sure.

FINAL FIVE COMING TONIGHT.​


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

To follow on from my last post, albeit one that covers a separate issue:

Something that I've been pondering though is whether WWE are deliberately limiting matches on PPV that aren't the main event? If you think about it, aside from The Shield matches when was the last time a midcard/non title match on PPV that wasn't HHH/Lesnar got great time to build a match? When's the last time we've seen something like the Punk/Mysterio '10 series on PPV in the midcard? Punk's reign was very consistent on PPV in generally delivering a good-great match and the MOTN, but when you look at most midcard and undercard matches these days everything feels rushed and without much subtlety or build. There's no flow from beginning - middle - end. The opening just sees moves traded, the transition spot is typically basic and not very innovative or eye catching, the control segment rarely deviates from rest holds and condensed albeit stunted work before a typically fast finishing stretch. Ziggler's matches in particular are evidence of this. Nothing develops much in the way of a story or theme, such as Ziggler being outmanouevred or struggling to gain a foothold in the match, instead the opening is basic and tame, the middle struggles to add or develop a story and typically the finishing stretch is the only redeemable aspect of the match.

Its just something I've slowly observed when watching TV and PPV matches. Everything bar the main event feels rushed and a mere prelude to the main event which is given time to develop a structure and story and which sees things happening. Compare Punk matches and the way the match builds around each arc of the match to Ziggler, Hell No, Cesaro, Del Rio, Orton & co typically having matches with no discernable structure or story. It feels very Hogan era esque in that the main event is given every advantage to stand out as the best match on the card, with everything before it struggling to develop into a great match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cody Rhodes being a better worker than Cena actually boggles my mind. I just can't even comprehend that tbh. Rhodes hasn't really ever impressed me in the ring. Moves fluidly but never seems to do much beyond executing his offence well. Doesn't stand out as a bumper, or in terms of facial expressions or adding mannerisms to his act. He doesn't do a lot wrong but doesn't do much to elevate him out of the level he currenly remains at. Granted he doesn't get much in the way of opportunity singles wise to construct a match longer than 10 minutes, but what I've seen hasn't really left me thinking he's a guy I'm being robbed of seeing more of the way I feel about Bryan, Cesaro, Mcintyre, Bourne, Christian etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


very very interesting observation, I have noticed it especially with ziggles that much of his matches seemed rushed and this is coming from a HUGE ziggler guy, I think the last time he has a match that developed nicely was his BR 10 with bryan


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

great review as well KOK or Brock incarnated :lol, didn't except EC 13 tag to be that high, I have a sense of what the top 5 is just not the order. I just have a question for everybody ? does anybody love the punk/cena feb 13 as much as him ? just a want to know as I know its gonna show up :lol


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

:mark: @ Mysterio/Cena making the top ten. Excellent match and potentially even top 5 for Cena imo.



redskins25 said:


> very very interesting observation, I have noticed it especially with ziggles that much of his matches seemed rushed and this is coming from a HUGE ziggler guy, I think the last time he has a match that developed nicely was his BR 10 with bryan


Like I've said, its just a casual observation over the past year and a half. Even back in 09/10, you had Jericho/Mysterio, Punk/Mysterio, Punk/Orton, Mysterio/Rhodes, Christian/Swagger, Bourne/Jericho etc. Matches that were in the undercard but given sufficient time to construct a structure and story and move at a sensible pace.

Now it seems the style has been altered with only the WWE Title and Shield matches being afforded time to produce a conventional PPV match. Obviously lowercard matches typically act as filler and are relient on working quicker matches whilst the bigger matches on PPV have a slower build, but the midcard in particular really feels robbed of sufficient time to produce a match that can steal the show. I can't think of one Ziggler match on TV/PPV since the Mysterio series that had a natural story and flow as opposed to largely a collection of moves before a finishing stretch. Even the Bragging Rights Bryan match had more of a faster pace and saw them working 50/50 as opposed to a typical babyface/heel match.

Look at Punk's matches last year as well as Bryan/Sheamus & Sheamus/Show to see how matches were structured to progressively accentuate and build a story that would dictate the opening and middle before culminating in the end and then look in comparison to Ziggler/Orton, Orton/Del Rio & Sheamus/Del Rio which feel rushed and without the same regard and build in comparison.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Now THAT's an interesting question; WOOLCOCK'S top five Cena matches ever :mark:.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Mysterio/Cena is so awesome, though I'm still kinda disappointed they didn't have that at Summerslam and give it another 5-10 minutes. I always felt the ending felt a little abrupt. Seriously, give that another 10 minutes of the same and you're looking at something *****3/4* I think.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Now THAT's an interesting question; WOOLCOCK'S top five Cena matches ever :mark:.


Cena/Lesnar Extreme Rules '12
Cena/Punk Money In The Bank '11
Cena/Umaga Royal Rumble '07
Cena/Michaels Wrestlemania 23
Cena/Mysterio Raw '11

Big fan of Cena/HBK Raw in London '07, Cena/HHH NOC '08, Cena/Khali Judgement Day '07, Cena/Show Smackdown February '09, Cena/Orton Summerslam '07, NWO '08 & I Quit, Cena/HBK vs Batista/Taker NWO '07, Cena/Angle No Mercy '03 as well. Cena/Punk on TV in '11 was also pretty consistently great. Can't recall much about Summerslam '11. NOC '12 was excellent prior to the finishing stretch which felt a bit of a letdown and not paced as well as MITB '11.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

A Shield match in the top 10 *John Cena* matches? I don't think I agree as that match was much more about The Shield's performance. I think when it comes to the top 10 Cena matches it should be matches where a lot of credit can be attributed to Cena, and in multi-man matches such as The 6 man tag with The Shield Cena's role wasn't that big. Matches like Cena/Umaga from RR 2007 are matches where Cena deserves a lot of credit for, but I imagine that match will be your top 5 anyway.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i just watch CENA/UMAGA LMS last night for the first time and am still amazed how good it was, top 4 cena match for me


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> If you want an unblurred version if Benoit/Jericho, click my sig


Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! :mark:


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Top 10 CHAMP :cena2

1. Cena/Punk - Money in the Bank 2011
2. Cena/Brock - Extreme Rules 2012
3. Cena/Punk - Raw (Feb. 2013)
4. Cena/Edge - Backlash 2009
5. Cena/HBK - Raw (Apr. 2007)
6. Cena/JBL - Judgment Day 2005
7. Cena/Punk - Night of Champions 2012
8. Cena/Angle - No Mercy 2003
9. Cena/Orton - Breaking Point 2009
10. Cena/Umaga - Royal Rumble 2007


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena/Lesnar is OVERRATED. Good god. It was good but not top 5 for cena matches. 

Cena/HBK WM
Cena/HBK RAW
Cena/Umaga RR
Cena/Punk MITB
Cena/Punk NOC
Cena/JBL JD 05
Cena/Edge TLC 
Cena/Orton NWO 08

All those are better IMO. Again not saying cena/lesnar wasn't good because it was I just think it gets too much love. Cena showed a way better "comeback".vs umaga. Id throw Cena/lesnar in my top 10 cena matches tho. 


It REALLY goes to show you how great of a monster heel lesnar really is. CENA GOT CHEERED IN CHICAGO FOR GOD SAKES! (I was in attendance)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Cena/Lesnar is OVERRATED. Good god. It was good but not top 5 for cena matches.
> 
> Cena/HBK WM
> Cena/HBK RAW
> ...


:dazzler


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I loathe the Cena/Edge TLC tbh. Feels like everything I detest about those matches. Overly elaborate and contrived spots with lengthy setups which take away from the flow of the match. Sheamus/Morrison TLC '09 is everything I look for in a singles ladder orientated match tbh. Smart usage of the weapons, excellent long term selling by Morrison, well timed comebacks and the big spots were few and far between. 

Cena/Lesnar saw one of Cena's best selling performances, coupled with smart timing on his brief comebacks and an aura of legitimate violence I've never really felt in a WWE ring thanks to Lesnar. It was brutal, engrossing and a perfect representation of Cena's formula against monster heels. It had the uncomfortable and uneasy atmosphere that most Cena gimmick matches strive to replicate with little success.

I'd say its his best match of his career though the Punk MITB match & Umaga LMS are both very close. The Wrestlemania 23 match isn't that far behind and is excellent but those three stand out as the best of Cena's style for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another great post for the John Cena list, Evan. I completely disagree with the SummerSlam match making it, let alone that high and wouldn't rank the NOC match that high either but the JBL and Mysterio match making it is (Y). Not too crazy about The Shield match either but I can understand why others might like it.

I guess this will be your top 5:

vs Punk - Raw
vs Umaga - RR
vs HBK - WM23
vs Punk - MITB
vs BROCK - ER


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Interesting that Shawn/Razor from WM 10 isn't on the Ladder match set, but the Summerslam match is. Oh well, Summerslam is pretty nice. 

SHIT IT'S TIME FOR TRIPLE H VS ROCK AT SUMMERSLAM 1998. These entrances - Chris Warren and the DX band plus Rock's old school theme :mark::mark::mark:.

MARK HENRY FLICKING HIS TONGUE AT CHYNA :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ its on ladders 2


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Another great post for the John Cena list, Evan. I completely disagree with the SummerSlam match making it, let alone that high and wouldn't rank the NOC match that high either but the JBL and Mysterio match making it is (Y). Not too crazy about The Shield match either but I can understand why others might like it.
> 
> I guess this will be your top 5:
> 
> ...




Agreed, I thought cena/punk Summerslam 11 was a MASSIVE disappointment. Match had a slow pace to it. But they had to follow the 3rd MOTY (Christian/Orton no holds bared)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Jacobs vs Whitmer, I Quit Match 3/1/08


I haven't seen this yet, who was the babyface? I couldn't have been Whitmer, right? He is goddamn awful and I will in utter disbelief to the point of comatose if he puts out one of the most memorable babyface performances ever. Jacobs, rights? You're talking about Jacobs being the babyface!?!?!? 



GOATAntics said:


> I don't think it's a stretch to say Cena is better worker than say Ziggler or Rhodes, But as the lol gifs realize, People let the hate blind them into oblivion.


I'd say he absolutely smokes them both and it would be a stretch to say Ziggler or Rhodes are better than he is. Well, OK, Ziggler at certain points in his career was better (like 2010), but Cody? Really? Who thinks Cody's better than Cena? Is Cody better than the Usos?



FluxCapacitor said:


> I've tried so so so so hard, I just can't get on the Ziggler train. I just don't see it. His bumping is down-right annoying albeit impressive and he can't create an interesting control segment to save his life. He isn't bad, but I wouldn't call him good by any stretch of the imagination. I really wish I could see what others see, or is everyone else just blinded by his ridiculous bumping?


I agree with most of this. His bumping is amusing and I give the guy credit, but he sort of bumps the same for every opponent, big or small. I remember a GIF where R-Truth simply delivered a punch and he turned around like 200 degrees. I started to like his stuff in 2010 but then he gets higher on the card and he has really annoying ways of working big matches. Weird back-and-forth matches that I can;t really explain. I didn't like the Sheamus or Orton matches he had last year on PPV because they felt so dry and confusing.

Also his 'I Gotta Make This Guy Look Good/Show the World' fake babyface bullshit gimmick is really stupid. If he's going to act like that at least turn the guy into an actual babyface.

I think he is a pretty good worker but I'd put many guys in the company above him.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I haven't seen this yet, who was the babyface? I couldn't have been Whitmer, right? He is goddamn awful and I will in utter disbelief to the point of comatose if he puts out one of the most memorable babyface performances ever. Jacobs, rights? You're talking about Jacobs being the babyface!?!?!?


Yeah Jacobs is babyface. Its part of an angle where Jacobs pissed off the owner of the company and I think he hires Whitmer as a mercenary to take Jacobs out. Whitmer plays the heel and the match strongly resembles Cena/Orton in terms of Jacobs being overwhelmed and the subject of an intense beating for the majority of the match before they work a really violent and brilliant comeback and eventual ending. Jacobs plays the resilient and tough bastard babyface to perfection and Whitmer is servicable as a guy out to brutalise, torture and eventually batter Jacobs to the company owner's delight.

FWIW I wouldn't say its a contender for best babyface performance of the decade, but it struck me as one that could easily be overlooked and forgotten when dwelling on additional suggestions and figured it wouldn't hurt to include it. Jacobs is tremendous in it, but the best babyface performances of the decade are ahead of him in this match.

I think Seabs linked it at the other place btw. I know I watched it off of his link, unless it was here when he did the second installment of taking media requests for a week.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Agreed, I thought cena/punk Summerslam 11 was a MASSIVE disappointment. Match had a slow pace to it. But they had to follow the 3rd MOTY (Christian/Orton no holds bared)


I thought Punk/Cena was fine. It's far from being their best encounters but it was still a good match. Their match on RAW two weeks after their Summerslam match is better though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I think Seabs linked it at the other place btw. I know I watched it off of his link, unless it was here when he did the second installment of taking media requests for a week.


I'm going to make a goodhelmet order today which includes that anyway.  I'll finally be getting the AWA comp, too. I was going to wait until I got the discs I bought from Cal, but it's taken eight months and still haven't come. Might buy some shit from slambamjam while I'm at it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh fair play  . Yeah I've got AWA, Buddy Rose & now the 32 disc Midnight Express comps to finally work my way through. May try some next week since I'll be on holiday in just under a month.

Can't wait for the mammoth Lawler comp to drop either. I know Goodhelmet is possibly the biggest advocate for Lawler as a worker so seeing him developing the ultimate career retrospective (55 discs fer fuck sake!) should produce something mouthwatering.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd say he absolutely smokes them both and it would be a stretch to say Ziggler or Rhodes are better than he is. Well, OK, Ziggler at certain points in his career was better (like 2010), but Cody? Really? Who thinks Cody's better than Cena? Is Cody better than the Usos?


I personally think that if you give Ziggler all of the opportunities that John has been given in his entire career, he'd have a chance to blow his performances out of the water. I see no reason to believe that it's impractical for that to happen... John is a decent worker sometimes, but far from astonishing. His execution looks terrible a lot of times, and he's far from a consistent performer. 

The only "great" matches I can remember that Cena had in all of 2012 were the ones with Punk and his match with Brock Lesnar. Maybe he had a few hidden gems here and there on Raw or something, but there was tons of filler over the course of that year that involved him. That's usually how it is when it comes to John though for me. 

Dolph isn't given many chances, but I do remember his matches with Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, CM Punk, Chris Jericho, Sheamus, and he even got a solid match out of The fucking Miz on Raw.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yep, Triple H/Rock is as great as I remember. Hunter puts on a really great face performance as Rock works on the knee (which was attacked on Heat). Rocky was really getting cheered here in MSG, surprisingly. I guess he turned face not long after this, before he joined up with Vince and Shane. Anyways, match is ****1/4.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

To watch hbk/hhh ss 02 or hhh/flair cage ? cant wait till finals week is over and I can go out and relax again


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Oh fair play  . Yeah I've got AWA, Buddy Rose & now the 32 disc Midnight Express comps to finally work my way through. May try some next week since I'll be on holiday in just under a month.


I was only going to buy 2000s stuff but a) I've been waiting for AWA b/c of Jerry Blackwell. And b) Mascarita Sagrada is calling me at slambamjam.

Other than that, I will get 2000s stuff to get my list together~



NO! said:


> I personally think that if you give Ziggler all of the opportunities that John has been given in his entire career, he'd have a chance to blow his performances out of the water. I see no reason to believe that it's impractical for that to happen... John is a decent worker sometimes, but far from astonishing. His execution looks terrible a lot of times, and he's far from a consistent performer.
> 
> The only "great" matches I can remember that Cena had in all of 2012 were the ones with Punk and his match with Brock Lesnar. Maybe he had a few hidden gems here and there on Raw or something, but there was tons of filler over the course of that year that involved him. That's usually how it is when it comes to John though for me.
> 
> Dolph isn't given many chances, but I do remember his matches with Daniel Bryan, Kofi Kingston, Chris Jericho, Sheamus, and he even got a solid match out of The fucking Miz!


What chance isn't Dolph given? He had World Title matches last year with Sheamus and they were destroyed by Cena's matches with Punk and Lesnar. I really don't care if a guy has main event matches or matches on TV. It makes no difference. Drew McIntyre did amazingly with what he got in 2010/2011. Ten minute matches on SmackDown/SuperStars and he completely nailed them and had matches better than Ziggler ever has. Those were barely 'chances' on par with World Title matches. I've seen Ziggler have World Title matches and they were ass-boring. I don't want him to have more of them. He's had opportunities to put on good matches, and has had good matches. We aren't talking about a jobber (or....:side who looked good on some squashes and then disappeared. HELL, talk abut McIntyre in 2010, ZIGGLER got that opportunity in 2010 and was good then too. I love the Masters match and I remember him carrying Kofi and Kane a few times. Throw in the Bryan and Kaval matches and that's opportunity to have good matches. Higher on the card isn't always = better opportunity. And it has little to do with how good a wrestler is.

I don't see how Cena is 'decent but far from astonishing', yet you're implying Dolph could be astonishing or something. I re-watched the Umaga LMS and the two Michaels matches and thought Cena looked really awesome. I cannot imagine Dolph getting the chance to work those matches and look as good as that. I won't speak for the future because who knows what'll happen. But could Ziggler have worked performances as good as the best of Cena? Fuck. No. If he could have I would have seen it by now. I think Chris Masters at his best possibly did. I think Evan Bourne at his best possibly did. Ziggler? No way.

Cena's execution isn't always the best, and he's inconsistent frequently, yeah. But I'd take Cena's execution over Dolph's. What does Dolph execute better than Cena? Is he really better at it? I'd also take Cena's GREAT matches and then OK ones over Dolph's good matches and then bleh ones. 

Cena's only 'great' matches in 2012 were v. Lesnar and v. Punk? What were Dolph's? Hell, how many matches in Dolph's career have been as good as that? None. He's sure as shit never had anything on par with the Lesnar match (most people haven't), and IDK if there's a Dolph match in history better than Cena/Punk at NOC. Has Dolph ever had a great match?

'_Wrestler A_ would be as good as _Wrestler B_ if _Wrestler A_ got the chances' is a discussion that isn't worth having, either. It's speculating. I could sit here and say Chris Masters could have been as good as Cena in the Cena role, but at the end of the day that didn't happen. I'd rather look at what actually happened.


That was way, way longer than I intended it to be.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*CM Punk vs John Morrison, Smackdown (6/26/09)*

Heard a lot of praise about this mini series in between the Punk/Hardy program and Punk's gradual regression back to his heel persona and based on this match the praise was warranted. Match is really well worked on Punk's end as he's still trying to maintain his rapport with the fans in spite of his cash in on Hardy and he opens with a sporting handshake to Morrison to continue the facade. Throughout though they slowly highlight Punk's frustration and deviance whilst playing it up as the nature of competition although we can see it originates through Morrison's resiliency. Little things like Punk not releasing holds until near the count of four, having a figure four scissors around Morrison's neck but directing repeated elbow strikes to the forehead and the great sequence where Punk attempts a sunset flip powerbomb to the floor, eats a knee to the throat and petulantly sweeps Morrison's leg from under him resulting in a nasty bump on the apron. Morrison was pretty good here as he hits everything well and works flawlessly in his role as energetic babyface seizing the opportunity to wrestle the champ and continually frustrate him and make him work harder than he'd have expected to and the fact Punk is so great at progressively struggling to keep a lid on his annoyance just adds to the character advancement of Punk. 

Morrison was a bit sketchy on his selling but it was a minor quibble as the one big instance was Punk executing a great boston crab counter to Morrison's running knee strike only for Morrison to use the leg on his subsequent comeback offence with little trouble. Still, there was a great subtle moment earlier where Morrison's neck had been briefly targeted by Punk and during a hope spot Morrison slides under the ropes to evade Punk and goes to run the ropes whilst holding his neck gingerly with his left hand and subsequently gets cut off by Punk. I really dug that. Finish is also a great way to advance Punk's character as they do a really great rollup sequence with Punk looking to have countered Morrison's rollup only to have Morrison shift his body weight and trap Punk's arms in a fluid sequence to win. Punk has this wonderful initial reaction where he chuckles as if to say 'well played' but again you can just see it as a fruitless act to cover his inner anger. This then leads to a post match handshake which Punk immediately transitions into a sudden GTS before again giving this beautiful reaction of frustration on his part where he sells it like a moment of petulance that he regrets the minute Morrison hits the mat. 

Great character advancement for Punk to perfectly build to the finish of the Hardy defence at The Bash as well as giving Morrison a big win in his summer push. Its a really great Punk performance in trying to play it straight as a face but showcasing instances of his opportunism and gradually cracking as Morrison refuses to be put away.


*CM Punk vs John Morrison, Smackdown (8/14/09)*

Another great installment of their mini program. Story is that after two defeats on Smackdown and with Summerslam only a week and a bit away Punk has vowed to beat Morrison and end this recurring nuisance once and for all. Punk is a full blown heel now and has done away with the facade in the June match, instead turning up the sleazy prick routine right up to eleven. 

Loved the opening and how they establish the theme of the match, which is Punk's strikes and general viciousness and dangerous fixation with hurting his opponents. They work a basic feeling out exchange before transitioning into a dual wrist lock exchange before Punk slyly kicks Morrison's leg from under him and instinctively stomps on his fingers and then kicks him square in the chest for good measure. Its long been said that Punk from his ECW run up until his heel turn suffered from the muay-tai gimmick as some of his strikes looked really tame, but I have to commend the presentation of his strikes here. Every little strike he threw had this premeditated and ominous force behind each one and they really got Punk over as this dangerous striker who could hit you from anywhere and cause serious repercussions without a second's thought. A really good demonstration of this was the transition spot here with Punk stalling on the outside and drawing Morrison to the apron before sweeping the leg, smashing his face off the apron, kicking him under the chin and then hitting a really nasty looking knee drop off the middle rope. Just made Punk look methodical, calculating and one step ahead but with an added sinister streak.

From here they work a really interesting control segment and delve into Punk's mindset. Throughout their side program Morrison has been a thorn in Punk's side, able to take obscene punishment and find ways to outsmart and outmanouevre Punk at every opportunity. Here Punk controls and grounds Morrison including blocking escapes from submissions to highlight his ability to control from the ground up but they time every Morrison comeback impeccably well. With worse timing it would have drained the flow of the match but instead Morrison continues to look like a guy Punk can never keep at bay for long and serves to heighten Punk's frustration and dangerous obsession in securing the win. Honestly felt like a late take on Eddie/Mysterio from '05 with a great balance between Punk controlling long enough to look assured and on Morrison's level but always on the verge of losing his grip on the match.

Finishing stretch is super with Morrison again looking to find ways to frustrate Punk who has a couple of really great opportunistic counters such as kneecapping Morrison to block a knee strike and then transitioning into a flash pin for a strong nearfall. Great spot as well where Morrison tries to fight out of the GTS, only for Punk to run towards the corner and ram Morrison's head off the buckle before hitting the running knee > bulldog combo for another nearfall. Another great demonstration of Punk's sinister side and reckless abandon in chasing the elusive win over Morrison before a well done finish to protect Morrison: Punk nearly loses after Morrison again manages to outsmart Punk by landing on his feet from a missed starship pain and executes a quick pinning attempt and then eats a knee strike when checking with the referee that it was only two before playing possum and crotching Morrison mid starship pain and landing a flurry of strikes to a helpless Morrison before dragging him to the middle of the ring, hitting the GTS and finally having bested his adversary. Beautiful post match dickead move from Punk as he casually elbows Morrison directly across the skull as he lies helpless.

Better than the June match for my money. It only goes ten minutes but they get across Punk's sinister side tremendously and in the process get across his desire to beat Morrison not only to serve as a message to Hardy but also to reaffirm any anxiety on Punk's part that this plucky youngster has got his number. Morrison gets to look super in defeat, but this is really about Punk's performance and descent into villainy and a great presentation of the threat this renewed Punk possesses to anyone who confronts him. Highly recommended.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

WGTT vs Mysterio/Kidman from Vengeance 2003 is so awesome. **** for sure, I wish WWE would rebuild da tag team division again.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> WGTT vs Mysterio/Kidman from Vengeance 2003 is so awesome. **** for sure, I wish WWE would rebuild da tag team division again.


Yup. Fantastic match. Just goes to show how awesome the tag team division was on the Smackdown side of things in 2003 along with Haas and Benjamin's consistency that year. 

You should also check out TWGTT vs Mysterio/Kidman 8/14/03. It also has Jack Evan 187's seal of approval as well. :


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Watching Big Show's Performance at HIAC 2012, I can definitely say his psychology of all things is one of the greatest of all time, Whether it's the deaf stares from across the ring, the methodical pace or the constant stalking of his opponents, He brings it. I would even say he's a better worker than Ziggler, Barret, Rhodes, Miz etc.

BIG SHOW IS UNDERRATED.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah so I just watched THAT.

Fuck the star ratings system to hell for a second and just give it a watch, it has to be one of the most dastardly segments I've ever seen on WWE television EVER.

BROCK man... Fucking BROCK.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah so I just watched THAT.
> 
> Fuck the star ratings system to hell for a second and just give it a watch, it has to be one of the most dastardly segments I've ever seen on WWE television EVER.
> 
> BROCK man... Fucking BROCK.


BORK DA GOAT


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love it when the two Kidman/Mysterio vs. WGTT matches are mentioned in this thread. Both are awesome *(****)* matches in the GOAT year ever for a brand. Some other tag favorites from that year that don't get enough mentions:

WGTT vs. Kidman/Mysterio 3/13/03 (The unmentioned match between these two)
Chris Benoit/Rhyno vs. Eddy Guerrero/Chavo Guerrero 3/13/03
Eddy Guerrero/Tajiri vs. Shelton Benjamin/Charlie Haas 5/18/03, 5/22/03, 5/29/03, 7/3/03
6-on-6 Tag Main Event 6/26/03
Kurt Angle/Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar/John Cena 10/2/03


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

BORK. :brock

That was wonderful. That chairshot Gowen took from Lesnar was fucking vicious. Gowen's mom looking on as she sees Lesnar dismantling Gowen was a nice touch on things to sympathize with Gowen. Tremendous heel work by Lesnar. Seeing Lesnar throw Brian Kendrick like a rag doll was awesome as well. It's always fun to watch Lesnar beat the piss out of people.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Brock standing at the top of the ramp with that sexy look on his face and then takes his shirt off!  

Fellas am I right? 
Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah.

You're right.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah.
> 
> You're right.


Alright 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> *The Top 100 John Cena Matches Ever (10-6)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Finally someone else praising the Summerslam match. That match gets overlooked because of it's superior match at MITB but that match was great! Probably even a better match than the MITB but the MITB had a better build and better emotion surround it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Brock's heel turn in 03 was awesome.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Everything Brock did in 03 was awesome, imo


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Triple H/Undertaker Mania 27 is quite brilliant. The big flaws are how they handled the finishers (sans the final Tombstone). They didn't build to any of them except the Last Ride. I didn't mind the pace or the downtime. They were both part of the story construct, and Undertaker got fucking destroyed. The finish and post-match are awesome too.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Their WM27 match deserves all the praise it gets, ***** to me.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah so I just watched THAT.
> 
> Fuck the star ratings system to hell for a second and just give it a watch, it has to be one of the most dastardly segments I've ever seen on WWE television EVER.
> 
> BROCK man... Fucking BROCK.


I enjoyed this too much then and still enjoy it too much now.  Reminds me of the Cena/Lesnar match, just with more brutality in less time. GOAT.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*****1/4* critically speaking


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*****1/2* for HHH/Taker WM27. I prefer it to the HIAC match. It definitely divides opinion, but I prefer the story being told in the first match hence why I prefer it. A few weeks back someone posted a link to a mammoth post on another forum that totally explained in my opinion why that match is so good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> *****1/2* for HHH/Taker WM27. I prefer it to the HIAC match. It definitely divides opinion, but I prefer the story being told in the first match hence why I prefer it. A few weeks back someone posted a link to a mammoth post on another forum that totally explained in my opinion why that match is so good.


And HERE is that superb WM27 Review i posted a few weeks back


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ah thanks Zep. Yeah that review is supreme.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is it a WM27 promo when Taker and Trips are in the ring and Taker goes to leave the ring and gives Trips a sly smirk? Love that bit.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Top ten WWE ECW?

Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy 8/19/08
Mark Henry v. Finlay 9/16/08
Chavo Guerrero v. Evan Bourne 10/14/08
Mark Henry v. Finlay 11/4/08
Finlay v. Matt Hardy 11/11/08
Jack Swagger v. Christian 2/24/09
Christian v. William Regal 8/25/09
Christian v. William Regal 11/10/09
Christian v. William Regal 1/19/10

Chronological order for the hell of it, and because I don't want to put it into goodness order (or whatever...'goodness order'). I only have nine there which is pissing me off because I did the list in my head before typing it out and I swear I had a tenth one. Oh well. Watched some of this recently and will have write-ups/'reviews' where I go into more detail posted hopefully tomorrow. Wrote most of it but I'm not in the mood to write the rest. Anyway about the list ~ Obviously I have to re-watch the 2006 Big Show run. Gotta see the Punk/Chavo feud, other Hardy/Henry, some tags and the rest of 2008. Punk and Morrison had a good match in 2007, but I didn't think it was THAT good. There's a Morriosn/Bourne that I know people love. I still gotta see the 2010 tag with Zeke and Kane and Regal and Christian that Cal thinks is the greatest match of all time. So yeah, lists 'n' shit?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Big Show/Flair ECW 2006 and Cena/Morrison ECW (Not sure what year, 2006 or 2007, I'm thinking) are great too.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Not sure about top ten, but I remember a pretty good Bourne Morrison match *I think*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I haven't seen Show/Flair in like five years. Needs another look for sure and would probably take the tenth spot. Cena/Morrison rings a bell but I don't remember anything about it. Maybe I'm confusing it with the Cena/Johnny Motherfucking Nitro/Ex-Britney Hubby bit.

@Hohenehim. 4/14/09? I've seen it talked about a lot but never watched it. I will one day. I should go through all of 2009 ECW after 2008 (if that ever happens)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Swagger/Christian title match is definitely #1, unless you count WWECW PPV matches?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Found it (Morrison/Cena 07 ECW).

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWabfzLa0Ok
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpwxVKpawLU

@Yeah1993

Have you watched Cena/Sabu from VEN 2006? If so, What's your general thoughts on it?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Summary of Cena/Sabu






Utterly forgettable.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Far out Ruiner ruins everything, . I thought Cena/Sabu was MOTN but the majority would disagree, for some reason?????


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

EDIT: Fuck. For some reason thought Cena/Sabu was at ONS 06. My bad 

Can't remember shit from Vengeance 06, tbh.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Earlier I felt like watching Cena/Lesnar again. But in a swerve it's the Backlash 2003 match I'm talking about. Thoughts on this? It's ok but nothing special IMO. Basically a big control segment by Lesnar displaying his power, before Cena has a segment where he busts Lesnar open and works on the head. Lesnar hits a few power moves but Cena comes back and tries to keep him grounded. Cena tries to use the chain but Lesnar hits the F-5 for the win. Meh, *****


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Far out Ruiner ruins everything, . I thought Cena/Sabu was MOTN but the majority would disagree, for some reason?????


Prefer Orton/Angle and Edge/RVD to it by far.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

But did you like it, C2D?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> But did you like it, C2D?


It was a'ight. Nothing special, pretty average.

4/10, not even in my top 1000. :bret


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

How many one on one matches did Angle/Orton have together in 2006? Could make for a pretty interesting series or it could be absolute shite.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> How many matches did one on one matches did Angle/Orton have together in 2006? Could make for a pretty interesting series or it could be absolute shite.


Three singles matches.

- Smackdown 14/4/2006
- One Night Stand
- Vengeance

They also had the Wrestlemania triple threat obviously and a few tag team matches before Wrestlemania as well as one in the second ECW episode.

They never produced anything GREAT but all of it is around the decent-good mark. The Edge/Orton vs Angle/RVD tag match from ECW 20/6 is worth a watch.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Orton/Rey/Angle vs. Trips/Cena - Saturday Night Main Event 2006 is deserving of a watch too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Undertaker vs Batista:

WM23 - ****1/2 - Still Taker's GOAT entrance IMO too.
Backlash - ****
SD Steel Cage - ***1/2
Cyber Sunday - ****1/4 - I used to have this above Mania, but its still as good, just the WM match gets better on every watch for me.

Have yet to make it to the HIAC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*The Top 100 John Cena Matches Ever: The Finale*


5. 










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Umaga (Last Man Standing; Royal Rumble 2007): ***** 1/2*


4. 










John Cena Vs CM Punk (RAW 2/25/13): ***** 1/2*


3.










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII): ***** 3/4*


2. 










WWE Championship - John Cena(c) Vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank 2011): *******


1.










John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules; Extreme Rules 2012): *******


Cue the haters. I haven't said too much about Cena Vs Umaga EVER but I suppose I'll get to saying that now; Cena's comeback in this match alongside Umaga's breathtaking control sequence is secondary to only one particular babyface comeback in the entire career of John Cena. To say that about a guy who's bread and butter is to be the face in peril and take a fucking beating is really impressive when you take in the entire scope of things. There's this really SICK samoan drop in this match that I legitimately thought broke Cena's injured ribs, they had me there to the point of where I'm buying into whatever they're selling me because I'm just so invested which rarely happens ever. Is it the match of the year from 2007 like everybody who isn't an Undertaker mark claims ))? No, but we'll get to that in a second.

Here's a pick that will leave a ton of people wanting to show up at my door with pitchforks and torches but i'll say this right now; John Cena Vs CM Punk from literally just three months ago is the greatest match in he history of Monday Night Raw. To ensure myself of how awesome it was, I watched it back to back with the likes of Owen Vs Davey Boy, the Power Trip tag, TLC IV, Bret Vs Kid, and a whole host of other candidates and it was a no brainer for me. What makes this match so great is that you can look at it for what it is on the surface (two biggest full time stars of this era seemingly ending one of the most prolific rivalries in company history, each not having the ability to put each other away and selling the match on desperation), or you can look deeper to see it as a commentary on the WWE main event scene as a whole; how much can be possibly suspend out disbelief when it comes to all of these false finishes? How many is too many? It's like the WWE main event style of false finishes and such PEAKED here, I mean just look at the debacle which happened about a month later in Cena Vs Rock, that's a fail of the WWE main event style if I've ever seen it. Yeah, this match is one of the greatest ever and I'm not afraid to put it up there with the best.

You remember how I said that John Cena Vs CM Punk would cause an uproar due to its placing as the greatest RAW match ever? Well how about naming John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels from Wrestlemania XXIII as the greatest WWE Championship match in Wrestlemania history and the hands down MOTY for WWE in 2007? This match is one of the most overlooked matches I have ever seen in my entire life from Shawn's heelish descent and veteran wisdom allowing him to get the better of Cena, Cena throwing bombs at the beginning of the match, all the way until the finish when they exchange finishers and Cena catches Shawn at a crucial moment to make him tap out for the win. There's something about the pacing of this match that just pulls me in every single time, with Shawn slowing things down and picking John Cena apart when he gets his openings. I'm not a big SPOT fan but the spots here were just fucking perfect with the piledriver on the steel steps being excellent in addition to the big springboard move that gets me every single time. I CAN'T be the only person who views this match as one of the greatest matches in WWWE history, can I?

John Cena Vs CM Punk from Money in the Bank 2011 is pretty much considered to be Cena's universal classic match, although when the credit gets thrown at this match it's usually for the wrong reasons; that being of the atmosphere mixed in with a hot storyline paying off in the best way. This match was deeper than that, as I felt that this match was about two polar opposites in John Cena Vs CM Punk going at it with Cena clutching onto his spot as the WWE Champion and essentially the defender of the WWE Universe, trying to keep it away from the electric CM Punk who is primed to embarrass everything that John Cena represents and believes in. This match is about DESTINY; whether it be CM Punk's determination ensuring that he fulfills his destiny by kicking out of everything Cena throws at him, or the realization by Cena during the climax of the match that there's no fucking way that Punk's losing this match and has to make a decision.... Will he cheat to win, or will he stick to his morals even though HE KNOWS there's no possible way he'll walk out with the title in this environment and defeat the seemingly invincible CM Punk at this point. It's just a brilliantly put together story, and the idea of Cena's morals ultimately costing him the championship is an excellent underlying story to this that never gets mentioned. At the moment I have this as my #7 match in WWF/WWE history and while it certainly was the defining match in Cena's career for a while; it's run at the top was fairly short.

John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar at Extreme Rules 2012.... What the fuck can I even say about this match anymore that I haven't already said in the past? Whether it be Cena's ultimate underdog performance or Brock's GOAT (not even fucking exaggerating when I say that either, it's the greatest) heel control segment, there's just so many little things that goes into this match that makes it feel so... Different. This isn't your traditional heel beats down face, face comeback story that WWE likes to pull; this is Brock MAIMING John Cena and attempting to end his career. Hell, Brock has Cena beat at one point during the match but he just doesn't give a fuck, he doesn't give a fuck about wins and losses at all, he just wants to seemingly murder John Cena. I could gush on all day about Lesnar's performance and how the shit that he did in this match was actually insane and non expectant of a part timer for sure; but I have to direct attention to Cena's babyface performance for a second. That babyface performance by Cena was something else, the way that he took Brock's stiff shots right out of the gate, the look on Cena's face that he's not giving up but that there's something different in the air tonight, that this is different. All of these little things add to the organic atmosphere that this match provides, whether it be Brock showing insane amounts of character in his little actions such as picking up the referee with one hand, or the referee stoppages that just show how bad ass Lesnar really is (his strikes are so vicious that they caused a referee stoppage merely seconds into the match). Please; shut the fuck up with your "JUST A TYPICAL CENA COMEBACK" bullshit, will you? The way Cena times this comeback isn't like any other of his ones from his entire career with a set sequence of moves leading to a victory; the deadlift power slam was a thing of fucking beauty with Cena channeling his inner Bob Backlund, while the ending chain shot & subsequent AA on the steel steps was merely Brock's overconfidence with wanting to you know, KILL CENA and everything coming to fruition and ultimately costing him the match. It's not just a match; it's a work of art that needs to be revisited time and time again as if somebody came to me and said 'Cena Vs Lesnar is the greatest match in WWE history', I wouldn't even be upset as it's pretty fucking close for me behind maybe TWO matches ever. Money in the Bank is one of the greatest matches ever and this match completely destroys that one which is insane just to think about, but this is the ultimate underdog Vs monster heel battle that you'll ever see and it's a fitting choice for my number one spot for all the right reasons.

Going to post the entire 100 in a spoiler shortly, but until then .....










*THE CHAMP IS HEREEEEEEEEEE!*​


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Undertaker vs Batista:

WM23 - ****.
Backlash - ***1/2- shitty ending
Cyber Sunday - **** 
Survivour Series: ****1/2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Awesome write up Evan, I don't think anyone was surprised to see Cena/Lesnar at #1. :lol Great point in the MITB match about Cena having to choose to either win by cheating or lose by keeping his morals. I thought the Umaga match would be a little higher but again, we all know the love you give to Cena/HBK from Mania. Great list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

More greatness from Evan aka KOK. (Y)

I also managed to get the order right when I predicted the top 5.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, the top five was EXTREMELY predictable as it featured four matches that I openly jizz about on a daily basis & another obvious pick.

I was going to do a top 25 for BROCK LESNAR a few months ago as he only has 104 Televised/PPV matches in his entire wrestling career, but around the half way mark I lost literally every single one of my ratings for his matches so a just stopped. Might go back and watch what I remember being awesome (which is like, all of it) and keep on truckin' with it as it wouldn't take me very long at all. 

For the record, I believe that Brock's 100 match career has more quality than most guys who have 300 - 500 televised matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Disagree with 3 of your top 5 for Cena lol .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, BROCK is super efficient when it comes to having a bunch of LEGIT matches in the short times he has been active.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Most of his TV matches are fairly short too, at least what I'm seeing so far. Just watched four TV matches of his back to back and it took me literally less than 12 minutes. He specializes in the SQUASH match and whenever he gets time, he tears the fucking house down.

It's one of those situations where it's quality vs quantity. I have no idea where I'd put Lesnar in a top 100 because his body of work is indeed ridiculously short (probably around 80 actual matches) but his ratio of great matches to matches worked is probably the best in WWE History.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Anybody know how many matches Scott Hall had during that very, very small run in 2002?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Anybody know how many matches Scott Hall had during that very, very small run in 2002?


 http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/scott-hall-147.html?year=2002

That website lists all the matches he had in 2002.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/scott-hall-147.html?year=2002

Fourteen .

BEATEN. FUCK.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

To follow up on the above poster's question, anyone seen anything of Hall's Japan run from around that time?


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

You motherfuckers work fast :lol Thx.

Any of the WWE bouts worth watching from that year?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've never actually seen his match against Austin from Wrestlemania, other than a gif of the Stunner sell. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say it's not worth watching?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, stay away from that match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I've never actually seen his match against Austin from Wrestlemania, other than a gif of the Stunner sell. I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say it's not worth watching?


Pretty match. Just a average match.

The nWo entrance was awesome though:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Most of Hall's WWE single matches in 2002 seem like squash matches. Such as Crash Holly, Bradshaw and Spike Dudley. His other three matches were against Austin (once at Mania and on RAW) and Rock.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wish more had come from that run. 

In other news, I highly enjoyed Bryan/Ambrose from SD. Bryan plays an excellent babyface in peril and Ambrose is just awesome as the unorthodox nutjob. Match was pretty stiff for WWE standards.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, it was a good match indeed. The Kofi interference at the end was random but at least the mid card champions are involved in a proper storyline with the Shield. Surprised Shield vs Team Hell No for the tag team titles hasn't been announced yet for ER. There is still one week left and I'm guessing Kofi and Team Hell No vs the Shield is set for ER.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Great Cena writeups from Evan. You gotta appreciate the passion that guy has for his lists. Such DEDICATION. And WOOLCOCK, well he's a fucking god. End of story. 


SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> WGTT vs Mysterio/Kidman from Vengeance 2003 is so awesome. **** for sure, I wish WWE would rebuild da tag team division again.





That's irrelevant said:


> Yup. Fantastic match. Just goes to show how awesome the tag team division was on the Smackdown side of things in 2003 along with Haas and Benjamin's consistency that year.
> 
> You should also check out TWGTT vs Mysterio/Kidman 8/14/03. It also has Jack Evan 187's seal of approval as well. :





GOATAntics said:


> Watching Big Show's Performance at HIAC 2012, I can definitely say his psychology of all things is one of the greatest of all time, Whether it's the deaf stares from across the ring, the methodical pace or the constant stalking of his opponents, He brings it. I would even say he's a better worker than Ziggler, Barret, Rhodes, Miz etc.
> 
> BIG SHOW IS UNDERRATED.





funnyfaces1 said:


> Love it when the two Kidman/Mysterio vs. WGTT matches are mentioned in this thread. Both are awesome *(****)* matches in the GOAT year ever for a brand. Some other tag favorites from that year that don't get enough mentions:
> 
> WGTT vs. Kidman/Mysterio 3/13/03 (The unmentioned match between these two)
> Chris Benoit/Rhyno vs. Eddy Guerrero/Chavo Guerrero 3/13/03
> ...


:cheer :hb

My universally plugged match is finally getting the love it deserves! And yes, Big Show is quite underrated.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I can see Rollins/Reigns vs Hell No and Kofi for Ambrose for US Title @ ER, or a three vs three for all the straps. Either way, Shield with all the gold plz.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mr. KOK really knocked that list out of the park. Really made me respect and appreciate Cena more than I did before, even if I am not a fan of his character. Any other lists out there on the level of his Cena/WM/WWE Title reviews? Love reading these write-ups and finding hidden gems that are often looked over.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Couple of thoughts of the John Cena LIST

Cena/Brock is rightfully #1. Five stars for me as well, and one of the best matches in company history.

Michaels/Cena is the best WWE Championship match in Mania history, fairly easily too, for me.

Also @ *Beast*, I think you should try and look up some old reviews of matches like the Mania 23, Punk/Cena etc. from -Mystery- (who in my opinion is the best match reviewer this site has ever had). His views are extremely similar to yours (and some to mine).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mr. KOK really knocked that list out of the park. Really made me respect and appreciate Cena more than I did before, even if I am not a fan of his character. Any other lists out there on the level of his Cena/WM/WWE Title reviews? Love reading these write-ups and finding hidden gems that are often looked over.


He did a top 75 WHC matches list too.

His Cena list has inspired me to do a top 100 for Randy Orton with the same style where pics are included. I'd ask him for permission before hijacking it, though. 

And since I'm almost finished, I might use the pictures/count down formula for my Top __ matches from 2006.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Spoiler: The Top 100 John Cena Matches Ever



1.	Vs Brock Lesnar (Extreme Rules 2012)
2.	Vs CM Punk (Money in the Bank 2011)
3.	Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII)
4.	Vs CM Punk (RAW 2013)
5.	Vs Umaga (Royal Rumble 2007)
6.	Vs CM Punk (Summerslam 2011)
7.	Vs CM Punk (Night of Champions 2012)
8.	Vs Rey Mysterio (RAW 2011)
9.	Vs JBL (Judgment Day 2005)
10.	w/Ryback/Sheamus vs The Shield (EC 13)
11.	vs Chris Jericho (SS 08)
12.	Vs Shawn Michaels (Raw 2007)
13.	Vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXII)
14.	Vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels (SS 2009)
15.	Vs Batista (ER 10)
16. Vs Batista (SS 08)
17.	Vs Randy Orton (NWO 2008)
18.	Vs Randy Orton (BP 2009)
19.	w/HBK vs Batista/Undertakr (NWO 07)
20.	Vs HBK vs Edge vs Orton (BL 07)
21.	Vs HHH vs Edge (BL 2006)
22.	Vs CM Punk (RAW 8/22/11) 
23.	Vs Umaga (NYR 07)
24.	Vs Undertaker (SD 7/22/04)
25.	Vs Triple H (NOC 2008)
26.	Vs HBK (RAW 1/12/09)
27.	RAW Elimination Chamber (No Way Out 2009)
28.	Vs Lashley (GAB 2007)
29.	10/12/09 HHH (RAW)
30.	2/17/09 Big Show (SD)
31.	Vs Chris Jericho (Arm 08)
32.	Vs Wade Barrett (HIAC 10)
33. Vs Edge (SS 06)
34.	Vs Kurt Angle (NM 03)
35.	Vs CM Punk (1/17/11 RAW)
36.	Vs Chris Jericho (Summerslam 2005)
37.	Vs Shawn Michaels (1/26/09 RAW)
38.	Vs Alberto Del Rio (Vengeance 2011)
39.	Vs The Undertaker (8/5/03 Smackdown)
40.	W/The Undertaker vs Degeneration X vs Jerishow (11/9/09 RAW)
41.	Vs Shawn Michaels (3/10.2008 RAW)
42.	Vs Chris Benoit (12/2/03 SD)
43.	Vs Batista (WM XXVI)
44.	Vs Big Show (Judgment Day 2009)
45.	Vs Orton vs HHH (WM XXIV)
46.	Vs JBL (JD 08)
47.	Vs Jericho vs Christian (VEN 2005)
48.	Vs Daniel Bryan (RAW 8/6/12)
49.	Vs The Miz (RAW 5/2/11)
50. Vs HHH vs Orton vs JBL (BL 08)
51.	Vs JBL (First Blood Match ; Extreme Rules 2008)
52.	Vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 4/8/03)
53.	Vs Edge (RAW 10/2/06)
54.	w/Evan Bourne vs Sheamus/Edge (RAW 5/31/10)
55.	w/HHH vs Rey Mysterio/Randy Orton/Kurt Angle (Saturday Night’s Main Event 2006)
56.	vs The Undertaker (Vengeance 2003)
57.	vs CM Punk (RAW 6/3/11)
58.	RAW Elimination Chamber (EC 2011)
59.	Vs JBL (Royal Rumble 2009)
60.	w/HBK vs Rated RKO (RAW 1/29/07)
61.	w/Sheamus/CM Punk/Evan Bourne/Kofi Kingston/Mason Ryan vs Swagger/Ziggler/Otunga/Del Rio/Christian/Cody Rhodes (RAW 10/3/11)
62.	vs Angle vs HBK (Taboo Tuesday 2005)
63.	w/HBK vs Rated RKO (RAW 2/26/07)
64.	vs The Great Khali (Judgment Day 2007)
65.	vs CM Punk (RAW 7/23/12)
66.	vs Edge vs Big Show (Wrestlemania XXV)
67.	vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio (Hell in a Cell Match ; HIAC 2011)
68.	vs CM Punk (RAW 11/23/09)
69.	vs Big Show vs Kane vs Chris Jericho vs Miz (Money in the Bank Ladder Match ; MITB 2012)
70.	vs Alberto Del Rio (Falls Count Anywhere ; RAW 09/3/12)
71.	vs CM Punk (RAW 11/12/12)
72.	w/RVD vs Shelton Benjamin/Chris Masters/HHH (RAW 5/15/06)
73.	vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 11/4/03)
74.	vs BROCK LESNAR (Backlash 2003)
75.	w/Mysterio/Steamboat/Hardy/Punk vs Edge/Kane/Hardy/Jericho/Big Show (RAW 4/6/2009)
76.	vs Edge (2/13/06)
77.	vs HHH (3/29/09)
78.	w/CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan/Chris Jericho (RAW 2012)
79.	vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2005)
80.	vs Shelton Benjamin (7/10/2006)
81.	vs Umaga (Streetfight 2008)
82.	vs HHH vs Orton vs Big Show (6/15/2009)
83.	vs CM Punk vs Ryback (Survivor Series 2012)
84.	vs Lashley vs Mick Foley vs King Booker vs Randy Orton (VEN 07)
85.	vs Wade Barrett (TLC 2010)
86.	vs The Big Show (3/30/2009)
87.	vs RVD (RAW 5/26/06)
88.	vs Chris Benoit (4/17/2003)
89.	6/22/09 vs The Big Show
90.	Vs The Miz vs John Morrison (Extreme Rules 2011)
91.	Vs Randy Orton (Summerslam 2007)
92.	Vs Shelton Benjamin (12/26/05)
93.	Vs Chris Jericho (2009)
94.	Vs Edge (3/2/2009)
95.	Vs Johnny Nitro (12/11/2006)
96.	Vs Jack Swagger (2009)
97.	W/HBK vs Batista/Undertaker (Raw 2007)
98.	Vs Edge (12/18/06)
99.	W/CM Punk vs The Big Show/Daniel Bryan (RAW 2012)
100.	Vs Kane (Elimination Chamber 2012)



You can have my formula Choke2Death, if and only if you admit your secret love for the Summerslam 2011 match between CM Punk & John Cena .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> You can have my formula Choke2Death, if and only if you admit your secret love for the Summerslam 2011 match between CM Punk & John Cena .


I'm too honest for that. 

But I think I've made it clear that I had the match rated pretty high when I first watched it when it took place and at first said it's as good as MITB. Then for a second time, it dropped down heavily and I reduced my rating by 1.5 or 2 stars. On the other hand, MITB still held up when I reviewed it a week ago.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Top ten WWE ECW?
> 
> Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy 8/19/08
> Mark Henry v. Finlay 9/16/08
> ...





Hohenheim of Light said:


> Not sure about top ten, but I remember a pretty good Bourne Morrison match *I think*


Yeah, Morrison/Bourne from 4/14/09 is the match everyone digs:



> *Evan Bourne vs John Morrison, ECW (4/14/09)*
> 
> Bossy little match here. Bourne continues to demonstrate his immense potential as a babyface worker and remind us why its a tragedy his backstage attiude is supposedly piss poor to keep getting suspensions on top of his injury woes. He bumps and eats everything here majestically and times his offence remarkably well and has the crowd constantly invested in everything he does. The apron bump off the leg sweep was a great transition spot and Bourne typically took it in disgusting fashion on top of the stiff as heck running knee from Morrison. Speaking of Morrison when in the heck did he become this violent? There's one spot on the floor where he channels Tenryu and punts Bourne seemingly in the eye. Yes I just compared John Morrison to Genichiro Tenryu and I don't feel like a twonk talking a load of cobblers, what pray tell is this?. Morrison grounds and controls Bourne well with a predominant focus on the neck and upper body. Striker made a nice observation in pointing out a subtle visual where Morrison deliberately turns Bourne's head away from his body to further injure it when going for a cover after the apron bump. Bourne's hope spots being cut off by Morrison are well timed and build well into the eventual comeback which has a couple of strong nearfalls and a good finish to protect Bourne in defeat. Great match.


I'd probably say that or Show/Flair would be worthy top ten matches. Not seen either Henry/Finlay match, nor the Chavo/Bourne & Finlay/Hardy mark: ) matches so shall definitely put them on tonight.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Cena/Brock is rightfully #1. Five stars for me as well, and one of the best matches in company history.
> 
> Michaels/Cena is the best WWE Championship match in Mania history, fairly easily too, for me.
> 
> Also @ *Beast*, I think you should try and look up some old reviews of matches like the Mania 23, Punk/Cena etc. from -Mystery- (who in my opinion is the best match reviewer this site has ever had). His views are extremely similar to yours (and some to mine).


Agreed vis a vis the Lesnar match being above Money In the Bank vs Punk. I adore both and think both possess worthy reasons for being Cena's best match, but the air of harrowing legitimate violence in the Lesnar match, coupled with Cena's finest hour as a babyface gradually winning the support of the hostile Chicago crowd and the timing on every brief comeback of his just elevates the match above the Punk classic. That final closing sequence felt like a big Lawler comeback circa '85 with Cena's passion and desperation emenating off his face and the crowd becoming unglued as Lesnar forcibly dragged himself off the ropes. Special mention to Lesnar's sensational facial expressions to put over Cena'a brief hope spots. The reaction to the Backlund deadlift slam on the steps and the chain shot were both mesmerising and captured Lesnar's character perfectly.

Agreed with Cena/HBK being the best title match at Wrestlemania as well. I know everyone points to Rock/Austin for that accolade but everytime I watch that I can't think of it as anything more than perhaps the definitive character study of an individual in Austin. Its a very good match and I understand why the magnifying atmosphere coupled with the Austin characterisation elevates it for many as the epitome of WWE Main Event wrestling, but I just can't get into much of the brawling and exchanges outside of Austin's work and the utilisation of past moves in his quest to regain the title.

Cena/HBK though, for me it captures the beauty of WWE's Main Event Style but the story and Cena's performance ensure it doesn't become something akin to a Michaels 'epic' that can become too convulted. Michael portrays the veteran who smothers and controls Cena with ease efficinetly, Cena's selling of the legwork early on is magnificent and I have no qualms about him gradually recovering (sure me and you in the past spoke about how it was more an early control segment on Michaels' part to advance the theme of him grounding and outwrestling Cena, rather than being the centre of his strategy as seen by him abandoning the legwork relatively quickly) and the finishing stretch then assuredly balances the awe inspiring visuals and counter heavy style with great timing and a smart pacing to tow the fine line between engrossing counters and repetitive and mundane counters.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I have realized 2013 has had a ton of quality shit this year, so I'm thinking about doing a Top 100 of the 2010's thus far towards the end of the year, so yea, HEAD'S UP


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What happened to THE TOP 1000 MATCHES EVER list?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Awesome write-up's KOK. Even if some of the matches/ratings you put are wrong (  ) your write-ups are amazing and always worth the read. Do a Top 100 Undertaker now! (If you haven't yet... fuck I can't remember any of your other lists).

Edit: I was gonna do a top 1000 WWE matches, but around number 200 I was really having some trouble and while I managed to make it to 300, I'm probably forgetting a ton of TV matches/there are many I havent seen. I tried using top 10's people would post and even requested some for certain guys awhile ago, but only a few replied. So it's on hiatus for the time being.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> What happened to THE TOP 1000 MATCHES EVER list?


I said on here probably about a month back that it was a hassle, but I still have my notebook with the stuff in it, but it is just a thing right now, but it will happen one day! Still want to do a list similar to KOK's but instead of Cena it would be Danielson, and then Top 100 of the 2010's, and Top 1000, and a few secret projects...

Thank god for only 8 school days left :cena3


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I want to come up with a project that I can stick to, it's just finding it. started and got a fair-bit through a Chris Masters Superstars project, but I wasn't really making a list and there was no end product so I lost motivation after watching about twenty-twenty five matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MKkvwJ4N7BI


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol:lol:lol

There's a video here where he calls himself an "IWC sensation".

What a fucking pathetic tool.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Am I the only one that absolutely fucking DESPISES Lesnar/Cena?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fandango said:


> Am I the only one that absolutely fucking DESPISES Lesnar/Cena?


 No, there is KO Bossy too.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Fandango said:


> Am I the only one that absolutely fucking DESPISES Lesnar/Cena?


I hate it too. People jizz over it cause Lesnar just kicks the crap out of Cena. When I saw the match getting 4 and half stars on here I lost all faith in Wrestling fans.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Big Z said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MKkvwJ4N7BI


Love how he has to get an Austin analogy in there somehow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ifVS2nE8c

:jaydamn


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Lesnar, one of the most dangerous men on the planet, beats the living shit out of Cena for 20+ minutes and all it takes Cena is a shot to the head with a metal chain and an Attitude Adjustment to end it? How am I supposed to believe that? 

Not to mention the constant interference in the match by the trainers who kept coming in to clean up the blood on Cena after he was legitimately cut open.


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

Fandango said:


> Lesnar, one of the most dangerous men on the planet, beats the living shit out of Cena for 20+ minutes and all it takes Cena is a shot to the head with a metal chain and an Attitude Adjustment to end it? How am I supposed to believe that?


the shot to the head with the metal chain part


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Also, piss poor booking by the WWE by having a money match like Cena vs. Lesnar on a throwaway, C list PPV like Extreme Rules.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

great stuff evan whatss up every one Happy mother days I wanted to write this yesterday but I got in a 3 am from a party and I was hammered ( my boy texted me this today saying I screamed wooooo every 10 mins, damn you :flair2 lol anyways)

HBk/flair wm 24
i personal favorite match of all time, everything you want in a match is here. It is masterpieces with the whole flair wants to prove he still got it and hbk whole "old yeller" angle. Crazy to see a late 50s year old man moving like he was and the character work from both is great. HBK getting the best match he could out of flair, and ending it with a iconic SCM
****3/4 I may rate it higher than most but my love for this match is huge


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Fandango said:


> Am I the only one that absolutely fucking DESPISES Lesnar/Cena?


I used to despise this match too, but I really started appreciated it when I realized just how well this match created that "surreal" vibe that we rarely ever get. I still think the decision to have Cena win this match is downright idiotic, but the ride all the way to the end was magnificent. Certainly an all-time classic.

I would love to do a big project with either Bret or Punk, but I do not have the writing skills to make a review worthy of either one of these two guys. Maybe a top 30 of DDP will do if anybody is interested.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

You know, I would love to see a write up of Mark Henry's best bouts from anyone. That'd be a fun read and something awesome to sit down and catch up on (the matches on the list)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> You know, I would love to see a write up of Mark Henry's best bouts from anyone. That'd be a fun read and something awesome to sit down and catch up on (the matches on the list)


Yeah1993.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Ranking the WrestleManias, of the RA?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i use to hate cena/lesnar er 12 also but I always heard people jizz over it here , I remember somebody told me to look beyond the actually wresting in the match and watch everything else. It has a certain feel, aura to it that is top notch and it just doesn't feel like you average match something more. It special and I ended up giving it *****

for cena

*****
cena/brock er 12
cena/punk mitb- although I have to see if it holds up

****1/2+
cena/umaga LMS( i may though ***** soon its that good)
hbk/cena wm 23

****1/4
cena/punk noc
cnea/hbk london


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Ranking the WrestleManias, of the RA?


With the assumption that the RA era is from 2002-2008, then:

19
24
22
20
21
23
18

All of them are great shows regardless of where they rank.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

21
23
24
22
19
18
20


----------



## Very European (May 10, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I used to despise this match too, but I really started appreciated it when I realized just how well this match created that "surreal" vibe that we rarely ever get. I still think the decision to have Cena win this match is downright idiotic, but the ride all the way to the end was magnificent. Certainly an all-time classic.
> 
> I would love to do a big project with either Bret or Punk, but I do not have the writing skills to make a review worthy of either one of these two guys. *Maybe a top 30 of DDP will do if anybody is interested.*


Would love to see it.


----------



## horrorfan_1984 (Aug 13, 2011)

there hasn't been a match in WWE on the level of Lesnar/Cena since it happened


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

summerslam 02s the best wrestlemania IMO


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ there hasnt been one over ****3/4, ***** are suppose to be rare


----------



## RealTalk (Jan 15, 2012)

Edge/Christian Vs. Perry Saturn/Dean Malenko from RAW, March 6th, 2000. ** 1/4. Short TV match with Saturn and Malenko working over Edge's leg for most of this short match. They work a quick pace, the Radicalz get the upset, the leg work is good and given the time it's an average tv match for this era. Terri(who managed the Hardy Boyz eight days before this at No Way Out) is on commentary for this and the camera focuses quite a fair bit on her. Tits draw ratings and therefore we miss some of the action. Maybe this is why TV mathces have picked up in quality over the last few years (along with more talented in-ring workers); More focus on the matches and less on T&A?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wrestlemania's from 2002-2007:

19
21
20
22
23
18


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^^ there hasnt been one over ****3/4, ***** are suppose to be rare


I have over 2000 ****3/4 matches and only 4 ***** matches


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

horrorfan_1984 said:


> there hasn't been a match in WWE on the level of Lesnar/Cena since it happened


Maybe in terms of hype, but I think Punk/Taker is a much better match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DDP and Sting had great chemistry in the ring, the '99 Nitro match being bloody awesome, and I recently watched the '98 match on Nitro, not quite as good but still a good match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I always have time for some TITS.

I don't care what you guys say, pretty much ALL the divas do it for me nowadays besides Tamina Snuka.

That bitch is nasty.

& There hasn't been a match on the level of Cena/Brock since 1997.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Wrestlemania 2002-2008 (Not really sure where I consider the Ruthless aggression era to be over. Was WWE PG by WM24?) Anyway:

19
24
23
21
22
20
18


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Undertaker vs Yokozuna Casket Match for the WWF Championship Royal Rumble (1994) ***

ADAM BOMB AND DOUBLE J SIGHTING

Revising my rating for Taker/Hogan from (I believe) **1/2 to *


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Wrestlemania 2002-2008 (Not really sure where I consider the Ruthless aggression era to be over. Was WWE PG by WM24?) Anyway:
> 
> 19
> 24
> ...




23 sucked IMO other then them 2 title matches: 

19
24
21
18
22
23
20


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Thank Satan they briefly mention the Clash of the Takers match instead of showing it in it's...glory (I guess).

Taker/Diesel WM match. Awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SpookshowTony said:


> Thank Satan they briefly mention the Clash of the Takers match instead of showing it in it's...glory (I guess).
> 
> Taker/Diesel WM match. Awesome.


Excellent big man match, esp for WWF and for Taker at the time, just two big fuckers hitting power moves and such, just how it should be. Nash hitting Snake Eyes was nice too, very underrated IMo.

Also, Nash saying into the camera "I'm the shit" as he was getting into the ring was great


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The battle of the Undertaker's vs the battle of the Kane's - which match was better? (or worse, lol)


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> The battle of the Undertaker's vs the battle of the Kane's - which match was better? (or worse, lol)




WM 14 for sure. Unfortunately most of they're matches didn't live up to the build. But 14 was terrific

We never ever saw taker get destroyed like that..... Ever. I believe it's a highly underrated match. Took 3 tombstones to finish Kane they made both guys look strong. I enjoyed NOC 2010 as well. 

As for they're worst? HIAC 2010. TERRIBLE.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I have never been fond of any Taker vs Kane match. However, I thought their match at Survivor Series: Deadly Games 1998 was good. I remember liking their match at Night of Champions 2010 also.

As for their worst? Hell in a Cell 2010 and their Inferno match at Unforgiven 1998 spring to mind. 



Tanner1495 said:


> I said on here probably about a month back that it was a hassle, but I still have my notebook with the stuff in it, but it is just a thing right now, but it will happen one day! Still want to do a list similar to KOK's but instead of Cena it would be Danielson, and then Top 100 of the 2010's, and Top 1000, and a few secret projects...
> 
> Thank god for only 8 school days left :cena3


Am I the only one who read this post in Ross's voice? :lol


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's irrelevant said:


> Am I the only one who read this post in Ross's voice? :lol


 No you're not. :lol


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Sweet, Friends love :mark:

Now I have thought of another project I will be providing for you guys over the summer, MARK GOAT HENRY's run from post draft 2011-injury 2012, HALL OF PAIN :mark:


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Excellent big man match, esp for WWF and for Taker at the time, just two big fuckers hitting power moves and such, just how it should be. Nash hitting Snake Eyes was nice too, very underrated IMo.
> 
> Also, Nash saying into the camera "I'm the shit" as he was getting into the ring was great



I think it's been a while since I last saw it, but wasn't this the first time fans saw Taker being taken cool2) to the limit? I'm currently crashing (at 5:30 in the PM :no, so another day for that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lol, I actually meant Undertaker vs Undertaker from SummerSlam 94 and Kane vs Kane from Vengeance 06.

Haven't seen the former but the latter felt like it was playing in slow motion.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SpookshowTony said:


> I think it's been a while since I last saw it, but wasn't this the first time fans saw Taker being taken cool2) to the limit? I'm currently crashing (at 5:30 in the PM :no, so another day for that.


Unless you count the Gonzales match


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Unless you count the Gonzales match



OH FUCK. FUCK that FUCKING "match".


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That whole Imposter Kane storyline was a mind-boggler. He went over the real Kane at Vengeance, but nothing came of it and the feud was ended.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, I actually meant Undertaker vs Undertaker from SummerSlam 94 and Kane vs Kane from Vengeance 06.
> 
> Haven't seen the former but the latter felt like it was playing in slow motion.




Kane vs Kane was a fucking joke. Let's have a Guy (luke gallows) who looks like a kid in a Kane costume be the imposter Kane. Looked awful . At least have the imposter Kane be jacked and 7ft tall. Fpalm


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Kane vs Imposter Kane...

:batista3 Why?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Swagger/Christian title match is definitely #1, unless you count WWECW PPV matches?


I'm not counting PPV matches. Even if I did, Swagger v. Christian is #1.




GOATAntics said:


> Found it (Morrison/Cena 07 ECW).
> 
> Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWabfzLa0Ok
> Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpwxVKpawLU
> ...


Haven't seen Cena/Sabu in a million years. Considering I like Cena now, and I've warmed up to Sabu a lot after I watched some 1996 ECW last year, I'm actually looking forward to seeing it again in 2027 or whatever year I watch it again.

Thanks for the links (Y)



Big Z said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MKkvwJ4N7BI


Uh, wow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jack D. Ripper said:


> I have over 2000 ****3/4 matches and only 4 ***** matches


Out of curiosity, can you list your 2000 matches at **** 3/4 please? That's a fuck ton of matches.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Awesome list GAME/King of Kings/BORK/Beast Incarnate/Evan can I call you Evan. Even if I don't agree with some of the order, the effort put in is admirable and the end result was very enjoyable to read. 

(Y)

I look forward to your next one whatever it ends up being.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Guys, guys, guys.... Call me Evan .

I have no sweet clue what list is next for me honestly, I'll probably post a top 10 worst Cena matches ever without a write-up because I mean... How can I passionately talk about how BAD something is.. Well.... Except Punk-Rock...UGH.

I completely lived the CENATION gimmick for like two months though. Listened to Cena when I was cruisin', wore some fruity pebbles esque T-shirts from time to time, and bashed The Rock in literally every conversation that I found myself in even if it had nothing to do with wrestling. I would go to the gym with BASIC THUGANOMICS blasting through my headphones and a SALUTE THE CENATION t-shirt on.... GEEKdom at it's finest.

Come to think of it, next list is probably going to be a top 25 BROCK matches or something seeing as how there have only been like 20 Brock matches I don't have rated at this point .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Glad that the Cena gimmick is over now 

Will miss these smilies though :cena3


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena isn't a gimmick. It's a way of life. #cenation

:cena :cena2 :cena3 :cena4 :cena5


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

:lol at that last one.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Watching backstage segments of HHH and JBL. It sucks we never saw a feud between them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

First batch of 2008 I watched. Including 2008 ECW!!!!!

Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy (ECW 8/19/08)
We got screwed at SummerSlam with a quick DQ match where Hardy hit the twist of fate in the first 30 seconds and Atlas interferes, so Hardy tries for it early a couple of times again. WWE figures they'll be nice to all of us fans and actually give us a potentially good and decently lengthy match, though. And these two blew 'good' out of the water. So my point was Henry countering the early twists of fate were neat. Since those twists didn't work, Hardy gets thrown around a bit (including an awesome one were he goes sort of shoulder/armpit first into the mid turnbuckle or something) before he trips Mark up and slams his leg across the apron-side part of the ring. What I absolutely fucking love about things like this is how the opponent is forced to move around Mark as he's not even human. Like, you see people put up a tent and have to manoeuvre around the tent and be careful about structuring it together. I get that sort of feel. They shift around this big monstrosity and try to carefully create their openings. I tried to think of an analogy involving Wipeout or the Japanese game show MXC (how Henry's opponents look so small, get tossed around in weird ways and stutter to face big obstacles), but couldn't nail it. So Hardy works the leg because he realises this match could actually not be ridiculously short, but at the same time if he works the leg right he could MAKE it short. Henry is as good at selling offense as anyone in the company. Not only does it look like he's in as much pain as you think he'd be in, but he can stand up and hit his own shit without blowing anything off. He throws some clubs and slams to create the littlest bit of distance and time between himself and Hardy. Once the part where Henry beats on Hardy with Hardy making his hope spots (which was always going to be ****3/4 - my favourite was Matt slipping out of the full-nelson and double-kicking Henry in the gut while on the ground), Henry still limps and puts over the damage Hardy's done. I love how Mark sold it less and less as time went on, so he didn't give Hardy anything to use as a bullseye if he gets on top. But you're never really on top with Henry; the most you get is a big flurry of offense which you can get a pinfall off of. Matt going to the mid-rope with elbows to a wobbly Henry before hitting a mid-rope bulldog is example of that. Matt realises the ropes worked for a second, so he goes to the top, and to my surprise he actually manages to hit the crossbody instead of it becoming a WSS. Hardy finally getting the twist of fate only for Atlas to pull him off again was RUDO, and the ref didn't see it this time so the match can continue. And it continues for about forty seconds until Henry gets his WSS in. See? You only have so much you can do on top of Henry. There is no way this could have been anything less than good and I meant it when I said they blew 'good' of the water. Million stars? Yes, this was one million stars.


Mark Henry v. Finlay (ECW 9/16/08)
At this point in my wrestling viewing these are probably two of my ten favourite wrestlers (Finlay *definitely* is), so I had to have some sort of expectation for this. They weren't unreal expectations, but they were expectations nonetheless. I watched this twice and it disappointed neither time. Henry automatically makes any match exciting by dwarfing the other man (and if he DOESN'T dwarf then other man, then we have a battle of FATTIES!), and his opponent has to move around him and find openings. Most of the beginning of this was that - Finlay dancing around Mark, trying to find openings, and when Henry punished him for it he gets back to dancing around. He can't afford to stay still. There's only so much punishment you can take from the strongest man in the world though, and a kind of subtle but awesome thing about this was Finlay would go down harder and further toward the ground each time he tried to make and opening. It wasn't paying off, and soon enough Mark had the match where he wanted it. Another thing that I found incredibly awesome was that Finlay was selling his mid-section most of the match - which Henry rarely even worked on. Mark had been clubbing Finlay, and stomping on him and all that, but once he STANDS on Finlay- pushing all of that weight on top of him - that's practically enough to injure a body part. And if that WASN'T enough to injure it, then Finlay's through-the-middle-rope shoulder thrust being countered into, well, being pushed from the apron into the announce table, is enough. What a great spot; Fit hits *one* thrust, and Mark goes 'well that's enough offense for you', and shoves him a few feet into the air. Finlay was selling the rib/back even when Mark would punch him in the head. And when Henry uses a bearhug and three body slams in a row, you can imagine. Finlay has a great hope spot where he dodges Henry who goes face first into the turnbuckle, and then fires away at his head. He's cut off again, but Henry goes for an elbow which he rolls out of the way of. I tell you, the sight of Finlay beating Henry in the face while Mark was blinded by the ring apron is way I watch the graps. Atlas and Horny get involved which could have sucked, but it creates another opening for Finlay, who whacks Henry's arm with the sheleighleigh. Now he has something to work on. That doesn't pan out, and because he's still selling the ribs, Henry puts another bearhug on, but Henry was selling the arm post-match (beautifully, btw) so it obviously did something. Finlay counters the bearhug with a sunset flip (that one's kind of hard to explain, but it was awesome - he pretty much climbs Henry), and Mark Henry in a sunset flip means he's going to go for a missed butt splash. ANOTHER OPENING FOR FINLAY! He rushes on top of Henry, doing those jumping butt-thingys of his own. The match doesn't last much longer than that and with his shitty ribs he isn't kicking out of the WSS. Man alive this is great. 


Chavo Guerrero v. Evan Bourne (ECW 10/14/08)
I have Taker v. Show LMS to re-watch and it's been a while since I saw Show v. Maywether, but as of now this is probably my WWE 2008 MOTY. They open up with some snug and tight looking grappling, the kind of Jamie Noble stuff that doesn't look like the two guys were watching tapes and just mimicking what they see for fun. Chavo had this really awesome headlock that he wrenched and tugged on; reminded me of Orton's chinlock in the 04 Benoit match. Bourne starts to stand up and fight back, so Chavo switches to an armbar, which gives Guerrero leverage from a different side. Bourne hits beautiful arm drags, has a spectacular 'LOOK NO HANDS' dive, and plays an excellent babyface. I really don't know what else WWE want from him. OK, so he looks like a skinny midget Patton Oswald dork with goofy faces and crappy finger poses. Ignoring that, what else do they want from him? In this match I found myself saying 'I don't see that very often' or 'I've never seen that before' on certain spots. The best one was Bourne going for a top rope hurricanrana and Chavo sprinting out of the way so Bourne goes ass-first into the turnbuckle and crashes onto the mat. Amazing spot. There was a cool Liger-like kappo kick from Chavo here too and a really good and different looking roll-up from Evan. Maybe it was the video quality I was watching, but I swear there was an Irish whip where Chavo tried to poke Bourne in the eyes but failed. If that actually happened that was amazing as well. Bourne gets to hit the rana he didn't earlier in the match (does it by jumping from the mat to Chavo's head while Chavo is sitting on the top rope), Chavo makes the 'positioning oneself for opponent's finisher' not look awkward, and the match comes full circle. All right sons of bitches this is a Chavo match and I don't know what there is possibly not to like about it. Well, he does the three amigos which I've always been iffy about, but Bourne counters the third amigo by kneeing Chavo in the goddamn head while being held vertically. Seriously great match.


Mark Henry v. Finlay (ECW 11/4/08)
I will take a stab in the dark and say Finlay and Mark watched their 9/16 match and thought they were working too light with other. 'We should hit each harder next time' 'Yeah, we should'. So this wasn't INCREDIBLY stiff, and part of it may have been the sucky quality I get these matches in, but man just everything here looked way nastier than the previous match. And they spend a decent chunk just clubbing each other so that makes it extra stiff and extra awesome. This is a #1 contenders match for Hardy's ECW Title next week, and Finlay is rushing to get this done as quick as possible. You know how this goes, though. Mark Henry is the fucking wall and Mark Henry is the fucking wall that cuts you off when you think you're about to get hot. Great spot where Finlay's doing the 'shoulder thrust through the ropes' things and Henry shoves a knee into his face. They both get to tackle limb work, but why just tackle limb work when you can tackle limb work after a great and possibly accidental spot? Like I said these two club each other, and on one of Finlay's Henry puts his arms up to block. With Mark having aeroplane turbine-arms, Finlay actually injures himself in the process of hitting Henry's block. Henry sees blood in the water and starts tearing away. The part where he was standing on it looked like it was going to send the arm directly through the canvas. Mark then takes a page of the Big Show v. Eddie Guerrero book and uses that 'I Don't Even Have To Try' one-arm armbar, with Finlay writhing in pain. Finlay's big break comes when Henry goes for the butt-splash in the corner (by using Fit as a step) like in their first match - which is his 'Ric Flair Goes to the Top Rope', so he misses - and lands awkwardly on his leg. It was a completely weird landing; he didn't land ON his leg really, I mean it looked like a regular ol' butt-splash miss, but he kind of caught his heel on the mat for a split second, so you buy that something in that utility pole he calls a leg was pulled. I kind of doubt they had it in mind for Henry to land like he did, but Henry sold the leg, and Fit realised it as the opportunity to not completely die (while selling the still-injured arm). He jumps it and starts throwing everything he has, at not only the leg, but at Henry's head. Henry injured his own leg, great, but while he's down, Fit may as well throw whatever he has at Mark's brain cage as well. This is his first real chance to get something going. Henry now needs space, so he recklessly chucks Finlay out of the ring and tries to get his leg back to form. He can rest while not having to worry about Fit resting up, with the beefy Tony Atlas wailing on him. We get Hornswoggle stuff before a sheleighleigh finish, yet none of that felt disappointing, and the strongest man on Earth chasing a midget around with a slowly healing leg couldn't possibly be anything but amusing. This was fucking super. I could watch this shit allllll day. If I were making Schneider Comp-like sets of matches I dug, this'd probably be on the first version. 2008 Henry isn't looking far off of 2011 Henry, and the two Finlay matches + Hardy match are almost as good as anything he did that year. I should really watch the PPV match these two got. 


Matt Hardy v. Finlay (ECW 11/11/08)
Both guys are babyface so there isn't a chance they will top the 6/07 masterpiece, but this was still plenty good. Bit of a split English crowd but you'll hear more boos for Hardy. Finlay gets the match in his favour and Matt tries to get the hell away from him in neat ways. There's a great moment where Finlay's bringing Matt up the steps and Matt pushes Fit so he flies off of the steps and into the barricade. We get some Hornswoggle crap like Horny going flying off of the apron and hurting his leg because Finlay threw Hardy into the ring post, but the midget was enough of a non-factor for this to satisfy and for them to have a great ending run. I have no idea what else to say about this, but it's very good. I feel like I'm not giving this enough credit and should watch it again. 


CM Punk v. Rey Mysterio (Armageddon 12/14/08)
I loved this live and haven't seen it since despite numerous times where I said I was going to re-watch it. With that said it does not hold up at all. I really think Punk was kind of worthless from 06 up until his heel turn. He did this neat thing here where he pushed Rey while Rey was on the top turnbuckle, Rey got caught in the 'tree of woe' and Punk started kicking. He had a cool submission or two as well, but fuck man I don't care about Punk aroudn this time at all. He was kind of boring and kind of vanilla and took kind of bad bumps (Rey sends him to the outside and he does the worst and least convincing 'runs three quarters of the ring and jump through the ropes' spot ever). Hell even on that tree of woe bit he ran into the corner all shitty and choreographed so Rey could move out of the way. He wasn't outright bad and neither was this match, but I just didn't care for either. Felt like they were going through the motions. The finish stretch wasn't anything to snicker at but during the meat of the match I just sat there thinking that it felt like nothing was happening, so I didn't care when the end run actually came. I'm guessing this must be how people who don't like lucha feel when they watch it. Honestly this holds up about as well as a Benoit/Angle finisher run.


William Regal v. CM Punk (MSG Hose Show 12/28/08)
This was the shit. Punk had a totally badass Misawa way of selling Regal's suplex (butterfly? exploder? IDR) and that kind of transitioned into Regal's offensive, so it made the spot look even more violent. Regal is master class. Cuts Punk off with vicious elbows and there's one spot where he just sees Punk in the corner of the ring and wails on him with knees and fists. His counter to Punk's knee/headlock/bulldog was great, and he puts over the GTS as something he needs to get the fuck out of quickly by throwing elbows like a nutter as well. I have to watch the Chavo and Umaga feuds (and the other Regal matches, for that matter) again but as of now this is the best 06-08 Punk in WWE match.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Come to think of it, next list is probably going to be a top 25 BROCK matches or something seeing as how there have only been like 20 Brock matches I don't have rated at this point .


YES brock:brock


----------



## RealTalk (Jan 15, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU

BORK BORK BORK BORK!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RealTalk said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbs64GvGgPU
> 
> BORK BORK BORK BORK!


:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

BORK

Watching Brock/Taker vs Big Show/FBI right now, Brock's bumping like a fucking beast for Big Show's offense man, they have some sick chemistry together. Can't wait to check out the PPV encounters again, mainly one of my all time favorite matches in the STRETCHER MATCH.

Haven't seen the Survivor Series match in a while, curious to see how it matches up against Hardy/Edge in terms of sub five minute matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

evan's list has made me want to go watch punk/cena mitb and raw 13 to see how they stand


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Do it, you won't regret it.

Decided to continue my 2005 PPV watchings with Unforgiven. The Flair segments are fucking awesome and Big Show vs Snitsky is really good... That's how far I am in this.... Going to post the PPV match rankings up to this point once I'm done watching this show as a whole (already saw the main event like last week so I'm not watching it again, fuck that).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Guys is cena/lashley from GAB any good? Worth a watch? I keep hearing some good things from this match. Never really been a fan of lashley tho.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

BORK'S Top 10 for me:

(***3/4)
10) vs. Taker Unforgiven 02
9) vs. Benoit SD December 03
(****)
8) vs. Big Show JD 03
7) vs. Angle WM19
6) vs. Rock SS 02
(****1/4)
5) vs. Angle SS 03
4) vs. Cena ER 12
3) vs. Eddie Guerrero NWO 04
(****1/2)
2) vs. Angle SD 03 Ironman Match
(****3/4)
1) vs. Taker NM 02

Edit: Cena/Lashley is great. ***3/4.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed it is.

Clocks in at #27 on my Cena list and just so happens to be one of the biggest carry jobs of Cena's career. How Cena combats Lashley's exceptional athleticism is excellent and how they manage to keep the face Vs face dynamic pure is fantastic. It's typical John Cena in 2007; kiling it in the squared circle regardless of the opponent.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Indeed it is.
> 
> Clocks in at #27 on my Cena list and just so happens to be one of the biggest carry jobs of Cena's career. How Cena combats Lashley's exceptional athleticism is excellent and how they manage to keep the face Vs face dynamic pure is fantastic. It's typical John Cena in 2007; kiling it in the squared circle regardless of the opponent.




Yep I'll have to check this one out. One of the few better cena matches I haven't seen yet.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Which ones HAVEN'T you seen that people talk about?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Which ones HAVEN'T you seen that people talk about?




Cena/lashley and cena/angle from NM 03.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So am I crazy or has 2013 so far been killing it in the ring? It seems as if everyone is motivated and from where I stand there are multiple *** and up matches a week, just super consistent stuff


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Definitely make a point in checking out both.

Cena/Angle from No Mercy is their golden standard together while Cena/Lashley is a phenomenal face Vs face match, see both ASAP. THEY FEATURE OUR REIGNING WWE CHAMPION, THAT'S ALWAYS A BONUS.

KERWIN WHITE (watching the only Kerwin White PPV match right now).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Big Show vs Snitsky is really good...


THANK YOU! I tried to convince people it ruled three years ago. Really awesome six minutes.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Snitsky is actually ridiculously underrated in the ring at times. Love his BIG MAN VS BIG MAN WORK.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Tanner1495 said:


> So am I crazy or has 2013 so far been killing it in the ring? It seems as if everyone is motivated and from where I stand there are multiple *** and up matches a week, just super consistent stuff


I remember for a few weeks, it seemed like every week was producing a serious MOTYC. Taker/Punk though has been far above anything else and I can't see anything on a regular Raw/Smackdown surpassing it (you never know though), but before that there were quite a few matches that were up there that I could've named the MOTY so far on any given day.

Edit: Show/Snitsky? Good? Only 6 minutes? Meh, I've got 6 minutes to kill. Any youtube/dailymotion link to it?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> BORK'S Top 10 for me:
> 
> (***3/4)
> 10) vs. Taker Unforgiven 02
> ...




Top 10 lesnar matches


1. Vs Undertaker NM 02 HIAC. ****1/2

2. Vs Angle SS 03. ****1/2

3. Vs Angle ironman SD 03. ****1/2

4. Vs Guerrero NWO 04. ****1/4

5. Vs Angle WM 19. ****1/4

6. Vs Rock SS 02. ****1/4

7. Vs Cena ER 12. ****

8. Vs Undertaker Unforgiven 02. ****

9. Vs Benoit SD ****

10. Vs Show. JD 03***1/2


Am I the only one who's bummed we never seen Lesnar/Kane? Woulda loved to see this, they've never had a match with each other.


----------



## Apex Predator (Apr 9, 2013)

Taker v.s. Brock in HIAC - Classic


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Any matches I should watch from last week? Wasn't able to really catch anything.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Kane/Snitsky is another series that can't be counted out, Great brawls all round.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/cena feb 13

So I in the begining had this match at ****, reason being I had the "these guys have wrestle one-one woth no stip about five in recent memory what more can they do that I haven't seen" mindset while watching. I thought its just another mitb or ss or noc redo just on raw and punk a mega heel now. So watching it in a new light it does go up for me. I like how it s the "final chapter" type, going all out for the last time(it may happen down the road again prob). They manage to up their games and pull moves we havent seen in both. Great great match ***** 1/2*

I have to watch mitb when am able , here my cena list with a few tweaks 
cena/punk mitb *****
cena/brock er *****
cena/punk feb **** 1/2
cena/hbk wm 23 **** 1/2
cena/umaga LMS ****1/4
cena/punk noc **** 1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Now that's certainly more like it.

Watching Matt Hardy Vs Edge in the Steel Cage right now, anxious to see how it holds up to it's HHH Vs Ric Flair counterpart merely one month later.


----------



## Apex Predator (Apr 9, 2013)

Brye said:


> Any matches I should watch from last week? Wasn't able to really catch anything.


Del Rio V.S. Ziggler.

Shaemus V.S. Barret.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Now that's certainly more like it.
> 
> Watching Matt Hardy Vs Edge in the Steel Cage right now, anxious to see how it holds up to it's HHH Vs Ric Flair counterpart merely one month later.




It definitely tops HHH/Flair. Matt and edges best match IMO. Very underrated.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Apex Predator said:


> Del Rio V.S. Ziggler.
> 
> Shaemus V.S. Barret.


Wow. Barrett/Sheamus is unexpected. Will give both a look. (Y)


----------



## Apex Predator (Apr 9, 2013)

Brye said:


> Wow. Barrett/Sheamus is unexpected. Will give both a look. (Y)


Anytime. Sandow V.S. Orton aswell.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Top ten for Lesnar is interesting.

1. v. Cena ER12
2. v. Benoit 12/4/03
3. v. Taker HIAC
4. v. Guerrero NWO04
5. v. Show JD03
6. v. Rock Slam02
7. v. Rey (SmackDown in 2003, 11/10 maybe?)

I forget the rest. Realistically the Angle iron man could be at #8 but I'd want to watch the entire Taker feud first before deciding.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the HOGAN/BROCK match, Yeah?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Best of WWF In Your House - Blu Ray Exclusives

**#1 Contender's Match
*Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - ****+
_In Your House 14: Revenge of the Taker - 4/20/1997

_*WWF Light Heavyweight Championship
*Taka Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher - *** 1/4
_In Your House: D-Generation X - 12/7/1997

_*WWF Championship
*Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Ken Shamrock - ***
_In Your House: D-Generation X - 12/7/1997

_D'Lo Brown vs. X-Pac - **
_In Your House: Fully Loaded - 7/26/1998_


- Austin vs. Bret is REALLY good. Bret instills some really great work on Austin's knee, which is what the entire match is built around. Injured knees. He completely removes the kneebrace and goes to town with chair shots, stiff kicks, and figure 4's around the ringpost. Austin sells the pain really well and has some great bits of desperation while of course bending the rules on every opportunity. Having his knee give out while going for a piledriver was a GREAT touch. The final sequence was really well done and it looked the match would've been over, then it ended in a dq. Not a huge problem as it sparked the continuation of the biggest feud of the year and Austin got his revenge by damaging Bret's knee. Shame this match gets overshadowed by their other 2 major encounters, cause this one is really damn good on its own. Better than the South Africa match too. (Y)

- Taka vs. Brian was a pretty awesome way to spend 12 minutes. The crowd was so into Taka, it's not even funny. Plus you got the commentary and heat based around Christopher being Jerry Lawler's son, so that was fun too. The actual match was good too, lots of good back and forth high flying action. Too Sexy misses a dive to the outside and busts his lip open on the guardrail which gives you some really awesome visuals as not only does it cover half his face in blood but it gets all over Taka's body too. Looks like these guys have gone to war. The finish was a tad bit sudden, but I'll buy it as Taka's bit of desperation to hit the Michinoku Driver after being slapped around and manhandled for several minutes beforehand. Good stuff, nice inclusion. OH and I almost forgot, this was a tournament final to crown the first ever Light Heavyweight Champ btw. Somewhat important moment I guess, since the title didn't last too long. 

- Michaels vs. Shamrock was an interesting matchup of speed vs. power. Shamrock isn't really all that much bigger, but they made it seem that way with the way he would dominate Shawn on offense, who of course sold it with beauty. The constant involvement of Hunter & Chyna did get pretty annoying and ultimately stunk up the finish, but I liked the match itself when they weren't stickin their noses in. Shamrock got in some nifty pinfall attempts and close nearfalls. JR was selling that belly to belly suplex so hard. :lol

- Whose idea was it to put D'Lo vs. Waltman on here? Nothing special to it at all...​


----------



## Apex Predator (Apr 9, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Thoughts on the HOGAN/BROCK match, Yeah?


Hogan V.S. Rock better.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

natich vs haitch cage is top notch


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Thoughts on the HOGAN/BROCK match, Yeah?


I remember IT, but I don't remember it, you know? I knock Brock uses the bearhug and makes Hulk bleed and shit, but I don't remember how good I thought it was. 

Checked one of my old snowflake books and I apparently gave it *3/4. It's gotta be a lot better than that.


-----

2009 so far

Swagger/Christian is still a million stars, obv. Christian's selling of the left arm was gorgeous, and I absolutely love how it was pretty much responsible for him losing the match., He can't hook the killswitch properly, he 's in too much pain after the tornado DDT to go for a cover, etc. Brilliant. That bump he takes off of the apron from the shoulder tackle is one of my all time favourite bumps. This is the best WWE ECW match (hell it's definitely arguable there are no original ECW matches better), and is right there with Michaels/Taker from the same year.

As far as huge v. not huge goes, I don't think I like Cena/Show 2/27 as much as Henry/Finlay x2 or Henry/Hardy and I absolutely didn't think is was Eddie/Show, but it'd be a stupid understand to say it was 'worth checking out'. It was impressive how it was pretty much a squash, but Cena's comebacks didn't come too easily. I said that you're never really on top of Henry during a match, and same goes for Show - you get your opportunity to be on the offense for only a short while. Show uses the headbutts and nerve hold and has excellent counters for things like just chucking John out of the ring during a bulldog and grabbing Cena's legs while jumping backwards when Cena had a sleeper on him. 

Not *too* high on Rey/Jericho at THE BASH~. I've made IDK how many posts saying how Jericho isn't a great wrestler, and this pretty much cemented it. This is a period where he was a touted 'Best in the World', in the best match he had that year, and he wasn't THAT good. I mean shit, he was good, he was pretty damn good and I can't actually complain about anything he did. It's just that he has such praise surrounding him and I didn't think his heel work-over period was anywhere near as interesting as Henry's in the Finlay/Hardy matches, Show's in the Cena match, Swagger's in the Christian match, etc. I really loved when he caught Rey's baseball slide and chucked his head into the barricade, the springboard-into-codebreaker counter was perfectly timed and countering a top-rope rana with a jumping powerbomb is something I surprisingly don't see too often. Still, the bulk of the match I couldn't imagine caring as much as I did (which wasn't a huge amount anyway) if it wasn't Rey. It sounds like I don't like Jericho and at this point and even am getting sick of what looks like me shitting on him, but I just keep noticing match after match he doesn't look as impressive as so many say he does. I don't want anybody to read this the wrong way - this is a very good match and a good Jericho showing, just not a great one, and Jericho doesn't stand out more than pretty much anyone else I've watched the past two days.

The 8/14 Punk/Morrison is pretty sweet, yeah. I'll be frank and say there is no way on Earth I will vote for it, but that's hardly low praise when we are talking about an entire decade with every continent counting. Punk's calling in life is obviously to be the scuzzy shitbag. I don't think this is quite as scuzzy a Punk showing as the Vince McMahon match from 2012, but he was a plenty big shiface in it. They do regular ol' wrestling shit until Punk gets fed up and start HEELing. There's a bunch of cool Punk spots like the apron leg-sweep which leads to the diving knee, elbows during the 'figure four-ish' headlock, the 'muay thai' slaps which I bought as less 'muay thai' and more "this guy almost pinned me, fuck him, I'mma slap his face". His strikes in general were much better than they were in 2008. It's like turning heel makes him do literally everything better. Like, literally everything. Hot finish run, especially for a sub-tenner. I actually kind of wish Punk was DQ'ed for the knees while Morrison was in the tree of woe, but I'm not going to complain about a clean finish. The elbow after he gets the pin is the slimiest thing in the world. This is the CM Punk I like watching.

----

Anyone got a download link for Show/Taker Cyber Sunday 08? There's a ton of links in different places but the stream site rippers won't accept myspace and they tear Chinese videos into 6 parts for whatever reason.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

When is the deadline for the Top 100 of the decade poll, I would be interested in reading the results 

Also, Ryback/Bryan from last week was stellar, ***1/2 from me, I think Ryback has had like 4 watchable matches on TV this year, and I haven't even seen the Jericho match yet


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Apex Predator said:


> Hogan V.S. Rock better.


What has that gotta do with anything?

Besides, taking a shit and watching that dissolve is better than sitting through Rock/Hogan, yeah the occasion and crowd are awesome, but everything else is numb IMO. Id rather watch HBK/Hogan tbh.

At least Brock makes their match worth watching.







* Yeah, I know Rock marks will disagree.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Started this DDP project, and my goodness. Anybody that ever does a late 90s WCW project, prepare for some terrible endings to matches. My memory of nWo era WCW is tarnishing by the minute. Thank goodness that Page is a shining light in a tunnel of mediocrity. I'm probably going to ditch the star-rating system for this because many of these matches won't score high on any "workrate" scale or any of that other nonsense, but there are so many DDP matches that are nothing more than just plain fun.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched both of the big Punk/Hardys. The TLC was fine, but I’m not one for those WWE multi-weapons matches any more. I will say that the post-ridiculously-big-dive was fantastic. The visual of Hardy getting off of the stretcher and chasing Punk who’s struggling to get into the ring was terrific, and made even more terrific by Punk’s incredible facial when he realises Hardy is still alive. Then Punk starts limping up the ladder with one leg and they have a stand-off at the top. Great ending. 

The cage was much, much better and pretty excellent. It was basically an entire match of potential finishes, and they couldn’t have worked it better. They sell the TLC injuries well and it gives them excuses to climb the cage slowly. They basically never stop trying to end the match so they a) can heal their injuries up, b) can win the title, and c) can keep their McMahon jobs. I loved the part where Punk was climbing the cage, sees Hardy could make it through the door before he climbs over, and then collapse in pain before gong after Jeff. Finish was done pretty much as terrifically as the TLC. Eye-poke and head shot sends Jeff down, and Punk falls to the black mat, writhing in pain, but cackling and holding his baby World Title. Really good match; I shouldn’t have put it off so long.

Watched Rey/Morrison 9/4/09. It was fun, but I kind stopped being in the mood to watch wrestling mid-match. Normally in that situation I’d watch it again, but I’m confident I won’t be putting it on the list. Even if I haven’t a bad thing to say about it, it’s going for a bar that it can’t reach.

Cena/Orton from Breaking Point did pretty much nothing for me. When I wasn’t bored, I was bothered by Orton’s hammy-ass acting and goofy facials. My God was he hard to watch. He was executing things well, coming up with some OK stuff and I liked him going around the world with the handcuffs, but I cannot get past his goddamn character. He had the worst possible sub-Low Ki facials when angry, and I don’t know what the fuck to call his pre-punt-attempt face. He boggled his eyes all weird, like, what, was he surprised to see a punt opportunity? Even then, that’s not what it should look like, goofball. There was a similar but not-as-bad one where Cena said ‘no’ to quitting. Orton’s eyes got all big and he looked like a giant baby. ‘Randy no likey.’ When he does a big spot he flips his body and turns for whatever reason. Like he’s so mental that…...I don’t know what. And why does lean his head against his opponent and make that stupid teeth-showing face when using the DDT and stuff? Goddamn, fuck you. I’ll take current-day babyface Orton over what I saw here. Usually ‘I’m alone on this’ is an exaggeration, but am I the only who feels this way? Like, literally the only one? Whatever. I had good things and some other not-so-good things to say about this but I don’t know where to fit in amongst the big mass of Orton-shitting. The fuck with this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart won his first WWF Title when he was 35, John Cena is 35 and has won 13, Randy Orton is 33 and has won 9 overall.

Makes it known how important the title was once I guess.

Bit random I know lol, but I was reading a Bret thread on a forum.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Austin & Rock?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Started this DDP project, and my goodness. Anybody that ever does a late 90s WCW project, prepare for some terrible endings to matches. My memory of nWo era WCW is tarnishing by the minute. Thank goodness that Page is a shining light in a tunnel of mediocrity. I'm probably going to ditch the star-rating system for this because many of these matches won't score high on any "workrate" scale or any of that other nonsense, but there are so many DDP matches that are nothing more than just plain fun.


Haha that's WCW for ya. I swear every main event Nitro match ended with an nWo interference. WCW always had that problem of having too many guys in the ring at the same time too.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

*No Mercy 2007*
*Rey Mysterio vs. Finlay*

Oh boy, i knew this would be good i just didn't expect what we got. Great, great work from Finlay (as per usual) working on the arm of Mysterio which of course he excels in selling his injuries and being the babyface in peril. A real back and forth match with Finlay trying all the dirty deeds in the book. 

The ending was so creative and leads well into their Stretcher match at Cyber Sunday as Finlay falls off the apron and smacks his head on the floor. It looked pretty painful and Finlay's selling had me chuckling especially when he looked around to see where the referee was. The crowd legitimately were cheering for Finlay before he reveals it was all a ruse and attacks Mysterio! Cole's reaction was great as was JBL's who defends Finlay lol at JBL, he was so good in 2007)

Awesome, will be moving onto their stretcher match next. Need to find all the matches they had in 2006 because their chemistry is on point.

****1/2* Ending, no matter how creative was a complete dead stop compared to the good pace of the match, so does lose something for that, it was heading for ****** territory.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Whoa, Rey/Finlay? On a PPV? Without a gimmick attached? Why do I not remember this? 


The best Rey/Finlay (imo) was easily SmackDown 11/9/07.


----------



## leon79 (Jun 12, 2006)

Any comments on WWE For all mankind? Thinking of picking it up for the weekend


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's probably worth a buy due to the documentary being stellar, the exclusive Sting Va Cactus Jack Submit or Surrender match, and the alternate commentaries recorded by Styles & the Mickster himself adding new perspective to a few matches (namely HIAC in 1998).

Other than that though, I'd stay away.

You wanna know where it's at? Kane Vs Finlay in the opener of Summerslam 2007; while it's not your typical fast paced WWE opener, as an individual piece it's actually quite a marvelous heel performance by Finlay, who spends the match dissecting Kane's midsection in stiff fashion while Kane sells it as if every move Finlay made was going to end his career. The sit-down onto the injured ribs is such a simplistic but effective spot and really made that match for me, haven't seen it in a while though.


----------



## leon79 (Jun 12, 2006)

Ah ok so it's that bad?

Bought it now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's by NO means bad. There's a fun little Cactus Jack Vs Van Hammer match, & if you're a fan of The Rock it'll probably be one of the greatest sets ever for you as it feels like he's in every single match . It depends on if you own HHH Vs Foley in the cell really, as that's probably worth the price of the DVD alone in the first place alongside the doc & alternate commentaries.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> You wanna know where it's at? Kane Vs Finlay in the opener of Summerslam 2007; while it's not your typical fast paced WWE opener, as an individual piece it's actually quite a marvelous heel performance by Finlay, who spends the match dissecting Kane's midsection in stiff fashion while Kane sells it as if every move Finlay made was going to end his career. The sit-down onto the injured ribs is such a simplistic but effective spot and really made that match for me, haven't seen it in a while though.


LOVE that match. Called it MOTN after watching the ppv live. (Y)

------------------------

*WWE Tag Team Championship
*Batista & Rey Mysterio (c) vs. MNM (_Smackdown 12/30/05_)

For anyone who's seen their original match from 12/16/05 and enjoyed it (that one's on Rey's _Life of a Masked Man _set btw), then you'll definitely like this one cause it basically has the exact same structure. Hot opening minutes until MNM gets a hold of Rey and starts working on the knee. GREAT limbwork I must add. Some of the replays they show look fantastic, especially the way Rey sells the superkick on the apron and how he has to crawl around the ring to get any offense in. Hot tag is made to Batista and he cleans house of course... until MARK HENRY runs in and destroys Batista with a HUGE military press into the World's Strongest Slam. Seriously, that looked so damn good. I was hoping he'd yell "THAT'S WHAT I DO!" but clearly this isn't 2013. Really good match, my only complaint is that the ref was "layed out" for a pretty damn long time despite only getting barely kicked in the head. **** 1/2

*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ That match is awesome. I miss MNM.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Most underrated tag team of the decade? I wouldn't hesitate to say it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I know a few of the more respected wrestling posters on this site (Cody/WOOLOCK/Yeah1993 a few others) sing their praises, as do I, but for the most part you're right - they have kinda flown under the radar for whatever reason and it's a shame because they worked a great style and were seemingly the perfect heel tag team.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They were awesome because not only were they great in the ring, but they were pretty much impossible to cheer for them due to them being complete fucking douchebags. I got REALLY invested in their characters when I was younger and when Batista & Rey put those fuckers down I was ecstatic.

MASTERS VS HBK COMING UP NEXT. I HAD THIS AT 4 STARS A YEAR AGO. LET'S SEE HOW FAR IT FALLS ON A REWATCH.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Evan have you seen Bret vs. Austin from In Your House: Revenge of the Taker? I know you loved their South Africa match, but I actually thought this one was a lot better and had more to get invested into. Definitely check it out if you haven't.

I should probably watch Unforgiven '05 sometime. Had it on dvd for a while..

Where the fuck has Cody been?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You watching Unforgiven 05? I think that's what HBK/Masters is from.

Yeah, douchebags might be the perfect word to describe MNM. And they were great fucking douchebags, at that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, it's the last match I have to watch on the DVD since I've already watched Angle/Cena like a week ago for my Cena project. The show has been pretty damn good so far with Snitsky/Big Show being good & the Hardy/Edge cage being fucking awesome and whatnot. I'm seriously hoping that I enjoy Masters/HBK as much as I used to, because who wants to be disappointed by a match on a rewatch?

& Corey I haven't seen that Bret-Austin match believe it or not. I saw a while ago that Clique pimped the shit out of that match and essentially their entire series, and now that you've pimped it, it's looking more and more likely that I'll check it out one of these days. I need a Blu-Ray player ASAP so that I can get in on some of these Blu Ray exclusives and stay away from watching matches in bad quality online. I have such a large collection of WWE DVDS at this point that it'll be hard to make the transition though.

So Corey .... Bret/Austin or Michaels/Taker?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wasn't that HBK's return match after being CHOKED by Kane? 

edit that may have been 04 idk


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> & Corey I haven't seen that Bret-Austin match believe it or not. I saw a while ago that Clique pimped the shit out of that match and essentially their entire series, and now that you've pimped it, it's looking more and more likely that I'll check it out one of these days. I need a Blu-Ray player ASAP so that I can get in on some of these Blu Ray exclusives and stay away from watching matches in bad quality online. I have such a large collection of WWE DVDS at this point that it'll be hard to make the transition though.
> 
> So Corey .... Bret/Austin or Michaels/Taker?


A Blu Ray player has been a pretty great investment, tbh. They aren't too expensive these day so I'd definitely pick one up these days. You can still watch all your dvds since they're backwards compatible too. (Y) If you had a blu ray player, you would've gotten two more really good matches on the Dungeon Collection vs. Yoko & Hakushi. Missin out, son!

Can you really ask me a harder question?  It's pretty tough to answer right now since I haven't seen either Michaels/Taker Mania matches since they aired (gave both **** 3/4 on the first viewing), but I can at least say that the two lesser talked about Bret/Austin matches (South Africe & IYH) are both comfortably better than Taker/HBK at Ground Zero. I think Taker/Michaels may win out by a slim margin due to them having THREE classic matches, while Bret/Austin have just two. Close race no doubt.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone got ratings for the IYH DVD? It looks good but I've only seen a few matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brye said:


> Anyone got ratings for the IYH DVD? It looks good but I've only seen a few matches.


Way to miss my entire review.  Here's everything (4th link is Blu Ray exclusives):

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...ost17954778.html?highlight=house#post17954778
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...ost18037218.html?highlight=house#post18037218
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...ost18138890.html?highlight=house#post18138890
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...ost18191810.html?highlight=house#post18191810


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Way to miss my entire review.  Here's everything (4th link is Blu Ray exclusives):
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...ost17954778.html?highlight=house#post17954778
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...ost18037218.html?highlight=house#post18037218
> ...


Haven't been around here enough recently. :argh:

Thanks though, it actually sounds fucking awesome. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

done with the semester and finals now to relax, party, and watch wrassslin wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo lol

anyways gotta watch cena/punk mitb to secure my top 5 cena

Evan what's your take on cena/ viper iron man ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ALWAYS a great feeling to be done for the semester.

As for my thoughts on the Cena Vs Orton Ironman? I gave it *** 1/4* while doing my Cena watches as the first half of the match is actually quite good for an 'anything goes' type match with that length, however things slowly start to go downhill when Orton quite literally tries to BLOW UP CENA, and then they proceed to start working normally again. I mean, they really should have tried crazier shit after that or saved that for towards the end because while the spot itself isn't the problem, the structure is. I'm not against people giving it a watch, but it's certainly not something you NEED to see.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ ok man I'll probably have to watch the I quit match first and then that one


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That whole Orton/Cena feud was fucking awful and put me off wrestling for about a year, which has never happened ever since I became a MARK in 2003.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think Orton is very talented and a legitimate main eventer, but that man has had some poor chemistry with other main event acts. His feud with Cena was pretty cool in 07, but then it felt more like an eyesore as time went on, his matches with HHH sucked even if the feud was kinda cool, his feud with Batista was total trash, and his feuds in 2010 when he became a main event face were not very good. On the contrary, he did have some nice stuff with HBK, Benoit, Christian, and Undertaker. Unfortunately, neither of those guys were THE #1 star when he feuded with them (except for maybe Benoit, but for some reason he played second fiddle to HHH when he was champ).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Orton/Cena series get far too much hate. Their first feud from 07 that went on for a bit of 2008 post-Rumble was great stuff (minus feud-advancer Unforgiven) and their 09 feud might have been gimmick overkill but in a sense, it worked. It gave them the opportunities to work different kind of matches instead of the same shit, different day. Their I Quit match differs greatly from their Ironman which differs from their straight up singles matches too. Sometimes it downright sucked (SummerSlam 09) but for the most part, I don't get the hate and I'd rather they redo that feud now. Would probably be the only thing that can really get me back into WWE currently.

And *funnyfaces1*, to respond to your rep from the other day here. I will do the Orton top 100 I talked about but it wont be until next month when the summer holiday is finally upon me. I have been too much of a procrastinator at school and it's time to catch up and finish everything I need to do which means there wont be much free time for wrestling and if there is, I'd wanna use it to finish 2006 first.



Yeah1993 said:


> Cena/Orton from Breaking Point did pretty much nothing for me. When I wasn’t bored, I was bothered by Orton’s hammy-ass acting and goofy facials. My God was he hard to watch. He was executing things well, coming up with some OK stuff and I liked him going around the world with the handcuffs, but I cannot get past his goddamn character. He had the worst possible sub-Low Ki facials when angry, and I don’t know what the fuck to call his pre-punt-attempt face. He boggled his eyes all weird, like, what, was he surprised to see a punt opportunity? Even then, that’s not what it should look like, goofball. There was a similar but not-as-bad one where Cena said ‘no’ to quitting. Orton’s eyes got all big and he looked like a giant baby. ‘Randy no likey.’ When he does a big spot he flips his body and turns for whatever reason. Like he’s so mental that…...I don’t know what. And why does lean his head against his opponent and make that stupid teeth-showing face when using the DDT and stuff? Goddamn, fuck you. I’ll take current-day babyface Orton over what I saw here. Usually ‘I’m alone on this’ is an exaggeration, but am I the only who feels this way? Like, literally the only one? Whatever. I had good things and some other not-so-good things to say about this but I don’t know where to fit in amongst the big mass of Orton-shitting. The fuck with this.


The thing with some of Orton's goofy facial expressions is it depends on what look he puts on. If it's his old one with the "handsome" look and the hair, then it's gonna look awesome but picture him doing the same faces bald and he's gonna look like an alien head.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

The Orton/Cena series of matches is a really interesting one because they show glimpses of greatness together (No Way Out 2008, Summerslam 2007, and Breaking Point) then they have real shitty matches like Hell in a Cell 2009 and Bragging Rights 2009.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Gonna check out some old Chamber matches today.. Any suggestions? The last one I really remember enjoying was the Smackdown Chamber from 2011.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

#Mark said:


> Gonna check out some old Chamber matches today.. Any suggestions? The last one I really remember enjoying was the Smackdown Chamber from 2011.


Survivor Series 2002
New Year's Revolution 2005
Elimination Chamber 2012

Just stay away from NYR 2006 & December to Dismember.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I never got what people saw in Cena/Orton NWO '08. Never liked it. Should probably give it another chance.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Orton Summerslam 07 and Breaking Point are both *****1/2* for me. Love those matches. I'd need to watch NWO 08 again as I do see it praised a lot by certain peeps in here but I don't really remember much about it. Their feud was great for the sole moment of Orton actually trying to blow Cena up in their ironman. :lmao. Madness.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I agree with Saint, I hear it always heralded as the best cena/orton match but I dont see it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NWO 08 is the only Orton/Cena match I would ever go back and watch again. Rest are mostly really bad. BP is good, not great. Wouldn't bother watching it again.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BP is awesome for two reasons; Orton's compelling and sick heel character portrayal and Cena's heroic and resilient babyface character portrayal. The finish bothers me though but that doesn't take away from everything that came before it. Brilliant stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everything Mr. Starbuck said besides the finish, LOVE IT.

When it comes to main event work, I'd easily have Cena Vs HBK/HHH/PUNK(obviously)/BROCK(The Extreme Rules Match is worth more than most series' of matches are)/Batista/Umaga/Jericho/Big Show/JBL over Cena/Orton. Yeah, that may provoke alot of negative emotion from people but it's an observation that I took from watching HOURS UPON HOURS of Cena footage.

Cena Vs HBK - two matches together better than the best Orton match, top notch consistency.
Cena Vs HHH - WM XXII match better than the best Orton match, superior consistency
Cena Vs Punk - I don't even need to explain this.
Cena Vs BROCK - The greatest match since 1997. Need I say more?
Cena Vs Batista - ER & SS > NWO & BP. WM XXVI > SS 07
Cena Vs Umaga - LMS better than any Orton match, NYR @ four stars, RAW Streetfight better than SS 07, CONSISTENCY.
Cena Vs Jericho - Consistently GREAT matches aside, SS 08 better than any Orton match
Cena Vs Big Show - Orton has 2 matches better than the best Cena-Show match with Cena; Cena-Show have no bad matches while Cena-Orton have many. CONSISTENCY is important
Cena Vs JBL - Aside from WM XXI this was awesome, with JD 05 being better than any Orton-Cena match, with another 3 great PPV encounters to boot.

I have THREE Cena Vs Orton matches in my bottom 10 John Cena matches ever.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I never got what people saw in Cena/Orton NWO '08. Never liked it. Should probably give it another chance.


Ending is legit hilarious.

Orton bitch slaps the ref and sits there laughing his ass off at Cena whilst he's being disqualified.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd take Cena/Orton over Cena/HHH, Cena/Jericho, Cena/JBL, Cena/Show, and maybe Cena/Batista.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I find it hard to do that when they've had the following matches ;

- Unforgiven 2007
- Summerslam 2009
- Hell in a Cell 2009
- RAW Tables Match 2010

Three of those are actually like ...... The worst of the worst when it comes to Cena matches.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Not a chance I'd take Cena/Orton over Cena's sets with HHH, Jericho and JBL (bar the Mania 21 match of course.) Not really sure about the Show or Batista series, never really been interested when Cena and Show have gone up against each other and Cena/Batista was ok but nothing special. Though I should watch the LMS match between them again. The ending puts me off.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not a fan of Cena/Show. Outside of their very good Smackdown '09 match I was never too impressed with their work together. Cena/HHH and Cena/Batista > Cena/Orton for sure though. Drawing a blank on Cena/JBL matches apart from WM21 and JD '05.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I find it unfair to use Unforgiven 2007 against the series. It's like dismissing Punk/Cena based on that Slammy Awards squash that lasted about 3 minutes.

When it comes to "big" series that have gone on on separate occasions with Cena, the Orton series is my favorite alongside Batista and Edge. I guess I'd add Punk too since they've had enough matches I've enjoyed to deserve it but I certainly wont have it at the top when they're yet to change their formula once.

As much as I like the JBL/Cena matches that have delivered, I find it hard to rate their series very highly when I don't care for over half of their PPV matches. Hate JD 08 and there's not a single fan for their WM21 match. I need to revisit the first blood match, though. However, I Quit and Parking Lot Brawl rule!

EDIT: Now that I think about it, Cena/Orton has the most amount of matches from a series that involves Cena which I've really liked.

- February 2007 (Raw)
- SummerSlam 07
- No Way Out 08
- Breaking Point 09
- Bragging Rights 09

That's not even including Wrestlemania XXIV or Backlash 07 and any other multi-man matches they've had.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Who could forget the infamous Parking Lot Brawl from GAB 2008?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The GAB Parking Lot Brawl match was fun. I loved it when JBL tried setting fire to a car with Cena inside. Ending was done pretty well as well. 

2008 wasn't really a great year for Cena, eh? Apart from winning the Rumble and the title later on, he didn't do much.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Cena having an "off year" is part of the reason why I thoroughly enjoyed 2008. Figures.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena had to take a back seat to THE GOAT.

:HHH2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I find it hard to do that when they've had the following matches ;
> 
> - Unforgiven 2007
> - Summerslam 2009
> ...


Orton/Cena SS 07, NWO 08, and BP 09 I'd take over most of the matches from each guy I mentioned. For JBL I'd put JD 05 above those three, for HHH I'd put NOC and the second Raw match in 09 above SS 07 and BP 09, Cena/Show I'm not sure I'd put any of there matches above those three Orton/Cena matches, and Cena/Batista... well... not sure. Definitely more consistent than Orton/Cena and I'd put their Summerslam 08 match above any of them.

As far as the matches you mentioned, SS 09 and Unforgiven 07 were bad, can't remember the Tables match too well, and the HIAC match... don't know where the hate for it came from. I remember it being a good one. Suppose I'll give it a re-watch one of these days.

Edit: Hm, I never thought about it, but Cena's bad (kayfabe) 08 might be part of the reason I really liked the year. It's still pretty amazing he ended up losing three PPV matches clean in a row, with one of them being to JBL of all people.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena taking a backseat in 2008 made perfect sense. Fans had been exhausted with him as champion for the larger part of 2005-2007. Even though he won the Rumble instantly upon his return, they made a wise decision keeping him away from the WWE Championship instead of hopping on the opportunity to crown him champion and give him a year long reign again.

And is it only me or does 2008 really feel like a refreshing comeback from a rather dark 2007? With the new set-up for the arenas, the introduction of the HD era and all, it's like they had new life breathed into their shows. Whenever I look at stuff from the second half of 2007, I can't help but see dark clouds over it with the Benoit tragedy aftermath.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *WWE Tag Team Championship
> *Batista & Rey Mysterio (c) vs. MNM (_Smackdown 12/30/05_)


(Y)

Big fan of that tag match. Should watch the 12/16 encounter soon since I recall you being a big advocate of that encounter:



> *MNM vs Rey Mysterio & Batista, (Smackdown 12/30/05)*
> 
> Amazing STF match here. People often bring up great tag teams and honestly, has there been a better tag team since the Rockers in the WWE than MNM? People point to the Hardyz, Dudleys and E&C but none of those teams, especially the Dudleys and E&C as heels could work a match quite like MNM. Match is entirely layed out like a great STF match should be, and when you've got great babyfaces like Mysterio and Batista who are complimented by great heels in MNM its a formula which can't fail. Extended babyface opening has a nice flow to it and everything is hit well enough with Mysterio in particular having a tremendous headscissors on Nitro which looked insane. Nitro to his credit also has this brilliant subtle spot where he breaks up a Mysterio cover and then shits himself when he eyes Batista about to enter the ring. In fairness the way they built up the power of Batista at the beginning and end of the match really should be credited, since it made the FIP section all the more pivotal to the match.
> 
> ...


Got it pegged as a top 60 match of the decade for a poll I'm working on with a few others. Huge admirer of it.

As for MNM, amazing heel tag team. Sad to see how pitiful the tag team matches are in WWE these days which suffer for a variety of reasons: not being afforded time to work interesting matches, the division being put on the backburner and performances clearly suffering as a result and chiefly the severe lack of interesting heel work. MNM were just sensational as STF heels. Worked great double team spots, bumped tremendously, were easily hateable, worked great transition spots, utilised every trick in the book to draw heat such as drawing the ref out of position when the babyface makes a tag out, cheap shotting, entering the ring without tagging in, choking babyfaces with the tape rope, Melina working cheapshots and distractions on the apron etc. Just perfected every facet of a heel tag team and were responsible for a truly great and consistent tag team scene from '05-07. Great douchebag and sleazy heels, able to work faster paced matches or matches built around long control segments and selling, stooged and worked comedy spots at their own expense, nasty and vicious when the time was needed etc. Overlooked gem of a tag team.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WC, what's your opinion on the steel cage match Rey/Batista had with MNM in the first SD of 2006? I've only seen hate for it around here but personally, I enjoyed it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> WC, what's your opinion on the steel cage match Rey/Batista had with MNM in the first SD of 2006? I've only seen hate for it around here but personally, I enjoyed it.


I can't recall much of it tbh. Don't think I had a high opinion of it personally but its been too long to elaborate on any misgivings I had with the match. Not really something I'm that interested in rewatching either currently tbh.

Gonna watch Punk/Hardy Loser Leaves Town Cage Match & Chavo/Bourne from ECW in '08 within the next hour.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk/Hardy in the cage is great, superb finish to an awesome feud.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I think I have a serious obsession with REY/Jericho from GAB 09. FAN FUCKING TASTIC! ****3/4

2 nd time watching this in a week lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:hb for all the MNM love and the talk of their mini series with Batista & Rey. I've never seen the Cage match put I'll put the 12/16 encounter just a shade below 12/30. Like I said before, it's structured almost exactly the same, in fact the FIP segment on Rey might even be longer and structured better, but there's no legwork to get invested in. Squeaky clean finish too.

Now WOOLCOCK, get in the Lucha thread and give me thoughts/opinions/lists. I'm in a total lucha de apuesta mood right now. (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rey/Batista v. MNM cage might be the worst Rey match in WWE.



Choke2Death said:


> The thing with some of Orton's goofy facial expressions is it depends on what look he puts on. If it's his old one with the "handsome" look and the hair, then it's gonna look awesome but picture him doing the same faces bald and he's gonna look like an alien head.


I completely love Legend Killer Orton's faces. I think there's MAYBE the tiniest bit of goofiness to them, but it's a good and cocky kind of goofy. Like he's a guy who smiles because has the upper-hand and will get kicked in the arse anyway. Legend Killer Orton can also do a very good 'surprised' face. 'Viper' Orton's facials just look like a thirteen year old at school who everyone thinks is weird because he believes he is an anime character. And his 'surprise' face look like mentally handicapped fish.

I'm glad you said 'alien' because I noticed that too. 


Side-note. I actually didn't dislike the finish at all. Maybe it's because I didn't like the match anyway and I didn't care what the finish was, but a tug-of-war for the key to the handcuff and then a unique STF was kind of cool. IDK, it looked like something Orton might actually have trouble getting out of. Maybe I'm wrong and it stunk but I see no way I will watch that again within the next year to find out.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Shield vs Cena/Team Hell NO

Rating: ★★★1/4. Good match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Same rating from me, having it as an elimination tag made it a littler fresher. Some of those DQ eliminations were sloppy though.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Cena/Hell No vs The Shield, ****1/4 and honestly my favorite Shield match, everything here was awesome and the elimination stipulation added something fresh, and I personally think that the DQ eliminations were handled perfectly, just awesome!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Shame about Ziggler not being able to go at Extreme Rules. Just when I was gaining some interest in the 3 way ladder match. Swagger/Del Rio I Quit could be very good though. Hopefully they work it similar to their Smackdown match, focusing on limb work to set up their submissions but with some weapons and big bumps.

Missed the Shield match. Gotta check out that, Bryan/Ambrose, Ryback/Jericho and Cesaro/Orton.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just got home from my friends house anything good happen on raw ?


----------



## T-Zone (May 5, 2013)

Decent show tonight... could've done without the WWE app plugs...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Fuck the haters, that HHH/Lesnar segment was great. Pumped for that match now. Lesnar's gonna fly around that cage like a maniac.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Another abysmal week for Raw. Shield match was a very good one, but Cena winning, even by DQ, is fucking balls. Dance-off was a waste of 20 minutes. Final segment was another mediocre segment to add to the Lesnar/HHH feud, and it looks like it might be the final one between them to. What a way to lead us into ER! <_<

Well, at least after ER the Lesnar/HHH feud looks like it'll be done. Whether Brock wins or loses, he's going to need to destroy someone big to gain back all the steam he's lost during this year-filled feud with HHH. Either a returning Punk, Randy Orton, Sheamus, just someone that Lesnar can not only dominate, but also beat 1-2-3/by submission in the ring.

Well, at the very least, I can take solace in the fact that the feud ends at ER... I think...


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't think there was a segment tonight where the app wasn't mentioned. The only time Barrett got close to TV was on the app, yet the dance off took up twenty minutes, and the secret admirer/AJ/Natayla match/segment went on forever. 

Regardless of how you feel about Barrett, the IC champion not being on the show two of the last three weeks and being used as a pawn in another feud last week is just stupid. Since Miz is back they may throw the strap back to him. Can't express my hate for Miz enough. Just want to punch that face in every time I see it. UGH.

Shield match was good, but Cena overcoming the odds again was vomit-inducing. They should have had Ryback distract Cena and cost him the match. 

Finally, I don't think it's out of the question for the Shield to all walk out Sunday with titles. Hope that happens.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

From what I read, Raw sounds pretty bad. 

If the WHC ladder match is cancelled, hopefully Reigns & Rollins vs Hell No becomes a ladder match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ratings on rey/punk series from 10


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ratings on rey/punk series from 10


Wrestlemania - ??? (haven't seen it since it aired, probably say in the ** 1/2 - *** range)
Extreme Rules - *** 1/2
Smackdown May 14th - ** 1/4 (feud advancer)
Over The Limit - *** 3/4

Know they had an earlier Smackdown match that gets a lot of praise (February 12th or 14th or somethin?) but I've never seen it. Also willing to throw **** at their Capitol Punishment encounter from 2011. Best of their series imo, yet the forgotten one I'm sure.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Punk/Rey WrestleMania: ****1/2*

Also watched Foley/Hunter Rumble. Still don't get it. Weird match.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Best Mysterio/Punk match was at Armageddon in the Finals of the Intercontinental TItle Shot tournament. Solid ****


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That was an awful Raw. Possibly the worst of 2013. Usually you can count on The Shield to put on a good match, but even their match fucking sucked. Cena burying the entire stable single handedly made me legit facepalm. Why couldn't they just have had Ryback interfere or something?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

:lol:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Cena comeback in The Shield match was just dumb. I didn't mind him getting a pin on Rollins, but then Reigns' DQ was dumb since he barely even touched the ref. And then to have Ambrose locked in the STF at the very end just hurt The Shield. After all the strong booking this was definitely poor. At least Cena didn't win, but he came the closest anyone has and it was 3 on 1.



redskins25 said:


> ratings on rey/punk series from 10


Their 'Mania match has got to be one of the best 5 minute matches around. A real shame they didn't get more time. ****1/2* for that, can't recall their other stuff right now.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Wait, Cena beat the SHIELD?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Wait, Cena beat the SHIELD?


By DQ. Bryan and Kane had been eliminated, so it was 3 on 1. Cena pinned Rollins before Reigns got DQ'd for shoving the ref. Cena then locked Ambrose in the STF but Reigns and Rollins broke it up, thus giving Cena the DQ win.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

eh, that's... something


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck me, they still trying to use Lawler to put over Fandango? The guy just isn't over, and Lawler isn't going to help him. Now we have about 3 people every week trying to be all cool and shit signing his theme song and that's it. Just let him die.

Speaking of dying... kill me. A dance off? Fuck off. Shit like this happens far too often on Raw. Change things up and bring back musical chairs. As long as they invite Flair for it. That shit was awesome. FLAIR + MUSICAL CHAIRS = RATINGS.

OH SHIT THEY MENTIONED MUSICAL CHAIRS. BEST RAW EVER.

Remember when Jericho was funny?

Fandango is hearing music but looks confused. I get confused when I hear Fandango's music. Confused as in " this guy is still on the active roster and getting TV time?".

So they wasted like 20 minutes on this and... they didn't even have the dance off. I love when WWE waste our time.

Speaking of time wasting, its THE ICE Z! Again I remain confused as to why someone is still on the roster and getting TV time.

THE RYBACK. Sucks.

Fuck me, skipped through Ryback/Ryder match and somehow also missed a tag match with PTP and those dancing dinosaur dudes.

Fucking OUCH at that kick from Swagger to Dolph on SD. So I'm guessing Ziggler won't be able to compete and he'll drop the WHC already? Poor guy, he just can't catch a break. Which means either Swagger or Del Rio are gonna be WHC after this Sunday? Urgh. URGH.

AIRBOURNE doing the theme for Extreme Rules. I likes.

Why does Teddy keep pretending to be GM? Does Booker not want to travel to Raw?

Oh god I hope this isn't going where I think its going. Don't place Big E in the match in place of Dolph so he can retain the title for him. 

Oh good that isn't happening, and Dolph also ISN'T dropping the title. He's just facing either Del Rio or Swagger one on one now at some point after a... number 1 contender I QUIT MATCH? I don't think it matters what stip they throw at the match, Del Rio Vs Swagger just doesn't do it for me. My penis is soft and they ain't gonna change that with any kind of stip. NO ERECTION FOR THIS MATCH.

Speaking of someone who does absolutely nothing for me, its the US champion Kofi "useless as my Duty Manager Rob" Kingston! Wanna kill my interest in the SHIELD? Put Kofi with them. Ambrose winning the US title at ER makes me happy though. Should be a fucking SQUASH match though. Kofi blows. Though he likes Spider-Man and Venom. He blows slightly less.

HENRY. So apparently WWE have signed another Strongman. I remember seeing him last year on one of the strongman competitions. He did TERRIBLE :lmao. 

NOW PUT THIS STRAP ON.

LIKE A RAT.

YOU DOING A LOT OF TALKING AND NOT ENOUGH WALKING.

My god Henry is fucking awesome. HE'S TRENDING NOW. Well, not now now, but now at the time of the show now when it aired.

Sheamus left Henry a present under the ring. He took a shit? Oh wait, its his own strap on. Sheamus beating Henry with a strap on. What is this, Saints Row 3? Henry Vs Sheamus in a strap on match brings new meaning to Henry's "BENT on Destruction" T-Shirt.

Orton match. Skip. Not even Cesaro makes me care about Orton.

Miz beats Slater with a unique leg hold. Good for him. I care more about the well being of snakes than I do anything Miz does. And I fucking hate snakes and hope they all become exstinct in the next 20 seconds.

Team Hell No Vs SHIELD in a tornado tag match at ER? Are those things No DQ? If so I'm extremely happy. Even if it isn't I'm still fine with that "stip".

Ooooo 6 man elimination tag? COLOUR ME EXCITED OR HOWEVER THE SAYING GOES. Good stuff. SHIELD always deliver.

:lmao what an awesome fan poll. WHO WILL BIG E FACE? SWAGGER OR DEL RIO? OMG THE CHOICES, THE POTENTIAL!!!

:lmao SWAGGER won the vote? WHAT?

AJ WRESTLING. AJ WINS.

Triple H promo to main event. Awesome. 15 minutes of him saying absolutely nothing. Can't wait. TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK FIGHT YEY!

Lesnar's German Suplex looked awesome. KILL THE GAME. I hope HHH doesn't beat the fucking MMA guy inside a cage. Seems like it would just be to fucking jerk off HHH and give him another ego boost. I R TRABLE HAICH I GONE DID BEAT TEH YOUEFFSEE GUY IN CAGE.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Big Z, thank you for your review. As somebody who doesn't watch RAW you reminded me why I don't and made me laugh while doing it . Will rep you next time I can.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm watching this:

Cruiserweights 1 - 120 MIN 
JULY 1998 - DECEMBER 1998 

Chris Jericho vs Ultimo Dragon 
Dean Malenko vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Chris Jericho vs Dean Malenko 
Alex Wright & Disco Inferno vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko 
Eddie Guererro vs Perry Saturn 
Juventud Guerrera vs Billy Kidman 
Eddie Guererro vs Perry Saturn 
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Psycosis 
Billy Kidman vs Chris Jericho 
Kaz Hoyashi vs Juventud Guererra 
Eddie Guererro vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Juventud Guererra vs Kidman 
Eddie Guererro vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Chris Benoit vs Bret Hart 


Cruiserweights 2 - 120 MIN 
JULY 1998 - DECEMBER 1998 

Rey Mysterio Jr vs Kidman 
Dean Malenko vs Brett Hart (groin injury Bret) 
Konnan vs Chris Jericho 
Eddie Guererro vs Kidman 
Bret Hart vs Diamond Dallas Paige (no DQ match) 
Silver King vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Juventud Guererra 
Kidman vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Chris Jericho vs Perry Saturn 
Eddie Guererro vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 


Cruiserweights 3 - 120 MIN 
JANUARY 1999 - MARCH 1999 

Perry Saturn vs Chris Jericho 
Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr vs Psycosis & Juventud 
Psycosis vs Kidman 
Chris Jericho vs Booker T 
Psycosis vs Juventud Guererra 
La Parka vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Blitzkrieg vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Blitzkrieg & Psycosis & Juventud vs Hector Garza & Super Calo & El Dandy 
Chris Jericho vs Juventud Guererra 
Rey Mysterio Jr & Konnan vs Silver King & Hector Garza 
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Horace Hogan & Brian Adams 
Chris Jericho vs Hugh Morrus 
NWO Horsemen parody 


Cruiserweights 4 - 120 MIN 
JANUARY 1999 - MARCH 1999 

Kevin Nash vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Hector Garza vs Psychosis 
Blitzkrieg vs Juventud Guererra 
Psychosis vs Kidman 
Backstage brawl: Bam Bam Bigelow, Hak (Sandman) & Raven 
Chavo Guererro vs Kidman 
HAK (Sandman) vs Bam Bam Bigelow 
Raven vs HAK (Sandman) 
Kidman vs Rey Mysterio Jr 
Rey Mysterio Jr vs Juventud Guererra 
Psychosis & Silver King & el Dandy & La Cacuracha vs La Parka & Super Calo & Lizmark Jr & Damian 
El Vampiro vs Juventud Guererra 
Blitzkrieg vs Kidman 


Cruiserweights 5 - 120 MIN 
MARCH 1999 - JULY 1999 

Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Raven & Saturn vs Kidman & Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Juventud Guererra vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Juventud guererra vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Psychosis vs Blitzkrieg vs Juventud Guererra vs Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko & Kidman vs Raven & Saturn & Rey Mysterio Jr. 
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Psychosis 
Juventud Guererra vs Kidman 
Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Raven & Saturn 
DDP & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Saturn & Kanyon 


Cruiserweights 6 - 120 MIN 
MARCH 1999 - JULY 1999 

Kevin Nash dumps garbage on Randy Savage 
HAK (The Sandman) vs Prince Iaukea 
DDP & Bam Bam Bigelow vs Chris Benoit & Rick Flair 
La Parka & Silver King vs Ciclope & Damian (Lucha hardcore match) 
Saturn vs Kanyon -> Saturn & Benot vs Kanyon & DDP 
Konnan & Rey Mysterio Jr. vs Psychosis & La Parka 
Psychosis vs Kidman 
Juventud Guererra vs Eddie Guererro 
Psychosis vs Eddie Guerrerro 
Triad vs Buff & Malenko 
Juventud Guererra vs Chavo Guererro Jr. 
Triad vs Benoit & Saturn & Malenko


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I used to have that set. Was always confused by the inclusion of guys like Bret Hart, DDP and the NWO on a set names "Cruiserweights" lol.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Big Z said:


> And I fucking hate snakes and hope they all become exstinct in the next 20 seconds.


Snakes are awesome.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I was to at first but it just includes at least one cruiserweight. Although the Kevin Nash dumps garbage on Savage doesn't sound right but probably includes X-Pac somehow.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Final Four's 4 way is far superior to Backlash 2007's one. I find the latter overrated, **** at best IMO.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I find the former overrated (average match). But the latter isn't 4 stars either tbf.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Popped in the *CM Punk: Best in the World *Blu Ray last night and watched a few matches. Just gonna throw out some ratings cause I'm short on time.

vs. Brent Albright (_OVW 3/1/06_) *** 1/2 (rather overbooked finish but a really good match before it got too crazy)

vs. Justin Credible (_ECW debut 8/1/06_) ** 1/2 (great debut and also a good showing from Credible)

Cody Rhodes & Ted Dibiase vs. Punk & Kofi Kingston (_RAW 10/27/08_) *** 1/4 (shown in its entirety without commercials, quality tag match)

vs. William Regal No DQ (_Raw 1/19/09_) *** 1/2 (shown in its entirety without commercials, very unique No DQ match)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Then again, I find a lot of things overrated. Orton's in-ring psychology for one, , His demented glances look unnatural.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> vs. William Regal No DQ (_Raw 1/19/09_) *** 1/2 (shown in its entirety without commercials, very unique No DQ match)


This match is totally rad. Love it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WCW Fall Brawl 1997​*
Meng & Barbarian vs Mortis & Wrath ~ ******​
I would go into great detail about why I think this or why I love it, but honestly the match was so simplistic with its bossy nature that what I could type up over the span of two paragraphs is nearly moot. You know how these guys work if you've seen 'em _(especially Mortis & Wrath circa '97)_ These four dudes beat the CRAP out of each other. Better yet, the fans marked hard for it. Which only further drives home the frustration of WCW not using any new faces past the midcard. I digress on their negligence in putting over the match some more. Meng was pro, per usual. Barbarian was rough, but Meng was about 10x rougher. He gets tagged in and Mortis & Wrath were screwed right from jump-street. Meng pulverized and pummeled. God damn he was the MAN. Mortis & Wrath continued to impress themselves. They actually had a hell of a year as a team. Kanyon was always one of my favorites growing up and it remains to this day. Guy was innovative. Managed to get a rise out of most crowds thanks to his offense that was never seen much from other WCW roster members. Then there is Wrath - who looking back, while I always liked him, was underrated - he came in not letting the Faces of Fear try and toss him around. Match brute force for brute force. Ah, it's brilliant this match. Replace a tad bit of the fun spots seen from the Mortis & Wrath vs Glacier & Miller tag from Bash at the Beach for more straightforward manly action and they're on the same plane. You like tag team wrestling, WCW's wonderful midcard, or any of these four? You'll adore this match. If not...well watch it and learn to love any or all of those aspects. 

This ruled all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CODY!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hayley3

I watched about 20 minutes of RAW drunk & then passed out. I imagine if I go watch the rest right now, it won't be good with a hangover? Then again the main event should be awesome. I'll probably watch anyways. Ah nuts if it sucks. _ (yes, I've skipped all spoilers up to this point. Was tempted to read your review too...)_

Give me a Mark Henry match this week, WWE. Enough of the WSM challenges.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't call what I posted a "review". Just me making random notes while I watched the show .

WWE still need to sign Big Z. Henry Vs Big Z for WM XXX in a World's Strongest Man match. I don't know what the rules would be but fuck it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets not get caught up in semantics now. :hmm:

I'd imagine it would have tractor trailers, giant logs, tires, & other STRONG LIFTING THINGS around ringside to use to try and defeat your opponent with. Only at WrestleMania.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bryan's little bit in the 6 man last night was awesome. Loved how he matched the Shield's chaotic style by basically flying all over the place. Crowd lapped it up too. On the whole the match was great up until they had Cena utterly dominate at the end. I'm not bothered by it but it does seem a little strange that they would have him do that after how strongly they have booked the Shield thus far. Either way, Rollins/Reigns vs. Hell No in a tornado tag can be bags of fun. Really looking forward to that. Ambrose/Kofi will be good for the sole fact that Ambrose wins and Kofi fucks off to wherever. Extreme Rules is shaping up to quite the card imo. Really looking forward to it after Raw last night. They sold me on Jericho/Fandango, Seamus/Henry, Shield, Cena/Ryback and Game/Bork. Sue me for being positive lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would rep you guys for the answers to the rey/punk series but i have to spread them around


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Yes, Bryan was fucking amazing in the 6 man match last night. It's a rare when I have those "DAMN This match is too fast for me, I don't know if I can keep up it's so good! :mark:" moments.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Apparently The Miz vs. Cody Rhodes is on the pre-show. I haven't seen Raw, but is there any rhyme or reason to it or is it just because they can?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And Rhodes will no doubt job.

</3


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

There was a sign on Raw last night that said 'Sandow stole my dad's robe' which I had a good laugh at. :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

There were some good signs on Raw now that you mention it. The Sandow one, yes, but there were a few others that made me chuckle. 

TAKER HATER
HHH SUX
TURN CENA INTERESTING

All right at the front too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BORK LASER

was in the corner either last week or two weeks ago. idc, that always gets a rise out of me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah the 'turn Cena interesting' one was fun too. Actually I was watching a match the other day, can't recall what but it was about 10 years old I think, and I saw a sign that said 'token black guy' with an arrow pointing downwards. :lol


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Saw a sign saying

"RAW NEEDS PUNK"

truer words have never been said.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

The Shield, Hell No can do no wrong in my eyes. The one true shining light of the WWE atm. I'm hopeful that Bryan will get a renewed singles push after ER, but I'm also slightly hesitant to see Hell No split. It's long overdue but they've had a great run.

Cesaro 

Jericho is doing his best to sell this Fandango fad feud, but even though I'm a fan of Curtis, I can't help feeling like I'm watching history. And I don't mean that Fandango is going to make history either. It's just bleh, and the segments that have come out of it are pretty woeful. The whole gimmick has a shelf-life of 2 minutes, and I'd already say that it's ran too damn long. Jericho's serious promo was all kinds of goodness though.

Babyface Trips rambling can be so very, very tedious. He's very apt at drawing out boring material, and while it worked as a heel back in the day, there are times when I just cannot be fucked listening to him as a face. I've never been much of a babyface Trips fan, but fuck me.

The square-off and brawl in the cage was awesome. If Brock and Hunter had gotten more physical more often, this whole feud would've been a lot more interesting. Looking forward to a GOOD OLE' FASHIONED CAGE MATCH on Sunday.

Saw a sign that said "Raw needs Punk". Indeed........... In. Deed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Bryan's little bit in the 6 man last night was awesome. Loved how he matched the Shield's chaotic style by basically flying all over the place. Crowd lapped it up too. On the whole the match was great up until they had Cena utterly dominate at the end. I'm not bothered by it but it does seem a little strange that they would have him do that after how strongly they have booked the Shield thus far. Either way, Rollins/Reigns vs. Hell No in a tornado tag can be bags of fun. Really looking forward to that. Ambrose/Kofi will be good for the sole fact that Ambrose wins and Kofi fucks off to wherever. Extreme Rules is shaping up to quite the card imo. Really looking forward to it after Raw last night. They sold me on Jericho/Fandango, Seamus/Henry, Shield, Cena/Ryback and Game/Bork. Sue me for being positive lol.


BAH.

SATISFIED & OPTIMISTIC WITH YOUR WRESTLING PRODUCT!

MOST UNORTHODOX! 

:flair3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone think Trips will win again on Sunday? Yes, we all expect Brock to come out with the win but im starting to have a slight doubt tbh, havnt watched Raw yet (will later) though.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Ignoring Cena/Ryback, Extreme Rules does actually look like a decent card

Henry/Sheamus, Hell No/Shield, Ambrose/Kofi, Brock/HHH all have a ton of potential. Jericho/Fandango could be decent, don't know enough about fandango but trust Jericho

Only matches I'm not looking forward to are Cena/Ryback and Show/Orton


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Anyone think Trips will win again on Sunday? Yes, we all expect Brock to come out with the win but im starting to have a slight doubt tbh, havnt watched Raw yet (will later) though.


 That'd be even worse than Cena winning last year IMO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> That'd be even worse than Cena winning last year IMO.


I went off on one when Trips won at Mania lol, if he wins again I'll having a(nother) fucking meltdown.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think Brock's going to win, but when HHH is involved you never know (sad that I just said that but it's the truth). I believe there's a potential chance that Triple H wins by fluke or something, like Brock accidentally throws him through the cage or something, or Brock dives at the cage knocking them both through it. 

I have a feeling it's going to have a REALLY stupid finish.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm predicting a pinfall victory rather than an escape. I was surprised that this feud has been going on since last April. Can't believe it has taken this long :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, id imaging the finish being dubious or Trips still looking as strong. I want Brock to destroy him, then just stand tall at the top of the fucking cage shouting "I'm the king if this motherfucking ring" whilst Trips is lying in a bloody heap.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well, Brock's inevitably jobbing to The Rock at Wrestlemania anyways, so it's not like there's anything WWE can do to make me believe that Brock could possibly win that match anyways. If the HHH-Lesnar blowoff was hotshotted due to The Rock's injury and the lack of a legitimate big time match at Extreme Rules, it makes me believe that this was supposed to be a HIAC match at the HIAC PPV... Just a hunch.

Seriously though, I don't want to get into the whole 'Rock sucks' argument again, but fuck him.

NOPE, I'm gonna continue to ramble on about this; I actually legitimately care about Brock Vs HHH for the sole reason that I don't want them to completely fuck BROCK anymore than they already have. It's already become crystal clear that Brock doesn't give a single fuck if he wins or loses, as long as he keeps getting put in main event matches and given main event cheques, that's all he cares about. That fact alone makes it HIGHLY likely that Brock is going to continue losing PPV matches while showing up on RAW and owning everybody. You just have to believe that Brock is going to win this next match, but for what? To build him up for The Rock, somebody he has no chance of beating anyways? That's more predictable than Rock-Cena II in all honesty, how would that program even work? All I know is that we better see more Brock PPV matches after this with guys like CENA because I don't think I can take Brock diving head first into a feud with Rock after a year long feud with HHH.

Let HHH do something different, let BROCK do something different.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I miss the Rock


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Rock/Brock looks so unappealing after ROCK13 reared his ugly head. I was still mildly interested (based on the magnitude plus their last encounter (AND THE REVENUE THAT THE MATCH WOULD GENERATE~!~!!!1!)) after Rock/Cena 1, but now? In 2013? No thanks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know how you feel.

I was strongly pushing for Rock-Brock for Wrestlemania XXIX after the Royal Rumble debacle because it meant Rock dropping the title back to Punk before Mania and getting a Punk-Cena title match (you know, the RAW 13 match at WRESTLEMANIA, that would have been something). Once I saw The Rock's work this year though, I don't want him bogging Brock down... I just don't want him working with ANYBODY really, I just want him to go away and only come back like Austin giving people Rock Bottoms and saying stupid catchphrases and making childish noises every now and then. FUCK.

I'm not going to complain about what we got though; we got to have the epic GOAT RAW match in Punk Vs Cena as well as the epic Taker Vs Punk match at Wrestlemania which rightfully stole the show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Trips wins on Sunday then idk anymore. WrestleMania was passable b/c it made the score even. Brock winning this is the only logical out. What does Trips have left? Nothing. He loses, he goes off camera again, Brock remains dominate. That's what should happen.

lol @ a Brock vs Rock match. Terrible waste. Who started this rumor anyways?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/everything Cody said. Brock should win Sunday. Trips disappears until later in the year. Brock may challenge for the title.

NO to Brock/Rock, though. Also, it was merely a dirtsheet rumor, Cody, but they also alluded to it when Heyman/Brock invaded WWE Headquarters.

Also, Tornado Tag @ ER could be LEGIT. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Apparently that's what's up. Rock has come out on record and said that that was the original plan heading into Wrestlemania XXX and it still may be if he decides to get back in the ring (let's hope he doesn't). You take that and mix it in with the Heyman tweet from earlier this year & the obvious hint from last week's RAW and it's made fairly clear that they're going to do Rock-Brock as the main event or co-main event of XXX. Brock wants what's going to give him the most money, Rock wants to go out in the biggest match possible on the biggest stage possible while going out as a winner with really no unavenged losses. It's a no-brainer really.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

brock/hhh HIAC :mark: to bad we probably aren't getting it, that is two back-back HIAC classics we could of gotten but didn't


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I didn't look much into the Rock comment when Brock & Heyman were at HQ. I just took it as an insult and moved on.

WWE is much more tolerable without a Rock segment so the more of that come next WM season, the better. Don't think I'll get my wish. And another match where I'll continue to give zero damns about the build pardon Brock. Only this rumored match won't be on the quality that Brock vs H reached. That's the REALLY lame part.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Taker-Cena happens, it goes on last.

Simple as that.

& by the time Wrestlemania XXXI rolls around, I think Brock's record is going to be around 4-5 or something. NO WAY he leaves this run in WWE with a winning record. GOD I hate sounding like a fucking retarded fantasy booker, but I STILL wish they had to book Wrestlemania XXIX & Brock the way I wanted them to  .....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another rumor I'm not buying into and also wondering how in the hell it got brought up.

Lets just wait until the Rumble comes around before we start predicting things.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Amen to that brother, Taker deserves it and not mention the unpredictability within the match itself.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

where would that leave punk if all this happens though? Jericho again ? hhh ?- they would have to build some one up immensely


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think Taker/Cena is rumored because they're gonna try to pull out all the stops for Mania XXX, and who else is there left for Taker to face? That's the biggest match right now aside from Taker/Rock or Taker/Brock. 

I'm bummed about the ladder match 3-way being pulled from the card, given that I believe it could've been a hidden gem of the night, but it's understandable that DOLPH can't go. Concussions are no joke - I've had 2, and they surely aren't fun.

Potential MOTN for ER - Brock/H or Tornado Tag. SHIELD winning all the gold =


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Trips vs. Punk - With The Punkster going over and getting his win back rightfully, That BS from 2011 still hasn't been avenged upon.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Go to 4 minutes.

If Rock performs @ XXX it's with Brock and nobody else unfortunately .

"Great Athletic Match" ... Go fuck yourself Rock.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker/Cena
Brock/Rock
Trips/Punk

I could get behind that.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Austin/Punk, Trollolol. :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main event will be Cena vs Fandango.

why? idk. We all have to wait a year for it so lets just keep on predicting.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/punk could be great, not a big fan of their noc 11 match but it has potential


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Taker/Cena
> Brock/Rock
> Trips/Punk
> 
> I could get behind that.


I could get behind that as well.

Also, guys, have you heard about the WWE App yet?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE App? 

What's that?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I could never locate the WWE App but thanks to Michael Cole and his concise and absolutely not tedious tutorial I've no longer had that problem. Thanks Cole!


*CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy, Loser Leaves Town Cage Match, Smackdown (8/28/09)*

Great match and the perfect way to work an escape orientated cage match without it coming across as lazy choreographed spots. Both men are beaten and battered from the TLC at Summerslam 5 days prior and with both men's careers on the line as well as Punk's title, both men simply want to win and send the other packing for good. Perfect way for the numerous escapes to add to the story and make logical sense instead of detracting from the match. Loved how lethargic and physically weakened both men looked in everything they did which gave an excuse for the slow climbing and less frantic pace. Absolutely loved Punk spotting Hardy nearly escaping through the door, dropping down to cut him off and collapsing in agony before grasping onto his leg for dear life. There really wasn't much else to the match bar escapes but both men sold the injuries from Summerslam superbly and worked each escape attempt into a clear narrative that escalated in drama and smartly saved the biggest spot for near the end of the match (Punk catching Hardy and hitting a superplex to the mat) to heighten the growing risk with both men taking bigger bumps with every developing escape. Finish was a brilliant callback spot to their Bash title match with Punk using an eye poke to incapcitate Hardy long enough to drop him to the mat and fall to the floor cackling as he grabs his precious title. Post match assault by Punk on Hardy as he's saying goodbye to the crowd is still a brilliant tactic to draw nuclear heat.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Random Question - This has been running through my mind lately, Why was Warrior pushed, when it should of been Bret?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Warrior had the look Vince wanted - Bret didn't. This was before the smaller guys received title pushes (aside from Savage).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Taker/Cena
> Brock/Rock
> Trips/Punk
> 
> I could get behind that.




How bout this? 

Taker/Cena
Brock/Rock
Punk/Austin
Shield/Evolution


:mark


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My mind maybe a little fuzzy, but wasn't Bret as big as Warrior in actual size though, thus relieving Vince's obsessions.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hunter/Batista/Orton (w/Flair as manager) vs Ambrose/Reigns/Rollins could be GOAT material.

edit Think Warrior was a few inches taller and surely Bret wasn't as JACKED as Warrior.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Hunter/Batista/Orton (w/Flair as manager) vs Ambrose/Reigns/Rollins could be GOAT material.




It's currently one of the biggest matches they can do. I mean eventually shield needs to face a big time team. Could see this as an awesome summerslam or survivor series main event as well.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Was Warrior destined to lead the NG era?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They had him pin Hogan cleanly (something that never happened) at Wrestlemania (even more impressive), leading him to hold both major (IC title was a big deal then) singles titles simultaneously. I'd say they had big plans for him. Dude was a money grubber, though, and a certifiable nutjob to boot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched the June 2003 duo of Brock Vs Big Show matches. IMPRESSIVE.

Keepin' on blowin' my way through Lesnar's 2003 despite a few matches I couldn't find (I'll try and extract their whereabouts from you guys when the time comes and I need to see them to complete my watchings ). Consistency as usual, currently watching Angle/Lesnar/Gowen vs Haas/Benjamin/Show on the go home show for Vengeance.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Evan, what's your thoughts on the Cena/Lesnar Backlash 2003 match?


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Evan, what's your thoughts on the Cena/Lesnar Backlash 2003 match?


Not a big fan. It was ok, but a bit slow and plodding. It's a also a bit sad that it's Brock's first PPV title defense after winning at Wrestlemania and the crowd is somewhat indifferent to him. Even gets some boos and Cena gets "Let's Go Cena" chants. My how times have changed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My thoughts on that match? It was a good match, with both men working a really stiff style as most Cena matches were before 2006-2007 ish. There's a control segment by Cena in the match that I really dislike that drags the pacing down, but other than that I'm a fan. The match itself has a different feel to it that I can appreciate, the match felt raw (the best word I could find to describe it) to say the least. As far as snowflakes/stars go, I'd give it a ***** as I really, really love 80 percent of the match and what it accomplished. I'm one of it's biggest fans out there probably.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

It did feel a bit slow and plodding that's for sure. I liked Brock's opening segment where he just tears into Cena and shows him who's boss, but Cena's control segment once he gets on top is pretty bleh. The story they told was solid enough but once it got to the final third of the match it felt as if they weren't sure where to go and it felt a bit sloppy. I did actually give it ***** too when I watched it a few days ago. Cena wasn't ready for a title match at that point, surprising they gave him one on the PPV after Mania.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena has excluded a bunch of great movez from his arsenal the last couple years, The DDT & Spinebuster to name two.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Cena from Backlash is a sign of Cena's work growing over the years. Funny how he gets Brock on the defensive, re-opens up the cut on Brock's head, then proceeds to KILL all momentum & pacing by applying the chinlock with body scissors. Hated that part. Dragged the match down so much.

Overall it's above average at best. Cena would have far better before that match & after it in the same year.

***1/2*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They pretty much penciled in Brock & Cena as the two faces of the company headed into the future. No doubt we would have seen HHH Vs Brock headline Wrestlemania XXI & probably Brock Vs HBK & Brock Vs Cena at other Wrestlemanias as well. They gave Benoit & Eddie their moment at Wrestlemania XX and let them change the pace up a little bit, but by NO means were they supposed to be the faces of the company by any stretch. Once Brock left they pretty much needed to fill that void across from Cena, and they enlisted HHH to do it.

Pretty sure they tried to make it Orton but they royally fucked that up, leading to the whole Batista becoming the biggest star/second biggest star in the company situation.

I'm so pissed that we didn't get Brock Vs HBK, HBK is usually at his best against BIGZ as most faces of the company usually are (Cena, Bret, Hogan specifically come to mind).

EDIT: Just watched Lesnar turn heel in the steel cage with Angle & McMahon. This motherfucker was just BORN to be the greatest monster heel like... Ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I saw a muuuch better Lesnar/Cena match at my first live event either just before or just after Backlash 03 .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal seeing Rap Cena or me seeing Prototype live.

who wins?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I just watched Brock MURDER Brian Kendrick.

Everybody go watch the McMahon/Brock cage, Brock/Spanky, & Brock/Gowen in succession. It'll take like 15-17 minutes and you'll come out of it thinking Brock is GOD.

PROTOBOMB ALWAYS WINS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

and he squashed "The Fallen Angel" Christopher Daniels too. It was WWE vs TNA before TNA was created & Cena was even signed by _*then*_ WWF. 8*D

Ahhh, what a fun night.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brock faced Vince in a steel cage? That I have to see.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wait, that was an OVW show right?

That was around the same time they had Cena, Brock, Orton, Henry, Shelton, Batista, & the like?

Fuck. Cornette's OVW produced STARS man (I think Cornette ran that, not sure).

& Brock/Vince was simply a setup for Brock to DESTROY Kurt inside of the cage. Watching BROCK VS STEPHANIE NOW. The greatest monster heel & the greatest heel EVER teamed up is fucking... DAMN. There's a golden segment I'm watching now with Brock/Big Show/Stephanie/Vince/Sable where Brock and Vince set up Brock vs Stephanie and it's just awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Brock faced Vince in a steel cage? That I have to see.


Never actually happened. Brock was "attacked" backstage before the match. Angle was slated as guest ref, Vince was in the ring, Brock comes out - about to F5 Vince - passes out. Angle checks on Brock, Vince covers, Angle won't count & gets into a spat with Vinnie & then BAM. Brock leaps up to his feet - perfectly fine - & takes out Angle. Thus going heel & aligning with Vince.

If that sounded a tad confusing, then check this video out: _(I couldn't find the "match")_








The Beast Incarnate said:


> Wait, that was an OVW show right?
> 
> That was around the same time they had Cena, Brock, Orton, Henry, Shelton, Batista, & the like?
> 
> Fuck. Cornette's OVW produced STARS man (I think Cornette ran that, not sure).


Nah. UPW show in 2001. It's where Cena worked out prior to being signed by WWF.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wait, Brock faced Steph? :lmao

edit  thanks Cody


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vince was the devil in 2003.

And I love every single moment of it. Except for defeating The Undertaker at Survivor Series '03. Haha.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Bulldog & Owen vs. Mankind & Vader was second ranked MOTN at WM13, behind the obvious. Nice stiff contest, although the ending was meaninglessly terrible, The rest was pretty good, ***1/2.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7tr3r_mr-mcmahon-vs-brock-lesnar-steel-ca_sport#.UZJ5MbWThbo

There's a link to the Lesnar/McMahon cage "match". Not very good quality but it's the whole thing.

On the subject of Brock, I reeeeeeeally hope we get a match between him and Bryan before he's done. I know it's extremely unlikely and would have to involve quite the different direction for Bryan but hell, a guy can dream right? I mean if Bryan can get a big man vs little man match the quality of which he did out of Ryback, imagine what him and Brock fucking Lesnar could do. It could be glorious.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what I hear & have to expect. Haven't seen WrestleMania 13 in ages. I'm talking VHS days.

Except for Austin vs Hart which has been put on DVD since then.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I found the Nation of Domination vs Legion of Doom&A.Johnsons more enjoyable then that match


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

It seems like a match, Hayley will take liking too, possibly to even extreme measures. .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah aside from Hart/Austin, Mania 13 is pretty hazy.

Would also thoroughly adore a Bryan/Brock match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Meh, Never cared for NOD, Legion of Doom either.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brock/Bryan would be awesome no doubt. If TLC 2012 is any indication of how well Bryan can play the "babyface battling against the odds" role, then Brock/Bryan could be a classic. 

And truth be told, after this HHH feud is done, maybe Brock can get back to absolutely dominating his opponent's, and not backing down/getting his ass handed to him on nearly every occasion. A match against Bryan would be a perfect way to get him back on track, while also giving us Brock's first great match since his match with Cena at ER (unless by some miracle the cage match with HHH ends up being great).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WURST MAINIAAAAAA EVA LOL NO BUYZZZZ.

LOWEZT # OF BUYZ = BAD MAINIAAA FOR ALL DA PEOPLES LOL.

In all honesty though (this is going to sound ridiculous), they should have booked Brock/Cena like it was Batman/Bane & not Superman/Bane. I've outlined this before but I'll do it again how I would have liked Brock to have been booked from Mania XXVIII to Mania XXIX (which strangely enough involves Randy Orton):

- Randy Orton goes over Kane at Wrestlemania XXVIII.

- Orton's found the next night on RAW essentially EVISCERATED in the back. BROCK'S music hits and he drags Orton's body to the right and F-5's him right in the middle of it.

- Brock/Orton at Extreme Rules happens, Orton essentially gets beaten within an inch of his life and gets one move of offense the entire match, an RKO on the steel steps which Brock kicks out after a ONE COUNT. F-5 and Kimura lock snaps Orton's arm in half coinciding with Orton's "vacation" that he took a month later anyways

- Cena/Laurinatis main events Extreme Rules with BROCK interfering and destroying Cena, causing Laurinatis to beat Cena. Brock destroys Cena and it is revealed the next night that Johnny Ace brought Lesnar in to do his bidding as the new face of the company. The match between Cena & Lesnar is set to main event Summerslam & what we get is the exact same match as Extreme Rules bar the finish, which Brock kicks out of only for Brock to break the arm ALA HHH. The next night we get the same tout from Lesnar saying how he's leaving and blah blah blah... Cena takes time off.

- Cena & Lesnar stay away until the Royal Rumble, where Lesnar's music hits at #29 and he proceeds to throw 8-9 guys out in a very short span. Cena's music hits for 30 and Cena eliminates Brock, which leads to a Angle/HBK situation where Brock takes Cena out illegally and they brawl to the back.

- Brock is PISSED that he missed out on his Wrestlemania main event pay day, but will only take Cena on if Cena's career is on the line.

- Replace HHH with Cena and let Cena get his ultimate redemption on the grandest stage, taking 3 AA's on the steel steps and an STF locked in for minutes until Brock finally passes out. 

YEAH I know that theory has a ton of holes.... But yeah... That's what I wanted to happen .

STFU I'm not a fanboy...


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Brock/Sheamus is.a feud that I would love to see


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

TAKERZ CANZ NOT DRAW, WM13 ANDZ WM26 GOTZ LOW BUYRATEZ - Sharp_Shooter said.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> It seems like a match, Hayley will take liking too, possibly to even extreme measures. .


which one the Tag Championship or the Chicago Street Fight?

I do mark for The Nation.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Tag team match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Owen locks up again Foley & Vader. Yeah, I can see myself going ape whenever I relive it. It sounds like the coolest match on paper. Hate how I only remember it's crummy finish but nothing else from the match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Come to think about it, Taker should of taken on Vader in a First Blood match at WM13. It would of tied in well, with what happened at Final Four.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well considering what Undertaker got on that night; I'll say it's ok that their match took until July to happen.






HE DID IT


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Srdjan99 said:


> Brock/Sheamus is.a feud that I would love to see


That would be another great encounter. Really, what I want to absolutely see from Lesnar up to WM31 is (in no order besides the last one):

-Lesnar/Punk
-Lesnar/Bryan
-Lesnar/Sheamus
-Lesnar/Rock
-Lesnar/Cena II (Lesnar avenging his loss)
-Lesnar/Taker WM31


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I guess so, Plus my certain wanting may of changed the opponent selection for both Bret & Austin. No ***** match, Me sad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 13 had a terrible first half then a fun/good second half. Opening 4 way tag team thingy was bad, the best teams got eliminated early in a shitty way. Rock/Rikishi was terrible. Goldust/HHH was terrible. Then we got the tag title match that was a ton of fun and really good too. Austin/Hart is like, DUH territory for how great it is. LOD & Ahmed/NOD street fight is some awesomely fun chaotic shit that really resembles a street fight. Main event is good, but could have done with having 10 minutes shaved off it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Well considering what Undertaker got on that night; I'll say it's ok that their match took until July to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You'll be happy to know that I marked out like CRAZY when he won that night. I had completely forgotten about his initial title win when he beat Hogan, and I thought this was his first. I was legit yelling and clapping and started calling all my friends who didn't order the PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> WM 13 had a terrible first half then a fun/good second half. Opening 4 way tag team thingy was bad, the best teams got eliminated early in a shitty way. Rock/Rikishi was terrible. Goldust/HHH was terrible. Then we got the tag title match that was a ton of fun and really good too. Austin/Hart is like, DUH territory for how great it is. LOD & Ahmed/NOD street fight is some awesomely fun chaotic shit that really resembles a street fight. Main event is good, but could have done with having 10 minutes shaved off it.


Goldust having a bad match 

I remember being so mad when he lost too.



The Lady Killer said:


> You'll be happy to know that I marked out like CRAZY when he won that night. I had completely forgotten about his initial title win when he beat Hogan, and I thought this was his first. I was legit yelling and clapping and started calling all my friends who didn't order the PPV.


:mark:

My favorite part about 1997 from WWF. And then SummerSlam '97 happened and I was the most furious little guy ever.

The fun of this is I'm almost done with WCW in '97. Maybe I'll move onto WWF in '97 next. There has to be a torrent out there for all those PPVs...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Obfuscation said:


> Goldust having a bad match


Not his fault. HHH sucked back then. In fact based on his RR and WM matches that I watched earlier this year, it seems HHH didn't get good until his big push in late 99 :lmao. And he didn't last long in the "good" category .


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Gamblor said:


> That would be another great encounter. Really, what I want to absolutely see from Lesnar up to WM31 is (in no order besides the last one):
> 
> -Lesnar/Punk
> -Lesnar/Bryan
> ...


Bryan, Punk, Sheamus and Taker (provided he's up to it) hell yes. Rock and Cena not so much. As far as Rock goes, I'm a big fan of their Summerslam 02 match and with how Rock's been since returning, for me, there's no way they'll equal that let alone top it, so it just wouldn't massively interest me. I get that with both guys having bigger names than ever before it would be a spectacle and a huge draw, but for my money, it's just not an attractive prospect. There are other guys I would MUCH rather see face Brock, Mark Henry and a face Ziggler being amongst them. Hell maybe even something involving the Shield if they could work it properly (which I doubt they could).

As for Cena, for me they hit their peak with their sublime match at Extreme Rules, and I just really don't need to see them lock up again and fall short of that. Also, it would serve no purpose to have Brock avenge his loss. If they were going to have two matches, it's a no brainer that Cena should be the one who emerges the victor.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> Not his fault. HHH sucked back then. In fact based on his RR and WM matches that I watched earlier this year, it seems HHH didn't get good until his big push in late 99 :lmao. And he didn't last long in the "good" category .


I thought Foley got some quality matches out of Helmsley in '97. Other than that he was simply an awesome gimmick looking back. Oh and I love the match vs Owen @ WM 14. Can't forget that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thought the match with Owen was terrible. Reeeeaaally fucking bad. Trips controlling a match back then was just... bad. He killed everything. WM match with Goldust was looking great at the start when Dustin was doing the work.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Fuck me, they still trying to use Lawler to put over Fandango? The guy just isn't over, and Lawler isn't going to help him. Now we have about 3 people every week trying to be all cool and shit signing his theme song and that's it. Just let him die.


Fandango isn't over? He got more heat than Lesnar and Heyman did last night.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wrote that while watching his entrance on Raw. When nobody gave a shit about him until he attacked Jericho, someone they liked .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The crowd was shit in general. WWE needs to stop going to these no name southern towns filled with hicks in the crowd that sit on their hands all night. You'd think that a global organization that is always trying to make themselves look bigger than it actually is would tour bigger cities like New York, LA, Miami on a more frequent basis. Save the states like Oklahoma and Virginia for house shows.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

punk/rey 10

wm 26 ***1/2
ex 10 ***3/4
otl ***3/4


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

What's with McMahon thinking guys are over when they're not? 

Del Rio
Fandango
Ryback


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Umm... Fandango and Ryback are over with the crowd. Try again.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ryback is not as over as he was a few months ago. The shitty booking destroyed him


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Didn't you know?



Spoiler: Top Secret



RYBACK RULEZ


Del Rio is the worst though, legit. Never saw a guy who I gave less fucks about in and out of the ring EVER.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Fandango said:


> Umm... Fandango and Ryback are over with the crowd. Try again.




Fandango was only over one night. Post WM raw

Ryback hasn't been over since the 2013 Rumble

Del Rio? Don't think he's ever been over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ryback is over.

how could anyone say he isn't. besides...he's a heel. He shouldn't be getting pops as it is.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Fandango was only over one night. Post WM raw
> 
> Ryback hasn't been over since the 2013 Rumble
> 
> Del Rio? Don't think he's ever been over.


Fandango was getting heat even before Wrestlemania where he refused to compete.

Ryback has always been over with the crowd, whether he is heel or face. Even if he's being called Goldberg, he still generates a reaction which most of the roster can't do.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Ryback is over.
> 
> how could anyone say he isn't. besides...he's a heel. He shouldn't be getting pops as it is.




No, he is not. He doesn't even get heat anymore. People have lost so much interest in him it's clear as day . Biggest mistake wwe made with him was NOT winning the 2013 rumble.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't really HATE Ryback anymore, but I don't really like him either.

He's better than Kofi The Scrub/Big Tit-E/Shit Cara/The Jiz & the like by quite a margin.

+ Ryback as a heel means he gets to play to his strengths and work control segments.

& his promos are hilarious. I fucking LOSE IT whenever he says "RYBACKKKKKKK ... RUUUULLLEEZZZZZZ".


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The last thing WWE needs is another super face like Cena and Sheamus and that's exactly what would have happened if Ryback won the Rumble. Heel Ryback is a breath of fresh air and I dig it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Ryback hate has been way over the top. He's definitely a good control-segment wrestler. It worked perfectly in that TLC match with The Shield.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I reckon that's what's next; Cena/Henry feud while Ryback moves on to Sheamus.

& Yes, that means Henry goes over against Sheamus.

I'll take Ryback's work this year over ALOT of guys too. TLC W/ Punk, EC w/ Shield, SD w/ Bryan, SD W/Jericho. This year has actually been quite excellent when it comes to TV matches, I think with the sheer amount of content the WWE has been pumping out every week, they realized they needed RAW to have at least one longer match every week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> No, he is not. He doesn't even get heat anymore. People have lost so much interest in him it's clear as day . Biggest mistake wwe made with him was NOT winning the 2013 rumble.


Nope.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> The Ryback hate has been way over the top. He's definitely a good control-segment wrestler. It worked perfectly in that TLC match with The Shield.




You mean that match where he did the LEAST amount of work? Oh yeah I remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

ok, now it's a troll job.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wwe has aleast one *** 1/4 + tv match weekly which gets you to watch the shows ? what everyones top wwe matches of this year so far
I go

cena/punk feb 13
taker/Punk wm 29
6 man tag ec
ziggles/rio me
ziggles/rio sd


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I reckon that's what's next; Cena/Henry feud while Ryback moves on to Sheamus.
> 
> & Yes, that means Henry goes over against Sheamus.


Henry is definitely beating Sheamus I think. For some reason, they have just completely stopped pushing Sheamus and he's in an Orton-like role now. Also Henry has asked for a WWE Championship push since his return and he better get it because he deserves it! :henry1



xdoomsayerx said:


> You mean that match where he did the LEAST amount of work? Oh yeah I remember.


LOL. He was in control, destroying every Shield member for like 5 minutes in a row. And sure enough, he made that part entertaining enough. Try having Vladimir Kozlov or some other generic big men in that position and chances are, everyone would have fallen asleep by the time that portion had ended.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Ryback hate is hilarious. I remember someone making a thread the other day claiming that Ryback only wears a skull cap because he is being fed lines through an earpiece. 

The only thing I hate about his character is the booking but apart from that he is fine. Doesn't need to have the greatest mic skills in the world to be over and he certainly doesn't need to be the best wrestler in the roster.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm still not overly big on Ryback but he's doing far better than he was last year. He's shown that he can put on a good match against the right opponent and he actually has a little bit of depth now.

Can't say I'm against his current position.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ryback feels fresher to me as a heel. I can't say I was burnt out on him as a face, but something about the guy seems to feel more natural as a meat-head meanie. He's cut some solid promos immediately & has some quality matches to boot. I'm all for it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would actually go as far as to say that I enjoy Ryback more than I ever enjoyed Goldberg or Batista. Yes, he is not very talented or skilled, but something about him is either downright hilarious or just lighthearted fun. He also seems like a really nice down-to-earth guy that loves the business, which is more than I could say about the other two.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CODY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I would actually go as far as to say that I enjoy Ryback more than I ever enjoyed Goldberg or Batista. Yes, he is not very talented or skilled, but something about him is either downright hilarious or just lighthearted fun. He also seems like a really nice down-to-earth guy that loves the business, which is more than I could say about the other two.


I think Tough Enough showed he has passion for wrestling. Plus, I'd give him some credit as a power monster guy. He's capable of doing things well in that field. Nothing wrong if he benefits from someone really good leading him along in a match. He's got the tools enough to work well with the stronger talent to create something good.



King Kenny said:


> CODY


KENNY.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

RYBACK RULES. 

He's okay.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> BAH.
> 
> SATISFIED & OPTIMISTIC WITH YOUR WRESTLING PRODUCT!
> 
> ...


I wouldn't exactly say satisfied but fuck the world I'm trying to find light in the darkness. My new mentality towards watching WWE is really helping in that regard.

WWE UNIVERSE 

:vince2


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Still not a Ryback fan and probably never will be, but I have to give credit where the credit's due. He's been more than capable of participating in good matches given the right opponents like Shield, Punk, Bryan and Jericho. A guy like Kozlov couldn't even be involved in half decent matches with the likes of freaking Triple H, freaking Undertaker and freaking Michaels. Plus I watched him as Ryan Reeves (his real name, by the way) on Tough Enough and he's shown plenty of passion for wrestling, that I can respect.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like some Koslov matches. His match vs Festus in 2008 needs love. It's excellent.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Why are people talking Ryback when there is a four stars Haku match right here!?



Obfuscation said:


> *WCW Fall Brawl 1997​*
> Meng & Barbarian vs Mortis & Wrath ~ ******​
> I would go into great detail about why I think this or why I love it, but honestly the match was so simplistic with its bossy nature that what I could type up over the span of two paragraphs is nearly moot. You know how these guys work if you've seen 'em _(especially Mortis & Wrath circa '97)_ These four dudes beat the CRAP out of each other. Better yet, the fans marked hard for it. Which only further drives home the frustration of WCW not using any new faces past the midcard. I digress on their negligence in putting over the match some more. Meng was pro, per usual. Barbarian was rough, but Meng was about 10x rougher. He gets tagged in and Mortis & Wrath were screwed right from jump-street. Meng pulverized and pummeled. God damn he was the MAN. Mortis & Wrath continued to impress themselves. They actually had a hell of a year as a team. Kanyon was always one of my favorites growing up and it remains to this day. Guy was innovative. Managed to get a rise out of most crowds thanks to his offense that was never seen much from other WCW roster members. Then there is Wrath - who looking back, while I always liked him, was underrated - he came in not letting the Faces of Fear try and toss him around. Match brute force for brute force. Ah, it's brilliant this match. Replace a tad bit of the fun spots seen from the Mortis & Wrath vs Glacier & Miller tag from Bash at the Beach for more straightforward manly action and they're on the same plane. You like tag team wrestling, WCW's wonderful midcard, or any of these four? You'll adore this match. If not...well watch it and learn to love any or all of those aspects.
> 
> This ruled all.


You sold me on it when you called it a manlier Mortis/Wrath v. Glaicer/Miller. Even if it doesn't have the 'HOLY FUCKING SHIT' spots of the Glacier tag, I will take manliness in its place. Besides, how many matches have the 'HOLY FUCKING SHIT' spots that the Glacier tag does anyway? If it wasn't for the 2000s I'm watching I would go watch a bunch of 1997 WCW tags and I'm being totally honest saying that. Eddie/Jericho v. FOF, Benoit/Mongo v. Jarrett/Eddie x2, Mortis/Wrath v. Glacier/Cat. Those rule as it is and there could be more like them. Maaaaan I need to do that someday.


EDIT - Kozlov/HHH was truly awful. Was that Helmsley's attempt at matwork or something? Kind of felt like 2003 HHH.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I wouldn't exactly say satisfied but fuck the world I'm trying to find light in the darkness. My new mentality towards watching WWE is really helping in that regard.
> 
> WWE UNIVERSE
> 
> :vince2


I _try_ that as well, but...

-Punk's out for the time being
-Taker's out for the time being
-Barrett and Sandow are in jobber mode right now, and have been for months (even with one of them having the IC Title)
-None of the main time-given feuds have been mediocre at best(Cena/Ryback, Lesnar/HHH, Del Rio/Swagger/Ziggler, Jericho/Fandango, etc.)
-Faces are all corny, crowd-pleasing clones of Cena
-Heels are all cowards, even Ryback

Shield's the only good thing going right now, but even I've grown a little bit tired of them. And after Lesnar leaves, which probably means Heyman takes a break as well... I just don't know how I'll come to enjoy the show. Maybe then it'll be time for a break... but fuck I don't know if I can. I never have anything to do Monday nights and watching Raw has become a force of habit. I mean I thought I'd be able to stop the week after Taker's Raw match with The Shield, but I found myself watching a week later. Plus the discussion thread is always there to entertain me when Raw fails.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Chavo Guerrero vs Evan Bourne, ECW (10/14/08)*

Great match. Not the biggest advocate of Chavo although plenty of people seem to think far less of him but he was very good here as was Bourne. Match is a qualifier for the Cyber Sunday vote to face Matt Hardy for the title so its worked at a more frenetic pace from the outset. Loved the early chain wrestling from both men which for the brief time it was present wasn't worked in an overly choreographed way and Bourne continually finding ways to counter and send Chavo on his arse was a nice little theme that built beautifully into Bourne's great dive to the floor. Middle sees Chavo in control and grounding Bourne including a really well timed rolling kappo kick as a nifty cut off spot. Amazing spot when Bourne briefly fights back and looks to hit a top rope hurricanrana only for Chavo to drop to the floor as Bourne is in mid flight and have Bourne crotch himself on the buckle and crash to the mat. Can't recall ever seeing that spot in my life before and it looked a corker. Chavo hit everything nicely and they work a fine finish with Bourne countering the three amigos with a knee strike in midair sending Chavo to the corner and in a nice callback to the early crash and burn hurricanrana spot Bourne his a jumping hurricanrana with Chavo perched on the second rope and his AirBourne for the win. Really simple match packed with some great Bourne offence, a nice little theme of Bourne continually out-thinking and frustrating Chavo and some impressive spots timed and executed nicely. Post match Henry assault is wonderful including a great sarcastic handshake to a lifeless Bourne.


*Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble, Smackdown (11/2/07)*

This can't touch their classic '04 encounter on Velocity, but its still a damn great sub 10 minute affair. Noble is such an overlooked talent. Works interesting control segments, bumps and can sell very smartly and put over his opponent's comebacks and just executes everything smoothly. His grappling and more methodical style perfectly compliments Mysterio's explosive offence and the intricate chemistry is evident again here. Brilliant transition spot sees Noble doing a modified TKO out of a powerbomb and dropping Mysterio neck first across the ropes and from there Noble has a flawless workover of Mysterio's arm. Little touches like slamming Mysterio out trapping the arm to absorb the impact just demonstrate Noble's ability to add flair and visually impressive moves into a match but keep them grounded in a logical manner to enhance the story. Mysterio's TV formula is ridiculously consistent and once again he shines working underneath and relying far more on his strikes and a excellent midair fujiwara armbar counter to try and overcome Noble. Loved Mysterio running the ropes with his right arm dangled into his chest and how Noble continuously had enough time to cut Rey's comeback off thanks to Mysterio's injury. Finish is well worked with Noble countering the springboard senton into an attempted Tiger Driver only for Mysterio to counter midair and score the flash win. Classy match and fine evidence of their chemistry.


*Rey Mysterio vs William Regal, Smackdown (7/14/06)*

Nifty little match here. Booker is on commentary to hype his title match vs Mysterio and Regal is a member of his Court and acting basically as a henchman to weaken and rough up Mysterio in preparation for the PPV bout. You get some pretty great counter sequences with Regal finding ways to contain and cut off Rey's momentum, such as a bossy release throw when Rey attempts his inverted bulldog/faceplant manoeuvre. Regal's also got some typically unique attacks against Rey including a nasty big boot with Mysterio's head resting against the ringpost and there's this great little spot where Regal has his leg draped over Mysterio's throat whilst conversing innocently with the ref. Pantomine villain esque tactics like that is why I love Regal so much as a heel. Just an infinitely entertaining dickhead. There's a really great spot early on where Sharmell distracts the referee whilst Regal has Mysterio held in the air before crotching him on the top rope behind the ref's back and later in the match when Booker also attempts to draw the referee out of position Mysterio this time uses it to his advantage and hits a baseball slide down low to Regal who of course has a majestic facial expression. Finishing stretch isn't anything too dynamic but has a fine ending sequence and sees Booker get his comeuppance in addition to a post match cheapshot by Mysterio. Very good match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Why are people talking Ryback when there is a four stars Haku match right here!?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It really is. Which you can find believable with MENG & Barbarian in the mix. Meng was on a different level by his work in '97. Replace some nifty, super spots that the BATB tag had with clubberin _(and one AWESOME spot for the time frame of '97 & the men involved)_ and you have a rad tag match. _(get it? Rad TAG.)_

I should find the Horseman vs New Horseman tags you speak of. Nitros were stopped around Fall Brawl time when those matches happened so I missed em up till this point. If they're good, I'll def go search them out. It's Jarrett being involved that shocks me. Mongo not so much. He's honestly pulled his weight when he needed. Jarrett HASN'T in the slightest during '97. Eddie as his partner may have been the only saving grace.

Speaking of more tags from '97 - can't forget about all of the Lucha matches _(the one where Super Calo flies into the audience is stellar. I'll remember the date later)_ & some fun Public Enemy tags. Do think the one vs High Voltage - yeah, I know it's insane - in a Street Fight was specifically fun. Don't get me started on the main event from Slamboree '97. Holy CRAP that had no business being as awesome as it is. Or the wild No DQ tag from Fall Brawl between Savage/Hall vs DDP/Luger. The ending is trashy, but the rest of it is fun to the point of where it's like "oh well." Hall shoves Luger in-between the two rings at Fall Brawl + Hall & Savage toss DDP from ring to ring a few times in what was legit human ping pong. Spots like that make watching soooooo worth it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

@Ingham - the post-match sarcastic Henry handshake is even better given that Bourne gave Henry a fake-out handshake before the match. That Chavo/Bourne is really, really great. My WWE MOTY for 2008 and I completely mean that. 

@Cody Both the Eddie/Jarrett v. Mongo/Benoits happen back-to-back weeks, I think. I don't really remember which the best was, but I'm pretty one would make my top 10-15 Nitro matches. I think I said so in the WCW thread you made. Might go look for what I said there. Probably won't. I won't.

oh shit yeah, the best uslucha tags in WCW in 97 were really good, too. And some involve motherfucking la Parka.

Not from 97, but the early 1998 Eddie/Jericho v. Malenko/Chavo is a tremendous sub-fifteen (twelve? ten?) minute match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I thought WM18 was a really good one, Seen people hail it as one of the worst of all time.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> I thought WM18 was a really good one, Seen people hail it as one of the worst of all time.




Agreed. Definitely not even in consideration as WOAT. 

29
27
16
15
13
11
9
2

All worse.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Still can't get over how the Brock Vs Benoit match & Brock Vs Mysterio match occur in back to back weeks. Absolutely amazing, both were completely different while both were some of the best work I've ever seen out of Brock. Of course it doesn't hurt to be in there with maybe 2 of the 3 greatest workers in North American history (DEFINITELY Top 5), but I'm coming out of these matches fucking impressed with how great Lesnar is. My DEFINITE WOTY for 2003.

OH GOD. BROCK LESNAR VS SHANNON MOORE IS UP NEXT. IF THIS IS THE MATCH I THINK IT IS :mark:.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Still can't get over how the Brock Vs Benoit match & Brock Vs Mysterio match occur in back to back weeks. Absolutely amazing, both were completely different while both were some of the best work I've ever seen out of Brock. Of course it doesn't hurt to be in there with maybe 2 of the 3 greatest workers in North American history (DEFINITELY Top 5), but I'm coming out of these matches fucking impressed with how great Lesnar is. My DEFINITE WOTY for 2003.
> 
> OH GOD. BROCK LESNAR VS SHANNON MOORE IS UP NEXT. IF THIS IS THE MATCH I THINK IT IS :mark:.


I like this better than the Cena marking.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just finished orton/cena ss 07, good match around the ****1/4 mark for me and their best one-one match imo


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big Z said:


> CODY!


WHERE THE HELL HAS THIS GUY BEEN!?



redskins25 said:


> wwe has aleast one *** 1/4 + tv match weekly which gets you to watch the shows ? what everyones top wwe matches of this year so far
> I go
> 
> cena/punk feb 13
> ...


 *# 5* - The Shield vs. John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback (_WWE Elimination Chamber_) - ******
*# 4 *- *#1 Contender's Elimination Chamber Match: *Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kane vs. Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry (_WWE Elimination Chamber_) *- *****
*# 3 - No Holds Barred Career Threatening Match: *Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H (_WWE Wrestlemania XXIX_) - ******
*#2 - #1 Contender's Match: *John Cena vs. CM Punk (_WWE RAW 2/25_) - ***** 1/4*
*#1 - *The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (_WWE Wrestlemania XXIX_) - ***** 1/4*


Punk Jericho RAW, Sheamus/Ziggler Main Event, & Del Rio/Ziggler Main Event were all very good as well. Let's not forget Regal vs. Ohno either.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 WWE Matches this year:

(****1/2)
1) Taker/Punk WM29 
(****)
2) Taker/Bryan/Kane vs. The Shield Raw 4/22/2013
(***3/4)
3) Jericho/Ryback/Sheamus vs. The Shield Raw 2/18/2013
4) Punk/Cena Raw 2/25/2013
(***1/2)
5) Elimination Chamber match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ i still have not seen ziggles/fella from main event


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Rewatched Taker/Mankind KOTR 1996 & IYH: The Revenge Of The Taker to find out which was better, thus the best in the series. It's pretty close, both at ****1/4 but i'm gonna have to give the nod to KOTR, considering how innovative it was at the time and how new certain spots were. For example, chair shots, In crowd brawling & hatred promoted feud.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^ i still have not seen ziggles/fella from main event


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwn2qj_wwe-main-event-1-9-13-full-show-hq_sport#.UZL45crp-KI

(Y) *** 3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top WWE Matches of 2013 (So Far)

#1. CM Punk Vs John Cena (RAW 2/25) - _**** 1/2_

#2. CM Punk Vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIX) - _**** 1/2_

#3. The Shield Vs John Cena/Sheamus/Ryback (Elimination Chamber) - _**** 1/4_

#4. CM Punk Vs Ryback (TLC; Raw 1/7) - _*** 3/4_

#5. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIX) - _*** 3/4_

#6. The Shield Vs The Undertaker/Team Hell No - _*** 3/4_

#7. The Shield Vs Sheamus/Big Show/Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXIX) - _*** 3/4_

#8. The Shield Vs Sheamus/Ryback/Jericho (RAW 2/18?) - _*** 1/2_

The top three classics destroy everything else this year, w/ the top two pretty much neck and neck. I'm expecting this to become shaken up tremendously after Sunday however, when I believe the tornado tag & Brock/HHH could both find their way here. Need to see these Ziggler-Del Rio matches as well as Regal-Ohno whenever I wanna watch them.

If I could chop up WOTY & give it to SHIELD I probably would, but when it comes to singles competition; nobody touches Punk and I seriously believe it's going to stay that way. So what he had that ALL TIME MINDBLOWINGLY BAD match with Rock at the Rumble & the mediocre rematch... It wasn't HIS fault. CM Punk is the hands down WOTY as of right now IMO, and since he should be back in a few weeks (Let's be real, he's going to be at Payback) I don't see that changing unless Cena gets better quality opponents or Danielson gets a singles run.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ definitely recommend the ziggler/del rio series loved the main event one
@ Corey thanks man gonna get it a watch, is better than nwo ?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Top 2013 matches: 

1. Cena/Punk RAW. ****1/4

2. Punk/Taker WM. ****1/4

3. cena/sheamus/ryback vs shield EC. ****

4. Ziggler/Del Rio ME. ***3/4

5. Cesaro/Kingston. ***1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^ definitely recommend the ziggler/del rio series loved the main event one
> @ Corey thanks man gonna get it a watch, is better than nwo ?


Wish I could answer, but haven't seen that one yet.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Been awhile since I've been on here and posted, I'm liking Evan finally getting rid of the Cena lover gimmick :cena3 

Top 5 matches of the Year : 

1. Undertaker vs Cm Punk (Wrestlemania XXIX) ***** 1/4*
2. John Cena vs Cm Punk (Raw 2/25) ***** 1/4*
3. The Shield vs John Cena/Sheamus/Ryback (Elimination Chamber) ******
4. Kassius Ohno vs William Regal (NXT) ******
5. The Shield vs Undertaker/Team Hell No (Raw) **** 3/4*


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

1) CM Punk vs The Undertaker WrestleMania 29- ★★★★1/4
2) CM Punk vs John Cena RAW 2013- ★★★★1/4
3) Cena/Sheamus/Ryback vs The Shield Elimination Chamber 2013- ★★★★ 
4) Kassius Ohno vs William Regal NXT 2013- ★★★★1/2 
5) The Shield vs Undertaker/Team Hell NO RAW- ★★★★

Also can't forget about that awesome Jericho/Punk match on RAW earlier in the year. ★★★★1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ziggler/fella ****1/4

much better than their nwo match up, great back and forth action between the two. great match

top 5 of 13 so far

1)Cena/Punk feb 13 ****1/2
2Punk/Taker wm 29 ****1/2
3)ZIggler/fella me ****1/4
4)ziggler/ del rio me ****
5) 6 man tag ec ****

Has main event since it started had better matches than on raw ?

:ziggler1 for darkhorse WOTY :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

STARBUCK said it best SMIG; CENATION isn't a gimmick, it's a way of life.

Still gonna be rocking my new "The Champ Is Here" tee that I got in the mail the other day for Extreme Rules as I REALLY don't want Ryback to be champion. I don't HATE Ryback at this point at all; I just REAAALLLYYY don't want him to be champion. Plus besides a few guys (Punk, HHH, Lesnar ... MAYBE Bryan because Cena really doesn't need the belt and Bryan kind of deserves it), I'd rather have Cena with the belt anyways.... The fact that there hasn't been a first time WWE Champion in nearly two years will make the next guy who wins it THAT much special.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> @Cody Both the Eddie/Jarrett v. Mongo/Benoits happen back-to-back weeks, I think. I don't really remember which the best was, but I'm pretty one would make my top 10-15 Nitro matches. I think I said so in the WCW thread you made. Might go look for what I said there. Probably won't. I won't.
> 
> oh shit yeah, the best uslucha tags in WCW in 97 were really good, too. And some involve motherfucking la Parka.
> 
> Not from 97, but the early 1998 Eddie/Jericho v. Malenko/Chavo is a tremendous sub-fifteen (twelve? ten?) minute match.


They are. I looked up the results last night and my memory is more than certain that's true. I'll probably go watch them right now. If I find them. I should make up a list from '97 right now. Well, get one started. I still have WW3 & Starrcade left. Although I'm certain nothing from Starrcade will make the cut. Last time I watched Eddie vs Dean I thought it was pretty good, but nothing great. Kind of a better version than Uncensored yet still not as good as it should have been. That can always change. idk anything from WW3. That should be a fun ride.

La Park & Super Calo in the same match was the one I was actually referring to. Calo, Juvi, & Garza vs Parka, Damien, & Ciclope from 5/26/97. All kinds of YES. Bless WCW for these matches. Even when the terrible Villano V couldn't bring the matches down. _(why was one of the Villano's very bad but the other was a decent rudo to bully around the smaller technicos?)_

Speaking of sub-10 minute matches I watched Wrath vs Mike Enos today from...I believe March of '99 _(Thunder)_ & it kind of rocks. You seen it? Thinking of doing a Wrath project sometime down the line.




GOATAntics said:


> Rewatched Taker/Mankind KOTR 1996 & IYH: The Revenge Of The Taker to find out which was better, thus the best in the series. It's pretty close, both at ****1/4 but i'm gonna have to give the nod to KOTR, considering how innovative it was at the time and how new certain spots were. For example, chair shots, In crowd brawling & hatred promoted feud.


Hell yes. I LOVE both those matches. In fact, most of their matches. But yes yes yes @ the KOTR plug. Hot damn that's a stellar match.

-------------

WWE MOTYC List: _(I've bolded my top five.)_



Spoiler: MOTYC List



1) WWE Championship - Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match
CM Punk(c) vs Ryback - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 1/7)

2) Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2 (Main Event - 1/9)

3) Kane & Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 2/1)

4) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 2/4)

5) Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger - ***1/2 (NXT - 2/6)

6) NXT Tag Team Championship Tournament Finals
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - ***1/2 (NXT - 2/13)

*7) John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - **** (Elimination Chamber - 2/17) - #3*

8) Chris Jericho, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 2/18)

*9) John Cena vs CM Punk - **** (Monday Night RAW - 2/25) - #2*

10) The Shield vs Big Show, Sheamus, & Randy Orton - ***1/2 (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

*11) The Undertaker vs CM Punk - ****1/4 (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7) - #1*

*12) No Holds Barred Match
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - **** (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7) - #5*

*13) William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - ****1/4 (NXT - 4/10) - #2*

14) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/19)

15) The Shield vs The Undertaker, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/22)

16) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Adrian Neville - ***1/2 (NXT - 4/24)

17) No Holds Barred Match
Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/26)

18) Big Show vs Sheamus - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 4/26)

19) The Shield vs John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/29)

20) Ryback vs Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 5/3)

21) Elimination Match
John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 5/13)



Honorable mentions from WWE this year:



Spoiler: The Other List



*NXT:*

Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger vs Alex Riley & Derrick Bateman (1/30)

Justin Gabriel vs Leo Kruger (2/27)

Conor O'Brien vs Corey Graves vs Bo Dallas (3/6)

Justin Gabriel vs Leo Kruger (3/20)

Luke Harper vs Adrian Neville (3/20)

Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Adrian Neville & Bo Dallas (4/3)

Justin Gabriel vs Leo Kruger (4/17)

Wade Barrett vs Bo Dallas (4/24)

Paige vs Summer Rae (5/1)

Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt (5/1)

Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Adrian Neville & Bo Dallas (5/8)


*Main Event:*

Kane vs Antonio Cesaro (3/27)

Mike Mizanin vs Prime Time Players (4/3)

The Shield vs Tons Of Funk & Kofi Kingston

Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston


*Smackdown:*

Big Show & Mark Henry vs Sheamus & Randy Orton (4/19)

The Undertaker vs Dean Ambrose (4/26)

Kane vs Dean Ambrose (5/3)

Daniel Bryan vs Dean Ambrose (5/10)

Chris Jericho vs Ryback (5/10)


*RAW:*

Tables Match
Sheamus vs Damien Sandow (1/28)

Ryback vs Antonio Cesaro (2/4)

Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio (2/4)

Chris Jericho vs Daniel Bryan (2/11)

Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger (2/18)

Ryback vs Dolph Ziggler (2/25)

Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler (3/11)

No DQ Match
CM Punk vs Kane (3/11)

Antonio Cesaro vs Alberto Del Rio (4/29)


*Saturday Morning Slam:*

Sheamus vs Michael McGillicutty (1/19)

Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel (3/2)

Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan (4/13)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> STARBUCK said it best SMIG; CENATION isn't a gimmick, it's a way of life.
> 
> Still gonna be rocking my new "The Champ Is Here" tee that I got in the mail the other day for Extreme Rules as I REALLY don't want Ryback to be champion. I don't HATE Ryback at this point at all; I just REAAALLLYYY don't want him to be champion. Plus besides a few guys (Punk, HHH, Lesnar ... MAYBE Bryan because Cena really doesn't need the belt and Bryan kind of deserves it), I'd rather have Cena with the belt anyways.... The fact that there hasn't been a first time WWE Champion in nearly two years will make the next guy who wins it THAT much special.


If I continually post on here and don't get lazy again, just call me Sam (Y) 

Fair enough :lmao maybe I need to adopt the CENATION way of life, perhaps ill enjoy Raw much more :cena3


Me neither there are far more deserving stars then Ryback at this instance, I don't hate him just believe there are better choices at this point. I actually don't mind Cena having the belt, he is the top guy and hasn't had it for awhile. But I honestly can't wait to see who will be the next new WWE champ.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

@CODY I DON'T FEEL LIKE QUOTING 

I haven't seen Wrath v. Enos, but Enos in 1999 could possibly honestly be one of the ten best workers in the US (saying something? Not really, but some dunno who Enos even is and he was good) that year. So yeah, I really want to watch it. I'm not finished my Enos-viewing. Pretty much ever. I might watch every Enos match that's online. I'm prob half done already (I hope I'm not :sad

Looking forward to your WCW97 list :mark: :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dude, the first thing running through my mind while watching Wrath vs Enos was "I swear this match has 90% of matches in the WWF beat circa '99". Dead serious pardon a few matches from SummerSlam & the Hardys vs E&C Ladder match. WCW may have had its share of crap come '99, but at least when the wrestling was quality it _was QUALITY_. Not WWF's brand of "brawling" that sometimes formulated into a good match. Those were so few and far between that all of it nearly becomes a blur. I hate the Attitude Era so much when it comes to a lot of the matches.

Oh, Austin vs Rock from Backlash '99 ruled everything too. That's probably my favorite WWF match from '99, tbhayley.

btw I'll post the link for Wrath vs Enos right now if you want...8*D  (as I say this YES @ both Triple B vs Wrath matches from '99 being on youtube. So is Enos vs Benoit. Same PPV :mark


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit v. Enos from Souled Out would probably be WWF 1999 MOTY if it happened there. WCW might have five-six matches in 99 that are better than anything WWF did. I can see why people like the Hardys/Edge & Christian ladder but I'm not really one for multi-dude ladder matches any more. I don't dislike it, though. 

I don't even know what I'd call WWF MOTY for 99. Austin/Rock at Backlash and the best Rock/Foley are fun. I really liked the Shamrock lion's den with whoever (Blackman?) a few years ago. I liked Austin/HHH/Foley as well, but I have no idea how that would hold up. I should watch Taker/Shamrock.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Shield are taking what six man tags, which was a fairly stale concept, and banging out high quality matches. At the moment they're by far WOTY (collectively).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always going to dig the Ladder Match. Watch it so many times that it's engraved in my mind. Plenty grand for me. Yeah, Shamrock vs Blackman at SummerSlam in the Lion's Den with Weapons. It rocks. Not as good as Shamrock vs Hart the year prior, but plenty good itself. Austin vs Mankind vs Trips was good when I watched the event last time. I was surprised, quite frankly. I still love Undertaker & Show vs Kane & X-Pac. Something about SummerSlam '99 connects with me on a lot more than other PPVs. It does have some crap on it - Rock vs Gunn & Women's Championship. Doesn't hurt since those were expected to be terrible.

Taker vs Shamrock. </3 Legit one of the biggest disappointments I've ever seen. Then again, only seen it about twice. I could use a rewatch. Boiler Room Brawl between Foley vs Show, omg. Forgot about that wild ride.

Bigelow vs Wrath I was awesome. War from the start and the ref didn't have any clue on what to do. I love it. Souled Out should be one swell rematch. Feeling like the fans will crap on the match though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You gonna watch Bigelow v. Hak sometime? :mark:

I LOVE Shamrock/Owen. 

You know I remember the buried alive tag team match (Taker/Show v. Mankind....?) being one of the better WWF matches of 99.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

How you gonna mention Summerslam '99 and NOT bring up Shane O'Mac vs. Test. :no:

2nd best of match of '99 off the top of my head behind Austin/Rock at Backlash.

EDIT: Yeah nm, totally forgot the No Mercy Ladder match... so 3rd.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker/Austin First Blood probably ranks 2nd or 3rd on the 1999 MOTY List, depending on where both Austin/Rock BL & No Mercy Ladder matches are placed. I hate Rock/Mankind after current rewatch.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The Tag Team Buried Alive match is one of my favorite matches ever. :mark:

I can't we have more gimmick matches on weekly TV?  (Rhetorical question)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> You gonna watch Bigelow v. Hak sometime? :mark:
> 
> I LOVE Shamrock/Owen.
> 
> You know I remember the buried alive tag team match (Taker/Show v. Mankind....?) being one of the better WWF matches of 99.


I got that match via the entire PPV on dvd. I'll probably watch it tonight just for the sheer fun of it. :mark: _(And JUVI vs BLITZKRIEG + Raven/Saturn vs Benoit/Malenko too)_

As do I. Stole that PPV if not the whole '98 year for me...if it wasn't for some premiere matches from May & June. Top three off the top of my head.

Haven't seen that since it aired. I remember the insane Foley bump. That's it. Is it on youtube? Idk. Feeling like I should try and see what I can find from WWF '99.

Bigelow vs Wrath II - aka Souled Out '99 - sucked.  Bigelow used a chinlock for most of the match and then Wrath doesn't even get much of a comeback. It was...weird. They brawled like monsters on Nitro. Here comes PPV and it's a phoned in performance by Triple B. What? Why? He hardly did that ever in WCW? Why that night? I'm jipped. I need to find Wrath vs Meng ASAP.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> How you gonna mention Summerslam '99 and NOT bring up Shane O'Mac vs. Test. :no:
> 
> 2nd best of match of '99 off the top of my head behind Austin/Rock at Backlash.


WAIT THAT MATCH RULES THE WORLD.

Another big reason as to why I'm such a fan of SummerSlam '99. Plus Al Snow vs Big Boss Man. Unforgiven '99 never happened...



GOATAntics said:


> Taker/Austin First Blood probably ranks 2nd or 3rd on the 1999 MOTY List, depending on where both Austin/Rock BL & No Mercy Ladder matches are placed. I hate Rock/Mankind after current rewatch.


Yeah, another top flight match for me when it comes to WWF '99. Maybe I'll warm up to Undertaker vs Rock from KOTR if I take the time to watch it tonight. Dunno. Part of me has always dug Undertaker in it, but hated Rock during it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I too dug Taker/Rock, I pimped it out to Oliver as Taker/Rock's best match. I switched (a lot) between this one & NWO 2002 as the best in their series. It's kinda hard to choose, .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

look at what I found. The precursor! _(they had a match on Saturday Night before this but sweet science I bet that is damn near impossible to locate.)_

Sub-five minutes and all kinds of good. The build it prepares for come Fall Brawl is immense. I love WCW so much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

20 Favorite 1999 Matches (Oh god help me!):

*****3/4*
E&C/Brood NM
*****1/2*
Rock/Mankind RR
*****1/4*
Taker/Austin FL
******
Austin/Rock BL 
Austin/HHH NM
****3/4* 
Mankind/Rock 2/15
HHH/X-Pac BL 
Rock/Undertaker 6/28
Test/Shane SS
Rock/Mankind 1/4
Rock/Mankind IYH: SVDM (God damn, Foley)
****1/2*
Buried Alive Tag Match
Rock/Undertaker KOTR
6-Pack Match (Needs rewatch, and will most likely drop down)
Rock/HHH FL
Rock/Venis 10/7
Rock/Show vs. Austin/Mankind 3/15
Rock/Austin WM
Summerslam Triple Threat
Rock/HHH Rebellion

My goodness was that year so empty. Maybe there are some hidden gems out there, such as the Venis/Snow 5-minute match on RAW, but other than that this was a crap year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't care much for X-Pac vs Game tbhayley. Thought it could have been solid then it ended up boring me when Trips was doing his ultra bland back work the entire match. X-Pac's babyface work tried hard. Couldn't rope me into things.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I still love this match. It's great. I'm about to watch it again.

I give it 4 stars considering it was on TV. They need to do Champion vs. Champion more frequently in the future.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Champions vs Champions BS happens all the time.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

It doesn't feel like it does.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're watching a different WWE by the sound of it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Someone tear this bloke apart - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/806858-wtf-so-impressive-about-punk-vs-taker-wm.html


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trolls are never worth it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That's why I like this thread. The trolls usually oversee it and has smart, respectable posters for the most part.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Shawn/Trips - Taboo Tuesday 2004 - Leg work was not too shabby by The Game, Shawn's selling was balanced as well. However, Too many dead moments and the predictable finish drop it down to that "solid" range. *(**3/4)*, I was hoping they could recreate the magic in their RAW 2003 match, considering there was no pointless gimmick match to handicap the quality. Sadly no.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That match is probably my favorite from Trips & Michaels.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WWE does those champion vs champion matches all the time and they make it feel less and less meaningful every time. 

I liked the TT '04 encounter between Trips and Shawn. Raw '03 is my favorite, then that and I can still enjoy the street fight in '02. But my god the 3SOH and HIAC are awful. And I can't even remember the LMS. Too lazy to watch a match that long that seems so awful though.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

GOATAntics said:


> Someone tear this bloke apart - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/806858-wtf-so-impressive-about-punk-vs-taker-wm.html





Obfuscation said:


> Trolls are never worth it.


Calling the OP of that thread a troll is like glorifying his stupidity. You are bedazzling his poop.

Have some trouble getting motivated to watch some stuff. Especially Steamboat/Flair WW. Read some greatness reviews from GAB89 in the past, Sting/Muta, Luger/Steamboat, Funk/Flair & a WarGames. Usually irresistable. Watched half the show (the undercard) and it's slightly low quality has put me off watching the main events, despite THAT card. I am also struggling to find a match in WCW where Dr Death Steve Williams doesn't make wrestling look bad. Any ratingzz to throw around for the first two of those matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trips vs HBK Last Man Standing is a struggle to watch. Such a forced display. So bad.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Royal Rumble 2004 is the first pay-per-view I ever watched and it will always hold a special place in my heart. I enjoyed the HHH/HBK Last Man Standing match, but even I'll admit, HBK missing the moonsault and crashing through the announce table then coming back with a crimson mask makes absolutely no sense now that I look back..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's almost like Shawn's shoulder hitting the post at WM 23 and then having his wig split when the camera pans back on him.

8*D


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/HHH is the only bad LMS ever. Or is it? Any other bad LMS? When you think about it that's a gimmick that's always done well.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Michaels/Trips LMS is worse than 3SOH for me. Both are near duds tho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ummmmmmm.

I didn't care for Punker vs Orton in 2011. Oh I didn't like Show vs Del Rio I & I hated Show vs Del Rio II from this year.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Cena/Del Rio was really bad too


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

nah, that one was radical. Total blast. Del Rio was a bumping machine in it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

95 - 99 MOTYs.

1995: Bret/Diesel - Survivor Series 

HM: Shawn/Jarret - IYH 2. Shawn/Razor Summerslam.

1996: Shawn/Mankind - Mind Games

HM: Austin/Bret - Survivor Series. Taker/Mankind - KOTR, Buried Alive, SSlam & SSeries. Austin/Vega - Beware Of Dog. Shawn/Vader - Summerslam.

1997: Taker/Shawn - Bad Blood OR Austin/Bret - WM13

HM: Final Four 4 Way. Taker/Mankind IYH: Revenge Of The Taker. Shawn/Austin vs. Bulldog/Owen RAW. Canadian Stampede 10 Man Tag. Taker/Bret ONO and SSlam. Austin/Owen - SSlam.

1998: Foley/Funk - Falls Count Anywhere - RAW, May 3rd (Personal Pick, )

HM: Taker/Kane - WM14. Austin/Kane - KOTR. Owen/Shamrock - Lions Den Match. Shawn/Taker - Rumble. Rock/Trips - Summerslam. Austin/Dude Love - Over The Edge. Taker/Mankind - KOTR.

1999: Taker/Austin - Fully Loaded OR No Mercy Ladder Match

HM: Rock/Austin - Backlash. Rock/Trips - Rebellion. Test vs. Shane - Summerslam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I get the most entertainment out of Foley vs Funk more than anyone. I'm in stitches during the whole thing & loving the match at the same time.

Austin on commentary. Man, that was a smart move.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Fandango said:


> Cena/Del Rio was really bad too



It's subjective of course, but I love that much. It's unique, the ring being like it was and Del Rio and Cena have great chemistry. 

Going back and checking The Beast Incarnate's top 100 Cena matches, I think 38 is a fair spot for it. If I made a Cena list it would probably be a little higher, I'll throw **** at it.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> I get the most entertainment out of Foley vs Funk more than anyone. I'm in stitches during the whole thing & loving the match at the same time.
> 
> Austin on commentary. Man, that was a smart move.


YES, YES, YES. Two old friends going balls out in a rule free, fight zone. ****1/2, I don't care, tell me i'm stretching it. GUARANTEED TOP 10 RAW MATCH.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Speaking of LMS, I need to rewatch Kane vs. SHANE'O~ from Unforgiven. Only watched it once and that was in like, 06. Could be all sorts of awesome. Anybody have any thoughts on it?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Batista/Cena from whenever was awful. Duct tape? Really? Such a pussy way out of doing anything really.

I've never seen that Funk/Foley match. Must watch today. Is that the only match they had on RAW?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Speaking of LMS, I need to rewatch Kane vs. SHANE'O~ from Unforgiven. Only watched it once and that was in like, 06. Could be all sorts of awesome. Anybody have any thoughts on it?


I like the match, They built up to the final spot really well, Kane was also one dastardly heel and Shane was a grasping underdog hanging onto scraps and what not. ****, IMO.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Is Kane/Shane when Shane gets his balls electrocuted? Or is that in the build up to the match?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Shane'O GOAT. Definitely going to watch it now. I'll report back in 25 minutes


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Is Kane/Shane when Shane gets his balls electrocuted? Or is that in the build up to the match?


Build up, unfortunately. .


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rewatched Punk/Cena MITB. Can't believe how many botches it had. Crowd was smarky as fuck. Hated it. Predictable and shit ending. Not clean enough.

3/10

enguin


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

^also it has John Cena in it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What are peoples' thoughts on the 2010 Elimination Chamber's, notebly the SD one.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> ^also it has John Cena in it.


ya bt he losed it


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Better TV Match of 2003, Taker/Angle SD OR Trips/Shawn RAW?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Angle.

Angle/Lesnar IM was better though imo. Lesnar/Benoit and WGTT/Filthy Animals deserve nods too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

GOATAntics said:


> Better TV Match of 2003, Taker/Angle SD OR Trips/Shawn RAW?


Both are awesome, but it's Taker/Angle easily. That's a top 10 match of all time for WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zep81 said:


> What are peoples' thoughts on the 2010 Elimination Chamber's, notebly the SD one.


Coped from my Satan's Prison review:

*WWE Championship*
Sheamus(c) vs. John Cena vs. Randy Orton vs. Ted Dibiase vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Triple H - ***1/4
_Elimination Chamber 2010_

*World Heavyweight Championship*
The Undertaker(c) vs. Chris Jericho vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth vs. Rey Mysterio vs. CM Punk - ***1/2+
_Elimination Chamber 2010_

- WWE Title chamber was much slower than pretty much all the other ones they've had. Not saying it's a bad thing, it pretty much matches the mentality of half the guys involved (Sheamus, Orton, Trips). I liked everything they did with Legacy but it was pretty dumb to have Dibiase eliminate Orton and make it come off as a huge decision and then have fucking Kofi Kingston eliminate Ted. I would've preferred a mini match between Cena & HHH but that didn't happen so this one probably goes in the bottom 5 as far as Chambers go.

- For some really odd reason, the crowd was completely dead during the Smackdown one. I have no clue why but they were silent, which hurt the match a little bit. If you don't mind that this one was actually pretty enjoyable. They did something pretty different and comprised the whole match of mini matches. Punk vs. Kofi, then Punk vs. Rey, into Rey vs. Jericho, and then two 3-ways which finished with Jericho vs. Taker, which NEEDS to happen before either one retires. They had some innovative spots with Rey & Morrison and the finish was pretty cool I'll say. Like my dad always says, whenever Taker gets the belt he always gets screwed out of it.



Yeah1993 said:


> Michaels/HHH is the only bad LMS ever. Or is it? Any other bad LMS? When you think about it that's a gimmick that's always done well.


People shit on Jericho/Kane from like... 2000? But I haven't seen it in years. Just remember steel steps being dropped on someone...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jericho/Kane is ok but nothing great. Kane is well on top for basically 3/4 of the match if I recall right. The ending with the barrels made sense I guess, Kane managed to come out still looking like a monster while Jericho picked up a big win.

Nice reviews Corey, loved the ending to the Smackdown chamber, the whole HBK/Taker storyline that had HBK obsessing for ages was superb.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Finally watched the Shield tag from Raw. Bryan's flurry of offense after the hot tag from Cena was so awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, that's why I think Danielson may end up being WOTY after all; his tag performances have been excellent while there's a likely chance he'll be working a singles role very soon. I see a program with Dolph for the WHC is in the cards for MITB or Payback anyways seeing as how the number one contendership for the WHC is for whenever Dolph gets healthy and not Payback itself.

What does PAYBACK refer to though? Who the hell is getting their PAYBACK (okay, it's obviously John Cena, it always is)? I doubt Lesnar/HHH/Rock(obviously)/Taker(obviously) works Payback and that they sell the show on Punk's return in Chicago + whatever the fuck the WWE Championship match is. There's going to be so many questions after Extreme Rules such as who the hell is Punk going to feud with? He's obviously coming back into a main event level feud as he's THE GUY right next to John Cena. The candidates are;

- HHH
- BROCK
- Sheamus
- Cena

That's literally all I can think of. Unless they want to do a Taker-Punk rematch to headline Summerslam with BROCK-Cena II. I don't know, I'm just being a fanboy with my predictions here and geeking the fuck out playing fantasy booker. YEAH.

ANYWAYS. Brock/Big Show vs Cena/Eddie is shaping up to be a really good match that I must have missed from my Cena watchings; I should be finished with Brock TV matches today .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk will probably return to recreate MITB 11 against Cena. Either that, or attempting to get a win back vs HHH, but they might be saving that for Mania. HHH will likely take time off again after getting destroyed by THE BEAST INCARNATE. :brock


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have this weird fucking feeling that Brock is going to dismantle HHH the entire match but we're going to get a finish like SVDM 99 where Brock throws HHH through the cage somehow and HHH wins by accident, even though Brock KILLED him.

Well let's look at the Candidates for who PAYBACK refers to, shall we?

John Cena: Ryback? Shield? Somebody interfering and costing him the title?
The Undertaker: The Shield?
CM Punk: John Cena? The Undertaker?
Brock Lesnar: John Cena?
Triple H: CM Punk costs him the cage match?

I don't think Punk touches the belt again until XXX to be honest. He's going to win the Rumble next year though and probably be in the 3rd biggest match on the card against Sheamus or HHH or something.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd really like for it to be Cena/Lesnar II for the belt with Lesnar getting the win back. After (hopefully) beating HHH on Sunday, it's the next logical step. Anything else would be a step backwards. Is Payback the next PPV?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm still predicting an evenly fought match like what we've had, with Brock escaping through the cage door for the victory, maybe after some interference by Heyman/whoever Heyman was talking about in that tweet a little while ago. They've come this far with making HHH seem like Brock's equal and better, so I can't see them just having Brock destroy him now all of a sudden. It'd be pretty random at this point.

As far as Summerslam goes, I'd LOVE:

Taker/Punk II (with Punk going over of course)
Lesnar/Cena II

Kind of ironic I hated the Mania this year for all the rematches it had, but I'd be more than happy with the rematches above. Then again, the rematches above would be rematches of a near-classic in Brock/Cena and a classic in Taker/Punk, where Mania's rematches were of two just good-great original matches, with obvious results I didn't favor.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, there's four Raws between Extreme Rules & Payback.

Seems to me that they want one of the four part timers to PPVs with Punk & Cena in and out for the rest of the year. I'm willing to bet that Rock doesn't show up until Wrestlemania or some shit, which leaves HHH/Brock/Taker. I think Taker works Summerslam against Punk. I don't know why they would do this, but I have this feeling. Either THAT or Summerslam is headlined by Brock-Cena or HHH-Punk or something... One of those three for sure. They always break out something big for Summerslam so I wouldn't doubt it if we see two of Brock/Taker/HHH working the show.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

Sumerslam with Punk/Taker and Brock/Cena III (after Brock wins the belt at Payback) would be absolutely fine with me

Or Taker involved in something with the Shield, maybe Punk teaming with Taker and then turning on him and finally aligning with the Shield


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I don't mind classic rematches on a show like Summerslam. For Mania, though, I'd like to see some big, fresh matches. 

I agree that Brock won't completely decimate HHH on Sunday. Wouldn't make much sense given that after two matches, they're basically dead even. I think HHH basically gave away the ending, though, when he said if Brock loses, his mystique is gone. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to piece that one together. Brock will win, be it cleanly or not. Would be foolish for him not to.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Summerslam SHOULD be the place where you do the big rematches.

The reason why the Wrestlemania XXIX card was underwhelming was not because all of the big matches had already taken place, but rather because the matches themselves left alot to be desired, plus the predictability factor was at an all time high as well. Rock Vs Cena wasn't exactly a barnburner, so why care about seeing a rematch that has an obvious result if the match itself doesn't have alot of promise? The Punk-Taker match was more about predictability than anything while the Brock-HHH problems stem from the fact that there should have been no need for HHH to get the win back in the first place, and the fact that it was a rematch from Summerslam of all places when Summerslam should be the show that features the rematch and not the blowoff. I'm cool with HHH winning as long as Brock gets the win Sunday, but the booking for the last Wrestlemania was just horrendous in every single and tied up in the Rock-Cena nonsense that was booked three years in advance.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I may be a bit too optimistic but I doubt Punk will instantly return for a "BIG FEUD". Hell, is it even confirmed that he returns for Payback? Didn't they just remove all the dates he was advertised for throughout the summer and even the show two weeks away?

And if they go ahead with the Lesnar/Punk feud, I just hope Lesnar goes over. Makes no sense any other way.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think they removed him from the events to keep it a surprise when he returns. Everyone knows hes coming back in his home town. Nah I have to disagree in a Punk/lesnar feud Punk HAS to go over, saying that Brock MUST go over hhh and cena if their feud is renewed


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No, Lesnar should win every match at least until Wrestlemania. They have already ruined his aura when Mr. Bad-Ass Triple H has made him his bitch on every turn and Cena beat him in his first match. The last thing he needs before he'll go even lower than being "just another guy" like he is right now is losing to a joke like CM Punk. Then he'll truly be a part-timer jobber.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The only way Brock losing to Punk should even be considered a possibility is if they have the match at Survivor Series/RR and Rock makes an appearance before then. Lesnar jumps Rock and kicks the crap out of him, and then at Survivor Series/RR in return Rock costs Lesnar the match against Punk.

Otherwise, Lesnar should win EVERY match from here on out imo until his final match at WM31, where he either wrestles for the streak, or puts over a young guy.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The best thing to do would to just not put Punk and Brock together. Brock simply cannot lose a match otherwise he'll lose his aura and he'll be a part time jobber. Punk cannot loser because within the space of three months he's lost to The Rock twice, John Cena and The Undertaker. Unless they give him a losing streak storyline then Punk losing shouldn't be considered whatsoever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ agree I rather have a brock/cena 2 but i think we are headed for heny/cena which can be great


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock and Punk as a tag team has limitless potential. I love both of those guys, but for now I would rather them not to feud as it does not benefit either one of them. Punk and Lesnar are the two best heels on the roster, and they should stay as heels unless if Orton finally turns. In that case, Punk can turn face, but a match between him and Lesnar should certainly be held off for later. Just imagine the potential tag matches that could happen involving Brock and Punk.

Punk/Undertaker for Summerslam would be awesome, but my dream scenario would be a Punk/Brock/Shield vs. Cena/Taker/HHH/Bryan/Kane Survivor Series tag match where the last two wrestlers are Punk and Undertaker. Punk can finally get a clean victory over Undertaker in his road to redemption.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't worry, Brock will give the rub to that Dwayne Johnson kid, I reckon he needs it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would like to see punk/taker and shield/evolution at summerslam


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Lesnar as a team would be epic as fuck. PUNK/LESNAR VS CENA/TRIPS - TAG TITLES~!


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I can't see Brock or HHH working Payback, I think they'll both take some time off to sell the effects of the match. I can't see them returning until late June or early July for the Summerslam build. Brock/Cena for the title seems like the rightful next step, the match is an easy book as all they need is a Heyman/Brock promo saying they want to go after the gold. 

As for HHH, I don't think they should go to HHH/Punk until Wrestlemania. I could see him teaming with Taker against the Shield at Summerslam. That'll give the Shield a massive rub and would make sense considering the history between HHH/Taker. Taker/Punk II at Summerslam would suffice though... Actually, the more I think about it the more a Brock/Punk vs. Taker/HHH Summerslam main event appeals to me. The possibilities are endless.

I just hope they go back to the Taker/Shield angle sometime down the line.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

If Brock loses this Sunday he should just ask to have his contract terminated. I know he doesn't care about wins and losses and it'll never happen, but this guy is a legitimate ass kicker and had the reputation of being one of the baddest mofos on the planet. How can you justify a 1-3 record in a fake sport for a guy that beat the shit out of people in the real deal?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The end game for Lesnar is most likely for him to ultimately lose to Rock in both men's final match before they both ride off into the sunset. If some folks have issues with him losing to Cena and HHH, I can't wait for the reactions when he loses to Rock and they both disappear for good lol. Good times ahead. 

Brock/Punk is a feud both of the really ought to win. Punk because he's lost so many high profile feuds in a row and Lesnar because he really shouldn't be losing to Punk if he's got Rock on the horizon. You also have to consider the fact that Punk would have to turn and that opens up a whole other bunch of issues. For those reasons I don't know if it will ever happen. Obvious problems. They'd have to sacrifice one for the other. Personally it doesn't really bother me if it doesn't happen. I'd much rather have Brock/Taker at Summerslam since I'm taking it for granted it's going to be Brock/Rock at Mania. Realistically, those are the only options on the table for him. All this talk of Brock/Seamus, Brock/Bryan, even Brock/Punk, is most likely pie in the sky tbh. 

I think a Brock/Punk team has lots of potential however. That could be a lot of fun. If they included the Shield and we got a Taker/HHH/Cena/Whoever dream team to take them on then count me in.

It will be interesting to see whether Taker works again before Mania though. I doubt it but I'd sure as hell love to see it. It would definitely equal a PPV buy for me since we're running out of opportunities to see him.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Brye said:


> Punk/Lesnar as a team would be epic as fuck. PUNK/LESNAR VS CENA/TRIPS - TAG TITLES~!


But then that would make the tag team championships relevant again, and that doesn't sound like good BIZNESS. 

:HHH :vince5


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Lesnar, Punk, and The Shield vs. Triple H, Undertaker, Kane, Cena, and another babyface in a traditional Survivor Series 5 v 5 elimination match would be :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fandango said:


> Lesnar, Punk, and The Shield vs. Triple H, Undertaker, Kane, Cena, and another babyface in a traditional Survivor Series 5 v 5 elimination match would be :mark:


Bryan pls. Let him hang with the big boys and get the rub from it.

That match would be insane.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Rock would be a logical choice to team with Taker/Cena/HHH against the Heyman Guys but I doubt he works another non Mania PPV. 

I think Kane and Bryan would most likely team with them if they go that route.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How about a 7-on-7?

Lesnar, Punk, The Shield, Orton (heel), Ryback vs Hell No, Cena, Rock, Taker, HHH, Sheamus


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Lesnar/Shield vs. Taker/HHH/Cena/Kane/Bryan would be absolutely sick. I mean, as star power goes for a face team nowadays, that's about as big as you can get in WWE nowadays without including Orton and Sheamus. Would be an awesome match too I'm sure.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The reason I didn't include Bryan was because Team Hell No will be done by that point and he will most likely be onto other things


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Any team that goes against :taker :HHH2 :cena2 is going to LOSE. 

DEM VINNIE MAC GUYS

:vince5


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Ratings for some Smackdown 2003 matches *

Eddie Guerrero vs John Cena 4/1/03: ★★

Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker 9/4/03: ★★★3/4

Rhyno & Tajiri vs Chris Benoit & Rey Mysterio 9/18/2003: ★★1/2 

Probably gonna get some flak for that Angle/Taker rating haha.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Any team that goes against :taker :HHH2 :cena2 is going to LOSE.
> 
> DEM VINNIE MAC GUYS
> 
> :vince5


Nah, it'll come down to all 5 men on the face team vs :brock ... who proceeds to destroy and eliminate them all.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Fandango said:


> Lesnar, Punk, and The Shield vs. Triple H, Undertaker, Kane, Cena, and another babyface in a traditional Survivor Series 5 v 5 elimination match would be :mark:


That would be epic.



Choke2Death said:


> How about a 7-on-7?
> 
> Lesnar, Punk, The Shield, Orton (heel), Ryback vs Hell No, Cena, Rock, Taker, HHH, Sheamus


That would be even more epic.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Gamblor said:


> Nah, it'll come down to all 5 men on the face team vs :brock ... who proceeds to destroy and eliminate them all.


Sure................. :vince2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't think the ring is big enough for a 7 on 7


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Sure................. :vince2


Yeah... that's a bit unrealistic...

unk2 to eliminate dem faces 5 on 1!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fandango said:


> I don't think the ring is big enough for a 7 on 7


 There is always room for some :rock rton2


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Wrestler with most ***** matches, and what are the matches?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Gamblor said:


> Yeah... that's a bit unrealistic...
> 
> unk2 to eliminate dem faces 5 on 1!


CeNation don't think so........ :cena5

GAME don't think so........ :HHH2

MARK don't think so........ :taker

VINCE know so........ :vince5

unk3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> CeNation don't think so........ :cena5
> 
> GAME don't think so........ :HHH2
> 
> ...



unk2 GTS and 1-2-3 to :cena to eliminate him

unk hits the Pepsi Plunge aka super pedigree and 1-2-3 to eliminate :HHH

unk5 then makes :taker tap to the anaconda vice

It's all too perfect.

BTW, can we get a Taker smilie that isn't a shocked/disgusted one? How about the one where he smirks at HHH the Raw prior to WM27 at the end of the segment.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Gamblor said:


> unk2 GTS and 1-2-3 to :cena to eliminate him
> 
> unk hits the Pepsi Plunge aka super pedigree and 1-2-3 to eliminate :HHH
> 
> ...


And then you wake up, right? Lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> And then you wake up, right? Lol.


unk6 and I don't sleep.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There's a lot of animosity between Starbuck and Gamblor. rton2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hardly. For once we're actually just messing around lol.

FOR ONCE

:brock


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Messing around?

I WANT A NEW TAKER SMILIE!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone getting ER this weekend? Think I'm splitting it with about 9 friends. Should be a decent enough show and I'm not really positive of any of the results other than Del Rio probably winning.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BEING SUPER SERIAL

:cody2

@Brye yeah I'm getting it. Strangely looking forward to it too. SHIELD TAKEOVER.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll stream it, card looks pretty good. Disappointed the ladder match isn't happening now though, could have been very good if a little spotty. Ziggler taking DEM BUMPS though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I WANT A BENOIT SMILIE!



Brye said:


> Anyone getting ER this weekend? Think I'm splitting it with about 9 friends. Should be a decent enough show and I'm not really positive of any of the results other than Del Rio probably winning.


I hope Orton/Show is on early so I can watch that and then go to sleep. Will catch the whole thing the next day through the wonderful art of downloading.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I might order it if only so I can provide another PPV review complete w/PARENTAL COMMENTARY. That is, if others still wish to read it. 

Should also probably ask my parents if they'll be around before showing up at their doorstep.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hell to the yeah. :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BUY IT TLK

BUY IT AND SUPPORT THE GAME

:jpl

On Ziggler though, I don't think we'll be seeing him take many big bumps after this concussion of his. He'd be very foolish if he continued on the way he was.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

There goes his biggest asset then.

Without his bumping/selling ability, Ziggler would be less than average in the ring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Anyone getting ER this weekend? Think I'm splitting it with about 9 friends. Should be a decent enough show and I'm not really positive of any of the results other than Del Rio probably winning.


I'm going to PIRATE it asap once it comes online. Like I always do these days. 

Card looks so good. Even the US b/c Ambrose. I can't theoretically hate a Kofi match considering he has such a strong chance of losing. :side:

omg @ Tornado tag man. We could get another great one.



GOATAntics said:


> YES, YES, YES. Two old friends going balls out in a rule free, fight zone. ****1/2, I don't care, tell me i'm stretching it. GUARANTEED TOP 10 RAW MATCH.


It's all subjective, per usual. No harm in loving a radical match like that, imo. Foley's head bleeds from chair shots. FUNK.



FluxCapacitor said:


> Speaking of LMS, I need to rewatch Kane vs. SHANE'O~ from Unforgiven. Only watched it once and that was in like, 06. Could be all sorts of awesome. Anybody have any thoughts on it?


It's great. That feud was one I got a major kick out of & that match was exactly what the match should be - gritty & punishing. Shane took a beating but kept coming back. Which was the most believable story possible. 

******



Jack Evans 187 said:


> People shit on Jericho/Kane from like... 2000? But I haven't seen it in years. Just remember steel steps being dropped on someone...


That's a fine match. I like it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tornado tag is going to be :mark:

Miz and Riley had a great tornado tag with Swagger and Mysterio in 2011. This one has so much more potential than that it's not even funny. Rollins and Reigns on their own intrigues me not to mention we have Bryan in there too. Kane is Kane lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I hope the tornado tag is just full-blown chaos.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The RAW match is exactly what I was eluding to. If that one ruled _(and I hate to undersell guys like Mysterio & Swagger)_ then this one should def deliver. Bryan & Rollins will be all over the place + Kane & Reigns bossing it up with their power. Oh damn. Chaos, please.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's going to be cool as to see Shield wearing all the gold next week. Ryback will win the WWE title and reveal he's been the leader all along. 

:russo


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The two Shield matches are gonna be given like 7 minutes each. They could be fun but I doubt they will get the spotlight to be great.

However the Cena V Ryback/HHH V Lesnar matches are gonna be given over 20 minutes. Life's not fair


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kofi Kingston getting seven minutes is bad?

More like that's the smartest thing ever.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Been loving this cruiserweight set. Kidman/Myserio, Juve/Blitzkreig :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Just let Ambrose go through Kofi and give the time to the tag match. Problem solved.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Been loving this cruiserweight set. Kidman/Myserio, Juve/Blitzkreig :mark:


:mark:

That has SUPER CALO on it too, right?



Starbuck said:


> Just let Ambrose go through Kofi and give the time to the tag match. Problem solved.


(Y)


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lets hope that Ambrose doesnt get the US title curse passed on to him.

However it will be cool to see the Shield draped in gold.

But you know what would be cooler....

Punk reveals he's the leader and wins the WWE championship

Brock Lesnar joins the Sheild and becomes the World champion.

Punk the leader as WWE champion
Lesnar, the world champ, as the big gun
Dean Ambrose, second in command as the US champion
Rollings and Reigns, the soldiers, as the tag team champions
Heyman as the mouthpiece.

THE STABLE TO END ALL STABLES


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> :mark:
> 
> That has SUPER CALO on it too, right?
> 
> ...





The Cynical Miracle said:


> Lets hope that Ambrose doesnt get the US title curse passed on to him.
> 
> However it will be cool to see the Shield draped in gold.
> 
> ...


:mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That stable would be stacked as fuck. LESNAR = HIRED GUN.

Hoping tag title match gets at least 10 minutes.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Would be the GOAT stable, at least in the modern era.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm the only guy not for it. Keep them separate. They're all so excellent alone that I wouldn't want any to get diluted. By any, I mean The Shield.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah. I kind of don't want there to be some big leader reveal to the Shield. They're perfect as they are and this way they get all the attention. If there were to be a leader I guess that's the way to do it though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I'm w/Cody. the Shield were Heyman's hired guns last year, but other than that they feel like a group who should be 'Us v. the World', and those three guys are fine without anybody else. You don't want this becoming the new 'everybody joins the nWo'. You could get people like Marcus Bagwell. :side:

Plus I think Lesnar should be solo anyway, and, fuck, I'll say it - that includes Heyman. A monster feels like less of a monster when he has a human who he considers his equal (or somethin') and/or listens to them. It was Mark Henry's problem for years.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah I like the brock/heyman relationship, its the perfect the small little man controlling the giant monster type theme the. It reminds me of majin buu (sorry for dbz reference). Besides remind that Brock promo by himself ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like Brock with Heyman. It's like that one guy Brock will show tolerance too. Everyone else will die...except for Paul.

nWo mention and no Konnan? That's the go-to guy when it comes to the disease of the bunch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I kinda like the father/son dichotomy going on with Heyman and Brock. Adds to the feuds a bit. Plus, Brock can't work a mic so this saves him the trouble. Doesn't help that Brock only shows up every few weeks. I think that hurts the most.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I think the Sheild as they are right now, after they win the gold, will of gone as far as they can go. Hell if what they did on SD and who they interacted with is a hint of where and who they will feud with next. They are going to fall way down the card.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> nah I like the brock/heyman relationship, its the perfect the small little man controlling the giant monster type theme the. It reminds me of majin buu (sorry for dbz reference). Besides remind that Brock promo by himself ?


IIRC Buu got fed up with Babadi and slaughtered his head. 

I do understand, and like, Lesnar/Heyamn, but parts of last year Lesnar seemed the lone wolf who had nobody telling him who he could fuck up. I kinda liked that more than the Heyman managerial thing. 



Obfuscation said:


> nWo mention and no Konnan? That's the go-to guy when it comes to the disease of the bunch.


Ew, Konnan. He's not good enough for the Oddities. Actually he'd make a decent carnival sideshow (Konnan: The Amazing Shitty Wrestler! You, at home, can have only one week of wrestling training and be a better worker than he is!)


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ew, Konnan. He's not good enough for the Oddities. Actually he'd make a decent carnival sideshow (Konnan: The Amazing Shitty Wrestler! You, at home, can have only one week of wrestling training and be a better worker than he is!)


Is he worse than the Great Khali or Giant Gonzalez?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ew, Konnan. He's not good enough for the Oddities. Actually he'd make a decent carnival sideshow (Konnan: The Amazing Shitty Wrestler! You, at home, can have only one week of wrestling training and be a better worker than he is!)


:lmao

So true; so wonderful.



Smith_Jensen said:


> Is he worse than the Great Khali or Giant Gonzalez?


Hands down, yes.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

:lmao Konnan.

His podcast is pretty awesome, I remember he once explained why he was such shit in the ring. He said that he was so over down in AAA by putting in minimal effort that he assumed he didn't have to work hard in the states to get over.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Konnan :ann






Now these are the Luchadores I like.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TOSS MY SALAD N PEEL MY POTATOES! :lol



Brye said:


> Anyone getting ER this weekend? Think I'm splitting it with about 9 friends. Should be a decent enough show and I'm not really positive of any of the results other than Del Rio probably winning.


Wish I had NINE friends who actually liked wrestling... I'll split it 50/50 with my dad. Still not 100% sold on the ppv to be honest though.



The Lady Killer said:


> I might order it if only so I can provide another PPV review complete w/PARENTAL COMMENTARY. That is, if others still wish to read it.
> 
> Should also probably ask my parents if they'll be around before showing up at their doorstep.


Yes please. (Y)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

At least Konnan had some personality and could actually walk. Khali can't walk right and they put in a fucking dance contest. He literally stood in place and waved his arms. AND THE FUCKER WON THE DANCE CONTEST. 

Bret must vomit every time he sees Natalya on TV being Khali's love interest.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm about to watch Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H from Summerslam 2002.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Eulonzo said:


> I'm about to watch Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H from Summerslam 2002.


Love it. Great return match from Shawn and terrific babyface performance. Trips just wanting to cripple HBK was also good. Think I have it at about ****1/4-1/2. 

Reactions on here are a bit mixed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Wish I had NINE friends who actually liked wrestling... I'll split it 50/50 with my dad. *Still not 100% sold on the ppv to be honest though.*


Same. Even though I do like the card.

Extreme Rules 2011 on paper looked very strong. After it was over I only liked about two matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> I'm about to watch Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H from Summerslam 2002.


*****



Obfuscation said:


> Same. Even though I do like the card.
> 
> Extreme Rules 2011 on paper looked very strong. After it was over I only liked about two matches.


I loved ER 2011... 

But then 2012 blew it out of the water.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Pretty damn awesome match. I give it *****. Not the best match I've ever seen, but it was awesome and aggressive etc, which is what it needed in a feud like that. Triple H was a fucking beast heel. :datass Dat ending.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2011 is meh overall. I just want to own it for Rhodes vs Mysterio.

2012 is something else. All I can say is Danielson vs Sheamus. Then you see Cena vs Lesnar. That's not even including Punker vs Jericho or Kane vs Orton OR the other two fun undercard matches. Even the squash was fine and Divas was super short. What a perfect event.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

CM PUnk vs John CEna MITB

ok so I felt the need to go back and watch a couple of cena matches and see how they hold up. I watched their Feb 13 the other day and that went up to a **** 1/2 for me. So how would this one hold up ? I gave it the 5* before. Watching this match I remember why I loved it so much. The match has everything you need in a match, story wrestling, crowd, importance etc.It get to much flack for the wresting, yes there were botches but the crowd and the story in the match made up for it. The only problem is it is a tad long but I was invested the whole time, its still a* ****** for me and cena's and punk's best match imo to this day

This match is special for me because me b day because I just got back into wresting around this time and my birthday was the same week. I remember going to a great party with childhood friends and watched this classic in span of 4 days

this and :hbk2 vs :flair wm 24 are my personal favorite matches ever


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, will be hard-pressed for ER13 to live up to last year's event but anything close would be great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MITB Punker vs Cena for life.

Yeah this year's card has potential. If it is a fraction of what it could be on paper, then we'll be in for something worth seeing. I'm only lukewarm on a few aspects:

~ Strap match could be a negative for Henry vs Sheamus. However, their awesome chemistry could permit the match to not be hindered at all. I hate sticking this match in the "idk" pile. It's ONLY b/c of the blah gimmick.

~ Show is one who never fails to earn a rise out of me, but Orton at this rate is so miss for me that I can see the match possibly being on the weak side. Their matches in late 2012 I absolutely hated. 

~ Ambrose is plenty swell. his opponent is probably the worst on the roster that isn't Big E. Langston. Hoping it's kept short so Kofi can do his one move & few springboard spots while Ambrose keeps the flow going well and wins. The Ambrose win is key here.

Rest I have pretty high hopes for. Dunno if Jericho vs Fandango will have a gimmick added on. I liked what was given at WM. So it stays in my good pile right now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't think it's any stretch at this point to say that Ryback's work this year has destroyed Orton's work .

The only matches I KNOW are going to rule would be SHIELD/Hell No, Sheamus/Henry, & perhaps BROCK/GAME.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not at all. Ryback has had himself a good 2013.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton's having the worst year of his career by quite a margin at the moment. I mean I thought his 2010 was bad & his 2012 was below average, but the only thing he's done this year worth anything happens to be the Wrestlemania SHIELD match; a match where he could have easily been replaced and the match would have been no different. 

He's taking guys like Cesaro and making them BLEH. FUCK RANDY DO SOMETHING.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His matches vs Henry weren't good either. Nothing but bleh city overall this year. And he's wrestled Cesaro A LOT _(twice on Main Event with buckets of time)_ only for it to not be at least a fun gem. That's a poor margin. Orton last year at least had some solid/good TV matches. This year, idk.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

If you put Orton in the matches Ryback had though he does better. Orton/Henry would have been way better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What? 

Orton wrestled Henry twice this year and they weren't good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well it's clear that Lesnar didn't give two fucks after No Way Out 2004 as the only three matches he had (Vs Billy Gunn, Vs Hardcore Holly, Vs Goldberg) after that might end up all being in his bottom five matches ever. It's weird because I don't think he really cared during the Eddie feud either despite that match being one of the greatest title matches ever & the tag match on the go home show for No Way Out being quite good as well. Perhaps a ton of that may be due to Eddie being GOD, but if you put Brock in there with somebody who is at least competent, it's a slam dunk to be an at least average match.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Brock Lesnar wrestled Billy Gunn? I MUST see this


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's fucking BAD, stay away from it. 

Brock is best used in a few different capacities; wrestling a standard match against Billy Gunn isn't one of them.

I need to rewatch the Holly Rumble match to determine which one is actually worse, Goldberg-BROCK is awesome for the LOLZ.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match vs Bobcore is a flat out DUD. 

So it probably wins the greater of two evils debate.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Am I the only one who isn't getting WWE's YouTube uploads in their subscription box? Ever since earlier this week or this previous weekend, I haven't gotten them in my subscription box.

Is it because of the new charging subscribers situation?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What's crazy is how so far, despite having every single BROCK TV match besides like 4 in 2002 watched, I've only seen three BAD Brock matches (Hardcore, Goldberg, Gunn). That's a fucking INSANE amount of matches that are either short squashes (Brock is KING of the squash match), decent - good TV tags, and awesome 1 vs 1 bouts.

BROCK IS GOD.

I'll say this right now after seeing most of his work; a motivated Brock Lesnar is incapable of having a bad match. I'm dead serious.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> What's crazy is how so far, despite having every single BROCK TV match besides like 4 in 2002 watched, I've only seen three BAD Brock matches (Hardcore, Goldberg, Gunn). That's a fucking INSANE amount of matches that are either short squashes (Brock is KING of the squash match), decent - good TV tags, and awesome 1 vs 1 bouts.
> 
> BROCK IS GOD.
> 
> I'll say this right now after seeing most of his work; a motivated Brock Lesnar is incapable of having a bad match. I'm dead serious.


I guess Brock wasn't motivated at Wrestlemania 29


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

@Gamblor

The Wrestlemania XXIX match may be polarizing as fuck and while some people may downright hate it, I cannot accentuate more on the idea that Lesnar's performance RULES for that match. He fucks up Triple H bad; screams as if he's king kong or some shit ready to rule the entire WWE like the baddest man on the planet that he is, and throws Game around like a ragdoll in the process while working a fantastic heel control segment in the process. The match is heading towards classic territory until Trips puts together one of the worst babyface comebacks I've ever seen, destroying the finish in the process, which isn't really a big deal to me any more as the match is still really great due to the complete carryjob by Brock.

That guy just doesn't fuck around ever.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Indeed, the match is very polarizing. But for me, the match goes down and down on each viewing, and I really don't want to watch the match again. Haven't in about a month (was my third viewing), but Lesnar's control segments did nothing for me, much like they did nothing in the Summerslam match. I mean, Lesnar yelling and stuff was alright, but hardly makes up for the match itself. In fact when re-watching the Summerslam match, what really saves it from being "bad" for me like the Mania match, is the whole stomach targeting by HHH and the amazing selling by Lesnar, and then the finish (though it is a bit stupid Lesnar no-sells the pedigree like he did). But Mania didn't have anything near the level of that, and rather it just dragged on and on and then we get that awful babyface comeback that you refer to. Then the way it ended, just adds insult to injury.

Garbage match, and it might be the worst match of Mania, yes, even worse than Rock/Cena. Maybe even the worst PPV non-divas/squash match of the year. And the thing is the Summerslam match and WM29 have similarities as mentioned above in terms of pace and structure (that I hated), and I'm expecting the cage won't be much different, which is the big reason I'm not looking forward to it. 

But who knows? Maybe the cage will keep things in check and let them do stuff differently. Guess I'll have to wait until after Sunday to see how that plays out.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> BROCK IS GOD.


How many GODs do you have?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

My Summerslam "DREAM" Card:

CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar (for the WWE Championship)

Undertaker, John Cena & Triple H vs. The Shield

I want this specific match to go down in a similar way to this - As the finishing stretch goes along, Cena has gone into Superman mode and has one of the Shield members on his shoulders, likely for a match ending AA. However, The member escapes and shoves Cena into Taker, who happens to beating on another member, Deadman gets knocked out of the ring as a result. Cena tries to negotiate the incident as an accident, As he's doing this, One of the opposition hits their finishing move on Trips/Cena and gets the pin and the biggest win of their careers. After the long fought encounter, Taker is pissed off at Cena, and chokeslams him, Trips tries to stop it but receives an evil look by Taker, translating into the words of "I don't want to hurt you, but if you fuck with me, I'll have too" . This thus hints and plants the seeds for Taker/Cena at WM30. This is not a heel turn by Taker, think of it similar to the Chokeslam Batista took, when Taker chose him as his WM23 opponent.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK IS GOD. PUNK IS GOD. FLAIR IS GOD.

& THEN THERE'S THE HOLY SON IN LAW.

:HHH2


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brock was awesome in the Mania 29 match. I still think a lot of people don't appreciate it because of the dead crowd. Brock was a fucking animal. I don't get why people keep saying he hasn't looked strong in the HHH feud. I can't ever remember someone tossing Hunter around and basically rag dolling him like Brock did. Personally I dug the hell out of Hunter's comeback. Thought it was a good 'slaying the beast' type finish and didn't make Lesnar look bad in the slightest. Am I the only one who thought Brock's selling when Trips had him in the kimura was amazing? 



Gamblor said:


> Indeed, the match is very polarizing. But for me, the match goes down and down on each viewing, and I really don't want to watch the match again. Haven't in about a month (was my third viewing), but Lesnar's control segments did nothing for me, much like they did nothing in the Summerslam match. I mean, Lesnar yelling and stuff was alright, but hardly makes up for the match itself. In fact when re-watching the Summerslam match, what really saves it from being "bad" for me like the Mania match, is the whole stomach targeting by HHH and the amazing selling by Lesnar, and then the finish (though it is a bit stupid Lesnar no-sells the pedigree like he did). But Mania didn't have anything near the level of that, and rather it just dragged on and on and then we get that awful babyface comeback that you refer to. Then the way it ended, just adds insult to injury.
> 
> Garbage match, and it might be the worst match of Mania, yes, even worse than Rock/Cena. Maybe even the worst PPV non-divas/squash match of the year. And the thing is the Summerslam match and WM29 have similarities as mentioned above in terms of pace and structure (that I hated), and I'm expecting the cage won't be much different, which is the big reason I'm not looking forward to it.
> 
> But who knows? Maybe the cage will keep things in check and let them do stuff differently. Guess I'll have to wait until after Sunday to see how that plays out.


You seem to gravitate much more towards more 'technical' back and forth matches from what I've noticed.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Trips has GOAT-esique psychology/storytelling within the ring, As proven by his match with Taker at WM27 (that maybe Taker's selling though, ) and Jericho at FL 2000. I can't though look away from his so-typical move set.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> BROCK IS GOD. PUNK IS GOD. FLAIR IS GOD.
> 
> & THEN THERE'S THE HOLY SON IN LAW.
> 
> :HHH2


You've had a :jpl phase, :cena3 phase, and now a :brock phase. :flair3 next?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> You seem to gravitate much more towards more 'technical' back and forth matches from what I've noticed.


Yeah, that sounds like me. Though there are matches I love where one guy dominates the other and it isn't very back and fourth, like Punk/Henry from Raw April 2nd last year. That match is awesome from everything Henry did and his usual trash talking, to Punk playing the face in peril and his comeback at the end, and then even the finish was damn near perfect for what they were trying to do. I have it as Henry's best match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Brock/Trips should've just been Batista/Shawn Stretcher Part II.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Batista/Michaels (Y)


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Batista/HBK is actually great? I know it's Shawn and he made most people look really good but lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Batista/Shawn from Armageddon 2003 is really good for how amateur Batista was at the time. I prefer it over the Orton/Shawn at UF of the same year, but only by a slight margin.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Oh I thought you guys mean't Batista/HBK from '08.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember enjoying Batista/HBK Stretcher Match from 2008, but I don't recall a thing from it. Can't even remember who won it. Haven't seen their other match with Jericho as ref.

Punk/Henry 4/2/12 is a top 10 all-time match on RAW.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

GOATAntics said:


> Batista/Shawn from Armageddon 2003 is really good for how amateur Batista was at the time. I prefer it over the Orton/Shawn at UF of the same year, but only by a slight margin.


Thought that match was pretty bad.



Eulonzo said:


> Oh I thought you guys mean't Batista/HBK from '08.


One Night Stand 2008. *****1/2*

Batista's best performance ever. Shawn bumped well.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Henry 4/2/12 is a top 10 all-time match on RAW.


I just watched this match for the first time ever. What a great bout. Not sure if I'd put it in my top 10, but Henry showed that he belongs.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> TOSS MY SALAD N PEEL MY POTATOES! :lol
> 
> 
> Wish I had NINE friends who actually liked wrestling... I'll split it 50/50 with my dad. Still not 100% sold on the ppv to be honest though.
> ...


It's kinda solid to have a bunch of friends into wrestling. A couple have been into it as long as my. A few are my roommates that used to be into and are now back into it, and the rest are friends that started giving it a try because we were all watching it and ended up liking it. Four of them are pretty knowledge fans too.

And YES PLS GREG!

Couple matches being discussed:

Batista/HBK - ONS - ****1/4 (Love it, Batista owns and HBK takes one heck of a beating. The Jericho involvement in the match is superb too, considering how big that feud got)

Punk/Henry - Raw 4/2/12 - **** (Awesome match, Henry's offense is awesome, as are Punk's comeback segments. Great, great stuff.)


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I remember hearing that the feud was interlinked with others - HBK-Flair-HBK-Batista-HBK-Jericho-Batista-Jericho-Flair-HBK-Taker-HHH-Taker-HBK-HHH. Something like that, .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I just watched Lesnar/Goldberg. Why would I put myself through such torture, you ask?

I was bored. :brock


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

One Night Stand 2006

Tazz/Lawler - DUD
Angle/Orton - **3/4
FBI/Tajiri & Super Crazy - ***1/4
Rey/Sabu - ***
Edge/Foley/Lita vs Funk/Dreamer/Beulah - ****1/2
Mahoney/Tanaka - **
RVD/Cena - ****

- The tag match is fun as hell. Super Crazy always owned.

- Six person tag match is off the fucking charts. Those guys put each other through hell and tell an awesome story doing so. Another match that helped make Edge's career.

- I like Cena/RVD more than most on here. The crowd is amazing and I feel like the two just worked a good match together. They don't go over the top or anything, but it's just a very enjoyable match to watch.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Fandango said:


> I just watched Lesnar/Goldberg. Why would I put myself through such torture, you ask?
> 
> I was bored. :brock


:lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last time I watched Michaels vs Batista Stretcher I liked it, but didn't think it was stellar.

Probably still don't. Their match from Backlash the same year is boring.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Savage dosen't get discussed a lot in this thread, What are your opinions on his ring work? At peak, I reckon he was on par, If not better than Flair.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love Savage. Always will be one of my favorites. But he was never better than Flair.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Who would you place him above, Hayley?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Above Flair?

shooot. Undertaker, Liger, Eddie Guerrero for three off the top of my head. Possibly Danielson, Finlay & Regal too. Not counting a few more workers from Japan, such as Kenta Kobashi, Toshiaki Kawada, & Genichiro Tenryu. Oh shit Barry Windham in his prime was GOLDEN. Reason his matches vs Flair were so brilliant weren't all by Flair alone.

Most of these are all side by side, tbhayley. My elite workers list is pretty set, but none are necessarily placed above one another in such a strong fashion. So take this for a grain of salt, really.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Who would you place Savage above? Kinda surprised Taker is above Flair, (Y).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Above Savage? The same list with a few more added. CM Punk being one of them. Probably Cena too. Scratch probably. Cena's had plenty of tremendous performances. Sounds like I'm being harsh on Savage, which isn't the case. He's plenty great in his own right. There are just some others that I can say collectively would probably have an edge over him.

I hate myself for not saying Bobby Eaton right off the bat. Dammit all. Eaton is godly.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Savage being better than Flair is ridiculous. Same with Undertaker. Might as well put Shawn up there too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn is only able to be near Flair's level if it's from his days in a tag team. :hayley1


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Savage is one of the GOAT, but Flair is THE GOAT, no question asked there. Still not as ridiculous as some stupid Youtube marks placing KURT ANGLE above Ric Flair in their all-time rankings.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Savage is top 5 all time for me. I adore the guy, absolutely the total package in pro wrestling. Dude had the unique look, cut the craziest entertaining promos and could obviously go with anyone in the ring. His post-1997 work was under par but I blame that on WCW in general being shitty and the main event not really focusing on delivering in in the ring.

I look for the total package when thinking about the GOATs of the industry so I'm looking for someone who can work a crowd during a match and get them invested whether heel or face, someone who can talk on the stick, and someone who has that intangible IT factor. So Savage belongs with Rock (not so much his return matches but 1998-2003 he was gold), Austin, Undertaker and.....I'm stuck on a 5th!


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

CM Punk is right along those lines for me, what doesn't he atleast do very well? The only thing he probably lacks compared to those guys is presence but he's still in his prime still rising in terms of his level, I think we'll see just how big he can be when he returns from this break for a huge run as possibly a babyface. 

I miss him unk3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. I think GOATantics kept trying to ask who Savage is above on the list (who he's better than) and Cody's just like nah, fuck that. I'm twistin this shit around.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hahaha. I think GOATantics kept trying to ask who Savage is above on the list (who he's better than) and Cody's just like nah, fuck that. I'm twistin this shit around.


Yep, Hayley's comprehension skills are reaching that "pure shit" status p). I didn't feel like explaining either. 



PS: I was kidding about the comprehension, Please don't destroy me.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

7:24 Punk's face + the crowd. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ One of the few times I've ever enjoyed something Punk's done. Loved that promo when it took place initially and still stand by it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I bet Trips just loved calling Brock a bitch, probably had a fucking stiffy blurting that out, if anyone here is going to the PPV, take a sign saying 'If HHH wins, we riot'


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

about savage
great worker and a GOAT but i have :
:flair
:hbk
taker maybe ?
above him

I think he is above bret thought ? that my be a minority


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I bet Trips just loved calling Brock a bitch, probably had a fucking stiffy blurting that out, if anyone here is going to the PPV, take a sign saying 'If HHH wins, we riot'


If HHH wins this Sunday, I think I'll turn to the "hate" side with him. I've been neutral and almost a fan for most of the time but at this point, it's like I want him gone completely. His promos are always the same ol' boring shit and other than WM28, I've not been a massive fan of any matches he's had since going part-time. It's like he MUST be in the spotlight even when he has absolutely nothing left to do. And I hate saying it because I have tried my best to not let it bother me for a while but now it's getting out of hand. Next thing you know, they'll drag the series with Brock into a best of 5 even though no one gives a shit anymore.

Sorry GAME marks, I just had to!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> I bet Trips just loved calling Brock a bitch, probably had a fucking stiffy blurting that out, if anyone here is going to the PPV, take a sign saying 'If HHH wins, we riot'


 I'm very sure that Lesnar will win. Logically it makes sense because this victory doesn't do nothing for HHH. Lesnar needs to get some wins and most importantly, some momentum when he feuds against Cena/Rock/Taker or whoever. If he loses then I won't get disappointed or angry because lets face it, the damage has already been done 

Still can't believe this feud has last over a year though.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

For some reason, I just don't see Triple H (kayfabe & storyline wise) moving on with his life after losing to Lesnar this sunday. We all knew what happened after Summerslam, the corny retirement-tease situation, then several months later he comes back and beats Lesnar at Mania, which was an awesome match don't get me wrong lol.

Then again, Taker & Lesnar had a bloody & crazy HIAC match and then Taker/Lesnar made up or whatever, I think. And I think that led to Lesnar's face turn, I believe?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock standing like King Kong on top of the Cell holding up the Championship of the world while a beaten and bloody Undertaker looks up at him is one of the greatest visuals I have ever seen in the WWE. 

Triple H will move onto something right after this I do believe, I'm going to guess either with CM Punk or The Shield.The Shield in particular have been pushed really hard under the tenure of HHH and he has came out and stated that they're essentially the future of the company, so it would make sense for Trips to move directly into a feud with them for say, Summerslam?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They're building this cage match up to be one of brutality and "torn flesh" and whatnot, yet we all know there isn't likely to be blood. How brutal could it get?


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I agree, The Beast Incarnate. Someone needs to GIF it.

Yeah, that's be cool, too. I'd prefer a program The Shield because like you said, he's high on them mark so it'd make more sense than Punk because they tried attacking him a month or two ago, and with Punk it would sorta've make sense but they moved on with their 2011 feud & they teamed up with each other at Vengeance or whatever it was. I mean, that was almost two years ago at this point.

So I assume it'll be HHH & two other faces. Can't be Cena because he'll probably be defending the title at SS.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Someone else mentioned it the other day, but EVOLUTION vs SHIELD would be fucking awesome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> How brutal could it get?


30 minutes of HHH in 2013? Is there a level of brutality beyond that :side:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Reading back through the previous version of this thread and seeing all the praise Shield/Ryback, Kane & Bryan received, I decided to watch it for only the SECOND time, that's right and release a rightful review, cremated by my own personal opinion of it. At first, It was ****, Great but nothing mind blowing or amazing-esique in the stipulation of TLC. However, After the second, My opinion of it has extended greatly and has heightened significantly in final rating. Enough of that though, Read my review, NOW !!! p). 
-----------------------------------------

*The Shield vs. Ryback, Kane & Daniel Bryan - TLC 2002 ​*
The Shield's booking was unquestionably at equal terms when compared to the opposition in this specific match, Which (for me personally) bumps it up a star because it's probably the best decision Vince & Creative has made in the past couple years. Anyways, As a result of this GREAT booking, It solidified The Shield as unit in "to be taken seriously" manner. This also encouraged fantastic heel and psychology infested spots that actually made a heap-ton of SENSE. It was carnage galore, not one dull moment. The destruction of bodies within the match itself, was cringe-worthy and even in heavy doing. The selling (especially) showed this plus in the best way possible, Ambrose's selling off the double suplex speaks for its self. Also, The legitimateness in my face when i actually saw his reaction off the move was PRICELESS, And i'm not easily convinced. Now onto the PERFECTIVE spots i was referring to earlier, They all interlined with the vanquish and innovative design of the match. The spear by Roman on Kane was "GOOD GOD, ALMIGHTY" worthy. However, It's even looked to be obselote in awesomeness when you take into account, Rollins' fall through the table within the finishing stretch, That dedication, That air-time, :clap. Hell, I even liked Ambrose and Rollins' dissection of Bryan within the two-on-one control segments of the match, Heel work at its best. And ah yes, Kane's chokeslam on Ambrose through a set up chair, looked especially inflictive in pain. The ending was well executed, because while The Shield won and looked to be extremely strong, The new star, Ryback wasn't hurt in the slightest, He was arguably the most dominant member on the opposing team and even a Triple power bomb couldn't keep him down, Beast booking at its best.

This match was perfect in all senses, drama, suspense, spots, violence, psychology, originality, booking. You name it. ****3/4, Might even make that ***** push after another watch, :mark:.​


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> 30 minutes of HHH in 2013? Is there a level of brutality beyond that :side:


OK now I'm pissed off. 

edit good review, but you forgot to mention the BLACKOUT (curb stomp) onto the chair.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> OK now I'm pissed off.


:hayden3


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

You knocked it out of the dog-gawn park, GOATAntics. (Y) My thoughts exactly. I still actually watch that much, it's awesome. I love the spots, and not just the spots but how it made sense to their personas and same goes for Hell No & Ryback. I still can't get over Ambrose's facial-selling over the double suplex onto the ladder. He looked hilarious.

And I think Kane/Bryan's double teaming was overlooked by everything else IMO.




Go to 7:49 - Bryan's kicks in the corner 100 times, everyone said "YES! YES! YES!" then double whiplashing Roman Reigns into the ladder in the corner, then Kane whiplashing Bryan to do that dropkick on Reigns then his back hits the ladder. :mark: :mark: :mark: Was fucking awesome!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

YES, MOMMY, I did it, I finally got someone with MOD status to claim my review as "GOOD. HEAR ME ROAR WORLD!!!, :henry1.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Great review GOAT. I have that TLC match at ****1/2 after the last rewatch

Main-Event: Kane/Rollins- **1/2


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Someone else mentioned it the other day, but EVOLUTION vs SHIELD would be fucking awesome.


I wouldn't mind that, to be honest. Plus if Batista's rusty, it's a six man tag team match, I'm sure his rusty-ness wouldn't be too exposed. And maybe if Flair's up for it, have him be their manager and be at ringside and have a spot where one of The Shield attempts to go on the ring apron and interfere interrupt a part of the match (i.e someone in Evolution trying to get the pin or get a finisher and they distract em) then Flair puts em down and does the chops or whatever. :lol

But yeah, I honestly wouldn't mind that. It's the only stable I can think of that they could go up against at this point, unless they want to be annoying as fuck and rehash the same matches just switch opponents, like Orton/Cena/Sheamus or Orton/Ryback/Cena or something, nobody really wants to see that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> YES, MOMMY, I did it, I finally got someone with MOD status to claim my review as "GOOD. HEAR ME ROAR WORLD!!!, :henry1.


It was better than a GOOD review. :hb

In all seriousness, I agree with everything you said. Everyone came out of that match looking fucking LEGIT. One of the few things the booking team has gotten right in recent months. Match was nonstop chaos, yet all of the spots made sense. Great stuff.

edit Yeah, Flair can be at ringside and kneedrop his jacket and get tossed to the back. :flair


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Eulonzo said:


> I wouldn't mind that, to be honest. Plus if Batista's rusty, it's a six man tag team match, I'm sure his rusty-ness wouldn't be too exposed. And maybe if Flair's up for it, have him be their manager and be at ringside and have a spot where one of The Shield attempts to go on the ring apron and interfere interrupt a part of the match (i.e someone in Evolution trying to get the pin or get a finisher and they distract em) then Flair puts em down and does the chops or whatever. :lol
> 
> But yeah, I honestly wouldn't mind that. It's the only stable I can think of that they could go up against at this point, unless they want to be annoying as fuck and rehash the same matches just switch opponents, like Orton/Cena/Sheamus or Orton/Ryback/Cena or something, nobody really wants to see that.


Batista/Reigns is a match that I would love to see especially


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

The part in your name where it says GOAT makes so much sense.. :vince


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

SPEARFEST 2013


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Fuck it, I'm pushing TLC 2012 to ***** and knocking TLC IV down to second place, I still love you, but times change, I'm so sorry. :cry smiley is suppose to be here.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

TLC 6 man tag is ****3/4 for me and 2nd MOTY of the year right behind HHH/TAKER


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Loved that TLC match. One of the few things WWE got right last year. Punk being injured ended up being a blessing. WWE moty but nowhere near the actual moty, not even top 5


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

TLC IV tops the list at ***** for 2012's MOTY. Brock/Cena & Punk/Bryan OTL are at ****3/4 and both flip-flop between 2nd and 3rd place, respectively. Fuck Taker/HHH HIAC, That match blew chunks.................................................. COMPARED p) to their WM27 encounter.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shield TLC match is still an incredibly fun watch every time. It's part of the reason I feel some of the other Shield matches have been overrated to some extent (coughECcough). It was just so awesome so much awesomeness dripped onto their other matches to make them even more awesomer. Have it at ****1/2 and a very close second best match of the year 2012 (right behind Punk/Bryan OTL of course).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

AHB just gave me rep, A milestone has been reached. :clap, I just wanna thank a few people and yea, program(s) p), TextEdit has been with me through thick and thin, Never crash or froze or like a bitch, suddenly stopped working, It deserves an ovation, :clap, WOOOO, We did it baby, We did it. *Wipes tear from eye*.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> AHB just gave me rep, A milestone has been reached. :clap, I just wanna thank a few people and yea, program(s) p), *TextEdit has been with me through thick and thin, Never crash or froze or like a bitch*, suddenly stopped working, It deserves an ovation, :clap, WOOOO, We did it baby, We did it. *Wipes tear from eye*.


Dat rapping. :vince2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Rybell No was amazing, but TLC I and II are the GOATs, then III, and then this one.

Hell No/Shield Tornado Tag this Sunday should be :mark: Shame we ain't getting the Ladder match, another potential ****+.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, they should've had one of The Shield's matches be a ladder match or maybe a tables match. Hell, maybe a Tornado Tag Tables Elimination match? 8*D Too bad I don't think they said anything related to changing the stipulation regarding any of The Shield's matches on SD so looks like we're not getting anything.. But there could always be a swerve, because didn't they change the stipulation last minute before or during the PPV for CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan as a NoDQ match at MiTB?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Shield vs Ryback and Team Hell No at TLC 2012 was my MOTY for 2012. I watched it 7 or so times and it was great on every watch, didn't go down on any watch, how many matches can you say that for? 

It was just brilliant. Everything from the big intrigue surrounding The Shield's first match in the WWE, the all-out chaos in the match that made it feel like a match that wasn't from the PG Era. The great teamwork from The Shield, the well-timed comebacks from Team Hell No and Ryback, the whole match just flowed so well. The sick table bump Rollins took at the ended reminded us of what Tables, Ladders and Chairs matches are all about, and The Shield getting the sneaky victory at the end while Kane was taken out and Ryback was distracted, immediately legitimately established The Shield in the WWE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> The Shield vs Ryback and Team Hell No at TLC 2012 was my MOTY for 2012. I watched it 7 or so times and it was great on every watch, didn't go down on any watch, *how many matches can you say that for?*


BROCK VS CENA :mark: :mark: :mark:.

Seriously, Brock Vs Cena started off in my top 30 WWF/WWE matches ever, moved into the top 15, then the top 10, then #5, and now I have it at #4 and the best WWF/WWE match since HIAC I. Hell, maybe someday I'l watch it and it'll pass HIAC I although I highly doubt it.

One of the main reasons that Extreme Rules 2012 was the best PPV since Wrestlemania XIX ... MAYBE... I might need to check the old CAL SCALE for that one.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Same with Cena/Brock. Legit top 3 in wrestling history for me, and I don't just mean WWE.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Eulonzo said:


> Dat rapping. :vince2


Nobody can touch my rhythmic technique, homeboy. *shrugs shoulder*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think as time passes on, people will become more warm to the idea of placing it higher up on their 'best of' lists and such. Nostalgia is warm in the hearts of many and sometimes nostalgia serves only to cloud one's vision when it comes to overrating matches in the past compared to the present. For example; Brock Vs Cena DESTROYS Savage Vs Steamboat/Angle Vs Benoit/ETC, but most will look at the latter two matches as being vastly superior despite not having much of an argument to back up their claims.

Just watched Big Show Vs BROCK from Survivor Series 2002. They manage to accomplish more in four minutes than most matches accomplish in 20-30 minutes, fantastic. Might even take this over Hardy-Edge as well w/ the ribwork and everything thrown in considered. Brock is Big Show's hands down best opponent ever & I haven't even re-watched the Rumble match or the Judgment Day Stretcher match (one of my all time favorites) yet. The duo of matches they had in June 2003 were really, really good as well. ****** for The Survivor Series match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I think as time passes on, people will become more warm to the idea of placing it higher up on their 'best of' lists and such. Nostalgia is warm in the hearts of many and sometimes nostalgia serves only to cloud one's vision when it comes to overrating matches in the past compared to the present. For example; Brock Vs Cena DESTROYS Savage Vs Steamboat/Angle Vs Benoit/ETC, but most will look at the latter two matches as being vastly superior despite not having much of an argument to back up their claims.
> 
> Just watched Big Show Vs BROCK from Survivor Series 2002. They manage to accomplish more in four minutes than most matches accomplish in 20-30 minutes, fantastic. Might even take this over Hardy-Edge as well w/ the ribwork and everything thrown in considered. Brock is Big Show's hands down best opponent ever & I haven't even re-watched the Rumble match or the Judgment Day Stretcher match (one of my all time favorites) yet. The duo of matches they had in June 2003 were really, really good as well. ****** for The Survivor Series match.


I fucking love your Brock marking, I really need to finally start Platt's Lesnar comp ASAP, been meaning to for weeks now but time is tight, can't wait though, I've forgotten alot from.that era tbh.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Punk or Brock as far as IN RING WORK goes? Brock, for me personally.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I need to watch Brock/Cena again (think it's amazing as it stands) to see if I still get furious about the finish.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Brock because his style right now is unique


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Zep81, top 5 Liger matches?



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Just watched Big Show Vs BROCK from Survivor Series 2002. They manage to accomplish more in four minutes than most matches accomplish in 20-30 minutes, fantastic. Might even take this over Hardy-Edge as well w/ the ribwork and everything thrown in considered. Brock is Big Show's hands down best opponent ever & I haven't even re-watched the Rumble match or the Judgment Day Stretcher match (one of my all time favorites) yet. The duo of matches they had in June 2003 were really, really good as well. ****** for The Survivor Series match.


(Y)

That Survivor Series match is legit amazing. Judgement Day is obviously better w/ more time and more action (and more drama, well you get it).


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I think as time passes on, people will become more warm to the idea of placing it higher up on their 'best of' lists and such. Nostalgia is warm in the hearts of many and sometimes nostalgia serves only to cloud one's vision when it comes to overrating matches in the past compared to the present. For example; Brock Vs Cena DESTROYS Savage Vs Steamboat/Angle Vs Benoit/ETC, but most will look at the latter two matches as being vastly superior despite not having much of an argument to back up their claims.


I can't help but think you're somewhat biased (to put it mildly) considering your user name, avatar, and what I've seen you post. I think it was an awesome match but will it be looked back on as a classic? Unlikely. It wasn't ground breaking or anything. I think it was a fantastic match but that's it. There have been many many much much better matches.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Lesnar since his return:

vs. Cena (ER 2012) - ***1/2
vs. Triple H (Summerslam 2012) - *
vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 29) - *3/4

I just don't like his current style, it's too slow and boring. It's what killed the crowd in his two Triple H matches. This trilogy with Trips could very well end up being the worst I've seen.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

It wasn't "Ground Breaking"? It was arguably the first MMA style, true blood bath, best babyface performance by Cena match within the PG era.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Zep81, top 5 Liger matches?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've never seen this one and think the Surviver Series match is awesome. Will get on this eventually.

I'm interested in an essential Liger watching list as well. Right now I'm binging on him. Have watched all these today:
vs Sano - 1/31/90 - ****1/2. Liger tries to make it out alive. Sano tries to murder at first but then win.
vs Sano - 8/10/89 - ***1/2. Expert arm work. Liger sells like a champ and brings a good fight considering
vs Hart - 1/30/90 - ***1/4
vs Koshinaka - 12/9/88 - **3/4. Really really good considering the date. My expectations were low, therefore the match blew me away
vs Sano - 7/13/89 - **1/2. Botchfest.
vs Cima - Super J Cup 2000. **1/2. Young Cima doesn't know how to sell shit...or is that just the young lions spirit? Either way, I didn't enjoy it.
vs Sano - 9/20/89 - jip so n/r but from what was shown this was a super match. Sano squeeks out the W.
vs Benoit - 8/19/90 - jip so n/r but awesome as expected. i want mas.

Found the full version of the last match as well so will rewatch. I've seen that 1/31 match vs Sano many times and love it so much on every viewing.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I wonder if it's because he's aging or because of the UFC background that's making him do the slow style.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Lesnar since his return:

vs. Cena - Extreme Rules - *****3/4*
vs. Triple H - Summerslam - ******
vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania - *****, never thought i'd say this but HBK pissed me off during the match


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

People lose their shit over his MMA style, but I just can't seem to give a shit when it's a pro wrestling match. It looks realistic, okay well that's cool and all, but as a wrestling match Cena vs. Lesnar was a one sided, slow, badly paced match with a ridiculous finish. The reason I have the rating as high as ***1/2 is because of Cena's excellent performance in the match. Probably one of, if not the the most overrated match in the last few years.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Zep81, top 5 Liger matches?


Just a quick think:

Pillman - Superbrawl
Togo - 6/17/96
Great Sasuke - 4/29/26
Sono - 1/31/90
Owen Hart - 4/28/91 (I do really like this one)

Need to watch more Liger to get a better perspective as I only really discovered his work over the last year or so, the above poster may gave a better opinion.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Toryumon 6 Man Tag is still one my favs. Just saw a highlight reel of it.

Which Sasuke match is that?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah that '91 Owen match is essential viewing for sure. ***** from me. vs Sasuke from 7/8/94 is also one of the best and easily ****1/2+.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

top matches of 2012

Cena/Brock er 12 *****
hhh/taker *****
tlc 6 man tag ****3/4
cena/punk noc ****1/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> People lose their shit over his MMA style, but I just can't seem to give a shit when it's a pro wrestling match. It looks realistic, okay well that's cool and all, but as a wrestling match Cena vs. Lesnar was a one sided, slow, badly paced match with a ridiculous finish. The reason I have the rating as high as ***1/2 is because of Cena's excellent performance in the match. Probably one of, if not the the most overrated match in the last few years.


Lesnar's different to all the rest of the roster and that's part of his appeal.

Cena/Lesnar was fantastic. Cena played the babyface in peril so well which he has done for years and Lesnar played the unknown beast. You didn't know what steps he would take next, again part of his appeal. The match was structured beautifully, the ending people say Cena should have won, maybe so. But he didn't and the ending was the perfect way to end the brutal match. 

Ridiculous finish?! How, in what way?

Cena hit a running Lesnar with a steel chain and hit his finisher onto the steel steps. It didn't knock Lesnar out for long but long enough for the three count.

Fucking amazing match, completely out of the blue too.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I really don't like that Pillman match. Pillman's selling is godawful there.

Look at us with the dual conversations.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

zep81 said:


> Just a quick think:
> 
> Pillman - Superbrawl
> Togo - 6/17/96
> ...


No love for the Sasuke match from 94?

It's also come to my attention that I've never seen the Flair/Steamboat match from March '89 in Maryland. What's everyone say about that? It's the match Meltzer gave 6 stars to lol.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm not sure I'm thinking of the right match, but if it is, Melzter overrated it to hell.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> No love for the Sasuke match from 94?


Yeah, that is the one I meant lol, damn phone wrote the year 26 instead of 94 for some reason :lol



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I really don't like that Pillman match. Pillman's selling is godawful there.
> 
> Look at us with the dual conversations.


Yeah I hear ya with the selling argument, tbh they had a, IMO, a better match in Meadowlands in 1992 ( handheld footage available). I should have named that one really...


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

There were actually two awesome matches between Liger and Sasuke from 94. One was in the Super J Cup in April and one in July I mentioned above.



> Yeah, that is the one I meant lol, damn phone wrote the 26 for some reason


Did you mean 4/29/96 because they had another awesome match on that date.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> There were actually two awesome matches between Liger and Sasuke from 94. One was in the Super J Cup in April and one in July I mentioned above.
> 
> Did you mean 4/29/96 because they had another awesome match on that date.


Having checked, yeah that's the one mate  Sure the '94 one I was thinking if is from 4/16/1994

Great sig btw.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

How about last 3 matches from certain wrestlers (still active/on hiatus/retired/whatever you want):

Lesnar's last 3 matches:

vs. Cena - Extreme Rules - ****1/4
-The brutality in this is off the charts. Lesnar absolutely brutalizes Cena throughout, busting him up, damn near breaking his arm, which Cena sold as a broken arm. Hell, Cena sold the exhaustion and the arm perfectly... throughout the match anyway (hell, I don't think post-match was THAT bad). Lesnar losing was a huge mistake in itself but how it was done, in such fluky fashion with Cena catching a very lucky break, and then using what would later become as apparent as Lesnar's kryptonite, the steel steps, to hit the AA on Lesnar on them and just barely getting the win, was as good as it was gonna be. Fantastic, top 50 match of all time, and the number 3 match of 2012.

vs. Triple H - Summerslam - ***
vs. Triple H - Wrestlemania 29- *
-Gave my thoughts on those two matches a few pages back.

Last 3 Taker matches:

vs. Punk WM29- ****1/2
w/ Team Hell No vs. The Shield Raw- ****
vs. Ambrose SD- ***

Last three HHH matches:

vs. Taker WM28- ****
vs. Lesnar SS- ***
vs. Lesnar WM29- *

Last 3 Punk matches:

vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13- ****
vs. Kane Raw March- ** (Honestly, don't remember the match that well)
vs. Taker WM29- ****1/2

Last 3 Rock matches:

vs. Punk RR- ***
vs. Punk EC- ***1/4
vs. Cena WM29- **1/4

Last 3 Cena Matches (I can recall):

vs. Henry Raw 4/8- **1/2
w/ Team Hell No vs. The Shield Raw a few weeks ago- ***1/4
w/ Team Hell No vs. The Shield Raw Elimination Match- ***1/2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Ahh feck it,

Last 3 Taker matches:

vs. Punk WM29- ****1/4
w/ Team Hell No vs. The Shield Raw- ***3/4
vs. Ambrose SD- **

Last three HHH matches:

vs. Taker WM28- ****1/4
vs. Lesnar SS- ****
vs. Lesnar WM29- ***

Last 3 Punk matches:

vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13- ****1/2
vs. Kane Raw March- *
vs. Taker WM29- ****1/4

Last 3 Rock matches:

vs. Punk RR- *DUD*
vs. Punk EC- *1/2**
vs. Cena WM29- *1/2

Last 3 Cena Matches (I can recall):

vs. Henry Raw 4/8- **
w/ Team Hell No vs. The Shield Raw a few weeks ago- ***
w/ Team Hell No vs. The Shield Raw Elimination Match- ***1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Toryumon 6 Man Tag is still one my favs. Just saw a highlight reel of it.


Speaking of Liger matches but focusing on past his peak, you seen the NOAH vs New Japan junior interpromotional tags from '02? Liger/Inoue vs Kanemaru/Kikuchi from NOAH 2/17 was the best of the series imo and a fabulous match. Chock full of hatred and supreme heat, Liger being a brilliant dickhead and Kikuchi being damn great in the fired up proud NOAH babyface role.

Liger/Rey from Starrcade '96 is also pretty super. Was worried when watching it that it would disappoint but Liger played the vicious heel to a tee and they worked a great dynamic with Mysterio's highspots being countered by Liger's vicious and punishing offence.




-Mystery- said:


> It's also come to my attention that I've never seen the Flair/Steamboat match from March '89 in Maryland. What's everyone say about that? It's the match Meltzer gave 6 stars to lol.


Is Maryland the Landover one? I know they have two on the same day with the other being in Philadelphia but being a UKer I'm unsure on the geography logistics. If its the one in Landover I had that as a top 3 match from WCW covering '89-01. I still think COTC is their best match (and Chi Town is a personal favourite) but when watching the poll the Landover 3/18 match was their second best match imo. Think I had the Philly House Show match on the same day at around #32.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ligers' matches with Eddie as Black Tiger were really great as well. Don't remember dates right now and too pressed for time to look but they had a BOTSJ Final (96?) and IWGP Jr. Title match (96 as well I believe) that're both super ennjoyable.

Can't forget his match with Benoit (Pegasus Kid or Wild Pegasus, idr) from the Hard Knocks dvd either.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Chris Benoit vs Kevin Sullivan - Falls Count Anywhere - WCW Great American Bash 1996 *(****1/4)*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^ That match is so much fun. Do yourself a favor and watch the entire event if you have it or come across it. Rey vs. Malenko, Sting vs. Regal, & The Horsemen vs. NFL Players tag are all really, really good. Fun big man tag opener too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ligers' matches with Eddie as Black Tiger were really great as well. Don't remember dates right now and too pressed for time to look but they had a BOTSJ Final (96?) and IWGP Jr. Title match (96 as well I believe) that're both super ennjoyable.
> 
> Can't forget his match with Benoit (Pegasus Kid or Wild Pegasus, idr) from the Hard Knocks dvd either.


I think Pegasus Kid is the masked version and Wild Pegasus is the one without a mask.

I really need to watch some more Japanese wrestling. Might as well line up this Benoit/Liger match I just googled.

-----------------

A few random ratings for matches I've recently (re)watched:

Randy Orton vs Christian - (Smackdown 6/5/11) - ★★★★
Randy Orton vs Christian - (Capitol Punishment) - ★★★½
Randy Orton vs Christian - (Money in the Bank) - ★★★¾
Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs Alberto del Rio - (Over the Limit) - ★★★¾


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Speaking of Liger matches but focusing on past his peak, you seen the NOAH vs New Japan junior interpromotional tags from '02? Liger/Inoue vs Kanemaru/Kikuchi from NOAH 2/17 was the best of the series imo and a fabulous match. Chock full of hatred and supreme heat, Liger being a brilliant dickhead and Kikuchi being damn great in the fired up proud NOAH babyface role.


I don't remember ever seeing this match. Will check it out.



> Liger/Rey from Starrcade '96 is also pretty super. Was worried when watching it that it would disappoint but Liger played the vicious heel to a tee and they worked a great dynamic with Mysterio's highspots being countered by Liger's vicious and punishing offence.


This is a great match.

Thoughts on Liger/Muta 10/96?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone seen Liger's match with Randy Savage? Havnt got around to seeing that one yet...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I think Pegasus Kid is the masked version and Wild Pegasus is the one without a mask.
> 
> I really need to watch some more Japanese wrestling. Might as well line up this Benoit/Liger match I just googled.


BINGO. Good call. You need to watch this asap:






Total classic and the best match between the two. Parts 2 and 3 on the side.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ^^ That match is so much fun. Do yourself a favor and watch the entire event if you have it or come across it. Rey vs. Malenko, Sting vs. Regal, & The Horsemen vs. NFL Players tag are all really, really good. Fun big man tag opener too.


Had to open up DM to rewatch it, _Hard Knocks_ has been stopping for me lately and may just reach that unreadable level, , knowing there's no copes in stores. EBAY is a shining beacon though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Thoughts on Liger/Muta 10/96?


More of a spectacle than a match to me, but it's a fucking awesome spectacle. Love Muta's look on his face when Liger's mask and attire are ripped off to reveal the beastliness.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I don't remember ever seeing this match. Will check it out.
> 
> This is a great match.
> 
> Thoughts on Liger/Muta 10/96?


Sure its on youtube/dailymotion or ditch's page if you prefer a download link to streaming sites (Y) .

I don't think I've seen Liger/Muta truthfully. Never been a big fan of Muta in the ring outside of a handful of matches (will forever love Arn/Muta for the TV title). Still Liger had pretty much a career resurgance in '96 producing matches not far off his best with Sano in their famed '89/90 series. I'll make a note to try and track it down.

edit: Benoit/Eddie from BOSJ '96 is far and away their best match. Might even be the best juniors match New Japan put on although the best of Liger's matches could put up a good challenge. Might call it Benoit's best match but then again I'm a huge advocate of the Austin '01 match. I'm not sure if I'd take it as Eddie's best match (Rey Smackdown 6/23/05 or the JBL Judgement Day '04 classic would both likely be ahead) but I doubt it would be below top three for Eddie's career.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> BINGO. Good call. You need to watch this asap:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, will check it out after this 3SOH match with Orton/HHH and then Benoit/Liger.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Muta sucks. Not as bad as Mutoh though 8*D [/lame private joke only like 3 people here will get]


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'm off to watch Tenryu/KENTA 10/8/05 Cal. You wouldn't by any chance have seen it before would you? :hmm:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> Muta sucks. Not as bad as Mutoh though 8*D [/lame private joke only like 3 people here will get]


Let me guess, the 3 people you talk about here are: bigcal27, FuckChristmas and KingCal?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just finished that match from the Hard Knocks dvd. I'd give that ***3/4+. I saw Liger has a match against Hashimoto. Anxiously waiting to get to '94.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm off to watch Tenryu/KENTA 10/8/05 Cal. You wouldn't by any chance have seen it before would you? :hmm:


I've seen this. I won't spoil it with my thoughts though. It's well worth the time though. A good ***1/2+ match...don't remember exactly but probably not 4* worthy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm off to watch Tenryu/KENTA 10/8/05 Cal. You wouldn't by any chance have seen it before would you? :hmm:


Don't think so. Sounds awesome though, I should go watch it now!!!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> I've seen this. I won't spoil it with my thoughts though. It's well worth the time though. A good ***1/2+ match...don't remember exactly but probably not 4* worthy.


Ha, I've seen it. It was a follow up to Cal's post above it where he was talking about an inside joke. This also falls into said category. I really dug it the last time I saw it, perfect for the time allotted and another demonstration that KENTA vs heavyweights will always see KENTA at his best compared to facing someone his own size not named Bryan Danielson. I'd take the Takayama/KENTA '04 match over it as far as KENTA vs surly heavyweight bruisers go, both are excellent.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Have you seen TAK vs KENTA from 2011? Better than 04 by a good margin. ****1/4+ imo


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah I did see it, but it might have been sometime in late '11. I think at the time I preferred the '04 match, although I've seen that one again since I last saw the '11 match so tbh I could end up thinking entirely differently. Still, as much as I still enjoy Takayama I do think his committment to working strong style has affected him badly in the ring and just made it hard for him to work as well as he did in '02-04 where he was on fire. He's certainly got the offence and overall structure and awareness to exceed his obvious current limitations, but I'd have to watch both to make an informed decision and going off gut feeling I'd be surprised if I found peak Takayama to be outdone by his '11 counterpart.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

Anyone catch main event last night. Anything worth watching.


----------



## What_A_Maneuver! (Aug 4, 2011)

Ignore


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Woke up this morning and suddenly got in the mood for some RON SIMMONS. Any recommendations? I heard that he had a good 2/3 falls match with Luger.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

kanerules88 said:


> Anyone catch main event last night. Anything worth watching.


Yeah. It was an okay show but nothing stellar. Kane/Rollins and Gabriel/Rhodes were two pretty decent matches but I expected more tbh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Anyone seen Liger's match with Randy Savage? Havnt got around to seeing that one yet...


I remember it being pretty good. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Woke up this morning and suddenly got in the mood for some RON SIMMONS. Any recommendations? I heard that he had a good 2/3 falls match with Luger.


Watch the title win from Vader and then a bunch of DOOM tags. Also Simmons/Windham/Dustin v. Arn/Eaton/Zbyszko, Clash 1/21/92, but that's less about Simmons and more about the Dangerous motherfucking Alliance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hahaha. I think GOATantics kept trying to ask who Savage is above on the list (who he's better than) and Cody's just like nah, fuck that. I'm twistin this shit around.





GOATAntics said:


> Yep, Hayley's comprehension skills are reaching that "pure shit" status p). I didn't feel like explaining either.
> 
> 
> 
> PS: I was kidding about the comprehension, Please don't destroy me.


That's what I get for coming on late at night after a night swooning alcohol. Either way...I'm not much of a "top workers one by one" listing kind of guy. The great ones are on one side & the others are on another. Simple.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Listing wrestlers not as good as Randy Savage would take thousands and thousands of hours to do, anyway. Then again I didn't read the conversation that took place and I would be even more confused than Cody on what everyone is talking about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I eventually got to put over Bobby Eaton. That alone made the conversation hit a peak.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H - Summerslam 2012: *****

Finally got around watching this match. I heard that this match got mixed reactions, but after watching it, I could say that I really enjoyed the match. I love the big fight feel of this match since I felt that it had the same feel as Brock's match with Cena, even though the crowd for this wasn't as hot. I enjoyed Brock working on Triple H's arm from continuously going for the kimura to doing some big impact move. I also thought that Brock removing his gloves was bad-ass lol. The momentum changed with Triple H dragging Brock's gut to the corner of the announcer's table and Triple H working on the gut with punches and knees, whcih causes Cole bringing up Brock's history of stomach problems. Triple H does the pedigree, kick out, Brock does the F-5, kick out, Triple H does another pedigree and gets caught with a kimura which makes Hunter tap out and breaks his arm in the process. Overall, I really enjoyed this match and I think I'm in the minority that liked their Wrestlemania encounter. Can't wait for their Extreme Rules match.


----------



## Jimix (Jun 1, 2011)

Does anyone have a link for Danielson & Castagnoli vs Quashenbuck & Jigsaw from Chikara in 2009?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Undertaker vs Big Show inside the steel cage from Smackdown 5/12/2008. ★★★½ for this and a hell of a match that makes it an awesome trilogy along with NM and CS. Taker doing the throat slash instead of escaping the cage and then missing the Leap of Faith made me laugh, though. :lol

Other matches I've checked out (or rewatched) recently:

Randy Orton vs Triple H - The Bash 2009 - ★★★
Orton vs HHH - No Mercy 07 - ★★★½
Orton vs HHH - NM 07 (LMS) - ★★★★½
Orton vs HHH vs Big Show vs Cena - Raw - ★★★

This Orton list should be a fun ride!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Orton/HHH LMS :mark: possibly a top 5 match for Orton, definitely top 10. HHH's best babyface performance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Bash match between the two. MY EYES.

Those two in Last Man Standing matches - without injuries - are beacons of light for their program. Think they might be the only matches I enjoy when they locked it up. Excluding the awesome six man from Backlash '09.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Orton/HHH - NM '07 LMS - ****1/2
Orton/HHH - NM '07 - ***1/4
Orton/HHH - 3SOH GAB '09 - *
Orton/HHH/Cena/Show - Raw '09 - ***1/4
Taker/Show - Cage SD '08 - ***1/2

Also:

Trips/Orton - LMS Raw '09 - ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The only Ron Simmons match I've seen that I can recommend is Doom vs. Arn & Windham from Halloween Havoc '90. Awesome sub 10 minute brawl. 

Trips vs. Orton RAW '09 LMS - *** 3/4 (high one at that, superb selling and storytelling)

Wish they'd release their No Mercy '07 match on a dvd at some point...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You did *NOT* give the Bash match three stars. 

I refuse to believe that I just saw that with my two eyes, such a BAD match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

smackdown ec 12 ***1/2

* big show was really good in this, shocking
* how does Khail have a job doses her bring that much money from india ?
* Once ziggler is done with the WHC, Bryan should really get another run


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/HHH - NM '07 LMS - ***3/4
Orton/HHH - NM '07 - **
Orton/HHH - 3SOH GAB '09 - 1/2*
Orton/HHH/Cena/Show - Raw '09 - ***
Taker/Show - Cage SD '08 - ***1/2


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Big show /taker/lensar in 02-3 for a shot at Kurt angles title the next week on sd

A lot of high impact everyone got in their finisher and offense 

*** 3/4 minimum


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

has there ever been another main eventer that just doesn't click with other main eventers besides orton ? besides the very few decent matches he has with the likes of Cena,hhh etc he has some really bad ones.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

I used to mark hard for orton when he came in 03-04 and was world champ. He was great to 06 then after that he just became super stiff


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Any bullrope matches besides Eddie and jbl worth watching


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

96powerstroker said:


> Any bullrope matches besides Eddie and jbl worth watching


Sting Vs Vader. Superbrawl III.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's technically a Caribbean Strap Match, but Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega from some In Your House in '96 (the one where the lights went out and they had to redo the whole ppv I believe) is absolutely awesome. Been a good few years since I've seen it, but I gave it **** 1/2.

WOOLCOCK always plugs Stan Hansen vs. Carlos Colon from WWC in Puerto Rico as a great bullrope match, but I've never seen it personally.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

^^^ - That's a 1996 MOTY honorable mention for me, ****1/4. Austin's first great match and with an inferior worker, surprisingly.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Austin v. Savio Vega is really great, yeah. I wasn't sure how it'd hold up, but I saw it again a year ago and it kinda blew me away. Austin was fucking with anybody in the US in 1996.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thought I was the only guy who was blown away by how good Austin vs Savio was.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The DREAM TEAM (Brock/Benoit) Vs Team Angle (Handicap Match; No Way Out 2003): **** 3/4*

Don't know which match I like more; this or Taker Vs Big Show from the same show. I never really thought about this until today, but Big Show fucking RULED in 2003. SURE he was in there with guys like Brock/Eddie/Taker, but the big man delivered in every single one of his big matches that year, mad props to the guy.

BTW, I can't be the only guy who might have Mysterio over Eddie & Benoit, right? I don't even think I need to go into detail about this, I just think how Mysterio was able to shift his game from more of a high flying style in the 90s and early 2000s to a pure WWE FIP style once his body started wearing down around 2005ish, thus propelling him to main event status around the same time. The body of work speaks for itself too; aainst bigger guys, against cruiserweights, Rey was extremely versatile and is hands down the greatest babyface worker ever from where I sit. Actually, I MIIIGHHTT have Eddie over him due to Eddie having the ability to work a compelling control segment as a heel yet at the same time a few weeks later work an inspiring babyface comeback. It would probably go; Eddie, Rey, Benoit.... But they'd all be in that same tier and you can't go wrong with either one so it's cool.

Top 5 workers in WWF/WWE history anybody (looking at bodies of work strictly within the parameters of the E', as in Barry Windham wouldn't count even though he's one of the greatest ever)? It's such a hard fucking question. I mean, Taker/Rey/Eddie/Benoit would HAVE to all be in there, am I right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought that was slightly good. Nothing more.

Taker vs Show >>>


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Mysterio over Benoit, maybe, never Eddie tho.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Top 5 workers in WWF/WWE history anybody (looking at bodies of work strictly within the parameters of the E', as in Barry Windham wouldn't count even though he's one of the greatest ever)? It's such a hard fucking question. I mean, Taker/Rey/Eddie/Benoit would HAVE to all be in there, am I right?


Yeah I'd have to agree with Guerrero, Benoit, Mysterio and Taker being top 5 in the 'E. I'm thinking Austin is my 5th guy. I'm sure a lot of people would go with Michaels or Hart and I can understand why.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> BTW, I can't be the only guy who might have Mysterio over Eddie & Benoit, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Top 5 workers in WWF/WWE history anybody (looking at bodies of work strictly within the parameters of the E', as in Barry Windham wouldn't count even though he's one of the greatest ever)? It's such a hard fucking question. I mean, Taker/Rey/Eddie/Benoit would HAVE to all be in there, am I right?


If Rey retired in 2008 I'd take Eddie over him for sure. Rey's 2009 and 2010 were too strong, though. And when it's all said and done I'd have Rey as the #1 WWE worker ever. I think Eddie and Benoit would be in my top 5. Bob Backlund definitely would. I'm thinking Randy Savage, too, so I guess that rounds out the top 5. I'm tentative saying that, though. Austin's right there.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

My top five workers are Taker, Jericho, Michaels, Eddie and Benoit. Mysterio had to many low points for me to be top 5 but I have no issue with others putting him there.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What low points? How were they lower they Taker having bad matches for many years, and then even having bad/average matches in his good years?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

His World Title runs for starters. In fact his 2006 as a whole was pretty dreadful. In 03 and 04 he also didn't do to much impressive work either. His injuries also took giant chunks of time out from what he could have done. 02, 05, 09 and 10 are the only good years he had. He also spent way to much time facing Chavo. This is all just opinion but I'm not as big on Mysterio.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Based on bodies of work in the WWE: Austin, Benoit, Mysterio, Jericho, Bret Hart.

I'd include Angle if he didn't annoy me so damn much. Too many stupid matches on top of his great stuff. Undertaker has a bunch of stinkers. Michaels is overrated. Not high on Eddie. I'll openly admit I don't have enough knowledge of pre-90's WWE to talk about guys like Savage or Backlund.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm not as big on Mysterio as some, but when the man gives it 110%, in stuff like the WHC EC 2009, very few if any can top him.

As far as my top 5 goat WWE workers (in no order): Taker, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and Rey Mysterio are the five that come to mind first.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Fully agreed I love quite a few Mysterio matches. We are talking top five of all time though and he doesn't make that cut for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mysterio was ultra bossy in 2003. 

among just about every year sans 2012. Even then he managed to have some good matches before being put with Sin Cara. Even then it managed to actually work out on a decent level.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Mysterio had plenty of great matches in 2003. He did all that you can while only being able to wrestle for maybe 12 minutes at a time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania 19 being a great example. Less than six minutes and has a terrific match vs Matt Hardy.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

He has two cool matches with Tajiri on SmackDown! and No Mercy, too. Not to mention the tag matches with Kidman vs. Haas/Benjamin.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Dark Church said:


> His World Title runs for starters. In fact his 2006 as a whole was pretty dreadful. In 03 and 04 he also didn't do to much impressive work either. His injuries also took giant chunks of time out from what he could have done. 02, 05, 09 and 10 are the only good years he had. He also spent way to much time facing Chavo. This is all just opinion but I'm not as big on Mysterio.


Rey was top 5 in the world in 2006. Hell, I could see him as #1. Have you seen his Henry, JBL, Orton, Angle, Finlay, Regal matches that year? I don't remember the Chavo matches. I mean if you don't love 2006 Rey they OK, but 'dreadful' is ridiculous.

In 2004 he had OUTSTANDING matches with Chavo, Eddie, Jamie Noble and he carried those cruiser opens.

His injuries did handicap him from being better (which is scary b/c of how good his career is), but he was only around a few months of a year like 2007 and had an exceptional Finlay match and a really good Jamie Noble match back-to-back weeks.

I still don't see how that is any worse than Taker's mediocre (or worse) 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 99, 00, 01, and then years like 98 which weren't terribly good. 


----
2012 would be the worst Rey year ever, right? What was his 2000 like overall?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

In all honesty I wasn't watching until 98 so the only Taker matches I have seen before that are on dvd sets. I also didn't watch Smackdown from about 05- three months ago except the rare occasion. As far as PPV goes though I have seen everything since Mysterio came in. His 06 PPV wise was awful. JBL, Booker, Rumble and Chavo matches were average at best. Once again I like him but he isn't top five for me. I could list five Taker matches that are better than anything Rey has done in WWE.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

How do you justify having Eddie Guerrero in a list of top 5 workers in WWE history? Consistency? Because off the top of my head I can only recall two matches that I would call CLASSICS involving him and that's against Lesnar and JBL (Judgement Day). I guess an argument can be made for one or two of his bouts with Rey Mysterio, but still.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I view his match with Angle at Wrestlemania as a classic. The no dq match with Edge is also a personal favorite of mine. Eddie was my #5 though and a tough choice but I felt he belonged. A lot of guys have argument to belong. It all comes down to what you personally like the most.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What's scary about Mysterio is that as awesome as he was in this millennium, he was just as good (if not better) in the mid-late 90s. Everyone should take the opportunity to watch his WCW/ECW run in 1996. The man was a walking four-star match waiting to happen.

EDIT: Top Five WWE workers in history

Bret Hart
Shawn Michaels
Chris Benoit
Undertaker
Rey Mysterio

And as for the debate between Mysterio, Benoit, and Guerrero, I was always partial to Benoit. I don't know if any North American wrestler had a body of work as awesome as his from 1995 until his death. Off the top of my head, he is probably the only guy that I can surely say was elite in brawling, high-flying, and "technical" wrestling. He also had my second favorite world title reign of the past ten years in the WWE. Of course, the gap between these three is obviously minuscule.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ruiner87 said:


> He has two cool matches with Tajiri on SmackDown! and No Mercy, too. Not to mention the tag matches with Kidman vs. Haas/Benjamin.


(Y)

His 2004 starts off with a bang in another great match vs Tajiri. One could argue that was their best together.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Fandango said:


> How do you justify having Eddie Guerrero in a list of top 5 workers in WWE history? Consistency? Because off the top of my head I can only recall two matches that I would call CLASSICS involving him and that's against Lesnar and JBL (Judgement Day). I guess an argument can be made for one or two of his bouts with Rey Mysterio, but still.


By looking past the amount of 'classics' he was in and recognizing what he did in the ring on a supremely consistent basis. I don't think anyone rivals Eddie in terms of being able to work brilliantly as a babyface or a heel, serious or fun. He had all the tools. He could work with big guys, small guys, technical guys, brawlers, it didn't matter. The guy just knew how to put together a wrestling match and went above and beyond with character work, selling, and superb little touches to make the most out of everything. I don't even have to bring up his technical ability or 'workrate', which was top notch. People talk about wrestlers being emotive. I don't know if that's the right word or if you get what I mean but basically the ability to get in the ring and make pro wrestling look like more than scripted moves. Eddie was amazing at that. Also, how many Eddie Guerrero matches can you point to and say they were actively bad or he was bad in them? Not many. Not many at all. You can't say the same for Taker, Michaels, HHH, Cena, etc. (guys who have been in more 'classics' than Guerrero).

Daniel Bryan is comfortably the best worker in the company today imo. How many classics does he have in WWE? It's more about consistency and talent when it comes to judging a wrestler.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd struggle to call 15 WWE matches ever 'classics' tbh. I'd put Rey/Eddie 6/23/05 near top 10 WWE matches ever, and the JBL match should be somewhere in the top 30. Three other Rey matches, the Big Show match, the best Eddie/Tajiri v. WGTT, the Lesnar match, maybe Eddie/Benoit 05 and another JBL match, would all make my top 100. He was WWE's best wrestler from 2002-2005 and a worldwide WOTYC in 04 and 05. He wasn't always having great matches but he was consistent. I could understand why the short run would turn people off of putting him top 5, but how low would people who don't, put him?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Saint Dick said:


> By looking past the amount of 'classics' he was in and recognizing what he did in the ring on a supremely consistent basis. I don't think anyone rivals Eddie in terms of being able to work brilliantly as a babyface or a heel, serious or fun. He had all the tools. He could work with big guys, small guys, technical guys, brawlers, it didn't matter. The guy just knew how to put together a wrestling match and went above and beyond with character work, selling, and superb little touches to make the most out of everything. I don't even have to bring up his technical ability or 'workrate', which was top notch. People talk about wrestlers being emotive. I don't know if that's the right word or if you get what I mean but basically the ability to get in the ring and make pro wrestling look like more than scripted moves. Eddie was amazing at that. Also, how many Eddie Guerrero matches can you point to and say they were actively bad or he was bad in them? Not many. Not many at all. You can't say the same for Taker, Michaels, HHH, Cena, etc. (guys who have been in more 'classics' than Guerrero).
> 
> Daniel Bryan is comfortably the best worker in the company today imo. How many classics does he have in WWE? It's more about consistency and talent when it comes to judging a wrestler.


All valid points, but his longevity (or lack there of) throws me off. He was only there for 5 years when guys like Taker, Mysterio, and Benoit have been/are there for (nearly) a decade or more. Consistency is a nice thing to have, but to me, I can't put you near the top of my list if you haven't been there for too long. The only exception I'd make is possibly Brock Lesnar just because of the ridiculous ratio of what I would deem "classic" matches in his short stint. 

For the record, my top 5 would consist of:

Taker
Benoit
Jericho
Bret
HBK

in no particular order.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Opinions on Rey/Psychosis BatB '96?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Top 5 workers for me, personally: Taker, Eddie, Rey, Benoit & Brock.

Objectively speaking: Eddie, Rey, Benoit, Shawn & Bret.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Opinions on Rey/Psychosis BatB '96?


Great match. Gets loads of time to just about steal that show. I liked Mysterio's matches in ECW, but I'd say this has his series vs Psicosis there trumped. Don't think I'm wrong either. Of course, that's more opinion based.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Opinions on Rey/Psychosis BatB '96?


I just watched this match a few days ago. Normally I'm not too big on WCW stuff, but Jericho praised their chemistry in his book so I figured I had to check one of their matches out.

***1/2, I thought it was fun. I'm not aware of what times were like in 1996, but surely people weren't used to seeing high flying stuff like this at the time, at least in NA. Psicosis' outfit was quite cool too.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, I just watched it for the second time. Amazing match. ****** easy. Better than Rey/Eddie HH for me.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I've got Rey/Psychosis at ****1/4. Awesome match, although obviously not mind-blowing given the seventeen years of North American wrestling that has happened since then. Still a classic, though.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

It holds up really well imo. No major flaws and the spots and story are great.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am probably the biggest advocate of Rey/Psychosis BaTB. Second greatest PPV opener of all time behind WM X. *****3/4*

Rey in 1996 was a king among peasants:

vs. Malenko GAB, 6/17, 7/8, 8/15, 12/30
vs. Ultimo Dragon Hog Wild, 8/12
vs. Super Calo 9/15
vs. Jerry Lynn 8/26, 12/23
vs. Liger Starrcade
vs. Ciclope 11/11


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I have it on par with Bret/Owen.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Funny how they edited out the part where Trish does her taunt before the Stratusfaction, Mickie grabs her vagina, Trish pushes her away and Mickie licks her hand and has her hand positioned as if it's Trish's vagina and the crowd marks out. :lmao :lmao :lmao

The crowd was kinda've funny during the match. Mickie made Trish botch the Stratusfaction, then the crowd instantly started chanting "BOTCH, BOTCH, BOTCH". :lol They also booed Trish 50% of the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Yeah, I just watched it for the second time. Amazing match. ****** easy. Better than Rey/Eddie HH for me.


I'd probably have Halloween Havoce '97 over it. Tempted to watch right now _(I say that here and there, but I do mean it)_ and see how they compare. I wonder how it compares to Eddie vs Mysterio from World War 3 '97. That's the one match between those two I seem to be the highest advocate of. I think it's fabulous.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

little late but Rey is definitely top 5 worker in wwe history, 

Rey
Shawn
Taker
Jericho 
Eddie

No order


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One thing that completely gets shunned when it comes to Mysterio in 2006 is his epic Rumble performance alongside Triple H from start to finish. I mean, that's HIS match and I don't really think anybody can dispute that, it's one of the greatest Rumbles ever too (dare I say it's just as good as the Benoit performance in 2004? Maybe, but not sure, IDK). Then he was going out and having fantastic matches with Randy Orton, Mark Henry, JBL, Finlay, RVD, etc... Was he worker of the year that year? I don't really think so, as we had guys like Finlay & Benoit setting the world completely on fire, but you could certainly make a case for Rey being that guy.

For the record; Rey is my WWE WOTY in 2009 & MAAAYYYYBE 2010. MAYBE. DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT ONE, NOT SURE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey was the MAN in 2010 just screams consistency

Him or Punk or Jericho would be my WOTY for 2009 also


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

To be honest, I need to watch more of Rey's 2010 as I was away for most of it.

Talking about individual years that I really enjoy, Brock in 2003 gets the WOTY nod now that I've seen all of the matches and I've been able to review them all & YEAH, I think Brock did his job better than anybody else that year. There's a few matches that I certainly need to rewatch (JD, SS, NM), but I've seen all the TV matches and just how he was able to work multiple top 50 matches in WWE history on TV nonetheless while at the same time going out there and giving us some of the best squashes ever seen on WWE television is just fantastic. Of course, he's in GOD mode now wherein I truly think he might be the best worker in the entire company on a match to match basis, but his initial run & 2003 as a whole is definitely something else. One full calendar year worked; one WWE WOTY.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

2006 Rumble was all Game. Mysterio was just sort of there.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What everyones WOTY since 03 ?

Here mine- HM are really runner ups

03- Brock HM Shawn
04- Benoit
05- Eddie-Rey HM- HHH
06
07- Cena HM-taker
08- Shawn HM Jericho
09- 
10- Rey HM- Dbryan
11- Henry HM-Punk
12 -Punk HM Ziggler

* didnt watch that much in years blank- 2009 from what Ive seen are the ones mentioned b4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching some random Extreme Rules matches to gear up for Sunday.

Punk/Orton - ER 2011 - ***3/4. Fun last man standing match, but Punk should have gone over at Mania, then give Orton his win back at ER. 

Punk/Mysterio - ER 2010 - ***1/2. Honestly didn't see anything special here. Both guys were good, but nothing jumped out at me. SES was banned, but Joey Mercury under the hoodie was hiding beneath the ring and interfered to help Punk pick up the win. 

Lesna/Cena - ER 2012 - ****1/2. The match is great - Brock is a beast and Cena's selling is really good (sometimes he forgets to sell the arm), but I still can't get over that quick finish. So many directions they could have gone with this, but luckily for WWE, Brock can be gone for months on end, come back and people forget he lost and he's still a monster.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WOTY since 03:

03- Brock
04- Chris Benoit HM- Eddie Guerrero
05- Eddie Guerrero HM- Undertaker
06- Fit Finlay HM- Chris Benoit
07- Undertaker HM- John Cena
08- Undertaker HM- Shawn Michaels
09- Hm... guess I'll go with Rey here, for his EC performance and he had an awesome match with Morrison on Smackdown, and don't remember anything bad from him, aside from WM, which was more short than bad... OH, AND ALSO THE JERICHO FEUD! GAB match is amazing.
10- Rey HM- Dbryan
11- CM Punk HM- Randy Orton
12 - CM Punk HM Daniel Bryan
13 (so far)- CM Punk HM- Daniel Bryan


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ I forgot about that orton/taker series in 2005 but Ill still go with rey-eddie for that year. I may be in the minority but I prefer HHH "king of KIngs" 04-05 run in ring as opposed to his 00 run


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Taker was WOTY in 1997, NO CONTEST.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2009 WOTY = CHRISTIAN .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

08 honorable mention for Matt Hardy


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cal, Do you write overall-opinion reviews or JUST overview/play by play reviews?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Big Z said:


> 2009 WOTY = CHRISTIAN .


Hm, Christian. I could probably put him as the honorable mention.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

In 2007 Cena>Taker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Srdjan99 said:


> In 2007 Cena>Taker.


Taker>Cena in 2007.

Speaking of Taker, found this promo hilarious:






:lmao If Taker wasn't bigger than 95% of the roster, I think he could've played a cowardly, talking behind the opponent's back kinda heel extremely well.

Edit: HOLY FUCK, I landed on the Taker Big Evil Gold Mine with this channel. Taker being all badass at the end of this video, surveying the carnage:






Edit 2: TAKER TAKING BACK HIS YARD! (at about 5:45)






Edit 3: The Mania match that never was...


----------



## TheIbar (Apr 26, 2012)

I know that this post doesn't fit into this thread, but who the hell visits the "Media Requests" forum? So I'm looking for a match on Raw/SD between DX and Jeri-Show, when The Undertaker kind of distracted Shawn which led to DX losing their titles (or may be that wasn't a Tag Team titles match).


----------



## Sensesfail (May 17, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^ I forgot about that orton/taker series in 2005 but Ill still go with rey-eddie for that year. I may be in the minority but I prefer HHH "king of KIngs" 04-05 run in ring as opposed to his 00 run


i love your sig


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ordered the Rey Mysterio: 619 DVD from Silvervision, only £3.99 now, includes the BATB '96 match with Psicosis :mark: grabbed a couple of PPV's too, most items have been further reduced, not that much left now...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> One thing that completely gets shunned when it comes to Mysterio in 2006 is his epic Rumble performance alongside Triple H from start to finish. I mean, that's HIS match and I don't really think anybody can dispute that, it's one of the greatest Rumbles ever too (dare I say it's just as good as the Benoit performance in 2004? Maybe, but not sure, IDK). Then he was going out and having fantastic matches with Randy Orton, Mark Henry, JBL, Finlay, RVD, etc... Was he worker of the year that year? I don't really think so, as we had guys like Finlay & Benoit setting the world completely on fire, but you could certainly make a case for Rey being that guy.
> 
> For the record; Rey is my WWE WOTY in 2009 & MAAAYYYYBE 2010. MAYBE. DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT ONE, NOT SURE.





Hohenheim of Light said:


> 2006 Rumble was all Game. Mysterio was just sort of there.


Was literally about to say the same thing, but he already said it for me. Triple's performance is outstanding, so much bumping and constant involvement in something. Rey on the other hand, while he does his moments to shine, is laying down quite a bit. Still love the majority of the match, nothing seemed to happen in the middle portion though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Almost done with this DDP review project. Are there any sleeper television/tag matches that are worth a watch? I've seen all of his PPV matches and most of his significant television matches, but I may have overlooked something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Almost done with this DDP review project. Are there any sleeper television/tag matches that are worth a watch? I've seen all of his PPV matches and most of his significant television matches, but I may have overlooked something.


Would love to read some ratings when your done, I need to see more DDP


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> Edit 3: The Mania match that never was...


How was that NWO Rock/Taker bout in 2002? Only one I haven't seen. Even though I like both, I am not really a fan of their matches together. I think a 06/07 Taker vs 02 Rock would have been pretty cool though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> How was that NWO Rock/Taker bout in 2002? Only one I haven't seen. Even though I like both, I am not really a fan of their matches together. I think a 06/07 Taker vs 02 Rock would have been pretty cool though.


 I didn't like the NWO match. In fact, I never really liked any of Rock/Taker matches. The NWO was too slow and the ending wasn't good either. Their best match is probably in RAW 2000. The problem with them is that they were never really involved in a serious program and their feuds usually lasted for one month. Not to mention Taker was dealing with injuries. At least we saw a classic triple threat involving Taker and Rock though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

^^ Yeah, ditto to what Oliver said. You want Taker/Rock, best bet is that Vengeance '02 triple threat, which in my book is fucking awesome


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> For the record; Rey is my WWE WOTY in 2009 & MAAAYYYYBE 2010. MAYBE. DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT ONE, NOT SURE.


I need to watch as Rey as I did Christian, but I'd have Christian > Rey in 2009. In 2010 WWE I don't think anybody comes close to Rey. 2010 could be my favourite Rey year because of the ridiculous consistency + the variety of opponents. 

WWE WOTY:

03: Uh, Eddie? Lesnar?
04: Eddie or Benoit.
05: Eddie
06: Finlay
07: Cena, but I think Finlay's a lot closer than I used to think. Could be him.
08: Maaaan I was blown away by the ECW shit and I suspect there's obviously more of it. Probably Finlay or Matt Hardy.
09: Christian
10: Rey
11: Henry
12: Sheamus or Danielson
13: From what I've watched, Cesaro


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> How was that NWO Rock/Taker bout in 2002? Only one I haven't seen. Even though I like both, I am not really a fan of their matches together. I think a 06/07 Taker vs 02 Rock would have been pretty cool though.


I have it at ***1/2. Great match and the best (singles) Taker/Rock match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I need to watch as Rey as I did Christian, but I'd have Christian > Rey in 2009. In 2010 WWE I don't think anybody comes close to Rey. 2010 could be my favourite Rey year because of the ridiculous consistency + the variety of opponents.
> 
> WWE WOTY:
> 
> ...


I can get on board with this list. Punk mention in 2012 is probably necessary. I'm drawing a blank on most of 08. Jericho for me, probably.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Punk'd be #3 for 2012, yeah.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jericho's stuff w/HBK in 2008 is enough to convince me he was WOTY that year. Idk what else he did but it may not matter. Loved his stuff w/Rey in 09 as well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/Jericho feud didn't hold up last year (this year? IDR). I only *really* like GAB, and Judgment Day was solid. Rest of Jericho's 2008 was really facing Cena, Batista, Jeff Hardy and Yoomanga I think.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You didn't like the ladder match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOTY since 03:
2003 - Lesnar
2004 - Benoit
2005 - Eddie, Orton, Taker are all contenders here (kinda hard to pick just one)
2006 - Rey, Benoit, Finlay (don't know who to pick here either)
2007 - Cena
2008 - Jericho
2009 - No idea because I need to watch the whole thing
2010 - Don't remember much from here at all
2011 - Orton
2012 - Sheamus 



The Beast Incarnate said:


> You did *NOT* give the Bash match three stars.
> 
> I refuse to believe that I just saw that with my two eyes, such a BAD match.


Haha, that's exactly what I did. Thought I was in for a nightmare and it turned out not to be very bad after all. Them pulling a Lesnar/Angle on the first two falls was just plain idiotic but in the final fall, I didn't think it was bad. Slow but I actually enjoyed it and it went by a lot faster than most slow matches do. And Legacy's interference in the end was comical because I always laugh at "pack of dogs" attacks.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watching Night of Champions 2009. So far, it's a decent show with a solid opener (Jerishow's debut) and an okay ECW title match between Christian and Dreamer. Punk also cut a promo blaming parents for letting their children cheer Jeff Hardy (I miss 2009 Punk).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Wwe WOTY: 

03: Kane
04: Benoit
05: Orton	or Taker
06: Edge
07: Cena
08: Jericho or Edge (VERY CLOSE)
09: Orton
10: Mysterio
11: Punk
12: Cena
13: So far ? No idea


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

03: Lesnar
04: Benoit, Eddie is a close second.
05: Guerrero
06: Finlay 
07: Cena
08: Jericho, I think.
09: Christian, Mysterio not far behind. It might be a toss up actually.
10: Mysterio
11: idk maybe Christian. Punk, Henry and Orton had great years too.
12: Punk. Shout out to Sheamus.
13: Punk so far I guess. Or SHIELD.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

WWE's best worker of each year? I'd say...

2003: Lesnar.
2004: Benoit. 
2005: Eddie.
2006: Finlay.
2007: Cena.
2008: Jericho.
2009: Christian.
2010: Mysterio.
2011: Orton.
2012: Punk.
2013: Bryan.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

im happy to hear all the feedback from you guys, I took a break in 06 and 09 so i really could give my answer

so for this year its Im going to shock many and go with ziggler

series with del rio
vs shemaus on main event
series with y2j
bryan matches

EDIT: @ TLK im not to fond of the ladder match as well, the matches yeah listed blow that one out of the water for me. Not a big ladder guy and i think shawn/razor and y2j/benoit are much better/ The NM 08 ladder get a lot of praise on here, I saw someone throw ***** at it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2003 - Undertaker off the top of my head. but if I took the time to document things then Eddie, Mysterio & Brock could all tie.

2004 - Benoit

2005 - Eddie

2006 - Finlay

2007 - Cena

2008 - Matt Hardy & Chris Jericho

2009 - Christian

2010 - Triple M's: Mysterio, Masters, & McIntyre

2011 - Mark Henry

2012 - Punker, Danielson, & Sheamus

2013 - Shield collectively.

Sometimes I can't help myself and had to settle with ties. Especially in 2012. God damn those three were on point week in and week out. It's insanity.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

watched a few matches last night off the same set.

mysterio/kidman vs benoit/malenko and saturn/raven vs mysterio/kidman


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All up on that '99 swag. Thank all that is grand for those lads at the time.

First Blood steel cage matches were plaguing main event pictures but luckily before that crap you had those wonderful tag team matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> You didn't like the ladder match?


Nah I thought it was a bit of a mess. Tried to find whatever I actually said about it, but it's hard to do when I have no idea when I watched it or if I even mentioned watching it again. 


EDIT - I like how the Hogan/Flair first blood cage ends in pinfall. :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

dat wcw booking


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You think that's bad? You should see the post I made about the match being the ultimate wrestlecrap mindfuck in TTT thread earlier this year. I'm gonna find it.

It's like what in the holy fuck were they thinking as the match was going down? You can tell by the tone of Schiavone's voice that he's like "this company is dead"


----------



## Tim Legend (Jun 27, 2006)

Orton & sheamus & Alberto vs Show & Henry & Swagger from SD was a fun match all the way through. Only real complaint was Henry is hardly in it... Oh well solid None the less 

***1/4


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

anyone have ratings for kidman/mysterio from string stampeded 99? or was it slamboree?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was Spring Stampede. 

It's ok. Both got injured during the match so it hurt the pacing quite a bit. It's plenty watchable. Only not NEARLY as strong as it could have been.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

whos everyones favourite cruiserweight from WCW?

also CODY reply to me on facebook chat and stop ignoring me


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOW that's a tough pick. I would say La Parka off the top of my head but clearly there are the big deals in Eddie & Mysterio along with the other mainstays during the years in Ultimo Dragon & Super Calo. Plus BLITZKRIEG.

I don't try to. I'm hardly on Facebook so by the time I see you message me it's days later once I log back on.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> whos everyones favourite cruiserweight from WCW?
> 
> also CODY reply to me on facebook chat and stop ignoring me


It's Rey by a mile, but I've always really loved Psychosis because of his bumping and La Parka because of his gimmick.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I think Kidman was my favorite Cruiserweight. I also loved Eddie, Juventud, Psychosis and Malenko amongst others. Blitzkreig was awesome as well in the brief time he was around.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

LOVE Blitzkreig. Love Cruiserweight, so many classics right there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Norman Smiley's dip into the cruiserweight ranks (kind of) ruled too.

Tons of gems on Saturday Night & Thunder b/c of all these cats. '97 legit had a lucha tag on it weekly. Plus one hell of a good sub-6 minute Eddie/Mysterio forgotten match on the go home show before Starrcade.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Eddie/Mysterio was always great. I know it gets mixed reactions on here, but I pretty much loved all there matches. Eddie as the crazy heel was perfect.






GOAT.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I loved Juventud and Malenko when I first got introduced to WCW. Guerrera's moveset was full of so many awesome moves, and Malenko was such a boss in that ring. Loved the "iceman" persona. Psychosis and Kaz Hayashi deserve some recognition as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the only one that seems to not get much love is their Ladder match. Rest is generally well received. Even GAB. Which was a total Eddie show.

I think I love watching the Eddie vs Mysterio Judgment Day hype video more than the match itself. Eddie was TOO great during it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Eddie is the GOAT.

I'm attempting to clean up all the needless threads in the WWE section as you;'ve noticed. I hope you all join me. :vince2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

8*D

I'm in the dark on that comment.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Which one?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Which one?





King Kenny said:


> I'm attempting to clean up all the needless threads in the WWE section as you;'ve noticed. I hope you all join me. :vince2


^^^^

As Ultramantis Black says - Tell me more!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Well I just made a "Ask a question about WWE" thread - to try and stop the multiple threads on the same topic/or repeated threads on the same topic. Dicussion will hopefully flow like it does in this thread. I'm thinking about posting another thread but waiting on confirmation by Clique. 

Also, I posted a thread in the classic wrestling section regarding 1986-1990 MOTYC/discussion thread.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Malenko, because he's FUCKING MALENKO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Well I just made a "Ask a question about WWE" thread - to try and stop the multiple threads on the same topic/or repeated threads on the same topic. Dicussion will hopefully flow like it does in this thread. I'm thinking about posting another thread but waiting on confirmation by Clique.
> 
> Also, I posted a thread in the classic wrestling section regarding 1986-1990 MOTYC/discussion thread.


:clap

If it stops pointless circulation through the WWE sections then that's a heck of a coup you set up.

Going to the classic wrestling section right now to view the other thread.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

omg cody you're back. 

that ask a question thread currently has a lot of views, no replies. i've seen like 10+ threads in ciruclation today that could all go in that one thread. i made a thread in suggestions + help anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If a staff member see it perhaps some things will be merged. All a process I suppose.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I already asked Clique. He suggested to make the suggestion thread. Hopefully it goes ahead.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Extreme Rules on Sunday. I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah Extreme Rules should be a good show. There isn't a single "bad" match on the card. Every match has the potential to be something decent. Though I'm not expecting any MOTYCs.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> (Y)
> 
> Extreme Rules on Sunday. I'm looking forward to it.


As am I. (Y)

Hoping that the tornado tag is shades of A-Ry/Mysterio vs Miz/Swagger.

Only match I'm not too invested is Show/Orton, but with the extreme rules stip it might spice it up a bit.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> (Y)
> 
> Extreme Rules on Sunday. I'm looking forward to it.


Should be good. What time is it on here in Australia? I have no idea.

Also Brye do you like my idea/suggestion at all?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ambrose vs Kofi & Show vs Orton are the only ones I could see being iffy on paper. I'm confident in both the performers who have been consistent (Ambrose & Show) that they can make the matches work. Agreed with Brye on the Extreme Rules stips adding something that can also aid Show in his match vs Orton. Not to mention Orton might turn it up with the gimmick added. He did vs Kane last year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Ambrose will make the match interesting just being there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kofi is the ultimate dreg. That's the drawback.

Ideally that match should be short. It would be best for both.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't like how people completely neglect Kofi. He is a good worker in his own right. If anything, he is going to play a major role in the match if it's going to be any good with Ambrose doing what he needs to do.

For the record, I am a Shield fan.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> Should be good. What time is it on here in Australia? I have no idea.
> 
> Also Brye do you like my idea/suggestion at all?


Just logged on but I'll give it a look. Is it in this thread?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Kofi is not that good a worker imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heavens no he isn't.

At best he's a solid hand in tag matches. Outside of that, he's downright worthless. He isn't a good high flyer nor a good babyface. He offers nothing to most matches he's in. That's a very poor track record for someone who should be adding something very minimal - at least - to his matches.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Brye said:


> Just logged on but I'll give it a look. Is it in this thread?


Nah, well yeah. But I made the actual full suggestion in suggestions/help forum.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kofi is in limbo in every way possible. Decent worker but nothing amazing. Matches are always just there. They're not bad, but they're never anything to write home about, other than the Cesaro one recently. And no change in character even really doesn't help.

Edit: Will give it a look right now. (Y)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Kofi should turn heel. That solves most peoples problems. :side:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Looks like I'm the only Kofi fan here.

There's a reason why he was chosen to put over Ambrose. And no, it's not because there was no one else, but it's because he's good at making people look good.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't think thats entirely true.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope. It's b/c he's a safe bet for a face & WWE isn't interested in ever changing it up. Even for a situation of being a hand off guy.

WWE could have easily given it to Justin Gabriel and things would be the same. Only with the chance of having the PPV match being a lot stronger.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fandango said:


> Looks like I'm the only Kofi fan here.
> 
> There's a reason why he was chosen to put over Ambrose. And no, it's not because there was no one else, but it's because he's good at making people look good.


I can agree with that. Dude is a pretty good seller too. Plus the general crowd loves him so that helps get the heel over. It's the way that they constantly go from jobbing to giving a midcard title that confuses/deflates people trying to follow him.

Posted in the thread, Kenny.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The thing I like about Kofi so much is that he's always good for a solid match whenever he's competing. I think a lot of the dislike he gets around here is due to the fact that he's "stale".

I agree with that to an extent because there's only so many times you can watch Kofi/Ziggler before you think the shtick is getting old, but they are still good matches for what they're worth - throwaway filler matches for weekly shows.

Not to mention he brings the FUN factor to his matches because the crowd is always into him, he gets his usual high flying spots in, and always has DAT intensity. 

Very underrated worker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The guy can't even do "high flying" spots well. Coupled in with the fact that he is a bad seller & has one honest to goodness non-springboard move in his arsenal. :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks Brye, I replied to you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do people still get wrestler & worker mixed up?

b/c at this rate Dolph Ziggler is going to be a "great" worker next.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Langster's ass is disturbing. I can't take any of his matches seriously with that tub of fat dangling off his buttocks area. Carry on, .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Going to watch Kofi/Jericho NOC 08 :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm going to plug my Monday Night Wars thread in here too. 

Go check it out~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wished I had NOC '08. In the mood for the WWE, World, & ECW Championship matches. I remember when some said Kane vs Show vs Henry sucked, then I watched it, and loved it. 8*D


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Wished I had NOC '08. In the mood for the WWE, World, & ECW Championship matches. I remember when some said Kane vs Show vs Henry sucked, then I watched it, and loved it. 8*D


Plus it has KATIE LEA BURCHILL :mark:

And I mark for TED JR's debut!


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I have quite a few ideas as you can see. Hope they work.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Matt Hardy/Taker Superstars 2009? Thoughts?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> I have quite a few ideas as you can see. Hope they work.


Just posted in your 80's thread. (Y)



GOATAntics said:


> Matt Hardy/Taker Superstars 2009? Thoughts?


I recall watching it when it happened. But I can't really remember much.  Don't think it was bad though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Plus it has KATIE LEA BURCHILL :mark:
> 
> And I mark for TED JR's debut!


YES

Remember Ted's awesome promo(s) on RAW leading up to that? You'd think that guy would've had a future.



GOATAntics said:


> Matt Hardy/Taker Superstars 2009? Thoughts?


FUN.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> YES
> 
> Remember Ted's awesome promo(s) on RAW leading up to that? You'd think that guy would've had a future.
> 
> ...


I remember those. Was on that bandwagon pretty quickly. Last glimmer of hope I had for Ted died after the mini-feud with Cody at NOC '11. He was getting decent pops too.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

(Y)

I may post a colleseum video appreication thread soon too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If your cleaning up the WWE thread, sort that SuperSlamGranny out lol.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Evolution, Croft or 'liner hopefully will.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Austin316GOAT needs cleaning up. :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Annoying posters are one thing, annoying constant thread starters are another.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I think SuperSlamGranny is afender, probably wrong though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Trying to figure out a couple of Sting/Luger tag matches, can anyone identify these:

Sting/Luger vs Road Warriors vs Harlem Heat
Harlem Heat vs Sting & Lex Luger
Harlem Heat vs Steiner Brothers vs Sting/Luger


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

c'mon, this guy is a master of his craft.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/810202-dominatrix-bdsm-s-m-wwe.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/810138-smelliest-wrestlers.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/810338-wwe-wrestlers-fetishes.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-way-defeat-undertaker-wrestle-mania-xxx.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/808114-wrestlers-tights-were-your-parents-favorites.html


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Trying to figure out a couple of Sting/Luger tag matches, can anyone identify these:
> 
> Sting/Luger vs Road Warriors vs Harlem Heat - no idea on this.
> Harlem Heat vs Sting & Lex Luger - this happened quite a few times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsJUIemkMzU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvBpRXpjUn0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X66rBP75s7Y
> Harlem Heat vs Steiner Brothers vs Sting/Luger -Nitro 6/24/96 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3s6oa_sting-lex-luger-vs-harlem-heat-vs-s_sport#.UZdG87UziSo


edited~


AW SHIT, double post. I think I meant to edit it in. :$


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm about to watch the TLC match with The Shield vs. Team Hell No with my dad. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> edited~
> 
> 
> AW SHIT, double post. I think I meant to edit it in. :$


Thanks mate, think that other Triple Threat was on Nitro too in 1996 come to think of it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

zep, if you want a 1996 nitro torrent, you might find it by downloading an ep from there. let me know.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I remember those. Was on that bandwagon pretty quickly. Last glimmer of hope I had for Ted died after the mini-feud with Cody at NOC '11. He was getting decent pops too.


He did. It wasn't much, yet it was something. Their own fault for handling his face turn so poorly. He's back now or at least he worked last week's Superstars and won. Dunno if that means he'll stick around as a C-Level babyface. I'd welcome it. A fresh face for Superstars is needed. 

If I see one more Usos vs Colons or Prime Time Players match I'm going to lose my mind.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Don't watch it then


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Six pack challenge involving Kofi Kingston, MVP, The Miz, Carlito, Jack Swagger and Primo for the US title. ***1/4 Fun match, every wrestler in the match had the chance to show off their moveset. Liked how Carlito and Primo were against each other in the early parts of the match and then were forced to help one another but only for Carlito to 'stab' his brother in the back. 

So far I'm enjoying Night of Champions 2009.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Primo looked like such a geek when that happened :lmao

Alright show as a whole. Only matches I really got into were the last two. Mysterio vs Ziggler being really good. If it wasn't for Christian, Mysterio's work would have been untouchable that year.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Anyone think the Shield angle is getting a bit tedious? I enjoy it because I enjoy the wrestlers but thinking about it, we don't really know what their endgame is or what they mean by justice.

A bunch of casual fans I know are sick of the Shield so much so that they've started to change the channel when they see a match involving them. Their complaint? "We know nobody can beat them anyway. What's the point?" Perhaps giving them a sensible motive to further the angle could solve this problem.

Opinions?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think after Sunday when they're champions a promo could be in order to reveal or dive deeper into what their plans have been. Perhaps their brand of Justice was only solely for them and no one else. Implying they did everything right & now it finally led them to being champions in the top company in the world. Momentary vindication with the possibility of wanting more.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Anyone think the Shield angle is getting a bit tedious? I enjoy it because I enjoy the wrestlers but thinking about it, we don't really know what their endgame is or what they mean by justice.
> 
> A bunch of casual fans I know are sick of the Shield so much so that they've started to change the channel when they see a match involving them. Their complaint? "We know nobody can beat them anyway. What's the point?" Perhaps giving them a sensible motive to further the angle could solve this problem.
> 
> Opinions?


my opinion is that they're retarded. seriously, they've had like 6 matches. this is the one time in years the wwe is actually taking their time with an angle and people are going to change the channel to something being done correctly? if more storylines went like this we could actually have more stars that rise instead of wrestlers that fizzle out after a couple weeks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why I don't take casual's opinions into consideration. Well worked out heels dominate = casual fan thinks it is boring.

You won't get much sense here other than the fan watching wanting to see their favorite babyface get a nice win & leave them satisfied. It's a generalization, I get that. But so is the term "casual fan." It actually does have a meaning with facts behind it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I would imagine people should be tuning in to see if the Shield WILL be beat, not saying hey, these guys haven't lost yet so they won't now. Goobers...



GOATAntics said:


> Langster's ass is disturbing. I can't take any of his matches seriously with that tub of fat dangling off his buttocks area. Carry on, .


Check out those titties too. (Y)



Fandango said:


> Going to watch Kofi/Jericho NOC 08 :mark:


Jericho has managed to give Kofi almost all of the best matches in his career, completely forgot about this one. Check out their RAW match in... October of 2009? Somethin like that. It's good too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho does have the best track record in singles matches vs Kofi. Dunno how many of them hold up yet off the top of my head all their matches were watchable. The night after Bragging Rights '09 being the one that was honestly good. 

I like to think it remains that way. I've gone back and watched so many Kofi matches only to find he's been terrible in all of them. It's why I can hardly say a positive thing about him. To think, I used to really like him too. Wonder why I didn't see it the first time around.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Jericho brings the best out of most people.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm watching Randy Orton's DVD Documentary, "Evolution of a Predator" once again. It's a great documentary, in my opinion.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smackdown this week was once again okay and superior to Raw. Cesaro/Jericho is a solid ★★★ match and the Orton/ADR/Sheamus vs Show/Henry/Swagger main event was also good at around ★★½. While Raw turns me off completely, Smackdown is there every week giving out at least a decent match or two.

I'm really anticipating Extreme Rules now. Even the Del Rio/Swagger match has caught my interest a little bit now. Will even check out Flair/Funk I Quit match to prepare myself. I've been wishing for Show/Orton on PPV for quite a while and with the ER stipulation, it's almost guaranteed to succeed. And for the rest... I'm definitely interested in the LMS and steel cage matches as well as the strap match. Can't say I care about the rest, though. Lost interest in Shield a while ago.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Looking forward to Extreme Rules reviews so I can decide whether to watch or not.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I don't understand how casuals can be sick of The Shield. They have been around for nearly six months but still seem fresh due to them not wrestling a lot. They wrestle more now but they just had their first singles match about a month ago. Reigns still hasn't had a singles match and Rollins has had one. Not to mention all of their matches are enjoyable.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

can someone give me a list of shield matches on raw since ec, I always miss them because I have raw on in the background muted and of course the shield matches always come on when I don't pay attention


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Dark Church said:


> I don't understand how casuals can be sick of The Shield. They have been around for nearly six months but still seem fresh due to them not wrestling a lot. They wrestle more now but they just had their first singles match about a month ago. Reigns still hasn't had a singles match and Rollins has had one. Not to mention all of their matches are enjoyable.


"They keep finding excuses to let them win" was spoken in the conversation.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, the Shield seems to have heat akin to JBL's 2004 run as WWE Champion where no matter what, there was always some way that he would escape with the Title. This just means that whenever The Shield does indeed lose by pinfall or submission, it's going to be HUGE for whoever accomplishes it (even though it's probably going to be Cena or HHH in some fashion).

About to watch BIG SHOW VS BROCK LESNAR IN A STRETCHER MATCH AKA one of my favorite matches ever, let's see how it holds up as it would not surprise me at all to have it as my MOTY for 2003.

EDIT: Just finished watching the Stretcher match, it's still awesome as fuck. It's probably my favorite match from the entire year, but there's still like five matches at this point (Rock-Austin, HBK-Jericho, Brock-Kurt Ironman, Brock-Benoit, Taker-Kurt) that I'd have over it with Brock-Benoit being my current 2003 MOTY as it stands. Only three more Brock matches from 2003 left to watch to complete my TV/PPV watchings before going back to 2002 and finishing the TV matches there + the Eddie & Bobcore matches in 2004. Interested in seeing how the Vengeance triple threat and Summerslam match do in comparison to the other outstanding matches in 2003. Smackdown fucking RULED that year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> I'm watching Randy Orton's DVD Documentary, "Evolution of a Predator" once again. It's a great documentary, in my opinion.


Not a fan of it personally. They skip A LOT when it comes to his actual _wrestling _career and just kinda talk about whatever they want. I enjoyed the Marine story but I wish they got a little darker and deeper into it.



redskins25 said:


> can someone give me a list of shield matches on raw since ec, I always miss them because I have raw on in the background muted and of course the shield matches always come on when I don't pay attention


http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/dean-ambrose-3069.html


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Finlay/Drew match back in 2009 was short and intense, Just how I like em'. Almost rivals Hardy/Edge in the goodness in a short time department.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8ce4r_rvd-vs-hardcore-holly-extreme-rules_sport#.UZe3z7U2iKI

Damn, what an awesome match! That back cut is just brutal.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just watched Edge, Jericho, and Chris Benoit vs Ric Flair, Randy Orton, and Batista from RAW 6/14/04. Haven't seen that match in a while and I thought i'd check it out. Great match. 

Rating: ★★★3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I saw a Drew/Finlay match live in 09 for a SD taping. Match was fairly dull from what I remember... and they had to re-shoot the beatdown at the end (Drew attacked Finlay with his Sheleighly) and it took FOREVER and completely killed the crowd lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the best _Sting/Rude_ match? There is one i cant stand but cannot remember where from lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember one Sting/Rude television match on Pro that was really good. Other than that, I was never a big fan of their matches. Heck, I always thought of Rick Rude to be vastly overrated.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't recall any Sting/Rude matches being good. Sting sucks, so yeah, not much chance of the matches being great .


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Any real ecw or hardcore type matched worth watching?

How about some old WWF,nwa,awa classics?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, fuck Sting.

Last Sting match I recall liking happened in 1999.

BLACK & WHITE STING Vs DDP on Nitro.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah, fuck Sting.
> 
> Last Sting match I recall liking happened in 1999.
> 
> BLACK & WHITE STING Vs DDP on Nitro.





Big Z said:


> Don't recall any Sting/Rude matches being good. Sting sucks, so yeah, not much chance of the matches being great .












Makes me sad :no:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sting sucking so much yet being a big star all these years makes me sad .

Sting actually had a good match since 1999 too btw! His TV match with Roode last year was great. I *think* it was a lumberjack match or something. Ended shitty cos they were building to a PPV match I think or something. But yeah. His best match in 13 years .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Didn't know Sting hate existed, lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sting definitely had some great matches during his early surfer days. No question about it, he is a much better top face wrestler for a major company than most others. Crow Sting however, was a broken man that only had good matches if :ddp was involved in them. Then again, the story of WCW's main event scene was that everybody had a terrible match unless if they were facing DDP.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

after watching sd ec12 a couple of days ago I got to think about khali, has there ever been a worst wrestler ?
so I checked out what many consider his best match against taker in a 06 lms on smackdown 
****
*a Godly peformance by taker to get that out of the big lump
* ppl actually say cena's selling is bad - hes dolph ziggler compared to khail


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Begs the question (and I didn't watch that much WCW): DDP's best matches?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Khali is so bad he makes Miz look like a HOF wrestler. How he has been employed for seven years baffles me.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Oh there's so many to list. But I personally loved this one:






Rare gem.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Khali is so bad he makes Miz look like a HOF wrestler. How he has been employed for seven years baffles me.


 He is pretty marketable in India.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

His match with Vader, at super brawl 3, was fucking awesome.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I watched disc 2 of the WM XXIX Blu-ray. I always like to watch features first and then the show/movie itself.

I always enjoy watching the Hall of Fame ceremony. It's usually like reading a good book, because the inductors and the inductees usually tell such vivid, unknown stories, and there's always great moments, too. 

The 2013 class had an amazing lineup. It was so big that the FIRST inductee was Mick Foley.

Some of the amazing moments of the night include:

-Mick Foley elbow-dropping Chris Jericho on the stage and CM Punk counting to the three.
-Trish Stratus making a joke about hiding the "F" on her "WWF" pen because she "didn't want to piss off the Pandas."
-Booker T gave a very heartfelt speech.
-Bob Backlund giving an utterly insane, albeit inspirational, speech and messing with Triple H.
-When Arnold Schwarzanegger acknowledged the great crowd, he then jokingly said "where were you when my movie came out in January?"

I loved how excited the inductors were, and the inductees were really excited, too. This was a great class, and a great show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Some other rare gems from DDP that barely missed the cut on my top 20 list:














He also had some real good matches with the likes of Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Buff Bagwell, and Lex Luger, all of whom were downright terrible wrestlers in the late 90s. DDP was a true miracle worker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Some other rare gems from DDP that barely missed the cut on my top 20 list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The man still is a miracle worker (just in a different way) .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is flair vs savage from starrcade worth it ?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Dark Church said:


> Khali is so bad he makes Miz look like a HOF wrestler. How he has been employed for seven years baffles me.


People are still asking this question? Really?


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Fandango, looking forward to Fandango/Jericho at ER?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Of course. I wish they had announced a stipulation beforehand. Though I'm sure there will be one added during the show by the fans using the WWE App. 

And hopefully a Fandango win as well. However, I could take a loss if it meant that Summer Rae cost him the match and he ditches her forever.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm fairly sure Jericho will win to get revenge on Fandango for getting the fluke win over him at Mania. Though, I really couldn't care less about the match. And I don't really care for most of the Extreme Rules PPV card to be honest. I doubt I'll even bother to watch the PPV tomorrow.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched del rio/ bryan from aug 11 ****1/4
del rio best match in wwe imo
i miss this dbryan


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Thoughts on Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell? Been meaning to watch it for some time now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My favorite match ever.

Brutality at it's finest and one of the greatest performances of Triple H's career. The second greatest cell match ever next to the original and Batista's greatest match also. I would go into a big rant about it but I'm lazy as fuck :lol.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

One of the top three cell matches IMO. Love it. Barbed wire steel chair! :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Fandango said:


> Thoughts on Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell? Been meaning to watch it for some time now.




Top 5 HIAC match IMO. By far Batistas best match in his career. ****1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Batista/HHH... third best Cell match ever, HHH's second best match ever and Batista's second best match ever. Classic.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Best Hell in a Cell match for me. Batista's best match too and *****3/4* from me.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Fandango said:


> Thoughts on Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell? Been meaning to watch it for some time now.


Top 3 cell match ever for me, Batista's best match ever and a possibly top 3 for the game. Great brutality, great performance by both men and such an easy match to sit through. ***** 1/2* for me.

Like AlienBountyHunter said Barbed wire steel chair :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fandango said:


> Thoughts on Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell? Been meaning to watch it for some time now.


One of the best Hell in a Cell matches of all time that solidified Batista as a top star. ★★★★1/4.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WHAT'S WITH THE STING HATE!? He smokes people like HHH and Jericho.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Fandango said:


> Thoughts on Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell? Been meaning to watch it for some time now.


Thought it was a very great, near ★★★★★ match. Arguably the best match of 2005, arguably a top five Hell in a Cell match in history, arguably Batista's best match of his career. The brutality, the spots, the weapons, the storytelling, etc. Certainly a must-see, you should check it out asap.



Yeah1993 said:


> WHAT'S WITH THE STING HATE!? He smokes people like HHH and Jericho.


Well, isn't that oddest thing? Never knew the Sting hate existed.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Triple H vs. Batista*
_Vengeance 2005 - Hell in a Cell_​
So after seeing that the general consensus of this match was that it was simply awesome, I decided to watch it immediately. Throw another vote up for it being a fucking great match because it is. Jim Ross was at his best during this match. Even before it started he advised the viewers that it was going to get ugly, and ugly it did get. 

The Hell in a Cell stipulation really gets hindered in the PG Era because you can't blade anymore and now it has its own pay-per-view which is an extremely cheap way to sell the show when the match should only be used on special occasions like this. Batista and Triple H were feuded for months before this, stemming from when Batista won the Royal Rumble and had his eyes set on Triple H's World Heavyweight title. It made things interesting because they were both still in Evolution. The story going into this match was that this was going to be the blowoff, no more Batista vs. Triple H after this. It was the be-all-end-all.

There was a unique set of TOYS (JBL reference) in this match. Usually you get to see a chair, tables, ladders, weapons of the norm. But here we got to see a steel chain, a BARBED WIRE STEEL CHAIR, and the base of the steel steps. Oh, and the great equalizer, THE SLEDGEHAMMER, of course.

Both competitors used the cell to its fullest extent. You saw their faces getting grinded up against the steel cage, ripping the flesh off their mugs. Spinebusters, being thrown into it like a sack of potatoes, and more. The mark in me HATES Hell in a Cell matches that don't end up on top of the cell, but this one didn't need anyone breaking the door and going up top because everything that needed to be done was done inside. It was two guys that were the best of friends only a mere months ago, and now the bitterest of rivals who wanted to destroy each other. 

Triple H gets a bad rep of "burying" other superstars, but he was the one that made Batista into a star and this was the match that defined Batista's career at that point. A clean win over Triple H is a huge accomplishment on it's own, but a clean win over Triple H inside the most brutal match type in the WWE is just something else. 

I'm not sure where this match would rank in terms of Hell in a Cell matches because there have been A LOT of great ones, but this was awesome and it would definitely be in my top 5, maybe even top 3. All in all, a brutal match that showed what Hell in a Cell truly SHOULD be. HELL in a CELL.

*Rating: ****1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Best Hell in a Cell match for me. Batista's best match too and *****3/4* from me.


Pretty much all I can say.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Fandango said:


> Thoughts on Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell? Been meaning to watch it for some time now.


Love the match. Here's my review for it from a month back or so. Star rating at the bottom. 



Spoiler: Long ass review of HIAC



Triple H vs. Batista - World Heavyweight Championship

Vengeance 2005


The third match in this trilogy of matches between the Game and Batista is contested inside Hell in a Cell, or as JR calls it, “The Devil’s Duplex”. Triple H is great at showing how even he can be a bit reticent about stepping inside the demonic structure, as he stares up at it then gives Flair an embrace before going in. Special note - to this point, Triple H has not lost a one on one HIAC match, beating Cactus Jack, Kevin Nash, Chris Jericho, and Shawn Michaels.

Both guys get in some offense early, with Triple H emerging as the more dominant man just a few minutes in. The Game wastes no time in bringing in weapons, as he pulls out a chain from a toolbox and immediately commences the “government mule” whipping. It’s one thing to use a belt, but damn that chain looks painful. Batista takes control and returns the favor, whipping the Game with that chain. Trips’ selling of the chain-whipping is fantastic. The Game also enters this match searching for his 11th world title win.

When the callback spot to the first HIAC with Batista ramming Triple H’s back in the ring post and the cell, and back and forth. Triple H did the same callback spot the year before with Shawn Michaels. The Game is busted wide open and though he’s out of it, catches Batista coming with a big time Double A spinebuster. Then Triple H goes and pulls out the chair WRAPPED IN BARBED WIRE. He gets in one shot, which is enough to make your hair stand on edge. The chain whipping was painful enough to watch, but that barbed wire-steel chair is just nasty. The shot to the Game’s face is just sick. Game’s selling is GOAT, of course. Batista is firmly in control now, and rakes that steel chair across the Game’s face. It should be noted that Jim Ross’ commentary is nothing short of amazing. Selling the beatings, and the demonic nature of this match like none other. 

I always enjoy seeing one of the competitors using the other as a lawn dart, and Batista doesn’t fail me here. Game gets shot in the cell walls. The barbed wire-steel chair continues to be a factor, as Batista counters a Pedigree attempt but slams the Game on it instead. 

The Animal comes back with the steel chain, but Triple H drills Batista with a DDT right on the chair wrapped in barbed wire. This puts the Game is firmly in control, as lets the cell “get itself some”. The Game goes in and pulls out the sledgehammer. Batista catches him coming in and the two exchange blows. Batista looks for the Batista Bomb, but the Game counters into a backbody drop. Triple H drills the Animal with a hammer shot to the head, but Batista manages to kick out at 2. The Game is out on his feet, comes in and raises the hammer ready to strike, but Batista hits a low blow, allowing a moment to recover. As the Game tries to recoup, the Animal gets the sledgehammer and comes at Triple H at full speed, but the Game has wrapped the chain around his fist and drills Batista in the head. Batista again, however, manages to kick out at 2. 

Triple H comes off the tope rope with the chain, but Batista is waiting an hits the sledgehammer right to the Game’s neck, and it does look like he’s convulsing. Great selling here, too. Batista then just starts unloading on Triple H with right hands. The Animal is, of course, firmly back in control. He brings the steel steps in (after introducing them to the Game’s head on the outside) and bounces Triple H’s head off the steel several times. MORE GOAT SELLING. Batista signals that the end is near, however the Game foils a Batista Bomb attempt with a low blow, and comes right in and sticks the Pedigree. After the Animal manages to kick out at 2. Triple H goes for a Pedigree on the steps, however Batista counters into a vicious looking spinebuster on the steps. Good God that hurt me just watching. Batista comes in and gets the Game up for a Batista Bomb, but Triple H has grabbed the sledgehammer before going up, and just as he raises the hammer up, Batista drills his power bomb and gets the 1-2-3. 

Holy shit. So much painful action here, and great storytelling from both guys. Definitely the second greatest HIAC match, behind only HBK/Taker. ****1/2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Love the match. Here's my review for it from a month back or so. Star rating at the bottom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice review. Looks like we have the same rating.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As far as ratings go, I've got it at ****1/2 as well. Only cell matches I have above it are Taker/HBK and Taker/Lesnar. Used to have Taker/Edge above it until recent re-watches of both made me swap them around. The match, combined with the rest of the feud made Batista, and put him as the number 1 guy in the company from Mania till a little after he moved to SD and Cena took the mantle. But had they kept Batista on Raw and kept wanting to push him as the number 1 guy, he would've been no questions asked.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive never seen hhh/batista but after reading the last two pages its awesome (no miz intentions)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Made me remember I need to finish off the HIAC DVD. Since I just bought the EC anthology DVD called "Satan's Prison", it made me remember that they call HIAC the "Devil's Playground". Interesting.

McMahons/Big Show vs DX coming up. Great promo, and a real blood bath from what I remember.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Favorite Mick Foley match? I would go with Cactus Jack Vs HHH, RR 200.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The subject of favorite Foley matches came up not too long ago. I agree that Cactus/HHH from RR 2000 is also my favorite, but I love to pimp Cactus/HHH from Raw 1997, Falls Count Anywhere. Very fun match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

tie between shawn in mindgames and orton in backlash- if I had to choose -backlash


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Begs the question (and I didn't watch that much WCW): DDP's best matches?


vs. Sting (Nitro 4/26/1999)
vs. Goldberg (Halloween Havoc '97)
vs. Chris Benoit (Superbrawl '98)
vs. Chris Benoit vs. Raven (Uncensored '98)
vs. Johnny B. Badd (Superbrawl '96)



Fandango said:


> People are still asking this question? Really?


Really? REALLY? 



redskins25 said:


> just watched del rio/ bryan from aug 11 ****1/4
> del rio best match in wwe imo
> i miss this dbryan


Is the Smackdown match while Del Rio was WWE Champ? If so then WOW you really liked that a lot more than me. haha. High end *** 1/4 I'd say.



Fandango said:


> Thoughts on Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell? Been meaning to watch it for some time now.


**** 3/4. Brutally awesome match. I'll NEVER forget several years ago I reviewed Vengeance '05 in here and gave it that exact rating. People laughed at me. Literally.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> WHAT'S WITH THE STING HATE!? He smokes people like HHH and Jericho.


YES. STING!!!!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@corey i think so, it the one on the best of raw and smackdown 2011, yea I thought it was pretty good and technical wresting and it got good time. Maybe its that im not a big del rio but all his other matches are decent at best and this one stuck out


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the nitro match with sting in 99 is prob ddp best although he has some gems like the ones funnyfaces posted


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Did _xdoomsayers_ just state HBK/Cena was better than Batista/Taker at WM23 and overall MOTN? fpalm.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well.

It IS the overall MOTY AND superior to Taker/Batista .

Watching No Mercy 2005, haven't seen it in a while but the three main matches used to be my favorites.

ROAD WARRIOR HEIDENREICH.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

HBK/Cena was indeed MOTN at Wrestlemania 23.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

GOATAntics said:


> Did _xdoomsayers_ just state HBK/Cena was better than Batista/Taker at WM23 and overall MOTN? fpalm.


I would as well  but honestly wouldn't disagree with anyone having Batista/Taker as MOTN. HBK/Cena is a personal favourite of mine.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yo Sam, watching Extreme Rules tomorrow? How does that ish work in AUSSIELAND anyways?

Watching Bobby Lashley crush Simon Dean :lol.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yo Sam, watching Extreme Rules tomorrow? How does that ish work in AUSSIELAND anyways?
> 
> Watching Bobby Lashley crush Simon Dean :lol.


Yer buddy watching extreme rules tomorrow, looking forward to the shield bringing home the gold :mark: 

It's so horrible PPV starts over here at 10am, I'm barely awake by then


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea goats I actually have cena/hbk at ****3/4 and MOTY and best wwe title match in mania history. Taker/Batista was great as well ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm in NEWFIELAND so it starts at 9:30 PM.

Could be worse, could start at like 2 in the morning like it does for UK folk .

THE BEAST INCARNATE VS THE KING OF KINGS. INNER WARFARE.


----------



## Sharp_Shooter (Mar 12, 2013)

GOATAntics said:


> Did _xdoomsayers_ just state HBK/Cena was better than Batista/Taker at WM23 and overall MOTN? fpalm.


...............................






The Beast Incarnate said:


> Well.
> 
> It IS the overall MOTY AND superior to Taker/Batista .
> 
> ...





Dark Church said:


> HBK/Cena was indeed MOTN at Wrestlemania 23.





shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I would as well  but honestly wouldn't disagree with anyone having Batista/Taker as MOTN. HBK/Cena is a personal favourite of mine.





redskins25 said:


> Yea goats I actually have cena/hbk at ****3/4 and MOTY and best wwe title match in mania history. Taker/Batista was great as well ****1/2


:lol


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I'm in NEWFIELAND so it starts at 9:30 PM.
> 
> Could be worse, could start at like 2 in the morning like it does for UK folk .
> 
> THE BEAST INCARNATE VS THE KING OF KINGS. INNER WARFARE.


If you put it that way I guess I may have it alittle better then the Pommies  

I'm hoping for an all out war between the Game and Bbbbrrrrrrooooocccckkkkkk Lllleeeeesssssnnnnaaaarrrrr!!!!

Also Evan wanted to get your opinion on HHH/Rock Ironman match, watched it last night (thanks again Zep81 for the upload) and thought it was awesome. If I'm not lazy ill post a review of it later. Off the top of my head its a top 3 match for WWE in 2000.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

PPVs start at 5pm for me here in BC, Canada. It's a little bitter sweet because I don't have to wait around all day in anticipation, but it's kind of lame because it's during dinner time and shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BRRRRRRRRRRRRROCK............. LESNAR!

Triple H Vs The Rock from Judgment Day 2000 happens to be IMHO the greatest match in Rocky's career besides MAYBE the Wrestlemania XIX match against Austin. Trips & Rocky just decided to bring it for an hour straight and the result was an all out war with no dragging periods and a memorable finish to boot. Brock Vs Kurt is better by the hairs on its chinny chin chin. If you want a star rating, I had it at ***** 1/2* on the last watch, which was like a year ago.

& Cena Vs HBK is a top 25 match in WWF/WWE history for me no doubt. Think I had it at #8 from 2000-2009, but I could be off by a spot or two on that one.

& at least BC has some credibility as a province, unlike Newfoundland :lol:lol:lol.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Oh god, Sharp_Shitter don't contaminate this part of the forum too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ Sharp_Shitter.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

What are you laughing at, The Bitch Incarnite? Oh wait, I'm WOATAntics. Carry on, .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What's next?

Foreskins25? ShawnMichaelsisGay? The Hardcore Gay Porn Show?

WOAT FAGGOTRY :lol:lol:lol.

I'm going to probably be confined to my bed for the next bajillion years due to screwing up the lockout on my max deadlift today, having to go to the hospital for my FUCKING SPINE. Might as well take up another project alongside 2005 PPV watchings & Brock Lesnar matches as I'm gonna have nothing else to do outside of my normal social life .


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> BRRRRRRRRRRRRROCK............. LESNAR!
> 
> Triple H Vs The Rock from Judgment Day 2000 happens to be IMHO the greatest match in Rocky's career besides MAYBE the Wrestlemania XIX match against Austin. Trips & Rocky just decided to bring it for an hour straight and the result was an all out war with no dragging periods and a memorable finish to boot. Brock Vs Kurt is better by the hairs on its chinny chin chin. If you want a star rating, I had it at ***** 1/2* on the last watch, which was like a year ago.
> 
> ...


Yer I wholeheartedly believe its the best match of Rocky's career, not his greatest performance but his best overall match ever. Ill have to rewatch Brock/Kurt but I think I have HHH/Rock as the greatest Ironman match ever. Just thinking how horrible a Rocky/HHH ironman match would be today :lmao


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Fandango.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Hmm, I'm thinking BigCow. :lmao, Hopefully, I don't get banned.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LOL @ not letting the A's breathe.

Rock Vs ANYBODY in an ironman match would be hell. Pretty sure I'd rather watch both the Dolph-Kofi series & the Randy Orton series back to back, which is fucking saying something.


----------



## Sharp_Shooter (Mar 12, 2013)

GOATAntics said:


> Oh god, Sharp_Shitter don't contaminate this part of the forum too.


Just had to pop in to have a laugh at you trying to act like an authority on something before getting immediately and repeatedly shot down :lol

Btw I had Cena/HBK being better too.


----------



## NO! NO! NO! (May 15, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> vs. Sting (Nitro 4/26/1999)
> vs. Goldberg (Halloween Havoc '97)
> vs. Chris Benoit (Superbrawl '98)
> vs. Chris Benoit vs. Raven (Uncensored '98)
> vs. Johnny B. Badd (Superbrawl '96)


Great choices there, especially the Goldberg one. For me that was Goldberg's best WCW match. 

I would also recommend DDP's matches with Randy Savage as well. They were probably my favourite matches from DDP, and the best Savage had in WCW also. They just had great chemistry together and all of their matches were fun to watch. Here is a link to his match with Savage at Spring Stampede:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5...p-vs-randy-s_sport?search_algo=2#.UZhgFcqir-U

They also fought each other at Great American Bash 97 and Halloween Havoc 97 should anyone be interested in watching any further matches between them!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Sharp_Shooter said:


> Just had to pop in to have a laugh at you trying to act like an authority on something before getting immediately and repeatedly shot down :lol
> 
> Btw I had Cena/HBK being better too.


So let me get this straight, You popped in here cause you saw my name in the latest replied section, :lmao. Never knew i had the power to bring you into an unknown thread of the forum and even post in it. That obsession. 

You dislike Taker and would even have Khali/Kane over it from the same event.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Is it to late to add one more match to the card tomorrow GoatAntics vs sharpshooter in a extreme rulez match :lol


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> Is it to late to add one more match to the card tomorrow GoatAntics vs sharpshooter in a extreme rulez match :lol


Yes, the card is full. Even the pre-show, which features the most must see pre-show superstar in the WWE today. :miz


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Sharp_Shitter - came, posted, got demolished, logged out. His entire existence summed up in 6 words. :lmao.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Damn GOATantics, is it just me or do you have beef with like EVERYBODY in the general WWE section?

Anyways, about to watch Benoit-Christian-OJ-Booker. Remember this being rather disappointing.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

JBL/Mysterio and Eddie/Batista are the only two matches from No Mercy 05 I really enjoyed.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Damn GOATantics, is it just me or do you have beef with like EVERYBODY in the general WWE section?


Nope, I get pissed off easily at times, Austin316GOAT, Sharp_Shooter and Most Rocky marks (except for Oliver & C2D) are the ONLY members who i legitimately don't like. I know for sure, Tony Tornado has beef with you . .

All those awful members make me realize how much of a rarity it is, to have such a graceful thread like this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Tony Trollnado can go fuck himself :lol.

Oh fuck, Bob Holly Vs Ken Kennedy. What supreme being did I piss off to deserve this shit?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Did Flair/Cena had a good match or a match at all?


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

No, They had a few tag team ones though.

Taker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton is FUN, FUN, FUN. I remember one specific part which made me burst out in laughter - Bob trolling around the ring with a extinguisher in hand, looking fuck all dazed and confused, :lmao.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They opposed each other in an OVW tag a really long time ago, but never had a singles match against one another. If I got to see Ric Flair against the likes of John Cena & CM Punk then I would have been a very happy man. Speaking of dream matches, has anybody ever dreamed about a match (figuratively, not literally) for a long time, only for the match to eventually take place?

HHH VS LESNAR & HHH VS CM PUNK FOR ME. :mark:.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Taker at WM, immediately after WM 28 I dreamt about that match


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

On a related note, Taker/Batista. Just thinking of both these heavyweights in the ring and throwing bombs, sent shivers (in a good way) down my spine as a teen.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

the taker vs batista series was pretty awesome

loved it

though for some reason, im more partial to his match with Edge at 24. dunno why. it just screamed EPIC to me. i became an edge fan after that match


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

THE ANIMAL VS THE PHENOM


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Batista/Taker is great. Not a single bad match in the series, and three of the four matches run alongside equally great RAW main events, which make some 2007 PPV's worth watching, just for the two main events. Awesome stuff from both men, and I'd definitely have to say that Undertaker is Batista's best opponent.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton*
_Wrestlemania XXII_

This was a very Jekyll and Hyde type of match. It started off with a BANG with a picture perfect dropkick by Randy Orton and an AMAZING Double German Suplex by Kurt Angle. Things got weird after the first 3 or 4 minutes though. 

There really wasn't much structure to this match. It was just a bunch of... moves thrown together, I guess. Usually I'm a mark for spotfests, but this was so odd. You had Kurt Angle suplexing anything that moved and being made to look like a machine which is fine, but Randy Orton really didn't do anything of note other than the dropkick about 20 seconds into the match and eating the pin. 

A few things didn't make much sense either. Like when Angle has the Ankle Lock on Rey Mysterio, Orton randomly comes up onto the apron with a chair which leads to the referee stopping him while Rey is tapping out. Why couldn't Orton have just entered the ring and broken up the hold? Another instance is where Angle has the Ankle Lock on Orton and Mysterio grabs the referee in an awkward position and distracts him while Orton is tapping out. I thought Mysterio was supposed to be face here..

Though I guess it didn't matter because the Chicago crowd was not into Rey AT ALL. They were booing him whenever they had the chance. I guess you couldn't blame them. They knew the only reason why Rey was getting the push in the first place is because he was close to Eddie. But that's not Rey's fault. It should also be noted that Mysterio botched a 619 around the steel post, but shit happens and he made up for it on the spot by kicking Angle in the face and dropping the dime.

The ending came when Mysterio hit the 619 on Orton and finished him with a hurricarana into a pin, shades of his match against Eddie Guerrero at Halloween Havoc 97. Cool finish and a nice touch.

Like I said, this was a very "weird" match that didn't make a WHOLE lot of sense. But I'm sure a lot of it had to do with the lack of time it got. Wikipedia says the match clocked in at 9 minutes and 19 seconds. I'm sure if it had gotten 8-10 more minutes it would have been an all-time classic. But these guys made it work with the time it got. Overall, a pretty good match that was really fast paced, but was hurt by the time it received.

*Rating: ***1/4*


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

that match was perhaps one of the worst things I ever had the misfortune of watching. Kurt angle at his worst

the entire thing was basically a 9 minute spotfest. Everything rushed as fuck Id complain thats too short but honestly, i just wanted the pain to end

The match had the super heroic rey mysterio who was fighting for his dead best friend fucking TAP halfway through the match, thus making people wonder why the fuck they should be cheering him over Angle

There was no storytelling. One man didnt fit in and it was Kurt or Randy. Kurt was just there because he had the belt. It should have been Rey vs Kurt or Rey vs Orton straight up heel vs face, because the triple threat aspect ruined it.

It was just a fiasco on every level. made no sense. no psychology. no logic. no story. even the ending sucked. just garbage. still, some spots were ok i guess. otherwise im relatively sure i had nausea after watching this thing


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

It still baffles me that Michaels/McMahon got 20 minutes instead of that match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I dislike the Edge/Taker matches for the way they chose to wrestle every fucking time except for the HIAC.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

the wrestlemania match was great

i mean it had a smart story going that edge reverses everything because he knows taker is stronger so instead hes gonna outsmart him

and it works, until Taker his the one thing edge didnt expect, THAT SUBMISSION MANOUVER

also charles robinson running down the ramp alone earns it a high ranking. best moment ever


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked most Taker vs Edge matches. Only the TLC was blah for me.

I hate Taker vs Ortons handicap match.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Ruiner87 said:


> It still baffles me that Michaels/McMahon got 20 minutes instead of that match.


Even Benoit/JBL got 20 minutes. That was an undercard match that could have been over and done with in 10-12 minutes.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

the edge vs taker tlc was spotfest trash

but taker in the end with a SINGLE tear..... dem feels


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs JBL only went 9 minutes.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i liked vince/shawn


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> I hate Taker vs Ortons handicap match.


Only casket match I have ever enjoyed. It's totally rad.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Obfuscation said:


> Benoit vs JBL only went 9 minutes.


Wikipedia has it at 19:48, but after a quick Dailymotion search I stand corrected :lol


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wikipedia :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's boring for me. I've never found it to be enjoyable in the slightest. All other Taker vs Orton matches were grand. That one can do away for good.

Shawn vs Vince @ WM 22 was probably my MOTN. It's one hell of a squash match. Best ever, tbhayley.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

its fun

it embraced the stupidity of the whole thing


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As most should. Vince is a character. All of his antics should generally be embraced as an over the top nutbar to be enjoyed.

well, if talking about Shawn vs Vince that is.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

It applies to both, really. A vote:

What is more stupid, the CEO of the company wrestling, or a match revolving around putting your opponent in a casket?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh. A casket match is no different than any other goofy gimmick implying a weapon becoming legal to me. Slam someone through a wooden table. Climb a ladder to grab the object above. Bury this guy alive.

It's all wacky when you look at it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lol at ddp/bigelow vs benoit/flair being on a cruiserweight set :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the funniest thing to make that set was a Kronik match. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I still have nightmares about the Kronik/BOD UF 2001 match. God, that made Khali/Otunga look like Benoit/Finlay in comparation.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I'm in NEWFIELAND so it starts at 9:30 PM.
> 
> Could be worse, could start at like 2 in the morning like it does for UK folk .
> 
> THE BEAST INCARNATE VS THE KING OF KINGS. INNER WARFARE.


Starts at 1am in the UK for me, think it's 2am in the rest of Europe so I think it's 2am for Choke2Death. Still not sure if I'm going to watch it. :side: 



Obfuscation said:


> Shawn vs Vince @ WM 22 was probably my MOTN. It's one hell of a squash match. Best ever, tbhayley.


Over Edge/Foley? I'd put HBK/Vince as the second best match of the night, better than HHH/Cena for me, but it's not better than Edge/Foley imo.

Edge/Foley *****1/2*
HBK/Vince ****3/4*
HHH/Cena ****1/2*

My ratings on the three matches.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Jericho SS08- ***1/4
Cena/Jericho Armageddon 08- ***3/4


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I had both at 3 stars iirc


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Over Edge/Foley? I'd put HBK/Vince as the second best match of the night, better than HHH/Cena for me, but it's not better than Edge/Foley imo.
> 
> Edge/Foley *****1/2*
> HBK/Vince ****3/4*
> ...


Probably. It can fluctuate among the two. I do really, really love Shawn vs Vince though. It's like Backlash '06, the Handicap match & Triple Threat can be interchangeable for me too when it comes to which I have the most fun while watching.

I don't care for Cena vs Trips at all. Only the result.



Srdjan99 said:


> Cena/Jericho SS08- ***1/4
> Cena/Jericho Armageddon 08- ***3/4


SSeries - ****1/4
Armageddon - ***3/4

The SSeries match was easily a top five match for me in '08.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jericho/Cena SS was very good, but NADA comes close to the Ladder match vs HBK for '08 Jericho to me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Probably. It can fluctuate among the two. I do really, really love Shawn vs Vince though. It's like Backlash '06, the Handicap match & Triple Threat can be interchangeable for me too when it comes to which I have the most fun while watching.


I really enjoyed HBK/Vince too. 

I know some people here didn't like it, but I liked their feud too - from when it was between Shawn and The McMahon's - to DX and The McMahon's. Lots of funny moments.

Shawn and Shane McMahon had a pretty fun match on Saturday night's Main event that doesn't get much attention. 

That match produced this awesome moment:






And their Unforgiven Hell in a Cell match was pretty damn fun too.  






love the moment at 34:36


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I hate the SNL match between Shane and Michaels. Two spots and that's it, I wasn't too fond of the ending either, Most will say it was storytelling genius considering the involvement of Bret/Screwjob in the plot line, but it all seemed a little predictable (?) to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn near all of the Shawn vs Vince program was a hit for me. Fun on all aspects. No matter how zany it got. I just took it for what it was and had a blast. I think I'm one of the biggest fans of the SummerSlam tag & Handicap HIAC. I can watch those many times. And have. 

I only do remember the big spots from the Saturday Night's Main Event street fight. I know I have - what? what will I say here...yep, you guessed it - FUN with it though. If I wasn't lazy I'd pop in one of these matches or this specific one and give it a whirl. I got something else on as it is so there is always tomorrow. I can watch as I kill time till Extreme Rules.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Can't say I'm über excited for ER but I'm pleasantly looking forward to Ambrose on PPV, Brock/Hunter, Sheamus/Henry, and most of all the Tornado Tag. I love the TT stip and it's especially exciting with the teams involved and given how it's one of the only stips that WWE don't whore out. Bryan and Rollins in constant action for 15 minutes is all I need to make my night.

I haven't given it much thought but the card is actually really solid overall. Orton/Show could be a hidden gem thanks to the ER stip (even though Orton = immediate no fucks given), Cena/Ryback might work, Jericho/Fandango will probably be decent, and ADR/Swagger should be alright, although those two are so boring I can't see myself getting invested.

Should be a night of solid work and fun. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Starts at 1am in the UK for me, think it's 2am in the rest of Europe so I think it's 2am for Choke2Death. Still not sure if I'm going to watch it. :side:


Yep, it's 2 am for me. That's usually the time I go to sleep so I should be able to catch a match or two and then the rest for the next day. Funny how I've missed out most of the TV stuff but have seen every PPV and the trend will continue for ER.



Nostalgia said:


> I really enjoyed HBK/Vince too.
> 
> I know some people here didn't like it, but I liked their feud too - from when it was between Shawn and The McMahon's - to DX and The McMahon's. Lots of funny moments.


There were some funny moments but a lot of it was so childish and try-hard. I am almost finished with 2006 and even though I loved parts of the DX reunion, I've hated lots of it because their "we don't care, we'll always stand tall" booking and attitude gets boring after a while. I also despise that fat "Big Dick Johnson" character which clearly no one outside of DX gave a fuck about.

I did enjoy most of the McMahon tag matches, though. As well as Shawn destroying Vince at Mania. But the Spirit Squad and the toilet humor was annoying. Even some of Cena's childish jokes have been funnier than a lot of what DX did there.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I have quite an open minded prediction on Ryback/Cena. I reckon it will start off with a control segment by Ryback, then suddenly out of the bliss of time, Cena will perform his AA and pin Ry with the signature early-Khali (Boot on stomach) pin. Although, I'm sure this is inaccurate, .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> I have quite an open minded prediction on Ryback/Cena. I reckon it will start off with a control segment by Ryback, then suddenly out of the bliss of time, Cena will perform his AA and pin Ry with the signature early-Khali (Boot on stomach) pin. Although, I'm sure this is inaccurate, .


 Except pinfalls aren't allowed. It's a Last man standing match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> I have quite an open minded prediction on Ryback/Cena. I reckon it will start off with a control segment by Ryback, then suddenly out of the bliss of time, Cena will perform his AA and pin Ry with the signature early-Khali (Boot on stomach) pin. Although, I'm sure this is inaccurate, .


Cena/Ryback is Last Man Standing


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Neither of the Jericho/Cena matches would probably make my top 10 from 08. Don't think they make my top 20 of the year either. The SVS match I'd give ***1/2 and Armageddon ***1/4. 

Vince/HBK is garbage, and some people putting it at ****+ used to be the most baffling thing I'd ever seen as far as thoughts/ratings on a wrestling match goes... that is until Lesnar/HHH happened this year. 

... damn, I love getting my shots in at Lesnar/HHH, don't I?  Hopefully the cage match is good at least so I can forget all about the Mania match and never have to complain about it again.

Oh, and those WM22 matches Nostalgia mentioned in the quote above:

Edge/Foley ****1/4
HBK/Vince **1/2
HHH/Cena ***


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Is it? I haven't been keeping up with RAW. My prediction is he'll use duct tabe again. :lmao, Cena and his troll status.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^WWE already used duct tape this year in a Last Man Standing match. 8*D


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Is it? I haven't been keeping up with RAW. My prediction is he'll use duct tape again. :lmao, Cena and his troll status.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> ^WWE already used duct tape this year in a Last Man Standing match. 8*D


That was 3-4 months ago. No one remembers it. :vince


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I think it'll be a double count out tbh, hopefully after a SHIELD run in.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Jericho/Cena SS was very good, but NADA comes close to the Ladder match vs HBK for '08 Jericho to me.


I'll tellin you guys, Judgment Day is where it's at for Michaels vs. Jericho.

---------------------------------

As far as Extreme Rules goes, I'm getting more excited the closer it gets. All I can really think about is how awesome the past 2 years have been (yes, I really liked 2011). Brock/Trips and the Tornado Tag should make it worth my while.


----------



## NO! NO! NO! (May 15, 2013)

Been watching alot of the later Smackdown stuff recently, especially matches from the tag team title scene. How awesome were the matches thst involved Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero and Chavo Guerrero from the later part of that year? If you want to see how you can make the tag division relevant and important, just look at these matches. WWE promoted it as the second biggest angle going on their Smackdown brand at the time, and it was quite possibly the best thing they had going on in the entire company. Every week I would look forward to seeing some sort of combination of the superstars mentioned above and knew it would be entertaining. Even the encounters they had as singles wrestlers in the months before the WWE team titles were introduced were all awesome to watch (Angle/Rey, Edge/Eddie, Benoit/Angle/Rey. 

Here is a link to quite possibly my favourite tag team match in WWE history. It's easily in the top three/four matches matches that WWE produced in 2002 in my opinion. And 2002 was a pretty good year in terms of match quality.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tornado Tag is the match I'm psyched up the most for tonight. It seems so good on paper. I can't see it not being good. All the right aspects are there for a wild & wooly contest.

Fingers crossed Brock vs Trips works in the cage. SummerSlam was solid, but nothing too special & WM was great imo. Something has to give. Lets hope the gimmicks help these two out.

oh and I'm totally pumped for Swagger vs Del Rio. I think this needs more love at the prospects of what can be given. Their last two matches were wonderful. I Quit could hopefully toss in a new wrinkle for these two to work with.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I don't know about you guys but I'm pumped for the Swagger/Del Rio I Quit match at Extreme Rules. I think it has the potential to steal the show depending on how many minutes it's given to deliver.

Is there any match you guys see being the MOTN tonight?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'll tellin you guys, Judgment Day is where it's at for Michaels vs. Jericho.


:mark: This times by 1000.  I wrote a review about it a few months ago and pimped it to no end. My personal favourite and pick for their best match in the 2008 series

Extreme Rules looks like a pretty solid card, Tornado tag should be chaotic and potential MOTN. Only other things I'm really looking forward to is Sheamus/Henry, Brock/HHH and hopefully seeing Ambrose taking home the US title :mark:


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Just watched No Mercy 2008. Triple H vs Jeff Hardy or Y2J vs HBK?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

NO! NO! NO! said:


> Here is a link to quite possibly my favourite tag team match in WWE history. It's easily in the top three/four matches matches that WWE produced in 2002 in my opinion. And 2002 was a pretty good year in terms of match quality.


easily the best match of 2002. i love brock/taker from the same ppv but it's not in the same league as the tag.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Did _xdoomsayers_ just state HBK/Cena was better than Batista/Taker at WM23 and overall MOTN? fpalm.




What's wrong with that? Both were good, but HBK/Cena was better. Dat piledriver on the steal steps.... 

:mark


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Just watched No Mercy 2008. Triple H vs Jeff Hardy or Y2J vs HBK?


You know what, I actually have to go with Hardy vs Trips on this one. Match blows me away. Hardy is the MAN in it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Neither of the Jericho/Cena matches would probably make my top 10 from 08. Don't think they make my top 20 of the year either. The SVS match I'd give ***1/2 and Armageddon ***1/4.
> 
> Vince/HBK is garbage, and some people putting it at ****+ used to be the *most baffling thing I'd ever seen as far as thoughts/ratings on a wrestling match goes...* that is until Lesnar/HHH happened this year.
> 
> ...


Surely Punk/Rock RR 13 was TOTALLY a ****+ classic like MANY (not just some) say, right? :vince


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

NO! NO! NO! said:


> Been watching alot of the later Smackdown stuff recently, especially matches from the tag team title scene. How awesome were the matches thst involved Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Edge, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero and Chavo Guerrero from the later part of that year? If you want to see how you can make the tag division relevant and important, just look at these matches. WWE promoted it as the second biggest angle going on their Smackdown brand at the time, and it was quite possibly the best thing they had going on in the entire company. Every week I would look forward to seeing some sort of combination of the superstars mentioned above and knew it would be entertaining. Even the encounters they had as singles wrestlers in the months before the WWE team titles were introduced were all awesome to watch (Angle/Rey, Edge/Eddie, Benoit/Angle/Rey.
> 
> Here is a link to quite possibly my favourite tag team match in WWE history. It's easily in the top three/four matches matches that WWE produced in 2002 in my opinion. And 2002 was a pretty good year in terms of match quality.


:mark: One of the best tag matches, I've seen. So much creativity in, the match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> Just watched No Mercy 2008. Triple H vs Jeff Hardy or Y2J vs HBK?


Jericho/Shawn only by a bit. Hunter/Hardy is :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> Is there any match you guys see being the MOTN tonight?


I'm thinkin Tornado Tag > Steel Cage > I Quit. Then the rest falls in line, but Sheamus/Henry could surprise me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The No Mercy 2002 tag is good, but overrated as hell. Although I haven't watched it in two years, but if it was that good I would have rewatched it by now. Now I'm rambling, will probably rewatch later tonight.

I hope they give Sheamus vs Henry and Orton vs Show a decent amount of time, both can be great. I'm honestly expecting this PPV to be great. There actually isn't a bad match on the card, it's quite scary because they can easily just fuck it up for me (


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Henry should be awesome. It's the stip attached that makes one think its quality may not be as strong as some other matches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MOTN: Brock/Trips. I mean they at least owe us one good match

Trash of the night: Jericho/Fandango. Sorry Jericho


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If Hell No/Shield delievers than I'll be enough happy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All I know is, if Kofi Kingston loses his championship, this PPV is a win.

8*D _(but I am rather serious too.)_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

For No Mercy 08, I'd take the ladder match by a slight margin above Hardy/HHH. Both are great matches, though. Not to overlook Taker/Show!

And on the topic of Extreme Rules, I think I might check out one or two matches from the past ER's just to continue preparing myself for it. One will be Orton/Punk (long overdue) and maybe I'll take something from 2009.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*WWF Title: The Rock (c) vs. Triple H w/ Special Referee: Shawn Michaels (Ironman Match ; Judgment Day 2000)
*








Just thinking of a 2013 Rocky/HHH ironman match makes me laugh. This however was in 2000 were HHH was godlike and Rocky was probably at his peak as well. I have to mention how great the commentary was, especially from King. He mentions the mentality of 60 minute matches and also at the beginning talks about the aggressive lockup being wasted energy. Just in general he was brilliant talking about the psychology of the match. I may as well break it into falls since its such a long match and each fall deserves to be talked about specifically. 

First Fall: The first fall starts with an aggressive lockup, which King explains as bad psychology, but if you follow it's also great psychology as well because both men have no idea how to approach the match. Their temper gets the better of both men until HHH starts to stall and recuperate knowing that its a bad plan, such great storytelling. A lot of early pins by Rocky which is always smart in an ironman match. Rocky eventually hits a rock bottom out of nowhere to take the first fall. 

Second Fall: The second fall starts with both men brawling up the aisle, I've seen someone state it before but I love how they don't do any of the count out crap since it will do nothing but change the score from 1-0 to 2-1. Rocky begins to attack the leg of HHH which is sold pretty well throughout the match. I loved how HHH's pride stopped him from tapping out to the figure four, and also King stating he can't afford to go 2 falls down, where he could of tapped out and avoided having substantial damage to his knee for the remainder of the match. Once again such great storytelling. They brawl some more and HHH goes for plenty of covers showing he is desperate to get the next fall. The Rock attacks the knee again but eventually HHH hits the pedigree and takes the second fall. 

Third Fall: Since their are no rest periods, HHH takes advantage and rolls Rocky up for a quick fall. Brilliant. 

Fourth Fall: Rocky eventually gets back into it as they once again start brawling up the aisle, as HHH takes some heavy bumps on the concrete. They hit the ring again as HHH hits a big piledriver and takes the fourth fall. HHH now has a hefty 3-1 lead with just under 30 minutes to go. The crowd starts to get hot as they beg and plead for the Rock to get back into it. 

Fifth Fall: Triple H maintains the control of the match, but Rocky begins to make some mini comebacks only for HHH to shut them down quickly. Rocky with big right hands and then gets a cradle pin for a 2 count. A lot more back and forward offence as both men go for plenty of covers once again selling desperation as this fall will be crucial for both men. For HHH one more fall for him will put Rocky surely away and for Rocky this fall will bring him only one fall away from tying it up. HHH locks in a sleeper and uses the ropes in which HBK sees and tells him off. Rocky hits a DDT out of nowhere and takes the fifth fall. 

Sixth Fall: The sixth fall begins with some more brawling on the outside near the time keeper's table. HHH grabs a chair in which HBK takes off him, both men get back in the ring as HHH kicks Rocky away and grabs the chair and hits Rocky for the DQ. It's all tied up.

Seventh Fall: Triple H immediately pins a bloody Rock and takes back the lead 4-3. Such an brilliant move by HHH. 

Eighth Fall: HHH dominates this fall as he should, as Rocky gets practically no offence in. HHH locks a sleeper hold in but Rocky manages to fight it off, but eventually gets caught in another sleeper hold which puts Rocky away and puts HHH up 5-3. 

Ninth Fall: HHH refuses to let go of the sleeper hold, so HBK forces HHH off of Rocky. HHH and HBK then begin a pushing war. Rocky begins to fight back and hit a lot of offence in this fall, basically because he needs to get back into the match. Rocky hits a big superplex for a near fall as the crowd is still heavily invested in the match. They hit the outside as HHH sets up for a rock bottom onto the announce table, only for Rocky to counter and hit the pedigree to HHH onto the announce table. Rocky rolls into the ring and wins the next fall by count out. 5-4 HHH now, but all the momentum is with Rocky for the final 5 minutes. Both men are selling exhaustion so well, however I'm just assuming they would have been exhausted anyway but nonetheless.

Tenth Fall: HHH is now busted open and barely makes it back into the ring to avoid getting counted out again. Rocky begins to go on offence hitting big punches and hitting as much high impact moves as he can. Rocky hits the DDT, as Shane and Vince come down knowing that the DDT put HHH away earlier to try and break up the count. Rocky knocks them away and hits the people elbow to lock it up at 5-5 with 2 minutes left. 

Eleventh Fall: HBK begins the fall with beating down Shane and Vince on the outside as DX runs down, only for the Undertaker to return to one of the biggest pops ever. The crowd went absolutely crazy as Taker destroys DX by himself, he eventually hits the chokeslam on HHH as HBK gets back up, leading to the DQ with a second left and giving HHH the win and the title by the score of 6-5. 

God lord what a match and what a roller coaster of a ride. Coming into this match I wasn't expected that much but this generally blew me away and is in my humble opinion the greatest ironman match ever. The psychology and booking was stellar and the match never got boring for one second. The selling was amazing, the timing especially Rocky's Comebacks were excellent. The last two minutes generally bother a lot of people, but for me it didn't ruin the amazing 58 minutes that came before it. I loved nearly everything about this match and struggle to think of words to describe the awesomeness I just witnessed. Take away the last 2 minutes of overbooking ( I still didn't find it that bad as it made sense to a extent) and you have basically a perfect match. This is without a doubt in my mind the best match in Rocky's career and a top 3 for the Game, and if HHH/Foley didn't happen this would be the MOTY for 2000 in my eyes. I may be jumping the gun but as of writing this, it very well may be in my top 20 ever for WWE. Watch this match!!! 

***** 3/4*


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Currently watching last years event. Man Orton/kane is a fantastic opener! Kinda gets forgotten about due to the big 3. 

***3/4


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ Good show imo.

I really liked last years Mania 28. It really craps on 29 by comparison, by a long shot. And the night after was such a great RAW. Everyone loves the post RAW crowd from this year, but I'd take last years crowd and actual RAW because it they were more well rounded and hot for the show as well. Plus Bork. Nuff said.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock vs Trips Ironman. I tell ya, only saw it once via live on PPV and I know that's a crime. Those two may not be special workers but I remember that match being amazing the entire way through. 

By most reviews it seems my memory has swayed me in the popular direction. Most tend to love it themselves. From what I've seen on this place, at least.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Rock vs Trips Ironman. I tell ya, only saw it once via live on PPV and I know that's a crime. Those two may not be special workers but I remember that match being amazing the entire way through.
> 
> By most reviews it seems my memory has swayed me in the popular direction. Most tend to love it themselves. From what I've seen on this place, at least.


Definitely needs a rewatch then, it completely blew my mind granted I wasn't going in with high expectations but it never dragged at any point and just worked so well. I had seen it once before and thought it was great, but this time it was something else,not many 60 minute matches can keep my interest the whole time.

Rocky's Cardio :mark: 

:lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Malenko vs Jericho from Uncensored. Enjoyed it quite a bit and the post-match interview was hilarious. "I've never seen an expression on this man's face before" :lol

I'm not as big a fan of the ironman Rock/HHH match as others here are, but I definitely agree with it being a hell of a match. ★★★★ from me.



xdoomsayerx said:


> Currently watching last years event. Man Orton/kane is a fantastic opener! Kinda gets forgotten about due to the big 3.
> 
> ***3/4


To me, it knocks Punk/Jericho out for the third spot.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just watched Malenko vs Jericho from Uncensored. Enjoyed it quite a bit and the post-match interview was hilarious. "I've never seen an expression on this man's face before" :lol
> 
> I'm not as big a fan of the ironman Rock/HHH match as others here are, but I definitely agree with it being a hell of a match. ★★★★ from me.
> 
> ...




Could really make a case for it. But I have Punk/Jericho slightly better. (I prefer punk/Jericho from mania though)

Kane/Orton. ***3/4
Bryan/Sheamus. ****1/2
Punk/Jericho. ****
Brock/Cena. ****1/4


Great event and I was so into it from the start, being there 6th row was awesome.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Last years event was stellar, ratings for the 4 best matches. 

Kane/Orton - **** 1/2*
Sheamus/Bryan - ***** 1/2*
Punk/Jericho - ******
Brock/Cena - ***** 3/4* (MOTY)

:cena3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No match that wasn't at least very fun. Even the shitty matches (Clay/Ziggler, Ryback, etc.) were really fun.

Speaking of which I did myself a "perfect PPV" card for 2012 (3 rules: no repeat wrestlers, no repeat titles, one match per PPV):

THEME: Jump Jump Dance Dance - "White Picket Fences"
PRE-SHOW: Diva Battle Royal TLC - 1/4*
-----------------
Miz/Rey SSlam - ***1/4
Beth/Tamina EC - *1/2
Primo & Epico/PTP MITB - **1/2
Cesaro/Gabriel HIAC - **1/2
Orton/Ziggler NOC - ****
Show/Sheamus SS - ***1/2
Cena/Lesnar ER - *****
Clay/McIntyre RR - DUD
Punk/Bryan OTL - ****3/4
Ryback/Jobbers NWO - DUD
Taker/HHH WM - *****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Definitely needs a rewatch then, it completely blew my mind granted I wasn't going in with high expectations but it never dragged at any point and just worked so well. I had seen it once before and thought it was great, but this time it was something else,not many 60 minute matches can keep my interest the whole time.
> 
> Rocky's Cardio :mark:
> 
> :lmao


Broadways can be a turn off to some folk. Especially if done poorly. (duh, huh? haha) I don't mind a long match as long as its coming off well in the early going. Infamously known for crapping all over Hart vs Michaels which deserves it. Garbage 60 minute match. Where as something like...Brock vs Angle for example going 60 minutes in WWE is like A MILLION times better and well worth the watch. I got to see this one again.

Rock's cardio was once top notch. I wonder what happened 8*D


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

You know what, I am so sick and tired of this forum. 1 - 2 month hiatus is what i need from here and wrestling as a whole. I shouldn't be getting angry at forum members and releasing insults, It's stupid. So i say this to my home, my gateway, my land of peace, I will be gone for awhile but don't be saddened by this loss, cause one day you'll find another Taker match placed at ****3/4 when it only really deserves ****. If you don't believe me, i'm actually logging out this time, and unchecking the "remember me" which i NEVER do.

SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. Wait, Wait, hold on. Once i come back and IF i find this text quoted on another thread in this forum, I will hunt down the poster and gut him like a fish. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!!!!? Okay, Good. SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. I WILL ALWAYS LOVE ALIENBOUNTYHUNTER, ZEP81, CAL, BEAST INCARNATE, *******, HAYLEY, JACK EVANS, NOSTALGIA, CHOKE2DEATH, OLIVER94, Hohenheim of Light, THE LADY KILLER, FUNNYFACES, DARK CHURCH, CLIQUE, YEAH1993, Srdjan99 AND OF COURSE GAMBLORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. :clap. AND BYE BYE. .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

To watch Extreme Rules HIGH or to watch Extreme Rules SOBER...

That my friends, is the question.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tough choice. Do you want to experience the results without knowledge under the influence or sober and then go back for the second viewing the other way. I'd say go in high. Live a little.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

If Lesnar does a shoot star press of the steel cage, it's an automatic ***** match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I'm leaning towards at the moment, but I'm not entirely sure yet. Never really watched a live PPV high yet, but I HAVE indeed indulged in MANY A PPV whilst under the influence. Plus I have the whole SPINE issue in which I could use the Mary Jane as a painkiller in the first place, so that just adds to the likelihood of me blazing.

Just watched JBL Vs Rey Mysterio @ No Mercy 2005 and SURPRISE... It was really fucking great. JBL doing little things such as clubbing the shit out of Rey's back while having him in a bearhug worked to establish JBL as that dickhead fucking BIG MUTHAPHUCKIN' TEXAN heel, & Rey was awesome working from the bottom up as always. This show has been lackluster up to this point, but with the Handicap Casket/Juvi Vs Nunzio/Batista-Eddie on tap I think it has the chance to be saved. MAYBE.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Lastmanstanding1 said:


> If Lesnar does a shoot star press of the steel cage, it's an automatic ***** match.


This time he might not get back up. He won't risk something like that tho.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I see Orton opening up the show for the third straight year for this event. He'll most likely get pop of the night might as well get the fans into right away. 

As for Orton/Show I'm not expecting nothing special, hopefully this will be they're only ppv match. Orton needs to be in the bigger picture and show needs a break IMO.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I adore about Brock though; he may not have an undying passion for the business and doesn't claim to have an undying passion for the business, but when he goes out there you can be sure that he'll go the extra mile to put on a show for the fans and take risks to enhance the story, even if he doesn't have to due to being a part timer. He could easily just show up, put in minimal effort and wrestle shit matches like the Rock and coast on name value, but what does BROCK do in his first match in 8 years?






Go to 23:40. He clearly doesn't need to take big time risks like that due to being a part timer, but he does it anyways to be the best performer he can be, and it's showing due to being arguably the best in ring performer in the entire fucking company today. I just seriously don't think I'd take ANYBODY in the ring over a motivated Lesnar, he's just too good at what he does.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lesnar definitely loves performing. I don't think anyone can doubt that. He will never again try the Shooting Star Press, though. And he shouldn't.

And Evan, you didn't like the fatal four way from No Mercy 05? That along with the other three main matches (JBL/Rey, handicap casket and Eddie/Batista) make it a very good show to me. Think I'm gonna watch the casket match later today.

Also proxies are a wonderful thing. Due to my location, I can not watch full-matches uploaded to wwe.com so what I did is look for a NA proxy and use it to browse the net and it's worked! Funny thing is, the American IP gave me the same error but when I switched to a Canadian one, it worked. Definitely using this tactic for the future as WWE owns all their stuff in perfect quality. Sucks none of Benoit's matches are available, though.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Lesnar definitely loves performing. I don't think anyone can doubt that. He will never again try the Shooting Star Press, though. And he shouldn't.
> 
> And Evan, you didn't like the fatal four way from No Mercy 05? That along with the other three main matches (JBL/Rey, handicap casket and Eddie/Batista) make it a very good show to me. Think I'm gonna watch the casket match later today.
> 
> Also proxies are a wonderful thing. Due to my location, I can not watch full-matches uploaded to wwe.com so what I did is look for a NA proxy and use it to browse the net and it's worked! Funny thing is, the American IP gave me the same error but when I switched to a Canadian one, it worked. Definitely using this tactic for the future as WWE owns all their stuff in perfect quality. Sucks none of Benoit's matches are available, though.


I know, just wishful thinking. But yeah, Brock is the FUCKING man.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Lesnar at his best > everybody except the Undertaker at his best imo


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought the fatal four way match was good, but not to the point where it was a good match on PPV (if that makes any sense). I had it at *** 3/4* and felt that it was carried by Benoit for the most part as Jordan is downright horrendous and Booker T isn't good at all (well, he ISN'T!). Christian did his thing too, the match is okay but extremely underwhelming. I always enjoy the Benoit-Booker best of seven series though that's for sure (well, I THINK... Haven't seen in a while unfortunately as is the case with most late 2005 - early 2006 stuff).

HOL spittin' the truth once again, I wish Rock would just go away forever so we could have BROCK Vs Taker @ XXX.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Rock's cardio was once top notch. I wonder what happened 8*D


lol. 

Dude is indeed way too big to be wrestling long bouts these days thats for sure. Hes not used to it and it doesn't help that he always had a match these days right before going to film a movie where he has to look the big ass dude part. Shame. Its crazy how everyone was going on about how big that guy was when he returned in 2011 but he was actually way, way smaller compared to today and performed better individually in the ring going by Survivor Series 2011. While I still think Rock's performance being bad since that night is still a bit of an overreaction I stand by my belief that he could pump out a really great match if he were smaller, and had the proper time beforehand to focus and prepare only on wrestling. 



GOATAntics said:


> You know what, I am so sick and tired of this forum. 1 - 2 month hiatus is what i need from here and wrestling as a whole. I shouldn't be getting angry at forum members and releasing insults, It's stupid. So i say this to my home, my gateway, my land of peace, I will be gone for awhile but don't be saddened by this loss, cause one day you'll find another Taker match placed at ****3/4 when it only really deserves ****. If you don't believe me, i'm actually logging out this time, and unchecking the "remember me" which i NEVER do.
> 
> SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. Wait, Wait, hold on. Once i come back and IF i find this text quoted on another thread in this forum, I will hunt down the poster and gut him like a fish. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!!!!? Okay, Good. SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. I WILL ALWAYS LOVE ALIENBOUNTYHUNTER, ZEP81, CAL, BEAST INCARNATE, *******, HAYLEY, JACK EVANS, NOSTALGIA, CHOKE2DEATH, OLIVER94, Hohenheim of Light, THE LADY KILLER, FUNNYFACES, DARK CHURCH, CLIQUE, YEAH1993, Srdjan99 AND OF COURSE GAMBLORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. :clap. AND BYE BYE. .


lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL vs Mysterio from No Mercy '05 = :mark:

It's a lot better for me than their Judgment Day match.

I also really really dig the four way for the US Championship on No Mercy too. Casket & Eddie/Batista do next to nothing for me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The best part of the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series is ironically when Booker T isn't competing

rton


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> The best part of the Benoit/Booker best of 7 series is ironically when Booker T isn't competing
> 
> rton


Definitely. But Booker was much better than usual in those Benoit matches. Specially Armageddon and the 17/10 match when Benoit hit that Suicide Dive that almost broke his back.

The best Rock match since returning is still Wrestlemania 28 imo. It truly felt like a big time match and even though many left disappointed, I was satisfied with it. A ★★★★ match for me.

VVV


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Both of Rock's matches with Cena should've been 15 - 18 mins max. They could've just done away with the pointless rest-holds and do a long feeling out process followed by BOMBS. The shit we got was stupid.

Elimination Chamber vs. Punk is his best match since coming back imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First match vs Cena is still my pick. I think it's average and can stomach watching despite its length. The rest I legit can't finish. They're so bad.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

And they kept giving him 20 - 30 min matches.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Both of Rock's matches with Cena should've been 15 - 18 mins max. They could've just done away with the pointless rest-holds and do a long feeling out process followed by BOMBS. The shit we got was stupid.
> 
> Elimination Chamber vs. Punk is his best match since coming back imo.


All of the recent Rock matches for me range to meh-average.

But I agree. Cena/Rock matches were way too long. The 2nd one with the overbooked finisher ending on top of its length of a match was silly. Should've cut the time down and leveled it out. 

Rumble vs Punk was too one sided and had a silly overbooked ending w/ Shield. Not a big fan of that one.

I liked the Chamber match because of the equal amount of offense from Punk & Rock and the storytelling from both guys utilizing that DQ stip. It still had a silly ending though.

Rock's best individual performance still stands as Survivor Series. I think his matches after that would have turned out much better if he stayed in that shape, prepared like he did for that match, and worked with less time. 

Rock can not work a long match being that big, older, and not putting in the time to make things right. He just can't. I know they want that spectacle feel for the guy but giving the circumstances it wasn't right having him in long ass bouts.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Puzzling, I know. Most noted in the rematch vs Cena. Why on earth would they think it needed to go 20+ minutes again? Nobody would've cared if it would have been a short bombs only type match. It sure as hell could have possibly been decent if worked in that fashion. WWE didn't use their brains here. Trying to make something long and epic - it didn't work.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep, it's 2 am for me. That's usually the time I go to sleep so I should be able to catch a match or two and then the rest for the next day. *Funny how I've missed out most of the TV stuff but have seen every PPV and the trend will continue for ER.*


Good point. Despite how little I care for the product right now, I haven't missed a PPV in years. Damn, I know I'll end up watching it.  

I have some interest in Cena/Ryback and The Shield's matches (just because there's titles on the line this time so it's not same old shit from The Shield) - but the rest of the card I don't really care for.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Both of Rock's matches with Cena should've been 15 - 18 mins max. They could've just done away with the pointless rest-holds and do a long feeling out process followed by BOMBS. The shit we got was stupid.
> 
> Elimination Chamber vs. Punk is his best match since coming back imo.


Quoted for truth. While I think the first Rock math was better than the Punk EC match, it was going along SO well until they started using rest holds to make it a 30 minute contest. So unnecessary. 



Choke2Death said:


> For No Mercy 08, I'd take the ladder match by a slight margin above Hardy/HHH. Both are great matches, though. Not to overlook Taker/Show!
> 
> And on the topic of Extreme Rules, I think I might check out one or two matches from the past ER's just to continue preparing myself for it. One will be Orton/Punk (long overdue) and maybe I'll take something from 2009.


I'm thinkin the same thing personally. Never been able to finish the double main event on the 2010 show despite seeing all the rest of the show (some things twice) so I may go with that.

ER 2012 is one of the best PPVs... EVER. It's almost perfect.

Orton/Kane - *** 1/4
Bryan/Sheamus - **** 1/4
Punk/Jericho - ****
Cena/Lesnar - **** 1/2 (for now, it certainly could go up)

The squash/filler matches were fun as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Show vs Rhodes is awesome. Loved the antics & story of the match. Post-match beatdown was insanity too. Rhodes took it like a champ.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Show vs Rhodes is awesome. Loved the antics & story of the match. Post-match beatdown was insanity too. Rhodes took it like a champ.


See? Another facet of the show that I COMPLETELY forgot about that makes it even more awesome. Cody got KILLED. Amazing that I remembered Ziggler/Clay (super fun) and the Ryback squash but forgot about this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rhodes went all the way up...and ALL THE WAY DOWN.

My jaw dropped when I first saw it, haha. Didn't expect to see a bump like that post-match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah, that match is pretty funny. The way Rhodes won by dropkicking The Big Show causing his foot to break the table was hilarious and Big Show's face as it happened just made it even more so. Show's post-match beatdown to Cody was nasty, that military press through the table was sick, and the Chicago crowd cheered Cody when he eventually stood up. 

:lol






Oh and Ziggler/Clay was trash. Don't remind me about that match. :side:


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Could one of you guys be a babe and list all the good matches WWE have put out since 'Mania. I've been out of the loop for a while and I would like to catch up before watching Extreme Rules tonight.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Cactus said:


> Could one of you guys be a babe and list all the good matches WWE have put out since 'Mania. I've been out of the loop for a while and I would like to catch up before watching Extreme Rules tonight.


Kofi vs Cesaro Main Event 5/1/13
Swagger vs Del Rio Smackdown 4/19/13
Shield vs Taker/Team Hell NO RAW 4/22/13

That's all I have for now. Ryback vs Daniel Bryan from Smackdown is also worth a watch.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Extreme Rules '12 was top notch and close to being perfect. One of the best PPV's ever. Fun opener with three outstanding main events.

* Orton vs. Kane. Falls Count Anywhere. ★★★1/4
* Sheamus vs. Bryan. 2/3 Falls. ★★★★1/4
* Punk vs. Jericho. Chicago Street Fight. ★★★★1/2
* Cena vs. Lesnar. No Holds Barred. ★★★★3/4

This year's ain't got shit on it.



Cactus said:


> Could one of you guys be a babe and list all the good matches WWE have put out since 'Mania. I've been out of the loop for a while and I would like to catch up before watching Extreme Rules tonight.


With pleasure.

* Del Rio vs. Swagger on SmackDown 4/19/13.
* Team Hell No & Undertaker vs. Shield on Raw 4/22/13.
* Orton vs. Rhodes on Raw 4/29/13.
* Kingston vs. Cesaro on Main Event 5/1/3.
* Ryback vs. Bryan on SmackDown 5/3/13.
* Ryback vs. Jericho on SmackDown 5/10/13.

All I have for now but I'm sure there's other matches worth the watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Amazing that both of you missed the 6-man elimination tag from RAW last week. haha. SHIELD vs. Cena & Team Hell No. Got the rest covered though. (Y)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

LOL Big Show/Cody. 

I'm watching the series of Raw's in 2011 between HIAC and Vengeance, where Triple H was "losing control" and their coming up to the vote of no confidence, which is following by Triple talking about having a better match with a broom than half the roster. GOAT burying.

12 man (!) tag match just before the vote. Had a chance to be a cluster, but was actually decent. Mason Ryan and Kofi should have fucked off. No need for them. All the faces, including Punk, were smiling ninnies. 

Oh and LOL at Cole burying Triple H during the whole show.

Also, it never fails me how easy it is (and badass) to sing along with Game's theme.

And, Mike Chioda's a better talker than half the roster. Beth Phoenix should never talk though.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Some matches I have ranked at ★★★★★

* Undertaker vs. Michaels at Bad Blood '97. Hell in a Cell.
* Mysterio vs. Eddie at Halloween Havoc '97.
* Austin vs. Rock at WrestleMania 17.
* Angle vs. Benoit at Royal Rumble '03.
* Triple H vs. Michaels vs. Benoit at WrestleMania 20.
* Angle vs. Undertaker at No Way Out '06.
* Undertaker vs. Michaels at WrestleMania 25.
* Cena vs. Punk at Money in the Bank '11.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Amazing that both of you missed the 6-man elimination tag from RAW last week. haha. SHIELD vs. Cena & Team Hell No. Got the rest covered though. (Y)


Can't believe I left that one out. Haven't seen a match involving Shield where they don't deliver, even the squash matches have been effective. Three strong talents with bright futures ahead of them.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Like I said I would, I finally watched Randy Orton vs CM Punk from Extreme Rules for the first time since the day it took place. I remember enjoying it at the time even a bit more than their Wrestlemania 27 match. Now, it's the reverse that has happened. I like the WM match more but this one was still solid. Some good parts and both men did their job well enough plus some cool spots for a LMS match such as the RKO on the announce table, the chair around Orton's throat when he was pushed towards the steel post and of course, the finish from the top rope. It did feel a bit slow halfway through to the point where it seemed like it was "hit a move, wait for opponent to respond, repeat" but overall, pretty enjoyable with the right amount of time given to them. Banning Nexus from appearing also made it much more enjoyable. ★★★¼.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'll probably watch some past Extreme Rules matches tonight in preparation for the PPV. Orton/Punk LMS will probably be one of them since I haven't seen that in ages. Mysterio/Rhodes for sure too. What's the general consensus on the triple threat WWE title match from ER 2011?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Extreme Rules '12, Money In The Bank '11, WrestleMania 28, SummerSlam '11 and TLC '12 are the best PPV's from the PG Era imo. 

ER and MITB were gold - Chicago is lucky to have 2 ***** PPV's like these (hoping Payback isn't the "cursed 2nd sequel" to these two).



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'll probably watch some past Extreme Rules matches tonight in preparation for the PPV. Orton/Punk LMS will probably be one of them since I haven't seen that in ages. Mysterio/Rhodes for sure too. What's the general consensus on the triple threat WWE title match from ER 2011?


Out there it features **** ratings. It features plenty of sick bumps, especially the Brainbuster off the Cage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus said:


> Could one of you guys be a babe and list all the good matches WWE have put out since 'Mania. I've been out of the loop for a while and I would like to catch up before watching Extreme Rules tonight.


13) William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - ****1/4 (NXT - 4/10)

14) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/19)

15) The Shield vs The Undertaker, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/22)

16) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Adrian Neville - ***1/2 (NXT - 4/24)

17) No Holds Barred Match
Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/26)

18) Big Show vs Sheamus - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 4/26)

19) The Shield vs John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/29)

20) Elimination Match
John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 5/13)

Ignore the numbers next to the matches. I took this from my MOTYC list. Everything that has made it for me post-WrestleMania.

EDIT ~ Danielson vs Ryback from Smackdown too. wtf why didn't I have it listed?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Like I said I would, I finally watched Randy Orton vs CM Punk from Extreme Rules for the first time since the day it took place. I remember enjoying it at the time even a bit more than their Wrestlemania 27 match. Now, it's the reverse that has happened. I like the WM match more but this one was still solid. Some good parts and both men did their job well enough plus some cool spots for a LMS match such as the RKO on the announce table, the chair around Orton's throat when he was pushed towards the steel post and of course, the finish from the top rope. It did feel a bit slow halfway through to the point where it seemed like it was "hit a move, wait for opponent to respond, repeat" but overall, pretty enjoyable with the right amount of time given to them. Banning Nexus from appearing also made it much more enjoyable. ★★★¼.


It also has that 'Orton in No DQ matches' syndrome where he basically buries his opponent with all the major spots, so that was a disappointment. I know you're a huge Orton fan, but you gotta know what I'm talking about right?



AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'll probably watch some past Extreme Rules matches tonight in preparation for the PPV. Orton/Punk LMS will probably be one of them since I haven't seen that in ages. Mysterio/Rhodes for sure too. What's the general consensus on the triple threat WWE title match from ER 2011?


Mysterio/Rhodes is just ridiculously fun (*** 1/2), like on the Benoit/Sullivan FCA level. I also love the Triple Threat Cage match. Morrison bumps well & Truth's involvement I thought added another cool facet to it. Last spot is (Y) as well. *** 3/4 - **** for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punker vs Orton Last Man Standing honestly kind of sucks. I was going in expecting something very good, tbhayley.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback on the ER '11 triple threat. Completely drew a blank on it, in fact I doubt I've even seen it since it aired. Will watch that tonight too. All these good matches from past Extreme Rules will probably set me up for big disappointment for the actual PPV tonight.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I may be doing the same. Watched Punk/Orton from 2011, Punk/Rey from 2010, and Cena/Lesnar from 2012. May go back to Sheamus/Bryan and check out that WWE title match from 2011.

Raw from last fall while Punk was mini-feuding with Jerry Lawler. Punk cheered like a mother in a Chicago. TIME TO BURY SHEAMUS AND THE WORLD TITLE.

Yep, Chicago is a GOAT city. AND THEY SHIT ALL OVER SHEAMUS.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It also has that 'Orton in No DQ matches' syndrome where he basically buries his opponent with all the major spots, so that was a disappointment. I know you're a huge Orton fan, but you gotta know what I'm talking about right?


Are you talking about his opponent taking all the bumps? In which case, I disagree. There were barely any major spots here and otherwise, Punk was well protected in defeat. He got up from two RKOs and at times I felt he was in control a lot more. The first match I think of when it comes to Orton "burying" his opponent is the Christian match at SummerSlam. It was awesome but it definitely felt one sided as Christian took damn near all the major bumps and Orton even kicked out of his finisher.

EDIT: Next ER match I'll check out before I complete some more homework for the night will be the steel cage one between Edge and Jericho from 2010!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cactus said:


> Could one of you guys be a babe and list all the good matches WWE have put out since 'Mania. I've been out of the loop for a while and I would like to catch up before watching Extreme Rules tonight.


★★★★ 1/4
Kassius Ohno Vs William Regal (21/03/2013 WWE) - technically post-Mania in airdate
★★★★
Antonio Cesaro Vs Kofi Kingston (WWE 01/05/2013)


Nothing else sticks out as completely "must see" but Obfuscation/HayleySabin's list is a good listing, otherwise.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Are you talking about his opponent taking all the bumps? In which case, I disagree. There were barely any major spots here and otherwise, Punk was well protected in defeat. He got up from two RKOs and at times I felt he was in control a lot more. The first match I think of when it comes to Orton "burying" his opponent is the Christian match at SummerSlam. It was awesome but it definitely felt one sided as Christian took damn near all the major bumps and Orton even kicked out of his finisher.


Yeah, the Christian match is the biggst one that suffers from it. I've seen it a lot though tbh, not really talking about control wise but when you think about the match and the major spots/memorable moments throughout, it's always Orton delivering the punishment and not taking it. Like all of these:

vs. Punk (ER 2011)
vs. Christian (Summerslam 2011)
vs. Cody Rhodes (No DQ Smackdown 2011)
vs. Kane (ER 2012& I'm pretty sure their No DQ Smackdown 2011 match)

So many of his affairs/feuds just seem one sided to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus said:


> Could one of you guys be a babe and list all the good matches WWE have put out since 'Mania. I've been out of the loop for a while and I would like to catch up before watching Extreme Rules tonight.





Obfuscation said:


> Honorable mentions from WWE this year:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I decided to give you the other list to all of the matches from WWE this year that I've thought were good only not "MOTYC" level good. If you're in the mood to give em a try, by all means do so. Thought this would show you some more matches to spark your interest.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, the Christian match is the biggst one that suffers from it. I've seen it a lot though tbh, not really talking about control wise but when you think about the match and the major spots/memorable moments throughout, it's always Orton delivering the punishment and not taking it. Like all of these:
> 
> vs. Punk (ER 2011)
> vs. Christian (Summerslam 2011)
> ...


I know exactly what you mean but I don't feel that the Punk match suffered from it at all. There were only two 'major' spots I noticed and they are the table RKO (which I didn't even remember taking place until now) and the finish. Hardly one-sided.

That said, I don't know what's happened with Orton since he turned to the Viper in 2007. It seems like he bumps a lot less now and has turned to a more safe style and letting his opponent do the bumping in No DQ matches, specially in the past couple of years. He removed the Crossbody from his arsenal (has he ever done the move ever since entering the WWE Title scene in 2007 other than Wrestlemania XXIV?) and rarely participates in any memorable spots. A complete far cry from the guy who fell into a bunch of thumbtacks or got back-dropped into concrete.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My Top 10 Extreme Rules stuff:

1 - Cena/Lesnar (*****)
2 - Sheamus/Bryan (****3/4)
3 - Punk/Jericho (****1/2)
4 - Cena/Batista (****1/2)
5 - Christian/ADR (****1/4)
6 - Jeff/Edge (****1/4)
7 - Rey/Jericho (****1/4)
8 - Punk/Rey (****)
9 - Miz/Cena/Morrison (***3/4)
10 - Rey/Rhodes (***3/4)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) @ Rhodes/Mysterio making the list. Def MOTN from 2011.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Can't wait to see the ratings on here after ER. I imagine something like:

Ambrose vs. Kingston - *****
Shield vs Hell No - *****1/2

When both are likely going to end up being only decent at best, especially the IC title match. Because, well, Kofi. 
Henry vs. Sheamus is the real show stealer here and the only match in my opinion that has any chance of being great. Looking forward to catching that one later.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Extreme Rules 2012 may very well be one of my five most favorite PPVs ever. GOAT-level event in the GOAT city. I must also be the only person that has all three of the main event level matches last year at *****1/2*. All three were brilliant in their own special way.

Ah dammit, did GOATAntics really leave us? I loved the shoutout he gave to me >_>


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Can't wait to see the ratings on here after ER. I imagine something like:
> 
> Ambrose vs. Kingston - *****
> Shield vs Hell No - *****1/2
> ...


You're so bitter toward people that like the Shield's matches.  I somewhat agree with you, I rate a lot of their 6-mans lower than most (the one with Taker especially) but the Henry/Sheamus comment is kinda ridiculous. You just don't like anyone else on the card I guess.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I finished watching Edge vs Jericho from 2010 in the steel cage. Another good match that I rate ★★★¾. That springboard Codebreaker was :mark:

I do have a few issues such as Jericho looking like he can easily win on numerous occasions but not doing it. For instance, it made no sense for him to walk back in when he was on the steps. Could've won the match and come back in to beat on Edge if that's what he wanted. Also he's hilarious as the crying heel. His whining was just hilarious to watch. That said, I just can't buy into Edge as a face. Plus the "Spear" thing and the retarded set-up just takes the piss. Also Edge with facial hair is just _wrong_. Still some good action and another match WWE.com helped me watch with the use of the awesome proxy IP addresses!

It sucks WWE broke the streak last year as there's been a steel cage match in every Extreme Rules edition except last year.

Orton vs Batista (2009) - ★★¾
Jericho vs Edge (2010) - ★★★¾
Miz vs Morrison vs Cena (2011) - ★★★½
Lesnar vs Hunter (2013) - WE SHALL SEE!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're so bitter toward people that like the Shield's matches.  I somewhat agree with you, I rate a lot of their 6-mans lower than most (the one with Taker especially) but the Henry/Sheamus comment is kinda ridiculous. You just don't like anyone else on the card I guess.


Haha nah, I'm only messing around.  Other than Punk, Shield is my favourite thing going today. I love that the WWE are finally doing something right with a group. But I do think their matches get overrated. Very overrated, actually. I'm obviously exaggerating with what I said above though.

And no, I truly think Henry vs. Sheamus will steal the show. Two of the best in ring workers today. Sheamus works so well with big guys and Henry works well period. But yeah like you said, nothing else on the card spikes my interest. Lesnar/HHH will be another bore and I'm expecting it to end up being the worst trilogy I have ever seen, and I can't imagine Cena vs. Ryback being any good. I'm disappointed Ziggler is off the card because that ladder match could have been something special.

EDIT: Just read Sheamus vs. Henry is a strap match.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahafuck


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So after saying I wasn't going to be ordering the PPV... I'm still not. Will be watching it on TV though as someone else is now paying for it. 

Watched TLC Shield match in preparation for my most anticipated match of the night... Reins and Rollins vs. Bryan and Kane. It being a Tornado Tag should make it almost as fun as the TLC match was.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm really looking forward to Shield walking out tonight with gold. 

Also, I feel like the only acceptable way to end this show is with Brock standing tall. Triple H can then come out the next night and get attacked by someone (Shield plz) and get written off for a while. Evolution reunion plz.

Then Brock probably quits again, or attacks someone else, especially if for some reason he loses.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What's everyone expecting to be the main event tonight? I assumed it would be Cena/Ryback. I prefer the title to close the show, but I guess Brock/HHH could easily close.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ryback cannot main event over Brock/Game. Even Punk/Cena/Show(lolshow) didn't main event over those guys.

I feel very strongly here.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> What's everyone expecting to be the main event tonight? I assumed it would be Cena/Ryback. I prefer the title to close the show, but I guess Brock/HHH could easily close.


The only two individuals with the power to main event over Cena are The Rock and Triple H. So yeah, there's the answer I think.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well no Ryback can't, but JOHN BOY can. We've already seen Brock/HHH twice before so I thought they might take a backseat on this one and let a new feud close.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Well no Ryback can't, but JOHN BOY can. We've already seen Brock/HHH twice before so *I thought they might take a backseat on this one and let a new feud close*.


:HHH2


----------



## Glass Shatters (Jun 14, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> You know what, I am so sick and tired of this forum. 1 - 2 month hiatus is what i need from here and wrestling as a whole. I shouldn't be getting angry at forum members and releasing insults, It's stupid. So i say this to my home, my gateway, my land of peace, I will be gone for awhile but don't be saddened by this loss, cause one day you'll find another Taker match placed at ****3/4 when it only really deserves ****. If you don't believe me, i'm actually logging out this time, and unchecking the "remember me" which i NEVER do.
> 
> SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. Wait, Wait, hold on. Once i come back and IF i find this text quoted on another thread in this forum, I will hunt down the poster and gut him like a fish. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!!!!? Okay, Good. SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. I WILL ALWAYS LOVE ALIENBOUNTYHUNTER, ZEP81, CAL, BEAST INCARNATE, *******, HAYLEY, JACK EVANS, NOSTALGIA, CHOKE2DEATH, OLIVER94, Hohenheim of Light, THE LADY KILLER, FUNNYFACES, DARK CHURCH, CLIQUE, YEAH1993, Srdjan99 AND OF COURSE GAMBLORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. :clap. AND BYE BYE. .
> 
> ...


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> :HHH2


Yeah, what am I thinking?!

unk2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Extreme Rules 2009

**Intercontinental Championship - No Holds Barred
*Rey Mysterio (c) vs. Chris Jericho - ****

Pretty awesome match that I've surprisingly never seen before. Jericho's promo on his way to the ring was great. DON'T TOUCH ME! :lol Rey is absolutely on fire in the first several minutes, hitting countless springboard moves, big dives, and a 619 around the ringpost. Jericho eventually weathers the flurry and gains control and is seemingly obsessed with taking the mask off of Rey along with the IC Title. The sequence where Rey hits the 619 to the back of Jericho's head and he then reverses the springboard move into the codebreaker was MARVELOUS. Had to rewind and watch it again. You kinda forget it's a No Holds Barred match until Jericho brings the chair in after that spot, but everything they did with it was gold. The finish is so awesome, has to be seen to be believed. Great match.

*World Heavyweight Championship - Ladder Match
*Edge (c) vs. Jeff Hardy - **

There was VERY little I liked about this. The spear countered into the twist of fate spot was cool, but really other than that it was loaded with DUMB SHIT or predictable spots. I HATED the spot on the outside where both guys went through the ladder. First off, Jeff set the tall ladder up NOWHERE close to Edge and I can't stand it when both guys shift their weight to one side to tip the ladder over. The finish was creative I guess but Edge acting like he was helpless and had no use of his limbs was pretty stupid. Both guys are capable of much better.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Im always highly interested in seeing how they handle brock after his matches lol. Its always intriguing to see what they come up with to write him off TV. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Im always highly interested in seeing how they handle brock after his matches lol. Its always intriguing to see what they come up with to write him off TV.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


He'll probably just quit again, if they choose to write him off. It's not not like they anyone who can attack him and put him out of action. Even Triple H, because that just prolongs the feud. No one is believable.

On a completely unrelated note, did anyone see this tweet?



> - Following his match with Sin Cara on this week's episode of WWE Superstars, Michael McGillicutty took to his Twitter to rip the masked Superstar. He wrote:
> 
> "Embarrassing! I lost to @TheSinCaraWWE?! Goin to the bar. Not to drink but beat the crap outta any SOB that looks like that piece of garbage... Love Eddie. Sin Cara blows. Go away... For the record, Sin Cara is a big, pudgy pile of horse crap. If he has something to say, Im not hard to find. Ill knock his punk ass out!"
> 
> ...


:lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Surely Punk/Rock RR 13 was TOTALLY a ****+ classic like MANY (not just some) say, right? :vince


Nah, not even close to as bad as the examples I gave.

Edit:


GOATAntics said:


> You know what, I am so sick and tired of this forum. 1 - 2 month hiatus is what i need from here and wrestling as a whole. I shouldn't be getting angry at forum members and releasing insults, It's stupid. So i say this to my home, my gateway, my land of peace, I will be gone for awhile but don't be saddened by this loss, cause one day you'll find another Taker match placed at ****3/4 when it only really deserves ****. If you don't believe me, i'm actually logging out this time, and unchecking the "remember me" which i NEVER do.
> 
> SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. Wait, Wait, hold on. Once i come back and IF i find this text quoted on another thread in this forum, I will hunt down the poster and gut him like a fish. DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME!!!!? Okay, Good. SO NA, NA, NA. GOOD BYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYE. I WILL ALWAYS LOVE ALIENBOUNTYHUNTER, ZEP81, CAL, BEAST INCARNATE, *******, HAYLEY, JACK EVANS, NOSTALGIA, CHOKE2DEATH, OLIVER94, Hohenheim of Light, THE LADY KILLER, FUNNYFACES, DARK CHURCH, CLIQUE, YEAH1993, Srdjan99 AND OF COURSE GAMBLORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. :clap. AND BYE BYE. .


My one fan, gone.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just got in from iron man 3 which was decent at best 4/10 lol but I expect a decent outing from brock/hunter and the #1 contenders match


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> That said, I don't know what's happened with Orton since he turned to the Viper in 2007. It seems like he bumps a lot less now and has turned to a more safe style and letting his opponent do the bumping in No DQ matches, specially in the past couple of years. He removed the Crossbody from his arsenal (has he ever done the move ever since entering the WWE Title scene in 2007 other than Wrestlemania XXIV?) and rarely participates in any memorable spots. A complete far cry from the guy who fell into a bunch of thumbtacks or got back-dropped into concrete.


Likely just to protect his body and keep his career going as long as possible, because Orton's had several concussions I've heard and other injuries.



Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Haha nah, I'm only messing around.  Other than Punk, Shield is my favourite thing going today. I love that the WWE are finally doing something right with a group. But I do think their matches get overrated. Very overrated, actually. I'm obviously exaggerating with what I said above though.
> 
> And no, I truly think Henry vs. Sheamus will steal the show. Two of the best in ring workers today. Sheamus works so well with big guys and Henry works well period. But yeah like you said, nothing else on the card spikes my interest. Lesnar/HHH will be another bore and I'm expecting it to end up being the worst trilogy I have ever seen, and I can't imagine Cena vs. Ryback being any good. *I'm disappointed Ziggler is off the card because that ladder match could have been something special.*
> 
> ...


It was the match I was looking forward to most, and now it's gone. (N) Just to be replaced with a shitty I Quit match between Swagger and Del Rio that I give zero fucks for.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Welp, here are reviews for the first four matches of my Diamond Dallas Page project. I haven't finished writing down all twenty of my reviews, but I do have an order in mind. I will say that my pick for #1 is probably one that very few will have at the top, but I guess that it's better than sticking with status quo. Here we go:

*TOP 20 DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE MATCHES:*

*#20: w/ Chris Benoit vs. Raven/Saturn (2/19/98) *


Spoiler: 20



For the first entry of the project, we have a tag match involving three guys that took part in one of the greatest midcard feuds in mainstream wrestling history. These two teams faced each other twice on television, with this earlier match being the superior one. The question here was whether Page and Benoit could work together against the two strongest Flock members. Our questions were answered quickly when Page and Benoit worked together to prevent the Flock from using the numbers game to their advantage. To the delight of the crowd, DDP and Benoit threw suplexes, DDTs, forearms, and everything else under the sun on Raven and Saturn. 

After this initial flurry of offense from the technicos, the rudos take control thanks to a beautiful Saturn superkick. From here on, it’s FIP 101 with Chris Benoit, who resorts to using a surprise Crossface to get out of a tough situation. Our time with Benoit ends quickly as Page tags in and goes crazy with a superb frenzy of offense from all directions. Unfortunately for Page, the numbers game grounds him just like it did for Benoit, but for the benefit of the viewer, we get to see Page do his awesome FIP impression. Love how he always tries to extend his hand towards Benoit even when he is far away from his corner. As the crowd wills DDP by chanting his name, he finally tags Benoit, but unfortunately the referee’s back is turned to the tag (a spot that I always mark out for in tag matches). 

We cannot forget that this is a Raven match, so weapons are not only welcomed, they’re allowed. As Raven sets up the chair in the middle of the ring, Saturn performs a moonsault (which I never knew that he could do), but DDP dodges in time and tags in the ever-so-intense Benoit. From here on out, it’s aggressive Benoit, but he also has the assistance of a chair. It doesn’t take long for all four men to get in the action, with Page being the last man standing. Once again, the numbers game of the Flock gets the best of Page, who gets caught in the Rings of Saturn. However, Benoit sacrifices himself by hitting the diving headbutt in order to free his partner from the tyranny of Perry. Raven tries to get the Evenflow on Page, but DIAMOND CUTTER OUT OF NOWHERE! Oh my goodness, the first of many to come in this project. Benoit puts on the Crossface on Saturn for the victory. Awesome tag match that everyone will have fun watching. What’s better than two talented faces working together to fight the odds?

Recommended for further viewing: Saturn/Raven vs. DDP/Benoit 3/9/98



*#19: Vs. Kanyon/Jeff Jarrett Superbrawl 01 *


Spoiler: 19



For entry #19, we have two consecutive matches in one night on one PPV in one otherwise awful year for WCW. Thank goodness that even during the darkest times of WCW, Mr. Page still showed a high level of effort.

The first match is with Kanyon, who as we all know, is a close friend of Dallas and a fellow Triad member. These two had lots of fun matches in the late 90s, but none of them really got much time. Jarrett brings Kanyon out as a surprise opponent, and we start with a sneak attack from Kanyon himself. This quickly turns into a brawl outside of the ring with DDP in control for the most part until Kanyon low blows him. Kanyon, who was a great innovator in his own right, performs a diving fameasser on the steel steps and then a unique apron suplex to bring Page back in the ring. Kanyon takes full control while periodically taunting the crowd by doing Page’s Illuminati taunt. For anyone that is not familiar with Kanyon, let it be known that this man has some really good control segments due to all the unique maneuvers he uses on his opponents. Combine that with Page’s selling, crowd interaction, and resilience, we get some entertaining action. Kanyon is dazing Page with his constant offense, but during his state of daze, Page hits a couple beautiful discus lariats to take control. ROCK BOTTOM! Oh my goodness! ALABAMA SLAM! What the hell am I watching? These guys are throwing everything at each other, and because these two know each other so well, they have to pull out some new stuff a la Punk/Cena . We even get to see the Kanyon Cutter. Eventually, Jarrett comes back to the ring and works together with Kanyon to put Page down for the three count.

But wait, Page’s night is not over. After a hilarious post-match Kanyon promo, Jarrett comes back to the ring to finish the job on a battered Page. Page is a bloody mess without any sense of motor skills at this point. Forget about this being a wrestling match, the only way Page can have a chance is if he turns this into a fight. Not only does Page have to fight, but he has to fight dirty. Trash cans, tables, barricades. Everything Page can get his hands on, Page will use to survive. Unfortunately for Page, one chair shot from Jarrett puts him back in control. Even in Jarrett’s hometown, the fans still chant for DDP as he frantically shakes his body around while in a sleeper hold. DDT FROM DDP and both men are down. Ah here we go, Kanyon is back on the scene while Jarrett hits DDP with a painful chairshot. Despite all that is going on, DDP still survives! Here comes the patented Jarrett guitar spot, but MY GOODNESS DDP avoids the guitar as it hits Kanyon. DIAMOND CUTTER OUT OF NOWHERE! A valiant effort from Page leads to a hard-fought victory as well as a perfect example of just how good Diamond Dallas Page is at playing the never-say-die resilient face.

Recommended for further viewing: DDP/Jarrett Spring Stampede 2000, DDP/Mortis 2/12/98




*#18: Vs. Chavo Guerrero Fall Brawl 96*


Spoiler: 18



I know this place hates Chavo Guerrero (and rightfully so), but hear me out. This match will certainly impress you. This is our first entry involving heel DDP, but at this point he was getting some cheers from the crowd. Chavo is a young blue chipper at this point in his career, and he knows that in order for him to have a chance at beating DDP, he has to act quickly. Chavo shows a level of intensity that I wish I saw from him more often when he was in the WWE. Looks like Chavo did his homework as he takes control of DDP in the early part of the match. Although Page starts off in the defensive, he knows that he is the veteran here as he waits for Chavo to make a mistake so that he can take advantage of it. In an unusual turn of events, Page goes to the top of the rope and performs a diving clothesline, possibly to show the Guerreros that he can do anything they can do. 

From here on out we have DDP taking the control of the match while doing his best Mark Henry trash-talking impression. Now it’s Chavo’s turn to find an opportunity to take advantage of a Page mistake. It should be noted that every time DDP does a big move, the crowd celebrates along with him. Eventually Chavo finds the mistake he needs to take advantage of, and gets back on the offensive. However, Guerrero makes a mistake of his own by not pinning the man. As the action moves to the adjacent ring, each of these guys trade offense after capitalizing on each other’s errors. WTF WAS THAT POWERBOMB? God damn, DDP. Chavo’s idiocy as well as his overzealous nature is ultimately the downfall of the man, but he does not go down without a fight. These two told a basic story around the arrogant heel and the opportunistic babyface that try to make the most out of every chance.

Recommended for further viewing: …Well, I guess I’ll recommend you to avoid Chavo Guerrero if you haven’t already. If you want more 1996 DDP goodies, you could check out his matches with Renegade, Mike Enos, and Buff Bagwell.



*#17: Vs. Eddy Guerrero Starrcade 96 *


Spoiler: 17



Here we go, the ending of the DDP/Eddy feud that went through all of 96. Can you believe that these two feuded over a fucking ring? Forget the US Title on the line tonight; these two have fought over a RING from a meaningless competition. 

Eddy (yes, Eddy with a “y”) was more of a pure cruiserweight at this time, so it made sense for him to utilize his quickness and high-flying against DDP to start off the match. Page tries to get this match to the outside and turn it into a brawl, but Eddie brings him back in the ring and grounds him. LOL at Dusty Rhodes admonishing the crowd for chanting “DDP”. These two pull off this really fun spot where they pull each other’s hair in the feeling out process. Eddy feels confident that he can beat Page, which leads Eddy to start throwing punches and brawling with DDP, but this is when Page capitalizes on Guerrero’s mistake and takes control. I think this is the first time I saw someone do a piledriver where the knees of the person performing the piledriver are in the “tombstone” position. 

DDP continues with his domination of Eddy Guerrero (including the ever-so-awesome abdominal stretch w/ hand on rope spot), but he just cannot put Eddy down. Eventually, Page’s frustration is directed to the referee, and now Eddy takes advantage of the situation. The match continues on with each of the combatants trading offensive maneuvers. Page looks like he is about to beat Guerrero, but for some odd reason, he goes to the top rope. Eddy, being the expert high flyer that he is, makes a fool out of DDP who is in unknown territory. The finishing stretch is made up of mostly Page trying to hit big moves while Eddy tries to roll him up for a pin.

Ah darn it, here comes the nWo, and they’re here for DDP. Eddy rolled out of the ring and was completely oblivious to everything going on. As a response to Page rejecting the nWo’s offer earlier, Scott Hall hits DDP with a vicious Outsider’s Edge, which leads to Eddy hitting the frog splash and the victory. Now the nWo is here to attack Guerrero, but Eddy does an awesome job at fending off Nash, Hall, and Syxx. Unfortunately, Eddy succumbs to the numbers as they air a video for the upcoming Souled Out PPV.

Recommended for further viewing: Eddy and Page have a fun match on WCW Worldwide on 11/3/96. They also have a watchable match at Halloween Havoc 96. We never truly got to see these two duke it out where DDP was the face and Eddy was the heel, except on one occasion (6/20/98). This was a really fun match, albeit very short.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great start, funnyfaces. (Y)
It does help my interests to start the project with a match involving Chris Benoit. 

Can't wait till I'm done with all the WWE stuff so I can move on to checking out ol' Nitro and WCW PPVs.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

With all this project talk, I've been thinking about starting a Rhyno project. One of my top favorite workers. I've been watching a bunch of his Smackdown 2003 matches anways so hey why not? :


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Extreme Rules 2009
> 
> **Intercontinental Championship - No Holds Barred
> *Rey Mysterio (c) vs. Chris Jericho - ****
> ...


yea i didnt like this match either, I hate edge with a passion and you put his with another shitty worker and bingo. of topic is there something wrong with the forum or just my browser? the forum isn't loading for me and keeps signing me out when I always put remember me ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> With all this project talk, I've been thinking about starting a Rhyno project. One of my top favorite workers. I've been watching a bunch of his Smackdown 2003 matches anways so hey why not? :


DO IT!  Rhyno has a really good match with Eddie from Smackdown 10/16/03. One of his overall best performances I've personally seen.



redskins25 said:


> yea i didnt like this match either, I hate edge with a passion and you put his with another shitty worker and bingo. of topic is there something wrong with the forum or just my browser? the forum isn't loading for me and keeps signing me out when I always put remember me ?


Workin well for me. (Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I know we're not allowed to share links on the forum for these sort of things, so I was wondering if anyone here would be nice enough to PM/Rep me a link to a good streaming site for Extreme Rules. I've got one website I've used a few times in the past, but I haven't used it in a while and I'm not sure it will be 100% reliable, and it's always good to have a back-up plan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally watched that Swagger vs Del Rio match from 19/4 everyone was talking about. Pretty good match and definitely one of the best from this year. Their best together with some solid arm/leg work by both. ★★★½.

One match I really wanna watch but can't find anywhere is Randy Orton vs Del Rio (2 out of 3 falls) from Raw after Survivor Series. Their FCA match was alright and I enjoyed the HIAC one, so I'm really interested in this one for the Orton project.



Nostalgia said:


> I know we're not allowed to share links on the forum for these sort of things, so I was wondering if anyone here would be nice enough to PM/Rep me a link to a good streaming site for Extreme Rules. I've got one website I've used a few times in the past, but I haven't used it in a while and I'm not sure it will be 100% reliable, and it's always good to have a back-up plan.


You've got one in your rep!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Ordered the PPV. Fucking dying with the cold. I don't know if I'll even make it to 1PM at this stage. Great lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> One match I really wanna watch but can't find anywhere is Randy Orton vs Del Rio (2 out of 3 falls) from Raw after Survivor Series. Their FCA match was alright and I enjoyed the HIAC one, so I'm really interested in this one for the Orton project.


Got ya covered, big boy.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv8h11_wwe-raw-11-19-12-2-3_sport?search_algo=2#.UZlRIMoQNX8



Starbuck said:


> Ordered the PPV. Fucking dying with the cold. I don't know if I'll even make it to 1PM at this stage. Great lol.


1 PM, is late or somethin?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> DO IT!  Rhyno has a really good match with Eddie from Smackdown 10/16/03. One of his overall best performances I've personally seen.


I will.  And yeah, that Eddie/Rhyno match owns. Eddie's heel tactic at the very end of the match gets my every time. Rhyno's match with Funaki on Velocity 03 and his match with Angle on RAW Is War 01 is also quite the gem.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> 1 PM, is late or somethin?


See. I can't even type properly . I was probably one of the only people genuinely looking forward to the show tonight and I'm certain I'll be sleeping pretty soon.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Thanks for the links guys. Reps given to those who helped me out. I now have several options to try out.



Starbuck said:


> Ordered the PPV. Fucking dying with the cold. I don't know if I'll even make it to 1PM at this stage. Great lol.


Well at least you'll have the PPV for a week now that you've ordered it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Nostalgia said:


> Well at least you'll have the PPV for a week now that you've ordered it.


Let's hope that turns out to be a good thing and I'll want to watch it a few times during the week! Gonna set the alarm and try to get some sleep for an hour or so before the show. Enjoy to whoever is watching. 

:brock :heyman

:rollins :ambrose :reigns

:cena5

As always I look forward to the shit storm tomorrow lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Got ya covered, big boy.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv8h11_wwe-raw-11-19-12-2-3_sport?search_algo=2#.UZlRIMoQNX8


Thanks 



Starbuck said:


> Let's hope that turns out to be a good thing and I'll want to watch it a few times during the week! Gonna set the alarm and try to get some sleep for an hour or so before the show. Enjoy to whoever is watching.


You'll probably wake up five hours later, lol. That's a problem I always have where I think to myself I'll get an hour of sleep then I turn off the alarm in the middle of it and wake up several hours after.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Top 20 DDP matches is an AWESOME idea.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Ambrose :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

An easy ****1/2* for Ambrose/Kingston for me. Great little match, loved Ambrose's chickenwing, the double underhook superplex and Kofi's Troudble In Paradise leading to him wanting to get the pin victory rather than the countout. And now Ambrose is DA CHAMP.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

So far:

Jericho/Fandango - ***1/2*
Kofi/Ambrose - *****
Henry/Sheamus ****

:lmao at the people who thought Henry/Sheamus would put on the match of the night. Crap match, crap stipulation. Spent more time browsing on here then paying attention to the match.

Ok show so far.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Didn't expect anything from Henry/Sheamus once it was announced as a strap match. **3/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao

Henry vs. Sheamus sucked, not surprised. Jericho/Fandango have continued to not put on anything great in the ring either.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

My ratings so far:

Jericho vs Fandango: ★★1/2
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston: ★★3/4
Mark Henry vs Sheamus: ★★

All three matches have been okay but nothing stellar for me.

The I Quit match is up next. :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Ratings so far:

Jericho/Fandango : *** 1/2*
Kingston/Ambrose : *****
Sheamus/Henry : ****


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Zeb Colter is absolutely brilliant. Great promo. Shame he has to work with such a shit talent in Swagger, don't care at all for this I Quit match.



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Ratings so far:
> 
> Jericho/Fandango : *** 1/2*
> Kingston/Ambrose : *****
> Sheamus/Henry : ****


Same ratings!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/Fandango : **1/2
Kingston/Ambrose : ***
Sheamus/Henry : *

Edit: This I Quit match has been poor... shame because the ladder match probably would've been great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jericho v. Fandango was OK. I like the Fandango gimmick but I don't like Johnny Curtis. Titus O'Neil should be getting his push anyway

I thought Ambrose v. Kofi was pretty bad. Sloppy offense and missed shit and I didn't think Ambrose looked any good. Kofi is Kofi so he's going to throw crappy shit left and right. Maffew of Botchamania will have a field day with Michael Cole calling Ambrose 'Ambrew'. Is that seriously Ambrose's finisher? Looks like he's tripping over during a headlock. Embarrassing.

Strap match wasn't good either. Directionless, weirdly paced, and they were seemingly setting up for good spots and then just delivering kicks and shit. Henry was selling the shit out of leg, which means either he was selling for no reason or he's fucking injured again. The strap looked weak as hell, like a swimming pool toy. They barely whipped each other and the four corners things was a bad idea, especially with such a small ring. Weird rules (momentum should be stopped...when....he touches him...but not TOUCHES him....) and whatever. 

Divas segment backstage....Tamina Snuka holding a half-eaten banana during it made me laugh like a nut. I'm a fucking arsehole.



Nostalgia said:


> :lmao at the people who thought Henry/Sheamus would put on the match of the night. Crap match, crap stipulation. Spent more time browsing on here then paying attention to the match.


they've had really good matches before so IDK why it's funny.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Chioda is annoying as hell in this match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> they've had really good matches before so IDK why it's funny.


It's funny because people in this thread were hyping it up like their match was going to be the saving grace of the PPV, and not only didn't it live up to that hype, it bombed.

Even before the stipulation was announced, I knew it wasn't going to be anything great. Their matches before weren't great imo. While I don't mind the guy, I don't get the big love for Henry on here, and I think he's overrated a bit on here. Just because it was Mark Henry involved people on here were expecting big things... and we got a shit match.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

This replay crap is hilarious :lmao


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Swagger/Del Rio **1/2*

Fuck that match. One of worst, most underwhelming I Quit matches I've seen. This PPV is going downhill fast.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow, so that finish (both of them) were pretty bad but I really loved the match before any towel was brought in to play. Refreshingly good stuff.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

That was worse than Miz/Cena imo.


----------



## Alchemind (Apr 18, 2013)

Ryback is being interviewed. *Inserts cue cards*


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No one else liked the Ambrose match as much as me it seems, I thought for a 5 minute bout it was great. Both men came out looking good IMO. Might change on re watch though.

Ratings so far:

Jericho/Fandango - **** (The finish saved this. Even though we've seen it before I still like it, but the rest of this match was just poor.)
Ambrose/Kofi - ****1/2*
Henry/Sheamus - **3/4*
Del Rio/Swagger - **1/2*

Fuck that I quit match, the ending especially. The referee coming down and claiming he saw the mistake in the back is just retarded, why doesn't that happen for every screwy finish then? Urgh.


----------



## all in all... (Nov 21, 2010)

.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The restarting of the Del Rio/Swagger was fucking stupid. Not to mention the finish. Ugh. fpalm


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I thought the action was kinda good until the abrupt ending. What a horrible ending.

Tornado Tag up now :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah most of the match was ok, but the awful ending dropped my rating significantly.

As long as The Shield win the tag titles here I'll be happy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/Fandango : **1/2
Kingston/Ambrose : ***
Sheamus/Henry : *
Del Rio/Swagger : 1/4*

Oh god, didn't think it was going to get worse than Sheamus/Henry, and it did. But certainly Swagger/Del Rio HAS to be to the low point!

WOOOO! Shield, Bryan, and Kane to save the show... I hope.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I thought the action was kinda good until the abrupt ending.


Same here. I was actually enjoying it but the match restarting completely killed the flow of the match.


----------



## Alchemind (Apr 18, 2013)

Im calling the Shield winning, and either tonight or shortly after either Daniel Bryan or Kane will turn on each other in hopes for a match next PPV. Its about time Daniel Bryan goes back into singles competition.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> No one else liked the Ambrose match as much as me it seems, I thought for a 5 minute bout it was great. Both men came out looking good IMO. Might change on re watch though.


I gave it *****. Quite enjoyed it myself and it's my highest rated match so far. Thought it was fun, back-and-forth bout and Ambrose winning the US Title was cool. 

This tornado tag now should be good. (Y)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Alchemind said:


> Im calling the Shield winning, and either tonight or shortly after either Daniel Bryan or Kane will turn on each other in hopes for a match next PPV. Its about time Daniel Bryan goes back into singles competition.


I want to see that to but Bryan wants to stay with Kane for as long as possible. He said he won't get as much air time without him so i'm pessimistic about them splitting up. hopefully he doesn't fade into obscurity afterwards.


----------



## Alchemind (Apr 18, 2013)

These matches ... yikes. Im not even sure what that was suppose to be as a finisher off the top rope.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ Rollins hit a knee drop.

I Quit Match > Tornado Tag. Yeah, come at me.

This ppv has been pretty disappointing thus far.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Shield with all the gold! :mark:

***** for the tornado tag, it didn't allow for a typical Shield control segment but that freshened it up IMO. Nice finish too.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I Quit Match > Tornado Tag. Yeah, come at me.
> 
> This ppv has been pretty disappointing thus far.


Really?! (on the I Quit match not the PPV being disappointing)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Does anyone have a rating for the Miz/Rhodes match? I didn't catch it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

***3/4* for the Tornado Tag. That double team maneuver to finish was sick.

Good to see The Shield with all the belts. 

:lmao At Wade Barrett doing commentary for the post-show, your IC Champion people.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/Fandango : **1/2
Kingston/Ambrose : ***
Sheamus/Henry : *
Del Rio/Swagger : 1/4*
Tornado Tag: ***1/4

Greeeeeeeeaaaaaaat event so far!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Really?! (on the I Quit match not the PPV being disappointing)


Yeah, I can already tell I'll be its biggest advocate but there was really nothing to dislike until the finish. My full review later will go into more detail but I thought it was a huge improvement over what I thought was gonna be another slow paced match from the two with a lot of limbwork. Good stuff imo.

:lmao at Randy's dumb looking face during his entrance.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

**** 1/4* for the Shield/Team Hell No. 

I really enjoyed this my current MOTN, would of enjoyed this getting a few more minutes. 

Shield with all the gold :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

This thread > Extreme Rules discussion thread

Orton/Show now. Yawn. Yet another match tonight I give zero fucks for. :side:


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

What was so horrible about the i quit match beside the finish? I thought it was a pretty average match actually.
Anyways, my rates: 
Jericho/Fandango: OK match, too sloppy at times. ***1/2*
Ambrose/Kingston: Decent match, loved the finished. ***3/4*
Henry/Sheamus: Meh. ***
Rio/Swagger: OK match until finish. ***1/4*
Tornado Tag: Good match but way too short. *****

Pretty Meh PPV so far


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Orton/Show match sucked hard, not that I was expecting much better. And the damn punt kick is back. **1/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey Choke2Death, you online right now? Another Orton burial match. hahaha. Big Show got a spear!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

***1/4* for Orton/Show. Better than I expected, some nice spots such as Big Show's failed splash onto the ladder and Big Show kicking out of a setup RKO. Finish was ok, good to see the Punt again I guess, I thought it was banned.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I felt the ladder spot was way too obvious. 

Calling it now - the Ryback/Cena match will actually be good. Nothing unbelievable, but a solid rating.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well apparently Lesnar & Trips is gonna go like 30 minutes... not sure if I should be excited about that or not. Don't give two fucks about Cena/Ryback so if it delivers past my low expectations I'll be happy. (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/Fandango : **1/2
Kingston/Ambrose : ***
Sheamus/Henry : *
Del Rio/Swagger : 1/4*
Tornado Tag: ***1/4
Show/Orton: **


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Very disappointing show thus far. Usually I would expect the main events to deliver, but I doubt it considering what matches they are.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I felt the ladder spot was way too obvious.
> 
> Calling it now - the Ryback/Cena match will actually be good. Nothing unbelievable, but a solid rating.


It was. But seeing Big Show's huge fat frame falling on that ladder was funny. 

Yeah, I don't think Cena/Ryback will be as bad as people are thinking it will be. Reckon it will be fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PPV so far:

Jericho vs Fandango - ★★¾
Ambrose vs Kingston - Was in the kitchen
Sheamus vs Henry - ★★½
Del Rio vs Swagger - ★★¾
Shield vs Hell No - Used the bathroom and by the time I was back, this was over 
Orton vs Show - ★★★¼ (Enjoyed this although it should've been better and more 'extreme'. Marked for the punt, though!)

Now it's up to the main events to deliver and make this memorable. I'm off for now because I need some sleep as I'll start school early.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Calling it now - the Ryback/Cena match will actually be good. Nothing unbelievable, but a solid rating.


i think it will be motn but that's not exactly going to be a compliment.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Swagger/Del Rio was pretty cool....for a while. Swagger countering the cross-armbreaker with a microphone to the head was great. The problem with these I Quit matches is you see the over-acting up close with the microphone and shit. I couldn't care less about the restarts and given that the match wasn't too good.

Tornado tag was fun. I know people cream over Ambrose, but Reigns is easily my favourite Shield guy. Great powerful offense and 'YOU TRY TO BREAK MAH ARM? I'MMA BREAK YO' FACE'. Rollins sold Kane's crappy top rope clothesline better than most and the jumping knee to stop Kane from chokeslamming Reigns was great. I didn't think this was of terribly great quality or anything but it'll probably be MOTN.

Show/Orton was a mix between good and boring. IDK, it was fine overall, but I have little specific to say. Ugggh @ Orton's fish face before the punt. This is getting good talk at some other places so I may watch it again in five years.

LMS isn't doing much for me. Ryback no selling Cena's bulldog was garbage and it feels like the most average possible Cena v. Monster match. It hasn't finished yet but whatever, IDC.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Who the fuck is booking these finishes? Completely ridiculous.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Ryback vs. John Cena was good. But that ending...man, just Ryback his title.

I know what they're trying to do but still.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Well that was a strange ending. Not sure what rating I'd give the match, thought it was entertaining enough though. Some interesting stuff in the crowd.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/Fandango : **1/2
Kingston/Ambrose : ***
Sheamus/Henry : *
Del Rio/Swagger : 1/4*
Tornado Tag: ***1/4
Show/Orton: **
Cena/Ryback: ***


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I was expecting a finish like that. They obviously don't want Cena to lose the title yet, and they don't want to damage Ryback any further than they've done already. Expected a double count or something, but a no-contest is just the same really. Despite the predictable ending, it still brings down things a bit for me, thought the match was decent for the most part though. There was some good stuff in it imo. *****


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm considering turning this shit off before Lesnar/HHH. It'll probably get 40 minutes.

The best part of the show was when I listened to Surfin' USA during the opening video package and for whatever reason it fit. It was tremendous. I should listen to a silly song every PPV open package. Then again I have zero interest in watching WWE PPVs right now.

Best part of the REAL show was pre-Swagger/Rio. A WWE PPV in 2013 and the best part of the show is Dutch Mantel. Go figure.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Is it just me or have the refs counts in LMS matches got quicker? Ryback seemed like he had to get up really quickly after some big moves.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Don't know how to feel about the Cena/Ryback match, I predicted a double count out. I thought it was entertaining throughout and liked parts of it but the ending didnt do much for me. Obviously they wanted to protect both guys, ill probs throw ***** like everyone else has as well.


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

Cena/Ryback was a solid match. Wish they would've just gave Ryback the belt, but whatever. *****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm considering turning this shit off before Lesnar/HHH. It'll probably get 40 minutes.
> 
> The best part of the show was when I listened to Surfin' USA during the opening video package and for whatever reason it fit. It was tremendous. I should listen to a silly song every PPV open package. Then again I have zero interest in watching WWE PPVs right now.
> 
> *Best part of the REAL show was pre-Swagger/Rio*. A WWE PPV in 2013 and the best part of the show is Dutch Mantel. Go figure.


Glad someone's on the same page as me on that. (Y) And yeah, Reigns is my favorite Shield member as well. In fact I'll take Rollins over Ambrose too...


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

With all those panels now on the new cage design, surely someone is going through one of them.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm considering turning this shit off before Lesnar/HHH. It'll probably get 40 minutes.
> 
> The best part of the show was when I listened to Surfin' USA during the opening video package and for whatever reason it fit. It was tremendous. I should listen to a silly song every PPV open package. Then again I have zero interest in watching WWE PPVs right now.
> 
> Best part of the REAL show was pre-Swagger/Rio. A WWE PPV in 2013 and the best part of the show is Dutch Mantel. Go figure.


I've been thinking of doing that. It's nearly 3:30am in the UK here, and I'm real tired. I'll try to stick through it. 

Zeb's promo was great, definitely one of the best things of the show.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brock's selling is awesome :lmao


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Brock's selling is awesome :lmao


Too bad he's the one person on the roster who should be no selling shit.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Triple H with the sharpshooter :mark:

Bret Hart would of gave it 4/10 :lmao


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Lesnar wins! :cheer


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Fucking loved that match, definitely the best of their series. Brock's selling was phenomenal, and the awesome exchanges between he and Heyman were great. HHH using the Sharpshooter :lol The camouflaged sledgehammer :mark: *****1/4 *


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That was fucking awesome :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

***1/2* for HHH/Lesnar. Pretty dull match that lasted too long. There's some good and at times hilarous selling from Lesnar, good to see figure of four from Triple H, better than the fucking Miz using it, and the Heyman involvement was fun. Finish was kind of obvious after the low blow, Brock winning is good. Thankfully this feud can be over with now. 

Overall I'd give the PPV a 5 out of 10. Underwhelming to average matches mostly, no real great matches, big letdown from last years show. Glad I didn't buy this PPV, kind of feel like I wasted my time just streaming it. Other than The Shield's wins, there was nothing really memorable from this PPV.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

AWESOME LESNAR WINS IM MARKING OUT BRO


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll have to rewatch it later in the week, but yeah, I didn't like the main event much at all. Lesnar's selling was fine, but he shouldn't have been the one selling a knee injury.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Disagree on the thoughts that Lesnar shouldn't be selling the knee injury. I think it makes him look even stronger that he was able to win and fight through the clear pain. A little help from Heyman yes, but still he looked strong. "That's my manager" :lol


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

yeah the whole thing looked like Triple H wanted to be the heel and face at once

that smile on his face when he got the sledgehammer, that screamed 2004 giant dick Triple H

btw, anyone notice his running gimmick of stashing sledgehammers in places? first vs orton in the 3 stages of hell, and now this!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jericho/Fandango : **1/2
Kingston/Ambrose : ***
Sheamus/Henry : *
Del Rio/Swagger : 1/4*
Tornado Tag: ***1/4
Show/Orton: **
Cena/Ryback: ***
Lesnar/HHH: ***

Lesnar/HHH Summerslam is still their best, but this match was good and a big step above their Mania match. Like the Summerslam match, Lesnar's selling made the match. I legit thought he was hurt until he started yelling at Heyman about the injury, but that's due to the fact I know if he did get legit injured, Heyman would probably be the last thing on his mind. The big problem is even in winning, Lesnar still got punked out by HHH for most that match (even before the knee "injury"). Lesnar not tapping sort of helped him save face, but it still took Heyman helping on multiple occasions to get Brock the win. Ridiculous.

The sledgehammer was put over very well though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It made sense. It was a throwback to HHH exploiting the weakness (stomach) from the Summerlsam match with Brock prevailing.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

so lesnar gets stronger the more you try to hurt him?

my god


----------



## darkclaudio (Feb 29, 2012)

Extreme Rules Review
Chris Jericho vs Fandango **1/2
US Championship Match: Kofi Kingston (c) vs Dean Ambrose **1/4
Sheamus vs Mark Henry **
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger ***
Tag Team Championship Match: Kane & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield **3/4
The Big Show vs Randy Orton **3/4
WWE Championship Match: John Cena (c) vs Ryback ***1/4
Steel Cage Match: Brock Lesnar vs Triple H ***1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Disagree on the thoughts that Lesnar shouldn't be selling the knee injury. I think it makes him look even stronger that he was able to win and fight through the clear pain. A little help from Heyman yes, but still he looked strong. "That's my manager" :lol


Not the fact that he actually WAS selling it, the match itself just shouldn't have been booked that way. The heel shouldn't be selling an injury and trying to garnish sympathy from the crowd, it's just wrestling 101 imo. No wonder the crowd was so dead.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

main event was OK, and Lesnar's selling was good for a wrestler, but I didn't really think it was good for a monster. I said a few days ago that I'd prefer Heyman not be involved with Lesnar, and this is a pretty good example of why. 'my knee, Paul' 'that's my manager'....last year at the same PPV he was the Earth's biggest badass, and this year he came off kind of whiny. I didn't like how he was doing the 'shake hands' begging off thing when Trip put the figure four on either. I think Lesnar kind of carried the match with his selling but he shouldn't be working as a vulnerable guy.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

it was the typical wwe cage match

it made no sense


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

THAT'S MY MANAGER

I loved the main event, and I was afraid after Triple H hit pedigrees on Heyman then Lesnar that it was over. I was still kind of surprised that Brock won, but happy nonetheless. This was the right ending, and hopefully this feud is done. 

I actually enjoyed Cena/Ryback, and the finish was actually pretty good in that it kept Ryback looking strong, as he didn't lose. There will likely be a rematch at Payback, where honestly the outcome is unpredictable. 

SHIELD ALL WALKED OUT WITH GOLD. Enough said there.

Not a great show, but pretty good I thought. Came nowhere close to last year's show, but it would have been difficult to do so. Missed Jericho/Fandango, and Henry/Sheamus and Orton/Show were both meh.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

My ratings for all the matches:

Jericho vs Fandango ***1/2*
Kofi vs Ambrose *****
Henry vs Sheamus ****
Del Rio vs Swagger **1/2*
Team Hell No vs Reigns/Rollins ***3/4*
Cena vs Ryback *****
Triple H vs Lesnar ***1/2*

Compare this show to Extreme Rules 2012 when we got 3 *****+* and this show pales in comparison.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I see what you both (JOAL and Yeah) are saying.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Not the fact that he actually WAS selling it, the match itself just shouldn't have been booked that way. The heel shouldn't be selling an injury and trying to garnish sympathy from the crowd, it's just wrestling 101 imo. No wonder the crowd was so dead.


That's fair, but I think the point of the injury was so that Lesnar had a weakness that HHH could now exploit. The point being that on level terms one on one inside a cage with no weapons, Lesnar has HHH beat. But with Lesnar picking up an injury HHH is on his level. Hence why I thought it made Lesnar look strong. HHH could only get on top when Lesnar wasn't 100%. Though obviously the Heyman stuff clouded that a little.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Extreme Rules 2013

*Chris Jericho vs. Fandango - ** 1/4

*United States Championship
*Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Dean Ambrose - ** 3/4

*Strap Match
*Sheamus vs. Mark Henry - **

*#1 Contender's I Quit Match*
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger - *** 1/2

*WWE Tag Team Championship - Tornado Rules
*Team Hell No (c) vs. The Shield (Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins) - ***

*Extreme Rules Match
*Randy Orton vs. Big Show - ** 1/2

*WWE Championship - Last Man Standing
*John Cena (c) vs. Ryback - ***

*Steel Cage Match
*Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar - ** 1/2


*Overall: 6/10*


- *Jericho/Fandango* was pretty basic, in fact I'd say Fandango's fancy entrance was more memorable than the match. Finish spot was pretty cool though. *Kofi/Ambrose* was better than expected. Nice top rope butterfly suplex spot & the trouble in paradise while Dean falls to the outside was a nice touch. Just please give this guy a new finisher. Shield celebrating with the title. :mark: *Sheamus vs. Henry* sucked, there's no getting around it. The fuck is up with that tan strap? Thing looks like it's made out of nylon.

- I may be in the minority (I guess we'll see) but I thought 95% of the I Quit match was refreshingly great. I was afraid we'd get a really slow paced match with a lot of limb work, which would've been fine but we've already seen that with these guys, so instead they just went full speed from the bell. Del Rio's suicide dives are always so pretty. Loved everything they did with the kendo stick & Swagger's desperation mic shot was pretty awesome. Sounds from Del Rio's kicks echoed really well since the crowd was so dead.  I thought everything was going super well up until the overbooked, stupid finish. Even after they restarted it I was still disgusted by seeing Swagger tapout YET AGAIN. Ugh... Hope we get the 3-way Ladder match at Payback.

- Tornado tag was fun but that's really as far as it goes. DEFINITELY suffered from card placement and was far too short to be anything special. It also amazes me how over Daniel Bryan & Kane still are and how no one cared when these Shield guys won gold, but they went nuts when Ambrose was victorious. Rushed match imo.

- Randy Orton can just gtfo here now. Another burial of an opponent and that ladder spot was HILARIOUSLY predictable.

- Cena vs. Ryback was just a relatively strange match. I'm pretty surprised by how much I enjoyed Ryback's performance. He just looked like a natural heel monster hitting the big power moves and taunting the crowd, which is a shame considering he's not really good at anything else. No sell of the bulldog early on was an annoyance. The fuck is up with Cena doing these newish moves? That first... ( reverse sleeper?) was incredibly weird and no one knew how to react to it and oh my god that transition into the sleeper on the outside was sloppy. And that "splash" through the table? UGLY. Don't even get me started on that finish either. It actually LOOKED great, but are you fucking kidding me at the way Cena landed? Ridiculous. And Cole/Lawler saying it went too far? My ass.

- Lesnar/Trips was buckets of meh. Lesnar shouldn;t have had to sell a leg injury like I've said, it just makes no sense for the heel to sell things and try to garnish sympathy from the crowd. The submission spots were fine but what's the crowd supposed to do? Cheer in hopes that Brock would tap? Nope, just sit in silence as Brock escapes. The camouflaged sledgehammer was cool bbut I just didn't really care about the match at that point. I'll rewatch it later this week. Mania encounter was MUCH better imo. Pretty weak ppv.​


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

im gonna go watch Undertaker vs Lesnar HIAC

i know both guys stopped giving a fuck in the finishing stretch, but who cares, its frigging AWESOME


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jericho/Fandango - **** 
Ambrose/Kofi - ****1/2*
Henry/Sheamus - **3/4*
Del Rio/Swagger - **1/2*
Shield/HellNo - *****
Orton/Show - **1/4*
Cena/Ryback - *****
HHH/Lesnar - *****1/4*

Will write some more tomorrow, but I thought the show was ok. Pretty hit and miss. Loved the main event and The Shield matches, most other stuff sucked. Cena/Ryback was entertaining enough and I'm actually looking forward to watching another encounter between the two.

PPV RATING - 6.5/10


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho vs Fandango ***1/2*
Kofi vs Ambrose *****
Henry vs Sheamus ****
Del Rio vs Swagger ***3/4*
Team Hell No vs Reigns/Rollins ****1/4*
Cena vs Ryback ****1/2*
Triple H vs Lesnar ****1/2*

I was actually a big fan of Cena/Ryback. Reminded me of Batista/Undertaker.

EDIT: Ah, forgot Orton/Big Show. ***3/4* for that. Couldn't care less about the first half, but the ending was good. Well, time to wash off this foul taste in my mouth with some DDP!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Ambrose vs Kofi sounds REALLY interesting

im willing to be it was unconventional and crazy as hell, right?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*First Take*
*Extreme Rules 2013*

Jericho vs Fandango - *** 1/4*
Kingston vs Ambrose - ***** 
Sheamus vs Henry - ****
Del rio vs Swagger - *** 1/2*
Team Hell No vs The Shield - **** 1/4*
Orton vs Big Show - *** 1/2*
Cena vs Ryback - *****
Brock vs HHH - **** 1/2*

PPV Rating - 6/10


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OH MY GOD, I completely forgot to mention, did anyone see the video for Payback? HOLY SHIT that was hilarious. Randy Orton!? What's he getting payback for? :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah short and sweet. @JOAL


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> OH MY GOD, I completely forgot to mention, did anyone see the video for Payback? HOLY SHIT that was hilarious. Randy Orton!? What's he getting payback for? :lol


The creative team for giving him umpteen filler feuds? :lol


----------



## Mqwar (Jun 16, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Not the fact that he actually WAS selling it, the match itself just shouldn't have been booked that way. The heel shouldn't be selling an injury and trying to garnish sympathy from the crowd, it's just wrestling 101 imo. No wonder the crowd was so dead.


Who said Lesnar was trying to garner sympathy in the first place? It was a weak spot the babyface was trying to exploit in order to win since Lesnar is such a unstoppable beast unlike any other typical WWE heel. If we're thinking wrestling 101 then the babyface shouldn't be made to look so weak either and certainly not using low blows and his best friends' help to win the match. Lesnar looked strong and went over clean finishing off HHH with his own sledgehammer gimmick to end the match and the feud. You can't ask for more honestly, Lesnar probably won't even get half of this if it was in a match with the Rock or Taker.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Mqwar said:


> Who said Lesnar was trying to garner sympathy in the first place? It was a weak spot the babyface was trying to exploit in order to win since Lesnar is such a unstoppable beast unlike any other typical WWE heel. If we're thinking wrestling 101 then the babyface shouldn't be made to look so weak either and certainly not using low blows and his best friends' help to win the match. Lesnar looked strong and went over clean finishing off HHH with his own sledgehammer gimmick to end the match and the feud. You can't ask for more honestly, Lesnar probably won't even get half of this if it was in a match with the Rock or Taker.


I'm not saying he was garnishing sympathy from the crowd, that just something that comes along with selling an injured body part for a duration of a match and one of the main reasons you almost NEVER see a heel having to do it. Normally they're the ones that exploit the injury and the babyface makes the big comeback. It just wasn't how I would've booked it at all. And like someone else said, Brock was taking gloves off and kicking ass and winning clean last year, now he's whining to Heyman about his injured knee and how much help he needs. I just didn't see Brock looking NEARLY as strong in victory tonight as he did in a loss at Wrestlemania, where he had to be put down with steel steps, a sledgehammer, and a pedigree. And on the Triple H comment, he's not your squeaky clean babyface, we all know this. Using a low blow was fine. This was a fight, as all of their matches have been. If it was John Cena using a low blow, then yeah, I'd see the problem.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Vs Triple H pretty much saved the entire show for me at a first glance. I mean, Ambrose got a nice little match out of Kofi & Shield Vs Hell No was excellent for the time it was given, but I felt that Cena Vs Ryback & Del Rio Vs Swagger weren't good at all, with Show-Orton/Henry-Sheamus/Jericho-Fandango all falling in that neutral category. Felt that Triple H jumping Lesnar before the match was an awesome touch as the two titans threw bombs at each other the entire match. Brock's selling was on point as per usual as he turned out another MOTN performance as seemingly only he can do, while I felt Triple H played the valiant babyface much better here than at Wrestlemania. Loved the chrome sledgehammer and the explosiveness shown by both men throughout the entire match. Not as good as the Summerslam match at first glance, but definitely better than Mania by a little bit.

STARZ

Jericho/Fandango - ****
Kofi/Ambrose - *****
Henry/Sheamus - *** 1/4*
Del Rio/Swagger - ** 1/2*
Hell No/Shield - **** 1/4*
Orton/Show - ****
Cena/Ryback - ** 1/2*
HHH/BROCK - ******

OH, & I sincerely hope that they aren't going to run a Ryback/Cena & Dolph/Orton 'double main event' at Payback. That would be QUITE the joke.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Should I even bother?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch Brock/Hunter for BROCK, but nothing else really jumps off the page as being excellent. Shield was great as always but short as fuck so I think you should check that out as well.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Should I even bother?


No. Brock/HHH was pretty long and boring. The crowd was awful. Even when Brock hit the F-5 to win the crowd barely had any reaction.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Both Shield matches are great, but far too short. If you enjoy the Brock/HHH matches I would give that a watch as well. 

Shield with all the gold is what I'll remember from this show :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

See ya until Payback, WWE (maybe).


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Alim's Snowflakes for Extreme Rules 2013 w/ Comments*

Fandango/Jericho - ****1/4*
Ambrose/Kofi - *****
Sheamus/Henry - **1/2*
ADR/Swagger - *1/2**
Shield/Hell No - ****
Show/Orton - ***
Cena/Ryback - ****1/2*
HHH/Lesnar - ***1/4*

- I saw Jericho/Fandango opening the show from a mile away, but I thought it being the first match was kind of funny because the show was called EXTREME RULES, yet this match was one of the two that didn't have a stipulation. Good match though. Jericho got his win back while Fandango still looked strong. Hopefully this will be the end of this feud so that both men can move onto other things.

- Ambrose/Kofi was solid as expected. Kofi is one of my favorites and he made Ambrose look really good here. Ambrose pulled off some moves we don't really see anymore like the Crossface Chickenwing and the Butterfly Suplex. Unique finish where Kofi played the excellent babyface role of trying to win the match "fairly" which ultimately cost him.

- Henry/Sheamus was a huge disappointment. What the hell is up with that "strap"? It looked like one of those slings you put your arm in when you break it or something. They didn't even utilize it much as a weapon. Shame because this match had some potential to be a sleeper MOTN.

- I Quit Match was awful. Why was there a video replay? We've never had that before, so why start now? The match made little sense and the finish was stupid too. Swagger has the Ankle Lock locked in for what seems like a hour and Del Rio has the armbar in for about 5 seconds and has Swagger screaming like a little girl. No cool spots, nothing interesting. Just bland, bland, bland. Dead crowd to boot.

- Tag Team match was good for what it was. Could have been better if it got more time, but oh well. At least now, hopefully, Bryan and Kane can go back to doing their own things. Also, does it piss anyone else off that they kept referring to the match as a TORNADO match instead of a TORNADO TAG TEAM match? It sounded stupid as hell.

- Orton/Show was another letdown, the biggest of the night. Practically no use of weapons in an EXTREME RULES match, where weapons are not only legal, but ENCOURAGED. Usually you can count on Big Show to deliver a good match, but this was bad. Orton didn't even bother putting on a good show for his hometown fans. Not to mention that the dreaded punt kick is back.

- Cena/Ryback was surprisingly good and match of the night. I liked Ryback's control segment in the match. We saw some cool new moves that he hadn't done before and played the crowd really well. Cena's powerbomb was a nice move too. But Cena's lack of selling of his Achilles tendon really hurt his performance. Surely I was expecting Ryback to target the injury a bit more. No announce table spot either. It started off in the ring, but later made it's way into the crowd which gave it that Attitude Era brawl feel which was nice. The finish was lame as fuck though. I understand that they wanted to continue the fued, but it was stupid and unnecessarily put over the top by the commentators who sounded like someone had died.

- Surprise surprise, Brock Lesnar and Triple H put on another stinker. Can this abomination end already? Please? Lesnar is being wasted. No one fucking cares about this feud which has been going on for over a year now. Lesnar looked like a fucking pussy with his over the top selling of the knee. He may as well have sucked Hunter's dick while he was at it. Foley's post-show comments make it seem like there's going to be a fourth match between the two and if that's the case.... I'm just going to leave it at that.

*Overall show rating: 5/10*


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I would give this ppv a 3/10. There was nothing worth watching again. There were only three matches that were **1/2+. Everything was predictable and despite being totally predictable the booking was really poor, especially in the Cena/Ryback match. Also, in the Cena match I hated that Ryback never went after Cena's ankle making the lead up to this worthless and CENA NO SOLD HIS ANKLE JUST GETTING IN THE RING BOUNCING OFF THE FUCKING ROPES LIKE USUAL, JBL tried to excuse this but lol, Cena just totally blows and only knows his ridiculous routine. Lesnar still looked like a bitch while going over and HHH had to close the show with his music.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched it with some friends. Got some beers/chicken/pizza and had a really good time. Show was good enough.

Jericho/Fandango - ***1/2
Kofi/Ambrose - **3/4
Henry/Sheamus - DUD
Swagger/Del Rio - **1/4
Shield/Bryan & Kane - **1/2
Orton/Show - 3/4*
Cena/Ryback - ***3/4
Trips/Lesnar - **1/2

- Really dug Jericho/Fandango. Fun match and Jericho made Fandango look good, even though he lost.

- Ambrose looked good out there, same with Rollins/Reigns. Both had perfectly acceptable matches.

- Strap match was fucking terrible. A regular match would have been perfect here. Instead they get a lame stipulation.

- Orton/Show happened.

- Cena/Ryback was actually real interesting. Lots of times I expected Ryback to be down and I was impressed he lasted. Ending was meh though.

- Didn't care too much for the main event. The feud just doesn't interest me that much.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Brock's selling is awesome :lmao


My goodness from his selling at Summer Slam and the selling at ER, I really think the dude is in legit pain and can't continue. "PAUL, MY KNEE" :lmao

Surprised people gave Fandango vs Jericho a considerable rating when they were botching up a storm and stiffing each other. Only thing in that match that stood out imo was the end spot by Jericho.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Botches mean very little to me. It still baffles me how low people rate matches sometimes because of small, insignificant botches. I was invested in what they were putting out, so I barely noticed any bad botches.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho vs. Fandango - *** (Solid, fun opener, much better than their WM match)
Kofi vs. Ambrose - **3/4 (Really marked out when he won)
Henry vs. Sheamus - *1/2 (I enjoyed it but not much of a match)
Swagger vs. Del Rio - *** (I feel like on of very few who enjoyed this despite the finish)
The Shield vs. Hell No - **1/2 (Could have done with more time but it was excellent while it lasted)
Orton vs. Show - **1/2 (Fun match)
Cena vs. Ryback - ***1/2 (Pretty good match. I was expecting it be worse. The finish hurt it a bit)
HHH vs. Lesnar - **** (Enjoyed this match a lot. Great psychology, selling and storytelling throughout)

7/10


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Question for y'all:

Right after a PPV, what do you guys dwell on more, the match quality itself or the outcomes?

For me it's more of me wondering what matches I plan on watching again in the future, rather than where they're going with the storylines.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I spend a little bit of time wondering what we'll be seeing at the next few PPVs and what will happen on the next Raw. But not very much. I spend a lot more time thinking about the quality of the matches.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Storylines usually as I rarely rewatch matches anyway.

Also, Cena is getting infuriating on Angle-esque levels by now.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Brye said:


> Botches mean very little to me. It still baffles me how low people rate matches sometimes because of small, insignificant botches. I was invested in what they were putting out, so I barely noticed any bad botches.


I figure if the same exact match happened with someone who wasn't as popular as Jericho, it wouldn't have got the same considerable rating. It didn't seem like they were clicking all that much tbh. Of course Jericho isn't gonna catch every beat but at one point in the match Jericho seemed pissed and almost knocked Fandago's lights out. Imo, I don't like to worry if the next spot is gonna be a crash, I just like an easy flowing match. Crowd loved, it wasn't horrendous, but I just don't see what stood out quite much about it.

I also don't think Sheamus vs Henry should have dragged on so long, and Henry can barely move these days. Unless he was BOSS selling like Brock, he seemed to be in quite a bit of agony bit down the line in the match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cena didn't main event, holy shit.



JOAL.com said:


> im gonna go watch Undertaker vs Lesnar HIAC
> 
> i know both guys stopped giving a fuck in the finishing stretch, but who cares, its frigging AWESOME


You mean like in Angle/Benoit? :heskeymania


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

NO, THAT IS NOT ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES

seriously though i could only see it once, and really didnt care either way. the no selling didnt really bother me. neither did the moonsault. I was just indifferent to the entire match

same goes with their royal rumble match. for some reason every time they wrestle, i find myself utterly not caring


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Miz vs Rhodes - DUD

Jericho vs Fandango - **

Ambrose vs Kingston - *1/2

Sheamus vs Henry - ***

Swagger vs Del Rio - *** _(LOL @ the crappy finish. Wow. It hurt the match; which was awesome & brutal till the outlandish finish.)_

Hell No vs Shield - **

Big Show vs Orton - 3/4*

Cena vs Ryback - ***1/2

Brock vs Triple H - *3/4

This show sucked. Some great results though.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i disliked swagger/Del Rio

clusterfuckness of the ending and constantly asking reminded me too much of Bret/Backlund

both times

which I am not a big fan of


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm too busy being baffled at the Ambrose marks going nuts for that bland match. All it had was Ambrose taking a kick to the head like a champ. Definition of nothing special with the finish we all wanted to see.

good lord at how horrible Orton vs Show was. jesus christ Orton is the worst these days.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i havent seen it yet. i slept through the entire PPV until cena blowing up woke me up

but i do love me some ambrose


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As do I, but the match was utterly forgettable. I think the pinnacle of what we wanted to see made the match appear "good" to some. b/c honesty it had nothing to make it stick out. Run of the mill WWE TV type contest. At least it wasn't bad.

I'm bummed by the tornado tag being underwhelming. Not via the time, just via the action being a bit milder than I was expecting. Good tandem move to win with by Shield.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Jericho/Fandango - **1/4 
Ambrose/Kofi - **
Henry/Sheamus - **
Del Rio/Swagger - ***
Shield/HellNo - ***1/4
Orton/Show - **3/4
Cena/Ryback - ***1/4
HHH/Lesnar - ****1/4


----------



## EdgeHeadBellaFan (Jul 3, 2011)

Chris Jericho vs. Fandango **3/4
Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston **1/2
Sheamus vs. Mark Henry ** (expecting this to be more brutal)
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger ***3/4 (Great performance by Jack Swagger) 
The Shield vs. Team Hell No **1/2 
Randy Orton vs. Big Show *** (was surprised by this match)
John Cena vs. Ryback ***1/2 (shit ending)
Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H **** (most people hate it, but I liked it)


----------



## Slider575 (May 14, 2013)

Jericho/Fandango - *** (Couldn't have done too much better with the awkward build)
Ambrose/Kofi - ***1/2 (I am looking forward to Ambrose putting on some amazing matches with the midcard talent)
Henry/Sheamus - ** (Really slow paced, would have rather seen a tables match or something with more action)
Del Rio/Swagger - * (Literally the worst I Quit match I have ever seen, ref asking every 20 seconds, the instant replay, the finish with submission that is used normally, just plain horrible)
Shield/TeamHellNo - **** (MOTN in my opinion, tornado tag was perfect to showcase the Shield)
Orton/Show - **1/2 (Pretty average, the extra 1/2 is just for the punt at the end)
Cena/Ryback - ***1/2 (Surprisingly better than expected aside from the no contest finish even though you saw Ryback walking)
HHH/Lesnar - *** (Decent but I couldn't get over HHH making Lesnar look like a bitch having to rely on Heyman, Lesnar is a beast ffs)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

JOAL.com said:


> i havent seen it yet. i slept through the entire PPV until cena blowing up woke me up
> 
> but i do love me some ambrose


do you mind if i take that gif? 

i really liked HHH/Lesnar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No need in asking, I'm sure. A good chunk of lads on this place with have championship decked out sigs of Shield tying in with the aftermath of tonight.

I even thought about it. 8*D


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Extreme Rules 2013

Jericho/Fandango - **** 
Ambrose/Kofi - ****1/2*
Henry/Sheamus - **3/4*
Del Rio/Swagger - **1/2*
Shield/HellNo - *****
Orton/Show - **1/4*
Cena/Ryback - *****
HHH/Lesnar - *****1/4*

After sleeping on it here are some of my thoughts:

- Jericho/Fandango was poor again for me, not really too invested in this feud anyway and both matches they've had together have been lackluster. The finish saved this big time for me, we've seen it before but it's still pretty awesome. Everything else sucked hard really.

- Yet to re-watch anything so no ratings have changed, but for a sub five minute match I really enjoyed this. My rating might be slightly skewered by Ambrose winning, but I thought it was a top performance by both men. Ambrose bringing out the chickenwing was cool, plus when do we ever see a butterfly suplex off the top? Really dug the ending too, Kofi not wanting to take the easy way out and win by countout, which ends up costing him the match. It'll most likely lower in my estimations slightly but good outing IMO.

- Urgh, this sucked. As soon as this was announced as a strap match I completely lost interest. It's just a dumb gimmick that doesn't really allow for a good match. Not much more to say, boring.

- The I Quit match was rolling along ok until the finish. I'm not a fan of the referee asking each man if they quit at almost _every_ moment though. Really seemed to lose momentum during the match with that. The fist 'ending' was ok, unusual but it sufficed. The match should have ended there but then we got the ridiculous video replay bullshit. Just awful, why doesn't every screwy finish have a ref run down from the back and turn over the decision then? And then Swagger taps almost instantly despite having Del Rio locked in the ankle lock for what seemed like an age earlier.

- The tornado tag was pretty fun. It was always going to be a reckless and fast paced match and that's what it was, all four guys played their part and for the time it was solid. A couple of false finishes I liked, plus the actual finish was good too. Shield holding all the gold is of course awesome.

- Was never interested in Orton/Show and surprised I actually watched it really. Hated it though, could see every spot coming a mile away and it was just boring. The rating may be a little harsh but I can't see me watching this match again.

- Still not exactly sure how I'd rate Cena/Ryback. It was definitely an enjoyable match that kept Ryback looking strong. Good use of weapons early and then their foray into the crowd was pretty fun. Upon reflection I actually dig the ending, though I was expecting something similar like a double countout. The problem before the match was keeping Ryback strong even though he couldn't win the title and I think this did just that.

- Loved the main event. It definitely had it's flaws with Heyman helping Brock a little too much and Brock not being quite the monster we'd like him to be, but I think I consider this their best match. HHH's ambush at the start was great and they didn't fuck around, just wanted to get at each other which made sense with the story they've told over the past year. Brock sold his knee like a boss and I find his injured knee made him look stronger since he was still able to pull out the win, though I can see why others disagree. HHH exploited it well and seeing some more heelish antics from him was great. Really loved the camouflaged sledgehammer. Brock not tapping to two submissions also kept him looking strong, and big lols and HHH using the sharpshooter. He knew exactly what he was doing there :lol​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I feel the same exact way about Show vs Orton. Show sadly didn't get to add anything to the match and Orton was standard run of the mill, lifeless Randy commonly seen in 2013. Such an unoriginal, droll contest.

Only negative pardon the finish to the I Quit for me was Chioda being all up in the wrestlers faces by asking "do you quit?" so frequently. That was a turn off - despite the action being quality. If only it ended without the bs shenanigans - REPLAY, really WWE? ffs - I would have slated it to be much higher in my book. Very serious.

I'm the only guy who liked Sheamus vs Henry. And I'm fine with that. Doesn't surprise me. I liked Henry vs Ryback at WM and that was commonly crapped on too. Henry in 2013 - WHILE WRESTLING - is all right by me. Marked at the pops both received. Sheamus winning earning a big one was rad. Debunks the myth that he isn't over. And Kofi came out to crickets yet some claim he's "very over". Lolz. Delusion.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Jericho vs Fandango - ** 1/4
Kingston vs Ambrose - **1/2 
Sheamus vs Henry - **
Del rio vs Swagger - ** 3/4
Team Hell No vs The Shield - **3/4
Orton vs Big Show - ** 1/2
Cena vs Ryback - ***
Brock vs HHH - ***

Tremendous(ly underwhelming) show.

Hated the endings to the I Quit/LMS matches, and Brock in peril wasn't what I was hoping for from the cage (although it was another good performance). Very bland and uninteresting card. A far-cry from the show last year.

Coming out of the show I'm most excited by the possibility that Brock/HHH might FINALLY be OVER. That feud went on two matches too long and never clicked.

The Shield winning all the belts was great but the TT was unjustly short.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

I can't believe people actually like that Cena/Ryback match. The no selling in that match was bloody terrible. I mean seriously? The ankle injury that should of been pushed never once played a part and made the announcers look like complete morons. Oh, let us not forget the table and FUCKING BARRICADE spots that were no sold like nothing happened. This match was dumb and falls under the "let's do stupid cool shit" department. Holy hell was that bad. "Powabum gais! WHO cares about mai ankle". The freaking worst. Let us not forget the botch hurcanranna that looked awkward as hell. Just smother him between your pecks bro. He'll stay down for the ten count then.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Miz/Cody - 1/4* (Just because it was fun)
Jericho/Fandango - **1/4 (Again, fun stuff, but belonged on Raw)
Kofi/Ambrose - **3/4 (Not sure if stuff like champ-selling and butterfly superplexes are truly "forgettable")
Sheamus/Henry - *1/4 (Expected quite better)
ADR/Swagger - *** (Other than the lame false finish, this was actually alright)
Hell No/Shield - *** (Expected better, but still served well)
Orton/Show - **1/2 (Sometimes slow and methodical doesn't work, though this was ok)
Cena/Ryback - ***1/4 (I hope I'm not the only one who actually liked the finish. Especially when you consider that the Cena/Edge LMS finale was quite similar, and many people I saw jizz over that one)
HHH/Lesnar - **** (Lesnar weak or not, this was awesome stuff. Amazing selling, and just brutal all around)

Best PPV of the year so far (which isn't saying much), but last year's was NEW YORK MILES better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why should butterfly suplexes be remembered? It's just a move 

Are WWE fans that deprived of seeing something ever so slightly fresh that the first sign of it = gross love?


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Cena vs Ryback ***1/4
Triple H vs Lesnar ***


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Upon re-watches I'm expecting the Ambrose/Kofi match to lower in rating due to not being caught up in the moment with the Amrbose victory and maybe the other Shield match but not by much. I'm hoping I enjoy HHH/Lesnar as much the second time around. Will be interesting to see where Lesnar goes from here. Is he booked for Raw tonight?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Why should butterfly suplexes be remembered? It's just a move
> 
> Are WWE fans that deprived of seeing something ever so slightly fresh that the first sign of it = gross love?


Butterfly SUPERplex :ambrose2

And yeah, probably. Nowadays the term "fresh" or "different" are quite close to extinct. I mean, back in February, everybody marked for a piledriver. When you mark for a piledriver, you know things are bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Super or traditional - point remains.

I will offer up a counterpoint here with acceptability towards the piledriver causing a rousing ovation among fans. Not only was it a total shocker considering the lineage of having the move banned from all WWE matches _(more than simply being a move you don't see often)_ & it added a massive wrinkle to the match it was occurring in with Punk vs Cena.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> I feel the same exact way about Show vs Orton. Show sadly didn't get to add anything to the match and Orton was standard run of the mill, lifeless Randy commonly seen in 2013. Such an unoriginal, droll contest.
> 
> Only negative pardon the finish to the I Quit for me was Chioda being all up in the wrestlers faces by asking "do you quit?" so frequently. That was a turn off - despite the action being quality. If only it ended without the bs shenanigans - REPLAY, really WWE? ffs - I would have slated it to be much higher in my book. Very serious.
> 
> I'm the only guy who liked Sheamus vs Henry. And I'm fine with that. Doesn't surprise me. I liked Henry vs Ryback at WM and that was commonly crapped on too. Henry in 2013 - WHILE WRESTLING - is all right by me. Marked at the pops both received. Sheamus winning earning a big one was rad. Debunks the myth that he isn't over. And Kofi came out to crickets yet some claim he's "very over". Lolz. Delusion.


I didn't mind the frequent asking during the match tbh. The match was quite intense, and I'm noticing Swagger's attitude for matches being a bit more intense as well, his taunts and when he licked his own blood like the shoulder wound was nothing. But the ending put a dirty heel to shame. Where was this TV monitor when HHH bullshitted his way in to winning the title at Judgement Day 2000? This could have easily worked in favor of Rio saying that he never said "I Quit", but now Swagger is gonna come out on RAW and claim that he has a case when he really doesn't have shit on Rio.

I didn't mind the Orton vs Show tbh, although I would really like Show to GTFO right about now. Orton has a way of selling a fine stpry during his matches and the lead to the finish of that match was well done.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was too much constant asking for me. I get the intensity was there only don't force feed it. We get the rules, let the story and match play out before asking after each and every move. Even the ones that were standard via being on tv each week. Swagger got the jip job here. I can't deem is as part of his punishment as much as I can claim WWE only didn't use their brain here and said fuck you to logic with this finish. Instant replay. and he actually viewed it on a mini-tv. Hilarious pathetic move. I can't stress that enough. Hate to be so hung up on it, but it is beyond outlandish when you think about it. Like you said, how come in the ENTIRE history of WWF/WWE, it has never been seen before? Terrible.

I'm more of the same with Orton, quite frankly. He doesn't show me anything. Although he was a tad spiffy in the pretty awesome 6 man on the go-home Smackdown before Extreme Rules. He got into his hot tag sequence better than any other tag this year. All in all though he's a lifeless performer for me. I know he's had his faults and all that, but he really just needs to either take a break and come back rejuvenated or put his best foot forward again. I can't take much of his matches these days. They're hard to watch.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Upon re-watches I'm expecting the Ambrose/Kofi match to lower in rating due to not being caught up in the moment with the Amrbose victory and maybe the other Shield match but not by much. I'm hoping I enjoy HHH/Lesnar as much the second time around. Will be interesting to see where Lesnar goes from here. Is he booked for Raw tonight?


Far as I know, Big Brock is not advertised. I expect him to ride off into the sunset as usual lol. Till at least Summerslam.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

You're way too critical Cody imo. Lesnar/HHH was great imo.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

@Hail

No doubt I can see how it was overdone to death and annoyed people, maybe if it was the ME. Was surprised the PPV ran right up until the last minute, not sure if that usually happens.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So far I've seen one person rate the I Quit match as high as myself. I'm honestly not sure what people didn't like about it... besides Chioda and the ending, but I'm referring to what they were actually doing in the ring. Thought it was well on its way into hitting 4* territory before the towel came into play. I'll probably rewatch Lesnar/Trips today seeing as I gave their Mania match the exact same rating, then boosted it tremendously on the 2nd watch.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So far I've seen one person rate the I Quit match as high as myself. I'm honestly not sure what people didn't like about it... besides Chioda and the ending, but I'm referring to what they were actually doing in the ring. Thought it was well on its way into hitting 4* territory before the towel came into play. I'll probably rewatch Lesnar/Trips today seeing as I gave their Mania match the exact same rating, then boosted it tremendously on the 2nd watch.


What's your ratings on the previous 2 Lesnar/HHH matches Corey?

I'll probably re-watch the I quit match too, some of the stuff they were executing in the ring was solid for sure, but like I mentioned in an earlier post the constant (and it really was constant) Chioda 'interference' really got to me and it really hampered the match and stopped it flowing. Obviously he had to ask at some points but it started about one minute into the match where neither man had barely had any offense, so they were hardly going to quit that early. Plus obviously the duff ending sucked. Up until the towel was thrown in I reckon I would have easily given it *****+


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Summerslam - *** (2 watches, went down on the 2nd viewing. Just so tedious despite the psychology being there)
Wrestlemania - **** (2 watches, went way up on the 2nd viewing, absolutely loved the performance from Brock and how much shit it took to slap the beast per se)

I think Chioda stated asking so early cause Swagger requested it on the outside. I think both guys were just like, ask him!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't understand why they used the video replay, surely Chioda could have just trusted his colleague. Although I'm sure it will play in to the angle, I'm positive Colter will rant on about how if it was the other way around, Swagger wouldn't get video replay, but Alberto Del Rio did because he's Mexican, or some shit. I'm getting insanely bored of the gimmick, tbh, no progression or development whatsoever.

Anyway, MOTN goes to Lesnar/Game, followed up by Show/Orton. The Shield tag should have been doubled in length, so that Reigns and Rollins could have a longer and more distinct control segment, allowing Bryan to make a comeback and clear house in an epic fashion, similar to the 6 man Elimination tag the other week, before The Shield close the match with a frantic finishing stretch. You could tell how much of a difference 6 men makes compared to 4 men when you're trying to convey the craziness and anarchy that The Shield bring to the table. I'm close to giving up on Fandango, Sheamus/Henry was BLEH personified and Cena/Ryback pissed me off a hell of a lot. It was just spot after spot after spot, and everything in between was setting up the next one, similar to Edge/Taker TLC. There was no substance, nothing for me to sink my teeth in to and just a whole lot of nothing with an extremely underwhelming ending. Plus the fact that JBL, Cole and Lawler constantly alluded to Cena's ankle yet hardly any work was done on it seemed really goofy and backwards.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The ending to Cena/Ryback legit PISSED me off. We've seen Cena get thrown through a fucking stage light by a 440 pound man and he was still counted, yet when Ryback takes him through the stage, the commentators sell like it just absolutely the worst bump they've ever seen in their entire lives and the match is stopped. And the way Cena "landed"? Holy shit, yeah I'll believe that alright.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Kenny said:


> You're way too critical Cody imo. Lesnar/HHH was great imo.


Main event was so flat. Didn't like much of it pardon Brock winning, really.

I'd say anything from me as "critical" comes from just seeing an abundance and knowing what makes or breaks a match from being special. Nothing on this card hit that level for me. Only one that sort of did was Cena vs Ryback which was bordering on a fun time with that gimmick than it was "wow this is a great match" kind of deal. I still liked that match. Even if Cena's ankle didn't come into play. But did it really have to? It was more or less a non-kayfabe deal only brought to light b/c well, it's legit. Ryback targeting Cena's entire body with painstaking punishment was his story more than it was Ryback will only try and ground Cena so he can't stand. The ankle situation was only put into play with the build to further along how John-boy was banged up vs this new threat in Ryback and that's about it. As the match's outline will show. I had no problems with it. Not so much the ending pardon the abrupt stop. A double countout would have sufficed.

I hope I'm not going in circles with these discussions. :hayley2



swagger_ROCKS said:


> @Hail
> 
> No doubt I can see how it was overdone to death and annoyed people, maybe if it was the ME. Was surprised the PPV ran right up until the last minute, not sure if that usually happens.


It's the whole absurdity of it that's what was the problem. After every move? Why? That never happens as it is. It was weird how the ref was on constant hoover mode during the match.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> So far I've seen one person rate the I Quit match as high as myself. I'm honestly not sure what people didn't like about it... besides Chioda and the ending, but I'm referring to what they were actually doing in the ring. Thought it was well on its way into hitting 4* territory before the towel came into play. I'll probably rewatch Lesnar/Trips today seeing as I gave their Mania match the exact same rating, then boosted it tremendously on the 2nd watch.


Meh at a star rating for now - I really liked the effort put forth by Swagger & Del Rio. Chioda was annoying but they managed to pull through despite the lingering pustule. Some of the shots were down right brutal.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Miz/Cody- *1/2
Jericho/Fandango- **1/2
Ambrose/Kofi- ***1/4
Sheamus/Henry- **
ADR/Swagger- **1/2
Shield/THN- ***1/4
Orton/Show- ***1/2
Cena/Ryback- ****
Brock/HHH- ****1/4


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*If it makes no sense then you're not stupid.

Lesnar/Heyman show at the end saved the show for me. Nothing before that I'd call a good match tbh. I get Moop's point about Lesnar having a great wrestling performance but not a great BROCK LESNAR performance. I accepted long ago that Brock Lesnar was here to just play a generic pro wrestling heel than play BROCK LESNAR: HUMAN DESTROYER. Almost certainly meant I enjoyed this match more. Did run through my head Lesnar looked kinda weak with the injury and Heyman shtick but I'll take a great Lesnar performance like this because it saved the match. F-5 on one leg was great so the camera missed it of course. Heyman is seriously the best guy ever in his role. Just perfect. Him and Brock play off each perfectly too. Hunter was fine. He was there and played his role fine, didn't hurt the match. This was all Brock and Heyman though. Brock going over clean with no finisher spam was nice. Oh and CAMOUFLAGE SLEDGEHAMMER. 

Cena/Ryback was really dull. Reverse order reviews ftw. I tried to pay attention but I kept wandering off to do stuff while watching it. Ryback just isn't very good unless he's being carried the fuck out of like Bryan did. Match layout didn't help either. They worked even and that sucked. Lacking big spots. Figured the draw finish out a few days ago so I was ready for that. I doubt I'd have cared if I was hoping for a finish anyway. No finish in a LMS match. Yay. This must continue. Oh joy. I was at least hoping The Shield would run in and lay them both out for the finish. Spots where you see no landing suck unless they fall of the titantron. 

Orton/Show was decent. Some good spots. Pretty sure Orton's the most over guy in the company right now. Maybe Bryan. Hometown I know but he's super over like everywhere, especially considering his spot on the card these days. No idea where he ran around before the final pin. Maybe he doesn't like Show. Eh. Had some good spots. I'd call Show better than Henry over the course of their careers. I mean Henry didn't really start having great matches until like 8 years in did he? Maybe some hidden gem TV match but nothing that would make you see him as people do after his HOP run. Show's been great for a long time now so he wins almost just be quantity. I think he has more quality too ftr. 

Shield tag was a huge letdown. Felt super short and like they never gave it chance to get going. I assumed with Tornado rules Kane would go through a table and lead to a handicap match until Kane awakens. Nope, just ended up being kinda messy. Reigns has been my favourite guy since the EC 6 man. Maybe not the best but my fave. Still hoping for a Reigns/Bryan match. Please.

I Quit match didn't interest me at all. Them two just don't. At all. False finishes are fun when you have money on them I'll say that. I have a big problem with the replay thing though. God that opens up a massive can of worms for the future. I bet Ziggler beats ADR by cheating and ADR won't ask for a replay and he won't get one because replays only in #1 contenders matches brother. It's like something that should never be done. If someone asks when don't pro wrestling have instant replays then the answer is because it's pro wrestling. Now every babyface who gets screwed looks kinda stupid for just accepting it and not demanding an instant replay like ADR got here/

Strap match sucked. Even for a strap match. Carnival games always suck and this was a carnival game, not a wrestling match even with a hoaky stip. They barely wrestled or hit each other. It was more like a game of trivial pursuit. Strap looked awful like Mike and Moops said and they didn't even use it. Cole basically forecasted Henry whipping the color of Sheamus's skin and then he didn't. Awful. Hopefully they get a rematch, even just on SD.




Think Seabs said that it was going to wipe the aura of Ambrose because it wasn't going to be good, and he was on the button because it made Ambrose look like regular guy.

Click to expand...

Made me smile like a retard. Thought Ambrose looked good but he does this thing at the start of matches in WWE that always annoys me where he wrestles like he's Bryan Danielson but he's not close to being Bryan Danielson. He's actually pretty flimsy technically so when he tries to chain wrestle it looks kinda bad. Kofi obviously isn't a guy to make someone look good but he should just stick to what he's good at. Hopefully he gets good opponents for his title run and not the R-Truth's of the world. Kofi's comeback was one of the worst ever. All over the fucking place. Ambrew's finisher does indeed look awful. It's basically Miz's finisher in reverse. So someone looked at Miz's finisher and though that it was so good they'd give it to one of their top prospects. He was doing a DDT before that looked so much better. Does Rollins even have a finisher yet?

Jericho/Fandango was fine. Better than most matches on the card at least. Fandango is fine in the ring but not stand out good. Could have done with winning here but whatever, he won't be going that far up the card anyway.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say Rollins finisher atm is the flying knee.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

"You try to break my arm? Well I'm gonna break your face!"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best part of that match.

Downloading the event again. Shouldn't have deleted it but I figure my opinion might not change much. I should give it another go around right now. I can't wait till matches like Show vs Orton still sucks ass & maybe think higher of a different bout. But probably won't - :hayley1


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Urgh, everything ranged from down right awful to mediocre.

Ryback, fuck off. Seriously you're not main event material, dull match. ending didn't bother me

SHIELD/Hell No was not shades of the tornado tag from 2011, such a shame.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched brock/hunter this morning because my stream was horrible last night and i just waited

MY extreme rules ratings :
y2j/fandango **3/4
ambrose/kofi **1/2
sheamus/henry *
del/swagger **
tornado tag ***1/2-3/4
orton/show **3/4
cena/ryback------
brock/hunter ****

didn't get to see cena/ryback but I dont think I missed that much. Brocks selling was awesome and really turned a dull match its a decent one. Overall terrible ppv gents, Idk where they are going from here, somebody save us


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

I don't see how it was terrible. I recommend watching the Cena/Ryback match, as it was surprisingly good. I see a PPV with solid and watchable matches on the undercard, and two 4 star main events. That's not a "terrible" PPV to me, but to each their own. Though to be fair, I have a feeling that if I were to watch the Brock/HHH match again it would go down a notch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I caught the end of the match with the whole cena and the lights (dont want to spoil it for ppl who haven't watched) and heard lawler compare it to some of foley falls, I was disgusted and just took it off

Some notes :

*I dont like how y2j/fandango match was structured- let fandango showcase some of his move set if he has one
* sheamus/henry could have been great if it was a normal match
* del/swagger start well but just fell flat
* orton/show was just boring
*tornado tag need to get more time
I have stated my thoughts on the last two matches


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Here goes nothing;

Y2J/Fandango: *** Unstructured piece of shit.
Ambrose/Kofi: ***1/2*
Fella/Henry: *DUD*
Del Rio/Swagger: ***1/2*
Tornado Tag: **3/4*
Orton/Show: ****
Cena/Ryback: ***3/4*
Lesnar/Trips: Need to watch again, i wasn't huge on it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well, I know unless they do another part timer main event, Payback is likely to have a fucking terrible card. Cena Vs Ryback? Dolph Vs Orton (YES, that seems to be the obvious route for the title to go... Del Rio gets a shot on Friday, loses, Orton gets #1 contendership and they revolve it around the concussion & the punt.)? Seems fucking terrible to me.

EDIT: Dolph Vs Orton or Dolph-Swagger-Del Rio can go fucking DIE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

looks like paybback will consist of 
ryback/cena 2 
hell no Rollins and reigns 2
henry/sheamus 3
orton/dolph
ambrose somebody

What does orton need payback for lol ? what has dolph done to him ?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Watched a couple of the matches. Everything was just... meh.

*Ambrose vs. Kingston* - **1/2
*Hell No vs. Shield *- **1/2
*John Cena vs. Ryback* - ***
*Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar* - **

The Shield matches were below average to decent, mainly due to time constraints, but the matches themselves weren't very good either. The tornado tag lacked the structure the other Shield matches had, and it just felt like the match was.. there. Nothing special.

Ryback vs. Cena was the best of the night. It was not as good as Ryback/Punk TLC as Ryback's greatest singles match, but I think I would put this as number 2 easily. As if there's any competition for that spot. The match had some nice spots and made Ryback look good, however I still can't stand how goofy the motherfucker looks in that ring. Can't buy into him at all, and it looks like neither can the fans since they still need Ryback to instruct them to make noise for him. Nonetheless, both guys did well during the match, but I think it dragged on longer than it should have and the finish wasn't to my liking. 

Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar is the worst big-time trilogy of matches I've ever seen. Just like their previous two matches, the crowd was as dead as the match. But it's not like the two gave the crowd anything to give a shit about. This program was awful and if it isn't over then God help us all. Luckily though, if they have any sense, it is. Just like SS and WM, the match never got going, it was slow and boring, and it just featured too much down-time. It's expected with any part timers that are working together, unless your name is Undertaker. I'll never understand the **** praise any of their matches get.

Pales in comparison to last year's event. Understatement for sure.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I might be alone on this but I was actually a little impressed with Ryback last night. I probably enjoyed his heel work last night more than anything he did as a face (aside from the TLC match). Show's undercard felt rushed yet again. Both Shield matches were fun, short and sweet. Tag match needed more time imo. I enjoyed the main event as well, though I do echo some of the people who thought Brock's selling was great - just not for someone of Brock's stature.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, Ryback actually came out of that matching looking soooo much better than Cena. Cena slopped it up all night with some terrible shit.

Rewatched Brock/Trips, still didn't do much for me for all the reasons I've stated. I'll stick with ** 3/4.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Extreme Rules 2013. 


Jericho/Fandango: **

Ambrose/Kofi: ***

Hell No/Shield: ***1/4

Henry/Sheamus: *

Orton/Show: ***

Swagger/Del Rio: **3/4

Cena/Ryback: ***3/4

HHH/Lesnar: ***1/4

Not bad, but nothing really stood out. Crowd was absolutely DEAD for lesnar/hhh. 

Best of the night: Ryback/Cena

Trash of the night: Henry/Sheamus. Very disappointing.

Orton/show was better than I expected.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Hah, I don't even want to give Sheamus vs. Henry a watch after finding out it was a strap match. No thanks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone else hate the way the strap match works? I'm pretty sure you could win that match at just about any point you wanted, especially if you're Mark Henry.

And it sucks because I know those two can put on a high quality singles match.

Also: I wish that Swagger/Del Rio match that made SD a couple weeks ago was the match we got on PPV. That match owned.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, awful.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So re-watched Lesnar/HHH from last night, and it dropped a bit. HHH attacking Lesnar at the start, while an interesting way to start it, made no sense to me. HHH had no reason to feel that threatened by Lesnar as he's beaten him at almost every turn in their feud. It just seemed like a way to justifiably have HHH be able to dominate Lesnar for a bit, which has happened in their previous two matches anyway. Then you get them into the cage and HHH continues to dominate, with Lesnar only getting in a few good shots. Then the pace slows down dramatically and nothing of note happens until Lesnar rams his knee into the cage and fucks it up. Then we get some amazing selling by Lesnar and the match finally gets interesting. Of course the thing again, that didn't make any sense to me, is not much changed in terms of the back and fourth between Lesnar and HHH in the match even after the knee injury. If anything, Lesnar might've gotten in more offense after that, with HHH just getting control back by attacking the leg. It makes no fucking sense unless they're trying to tell us that Lesnar getting injured makes him more dangerous. They do make Lesnar look strong to some extent by not having him tap out to the figure four and even reversing the hold, and then not tapping to the sharp-shooter, but Lesnar doesn't break out of that one and Heyman takes the fall. Then even when Lesnar was about to attack HHH with the sledgehammer from behind, HHH just turns around and manages to get off a pedigree on Lesnar. That's pretty un-fucking believable as well. Lesnar kicking out isn't anything special as we've seen it already (with him "injured" as well). Then when it looks like HHH is going to finish Lesnar with the sledgehammer, Heyman saves the day with a low-blow and that is what gives Lesnar the opportunity to ultimately knock HHH out with the sledgehammer and then hit the F-5 for the win.

So a lot of the senseless stuff I noticed, coupled with the fact Lesnar looked like your slightly-tougher ordinary heel (and playing the role the face would normally play in selling an injury), and HHH having to look as strong as possible even in defeat, even against Lesnar, getting to me more than it did the first watch has made me bring the match down. Also of course it's the same story with Lesnar and HHH having absolutely no chemistry. Hopefully this horrible feud and disappointing series of matches is over. Wrestlinfan35 said it best, Lesnar/HHH may be the worst big trilogy of matches ever. Only the Summerslam match I'd call good, the cage match was decent at best and the Mania match was abysmal. 

**1/2

Gonna re-watch Cena/Ryback, the Shield/Team Hell No tag later (which is my current MOTN at ***1/4) and maybe Ambrose/Kofi.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If anybody tries to tell me that the company doesn't suffer horrendously without CM Punk around then I wouldn't know what to say to them. His absence over the last few weeks have been felt tremendously; from the lack of entertaining segments throughout a RAW that he would have provided, as well as delivering a MOTN performance at last night's PPV had he competed. 

Here's to hoping that the seeds for a Punk Vs Triple H feud or a Punk Vs Brock feud are planted tonight; you don't go from Rock to Undertaker back to anything ess than main event or co-main event matches & since Cena is already tied up, the only names big enough for Punk are Brock & HHH.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Punk better be at payback.... I have tickets!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

When was the last time we had a really good Strap match? Dusty/Orton?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> When was the last time we had a really good Strap match? Dusty/Orton?


Are you talking about that Bullrope match a few years ago? :lol

Last one I can think of was obviously JBL/Eddie, but if we're just saying Strap matches it's probably Austin/Savio, caue HHH/Rock and JTG/Shad both sucked. Never seen Punk/Umaga.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shocking most found ryback/cena MOTN. Hunter/brock for me started off dull but after Brock became the modern day hbk and sold like a champ it breathed fresh air into the match. Brock really carried hhh last night and brought them to a decent match.After the heyman interaction and brock sellig of the knee the match became MUCH better, it was the MOTN for me 

I still think summerslam is superior but this was MUCH better than mania


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> So re-watched Lesnar/HHH from last night, and it dropped a bit. HHH attacking Lesnar at the start, while an interesting way to start it, made no sense to me. HHH had no reason to feel that threatened by Lesnar as he's beaten him at almost every turn in their feud. It just seemed like a way to justifiably have HHH be able to dominate Lesnar for a bit, which has happened in their previous two matches anyway. Then you get them into the cage and HHH continues to dominate, with Lesnar only getting in a few good shots. Then the pace slows down dramatically and nothing of note happens until Lesnar rams his knee into the cage and fucks it up. Then we get some amazing selling by Lesnar and the match finally gets interesting. Of course the thing again, that didn't make any sense to me, is not much changed in terms of the back and fourth between Lesnar and HHH in the match even after the knee injury. If anything, Lesnar might've gotten in more offense after that, with HHH just getting control back by attacking the leg. It makes no fucking sense unless they're trying to tell us that Lesnar getting injured makes him more dangerous. They do make Lesnar look strong to some extent by not having him tap out to the figure four and even reversing the hold, and then not tapping to the sharp-shooter, but Lesnar doesn't break out of that one and Heyman takes the fall. Then even when Lesnar was about to attack HHH with the sledgehammer from behind, HHH just turns around and manages to get off a pedigree on Lesnar. That's pretty un-fucking believable as well. Lesnar kicking out isn't anything special as we've seen it already (with him "injured" as well). Then when it looks like HHH is going to finish Lesnar with the sledgehammer, Heyman saves the day with a low-blow and that is what gives Lesnar the opportunity to ultimately knock HHH out with the sledgehammer and then hit the F-5 for the win.
> 
> So a lot of the senseless stuff I noticed, coupled with the fact Lesnar looked like your slightly-tougher ordinary heel (and playing the role the face would normally play in selling an injury), and HHH having to look as strong as possible even in defeat, even against Lesnar, getting to me more than it did the first watch has made me bring the match down. Also of course it's the same story with Lesnar and HHH having absolutely no chemistry. Hopefully this horrible feud and disappointing series of matches is over. Wrestlinfan35 said it best, Lesnar/HHH may be the worst big trilogy of matches ever. Only the Summerslam match I'd call good, the cage match was decent at best and the Mania match was abysmal.
> 
> ...


This is a nice analysis, but the way I saw it when Brock got in all of that offense after his knee injury... is that he was hitting moves out of desperation, and perhaps getting angrier and angrier as Triple H would go after the already injured knee. I know this might be a random comparison, but it reminded me of Bane from that last Batman movie where he went berserk on Batman even after he was weakened by the shots he took to his mask. 

I agree that none of the matches were really spectacular, and Paul Heyman's involvement last night made the match more fun for me personally. What manager is better than Heyman? the guy took a Rock Bottom throgh an announce table, he actually bladed during the Hell in a Cell between Brock/Taker, and last night he took a pedigree for the team. I liked the ending more than everything else. I have a good feeling that the feud is over now, and hopefully I'm not wrong.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Are you talking about that Bullrope match a few years ago? :lol
> 
> Last one I can think of was obviously JBL/Eddie, but if we're just saying Strap matches it's probably Austin/Savio, caue HHH/Rock and JTG/Shad both sucked. Never seen Punk/Umaga.


Yup, said match had dope storytelling and awesome selling. Nowhere near Eddie/JBL but still ***1/2 stuff.

Punk/Umaga was just a faster version of Sheamus/Henry. Don't watch it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Lesnar vs HHH from last night. Surprisingly, this was a great match and my favorite from their series. ★★★★.

Still got the Shield stuff and Cena/Ryback to watch before I review the full thing.



> If anybody tries to tell me that the company doesn't suffer horrendously without CM Punk around then I wouldn't know what to say to them. His absence over the last few weeks have been felt tremendously; from the lack of entertaining segments throughout a RAW that he would have provided, as well as delivering a MOTN performance at last night's PPV had he competed.


I beg to differ. If It wasn't for all the marks with his picture on their ava and sigs, I wouldn't have even remembered that he exists. His absence has made exactly zero difference to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HIGH FIVE FOR THE BROCK-BANE COMPARISON.

Where exactly does Brock go from here though? My guess is that he main events Summerslam and they announce it like two months in advance ALA HHH-Brock being announced in June & set up in April so they don't need to come up with a "Lesnar Quits" storyline again. Who he feuds with next however looks to be a complete mystery.

Yeah, but let's be real C2D ... You're in a very elite minority when it comes to HATING Punk so obviously you wouldn't think the quality of the shows were dropping because of his absence. THE GOOD NEWS is that he'll be back soon providing us with quality television on a weekly basis, something that like 90 percent of the roster doesn't do for me right now either due to terribly written characters, or good characters written into storylines or feuds that I don't care for ALA Cena-Ryback. Sick of Cena having to be stuck in feuds with the likes of Ryback & The Rock .... Looking more & more like there's going to be a stopgap feud for Cena between the Ryback feud & whatever he does at Summerslam when MITB rolls around, so hopefully they give him something awesome to work with then like BRYAN.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/ryback ***

I repped you NO! just for the simple fact that im a huge batman mark and not ashamed to say I saw that movie five times in the theater alone. Punk needs to come back ASAP


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Are you talking about that Bullrope match a few years ago? :lol
> 
> Last one I can think of was obviously JBL/Eddie, but if we're just saying Strap matches it's probably Austin/Savio, caue HHH/Rock and JTG/Shad both sucked. Never seen Punk/Umaga.


JTG and Shad had a strap match? :lmao

Infact... JTG had a singles match on Pay Per View?!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

It's clear as day that WWE is suffering without Punk right now. Other than a couple of segments and matches, I haven't watched a thing since he's left. There's nobody as interesting enough right now as he is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Extreme Rules 2013​*
1) Chris Jericho vs Fandango ~ ****


2) *WWE United States Championship*
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Dean Ambrose ~ **1/4*


3) *Strap Match*
Sheamus vs Mark Henry ~ *1/2**


4) *I Quit Match*
Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio ~ *3/4**


5) *WWE Tag Team Championship* - *Tornado Match*
Team Hell No(c) _(Kane & Daniel Bryan)_ vs The Shield _(Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns)_ ~ ***1/4*


6) *Extreme Rules Match*
Big Show vs Randy Orton ~ ***


7) *WWE Championship* - *Last Man Standing Match*
John Cena(c) vs Ryback ~ *****


8) *Steel Cage Match*
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H ~ ******​

~ Forgettable is the name of the game here with Jericho vs Fandango. Although it did come off swifter and a tad smoother the second time around. Point being, you can wake up tomorrow and forget the match. That's where I suppose the problem is. It's fine as a whole to state the contradictory portion of this review. Just the definition of decent and more or less what this entire event would be predicated around. Good finish. Curtis took the Codebreaker like a champ.

~ Ambrose vs Kingston was honest to goodness weaker on the second go around. Kofi was so poor coupled with Ambrose not doing anything to add to the match himself. Again, how did a crossface chickenwing & a super butterfly suplex make this a fun match? It's a rushed display complete with move - near fall - move - near fall type format. It's bland and nothing exemplary in the slightest. Ambrose goggled were on full force here to the lot of folks it seems. I still don't hate the Headlock driver. I liked it on the indies. I liked it when Derrick Bateman used it. I like it today. It's no Snapmare Driver. Now that's a wicked finisher. Do concur with Ambrose's DDT being a rockin finisher for him. I wouldn't have minded if that stuck.

~ I'm sorry to those out there who saw my posts a few hours ago claiming I thought Sheamus vs Henry was remotely good. What in the holy high hell was I thinking? Not only was the gimmick bad from the start, but the entire match was just that: bad. Henry wasn't Henry. Sheamus wasn't Sheamus. This wasn't nearly close to what a collision between these two should have been. Not at all. First off the god damn strap was like NEVER USED during this. I mean it was for about two lousy shots on the backs of both each. Not the first time the commentary and the story of the match were completely out of sync, fyi. Second, Henry was seemingly injured during this entire match. He'd do something and proceed to clutch at his knee. Third, thanks in part to my second point, the match was without a flow. It was every single expected spot from this gimmick match down in condensed form thus making you utterly not care for what happens next. This was such a pointless match while you watch it. Sheamus wins...woooo ok whatever. What's next, WWE? Slapping this gimmick on these two was an immediate death wish.

~ Mike Chioda needs to fucking die. Talk about a total 180 of an opinion. All of the negatives found in this match were put on glaring display here. All the positives on a first watch vanished into thin air. I now concur with the majority who found this to be boring & plodding. More importantly the entire match was so arbitrary. WWE forced an I Quit match down the pipeline all b/c the Ladder match was scrapped. So much forced nonsense - and yet again - packed into such a tiny space. This match was the most rushed of the night, bar none. It was brutal to watch when you view it in the proper light. Chioda hovering around these two after every offensive moment. Almost like WWE were waiting to pull the plug on this the moment the bell rang. Pardon some brutal shots with the ever popular kendo stick and a kick to the head this didn't have anything to it. Such a linear match. So bland. So poor. These two are much better than this. They were victims of circumstance though. Had no chance to put on anything special and that's the truly terrible part. That and I'm not even going to mention the finish. That alone puts this on an even lower scale. Worst finish in god knows how long...or since at least the Royal Rumble with Del Rio vs Show & Punk vs Rock. This was crap.

~ You know I actually thought the Tornado Tag went up ever so slightly in quality here. It's still a far cry from what could have been - yet again with this good card on paper - & was hardly anything seen from The Shield thus far. It lacked that common charm their matches have brought. That sense of chaos. Wild atmosphere where anything can happen and things can break down on a whim. Yet, when the rules were virtually thrown out, this was much milder than one would have assumed. Instead of being a blitzkrieg of fury, coupled with all the right spots & elements to create a story with Shield dominating, Danielson having a blistering comeback, & Kane going apeshit, it was merely a collection of moves strung together in seven minute format that averaged out to a decent, if not fun affair. And the fun part goes a long way with this show considering its quality was hardly, hardly around. A total disappointment at the end of it; if not a decent watch.

~ Well this went up the tiniest bit. That's all thanks in part to Big Show taking his share of the bumps and making me love him more. Still, this was straight up mediocre tripe. Standard Orton in a gimmick match type bout. Meaning his opponent takes all the bumps while Randy dishes everything out. I credit Corey (Jack Evans 187) for this astute observation. My brother put it best and I fully agree with him - When Orton works this way it is very Davey Richards like. All the glory for him on the offense while the guy having the better portion of the match is the one getting a the brunt of the punishment. Or there is just no one looking good and the match sucks. That's what we got here. Honestly this started off like it was going to be fun. Show should have dominated with an Orton comeback at the very end to win, that's how this should've been worked. While Show was on the offense in the first few minutes I was liking it. Orton needs to cut his "RKO on objects" thingy b/c he is the guy who always lands on the object and ends up looking like a twonk. Bad enough Orton embarrassed himself following the punt by randomly engaging the crowd instead of making the immediate pinfall. What was the point of that? Like many on this event, this had potential. Too bad it didn't reach it. I wanted to have fun with this match.

~ The commentary fucked John Cena over here. Yeah, a weird statement. I even said to myself "is this semi-factual?" I do believe it is. Yes, Cena's ankle is hurt. Legit. It isn't kayfabe. WWE only seemed to put it as part of the story for two reasons. One to add into Cena's heart and perseverance on never quitting, etc. Two to be a precursor for Ryback being a beast in the build for the match. Ryback beats down Cena's ankle, he can't stand. Get it? It's LAST MAN STANDING. Clever. So theoretically Ryback wasn't even going to target Cena's ankle in the match. It's kind of an on the fly type deal. And he didn't. It was the commentary that kept bringing up the ankle. They kept playing that "angle" _(even though it really is hurting Cena, obviously)_ even though the story of the match is Ryback swarming Cena with his power b/c Cena is vulnerable at the heart of it. Ryback is super hungry to become WWE Champion. He's furious so he's going to dominate. And he did. It wasn't until about 15 minutes in the match did Ryback even attempted to attack the ankle. Cole, King, & JBL continued to bring it up even though Cena had zero work on it, thus looking as if he is "no selling" despite no damage being done to it. idk. I think it was a shitty hand dealt. I do hate to "defend" like this, but it is only my two cents on the topic. I felt it wasn't a part of the story as much as the rest of Ryback dominating was. Spots in the match were fine by me. Nothing spectacular; they got the job done for the specific gimmick. Ripping off the hockey bench door while in the crowd was cool beans. Despite feeling Cena didn't no sell much in this match, I can't say I thought he was too special during this. Didn't add too much other than being a punching bag for Ryback - whom of which had the more impressive outing. Which humors me when some people are clamoring for Ryback to go away from the main event scene when he's the guy who made this match. I still like the match, btw. Can't say I have any loathing towards it or if it is going to continue. Oh and what was the deal with that weird funky submission botch Cena did in this match? That part was terrible. Oh and yeah, ending was solid. The spot rocked, but the abrupt nature was iffy. Like I've stated about three times over is I wished it would have been a double countout instead of a no contest. Commentary was bullocks following the spot too. Dammit the commentary was shit this whole night, tbhayley.

~ THAT'S MY MANAGER. Yeah...the biggest change of them all for me on the second watch. This match. This match was WONDERFUL. Storytelling at its finest. On some much of this match. It's brilliant. From Brock's stellar selling of the knee, to Trips return to the Cerebral Assassin; all of it was on point. Best part about it was the total change in characters from both men. Past matches saw Trips the vulnerable man & Brock as the beast at SummerSlam. WrestleMania saw it be a dead heap - both were unleashed that night. Here at Extreme Rules the opposite happened. Brock suffered the knee injury thus making him the vulnerable man in the situation & Trips smelled the blood in the water and morphed into the beast. That's just absolutely fantastic work. Certainly this match was all lead along by Brock. No doubt about it. The character shift did show signs of giving Trips something fresher to do while against Brock. Can't forget about the awesome camouflage sledgehammer too. It's like Silver Surfer's weapon to bludgeon anyone he finds out in space. I adored Heyman's work in this too. From all aspects. As the concerned manager on the outside - to all the times he got in the mix to aid his client. He was fiesty, taking out officials and even suffering a pedigree for Brock. Little did Triple H know that Paul would have the last laugh. I have ZERO problems with Heyman hitting the low blow on Triple H before Brock got the advantage. Brock was wounded. There is no shame in this. It wasn't to "feed the ego" of Triple H. It was to not only have Brock Lesnar win this feud, but Paul Heyman too. Heyman gave Trips the biggest fuck you moment possible and that was by taking his arm and jamming it right into the groin of the COO. The dichotomy between Brock & Heyman has almost never reach a more pinnacle moment than this. It was defined here. Proof positive that they're both in it together. Brock is down; nearly out. Showing signs that he is mortal. Triple H about to finish off Lesnar like a lamb to the slaughter, only for his (Brock's) shining light in the form of his agent being the last push he needed in the right direction. Couple that with the original smoking gun - Triple H's own beloved sledgehammer - & Brock would end this once and for all. Proving he is truly the dominate force in WWE. Triple H tried. He fought well. Only his aid at WrestleMania to get one victory ended up being his ultimate downfall once he went to that well yet again. This was fabulous. Damn near saved the show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I pretty much agree with cody on all of extreme rules ratings, kofi/ambrose is getting to much praise here. Contemplating not watching until Punk returns, its getting ugly


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Glad you enjoyed Brock Vs Hunter as much as I did Cody, and I think it's rather ridiculous to say that Brock Vs Hunter is the worst big trilogy ever when all three are legitimately GREAT. Agreed with all of the midcard matches being poorly slopped together as well, with the only thing I disagree with being Cena-Ryback which I didn't enjoy nearly as much as you did.

Hell, I'm glad SOMEBODY seems to enjoy Brock-Hunter as much as I do.

Watching Brock Vs Kurt from Summerslam 2003 now for my BROCK project, and I can't believe this isn't pimped out more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think SummerSlam is only solid at best, but certainly WrestleMania & Extreme Rules hit a new level of being "great" for me. Wonderful storytelling and WM in particular, was simply brutal in all aspects.

I like Ryback. I can see that being why I enjoyed the LMS still. That was the only match that really stayed the same for me. Oh and the opener. I did actually like Jericho vs Fandango more the second time around. While nothing memorable, it flowed better like I stated. Rest either went up or down.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Very good write-up and I like what you said about Lesnar/HHH. It seems all of their matches will be rather polarizing. I marked for the return of the Cerebral Assassin, and the Brock/Heyman relationship shown through as being too much to overcome. THAT'S MY MANAGER.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock/Hunter may be great, but I don't know how it fares against the other three "fantastic" PPV main events in the WWE this year :lol.

When Brock said "That's my manager" I could have sworn that I was just being delusional and that I was just hearing things, then I watched it again and BAM... He actually said it. Fucking awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock saying that made me mark out so hard right now  

I missed it the first go. I'm gonna have to do reviews like this for each WWE PPV from now on. Two time is the charm. Get a better grasp on the event as a whole. The feedback is always appreciated for you lads. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

brock/hunter series

ss 12 ****1/4
er 13 ****
wm 29 ***


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Heyman's entire involvement was great, as was his interaction with Lesnar. "PAUL, MY KNEE." GOAT. Fuck I'm marking just remembering this stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Brock/Hunter may be great, but I don't know how it fares against the other three "fantastic" PPV main events in the WWE this year :lol.
> 
> When Brock said "That's my manager" I could have sworn that I was just being delusional and that I was just hearing things, then I watched it again and BAM... He actually said it. Fucking awesome.


I know right? Cena & Rock main eventing in 2013 has = ...

wait can we even make a joke about this? I was a dunce and laughed when Brock vs Trips main evented last night. Boy how the egg is on my face.



redskins25 said:


> brock/hunter series
> 
> ss 12 ****1/4
> er 12 ****
> wm 29 ***


Just about the opposite for me, haha.

****** for WM & Extreme Rules. Only ***** for Summerslam.



The Lady Killer said:


> Heyman's entire involvement was great, as was his interaction with Lesnar. "PAUL, MY KNEE." GOAT. Fuck I'm marking just remembering this stuff.


It's tremendous. I hope Heyman sticks around. Could possibly be no Brock for a bit and no Punk atm either. NOOOO


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Brock/Hunter series fucking ruled. The feud itself was quite dull at times due to the whole "Brock shows up one week, HHH shows up the next" nonsense, but when they got to actually go out there and FIGHT they always did a fantastic job. Coming out of this feud, a feud with Punk would make logical sense for either Brock or Hunter, but I'm not too keen on either Punk or Brock taking another loss in a big match at this point.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I just can't get into the Brock/Trips matches. :/ I think if they did a better job building it I might have cared more but the matches just didn't do it for me.

Brock/Cena is still amazing in my eyes though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I with KOK here on not being into the build but digging the matches. I nearly fell asleep on the last RAW where Trips was talking inside the cage. Thankfully the match was loads better than the promo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Can see why the HHH/Lesnar matches have been so polarizing, cool to see more people appreciating last night's bout though. Looking forward to watching it again. Will probably re-watch the Summerslam match too for a definite rating on all three matches. I'm quite sure my favourite will remain the cage match though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn near shocked you liked Lesnar/Trips so much, Cody. I was surfin through here and literally yelled WHAT!? That's how shocked. haha. Didn't think it was anywhere close to the Mania match, but whatevs. At least SOMEONE else is noticing Orton bury his opponents left and right in gimmick matches, now if C2D would just catch on. 

Cena was really bad in his match. The botched reverse sleeper, the incredibly sloppy actual sleeper, then that awful looking splash through the table. Bad.



ATF said:


> Yup, said match had dope storytelling and awesome selling. Nowhere near Eddie/JBL but still ***1/2 stuff.
> 
> Punk/Umaga was just a faster version of Sheamus/Henry. Don't watch it.


That's... insane. haha. I've never known ANYONE that liked Orton vs. Dusty. It's terrible... 



FluxCapacitor said:


> JTG and Shad had a strap match? :lmao
> 
> Infact... JTG had a singles match on Pay Per View?!


Hahaha. Yep, Extreme Rules 2010. Again, wasn't very good.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Promos were bad, and the matches were worse. I legit can't think of a worse big trilogy of matches than Lesnar/HHH, so I stand by that statement. Just filth.

I could get behind Punk working with either one for a program though, which seems likely. Only because the use of at least one full-timer may actually help. Sounds crazy, I know.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar to get PAYBACK on Cena for beating him @ last year's ER plz. For the title too. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Damn near shocked you liked Lesnar/Trips so much, Cody. I was surfin through here and literally yelled WHAT!? That's how shocked. haha. Didn't think it was anywhere close to the Mania match, but whatevs. At least SOMEONE else is noticing Orton bury his opponents left and right in gimmick matches, now if C2D would just catch on.
> 
> Cena was really bad in his match. The botched reverse sleeper, the incredibly sloppy actual sleeper, then that awful looking splash through the table. Bad.


It shocked myself while watching it. It was less than 12 hours ago I was just waiting for the match to be over and hoping Brock would get the W. Now it's one of my favorites from the year, lolz.

Oh Randy. I really do stand by my point that if Randy would have played the underdog role the match would have been a ton better.

Thankfully Cena didn't do much in it as he was getting tossed around. Only the two crappy sleepers. I didn't mind the splash. Cena jumping off a railing has to look about as ugly as it did. I fully expected that spot to appear that way. Ryback's head bouncing off the ground added to the quality. I mean, it made it work :side:

EDIT - BROCK for WWE Championship imo.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

@TLK, Lesnar shouldn't be losing though.

But, neither should Punk which is the only reason I'm against Punk/Lesnar right now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Since KOK somewhat mentioned it, I'd maybe call Lesnar/HHH the worst main event of 2012 so far, as only Rock/Cena really challenges it in that regard. It's not even that I think it was "bad" as a match itself, but bad for the level they've built the match up on. 

Lesnar/HHH just don't click. Wouldn't call any of their matches great. Summerslam was good, but that's the top for them. They've done so many things wrong match-wise, promo-wise, feud-wise, not even just talking the matches themselves as the worst big trilogy of all time (can't think of any worse right now), the whole feud has been the worst big feud in a good while... and it's made even worse by the fact it's been going on for a year. And Lesnar, even with winning the feud, still comes out looking worse than he did going in.

So yeah, hopefully they never cross paths again and Lesnar can move onto other wrestlers he might have chemistry with or he can just be the unstoppable monster he is, and destroy whoever he faces. 

As far as Punk goes, him missing has really hit the show's quality hard. He deserves a nice long break, but at the same time he can't come back soon enough.

Edit: While I'd love to see Lesnar/Cena for Payback, it looks like Cena/Ryback might be continuing into the PPV and Lesnar might be gone for awhile.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed, Lesnar should beat Cena this time around. Lesnar really shouldn't be losing any more matches until he faces Taker/Rock (I'd like him to beat Rock but I don't see it happening).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd prefer this Brock vs Rock thingy to go away and never have a chance at coming back, tbhayley.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The only match Lesnar should lose imo from here on out is his last one, which is hopefully against Taker at WM31. Everything else should be similar to his match against Cena, only Lesnar ends up winning.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yes I was hoping for a delrio/show LMS smackdown type performance from Randell as he would play the underdog babyface getting the shit handed to him in the beginning but Nope


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I'd prefer this Brock vs Rock thingy to go away and never have a chance at coming back, tbhayley.


Agreed.



Gamblor said:


> The only match Lesnar should lose imo from here on out is his last one, which is hopefully against Taker at WM31. Everything else should be similar to his match against Cena, only Lesnar ends up winning.


Agreed. I wish he had some more dates to work a few squash matches on Raw a la Zach Gowen & Spanky.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I'd prefer this Rock thingy to go away and never have a chance at coming back, tbhayley.


* FIXED.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> I'd prefer this Brock vs Rock thingy to go away and never have a chance at coming back, tbhayley.


No way that match is happening now anyway. His injury fucked up a lot of his outside WWE endeavors and I am willing to bet hes pressurized to stay out of the ring. Rock's done. Which I am fine with, its for the better looking at it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> * FIXED.


8*D

It means no wasted match for Brock. I approve.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I really dont want to see Brock/rock at ALL


----------



## Buttermaker (Sep 29, 2009)

Hey everyone, if you are a fan of Jushin Liger or John Morrison I recommend giving this match a view.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Love Brock and what he brings to the table but I feel like he has been in wasted matches since Summerslam. Last two matches for the guy have been pointless.

BUT, its always good to see him, and he just gets to fuck shit up,so I am sure personally as long as he gets to do that, he doesn't even give a shit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alright, it's review time now I've watched every match on the show!

*Extreme Rules 2013:*

Chris Jericho vs Fandango - ★★½
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston - ★★½
Sheamus vs Mark Henry - ★★¼
Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - ★★½
The Shield vs Team Hell No - ★★★
Randy Orton vs Big Show - ★★★¼
John Cena vs Ryback - ★★★½
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - ★★★★​
- Not a bad opener. Enjoyed this more than their Wrestlemania match and other than the botched roll-up, I thought it flowed rather smoothly. Also a kick-ass finish to boot.

- I was completely indifferent but in the end, I thought both did their job here well enough. Ambrose as US Champion should be interesting and I liked a couple of the moves he did such as the Chickenwing Crossface and the Butterfly Superplex. The biggest transitional champion in history and the king of midcards didn't drag it down or anything either with his predictable offense. Add me to the list of people who hate Kofi's 5 moves of doom. It looks so unimpactful and shit, specially the last "clothesline" when he jumps.

- These two could have done a much better job in a straight up singles match but instead, they got stuck with this strap nonsense and therefore, limited with what they could do. Some parts were clever such as Sheamus touching every corner after Mark as he was being carried and the end result is an okay match but at the same time, also dull so I wouldn't blame anyone if they think of it less.

- The "I Quit" match was good with the action but the frequent asking got annoying. I know neither guys are anything to write home about on the mic but a little trash talking wouldn't have hurt. And the towel nonsense was unneeded but didn't piss me off as much as it did others. I knew Swagger had no chance winning it so I called the restart from a mile away.

- The show really starts to pick up from here onwards. I missed this last night but just caught it in fast-paced version on youtube. :lol Made it even more fun to watch. A bit short but the constant action keeps the rating up and that finish was just wonderful! Also Kane & Bryan had some great double-team moves here.

- I might be the only one who likes it but whatever. I've learned to accept that regardless of what Orton does, he'll get hated and if a match of his gets rated well, it's all credited to the other guy. As for me, I enjoy his work per normal and this was no different. I've wanted Orton vs Show on PPV for a while and finally got my request. Still not as good as I hoped it'd be, though. Starts off well with Show controlling and Orton occasionally getting in some offense but dragged towards the end when it slowed down. However, the return of the punt makes up for it! :mark: Also disagree with Orton "burying" Show just because of that ladder spot. It was ONE fucking spot in the entire match and when Show got to kick out of the RKO, I don't think "bury" is the right word to use around here.

- Another good Last Man Standing match. Both, specially Ryback, looked strong in this one and I liked it. He completely destroyed Cena in the beginning parts of the match and then it became more even with Cena fighting back. Some cool spots such as the splash onto a table in the crowd and the environment around them was used pretty well. Would have preferred a double count-out ending but I'm fine with what we got. It keeps the belt on Cena like they intended and they didn't job Ryback out even more. I do think it would have helped if Cena sold the leg injury a bit more as it went on. It seems like he completely forgot about it halfway through. And fuck the commentary post-match. I absolutely hate it when Cole and Lawler enter whisper mode to sell a "serious injury".

- Finally a Lesnar vs HHH match I really enjoyed. It was about time we got it and I'm not surprised that it took a steel cage to make it really work. Awesome from the get go as Triple H FINALLY connects with a top rope move that doesn't get countered. Then the awesomeness just rolls on with Lesnar selling the knee like a champion (literally a minute after I asked myself "why doesn't he wear kneepads?") and Hunter working on it. Heyman is also awesome on the outside with his talking. Some may say the crowd is dead but I think this was a million times better than the crowd their previous two matches had combined. At least they make a little bit of noise and occasionally try starting a chant. That helped my enjoyment a little bit but the work of both guys and Heyman is what made this one great. Another mark-out moment was seeing Hunter with that heelish, sadistic smile on his face as he took out the sledgehammer from the top of the cage. With a bit of interference from Heyman, Lesnar eventually manages to put Hunter down for the three count to mercifully close this painful feud. My only complaint is that Lesnar looked a bit too weak with the reliance on Heyman and having to work as the underdog with an injured knee. But his awesome selling and quotes like "That's my manager" make up for it. So yeah, this was awesome and I think I'ma have to give it another watch!

*Overall:* ★★¾ out of ★★★★★ (Started off pretty weak with a group of subpar but not terrible matches only to get on a roll in the second half with every match being better than the previous one. Not the best Extreme Rules by a long shot and certainly not as good as last year, but I'm extremely satisfied with what I got. In the midst of horrible TV shows, this turned out to deliver.)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I should get on the Liger vs Morrison match right now. Gots to watch Morrison vs Steen too.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Ryback busting out the backpack stunner had me :claping. Just because it seemed to come out the blue, I forgot he had that move in his arsenal. 

Cena going for a flying submission by jumping into Ryback's lap had me like  though. I guess it was supposed to be a flying take down into a guillotine? Maybe a rana but he didn't get up high enough.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Liger/Morrison? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah it happened during WM weekend for WrestleCon iirc. :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

After reading all the thoughts in here I'm kind of afraid to say that I.......enjoyed the majority of the show last night. Don't hate me lol. I watched it back again today and enjoyed it on the second watch too with most things staying at the mark I originally had them upon the live viewing. Some thoughts on the stuff that stuck out to me the most. 

*Strap match* was super fun. Most seemed to have hated it but I really liked it and it all made sense to me. I liked how it played out and some of the spots were cool. Loved Seamus hitting the turnbuckles after Henry whilst on his shoulders. The end with Henry blocking the final turnbuckle was a nice spot too. 

*****

*Cena/Ryback*. Well here you have it, Ryback was rather awesome in this and was the backbone of the match if you ask me. Loved his dominance for the majority of the match. All his power moves at the beginning were great. Loved him just wrecking Cena with high impact move after high impact move. After the spear through the barricade it all kind of went to shit though. Speaking of which, I think we've had that barricade spot at least 3 times this year already. It's becoming played out. They ought to leave it for a while. But yes, the ending was silly and anybody who watched the post show would know that it only got even sillier with Cena just brushing the whole thing off as usual. I also didn't like the fact that Cena's ankle injury was such a huge part of the build to this thing, it was a Last Man Standing match yet the ankle was barely worked on. I would have liked to have seen more on that front and think it would have taken the match from good to great. The whole point of a LMS is to make your opponent unable to answer a 10 count. If he has a bad leg then why wouldn't the leg be your main target? That irked me a little but I still enjoyed this for the most part and that was in large part down to Ryback. Figure that one out. 

****1/2*

*Ambrose/Kofi* was short but I really enjoyed it. Loved the work from Ambrose. He's the main reason I liked it so much. Wouldn't go above ***3/4* though I will say that I can't remember the last time I enjoyed a Kofi singles match as much as this one. Post match celebration was amazing. The US title looked more prestigious just for sitting on Ambrose's shoulder already. 

*Tornado Tag* was great just as most were anticipating. Rollins/Reigns as a duo worked really well and we saw some actual tag moves from Hell No in this which I liked. I've been wanting them to split for a while but now that it's set to happen I'm going to miss them lol. Reigns is a BEAST. YOU TRY TO BREAK MY ARM IMMA BREAK YO FACE!. Loved that. The finish was brilliant and I love that it was a tag move/joint effort that got Shield the win because they are a TEAM in every sense of the word. Again, the post match celebration was awesome and I marked out. Felt like genuine change in the air too and I felt like I was watching the start of something special which is always a nice feeling to have given today's wrestling climate. 

****1/4*

*Bork/Game*....loved it. LOVED it. It's funny. Every time these guys have a match it's the exact opposite of what I'm expecting it to be but yet I still end up enjoying it. Well SS and this one anyway. I'm not comfortable speaking on Mania yet since I've only seen it once. I really need to watch it again. But I'm here to talk about the cage match. I thought this had a lot of layers and they played off a lot of good shit. What a multifaceted match. In the end, the only thing that's able to defeat Brock Lesnar and/or truly hurt him is Brock Lesnar. Loved the call back to the match with Cena at ER last year with the knee jump into the cage. In the Cena match there was no cage to stop him from spilling over to the outside and when he went to hit the knee for the second time he ended up getting clocked with the chain and ultimately losing the match. Here, he tried to essentially do the same thing and ended up fucking up his knee in the process. It also ties into the SS match where both the knee and stomach injuries weren't caused intentionally but HHH smelled blood in the water and was able to capitalise if only briefly. The difference between both those matches and the Cena match is that in the end, Lesnar was able to overcome and win despite being hurt and look like a FUCKING BEAST in the process. Wow. I also loved how we got HHH reverting back to his Cerebral Assasin ways here with the sledgehammer and that dickhead smirk. MASSIVE :lmao at the sharpshooter. You see folks. This is why Trips is the GOAT. Everybody thought he was going to bury Brock and instead he buried Bret Hart without even having to open his mouth. That killed me. Awesome. More goodies was the exposure of the Brock/Heyman alliance and how they are completely interlinked together. Heyman adds so much to everything he does and the pairing with Lesnar just fits on so many levels. Of course I have to talk about Lesnar's GOAT selling. Jesus. That's 2 matches where the guy had me thinking he was legit hurt. MY KNEE. IT'S HURT BAD PAUL. DAMMIT. THAT'S MY MANAGER. Golden, just golden. The commentators playing on the 'live by the sword, die by the sword' motto was a real nice touch along with Lesnar placing the sledgehammer on Trips chest when it was all over to signify just that. Great way to cap things off. I know a lot of people are crying over Brock supposedly looking weak after this feud but I don't see it. The pedigree has no effect on him. At all. He basically no sold it and tapped HHH out clean as a whistle in the first match. In the second it took a SCM, a low blow (iirc), a sledgehammer to the face, repeated kimura locks and a pedigree on the steps to beat him. And now in the third match he was working with one leg, withstood the figure four, the sharpshooter and the pedigree and came out with the win. People are still going to bitch about Brock looking weak and all that but hey, whiners gna whine, haters gna hate, Borks gna Bork, Games gna Game. Whatever. This match is awesome. Watch and appreciate. 

******

Solid PPV overall in my eyes. I guess that's an unpopular opinion but I enjoyed it. Sad to see both Brock and Trips gone now and I have no idea where they're going with Cena/Ryback now but lol wherever it is. Personally I'd LOVE to see Brock/Cena for the title with Brock getting his PAYBACK because the alternatives flat out suck in comparison. Cena triumphing over Ryback? Ryback triumphing over Cena? Meh. 

*Lesnar/HHH - **** & MOTN
Ryback/Cena - ***1/2
Shield/Hell No - ***1/4
Seamus/Henry - ***
Ambrose/Kofi - **3/4
*​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

i actually really enjoyed the tornado tag and if give more time could of been great

and like I said you shave off the first 10=15 mins of brock/hunter and it goes from a **** to ****1/4+ for me


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah the more I read reviews like those of Cody and Starbuck, the more I want to watch Lesnar/HHH again. I liked it when I was watching live, but after reminiscing a bit and thinking about all the nuances of the story being told, I think I'd like it even more.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate's Current WWE MOTY Rankings (As of 5/20/13)

_**** 1/2_

1. John Cena Vs CM Punk (Monday Night RAW 2/25)
2. The Undertaker Vs CM Punk (Wrestlemania XXIX)

_**** 1/4_

3. The Shield Vs John Cena/Ryback/Sheamus (Elimination Chamber 2013)

_****_

4. Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar (Steel Cage Match; Extreme Rules 2013)

_*** 3/4_

5. CM Punk Vs Ryback (TLC Match; RAW 1/7)
6. Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar (No Holds Barred; Wrestlemania XXIX)
7. The Shield Vs The Undertaker/Kane/Daniel Bryan (RAW 4/22)
8. The Shield Vs Sheamus/Big Show/Randy Orton (Wrestlemania XXIX)

Need to watch Regal/Ohno + it feels like I'm missing a match here for some reason.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Did someone say Morrison/Steen? WHEN WHERE AND HOW?!

And my MOTY candidates:

Punk/Cena - Raw Feb '13 - ****1/4
Punk/Taker - WM XXIX - ****1/4
Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback - EC '13 - ****1/4
Shield vs Taker/Kane/Bryan - Raw April '13 - ****
Ryback vs Bryan - SD May '13 - ***3/4

Some real gems on TV this year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think I'll watch BROCK vs Hunter again before tomorrow. Loved it so much the first time. Might be my MOTY so far too. Alongside Elimination Chamber, Punk/Taker, Cena/Punk - it's one of my ★★★★ matches from this year.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> The Beast Incarnate's Current WWE MOTY Rankings (As of 5/20/13)
> 
> _**** 1/2_
> 
> ...


Punk/Jericho, perhaps? That's a forgotten gem. ***3/4 for it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*****1/4:

Shield vs. Cena/Ryback/Seamus, EC 

****:

Brock/HHH, ER
Shield vs. Jericho, Ryback, Sheamus, Raw
Cena/Punk, Raw

***3/4:

Ohno/Regal, NXT
Shield vs. Taker, Kane, Bryan, Raw*

That's what I have so far and they aren't in any order. I haven't included Taker/Punk or HHH/Brock from Mania 29 yet because I've only seen them once a piece and obviously need to see them again before giving out snowflakes.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK IS GOD. BROCKTAGON. BROCKTAGOD.

CM Punk's still WOTY and we're almost half way through this fucking thing. Top two matches of the year W/ Taker & Cena as well as fantastic TV bouts with Ryback and Jericho. When he gets back I'm almost 100 percent sure that he'll continue to fuck shit up while Bryan doesn't get the correct booking to be WOTY, Brock continues to be a part timer, & Cena continues to get stuck with sub par opponents like Ryback.

ANYWHOWAYZ, watched Brock-Angle-Show & Brock-Angle II today and I was impressed, especially when it came to the quality of the latter. I don't think Brock-Angle II is better than Brock-Benoit by any stretch, but it's certainly capable of being a top five match for that year. When people see my Brock list they're probably gonna think that I'm one of those guys who throws four stars at everything which isn't really true at all, I just think Brock is one of the elite workers in WWE history.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I can't come up with a MOTY list just yet since everything I've seen so far, other than Cena/Punk and Undertaker/Punk has been below ****. Just nothing spectacular this year imo, which is completely different from last year where we got legit MOTYCs on a near weekly basis.

I need to check out Ohno/Regal apparently, though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

CM Punk? I don't know no CM Punk. Who dat?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Brock really just _gets_ it. It's pretty obvious, given that all of his matches feel a bit more real than most.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock vs Angle II is absolutely awesome. I need to rewatch the ironman match but SummerSlam is on par with it based on the last time I saw them. Despite being a massive Benoit fan, I have quite a few Brock matches above that one although it's still an awesome match.

Who's the greatest opponent Lesnar hasn't had? I think either Austin or Jericho.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins MOTY list

1punk/cena feb ****1/2
2punk/taker wm 29 ****1/2
3ziggles/fella me ****1/4
4ziggles/del rio me ****1/4
5hhh/brock er 13 ****
6superfriends/shield ec ****

HM: del rio/show sd lms


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK/Lesnar or Bryan/Lesnar would be great.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MOTY list? Meh, nothing changed I'm pretty sure from when I last posted a list so far. Maybe the tornado tag is somewhere towards the bottom, but that's all I can think of. ER was just disappointing all over, from the opener to the main event. Biggest (positive) surprise was Cena/Ryback not being terrible.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lesnar vs. Sheamus or Lesnar vs. Bryan. Both could be godly.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy crap, Reigns/Rollins vs Hell No from ER was so much freaking fun. So much action in just 7 minutes. And it even had a false finish! I legit thought that it was going to end once Reigns hit the spear on Kane. Did not expect Bryan to make the save. And him going in beast mode just made it even that more epic. Awesome freaking match. 

Man, could you imagine if that was the finishing stretch after about 15 minutes?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed, I thought the match was over then as well. I wish it would've gotten at least twice the amount of time it did.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, Brock really just _gets_ it. It's pretty obvious, given that all of his matches feel a bit more real than most.


Very true. Brock Lesnar is one of the most naturally gifted and athletically talented performers in the history of the business. He does get how to present his character and be a storyteller in a way unlike any other in my opinion. If Brock Lesnar had the passion of a John Cena combined with all of his talent he would have an even greater legacy. The things Brock has already done in the short amount of time he has performed in the business is amazing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, the fact that he's really only back for an "easy" paycheck yet still churning out amazing individual performances when his heart isn't likely all that in it speaks volumes. Anyone else in that position would likely mail it in (Rock), but Lesnar is just a natural so he makes it happen even if he's not as committed as someone like Cena.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Lesnar came back last year and put on, what was imo, the MOTY. Man, I wish he'd stuck around longer. 

Does anyone else think that Lesnar crossing over to MMA upped his psychology a bit? I'm not saying he never had storytelling down pact but being involved in actual fights must have definitely added to trying to make the work look like a shoot.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I wonder what we'll see on Raw tonight. Triple H coming out and demanding a rematch?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Didn't catch Extreme Rules last night, but it looks like I should check out the tag title match and the co main events, I know what I'm doing before RAW


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit at how awesome HBK/Lesnar would have been. ***** material in theory, imo.

Edit: Thanks Jack Evans.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lesnar's storytelling ability and aura is unmatched in today's WWE, and I can think of very few individuals throughout history who I'd have better than him in the "quality" department. Like Clique said a few posts ago, Brock's perhaps the most naturally gifted worker there has ever been and I don't think I can come up with a very compelling argument against that. If Brock had the passion of a John Cena and never left in 2004 I think he'd be mentioned now as one of the greatest workers of all time, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to go ahead and put him there anyways without the enormous amounts of quantity. 

WOOLCOCK & Hohenheim Of Light got into a really good discussion a few weeks back about Volk Han & the idea of quantity Vs quality that got me thinking about where I'd place BROCK amongst the ranks in WWE history until I came to a decision; whenever Brock was/is around, he was/is the absolute pinnacle of quality when it comes to being a main event worker. He doesn't have the quantity of a guy such as Shawn Michaels or a Chris Jericho, but in terms of overall quality and the ratio of great matches : matches had, Lesnar wrecks both of them IMO & I'm a huge Jericho fan. From 2002-2004 I would put Lesnar up in the ranks with Benoit/Eddie/Rey while today I think that if he worked full time he might edge Punk out for the best in the company.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As someone who found only one of the Lesnar/HHH matches "good" (as if I haven't said it enough since last night), I'm not fully on the Lesnar train. No doubt he's a great workers and has almost unmatchable presence and an awesome aura, but to call him among the best workers... I don't know. I can see where you're coming from I suppose if we're taking pre-2004 Brock, as Brock's ratio of great matches to all the matches he's had is very impressive, but for current Brock at least, the whole Lesnar/HHH stuff has partly put a damper on Lesnar for me. Only partly though as for the most part I'm attributing their disappointing series to Lesnar having no chemistry with HHH. I mean, it happens. Nothing you can do about it. When we see current Lesnar mix it up with other guys, we'll see how great of a worker he is currently, and if he deserves the praise some have put on him. I'm on the fence until I see another great match from him at least.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't think I'd ever be able to put Brock's work over HBK. I love Brock and he puts on great matches, but HBK was on a whole different level, imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk on a level above everyone :hbk2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think Shawn has more "classic" matches due to having a bigger body of work, but in terms of a textbook Brock match Vs a textbook Shawn match, I'd take Lesnar any day of the week & twice on Sundays. Michaels in 96-97 was truly something to behold & during his 2002-2010 run I thought he was in the middle to upper echelon of workers in the company, but I definitely think that Brock was the more consistent worker of the two despite Michaels having about 600 more televised matches than Lesnar .

& I'm a bigger fan of Shawn then alot of guys on here for sure. To each his own (unless you like 2012 - 2013 Rock, then I can't save you or defend you) though, that's what this thread is all about. Shit would be boring if everybody had the same opinion at the end of the day.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The difference between your average Lesnar match and your average Cena/HBK/Jericho/HHH/etc match is that aside from Brock's supernatural aura, his matches don't strike me as overly formulaic. Perhaps it's because we only see him fight every few months, but take your average Raw match, and for the most part it's just 2 guys going through the motions. With Brock's matches, it's those special intangibles that make me glued to everything he does much moreso than anyone else on the roster.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think I'd take Lesnar over Jericho. I CAN see why someone would take over Michaels. KINDA. But I sure as hell wouldn't. I mean I kind of loathe most 2002-2010 Michaels and Brock's 2 and a half years fucking destroy him then, but Michaels' 94-97 plus the Rockers win it for him. Honestly I think Michaels' Rockers run alone is better than Brock's career. I'd be interesting to see what kind of career Lesnar would have in he had a real ten year run. I mean he's had more matches than Volk Han, but he's no fucking Volk Han and few people are. Volk Han is possibly the greatest of all time at making wrestling look real (well, it 'shoot style' wrestling, but not a ton of people make that look real, either). And he has the greatest match list of all time match-by-match. Never had a bad match. Hell, I don't remember Han having an average match.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Brye said:


> I don't think I'd ever be able to put Brock's work over HBK. I love Brock and he puts on great matches, but HBK was on a whole different level, imo.


Oh hell yeah, HBK gets you emotionally invested in a match in a whole different way. Can't describe it, really, but I guess his feud with HHH heading into SS and his feud with Jericho are prime examples.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Might need to see what all this Volk Han hubbub is about.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25wch_smackdown-24-11-2006-chris-benoit-v_sport#.UZqyO7U2iKI

Wow, this is another awesome match Benoit and Finlay had. So now it's on to Survivor Series for me! (and then December 2 Dismember *sigh*)

Tomorrow is Benoit's birthday so I'll make sure to watch as much of his matches as possible. Maybe even all his title victories


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yeah1993 could you just explain a little more why you loathe hbk 00s run ? I love to hear. I'm not one of this poster that "because I think Shawn the greatest and he was great in the 00s also so its a sin for you to believe so". If I had to stack his career into parts in ring wise it would be late 90s>>>rockers>>>>00s


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Anybody think we'll see Lesnar work a match with no gimmicks in this run?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

summerslam was no gimmick hhh just told the ref to let it play out more


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> summerslam was no gimmick hhh just told the ref to let it play out more


It was billed as a No DQ. I dont think we've had Lesnar in just a straight up match yet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

While I thought a ton about both Brock vs Triple H matches this year, I'd possibly say my top three matches from WWE this year are:

1) Undertaker vs CM Punk
2) William Regal vs Kassius Ohno
3) The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback

Brock vs Trips x2 & Punker vs Cena are VERY close to the list. I can't see how anyone says this year has only had one or two great matches. I can name six off the top of my head that can arguably be interchangeable for top three and/or number one. Much like WWE as a whole, this year has its share of crap. Yet when it hits; it hits very well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cody, I believe it was you that rated Summer Rae/Paige fairly high. Watched it last night and it was pretty awesome. Dunno what I'd rate it, but it was pretty good. (Y)

Also today I watched some Christian. 

Christian/Del Rio - Extreme Rules '11 - ****
Christian/Orton - MITB '11 - ***1/2
Christian/Jericho - WM 20 - ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Paige & Summer Rae are two characters who get time and depth to add to their matches. I really liked their rematch a few weeks ago. Summer Rae had a good match vs Natalya this past week too. Def worth seeing.

Perhaps I should give Christian/Del Rio the whole college try again. I know I was vastly underwhelmed, much to my dismay. I was way bigger on their wonderful singles matches from Smackdown prior. Specficially their post-WM 27 match. That one was really really good. I liked their cage match too.

Christian vs Orton at MITB was one I'm lukewarm from an "action" perspective, but got a kick out of from the storytelling point of view. I only wished the post match beatdown didn't occur. Christian getting to taunt around after the ultra cheap win would've rocked.

Christian vs Jericho. Wonderful. The DVD cuts the slight botch out. It never happened. Only a great match for nearly 15 minutes. :hb


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Paige & Summer Rae are two characters who get time and depth to add to their matches. I really liked their rematch a few weeks ago. Summer Rae had a good match vs Natalya this past week too. Def worth seeing.
> 
> Perhaps I should give Christian/Del Rio the whole college try again. I know I was vastly underwhelmed, much to my dismay. I was way bigger on their wonderful singles matches from Smackdown prior. Specficially their post-WM 27 match. That one was really really good. I liked their cage match too.
> 
> ...


Agreed. They actually have like a legitimate feud and everything. I was impressed.

I'd give it one more shot. Christian sells like a champ and Brodus was actually badass at the time of it. Ending is a little meh but I think it's a good match.

Agreed. It was more of a story based match but I didn't like Orton getting the last laugh considering it was Christian's only win in the feud.

And I was always a big fan of the Christian/Jericho/Trish feud. Real good stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of many contributing points that make NXT so strong altogether. Not only are the men's portions engrossing; the women's too all the same.

Noted. I can pop it in tonight and see how things change. Or if they do. I'd like to embrace it being stronger, I really would. At worst, I'll feel the same about it and just watch Mysterio vs Rhodes from the same night and mark out. 

While Christian would look better come the following four weeks, WWE was bleh on the way out for Christian on the PPV. idk. It was all pointless despite Orton being mad with rage for losing his championship. At the same time, that was his own fault. He played right into Christian's hands. Ahhhh I stopped caring for that program following Over The Limit. Christian is a good heel, but such a stronger babyface.

Fun program. One I'll always look back on and enjoy. (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... HHH vs. Curt Axel tonight. I'm actually looking forward to this. Will be fresh seeing HHH mix it up with a younger talent similar to how it was fresh seeing Taker do the same with Ambrose. I'm fully expecting a HHH win, but unlike against Lesnar, that's more than fine. If they're really going with Axel as the next "Paul Heyman Guy", then hopefully he looks good.

Will be interesting to say the least.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> So... HHH vs. Curt Axel tonight. I'm actually looking forward to this. Will be fresh seeing HHH mix it up with a younger talent similar to how it was fresh seeing Taker do the same with Ambrose. I'm fully expecting a HHH win, but unlike against Lesnar, that's more than fine. If they're really going with Axel as the next "Paul Heyman Guy", then hopefully he looks good.
> 
> Will be interesting to say the least.





Spoiler: My thoughts (just in case people haven't seen



I'm really hoping Trips doesn't just destroy him. I think it could do big if someone actually went over or looked good against Trips. Plus Axel isn't a bad talent.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH WRESTLING ON RAW :mark:.

Anybody else think that we could get HHH Vs Heyman @ Payback only to have a Cena-Ace esque finish with Punk returning to cost HHH the match, setting up Punk Vs HHH to main event Summerslam?

BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE FUCKING AWESOME.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> HHH WRESTLING ON RAW :mark:.
> 
> Anybody else think that we could get HHH Vs Heyman @ Payback only to have a Cena-Ace esque finish with Punk returning to cost HHH the match, setting up Punk Vs HHH to main event Summerslam?
> 
> BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE FUCKING AWESOME.


If they do that, please don't give it the time or the main event spot that Cena/Johnny got. For the love of god please.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I'd rather the screwjob be on Raw but I'm so down for Punker and Hunter


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> yeah1993 could you just explain a little more why you loathe hbk 00s run ? I love to hear. I'm not one of this poster that "because I think Shawn the greatest and he was great in the 00s also so its a sin for you to believe so". If I had to stack his career into parts in ring wise it would be late 90s>>>rockers>>>>00s


He has crappy looking offense, his bumps aren't convincing (he'd do the 'flip over turnbuckle' thing on even the weakest Irish whips and it'd look stupid) and I find the way he's a fills a match in the 00s pretty ass-boring, but his bad over-acting is the kicker. Not even really ACTING acting, but the way he looks tired and shakes to get up after a big move (only to kip-up later) is something I just got really tired of seeing. Maybe it's because I re-watched a lot of 00s Michaels in bulk, but I started to cringe whenever I saw him do stuff like that. There are 2000s Michaels I like (Mania Flair match, two Cena matches, Benoit matches in 04, Jeff Hardy match in 08, Taker match in 09, GAB Jericho) and 'loathe' was a hyperbole, but the majority of it is stuff I don't care to see again. Some of it I really do loathe. 

I reckon I'd go Rockers >>>>>> 90s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(I'd stretch the page) 00s. 


-----

TAJIRI


Yoshihiro Tajiri v. Super Crazy (ECW on TNN 1/21/00)
Tajiri was easily the best wrestler in the US in 2000, and he and Crazy had a million match ups that year. I don’t remember the rest of them well enough to say whether or this is the best one, but it sure as shit made me want to go back and watch all of them again. Tajiri is fucking phenomenal. Mauls Crazy with bunches of kicks and weapons (his chair tree-of-woe baseball slides look brutal). Then when Crazy gets really dizzy he sits next to him and mocks him. The spot where Tajiri slides chair across the table to break Crazy’s nose has been talked about, and it’s as insane as everyone makes it out to be. One of those chairs launch into the crowd, and they’re basically horrified when Tajiri has no more need for weapons, because he just CHUCKS them. They put their arms up and back away when he gets rid of a table. So great. I could see how Crazy’s comeback feels kind of no-selly, but I was way less bothered by it now than I was before (and I was barely bothered by it). What I really love this was how it basically a ‘setting up spots’ match, but every single one of those spots felt like the two guys wanted to win the match, or, in Tajiri’s case, mutilate the opponent. A wrench to the teeth? Goddamn. PS he also throws the wrench haphazardly and it may have flown into the crowd. The mist finish with Crazy still being able to send Tajiri down was done really well. Tajiri for president. 

Yoshihiro Tajiri v. Super Crazy v. Little Guido (ECW on TNN 4/14/00)
So Tajiri and Crazy just proved you can have a ‘setting up spots’ weaponfest and make it look good. Now these three guys prove you have a ‘setting up spots’ weaponfest THREE-WAY and made THAT good look. This is more proof that Tajiri’s a WOTYC in 2000 and it’s a fucking excellent match. He finds even more creative ways to use shit. Setting up Guido’s head on the chair and then kicking the back of the chair, dropkicking the table into Guido so he flies off of the apron, and he sets up an insane double-person table/chair spot that I kind of wished was hit. Guido took a motherfucking arsekicking. I think he got four offensive moves this whole thing. I have no problem with that, though, because he ate this shit like a champ and was willing to fling himself here and there. Big Sal (Guido’s PHATASS buddy) got involved a decent deal of this, and Crazy did some really cool shit with him. The best might be him using Sal’s back as a trampoline to fly into Guido and Tajiri. Post-Guido (elimination rules) we get a ref bump and Corino/Victory/Rhino entering, and I kind of like the Super Crazy v. the World (or, the network, I guess) thing from there onward. Corino gives Tajiri a crowbar and no matter how well they hide that shit with camera angles and hands covering the crowbar itself, that shit just looks nasty. I’m thinking this is one of those matches that could wind up as my #100 (thanks to Tajiri, mainly). Fuck WrestleMania 20, fuck Vengeance 2002, fuck DDP/Raven/Benoit and fuck the main event of the first ROH show. As of my memory right now - this is the best 3-way I’ve seen from the US. 

Yoshihiro Tajiri v. Steve Corino (Hardcore Heaven 5/14/00)
You gotta give Corino credit. It couldn’t have possibly been any easy getting over as a heel in the smarkiest crowd possible. But shit, he gets heat. Basically an extended squash with Tajiri recently-turned babyface (Corino’s heel promo pre-match and Tajiri’s INCREDIBLE facial expression were a perfect mix), but a fucking awesome extended squash. Corino is one of the most willing guys in wrestling to cut a gusher, and he bleeds everywhere here. Possibly one of the best visuals I can remember in wrestling was right in this match when Tajiri hits the baseball slide while Corino was in the tree of woe. You see Corino’s head fly back, and he leaves like a slide-mark of blood on the canvas. You see some specs on the camera, as well. The spot where Tajiri has Corino in the octopus then Jack Victory tries to break it up only for Tajiri to spit mist in his face while STILL HOLDING THE OCTOPUS was fucking incredible. Tajiri > *****.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I fucking love Tajiri and Super Crazy. Little Guido was good too though. Those guys have so many matches together and I don't remember disliking any of the ones I've seen.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> HHH WRESTLING ON RAW :mark:.
> 
> Anybody else think that we could get HHH Vs Heyman @ Payback only to have a Cena-Ace esque finish with Punk returning to cost HHH the match, setting up Punk Vs HHH to main event Summerslam?
> 
> BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE FUCKING SUCK BIG DICKS.


fyp. nobody wanted to see cena/john, nobody wants to see paul/paul


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

By the way, we had the WOTY conversation earlier and my vote goes to The shield. Tonight solidified it. I don't even care if the match isn't over yet. Everything these guys do ends up being good when it's a competitive match.

Edit: The Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Kofi - ****


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

So yeah that shield/hell no and kofi match

Holy shit


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Unbelievable how well those guys know how to put a match together.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Shield vs Hell No/Kingston= ****1/4, this was like a PWG 6 man in the WWE, fucking awesome, must see shit


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Potential MOTY. 

****1/4 for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Shield Raw match... ****1/4 right now and second best Shield match ever. Amazing stuff and also 2nd best MOTY and the TV MOTY so far.

Also coincidentally enough, Bryan has been involved in all The Shield's top 3 matches. The man was a beast in this specific one as well.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Agreed with Brye about SHIELD being wrestlers of the year and I haven't even seen tonight's match yet. 

Tuning in to Raw now for :HHH2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAW is DVRing right now, seriously considering moseying out there and watching that 6 man if it's THAT good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> RAW is DVRing right now, seriously considering moseying out there and watching that 6 man if it's THAT good.


It's THAT *AWESOME*. :miz


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Everybody tune in for HHH.

We need to ensure that GAME = RATINGS.

PS: I loved that Shield match but I don't think that I'd throw four stars at it. Once it gets the magical rewatch I think it might go up though, who knows?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

The shield match was absurdly amazing

Im not a star rating guy, but id say its ****+

its proof that tag team matches, when done right, still have place in the WWE


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> Shield Raw match... ****1/4 right now and second best Shield match ever. Amazing stuff and also 2nd best MOTY and the TV MOTY so far.
> 
> Also coincidentally enough, Bryan has been involved in all The Shield's top 3 matches. The man was a beast in this specific one as well.


I'd rank them Shield/Hell No & Ryback, Shield/Cena, Ryback & Sheamus and then Shield/Hell No & Kofi.

Actually fuck, I forgot about Kane/Taker/Bryan vs Shield. That's also **** for me. These guys are fucking animals.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> RAW is DVRing right now, seriously considering moseying out there and watching that 6 man if it's THAT good.


Definitely worth it. (Y)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brye said:


> I'd rank them Shield/Hell No & Ryback, Shield/Cena, Ryback & Sheamus and then Shield/Hell No & Kofi.
> 
> Actually fuck, I forgot about Kane/Taker/Bryan vs Shield. That's also **** for me. These guys are fucking animals.


Yeah, got it right now as:

1) TLC 2012 (vs. Hell No and Ryback)
2) Raw 5/20/2013 (vs. Hell No and Kofi)
3) Raw 4/22/2013 (vs. Taker and Hell No)

Heck, just realized all of them have Kane as well. DAT BIG RED MONSTAR! :kane


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback - TLC - ****1/2
Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback - **** 
Shield vs Sheamus/Ryback/Jericho - ***3/4
Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Taker - ****
Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Kofi - ****

Am I missing any?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brye said:


> Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback - TLC - ****1/2
> Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback - ****
> Shield vs Sheamus/Ryback/Jericho - ***3/4
> Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Taker - ****
> ...


The Mania match I think is all besides matches against jobber teams.

Edit: Oh, and lol, the last two Cena ones.

Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback - TLC - ****1/2
Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback - ***1/2
Shield vs Sheamus/Ryback/Jericho - ***3/4
Shield vs Show/Sheamus/Orton - ***1/2
Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Taker - ****
Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Cena - ***1/4
Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Cena Elimination - ***
Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Kofi - ****1/4


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yes, yes. Mania one I'd give ***1/2 as well.

Need to rewatch the Cena/Bryan/Kane vs Shield ones. I missed one and barely remember the 2nd.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Shield v Cena/Hell No was great but I'm probably the biggest fan of that match on here. I'm talking about the first one, not the elimination. Haven't seen that yet. Need to re-watch the first one too, see if my love for it holds up because I had it above the Jericho and Taker matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Shield Vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback - TLC - ***** 1/2*
Shield Vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback - ***** 1/4*
Shield Vs Sheamus/Ryback/Jericho - **** 1/2*
Shield Vs Show/Sheamus/Orton - **** 3/4*
Shield Vs Bryan/Kane/Taker - **** 3/4*
Shield Vs Bryan/Kane/Kofi - **** 3/4*
Shield Vs Tons of Funk/Kofi - *****
Shield Vs Bryan/Kane/Cena I - **** 1/4*
Shield Vs Bryan/Kane/Cena II - **** 1/4*

Shield = Beast Mode. No other way to describe it really, they're just on their A game seemingly every RAW & it doesn't look like they're going to slow down anytime soon. Anybody else getting the same vibes that I get when I hear their music hit? It's kind of like a lesser version of how I feel when Brock's music hits; you just feel fucking COOL watching them. (Note; I'd also implore everybody to check out the insanely fun 6 man tag w/ Tons of Funk & Kofi from Main Event, it's super fun and if you're a fan of SHIELD you'll love it regardless)

Also... TRIPLE H IS WRESTLING SOON. HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT :mark: :mark:.

PS: Fuck You Orton. GO AWAY.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Fuck I hate living in Australia, Raw doesnt air over here for another 24 hours  

Good to here the Shield kill it again, I must say I'm surprised with Curtis Axel as the new Paul Heyman guy But i'm always open to something new. 

The Game wrestling on RAW :mark: hopefully he brings his shovel :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Someone signal *Choke2Death*, Cole & King went into whisper mode for that finish. :lmao

Remember when everyone in here was hyped for Payback and we had high hopes for another Chicago ppv to be the best of the year? We're one match in and I don't give a fuck about it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ummm....

The fuck was that ?

I have no idea what it was, but I fucking LOVED IT.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

DAT ACTING from The Game.

Time to watch Extreme Rules.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Loved it, great cliffhanger ending to keep us all guessing what happens next.

I still say they do Heyman-Game to help set up Punk-Game at Summerslam, seems to be the obvious path at the moment with Game being at seemingly 10 percent. THAT or Axel-Game to help set up Punk-Game, either or I think we're getting HHH-Punk as Punk's return feud.

Which would make me go crazy. IN A GOOD WAY.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Ummm....
> 
> The fuck was that ?
> 
> I have no idea what it was, but I fucking LOVED IT.


lol, of course you would. 

I found it funny. HHH was beating Axel 70% of the match, ends up throwing him back in the ring, doesn't even lose the match technically and it's all about him to end the show. It was the perfect burial, without having to win the match. :lmao

But truthfully it was an awful way to end the show, in a not-so-special match that did no favors for Axel. They could've at the very least had HHH pass out in the ring and then had Axel get the 1-2-3 to at least have SOMETHING to brag about next week. I suppose he could say he's the reason HHH was in such bad condition at the end of the match, but that can only go so far. A WIN over HHH would've helped him out a lot more, even under such conditions.

Oh well :HHH

However credit where it's due, HHH sold that excellently.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Heard SHIELD turned in another stellar performance tonight. Can't wait to watch Raw. :mark:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Shield vs. Bryan/Kane/Kofi - *****1/4*

Best non-TLC Shield match


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I seriously love every Shield match, not one under ***1/2 yet, although I haven't seen Shield/Tons of Funk&Kingston. I also have never seen see the TLC match.

I know what I'm watching tomorrow :cena3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brye said:


> I fucking love Tajiri and Super Crazy. Little Guido was good too though. Those guys have so many matches together and I don't remember disliking any of the ones I've seen.


Yeah I've seen a bunch (though I haven't even seen HALF of the matches they've had together) and I remember all being pretty awesome. 



bigbuxxx said:


> fyp. nobody wanted to see cena/john, nobody wants to see paul/paul


You dropped the ball! You could have said John/John and Paul/Paul but DIDN'T. SHAME!


I still have not watch most of the Shield matches that didn't happen on PPV. I figure I'll watch them eventually in a bundle b/c there's no fucking way I am watching WWE continuously after yesterday's PPV. I'll spent that time watching Tajiri instead.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Fandango said:


> Shield vs. Bryan/Kane/Kofi - *****1/4*
> 
> Best non-TLC Shield match


Can't say I disagree. Match delivers all the time.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*World Heavyweight Championship - Chris Jericho(c) vs John Cena (Survivor Series 2008)* 










For the record this is actually the only PPV I believe I haven't seen for at least the last 6-7 years, which is an utter shame because this match is a gem. Having seen Cody and Evan pimp it, I finally decided to give it a view. What a fantastic story, this was Cena's first match back from a neck injury. So Jericho smartly attacks the neck area of Cena for practically the whole match, in which John Boy sells quite well. I love all the little elements Cena added to the match, like going to the top rope but then jumping down because last time he came off the top rope he broke his neck. Then eventually towards the end he goes up to the top rope to show he isn't afraid anymore, it may sound corny but its great storytelling. Jericho as always was great as he capitalised on all of Cena's mistakes and lapses in concentration. This is a great match, with a great story and from a poor year for WWE it may find its way into a low MOTYC. 

******

Ps: Can't wait for Raw to air over here :mark:

:hbk


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I only turned it on during the middle of the Shield match. What I saw was pretty good, of course. 

THIS TWITTER THOUGH

https://twitter.com/search?q=#PrayForTripleH&src=typd

:bron


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I only turned it on during the middle of the Shield match. What I saw was pretty good, of course.
> 
> THIS TWITTER THOUGH
> 
> ...


HOLY FUCK!!! 

This has to be the funniest thing ive seen in awhile :lmao

Lets us all pray for THE GAME!!! :buried

:HHH2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> HOLY FUCK!!!
> 
> This has to be the funniest thing ive seen in awhile :lmao
> 
> ...


SAM.

This isn't a joking matter.

#PrayForTripleH.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

#pray4TripleH


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> You dropped the ball! You could have said John/John and Paul/Paul but DIDN'T. SHAME!


FUCK MY LIFE!


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> SAM.
> 
> This isn't a joking matter.
> 
> #PrayForTripleH.


I apologize  

If i had twitter, i would send him my sympathy. My sister would be traumatized if I didnt, she is a bigger Game mark then you Evan.

#PrayForTripleH. 

:HHH2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so confused after raw


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Some of the GOAT tweets in case they get overlooked. #prayfortripleh



> anthony brennan ‏@anthbrennan 30m
> “@NotTripleH: The doctor says I have a rare disease called Unabletoputovertalentitis. He says I can't be cured. ” #PrayForTripleH


:clap



> KFG ‏@KungFu_Grip 42m
> Curtis Axel is a murderer and I don't know how to accept that. #PrayForTripleH


:lmao


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Just watched William regal vs benoit at no mercy and damnit that's the wrestling I miss . That was a damn good match for all the longer it went about 10 minutes


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Is her markdom strong enough that she can join the ranks of THE LEGION OF BURYING?

(LEGION OF BURYING - Starbuck, The Lady Killer, AlienBountyHunter, & myself.)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LEGION OF BURYING


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Is her markdom strong enough that she can join the ranks of THE LEGION OF BURYING?
> 
> (LEGION OF BURYING - Starbuck, The Lady Killer, AlienBountyHunter, & myself.)


Her markdom is insane, I throughly believe she thinks every match HHH has on a show is the MOTN regardless :lmao

Not only is she worthy, she should be the head of the LEGION OF BURYING :HHH2

She even has the HHH Garden Gnome :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:berried :HHH2

THE LEGION OF BURYING; Burying the WWE Section one post at a time.

THE HOLY SON IN LAW.

Triple H Garden Gnome :mark: :mark: :mark:.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> :berried :HHH2
> 
> THE LEGION OF BURYING; Burying the WWE Section one post at a time.
> 
> ...


She is moving to LA in 3 weeks, and she has given me the honor of looking after the HHH Garden Gnome :mark:

#Iamnotworthy


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

She's moving to California?

THE LADY KILLER.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just scrolled back a page to see what you guys were laughing about lol wow that all I really can say


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So Joe Hennig/Michael McGSomething/New Name is the third Paul Heyman guy? God, that's disappointing. There were apparently rumours floating around, and people like Scott Hall thought it was to be RVD. I thought that'd be kind of sucky since RVD's kind of the worst heel ever, but I would have rather seen RVD come back than Michael McG get a push of any kind. Why him? Like, what has he done recently? I don't understand why someone like Cesaro is pushed down despite being over and having a successful mid-card title while this boring sack of nothing is pushed despite having a tag title run nobody remembers (wait, he did, right? See, I don't even remember if he did or not) and.....and....what the fuck else has he done? Why him? Ah fuck you, Vince.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TLK STRIKES AGAIN

edit agreed w/Yeah


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Titus O'Neil vs. Sheamus from tonight's Raw - *****

Best 1 on 1 TITUS match of his young career thus far. Sheamus made him look good and JBL put him over like a champ on commentary.

DAT TITUS


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> She's moving to California?
> 
> THE LADY KILLER.


Yer buddy and going to Summerslam as well. 

No one will go near her or ill get my shovel :buried

I'll hopefully be moving over there soon as well :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fandango said:


> Titus O'Neil vs. Sheamus from tonight's Raw - *****
> 
> Best 1 on 1 TITUS match of his young career thus far. Sheamus made him look good and JBL put him over like a champ on commentary.
> 
> DAT TITUS


I actually enjoyed that match too. I'd love it if PTP got back to being regulars.

Titus swearing though. :argh:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^haha this is making my day, off to brock/angle ss 03 than KO


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fandango said:


> Titus O'Neil vs. Sheamus from tonight's Raw - *****
> 
> Best 1 on 1 TITUS match of his young career thus far. Sheamus made him look good and JBL put him over like a champ on commentary.
> 
> DAT TITUS


I fucking love Titus. I must watch this. He should have bee the 3rd Paul Heyman guy. 

Then again I guess I'd be deprived of the eventual promo where Hennig says 'as of now, this moment, starting here, right now, as of now, right here, at this very time I am......a Paul Heyman guy.' Got something to look forward to out of this, I s'pose.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It could have been worse; Wade Barrett or Cody Rhodes could have been the third guy.

Actually come to think of it, Brock's best friend in the wrestling business was Curt Hennig (Brock even goes as far as dedicating his book in memory of Curt and mentions several times how much he thinks of him), anybody else here besides me think that could have something to do with this supposed superpush? I kind of enjoy the dynamic of having Punk/Brock/Curt all as Paul Heyman guys due to all three being so different; Punk being 'the best', the guy who tries to validate his existence by being the best in the world, Brock being 'the beast' who shows up/fucks shit up/collects a paycheck/leaves again, & Curt being the young upstart who NEEDS Heyman's expertise to succeed, as evidenced by the sheer amount of times Curt looked to Heyman for guidance during the match tonight.

Loved how Heyman & Curt looked in their separate roles tonight, and I can't speak any higher of Triple H's selling by the time the show was over. While it may have its critics, I felt the ending to tonight's RAW was wonderful storytelling & feud advancing.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Brye said:


> I actually enjoyed that match too. I'd love it if PTP got back to being regulars.
> 
> Titus swearing though. :argh:


That was quite minor I'd say. I'm pretty sure he just said "freaking".


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*






*Rhyno and Edge & Christian vs The Dudley Boyz (Bubba Ray, D-Von, and Spike)- Smackdown 3/20/01*

This right here is Rhyno's debut match in the WWF. This is also Spike Dudley's WWF debut match as well. He also debuted on RAW when he gave Jeff Hardy a gore, costing the Hardy Boyz the match against Edge & Christian. His debut on RAW wasn't anything special but I did mark out a bit. Anyways, Edge and D-Von Dudley start this match off. They go back and forth a little bit with D-Von hitting Edge with a flying clothesline as he tags in Bubba Ray Dudley. Bubba Ray gives Edge a combination of punches to take him down. Bubba Ray Irish whips Edge with Edge reversing it and hitting him with a spinning heel kick. Edge then goes to tag in Christian. Christian gets in control for a bit but Bubba Ray hits Christian with a back body drop which gains him the upperhand. Bubba Ray goes to tag in the debuting Spike Dudley. Spike Dudley works on the arm but Christian punches him off. Christian gives Spike Dudley an Irish whip to the ropes with Spike Dudley giving him a roll-up. Christian kicks out at 2. Spike Dudley gives Christian a school-boy but Christian kicks out at 2 again. Spike Dudley goes for yet another pin but Christian kicks out. Christian gets in control of Spike and in goes Rhyno who finally gets tagged in by Christian. Rhyno begs for Spike Dudley to get up, hitting him with a hard-hitting clothesline. Rhyno Irish whips Spike Dudley towards the corner turnbuckle and hits him with a shoulder thrust (or a running gore, however you prefer it). Rhyno then gives Spike Dudley a hard-hitting kick to the face and tags in Edge. Spike Dudley tries to fight back at Edge but Edge keeps taking him down. Edge gives Spike Dudley a scoop slam and tries to hit Spike Dudley with a high flying move but Spike moves out of the way with Edge landing on the canvas. Both Edge and Spike crawl to their respective corners for a tag. Edge tags in Christian with Spike tagging in D-Von for a hot tag and it's D-Von getting the upperhand. D-Von is clearing house left and right, taking out Christian, Edge, and knocking Rhyno off the apron. Rhyno gets inside the ring and hits D-Von with a clothesline but Bubba Ray gets inside the ring, grabbing Rhyno's hair and throwing his head down onto the canvas. Bubba Ray and D-Von Dudley both hit Rhyno with a Double Flapjack onto the ropes in a cool looking spot. The Dudleyz hit Rhyno with a 'WAASSUUUUP!!!' Headbutt. D-Von does that weird ass taunt which only means one thing; GET THE TABLES! The Dudleyz set the table up and gives Edge a Double Flapjack but Christian moves the table out of the way with Edge landing on the canvas instead. The Dudleyz try to give Christian a Dudley Death Drop but Christian escapes through the ropes. Edge brings a chair inside the ring and strikes Bubba Ray with it. A DQ ends the match.

This is your average 6 man tag team match here. A pretty fun match I'll say. The WWE in-ring debuts from Rhyno and Spike Dudley were pretty cool to see as well. Fun match, nothing more. *Rating:* ★★1/4


*Rhyno vs Matt Hardy- Smackdown 3/27/01*

This is Rhyno's first singles debut since debuting on RAW Is War. It's against Matt Hardy which should be a swell match. The set up to this match is due to Rhyno giving Lita a gore on RAW Is War. As Rhyno enter the ring, Matt Hardy goes on the attack. Matt Hardy runs the ropes to take down Rhyno but ends up eating a clothesline like it was grapes. Rhyno ends up giving Matt Hardy a running kick to the face. Rhyno goes for a cover but Matt Hardy kicks out at 1. Rhyno continues to work on Matt, giving him punches to the abdomen. Rhyno Irish whips Matt to the corner ropes and runs toward him but gets kicked in the face my Matt. Matt Hardy goes on the top turnbuckle but Rhyno tries to take him down off the turnbuckle with a superplex. That doesn't work and Matt Hardy ends up giving him a flying clothesline off the top turnbuckle. Matt Hardy hits Rhyno with a Twist of Fate while Edge tries to interfere in the match who gets taken down by Jeff Hardy. While the referee is distracted by the Edge/Jeff chaos, Christian hits Matt Hardy with a Killswitch. Rhyno crawls and goes to pin Matt Hardy and is able to get the win.

It was an okay match but nothing notewrothy here. Edge & Christian costing Matt Hardy was needed here since it added much more to the Triple Threat TLC match at WrestleMania X-Seven. Rhyno also scored a win in his debut singles match on Smackdown so I can't complain about that. *Rating:* ★★1/2


*Rhyno vs Crash Holly- RAW Is War 4/2/01*

Both Rhyno and Crash Holly hammer away at each other with punches to kick off the match. Rhyno gets in control for a bit but Crash Holly fights back at Rhyno with some more punches and also hitting Rhyno with a Headscissors Hurricanrana. Crash Holly throws Rhyno into the corner and gives him some kicks to the admomen. Crash Holly tries to Irish whip Rhyno into a corner turnbuckle but gets Irish whipped instead. Rhyno goes for a running shoulder thrust on Crash Holly but hits the second bottom turnbuckle. Crash Holly goes onto the top turnbuckle and hits Rhyno with a missle dropkick. Rhyno no-sells the missle dropkick and hits Crash Holly with a gore. Rhyno goes for a cover and successfully gets the 123.

This match was too short to rate. Moving along. Nothing to see here.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Titus O'Neil :mark: :mark: :mark:

The more I see of this guy, the more I like him.

#millionsofdollars


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watching WWF Rhyno is a cool and unusual idea. There's probably a million star match with him and Tajiri. 

TAJIRI.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> It could have been worse; Wade Barrett or Cody Rhodes could have been the third guy.
> 
> Actually come to think of it, Brock's best friend in the wrestling business was Curt Hennig


Wade probably would have been worse. I think I'd prefer Cody to Hennig.

Didn't Curt Hennig and Brock get into a giant argument on a plane?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I forgot to mention that while watching Kurt Vs Brock II earlier today, I made an astute observation that very may well be the most inadvertently hilarious thing I've ever seen in a match; During the climax of the match Kurt nails an Angle slam, then looks to pull his straps down before locking on the Angle lock for the finish, however there is quite a problem with this.... Kurt's straps are already down. Kurt could have just did a pose or some shit before locking it in but of course WHAT does Angle proceed to do?

Put his straps BACK ON before pulling them down literally TWO SECONDS LATER before finally putting on the Angle lock :lol. He looked so fucking perplexed as to how his straps got pulled down in the first place, it was hilarious.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I forgot to mention that while watching Kurt Vs Brock II earlier today, I made an astute observation that very may well be the most inadvertently hilarious thing I've ever seen in a match; During the climax of the match Kurt nails an Angle slam, then looks to pull his straps down before locking on the Angle lock for the finish, however there is quite a problem with this.... Kurt's straps are already down. Kurt could have just did a pose or some shit before locking it in but of course WHAT does Angle proceed to do?
> 
> Put his straps BACK ON before pulling them down literally TWO SECONDS LATER before finally putting on the Angle lock :lol. He looked so fucking perplexed as to how his straps got pulled down in the first place, it was hilarious.


I remember this!!!!!!

It had me marking out like a bitch :mark: :mark: :mark:

DAT KURT


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:mark:

& yeah, Curt kept challenging Brock to take him down which nearly resulted in both of them blowing a door open and plummeting to their untimely demise.

Brock still can't speak higher of Curt though.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Evan, I feel like doing some sort of project, like another countdown while I have the motivation and time to do one 

Any recommendations, I was think like a Punk/Bryan or maybe an in your house project :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Tell me as of RIGHT NOW; who are you in the mood to watch the most, and I'll give you a little project.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Tell me as of RIGHT NOW; who are you in the mood to watch the most, and I'll give you a little project.


I miss Punk  so probably him or maybe the Hitman.

EDIT: However I have wanted to do an In your House project for awhile now


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CM Punk World Title (WWE Championship or WHC) Matches in the WWE.

There's 47 of them with a ton of them likely to be short, so depending on how much you watch every day, you could finish it and rank the shit out of them ASAP and I'd ADORE IT.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> CM Punk World Title (WWE Championship or WHC) Matches in the WWE.
> 
> There's 47 of them with a ton of them likely to be short, so depending on how much you watch every day, you could finish it and rank the shit out of them ASAP and I'd ADORE IT.


Sounds good then mate  ill get onto it.

Should be able to knock this down quite quickly, and might just do reviews for the top 10.

unk2

GOD.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Struggling through Extreme Rules. Wouldn't say anything has been bad so far but nothing very good either.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock/angle summerslam 03
Ok so idk if its because I'm alittle tired but I LOVED This match . I have just seen ppv that only had one good match so I need to see something good. This is pre annoying angle and when Brock was on top of his game. It's something about this match that just kept my eyes glued and that rarely happens.
***** yea full five for this one


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

On my phone so delete the double post plz


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I forgot to mention that while watching Kurt Vs Brock II earlier today, I made an astute observation that very may well be the most inadvertently hilarious thing I've ever seen in a match; During the climax of the match Kurt nails an Angle slam, then looks to pull his straps down before locking on the Angle lock for the finish, however there is quite a problem with this.... Kurt's straps are already down. Kurt could have just did a pose or some shit before locking it in but of course WHAT does Angle proceed to do?
> 
> Put his straps BACK ON before pulling them down literally TWO SECONDS LATER before finally putting on the Angle lock :lol. He looked so fucking perplexed as to how his straps got pulled down in the first place, it was hilarious.


I recall this happening in a couple of other matches too. Kurt being Kurt. :kurt


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

KURT BEING KURT.

I'll give Kurt this much though; besides the likes of Lesnar & Eddie, I thought that Kurt OWNED 2003.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah Kurt was a BEAST in 02-03. His peak years in terms of ring work and probably as a character too. 

2004 was a pretty meh year for him. Started off well and it was all downhill after that. He recovered well with the HBK series and had a few solid matches with Cena. He then had the NWO classic with Taker in 06 and he was gone by the end of the summer after his forgettable ECW run.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow wow wow @ the obvious match I'm gushing about. Talk about working a match to near perfection. The time to develop matches for Shield & Hell No is just tremendous. The consistency of The Shield is absurd. Like really. Who else has been pumping out quality like this as a team in the last decade or two? In North America at that. Specifically WWE. It's mindblowing and I'll put this over in huge fashion proudly. I mean it. It's tremendous.

This RAW was good. Only drawback was the lol booking of Langston owning the #1 contender to the World Championship. How does that help Del Rio heading into his upcoming championship match? C'mon WWE, think about that.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Lesnar cage match ruled the world. I'll write about it more when I review the full show.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Flair vs. Anderson (WCW Fall Brawl 9/17/95) ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed with Saint Dick. I have to watch Trips vs Brock from WM tonight. See if it can top the cage for me. Part of me is thinking it won't. I think the storytelling at Extreme Rules can overrule the awesome brutal nature shown in New York.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

So some of the reviews in the MOTY thread swayed my opinion and I ended up watching Extreme Rules

Chris Jericho vs. Fandango: ****
Kofi Kingston vs. Dean Ambrose: ****
Sheamus vs. Mark Henry: **3/4*
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger: *DUD*
Hell No vs. SHIELD: ***1/4*
Big Show vs. Randy Orton: *1/2**
John Cena vs. Ryback: ****
Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H: ****1/2*

Jericho/Fandango was what I expected it to be. It was just so slightly better than their WrestleMania match and the botches were both pretty insignificant. The selling of the finish was great.

Enjoyed the US title bout. Kofi had the proud champion thing going pretty well and Ambrose's madness was in full display. Didn't get any story but didn't need it b/c the characters' clash was enough for a good showing.

Sheamus/Henry was just sort of there. They had some good ideas doing but Henry just couldn't give a fuck. I liked many things here with Sheamus whipping the strap early on, to the running around on the outside, to the double tagging the lights spots etc. but the match didn't have a core connecting these spots together. Went through the motions and Sheamus got the win. Great pop for the final tag though. Crowd was into it.

I Quit was SO FUCKING BAD. Yeah, they had a decent wrestling match but Chioda fucked us all. If the match had ended with the towel being thrown in, I would've given this a decent enough mark, but the complete neglect of Suspension of Disbelief here was among the worst I've ever seen. Angle/Hardy No Surrender level match. (Y)

Hell No/SHIELD was very enjoyable. They didn't got for that long chaotic match, but it was fun for what it was. I do regret we didn't get a full show b/c these four guys are capable of delivering a top notch tag match.

Show/Orton was just there for Orton to get his star back. I liked the premise of Show needing no weapons against everything Orton was throwing at him, but yeah that didn't last long. Not good at all.

Cena/Ryback went from a good Ryback performance to retarded pretty fast. I have to say that Cena was FUCKING HORRIBLE here. Ryback sold the ten counts much better than Cena at every turn and he even outperformed Cena here (although neither man was all that great tbf). Please stop attempting the Hurricanrana. It led to perhaps the worst submission I've ever seen and Ryback, the referee and the crowd all looked completely flabbergasted as to what Cena was doing. :lmao I've no qualms with the finish or the way they sold it b/c let's face it, it's a story and I can totally buy that. The way they ended the match was fine too, but I just couldn't get over the immense amount of No Selling in the match and Cena's terrible performance against yet another up-and-coming wrestler. Seriously, Cena just suck it up and do what you'd normally do if you were up against a top guy. Having said all this, there were still parts of the match I really enjoyed, like Ryback's early performance and his primary selling of the 10 counts where he could make it just up to his feet and then collapse immediately. You know something, this guy seriously gets it. You don't need to sell every 10 count till 9. You can get up at 8 or 5 or even 2 as Ryback did at certain points. It definitely brought more urgency to the cause rather than Cena lying down motionlessly for 8 counts a jumping up at 9 and immediately going on the offensive.

Lesnar/Triple H was phenomenal and definitely the best of their series. I'll just quote Cody's review here b/c I have nothing more to say on the matter: 



> This match was WONDERFUL. Storytelling at its finest. On some much of this match. It's brilliant. From Brock's stellar selling of the knee, to Trips return to the Cerebral Assassin; all of it was on point. Best part about it was the total change in characters from both men. Past matches saw Trips the vulnerable man & Brock as the beast at SummerSlam. WrestleMania saw it be a dead heap - both were unleashed that night. Here at Extreme Rules the opposite happened. Brock suffered the knee injury thus making him the vulnerable man in the situation & Trips smelled the blood in the water and morphed into the beast. That's just absolutely fantastic work. Certainly this match was all lead along by Brock. No doubt about it. The character shift did show signs of giving Trips something fresher to do while against Brock. Can't forget about the awesome camouflage sledgehammer too. It's like Silver Surfer's weapon to bludgeon anyone he finds out in space. I adored Heyman's work in this too. From all aspects. As the concerned manager on the outside - to all the times he got in the mix to aid his client. He was fiesty, taking out officials and even suffering a pedigree for Brock. Little did Triple H know that Paul would have the last laugh. I have ZERO problems with Heyman hitting the low blow on Triple H before Brock got the advantage. Brock was wounded. There is no shame in this. It wasn't to "feed the ego" of Triple H. It was to not only have Brock Lesnar win this feud, but Paul Heyman too. Heyman gave Trips the biggest fuck you moment possible and that was by taking his arm and jamming it right into the groin of the COO. The dichotomy between Brock & Heyman has almost never reach a more pinnacle moment than this. It was defined here. Proof positive that they're both in it together. Brock is down; nearly out. Showing signs that he is mortal. Triple H about to finish off Lesnar like a lamb to the slaughter, only for his (Brock's) shining light in the form of his agent being the last push he needed in the right direction. Couple that with the original smoking gun - Triple H's own beloved sledgehammer - & Brock would end this once and for all. Proving he is truly the dominate force in WWE. Triple H tried. He fought well. Only his aid at WrestleMania to get one victory ended up being his ultimate downfall once he went to that well yet again. This was fabulous. Damn near saved the show.


(Y), great write-up and agreed completely.

Show was overall enjoyable bar the I QUIT FUCKERY and the LMS disappointment. Orton/Show could've been shorter and better and it would've made for a far better event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Biggest drag of the event for me was the potential it had only to fall flat on most of it. Up until the main event it was all just there & happened without one to care much. Again I think the _"definition of underwhelming/mediocre"_ was the best final assessment given. Despite it having the phenomenal Steel Cage match end the night.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

The latest shield match was really helped by having the bryan story dominate the match of him being the weak link of the team. Bryan's such a fantastic face in peril and him showing a different level of intensity in the match that we haven't seen in a while really adds to the match. 

But as usual the shield, how fucking consistent can these guys be. Another ****/****1/4 match from these guys. Reigns gradual improvement in the ring has been extraordinary. Reigns has gone from just the powerhouse and seemingly limited into a much more complete performer, that final sequence with kane was wonderful. Kane coming in off the hot tag and how fluid it was.

Can't say enough about rollins and ambrose in that match. Rollins was extraordinary and dean was always good. What makes the shield so fantastic is that they have the perfect mix of performers. The speed and highflying of rollins, the power and physicality of reigns, and the brawling style of ambrose. The perfect mix, plus they have this incredible chemistry as a team. Everybody on the ropes works when they aren't in the ring, for example rollins taunting bryan during the final heel control segment when dean was in the ring. 

The pace of the match was incredible, the match seemed to fly by, that was one of those matches while it was probably over 20 minutes on TV could have gone on even longer it was so fantastic. It was built so well

Another fantastic match, what else to expect from shield, and hell no as well


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

VERY pleased Brock won, havnt watched the match yet, hoping to later this week. Read different types of reviews on the match itself, but i just pray to God the series is at an end FFS, roll on Brock's next feud.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I rewatched Hunter/Brock Mania and it's about as good as the Cage for me. My major gripe was Brock continuing to get stuck in the Kimura, but Brock barely moved his arm other than instinctively after the first chair shot that I can buy that his nervous system didn't know too much about it. It's a slow build and Triple H's face performance wasn't really all that great, but ****1/2*, same as the cage for me.

So SummerSlam is the only match of their I don't particularly enjoy.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Brock wrestling as the underdog just completely took me out of the match. For me that just felt wrong. They've ruined what Brock coming back was to me, what happened to Brock Lesnar MMA machine? Yeah we've got Brock Lesnar pro wrestler now which is great, but don't build him up to be something and then destroy it. This guy shouldn't be wrestling vulnerably at all imo. Taken on it's own merits as a pro wrestling match this was probably great and Brocks sell job was out of this world good, but it isn't what we should be getting from Brock imo and that totally took me out of it, if that makes sense. If this had happened pre UFC Lesnar with Brock as a baby face I probably would have loved it, so maybe I'm being jaded here idk.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/HN & Kofi - ****1/4. DAT PERFECT PACE, DAT STORYTELLING FROM BRYAN, DAT SELLING FROM ROLLINS. DAT SHIELD.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Kofi once again showing that he belongs with the big boys


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bubz said:


> Brock wrestling as the underdog


What a statement lol Shows how stupid WWE REALLY fucking is :no: Why couldnt they just let him totally destroy Trips, although the sledgehammer finish from what i have read was a decent touch at least, fuck off HHH (sorry marks, he is actually one of my faves, but like this he has no purpose being in there IMHO)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There was a progression to the story of their matches. While Brock was on the ropes for a bulk of the cage match, at the end Brock did destroy Trips with the sledgehammer. It wasn't like Brock's win was a fluke or flash pin on Sunday. It was definitive.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> What a statement lol Shows how stupid WWE REALLY fucking is :no: Why couldnt they just let him totally destroy Trips, although the sledgehammer finish from what i have read was a decent touch at least, fuck off HHH (sorry marks, he is actually one of my faves, but like this he has no purpose being in there IMHO)


Yeah it’s getting harder to defend HHH. I’ve always kind of liked him and I don’t consider him the sewer scum a lot of people do, but it’s really impossible at this point to think he’s not doing things to get himself over. CM Punk was hot in 2011, and he inserts himself into it, and CM Punk isn’t as hot in 2011 anymore. Brock Lesnar is hot in 2012, and he inserts himself into it, and Brock Lesnar isn’t as hot anymore. Come on, let there be something at the top of the company without HHH. Dude, you don’t need to main event anymore PPVs.

-----
Speaking of HHH, lets talk about a wrestler who was better in HHH’s best year than HHH by a mile~~!

Yoshihiro Tajiri v. Psicosis (A New Era Begins 8/19/00)
I was positive this would hold up and it totally does. In fact I think it’s even better this time, and is a good contender for best ECW match of all time. No matter what people might yammer on about ECW having no good matches and all of that bullshit- ECW have some REALLY good shit, and this proves it. I think this is better than every WWE ECW match, too. They start with a ton great looking mat-shit. Tajiri is Japanese, but this looks right out of Mexico, with awesome everything-into-armdrags, and Tajiri busting out stuff you won’t se in very many other places. Tajiri had a shit-ton of really, really impressive counters for stuff, and he’d turn neat Psicosis shit into even neater shit. In the middle of that he’ll throw a headbutt to the groin, too. There are ‘stand-off’ spots in this, yes. But I’ll echo what others have said – they’re fine and nowhere near the suckiness of the usual stand-off spot. A stand-off is what? Two people putting their arms up to make sure the opponent doesn’t catch them off guard. But it NEVER looks like that. It always looks like the two guys are posing. A wrestler would be my hero if he delivered a kick during a stand-off, thus proving that a stand-off spot is useless and lame. But yeah, these actually came off like Tajiri was ready for Psicosis’ next move. Tajiri had Psic beaten on every attempt, so once they got off of the mat Tajiri would be cautious that Psic would attack him blind. Really, the mat shit in this was the best possible Eddie Guerrero v. Dean Malenko ‘mat classic’ match. Once the mat part is over you get Psicosis being Psicosis, which means nutty bumps and dives. He takes a ‘fly through the ropes after steel-post shot’ bump to the concrete (where he nearly took out a camerawoman) and I thought we were going to get a Santo mid-rope dive from Tajiri, but instead he goes over the top. Oh Yoshi how you exceed expectations. Psicosis’ crowd dive was a Psicosis crowd dive. Finish run was really great. Sweet pin attempts, Psicosis selling his frustration like a pro, and Tajiri exercising the no-DQ rule of ECW by going low a few times. And he finds some interesting ways to go low. Stomping repeatedly on Psic’s nuts during the tree-of-woe was one thing, but countering a flying body-scissors by driving a knee into Psicosis’ nuts is another thing. Amazing spot. Tajiri pinning Psic with three kicks to the face was fitting. Great, great match and something that will wind up on the list. Tajiri. Tajiri. Tajiri.

Watched the 8/25/00 and 8/26/00 Tajiri/Whipwreck v. FBI Hammerstein Ballroom fancams. 8/25 I’d never actually seen before because I thought I had the same match twice. There were some lesser stand-off spots, but it had some nice stuff and was a good 6-8 minutes. 8/26 I’d seen before; it’s really good, there’s super stuff in there, some of the double team moves were oddly unique, and I can see why someone would list it, but I stopped being in the mood for wrestling midway and turned it off. Really good, yeah, but I’ve seen it in full before and have tons of shit I want to watch. I was more than halfway through it, and was convinced it wasn’t making the list. 

So when did Mikey go from ‘underdog champion’ to ‘red hair cackling loony bin’?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do believe the Mikey personality change came when he departed from the company and returned in 1999. He came back and basically said "fuck you" to the whole underdog aspect & the fans who began to boo him for it. He went insane, hooked up with Yoshihiro Tajiri & never looked back.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Aw yeah he was WCW, huh. I should watch a bunch of Mikey in WCW since I don't think I ever have and Mikey is awesome. I WONDER IF HE BATTLED WITH MIKE ENOS :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have a Nitro where he worked vs REGAL. 

Enos? I need to look it up if it happened. btw his match against Kidman in his debut is rad. Uncensored '99. Yep, the first blood steel cage event.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tried youtube/video searching Mikey in WCW and not a lot turns up.  I DID find Mikey & Spike Dudley v. PG-13 from ECW in 97. That HAS to be good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PG-13 already booted from Nation by the sounds of it. Never had a chance.

k, going to look for Mikey matches now. I'll post some and maybe you'll luck out on links eventually. You're the master of finding those hidden ones.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Missed Raw last night but see there was another Shield 6-man tag. ATF seems high on it so I assume it's worth checking out? Anything else too? Pretty psyched to see that HHH had a match on Raw, not sure how long it got though.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ratings for all the Rey/Eddie matches?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Brock wrestling as the underdog just completely took me out of the match. For me that just felt wrong. They've ruined what Brock coming back was to me, what happened to Brock Lesnar MMA machine? Yeah we've got Brock Lesnar pro wrestler now which is great, but don't build him up to be something and then destroy it. This guy shouldn't be wrestling vulnerably at all imo. Taken on it's own merits as a pro wrestling match this was probably great and Brocks sell job was out of this world good, but it isn't what we should be getting from Brock imo and that totally took me out of it, if that makes sense. If this had happened pre UFC Lesnar with Brock as a baby face I probably would have loved it, so maybe I'm being jaded here idk.


This is almost exactly what I've been trying to describe and why the match just wasn't for me. (Y)



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Ratings for all the Rey/Eddie matches?


Truthfully I haven't seen as many as I'd like, but:

Halloween Havoc '97 - **** 1/2
Wrestlemania 21 - *** - *** 1/4 (people are WAY too hard on this)
Judgment Day '05 - ****
Summerslam '05 - *** 1/2
Smackdown Steel Cage - *** 1/4

Haven't seen their gushed over SD matches (3/18/04 & 6/23/05?) & I don't remember enough of any other WCW matches to rate them.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

What's new pussycat, WA WOAH, WA WOAH, WA WHOA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Missed Raw last night but see there was another Shield 6-man tag. ATF seems high on it so I assume it's worth checking out? Anything else too? Pretty psyched to see that HHH had a match on Raw, not sure how long it got though.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18614594-post1182.html

my thoughts on the match.

Triple H match goes 8 minutes.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Ratings for all the Rey/Eddie matches?


I'll try and name off all the ones I have:

Halloween Havoc '97 - *****3/4*
World War 3 '97 - *****1/4*
WCW Saturday Night December '97 - ****3/4*
WrestleMania 21 - *****
Judgment Day '05 - ******
Smackdown 6/23/05 - *****3/4*
Great American Bash '05 - ****3/4*
SummerSlam '05 - ****1/4*

Four WWE matches missing from this list - All from Smackdown.
Nine from WCW that didn't make the list. 

If I luck out on my search today, all of those will be viewed. This has inspired me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Considering those two's matches will be on my Smackdown Six project, I'm quite pumped up :mark:

I'd say ANY non-Chavo combo from the Smackdown Six is miles better than Angle/Benoit, even though their WM 17 match I have at ***1/2. That one deserves a little better than the hard shit it gets.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll probably run through every Eddie vs Mysterio match today except for Havoc & WW3 considering I watched those only a few days ago. All the WWE matches are nearly set in stone. Only one I could possibly go up on is GAB. Been a bit since I last saw it. I remember thinking the cage match was good. Nothing great, only good. If I can find that I'll love to refresh myself on it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18614594-post1182.html
> 
> my thoughts on the match.
> 
> Triple H match goes 8 minutes.


Wow, *****1/2*? Will definitely check that out later then. Will read your write up after as I don't even know who wins and whatnot.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, and because we're onto the Eddie Guerrero topic, y'all should watch Eddie & Chyna vs Benoit from 2000. That right there is a legit hidden masterpiece, storytelling is ALMOST Eddie/Rey good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jesus CHRIST Cody.

Now I HAVE to watch that match again.

After I watch some morning BROCK first .


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Bryan's performance last night was exceptional. I've enjoyed his comedic work a lot but few things are better than a motivated and serious Dragon. The possibility of him rising up the card again is the most intriguing and exciting prospect the WWE have going for them. The whole 'weak link' angle coupled with the attitude shift had me on the edge of my seat the entire match. I don't think there's any babyface more captivating than _that_ Daniel Bryan.

The entire match was a thing of beauty. Throughout the match, I couldn't help but thinking, this is what Raw should be like every week. Why isn't Raw like this more often? A group of talent being given time to structure an engaging match. Such a simple concept. Although to be fair this year has been fairly strong for TV matches. In fact, I think most of the great matches this year have been on TV.

DAH SHIELD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hit a bit of a snag upon finding all the Eddie/Mysterio matches from '98. Only seems like two are available - 11/16 & 12/21. Missing three. I hate that.

--------

Shield match on RAW was the tops. I may have to watch it again. WWE used their brains so well last night having the final hour of their show be nothing but straight up wrestling. What a refreshing change. 

And yep: Bryan Danielson is the best babyface in WWE today. Bar none.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Watching Survivor Series from 1992, I noticed Shawn & Bret were only in development mode, judging by the chemistry they displayed. It definitely wasn't bad, just not up to par with the in-ring connection they presented 5 or so years later. ***1/4

It's actually quite amazing to see the art of evolving as far as connection and chemistry between two athletes is concerned. Forget to mention, Awesome thread here, top notch info.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed he is.

I was actually thinking about this last night; in the WWE this year, the elite workers have been CM Punk, BROCK LESNAR, & The Shield..... They REALLY don't have as much babyface talent as they do heel talent like, at all. Danielson is fucking awesome but stuck in a tag role for what's seemingly not going to last that much longer, Cena has been the shits this year bar two classic matches, Sheamus hasn't really done anything....

Anyways, time for some more Brock in Japan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed so much on the SSeries '92 match. In fact I think it is only ok at best as Bret was in the zone, only Shawn was trying to find his way in a singles career and wasn't quite there yet. 

Only like about three matches between those two in the singles capacity. It wasn't for me any of those three times.

EDIT ~ Danielson is cream of the crop in so many performances. Jericho has had a solid return this year. Adrian Neville has a stand out year on NXT. Sheamus hasn't gotten the chance to have the matches he was having weekly like last year, but he's been fine & good in his matches too. Cena is ehhhhhh. Which is a sad sight. Hope he can tune things up; look at his match vs Punk. He's STILL got the talent to do so.

Brock in Japan was ok. I thought it could have been a lot stronger of a run. I think I actually liked a few more Angle matches while he was over there. Shocking.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Vs Nakanishi is SO BEAST for a four and a half minute match, holy shit. Brck hits him hard, Nakanishi hits him harder and gets him up in a torture rack, Brock escapes the torture rack and MURDERS Nakanishi with a powerbomb and THE VERDICT.

The match fucking RULED.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Agreed so much on the SSeries '92 match. In fact I think it is only ok at best as Bret was in the zone, only Shawn was trying to find his way in a singles career and wasn't quite there yet.
> 
> Only like about three matches between those two in the singles capacity. It wasn't for me any of those three times.


I prefer Shawn's in-ring style as a heel rather than a face. That tricky, smirky SOB. On the Bret-Shawn topic, I liked the iron-man, even though WWE gives it lots of undeserved credit. I wasn't feeling the Survivor Series 1997 encounter at all, felt too slow and plodding at times. However, If my memory is correct, They did have a really good TV match in 1990. Will need to reverse in mindset to uncover the exact date though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Brock Vs Nakanishi is SO BEAST for a four and a half minute match, holy shit. Brck hits him hard, Nakanishi hits him harder and gets him up in a torture rack, Brock escapes the torture rack and MURDERS Nakanishi with a powerbomb and THE VERDICT.
> 
> The match fucking RULED.


Never seen it. Feel like I should. Nakanishi actually can still clobber around in awesome fashion these days despite being utterly slow via the back surgery. Colliding with Brock should be a sight.

Uh-oh. Is a Brock Japan tour viewing up next for me? Could be.



Fluze said:


> I prefer Shawn's in-ring style as a heel rather than a face. That tricky, smirky SOB. On the Bret-Shawn topic, I liked the iron-man, even though WWE gives it lots of undeserved credit. I wasn't feeling the Survivor Series 1997 encounter at all, felt too slow and plodding at times. However, If my memory is correct, They did have a really good TV match in 1990. Will need to reverse in mindset to uncover the exact date though.


For me it's always been about Shawn during his days with Marty in The Rockers. He was brilliant in the tag ranks.

Forgot Bret vs Shawn had a ladder match too. I'm sure they've had some hidden matches scattered all throughout the 90's. My nativity blanked on that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DO IT.

There's only 8 matches & I'm on number 3 now. One decent match and one really good match, things are FINE so far.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I agree with some people on here that the Sheild's matches can get overrated around these parts. But the match they had last night was a fantastic tv match, maybe the best tv match next to Cena V Punk. 

Daniel Bryan is superb. His offensive furies are amazing to watch and the crowd gets into them more then any other baby face in the company


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Today's Tuesday. Yep. I can cram so much wrestling today its going to be absurd. Eddie/Mysterio WCW series is nearly complete. Brock in Japan can be done if I find the matches, & then I can move onto something new. Possibly Eddie & Mysterio as a tag team. Those MNM matches are screaming to be viewed. Def got to watch Christian vs Del Rio ladder match too.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't get people sometimes. Brock gives us the best selling of an injury we've seen since Christian's performance against Swagger on ECW and they complain that he shouldn't be working vulnerably. The guy got hurt. He's a beast but he can still get hurt and the injury was as a result of his insane recklessness, it's not like HHH fucked him up or something.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Never seen it. Feel like I should. Nakanishi actually can still clobber around in awesome fashion these days despite being utterly slow via the back surgery. Colliding with Brock should be a sight.
> 
> Uh-oh. Is a Brock Japan tour viewing up next for me? Could be.
> 
> ...


The Rockers are one of my favorite tag teams, love 'em, need more love IMO. 

As a singles wrestler, HBK was IMO gold in 1996.

Last time i watched that Bret/HBK ladder match, couldn't stand it, IMO not a lot seem to actually happen in it, just seemed all random, even the storytelling, which in a Bret match is usually of the highest standard.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah Shawn had a very quality '96. Certainly true. Mind Games, SummerSlam, Survivor Series. All some great matches. It made up for WM 12 in no time.

Rockers get love from me. Always and forever. Only team to give them competition in my ranks is the Midnight Express. If only those two could have locked it up. I'm speaking on behalf of any variation of MXP - as long as Eaton was involved.

Ladder match is eh. They tried though so I give them credit there. It was unbelievably fresh for WWF & mainstream fans so it truly was a work in progress. By the time WM X came along, things transitioned nicely. (Y)


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I did watch their (Rockers) bout with Buddy Rose and Doug Sommers, That blood bath towards the end was tense. I will check out more of their stuff, Possibly **** for the one mentioned before.

Watching the Rumble from 2007, JBL's commentary is hilarious and meaningful at the same time, ala when Booker is beating on Kane due to the revenge he's attempting upon due to the elimination by The Big Red Machine. "C'mon Cole, I'm begging you to be UNBIAS!!!" (two seconds later) "He's (Visceria) lost weight". Nice transitioning by JBL in tone. 

The ending to this Rumble is possibly the best, I reckon Undie was the better performer than Shawn in that specific period of fight. I was fond of Undie's wobbly selling and apron spots. Both had great showings though and an awesome rumble overall.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

a shawn convo without me is blasphemy :lol, yea don't bother watching the ladder match its not that good, as you alluded to earlier Cody, Shawn was still seeking his singles niche at the point although I don't remember ss92 being that bad; had it around ***1/2. His 96 run was good but his 97s was cream of the crop. I look at his career and break it down to 3 sections ;rocker-90s-00s. Rockers was when he was just a Superb wrasstler, 90s he added the flash.

Just watched the shield match from last nite high ****. Probably their second best behind TLC. It may be an unpopular opinion here but outside of their tlc match, this ,and ec with the superfriends, nothing else has looked ****+to me.

Edit: Ill bump it up to ****1/4 for the shield/hellno kofi


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Thanks for the suggests, Red. I will look into them soon.

I for one, want a Roman-Sheamus feud, Both are proven big man workers, Sheamus more so than the latter. However, looking at their confrontational stares at EC of this year, I was pretty sure we would get a one-on-one rivalry between the two before the whole moved on, but sadly no, Time is virtue and Patience is needed though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> I don't get people sometimes. Brock gives us the best selling of an injury we've seen since Christian's performance against Swagger on ECW and they complain that he shouldn't be working vulnerably. The guy got hurt. He's a beast but he can still get hurt and the injury was as a result of his insane recklessness, it's not like HHH fucked him up or something.


Firstly, Taker at WM26 says hello to that second sentence.

Secondly, it's not that Brock didn't do an amazing job with the selling, but because Brock shouldn't be getting hurt like that at all unless after something crazy... and if there was ever a time to do it, it would've been after that sick dive when Lesnar fought Cena a year ago. But Lesnar shouldn't be selling an injury like that, HE should be injuring people. HE should be beating them senseless and toying with them or just absolutely destroying him. He did it to the NUMBER 1 GUY in the company, but he can't do it to a guy who the past few years has only wrestled a handful of times each year. He's always fighting HHH like it's just another back and fourth regular match, and it takes away from his mystique. 

But then the thing that doesn't make sense (and it's not that I dislike it personally, as it makes Lesnar look strong) in the ER match is after he gets hurt, the match is still evenly fought for the most part. Someone mentioned desperation by Lesnar at that point, but I don't buy it. HHH had actually been more in control for the beginning of the match and then ends up somewhat losing that control after Lesnar gets injured (somewhat). At that point by the way they've done their matches, HHH should've absolutely dominated Lesnar until the finish where Lesnar ends up winning due to Heyman. And no, I wouldn't want that to happen, but it would've made some sense. They booked themselves into that lose-lose situation for me by the poor booking of the Brock/HHH matches.

What they did at Summerslam was the best way to go about a Lesnar injury. The match, while still pretty evenly matched, favored Lesnar after he took off the gloves, and then after he was injured, the match started going HHH's way for the most part until the finish. They did it the best they could at Summerslam, but ER made no sense the way they handled and there was no way I could look at it positively. It hurts the match a lot, and while I'm not entirely surprised I see ****+ ratings for the match, can't say I understand the view point, even reading some of the reviews. Then again, that's been the case for all the Lesnar/HHH matches, and it's not just the way they book the guys individually either, but their pacing together and the sequences leave so much to be desired. Occasionally we'll get some cool stuff, like Lesnar taking off the gloves, one of them going through the announce table, and hell, Brock's amazing selling of his injuries (which doesn't excuse the senselessness of the fact he was selling the leg injury at ER, but it's still worth praise to Brock individually), and maybe a couple of other nice things I can't care to remember at this point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Reigns match would be so good. I think Reigns key right now is certainly in tag matches. So with more growth it can build till it could finally happen. A more seasoned Reigns in singles clubberin against Sheamus is near mouth watering.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I just want to see a Reigns singles match, atm


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still can't get over that match from last night. Wow.

How long does everyone think The Shield will remain a team? As in, when will WWE pull the trigger on having them split via inner conflict a la Evolution?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Post Wrestlemania XXX for sure.

Any guesses as to who is the first team to successfully defeat them via pinfall or submission?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

After how intensely they were put over as being THE quintessential unit in WWE I can't see it being over any time soon. "Soon" implying along the lines of 2013. I sense longevity here. Certainly over the year mark.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***3/4 for Shield's match last night.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching some summerslam today

brock/angle ss 03 *****
bret/perfect ****

watching hbk/vader atm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> brock/angle ss 03 *****


Ya seem to love it as much as Cal, havn't watched it in years myself, looking forward to getting to it when i start my Brock project (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ its a MUST zep


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Who beats The Shield? I think we all know the answer to that... 

:HHH2:buried

And just to add insult to injury, he's going to eliminate Rollins similar to how HBK eliminated Mike Knox (or whoever it was) at SVS 06. Then he's gonna double pedigree the other two members and pin them at the same time in less than 10 minutes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

their a guy in the rate your 5 star matches that has Batista/cena from wm 26 as one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Noticed that too. 

Opinions are opinions - I'm vexed nonetheless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ZEP, I'm almost done my BROCK project ...... GET ON MY LEVEL .

& I know you're joking Gamblor, but I'm actually 99.9 percent sure that The Shield ends at the hands of either HHH (most likely) or Cena (least likely) because just think about it; besides a feud with Punk, what does Triple H have left to do at this point? He has done everything that there is to do, & building THE SHIELD as credible opponents in the future makes a TON of sense. I don't know WHO he would be teaming with, but I know that Triple H/???/??? Vs The Shield will probably be the angles blowoff.

If you've read the WON report on where they're going with the HHH storyline, it becomes increasingly obvious who his next opponent will be though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> ZEP, I'm almost done my BROCK project ...... GET ON MY LEVEL .
> 
> & I know you're joking Gamblor, but I'm actually 99.9 percent sure that The Shield ends at the hands of either HHH (most likely) or Cena (least likely) because just think about it; besides a feud with Punk, what does Triple H have left to do at this point? He has done everything that there is to do, & building THE SHIELD as credible opponents in the future makes a TON of sense. I don't know WHO he would be teaming with, but I know that Triple H/???/??? Vs The Shield will probably be the angles blowoff.
> 
> If you've read the WON report on where they're going with the HHH storyline, it becomes increasingly obvious who his next opponent will be though.


Haven't read it, but...

:brock ?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Ratings for all the Rey/Eddie matches?


I know they've got a few sub 10 minute affairs on Nitro that have gotten good reviews. Not sure any are better than Benoit/Eddie 11/16/95 as far as sub 10 minute matches go, but if any two guys had the chemistry to work effortlessly in 10 minutes and produce a watchable and good match its Eddie & Rey. Of their more notable matches:

*Halloween Havoc '97*

Huge fan. Rey is mesmerising in his fluidity and agility even if he's not the complete and well rounded worker he is today. Eddie however compensates for this by being the perfect base and guy to work on top. Conveys the aggression, desperation and overall impeccable talent perfectly and sets up Mysterio's beautiful comebacks in a smart fashion. The one botch is unfortunate though the spot they attempted is mind-boggling in of itself. Blistering pace, perfect Eddie performance on top and the best match Mysterio in that timeframe could have had given he relied more on his graceful agility.

*Smackdown 3/18/04*

Truthfully this went down on the last watch. I was considering it initially for a Top 100 project for '00-09 I'm working on but I felt it was one of their weaker matches. Eddie works brilliantly to essentially work on top without compromising the babyface/babyface dynamic and as far as face/face Eddie/Rey matches go its pretty good. Some nice counters and transitions and they tease the eventual theme of the '05 feud with Eddie scrambling to find ways to control and ground Mysterio to no avail. Its 'good', but not much more imo.

*Wrestlemania 21*

Haven't seen it in a while but it was contending with Summerslam '05 for the weakest of their series that year. Just feels a step or ten beneath their best efforts and the '04 match is far better in terms of a face/face match. Some ok counters but there doesn't really feel much beyond the counters in a way their matches did once Eddie went heel.

*Judgement Day '05*

Terrific match which I need to rewatch soon as part of the Top 100 project. Eddie off memory was vicious, menacing and enthralling in his quest to hurt and beat Mysterio. Mysterio played the heroic yet initially overmatched babyface to a tee and the build into the finish was stellar. Off memory I was a big fan of the finish to advance Eddie's desperation not to lose, as at least here he could claim to have lost without giving Mysterio the satisfaction of truly beating him.

*Smackdown 6/23/05*

Their best encounter by far imo. Eddie's performance is perhaps the finest and magnus opus of his career. Adore the character development with Eddie being sporting initially and trying to beat Mysterio without any snide tactics, to reaffirm his belief that he's talented enough to beat Mysterio without any need for unnecessary violence. Then of course his transformation and descent into a psychotic loon when Mysterio continuously frustrates him at every turn is a work of art. The control segment is honestly one of my personal favourites. Eddie just perfectly tows the line between immensely talented performer in control with that bubbling and wailing psyche of his threatening to boil over at any moment. Finishing stretch and Mysterio comeback is brilliant and one of Rey's finest. The pacing has created a palpatable atmosphere and every counter and nearfall builds and advances the story with Eddie's desperation being particularly engrossing.

*Great American Bash '05*

The most overlooked of their series imo. I'd tentatively have this below the 6/23 encounter when it comes to their '05 series and possibly only Halloween Havoc above it as well when it comes to their entire volume of matches. Eddie is unbelievably cruel, sadistic and sleazy here. Truly his finest hour as a heel and performer. Adore the little touches he adds throughout, such as his reaction to being crotched and asking for a time out to re-adjust his tights. Its a true character study which dominates as opposed to their counter heavy style which is a secondary aspect, but Eddie is so suitably marvellous in his role I find it sneaks past Judgement Day '05. You truly feel this is the lowest he can possibly go in his quest to beat Mysterio and satisfy his rapidly deteriorating ego. When the finish occurs, you truly feel he's a broken man once and for all.

*Summerslam '05*

Pretty peddling and average. The Vickie spot with her horrendous timing is unfortunate again and detracts from the match, but even before that I just don't feel they execute the gimmick to great. There's some admittedly brutal bumps and spots from both men, but it feels like an unnecessary continuation of the feud and truthfully can't create the same toxic atmosphere that drives their Great American Bash encounter.

*Smackdown Steel Cage 9/9/05*

Better than Wrestlemania & Summerslam imo but firmly in the middle of their series and below Judgement Day, Great American Bash & the 6/23 encounters. Eddie's desperation is again evident and whilst it does lack that true definitive drama that you'd want in a feud ender, you feel by now Eddie has almost lost that inner violence and warped pysche and is more saddled with crushing depression. Truly a broken man. A good match which even though is lacking in the hate (GAB feels like the true conclusion to their feud imo) manages to have enough going for it to be above their weakest encounters that year. Satisfactory way to have Eddie move onwards to the Batista program and in the process finally secure a bit of clarity in regards to his seemingingly inabiliy to beat Mysterio.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

So happy to see love for Titus O'Neil  I haven't watched the match yet but I'm sure it will be fun as hell. The amount of talented big men the WWE have at the minute is absurd; O'Neil, Sheamus, Reigns, Henry, Show, Bork, Kane. All heavy hitters that are just amazing. Plus there's Luke Harper in NXT who's legit one of the best in the entire WWE. Plus Big E has potential IMO. Plus Ryback can be decent, despite me hating the ER match.

HEAVY HITTERS


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ titus oneil best match so far and a good showing for Sheamus. I was going to slap some posters in wwe section that said o'neil jobbed and got buried.

hbk/vader ****1/2- im confused on its back story though. Was Shawn upset that Vader roughed him up during the match and that is was they had a one match series ? or he was scared going into the match ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^ titus oneil best match so far and a good showing for Sheamus. I was going to slap some posters in wwe section that said o'neil jobbed and got buried.
> 
> hbk/vader ****1/2- im confused on its back story though. Was Shawn upset that Vader roughed him up during the match and that is was they had a one match series ? or he was scared going into the match ?


Yeah, apparantly HBK thought Vader was too slow in parts and messed up some spots in the match, shame as Vader should have feuded with HBK and won the fucking title IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say Titus O'Neil's best singles match was his match vs Tensai from Main Event this year. Match vs Sheamus was fun.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think since everyone is doing project, Im debating on doing MY ***** project. Which means going back and watch all my fives and seeing if they hold up

cena/brock er 12
savage/steamboat wm 3
angle/brock ss 03
angle/beniot rr 03
taker/hbk wm 25
taker/hbk wm 26
taker/hbk bb 97
taker/hhh hiac
bret/austin wm 13
cena/punk mitb


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, for a little debate here, which is the best pure wrestling match, non-gimmick, of the last 2 years, that does NOT involve either Punk or Bryan?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

pure wresting as in great mat or the best non gimmick wwe match ? hhh/taker wm 27 ? Christan vs orton otl

Edit : hhh/taker w 27 was no holds barred sorry. Thats actually a tough question Orton/christian otl


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

We're talking just singles matches with no gimmicks (as you described), or you mean literally "pure-wrestling" with stuff like punches, kicks, etc. kept to a minimum or nothing at all?

First two that come to mind in the first one's case are Sheamus/Show from HIAC last year, or Cena/Mysterio from 2011. Cena/Mysterio might work for the second one as well. Do need to give it a re-watch.

Edit: OH WAIT! Orton/Christian OTL 2011!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well mostly non-gimmick. It's tough, since most of them do feature Bryan and Punk. Orton/Christian is a pretty good choice.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea Gamblor that what I was confused about, good question and I'm going to go wit Orton/christian from OTL as I previously stated


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Am I the only one that wants this Heyman stuff to turn into a new era Dangerous Alliance? :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

-Mystery- said:


> Am I the only one that wants this Heyman stuff to turn into a new era Dangerous Alliance? :mark:


Me too, i :mark: hard for the DA :clap


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> Am I the only one that wants this Heyman stuff to turn into a new era Dangerous Alliance? :mark:


If this means Bryan plays Sting, Dustin Rhodes or Ricky Steamboat in this scenario and we get the long awaited return of a War Games match during the angle then I would absolutely welcome it.

I do feel its building to something big. The fact they're playing up 'Paul Heyman Guys' just has me wondering. I know some are speculating it might tie into Punk's return and possibly a big Summerslam match, but who knows.

I will say though the abundance of good-great tag matches this Shield run has produced has me thinking back to 1992 WCW and the great tags/6 man tags the Dangerous Alliance vs WCW feud produced.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*The Shield vs Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston (20/05/2013 WWE)*
★★★★ 1/4
_Come on, weak link!

Weirdly, it's the weakest combination of wrestlers that delivers my favourite Shield match so far and the one with the greatest workrate of them all. Why, though? Because this kept every member in check, and ensured the better wrestlers maintained presence for much of the time allotted. That isn't to say Kofi and Kane never had their chance, because they did, but, rather, that they filtered into the match's narrative at exactly the right moments to feed the crowd's appreciation and control the match's pacing.

It's no secret, though, that this was a Rollins/D-Bryan affair. Both of these guys absolutely brought it in spades here, with Rollins bumping like a freak and Daniel Bryan delivering an offence indicative of why he simply is the best wrestler in North America today. One shouldn't discredit either Ambrose or Reigns, though. Ambrose just gets it in terms of developing his character into his matches and was integral in setting up Kane's hot tag as a nuclear moment. Reigns, well, he's just cementing himself as the future mega-star with these Shield tags; delivering smash-mouth, gutteral performances that I'm sure are making those in the back giddy. While I think he doesn't quite have it yet, he most certainly is becoming my top prospect in this super group._​


ATF said:


> Okay, for a little debate here, which is the best pure wrestling match, non-gimmick, of the last 2 years, that does NOT involve either Punk or Bryan?


Punk/Bryan pretty much eliminates almost everything I'd have jumped on (most notably The Shield tags!). I'm really not good at retrospective listings as I'll nominate something only for another match to jolt from memory. That said, and with those limitations, possibly Ohno/Regal or Rollins/Ambrose in FCW. Someone else will notably nominate something and jog my memory but that's what I'm going to go with. Fuck it.

Quick note, I didn't really keep up with every PPV/show around 2011/2012 so I probably missed a good few matches others would have liked.


Spoiler: RIP FCW



Seth Rollins Vs Dean Ambrose (18/09/2011 FCW)
Kassius Ohno Vs William Regal (21/03/2013 WWE)
The Shield Vs John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus (17/02/2013 WWE)
Antonio Cesaro Vs Kofi Kingston (01/05/2013 WWE)
Dean Ambrose Vs Seth Rollins (24/06/2012 FCW)
Seth Rollins Vs Dean Ambrose (02/10/2011 FCW)
Seth Rollins Vs Dean Ambrose (28/08/2011 FCW)
Seth Rollins Vs Damien Sandow (30/10/2011 FCW)
Seth Rollins Vs Damien Sandow (13/11/2011 FCW)

Ambrose/Regal love, too.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

About to rewatch Shield/Hell No & Kofi.  These guys could already have a two disc DVD if they wanted.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Haven't watched the Shield match yet since I had to forward through to watch GAME WRESTLING ON RAW for the first time in 3 fucking years but it's definitely on the list for tomorrow. Given the reviews in here I'm really looking forward to it. Shield rule the world though they really do. I can't speak enough about how perfect these guys are as a group and their chemistry with Kane and Bryan is off the charts crazy.

WOTY 2013 - SHIELD and it's not even close imo. If you don't believe by now you never will. 

:mark: for tomorrow when I get to watch.

I'm perfectly fine with Curtis Axel being the new Heyman guy and what a debut for him, eh? His new theme is all sorts of epic but I loved his old one too. He was growing on me in NXT. Guy has a rocket strapped to his ass. Let's see what he does with it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Agreed on all counts, Starbuck. No doubt Shield are joint WOTY. And I'm cool with Axel as well. He's improved his wrestling ability quite a bit (obviously didn't get to see much last night but his recent performances have been good), his mic skills are better, the theme is badass and with Heyman behind him he could easily work.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Thing with The Shield is it's still three guys, so to call them Wrestler of the Year.. doesn't really work and none of them have had any special individual matches (Reigns hasn't had any). I'm gonna stick with Punk for now.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched Extreme Rules and here ate a few ratings from what I cared enough about to rate

Kofi/Ambrose - **
Team Hell No/Shield- **1/2
Show/Orton - ***
Cena/Ryback - **
Lesnar/Triple H - ***1/2


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I would say that The Shield not being considered as early WOTY because it isn't three guys is a weak argument. The Shield is a cohesive unit that has a total of MAYBE 6 single matches this year. Last year I had the Young Bucks as my WOTY because it is unfair to say, well Nick Jackson and Matt Jackson weren't in any singles matches so they can't be WOTY, even though they are two of the most consistent in the world right now. 

So in my opinion I think The Shield is WOTY thus far, although Danielson makes a fucking strong case, guy has been consistent everywhere this year, can't wait to see what else each group has to offer in the remaining seven months this year.

Also, on a sidenote, really thinking about doing a Jericho project, as in something similar to what KOK did with Cena or is doing with Lesnar, or maybe even Henry, OR VADER :mark:

Any particular suggestions?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Vader would be so much fun. You can hit up WCW, WWF, & Japan all in one shot. Unless the Vader project is assigned to one portion of his career at a time. Nonetheless, ultra fun.

I'm on board for Curtis Axel too. I have faith in Heyman to get him over properly + I enjoy Hennig's ring work to have faith that his matches should be solid enough. If he can branch out with his own personality via this, well, that would be mighty fine. I think while Heyman is there to give him flavor and instant credibility, that is what WWE is hoping to see happen. Kid has the spotlight - will he shine?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm fucking dying reading through some of the threads from last night in the Raw section. Like wow. Some people are MAD MAD MAD at _everything _it seems. People writing Hennig off after one week, one nights worth of exposure to him. It's brilliant. I'm not totally sold on him just yet but I'm more than willing to give him a chance. I'd like to see a little more personality but that will come over time. An interesting start to his career for sure. 

The overarching angle is rather interesting too imo. Not what I was expecting them to do either but then again, if you had told me that Triple H vs. Michael McGillicutty was going to be the main event of Raw I would have laughed in your face. They have my interest. Heyman endorsement for Axel is big. HHH main event on Raw in debut is BIG. If the dirt sheets are right and this turns into some big McMahon/WWE vs. Heyman stable war type of deal then it's HUGE for him and the WWE as a whole. Intrigued for next week to say the least.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Tanner1495 said:


> I would say that The Shield not being considered as early WOTY because it isn't three guys is a weak argument. The Shield is a cohesive unit that has a total of MAYBE 6 single matches this year. Last year I had the Young Bucks as my WOTY because it is unfair to say, well Nick Jackson and Matt Jackson weren't in any singles matches so they can't be WOTY, even though they are two of the most consistent in the world right now.
> 
> So in my opinion I think The Shield is WOTY thus far, although Danielson makes a fucking strong case, guy has been consistent everywhere this year, can't wait to see what else each group has to offer in the remaining seven months this year.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I don't see how you can call Shield the *wrestler* of the year. Team of the year? Absolutely, heck maybe even team of the decade, but they aren't one wrestler no matter which way you spin it.


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I'm fucking dying reading through some of the threads from last night in the Raw section. Like wow. Some people are MAD MAD MAD at _everything _it seems. People writing Hennig off after one week, one nights worth of exposure to him. It's brilliant. I'm not totally sold on him just yet but I'm more than willing to give him a chance. I'd like to see a little more personality but that will come over time. An interesting start to his career for sure.
> 
> The overarching angle is rather interesting too imo. Not what I was expecting them to do either but then again, if you had told me that Triple H vs. Michael McGillicutty was going to be the main event of Raw I would have laughed in your face. They have my interest. Heyman endorsement for Axel is big. HHH main event on Raw in debut is BIG. If the dirt sheets are right and this turns into some big McMahon/WWE vs. Heyman stable war type of deal then it's HUGE for him and the WWE as a whole. Intrigued for next week to say the least.


I find it amusing that the people who were disappointed it wasn't RVD or some other former star are the same people who are constantly clamoring and complaining for new stars. The least we could do is give the guy a chance. 

Though I will say, I'd much rather he go by Joe Henning. Not only is the name "Curt Axel" odd but the whole naming him in front of the audience was kind of dumb as well.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> I'm sorry, I don't see how you can call Shield the *wrestler* of the year. Team of the year? Absolutely, heck maybe even team of the decade, but they aren't one wrestler no matter which way you spin it.


I didn't even see your post when I posted that, I was saying in my perspective lol, I mean I could definitely see that, I mean I still think Danielson gives them fierce competition, but I totally can see where you come from 



Obfuscation said:


> ^Vader would be so much fun. You can hit up WCW, WWF, & Japan all in one shot. Unless the Vader project is assigned to one portion of his career at a time. Nonetheless, ultra fun.


All at once, straight up every single match I could fine, ending with a Top 100 Vader matches, and probably just stars for "reviews" as if I wrote a review for every single Vader match it would take a long ass time. I'm still open to suggestions though, but Vader was very high on my list!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Tanner1495 said:


> I didn't even see your post when I posted that, I was saying in my perspective lol, I mean I could definitely see that, I mean I still think Danielson gives them fierce competition, but I totally can see where you come from


No worries.  It's just when I think of "wrestler of the year", I think of one wrestler, not 2+ people on a team, no matter what the quality. Which is why I scratch my head when I see Shield as WOTY (it's not a knock at them). If one member on the team stood out, then potentially I'd choose them but in The Shield's case, I see them all contributing just about equally in the tag matches, but in singles matches I'd have Punk, Sheamus, and even Taker above any three of them.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

everytime I see this guy post i envision Ross from friends typing from his computer lol. I read his posts with Ross voice. If the shield cannot be used as WOTY becuase its three guys Ill say Ziggler is WOTY


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I mean I give The Shield WOTY just because they are just so fucking good, I mean like I said earlier I gave the Young Bucks WOTY last year, I hope maybe Danielson will get a singles push soon (after Payback I hope) and he gives us something very special


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#Mark said:


> I find it amusing that the people who were disappointed it wasn't RVD or some other former star are the same people who are constantly clamoring and complaining for new stars. The least we could is give the guy a chance.
> 
> Though I will say, I'd much rather he go by Joe Henning. Not only is the name "Curt Axel" odd but the whole naming him in front of the audience was kind of dumb as well.


It was a peculiar promo to say the least with the renaming etc but I really liked it truth be told. It was like a rebirth of sorts for him. It let the fans get some insight into his heritage, let him pay homage to his family but still marked him as something different. I also like the fact that he's SO unknown and SO green in a lot of ways, if that's the right word for it. Maybe fresh or wet behind the ears would be better terms. Simply put, he doesn't have the physical dominance of Brock Lesnar nor the mic skills of Punk to immediately set him apart. I like the fact that even though he's a Heyman guy, he's still a rookie on the rise which is why I think the whole deal with Trips worked so well. Hopefully as the story progresses we get to see Heyman mold him from rookie to legit competitor to perhaps a champion? Who knows but they certainly have my interest for Raw next week. 

Well played Vince. You got me again you fuck. 

:vince2

WOTY is giving the nod to best quality and standard of work that year. If it happens to come in the form of a trio or a duo rather than a solo act then so be it. Shield = WOTY for me by far. Just too much quality and consistency to ignore over a technicality.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually was hoping it be Cesaro to be honest.Come down to the ring with a suit and everything. I have not problem with Henning as long as he can deliver. He showed my in that half of a match with hhh then fandango has in to matches with Jericho


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cesaro would've been a soooooooooooo much better choice. He continues to be a beast in the ring he is and Heyman can cover his weakness on the mic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Raw last night killed all the momentum from Extreme Rules for me. I haven't even watched it past the segments I caught last night. Read the spoilers and saw McGillicutty as Heyman's third client and it just turned me off completely. Then Randy Orton beating Swagger in a meaningless match only killed my interests even further.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I expected him to walk down to the ring with a suit, and a brand new gimmick, heyman would be his mouthpiece from now on


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

WAIT, Mysterio Project! I am doing Mysterio, holy shit! Did Mysterio ever do Japan stuff? Oh well who cares Mysterio :mark: I am starting tomorrow after the last day of school, or Vader, or Mysterio, Jericho? Benoit? EDDIE? I seriously do need some help.

Also ratings for stuff

Ryback/Cena ***1/2+
Lesnar/HHH ***3/4 
O'Neil/Sheamus ***

Holy shit Ryback/Cena was awesome good lord


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> WAIT, Mysterio Project! I am doing Mysterio, holy shit! Did Mysterio ever do Japan stuff? Oh well who cares Mysterio :mark: I am starting tomorrow after the last day of school, or Vader, or Mysterio, Jericho? Benoit? EDDIE? I seriously do need some help.
> 
> Also ratings for stuff
> 
> ...


Benoit works to perfection.

Today I completely forgot about checking out Raw and just 'celebrated' his birthday (which is the 21st) by watching all his title wins in WWE. Enjoyed the fuck out of it too!

Ratingz:
_(IC Title)_
Benoit vs Angle vs Jericho (Wrestlemania 2000) - ★★¾
Benoit vs Jericho (Raw 8/5/2000) - ★★¾
Benoit vs Billy Gunn (Armageddon 2000) - ★★½
Benoit vs RVD (Raw 29/7/2002) - ★★★½
_(Tag Titles)_
Benoit & Jericho vs Austin & HHH (Raw 21/5/2001) - ★★★★½
Benoit & Angle vs Mysterio & Edge (No Mercy 2002) - ★★★★½
Benoit & Edge vs Batista & Flair (Raw 19/4/2004) - ★★★¾ (This was way better than I remembered it being)
Benoit & Edge vs La Resistance (Taboo Tuesday 2004) - ★★
_(US Title)_
Benoit vs Jordan (SummerSlam 2005) - N/A
Benoit vs Booker T (No Way Out 2006) - ★★★¾
Benoit vs Mr. Kennedy (Smackdown 13/10/2006) - ★★★¾
_(World Title)_
Benoit vs HHH vs Michaels (Wrestlemania XX) - ★★★★★


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Benoit works to perfection.
> 
> Today I completely forgot about checking out Raw and just 'celebrated' his birthday (which is the 21st) by watching all his title wins in WWE. Enjoyed the fuck out of it too!


I haven't seen much of Benoit, and he has a shit ton of good stuff too, in fact fuck it it's Benoit Project starting tomorrow, someone give me a good list of some stuff from anywhere please 


EDIT: Ok going with Jericho because I have a friend that will do Jericho, so yup, DEFINITELY JERICO


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*






*Rhyno vs K-kwit- Sunday Night Heat 4/301*

Time for some more Rhyno gems. This time, it's in a match on Sunday Night Heat against K-kwit now known as R-Truth. "Get rowdy!" Always loved that theme for whatever reason. It's pretty catchy. Anyways, let's get to the match. Rhyno shoves K-kwit and K-kwit hammers alway on Rhyno with punches. Rhyno reverses one of K-kwit's punches and strikes him in the abdomen. Rhyno Irish whips K-kwit with K-Kwit reversing it and hitting Rhyno with a corkscrew scissors kick. K-kwit then follows it up with a hurricanrana. K-kwit hits Rhyno with a cross-body for a pin but Rhyno kicks out at 1. K-kwit dropkicks Rhyno out of the ring. As K-kwit heads outside the ring, Rhyno shoulder thrusts K-kwit toward the ring apron. Rhyno throws K-kwit back inside the ring and kicks him in the abdomen. Rhyno goes for a cover but K-kwit kicks out at 2. Rhyno hits a suplex on K-kwit for a cover but K-kwit kicks out. Rhyno works on K-kwit's back and abdomen for a bit and goes onto the top rope turnbuckle. Rhyno tries to go for a diving headbutt but isn't able to connect as K-kwit moved out of the way. Rhyno tries to hit K-kwit with a clothesline but K-kwit ends up giving Rhyno a superkick. Both Rhyno and K-kwit hammer away with punches on each other to get the upperhand. K-kwit gets the upperhand on Rhyno by hitting him with a reverse STO for the pinfall but Rhyno kicks out of it. Rhyno hits K-kwit with a gore and picks up the.

I actually liked this match. The first half of the match started off slow but it really picked up towards the end. The in-ring aspect of it isn't anything noteworthy but still a decent match for Sunday Night Heat's standards. *Rating:* ★★1/4


*Rhyno vs Crash Holly & Molly Holly- RAW is War 4/901*

The backstory to this match is Rhyno hitting Molly Holly with a gore last week on RAW Is War after defeating Crash Holly. Rhyno runs inside the ring with Rhyno and Crash Holly hammering away on each other as the match gets started. Crash Holly gets a pin on Rhyno but Rhyno easily kicks out at 1. Rhyno hits Crash Holly with a sick spinebuster. Rhyno begs Crash Holly to get up for a gore but Molly Holly distracts Rhyno and slaps him in the face. Crash Holly gives Rhyno a hurricanrana following it up with a pin but Rhyno kicks out at 1. Rhyno hits Crash Holly with a clothesline. Rhyno Irish whips Crash Holly to the ropes and gives him a belly to belly suplex. Rhyno covers Crash Holly but Crash Holly kicks out. Crash Holly fights back at Rhyno and hits him with a flying clothesline. Crash Holly then hits Rhyno with a cross-body. Rhyno tries to hit Crash Holly with a clothesline, misses, and then follows it up by hitting him with a gore instead. Rhyno gets the pinfall on Crash Holly to win the match. 

Can't say anything about this match really. It was just there I guess. The back and fourth between Rhyno and Crash Holly was fun I guess. For the life of me though, I don't know why this was a Handicap match when Molly Holly did little to nothing in the match. Not a bad match but certainly nothing noteworhty. *Rating:* ★3/4


*Rhyno vs Kane for the WWF Hardcore title- Smackdown 4/10/01*

This match is for the WWF Hardcore championship. Rhyno along with Edge & Christian make their way to the ring. Rhyno goes after Kane while Edge & Christian go after The Undertaker who takes them both out. Kane takes Rhyno out of the ring and helps The Undertaker with Edge & Christian. Taker and Kane throw both Edge and Christian out of the ring. As Taker takes care of Edge & Christian, Kane goes after Rhyno. Rhyno takes Kane's head and bashes it onto the steel steps. Rhyno and Kane gets back inside the ring. Rhyno Irish whips Kane toward the ropes but gets a big boot from Kane. Kane goes on the top turnbuckle and lands a flying clothesline on Rhyno. Kane gives Rhyno a clothesline but here comes the Two Man Power Trips with steel chairs in their hands as they make their way to the ring. Triple H and Stone Cold Steve Austin attack Kane with the steel chairs in their hands. Austin is definitely going to work with that steel chair. Rhyno pins Kane and wins the match. 

Too short to rate but this was great seeing Austin and Triple H beat the piss out of Kane with those steel chairs and Rhyno capturing the WWF Hardcore title was also great to see. *Rating:* N/A




Gamblor said:


> Cesaro would've been a soooooooooooo much better choice. He continues to be a beast in the ring he is and Heyman can cover his weakness on the mic.


This. :mark:

Him and Bray Wyatt would have been great choices. I don't mind Curtis Axel but I just don't see anything in him. Hopefully I'm wrong and he'll be able to carry on the push hes been given thus far. He has really improved a lot since his NXT season 2 days so that's a plus. I'm intrigued to see how well the pairing between Axel/Heyman goes.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

ER 2013 Ratings:
Fandango vs Jericho 2.75
-This very was very enjoyable but nothing special.
Kofi vs Ambrose 2.0
-Short sweet and to the point. Loved the part where Kofi hit his finisher and Ambrose rolled out.
Sheamus vs Mark Henry 2.5
-I expected a lot more.
Del Rio vs Swagger 3.0
-I had no expectation for this but ended up loving it.
The Sheild vs Hell No N/A
-I didn't get to see this. Sucks cause I was looking forward to it most.
Big Show vs Orton 3.0
Very fun match.
Cena vs Ryback 3.25
- I expected it to be good and it was better than expected.
HHH vs Lesnar 2.75
-Ok from what I saw.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching some :HHH2 tonite, 

out of these 4 which you watch. I never watched any

hhh/austin 3 stages
hhh/ batitsa HIAC
hhh/foley HIAC
HHH/ y2j LMS


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> watching some :HHH2 tonite,
> 
> out of these 4 which you watch. I never watched any
> 
> ...


Batista/HHH or Jericho/HHH. Both are amazing and 2 of HHH's four best matches ever. Can't go wrong with either one. I prefer Batista/HHH.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's what I adore about the Axel move; he's different than either BROCK or Punk by a wide margin and it helps to develop a certain dynamic between the four. If Heyman had to bring in a Cesaro or an RVD or a Barrett (individuals who have already achieved success) it wouldn't have really made a difference (same goes with a monster), whereas with Axel/Punk/Brock you get the ROOKIE looking to make a name for him self, the BEST who is looking to validate himself, and the BEAST who wants to make a ton of money while destroying people. I love the move, and I think that no matter what happened last night, it was the ultimate rub to take on HHH in the main event.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tanner1495 said:


> Did Mysterio ever do Japan stuff?


Fun matches with Psicosis and Ultimo but nothing special. Watch Rey's 2010. I need someone else to tell everybody his matches with Luke Gallows, Drew McIntyre, Taker (5/28 which smokes the Rumble) and Mike Knox are the shit.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Fun matches with Psicosis and Ultimo but nothing special. Watch Rey's 2010. I need someone else to tell everybody his matches with Luke Gallows, Drew McIntyre, Taker (5/28 which smokes the Rumble) and Mike Knox are the shit.


I have already seen the majority of his 2010 stuff, and the Gallows and McIntyre matches are the shit, everybody go watch them, right now. None of them go like 15+ minutes but good god Mysterio was a fucking machine, also not to gloss over the fact that McIntyre was the shit as well, but Mysterio was on a level of his own in 2010.

So yea, GO WATCH THIS STUFF NOW


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I still can't see the appeal in Ziggler, When judging all his in-ring aspects, He's just overly average, bar the selling category which he still dosen't hold a candle in when compared to same type sellers like Shawn and Randy. I would take McIntyre over as WHC than him.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Uh, yeah, do VADER then. Have you seen the IYH match with Ken Shamrock? It rules. Then watch him SQUASH Brad Armstrong at the 1990 GAB. Then watch Vader/Arn v. Stars 'n' Stripes 4/24/95, which is WCW MOTYC in a pretty bad work year (though not as bad as people say) for them. Then watch the AWESOME ten minute match he had with Austin in 96. Oh, what they could have done with fifteen minutes. Oh.....what they could have done.......


EDIT -McIntyre smokes Ziggler.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> watching some :HHH2 tonite,
> 
> out of these 4 which you watch. I never watched any
> 
> ...


Batista HIAC is the only one I have seen and it's great. It's at least a 4. I haven't seen it in a while.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> That's what I adore about the Axel move; he's different than either BROCK or Punk by a wide margin and it helps to develop a certain dynamic between the four. If Heyman had to bring in a Cesaro or an RVD or a Barrett (individuals who have already achieved success) it wouldn't have really made a difference (same goes with a monster), whereas with Axel/Punk/Brock you get the ROOKIE looking to make a name for him self, the BEST who is looking to validate himself, and the BEAST who wants to make a ton of money while destroying people. I love the move, and I think that no matter what happened last night, it was the ultimate rub to take on HHH in the main event.


The only thing I'd have to disagree with here is you saying it was the "ultimate rub", when literally all of the attention was given to Triple H. Why did the match even take place? what did it really accomplish? Axel got his ass handed to him for the most part, by a WEAKENED Triple H. I don't recall it even being 5 minutes, so the rookie made no impact whatsoever. All I remember him doing was a few punches and a dropkick. Not to mention he got slapped and fell to the ground earlier in the night. If Triple H leaves to sell this "concussion", I'm afraid it'll just leave Curtis Axel standing there with nothing. If anything, Triple H's appearances ever since he came back to feud with Brock have shown that very little has changed, and the guy still has a humongous ego. I'm quite positive that this whole thing is more about Triple H's retirement than trying to make a new guy look strong.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I Love that rey/taker match from may 10 smokes their rumble match. Rey was the man in 10

HHH/batista vengence ****- good match, brutal and what a match between brawler should be like.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Indeed he is.
> 
> I was actually thinking about this last night; in the WWE this year, the elite workers have been CM Punk, BROCK LESNAR, & The Shield..... They REALLY don't have as much babyface talent as they do heel talent like, at all. Danielson is fucking awesome but stuck in a tag role for what's seemingly not going to last that much longer, Cena has been the shits this year bar two classic matches, Sheamus hasn't really done anything....
> 
> Anyways, time for some more Brock in Japan.


Wanna hear your thoughts from the Angle match when you get to it. I was personally a fan, kept it simple and exciting. Everyone else is like nah, it sucked, didn't like it. *** 3/4 for me.



ATF said:


> Okay, for a little debate here, which is the best pure wrestling match, non-gimmick, of the last 2 years, that does NOT involve either Punk or Bryan?


If we're just talkin WWE, yeah it's gotta be Orton/Christian from OTL. Sheamus/Show from HIAC is another top pick. 



Choke2Death said:


> Raw *last night killed all the momentum from Extreme Rules* for me. I haven't even watched it past the segments I caught last night. Read the spoilers and saw McGillicutty as Heyman's third client and it just turned me off completely. Then Randy Orton beating Swagger in a meaningless match only killed my interests even further.


There was momentum coming out of Extreme Rules? 
jk brah, gonna go watch this raved about Shield match now. (Y)


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Uh, yeah, do VADER then. Have you seen the IYH match with Ken Shamrock? It rules. Then watch him SQUASH Brad Armstrong at the 1990 GAB. Then watch Vader/Arn v. Stars 'n' Stripes 4/24/95, which is WCW MOTYC in a pretty bad work year (though not as bad as people say) for them. Then watch the AWESOME ten minute match he had with Austin in 96. Oh, what they could have done with fifteen minutes. Oh.....what they could have done.......
> 
> 
> EDIT -McIntyre smokes Ziggler.


My friend said he would do either Vader or Jericho, and I have decided for the final time that I am doing Vader (sorry for the flip flop guys lol) going to be starting tomorrow after my last day of school :mark:

Vader/Shamrock I absolutely fucking love, just watched it back a week or two ago and it was ****** easily, Vader is the fucking man, probably start with his "earlier" stuff, depending on what I can find.

Also before I start this project, does anyone know of a free document program that I can organize stuff in? Because currently I have a notebook just filled with matches, dates and ratings and I would love to transfer them and have a Vader page.

One last thing, if I did write-ups for this project (most likely daily) in the form of on Tumblr or on WordPress, would anyone read stuff there? Because a tad bit off topic, but a few of my friends and I are wanting to start a "media" type group and I'd love to do some writing somewhere and get some feedback on it from you guys 

Anyways, The Man They Call Vader, I am pumped, tomorrow it's time, It's Time, IT'S VADER TIME!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tanner1495 said:


> Also before I start this project, does anyone know of a free document program that I can organize stuff in? Because currently I have a notebook just filled with matches, dates and ratings and I would love to transfer them and have a Vader page.
> 
> One last thing, if I did write-ups for this project (most likely daily) in the form of on Tumblr or on WordPress, would anyone read stuff there? Because a tad bit off topic, but a few of my friends and I are wanting to start a "media" type group and I'd love to do some writing somewhere and get some feedback on it from you guys


Without word programs and stuff you could prob just start a blogspot and make a list for yourself there. Plus you sound like you want to start a blog anyway. Blogs are srs bzns, tho. You can't abandon that shit after a few months. You can't. What is this prograps in my sig? Who does that belong to? Prick must have abandoned that, whoever it is. 


Reading through my blog I kind of miss the 2011 time when I was watching the WCW and stuff (like Mark Henry being champion). Gooooood times.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston *(_RAW 5/20_)

I'm not gonna lie, I feel a little dirty putting a match with Kofi fucking Kingston in the MOTYC thread, but hell, he deserves it. What a great, great match. I've been feeling some of the Shield's matches as of late have been getting overrated due to the fact that we're actually getting _quality _tag matches in the 'E right now and people just aren't used to it, but this one deserves all the praise it gets. Let's start with the obvious in saying how the match was structured almost perfectly. FIP segment with Kofi was highly entertaining (seriously, Reigns is a fucking animal) and the place just went BONKERS when Bryan got the hot tag. "I'm not the weak link!" Great character work from D-Bry as he's always just trying to kick the shit out someone to prove his worth and that little son of a bitch goes 150 mph the entire match. Not only did I love ALL of Rollins' bumping, but did anyone else notice how well he sold going after Bryan in the corner when he does that backflip? That really caught my eye too. Having the face team clean house going to commercial was a great idea.

Come back from commercial, match is still great. Another good FIP segment with Bryan as Shield members are talkin shit to him the whole time. I marked HARD for the Buckle Bomb in the corner, Bryan vs. Rollins needs to happen NOW please. Hot tag to Kofi was legit almost my favorite part of the match. He comes in lookin for nothing but revenge and those punches in the corner + the uppercut to Ambrose were NASTY and he sold it like a champ. Bryan literally running into the corner to set up for the basement dropkick was one hell of a touch. Whole thing breaking down at the end was fantastic, just leaving Reigns and Kane to slug it out. Stereo dives from Bryan & Kofi were awesome and Ambrose & Rollins taking them out was even better (Kofi's selling on that post shot was fucking great), but I honestly wasn't _too _fond of the finish. It just seemed a little flat to me for such a damn great match. I kinda wished Kane would've kicked out of the spear to a roar from the crowd and they would've had to finish him off with the Rollins & Reigns double team or Ambrose's weird looking finisher. Minor gripe really, but I wanted more. 

Regardless of me being iffy on the finish, this was by far the best tag match of the year & Shield's best match of the year thus far too. I was legit shocked by how much I enjoyed Kofi in it, his selling and viciousness were a blast. Bryan was of course the ultimate babyface underdog we know and love, Rollins bumped like a lunatic, & Reigns makes me wanna break something because he's so fucking INTENSE. Damn good match and I feel like I'm rating it too low, but it's just really hard for me to say it was better than Cena/Punk & Taker/Punk since those were on a much more meaningful level & both drew a little more emotion out of me. For now, we'll go with:

***** +*


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Without word programs and stuff you could prob just start a blogspot and make a list for yourself there. Plus you sound like you want to start a blog anyway. Blogs are srs bzns, tho. You can't abandon that shit after a few months. You can't. What is this prograps in my sig? Who does that belong to? Prick must have abandoned that, whoever it is.
> 
> 
> Reading through my blog I kind of miss the 2011 time when I was watching the WCW and stuff (like Mark Henry being champion). Gooooood times.


Yup, starting one tomorrow, already tracking down Vader matches, will probably have my first write up tomorrow or Thursday


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was thinking about starting a blog the other day to contain my random STARZ & show reviews & DVD reviews & shit.

I heard that Cal fellow had a blog.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I was thinking about starting a blog the other day to contain my random STARZ & show reviews & DVD reviews & shit.
> 
> I heard that Cal fellow had a blog.


It's weird, I actually found Cal's blog before I realized he posted here, this was years ago though lol.

Oh, and blog is made, will have probably an introduction post tomorrow to the project and links and stuff, but for now I must prep for the last day of junior year :mark:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Finished watching some RAW segments. Thoughts:

Ryback promo to start, not even going to bother. Bad, once again. His content is good, but he just doesn't have _it_. It constantly sounds like he's out of breath and rushing through his words. Calm down son.

I laughed so hard when I found out Michael McGuillicutty was named Paul Heyman's new guy. Just the way he walked to the ring, I couldn't help but laugh. One of the greenest motherfuckers they have, hopefully this move can help the kid. 

I also care to ask anybody who still makes claim that Punk is not incredibly important to the WWE, is it just a coincidence that while he's taking this break, Triple H and Undertaker are having TV matches and the third Lesnar/HHH match was likely moved as early as ER? That just speaks volumes on how much the WWE themselves feel about how valuable Punk is.

*But anyway, the positive, the Shield match...
*
Holy. Shit. 

All I can say is finally, fucking finally, a Shield match that isn't being vastly overrated just because it's the Shield. This match fucking RULED. Kingston, Ambrose, KANE, DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN, hell all six of these guys tore the place down with their work last night. All I see around here is below average to decent matches from The Shield being given ****+, but this match is every bit as deserving of being held in that regard. The great thing is, while I was watching this, I could see that the company has built this team up flawlessly. HellNo/Kingston cleared the ring, stared down the Shield, and what happened? The crowd fucking exploded. Similar to Triple H, the audience at this point desperately want to see the Shield lose, and that is the reaction they need. Perfect.

What makes this so great is that the teams are so balanced. You have a beast, a highflyer, and an all-arounder on both sides, and it just meshed so well. Marked for the Bucklebomb, by the way. The pace, the story, the workrate, it was all perfect. Kane tearing shit up proving he can still hang with these guys was fantastic. 

This is the best Shield match to date. No doubt in my mind about it. And the third best match of this year so far, behind Punk/Taker and Cena/Punk. I give their TLC match a ****, and I thought this match blows it out of the water. *****1/2* for it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> Firstly, Taker at WM26 says hello to that second sentence.
> 
> Secondly, it's not that Brock didn't do an amazing job with the selling, but because Brock shouldn't be getting hurt like that at all unless after something crazy... and if there was ever a time to do it, it would've been after that sick dive when Lesnar fought Cena a year ago. But Lesnar shouldn't be selling an injury like that, HE should be injuring people. HE should be beating them senseless and toying with them or just absolutely destroying him. He did it to the NUMBER 1 GUY in the company, but he can't do it to a guy who the past few years has only wrestled a handful of times each year. He's always fighting HHH like it's just another back and fourth regular match, and it takes away from his mystique.
> 
> ...


Arguable, but okay.

Wait what? Brock should never get hurt? What am I seriously reading? It's pro wrestling. I don't see how him getting hurt takes away from his 'mystique'. Any human being can suffer an injury. And it's not like HHH whooped his ass and injured him, Brock got hurt because of a reckless mistake he made. I honestly can't fathom the idea that Lesnar or ANY wrestler EVER should not get injured or have to sell limb work or look vulnerable.

Stop comparing Brock's work to the Cena match. Seriously, people need to stop this. That match is one of the best in company history because of its uniqueness and realness. You can't expect Lesnar to replicate that ever again. 

And no dude, that's wrong. None of the HHH/Lesnar matches have been worked like "just another back and forth match." Minus Hunter's early babyface shine period, Brock dominated at Summerslam until Trips found his opening with the stomach weakness. At Mania, Brock tossed HHH around and for the most part completely owned him. HHH needed distractions from Michaels, a blatant low blow and weapons to get on top. And at Extreme Rules the knee injury gave Hunter the impetus to work evenly with him. 

Again, wrong. HHH jumped Brock from behind to gain an early advantage in the cage match but after that Lesnar started to dismantle him, tossing him into and around the cage for fun. It was only after Lesnar hurt his knee that Hunter was able to work over Brock and sustain serious offense. And to me you're contradicting yourself. On one hand you're saying Lesnar shouldn't get injured because it makes him look weak or takes away from his aura or whatever, but now you're saying that it doesn't make sense for him to be able to fight through the injury and work evenly with HHH? Doesn't his ability to do that create the same effect of him looking like a monster? First you want Lesnar dominating, now you're saying HHH dominating would've made more sense? I don't get it. I think you would've bitched either way.

The psychology and story of the cage match, the individual performances from everyone involved but especially Lesnar and Heyman, and the big moments came together perfectly. Excellent match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wanna see them do Shield vs Khali/Otunga/Zeke, just to find out if Shield is some group of voodoo witch doctors incapable of having a bad match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Let's go through this piece by piece:



Saint Dick said:


> Arguable, but okay.
> 
> Wait what? Brock should never get hurt? What am I seriously reading? It's pro wrestling. I don't see how him getting hurt takes away from his 'mystique'. Any human being can suffer an injury. And it's not like HHH whooped his ass and injured him, Brock got hurt because of a reckless mistake he made. I honestly can't fathom the idea that Lesnar or ANY wrestler EVER should not get injured or have to sell limb work or look vulnerable.


In Lesnar's case, it shouldn't happen except in special cases. The example I laid out before would've been perfect and the stomach selling was fine due to the well-known issues Lesnar has with that area. However he ended up randomly hurting his knee that served little point aside from to justify HHH kicking Lesnar's ass, which he was doing anyway and had been for most of the past year in segments and matches alike.



> Stop comparing Brock's work to the Cena match. Seriously, people need to stop this. That match is one of the best in company history because of its uniqueness and realness. You can't expect Lesnar to replicate that ever again.


It's not the quality of that match I expect (and then again, I don't consider it anywhere near as high as some others), but that style match is what the majority of Lesnar matches should be like. Obviously not exactly like that (move for move doesn't need to be the same, it doesn't need blood all the time, etc.) but whoever is facing Lesnar shouldn't get in much offense unless it's a streak match with Taker (and even then they can go the route they did for WM27), or they're ready to put over a younger guy massively like Sheamus, or Ryback when he was a face, or someone along those lines. That mystique in the first Cena match, with Lesnar dominating Cena is the exact foundation they should've built the Lesnar/HHH matches on. They didn't and that took a lot away from Lesnar.



> And no dude, that's wrong. None of the HHH/Lesnar matches have been worked like "just another back and forth match." Minus Hunter's early babyface shine period, Brock dominated at Summerslam until Trips found his opening with the stomach weakness. At Mania, Brock tossed HHH around and for the most part completely owned him. HHH needed distractions from Michaels, a blatant low blow and weapons to get on top. And at Extreme Rules the knee injury gave Hunter the impetus to work evenly with him.


Brock had his moments in those matches, and I admitted the Summerslam match favored Lesnar, but not to the extent you're making it out to be, and so I'm not wrong, you are. The matches followed a standard big match formula. They go through the match, each get their control periods and then go into a finishing sequence, hitting finishers, teasing tap-outs, etc. They were all like this. In the Mania match, again, Lesnar has his moments, but HHH gets in just as much offense. And HBK, outside of one failed super kick attempt, did nothing to get in Lesnar's way. He was a non-factor for most of the match and was out there for no reason. And then ER... before the injury and after the injury they were still working evenly which is an issue in itself, up until HHH started owning Lesnar and in this case, Heyman saved Lesnar's ass several times. Made Brock look just as weak as he has been in this feud. 



> Again, wrong. HHH jumped Brock from behind to gain an early advantage in the cage match but after that Lesnar started to dismantle him, tossing him into and around the cage for fun. It was only after Lesnar hurt his knee that Hunter was able to work over Brock and sustain serious offense. And to me you're contradicting yourself. On one hand you're saying Lesnar shouldn't get injured because it makes him look weak or takes away from his aura or whatever, but now you're saying that it doesn't make sense for him to be able to fight through the injury and work evenly with HHH? Doesn't his ability to do that create the same effect of him looking like a monster? First you want Lesnar dominating, now you're saying HHH dominating would've made more sense? I don't get it. I think you would've bitched either way.


Let me clarify, I WANT Lesnar to absolutely dominate HHH, but in the case of the cage after Lesnar started showing the injury, it would've made SENSE for HHH to dominate the match. The problem is nothing changed from before the injury and after. It didn't make any sense that the injury wouldn't hinder Brock to a greater extent. I would've bitched about something because there was something to always bitch about, whether it be the senselessness in Lesnar's injury not changing much in the match or compared to their other matches, or the fact Lesnar should be dominated and should've never been in a position where he'd be injured anyway, it's all just blasphemous irrational garbage that had no road to a proper ending. It's like the feud tries to cover the issues, but then creates more issues as it goes and eventually leads to a point where going the right way doesn't make sense in the realm of kayfabe that they've put out. It sounds like I'm making no sense with everything but that's because the whole structure of the matches is what makes no sense and that's what I'm explaining. Can't make sense out of thin air.



> The psychology and story of the cage match, the individual performances from everyone involved but especially Lesnar and Heyman, and the big moments came together perfectly. Excellent match.


To each his own. I've already explained numerous times the issues I had above, as well as in previous posts with the pacing and action. Lesnar's performance is the only one worthy of praise I'd say. Heyman was kind of just there and HHH didn't do anything special himself aside from some decent limb work. Lesnar's selling is what keeps me from putting the match on the level of their Mania match, which was disastrous.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*TOP 20 DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE MATCHES:*

*#16: w/ Kanyon vs. Benoit/Saturn GAB 99 *


Spoiler: 16



The buildup video is most certainly worth a watch, with the basis behind it being that Benoit and Saturn get screwed by both Flair and Kanyon who both turn heel on them on two separate occasions. Out of all the different combinations, the team of Page and Kanyon is my favorite of the Triad members. 

The match starts off in typical Benoit fashion where he kicks asses and chops chests. DAT FOCUS! Saturn and Benoit control this match from the get-go with their synchronized clotheslines and suplexes. DDP and Kanyon try to get this match to the outside in order to get the numbers in their favor, which they do successfully. My goodness, this crowd will never stop screaming “Asshole” to Kanyon. Love the way that Kanyon and Page don’t bother hooking the leg in their pin covers to add to their arrogance. LOL at Kanyon’s missed moonsault and his resulting bump that was very similar to the one that Cody Rhodes once did. Now is Benoit’s chance to tag in his partner.

Immediately when Saturn comes in, he tosses around everybody and kicks people’s faces in. I don’t know if it’s just him teaming with Benoit here, but Saturn is a pretty underrated face. Saturn’s ready to corner DDP, but Kanyon hits a nasty electric chair drop on him. Everyone please take the time to marvel at the beauty of DDP and Kanyon’s control segments. These two always do something impressive. Kanyon and DDP continue to recycle this brilliant strategy of purposely frustrating Benoit in order to get the referee’s attention on Benoit, which gives them time to double team Saturn. Slowly this angers the crowd but this only builds up the eventual crowd pop that will come when Saturn finally tags in Benoit. DDP gets overzealous when running into Saturn which gives Saturn the chance to tag in Benoit. Goodness gracious, this man is taking on all the Triad members in succession. WOW that nearfall on the dragon suplex was SO close. Benoit and Saturn go for their double top rope spot, but Saturn’s top rope maneuver leads to a really nice looking Diamond Cutter. As the frenzy gets more volatile, Bigelow gets himself in the action to make this a 3-on-2 battle.

Suddenly a wild Malenko comes out of nowhere to equalize the brawl, but the referee turns his attention on Malenko, which leads to an assisted Diamond Cutter on Benoit for the Triad victory. This is a really good tag match, but I will say that the star of the show was really Benoit. Nonetheless, Kanyon and Page give us a 101 for heels on how to wrestle an interesting control segment as a tag team. Just another addition to the list of great tag team matches in WCW during 1999.

Recommended for further viewing: Jersey Triad vs. Benoit, Saturn, and Malenko (7/5/99). Don’t forget to scoop out all the other great tag matches of 1999 (Slamboree 6 man, Spring Stampede, Superbrawl).



*#15: Vs. Johnny B. Badd World War III 95 *


Spoiler: 15



Not many people realize this, but DDP’s first actual feud as a wrestler in WCW was as a heel against Johnny B. Badd. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that these two wrestled against each other for two years. DDP’s character at this point is akin to that of an abusive boyfriend similar to Daniel Bryan in early 2012. Kimberly cuts a promo before the match complaining about how DDP does not appreciate her cleaning and cooking for him. Ah, whatever. The winner of this match gets the services of the Diamond Doll as well as the television title.

To start off the match, DDP does some more White Henry trash talking and also slaps Marc Mero like we all wish we do. Badd is taking control in the early going, but Page resorts to pulling the hair to get the leverage advantage. “SHUT UP YOU PEOPLE!” – DDP. I just can’t :lol . Now Badd pulls Page’s hair as a form of turnabout. Oh man, DDP continues to heel it up by throwing Kimberly into Badd in the outside. Page does a really cool looking spinning pancake from the tombstone position, which leads to Page raising both of his hands up to signify that his maneuver was a “10”. Part of Page’s gimmick at this time was that Kimberly would hold up score sheets whenever something happened in a match, but her frustration over DDP doesn’t allow her to do that. With all due respect to Badd, the real star of the show continues to be Page and his terrific heel act. The bumping, the trash talking, the taunting, the arrogance; everything. 

Mero gains momentum after a clothesline and a powerbomb, which causes Kimberly to get out a score sheet for Mero showing a “10+”. She really has earned her money here with her sideline performance. Mero starts to build confidence, but his overconfidence causes him to act like a cruiserweight, which is where Page gets back in control. A common thing that happened in WCW during this time was that every single wrestler used the tombstone piledriver (such as one that Mero uses here), possibly as a message to the WWE. The finish was kind of disappointing with Badd hitting a few moves for the win, but this was still a great match. Badd takes the spoils of the match, but thankfully Kimberly comes back to Page in the future while Mero goes to the WWE to get another beautiful girl on his side. Of course, our good buddy Mr. Brocktagon eventually inserted his COCKTAGON into Sable, so everything worked out for the better. Badd’s overall showing in this match is not that bad (no pun intended), but what we should concentrate on is how brilliant Diamond Dallas Page is at every single aspect of wrestling here.

Recommended for further viewing: DDP/Badd at Superbrawl in 96




*#14: Vs. Chris Benoit 2/5/98*


Spoiler: 14



At just under nine minutes, this is probably going to be the shortest (maybe not >_>) of all the matches in this review. However, in these few minutes, these two put on an awesome showing that displays how competitive the US Title scene of 1998 was. It should also be noted that the match looks like it took place in an environment from Silent Hill with all the fog and smoke covering the ring. You gotta see it for yourself.

To start off this competitive bout, Page and Benoit go into a collar-and-elbow tie-up that goes on all the way from the middle of the ring to the outside. These guys have so much mutual respect for each other. This match is really interesting because Benoit forces Page to wrestle a more “technical” style, but Page does pretty well himself. Love the gasps that come whenever DDP does a snapmare when everyone is expecting him to do the Diamond Cutter. The story here is that both guys have a finishing maneuver that can come at any moment, so they both must stay aware of all possibilities. Clearly Page does not pay ample attention as he gets put into the Crossface, but luckily he was near the ropes. Now Page tries to sneak in the Diamond Cutter, but Benoit escapes in time.

At this point, the match transitions from a technical contest into an all-out brawl. STIFF punches from both guys to all parts of their upper body. Benoit targets the kidneys of Page that are wrapped up (a common DDP trope in his matches). Now we get some classic WCW suplex throws from Benoit. Although this is a face-face match, Benoit seems to be playing the heel here while DDP is the face. Suddenly a surge of energy helps DDP, but Benoit is so smart that he alleviates the onslaught. Page signals for the Diamond Cutter, but the Flock enters the ring. LMFAO at Kidman missing a top rope splash. Diamond Cutters EVERYWHERE. Indecisive finish, but this match had so much intensity and really developed in the short time that it was given. Very hidden special gem of WCW. Did I also mention that this was the main event?

Recommended for further viewing: These two had a rematch on the 2/26/98 edition of Thunder. Notable for DDP bleeding towards the end of the match which causes the camera to zoom out.



*#13: Jersey Triad vs. Benoit/Saturn Bash At The Beach 99 *


Spoiler: 13



I reviewed a similar match to this for #16, but this one was probably even better than that great match. 1999 for WCW was full of pathetic trash, but the tag team division was straight fire. For those of you who do not know, this match is initially advertised as DDP/Bigelow vs. Benoit and Saturn, but the Jersey Triad is allowed to switch with Kanyon in the middle of a match, making this essentially a handicap match. Match starts off with a fast-paced brawl frenzy between Page and Perry. Soon enough, we get even manlier with Benoit and Bigelow beating the Moslem out of each other. Benoit and Saturn get the better out of DDP and Bigelow, which causes the Triad to regroup. At this moment, we see the Triad switch between Page and Kanyon. 

I can’t help but note just how physical and painful every move by Benoit is. Combine that with Bobby Heenan’s hilarious yelling whenever Benoit hits a move and we get a great control segment. Although this is essentially a handicap match, Saturn and Benoit have no issue fighting the numbers game as they make the Triad play to their style. Now Page switches in and he makes an effort to take the action to the outside as a way to play to their extra man advantage. GOOD GOD what a suplex by Bigelow. Not exactly sure why, but the fans are cheering like crazy when Bigelow puts Saturn in a sleeper. Probably another WCW-style fight in the crowd. After a long period of Saturn getting worked on, Benoit finally gets the tag in and throws every living thing around half-way across the ring. Sucks for him though that DDP attacks Benoit when he wasn’t looking. This leads DDP to taunt the crowd and stand on the barricade in a spectacular manner. Slowly but surely the confidence of the Triad builds as they take turns destroying Benoit and taunting the crowd. LOUD “Asshole” chants. Kanyon and DDP have some real cool tag team maneuvers together. LOL at Perry Saturn pulling DDP out of a pin cover while standing on the apron. Benoit finally tags in Saturn in a really cool manner, but the referee does not see the tag and Benoit gets spiral bombed for his troubles. I swear, the Triad are probably more over than most main eventers. 

In the turning point of the match, Bigelow goes for a moonsault only to miss, which is Benoit’s chance to tag in Saturn. Saturn and Benoit hit tandem top rope moves only for DDP to hit a top rope move of his own when a pin attempt is made. Kanyon found some powder near the bottom of the ring, which he uses both successfully on Saturn and unsuccessfully on DDP. LMFAO at DDP doing the Diamond Cutter on Kanyon while he is blinded. Benoit makes one last ditch effort by pinning Kanyon, but Bigelow from the outside drags Kanyon’s foot on to the bottom rope. Benoit hits a german suplex pin to give his team their last chance, but that was not enough. Benoit and Saturn ultimately succumb to trash can hits from DDP as well as a Diamond Cutter for the three count. Awesome match with a tremendous babyface performance from the team of Benoit and Saturn while a HOT crowd adds to the bout.

Recommended for further viewing: Benoit/Flair vs. Triad on Thunder. Another sweet Benoit babyface performance with an equally as good DDP heel showing.



If you haven’t noticed or are not keeping track, three of the last four matches on this list involve Benoit in some way. Not only is Benoit one of Page’s best opponents, I truly believe that the corollary could be said regarding Benoit. Expect some more unsung great matches in the upcoming review. I would also like to thank *The Beast Incarnate* for thinking of the "Cocktagon" joke.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

If UNDERTAKER can randomly hurt his knee at WRESTLEMANIA, then Lesnar can hurt his knee by ramming it into a steel cage.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> If UNDERTAKER can randomly hurt his knee at WRESTLEMANIA, then Lesnar can hurt his knee by ramming it into a steel cage.


Absolutely if we're going to try and make Lesnar look as ordinary as possible, but again it's the fact he shouldn't be booked like that. Him or anyone else ramming his knee into the steel cage shouldn't happen in this day and age. Brock needs to be rebuilt after having a 1-2 record (now 2-2) since returning, being a monster and destroying everything in his path. Him being put in that position and selling an injury like that is the whole issue I have with it when he needs to be the one causing injuries for his opponents to sell, not the other way around.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think Lesnar accidentally hurting his knee was a perfectly good idea to give Trip an opening. It's just that Brock came off kind of weak while selling it. It's like he was in the role of John Cena in last year's Extreme Rules match (while HHH was doing a horrible Brock Lesnar impression or something), only he came off way more whimpy than Cena, and sounded like he was almost crying. The fact he seemed to NEED Heyman to interfere didn't help, either.

I think 'Lesnar beat HHH with one leg' is badass. It just didn't feel badass when Brock was selling. Felt like he was playing the wrong role, and IDK about anyone else but Lesnar didn't come off as a badass to me in any of that. 'My knee, Paul', 'That's my manager', etc were perfect whimpy CM Punk lines, but for Lesnar it didn't feel right. A monster don't complain about the pain.



Tanner1495 said:


> It's weird, I actually found Cal's blog before I realized he posted here, this was years ago though lol.


the fuck!? I'd known Cal (via webz) for four years before I knew he had a blog and I know others who knew Cal longer than that that had no idea he had a blog. Cal, you're getting recognition!



funnyfaces1 said:


> *TOP 20 DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE MATCHES:*


Aw man I really want to see that Benoit/Page from 2/98 now. I'll keep a mental note of it (hopefully).


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree with you that the way they've used him against Triple H isn't the best way to use Brock Lesnar, but we're looking at a guy who nearly killed the Undertaker at WrestleMania 27. I don't agree with the part where you said their matches have been back and forth. The feud? Yes, of course, but Triple H took an unfair advantage in every one of their matches. Brock finally had to even it out inside the Cage with Heyman's help.

Yes, I would prefer if Brock continued to beast it like he did against Cena, but hey, this isn't about the character of Brock or his legacy for that matter. Each match is an island of itself and separate from what we think BROCK LESNAR should be. I came to terms with that when Cena beat him last year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah1993 pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I've been trying to get across. 

And HHH attacking Lesnar during Lesnar's entrance at ER was cool to get HHH on the offense, but again my view of how Lesnar should be booked is he should've been able to turn that around and start beating down HHH, and not just go back and fourth with after getting beat down for a couple of minutes by HHH for a few minutes. Of course I still wonder why HHH attacked Lesnar from behind in the first place in this encounter? I mean he had won the brawl they had when HHH came back, won the match at Mania (in decisive fashion) and won the brawl they had in the cage on Raw. He really didn't have any reason to feel threatened by Lesnar enough to attack him from behind like that. It just didn't make any sense to me HHH would do it at ER coming off several brawl victories and a win at Mania, and not at the Mania match, where at the very least he was coming off a loss at Summerslam. Again, just didn't make any sense.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> Let's go through this piece by piece:
> 
> In Lesnar's case, it shouldn't happen except in special cases. The example I laid out before would've been perfect and the stomach selling was fine due to the well-known issues Lesnar has with that area. However he ended up randomly hurting his knee that served little point aside from to justify HHH kicking Lesnar's ass, which he was doing anyway and had been for most of the past year in segments and matches alike.


I would say the rubber match of a year long feud inside a steel cage is a good enough reason for him to get hurt. 



> It's not the quality of that match I expect (and then again, I don't consider it anywhere near as high as some others), but that style match is what the majority of Lesnar matches should be like. Obviously not exactly like that (move for move doesn't need to be the same, it doesn't need blood all the time, etc.) but whoever is facing Lesnar shouldn't get in much offense unless it's a streak match with Taker (and even then they can go the route they did for WM27), or they're ready to put over a younger guy massively like Sheamus, or Ryback when he was a face, or someone along those lines. That mystique in the first Cena match, with Lesnar dominating Cena is the exact foundation they should've built the Lesnar/HHH matches on. They didn't and that took a lot away from Lesnar.


I'm not talking about the quality of the match either, I'm talking about the layout. Most pro wrestling main events are going to be back and forth to some degree. I see nothing wrong with that. In every instance a particular circumstance has taken place to justify HHH having a lot of offense. It's not like he's straight up competing with Lesnar.



> Brock had his moments in those matches, and I admitted the Summerslam match favored Lesnar, but not to the extent you're making it out to be, and so I'm not wrong, you are. The matches followed a standard big match formula. They go through the match, each get their control periods and then go into a finishing sequence, hitting finishers, teasing tap-outs, etc. They were all like this. In the Mania match, again, Lesnar has his moments, but HHH gets in just as much offense. And HBK, outside of one failed super kick attempt, did nothing to get in Lesnar's way. He was a non-factor for most of the match and was out there for no reason. And then ER... before the injury and after the injury they were still working evenly which is an issue in itself, up until HHH started owning Lesnar and in this case, Heyman saved Lesnar's ass several times. Made Brock look just as weak as he has been in this feud.


Lesnar didn't absolutely dominate like he did against Cena. He didn't even dominate that much at all. But in every instance of HHH having sustained offense in the matches it has been as a result of gaining unfair advantages or exploiting a weakness. I don't see how that makes Lesnar look weak at all. HHH had a short babyface shine period at the start of the Summerslam match, then Brock dominated and Hunter only got back into it because of Brock's stomach issues. In the Mania match HHH benefits from HBK's presence at least three times. To hit a spinebuster, to hit a Pedigree and one time on the outside. Brock was extremely dominant in the WM match apart from down the finishing stretch. Like the Summerslam match HHH had a brief babyface shine to start things off, but he needed to jump Brock from behind for that to happen, and then Brock destroyed him. Trips was bumping like a champ for Lesnar in the early going. Naturally he had a lot of offense after the injury. I don't see the problem with that.



> Let me clarify, I WANT Lesnar to absolutely dominate HHH, but in the case of the cage after Lesnar started showing the injury, it would've made SENSE for HHH to dominate the match. The problem is nothing changed from before the injury and after. It didn't make any sense that the injury wouldn't hinder Brock to a greater extent. I would've bitched about something because there was something to always bitch about, whether it be the senselessness in Lesnar's injury not changing much in the match or compared to their other matches, or the fact Lesnar should be dominated and should've never been in a position where he'd be injured anyway, it's all just blasphemous irrational garbage that had no road to a proper ending. It's like the feud tries to cover the issues, but then creates more issues as it goes and eventually leads to a point where going the right way doesn't make sense in the realm of kayfabe that they've put out. It sounds like I'm making no sense with everything but that's because the whole structure of the matches is what makes no sense and that's what I'm explaining. Can't make sense out of thin air.


How did the injury not hinder Brock? I don't buy that they worked the same before and after the injury. That's not how I saw it at all. I don't agree with and don't even understand some of what you're saying here. If the matches didn't make sense to you so be it. They all made perfect sense to me and the psychology was spot on.



> To each his own. I've already explained numerous times the issues I had above, as well as in previous posts with the pacing and action. Lesnar's performance is the only one worthy of praise I'd say. Heyman was kind of just there and HHH didn't do anything special himself aside from some decent limb work. Lesnar's selling is what keeps me from putting the match on the level of their Mania match, which was disastrous.


HHH bumped like a champ early on, Lesnar sold brilliantly and Heyman was awesome. If you didn't understand the story of the match or what they were going for then I get why you didn't think it was good. 



Gamblor said:


> Absolutely if we're going to try and make Lesnar look as ordinary as possible, but again it's the fact he shouldn't be booked like that. Him or anyone else ramming his knee into the steel cage shouldn't happen in this day and age. Brock needs to be rebuilt after having a 1-2 record (now 2-2) since returning, being a monster and destroying everything in his path. Him being put in that position and selling an injury like that is the whole issue I have with it when he needs to be the one causing injuries for his opponents to sell, not the other way around.


What do you mean in shouldn't happen in this day and age? If it happened to pre-UFC Brock, which it has, it would've been viewed as perfectly normal. Am I supposed to think that because he went and won a MMA belt he's invincible and can't get injured?



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I agree with you that the way they've used him against Triple H isn't the best way to use Brock Lesnar, but we're looking at a guy who nearly killed the Undertaker at WrestleMania 27. I don't agree with the part where you said their matches have been back and forth. The feud? Yes, of course, but Triple H took an unfair advantage in every one of their matches. Brock finally had to even it out inside the Cage with Heyman's help.
> 
> Yes, I would prefer if Brock continued to beast it like he did against Cena, but hey, this isn't about the character of Brock or his legacy for that matter. Each match is an island of itself and separate from what we think BROCK LESNAR should be. I came to terms with that when Cena beat him last year.


This. First of all, Triple H has always been portrayed as more of a badass than John Cena. HHH is the cerebral assassin, Cena is a perennial babyface underdog even though he is the top guy in the company. Secondly, as you said, it's not about how we feel Brock should be booked. It's about the matches as separate entities. Yeah Brcok should look like a beast in his matches but once again, to echo what you said, Triple H looked for ways to even the playing field in all of their matches. In none of the three matches did he straight up dominate Lesnar in an equal one on one sense.



Gamblor said:


> Yeah1993 pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I've been trying to get across.
> 
> And HHH attacking Lesnar during Lesnar's entrance at ER was cool to get HHH on the offense, but again my view of how Lesnar should be booked is he should've been able to turn that around and start beating down HHH, and not just go back and fourth with after getting beat down for a couple of minutes by HHH for a few minutes. Of course I still wonder why HHH attacked Lesnar from behind in the first place in this encounter? I mean he had won the brawl they had when HHH came back, won the match at Mania (in decisive fashion) and won the brawl they had in the cage on Raw. He really didn't have any reason to feel threatened by Lesnar enough to attack him from behind like that. It just didn't make any sense to me HHH would do it at ER coming off several brawl victories and a win at Mania, and not at the Mania match, where at the very least he was coming off a loss at Summerslam. Again, just didn't make any sense.


Of course he had reason to feel threatened. It's Brock Lesnar. I don't care if he won brawls in TV segments, he got his arm broken by the guy twice and yes, he managed to win decisively at Mania, but he needed a low blow, multiple chair shots, multiple kimura attempts, a DDT on the steps, a death blow with the sledgehammer and a second death blow (Pedigree on the steps) to put him away.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, most of my responses to what you've posted would be what I've already said in this little debate, but since you brought it up, what was the story they were going for? I didn't see any great storytelling or anything of that sort, nor Heyman doing anything special or Trips' bumping being anything out of the ordinary, but I suppose those last two are subjective. What story was I supposed to get out from the match?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i dont understand why people still have a problem with John beating Brock

IT WAS THE PERFECT MATCH ENDING DAMMIT


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Nah, it wasn't the perfect ending, but it was fine.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

in regards to the story and performances, it was the perfect ending

except for either a double KO where Cena kills himself trying to bring lesnar down with a suicide move

or Lesnar just snaps cena's arm and he passes out from the pain and blood loss


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The last one you suggested was on my mind, although a suicide finish would've been awesome :mark:

In other news, I watched these two TV matches that are often highly regarded, both of them.

John Cena vs. CM Punk (2/25/2013): ****1/2*
~ Okay, this is an awesome match marred by a few key issues. First the things I loved, the submission exchanges, a whole batch of new counters we've not yet seen before and the desperation piledriver. They also managed to keep this long with equal offense and no real work-over segments, which was good to see, but what did hurt tho was how Cena's previous failures against Punk wasn't really brought into play. There wasn't really any storytelling from either man, just a good back and forth match, which is fine for a number one contender's match, but this was built as Cena's ultimate thwarting of his rival who he's never beaten before. A couple of other things I thought was bad in this match were Cena's selling of the count-out spot, which was probably the most horrible count-out save I've ever seen. He's lifeless for nine counts, no movement at all, then at nine he jumped up and runs into the ring and then he's lifeless again? :| The timing of Cena's reverse of the GTS into the STFU was fucking stupid, and his usual no sell of anything that happened before just threw this match a bit for me. At least, it had MOVEZ.

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (6/23/2005): *****1/4*
~ Oh my god, what an amazing match. I think this was the only one in their series I've not rewatched since 2005 and now I want to rewatch all of them again. Mysterio is the perfect babyface and he brings so much to this match that it makes it even more amazing that Eddie is the star. To see such simplicity used to such perfection and still getting the crowd to erupt at every turn is brilliant character work. I'm probably not exaggerating when I say that this is one of the very few match where a play-by-play review wouldn't be boring. I have a little problem with Rey during his final comeback where he doesn't sell his back, and I thought Rey bringing Eddie's bruise back into play as desperation when he wasn't in control would've pushed it over the top, but I'm really happy with what we got.

Another thing I want to note regarding these two matches is the commentary, which played a huge part in me enjoying the latter while the former suffered big time from the running idiocy that is RAW 2013 commentary.

Shield vs. Hell No & Kofi next.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I still think my problem with Ryback vs Cena is just flying through the stage is so meh

its not that hardcore


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Shield vs Team Hell No/Kofi is great.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

JOAL.com said:


> I still think my problem with Ryback vs Cena is just flying through the stage is so meh
> 
> its not that hardcore


It is for 2013 WWE.

The most EXTREME of all EXTREME RULES.

:cole3

Shield just can't be stopped, they even topped their best Raw match from 2013 this past Monday. More 6 man tags every week please E :$


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

cena through the spotlight was far more explosive

literally


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Backlash 2009 was amazing as a whole 

Even though the main event was pretty meh.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

disagree with that. I really enjoyed the main event. Edge's "I hate john cena" gimmick was absolute gold. and it showed. he really hated the son of a bitch


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

The promo before the PPV on Smackdown was great, i'll admit to that but i thought the match was just okay, odd pace to begin with followed by an FU into the crowd which was hilarious :lol followed by Big Show coming out of nowhere and putting Cena into a light. 

Did Show ever explain why he did that?

But the promo was great, on par with his promo with Foley prior to the HIAC match with Taker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watched the most recent Shield tag. And yeah, it's really good. I think the Shield don't come of as heely as the probably should on promos and stuff, but they're ALLLLLL heel in matches. Reigns is so great. He's probably my favourite guy in the entire WWE behind Henry and Cesaro. I think Ambrose can be kind of crummy selling stuff like snap-mares, but whatever negatives this had were offset by the whole thing being a really fun, energetic tag match.

That HHH angle was weird. I expected the worst 'I love you Pop' bullshit from Helsmley and we sure as hell didn't get that, but it wasn't...definitive, I guess.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

SHIELD vs. Kane, Daniel Bryan & Kofi Kingston (5/20/2013): ****3/4*, TV MOTY, second best SHIELD match after TLC


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (6/23/2005): *****1/4*
> ~ Oh my god, what an amazing match. I think this was the only one in their series I've not rewatched since 2005 and now I want to rewatch all of them again. Mysterio is the perfect babyface and he brings so much to this match that it makes it even more amazing that Eddie is the star. To see such simplicity used to such perfection and still getting the crowd to erupt at every turn is brilliant character work. I'm probably not exaggerating when I say that this is one of the very few match where a play-by-play review wouldn't be boring. I have a little problem with Rey during his final comeback where he doesn't sell his back, and I thought Rey bringing Eddie's bruise back into play as desperation when he wasn't in control would've pushed it over the top, but I'm really happy with what we got.


:mark: 

Amazing match. Top 3 Smackdown match ever and likely the #1 for me ahead of the Austin/Benoit Edmonton Title match. Their chemistry is forever spectacular in the counters and way Eddie works as a base for all of Rey's fluid and graceful attacks, but the injection of Eddie's character and the storytelling that immerses itself in the action just creates a depth to the work that pushes this into the upper echelons of matches WWE have put on. Incredible match and performance by both. GAB is a perfect Eddie heel performance. So sinister, manipulative and equally pitiful and desperate.

Watch Finlay/Matt Hardy Smackdown 6/22/07 if you haven't already btw. Incredible match which might only be below Cena/Umaga & Cena/HBK Wrestlemania for overall MOTY. Top 5 Smackdown match imo and me and Yeah1993 seem to be the only two who ever sing its praises. Matt is incredible selling the leg after Finlay torques it and seizes control and when you've got Finlay in control complimented by Hardy working underneath you know the match will struggle to dip below great. Matt also has this brilliant Fujiwara esque sell of a stiff Finlay forearm that I'll forever love btw. Excellent match.



Yeah1993 said:


> Watched the most recent Shield tag. And yeah, it's really good. I think the Shield don't come of as heely as the probably should on promos and stuff, but they're ALLLLLL heel in matches. Reigns is so great. He's probably my favourite guy in the entire WWE behind Henry and Cesaro. I think Ambrose can be kind of crummy selling stuff like snap-mares, but whatever negatives this had were offset by the whole thing being a really fun, energetic tag match.
> 
> That HHH angle was weird. I expected the worst 'I love you Pop' bullshit from Helsmley and we sure as hell didn't get that, but it wasn't...definitive, I guess.


I concur with Seabs that Ambrose is a bit clunky in some of his technical execution and the odd way he bumps and that it seems his biggest advocates overlook these aspects of his work, but I do love the subtle ways he'll sell. He's the sort of guy who'll hold his jaw and touch his teeth after a stiff uppercut or just contort his body in unconventional angles when eating certain moves that I just dig. He adds a lot in terms of an unstable individual to the group and dichotomy, but I agree his character work and mannerisms do usually have to be prevalent to overcome his still often wayward execution on certain moves.

As for HHH, yikes. I laughed heartily at someone at DVDVR saying he'll continue to work with anyone and everyone until he gets that standing ovation post match he expected at Summerslam after the Lesnar match only to be met with universal apathy. Dear lord I curse that LA crowd to death for rubbing his ego and sending him on a perennial quest to get the perfect sendoff before he disappears for good.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> SHIELD vs. Kane, Daniel Bryan & Kofi Kingston (5/20/2013): ****3/4*, TV MOTY, second best SHIELD match after TLC


I'd still have Regal/Ohno from NXT as TV MOTY, but I watched this last night and having not seen Cena/Punk yet its currently my number 3 TV MOTY after Show/Del Rio LMS.

*The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston, (5/20/13)*

Very good match here. Its a common complaint of mine how WWE ironically seem to have done away with their usual reliable STF structure for tag matches that produced an abundance of quality tags this past decade. Recently everything feels so rushed and hindering the faces and heels from playing to the conventions of a tag match and integrating the best aspects of the style into matches. Heel control segments feel so tame and directionless and a mere segway to the hot tag instead of becoming the centre of the match which builds anticipation. Here though the structure was fundamentally wonderful. We had a long babyface shine period with The Shield being overwhelmed and struggling to gain control and this continued even with Kofi playing a brief FIP before the commercial break. All the Shield bumped well for the offence of the faces and it tied in wonderfully to the desperation to finally overcome The Shield. Bryan's FIP spell was truly sublime. Little injections of heel tactics such as cheapshotting behind the ref's back and Rollins with the precise knee in the back to setup the FIP spell just kept the heat on The Shield and gave the crowd ample reason to become invested in the work. Loved the way in which the diverse styles of each member came into play to contain Bryan, with Rollins using his agility to cut off Bryan, Reigns and his brute power and then Ambrose smartly building to the hot tag by mimicking and toying with Bryan to the distain of the crowd. 

For the first time in forever the hot tag by Bryan felt emphatic and a crucial development in the match instead of a mere progression towards the finishing stretch. The subsequent crowd reaction for everything that unfolded in a chaotic and brisk manner further demonstrated how well a succint pace and work by all can capture a crowd's attention and I enjoyed the way in which The Shield once again were able to wrestle victory from the jaws of defeat and put away arguably the most determined and tenacious challenge to date. The TLC 6 man is still their best match imo, but this is comfortably second best for me. The pacing, the cut offs, the transitions, the overall structure and usage of each worker to create the perfect contrast and dynamic, Bryan's magnetic FIP work etc. Just marvellous work all round.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

While you're here, wanna give me some backstory on the Bullrope match you recommended? Gonna watch it today.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> While you're here, wanna give me some backstory on the Bullrope match you recommended? Gonna watch it today.


Its the third match I believe of their feud. The Cage match is the feud ender (excellent match btw). As far as I can recall, the two prior matches are shorter and basic brawls that establish Hansen as the bully and violent bastard that Colon will do well to overcome. There's also a brilliant segment after the BullRope match where Colon conducts an interview with Chicky Starr who belittles him and suckers him into a confrontation which allows Hansen to intervene and batter Colon before humiliating him and hog-tieing him before leaving. 

I've found a post which did a timeline of the feud for context purposes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LK7icA1yVw (match 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74w2Hq6QHt4 (match 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc52BJhEnyw (tag match with Hansen/Colon on opposite sides)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrgPa_6WAc8 (Bullrope match)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjpeiijOQw (Colon/Chicky Starr segment)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWKKl3Qipdk (first match after the interview attack)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rYRFmgIINY (Cage Match feud ender)

Hope that helps. I've seen the Bullrope and cage matches which are astoundingly great. Will hopefully watch the rest eventually to do a complete overview of the program. 

Match 1 and 2 are basically teases for the eventual bull rope match. You can watch both to obtain context for yourself if you wish, but basically the first one establishes Hansen as a bloodthirsty lunatic who is too much for Colon and the second sees a fuck finish to advance the program and still deny Colon revenge.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The World's Greatest Tag Team vs. The Hardyz from ONS 2007 is so good. The bumps + The creative use of ladders made for quite a match. ****1/4 in my book.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched Raw, nice the entrance music homage for Joe Hennig


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

(Y) @ Wool

I hate that ladder match tho.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> (Y) @ Wool
> 
> I hate that ladder match tho.


Whatever tickles you fancy tho.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> (Y) @ Wool


I went to PWO (forum where I first read about the matches) and a guy based in Puerto Rico wrote in depth to provide additonal context:

After the Chicky Starr interview where Hansen assaults and humilates Colon, they run a Memphis esque angle where Colon seemingly quits out of embarrassment and being unable to show his face. The faces unite to track him down and convince him to return and whilst Hansen is in Japan Colon has a brief feud with Chicky Starr where be breaks his leg via the figure four submission. Based on what the guy wrote about the 4th match (one after the attack and before the Cage match) it should explain Colon's usage of the figure four in that match and his obsession with using it to injure Hansen  .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Watch Finlay/Matt Hardy Smackdown 6/22/07 if you haven't already btw. Incredible match which might only be below Cena/Umaga & Cena/HBK Wrestlemania for overall MOTY. Top 5 Smackdown match imo and me and Yeah1993 seem to be the only two who ever sing its praises. Matt is incredible selling the leg after Finlay torques it and seizes control and when you've got Finlay in control complimented by Hardy working underneath you know the match will struggle to dip below great. Matt also has this brilliant Fujiwara esque sell of a stiff Finlay forearm that I'll forever love btw. Excellent match.


Yeah, re-watching the WWE 2000s, it's definitely a top 5 for SD. Thought it totally smoked the Michaels/Cenas, and I'd only have Cena/Umaga over it the whole year for WWE. Finlay/Rey 11/9/07 I thought was better than the Michaels/Cenas as well and would be my #3. 

I prefer Hardy/Finlay to the Edge cage match as Hardy's best, too. By quite a bit.


----------



## AussieBoy97 (Jan 6, 2013)

Anyone notice in the Elimination Chamber dvd, they edited out the botch kick from Alberto Del Rio? And the commentary during the incident.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, re-watching the WWE 2000s, it's definitely a top 5 for SD. Thought it totally smoked the Michaels/Cenas, and I'd only have Cena/Umaga over it the whole year for WWE. Finlay/Rey 11/9/07 I thought was better than the Michaels/Cenas as well and would be my #3.
> 
> I prefer Hardy/Finlay to the Edge cage match as Hardy's best, too. By quite a bit.


The Finlay/Hardy vs Michaels/Cena comparison is a tough one. If we take into account the respective performances and actual work/strengths of each match, I'd take Finlay/Hardy as superior (fwiw its the Mania match that I'm only struggling to have Finlay/Hardy above, I think its comfortably better than the Raw match) to Cena/Michaels. But its that age old discussion where one match may mechanically have more positive attributes going for it, but the competing match is deliberately wrestled differently and sets about capturing aspects of the match that will draw acclaim in a different sense. I love the big match atomsphere in Cena/Michaels and find Cena's performance keeps a consistent narrative of the young champion in his prime trying to firmly wrestle control of the company from the legendary veteran. It has the HBK emotion and palpatable atmosphere, but is far more traditionally structured and allows HBK to have his big spots which add to the story and theme instead of being there merely for show.

I think Hardy gives a better babyface performance than Cena in the respective matches and Finlay in control will forever be more investing to me than Michaels in control. But both matches simulatenously achieve what they set out to. In Finlay/Hardy you get a brilliant limb dissection and selling performance from Hardy whereas in Cena/Michaels the work is more basic and less succint but ties into the theme of the match perfectly and generates the atmosphere and tension a Wrestlemania Main Event requires all whilst being wrestled smartly.

I absolutely would not argue with Finlay/Hardy being superior, because in many respects it is. However the comparison between a smartly worked and perfect TV match vs a smartly worked and near pefect PPV main event will always have contrasting aspects to distinguish if we hope to rank one above the other. Cena/Michaels is a personal favourite for how great a match they construct and the way in which they master the Main Event style to accentute its strengths and more or less hide the glaring weaknesses that identify themselves in other big WWE matches. Its a judgement call tbh.


Would you say Finlay/Rey 9/11/07 is their best match? I haven't seen the 3/24/06 match in forever and I know its typically thought of that both are the best matches in their series. I'd like to try and track down the '06 match to see which I prefer since I'll certainly vote for one on my final ballot.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Shield vs Hell No and Kofi was really good. Loved the control segments and I agree with WOOLCOCK that it felt like a control segment and not just the set up for the usual hot tag finishing stretch. WWE may have limited the tag team style of wrestling but The Shield has found so many creative ways to get around them. Quite frankly, the way The Shield works it doesn't even feel like they're holding back. But could you imagine what The Shield would be possible of if they were not being held back? 

I really loved when Kofi got the hot tag on Bryan. Bryan did a tremendous job of carrying the momentum by hitting the ropes hard and doing his usually back flip off the top into the elbow. The crowd really popped for that one. 

Man, The Shield really is the best damn thing going in the WWE. The Shield is the WWE if you ask me. And that's because the WWE is doing what they should be doing with damn near everyone- not restricting the guys to working solely the midcard or main event. The Shield is in everything. They're involved in both the midcard and main event. That's how you get people to take notice. Although, by having just The Shield have that sort of interaction, it has worked even more in their favour. No one else is involved in the main event feuds like The Shield.

Maybe it's a just a coincidence but it's a damn good one.The WWE couldn't have chosen three guys who had so much chemistry among each other.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

AussieBoy97 said:


> Anyone notice in the Elimination Chamber dvd, they edited out the botch kick from Alberto Del Rio? And the commentary during the incident.


Figured they would, but that's good. Makes the match a little better.



Fluze said:


> The World's Greatest Tag Team vs. The Hardyz from ONS 2007 is so good. The bumps + The creative use of ladders made for quite a match. ****1/4 in my book.


Didn't rate it quite that high, but yeah on the last watch I loved it. Somewhat of a forgotten ladder match over the years. Only thing I didn't like that was that sloppy ass spot where they flipped one of the Hardys over while they're legs were intertwined together. Idk what to call that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I preferred the Raw long-ass match to the Mania match by a lot shot. The Mania match had a middle-section that kind of felt average and I turned it off because I knew I wasn't going to put it on the 2000s list. the Raw match kept me entertained for the fifteen MILLION minutes it went and it could be somewhere in the bottom 5.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Would you say Finlay/Rey 9/11/07 is their best match?


Easily. Only one I'm voting for, and I have it above stuff like Eddie/Show and Rey/Noble (which as you might know I ADORE). I'd say it's the 6th or 7th best SmackDown match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think I'm one of the few who prefers Wrestlemania to Raw tbh. Something about the atmosphere it generates combined with the work that I adore. Mike wrote a great little overview of what I love about it better than I could at the other place. Raw match is one of Cena's most overlooked performances imo. It takes a special performance to make me want to watch a 60 minute Michaels match at the back end of the decade, but Cena did it with aplomb.

I'll have Finlay/Rey on my list without fail. Still searching for the 3/24/06 match just to see how it holds up as I know that one got some votes on the WWF/E Top 100.

I can't recall if you've seen Rey/Tajiri from September '03-January '04 and the series of matches it produces, but the September Smackdown match and 1/1/04 Smackdown match are competing for a place on my final ballot. No Mercy '03 was good but a step below both matches imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I prefer Hardy/Finlay to the Edge cage match as Hardy's best, too. By quite a bit.


Both are pretty even for me. Seem to be the best Matt Hardy performances off the top of my head. I do really love the Hardy vs Henry match following SummerSlam '08 too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Watch Rey's 2010. I need someone else to tell everybody his matches with Luke Gallows, Drew McIntyre, Taker (5/28 which smokes the Rumble) and Mike Knox are the shit.


Double post but fuck it. 

THIS.

I'd personally chuck in the Tyson Kidd match too. Not counting all of the work vs Punker throughout the year or vs SWAGGER. Good lord that year was fierce for Mysterio. Anyone who like Mysterio owes it to themselves to see the matches vs Gallows & Knox. <3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I think I'm one of the few who prefers Wrestlemania to Raw tbh. Something about the atmosphere it generates combined with the work that I adore. Mike wrote a great little overview of what I love about it better than I could at the other place. Raw match is one of Cena's most overlooked performances imo. It takes a special performance to make me want to watch a 60 minute Michaels match at the back end of the decade, but Cena did it with aplomb.
> 
> I can't recall if you've seen Rey/Tajiri from September '03-January '04 and the series of matches it produces, but the September Smackdown match and 1/1/04 Smackdown match are competing for a place on my final ballot. No Mercy '03 was good but a step below both matches imo.


I preferred the Mania match up until this year, actually. I think at this point the Raw match may be the most impressive thing Cena ever did. Not REALLY the best, but most impressive. An hour long Shawn Michaels match in the 2000s that I really like and it was pretty much all him. Dude was gold then.

Rey/Tajiri match-up rules yeah. I won't vote for any of them but 9/23/03, No Mercy 03 and 1/1/04 are pretty excellent.



Obfuscation said:


> Both are pretty even for me. Seem to be the best Matt Hardy performances off the top of my head. I do really love the Hardy vs Henry match following SummerSlam '08 too.


Hardy/Henry have another match on the last episode of 2008 ECW that I am busting to check out. Man, THOSE two fucking RULE. I wish there was an hour long ECW-like brand where guys could just wrestle like that again in the main event. I'd be content with Henry dominating a C-tier brand.


I never watched Rey v. Tyson Kidd :$


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WATCH IT. Always the chance you won't think as highly of it as myself, but really now you'll dig it. I can't see how you wouldn't from the ol Mysterio is the god of consistency standpoint. Plus Kidd was pretty bossy during it. Ultra double springboard moonsault ftw.

I dug the final Henry vs Hardy match even though it ended in DQ - I think. Their match to start off 2009 was good too. I don't think they had a bad match. SummerSlam '08 doesn't count. It wasn't a match. (N)

I guess NXT is kind of like that for a current show. Although that show is a blend of strong characters & really good wrestling, not _just_ wrestling. I miss Superstars being excellent. _*sigh*_


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Shield vs. Hell No/Kofi - *****

These guys are unstoppable. Bryan's burst of offence in the middle of the match once again steals the show. Every time the crowd goes nuts for it. Every single time. It's great to watch and this time it definitely felt different in that he was trying to prove to himself and to everybody that he wasn't the _little weak link_. I lol'd at Rollins calling him that. Shield are just so bossy. I can't imagine Raw without them tbh. They'd be utterly lost. I wonder what we're going to get from them at Payback. A 6 man or some individual stuff? Maybe we'll get rematches. I'm fine with that. I'm going to try and get my hands on all their matches and work my way through them to come up with a definitive list. Really really hope they just let them keep on like this for the rest of the year because it definitely has the legs. An eventual implosion angle would be great for Mania XXX, perhaps planting the seeds for it with their first defeat late this year at the hands of whoever. Good stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't think an Ambrose rematch will go down with Kofi getting his shot on Friday. Could be wrong as anything can happen to lead up to the third match. Feeling like they may move on following Smackdown.

I could see another Shield vs Hell No match easily. Perhaps another stip in the mix or standard tag, all the same. I'd encourage this, tbhayley.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Finlay vs. The Undertaker - SD 3/6/2007​*A promo by Finlay is initiated before the match, claiming the usual shtick of not being afraid of The Undertaker. What's funny is that the guy who usually cuts a promo on someone like Taker, is the one to be absolute terrified of him later on, However Finlay executes the match in a way of perseverance, bravery and up in your face style, rather the typical chickenshit heel act. As for the match itself, It was the example of brawl. Undie's punches were on point and hit to perfection, Don't really know if it was due to himself or the fantastically timed selling by Finlay. On another related note in the match, Undie's selling of the ribs was on even, If not better than Finlay's. The whole basis of offense by Finlay was on Undie's rib cage area. The facial expressions of Deadman hinted the struggle through pain, It kinda reminded me of his WM24 match against Edge, where he was constantly straining his face and holding his hip. The booking of Finlay is of good standard, He even gets a near fall on Deadman, Once or twice in the match. Overall, I'm leaning towards **** for this bout, As expected from a match consisting of two great workers. Maybe, even a contender for SD TV MOTY for 2007.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fluze said:


> *Finlay vs. The Undertaker - SD 3/6/2007​*A promo by Finlay is initiated before the match, claiming the usual shtick of not being afraid of The Undertaker. What's funny is that the guy who usually cuts a promo on someone like Taker, is the one to be absolute terrified of him later on, However Finlay executes the match in a way of perseverance, bravery and up in your face style, rather the typical chickenshit heel act. As for the match itself, It was the example of brawl. Undie's punches were on point and hit to perfection, Don't really know if it was due to himself or the fantastically timed selling by Finlay. On another related note in the match, Undie's selling of the ribs was on even, If not better than Finlay's. The whole basis of offense by Finlay was on Undie's rib cage area. The facial expressions of Deadman hinted the struggle through pain, It kinda reminded me of his WM24 match against Edge, where he was constantly straining his face and holding his hip. The booking of Finlay is of good standard, He even gets a near fall on Deadman, Once or twice in the match. Overall, I'm leaning towards **** for this bout, As expected from a match consisting of two great workers. Maybe, even a contender for SD TV MOTY for 2007.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

zep81 said:


>


:lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Love that match. A ton. Ultimate dream come true level. Although, it's not the Smackdown MOTY of '07 for me. Not with Finlay vs Hardy out there.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I remember only bits and pieces of the Matt vs. Finlay match. Gonna have to give it a rewatch. 

Lawler & Dundee vs. The Cyberpunks from 1996 is really fun. I thoroughly enjoyed Lawler's temporary heel up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah go for it. Finlay's dominance is tremendous. Matt's babyface work has the quality of Finlay's doubled. It's on a high pedestal.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Hardy/Mysterio 6/5/2003 doesn't get enough love, I thought that match was an incredible feud ender. I hate they did the rematch a week later but I know they wanted Matt out of the Crusierweight Division. Can't find their 8/21/2003 match nor can I find his highly regarded match with Benoit that year though I'll probably search them out later when I get off of work.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbnyqw_smackdown-05-06-2003-matt-hardy-vs_sport#.UZzScErm_-A


----------



## KSAB (May 22, 2013)

*Which DVD's to buy?*

I am a huge fan of the early WWF, by that i mean pretty much everything from WM1 up to about 1992. But i am after some advice. I know you can buy what Silver Vision are calling the 'Tagged Classics' which is two ppv events in one box, but i have heard that these are heavily cut and censored etc because of the wwf/wwe lawsuit. Then you can also buy the anthologies, which cost a bit more. So i don't know which ones to go for, or should i just try and pick up seome of the cheap original VHS tapes.? any one help please?
thanks
Stuart.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the San Diego match, I do believe. It's stellar. I agree it should get put over more. It does among the bigger Mysterio fans on here. Not to negate Hardy's work during it. He's the man in it too.


----------



## Bob-Carcass (Apr 5, 2013)

*Re: Which DVD's to buy?*

As far as i know the anthologies are also censored and have the logo blurred out, not a massive rpoblem but it is a pain, i think downloading them would be your best bet man, i know for a fact alot of guys on here know more about illegaly downloading and where to get certain things than i do haha so hopefully one of them see's this thread, apart from that your best bet is finding guys with old vhs's or even one of those wierd shops that sell ancient games and movies? Also Welcome to the wrestling forum. :vince5


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: Which DVD's to buy?*

Tagged Classics *are not* censored, all WWF logos etc are intact.

The early Mania's 1-5 and the early Survivor Series's 1987-1989 have certain cuts in some of the matches, like some of the B-Matches are cut short in length, same with some of the Survivor Series main events from that period too.

From WM7, the Tagged Classic are the full events.

The WM's/Survivor Series' from the Anthology Sets are uncut, but have the WWF taken out and the later volumes have the logo blurred.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Miz vs. Bourne RAW 9/21/2009 is damn good. In basic terms, It's a indie match in the big leagues, ala the swiftly exchanges and the fluid strings and combinations.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They clipped matches on those sets? That's bunk.

I'd rather have censors in the mix than clipped matches. I'd like to think that wouldn't be a minority opinion.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> They clipped matches on those sets? That's bunk.
> 
> I'd rather have censors in the mix than clipped matches. I'd like to think that wouldn't be a minority opinion.


The WWE Anthology Sets are uncut as far as the matches go, they are just censored in terms of the WWF logo etc, and some entrance music is edited...........like Demolition's lol.

The early Tagged Classics, like i said WM 1-5, some of the undercard matches are clipped yes, like for example the Mr.perfect vs Blue Blazer match, as the TC were transferred from the original VHS's, the main events remain intact.

Dunno why WM4 is clipped on the TG release though, i have the full 4 hour SV VHS, so dunno why they transferred the cut one...

From WM7 onwards, im pretty sure all events are uncut and of course they are *all* unblurred etc, We got the Bossman incident :


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WOOLCOCK;18664578[B said:


> ]I think I'm one of the few who prefers Wrestlemania to Raw tbh.[/B] Something about the atmosphere it generates combined with the work that I adore. Mike wrote a great little overview of what I love about it better than I could at the other place. Raw match is one of Cena's most overlooked performances imo. It takes a special performance to make me want to watch a 60 minute Michaels match at the back end of the decade, but Cena did it with aplomb.
> 
> I'll have Finlay/Rey on my list without fail. Still searching for the 3/24/06 match just to see how it holds up as I know that one got some votes on the WWF/E Top 100.
> 
> I can't recall if you've seen Rey/Tajiri from September '03-January '04 and the series of matches it produces, but the September Smackdown match and 1/1/04 Smackdown match are competing for a place on my final ballot. No Mercy '03 was good but a step below both matches imo.


No I enjoy their mania match better. Cena and Shawn MOST underrated match, outside of here it never gets the recognition it deserves 



Obfuscation said:


> Double post but fuck it.
> 
> THIS.
> 
> I'd personally chuck in the Tyson Kidd match too. Not counting all of the work vs Punker throughout the year or vs SWAGGER. Good lord that year was fierce for Mysterio. Anyone who like Mysterio owes it to themselves to see the matches vs Gallows & Knox. <3


Rey was the man in 2010, his match with drew before sumerslam :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> They clipped matches on those sets? That's bunk.
> 
> I'd rather have censors in the mix than clipped matches. I'd like to think that wouldn't be a minority opinion.


This X2.

FUCK clipped matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah anthology sets remain censoring the Attitude WWF logo, the mentioning of "WWF" & various themes. Vince and his cheapness editing themes you THOUGHT were original to his company. I don't enjoy that. :hayley2

Sucks about the clipping of matches. Perfect vs Blazer was a sub-six minute match yet it was cut. I don't quite get the logic there. Not like it matters; only one specific lads dislike.

Bossman WM incident, why do we all enjoy it? Probably b/c Taker did it. Ministry Taker can make morbid elements entertaining.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

IT IS JUST the first *WM 1-6* like i say, a couple of undercard matches are clipped, same with the *Survivor Series 87-89* i think, but anything after 1991 is indeed unedited, including music etc.

Like we have all the 98-02 DVD's unedited/unblurred


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know, the Bossman WM match was quite morbid in itself, and that certainly wasn't entertaining by any means :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Like we have all the 98-02 DVD's unedited/unblurred


That's phenomenal. My jealously is raging. If only those were released in America.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> I don't know, the Bossman WM match was quite morbid in itself, and that certainly wasn't entertaining by any means :lol.


8*D :taker

but of course the match SUCKS


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Tully-Magnum "I Quit" is ***** as far as i'm concerned. Only other one that comes close is Funk-Flair.


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

What are people's opinion of The Wrestling Classic?

Just downloaded it and was wondering what people thought of the event?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> That's phenomenal. My jealously is raging. If only those were released in America.


Yeah mate, glad i got them. Same with all the In Your House PPV's 

Ive noticed alot of the DVD's from that era, even something like Vengeance 2002 starts at over $100 on USA ebay :|


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About to watch BROCK Vs Giant Bernard :mark: :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Judgment Day '02 is like the worst in bids. It's been over $100 for years. I'll never own it.

2002 in general is the weird year for prices. So outlandish. King of the Ring, Vengeance, Royal Rumble unedited, No Way Out. All elusive so their outrageously priced. I want to own em, but I'll pass spending 8 full paychecks to own some PPVs that aren't worth it. b/c NO PPV is worth that much money.

Ironically SummerSlam - Armageddon 2002 aren't expensive. And much more common. I don't know why. Can't complain, it means I get to own what are just about the strongest events of the year in SummerSlam _(def #1)_ & Survivor Series.

EDIT ~ HOLY SHIT. Brock vs Bernard. K, forget what I said about Brock's Japan tour. It sounds a lot better. Perhaps I was only remembering his crapfest vs Angle over there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Judgment Day '02 is like the worst in bids. It's been over $100 for years. I'll never own it.
> 
> 2002 in general is the weird year for prices. So outlandish. King of the Ring, Vengeance, Royal Rumble unedited, No Way Out. All elusive so their outrageously priced. I want to own em, but I'll pass spending 8 full paychecks to own some PPVs that aren't worth it. b/c NO PPV is worth that much money.
> 
> ...


Teah mate, i too get fustrated about some of the DVD prices, esp the ones that are now out of production, i can see alot of those Tagged Classics going for a shitload too soon enough,

I saw JD'02 on wwedvdnews the other day, think the listing was around $150 lol :|


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

King of the Ring isn't bad really, got that one at a Wal Mart for 7 dollars a few years back :lol.

The "big two" so to speak when it comes to availability and pricing would be both Vengeance & Judgment Day 2002 in North America, the reasoning behind this being that they were transitioning between WWF & WWE when it came to licensing until the WWF essentially got a motion passed that the WWE no longer could use the World Wrestling Federation logo or name; this was featured heavily on both the Vengeance & JD DVDs, but unlike the previous WWF DVDs such as Backlash & No Way Out, there were only a limited number of copies printed.

I have a list of DVDs I have left to buy to complete my collection (I have APPROX like 217 WWE DVDs with like 93 left to purchase?) & when it gets to those DVDs I'm just going to get a region free DVD player and get them for cheaper in the UK. I'm not some WWE DVD NAZI who needs to have every single variant of every single DVD, I just want to own as much of the video library to compose my own video library in perfect quality.

Just watched a match of his against Akebono too, Brock's selling of a back injury and not being able to pull off the F-5 is excellent, would probably go ahead and throw three and a quarter at it... Yeah it was that good. Brock works the best against big men.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> EDIT ~ HOLY SHIT. Brock vs Bernard. K, forget what I said about Brock's Japan tour. It sounds a lot better. Perhaps I was only remembering *his crapfest vs Angle* over there.


See!? Why does everyone hate that match...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm going to watch it in a few hours, is it really THAT bad?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Finlay-Mike Knox is pretty violent. Still a rather good installment in their series. Knox reminds me of Festus for some reason.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I'm going to watch it in a few hours, is it really THAT bad?


Not at all. I don't understand it. Just do yourself a favor and don't go into it thinking it's a gonna be a shitty match, then I guarantee you'll hate it like everyone else. There's nothing wrong with it dammit!


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> King of the Ring isn't bad really, got that one at a Wal Mart for 7 dollars a few years back :lol.
> 
> The "big two" so to speak when it comes to availability and pricing would be both Vengeance & Judgment Day 2002 in North America, the reasoning behind this being that they were transitioning between WWF & WWE when it came to licensing until the WWF essentially got a motion passed that the WWE no longer could use the World Wrestling Federation logo or name; this was featured heavily on both the Vengeance & JD DVDs, but unlike the previous WWF DVDs such as Backlash & No Way Out, there were only a limited number of copies printed.
> 
> ...


The other big reason for JD & Vengeance being so rare is that they were never sold in shops in the US only on WWEShop. I stuck with the UK versions for them as there's no way I'm paying that much for a PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> See!? Why does everyone hate that match...


Being the modernized equivalent of their matches in lieu of how Kurt Angle works from 2005 - on.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's a shame in that unless you have a Taker, an Austin or a Mysterio there, Angle will NEVER actually tell a good story and psychology.

Yet there are guys like this who'll still take his shit:





Youtubers are stupid.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> Well, most of my responses to what you've posted would be what I've already said in this little debate, but since you brought it up, what was the story they were going for? I didn't see any great storytelling or anything of that sort, nor Heyman doing anything special or Trips' bumping being anything out of the ordinary, but I suppose those last two are subjective. What story was I supposed to get out from the match?


I thought Cody's review captured the match perfectly.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> I thought Cody's review captured the match perfectly.


Which member is Cody again? (Don't have all names down yet)

Edit: Funnyfaces1 gave me the name. Looked through Obsfucation's posts and found the review (was kind of a pain and almost gave up, lol). Only thing I can say in response to the review that I haven't said is I think he looked deeper into the match and the relationship between Paul and Brock to a point where it's going a bit far with it. I mean, the review helped me better understand the viewpoint from where those who liked it and found the storytelling phenomenal are coming from, but it still was negated by a lot of things that just didn't make sense with how the story had played out prior to that, and my thoughts on how Brock should be booked. Plus the match itself still had it's technical problems, but I won't go back into that and repeat myself more than I feel I have, plus everyone seems to have made up their mind on the match by this point of whether they love or hate it, so I'll just leave this at that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just threw in Unforgiven '05. Don't think I've seen this show since it happened live but I own the DVD. :side:

Flair/Carlito has been fun so far.

Edit: Flair putting dat IC title over.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> Just threw in Unforgiven '05. Don't think I've seen this show since it happened live but I own the DVD. :side:
> 
> Flair/Carlito has been fun so far.
> 
> Edit: Flair putting dat IC title over.


Curious what you think of HBK/Masters when you get to it. I thought that was a pretty good match, arguably Masters best match at the time. Haven't seen it in a while though.

Oh and Edge/Hardy cage match. :mark:


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Jesus Christ this King Of The Ring 2002 PPV sucks.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...ker-t-goldust-and-the-rock_sport#.UZ0YRrXVDoI

best thing on the show.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Brye said:


> Just threw in Unforgiven '05. Don't think I've seen this show since it happened live but I own the DVD. :side:
> 
> Flair/Carlito has been fun so far.
> 
> Edit: Flair putting dat IC title over.


Flair put the IC title over well there but it then became an afterthought during his feud with HHH, which was a shame. Even though Flair winning it made sense for the feud - "Flair revelled in his new found mediocrity", it probably would have been better if HHH had cost him the title before their cage match and they could have just had a grudge match. Even the commentators put it down during that time.

Unforgiven 05 is a pretty good show, obviously Hardy/Edge in the cage being the absolute standout.



Christian Louboutin said:


> Jesus Christ this King Of The Ring 2002 PPV sucks.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...ker-t-goldust-and-the-rock_sport#.UZ0YRrXVDoI
> 
> best thing on the show.


I find the RVD/Jericho KOTR match to be decent, but yeah everything else sucks hard.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Where do you guys get your older DVDs from? Online or the cheap bins at places like Walmart?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ok guys, starting the blog today with an Intro to my VADER project, should be up by the end of the night, considering I am now officially a high school senior 

Trying to decide which route I want to go, I am leaning towards just random "indy" appearances and such, or perhaps just dive right in to his New Japan and All Japan stuff, hopefully I decide before I post it tonight, I'll link it when I post it


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ That reminds me to watch Vader vs. Jay Bradley from Resistance Pro, which I've been meaning to watch since it happened. Any Vader is good Vader, even 2012 Vader.

:vader

I always thought about setting up a blog, but then I realised I'd abandon it. Foresight ftw?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> ^ That reminds me to watch Vader vs. Jay Bradley from Resistance Pro, which I've been meaning to watch since it happened. Any Vader is good Vader, even 2012 Vader.
> 
> :vader
> 
> I always thought about setting up a blog, but then I realised I'd abandon it. Foresight ftw?


I'll mention in the intro why I am setting up a blog, and I hope a few of you follow it/keep up with it, god I am pumped for this project, like you don't even know.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

this might sound weird but... do we know anything about Triple H growing up or family? i mean he has a brother who plays in a band, but thats all ive seen in 15+ years

every wrestler has a story, I find it weird i know so little about Triple H's origins, even though he married into the company and hes on TV all the time


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, HHH's backstory, while I've never personally cared to find out, doesn't seem to be put out there. I assume this upcoming DVD will change that and we'll hear more about growing up. I do remember hearing somewhere that getting into the business, HHH's parents were supportive of his decision.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Quick question, does WordPress allow like unlimited entries for free, or is it like "you've written too much bye"? I would like to know so I can decide between that and Tumblr


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Unforgiven 2005

Carlito/Flair - ***1/4
Divas tag - DUD
Big Show/Snitsky - **1/2
Benjamin/White - **1/4
Hardy/Edge - ****1/4
Cade & Murdoch/Hurricane & Rosey - *1/2
HBK/Masters - ***3/4
Cena/Angle - **3/4

Really solid show all around. Couldn't really get invested into the main event but I really liked Masters/HBK. Edge/Hardy was just as great as I remembered it being. Plus the debut of TREVOR MURDOCH~!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

question for all you guys do you write down all your ratings for matches or do you just remember them on top of your head. If you write them down, do you do them on word,notebook ?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> Unforgiven 2005
> 
> Carlito/Flair - ***1/4
> Divas tag - DUD
> ...


(Y)

Cade and Murdoch were awesome, my favorite team back then. 






Miss those guys. RIP Lance Cade.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> question for all you guys do you write down all your ratings for matches or do you just remember them on top of your head. If you write them down, do you do them on word,notebook ?


I have all of my ***+ ratings in a notepad doc and arranged so i can find what I'm looking for easily. Lots of ratings I tend to remember though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Was so excited for Cade's push in late '08. RIP. 

Was also hoping that Murdoch was going to come back after he had that tryout.

Edit: I don't keep track of my ratings, however, I probably should.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't keep track of ratings because I can memorize most of mine. 



Brye said:


> Was so excited for Cade's push in late '08. RIP.
> 
> Was also hoping that Murdoch was going to come back after he had that tryout.
> 
> Edit: I don't keep track of my ratings, however, I probably should.


Yeah, same. I was hoping he would go somewhere when they put him with Jericho, sadly not much came of it. Murdoch went nowhere after they broke up as a team, just another victim of WWE breaking up tag teams.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Hey guys, I need some recoms regarding WWE Documentaries. The only one's I've seen so far are from Rocky, Lesnar, Austin and Punk. I'm watching The Rise & Fall of ECW later on. Thanks


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

SonoShion said:


> Hey guys, I need some recoms regarding WWE Documentaries. The only one's I've seen so far are from Rocky, Lesnar, Austin and Punk. I'm watching The Rise & Fall of ECW later on. Thanks


Edge's documentary is great:






Also Mick Foley's recent documentary is very good too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Survivor Series 2006:*

_Team Legends (Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Sgt. Slaughter, Ron Simmons) vs Spirit Squad - ★¼_
- Pointless feud and the match is shit. A complete waste of time even though it was cool to see Arn Anderson, Ron "DAMN" Simmons and Ric Flair single-handedly eliminated the three remaining opponents.

_Chris Benoit vs Chavo Guerrero - ★★★¼_
- A decent match. Some good back and forth with the two despite the shitty feud. Benoit deserved better but for what he's stuck with, the match is good enough. Could have done with a couple of minutes added, though.

_Mickie James vs Lita - ★★½_
- Another decent match which also happens to be Lita's retirement match. The action is enjoyable and they've really stepped it up from that horrible Cyber Sunday bout. Crowd is going crazy on Lita with the chants and she seems genuinely pissed. They also get as much time as the match prior which gives them enough to make it enjoyable. Cryme Tyme's "Ho Sale" afterwards completely steals the spotlight, though. Lita might have deserved a better send-off but CT are hilarious.

_Team DX (Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy, Matt Hardy, CM Punk) vs Team Rated RKO (Randy Orton, Edge, Mike Knox, Gregory Helms, Johnny Nitro) - 0_
- How apt that there's "WHHHO BOOKED THIS?" sign near the front row as this is a complete joke. DX seem like they just love squashing whoever they go up against. This was a complete annihilation of the heels as if they're the freaking Spirit Squad. Also Orton's Survivor Series streak is pissed away because of DX and their stupid habit of treating everything like a joke with their shitty shtick. On a more interesting note, Orton is noticeably getting fatter every passing week around this period.

_Mr. Kennedy vs Undertaker - ★★★¼_
- Another good match between these two and on par with their No Mercy bout. With the First Blood stipulation, this one goes around the ring and not just inside. MVP gets a bit too involved and is even responsible for the finish plus it's a bit too short but I did enjoy the action otherwise. And even though Kennedy wins, he gets completely murdered by Undertaker post-match and that's one of the most wicked chair shots I've ever seen. So bad that the chair was stuck around Kennedy's head.

_Team Cena (John Cena, Bobby Lashley, Rob Van Dam, Kane, Sabu) vs Team Big Show (Big Show, Test, Finlay, Umaga, MVP) - ★★¼_
- This is like a cheap knock-off of the Team Lesnar vs Team Angle match from 2003 which coincidentally begun and ended the same way only with a couple of people switched. Very fast paced with the eliminations so it's not as good as it could've been. Umaga gets DQed (like Bob Holly in 2003) in the beginning then it ends with the good guys having two survivors eliminating the Big Show. This time Lashley has Benoit's spot for Cena's fellow survivor. Too bad this is barely half as good as that one was. Not much is memorable either which is why the memory is blurry for most. I did notice two highlights, though. RVD gives Finlay a stiff, nasty kick on the mouth while doing the Windmill move and Test hits RVD with one bad boot for the elimination shortly after.

_Batista vs Booker T - ½★_
- Damn @ that interview with Batista. They have completely turned him into an emo and it's hilarious. But then the match happens and this turns out to be quite a painful main event. Slow paced and boring is the best way to define it. Batista finally wins back the World Title but at what cost! This is even worse than their SummerSlam match because that one had at least some comical parts that made me laugh but this one just had me counting the seconds until the end.

*Overall:* ★★ out of ★★★★★ (What a horrible PPV following another awful one just earlier in the month. Slightly better than Cyber Sunday but that doesn't really say anything. Some awful booking decisions and not a single match goes over 13 minutes. Some stuff that had potential like the DX/Rated RKO elimination match are thrown away in favor of stupid shit. When the best matches are just slightly above average and only good, that doesn't bode well. Then there are two matches that flat out suck balls and should be erased from existence. Funny thing is, this might be topped as the week after, December to Dismember takes place and I'm prepared for what might be more torture. Plus, did any heels win here? Kennedy is the only one I can think of and he got destroyed post-match. On the flip side, Spirit Squad laid out Flair after losing but nobody remembers that.)


----------



## bruceledge (May 22, 2013)

Anyone see Paige's documentary of her making it into WWE?
It's focuses more on how it is viewed by those that don't ever get the chance to make it big.
The Wrestlers: Fighting with My Family


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

> *John Cena vs. The Great Khali - WWE Judgement Day 2007​*I still have the exact memory of Khali debuting in the WWE and destroying The Undertaker in shitty offense and fashion. His doings don't look brutal at all, It's all slouchy and in the nature of slump. Coming into 2007, I would say he's improved a little within the aspect of in-ring performing and what not. However, Cena in this match specifically, made Khali look like A Shark, A hunter, A threat. His bumping for this sack of no-talent is comparable to those of Michale's and Orton's. They were more of impact bumps, then resulting bumps. On that topic, I hate this generalization that Cena can't or doesn't know how to sell, He actually does but it's more of a one time thing than an on going effect. He does awesome one hit wonder falls, but isn't as well versed in selling an injury throughout a certain match, ala Shawn-Cena WM23. Back to the match, Cena also times the period in which he launches the typical comeback to absolute perfection, The crowd surprisingly went ballistic when he caught Khali's hand going for the chop within the finishing segments. The ending is really fucking great, Khali injured (kayfabe) his knees earlier with a steel steps bump, So it was buyable that the match ended in submission and by the STFU. Wrapping it all up, It's a real strain on my mind to think of a better carry job than this, It was really all Cena, Khali was even more of an awfulness adding factor than in goodness participating. There's Jericho-Goldberg, but Berg was actually pretty good in the match with selling of the leg and such. Rude-Warrior, That was a good carry, but i would put this one above it, considering Warrior is godlike in the ring compared to Khali. Everyone who says Cena is a bad wrestler or can't make opponents look good, Please direct them into the vicinity of this match. Fantastic. ****


My review on this match, .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> question for all you guys do you write down all your ratings for matches or do you just remember them on top of your head. If you write them down, do you do them on word,notebook ?


Nah, I just try and remember them as I go and if I don't recall something, I just search for an old review on here.

Oh the days when this forum didn't have a search function...


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ok guys, I have posted the first post for my Vader Project, some of you guys mind reading and giving me some constrictive criticism? http://obrtanner.wordpress.com/ Hope you guys enjoy it


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tanner1495 said:


> Ok guys, I have posted the first post for my Vader Project, some of you guys mind reading and giving me some constrictive criticism? http://obrtanner.wordpress.com/ Hope you guys enjoy it





> Another thing, if you are looking for huge reviews that are eleven paragraphs long, I *would* come here. Most matches in review length will be about a paragraph with few exceptions.


I'm assuming you mistyped 'wouldn't'. 


I had no idea you had planned to watch every Vader match you could find. That's awesome. I have some Vader shit that isn't online I could upload sometime (I say this a lot and don't get it done for months, but I DO DO IT). Bunch of Sting matches on fancam and I think I may have the el Gigante match from New Japan that is supposedly the world's first good el Gigante/Giant Gonzales singles match.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm assuming you mistyped 'wouldn't'.
> 
> 
> I had no idea you had planned to watch every Vader match you could find. That's awesome. I have some Vader shit that isn't online I could upload sometime (I say this a lot and don't get it done for months, but I DO DO IT). Bunch of Sting matches on fancam and I think I may have the el Gigante match from New Japan that is supposedly the world's first good el Gigante/Giant Gonzales singles match.


Haha, it's been changed lol, I even read it over before posting, so that was interesting. And yes, EVERY SINGLE FUCKING VADER MATCH. If you could get some of that online soon, that'd be sweet!


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

The kennedy vs Taker matches are so strange

its like they werent wrestling, or fighting, or even really feuding. it kinda felt just like two guys were in the ring together a bunch of times, and there were moves, and it was very awkward between the two but even when awkward, it was somehow good

it just felt so absurdly unconventional. genuinely bizarre series of matches for me. all i remember is two guys hitting each other, short matches, MVP being on fire, moving all over the place


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

some HIAC ratingz

Taker/edge ss08 ****1/4
Foley/HHH nwo 00 ****1/2
hhh/Batista v 05 ***3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> some HIAC ratingz
> 
> Taker/edge ss08 ****1/4
> Foley/HHH nwo 00 ****1/2
> *hhh/Batista v 05 ***3/4*




I think you're missing a star on that...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha I know what everybody is thinking. I tried to like this match like everyone else but I just couldn't. Yes it was brutal but that was pretty match it to me and it seemed to drag a lot to me. The foley one is much better


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/edge ss08 ****1/2
Foley/HHH nwo 00 ****
hhh/Batista v 05 ****1/2

Someone who doesn't find Batista/HHH Vengeance ****+? Interesting...


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just finished Summerslam 05, man this was a fun show! It's too god damn bad they had to waste Kurt angles talent on that piece of Shit Eugene. 

Benoit/Jordan. Dud. 

Matt/Edge. **1/2

Rey/Eddie ladder match. ***3/4

Eugene/Angle. **1/2. Loved hearing Eugene getting booed outta the arena. 

Taker/Orton. **** awesome seeing Orton finally going over taker. 

Cena/Jericho. ***3/4. Awesome atmosphere for a solid match here. Almost hit the 4 star mark. 

Batista/JBL. ***1/4. Great ending with the powerbomb on the steal steps. 

HBK/Hogan. ****. WOW do they make Hogan look like superman here. A low blow, chair shot, hbks flying elbow AND the superkick all back to back to back to back and hulkster kicks out, hulks up and buries Shawn. Absolutely hilarious how HBK sells the big boot lolll. 

Really fun show here, 7.5/10. 

Again would have been even better if they didn't waste angle on fucking Eugene. And yes I can't stand Eugene.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ill bump it up to **** just not to be disrespectful


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Batista HIAC is a top two (or three) cell match for me. Just love it.

Also, HBK's selling at Summerslam is GOAT. He carried that feud with his 1997-esque heel work.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fluze's review of Khali-Cena was great stuff, reminded me exactly why I loved the match and why I thought it deserved a spot on my Top 100 Cena matches list despite the incredible handicap it has of, y'know... Having Khali in it .

I think I might start a KingOfKings/#PaulHeymanGuy/The Beast Incarnate blog where I talk about WRASSLIN' WEED N' WEIGHTS. I thought about this feature I could do called 'Half Baked Reviews' where I get HIGHAZFUCK and watch/rate a match/show, only to watch it again while sober and compare it.. Or maybe just the HIGH part :lol.

EDIT: Trips/Batista HIAC at anything less than ***** 1/2* makes me want to blow my head off with a double barrel shotgun, but it's okay since it's my FAVORITE MATCH EVER.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Apparently CM Punk has a brief appearance in The Hangover III.

DAT CROSSOVER SUPASTAH~

Edit: Batista/HHH is awesome. Haven't seen it in ages, may want to watch it again sometime soon. But I believe it's by far Batista's greatest WWE match. Maybe my favourite HIAC match ever. ****3/4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just came across my Kane DVD, RR 2008, and JD 2007. Don't remember JD being that good, but it did have that silly "McMahon as the ECW champion", which is so bad, it's good. 

Half Baked Reviews FTW.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

RR '08 is a fun show. Kane DVD is pretty good. JD '07 is an awful show though, iirc.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

favourite part of the Hell in a cell is triple H sitting in the back post match, bleeding, beaten, Batista walks in, and he hugs him

flair then says "its evolution baby"

star. made


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

^






:mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's probably my all time favorite moment in wrestling.

& it never even aired.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Thanks for the compliment, Beast Incarnate. Cena-Khali is definitely up there in fantastic quality.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Some guy named "Rock316" something, gave me red rep for saying Taker can still hang with the young bucks and Rock can't, plus he isn't in wrestling shape. Is that common practice in here?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fluze said:


> Some guy named "Rock316" something, gave me red rep for saying Taker can still hang with the young bucks and Rock can't, plus he isn't in wrestling shape. Is that common practice in here?


:lmao

Unfortunately yes, I've heard a lot about all the Rock marks out there. That guy especially. Rock316AE or something?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea some guy named jjlegend gave me red reps also for saying ziggler finish is booked weak as hell, unfortunately this happen in the wwe section. Funny thing is the guy has not had one post since joining in april

Edit: he message me saying stop making stupid posts. Do I look like a guy that would knock Ziggler ?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

It dosen't really bother me, but it's kinda sad for members to be blinded by their idols and fail to see their time for the hanging up of boots is imminent. Will release a review on Orton-Cena BP later on today. This thread is fucking awesome. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I just checked out that IWGP Championship Match between Kurt Angle & Brock Lesnar for my BROCK LIST, and I can effectively sum up the match with a few words: TWAS OKAY. Angle pulled alot of his typical bullshit and I hated the whole damn structure of the match, however I felt that even though there were a ton of retarded things going on out there such as Kurt's 1000 Angle locks & suplexes, the match was paced pretty good and there were actually a few times that we got some good false finishes so there we go. Felt that it needed Michael Cole commentating so he could have exclaimed "WHAT A THROW BY LESNAR" Approx. 67 billion times while King gets some Pizza/Chicken/Duck/IDFK delivered to him. Hell, if you took every serious match and dubbed it over with Cole & Lawler's atrocious commentary it could make for some very cringeworty moments. Hogan is revealed as the third man of the NWO? "OH MY!" .. How about Taker tossing Foley off of the cell? "What a throw by The Undertaker" ... I always felt that HIAC I w/Taker & HBK was missing Jerry Lawler getting a pizza delivered y'know? ANYWAYS, Brock-Kurt gets like **** & a huge step down from their WWE work as far as I'm concerned, Lesnar's worst match in Japan too. Check out Brock-Akebono if you wanna see a ballin' Brock performance across the sea.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Lesnar/Angle from Japan was trash. I found it kind of funny, though, so I'd be up for another watch.


I wouldn't give HHH/Batista four stars.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

nobody cares what you think yeah1993

nope1993


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*WWE Championship "I Quit" Match - Randy Orton vs. John Cena - Breaking Point 2009​*This was anything but your typical pure-bread wrestling match. This encounter was more about spectacle and specific segments/moments. This match shouted "assembled before hand", It's clear that it was a precise plan by both Cena & Orton, That's not discrediting the performance of either man, They were both top notch in the field of representation and execution. The psychology and storytelling were all defined through awesome events, The basic premise of story was Cena trying to gain an ounce of perseverance against the creative, yet maniac-esqiue Orton. It's all well and loved, is the slamming of a kendle stick into Cena's ribs, So i won't get into that. However, I adored Orton hanging the keys around his neck to somehow tease and taunt John into oblivion. The finish is controversial, but IMO it signaled a final tug and war sequence to uncover who truly wanted the title. Orton wasn't willing to die for it, as any heel wouldn't, but Cena was filled with adrenaline by the constant beat downs and saw the title as a release from this torture, eventually he actually fought through the odds and won the title. The ending if anything, is understandable. The only element this match deserved but didn't get, was the visual of a Cena crimson mask. Although, We did receive a healthy dose of bruised up ribs, So i'll put my bloodlust aside, for now . ****1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't Give it **** I'm just being generous, outside of some matches such as hbk 2003, hardy no mercy , taker mania 27-28,Brock summerslam not that big on hatich work post 2000
When i say matches i I mean ****1/2 or better besides the ones mentioned above


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Your daily dose of BROCK murdering someone.

ONE MILLION STARS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JOAL.com said:


> nobody cares what you think yeah1993
> 
> nope1993


aw hell naw. 


GOLDBERG > YOU


JOAL.net (.net is for weenies, there for you being JOAL.net is the equivalent of me being nope1993)


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

JOAL.com said:


> nope1993


#BURN
#SHOTSFIRED


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Just finished Summerslam 05, man this was a fun show! It's too god damn bad they had to waste Kurt angles talent on that piece of Shit Eugene.
> 
> Benoit/Jordan. Dud.
> 
> ...


I do enjoy SS '05 alot tbh:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan "buries" Shawn Michaels. Shawn could never recover could he?

Term becomes overused online yet again.

Hardy vs Edge steals the show at SummerSlam '05 for me. And that's with the awesome, awesome Taker vs Orton & Cena vs Jericho matches following.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'm probably in the minority of this opinion, but Jericho-Shawn UF is above Jericho-Shawn Ladder. Couldn't get into the ladder match at all, felt it was generic and too typical.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not the biggest mark for the Unforgiven match. I like it to the point of being "good", but nothing groundbreaking. Felt it missed the mark they should have went. GAB blows it away. Starting to think that's my favorite match of theirs now from '08. Even surpassing the Ladder match.

Never seen Judgment Day yet.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starting to notice A LOT of these Superstars in 2011 were one match shows. A far cry from the work 2010 produced. Drew McIntyre has managed to rule most - getting opponents like Mason Ryan needs to end though. That's doing nothing.

Oh and 2011 should thank Danielson too. Every match he had on Superstars owned. Better than those _(mostly)_ crappy Kidd vs Barreta matches which actually got hype.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

McIntyre is awesome, He has the overall package to be a top level champion. I still remember a Kane-McIntyre house show match in 2010, He played the babyface side to Cena levels, I was gobsmacked, tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh damn he played the babyface role? WWE teased that with a match of his on Superstars one year _(I THINK last year...)_ and it was nothing more than a teased run b/c it never mushroomed. I think he's stronger suited as a heel with his fabulous in work game/nuances. If his performances shine as a face, I won't be 100% against it. Not to mention if it can revitalize his career.


----------



## Oh you didn't know (Feb 17, 2011)

Ive been watching some WWE on Netflix. The Best of King of the Ring is ok, some crap. HHH accidentally says hes BI haha. Some legends PPV which is crap. Watched some of the Rock/Cena stuff. Wish more old school 80's stuff was availible on Netflix or anywhere besides crappy youtube vids. Is thier anything Wrestling wise thats really good on Netflix ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's usually just all of the WWE DVD sets that are put on Netflix streaming. 

Personal reflection states giving the Best of Nitro set a watch. I'm a big WCW guy though.


----------



## Oh you didn't know (Feb 17, 2011)

I started watching WCW in the mid 90's, WWF mid 80's, I would really like to see older 80's wrestling. Like WWF Main Event, War Games,NWA Crockett, Smokey Mountain, USWA, ect.. I own the Flair DVD,Horsemen DVD, Starcade, 1st 5 Mania's, Bret Hart,Rise and Fall of WCCW/ Von Erichs, and Road Warriors. I will check that out thanks


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not 80's of course, but it should be something to suffice as it isn't exactly "modern" years.

ummm. If the Saturday Night's Main Event set is on there then I think that can be right up your alley. Unsure if it is.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I despise 411Mania's reviews, They're too much about overviewing the match than actually expressing their opinions on it.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Fluze said:


> Some guy named "Rock316" something, gave me red rep for saying Taker can still hang with the young bucks and Rock can't, plus he isn't in wrestling shape. Is that common practice in here?


Its common for any hardcore fan tbh. People just get uptight over the "Rock marks" around here. You'll find die hard Austin fans doing the same, and die hard Punk fans as well. Hell, we have had a recent growth in Taker marks. No need to take it serious. Just move along. It is what it is, die hard fans putting over their guy to the max.

The worst part is when people generalize based off of a die hard fan or when people say stupid shit like ____ marks are making me hate (the superstar) though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

the Rock marks are easily the worst of them. It's not even close. The semi-short-lived GOAT thread showed a massive outbreak of annoying and bias Dwayne-polyp-feeders that I had no idea existed and do not wish to come across again.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Eddie is one of the GOATS. Don't care if you don't agree - I love the guy and thats all that matters to me.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> the Rock marks are easily the worst of them. It's not even close. The semi-short-lived GOAT thread showed a massive outbreak of annoying and bias Dwayne-polyp-feeders that I had no idea existed and do not wish to come across again.


Dont really see it like that.

It was like three terrible ones in there saying silly shit and using the same argument. They were just very vocal. Its not like it was a mass amount of them. All of them I think are banned now anyway. Ive seen marks from other fans doing and saying things just the same on this very forum. There cant really be a worst mark because every superstar will have at least one that says off the wall stuff. But like I said, on this forum people let The Rock marks really get to them. (Not saying you btw)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Any of those mark tonks are the worst. It's just the Rock ones that act out to a far more noticeable degree that puts them really over the top.

You can't say anything bad about him without getting backlash. Yes, that's moronic. Talk about the ones whom are much too sensitive. Who cares what anyone else thinks about a wrestler you enjoy.

Ok, now a new topic b/c this stuff sucks and will be a plague. Eddie Guerrero works.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

EDDIE

miss him


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Not really.
> 
> It was like three terrible ones in there saying silly shit. All of them I think are banned now anyway. Ive seen marks from other fans doing and saying things just the same on this very forum. There cant really be a worst mark because every superstar will have at least one that says off the wall stuff. But like I said, on this forum people let The Rock marks really get to them.


There were wayyyyy more than three, and they were all the most bias and full o' SHEEIT people ever. They were actually arguing that Vince was trying to force the Rock out of the WWE, so then Rock would fail in Hollywood and come crawling back. That's nowhere near the worst of what as said in there. And BC Hunk is the worst poster to ever join this forum. Or, probably, any forum ever. I still remember his post on who was better out of Rock or Austin and he wrote these big paragraphs about this and that and Rock being better at every. Single. Thing. My God, the worst post I'll hopefully ever have to read. But yeah, most of them are either banned or don't post here any more because the GOAT thread is gone. I just wished I saved my post about how HHH is the greatest of all time. :sad:

I totally agree that the annoying fans shouldn't hamper how much someone likes a wrestler. I think it can, and it some cases it can't be helped, but it probably should be. I mean I'm kind of known for 'bashing' Chris Jericho, but really all I'm trying to say is he's overrated. I don't dislike him and I never will, but there's a lot of fans who make him out be be a GOATC or something. The opposite is true, as well. I don't LOVE Chavo Guerrero, but I like him and try to sing his praises and sort defend him because most people here seem to consider him a sack of shit. It looks like I'm putting down Jericho while putting over Chavo, but I prefer Jericho to Chavo.


EDIT - Yeah fuck me let's talk about Eddie. THE BIG SHOW MATCH IS FIVE STARS.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

True. 

But on to Eddie, he was a good dude. One of my favorites. Funny story is that I met him once. (Benoit too) in one of the oddest places. A gas station in Charlotte. Not making this up. They were coming back from a RAW in Greensboro (7/29/02) and I guess that was the pit stop. Biggest thing I remember was how short they were but fucking huge at the same time :lmao. Have both of their autographs and still have it to this day. Pretty eerie looking at it now that they are both gone. But that was such a great night.

Imagine watching them on TV and running into them a few hrs later. Crazy stuff at the time. I think that RAW had Flair vs Rock which I dont even remember the quality of. Its been too long. Ill have to catch that if its worth it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Eddie's worst match?
Eddies best match?
Eddies best fued?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

What do you guys think of 411Mania's reviews?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Starting the VADER~ project today, HYPE


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

At the risk of people saying "Sting was fucking shit", for people who at least had time for the fucker, essential Sting matches?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My favourite Stong's match is the Falls Count Anywhere one against Foley. The best WCW match, imo just fantastic. I also like his match with Regal from TGAB 96, oh and his match with Flair from Clash of the Champions. Also, surfing the net I have found this beauty against DDP 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl9443_sting-vs-diamond-dallas-page_sport


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

watch the 4/12/99 Flair and 9/20/99 Benoit matches. They both proof that Sting was still good by 1999 and the DDP match wasn't a one off miracle.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I also remmeber that he had a good match at MAyhem 99 against Bret Hart, I hope I'm not wrong. I liked that match too when I have watched it


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 17 *

This match is probably the best example of over-exaggeration over time. When people are asked "What's your favorite/greatest wrestling match ever", This match is up there as far as frequent answers go. However, If we're comparing it to other matches of equal value, It doesn't hold up. The majority however allow nostalgia to effect their personal rating of it, That's understandable though, You think back and you get caught up in the mindset. That being said, This match is still amazing but a big block below perfect. The close 3 counts were spammed to death, as was the obvious punch and kickings. Also, No. I'm not gonna put it on a pedestal because they're attempting to define the monumental nature of the Attitude Era, cause even taken that into account. The absurdity is still there. But's that just picking holes now, This match is GREAT, but not the GREATEST, not even the best in their series, WM19 is above it. Now back to the goodness, The ending executed couldn't of been more worthy to sendoff the AE, Austin ramming Rock with a chair, holding onto his words of "I Will Do Anything" with the masterful, heel boss grinning in a sadistic expression as it goes on. Defines the AE, by far. The ending is *****, The entire match is ****1/4.​


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

zep81 said:


> At the risk of people saying "Sting was fucking shit", for people who at least had time for the fucker, essential Sting matches?


I believe he had 5 ppv matches v Vader and all are between ***1/2 - ****1/2. Check them out ASAP.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

there's this list from two days ago.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Best Daniel Bryan matches.

1) v Cm Punk, Over the Limit 2012 - ****3/4
2) v The Shield, TLC 2012 ****1/2
3) v Sheamus, Extreme Rules 2012 - ****1/4
4) v Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010 - ****1/4
5) v The Shield, Raw just gone - ****
6) v Del Rio, Smackdown, August 2011 - ***3/4
7) v Cm Punk, Raw, Jan 2012 - ***3/4
8) v Cm Punk, MITB 12 - ***1/2
9) v The Miz, Night of Champions 11 - ***1/2
10) v The Shield, In London - ***1/2
11) v Wade Barrett, Summerslam 11 - ***1/2
12) v CM Punk v Kane, No Way out 12 - ***1/2


----------



## AussieBoy97 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: Worst WWE DVD's*

The best of Intercontinental Champiuonship, this dvd would have o be one of the worst. Has around 4 matches and goes for about an hour only.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Fluze said:


> *The Rock vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Wrestlemania 17 *
> 
> This match is probably the best example of over-exaggeration over time. When people are asked "What's your favorite/greatest wrestling match ever", This match is up there as far as frequent answers go. However, If we're comparing it to other matches of equal value, It doesn't hold up. The majority however allow nostalgia to effect their personal rating of it, That's understandable though, You think back and you get caught up in the mindset. That being said, This match is still amazing but a big block below perfect. The close 3 counts were spammed to death, as was the obvious punch and kickings. Also, No. I'm not gonna put it on a pedestal because they're attempting to define the monumental nature of the Attitude Era, cause even taken that into account. The absurdity is still there. But's that just picking holes now, This match is GREAT, but not the GREATEST, not even the best in their series, WM19 is above it. Now back to the goodness, The ending executed couldn't of been more worthy to sendoff the AE, Austin ramming Rock with a chair, holding onto his words of "I Will Do Anything" with the masterful, heel boss grinning in a sadistic expression as it goes on. Defines the AE, by far. The ending is *****, The entire match is ****1/4.​


Good to see someone rating 19 over 17. I feel the same. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Their WM19 match is near perfect (****3/4). Ranking and Starz for all the Rock-Austin PPV bouts?

1. WM19 (****3/4)
2. WM17 (****1/4)
3. Backlash 1999 (***3/4)
4. IYH 19: D-Generation X (***)
5. WM15 (**3/4)
6. Rebellion (**1/4)


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

LOL 19 is Austin/Rocks worst WM match tbh. We all Knew the rock would win and at that point the fued/match got a little stale. They're WM 19 match worked at a pretty slow pace IMO. Was it bad? Hell no, but I'm a fan if they're other 2 WM matches. 

WM 15: ****

WM 17: ****3/4

WM 19: ***3/4


Talk about how wwe Really missed on an opportunity? What WM 19 could have had:


Hogan/Austin
HBK/Rock
Jericho/Taker


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

:lol at WM15 being given a ****1/4 rating. Typical AE overbooked garbage.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> there's this list from two days ago.


I do remember writing that believe it or not  I was just asking for any more suggestions in here


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

EDIT: Extreme Rules cover looks pretty badass. Also looks and feels like a UFC cover:
http://www.wwedvdnews.com/wwe-extreme-rules-2013-dvd-cover/42175/

Rock/Austin 17 >>>>> 19 for me. 19 is just a bunch of finishers for like 10 minutes. 



The Beast Incarnate said:


> So I just checked out that IWGP Championship Match between Kurt Angle & Brock Lesnar for my BROCK LIST, and I can effectively sum up the match with a few words: TWAS OKAY. Angle pulled alot of his typical bullshit and I hated the whole damn structure of the match, however I felt that even though there were a ton of retarded things going on out there such as Kurt's 1000 Angle locks & suplexes, the match was paced pretty good and there were actually a few times that we got some good false finishes so there we go. Felt that it needed Michael Cole commentating so he could have exclaimed "WHAT A THROW BY LESNAR" Approx. 67 billion times while King gets some Pizza/Chicken/Duck/IDFK delivered to him. Hell, if you took every serious match and dubbed it over with Cole & Lawler's atrocious commentary it could make for some very cringeworty moments. Hogan is revealed as the third man of the NWO? "OH MY!" .. How about Taker tossing Foley off of the cell? "What a throw by The Undertaker" ... I always felt that HIAC I w/Taker & HBK was missing Jerry Lawler getting a pizza delivered y'know? ANYWAYS, Brock-Kurt gets like **** & a huge step down from their WWE work as far as I'm concerned, Lesnar's worst match in Japan too. Check out Brock-Akebono if you wanna see a ballin' Brock performance across the sea.





Yeah1993 said:


> Lesnar/Angle from Japan was trash. I found it kind of funny, though, so I'd be up for another watch.


Ughhhh, well apparently I need to rewatch this cause I definitely liked it...



Fluze said:


> I'm probably in the minority of this opinion, but Jericho-Shawn UF is above Jericho-Shawn Ladder. Couldn't get into the ladder match at all, felt it was generic and too typical.


JUDGMENT DAY



Fluze said:


> What do you guys think of 411Mania's reviews?


I just use them as another place to find ratings, never read the play by play for the match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of EDDIE, I'm about to watch the crowning moment of his career & the last match in my BROCK project in Eddie Vs Brock @ No Way Out 2004. Needless to say that even though I haven't seen it in quite a while so it definitely needed a rewatch anyways, last time I checked I had it in my top 20 WWF/WWE matches ever so it's definitely of great interest.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Speaking of EDDIE, I'm about to watch the crowning moment of his career & the last match in my BROCK project in Eddie Vs Brock @ No Way Out 2004. Needless to say that even though I haven't seen it in quite a while so it definitely needed a rewatch anyways, last time I checked I had it in my top 20 WWF/WWE matches ever so it's definitely of great interest.


Last match.........................erm Goldie


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I do remember writing that believe it or not  I was just asking for any more suggestions in here


i didn't know you wrote it ldo


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I already had it watched .

Ran through all the TV matches first, then half of the PPV matches, then JAPAN, then the latter half of his PPV matches. Watched the Goldberg match about a month ago and honestly, I don't think I need to ever watch that match again as I get the point .

Jesus... Brock looks like he wants to MURDER EDDIE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> i didn't know you wrote it ldo


NP :0


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jbardo said:


> Best Daniel Bryan matches.
> 
> 1) v Cm Punk, Over the Limit 2012 - ****3/4
> 2) v The Shield, TLC 2012 ****1/2
> ...


Ooo, a list I haven't done yet:

Top 10 Bryan (WWE) Matches:

(****1/2)
1) vs. CM Punk Over the Limit 2012
2) w/ Kane and Ryback vs. The Shield TLC 2012
(****1/4)
3) w/ Kane and Kofi vs. The Shield Raw 5/20/2013
(****)
4) w/ Taker and Kane vs. The Shield Raw 4/22/2013
5) vs. Sheamus ER 2012
6) vs. Ziggler BR 2010
(***3/4)
7) vs. Barrett SS 2011
8) w/ Team WWE vs. Nexus SS 2010
9) vs. Barrett vs. Santino vs. Big Show vs. Khali vs. Rhodes EC 2012
(***1/2)
10) vs. Jericho vs. Orton vs. Swagger vs. Henry vs. Kane EC 2013


That's a very impressive list for someone who's only been in WWE for 3 years... and if you notice, all his top 5 matches happened within the last year (or in the Sheamus match case, close to within the last year). He's been on a roll recently and been given the ball to go out there and deliver. Two classics (the first tow matches), the tag this past week being damn near one, and then a few **** matches to boot with several different opponents. He does have a ton more ***1/2 matches.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Sheamus match is his best in WWE imo.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The joys of being off work, just finished the ppv of the year in 2005..... VENGEANCE! 

Carlito/Benjamin IC title. ***1/2 Very fun, entertaining, solid opener here. Carlito cheats as he holds the tights of Benjamin to retain the championship. 

Kane/Edge. ***1/4. Another fun match, snitsky tries interfering here. Kane tosses Edge to the mat. Snitsky off the top and Kane goes for a chokeslam and dodged a shot from Edge to Snitsky with the MITB case. Kane wins. 

HBK/Angle. ****1/4. Definitely not as good as they're WM classic that I have at *****	, but that is pretty damn hard to top. HBK lacked selling in this match IMO. Still a good back and forth battle tho. 

Cena/Christian/Edge. ***3/4. I've never personally cared for triple threat matches. But this was one of the better ones. Cena handles Christian until Tomko runs out and attacs Cena, Jericho has Cena in the walls, not once but twice.Cena in pain wont tap. Cena picks up Jericho and knocks him into Christian. Thus hitting the fu on Jericho for the 3 count. Huge pop for cena. 

HHH/Batista HIAC. ****1/2. Top 3 HIAC match for me. 2 nd best MOTY for me behind angle/hbk from WM 21. All out brawl/slugfest here, both guys shed plenty of blood. Great ending as well, HHH has the hammer in his hand getting all of us to think he was gonna nail Batista but Batista drops HHH for the Batista bomb before HHH pulls the trigger. By far Batistas best match in his career IMO. 


This ppv was flat out amazing. Show of the year. 9/10. This show just screamed FUN! Oh and yes i skipped the divas match. 05 is a nice/solid year for the wwe.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I just finished up every single BROCK match & finished completing my top 26 BROCK matches list (Top 26 because I thought it would be criminal to exclude the match that I would have had to exclude as I'm a huge fan of it), & I'm just wondering if I should go check out Brock Vs Undertaker in that House Show Steel Cage match in 2003? If it has three star potential then it could perhaps find its way onto the list and I just want some input before I actually go ahead and view it. I'm going to put in some major work for this list though, so it'll probably be a few weeks until I post it, maybe... Maybe I'll just get lazy and shit.

Lots of tags n' shit on those Bryan lists, just goes to show you how he's pretty much the pinnacle of tag team wrestling in the WWE alongside SHIELD. I think if something big comes out of his seemingly new character change, we could be potentially looking at one of the best babyface runs ever if Bryan is finally allowed to be the FIP in the WWE main event scene. I'm going to assume amongst all of the speculation & rumors of Sheamus/Orton @ Summerslam, that we'll finally get a Dolph-Bryan program that would probably be better suited w/ Dolph as face due to me not really enjoying his control segments all that much, but I think they'll manage just fine, especially if Bryan could manage to take the belt off of Dolph and they give him some big men to work with. A face Bryan defending against a heel Ryback would be the best possible scenario for Ryback as a worker at this point.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bryan vs. Miz is WAY too low on those lists, in fact it's totally missing off of Gamblor's.  Probably a top 3 or 4 match from 2010.

Vengeance '05 is one of the best PPVs of the last 10 years for sure. So much consistency. Summerslam '05 I'd like to own sometime. Haven't seen it since it aired...

You should watch the Cage match, Evan. Never seen it personally but heard a few people on here say it was good. Can't hurt either way, not like we'll ever see it on dvd.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Sheamus match is his best in WWE imo.


Might be his best individual performace in his WWE career in terms of controlling the bulk of the match and the strong structure that made great utilisation of the 3 falls format. I do love the Punk OTL match but that feels more like a case of both guys having a similar style that meshed well and was hard for either to truly stand out in. Sheamus was great in the ER match with Bryan, but it felt like a match that you otherwise wouldn't get at the time from Sheamus if he wasn't facing Bryan. The way the first fall built around Bryan pickin his opportunity and eventually targeting the arm to then segue into the immediate second fall was just marvellous and its hard to imagine so much care and attention to detail being apparent had Bryan not been there.

The Miz match does indeed deserve to be higher. Bryan's second best performance as a face in WWE and a match where Miz deserves ample credit. He worked on top well and built an interesting control segment that wasn't merely carried by Bryan's smart and sympathetic selling. The build to Bryan's comeback and the nearfall teases were well timed and the finish was defintive and perfect.

Sad to see no-one mention Henry/Bryan Steel Cage on Smackdown. Top 5 Bryan match in WWE imo and one of the best that year. Bryan's best performance as a face, Henry being immaculate as the monster heel selling the ankle superbly, the way in which they develop Bryan as someone initially looking to escape and then becoming more confident and determined to beat Henry when he spots the ankle hindering Henry and that brilliant callback spot to their first match where Henry again powers out of the Lebell Lock only for Bryan to anticipate this and transition into a submission targeting the ankle. Just a wonderful match and truly perfect sub 10 minute affair.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Need to watch that Cage match with Henry. Honestly don't think I saw it when it aired, just those couple non-gimmick matches they had on SD, in particular the one where Bryan _almost_ cashed in after due to Big Show's involvement. That was great.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Their first match was pretty good. A basic match which in hindsight made sense since it would have been stupid to give too much away, but the highlight was Bryan's brief comeback which the crowd went ballistic for. Then they had a match the week after which was pretty pointless and saw Bryan largely squashed. Then you had the Bryan cash-in that was quashed by Teddy, Bryan winning the #1 contenders four way in the main event and challenging Henry the next week on the Live edition of Smackdown.

The Cage match goes about 8 or 9 minutes but its honestly perfect. Stupendous selling and overall performance from Henry, Bryan bumps like a madman and times and executes every bit of offence on his comeback perfectly and they really start to play up Henry's ankle continually hindering him just enough for Bryan to exploit. Finish is also a perfect way to have Henry look like the most resilient man on the roster whilst protecting Bryan in defeat. Maybe Henry's best performance during his excellent '11.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd argue that the cage match between Henry & Bryan is Henry's greatest match ever and perhaps a top five cage match in company history.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Backlund/Slaughter & Hardy/Edge feel like matches I'd argue were better or at least wouldn't begrudge anyone for thinking that way. HHH/Flair from Taboo Tuesday '05 also feels like a match I'd call better. Don't remember much of Hart/Hart and if I'm being honest I'm not really enthused about watching that match to reconsider my stance. Punk/Hardy was very good for a Loser Leaves Town match but I'd put Henry/Bryan over it given the strength of Henry's performance and all of Bryan's comebacks. So Top 5 and maybe top 3 Cage Match in company history feels acceptable and not ridiculous in the slightest to me. Can't recall any Cage match on TV from '98-12 setting the world on fire apart from Punk/Hardy & Henry/Bryan.

I think its the best match of Henry's '11 run. Was going to revisit the Rey 1/20 & 1/27 matches from Smackdown in '06. The 8/19/08 Henry/Hardy match on ECW is also fantastic and another match I could see being viewed as better, even if I'm unsure where I'd stand myself.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Made the first entry into my Vader project today, VADER is da man. Check it if you have time, and leave some feedback! http://obrtanner.wordpress.com/


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dbryan best wwe matches

no order
henry cage
del rio smackdown
sheamus er 12
ziggler br 10
tlc 12


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Top five Bryan matches in date order

vs. The Miz NOC (?) 2010 (where he wins the US title, I'm 99% sure it's NOC)
vs. Mark Henry Steel Cage
vs. Sheamus at ER
vs. Punk at OTL
w/ Ryback and Kane vs. The Shield at TLC

Honorable mentions are the six man this past week, vs. Punk at MITB and vs. Big Show and Mark Henry at The Royal Rumble which needs a hell of a lot more loving around here. A very forgotten about match in 2012 and just in general. So bossy for a sub 10 minute match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> Made the first entry into my Vader project today, VADER is da man. Check it if you have time, and leave some feedback! http://obrtanner.wordpress.com/


Shit that's a lot of Vader. The only thing I ask is that you provide ay links for matches that you watched online (Youtube, Dailymotion, etc.) so us folks can watch the greatness too. You'll enjoy his match with Yoshihiro Takayama from the GHC Title tournament as well if you liked the Taue match. (Y)



FluxCapacitor said:


> Top five Bryan matches in date order
> 
> vs. The Miz NOC (?) 2010 (where he wins the US title, I'm 99% sure it's NOC)
> vs. Mark Henry Steel Cage
> ...


I wasn't too big on the 3-Way Cage match match personally. Just kinda felt... there. Henry didn't do much of anything because of his injury and... well that's about all I got. haha. Gave it like ** 1/4 I think.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Miz I have at ***1/2 and think it just missed the cut. Was a great match and Miz's best, but not up there with Bryan's best... at least not anymore. Before The Shield matches came it would've been in my top 10, but I don't think it's that ridiculous of an exclusion. It wasn't THAT great (at least not to me anyway).

As far as Bryan's performance in the ER match with Sheamus being his best individual performance... I wouldn't necessarily disagree. He absolutely carried that match. The first fall in itself is what I'd maybe give higher than **** to, but after that the work-rate took a backseat to the story that played out, and even then with Bryan completely exhausting Sheamus, Sheamus still came back to win. Not that I expected anything else, but it still irks me a bit. **** is what I found as a fair rating, and it is a very high **** match and top 75 of all time. 

But as far as Bryan's best individual performance, it's either that match against Sheamus... or the TLC match with The Shield. Don't get me wrong, in that match everyone was great and played their role to perfection, but Bryan's performance in that match is what I remember as standing out amongst all the great ones, how over he was any time he managed to get in offense, and ultimately it's what makes me put it at ****1/2 and call it a classic, and the best TLC match ever. 

Punk/Bryan... both guys just gave amazing performances and meshed so well to put on a wrestling classic. I couldn't put one above the other for individual performance in that match.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Shit that's a lot of Vader. The only thing I ask is that you provide ay links for matches that you watched online (Youtube, Dailymotion, etc.) so us folks can watch the greatness too. You'll enjoy his match with Yoshihiro Takayama from the GHC Title tournament as well if you liked the Taue match.


No problem, I was thinking about doing that, but I figured no one would care, but I will be adding links in the future!




Spoiler:  - Vader links for today



Vader/Baker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrYr5rGCAGM

Vader/Santo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUGyl6dEKSw

Vader/Tanta vs Albright/Yamazaki I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEgcvvcK_Oo

Vader/Tenta vs Albright/Yamazaki II http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJpseiUOFDM

Vader/Shamrock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jx-APzXmdc

Vader/Austin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elan0_6Bg78

Vader/Hart http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfLMo7wg6Po

Vader/Henry http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8svyq_vader-vs-mark-henry-heat-august-98_sport?search_algo=2#.UZ50SbWTgnM

Vader/Williams vs Kobashi/Akiyama http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_AkSFZ3EP4&list=PLFjoLD7TEGZsTrr0gZGyyGAFeGQpacVIP&index=1

Vader/Taue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2gksPp5sZA

Vader/Tiger Shark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFsNR5T1XDA

Vader/Slater http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eWZ_VIoRLQ


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

answering your message funnyfaces on here,idk the punk/bryan otl match is very weird to me, One watch I Love it and have it close to ***** and then the next it goes down. It depend on the day I watch it though, the mat wresting is excellent in the match and cannot be knocked. I like their raw match after the rumble but I have the ones I listed before above it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Have you checked out their Smackdown match? I don't understand why it doesn't get enough attention. The energy from the crowd as well as Punk and Bryan was off the charts. Best Smackdown match of 2012.

I would also like to thank zep for that awesome Sting list.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ZIggler/Bryan br 10 ***3/4

I feel like there is just one thing missing that keeps it from being great. I feels like a glorified raw match. It feel like it jsut two guys put together for 15+ mins and just whatever, and them two being top notch worker make it work somehow

I find it weird though that for a guy that so good in the ring in :ziggler1, he doesn't have that ****1/2 yet, I would like to know what do you guys think is his absolute best match. No need for top 5 as I already know the usual with him, but which is the best ?

I would say superstars with masters

EDit: @funnyfaces yes I have, it was good as well but the whole stopping the match and the johnny L and teddy interaction dragged it down. Without all the BS that could of been a top 5 match of 12


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I would also like to thank zep for that awesome Sting list.


NP, slightly updated:



Spoiler: Sting Match List



Sting/Luger vs The Steiner Brothers - Superbrawl I
Sting/Luger/Ric Flair/Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/'Sting' - Fall Brawl 1996: Wargames
Sting/Nikita Koloff vs Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard - Great American Bash 1988
Sting/Ric Flair vs Terry Funk/The Great Muta - Halloween Havoc 1989
Sting vs Ric Flair - Clash Of The Champions I
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Clash Of The Champions II
Sting vs Cactus Jack - Beach Blast 1992
Sting/Ric Flair vs Vader/Rick Rude – Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994
Sting vs Hulk Hogan vs DDP vs Ric Flair - Spring Stampede 1999
Sting/Luger vs Steiner Brothers vs Harlem Heat - Clash Of The Champions 1996
Sting/Steamboat vs Steve Austin/Ric Flair - WCW Saturday Night 1994
Sting vs DDP - Nitro 26.04.1999 
Sting vs Goldberg – Nitro 14.09.1998
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - Nitro 20.11.1995
Sting/British Bulldog/Dustin Rhodes vs Vader/Sid/Rick Rude - Clash Of The Champions 1993
Sting vs Lord Steven Regal - WCW Great American Bash 1996
Sting vs Meng - The Great American Bash 1995
Sting vs Lex Luger SuperBrawl II (1992)
Sting vs Rick Rude - Clash 18.11.1992 
Sting vs Scott Steiner - Nitro 27.05.1996 
Sting/Luger vs Road Warriors - Superbrawl 96
Sting/Muta vs Stenier Brothers - NJPW Supershow 1992
Sting vs Lex Luger vs Ric Flair - Starrcade 1995 
Sting/Macho Man vs Avalanche/Big Bubba - Superbrawl 1995 
Sting vs Big Van Vader - Great American Bash 1992 
Sting vs Kensuke Sasaki - Starrcade 1995
Sting vs The Great Muta - 21.03.1991 (Japan Version) 
Starrcade 1991 Battlebowl Battle-Royal 
Sting vs Vader - Starrcade 1992 
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Road Warriors - Starrcade 1988 
Sting/Luger/Windham vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Main Event 03.04.1988 
Sting vs Ric Flair - Great American Bash 1990 
Sting vs Great Muta - Great American Bash 1989 
Sting vs The Giant - Slamboree 1996 
Sting/Booker T vs The Road Warriors - (Chicago Street Fight) Uncensored 1996 
Sting vs Sid Vicious - Halloween Havoc 90
Sting & British Bulldog vs Vader & Sid (19/9/1993)
Sting vs Jeff Jarrett - TNA Bound for Glory 2006
Sting vs Kurt Angle - TNA Bound For Glory 2007
Wrestle War 1991: Wargames
Sting vs Bret Hart - Halloween Havoc 1998 
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - SuperBrawl 1998
Sting vs Kevin Nash vs DDP vs Goldberg - Nitro 1999
Sting vs Bobby Eaton - Saturday Night 16.10.1993
Sting/Dave Boy Smith vs Harlem Heat - Saturday Night 28.08.1993



Like i said, this little project is for a friend of mine  Yes i know i havnt included a couple of classics like vs Vader @ Superbrawl..........but i will later 

EDIT - FFS, how do ya put Spoiler tags in lol?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

[ spoiler="insert spoiler title here"] blah blah blah blah [/spoiler]

obviously without the space


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> ZIggler/Bryan br 10 ***3/4
> 
> I feel like there is just one thing missing that keeps it from being great. I feels like a glorified raw match. It feel like it jsut two guys put together for 15+ mins and just whatever, and them two being top notch worker make it work somehow
> 
> ...


vs. Punk Raw November 2011 is his best imo. Fantastic work from both men and they couldn't really follow it up in their later matches, which were still very good, but obviously felt underwhelming in comparison. 

I actually only have 4 Ziggler matches at ***1/2+ (There's a Chris Masters match out there I believe that would make it 5, and maybe some other non-PPV/Raw/SD stuff). Thing about Ziggler is his bumping usually makes his matches fun to watch, and while that's more than what I can say about most of the roster, it does lead him to being a tad bit overrated. At the same time, I do think if given the shot at Mania to have a lengthy match with someone who doesn't suck, he could potentially "steal the show". I mean, Taker/Ziggler at Mania would probably be amazing (it shouldn't happen of course, but it's something to think about). Or hell, if they turn Ziggler face and let Brock absolutely destroy him? I don't know how Ziggler's long-term selling would be, but I can imagine every move Lesnar would hit would look like it killed Ziggler. 

And speaking of which, I also think Ziggler would make a better face worker than he is as a heel.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I decided to check out some of the matches on Raw this week after ignoring the show at first.

Sheamus vs Titus O'Neil - ★★¼

Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger - ★★ (I usually defend Orton but this was pretty boring and truly felt like a "going through the motions" match for both)

The Shield vs Hell No & Kingston - ★★★¾ (Not as great as others say but still was really fun, specially once Bryan got the hot tag in the first ten minutes. Great finishing sequence and The Shield work so well as a team. Bryan is the star, though. He needs to go solo fast and start putting on MOTN singles matches with other main eventers)

Probably the third best Shield match after TLC and the Taker match. Need to rewatch the EC one, though. And I hope the Smackdown main event delivers this week. In case somebody doesn't want it spoiled:



Spoiler: SD main event



The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus & Kofi Kingston


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would of rep u ham lot but I need to spread it around. The masters match u speak I have as his best match in the wwe. I loved tge punk nov 11 match and actually feel their royal rumble match is underrated

See the thing is I think he always in weird position and makes the new of what he can. He always has those 15 min openers and they just feel like fillers cas in point the orton match at noc


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Was just watching some WWE hype promos. They always manage to do a good job with these things but I think this has to be my favorite.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Promo talk? I need to use this opportunity to put over this video package:






Awesome background song that makes me feel nostalgic and so well put together. Makes the match seem like a much bigger deal than how WWE treated it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Two of my favourites:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Promo talk? I need to use this opportunity to put over this video package:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuck yes, this one owns.

Despite not being a fan of the feud, I'm a big fan of this one too.






Edit: LOVE that HHH/Flair one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just shows how much fucking 100000000000000000000000% better Trips is at playing the fucking bastardly heel, as much as i moan about him now, if he turned Corporate heel, he'd be much more acceptable to watch IMO.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh hell yeah, just look at that evil smile on the screengrab for the No Way Out promo with Austin. Sums it all up. GOAT heel.

:jpl


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


>


"Triple H is having a seizure" 

Good 'ol JR is fucking GOLD here also :faint:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Who watched the Cesaro/Sami Zyan match from NXT?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Flair/HHH video package... the promo HHH cut on Flair during that may be my favorite of his of all time. Unlike the usual HHH stuff, it didn't feel like it dragged and I actually kept wanting it to go on when I first watched it. Awesome stuff.

On the video packages, that Taker/HBK one or the Punk/Cena MITB one would be my favorite.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/hbk package should be mention Id upload it but dont know how

Edit: their bad blood package is also put together well. Or maybe I just love those two


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not going to be mentioned due to how the match isn't exactly the greatest, but the Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Promo before the Bad Blood 2004 Hell in a Cell is one of my all time favorites, as well as the pre-match video package before Triple H Vs The Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXVII. Choke2Death hit the nail on the head with the Orton-Mysterio-Angle one though, doesn't seem to get a mention anywhere else due to the match itself being complete and utter garbage for a Wrestlemania World Title Match.

A few pages ago I remember WOOLCOCK talking about what cage matches he would place above Daniel Bryan Vs Mark Henry in the history of the WWF/WWE, and I'd be inclined to agree with the ones he stated; Backlund Vs Slaughter (probably the best cage match the WWE has ever done, number two at the very lowest anyways), HHH Vs Flair (SEE Backlund Vs Slaughter), Edge Vs Hardy, & MAYBE Punk-Hardy & HHH-Brock... So it's top six at the very very worst. More people need to see that Backlund-Slaughter cage though, legit.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> It's not going to be mentioned due to how the match isn't exactly the greatest, but the Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Promo before the Bad Blood 2004 Hell in a Cell is one of my all time favorites, as well as the pre-match video package before Triple H Vs The Undertaker at Wrestlemania XXVII. Choke2Death hit the nail on the head with the Orton-Mysterio-Angle one though, doesn't seem to get a mention anywhere else due to the match itself being complete and utter garbage for a Wrestlemania World Title Match.
> 
> A few pages ago I remember WOOLCOCK talking about what cage matches he would place above Daniel Bryan Vs Mark Henry in the history of the WWF/WWE, and I'd be inclined to agree with the ones he stated; Backlund Vs Slaughter (probably the best cage match the WWE has ever done, number two at the very lowest anyways), HHH Vs Flair (SEE Backlund Vs Slaughter), Edge Vs Hardy, & MAYBE Punk-Hardy & HHH-Brock... So it's top six at the very very worst. More people need to see that Backlund-Slaughter cage though, legit.


Good call on the HHH/HBK Bad Blood promo. I'm sure there's a lot of other top packages that get forgotten due to the matches that follow being lacklustre or just downright bad. (Though I like the Bad Blood match).

Not seen Backlund/Slaughter cage but will check that out if it's being ranked up there with all these other top cage matches. HHH/Flair and Hardy/Edge definitely my top two favourites at the moment, haven't watched the latter in a while though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Who's the guy that did the hhh/benoit matches project ? could he tell me his thoughts on their 2000 encounters ?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As far as cage matches goes, Edge/Hardy is at the top of my list. Amazing match. Matt Hardy's best and one of Edge's best.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> As far as cage matches goes, Edge/Hardy is at the top of my list. Amazing match. Matt Hardy's best and one of Edge's best.


better than his HIAC with Taker ?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Who's the guy that did the hhh/benoit matches project ? could he tell me his thoughts on their 2000 encounters ?


That was me. They only had three singles matches in 2000, most of the others they were involved in together were tags. Anyway:

*Smackdown 3rd February 2000 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*


Spoiler



So, we begin with Benoit's debut WWF match. He doesn't even have a proper theme or titantron video at this point. After some trash talk, the opening few minutes are filled with some hard hitting strikes but nothing major. Benoit tries to lock in the Crossface but HHH is wise to it. Benoit looks a little rusty at first and this match takes a while to get going before the action spills to the outside, and HHH drop toeholds Benoit into the steel steps. Nasty looking bump. Benoit gets back in control when he finally hits some big time offense in the form of triple German suplexes. He goes to the top rope but HHH pushes the referee into the ropes to knock him down. A perfect superplex from the top and it looks like Triple H is heading for the win, before Benoit locks him in the Crossface and The Game taps! But the referee is still down. Benoit heads for the top rope again and this time hits the flying headbutt, but only gets a long two. With the referee still dazed, Trips strikes with a low blow and finishes Benoit off with an awesome Pedigree. How much better did the Pedigree look back then when Hunter would keep their hands locked? Beautiful.

A solid enough match, restricted by the time and Benoit looking a little rusty for whatever reason. Perhaps it was nerves. Not much psychology or story telling in this one, it was basically a brawl, and HHH's win completed DX's 'clean sweep' over the new guys The Radicalz that night. A lot better to come, but a steady opening.

**3/4



*No Mercy 2000 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit (LOVE this match)*


Spoiler



So, finally we get to Triple H and Benoit's first PPV match together and one of my favourite matches. After Benoit headbutted Stephanie and locked HHH in the crossface multiple times over the past few weeks, Triple H is looking to get revenge while Benoit is looking to knock off one of the best in the WWF and prove he's the best technical wrestler in the company.

We start off with a brief brawl as both men go at each other, but Triple H comes out on top with some hefty right hands in the corner. This plays into his gameplan since Benoit can't get technical, but then HHH starts to work on Benoit's left knee with a chopblock, elbows and ramming it into the ringpost. It's a great sequence and the psychology is excellent, with Triple H not only wanting to beat Benoit, but also out wrestle him. He locks Benoit in a painful looking knee lock and he's well in control, with J.R and King chiming in and mentioning that The Game is putting on a wrestling clinic at the moment.

Benoit wriggles away from the punishment and onto the outside, before getting some offense in of his own by catapulting HHH into the ring post. Back in the ring, Benoit is now in control and begins to work on the weakened shoulder of Triple H, that has been locked in the Crossface multiple times over the last few weeks. He hits a nice armbar takedown before a couple of hammerlock suplexes ground the game and Benoit is now in total control, and back wanting to prove to The Game and everyone that he can out-wrestle any opponent. He then locks Triple H in the cross armbreaker, and The Game sells it well. Benoit then climbs up top and delivers a big diving headbutt right to the shoulder of HHH. 

Benoit looks in total control but Triple H sneaks in a roll up and gets a two count, before countering and hitting an awesome inverted suplex. They then go to the top rope and HHH connects with a big superplex. Both men looking worn out and battered now, and Benoit comes back with some German suplexes and a full nelson suplex that only gets two. Both looking really on their game and almost all of the moves have been performed to perfection. Triple H whips Benoit across the ring, but Benoit counters and locks in the Crippler Crossface. Triple H tries to maneuver out of it but Benoit pounds on the shoulder and locks it back in fully. The Game sells it well and just as it looks like he's about to tap, he counters and picks Benoit up and slams him down with an inverted Samoan drop. This match has now descended from each man trying to out-wrestle the other, into one where both men want to inflict as much pain to the other and Benoit is pissed he couldn't get The Game to tap. 

Suddenly, Stephanie arrives at ringside and slaps Benoit with the referees back turned. Triple H then tries to hit the Pedigree but Benoit counters multiple times and tries to lock in the Crossface once more. HHH won't allow it, realizes he can't out-wrestle Benoit and while Stephanie has the ref distracted, hits the low blow. An awesome Pedigree follows and Triple H picks up the win.

An awesome match, and it never seems to get any worse each time I watch it. I love the first half, with Triple H trying to prove to the young upstart that he's got a long way to go before he can 'hang' with the big dog. Before Benoit comes back and proves that no-one can out-wrestle him and he almost has HHH beat but can't make him tap to the Crossface. I used to dislike the ending with Steph involved but after a few watches I realized that having Triple H win after the low blow is a big credit to Benoit since HHH couldn't out-wrestle him and couldn't put him away without the sneaky finish. Awesome match.

****1/2



*Smackdown 2nd November 2000 - Triple H vs Chris Benoit*


Spoiler



So, here we get the re-match between the two from No Mercy. I recall this not being particluarly good (mostly due to the short time) but let's see how it holds up.

Benoit goes straight for Triple H after he comes down from posing at the top of the turnbuckle. Both men exchange hard blows before Triple H tries to hit an early Pedigree. Benoit counters and tries to go for the Crossface, before hammering away at the shoulder of The Game that has been weakened over the past month. The match then heads to the outside and Triple H drop toeholds Benoit into the steel steps before slamming him down on the barricade. Both men seeming to want to simply beat the hell out of each other in this one.

Triple H suplexes Benoit in from the apron with solid impact, before working on him in the corner. Benoit comes back with a reverse suplex, but it's not long until the referee is knocked down. Triple H goes for the Pedigree but down comes Malenko and Saturn to interfere. Triple H gets rid of them both, and hits the Pedigree on Benoit. The referee is still down though and Eddie Guerrero arrives and downs The Game with the IC title belt. The referee recovers and counts the three.

An ok match, obviously both men can do a lot better but this was mainly to keep Benoit over with a win, and re-introduce the Radicalz as a full group. A little longer would have been nice due to their excellent performance a few weeks prior at No Mercy, but oh well.

**3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ok thanks bud I remember them having one great one in 2000s its the no mercy. If I do recall the first match was benoit devut


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another awesome hype video that gets overlooked due to the match not being favored by many.






I MUST CONFESS THAT I FEEL LIKE A MONSTER!


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Watching the cage match between Hardy and Edge for the first time literally HAD me rooting for Matt the whole way through, one of the best babyface performances I've ever seen, helped by a legit storyline and Edge playing the heel as good as ever. Must of been pretty hard for the two to put on a legit match with the personal animosity they must of had, true professionals though for coming out with a match as good as that. The leg drop at the end was a perfect way to end the match and the feud, seriously must of hurt like hell that.

****1/2. Was a bit dull for a few minutes in the middle, but the good massively outweighed the bad. 

For the Summerslam match a month earlier, should of been done on Raw, not at the second biggest PPV of the year. You would never of seen that at Wrestlemania. The action was awesome, but it shouldn't of been booked at Summerslam. *** for the brawl though, both men holding nothing back when it came to the punches.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

So I just finished the month of June 2002 which means I'm half way through the year and this is the MOTYC so far



Spoiler: 2002 STARS



RAW 05/27/2002 - Ladder Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero ****1/4
Smackdown 05/30/2002 - Steel Cage Match: Kurt Angle vs. Edge ****
Backlash 2002 - Edge vs. Kurt Angle ****
Judgment Day 2002 - Hair vs. Hair Match: Edge vs. Kurt Angle ***3/4
Royal Rumble 2002 - WWF Undisputed Championship: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho ***3/4
WrestleMania 18 - The Rock vs. “Hollywood” Hulk Hogan ***1/2
RAW 01/28/2002 – Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ***1/2
WrestleMania 18 - WWF Undisputed Championship: Chris Jericho (w/ Stephanie McMahon) vs. Triple H ***1/4 - ***1/2
Backlash 2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero ***1/4
Judgment Day 2002 - Intercontinental Championship: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam ***1/4
Smackdown 01/03/2002 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle ***1/4
Backlash 2002 - Cruiserweight Championship: Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri (w/Torrie Wilson) ***1/4
Velocity 05/25/02 - Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri ***1/4
WrestleMania 18 - NoDQ: Ric Flair vs. The Undertaker ***1/4
Raw 06/03/2002 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Ric Flair ***1/4
Smackdown 01/03/2002 - The Rock & Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho & Test ***1/4
Raw 06/24/2002 - WWE Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) *** - ***1/4
RAW 02/25/2002 WWF Undisputed Championship: Chris Jericho (w/ Stephanie McMahon) vs. Kurt Angle ***
Smackdown05/11/2002 - Chris Jericho vs. Edge ***
WrestleMania 18 - Kurt Angle vs. Kane ***
RAW 03/04/2002 - Rob Van Dam vs. Lance Storm ***
RAW 04/08/2002 - The Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam ***
No Way Out 2002 - WWF Undisputed World Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ***
Raw 04/29/2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Jeff Hardy vs. Eddie Guerrero ***
RAW 02/18/2002 - #1 Contender's Match - Triple H vs. Kurt Angle ***
Raw 04/15/2002 - William Regal & Eddie Guerrero vs. Spike Dudley & Rob Van Dam ***
Raw 06/03/2002 - Eddie Guerrero & Brock Lesnar vs. Rob Van Dam & Bubba Ray Dudley ***
RAW 01/21/2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: William Regal vs. Edge ***
Royal Rumble 2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: William Regal vs. Edge ***
King of the Ring 2002 - King of the Ring Semi-Finals: Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho ***
Smackdown 04/25/2002 - #1 Contender's Match: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho ***
RAW 03/04/2002 - Steel Cage Match: Kurt Angle vs. Triple H **3/4 - ***
Judgment Day 2002 - Hell in a Cell: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho **3/4 - ***
Smackdown 06/20/2002 - The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle **3/4
Smackdown 04/04/2002 - The Rock vs. Chris Jericho **3/4
Smackdown 01/24/2002 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle **3/4
King of the Ring 2002 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Ric Flair **3/4
Smackdown 01/03/2002 - Rob Van Dam & Edge vs. Chris Jericho & Kurt Angle **3/4
Smackdown 05/16/2002 - Triple H & Edge vs. Chris Jericho & Kurt Angle **3/4
Smackdown 06/27/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. John Cena **3/4
Smackdown 05/09/2002 - Reverend D-Von vs. Triple H **3/4
Raw 06/10/2002 - KOTR Qualifying Match: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero **3/4
Smackdown 05/02/2002 - Kurt Angle & Lance Storm vs. Edge & Val Venis **3/4
King of the Ring 2002 - Cruiserweight Championship: The Hurricane vs. Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) **1/2 - **3/4
Smackdown 05/30/2002 - The Hurricane & Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri & Chavo Guerrero **1/2 - **3/4
Smackdown 04/18/2002 - Billy Kidman & The Hurricane vs. Chavo Guerrero & Tajiri (w/ Torrie Wilson) **1/2 - **3/4


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Christian Louboutin said:


> So I just finished the month of June 2002 which means I'm half way through the year and this is the MOTYC so far
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I saw your biggest rating as ****1/4 in June 2002 and had to think if 2002 was as good of a year as I once thought, but then I remembered it picks up massively at Summerslam (Brock/Rock, HBK/HHH, Angle/Rey). And then you have classics involving the SD 6 to end the year in addition to Lesnar's reign of great matches, and the first ever Elimination Chamber match!

Thinking about, the year of 2002 is definitely the transition year from Attitude Era to RA Era. You had Stone Cold and The Rock leave half way through the year. We went from Hogan main eventing to Lesnar, the brand split etc.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Punk vs Cena from MitB is tied with that WM 26 promo for Shawn and Taker as my favorite:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Umaga-Cena or Jericho-Triple H as the best LMS match?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> better than his HIAC with Taker ?


Nah, I said it was one of his best, not the best. That cell match with Taker is Edge's best.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

umaga/cena hands down


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Umaga/Cena RR 07 is the best LMS for me, though it's close and I don't have a problem with people claiming Jericho/HHH is the best one.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Jericho/HHH for me, though like Gamblor I have no problem with others claiming the other is better. Both superb matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I didnt mean hands down like your wrong if you believe hhh/y2j I personally prefer cena/umaga


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk/Cena MITB is the GOAT video package. Sends me back to Summer 2011 every time I watch it.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Fluze said:


> Umaga-Cena or Jericho-Triple H as the best LMS match?


Hmm, tough one. Would probably go with Cena vs. Umaga at Royal Rumble '07 but Triple H vs. Jericho at Fully Loaded '00 comes very, very close, so I have no problem whatsoever with anyone claiming the latter was the best Last Man Standing. Big fan of both.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> Umaga-Cena or Jericho-Triple H as the best LMS match?


Cena/Umaga easily. I obviously have no problem with anybody saying Trip/Jericho is better (and IDK why anybody would), but I'd take Cena/YooManga in a landslide, personally.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Orton from 02 for the Undisputed Title:






Just came across this match on youtube randomly. Been a long time since I've seen it, but it's not bad (nothing special though). Taker's promo before the match was pretty bad, like he didn't know what to say or something, but still hilarious with the sucking up to the crowd and all that. Then the beginning of the match is fun as well with Taker shaking Orton's hand and playing the fake-face for a little while before Randy really started getting the best of him. That chokeslam at the end looked like a mis-communication botch, but it actually ended up looking pretty cool and it's certainly unique. Orton definitely got a little rub from the match as he got in plenty of offense on Taker. And hell, Taker was gonna even make Orton famous until someone stuck their big nose where it didn't belong. Guess he did it for Evolution. 

But anyway, was surprised by the offense Orton got as I remembered it as a total squash match. DAMN though at some of the editing, in the match and during that post-match brawl between Taker and HHH.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I know I'm a little late on the video packages talk but the Austin/Angle video package for their Summerslam 2001 match is incredible. 





As for personal favorites:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That's irrelevant said:


> As for personal favorites:


:mark:

This one's up there as one of my favorites as well, maybe even number 3 behind the two I mentioned before.

And came across this video:






Why am I brinhing this one up? No reason other than my amazement at how fucking small Brock looked next to his team. And then Cena looked like a midget when they were all surrounding him in the ring. :lmao


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Always liked this promo


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oliver-94 said:


> Always liked this promo


Another amazing promo. TBH I'm starting to realize just how impossible it is for me to even possibly conjure up just a top 10, or put all these amazing promos in order because there's just too many. I mean numbers 1 and 2, in no order, are solidified, but the rest are just up there. Here are some other awesome ones:


















There's just too fucking many that are coming to my head as well that I don't feel like looking up. The EC SVS 02 promo, Hogan/Vince WM19, Rock/Cena WM29, Taker/Flair WM18, and... hell, I could probably list a dozen more, and while I'm listing those dozen a dozen more will come to my head. Just so many awesome promos. WWE's most consistent department, that's for sure.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SO MANY YOUTUBE VIDEOS! 

On the topic of Cage matches from earlier today, I've had Bret vs. Owen at ***** for years now, but haven't actually seen it in that long. haha. Regardless it'll be tough for any WWE Cage match to top that for me.

Anyone else read C2D's spoiler for the Smackdown main event? I may have to watch that shit. :mark:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The production of video promos in the AE were really amazing, They're still good now, don't get me wrong. But in the AE, They were something else.


----------



## RKing85 (Mar 22, 2010)

WWF video guide volume 3 is now out. 

If you are not familiar with them, they are for sale on lulu.com. Outstanding reference guides for the old WWE VHS tapes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just finished up Mark Henry vs. Daniel Bryan for the World Title inside the Steel Cage on Smackdown. Great stuff all around from both guys. Henry's selling and powerhouse attitude were (Y), Bryan's selling of Henry's monstrous offense was (Y), the slingshot spot into the cage was AWESOME, the submission attempts from Bryan were (Y), and the finish was super cool. Big (Y) from me, high end *** 1/2. Anyone wants to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4OsJAcy7Ek

Btw, going back to those D-Bry lists from earlier, was the 2011 SD Money in the Bank match on any of them? I would assume if you guys counted EC matches then MITB have to count as well, therefore that'd probably round out my top 5 or 6.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Who watched the Cesaro/Sami Zyan match from NXT?


Aye.

Short and the selling point was the company supremely putting Sami over, which was enough to have me go ballistic with the idea that the company sees the world in him. Far from anything special, but clearly something fans of his prior will get a certain kick out of.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Total for got about MITB 2011 Corey. I watched bragging rights with ziggler today and it didn't hold up. I guess ill add that one

Just watched hbk/scsa vs Owen and davey ****1/2 goat tag match IMO won't find a better 10 min match around


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just finished up Mark Henry vs. Daniel Bryan for the World Title inside the Steel Cage on Smackdown. Great stuff all around from both guys. Henry's selling and powerhouse attitude were (Y), Bryan's selling of Henry's monstrous offense was (Y), the slingshot spot into the cage was AWESOME, the submission attempts from Bryan were (Y), and the finish was super cool. Big (Y) from me, high end *** 1/2. Anyone wants to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4OsJAcy7Ek
> 
> Btw, going back to those D-Bry lists from earlier, was the 2011 SD Money in the Bank match on any of them? I would assume if you guys counted EC matches then MITB have to count as well, therefore that'd probably round out my top 5 or 6.


I need to re-watch that. I have no recollection of it besides the end where Bryan kicks Barrett off a ladder.

I know I've tried looking for it online, but haven't been able to find it. Any youtube or dailymotion link?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I may be a tag team wrestling aficionado, but I'll never have the metaphoric "hard-on" for the Owen/Smith vs Austin/Michaels RAW '97 match. It's really good, although I can name matches under the sub-10/11 minute format which I dig more. Cactus Jack vs Helmsley 9/22/97 for one from the same year, even. Not including a slew from Superstars circa 2010 or Morishima vs KENTA in early '07.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> I need to re-watch that. I have no recollection of it besides the end where Bryan kicks Barrett off a ladder.
> 
> I know I've tried looking for it online, but haven't been able to find it. Any youtube or dailymotion link?


The quality's kinda shitty, but there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euvjPCErt8

If you like I can rip it off the Daniel Bryan Superstar Collection dvd too. Just let me know.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

"you can't beat the big show", "you can't suplex the big show". for me this is up there for goat promo especially with the incredible payoff of a ****+ 5 minute match and Paul knowing he can't beat big show because he's going to make damn sure of it. all of it was awesome.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

:lmao, Watching an episode of SD from 2000, Taker smacks Big Show while saying you wanna be "A KILLER", This was from the unholy alliance days. A classic ministry doing by Undie.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The quality's kinda shitty, but there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euvjPCErt8
> 
> If you like I can rip it off the Daniel Bryan Superstar Collection dvd too. Just let me know.


Quickly checked the link, should be alright from the looks of it. I'll give it a watch tomorrow maybe.

So more video surfing and saw WWE put out this one a few days ago:






MAH GAWD, SANDOW AT 2:17-2:55 :lmao :lmao :lmao

I become a bigger mark of the guy every time I see him not on WWE-TV, but doing something on one of these wwefannation shows. They never show anything like this on Raw or SD and this is the type of stuff that could really make Sandow big. 



Spoiler: sd spoiler



Though Sandow seems to be doing something with Sheamus and had a full segment, so they MIGHT let him show off a little more...



Anyway, how about Sandow's best match in WWE (one-on-one)? He hasn't really been put in any big match situations to have a memorable match and he's not quite on the level of skill where he can make something out of nothing, but I enjoy some of the intensity he brings in his matches. But I'm not sure what I'd call his best, and I'm kind of in the mood for Sandow after watching that video so... any ideas?

Edit:


> Watching an episode of SD from 2000, Taker smacks Big Show while saying you wanna be "A KILLER", This was from the unholy alliance days. A classic ministry doing by Undie.


That had to of been 1999, but yeah... he was a Ministry/ABA hybrid heel at that time and it was fucking awesome. His promos were top-notch during that time outside of that one desert promo in the ring with Show before Jericho came out.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd say Sandow's best matches have been against Sheamus. Don't remember any dates but they were all pretty physical and slower paced matches that I enjoyed. I'm really not coming up with anything else singles wise from the guy... Think he had a main event match with Orton?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just Sheamus matches? I know he's had quite a few of them. First one where he got counted out and the second one was where he took his first pinfall loss, and then a few more I think after that that he lost.

Anything from NXT, then?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gamblor said:


> Just Sheamus matches? I know he's had quite a few of them. First one where he got counted out and the second one was where he took his first pinfall loss, and then a few more I think after that that he lost.
> 
> Anything from NXT, then?


Not NXT, but Seabs pimped these two FCW matches and put them on his 2011 MOTYC dvd set:

Seth Rollins vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - FCW 30.10.2011
Seth Rollins vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - FCW 13.11.2011

Remember hearing good things about a match he had with Richie Steamboat as well. 

I believe the particular Sheamus match I'm thinking of is RAW 10/1/2012. Whenever Cody gets back on he can probably give you more dates.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I've just downloaded a heap of matches from youtube and the likes. Benoit-Edge Table Match too, I don't remember this at all. Care to share some input on the match?


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Random topic:
What, in your opinion, is the worst Dave Meltzer star rating? Be it due to overrating or underrating. 

Off the top my head, I believe he gave Angle/Hardy at No Surrender 2010 4+ stars. Just.... No


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Sandow matches are all good. The worst being "solid" from Smackdown earlier this year. So, it's a good curve among the series. Off the top of my head its Sandow's best in singles pardon the few FCW bouts.

RAW 10/1/12
RAW 11/19/12
RAW 1/28/13 _(Tables Match)_
Smackdown 2/22/13


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BLITZKREIG


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One radical mother-licker he was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> And came across this video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Jeez, i had to look twice myself to see if that was Brock lol.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Originally Posted by Jbardo 
Best Daniel Bryan matches.

1) v Cm Punk, Over the Limit 2012 - ****3/4
2) v The Shield, TLC 2012 ****1/2
3) v Sheamus, Extreme Rules 2012 - ****1/4
4) v Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010 - ****1/4
5) v The Shield, Raw just gone - ****
6) v Del Rio, Smackdown, August 2011 - ***3/4
7) v Cm Punk, Raw, Jan 2012 - ***3/4
8) v Cm Punk, MITB 12 - ***1/2
9) v The Miz, Night of Champions 11 - ***1/2
10) v The Shield, In London - ***1/2
11) v Wade Barrett, Summerslam 11 - ***1/2
12) v CM Punk v Kane, No Way out 12 - ***1/2

Thanks to the guy who mentioned the MITB match he won, can't believe I forgot that.

That goes to number 6 on my list - ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stellar that someone else pimped out his post SummerSlam match vs Alberto Del Rio. That's a sweet one.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm in the mood to download random shit. Suggestions?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bunch of WCW Kaz Hayashi.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm already watching WCW stuff. :side:

I'm going to make a colleseum appreciation thread soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I would've said Super Calo. But true that your cruiserweight set probably has all of his matches on it.

Do Punk's 2012. Or Sheamus or Danielson. Or all three.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I might do that. But I feel like watching older stuff, to look back on things I've missed, or seen but forgotten.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

King Kenny said:


> I'm in the mood to download random shit. Suggestions?


The El Gigante Collection


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> I might do that. But I feel like watching older stuff, to look back on things I've missed, or seen but forgotten.


1992 Brian Pillman? 1996 Steven Regal? KAZ HAYA- - - 1994 Owen Hart? Sting v. Chris Benoit 9/20/99 (someone other than me has to show love for this up in here)?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Sting v. Chris Benoit 9/20/99 (someone other than me has to show love for this up in here)?


Ya know, i watched that the other day (from Nitro right), and i wasnt sure if i really liked it or not, Benoit was great, Sting was the heel then i believe (lol), but of course being WCW, it has an overbooked ending with Luger and Hogan coming out.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I wasn't exactly in the mood of judging and elaborating, So please do excuse my rather average reviewing. It's Summerslam 2006, BTW.



> *Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero *
> 
> It's unfortunate, that in the field of professional wrestling and only in that, A man's death can be used to further and progress a scripted feud. Digressing away from the glum thinking of having one of the greatest workers die, way before the consistency of his match deliverance went down to an absurd level, which WAS never gonna happen, Eddie was just too good for that. It makes me think about all those "missed" opportunities, as far as match pairings go.
> 
> ...


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I loved everything about Big Show's ECW World Title run, his match with Flair is still one of my favorite matches from that year damn sure my favorite TV match that year. Heyman knew how to book Show.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

PPV of the year in 06? To me this was a hit/miss year. Both summerslam and survivor series fucking blew. I'm going with unforgiven 2006. 

06 featured one the worst summerslams in history IMO and survivor series was a joke of how.dx buried team rko. 

UNFORGIVEN 2006. 

Hardy/Morrison IC title. Very good opener here. Back and forth the whole time and very fast paced. Morrison retains gold. ***1/2

Kane/Umaga. I loved when these 2 faced off, just hard hitting , and flat out brawl. Neither guy looked weak in this match, both looked strong.ends in a countout, but this was decent. **1/2

Sprit squad/highlanders. Both these tag teams sucked. Nothing special here. *3/4 

DX/McMahons and big show. This was just FUN. The first time the new BIG cell debuted. We see the awesome Shane coast to coast here, DX eventually getting the upper hand. HBK giving Shane the flying elbow with the chair wrapped around his neck . And Vinces face getting rammed right up the big shows ass! This always makes me laugh. And then an epic ending when HHH breaks the sledgehammer over Vinces back. Dx wins. FUN FUN FUN! ****

Trish/Lita. Trishes retirement match! This was awesome and one of the better divas matches you'll see. So much emotion for the GOAT diva. Trish ends up locking lita in the sharpshooter and gets a MASSIVE pop as lita taps out. Lilian in tears. Awesome moment. ***1/4

Orton/Carlito. Another solid match. Randy Orton with some funny words before the match to gain heel heat against Carlito, saying us Canadian’s have no lives, Trish is a bitch, ect. Carlito hit the back-stabber, Ross calls it the back-cracker so I’m guessing this was before they re-nmed the move.Carlito reverse irishwhipped to the corner gets two boots to Orton charging in.WHAT A COUNTER.Carlito goes to jump onto Orton and he reversed it into an RKO in mid-air. Orton wins. ***1/4

Cena/Edge TLC. AHHH I know lots of you hate this match. I don't care, me personally I still love this. Edge comes out to the biggest pop of the night being in his hometown , cena comes out to boos. Shocker. YES this featured lots of ridiculous spots, but I still thought it was fun and worked. Cena picks up Lita and FU’s her. Cena sets the table back on another.Cena knows he can win the match if he just climbs the Ladder.Edge climbs back in the ring knowing his title is on the line.Cena picks up Edge and FU’s him through two table’s from the top of the Ladder. Awesome finish. ****1/4

So yes this was PPV of the year for me. 06 was a bit of an off year for ppvs IMO. This featured a bunch of fun matches, 2 ****	matches and 3 ***+ matches. Kane/Umaga was a fun brawl as well. 

What's show of the year for you guys???


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember loving wm 22 as a kid. My cousin and I brought it on ppv and we were so excited for it. We watched it like 5 times that weeks


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Mania, No Mercy or Armageddon.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> I remember loving wm 22 as a kid. My cousin and I brought it on ppv and we were so excited for it. We watched it like 5 times that weeks




Yep I attended WM 22 it was fun. Edge/Foley is MOTN, HHH/Cena was fun. I was disappointed with the triple threat. Went WAY too short IMO


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (Jugdment Day 05): ******
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (The Great American Bash 05): ******

Out of this fucking world.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Yep I attended WM 22 it was fun. Edge/Foley is MOTN, HHH/Cena was fun. I was disappointed with the triple threat. Went WAY too short IMO


yea looking back foley/edge is really the only thing good. MITB was ok, cena/hhh have had much better matches, but RTWM I remeber being great. Plus I was like 11 I think so my taste has matured


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I am very fond of WM22, That flaming table, That suicide dive, That elbow drop from a 20ft ladder, That perfectly executed 619, That demolishment of Cena by the chicago crowd. :mark:.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Fluze said:


> I am very fond of WM22, That flaming table, That suicide dive, That elbow drop from a 20ft ladder, That perfectly executed 619, That demolishment of Cena by the chicago crowd. :mark:.




Eh, I was very upset HBK wasn't in a big match. I wanted to see mr wrestlemania steal the show. Oh and I was balling my eyes out they didn't save angle/taker for mania.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (Jugdment Day 05): ******
> Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (The Great American Bash 05): ******
> 
> Out of this fucking world.


Agreed. Watched them both back about a week ago for my 2005 watchings and I fell in love with their chemistry all over again. Eddie's heel work in the Great American Bash match is something else though, even if the match itself is alot of times considered to be their worst PPV encounter amongst the casuals (I'd argue the opposite although I enjoy the Judgment Day match slightly more). The three amigos into a brainbuster = <3.

Wrestlemania XXII is a fantastic show up and down really. Trish/Mickie, Foley/Edge, JBL/Benoit, MITB II, HHH/Cena, & HBK/Vince are all considered to be over the three star mark in my book, w/ HHH Vs Cena being one of my favorite matches ever and my personal MOTN.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No one's mentioned Backlash '06 yet? Awesome show, even if it is extremely hit or miss.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Eh, I was very upset HBK wasn't in a big match. I wanted to see mr wrestlemania steal the show. Oh and I was balling my eyes out they didn't save angle/taker for mania.


He carried Vince to a legit **** match, That's above MOTN. Anyways, I heard Shawn was scheduled against Eddie at WM22, before you know, He died. Taker/Angle & Shawn/Eddie alone, would of made me cough up the $60, even $100.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> No one's mentioned Backlash '06 yet? Awesome show, even if it is extremely hit or miss.




Good main event, but everything else is forgettable.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Good main event, but everything else is forgettable.


Eh, I was a fan of the GOD tag match and RVD/Shelton, plus the opener was good. Awesome main event.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The tag match with God :lol

Best PPV of 06? There was some top PPV matches that year but most were scattered about on different shows, hard to pick. I'll go with Mania.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NO MERCY 2005 MAIN EVENTS NOW :mark:.

Legend Killer Randy Orton in WWE video packages is like Morgan Freeman in movie trailers; just the way he talks and sounds can hype up a show PERFECTLY. This No Mercy 2005 hype package is FANTASTIC with Orton being all cocky and shit. FUCK I MISS YOU LEGEND KILLER RANDY </3.

The Brock-Taker MSG Cage worked for me BIG TIME. They start off slow and you can hear whoever is recording the match talking shit about how boring it is (fuck them), then everything gets all methodical ALA Unforgiven 2002. Essentially it's the Unforgiven matchup a year later inside of a cage bar the finish, and since I adore the Unforgiven match, naturally I adore the MSG Cage as well.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

No Mercy is a good contender. Taker-Ken, Rey-Chavo and Matt-Helms all reached solid-good status, while the ME and Regal-Benoit were grasping at around the very good-great area.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (Jugdment Day 05): ******
> Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (The Great American Bash 05): ******
> 
> Out of this fucking world.


Good to see you digging all of these. Fantastic matches. GAB is right up there with Austin @ Mania 17 in terms of an individual character study. Mesmerising work by Eddie in particular.

You seen the bull rope match yet? Curious if you'll be heavily receptive towards it. I adore it personally and think its one of the smartest matches ever in terms of essentially utilising every possible aspect of the four corners stipulation to achieve the best match possible.

Agreed with No Mercy or Armageddon for show of the year btw. Benoit/Regal in particular is astounding. Judgement Day '06 is pretty great as well with the Benoit/Finlay & Mysterio/JBL double shot. May even have been a fun MNM tag on there but I'm not great with my recollection.

Speaking of MNM & Armageddon '06, the Fatal Four Way Ladder match at that event is still probably the best multiman ladder match I've seen from the company. Londrick are great as the plucky champions in their biggest defence to date, Regal & Taylor are wonderful as the timid veterans just relying on pure violence to win them the match and MNM/Hardy's have the familiarisation with the gimmick and work some fun sequences. Helps that the match feels more harrowingly violent as well for a multiman ladder match as opposed to a mere collection of visually impressive spots.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yoo Corey you still looking for the mitb 11 in good quality ?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I have Rey-JBL (JD) at ****3/4. Its shadowing of the Eddie match, two years before is just storytelling genius. I plan on writing up a LONG review that define my thoughts and tell you why it was put at such a high rating.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> yoo Corey you still looking for the mitb 11 in good quality ?


Nah I wasn't. Gamblor was.

I always forget about that Armageddon Ladder match. Like WOOLCOCK said, may just be the best multiman ladder match in company history. So much going on but all 4 teams get their chance to shine.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I always forget about that Armageddon Ladder match. Like WOOLCOCK said, may just be the best multiman ladder match in company history. So much going on but all 4 teams get their chance to shine.


Agreed. I usually loathe multiman ladder matches/TLC variants (TLC III & MITB I in addition to this are the exceptions) but this is a clear example of the ability to work a great match without playing to the disadvantages of the style. Every team has a clear role/character that ties into the match and each comes into play. Regal/Taylor are timid and rely more on brutalising their opponents and only climbing the ladder when they need to, Londrick are the energetic and fearless duo out to show they are the future of the division and retain their titles and MNM/Hardy Boyz have the reputation of being established and championship winning tag teams doing battle for the first time. The Mercury spot is obviously infamous, but throughout the match it feels genuinly chatoic and violent and not a mere propfest with lazy set ups and transitions.


As for Rey/JBL Judgement Day '06, I'm not THAT high on it but it is an excellent match and another example of how JBL was a very good worker in the correct setting. He's an absolute bully in the match, brutalising Rey at every opportunity and incorporates numerous instances of what a blatant dickhead would do to humiliate Rey and his immediate family. Not sure if the Eddie three Amigos spot or blowing a kiss in the direction of Mysterio's wife was the most cuntish thing he did all match, probably the latter.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH OH OH I FORGOT TO MENTION.

FWIW, I watched Rey Vs Eddie from 6/23/05 while absolutely blazed late last night and I didn't necessarily review it per se, I just wrote down "ALMOST FIVE STARS. GREATEST TV MATCH EVER. TOP FIVE PERFORMANCE IN WWE HISTORY FROM EDDIE. WHAT A DERANGED LUNATIC. TOP 15 WWF/WWE MATCH.". I'm considering watching it again, but man... Eddie's performance in that ...... If Batista/HHH wasn't my favorite match ever it would probably be my MOTY and a strong contender for top five of the decade.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> As for Rey/JBL Judgement Day '06, I'm not THAT high on it but it is an excellent match and another example of how JBL was a very good worker in the correct setting. He's an absolute bully in the match, brutalising Rey at every opportunity and incorporates numerous instances of what a blatant dickhead would do to humiliate Rey and his immediate family. Not sure if the Eddie three Amigos spot or blowing a kiss in the direction of Mysterio's wife was the most cuntish thing he did all match, probably the latter.


This. Also, I just want to add, JBL was the shining image of a cheap, coward, willing to do anything for victory, in the match with Eddie back at JD 2004. While at JD 2006, It's the complete opposite, He's on the offense 85% of the time, and not just attacking, completely brutalizing Mysterio while his nerve infested wife looks on in a tremendous amount of worry. The contrasting images are the quite the sight, especially when compared.

Judgement Day is JBL's PPV, 3 CLASSICS (Eddie, Cena & Mysterio), Nuff' said.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think you being under the influnce increases your ratings for match- the last two great matches I watched hammered I gave ***** to


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Good to see you digging all of these. Fantastic matches. GAB is right up there with Austin @ Mania 17 in terms of an individual character study. Mesmerising work by Eddie in particular.


They're both entirely different matches and both of them are different from that SmackDown match I saw earlier. Such dimensions in one continuous feud is a rarity.

JD is just a flat out fight while GAB is more story-driven. I dug that they fit in a mini wrestling match in the opening minutes of GAB before delving into the Dominick plot.



> You seen the bull rope match yet? Curious if you'll be heavily receptive towards it. I adore it personally and think its one of the smartest matches ever in terms of essentially utilising every possible aspect of the four corners stipulation to achieve the best match possible.


Yep. I didn't get 'smart' from that match, really. It's always great to see two blokes beat the crap out of each other and they do it here, but there was a lot of wasted movement and awkward timing regarding certain movements.

The first time Colon went for the corners I was a bit caught off guard. I think there were a few more things I scratched my head over.

What I did love though is the uncouth manner in which they went about it, brought a good deal of realism to the match. Something I always love in matches of this era are the teases they do prior to the match itself to get the crowd going. I'd love to see a lot more of this restless animation from wrestlers in today's sport, total lack of professionalism, which makes a wrestler look even more dangerous.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

About to watch my favorite match of all time :hbk2 vs :flair wm 24


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Fluze said:


> This. Also, I just want to add, JBL was the shining image of a cheap, coward, willing to do anything for victory, in the match with Eddie back at JD 2004. While at JD 2006, It's the complete opposite, He's on the offense 85% of the time, and not just attacking, completely brutalizing Mysterio while his nerve infested wife looks on in a tremendous amount of worry. The contrasting images are the quite the sight, especially when compared.


Yeah he excels in both of those matches for different reasons. The '04 match becomes the Eddie show post blading. Not to to a disservice to JBL there, since he's perfect as the smarmy prick with no regard for Eddie's health and who tows the line between toying and prolonging the ordeal and then trying to win the match perfectly, but Eddie is such a state its hard to imagine anyone in that match messing up the spectacle and engrossing nature of the second half of the match. His performance is that spectacular and moving realistically anyone could have shined opposite him, although JBL was the picture perfect man to be working opposite in that situation.

The '06 match is more competitive although it tows the same lines of JBL pummeling the helpless champion. He works a lot more brutal and dickhead spots and really shines on top character wise. I found the finishing stretch a little bit sudden and anticlimatic, but that's a small quibble and I suppose given the way they booked Mysterio during that reign I shouldn't be surprised that the finish wasn't the most spectacular.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> They're both entirely different matches and both of them are different from that SmackDown match I saw earlier. Such dimensions in one continuous feud is a rarity.
> 
> JD is just a flat out fight while GAB is more story-driven. I dug that they fit in a mini wrestling match in the opening minutes of GAB before delving into the Dominick plot.


Yeah Judgement Day is pretty much where Eddie is obsessed and dangerous but not completely beyond one flew over the cookoo's nest level. He's meticulate and determined to hurt Mysterio but still win in a largely definitive manner to reaffirm any doubts in his mind that Mysterio is the better man. By GAB though, he's become broken and depressed and just desperate to win at any cost hence the more story and character driven narrative as Eddie plunges deeper into despair to pick up the elusive win.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Yep. I didn't get 'smart' from that match, really. It's always great to see two blokes beat the crap out of each other and they do it here, but there was a lot of wasted movement and awkward timing regarding certain movements.
> 
> The first time Colon went for the corners I was a bit caught off guard. I think there were a few more things I scratched my head over.
> 
> What I did love though is the uncouth manner in which they went about it, brought a good deal of realism to the match. Something I always love in matches of this era are the teases they do prior to the match itself to get the crowd going. I'd love to see a lot more of this restless animation from wrestlers in today's sport, total lack of professionalism, which makes a wrestler look even more dangerous.


Ah fair enough. When I said 'smart', I was emphasising more the way both men found creative ways to interrupt the other man's attempt at victory. Something as simple as Colon (think it was him) rolling to the floor so as to weaken the range of which Hansen can freely move and then later on Hansen just using his tremendous weight in clinging to the ropes and forcing a weakened Colon to basically drag Hansen in addition to his own weight. Simple and little touches like that instead of the standard cut offs just added a sense of realism and self awareness by both guys that added to the overall spectacle.

Good to see you did enjoy it though. Hansen is a monster in it and sells as well on the defensive as he does brutalising Colon on the offensive. The Cage match is well worth checking out btw to conclude their program. They work a more escape orientated match well and its a masterclass by Hansen who is largely on the defensive all match and scrambles for ways to regain control and dictate the pace. Absolutely filthy headbutt by Colon to Hansen as well, looked straight out of a Tijuana bar fight.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

^^ That's one of my favorites 2, especiialy the ending


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Glad to see others are starting to big up the Judgment Day match between Eddie and Rey. Felt like I was alone since most of the praise seemed to go for 23/6 and GAB. I really started appreciating the SD match but I need to rewatch the rest of them including the cage match to get a definitive opinion on them.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Whilst we're on the subject of Eddie/JBL '04, do people still hate the ending to Judgement Day? I know I've seen people in the past cast judgement on it and label it a poor finish but in terms of context I thought it was the perfect way to end the match. JBL really couldn't afford to lose given it was his first big match in his newfound push up the card and the Eddie blading disaster really hindered him as he'd surely have struggled to be credible losing to Eddie in the state he was in and the timing was terrible to take the belt off of Eddie and the blading incident catapulted the match and Eddie's stock with the fans into newfound levels given how amazing it was to see him still standing.

The way it played out Eddie got to brutalise JBL and gain a small measure of revenge for everything JBL did to him and his family/culture during the build up and JBL had a great heat tactic to demand a rematch on the basis he didn't defintively lose and could argue Eddie took the coward's way out. It led to a conclusive and definitive rematch where a title change made logical sense and could satisfactorily end the program in a way that benefitted both parties.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm getting on that CAGE MATCH later tonight. HELL, since I've been on my 2005 shit w/ three PPVs left to go, I might as well check out the best of the best when it comes to TV matches and do a definitive 2005 list ALA C2D to show love to what I feel is WWE's best year for in ring work ever on a week to week basis, mainly because of Rey/Eddie/Benoit killing it on a week to week basis, Hunter being in the midst of another prime year, Flair beginning to sprout out the OLD TIMEY FLAIR, Cena & Batista growing as main eventers, Big Show getting in some good work, HBK getting in some good work, Angle getting in some good work when he wasn't being a useless POS like in some of the Cena matches, Orton & Taker killing each other, HBL heeling it up, & so many more reasons.

If I did a top 100 WWF/WWE matches ever, 2005 would more than likely have more love than any other year than perhaps 97 or 00/01. Every few weeks there was a fucking awesome match, & every PPV bar one or two had a ballin' match that tore the fucking house down. I gotta stop doing lists that consist of matches I love though, everybody's going to think I'm not overly critical and that I give good ratings to everything then FFS .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*"Mr. Wrestlemania" Shawn Michaels vs " The Nature Boy" Ric Flair wrestlemania 24*

- On a perfect night in Orlando, FL a masterpiece took place. Many say wresting is an art, well this was a perfect example. IMO the best vs the second best as JR would say "1 and 1a" took to battle. The story was did FLair still have it, threaten by retire could he still bring it on the biggest stage against the heartbreak kid. THE MAN of the 80s taking on the MAN of the 90s. Clash of Gods. The match is magical because you could feel the emotion through the TV. HBK trying to get the very best out of flair for the very last time. Flair went out there with his classic blue attire, his same antics we all love and brought it for a 50+ year old me. HBk classical "I love you" was a prefect ending for a perfect match.
******* for me

Edit: Im no where as good at writng reviews as the likes of Corey,Cody,Evan, Woodlock, Big Z etc but I hope you guys could tell how match I love this match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think my top 50 2005 matches list could've still been far better. Hell, I might have been able to stretch it out to 100 with ease. There were still so many good matches that were left out. ONLY 2 EDDIE-REY MATCHES MADE IT! On a whole, I really underrated Eddie as those two were also the only matches of his in the list. Per usual, Benoit ruled with 14 matches, more than anyone - followed by Orton at 11.

I don't mind the JD 04 finish anymore. Rewatched it a while back and am very high on it now. ★★★★½. Is getting DQed at Judgment Day Eddie's thing similar to JBL making others bleed?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Yeah 05 is stacked! Match quality is great. Who gets MOTY? 

I go with HBK/Angle WM 21. *****	for me. You can also make a case for trips/Batista HIAC.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

NYR' Chamber Match - ****3/4 (2005 MOTY for me)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Either the NYR chamber or HHH/Batista HIAC for me. Watched the chamber match again recently in my project and it still held up well (*****1/2*), haven't seen the HIAC for a while.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd like to here everybody thoughts of hbk/flair mania 24 ? AM I crazy for having it at ***** ?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Eddie/Rey 6/23/05 is the MOTY for me, by a fair margin as well. Hardy/Edge Unforgiven would be top three alongside HHH/Flair in the Cage most likely. I think the 12/30 Mysterio/Batista vs MNM tag & Hardy/Edge Summerslam '05 might be in my top ten as well, though I'm likely in the minority there.

I like HHH/Batista plenty enough and as far as modern day WWE main event feud enders go its a pretty great effort on top of solidifying Batista as the main event attraction of the brand. Still, the other matches just appeal and feel more engrossing to me and I'd say the likes of Hardy, Mysterio & Eddie perform better in the respective matches and just appeal to my tastes more preferably than HHH/Batista.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Looking back, 2005 was a fucking STACKED year from both a storyline and ring-work standpoint.

- Batista/HHH
- Cena/JBL
- Angle/HBK
- Edge/Matt
- Eddie/Rey
- Taker/Orton
- Hogan/HBK
- HHH/Flair
- Cena/Jericho

Were all top quality feuds. A good mix of main event feuds and an amazing set of undercard feuds. They really utilized the deep roster at the time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You're not crazy for having HBK/Flair at *****, redskins. Wrestling is subjective so you can rate it whatever the hell you want.  I haven't seen it since it aired in all honestly but watching it live I thought it was incredibly emotional and a fantastic showing for old man Flair. **** 1/2 is what I gave it then.

Trips/Batista is my 2005 MOTY with Cena/JBL and probably one of the Angle/Michaels matches trailing it (been years for that series), although I haven't seen Eddie/Rey 6/23 or the Edge/Hardy Cage match yet. Hell, I haven't even seen the Orton/Taker HIAC either. haha. Not to mention not seeing either HHH/Flair contest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2005 definitely has an awesome collection of MOTYC matches. Just a shame SD outside of Undertaker/Orton and Eddie/Rey was pretty much god awful, so much so I actually stopped watching for about 6 months following WM.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

WCW Super Brawl VI

I'm converting all of my old recorded tapes into digital files. I'm starting with my oldest one. 


_
Falls Count Anywhere:_
*Public Enemy vs. The Nasty Boys*

This was a fun way to start the show. You have Dusty Rhodes talking about Plunder on commentary and you have two teams just beating he total shit out of each other. Credit goes to Public Enemy as they were taking all of the big bumps. I believe when all was said and done (and it didn't take more than 10 minutes) 3 tables were broken, Grunge was pile driven onto a garbage can, and each person took at least 10 shots to the head with some sort of weapon. This was total chaos that lasted for about 8 minutes and it was awesome. I first saw this when I was six and I've probably seen this 20 times since but it's still awesome. 
***3/4*

_WCW Television Championship/Diamond Doll/$6.6 Million Match:_
*Diamond Dallas Page vs. Johnny B. Badd w/Diamond Doll*

Significantly better than this has any right to be. DDP wasn't all that great at this point in his career and Mero was never very good. However they used a really basic formula and they put on a good match. Dallas played a good heel here as he was constantly arguing with Kimberly since she was his old manager. He also took as many short cuts as he could in order to get the win. It was really basic stuff but it was done well and it made he match work. Mero was a super generic babyface but the crowd responded to his comebacks and he brought the sense of desperation that a babyface needs for a comeback to work.
***3/4
*
_
WCW Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Harlem Heat vs. Sting and Lex Luger(c)*

So the winners of this match were going to face The Road Warriors later on. Luger had done something to piss them off and they had been on the record saying that they would make sure Sting and Luger retained. Basically Luger and Sting were champions but Luger was on the verge of a heel turn. This dynamic was shown early on in the match but after a few minutes Luger was playing the face in peril that was trying to make the hot tag to Sting. Booker T was good when he was working the control segment, seeing him miss an elbow drop and do the Spinarooni to get up was pretty awesome. His offense was good. Stevie Ray's was much more forgettable. The ending was strange since Luger never made the tag but they won due to interference anyway. The match wasn't bad but it's nothing memorable either. 
****


_United States Championship Match:_
*The One Man Gang vs. Konan(c)*

I was hoping this would be a hidden gem that was great but that I didn't appreciate as a kid. It wasn't. Konan's offense wasn't nearly explosive enough to make this a good match. It was also very sloppy at times, he would do this moves from the top rope but so much of it looked terrible. He also had a terrible botch where he hit a dropkick and didn't come close to the One Man Gang. The One Man Gang's lengthy control segments were also really boring. I liked an offensive spurt from Konan at the beginning but that's where the positives end.
*1/2**



_"I Respect You" Strap Match:_
*Kevin Sullivan w/Jimmy Hart vs. Brian Pillman*

Well this is the famous "I Respect You, Booker Man" match. I don't think this lasted more than a minute but man I wish they had wrestled a full match because it was a crazy fight. Pretty incredible moment but it did ruin this match.
*No Rating*


_"I Respect You" Strap Match:_
*Arn Anderson vs. Kevin Sullivan w/Jimmy Hart*

Another short match but it was a fun brawl. They beat the shit out of each other, Arn was a badass, and Sullivan just seemed like an evil genius. The ending would have been cool if I didn't know this was the beginning of the feud that would spawn the "Alliance to rid the World of Hulkamania" and lead into one of the worst matches ever. That being said this was pretty awesome for 5 minutes.
***1/2*


_WCW Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Road Warriors vs. Sting and Lex Luger(c)*

Luger's changing character created a really confusing dynamic. I wouldn't say that either team was playing a face or a heel team. Luger had done something to piss of The Road Warriors and he was afraid of what they would do to him. Along with the rift between Sting and Luger this had some really interesting dynamics. I think it might have been too much to make this match work. The rift between Sting and Luger wasn't really acknowledged and it was a face vs face match where neither team really acted like faces. Strange, but not bad, match.
***1/2 *


_
Steel Cage Match for the WCW Championship Match:_
*Randy Savage(c) w/Elizabeth vs. Ric Flair w/Women*

Flair starts off with some serious stalling as he takes his time getting into the ring. I remember being so angry as a 6 year old watching this and seeing Flair refuse to start the match. As a kid he was outside the ring for what seemed like hours. In actuality it was maybe 3 minutes. Flair also gets bonus points for punching the ref in the face for no reason early on in the match (great selling by the ref as well). This was really good, Savage took some amazing bumps into the cage and played a great babyface. Flair played the heel as well as he always does. I love watching these guys wrestle each other and they had a bunch of good matches in WCW. This is about on par with everything else that they did, which is nowhere near their Mania match but still really good.
****1/2 *

_
Steel Cage Match:_
*Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant w/Jimmy Hart and Kevin Sullivan *

As a young child this was THE match. Hulk Hogan was the most well known wrestler in the world and basically a super hero for anyone under the age of 6. The Giant pretty much says everything, I had no idea exactly who he was but it was pretty obvious what he looked like anyway. They were meeting inside a Steel Cage which was also the coolest thing ever for a young child. As a 5 year old this was the match that I sat through the rest of the show for. So 17 years later it's really cool to go back and be able to watch this. 

So this is your basic Hulk Hogan match. Hulk got in an offensive spurt early on in the match but that didn't last for long as the Giant quickly took control of the match and began his control segment. Hogan had a couple of fake comebacks but a large majority of the match was the The Giant in total control. Comeback, bodyslam, leg drop, climb out of the cage, and then Hogans wins. Every wrestling man has seen this before. 
***1/4 *​

So overall this wasn't the greatest wrestling show I've ever seen like it used to be but it was still an enjoyable show. Flair/Savage is certainly worth a watch and the opener was a lot of fun as well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're not crazy for having HBK/Flair at *****, redskins. Wrestling is subjective so you can rate it whatever the hell you want.  I haven't seen it since it aired in all honestly but watching it live I thought it was incredibly emotional and a fantastic showing for old man Flair. **** 1/2 is what I gave it then.
> 
> Trips/Batista is my 2005 MOTY with Cena/JBL and probably one of the Angle/Michaels matches trailing it (been years for that series), although I haven't seen Eddie/Rey 6/23 or the Edge/Hardy Cage match yet. Hell, I haven't even seen the Orton/Taker HIAC either. haha. Not to mention not seeing either HHH/Flair contest.


Call me Greg , yes Im a Washington redskins fan if you know the nfl, but I have no clue why I chose the name lol

Eddie/Rey 6/23 is probably match of the year of 2005. Im not that high on hhh/Batista as most are and thought hbk/angle was MOTN


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have the Flair/hBK WM24 match at ****3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Trips/Batista is the ultimate WWE Main Event Blowoff match (FUCK Austin/HHH), so it's only fitting that it would receive my vote as MOTY as well as being my favorite match ever. However, I can name a whole handful of matches that I would have no problem with anybody putting over HHH/Batista, the big one being Eddie/Rey from 6/23 as it's pretty much the ultimate character study of Eddie Guerrero. There are just so many matches from 2005 that go under the radar due to the year being so stacked such as the HHH/Benoit matches on RAW.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Yeah 05 is stacked! Match quality is great. Who gets MOTY?
> 
> I go with HBK/Angle WM 21. *****	for me. You can also make a case for trips/Batista HIAC.


HHH/Batista HIAC is my MOTY for 2005. Closely followed by the Hardy/Edge cage match.

HBK/Angle I have at *****1/4*, would probably be in my top 10 matches for 2005.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I consider it to be the GOAT year in the WWE for a reason.

It's fucking FANTASTIC.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I forget what I gave hbk/angle mania. I think it was around ****1/4 range, iit was the beginning of Annoying Angle


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

It's my favorite year in the WWE.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

All this 2005 talk has me suddenly intrigued to do a 2005 mini-project of it's best matches. It'll give me something to do this weekend.

HBK/Angle WM
Orton/Taker WM
MITB I WM
Eddie/Rey JD
Eddie/Rey Smackdown 6/23
HBK/Angle Vengeance
Cena/Christian/Jericho Vengeance
Rey/Eddie GAB
Hogan/HBK Summerslam
Cena/Jericho Summerslam
Orton/Taker Summerslam
Matt/Edge Unforgiven
Benoit/Orlando/Christian/Booker No Mercy
Orton/Taker No Mercy
Batista/Eddie No Mercy
Matt/Edge Raw Homecoming
Flair/HHH Taboo Tuesday
Team SD/Team Raw Survivor Series
Taker/Orton Armageddeon

What else? My list excludes HHH/Batista HIAC and Cena/JBL I Quit because I just watched them this week. I know I'm missing a few Raw/SD matches but I'm drawing a blank.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton/Taker SD and JBL/Taker SD (x2 I think?). HBK/Shelton from Raw was 05 right?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH/Benoit Gold Rush Tournament
HHH/Benoit "Pick Your Poison"
Batista/Benoit RAW
Regal/Benoit Velocity
Flair/HHH LMS

& A Million more.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

You're missing Elimination Chamber

EDIT: and Orton/Christian (2/14/2005)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Taker vs. Orton SD 9/16
MNM vs. Batista & Rey SD 12/16 & 12/30
HBK vs. Shelton RAW 5/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2005 is probably the most polarizing year for me in WWE history. On one hand, the highs of that year in terms of feuds and matches were top notch. SO many great feuds and lots of classic matches. On the other hand, television was a painful torture tactic. Smackdown really did not have much redeeming qualities outside of Orton/Undertaker, and RAW consisted of John Cena putting on a picaresque performance of how not to be a good babyface. 2005 also had some questionable booking decisions throughout the year, such as the destruction of Christian, the post-HHH Batista stuff, and John Cena being way too powerful. In addition, the midcard titles seriously dropped off in significance from 2004.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Big Z said:


> Orton/Taker SD and JBL/Taker SD (x2 I think?). HBK/Shelton from Raw was 05 right?





The Beast Incarnate said:


> HHH/Benoit Gold Rush Tournament
> HHH/Benoit "Pick Your Poison"
> Batista/Benoit RAW
> Regal/Benoit Velocity
> ...





Matt_Yoda said:


> You're missing Elimination Chamber
> 
> EDIT: and Orton/Christian (2/14/2005)





Jack Evans 187 said:


> Taker vs. Orton SD 9/16
> MNM vs. Batista & Rey SD 12/16 & 12/30
> HBK vs. Shelton RAW 5/2


Thanks.

Also what is the general consensus of Show/JBL Barbed Wire Steel Cage?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IDK what the general consensus is, but it's a great main event as I have it at **** 1/2*. Won't make any "best ofs" due to 2005 being completely fucking stacked, but I thought that it worked well as a WWE Main event cage complete with two big guys clubbing the shit out of each other and it playing up to the continuous gimmick throughout JBL's title reign that he always escapes from title matches, but this time there is no escape (see the ending, loved the ingenuity of the entire thing as I felt it played perfectly to the JBL's character) for JBL as he's locked in a barbed wire steel cage with the door barred shut and the Big Show seems PISSED. 

It's pretty fucking good if I do say so myself.

Come to think of it, the ending is borderline hilarious with Big Show breaking a steel chain with his bare hands and shit. With his SKILLET LIKE HANDS. THAT'S LIKE A SKILLET HITTING YOUR CHEST WHEN HE CHOPS YOU.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I thought it was solid but nothing special, I thought that the stipulation hurted the match more than benefited it.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I love that JBL/Big Show match, No Way Out 2005 was one of 3 wrestling DVD's my town's one video store had and when they closed up the owner tried to sell it to me for $20. 

I don't like the match that much...


It should have been on Big Show's DVD though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Elimination Chamber NYR
Orton/Christian RAW 2/14
Show/JBL NWO
HHH/Benoit RAW 3/14
HBK/Angle WM
Orton/Taker WM
MITB I WM
HBK/Shelton RAW 5/2
HHH/Benoit RAW 5/2
Regal/Benoit Velocity 5/9
Eddie/Rey JD
Eddie/Rey Smackdown SD 6/23
HBK/Angle Vengeance
Cena/Christian/Jericho Vengeance
JBL/Taker SD 6/14
Rey/Eddie GAB
JBL/Taker SD 7/26
Hogan/HBK Summerslam
Cena/Jericho Summerslam
Orton/Taker Summerslam
Orton/Taker SD 9/12
Matt/Edge Unforgiven
Benoit/Orlando/Christian/Booker No Mercy
Orton/Taker No Mercy
Batista/Eddie No Mercy
Matt/Edge Raw Homecoming
Flair/HHH Taboo Tuesday
Team SD/Team Raw Survivor Series
Taker/Orton Armageddeon
Flair/HHH Survivor Series
MNM vs. Batista & Rey SD 12/16 
MNM vs. Batista & Rey SD 12/30

This is going to be fun :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You want a 2005 list, here's my top 50: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/12427548-post12745.html

I'm also missing a few gems such as Eddie vs Angle a few weeks after Wrestlemania 21 and the rest of the Eddie/Rey series and Eddie/Benoit from July plus some more but most of what you need to see appears there.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Good list Choke2Death. (Y) Not sure I saw that when you originally posted it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Has anybody noticed the new flux of full matches upload on YT recently ? hopefully wwe does not crack down on it again


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just realized Cena vs. JBL I Quit and Masato Tanaka vs. Mike Awesome from ONS are missing from the list. Also nothing from Backlash (haven't seen it yet) but heard great things about Edge vs. Benoit LMS and Jericho vs. Shelton.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just gave Punk/Orton a rewatch from WM 27. Still have this at ***1/2. Definitely not bad, but I honestly thought these guys would have had an even better match then they actually had. Thought this woulda been a ****	rating.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> Has anybody noticed the new flux of full matches upload on YT recently ? hopefully wwe does not crack down on it again


I'm worried about the house show matches. I saw a Henry v. Sheamus from Italy yesterday that was pretty fun. There's a couple of Shield tags and other shit up as well, I think.



WWE 2005:

1. Rey/Eddie 6/23
2. Rey/Eddie JD
3. Hardy/Edge CAGE
4. Rey/Eddie GAB
5. probably HHH/Flair Cage, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Smackdown today.


Warning contains spoilers




Bryan v Swagger - ***

As good as a 6 minute match as your likely to see, great pacing as you would expect and hard hitting, Bryan's aggression is great to see and him busting out the ROH stomps was awesome, he's on fire at the moment, hopefully this leads to a big singles push.

The Shield v Orton/Sheamus/Kofi - ***1/2

Another damn good match for the Shield, love the way they work together, they all have different elements that just work so well, just great fast paced action, the RKO on the floor was sweet and excellent last couple of minutes leading to another big win for the Shield.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Has anybody noticed the new flux of full matches upload on YT recently ? hopefully wwe does not crack down on it again


Def a lot of good ones up there. Some even have full PPVS & RAW/Smackdown episodes. Which is awesome.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I want to put together a bit of a mega 'best of/must see' playlist of Triple H matches. So far these come to mind, I've no particular ratings but I'd consider them all ***1/2


vs Cacus Jack Raw 1997
vs Rock Summer Slam 98
vs Rock Rebellion 99
vs Steve Austin No Mercy 99
vs Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 00
vs Cactus Jack No Way Out 00
vs Jericho Raw April 00
vs Rock Judgement Day 00
vs Jericho Fully Loaded 00
vs Benoit No Mercy 00
vs Austin No Way Out 01
vs Taker WrestleMania X-Seven
/Austin vs Jericho/Benoit Raw May 01
vs HBK Summer Slam 02
vs HBK vs Benoit WrestleMania XX
vs HBK vs Benoit Backlash 04
vs Benoit Iron Man Raw 04
vs Batista Vengeance 05
vs Flair Taboo Tuesday 05
vs Flair Survivor Series 05
vs Edge vs Cena Backlash 06
vs Orton No Mercy 07
vs Cena Night of Champions 08
vs Jeff Hardy No Mercy 08
vs Jeff Hardy vs Edge Armageddon 08
vs Cena Raw Jan. 09
vs Taker WrestleMania 27
vs Taker WrestleMania 28
vs Lesnar SummerSlam '12
vs Lesnar Extreme Rules '13




Honourable or notable mentions:

vs Steve Austin IYH 11 Buried Alive
Summer 1997 series with Mick Foley
vs Owen Hart WrestleMania XIV 
Fully Loaded 98 & 99 matches with The Rock
vs X-Pac Backlash 99 (some good neck work in this)
vs Vince Armageddon 99 (beats Vince to a pulp)
vs Bulldog, Kane, Mankind, Rock, Big Show 6-way Unforgiven 99 (first WWF title PPV win)
vs Angle vs Rock Summer Slam 00
vs Jeff Hardy (either Raw or Smackdown! April 01 ?)
Royal Rumble 02
vs Jericho Judgement Day 02
Elimination Chamber Survivor Series 02
vs HBK Bad Blood 04
w/HBK vs Edge/Orton New Years Revolution 07


These have to go somewhere:
vs Henry Godwin IYH 5 Seasons Beatings (gets press slammed into pig shit)
vs Ultimate Warrior WrestleMania XII (debut at Mania squash match)
vs Sgt Slaughter IYH 19 d-X (snooze fest so boring on such a poor PPV it's hare to believe anyone thought it would be a good idea!)
Also, his 2003 matches with Scott Steiner and Goldberg were probably some of his worst ever.



I'm sure I left out a few but there's some excellent matches there particularly around 2000-2001 before his first quad injury but none are 5 star classics imo. I'd agree with Cornette that Triple H is the guy who works with the guy that draws the money. My favourite of all time Triple H match is probably the Royal Rumble 2000 Street Fight from Madison Sq Garden. I think it's fair to say Trips' worked best with Foley,Austin, Rock, HBK and Jeff Hardy.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> I want to put together a bit of a mega 'best of/must see' playlist of Triple H matches. So far these come to mind, I've no particular ratings but I'd consider them all ***1/2
> 
> 
> vs Cacus Jack Raw 1997
> ...




Nice list, yes 2003 match quality for HHH was terrible. Don't forget nash as well. Pretty sure his best match that year was with Kane on raw. Title vs mask. I have that at ***1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd personally throw in his matches with Cena at Mania 22 & the Last Man Standing with Orton from RAW 09 in there. And if you're including tags, definitely the DX vs. Legacy series from '09, Breaking Point & Summerslam in particular.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching some Bret tonight as opposed to going to a party with my boys (tired as hell though) but anyways

bret/taker One night only ****1/4

bret/davey boy ss 92 - This is such a weird match to me, I know im gonna get hate for it but its so boring, I cant sit through it. His bouts with owen and stoen cold and even perfect are MUCH better than this. Their IYH is also MUCH better


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Haven't seen the Orton LMS from Raw09. I quite liked the DX/Legacy HIAC match now that I think of it.

Have tried to bleach all HHH v Nash matches from my brain


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Be curious to see what you think of this stuff if you watch it/have watched it

HHH/X-Pac/Radicalz v Rock/Foley/Too Cool 2/7/00
HHH/X-pac/Big Show v. Rock/Foley/Kane 2/21/00
HHH&Benoit v. Rock&Jericho 4/24/00
HHH/Jericho 6/12/00
HHH/Rock/Angle 6/26/00
HHH/Eugene SummerSlam 04
HHH/Edge/Benoit 11/29/04
HHH/Benoit 3/14/05
HHH/Big Show NYR and 2/13/06 (< never seen these myself. well I would have seen NYR in 2007 or something but IDR it)
HHH/Michaels 3/27/06 (kind of surprised you don't have the Raw 03 match there, either, even if I don't really care for it)
Umaga feud in 2007


I agree with watching the DX/Legacy tag from SummerSlam. I didn't like how that wound being at the end, but the meat of the match was solid. I thought Breaking Point and HIAC were total garbage, though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

breaking point is horrendous stay away far away


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Bret's three title matches with Taker were excellent, shame none had a clean finish. If he could still wrestle he could've done a Mania streak match.

Bret v Bulldog is a perfect example of a wrestler being carried as Davey had been getting high with Jim Neidhart. The IYH match has blood which is an extra...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

loved HHH/Jericho from raw 2000


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Jack vs DB was pretty nice for the time it was given.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> breaking point is horrendous stay away far away


LIES.  Awesome match imo. Brye's even a bigger fan than I am.



swagger_ROCKS said:


> Jack vs DB was pretty nice for the time it was given.


Bryan was ON FIRE tonight, it was so fuckin awesome. Total machine mode. Did you catch the main event? SUPERMAN PUNCH FROM REIGNS :mark:


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Be curious to see what you think of this stuff if you watch it/have watched it
> 
> HHH/X-Pac/Radicalz v Rock/Foley/Too Cool 2/7/00
> HHH/X-pac/Big Show v. Rock/Foley/Kane 2/21/00
> ...



I can remember watching the Radicalz match at the time. Is that when Eddie popped his elbow with a frog splash? Pretty sure I liked it 13 years ago anyway cause I liked the initial introduction of the Radicalz. I thought I included the SS00 triple threat. Not a great match in itself but the sex triangle with Steph and Kurt made it. Left out the HBK Raw 03 by mistake.

Haven't seen/can't remember the other TV matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forever Unchained said:


> I can remember watching the Radicalz match at the time. Is that when Eddie popped his elbow with a frog splash? Pretty sure I liked it 13 years ago anyway cause I liked the initial introduction of the Radicalz. I thought I included the SS00 triple threat. Not a great match in itself but the sex triangle with Steph and Kurt made it. Left out the HBK Raw 03 by mistake.
> 
> Haven't seen/can't remember the other TV matches.


Eddie is already injured by the time of that tag match, he's not in the match (b/c of the injury) but gets a cheap shot in from ringside. HHH/Rock/Angle 6/26/00 is a different match than the one at SummerSlam, and I like it way, way, *WAY* more (I don't even like the SummerSlam one at all to begin with). Might be my straight-up favourite 3-way WWE ever put on.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I need some more Eddie in my life, recs for some Eddie gems?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Preparing for Yeah1993 to pimp the fuck out of Eddie vs. Big Show from Smackdown '04 now. 

Since you said gems I'll throw out a random one. 

vs. Rhyno - Smackdown 10/16/03. Great Rhyno performance, tbhayley.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Eddie's WCW matches.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I spent quite some time on these reviews, So hopefully enjoyment is fulfilled when you read them. 



> *Dolph Ziggler vs. Rey Mysterio - SummerSlam 2009​*Solid, back and fourth match with lengthy time for an opener. Rey is on the ball and keeps his shit to a tee, all through the match. That springboard, moonsault off the top move? was executed in organismic visual. His opposition, Ziggler, wasn't there yet in terms of crafting an art in matches and his reliance on flashy stuff is kinda over the top. Wait, scratch that, Ziggler's still not there, He's still a duplicate John Morrison with no sense of taken in, psychology and storytelling as in-ring aspects. I know i sound like a hater and in harsh manner, but it's the truth, You never hear people blubber on about his in ring technicality, high-flying, brawling, move execution, psychology and storytelling. It's all about SELL, SELL, SELL!!!, which is a main plus in a match when done right, but isn't the back bone to making it OVERLY good. I'm rambling now, Sorry. Back to the match, Ziggler had some nice individual spots, but looked lost in transition when some points came about. Still solid as fuck though, enough near-falls to keep the audience on their feet, possibly too much reliance on over the top MOVEZ and SPOTZ. But still. ***1/4





> *CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy - Smackdown 8/25/2009 (Cage Match)​*I was in shocked expression, when i rewatched this match. The crowd investment within it is quite a surprise, considering such youngings involved (Jeff & Punk). It's nice to see the audience so emotionally moved by a match, specifically in the era of poop jokes, dance offs and lame nature of the product. Hell, I even saw a couple fans in tears and not tears of joy either, These were Batista-vacants-world-title cries. Stuff the crowd, To the match now. This definitely wasn't your average spotty cage match, with the rule of building to them, thrown out the window. In literal manner, The cage wasn't used as a factor for performing spots, but rather a way to express the hatred, violence and brutality, both competitors had withheld throughout the weeks of feuding. With the including of both performers being busted up prior, It really gave the sense that every hit, miss or fall contributed to the meaning of the WHC, The superplex felt on equal terms with any TLC bump, as far as brutality goes. Not to mention, The selling between both, that really projected these images of hurt and pain. I despise cage matches, especially the ones where escaping it, is the main objective. So it was a real shocker, that i was on my feet and cheering when the moments of escaping cage or going through the steel door were prevalent, It was a struggle between two warriors, kinda reminded me of Tony Montanna's last stand in Scarface. Punk is Sosa, Difference is, Punk is a one man army with his antics and tactics, He literally has unlimited amount of ideas to throw at his opponents and out trick them. Jeff is Tony, He goes balls out in the end, trying to put a stop to the goons/ideas directed at him, but due to his lack of diversity/guards, he falls in defeat. This match is one of a kind, and the story screams upon perfect quality, I can't go the *****. But a healthy dose of ****1/2 is acceptable.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Preparing for Yeah1993 to pimp the fuck out of Eddie vs. Big Show from Smackdown '04 now.
> 
> Since you said gems I'll throw out a random one.
> 
> vs. Rhyno - Smackdown 10/16/03. Great Rhyno performance, tbhayley.


Good shit, I always marked for some Rhino myself :clap


King Kenny said:


> Eddie's WCW matches.


Real specific lolol


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> LIES.  Awesome match imo. Brye's even a bigger fan than I am.
> 
> 
> Bryan was ON FIRE tonight, it was so fuckin awesome. Total machine mode. Did you catch the main event? SUPERMAN PUNCH FROM REIGNS :mark:


Actually no, but ah what the hell, whole show got praise as usual for the past few weeks. Reigns aka WOLF FTW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So I watched most of TLC 2012 today and Show vs Sheamus is like REALLY awesome. I used to think it was only average at best. What in the hell was my problem? Those two do no wrong vs each other. That's what a Chairs match should be. The gimmick is usually a bust. 

I love those two. So much.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm really, really drunk right now but I love the BP match between DX/Legacy. ****1/4. Awesome stuff.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Actually no, but ah what the hell, whole show got praise as usual for the past few weeks. Reigns aka WOLF FTW.






Obfuscation said:


> So I watched most of TLC 2012 today and Show vs Sheamus is like REALLY awesome. I used to think it was only average at best. What in the hell was my problem? Those two do no wrong vs each other. That's what a Chairs match should be. The gimmick is usually a bust.
> 
> I love those two. So much.


I've yet to see anything from that show. You should throw out those stars when you finish up. My recollection of te match card is TLC with Shield & Cena/Ziggler, plus what you just mentioned. 



Brye said:


> I'm really, really drunk right now but I love the BP match between DX/Legacy. ****1/4. Awesome stuff.


:hb


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


>


LOL snapped when I saw it. Sucks he was a bit pissed at the tweaking of the ankle. But love when he screams at his opponents "HUH, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN NOW, SON?". :lmao Great match Shield been delivering since day one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I've yet to see anything from that show. You should throw out those stars when you finish up. My recollection of te match card is TLC with Shield & Cena/Ziggler, plus what you just mentioned.


Only need to view Cena vs Dolph again. Unsure if that'll be any better but it was average on a first watch. Rest of the show:

Rhodes Scholars vs Mysterio/Sin Cara ~ ***** _(this was a LOT better than I remember too. Used to really dislike it, now I appreciate the work put forth and it's a good opener.)_

Antonio Cesaro vs R-Truth ~ *** _(nearly a squash IE a six minute showcase for Cesaro with the mild R-Truth comeback till it ends. As a Cesaro fan I get a kick out of it. There has been far worse matches on PPVs. No harm no foul type deal.)_

Kofi Kingston vs Wade Barrett ~ *1/2** _(CRAPPPPPPPP. Kofi busted out a third move in his arsenal; A RUSSIAN LEG SWEEP~! Barrett sucked in this too. So I don't offend anyone by only slandering Kofi...)_

The Shield vs Hell No & Ryback ~ *****3/4* _(Brilliance personified. From all aspects. I've spoken so much about this match that one should know my thoughts on it by now. Everyone excelled. Bryan probably the most via his tremendous babyface work. It's still the best Shield match since debuting. Unreal contest. Must, must be seen.)_

Eve Torres vs Naomi Knight ~ *DUD* _(Three minute divas filler. It sucked but eh. We all expected that.)_

Big Show vs Sheamus ~ ****3/4* _(SMASH EM UP! It's a slight drop down from their radical Hell in a Cell match, but replace that match being a stand out big man clobber fest with this being a very good (and awesome) big man clobber fest with chairs in the mix. Big Show continues to be a better worker than many others in the company and Sheamus ends his wonderful 2012 on PPV in grand fashion. The giant chair is a hilarious sight. Best part of the match is when Sheamus goes for a diving shoulder block off the apron and after he hits Big Show, HE (SHEAMUS) flies back further than Show did. Show's surreal size is so massive he knocks Sheamus back while putting full force into a move. :lmao How incredible is that?_

3MB vs Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, & Brooklyn Brawler ~ *DUD* _(stupid filler. If they wanted to turn Del Rio face why couldn't this have been Del Rio vs McIntyre alone? This sucked.)_

and I'll have to reserve thoughts on Dolph vs John-boy later.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Cara/Rey vs Rhodes Scholars match is so much fun. Love the ending too.

Need to rewatch that chairs match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It really is. You feel like that is what WWE is missing atm. Not only from the tag team perspective, but in general. A midcard match with established names putting on a show. You'd think that wouldn't be hard to get on PPV.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Agreed. I really think WWE should be doing more with Sandow and Rhodes. Whether it be individually or single, they're both very good, imo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Here's what I remember from TLC:

Barrett/Kofi- **3/4
Shield/Ryback and Hell No- ****1/2
Show/Sheamus- ***1/4
Cena/Dolph- ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE went into backward motion with Rhodes. Annoys me personally; what can you do, you know?

Isn't like the direction for talent atm is all wrong. Shield taking over some spots is grand and Ryback has morphed into a credible member of the upper card himself. It's not like the other heels have to fall down the rung though. Cesaro, Rhodes, Sandow - They can all remain relevant too. Why WWE doesn't try and do so is the baffling part. I've exhausted my complaints with WWE's booking for far too long. I don't need to start up again.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

BRYE AT THE BONES! :lmao

Should really watch that Shield TLC match sometime... Hell maybe even the whole show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a solid enough show. Certainly better than some from 2012. Rumble & Elimination Chamber leap out. Better than No Way Out too, I'd say.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

This 2005 project is off to a great start


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Sandow and Rhodes should be a face tag team. They were hilarious making fun of the New Age Outlaws and they seem like they have a lot of fun with each other, which I think the fans will connect to. I think they should be the ones to take the tag titles from Rollins and Reigns at the end the year.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

2005 is one of my favorite years for WWE, probably my actual favorite year for wrestling.

I really hated the 2004-2005 season (post WM XX - 21), but WrestleMania 21 totally shocked me and had me totally hooked, probably until around late October, when things started to get kind of stupid. As for MOTYC, it would take me forever to rank them, so chronologically:

Elimination Chamber - New Year's Revolution - ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. Edge - Street Fight - RAW - ****
Money in the Bank Ladder Match - ****1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle - WrestleMania 21 - ****3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Shelton Benjamin - RAW - ****
John Cena vs. JBL - Judgment Day - ****1/4
Batista vs. Triple H - Vengeance - ****1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - SmackDown - 6/23 - ****
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - SummerSlam - ****
Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels - ****
Ric Flair vs. Triple H - Taboo Tuesday - ****1/4
Team Raw vs. Team SmackDown - Survivor Series - ****

2005 was a great year for feuds, series, and storylines. As someone else mentioned, we got:

HBK/Angle
HBK/Hogan
Guerrero/Mysterio
HHH/Batista
HHH/Flair
UT/Orton
Cena/Jericho
Batista/Guerrero (a little, anyway)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Currently watching halloween havoc 1991 :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny I want a review on the Chamber of Horrors match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rewatched some stuff today and felt weird about it.

Triple H vs. Undertaker (WM 28): *****

I remember having a big argument with Yeah1993 and WOOLCOCK over this vs. Henry/Punk the following night. I haven't rewatched that, but this went down so much for me. A shell of the match they had the previous year, which I would call a legit classic. The first ten minutes of the match are just walking around the ring, I guess to utilize the cell. Then we get into the bulk of it with the drama and the callbacks. All of this I enjoy, but these guys in the ring have either all lost their heads or they spent too much time acting and too little time thinking.

First, the handling of Shawn Michaels is horrible. Second, Shawn Michaels is horrible. His actions or the progression of actions didn't make any sense. The drama was great and the visual with Triple H clinging on to the ropes in the final moments is awesome. So is Undertaker tossing the sledgehammer into the cell, but why you no make sense?

Undertaker wasn't that great in this match either. Triple H was the one pulling the load and yeah, he doesn't do that all that well. I'm not too fond of the aftermath either. So much indifference.

Still, at least it's much better than Austin/Hunter 3SOH

Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk (WM 28): ****3/4*

Really awesome WRESTLING match. The guys are stiff as fuck and do some awesome looking counter-wrestling while also pulling off an amazing story.

The Rock vs. John Cena (WM 28): ***3/4*

Slightly better than I remembered. OH THAT BEARHUG SO MUCH THE BEARHUG. The initial 3 minutes were great. The final 3 minutes where great. Crush the middle into half its length and you have a great match.

Yes, I realize that I only talked about a way to make it better instead of actually judging what they did. Well fuck what you think.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I need to stop pussyfooting around and watch the HIAC & Cena vs Rock I again. I can't ever express my opinion on each b/c I feel the two viewings a while ago isn't justified. I know I feel Cena vs Rock isn't dreadful. It's not great or even all THAT good, but it isn't a poor match like this years was outside of the callbacks.

HIAC idk anymore. I can see myself not liking it all this time around. Perhaps that's why I'm holding off. Not wanting to see another lousy Taker vs Triple H match.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I have the Vader Project #2 here, make sure to read it and leave some feedback VADER


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is #3 going to be nothing but matches vs Misawa? b/c that would rule all of the seven kingdoms.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Is #3 going to be nothing but matches vs Misawa? b/c that would rule all of the seven kingdoms.


I actually have all his Misawa matches I could find queued up already, SHIT GOT REAL FAST :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_*cue up gif of Vader launching Misawa on his head if I had it*_

Probably my favorite series of Misawa matches tied with vs Kobashi.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You should watch the 1996 Royal Rumble as a part of this project, Tanner. Vader lasts 11 minutes and he has some AWESOME exchanges with Yokozuna.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

taker/hhh HIAC is funny, I have seen it 3 times

1st live - That is was FUCKIN awsome ****************
2nd ok decent ****
3rd you look beyond match, the storytelling, the acting, the emotion and it went back up to *****
Ill give it another watch but I fear it will go down


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I watch wrestling first and foremost for the drama. That match was the worst display of drama I've ever seen. Such a garbage match. -***** completely unbearable to watch a second time.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

On the Taker-Triple H topic, Their Inserxxcetion match in 2002 is ***1/2, as far as i'm concerned. Curious to hear other's opinion on it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> I watch wrestling first and foremost for the drama. That match was the worst display of drama I've ever seen. Such a garbage match. -***** completely unbearable to watch a second time.


It wasnt THAT bad, it kept you invested


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

you know that? i had trouble sitting through it. everybody and their mother knew undertaker was winning because wwe has to make money on the 20-0 dvd that was inevitable (not knocking it, easy business sense) and with shawn/hhh's awful acting it was THAT bad.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

At bigbuxx's comments, It was underwhelming rather than garbage, as you proclaim.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader :mark:

Love the big guy, one of my all time faves for sure.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Bryan/Swagger- SD ***1/4- great match made by Bryan here, he was really impresive.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I find all of the Taker vs. DX matches severely overrated. I can see why people like them, but none are *****, IMO. I had 26 at five stars but at the bottom end, but I rewatched it last week and it went down to **** 1/2, making it the joint second or third best streak match. The fact that some argue that Wrestlemania 26 is the GOAT match in any company, ever, baffles me to no end. None of them would even make my top 5 WWE matches of all time, let alone any company, any time.

Bleh. I guess opinions are like arse holes and all that jazz.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do know i enjoy HBK/Taker - WM25 as much as any match i have watched, i really do love that one tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know how anyone could have the WM25 match at anything less than ★★★★★. A complete masterpiece.

I guess I can understand if somebody says the rest of them are overrated, though. But the only one I truly find overrated is WM27.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Taker Mania Ratings
25 - ****3/4
26 - *****
27 - ****
28 - ***1/2
29 - ***3/4 (I have only watched it once and need to watch it again.)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Taker Mania Ratings
> 25 - ****3/4
> 26 - *****
> 27 - ****
> ...


Glad I'm not the only one who prefers Taker/Shawn's WrestleMania 26 match over their WrestleMania 25 one. (Y)


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Undertaker's WM Matches since 25:

1. 25: *****
2. 26: *****
3. 29: ****1/2
4. 28: ****1/4
5. 27: ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

25 - ********************************
26 - ****3/4
27 - ****
28 - ****1/2
29 - ****1/4

All after recent re-watches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Taker Mania Ratings
> 25 - ****3/4
> 26 - *****
> 27 - ****
> ...




Taker mania ratings. (ever since I started watching) 

WM 12 vs Diesel. ***

WM 13 vs Sid. **3/4

WM 14 vs Kane. ****1/4

WM 15 vs bossman. **

WM 17 vs HHH. ****

WM 18 vs Flair. ***3/4

WM 19 vs show/train. *1/2

WM 20 vs Kane. **

WM 21 vs Orton. ****

WM 22 vs Henry. **1/4

WM 23 vs Batista. ****1/4

WM 24 vs Edge. ****1/2

WM 25 vs HBK. *****

WM 26 vs HBK. ****3/4

WM 27 vs HHH..****1/4

WM 28 vs HHH ****

WM 29 vs Punk. ****

I rate the first Taker/Kane match high for good reasons. Taker was never dominated like that, makes a good face comeback against Kane, first time it ever took more than 1 tombstone to put someone away.

I also may be the only one who prefers HHH/Taker WM 27 over 28


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Some good discussion about the Taker/HHH HIAC match. That match has gone down in my ratings on each watch for me. Got caught up in the emotion the first time around and has gradually got worse each time. I still like it, but I feel it was a little melodramatic at some points. On the contrary, I adore their WM27 bout, which has never gone down on rewatches and in fact went up a notch. Also prefer WM25 to WM26 but not by much.

Recent Taker:

WM25 - *******
WM26 - *****3/4*
WM27 - *****3/4*
WM28 - ******
WM29 - *****1/4*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wm 29 ****1/2
wm 28 *****
wm 27 ****3/4
wm 26 *****
wm 25 ****3/4
wm 24 hate it
wm 23 ****1/2
wm 22 N/A
wm 21 ****

taker/flair ***1/2

apart of the few that thinks 26>>25, I guess I need to watch wm 28 for the 4th time to get a finally say.Like ABH I feel it will go down with the next watch I hate the edge 24 one with a passion.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I still to this day say this: 

WM 27 was the ONLY time during the match where I thought the streak was over. HHH hit THREE pedigrees, countless chair shots and then the tombstone? I legit yelled the streak is fucking over, HHH fuck yourself, but taker kicked out. Amazing story telling in that match and amazing selling by Taker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker @ Mania starting with Mania 12:

WM 12 vs Diesel. ***1/2

WM 13 vs Sid. *3/4

WM 14 vs Kane. ****

WM 15 vs bossman. DUD

WM 17 vs HHH. ***3/4

WM 18 vs Flair. ****

WM 19 vs show/train. **

WM 20 vs Kane. **1/2

WM 21 vs Orton. ****1/4

WM 22 vs Henry. *3/4

WM 23 vs Batista. ****1/2

WM 24 vs Edge. ****1/4

WM 25 vs HBK. *****

WM 26 vs HBK. ****1/2

WM 27 vs HHH..***1/2

WM 28 vs HHH ****

WM 29 vs Punk. ****1/2

Edit: 



> WM 27 was the ONLY time during the match where I thought the streak was over. HHH hit THREE pedigrees, countless chair shots and then the tombstone? I legit yelled the streak is fucking over, HHH fuck yourself, but taker kicked out. Amazing story telling in that match and amazing selling by Taker.


Have said it a billion times, but that was easily the greatest streak near-fall ever, and probably will ever be unless something crazy with Cena happens. Still wouldn't put it past ***1/2 just for that and the great storytelling, but it's definitely a more memorable match for that near-fall than most of the better Mania matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Trips WM 27 is bleh personified.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive never seen a set of matches that change more with every watch, its crazy to me


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I always bring it up when the WM27 match is mentioned but that mammoth review from another forum someone posted a few months back sums up why I (and other fans of it) love that match so. I really should save the link instead of simply referring to it. :side:

@******* - Am interested to hear your thoughts on WM24 Edge/Taker since you said you weren't a fan of it. Feel free to rant if you please.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember the aforementioned review b/c of how much I disagreed with it.

:andy


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know which review your talking about, Excellent doesn't do it justice, however I feel wm 27 is for a acquired taste and some love it as do I and some hate it or think it around *** at best


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Am I the only one who didn't buy into _any_ of the nearfalls at WM27? Hell, I was barely into the match as I also got distracted by writing quite a few times on the chat for my stream that Undertaker will win while there were a few HHH marks who thought otherwise.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I always bring it up when the WM27 match is mentioned but that mammoth review from another forum someone posted a few months back sums up why I (and other fans of it) love that match so. I really should save the link instead of simply referring to it. :side:
> 
> *@******* - Am interested to hear your thoughts on WM24 Edge/Taker since you said you weren't a fan of it. Feel free to rant if you please. *


please call me Greg :lol, You know I cant never get into it, the first 15 mins feel like a eternity for it to get going, Ive made it clear im not the biggest edge fan at all, I just don't feel the same grade A storytelling I feel in the other matches. However I will say their HIAC at ss is great and edge best match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got no beef with the majority of the Undertaker vs Edge series. Only the poor TLC match. All the rest are fine - in-between good & great. Wait, never seen Judgment Day I think. Or I remember zero from it outside of the finish. So scratch that. Can't comment. 

WrestleMania, Backlash, SummerSlam. Those work.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The WM27 HHH/Taker is definitely a marmite match, it's either rated really highly or very averagely. I wouldn't say being engrossed in the near falls and not thinking the streak was going to end would be the sole reason to dislike that or any streak match, since not once did I think Punk had the win at WM29 but I still loved that one.



redskins25 said:


> please call me Greg :lol, You know I cant never get into it, the first 15 mins feel like a eternity for it to get going, Ive made it clear im not the biggest edge fan at all, I just don't feel the same grade A storytelling I feel in the other matches. However I will say their HIAC at ss is great and edge best match


That's cool, I haven't watch that match in an age, must be around three years so I don't remember much except for the finish. Still rated it pretty highly though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm gonna continue to call you *******, simply because ******* is a way cooler name than Greg.  Also I'm pretty sure Greg is already taken by The Lady Killer.

BUT to keep this on topic, Bryan's show of rage from last night really makes me hopeful he's gonna get a big push this year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker's selling in that WM27 match is oscar worthy IMO.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I got no beef with the majority of the Undertaker vs Edge series. Only the poor TLC match. All the rest are fine - in-between good & great. Wait, never seen Judgment Day I think. Or I remember zero from it outside of the finish. So scratch that. Can't comment.
> 
> WrestleMania, Backlash, SummerSlam. Those work.




Edge Taker series was AWESOME. 

WM: ****1/2
Backlash: ****
TLC: ***1/2
HIAC: ****1/2 top 5 HIAC match IMO


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I do know i enjoy HBK/Taker - WM25 as much as any match i have watched, i really do love that one tbh.


Same. Just amazing. Defo 5*. I got everything after a severe dip though. 26 and 27 I've only watched twice compared to 25 watching 15-25 times. As mentioned earlier, I'd never torture myself to watch 28 again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never want to watch Taker vs Edge TLC ever again. I'll just stick with that awesome Singapore cane five way match from the same PPV where Big Show goes insane on everyone. Now that's worth seeing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> BUT to keep this on topic, Bryan's show of rage from last night really makes me hopeful he's gonna get a big push this year.


On the topic of SD last night, I just finished watching it. That Sandow/Sheamus segment was golden. Barrett showed more personality than he usually does in the opener and I checked out the three main matches.

Bryan vs Swagger - ★★¾ (A bit too short but bring on this more intense Bryan and he should steal shows all around the country for the rest of the year)

Jericho vs Big Show - ★★ (Felt kinda plain and other than the top rope move countered into a chop, not much is memorable. And I can swear that I've seen that count-out finish a year ago in a match between these two. A Beat the Clock match if I remember it right)

Orton/Kingston/Sheamus vs The Shield - ★★★¼ (Another quality Shield match and infinitely better than that lackluster WM match. Orton was great and he's really fucking over. Sheamus' hot tag was GREAT stuff and The Shield continue to work great as a team. Plus another good finishing stretch. Not much more I could ask for)


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You should watch the 1996 Royal Rumble as a part of this project, Tanner. Vader lasts 11 minutes and he has some AWESOME exchanges with Yokozuna.


I have that near the top of the list as what to watch next, hopefully I can watch it today between SEC Baseball and the girlfriend wanting to see a fucking awful movie (Hangover III) but hopefully I can maybe make a small post today, eventually.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't go to see Hangover III; watched it last night with my girlfriend & a few friends and it was AWFUL. 

Do you want to know what match is fucking weird & hard to really critique? The Ortons Vs Undertaker @ No Mercy 2005. On one hand, the pace is extremely strange and somewhat slow, but I appreciate the strategy that the Ortons employ to try and take out Undertaker... I... LIKE... This? I think?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Haha. I enjoyed the Handicap Casket Match as well, gave it *** 1/2 and definitely liked the Orton's strategy. Fun match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know, I used to be able to throw four stars at every single Orton/Taker match in 2005 but on the watches for 2005 that I have now, here's what we have so far;

Wrestlemania: ******
Summerslam: **** 3/4*
Smackdown: *N/A (Will Watch Later)*
No Mercy: **** 1/2*
Armageddon: *N/A (Will Watch When I Get To Armageddon)*

Don't get me wrong, the series is still ballin' as fuck, I'm just starting to think that the Christian series happens to be Orton's best linear opponent and not The Undertaker at this point.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm gonna continue to call you *******, simply because ******* is a way cooler name than Greg.  Also I'm pretty sure Greg is already taken by The Lady Killer.
> 
> BUT to keep this on topic, Bryan's show of rage from last night really makes me hopeful he's gonna get a big push this year.


:lol :lol no problem, wasn't aware anybody else real name was Greg on here. Anyways I only got to see Bryan/Swagger yesterday **3/4 hope they don't turn him heel and just go for the more aggressive bryan route. How was shield/orton and etc ?

Yea I think I made a good choice and went to see Fast 6 as opposed to hangover. I'm not that high on the second either, the first is a classic though :lmao. MAy see it tonite just to say I did though


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

From what I've seen of Orton/Taker:

Wrestlemania - *** 1/2 (match gets overrated imo, but I still like it, especially the nearfalls and counters at the end)
Smackdown 9/16 - *** 3/4 (really well structured and an awesome touch with the casket)
No Mercy - *** 1/2

Haven't seen Summerslam since it aired and never seen the HIAC.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Don't go to see Hangover III; watched it last night with my girlfriend & a few friends and it was AWFUL.
> 
> Do you want to know what match is fucking weird & hard to really critique? The Ortons Vs Undertaker @ No Mercy 2005. On one hand, the pace is extremely strange and somewhat slow, but I appreciate the strategy that the Ortons employ to try and take out Undertaker... I... LIKE... This? I think?


God I really don't want to.

But anyways, saw some 2005 discussion a few pages back, and I would say my MOTY from 2005 has to be Flair/HHH Taboo Tuesday. I love this match so fucking much. Honorable mentions would go to Batista/HHH HIAC, Flair/HHH LMS, and Mysterio/Guerrero 6/23/05. Such a strong year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All the Orton/Taker matches in their series are 4 stars at least IMO.

WM: ★★★★¼
SummerSlam: ★★★★¼
Smackdown: ★★★★
No Mercy: ★★★★
Armageddon: ★★★★½


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> All the Orton/Taker matches in their series are 4 stars at least IMO.
> 
> WM: ★★★★¼
> SummerSlam: ★★★★¼
> ...




Agree on almost everything here expect no mercy. Didn't care for that as much as the other 4. Ortons dad killed that match for me. Still wasn't bad though.

WM: ****
Summerslam: ****1/4
Smackdown: ****
No mercy: ***1/4
Armageddon: ****1/4 (underrated cell match)


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

On the topic of the GOAT NEARFALL from Undertaker/HHH WM27. The reaction in the video says it all.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Don't know why but I'm" in a mood for some Cody Rhodes matches. Any recommendations? (Sans vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. @Extreme Rules 2011, just watched that yesterday.)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm not insanely fond of that Trips/Taker match but watching it live I was freaking out. Was legitimately amazed when Taker kicked out.

Orton/Taker series:
WM - ****1/4
SS - ****
SD - ***3/4
NM - ***3/4
Armageddon - ****1/2

Awesome series.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

When Edge hit the second spear at Wrestlemania 24 I thought the streak may end for a second. Then he locked in hell's gate and won. I love that match and it's one of my personal favorites ****1/2.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Don't know why but I'm" in a mood for some Cody Rhodes matches. Any recommendations? (Sans vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. @Extreme Rules 2011, just watched that yesterday.)



vs Mysterio 'Mania 27
Smackdown Elimination Chamber 2012
vs Christian No Way Out 2012


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I always bring it up when the WM27 match is mentioned but that mammoth review from another forum someone posted a few months back sums up why I (and other fans of it) love that match so. I really should save the link instead of simply referring to it. :side:
> 
> @******* - Am interested to hear your thoughts on WM24 Edge/Taker since you said you weren't a fan of it. Feel free to rant if you please.


Have you a link to that review?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> Have you a link to that review?



here ya go - http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=132877&st=15&p=2723786&#entry2723786


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

What's everyones WM main event rankings? Start from where you've started watching on and so forth. For me I started since WM 12. 

1. WM 20. Benoit/HBK/HHH *****

2. WM 26. HBK/Taker ****3/4

3. WM 17. Rock/Austin ****1/2

4. WM 23. HBK/Cena. ****1/2

5. WM 24. Edge/Taker. ****1/2

6. WM 19. Angle/Lesnar. ****1/2

7. WM 14. Austin/HBK. ****1/4

8. WM 15. Austin/Rock. ****

9. WM 28. Cena/Rock. ****

10. WM 22. Cena/HHH. ***3/4

11. WM 16. Foley/HHH/Rock/Show. ***3/4

12. WM 12. HBK/Bret. ***1/2

13. WM 18. Jericho/HHH ***1/2

14. WM 29. Cena/Rock. ***

15. WM 21. Batista/HHH. ***

16. WM 25. Orton/HHH. **3/4

17. WM 13. Taker/Sid. **1/2

18.WM 27. Cena/Miz. **1/2


HHH/Orton is still the biggest disappointment for me IMO. The buildup was absolutely perfect. To give us that crap at mania was a damn shame.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM Main Events Top 10:

(****1/2)
1) Austin vs. Rock WM17
2) Undertaker vs. HBK WM26
(****1/4)
3) Benoit vs. HBK vs. HHH WM20
4) Undertaker vs. Edge WM24
(****)
5) Hogan vs. Savage WM5
6) Hogan vs. Warrior WM6
7) Lesnar vs. Angle WM19
8) HBK vs. Cena WM23
(***1/2)
9) HBK vs. Bret Hart WM12
10) HBK vs. Austin WM14


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually prefer backlash 3 way as opposed to wm 20


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Wrestlemania main events rankings.

1) Benoit v HBK v HHH, Mania xx - *****
2) Undertaker v HBK, Mania 26 - ****3/4
3) The Rock v Austin, Mania 17 - ****1/2
4) Undertaker v Edge, Mania 24 - ****1/4
5) Lesner v Angle, Mania 19 - ****
6) Hogan v Savage, Mania 5 - ***3/4
7) HBK v Austin, Mania 14 - ***1/2
8) Austin v The Rock, Mania 15 - ***1/4
9) HBK v Bret - ***1/4
10) Rock v Cena, Mania 29 - **3/4

Need to rewatch the others before I can rank them.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> On the topic of the GOAT NEARFALL from Undertaker/HHH WM27. The reaction in the video says it all.


I forgot how awesome that nearfall was, I legit thought that HHH had ended the streak there. Speaking of GOAT nearfalls, what about Santino hitting the Cobra on D-Bry at Elimination Chamber last year? I really thought for those few seconds that Santino had won the title and the crowd in Philly really ate it up. Awesome moment.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Chiller88 said:


> I forgot how awesome that nearfall was, I legit thought that HHH had ended the streak there. Speaking of GOAT nearfalls, what about Santino hitting the Cobra on D-Bry at Elimination Chamber last year? I really thought for those few seconds that Santino had won the title and the crowd in Philly really ate it up. Awesome moment.




That was in milwaukee. I was there live pissing my pants for a minute during that ending.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

xdoomsayerx said:


> That was in milwaukee. I was there live pissing my pants for a minute during that ending.


Well, I would've sworn it was Philly. I guess those couple segments they did with Santino training for the match like Rocky Balboa had me thinking it was Philly lol.


----------



## DanM3 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've signed up to netflix and just managed to get the USA netflix which has loads if WWE Stuff that the uk doesn't have. I really enjoyed:

Bret hart wrestling with shadows: think this is my favourite wrestling film I've seen, was so insightful

Stone cold: bottom line... - this is way better than the other documentary about him 

Cm punk best in the world: easily the best modern wrestling film, loved all the old footage

Edge you think you know me - again way better than the other edge film. It made me respect edge even more


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Guess no one likes Rhodes lol, anyways thanks to SmokeandMirrors for the recommendations.

*Doctor Rhodes vs. Captain Mysterio Jr. (4/3/2011)-****
-This was a solid undercard that was better on a later watch. My only qualm (not their fault) is that they tried to cram too much into the time they were alotted. It's like they didn't know whether they wanted a wrestling match or to focus on the story with the mask and they bounced back and forth with it. Not as good as their Extreme Rules match but serviceable for a Mania undercard. Hard to believe that this was Rey Jr.'s last Mania match.

*Bryan vs. Marella vs. Barrett vs. Rhodes vs. Show vs. Khali (2/19/2012)-*****
-This chamber match was loads of fun. Everyone here played to their strengths and no one overstayed their welcome. These matches go long so pacing is crucial and they nailed it here; on a live watch they made you believe that Santino was going to legit win the title. Shame WWE never capitalized on his popularity. Good stuff.

*Cody Rhodes vs. Christian (6/17/2012)-***+*
-Very solid title between these guys; Cody is excellent when it comes to controlling the pace of a match because he works quick (can't think of a better word) so the match never feels like it drags and you got some good back and forth. Christian does a good job of selling the arm and you got some cool spots like that sick step up Tornado DDT on the outside. Some surprisingly good near falls down the stretch as well with a cool finishing sequence. They wrestled a usual formula but here it clicked.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Rhodes screams midcarder to me, nothing more. Can work a good match, but his character has zero direction and his charisma and mic skills are just average.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Rhodes screams midcarder to me, nothing more. Can work a good match, but his character has zero direction and his charisma and mic skills are just average.


You make it sound like being a midcarder is a bad thing lol. Agree to disagree I guess but I think he has a lot of upside which certainly outweighs his negatives IMO.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nothing wrong with being a midcarder, imo. Sometimes that's just the right place for someone to be.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

im in the few that actually likes Rhodes, obviously his character like many has ZERO direction and is booked horribly but you cannot dismiss undashing rhodes gimmick, he was great back in 2011. His in ring skills has a "old school" feel to me


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Guess no one likes Rhodes lol, anyways thanks to SmokeandMirrors for the recommendations.
> 
> *Doctor Rhodes vs. Captain Mysterio Jr. (4/3/2011)-****
> -This was a solid undercard that was better on a later watch. My only qualm (not their fault) is that they tried to cram too much into the time they were alotted. It's like they didn't know whether they wanted a wrestling match or to focus on the story with the mask and they bounced back and forth with it. Not as good as their Extreme Rules match but serviceable for a Mania undercard. Hard to believe that this was Rey Jr.'s last Mania match.
> ...


why didnt use just say wrestlemania 27 , elimination chamber 12 and no way out 12 to keep people from confusion ?


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

I just wish midcarders were a thing that existed in WWE.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> why didnt use just say wrestlemania 27 , elimination chamber 12 and no way out 12 to keep people from confusion ?


I prefer to use dates for my reviews. I only record event names if I covering the entire show.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

zep81 said:


> here ya go - http://ukff.com/index.php?showtopic=132877&st=15&p=2723786&#entry2723786


Thanks. Good write up. I agree that the build was fantastic. I didn't like the WM27 match at first but on subsequent viewings i 'got it'. Triple H's sell after Taker kicks out of the tombstone was fantastic reminiscent of his reaction to Foley unveiling Cactus Jack at Smackdown! in 2000.

I loved the WM28 Cell match when I first watched it - think I watched it 3 or 4 times the week after the PPV - and thought it was close to 5 stars but I'm not as hot on it now, I used to consider it a top 3 Cell match after Badd Blood 97 and No Way Out 00.... I'd give it ****1/4. It feels sort of like a coda to their WM27 match rather than something unique.

****1/2 for Triple H v Taker WM27
**** for Triple H v Taker WM17



I saw people rating Mania main events a few posts back. Do people consider Randy Savage v Ric Flair WM8 and Diesel v HBK WM11 to be main events? Or is it just the matches that went on last? As far as I'm concerned WM8 was billed a double main event and it iirc it wasn't made clear that Bam Bam v LT was going to be the last match. Think I might give all WrestleMania main events I-XXIX a watch and rate accordingly. Due to nostalgia the WMXII Iron Man would be one of my favourites


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Don't know why but I'm" in a mood for some Cody Rhodes matches. Any recommendations? (Sans vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. @Extreme Rules 2011, just watched that yesterday.)


To add onto the ones that were already listed & watched:

DX vs. Legacy (Summerslam '09 & Breaking Point Submissions Count Anywhere)
Street Fight vs. Randy Orton (Smackdown 11/4/11)
vs. Sheamus (Smackdown 7/27/12)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*






​
*Rhyno (c) vs Spike Dudley for the WWF Hardcore title- RAW Is War 4/23/01*

After defeating Kane for the Hardcore title on Smackdown all thanks to the Two Man Power Trip beating the living piss out of Kane with two steel chairs, Rhyno's first Hardcore title defense will be against Spike Dudley. Spike Dudley makes his way to the ring with Bubba Ray and D-Von heading to the announce table for commentary. Rhyno makes his way to the ring with the WWF Hardcore title around his waist. Here comes the X-Factor ala the most pointless stable in wrestling history making an appearence for whatever reason. Spike Dudley gets distracted with the X-Factor and Rhyno goes for an attack in Spike Dudley in which the match gets started. Spike Dudley dropkicks Rhyno out of the ring and goes up on the turnbuckle to give Rhyno a top rope splash. Spike Dudley throws Rhyno back inside the ring. Spike Dudley searches for weapons to use and brings a trashcan lid to the ring only to get kneed in the face by Rhyno. Rhyno tries to hit a gore on Spike Dudley but Spike hits him with the trashcan lid. The X-Factor starts to come closer to the ring with Bubba Ray and D-Von leaving the announce table and going after the X-Factor which turns into a brawl. Meanwhile, Rhyno and Spike Dudley are in the ring. Rhyno goes to hit Spike Dudley with a trashcan lid but misses. Spike Dudley hits Rhyno with the Dudley Dog and goes for a cover but gets dragged out of the ring by A-Train who gets hit with a trashcan lid from Spike Dudley. Spike Dudley gets inside the ring only to eat a gore from Rhyno. Rhyno pins Spike Dudley and retains his Hardcore title. 

A pretty fun, yet short Hardcore match. That's about it. The ending was pretty great with the unexpected gore from Rhyno and also Rhyno retaining his Hardcore title. *Rating:* ★★1/4


*Rhyno (c) vs Raven for the WWF Hardcore title- Backlash 2001*

This is Rhyno's first Hardcore title defense on PPV and he defends against Raven. Here comes Raven who comes to the ring with a shopping cart full of weapons inside of it because weapons under the ring simply isn't enough for him. Raven throws a trashcan along with trashcan lids and a STOP sign inside the ring. Rhyno runs after Raven but gets tripped and falls on the STOP sign. Raven goes for a cover but Rhyno kicks out at 1. Raven Irish whips Rhyno towards the corner turnbuckle, grabs a trashcan, and ramps it right onto Rhyno's head. Raven goes for another cover but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Rhyno, whose now in control, hits Raven with a trashcan. In a cool looking spot, Raven grabs a trashcan and Rhyno goes for a running kick on Raven with the trashcan right in front of Raven's face and Raven landing outside the ring through the ropes. It's hard to explain but you get the jist of it. Anyways, Rhyno goes for a cover on Raven from outside the ring but Raven kicks out at 2. Rhyno places two steel steps on top of each other, grabs a steel chair, places Raven on the steel chair, and tries to give Raven a flying gore but ends up landing on the steel chair. Raven runs on the two steel steps and hits Rhyno with a flying clothesline. Raven goes for a pin but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Raven throws Rhyno back inside the ring. Raven throws a right-handed punch on Rhyno which sens Rhyno flying outside of the ring. Raven goes outside of the ring and throws Rhyno onto the guardrail. Raven throws a kitchen sink, a trashcan, and other weird ass weapons inside the ring. Raven goes after Rhyno but Rhyno throws Raven onto the steel ringpost. Rhyno then hits Raven with a trashcan lid. Rhyno rips a sign off the guardrail and hits Raven with it. Rhyno goes for a cover but Raven kicks out at 2. Rhyno hits Raven again with the trashcan lid and goes for another cover but Raven kicks out. Rhyno takes the shopping cart and ramps it in Raven's face, throwing the shopping cart inside the ring. Rhyno places the shopping cart in the middlbe of the ring and throws Raven's face on it. Raven trips Rhyno with Rhyno's head landing onto the shopping cart. Raven gets up and hits Raven with a handicap sign. Raven Irish whips Rhyno towards the turnbuckle and hits him with a clothesline followed up with a bulldog. Raven pins Rhyno but Rhyno kicks out at 2. As Rhyno picks up the shopping cart, Raven ramps a trashcan right in Rhyno's face with the shopping cart landing right on Rhyno. Raven tries to go for another cover on Rhyno but that doesn't put him away. Raven takes the shopping cart and drives it right onto Rhyno's abdomen. Raven Irish Whips Raven to the corner turnbuckle but ends up getting hit again with the handicap sign. Rhyno goes for a cover but that doesn't put Raven out either. Rhyno tries to put Raven out with a gore but ends running inside the shopping cart in a funny looking spot. Raven takes a kitchen sink and starts banging the shopping with it with Rhyno still stuck inside the shopping cart. Raven goes for a pinfall but it's a kick out at 2 from Rhyno. Rhyno ends up hitting Raven with a gore from out of nowhere to win the match and also to successfully retain his WWF Hardcore title.

Yeah, this match is good. I had a blast with it. A very underrated gem right here. This match right here was pretty much my ideal Hardcore match. They used the weapons in a smart and creative way to get the fans invested rather than doing random, nonsensical spots with the weapons which seems to be the problem when it comes to Hardcore matches like these. Very fun match here and one of Rhyno's good matches. *Rating:* ★★★1/2


*Rhyno (c) vs Chris Jericho for the WWF Hardcore title- RAW Is War 4/30/01*

Here's William Regal who is doing commentary for this match. Rhyno goes for the attack on Jericho as Jericho enters the ring. Jericho ends up throwing Rhyno out of the ring. Rhyno gets on the ring apron and throws Jericho face-first onto the turnbuckle. Time to bring in some weapons inside the ring as Rhyno brings in two steel chairs, a trashcan, a trashcan lid, and also a STOP sign inside the ring. Rhyno brings the STOP sign into the ring but Jericho hits him with a Springboard dropkick. Jericho gets out of the ring and throws Rhyno's face onto the guardrail. Jericho then throws Rhyno onto steel steps. Jericho grabs a steel chair, turns his attention to William Regal, and is about to hit Regal with it but Rhyno hits Jericho before he could swing the chair on Regal. Rhyno throws Jericho onto the guardrail and goes for a gore but ends up hitting the guardrail with Jericho getting out of the way. Jericho grabs a trashcan lid and hits Rhyno over the head with it and throws him back inside the ring. Jericho takes a leather strap and starts to whip Rhyno with it. Jericho places a trashcan in between the top and second top turnbuckle. Jericho Irish whips Rhyno towards the corner turnbuckle and hits him with a clothesline and tries to follow that up with a bulldog but Rhyno takes Jericho and throws him into the trashcan that was placed in between the turnbuckle. Rhyno takes the trashcan and goes on the top rope but Jericho strikes him with a steel chair. Jericho takes a trashcan lid and strikes Rhyno with it. Jericho takes the trashcan lid and places it onto a steel chair. Jericho gives Rhyno a super Hurricanrana with Rhyno landing on the trashcan lid and steel chair. Here comes Edge who runs in to help Rhyno but Jericho strikes him with a trashcan lid. Christian from out of nowhere sprays Jericho with a fire extinguisher with Rhyno hitting Jericho with a gore to retain his Hardcore title. 

Damn did I enjoy this match between Rhyno and Jericho. This was also another fun Hardcore match with Rhyno involved. Great match. *Rating:* ★★★1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

EVERYBODY go see FAST 6 great great movies, watch some bret now


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

BILL GOLDBERG V. MOTHERFUCKIN' *LA PARKA*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-6CnwPef4k

HOLY FUCK GOLDBERG V. LA PARKA!!!!!!!! HOLY FUCK!!!!!!! Parka stands on the chair and then threatens to DESTROY Goldberg with it, while Goldberg shows this sick smile and is like 'MUTHAFCXIN' COME ON'. Then Parka swings it into his head and Goldberg no sells it and spears LAFUCKINGPARKA straight in the GUT. No selling is sucky but I'm watching a twenty second GOLDBERG V. LA PARKA MATCH!!!!! Who gives a *FUCK*!? ****1/2 and a 1998 MOTYC.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOLDBERG SMASH


----------



## Apex Predator (Apr 9, 2013)

Goldberg rules.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Alim’s Best of 2005 Project Snowflakes w/ Comments*

*Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Edge vs. Batista vs. Chris Jericho*
_Elimination Chamber_
*New Year’s Revolution*
This elimination chamber should be what the match type is all about. Unfortunately the PG era has slightly hindered it from reaching its true meaning. This is one of the most star studded matches ever. You have 3 of the best wrestlers to ever come out of Canada in Benoit, Jericho, and Edge and then you have two Evolution members in The Game and Batista and the former member in Orton. It seemed like everyone was bleeding at some point other than Batista and Edge, but those two rarely ever blade. Not sure why. This was brutal. They used the steel structure very well and the action was fast paced and flowed really well. No real STANDOUT performances because everyone looked like they were on their A games. The teaser between Batista/HHH was a nice touch and was a sign of things to come. I wouldn’t say this is the best EVER Elimination Chamber match because that title goes to the original one, but this one was DAMN good and definitely ONE OF the best, top 3 for sure. 
*Rating: ****1/4*

*Randy Orton vs. Christian*
*Monday Night Raw 2/14*
Face Orton is fucking awful. Now that I’ve got that out of the way, I can give my thoughts on this match. It started off really basic, like your typical uppercard Raw match that gets 10-15 minutes, but it really picked up towards the end. Tomko’s interference really added to the match and made for a believable finish, but Orton still had some fight left in him. The finish was EPIC though. Christian goes for the Unprettier, but somehow Orton LEAPFROGS over him and hits one of the most beautiful RKOs I have ever seen. That finish bumped this match up a solid 1/2 I’d say.
*Rating: ***1/2*

*John Bradshaw Layfield vs. Big Show*
_Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match_
*No Way Out*
For some reason I had high hopes for this match. I’m not sure why. It was probably the Big Show mark in me. Don’t get me wrong, this wasn’t bad by any means. In fact, it was quite solid, but I was expecting a bit more. They really didn’t use the barbed wire as a weapon at all. JBL teased trying to go over it a few times, but that was it. Big Show’s blade job was pretty SICK and JBL is always a shoe in for a crimson mask. This is the match with the infamous CHOKESLAM THROUGH THE RING finish where everyone thought Big Show had the match won, only for JBL to win by crawling under the ring in GOAT heel fashion. 
*Rating: ****

*Shawn Michaels vs. Edge*
_Street Fight_
*Monday Night Raw 2/28*
A fun Street Fight here between two great workers. It only took 4 minutes for Shawn Michaels to be pissing blood out of his forehead, but what a blade job it was. It came from a SICK DDT onto a chair by Edge. There were a number of HARD shots to the head in this match with chairs and even a kendo stick. Michaels also pulled off a weird looking Suicide Dive which he hadn’t done in a while. 
*Rating: ***1/2*

*Triple H vs. Chris Benoit*
_Pick Your Poison_
*Monday Night Raw 3/14*
This match is FUCKING AWESOME, how had I not seen it before? Well I have because I never missed Raw around this time, but you know what I mean. Benoit goes into absolute BEAST MODE with a TRIPLE GERMAN SUPLEX HATTRICK. Benoit laid the STIFF CHOPS to Hunter as well. The crowd was WOOing like no tomorrow. It being in Atlanta and Flair being at ringside probably helped a bit. What was so amazing about this match is that it played so well into the Wrestlemania Triple Threat that happened EXACTLY a year before. Wrestlemania XX was on 3/14/04 and this match took place on 3/14/05. Batista handpicked Benoit to face HHH and they played DAT STORYTELLING to a tee. A number of references to the GOAT match including the EPIC finish where Benoit had Hunter in the Crippler Crossface, HHH was fading, only for him to get back in it and tried to roll Benoit over. Except this time things didn’t go Benoit’s way as THE NATURE BOY came in with THE DISTRACTION which let Triple H capitalize and hit the Pedigree for the win. What an awesome match. Both guys brought IT.
*Rating: ****1/4*

Next up I'll be watching a set of WRESTLEMANIA XXI matches and a couple from BACKLASH. Stay tuned.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ALIM/FANDANGO ... I can't even ....

There was just so much swag in that fucking post that I'm not even going to comment on it.

Coming from somebody who is going back and watching all of the big time TV matches from 2005 as well as all of the PPVs in their entirety, I'm glad to see some MAD love for the Pick Your Poison match as it's completely fucking fabulous. If you adred that match, you're in for a real treat when the Gold Rush tournament comes along and you have Benoit/HHH & Shelton/HBK in the same fucking night. Barbed wire cage & the GOAT Chamber match are ABAP as fuck.

ABAP BABY, ABAP.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah I'm fucking STOKED for when I reach May. Benoit/HHH, HBK/Shelton, Rey/Eddie, Cena/JBL... 

But the next 5 matches on my list are nothing to sneeze at either.

Orton/Taker, Angle/HBK, MITB I, Edge/Benoit, Shelton/Y2J... :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> BILL GOLDBERG V. MOTHERFUCKIN' *LA PARKA*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-6CnwPef4k
> 
> HOLY FUCK GOLDBERG V. LA PARKA!!!!!!!! HOLY FUCK!!!!!!! Parka stands on the chair and then threatens to DESTROY Goldberg with it, while Goldberg shows this sick smile and is like 'MUTHAFCXIN' COME ON'. Then Parka swings it into his head and Goldberg no sells it and spears LAFUCKINGPARKA straight in the GUT. No selling is sucky but I'm watching a twenty second GOLDBERG V. LA PARKA MATCH!!!!! Who gives a *FUCK*!? ****1/2 and a 1998 MOTYC.


This is why you're the best.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Undie-Angle (SD 2003) ****3/4 - Only competition this has for TV MOTY is from Brock-Benoit. Didn't like Angle-Brock Iron Man at all, Steamboat-Rude still stands as the stipulation's best.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Undie-Angle (SD 2003) ****3/4 - Only competition this has for TV MOTY is from Brock-Benoit. Didn't like Angle-Brock Iron Man at all, Steamboat-Rude still stands as the stipulation's best.


Yeah, i do love Steamboat/Rude myself, but for me Brock/Angle is still the standard IMHO.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Yokozuna vs. the Undertaker '94 Rumble casket match (4 1/2 stars)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> This is why you're the best.


<3






EDIT- oh thank god, I was worried there'd be a gayass pink facebook heart emoticon in place of the three and the 'is less than'. This is less gayass. 


I have nothing to add wrestling-wise.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Fandango said:


> *Alim’s Best of 2005 Project Snowflakes w/ Comments*


Nice stuff, what a year 2005 was. The two HHH/Benoit matches on Raw are simply awesome, plus I'm a big fan of the HBK/Edge street fight. So much more to come too, looking forward to reading your thoughts. (Y)


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Been watching Reys latest DVD.

Mysterio/Edge v Eddie & Chavo, Smackdown, October 2002 - ***1/4

Mysterio/Kidman v WGTT, Vengeance 2003 - ****

Mysterio v Kurt Angle, Smackdown, October 2004 **3/4

Mysterio/RVD v Eddie/Booker T, December 2004 - ***1/2

Mysterio v Eddie, Wretlemania 21 - ***

Mysterio v Randy Orton, No Way Out 2006 - ****


Was very impressed with the Orton match, Orton was such an asshole in this and put in a damn good performance mocking and hurting Reys arm. The tag v WGTT holds up well, just great tag wrestling. Rey, Eddie at Mania is decent but disappointing just as I remembered, Rey touching the mask about 17 times was annoying.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> <3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do that towards my friends after making a crass joke and it loses all of its cache. Stupid Facebook.

Oh, I'm going to totally watch Goldberg vs La Parka right now.

and I finished the Attitude Era doc. It was short and sweet. I enjoyed the tidbits about the midcard guys more than the doc focusing on the obvious names. That was pretty cool.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Took me two days to watch this PPV. I probably wasn't in the best of moods to watch it but it was still not easy to get through. Apologies for this review not being particularly well written.

*WWF Breakdown 1998 review​*
*Match 1: Edge vs. Owen Hart ****
Quality opener here. Owen tries sucking up to his home crowd in Canada (I think, I don’t know much about Canadian cities) but they turn on him so he flips them off. They work a pretty good, fast paced match with a few nice reversal and counter sequences. It ends when a mysterious person makes an appearance at ringside, distracting Edge who gets pinned by Owen. This was Edge’s second PPV appearance and he’s making a good impression. Pretty sure that was Christian showing up there. Interesting development.

*Match 2: Too Much vs. Al Snow & 2 Cold Scorpio *1/2*
Not a bad match. Pretty fun but it perhaps goes a little too long and it gets a little convoluted towards the end. At one point, Al brought a chair to the ring and hit a Poetry In Motion (only name I can think of to call that move) on one of Too Much which was pretty interesting to see. Scorpio did the same move but the chair broke so that looked kinda bad. As the match comes to a close there are dudes hitting moves and pinning each other everywhere, the ref counts them all. Nobody is legal, it makes no sense. Snow hits his finisher, The Snow Plow on one of them and gets the pin, though I’m not sure who was legal. I might have given this match a higher rating if it wasn’t for the screwed up ending.

*Match 3: Marc Mero vs. Droz *1/2*
This was okay. Nothing impressive but they work a solid match with Mero cheating and such. Jackie jumps off the top rope, hitting Droz with a shoe. This leads to Mero hitting a nice Marvelocity (shooting star press) to get the win. Though it looked like his knee hit Droz right in the jaw, might’ve been painful.

*Match 4: Vader vs. Bradshaw ***
So far, I have no idea where any of these matches have come from. I don’t remember the announcements from Raw or any of the build up. This is Falls Count Anywhere for some reason. I’d have to assume these matches were from Heat considering there was a 2 week hiatus after Summerslam. Thus there were only 2 weeks to build for Breakdown. Vader controls the match for a while and works Bradshaw’s leg. Bradshaw takes control on the outside, knocking Vader down with a big clothesline and then hitting Vader with the ring bell, followed by another massive clothesline. They brawl some more. Bradshaw ends up kicking out of a Vader Bomb. Vader kicks out of another huge clothesline but eats a pin after a neckbreaker. Decent, hard-hitting brawl, Bradshaw came out looking good.

Jason Sensation is doing impressions. He’s good.

*Match 5: D-Lo Brown vs. Gangrel **
Love that Gangrel entrance and music. The entrance he makes on Raw with the fire pit is better but whatever, the music is cool enough. Again this match is happening for no reason. The match starts out promising enough, but it slows right down and gets quite boring. They also seem to awkwardly screw up a spot and a few moves which pretty much kills the crowd. Mark Henry comes out and while the ref is distracted, he runs Gangrel into the ring post and rolls him back into the ring. This leads to D-Lo hitting a huge Lo-down followed by a pin. Gangrel spits blood in Henry’s face, then hits a DDT on D-Lo and leaves. Not a good match.

Finally we’re getting to a scheduled match with the triple threat cage match. Or at least if one of the others was announced, this is the first match worth something. I didn’t realise there have been five nothing matches on the show so far. It’s quite poor really. Anyway, there is a lengthy recap of what happened on Raw. Then Shamrock cuts a decent promo, followed by The Rock giving a very good promo. He wasn’t very popular at this time but the crowd was really starting to like him, especially with this promo. Foley then gives a good, funny promo as well.

*Match 6: Mankind vs. The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock *****
Triple threat Number 1 contender’s steel cage match. Long match name. The Rock gets a nice pop for his entrance. It’s great watching the rise of The Rock from being hated by everyone, and now despite still being a heel, people are really beginning to love him. The match consists of a lot of double teaming, with each guy teaming up and then immediately turning on each other. It’s a good story to tell and the match keeps changing. At one point Mankind and Shamrock team up and take it to The Rock. The crowd does not like that! Mankind waves at the crowd, haha he’s great. The Rock comes back hitting a running DDT on both guys one after the other, followed by a double People’s Elbow that the crowd goes nuts for. My god he is so over in Canada tonight. The biggest reaction he has ever gotten and it is a huge reaction. He starts climbing the cage but is stopped and crotched on the ropes. He low blows Ken and then hits a Rock Bottom on mankind to another big pop. The crowd is chanting ‘Shamrock sucks’. Lawler’s right when he says Canada is like ‘bizarro world’. Shamrock locks in the ankle lock and Mankind breaks it up, then immediately starts climbing the cage, They battle up top and The Rock gets knocked off. Mankind stands on top of the cage and pays tribute to Jimmy Snuka and goes for a diving elbow but The Rock rolls out of the way and Mankind crashes into the mat. Goddamn. That must have been a painful, yet great moment for him. Shamrock is escaping. Mankind drags Shamrock back into the ring who brings a chair with him, which turns against him as Mankind smashes him in the face with it. He then climbs the cage but as he’s coming down, The Rock pins Shamrock for the win. Mankind looks very agitated. One hell of a match. I had no idea this match even existed, it probably gets overlooked a lot, but it’s a great battle. I recommend checking it out. Mankind and The Rock come out looking like massive stars. Shamrock looks good in defeat too.

*Match 7: Val Venis vs. Dustin Runnels N/A*
Well at least there was some build for this match. Terri comes out with Venis. Dustin does not look happy. For some reason this match just cuts off half way through. Not sure what the deal is with the version I’m watching online. Oh well, nothing happened in the 5 minutes that I saw, I doubt much else of note happened in the last 4 minutes.

*Match 8: Jeff Jarrett & Southern Justice vs. DX (X-Pac & The New Age Outlaws) ***
This match had some decent build. They brawl to start and then Jarrett goes one-on-one with X-Pac for a bit. Road Dogg gets worked over a bit and then tags in X-Pac who takes out Jarrett but then gets powerbombed by one of the Godwinns (I don’t remember which one is which). X-Pac takes a beating for a while, Jarrett locks in a sleeper hold which X-Pac eventually reverses and tags in Billy Gunn. Everyone is in the ring and then Jarrett goes out and grabs his guitar. Gunn takes it only to lose it to the ref. Jarrett takes it back while Gunn is being beat down by Southern Justice and hits X-Pac over the head with it. Gunn somehow comes back, hits the Fameasser and wins. The guitar shot has injured X-Pac’s eye. This was a solid tag match. It got a little boring in the middle but it was entertaining for the most part.

*Match 9: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane ***
For the WWF Championship. Taker and Kane are not allowed to pin each other. They have to pin Austin. So while they are working together, pretty much as a tag team, the bigger question becomes, who gets to pin Austin? This match is solid for the first half with Taker and Kane really taking it to Austin. Then things slow right down with Austin still getting beat down, but just slower and in a boring way. Nothing seems to happen for a number of minutes. Eventually Taker and Kane start to turn on each other and things are breaking down (ha) between them. Austin every few minutes would start to mount a comeback but then eventually would get taken down again. This match really goes on for too long. They sort of repeat spots, such as the one where one brother goes for a pin and the other breaks it up and then they start fighting. It seemed unnecessary to do that twice. Should have just done it the first time and then gone to the end sequence. The crowd kind of dies after that too. After some more comebacks and beat downs, Taker and Kane double chokeslam Austin, followed by a double pin. Austin has lost the title, but who’s the winner? That was an interesting way to finish the match. Like I said though, this match went on for way too long. They could have easily cut out 5 minutes and made it more entertaining. A disappointing main event.

After the match Vince and co. come down and steal the title belt. Vince gets away in a limo as Austin beats up his cronies. Austin goes outside and McMahon’s out there and flips off Austin before getting back in the limo. That ends the PPV.

I would say that WWF Breakdown 1998 is simply not really worth your time. There is only one match I would say that you should see and that is of course the cage match. Everything else though is just kind of there. Nothing is bad, the opener is good and some of the matches are at least entertaining, but it’s not really worth the money or the 3 hours to watch the whole thing. It’s also a shame that only 4 out of 9 matches had some build and actually meant something. It’s easy to attribute that to the two week hiatus after Summerslam. I don’t know why there was a hiatus but it really affected this PPV that apart from the main event that has a good storyline going for it, simply feels like filler to just get them to the next PPV. This was a really disappointing show overall. *4/10*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it was Christian. His debut in WWF.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll throw in my random review of that Cage match from Breakdown (not as big a fan):

*#1 Contender's Triple Threat Steel Cage Match*
The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock
_WWF Breakdown: In Your House_

Haven't seen this match in years, wasn't as good as I thought it was. Pinfall, submission, or escape the cage here. You can't really structure a triple threat cage match all that well. Nothing exciting happened in the first half of the match, it was nothing but a 2-on-1 situation, then you'd turn on the other guy and repeat a few more times, or you'd just have a guy standing around. There was actually a time where Mankind was standing right beside the door for a good 30 seconds just waiting to do another move. The crowd was 100% behind The Rock the whole way through and pretty much hated Shamrock, which was understandable. He cut an awful promo before the match, whereas Rocky's and Foley's were fantastic. The only reason I'm rating this as high as I am is for three things: Rock's double people's elbow (which I don't think we'd ever seen at the time), Foley doing his best Jimmy Snuka impression and missing his dive, and the finish, which was very clever and showed how much of a goof Mankind was. Fun watch but not a classic.

****1/4*

Main event is fucking terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^only remember the dive & the awesome finish. I was so pissed when Foley didn't win as a kid, haha. "as a kid" also means the last time I saw that event in full. Only thing I've seen recently is Owen vs Edge & Undertaker vs Kane. Which I do remember being pretty bad. The latter that is. Mostly b/c of all the stupid antics with Austin in the mix and Vince wanting a new champ, blah blah blah. It was a farcry from what Taker vs Kane produced earlier in '98.

Oh and Goldberg vs La Parka. Jesus christ. Watch it. You'll have goosebumps. It's probably the BEST display of the essence of a force that Goldberg was. Seriously. How WCW didn't succeed with him at the helm is mindblowing. Those idiots.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

La Parka was the GOAT cruiserweight. It is a real shame how eventually the division became a farce in the later years.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation: Yeah I figured, couldn't really tell though. You didn't get much of a good angle and the video I was watching wasn't the greatest quality.

Jack Evans 187: Fair review. I get the feeling I may have rated it a little high, simply because the cage match was a relief from the 2 hours of mediocrity and pointlessness that preceded it. However, I also like Triple Threat matches so I dunno.

I was just reading another couple of reviews of the show to see what they thought of the main event and they said it was absolutely terrible as well and only gave it 1/5 and a 1/10. I honestly didn't think it was THAT bad. It was fairly entertaining for the majority of the match. Though the boring parts make up a good 10 minutes of the match so perhaps a *1/2 rating would be more accurate than the ** I gave it. Wouldn't go less than that though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The chairman of WCW. I love how that stuck. Beats the snot out of Super Calo with a chair one night in '97 and the rest was history.

That's another top cruiserweight. Super Calo. He needs more love.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

Super Calo is great and all, but I would put at least like four or five others above him in terms of the best.

Blitzkrieg, for example, is one person I would put above him.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Kane-Undie JD 1998 is solid, aside from the dodgy finish. Overall, ***1/4.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

I went out and actually bought that SmackDown 10th Anniversary DVD for about nine or ten bucks.

I'm currently watching Rey Mysterio/Matt Hardy go at it for the Cruiserweight Title.

SmackDown 2003. Good times. Great wrestling.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> The chairman of WCW. I love how that stuck. Beats the snot out of Super Calo with a chair one night in '97 and the rest was history.
> 
> That's another top cruiserweight. Super Calo. He needs more love.


Point me in the direction of some great Super Calo matches. WCW preferred but Mexico will also be taken with open arms. I virtually have no opinion of the guy. I think there's a match with Rey on his Biggest Little Man set?



Redwood Raven said:


> I went out and actually bought that SmackDown 10th Anniversary DVD for about nine or ten bucks.
> 
> I'm currently watching Rey Mysterio/Matt Hardy go at it for the Cruiserweight Title.
> 
> SmackDown 2003. Good times. Great wrestling.


Oh hells yes. Super fun set, especially the countdown aspect of it. Make sure and watch Orton/Taker from '05 as well, great inclusion.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

MORE VADER EVENTUALLY TODAY HYPE.

Also, if you guys want a good squash, watch Goldberg/Meng for the Heavyweight title, goes like 78 seconds or some shit, MENG :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Redwood Raven said:


> Super Calo is great and all, but I would put at least like four or five others above him in terms of the best.
> 
> Blitzkrieg, for example, is one person I would put above him.


Talent pool was so strong all of them are interchangeable, really. I can understand the mindset.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Point me in the direction of some great Super Calo matches. WCW preferred but Mexico will also be taken with open arms. I virtually have no opinion of the guy. I think there's a match with Rey on his Biggest Little Man set?


YES the match vs Mysterio is on the Biggest Little Man set. So great. Finish will make you jizz your pants. I know it does mine. That just happened.

~ vs Finlay - Thunder 1/21/99 _(I think that's the date)_

~ vs Blitzkrieg - Thunder 4/1/99 and if you can find it, they also had a match on WCW Saturday Night a week or so prior in '99 to the originally listed match.

~ w/Juventud Guerrera & Hector Garza vs La Parka, Ciclope, & Damien - Nitro 5/26/97

~ w/Ultimo Dragon & Juventud Guerrera vs La Parka, Psychosis, & Silver King - Nitro 6/9/97

~ vs MORTIS - WCW Saturday Night 11/?/97

I could have named every tag match Calo was involved in and it'll be worth seeing. Guy is a blast to watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Best *WCW PPV Cruiserweight* matches?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Opinions on Undie-Austin JD 2001 & IYH: A Cold Day in Hell 1997?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan (ER 2012): ******
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (ER 2012): ****1/4*
John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar (ER 2012): *******

Sheamus/Bryan has so much brilliance that it sucks that it was robbed from Mania TWICE. The beginning exchange is probably the best you'll ever see Sheamus partake in. Bryan's complete wrecking of Sheamus' arm, Sheamus being legit gassed out but still pulling out all the stops, Bryan playing conductor to the crowd are just a few of what make this match awesome. It also has a few brilliant visuals. Sheamus' first brogue kick is the best I've seen. Finish was a bit abrupt but this match is just phenomenal.

Punk/Jericho got the fight mechanics right, and there are great spots all around. Sister Punk slapping Jericho and the madness that follows is well captured; the beer saga is really well done and portrays Jericho as an absolute scumbag etc. But it felt too long and did drag here and there.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

zep81 said:


> Best *WCW PPV Cruiserweight* matches?


Mysterio v Guerrero, Halloween Havoc 97.
Mysterio v Guerrero, World War 3 97.
Jericho v Guerrero, Fall Brawl 97.
Mysterio v Malenko, Great American Bash 96.
Mysterio v Malenko, Halloween Havoc 96.
Mysterio v Jushin Liger, Starrcade 96.
Pillman v Justin Liger, Superbrawl 92.
Malenko v Ultimo Dragon, Starrcade 96.
Mysterio v Super Calo, Fall Brawl 96.
Mysterio v Psicosis, Bash at the Beach 96.
Mysterio v Ultimo Dragon, World War 3 96.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jbardo said:


> Mysterio v Guerrero, Halloween Havoc 97.
> Mysterio v Guerrero, World War 3 97.
> Jericho v Guerrero, Fall Brawl 97.
> Mysterio v Malenko, Great American Bash 96.
> ...


Thx mate, Rey was indeed THE man. Repped


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BROCK LESNAR VS JOHN CENA. MATCH OF THE CENTURY (Sorry Taker-Hickenbottom).

Here's a nice little tag for you all to watch; Matt Hardy & Rey Mysterio Vs Chris Masters & Snitsky from Taboo Tuesday 2005. Hardy plays the great FIP while Mysterio gets to fly around and shit after getting the hot tag. There's a point in the match though where Snitsky isn't cooperating with anything Matt is doing, thus making Matt look fucking PISSED; there's one spot where Matt goes for a superplex but Snitsky almost lands on his fucking head and Matt looks as if he wants to murder everybody in the building. They bump around nicely for the bigger guys as well, Rey is an awesome tag worker while Matt is certainly no slouch either.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Opinions on Undie-Austin JD 2001 & IYH: A Cold Day in Hell 1997?




Watched this ppv a year ago id say, id give them a ***1/2

To me Austin/Taker never really clicked. Chemistry was somewhat off. This was a pretty solid match though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Fluze said:


> Opinions on Undie-Austin JD 2001 & IYH: A Cold Day in Hell 1997?


No idea what ratings I'd give but their JD match is comfortably their best effort. Not surprising considering it was in 2001 when Austin was GOATing all year. I can barely recall CDIH, which probably means I didn't think much of it the last time I checked it out.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Thanks to Jack Evans 187 for the recommendations:

*Legacy vs. D-Generation X (8/23/2009)-***-*****
-Still enjoy this match; this was the match that put eyeballs on Ted & Cody (something that should’ve been done in 2008 before they paired with Orton). The main story here is that DiBiase and Rhodes had everything scouted on DX and stayed one step ahead of them the entire time. Bonus points for playing that into the finish where DX won on a desperation move which is not something that happened often during the DX run. Great stuff.

*Legacy vs. D-Generation X (9/13/2009)-****
-This was a fun tag team match; pretty much the same feeling I’ve always had on it. This match was more about getting the stipulation over with the teams focusing on creative submission spots than actually injecting elements of their then ongoing feud to complement it. I did dig the double submission finish and it seemed like HHH would make the save but too little too late. Not as good as their SummerSlam match, but that doesn’t take away from how good this was.

*Cody Rhodes vs. Randy Orton (11/4/2011)-***
-An alright TV match between these guys; the first half was rather slow but picked up once they spilled out to the crowd and hit the first commercial break. Orton dominated about 90% of the match but Cody was able to get a few signature spots in. They didn’t really make use of the stipulation much, if at all really.

*Cody Rhodes vs. Sheamus (7/27/2012)-****
-Very good TV match here; well worked and they meshed well. Some good momentum trading between them that was dictated in a believable fashion with some good spots thrown in. Cody has one of the prettiest moonsaults in the business and I love the spot where the Beautiful Disaster was countered into White Noise. I would’ve liked for Sheamus to had played up Dolph’s presence more but that’s just nitpicking this was a good match.

*Kane vs. Matt vs. Christian vs. Big Show vs. Rhodes vs. McIntyre vs. Kofi vs. Ziggler (7/18/2010)-****+*
-One of my favorite MITBs in that this wasn’t your stereotypical spot happy MITB, they added layer of psychology in that everyone was working around how to handle Kane and Big Show, Show himself wondering how he would get up a ladder and Hardy/Christian standing out as the veterans of the match. You still got lots of ladder spots of course and everyone got a little shine; I was happy that Kane won but I was begging for a Christian or Matt win after their promo leading up to this. Great underrated ladder match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> BROCK LESNAR VS JOHN CENA. MATCH OF THE CENTURY (Sorry Taker-Hickenbottom).
> 
> Here's a nice little tag for you all to watch; Matt Hardy & Rey Mysterio Vs Chris Masters & Snitsky from Taboo Tuesday 2005. Hardy plays the great FIP while Mysterio gets to fly around and shit after getting the hot tag. There's a point in the match though where Snitsky isn't cooperating with anything Matt is doing, thus making Matt look fucking PISSED; there's one spot where Matt goes for a superplex but Snitsky almost lands on his fucking head and Matt looks as if he wants to murder everybody in the building. They bump around nicely for the bigger guys as well, Rey is an awesome tag worker while Matt is certainly no slouch either.


About bloody time someone other than myself notices how good this match is. The Snitsky botch is awesome, haha.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> YES the match vs Mysterio is on the Biggest Little Man set. So great. Finish will make you jizz your pants. I know it does mine. That just happened.
> 
> ~ vs Finlay - Thunder 1/21/99 _(I think that's the date)_
> 
> ...


Can't be jizzin too early, gonna be with the girlfriend later. :lol BUT, this sucker's been favorited. Will dive into some of these in the next day or two. Finlay vs. Calo kinda sounds fucking awesome...



zep81 said:


> Best *WCW PPV Cruiserweight* matches?


Gonna add on two more that weren't mentioned and I REALLY enjoyed:

Brian Pillman vs. Alex Wright (GAB 1995)
Juventud Guerrera vs. Billy Kidman (WW3 1998)
Juventud Guerrera vs. Blitzkrieg (Spring Stampede '99)

The list is rather endless, really.



Matt_Yoda said:


> *Cody Rhodes vs. Randy Orton (11/4/2011)-***
> -An alright TV match between these guys; the first half was rather slow but picked up once they spilled out to the crowd and hit the first commercial break. Orton dominated about 90% of the match but Cody was able to get a few signature spots in. They didn’t really make use of the stipulation much, if at all really.


Oh man, lowest rating I've ever seen for that match. Tell me, were you turned off by how much offense Randy got in opposed to Cody? Cause that's one of my pet peeves when it comes to Orton gimmick matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Gonna add on two more that weren't mentioned and I REALLY enjoyed:
> 
> Brian Pillman vs. Alex Wright (GAB 1995)
> Juventud Guerrera vs. Billy Kidman (WW3 1998)
> ...


Cheers bud. Yeah, pretty much any cruiserweight WCW match is great tbh


----------



## ArabGuy (Jan 23, 2013)

Fluze said:


> Opinions on Undie-Austin JD 2001 & IYH: A Cold Day in Hell 1997?


Cold day in hell was Austin's first time main eventing a wwf pay per view in a singles match, and Taker's second ppv headlining during his reign. With that said the match is an embarrassment to both performers. The rest holds and dead crowd is all I remember when I think of this match. Such a shame as Austin was a horse at this time and Taker was fast too they could have blended well together but no. We got a rest hold fest.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh man, lowest rating I've ever seen for that match. Tell me, were you turned off by how much offense Randy got in opposed to Cody? Cause that's one of my pet peeves when it comes to Orton gimmick matches.


Pretty much, Cody got in like no offense at all and the first half bored me because they really didn't do anything it's like they were waiting for the queue to take it to the crowd. Honestly, I was ready to call it an extended squash match. The match really didn't do a lot for me unfortunately.
________

On the subject of WCW's Cruiserweight division you can't go wrong at all with just about anything, seriously. I wish I could find this old wrestling board from way back (not DVDforums) that pretty much had everything you'd want to see from the division. However like I said, the rotation of top tier talent from America, Japan and Mexico was awesome with Lucha Libre, Puroresu and British Chain wrestling all spotlighted.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Can't be jizzin too early, gonna be with the girlfriend later. :lol BUT, this sucker's been favorited. Will dive into some of these in the next day or two. Finlay vs. Calo kinda sounds fucking awesome...
> 
> Oh man, lowest rating I've ever seen for that match. Tell me, were you turned off by how much offense Randy got in opposed to Cody? Cause that's one of my pet peeves when it comes to Orton gimmick matches.


Lets call it metaphorically then. Only your brain will need cleaning up. 8*D

I can see myself hating the Orton vs Rhodes street fight if I popped it back in. Always notice the crappy "Orton has to dominate and take zero bumps" stuff that follows him into gimmick matches. It ruins the lot. Its why I've never been a fan of the SummerSlam match vs Christian.

If I do like it still, well, that'll be swell. If not then I'll always have the rest of Dashingly Demented Cody Rhodes to look back on. Guy was like my favorite part of 2011 for so long. His promos ruled.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

*Justin Gabriel Project
Post 1: Prologue
*









So I'm doing a Justin Gabriel project because he's a crisp high flyer and why the fuck not? This seems like it'll be fun and I might find some gems. This first post will be his matches in a South Aftrican company. These are the only matches I found that had dates and didn't look clipped. I soon found out that a few of these were clipped, but whatever. Next I'm going to watch all of his FCW stuff. This is just a quick intro post.

PJ Black (Justin Gabriel) vs. Max Detonator - WWP 4/20/2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMPvpL6okW4
Alright match that Gabriel really shines in for the first couple minutes. The rest is pretty meh. About 20 seconds missing in the middle, but I don’t think anything happened except the heel stalling. Skippable, but has a decent showing of Gabriel’s offense at the time. *1/2

PJ Black (Justin Gabriel) vs. Xterminator - WWP Day of Judgement 9/14/2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wr2hSl65Lc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kL50AvVoT8
These two were alright, but this match was just ridiculous. Firstly, it was clipped. Then the referee was just so annoying. He couldn’t count and kept yelling at Gabriel’s manager when she was circling the ring like she was the whole match. The last 30 seconds of the first part was horrid. N/A

PJ Black (Justin Gabriel) vs. Xterminator - WWP Summer Explosion 10/19/2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUwyS_35o5U
Gabriel gets squashed even though his manager interferes. Then he challenges his manager to a match, in which she kills him with a DDT. She wins by a fast count. What did I just watch? N/A

PJ Black (Justin Gabriel) vs. Murat Bosporus - WWP Thunderstrike 12/13/2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycL-pxkZhHA&list=PL036BB6CAA51BAABA
Not a bad match. Murat is a Tazz rip off. Gabriel has a good burst of offense early before he gets nailed with suplexs for 4 minutes. Gabriel escapes a superplex and hits a swanton. He goes for his springboard moonsault, but is slipped up by some interfering guy. Murat locks in some submission and wins. Okay for what it was and in the end Gabriel looked strong. **

PJ Black (Justin Gabriel) vs. Joe E Legend - WWP Thunderstrike 1/10/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kinrJieLUCs
It showed the first minute of the match but then it was clipped through a bunch of awesome looking spots. This match looked good from all the spots alone, but then the last couple minutes seemed to be the most overbooked thing ever. There was even a fireball. I can’t rate this, since this wasn’t the whole match. N/A

PJ Black (Justin Gabriel) vs. Mikey Whiplash - WWP Thunderstrike 1/31/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEjTnbDqxxo
The match starts off with some decent counter wrestling and it stays this way for a lot of the match. It never really kicked out of the first gear, but it wasn’t bad because of that. Good drama down the finishing stretch, and Gabriel is so crisp with all of his high flying moves. The match didn’t invest me in any nearfalls or the result which held it back a bit. Best match so far. **3/4

PJ Black (Justin Gabriel) vs. Mikey Whiplash - WWP Thunderstrike 2/21/2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ0ayPRCUME
Starts off similar to the previous bout. Mikey’s control seems to consist mostly of forearms. Gabriel does a great looking reversal, doing a nice huricanrana into a pin. Gabriel has nice hope spots and does a nice little comeback with a Swanton and some great kicks. Terrible finish including Mikey eye raking the referee while in a hold, then tapping out so the referee couldn’t see. Gabriel let go the hold and Murat Bosporus tried to slide Mikey a chair. It went through his legs and Gabriel got the chair. He went to hit Mikey with it, but he dropped to the ground protecting himself. The referee thinks Gabriel hit him with the chair and calls for the DQ. Why wouldn’t he DQ Mikey for raking his eyes? Sigh. ** Alright match, but the finish really sucked. 

I'd stay away from all of this stuff. Gabriel was generally pretty good and his high flying moves looked crisp. These matches were either heavily clipped, had awful endings, or nothing special.​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I love all those generic wrestling names that Gabriel was facing.  So many projects going on right now!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only name I knew was Murat Bosporous. Thanks Chikara circa 2004 and subsequently wXw.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would watch taker/hhh HIAC to get a final say to end the convo yesterday once in for all but im in a wrestling withdrawal state right now


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ugh, never a good state to be in. Maybe watch some botchamania?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ugh, never a good state to be in. Maybe watch some botchamania?


watching some old :flair promos, sometimes they help


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Opinions on Undie-Austin JD 2001


Can't go much wrong with Stevie in '01 and Undie was much better than when he returned in '00

3/4

Link to match in my sig if anyone is interested.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NEED TO DO WRITE UPS FOR BROCK PROJECT.

TOO FUCKING LAZY.

WATCHING FULFILL YOUR FANTASY BATTLE ROYAL INSTEAD.

:datass


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

STARS~! for Extreme Rules 2013 please. Might think about watching it soon.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You didn't catch Extreme Rules Cal?

Chris Jericho Vs Fandango - *** 1/4*

Dean Ambrose Vs Kofi Kingston - *** 1/4*

Sheamus Vs Mark Henry (Strap Match) - ***

Alberto Del Rio Vs Jack Swagger (I Quit) - *1/2 **

Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns Vs Team Hell No (Tornado Tag) - *****

Randy Orton Vs The Big Show (Extreme Rules) - ***

John Cena Vs Ryback (Last Man Standing) - ** 3/4*

Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar (Steel Cage) - ******

CAL SCALE - 9.5


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

1/2 * for I Quit? lol I guess


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope. Haven't even seen Raw or SD after it yet either. I was kinda out of it last week lol. SOME people thought I was dead. Pfft, like I'd go before the alcoholic... the other alcoholic... the OTHER alcoholic... and the seemingly increasingly depressed lover of red heads :side:.

So ER looks like utter shite on paper aside from the cage... and no doubt some people hated it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big Z said:


> STARS~! for Extreme Rules 2013 please. Might think about watching it soon.


Jericho vs. Fandango - ** 1/4
Ambrose vs. Kingston - ** 3/4
Sheamus vs. Henry - **
Del Rio vs. Swagger - *** 1/2 (I'm virtually by myself in enjoying this as much as I did. Everything until the finish that is, never rewatched though)
Shield vs. Hell No - ***
Orton vs. Big Show - ** 1/2
Cena vs. Ryback - ***
Brock vs. HHH - ** 3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SaviorBeeRad™;18824386 said:


> 1/2 * for I Quit? lol I guess


Can't say I'd disagree with him... and since we have such polarizing views on the Brock/HHH and Rock/Punk matches, which have been the main discussions I've been involved in with him in awhile, that's a first I'm noticing in a long time.

STARZ for ER:

Jericho vs. Fandango - **1/2
Ambrose vs. Kingston - ***
Sheamus vs. Henry - *1/2
Del Rio vs. Swagger - 1/2*
Shield vs. Hell No - ***1/4
Orton vs. Big Show - **
Cena vs. Ryback - ***
Brock vs. HHH - **1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jericho vs Fandango - ★★½
Ambrose vs Kingston - ★★¾
Sheamus vs Henry - ★★¼
Del Rio vs Swagger - ★★½
Shield vs Hell No - ★★★
Orton vs Big Show - ★★★¼
Cena vs Ryback - ★★★½
Brock vs Triple H - ★★★★


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fandango/ Jericho **3/4 - mania is better imo
ambrose/kofi **3/4
sheamus/henry *
del rio/swagger **
hell no/shield tag ***1/2
orton/show **3/4
cena/ryback **1/2
hunter/brock ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well let's just put it this way; a ton of people overrate Ambrose/Kofi because it has AMBROSE in it and he does all of his usual crazy mannerisms and shit when in reality it was decent with some typical Kofi bullshit. Ryback/Cena seems pretty polarizing as well, I think it really comes down to how you feel about Ryback as a worker as Cena was pretty fucking terrible in it as well. I Quit match & Orton/Show are fucking trash matches that will be overrated by the fans of Orton/Del Rio anyways.

Brock/HHH is a Brock/HHH match. Polarizing as fuck.

The WWE Championship matches this year that have occurred bar Ryback/Punk TLC have all been atrocious, however I blame that on a combination of The Rock being fucking terrible & Cena seemingly not giving a single fuck anymore now that he's been put in a feud with Ryback.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might just watch the Shield tag and the cage match. Nothing else really interested me anyway besides HENRY/SHEAMUS but that seems to have sucked which sucks .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Make sure you check out Shield vs. Kofi, Bryan, & Kane from RAW the night after ER as well. Quality stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope they keep Kofi the fuck away from anyone in the Shield after this week. They don't need him dragging down their awesomeness.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

How was the shields match from last friday on smackdown? Is it worth watching?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Brock/HHH, if you liked their other two matches, you'll like the cage. It's worked very similarly to their other matches, but Heyman actually plays a role in the result this time and instead of attacking Brock's stomach, HHH goes after his leg. 

So yeah, if you liked the other matches, you'll like the cage, and if you didn't like the other matches, you won't like the cage. I personally would put Summerslam above the cage, but I've seen (crazy) people considering the Mania match as the best of the series... or anything besides last where it belongs.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Big Z said:


> I hope they keep Kofi the fuck away from anyone in the Shield after this week. They don't need him dragging down their awesomeness.


I'm not sure. Kofi seems to be working as the gap filler for when any given two top faces have an issue with The Shield. He's been the 3rd member of team Hell No, and iirc also gone with Orton and Sheamus against them. So be prepared to see "The Shield vs X, Y and Kofi" for a while


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As much as i love Brock and his current run (in terms of his overall awesomeness, fuck Trips), i kinda hope he busts a couple of more old wrestling moves out when his next match rolls around, i do miss that, but can appreciate and understand with his current persona etc the slower paced matches.

But hey, Brock is Brock and ill always love him for it 

Still havnt seen ER myself yet....


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

C'MON ZEP!

BROCK AND HIS GOAT SELLING!

GET ON THAT!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> C'MON ZEP!
> 
> BROCK AND HIS GOAT SELLING!
> 
> GET ON THAT!



Yeah mate, ill be on it this week :ex: Judging by the reviews, i may be fustrated watching Trips take it to Brock, but fuck it, im only watching it for Brock so ill forget any Trips' fuckery.

I just cant wait 'till he returns, whomever he faces, probably be Punk by the sounds of it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well it's either Punk or Cena.

That much I'm like 99 percent certain of.

I think it NEEDS to be Cena and that Cena NEEDS to drop the belt to Lesnar. Neither Brock nor Punk should lose for quite a while.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Well it's either Punk or Cena.
> 
> That much I'm like 99 percent certain of.
> 
> I think it NEEDS to be Cena and that Cena NEEDS to drop the belt to Lesnar. Neither Brock nor Punk should lose for quite a while.


That is i was thinking tbh, neither Brock or Punk should lose at this stage (fuck it, Brock should NEVER fucking lose), so im uncertain that is the way it should go,

Brock to beat Cena for the god damn belt, FFS Vince book it, grow your balls back.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Would be weird to see Brock with the belt but I'd rather him than Ryback..


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

No Mercy 2008

Matt Hardy/Mark Henry - ***1/2
Taker/Show - ***1/2
Jeff Hardy/Triple H - ****1/2
Chris Jericho/HBK - ****1/2

I love this show.

Starting my Superstars '10 project tonight. Actually gonna pull through for once.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock winning the belt and holding it hostage actually makes sense though, seeing as how he's a FUCKING HEEL.

Let him win it at Summerslam and hold it until The Survivor Series or the Rumble, where you'll have whoever the MITB winner is (Sheamus?) cash in and get a fluke win on Brock. Then transition Brock into a feud with Taker in time for Wrestlemania XXX, everybody wins.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> On Brock/HHH, if you liked their other two matches, you'll like the cage. It's worked very similarly to their other matches, but Heyman actually plays a role in the result this time and instead of attacking Brock's stomach, HHH goes after his leg.
> 
> So yeah, if you liked the other matches, you'll like the cage, and if you didn't like the other matches, you won't like the cage. I personally would put Summerslam above the cage, but I've seen (crazy) people considering the Mania match as the best of the series... or anything besides last where it belongs.


I have to disagree. I don't really care for either of their first two matches but I loved the cage match. Rewatched it yesterday and it still held up fine. No idea how the cage has made such a huge difference in the enjoyment of the match but it does seem like them being isolated from walking around ringside has made it better and perhaps improved the pacing as I felt it was really dragged down whenever they went outside of the ring. Their Mania match is worst, though. That much is true.

---------------------------

Haven't really been watching much wrestling this week due to being occupied with finishing all my damn assignments in these final weeks but I've made way for a couple of matches here and there:

Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 13/1/2006) - ★★★★
This is just a wonderful match and so well worked. Never seen Orton wrestle in such a "technical" way but he does perfectly fine and I think Cal talked about how it never feels like one is in control of the other at any point. I realized that too as the momentum never shifts and they just continue with the pace that's set after the first commercial break. I could've done without Orlando Jordan's interference but otherwise, this is awesome and definitely getting a good ranking in my Orton top 100.

Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (SummerSlam 2004) - ★★★★½
Their chemistry is just awesome. Same story here except they do switch from strictly chain wrestling by doing more signature stuff. Crowd is a bit dead but I took it in the same way as it is with Japanese crowds. It seems like they are enjoying the action as they do applaud when Benoit did six Germans in a row for instance. Lawler's commentary is absolutely awesome (made me laugh numerous times) and a memorable ending with Orton becoming the youngest World Champion. Also that suicide dive looks brutal halfway through the match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If Brock has indeed signed on for another two years, they would be dumb (WWE, surely not lol) not to give him a title run.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Good god, how amazing is summerslam 02 ? GOAT Summerslam? Just finished the opening contest Angle/Mysterio. I'll give my full ratings when I'm done. What an opener! 

:mark


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

SS 02 is GOAT but 05 is my favorite, sentimental reasons (first ppv ever ordered) xD


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Summerslam 2002 is a top 10 ppv of all time IMO.

Rey v Angle - ***3/4
Flair v Jericho - **
Eddie v Edge - ***1/2
Taker v Test - **
Booker/Goldust v Lance Storm/Christian - **1/2
Benoit v RVD - ***1/2
HBK v HHH - ****1/2
Brock v Rock - ****


Been years since I watched the full show, but those ratings are pretty close to what I remember.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would substitute brock for ryback in the title scene in a heartbeat, I agree with zep if brock truly signed a two year extension it would be crazy for wwe not to give in a title run


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just got done watching Orton vs Benoit's No Hold's Barred match on Smackdown 1/27/06. Awesome match. I'll give it ★★★★1/2 stars. Orton's performance in this match was wonderful. His display of arrogance and viciousness in the match was Orton playing his character to a T. One of Orton's better performances.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I love the Orton-Benoit NHB match, Also ****1/2 for me and far superior to their SS encounter.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fluze said:


> I love the Orton-Benoit NHB match, Also ****1/2 for me and far superior to their SS encounter.


Same here. I too found their No Hold's Barred match to be better than their Summerslam 04 encounter. Orton's performance was much better and their chemistry clicked much more in their No Holds Barred match.

Also gave their rematch for the World Heavyweight title on RAW 8/16/04 a watch. Great stuff. ★★★3/4.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

A shoe-in for SD MOTY 2005, even above Rey-Eddie, which i love.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Finally done. 

Summerslam 02

KURT ANGLE VS REY MYSTERIO:
As good as any opener you'll ever see, mysterio surprises angle with a springboard into a hurricanrana, ducks a clothesline and did a leg scissors followed by a dropkick catching Kurt off guard. Very very face paced, back and forth Rey had Angle on the top rope and went for a Hurricanrauna but Angle countered it on the canvas into an Ankle Lock and Rey tapped at 9:20. Terrific opener! ****

RIC FLAIR VS CHRIS JERICHO: 

These two start off with a good ol chopping war, with Jericho getting the upper hand he's toying and mocking Flair, match slows down a bit, then with Chris getting the upper hand again he hits flair with the figure 4! Flair taps out but has his hand on the rope, Chris" Jericho then hit the ropes after he charged towords Flair and Jericho ran into Robinson who turned his head and he missed Flair’s low blow on Y2J then hits the figure 4 on Jericho as Chris taps this match ends at 10:30

***

EDDIE GUERRERO VS EDGE: 

What a match! Eddie started with a go behind, a hammerlock, then Edge threw some head shots at Eddie and then Edge sent Eddie Guerrero head first into the canvas.After a few more go behind’s Edge got behind Eddie, until Eddie Guerrero countered that reversed it until he landed on the apron and dropped Edge down. Some good wrestling to begin. Eddie gets the best of edge for a while working his arm, eventually giving his arm a frog splash , Eddie then went for another high risk move but Edge ducked a clothesline and caught a spear. Over. Another really solid match. 

***3/4

CHRISTIAN/STORM VS BOOKER/GOLDDUST:

Unamericans getting MAJOR heat here, Goldusts selling in this match was great . Christian hits Golddust with a back breaker focussing on the back obvioussly. Cheap shots to Golddust after tagging in Storm. Goldust FINALLY makes it to the corner to tag into Booker T as the fans chant USA.Booker T then raises hell as he knocks down The Tag Champs. Booker then goes to the top turnbuckle and flies off with a missle dropkick to Christian and Ross thought they were a half a count away to getting the straps. Christian goes for the unprettier but Booker hits a face splash to Christian, and then Booker hits a scissors kick to Storm! He got both the UnAmericans with one shot. Booker T then does the Spinnerooni and then a kick to Christian as the place goes nuts! Then I’ve never seen the crowd chant that enthusiastically. Booker covered Storm and the fans chanted to 8. New tag champs at 9:37. Fun match

*** 

CHRIS BENOIT VS RVD IC TITLE:

RVD starts this match with a bunch of kicks to Benoit, this just turns into a pure flat out wrestling display, RVD’s kicks take Chris Benoit down and then RVD poses while Benoit takes a walk on the outside to re-group. Benoit really taking control with Germans and REALLY wants to make RVD tap in this one, slaps on the crossface , but RVD escapes. RVD’s realistically now getting back into the match with a series of offenseive moves with the will to win. RVD went for a monkey flip but RVD got pushed by Benoit as he hit his groin section on the top of the turnbuckle. Benoit looked for a suplex in mid-air but it was countered by RVD with a cross body. Gets on the top hits the frog splash, match over at 16:30. Just awesomeness.

****


UNDERTAKER VS TEST:

Nothing special here, I was never really high on test, one positive it's somewhat a back and forth bout, but Taker ends up getting the upper hand. Taker now charging into Test with a splash, Snake eyes and then Test kicked Taker in the gut and looked for a Pumphandle Slam but caught Test by the throat and then Test elbowed out of a chokeslam, Test looked for a big boot but Taker hit a huge chokeslam. Undertaker then went for a Last Ride but Storm came out as did Christian and Taker then proceeded to run to each side of the ring and chokeslam both Unamericans. Eventually taker hits the tombstone on test (rare at this time). Takers gets the win at 8:20

**1/4

HBK VS HHH UNSANCTIONED MATCH:

Time for MOTN, actually MOTY for me. Both guys just flat out beating the hell out of each other. The storytelling selling in this match is epic. So many spots, HHH works HBKs back, gives him a back breaker on a steal chair! HBK makes a big comeback, getting the upper hand Michaels then from the top flies off the top of the turnbuckle with a splash to Triple H through a table. Unbelievable. Michaels bringing the ladder back in the ring and Ross speculated HHH might have internal injuries from that table splash!Michaels then with another high risk move and a flying elbow off the ladder onto the HHH. HBK then tunes up the band to a huge pop, HHH slowly getting up selling his injuries turns around, blocks the superkick, goes for the pedigree , but HBK hits the sunset flip for the win at 27:30. INCREDIBLE. 

****1/2. After the match HHH proves why he's the GOAT heel smashing HBK in the back twice with the sledgehammer. 

THE ROCK VS BROCK LESNAR: 

Rock wastes no time sprinting to the ring going right after lesnar, eventually heyman chokes out rock without the ref looking. Fans chant ROCKY SUCKS. Very back and forth and fast paced match, we eventually get LET'S GO LESNAR chants. Rock hits rock bottom, but lesnar kicks out. Both men recover and Brock hits a rock bottom! Rock kicks out. Rock then threw the people’s elbow pad outside but Rock got caught by Brock as he clotiheslined him out of no where. Lesnar then goes for the F-5 and Brock missed a Rock bottom.What a sequence Brock hits the F-5. And NEW champion Brock lesnar at 14:38. Crowd goes insane. 

****

What a ppv. Prolly my top 5 of all time. 

10/10!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/hhh ss02 is a polarizing match on here,highest ive seen is ****** and lowest is ***1/2. I havent watched either in a while but I remember preferring their 2003 raw match to it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/hhh ss02 is a polarizing match on here,highest ive seen is ****** and lowest is ***1/2. I havent watched either in a while but I remember preferring their 2003 raw match to it.


Nah, Lesnar/HHH Mania is. You have people like me throwing a star at it, and I've seen a few even as low as 1/2*, to ****+ for it.

Actually Rock/Punk EC might be. I've seen DUDs thrown at it and then I've seen **** thrown at it, and a lot of different ratings in between. The Rumble match is generally considered worse but I don't think I've seen anything over ***1/2 for it since maybe when it first happened, and even then I'm not sure. I had it at ***3/4 at one point before I lowered it down to ***.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Triple H-Undie WM27 is and quote my words, the most polarizing match ever. It's literally split, I personally have it at ****1/4 - ****1/2 while others seem to think there is justice in a ** - ***1/2 rating, It's preference though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

somebody throw 1/2* at it really ? im in the **** category for it, Nah I just remembered a hbk/hhh ss 02 discussion from awhile ago and there was alot of different opinions on it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Triple H-Undie WM27 is and quote my words, the most polarizing match ever. It's literally split, I personally have it at ****1/4 - ****1/2 while others seem to think there is justice in a ** - ***1/2 rating, It's preference though.


If I get to it, im going to try and watch 27-28 tonight on the streak DVD and get a final say on both especially 28


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I don't understand how anyone has HHH/HBK ss02 under ****1/4. Just incredible. I actually almost had that match at ****3/4. MOTY for me with Lesnar/Taker HIAC right behind it.

Oh and HHH/Lesnar WM wasn't anything special IMO. **3/4


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Ratings for Cena-Undie from VEN 2003? Gonna review it now, But need to get some starz thrown in the face first, though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THREE AND A HALF STARS.

:cena4

WATCH THEIR 2004 MATCH. IT'S BETTER.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I wouldnt have hbk/hhh ss 02 that high as I remember there raw match being better. Watching some old promos and I'm coming across some flair/mr perfect stuff :mark: :mark:. the wm 8 main event build was so good "Elizabeth was MINE"


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Ratings for Cena-Undie from VEN 2003? Gonna review it now, But need to get some starz thrown in the face first, though.


★★★1/4. I love this match along with the build up with their feud being built up on respect. It's a personal favorite of mine.

Like The Beast Incarnate said though, you should also check out their match on Smackdown 6/24/04. Their match on Smackdown 8/5/03 is another encounter to check out between the two.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Fluze said:


> Ratings for Cena-Undie from VEN 2003? Gonna review it now, But need to get some starz thrown in the face first, though.


***3/4, and one of the highest at that rating. Great, great match. Cena looked like a beast in it and with Taker barely escaping with the win it was a HUGE rub for Cena. Second best match between them as well with the SD 04 at ****. Taker and Cena had the series of matches in Cena's career up until... well... HBK? I mean there may have been a few matches above Taker/Cena's best match that Cena had before his series with HBK, but Taker/Cena is probably the most consistent up to that point. And think about it, that's when Cena was still very green in the ring and Taker wasn't as great as he's been the last several years. Nowadays, at Mania where Taker gives it 110% and always produces quality matches/the MOTN, these two have true potential for a ***** match if I'm being honest. The near-falls, with the non-kayfabe chance Cena has of ending the streak, and his kayfabe credibility, would be off the chain. After the first couple of AA's, every move after that, every finisher, every applied STF, and potentially another tombstone spot like at WM27... maybe even an AA off the top rope to throw in all that... people will be holding their breath as Cena goes for the cover after those big moves. 

And it doesn't just have to be a finisher fest. They could spread the finishers out throughout 30 minutes and work at a great pace with the chemistry they have, and they could have some amazing storytelling moments (which hopefully they don't drag out like they did for the WM27 and WM28 at times). But yeah, truly a potential ***** classic, Cena's best match and hell, maybe even Taker's best match. Even has potential to be the best match of all time (which is a very bold statement, but this is all potential I'm talking). It's the biggest match WWE can produce nowadays for wrestling fans (Rock/Lesnar would be bigger due to the mainstream audience appeal) and if it doesn't end up happening at WM30 or WM31, it'd be a HUGE waste of an opportunity.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fluze said:


> Ratings for Cena-Undie from VEN 2003? Gonna review it now, But need to get some starz thrown in the face first, though.


****3/4*

Its rather great. Tremendous story in the mix - a personal favorite program of mine in '03.



Brye said:


> No Mercy 2008
> 
> Matt Hardy/Mark Henry - ***1/2
> Taker/Show - ***1/2
> ...


:mark: @ both. No Mercy '08 OWNS & Superstars 2010 is chalk full of so many great matches.



Big Z said:


> STARS~! for Extreme Rules 2013 please. Might think about watching it soon.


Posted a mega thoughts on the PPV a few pages back, but I've gone down on the LMS since Cena was shitty in it, but Ryback was pretty good imo.

Jericho vs Fandango ~ ****
Ambrose vs Kofi ~ **1/4*
Sheamus vs Henry ~ *1/2**
Swagger vs Del Rio ~ *1/2** _(DUD's are understandable)_
Hell No vs Shield ~ ***1/4*
Big Show vs Orton ~ ***
Cena vs Ryback ~ ****
Brock vs Trips ~ ******


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have a feeling that we're going to be going 5 out of 5 when it comes to shitty WWE Championship matches on PPV in a few weeks.

Hopefully we get a better headlining match than Cena/Ryback for the show ... A Punk match maybe? I don't know .... Just not Cena-Ryback getting to main event the show. Apparently Ryback & Jericho have been main eventing house shows lately in NO DQ matches, now THAT'S a feud I would certainly be down for. Ryback Vs Scrappy face works for me ... Ryback Vs Cena (or any other bigger face) does not.

Anyways, I watched Taboo Tuesday 2005 today and wanted to throw out some STARZ (& one sentence reviews on each match because I have no fucking motivation).

_Taboo Tuesday 2005_

Matt Hardy/Rey Mysterio Vs Chris Masters/Snitsky: **** 1/2*

Tyson Tomko/Rob Conway Vs Eugene/Jimmy Snuka:*DUD*

Carlito Vs Mankind: ** ½*

The Big Show/Kane Vs Trevor Murdoch & Lance Cade: ****

Fulfil Your Fantasy Divas Battle Royal: *½ **

Batista Vs Johnathan Coachman:* N/A*

Triple H Vs Ric Flair:* **** ½*

John Cena Vs Kurt Angle Vs Shawn Michaels: **** ½*

_FIVE SECOND THOUGHTS_

Matt & Rey rule the fucking universe when it comes to being the faces in peril. facing two bigger guys was the right decision here as it played to everyone's strengths, watch for the sick superplex/brainbuster botch.

Fuck Jimmy Snuka, fuck Eugene, fuck Rob Conway, fuck Tomko. Stay away.

Mick, what the FUCK are you doing going on third against Carlito? YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT. Not a hardcore match or anything & it's Foley against Carlito in the year 2005, meaning that it has it's moments but ultimately fizzles out.

FATTIES KILL THE HILLBILLIES. Pretty fucking entertaining as well for the time it lasted.

TITS.

Speaking of fatties, fucking VADER. Match was practically non existent even though a ton of people kicked up a hissyfit over it, whatever.

Greatest Cage match of all time in my honest opinion. Worked at a wonderful pace with Flair being the savy yet defiant veteran who is determined to fend off the psychotic Triple H who wants to end his career. A slam dunk pick for a must watch match and currently sits as my #3 MOTY in 2005 heading into the Survivor Series.

Fucking great main event, with Cena working Angle & HBK around like a fool while HBK & Angle play off each others natural chemistry to keep this from getting overly formulaic, which it ultimately turns into anyways.

The opener & the two main events = WATCH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's certainly a three match show, yet I've watched it A TON. I had fun with it. I've seen Taboo Tuesday 2004 a ton too. I guess I liked the gimmick the first few years or something. Who knows.

Despite Cena sucking vs Ryback the first time, I'm looking forward to the ambulance match. I suppose you can credit it to having faith in John-boy most of the time. He can potentially make up for Extreme Rules in a few weeks. I'm hoping he does. Hard to believe the callbacks vs Rock @ WM > than his entire display at Extreme Rules. Even harder to believe he was as great as he was vs Punker on RAW this year. That's the Cena we know & only want to see.

-----------

For Corey/Jack Evans 187 or anyone else who cares:

Cena vs Dolph Ladder match is a pile of meh. It goes on for a while. Some spots were contrived. Fans were hot. _(probably the only real positive)_ Match isn't anything to go out of your way to see. I can't name anything noteworthy from it. A big pile of decent blahness. ****


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HHH vs Flair :mark: :mark: :mark: 

Evan should have my Punk World Title project up in a day or so, only have about 5 matches left too watch. 

The only downside to that is 2 of them are against Rocky  I'm going against my word of never watching either of them again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You shouldn't b/c you know those matches are crap personified. 

unk2


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

No Vader post again today, stupid Memorial Day festivities, BUT I AM GUARANTEEING A POST TOMORROW, VADER/MISAWA GOODNESS


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

TITS


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> You shouldn't b/c you know those matches are crap personified.
> 
> unk2


I was thinking of just giving them a DUD rating and moving on 

unk2

This leads me to what does everyone think Punk's most underrated title matches are????


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> This leads me to what does everyone think Punk's most underrated title matches are????


I would say Punk's most underrated title match was the Triple Threat at NWO, easily ****** and a very high one at that.

I also remember him having a very good match on Smackdown vs Kane that may of been for the title, and if it was then that


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

No Mercy 2008

Taker/Show - ***3/4 (Big Show's best normal singles match)
Jeff Hardy/Triple H - **** (Jeff's second best match ever)
Chris Jericho/HBK - ****1/4

And on TT05:

Naitch/Haitch: ****
John Cena Vs Kurt Angle Vs Shawn Michaels: ***1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hell in a Cell Vs Ryback.

Not that it's a fantastic match or anything, but simply because it's a simplistic take on the GOAT match with Ryback being the unstoppable force and Punk being the little bitch who has nowhere to run or hide. It was just done quicker and was obviously less intense than you would expect. Loved the storytelling in the match, loved Ryback as the unstoppable face, and Punk was right where he needed to be in that one as the little bitch who squirmed his way out of the cell with his title in hand. I'd give it ***** for sure, when a ton of people tend to put it in the one star range, making it incredibly underrated.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

How was No Way out 2003 as a PPV? Anyone peep that? I dont even remember it at all.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ryback/Punk HIAC- ***

NWO 03:

Taker/Show- ***1/2
Rock/Hogan- *3/4

That's all I can remember off the top of my head.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> I would say Punk's most underrated title match was the Triple Threat at NWO, easily ****** and a very high one at that.
> 
> I also remember him having a very good match on Smackdown vs Kane that may of been for the title, and if it was then that


I watched both last night and thought they were both excellent. I won't give star ratings because my Punk world title match project should be uploaded in a day or two. The triple threat from NWO is one of my favourites from last year, the only negative I can find is the ending. 

Evan yer I tend to find Punk/Ryback underrated as well, due to the same content as you it has great storytelling and a shorter and less violent version of the GOAT HIAC.

:hbk


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

No Way Out 2003 is actually one of the few wrestling shows I own. I have it on VHS.

It was a pretty forgettable show other than Rock/Hogan II which was BAD.

Show/Taker and the 2 on 3 handicap match are good though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No Way Out 2003 was a show that could be classified as having a pretty good undercard (Taker Vs Show & Brock/Benoit Vs Team Angle being the obvius standout encounters there) but also having perhaps the worst triple main event of all time with Austin-Bischoff, HHH-Steiner, & Hogan-Rock II, all of which were fucking terrible (well.. Bischoff-Austin was what it was I suppose, no excuses for the others though). Watch for Taker Vs Show though, I'd probably consider that one to be the best of their entire series maybe.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oh yeah, Trips/Steiner... DUD

Taker or Lesnar is Show's best opponent. Both of them are just awesome with Show.

Taker/Show: 

NWO 03- ***1/2
ECW 06- ***1/2
Punjabi Prison- **
NM 08- ***3/4
CS 08- ****
SVS 08- *
Cage- ***1/2
SD 09- ***1/2

Lesnar/Show:

SVS 02- ***1/4
RR 03- ***
JD- ****

And well... can't recall any other matches they've had. I'd pick Taker as he has Show's best match and best normal singles match... but he's had his stinkers with Show as well, where Lesnar hasn't had anything less than a good match with Show, as well as giving Show his second best match ever.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Thanks guys. 

So all the main events for that show were bad? Yikes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep the main events on NWO '03 are a bust. The rest of the show is really consistent. Taker vs Big Show was a great match. You should def check that one out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

*Brock Lesnar Vs Big Show : The Rivalry*

Survivor Series 2002 - ******

Royal Rumble 2003 - **** 1/4*

Judgment Day 2003 - ***** 1/4*

Smackdown 6/12/2003 - **** 1/4*

Smackdown 6/19/2003 - *** 3/4*


The Stretcher match is Show's greatest match ever, while the Survivor Series bout happens to be the arguable candidate for greatest match under five minutes EVER.

Advantage - BROCK


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Yep the main events on NWO '03 are a bust. The rest of the show is really consistent. Taker vs Big Show was a great match. You should def check that one out.


Seems like a popular choice to look at. Will do. 

Anyway, once again, thanks all for the quick reviews. Was trying to decide between watching either No Way Out or Backlash from that year as those are the two I havent seen.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I might be alone here, but I think Big Show's best match is against Sheamus at Hell in a Cell 2012. *****1/2*

Yes, it's that awesome.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The Beast Incarnte sure loves overrating Brock. , Taker-Show LMS is definitely above Brock-Show Stretcher, and Show's best match overall.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Fandango said:


> I might be alone here, but I think Big Show's best match is against Sheamus at Hell in a Cell 2012. *****1/2*
> 
> Yes, it's that awesome.


That one's a top 5 singles matches for Show for me. ***3/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd take Brock vs Show stretcher over Taker vs Show last man standing too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

might give the brock/show jd a watch. Just watched hhh/taker HIAC and it still holds up for me *****. A little tired so I dont want to go int great lengths but you have to look beyond the actual match. It is a great example that a great storytelling can propel a match to greatness.Add in the 3 superstars in the ring. at mania and a hot crowd for an open arena and good happens. Still love this match, Me and ATF I think are the only one who have it at *****


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I havent seen Brock/Show Stretcher match for along time but I'd take it over Taker/Show as well. 

For what's its worth I'm with Faaaaannnndaaaannngggooo. At this moment i would have vs Sheamus at HIAC as his best match ever. ***** 1/4* for me, obviously I need to rewatch some matches but for the moment it's Shows best match for me. 

@*******, for a live experience Taker/HHH was like ************** it was amazing. Something ill always remember, the crowd was insane and everyone was off their seats for practically the entire match. On rewatch when I got home from Mania, it just didnt have the same aura for me that it did from first watch, still an amazing match I have it ***** 1/2* and was number 10 on my Wm countdown. I will never argue anyone having it ******* though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Sheamus vs. Big Show is the epitome of what a big man match should be. You don't need mat wrestling, high flying moves, cool looking spots. All you need is two big BULLS going at it with their fists, some GREAT looking power moves, BELIEVABLE NEARFALLS, and INTENSITY and you have a fucking awesome match.

One of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> I havent seen Brock/Show Stretcher match for along time but I'd take it over Taker/Show as well.
> 
> For what's its worth I'm with Faaaaannnndaaaannngggooo. At this moment i would have vs Sheamus at HIAC as his best match ever. ***** 1/4* for me, obviously I need to rewatch some matches but for the moment it's Shows best match for me.
> 
> @*******, for a live experience Taker/HHH was like ************** it was amazing. Something ill always remember, the crowd was insane and everyone was off their seats for practically the entire match. On rewatch when I got home from Mania, it just didnt have the same aura for me that it did from first watch, still an amazing match I have it ***** 1/2* and was number 10 on my Wm countdown. I will never argue anyone having it ******* though.


I understand you, watching live on stream I thought it was *********** can only imagine that feeling actually being there like u. This is my third time watching it, second exactly the same as u it went down to ****1/2 but this time I remember that feeling and it went back to 5

@ the show/Sheamus really gotta watch that hiacmaybe tomorrow, I remember I was in the dorm and my roommate forced my to some dance party or sumthing and I missed the whole ppv.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Show vs Sheamus at HIAC is tremendous but I wouldn't dub that as Show's best match either. It could be the stretcher match for me. Or it could be one vs Eddie on Smackdown. Think circa 2004 when Big Show was "fired" post match. His performance in the match was stellar coupled with having the benefit of working vs Guerrero. I know it's a small margin, but Undertaker vs Show from No Mercy '08 is above vs Sheamus I too. All ******+ on the ol snowflakes scale.

Splitting hairs really. You can't go wrong with any & only shows how actually GREAT Big Show is and has been for the majority of his career. Once he hit his stride he didn't look back.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

While not in his top five matches or anything, Show's defining match to me would probably be his Wrestlemania XXIV encounter against Floyd Mayweather. I mean, he took this guy who had never wrestled once in his entire career despite being one of the greatest single sport athletes of the generation, and he worked his magic on the grandest stage of them all in the biggest match on the card, and turned it into a borderline fucking masterpiece. Big Show's monster performance against the 150 pound Mayweather was truly a performance that should be talked about for ages, but probably will become lost in the shuffle of big time Mania matches.

It's not very often that an individual turns in their greatest career performance in their BIGGEST match.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I understand you, watching live on stream I thought it was *********** can only imagine that feeling actually being there like u. This is my third time watching it, second exactly the same as u it went down to ****1/2 but this time I remember that feeling and it went back to 5
> 
> @ the show/Sheamus really gotta watch that hiacmaybe tomorrow, I remember I was in the dorm and my roommate forced my to some dance party or sumthing and I missed the whole ppv.


Yer watching it live was incredible, I wanna endorse it again but Takers Wm entrance is something every wrestling fan should witness live. I think I've watched it 2 or 3 times since then, I still love the match but the beginning was too boring for me personally, that's the only knock on the match I have. 

Yer I recommend you watch Sheamus/Show such a great match. Hopefully no dance party comes up this time :lmao


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Show vs Sheamus at HIAC is tremendous but I wouldn't dub that as Show's best match either. It could be the stretcher match for me. Or it could be one vs Eddie on Smackdown. Think circa 2004 when Big Show was "fired" post match. His performance in the match was stellar coupled with having the benefit of working vs Guerrero. I know it's a small margin, but Undertaker vs Show from No Mercy '08 is above vs Sheamus I too. All ******+ on the ol snowflakes scale.
> 
> Splitting hairs really. You can't go wrong with any & only shows how actually GREAT Big Show is and has been for the majority of his career. Once he hit his stride he didn't look back.




I prefer Show/Taker LMS Cyber Sunday 08. So underrated. ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@shawnmichaelsisgod will do Ill give it a watch and haha yea it was brutial but its college and some good looking females were in attendance


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I might be in a minority here, but does anyone else hope PTP gets a little extra exposure on Raw again this week? I find their gimmick hilarious and I like both of them in the ring. Really wouldn't mind them getting some relevant time this summer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PTP's could hopefully be in turn for some exposure. I wouldn't object b/c I've been a fan since the moment they were put together.

Down in agreeing with TBI on Show vs Mayweather. Show made a match I'm assuming most didn't give a damn about into something interesting. It was all on him. A truly great performance for a match that was a very HUGE deal for the company & beyond. WWE chose Show and it wasn't a mistake. The wisest choice ever.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> While not in his top five matches or anything, Show's defining match to me would probably be his Wrestlemania XXIV encounter against Floyd Mayweather. I mean, he took this guy who had never wrestled once in his entire career despite being one of the greatest single sport athletes of the generation, and he worked his magic on the grandest stage of them all in the biggest match on the card, and turned it into a borderline fucking masterpiece. Big Show's monster performance against the 150 pound Mayweather was truly a performance that should be talked about for ages, but probably will become lost in the shuffle of big time Mania matches.
> 
> It's not very often that an individual turns in their greatest career performance in their BIGGEST match.


I pimp this match out whenever I can and I'm glad to see someone else give it some love. As far as I'm concerned, it's the best match involving a celebrity EVER. 

Not only was Big Show's performance AMAZING, but FLOYD had a great showing too. The guy played a fantastic heel and really knew how to work the crowd. Him coming to the ring with bills falling from the sky was an amazing entrance. Him trying to avoid contact for most of the match and trying to get his posse involved whenever he could is GOAT level heelnees. 

If this whole boxing thing comes to an end for Floyd, he should bring his talents to SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really enjoy the Show/Mayweather match and I even liked the feud. Really fun stuff. Didn't have any expectations into the match but it was booked really well and Mayweather took a few more bumps than I expected.

WM 24 = GOAT WM


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> @shawnmichaelsisgod will do Ill give it a watch and haha yea it was brutial but its college and some good looking females were in attendance


That's understandable then, I'm envious that I don't attend college in America, it's pretty crappy down under. As well as my love for American girls. Call me Sam much easier to write 

I'm hoping as well, the more I see of the Primetime Players, especially Titus the better.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Brye said:


> I might be in a minority here, but does anyone else hope PTP gets a little extra exposure on Raw again this week? I find their gimmick hilarious and I like both of them in the ring. Really wouldn't mind them getting some relevant time this summer.


I fucking love the Prime Time Players. It's a damn shame that they aren't being used to their fullest potential. I hope the booking team saw TITUS' match against Sheamus last week and start to rethink their god awful treatment of the PTP and start giving them their rightful push towards the Tag Team titles

The match for anyone that hasn't seen it. DAT bark from TITUS at 1:54 :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Not a huge fan of PTP, but I like Titus and think he could go somewhere.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

The thing about Show-Mayweather was NWO right before Mania. Show wore one right on the nose, broke it iirc. He came back after a long break in fantastic shape, and Show just did pro wrestling 101 and sold that match like the crafty veteran he is. 

Agreed, that's all Show. And i'm not the biggest Paul Wight fan either.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

TITUS bringing entertainment via Twitter:

Titus O'Neil ‏@TitusONeilWWE 4m
Just pulled into Calgary for @WWE #Raw tomorrow. Hungry as a Member of Tons of Funk at a 5year olds Birthday party!! #EatingUpAlltheFood


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So we gonna get Titus/Clay or Titus/Tensai?

Meh, maybe at least he'll win.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show takes a douchey boxer, slaps him around, makes him look like a million bucks, & ends up creating a quality match out of nothing. The man knows what he's doing in the ring. 

Big Show appreciation thread.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

After some re-watching I think the Eddie match is his clear career match. Might be his career performance, too. Completely outstanding match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/hhh ss02 is a polarizing match on here,highest ive seen is ******** and lowest is ***1/2. I havent watched either in a while but I remember preferring their 2003 raw match to it.


6 stars!? Shit, and I thought I loved it... 



Obfuscation said:


> Despite Cena sucking vs Ryback the first time, I'm looking forward to the ambulance match. I suppose you can credit it to having faith in John-boy most of the time. He can potentially make up for Extreme Rules in a few weeks. I'm hoping he does. Hard to believe the callbacks vs Rock @ WM > than his entire display at Extreme Rules. Even harder to believe he was as great as he was vs Punker on RAW this year. That's the Cena we know & only want to see.
> 
> -----------
> 
> ...


You're looking forward to that AWFUL gimmick of a match? Shame on you...

And (Y), figured that's how it went down.



WrestlingforEverII said:


> How was No Way out 2003 as a PPV? Anyone peep that? I dont even remember it at all.


The first half of the show is quality. Hardy/Jericho, Hardy/Kidman, Handicap Match, Taker/Show, but the main events are just trash. Watch Austin/Bischoof for comedic purposes and that is all.



Fluze said:


> Ratings for Cena-Undie from VEN 2003? Gonna review it now, But need to get some starz thrown in the face first, though.


I'm late, but whatever. *** 1/2, really good stuff on a stakced show.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I remember reading a great review by Yeah1993 on Undie-Angle 2003, back in my lurking days. 

Can anybody point me towards it? Wanna take another gander at it.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels {WrestleMania XXIV}: *****3/4*

I hadn't watched this in years before today morning and what can I say? There are just some nights that everything clicks. Chi-Town Rumble level pacing, unbelievably good storytelling, crisp and fluid in-ring action (save for two spots) and an amazing atmosphere.

The wrestling in this match is so simple and to the point but seeing as it's the Ric Flair showcase, it's enough. Shawn is the perfect fodder for Flair to do his tricks on. I can't believe I soured on this a bit on my last watch in 08 because there is absolutely nothing to criticize except Shawn's second moonsault not hitting perfectly and the bridge pin lacking a bit of finesse.

The storytelling in this match is among the finest I've witnessed. Something I never noticed before is how Shawn continues trying to finish Flair in the early going without having to pin him. The two outside spots are clear indication that Michaels wants a count-out victory without blood on his hands, following which he goes for a submission victory so that Flair calls it quits on his career himself. Despite his best efforts, there is a part of him that doesn't want to be the one responsible for Flair's retirement.

The way this mindset evolves into the final "I'm sorry, I love you" is immaculate. And you can tell that Michaels regrets his decision the moment Charles Robinson's hand strikes the mat for the three. But he can't take it back. He's gonna have to continue to wrestle with the regret for at least two more years, but that's a different story...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> I remember reading a great review by Yeah1993 on Undie-Angle 2003, back in my lurking days.
> 
> Can anybody point me towards it? Wanna take another gander at it.


'back in my lurking days' made me think I wrote it years ago, until I looked at your join date. 

If this is what you're thinking of, here's what I said about it-



> Kurt Angle v. The Undertaker (SmackDown 9/3/03)
> I actually thought this was better than the Lesnar HIAC and was an excellent match. This is pretty much how the Benoit match should have gone, and is what I kind of wanted from it. Angle wasn't escaping sharpshooter attempts, but was escaping Taker's gigantic-ness and Taker's 'workover' was way more fun here than it was in the Lesnar HIAC. When they hit the finishing run I didn't stop digging it. The continuous ankle lock actually felt like Angle was escaping all of Taker's moves and going back to the injured ankle. The reversals also came off here how I wanted them to come off during Angle v. Benoit, as the Last Ride into Ankle Lock counter actually looked really cool and exciting. Taker was awesome; he sold the ankle pretty damn greatly in between offensive moves, and hell, during his OWN offensive moves (looked like he could barely stand upright during the last ride). I fucking loved the spot where Taker had Angle by the pulled-down straps and was punching him like a paddleball or something. There was a moment when I thought 'ah they're going to overdo the finishers', but Lesnar came pretty much at that exact point. I'm not going to praise that finish, but I'd actually prefer that than finisher overkill + a clean finish. I think THIS is far and away the pinnacle of Kurt Angle Main Event Wrestling, and I could see myself mayyyyybe voting for it if not for the finish. Best Taker match as the biker, easily, and it might actually be WWE MOTY.


NOTE - I mentioned Lesnar/Taker and Angle/Benoit because I watched and talked about them the day before
OTHER NOTE - "it might actually be WWE MOTY." Forget 'might'; it is.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels {WrestleMania XXIV}: *****3/4*
> 
> I hadn't watched this in years before today morning and what can I say? There are just some nights that everything clicks. Chi-Town Rumble level pacing, unbelievably good storytelling, crisp and fluid in-ring action (save for two spots) and an amazing atmosphere.
> 
> ...


Fantastic review of my favourite match of all time :mark: :mark: :mark: 

:hbk

Putting bias thinking aside, I still think its the MOTY for 2008 for WWE. Everything you discussed in the review, is absolutely spot in.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

One more for the road.

Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena {WrestleMania 23}: *****1/2*

Best WWE Title match at Mania, with its greatest strength being in its structure. Shawn regresses into his DX persona from a decade ago, playing that jackass character perfectly. He knows that Triple H underestimated Cena last year and submitted in the process.

As JR put it, Shawn wrestles a near-perfect match here. The only mistake he makes is the missed shoulder block in the corner, which ended up busting him open. The psychology in this match is top notch. The selling that people always complain about is a non-issue as Cena keeps going back to it when pressure builds. Plus, after Shawn's eyesight is red, I don't think he even remembered that he'd hurt Cena's leg early on.

Great wrestling without going over the top. They keep every moment interesting and do it with as minimal action as possible that the 28 minutes just feel like 15 at most. The ref bump in this match is probably the best ever. I mean, you can understand a referee being knocked out from Sweet Chin Music. No finisher whore-outs whatsoever. Both kick outs happen due to delayed covers that neither feel weakened because of it. I consider this the standard of a big championship match.

I see you lurking, vivalabrave


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're looking forward to that AWFUL gimmick of a match? Shame on you...
> 
> And (Y), figured that's how it went down.


Kane vs Shane in '03 RULES ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE. The Cena vs Kane match...well I've never hated it. You know what, I should put that on right now and see how it fares. I remember two spots and that's it. I know I like Kane vs Cena from Rumble a lot. I'll be cautiously optimistic for Cena vs Ryback.

Yeah it wasn't a match where either got to shine in it. Cena vs Dolph one on one _(not from 2013 b/c those were terrible)_ were much better matches than this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> *Brock Lesnar Vs Big Show : The Rivalry*
> 
> Survivor Series 2002 - ******
> 
> ...


Ya could also add a couple of the triple threats - Brock/Show/Angle (Vengeance 2003) and one on SD invloving Taker/Show/Brock (i think)


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

chamber of horrors..what a chaotic match :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best part: either Cactus Jack almost getting smashed by the electric chair and having one of the Steiners needing to push him out of the way. Or the random masked guy inside a casket who gets the crap beat out of him the entire match.

:lmao @ all of it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Whatd you think of the rest of the show?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember most of the card being bad. Luger vs Simmons rings as good as does Eaton vs Taylor. I sadly remember zero about Austin vs Rhodes. Hoping that one is good as their Starrcade '93 match is not.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Austin/Rhodes was decent. I couldn't be bothered to watch Simmons/Luger though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh shit, Havoc 91 is the show with Austin/Rhodes. I ADORE Austin/Rhodes. pretty sure when the WCW list was done I had it near 75 or something.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Night of Champions 2010:

Kofi/Ziggler- ***1/2
Show/Punk- *
Bryan/Miz- ****, I may overrate this but I just love this match
McCool/Melina- **
Kane/Taker- ***
Tag Team Turmoil- *
RAW Package Match- ***1/4

Overall thoughts: Great show here with Bryan/Miz being the best match. Miz's best match, imo.Also another good Kofi/Ziggler one and a fun main-event


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Speaking of NOC, Punk-Triple gets a DUD from me, everything from the interference to the spots define the words, clustery and sloppy. Their SD 2010 match is the real gem, ***1/2 out of me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I wouldn't give it a DUD but I was very disappointed. A dream match I'd wanted for ages but it really suffered from being no DQ and became a shoddy brawl. Not to mention the interferences and whatnot. Still hoping for another match between the two to make up for that.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

On the Big Show topic, his performance in the Taker/Show vs. Kane/Pac Summerslam 99 match was absolutely awesome. MVP of the match in one of the top MOTYCs. Yes it is 1999, but the point still stands. :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> On the Big Show topic, his performance in the Taker/Show vs. Kane/Pac Summerslam 99 match was absolutely awesome. MVP of the match in one of the top MOTYCs. Yes it is 1999, but the point still stands. :side:


Coincidentally, that match is available in my sig


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Kane vs Shane in '03 RULES ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE. The Cena vs Kane match...well I've never hated it. You know what, I should put that on right now and see how it fares. I remember two spots and that's it. I know I like Kane vs Cena from Rumble a lot. I'll be cautiously optimistic for Cena vs Ryback.
> 
> Yeah it wasn't a match where either got to shine in it. Cena vs Dolph one on one _(not from 2013 b/c those were terrible)_ were much better matches than this.


I thought Cena/Kane sucked ass, but we'll see what you think. haha. I just can't look forward to a gimmick that I think is much worse than LMS, especially when Cena was so shitty in the former.



Fluze said:


> Speaking of NOC, Punk-Triple gets a DUD from me, everything from the interference to the spots define the words, clustery and sloppy. Their SD 2010 match is the real gem, ***1/2 out of me.


I'm the opposite. I Love Punk/Trips, simply because of the chaotic nature and the overbooking. It feels like a genuine Attitude Era match and it's just fun to sit back and enjoy. **** for me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels {WrestleMania XXIV}: *****3/4*
> 
> I hadn't watched this in years before today morning and what can I say? There are just some nights that everything clicks. Chi-Town Rumble level pacing, unbelievably good storytelling, crisp and fluid in-ring action (save for two spots) and an amazing atmosphere.
> 
> ...


:mark: :mark: :mark: my love for this match is indescribable, My all time favorite match as well as Sam's I wrote a review about it a couple pages ago. A pure masterpiece, work of art at its finest, clash of Gods, Shawn's performance in the match is Godly, looking back I want to give it ************** but ill be reasonable and give it a ****1/2+. Not the BESt match ever but Its so special, and just brings sheer joy to me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Kane vs Shane in '03 RULES ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE. The Cena vs Kane match...well I've never hated it. You know what, I should put that on right now and see how it fares. I remember two spots and that's it. I know I like Kane vs Cena from Rumble a lot. I'll be cautiously optimistic for Cena vs Ryback.
> 
> Yeah it wasn't a match where either got to shine in it. *Cena vs Dolph one on one (not from 2013 b/c those were terrible) were much better matches than this.*


The Ladder and HIAC were garbage but I remember the #1 raw of 2013 match being decent, some guy on youtbe considered their ladder match at TLC match of the year, if I knew how to post a link I do it


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> :mark: :mark: :mark: my love for this match is indescribable, My all time favorite match as well as Sam's I wrote a review about it a couple pages ago. A pure masterpiece, work of art at its finest, clash of Gods, Shawn's performance in the match is Godly, looking back I want to give it ************** but ill be reasonable and give it a ****1/2+. Not the BESt match ever but Its so special, and just brings sheer joy to me.


The video package was pretty damn good. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SFBHpZiMCWE


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

King Sheamus vs. John Morrison {TLC 2010}: *****1/2*

A contract is hanging above the ring. A little strange but I'll bite. This match is frickin fantastic. Sheamus plays the role of wrecking machine to perfection, a near invincible heel destroyer, and John Morrison is the valiant babyface fighting against this seemingly impregnable creature.

This match is 19 minutes long and there's ZERO downtime. I mean, yeah they sell the spots but it's not like they're laying around without movement, trying to catch their breath. The spots are really innovative and logical. They flow from one to the next without leaving you scratching your head. The leg work is excellent and Morrison's selljob is unworldly. The guy hops the rungs of the ladder on 1 leg to sell the injury. I miss Morrison.

Right now I feel comfortable calling this the best ladder match WWE has ever put on. I'm so glad they didn't go the PARKOUR route and instead wrestled a smart clash of characters with Morrison coming off looking like the biggest hero on planet earth. Fuck, they should've just had Miz drop the title to him in January and we could've had an awesome Morrison/Cena main event for Mania instead. But I guess the Rock would've ruined that too?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> King Sheamus vs. John Morrison {TLC 2010}: *****1/2*
> 
> A contract is hanging above the ring. A little strange but I'll bite. This match is frickin fantastic. Sheamus plays the role of wrecking machine to perfection, a near invincible heel destroyer, and John Morrison is the valiant babyface fighting against this seemingly impregnable creature.
> 
> ...


Morrison was always a bit hit and miss for me. Good limb seller but I was never a fan of his development into a strike orientated offence. Something about the way he executed it always irked me and stopped me from getting fully invested in it. Was a shame because he's a very good seller and generally worked a good structure and layout as a face, he just for whatever reason lacked that imaginative and energetic comeback to complete his act.

That being said, I adore that match and consider it brilliant. Avoids all the pitfalls of a conventional WWE ladder match (lazy setups and choreographed spots, a plodding pace where little happens and the match revolves around 4 or 5 big spots with no discernable structure or theme in between to hold the match together) and just accentuates the strengths with immaculate pacing and character work. Sheamus gives maybe his career performance and finds unique and creative ways to use the ladder to hinder and exploit Morrison's edge in terms of agility and they build and time each Morrison hope spot to perfection. 

With someone like Morrison and his offence you always run the risk of some very 'flashy' counters but I thought they did a shockingly good job in making the counters look impressive but realistic and grounded and making Morrison look resilient and opportunistic. Morrison's slow climbing is attributed to the limbwork so gives a reason for the slow pace which builds drama and ever increasing tension and they smartly build continuously to the big spot of the match (the dual spill to the floor through the ladder) and have that effectively be the climax of the match. All the counters by Morrison were timed impeccably, Sheamus in control used the ladder creatively and kept his limbwork focused and consistent, the selling and focus kept a constant theme which built to each counter and notable spot to keep the work grounded and never saw the match venturing away into a spotfest. Excellent match.


Morrison/Bourne 4/14/09 from ECW is a very good match to showcase Morrison's ability as a heel as well imo. Bourne is naturally a wonderful babyface on top or working underneath but Morrison uses his strke orientated offence to its fullest and shockingly comes off as vicious and aggressive in a way I didn't believe he could. The dynamic also allows Morrison to visually sell frustration and contrasting emotions which adds to the finishing stretch.

Hardy/Finlay 6/22/07 is another I'd love to hear your thoughts on. One of the finest limb selling performances of the decade by Hardy, excellent work overall from Finlay who really excels once he dissects the leg, smart progression from a feeling out and largely basic match into the sudden attack and annihilation of Matt's leg etc. Top 5 Smackdown match at the minimum, likely top three.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH MAN.

I had a dream last night that I turned on RAW & the main event was Miz Vs Brock Lesnar. I got super fucking hyped because BROCK was performing on live televison, only for Miz to completely squash BROCK and give him the SCF on the steel steps for the victory. The rest of the dream dealt with my inner depression over what I had just seen as well as the question of whether or not I could ever watch wrestling again after seeing something so stupid .

ANYWAYS, Morrison-Sheamus is pretty much my clear cut number 2 match of 2010 behind the Top 5 of all time TAKER VS HBK from Wrasslemania. It's funny because literally everything you mentioned as being a positive of the match (avoiding the pitfalls of a regular WWE spotfest, excellent pacing, elite storytelling), happens to be the complete opposite of the last ladder match we've seen in Cena Vs Dolph from TLC. Morrison/Sheamus would probably be secondary for me to Benoit/Jericho in terms of singles ladder matches but FUCK is it ever good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That's not a dream, that's a nightmare :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

When it comes to ladders I still got to go with orignal (not techncially the first ever one) in hbk/razor wm 10, Its a spotfest but a very clean and exciting one


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk Vs Triple H is a tricky one as I haven't seen it in a while, but I THINK I agree with Corey's sentiments that the match has a very chaotic and overbooked nature behind it which is extremely reminiscent of a main event Attitude Era match. Whether this is a good thing or a bad things is ultimately for you to decide, but I lean more towards the good for the main reason that this is my definitive dream match; two of my favorite performers ever in the main event of a PPV, even main eventing over John Cena winning his 10th WWE Championship. With that being said, I think the match was still a tad bit disappointing for me as I expected some kind of crazy classic, but what we got was indeed pretty fucking awesome to say the least. Give Punk-Triple H a co main event spot at Wrestlemania XXX and give Punk-Brock time to develop and we'd have gotten the three biggest dream matches for myself individually (HHH-Brock, HHH-Punk, Punk-Brock) that are available.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh shit, Havoc 91 is the show with Austin/Rhodes. I ADORE Austin/Rhodes. pretty sure when the WCW list was done I had it near 75 or something.


Well now I have to relive it. Yeah1993.



FluxCapacitor said:


> On the Big Show topic, his performance in the Taker/Show vs. Kane/Pac Summerslam 99 match was absolutely awesome. MVP of the match in one of the top MOTYCs. Yes it is 1999, but the point still stands. :side:


:hb

Good man. Legit do believe this is the only post in this thread & the last one that isn't by me putting this match over.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I thought Cena/Kane sucked ass, but we'll see what you think. haha. I just can't look forward to a gimmick that I think is much worse than LMS, especially when Cena was so shitty in the former.


I've seen it about twice and had no problems both times. I watched Liger vs Morrison instead last night so the third watch for Cena vs Kane will have to wait till later today.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> King Sheamus vs. John Morrison {TLC 2010}: *****1/2*
> 
> A contract is hanging above the ring. A little strange but I'll bite. This match is frickin fantastic. Sheamus plays the role of wrecking machine to perfection, a near invincible heel destroyer, and John Morrison is the valiant babyface fighting against this seemingly impregnable creature.
> 
> ...


YES x1000. That match is so friggin grand. I love how it happened with two guys who always got written off by some fans as "not being that good". Sheamus & Morrison proved everyone wrong that night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Teddy Long Vs Eric Bichoff

TEDDY JUKING N' JIVING.

FIVE STARS.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Had to miss Raw last week and just watched the Curtis Axel debut. That crowd gave zero shits. You could feel the disappointment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Team Raw Vs Team Smackdown

One of my all time favorites, let's see how it holds up as I haven't seen it in literally 4 or 5 years.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Morrison- **** and second best match of Sheamus' career. This was the first time I was ever impressed by a Sheamus match (not that all his matches before this were bad or anything, but this one stuck out as him potentially being a great in-ring worker). 

As far as the best ladder match ever? Benoit/Jericho RR 2001 takes that for me and is at ****3/4 (and number 10 match of all time currently).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The aura of Mr.Perfect is fine for me, gonna give sheamus/show HIAC a watch before or after I go to the mall

Edit: I was enjoying the main event before HHH breakdown


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Love that Raw/Smackdown Elimination match and the fact that I was there live doesn't hurt. I have it at ****.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

a ladder match not mentioned alot is hbk/razor summerslam


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never seen Survivor Series 2005 outside of Flair vs Game.

Didn't seem like I was missing much except for the main event, tbhayley.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Will have to watch the Sheamus/Morrison ladder match as I literally can't remember a thing about it. As Gamblor said, I consider the Jericho/Benoit ladder match to be the best.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought the touch of his dad's music in Curtis' entrance theme was a very nice touch.


----------



## ThatWeirdGuy (Feb 21, 2011)

It does make good sense that they spliced some of Mr Perfect's theme into Axel's. Very subtle how they want to associate him with his father but not just make him a clone of him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Heyman splitting away from Punk is inevitable at this point in all honesty.

There's NO WAY that come Summerslam, he's managing all three of them in separate matches.


----------



## HiddenViolence (Jan 15, 2011)

I'm interested to know what match people think has been the best so far this year in WWE. For me it's got to be Punk vs Cena on RAW a couple of months ago.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SmokeAndMirrors said:


> I'm interested to know what match people think has been the best so far this year in WWE. For me it's got to be Punk vs Cena on RAW a couple of months ago.


You got it right there.

It also happens to be the greatest match in RAW history as well.

Just watched the Team Raw Vs Team Smackdown Survivor Series 2005 match up, & I'm proud to say that it has reached my list of WWF/WWE matches at *****+* (BARELY, Almost never gave it to the match because of some HBK shenanigans that I never enjoyed). It's also the last classic Survivor Series match that I have over three and a half stars if that really means anything at this point. Taker coming back with that badass beard and killing everybody was fucking ballin' as well. Fitting, seeing as how Armageddon is next and I get to watch the conclusion of the Orton-Taker feud. I still have to watch Haitch Vs Naitch from this show first though, should really get on that right now.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

For me, it's a hard choice between Punk vs Cena 2/25/13, Punk vs Taker WrestleMania 29, and Punk vs Jericho 2/4/13. I'll go with Punk/Cena though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My favorite is looking to be The Shield vs Hell No & Kofi Kingston from last week's RAW. _(feels so weird throwing Kofi and "my favorite match" in the mix. I'm like the guy who can't stand him the most...)
_
I got a nice list of the ones I've loved this year.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Between Punk/Cena and Punk/Taker for me. Despite Punk being half injured and now taking time off he's still been awesome so far this year. The Jericho match That's Irrelevant mentioned is very good too. Shit, still haven't watched The Shield/HellNoKofi match yet. Completely forgot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch it and witness Rollins bump off his head while taking a clothesline. 

just one of the many fabulous tidbits of the match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still haven't seen ER, but I did catch up on Raw. What a disappointment with Heyman's new guy. Curtis Axel is awful . He's just so fucking DULL. His look, his mic work and his in ring work. Dullis Dullel should have been his name. Dull cunt.

Why does Ryback randomly have his own Ambulance now? Does he rent it or something? 

Other stuff happened. Very little TV these days, not just including wrestling is really starting to bore the fuck out of me. Raw sucks 99.9% of the 3 hours. SD sucks most of the show. Impact sucks too. I pretty much gave up on Bones half way though the latest season. Haven't seen the last 8 eps of CSI (Las Vegas). Not Going Out just isn't the same without Tim Vine, and Daisy being a slightly better version of one of the worst characters ever isn't helping either. Community was half and half the last season, and honestly I'm not thrilled about it coming back. Let it die before it gets actively bad. TV sucks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big Z said:


> Not Going Out just isn't the same without Tim Vine


Glad it aint just me who thinks that 

Its been the weakest of the series' for that reason, Vine baby.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ryback is a licensed paramedic obviously, didn't you know that RYBACK RULEZ STOOPID?

Wonder how the Payback card is going to come together. My realistic wish list with Cena-Ryback looking to main event & Henry looking injured and out (BOOURNS) is to get Shield some fresh opponents, Bryan-Kane a singles match (maybe, but just a one off and let Bryan go his own way afterwards), Dolph Vs somebody who isn't Al-Bore-To, & Sheamus in a match that actually has some potential FFS.

Oh, & PUNK.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MOTY right now would be Taker/Punk, with only the Shield tag on Raw last week coming close. Punk/Cena from Raw would be in the top 5 me thinks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thinking WWE might go the lazy approach and have Dolph beat Del Rio on PPV. I figured Orton would be his next challenger only b/c he has zero going for him and I can't see him being grouped up vs The Shield again.

Safe to say my answer to the World Championship picture pardon Dolph is "who gives a damn". b/c I don't currently. Too bad Dolph vs Sheamus has happened a ton or else I'd be asking for that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dolph-Del Rio is fucking gross.

As much as I can't stand Orton these days, Orton/Sheamus Vs Reigns/Rollins & Jericho Vs Ambrose makes a ton of sense at this point. Helps to plant the seeds for the Summerslam match between Orton & Sheamus while Ambrose gets a rub from Jericho in what would no doubt be a great match.

However, knowing WWE they'll probably do Miz Vs Ambrose instead.

EDIT: Apparently Heyman & Axel will be on the Highlight Reel tonight, meaning that Jericho shall be jobbing to Axel soon :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're still on this Orton vs Sheamus stuff? :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, don't get me wrong; fuck Sheamus Vs Orton.

I just think that WWE will do it at some point or another.

There are only two individuals in the WWE at the moment who are capable of getting a decent match out of Orton at this point; Daniel Bryan & CM Punk. Orton would probably pull his usual bullshit babyface comeback against BROCK which would ruin the fucking match. Brock having to sell that shitty clothesline and that shitty DDT. Fuck that.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont remember punk/y2j being all that great


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> No, don't get me wrong; fuck Sheamus Vs Orton.
> 
> I just think that WWE will do it at some point or another.
> 
> There are only two individuals in the WWE at the moment who are capable of getting a decent match out of Orton at this point; Daniel Bryan & CM Punk. Orton would probably pull his usual bullshit babyface comeback against BROCK which would ruin the fucking match. Brock having to sell that shitty clothesline and that shitty DDT. Fuck that.




Kane gave Orton a great match, an even better one than punk did. 

Kane/Orton ER: ***3/4

Punk/Orton WM: ***1/2

Sheamus/Orton would put on a real good match. Sheamus is ridiculously underrated in the ring. Just give these two a good 15-20 minutes and I'm sure they can put on a **** match. They showed some good chemistry at HIAC 10


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton sucks though .

I'm not doubting Sheamus and his ability in the ring at all, but the truth is the truth; rton has become a cancer in the WWE at the moment; puts in minimal effort and cranks out lackluster match after lackluster match, yet gets to be fed promising midcarders on a weekly basis.

& this is coming from somebody who WORSHIPPED Orton from 2005 - 2007.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive already seen dolph/del rio enough, they have had great matches and Ive pimped them more than anybody here but its tiring, I heard this earlier today how about dolph/christian at summerslam


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> No, don't get me wrong; fuck Sheamus Vs Orton.
> 
> I just think that WWE will do it at some point or another.
> 
> There are only two individuals in the WWE at the moment who are capable of getting a decent match out of Orton at this point; Daniel Bryan & CM Punk. Orton would probably pull his usual bullshit babyface comeback against BROCK which would ruin the fucking match. Brock having to sell that shitty clothesline and that shitty DDT. Fuck that.


People have been beating that scenario down since like late 2012. I think people should just stop with it and this "Orton heel turn" crap until it actually does happen.Which I still don't think it will anytime soon. Doesn't make the ones thinking this program will happen look any better after they keep plugging it month after month only for it to not even come close to happening. But quite frankly, I couldn't care less about anything involving him.

this isn't the weekly stupid Orton topic either. This is saying let the delusion cease, people.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I feel like Orton is the new Batista, GREAT heel HORRIBLE face!

We were all clamering for a Batista heel turn and it resurected what was left of his career & now here we are wanting the same thing :lmao it's funny how life works.

Don't know if a heel turn would make these boring Orton matches more entertaining though, but it can't hurt to find out!

Oh yeah HI BRO! <3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd claim Batista much better face than Orton and I'm certain you'd agree despite our disdain for him at his height. But damn, once Batista went heel. Oh boy was that ever the best turnaround. Like instantly great right off the bat. He had to leave so soon after it happened. (N)

The internet - bringing brothers closer together when they're only about five feet apart. 8*D


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Hardy/Finlay 6/22/07 is another I'd love to hear your thoughts on. One of the finest limb selling performances of the decade by Hardy, excellent work overall from Finlay who really excels once he dissects the leg, smart progression from a feeling out and largely basic match into the sudden attack and annihilation of Matt's leg etc. Top 5 Smackdown match at the minimum, likely top three.


I really tuned out during the beginning, once the trash talk was done. Felt like they spent too much time in the ol' chin locks and such before getting to the body of the match. Once they get outside and Hornswoggle kinda pops out, it gets tense. Finlay's workover, goes without saying, is brilliant, and Hardy's selling is indeed fantastic. I don't think I'd put it anywhere near as high as what you have it at, but comfortably better than the likes of Punk/Cena from this year's RAW.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Well that's why we all wanted it haha, i mean the guy is an asshole off camera so he's a great asshole on camera haha.

I'm not saying Orton going heel will resurrect him in any way or if he even has a chance of going heel, but then again we never thought Batista would go heel again and look what happened there, all I'm saying is i wouldn't be surprised if Orton ended up a heel eventually.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My question was used on the DDP YouShoot . Made my day lol.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

:hb
Was it about yoga? :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No, was about The Undertaker (who didn't see that coming?) .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Was your question "What did it feel like to be one of those creepy motherfuckers?"


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SmokeAndMirrors said:


> I'm interested to know what match people think has been the best so far this year in WWE. For me it's got to be Punk vs Cena on RAW a couple of months ago.


Everything I've rated ****+ :

Punk vs. Taker Mania (**** 1/4)
Cena vs. Punk RAW 2/25 (**** 1/4)
Shield vs. Hell No & Kofi RAW 5/20 (****)
Brock vs. HHH Mania (****)
Elimination Chamber Match (****)
Shield vs. Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback EC (****)

Been a pretty great year when it comes to individual matches on a monthly/week to week basis, but a pretty shitty one when it comes to PPV quality. Elimination Chamber is the only one I'd actually recommend to people.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs The Big Show (Cyber Sunday 2008)*

1/4

Loved this, first time i have watched it tbh, some really hard hitting shots in this, loved the chair/throat/steel post spot early on. Great stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania demolished Elimination Chamber if you ask me.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Everything I've rated ****+ :
> 
> Punk vs. Taker Mania (**** 1/4)
> Cena vs. Punk RAW 2/25 (**** 1/4)
> ...


You wouldn't recommend Mania?



> WrestleMania demolished Elimination Chamber if you ask me.


YES! YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chamber:

Show vs Del Rio = solid
Cesaro vs Miz = good
Shield vs Cena/Sheamus/Ryback = great
Rest was shit

WM:

Everything worked except for the main event which even managed to have a mild redeeming quality to it to avoid a DUD.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I mean there was nothing bad on Mania (Ryback/Henry was the lowest thing I rated) but there really isn't anything to see outside of Punk/Taker & Brock/Trips, the 2nd of which is incredibly polarizing on its own. The undercard was fine but rather forgettable in an instant. Not to mention the AWFUL main event. 

Elimination Chamber had a good opener which was made even better by removing the botch on dvd, a super solid Cesaro/Miz contest marred by a crappy finish, the Chamber match itself which I really loved but others don't seem to for some reason, the first awesome straight up 6-man The Shield had, and a main event that I think is certainly watchable while others think it's awful. 

I've went around in circles with his before though. EC was much better than Mania imo, and far better than Extreme Rules.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All I know is the first three PPVs had super bad main events until Extreme Rules. Take out Rock and everything was fine.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Do you have the Cage match over their No Holds Barred contest now?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah it seems that way. Only watched WM once though. I can see myself preferring the cage by a hair after the second time around with No Holds Barred.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Mania 29 ratings: 

Shield vs Orton/Show/Sheamus: ***

Kane/Bryan vs Ziggler/Langston: **1/2

Fandango vs Jericho: **1/4

Mark Henry vs Ryback: *

Swagger vs Del Rio: **

Punk vs Taker: ****

HHH vs Lesnar: **1/2

Rock vs Cena: ***


5/10. Disappointing wrestlemania to say the least. 8th worst WM IMO 2 , 9, 10, 11, 15, 16, 27 all being worse.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

No holds barred surpasses the cage for me, they literally beat the shit out of each other for 25 mins.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Holds Barred ruled. Do think the storytelling from the cage will have a slight stronger preference for me at the end of the day. Both are well worth seeing; that's the best part.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Trips and The Shield - save the worst for the biggest show of the year.

** Not saying it's The Shield's fault lol, just saying it is probably their worst match to date that i have seen, but they have more than likely had a shit one on SD or something.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Finally ran out of matches I wanted to watch but wanted to watch something so I threw in Cena/Punk from 2/25 that I never bothered to watch...

The match was really good and I was engaged the whole time which was shocking, quite frankly. There were some things I didn't like about the match. For instance any time Cole opened his mouth I was agitated, Cena no selling Punk's knee in the corner into an AA, Cena not knowing how to do an STF, Cena reversing a GTS in a STF after just taking a GTS. There were things I loved in this match though. The piledriver that got a huge pop from the crowd, Punk ducking Cena's second shoulder tackle, Punk missing his elbow drop and that costing him the match, and the story of how they knew each other so well. This match may have sold me on Punk, he carried the bulk of this match. While Cena threw out an odd move or two, it was mostly Punk dominating but when he wasn't he let Cena do his signature stuff.

****1/4.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching ladders 2 on netflix to see JOMO/sheamus ladder again and I watched the no mercy 08 ladder again before it, idk i just dont like it that much, its probably the only :hbk2 classic i dont like


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you're watching Ladder Match 2, make sure and check out RVD vs. Christian from RAW '03. Such an awesome yet underrated ladder match imo.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Eddie/RVD from RAW 05/27/2002 should also be watched.

But that was on the first Ladder match set.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If you're watching Ladder Match 2, make sure and check out RVD vs. Christian from RAW '03. Such an awesome yet underrated ladder match imo.


yea I'll check that out I remember liking it 

Hunter/Brock series

ss12 ****1/4
er 13 ****
wm 29 ***


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Vader Day 3, MISAWA Edition Vader vs Misawa

God this was an awesome way to spend an hour, have fun reading and stuff


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sheamus vs JOMO TLC ****1/4

very good match, haven't seen a ladder match this good in a very long time, I agree with most of you saying this is what a ladder match is be like as the dont rely on spots. Idk who said it I think it was Evan, but this is everything dolph/Cena was not


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I really tuned out during the beginning, once the trash talk was done. Felt like they spent too much time in the ol' chin locks and such before getting to the body of the match. Once they get outside and Hornswoggle kinda pops out, it gets tense. Finlay's workover, goes without saying, is brilliant, and Hardy's selling is indeed fantastic. I don't think I'd put it anywhere near as high as what you have it at, but comfortably better than the likes of Punk/Cena from this year's RAW.


Ah well, horses for courses.

I liked the beginning tbh. It was slow but both guys and their dynamic intrigue me and I dug Finlay peppering Hardy and looking to exploit any opening. It was a tepid pace but there were enough little touches in the work to hold my interest over and it served to make the subsequent transition spot and intense workover all the more interesting with Finlay literally seizing control in the blink of an eye.

You seen Rey/Chavo GAB '04 & Rey/Noble Velocity '04? Two of the best cruiserweight matches WWE has ever produced imo. The Chavo match is one of Mysterio's finest performances imo in working underneath and Chavo more than holds his own and controls impeccably on top. Rey/Noble is just a forever favourite match of mine. They work the mat with constant struggles whilst running through some impressive counter wrestling sequences, every visually impressive spot is timed to perfection, Noble's control segment is snug and focused and Mysterio times his hope spots and build to his eventual comeback as smartly as ever.

If you haven't seen the series, I'd also be interested on your thoughts on Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle from May-July '03. I'm not that high on their Judgement Day Ladder match, but the 5/22 tag match is incredible and one of my favourite WWE tags and their 5/29 and 7/3 tags are also stellar, albeit below 5/22 imo. I'm a big fan of the story of the 7/3 match in particular. Angle returns the next week from his surgery and Team Angle are desperate to win the titles back to appease him. Eddie is amazing in the series as the FIP or the apron worker, Tajiri shines off the hot tag & as the FIP and Team Angle work very well as the amateur duo controlling the champs and continuously struggling to find a way to overcome the spirited babyface duo.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Alim’s Best of 2005 Project Snowflakes w/ Comments Continued*

*Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle*
_Wrestlemania XXI_

Kurt Angle with one of the GOAT carry jobs here. Michaels was awful in this match while Kurt brought his best. The crowd is quite pro-Angle as it seems like the only people cheering for HBK are the fat women who think they have a chance with him. Evident by the “You Screwed Bret!” chants early on. I enjoyed the Angle Slam into the steel post, don’t recall seeing that ever before. I wish the control segment in this match was longer to display Angle because HBK was totally off and if it wasn’t for Angle’s presence this match wouldn’t be that great. This was still a GREAT match though, but the saying “it takes two to tango” doesn’t apply here because it was ALL ANGLE bring DAT intensity. I loved that spot where he’s talking trash to HBK and he gets caught talking too long and gets hit with a Sweet Chin Music. People talk about the HHH/Taker nearfall from WM 27 a lot, but Angle kicking out of the SCM here is basically a picture perfect kickout. The referee’s hand is literally an INCH away from hitting the mat for the third time. Too bad the crowd didn’t react too big. Michaels’ overselling killed it. And speaking of his overselling, what the fuck was with that finish? He must have been locked into the Ankle Lock for at least 3 minutes if not more. Sure, you want to look strong, but this was WAY over the top. Once again, Angle MADE this match. This match has definitely dropped in my books. I used to have it near 5 stars.
*Rating: *****

*The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton*
_Wrestlemania XXI_

I enjoyed this match A LOT for a number of different reasons. Firstly, the unique pacing. Usually you have the face making the heel his bitch in the first part of the match, but the face makes a mistake or the heel counters a move and the heel takes over for a control segment throughout the middle. The face then makes a counter of his own which leads to a bit of a comeback. An exchange of signature moves and finishers and the match is over. But in this match you had both guys going back and forth for the entire thing with no clear cut guy dictating the pace. Taker made Orton look like a star here. This is around when they really started promoting the streak and advertising it at Wrestlemania so by watching it in a 2005 mindset, it made a lot of sense for Orton to win here because of his Legend Killer gimmick. Two awesome and VERY believable nearfalls. The first one being where “Cowboy” Bob Orton comes in and clotheslines Taker, cast first. And the second being the infamous GOAT RKO where Taker goes for the Chokeslam, only for it to be countered mid-air. Cool finish too with Orton’s cockiness getting the best of him.
*Rating: *****

*Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Edge vs. Christian vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shelton Benjamin*
_Money in the Bank_
*Wrestlemania XXI*

What started out as a filler undercard match for 6 guys that didn’t have anything to do at Wrestlemania has now become an annual tradition to propel young stars to the next level. This is the first ever Money in the Bank ladder match and it’s arguably the best one. Things started off chaotically as Kane was the last one to be introduced (and a SICK entrance, ladders on fire ftw) and everyone made sure to attack the biggest guy in the match first and take him out early. Except KANE being the monster he is fought everyone off. So many great, unique, FUN spots in this match. There was a spot where Christian crossbodied himself over the ropes and took a few guys out. Shelton Benjamin followed up with a dive of his own. And then the Big Red Machine decided to take everyone out with a dive too! Christian with a cool looking ARMBREAKER off the top of the ladder on Benoit too, who was selling the armwork Kane did on him from a few minutes before. Edge may have won this match, but it was Chris Benoit and Shelton Benjamin that stole the show here. Benjamin with the GOAT Money in the Bank Ladder Match spot where he runs up a ladder that is on a slant and CLOTHESLINES Jericho who is climbing another ladder. UNBELIEVABLE. He also hits a picture perfect T-BONE on Edge from the TOP OF THE LADDER. Benoit, holy shit. His selling of the arm was magnificent. Usually when someone works over a part of another wrestler’s body in a match, the guy who is supposed to be selling the injury forgets about it in a few minutes. But Benoit sure didn’t. Benoit was holding onto that arm the entire damn match. Even as he was climbing a ladder and delivered a DIVING HEADBUTT FROM THE TOP onto KANE. EDGE picked up the victory in typical heel fashion as he hit Benoit with a STEEL CHAIR onto his injured arm just as he was going to win the match. Match of the Year so far.
*Rating: ****1/2*

*Chris Benoit vs. Edge*
_Last Man Standing_
*Backlash*

A very enjoyable Last Man Standing match. Benoit is always game for a good match and Edge was great here too. He was really starting to come into his own at this time with the Ultimate Opportunist thing and it showed in this match. Benoit went for a Suicide Dive mid-match and Edge NAILED him with a sickening shot to the head with a trash can lid. A couple of unique spots included in this match were a superplex onto a garbage can and a GERMAN SUPLEX from the LADDER. Edge couldn’t put Benoit away after two spears so what does he do? Pulls out a god damn BRICK from his Money in the Bank briefcase and clocks Benoit in the back of the head for the win.
*Rating: ***3/4*

*Shelton Benjamin vs. Chris Jericho*
_Intercontinental Championship_
*Backlash*

HOLY SHIT is this match underrated. I never see it get talked about. I thought it was going to be good, but not THIS good. Shelton Benjamin is such a wonderful athlete. He pulled off some crazy shit in this match. One instance of athleticism, Jericho is perched up on the top turnbuckle. This guy just sprints right at him and LEAPS up and gives him a Superplex within a second. None of that climbing up bullshit for Shelton, that’s too mainstream. Just a straight up, NBA like LEAP. So many damn “nip” ups too. Not that it’s a bad thing, very fun to watch. Let’s not neglect Jericho either because he put on a fantastic performance as well. Shelton was going to powerbomb Jericho who was standing on the apron onto the floor, but somehow Jericho counters into a HURRICARANA. A tribute to his Cruiserweight days there. He tried to put Shelton into the Walls of Jericho, but he couldn’t turn him over so what does he do? Slingshots him into the corner of course. Small things like this make Jericho such a great wrestler and one of the best ever. WHAT A FINISHING STRETCH by the way. Counter after counter after counter. Into a roll-up like pin for the win. Awesome stuff. An underrated gem if I’ve ever seen one. 
*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> sheamus vs JOMO TLC ****1/4
> 
> very good match, haven't seen a ladder match this good in a very long time, I agree with most of you saying this is what a ladder match is be like as the dont rely on spots. Idk who said it *I think it was Evan*, but this is everything dolph/Cena was not


THAT'S ME.

:cena3


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

My ratings for EC and Wrestlemania of this year (keep in mind I haven't seen either more than once):

*Elimination Chamber*

- Del Rio vs. Big Show ****1/2* I liked it quite a bit. I thought it was weird to go from two last man standing matches in a row to a regular singles match... and despite that botch at the end, I still thought it worked as the opener.

- Cesaro vs. Miz ***1/2* Average, short, terrible finish. It was tolerable for the most part.

- Chamber Match ****** Good chamber match as usual, but a slight step down from previous chambers.

- Shield vs. Cena, Sheamus & Ryback ****1/4* A lot of fun and great selling from The Shield, but it didn't get enough time to reach **** and for what it's worth, I thought the wrong guy took the pin.

- Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston ***** About as good of a 5 minute match you're likely to get. A fun brief match.

- Kaitlyn vs. Tamina Snuka... I honestly don't even remember this match.

- Rock vs. Punk II ****** The Rumble match disappointed me, and this one didn't exactly live up to the expectations I initially had for these two, but I still loved the psychology here as they played around with the stipulation of Rock losing the belt by DQ or countout. The near falls added some drama and an element of surprise that the first match didn't have for me. I think I'm one of the very few who had fun with this match, even if I expected more from this pairing.


*Wrestlemania*

- Shield vs. Orton, Sheamus & Big Show ***1/4* Average match, didn't get enough time. Loved the suicide dive from Rollins and the RKO in mid-air on Seth Rollins as well. Nice to see The Shield get a victory on their first Wrestlemania.

- Mark Henry vs. Ryback **** Yawn. I have a feeling that my 2 stars is being generous... but it was everything I expected.

- Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston ***** Liked this a lot for an undercard match. Langston played his role very well, Bryan worked the crowd tremendously, and this match probably had the most devastating chokeslam I've seen in forever. Ziggler sold that to perfection. 

- Fandango vs. Chris Jericho ***1/2* A standard match. Fandango sold for most of it and won with a fluke rollup pin. Not much to say here but Jericho worked really hard.

- Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger ***** It was alright, but disappointing for a World Title match. It ended before I could get into it. Not enough time... it's insane the time constraints they have when the PPV is 4 HOURS.

- Undertaker vs. CM Punk *****1/2* Loved it. It seemed to generate the most energy from the crowd, the storytelling was solid, the wrestling was great.. easily the best match of the night IMO and the best PPV match so far this year. 

- Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H ***** I still don't see it. It was watchable for sure, but I don't see what's so great about these matches. I don't think they have chemistry at all, and the pacing was just too sluggish for my liking. It didn't help either that the crowd was completely dead for it.. as it's the kind of match that NEEDS a hot crowd. 

- Rock vs. Cena ***** Another match with lots of hype that I just didn't enjoy very much at all. It didn't look like either guy knew what they wanted to do here. It started very lackluster, and they settled for a long finisher fest. This was just a poor way to close the biggest show of the year... and the outcome did absolutely nothing for me. 

I'd give the edge to Chamber for leaving a better taste in my mouth.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great write-up, Alim/Fandango. (Y)

You should add Edge vs Benoit from 4/4 on Raw to the list, though. It pretty much starts where MITB left off with Edge working on the arm and Benoit selling it like the greatest there has ever been.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just got done watching the Morrison vs Sheamus ladder match from TLC 2010. Great match. I was more impressed with Sheamus' performance in that match. Sheamus using the ladder to work on Morrison's bad left leg was good shit. Morrison's performance and the selling of his left leg was also pretty solid stuff. I enjoyed this match overall. 

Rating: ★★★★1/2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Is that ladder match best singles for JOMO?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> yea I'll check that out I remember liking it
> 
> Hunter/Brock series
> 
> ...


I think your ratings are backwards 

I need to re watch the cage match, didn't enjoy it too much the first time and i felt the SummerSlam match was ok, loved how Brock dominated though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Is that ladder match best singles for JOMO?


I'd say yes, if not his best match it's definitely his best performance. I'm a huge fan of his Falls Count Anywhere match with Miz from RAW 2011 as well, probably put that right behind it. Then you have his IC Title match with Mysterio from Smackdown '09. I'd comfortably say that's his top 3.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Punk/JOMO from ECW was also a great match, one of my favorites from him.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Great write-up, Alim/Fandango. (Y)
> 
> You should add Edge vs Benoit from 4/4 on Raw to the list, though. It pretty much starts where MITB left off with Edge working on the arm and Benoit selling it like the greatest there has ever been.


Yeah I just checked this match out after your recommendation. I think I'm convinced that Benoit is the GOAT seller.

I laugh when people mention guys like HBK who just hop around the ring while Benoit makes you BELIEVE he is truly hurt.

*Rating for the match: ***3/4*


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Favourite Benoit selling MITB was at Mania 21, thought he legit broke his arm watching it live.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fandango said:


> Yeah I just checked this match out after your recommendation. I think I'm convinced that Benoit is the GOAT seller.
> 
> I laugh when people mention guys like HBK who just hop around the ring while Benoit makes you BELIEVE he is truly hurt.
> 
> *Rating for the match: ***3/4*


Benoit is the GOAT everything in the ring. Okay, maybe not, but in enough categories to qualify as the all-time greatest in my book.

It blows my mind just how good he was. Like, is that even humanely possible?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ring General Daniels said:


> I think your ratings are backwards
> 
> I need to re watch the cage match, didn't enjoy it too much the first time and i felt the SummerSlam match was ok, loved how Brock dominated though.


Its a very interesting series, Ive come to the realization that brocks selling in these matches breaks or brakes them

Summerslam - its a love it or hate it match, Brock selling of stomach and the flat out brawl was pretty good

mania- falls flat for me, dont like the structure and I love Shawn but he doesnt add anything to the match as well as heyman, just felt like a generic brawl

Cage- you shave 10 ins off and have Brock selling like that from the start and its a ****1/4 + match


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Benoit is the GOAT everything in the ring. Okay, maybe not, but in enough categories to qualify as the all-time greatest in my book.
> 
> It blows my mind just how good he was. Like, is that even humanely possible?


What separates him from everyone else is that Benoit never took a night off. He was always there and ready to do the best he could. He loved the business, he loved the fans, and he loved wrestling. A lot of guys start off with the same passion that he had and it later dwindles down once they start making the big bucks. After that they're just there for the fame and to collect their paychecks. But Benoit poured his heart and soul into every match he had and that's what makes him so special.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Loved the write-up *Fandango*. Looking back, 2005 was definitely a stacked year in terms of feud standpoint and ring-work standpoint.

* Cena vs. JBL.
* Batista vs. Triple H.
* Mysterio vs. Eddie
* Angle vs. Michaels.
* Undertaker vs. Orton.
* Edge vs. Hardy.
* Triple H vs. Flair.
* Benoit vs. Booker T.

All stellar feuds consisting of remarkable matches. Good times those were.



That's irrelevant said:


> Just got done watching the Morrison vs Sheamus ladder match from TLC 2010. Great match. I was more impressed with Sheamus' performance in that match. Sheamus using the ladder to work on Morrison's bad left leg was good shit. Morrison's performance and the selling of his left leg was also pretty solid stuff. I enjoyed this match overall.
> 
> Rating: ★★★★1/2


One of my favorite Ladder Matches. Clever usage of the weapons and the well-timed comebacks. Morrison's great selling of the leg while playing the sympathetic, resilient pretty boy babyface. Sheamus displaying some of his brute force while playing the hated, tough bullying heel. Was very impressed by the quality of this match, as well as the believability of their performances. Same rating as yours.



Choke2Death said:


> Benoit is the GOAT everything in the ring. Okay, maybe not, but in enough categories to qualify as the all-time greatest in my book.
> 
> It blows my mind just how good he was. Like, is that even humanely possible?


I'm with you on that. When I think of the term "blood, sweat and tears left out in the ring," I think of no other wrestler than Benoit. He was as flawless and as awesome as you can get in the ring. Can't think of anyone, past or present, that has even come remotely close to matching up with his intensity, tenacity, passion and desire.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I use to love hbk/angle mania, but its gonna down considerably, I use to have it near ******. I just dont like the structure of the match, its the beginning of annoying kurt and the finish was a bit much, still hold it in high regard around ****- 1/4 but that a major drop off


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fandango said:


> What separates him from everyone else is that Benoit never took a night off. He was always there and ready to do the best he could. He loved the business, he loved the fans, and he loved wrestling. A lot of guys start off with the same passion that he had and it later dwindles down once they start making the big bucks. After that they're just there for the fame and to collect their paychecks. But Benoit poured his heart and soul into every match he had and that's what makes him so special.


Yeah, I mean the guy was willing to take a stiff chair shot to the back of the head in a throwaway tag match on TV. Most wouldn't even think about taking this (and for good reason) but he was all about the business.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

has anybody seen flair/macho wwe title match that is NOT wm8, It probably the rematch ?

Edit: stumbled across it watch perfect/flair promos its the prime time wresting I think


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I use to love hbk/angle mania, but its gonna down considerably, I use to have it near ******. I just dont like the structure of the match, its the beginning of annoying kurt and the finish was a bit much, still hold it in high regard around ****- 1/4 but that a major drop off


Still a big fan of that showdown. Had goosebumps when I first heard these two would be clashing together, this was one the matches I always dreamed of seeing. Match didn't disappoint. Kudos to Michaels for his entertainment and storytelling. Props to Angle for his mat wrestling and intensity. Helluva match. ★★★★1/4.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair vs Mr. Perfect loser leaves wwf ****1/2

great match and top 3 if not best raw match ever

* havent seen KOTR wit hbret in a while, but this may be perfect best wwf match in my imo
* shcoked to see someone bleeding and not flair
*heenan is gold usual
* I LOVE the flair/perfect tandem so much. theri promos were GOLD


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Decided to watch the Benoit/Edge LMS from Backlash 2005 due to it being discussed. Benoit takes an absolute beating in this match. A trash can lid shot to the head in mid air, a superplex onto the trash can itself, a missed diving headbutt from the top of the ladder. Not to mention a fucking brick shot that finally keeps him down. He really does make this match, awesome selling as you would expect and the crowd is really on his side which only makes Edge look like a better heel. Edge is on the offensive for most of the time but Benoit does make him tap twice to the sharpshooter and crossface respectively, and also pulls off a German suplex from the ladder. It's a great babyface performance by Benoit and reminds me of Flair's in his LMS with HHH later in the year. Similar ending too, with Benoit able to beat the count after two consecutive spears, before Edge's brick shot finally grounds him. Really dig that ending, Edge being the ultimate opportunist and coming prepared with a backup plan just in case things went wrong. Benoit also sold the head injury from the brick really well the next night on Raw during a match (which I think was against Edge again). Anyway, ****3/4*-******


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Benoit also sold the head injury from the brick really well the next night on Raw during a match (which I think was against Edge again).







I rank the LMS about the same.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Benoit-Edge RAW 2005 (Table Match) ****

Probably my fav match of the stipulation ever.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I rank the LMS about the same.


Shit, I thought it might have been the HHH match. Didn't think the gold rush tournament was the night after. I have that one at ****3/4*, slightly prefer their Raw match from a couple of months before.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Cena/Ryback 3 Stages Of Hell has a chance to make history. I expect it to be the worst WWE Title match in recent history.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> Cena/Ryback 3 Stages Of Hell has a chance to make history. I expect it to be the worst WWE Title match in recent history.


:lmao

Seriously, could they have picked 3 WORSE stipulations than those?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

what'd they pick?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

:lmao that is hilarious. 

@Yeah1993 they picked lumberjack, tables and ambulance.

I can't stop laughing reading the raw report.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Another fun Shield match going on!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> @Yeah1993 they picked lumberjack, tables and ambulance.


Goddamn. I feel like I should watch it just to see how they would possibly even ATTEMPT to pull that off. I can't remember a match with any of those three stipulations *separately* that was all that good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

they really should have spaced the US title match and this one out, back to back is stupid and they have two hours to burn


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Goddamn. I feel like I should watch it just to see how they would possibly even ATTEMPT to pull that off. I can't remember a match with any of those three stipulations *separately* that was all that good.


I'm with you, I'm gonna have to tune into Payback just to see how they will try and ATTEMPT to pull this match off. 

:ryback


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what were the stips for rton :HHH 3 stages of hell ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> what were the stips for rton :HHH 3 stages of hell ?


Singles, Falls Count Anywhere, Stretcher

-------------------

Can Kane look any weaker against the Shield? Kinda ridiculous.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> what were the stips for rton :HHH 3 stages of hell ?


Falls Count Anywhere and Stretcher match were two of them. 

The Shield/HellNo tag was very good, Bryan is just on awesome form right now and I like how they're setting up the Hell No break up. Rollins was awesome in that match. Still not sure whether I like his finisher or not.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> what were the stips for rton :HHH 3 stages of hell ?


Falls Count Anywhere, Regular match-up, Stretcher

I actually give that one a ★★★. The last fall really saved it for me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> what were the stips for rton :HHH 3 stages of hell ?


1) regular match
2) falls count anywhere
3) stretcher match

I hadn't been back watching when that Bash match happened. Difficult to sit through.

Also, HOLY SHIT THIS SHIELD TAG MATCH. ****1/4 on first watch. I'm fucking buzzing hard with this match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea idk which will be worst but its be close, God I hate everything about ryback- good shiled match again for anybody not watch the US bout is muc hbetter then er 13


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

3SOH... well... 2 out of 3 of them have been awful (Orton/HHH and HBK/HHH), with Austin/HHH being the only great one. I don't have high hopes for Cena/Ryback.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

C2D that might be the highest Ive ever seen that match rated


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Did I ever mention how much I hate living in Australia, raw doesnt air here for another like 24 hours.

If you ever tune in to that PPV, the Bash 2009 save yourself now by staying away from that 3 stages of hell match and just watch the awesomeness that is Jericho/Mysterio. ***** 1/2* in my view.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I remember the 'falls count anywhere' fall in the Orton/HHH match being ridiculously dumb. I swear the bell rang, HHH took Orton outside and pinned him after a Pedigree. That was like the whole fall! There was probably more to it but that's what it seemed like.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

So another terrible PPV Main Event most likely?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

D) get off my fucking TV


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Did I ever mention how much I hate living in Australia, raw doesnt air here for another like 24 hours.
> 
> If you ever tune in to that PPV, the Bash 2009 save yourself now by staying away from that 3 stages of hell match and just watch the awesomeness that is Jericho/Mysterio. ***** 1/2* in my view.


fucking love that match bro ****1/2-3/4 and 2nd only to hbk/taker from that year


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> fucking love that match bro ****1/2-3/4 and 2nd only to hbk/taker from that year


Yer it's one of my personal favourites and also my number 2 match of the year for WWE with Christian/Swagger close behind. The creative counters, and storytelling of Jericho having a counter for every bit of Mysterios offence was magnificent. With the ending showing Rey had one last trick up his sleaze, as Jericho's arrogance and obsession with Rey's mask became his downfall where in their previous match it helped him steal the win. I recommend the entire series, but this one was certainly the cream of the crop. Ooooohhhhhhh yyyyeeeeaaaahhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

they dont book mid-card fuel like that anymore it a shame, how the punk project going ? is it just his whc title run or both whc and wwe ?


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> they dont book mid-card fuel like that anymore it a shame, how the punk project going ? is it just his whc title run or both whc and wwe ?


Yer I don't understand how they can't book a Midcard feud like this anymore, it was arguably one of the best feuds of the year, much like the Bryan/Miz feud from 2010 which I can't praise enough and is without a doubt in my mind the feud of the year for 2010. 

Yer it's going good, I got side tracked last night but I've only got 3 matches left to watch. Yer it's both his WHC and WWE title matches, which I have enjoyed watching immensely so much great stuff. 

unk2


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Whelp, looks like it's Punk vs Jericho at Payback. I'm down for that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I have a sneaky feeling Punk will no show and we'll get BROCK vs. Jericho. :mark:

If Punk/Jericho actually does happen, idk what they're gonna do with it and where it could go. Match wise you know it'll be good but what else are these guys gonna do? Mania & Extreme Rules last year were stellar plus their RAW match from earlier this year was great and both were virtually sleepwalking through it.

OOOORRRRRRR, Punk will turn on Heyman for accepting the match on his behalf when he's not around???


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Hint of Punk going to break up with Heyman maybe too?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I have a sneaky feeling Punk will no show and we'll get BROCK vs. Jericho. :mark:


What I love about this whole situation is I love this idea, or Punk indeed coming back, wrestling, and then breaking up with Heyman in the weeks to come. Loads of potential either way.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that was honestly the first divas match I watched in 4 years, punk/Jericho should be interesting with the role change


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I have a sneaky feeling Punk will no show and we'll get BROCK vs. Jericho. :mark:
> 
> If Punk/Jericho actually does happen, idk what they're gonna do with it and where it could go. Match wise you know it'll be good but what else are these guys gonna do? Mania & Extreme Rules last year were stellar plus their RAW match from earlier this year was great and both were virtually sleepwalking through it.
> 
> OOOORRRRRRR, Punk will turn on Heyman for accepting the match on his behalf when he's not around???


Don't get me wrong I'm all for a Punk/Jericho match, but Punk no showing and Brock showing up and facing Jericho would make me :mark: :mark: :mark:

Either way they go with this storyline, should be good though. I think it's just making it inevitable that Punk/Lesnar is going to happen sometime this year. :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Bray Wyatt vignette. :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

BRODIE LEE AND HUSKY HARRIS ARE COMING! :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

not to get off subject from raw, but is the hbk/perfect series worth a watch ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I have a sneaky feeling Punk will no show and we'll get BROCK vs. Jericho. :mark:


If this happened, I'd legitimately mark out. Otherwise, I'll just be like "Yawn, Punk's return match, he obviously wins".

But let's not be too optimistic. It could also be... Curtis Axel who shows up.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Axel/Jericho... fuck. I hope Axel is pre-occupied with something else by the time the PPV rolls around, cause if he's not, then that's an obvious disappointment.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Yeah1993 Youtube Project: Super Calo

**Super Calo vs. Konnan *(_Nitro 9/16/1996_)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYH0v1x5n_8
JESUS CHRIST, I'm one match into this thing and I'm already sold that Super Calo is the most entertaining luchador WCW ever used. He bumped like a fucking MADMAN in this, getting dropped on his head like 4 times and selling a clothesline like it was delivered from JBL. Not to mention he had some ridiculously crazy dives to the outside. The only problem was that he was wrestling fucking Konnan, aka the worst "big name" ever. Seriously was this guy any better in Mexico? Cause he was the current AAA Champion here and he still looked like a lazy, half ass no selling piece of shit. He botches a top rope head scissors and just falls on top of Calo. Besides that, THIS MATCH IS AWESOME.

*Super Calo vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. *(_Nitro 2/17/1997_)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5rNpusgW1E
UGH, don't you fucking hate it when there's a quality match going on in the ring and all the announcers wanna talk about is NWO shit, then they even cut to a scene in the back involving the NWO in THE MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING MATCH!? Yeah, I hate that too.  Anyway, super fun stuff here. Calo dominates for a few minutes, cause ya know, he's a lot bigger than little Rey Rey. Hits a couple big spots & dives, then Rey comes back and hits a couple of his own fancy lookin spots and dives. Both men bump like champs, although the finishing spot looked slow as shit. You know when old guys take a hurracanrana and they have to literally flip themselves over as slow as possible into that pinning position? Yeah, that's what Calo did.

*Super Calo, Ultimo Dragon, & Juventud Guerrera vs. Psychosis, La Parka, & Silver King *(_Nitro 6/9/1997_)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbUwEmgjv14
OH MY GOD, look at those fucking teams! Stacked. Ultimo dragon botched his headstand in the corner and did a split legged falldown while Psychosis just stood there and watched. :lol Larry Zbyszko thought Silver King's named was Silver Fist. hahaha. You already know type of match this is. Bodies flying everywhere. The sequence of dives to the outside were awesome and La Parka's wooden chair was all over the place. The exchanges between Dragon & Psychosis (who were feuding at he time) were pretty damn cool to watch when someone wasn't botching something. Entertaining contest for sure.

*Super Calo vs. Psychosis *(_Nitro 3/24/1997_)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDHtpoXCj7o
You know what I love about watching all these cruiserweight matches? You get completely different spots in each one. This match in particular had two awesome ones, plus Psychosis got to hit his top rope leg drop, so I'm a happy camper. Short and sweet. BUT GUESS WHAT!? The announcers didn't care. They just wanted to talk about Sting & the NWO. Fuckers...

*Super Calo vs. La Parka *(_Nitro 6/16/1997_)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUT4PvrJM1w
Mike Tenay gave us a cool little fun fact, this was actually the very first singles meeting between the two. Whether that's actually true or not, still pretty cool.  Remember the days when Tenay was actually useful and called things decently? Yeah... me too. SO, Super Calo hits a suicide dive through the ropes and LANDS IN THE 2ND ROW. Awesome. He gets a rather surprising victory after his signature headscissor takedown off the top rope that I think I've seen in every match (the one that the shitstain Konnan botched).

I literally found 3 other matches against La Parka, but the audio was either of sync or it was dubbed over by Michael Jackson music. ​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thought Curt Axel looked okay tonight. Unfortunately, neither of his wins have been the big story at the time they happened. Sure, they're talked about, but I don't know. He's growing on me, but damn should have left his music alone.

Again, Shield match was fucking awesome. I'm keeping it at ****1/2 for now. Glad Ambrose got his clean win, but I'm a little skeptical about his facing Orton on Smackdown.

Kind of interesting they went with Jericho for Punk's return match. I know it's 3 weeks away and they could have something else planned. Either way, the pop in Chicago when Punk's music hits should be great.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

*MARK* I'll Calo myself one day. 

Konnan was a part of one really fantastic match in Mexico, and he didn't look bad in it. Other than that, pretty much everything I've seen him in has involved him being the shits. Might be the worst wrestler for any major promotion of all time.

Parka used Thriller as entrance music in Mexioc sometimes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Thought Curt Axel looked okay tonight. Unfortunately, neither of his wins have been the big story at the time they happened. Sure, they're talked about, but I don't know. He's growing on me, but damn should have left his music alone.
> 
> Again, Shield match was fucking awesome. I'm keeping it at ****1/2 for now. Glad Ambrose got his clean win, but I'm a little skeptical about his facing Orton on Smackdown.
> 
> Kind of interesting they went with Jericho for Punk's return match. I know it's 3 weeks away and they could have something else planned. Either way, the pop in Chicago when Punk's music hits should be great.


I kinda marked when he used the Perfect Plex, as did everyone in the crowd. Shield match wasn't _that _good, shit man.  Rollins looked great though.



Yeah1993 said:


> Konnan was a part of one really fantastic match in Mexico, and he didn't look bad in it. Other than that, pretty much everything I've seen him in has involved him being the shits. Might be the worst wrestler for any major promotion of all time.
> 
> Parka used Thriller as entrance music in Mexioc sometimes.


What is this match? I must see it to believe it.

That was the song! :lol


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I kinda marked when he used the Perfect Plex, as did everyone in the crowd. Shield match wasn't _that _good, shit man.  Rollins looked great though.


I marked for the Perfect Plex also. Almost thought Curt would win, then I snapped back into reality. I meant ****1/4 for the Shield tonight. I know it's still high, but I'm sticking with it. Thought all four guys were great, they had a ton of time to work, Rollins and Bryan were especially great tonight. Rollins flying knee at the end didn't look as strong as it has, but whatever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ryback Vs Cena I can't wait for, mainly to see how hilariously bad that batshit stipulation is going to be.

& Punk's not coming back against Jericho, so don't place your bets on it.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Watching a bit of RAW right now. Ryback's microphone ability is still a complete joke. I can't take anybody who says he's even decent seriously. Are standards really that low now?

As for Punk/Jericho, I don't think it'll happen. It's way too small for it to be Punk's return. If it does though, :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed.

Jericho has done alot for the business and no doubt a Punk/Jericho match would be magic as always, but this is far too small for perhaps the second biggest star the WWE has produced since Brock left in 2004 after John Cena of course. It would be fitting for Heyman to promote Axel instead, resulting in mega heat for Heyman & mega heat for Axel in the process, potentially kicking off the biggest feud of the summer in Punk Vs Brock. I'm not so sure about that feud in particular as neither can really afford a loss, but if it happens it happens and I'll be glued to the TV the entire time.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Well said.

Shield match was good. Anything over **** is WAY too high though. (Not surprised.. p)) I wouldn't go any higher than ****1/4*. Bryan's performance was great. If he fixed his ridiculous look, he could be taken a lot more seriously. I also marked hard for the surfboard spot. Not much else to say, standard tag team match.

Edit:

THAT BEARD ON HBK. Was a nice surprise seeing him.

:mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I liked the beginning tbh. It was slow but both guys and their dynamic intrigue me and I dug Finlay peppering Hardy and looking to exploit any opening. It was a tepid pace but there were enough little touches in the work to hold my interest over and it served to make the subsequent transition spot and intense workover all the more interesting with Finlay literally seizing control in the blink of an eye.


Yeah, it's definitely a brilliant match and 2007 TV MOTYC. I just didn't think I got enough stuff to warrant placing it that high. I mean, I was hyped as hell when the referee was trying to force clean breaks and Finlay saw fit (*pun* lol) to talk some trash and Hardy just responded with "You bring it."

After that it kinda fizzled a bit for me until they got into the body of the match. Would definitely watch again at some point tho.



> You seen Rey/Chavo GAB '04 & Rey/Noble Velocity '04? Two of the best cruiserweight matches WWE has ever produced imo. The Chavo match is one of Mysterio's finest performances imo in working underneath and Chavo more than holds his own and controls impeccably on top. Rey/Noble is just a forever favourite match of mine. They work the mat with constant struggles whilst running through some impressive counter wrestling sequences, every visually impressive spot is timed to perfection, Noble's control segment is snug and focused and Mysterio times his hope spots and build to his eventual comeback as smartly as ever.


Will work those into today if I can. Rey/Chavo matches have always bored the shit out of me tho.



> If you haven't seen the series, I'd also be interested on your thoughts on Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle from May-July '03. I'm not that high on their Judgement Day Ladder match, but the 5/22 tag match is incredible and one of my favourite WWE tags and their 5/29 and 7/3 tags are also stellar, albeit below 5/22 imo. I'm a big fan of the story of the 7/3 match in particular. Angle returns the next week from his surgery and Team Angle are desperate to win the titles back to appease him. Eddie is amazing in the series as the FIP or the apron worker, Tajiri shines off the hot tag & as the FIP and Team Angle work very well as the amateur duo controlling the champs and continuously struggling to find a way to overcome the spirited babyface duo.


I probably saw it back when it happened. I remember :mark: when Tajiri became Eddie's partner. Will revisit them. I've just not been watching too many tag matches b/c SHIELD keeps delivering and I'm not really deprived.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Heyman's microphone work is fucking godly. Untouchable, if you ask me. I miss the Heyman/Punk duo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

If Punk/Lesnar happens at Summerslam... it'd be stupid. I mean, it would be awesome, but stupid, for reasons stated. Neither man can afford to lose and I'm certain Brock would be the one losing as well, clean for that matter to CM Punk which would be even more stupid. I mean, Brock clearly doesn't give a fuck who he loses to or how much he does as long as he gets DEM MONEYZ so I'm almost certain that's the way they would go. It'd be a shame because while I didn't agree with them going the route of not making Brock just an unstoppable beast and having HHH go toe to toe with him in all of their matches... at least Trips is big, strong looking guy and it's somewhat believable, while for Punk it wouldn't be at all. And I hate using the whole "big vs. small" thing but there's no way Punk could believably take the fight to Lesnar. I mean, even bringing in the BJJ (or whatever form of Martial Arts he knows) I'd still find it hard to believe when Brock succeeded in MMA. 

Only way I could believe Punk winning is with interference of some kind, but god... the only person I could think of that could logically interfere would be HHH... which would mean Lesnar/HHH IV, which would be disastrous and I'd rather go sit through Koslov/HHH again. On the other hand, Punk simply can't lose his first or one of his first matches back, especially his first big one. He just can't. He needs to win a big match to get some traction going.

My ideal set-up for Punk and Lesnar at Summerslam would be:

Punk/Taker with Punk getting a clean win, and potentially turning face from there
Lesnar/Orton with Lesnar dominating Orton and beating him decisively. With Punk turning face as mentioned above, this could also lead more to Orton losing control of himself and to an eventual heel turn.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:hbk2 rockin a beard now ? expect punk to turn on heyman for making decision for him and setting up a brock/punk feud


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Just take my money Shield. Always solid. I see Ambrose vs Orton being very nice. Usual from Orton most likely thou. He doesn't go all out unless he's facing Christian or Sheamus.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Heyman's microphone work is fucking godly. Untouchable, if you ask me. I miss the Heyman/Punk duo.


I miss the Punk/Heyman era already .

I swear to God Punk & Heyman would come out to start the show and deliver a molten hot promo, then another one halfway about how Punk has the strap which validates all of Punk's paranoid claims as the king of the castle, and then either another fantastic segment to end the show, or another awesome match. RAW as a whole wasn't great, but he was the eagle in a sky of mediocrity which made the entire fucking show worth watching until this Cena/Rock shit had to start. I like Cena but I could care less about a feud with fucking Ryback of all people, & it seems as if Brock & HHH won't compete until Summerslam at least... We need Punk back here asap going into complete GOD MODE like he did in late 2012 - Wrestlemania as it'll probably SAVE the show quality wise for me and a ton of other fans of the guy.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I feel as thou the three stages of hell doesn't have enough hate for the stip. Not on the level of Austin/HHH or HBK/HHH


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

*Yeah1993 Style: GOLDBERG EDITION*​
Goldberg vs Glacier 12/27/97 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9K_HtBs8UM
This match is just everything in my life currently right now, you have Goldberg BOOM SPEAR and the Jackhammer which makes this an easy 1997 MOTYC ****3/4 my god what a match.

Goldberg vs Yuji Nagata 1/25/98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDcBxAm0ehU
Nagata with dem kicks so stiff reminds me of 1990s All Japan just sweet could of used 11 more seconds but still a helluva match, ****1/2 damn.

Goldberg vs Randy Orton 8/18/03 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmMhV0GILTY
Bill carries the rookie jobber Orton to a superb match made better with Austin stunning Flair, *****

Goldberg vs Bam Bam Bigelow 9/9/99 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-401wNkFOU
Bam Bam is completely carried by the god known as Bill Goldberg so good ****1/4 knocked off a 1/2* because of DDP like why would you do that come on man.

Goldberg vs The Giant 11/23/98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1ObZjjIHa4
One of the GOAT matches in WCW history too good for words, is ****** possible? Yup.

Goldberg vs La Parka 6/1/98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf_VIGKnRCs
Too sweet for words so *****

Goldberg vs Chavo Guerrero 6/8/98 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tUgRX6s2jw
********

Sorry for doing this I am incredibley bored, and my girlfriend and I just broke up so I'm trying to lighten my spirits. Also I hope nobody takes this the wrong way by calling it a Yeah thing, I just saw the review for the Goldberg/Parka match a day or two ago and fucking bawled it was hilarious, plus he is like one of my favorite posters here lol. So yea, enjoy some post break up Goldberg matches


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Heyman's microphone work is fucking godly. Untouchable, if you ask me. I miss the Heyman/Punk duo.


Agreed. I find Jericho to be one of the very best on the mic, and while he did an awesome job himself, he paled in comparison to how incredible Heyman was. TBH with Heyman's work the past 8 months, he's a top 5 mic worker of all time for me, and only person I'd for sure put above him would be Foley. Austin, Jericho, and Flair are the only others I would maybe put above Heyman as well, but even then it's tough. I mean, I always knew Heyman was great, but his work with Punk and Lesnar, not to mention just being incredibly consistent the last few months and downright great at the very least every week he's been on. Amazing.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Cena-Umaga NYR 2007 is like, really fucking good. People seem to base their chemistry off of the one shown at the Rumble, which isn't a bad thing at all, but their first, isn't to be counted out. Cena plays off the story of being dominated by the monster, the majority of the match but with his last battery of supermanery, sneaks in that fluke-equal win.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Good god at WWE taking 3 stipulation matches that rarely lead to a good match and fucking combining them. :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That's what they Doo ! ( mark henry voice) in all honest it gonna be bad and the worst part they probably will get over 45 mins


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really can't see Ryback going 45 minutes. He doesn't seem to have the stamina to, especially in a one on one match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What is this match? I must see it to believe it.


Cien Caras/Mascara Ano 2000/Sangre Chicana v. Konnan (el Barbaro)/Rayo de Jalisco/Perro Aguayo 3/1/92
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQlipcFXXR8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfy2Y57AueI

Actually I think this is a trio match that someone who doesn't really like trio matches would like (pretty sure you didn't really like an el Dandy trio from 1990). It's a completely chaotic brawl, and someone described this as 'almost WarGames without the cage' which is a great description. I should note that you shouldn't expect anything really GREAT from Konnan in this, but unlike most other matches he isn't actively SUBTRACTING from the match. 

Also I hope you come out of this in love with Cien Caras like I did. 



Tanner1495 said:


> *Yeah1993 Style: GOLDBERG EDITION[/S]
> 
> Sorry for doing this I am incredibley bored, and my girlfriend and I just broke up so I'm trying to lighten my spirits. Also I hope nobody takes this the wrong way by calling it a Yeah thing, I just saw the review for the Goldberg/Parka match a day or two ago and fucking bawled it was hilarious, plus he is like one of my favorite posters here lol. So yea, enjoy some post break up Goldberg matches*​


*

I will absolutely watch a shitload of Goldberg one day. I've had it planned ever since I thought he looked really good in the 2000 Nitro match with Steiner and I'm PUMPED for it.

also thanks for the kind words *​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Well I'm not getting any sleep I might put a Bret match on to put me to sleep. :troll


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Well I'm not getting any sleep I might put a Bret match on to put me to sleep. :troll


:angry:

How dare you.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao What the fuck are these 3SOH stips? Jeebus. I actually didn't mind their LMS but this is just so utterly random that I can't. They don't even really hate each other yet all of a sudden Cena wants them to go to hell and Ryback is calling himself Satan. Yeah, all right.

Payback is a big fat nope as far as I'm concerned. Don't care if Punk's on it or not but I don't see the match happening. I think he'll no show and we'll end up with Heyman scrambling around and sending out Axel to fight Jericho or something along those lines. 

Ah well. At least MITB is on Sky Sports. I can watch that one. Then it depends on what Summerslam looks like when we get closer to the time and whether it equals a buy or not. BORK/GAME/TAKER will make me consider it. No BORK/GAME/TAKER however and more than likely not.

EDIT - And I haven't watched the Shield tag yet but as always I'm looking forward to getting around to it. These guys never disappoint. 

Also BRAY FUCKING WYATT :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Who announced the stips?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena. He said that Ryback rushed into the Ambulance match while he had a week to think about it. A whole week and that's what he supposedly comes up with. Brilliant lol.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

If they tease Punk/Jericho and we get Axel/Jericho, I'mma be pissed. And not in the good "oh those heels, they got me" kind of way.

Speaking of Axel, why did they change his music from awesome to generic? I guess it fits him better. :ex:

Watching Raw made me realise I dislike 90% of the current roster. Ryback, Miz, Cena's character, Sheamus' character, Orton, Miz, Barrett, Fandango, Axel, Miz, Del Rio, Swagger, Langston, Kofi, Miz. I don't think I've ever been so indifferent to more main players.

Shield/Hell No have been the saving grace of WWE. Punk, Christian, Mysterio, and Henry can't come back soon enough. 

Cesaro 

The Wyatt Family :mark:

I'm not even sure how I can skip almost everything and still be annoyed with the current product, but there you have it. [/rant]


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

currently watching starrcade 91


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Anyone else think that Hell No has been Kane's best run since.... I dunno, 2003?

Kane has always been consistent, and I enjoyed parts of his WHC run, but I haven't liked him this much in well over a decade. Probably since his feuds with Evolution and Shane.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2008 Kane was great 8*D

His fascination with Mysterio's mask.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena promo to start things off. Its like they don't want me to watch Raw right from the start.

LOL, fans also don't give a shit and chant "We want Bret". Not JUST because Raw is in Calgary, but because fuck, even broken down old man Bret cutting a promo is more interesting than Cena.

Cena/Ryback 3 Stages of Hell? Urgh. 2 lame stips before they get to the actual match they should have had to start with no doubt. 

Lumberjack is the first fall? Wow. Lamer than I thought. 3rd fall will be Ambulance, right? Probably.

Tables for the 2nd fall? Oh christ this is DULL.

Yep, Ambulance match for the 3rd fall. I like how Cena basically says the Ambulance match WILL happen. At least he covers it up afterwards. Seriously though. Why bother with the other 2 pointless shitty stips? Doesn't add a damn bit of excitement to the match.

GOLDBERG. I mean... Ryback. Not sure how the fans confuse the two. Goldberg was actually interesting in squash matches and shit.

I DROVE YOU THROUGH THIS L.E.D. BOARD. :lmao the way Ryback said that made the whole impact of the crash through the stage at ER seem so lame. LAME. The word of the day when it comes to Raw I think.

Oh hey, speaking of lame, Heyman comes out to introduce Curtis Axel. Lamest of the lame. HHH suffered a brain injury last week from simply being in the ring with him or something. That's how fucking terrible, dull, boring, shitty and LAME this guy is.

Oh fuck they let Curtis speak. Can you imagine an in ring promo with Curtis and Lesnar together? I doubt even Heyman and Punk could prevent that from being a trainwreck.

Jericho and Heyman on the Highlight Reel later tonight. That should make up for all this shitty promo shit we've just had.

AAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORETOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

And his opponent is Big E. How exciting and interesting. 

AJ LEE :mark:. Everyone still hate her and shit? Fuck you all. Only diva in the company worth a damn atm.

Bret randomly stalking Kane and Bryan in the lockeroom. How... creepy. Speaking of creepy... the look on Bryan's face when Bret talks to him :lmao.

BRET HART APPRECIATION NIGHT AFTER RAW!!! ON THE FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING FUCKING BASTARD SHITTY CUNTING WWE BASTARD APP. I HATE YOU WWE. YOU CAN ALL GO TO FUCKING HELL AND DIE IN THE MOST PAIN... Oh hey someone uploaded it .

DEAN AMBROSE. This better not be a rematch with Kofi. Someone fire Kofi. Out of a cannon. Into a volcano.

Fucks sake. It is a match with Kofi. THANKS FOR MAKING ME WANT TO SKIP AN AMBROSE MATCH YOU CUNTS.

Tag titles time :mark:. HART ATTACK. And the commentators completely fucking ignore it. LOL. Awesome kick to Kane's head from Rollins. Awesome bump off the clothesline from Kane by Rollins. Rollins is pretty awesome. Oh shit at the suplex from Bryan and the bump Rollins took off it. Sweet jebus.

So we all want a Bryan/Rollins singles match now right? Good. Because it would be spectacular. Kinda like this match has been so far. Making up for how shitty and unwatchable Raw had been so far this week. SHIELD really do protect us . They should get a black manager. Called Nick.

Awesome spear counter from Reigns to Bryan. KNEE TO THE HEAD. Rollins pins Kane. Awesome match. Me likey long time. 

HHH couldn't remember anything after his entrance last week. No surprise, I wouldn't want to remember a Curtis Axel match either!

SHIELD gave us some awesomeness on Raw after some utter shite... and of course they can't follow up awesomeness with more awesomeness, that would be fucking stupid. Back to shite. Jiz.

Wade Ba....*falls asleep* *wakes up* Vs Fandangoawayalreadyyoufuck. Jiz is the guest ref. How exciting. :lmao Barrett loses to Fandango. FUTURE WORLD CHAMP MY ARSE. Fuck you Barrett fans .

HBK. How random. Get a shave. 

TONS OF WHO GIVES A FUNK. Khali. Midget thingy. 3MB. How does ANYONE watch this show live? I'd go crazy (more so, I guess) if I couldn't skip this shit.

Jericho and Heyman. :lmao at Heyman talking about his suit to avoid talking about Punk :lmao. Punk Vs Jericho at Payback? Cool. Hope its more like their WM match than their ER match. WM style match with Chicago crowd? Yesh pwease.

Divas. Stuff happens I'm sure.

Curtis Axel and Bret Hart backstage. I think I fell asleep again.

Then I woke up when I heard voices in my head. Screaming at me to skip the next match because Orton is in it. WHY U NO INTERESTING NO MORE ORTON?

BRAY WYATT AND HIS FAMILY PROMO. FUCKS YEAH.

Cena Vs Mr Nowherenearperfect is the main event. :lmao I thought Steiner was returning for a second there until I realised it was just Ryback and his Ambulance. So Ryback apparently has his own Ambulance AND someone to drive it? 

Michael Cole: WE ALL FORGOT ABOUT CURTIS AXEL.

Tru dat biach.

Watched the Bret appreciation night thingy. :lmao at Bret's face when HBK comes out. Its like hes trying his best to pretend to smile but inside he wants to stab him. Did Vince get some work done? He looks... younger. WE GOT OFF TO A SHAKY ENDING THERE AT THE END. Good old Bret, still being pretty bad on the mic .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

your commentary :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is the Bret Appreciation thing online? As i guess it wasn't part of televised Raw.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Big Z said:


> FUTURE WORLD CHAMP MY ARSE. Fuck you Barrett fans .


This part had me rolling. :lmao



zep81 said:


> Is the Bret Appreciation thing online? As i guess it wasn't part of televised Raw.


YOU CAN SEE THE BRET HART APPRECIATION NIGHT EXCLUSIVELY ON THE WWE APP - :vince5


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Is that ladder match best singles for JOMO?


I'm a big fan of the 6/26 & 8/14 Punk/Morrison matches from '09, but the Ladder match is comfortably Morrison's best singles match imo.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> Will work those into today if I can. Rey/Chavo matches have always bored the shit out of me tho.
> 
> 
> I probably saw it back when it happened. I remember :mark: when Tajiri became Eddie's partner. Will revisit them. I've just not been watching too many tag matches b/c SHIELD keeps delivering and I'm not really deprived.


Here's what I wrote about Mysterio/Chavo a few months ago:



> *Rey Mysterio vs Chavo Guerrero, Great American Bash (6/17/04)*
> 
> Great match, opening fully reminded me why I prefer the formula of the babyface embarassing and controlling the heel until they build to the transition, makes all of the heel's later offence feel not only needed to weaken the champion and gain a foothold in the match but also as a fuck you for the earlier portion of the match. Rey's selling was supreme and it was awesome to see him incorporate into his offence, which was something lacking in the Smackdown match v Eddie for the WWE Title. I also liked how he'd be unable to hit a move due to the leg, so that when he finally did hit a bigger move it came off more like him fighting through the pain rather not being affected: the best example was probably him landing on the apron and almost falling off due to the bad knee, but managing to kick Chavo back into the centre of the ring and then landing a big springboard move. Chavo's leg work was nice even if it was largely simple, and I liked him continually covering Rey with the bad knee and then selling his injured arm at key intervals, finish felt a little sudden rather than a proper finishing stretch but I guess when you work a match like this that emphasises one wrestler is moments from defeat it would make the other guy look bad if he was comprehensively beat.


The Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle series is the best tag match series WWE did this decade imo. 5/22 is infinitely better than the heavily praised Mysterio/Edge vs Benoit/Angle No Mercy tag imo and only Booker/Goldust vs Jericho/Christian comes close as an overall tag series imo.



Big Z said:


> DEAN AMBROSE. This better not be a rematch with Kofi. Someone fire Kofi. Out of a cannon. Into a volcano.


The best of a great post.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> :angry:
> 
> How dare you.


haha only joking zep and Big Z you should watch the ambrose/kofi its not that bad. MUCH better the er but i have that at **1/2 so it pretty easy to be


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Big Z said:


> FUTURE WORLD CHAMP MY ARSE. Fuck you Barrett fans


This ain't 2011 when we believed he still had a chance.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> This ain't 2011 when we believed he still had a chance.


Please.

Wade is English, thus being deemed inferior in the eyes of Vince, you should have known this 8*D.

Anyways, checking out the cream of the crop when it comes to TV matches in 2005 before hopping on Armageddon and starting to formulate a list of some sort. The list of things to watch as of right now goes Taker-Orton, Eddie-Rey in the cage, then fuck I don't know. SOMETHING.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watching December 2 Dismember right now. Holy fuck, this show is torture. No way I'll actually sit through every single match. Just got done with the third match (Burke & Turkay vs FBI) and it's funny to hear a few guys chant "TNA".



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Please.
> 
> Wade is English, thus being deemed inferior in the eyes of Vince, you should have known this 8*D.
> 
> Anyways, checking out the cream of the crop when it comes to TV matches in 2005 before hopping on Armageddon and starting to formulate a list of some sort. The list of things to watch as of right now goes Taker-Orton, Eddie-Rey in the cage, then fuck I don't know. SOMETHING.


:lmao

A few 2005 TV matches worth checking out but rarely talked about:

Benoit vs JBL (SD 11/11)
Angle vs Rey (SD 10/2)
Cena vs Jericho (Raw 22/8)
Orton vs Rey (SD 1/9)
Orton vs Benoit (SD 18/8)
Eddie vs Angle (SD 14/4)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LOLBARRETT.

LOLTNA.

Taker Vs Orton from 9/16/2005 is pretty beast, I liken it to the Summerslam match as a match that was very reminiscent of the Mania match without all of the pageantry and stuff like that which made the original so grand. Gave it the same rating as well, **** 3/4*. Not sure if it'll make a top 25 or anything due to 2005 being so stacked, but it'll definitely be close.

& it looks like Sheamus/Orton (I'm not calling them the Celtic Vipers. That name is fucking stupid.) Vs The SHIELD is on tap for Payback in Chicago. Not sure how I feel about that one in all honesty, has potential as long as Orton isn't the one getting the hot tag in all honesty.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Smackdown 02/06/2003 - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit*

Just the normal AWESOMENESS! Between the two and quite the forgotten TV match, I would put this ahead of some of their early encounters mainly because they didn't try to go out and do just crazy unnecessary bumps but kept it simple. This happen maybe a 3 weeks after the Rumble match so they played off spots from that match with new reversals and counters. A great moment in the match was Angle hitting the buckle bomb with Benoit NO-SELLING it to hit the release German suplex, also the 2/3 minutes they spent countering the Ankle Lock into the Crossface and vise verse was great. Benoit busts his eye open and it looks pretty "BADASS" I think it happen when he missed the diving headbutt and lands on the eye. Angle gets the Angle Slam out of nowhere for the anticlimactic win. ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So Roman Reigns' ankle is all good atm? After seeing what happened on Smackdown I was getting a bit worried.

Looking forward to the rematch all the same. It sounds like its the match that should've been on PPV.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pretty sure Benoit busted his eye open after landing hard face-first on the turnbuckle.

*December to Dismember 2006:*

Hardys vs MNM - ★★¾ (Some solid tag work and cool finish but way too long and at times boring.)

Elimination Chamber - ★★½ (Booking just fucks this up. Too lazy to analyze every wrong part but eliminating RVD so early was a complete fuck up and Lashley walking around for a minute waiting for Show to get out was stupid booking at its finest. Also fans didn't seem all that behind him as he got booed at times. Not as bad as I expected it to be, though. Test's elbow drop was awesome.)

Everything else: Why should I give a fuck?

*Final Score:* ★ out of ★★★★★ (What a mess. This caused Heyman to leave WWE, has one of the lowest buyrates in history, had only two matches pre-announced, not a single one was very good and it single-handedly killed the brand exclusive PPVs and was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back in WW(ECW) failing.)

Mercifully, I made it through this alive but not without cheating my way through at least one hour of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> & it looks like Sheamus/Orton (I'm not calling them the Celtic Vipers. That name is fucking stupid.) Vs The SHIELD is on tap for Payback in Chicago. Not sure how I feel about that one in all honesty, has potential as long as Orton isn't the one getting the hot tag in all honesty.


I actually read a report saying WWE wasn't sure if Shield would be on the PPV at all and that they rushed the Title rematches to RAW last night, but if that match does go down I don't really have any problem with it. Shield retain the belts and maybe it plants the seeds of ONE of the Celtic Viperslol) turning heel? Which would probably be Sheamus since Orton seems to be like the most over guy in whole fucking company... 

Cody avoids this thread all of last night, thus missing my Super Calo post. It was just for you...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero (Smackdown 6/23/2005)_

So I just watched Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero from 6/23/2005 SOBER for the first time in like two years and all I can say is MAGNIFICENT. If you want to talk about an individual performance in terms of a character study that may be the greatest of all time, look no further than Eddie's slow but calculating dissertation into madness in this match up. The way he starts off allowing clean breaks with a smile on his face to the vicious forearms in the latter stages of the match, you get a sense of deliberate action taken by Eddie to assure that he defeats his insecurities and puts Rey away for good. That long control segment Eddie has where he just figuratively shuts Rey down from any comeback attempt was fantastic, with the kicks and slaps on the ground being breathtaking with subtle touches to his heel work like the choking of Rey behind the referee's back. I really can't speak any higher of Eddie's work in this match to be honest, as during the match I kept questioning myself as to what I was watching, proclaiming in my mind that I could be witnessing the very pinnacle of performance by an individual when it comes to the art of performing inside of the ring. To the naked eye this match was a typical technical affair, but when you look deeper into the encounter and dive into both the manipulating & deceiving character of Eddie Guerrero as well as the ultimate babyface Rey Mysterio (did you know that he was in this match too? Because he was. & he was good too.), you start to really appreciate the story that's being told out there. The Magnum Opus of Eddie Guerrero's career and perhaps the Magnum Opus of the Ruthless Aggression Era, as it's certainly a candidate for perhaps the greatest match to take place between the end of the attitude era in 2001 all the way to the beginning of the PG era in mid 2008. I haven't decided whether this was five stars yet or just really, really fucking close, but I know that I'd consider this match to be a definite top 15 encounter in WWF/WWE history with a chance that it could be in the top 10.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Eddie/Rey 6/23/05- ****1/4
Taker/Orton SD 05- ****

Both matches make top 10 for the year, with Eddie/Rey being number 3.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I take it we'll get Bryan/Kane at payback?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Bryan/Kane upcoming feud should have just one PPv match, so D.B can continue to challenge DZ for the WHC t


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Bryan should NOT turn heel. 

He should just keep yelling and say it's not working out Kane I'm done, then have Kane attack him. Bryan wasn't much of a good heel IMO and SCREAMS babyface/underdog material. Not to mention he gets one of the biggest pops of the night. It'd be kinda cool to have a face that,MOST people can cheer.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bryan can absolutely shine at the top of the card as a heel, in fact its debatable if he's a better babyface worker than he is as a heel. As a heel he controls and dictates the pace and knows how to work a compelling control segment on top of being a strong character worker and able to inject a strong story and theme around his opponent at every opportunity. As a face he's equally adept at working underneath, being a great limb seller as well as just bumping and pinballing around and getting the crowd invested in him as well as having great offence that he can inject and switch up in his comebacks depending on his opponent.

At this moment in time though I do think they'd be foolish to have him go heel. The crowds love him and unlike 2010 its not just the New York, Chicago & Philly crowds now that are solely behind him. He'll absolutely be one of the most over guys in the more adult driven markets but even casual crowds are now rooting for him as well as joining in with the YES/NO schtick. WWE is crying out for a compelling babyface who can rotate between the midcard and uppercard and be used to feud with heels before they move onto Cena. Where WWE struggles today is their depleted roster has virtually no undercard and midcard babyfaces capable of drawing a reaction and working programs with up and coming heels. Thus you get new heels being rushed into big matches and programs far too early into their run and usually sees them struggling to gain any discernable momentum.

Amazing write up KOK on Eddie/Mysterio. Nailed every aspect of the match that makes it as compelling and wonderful a match as it turned out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't care if Bryan goes heel or stays face, as long as he gets a solid singles push and some great opponents to work against.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Thus you get new heels being rushed into big matches and programs far too early into their run and usually sees them struggling to gain any discernable momentum.


Not to mention the fact that the new unover heels get any momentum that they can muster buried 6 feet under when they're fed to Cena.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Exactly. Look at Sandow for example. He had a good starting run picking up basic and expected wins, but it gave him momentum and a chance to impress and grow into his character. Problem is that unlike WWE even 6 or 7 years ago, the likes of Matt Hardy, Benoit, Rey, Bourne, Morrison, Jeff & co aren't around to feud with up and comers before they progress to a main event program and the undercard faces that are available are so underdeveloped they can't get over consistently with the audience and people like Sandow run the risk of treading water aimlessly in the midcard for months on end or being elevated to working the Orton's & Sheamus' of the roster and aren't in a position to pick up notable wins this soon and WWE effectively has to force them to restart again as they suffer a span of losses.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

I'm more and more convinced that Bryan is this era's Guerrero/Benoit. He won't always get the push he deserves, but he'll always be the work horse and be that guy everyone can point anytime he wrestles and say to themselves, "yeah, this show might end up shitty, but we're gonna get at least one good match".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree w/WOOLCOCK that they'd be foolish to turn Bryan right now. I think given this current weak link storyline and his new aggressive attitude in an attempt to prove his worth is a great way to transition his character out of the full-blown comedy act to more of a serious role that is still over with fans of all ages.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan is just amazing. The past two Shield tag matches with him involved have been great-awesome. This week's one being ***3/4, mainly because of his performances. And I thought the Swagger match was a very good one as well at ***1/4. Bryan is my WOTY for now, passing Punk with this past week in mind (and the fact they were very close even before that) as his individual performances have been the highlight of the nights for shows in a row now, and with his new, more serious character, I don't see that stopping anytime soon.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I read someone's review of this week's Raw and all it said was "News Flash: Daniel Bryan is amazing." :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Exactly. Look at Sandow for example. He had a good starting run picking up basic and expected wins, but it gave him momentum and a chance to impress and grow into his character. Problem is that unlike WWE even 6 or 7 years ago, the likes of Matt Hardy, Benoit, Rey, Bourne, Morrison, Jeff & co aren't around to feud with up and comers before they progress to a main event program and the undercard faces that are available are so underdeveloped they can't get over consistently with the audience and people like Sandow run the risk of treading water aimlessly in the midcard for months on end or being elevated to working the Orton's & Sheamus' of the roster and aren't in a position to pick up notable wins this soon and WWE effectively has to force them to restart again as they suffer a span of losses.


Well said, WWE's midcard is simply nonexistent and therefore, none of the new guys manage to get over because there's no one out there to elevate them before getting near the main event.

The only credible people in the roster are Cena, Orton, Sheamus and Punk. Jericho does a lot to help the undercard by working with them as a veteran but he's jobbed so much that a win over him doesn't mean anything. I guess you can also add Kane and Big Show to the list but that's about it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

-Mystery- said:


> I'm more and more convinced that Bryan is this era's Guerrero/Benoit. He won't always get the push he deserves, but he'll always be the work horse and be that guy everyone can point anytime he wrestles and say to themselves, "yeah, this show might end up shitty, but we're gonna get at least one good match".





The Lady Killer said:


> I agree w/WOOLCOCK that they'd be foolish to turn Bryan right now. I think given this current weak link storyline and his new aggressive attitude in an attempt to prove his worth is a great way to transition his character out of the full-blown comedy act to more of a serious role that is still over with fans of all ages.


Agreed. I mentioned to Cody a few days back that he should be positioned to take over Mysterio's obligation and role in the company, sans the impressive merchandise sales. There's no reason he can't be positioned similarly to Rey from '05-'09 in terms of being a predominantly uppercard wrestler who will also be in a big midcard program should he ever drop back away from the uppercard. He's a proven commodity in the adult market as well as becoming more and more beloved and embraced by the casual market, can make anyone from Ryback to Johnny Curtis look great and can work anywhere on the card and deliver in his own way. I could see him being a multi time WHC champion within the next few years providing he doesn't suffer injury problems which stifle him and restrict his ability to feature higher up the card.

He's proven though his catapult to stardom last year post Wrestlemania wasn't a fluke or a short term facade and should rightly be treated now as a dependable and immense talent who can now go beyond merely making others look good but actually hold his own in bigger programs and seamlessly enter the main event mix when required and not look out of place. Given how piss poor the babyface side is after Cena, Orton & Sheamus, Bryan really should be looked at as a guy they cannot turn as it'll only be another heel who will suffer from a lack of compelling face to feud against as opposed to being a face people actually care about and who could work fresh programs with a plethora of talents, from Cesaro to Jericho to Ziggler to Del Rio to Ryback to Orton and hell even Sheamus.

And if there ever comes a day where he wins the WWE title, it will be one of those defining and truly emotional moments as no-one will deserve that time in the spotlight more than Bryan after his tremendous output since '02.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Would :mark: hard for an emotional WWE title chase after this transformation of character. Similar to Eddie/Benoit finally winning the respective main belts. Would be a great moment.

edit - Also, is it just me or has The Shield set a record for biggest proportion of their match resume eliciting "This is awesome" chants? I mean, I know Bryan has had a lot to do with most of them, but it's worth noting.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Well said, WWE's midcard is simply nonexistent and therefore, none of the new guys manage to get over because there's no one out there to elevate them before getting near the main event.
> 
> The only credible people in the roster are Cena, Orton, Sheamus and Punk. Jericho does a lot to help the undercard by working with them as a veteran but he's jobbed so much that a win over him doesn't mean anything. I guess you can also add Kane and Big Show to the list but that's about it.


Yup. Look at someone like Matt Hardy even near the end of his WWE run and how important he would be these days to the midcard. Not over enough that a main event push would ever be in the offing, but still someone the fans reacted to and capable of working with a new heel based on knowing what WWE is looking for in progressing a new guy up the card as well as still being a serviceable hand. Sure someone like Kofi might get reactions for a big spot, but do enough people care about Kofi to be invested when he works Sandow or the latest heel project?

WWE realises very few guys actually garner consistent reactions but sadly all of these are positioned firmly at the top of the card and thus whilst they remain the only people a new wrestler can shine against, they're too underdeveloped to pick up a win and thus suffer repetitive losses which ordinarily they'd never suffer if there was an actual midcard with babyfaces that can occupy the early months of a new heel's career before the eventual progression up the card.

Boggles my mind why Christian has apparently been ready for a while now and shows no signs of appearing. Again, he won't ever be over enough to become a mainstay at the top of the card but he was one of the better workers on the roster from '09-'11 and again has generally always gotten some form of reaction with crowds even in his later years.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Would :mark: hard for an emotional WWE title chase after this transformation of character. Similar to Eddie/Benoit finally winning the respective main belts. Would be a great moment.
> 
> edit - Also, is it just me or has The Shield set a record for biggest proportion of their match resume eliciting "This is awesome" chants? I mean, I know Bryan has had a lot to do with most of them, but it's worth noting.


Its hard to think of a man more deserving and generally as well liked as Bryan who could rival him in terms of that immense pride and satisfaction in seeing someone truly work their way to the top. His output since his break in ROH in '02 has been astounding with his true peak occuring in his '05-'06 title reign and beyond. The way he's adapted to the restrictions imposed by the WWE style and accentuated his already proven strengths to shine both as a face and heel despite being afforded little time compared to his Independent days just demonstrates the depth in the man's talent and the continued respect he carries from peers to fans judging by interviews and any meetings with fans demonstrates he's one of the most humble and likeable individuals on the roster.

I can't think of anyone tbh who has been afforded the time and protection in each of their matches this early into their career as The Shield have tbh. Even the likes of Benoit, Eddie, Mysterio & Finlay essentially grew into the respected workers they'd soon be regarded as, whereas from Day 1 The Shield have been protected in limiting their exposure and then given sufficient time on TV in addition to PPV to have their matches stand out from the rest.

edit: Ah bollocks. Was hoping someone would have posted to avoid the DP.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Would :mark: hard for an emotional WWE title chase after this transformation of character. Similar to Eddie/Benoit finally winning the respective main belts. Would be a great moment.
> 
> edit - Also, is it just me or has The Shield set a record for biggest proportion of their match resume eliciting "This is awesome" chants? I mean, I know Bryan has had a lot to do with most of them, but it's worth noting.


Hell yeah, Bryan chasing the WWE title (not WHC) after an emotional chase lasting a good while would be terrific. And it would have to be on a big stage, not TLC or something (though TLC was in Brooklyn last year and had a great crowd), it would have to be Mania or Summerslam or Survivor Series, or in a big WWE market. 

Shield is yet to do anything wrong in my eyes. The mark in me is really starting to come out in full force. Reigns can be better on the stick, and Rollins has gotten better at talking. Thought Rollins was especially good last night. Ambrose does a lot of little things really well. The way he goes for a pinfall, his movements. The Hart Attack was pretty sweet last night, but you couldn't expect Michael Cole to notice that on the fly, though I expect more from JBL. He seems like he's falling into a pattern like the other two. Though he is good at being the "unbiased" commetator.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^ Actually just gave that a watch. Thought Vince's comments were really nice, not that he'd come out and crap on him, but nonetheless. HE MENTIONED THE APP THOUGH. On the whole a nice little tribute.

Still can't get over Shawn's grizzly beard. Also, that's probably the first time I've really listened to Bret's theme. It's awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Gonna give the Bret appreciation night a watch in a few. Not the biggest Bret fan of all time but WWE usually does a good job with this stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What's up with HBK's beard lol. Looks kinda cool though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched the appreciation, you can love him or hate him but he is truly one of the greats, people are shitting on him in the wwe section say he half asses shit but I think he truly wanted to be there and is just awkward guy, not disrespect


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> just watched the appreciation, you can love him or hate him but he is truly one of the greats, people are shitting on him in the wwe section say he half asses shit but I think he truly wanted to be there and is just awkward guy, not disrespect


Honestly though, what doesn't get shit on in the WWE section? I'm sure if this forum was around in '97 they'd be nitpicking Taker/HBK's HIAC the second after it happened.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^^ haha I read some posts last night and they were all like" Bret basically call Patterson a ****" he homophobic, he didn't hug ppl enough

Edit: watching more PERFECT today. honest loved that man and right behind :hbk2 and :flair as my favorite

doing a mini perfect/bret series rating


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Duke Silver said:


> If they tease Punk/Jericho and we get Axel/Jericho, I'mma be pissed. And not in the good "oh those heels, they got me" kind of way.
> 
> Speaking of Axel, why did they change his music from awesome to generic? I guess it fits him better. :ex:
> 
> ...


LOL you hate Miz that much, huh? 8*D Rey is working on returning for Summer Slam at least. Christian should be here now.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I despise Miz that much as well. His picture would be by worthless in a wrestling themed dictionary.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect summerslam 91 ****1/2

excellent match
God Perfect was a great worker, to have this type of match with his bad back is crazy


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Anyone have a link to a blu-ray rip of the Bret Hart Dungeon Blu-Ray? Or at the least the bonus matches. I'm dying to see this Monday Night Raw Hakushi match and the new European distributor is having a laugh with prices and are charging extra for postage outside of Britain.....


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Forever Unchained said:


> Anyone have a link to a blu-ray rip of the Bret Hart Dungeon Blu-Ray? Or at the least the bonus matches. I'm dying to see this Monday Night Raw Hakushi match and the new European distributor is having a laugh with prices and are charging extra for postage outside of Britain.....


It's not a blu ray rip but the match is on dailymotion if you'd like to watch: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbjp23_bret-hart-vs-hakushi-7-24-95-raw_sport#.UaVe_XbD_IU


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Extreme Rules 2012 Review
*










*Randy Orton vs. Kane - Falls Count Anywhere Match*
This match opened the show in a very effective manner. It was basically a fun-in-crowd scuffle, with occupence of elements from the AE. The spots were of stylistic imagery and smartly designed. Orton got his well deserved win after falling victim to the Big Red Machine at Wrestlemania 28. If this had took place in another all out, no rule enforced company like TNA, It would have been regarded and rated as a typical spotfest with no diversity. However, The uncommonness for this take place in a PG "superstar" environment, ala WWE, eluded our visions into thinking it was new and fresh. Anytime, A match is able to do that, It deserves a respectable rating. ***1/4


*Ziggler vs. Brodus Clay*
Ziggler attempting to carry. He should learn to carry himself first, before the frame of 400+ pounder. In all honesty, It was quite the hilarity of a struggle. ** for the laughs, * for the match.


*Big Show vs. Cody Rhodes - Table Match for the IC Championship.*
The finish of this match was executed in a way of not damaging The Giant's state/creditability, but still reverting the title back to Rhodes, Quite intelligent, If you ask me. Thrown was, a few good spots here and there, It unfortunately wasn't enough to cancel out the significant downtime in only a 5 minute match. **


*Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan - 2 Out of 3 Falls for the World Heavyweight Championship*
Sheamus was working with arguably the greatest in-ring worker of the 2000s. So for him not to miss a beat and go with the flow, Bryan was pacing at, was an impressive sight in of itself. The match's main central piece of attention was Bryan putting into action, a calculated gameplan in attempts of winning the match. In ring psychology and storytelling will always be the apple of my eye, as far as wrestling goes as a whole. I would rather firmly watch a Triple H-Big Show match than fidgeting and fast forwarding into a Benoit-Angle one. This match implemented the two (Actual Work & Storytelling/Psychology) to great extent. ****1/4


*Ryback vs. Jobbers*
It was a filler match, What's there to be said? I did however, thoroughly enjoy the imminent "Goldberg" chants. N/A for rating.


*CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - Chicago Street Fight for the WWE Championship*
Almost a mirror of Jericho-Shawn UF 2008, but didn't quite hit that level, due to the hatred between Punk and Jeri not being authentic and natural enough. However, The spots weren't a victim of predicability, All came across as shocking and out of the blue. Weapon usage was of heavy reliance, everything from scraps of broken tables to kendle sticks were utilized in combat. Jericho's heel antics never cease to amaze me, taunting Punk's sister and going for his own GTS, were just two of these amazements. Punk's performance was above average, I would say. He's definitely not babyface compatible, This was his true peak as far as performance goes in this specific role. ****
*


Filler Divas Match*
No one cares and judging from the subtitle, I don't either. Let's carry on.


*Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena*
Spectacular match. Not like the other, Lesnar inflicts one of the most believable beat downs ever. Live watching made me speculate whether or not they'd stop the match for excessive bleeding and violence. Cena is deserving of credit as well, mainly for the undertaking of a head-on bashing. Hell, even Cena's selling was diverse, He directed away from the typical one hit wonders and acted upon a long term effect. The match was worked in such a unique way, that the crowd/audience couldn't predictable what would happen next. Basically, One big shocker after another. The ending could have gone either way. Cena was on an unusual losing streak, while it was Brock's return match. Split down the middle in a sense. On that note, The ending was probably the worst booked of all time. I'm not gonna get into that though, It's of my preference to base matches off their contents, Not aftermaths. Something with this much realism, will never scrap the skin of a wrestling ring again, At least not anytime soon. Rock can take a hike with his below-par performance at Wrestlemania 28, This was the true once in a lifetime match. ****3/4​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I actually read a report saying WWE wasn't sure if Shield would be on the PPV at all and that they rushed the Title rematches to RAW last night, but if that match does go down I don't really have any problem with it. Shield retain the belts and maybe it plants the seeds of ONE of the Celtic Viperslol) turning heel? Which would probably be Sheamus since Orton seems to be like the most over guy in whole fucking company...
> 
> Cody avoids this thread all of last night, thus missing my Super Calo post. It was just for you...


Repost it please. 

I agree, lol @ "Celtic Vipers". So bad.

Oh and I could go into detail atm, but I'm feeling lazy. I adored the tag team championship match from RAW. ******. Off the top of my head its about the best tag team championship match I've seen from the company in YEARS. Between Kane being reborn and fresh, Danielson being the greatest worker ever, Rollins wicked bumping, & Reigns' general AWESOMENESS it was stellar. <3 All those guys.

WOOLCOCK's posts about the state of WWE's midcard & Danielson was genius. 100% agree as I often do.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Repost it please.
> 
> I agree, lol @ "Celtic Vipers". So bad.
> 
> ...


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18891810-post14601.html

Liked the tag match but Kane always telling Bryan to calm down annoyed me and I thought the finish was weak as shit. Everything else was great though, marked hard for Rollins using the surfboard, although I was REALLY hoping after he held his arms up that he was just gonna stomp Bryan's knees to the mat. That would've been legendary role reversal.

EDIT: Oh and btw nice review for ER 2012, our ratings are damn near identical.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ER 2012 Ratings I can recall:

Kane/Orton- ***
Show/Cody- *1/2
Bryan/Sheamus- ****
Punk/Jericho- ***3/4
Brock/Cena- ****1/4

Oh, and on Perfect/Hart, haven't seen the SS match but KOTR I have at ****1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18891810-post14601.html
> 
> Liked the tag match but Kane always telling Bryan to calm down annoyed me and I thought the finish was weak as shit. Everything else was great though, marked hard for Rollins using the surfboard, although I was REALLY hoping after he held his arms up that he was just gonna stomp Bryan's knees to the mat. That would've been legendary role reversal.


Quality stuff. Too bad you started off with Konnan, but luckily Calo's awesome nature didn't leave you thinking he was bad thanks to working vs the biggest shit. :lmao @ Larry Z calling Silver King "Silver Fist". He was such an asshole on commentary, haha. I love me Super Calo. (Y)

I had no gripes with Kane doing so. It fed into the story fine. Finish worked too considering that is Rollins finisher for the time being. Not to mention he clobbered Kane in the head with the knee. All good. I still can't get over Reigns' work in the match though. Good lord was he pumped. He was demolishing Danielson on every move. The shoulder block of DOOM~! happened in it. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah just watched the tag myself. Is anyone even close to being in Bryan's league right now? Christ.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not a soul out there.

Danielson is in a league of his own.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Him "hulking up" in the corner after DAT GERMAN on Rollins was priceless :lmao


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

A prime Benoit or a prime Bryan?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah just watched the tag myself. Is anyone even close to being in Bryan's league right now? Christ.


Bryan's so far above everyone else right now it's not even funny. In terms of match quality this year and just individual performances, he's untouchable. I mean yeah, I have Taker/Punk as MOTY, and yeah Punk has the match with Cena on Raw, and a match with Jericho that was great but for each of those two Bryan has a better/as good match/performance with The Shield/Jericho/Swagger/whoever. Again, Bryan's pretty much forced himself into the top spot for WOTY this year so far.



> A prime Benoit or a prime Bryan?


I would say Benoit right, but truth be told I think Bryan's just getting into his prime... well at least in WWE anyway since that's all I can comment on. I've always known of his abilities but now that we're actually getting to see them in fairly high profile matches on a weekly basis, something twice a week, it's just amazing.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Quality stuff. Too bad you started off with Konnan, but luckily Calo's awesome nature didn't leave you thinking he was bad thanks to working vs the biggest shit. :lmao @ Larry Z calling Silver King "Silver Fist". He was such an asshole on commentary, haha. I love me Super Calo. (Y)
> 
> I had no gripes with Kane doing so. It fed into the story fine. Finish worked too considering that is Rollins finisher for the time being. Not to mention he clobbered Kane in the head with the knee. All good. I still can't get over Reigns' work in the match though. Good lord was he pumped. He was demolishing Danielson on every move. The shoulder block of DOOM~! happened in it. :mark:


You were totally right about Calo, dude's so entertaining. 

I just wish Kane was booked a _little _bit more like a monster and not losing to one single springboard knee. I know it's Rollins finisher, but it still looks weak to me against a guy Kane's size. Minor gripe. REIGNS :mark: Guy's gonna be such a star, fuck Batista he's gonna surpass that. haha

Tell me what to watch tonight, please. Anything, anywhere, any company. Just throw some choices out there. I have no fucking clue, there's too much in front of me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Him "hulking up" in the corner after DAT GERMAN on Rollins was priceless :lmao


:lmao

I dubbed him "The Ultimate Dragon" _(get it?)_ in the midst of my marking out. 



Fluze said:


> A prime Benoit or a prime Bryan?


Danielson for me in what I'd honestly dub as a landslide.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> :lmao
> 
> I dubbed him "The Ultimate Dragon" _(get it?)_ in the midst of my marking out.
> 
> Danielson for me in what I'd honestly dub as a landslide.






Gamblor said:


> Bryan's so far above everyone else right now it's not even funny. In terms of match quality this year and just individual performances, he's untouchable. I mean yeah, I have Taker/Punk as MOTY, and yeah Punk has the match with Cena on Raw, and a match with Jericho that was great but for each of those two Bryan has a better/as good match/performance with The Shield/Jericho/Swagger/whoever. Again, Bryan's pretty much forced himself into the top spot for WOTY this year so far.
> 
> I would say Benoit right, but truth be told I think Bryan's just getting into his prime... well at least in WWE anyway since that's all I can comment on. I've always known of his abilities but now that we're actually getting to see them in fairly high profile matches on a weekly basis, something twice a week, it's just amazing.


Give Danielson a singles program with the build of Punk/Taker or the length of Punk/Cena and I can almost guarantee it would surpass it. For what he's been given this year (a bunch of tag matches), the fact that he's front and center of WOTY discussion is quite impressive.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Give Danielson a singles program with the build of Punk/Taker or the length of Punk/Cena and I can almost guarantee it would surpass it. For what he's been given this year (a bunch of tag matches), the fact that he's front and center of WOTY discussion is quite impressive.


Precisely. It's just amazing what he can do given the little he's given. Taker/Bryan at Mania I think could surpass even Taker/Punk and Taker/HBK WM26. The program itself... who knows? But the match would be off the charts. Best chance we have for Taker/Bryan though is at Summerslam or another non-Mania PPV.

But hell, of course it's not just Taker/Bryan that has a ton of potential. Lesnar/Bryan would be off the charts. And if there's anyone that could potentially get another classic out of HHH (first time in 8+ years), it would be Bryan. And hell, he could probably even give Rock the best match Rock can have since returning in 2011. All these big matches have so much potential because of Bryan. 

I think I can say I'm a mark for the guy now. Man has been off the chain this year, especially the last month.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Precisely. It's just amazing what he can do given the little he's given. Taker/Bryan at Mania I think could surpass even Taker/Punk and *Taker/HBK WM26*. The program itself... who knows? But the match would be off the charts. Best chance we have for Taker/Bryan though is at Summerslam or another non-Mania PPV.


:hbk2 that was a flawless match kid


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> :hbk2 that was a flawless match kid


Ain't even in Taker's top 5. :hbk (there's no "mad/sad HBK" smilie  )


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You were totally right about Calo, dude's so entertaining.
> 
> I just wish Kane was booked a _little _bit more like a monster and not losing to one single springboard knee. I know it's Rollins finisher, but it still looks weak to me against a guy Kane's size. Minor gripe. REIGNS :mark: Guy's gonna be such a star, fuck Batista he's gonna surpass that. haha
> 
> Tell me what to watch tonight, please. Anything, anywhere, any company. Just throw some choices out there. I have no fucking clue, there's too much in front of me.


I know how to find talent. Paul Heyman style. 

I can understand that. I personally don't have the same gripe, yet, it's plausible. Roman Reigns - WWE's next beast like force. Yes please.

Something to watch, eh? Hmmmmm. I feel like a plug towards Chikara is obvious, but I mean there is nothing wrong with that. Don't know if you have any downloaded or on DVD to check out so if not, then I say go en route to watching NJPW Dominion 2012. Tanahashi vs Okada II~! OR every Shield match to keep on the WWE motif. Any one of those. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:bearer you crazy, in all honestly lesnar/taker :mark: :mark:, are they still on the lesnar would be to rough for taker or was that dirtsheets


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Bryan-Undie would be the closest to Benoit-Undie ever. Bryan keeps my blood flowing in between matches and being such a newy, I'm surprised he actually has a crowd going for him, let alone knowing how to control them, ala YES chants. His speed is untouchable, especially when executing that suicide dive.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I probably wouldn't put it in Undertaker's top five either. Some minority picks would make the cut I'm sure. That list would take a bit for me to finalize though. Undertaker's best matches. I'd have to get that just right to do him justice. He's the best after all.

:taker

there really needs to be a more positive Deadman smiley, even though that one ^ is quite grand.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Undie's the best, but i'm bias, cause he's my favorite.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. Although I think he's good enough to escape any aspects of appraisal being dubbed as biased. 

:side:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I hear ya, ever since 2002, Undie (in my mind) has been regarded as the best of the best. His epic ABA heel turn from that year to the 2007, where he arguably got into the best shape ever. Amazing is the only way i can define him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His in ring work upped a notch and become much more consistent. Not to say previous years he wasn't at a top notch level - once he dropped the full on "dead guy" style of working matches it was off to the races - but def found a groove upon his comeback as the American Bad Ass. His 2003 was so great. Only match I can recall not really digging was the Biker Chain Match vs Lesnar. Rest on PPV and TV was plenty worth seeing. 2004 was a bit of a step back in the wrong direction, but I'll credit that to his lack of exposure more than his work dropping down a peg. He only had about 15 matches or so the entire time. Managed to have a great one vs Cena all the same. Amazing moniker fits wonderfully.

During the years he wasn't exactly having the greatest matches often, he was still the MAN in the character department. 1999 screams out. Ministry Undertaker will always be my personal favorite time. Epic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

My favorite is Shawn but Ric the greatest the "ultimate package"


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Taker, here's a post I made in the "Rate Taker as an in-ring worker thread" that sums up my thoughts on Taker:



Spoiler: so it doesn't stretch the page as it's a long one



Here's how I'd see it:

1997 I can say was very good. Some solid PPV bouts, and great ones with Austin and Bret Hart, not to mention an all-time classic at Badd Blood.

1998 was a mixed bag. Great start with the casket match with HBK and an awesome match with Kane at Mania, not to mention the match with Austin at Summerslam, while a disappointment by the hype it had, it still was good. And of course he's part of one of the most legendary matches of all time, with Mankind at KOTR (which was mostly down to Foley, but still worth a mention). Overall 1998 was alright.

1999 was mediocre. He had a few good-great matches. Shamrock at Backlash, Rock at KOTR, Austin at Fully Loaded, and even the tag at Summerslam was fun. Of course what brings the year down is his TV matches were all trash outside of the one where Austin won the title back on Raw, which wasn't that good itself. He also had that bad one at Over the Edge with Austin (though given the circumstances, I'd give that one a pass), and then an arguable Worst of All Time match against Bossman at Mania, and the worst cell match of all time easily. Character wise he may have hit his peak, but in-ring wise it could be argued at his worst... but...

2000 was bad. He returned, was incredibly rusty, seemed out of shape, couldn't seem to get his mojo down until maybe the end of the year where he had a good title match with Angle at SVS, and was part of the super fun HIAC. But overall it was a very bad year for him, and I'd say his worst.

2001 was alright. Great match with HHH at Mania, good tag at Backlash and awesome match with Austin at JD. 2001 Taker was finally getting back into the swing of the things. Some decent-good TV matches with RVD, Booker T, Angle, etc. He also at a great match with RVD at Vengeance at the end of the year. He had his bad spots too, mainly the stuff with DDP and the Summerslam tag he had, but it was certainly a step up from 1999 and 2000.

2002 was great. Taker's best year to this point. Great PPV matches with Rock, Flair, Angle, Lesnar, and even a solid bout with Test at Summerslam. TV work was on point as well with some good-great shit with Angle, RVD, Matt Hardyand of course, how could we forget the awesome ladder match with Jeff Hardy? The HIAC with Lesnar is top 10 match of all time for me. The Vengeance triple threat is up there on the GOAT list as well. Taker just played the badass heel so well, and then transitioned in the veteran face teaching the young punk Brock a lesson, and ultimately put Brock over and made him the top guy of the company. His Undisputed title run was easily the best Undisputed Title run ever as well. Yeah, his BL, JD, and KOTR matches with Austin, Hogan, and HHH weren't anything special and in the HHH match's case, downright terrible, but the positives this year far outweighed the negatives.

2003 was great. A small step down from 02 but still among his better years to this point. The handicap match at Mania was a solid match, but the Mania as a whole was awesome and that match might've been the worst match of the night... but that doesn't make it bad. It shows just how great Mania 19 was. NWO 03 match against Big Show was great. Had a couple of good tournament matches with Cena and Mysterio, and speaking of Cena h gave Cena matches that would end up being Cena's best matches comfortably up until the JBL JD 05 match, and more importantly gave Cena a huge rub, the first big rub of Cena's career. He also had an arguable top 10 match with Angle on Smackdown, and another great match with Lesnar at No Mercy.

2004 was very good. He came back as the deadman, but didn't do anything too memorable for most of the year. JBL Summerslam match was good fun and the Last Ride match was great. Armageddon as well... and actually, the Heidenreich match at Survivor Series was great as well. Actually... come to think of it he also had that awesome TV match with Cena as well... which to that point was Cena's best match. However he also had some bad. The Booker T JD match was incredibly forgettable and the handicap Dudley Boyz match at GAB was terrible. Also his return match wasn't anything special against Kane.

2005 was awesome. Getting the NWO Luther Reigns match out of the way as terrible, and the Hassan match at GAB was bad, I don't think he had anything below good at all after that. His feud with Orton produced many awesome matches, nothing going below great. Also had good and great TV matches with JBL.

2006 was excellent. Arguable top 5 match of all time with Angle at No Way Out 2006, and then an awesome TV match a few weeks following. Series with Kennedy were Kennedy's best matches in WWE. And then there's the great ECW tv match with Big Show. Taker himself was a top level worker, but what brings the year down is he had to work Henry at Mania, Khali, and then that Punjabi Prison match Show. To his credit though, he did give Khali his best match ever in the LMS... but even then that might've been better on TV then it actually was due to how they edited it. But even then Taker was one of the best workers in the company that year, maybe only behind Rey, Benoit, and Finlay.

2007 was incredible. Not a bad match all year from what I recall. I mean the Henry Unforgiven match wasn't good, but it wasn't bad either. Even when he competed injured. Had the GOAT RR ending with HBK. Followed that up with an amazing tag match at NWO. And then delivered a classic with Batista at Mania, MOTY 2007 and Batista's best match. Then proceeded to have great match after great match with Batista, including the cage match where he was injured. Came back and tore the house down with Batista again in arguably another classic at Cyber Sunday. HIAC match was excellent and the triple threat with Edge and Batista was great as well. There's also an awesome TV match with Finlay before Mania, the rematch from NWO which was very good as well, and I think there was a sweet 4 on 4 tag match somewhere with him teaming with Batista, HBK, and Cena to face Edge, Orton, MVP and Kennedy. Taker was WOTY 2007 for me.

2008 was just as incredible as 2007. He was a pretty big part in the great Rumble match, had a great EC outing with Batista, one of the best Mania main event matches ever with Edge, a couple of great rematches at BL and JD following, as well as a great match with Kane on SD and a very good outing with Festus as well. TLC match was good as well, and the HIAC with Edge was a classic. He then feuds with Big Show and has a great brawl with him at NM, an amazing LMS match at Cyber Sunday, and then a great cage match somewhere in there. And there's the Jeff Hardy extreme rules match that was great. Only bad match I can recall is the SVS casket match. That's it. Between 2007 and 2008, no one had two more consistent years than Taker imho. No one. Not Cena in 06-07, not HBK any two years, not HHH in 00-01, no one. Closest someone comes is Benoit who had two incredible close years in 04 and 06... but 05 wasn't quite as great as it could've been (though it was still great to be fair). But yeah... amazing stuff from Taker. WOTY 2008 as well.

2009 Taker started off amazingly. Great Rumble showing, great EC match, and the GOAT match with HBK at WM25. Had a good TV match with Matt Hardy on Superstars (?) debut, and a great match with Show before he disappeared. Came back and wasn't the same man. Not bad and clearly he could deal with the injuries better than he did in 2000, but he was off. Mediocre match with Punk at BP (which was more due to how the match was structured and the ending, not much the performers could do). HIAC was good but weak for Cell matches, and had some good PPV multi-man bouts but nothing great and nothing I'd call Taker the best worker in. Still a great year all around, but there was a big drop off between his leave in April and his return in August.

2010 was great year actually. He actually had a great match with Mysterio, who had an awesome year himself. EC match he was in was an excellent one, and then he had a classic with HBK (again) at Mania. Then he appears on and off, wrestling a decent TV match with Swagger and a very good one with Mysterio on Smackdown. Comes back and has such an awesome match with Punk that it almost makes up for the series the year prior, and I'd call the NOC match with Kane very good. However after that, things start going downhill again, ironically enough when he becomes "SUPER POWEREDZ!" by the returning Bearer and the urn. He squashes Punk and then has one of the worst Cell matches of all time, and just a horrible match in general against Kane. Then he has another horrible match against Kane in the Buried Alive match. So those final three matches are what really bring the year down, as Taker didn't have that many matches that year. However now that I think about it, he also think he had a good TV match with Jericho around EC time.

2011 was... well... he only wrestled one match, lol. However it was a great match and it's worth noting Taker had a GOAT selling job in the match. Still amazes me to this day, and the match itself also has the greatest near-fall in the streak.

2012... again, he only wrestled once. Better match than the year prior, though Taker didn't have to sell quite to the level he did last year, he played the aggressor very very well and sold well in the early parts of the match when he had too.

2013... YAY! He's wrestled more than one match so far! The Punk match at Mania is a classic and MOTY to this point. He also was involved in the Shield's second best match to-date and had a good, albeit short, match with Ambrose on Smackdown. He did return and wrestle at a House Show as well, and from what I saw in that he did a good job there as well. So far a great year wrestling wise by Taker.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't even think Taker/Shawn at Mania 26 was Taker's best match that year.


What are really good SmackDown matches from 2008? Matt Hardy's run would have been good. There's Taker v. Kane, Festus, and Show. Finlay v. Palumbo was on SD, I think. Anything else?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Festus vs Koslov 8/15


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh shit yeah. Forgot about that. I should watch a million Festus in 2008 matches one day, he seemed to have a good year. Fuck, I need to make an actual 'Watch This Motherfucker on YouTube In Bundles' list.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Don't remember much about Festus outside of two things:

1) Taker match
2) 




You knew shit was goin' down when that theme hit! :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> *I don't even think Taker/Shawn at Mania 26 was Taker's best match that year.*
> 
> 
> What are really good SmackDown matches from 2008? Matt Hardy's run would have been good. There's Taker v. Kane, Festus, and Show. Finlay v. Palumbo was on SD, I think. Anything else?


Wowww very interesting, I'm in the group that thinks wm26>25. Wait let me take a guess rey/taker smackdown b4 fatal 4 way


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Festus vs Koslov 8/15


Just looking at that match, it sounds like it wouldn't be good. But I can see how it would be.

And yeah1993, what do you have about HBK/Taker from '10?!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think its the taker/rey match from smackdown


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I find that interesting as well Yeah1993. Only match I can think of is the SD Taker/Punk, though at the same time I know how much you love Rey's work, and if I remember correctly you thought his 2010 was top-notch, so it could be one of the Rey matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember liking Batista vs John Morrison from 5/9 too b/c Morrison was owning Batista left and right damn near the entire match. It was pretty awesome. Pretty certain Big Show vs Jeff Hardy 12/16 owns too. Classic heel Show domination + babyface Jeff work.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project*








*Rhyno, Edge, and Christian vs Chris Jericho & Matt Hardy- Smackdown 5/3/01 *

Time for more Rhyno gems. This time, it is a Handicap match all thanks to the WWF commissioner William Regal. Jericho attacked William Regal on RAW and as a result, he books Jericho in a Handicap match against Rhyno, Edge, and Christian with Matt Hardy as his tag team partner. Jericho and Christian kick this match off first. Christian hammers away punches on Jericho to take him down. Christian Irish whips Jericho to the ropes but Jericho hits Christian with a flying clothesline. Jericho, who is now in control, hits Christian with a missle dropkick. Rhyno runs into the ring but gets hit with a spinning heel kick. Jericho tags in Matt Hardy. Hardy goes for a running clothesline on Christian but ends up getting a clothesline from Rhyno as well. Christian stomps on Hardy's lower back and tags in Edge. Edge throws Matt Hardy into the corner turnbuckle and bangs his head onto the bottom turnbuckle. Matt Hardy tries to fight back but Edge grounds him. Rhyno gets tagged in by Edge who hits Matt Hardy with a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno stomps on Hardy's abdomen and goes for a cover but Matt Hardy kicks out at 2. Rhyno hits Matt Hardy with a running kick and then goes to tag in Christian. Matt Hardy is able to fight off Christian and hits him with a clothesline. Matt Hardy crawls to tag in Jericho but the referee is distracted with Edge with the referee not seeing the tag, making Matt Hardy the legal man still. While the referee is distracted with Jericho now, Christian and Edge work on Matt Hardy's stomach and lower back. Edge stomps on Matt Hardy's lower back and hits Hardy with a standing dropkick. Edge goes for a cover but Matt Hardy kicks out at 2. Edge tags in Christian and punches Matt Hardy right in the rib area. Christian gives Matt Hardy a headlock submission with Matt Hardy fighting out of it but Christian takes Hardy down with an Inverted facelock backbreaker. Christian goes for a pinfall but Jericho breaks up the pin. Christian tags in Rhyno who Irish whips Matt Hardy into the corner ropes for a running clothesline but misses. Matt Hardy crawls to tag in Jericho but Rhyno pulls Hardy by the hair. Rhyno puts Hardy on his shoulders but Hardy ends up giving Rhyno a reverse DDT instead. Matt Hardy tags in Jericho for a hot tag and Jericho clears house, knocking Christian off the ring apron and hitting Edge with a one-handed bulldog. Jericho follows that up with hitting the Lionsault on Edge. Jericho goes for a pinfall but Christian breaks up the pin. Christian Irish whips Jericho to the ropes with Matt Hardy tagging himself in and Rhyno ends up dragging Jericho out of the ring by his legs. Matt Hardy hits Christian with a flying clothesline from out of nowhere. Suddenly, Eddie Guerrero makes his way down to the ring and so does Lita with Matt Hardy getting distracted and Edge hits Hardy with a spear. Edge pins Matt Hardy but the referee is distracted with Lita. Eddie Guerrero attacks Edge and Matt Hardy hits Edge with a Twist of Fate, going for a pinfall and winning the match. 

Solid match. I liked the fact that Edge, Christian, and Rhyno worked on Matt Hardy's lower back for almost the entire match and tried to keep Hardy away from tagging in Jericho at all costs. The finish was a little overbooked which dragged the match down a bit but overall, it was a pretty decent Handicap match. *Rating:* ★★3/4


*Rhyno, Edge, and Christian vs Eddie Guerrero, Jeff Hardy, and Matt Hardy- RAW Is War 5/7/01*

Rhyno tags with Edge & Christian again to take on Eddie Guerrero & The Hardyz after last week on Smackdown when Eddie Guerrero costed Rhyno, Edge, and Christian the Handicap match against Matt Hardy and Chris Jericho. The Hardyz don't know if they can trust Eddie so expect a lot of that to play into the 6-man tag team match. Matt Hardy and Christian start this match off. Matt Hardy goes over to talk to Eddie but gets blind-sided by Christian. Matt Hardy takes Christian down with a clothesline. Matt Hardy is hesistant on who to tag between Eddie and Jeff but Matt tags in Jeff which gets Eddie a little annoyed. Jeff Hardy gets the upperhand in the match until Christian hits him with an Inverted facelock backbreaker. Christian stomps on Jeff Hardy's lower back and tags in Rhyno. Rhyno Irish whips Jeff Hardy and hits him with a belly to belly suplex. Rhyno goes for a cover but Jeff kicks out. Rhyno tags in Edge who kicks Jeff Hardy right in the stomach. Edge knocks Eddie off the ring apron which ticks Eddie off so he tries to go after Edge but the referee tries to hold him back. While the referee is distracted with Eddie, Matt Hardy attacks Edge and tries to hit him with a Twist of Fate but Christian gives Matt Hardy a Killswich. Edge throws Matt Hardy out of the ring and hits Jeff Hardy with a DDT. Edge goes on the top rope to hit Jeff Hardy with an elbow drop but misses as Jeff Hardy gets out of the way. Eddie Guerrero and Rhyno both get tagged in for a hot tag with Eddie sending Rhyno out of the ring. Christian tries to blind-side Eddie but gets hit with a Hurricanrana. Eddie knocks Rhyno off the ring apron and back outside the ring he goes. Edge attacks Eddie from behind but Eddie fights him off. The numbers are stacked on Eddie with Christian and Edge going after him. Edge turns his attention on Matt while Christian works on Eddie. While the referee is distracted with Eddie and Christian, Lita jumps on the top rope and gives Edge a flying Hurricanrana. Rhyno sets up to Gore Lita but Eddie runs in Lita's way so he takes the gore instead. Rhyno wins the match and scores the win for his team.

This was really, really good. The ending is also great with Eddie Guerrero sacrificing himself by eating a gore from Rhyno in order to save Lita from getting gore'd. It was a nice touch on things and added a lot to the "Can Eddie Guerrero be trusted?" aspect of the match. Yeah it's a short match but it gets the job done and it delivers in the process. I know I might be overrating this a little bit but whatever, sue me.  Good match that I recommend giving a watch. *Rating:* ★★★1/2 


*Rhyno(c) vs Bradshaw for the WWF Hardcore title- Smackdown 5/10/01*

Rhyno, who is going into this match as the Hardcore champion, defends his Hardcore title against Bradshaw. Both men lock up and Bradshaw gets the upperhand. Bradshaw Irish whips Rhyno but Rhyno reverses it, Irish whipping Bradshaw into the corner ropes instead and giving him a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno Irish whips Bradshaw (I was so close to typing JBL) for a back bodydrop but Bradshaw hits Rhyno on the back with his forearm and hammers away punches on Rhyno but Rhyno tosses Bradshaw out of the ring. Rhyno goes outside the ring and they at it for a bit with Bradshaw getting the upperhand and throwing Rhyno's head onto steel steps. Bradshaw throws Rhyno's head again onto steel steps. Bradshaw takes one of the steel steps and throws it into the ring along with throwing Rhyno back inside the ring. Bradshaw takes the steel steps and bashes Rhyno with it as Rhyno falls outside the ring. Bradshaw tries to throw the steel steps at Rhyno but Rhyno quickly moves out of the way. Bradshaw gets out of the ring but gets hit with a trashcan lid by Rhyno. Bradshaw gets hit with the trashcan lid again from Rhyno. Rhyno goes to Irish whip Bradshaw onto the barricade but Bradshaw ends up throwing Rhyno across the barricade. Bradshaw throws Rhyno over the barricade and the fight now takes place through the crowd. Bradshaw takes Rhyno by the hair and throws him onto a wall. Bradshaw takes a singapore cane and tries to hit Rhyno with it but Rhyno ducks out of the way and throws punches at Bradshaw. Rhyno and Bradshaw fight some more and the fight now takes place backstage. Rhyno tries to give Bradshaw a gore and ends up hitting boxes stacked onto each other. Bradshaw grabs Rhyno and they climb onto a huge box. Bradshaw attmepts a powerbomb on Rhyno but suddenly Big Show appears on top of the box with a 2x4 and strikes Bradshaw with it. Big Show chokeslams Bradshaw on what looks to be some sort of table and Rhyno goes for the pinfall, retaining his Hardcore title.

Your usual brawl, nothing more. *Rating:* ★★


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I remember liking Batista vs John Morrison from 5/9 too b/c Morrison was owning Batista left and right damn near the entire match. It was pretty awesome. Pretty certain Big Show vs Jeff Hardy 12/16 owns too. Classic heel Show domination + babyface Jeff work.


That Batista/Morrison match is rather fun. Watched it the other day. 

"MORRISON OWNS" - TLK


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Just looking at that match, it sounds like it wouldn't be good. But I can see how it would be.
> 
> And yeah1993, what do you have about HBK/Taker from '10?!


Oh it's among one of Koslov's few best. It's two dudes beating the holy crap out of each other for 3 1/2 minutes. I liked it even back when it first aired and I thought Koslov couldn't do anything right. I've actually found a few matches here and there I like from the guy. They aren't pretty matches, but they've been pretty good.

EDIT ~ 

Good to know it still holds up. I just remember it very vividly b/c I watched it with my bud and we were loving it. Morrison needs to return.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bret/perfect KOTR ****1/4

*I liked how the had some ss91 call back but it doesn't have the same emotion and feeling of that match. I like this one but ss91 is better imo


Edit: excuse me for the grammar


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I prefer SummerSlam '91 too. I can watch that one for days.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, Bryan's the fucking man. It's weird, because if you ask a casual wrestling fan on here what makes Danielson so great, they'll attribute it to his crispness in the ring and all of his "technical prowess with movez & such" without really knowing what in the hell it actually means, he just has the gimmick of a great wrestler so they believe he's a great wrestler (however, this is not always the case obviously). Why I believe that Bryan is the best in the world is not due to his "technical prowess", but rather his understanding on how to piece together a match using various mannerisms and character traits to really go out there and tell a story. He'll add THAT much more to the match on a move of us, such as a simple eye rake or screaming profusely when he's supposed to be out of control. He's been so excellent in the tag game for a while, producing a laundry list of great matches once he got the time and resources to go out and produce (SHIELD), but it's time for him to break off and really shine as a singles competitor.

If we're talking about ONE MATCH & we need it to be a guaranteed four star encounter? I'm still taking BROCK or Taker at this juncture. Well, MAYBE Brock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't get me started on the Danielson vs Brock potential. Moment Brock returned last year that was the first match I jumped towards that I thought needs to happen.

Under the same token Danielson vs Taker would be a dream come true. They managed to team. I got about as close as I think I'll be able to get.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Do you want to know a feud that would have a ton of potential in the match department? A face Danielson against a heel Big Show. I think Danielson against a monster is just an excellent fit for some reason as the flow of matches such as the Henry encounter from 2011 (cage) are just excellent with great storytelling and simplistic yet vivid tendencies.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

if I remember correctly they had some decent smackdown matches last year dbryan and show

Edit: but I would prefer to see a face ziggler against henry if we are talking about david vs Goliath type matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah, face Danielson vs heel Show would no doubt be tremendous. There was a glimmer of that on a late Smackdown last year. Match was short, but plenty sweet. A longer match & program out of it would be killer.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I know you're talking about Bryan vs big guys, but did we see Bryan/Mysterio at all?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

They had alittle match on raw A few months ago


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

x2. Both were quite awesome for the time given.

First got around nine & the second got only five. Worth checking out.

the first was from 2012 btw.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rey Mysterio Vs Brock Lesnar

Rey Mysterio's retirement match in his home state of California; Summerslam 2013.

I CAN FUCKING DREAM YOU FUCKERS.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Mysterio is done. He looked pretty out of shape last year and his injuries have really hindered his biggest asset - his moveset.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MOTYC breakdown by month from WWE:

January - Two

February - Seven

March - Zero

April - Ten

May - Six

Despite April having the most by month, I think May have been my overall favorite thanks to all of the Shield abundance. Plus, Danielson going nuts more than usual. It's bred so much that I've loved. Less months like March are going to be welcomed. WM build didn't bring the goods in the wrestling department except for with Cena vs Punker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What on earth did we get in April besides Punk/Taker, Shield/BoDBryan, and Swagger/Rio?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

10) The Shield vs Big Show, Sheamus, & Randy Orton - ***1/2 (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

11) The Undertaker vs CM Punk - ****1/4 (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

12) No Holds Barred Match
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - **** (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

13) William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - ****1/4 (NXT - 4/10)

14) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/19)

15) The Shield vs The Undertaker, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/22)

16) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Adrian Neville - ***1/2 (NXT - 4/24)

17) No Holds Barred Match
Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/26)

18) Big Show vs Sheamus - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 4/26)

19) The Shield vs John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/29)

^^^


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Jumbo vs Misawa (9/1/1990) *****

Along my list of personal favorite matches ever. Are general reviews allowed in here, or just WWE?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Discussion wise it really doesn't matter as there have been topics from Japan to the great days of ROH spoken in here. There is a Puro No Spoilers discussion thread in the other wrestling section to where the topic is of course the main aspect. Stop by there if you want to chat about Puro often. (Y)


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

^^^ Thanks dude. (Y)


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Fluze said:


> Jumbo vs Misawa (9/1/1990) *****


I'm a huge puro mark. Hard to tell amirite? I love that match but got it at 4 1/2 and their 6/8/90 match at 5*. That match is just perfect. Also that year I have Jumbo/Taue vs Misawa/Kawada on 12/7 as 5* which I've pimped pretty heavily after watching it last week.

Just finished Kobashi vs Sasaki on 7/18/05 and Kobashi/Shiozaki vs Sasaki/Nakajima from 11/5/05. Both get 5* from me. The singles match is a fucking war and the tag match is almost on par with it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Aren't those cram sessions the best? The All Japan main event heavyweight scene - lordy, did most of those come through in the clutch. Board needs a tad bit more Kawada love here and there. He owns life.

KAWADA


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'll have to throw some of my puro reviews in here then : Love me some 90's AJPW and 00-06 NOAH. That's my go to stuff when I want to watch something but don't know what exactly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For Puro it usually seems to be New Japan content older or newer - very specific with Liger in general or HUSTLE thanks to the fantastic youtube channels having a ton of shows uploaded. I can watch that all the time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Kawada's the greatest of all time.



redskins25 said:


> Wowww very interesting, I'm in the group that thinks wm26>25. *Wait let me take a guess rey/taker smackdown b4 fatal 4 way*





Brye said:


> And yeah1993, what do you have about HBK/Taker from '10?!





redskins25 said:


> *I think its the taker/rey match from smackdown*





Gamblor said:


> I find that interesting as well Yeah1993. Only match I can think of is the SD Taker/Punk, though at the same time I know how much you love Rey's work, and if I remember correctly you thought his 2010 was top-notch, so it could be one of the Rey matches.


Yup.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOQ4Ddw_hak I don't think it's a PHENOMENAL match, but really good and I've never really liked Michaels/Taker a whole bunch anyway. I mean I do like it, but, not a whole bunch. Rey/Taker I like a whole bunch.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I would have thought that Taker/Shawn II would be exactly the kind of wrestling you'd love. There is literally nothing to criticize about it. It has fantastic character work, good-great limbwork, unbelievable selling from the deadman, great spots spread out over the 24 minutes and a really emotional ending. The action is also a lot grittier and rougher than in their previous match that it feels like a struggle to hit every big move. If it's the excessive use of finishers that bothers you, then I guess I can understand but based on the stakes, I don't think anybody in any wrestling match ever had more right to keep kicking out as much as these two did that night.

I can't think of a more perfect wrestling match tbh.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

What was that one Undertaker match in Japan back in 97 (I think ). I havent seen it in ages. I don't remember it being all that great but I thought it was awesome at the time to see Taker working in Japan.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

^^ v. Jinsei Shinzaki(Hakushi)?



Hohenheim of Light said:


> I would have thought that Taker/Shawn II would be exactly the kind of wrestling you'd love. There is literally nothing to criticize about it. It has fantastic character work, good-great limbwork, unbelievable selling from the deadman, great spots spread out over the 24 minutes and a really emotional ending. The action is also a lot grittier and rougher than in their previous match that it feels like a struggle to hit every big move. If it's the excessive use of finishers that bothers you, then I guess I can understand but based on the stakes, I don't think anybody in any wrestling match ever had more right to keep kicking out as much as these two did that night.
> 
> I can't think of a more perfect wrestling match tbh.


I'm honestly not going to come out and say there is anything to criticize about it. But at the same time I don't think there's anything about the match to be all *that* excited about either. 

IDK where the fantastic character work is. I thought Michaels was kind of crummy at the ending with with tights-grabbing and all that, but other than that I can't even think of anything in the match that would really count as character work. I didn't find the ending too emotional even when I first watched it in 2010 when these two were my favourite wrestlers of all time. I mean I'd say it WAS an emotional ending, but but not executed in any special way or anything. Still, I won't criticize it (other than Michaels being kind of crummy).

I didn't think the limb work was anything special. It was OK, but I remember saying (whenever sometime) you could turn on SmackDown and have a chance to see better limb work and I stand by that. I think a match like Del Rio v. Swagger on SD this year had much limb work than it. I thought Taker's was really good, yeah (and it pretty much carried the leg work), but it's not going to stand out as an all time sell job of a limb. I don't see his limb selling here anywhere near as good as Arn Anderson's in the 92 Dustin Rhodes match, for example. Still, not something I'll criticize. 

I definitely don't think they overdid finishers. Maybe I'm not remembering right but I didn't mention it in my write-up (and Lord knows I would have ), and I tend to remember stuff I really hate like finisher-overdo...ing. I didn't see that stuff as grittier and more hard-fought for, though. Still, that =/= not good, and, again, it isn't something to criticize.


Couple o' SNIPPETS from what I wrote about the match earlier this year - 



> this is the third I've watch this (and the second in the span of about 9 days), and I've probably "got it" more now than on either previous watch. But I still don't think this is great. This match has an extremely good reputation, and is called the best match ever by some people. So when someone doesn't think it's great, it kind of looks like they don't like it. I do like it, and it's a good match, but I don't see much more than that.





> SO.......yeah. This is a good match, I've always thought it was a good match, but it has an "All Time Classic" following that I don't even come close to agreeing with. I don't think XXV is a classic either, but that one I'd actually say is great; this on is not a great match. There isn't anything specifically wrong with it, but it doesn't do "HOLY SHIT THIS IS MOTHERFUCKING AWWWWWESOME!!!!!!" for me. I don't think I'll ever see it.


sums it up pretty well. Honestly nothing about the match truly, truly, TRULY bothers me. There are things I dislike, eg Michaels' hammy-ness and the weird-ass last ride counter thingy, but they're pretty minuscule in what I ultimately think is a good match. Though at the same time nothing about the match really *sticks out* to me. I thought the moonsault on the leg - whether accidental or not - was a pretty great spot, and Taker's selling was really good. Other than that it kind of felt like a 'just another good match'. Might sound like some form of blasphemy, but I've thought that every time, and I've actually TRIED to love more things about it. There are a crap ton of good matches I've seen that I don't think have much about them terribly stand-out, and that I don't think are great, while I also don't think there is anything particularly wrong with them. It just happens none of those the GOAT-hype surrounding it that Michaels/Taker does, so it probably looks like I have a ton of negative things to say about it; I really don't.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> What was that one Undertaker match in Japan back in 97 (I think ). I havent seen it in ages. I don't remember it being all that great but I thought it was awesome at the time to see Taker working in Japan.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Thats it guys. Much better than what I remembered.

What was the meaning of Taker doing this match? Was it a cross promotion kind of thing or was he just doing it for the hell of it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of work in Japan, I think that a majority of critics are willing to write Brock's NJPW experience off a a failure in the quality department due to most individuals only seeing the Angle match (which is hands down his worst match over there) and not necessarily the rest of Brock's work such as his performance against Akebono & his beast of a monster heel performance against nakamura. I might have screwed up that name because I'm on my iPhone in a hospital parking lot, but what the fuck ever. 

I still say let Brock be Taker's last match at a Wrestlemania. Have Brock throw taker around with the ground and pound, and let brock just rip Taker's heart out until Taker must dig down deep and fight from the bottom all the way to the top. Have Taker use his last bit of energy slaying the beast instead of a scenario where he'd be the kayfabe favorite against a guy like Cena. I think in a face vs face main event scenario that Cena-Taker would turn into a finisher fest and nothing else to be honest.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 has the most unique taste I've ever seen. I can never predict his opinion on a match.



Fluze said:


> A prime Benoit or a prime Bryan?


Prime Benoit is the greatest thing this world has ever seen so that's my answer. Bryan is awesome, though. Love how he uses so much of Benoit's moveset as that keeps his image in my mind every time I see those moves performed. Hope he uses the German more frequently after this Monday.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I knew that was your pick Yeah1993 :lol I remember us raving about it before. Although I agree to disagree and I believe 26 is better than 25 and ***** that rey/taker smackdwon match is nothing to sneeze at. For those who haven't seen it it is WAY better than their rumble match, ****1/4 I love that match. It was on the short side but 5-10 minutes more and it could have been a classic


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah1993 has the most unique taste I've ever seen. I can never predict his opinion on a match.


I can 

Me & him have discussed Taker/HBK II to death tbh. I do see it as arguably the best representation of WWE Main Event Style Wrestling, but I can understand were some elements might stick out to him and stop him from truly loving the match. The WWE Main Event Style is obviously predicated on the drama, the emotion and the overall spectacle and pulsating atmosphere and in some ways its hard to keep a match grounded in investing work. This is probably the main obstacle I have with HHH matches these days. He plays to the spectacle and the drama/emotion that a WWE Main Event desires, but I never find his actual work or the story they're telling to be as interesting as a more basic story like Eddie/Rey from 6/23/05 for example.

I love the callbacks in Taker/HBK II, with HBK using the inverted figure four that he hadn't used since the Flair match (a nice foreshadowing of the finish and role reversal with HBK now playing Flair and Taker being the one ending his career) and the Hells Gate counter which Angle used to pick up a pin on Taker at NWO '06. The closest thing to a botch in the match (moonsault onto leg) enhances the limbwork and I'll forever love HBK outsmarting Taker by feigning a SCM to see if the leg is legitimately damaged since Michaels tried to feign an injury in the '25 match. 

But tbh, its nice to disagree for once and share a differing view to Yeah1993. I mean he adores Austin/Rock @ Mania '17 and for the life of me bar Austin's sensational character performance I just can't get into the body of the match. I see people write compelling thoughts and insight, but the Attitude Era brawling on the floor and in the ring just leaves me dry, and despite Austin's attention to detail and intricate touches to the match, I can never think of it as anything more than 'good'.


Moving on, EVERYONE needs to watch Festus/Koslov from Smackdown 8/15/08. Two heavyweights beating the piss out of each other and their titties slapping all over the place. Its wrestling art.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So that makes two of us for Austin/Rock II.  And on the topic of unique taste, I'd consider your (WC) taste pretty unique and hard to predict as well.

And speaking of HBK/Taker WM26, I need to give this a rewatch asap. Last I watched it was two years ago and the only thing I remember now are the Tombstone on the outside and HBK doing the throat slash taunt.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think people who read my thoughts in here can generally predict my basic tastes, but yeah if you're unfamiliar I'm likely to induce a prolapse if someone was to hear my thoughts on some of the most highly praised matches and matches I'd say I immensely prefer.

Yeah1993 has perfectly explained his position on the match in the past. Do I hold out hope he'll have a Austin/Angle Summerslam '01 esque turn on the match one day? Of course. But I get why he thinks differently and at the end of the day I'll always welcome a differing viewpoint.

I mean, a guy I deeply respect and share similar thoughts with absolutely cannot get into Lucha, whether its 80s Lucha or the modern day product. I personally adore some of the best Lucha matches but I always welcome his input even if its negative since he'll never say 'well I don't like Lucha so fuck you and your little Mexicans' etc etc. I can tell he gives it a chance and it just doesn't click with him, which is like me and some heavily pimped matches, workers and styles.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> So that makes two of us for Austin/Rock II.  And on the topic of unique taste, I'd consider your (WC) taste pretty unique and hard to predict as well.
> 
> And speaking of HBK/Taker WM26, I need to give this a rewatch asap. Last I watched it was two years ago and the only thing I remember now are the Tombstone on the outside and HBK doing the throat slash taunt.


and the SUPREME final jumping tombstone:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

@ Woolcock

Inverted Figure 4 is at WM 25. Actual Figure 4 at 26.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh damn is it? I never recalled him using it after the Flair match and just recall him using a figure four when targeting the leg @ 26. Still love the usage of that in contrast with HBK eventually mirroring Flair @ 24 in only prolonging the inevitable result. Not sure why anyone would have an issue with the finisher kick outs. Its part and parcel of WWE Main Event Wrestling, its more a case of evaluating how well they pace and time each kickout to increase the drama as opposed to the actual number of kickouts.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I agree. Something I found in the 25 match is that following the DIVE spot, it's practically finisher after finisher after finisher. It doesn't really take anything away from the match b/c let's face it, by that point both guys should WANT to finish it as quickly as possible.

Just felt they could've padded between the spots a bit better.

Now, Rock/Cena II on the other hand... fpalm


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah that's why I was always irritated by the 'finisher fest' comments whenever Punk/Cena wrestle. As long as finishers are timed well and paced suitably as well as sold as being damaging, there's nothing wrong with numerous kickouts. All Japan mastered the art of using high impact offence to increase the tension in their title matches, especially in the sequences where one wrestler would seize the initiative and rattle off maybe three or four big moves in succession and tease each nearfall being the finish. There are a couple of instances where Cena/Punk time a finisher poorly, but for the most part they balance the nearfalls with the context of the match as well as any two main event workers have done for many years.

Rock/Cena II was the exact definition however of where a match falls apart with no discernable structure and poorly placed nearfalls. Didn't help they transitioned from the middle into the finishing stretch with the most minimal of effort and it felt like they had 2 counters repeated endlessly into the others' finisher. It was actually embarassing watching live because it was just one countering the other with the same transition, lieing around on the mat and then repeating the process. Hard to believe the same company that booked Hogan/Rock to perfection could pitifully fail twice in succession in booking Rock/Cena to go that long.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Did you see Tanahashi/Okada 4/7? Would be interested reading your thoughts on that.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Austin/HHH 3Stages of hell match- ****3/4, I don't care about what everyone thinks this is an awesome match, the best Austin match after the one from WM13 and his WM classics with The Rock. Trips and SCSA just punched the hell out of each other for 40 minutes, how can that not be an.epic match?

HHH/HBK 3 Stages of Hell Match ***1/2, kinda boring in some parts and a bit sloppy, not as awesome as HHH/Austin

HHH/Orton 3 Stages of Hell Match **3/4 bad compared to the other too


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Wouldn't go above 2 stars for any of 'em.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Did you see Tanahashi/Okada 4/7? Would be interested reading your thoughts on that.


Yeah I've seen all the big New Japan matches (Okada/Tanhashi x4, Tanahashi/Suzuki etc). Tbh there was a lot I liked in the match but I'm definitely lower on the New Japan style compared to the biggest advocates. I think my main issue is that whilst I can appreciate the deliberate slow burn structure they have where everything builds to a crescendo with the intent to make the finishing stretch the magnus opus of the match, I just find the early pacing to be low key and I struggle to identify and remain invested in the work. I absolutely see the reason for the deliberate pacing, but I'm not as invested in the current New Japan guys the way I am with Kawada, Misawa, Tenryu, Taue & Hashimoto and therefore I struggle to find things I consistently enjoy.

The finishing stretches are often well paced with convincing nearfalls, though some counters do look too elaborate and clearly planned for my tastes, but I do like how the counters are designed to make the minute one wrestler hits their finisher on the other a significant achivement. I guess there are many aspects I do like about their big matches, but I wouldn't consider any a MOTYC over something like Lesnar/Cena or Santo/Villano IV vs El Hijo Solitario/Angel Blanco Jr. I mean, Finlay/Tajiri 2/19 gripped me immensely throughout their match and I found the structure and work to be far more gripping and investing and subsequently had it as my Japan MOTYC for last year.

I think when it comes to New Japan, I've been spoilt with Hashimoto, Hase & Tenryu and their explosive and violent matches which has left the more slower and deliberate pacing in the current style lacking for me. I think maybe with Japan I look for something different to the US style, which is where Hashimoto's presence and thunderous violent offence compells me in ways that distinguish it from the best of Flair, Funk & Lawler.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Speaking of Lesnar/Cena from last year, I watched it recently and it didn't hold up at all. I did like how authentic the match came off, as well as seeing John Cena take a beating like never before... but the pacing of the match is indolent and sluggish. Brock punches Cena around, with the early shots being very stiff, but that's all it really is. He punches Cena around like a punching bag and then Cena hits the Attitude Adjustment onto the steps for the win. The only thing that kind of stood out was the crazy landing when Brock jumped from the steel steps in the ring over the top rope. I don't know, I like the match... but am starting to find it overrated.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I hate the NJPW main event structure too, but I actually thought they did well to hold up pace in that match and we get a good middle portion instead of a long finishing stretch. Okada's selling was BOSS too.

As for Lesnar/Cena, I rewatched it recently too. Definitely five stars and one of the best things I've ever seen in a wrestling ring.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> I hate the NJPW main event structure too, but I actually thought they did well to hold up pace in that match and we get a good middle portion instead of a long finishing stretch. Okada's selling was BOSS too.
> 
> As for Lesnar/Cena, I rewatched it recently too. Definitely five stars and one of the best things I've ever seen in a wrestling ring.


I appreciate the intent in the structure, since they're almost working a quasi US style match with the work progressively increasing and culminating in the finishing stretch. I just find people like Hashimoto excel at distinguishing the New Japan style from its American counterpart yet still delivering magnificent matches and spectacles. His presence and aura makes every title match feel humongous and his facial expressions, explosive offence, amazing selling for a man of that build in drawing sympathy just make for gripping main events whether its 15 minutes or 30 minutes. I enjoy slow build Puro matches, but I really think only the select few like Kawada, Misawa and Hashimoto can really utilise it to its fullest extent, whereas with Tanahashi & co there are numerous instances of things I enjoy but just too spaced out with easily removable work for me to be fully engrossed in the contest.

I'll likely rewatch it closer to the end of the year when it comes to working up a definitive 'best of 2013' though. I did enjoy the bulk of Okada's selling and how it impacted on his offence and potential comebacks. I did prefer the Suzuki '12 match but I think a lot has to do with Suzuki's genuine underdog performance being more impressive to me and keeping a consistent theme in the match that I preferred to the Okada/Tanahashi dynamic.

As for Lesnar/Cena, it would likely be at minimum a top 15 match in company history. Would have to watch the absolute best of WWF/E in order to evaluate its current standing, but I really think it would place high. Just adore the babyface/heel dynamic, Cena's emphatic underdog performance and Lesnar's overlooked selling of Cena's brief comeback attempts which were stellar. The facial expressions after the Backlund powerlift spot and the Chain shot were just magnificent.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brock/Cena right now is in my top 50. Don't think I would ever put it in a top 15, and certainly can't call it the best match in the company's history. Maybe top 25 though is a possibility if I re-watch it on a good day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Big Z said:


> I hope they keep Kofi the fuck away from anyone in the Shield after this week. They don't need him dragging down their awesomeness.


MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED MY BROTHERS! HAIL TO THE GREAT WRESTLING GOD IN THE SKY!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The best thing in that post is the writer is named 'Michael Bluth'. What a cowinkydink.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lesnar nearly paralyzing himself after that insane dive only to pop back up and hop up and down while grinning is probably the best thing I've ever witnessed.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Lesnar nearly paralyzing himself after that insane dive only to pop back up and hop up and down while grinning is probably the best thing I've ever witnessed.


Nope. That would be Lesnar taking his gloves off in the SS match. Makes me :mark: every time. Awesome moment. 

Seems like Lesnar/Cena is becoming one of those topics that gets discussed in this thread on a regular basis now lol. For me and I've said it many times, it's a perfect match bar the finish. The fact that they act like Cena lost the match is pretty annoying but that doesn't take away from how perfect everything was before that point. Such a unique offering. It didn't feel like a wrestling match and that's what makes it so special for me and many others.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Licking Cena's blood off the gloves and wiping it on his chest would go with the dive spot and taking off the gloves to round out my top 3 LEGIT :mark: moments.

To be honest I have a hard time watching that match knowing that Cena wins. It's like "OMG this match is so fucking awesome, then oh... Cena won. Ok." The post-match promo + no-selling the beatdown the following night makes it even worse.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just rewatched the glove spot. That was fucking badass. I forgot it was right after HHH sent him soaring over the ropes for like the third time and saying "This is WWE not UFC!" So Brock takes off the fucking gloves and teaches HHH a lesson by tackling him and punching him in the back of the head :lmao BROCK

Is it weird if I had a dream last night that I was hanging with HHH and I legit asked him how it felt receiving a clothesline from BROCK and HHH said "it fucking hurt like hell?" :lmao Maybe that's why I'm joining in on the Lesnar talk.

edit FUCK thought someone would've posted after my last one.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar's top 3 moments would be the three TLK mentioned, probably in that order (Sick Dive going into just standing up and celebrating he didn't kill himsef > Lesnar licking the blood on his hands/gloves > Lesnar taking off the gloves). All epic moments.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm going to watch some BROCK matches in a couple minutes. Just waiting for people to get out of the living room so I have the blu-ray player. I'm thinking Brock/Rock SS and.....something else. Don't know yet. I haven't watched much wrestling this past while so I'm in a mood to just have a binge tonight. 

Btw, this is a GOAT BORK moment too. 










:lmao His reaction to the dry ice during HHH's entrance at Mania. DAT FACE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

All reasons why Brock IS A SPECIAL FUCKING ATTRACTION (bye Dwayne).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ Starbuck - Now that the HHH/BROCK trilogy is over, I kinda want to watch the matches in succession and see if the complete story enhances my enjoyment of any of the individual matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I'm going to watch some BROCK matches in a couple minutes. Just waiting for people to get out of the living room so I have the blu-ray player. I'm thinking Brock/Rock SS and.....something else. Don't know yet. I haven't watched much wrestling this past while so I'm in a mood to just have a binge tonight.


My recommendations (without knowing what you have available):

-vs. Taker NM 02 if you're in the middle for a brutal blood bath
-vs. Gowen if you want something in a similar vein of Brock/Cena
-vs. Angle Ironman if you wanna watch a long great wrestling match with some great storytelling and psychology
-vs. Big Show SVS 02 if you wanna watch a quick, great match
-vs. Goldberg WM20 if you wanna see a crowd rip two guys apart


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Was just going to chuck his latest set it and start picking and choosing, preferably some stuff that I haven't seen in a good lot of years now. Out of those you listed that would cover the Angle and Show matches. Watched the others not that long ago....I think. 

Same TLK. I can get the SS match from my friend and I have the ER match still recorded on TV but I don't have Mania. I think I'll wait until I get Mania and then watch them all in a row but God knows when that will be. I'm not paying full price for that thing.

I hope that we get Brock/Cena II down the road but the downside is, they'll never be able to top the first one imo. It's just that good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Apart from Brock-greatness at Mania, i know i will struggle to watch that one again in a hurry tbh. Summerslam i can easily watch again, ER i still havnt fucking watched yet (angry face), hoping to this week.

EDIT - And the stretcher math vs Big show for some FUUUUUUNNNNN.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what makes you think its over TLK hhh got to get that win back :HHH2 Ladder time


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar/HHH is of course happening again. It ain't over until DA GAME says it's over:

Match 4 will be at NOC for the WWE Championship (which Brock wins at Summerslam for Cena) will be a sledgehammer on a pole match
Match 5 will be at HIAC inside HIAC, which Brock will win the title back in
Match 6 will be them picking teams for a 5 on 5 match, which HHH will win (non-title)
Match 7 will be in a TLC match, which Brock will win in and retain
Match 8 will be at the Rumble in an ironman match which HHH will win
Match 9... they'll be part of the EC and it'll come down to them which HHH will win
Match 10 will be at Mania 30 in a buried alive match, where HHH will proceed to destroy Lesnar, get a third decisive win AND literally bury him (alive).

So :HHH2 wins

Oh, and then Brock comes back at WM31 after somehow surviving the buried alive match, says HHH is the better man and wants to have a hug it out match with him, which HHH agrees to, and HHH gives a better hug and therefore wins that one as well. 

All of them will stay true to the series of matches and be *** or lower btw. Cept the hug it out. That will be ***** no doubt.


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

I actually really enjoyed their match at WM29. I tried to block out the fact that the crowd was dead and not let that ruin my viewing experience.

I thought both guys worked really hard and put it all out there in that match. Was pretty brutal and physical.. also loved the psychology at the end of the match with the Kimura lock. I think it was a pretty fun No Holds Barred match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> what makes you think its over TLK hhh got to get that win back :HHH2 Ladder time


Over between Lesnar/Cena? I hope they get a second match. I'd be all for it. Unless, of course, Cena wins again in which case you can consider me on suicide watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think cena/lesnar is to good of a option to pass up, cena would not gain anything from winning again


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

How bout this guys? Cena/Brock II @ summerslam. Brock wins.

Then they finally have the rubber match in HIAC at the ppv. Would definitely help that Shitty ppv!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

idk I dont want them to overdo it, they already stuck gold at extreme rules and only need to have brock get his win back. I doubt it will be punk/cena that every time they meet greatness happens


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> idk I dont want them to overdo it, they already stuck gold at extreme rules and only need to have brock get his win back. I doubt it will be punk/cena that every time they meet greatness happens




If Brock ever gets his win back cena will definitely get his rematch. You should know this


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Cena/Mysterio - *****

Mysterio locking in the STF is :mark: :mark: :mark: all the way. Came down a bit from the last watch but it's still fantastic. Awesome pace and the middle section of the match never drags imo. I'm so glad this happened when it did since it looks like Rey is gone. Give them another 10 mins, stick it on PPV and this is more than capable of becoming a truest of the true babyface vs. babyface classic. Definitely in the better half of 2011 matches if you ask me.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm having trouble coming up with ****+ Triple H matches that aren't gimmick or multi-man/tag matches. Best I can think of is v Jeff Hardy from No Mercy 2008 and I know people rate the Iron Man with Benoit highly but I've never seen it. Ideas?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> I'm having trouble coming up with ****+ Triple H matches that aren't gimmick or multi-man/tag matches. Best I can think of is v Jeff Hardy from No Mercy 2008 and I know people rate the Iron Man with Benoit highly but I've never seen it. Ideas?


Ill ask Bret Hart for ya.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

zep81 said:


> Ill ask Bret Hart for ya.


huh?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I think cena/lesnar is to good of a option to pass up, cena would not gain anything from winning again


What did Cena gain from winning the first time, though? Never say never when it comes to Cena.



Forever Unchained said:


> I'm having trouble coming up with ****+ Triple H matches that aren't gimmick or multi-man/tag matches. Best I can think of is v Jeff Hardy from No Mercy 2008 and I know people rate the Iron Man with Benoit highly but I've never seen it. Ideas?


You're not alone. I love Triple H as much as anyone on here but it's not uncommon knowledge that he clearly thrives in gimmick matches/brawls. He's had some solid singles matches against Flair on Raw, HBK on Raw, Benoit in 2004 (maybe later, too, idr), Hardy series in 2008. I'm sure I'm missing some. vs Show is another. Maybe not all ****+ but some probably are. Haven't seen them in ages.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> huh?


Bret isn't the biggest fan of alot of Trips' matches, lets say that


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have trouble naming alot of ****1/4+ matches hhh have had post 2000 outside of the obvious ones


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Forever Unchained said:


> I'm having trouble coming up with ****+ Triple H matches that aren't gimmick or multi-man/tag matches. Best I can think of is v Jeff Hardy from No Mercy 2008 and I know people rate the Iron Man with Benoit highly but I've never seen it. Ideas?





The Lady Killer said:


> You're not alone. I love Triple H as much as anyone on here but it's not uncommon knowledge that he clearly thrives in gimmick matches/brawls. He's had some solid singles matches against Flair on Raw, HBK on Raw, Benoit in 2004 (maybe later, too, idr), Hardy series in 2008. I'm sure I'm missing some. vs Show is another. Maybe not all ****+ but some probably are. Haven't seen them in ages.


Yeah there's no denying that HHH is the king of gimmick matches. All the ones TLK mentioned above are solid, plus I've mentioned many times that I'm a huge fan of his match vs Benoit at No Mercy 2000, also the two Raw matches they had in 2005 are great. I can think of a few more I like but they probably aren't ******+


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

And we go from the weekly Brock/Cena discussion to the weekly HHH discussion. I guess Orton is next .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok, let's mix it up a bit. Here's an interesting one, best Rhyno matches? (Excluding vs Raven at Backlash 2001)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH has had so many great matches. I find it hard to find many _classics_ that are non-gimmick. Best one of them is easily WM20 triple threat, though.

Orton is next? Let's just make it _not_ about his decline and just his best work.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Triple H/HBK on Raw at the end of 2003? Need to rewatch it, but it gets a ton of talk around here. 

I may not like Orton much right now, but I love his 2004-2005 work (sans his silly face fun in late 2004). Need to check out his match with HHH at the 2005 Rumble. I also love his 2009 heel run, but unfortunately his matches were less than stellar.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2009 Orton is one of my favourite characters of all time, especially the RTWM and right up until he won the title at Backlash. He was much better on the chase than when he actually won it. I actually didn't mind the Cena/Orton program either, certainly didn't hate it like a lot of others around these parts did. Their match at BP 09 is a personal favourite of mine also. But it is a shame that he didn't have the ring work to back up his awesome character work. That's why his 09 usually gets overlooked imo. When you talk about wrestlers having GOAT years or great years or classic years or whatever you want to call them, it's mostly overall where the character/storylines etc come together with the ring work/matches. For me it is anyway. That's what hurts Orton. He didn't really produce the goods in the ring to back up his compelling character progression on the whole. Then by 2010 the whole Viper thing had become manufactured and overdone. It lost its appeal and he's been floundering ever since.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH hasnt had many classics outside of gimmick ones. Orton, I will pretend he hasnt wrestled since 2011 and look fondly on his matches with Christan and Henry

Saw some undertaker tombstone dvd
IYH Revenge of Taker mankind ***3/4
SS97 bret ****1/4

Gonna watch some of the New Bret Dun collection tonight ? anybody who's seen it give a guy some recs on what matches to see and dont


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Best HHH non gimmick match? 

Id like to throw in HHH/Cena from NOC. Very underrated and definitely better then they're WM match IMO


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

I forgot how badass 2002/03 ish Smackdown was. Always a good thing finding those full Smackdown episodes on Youtube. Especially in the age of WWE taking things down.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Depends on what your definition of a classic match is at the end of the day. For some it will be a low threshold. For others it will be an almost impossible threshold. Then you have to consider what actually makes the match a _classic _match. What do you mean by terming it that? Do you mean the epitome of technical wrestling or do you mean the epitome of storytelling? Or both. Do you consider 'epic' matches that rely on emotion and hype and star power etc with historical significance or do you consider matches that don't have any of that but encompass everything about wrestling that you love personally? Or both. It really just depends on personal tastes and how loose/strict you are when it comes to terminology. 

Hey there's a new topic. Using examples, what constitutes a classic wrestling match in your eyes? Discuss. (100 points) 8*D


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I'm quite fond of Revenge of Taker vs Mankind. Easy **** from me with Foley bumping like a madman to get the match over. I felt thdy threw the match together at the last minute as Foley had done nothing of significance up until WrestleMania 13 and the whole booking up until then was screwed up because of Shawn. Anyways, that head first table bump was the sick!

Watch the Bret v Taker v Austin v Vader four way if you haven't seen. Another favourite of mine and probably a top 5 of 1997 match. Forgotten classic imo. ****1/4

The Jean Pierre Laffitte match is very good also. Haven't seen in years though, I might watch it myself.


Edit: oh, the Final Four match isn't on the Dungeon set. Thought it was. It should be though maybe Bret's not too hot on it considering he only lifted the title to pass it on to Sid...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> I'm quite fond of Revenge of Taker vs Mankind. Easy **** from me with Foley bumping like a madman to get the match over. I felt thdy threw the match together at the last minute as Foley had done nothing of significance up until WrestleMania 13 and the whole booking up until then was screwed up because of Shawn. Anyways, that head first table bump was the sick!
> 
> Watch the Bret v Taker v Austin v Vader four way if you haven't seen. Another favourite of mine and probably a top 5 of 1997 match. Forgotten classic imo. ****1/4
> 
> The Jean Pierre Laffitte match is very good also. Haven't seen in years though, I might watch it myself.


yea I bumped it up to **** as well. Better than their HIAC imo.

I dislike the hhh/cena NOOC 08 bout and consider their 09 raw match MUCH better


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> 2009 Orton is one of my favourite characters of all time, especially the RTWM and right up until he won the title at Backlash. He was much better on the chase than when he actually won it. I actually didn't mind the Cena/Orton program either, certainly didn't hate it like a lot of others around these parts did. Their match at BP 09 is a personal favourite of mine also. But it is a shame that he didn't have the ring work to back up his awesome character work. That's why his 09 usually gets overlooked imo. When you talk about wrestlers having GOAT years or great years or classic years or whatever you want to call them, it's mostly overall where the character/storylines etc come together with the ring work/matches. For me it is anyway. That's what hurts Orton. He didn't really produce the goods in the ring to back up his compelling character progression on the whole. Then by 2010 the whole Viper thing had become manufactured and overdone. It lost its appeal and he's been floundering ever since.


Even his ring work wasn't bad. It was just his character that required him to wrestle a slower, "viper like" style. He has quite a few quality matches from 2009.

I love everything about Orton from 2003 when he joined Evolution up until 2009. Specially up to his 2008 injury before he fully went slow-mode. Then in 2010 and 2011, his ring work remained great (specially 11) but his character and direction was lost. Last year was his worst and this year hasn't been much better so far, but he's still had quite a bit of good stuff out. Just hope he'll turn heel because that's clearly when he'll really start to actually put forth some real effort. The thing that kills me about keeping him face is that they don't do a damn thing with him. He still comes out and wrestles some half-assed match against the same midcard/jobber heels and he beats them before walking to the back. Can't blame him for not caring at all. He's better than this shit.



xdoomsayerx said:


> Best HHH non gimmick match?
> 
> Id like to throw in HHH/Cena from NOC. Very underrated and definitely better then they're WM match IMO


WM20 with Benoit and HBK is the best without a doubt. For singles matches, I really am not sure, probably vs Rock at Backlash 2000. But that one has so much interference, it could've very well been a No DQ.



WrestlingforEverII said:


> I forgot how badass 2002/03 ish Smackdown was. Always a good thing finding those full Smackdown episodes on Youtube. Especially in the age of WWE taking things down.


Are they up again? I remember I watched the entire 2003 thanks to some channel on youtube. It got terminated so I had to download everything from 2004-2007 to watch the rest of my project.



Starbuck said:


> Depends on what your definition of a classic match is at the end of the day. For some it will be a low threshold. For others it will be an almost impossible threshold. Then you have to consider what actually makes the match a _classic _match. What do you mean by terming it that? Do you mean the epitome of technical wrestling or do you mean the epitome of storytelling? Or both. Do you consider 'epic' matches that rely on emotion and hype and star power etc with historical significance or do you consider matches that don't have any of that but encompass everything about wrestling that you love personally? Or both. It really just depends on personal tastes and how loose/strict you are when it comes to terminology.
> 
> Hey there's a new topic. Using examples, what constitutes a classic wrestling match in your eyes? Discuss. (100 points) 8*D


For me, I don't have a specific requirement for a classic. It can be a complete wreck with bodies flying everywhere (TLC matches), it can be mat wrestling perfection, it can be purely crowd centered (Hogan/Rock) and it can be completely about character work/storytelling. I feel like I recognize a good match when I see it without having some "technical" requirements like some pretentious people do. (meaning those who say Cena can't wrestle)


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

@ C2D, I actually meant singles match as well. To me a triple threat is still somewhat a gimmick match. As there's no dq.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Maybe Bret Hart WAS right when he said that he thinks Triple H has never had any truly great matches. Perhaps he was only referring to non-gimmick matches.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Are they up again? I remember I watched the entire 2003 thanks to some channel on youtube. It got terminated so I had to download everything from 2004-2007 to watch the rest of my project.


Yep. This guy has been uploading them, http://www.youtube.com/user/WWEpisodes2003/videos?view=0&flow=grid

though he says in a recent video that he has a strike and is making his new back up channel. Im downloading what I can off of Youtube before its gone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> yea I bumped it up to **** as well. Better than their HIAC imo.
> 
> I dislike the hhh/cena NOOC 08 bout and consider their 09 raw match MUCH better


But their RAW match in October 2009 was the carbon copy of their second (NOC) & third (RAW July '09) matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah1993 has the most unique taste I've ever seen. I can never predict his opinion on a match.






WOOLCOCK said:


> I love the callbacks in Taker/HBK II, with HBK using the inverted figure four that he hadn't used since the Flair match (a nice foreshadowing of the finish and role reversal with HBK now playing Flair and Taker being the one ending his career)


Michaels used the figure four somewhat frequently between Flair's retirement and Michaels/Taker II, methinks. I remember him putting on the most rubbish-looking one ever during one of the DX/Legacy 'brawls'. Could have swore he used one in the 09 Taker match, too. I remember that looking shitty as well and during the 2010 match I was marking out b/c Michaels finally learnt how to put the figure four on properly.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> @ Woolcock
> 
> Inverted Figure 4 is at WM 25. Actual Figure 4 at 26.


Oh, right, yeah, that.  Did he really not use it during the whole Jericho feud?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Michaels used a bunch of submissions (half of which looked horrible) in that title match against Orton when SCM got banned, too, iirc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Z said:


> MY PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED MY BROTHERS! HAIL TO THE GREAT WRESTLING GOD IN THE SKY!


:mark: :hb

:side:



WOOLCOCK said:


> Moving on, EVERYONE needs to watch Festus/Koslov from Smackdown 8/15/08. Two heavyweights beating the piss out of each other and their titties slapping all over the place. Its wrestling art.


Fact.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Michaels used a bunch of submissions (half of which looked horrible) in that title match against Orton when SCM got banned, too, iirc.


That was before the Flair match tbf.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I marked out for the dirty looking crossface vs Orton. Done the same year Benoit passed. Naturally it was a total surprise.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah I remember people flipping out when HBK pulled out the Crossface.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Michaels used a bunch of submissions (half of which looked horrible) in that title match against Orton when SCM got banned, too, iirc.


That ankle lock looked just fine. But the Crossface was real mark out material.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> That was before the Flair match tbf.


FUCK


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> But their RAW match in October 2009 was the carbon copy of their second (NOC) & third (RAW July '09) matches.


length was probaly a factor, It seem to drag a bit


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

* Jumbo vs. Misawa (AJPW) - 9/1/1990 *










Video Link - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrge8p_jumbo-tsuruta-vs-mitsuharu-misawa-ajpw_sport#.UadKWWRsNCk

One of my favorite matches ever. It may have its issues and even lack perfection in all departments, but the storytelling exceeds that level of perfection and pushes the envelope to a standard never seen before. The story is headed by one of the greatest performances in any wrestling match. Hell, I would even say this match is the specific that propelled Jumbo into the ELITE category of in ring working. The bare-bones story is as known as cheese on bread, but here's a rundown for old times sake. Jumbo is the top resident in the establishment of AJPW. Misawa is the new breed and wants to overtake his counterpart (Jumbo) and his position in the company. Misawa worked their 1st match in such a way that is vastly different from what we see of him today, His core offense was the use of agileness and cunning tactics to drop that sneaky win on the grizzly veteran. Now in this match, Misawa diversifies his style of offensive inflict, gone is the light heavyweight, agile freak and in comes a stiff as rocks, nasty MOFO. The elbow frenzy of smashing/dashing make these statements pretty relevant, It's very meaningful that Misawa alters his fighting style to those of a heavyweight, because he will be represented as a worthy one for the title, If he does so. 

Jumbo's retort towards this new heavyweight-like Misawa, is of painful fashion, judging by how well he sold the elbow strikes. This is an absolute necessity to Misawa's character development. Jumbo is in eventful situations, able to win specific back and fourth exchanges, but in majority sense, he gets dominated. Jumbo even sells deeper than physical imagery, A young force attempting to push him off the 1st tier of the food chain, mind fucks his mentally a bit. Observe with depth, The facial expressions really depict this type of "selling". For example, In the late innings of the match, Misawa keeps coming back from what ever Jumbo throws at him, this thus causes a domino effect, in which the current (Jumbo) beings to understand that the future (Misawa) has come. The equilibrium of visually showing the damage and inflicting it, also between the pluses in Misawa's ability while still highlighting his weaknesses, is a thing of magisterial beauty. Now, The ending was a beauty, but of execution beauty, Both wrestlers were non affected in credibility sense and either can be labeled as "ace" material. The nature of disease might have crippled our chances in having a decisive conclusion to this epic series, but we can still look back and nurture off of a phenomenal introduction. 

****** *​
EDIT: Decided to post this here, as well as the puro thread.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

is it me, or has the amount of stupidity and terrible posters reached new heights (or is it lows?) in the WWE section?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is it bad for wwe superstar to win titles :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao the wwe section never out does itself


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good review on the Jumbo vs Misawa match. Its the match that really seemed to let Misawa stick when it came to the heavyweight scene in AJPW. _(as you said in so many words; how dare I be a parrot.)_ Always a good time to go back and see the rise of legends. Even Misawa had to start somewhere. Elbow strikes were used and he didn't look back.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

JOAL.com said:


> is it me, or has the amount of stupidity and terrible posters reached new heights (or is it lows?) in the WWE section?


Yup, which is why I mostly post in here where intellectual wrestling conversations are held. :genius

Most of the threads in the WWE section are garbage threads that aren't worth a thread in it's own merit like threads about who draws and who doesn't along with ratings talk. It is what it is I guess.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

"would you rather have 3 more years of attitude era or undertaker vs cena"

i dont even know where to begin to respond to a thread like this

or that thread where a guy insults people who dare to watch raw because they enjoy shield. apparently by watching something we enjoy, we're hurting the business and idiots

or something


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No reason to talk about the morons in the WWE section here. Go do that in the chatbox or something.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Yep, The WWE section is fucked, even back in my lurking times.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

I'm thinking of reviewing every ppv from 2009, I hear a lot of things about that year and want to see what it's about.

Also since it has some of my favorite matches of all time, top ten of 1994?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Eddie Guerrero (c) vs John Cena for the United States title- Smackdown 8/28/03​*






Eddie Guerrero defends his United States championship in his hometown of El Paso, Texas against John Cena. Cena who is the Dr. of Thuganomics at this point comes out to the ring with a tire in his hands which he stole from Eddie Guerrero's low-rider. Cena cuts a promo talking bragging about stealing Eddie Guerrero's ride. Here comes Eddie who ambushes Cena toward the ring. Eddie takes off his U.S title which is up for grabs in this match and throws Cena onto steel steps. Eddie throws Cena into the ring and continues the beating as the match officially gets started. Eddie Guerrero Irish-whips Cena to the ropes and strikes him with his elbow. Eddie gives Cena a scoop slam and follows it up with giving him a Hilo. Guerrero gets the upperhand on Cena some more until Cena hits Eddie with a Spin-out powerbomb. Cena goes for a cover but Eddie kicks out at 2. A fustrated Cena chokes Eddie Guerrero by the throat and Eddie fights out of it. Cena grabs his belt and is about to hit Eddie with it but the referee takes it away from him. Eddie then hits Cena with a dropkick. Cena takes Eddie down with a clothesline. Cena tries to put Eddie in a headlock submission but Eddie reverses it and gives Cena another dropkick. Cena crawls out of the ring. Eddie goes after Cena but Cena attacks Eddie Guerrero's right leg and throws him out of the ring. Eddie takes down Cena with punches to the face and throws him face-first onto the announce table. Eddie throws Cena back inside the ring. 

Eddie picks the tire up and tries to slide it into the ring but the referee won't let him. As the referee tries to take the tire out of the ring, Eddie grabs a chair and strikes Cena in the back with it. Eddie Guerrero goes on the top rope to give Cena a Frog splash but Cena moves out of the way leaving Eddie to land on the canvas. Cena give Eddie a shoulder block with Eddie flying out of the ring and the match heads to commercial break. Back from commercial break, Cena has Eddie in a submission hold in which Eddie fights out of but Cena takes Eddie down again. Cena hits Eddie Guerrero with a powerbomb and follows with a cover but Eddie Guerrero kicks out at 2. Cena takes Eddie Guerrero down with a suplex but Eddie kicks out at 2. Cena chokes Eddie by the throat again and then puts Eddie in a bear-hug. Eddie is able to break out of the bear-hug and takes Cena down with a flying clothesline. Eddie hits Cena with another clothesline. Down goes Cena again with another clothesline from Eddie Guerrero. Eddie takes Cena down with a backdrop and goes for a cover but Cena kicks out at 2. Eddie Guerrero Irish whips Cena to the ropes but Cena reverses it and hits Eddie with a back bodydrop. Cena tries to hit Eddie with an F-U but Eddie reverses it and transitions it to a Hurricanrana. Eddie goes on the top rope and is finally able to hit Cena with a Frog splash. Eddie goes for a pinfall but that isn't enough to keep Cena down. Eddie Guerrero hits Cena with the 3 Amigos but Cena gives Eddie Guerrero a low-blow. Eddie Guerrero wins via DQ. Cena takes his steel chain and knocks Eddie Guerrero out with it. Cena then throws the referee out of the ring. Cena wraps the steel chain around Eddie's neck and chokes him with it. Cena goes outside the ring, grabs the tire, and slides it into the ring. Cena placing the tire in the middle of the ring, gives Eddie Guerrero an F-U on the tire and leaves the ring. 

While this match was okay, there were some really dull parts in the match but it picked up a lot in the end. Cena looked really dominant in this match with the post-match attack on Eddie Guerrero and this match did it's job by advancing the feud between the two. Okay match but nothing noteworthy. *Rating:* ★★1/2


*Eddie Guerrero vs John Cena in a Parking Lot Brawl for the United States title- Smackdown 9/11/03​*







The set-up for this match is Eddie Guerrero getting sick and tired of Cena disrespecting him and stealing his ride so hes going to teach him a lesson by challenging him into a Parking Lot brawl. Cena is in the parking lot as he waits for Eddie Guerrero to arrive. There are also half of the Smackdown roster there too all ready to see Eddie and Cena fight. Cena cuts a rap on Eddie Guerrero. "His car bounces up and down cause he sits on the stick shift!" That line always makes me chuckle. Anyways, Eddie shows up and the fight is on. Eddie gets out of his car and starts the ass-whipping on Cena. Eddie takes Cena and starts throwing onto cars. Cena fights back at Eddie Guerrero and throws him onto a burgundy car. Cena stomps on Eddie and throws him onto a navy blue car. Eddie who now gets in control of the fight throws Cena onto the burgundy car. Eddie gets on top of the burgundy car and tries to give Cena a suplex on top of the burgundy car but Cena reverses it and gives Eddie a suplex on the car instead. Cena goes inside a truck and takes out a lawn mower. Cena starts up the lawn mower and tries to run Eddie over with it but Eddie moves out of the way and kicks Cena in the stomach, throwing him onto a car. Eddie throws punches at Cena but Cena pushes Eddie Guerrero onto a car. Cena goes to grab a shovel to hit Eddie with but Eddie ducks it and goes back to beating the hell out of Cena.

Cena throws Eddie Guerrero's back onto a car and runs toward him but Eddie gives Cena a Flapjack onto a blue car. Eddie now with the shovel in his hand tries to hit Cena with it but Cena gets out of the way and strikes Eddie in his back. Cena takes Eddie Guerrero and throws him head-first onto a car. Eddie hits Cena with a car door, grabs the car seat-belt, and chokes Cena with it. Eddie opens up the car trunk and goes after Cena but Cena kicks Eddie in the leg and throws him into the car trunk. Cena closes the car trunk but Eddie kicks out of the trunk, knocking Cena down. Cena throws Eddie onto a car with Eddie breaking the car windshield. Cena goes for a cover but Eddie kicks out. Cena opens the car door and hits the car door on Eddie's left shoulder. Cena goes for another pin but Eddie kicks out at 2. Cena takes the car door and tries to slam in on Eddie's left shoulder by kicking it but Eddie gets out of harm's way. 

Eddie kicks Cena in the stomach and throws Cena through the car door window. Cena takes Eddie and throws him head-first through a car door window as well. Cena goes for a pinfall but Eddie Guerrero kicks out at 2 again. Eddie grabs Cena by his jersey and throws him onto a car. Cena gets inside a car to drive away but Eddie gets inside the car along with him and continues the beating on Cena. Eddie rips off the car cigarette lighter and burns Cena with it with Cena running out of the car. Eddie goes after Cena and throws him onto a red car. Eddie runs toward Cena but Cena gives Eddie a back bodydrop on top of a blue car. Cena pins Eddie but that doesn't put Eddie away for the pinfall. Cena throws up the Word Life sign and grabs Eddie to give him an F-U ontop of the red car but Eddie reverses it and gives Cena an armdrag on top of the red car. As Eddie jumps on top of a white truck which is right next to the red truck that Cena is placed on, Chavo from out of nowhere hits Cena over the head over a metal object and Eddie hits Cena with a Frog splash. Eddie Guerrero gets the 123 and successfully retains his U.S title.

Yup, I love this match. One of my favorite TV matches on Smackdown back in 2003. It was a pretty fun brawl and I enjoyed it a lot. It put a great ender to the Cena/Eddie feud with Cena getting his comeuppance. Chavo's interference in the match was great and unexpected. Really fun match that shouldn't be taken seriously. *Rating* ★★★3/4


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ Nice read. Extra points for the Cena facials :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Arm-Bar1004 said:


> I'm thinking of reviewing every ppv from 2009, I hear a lot of things about that year and want to see what it's about.
> 
> Also since it has some of my favorite matches of all time, top ten of 1994?


Backlash '09 is one that a lot tend to enjoy as a whole. Perhaps you may feel the same. Not many of those PPVs were too consistent the entire way through, imo. It was more about the matches on TV for me. Smackdown, ECW, Superstars, & the few RAW gems. All good stuff.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Finally rewatched one of the most critically acclaimed television matches of the past couple years. Haven't seen it since it aired, but enjoyed it when I did watch it.

*Rey Mysterio vs. John Cena (7/25/11)*

I would first like to preface this review by pointing out how most people here believe that Cena is at his very best when he is wrestling big monster heels (Umaga, Lesnar, Big Show). I however, strongly believe that Cena is at his very best when he wrestles against other popular babyfaces due to the fact that it causes him to leave his comfort zone and wrestle a different style from what we are accustomed to seeing from him. Oftentimes, it may even cause Cena to wrestle more like a heel than as a face, which is something he does very well. 

One notable difference between our typical "work-from-under" face Cena from this type of Cena in this match is that he utilizes his power and strength advantage to its fullest extent. We see Cena using bearhugs and lariats and slams here to make up his offense instead of the usual 5MOD. On top of that, this match has something we usually never see in a Cena match, which is Cena wrestling an opponent that uses a cruiserweight high-flying style, which gives us some unique counters and transitions from both men. For instance, Cena does an awesome counter on Mysterio that I have never seen from him consisting of a wheelbarrow bulldog countered into his Protobomb. Also worthy to note that the pacing in this match is off the charts with no wasted motion and no lull period whatsoever.

This match is structured similarly to a typical WWE-style main event match, but we do get some little subtleties in here such as awesome limbwork from both men. Loved how Cena sold his knee buckling when he was about to deliver an AA to Mysterio. This match could have easily turned into a finisher-fest, or even a "counter-finisher-fest" which are common problems with the WWE-style, but these guys found unique ways in avoiding such situations with the way that their big moves did not connect. They also used each other's maneuvers as a way to create some more genuine drama and nearfalls in this high-stakes match. Drama is key when working the WWE-style, and you can tell that these two succeeded in formulating that needed level of drama with the way that the crowd slowly went from not caring about this match that was created via horrible booking to reacting to every single movement from each individual.

Coming into this rewatch, I was worried that this match was going to be another one of Cena's slightly overhyped television matches (vs. Edge Cage Match, vs. Hardy, vs. Big Show). This match was nothing like any of those. We did not see our accustomed Cena television performance here; we saw a different Cena that paid attention to every detail and nuance. I should also give credit to Mysterio here for his great performance (which came after another great match earlier that night), but I am so used to seeing Mysterio performing really well on television that nothing here really surprised me (except for that STF:lol). There is nobody in the world that is better than him at playing up the dichotomy of speed vs. strength. I would have loved this to be the main event of Summerslam that year; give these two another ten minutes and we would have gotten a top 10 match for both men's careers. This probably would have been the best RAW match of most other years, but because 2011 was so stacked, it sits at #3 behind Dr. Phil's two big matches. Nonetheless, this match is another reason why 2011 was one of the best years in WWE history.

******

Also would like to give my respects to Hector Garza. RIP to a great competitor and performer. I wish I had seen his work in Mexico, but I enjoyed what I saw from him in TNA and WCW. Any recs?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a little touch to the Cena vs Mysterio match, but having no commercials during the bout + JR on commentary (call me WWF old fashioned, I enjoy his work behind matches) added a bit more to the quality given by the two on that night. Great stuff all around.

I always add it in as a caveat when I mention Cena vs Mysterio - Mysterio's first match vs Miz in the same night is a good match in its own right. Always worth checking out. Crowd was insanely hot for it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

good ole 2011 people shit on it but Ill have fond memories of it, I remember watching that match live thinking "holy shit" this is good


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not a year I loved by any means. It does have some goodies about it though. It was sprinkled throughout every show instead of one show being consistently stronger for the entire year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It's special to me because it was the year I got back into the product for the first time since 2007. I even remember the first thing I saw it was during the capital punishment build and rtruth was destroying wwe shop gear


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I absolutely adore the WWE in 2011 minus the first half of it. The Summer of Punk II/feud with Cena, R-Truth's heel run, Orton vs Christian, Mark Henry's World Heavyweight title reign, Daniel Bryan's Money in the Bank win, etc. There were also pretty fucking great matches that year. Take away the first half of 2011 and it's pretty much my favorite year for the WWE besides 2000.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd much rather watch 2010 over it. I was into nearly everything week in and week out that year.

2011 was the year for Punker & Henry. The rest was fairly sporadic for my entertainment.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Goodness. This is probably old news to you guys but man.

Was watching a Smackdown from Early FEB 2003 and a promo of Benoit & Angle came on. They were backstage and Benoit was talking about how his loss at the Rumble affected him and how he let his wife and family down. Angle gets in his face and talks about how his medals and title is his wife and kids. It ends with Benoit saying he looks forward to the match later on and one day taking his family away from him. :lmao fucking creepy looking at it now considering what we know these days.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just watched Barrett/Sheamus from Main Event this week. ***3/4. Their best match together and a top 3 singles matches for Barrett (and Sheamus as well, with only his matches against Bryan at ER 2012 and Morrison at TLC 2010 being above it). Awesome showing from both men, pacing the match very well from the get-go, going back and fourth, felt like a big main event match tbh. If they'd been booking Barrett correctly for the past few months, it would've felt like that before the match even began. TBH it makes me hope for an IC Title feud between the feud to get the strap and Barrett some exposure, working with someone who's been handsomely pushed practically since he arrived on the scene and has become a permanent fixture in the WWE. 

But yeah, great match. Even if you're not a fan of Barrett (which I know applies to practically everyone in this thread), it's against Sheamus, which should be enough for most in this thread to at least give a shot.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm a fan of Barrett and Sheamus (although I'm still confused why he doesn't have a last name). I'll give it a watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For whatever reason WWE dropped the "O'Shaunessy" portion from his name once he got put on ECW. Why? I've asked that too.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Well, I'm used to it now. Just sounds a bit weird when I hear someone announcing his name.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't mind it. Same treatment Christian received.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I think 2011 gets crapped on because WWE tried to establish a bunch of new talent and it just didn't work out for the most part sadly, except Ezekiel Jackson, that was the biggest BUST!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thankfully the championship was moved onto Rhodes in no time and everything was square.

WWE had Riley & Ryder as over midcard faces. I know Riley had the occasion flub _(mostly all pre-face turn)_ but I think taking the time to build him up only to abandon him was illogical. It didn't hurt the company or anything, but another over midcard worker isn't a bad thing. Putting him on Superstars to tune his game up and bring him back up to RAW after a bit. That should've been the plan imo.

Ryder. Pfft. Who knows there. If someone is that over and capable enough, why shouldn't he be used? Or kept relevant and not buried. Saw no point in using him for that spell to just shit on him come 2012.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Ryder & Christian depushes i will never understand, but Kofi and ADR get titles and relevancy :lmao

WWE is a funny fucked up world.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Orton-Jericho from Armageddon 2007 sucks, like really sucks. Never thought Jeri's ring rust would be that prevalent, though thank God, He picked "It" back up in the series with Shawn, a couple months later.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Ryder. Pfft. Who knows there. If someone is that over and capable enough, why shouldn't he be used? Or kept relevant and not buried. Saw no point in using him for that spell to just shit on him come 2012.


I think they threw a bone to Ryder's internet show fans. I really really liked that feud he had with Ziggler especially how they carried it over to his show. Him chasing and winning the US Title made it relevant for a little bit. There was actually a mid-card title feud. Then he wins it and he loses it within like a month and he's Cena's lap dog. I don't understand it either but I can only think that they had to do something (albeit grudgingly) and then dumped it as fast as they could.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well Christian doesn't surprise anyone. He was only there b/c Edge had to retire and be there to feed Orton into a series people enjoyed. Once he got his second time in the sun for the month that was the end of things. Getting injured in November was the nail in the coffin of him in the main event picture on Smackdown.

You know the company was shoving Del Rio down fans throats that year. Nothing but fail even if the guy is talented. Fans never bought it. Kofi's championships are all farces per usual. Except for with Bourne, as you know. That was fresh & welcomed with the ultimate stop of relevancy among the tag division once Otunga & Hennig were the champions. Plus, it led to good matches too. I won't be opposed to Kofi having to be seen if he's in the ring with capable opponents and he's used in a situation that can more or less hide his negatives by keeping his work regulated to a more minimal sprint. Of course, that's only IF I have to see it. If it was up to me, he'd never be seen again, haha.

EDIT ~ Ryder was over with the casuals too during that time. If that was WWE's logic, then their booking staff is denser than I originally thought.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm just waiting to see Kofi Kingston has been released! but that's only in a perfect world 

But watch he will be released and then have matches with AR Fox :lmao


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Honest question, Who's chemistry do you prefer, Jericho-Shawn or Rey-Eddie?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You shouldn't speak of such a thing. THE WORLD CAN'T HANDLE CRAP LIKE THAT.

:jaydamn


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am probably the only person in this entire thread that will pick this answer, but I prefer the Jericho-Shawn chemistry more than Rey-Eddie. With Jericho and Shawn, I literally cannot think of a single match of theirs that was under four stars except for the Last Man Standing match, and even that was a good match. On the other hand, while Eddie and Rey had a ton of awesome matches, there were some encounters in their series that did not reach their full potential(WM, Summerslam, cage). On top of that, I felt that both Jericho and Shawn played their respective heel/face role to perfection, whereas with Eddie and Rey, I was encapsulated by Eddie's terrific character work, but I felt that Rey could have done even better. Granted, a lot of that has to do with the awful 2005 storyline those two had, but I would prefer more moments from Shawn in his feud with Jericho than from Rey in his feud with Eddie.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> You shouldn't speak of such a thing. THE WORLD CAN'T HANDLE CRAP LIKE THAT.
> 
> :jaydamn


There would be a total of 2 total wrestling moves used haha.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio for me. Hands down.



Ring General Daniels said:


> There would be a total of 2 total wrestling moves used haha.


and about fifty springboard "moves" chucked in.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

AR Fox the indy Kofi :lmao

I would take Jericho/Shawn because Jericho is my boy and i can never turn him down :$


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fluze said:


> Honest question, Who's chemistry do you prefer, Jericho-Shawn or Rey-Eddie?


Holy shit, that's tough. Two of my all time favorite feuds but I think I'd lean towards Rey/Eddie. Fuck though, those are both incredible storylines.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_"Those are official custody papers, Rey."_

- Eddie Guerrero

WWE knew what they were doing.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

WWE has brain washed you to take the latino side :lmao



> "Those are official custody papers, Rey."
> 
> - Eddie Guerrero
> 
> WWE knew what they were doing.


"Hey Rey, I lied!"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Back then it wasn't about their racial demographic. A simpler time.

Best. Eddie line. Ever.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

"What are you doing? give me a hug!"

:lmao :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It seems like the comical support in the Ladder match at SummerSlam '05 were the best parts. Well, it wasn't their best match for a reason. I still enjoy it.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Best match in WWE or overall?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Smackdown 6/23/05 is my pick for their best. It's on Rey's Biggest Little Man set. Utter brilliance.

Halloween Havoc '97 isn't far off. I think you knew I put that one in high regard after watching it not long ago.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

"Shake my hand, Rey. Your son is watching."

:lmao

GAB


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> Honest question, Who's chemistry do you prefer, Jericho-Shawn or Rey-Eddie?


I reckon there are probably like 6 Rey/Eddie matches better than any Jericho/Michaels. Hell I think only ONE Jericho/Michaels was better than 'just good'.



Hohenheim of Light said:


> "Shake my hand, Rey. Your son is watching."
> 
> :lmao
> 
> GAB


I loved where he gave Rey that 'fckinc'monmanpeoplecanseeus' face. You know, THAT face?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is the Jericho vs Michaels match that you think is past "just good" their GAB '08 one?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yup.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Rumble 2002 is my favorite among all. Mainly for Taker's dastardly heel performance and brutalization of rookie Maven. However, I noticed it didn't drag with lack of eliminations in certain moments and such, The ending was pretty cool for myself even, ala Non-HHH fan. Angle's facial expression, realizing his attempt at elimination, failed. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yup.


(Y)


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I've tried so hard to like the Jericho v Michaels ladder match from No Mercy but all the extra ladders piss me off so much. All the best one on one ladder match utilized no more than two ladders. No need at all for a full home depot supply of the damn things littering the ringside.

Edit: Rumble 2000 was good for the Taker bit and the few minutes of Trips v Austin but overall similar to 1998 it was painfully obvious who would win.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nearly every Rumble has been painfully obvious as who was going to win.

2009 takes the cake. Yet that manages to be one of the better Rumbles out there, imo. Sometimes predictability can be nullified by positives.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

can someone please explain to me what makes a good "control segment" and how you would classify "good pacing" and "transitions" ?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rey/Eddie >>> HBK/Jericho ad infinitum.



HWRP said:


> can someone please explain to me what makes a good "control segment" and how you would classify "good pacing" and "transitions" ?


This will likely vary from person to person, but to me a good control segment strives to make the middle portion of a match central to the theme and story of the match and an overall integral aspect of the match, as opposed to a mere precipitator to the finishing stretch. It can consist of focused limbwork which the babyface sells and ties in to the story of the match, it could consist of an overall great heel performance with the heel utilising numerous mannerisms and traits to draw heat and work the crowd against him and in favour of the face or it could be an overlapping of the two. The key really is that the middle feels important and not a mere gateway to the finishing stretch. It will tie in to the body of the match and advance any story that is prevalent in the opening of the match and develop that story which should culminate in the finishing stretch.

'Pacing' & 'Transitions' just relate to how counters and crucial moments of the match are timed specifically. Pacing can relate to the actual pace at which the match moves along, or more specifically in how and when the heel cuts off the babyface, how and when the babyface begins to mount a more consistent comeback etc. Transitions can relate to counters or simply how the match moves from the babyface in control, to the heel in control and eventually the comeback and back and forth finishing stretch. Good pacing should see each segment of the match be afforded time to gel and develop a theme and good transitions should mean big moments in the match get the appropriate response from the crowd: i.e a big spot/counter/bump.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Great analysis, WOOL. In personal preference, Do you prefer pacing at a slow rate and more of a methodical approach, tediously portraying the story in the ring or fast impactful action with lack of restholds and an influx of GOOD spots? 

Sorry, If that was kinda vague. I'm still getting into learning the art of wrestling aspects and such. Another question though, as per selling goes, Do you prefer them to be a one hit wonder type where it is sold spectacularly on instant hit, or a long term effect where the initial bump isn't anything as such, but the opponent dwindles in agony throughout the match, holding his certain body part in a struggle of pain?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I look mainly for a good structure in a match around which the theme and story can easily be interpreted more than anything. This can be the case in Finlay/Hardy 6/22/07 where Hardy's leg becomes a target which Finlay dissects for the second half of the match or it can be found in Morrison/Bourne 4/14/09 where the overall pace and work is more exhilariting and visually impressive but still has a great character dynamic in Morrison brutalising Bourne and growing frustrated as he refuses to be put away. So long as there's a discernable story or narrative in the body of the match I rely have no preference to the overall pace/style that's wrestled, though matwork and character driven matches are particular favourites of mine.

The selling answer is probably much the same as above. As long as the selling is consistent and is tied into the comeback of the babyface I really have no preference if its an initial bump that injures the limb or whether its a period of focused offence by the heel which eventually weakens the face. I enjoy limb orientated selling found in Christian/Swagger 2/24/09 & Masters/Mcintyre 5/13/11 just as much as I would enjoy emotive selling via facial expressions or two wrestlers progressively selling exhaustion as a match progresses such as Windham/Murdoch from 7/11/87.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i find facial expressions and general mannerisms make or break a match for me

its the little things that stand out and make the match all the more special. you believe the wrestlers have really become the characters and it creates a sort of immersion

without this kind of stuff, i just feel like im watching two robots hitting each other over and over again


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Good 'control segment' comes down to nothing but entertainment, personally. I mean if someone throws a bunch of random bullshit and the dude selling is forced to no sell said bull shit b/c the bullshit was too much, then that's not a good 'control segment'. But if someone dominates the opponent and it isn't boring as ass then I'll like it. I mean Dean Malenko working over Rey Mysterio's arm during his debut in WCW was a fine 'control segment', but he knew Rey had to do high-flying shit and all that, so why work the goddman arm? You're making Rey look no-selly now. 

The transition is from selling to offense (or vice-versa, I suppose, but shit 'n' shit).

As long as transitions are kinda believable and not shitty I dig them. Benoit/Angle Rumble 03 has a transition where Angle randomly stops selling and decides to go on offense....by using an irish whip and a belly to belly. Why an Irish whip? If you were getting beat down would your first instinct be 'I'mma grab this guy's arm and make him run this way'? Dun' think so. Probably the greatest transition of all time was Dutch Mantel getting fed up with being pounded and hurling a chair twenty feet from the outside into the Jerry Lawler's leg in the ring. If you were being beat on and saw a weapon next to you would you throw it haphazardly at the guy beating you up? I say thee yes. 

There's really nothing that SHOULD be be called 'good' in the graps. That sounds stupid and is stupid and it's not what I wanted to say, but if you liked a transition that nobody else did then whatever - you liked that transition. Even if it wasn't 'good'. People like those TLC multi-man matches and stuff, but how many like it because there's a always 'a story' or 'deep this and that bullshit'? They aren't and they don't. If someone comes out as says 'I love the TLC matches b/c they're mindless fucking spotfests' then cool, I won't fault you for liking anything that doesn't have Chuck Taylor in it, probably. I may have gone off point but my point was that if you think something was a good _something_, then don't change y'all shit b/c someone else thought it wasn't a good _something_. You probably weren't anyway. I don't know. I just saw an amazing Necro Butcher match an hour ago and it has left me in an another world so I be typin' oddly odd. Jamaaaaaaaica mon.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

so basically what youre saying yeah1993, is that match quality is subjective and different people enjoy different stuff?

bullshit. its a well known fact kurt angle is a great wrestler. and if you disagree, youre gay


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Damn, If i only had enough capacity to spew such logic. Bravo sir. (WOOLCOCK)

However, When you say character driven matches, Do means ones that show character progression over time like Austin transforming into the character of a bend all rules, psychopath, willing to grasp onto any piece of disabondance (Siding with McMahon) to win. Match in reference, WM17. 

The above might be the type, but it didn't show _heavy_ character transformation till the finishing stretch, excluding nitpick worthy hints throughout the whole encounter. Would this be of one you're referring to?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JOAL.com said:


> so basically what youre saying yeah1993, is that match quality is subjective and different people enjoy different stuff?
> 
> bullshit. its a well known fact kurt angle is a great wrestler. and if you disagree, youre gay


I need to re-watch those times he moonsaulted off of a cage and missed b/c they might hold up better this watch and are probably MOTYCs. Also that time he, the gold medalist, was out-wrestled on the mat by Shane McMahon. Thinking about it Angle might be better than Misawa. It's all RE-EVALUATION, REALLY.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

id like to write a list of people kurt angle wasnt outwrestled by in the ring:

me
woolcock
yeah1993
kingCal

i cant think of any others


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Didn't Puder once outwrestle on an SD broadcast, I watched it on youtube. I still remember that the top comment was something to this extent, "Angle didn't know, Puder wanted to wrestle, Otherwise he would of killed him"

:lmao


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

broken fricking neck


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

'Character driven' matches for me just revolve around one wrestler (maybe even both) just projecting their character into the match and using mannerisms and reactions to enhance the tension and drama. Austin @ Wrestlemania 17 is a great example of an individual character study. His psychotic stares and heightening frustration with every Rock kickout clearly advance the direction of him slowly losing his mind and unravelling from within because he's doubting himself, but even early on he busts out moves like the Million Dollar Dream which he hadn't used since his Ringmaster days. Again, his character and motivations are clearly deliberate and derived from where his character is heading.

Matches like Eddie/Mysterio 6/23 & Punk Morrison x2 (6/26 & 8/14 in '09) are further examples. Eddie/Rey sees Eddie being sportsmanlike and trying to win the match in a fair manner originally to prove to himself and anyone who doesn't believe in him that he's better than Mysterio. Then his mind slowly evaporates as Mysterio continues to frustrate and evade him and he becomes obsessed and progressively violent and his eventual control segment feels like a madman constantly fighting himself and becoming obsessed with beating his foe. 

In Punk/Morrison, Punk was in the midst of a heel turn and in the 6/26 match he's wrestling as a face but throwing in enough touches to signify Morrison is the clearer face (not breaking on counts till after 4, pettily swiping Morrison's leg on the apron, elbowing him square in the head when having a hold on, a clearly forced handshake at the beginning of the match etc) and you can see Punk's character trying to hide his frustration and true emotions from the crowd. The post match GTS after offering his hand to Morrison followed by an immediate facial expression of regret just further accentuated his gradual heel turn whilst trying to play it off as an error prone decision.

I've probably wasted time trying to outline a 'character driven' match, but to me in its most literal sense its just where one character becomes the epicentre of a match and many of the positive attributes of a match can be tied down to what a wrestler is doing and his motivations for doing so. The Punk example is probably the most appropriate, as despite playing it as a face you can see the clear difference and heel motivated touches he throws in to signify he's feigning his nice guy act.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JOAL.com said:


> id like to write a list of people kurt angle wasnt outwrestled by in the ring:
> 
> me
> woolcock
> ...


I meant kayfabe out-wrestled which was ridiculous b/c Shane is a barely-trained silver spoon while Angle badassly (now a word) won the gold with a broken neck, but yeah this would be a fun list to make. I think he outperformed....wow. I'm not kidding I cannot think of a very good Angle match where he was the better guy. And I'm fucking including the awesome match with Marty Jannetty. Marty rules. Rockers fer life. 

Wouldn't surprise me if he had a good match Jericho in 2000 and was the better guy b/c he was actually good then (even if Jericho was better....but he doesn't necessarily have to be better on every single night). I'm genuinely stuck. I wonder if the Edge feud holds up. I actually really liked that series. I'd rank Angle over Edge career v. career and 02 Angle is typically solid so he was probably better in that.

Was Angle better than Cena in he No Mercy 03 match? I'd have to watch that again, too. Jamaica mon. I have no idea if it was anybody's intention to create this topic, or if I have stayed on said topic. I should probably be banned.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

that character driven match between Punk and Morrison was fantastic

i absolutely adored Punk's turn at the time. So organic, i loved how it developed match to match, week to week. Truly a thing of beauty

my best character driven match was Eddie vs Kurt Summerslam. "You say i cant beat you without cheating Kurt.... but what if i can?"

then eddie wins by cheating


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 casually mentioning an awesome Necro Butcher match and not elaborating? Jamaican' me crazy man.

And yeah that Angle/Shane match is probably as good as evidence as any of Angle not being aware of how a match in that fashion should be worked. I also remember an Angle/Storm match that I watched on IMPACT and Tazz brought up Storm wanting to avoid grappling with Angle and focusing on making it a brawl where he stood a better chance. Storm then proceeded to decisively outwrestle Kurt on the mat and make Tazz look like an utter lemon (something he no doubt would have accomplished himself with sufficient time) for his comment.

Aye Redead their 6/26 encounter is stellar. Love the sequence in which Punk petulantly sweeped Morrison's feet from under him on the apron after having his throat crushed by Morrison's knees. Absolutely perfectly timed cheapshot that could legimitately be viewed as instinctive. The way Punk deliberately chose mannerisms where he had a good defence for his actions whilst still clearly operating as a devious heel was just remarkable. 8/14 is also superb and Punk's a full on scumbag heel in that one and out to finally beat Morrison in preparation for the TLC match in 9 days. I got an Eddie/Rey vibe in that match with how incessant Punk was in finally beating Morrison.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Will have to check out that Eddie-Rey match (I know i have it on my comp) and observe these characterizations. (Y). Thanks again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Been meaning to check out the Angle vs Edge '02 series myself. I'm sure they'll hold up. I honestly adore those matches to the point of dubbing them my favorite bit from Edge in his singles career.

Yeah. I can say that and be fairly confident. Undertaker series was pretty good too outside of the known bad match. Same with Orton _(Over The Limit 2010..._:hayden3)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Fluze said:


> Will have to check out that Eddie-Rey match (I know i have it on my comp) and observe these characterizations. (Y). Thanks again.


Its a brilliant match. I'd advise you watch the Judgement Day '05 match beforehand if you haven't just to get some perspective on Eddie's mindset going into the June match. Its not like All Japan in the 90's where you're missing out on great context and backstory by watching the June match on its own, but it is interesting to observe how Eddie grows from Judgement Day, to 6/23 and then finally in the Great American Bash encounter. True descent into villainy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

son of a. Forgot about Edge's matches vs Benoit. Bet those are pretty good too. I know I like their Last Man Standing from Backlash '05.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

I really enjoy what Edge did with Kurt and Taker. Cant remember specifics, especially in regards to the Kurt series, but I remember them being quite great for some reason. really made Edge look like a legitimate future champion

The Taker/Edge hell in a cell was just fantastic character work, but I'll always prefer their wrestlemania match. Made Edge look like he really belonged in that ring with Taker. Edge knew he could never beat Taker in a stand up fight so instead he focused on reversing almost every move in Undertaker's moveset and relying on outside help. nothing too clever, but the simple dynamic really worked, and it got topped off when Edge did indeed have the upper hand and almost won when he hit the 2nd spear.

Until Undertaker broke out the one move that only recently was added to Taker's repertoire. Or as Cole called it "THAT SUBMISSION MANOEUVRE"


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah1993 casually mentioning an awesome Necro Butcher match and not elaborating? Jamaican' me crazy man.





Spoiler: HOLY SHIIIIIIT!!!!!!



The Necro Butcher v. Toby Klein (IWA-MS King of the Death Match 6/23/04)
Sweet holy motherfucking sweet fucking fucking sweet holy SHIT. This was incredible. I will cop to not seeing very many death matches, but if I ever see one of the US that comes close to this I will be surprised. Necro isn't your normal death match wrestler; instead of just hurling shit at people’s faces for the sake of spectacle (or for the sake of hurling shit at people’s faces), he’ll hurl shit at people’s faces because he needs a break from having similar shit hurled in his face. He works from underneath. How often do you see a wrestler throw a set of light tubes at another wrestler’s face and call it a fucking hope spot? None? Probably none. Well Necro can be added to the list of ‘probably none’, so, I guess, that list now becomes ‘probably one’. Necro takes a fucking ass whooping. He eats a powerbomb off of the fucking bleacher onto a barely-padded concrete floor, and I say ‘barely padded’ as in ‘legitimately may as well have had no padding’ and not ‘those shitty indy mats’ – this was much thinner than a shitty indy mat. He has chairs thrown directly at his head, one of which Klein just shot-puts and pretty much misses, so the leg of the chair missiles into Necro face fucking face. He gets his face shredded with a rolling pin with thumbtacks attached to it (the fuck came UP with that!?). He gets SALT POURED ONTO HIS OPEN FUCKING WOUNDS. He sells his stomach when hit, and then moves his fucking arms out of the way so Klein can get a clear shot at him. Who fucking does that!? He takes shit directly to the head without even moving his arms the slightest bit up. He even fucks himself on his own moves; he almost misses a senton from the top of the turnbuckle to the floor and lands on that shitty barely-padded concrete. Do you now how times I uttered ‘Fucking HELL’ aloud is this match!? I’m not kidding. I legitimately, with all honesty in soul, was babbling like a mental patient watching this. ‘Fucking HELL’ ‘WHAT THE FUCK!?’ ‘Holy FUCK” ‘FUCKING HELL!!!’ I literally held my head from cringing on some of this shit. At some points I was also smiling like a mental patient, as well. At one point Necro throws one of the greatest FUCKING punches I’ve ever seen and one of the greatest FUCKING stomps I’ve ever seen, while trying to battle from underneath. Turns out practically everything he does looks that good. I don’t think I’m exaggerating when I say he looked like a top 10 punch of all time in this. They were incredible. This was incredible. Someone trying to fight an uphill battle is the best possible thing to do in a death match. It really makes the weapons feel worthwhile; not just props to get a shock reaction. Necro’s amazing ass punches and headbutts and stumbling around like a blind man who got stuck being twirled around in a revolver door and desperation chair shots and light tubes and wholllly shit. This didn't have the fully pro-face crowd that the 2003 Rotten/Hero v. Stratton stuff did, but it clearly felt like a babyface trying to outfight a heel. The ‘Necro’ chants WERE pretty clear, and I remember Klein trying to shut them up and then smiling when one random dude chanted ‘Klein’, so there’s that. Necro even uses a sleeper that he quickly turns into a spike to the throat. That becomes a pretty big spot, where Klein tries to hurl light tubes at Necro’s skull and the ref gets wiped a couple of times. But Necro won’t fucking let go. The ending death valley driver on a chair looked goddamn brutal. That chair did not fucking budge. Craig, where are you? Have you watched this? I don’t like predicting people’s opinions (especially yours b/c I can never accurately predict it), but this feels like something you would put high. I’m sitting here trying to remember more about this because there was stuff I think I actually forgot. This was incredible.



;D



WOOLCOCK said:


> I also remember an Angle/Storm match that I watched on IMPACT and Tazz brought up Storm wanting to avoid grappling with Angle and focusing on making it a brawl where he stood a better chance. Storm then proceeded to decisively outwrestle Kurt on the mat and make Tazz look like an utter lemon (something he no doubt would have accomplished himself with sufficient time) for his comment.


That is beautiful. Storm clearly should go for the gold next Olympics. He and all of the other quality amateurs like Shane McMahon would clean-sweep the division.



Obfuscation said:


> Been meaning to check out the Angle vs Edge '02 series myself. I'm sure they'll hold up. I honestly adore those matches to the point of dubbing them my favorite bit from Edge in his singles career.


Honestly, other than the Matt Hardy feud, I'm pretty sure I'd agree. That's IF they hold up. I don't expect them to be amazing or anything but I don;t expect them to not be good, either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Spoiler: HOLY SHIIIIIIT!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I may still go mildly nuts over the cage. Had a blast last time I watched it. KURT WRESTLES WITH THE WIG ON. HULK HOGAN COMES OUT WITH A CHAIR. THEY'RE IN CANADA. AMERICANS RUNNING WILD.

Pretty certain I've seen the Necro match you speak of too. Eons ago.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I've never heard of that Necro match but now I crave it like Cal craves the implosion of a certain building in his town.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like Wig Angle. He still has hair, he just decides to wear the headgear. It's to prevent cauliflower ears. Classic heel in denial. I like Wig Angle.

^^It will be on youtube soon. Maybe not 'soon'. IDK.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

angle was far better when he didnt take himself so seriously

infact, a lot of wrestling is

not everything is supposed to be "OMFG IM GONNA FUCKING KILL YOU SO MUCH AND RAPE YOUR SKULL"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starting to bug me I can't think of a Necro Butcher match to plug atm that either of you probably haven't seen before. Well I got one that's pretty wild, but its a six man and don't think you dudes would care much for it. Like it's rad, just not you know, Necro vs Danielson, Low Ki, or Samoa Joe rad.

There is Necro vs Claudio Castagnoli where its a brawl the majority of the match then Necro wins with a wrestling move. That's always the best. Or when Necro kills some ROH students dressed up as a chipmunk.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

JOAL.com said:


> angle was far better when he didnt take himself so seriously
> 
> infact, a lot of wrestling is
> 
> not everything is supposed to be "OMFG IM GONNA FUCKING KILL YOU SO MUCH AND RAPE YOUR SKULL"


Angle on commentary here is five stars. :lmao

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x70cz8_edge-vs-booker-t_sport#.Uadch0DI2vY



Obfuscation said:


> Starting to bug me I can't think of a Necro Butcher match to plug atm that either of you probably haven't seen before. Well I got one that's pretty wild, but its a six man and don't think you dudes would care much for it. Like it's rad, just not you know, Necro vs Danielson, Low Ki, or Samoa Joe rad.
> 
> There is Necro vs Claudio Castagnoli where its a brawl the majority of the match then Necro wins with a wrestling move. That's always the best. Or when Necro kills some ROH students dressed up as a chipmunk.


Necro/Hero/Super Dragon v. Whitmer/Joe/Adam Pearce? I actually love that.  I liked it more than Necro v. Ki. I haven't seen Necro/Dragon or Necro/Claudio. I VILL, vun' day.

C.P. MUNK.



Spoiler: j















nothin' from nowhere I'm no one at all.....


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Watching some 2007 ECW. At June now. Man how great Punk/Benoit would have been. Such a shame.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'd place Miz's match with Morrison (Falls Count Anywhere) as his best so far in the WWE. ****1/4. An extra 1/4 is added due to it being a TV match, which make standards considerably lower than PPV ones.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Necro/Hero/Super Dragon v. Whitmer/Joe/Adam Pearce? I actually love that.  I liked it more than Necro v. Ki. I haven't seen Necro/Dragon or Necro/Claudio. I VILL, vun' day.
> 
> C.P. MUNK.
> 
> ...


Oh nah. that one is amazing. I'm was thinking Necro/Hero/Candice LaRae vs Human Tornado/Claudio/Eddie Kingston from PWG All Star Weekend VI Night One. The PWG Necro vs Danielson match is the one more worth checking out. Both happened in 2007 & both were like under ten minutes, but certainly the PWG one is the one that hit on all cylinders.

That was Necro the WHOLE time. I believe it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Angle on commentary here is five stars. :lmao
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x70cz8_edge-vs-booker-t_sport#.Uadch0DI2vY
> 
> ...


"Ya'll gonna make my mind up in here, UP IN HERE' :lmao

Is that 6 man from the 100th Show? I seem to recall a big 6 man brawl being pimped from that show during the ROH/CZW feud. If it is I'm sure its the one where Whitmer almost dies on a burning hammer through a table off the apron.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's the one SI.

SUPER DRAGON was in it. Psycho Driver off the apron through the table - I'm a bastard of a fan for marking out.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Whitmer is one crazy SOB for even taking that move. I don't even want to consider the ramifications had that been executed badly. Yikes.

Most memorable Whitmer moment in ROH will forever be the Top Rope Powerbomb into the crowd vs Jacobs. Who the fuck even attempts that?






1.50 onwards.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Omg YES.

I went bonkers the moment I saw that. Whitmer vs Jacobs, those two died. More than once. What you see now are zombies who have decided to continue wrestling. Its why Jimmy's nickname for a good bit was "Zombie Princess". See, it all fits.

but seriously, their work together is absurd. More importantly - great. The quality standard when it came to a definitive brawl from ROH or I guess the indie scene in general. Only thing to come close was the ROH vs CZW feud, which Whitmer was at the helm of. Look at his 2006. He was in a slew of nutty matches & brawls. I've lost track of the bumps. Enter 2007 and it didn't stop. Had the wicked Falls Count Anywhere match followed by the memorable Steel Cage to finish the program vs Jacobs in ROH. Only a note to why I'm a fan of both men. What passion.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I seem to recall an earlier match of theirs where they had an unfortunate botch and Jacobs took a powerbomb or something onto the apron and to the floor in a lunatic fall that could have killed him. Least I think it was those two.

Aye their FYF Finale FCA match is one of my favourite indy brawls of the decade. Simple, basic and worked to perfection. Relies on nutty and painful bumps and the character dynamic to guide the bulk of the match and build to the bigger moments beautifully. Short and doesn't overstay its welcome and just comes off as an authentic fight. Their I Quit match in IWA-MS in '08 is also outstanding. Jacobs eats an absolute shit-kicking and it has arguably the most definitive finish one could ask for in a grudge match: repetitive spike shots to the balls. OUCH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was those two. Dragon Gate Challenge. Their first match in their grudge series and it begins with that. A wicked precursor. Whitmer's ankle was shot from that point on till about mid '06 when he took time off to heal.

I do believe their I Quit is the one match of theirs I never saw. I saw their No Rope Barbed Wire match from IWA-MS in '08. Never the I Quit. Dunno which came first. After that finish, I have to imagine it was the I Quit that was the final.

Oh, duh. Just thought of a Necro match that's worth a plug. vs Whitmer in the No Rope Barbed Wire match from ROH July '06. War of the Wire II. Its excellent if my memory serves me correctly. Feel like a dunce taking this long to mention it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I Quit might be my favourite match of theirs tbhayley. Jacobs' face performance is excellent and Whitmer works as this hired goon who takes immense satisfaction in finding new ways to torture Jacobs for his own amusement. Whole thing is violent but without excessive props and the weapons they concentrate on they use to accentuate the tension and add to the match. Jacobs' ordeal feels comparable to Cena's beating @ Breaking Point and his comeback is defiant, instinctive and memorable.

I'll try and track down that Necro/Whitmer match if I can. Found your baby btw in the form of Jacobs/Danielson from Unscripted III


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im abou to watch 1992 ppvs


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ooooh. Comparable to Cena @ Breaking Point. I'm already thinking I'll love it. Its matches such as these vs Jacobs which shows how underrated Whitmer is with some folk. He isn't Bryan Danielson of course, but he's good. He works hard, takes a licking, and can work with proper use of storytelling, selling, & etc. He doesn't get his due with some fans. He doesn't have to be ones favorite, but mentioning him in a list of good workers from ROH's prime year is kind of a essential. Jacobs speaks for himself with his talent. That man has been getting his due among folk more and more.

omg you got it. I know it is on dailymotion - I should have sent it to you a whole lot sooner. Match reaches down to the bottom of my heart _(and loins)_ and tickles it till I get my jollies off in a euphoric_ "I love watching this wrestling match"_ kind of way. :mark:


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

King Kenny said:


> im abou to watch 1992 ppvs


all i remember was, the royal rumble was fantastic. possibly the best ever asides from 2001


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wcw i mean


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

WCW was also goating in 1991

that roster 

fapfapfapfap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're still in line for something fantastic. The entire year of wrestling.

Dangerous Alliance, man. The D-Alliance.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cm Punk vs Chris Jericho raw 2/4/13 ***3/4

good match, it suffers from having no energy. It felt like they were sleepwalking for the first 10 mins and turned it on for the last 5. :lol at Punk saying " sit down mark". I miss punk so much. 

I remember asking myself what I would do if both of my favorites unk and :ziggler1 were not on raw, would I watch? well since both are gone I kinda have stopped watch excluding the shield matches


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Is Barrett vs. Sheamus from last night worth watching?

Edit: Bare in mind I have every ROH 2007 show locked and loaded as well... :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Is Barrett vs. Sheamus from last night worth watching?


Indeed it is. Top 5 singles matches for both men for me:

Barrett:
(***3/4)
1) vs. Cena HIAC 2010
2) vs. Bryan SS 2011
3) vs. Sheamus Main Event 5/28/2013
(***1/4)
4) vs. Bryan SD 2011
5) vs. Mysterio Raw 2/11/2011


Sheamus:
(****)
1) vs. Bryan ER 2012
2) vs. Morrison TLC 2010
(***3/4)
3) vs. Big Show HIAC 2012
4) vs. Barrett Main Event 5/28/2013
5) vs. Ziggler NWO 2012


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I give a ***1/2 for Sheamus/Barrett from last night. Great match, Barrett rocked here


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A good Barrett match? And against Sheamus too (nothing against Sheamus, he rocks... but fuck I hate his matches with Barrett)? I R WARY.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I thought all English people loved Barrett 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I ain't English ya daft tit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought one was English.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE FUCK?

CAL'S NOT ENGLISH?

SINCE WHEN?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One talks great English for a Lithuanian


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cal's name is ONE?

SINCE WHEN?

THE FUCK IS THIS ?

EDIT: **** 1/4* for Hardy Vs JBL @ Armageddon 2005, great opener with some really stiff exchanges. Had to keep things WRASSLIN' related.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Cal's name is ONE?
> 
> SINCE WHEN?
> 
> ...


yeah, i slipped into stereotypical, pompus, upper-class, posh, load of old bollocks, olde' English mode


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_Big Van Vader & Steve Austin vs. Ric Flair & Sid Vicious - 11/13/93_

Quick question about match, was it Sid or was he replaced by Arn Anderson?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

i dont know where big z is from, all fucking white people look the same


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching the new rivalries documentary. New women host seems really forced with the shit she's saying. No like her. Weird that they only have ONE person talking about each feud... and never anyone actually involved in them lol. Only about 5 into it, and so far only Heyman really makes sense to talk about the Punk/Cena feud since he's close to Punk and shit .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HOLY SHIT.

CALLAMUS.


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

whats a callamus

bring back the attitude era kingcal. I DONT LIKE CHANGE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I haven't been a KING for some time. Now I serve a King. The King of the North. And practically none of you have any idea what I'm really on about :lmao.

:lmao at the rivalry list. Totally forgot the order. I don't even know how WWE justified it to themselves :lmao. Orton/HHH is ON the list... and above some true fucking classic rivalries.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Is there a torrent for the Top 25 Rivalaries set yet? Might like to watch it for lulz. WWE countdown docs are dreadful. Bring back cartoon era WWF Coliseum Home Videos back I say!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I heard there is some cool backstage footage of HBK/Taker from one of their Mania matches when it comes to their part of the doc. That should be worth a watch, if it's true of course.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Forever Unchained said:


> Is there a torrent for the Top 25 Rivalaries set yet? Might like to watch it for lulz. WWE countdown docs are dreadful. Bring back cartoon era WWF Coliseum Home Videos back I say!


If you have Netflix it will pop up on there in a few months. That is how I watch the random documentaries I don't want to buy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> :lmao at the rivalry list. Totally forgot the order. I don't even know how WWE justified it to themselves :lmao. Orton/HHH is ON the list... and above some true fucking classic rivalries.


It was a pretty good feud, though. The Mania match was disappointing but the build-up was great. Orton having his way with Stephanie in the PG era? We'll never see anything like that again!

And I second the BRING BACK KINGCAL demands!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The only thing I remember from the HHH/Orton build we're Shane's PHANTOM PUNCHES.

In all seriousness, Orton was pretty badass back then.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I just saw the list, and it's not so bad. The top 5 or so make sense. I also like Trips/Orton, but the last segment on the go home show for Mania was stupid. PHANTOM PUNCHES


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So what's the order for the Rivalry list?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Here you go.



Spoiler: Top 25 Rivalries



#25 – Triple H vs. Mick Foley
#24 – Tazz vs. Sabu
#23 – Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero
#22 – Bruiser Brody vs. Abdullah the Butcher
#21 – Hulk Hogan vs. Roddy Piper
#20 – CM Punk vs. John Cena
#19 – Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar
#18 – Randy Orton vs. Triple H
#17 – Verne Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkel
#16 – Mankind vs. The Undertaker
#15 – Tommy Dreamer vs. Raven
#14 – Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker
#13 – Triple H vs. The Rock
#12 – John Cena vs. Edge
#11 – Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage
#10 – Tully Blanchard vs. Magnum T.A.
#9 – The Undertaker vs. Kane
#8 – Edge & Christian vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Dudley Boyz
#7 – Dusty Rhodes vs. Ric Flair
#6 – Von Erichs vs. The Fabulous Freebirds
#5 – Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock
#4 – Andre the Giant vs. Hulk Hogan
#3 – Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat
#2 – Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart
#1 – Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Mr. McMahon


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Thanks.

Not a bad list actually. I'd probably move #9 up to #5, #5 to #2, #2 to #3, and put #3 off the list or at least out of the top 10 as I know virtually nothing about that one. There are other changes/rivalries I know little to nothing about on the list, but let's leave it at those. It looks like one of the better lists WWE has put out (which isn't saying much, but still...).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IIRC the Orton/Helmsley feud had the shit where HHH went into Orton's house and smashed shit and scared his wife and was arrested. That was like the lamest possible attempt at a Steve Austin moment ever. Still, it isn't worse than Rey's kid being involved in the Rey/Eddie feud.



Obfuscation said:


> Oh nah. that one is amazing. I'm was thinking Necro/Hero/Candice LaRae vs Human Tornado/Claudio/Eddie Kingston from PWG All Star Weekend VI Night One. The PWG Necro vs Danielson match is the one more worth checking out. Both happened in 2007 & both were like under ten minutes, but certainly the PWG one is the one that hit on all cylinders.


I'll check the six man out some time, if I remember to. I'll pretty much watch anything out of curiosity that it might be good. I'm morphing into a Necro mark so I espeically want to see shitty shit with him in it.



zep81 said:


> _Big Van Vader & Steve Austin vs. Ric Flair & Sid Vicious - 11/13/93_
> 
> Quick question about match, was it Sid or was he replaced by Arn Anderson?


replaced by Arn. Sid gets all Sidded up in there or something and Arn takes over.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Good to see HHH/Orton ranking above Punk/Cena.

And YEAH, would you care to show me a match where I can see why Konnan is as bad as you believe? Only in-ring footage of him I've seen is one video of botches where he failed to catch his opponent after a springboard move.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Not a bad list at all. I'm glad they included #6. Great storyline and feud if you can find it.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Not a bad list actually. I'd probably move #9 up to #5, #5 to #2, #2 to #3, and put #3 off the list or at least out of the top 10 as I know virtually nothing about that one. There are other changes/rivalries I know little to nothing about on the list, but let's leave it at those. It looks like one of the better lists WWE has put out (which isn't saying much, but still...).


Really? Probably the best work out of either of them.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Good to see HHH/Orton ranking above Punk/Cena.


WHY?



Choke2Death said:


> And YEAH, would you care to show me a match where I can see why Konnan is as bad as you believe? Only in-ring footage of him I've seen is one video of botches where he failed to catch his opponent after a springboard move.


That pre' much sums up his ASS of a career. You can basically check out any Konnan match and it'll look like every match is the first he's ever wrestled (plus has had no training....ever. It's genuinely like nobody ever taught him how to do anything). I remember a PPV match with somebody (Flair?) in 1996 for the US title being goddamn terrible and I only watched the JIP of it.


OK, I just checked who the fuck supposedly "TRAINED" Konnan, and what. the. fuck. 

Super Astro
***** Casas
Eddie Guerrero
Rey Misterio, Sr.

How do you suck so fucking much when THESE guys are training you!? That is seriously the best line-up of trainers I've ever seen a wrestler have. I've seen dudes just WRESTLE AGAINST ***** Casas and just look good next to him. Casas is a legit GOATC, how did you suck so much, Konnan!? It's not like Konnan was 'just average' or anything; he fucking blew chunks. How!?


I feel like watching a bunch o' Konnan.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think anything is worse than the Dominic feud.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> WHY?


Because it's overrated!



> That pre' much sums up his ASS of a career. You can basically check out any Konnan match and it'll look like every match is the first he's ever wrestled (plus has had no training....ever. It's genuinely like nobody ever taught him how to do anything). I remember a PPV match with somebody (Flair?) in 1996 for the US title being goddamn terrible and I only watched the JIP of it.
> 
> 
> OK, I just checked who the fuck supposedly "TRAINED" Konnan, and what. the. fuck.
> ...


LMAO, sounds like I have to see it to believe it.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Whenever I'm watching mid-90's WCW, Konnan was so lazy. He just didn't seem to care and it was cringe worthy watching.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It could be overrated, I guess (though, not that much) but it doesn't reach the level of suck that HHH/Orton did at any point. Overrated is one thing but "Holy fucking shit is this really the WrestleMania main event please make it stop this is awful"* is another thing thingy.


* = I mean the main to Mania XXV, fwiw. IDK if that was clear even though it probably was.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Goddamn I think it was the WM match that started making me lose interest in Orton. The first few months of his insane gimmick were really good but after that I slowly began losing interest and when he turned face, I just lost hope. 

I'll probably give that rivalries DVD a look if it's on netflix. But I can't say I'm incredibly interesting.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Were it not for the Dominick feud, GAB would never have happened.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The fact that Foley-HHH & Punk-Cena are so low, yet Bret Vs Shawn is so high .

& HOL, that's what makes the entire Dominick saga worth it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'll check the six man out some time, if I remember to. I'll pretty much watch anything out of curiosity that it might be good. I'm morphing into a Necro mark so I espeically want to see shitty shit with him in it.


(Y)

btw, the definitive shitty Konnan match _(all of them...)_ is vs Hugh Morrus from Slamboree '97. He lays on the ground attempting to do a submission the entire match. You're tearing out your hair wanting something to happen and it doesn't.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I see basically everyone shit on Konnan, but I hear he's Mexico's Hulk Hogan. Why is that?. I don't care for WCW and that's where he spent most of his North American career I believe, so I don't know much about him.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BECAUSE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE LIKE SHITTY/STUPID THINGS.

Sad, but true.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think Mexico's Hulk Hogan is a massive exaggeration since Hogan had a huge impact and I'm pretty sure Konnan didn't, but Konnan was a big draw over there. For some inexplicable reason people really wanted to see him, and Vampiro. Vampiro also sucks a bigass donkey willy.

Also Mexico's in North America. ......it is, right? Right?


----------



## sarrydoter123 (May 31, 2013)

hello friends, I m new in this forum.i like it very much


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

sarrydoter123 said:


> hello friends, I m new in this forum.i like it very much


:lmao

this is incredible


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Also Mexico's in North America. ......it is, right? Right?


It's been a long day.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Benoit vs. Angle RR 2003 ***1/4 - I seriously don't understand the praise for this match, It's nothing that breaks into the "amazing", "fantastic" or even "great" category. Angle spams his usual shit of suplexes and Benoit reacts with his own. The finishing stretch was the usual consistence of counters into submission holds, fine in execution but nothing creative. 

I've seen this dubbed as a ***** match and even the best ever. May i ask. WHY? Hell, I don't think it'll even break into my top 20 for 2003, let alone MOTY, let alone *****, let even more alone GOAT match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

What didn't you like about it?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sarrydoter123 said:


> hello friends, I m new in this forum.i like it very much


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

probably that they trade hold for hold continually with absolutely no space in between. Well that's what I don't like about it, anyway. If he lovs that part and thinks something else stinks about it then IDK what I'm talking about. 

I wrote this after watching it in April; 



> Kurt Angle v. Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 1/19/03)
> So yeah, this was good.....until it wasn't. At first it was a pretty heated Chris Benoit trying to quickly win the title from Angle, and Angle was carefully but just as quickly getting the hell out of the trouble he was in. The Sharpshooter, no matter where you see it, is a pretty protected move. Bret Hart in WWF, Sting in WCW, Riki Choshu in New Japan - it puts dudes away. So I really, really dug Angle scurrying the fuck out of the sharpshooter attempts by Benoit because he knew it could be over if Chris locked it in. I was looking forward to a potential 'Angle escapes Benoit's stuff' story, but I knew I wasn't going to get it (b/c I've seen this before duh). So Angle gets on offense, and it's kind of boring. Apparently his idea of a hope spot/control switch spot is an Irish whip and a belly-to-belly throw. Yeah, I dunno, it just bugged me. Why, of every move you can use to change from defense from offense would you use that? It's not the move itself- he used a belly-to-belly when Benoit came running after him, and I found that OK because he's actually catching a dude. But getting up after eating offense and then using an IRISH WHIP + that move just seems so out of place. Angle's submissions are boring as well. All right he has a dude in a choke/grapeviney thing, but I didn't care. It's a smart strategy and everything, but 'smart' doesn't always equal 'fun to watch', especially when 'smart' is 'immobile'. He wasn't doing anything while in it, and I wander off to the knee brace that he's supposed to be milking an injury out of that is completely ignored the whole match. OK, I didn't like Angle in control, but fuck, I hated Angle AND Benoit in control. German > German > German German > German. If these were German ATTEMPTS I would applaud them. No reason that'd be a bother, right? But no, they hit them. Aaaaaaaand crossface > ankle lock > crossface, ankle lock > ankle lock > crossface, German, goes to top rope > Angle sprints up top rope for belly to belly (ugh) > crossface...yeah, I don't give a shit. I get done praising Angle for making the sharpshooter look vicious and something that warrants concern, and then they spam the crap out of finishers in a way that makes them look like they pretty much CAN'T finish the match with any of them. This wasn't the worst case of this (or close to it), and they did the spammy finisher trade better than most might do the spammy finisher trade, but I just hate a fucking spammy finisher trade. One of the worst things about this is the neat shit they did in between all of this stuff. In another moment and match, Angle reversing the crossface with the 'banana split' pin would have been a great spot. Benoit's gigantic 'Angle lands on his belly' suplex would have been a great spot. Benoit reversing the German with the leg-scissor roll-up thingy would have been a great spot. They were in this match though, and this is a match I thought would hold up much better. I won't feel much need to ever watch this again.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> What didn't you like about it?


Everything was solid (hence ***1/4 rating), but nothing stuck out to me, to label it as amazing.


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

yeah1993 what would you say an interesting/logical control segment should consist of if not irish whips and belly to belly suplex'? Just wondering, I don't disagree with you but I'd just like to get your thoughts. Oh yeh and when would you say a move like an "irish whip" is appropriate to use?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Id like to chime in on this question, if I may... 

An interesting control segment should differ from wrestler to wrestler, from match to match. It's completely circumstancial. Big show's control segment would, and should, differ from Drew McIntyre's control segment because they're two different workers with two different characters. Also, Big Show's control segment over Brock Lesnar should differ entirely from Big Show's control segment over Rey Mysterio. Control segments, in my opinion, should be the bulk of the heel's character work and should showcase the little nuances that make them different over everybody else on the roster. So it is impossible to say what a control segment should consist of in general, because every single one should be different, it just has to make sense given who's segment it is, whom they are controlling, what environment they're in and whatever else may affect it, such as injuries, the wrestler's psyche and any factors in-storyline that may make a difference. A cerebral wrestler such as Drew McIntyre may take advantage of a weakened leg of Christian, but a dominant brute like Mark Henry might not give a shit and just run over him with force and power. Both make sense because of who they are, but wouldn't make sense if they were the other way around.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Its weird b/c Angle did that headlock/grapevine thingy vs Brock at WM 19 too and it is so dull. _(that's not the weird part)_ Yet, I recall JBL doing it vs Cena at Judgment Day '08 and I didn't mind it much. Probably b/c it didn't last as long & went with the tone of the match. Whereas Angle's bouts had a higher pace only to be immediately halted for the guy to lay down on his opponent.

I'm over most Angle vs Benoit matches these days. I used to sing their praises; till I watched them again. Not "horrible" just nothing fantastic about most.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HWRP said:


> yeah1993 what would you say an interesting/logical control segment should consist of if not irish whips and belly to belly suplex'? Just wondering, I don't disagree with you but I'd just like to get your thoughts. Oh yeh and when would you say a move like an "irish whip" is appropriate to use?


It felt so out of place. I mentioned this last night, but why on earth would anybody EVER use an Irish whip while getting beat up, even if wrestling? If you're on the floor getting pounded, the first thought in the head isn't going to be 'Irish whip', it's going to be something like 'punch to the fuckin face' or something something. There are fifty thousand good ways of transition from selling to offense (and even more good forms of hope spots) and an Irish whip is not one of them. It's completely a bizarre thing to use at that point in time.

An Irish whip is one of the more unrealistic and silly moves in wrestling (grab a dude's arm, THROW him, and you threw him so hard that he runs toward the ropes, and runs back to you...YEAOK), but they exist and are good and common and awesome and tolerable and MILLION STARS. Basically what I'm saying is there are times and places for them (many times and places - they're a good move) and I think they're commonly used because they work in many situations, just not for a transition. I kind of hate it when wrestlers use it as a hot tag move, as well, for example, which is something HHH is guilty of. Fuck....have you ever taken notice just how many times HHH uses an Irish whip in one match? I didn't notice it until someone pointed it out, but man, Helmsley loves them arm-grab-throws from Ireland. 

Come to think of it a hot tag is a transition in some ways. So yeah, Irish whip = stinky for transitions.

The belly-to-belly didn't really bother me. I mean I mentioned how Benoit ran toward Angle later and Angle caught him with a BTB and I thought that was kinda cool (that would have been a better transition, imo, fwiw, bbq, ***3/4). I just mentioned the BTB b/c that was the move Angle used after the Irish whip, and I didn't want it to look like I was saying Angle JUST used an Irish whip.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Whats everyone's real thoughts on the Brock/HHH - Extreme Rules match?

Finally watched it for the first time last night. Brock's selling was great as always, but fuck Triple H for making the match go that way, i just hated the way they made Brock look for most of the match, yeah i know he flew into the cage knee first and that what happens, but i dunno what HHH and co were trying to accomplish apart from maybe making Brock look more 'normal and human'.

Or i guess is was all just for Trips' ego or whatever, Brock was great to watch of course but personally i hated the way they tried to make him look, yeah at least the finish was strong with the sledgehammer/F5, but this should have been the match for Brock to dominate.

Yeah the match had that solid story to it, and maybe that is the reason why they went the way they did, but i guess i just expected something different.

Stars? Fuck knows, ***1/2, if i have another watch of it i may feel different, but atm im just annoyed with it, im probably the only one and probably talking nonsense, but just how i feel.

Maybe i'm missing the whole big point.

Brock/HHH:

SS - **** (maybe ****1/4)
WM - *** (mainly for Brock)
ER - ***1/2 

Still, cannot wait for Brockmeister to return.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You're not the only one who thought it should have been worked a different way. I've said a good few times Brock looked too vulnerable in it. Few others felt the same way, IIRC. I know Bubz did. Maybe someone or sometwo else.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Didn't remember watching the Benoit/Angle matches from Unforgiven '02 n RR '03 initially, so i watched both and simply found them to be good.

Lesnar/Triple H:

SS DUD
WM29 ***1/2
ER ** (*HATED* Lesnar's selling of his knee)


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Orton's 2007 as per match quality is definitely overlooked due to Cena's. What's everyones judgements on his LMS match with Triple H at NM and SS with Shawn?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bme said:


> Didn't remember watching the Benoit/Angle matches from Unforgiven '02 n RR '03 initially, so i watched both and simply found them to be good.
> 
> Lesnar/Triple H:
> 
> ...


Yeah, i also hated the way they made Lesnar have that injury (of course Brock sold it like a champ (or should that be chump eh Trips :cussin: ).

But he should never be in a position like that, esp for that length of time, it was pretty much the whole match, plus HHH attacking Lesnar before he got in the ring.

I tell ya, i was calling Trips all the names under the fucking sun whilst watching, sorry marks but FUCK YOU HHH, im just pissed off at the whole thing, and IF (gets on knees and PRAYS that they wont) they have abother match, as much as i love Brock, i just dont think i could watch it because it'll just end up another Triple H ego trip with him winning,

Does this mean Brock will lose the next match he is in then (probably with Punk by all accounts)?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Fluze said:


> Orton's 2007 as per match quality is definitely overlooked due to Cena's. What's everyones judgements on his LMS match with Triple H at NM and SS with Shawn?


****1/2 and ****1/4, respectively. Orton may get overlooked compared to Cena in 2007, but he's way better in the couple of years previous.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

zep81 said:


> Yeah, i also hated the way they made Lesnar have that injury (of course Brock sold it like a champ (or should that be chump eh Trips :cussin: ).
> 
> But he should never be in a position like that, esp for that length of time, it was pretty much the whole match, plus HHH attacking Lesnar before he got in the ring.
> 
> ...


I was literally cringing as Lesnar sold the knee injury it was that bad.
If they merely hinted at a 4th match i'd rage, i didnt want them to face off when people first started talking about it.

Id love to see Lesnar/Punk but the company would be in a tough spot on who'd win.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You could say "yeah. but Brock beat Triple H on one leg", but that should never had been the story at all, and Trips still looked strong as hell even though he got 'knocked out', and when Heyman low-blowed HHH, i did say well what is the point in that, he has no fucking bollocks (sorry, he really has annoyed me lol).


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I wasn't a big fan of Lesnar having to sell the injury either, but what I disliked even more was Hunter's incessant need to feel like a badass. I know it's meant to be a war and Hunter has to do everything in his power to equalize the beast, and yes, he's the Cerebral Assassin, but IT'S TOO MUCH!

The whole match is reliant on Brock being this animal that people want to see put down, but in order for that to happen, surely Hunter has to be somewhat sympathetic. That's a huge problem I have with Hunter as a babyface. It seems like he never wants to take that role on for too long. He always wants to be the guy that's dominating, not the guy that's getting dominated. Even in the build-up, he's the "ass kicker". He's the guy that's running Brock off. The guy that's calling Brock a bitch. How in the fuck is Triple H the ass kicker against B-RAWK LESSSSS-NAR? 

I can't get invested in anything Hunter does inside the cage. Before the match even starts, he's already attacking Brock from behind. It's a smart strategy but something that puts an awful taste in my mouth. Then you've got the injury, the sledgehammer, the low blow. I'm sure it was meant to paint Brock as this terminator that will walk through fire, but if anything, I spend the whole match willing Brock on. Hunter is in the cage with THE BEAST INCARNATE and Brock ends up being the sympathetic one.

I don't hate the match or anything, but if it wasn't for Brock, I doubt I would have liked it very much. If I had to sum up the match in one sentence it would be; Brock's work is outstanding and Hunter plays a crummy babyface.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Its known that the main component for the steel cage match being great or favorable by those who did like it was via Brock's work. And Heyman.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Duke Silver said:


> I wasn't a big fan of Lesnar having to sell the injury either, but what I disliked even more was Hunter's incessant need to feel like a badass. I know it's meant to be a war and Hunter has to do everything in his power to equalize the beast, and yes, he's the Cerebral Assassin, but IT'S TOO MUCH!
> 
> The whole match is reliant on Brock being this animal that people want to see put down, but in order for that to happen, surely Hunter has to be somewhat sympathetic. That's a huge problem I have with Hunter as a babyface. It seems like he never wants to take that role on for too long. He always wants to be the guy that's dominating, not the guy that's getting dominated. Even in the build-up, he's the "ass kicker". He's the guy that's running Brock off. The guy that's calling Brock a bitch. How in the fuck is Triple H the ass kicker against B-RAWK LESSSSS-NAR?
> 
> ...


If it wasnt for Brock being in it, i wouldnt have even watched it at all, i just cannot watch Triple H anymore against anyone else, like you say, its his need to make himself seem like a badass all the time, always being the one to look the strongest, even at the end of the match with Brock winning by effectivly knocking Trips out, still resulted in HHH coming out on Raw and building that ending around him with the concussion thing, just fuck off FFS, jeez. :cuss:

For all the money in the world, i just dont think i could put up with what Brock has so far, i know he loved performing, but its beyond a joke now, you can of course tell Trips is just loving it, but us smarties know what its really about, and you are 1000% right in that post mate, HHH cannot play as a babyface, he just has to come out like he is the main man etc, Brock just shoot style on the fucker.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H - that dumb twat.

That's the point here, right? :troll


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Triple H - that dumb twat.
> 
> That's the point here, right? :troll


Yeah, that's about how polite i can put it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've STILL not watched anything from Extreme Rules yet. I just don't care lol. Wrestling can fuck off atm outside of THE SHIELD, DANIEL BRYAN, AND... THE SHIELD AND DANIEL BRYAN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And NXT too. amirite, Cal...lamus.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I rarely watch NXT. Just when someone (well someone who's opinion I give a damn about) pimps a match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You should watch that religiously and then do the opposite for all other WWE programs.

The stress will cease.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Or I could just watch Impact 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Joe Park did have the best match on the show again this week. You may be onto something...

8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A new company needs to start up, with the roster made up of THE SHIELD, DANIEL BRYAN, UNDERTAKER, BROCK LESNAR, JOSEPH PARK and a couple of other guys only. Would be GOAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can Sami Callihan join?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eeehhhhh... maybe. Depends how well he adapts to the WWE style. Less of his terrible shit and more of his good shit and he'll be fine.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

BIG CAL

watch some older shit like im doing


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like the wrestling on coke style. 

Sign Finlay and have him beatdown Callihan often and things will be grand.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao the guy they got to talk about the Austin/Rock rivalry on the new DVD is... THE JIZ.

Oh shit its Vince Russo! I like him showing up on DVD sets now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Miz's career path has taken the biggest dip since he stopped being relevant.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I love how Pyro's favourites (minus the shield) have plummeted in every way possible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame he had to love Christian. Stupid Pyro, if he didn't like Christian so much he's probably be a permanent main eventer. Prick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao @ Cal.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Duke Silver said:


> I wasn't a big fan of Lesnar having to sell the injury either, but what I disliked even more was Hunter's incessant need to feel like a badass. I know it's meant to be a war and Hunter has to do everything in his power to equalize the beast, and yes, he's the Cerebral Assassin, but IT'S TOO MUCH!
> 
> The whole match is reliant on Brock being this animal that people want to see put down, but in order for that to happen, surely Hunter has to be somewhat sympathetic. That's a huge problem I have with Hunter as a babyface. *It seems like he never wants to take that role on for too long. He always wants to be the guy that's dominating, not the guy that's getting dominated.* Even in the build-up, he's the "ass kicker". He's the guy that's running Brock off. The guy that's calling Brock a bitch. How in the fuck is Triple H the ass kicker against B-RAWK LESSSSS-NAR?
> 
> ...


There was a nail here somewhere before you hit it on the head and drove its arse into the GROUND. I think HHH has this incredible fear of looking weak. Even when he's playing face in peril it doesn't really feel like he's playing face in peril. When he gets on top of something as a babyface it barely seems like a big deal because he never had time to fight his way upwards and make it look like a true babyface struggle. I have reservations about saying that and I'm not totally sure that's what I meant, but the jist is surely gotten by everyone. I really can't put it in better words than the bold part. I even underlined that shit, and considered italicizing it.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao Cal


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Finally got around to watching WrestleMania XXIX on Blu-ray, and actually enjoyed it a little bit more this time. I had leveled expectations going in to the show this year, simply because it was such an awesome card, I assumed WWE would fuck it up (like they did, IMO, with XX and XXVI), so as much as I was looking forward to the show, I was also prepared for the worst.

Luckily, I really enjoyed it when it aired, and actually enjoyed it even more now. My thoughts:

*Randy Orton, Sheamus, Big Show vs. The Shield*
I find it so odd that out of the major matches with The Shield, the least of them would be the one at WM. Luckily, though, they're so awesome that even their worst match is still damn good. I loved Sheamus following Big Show's lead with the chops, and looking back now, Show's 'turn' makes perfect sense. They recruited him, they doubted him, and they didn't give him a chance in the match, so he got pissed and took it out on Orton and Sheamus. It's one of those things that you can appreciate over time, unless you're really smart and can pick up on it over first viewing (I didn't).

The match itself is a solid tag, has some great action at the end, but the finish is abrupt. Good opener.

**3/4

*Ryback vs. Mark Henry*
I love 'big man' matches, especially ones that put a top face strongman against a monster heel. Henry's been on fire lately, but even on second viewing, this is strangely terrible. Why they gave it EIGHT minutes is beyond me. Cut it down to 5 or 6, let them pick up the pace, and have Ryback go over cleanly. Ryback is a terrible seller, so I never bought that Henry was actually hurting him. And the match was pretty boring. The only good part was the double-shock of Ryback lifting Henry and Henry falling on Ryback's head. As a finish, it makes sense, but it's also abrupt, and just didn't make sense for Ryback.

*1/2

*Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Big E Langston*
This match shows just how much you could cram into 7 minutes. The callback at the beginning was great, Big E looked good, the action was nonstop, and the finish was very exciting.

**3/4

*Chris Jericho vs. Fandango*
This match should HAVE been either 1) Jericho winning in 10 seconds, or 2) a good wrestling match. It's neither. 'Dango must have been incredibly nervous, because his work is sloppy, the whole match is sloppy and feels put together at the last second, and the finish (someone turning WOJ into a small package is such a cliché.) Although I will give them credit, the commentators tried to play up how Jericho tweaked his knee, then dropped, and Fandango capitalized by hooking the knee for the pin. That works, but the match still sucked.

*3/4

*Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger*
Swagger getting a jobber entrance is disgraceful. In fact, any wrestler getting a jobber entrance at WM is disgrace, least of all the #1 Contender in a world title match. I thought this match was good, had some great counters, especially at the end, but they deserved more time. Considering how much build went into this match, this was the WHC match at WM to get 15 minutes or so, instead of the usual 10. What I liked her was that you got two evenly matched submission wrestlers with real wrestling background, who had never faced each other, and a hot storyline, but they needed more time.

**3/4

*The Undertaker vs. CM Punk*
Unfortunately, no one, including myself actually thought that Punk could do it. Sadly, that takes away from the match a bit. No way is a nasty heel who's been mocking Paul Bearer going to end the streak at WM. Just wasn't going to happen. HBK at WM XXVI and HHH at XXVII I believed could do it. But not Punk. The match however, is friggin' awesome. UT can hang with the young guys and vice-versa for Punk. There were some sequences at the end that were just breathtaking, and UT's look when he sits up from the anaconda vice is just classic. I love the no sell GTS into the tombstone and the finish is perfect. Definite MOTYC.

****

*Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar*
For some reason, I enjoyed this match WAY more this time. The crowd was so dead, it was hard to get into it the first time, but I thought this was great. UT looked like a monster, HHH fought valiantly, and I thought the booking, especially towards the end, was very creative. HHH needed to get his revenge and avenge Vince, but it took a lot to keep Brock down. I could certainly see why people don't like this match (or any of their matches), but I really liked it. HBK's interference was perfect, scm on Heyman was great, and the finish was whoa.

***3/4

*The Rock vs. John Cena*
As someone who was, and still is, disappointed with Rock/Cena I, I had modest expectations. If it were ***, I'd be happy. Their first match was so overhyped that the mediocre result they delivered could only be perceived as a failure. Luckily, this match has about 5th of the buildup, and it was all great. That one promo on Old School Raw, the Legends Q&A, this feud was built on so much more than the usual garbage Rock and Cena were spewing at each other last year.

And the match is awesome. I love how tentative Cena was at the beginning, how much he tried to not let Rock get into his head early on. The counters were amazing and had me legitimately gasping. Cena's fakeout people's elbow was my markout moment of the year. (NOTE: The DVD rather moronically shows Cena's expression from a different angle, so you don't get to see his dickhead smirk when Rock realizes he got played. Nothing against the match, but that pisses me off).

I love a good finisher fest if it makes sense, and since the counters showed just how hard they were fighting, how much both needed to win, it worked. It's also The ROCK VS. JOHN CENA for the WWE CHAMPIONSHIP. This is the match to have kickouts.

The pace was nonstop, the action was exciting, and the match was so good that even though I was rooting for Cena (and was supremely pissed that he lost last year), I thought "even if Rock wins again, this was still a great match." Even better, this match can make me appreciate their first match even more, because I can see it's part of the puzzle. The callbacks make me appreciate the first match more.

As far as I am concerned, this is my favorite WM main event since XXIV, and the second-best match of the year (after Punk/Cena).


All in all, solid WM. I agree with everyone else that the lack of backstage segments kind of robbed the show of the ambience you expect at a WM. Recent WMs have had backstage segments that create a wonderful atmosphere for the show, like the hardcore title changes at X8, Rock's promo at XIX, Eddie and Benoit at XX, the two world champions at 21, the McMahons praying at 22, the dancing at 23, etc. NO backstage segments felt like something was definitely missing.

Overall, though, good WrestleMania.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching a couple of matches yesterday

punk/jericho raw 2/3/13 ***1/2
ziggler/sheamus nwo ***3/4
angle/brock ss 03 ****

* I know what everyone is thinking I gave brock/angle a 5* a couple weeks ago. I was pissed drunk and I watched it this time sober and it was good just no where near the hbk/taker HIAC , cena/brock level


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Rock/Cena II is unbelievably close to a DUD for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ah yes, Sheamus vs Dolph is quite the bit of fun to watch. Think they've exhausted all of their worth vs one another thanks to WWE doing it so many times last year, but its a good series of matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@ Cody theses two actually have exceptional chemistry, They have this, main event, and I remember a pretty good one on raw and sd also. Very fun matches and ziggles can take a brogue kick like a champ. Just another example of match losing its luster after having the same one week in and week out

I pimp their main event from earlier this year as well and best of their series


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

To get that taste of Brock/HHH (ER) out of my mouth, think im going to give one of my all time fave WWF matches a watch in abit - HBK/Bulldog (KOTR 1996). Now that is fucking awesome :cheer:cheer


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

idk which I'd state as their best. I'd have to run through the bulk to pick and choose. I know I like most of 'em. Not their fault they've pretty much ran out on what to do. That's the companies for having it so frequent. Do think they wrestled up to ten times last year. That's A LOT despite what it may sound to some.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

no love for brock/hhh zep, I read you didnt like the sell by Brock ? I think that what saved the match from being another dud like mania


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Fuck, Rock-Lesnar (Summerslam) is so enjoyable. ****1/4 - MOTN and above Hunter-Shawn's street fight earlier.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd take Brock vs Trips over Michaels vs Smith by quite a margin, haha.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I hate that they do that to ziggler more than anybody else maybe besides barrett or sheamus himself. He has the very good matches with del rio and sheamus but they just run him out there with those two every week it seems like and it gets stale


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont remember hbk/bulldog from kotr that well, I remember their UK one being better

Edit: sorry for double post delete plz


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> no love for brock/hhh zep, I read you didnt like the sell by Brock ? I think that what saved the match from being another dud like mania


Yeah brock's actual selling was great as always, but IMHO he should never be in such a position like that. That is my problem, not the actual selling itself, the fact that it had to happen like that in the first place, dominate the last 3/4 of the match, make Brock look weak, practically asking Heyman for help, Trips just had to go that way didnt he.

**refrains from going off on one again** 

EDIT - I just cant deal with that UK One Night Only PPV one, the whole story with HBK winning the belt etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never cared much for any of the Dolph vs Del Rio matches, personally. I get your point though.

WWE does the same for most guys. Like I need to see Orton vs Barrett matches all the time. Those were the worst. Now its Orton vs Cesaro. Which aren't much of an improvement. Sleep inducing.


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Both the Rock/Cena WM matches are matches I will likely never watch again. Haven't watched Orton/Triple H WM25 since it happened, can't force myself to watch it after the disappointment I had coming out of it. I have a mate who tells me to watch it again but nah, can't force myself too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I LOVE the main event and the Jan smackdown ( not to such but I this its this one) of dolph ziggler/del rio series. I pimp those out and believe the main event one is in the top 5 matches of this year


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can watch Cena-Rock for the sheer joy of Cena stopping his own people's elbow attempt with a smile on his face, & also Cena getting his redemption and ending Rock's shitty reign that had no business happening in the first place.

Kane/Big Show Vs Batista/REY from Armageddon 2005 is really fucking good for the time it lasted. You constantly believe that Rey is in trouble in there while Batista plays a great role as the warrior who is going to explode onto the scene despite being picked apart several times by the larger duo. This PPV up to this point has actually been pretty good, nothing classic but pretty good. Hardy/JBL was really good, Mexicools Vs MNM was really good, Benoit-Booker was okay, & JUICE Vs Kid Kash was okay.

Time for Orton & Taker in the cell. After watching Tim White kill himself again of course.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

only thing about cena/rock is the atmosphere thats it 

which if I can rant abit Im so tired of wwe always dubbing things NY-NJ or just 20 mins outside of NY can my home state ever get love :lol


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Batista & Rey vs. Show & Kane (Armageddon 2006) - I can comprehend with this being "good", Rey is clearly the MVP of the match with his usual GRADE A babyface performance. Show & Kane play the calculating heels, who don't get suckered in, like most monsters do. Batista (as stated before) portrayed the role of a defending giant, wanting to protect his land (SD) and his not as powerful companion (Rey).

I LOVE IT, SHOULD OF GOT MORE TIME THOUGH. ***3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I saw the talk of Lesnar/HHH and figured I may as well throw some stars out since in the past week I've (somehow) managed to re-watch both their SS and ER matches. Duke and Zep echo my thoughts.

SS: ***
WM29: *
ER: **1/2

So the matches stay where they were. 

On Rock/Cena:

WM28- ***1/2
WM29- **

The WM28 match between 'em was a very well done main event that while it still had at least a couple of matches above it at that Mania, it still was far from bad. Great one there and satisfying ending.

WM29 was a true finisher fest though. It felt like half the match was devoted to that. They had Cena kick out of a People's Elbow and three Rock-Bottoms, and Rock kick out of two AA's and a Rock-Bottom. Cena looked Taker-esque at this Mania... HOLY SHIT MAYBE IT'S A SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE WE'RE GETTING TAKER/CENA WM30!!!! :mark:

But outside of speculation, while the crowd was there and the atmosphere was cool, especially being there live for it (until the end and the aftermath), the match was pretty poor and Rock's worst match since his return.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock had literally one match that wasn't bad since his return, & that was the Wrestlemania XXVIII match with John Cena that you only need to watch once. His performance against CM Punk in the Rumble match is arguably the worst single match performance of the last 10 years, while he managed to put together another pair of the worst PPV main events I've seen in some time w/ EC Vs Punk & WM Vs Cena. I truly do believe in my heart that Rock Vs Bryan/Brock/Taker (Three of the best talents in the WWE right now when it comes to in-ring work, Punk and Cena make up the top 5 of course) would be abysmal as well somehow due to Rock's incompetence from bell to bell. He's slow, plodding, can't work a transition to save his life, has some of the worst conditioning I've ever seen yet gets 20+ minutes on every single PPV he competes in, and the matches he has had seem to go from awful heel control segment (due to Rock's inability to cooperate) straight to terrible finisher fest.

You could blame it on Rock (as I do), but a portion of this perhaps falls into the backstage agents going out there and planning the matches. Rock's never there so they can't really demonstrate or practice anything except for pre-show, and they're the ones who orchestrate shit like how many minutes the match is going to go on.

Anyways, I have my top TWENTY FIVE BROCK LESNAR MATCHES (whittled 31 down to 25 ) in the wings as well as my 2005 WWE PPV YEAR IN REVIEW coming up very, very shortly. This should be GOOD SHIT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It feels like we talk about hhh/lesnar everyday :lol

for cena/rock matches if you take both matches and put them on otl their barely **, however I believe the 28 was better from a wresting standpoint than 29 and you were interested in seeing who gonna win.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

True. 

I was fucking losing it during Rock/Cena II because I thought that Vince would rub Rock's shaft some more and give him another Wrestlemania main event victory, which made the CENA victory 10x sweeter. Pretty sure that I might have my reactions during the match on video somewhere. Maybe. My friends who were watching it with me who don't even watch wrestling thought that it was complete trash and one of the most boring matches they have ever seen (which isn't many). They were MEH on Hunter-Brock & ADORED Punk-Taker though.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Brock vs. Hunter SummerSlam is definitely the weakest of the series. Honestly they didn't do a lot. The arm and the stomach injuries were literally all the match had, not to mention it was slow as anything.

Mania and Extreme Rules are both leagues better and plays out far more involved stories.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> True.
> 
> I was fucking losing it during Rock/Cena II because I thought that Vince would rub Rock's shaft some more and give him another Wrestlemania main event victory, which made the CENA victory 10x sweeter. *Pretty sure that I might have my reactions during the match on video somewhere*. Maybe. My friends who were watching it with me who don't even watch wrestling thought that it was complete trash and one of the most boring matches they have ever seen (which isn't many). They were MEH on Hunter-Brock & ADORED Punk-Taker though.


:lmao:lmao:lmao

Unless punk/cena is unworldly and taker goes on to wreste another 4 yrs which is unlikely, Punk/Taker in a couple of years will be remember as right behind only the Shawn's and hhh hiac (imo) streak matches. They really stole the show from the live performance to punk mocking taker to the final tombstone a work of art and should have been the main event

Im interested in seeing 2-25 on the Brock list, Im pretty sure of #1 :cena :brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> Brock vs. Hunter SummerSlam is definitely the weakest of the series. Honestly they didn't do a lot. The arm and the stomach injuries were literally all the match had, not to mention it was slow as anything.
> 
> Mania and Extreme Rules are both leagues better and plays out far more involved stories.


(Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I really have to watch summerslam again, I have it as their best encounter but day after day ppl just shit on it, its leagues ahead of mania and a little better than extreme rules


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Why was it good?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fear The Fury - BROCK LESNAR'S Top 25 Matches Ever (25-21)


25. _Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Royal Rumble 2003)_










(Shit quality pic. B-Rawk doesn't really give a fuck.)

I've openly come out and said that Brock is Big Show's best opponent, with this Rumble match being one of the less pimped matches out there that I like to throw in people's faces whenever they doubt this claim. What we have here is vintage Brock Vs Big Show; they beat the piss out of each other, Brock summons some sort of herculian strength to overcome the over 500 pound mammoth to win the match, & in between we get a series of beatdowns w/ the occasional Heyman shenanigans thrown in as well. This was short but sweet, with Brock coming out and hitting all of his big shit fast and picking up the win to move on to the Rumble match, great way to start shit off for sure.

**** 1/4*


24. _Brock Lesnar Vs Akebono (NJPW 3/19/2006)_










(& he actually got him up for the F-5/verdict. More impressive than the shark.)

Here is an interesting case of Brock's dynamic ability to be thrust into any role & still turn it into a good match. The idea here is that Brock is the heel but still the underdog against Akebono due to Akebono's FATTINESS, & to his credit Brock still puts on a hell of a performance that revolves around the idea that he can't deliver the verdict to a supposed 4 billion tonne fatass like Akebono. It works well and the finish of the match although completely out of the blue makes a ton of sense in the grand scheme of things. Brock played a heel working from the bottom while the fans don't want any of it, what's to hate about that?

**** 1/4*


23. _Brock Lesnar Vs Ric Flair (RAW 7/1/2002)_










(It's a well known fact that Brock Lesnar provokes feelings of intense anal bleeding in his opponents)

This is a little bit of bias on my side since Brock is one of my all time performers as well as Flair, who I consider to be the greatest professional wrestler to ever live, but there's no denying that in the time they were given they were able to orchestrate one of the funnest matches of 2002. Flair pulls all the tricks out of the bag to slow down Lesnar but Lesnar is having none of it & proceeds to effectively squash Ric like a bug. Brock's squashes were some of the best ever and it's sad that not many of them will make the list due to them being squash matches, but this semi squash is definitely one to check out for sure. Flair's selling is great, Lesnar's offense is godly, & yeah.

**** 1/4*


22. _Brock Lesnar Vs Manabu Nakanishi (NJPW 12/10/2005)_










(Can't find a picture of the match, so here's a picture of BROCK IN STYLE.)

Speaking of awesome BROCK squashes, here's a match from Brock's tour in Japan against Manabu Nakanishi which has a runtime of a little less than five minutes but manages to fit a full control segment/babyface comeback in that time frame. I also forgot to mention that this is less of a squash and more of a mercy killing from Brock as he completely dismantles Nakanishi limb from limb before delivering the verdict. It's one of those matches where if you're a fan of Brock's squash work (who isn't?), you'll really enjoy it as Nakanishi plays his part as the babyface with a ton of heart and soul for the time being.

**** 1/4*


21. _Brock Lesnar Vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)_










((Duuuuuude, where's my lungs?)

RVD can get a little shitty most of the time, but when it came to his matches with Brock it seemed as if it was Brock's first run at actual wrestling and not just squash after squash after squash. What made the RVD-Brock connection work was the idea of how RVD based his offense around capitalizing on Brock's mistakes with stiff kicks and such, whereas Brock would just catch RVD and systematically slaughter him live on PPV. The high flying Vs The beast dynamic worked well in their trio of matches, but was the most effective in the Vengeance matchup which actually gave us a glimpse of Brock looking mortal, if only for a brief second.

**** 1/4*


​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*it had a "big fight feel"
*brocks selling of the stomach was suburb 
* both got good offense in
* brock won
* it didnt seem to be the typical match kinda dragged HHH match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Manabu Nakanishi making a best of list and its one where he was destroyed in five minutes.

Sounds about right.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

So the ending of Smackdown put a smile on my face and not even a souless Ginger would be able to not raise a smile to the entire sequence. T'was glorious. Nay, tickety boo.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What happened?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Bret Hart vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin (WWF) – Survivor Series 1996​*









Video Link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TipWX54E-5w

It's been quite the period of "while" (translating into years, ) since i've watched this specific encounter of the Austin-Bret series, It's long overdue, I know, especially considering how much i loved this match on initial watching. Enough jibba, jabba. Let us commence with the judging. 

It's mentally and literally mind-fucking that these two have chemistry that can be compared to those of Flair-Steamboat & Shawn-Undie. Even on some *rare* days, When my inner self gets transfused with the lovable style of brawling and actual fight feeling. It jumps above those two in ranking.

I'm still rambling. On to the match, The story within the match and build is about Austin not respecting Bret, and Bret wanting to defeat and prove to this upcomer that he IS one to be respected upon. The opening sequence of reversals is quite riveting in the sense that they're trying to grasp the pull of each others weight to garner some experience to make the latter moments/segments in the match, all more compelling/riveting than the former sequences. Even with the exclusion of this point, Austin is attempting to debunk Bret's "facts" (Not sure how true they are, more so in today's terms ) of him having the inability to hang (in wrestling sense) with Bret's own egoistical self, It's simple but the sensing it makes, exerts the non-creativity. In actual action, Austin gets and understands the ass handing he endured by trying to play the mat game, The low blow says it all and signifies the shifting between styles. Storytelling 101 here, Once again, basic but effective. Austin is better at brawling and inflicting a fight than a pure wrestling match, So why not redirect the style in progression to your favor. The booking of this match is of non-discreditful fashion to both Austin & Bret's credibility status, Both competitors looked amazing in their respective outcomes. However, Enough about the jizzical-induced doings this match produced. This match definitely has some prevalent problems, such as the preliminary arm infliction that was initiated by Bret within the early goings of the match, not leading to anything further, Only reason (I feel) for targeting of a specific body part is because it works well with opening matches of Bret-Austin's caliber and appetizer-esqiue for the crowd, early on. Also, The mat work while playing into the story, was forgotten about by both in quick fashion. 

The ending is a beauty though. Austin gets caught up in making Bret submit and allows his stubborn, ask questions later attitude, to be put ahead the better version of smart, sneaky, precise, Austin. He wants to be beat Bret at his own game, In this case, A submission finish. Brilliant storytelling, Austin's ego ends up screwing him, on his own well-planted win on The Hitman. This match ticks all the right boxes and if it wasn't for their Wrestlemania match, It would of gotten a lot more credit than it does within current time.
*
****1/2*​


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> What happened?


Ambrose/Orton was thrown out, Hell No descended to help out and Bryan ended up systematically destroying every Shield member in a glorious continuous sequence of offence from the ring to the floor and then ended with a thunderous crescendo of YES chants as he directed the crowd similar to the end of the tag match @ Mania.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FUCK :lmao I need to see this asap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh no SI. After hearing that apparently you're going to have to see multiple posts with this content:

_"Danielson buried The Shield."_

Unless that's only a complaint people like to reserve for John Cena.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> *it had a "big fight feel"


Did it?



> *brocks selling of the stomach was suburb


Yeah, it was pretty great.



> * both got good offense in


There were a lot of punches. Then Lesnar targeted Hunter's arm. Then Triple H targeted Lesnar's stomach. Then the match was over. 'Good' isn't what I would use to describe either man's offense. It was passable as in logically it made sense, but it wasn't exciting.

Well, Brock removing the gloves were exciting, but aside from that.



> * brock won


uh huh




> * it didnt seem to be the typical match kinda dragged HHH match


It was. The match had more downtime that Trips/Undertaker 27. At least there, they were going down after huge bombs, while here it started out that way and remained so for the entire duration.

The match was like 18 - 19 minutes, and it genuinely felt 30-ish to me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wasn't crazy for their SummerSlam match, yet that one flew on by for me on the first watch. Whereas the two I liked more that followed felt WAY longer than their actual length on the first watch.

Useless info. Chiming in how I felt even their weakest match didn't drag.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Oh no SI. After hearing that apparently you're going to have to see multiple posts with this content:
> 
> _"Danielson buried The Shield."_
> 
> Unless that's only a complaint people like to reserve for John Cena.


It boggles my mind how anyone can argue they've been buried. Its like some people just never want to see the more interesting characters threatened. For the most part WWE has booked and teased The Shield being overthrown and sent packing in numerous segments to build tension before ultimately having them win and overcome their foes. Given the string of matches on TV & PPV the last few weeks where The Shield have gone over repeatedly you'd think fans could allow the babyfaces to get a semblance of retribution in one episode of Smackdown.

Whilst you have to make heels look strong you have to critically balance that against making babyfaces look weak and pathetic if they continually get beaten and don't get retribution in some form. Given how many losses Hell No have suffered in The Shield program its imperative to give them some heat on The Shield wherever possible to keep the program bubbling.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is SD posted anywhere yet? I want to see Danielson destroy everyone.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> I wasn't crazy for their SummerSlam match, yet that one flew on by for me on the first watch. Whereas the two I liked more that followed felt WAY longer than their actual length on the first watch.
> 
> Useless info. Chiming in how I felt even their weakest match didn't drag.


I have to say, their WM match did feel like an hour or more when i first watched it.

Also, ive yet to watch any of Brock's Japan run, something i need to do ASAP by the sounds of it (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is SD posted anywhere yet? I want to see Danielson destroy everyone.


http://www.putlocker.com/file/67782984F1D87892#

International Version. Has Rollins/Kane, Bryan/Reigns, Jericho/Rhodes & Orton/Ambrose and the post match brawl/Bryan masterclass.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> It boggles my mind how anyone can argue they've been buried. Its like some people just never want to see the more interesting characters threatened. For the most part WWE has booked and teased The Shield being overthrown and sent packing in numerous segments to build tension before ultimately having them win and overcome their foes. Given the string of matches on TV & PPV the last few weeks where The Shield have gone over repeatedly you'd think fans could allow the babyfaces to get a semblance of retribution in one episode of Smackdown.
> 
> Whilst you have to make heels look strong you have to critically balance that against making babyfaces look weak and pathetic if they continually get beaten and don't get retribution in some form. Given how many losses Hell No have suffered in The Shield program its imperative to give them some heat on The Shield wherever possible to keep the program bubbling.


I'll wait for the reactions. b/c I didn't even expect to see any about Cena with the elimination tag match, yet I come on here and apparently The Shield's careers are over. How can someone think in such a drastic manner? Heels can't dominate EVERY aspect of _every_ match/segment. There will be a point and time where the faces get the advantage. Show, Sheamus, & Orton did leading up towards WM - got no heat. Cena pins a member in a six man match and all hell breaks loose.

Lets hope the reaction for this moment seems to along the lines of your own, pardon the personal approval of Danielson being the man in the situation. Embrace the joy of a red hot babyface having his vindication by demolishing his rivals that has caused him so much trauma as of late. I see no qualms with that booking. Like you stated, it keeps things fresh & interesting for the next week.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> http://www.putlocker.com/file/67782984F1D87892#
> 
> International Version. Has Rollins/Kane, Bryan/Reigns, Jericho/Rhodes & Orton/Ambrose and the post match brawl/Bryan masterclass.


:hb<3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> I have to say, their WM match did feel like an hour or more when i first watched it.
> 
> Also, ive yet to watch any of Brock's Japan run, something i need to do ASAP by the sounds of it (Y)


By no means was this a negative for me though. It just felt like a very long affair. Longer than near 24 minutes that is.



WOOLCOCK said:


> http://www.putlocker.com/file/67782984F1D87892#
> 
> International Version. Has Rollins/Kane, Bryan/Reigns, Jericho/Rhodes & Orton/Ambrose and the post match brawl/Bryan masterclass.


holy crap that all happens on Smackdown? WOW @ Danielson vs Reigns.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Um, the point wasn't that the other matches were pacy. They had more content while SS didn't.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was nothing more than a comment on conceptual irony. Appears I wasn't the only one who felt that way either.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched summerslam again and its a **** best of the series

- except for a few mins it didn't seem like it dragged to me
- brock taking off the gloves :mark:
- I like how the match is structured Brock destroys hhh,hhh finds his weakest and then the finish
- Heyman antics are gold as usual
- he remember actually think Brock hurt his stomach
- I like how they made it seem like this was a dangerous match, Brock could do think he couldnt do in ufc


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> I'll wait for the reactions. b/c I didn't even expect to see any about Cena with the elimination tag match, yet I come on here and apparently The Shield's careers are over. How can someone think in such a drastic manner? Heels can't dominate EVERY aspect of _every_ match/segment. There will be a point and time where the faces get the advantage. Show, Sheamus, & Orton did leading up towards WM - got no heat. Cena pins a member in a six man match and all hell breaks loose.
> 
> Lets hope the reaction for this moment seems to along the lines of your own, pardon the personal approval of Danielson being the man in the situation. Embrace the joy of a red hot babyface having his vindication by demolishing his rivals that has caused him so much trauma as of late. I see no qualms with that booking. Like you stated, it keeps things fresh & interesting for the next week.


Aye, people seem to be unable to think of the greater context and how their favourites can't possibly dominate every segment, match and brawl. At the end of the day you have to create drama through intriguing chracters and then book them in scenarios to accentuate that tension and build hype for a match. If The Shield just win every match and segment to boot then its hard for the audience to become wrapped up in the chase of who can finally beat them, whereas generally booking The Shield to stand tall in most segments whilst being succeptible to the odd beating and retreat gives the babyfaces that small hint of promise.



Obfuscation said:


> holy crap that all happens on Smackdown? WOW @ Danielson vs Reigns.


Yeah the opening two singles matches are back to back. Reigns/Bryan was pretty nifty tbf. Reigns had some great explosive offence and looked fluid in every strike and bump and Bryan had some interesting setups and counters for his offence. Also busted out a great submission to tie Reigns' legs up and then deliver stiff forearms square in the face with Reigns unable to escape. Finish was also very well done and capped off with a glorious Reigns expression post match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Aye, people seem to be unable to think of the greater context and how their favourites can't possibly dominate every segment, match and brawl. At the end of the day you have to create drama through intriguing chracters and then book them in scenarios to accentuate that tension and build hype for a match. If The Shield just win every match and segment to boot then its hard for the audience to become wrapped up in the chase of who can finally beat them, whereas generally booking The Shield to stand tall in most segments whilst being succeptible to the odd beating and retreat gives the babyfaces that small hint of promise.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the opening two singles matches are back to back. Reigns/Bryan was pretty nifty tbf. Reigns had some great explosive offence and looked fluid in every strike and bump and Bryan had some interesting setups and counters for his offence. Also busted out a great submission to tie Reigns' legs up and then deliver stiff forearms square in the face with Reigns unable to escape. Finish was also very well done and capped off with a glorious Reigns expression post match.


That is exactly why I felt the way the company booked the six man match was fine. Well done even. Cena & Hell No weren't having their first rodeo with The Shield. The managed to capatalize this time around and get a definitive elimination once Cena pinned Rollins. Dean was alone, decided to panic, and the group said to hell with the match and beat down Cena. They left looking strong and the faces manages to nudge that much closer to defeating the group. Where is the harm in that? Nowhere, in my personal opinion.

:mark:

def watching Smackdown tonight. btw, how were the other matches? I like Ambrose, but naturally I'm lukewarm to his opponent being Orton in this current state.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Didn't watch Orton/Ambrose tbh. I just had eternal apathy the minute they locked up and skipped to the Bryan run in.

Kane/Rollins was pretty basic and plodding tbh, very little of note and definitely more a precursor to Bryan/Reigns.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Too bad. Their match on Main Event was solid so it isn't like I haven't gotten to see it before.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

So what'd you guys think of my Bret-Austin review. I don't mean to sound like an attention seeker or a conversation breaker (SD talk) or anything like that, Some constructive criticism would be nice though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Too bad. Their match on Main Event was solid so it isn't like I haven't gotten to see it before.


You might enjoy it more than I tbh. Rollins worked on Kane's leg briefly but there was no real pace or bite to it and it felt very much as if Bryan/Reigns was given more room to sufficiently eclipse it. Rollins had a nice tornado DDT counter and a backflip out of a headlock but otherwise it was pretty tepid.

Would have watched the Orton match but some paint took my fancy instead.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Would have watched the Orton match but some paint took my fancy instead.


:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> You might enjoy it more than I tbh. Rollins worked on Kane's leg briefly but there was no real pace or bite to it and it felt very much as if Bryan/Reigns was given more room to sufficiently eclipse it. Rollins had a nice tornado DDT counter and a backflip out of a headlock but otherwise it was pretty tepid.
> 
> Would have watched the Orton match but some paint took my fancy instead.


I could see myself getting a kick out of it if it has enough to earn a rise out of me. I've been devoted enough to both over the years to do so. I'll probably just want it to be over ASAP to see Danielson vs Reigns, tbhayley.

I'll watch Ambrose vs Orton. I'll get back to you on how it is. Only one Orton singles match I've liked this year. Dunno if it will be two after tonight.

Yeah, and the Orton slight was :hayden3


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

That ending of Smackdown. :mark: 

I'm happy for Bryan. Just fucking clean yourself up, man.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

anything will be better than that orton/cesaro ME


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

How about Orton/Barrett 8*D?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

About to watch SD now. Shall see if this soulless cunt (or whatever someone called me... bastards) does indeed smile or not at the end .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Counting up my 2005 PPV REWATCHINGS and realized I have 30 matches @ **** 1/2+*, which is a fucking shit ton compared to most years. GOD I loved this year, trying to decide whether I should go backwards and rewatch all of the 2004 PPVs or forward and watch 2006 in it's entirety. 

Either that or watching ORTON VS BARRETT: THE SERIES. (It's like a bad joke now)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Bryan was awesome on SD. Both in his match and at the end. RUN WITH IT, VINCE. FUCKING RUUUUUN WITH IT DAMMIT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is ziggles back ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Find it funny Brock's F5 was renamed to "The Verdict" whilst he was in Japan, considering the WWE lawsuit at the time


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Callamus said:


> So Bryan was awesome on SD. Both in his match and at the end. RUN WITH IT, VINCE. FUCKING RUUUUUN WITH IT DAMMIT.


Bryan has momentum? :vince2

Now we can use him to put over Del Rio! :vince5

(I swear to God this is what they always do)


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Another "Mr. Wrestlemania" Poll/Thread. Another Undie Win. Another HBK Fan Rage. Another Close Down. What's new? :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anything to do remotly with the abbreviation 'G.O.A.T', just back away lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> About to watch SD now. Shall see if this soulless cunt (or whatever someone called me... bastards) does indeed smile or not at the end .


*Soulless Ginger

I was considerate I'll have you know  .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal should have known that was easily implied to him. 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*first of all fluze ,my "few " comments in the 20 pg debate were solely my opinions and my only and I have no personal issue with anybody

*what happens in the wwe section stays in the wwe section
* I am not a mindless hbk rager by no means, and I do Not HIDE the fact that my favorite is hbk
* you gotta cool down with the taker love man you seem obsessive sometimes and you did red rep showstoppa for no reason
* towards the end you go alittle crazy though

Saying that move on and this is a different thread section so keep that hate down there


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When it comes to Mr. Wrestlemania, you have to consider three names; The Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, & Wade Barrett. When it comes to The Undertaker it seems as if he's putting on a show-changing performance year in and year out at Wrestlemania, with a streak of SEVEN consecutive four star matches (when you stop and really think about it, that's fucking amazing). Then you can factor in the Streak which is arguably the biggest Wrestlemania attraction year in and year out, and it seems like a no-brainer.

Shawn's Wrestlemania resume speaks for itself & I have no problem with anybody saying he's the guy because even though some of his matches are ridiculously overrated at Mania (IRONMAN), you also have to take into account his awesome Rocker's tags, the match with Vince, the epic match with John Cena that nobdoy seems to talk about, etc.

Then you have Wade Barrett; who could possibly forget his show stopping performance at Wrestlemania XXVII? The man has accomplished everything there is to accomplish on the grandest stage besides a final clash with Randy Orton that we're all clamoring for. Barrett just doesn't get enough love when it should be a no-brainer to put him in the discussion for greatest Wrestlemania performer.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I wasn't referring to you though, *******. Please do quote some of these "obsessive" comments, I'm no different from any other mark out there. I defend my fav when members bash him, That's pretty typical.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with Even my personally pick is HBK for reasons stated in that thread

I have not and probably never will red rep somebody because they share different views. That actually what I like most about this thread most of us all have different opinions on matches we like or hate, but we express our hatred or love for said match extremely well.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The reputation buttons are there for a reason, Unfortunately they're to be used only in caution, because some and just SOME members get too hurt when it is used against them.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching bret vs owen wm 10 :mark: :mark:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Greatest Opener of All Time? or is Rey-Angle better? :mark:, nonetheless.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker is definitely Mr WM for me. Compared both men on the CAL SCALE after watching + reviewing all WM events a while back. Undertaker had HBK beat while HBK was still active AND including HBK's tag matches before his singles career too .

The Rockers Vs The Twin Towers - **- 0.5
The Rockers Vs The Orient Express - ***1/4 - 2
The Rockers Vs Haku & Barbarian - *** - 2
El Matador Vs Shawn Michaels - **1/2 - 1
Shawn Michaels Vs Tatanka - ** - 0.5
Razor Ramon Vs Shawn Michaels - **** - 5
Diesel Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2 - 3
Bret Hart Vs Shawn Michaels - *1/2 - 0.5
Shawn Michaels Vs Steve Austin - **3/4 - 1
Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho - ****1/4 - 6
Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/2 - 7
Shawn Michaels Vs Vince McMahon - *** - 2
Shawn Michaels Vs John Cena - **** - 5
Shawn Michaels Vs Ric Flair - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - 9
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - 9 + GOAT WM Match - 2 = 11

Overall - 58.5
Just Singles - 54

The Undertaker Vs Jimmy Snuka - * - 0
The Undertaker Vs Jake Roberts - ** - 0.5
The Undertaker Vs The Giant Gonzalez - 3/4* - 0
The Undertaker Vs King Kong Bundy - 1/2* - 0
The Undertaker Vs Diesel - ***3/4 - 4
The Undertaker Vs Sid - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Kane - **** - 5
The Undertaker Vs The Big Bossman - DUD - 0
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****1/4 - 6
The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - ****1/4 - 6
The Undertaker Vs The Big Show & A-Train - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Kane - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/4 - 6
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Batista - ****1/2 - 7
The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/2 - 7
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - 9
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - 9 + GOAT WM Match - 2 = 11
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4 - 8
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4 - 8
The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - ****1/4 - 6

Overall - 87.5
While HBK Was Still Active - 65.5

HBK - 58.5
Undertaker - 87.5


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Bossman match should equal minus 20 points atleast :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker vs Big Boss Man is a ★★★★★ match. (lol)



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Then you have Wade Barrett; who could possibly forget his show stopping performance at Wrestlemania XXVII? The man has accomplished everything there is to accomplish on the grandest stage besides a final clash with Randy Orton that we're all clamoring for. Barrett just doesn't get enough love when it should be a no-brainer to put him in the discussion for greatest Wrestlemania performer.


You're such a goof. :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Skimmed through that Mr. Wrestlemania thread, absolutely made me :lmao

Taker or HBK can claim that title. HBK isn't undisputably Mr. Wrestlemania based on match quality because Taker has arguably had just as many awesome matches/classics, and vice-versa. Obviously there's going to be some raging about Taker having more votes than HBK (on a poll on the internet which has under 200 votes... lol), but it is what it is. Anything that has to do with "GOAT" in anything turns into shit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

it did get a little out of hand. Cal thast the highest Ive ever seen flair/taker rated, does anybody else share this rating ? i have it that ***1/2 from last watch


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I have it as MOTN and **** in rating.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's worth **** alone just for ARN

:arn


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

arn was great in it lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Same here i think, at least  for Flair/Taker.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hm... I wonder how the cal scale would favor Taker/HBK based on my ratings, though I can't comment on anything pre-Razor for HBK, and my ratings for the first few Taker matches are up in the air for the most part and I have nothing set for them... so I'll just take the 10 best from each:

HBK:

Razor Ramon Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/4 (MOTN)
Diesel Vs Shawn Michaels - *** (probably MOTN)
Shawn Michaels Vs Steve Austin - ***1/2 
Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho - ****1/2 (MOTN)
Shawn Michaels Vs Triple H Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4
Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4 (MOTN)
Shawn Michaels Vs John Cena - **** 
Shawn Michaels Vs Ric Flair - ***3/4
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (GOAT Match)
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2 (MOTN)


The Undertaker Vs Kane - **** (MOTN)
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ***3/4
The Undertaker Vs Ric Flair - **** (MOTN)
The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/4
The Undertaker Vs Batista - ****1/2 (MOTY)
The Undertaker Vs Edge - ****1/4 (MOTN)
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (GOAT Match)
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ****1/2 (MOTY)
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****
The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - ****1/2 (MOTY so far)

Someone who knows the criteria for the Cal scale can figure it out for me... if you want. But here are the average STARZ:

HBK= 4.1
Taker= 4.275


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

No mention for Benoit/HHH/HBK?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hm, knew I was forgetting something, lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Im get some fresh air but Ill share mine

the important match not duds

hbk
vs diesel ***1/4
vs bret ***3/4
vs austin ***1/2
vs Jericho ****1/2
vs hhh/benoit ****1/4
vs angle ****1/4
vs vince N/A
vs cena ****3/4 (best title match in mania history)
vs flair ****1/2
vs taker ****3/4
vs taker *****

Undertaker
vs kane ***1
vs hunter #1 **3/4
vs flair ***1/2
vs orton ****
vs batista ****1/2
vs edge **
vs hbk ****3/4
vs hunter #2 ****1/2
vs hunter #3 *****

not the best in math but
HBK-38
Taker- 32.25


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

DUD for Mania 24?

FUCK.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Edge WM24 a DUD?

Okay...

Edit: Also, you not seen Taker/Punk yet?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> vs edge DUD












Erm, what?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao now there's something I haven't seen. Kudos.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> vs edge DUD


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha im sorry guys, I HATE that much, is stated before the god awful first 15 mins are just to much for me to overcome. I cannot stand edge. I may have been to harsh with the dud but you can see where I'm coming from

Edit: Ive tried so hard to like it but I cannot, just can never get into it. I do adore their HIAC match though


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> but you can see where I'm coming from


Nope, sorry bud. Your'e alone on this one.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

A DUD though? So that means everything that followed those "awful 15 minutes" were just as bad?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Nope, sorry bud. Your'e alone on this one.


I can tell, Ive tried so hard to enjoy this match, have watched it twice on the streak dvd on netflix alone but I cannot. I dont have that good of an attention span and it just felt like this match went on for 2 hours before it got watchable and when it did it wasnt that great to me

Edit: @gamblor it wasnt a DUD like punk/rock rumble, I got ahead of myself. After the dreadfully 15 mins it was ok at best for me so combining the two halves it was like a ** for me

I knew I forgot something Punk/taker ****1/2. Saying that its hard to compare both hbk/taker at this point because taker is still going and Mr.Wrestlemania is more than match quality but that besides the point


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Im get some fresh air but Ill share mine
> 
> the important match not duds
> 
> ...


add the missing matches and recalculated it 
hbk- 45.5
Taker-43.5


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Okay, guys. Think I'm staying in tonight and need something to watch. 

Bring the suggestions. WCW or WWF/E only, please.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

for x amount of years I've thought Edge/Taker was one of the most overrated matches in recent memory, and I'd say Edge is the possibly the most overrated wrestler of all time. Not even I'D call that match a dud.

I'd find it hard to rate "Mr. WrestleMania" based on strictly how good the matches were. Yeah, Michaels/Jericho is pretty good and Michaels/HHH/Benoit is pretty DAMN good, but they're Jericho and Benoit carry jobs respectively. That's hardly a big positive in Shawn's favour since he was actually kind of sucky in them. The Michaels/HHH portions of the three way when Benoit was taken out near the announce table are total fast-forward material.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Okay, guys. Think I'm staying in tonight and need something to watch.
> 
> Bring the suggestions. WCW or WWF/E only, please.


Great American Bash '96

WATCH IT


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> The Michaels/HHH portions of the three way when Benoit was taken out near the announce table are total fast-forward material.


The best part of that was when Shawn was bloody and entered the ring then pointed at HHH as if he was saying "Now it's between you and me". Thankfully, Benoit came back in as he's the guy who makes this a classic. I wouldn't say that portion is FF material either. I always find myself anticipating the Pedigree/SCM (forgot who is pinning who) which Benoit runs in to break up. Makes absolutely no sense when JR's like "Where the hell did Benoit come from?" even though he was laid out right in front of him, though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Great American Bash '96
> 
> WATCH IT


(Y) And it's on YouTube. I'll start it following Smackdown, though Del Rio/Langston for the 4th time in 2 weeks may make me start sooner.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

wcw suggestion? well i started with 1991 PPV's. and its been great so far.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Barrett vs. Sheamus, Main Event was awesome. Only wish the arm had come into play a bit more but I guess that's not what they were going for, but Barrett's offence is pretty fun to watch (maybe because we don't see it that often? At least I don't) and the finish is great.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Just watched SD, Bryan is so fucking over. The perfect blend of popularity and wrestling, Now they only have to push him.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN

they'll probably ruin him


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Marc Mero (In Your House: Beware of the Dog) ****3/4* - Austin match was better though, Still really good nonetheless.

CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio (Over The Limit 2010) *****1/4* - My favorite in their series, The blood busting of Punk only added to the hatred expression, rather than dragging it down.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

You guys fucking suck. Oh and Yes, Bryan was as over as a fucker in the depths, latest SD episode says it all.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

PPV of the year for 06? Need to start off my summer right


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

No Mercy and Backlash. I also have a soft spot for Judgement Day, No Way Out, Mania (especially) & Vengeance.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> PPV of the year for 06? Need to start off my summer right


No Way Out has an awesome trio of main event matches. But Judgment Day, No Mercy, Unforgiven and Backlash are all pretty good too.

Then there are some _horrible_ PPVs that year had, specially the trio of Cyber Sunday, Survivor Series and December 2 Dismember, all of which followed each other within a month.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What's the Rey/JBL Judgement Day 06 like? I can't recall every seeing it but it sounds great on paper.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Fucking awesome, I had it at ****3/4, but then went down to ****1/4. Nontheless, It's still awesome, mainly because of the portrayed story of Rey attempting to avenge his deceased companion (Eddie) against JBL, who played the performance of a bully who spits in the face of the champion and his friends/family. Rey's Wife was at ringside too, and his heel antics against her were gold, She sold it well in facial sense.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Is it wrong that i have Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid from 1983 at *****? It may be a reminiscent style to those of a spotfest, but it was revolutionary for the time it happened in.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I watched the rey/punk series from 2010 a couple a weeks ago and I have their extreme rules better than otl

Im on a superstars hunt any good recs for some superstars gems from 10-11 ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> What's the Rey/JBL Judgement Day 06 like? I can't recall every seeing it but it sounds great on paper.


Good. A great performance by JBL as a heel and Mysterio's babyface work is on point per usual. It isn't as stellar as it potentially could've been, imo, but plenty good and worth a watch all around. I liked their match from No Mercy '05 more, personally.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I fell asleep watching GAB 1996 last night, but not before seeing Rey Mysterio Jr./Dean Malenko. Knowing that the main event was Lex Luger/Giant, I'd say this was the best match on the card, with competition only from Sting/Regal.

Not sure why I was told to watch this, as it's not a very interesting show, save for Rey/Malenko. I did come out of it with this: Now I really want to see Malenko vs. Daniel Bryan. IMAGINE THAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Sullivan is the cat's pajamas. That and Sting vs Regal > Mysterio vs Malenko. Only b/c Dean's wear down segment should have focused elsewhere.

iirc Giant vs Luger was actually pretty good too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Malenko performs his moves very crisply and moves very fluidly but other than that I think he's a very standard worker at best. In terms of dream Danielson matches, he wouldn't even be considered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson would make the most out of it. Dean is pretty prime with the right opponent considering he's got the crisp tools to work with. I do love some matches of his vs La Parka, Norman Smiley, & Scott Taylor.

Dean is along the lines of Bret Hart though. You know good in the ring; albeit with _(sometimes)_ little emotion put forth.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh shit, I forgot his match against Scotty at Backlash 00. Loved that. I hear a lot about a 2/3 falls match with Eddie in ECW, some even say it's the best match in company history, but I've never really cared to watch it. I'll get to it, eventually.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Rather tremendous bout, if I say so myself. (@Backlash '00)

the two out of three falls match is fine. I wasn't die-hard for it on the last watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I fell asleep watching GAB 1996 last night, but not before seeing Rey Mysterio Jr./Dean Malenko. Knowing that the main event was Lex Luger/Giant, I'd say this was the best match on the card, with competition only from Sting/Regal.
> 
> Not sure why I was told to watch this, as it's not a very interesting show, save for Rey/Malenko. I did come out of it with this: Now I really want to see Malenko vs. Daniel Bryan. IMAGINE THAT.


You're clearly lying to me. Benoit/Sullivan, Malenko/Mysterio, Horsemen vs. NFL, & Sting/Regal are all varying levels of good shit. Main event is certainly watchable as well, but hey, to each their own my friend.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

STING/REGAL from GAB 96 is fucking awesome. He (Sting) hasn't had a match that good since.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're clearly lying to me. Benoit/Sullivan, Malenko/Mysterio, Horsemen vs. NFL, & Sting/Regal are all varying levels of good shit. Main event is certainly watchable as well, but hey, to each their own my friend.


I had a hard time enjoying Benoit/Sullivan because most of it was spent in the bathroom, once they got back to the ring though, some good stuff happened. It's weird because now these days, a superplex is never used to finish a match. 

Like I said, I fell asleep during Sting/Regal, so I'll go back and start there and watch the final three matches (I guess there are only three more). 

I also think that not looking up the background to these matches hurt my viewing experience. NEED WWE VIDEO PACKAGES.

I'm certainly interested in checking more Steiner Brothers matches, though. It was weird seeing Scotty long hair and a clean face and not trash talking like crazy. That should indicate how much 90s wrestling I watched.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Angle & Benoit vs. Edge & Rey vs. Los Guerreros (Survivor Series 2002) ***1/4

Btw, I just downloaded this week's SmackDown by mistake (it fucking happens). Is there anything worth watching?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan mounting and killing Reigns with elbows on SD =


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> STING/REGAL from GAB 96 is fucking awesome. He (Sting) hasn't had a match that good since.


Sting :agree:

Cal, i've sent you a PM with a quick question plz


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

iwatchwrestling said:


> come out of it with this: Now I really want to see Malenko vs. Daniel Bryan. IMAGINE THAT.



Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Mr Perfect
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Ricky Steamboat
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Randy Savage
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Bret Hart
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Owen Hart
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Ric Flair
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Kurt Angle
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs Chris Benoit
Imagine Daniel Bryan vs a brush handle! 
All fap fap fap!!



No Way Out is probably the best 2006 PPV. Kurt Angle should've been Taker's Mania opponent for WM22 imo. I can't remember No Mercy from that year unfortunately. Give Judgement Day and Backlash a watch and WWEECW One Night Stand.



I watched Eddie v Flair from KotR 02. This should've been a much better match than it turned out. Dirtiest player in the game vs Mr lyin', cheatin' and stealin'. Only *** as the finish is lousy. I can't for the life of remember why Bubba Ray Duddley helped Flair win. 


Also, randomly picked up some ECW Delta VHS tapes: House Party 96, A Matter of Respect 96 and Wrestlepalooza 97.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

(Duplicate post)


----------



## Mr Poifect (Apr 10, 2013)

Watched 2001 Invasion today, wasn't as bad a burying as I remembered, Kidman v X-Pac was decent and it was nice to see Sean O'Haire again.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> STING/REGAL from GAB 96 is fucking awesome. He (Sting) hasn't had a match that good since.


didn't you like the DDP match more? Other than the DDP match I do agree, though, and no matter how much Sting defending I vomit left and right that a was pretty much a total Regal match.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Don't you like Sting, Yeah?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, but that match was great almost ALLLL because of Regal. Regal was WCW's best guy in 96, imo. Sting was mostly a 'fun' wrestler between 95-98. Then he had like three awesome matches in 1999 and IDK what happened from there. I'm not sure how much 2000s Sting I've seen but it isn't a lot.  I like 89-94 Sting a whole bunch, though.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Same. Sting vs Vader :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sting/Vader is probably one of my ten favourite match-ups EVAH. If I had to pick ten matches to take to a desert island I'd consider the strap match and GAB 92 matches. One of them would make it, anyway. Both a million stars. So is the Starrcade 92 match. So is the Slamboree 94 match. So is the Fall Brawl 3-way (without the unecessary time-out finish and all that). MILLION BILLION STARS for all of them.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit, it's been so long since I've posted in here that I didn't even realize that Cal has changed his name!

Anyway, I'm not sure what I can bring to the discussion. The reason why I haven't posted in here for quite some time is because I've moved away from the WWE stuff for some time. I found this Sami Callihan pack on XWT and have been busy with it since.

Gotta get back to that Top Mania matches pack. The only match I've checked out from it thus far is Ramon/Jarrett which was pretty freaking fun.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

What should I review? Give me something at random!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8znpm9uXx8


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched NYR chamber again and boy does it hold up ****3/4 atm and if I watched it another couple of times it may go even higher. After watching im really in the 2005 mode


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

This should be interesting. :mark:

As I love both. Be back soon with a review.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

oh holy shit he found the Regal vs Psychosis match.

:clap


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

cbf reviewing now :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then don't acknowledge me till its over. 8*D

:hayley3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

the match or the review?

:hayley3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

*Great American Bash 1992 Review:* 

1) Opening Contest- Quarter-Final match in a tournament for the vacant NWA Tag titles: Nikita Koloff and Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat vs Jushin “Thunder” Liger and “Flyin” Brian Pillman

- Great way to open up a PPV. Some really great talents all in one ring. I finally remembered Steamboats tag partners name, Koloff. 

Anyway onto the match..

- Great tag team action. It features a "big" man wrestler working on the arm of FLYIN Brian Pillman, and some strategic wrestling by Steamboat aswell. This match goes for a total of 19:26 and I wasn't bored by one second of it. WCW really knew how to put on tag team classics on their PPV's

My rating: *** 3/4 - ****

Another rating I found that really sums it up well for me:



> Oh my god.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


2) Quarter-Final match in a tournament for the vacant NWA Tag titles: Hiroshi Hase and Shinya Hashimoto vs The Fabulous Freebirds (Jimmy Garvin and Michael Hayes)

My rating: ** 1/2 - ** 3/4

3) Quarter-Final match in a tournament for the vacant NWA Tag titles: Dustin Rhodes and Barry Windham vs “Stunning” Steve Austin and “Ravishing” Rick Rude (with Madusa)

Great review for this match by the same guy who reviewd the first one:



> And now we have the greatest of all time in his early days teaming with an underrated performer in Rude and they are up against two more underrated workers in the man known as Goldust here as Dustin Rhodes and Barry (I was so awesome in the 80′s) Windham.
> 
> Dustin Rhodes took it to Rude over and over.
> 
> ...


My rating: **** 1/4. Fucking LOVED this match. Great talents in the ring performing their asses off. Being a HUGE fan of Austin, it's great to see his early work. They all shined in this match and put on a spectacle.​
That's as far as I've got so far. 

I'll properly review the matches later on without the help of this other guy. :hayley3

This PPV has been excllent so far. Don't spoil it for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No detailed thoughts on HASHIMOTO?

(Y) @ digging Rhodes/Windham vs Dangerous Alliance. How could you not? Look who was involved. I guess that statement is best revised for the entire show. My god the talent pool in early 90's WCW. :homer


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

There not my thoughts. But I'm sure he/she had thoughts on that match too. I'll try and review the whole PPV soon.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Taker/Hunter (King of the Ring 2002)

Legit one of the worst main events of all time. Boring, overbooked, sloppy, facepalmworthy, boring, dull, boring, insulting. And so on. WHO BOOKED THIS SHIT?! And more important, WHY DID I WATCH IT?

*DUDUDUD*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone come across a site that may list Taker/Kane interactions for 97-99?


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

JoeRulz said:


> Taker/Hunter (King of the Ring 2002)
> 
> Legit one of the worst main events of all time. Boring, overbooked, sloppy, facepalmworthy, boring, dull, boring, insulting. And so on. WHO BOOKED THIS SHIT?! And more important, WHY DID I WATCH IT?
> 
> *DUDUDUD*


Hyperbole aside lol completely agreed. If I can be blunt, I damn near disliked everything Taker did from late 2000-2002. Although he did have some gems during that time for the most part he wasn't very good (especially in 2001... ugh.) That time off and MMA adoption did wonders for him.

_________________

*John Cena vs. King Booker vs. Big Show (11/5/2006)-***
-For a first ever meeting between the 3 brands World Champions this was disappointing. The match itself was competent but the finish was stupid; first half was pretty much Show dominating then the second half was basically a one on one match with Cena/Booker (boring) until the end where Show came in and dominated again. Finish comes when Kevin Federline interferes and distracts Cena so Booker gets the win. I know how brutal I am on WWE in 2006 so I won’t totally bury this match since Big Show was pretty much my only reason for caring here. One thing I will admit is the 3 referees holding each of the World Titles made for an awesome visual.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy9f4r_john-cena-vs-big-show-vs-booker-t_sport#.UaYSSdjm_-A

*Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy (10/3/2008)-****
-This is more like it, good solid triple threat match and TV main event. Again, you had all three brand’s World Champions represented here and they worked at a much faster pace then I remembered. All three guys for the most got a chance to get their shit in and whenever one guy was taken he wasn’t out of the match too long. Oh it had the obligatory Tower of Doom spot as well. Finish comes when Matt closes in on Jericho but Triple H hits a surprise Pedigree on him for win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9TUG3EsJ2s


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Need a bit of help identifying these Raw 1997 dates please guys:

Undertaker/Godfather match - Kane interupts (Raw - 
Undertaker/Jeff Jarrett match - Kane interupts (Raw -


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Need a bit of help identifying these Raw 1997 dates please guys:
> 
> Undertaker/Godfather (KAMA) match - Kane interupts (Raw - 11/10/1997?)
> Undertaker/Jeff Jarrett match - Kane interupts (IYH Degeneration X)


I might be wrong.

Anyways, I have no idea what I should watch out of my huge collection of DVDs that I have here. Kind of perplexing, this place hasn't been moving as fast lately and I wanna pick up the fucking pace.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Spot on, thankyou


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just one more plz, its a Kane/Bearer Promo from Raw in early 1998, Kane ends up tombstone-ing the bellringer, need to identify the date. Its after the RR but before the 17.03.1998


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker vs HHH from KOTR is their best match ever!!! A classic that none of you are smart enough to recognize. :HHH2
(jus' playin!)



The Beast Incarnate said:


> I might be wrong.
> 
> Anyways, I have no idea what I should watch out of my huge collection of DVDs that I have here. Kind of perplexing, this place hasn't been moving as fast lately and I wanna pick up the fucking pace.


Fitting that it happens around the same time I have to slow down my RASSLIN FUN TIME due to it being the last week and me having to finish all my assignments and exams. (finished, like 5 yesterday alone) Well, once I hopefully get my desired grades, summertime is on!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Evan Reviews Shit


*Triple H Vs The Big Show (Last Man Standing; Smackdown 1/9/2009*)

Yeah, this match was fucking great. The great thing about this match is the way they deliberately set up a slower pace and built the foundation of the match on that, and also how they used absolutely no weapons throughout the entire affair which I felt helped because it meant both men would have to become a little more creative with their work instead of relying on weapons. Trips gets completely dismantled here, letting Big Show pretty much dominate on offense for the entire bulk of the match (this was Hunter's third match on this night due to some Vickie shenanigans or some shit, so this isn't necessarily a clean bout). When it comes to creativity, this match is pretty damn good with both men using a variety of ways to pull themselves up where they pretty much wouldn't be able to stand on their own such as rolling out of the ring, announce table, etc. Triple H's comeback was pretty good for 2009 HHH standards as he crafted it based more on 'heart' than finding a weakness and exploiting it (something I'd rather see him do against a big man). Trips hits a pedigree out of nowhere and it causes Show to go delusional and throw knockout punches (& miss them) like crazy which Hunter rebounds off of, punching the ever loving shit out of Show in my favorite segment of the match. The ending is fucking fantastic as well with Big Show effectively ending Triple H with the chokeslam & the knockout punch, decisively putting away Trips for the time being. WATCH.

**** 1/2*​


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Kane vs. Vader (2/15/1998)-***
-First off hot damn was Kane no selling like a mofo; now your evaluation of the match will depend on context. Personally, I didn’t mind it because the entire point of this feud was to sell Kane as an unstoppable machine in preparation for his match with a returning Taker. As for the actual match, it was a solid big man affair with both guys relying on their power moves and Vader just got enough offense in to make the crowd believe he had a chance. Oh, and Bearer’s facials are hilarious I know some prefer his NWA and WCCW stuff but he was just on his game with the Paul Bearer gimmick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRIX1xmKxYw

Kane vs. Vader (5/31/1998)-**
-This was another decent match with these two and I cannot stress enough how both stupid and inconsequential the stipulation was (yes I know this is 1998 WWF but still). I did like how they bought some stuff from their previous match and tied it into the story of this one and other than that they worked virtually the same as their previous encounter. You got to admit Vader was very over during his tenure in WWF. If you like big man on big man action, then this was a solid watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLqHsEFX4rY


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Which was worse do you reckon,

Hogan/Taker or Taker/Hunter ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hunter/Taker is the worst by a fucking mile & an easy *DUD*.

Taker/Hogan is actually a good match and by far the best they've had against one another.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Kane vs. Vader (2/15/1998)-***
> -First off hot damn was Kane no selling like a mofo; now your evaluation of the match will depend on context. Personally, I didn’t mind it because the entire point of this feud was to sell Kane as an unstoppable machine in preparation for his match with a returning Taker. As for the actual match, it was a solid big man affair with both guys relying on their power moves and Vader just got enough offense in to make the crowd believe he had a chance. Oh, and Bearer’s facials are hilarious I know some prefer his NWA and WCCW stuff but he was just on his game with the Paul Bearer gimmick.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRIX1xmKxYw
> ...


I do like the NWO: IYH match (link in my sig ), yeah Kane no sells alot but that was the point, to make him look unstoppable, and Vader does his fucking moonsault finisher on him FFS :shock

Havn't seen the mask vs mask one in ages though...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is anybody doing a 2005 project atm ? Evan or fandango ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Evan Reviews Shit


Triple H Vs Eugene (NO DQ; RAW 8/30/2004)

The Summerslam 2004 match between Eugene & Triple H happens to be one of my favorite matches ever, but how does the NO-DQ rematch fare? Well as it would turn out, this is less of a mega heel performance by the game ala Summerslam & more of a standard one on one affair with a heel control segment & subsequent babyface comeback. The NO DQ stip works nice for the sole reason that Trips lands a devious & blatant low blow to Eugene at the beginning of the match which pretty much made the entire thing for me. Eugene's come back is pretty good as he slowly works from the bottom to make this shit really work. Standard main event match really, but I always enjoy watching Triple H in fully fledged dickish heel mode so I'm a fan of this. I LOL'D at Orton interfering with the sledgehammer to pick up the win for Eugene, only to have Orton's music play to close the show (side note; they rushed the HHH-Orton feud way too fast when they should have done it at the Survivor Series at the very earliest, with Orton-Benoit & HHH-Eugene II headlining Unforgiven instead). This was a good match but not a must see (the Summerslam match is a must see), going to have to check out their cage match the week after and see is Trips a sadistic bastard in that one.

*** 1/2*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> (side note; they rushed the HHH-Orton feud way too fast when they should have done it at the Survivor Series at the very earliest, with Orton-Benoit & HHH-Eugene II headlining Unforgiven instead).


It remains one of the most botched storylines ever. Orton turns face in an instant and gets buried in his first big title defense. And people wonder why his face run flopped.



Cliffy Byro said:


> Which was worse do you reckon,
> 
> Hogan/Taker or Taker/Hunter ?


I actually like Hogan/Taker quite a bit whereas the Hunter match is just comedy I get a lot of laughs out of.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's incredibly obvious that they wanted Orton to be a big star but not the next HUGE MEGASTAR like they made Batista & Cena. It's crazy to say this, but alot of the things that happened in 2004 & 2005 booking wise were simply emergency situations due to Brock walking on out. If Brock doesn't walk out I think there's obviously a few HUGE things that change;

- Orton doesn't win the WHC at Summerslam (he was no doubt going to be a huge star, but not a MEGASTAR due to him not being a MONSTER which leads me to my next point...)

- Batista isn't elevated to main event status. It's fucking obvious that he was just a beast who got elevated due to the OTHER beast & young face of the company walking out as well. 

- Since Batista is nothing but a replacement Brock; Brock-HHH headlines Mania XXI after Brock goes to Raw in the draft. Cena-JBL still happens & Cena becomes the number one guy still, but him and Brock are effectively neck to neck ALA Cena-Batista. Taker-Orton still happens, Angle-HBK still happens, etc. 

The two people who benefited the most from Brock leaving the company were Batista & Randy Orton (moreso Batista as Orton would have been a huge heel for a really long time, probably in Edge's spot as Cena's main foil throughout the RA era as they were obviously building Orton & Cena up as young guys who are going to have a huge rivalry someday).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree orton/hunter should have taken place at least a year later at the mimumim

2005-hhh/orton
2006-hhh/flair
2007-hhh/orton

each evolution member having their own program with hunter respectfully. I think flair can be self-centered most of the time but he is right in this case, evolution could have lasted a year or two more with all members still intacted


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still hold my belief that the HHH/Flair program should have taken place in late 2006 & early 2007, taking place at Wrestlemania XXIII and ending Flair's career (in a hypothetical universe where HHH doesn't get hurt or bring DX back).

Anyways, I'm not even going to bother to review HHH-Eugene III inside of the cage because I'm too lazy, but I'll tell you that it's better than the NO DQ match simply due to Hunter's intensity towards the end of the match and Eugene's bumping around and shit. The match is basically a squash match inside of the cage where Hunter dismantles him, & it's pretty good. The sadistic look on Hunter's face when he has Eugene beaten but wants to inflict more damage to send a statement to Orton is great. OH SHIT THAT TOP ROPE ARMBREAKER. Okay that was fucking awesome, this is actually fucking awesome. *****.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

So, I'm kind of in a slump right now, so the Vader project doesn't really feel like the most "fun" thing to do right now, and I haven't been watching any in my free time, so guys, what do I do to get back into it?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

(From WeAreProWrestling on YT: )


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

there is a couple of things wrong with his list to say the least


----------



## JLawls91 (Dec 5, 2012)

I;m not sure if this is the right place for this post but I've just watched Kayfabe Commentaries: Wrestling's Most Controversial Moments. Jesus Doink The Clown is a douche.

Getting all worked up on Kevin Nash saying the word fake and trying to explain to Bret about the Screwjob as if he's watching the interview live. What a muppet! No-one mentioned how much of a knob Shawn was during the Screwjob was a little disappointing, that was one of the main reasons why he didn't want to lose there.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel (IYH: Good Friends, Better Enemies 1997) No Holds Barred
*









This is how you express hatred through a wrestling match. Michaels drops his usual antics of showboating and what not, for one main objective and that's to kick Nash's face in, with a SCM preferably. Nash's mindset of only causing carnage and destruction, while not caring about the title itself, is a sight to behold. 1996's IWC were probably in jizzical proportions, when this match aired, mainly because of the shifting between real life and character Diesel portrayed, It's quite hilarious actually. This was basically, an AE brawl before they became so overused within the specific *in coming* era. Only this time, It was done a lot better. No overbooked nonsense with run-ins and a spamation of finishers, No lack of variation in moves used and standard amount of punches and kicks used as offensive attacks. Issues are Michael's selling though, he gets up too soon after the table decimation, maybe even relatable to superman likeness. I mean, A Jacknife is as powerful on its own, but with the addition of a stiff table, the devastation in result should increase by a significant margin. Nonetheless and with exclusion of selling issues, this match is reminiscent to those of an AE brawl, before they got famous, taking into the freshness this match showed at the time. It's deserving of a **** rating. ​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ shocked you found it great, its a *** for me and prefer their mania 11 bout, this one honestly felt like shawn was wresting a broomstick. The usage of that guys leg was :lmao :lmao


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

WM11 was horrible, IMO.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/Diesel GFBE is really awesome. It was pretty much a Michaels match, but I thought Diesel did enough to look like a dick in it. I have no idea how I feel about Vachon's prosthetic leg being used. It should be the kind of thing that bothers me, but isn't. Great, great match.



Wasn't Orton supposed to get Batista's push until they realised Orton was a shitsucky babyface and it flopped?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea Michaels himself was awesome in the match. Yea mania 11 is not that match better either. When I first saw the use of vachon leg I was like wtf this is pretty gutless but at the same time great


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*







*Rhyno (c) vs Crash Holly for the WWF Hardcore title- RAW Is War 5/14/01*

Rhyno is the champion here with Crash Holly being the challenger. This is his 6th WWF Hardcore title defense and his run as the Hardcore champion has been pretty solid so far. Crash Holly, who is wearing a WWF Come Get Some T-shirt, angrily storms into the ring which is funny to see. The match kicks off and Rhyno gets the upperhand on Crash Holly until Crash Holly throws Rhyno right out of the ring. Crash Holly hits Rhyno with a baseball slide and then throws him onto the barricade. Crash Holly goes on top of a barricade and hits Rhyno with a Hurricanrana. Crash Holly goes for a cover but Rhyno kicks out. Time for random ass weapons that are randomly under the ring to be brought out as Crash Holly throws trashcans along with trashcan lids into the ring. Crash Holly takes a trashcan lid, goes on the top rope, and whacks Rhyno with it. Crash Holly goes for another cover on Rhyno but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Rhyno takes Crash Holly down with a spinning spinebuster. Rhyno goes for a cover but Crash Holly kicks out at 2. Rhyno grounds Crash Holly into the corner turnbuckle and gives him a running kick to the face. Rhyno takes a trashcan, places it in front of Crash Holly's face, and kicks the trashcan into Crash Holly's face. Well that was an odd way of using a trashcan spot to say the least. Rhyno goes for a cover but Spike Dudley appears and puts Crash Holly's foot on the ropes, saving him from eating a pinfall. As Crash Holly picks up a trashcan, Spike Dudley attempts to give Rhyno a Dudley Dog but Rhyno throws Spike Dudley into Crash Holly and onto the trashcan. That was actually a pretty great spot. Rhyno covers Crash Holly and is successfully able to get the 123 along with retaining his Hardcore title.

Not a bad match here, just your typical Hardcore match. The thing with Hardcore matches is once you've seen one, you've pretty much seen them all as most Hardcore matches tend to have the same formula which isn't a bad thing, it just makes the structure of the match pretty typical. I will say that I thought the ending was pretty awesome with Rhyno throwing Spike Dudley into Crash Holly with Spike Dudley also hitting the trashcan that was in Crash Holly's hands. I thought that was a creative spot. *Rating:* ★★1/2


*Rhyno (c) vs Test vs The Big Show for the WWF Hardcore title- Judgement Day 2001*

Rhyno defends his WWF Hardcore title in a Triple Threat Hardcore match against Test and The Big Show. This makes it Rhyno's 7th Hardcore title defense. Test makes his way to the ring first with Big Show coming out at second. Big Show and Test go at it and Big Show throws Test out of the ring. Here comes the Hardcore champion Rhyno who slides steel steps inside the ring. Both Rhyno and Test work together to take out The Big Show but Big Show overpowers them both with a double clothesline. Big Show sends Rhyno out of the ring with a clothesline. Test sends Big Show flying out of the ring as well. Both Rhyno and Test work together again to take out The Big Show with both men throwing Big show into the barricade. Test punches Rhyno with Rhyno throwing Test into The Big Show and Big Show giving Rhyno a kick from outside the barricade. The match is now held outside into the crowd area. All three men go at it as they now enter the backstage area. Big Show throws Test into a wall. Test gets back up and wraps some wire around The Big Show's neck. Rhyno hits Big Show with a cart full of stacked boxes on it with Test covering Big Show but Rhyno breaks up the pin. Rhyno goes for a cover on Big Show but Test breaks up the pin. Big Show takes Test and throws him into a cage door. Big Show also throws Rhyno into a wall which cracks. Big Show places Rhyno onto a wall and the referee starts to count the pin for whatever reason but Test breaks up the pin. As Big Show is about to chokeslam Test onto a table, Rhyno breaks it up with Rhyno and Test working together and sending Big Show onto the table which breaks. Rhyno and Test now go at it and Rhyno gets the upperhand. Test takes Rhyno and throws him towards a couple of stacked boxes. Rhyno and Test are now into the crowd area again. Rhyno throws Test out of the barricade and back inside the ring area. Rhyno sends Test into the steel ring-post. Rhyno now throws weapons inside the ring. Trashcans and trashcan lids to be specific. Rhyno takes a trashcan lid and is about to hit Test with it but Test punches the trashcan lid in front of Rhyno's face. Rhyno gives Test a DDT on the trashcan lid and goes for a cover but Test kicks out at 2. Big Show who was taken out by Rhyno and Test backstage now enters the ring and hits Rhyno with a chokeslam. Test takes the big man down with a big boot and goes for a cover but Big Show kicks out at 2. Rhyno hits Big Show with a gore followed with Test hitting Rhyno with a trashcan lid. Test pins Rhyno for the 3 count but Rhyno kicks out. Test gets furious and goes under the ring to get a fire extinguisher. Test goes to hit Rhyno with it and misses, ending up in Big Show's hands with Big Show attempting to give Test a chokeslam but Test sprays the fire extinguisher into Big Show's face. Test knocks down Rhyno and strikes Big Show with the fire extinguisher. Test goes for a cover on Big Show but it doesn't put Big Show away. Test grabs steel steps and places it in front of Big Show but Rhyno hits Test with a trashcan knocking Test out of the ring. Rhyno with a trashcan in his hands throws the trashcan at Big Show with The Big Show catching the trashcan and Rhyno giving Big Show a gore. Cool spot. Rhyno gets the 123 and retains his Hardcore title. 

Not a bad match but man was this dull. Not only that but the structure of the match was bad and sloppy. I would have given this a ★3/4 rating if it weren't for the last 5 minutes of the match along with the cool spot in the end saving the match from being an absolute bore. *Rating:* ★★ 


*Rhyno (c) vs The Big Show for the WWF Hardcore title- RAW Is War 5/21/01*

With Rhyno pinning Big Show at the Judgement Day 2001 PPV, Big Show gets a shot at Rhyno's WWF Hardcore title. This is Rhyno's 8th WWF Hardcore title defense. Rhyno makes his way to the ring and starts to throw all sorts of weapons into the ring. Big Show goes outside to the ring and they go at it as the match starts. Big Show takes Rhyno down with a clothesline. Big Show gives Rhyno a clothesline on the entrance way. Rhyno tries to fight back but Big Show sends Rhyno falling down the entrance way with a punch. Big Show throws Rhyno onto the barricade and does it again. Big Show takes Rhyno and slaps him on the chest for good measure. Big Show runs towards Rhyno but hits the steal ring-post instead. Rhyno takes a Hanicap sign and hits it on Big Show's arm. Rhyno hits Big Show in the head with the Handicap sign, taking Big Show's arm and throwing it onto the barricade. Rhyno throws Big Show's arm onto the barricade again. Big Show hits Rhyno with his injured arm and throws Rhyno into the ring. rhyno attacks Big Show again with the Handicap sign. Rhyno picks up the Handicap sign again and hits Big Show over the head with it. Rhyno starts to work on Big Show's injured arm. Rhyno tries to take down Show with punches to the face but gets a big head-butt from Show. Big Show gives Rhyno another head-butt and attempts to give Rhyno a chokeslam but Rhyno breaks out of it and hits Big Show over the head with a trashcan lid. Rhyno gores for a gore on Big Show but ends up hitting a chair placed into Big Show's hands. Rhyno picks up a trashcan and throws it at Big Show but Big Show throws it back at Rhyno and kicks Rhyno in the face with the trashcan. Big Show chokeslams Rhyno onto a trashcan. Big Show pins Rhyno and wins the match, also winning the WWF Hardcore title.

This was pretty solid. Nice arm-work being done and Big Show's selling of the arm was also a nice touch on things. I just wish the arm-work was used a little more effectively throughout the match. Other than that, it's a good match with the Hardcore title changing hands. *Rating: *★★★


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

King of the Ring 2002 was such a poor PPV especially considering who was on the roster at the time. It's hard to believe one of the greatest PPVs of all time SummerSlam 2002 took place two months later.

Taker v HHH was as bad as it was because neither wanted to look weak and it was booked so that neither wrestler would have to do a clean job. early-mid 2002 in WWF was weird with lots of egos around and creative at a los what to do. You can't blame Austin really for packing it in. Imo Hoban v Taker from JD02 was bad because it had Hogan in it and. Taker v HHH should've been better than it was. 


It's been a while since I watched HBK v Nash from IYH7 but it's at least ****. I always felt that Shawn was trying to copy or outdo Bret in doing a no dq match with Nash, even down to doing a table spot. Great match all the same.



Any opinions on Rebellion 2001? Haven't watched it in more than 10 years. I might stick it on.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The only PPV I have ever seen live was IYH 7. That HBK/Nash match was great. Lots of fun and really made HBK look strong. I do agree HBK was trying to outdo Bret. That was pretty much HBK though from 92-97. 

I'd put Summerslam 2002 up against just about any PPV. Something for everyone and that card was just incredible. If I had to pick the best PPVs of all time (which is a near impossible task) SS 2002 would be on it. I thought 2002 was a great year all around. Very underrated IMHO. 

I own Rebellion 2001. It's pretty good. I really enjoyed the Edge V Christian cage match, Jericho V Angle was good and anytime it's Rock V Austin it's damn good or better. This was right before one of my favorite PPVs of all time (Survivor Series 2001....that main event was a blast) so I have a soft spot for that time frame.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nash Vs HBK is a fantastic bout that deserves all the recognition that gets thrown at it. Shawn's scrappy babyface performance was something to behold as was most of his 1996 run where he went toe to toe with monsters & powerhouses on seemingly every turn. I'll always consider Bret Vs Nash from The Survivor Series to be the greatest match in Nash's career by far and a top 30 WWF/WWE match ever, but his other bouts with Bret in conjunction with the HBK bout is certainly nothing to look down upon. 

Come to think of it, most guys who 'go on tour' with the belt so to speak tend to wrestle monsters & powerhouses on seemingly every turn ALA Hogan/HBK/Bret/Cena. Interesting.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

As GOAT as Bret Hart may be, his matches against Diesel are a chore to watch. That's not a knock on Bret at all, it's just that Kevin Nash is just so fucking bad. Bret deserves all the praise in the world to carry that buffoon to a series of tolerable matches. 

Bret/Taker series on the other hand :mark:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The only thing i hate about the Undie-Bret series, is the constant leg work by Bret not leading anywhere. I mean, It dosen't tie into the ending, nor story. I understand it's Bret's main target for any opponent, but it gets fuck-all tedious at times.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MAD LOVE for the Bret-Taker series.

I know Cody fucking hates them or finds them extremely underwhelming & whatnot, but the One Night Only match has been a personal favorite of mine for years despite the retarded finish while the Summerslam match never gets the love that I feel it really deserves. The Rumble 96 match I haven't seen in approx. 427291 years so I can't tell anybody my opinions on it at the moment, might as well throw some STARZ at them;

1/31/1992 MSG ~ **** 1/2*
Royal Rumble 1996 ~ **** 1/2*
Summerslam 1997 ~ ******
One Night Only ~ ***** 1/2*

The ONO encounter would fall in my top 50 WWF/WWE matches ever & is the gold standard of the series despite it being one of the most overlooked pair of performers together out there.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mah top 20 WWE matches of the 2000s. Don't expect to agree with anything on the list.....I almost literally mean **ANYTHING**.



Spoiler: !?



1.	Chris Benoit v. Finlay (Judgment Day 5/21/06)
2.	Eddie Guerrero v. Rey Mysterio (SmackDown 6/23/05)
3.	The Rock v. Steve Austin (WrestleMania 4/1/01)
4.	Eddie Guerrero v. JBL (Judgment Day 5/16/04)
5.	John Cena v. Umaga (Royal Rumble 1/28/07)
6.	Steve Austin v. Chris Benoit (SmackDwn 5/31/01)
7.	Rey Mysterio v. Randy Orton (SmackDown 4/7/06)
8.	Chris Benoit v. Finlay (SmackDown 5/5/06)
9.	Chris Benoit v. William Regal (No Mercy 10/8/06)
10.	Steve Austin v. Kurt Angle (SumerSlam 8/19/01)
11.	HHH v. Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble 1/23/00)
12.	Matt Hardy v. Finlay (SmackDown 6/22/07)
13.	Steve Austin/HHH v. Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho (Raw 5/21/01)
14.	Rey Mysterio v. Finlay (SmackDown 11/9/07)
15.	Eddie Guerrero v. Rey Mysterio (Judgment Day 5/22/05)
16.	Rey Mysterio v. Jamie Noble (Velocity 5/1/04)
17.	Eddie Guerrero v. The Big Show (SmackDown 4/15/04)
18.	Matt Hardy v. Edge (Unforgiven 9/18/05)
19.	Jack Swagger v. Christian (ECW 2/24/09)
20.	Chavo Guerrero v. Evan Bourne (ECW 10/14/08)


A bunch of other shit came really close, and I could swap things back and forth, but I settled with this. I’ll completely admit that it’s a whacko list. I made an ‘off the top of my head’ list a few years ago and it looked NOTHING like this. I'm pretty sure like half of the matches I would have had on there back then are dropped. Though the top three haven’t changed, and I suspect they never will (the order could, I suppose), but the rest of the list is totally different. I'm even surprised by how I ranked things. Kind of unsurprising that the list’s dominated by Rey, Eddie, Benoit and Finlay, though. B/c those guys are the shit.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I wonder what those matches would translate into star ratings? Care to tell us, Yeah?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Complete brilliance (or madness) as always Yeah.

I was shocked to find that Rey Vs Eddie from 6/23/2005 wasn't #1 and that Rock-Austin was so high, seems like a match that you would absolutely fucking despise. Also surprised to see that the Great American Bash match between Eddie & Rey never made the list despite being the most 'juicy' match they've ever had from a straight out storytelling standpoint besides perhaps the greatest match of the 2000s in Rey Vs Eddie from 6/23/05.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

What's your favorite Undie match, Yeah? I'm guessing it's either the Angle one from SD 2003, HIAC with Brock, One of the Batista matches or LMS with Big Show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> I wonder what those matches would translate into star ratings? Care to tell us, Yeah?


Wow, I have no idea. The top 4 or 5 would be ****1/2....maybe ****3/4 for the top two. Austin/Benoit down to, uHHHH, probably Benoit/Finlay 5/5/06 would be ****1/4. Everything else is probably ****? Maybe not the last two or three? I really have no idea.  Even if I did give the snowflakes again I'd have a different way of rating to most, I'd think. I mean if I said 'there are not twenty four star matches from WWE in the 2000s', it might look like I'm shitting all over the decade when I'm not. I think my idea of 'four stars' is different to most people. I'm kind of hesitant to just call any match I really love 'four stars', so it looks like I'm really harsh. Some of my favourite matches ever might not reach three stars. This is the kind of confusion that made me throw in the star-covered towel. 



The Beast Incarnate said:


> I was shocked to find that Rey Vs Eddie from 6/23/2005 wasn't #1 and that Rock-Austin was so high, seems like a match that you would absolutely fucking despise. Also surprised to see that the Great American Bash match between Eddie & Rey never made the list despite being the most 'juicy' match they've ever had from a straight out storytelling standpoint besides perhaps the greatest match of the 2000s in Rey Vs Eddie from 6/23/05.


Rey/Eddie is my favourite match ever, yeah, but I think Benoit/Fit is better. I tend to go back and forth depending on re-watches, so I'll avoid watching them again while I'm workin on the worldwide top 100 just in case I change my mind.  Rey/Eddie at GAB would be top 30. I came out liking Judgment Day more this time, which may actually be a first since the first time I watched GAB.

I still don't know what there is not to like about Rock/Austin. It's a nutty bar fight which, and if may use words from vivialabrave, feels like 'Demi-gods massacring each other on Mt. Olympus in this end of the world war of attrition'. Lukewarm about the finish, but Austin losing his mind and pairing up with the devil is as good a shitty finish as I can think of. 



Fluze said:


> What's your favorite Undie match, Yeah? I'm guessing it's either the Angle one from SD 2003, HIAC with Brock, One of the Batista matches or LMS with Big Show.


Michaels match at Mania and SD match with Angle would probably be top 25. I do feel bad there isn't any Undertaker on there, but I didn't like anything he did as much as anything I put on there.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I have watched 22 Goldberg matches today, what in the actual fuck?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Bret/Taker Series

Royal Rumble 96 - ****
Summerslam 97 - ****1/2
One Night Only - ****3/4

That damn good.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tanner1495 said:


> I have watched 22 Goldberg matches today, what in the actual fuck?


I bet it took you like 13 minutes as well.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

The booking and finish to Rock v Austin at WrestleMania 17 always pissed me off. It also pissed me off that it was announced as a no dq right before it started. It also pissed me off that Rock only won the belt from Angle at the previous PPV making Angle a transition title holder - and Rock did nothing of interest between No Mercy 00 and No Way Out 01 beside eh... feud with Rikishi..

They should've had Rock win the title at Armageddon or Rumble, if doing a no dq then announced it far in advance and tidied up the finish. If they really had to go wìth Austin joining McMahon at Mania (a piss poor decision as that should've taken place on Raw the next night) then they should've left it announced as a normal match and had Vince's interference account for why Austin wasn't DQ'd for using a chair either by way of ref bump or Montreal style. 

Anyway, I'd have preferred Vince stay out of it and Austin still could have turned psycho. The crowd wasn't even aware of what was going on with Vince. The finish sullies the match and the PPV for me (which had already had 3 no dq/hardcore brawl style matches befor the main event).


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Spoiler: Taker-Hunter Wrestlemania 27 Review



*The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 27) - No Holds Barred​*









After a pair of legendary encounters with Shawn Michaels the last two years running, the question on everyone's mind this year was how on earth The Undertaker could expect to follow them? HBK at least had the luxury of retirement after their final battle. Even working only part-time, The Undertaker is under extreme pressure to continue the WrestleMania streak, not just of winning matches but of selling the event around them, of delivering a match that ranks atop the best of the year on a routine basis. After so much time off it seemed like a bad idea to choose Triple H, a man who had even less in-ring time over the previous twelve months, as his opponent. While The Game is an unquestionable legend in his own right, his abilities aren't quite on par with The Showstopper and certainly not in the field of taking the big bumps needed to really put over a character like The Dead Man. In a way that made this match all the more intriguing – when two of the strongest and most unbreakable characters in the WWE collide in a situation where one must definitely lose, which one will come out on top?

For this match more than any other, the amazing set and production values enhance the whole thing to another level. Triple H's Metallica-themed entrance easily ranks amongst the very best of all-time, as both character and song are a good fit for the Colosseum-like, stadium atmosphere inside the Georgia Dome. Once things start they don't let up, with all doubts about bumps tossed aside as quickly and as easily as The Game is thrown right over the top and out of the ring. From there the match is all about escalation and devastation. You hear wrestlers say they're going to put everything on the line to defeat their opponents, but here you absolutely believe it. Taker with his selling especially, goes all the way to make this as epic and impactful as it could possibly be, taking part in huge spots and hard falls.

It's been interesting how for the last few years there has always managed to be genuine doubt over the result of Taker's matches despite his historic winning record. Uncertainty is at the heart of all good drama, and once again it is kindled and tended here into a mighty blaze. From being hit with his own finisher, to going right through a table to taking stiff chair shots to the head again and again, The Undertaker is pummeled so much you loose all faith that he can survive. One of the best things about the previous match was loosing Michael Cole and the rest from commentary and leaving us with the classic team of J.R. And The King. As you'd expect, J.R. highlights and saturates the action with his trademark emotion, drawing us even closer to every near-fall. When the end finally does come it is right on the line, Triple H just inches from hitting Taker with his patented sledgehammer but trapped for an eternity within Hell's Gate. The Game's hand loosing it's grip on the hammer and dropping into the submission is one of the best images in WrestleMania history. The Undertaker wins, but for the first time he leaves on a stretcher after being pushed to his absolute limit. This is my 2nd MOTY, behind the 5 star Punk-Cena encounter.

*****1/2 (High End)*​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker/HHH 27. This fucking match lol. At one stage I think I almost had it at the full five. Then I dropped it way down to 4 and a bit. Since then I've seen so much talk about it and read so many opinion pieces on it, I have a feeling that if I watch it again, it will go back up. This match will forever be special to me for the sole fact that I was there in the stadium when HHH hit that Tombstone and I'll tell you right now that every single person, all 80,000 of us or however many it was, we all thought it was over. In terms of pure hysteria and people just legit losing their shit, I've never experienced anything like it before. The power of the streak. I'll never forget it. And now I want to watch it again...


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

It a fantastic match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have my reaction on video. That thing is never seeing the light of day lol. Talk about embarrassing :lol. That match, that moment and seeing Rock made Mania 27 completely worth it for me. Also the next night on Raw when Rock and Cena agreed to their match. Good times even if the rest of the card was less than memorable. Some good stuff on it (Rey/Cody, Punk/Orton) but not particularly newsworthy to any degree.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

And those special Taker/HHH Entrances


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I remember giving the full five to Taker/Trips WM 27 as well. Boy did that change on the last watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

good list Yeah 1993, different but never bad. Im extremely shocked at #2 though, as it doesn't really fit the list with the other matches on it. 

HHH/Taker wm 27 ****1/2

-imo 28 better but you really cannot go wrong with them. 2nd MOTY behind cena/punk mitb and ahead of orton/christian otl


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fear The Fury: Brock Lesnar's Top 25 Matches Ever (20-16)


20. Vs The Big Show (Smackdown 6/12/2003) 










(Hmmmmm. This could be a bad idea now that I think about it)

HOLY S**T! That's what Tazz had to say about the match on commentary, complete w/ censors and everything due to this being the infamous ring collapse match that everyone and their mother has seen by now; but has anybody ever talked about the actual match that came before the big moment? Well in short, it's fucking great stuff as you'd expect between Big Show & Brock at this point with the two big bastards beating the fuck out of each other until the big MOMENT happens which makes the whole thing that much more chaotic. If you enjoye dthe Rumble bout, yu'll definitely enjoy this one, boss.

*~ *** 1/4*


19. W/ Chris Benoit Vs Team Angle (Kurt Angle/Shelton Benjamin/Charlie Haas)










(Terrible image of Brock THROWING a sucka)

What a technical masterpiece, I mean my god, the technicality in this match is off the charts. It's so technical that technically it's more than a technical match, therefore making it a post-technical bout. In all seriousness though, this match rules due to Benoit's ability to play the face in peril while being grounded by the strength in numbers Team Angle while Brock has to wait before ultimately becoming unleashed, killing Team Angle in the process. If you're looking for a good old fashioned mix of face in peril mixed with a hot tag performance that makes you get up and say FUCK YEAH then this is the shit for you (which is crazy, because I fucking hate most handicap matches).

*~ *** 1/4*


18. Vs Kurt Angle (WWE Championship - Wrestlemania XIX)










(It's funny because neither man knows who they are or where they are!)

It doesn't get any bigger than the main event of a Wrestlemania, & to top off the greatest show of all time is certainly no easy task, especially when one of the two men involved in the match is one bad landing away from paralysis & both are practically dead by the time the match is over. Speaking of OMGZTECHNICALPROWESS, Brock-Kurt is more or less these two coming out and saying "HEY! WE WERE AMATEUR WRESTLERS YOU KNOW?" & wrestling that style mixed in with a little bit of WWE style finisher exchanging and the like. I'm not as big on it as some people are & I'm not as harsh on it as some people are because I understand the nature of the match itself and what it was trying to be; it's very Benoit-Angle in it's transitions & whatnot. + Brock proves he's not human by landing on his head mid match and still managing to finish the bout. BALLS. I could pretty much pick this match up and watch it at any time though, I'm a huge fan of what they did out there and thought this was fucking tremendous (we're not going to speak about the NJPW shit, but we'll get more of this later).

*~ *** 1/2*


17. Vs Giant Bernard (NJPW 3/3/2006)










(Missing from photo; Bernard's intestines)

Giant Bernard & his million other names happens to be one of the most underrated big men in history, bar none. Now that I have that obvious line out of the way I can talk about the best match from Brock's NJPW run, a fucking throw fest with the former A-Train. These two have locked up before and had some good matches, but nothing exactly of this quality for sure with Bernard trying to toss the monster Lesnar around and vice versa until something's eventually gotta give. Brock was really at home in this match, probably due to having someone with experience in a Japanese style of wrestling in Bernard, with the ability to move to a more WWE main event style midway through the match as well; something that Kurt Angle failed to do (okay, enough shots at Angle when his chemistry with Brock is actually pretty fucking astounding). Two big motherfuckers going at it is perhaps my favorite style and this match fucking ruled the world; if you're going to take anything away from this list it really should be to watch this match as I'm willing to bet not alot of people here have seen it.

*~ *** 3/4*


16. Vs The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle (WWE Championship - Vengeance 2003)










(Who would have thought that Big Show would have ended up with more years in the WWE than Kurt & Brock combined?)

Here we go, another one of my personal favorites here. This is a little bit Brock Vs Angle, a little bit Brock Vs Big Show, & a little bit of three way mayhem. Despite a few obvious retardations in the match (Angle actually winning the title with the Angle slam? K.), the match is pretty much nonstop awesomeness from where I sit. From the way that Big Show fends off Angle & Brock to how they take the big man out and duke it out for themselves only for Show to come back with a fucking Vengeance (HA) every single time is awesome. Kurt & Brock played up the respectful but competitive friends in this really well while Big Show shined in his role as the monster heel who Kurt & Brock must overcome before finding out who is the better man this time. It is literally and metaphorically a representation of the Brock-Kurt feud at the time w/ Big Show being in the way of these two seeing who will come out on top in their feud. I'm generally not a fan of triple threat matches at all, but the way this one was constructed with Big Show going absolutely insane alongside Angle & Brock putting in work, it's highly recommended. Yeah, we're about to get into matches that would make my top 150 - 200 WWF/WWE matches soon, I'm fucking excited to RAVE about those.

*~ *** 3/4*


*The List So Far*

16. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2003)
17. Brock Lesnar Vs Giant Bernard (NJPW 2006)
18. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
19. Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit Vs Team Angle (No Way Out 2003)
20. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (6/12/2003 Smackdown)
21. Brock Lesnar Vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)
22. Brock Lesnar Vs Manabu Nakanishi (NJPW 2005)
23. Brock Lesnar Vs Ric Flair (RAW 2002)
24. Brock Lesnar Vs Akebono (NJPW 2006)
25. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Royal Rumble 2003)​


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK


----------



## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

imo HBK vs Taker 1 and 2 > taker vs trips 2 and 3


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Surprised you only have a ***1/2 for Angle @ Mania, i usually see that higher, although i havn't seen it in years, so i need a rewatch tbh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE NEW KING OF KINGS.

THE ANOMALY.

Seriously though, I don't even know how I can possibly suck Brock Vs Cena's proverbial dick anymore than I already have to come up with a sufficient little write up on it. Might need to watch it for like the 11th time to see what's up with it. There's like ONE match that I have as definitively better than it & that's the original cell match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I love that match too, but still have trouble wrapping my head around the finish. I mean, I guess I kinda get it? Story wise it made sense I guess? Someone please convince me of this so I get let it go.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's simple as to WHY Brock lost that match; in 2004 Brock left the company pretty much dead in the water without a top young guy, thus ushering in the era of Cena & Batista. This was his way of giving back to the company (the company that MADE him such a big name that he was able to ascend to the top of the mountain in MMA without really 'paying his dues') he pretty much left and never gave two fucks about, by putting over the top company guy while still looking like an unstoppable war machine that you could market in the future. The thing about the finish is that Cena never really beat Brock clean or definitively beat Brock anyways, as Brock had him down and out multiple times during the match but due to Brock's lust for punishing Cena, kept going. Cena pretty much won the battle but not the war as Brock was able to get up and walk out with no injury while Cena had his arm effectively ripped out of it's socket.

It's not so much the match itself that was the problem; it was the booking that came after it. Cena had no fucking business wrestling at Over the Limit or No Way Out last year, he wasn't even fucking champion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's a solid explanation. Perhaps what gets me more than the actual finish was that Cena no-sold the whole beating the following night, rendering BROCK's work and the post-match promo effectively worthless.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> That's a solid explanation. Perhaps what gets me more than the actual finish was that Cena no-sold the whole beating the following night, rendering BROCK's work and the post-match promo effectively worthless.


The speech he gave after the match: 










My reaction, Complete fucking moron, i can only imagine Brock backstage.

Here's hoping we get a definitive rematch, for the title, Brock wins, any-fucking-thing.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm also higher on the Triple H-Brock trilogy than most people are, even though I firmly believe that the feud itself wasn't that great apart from a few segments and dragged on way too fucking long. The matches were fucking fantastic; from the ridiculously amazing Summerslam match where Brock pummels HHH until Game finds a weakness & exploits it, to the brutal & chaotic Wrestlemania match which was practically non-stop violence, all the way down to the blow-off cage match.

It's crazy because I don't even think that the Mania & Extreme Rules matches even needed to exist, but in a few years I'll look back on them and remember the HHH-Brock matches as some of my favorite matches ever (Well, I already do really). Brock broke HHH's arm twice, sent him into retirement pretty much twice, while HHH only knocked out Brock once. Pretty sure Brock definitively won the feud, which makes the Mania match that much sweeter for me.

I don't even necessarily believe that Cena's post match promo was a problem at all TBH, as his arm was pretty much hanging off of him the entire time & he was covered in blood. It was pretty much a "oh shit, I escaped that somehow but I'm fucking dead and I need to go home or stop wrestling for a while because I don't want to ever face something like that again" look that he had the entire time despite CENA BEING CENA & smiling the entire time. It's what happened the weeks afterwards that really pissed me off; & this was during the 2 hour RAWs where they could have easily had Cena stay the fuck away until winning MITB and kickstarting his feud with Punk again.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> I love that match too, but still have trouble wrapping my head around the finish. I mean, I guess I kinda get it? Story wise it made sense I guess? Someone please convince me of this so I get let it go.


Cena hit two HUGE bombs on Lesnar to get the victory. It's not complicated. Brock was on the offensive the entire match that he didn't expect Cena to muster that kind of offence. Looking at the spots individually, one is this beast running at max pace into a steel chain headshot and the other is an FU through the steel steps.

That could take out anybody, even Lesnar. There's really no complex story behind it. Cena gets outmuscled and outclassed the entire match but he managed to pull it out of the bag in the last second b/c Lesnar got cocky and made a big mistake.

I think as far as face comebacks go, nothing tops this.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> It's not so much the match itself that was the problem; it was the booking that came after it. Cena had no fucking business wrestling at Over the Limit or No Way Out last year, he wasn't even fucking champion.


I blocked out everything that followed after that match until SummerSlam tbh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brock/HHH matches can all rot in hell. I have a feeling I'm gonna have to curse you out KOK, when 2 or all 3 of their matches are in the top 10. :brock

And damn KOK, that Mania match is lower than I thought it'd be. Same thing with the Vengeance 03 triple threat. I also don't remember anything about that Lesnar/Show match aside from the ring collapsing, so maybe I should check that out. 

And Taker/HHH WM27... still ***1/2 for me. Whenever I re-watch the match, I try to like it more, I really do, but I just can't. On my last watch of the match a month or so ago, my basic thoughts were:
Good start
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz for like 20 minutes
TOMBSTONE TO TAKER, TAKER KICKS OUT, WHAT A MOMENT!
TAKER WINS!

And that's it.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Gamblor said:


> Brock/HHH matches can all rot in hell. I have a feeling I'm gonna have to curse you out KOK, when 2 or all 3 of their matches are in the top 10. :brock
> 
> And damn KOK, that Mania match is lower than I thought it'd be. Same thing with the Vengeance 03 triple threat. I also don't remember anything about that Lesnar/Show match aside from the ring collapsing, so maybe I should check that out.
> 
> ...




Agreed. And to think in 03 this was a dream match for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> Cena hit two HUGE bombs on Lesnar to get the victory. It's not complicated. Brock was on the offensive the entire match that he didn't expect Cena to muster that kind of offence. Looking at the spots individually, one is this beast running at max pace into a steel chain headshot and the other is an FU through the steel steps.
> 
> That could take out anybody, even Lesnar. There's really no complex story behind it. Cena gets outmuscled and outclassed the entire match but he managed to pull it out of the bag in the last second b/c Lesnar got cocky and made a big mistake.
> 
> I think as far as face comebacks go, nothing tops this.


Yeah, I mean like I said, I get it. Maybe it's just the aftermath that pisses me off, as KOK said.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> That's a solid explanation. Perhaps what gets me more than the actual finish was that Cena no-sold the whole beating the following night, rendering BROCK's work and the post-match promo effectively worthless.


This is what I hated about it. I mean, Brock beat the crap out of you and he comes out acting like nothing happened the next night. I like it when guys come out after a PPV and sell what they went through. Not too long ago after an Elimination Chamber PPV, all 6 contestants had a match the next night. They came out limping and nursing their injuries like they beat the hell out of each other the night before, which they did. I don't understand why either Cena himself or the people in the back not have him sell at least something from the night before.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't worry Gamblor, there might not be two HHH matches in the top 10 after all .

& what makes the face comeback so fantastic is the organic nature of it. It was fucking believable that a chainshot + FU onto the steel steps would stun Lesnar long enough to forget where he was for 3 seconds. This wasn't Wrestlemania XXIX; Lesnar didn't get knocked out, he was just stunned momentarily. The organic nature of that match is what sets it apart from other matches TBH, if Cena had to bust out the shoulder blocks and the sit out powerbomb along w/ the five knuckle shuffle in his comeback I definitely would have called shenanigans.

I fucking love the finish to the Summerslam match as well; Triple H hits a second pedigree only for Brock to use his magical BROCK powers to no sell the shit out of it and lock in the kimura for the win. If WWE has done one thing in booking Brock right, it's that a normal move can't beat him ... You need some kind of super move like the pedigree onto the steel steps or some shit.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

@zep81

That was my reaction to the last segment on RAW the next night.
So Lesnar's gone, Cena's competing on PPV in 3 weeks and it's against Laurinaitis ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> If WWE has done one thing in booking Brock right, it's that a normal move can't beat him ... You need some kind of super move like the pedigree onto the steel steps or some shit.


Yeah, I definitely dig this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock is still the kayfabe (& legit) baddest dude in the company.

People get pissed off about Cena beating him? He gave Cena the biggest beating of his career and had him down for the three, Cena barely escaped with his life intact.

HHH beating him? Took six minutes of straight offense with a pedigree on the steel steps to finally beat Lesnar, whereas Brock was able to break HHH's arm twice, kick out of the pedigree every single damn time, retire him, & give him a concussion so bad that he's probably going to 'retire' again alongside beating HHH twice. Plus, Brock's going to destroy all of his opponents leading up to Mania XXX anyways.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I hate the finish to Cena/Lesnar because I just don't think Cena should have won. Simple as that. It was a horrible way to end the match and the way they handled everything afterwards from Cena's bullshit and gay as fuck speech to him completely no selling the whole thing the next night to WWE acting like he lost instead of won...it's just stupid and annoying. If they're just going to act like Lesnar beat him then why not just have Lesnar fucking beat him? To come back after 8 years, to dominate SO decisively in a match but then to lose the way he did? I'll never get over it and it's the only flaw of the match. I know it's silly to get bothered about who wins a predetermined wrestling match but I can't help it. They cut the legs out from under Brock before he even got started. Just unbelievable.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

See, that's kinda how I've felt about the whole thing. There was so much buzz surrounding Brock's return only for him to lose his first match back. Kinda let the wind out of the sails for me, despite how great the match itself was.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

On the flip side though, I guess I can understand WWE giving wins to Cena and HHH. I mean face facts, the 2 of them aren't going anywhere. If the endgame for Brock is to come in, dominate like fuck and then ultimately lose to Rock at Mania XXX before riding off into the sunset, which I think it more than likely is tbh, then I can buy them letting Cena/HHH pick up a win each. They're both still going to be here. Rock isn't. He's going to leave too. Brock losing to Taker at Mania is the same scenario. He's going to be gone soon as well. At least with Cena and Trips, both of these guys are going to be TV characters for a _long_ time yet. When you look at it that way, I can understand why they did it and in HHH's case, he got utterly and completely dominated in almost every physical confrontation they had and only managed to get in offence through a weakness/mistake on Brock's part and only managed to win after literally hitting him with everything he had. He has lost twice, yes, but he still looks a beast and is booked like one. 

Still think he should have beat Cena though .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/lesnar and cena/brock are by far the most talked about series and match on this thread by far :lol

only problem with cena/brock is they just stopped it. Cena was supposedly injured but showed up the next night. He was eventually put in a program with tensai/Johnny Ace instead ?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I feel like these things are discussed only every 5 pages lol. 

:cena5 :brock :jpl


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Cena loss was alright for me. The Triple H loss was bad, but the match never should've happened in the first place.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Meh. If Cena can win and Lesnar can break Game's arm twice, beat him twice and pseudo retire him then it doesn't hurt to let Trips get a win too. Of course, it would have been a different story had Brock won the first match but that isn't the case. Having him lose right out of the blocks mitigated any damage the loss to Trips might have caused.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Exactly. It was exactly like they _let_ Triple H get that win. The Cena win felt real because he NEEDED to win for Brock to leave him the fuck alone. Triple H just won b/c he had to get that win back b/c the face always does apparently.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I wasn't too impressed with the Lesnar/HHH SS match, but I would've been happy with everything ending at Summerslam, from what the feud was to that point and the match itself wasn't bad. However what pissed me off about the whole feud is the fact it continued past that and just got even worse. Even with HHH's career on the line, it was obvious HHH was getting his win back, made even more-so when HBK was put in HHH's corner. The promos and general build to the match, outside of one or two Heyman promos, were just abysmal. Then of course HHH pointlessly wins and a third match is inevitable, even though by that point I would've been happy with Lesnar just moving along even coming off a loss in that feud.

And then after that Mania match, they top the awfulness with the build to ER. Unlike Mania though, the cage match was passable. But the whole Lesnar/HHH, as I've said what feels like a billion times already, is the worst big match trilogy I can recall... worst big feud for that matter period I can recall. If Lesnar/HHH IV actually does happen, even if it ends up Lesnar destroying HHH this time around, I'd still cry.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I was torn, I loved the match but didn't like Cena winning.

Even if Cena didn't take time off, Lesnar beating him could've went well into his match with HHH.
Lesnar beats Cena and has more demands as the new face of the company, Triple refuses and gets his arm broken by Lesnar.

As a Lesnar & Rock fan i can honestly say i won't be sad when they officially leave the company.
I'd rather have them back throughout the year then seeing them a couple of times a year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is it rumored that they're gonna have a 4th match?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

CHODE said:


> imo HBK vs Taker 1 and 2 > taker vs trips 2 and 3


Can't say that anyone will disagree with that.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

bme said:


> I was torn, I loved the match but didn't like Cena winning.
> 
> Even if Cena didn't take time off, Lesnar beating him could've went well into his match with HHH.
> Lesnar beats Cena and has more demands as the new face of the company, Triple refuses and gets his arm broken by Lesnar.
> ...


And Lesnar just leaves even though he beat the face of the company and the only man who wouldn't acquiesce to his demands?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips won because he had his arm broken twice, because HE was the one who called Lesnar out and got his ass beat, his family was ridiculed and attacked etc. I would have been perfectly fine with them stopping at the SS match but if they were doing a best of 3 then having Brock win all 3 matches would have been a bit much. I got no problem with Trips winning at Mania because Brock won the overall feud and more importantly, Cena beat him and thus showed the world that the beast CAN be stopped. Brock is still a beast, we all know that and he always will be. He's just not an unstoppable beast and wasn't as soon as ER was over last year. That's what bugs me about the Cena victory so much I guess, the fact that they well and truly did cut the legs from under Lesnar before he even got started, you know.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually I do Im probably the only person on this thread that has hhh/taker HIAC at 5*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is it rumored that they're gonna have a 4th match?


TBH, I've heard that a commentator or someone hinted it on WWE TV, but I can't say for certain as I don't recall. I don't think it's gonna happen, but the possibility is there. However I think they're using Curtis Axel right now to take HHH's permanently off Lesnar, and the fact Axel is with Heyman made the transition a smooth one. I think based on their Raw match, a HHH/Axel match may have some potential. We'll see though.

HHH being Lesnar was a lot worse than Cena beating Lesnar. When Cena beat Lesnar, at the very least it was in the most fluky fashion possible and due to the fact Lesnar toyed with Cena the whole match. HHH beating Lesnar though was decisive and there was no question about it. A 3 match series should've never happened and if HHH had to fight Lesnar again for what Lesnar did to Vince, he should've just lost at Mania and retired. Lesnar would've come out of the feud looking a lot stronger than he did. And HHH could stay out of the ring and go into more of a corporate role at some point, maybe even being the one to put Taker against Lesnar at Mania 30 in an attempt to stop Lesnar since HHH can't anymore.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Of course, Trips would've needed that win back if it was a best of 3, but the match should've just been 1-shot. Brock could've done something else at Mania.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Silverthorn said:


> And Lesnar just leaves even though he beat the face of the company and the only man who wouldn't acquiesce to his demands?


It doesn't make sense but at least Lesnar wouldn't go into his first match with HHH with a loss.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Silverthorn said:


> The Cena loss was alright for me. The Triple H loss was bad, but the match never should've happened in the first place.


This is exactly how feel even though I didn't have a problem with Trips winning either. I also didn't mind Cena's speech if it was intended for him to take time off but I'll admit that Cena's speech didn't do Brock any favors.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed W/ the notion that Summerslam should have been a one off. Brock won 100 percent clean and decisively broke HHH's arm, there was absolutely no fucking need for the Mania XXIX or Extreme Rules matches to take place booking wise despite how much I adore both matches. I have no problem with HHH winning the rematch if Brock came out as the victor except for a few things;

- it seemed as if the Mania match took place only so that Trips could win, & the Extreme Rules match took place only so Brock could get a win back. Just didn't feel like a real feud at all TBH.

- If Rock/Brock happens, there's 0 percent that Brock wins now. If Trips was willing to put Brock over twice then it probably meant that Brock had SOMEWHAT of a chance as opposed to 0. Rock/Brock is just as predictable as Brock/Taker at this point, and I don't see how anybody can argue that at this point in time.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena coming back the next night like nothing happened must've been terrible but like I said I zoned out all the shit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Since we all love talking about DA GAME so much, here are some details on his new DVD. 



> *WWE will release a new Triple H biography on Tuesday, September 24th.
> 
> Promising to delve into The Game’s entire career with an in-depth documentary, the new feature is coming on both DVD and Blu-ray formats. We can now exclusively reveal the official synopsis for the set and first details of what to expect.
> 
> ...


http://www.wwedvdnews.com/details-triple-h-dvd-blu-ray-documentary/43201/

An insta-buy for everybody in here I'm sure.

:HHH2

@Silverthorn - Yep, that is true. Brock/Taker would have been ideal but for whatever reason they didn't go for it. Meh. It is what it is now. As much as the Cena win bugs me, I still absolutely ADORE the match itself and the performances from both of them in it. *****3/4* all the way. Only thing preventing it from that extra *1/4** is, of course, the finish lol. On the same token, I love the SS match and like the cage match too. Can't speak on WM just yet as I've only seen it once.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Triple H DVD coming out later this year is going to be the first WWE DVD that I wait outside of a store for on a cold Tuesday morning release day. I'll then proceed to take the entire day of classes off to go home and watch/review the entire fucking thing so I can have an entire review up of it the night of it's release.

Can't. Fucking. Wait.

100 dollars says that the last match on the set is the Wrestlemania XXIX match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> The Triple H DVD coming out later this year is going to be the first WWE DVD that I wait outside of a store for on a cold Tuesday morning release day. I'll then proceed to take the entire day of classes off to go home and watch/review the entire fucking thing so I can have an entire review up of it the night of it's release.
> 
> Can't. Fucking. Wait.
> 
> 100 dollars says that the last match on the set is the Wrestlemania XXIX match.


You won't be waiting alone 8*D. 

Stoked as hell for this DVD since we're getting a proper documentary release this time. And I hope to God the WM match isn't on it. Give us SS or even ER. I hate them putting WM matches on DVD's. Everybody buys WM. We don't need 2 copies of the same match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fully Loaded 2000 & Judgment Day 2000 PLZ.

Expecting a fucking ton of repeats on it just to piss me off.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Those would be nice. I'd also like to see some TV stuff on there too since we don't really have a lot of HHH TV matches on DVD's. Will be interesting to see if they include the quad tear match. If there's anybody with the pull to get Benoit on their DVD this is the guy. It's also an integral part of his career and you would think that he would want it on there, all this despite the fact that the match itself is fantastic.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I can't wait for the HHH DVD and hearing all this from his mouth:

"Welcome to ladies and gentlemen to the DVD to bury all DVDs"

"Losing to Warrior at Mania was the worst experience of my life, and I vowed that when my plan came together and I was sleeping with the boss' daughter, that I would use every bit of power I have to put that onto other wrestlers."

"RVD lost to me because there was no way I was going to let some jobber who wrestled with a pony-tail beat me in my first match as World Champion on Pay Per View."

"I let HBK beat me at Survivor Series with the understanding that I'd get the title back a month later."

"Booker T lost at Mania 19 cause he was black."

"By the time I lost to Goldberg, I had held the title so long I didn't mind giving into his ego and letting him have a small title run. Plus I respect the burying power he has and decided to give him one last meal before I crushed him. Plus I made sure I was the only one to pin him in his run here, so it's all good."

"I wanted to show the world how I was the face of Raw even without the title, so I let Benoit take it so I could continue main eventing without the strap and show that it's irrelevant unless it's around my waist."

"Vince wanted someone to take the "Youngest World Champion in history" title off Lesnar, and so I nominated Orton since he was in my group. I realized though it was time though for me to get back the World Title when Vince didn't let my match main event Summerslam, and so I buried Orton for doing that."

"Finally, after much searching I found someone perfect to put over as the face of the company. A man who would never surpass my in-ring ability. A man who couldn't possibly become a better mic worker than me. A man who was so untalented that fans would be begging me to take the title and #1 spot back. That man, was Dave Batista."

"Cena ended up becoming the number 1 guy, and without me putting him over either. So in order to compensate, I made sure he beat me at Mania, as no one can be the top face without going through me!"

"Then I turned face and started burying up and coming heels. It'd been awhile since I buried some up and coming star, so doing it to 5 cheerleaders with my bud HBK was the best decision of my life. Then I got to bury my father in-law and more importantly, Shane McMahon, letting him know I was the only son (in-law) of Vince who would gain control of the company."

"By the time No Mercy 2007 rolled around and I returned from my injury, I felt I needed the strap again. Vince wanted to run with Orton as champ for awhile though, so I told him how about I beat Orton in the first match at No Mercy 10 minutes after he gets the title, then wrestle another match against Umaga where I can get weakened, and then that way Orton can take the title back at the end of the night and I can continue to look strong."

"I ended up getting the title back eventually and holding it for 7 months, dominating the B-Show. People thought Jeff Hardy would take the title off me... lol."

"Wrestlemania 25 against Randy Orton was my proudest burial of all time. I, single-handily, destroyed all his momentum and any potential he had of being the top heel for years to come. I (HHH rubs off tear)... I couldn't have asked for a better Wrestlemania Main Event."

"Sheamus was my work-out buddy and he was about as white as they come, so I made sure he got a WWE Title run and got to face me at Mania and then beat me at Extreme Rules and take me out for many months, after a sneak-attack pre-match of course"

"I come back and my ego hadn't been fed a big star in awhile. So I put my name in the hat for the streak match... meaning I took everyone else's names out of the hat and made sure I was the only one. Of course I wasn't going to end the streak as that's a big draw for Mania nowadays and I'm not THAT selfish to end it, but I made sure to destroy Undertaker so I could look stronger than I've ever looked in my life, and Taker weaker than he'd ever looked."

"Mania 28... no comment. No burial or win on my part."

"Facing Brock, we always knew he'd get the first win and I'd get the second win, beating him on the biggest stage of all-time in front of the Metlife crowd. The crowds being dead for our match at Mania was disappointing, but I guess they just can't enjoy a near-perfect burial as much as I thought."

"When I become CEO, I'll make sure I win all the belts at some point."


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Gamblor so mad at Trips. 

:HHH2

I have a feeling you'll be one of the first people to buy it, just so you can bash it lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Gamblor so mad at Trips.
> 
> :HHH2
> 
> I have a feeling you'll be one of the first people to buy it, just so you can bash it lol.


Yep, I'll be one of the first to get it, and then make a video burying it by showing different ways on how to destroy it. Or maybe I'll just take a sledgehammer to it. :buried


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Hyped as fuck for DA GAME DVD, as already mentioned hopefully there's some matches on there that haven't been released on sets before rather than loads of repeats.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just watching Brock's initial return, shame everyone knew he was coming though. When he kicked
Cena's cap


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

zep81 said:


> Just watching Brock's initial return, shame everyone knew he was coming though. When he kicked
> Cena's cap


I didn't know about it, i spent the whole night wondering why they were chanting his name.
When Cena was talking i was hoping for the Rock to come out and for Cena to attack him turning heel.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bme said:


> I didn't know about it, i spent the whole night wondering why they were chanting his name.
> When Cena was talking i was hoping for the Rock to come out and for Cena to attack him turning heel.


I heard a rumor from a friend that he was returning at Mania, when he didn't, i was expecting him on Raw. Shame really, wish i never knew either


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Those would be nice. I'd also like to see some TV stuff on there too since we don't really have a lot of HHH TV matches on DVD's. Will be interesting to see if they include the quad tear match. If there's anybody with the pull to get Benoit on their DVD this is the guy. It's also an integral part of his career and you would think that he would want it on there, all this despite the fact that the match itself is fantastic.


If they can get some BENOIT in that DVD, Hunter is truly the KING OF KINGS! I will happily bow down to the king after that.



Gamblor said:


> I can't wait for the HHH DVD and hearing all this from his mouth:
> 
> "Welcome to ladies and gentlemen to the DVD to bury all DVDs"
> 
> ....


:lmao

For such a huge Punk mark, I'm shocked you didn't include his "burial" involving KLIQ buddy, Nash.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Agreed W/ the notion that Summerslam should have been a one off. Brock won 100 percent clean and decisively broke HHH's arm, there was absolutely no fucking need for the Mania XXIX or Extreme Rules matches to take place booking wise despite how much I adore both matches. I have no problem with HHH winning the rematch if Brock came out as the victor except for a few things;
> 
> - it seemed as if the Mania match took place only so that Trips could win, & the Extreme Rules match took place only so Brock could get a win back. Just didn't feel like a real feud at all TBH.
> 
> - If Rock/Brock happens, there's 0 percent that Brock wins now. If Trips was willing to put Brock over twice then it probably meant that Brock had SOMEWHAT of a chance as opposed to 0. Rock/Brock is just as predictable as Brock/Taker at this point, and I don't see how anybody can argue that at this point in time.


I don't know if I'm happy or bothered by the best of 3 (hopefully no more). On one hand, the story was perfectly ended at SummerSlam with Lesnar gaining back some of his lost momentum and should've moved on. On the other hand, they didn't have a match I truly enjoyed until the cage one.

And yeah, ROCK vs BROCK will obviously end in The Rock winning. Brock even talks about it in his book and how he owed(owes?) Rock a return job after SummerSlam. Although the house show match may or may not be counted for them.

Lastly, for your list, you should use wwe.com if you need good quality pictures. They are lacking when it comes to TV matches pre-2005 (and all PPV matches involving Benoit) but when you find pics, they are great quality.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

re-watched hbk/nash iyh GFBE ***3/4

- top 3 hbk attire
- hbk was GOD in 96

I know we all hear the usual "wwe should go back to this" but they really should bring back the IYH name. Outside of the big 4 and probably elimination chamber and extreme rules, each should be an IYH with its own title.

Wouldn't IYH:king of kings or IYH:return of the BITW etc sound cool


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

IYH: Brock fucks shit up, yeah baby


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

I actually like the idea of IYH in between "major" PPV's and cutting back 4 PPV's. This would further storylines and establish better character development. Unfortunately, I know this won't happen.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fucking hire me WWE :lol but seriously after watching that match I really think they should bring those names back

Some more examples

IYH: The beast incarnate
IYH: battles of the BITW


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Hyped as fuck for DA GAME DVD, as already mentioned hopefully there's some matches on there that haven't been released on sets before rather than loads of repeats.


When is the release of this? Really can't wait for that bio. :HHH


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

why is everybody so interested on HHH's bio when we already know it


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

I'd love to see more of his Terra Ryzin days.


----------



## Coach (May 5, 2013)

Gamblor said:


> I can't wait for the HHH DVD and hearing all this from his mouth:
> 
> "Welcome to ladies and gentlemen to the DVD to bury all DVDs"
> 
> ...


Omfg this is perfect.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm a huge Triple H mark and even I find that post hilarious.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booker T did not lose at WM 19 because he was black. He lost because he suuucks and should have never gotten a world title to begin with .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> When is the release of this? Really can't wait for that bio. :HHH


September 24th :mark:

And that post from Gamblor is gold. 

"Wrestlemania 25 against Randy Orton was my proudest burial of all time. I, single-handily, destroyed all his momentum and any potential he had of being the top heel for years to come. I *(HHH rubs off tear)*... I couldn't have asked for a better Wrestlemania Main Event."

:lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WWE Superstars January 7th 2010

Gail Kim vs Jillian Hall - 1/2*
Ted DiBiase Jr vs Chris Masters - *1/2
Yoshi Tatsu vs Caylen Croft - **
Mike Knox vs Finlay - ***

January 14th

Gail Kim/Primo vs Chavo/Jillian - 1/4*
Chris Masters vs Carlito - *
Jimmy Wang Yang/Slam Master J vs Mike Knox/Charlie Haas - *1/4
Christian vs William Regal - ***

January 21st

Kelly Kelly vs Jillian - DUD
Shelton Benjamin vs Vance Archer - **1/2
Kane vs Chris Jericho - ***

January 28th

Bella Twins vs Jillian/Katie Lea - *1/2
Primo vs Chavo vs Chris Masters - **1/2
DH Smith vs Matt Hardy - *3/4


Thoughts:

- Apparently ever Superstars starts off with a subpar divas match. ~___~

- Goddamn Eve is hot and goddamn Masters was so much better than he was in '05. All of his matches from this month have been very watchable, even if a couple were short.

- Knox/Finlay is an awesome brawl. Both guys just going hard.

- Heh, didn't realize Haas and JWY (or Jesse for that matter) were with the company at this point.

- Christian/Regal was good but they had a much better match in ECW, imo.

- Benjamin/Archer and Jericho/Kane both got pretty solid time. Both were a bit slow paced at times but picked up near the end.

- The triple threat RR qualifying match with Masters/Chavo/Primo is really fun. Primo/Chavo try to take out Masters, Masters comes in and OWNS.

- Wacky R-Truth promo on Jericho.

- Khali and Matt Hardy as a team. Silly times. Decent DH/Hardy match though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watching some old promos and I got to say its actually some what disrespectful to say the rock or scsa are the GOAT mic workers when :flair3 is around. Not saying the other two are bad in anyway and are great. But Natich is on another planet when it comes to the stick man


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2010 SuperStars :mark: I should make a checklist (why is this underlind? Checklist is one word, yeah?).



Callamus said:


> Booker T did not lose at WM 19 because he was black. He lost because he suuucks and should have never gotten a world title to begin with .


LIES. He was pretty damn good during the Goldust tag stuff. He was certainly bloody better than Helmsley was in 2003, at least. Book carried that match and it was barely a good match b/c Trip in 2003 is the worst main event run of anybody in any major US promotion ever and berried people and has a big nose and gets to fuck Steph while we don't and didn't give the world title to Mark Henry and fired Chris Masters and broke Chirs Nowinksi's nose and is why the DVDs you sent six times have never gotten to me and bombed Bali and is the reason nobody gives world peace a chance. BEHOLD THE KING OF KINGS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> For such a huge Punk mark, I'm shocked you didn't include his "burial" involving KLIQ buddy, Nash.



"People thought Nash and I were there to put over Punk, and that gets me every time. Punk was used to simply further mine and Nash's feud and the fact people thought either one of us were going to put over that vanilla non-drawing midget was simply ridiculous. People have to start recognizing true talent, which as Vince would say, is directly proportional to the size of their muscles. I know this as well as he does."


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Daniel Bryan vs Ryback was great. ★★★1/2. :mark: at Daniel Bryan's performance.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Both Bryan's matches tonight get ***1/2. Man just keeps solidifying himself as WOTY more and more each week.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> "I ended up getting the title back eventually and holding it for 7 months, dominating the B-Show. *People thought Jeff Hardy would take the title off me... lol.*"
> 
> "I come back and my ego hadn't been fed a big star in awhile. So I put my name in the hat for the streak match... *meaning I took everyone else's names out of the hat and made sure I was the only one*. Of course I wasn't going to end the streak as that's a big draw for Mania nowadays and I'm not THAT selfish to end it, but I made sure to destroy Undertaker so I could look stronger than I've ever looked in my life, and Taker weaker than he'd ever looked."
> 
> "When I become CEO, I'll make sure I win all the belts at some point."


I'm a huge GAME fan, but these made me laugh.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Thats funny


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Ryback is starting to really improve in the ring. Another good match tonight with Daniel Bryan. I like both guys' characters right now.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Beginning of Raw tonight was really good, unfortunately it was too good too soon. Bryan/Ryback was really good, but everything between 8:00 and 10:05 (CST) was below average, sans Bryan/Ryback. Jericho/Heyman was good, but not great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit that Ryback/Bryan match was awesome, same with the six man tag.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Im X-extremely late but

shield vs hell no and taker ****

how was the usual shield match tonite ?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

MITB 1 (Wrestlemania 21) ****3/4 - This was MOTN for me and even 2nd MOTY. Benoit's selling makes me cringe every time.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★1/2 for the Shield vs Orton & Team Hell NO match tonight with Daniel Bryan being the highlight of the match as usual. What a workhorse D-Bry is. 

The weakest link you say?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk & Danielson fighting it out for the right to be WOTY in 2013?

Punk trying for a three-peat?

Can't wait.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Didn't watch all of Shield vs. Hell No/Orton but Bryan vs. Ryback was awesome again(they had a good SD match a while back too) both guys rock. PPV main event in the future? Cena/Bryan/Ryback in the future maybe?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Daniel Bryan is playing a DEFIANT babyface right now. He oozes fearlessness & tenacity, something that every other current babyface is lacking at the moment. It appears as if a Bryan/Orton or Bryan/Kane program is going to happen leading us into the summer though, who the hell knows for sure where they're going with this; I'm fucking excited.

MITB for Bryan perhaps (WWE Case)?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

No way has Punk had a better year than Danielson.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Daniel Bryan once again tricked people into thinking Ryback is a good wrestler.

I also looked up some Bray Wyatt stuff and I'm excited. If they let him do what he can this will be amazing.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Eh, Punk had great TV matches with Cena and Jericho, MOTN with Taker at Mania, unfortunately two matches with Rock against him. He also carried Ryback to an above average TLC match.

Bryan's matches (lost count) with the Shield have all been terrific, but consider tag matches with Rhodes Scholars at the RR, and Ziggler/Big E at Mania. He's now carried Ryback to TWO very good matches (Smackdown a while back and tonight).

Now, in terms of character work, Punk had a tremendous first part of the year, as you could say he carried the Rock program. Some people may have thought the Taker program was a tad disrespectful or whatever, but Punk embraced whatever he was doing. 

Bryan's intensity has recently been unleashed and he's shown that he's arguably one of the most over guys they've got (maybe the most over). 

As far as consistent match quality, Shield is currently WOTY. Apparently they even had a good match with Brodus/Tensai/Kofi.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I think The Shield is up there with The Rockers and Steiners, as far as quality matches produced. I might be going too far though.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I still have to give the edge to CM Punk as far as WOTY goes. He has produced 2 MOTYC with those matches being Punk vs Cena RAW 2/25/13 and Punk vs Taker WrestleMania 29. But who knows, Daniel Bryan may very well eclipse Punk as WOTY with his consistent performances so far.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Punk/Cena wasn't anywhere near MOTY quality imo. Punk/Taker was, but Bryan's been supremely consistent, so I'm tipping him for WOTY so far.

Uh, Shield is 3 people.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

People always complain about how bad Raw is but I honestly can't. Punk had a fantastic year until he took time off, Bryan has been on fire, The Shield have been amazing and the quality of wrestling has been great all around. We've even got two TV Undertaker matches this year. I'm more than pleased despite what most of this section considers to be the worst shows ever. Until next week's of course. When I look at it this way, the people that entertain me most...

CM Punk - Very high standings, faced Taker at WM, bunch of awesome matches.
Daniel Bryan - Is on fire, workhorsing his way through TV, there's gotta be a pushed lined up.
The Shield - These guys could already have a DVD set.
Dolph Ziggler - WHC despite being out right now due to that concussion.
Antonio Cesaro - 
Ryback - He's growing on me. I like his moveset and he's getting better and better.
Chris Jericho - Putting over younger guys with good potential, still a workhorse.
Christian - WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Shield is ONE unit. The three guys have formed a hell of a team. Reigns, the big beast, Rollins the big risk taker, Ambrose, the crazy and maniacal nutjob. Each guy is crucial to the UNIT's success. 

I recently went back and watched Punk/Cena from February after EC. Match is pretty darn good, and is about top 5 match so far this year.

Edit: I just realized Cesaro wasn't even on the show tonight. And Wade tapped out AGAIN to Miz. 

I still can't behind Ryback. His promos continue to feel like he's just regurgitating lines that he's read and on top of that they're stupid lines. I'll admit he's better in the ring, but he's not been helped by his booking since last summer.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, they're one unit and could be collectively wrestler*s* of the year, but Bryan has been better than any of them individually.



> People always complain about how bad Raw is but I honestly can't. Punk had a fantastic year until he took time off, Bryan has been on fire, The Shield have been amazing and the quality of wrestling has been great all around. We've even got two TV Undertaker matches this year. I'm more than pleased despite what most of this section considers to be the worst shows ever. Until next week's of course. When I look at it this way, the people that entertain me most...


I don't watch RAW, but most weeks there's like 30 minutes worth of stuff that I look up on Youtube. I can see why people watching 3 hours of it would feel like it's a bad show.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The quality of wrestling hasn't been bad at all this year. It's the creative aspect of the product mixed with bad booking that is bad.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> Yeah, they're one unit and could be collectively wrestler*s* of the year, but Bryan has been better than any of them individually.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't watch RAW, but most weeks there's like 30 minutes worth of stuff that I look up on Youtube. I can see why people watching 3 hours of it would feel like it's a bad show.


Yeah, I can understand that. There's certainly parts of it that I don't care for but when you're watching it live sometimes it flows together better. Tonight's show had me captivated enough and when it wasn't, there was baseball, basketball and football for me to watch.

And I had The Shield as my collective WOTY but I think Bryan is by far the #1 WOTY individually and the last week he really proved it.

Agreed, Fandango. I love the matches we've been getting (even really enjoyed Usos/PTP tonight, two teams that generall never get time) but it's certain things that bug me and they're generally in main event storylines.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Man, What i would of given for an Steve Austin vs. Stan Hansen match. That would of been classified as 5 stars before it even happened.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

For whatever reason I was only made aware of WWE's tour of my country today. It's sold out and now I cannot go.

It was apparently announced in February, yet I've seen no mention of it anywhere. DAMMIT.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So I'm still watching 2000s stuff and will be for months, but when that's over I kind of to 'youtube and shit' a bunch of different wrestlers. I made this list up, and plan to do it in this order:

Goldberg 
La Parka in WCW
Too Cool
the Faces o' fuckin' Fear
Tito Santana in WWF
PG-13
Owen & Yoko
Owen & Koko (HA!)
Mike Enos again
Umaga
Mark Henry again
WCW JuviJuice
DOOM
Yokozuna singles again
Bossman/Bubba

I want to add more, but I'm posting to get to get suggestions. Who deserves recognition? Who is someone who you watch and go 'fuck why does no one watch this guy enough!?' I want to watch THOSE kind of guys. I mean Mark Henry and Owen Hart are hardly those kind of guys, but I love Henry and Owen/Yoko is one of my favourite tag teams ever so I just flat out want to watch them in bundles. Basically, I'd like a suggestion that'd make me go 'I would not have thought of that'. Or, hell, just gimme someone you'd like someone else to watch, and I'll give them a shot. I'm all ears.........eyes. I'm not going to say yes if you give me.....well.....fuck....who would I say no to? I kind of want people who wrestled on TV frequently because in most cases I want to look at shorter matches, though. I'll throw in big matches here and there (I want to FINALLY watch all of the Santana/Valentine feud in full, for example), but I like seeing a cool match that only takes up six minutes of my time. I cant really think of a wrestler who wouldn't have that, though, so, I'm all eyes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

STEPHANIE "THE MILF" MCMAHON :mark:. About time they did something to kick start Raw that doesn't make me want to change the channel.

Steph shows up looking hot AND says she won't let HHH wrestle? I think I'm in love.

Oh hai Vince.

I WASN'T BOOING HER VINCE! She's too hot to boo.

Wow, the fans are pricks, aren't they? They find it hilarious when Lesnar destroys him at SummerSlam last year, now they want him to compete despite having Curtis Axel Brain Damage or something? Cunts. Let HHH retire dammit! I'm only looking out for his health. And my viewing enjoyment too. No more HHH + more Stephanie = better Raw.

Fans chanted "one more time" for Kofi going through tables? Well they redeemed themselves there. Fuck the Kofi. Glad he's gonna be off TV.

THE SHIELD. Oh man, Stephanie being hot AND the Shield now? GOAT Raw opening in like, a decade or something.

Well nothing happened. BUUUUUULLLSHIT. Well apparently we could see something on the WWE APP THE GOAT APP IN THE WORLD EVERYONE DOWNLOAD IT AND USE IT ITS THE WWE APP AND ITS AWESOME THE WWE APP ITS THE APP FROM WWE THAT CAN BE DOWNLOADED FROM THE APP STORE BECAUSE ITS AN APP THE WWE APP TO BE MORE PRECISE.

Oh great Orton. Way to kill the mood. BRING BACK STEPHANIE.

DANIEL BRYAN. I guess he'll do instead. FAPFAPFAPFAPFAP.

Fans still loving the fuck out of Bryan :mark:. PUSH HIM FOR FUCKS SAKE. I'm sure Kane can team with someone else randomly like he's done most of his career lol. OMG TONS OF FUNK ARE WATCHING THIS MATCH, AND YOU CAN WATCH THEM WATCHING THIS MATCH WHILE YOU WATCH THIS MATCH ON THE WWE APP OMG THIS IS AMAZING I WISH I HAD THE WWE APP.

Bah, not enough Bryan in this one. I'm no Kane hater but fuck he slowed the match down to boring levels once he got in. Orton them comes in and at least the crowd get into it, even if his shit is terrible. ROBOTIC CLOTHESLINES. Oooo I thought the match was getting into the finish. Orton as FIP which gives us the chance for an uber awesome Bryan Hot Tag :mark:.

Damn, this might be the dullest workover THE SHIELD have ever done. Some good stuff here and there from Ambrose but overall, YAWN.

*Rollins gets on top rope ready to murder Orton* Michael Cole: ORTON HAS NO CLUE WHAT'S GOING ON HERE!

Orton: *DROPKICK REVERSAL*

Well done Cole.

HOT TAG TO BRYAN. YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Fun finishing stretch, which unfortunately was probably the only real part of the match worth seeing. Might be the worst of the Shield 6 man tags against people who aren't jobbers . Kane was dull during his main part, then Shield were dull during their work over on Orton. Bryan saved it completely, but it wasn't enough. I R SAD.

Bryan wants respect. I hope he comes out to "You're Gonna Pay".

Oh joy HHH. YEY STEPHANIE. :lmao CURTIS GETTING BURIED. "HE'S NOT WORTH IT".

Uso's. They do nice superkicks. Beyond that I have no idea what they have jobs. The tag division is currently made up of Team Hell No who seem to be splitting up, and The Shield. That's enough. PTP. Urgh. 

AJ LEE. And some other people who can fuck off. 

Must. Not. Laugh. At. Special. People. Especially. The. One. Doing. Cena's. You. Can't. See. Me. Taunt.

I failed and feel little shame.

Why are Sheamus and Sandow feuding? I've seen their in ring segments and shit... but I can't answer that question.

:lmao HHH is leaving despite how much he claimed he was wrestling tonight. COWARD. LOLOLOLOL.

STEPHANIE IS STAYING. YEY. FAPFAPFAP.

"ONE THING FOR SURE, HHH IS HOT". Didn't know Lawler was gay.

BRYAN VS RYBACK II. Ryback says Bryan will be the missing link after tonight. Weird choice for a gimmick change.

So Fandango still has a job.

As does his opponent The Great Khali.

Who is in charge of hiring and firing at WWE these days? 

LOL JIZ. Dammit they still do the match.

So that contract signing was... pointless. Why do people always try to rape Heyman during these things?

AJ LEE. Was wondering if the secret admirer thing was still going on with Kaitlyn. Turns out it is... BUT ONLY ON THE WWE APP. EXCLUSIVE STORYLINES ONLY ON THE WWE APP!

Bryan locking an Indian Death Lock on his opponents then smashing them in the face with elbows is like, the greatest move in wrestling right now. POWERBOMB COUNTERED INTO A NO LOCK! Bryan looked great in the match. He wasn't winning clean, so getting put through a table was a fine ending to give him a DQ win while Ryback looks like a monster.

Curtis Axel Vs Cena. What a main event. I'm totally gonna watch this...

Cena lost by countout or something I think. I'm not sure, I didn't watch it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Raw was hype last night. Steph, Vince, Trips, BRYAN, Shield, BRYAN. Yeah. I liked it. Did I mention DANIEL BRYAN? So on board with this push. I can't remember the last time I wanted a babyface to succeed so much.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Good RAW last night, hope that Steph will make more apeearences in the upcoming months


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Why couldn't Steph put her fut down earlier before the Brock feud and tell Trips he couldn't wrestle then


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Bryan is the mother of all babyfaces. I would really, really struggle to name the last time I was this into a babyface without wanting a heel turn. Probably Punk way back in 2008 - when he won the title - and that was only because I'm a huge Punk mark (everything bar the JBL drinking contest kinda sucked). MAYBE Christian in ECW. 

I'm 100% down for Baby Bryan. Guy is killing it.

Here's a depressing factoid I thought of while watching Raw last night: The Great Khali and Hornswoggle have been on WWE TV for roughly as long as Stone Cold and The Rock actively competed during their original WWE runs.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Fuck, is Bryan the absolute greatest or what?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He fucking did it again, didn't he? 

I'll be watching RAW in a bit. Danielson is the new highlight of life.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After re-watching the short, one month Cena/Brock feud again on YT, man was it so much better and built better than most of the Trips feud, just watched the brawl on Raw when Cena's mouth got busted open, awesome, with the whole locker room coming out and trying to seperate them.

Yeah i know Brock busted himself open in that HHH brawl before the Mania match, but that didnt replicate much in the actual match.

Plus, i dont think (plz dont shoot on me for this lol, i cant remember) Heyman or Brock mentioned afterwards anything about the Cena win etc, so a rematch could be built on that............and for the fucking title IMHO, with Brock getting his win.

But at this moment, a rematch is looking unlikely, id imagine Brock faces Punk at SS, then fucks off 'till Mania when he may face The Rock.

Shame really, i for one would actually welcome a Cena rematch somewhere down the line, but saying that, hasnt Brock signed a 2 year contract? Surely he has many possibilities still left (DO NOT FUCKING EVEN JOKE OR POST A GOD DAMN HHH SMILEY LOL)!!!!!!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fluze said:


> I think The Shield is up there with The Rockers and Steiners, as far as quality matches produced. I might be going too far though.


Yeah, 6 months of matches probably doesn't hold up well against a catalog of years and years of work all over the world... but I understand the hype. 



Yeah1993 said:


> So I'm still watching 2000s stuff and will be for months, but when that's over I kind of to 'youtube and shit' a bunch of different wrestlers. I made this list up, and plan to do it in this order:
> 
> Goldberg
> La Parka in WCW
> ...


BAM BAM Bigelow & Doink the Clown! Heel Doink that is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FACES OF FEAR. :mark:

+1 @Yeah1993 for Mortis, Wrath, & I guess Kronik & Kanyon too b/c they're the same guys.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah so Bryan is fucking awesome. I've only seen the 6 man tag so far (another GREAT match + otherworldly babyface performance from Bryan) but I hear the Ryback match later in the night is just as good if not better. DOUBLE DUTY GREATESS.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Raw was hype last night. Steph, Vince, Trips, BRYAN, Shield, BRYAN. Yeah. I liked it. Did I mention DANIEL BRYAN? So on board with this push. I can't remember the last time I wanted a babyface to succeed so much.


I think it's directly proportional to the last time they actually pushed a babyface as an underdog, rather than just calling them that while having them win constantly. So... Hardy 2008?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson worked twice? Holy crap WWE better not be teasing us with all of this exposure. Guy is an absolute star.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching Rey-Eddie from 3/18/2004, never hear ANYTHING about this match so it'd be nice to get some thoughts on Mysterio Vs Eddie in a face Vs face situation.

Watched The Halloween Havoc 1997 match yesterday, it's fucking great but I don't see the hype man. Eddie was oozing with douchebaggery in the match & I felt Rey was a great babyface, but it never really seemed to materialize into anything more than MOVES. It still rules but, idk.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Danielson worked twice? Holy crap WWE better not be teasing us with all of this exposure. Guy is an absolute star.


Yeah, I'd explain more but I know you hate spoilers.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

catching up on shield tv matches because I always miss them but Im never really paying attention to raw fully

hell no taker vs shield ****

hell no cena vs shield 5/13 **** 1/4 (my fav so far)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The story wasn't so much on the overall character work. It was on Rey's babyface performance, Eddie's heel work, & all of it formed under the norm of a WCW style Cruiserweight offering. Aka a pretty display of wonderful looking moves/sequences not seen by other wrestlers on the roster. Not to mention it was '97 and their history vs one another was in its infancy. By the time they got to 2005, both were even better as overall workers (especially Eddie, good lord) so their July Smackdown match was able to mop the floor with all of their past matches on that account and others you can bring up.

All I know is, I don't think there is a match between the two I dislike. Even the Ladder match - while nothing too special - is fine by me.

@TLK - Thanks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that given the circumstances it was placed in (horrible storyline, having to work your match around interference by two non-company family members, one of which doesn't even show up when they're supposed to), it was actually pretty fucking great. Eddie's heel performance goes quite unnoticed in that match due to the ton of bullshit that goes down & it pales in comparison to the rest of the 2005 series bar Wrestlemania (which always throws me off although the hate on the match is quite exaggerated), but yeah I can see why somebody would hate it. It's like the second worst match I've ever seen from the two but.... It's still really good given the circumstances.

Watched the 3/18/2004 match, fucking fantastic stuff. It's not exactly 2005 or even 1997 material due to it being face Vs face, but Rey and Eddie tore the fucking house down with what they were able to accomplish, STEEL CAGE MATCH incoming.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Aside from the bullocks story plot & botched Vickie finish, the match went the route of having to need spots to create the atmosphere more than it did rely on the storytelling done by both men in their previous 2005 matches. Which isn't a horrible fault on their part, just an unfortunate one considering the way the other matches went up to that point. 

Only saw the Steel Cage match once. Remember the finish and that's it. I must see it again.

You know what match from 2005 isn't anything special? Cena vs JBL I Quit match. Again, easy to watch, no real gripes on it being "omg this sucks" or anything. It truly isn't special though. You got Cena bleeding like a motherbitch and then that's about it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually have their 3/18/04 as Second best of their complete series just a work of art. HH 97 is a great match but I like how you said it was just MOVEZ because it felt like it a bit. However the match is so crisp in smooth it compensates it greatly.

Rey/eddie series top 3

1)6/25/05
2)3/18/04
3) HH 97


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Judgment Day '05 is a top three match for me. Even with the faded memories of the Cage & the '04 Post WM 20 match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Obfuscation's thoughts on this topic plz: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/smackdown/829201-big-e-damn-good-ring.html

And I've really been out of the product ever since Extreme Rules, I've missed two RAW's and I never really watch Smackdown, but for some reason, some stupid reason, I stayed up and watched RAW last night and it was crap as usual. Cena/Ryback feud sucks, it started off interesting but now it's just boring me to tears, World Title picture is non-existent due to Ziggler being out, can't wait until he gets back. Curtis Axel is so bland and boring, this push is ridiculous. And despite being a fan of The Shield, I just don't care for their 6 man tag matches anymore, how many 6 man tags have they had now? 15? It's mostly just the same old stuff every match, I've missed a few of them lately but I feel I haven't missed anything at all. I MUCH prefer watching the Shield in singles matches just because it more fresh, and they can show more of themselves as individuals. Dean Ambrose is my favorite out of the three, I like his mannerisms and in-ring style which he can show more when he's in singles matches, and I might have to check out his match with Orton on Smackdown in full, saw a few minutes of the match on Youtube but not the full thing.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not a fan of the Bryan storyline, Nostalgia?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All I can say about Langston is he's a better babyface than a heel. Wouldn't call him good at any stretch of the imagination. I think he may be better than Kofi Kingston & R-Truth already. _(you know, the known really bad guys on the roster)_ Which is more than I expected from him.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Not a fan of the Bryan storyline, Nostalgia?


No. Though, it's better to have him get more serious over being a silly comedy character, but Bryan needs to shave off that beard and get a haircut because he just looks ridiculous currently. If WWE want him to become more of a serious character, and someone that people take more seriously, then he needs a look that matches his new direction. 

This look was not only his best look, but it would be ideal for his current storyline. 












Obfuscation said:


> All I can say about Langston is he's a better babyface than a heel. Wouldn't call him good at any stretch of the imagination. I think he may be better than Kofi Kingston & R-Truth already. _(you know, the known really bad guys on the roster)_ Which is more than I expected from him.


Are you talking strictly from a character perspective? Because his face work on NXT he's decent at and it suits him better imo. But his matches? Well I haven't really watched much of his stuff on NXT, but I remember you shitting on his work there, but his matches with Del Rio, from what little I've seen, show he's improving in the ring and this experience is helping him, so Ziggler's injury has actually helped Langston out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia you must see Rollins & Reigns vs Danielson & Kane for the tag championship on RAW. Also Hell No & Kingston vs Shield. Those two are WELL worth the time to see. Much, much more so than most of their singles matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia I can see your point, and can also see that becoming reality. Bryan might finally reach a breaking point where he shaves/gets a haircut to complete the transformation.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I mean Im not as high on dbryan as most on this site are, I see the technical ability and natural charisma but by GAWd he has to cut his hair and beard. I really dont care for wrestlers looks like :vince but I just cant take him serious. HIs look when he first got to the wwe was his best imo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Are you talking strictly from a character perspective? Because his face work on NXT he's decent at and it suits him better imo. But his matches? Well I haven't really watched much of his stuff on NXT, but I remember you shitting on his work there, but his matches with Del Rio, from what little I've seen, show he's improving in the ring and this experience is helping him, so Ziggler's injury has actually helped Langston out.


His personality is trash no matter which alignment he's under. Keep that man away from the mic at all times. Although, I have found him easier to stomach as a bland talking face. Less obnoxious - enter the lesser of two evils variety.

He's not good at anything really, but being a face does suit him better. He's just had the advantage of working vs better faces while on the main roster than working with heels while on NXT. His work vs Del Rio for example was very poor. His control segments weren't interesting and it wasn't until the work was back and forth did the match become interesting. Whereas it seems to be better suited for him to take a licking by opponents as a face, get the sympathy from the fans, and work on a power comeback.

Don't see the relevancy between Dolph's injury and this. Langston would have been _"improving"_ no matter what via live events/NXT. All this did was give him non-squash matches on TV. Something the company should have been doing pre-Ziggler injury in order to make the main roster crowds actually try and react to the guy. Not be that big dude who's with Ziggler and does nothing.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Going to Smackdown tonight. Never been to one before, so it should be cool. Looking forward to Bryan, and Sandow's segment (which he mentioned on Raw). Also Sheamus/Cesaro for Main Event should be cool and I'll let you all know how that is. I'll give you one spoiler for right now though:



Spoiler: for Main Event



Sheamus wins


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Bryan Summer is coming


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Summer of Danielson - PLEASE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You watch Raw yet, Cody? Anticipating your reaction here.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive seen it all now :lol got red rep for saying I was shocked in not alot of ppl naming flair as best on the mic in the best in each category thread


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Skipped through Raw, seems to be how i watch all of WWE nowadays. shame that.

There's some good in ring work here and there but it's all so samey, that's why Shield are so unique and exciting in today's WWE. They are indeed a breath of fresh air and always bring the goods in their matches. and BRYAN also bringing more than the goods.

SAVE.US.PUNK

Also the promos for Bray Wyatt have me :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> You watch Raw yet, Cody? Anticipating your reaction here.


Waiting for my brother to get back then I'm going to check it out. (Y)


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

FCW is just brilliant. A fuck load of brilliant matches, wouldn't mind a Best of FCW DVD in a few years. Chances of it happening, though? (N)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Incredibly doubtful with there being no more FCW.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fear The Fury: Brock Lesnar's Top 25 Matches Ever (15-11)


15. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (No Holds Barred; Wrestlemania XXIX)










(NO BROCK! PUT DOWN THE STEEL STEPS!)

Oh, here's a match that went up a ton of points in my book on a rewatch for sure. When I first saw this, I thought that it was melodramatic garbage in which Trips had perhaps the worst babyface performance I've ever seen from him in, so what exactly changed? Well for one, I came out and acknowledged that obvious fact that this match had a certain sense of chaotic violence that we haven't seen in quite a while. I mean, these two guys alongside HBK who plays quite the role in the match taking a perfect F-5 went out there and fucking KILLED each other. Triple H's babyface comeback wasn't the greatest and I'll openly come out and admit that it never seemed like he was in any real peril throughout the bout (and I'm not a fan of the last 5-6 minutes which are nothing but pure HHH offense and nothing else), but this was the ultimate Brock showcase; his mannerisms were on point, he was as stiff in this match as ever, & he looked motivated as hell to go out there and destroy whatever was in sight. Violence was the name of the game and if you can put the stupid booking decision behind you than maybe you could enjoy this one more. The second best match on the card @ Wrestlemania XXIX behind the astonishing Punk Vs Taker.

*~ *** 3/4*


14. Brock Lesnar Vs Hulk Hogan (Smackdown 2002; never wrote down the exact date)










(My stomach is about to sputter out of my mouth BROTHER)

Brock the beast. Those three words encapsulate what this match meant to the career of Brock Lesnar 'the next big thing' than I can really elaborate on; it made Brock look like a legit monster. If you ever need evidence of how having Paul Heyman in your corner can help add to the overall story being told in a match, look no further than how Paul plays up the overall significance of Brock going up against arguably the biggest name in professional wrestling history, and how big of a deal he makes Brock Lesnar look like after this one. The match itself is tremendous; Brock fires off his biggest shots only for Hogan to be the first person to throw them back, all the way to Heyman's reaction to when Hogan Hulk's up; "HE'S HULK HOGAN BROCK! HE'S DIFFERENT!". When it comes to Hogan's 2000s run I always felt that this was easily his best match, & perhaps even his best match since the 1994 Halloween Havoc cage with Ric Flair, while this also happened to be Brock's first match that I have at four stars. Hogan gets destroyed, Brock looks like an animal, what is there not to adore?

*~ *****


13. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (WWE Championship - Survivor Series 2002)










(How to have a four star match in less than five minutes: THE MOVIE)

Want to know the recipe to having the greatest WWF/WWE match ever to take place under a five minute span? Well here's how you do it; take two huge motherfuckers with one being a monster heel and one being an athletic freak of nature & let them beat the piss out of one another. Let them go as fast as possible for the shortest amount of time, & hell; let's throw in some awesome ribwork to go along with it. Sounds fucking legit to me, as Big Show & Brock put on a performance so magnificent that it should probably be everyone's go to match for a quick wrasslin' fix (this or Hardy-Edge, take your pick). This is less BROCK SMASH and more 'holy fucking jesus they're killing each other!' type material, so get out there and watch this like right fucking now to see Big Show go HAM and Brock going UBER-FUCKING HAM. Go watch it, it'll take like 4 minutes and you'll be ranting and raving about it as I am right now. If only they had a longer version of this match ........ Oh wait.........

*~ ***** 


12. Brock Lesnar Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 12/11/2003)










(Rey: "Yeah, I'm fucking dead. Oh well.")

Let's see here; my WOTY in 2003 & arguably the greatest monster heel in WWE lore going up against perhaps the greatest babyface to ever step foot in a WWE ring in his hometown trying to knock off the beast? This MIGHT be good. In all honesty though, this fucking ruled and it was due to taking a simple formula and using two of the most talented guys in their respective roles that I have ever seen to plug it into. Brock is such a fucking monster in this, while Rey ducks the shit out of Lesnar; frustrating the shit out of him in the process. The story here is that Rey must be swift or he'll fucking DIE at the hands of the animalistic Brock, and I felt that Rey really sold his performance as the babyface in peril who is confident enough to believe in himself that he can really stop the monster. This was the second week in a row that Lesnar was straight up MONEY in the ring, with the match a week before this being even better than this match in question. Seriously though, if you're a fan of either guy and you haven't seen this; dafuckyouwaitin' for?

*~ *****


11. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Steel Cage Match; Extreme Rules 2013)










(Not pictured: Triple H's spine spontaneously imploding under Brock's mighty chairshot)

This match picked up right where the Wrestlemania bout between Hunter and Brock left off but somehow managed to make it even better. They really tried to make this match different from the other two encounters, and I felt that both Brock and Game elevated their performances to give closure to this feud (I.E having HHH attack Brock during his entrance and shit). They really made the cage feel and seem important again, & I felt that Triple H's performance was miles and miles ahead of it was at XXIX with him taking more of a beating and having to find a weak spot in Brock in order to really beat him (this time it was his knee) which Brock sells so fucking well. I swear to god that Brock can sell better than anybody else in the entire company when he's called upon to do so. This match had all sorts of excitement and shit with the sledgehammer spot being something that I really enjoyed. It's so much different than the Summerslam & Wrestlemania encounters but that's what I always found so beautiful about their series of matches together while others may completely hate it. This was fantastic, fantastic work and Brock once again saves the day with another epic performance (though not as good as his Mania performance if that makes any sense).

*~ *****


*The List So Far*

11. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Extreme Rules 2013)
12. Brock Lesnar Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 2003)
13. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Survivor Series 2002)
14. Brock Lesnar Vs Hulk Hogan (Smackdown 2002)
15. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIX)
16. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2003)
17. Brock Lesnar Vs Giant Bernard (NJPW 2006)
18. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
19. Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit Vs Team Angle (No Way Out 2003)
20. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (6/12/2003 Smackdown)
21. Brock Lesnar Vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)
22. Brock Lesnar Vs Manabu Nakanishi (NJPW 2005)
23. Brock Lesnar Vs Ric Flair (RAW 2002)
24. Brock Lesnar Vs Akebono (NJPW 2006)
25. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Royal Rumble 2003)

brockbrock:brock​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart vs 'Mr Perfect' Curt Hennig - KOTR 1993

3/4

:yes

I dont fucking care, i LOVE this match, as much as the SS'91 matchup, its just awesome, and Hennan was right in commentary - "This is wrestling"


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was there for the SD match vs Rey. Was quite the spectacle.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Lesnar/HHH from mania shouldn't be on any best matches list. **1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:brock

Do we have any other :brock smileys or just the one? We need more tbh. Enjoying the list as always KOK.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I honestly don't remember a single thing about Show/BROCK from SVS 2002. I own the DVD, too.  Better change that asap.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Glad it isnt just me who really likes Lesnar's match with Hogan, Brock played his character so well, loved him man-handling Hogan, yeah i really liked it and would agree with the **** rating


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> 14. Brock Lesnar Vs Hulk Hogan (Smackdown 2002; never wrote down the exact date)
> 
> Brock the beast. Those three words encapsulate what this match meant to the career of Brock Lesnar 'the next big thing' than I can really elaborate on; it made Brock look like a legit monster. If you ever need evidence of how having Paul Heyman in your corner can help add to the overall story being told in a match, look no further than how Paul plays up the overall significance of Brock going up against arguably the biggest name in professional wrestling history, and how big of a deal he makes Brock Lesnar look like after this one. The match itself is tremendous; Brock fires off his biggest shots only for Hogan to be the first person to throw them back, all the way to Heyman's reaction to when Hogan Hulk's up; "HE'S HULK HOGAN BROCK! HE'S DIFFERENT!". When it comes to Hogan's 2000s run I always felt that this was easily his best match, & perhaps even his best match since the 1994 Halloween Havoc cage with Ric Flair, while this also happened to be Brock's first match that I have at four stars. Hogan gets destroyed, Brock looks like an animal, what is there not to adore?
> 
> *~ *****












Then spits on Hogan, classic 

Bit surprised (or maybe not lol), at the inclusion of the ER2013 match with Trips, as i've posted my fustrations on here before, i hated it, apart from Brock;s GOAT-esque selling of course, but that's another story


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh shoot I missed KOK pimping out Brock vs Giant Bernard on the list.

Backtracking here I come.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For anyone in the US, if you're around a place called MovieStop (the movie equivalent of Gamestop), DEFINITELY check it out. Buy 2 Get 1 Free for Sports (WWE/TNA) dvds, so what did I decide to do? Buy 6. 

Royal Rumble 2005
Summerslam 2005
Survivor Series 2005
Judgment Day 2006
Rey Mysterio: 619 (for the Psychosis match & the 2002 Smackdown bouts :mark
ECW: Extreme Rules (bloodsplatter cover, has WWECW matches from '06. FLAIR vs. BIG SHOW)

EDIT: By the way, this was all just $22.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumble & SummerSlam '05 + Judgment Day '06?

Well, you hit the jackpot.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:

Good to hear. Rumble '05 is one of the shows I had years back but sold, so I'll gladly take that back. Summerslam '05 hasn't been viewed since it aired. Survivor Series has been one I've wanted to see for quite some time. Never seen JD '06 but heard lots of good things and the lineup looks rock solid. The other two are just random choices but will certainly be full of gems.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> For anyone in the US, if you're around a place called MovieStop (the movie equivalent of Gamestop), DEFINITELY check it out. Buy 2 Get 1 Free for Sports (WWE/TNA) dvds, so what did I decide to do? Buy 6.
> 
> Royal Rumble 2005
> Summerslam 2005
> ...


they dont have those up here in jersey.My area has really cut down on the mom and pop movie stores just main stream ones.

Edit: there is actually a guy on YT that has every rumble since 2004 I think I can give a link if anyone wants it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam '05 holds up - trust me and anyone else who watches it. Matt Hardy vs Edge, bro. HARDY VS EDGE. Not to mention Taker vs Orton & Cena vs Jericho. :mark:

Judgment Day is rock solid. Top to bottom. Well the bottom (first two matches) begin the show on the highest note possible. MNM vs Team ROH owns and then it's Finlay vs Benoit. Need I say more? Women's is tolerable with a crowd that's hot for it, Cruiserweight match was good with two good talents, Angle vs Henry is awesome, Booker vs Lashley happens and it sucks & then the the show goes back to normal with a fine Khali PPV debut vs Taker, & a good JBL vs Mysterio match with some prime performances from both. Yet the match isn't THAT great, it's got strong performances. So, how about that for something perplexing. Maybe you'll love it. 

(Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> His personality is trash no matter which alignment he's under. *Keep that man away from the mic at all times*. Although, I have found him easier to stomach as a bland talking face. Less obnoxious - enter the lesser of two evils variety.


Reminded me of this:






:lol



Obfuscation said:


> Don't see the relevancy between Dolph's injury and this. Langston would have been _"improving"_ no matter what via live events/NXT. All this did was give him non-squash matches on TV. Something the company should have been doing pre-Ziggler injury in order to make the main roster crowds actually try and react to the guy. Not be that big dude who's with Ziggler and does nothing.


With Ziggler been totally out of the picture for the past month or so, it's given Langston much more exposure and working with good wrestlers like Del Rio in decent length, back-and-forth matches is going to help him improve no doubt, quick squash matches on NXT aren't. 

Agreed on that last sentence.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> :brock
> 
> Do we have any other :brock smileys or just the one? We need more tbh. Enjoying the list as always KOK.












Brock loves bad bitches that's his fuckin' problem.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Enjoying the Brock matches, and wish I had time to check some of them out. Maybe soon. I really enjoyed the cage match, and I know some people take issue with Brock being the one to sell an injury, and to have Heyman interfere, but without Paul we wouldn't have had Brock's memorable, "that's my manager!". 

Looking forward to more Steph/Trips/Vince segments, and Steph calling Triple H "Paul". Dat real life.

Here's a GOAT thread, BTW. http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/831457-rock-has-revived-cm-punks-career.html :rockunk3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think everyone knows Rey/Eddie from 05 is my favourite match ever, but I don't think it's as good as Halloween Havoc. I absolutely do not see it and have not ever seen it as 'just movez'. And when hitting SAID moves they were *crazy* clean hitting them. It's ridiculous how gorgeously they executed all of their shit. I think they themselves realized that and then tried to top it at other PPVs, and botched a couple of spots. If the Havoc match happened in WWF I'd probably call it the greatest WWE match of all time.




Jack Evans 187 said:


> BAM BAM Bigelow & Doink the Clown! Heel Doink that is.


I actually thought of Doink weeks ago and he slipped my mind. I cannot thank you enough for giving me a reminder because I was/am fucking amped to check out more Doink. DOINK! Bam Bam sounds like fun, too, and he worked a bunch of promotions. 



Obfuscation said:


> +1 @Yeah1993 for Mortis, Wrath, & I guess Kronik & Kanyon too b/c they're the same guys.


I should do Mortis and Wrath, huh. I always see a cool Mortis and Wrath match and I'm like 'MORTIS AND WRATH MATCH WAS GREAT' and never watch another Mortis and Wrath match. I will watch more Mortis and Wrath.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> *I think everyone knows Rey/Eddie from 05 is my favourite match ever, but I don't think it's as good as Halloween Havoc. I absolutely do not see it and have not ever seen it as 'just movez'. And when hitting SAID moves they were *crazy* clean hitting them. It's ridiculous how gorgeously they executed all of their shit. I think they themselves realized that and then tried to top it at other PPVs, and botched a couple of spots. If the Havoc match happened in WWF I'd probably call it the greatest WWE match of all time.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IDK if you were referring to my comments or not, but yea I said it was one of if not the "cleanest" "hard hitting" "crisp" executed moves that Ive ever seen


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I saw one or two people says it was kinda of 'movezy'. I'm pretty sure I did, anyway. Might have misread, who knows, and I don't feel like going back to find the posts.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Matt Bourne Doink up until SummerSlam 93 is excellent. Get on top of that shit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea np im not calling you out or anything :lol idk I guess "movez" wasn't the proper word to use in describe it but I didnt want to say it wasn't character driven


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have HH 97 on the same tier as the Judgment Day & Great American Bash matches.

Always thought that the HH match was perhaps the "cleanest" match that I've ever seen in where two guys did so many moves that had a slim margin of error, but I thought that Judgment Day & GAB both featured the juicier performances in terms of complete storytelling. The Great American Bash is more "verbal" than the other matches but I'm a bigger advocate for it then most, while Judgment Day already gets a world of praise from me. I believe in my heart that 6/23/2005 destroys anything else they ever did though, but to be fair.. It destroys pretty much every single match in WWF/WWE history bar MAYBE 7 to 12 for me.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Bret Hart vs 'Mr Perfect' Curt Hennig - KOTR 1993
> 
> 3/4
> 
> ...


Yup. Damn good match. ★★★★3/4 for that match as well. I also liked his match with Bam Bam that night.



Srdjan99 said:


> The Bryan Summer is coming


The Summer couldn't come any sooner







(I'm gonna abuse the shit out of this smiley :lol).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret also had a pretty damn good match with Hall the very same night. I find it absolutely insane that he came out and wrestled two great matches and one fantastic match in one night, w/ Bret Vs Perfect being my 1993 WWF MOTY by fucking FAR. Always liked it more than I enjoyed the Summerslam 91 match which I fucking ADORE.

Bret Vs Perfect <3.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the in ring wresting in KOTR is alitte better, but with feud atmosphere, and commentary make ss 91 better to me

LOVE their summerslam match Perfect :mark: :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Bret was insane that night. Putting on two fun gems with Razor and Bam Bam and also putting on what was a damn-near masterpiece of a match with Mr. Perfect? Surreal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> With Ziggler been totally out of the picture for the past month or so, it's given Langston much more exposure and working with good wrestlers like Del Rio in decent length, back-and-forth matches is going to help him improve no doubt, quick squash matches on NXT aren't.
> 
> Agreed on that last sentence.


Booking could have used Langston even with Ziggler around. That's my point. It shouldn't have took Ziggler having to sit at home for the company to try and show Langston more on TV.



Yeah1993 said:


> I think everyone knows Rey/Eddie from 05 is my favourite match ever, but I don't think it's as good as Halloween Havoc. I absolutely do not see it and have not ever seen it as 'just movez'. And when hitting SAID moves they were *crazy* clean hitting them. It's ridiculous how gorgeously they executed all of their shit. I think they themselves realized that and then tried to top it at other PPVs, and botched a couple of spots. If the Havoc match happened in WWF I'd probably call it the greatest WWE match of all time.
> 
> I should do Mortis and Wrath, huh. I always see a cool Mortis and Wrath match and I'm like 'MORTIS AND WRATH MATCH WAS GREAT' and never watch another Mortis and Wrath match. I will watch more Mortis and Wrath.


Halloween Havoc always holds up for me, but I've grown to have the Smackdown '05 match over it by a hair. Probably my favorite spot ever is from Havoc though. Rey's tope con hilo into the flawless head scissors to the floor. Un-friggin-believable.

You really can't go wrong. Their tag matches were a delight during '97. Not to mention Wrath has managed to have enough underrated bouts post-Mortis teaming too. Including singles match vs MENG on PPV. But as long as you watch Faces of Fear vs Mortis & Wrath from Fall Brawl '97 - I'll be one happy HayleySabin/Ofus./Cody guy.

-----------

Oh and watched RAW. Lots of shit on it. Then there was Danielson, Shield, Sheamus, & Danielson again. How the company manages to make the most from these guys while the rest rots before our very eyes is unusual. Danielson motherlickers. The man is IT.

Sheamus vs Cesaro on Main Event this week. That better not be changed or else I'll murder something.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So my thoughts from Smackdown/Main Event



Spoiler: SD/MAIN EVENT SPOILERS FOR 6/5 AND 6/7. DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED



OH MEH GAWD!

So I just got back from Smackdown, here's my thoughts/spoilers:

MizTV was... forgettable. Truth be told all I remember really from it is Kane walking out and Long making a tag match... actually I don't remember Long making the tag match, I just assume he did since that's what ended up being the main event.

Axel beat Jericho, but the story of the night is WE HEARD CM PUNK'S MUSIC PLAY! :mark: :mark: :mark: ! Then Jericho beat up Axel, though that may or may not make air.

Del Rio beat up 3MB, and Ziggler, the World Champ, tells us he's cleared to compete and will be on Raw. TBH I forgot there was a World Title the last few weeks and I almost forgot he was champion since he didn't even have the belt.

Ryback beat Kane like he beat Bryan on Raw... only the match wasn't anywhere near as good.

SANDOW was about to play Chess with Deep Blue (?) in the most anticipated Chess-matchup in history! Then Sheamus comes in and ruins it, brogue kicking the computer. But Sandow saves the segments with his owning of us, the LI crowd, and Sheamus, and then beating down Sheamus! I marked tbh. Totally unexpected and while it solidifies Sandow isn't getting a win over Sheamus in this feud... that was solidified anyway, so it's nice Sandow got to get some flurry of offense in. The segment altogether was easily the best of the night.

Main event tag was great, and ORTON TURNED HEEL! At least it seems like that. Crowd went from cheering Orton to almost booing him instantaneously right as he hit that RKO. It was awesome. My 4-year old nephew, who's a big Orton fan, asked me after the match "Why did Bryan get in the way of the RKO?"

Oh, and Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event was good. Not as good as the Barrett/Sheamus match from a week or two ago, but good. Worth checking out. Crowd was very pro-Sheamus.

Biggest Pops:
1) Bryan
2) Sheamus
3) Orton

Biggest Heat (a bit harder to remember):
1) Orton after RKOing Bryan
2) Sandow

And no one else really got any noteworthy heat off the top of my head.

Overall, show ruled. Enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would've.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

6 man was good, Bryan/Ryback was only decent. I'm loving his work recently, but people are exaggerating or maybe just being too hopeful when they say he's going to be a, or even the top star. Never happening. It's sad, but it's true. He will be a comedy/underdog character, similar to Rey Mysterio for I imagine the rest of his career.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ric flair vs Ricky steamboat clash of champions ****3/4

- all three matches (chi town, wrestlewwars, CoC all ****3/4)
- if this was wwe 2nd great series of match behind hbk/taker
- :flair is simply the great professional wrestler who ever lived end of story


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Speaking of Flair, I wrote this about a year ago but I feel strongly enough about all of these matches to keep my sentiments the same; COTC is arguably the greatest North American match ever while Wrestlewar & CTR are top 10 North American matches to me as well, and some of Flair's finest work (excluding his stuff with Windham of course, that's fucking awesome as well). The 'End of an Era' comparison I made about Flair-Funk is completely outdated as I don't feel that the HIAC is anywhere remotely near Flair-Funk anymore, but besides that I thought all of the reviews were solid.


*Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat: The Trilogy*

_Match 1: Chi Town Rumble: February 20th, 1989_

We see Flair entering the ring with his manager Hiro Matsuda, amongst a plethora of women who proceed to kiss and give roses to Flair, while Steamboat previously entered with his wife and son. They are really playing up the whole "Womanizer vs Family Man" story here. The match begins and steamboat gets a very nice shoulder block on Flair, which leads us to believe that Steamboat has the strength and speed advantage over the champion. They begin to chop it out here, and MAN are those chops loud. Flair, of course bails because he has no idea what to do with Steamboats physical advantage. We get some beautiful mat wrestling by both men, until at one point Flair has Steamboat backed into a corner and we hear a smattering of "Steamboat sucks!" chants, which cause Steamboat to get EXTRA intense with some crazy chops and a beautiful headscissors takedown. A double chop gets a near pinfall.

This scares Flair, who bails out of the ring again. I love the psychology here, as once Flair realizes that he can be caught at any moment and lose the title, he decides to go all full blown HEEL mode, throwing Steamboat outside of the ring, raking the eyes, and various other Flair heel tactics. Flair takes the advantage until Steamboat counters back, which of course makes the crowd EXPLODE. More beautiful chops occur until Flair comes off the top rope in a crossbody, but Steamboat turns him over for the near three count. Flair locks the figure four out of nowhere, and holds it for quite sometime, but gets caught using the ropes as leverage. I love how that sequence sums up this match in a nutshell. Flair knows he must cheat to beat Steamboat, but he cannot cheat without getting caught, thereby compromising himself in a particular position.

Some absolutely wonderful chops and suplexes by both men here, as the workrate is off the charts. Both men are selling the wear of this match superbly, and wrestling at an ubelieveably fast pace, one that I don't think I've ever seen before. Top rope cross body gets three but the referee is down. Flair gets a rollup for three as well, but there is no referee to count. Steamboat is spent (being in semi-retirement for so long), and misses a top rope dive. I absolutely love this character driven end sequence, as Flair realizes that Steamboat is tired and loads up for the Figure Four. Steamboat counters this into a cradle for the three count and the victory. Wow, even better than I have remembered, this is probably the greatest paced match of all time. The build up paid off, the storytelling and psychology are amazing, and the workrate is some of the greatest of all time. What a matchup.

*~ ******


_Match 2: Clash of the Champions VI: April 2nd, 1989_

After watching the Chi-Town Rumble and hearing how Cal said this was the best of the trilogy, I was interested in seeing how this match would pan out. This is a very different match than the Chi-Town Rumble encounter, as that matchup I believe was based more off fast paced emotion and hard hitting moves, whereas this encounter is slightly slower paced, but at 3 times the length, can you really blame them ? This match features maybe the greatest matwork of all time, as the first two falls consist of beautiful headlock takedowns, front facelocks, etc. The diversity of the holds are better in this match also, as Steamboat uses variations of the Boston Crab, standing double armed chicken-wing, and even Flair's own figure four.

The psychology in this match is top notch. before Steamboat locks in the figure four, he makes sure to deliver SIXTEEN elbows to flairs left leg before applying the hold. When Flair begins his work on Steamboats legs in the third fall, Steamboat has some excellent selling that complies with the story that these two men are trying to tell inside of the ring. The logic used in this match, and the throwback to the previous match is great, as at one instance Flair is going to run from turnbuckle to turnbuckle and deliver a cross body like he did in the last match, but Steamboat catches him with a stiff chop instead. That's another thing about this match, the chops are just as solid as the Chi-Town match. The build up in the first two falls to the final fall is tremendous, as I will actually go out and say that the final fall between these two might be the greatest twenty minutes of wrestling ever. MAYBE. 

The way that Flair's leg work leads us to the improbable finish is awesome, as Steamboat goes for the chickenwing hold that made Flair tap out earlier, but his legs just won't allow him to do it, leading us to our non-clean finish that sets up the final match in the trilogy. The Psychology and storytelling are off the charts here. While not as flashy and loud as the Chi-Town Rumble encounter, what it gives us in terms of matwork and storytelling is even better. I didn't want this match to end, seriously, and at 56 minutes of pure greatness, you can't really ask for very much more out of a professional wrestling match. Even better than Chi-Town Rumble.

*~ ******

_Match 3: Wrestlewar: May 7th, 1989_

Here we go, I've heard many individuals (including Triple H) claim that this is the greatest match of all time, lets see how it holds up. The build to this match was greater than any other match in the series, as everyone knew this was the final encounter. They take the womanizer vs family man story to a whole new level, as Flair has about FORTY women accompany him to the ring for his entrance. The first thing I notice about this match is it's pace, they're working at that insane Flair vs Steamboat pace that is unmatched by any two competitors in the industry. The beginning of the match gets the fans more involved than the previous match as well, when Flair and Steamboat duke it out in a chop battle. The chops still aren't as vicious as Chi-Town Rumble, but there are about 10 times more of them. 

Now we get to my favorite part of the match; Steamboats arm work. In the previous match, Steamboat made Flair tap out to the standing chicken wing submission, and in this match, Steamboats offense is centered around working on the left arm of Flair to set up the chicken wing once again. I love how they throwback to the previous matches and add certain elements to it. For instance, just like the other two matches, Steamboat teases a dive outside of the ring onto Flair, but the referee stops him everytime. However, in this match when the referee goes to stop Steamboat, Steamboat pushes the referee out of the way and begins to get aggressive. The drama in this match is at a greater high than the other two matches because we know this is the last encounter, so that adds to the match.

Where this match isn't as good as the other two varies. For instance, this match has better psychology and matwork than Chi-Town Rumble, while it isn't paced as good and the crowd isn't as hot. When comparing it to the COTC battle, this match has better drama and better nearfalls, but the matwork and psychology of the Clash battle triumphs over it. At the end of the day though, that 's what makes the series to special; every match is near-perfection and tell the same story in different ways. This is more of a face-face encounter than the previous two, where Flair goes full heel mode. One last thing: Steamboat's selling and Flair's bumping are phenominal, and are some of the best in the entire series. Flair takes back the title in a nod to the Clash match, where Steamboat goes for a slam and his injured knee buckles. Amazing storytelling. Do I think this is the greatest match of all time ? No, as a matter of fact it's my least favorite of the trilogy, but that obviously dosen't make it the worst.

It's a work of art and ONE of the greatest matches of all time.

*~ ******

and as a bonus...

_Ric Flair vs Terry Funk: I Quit Match: Clash of the Champions IX_

If Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat was an indication of what wrestling as an art form is supposed to be, than Ric Flair vs Terry Funk is an example of what wrestling violence is all about. Flair shows his versatility in this brutal match, that honestly reminds me of an older version of the WM XXVIII end of an era match between The Undertaker and Triple H. Not that the matches have anything in common, but what makes both matches so great are the SUPERB storytelling and intense violence. The story here is simple: Funk is insane, and broke Flair's neck, now Flair needs to do what seems impossible; make Terry Funk say I quit.

For 1989 standards, and even by today's standards, this match is stiff and brutal. The psychology complies with the storytelling PERFECTLY, as Funk beats down on Flairs neck and sets up for a piledriver, but before he pulls the trigger he asks Flair does he want to quit. The way Funk says "Remember your neck Ric ? You don't want me to hurt your neck again do you?" is storytelling and drama so compelling, but it's actually congruent with the storyline. What can I say about some of the spots in this match ? A piledriver on the floor, steel barricade shots, and one of the most brutal suplexes to the outside that I've ever seen puts the icing on the cake for this match. 

For a long time in this match we believe that Funk might actually win this, because lets be honest; Did anyone visualize Funk actually saying I quit ? Funk takes some absolute brutal bumps in this match while protecting Flair very well, an all around fantastic job. Flair uses some leg work and after trying for a long time, actually manages to hook the figure four to make Funk quit. Better storytelling and drama than the Steamboat series, and incredibly violent, if the build was a little better it would get the full five stars from me, but nonetheless, this is probably my favorite Ric Flair match. Fantastic. 

*~ **** 3/4*​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Amazing stuff, sent a rep your way, If I hand to pick one of those to watch everyday of my life it be the wrestle wars like most but you couldn't go wrong with any.Its amazing because I heard flair say on his shoot (2008 one) that he personally thought the his US match with Steamboat were as good. Haven't seem them so I could judge maybe you have ? I find it amazing that the man is in his late 49s pulling 40min + classics on 3 different occasions 

:mark: :mark:

Has any wrestler from any promotion come close to having a year like flair did in 89 ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nope. Never in our lifetime will we ever see it either.

Flair's 85 is certainly nothing to sneeze at either, hell I might consider it to be the 2nd GOAT year behind 89 FLAIR.

GOATS GONNA GOAT. (Thunderdome Tag & COTC VIII = MARK MARK MARK) 

:flair3


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> Has any wrestler from any promotion come close to having a year like flair did in 89 ?


Yes. Kobashi in 2003, 2004, and 2005. Kobashi/Kawada/Misawa all had better years in the 90's. Tanahashi in NJPW in 2011 was spectacular. Bryan Danielson in 2006. His title run in 2005/06 was one of the best in wrestling history and he held the title till like 12/27/06. I think all of those surpass Flair in 1989. Austin and Benoit in 2001 come close as well. Those are just the ones I can think of off hand as I'm sure there are more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think Kobashi, Austin, Benoit, or Dragon ever had a year close to that good. The best Misawa and Kawada years, maybe. Not sure what those are, though, I have watching and re-watching to do. I've never seen a Tanahashi match (ever......seriously), so I can't comment, but I'll be flabbergasted if it's as good as the best Flair year. Honestly I'll be surprised if it's as god as the eighth best Flair year. If someone rolls out a list of Tanahashi to watch from 2011 I'll keep it for later. 



That said, Flair's 85 is better than his 89.


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

Tanahashi in 2011:
vs Makabe 1/4
vs Nagata in april
vs Goto in june
vs Bernard in July
an incredible all around G-1 performance. his match vs Nagata on the first day stands out the most I think
vs Nakamura in september
vs Naito in october
vs Nagata in december

his only two matches that are not super high caliber are vs Nakamura in may and vs Yano in november. everything else is mint even his random tags that i don't remember off hand. but i believe one of them was w/Goto vs Bernard/Anderson.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

Flair/Steamboat looks :mark:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Spoiler: Austin-Rock Wrestlemania 19 Review



*The Rock vs. Steve Austin (Wrestlemania 19)*​









Although Rock and Austin have collided at numerous point in their careers, history will remember their WrestleMania trilogy above all else. The first instalment at WrestleMania XV was a signature match of the Attitude Era – The Rock, the corporate champion and Vince McMahon's stooge against Stone Cold Steve Austin at the hight of his popularity. It was a hardcore brawl that ended with Austin reclaiming the gold and toasting it with a beer. Two years pass and the second instalment at WrestleMania X-Seven was even bigger, another all out brawl where both men were favourites which ended with the shocking alliance between Austin and Vince McMahon. Two years have passed again, only now Rock and Austin have both been away from the spotlight for quite some time.

Austin had been in serious pain the year before and was having difficulties with the direction of the WWE product. His departure was controversial and forced many plans to change for the summer. After some time away he felt in better shape and was convinced to return at No Way Out 2003. The fans forgave him easily although backstage some still held a grudge. The Rock also returned at No Way Out, but his return was the total contrast. His star rising in Hollywood, he left the WWE after SummerSlam to make more films and live a much more comfortable lifestyle. The WWE fans resented this and booed him upon his return. In response, The Rock became a better heel than he'd ever been, delivering some of the greatest promos of all time.

However with both men so out of the loop, for WrestleMania there were few places left for them to fit. The big feuds were already in place, so it was decided to put them together again with the story that Rock was desperate to defeat Austin at a WrestleMania, something he'd never done. The build up was filled with great Rock promos and the match was rightly Raw's main-event. However what was not widely known at the time was the physical condition of Steve Austin. As documented on 'The Mania of WrestleMania', a film made at this time, Austin's neck problems were becoming very serious and he was told he could never wrestle again. He knew going in that this match would be his last, but barely told anyone outside his inner circle. Austin was extremely nervous, concerned with being able to perform at the standard expected of him and put on a good show for his last ever. His physical condition meant this match would be difficult, with only The Rock and JR aware of the situation within the production. It's a shame in many ways that we didn't know, but that was how Austin wanted it. He didn't want lots of attention or emotion, no big final hurrah to send him into the sunset - all he wanted was to put on a show and leave with dignity.

Inside the ring they tell a personal story, this time without the violent brawling of their first two encounters. Instead they stick with moderate brawling, strong character representation and plenty of taunts to further express this. I don't know if it's my background knowledge, the amazing set-up at Safeco Field or my partiality for endings, but this is my favourite Austin/Rock match of all time. Even unspoken you can see the emotion in both men, the knowledge that this is the end of the most iconic era in modern wrestling and the end of one of the greatest careers in history. The six second pause before Rock delivers the third and final Rock Bottom gives me chills, I just wish the commentary could have recognised what this moment truly was, instead focusing on Rock's achievement of finally besting Austin at WrestleMania. Had this match been Career Vs Career it would have been absolutely huge and the ending could have been even better than it already was.

As it is, this is still a fantastic match, but when you know the background on Austin and the future of both men it moves up a peg into all-time best status. The idea that this could have been even bigger boggles the mind, but on his last night Austin delivered a classic for which he should be eternally proud.

*****3/4 (My favorite Austin-Rock encounter)*
​


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've never seen a Tanahashi match (ever......seriously)


Everything wrong with the world.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't think Kobashi, Austin, Benoit, or Dragon ever had a year close to that good. The best Misawa and Kawada years, maybe. Not sure what those are, though, I have watching and re-watching to do. I've never seen a Tanahashi match (ever......seriously), so I can't comment, but I'll be flabbergasted if it's as good as the best Flair year. Honestly I'll be surprised if it's as god as the eighth best Flair year. If someone rolls out a list of Tanahashi to watch from 2011 I'll keep it for later.
> 
> 
> 
> That said, Flair's 85 is better than his 89.


Tanahashi is the man, but nah. It's not on par with one of Flair's best years. Hardly a slight towards the man's best work - that's just how amazing Flair was. Same for all the other talent you listed above.

BUTTTTT you really do need to see a Tanahashi match. At least vs Shinsuke Nakamura in like Feb '09. That one. Oh yes. Or if it means anything to you for my opinion - Tanahashi vs Okada series from 2012 & this year are prime matches. Not Wrestle Kingdom though - aka the third match. I liked it, but I don't think its particularity up your alley for a "go to" match for the guy. The other three I'd suggest. Mostly the first so you can better appreciate matches two & four. The fourth match that happened this year. My god. I loved every single aspect of it.

fuck it. Watch an ass ton of his matches. The displeasure seems to have subsided from back in 2011 when apparently some had gripes with his work. Good. b/c the guy didn't deserve it. He's great. At least, I think he is.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have never seen a tanahashi's match so I cannot really go in depth on him. Only man I see on that list of yours is probably kobashi but I haven't seen a match of his in a while. Saying that I doubt it comes close to Slick Ric 

Slick Ric was other worldly


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Tanahashi is the man, but nah. It's not on par with one of Flair's best years. Hardly a slight towards the man's best work - that's just how amazing Flair was. Same for all the other talent you listed above.
> 
> BUTTTTT you really do need to see a Tanahashi match. At least vs Shinsuke Nakamura in like Feb '09. That one. Oh yes. Or if it means anything to you for my opinion - Tanahashi vs Okada series from 2012 & this year are prime matches. Not Wrestle Kingdom though - aka the third match. I liked it, but I don't think its particularity up your alley for a "go to" match for the guy. The other three I'd suggest. Mostly the first so you can better appreciate matches two & four. The fourth match that happened this year. My god. I loved every single aspect of it.
> 
> fuck it. Watch an ass ton of his matches. The displeasure seems to have subsided from back in 2011 when apparently some had gripes with his work. Good. b/c the guy didn't deserve it. He's great. At least, I think he is.


Thoughts on Bryan's Raw matches plz.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Six man was quality yet again. Not _OMG THIS MATCH MUST BE SEEN_ great collectively, but more than enough to be praised from a "weekly WWE TV match" standpoint. ****1/2 *imo. Someone wants to drop the term 'other worldly' in this thread - well I do too. Use it for Danielson. His hot tag sequence following Orton's FIP segment was, again, tremendous. The fans, oh how the eat it up so much. And I do too. Right along with 'em. Loved the way the match ended too. God damn did those fans think Hell No & Orton had Shield's number. Only for that quick slip up to catch the faces in the end and Shield remains un-pinned/submitted as a six man unit.

Danielson vs Ryback wasn't as strong as their first match, but I only feel that's thanks to the finish. Which was perfectly fine by all means. Danielson nor Ryback were defeated clean which would potentially halt their momentum atm and it built to further along both of their stories. Danielson, my stars though, again another just unreal showing of being that definitive babyface right now. Triple H needs to take some lessons. THAT'S what a babyface is supposed to be. Inspirational, emotional, and yes for portions of the match, vulnerable to entice the fans to want to cheer & feel sympathy for. To have the fans root you on in a furious manner and win. Danielson does it so well. He worked his ass off last night. It truly felt like WWE Monday Night RAW: Starring Daniel Bryan. Which by all means, is welcomed every single Monday as far as I'm concerned. ****1/2* for said match, as well.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fans legit lost their shit when he countered that pick-up powerbomb attempt into the No Lock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ahhhhhh and it looked like he had a chance to make Ryback submit too. Fantastic stuff. I had to know Ryback wouldn't lose, but sheesh. I myself couldn't help but want to root for Danielson while watching.

No matter how much other stuff in the company atm is bleh to me, at least Danielson can have me react like that. The magic is still there in _one_ capacity. Which isn't praising mediocrity; it's celebrating quality.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Again, I know you hate spoilers so I'll refrain from revealing too much, but after reading what happens on SD this week I'm a little nervous about Danielson's current push/character development. Hopefully I'm just being paranoid.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'd take JD, 6/22/05 and GAB over HH 97 as far as Rey/Eddie goes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I read the match listing. I have one idea what you could mean by that. If it is what I think, then perhaps my one appraisal towards WWE can fuck right off.

In a less than eloquent way to put it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm sure we're on the same page there, and I share your sentiments completely.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seems to be back into only caring for Chikara & Puro again...

at least Sheamus vs Cesaro happens tonight. Finally. Those two should get a bunch of time. With nine minutes it ruled last year. I can't wait to watch. Sheamus vs Barrett last week was pretty excellent too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So.

Since Punk is coming back in such a pointless one-off match because he's going for the RAW MITB in July? Or will that be given to a young up and comer like Ryback to cash in.

One of Danielson/Sheamus/Orton wins the blue case though, sure of it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> I read the match listing. I have one idea what you could mean by that. If it is what I think, then perhaps my one appraisal towards WWE can fuck right off.
> 
> In a less than eloquent way to put it.





The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I'm sure we're on the same page there, and I share your sentiments completely.





Spoiler: Smackdown



While I understand your concerns over how Randy is getting over with the fans/bookers, again, you also have to remember at what level Ryback is booked and, also, that Orton has put over a myriad of talents in the past year or two. Add in the fact that Bryan is more over than Orton and I have a feeling D-Bry will be fine.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Bryan has to win MITB and cash it in in an actual match and win. His current storyline leading up to that would be the best thing ever.

TLK I read the SD spoilers and I'm still optimistic about Bryan's push. A program leading out of what happened could be good imo. If WWE know what's good for them they won't fuck Bryan over, they can't. But that's it right there, most of the time they don't know what the right thing to do is. But if they fuck over the most over and best babyface in the entire universe its a step closer to me giving up completely...Unless they give Punk something interesting to do.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Spoiler: Smackdown
> 
> 
> 
> While I understand your concerns over how Randy is getting over with the fans/bookers, again, you also have to remember at what level Ryback is booked and, also, that Orton has put over a myriad of talents in the past year or two. Add in the fact that Bryan is more over than Orton and I have a feeling D-Bry will be fine.





Spoiler: Reply back to Smackdown spoiler



I'm hoping WWE does it the right way. Orton goes this way ---> World Championship. Bryan goes the other way ---> WWE Championship. Saves both incredibly over men the process of WWE picking and choosing while both can thrive for their respective championships. Bryan is so hot & grand right now the company CAN'T pass him up. I mean they could...they'll only look like a bunch of fools yet again.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Screw Daniel Bryan, that vanilla midget sucks.

Now Randy Orton, THERE'S a talent that needs more world title reigns to solidify his greatness.

While we're at it, let's give Del Rio the MITB briefcase w/ a subsequent world title win on top of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's WWE. Doesn't surprise me in the least.

Bad enough Miz will be Intercontinental Champion as a face following Payback. You guys tried it. Didn't work. Miz as a face = cancer.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just can't wait for this Cena/Ryback nonsense to be over; this feud is fucking terrible.

Last thing that Cena ever did FEUD wise that I enjoyed was his program with Punk in July-September until fuckng RYBACK poked his fucking head in.

& before that, it was Brock. & before that, it was Punk again.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I'm cautiously optimistic about the Bryan/SD situation. I don't want to think what I probably should think. If it's designed to propel Bryan, cool beans. If it's being used in the opposite direction, fuck that shit.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm excited for anything at this point that doesn't involve Ryback, Miz or Del Rio. If they all got fired the show would improve.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I get what you mean, KOK, but Ryback has been the better part of this program over Cena. All John-boy has seemed to do was cut a promo making it a Three Stages of Hell match. Everything else post-WM has been all Ryback. He even outperformed Cena in their match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> I'm excited for anything at this point that doesn't involve Ryback, Miz or Del Rio. If they all got fired the show would improve.


Why the Del Rio hate? :bron3


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

These Smackdown spoilers have me worried that they've run out of ideas for the Shield.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I get what you mean, KOK, but Ryback has been the better part of this program over Cena. All John-boy has seemed to do was cut a promo making it a Three Stages of Hell match. Everything else post-WM has been all Ryback. He even outperformed Cena in their match.


This. I'm actually enjoying Ryback far more as a heel than I ever did as a face. I think his role in the Cena feud has been great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Ryback killing Kofi Kingston last Friday may have been the most blissful non-Danielson moment of the year for me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Bryan has to win MITB and cash it in in an actual match and win. His current storyline leading up to that would be the best thing ever.
> 
> TLK I read the SD spoilers and I'm still optimistic about Bryan's push. A program leading out of what happened could be good imo. If WWE know what's good for them they won't fuck Bryan over, they can't. But that's it right there, most of the time they don't know what the right thing to do is. But if they fuck over the most over and best babyface in the entire universe its a step closer to me giving up completely...Unless they give Punk something interesting to do.


Yeah, cashing in honorably and winning would be pretty great.

And I agree that I'm getting my hopes up super high only to have them dashed. I haven't been this invested in a single character since I don't know when - HHH over a decade ago probably.

edit agreed. Were the fans really chanting "one more time" like Vince said? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. You could hear them as Ryback was leaving. Segment was so edited to make it sound like he was getting nothing but heat. Surprised those fans got through. Probably b/c it was a good portion chanting.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The whole Cena/Ryback feud was freakin' boring. I'm just wondering who will feud with Cena during the SS build-up, if WWE will decide to make a Punk/Brock program.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart vs Mr Perfect - Summerslam 1991

3/4

Yeah, the same rating as their KOTR match, but this is still my favorite out of the two, just fucking awesome, great bumps from both men, brilliant sequence of moves, just an amazing match that deserves all the credit it is given, stunning.

Oh, and i really miss Monsoon/Heenan on commentary.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wouldn't mind the full match to this too:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

zep81 said:


> Wouldn't mind the full match to this too:


Mr. Perfect... perfect against DA BEAST INCARNATE! (unless Lesnar beat him in some other dark match)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There are plenty of interesting dark matches involving Lesnar. There's one where he executes a perfect Shooting Star Press, there's a 5 minute match with Orton from 2001 and now this?

Also the Smackdown spoilers sound awesome. I'm almost finished with all school work so by Friday, I should finally be free again to check out what I've missed this week!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> There are plenty of interesting dark matches involving Lesnar. There's one where he executes a perfect Shooting Star Press, there's a 5 minute match with Orton from 2001 and now this?


Yeah, i saw one match where he is teaming with Benjamin and the finish is Brock's shooting star press.

Another one here, little Spike Dudley


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

summerslam 91 is one of my favorite matches ****1/2 god I miss perfect, literally everything you want in a wrestler and was the coolest SOB with flair in the early 90s


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Bryan vs Ryback from RAW was better than their previous encounter on Smackdown IMO. A better overall performance by Bryan and liked the ending with Ryback having enough and ending up slamming Bryan on the table. Crowd were totally behind Bryan as well (as expected).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oliver-94 said:


> Bryan vs Ryback from RAW was better than their previous encounter on Smackdown IMO. A better overall performance by Bryan and liked the ending with Ryback having enough and ending up slamming Bryan on the table. Crowd were totally behind Bryan as well (as expected).


I'd also put the Raw match above their Smackdown one.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I thought their RAW match was slightly better than their Smackdown encounter as well. Their Smackdown match is still great though. 

On a side-note:








Awesome.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Wouldn't mind the full match to this too:


That whole match used to be on Youtube a few years back but the account that held it got terminated.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think one could argue Danielson's face work vs Ryback on Monday was better + the advent of the hot live audience helping things out too. Granted with those intangibles, I'd still have their Smackdown match over it by a hair. Felt that match was smoother all around and showed off both in really, really good fashion. Last night was a great display for Bryan & Ryback was more in the background as a beast instead of a beast adding something extra to the match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> BUTTTTT you really do need to see a Tanahashi match. *At least vs Shinsuke Nakamura in like Feb '09.* That one. Oh yes. Or if it means anything to you for my opinion - Tanahashi vs Okada series from 2012 & this year are prime matches.


I have a good few Tanahashi to watch for the 2000s LIST, and this is one of them. I absolutely want to see the Okada series one day. I'm not a current-day puro guy and I have no idea if I'll hate all of them or something, but they've gotten too much praise for me to completely ignore them. I like to eventually watch everything that gets high-end talk. It takes me a million days. Like, I heard LA Park v. Dr. Wagner Jr recently was fucking awesome, but despite Parka being one of my all time favourites I probably won't watch it for two years.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LA PARKA = CHAIRMAN OF WCW. 

I always marked for that guy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He's completely incredible. The fact he couldn't really go anywhere in the US shows just how bad WCW had gotten with pushing people. A man dressed as a skeleton who dances and hits people with chairs and you don't feel the need to make him a top guy!? That's your 'You Fucking Fail As A Wrestling Company' point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I have a good few Tanahashi to watch for the 2000s LIST, and this is one of them. I absolutely want to see the Okada series one day. I'm not a current-day puro guy and I have no idea if I'll hate all of them or something, but they've gotten too much praise for me to completely ignore them. I like to eventually watch everything that gets high-end talk. It takes me a million days. Like, I heard LA Park v. Dr. Wagner Jr recently was fucking awesome, but despite Parka being one of my all time favourites I probably won't watch it for two years.


Radical. Match is the tops. Pondered buying the show off of IVP just to have that match on DVD for life b/c I love that match.

Current Puro is an enigma. I think some do undersell the goodies that do come out of it these days, but I know it isn't like how it once was. Proof positive by going back to previous decades and seeing so. I have enough desire to watch New Japan full time b/c I really dig the cast of characters working these days.



The Lady Killer said:


> LA PARKA = CHAIRMAN OF WCW.
> 
> I always marked for that guy.


(Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-wwe/831457-rock-has-revived-cm-punks-career.html


Everyone vote this thread five stars.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao the fuck?

I just read that "Daniel Bryan spoiler" thread and almost shat myself with excitement. :hb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Something good with Danielson? Thank fucking christ. I need that. After what I've just been told/read my life as a wrestling fan is over.

Chikara. what the hell. NO. IT CAN'T DIE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Something VERY good with Danielson if it actually happens.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so I decided to watch some 2009 to see just how bad it was since i missed out on such tremendous time in the wwe :troll. It was the 8/24/09 edition of raw, Vince's birthday and floyd mayweather was the guest host

If I may write down my observation and notes

-Legracy start the show with a promo about a fan costing cena the title at ss and Orton winning. It was Ted's brother, idk if it was his real brother but he a terrible actor and looked clueless

-DX had by far the biggest role in the show. Opening segment with Vince got over 25mins to make fun of his age, bring out dancers and a terrible Elvis impersonator,

- Pointless Santino and Miz match. MIz has improved a lot in the ring and still is shit, santino one of the biggest jokes in wresting

- divas boxing theme match ? even in 2009 if I dont see skin im skipping

- Jershow/Floyd promo- floyd's acting is terrible, he comes across as a fake tough guy and plugs his boxing match

- MVP and kool-aid man mark henry :lol "Go out there and smile show that personality"

-tag match jerishow/mvp and henry

- the most boring match Ive seen in a while it felt like hours

- HORNSWOGGLE in a boxing match !!! wow i thought 2012 was bad 

- WHEN DID KOFI HAVE A JAMAICAN ACCENT :lol

- HAHA line of the night vince is backstage with mayweather and DX walks in talk to them.
HHH says " Vince is getting busy more time to get busy with your daughter. Yes im 20 years old ad it made me laugh

-fun little DX McMahon/legacy match at the end

Its a hard debate as whats better now vs 2009 but I there are both terrible


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was Ted's real brother, btw.

That show was...yeah. I do remember liking the tag match. Their matches on Breaking Point & on RAW right before Hell in a Cell are better. Especially the latter RAW match. That one was very good.

You shouldn't have watched a RAW in '09. All other portions of the year were so good that its humorous you picked the one poor aspect, haha. ECW is where it was at. With Smackdown & Superstars not too far behind. All of those were better than most PPVs too.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

I am also of the mindset Ryback is better as a heel. Love the ambulance entrance too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Really dig how the music doesn't begin till he burst through the doors.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> It was Ted's real brother, btw.
> 
> That show was...yeah. I do remember liking the tag match. Their matches on Breaking Point & on RAW right before Hell in a Cell are better. Especially the latter RAW match. That one was very good.
> 
> You shouldn't have watched a RAW in '09. All other portions of the year were so good that its humorous you picked the one poor aspect, haha. ECW is where it was at. With Smackdown & Superstars not too far behind. All of those were better than most PPVs too.


had a feeling this was the worst it could get. Heard raving reviews about smackdown, ecw and superstars. Another thing I noticed about it was how short raw felt I mean

*legacy
*DX promo
*short miz/santino match
*divas match
*mayweather interaction with jerishow
*jerhsiow/mvp and henry
*main event

It feels like that all happens in one hours nowadays. Currently looking for a smackdown episode from that year preferably from summertime


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You aren't lying. Two hours zipped on by even in 2012 right before the made the extension. You really take notice of the time eating segments when the program only runs two hours compared to three. Its why I don't mind the three hours. Gives that extra hour or so more for the matches. Didn't help that RAW you watched had a VERY long opening segment. It ran up to twenty minutes and some change iirc.

You said you missed '09. Does that mean you haven't seen Christian vs Swagger from Feb? Their second match after Christian earned his first ECW championship shot.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I heard Cal and some ppl on here pimp it so I checked it out a couple of months ago, really good stuff. Ive seen some of the major ppv bouts like hbk/taker ,rey/jerchio bash ,rey/ziggler ss, the punk/hardy cage, tlc, orton/cena hour, cena vs dx boys in svs and a couple of raw match i think cena/hhh and cena/hbk but thats pretty much it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You've hit a good number of the popular matches. I can shoot some recs your way in a bit if you'd care to check 'em out. I know I can pump out quite a few off the top of my head. Mysterio vs Morrison being one that should be seen.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Mysterio Vs Morrison = <3.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@I'd like some rec plz and actually I have seen rey/jomo imo its jomo second best match after ladders with sheamus
also Ive seen cena/edge LMS and dx/legecy breaking point


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I now finally own the Morrison DVD. Got it for 1.50. Morrison/Mysterio is worth it alone. Plus it's got two Punk/Morrison matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Morrison Vs Punk LAST CHANCE MATCH & Summer 2009 <3.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I heard Cal and some ppl on here pimp it so I checked it out a couple of months ago, really good stuff. Ive seen some of the major ppv bouts like hbk/taker ,rey/jerchio bash ,rey/ziggler ss, the punk/hardy cage, tlc, orton/cena hour, cena vs dx boys in svs and a couple of raw match i think cena/hhh and cena/hbk but thats pretty much it





redskins25 said:


> @I'd like some rec plz and actually I have seen rey/jomo imo its jomo second best match after ladders with sheamus
> also Ive seen cena/edge LMS and dx/legecy breaking point


Other 2009 matches that weren't mentioned:

WHC Elimination Chamber match
All of Backlash 2009 minus the Stretcher match
Jericho vs. Rey from Extreme Rules
Punk/Hardy TLC & DX vs. Legacy from Summerslam (also Breaking Point)
Cena vs. HHH vs. HBK from Survivor Series
HHH vs. Orton Last Man Standing from RAW


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I still believe that some of Punk's best character work came from his summer 09 feud with Jeff Hardy, he was getting some great heat as World Champion.

That steel cage match :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> @I'd like some rec plz and actually I have seen rey/jomo imo its jomo second best match after ladders with sheamus
> also Ive seen cena/edge LMS and dx/legecy breaking point


John Cena vs Big Show - Smackdown 2/27 & Judgment Day
The Undertaker vs Big Show - Smackdown 4/24
John Morrison vs Edge - Smackdown 6/19
Every CM Punk vs John Morrison match
Every Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio match
Rey Mysterio vs John Morrison - 9/4
Jeff Hardy vs John Morrison - Smackdown 7/31
Finlay vs Mike Knox - Smackdown 8/21 & 9/11
Finlay vs Drew McIntyre - Smackdown 11/13 & 11/20
Rey Mysterio vs Batista - Smackdown 12/18
Finlay vs Jack Swagger - ECW 2/3
Christian vs Jack Swagger - ECW 2/10 & 2/24 _(nearly EVERY match with Christian is worth seeing. hardly a stretch. Just skip vs Shelton Benjamin at TLC '09 and you're good.)_
Christian vs William Regal - ECW 8/25, Breaking Point, & ECW 11/10
John Morrison vs Evan Bourne - ECW 4/14

I'm lazy/tired atm so I'll send you more later today. Although this is plenty to watch. I need to hit up more gems from ECW & some from Superstars too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ thanks man Ill give this a watch, np take your time I keep forgetting Im in the minority of living in America and there's such a huge time difference


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I really SHOULD watch 2009, as the only shows I've watched in full are the DVDs I own.

I've seen the incredibly overhyped Rey-Jericho & the incredibly underhyped Swagger-Christian though, that's for sure.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Morrison/Mysterio from SD :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Morrison was the MAN in 2009.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

My fav. JoMo moment was when he jumped from the top of the cage in that EC match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Return plz. He's still super young, isn't he?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

33.

He can return with that as he's healthy & still in the same shape he was while in WWE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that's not old at all. :hb

Someone in a WWE title match prediction thread came up with the idea for Punk to return and win the title later this year. Meanwhile, Danielson wins the 2014 Rumble and challenges Punk to a 60-minute ironman match @ Mania 30 for the WWE Title. :mark: Love fantasy booking sometimes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sixty minute ironman, haha. I'd prefer two out of three falls. Lets have the next Flair vs Steamboat on our hands.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I just want them to have another PPV main event. The two they had last year were great. 2 out of 3 falls would be awesome. They're probably the only two guys I'd want to see in a wrestling-oriented gimmick match (ironman, 2/3 falls, etc) rather than a hardcore-style gimmick match. Maybe throw Cesaro and Rollins in that mix too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cesaro vs Danielson two out of three falls match sounds: :homer

Danielson vs Rollins actually getting their singles match is all I want with those two right now. That's like the only thing WWE hasn't done so far.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think it'll happen, though I do find it odd that's like the only combination of Hell No vs Shield members they haven't done. :hmm:

What's the latest with Cesaro, anyway? He still jobbing every week? :sad:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cesaro had a *** match with Sheamus at main-event last night. I just love that stomp of his


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, that's not old at all. :hb
> 
> Someone in a WWE title match prediction thread came up with the idea for Punk to return and win the title later this year. Meanwhile, Danielson wins the 2014 Rumble and challenges Punk to a 60-minute ironman match @ Mania 30 for the WWE Title. :mark: Love fantasy booking sometimes.


Reverse the order and you have me game.

1) Daniel Bryan gets a few main events from MitB until Wrestlemania, enjoying not only the benefit of a crowd behind him but a much deserved spot he can fill out
2) Punk finally gets his big Wrestlemania main event win
3) We all go fucking nuts


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cesaro had a rocking match vs Sheamus last night on Main Event. He lost of course, but it was worth seeing.

Last week he broke even by losing to Truth on Superstars and won vs Gabriel on Main Event. It appears they have zero idea what to do with him atm.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Seriously? It actually got time and he looked decent?

edit @ Rah I can get behind that as well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rey/y2j the bash is fucking great 2nd MOTY behind hbk/taker from what Ive seen. Found an smackdown 2009 episode from July and the main event is Rey/Jericho for IC :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The match was like 17-18 minutes. I really hope that they'll give Cesaro a feud in the build-up to SS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

13 minutes shown. Back and forth, quality action.

****1/2* snowflakes to entice, if you will.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wow, really? Yeah, I'll definitely check this out. There had better be a giant fucking uppercut.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spoiler alert: yep.

:hayley3


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fear The Fury: Brock Lesnar's Top 25 Matches Ever (10-6)


10. Brock Lesnar Vs The Rock (WWE Championship - Summerslam 2002)










(DO IT AGAIN BROCK)

I fucking adore this match, & it's one of my favorite matches ever for a number of reasons. First of all, this is perhaps the most athletic main event contest that I've ever seen take place in the WWE with the pacing off of the charts due to the sheer conditioning these guys were both in here (something that will suffer heavily if these guys have their inevitable rematch). I loved how Rock came in swinging only to have Lesnar catch him with the belly to belly as it just SCREAMED kayfabe respect which The Rock had for Lesnar's ability to end guys systematically. It also has the BROCK BOTTOM, what's not to love? The main event & MOTN on one of the greatest PPVs of all time in Summerslam 2002. I could talk about this match all day as it's easily my favorite Rock match ever as he was the one to help make Brock HUGE here, along with another guy....

*~ **** 1/4*


9. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (WWE Championship - Unforgiven 2002)










(How is it that Brock looks MORE dangerous now?)

Here we get to another personal favorite of mine that really doesn't get enough love when it comes to being a main event masterpiece; people know this match as a carbon copy of Ground Zero 1997 in which Taker & HBK set up the very first Hell in a Cell match, but here's the thing: This match is better than HBK-Taker from Ground Zero. The premise is simple; Taker dominates Brock with strikes, Brock loses his mind and grows impatient with his wrestling holds. The stomach is worked on, & both Brock & taker really sell this as a clash of the titans. What astounds me about this is the big match atmosphere surrounding the match and how they use this atmosphere to craft a pace which makes the match so special to me. SPOILER; it`s not as good as their cell match which we'll get a glimpse at later, but I can't really say enough positive things about this particular match as I've seen one star ratings and two star ratings being thrown at it from all angles which really fucking pisses me off even though this shit is subjective. It may not be a better "set-up" to the Cell match like Taker-HBK was, but it's certainly the better match and the second greatest main event PPV bout of the year 2002.

*~ **** 1/4*


8. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (WWE Championship - Stretcher Match; Judgment Day 2003)










(Brock Lesnar: Construction Aficionado)

We're still not shifting gears here as we reach the number eight Brock Lesnar match of all time and perhaps my favorite match from the year 2003 in Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show in a stretcher match. This match is fucking AWESOME as it features perhaps my favorite formula for a bout ever; two big guys beat the crap out of each other with a bunch of storytelling devices such as psychology being thrown into the mix as well. This match is actually insane as we get two big bastards killing each other with a stretcher, crazy interference that actually made sense, FORKLIFT DIVE BROCK, & one of the most creative endings you'll see in a match ever. Brock turns into fucking hercules here and decides to toss Big Show around like a rag doll and..... Wait, maybe I should acknowledge the fact that this is Big Show's hands down greatest match ever with a few matches coming close to it's greatness but not really. Oh and here's something else; this is Brock's best babyface performance bar none. WATCH IT LOVE IT ADORE IT as it's another match that I see getting one and two star ratings thrown at it on a nonstop basis, and all of those ratings can go straight to hell.

*~ **** 1/4*


7. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (WWE Championship - Ironman Match; Smackdown 9/16/2003)










(Kurt's punishment for his No Surrender match with Hardy)

Here's another feather that Brock can stick in his proverbial cap as a worker; he managed to have the greatest ironman match in WWF/WWE history. He does this of course by combining the Rude strategy from Beach Blast 1992 mixed with epic heel control segments & a pretty fucking awesome Kurt Angle face comeback to boot. One thing that always gets underrated when it comes to Brock's arsenal is his ability to sell a match with his facial expressions how he'll slap on a resthold but use his expressions to sell it as something that'll fucking kill you, it's awesome. The fact that he managed such a strong performance for one hour straight is quite the impressive feat but I obviously have to give Kurt his due here; he was the fucking perfect foil for Lesnar in this environment. This isn't the apex of Lesnar's 2003 heel work as there's two other instances we'll get to very, very soon.... But I'm extremely comfortable with this being cited as the greatest ironman match ever. One of the greatest matches in the history of television and a top 60 - 65 match ever from where I'm currently sitting at.

*~ **** 1/2*


6. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Summerslam 2012)










(So nice we had to do it THRICE)

I can hear it now: "Oh fuck you, just because Triple H & Brock Lesnar are your favorite wrestlers ever and this was the ultimate dream match for you, you just HAD to put it in the top five six, didn't you?" Well, yes I did. I'm going to admit that this is probably the ultimate biased choice on the list but I swear to God that I actually think the match is this good and here's why; Brock is GOD while Hunter has one of his all time greatest performances here. Brock's taking off of the gloves, his facial expressions, they all play big roles in the building of this as somewhat devious. Who doesn't fucking go crazy when seeing Brock stand up on the edge of the announce table, staring down at HHH as to say "yeah, you're my fucking bitch". HHH's war cry doesn't do alot for a ton of people but the thing is that it did something for me personally and as a fan I couldn't have felt more satisfied by this match coming out of it than I did when this was over. The story was fantastic; Brock gains an advantage until Trips finds a weakness and exploits the shit out of it, let's go to fucking WAR. That story also gave birth to the single greatest selling performance of 2012 bar ONE OTHER MATCH (gee, wonder what that match could be?); Brock's selling of the stomach. OMFG OMFG I feel like a little schoolgirl raving about the selling of the stomach and how it caused HHH to go into full on "cerebral assassin" mode to attack the shit out of it. One of the all time great selling jobs of the 21st century and I'm not at all phased in saying that as it was fucking incredible, with this match perhaps being HHH's greatest face performance in a face vs heel scenario ever simply because he let himself get DESTROYED (anybody ever notice that Trips's best matches as a face are all face vs face matches?) and work his way up from the bottom. LOVED the trilogy, but the original rules them all & the crazy thing is that it didn't even make the top five.

Brock is God.

*~ **** 1/2*


*The List So Far* 

6. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Summerslam 2012)
7. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2003)
8. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Judgment Day 2003)
9. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (Unforgiven 2002)
10. Brock Lesnar Vs The Rock (Summerslam 2002)
11. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Extreme Rules 2013)
12. Brock Lesnar Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 2003)
13. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Survivor Series 2002)
14. Brock Lesnar Vs Hulk Hogan (Smackdown 2002)
15. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIX)
16. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2003)
17. Brock Lesnar Vs Giant Bernard (NJPW 2006)
18. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
19. Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit Vs Team Angle (No Way Out 2003)
20. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (6/12/2003 Smackdown)
21. Brock Lesnar Vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)
22. Brock Lesnar Vs Manabu Nakanishi (NJPW 2005)
23. Brock Lesnar Vs Ric Flair (RAW 2002)
24. Brock Lesnar Vs Akebono (NJPW 2006)
25. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Royal Rumble 2003)​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was enthralled by the list so much until I noticed Brock vs Trips I was put at number six.

That's a big NO on my opinion scale. _(like it matters.)_ I don't hate the match like some do, but it was barely good except for Brock being Brock in it. Certainly wouldn't be a top career match for Lesnar, imo, let alone one I'd even acknowledge well in the scope of their trilogy.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hm, wonder what the top 5 could be. Taker/Brock is a given, and Brock/Cena is #1 if what KOK said is true about only one match being higher than it (the original cell match). I don't see the SS03 Brock/Kurt match yet, so that might be on there. And what else am I forgetting that could potentially be up there? Maybe another couple of Japan matches I've never seen? Meh, maybe posting my top 10 Brock matches will get the ball rolling:

(****3/4)
1) vs. Taker NM03
(****1/2)
2) vs. Angle SD 03
(****1/4)
3) vs. Eddie Guerrero NWO 04
4) vs. Cena ER 12
5) vs. Angle SS 03
(****)
6) vs. Rock SS 2002
7) vs. Angle WM19
8) vs. Big Show JD 03
(***3/4)
9) vs. Benoit SD 03
10) vs. Taker Unforgiven 02

VS. EDDIE. That's gotta be in there, and you probably have it at number 2. Then I guess maybe the Benoit SD match? If so, here's my prediction for the top 5:

5) vs. Benoit SD 03
4) vs. Angle SS 03
3) vs. Undertaker NM 02
2) vs. Eddie Guerrero NWO 04
1) vs. Cena ER 12


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Brock/Eddie is my favourite Brock match


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'll say this much; The top 3 matches are all MOTYS from their respective years.

:brock


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Taker at NM 02 is my favorite Brock match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed it is fantastic.

In terms of being a single entity, it's superior to the Batista-HHH HIAC, but I'm not so sure if I'd have it higher than Vengeance 2005 when it comes to a pure WWF/WWE list as Hunter/Batista happens to be the ultimate example of a WWE Main Event style blow-off match. It's tricky, but if I were to put both of them in my top 20 matches ever per se, they'd be neck and neck as one of those "every day the order of this changes" type situations. Kind of like how I feel about Taker-HBK @ Mania & Brock-Cena from Extreme Rules as being the top 2 contenders for WWE match of the century so far.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Eddie/Brock is probably my favorite Brock match but it has almost nothing to do with Brock. If we're looking at Brock's best performances it would have to be HIAC vs. Undertaker.


OK so I'm watching Foley's first DVD and I'm on the ECW matches. Holy Fuck, WWE has managed to ruin the original ECW with the way they edited the crowds. You can't hear any of the noise they make. Thankfully I've seen unedited ECW or I wouldn't even know about the insane crowds that they used to have. I'm not sure if I' going to be able to watch these matches. Joey Styles is good but watching these matches is basically muting everything and just listening to him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match of the century? Must be a Midnight Express vs Southern Boys discussion I don't see around.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched cena/show 2/27/09

great match Cena plays the babyface in peril better than anybody on the roster imo


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've tried watching that Cena/Show match so many times, but I just don't seem to get it. It's a good match, but nothing really seems out of the ordinary here, outside of the fact that it isn't as terrible as most of the other Show/Cena matches. Then again, I am the one guy here that thinks Cena is not at his best when he wrestles against monsters and plays the face in peril.

GAB 92 is a GOAT level PPV. Every match except for one is at least four snowflakes or more. Can't decide between this, Superbrawl, and Beach Blast with regards to which PPV was the best of 1992.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Obfuscation said:


> Match of the century? Must be a Midnight Express vs Southern Boys discussion I don't see around.


Just by seeing who's in it I'm assuming this must be one of the infinite amount of Southern Style tags that are out there? Let's see without never having seen the match I can conclude that the match has all of this happen

Ass kicking from the face team to start the match
The heels cheat to take control of the match
The heels keep cheatin to stay in control
At some point the face team makes the tag but the ref doesn't see it
At some point the face partner on the apron is distracting the ref while his partner is double teamed
There is a super hot tag

I don't really dislike those matches but I have a hard time really calling them classic matches because they are all so similar to each other.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd put Taker/Brock over Batista/HHH easily, though at the same time I can understand the reasoning behind putting Batista/HHH higher.

And I know at least the Eddie match being number 2 is wrong, since I'm certain you have the triple threat at Mania that year (like all the other sheep  ) as MOTY. Hell though, even I don't have it as MOTY. Eddie/JBL takes it for 04.

But... I don't know. 02 against Taker would be MOTY reasonably, and I know your thoughts on Brock/Cena. So either it's a match from 03, or it's one of those Japan matches. Hm, I would've guessed the Angle ironman match, but you already used that. Might be the Benoit SD match then, maybe. Or it could be the Angle SS match as well. I'm pretty sure I got the top 5 right, 99.999999% sure I got 4 of the 5 right, even if not in the exact order.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The ending to Taker/Brock HIAC was amazing. One of the best counters you'll ever see 

Turning a tombstone into a f 5! :mark


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> Just by seeing who's in it I'm assuming this must be one of the infinite amount of Southern Style tags that are out there? Let's see without never having seen the match I can conclude that the match has all of this happen
> 
> Ass kicking from the face team to start the match
> The heels cheat to take control of the match
> ...


:lmao

I love this post simply because it's true, but it's really the PERFECT formula for a great tag match and is basically what I'd prefer to see over other formulas like a Dragon Gate style where they just fly around everywhere.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

So guise....Triple H lost to Curtis Axel by count out....in a No Disqualification match?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Brock/Taker has the blatant no sell tho.



TaylorFitz said:


> Just by seeing who's in it I'm assuming this must be one of the infinite amount of Southern Style tags that are out there? Let's see without never having seen the match I can conclude that the match has all of this happen
> 
> Ass kicking from the face team to start the match
> The heels cheat to take control of the match
> ...


:lmao awesome


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one who would absolutely adore a Shield vs Evolution match either @ Summerslam (granted they'd need Batista back ASAP, and kinda drop this HHH retirement storyline) or Mania? For starters, I'd lose my mind at hearing the Evolution theme again, with Trips/Orton/Batista coming out w/Flair as their manager. I also think they could easily bill it as The Shield's biggest test. Would be an awesome match imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

behind :ziggler1 and :hbk2 that's one of my dream matches


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I honestly don't think there's a match I'd prefer to see over that at the moment. HBK/Bryan or Lesnar/Bryan maybe.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I would mark hard for that, and that would easily be The Shield's biggest test. It would be more about team vs team rather than team vs individuals as most of The Shield's matches have been so far.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Exactly. Evolution was the biggest stable of the 2000s, and The Shield is this era's biggest stable. Would work best if Shield was still undefeated heading into that match. I'm getting myself a little excited over here. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> Just by seeing who's in it I'm assuming this must be one of the infinite amount of Southern Style tags that are out there? Let's see without never having seen the match I can conclude that the match has all of this happen
> 
> Ass kicking from the face team to start the match
> The heels cheat to take control of the match
> ...


Can't argue with success.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Assuming TLK's awesome idea isn't in the pipeline, how/where/when/against who would everyone want to see The Shield a) lose their first match as a team and b) split up. I'm hoping that there's no plans to split them up any time soon, definitely keep them together until Mania and hopefully until perhaps Summerslam 2014. Depending on how they've developed that could be a good point. I'm stuck as to who they should lose to though, they've already beaten a lot of 'super' teams and at this point it would have to take something like Evolution or a Justice League consisting of a combination of Undertaker/HHH/Punk/Cena to beat them IMO. Plus it's becoming a mini-steak of their own so obviously when they do eventually lose it will be a big deal.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I can't see any current combination of superstars beating them. They've already destroyed everyone the active roster has to offer. I could potentially see them becoming an NWO-type group where even the heels want to defeat them. I could see a Heyman stable of Punk/BROCK/Axel facing The Shield somewhere down the line and potentially winning. If Batista ever returns, Evolution is an obvious choice. Any current team, though, I can't foresee it happening.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can see a current pairing defeating 'em. Probably Cena on the team and two other credible guys. That's believable among WWE type booking. Not much of an insult; only mean it as truth. Lots have come close at this point. Eventually that team will defeat them in a six man affair.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Probably Punk/Cena/??? or God forbid, The Rock.

He seems to ruin everything.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Holy shit, I've thought several times about Shield vs Evolution. However, with the way Orton seems to be headed right now, as well as Triple H, who knows if that is even possible. And who knows if the Shield will be together come Mania time. 

I could see Daniel Bryan pinning Rollins or Ambrose to finally get a clean win over them. FUCK ME if Cena pins one of them after taking them all out. He nearly did and I nearly threw myself out the window.

Just to hear this theme again, LIVE though. I'm giddy just thinking about it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH, Orton and Batista on the same team right now sounds like hell. I'll need some paint next to me so I can slap it on paper and watch it dry while that's going on.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just saw the 10-6 Brock matches, and it made me remember this Brock/Edge match I reviewed a while back. Not anything to really sneeze at. 



Spoiler: Brock/Edge



Brock Lesnar vs Edge - Rebellion 2002

Brock had just come off beating the Undertaker inside Hell in a Cell at No Mercy and Edge was his next challenger. This was actually billed as a handicap match with Heyman as Brock's partner, and they played up the fact that Edge could pin Heyman and Brock could lose the title, and also hinted at Brock and Heyman splitting up.

Early on in the match they really played up Edge's quickness and let him get into Brock's head a bit. Heyman was on his game as always, being the great heel manager that he is. He also had his WRISTS TAPED for this bout, and took a few bumps, including a spear from Edge off the apron and an axe handle. 

This was a pretty enjoyable match. Brock worked Edge's ribs over good and used his Brock Lock that had "retired Hulk Hogan". Edge battled back after his hand almost dropping for the three count. He even got a few nearfalls, first on Heyman with Brock breaking it up, then off a missile drop kick. The finishing sequence I liked - Brock ducked the cross body and Edge hit the referee. Brock got Edge up for the F-5 and Edge countered into the Impaler DDT, but of course the ref is still out. Heyman slides the chair in and goes to distract the Edge, while Brock grabs the chair, misses wildly, and turns into the spear. Ref slowly gets back and we get a BIG nearfall. Edge returns to the top rope, and since the ref is still groggy, Lesnar hits the steel chair to the midsection and follows up with the F-5 for the victory. ***1/2


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Shield/Evolution won't happen. I mentioned how they should do it a few months ago, but Orton is turning heel and Batista talks are dying down 

As for the shield will they ever lose a 6 man tag? Doubtful. Only way I see them losing is against evolution (very unlikely of happening) or Brothers of destruction that was being discussed for summerslam.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Taker, Cena and Triple H could beat The Shield. With what has occured so far I am certain Taker will be involved.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Shield's first loss should come in the match above (I would prefer Orton over Ryback though) ^


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ I see that realistically happening just Axel and hell no if still together are probably gonna be in there it somewhere. Will probably be another Summerslam 10 main event


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

That won't work. The Shield have to lose a six man tag. They make a huge deal out of them being undefeated as a team. Them losing a match with more or less guys doesn't mean the same thing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Evolution return would be awful. No thanks.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The last thing the Shield needs is for HHH to come and die their heat down the way he did with CM Punk and Brock Lesnar. Though I can totally see HHH bringing back Evolution and making them a fake, shitty version of the Shield. "Randy Orton" "Batista" "Triple H. Evolution is a mystery justice." "Echo, Victor, Oscar, Lima, Uniform, Tango, India, Oscar, November, EVOLUTION!"


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fact that they'll probably be faces too is like the most grating thing I could see on WWE TV this year.

"It's just...EVOLUTION." _*BIG POP WHILE THOSE THREE HAVE AGGRESSIVE SMILES. BAD ASS BABYFACES.*_

yuck.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It could be worse.

it could be KONNAN assembling a team of super-zeros to take down the vicious SHIELD once and for all.

THE KONNAN COALITION.

Konnan, Vampiro, & I have no idea who else.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't bring up Konnan to cushion the disapproval of Trips + goon squad being awful. :hayley2

It isn't fair.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You caught me fucker.

I love how my #2 & #3 favorite wrestlers of all time happen to have both been derailed by my overall favorite (HHH) at some point whether it be Punk at NOC 11 or Lesnar at WM XXIX. 

I really should show HHH more love around these parts again like I used to, pretty sure every time I speak about him nowadays it's to bash his face character.

EDIT: AS A BONUS POINT - Does anybody else here think that HHH wanted Orton pushed so bad so that Orton could be Triple H's own personal jobber? I mean FUCK, Orton never really got a definitive win over HHH in the sense of a completely even & clean affair due to the LMS being Game's 3rd match of the night & the fuckery known as The Bash featuring INTERFERENCE OUTTA NOWHERE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think you tread the fine borders of loving your childhood favorite eternally while understanding a flaw or two they may have. In Trips case, his work as a babyface. There is a reason why the best portion of his career came as a heel.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's weird because he'll show flashes of greatness like once or twice every year but then get reduced to his typical babyface schtick of never letting the heel dominate too much so that he looks weak before he makes his big comeback (WHICH DEFEATS THE FUCKING PURPOSE OF WRESTLING IN THE FUCKING FIRST PLACE). I thought his pseudo heel performance in the Wrestlemania XXVII match was fantastic in which I saw shades of the HHH of old in there, same goes with the Summerslam 2012 bout against Lesnar.

This is going to be a really weird thing to say, but it's true; there's a ton of great babyface HHH MATCHES, but there aren't really a ton of great babyface HHH PERFORMANCES... If that makes any sense .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Umaga Cyber Sunday '07 is the first to pop up. Then again I guess vs Brock in the Cage should have been. It's easy to understand, if you ask me. Matches were great/really good while he was a babyface. Only not necessarily thanks to him being a babyface.

Wrestling psychology 101. I got a bite on it.

:hayley3


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The only Baby face HHH performances I enjoy alot imo is no mercy with hardy and Brock summerslam and the latter has gone down in my recent watch. I complete forgot about character alignment when thinking of evolution PLZ not a face evolution


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I really should show HHH more love around these parts again like I used to, pretty sure every time I speak about him nowadays it's to bash his face character.


Which is exactly how it should be. :HHH2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> This is going to be a really weird thing to say, but it's true; there's a ton of great babyface HHH MATCHES, but there aren't really a ton of great babyface HHH PERFORMANCES... If that makes any sense .


Yeah, that makes complete sense. A guy can have multiple good matches - that don't automatically make the wrestler good. The wrestler might not have put in a good performance in any of those good matches. Ted DiBiase (Jr) had a good match with Goldust in 2010 and a good match with Drew McIntyre in 2011, but Ted wasn't good in either of those and his opponent (and Maryse...she was a great heel valet) was doing all of the work. Kofi Kingston did pretty much nothing in the Main Event match with Cesaro this year and that was an awesome match all because of Cesaro. The Miz was a non-entity in the Elimination Chamber match with Jerry Lawler, but Lawler ruled it and made the match rock. The Great Khali has a few good matches, but probably zero good performances. etc, etc, etc. There's a difference between a good match and a good performance.


I thought HHH was a shockingly good babyface throughout some of 2002. Well not for a LOT of it, maybe, but he looked pretty good against Angle at the Rumble and had a MIND-BLOWINGLY not-awful match with Lance Storm on SmackDown. Storm is crap, and it was HHH in 2002, so I have no idea how that match was as fun as it was. HHH babyface TV stuff in 2002 could be interesting to look at.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I knew you were going to mention the match vs Storm when you went the Trips '02 route. Watched that one the day you were blown away by the gem. Probably the most fun I've ever had watching Triple H in a main event capacity. Really. I wanted to cheer the guy on in his victory.

the rest of your post just tells me how much I miss Maryse.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*







*Rhyno vs Kane (c) for the WWF Intercontinental title- Smackdown 5/21/01*

Since losing the WWF Hardcore title to the Big Show, Rhyno now sets his sights on Kane's Intercontinental title. Ironiclly, Rhyno is the one who captured the Hardcore title from Kane but this time, he'll face Kane for the Intercontinental title. Kane is wearing a cast on his left arm going into this match. Rhyno hammers away punches on Kane while taunting him as the match starts. Rhyno grabs Kane but Kane fights him off and throws punches off his own on Rhyno. Kane takes Rhyno down with a sidewalk slam and then goes outside the ring on the top rope for a diving clothesline. Kane goes for a cover but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Kane puts Rhyno on his shoulders but Rhyno reverses it, throwing Kane into the corner turnbuckle and giving Kane a shoulder thrust from behind and then hits him with another one. Rhyno tries to go with one more shoulder thrust but Kane gives him a hard-hitting clothesline. Kane goes for another cover but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Rhyno takes Kane down with strikes to the back and follows it up with a running clothesline. Rhyno goes for a cover but Kane kicks out at 2. Rhyno Irish-whips Kane to the corner turnbuckle and hits Kane with another shoulder thrust. Rhyno puts Kane in a standing camel clutch but Kane picks Rhyno up by his legs and drops him on his back. Kane gives Rhyno a running powerslam and covers him but Rhyno ends up kicking out at 2. Kane tries to Irish whip Rhyno towards the ropes but Rhyno reverses it into a backdrop. Rhyno gives Kane a running kick to the face and attempts to go for a Gore but misses and gets a chokeslam from Kane. Kane gets the pinfall and retains his Intercontinental title. 

I quite liked this match. Both guys worked well here with Kane's usual big man work along with Rhyno underrated in-ring work. I wished Kane's arm would have came into play more in the match though. A little arm-work wouldn't have hurt. Although Rhyno working on Kane's back a bit in the match was close enough I guess. A solid Intercontinental title match. *Rating:* ★★★


*Rhyno vs Chris Benoit- RAW Is War 5/28/01*

Rhyno takes on one half of the WWF tag team champions, Chris Benoit. Benoit's ribs are taped here. Benoit goes after Rhyno with punches to the face and tries to Irish whip Rhyno to the ropes but Rhyno counters it, Irish whipping Benoit to the ropes and kicking Benoit in his injured abdomen. Rhyno picks Benoit for a body-press and slams him onto the canvas. Rhyno runs to the ropes for a running strike but Benoit counters it and hits Rhyno with a German suplex followed with another German suplex. Benoit tries to hit Rhyno with one more German suplex but Rhyno fights out of it and tries to hit Benoit with a clothesline but misses, getting yet another clothesline from Benoit. Benoit gives Rhyno a Crippler Crossface and Rhyno breaks out of the hold by grabbing onto the ropes. Benoit still has Rhyno in the Crippler Crossface until the referee breaks it up. Rhyno gets back up and hits Benoit with a Gore which knocks Benoit out of the ring. Rhyno throws Benoit back inside the ring and goes for a cover but Benoit kicks out at 2. Rhyno strikes Benoit with punches to the face with Benoit in the corner ropes but Benoit fights back and hits Rhyno with two German suplexes. Benoit sends Rhyno to the corner turnbuckle and hits him with Knife edge chops. Benoit places Rhyno on top of the turnbuckle and gives Rhyno a Superplex. Benoit goes for a cover but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Rhyno hits Benoit with a spinning Spinebuster to get back in control of this match. Rhyno attempts to hit Benoit with a Gore but Benoit counters it into a Crippler Crossface and Rhyno taps out.

This match was really good. It's Rhyno vs Benoit so that's pretty much to be expected.  Anyways, this match was great given how short it was. Some nice work with Rhyno targeting Benoit's injured abdomen and that nice counter with Benoit countering Rhyno's Gore into a Crossface. A good match that wasn't too long and got the job done by giving Benoit a strong win. *Rating:* ★★★1/2 


Rhyno (c) vs Raven for the WWF Hardcore title- Smackdown 5/31/01

This is Rhyno's first Hardcore title defense after beating Jericho for it on RAW Is War 5/28/01 and he dfends it against Raven. Raven makes his way to the ring with a shopping cart full of weapons in it. That's one way to use a shopping cart I guess. Rhyno makes his way to the ring and the match starts. Rhyno runs after Raven with Raven giving Rhyno a schoolboy. Rhyno kicks out at 2. Raven Irish whips Rhyno to the corner turnbuckle and hits him with a clothesline. Raven then gives Rhyno a knee to the face. Raven takes trashcan and bashes Rhyno in the head with it. Raven places the trashcan upside down and trips Rhyno onto the trashcan. Raven goes for a cover but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Raven takes a trashcan lid and hits Rhyno in the face with it. Raven hits Rhyno with the trashcan lid again with Rhyno flying out of the ring. Rhyno picks up a Handicap sign and hits Raven with it. Rhyno goes under the ring, dragging out a table and sliding it into the ring. Rhyno throws Raven back inisde the ring and then goes to place the table onto the corner turnbuckle. Rhyno picks Raven up and tries to throws him through the table but Raven counters it but eats a clothesline from Rhyno. Rhyno takes the trashcan lid that Raven bashed him with and places it in between the turnbuckles. Rhyno picks up another trashcan and hits Raven with it which takes Raven down. Rhyno begs for Raven to get up for a Gore but Rhyno misses and ends up getting stuck inside the trashcan that was placed in between the ropes. In a funny spot, Raven takes Rhyno by the legs and flips him onto the turnbuckle with the trashcan still on top of Rhyno's head. Raven hits Rhyno with a kitchen sink and goes for a cover but that doesn't put Rhyno out for the 123 count. Rhyno picks Raven up and rams him through the table. Rhyno goes for a pinfall and wins the match, also successfully retaining his Hardcore title.

Fun Hardcore match. While this wasn't anywhere near their Hardcore match at Backlash 2001, this was still a fun match with some good spots here and there along with Rhyno retaining his Hardcore title. *Rating: *★★3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Chris Benoit giving Rhyno the best match of his WWF/WWE career so far?

I'm shocked.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

This is super-random, but I just came across the full, unedited version of Triple H and Shawn Michaels induction of Mike Tyson. It becomes a drawn out DX promo, but it's hilarious. Near the end Hunter and Shawn are just trying to keep from losing their shit. It's probably on the WM 28 DVD, but for those who haven't seen it:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I completely agree with Yeah's statements. On that note, best in-ring performances of a wrestler in each respective character role/status (heel-face)?

Undertaker
Heel: Wrestlemania 18 against Flair (Smackdown 2002 against rookie Orton & Rumble 2002 as HMs)
Face: Wrestlemania 27 against Triple H (NWO 2002 against Big Show for the shout)

Eddie Guerrero
Heel: Smackdown 2005 against Rey and most of their other matches together
Face: Judgement Day 2004 against JBL (NWO 2004 versus Brock is really good as well)

Mick Foley
Heel: KOTR 1997 against Undertaker (Mind Games for the HM)
Face: Rumble 1999 against Rock & Rumble 2000 against Triple H (Tie)

Express your own, now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Elimination Chamber 2011:

Kofi vs Alberto Del Rio - **
Edge vs Drew McIntyre vs Rey Mysterio vs Kane vs Wade Barrett vs Big Show - ****1/2
The Corre vs Santino/Kozlov - *
The Miz vs Jerry Lawler - ***1/2
CM Punk vs John Morrison vs John Cena vs Randy Orton vs KING Sheamus vs R-Truth - ****

- Opener was as plain as day. Wasn't bad but just blah.

- First elimination chamber of the night and it fucking owned. McIntyre is a beast and the Edge/Rey finale is great and reminded me of their '09 one, only with Edge face this time. Awesome stuff.

- lol tag match. They never cared about these matches.

- I really liked Miz/Lawler. I remember being a tad skeptical going into the PPV but they really pulled it off well. Especially considering this is coming off those two awful Orton/Miz PPV matches.

- I think I'm in the minority here but I really like the Raw chamber and it's mainly because of Morrison. I thought his selling rocked and he had a couple sick spots too. Irritates me when people say he's a spot monkey considering he's done much more than that. Don't know why Truth was in this match, tbh. And the screwy finish with the Punk/Orton part seemed out of place other than their feud. But I still really liked this match.

Good show. (Y)


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

I have pretty much wrapped up watching both discs of the Best of In Your House blu-ray, minus the extras, and I have to say that HBK shows just how damned important he was during that era. If you take out the HBK matches from that set, you lose a star easily. Although, I know I'm in the minority here, but his match with Jeff Jarret was probably one of the top three matches on that set for me and I don't even like Double J. His match with Taker was fun, his match with Diesel better than their WM encounter to me, and his match with Mankind was of course great.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

> those two awful Orton/Miz PPV matches.


Hey i actually enjoyed those matches


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd say Michaels v. Jarrett is a top 5-7 Michaels singles match. It's completely terrific.

-----------

I kind of need a break watching 20 minute matches that I have to decide whether or not to add to a list of 100, so I’ve started watching Goldberg NOW! I made the list of graps-artists I want to ‘youtube’ and such, and I am making a rule that I must watch ten matches of each wrestler/team/whatever until I can swap to the next. Because rules make the world go ‘round. However I can keep going past ten if I want to (and likely will for people like Goldberg because he has 24 second matches). Because rules don’t make the world go ‘round. I’ll mainly look at shortish TV matches, but I’ll throw a big and/or longish match in there if I’m intrigued by it. So yeah, GOLDBERG is up now. Insert “who’s next” joke.



Goldberg v. Ray Traylor (Nitro 3/30/98)
Fun few minutes. Traylor was being kind of built up by commentators as one of the bigger and tougher Goldberg opponents so far, and he got Goldy’s number a couple of times. His strikes felt more damaging than most Goldberg enemies (I like how the Berg sells a strike, fwiw) and the shoulder block ‘test of BEEF’ thing came off as pretty equal. Goldberg had a pile of cool spots, hooking Traylor’s leg with his own leg for a trip, faking a run toward the rope and hitting a surprise clothesline, etc. Maybe I’m just biased, but Goldberg no-selling rarely bother me. I guess if I looked deeper and ‘analysed’ other people’s no selling v. Goldberg’s, I’d find a difference, but I won’t go out and defend him for no selling some shit. Though, to be perfectly honest, it doesn’t really come off like ‘no selling’. ‘No selling’, to me, is kind of shrugging off that the move ever happened. With Goldberg you KNOW that shit happened, but it didn’t do enough damage to break him down because he’s a fucking bulldozer. Here he kind of ‘no sells’ (for lack of a better term right now) a spinebuster, but he acknowledges the move – he falls, holds his in pain for a sec, but when Traylor turns around Goldy’s ready to spear him. I think there’s a difference between not selling a move the way he does and not selling the move the move a way someone shitty and completely no selly does. Am I making sense? I hope one day somebody puts the explanation I have in my head on paper. I know what I want to say, I just don’t know how to say it. For now, I’ll just say Goldberg ‘no-selling’ doesn’t bother me, because it doesn’t really come off as ‘no selling’.

Goldberg v. Rocco Rock (Nitro 4/13/98)
TPE’s WCW entrance music is one of the worst pieces of music I have ever heard. So this kind of ruled for two minutes or whatever. Rock bumps pretty tremendously for Goldberg’s big offense, and Goldy busts some the cool shit,. First move he does is just picking Rock up and chucking him so he flies seven feet in the air and lands almost flat on his ass. He hits a right hand later that Rock put over HUGELY. Bumping that big for a right hand usually looks like the seller is overdoing it, but with the way Rock bumped and the beefiness Goldberg has, it looked as believable as anything in a wrestling match. Rock tries to run away before Goldberg catches him, but Rock manages to get Goldy to run into the ring post. He dropkicks him into the steel steps in one of the weirdest spots I think I’ve seen. The kick didn’t look like it terribly connected…Goldberg didn’t look like he connected with the steps….yet it looked totally legit and I think Goldberg managed to knock the steps off without even making it looked like he did. It looked like someone pulled the steps form the other side. The commentators talked about how Goldberg hadn’t had a weapon-ish brawl yet, so Rock getting the table out and accidentally giving Goldberg enough rest time was a really cool ‘so much for fucking that’ moment.

Goldberg v. THE RENEGADE (Saturday Night 12/27/97)
Goldy cuts a (pre-taped) not shitty promo before the match, and I wonder if him being shit promo is also a myth. So this isn’t really a match. Renegade gets all ready to take Goldy on, and Goldy hits a weird looking spear before punching Renegade repeatedly and hitting the jackhammer. Then Renegade KICKS OUT OF THE FUCKING JACKHAMMER. Ha, did you buy that? Probably not. Who’s kicking out of the fucking jackhammer? IDK if this even got ten seconds so I can’t really say how ‘good’ it was; it’s hard to imagine someone making a ten second match boring. Prove me wrong, Wade Barrett.

Goldberg v. The Barbarian (Nitro 9/29/97)
Goldberg’s second televised match, I think. I love what they had going on with him at the beginning – Mike Tenay, the wrestling all-knower, knew absolutely nothing about Goldberg other than his name. The mystery surrounding Goldberg was really cool. The barbarian looked way mreo lsot than Goldberg here, but the match came out really ool. Goldy actually kind of works from underneath – Barbarian gets chopping and catches Goldberg’s high crossbody (yeah!) attempts and crotches him on the top rope (Goldbegr made that look more rough than normal, btw. Shiiiit I held my willy after that). Goldberg hits a pretty clean dropkick and a sort of awesome mid-section hurricanrana and does a neat sell job, even holding his back fter getting on offense. The Barbarian really didn’t do a whole ton here, I thought. He looked a little lazy and I think he should have stuck with teaming with Meng and beating the shit out of littler dudes instead. Still, this was really cool, and a perfectly good effort from green as goose shit Goldberg.

Goldberg v. Glacier (Nitro 12/29/97)
Goddamn…..Glacier’s entrance was two minutes long. The match wasn’t. Yet, like the rest of the short Goldberg matches, it turned out to be damn fun. Glacier tries to get on Goldberg early with chops, and I seriously like the way Goldberg sells a strike. Looks better and better each time. He throws an awesome elbow, too, which Galcier sells just as well by turning around, falling to one knee and holding his face. Goldberg hits his big power moves, catching a spin kick and thrusting Glacier downward. Everything he does makes like look like such a badass killer. I like how all of these Goldberg matches seem to have some sort of theme ‘Goldberg faces Ray Traylor…he never faced anybody that big before ‘Goldberg faces Rocco Rock….he never dealt with weapons before’ ‘Goldberg faces Glacier…Goldberg is undefeated, Glacier has only had two losses’. Needless to say Glacier wins this and goes on to have a better career, but this Goldberg guy was a little popular once, at least.

Goldberg v. Roadblock (Saturday Night 10/11/97)
So they lied out of their ass when they said Traylor was Goldberg’s biggest opponent yet, because Roadblock is one massive fat bastard. Still, I really love Goldberg going ‘around the world’ with WCW’s ridiculously big roster and thy can sell me the ‘Goldberg’s Biggest Opponent Yet!’ trend for as long I can take it as long as the entertaining squashes keep coming. This was kind of on the awkward side, but it was a ‘big guys slugging each other’ kind of awkward and I dig that kind of awkward. Goldberg hits an impressive spin kick, and a roll up where he winds up stretching Roadblock’s legs out. He continues to sell strikes really well and the jackhammer looked “HOLY SHIT” worthy. If it had the hot crowd that most Goldberg matches do it’d be more memorable and probably be “HOLY FUCKING DONKEY SHIT” worthy, though. For a guy who supposedly isn’t a good worker Goldberg sure as hell looks competent even with only one month as a pro.

Goldberg v. Bam Bam Bigelow (Thunder 9/9/99)
This was a little weird and kind of disappointing. Bam Bam gets cheap shots in, stalls/hesitates, and Goldberg hits his ‘oh no you fucking don’t’ big moves, but it didn’t fully…come together I guess. The ref bumps ridiculously on a Bam Bam punch, he looked like Super Mario when he touches an enemy and flies over the level with his arms up. The stupid thing about this was Goldy and Bam Bam both wrestle normally as if nothing happened. Bam Bam raked the eyes, but how many heels rake the eyes even when the ref is looking directly at them? Like, all of them. Ideally he could at least have gone low, but Goldberg still had most of the match. It takes a couple of minutes for Bigelow’s Jersey Triad buddy DDP to get in the ring, and that easily leads to the best part of the match. Bigelow and Page send Goldberg for an Irish whip, and when Goldberg comes back he spears Bigelow and Page is all ‘oh the hell was that I’m getting the fuck out of here’. This wasn’t bad, but I guess I let expectations get a little high for it. How’s their SuperBrawl match? Don’t think I’ve seen it.

Goldberg v. Batista (Raw, late 2003)
Batista collected HHH’s bounty by injuring Goldberg’s ankle a few weeks earlier, and I dig his way of limping. He runs, he does the ‘kick’ thing during his entrance, he even fucking military presses Batista, but he has this really cool sub-wobble to his leg. Once Batista starts wrapping the leg around steel posts and shit, Goldberg does a pretty fucking good legitimate sell job. This match gets maybe four minutes and Goldberg seemed to be in pretty big danger, while at the same time busting out his moves realistically. Brilliant spot where Batista sprints toward Goldy and Goldberg rolls backward to avoid him so Batista runs into the turnbuckle; felt like an awesome ‘narrow escape’. The spear looked tremendous; he just plummeted towards Batista as some form of hope spot and needed the ropes to hold himself up after it, because of the bad ankle. HHH runs in and goes for the leg, but this, like seemingly all Goldberg matches, was a fun few minutes for what it was.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

GOLDBERG LOVE :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I really should just buy a Goldberg comp and work my way through it; although I wouldn't doubt it if you could find his entire career online. He was in EIGHTY TWO TELEVISED MATCHES IN 1998, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? These include matches with Meng, Finlay, Regal, and the like. Since I'm a squash match aficionado I think it would be best to give some Goldberg a good watch.

I might throw out a top 5 Brock squashes today since that's a more important list than anything else I could do.

Watching JBL Vs Eddie from Judgment Day to see how it holds up in the MOTY race.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gonna try to watch that hhh/storm match


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Goldberg, today will be dedicated to him

Our Lord and Savior, GOLDBERG


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah.

JBL Vs Eddie was fucking amazing.

Kind of fitting that the two matches that I've been in love with lately feature Eddie Guerrero in completely different roles, fucking versatility man. Most versatile performer ever perhaps? Maybe it's still Flair, but to watch Eddie's despicable performance against Rey from 6/23/2005 one day and then watch Eddie's defiant babyface performance from Judgment Day 2004 the next... I'm fucking convinced man, this is insane. I'm just going to watch the rest of the Viva La Raza DVD just for the hell of it in all honesty, this JBL Vs Eddie series is fucking rocking. The post match beatdown by Eddie is a breathtaking segment and the DQ finish was fucking brilliant. Eddie draped in blood with JBL hammering away at his face only for Eddie to fire back was.... Unreal to say the least. I don't know if I prefer this or the Mania triple threat, but this was hands down the performance of the year from 2004 out of Guerrero. Even though JBL ruled in this too, as there's a spot where JBL gets up and climbs throws Eddie over the announce table only for JBL to jump over the table and start instantaneously pound away at Eddie some more. Little intricacies like that really made this fucking match fantastic to me, what a fucking story.

Going to look at the JBL Cage match now.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/storm sd 2002 ****

-extremely fun TV match
- have enjoy a hunter match that much in along time


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Wargames - 7/4/87. Best wargames of all time. Would be second only to ROH's Cage of Death match if you count that as a wargames match. I find these matches too difficult to give stars to because they're such anomalies.

Windham vs Flair - Battle of the Belts II 2/14/86. ****3/4. Finally got around to watching this match. This match has a formula that I've never seen before and for '86 is absolutely incredible. They go for around 45 minutes at a blistering pace. Windham dominates the first 15-20 minutes but then Flair finally gets control and beats Windham up big time. Windham attempts comeback after comeback but all of them cleverly thwarted by the "Nature Boy" until the finish.

Windham vs Flair - 1/20/87. This is my 4th watch of this match. Every other time I've thought it was a snoozefest. This time was no different. There is no drama. At no point did I think Windham would win or did he really have control. I keep watching this match to see if I can see what's so special about it and I just fail to see anything. *** and that might be generous.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One Set i am really looking forward to getting is the Best Of War Games DVD :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Windham vs Flair - 1/20/87. This is my 4th watch of this match. Every other time I've thought it was a snoozefest. This time was no different. There is no drama. At no point did I think Windham would win or did he really have control. I keep watching this match to see if I can see what's so special about it and I just fail to see anything. *** and that might be generous.


I think everyone has that "classic" match they just don't care for. I, much like a lot of others, really love that match.

---------

Goldberg love puts a smile on my face. It seems Yeah & myself _(egocentric?)_ have been trying the hardest to get through to people that the man was good. More Goldberg fans need to speak up. Although, yesterday I watched what was probably the worst Goldberg match ever. vs Mongo. Lets not be stunned by this. Goldberg was fine enough for a green guy having his longest match to date at the time in latter '97. Mongo was just the worst opponent for him to having. He _(Mongo)_ was super clunky with his selling and portrayed the general awful nature that is associated with him. Goldberg put effort in. Bless him. I love how the Goldberg vs La Parka thirty second match in '98 is a million times better than vs Mongo.

---------

Eddie vs JBL is my choice for 2004 MOTY. From WWE at least. I'd have to relive the Punk vs Joe series and compare the bunch. Blanking on Puro in '04 sadly. Huh. Am I on the verge of a new project?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wm 20 3 way ****1/4


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Eddie vs JBL is my choice for 2004 MOTY. From WWE at least. I'd have to relive the Punk vs Joe series and compare the bunch. Blanking on Puro in '04 sadly. Huh. Am I on the verge of a new project?


Akiyama vs Kobashi happened in '04. I give it ****1/4 while Meltzer and bunch of people gave it 5*.
Kobashi also defended the GHC belt vs Taue (****1/2 from me) and vs Takayama (****1/2 as well). Outside of his title defenses I don't recall anything about '04.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Somehow it was NOAH which I jumped to when attempting to conjure up memorable Puro matches circa '04. Appears my subconscious was on the right track. I don't have much to watch today except for the last two matches at Starrcade '97 & yesterday's Impact broadcast. Those three Kobashi matches are sounding mighty plum atm.

Speaking of 2004 and a specific match brought up. I found this atm:










I'm far from one to stray away towards hyperbole, but if this isn't one of the greatest sights I have ever seen, then that bar is raised to unfathomable heights. Picture gives me goosebumps.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

How are you guys talking about great Triple H babyface performances but not bringing up the Last Man Standing match with Orton from No Mercy 2007?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did we even put over one of his performances other than vs Storm in '02?

I have to see the LMS match again. Been years. Remember loving it.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

Can somebody please give me some suggestions on what to watch?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

kanerules88 said:


> Can somebody please give me some suggestions on what to watch?


this is what i'm watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Td_50Y59mg8

Kevin Steen vs El Generico - Final Battle 2010. Their blowoff match from when Steen turned Generico at the 2009 Final Battle. Just watch the opening promo and try not to be intrigued at this match. Incredible ****1/2+ match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the build for the match > the actual match itself.

You can go back into 2004 and find better matches between the two. That one didn't transcend to the place I wanted. First watch it was "a classic". Following that I've noticed it is a pretty run of the mill spot after spot type of match - with the added x-factors of both men being good. Or amazing in Generico's case. Not to mention that morgue of an audience. It took a guy having to be dropped on a ladder, put through a table, or suplexed through the barricade in order to have 'em react.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I kind of thought in my first watch it was meh and on subsequent watches it is better. Their matches in PWG at BOLA and SteenWolf are better. I also fucking adore their match at Death before Dishonor VIII because it was amazing to me as it was the first match of indy wrestling I'd ever watched. The feud in 2010 is absolutely perfect. Fell apart when Steen went back to ROH though.



> Not to mention that morgue of an audience. It took a guy having to be dropped on a ladder, put through a table, or suplexed through the barricade in order to have 'em react.


This is hyperbole to an extent but I'll grant you some of it. This was also the last match of an amazing card and followed a 35 minute or so Richards vs Strong match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's probably my second least favorite match they had. It's fine and all, just nothing special. Has their final match vs each other - Ladder War IV - trumped. Ladder War IV being their flattest match in their long list of matches.

Fans in ROH circa 2010 were crappy all around. In years passed fans were hot most of the entire way through. Long, draining matches prior didn't kill them. I just think it was a sign of the dip the company took more than anything. By that time it really wasn't the same company. Feud was fine, but for my personal interests I really thought it could've been better. Something about it at the end of the day fell flat for me. Not poorly flat, but flat enough. Their work in PWG >>>. Such phenomenal emotion conveyed. Even on a whim like at BOLA 2011 with the little kid in the crowd.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

It would be nice to see WWE stars do that to Cena fans. Be a *


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Milk the emotion for all its worth. Take tips from the Kevin Steen heel tactics & El Generico babyface performance school. It'll make things grand.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista vs Finlay (Smackdown 8/12/2006) - ★★★½

Wow, a good singles match from Batista in 2006? Didn't expect that until the next year would roll by. Good control segment by Finlay and Batista actually improves his usually weak selling here. Also good comeback by Big Dave until Booker's interference that leads to the DQ and beatdown.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Kind of a funny question, but I was in town with my dad today and we went into a bookstore because my dad wanted want to have a look - and I was browsing and I was surprised to see that they had a few wrestling books, namely Jericho's undisputed book, and a Mick Foley and Bret hart book. I've been in many bookstores before and I never really see wrestling books, and when you consider this bookstore was rather small, it was pretty cool to see some wrestling books. Anyway, has anyone here read Jericho's undisputed book? I've heard good things about it.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Foley's, Jericho's, and Bret's autobiographies are the best wrestling autobiographies out there. There's really nothing more to say besides read it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Foley's, Jericho's, and Bret's autobiographies are the best wrestling autobiographies out there. There's really nothing more to say besides read it.


Yeah. Jericho's definitely interests me, Foley's a bit, and I don't care about Bret Hart. I've only just started to gain a appreciation for books so I might end up getting Jericho's book to read, could easily get it next time I return to that store.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I may be a flair mark but TO BE THE MAN is a great read and good pick up. I hate reading books in general and usually spark notes school work but I read the entire flair one and it was great. He may come off a little self-centered and douchey but its great nonetheless


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I finished reading _Undisputed_ a couple of weeks ago. It's an awesome book and definitely recommended, specially to other wrestling fans.

Might have to give some other books a read too, including Foley, Bret and Eddie's.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Anyway, has anyone here read Jericho's undisputed book? I've heard good things about it.


Undisputed: How to Become the World Champion in 1,372 Easy Steps? Read it a few years ago back in '11. All I can say is it's an overall awesome book and definitely worth the read for any Jerichoholic... or anyone in general for that matter. Kept me interested throughout. Only WWE book I've ever read actually. Also heard positive things about his first book A Lion's Tale.

Jericho can wrestle, talk, entertain, act, sing, dance, invent Canada, and write books. Jesus, is there anything this guy can't do? All the talent in the palm of his hands.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I finished reading _Undisputed_ a couple of weeks ago. It's an awesome book and definitely recommended, specially to other wrestling fans.
> 
> Might have to give some other books a read too, including Foley, Bret and Eddie's.





VladMan2012 said:


> Undisputed: How to Become the World Champion in 1,372 Easy Steps? Read it a few years ago back in '11. All I can say is it's an overall awesome book and definitely worth the read for any Jerichoholic. Kept me interested throughout. Only WWE book I've ever read actually.
> 
> Jericho can wrestle, talk, entertain, act, sing, dance, invent Canada and can also write a book. Jesus, is there anything this guy can't do? All the talent in the palm of his hands.


(Y)

Think I'll definitely have to check it out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I might throw out a top 5 Brock squashes today since that's a more important list than anything else I could do.


Please do.  The don't have to be in order or anything, just a quick note on five Brock squashes to really look out for would be cool. I really like the one against Mark Henry (surpriiiiise~ :side. 



Obfuscation said:


> Goldberg love puts a smile on my face. It seems Yeah & myself _(egocentric?)_ have been trying the hardest to get through to people that the man was good. More Goldberg fans need to speak up. Although, yesterday I watched what was probably the worst Goldberg match ever. vs Mongo. Lets not be stunned by this. Goldberg was fine enough for a green guy having his longest match to date at the time in latter '97. Mongo was just the worst opponent for him to having. He _(Mongo)_ was super clunky with his selling and portrayed the general awful nature that is associated with him. Goldberg put effort in. Bless him. I love how the Goldberg vs La Parka thirty second match in '98 is a million times better than vs Mongo.


Yeah, we try, but I don't think very many people will bite/have bitten. Too many are stuck in that 'Goldberg sucked!!!!' myth and won't let go of it because of whatever reason. Maybe one day it can change, but for now......WE CAN ENJOY GOLDBERG, and not worry about those who think he was shitty. It's not that I think he was a GREAT worker, anyway. He's just way, way, way ahead of the 'lmao goldberg sucked' opinion that seems to be maddeningly popular. 

I kind of like Mongo (even if he wasn't good.....I'm not sure why I actually like him, tbf) so I will totally watch Goldberg/Mongo. Was it the one from Starrcade?



Obfuscation said:


> Eddie vs JBL is my choice for 2004 MOTY. From WWE at least. I'd have to relive the Punk vs Joe series and compare the bunch. Blanking on Puro in '04 sadly. Huh. Am I on the verge of a new project?


I'd have Takayama v. Kobashi, Hashimoto v. Kawada and maybe el Hijo del Santo v. el Hijo del Perro Aguayo above it. I'm re-watching all of them for the 2000s top 100, sooner or later. Pretty damn confident it's US MOTY, though. Right now my #2 US MOTY is Necro v. Klein.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Speaking of Goldberg, isn't there a DVD in the works?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, we try, but I don't think very many people will bite/have bitten. Too many are stuck in that 'Goldberg sucked!!!!' myth and won't let go of it because of whatever reason. Maybe one day it can change, but for now......WE CAN ENJOY GOLDBERG, and not worry about those who think he was shitty. It's not that I think he was a GREAT worker, anyway. He's just way, way, way ahead of the 'lmao goldberg sucked' opinion that seems to be maddeningly popular.
> 
> I kind of like Mongo (even if he wasn't good.....I'm not sure why I actually like him, tbf) so I will totally watch Goldberg/Mongo. Was it the one from Starrcade?
> 
> I'd have Takayama v. Kobashi, Hashimoto v. Kawada and maybe el Hijo del Santo v. el Hijo del Perro Aguayo above it. I'm re-watching all of them for the 2000s top 100, sooner or later. Pretty damn confident it's US MOTY, though. Right now my #2 US MOTY is Necro v. Klein.


It is what it is. Not like it matters to me, I just can't wrap my head around it. Goldberg was good at what he did. Simple enough claim to accept - especially when watching you see its true. vs Steiner, Meng, Jericho, & of course vs DDP and you'll be sold on him. Heck, even the Starrcade match vs Nash is fine. Always liked it.

I don't hate Mongo like I used to after viewing '97. I mean he's bad in matches yeah, but he's had his few good ones. Ironically enough vs fellow Football players. Match vs Kevin Greene is rockin. Although Mongo vs Jarrett is death. Don't want to go down that path. Nor any Jarrett in '97. I say this a lot b/c I can't take it when he works so poorly. It was indeed their Starrcade match. Random table spots for life.

You got to upload Necro vs Klein already. b/c even IF I did view it years ago, I can't say there is any memory of it left in my head. Only from their match in '07 I got on DVD.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Uploaded it a week ago.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO-O1OdRWIs The video is way longer than the match is, just as a little note.

You have the 07 match? CZW 1/13/07? Is it good? I mean it probably HAS to be good, but HOW good is it? I've wanted to see that ever since the 04 match blew my balls off. Question mark.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao that ring is SCATTERED with plunder. Excellent.

That's the one. ummmmm, you know I've seen it a ton, yet I feel like this demands a current viewing to sell the match properly. I know I like it. Crowd is a bit dull. Think Eddie Kingston is on commentary incredibly pissed off during it too. Two spots ring out as incredibly brutal. Isn't deathmatch-y like the '04 one. It's more "smashmouth" I'm gonna punch you around the ECW arena and use this one steel chair type of match. With the hilarious standard CZW type finish to go along with it. _(I think that's how the '04 match ends too...)_


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

EDIT: Never mind, found it.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Uploaded it a week ago.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO-O1OdRWIs The video is way longer than the match is, just as a little note.


:mark: THANK YOU!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally caught up with this week's Raw and SD shows.

Orton & Hell No vs Shield - ★★★★ (AWESOME. Orton and Bryan are both on another level of overness with the crowd.)
Bryan vs Ryback - ★★★½
Bryan & Orton vs Shield - ★★★½ (I like Orton's performance in these Shield matches but Bryan is just something else. He's truly INTENSE. Just remove the goofy haircut and homeless beard then he'll be perfect!)

Still need to check out Sheamus' Main Event matches from the past two shows.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't believe it's been over three months since the last time Randy Orton & Wade Barrett have locked up .

A match with Danielson is just what the doctor ordered to get something of quality from Randy these days.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

smackdown was pretty good

-really liked axel/Jericho and that finish :mark:
- Bryan/Orton reigns/rollins was decent as well


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

A download from IVP is kind of failing on me right now and I’m trying to get to work again (HOUR LATER UPDATE – IT WORKED), so while it’s downloading – MORE GOLDBERG!

Goldberg v. Meng (Saturday Night 1/31/98)
OK, truth be told this was a bit of a mess. At first it was kind of sloppy and kind of awkward and Goldberg looked green as hell, but it was really fun, and seeing Goldberg work underneath was neat. Then the match went on and it kind of got of continually worse. Goldberg had no idea how to work a hope spot in here. Usually he bulldozes through shit and his ‘hope spots’ are just him murdering through his opponent and pretty much winning. In the Batista match I watched yesterday he worked a really good version of that with the one-legged spear and it came off as big and awesome. This was just a little uncomfortable to watch. I mentioned yesterday how I love how each Goldberg match seemed to have a theme, and the theme of this was that Goldberg had slaughtered through everybody in less than 90 seconds. This was a much longer match. Meng got most of it, and I loved him swinging wildly with the fists, but he took too much of the match and Goldberg was no good playing that kind of role. Goldberg’s hope spots couldn’t be him running through shit and winning because here was so much of the match left, and they had to switch back to Meng in control. He’d fight back decently, but then he’d also kind of wander around and do nothing. He’d Irish whip Meng in the corner multiple times and kind of just walk slowly toward him and throw a clothesline. I think he expected Meng to hit the buckle and run back, so when Meng didn’t, Goldberg didn’t have time to run toward him or some shit. IDK, it was awkward and a bit clumsy. Near the end Goldberg hits a powerslam on Meng and Mneg lands on his fucking head. Then Goldy takes Jimmy Hart from the top rope and Hart nearly lands on HIS fucking head. This is probably better than I’m making it sound, and it was decent overall, but if I want to show evidence that Goldberg was a good worker I’d steer away from it. I know these two have to have an awesome two minute match in them.

Goldberg v. Yuji Nagata (Thunder 1/29/98)
Two days before the Meng match and this was pretty much what I wanted from the Meng match. Not entirely, but it was short, o the point, and more explosive. Nagata relies mostly on kicks, and that fazes Goldberg enough for him to take him down, but the Berg knows take-downs of his own and is obviously going to get the strength advantage. Goldberg’s legbar take-down thing is just so awesome to watch. Nagata goes for a supex and Goldberg has this monstrously great counter where he fcuking twists and swings Nagata around while they’re still in the suplex position. Imagine Cody Rhodes’ finisher, but instead of looking like an embarrassing and elaborately set-up backyard bullshit move, it looks fucking awesome. Nagata took it like a champion, as well; twisting his body perfectly like an awesome dragon-screw leg-whip sell. 

Goldberg v. Mike Tolbert (Saturday Night 1/24/98)
Wow, so far today I’ve only watched Goldberg matches from the January of 1998. So I said (when talking about Mike Enos matches) that I might find an entertaining Mike Tolbert match while watching Goldberg, and I was right. I mean this goes about twenty seconds and a twenty second squash not being entertaining to even some degree means you should quit the pro wrestling forever, but nonetheless, twenty seconds or not, it was an entertaining match. Tolbert throws bad strikes at Goldberg and eats the spear pretty shittily (yes, shittily). Actually I haven’t been a big fan of how anybody’s really taken Berg’s spear so far. I don’t if Goldberg doesn’t given them enough time to jump, they are afraid they’ll actually get hurt, or these just aren’t guys that take a good spear hit, but I can’t remember anybody so far who’s really gone for a spear sell full force, like Dolph Ziggler did with Edge (as an example). Huh, that’s strange, I suddenly want to know if Goldberg ever squashed Psicosis.

Goldberg v. The Cat (Thunder)
I never realised how big Miller was. This was pretty brilliant. Miller hits a superkick and Goldberg takes a tumble toward the ropes. You get a camera shot of Goldberg’s face while Miller is celebrating his kick, and he looks all ‘no he fucking didn’t’. Goldberg just comes rampaging with a spear and jackhammer and then of course the Cat kicks out and wins in two seconds b/c he was more protected than Goldberg.

Goldberg v. Fit Finlay (Thunder…..I don’t when this is. Tony Schiavone says it the opener of the show and I cannot imagine Goldberg being on the first match of a card of Thunder anywhere past February of 1998, if that)
I was hoping Fit would be the one who would do the Psicosis bump on the spear, but no cigar. STILL, Finlay sells better than most wrestlers in history and puts over Goldberg’s shit massively. Boinging on kicks, holding ribs, getting air of all of the power moves, he never disappoints. Finlay is usually the guy on top, no matter who he is facing. I saw him in a TV match with Randy Savage in 1996 (his debut year in WCW), and he as in control of the most of the match despite Savage being the big star. But Finlay did not get most of the offense on Goldberg. He tried swinging and like most guys, managed to get Goldberg in trouble for a few seconds, but Fit was usually resorting to begging off and poking eyes. This was a bucket of fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The fact that Meng Vs Goldie wasn't the cream of that crop makes me sad .

Speaking of SQUASHES, just thought I'd point out that there are four BROCK LESNAR VS MATT HARDY SQUASHES out there that everybody should check out, especially the first two. Actually, I'm going to throw up a few short BROCK matches to get everybody's panties wet. STARTING WITH THIS.






REFEREE STOPPAGE.

:brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When did Brock hit the F-5 on Jeff Hardy again? I think it was on an edition of Smackdown. WWE were geniuses to feed the ultra popular Hardys to Brock. Established his heat in not time squashing the lovable kids.

Goldberg vs Meng happened at least a few times. Once you hit the mark in latter '98 - Goldberg as World champion - they have a four minute or so match that main events Nitro (or was the "final" match) and it ruled. WCW kept putting over how Meng could be the guy to defeat Goldberg. I CAN'T be getting this wrong either. Its one of those memories that has lasted from my childhood ever since I saw it air. Give me the link to the Finlay match now. Please dear science do so.

Yeah go jump on Goldberg vs Raven if you haven't yet. That along with the La Parka squashes are like the best ones to watch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Goldberg vs Meng happened at least a few times. Once you hit the mark in latter '98 - Goldberg as World champion - they have a four minute or so match that main events Nitro (or was the "final" match) and it ruled. WCW kept putting over how Meng could be the guy to defeat Goldberg. I CAN'T be getting this wrong either. Its one of those memories that has lasted from my childhood ever since I saw it air. Give me the link to the Finlay match now. Please dear science do so.
> 
> Yeah go jump on Goldberg vs Raven if you haven't yet. That along with the La Parka squashes are like the best ones to watch.


Yeah, I saw like four different Goldberg/Mengs on YouTube and decided if I was blown away by the one I watched I'd checked them each out. That obv didn't happen, but I'm watching the rest eventually anyway. I seriously watch every Goldberg match available on the net. 

I have a bad memory of extended squashes, but Goldberg v. Raven might be the best extended squash I can remember. I think it's definitely the best Goldberg squash, anyway, and a completely perfect 'Goldberg v. the world' match. Fuck it, I'm watching it again soon. 

Goldy/Finlay (found a link different to the link I watched and it turns out the match was 2/19/98) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN_IYqPyifk


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It is a pleasure watching these Shield matches and I actually love this Daniel Bryan storyline.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You did? Last time I looked I couldn't find a single Goldberg vs Meng match for the life of me. Which was terribly obnoxious. Or maybe it was Wrath vs Meng now that I think about it. Idk. I know back in 2011 I planned on watching every Goldberg match in order. I got to a decent level. Like around May of '98. I should finish it. Then again, I'm starting WCW '98 now and I'll probably just let it come whatever may.

I'll say it is. 4:20 iirc and it's brilliant. Could have been on a PPV and it'll be fantastic. Everything about the match worked. And it was hyped up beautifully. WCW did it right that night. The night before was Spring Stampede '98. I know DDP vs Raven ruled, but did Goldberg vs Saturn? It went eight minutes and I do believe it had the Flock trying to interfere again meaning multiple demolishing moments.

Finlay still had his long hair in early '98? Ha. LEE MARSHALL ON COMMENTARY.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

the fact I actually typed 'goldberg vs meng' in the youtube search to actively look for a match up b/w the two instead of just writing 'goldberg' like I normally would helps. :$ I REALLY wanted to see a match between Goldberg and Meng. 

I'm definitely interested in Goldberg/Saturn. I've never really been impressed with Saturn, and Goldberg kind of suffered in a longer match, so I wonder what it was like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've always liked Saturn. Felt like I'm alone in that one too. Is it a bald/shaved head guys thing? The Cat was actually awesome in '97 too despite popular belief with his James Brown gimmick. That reminds me of Scott Norton too. Yeah, he's good. More stigma follows him yet he was plenty fine in '97 too. vs Giant at Fall Brawl was awesome.

I liked how Heenan made the same call you did about Finlay usually dominating his opponents in matches yet Goldberg just dominated him. Say what you will about not getting the perfect bump on the spear, but the fact it came out of nowhere got a genuine surprised reaction from me. It was like Paul Heyman on commentary level WHAM! 2:35 and all awesome. Even on the mild awkward spot where it looked like a belly to belly would happen only for Finlay to poke Goldberg right in the eye.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I was wondering where they were going with that btb and Finlay just saves it by stabbing the eye. He can no wrong.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Look what I just found:






:dancingpenguin


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If I watch that I will go into a state of comatose. Something that great cannot possibly exist without planets shaking in sync.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The Stenier-Test series was quite a burst of FUN shenanigans, both ppv matches were solid, especially Unforgiven and the storyline, was interesting to say the least.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

bigbuxxx said:


> *Windham vs Flair - Battle of the Belts II 2/14/86. ****3/4. Finally got around to watching this match. This match has a formula that I've never seen before and for '86 is absolutely incredible. They go for around 45 minutes at a blistering pace. Windham dominates the first 15-20 minutes but then Flair finally gets control and beats Windham up big time. Windham attempts comeback after comeback but all of them cleverly thwarted by the "Nature Boy" until the finish.*



Why have they not put this match on DVD?


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Fluze said:


> The Stenier-Test series was quite a burst of FUN shenanigans, both ppv matches were solid, especially Unforgiven and the storyline, was interesting to say the least.


Completely agreed, it was a nice play on the Macho Man/Elizabeth and Mero/Sable storylines prior. It was really the first time that Test got to display his charisma and Stacy played a great babyface in peril while Steiner was well, Steiner lol. IMO one of the bright spots on a less than great RAW in 2003.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

STEINER/TEST was unintentionally hilarious. This is what matters the most:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Watching some matches since I'm at work and at my weekend job, as Batista would say, using the internet for personal enjoyment when there are no customers and nothing to do is not only welcomed... it's allowed.

Matches I've watched so far:

Taker/Rock NWO 02- ***1/2 (Enjoyable match and probably the best Taker/Rock singles match at that)
Lesnar/HHH SS- *** (I've really tried so hard to like this match more)
Shield/Super Friends EC 2013- ***1/2 (same as above)
Shield/Ryback and Hell No TLC 2012- ****1/2 (Loved it as always)
Punk/Bryan OTL 2012- ****1/2 (Same as above)

Going for Taker/Punk from Mania next if I can find it. Otherwise, not sure. Might give Lesnar/Angle Ironman a watch to kill the time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't remember a thing about Taker/Rock, one match ive been meaning to watch for ages, may do later


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

JBL vs Eddie Guerrero for the WWE Championship Judgement Day (2004) ***1/2


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

SpookshowTony said:


> JBL vs Eddie Guerrero for the WWE Championship Judgement Day (2004) ***1/2


You're missing a star in rating. Seriously, that match was awesome and i have it as MOTY, tied with Eddie-Brock. Although, i think WM20 triple threat is good, just not better than the former two.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Punk WM29- ****3/4

Wow, the match may have just become my personal favorite of all time on this watch. I mean, I've loved the match since witnessing it live, but damn... the match was near flawless. Perfectly paced, both men looked amazing, the story told was awesome and the psychology was incredible. I'd even put it above Taker/HBK WM26 for the time being... though I'm going to give that a re-watch right after I finish writing this to see if it holds/improves as well. But yeah, the beginning and little moments throughout the match with Punk using Taker's taunts/mannerisms perfectly fit in to the disrespect storyline. Not to mention taking old school as well and then failing with it the second time when he got cocky and waited too long on the ropes was perfect and again, fit into the match, mainly his character. Also loved the moments like Taker attempting his dive and Heyman getting in the way, the sit-up from the GTS and staredown between the two men while in it, and even, yes, the GTS into the tombstone. I used to have a problem with this but the way I saw it, Punk didn't fully hit the GTS as it only seemed to get the chest. Whether this was intentional or not I don't know, but it played into the tombstone afterwards perfectly and gave us an amazing nearfall, as while you'd expect guys like HBK and HHH to kick out of the tombstone, a heel CM Punk was a different story especially with how it was done. Hell, even the table spot where it didn't break kinda worked. I mean, it would've been better had the table broke, but with it looking like it hurt Punk more than Taker, it shows the level of risk someone would go to to end the streak. It ended up working just fine. And one big plus this match has is it didn't become a finisher fest like the last few streak matches have become... and not that finisher fests are wrong to do at times, but they are done a bit much. It adds to the drama but part it also potentially takes away from the drama of future matches if you see a guy kicking out of all another guy's finishers multiple times, like what happened with Taker/HHH the last couple of years. Because of those matches, a lot of people found it hard to take Punk as a serious threat to the streak. Oh, and then of course the finish, with a fucking fantastic looking tombstone to end the match. Seriously, one of the best looking tombstones ever imo. Oh, and then there's the crowd. Being there live, let me tell you, the TV/PC doesn't come close to how it was, but it's still great how even in the open stadium and through mediocre speakers it sounds like the crowd never stopped with the noise.

So what keeps the match from *****? Two things, first of which is the bit screwy countering sequence that happened at the end. They kinda made it work but it felt like there was some miscommunication and/or Punk's leg was giving out. The second and bigger thing, kind of going along with what I said above, is that there wasn't any big nearfall where it looked like the streak was ending. I mean, the urn spot would've been great pre-HBK/HHH streak matches, but nowadays it didn't work as well. I'm not gonna lie though, when I was there and Punk hit Taker with the urn and went for the cover, with everyone and myself counting and not being able to think, I thought it was over. But in hindsight it was a pretty weak nearfall for a streak match and that was the best one on Punk's side of things. Of course as mentioned before, Taker tombstoning Punk and Punk kicking out was an amazing nearfall and even looking back, it amazes me the match didn't end there. 

So yeah, overall a modern day masterpiece of a match and the best match since Taker/HBK WM25, and one of the best of all time. A must-watch, especially if you're a fan of Taker and/or Punk.

Edit: Oh, and to add to my marking of Taker/Punk, both entrances and the video package were amazing. Taker's entrance especially, GOAT entrace imo.

---

Now then, off to watch Taker/HBK WM26 and see if that goes up as well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fucking love punk/taker, haven't watched it since the day after mania but I had it at ****1/2+. It really is a masterpiece from living colour performing to punk mocking taker to the final tomberstone. Great match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sure i had Punk/Taker at ****1/4, but i havn't seen it since Mania so i need a rewatch me thinks.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I have to give Punk/Taker another watch just to see if it is better than the last vieweing. I gave it a ★★★★1/2 and remember digging it on the last watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfCjzDYxYI4 :mark:

:Edit Punks entrance


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I rewatched it shortly after Mania and it wasn't as good as first time. Still a ★★★★ match.

And on another note, last night I watched Orton vs Taker from 2002. One of the better 5 minute matches I've seen. Orton looked pretty strong and Taker put on a good heel performance. Orton doing an outside dive was shocking, though. Funny how different the dynamics here are compared to when they feuded. This top 100 Orton match project should be fun!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Will you be watching the ENTIRE Orton-Barrett series for your project 8*D?

Oh & JBL Vs Eddie Guerrero CAGE from 6/29/2004 is really good. Not GREAT, well KINDA GREAT..... But not really, really great. If that makes sense. GREATEST REVIEW EVA. ***** or something.

Thoughts on Angle/Eddie 4/14/2005?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Will you be watching the ENTIRE Orton-Barrett series for your project 8*D?


Randy Orton's career:

1% of his matches were against Taker
1% of his matches were against Christian
3% of his matches were against Cena
5% of his matches were against HHH
90% of his matcheswere against Wade Barrett


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Will you be watching the ENTIRE Orton-Barrett series for your project 8*D?


Hell naw!

But I will check out some of them just for clarification. That includes their PPV matches and some non-no contest street fight they had in late 2011 or early last year. I would love to watch all his 600 however many matches profightdb shows me but I don't have the patience to sit through some of the boring shit he's done in the past few years plus a bunch of annoying tag matches.



> Thoughts on Angle/Eddie 4/14/2005?


★★★¾ imo. Their best match together.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FACT: Orton has has more televised/PPV matches against Wade Barrett than anybody else in his career.

20 Vs Barrett
16 Vs HHH
16 Vs Cena

You can't make this shit up folks :lol. (Seriously, fuck this company for giving us TWENTY Orton Vs Barrett Matches)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only 20? lol, seriously thought there was more. Here's another question... how many minutes in total have their matches taken up? 

Also, have there been any two men matched up on TV as much as Orton/Barrett?

Oh, and god forbid someone try to find out how many house show matches Barrett/Orton have had... :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Their duo of 2010 PPV main events are some of the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen in all honesty. Perhaps the dullest main event matches I have ever seen in this era outside of the obvious Punk-Rock, which was just an orgy of shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> If I watch that I will go into a state of comatose. Something that great cannot possibly exist without planets shaking in sync.


I just woke up from said coma. Five minute match knocks you out for twelve hours. Warning.



Fluze said:


> The Stenier-Test series was quite a burst of FUN shenanigans, both ppv matches were solid, especially Unforgiven and the storyline, was interesting to say the least.





Matt_Yoda said:


> Completely agreed, it was a nice play on the Macho Man/Elizabeth and Mero/Sable storylines prior. It was really the first time that Test got to display his charisma and Stacy played a great babyface in peril while Steiner was well, Steiner lol. IMO one of the bright spots on a less than great RAW in 2003.


(Y)

I had fun with the matches too. Particularly Bad Blood. Steiner's apron botch, classic.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> FACT: Orton has has more televised/PPV matches against Wade Barrett than anybody else in his career.
> 
> 20 Vs Barrett
> 
> You can't make this shit up folks :lol. (Seriously, fuck this company for giving us TWENTY Orton Vs Barrett Matches)


Get the flunk outta here. Twenty matches and only like one is "pretty good". That's terrible.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just re-watched Punk vs Taker at WrestleMania 29. Holy fucking shit was this great. This is Punk's best performance in the WWE. Punk's mannerisms in the match, taunting Taker and his selling of Taker's comebacks were tremendous. Punk was all sorts of brilliant in this match. The Undertaker was equally tremendous in this match. Paul Heyman was also awesome at ringside with his mannerisms with the urn during the match. A phenomenal bout between the two that unarguably stole the show at WrestleMania. I think it's save to say that this match is in Taker's top 5 WrestleMania bouts. Awesome match. Definitely better than the last viewing of this match.

Rating: ★★★★3/4.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I swear every time I hear someone talk about The Rock vs Punk negatively, I wanna cry from laughing. :lol The way the hate for the match-up is expressed so intensely... :lmao



The Beast Incarnate said:


> FACT: Orton has has more televised/PPV matches against Wade Barrett than anybody else in his career.
> 
> 20 Vs Barrett
> 16 Vs HHH
> ...


Okay, I give up even though I expected them to be _more_.



Gamblor said:


> Also, have there been any two men matched up on TV as much as Orton/Barrett?


Kofi and Ziggler always find each other when they run out of things to do so they probably have the Orton/Barrett combo beat.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Their duo of 2010 PPV main events are some of the worst pieces of shit I've ever seen in all honesty. Perhaps the dullest main event matches I have ever seen in this era outside of the obvious Punk-Rock, which was just an orgy of shit.


It's funny because those two matches of theirs, which were the highest profile ones, happened to be easily the worst in their series of matches. I mean, they have a few above average/good ones in there in the latter part of 2011/early 2012. And I don't think the late 2012-early 2013 ones are _bad_... they've just been so overdone they're far from good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

kofi and ziggler have tied up over 1000 times including house,ppv,tv


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, maybe Kofi/Ziggler. Anyone have the number of times they've locked up on TV?



> I swear every time I hear someone talk about The Rock vs Punk negatively, I wanna cry from laughing. The way the hate for the match-up is expressed so intensely...


I'm with ya on that.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Sheamus-Orton HIAC is quite good. Bold Orton looks like an oval-headed alien. :lol


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Sheamus-Orton HIAC is quite good. Bold Orton looks like an oval-headed alien. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> Yeah, maybe Kofi/Ziggler. Anyone have the number of times they've locked up on TV?


Looked it up on profightdb and found at least 21 singles matches on TV.



Fluze said:


> Sheamus-Orton HIAC is quite good. Bold Orton looks like an oval-headed alien. :lol


Yeah, their best one together. And seems like I'm not the only one who makes the alien comparison to bald Orton.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

That's irrelevant said:


>


Yep, that's the one. Errr, fucking creeps me out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Orton HIAC owns.

lets ignore your favorite spot in the match, KOK...


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Didn't Orton attempt an Undertaker-like eye rollback once? I could of sworn, i saw something of the similar.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sheamus-Orton in the cell, EW.

I despise the Orton 'Bald' look with a burning fucking passion. Makes him look fucking retarded.

& Dolph-Kofi has happened 25 times combining TV & PPV. SICKENING.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Undie-Austin has gotta be up there, for most matches ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of those happened twenty plus times, but Ultimo Dragon vs Bobby Eaton only happened twice.

I hate everything.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Cena-Edge TLC makes me want to puke, extremely high in plodding & dull sense for such a "hate filled" feud, and the spots, well, there about as revealing as you get, and also unoriginal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

New topic. Discuss.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Austin... hm...

1997 Cold Day in Hell (think that was the name of the PPV)
1998 SS
1998 Buried Alive
1999 Over the Edge
1999 Raw or two after Over the Edge
1999 Raw after KOTR
1999 Fully Loaded
2001 JD
2002 BL

I'm sure I'm missing some, but that is quite a bit.

Ooo, how bout Rock/HHH?:

1997 Rock's IC Title win
1998 pre Summerslam (?)
1998 SS
1999 Over the Edge (?)
1999 FL
1999 Cage
2000 BL
2000 JD

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> New topic. Discuss.


Aside from Regal's obvious brilliance, isn't that Jericho's old Even Flow theme playing at the Viper Room?


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWE Smackdown 08/01/2002

*Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri*
This match was great; I loved Rey being aggressive before the match even starts. As Tajiri is coming down the ramp Rey hits him with a baseball slides on Tajiri a moonsaults from the second rope. Back in the Rey hits him with this sweet headscissors off a springboard. AWESOME! From that they do some counter moves until Tajiri hits him with a beautiful superkick and takes over with a mixture of kicks, power-moves and just stretching him out. Man these two are awesome together. At one point in the match Rey goes to springboard off but Tajiri delivers the great kick sending him to the outside. Then later on Tajiri kills him with a sitdown powerbomb which only gets a two count. Rey wins after a top rope hurancanrana. ***1/4

*Mark Henry vs. Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman)*
Mark got more offense in than i expected and BROCK's selling of it was great, I like that match was kept short and both men were trading big moves instead of boring rest holds. I did pop for Mark telling BROCK to run the ropes and he looked like he was going to but gave him a clothesline instead. Later in the match Mark gave him a delayed vertical suplex, i think he had him in the air for at least 8 seconds. The match ends with BROCK GIVING HIM A FUCKIN' BELLY-TO-BELLY SUPLEX THEN ENDS IT WITH THE F-5 right after AWESOME! **1/4

*Edge and The Rock vs. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit *
13 minutes of straight up AWESOMENESS! All 4 guys were smooth on offense and amazing with bumping/sell for the other team when needed. Benoit and Eddie was straight up "Ruthless" here their punches, forearms and suplexes everything had a purpose and nothing was wasted. For the first 1/3 of the match it was Benoit and Eddie just pounding away on Rock and Rock, selling but would have mini-flurries of attacks to ensure they don't lose the crowd which was AWESOME! But eventually he would get the how tag in to Edge and that ruled as he was just all over the place with spears, flying forearms and even hit a monkey flip on Eddie but that didn't last long as Eddie and Benoit regained control and started even longer and more brutal heat segment on him, working the mid-section and lower back. They didn't do double team moves but instead they would use cheap heel tactics which might have been better. I should also add some of the cut-offs spots for the hot tag were phenomenal and it was AWESOME! seeing the crowd get their hopes up that much just for Benoit or Eddie to be like fuck it not yet, so buy the time the hot tag did happen it could of been the biggest JOBBER in the word the crowd would of popped for their shit, but luckily it was Rock getting the hot tag and it was so energetic and great, especially with Benoit and Eddie bumping for him. The match ends when Rock is about to give Benoit the Rock Bottom, but Brock walks down to the ring and Benoit catches him in the Crossface out of nowhere as Brock watches on. Rock tries his best to not tap and eyeball Brock at the same time but has no choice to tap. ****1/4


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

You can never go wrong with a Mysterio-Tajiri gem. :agree:

And I liked the tag team match between Edge and Rock vs Eddie and Benoit. Rock tapping out to the Crossface was also a great finish to the match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's irrelevant said:


> You can never go wrong with a Mysterio-Tajiri gem. :agree:
> 
> And I liked the tag team match between Edge and Rock vs Eddie and Benoit. Rock tapping out to the Crossface was also a great finish to the match.


 Indeed. Benoit and Rock also had another decent match the week after the tag team match. They managed to do the same spot with Lesnar coming out and distracting the Rock but this time, Benoit fails to submit the Rock.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

With all the recent Tajiri love going around, I think it's imperative I ask whether any of you guys managed to catch the Tajiri/Finlay classic from a SMASH show last year. So, yeah? No? If not, do so now!

___________________
Sheamus/Cesaro from this week's Main Event deserves more praise than the two semi-warm posts its had in this thread. It's _really, really good_. 

I'm usually not as high on Sheamus as most but both men were fantastic with Sheamus making Cesaro's offence look potent, while Cesaro bumped well for Sheamus. Cesaro was relentless in his attempts to lock in the chicken-wing on Sheamus' injured shoulder (thanks to a nasty ringpost bump), and managed to counter every signature attempt by Sheamus in this process. That is, though, until The Celtic warrior went for a play out of the norm by reversing, at haste, to drop Cesaro onto the turnbuckle from the White Noise position as Cesaro struggled to undo the arms and pick into the chickenwing, again. I, also, actually wanted to buy into Cesaro winning with his Neutralizer if he hadn't gotten slightly cocky in setting it up.

Right now, there are no wrestlers alive that stand out as worker of the year anywhere near ***** Casas or Antonio Cesaro. I'd still give Casas the one-up, but I've yet to see a performance from either man that isn't, at least, good. Five whole months into the year (as well as counting the number of matches they've put on) and that becomes a truly impressive feat. No matter what WWE do with Cesaro, I can't be disappointed in them not using him in good match-ups, at least. I'd love for a Bryan/Cesaro bout, but it looks like NXT may very well deliver a seperate classic in Sami Zayne/Cesaro.

Oh, WWE, you're so awesome.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

SpookshowTony said:


> JBL vs Eddie Guerrero for the WWE Championship Judgement Day (2004) ***1/2


Definitely missing a star, or 67. Incredible match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> With all the recent Tajiri love going around, I think it's imperative I ask whether any of you guys managed to catch the Tajiri/Finlay classic from a SMASH show last year. So, yeah? No? If not, do so now!


x3.

I can go for x4 today.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> JBL vs Eddie Guerrero for the WWE Championship Judgement Day (2004) ***1/2


I'd go about the same or less. Underwhelming match aside from all the blood. I'm going to rewatch it today or tomorrow though since it's been well over a year since my last and only watch of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was a million times over level brilliant WAYYYY before the blood.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Rah said:


> I'd love for a Bryan/Cesaro bout, but it looks like NXT may very well deliver a seperate classic in Sami Zayne/Cesaro.


Coincidentally I pimped out their match from PWG's Kurt Russell Reunion in 2011 a couple hours ago. Check it out if you haven't seen it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did Meltzer really give Kane/Taker (WM14) a *1/2 :shock , reading an article elsewhere and it mentioned this.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

yep


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> yep


Blimey


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh shoot Generico vs Claudio was put on youtube? :hb


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't remember that venue but a Youtube link is as good a prod as any to rewatch such goodness.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Undertaker vs. CM Punk is still a *****1/2+* from me after watching it fifty-something times. Undertaker's third best Wrestlemania match, behind only the two with Michaels.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Believe that's the same venue where they always have the Kurt Russell-Reunion shows for PWG.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just finished some random matches:

Eddie vs JBL - Judgement Day '04: ****. Great match but some of it was meh. JBL not winning after hitting the powerbomb about a minute after he hit the clothesline from hell was overkill. There was no stalling and he went right for the cover...just meh.

Brainbusters vs Rockers - 1/13/89: ***1/2. Standard southern style tag match. Rockers in control for the first 10 or so minutes until the heels finally had one of their cheating tactics turn the tide. Hot tag from Marty to Shawn and the heels cheat to win a couple minutes later.

Bret Hart vs Ric Flair - 10/12/92: ****. Epic for the fact it was Bret's first title victory. Lots of back and forth action after the first 10 minutes being all Bret. Bret picked apart Flair by working his arm to start, then the leg, and finally the back, and after softening that up enough he slapped on the sharpshooter for the victory. Some great selling by both but Flair in particular was the fucking man with his arm and fatigue selling.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

zep81 said:


> Did Meltzer really give Kane/Taker (WM14) a *1/2 :shock , reading an article elsewhere and it mentioned this.


Meltzer's not very high on Undertaker particularly when he's wrestling someone as big as him (with the exception of Batista). None of the Orton matches got more than ***3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whenever I see the phrase "standard Southern Style tag" it usually implies *****, in my book.

Which is the level where I have most Rockers vs Brain Busters tags at.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

QUOTE=bigbuxxx;19375449]Just finished some random matches:

Eddie vs JBL - Judgement Day '04: ****. Great match but some of it was meh. JBL not winning after hitting the powerbomb about a minute after he hit the clothesline from hell was overkill. There was no stalling and he went right for the cover...just meh.

Brainbusters vs Rockers - 1/13/89: ***1/2. Standard southern style tag match. Rockers in control for the first 10 or so minutes until the heels finally had one of their cheating tactics turn the tide. Hot tag from Marty to Shawn and the heels cheat to win a couple minutes later.

*Bret Hart vs Ric Flair - 10/12/92: ****. Epic for the fact it was Bret's first title victory. Lots of back and forth action after the first 10 minutes being all Bret. Bret picked apart Flair by working his arm to start, then the leg, and finally the back, and after softening that up enough he slapped on the sharpshooter for the victory. Some great selling by both but Flair in particular was the fucking man with his arm and fatigue selling.[*/QUOTE]

Always wanted to watch this but stayed away from it after bad reviews. Your actually the first ppl Ive seen rate it high


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Southern tags are sometimes especially cool in 80s WWF, b/c they often had the nonsensical 'heel in peril' tags with the Hart Foundation taking up the entire match and never looking in any trouble. And also, to be quite frank, not being very entertaining at getting the best of their opponent the way RNRs, Fantastics and Rockers would be. They weren't terribly interesting heels, either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sounds like The American Wolves. Which is terrible.

btw why do some in the WWE section think WWE still uses brand splits? Do they not watch the product?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Good lord the American Wolves. Couldn't stomach most of the matches I tried to watch them in.

And I've never understood that either. I'd love the brand split since it would give a little more exposure to guys that deserve it, but its completely gone at this point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't think there is a single match of theirs that I like. Bad enough I just watched another one vs the Briscoes about thirty minutes ago. (N)

I miss it too for the sole fact of having separate shows used to showcase workers. Unusual how some people on this place act as if they're still around though. There are no more brands - everyone works everywhere and vs one another. You just don't have guys like Cena & Punker really appear on the taped shows. That's about it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I miss the brand wars and the special feeling of when wrestlers on different brands interacted with each other in PPV backstage segments. Oh and how could I miss the draft? Loved that. Even though it became predictable towards the end. 

I don't mind the brand extension ending but they should really consider unifying the world titles and making shows like Smackdown relevant and important again. Main Event could be used like Heat or Velocity.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> Meltzer's not very high on Undertaker particularly when he's wrestling someone as big as him (with the exception of Batista). None of the Orton matches got more than ***3/4


I'm assuming he hates the awesomeness that is Taker vs Big Show's Steel Cage match on Smackdown 08. :hmm:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, the brand split being gone is actually a bit of a shame. Now you have a chance to see more than one Wade Barrett or Kofi Kingston (or, if they really want to be sadistic - Wade Barrett v. Kofi Kingston) match televised each week. Meanwhile some of the people who are actually good at something might not be on TV for a while.

Davey Richards having that stupid 'tough guy' look on his face and 'AMERICAN STRONG STYLE' (!!!) written on his tights is the worst thing on planet Earth.


AMERICAN STRONG STYLE!!!!!!!!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

random but Wade Barrett looks like Carl Froch a little :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've heard quite a bit about Davey Richards. Also watched a few short clips and he comes across to me as a Benoit wannabe. Probably nowhere near as good as him. Although I did do a google search the other day and clicked on a link where somebody said he's actually _better_.

--------------------

And this Orton list will take a lot less time than I expected it to. I will skip lots of matches that I know will not make the cut and from an earlier notepad I had saved, there's already 80 or so matches written down that are pretty much guaranteed to make the list.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forget Benoit, Richards probably isn't as good as Trish Stratus.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Forget Benoit, Richards probably isn't as good as Trish Stratus.


He would definitely be capable of putting on a classic with Chuck Taylor or Konnan, though. 8*D

Preferably a triple threat. Or fatal four way with Kofi Kingston.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I would love to see Davey Richards v. Konnan. Davey no-selling would actually mean something because Konan never connects with anything anyway. The finish run would be an utter clusterfuck of CM Punk v. Elijah Burke proportions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbGTRgiYfYA I wonder if they would hit HHH/Steiner levels.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I would love to see Davey Richards v. Konnan. Davey no-selling would actually mean something because Konan never connects with anything anyway. The finish run would be an utter clusterfuck of CM Punk v. Elijah Burke proportions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbGTRgiYfYA I wonder if they would hit HHH/Steiner levels.


:lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao yeah

try watching konnan matches high


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> I may be a flair mark but TO BE THE MAN is a great read and good pick up. I hate reading books in general and usually spark notes school work but I read the entire flair one and it was great. He may come off a little self-centered and douchey but its great nonetheless












It is a -great- book. A great pick-up for any wrestling fan, doesn't matter if you preferred the Golden Era, Attitude, Ruthless Aggression, etc. Good insight on a lot of the old-timers like Gagne, Race, Crockett, etc.

What an asshole Eric Bischoff was, the good stuff. Thoughts scattered about on how he thinks about wrestling today [Main complaint throughout the book seemed to be how short the matches of today were].


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> WWE Smackdown 08/01/2002
> 
> *Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri*
> This match was great; I loved Rey being aggressive before the match even starts. As Tajiri is coming down the ramp Rey hits him with a baseball slides on Tajiri a moonsaults from the second rope. Back in the Rey hits him with this sweet headscissors off a springboard. AWESOME! From that they do some counter moves until Tajiri hits him with a beautiful superkick and takes over with a mixture of kicks, power-moves and just stretching him out. Man these two are awesome together. At one point in the match Rey goes to springboard off but Tajiri delivers the great kick sending him to the outside. Then later on Tajiri kills him with a sitdown powerbomb which only gets a two count. Rey wins after a top rope hurancanrana. ***1/4
> ...


GOOD LORD what an episode that looks like. Never even heard of that tag match...



bigbuxxx said:


> Just finished some random matches:
> 
> Bret Hart vs Ric Flair - 10/12/92: ****. Epic for the fact it was Bret's first title victory. Lots of back and forth action after the first 10 minutes being all Bret. Bret picked apart Flair by working his arm to start, then the leg, and finally the back, and after softening that up enough he slapped on the sharpshooter for the victory. Some great selling by both but Flair in particular was the fucking man with his arm and fatigue selling.


Wasn't too fond of this match when I watched a couple years ago. For two guys that are both all time greats (imo) it seemed to lack any structure or story at all. I remember random Sharpshooter/Figure Four attempts without any prior work or merit to go into them. I don't think either guy speaks too highly of their matches against one other. Believe I gave it ** 3/4 and rated their match from Bret's Dungeon Collection set a little higher (like *** )



Choke2Death said:


> I've heard quite a bit about Davey Richards. Also watched a few short clips and he comes across to me as a Benoit wannabe. Probably nowhere near as good as him. Although I did do a google search the other day and clicked on a link where somebody said he's actually _better_.


:lmao

Davey Richards... the fuck happened to that guy?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He thought AMERICAN STRONG STYLE was the way to go.


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

@Jack Evans

The Flair/Hart match probably didn't work since Flair never respected Bret as a champion.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Wasn't too fond of this match when I watched a couple years ago. For two guys that are both all time greats (imo) it seemed to lack any structure or story at all. *I remember random Sharpshooter/Figure Four attempts without any prior work or merit to go into them. *I don't think either guy speaks too highly of their matches against one other. Believe I gave it ** 3/4 and rated their match from Bret's Dungeon Collection set a little higher (like *** )


Definitely disagree with that. Flair was working on Bret's leg before he put on the figure four and before the one that he failed to put on. Bret was working on Flair's leg before he put on the figure four. Bret had worked on Flair's leg and was working on Flair's back when he put on the sharpshooter. Those 4 were the only times they did the moves and they were all logical.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember being bored to tears with Flair vs Hart, tbhayley.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:datass :mark: :datass


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Random Reviews p)



Spoiler: Lex Luger vs. Ricky Steamboat (GAB 1998)



Fantastic reception for both men, creating an epic atmosphere to start things off. Steamboat and the audience want this to be No DQ, as The Dragon is out for revenge after Luger turned on him. The stipulation is announced, but Luger grabs a mic and tells Steamboat it's either a normal match or he walks. Steamboat begrudgingly accepts much to the displeasure of the crowd, but they really needed something to turn the fans on Luger as he was getting big pops from the smarky audience (Something Ross calls out as “somewhat hypocritical” on their part). Luger is doing the best work in his career at this time, and getting great opponents like Steamboat to work with just solidifies his heel run. Steamboat himself brings an uncharacteristic viciousness into this match, throwing some powerful chops that send Luger running to the outside, only to be met with even more ferocious chops once he gets there.

Some great agility from both men and near-falls right from the get go, setting an electric pace that stays consistent throughout. The finish is awesome – Luger brings in a chair to get intentionally DQed, only to be slingshot into the corner and take it right in the face. However Steamboat is so mad he grabs the chair and starts wailing on Luger himself for the DQ. Ricky throws the ref from the ring and keeps attacking Luger who begs him to stop, but The Dragon just keeps pummelling him, first to the outside then back up the ramp to the stage. Luger just manages to escape, while Steamboat celebrates his retribution with the chair. Just brilliant. Unfortunately, Steamboat and the NWA had a contract dispute, leading to his departure from American wrestling for a couple of years soon after this awesome, awesome contest, the Match of the Night on a very good card.

****1/2​





Spoiler: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz (TLC 2011)



One of the greatest strengths of the WWE is that whatever the show, they often save the best for last. Finishing a PPV with the Match of the Night is always a benefit and one again they do it here. This one was very similar to Hell in a Cell from October in set-up, with an awkward triple-threat dynamic rather than a more focused one-on-one affair. As with that show my expectations were low, so this Match of the Year candidate was a really welcome surprise. The best aspect of the match was how it took an obvious result and made you genuinely believe it wasn't going to happen. The tension around Punk's certain victory and the wild card of two challengers made this the biggest nail biter since Money in the Bank. 

Alberto Del Rio's aggression was thrilling to watch tonight as he dominated much of the proceedings and looked set to win it with ease. His weapon-enhanced Cross Arm Breakers to both Miz and Punk were fantastic, as was the corner spot they were all involved in. I felt for sure everyone involved was done for at one point, only to watch them all come back and make me sure all of them would win it. The heart and soul of this was the use of handcuffs on Punk, perfectly spun into a dramatic story that changed and evolved as the match went on. His reactions sold all of this and you really felt his despair once he was locked into the turn-buckle with no obvious way out. Even The Miz was at his best, working in some crisp counters and taking some extremely stiff looking chair shots throughout. All in all, one hell of a way to close the show.

****1/4​





Spoiler: Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk ("I Quit" match)



This feud was so hot, it ought to have finished at Starrcade over the World Heavyweight Championship. Instead it is the saving grace of an otherwise bad show, a recognised classic and one of the first main-event 'I Quit' matches in mainstream wrestling. Funk's heel character was so good he even got over The Nature Boy as a face, when only a year ago he was perhaps the most hated heel in the industry. Flair meanwhile has had an amazing year and only adds to it at this event.

This match is more brawl than it is wrestling, a real contrast to the Flair/Steamboat saga earlier in the year. As a brawl though, it's as good as you'll see, especially for the era in which it occurred. It turns out tonight they were wrestling on an hockey rink all along, so that's ICE under the mat, not concrete. I'm not sure that makes much of a difference, but the way Jim Ross puts it, I'll believe it's devastating. This match doesn't start with the same level of violence as their last encounter at the Bash, but the stipulation makes for greater drama and suspense. I only wish the belt was on the line, I just can't see why you'd book Flair to retire as champion, so for me it spoils the outcome. Still, you've got to love how Funk taunts Flair on the mic, especially the sequence where he attacks his neck and sets him up for the pile-driver.

I wish the match had gone about five more minutes. I think Funk ought to have got the spinning toe hold in just once, given how they'd built it up on commentary as his signature submission maneuver. Also I'd have liked a moment where I thought Flair might loose it near the finish, only to win it back. Instead the ending becomes sort of a squash, and while Funk sells the figure four like a true champion (“My leg! My leg – it's breaking!”), I just didn't want to see it end there.

We all know Terry Funk doesn't retire – and I mean ever – but at the time this was fairly legit. After this match he was done in WCW for years, working only in Japan and then in a little known federation called ECW. When you take that into account, it's a bit rubbish that this final moment for Funk's career is brushed aside to remind the audience about Starrcade. Muta and Luger run down and attack both men until Sting makes the save. Just like Pillman, Funk just rolls away while the big stars take centre stage, and everyone just forgets he was there. Funk has had an awesome year in WCW, and while I'm glad he didn't outstay his welcome I think he deserved a more focused, potent send-off. The match itself is fantastic, but I can't give it five stars for such a messy finish post-bell and the lack of a Funk come-back near the end.

***** (Tied with Magnum-Tully as the best match of the stipulation)​


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I recommend everyone to give a watch to Charlie Haas vs John Morrison from Smackdown 11/9/09. Some really good arm-work in this match. Their match on Smackdown 5/8/09 is another good gem. ★★★1/2 for both matches. They also have a decent match on WWE Superstars 7/2/09 which is around a ★★★.

Off to give Punk & Morrison vs Haas & Benjamin from Smackdown 5/15/09 a watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm home from a loooooning but eventful night anyways I'm kinda faded right now is Bret/flair worth a watch ?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Haas/Morrison? Sounds like something I'd enjoy the shit out of. 

I still haven't caught Benjamin/Morrison from JD '09 yet but I'm under the assumption that I'd enjoy it. And Punk/Morrison vs Haas/Benjamin sounds sick.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember really, really digging the Punk/Morrison vs WGTT match. WGTT got TIME once they reformed for a few months on Smackdown in Spring of '09. Not to mention Punk grew into his own that year + Morrison was unfrigginstoppable.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nothing saddened me more than when WGTT reformed in '06 and got no time. They got time that one month in '07 before ONS but other than that it was a dud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's RAW for ya. One minute matches weekly and that's about it. Shelton got time when he was WITHOUT Haas. Made you wonder what in the heck it was even for.

Bless 2009 Smackdown. Actually did something.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bless Smackdown '09 in general, haha. Everyone seemed to be on the same wavelength in the ring. The chemistry was awesome.

And then god knows what was happening on Raw. ~___~


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hornswoggle vs Chavo & Guest Hosts ruined the year for all.

I KNOW there are some redeeming qualities from it in '09. It just takes the time to have to find/remember which they are.  _(iirc I think Big Show gave Triple H one of his best matches of his final year in the latter portion. BIG SHOW)_


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Will have to check that out. (Y)

They had the really good Orton/Trips LMS and Cena/Trips match from like October.

But the whole Raws themselves...good god. Haven't even seen half of them but I can still make that statement.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're entirely correct. Sole fact one can have a hard time picking out a single match worth checking out for an entire program on the majority of the year speaks all the volumes it needs. Year wasn't good for RAW. It was off in "entertainment" land while the rest were giving out quality & interesting wrestling/angles. Makes you think how one portion (almost MUCH more major too; probably scrap almost) is inferior to all other aspects of the company. How does that happen? 

RAW: crappy non-funny comedy segments and two minute matches + useless DX mumbo-jumbo

Smackdown, ECW, Superstars: Wrestling matches with time & interesting storylines such as CM Punk going heel.

Only really "Bad" thing I can think of from one of the three good shows in '09 was the screwjob angle with Punk & Undertaker. Terrible. Had no conclusive answer for it either. I think that's b/c the thingy with Bret Hart fell though. Regardless, that sucked. At least it had them vs one another to not make it a complete bust.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, it's really surprising. Especially since they just kept on going and going with those celebrity guest hosts even though the segments were generally dreadful and I don't think it was really doing them any good. SOMEONE HAD TO HAVE NOTICED.

Yeah, the Punk/Taker storyline sucked, which was a big disappointment. But we got them in a much better feud with an epic match this year so it's all good.

A fun gem from SD '09 that gets forgotten is the Hardy/Myster vs Edge/Jericho cage match with Punk as ref.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only good things to come from the guest hosts were Orton beating up Freddie Prinze Jr. & Cena chucking Ken Jeong out of the ring which saw his head bounce off the ground in amazingly hilarious fashion.

RAGE IN THE CAGE as it was dubbed. My stars Smackdown was the tops in '09. It was so fresh, so fun, so good. Even when matches like Mysterio vs Jericho or Hardy vs Jericho happened a lot it never got dull. It's on par with their '03 & '06 imo.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

What would yall rate Punk/Taker's HIAC match from 2009?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I thought it was about as solid as you can get in a time limited HIAC match. Taker's leg selling and Punk's offensive were executed well. ***1/4 (overall)


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Would y'all rank Flair-Funk "I Quit" above Flair-Steamboat (Any)?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*NJPW - Brock Lesnar vs. Giant Bernard *

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...iant-bernard_sport?search_algo=2#.UbRjWpy6-1s

Enjoyable match, i liked it maybe ***1/2 at first watch, maybe a tad higher, will watch vs Akebono next...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fluze said:


> Would y'all rank Flair-Funk "I Quit" above Flair-Steamboat (Any)?


I've only watched one Flair/Steamboat match and I would rank it above that I Quit match. The problem for me is that these old school matches are so simple that it's hard for me to get into them. I didn't grow in that era and came into wrestling already exposed to the innovations where matches started being more heavy with action.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

thoughts on the HHH/HBK series? i feel like watching it again


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

CHRISTINA HENDRICKS said:


> thoughts on the HHH/HBK series? i feel like watching it again


Summerslam 2002 - Good, with a hint of contrived spots, but all is forgiven due to it being Shawn's first match back.
Armageddon 2002 - Mediocre, with no structure or flow, felt like one big spot after another, fun though.
RAW 2003 - Great, though the shitty ending strays it away from being "amazing".
Royal Rumble 2004 - Bad, Heavy forcing upon the spectacle of epic, too much emphasis on weapons, chairs specifically.
Bad Blood 2004 - Bad, the lengthy time and spamation of finishers are big negatives upon the match itself.
Taboo Tuesday 2004 - Solid, The leg work Trips acted on, was well done and Shawn's short lived comeback was nothing to sneeze at.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 2002 - ★★★★½ (Classic and the only time the "epicness" truly worked)
Armageddon 2002 - ★★½ (No structure but fun to watch)
Raw 29/12/2003 - ★★★★ (Great, funnily enough when there's no forced "epicness" to work around)
Royal Rumble 2004 - ★★¼ (Really FORCED attempts at an epic battle. They try way too hard and it ruins some of the enjoyment)
Bad Blood 2004 - ★½ (One of the most boring matches ever. Don't think I can stomach this ever again)
Taboo Tuesday 2004 - ★★★ (Decent but not quite my thing)

Their other matches from TTTT 2005 and Raw in early 2006 are nothing special.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

CHRISTINA HENDRICKS said:


> thoughts on the HHH/HBK series? i feel like watching it again


SS02- ****
Armageddon 02- *1/2
Raw December 03- ****
RR04- ***
BB04- ***
TT04- ***1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Definitely disagree with that. Flair was working on Bret's leg before he put on the figure four and before the one that he failed to put on. Bret was working on Flair's leg before he put on the figure four. Bret had worked on Flair's leg and was working on Flair's back when he put on the sharpshooter. Those 4 were the only times they did the moves and they were all logical.


Eh, you're probably right. It's been a couple years since my last viewing anyway, I'll get back to it sometime.



CHRISTINA HENDRICKS said:


> thoughts on the HHH/HBK series? i feel like watching it again


Summerslam is amazing, that's about all I got atm. Haven't seen the others in years bar the HIAC, which isn't all that great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been putting together a 'The Undertaker's Best Matches' list today, mostly the essentials that would go into a 'Best Of', plus a couple used for historical purposes, anyone see any glaring omissions:



Spoiler: Undertaker Match List



* Chosen due to historical reasons

Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 25)
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (IYH: Badd Blood - Hell In A Cell)
Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (No Way Out 2006)
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 26)
Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar (No Mercy 2002 - Hel In A Cell)
Undertaker vs HHH (Wrestlemania 27)
Undertaker vs Edge (Summerslam 2008 - Hell In A Cell)
Undertaker vs The Rock Vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2002)
Undertaker vs Edge (Wrestlemania 24) 
Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania 14) 
Undertaker vs HHH (Wrestlemania 28 - Hell In A Cell)
Undertaker vs Bret Hart (Summerslam 1997)
Undertaker vs Batista (Wrestlemania 23) 
Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Summerslam 2005)
Undertaker vs Batista (Backlash 2007)
Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Armagedden 2005 - Hell In A Cell)
Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy (Raw 2002)
Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Wrestlemania 21) 
Undertaker vs Batista (Survivor Series 2007 - Hell in A Cell)
Undertaker vs Cm Punk (Wrestlemania 29) 
Undertaker vs Big Show (Cyber Sunday 2008)
Undertaker/Kane vs HHH/Steve Austin (Backlash 2001)
Undertaker vs HHH (Wrestlemania 17)
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (Royal Rumble 1998)
Undertaker vs Diesel (Wrestlemania 12)
Undertaker vs Stone Cold (Judgment Day 2001)
Undertaker vs Bret Hart (One Night Only 1997)
Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar - (Unforgiven 2002)
Undertaker vs MVP vs Big Daddy V vs The Great Khali vs Finlay vs Batista (No Way Out 2008 - Elimination Chamber)
Undertaker/Big Show vs Kane/X-Pac (Summerslam 1999)
Undertaker vs 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin (IYH: A Cold Day In Hell)
Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (IYH: Ground Zero 1997)
Undertaker vs Ric Flair (Wrestlemania 18)
Undertaker vs John Cena (Smackdown 24.06.2004)
Undertaker vs John Cena (Vengeance 2003)
Undertaker vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2003)
Undertaker vs Yokozuna (Royal Rumble 1994) *
Undertaker vs Hulk Hogan (Survivor Series 1991) *
The Million $ Team: Ted Dibiase, Rhythm n’ Blues & Undertaker vs The Dream Team: Dusty Rhodes, Koko B. Ware & Hart Foundation (Survivor Series 1990) *
Undertaker vs Jimmy Snuka - (Wrestlemania 7) *
Undertaker vs The Rock (King of The Ring 1999)
Undertaker vs Kane (Unforgiven 1998)
Undertaker vs Finlay (Smackdown 2007)
Undertaker vs Mankind (IYH: Revenge of the Taker 1997)
Undertaker vs 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin (IYH: Fully Loaded)
Undertaker vs The Great Khali (Smackdown 2006)
Undertaker vs Mankind (In Your House 11: Buried Alive)
Undertaker vs Mankind (King Of The Ring 1996)
Undertaker vs Mankind (King Of The Ring 1998 - Hell in A Cell)
Undertaker Vs Vader Vs. Steve Austin Vs. Bret Hart (In Your House 13: The Final Four)
Undertaker Vs Vader (In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede)
Undertaker/Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar/John Cena (Smackdown 2003) 
Undertaker/Batista Vs John Cena/Shawn Michaels (No Way Out 2007)
Undertaker vs Rikishi Vs The Rock Vs Kurt Angle Vs Stone Cold Vs HHH
Undertaker Vs Edge (Backlash 2008)
Undertaker vs Big Show (Smackdown 2008)
Undertaker vs Kane (Smackdown 2008)
Undertaker vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2001)
Undertaker vs Kane (Wrestlemania 20) *
Royal Rumble 2007 win


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

HHH/HBK Summerslam and the RAW 03 match are both fantastic imo. Everything else ranges from not very good to awful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some random ratings in this Orton list I'm working on:

Orton vs Bryan vs Rhodes vs Barrett - SD 25/11/11 - ★★★¼
Orton vs RVD - Raw 12/1/04 - ★★★¾
Orton vs Booker T vs RVD - Raw 9/2/04 - ★★★
Orton vs HBK - Raw 2/1/10 - ★★½
Orton vs Batista vs Sheamus - Raw 26/4/10 - ★★★¼
Orton vs Sheamus - Raw 14/2/11 - ★★
Orton vs Ziggler - SD 28/8/12 - ★★¼

Time for Sheamus match from June 3 2011 where Christian turned heel.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Fluze said:


> Would y'all rank Flair-Funk "I Quit" above Flair-Steamboat (Any)?


I know I'm in the minority with this one but I'd put their GAB match above the "I Quit" match. I'd put both of those above Steamboat vs Flair from Chi-Town Rumble.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...-taker-hbk-wm25-26-cena-punk-mitb-2011-a.html

Get them votes in and share your thoughts.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/HBK 25, easily.

Though with that said, it kinda bothers me that when people say "best PG era match", it's always those mentioned in that thread, without giving stuff like Cena/Lesnar and Rybell No/Shield a lil' love.


----------



## TNPunk (Jun 8, 2013)

Fluze said:


> Would y'all rank Flair-Funk "I Quit" above Flair-Steamboat (Any)?


I liked the Flair-Funk match better. I know its wrestling blasphemy but I just really never got into Steamboat's work. I personally think the guy is over rated. I can definitely say he is a good worker, but he just never stood out to me.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I tried selecting matches that are loved among the majority, so we could have an even handed polling, but to no avail, it looks like nothing matches up to Taker-HBK, even thought Cena-Punk was on par with its status, but sadly the simple minds outside this realm don't understand how good it really was.


----------



## TNPunk (Jun 8, 2013)

Fluze said:


> I tried selecting matches that are loved among the majority, so we could have an even handed polling, but to no avail, it looks like nothing matches up to Taker-HBK, even thought Cena-Punk was on par with its status, but sadly the simple minds outside this realm don't understand how good it really was.


LOL ORRR...maybe having cena in a GOAT match just doesnt make sense


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess it would've been far more debatable if you were to say "Best PG Era match that's NOT Taker/HBK, Cena/Punk or Cena/Lesnar". THAT is a challenge.

I'd say HBK/Jericho NM 2008 would win that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eulonzo said:


> What would yall rate Punk/Taker's HIAC match from 2009?


Solid. I get a kick out of it from who was involved; personal enjoyment. Match didn't get enough time to develop into something too special.

***3/4*



Fluze said:


> Would y'all rank Flair-Funk "I Quit" above Flair-Steamboat (Any)?


Never.



TNPunk said:


> LOL ORRR...maybe having cena in a GOAT match just doesnt make sense


That's sad.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> I guess it would've been far more debatable if you were to say "Best PG Era match that's NOT Taker/HBK, Cena/Punk or Cena/Lesnar". THAT is a challenge.
> 
> I'd say HBK/Jericho NM 2008 would win that.












Now that sounds like a fun challenge. I'm sure there are plenty of hidden gems in 2009-10 that should get a mention.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rey Mysterio in that era could have some guys beat. McIntyre & Masters too.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Didn't _That's Irrelevant _ think the Taker-HBK matches were overrated, but why put them above Cena-Punk?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best matches of the PG Era that aren't "The Big Four" (HBK-Taker X2, Cena-Lesnar, Cena-Punk)? 

I'm barely going to think about this (& they're not really going to be in order), but here are a few:

***** 3/4*

Undertaker Vs HHH (Wrestlemania XXVII)
CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (Over The Limit 2012)

***** 1/2*

CM Punk Vs John Cena (Summerslam 2011)
CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII)
Brock Lesnar Vs HHH (Summerslam 2012)
The Shield Vs Team Hell No (TLC 2012)
CM Punk Vs John Cena (RAW 2/25/13)
CM Punk Vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIX)

NOTE that this isn't a slight to 2009 & 2010 either, as I found that they were completely separate entities from the last few years in the sense that consistency was the name of the game. A bajillion great matches all around the board seemingy every week on every program, yet there weren't many fantastic "BIG" matches. Some people try to point me to Mysterio/Jericho @ The Bash and YES it's awesome but I'm not buying the hype. Same goes with Bryan/Ziggler.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HBK/taker had a better atmosphere. Yeah I know that Cena/Punk was in Chicago and had an amazing crowd, but HBK/Taker faced each other on the grandest stage of them all and put up 2 ****3/4+ matches


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'm eagered to hear Beast's consensus on the Taker-Trips WM27 ****3/4 rating. Not because i dislike the match, but because i am throughly fonded by it, hence my hair-behind ****1/2 rating.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm not a big fan of the Taker/HHH match from WM27. I can't give it more then ****


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh no, another HHH/Taker WM27 discussion incoming.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

It fucking rules.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Rey Mysterio in that era could have some guys beat. McIntyre & Masters too.


Not to mention Big Show in 08 and Christian in 09. :mark: 


Fluze said:


> Didn't _That's Irrelevant _ think the Taker-HBK matches were overrated, but why put them above Cena-Punk?


I never said both matches were overrated. I thought Taker vs Shawn WrestleMania 25 is a tad bit but I still rate it highly. I've also said in numerous occasions that I thought Taker vs Shawn from WrestleMania 26 was better but both matches were a masterpiece to me.

As much as I love the Punk vs Cena series, I can't deny that Taker vs Shawn was better in comparison.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I see no way that Triple H/Lesnar from Summerslam is ****1/2. I have it at **1/2 and it is by far the worst of their three matches.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I apologize for my stubbiness and failure to read, Irrelevant.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

a topic inspired by Obfuscation


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fluze said:


> I apologize for my stubbiness and failure to read, Irrelevant.


It's all good man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A "best match of the PG era not including Undertaker's awesomeness, Cena/Lesnar and Cena/Punk" or something and no mention yet of SWAGGER/CHRISTIAN? FOR SHAME. I need to be more active again. Shit like this shouldn't be happening.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> Not to mention Big Show in 08 and Christian in 09. :mark:


Good call :mark:



bigbuxxx said:


> a topic inspired by Obfuscation


~!

And someone claiming Finlay & Regal are two of the most boring guys ever. Classic.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top matches of the PG era? Well, considering I don't have Cena/Lesnar and Cena/Punk as high as others, I'll just include everything (off the top of my head, since I don't have my list here at work):

(*****)
1) Taker/HBK WM25
(****3/4)
2) Taker/Punk WM29
(****1/2)
3) Punk/Bryan OTL 2012
4) Taker/HBK WM26
5) Taker/Edge SS 08 (pretty sure the PG era started a little before this match)
6) Shield/Hell No and Ryback TLC 2012
(****1/4)
7) Jericho/Mysterio The Bash 2009
8) Punk/Cena MITB 2011
9) Cena/Lesnar ER 2012
10) Shield/Hell No and Kofi (?) from a few weeks ago


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fear The Fury: Brock Lesnar's Top 25 Matches Ever (5-1)


5. Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero (WWE Championship - No Way Out 2004)










(Nothing witty to say here. This ending gives me goosebumps.)

This was the very last match that I watched for my BROCK project and I thought it was fitting; perhaps the second greatest professional wrestler to ever lace up a pair a boots going toe to toe with the greatest monster heel North America has ever seen? Exciting. I really enjoyed Eddie's battle cry at the beginning of the match, baiting Brock in to "get high" with him in the ring, as this match really played off a ton of the personal issues that Eddie had vercome with his last step being to overcome the impossible and take out the beast once and for all. What makes this match so fantastic is that this was during that last three month span in 2004 where Brock seemingly never gave a fuck and turned in the worst performances of his career, so obviously it seemed as if Eddie was putting in extra work here indeed. Brock never lost sight of his performance though, keeping Eddie grounded throughout the bout with his size, only for Eddie to use his sheer will and determination to fight back and take the championship with a little help from Goldberg of all people. Little known factoid; Brock-Goldberg was originally going to be Brock squashing Goldberg until Brock decided he was walking out on the company, which was then changed. I have no idea what it has to do with this match but it's a classic case of an inspiring babyface performance mixed with a devilish heel performance that makes this match so complete. This was Brock's last WWE Championship match and the beginning of one of the most inspirational title reigns ever, what's not to adore?

***** 1/2*


4. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (WWE Championship - Summerslam 2003)










(WHOA KURT. DA FUCK IS THIS?)

The Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle trilogy in 2003 was one of the better series' of matches that the WWE has ever produced on a main event level, with the gold standard in my eyes being the Summerslam encounter. While this may be an unpopular opinion, you have to look at where Brock & Angle were character wise when this match took place; Brock had sold his soul to the devil with a shaky mindset full of doubt that he could defeat the pure Angle once again, while Angle was ready to take out his frustrations on the devilish Lesnar who had spent the last few months slaughtering all the jobbers he could find. The match itself on the surface is what many individuals would call a "technical" masterpiece; wonderful holds being utilized with a wide variety of intensity and amateur holds into the mix as well. However when you look deeper into this, you'll find the character development to be astounding with Brock's confidence in himself slowly deteriorating towards the end of the match and Kurt's resiliency shining though until the end. Brock's selling of the ankle was fantastic and the last F-5 was ridiculously awesome while Kurt stayed true and delivered one of the greatest performances of his entire life here. A top five Angle match ever with the Austin match, Taker matches in 2006 & 2003, & the ironman being there as well. This fucking ruled and it ruled hard as perhaps my number 2 match of 2003 behind one other affair. The match of the year for 2003? We'll get to that in a second...

***** 1/2*


3. Brock Lesnar Vs Chris Benoit (WWE Championship - Smackdown 12/4/2003)










(BROCK LOCK)

Here's a very unpopular choice but I'll stick to it; this is my match of the year for 2003. Not the overrated Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit from Royal Rumble 2003, not Rock Vs Austin, not HBK Vs Jericho, not Brock Vs Kurt for that matter. This match is so fantastic for a few reasons; Brock is at the peak of his fucking delusional heeldom here, actually FEARING Benoit and his submission based offense while Benoit (who has already wrestled a match earlier agains John Cena) was riding a huge wave of momentum that took him into this match and made Brock that much more concerned about keeping his championship. Brock was adamant about making Benoit tap out just as Orton was adamant about pinning Cena at No Way Out back in 2008, and it really shows here as Brock tries his hardest to work over Benoit and make him submit to the raw power of his holds. The storytelling is just oozing out of this one with Brock getting more and more desperate to put Benoit away as the match rolls on with Benoit having one HELL of a comeback towards the end. I'm not going to give the ending away for this one as I believe everybody should see it, but let's just say that it shows us Benoit's resiliency at the same time it shows us Brock's true cowardice when it comes to his insecurities of being the biggest beast in the company. It's my match of the year for 2003 for a reason, and probably the greatest match to ever take place in the month of December for the company.

***** 1/2*


2. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (WWE Championship Hell in a Cell - No Mercy 2002)










(We're gonna need a bigger band-aid)

WAR. That's the first word that comes to my mind when I think about this match and the impact it had on me when I first watched it. You can criticize the selling of Undertaker's hand all you want and talk about the little things as to why some may absolutely fucking hate this (ADRENALINE + PAIN KILLERS ), but I need to stress something here; I really don't care in this one when it comes to a few flaws, this was fucking brutal from start to finish and SCREAMED "blow off match" to me. The way Brock takes Taker to the limit and beats him down within the confines of his own match only for Taker to fight back & make it even. The way Brock takes off the cast and Heyman holds the hand in place while Brock hammers it with a chair to deplete the Undertaker's spirit, fantastic fantastic work and perhaps the final step in putting Lesnar over as "the guy" as you knew he was legit after watching this one. This was a fucking bloodbath, and for Brock to beat Taker clean in the cell meant more than anybody could ever imagine. The ending to this one still gives me chills as it's one of the beat finishing sequences and false finishes you'll ever see. My MOTY for 2002 and I consider it to be one of the greatest matches in company history, bar none.

Gee. I wonder what number one will be.

***** 3/4* 

*......... AND THE NUMBER ONE BROCK LESNAR MATCH OF ALL TIME IS....*

1. Brock Lesnar Vs Hardcore Holly (WWE Championship - Royal Rumble 2004)










(Truly the greatest match of our time)

Everybody knew this was coming when I first said that I was going to do this list, but I'm going to stick to what I believe in and skip the novelties and shock value picks in stating what I believe to perhaps be the greatest match in company history. Brock's performance was astounding here with perhaps the greatest heel control segment to ever take place in a North American match ever, while Holly's babyface performance was...

Wait. This isn't right. Something seems... OH.

*DUD*


*... & THE REAL NUMBER ONE BROCK LESNAR MATCH OF ALL TIME IS..............*


1. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena (Extreme Rules 2012)










(This is what Wrestling means to me.)

Here we are. This is not only the greatest match in both the careers of John Cena & Brock Lesnar, but in my opinion I would also hold this match in the discussion for the greatest match in WWF/WWE company history. You can bash it all you want and at the end of the day I still won't give a fuck, it's the greatest. I've rambled on and on about this match for ages and looked at Cena's performance inside and out, so why not take a look at Brock in this one and why this match is so special? First of all, Brock had been out of professional wrestling for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS at this point. To put that in perspective, HBK was out for four years when he had his match against HHH @ Summerslam 2002 while still being involved with the business in those four years. You ever think that Brock was practicing his in-ring work whike he was UFC Heavyweight Champion? Fuck that noise, to come back and give perhaps the single greatest heel control segment of all time after an eight year absence is fucking astounding and I'll never comprehend how he was ever to do that besides the fact that he's arguably the most talented performer EVER. In short for those who haven't seen the match for some reason; Brock MURDERS Cena for the duration of the match. Right out of the gate Brock implements a ground and pound offense like we haven't seen in the WWE ever, with his stiff as fuck forearms shots busting Cena open from the get go. The refs coming in and stopping the match to clean up the blood did nothing but add to Brock's mystique as he just took the face of the company, busted him wide open, and proceeded to wipe the blood on himself and LAUGH about it. What a devious son of a bitch, he's out there to take out the face of the company and to make the WWE and all of it's superhero like personas his little bitches while Cena must protect everything he stands for against the personification of what he isn't devoid of; passion for the business. It's systematic brute force going up against heart with Brock having Cena beaten only for Brock's arrogance to get the best of him in the end.

It's the greatest professional wrestling match since the original HIAC and who knows... Maybe someday I'll have it as the greatest professional wrestling match in WWF/WWE history.

Thank You Brock.

Thank You.

:brock

*******


*THE ENTIRE LIST*

1. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena (Extreme Rules 2012)
2. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (No Mercy 2002)
3. Brock Lesnar Vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 2003)
4. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2003)
5. Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero (No Way Out 2004)
6. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Summerslam 2012)
7. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2003)
8. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Judgment Day 2003)
9. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (Unforgiven 2002)
10. Brock Lesnar Vs The Rock (Summerslam 2002)
11. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Extreme Rules 2013)
12. Brock Lesnar Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 2003)
13. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Survivor Series 2002)
14. Brock Lesnar Vs Hulk Hogan (Smackdown 2002)
15. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIX)
16. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2003)
17. Brock Lesnar Vs Giant Bernard (NJPW 2006)
18. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
19. Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit Vs Team Angle (No Way Out 2003)
20. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (6/12/2003 Smackdown)
21. Brock Lesnar Vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)
22. Brock Lesnar Vs Manabu Nakanishi (NJPW 2005)
23. Brock Lesnar Vs Ric Flair (RAW 2002)
24. Brock Lesnar Vs Akebono (NJPW 2006)
25. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Royal Rumble 2003)



​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

AWESOME with the Bobcore Holly match swerve. 

Great write up. On all the matches. Took the time and effort to put a lot into a good portion of his work. A good read all around. Have to say I'm in total agreement with number one. I'd choose that too even while I'm not 100% caught up with all of his matches. _(seriously, that Benoit one is a total mystery to me minus the part where he uses/debuts? the Brock Lock.)_ It just means I have to tighten the loose ends and see the remaining matches Brock has to offer. And maybe a squash or two just b/c it's radical.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Superb write up on every match Evan, that was fun as hell to read. Lol at the Hardcore Holly swerve.

:brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fucking superb Brock write up mate, awesome. Adore your love for Brock, i mark very much for him too but love your passion for the guy's work and appreciate the superb reviews, very nice


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:mark: @ The Rep ABH.

I've made my way through both Cena's and Brock's entire match catalogs this year. 

Depressing that I have no idea what to do next. WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT!

EDIT:

BOBCORE! BOBCORE! BOBCORE! BOBCORE!

EVERYBODY SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM THEIR 2004 SMACKDOWN MATCH TOO!

The 2002 Smackdown squash is great, mainly because Bobcore gets NO offense.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Awesome write-up. Brock/Benoit and Brock/Eddie <3

EDIT: Do a top 50 HAITCH list maybe?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Top 100 HAITCH matches.

GOD DAMN.

:HHH2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought you were going to say the squash is great b/c Brock breaks somebodies neck. 8*D


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

Maybe I can put HHH on hold.

BEAT EM UP BEAT EM UP :henry1

BREAK HIS NECK BREAK HIS NECK :henry1


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........
> 
> Maybe I can put HHH on hold.
> 
> ...












I approve of this. Too bad you'll have to suffer through his 1998 matches though.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Best match of the PG era besides Taker/HBK 25 and Cena/Punk MITB is Cena/Punk Summerslam imo. I even debate myself over whether or not I'd have it over MITB.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........
> 
> Maybe I can put HHH on hold.
> 
> ...


MIIIIZAAAAAAARK!

Is Cena vs Finlay from SD 06 any good? It sounds great on paper. (plus made me feel better after hearing in the same show that Boogeyman vs The Miz will happen at Armageddon)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena Vs Finlay is great.

Cena had a knack for working stiff in his earlier days and he seems to bring back that style in this one. Finlay kicks the crap out of Cena during the control segment while Cena has a really satisfying comeback, if you're looking for a star rating then I gave it **** 1/2* and it earned a spot on my Cena list. Would have loved to see a mini Cena-Finlay feud in 2007, shame we never got it .

Watching Henry-Lawler now .

OH GOD. ATTITUDE ERA HENRY.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

read some of the last few pages, best matches of pg outside (hbk/taker, cena/lesnar, punk,cena)

hhh/taker wm 28 *****
hhh/taker wm 27 ****1/2
punk/taker wm 29 ****1/2
Orton/christian otl ****1/2
6 man tag tlc 12 ****1/2
rey/Jericho bash ****1/2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just caught myself up on the Brock list. Fun project I'll bet. THAT SWERVE AT THE END THOUGH. Bobcore Holly the GOAT. 

Top 100 Triple H matches would be quite an undertaking. I may try to crank out some rankings for a top 25 Game list. I'm still a jobber as far as rankings go, but it would be fun.

I'd actually be interested to do (or see) a top 15-20-25 Orton match list.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mark Henry's 2002: TRYING TO BREAK WORLD RECORDS.

I can't name a single match he had.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

no love for Orton/Christan otl ? dont see it on anybody list beside mine. Imo punk/cena mitb is better than hbk/taker 25


----------



## Punkamaniac (Mar 26, 2013)

Watched Trish/Lita for the Women's Title, main event match on Raw. Awesome in my opinion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It would take the better part of a year to do a HHH list, that's why I can't do it right now. It's one of those slow burning things that would take a TON of time. Over 700 televised matches with alot of them being heavy in length. 

Blowing through MIZARK matches though. WAR OF ATTRITION UP NEXT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I'd take Punker vs Cena over Undertaker vs Michaels x2. It isn't like the margins are far between or something though.

I wonder how I would have reacted if I saw Punk vs Cena live. The other two I was heavily emotionally involved in. Probably more than any matches I've ever seen in my life, tbhayley. I know for a fact I've never went as absurdly nuts like I did while watching the WM 25 match. Not counting reacting to something I was in attendance for. _(Generico moments aplenty)_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finlay vs Cena was pretty good. ★★★½ sounds about right for it. I lose it every time Michael Cole goes "THERE'S THAT LITTLE BASTARD" when Hornswoggle shows up.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> read some of the last few pages, best matches of pg outside (hbk/taker, cena/lesnar, punk,cena)
> 
> hhh/taker wm 28 ** (seriously not even a decent match, total garbage)
> hhh/taker wm 27 *** (above average match, nothing special, drags)
> ...


my ratings


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Yeah, I'd take Punker vs Cena over Undertaker vs Michaels x2. It isn't like the margins are far between or something though.
> 
> I wonder how I would have reacted if I saw Punk vs Cena live. The other two I was heavily emotionally involved in. Probably more than any matches I've ever seen in my life, tbhayley. I know for a fact I've never went as absurdly nuts like I did while watching the WM 25 match. Not counting reacting to something I was in attendance for. _(Generico moments aplenty)_


you probably would of went nuts. I just got back into the product at that time after a hiatus of 5 years and just thought it was the greatest thing Ive ever seen

After watching smackdown I hate to admit, I still like Orton for some reason, I have no clue why. Idk about his top 100 but his top 3 would be

1)vs Christan otl
2) foley BL 04
3) christian ss 11


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> After watching smackdown I hate to admit, I still like Orton for some reason, I have no clue why. Idk about his top 100 but his top 3 would be
> 
> 1)vs Christan otl
> 2) foley BL 04
> 3) christian ss 11


You will know about his top 100 pretty soon. 

Other than maybe #3, the first two definitely belong in his top ten. #2 being his #1 IMO.

Now about to form my opinion on the Backlash 09 six man tag.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh lord I know I would have. I went nuts hearing about the match via texts from a buddy who was watching. Got the DVD asap just for the match - worth it. 100%.

Everything about it still gives me goosebumps.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Since we're on our way to Payback:

Punk/Jericho rankings:

King of the Ring: ***
Cage: ***1/4
WM 28: ****1/2
ER 2012: ****1/2
Raw 2013: ***3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Missing Punk vs Jericho from '08 x3(or 4) & all of their '09 matches. :hayley2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@Cody still do to brother

@ATF 

wm 28 *** 3/4
ex 12 ****
raw feb ***1/2

Edit: havent seen the 08-09 ones in forever


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I only did the major ones unk3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 25 HHH matches? Lol, just did a list of non-gimmick matches in that thread a little while ago. Think I've done a top 25 game matches recently, but on my list of 300+ matches, here's the non-gimmick one-on-one matches in order:

(****1/4)
1) vs. Rock BL 00
(****)
2) vs. Jeff Hardy NM 08
3) vs. HBK Raw December 03
(***3/4)
4) vs. Eugene SS 04
5) vs. Cena Raw October 2009
6) vs. Taker WM17 
7) vs. Cena NOC 08
(***1/2)
8) vs. Benoit NM 00
9) vs. Benoit Vengeance 04 
10) vs. Angle RR 01
11) vs. Benoit Raw 3/14/05
12) vs. Jeff Hardy Armageddon 2007
13) vs. Booker T WM19
14) vs. Jericho Raw 6/12/2000
(***1/4)
15) vs. Benjamin Raw 2004 (first match)
16) vs. Big Show NYR 06

That's what I got (so far).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched flair/bret 

- It is by far the most DISAPPOINTING MATCH EVER IMO
- its SO boring and there is no structure
- it just feels like moves after move but nothing else
- this should have been a *********** star match but is barely ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If Summerslam 2012 counts, there's Hunter's best non gimmick match for you.

IF NOT? HERE'S A FUCKING TOP 10 OFF THE TOP OF MY FUCKING HEAD FOR YOU!

***** 1/4*

1. Vs Jeff Hardy (No Mercy 2008)
2. Vs John Cena (Wrestlemania XXII)
3. Vs The Rock (Backlash 2000)

******

4. Vs Chris Benoit (No Mercy 2000)
5. Vs Shawn Michaels (RAW 2003)
6. Vs Eugene (Summerslam 2004)
7. Vs Chris Benoit (RAW 5/2/2005)
8. Vs John Cena (Night of Champions 2008)
9. Vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania X-7)
10. Vs John Cena (RAW 2009)

If I did a Top 10 Triple H Matches Ever & the Brock match counted as a gimmick match? Literally all 10 of them would be gimmick matches.

As you can see with the quality HHH has bumped out over the years, he's not as reliant as say EDGE when it comes to being gimmicky and shit, but yeah.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Triple H seems to reliant and desperate for gimmicks to make his "big" matches important.

WM 28 = right, I'm gonna be facing the Undertaker, in a HIAC match, with Shawn as the referee, were gonna break the record of finisher kick outs, and its going to be marketed as the end of everything ever match

WM 29 = right, I'm gonna book myself against one of the biggest mainstream stars on the show in a match no one wants to see, it's gonna be a street fight as well, also Shawn Michaels is gonna be in my corner for no reason, oh and if I lose I RETIRE!

I WILL NOT BE OVERSHADOWED!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trips vs Eugene > Trips vs Cena WM 22.

(Y)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just started jotting down Game matches to watch for a top 50 :mark:

I've never undertaken a project like this, but it could be fun. Checking out a complete list of his matches now.

Edit: Holy shit. Triple H and the New Age Outlaws faced the Shield in a dark match after a Smackdown taping in late April. I think I remember reading a report about post-taping happenings, but didn't know they have a match. 

What I would've given to have seen it, even though apparently the Shield lost via pinfall.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That's a good list Evan, I'm actually having trouble thinking of any more non-gimmick HHH matches that would crack a top 10. vs RVD Unforgiven 2002 maybe?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Triple H seems to reliant and desperate for gimmicks to make his "big" matches important.
> 
> WM 28 = right, I'm gonna be facing the Undertaker, in a HIAC match, with Shawn as the referee, were gonna break the record of finisher kick outs, and its going to be marketed as the end of everything ever match
> 
> ...


Considering your username contains the word 'Cynical', this is accurate IMHO too, that must be it. We all have to remember Trips at the end of the day, its all about the fucking game :argh:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The only year I can remember that Trips gave ZERO FUCKS about his spot was in 2010.

In all honesty I think I'd have Triple H Vs Eugene higher if I watched it again, Triple H's performance in that match was one of the most superb heel performances I've ever seen + it was the very first Triple H match I ever watched when I was starting to become a serious wrestling fan. I watched on and off as a little kid (the first match I ever remember seeing was the Steve Austin Vs Undertaker match from Rock Bottom ... BURIED... ALIVE), but Triple H and Evolution were the reasons that I stuck to being a fan for good. Fucking fantastic performance in a fantastic match and I need to watch that match very very soon as I think it would go up HUGE.

THANKS ABH :mark:. If you were going to add anything else, it would probably be the Wrestlemania XIX match against Booker as well as the New Year's Revolution match against Big Show which was a Triple H performance piece coupled with exceptional selling by the Big Show.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh fuck, totally forgot the Big Show match at NYR. That would definitely be in there for me, great match. Held up really well when I reviewed it not too long ago. Haven't watched the Booker match in years tbh, can't actually recall much from it apart from the Houston/Harlem hangover spot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IT MADE MY TOP 50 WRASSLEMANIA MATCHEZ LIST.

Jesus CHRIST I've done a ton of lists.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm impressed by your capacity for these big ass lists. I did my HHH/Benoit project which was tiny by comparison and that took a lot out of me lol. Would want to do another one with more matches to watch, but would write less for each review.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

When I actually get a job for the summer I probably won't be watching as much wrestling :lol.

I don't even understand how I'm able to do as much as I do on a daily basis and STILL watch this much wrestling, blows my fucking mind.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I found hunters best non-gimmick match, Yeah1993 its the one you posted in the HHH thread a couple days ago raw 13 06 agaisnt show to be exact. HOLY SHIT THIS is good stuff damn


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I'm impressed by your capacity for these big ass lists


same. i get into big watchathons and i just can't do it. i recently watched all of Kobashi's title defenses (15 matches) from NOAH in 03-05 within a week and i'm shocked i got through all of that but Kobashi is the fucking man. i not only watched them but went back and watched some again because they were so good. i got like 7-12 matches into Bryan Danielson's ROH title reign and got distracted by god knows what and haven't revisited it but i will some day.



> When I actually get a job for the summer I probably won't be watching as much wrestling


I don't have a job (injured reserve atm) but have a kid that's out of school for the summer so my watching has diminished quite a bit recently and will until mid-august and then maybe start something big and actually finish it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Doing huge lists can be a bit of a pain. I did Orton vs Cena series and I almost wanted to give up near the end. I'm now doing top 100 Orton matches and even then I'm cheating by ignoring a bunch of matches. (specifically, I'll just stick to my previous rating for the Iron Man match with Cena. No way am I watching it again any time soon!)

The only other list I did is top 50 for 2005 and that was only because I had just finished watching the entire year. 2006 is also almost over!


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

You know, people really like to laugh around here about Bret Hart's comments on Triple H about him not being a great wrestler that hasn't had a great match. But the more I think about it, there could be some truth there. At least if you look at it from Bret's old school perspective. A guy like Bret never really relied on stipulations/gimmicks to enhance his matches. He simply went out there, wrestled and put on a good show. Every big match Triple H has ever competed in involves some kind of gimmick. All of his memorable matches, his "great" matches are all gimmicked. So in a way, I think Bret may be on to something.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah but gimmick matches is still part of wrestling. It's not a bad thing. Having over 10 **** non-gimmick matches (based on KOK list) is still impressive IMO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I stated my opinion in the hhh matches thread a couple of days ago, I apologize for saying this but hunter imo is one of the most overrated superstars ever. I stated that all of his best matches except for the foley/hardy matches, not only are mostly gimmick, there is always a better worker involved. Honestly imo I think foley's psychology and storytelling in their matches are what makes them great. The gimmick debate doesnt even bother me because it really is irrelevant if you enjoy the match


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^Look forward to seeing the Orton list. How far exactly are you into it? 

Good God. Triple H has had 732 televised matches, with 155 on PPV. This make take a few years.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

It's a fair point (sort of), but just because HHH excels in gimmick matches shouldn't be a bad thing. It still takes skill to excel in gimmick matches, so it shouldn't be looked down upon. Hey, if Bret had competed in a lot he might have been awful in them (probably not though). Certain wrestlers perform better in different environments. I can see what Bret is saying though, HHH isn't going to have a mat wrestling classic (or many of them).


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I wasn't knocking HHH in the slightest. I think he's great, but I was just defending Bret because he gets a lot of unfair criticism around here for his comments.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Any top 10 list of Triple H matches need to include this:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Fandango said:


> I wasn't knocking HHH in the slightest. I think he's great, but I was just defending Bret because he gets a lot of unfair criticism around here for his comments.


Yeah that's cool, I think most people just go on about it as a joke anyway. I doubt anyone actually thinks HHH hasn't had one single great match.



Forever Unchained said:


> Any top 10 Triple H matches need to include this:


I agree, but I assumed we were only discussing singles non-gimmick matches. Obviously that match is superb though.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> Since we're on our way to Payback:
> 
> Punk/Jericho rankings:
> 
> ...




KOTR: ***1/4
Cage: ***
WM 28: ****1/4
ER 12: ****
Raw 2013: ***3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> ^^^Look forward to seeing the Orton list. How far exactly are you into it?


Already got over 100 matches that are ★★★+. Now I'm just checking out stuff that I haven't seen before to be sure that I wont miss out on any gems that deserve a spot. Mainly clearing his 2008 atm.

In the middle of it, I just got done with a tag match where Orton is with JBL against Cena and HHH. And believe it or not, _Cena was pinned clean!_

Also discovered a very good 5 minute match with Regal in England. Damn, that overhead suplex Regal gave Orton was NASTY. Landed right on his head.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

^No surprise. 2008 was Cena's weakest year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H is clearly overrated by the WWE masses. Doesn't mean he hasn't been in some good/great matches. Its just the Vince McMahon driven mentality of "he's one of the greats" where you draw the line. Couldn't be further from the truth.

I need to watch something to talk about something that matters to me. idk, something with Bobby Eaton.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

My take on HHH is that his face work doesn't get over enough. He's just too good as a heel. Only time HHH was really over as a face was his return in 02. Maybe a little bit in 98 as well. But even by wrestlemania people stopped caring for HHH. 

Id still like to see him perform matches, what can it hurt? IMO he just needs to become the new cooperate heel. Like the new Vince McMahon. We all HHH would get the job done given that role. GOAT heel


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH will definitely become CORPORATE GAME at some point, no doubt about it. I hopes it's still a few years away after he's retired and been off TV for a while. Then he can come back as the head of the new corporation when everyone is expecting Vince. Will be awesome. How about Cena as the top heel in the stable? :cena5


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Would love it. Hell id be down for a two man heel powertrip. Heel HHH and cena!


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

If Cena goes heel it needs to happen at next years Mania when he faces the Undertaker and recruits the Shield to effectively end the streak and his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're fantasy booking today?

Sami Zayn is the new face of the WWE. It'll work.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

CHRISTINA HENDRICKS said:


> thoughts on the HHH/HBK series? i feel like watching it again


late maybe but W/E

Raw in 1996 (the date slips my mind) - People need to watch this. It's really fun and there's honest argument it's their best match together.
Raw 12/25/97 - Five star classic. No one can dispute that.
SummerSlam 02 - I still think this is good, but not excellent or great. Michaels comeback bothers me less than most, which is weird because I'm as critical as anyone about no-selly comebacks.
Armageddon 02 - Donkey shit.
Raw 12/27/03 - Maybe little better than SummerSlam 02; good, but not great. Wouldn't be my Raw MOTY for 03 any more (it was for...like....ever), but I don't dislike it.
Rumble 04 - Donkey shit.
Bad Blood 04 - Donkey shit.
Taboo Tuesday 04 - One of the better ones. Michaels has a hurt leg and Trip uses what he can to damage it, so they don't waste time with as much awful punching and tiresome spots they usually did.
Tribute to the Troops 05 - 'Donkey shit' is too nice for this.
Raw 3/06 - People should watch this one, too. It's perfectly good and I probably like it more than any match they've had on PPV.



redskins25 said:


> I think I found hunters best non-gimmick match, Yeah1993 its the one you posted in the HHH thread a couple days ago raw 13 06 agaisnt show to be exact. HOLY SHIT THIS is good stuff damn


Yeah, it's really good. Gimmicks or not, I think it's maybe the best match HHH ever had on TV, as well. I need to watch them Benoit matches again sometime, though.



Choke2Death said:


> Also discovered a very good 5 minute match with Regal in England. Damn, that overhead suplex Regal gave Orton was NASTY. Landed right on his head.


4/14/08? That one rules. Regal was on fire in 2008 and I didn't even realise it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> 4/14/08? That one rules. Regal was on fire in 2008 and I didn't even realise it.


Yep. I saw it on the list of matches and got a feeling that it was gonna be awesome. Wasn't disappointed except for the length.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remember loving that Regal/Orton match when it happened. (Y)

And the only HHH/HBK matches I've enjoyed are the '03 one, the '06 one, TT '04 and SS '02. But goddamn I fucking hate the HIAC and 3SoH encounters. Need to check out the '96 one as I've never seen it.

And the Christmas one is a classic.


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

I keep forgetting how great Orton's mat work is, the match with Regal didn't feel like Orton was being carried in anyway, both men were working hard, and it was enjoyable.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Popped in WM 24 on my DVD player and got the NBA finals on my computer.


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> Popped in WM 24 on my DVD player and got the NBA finals on my computer.


WM 24 had a really weak card.

I think that was the first WM I didn't buy at all. Just didn't want to see any of the matches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Ahh WM 24 never gets old. My top 5 favorite manias. Such a stacked card. 

Taker/Edge ****1/2
HBK/Flair ****1/4
MITB ****
Cena/Orton/HHH ***3/4
Umaga/Batista ***
JBL/Finely ***

Hell even Mayweather and show was entertaining.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Amazing_Cult said:


> I keep forgetting how great Orton's mat work is, the match with Regal didn't feel like Orton was being carried in anyway, both men were working hard, and it was enjoyable.


Yeah, I love how perfectly he executed that Monkeyflip like maneuver. He can be a pretty good mat technician as seen in that match, against Benoit and hopefully when/if he feuds with Bryan, he brings that side out of him. A submission finisher wouldn't hurt either.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Amazing_Cult said:


> WM 24 had a really weak card.
> 
> I think that was the first WM I didn't buy at all. Just didn't want to see any of the matches.




WHAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> WHAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?


Eh. Might not be a popular opinion, but I just didn't find any of the matches to be particularly interesting.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Amazing_Cult said:


> WM 24 had a really weak card.
> 
> I think that was the first WM I didn't buy at all. Just didn't want to see any of the matches.


Heh, this is where we differ as it's my favorite WWE PPV of all time.


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

Brye said:


> Heh, this is where we differ as it's my favorite WWE PPV of all time.


Gotta disagree sometimes :kobe3

Recent favorite PPV: Over The Limit 2012 [Everything except Cena vs Big Johnny was pretty good, even the Divas' match was alright.]

I can't name an all-timer yet, haven't fully watched many PPVs.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The last PPV that I considered a favorite of mine would be Extreme Rules 2012. There hasn't been a PPV that has topped that since tbh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

a favorite PPV of mines not meaning I like all the matches but summerslam 11 LOVED the build with the 2 wwe champions, orton and christian, hhh,nash etc really had a big PPV feel to it and a must buy


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> a favorite PPV of mines not meaning I like all the matches but summerslam 11 LOVED the build with the 2 wwe champions, orton and christian, hhh,nash etc really had a big PPV feel to it and a must buy




Agreed. Thought Christian/Orton was MOTN. ****1/4 I'll actually have to give it a rewatch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching the 2005 Elimination Chamber again. Holy fuck, this is just way too epic! ★★★★½ and will probably end up in the top 5 for my list when it's all said and done.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Just finished watching the 2005 Elimination Chamber again. Holy fuck, this is just way too epic! ★★★★½ and will probably end up in the top 5 for my list when it's all said and done.


Probably the best EC, imo. Amazing stuff out of every guy in it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

contemplating giving NYR chamber 05 the full 5, at least ****3/4 at the minimum for me


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

NYR 05 Chamber's at ****1/4 for me.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project*








*Rhyno vs Tazz- RAW Is WAR 6/04/01*

This is a match to qualify for the 2001 King of the Ring tournement. Rhyno and Tazz get into each other's faces and stare each other down with Rhyno shoving Tazz's face. Tazz hammers away punches on Rhyno as the match starts. Tazz takes Rhyno down with a T-Bone Tazplex following it up with a clothesline and kicking Rhyno out of the ring. Tazz throws Rhyno onto the barricade and then throws him back into the ring. Tazz attempts to give Rhyno what looks like a set up for a German suplex but Rhyno reverses it and takes Tazz down with a clothesline. Tazz crawls toward the corner turnbuckle and gets a running shoulder thrust from Rhyno. Tazz gets covered by Rhyno but Tazz kicks out at 2. Tazz hits Rhyno in the stomach with a punch but Rhyno takes Tazz down with a punch of his own. Rhyno gives Tazz a suplex and goes for another cover but Tazz kicks out at 2. Rhyno gives Tazz a head-butt and gives him another one. Tazz kicks Rhyno in the stomach and Rhyno gives Tazz a kick to the stomach as well along with punches to the face which takes Tazz down. Rhyno goes up on the top rope but Tazz takes him down with another T-Bone Tazplex. Tazz encourages Rhyno to get up and hits Rhyno with a Gore. Tazz goes for a cover but Rhyno kicks out at 2 which gets Tazz upset at the referee. Rhyno Irish whips Tazz to the corner turnbuckle and goes for a shoulder thrust but misses. From behind, Tazz applies a Tazmission-Plex on Rhyno. Rhyno throws Tazz against the corner turnbuckle to get out of the Tazmission-Plex but Tazz still won't let go. Rhyno finally gets out of the Tazmission-Plex by dropping Tazz back-first onto the canvas. Rhyno hits Tazz with a Gore and wins the match.

This was good. Two short and chubby dudes with different wrestling styles wrestling a good 4+ minute match. Tazz suplexing Rhyno like a rag-doll was pretty fun to watch. Not to mention Tazz hitting Rhyno with his own Gore. Good match that got Rhyno qualifyed into the King of the Ring tournement which did it's job of giving Rhyno a good win here. Alright with me. *Rating:* ★★★


*Rhyno & The Big Show vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit- Smackdown 6/7/01*

Jericho and Benoit are competing in a tag team Gautlet match. They defeated APA and now they are facing off against Rhyno & The Big Show. Rhyno runs to the ring first as Big Show walks to the ring. Benoit and Jericho attack Rhyno as he gets inside the ring. They then go after Big Show who overpowers them both with a clothesline. Big Show takes Jericho and gives him a slap to the chest. Big Show Irish whips Jericho to the corner ropes and runs toward him but Jericho gives Show a kicks to the face. Show catches Jericho with a choke to the throat and attempts to go for a chokeslam but Benoit grabs onto Big Show's arm with Big Show throwing Benoit out of the ring. Jericho tries to take the big man down but Big Show throws Jericho face-first onto the canvas. Big Show picks Jericho back up and takes him down with a head-butt. Show goes to tag in Rhyno who goes to work on Jericho with punches and kicks to the stomach. Rhyno Irish whips Jericho to the corner ropes and hits Jericho with a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno throws Jericho into a corner turnbuckle and tags in Big Show. Show Irish whips Jericho to the ropes and gives Jericho a sidewalk slam. Show gives Jericho a hard-hitting punch to the face and tags in Rhyno who hammers away kicks on Jericho's back. Rhyno Irish whips Jericho to the corner turnbuckle and goes for a running shoulder thrust but ends up missing. Chris Jericho crawls to tag in Benoit. Rhyno prevents the tag by grabbing onto Jericho's leg but Jericho gives Rhyno an enziguri and tags in Benoit with Rhyno tagging Show. Benoit gets the upperhand on Show. Jericho puts Big Show in a Walls of Jericho while Benoit puts Show in a Crossface which looks awesome. Rhyno takes a steel chair and bashes Jericho in the head with it. Rhyno also hits Benoit in the back with the steel chair. Rhyno stomps on Jericho and then gives Jericho a Gore with Jericho flying out of the ring. Big Show grabs Benoit by the neck and gives him a chokeslam. Both Rhyno and Show leave the ring with Jericho and Benoit down and out. Jericho and Benoit win this match by DQ.

Solid tag match. The spot with Jericho putting Show in the Walls of Jericho while Benoit applies the Crossface on Show was awesome. The post-match beatdown was great and it made Rhyno and Show look strong without looking weak. Good match. Nothing else to say really. *Rating:* ★★★


*Rhyno & The Big Show vs Chris Jericho- RAW Is WAR 6/11/01*

Jericho takes on Rhyno and Big Show by himself in this match. Rhyno runs to the ring and him and Jericho trade punches with Jericho taking him down with a one-hand bulldog as Big Show makes his way to the ring. Jericho gives Rhyno a suplex and then takes Big Show off the apron with a Springboard dropkick. Jericho Irish whips Rhyno and strikes him with an elbow to the face. Jericho hits Rhyno with a Lionsault and goes for a cover but Big Show drags Jericho out of the ring and throws him into the steel steps. Show picks Jericho back up and gives him a clothesline. Show picks Jericho up and throws him over the ropes and into the ring. Rhyno takes Jericho down with a running clothesline. Rhyno Irish whips Jericho to the corner turnbuckle and gives him a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno tags in Big Show who gives Jericho a big boot to the face. Big Show pins Jericho with his foot but steps on Jericho's abdomen instead. In goes Rhyno with Big Show tagging him in. Rhyno Irish whips Jericho to the ropes but gets kicked in the face followed with an enziguri from Jericho. Jericho is in control of the match for a bit, hitting Rhyno with a flying clothesline and punching Big Show on the apron. Big Show who gets ticked off gets inside the ring and goes after Jericho. Show gives Jericho a slap across the chest and knees him in the stomach. Rhyno Irish whips Jericho to the corner ropes with Big Show Irish whipping Rhyno towards Jericho for a running strike but Rhyno misses and hits the turnbuckle. Jericho then throws Big Show onto Rhyno which takes Rhyno down. While the referee has his attention on Rhyno, Big Show grabs Jericho by the throat to go for a chokeslam but Jericho kicks Show in the nuts and throws Rhyno out of the ring. Jericho goes on the top rope and gives Big Show a missile dropkick. Jericho puts Show in the Walls of Jericho. Rhyno breaks up the submission but Jericho puts Rhyno in the Walls of Jericho. Show grabs Jericho by the throat and is finally able to give Jericho a chokeslam. From out of nowhere, Rhyno gives Big Show a Gore and pins Jericho to win the match. 

This was solid stuff. I usually dislike TV Handicap matches but this was pretty good. Nice back and fourth in this match and Rhyno giving Big Show a Gore from out of nowhere was unexpected. Although I'm not sure what Rhyno giving Show a Gore accomplishes since it isn't lead to a feud between them or anything. Fun Handicap match nonetheless with Rhyno pinning Jericho. *Rating:* ★★3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's NO FUCKING WAY I'm watching all of Henry's early days PRE 2002, so I'm going to watch what looks good. MARK HENRY VS VADER INCOMING.

:henry1


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm willing to watch pre-02 Henry because Henry's mah boi and I'm curious to find possible gems (and I'm basically willing to watch anything), but if you're putting together a list of best Mark Henry matches there's pretty much no point in bothering to watch that stuff if you don't want to. The Vader match(es?) *are* fun, at least. IIRC his debut match is fun as well because Jerry Lawler is the ultimate dickhead heel.

I'm guessing you'd want to really focus on 2003, 2004 (the few matches he had on Raw w/ Benoit and Jericho are really good), 2006, 2008, probably most of 2009, 2011 (duh), and 2012. A top ten Henry matches would probably have, like, five-seven matches from 2011.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Lawler is SUCH a douche in the Mind Games match, it's fucking awesome.

I know, I'm going to watch all of his PPV bouts in order and then watch all of his matches PERIOD from 2006 - present, w/ me just picking matches that look awesome on paper to watch prior to that one TBH, it's still going to be around 250 - 300 matches to watch, but I fucking love Henry so I don't really give a fuck.

Vader match @ Fully Loaded was FUN but not really great, the only like REALLY GOOD Henry Match as of mid 1998 seems to be the match with Lawler which I have at *****. Seems as if when Henry went down to OVW in 2000 - 2001 ALA Big Show, it changed him for the better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Have you seen the 2/10/06 Undertaker match? I NEEEEEED somebody else to love that. Ofuck if I didn't have someone coming over today I would spend the whole day chucking Henry matches in your face. This is your warning for tomorrow. :mark:


I think more than anything Henry needed to b a monster heel. He's a fun/good babyface brick wall, but not one of the better guys in in company like he is when he's a killer heel. I should watch and/or revisit some 09-10 face Henry, though. I did like him as a face in 2002. I need to 'youtube' Henry again. I might bump him up on the list to right after Goldberg.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Never checked out that Taker match yet, I was thinking about it earlier today though, it's probably number one on my list of Henry matches that I NEED to see. 

It seems as if Henry is one of those cases where when really MOTIVATED, he's fucking awesome. Seems as if the more they give him the work with, the more that he delivers. When they treat him like a big deal, he delivers like a big deal. These early matches aren't good, but I think that's more of a mix between what era it was, Henry being green, & the quality of opponents.

I need like a LIST of pre-2006 Henry to watch before I break out the BIG GUNS. What makes that so awesome is that if I watch it linear, I can see how Henry progressed as a worker.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So as I mentioned earlier, Triple H had over 700 televised matches, 155 on PPV. My question, for those of you that do these large projects, do you watch every match? Obviously I watched a lot of the big ones, and may only rewatch a few, because I'm set on those rankings. 

I've already made a list of nearly 150 matches to watch, and left out a number of matches, usually ones that ended in a DQ or no contest. Tried to keep my eye out for surprise opponents also.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I watched and ranked every single PPV match HHH was ever in once upon a time; it was a TERRIBLE LIST.

You wanna watch ALL of his 2000-2002, 2004-2006, while being somewhat selective over his 2007 - present face stuff and very selective of his pre 2000 stuff. Watch all of the PPV bouts for sure, but in the end it's all your choice anyways. I'm a lunatic who needs to leave to stone unturned unless in an extreme case such as an overwhelming amount of garbage, so it would take me at least half a year to do a HHH list.

WOW. FUCK THIS SURVIVOR SERIES 1998 TAG. IT ISN'T GOOD.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, the post 2007 opponents look less than stellar, and the trio of matches with Eugene are actually enticing, especially since the SS match gets a good bit of love around here. 

Haven't seen the Iron Man with Benoit either I don't think, so definitely looking forward to 2004.

Also, it's only out of morbid curiosity that I'm going to check out Game vs Chavo from Jan. 2006.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

* Gets enraged at how bad these Pre-2002 Henry Matches are & starts watching his 2002 run in order *

* Comeback match against Christian is three minutes of AWESOME *

You can actually be pretty picky most years when it comes to Trips. The guy had like 86 televised matches in 1999 (it'll say more on ProfightDB but that includes MSG House Shows), and you only really need to see like ... 10, not even really .


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im considering doing a project soon


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The HUGE one I've always wanted to do but it would require me to stay away from all projects for like TWO YEARS would be a RIC FLAIR ONE. Saw a 177 disc comp of his the other day online, if I had that It'd be watched ASAP.

Henry in 2002 has been a HUGE IMPROVEMENT. I'm keeping this shit to singles matches as all of the tags are incredibly impossible to find.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> The HUGE one I've always wanted to do but it would require me to stay away from all projects for like TWO YEARS would be a RIC FLAIR ONE. Saw a 177 disc comp of his the other day online, if I had that It'd be watched ASAP.
> 
> Henry in 2002 has been a HUGE IMPROVEMENT. I'm keeping this shit to singles matches as all of the tags are incredibly impossible to find.


you could probably find them in raw or smackdown packs..


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YEAH.

WATCH THAT MATCH RIGHT NOW.

**** 1/4* in 3 minutes. This fucking OWNED.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy mackarel, that Tajiri/Henry match was loads of fun. Why did I skip that match during my 2002 binge?

Are we all in agreement that Kofi Kingston should come back as a heel? Not only that, but he should also employ a "Chief Keef" gimmick with the adlibs as well. Maybe also get someone else to be Riff Raff (Bo Dallas?).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I know I'm a little late on this but I did some catching up tonight and HOLY SHIT at D-Bry's current development. They should seriously just call it Monday Night RAW Starring Daniel Bryan (I think Cody or someone said this before but seriously). His performances in the ring are mindblowing good then he exudes nothing but passion and determination is his backstage promos. When he was flat out YELLING in Orton's face? Yeah you don't see that too often nowadays.

Shield vs. Orton/Hell No from RAW was tremendous: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/649042-2013-motyc-thread-53.html#post19420249

Also caught both his matches with Ryback. First match from Smackdown 5/3 was great, *** 1/2. Enjoyable formula and an awesome showing from Bryan. 2nd encounter from the same episode of RAW (6/3) topped the last one at a HIGH END *** 3/4. Bryan carried that shit almost all the way through til the last couple minutes where Ryback counters a couple things and kills the hell out of him. With a proper finish I would've definitely seen MOTYC level. BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON PEOPLE :mark:

Is Nostalgia a fan of him yet?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think I did spout off that Danielson line :lmao

True facts all the same. It really is.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Holy mackarel, that Tajiri/Henry match was loads of fun. Why did I skip that match during my 2002 binge?
> 
> Are we all in agreement that Kofi Kingston should come back as a heel? Not only that, but he should also employ a "Chief Keef" gimmick with the adlibs as well. Maybe also get someone else to be Riff Raff (Bo Dallas?).


Well Prince Nana had a tryout with WWE and if things go well he could come in as Kofi's manager. They are both from Ghana so there is already a connection.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> YEAH.
> 
> WATCH THAT MATCH RIGHT NOW.
> 
> **** 1/4* in 3 minutes. This fucking OWNED.


Fast count! Good spots there especially for a 3 minute match.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho (Judgement Day 2009)*










The smarky Chicago crowd are firmly behind Jericho to begin with, despite what JR would have you believe. The simple truth about Chicago is that it appreciates great wrestlers and wrestling – period. While they've been a bit quiet this evening they come alive for this match here and rightly so. This is an athletic, crisp contest with a thunderous pace between two of the very best performers to ever work in a WWE ring. You might say both men are demoted to work with the Intercontinental Championship, but this match and the rest of the trilogy that begins here actually elevates the title considerably. This is match of the night by a fair margin, no matter where it is on the card. I love the story of Jericho avoiding the 619 at all costs – it adds character to the match AND builds anticipation from the audience with every failed attempt. So many great near-falls, Mysterio of course a rare main-event performer who Jericho can look physically dominant against for a change. The numerous counters to Rey's offence are marvellous without ever making Rey look weak. The ending is a bit abrupt, but it puts the 619 over well and leads right into their next match.

*****1/4*​


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

A crowd who appreciates great wrestlers and wrestling supporting Jericho over Mysterio doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Judgment Day was great, but Extreme Rules and The Bash are even better :mark:

Imma return to my SD Six project, what is the general consensus on Angle/Benoit Ultimate Submission?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Fluze said:


> *Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho (Judgement Day 2009)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice stuff, I was actually thinking of re-watching all the Jericho/Mysterio matches from their 2009 series as I haven't seen them in a while.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*Cesaro/Neville* (NXT 3/21/13 or 4/24/13, don't know which date counts) was a great match. 8 minutes of simple and effective storytelling, power versus speed, ground versus air. I didn't watch too much of WWE this year, but this match is the best thus far. These two have great chemsitry, always had.

******


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Wait....there is two Cesaro/Neville matches out there?!


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Caponex75 said:


> Wait....there is two Cesaro/Neville matches out there?!


No, I just wasn't sure should I put the date of taping, or the date of airing.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

You son of a bitch. Great.....I'm downloading a NXT show for no raison now.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Caponex75 said:


> You son of a bitch. Great.....I'm downloading a NXT show for no raison now.


One reason to is that NXT is awesome sauce.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Silverthorn said:


> A crowd who appreciates great wrestlers and wrestling supporting Jericho over Mysterio doesn't make sense to me.


It wasn't meant that way though. I use it as a completely separate statement, that of Chicago crowds thriving off of quality wrestling. Mysterio is obviously the MUCH greater worker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't like the Angle/Benoit matches, but the 1st 10 mins of their Backlash '01 are AMAZING. Kinda lost itself, but overall it's still ***1/2 stuff imo.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I think Chicago crowds do get their kicks from cheering for heels nonetheless. Still probably the best wrestling city tho.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Chicago is a little too hostile for my liking, MGS will always be my fav.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'd take Punk over Jericho as a worker, tbh.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

It's close between Punk and Jericho.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Landslide, in all honesty. If it was close, i'd replace Punk with Edge. I'm never been high on Jericho's ring work, on top of that, he's never been the standout performer in an amazing match, so it's understandable.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

He was the standout performer against Michaels @ WrestleMania and GAB.

I wouldn't put Edge anywhere near him tbh.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Jericho in 2008 was the shit


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Silverthorn said:


> He was the standout performer against Michaels @ WrestleMania and GAB.
> 
> I wouldn't put Edge anywhere near him tbh.


Wrestlemania 19 wasn't amazing, at peak "solid" only. GAB is quite the treat, but that was mostly down to Shawn's selling of the eye, blading and such.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Right now, it's nowhere close between either worker. 

Punk > Jericho.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I know I'm a little late on this but I did some catching up tonight and HOLY SHIT at D-Bry's current development. They should seriously just call it Monday Night RAW Starring Daniel Bryan (I think Cody or someone said this before but seriously). His performances in the ring are mindblowing good then he exudes nothing but passion and determination is his backstage promos. When he was flat out YELLING in Orton's face? Yeah you don't see that too often nowadays.
> 
> Shield vs. Orton/Hell No from RAW was tremendous: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/649042-2013-motyc-thread-53.html#post19420249
> 
> ...


No. Though I'll admit, this new more serious Bryan is better direction for him to take as I couldn't stand the comedy stuff from him. The new attitude, being able to show more in the ring, having competitive matches with main event guys, this will help more people take him seriously, but to complete the transformation he really needs a look makeover. Lose the messy hair and homeless man's beard and give him a look that compliments his new direction and not a look that labels him a joke like his current look does. 

His current look is associated with his comedy run in Team Hell No, and is associated with comedy nicknames like ''Goat Face'' and that look needs to go ASAP if they want to push him as a more serious wrestler. 

I've barely been watching the shows over the past month so I haven't seen much of what's been going on, but I did catch a few minutes of his match with Ryback on RAW and he looked good in it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> No. Though I'll admit, this new more serious Bryan is better direction for him to take as I couldn't stand the comedy stuff from him. The new attitude, being able to show more in the ring, having competitive matches with main event guys, this will help more people take him seriously, but to complete the transformation he really needs a look makeover. Lose the messy hair and homeless man's beard and give him a look that compliments his new direction and not a look that labels him a joke like his current look does.
> 
> His current look is associated with his comedy run in Team Hell No, and is associated with comedy nicknames like ''Goat Face'' and that look needs to go ASAP if they want to push him as a more serious wrestler.
> 
> *I've barely been watching the shows over the past month* so I haven't seen much of what's been going on, but I did catch a few minutes of his match with Ryback on RAW and he looked good in it.


Oh my... Well you're gonna want to catch anything he's been associated with. No joke, all the tags against the Shield and all the singles. He's perfected the tag formula and he's just as over as Orton is right now, if not more. You're gonna like him now dammit!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton are the only reasons I've bothered coming back to actively watching post-Mania after quitting last year. I keep telling myself that I will never bother watching 3 hour Raws live again but tonight, I think I'll be on it again. Although I need to be active with something in the background before I doze off due to all the fast-forward material.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I watched that Undertaker v Big Show cage match from Smackdown! December '08. It's not great but considering the size of the two of them inside a cage it was pretty damn impressive. I thought Taker was going to do a high spot off the top of the cage at one point!


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Did this will be interesting, Rock or Edge as an in-ring worker?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

PunK>>Jericho>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Edge

Jericho is a great worker, wm 19 with hbk for example is fantastic

I only watch shield vs hell no matches nowadays, don't watch anything else until :ziggler1 is back

I watched ss 02 hhh/hbk last night,it shockingly holds up really well. Only grip is time they could of shaved 5-10 minutes off of it but great match nonetheless


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I'd take Edge over Rock, everyday and any day of the week. Dwayne had a good charismatic presence and his crowd working was/is of top notch quality, but those things just don't tick my boxes as far wrestling goes. Edge now, he had great heel-like facial expressions, which is under the psychology field, control segments were all diverse and varied to the point, where you expected new tactics thrown in from time to time. Edge is better, IMO.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Did this will be interesting, Rock or Edge as an in-ring worker?




Edge. Took more bumps, more 4 star matches IMO, and better in ring psychology over Rock.


Plus some of the rocks selling was over the top.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm getting worried that Edge is going to be a case of a wrestler that is so overrated that he becomes underrated. His main event run on a weekly basis was pretty poor, but he was a great big-time player (a la Cena). Lots of great matches on his resume, and he could play a face and a heel very well in the ring. Over time though, his control segments did get boring/lazy, and as the injuries racked up, he got worse and worse.

Jericho = Punk >> Edge

Jericho is one of the best total packages in history, and his catalog of matches is incredible. You can definitely make an argument about him having dry spells in his career (2002-2003, early WCW career), but his 1998 and 2008 were two of the best years that I can think of for a mainstream North American wrestler. You can also make the argument that he was not the "best" worker in many of his classics, but almost every great match requires two to tango, and Jericho really never looked like he was falling behind in any of his classic bouts (except for 1996-1997 WCW :eddie). One of the best ever at interacting with the crowd and effortlessly portraying his charisma in the ring with his mannerisms, and he too can play the face and heel very well accordingly.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Where the fuck are my homies at? Hayley, KOK, ABH, C2D, Gamblor, Hohiem (What the fuck ever) of light, Cal, Oliver, ******* etc. Get your asses in here and talk about shit (matches).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Like Triple H, Edge always seemed more suited for gimmick matches, though he wasn't as good at them as Triple H, so he kinda falls into the 'mediocre' category for me. He has been involved in some classic matches, but I always felt he played a better second fiddle role than the main player.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

BlandyBoreton83 said:


> Randy Orton is nothing more than an upper midcarder at best. He's a good worker but he doesn't have the charisma, presence and starpower to be a genuine main eventer.
> Chris Jericho should have went over HHH at WM18 and dropped the title a month later.
> *The Rock is one of the greatest in-ring workers of all time.*
> Alex Riley could have easily been a huge babyface for the WWE if they got behind him.
> ...


I think i'm gonna puke. Someone please get me a bucket.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Amma go watch HHH/Lesnar ER match finally. I shall report back soon with my rage or adoration of said match. Or forget to watch it altogether and continue playing Mafia II.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Callamus? What the fuck.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Amma go watch HHH/Lesnar ER match finally. I shall report back soon with my rage or adoration of said match. Or forget to watch it altogether and continue playing Mafia II.


 IT'S A GREAT MATCH, DAMNIT!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's not forget about the fact that during the last 2 years of Edge's career he was actually worse than just mediocre; he was fucking BAD with only some flashes of being good at times, but nothing that suggested flashes of BRILLIANCE or anything.

People like to talk about Edge like the ladder/TLC match is HIS gimmick when there are handfuls upon handfuls of guys better than him at that.

Oh & also; Punk's 2011 - present destroys Jericho's best run IMO, & I actually mark for Jericho from time to time. My beef with Jericho is that people like to throw him in with the big three (Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero) as one of the greatest workers ever when it isn't the case. He is indeed really, really fucking good though and one of the BETTER workers.

CAL'S WATCHING BROCK-GAME :mark::mark::mark:. I hope you enjoy it as much as some of us have as it's a pretty awesome match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOATAntics said:


> Callamus? What the fuck.


Private "joke" that only a handful of people in the world understand . Shame everyone else doesn't get it because the thing that it's from is fucking AWESOME.

About 2 minutes into HHH/Lesnar:

Michael Cole: HE IS TOSSING TRIPLE H ALL OVER THE CAGE.

Eeeewwww.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Edge is one of the most overrated performers in history, especially by the WWE it's self. I mean, they guy was useful and served a a good purpose when the roster lacked a top heel, but by no means would I call him great, iconic, amazing or anything else when it relates to the majority of professional wrestling. I respect him for putting his body on the line and I respect him for stepping up to the plate when needed but to compare him to some of the all time greats is ridiculous, in my opinion. The matches that are considered great (ONS 6 man, vs Orton Vengeance 2004, Taker WM and HIAC) he wasn't the stand out performer, and he wasn't in his TLC matches either, the same match type that many claim to be "his". But whatever.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Edge is good, get used to it. To the above, I haven't seen people regard him as some kind of God in the ring, especially not in the IWC. He gets undeserved hate at times.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Let's not forget about the fact that during the last 2 years of Edge's career he was actually worse than just mediocre; he was fucking BAD with only some flashes of being good at times, but nothing that suggested flashes of BRILLIANCE or anything.
> 
> People like to talk about Edge like the ladder/TLC match is HIS gimmick when there are handfuls upon handfuls of guys better than him at that.
> 
> Oh & also; Punk's 2011 - present destroys Jericho's best run IMO, & I actually mark for Jericho from time to time. My beef with Jericho is that people like to throw him in with the big three (Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero) as one of the greatest workers ever when it isn't the case. He is indeed really, really fucking good though and one of the BETTER workers.


Punk might be "better" (and I'm not fully convinced of that), but I think I'd prefer Jericho's best to Punk's best.

Jericho's 08-09 heel run with HBK and Mysterio feud is just other-worldly good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Edge is one of the most overrated performers in history, especially by the WWE it's self. I mean, they guy was useful and served a a good purpose when the roster lacked a top heel, but by no means would I call him great, iconic, amazing or anything else when it relates to the majority of professional wrestling. I respect him for putting his body on the line and I respect him for stepping up to the plate when needed but to compare him to some of the all time greats is ridiculous, in my opinion. But whatever.


FC summing my mindset on Edge up to a TEE.

I loved alot of his stuff in 2006 such as the Mania match w/ Foley, the ONS tag, Summerslam Vs Cena, etc. That's more due to, you know, being in matches with TERRY FUNK AND MICK FUCKING FOLEY THOUGH.

About to watch Goldberg-Henry, get fucking jealous.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I'd take an average day on the job by Punk, then the best of Jericho. Y2J just errks me beyond belief.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Oh & also; Punk's 2011 - present destroys Jericho's best run IMO, & I actually mark for Jericho from time to time. My beef with Jericho is that people like to throw him in with the big three (Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero) as one of the greatest workers ever when it isn't the case. He is indeed really, really fucking good though and one of the BETTER workers.


Don't know how many belong anywhere close to the "big 3" but Jericho is one of the guys who wouldn't look completely out of place in that position.

It's tragic that Rey vs Benoit never happened in a "big time" match. Those two in a 20 minute match in early 2006. :mark:

EDIT: And Jericho >>> Edge = Punk


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Benoit vs. Taker. 

I feel like cutting Vince's balls off and have him kneel down, and allow me to kick his ass into a fire place, and watch him burn in continuous pain for not lending us a glimpse of that match, at both their best, which was arguably 2006. C2D, you know what i'm talking about.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Looks like Danielson will be the new Big Three all by himself as the Big One. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I've given up on HHH/Lesnar already. Guess I'm not in the mood. Outside of anything involving THE SHIELD and DANIEL BRYAN, I haven't watched a full match in nearly 2 months. I really don't care any more when it comes to wrestling lol. Current wrestling can fuck off atm lol. WWE sucks, TNA sucks, Indies have been shite for years now (since WWE started signing the good guys). Fuck everything else. I have, however, seen the last 2 UFC PPV's in full. Huh.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Jericho ain't even close to Benoit, Eddie, Rey or Bryan. Hell, i'd even put Angle above him, and i'm one of those who loathe his lack of in-ring psychology.

Cal, Watch Taker vs. Angle - SD 2003.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)




----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed Danielson is the only man in the company today who can lay claim to being anywhere near that elite class. I would consider Punk to be somewhere near there as well, but I always found Punk to be a "different" kind of worker; I kind of get what Bret says about Punk being an innovator as it seems that Punk is a guy who is implementing a more "intelligent" working style rather than flash. I haven't seen anything like it since well..... Eddie.

But yeah, Bryan rules all.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Punk is awesome, i'd discuss him more on a Bret, Perfect, Taker, Lesnar level, rather than the big four level, as mentioned above.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I would, but I'd have to get out of my chair to get the Undertaker DVD out to watch it. And fuck moving . Besides if I ain't in a wrestling mood I might end up not liking the match that much on this watch. So nah. No wrestling for me for the time being.


----------



## MasterGoGo (Mar 15, 2011)

Edge is good, but nowhere in the Top10 good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao For the first time ever, I sung the praises of The Rock in a post, and immediately afterwards I get a swarm of green reps from various posters. Might as well do it more often in order to inflate that rep count.

I am obviously heavily biased, but I am ready to say that Punk's run from the summer of 2011 to the summer of 2012 is in contention for the greatest year span run in WWE history. The man brought it on PPV and in television matches better than anyone in the company. He also worked with so many different workers, and the only one that he did not have a good showing against was The Miz. Even then, the TLC triple threat match was freakin' awesome. If Punk wasn't so suspect with the way he executes moves, then I truly believe that it would not be out of the ordinary to consider him in the upper echelons of American wrestlers.

Benoit/Taker would be absolute sex if it ever occurred. It really pained me to see Benoit drop from main event status in 2004 to becoming a perennial midcarder afterwards, thus not allowing us to see some awesome matches. The man was always over enough to be inserted into any main event feud, but I guess they really needed him as a workhorse.

I remember Benoit and Mysterio having an awesome match on Smackdown in 2002, but other than that I don't recall any other renown singles matches they had. They did have some underrated tag team matches in 1999. WCW in 1999 had one thing going for them, which was their tag team division.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

MasterGoGo said:


> Edge is good, but nowhere in the Top10 good.


Well, no shit sherlock. No one is making that assumption. 

Fuck, laziness is a bitch, ain't it Cal. Want me to link it to you?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Are we talking just Edge's in-ring skills? Dude was solid on the mic, and had some charisma, but yes, he's overrated as an in-ring worker. Can't deny his resume of great matches, but like I said earlier, I think it was very dependent on who he was working with, and if there was a gimmick involved.

edit Yeah, if you want to inflate your rep quickly and easily, just go into a Rock thread and call him the GOAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No, I cba to download it and fuck shitty streaming sites to hell. I like to watch things in the best available quality; DVD, Bluray or HD downloads (for the weekly shows and PPV's).


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Then fucking rip the DVD onto your lap/comp, so the movement is eliminated from essentiality of your routine. Jesus, it's not rocket science.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> A crowd who appreciates great wrestlers and wrestling supporting Jericho over Mysterio doesn't make sense to me.


_*annoying babyface promos/themes caugh, caugh*_

Chicago fans don't tolerate that sort of thing it seems.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That would take up hard drive space. Plus I'd still have to get off my arse to get the DVD in the first place. And its not like I have the desire to watch the match multiple times a week or anything so why put it on my hard drive to begin with? 

Got the mid-90's Spider-Man cartoon on DVD through the post today. Gonna watch that instead. Has some wrestling in it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Benoit/Taker would be absolute sex if it ever occurred. It really pained me to see Benoit drop from main event status in 2004 to becoming a perennial midcarder afterwards, thus not allowing us to see some awesome matches. The man was always over enough to be inserted into any main event feud, but I guess they really needed him as a workhorse.
> 
> I remember Benoit and Mysterio having an awesome match on Smackdown in 2002, but other than that I don't recall any other renown singles matches they had. They did have some underrated tag team matches in 1999. WCW in 1999 had one thing going for them, which was their tag team division.


Yeah, it's complete bullshit how he was dropped ENTIRELY from anything remotely main event after New Year's Revolution 2005. He never got a title shot again, was mostly directionless and became entirely a US Title contender when drafted to Smackdown. Vince deserves to be castrated for this.


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Punk might be "better" (and I'm not fully convinced of that), but I think I'd prefer Jericho's best to Punk's best.
> 
> Jericho's 08-09 heel run with HBK and Mysterio feud is just other-worldly good.


Agreed. 

Punk has never outdone Jericho's '08 heel run. From a pure wrestling standpoint I think Punk puts on more consistent matches than Jericho, but Jericho has been in and out of the business since '05 so I don't know how much that weighs.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Benoit's star status/drawing is nothing to discount, similar to HBK's.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've put over Jericho in his position plenty of times in here without blowing him out of proportion. With that said, he's still not > than Punker in my books. Collectively Punk has the edge.

This is a all around career kind of thing. But the decades that end in "8", Jericho was a king. What a fabulous character.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Haven't been in here for some quite some time now. In downloaded an ECW 1996 pack and started watching it yesterday. So I've been sort of busy with that along with my Callihan pack and Wrestlemania pack. Oh yeah and school. It was mid-term week last week plus stupid group projects are upcoming. Damn school!

Anyway, I see we're just discussing wrestlers and where they rank. I always liked Edge as a worker. He was a hell of a promo guy during his feud with Cena in '06 and that Foley segment on Smackdown in '08. 

I will always remember Edge for his 06 feud with Cena more than anything else. I think that was the feud that really solidified Cena. A company top 10 if you ask me. The hatred between the two just felt so real. It was one of the last few feuds in WWE to actually have HEAT. It was just "hey folks, we expect you to just believe that these two hate each other. We haven't given you much reason to, but just buy into it dammit!"

It's such a shame that most people remember Edge based on his recent run because it's what fresh in most of our minds. His 2010-2011 run left little to be desired. It's such a shame that he didn't retire on a high note and that his last match was in a sub-par match in a crappy feud with Del Rio.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'd take Jericho over Punk and Christian over both. Edge is meh.

Edit: How does a decade end in 8?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Speaking of Christian, I'm guessing they haven't found anything for him to do yet... :sad:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Edge is one of the most overrated performers in history, especially by the WWE it's self. I mean, they guy was useful and served a a good purpose when the roster lacked a top heel, but by no means would I call him great, iconic, amazing or anything else when it relates to the majority of professional wrestling. I respect him for putting his body on the line and I respect him for stepping up to the plate when needed but to compare him to some of the all time greats is ridiculous, in my opinion. The matches that are considered great (ONS 6 man, vs Orton Vengeance 2004, Taker WM and HIAC) he wasn't the stand out performer, and he wasn't in his TLC matches either, the same match type that many claim to be "his". But whatever.




Who rates edge to be amazing or one of the elite? No one. Saying he's overrated is pretty dumb, wwe took forever to push the guy. Oh and edge created the best spot in TLC @ WM 17. Good heel , good look, good on the mic. I 
Just don't understand why he's so "overrated" when even wwe never says how "amazing edge is. He WAS the best at playing a heel at the time being the "ultimate opportunist"

Yes he was better in gimmick matches, honestly so what? More people are gonna wanna see gimmick matches over a regular wrestling match any day of the week.

IMO 

Jericho >	Edge > Punk.


As for Christian, I love the guy , but him coming back is a mistake. It'll just be a waste of time for him honestly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian plug. Images of 2009 running all about my head. So much so that I always tend to undersell his 2010 which was good too for the time he was around. Nine months before getting injured.

EDIT ~ I mini ranted last night on WWE for having Christian and Bourne ready to go, yet they're doing nothing. Why is this happening?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit! Christian! What the hell is going on with him. The last time I can recall seeing him was on RAW 1000.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> Edit: How does a decade end in 8?


I was wondering that too, but assuming he meant year.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

He meant decade year ending in '8'. 1998, 2008.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sharkboy gets the prize.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starting HENRY 2006-A-THON.

Henry Vs Rey = <3 <3 <3

THAT FUCKING FINISH. OH MY GOD. THAT FUCKING RULED.






WATCH. LOVE. ADORE.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh my... Well you're gonna want to catch anything he's been associated with. No joke, all the tags against the Shield and all the singles. He's perfected the tag formula and he's just as over as Orton is right now, if not more. You're gonna like him now dammit!


Nah. :cool2

While I haven't watched much at all in the past month, I've still seen some things he's done such as destroying The Shield on Smackdown and his match with Ryback on RAW. I keep up with things going on thanks to this forum as well. I just don't care about Daniel Bryan so I'm not going to tune him to watch him. But with Ziggler back on RAW this week, Punk back soon, and Bray Wyatt debuting soon, I should get back to watching the shows on a regular basis again. (Y)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I understand that a lot of the IWC and possibly some casual fans have caught on and realised that Edge isn't the bees knees, so to speak. What I was trying to say is that it's one of those things that the WWE try to hammer in to your head so you believe it without giving it any thought, like Shawn Michaels being Mr Wrestlemania. The ridiculous amounts of World Titles and tag titles, Royal Rumble, MITB and KOTR win and his HOF induction as well as two (maybe three, not sure) DVDs being released about him. Yeah, they're not directly shouting "Edge is the best, no-one was better than Edge" but what he has achieved and how good he is do not correlate whatsoever.

Come to think about it, I think a better word to call Edge instead of overrated is an overachiever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I try to stay away from the " wrestler A is better than Wrestler B" debates because its all personal opinions at the end of the day, however to say edge is a better superstar than punk is crazy.

edit: My only question is has edge ever been a great worker ? was he very good before the neck injuries around 02 ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Starting HENRY 2006-A-THON.
> 
> Henry Vs Rey = <3 <3 <3
> 
> ...


That finish is fucking awesome :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

henry/rey from 06 is awsome


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Orton or Cena, as a worker? Let's steer away from the senseless Edge bashing.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rey in-ring work until 2010 was simply awesome. Since then he was nothing more than good


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Callamus said:


> So I've given up on HHH/Lesnar already. Guess I'm not in the mood. Outside of anything involving THE SHIELD and DANIEL BRYAN, I haven't watched a full match in nearly 2 months. I really don't care any more when it comes to wrestling lol. Current wrestling can fuck off atm lol. WWE sucks, TNA sucks, Indies have been shite for years now (since WWE started signing the good guys). Fuck everything else. I have, however, seen the last 2 UFC PPV's in full. Huh.


How about checking out NJPW. Their IPPVs have been decent to great.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> I try to stay away from the " wrestler A is better than Wrestler B" debates because its all personal opinions at the end of the day, however to say edge is a better superstar than punk is crazy.




Why? Surely punk is a better in ring talent, but edge was just as good on the mic, better gimmick/look, generated more heat overtime ,and was a bigger draw than punk.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They have a few matches in 2006, I'm going through Henry's entire 2006 - present run in a linear fashion now so I can't wait for more :mark:.



GOATAntics said:


> Orton or Cena, as a worker? Let's steer away from the senseless Edge bashing.


This isn't even a question .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

as a worker Orton, he is very crisp and clean however he has the worst looking punches Ive ever seen

Who has had better matches- cena x100


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

GOATAntics said:


> Orton or Cena, as a worker? Let's steer away from the senseless Edge bashing.


I think Cena works the main event style better, which is good for him since he's always in the fucking main event.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Starting HENRY 2006-A-THON.
> 
> Henry Vs Rey = <3 <3 <3
> 
> ...


Have you seen this match? 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmadj3_chris-benoit-vs-mark-henry-raw-2-2-2004_sport#.UbYU5bU2iKI



GOATAntics said:


> Orton or Cena, as a worker? Let's steer away from the senseless Edge bashing.


Orton > Cena. Although not by very much.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> I think Cena works the main event style better, which is good for him since he's always in the fucking main event.


(Y) Orton is probably the better worker, conversely is horrible in main event matches


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Why? Surely punk is a better in ring talent, but edge was just as good on the mic, better gimmick/look, generated more heat overtime ,and was a bigger draw than punk.


This is true. I'm a big fan of both guys, but I'll take Edge's 2006 character over anything Punk's done in his career.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cena, but I believe book has allowed John to have more overall better matches than Orton. Orton hasn't been in the main event since 2010. Hopefully that changes. Orton can have great matches with Bryan, sheamus, ziggler (even though their NOC match was disappointing. Hell Ortons matches with the midcarders are even entertaining.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I like Cena more than Orton tbh. He can be an excellent storyteller and do some excellent babyface work (ex. Umaga RR07, Lesnar ER12).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> _*annoying babyface promos/themes caugh, caugh*_
> 
> Chicago fans don't tolerate that sort of thing it seems.


See Sheamus' last trip to Chicago back in the fall, when he interacted with Punk and got SHAT on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Smith_Jensen said:


> How about checking out NJPW. Their IPPVs have been decent to great.


I find it very difficult to get into japanese wrestling. Unless it involves TENRYU then I'm fine with it .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Have you seen this match?
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmadj3_chris-benoit-vs-mark-henry-raw-2-2-2004_sport#.UbYU5bU2iKI


Watched it about 20 minutes ago. About as good as you're going to get for a sub three minute long match, it has come to my understanding that they have a longer match here in 2006 that I should look out for, can't wait :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BENOIT/HENRY. Awesome shit. Loved it during my SD 06 project.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

KoK did you post your top 5 BROCK matches, yet? I was offline all weekend so I likely missed it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Starting HENRY 2006-A-THON.
> 
> Henry Vs Rey = <3 <3 <3
> 
> ...


I called the finish! 

I don't know why but I just thought it would have been cool if Rey would have landed on henry and Henry would just roll right into the World's Strongest Slam. I thought Rey would have done a springboard splash though rather than from the top rope. Good match though.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena pulls off the baby face roles to a much, much greater extent. While Orton doesn't exceed in either. Superman wins again.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well Rey did the Frog Splash as an ode to Eddie, correct?

edit Agreed w/GOATAntics, though I much prefer heel Orton to face Orton.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I find it very difficult to get into japanese wrestling. Unless it involves TENRYU then I'm fine with it .


You know what. You know which comment I was going to make here. I'll let it speak for itself without even being posted...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Watched it about 20 minutes ago. About as good as you're going to get for a sub three minute long match, it has come to my understanding that they have a longer match here in 2006 that I should look out for, can't wait :mark:.


Their 2006 match is awesome too. It's the complete converse. In that 2 minute match, Benoit was used to write Henry out of TV then in 2006, Henry was used to write Benoit off TV with the beatdown.



The Lady Killer said:


> KoK did you post your top 5 BROCK matches, yet? I was offline all weekend so I likely missed it.


Yeah, he did. It went like this IIRC:

5. vs Eddie NWO
4. vs Angle SS
3. vs Benoit SD
2. vs Taker NM
1. vs Cena ER



The Lady Killer said:


> Well Rey did the Frog Splash as an ode to Eddie, correct?


Always.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

TLK, agreed, but those deaf stares ellude the casuals into thinking Orton is a Foley/Roberts/Taker when the matter of psychology is concerned. Quite laughable actually.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No one can have the in-ring psyhology that Taker has, no one


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Obfuscation said:


> You know what. You know which comment I was going to make here. I'll let it speak for itself without even being posted...


You be quiet, bitch.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Now, normally I would say Cena is the better worker by miles. But after watching their No Way Out '08 match, it's hard for me to say really. These two told such an amazing story by doing absolutely nothing in that match. Good God, to me that defines a great worker. When you can put on that great of a performance by doing not one goddamn thing.

Orton/Cena NWO '08 is one of those complex matches that relies more on character than actual moves to tell a story. I always found matches like that more impressive than say, Jericho/Mysterio Bash '09 (don't get me wrong, I fricking love that match). To think that the two guys who could have worked the "getting so much out of nothing" so well would be Cena and Orton. I gotta start using this match more as an example whenever the "Cena can't wrestle" threads start popping up.

Cena is a great worker and knows how to take the crowd through the emotions. Orton knows how to work character into his matches but midcard Orton (2012-present) Orton is just too formulaic for me. Actually, mid-cad Orton sucks and is everything but great at working character into his matches. Quite frankly, midcard Orton is bland. 

I do give the edge to Cena but, still, there's no denying Orton's capabilities.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> KoK did you post your top 5 BROCK matches, yet? I was offline all weekend so I likely missed it.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...show-discussion-thread-1570.html#post19400409


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Spoiler: BROCK LIST



Fear The Fury: Brock Lesnar's Top 25 Matches Ever (5-1)


5. Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero (WWE Championship - No Way Out 2004)










(Nothing witty to say here. This ending gives me goosebumps.)

This was the very last match that I watched for my BROCK project and I thought it was fitting; perhaps the second greatest professional wrestler to ever lace up a pair a boots going toe to toe with the greatest monster heel North America has ever seen? Exciting. I really enjoyed Eddie's battle cry at the beginning of the match, baiting Brock in to "get high" with him in the ring, as this match really played off a ton of the personal issues that Eddie had vercome with his last step being to overcome the impossible and take out the beast once and for all. What makes this match so fantastic is that this was during that last three month span in 2004 where Brock seemingly never gave a fuck and turned in the worst performances of his career, so obviously it seemed as if Eddie was putting in extra work here indeed. Brock never lost sight of his performance though, keeping Eddie grounded throughout the bout with his size, only for Eddie to use his sheer will and determination to fight back and take the championship with a little help from Goldberg of all people. Little known factoid; Brock-Goldberg was originally going to be Brock squashing Goldberg until Brock decided he was walking out on the company, which was then changed. I have no idea what it has to do with this match but it's a classic case of an inspiring babyface performance mixed with a devilish heel performance that makes this match so complete. This was Brock's last WWE Championship match and the beginning of one of the most inspirational title reigns ever, what's not to adore?

***** 1/2*


4. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (WWE Championship - Summerslam 2003)










(WHOA KURT. DA FUCK IS THIS?)

The Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle trilogy in 2003 was one of the better series' of matches that the WWE has ever produced on a main event level, with the gold standard in my eyes being the Summerslam encounter. While this may be an unpopular opinion, you have to look at where Brock & Angle were character wise when this match took place; Brock had sold his soul to the devil with a shaky mindset full of doubt that he could defeat the pure Angle once again, while Angle was ready to take out his frustrations on the devilish Lesnar who had spent the last few months slaughtering all the jobbers he could find. The match itself on the surface is what many individuals would call a "technical" masterpiece; wonderful holds being utilized with a wide variety of intensity and amateur holds into the mix as well. However when you look deeper into this, you'll find the character development to be astounding with Brock's confidence in himself slowly deteriorating towards the end of the match and Kurt's resiliency shining though until the end. Brock's selling of the ankle was fantastic and the last F-5 was ridiculously awesome while Kurt stayed true and delivered one of the greatest performances of his entire life here. A top five Angle match ever with the Austin match, Taker matches in 2006 & 2003, & the ironman being there as well. This fucking ruled and it ruled hard as perhaps my number 2 match of 2003 behind one other affair. The match of the year for 2003? We'll get to that in a second...

***** 1/2*


3. Brock Lesnar Vs Chris Benoit (WWE Championship - Smackdown 12/4/2003)










(BROCK LOCK)

Here's a very unpopular choice but I'll stick to it; this is my match of the year for 2003. Not the overrated Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit from Royal Rumble 2003, not Rock Vs Austin, not HBK Vs Jericho, not Brock Vs Kurt for that matter. This match is so fantastic for a few reasons; Brock is at the peak of his fucking delusional heeldom here, actually FEARING Benoit and his submission based offense while Benoit (who has already wrestled a match earlier agains John Cena) was riding a huge wave of momentum that took him into this match and made Brock that much more concerned about keeping his championship. Brock was adamant about making Benoit tap out just as Orton was adamant about pinning Cena at No Way Out back in 2008, and it really shows here as Brock tries his hardest to work over Benoit and make him submit to the raw power of his holds. The storytelling is just oozing out of this one with Brock getting more and more desperate to put Benoit away as the match rolls on with Benoit having one HELL of a comeback towards the end. I'm not going to give the ending away for this one as I believe everybody should see it, but let's just say that it shows us Benoit's resiliency at the same time it shows us Brock's true cowardice when it comes to his insecurities of being the biggest beast in the company. It's my match of the year for 2003 for a reason, and probably the greatest match to ever take place in the month of December for the company.

***** 1/2*


2. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (WWE Championship Hell in a Cell - No Mercy 2002)










(We're gonna need a bigger band-aid)

WAR. That's the first word that comes to my mind when I think about this match and the impact it had on me when I first watched it. You can criticize the selling of Undertaker's hand all you want and talk about the little things as to why some may absolutely fucking hate this (ADRENALINE + PAIN KILLERS ), but I need to stress something here; I really don't care in this one when it comes to a few flaws, this was fucking brutal from start to finish and SCREAMED "blow off match" to me. The way Brock takes Taker to the limit and beats him down within the confines of his own match only for Taker to fight back & make it even. The way Brock takes off the cast and Heyman holds the hand in place while Brock hammers it with a chair to deplete the Undertaker's spirit, fantastic fantastic work and perhaps the final step in putting Lesnar over as "the guy" as you knew he was legit after watching this one. This was a fucking bloodbath, and for Brock to beat Taker clean in the cell meant more than anybody could ever imagine. The ending to this one still gives me chills as it's one of the beat finishing sequences and false finishes you'll ever see. My MOTY for 2002 and I consider it to be one of the greatest matches in company history, bar none.

Gee. I wonder what number one will be.

***** 3/4* 

*......... AND THE NUMBER ONE BROCK LESNAR MATCH OF ALL TIME IS....*

1. Brock Lesnar Vs Hardcore Holly (WWE Championship - Royal Rumble 2004)










(Truly the greatest match of our time)

Everybody knew this was coming when I first said that I was going to do this list, but I'm going to stick to what I believe in and skip the novelties and shock value picks in stating what I believe to perhaps be the greatest match in company history. Brock's performance was astounding here with perhaps the greatest heel control segment to ever take place in a North American match ever, while Holly's babyface performance was...

Wait. This isn't right. Something seems... OH.

*DUD*


*... & THE REAL NUMBER ONE BROCK LESNAR MATCH OF ALL TIME IS..............*


1. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena (Extreme Rules 2012)










(This is what Wrestling means to me.)

Here we are. This is not only the greatest match in both the careers of John Cena & Brock Lesnar, but in my opinion I would also hold this match in the discussion for the greatest match in WWF/WWE company history. You can bash it all you want and at the end of the day I still won't give a fuck, it's the greatest. I've rambled on and on about this match for ages and looked at Cena's performance inside and out, so why not take a look at Brock in this one and why this match is so special? First of all, Brock had been out of professional wrestling for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS at this point. To put that in perspective, HBK was out for four years when he had his match against HHH @ Summerslam 2002 while still being involved with the business in those four years. You ever think that Brock was practicing his in-ring work whike he was UFC Heavyweight Champion? Fuck that noise, to come back and give perhaps the single greatest heel control segment of all time after an eight year absence is fucking astounding and I'll never comprehend how he was ever to do that besides the fact that he's arguably the most talented performer EVER. In short for those who haven't seen the match for some reason; Brock MURDERS Cena for the duration of the match. Right out of the gate Brock implements a ground and pound offense like we haven't seen in the WWE ever, with his stiff as fuck forearms shots busting Cena open from the get go. The refs coming in and stopping the match to clean up the blood did nothing but add to Brock's mystique as he just took the face of the company, busted him wide open, and proceeded to wipe the blood on himself and LAUGH about it. What a devious son of a bitch, he's out there to take out the face of the company and to make the WWE and all of it's superhero like personas his little bitches while Cena must protect everything he stands for against the personification of what he isn't devoid of; passion for the business. It's systematic brute force going up against heart with Brock having Cena beaten only for Brock's arrogance to get the best of him in the end.

It's the greatest professional wrestling match since the original HIAC and who knows... Maybe someday I'll have it as the greatest professional wrestling match in WWF/WWE history.

Thank You Brock.

Thank You.

:brock

*******


*THE ENTIRE LIST*

1. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena (Extreme Rules 2012)
2. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (No Mercy 2002)
3. Brock Lesnar Vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 2003)
4. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2003)
5. Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero (No Way Out 2004)
6. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Summerslam 2012)
7. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Smackdown 2003)
8. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Judgment Day 2003)
9. Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (Unforgiven 2002)
10. Brock Lesnar Vs The Rock (Summerslam 2002)
11. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Extreme Rules 2013)
12. Brock Lesnar Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 2003)
13. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Survivor Series 2002)
14. Brock Lesnar Vs Hulk Hogan (Smackdown 2002)
15. Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Wrestlemania XXIX)
16. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle (Vengeance 2003)
17. Brock Lesnar Vs Giant Bernard (NJPW 2006)
18. Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle (Wrestlemania XIX)
19. Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit Vs Team Angle (No Way Out 2003)
20. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (6/12/2003 Smackdown)
21. Brock Lesnar Vs Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2002)
22. Brock Lesnar Vs Manabu Nakanishi (NJPW 2005)
23. Brock Lesnar Vs Ric Flair (RAW 2002)
24. Brock Lesnar Vs Akebono (NJPW 2006)
25. Brock Lesnar Vs The Big Show (Royal Rumble 2003)



​



:brock


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton has the weirdest relationship with the audience Ive ever seen, His psychology is so laughable some times but he fans still eat it up lol

Tonight, the best thing in sports entertainment returns :ziggler1 :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> You be quiet, bitch.


:hayley3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I agree with the number 1 Brock match. There's something bout that Cena/Lesnar match. Very polarizing match indeed but for me, to this day, it still feels like a special match. Such a unique match. Man, I really gotta get Extreme Rules 2012 on DVD. It's only $5 on Amazon. The entire event is just sex!


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Austin or Taker, in ring worker?


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Starting HENRY 2006-A-THON.
> 
> Henry Vs Rey = <3 <3 <3
> 
> ...


That match gave me unexpected feels. I was nearing the end, when Rey was pulling off the ultimate babyface comeback, which ended up with him going to the top rope, and hitting the frog splash.

Then my heart absolutely -SANK- when Henry kicked out and rolled up, executing the World's Strongest Slam. Excellent babyface performance from Rey, and always awesome monster heel performance by Henry.

Gonna have to put that match on my iPhone.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I would say Taker because he can give us ****+ matches even at 50 years old


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I agree with the number 1 Brock match. There's something bout that Cena/Lesnar match. Very polarizing match indeed but for me, to this day, it still feels like a special match. Such a unique match. Man, I really gotta get Extreme Rules 2012 on DVD. It's only $5 on Amazon. The entire event is just sex!


b/c it made all us wrestling fans space out at the height of gratification? I agree.

Random match plug: I'm in the mood for Benoit vs RVD from SummerSlam '02. I would dub that as the forgotten classic on a all around classic show, but I think the tag team championship match earns that moniker.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Great khail or Bret Hart as a worker ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

GOATAntics said:


> Austin or Taker, in ring worker?


Well, Taker managed to make such an over the top cartoon gimmick work for 20 years. To me, The Undertaker is the GOAT gimmick. It's a gimmick that lasted the test of time. No matter what era, The Undertaker was a huge name in pro wrestler. I always liked that he managed to tweak the gimmick to fit the times. Early 90s was cartoony, Attitude was more dark, Ruthless Aggression was more of a down to earth thing, and his recent is more that of the early 90s Taker...I think. 

Both Taker and Austin managed to work their characters well into their matches and a unique style of working that matched their persona. In the end, I give the edge to Taker mostly because he's been around longer and has provided more classics.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Great Khali, indefinitely.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> Great khail or Bret Hart as a worker ?


Bret is just so crisp in that ring but Khali has the grace of a swan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Neither. I pick Hakushi.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Great khail or Bret Hart as a worker ?


Neither. I pick El Dandy over Bret Hart.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> b/c it made all us wrestling fans space out at the height of gratification? I agree.
> 
> Random match plug: I'm in the mood for Benoit vs RVD from SummerSlam '02. I would dub that as the forgotten classic on a all around classic show, but* I think the tag team championship match earns that moniker*.


Anything Bookdust did in 2002 was classic. They were legit two of the best in the world that year, in my opinion.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Cena/Punk MITB still holds up at *****, Suprising.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Anything Bookdust did in 2002 was classic. They were legit two of the best in the World that year, in my opinion.


(Y)

Didn't hurt with them getting to work with Christian & Jericho often. Booker's best stint in WWE started from this until he went to Smackdown in '04. His prime, imo.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

GOATAntics said:


> Cena/Punk MITB still holds up at *****, Suprising.


I will always give full marks ro that match. Punk/Cena is the ME of WM that I want to see the most


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anything Punk/Cena gives me orgasms. 

Oh and btw, Giant Baba over Bret.



Srdjan99 said:


> I will always give full marks ro that match. Punk/Cena is the ME of WM that I want to see the most


Not before Rock/Cena III dammit!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

feeling like watch a rumble

which is the best since 05 ?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

2007


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Whatever one ended with HBK/Taker. 07?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

07 is phenomenal but my next choice would be 08. 08 had a lot of good surprises.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

No love for 2008? 

"BAH GAWd! IT'S JOHN CEEENA!! JOHHHNNN CEEENAAA!" 

To me, the greatness of a rumble lies in its star power more than anything else. It's just an over-stylized battle royal really.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Damn that Cena rumble return was fantastic


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I did enjoy 08.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

seems like 07 it is then, opinions on the 2005 ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Undertaker vs Randy Orton - Hell In A Cell - Armageddon 2005

1/4

Love this one, what it should of been re: the whole feud. Plus that multi-time sit up by Taker  and the visual of Taker on top of the cell at the end with the urn.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

2007 Rumble would be my choice also. The only of the Cena era Rumble's that I've watched more than once. 


I don't get the love for the Orton v Undertaker matches. Probs cause I'm not too hot on Orton overall.


Re: Edge, if Taker hadn't buried him in '08 then Edge may have cemented a status as a great. I find his career as a whole quite odd due to his stop/start pushes due to injuries. Overachiever is probably a good way of describing him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Armageddon 2006:*

Kane vs MVP - ★★¼
- First inferno match I've watched out of the four that have happened. Not very bad but not all that either. Pretty scary to be that close to fire.

Londrick vs MNM vs Hardy's vs Regal & Taylor - ★★★¾
- Just an awesome spotfest with four different teams. Like how Regal and Taylor sell their inexperience by acting like they're afraid of heights. And holy fuck, Mercury got messed up bad when he forgot to protect his face. That's one of the most brutal spots ever. He was bleeding like hell in an instant. Can't believe this wasn't announced up until the PPV was on.

Boogeyman vs The Miz - 0
- This sounds like the main event for the "Worst PPV of all time". Skipped it even if it's 3 minutes only.

Chris Benoit vs Chavo Guerrero - ★★★¼
- Another decent match between these two that's about as good as the Survivor Series one. The 8 Germans were awesome as well.

Gregory Helms vs Jimmy Wang Yang - ★★¾
- Solid match for the cruiserweight title. The crappy crowd shits on the match by chanting "Boring" but I like how JBL completely snaps at them and buries the shit out of them, calling them bloodthirsty.

Undertaker vs Mr. Kennedy - ★★★¾
- Probably MOTN, tied with the four way ladder match. Last Ride and they use the stipulation well. Not much ring action and most of it is spend near the ramp. Some pretty cool spots like Taker getting thrown off the top of the Armageddon structure and Chokeslam on the car. Also an awesome visual when Taker sits up inside the Hearse with the camera being by the windshield near the driver's seat. My favorite of their matches.

Batista & John Cena vs Finlay & King Booker - ★★
- A pretty lukewarm main event. Short and not much interesting takes place at all. Generic faces win ending.

*Overall:* ★★★¼ out of ★★★★★ (A pretty good way to end the PPV year after three consecutive bad PPVs. A couple of bad parts but three above average matches and two decent ones is pretty good. And now I'm almost done with 2006!)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

:lmao so now Taker buried Edge?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Literally. HE CHOKESLAMMED HIM INTO AN ABYSS.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

That spot was so random and cheesy lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Literally. HE CHOKESLAMMED HIM INTO AN ABYSS.


All to put over Edge when he fought his way through it, beating demons and past lost souls of Taker to come back and become WWE Champion on his first night back!

:edge


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I was never sure how to feel about that spot at the end of HIAC match. I mean, yeah it looked pretty cool with the fire coming up from the ring. But like, were we supposed to think Edge had actually gone to hell? I can't recall, was that done to write Edge off TV for a while?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I'm guessing that I'm the only one who liked that choleslam spot. I'm all for cheesiness in wrestling. Give me more black holes in the ring dammit!


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

That's the year Edge grew a beard in hell


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I was never sure how to feel about that spot at the end of HIAC match. I mean, yeah it looked pretty cool with the fire coming up from the ring. But like, were we supposed to think Edge had actually gone to hell? I can't recall, was that done to write Edge off TV for a while?


Yeah, Edge needed time off for some reason. 

I liked the spot. It was a bit cheesy but still awesome looking.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SO.

Sheamus & Sandow relegated to Pre-Show Status.

Cena Vs Ryback likely to go 35+ minutes.

:jay


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> SO.
> 
> Sheamus & *Sandow* relegated to Pre-Show Status.


... I almost don't want to order the PPV... but damn it, despite how slim it is, the possibility of Punk being at the Payback will get me to order it... so then I can bitch when he's not there. 

But yeah, if the Sandow/Sheamus match ain't getting PPV time, it crushes any tiny chance Sandow had of winning.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What kind of fucked up world does WWE live in? 

Sheamus on a fucking pre-show?

No wonder they can't build stars. You do not take one of your most over and well established stars and put them on the freaking pre-show. Oh well, it could have been worse. Could have been Ambrose.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That was when he returned and won the Rumble the following year, correct?

edit Well as of now, Ambrose isn't even on the card.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2013 in PPV hasn't been great.

Fully expecting Orton to somehow screw up whatever match he's in, Cena-Ryback to be DUD material, and Punk MAYBE not showing up. UGH.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm surprised that they pulled that pre-show shit with Sheamus. I mean, I'd expect that gross misuse of a talent like Sandow, but Sheamus is the second most protected man in the business right now and he's one of the more over people on the roster, so it does shock me a bit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I highly doubt I'll be ordering this PPV, and this is coming from someone who orders nearly every one.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

We better not get another 6 man tag with the shield at payback. So sick of seeing shield/hell no wrestle. I'm hoping for 

Ambrose/Kane us title
Rollins/reigns vs usos tag titles
Orton/Bryan


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WWE has really lost it. This damn company. Sometimes I wonder. Here's the guy who just beat Mark Henry last month, on the freaking pre-show. 

Anyway, I expect Cena/Ryback to be overbooked. The thing about overbooked endings is that they could be "holy shit did that just happen?" but they could also be "Wtf? Did Vince Russo book this?"


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

xdoomsayerx said:


> We better not get another 6 man tag with the shield at payback. So sick of seeing shield/hell no wrestle. I'm hoping for
> 
> Ambrose/Kane us title
> Rollins/reigns vs usos tag titles
> *Orton/Bryan*


NO!

No pun intended. 

Orton/Bryan could be huge business. It would be a complete waste to just throw it away with 1 week's build. Might as well do it on RAW tonight.

Usos could get a good rub by hanging with The Shield.


----------



## jarrelka (Sep 11, 2011)

Wait wuut? Is Sheamus vs Sandow on the fucking preshow? Why the fuck would they do that?? Source anyone? With all the tvtime this feud been getting and the fact that Sheamus is one of the biggest faces and Sandow the most over midcarder this match shouldnt go on the preshow right? This was one of the matches I was looking forward to the most. Punk vs Jericho , Cena vs Ryback , Ziggler vs Del rio and anything Shield/orton/bryan does. Then what? Will tons of funk go over Sheamus vs Sandow on the fucking maincard or what?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

This is why there is a difference between bookers and story line writers.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I miss press slams used as an offensive on a constant basis, Goldberg used to do it well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> Did this will be interesting, Rock or Edge as an in-ring worker?


Rock in a fucking heartbeat, tbh.



GOATAntics said:


> Orton or Cena, as a worker? Let's steer away from the senseless Edge bashing.


Cena in a fucking heartbeat, tbh. 







The Beast Incarnate said:


> About to watch Goldberg-Henry, get fucking jealous.


Yeah, that match is really good and is probably my Raw MOTY for 2003 (not saying a whole heap, but it's good). I'm pretty much convinced Henry was the best wrestler on the Raw brand in mid-late 2003 (again, not saying a whole heap.....but he was good).

Also holy shit Henry v. Tajiri was awesome. Tajiri striking Henry and then sprinting toward the ropes is what wrestling is all about. Then he gets wiped out and has the motherfucking greatest sooky 'fuck this shiiiiiiit' face of all time, and he starts practically crying. Then he actually gets Henry down and starts crawling on his knees for some time to breathe. I lost my fucking mind when he was trying to get the tarantula on but Henry's leg was too big so Tajiri starts pulling at it with both arms and bobbing his head up and down. I haven't laughed that much at a wrestling spot in a long time, maybe since HHH/Steiner. Holy fucking toad shit, that match was utterly remarkable. ****1/2 

Evan make sure you watch Henry v. Jericho 2/12/04 (I think that's the date). Also the 2003 Booker T feud was good stuff. I am so tempted to join you in this Henry watching.



GOATAntics said:


> Austin or Taker, in ring worker?


Austin fairly easily. I can't say 'in a fucking heartbeat' because I've always loved Taker, but, honestly, I wouldn't have to think about it twice - I think Austin is kinda easily better.



Smith_Jensen said:


> Neither. I pick El Dandy over Bret Hart.


el Dandy smokes Bret Hart and I say that with absolutely no intention of joke. I have no idea if you were joking or not, though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love how yeah comes in the thread and just drops bombs :lol love it


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Undertaker vs. Batista (HIAC) ****1/4


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Undertaker vs. Batista (HIAC) ****1/4




God I loved the Batista/Taker fued. By far Batistas best fued. Taker really got the best out of dave. 

WM 23: ****1/4
Backlash LMS: ****1/2
Cyber Sunday: ****
HIAC: ****1/4
Cage on smackdown: ***3/4


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Nice video package hype for Mizzark. I would love to see him destroy everyone in sight next week ala Big Show's return on Smackdown in 2004. Crosses fingers that they'll put him in an interesting feud.


----------



## 2K JAY (Jan 2, 2011)

How can people say this guy can't talk? fpalm


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Evan make sure you watch Henry v. Jericho 2/12/04 (I think that's the date). Also the 2003 Booker T feud was good stuff. I am so tempted to join you in this Henry watching.


I CAN'T FIND THE JERICHO MATCH .

I enjoyed the Salt Lake City Street Fight, while the stuff with Shawn & Goldie were both excellent. Funny, because all of the reviews I can dig up for these matches all state how bad they were and how bad Henry is as a worker. Taker-Henry from 2/10/2006 is up next & one rating cites it as being a complete DUD, can't wait to see how awesome it actually is.

Some people just can't appreciate Henry, it's cool I suppose.

Seth Rollins Vs Bryan Danielson is happening tonight. Whoa.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Has somebody downloaded the WWE app? I really want to know what happened in the Bryan/Rollins match during the commercial break.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Bryan/Rollins was so fucking good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Monday Night Raw Starring Daniel Bryan.

Seems Legit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Monday Night Raw Starring Daniel Bryan.
> 
> Seems Legit.


:yes

Damn good match. Cody won't be disappointed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Monday Night Raw Starring Daniel Bryan.
> 
> Seems Legit.


Seriously. Three insanely good matches in two weeks.

Would give tonight's at least ***3/4.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I CAN'T FIND THE JERICHO MATCH .


The date is actually 1/12/04, but I can't bloody find it either. Must have been goddamn taken down, I am fuming.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Bryan/Rollins - ***3/4

It's amazing how on point Bryan is every week.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Bryan vs Rollins was so fucking good. ★★★3/4 for it. 

"WOTY here I came."


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How badly botched was Chaos Theory?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well it's like Vince is telling Bryan; "Well FUCK, we have three hours to fill, might as well have the greatest wrestler on the planet go out there and wrestle a fantastic match ever week".

Goes right behind Punk/Cena, Punk/Taker, Shield-Superfriends, & HHH-Lesnar III in my MOTY rankings, making it my #5 WWE MOTY at the moment.

Alot of these Henry matches are fucking IMPOSSIBLE to find, & I don't have XWT so I can't download full seasons + I have no patience to download episodes individually. FUCK.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm sorry but how can someone say that "all Southern crowds suck". I guess they haven't watched much from anything 20+ years ago.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> How badly botched was Chaos Theory?


:lol I laughed at that, I was like what the fuck Danielson?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No I didn't see it, just read about it. Guessing it was bad?


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Great match between Daniel Bryan and Seth Rollins. Match is ***3/4 for me. I am glad they finally had a match in WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> No I didn't see it, just read about it. Guessing it was bad?


Ohhh, well it wasn't bad really, just sloppy. He just kinda threw him backwards on the german attempt. Cool to see it used in a WWE ring though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao at the Kaitlyn segment


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao at the Kaitlyn segment


That segment was hilariously bad. Pure fuckery. :lol

Kaitlyn though. Damn. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

By gawd Kaitlyn wooooooo :flair3 she was looking good. I caught some of bryan/rollins and it was pretty good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shame the crowd was so bad, Rollins/Bryan would have been even better with a good crowd. The crowd completely killed the Orton/Reigns match.

Still a hell of a match plus Bryan won!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lord have mercy, John Cena in this promo is putting on one of the worst mic performances in a very long time. Ryback of all people has constantly outperformed him in this terrible feud.

Bryan/Rollins: ****3/4*

It's like watching Benoit or Mysterio wrestle on Smackdown with the way that Bryan continues to give us awesome performances week in and week out. Not only that, but Bryan is doing it on TWO shows instead of just one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know EVER is so vague and there probably stuff from early 90s that I forgot about but honestly cena/ryback is the WORST main event feud Ive ever seen


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So what I got from Raw:

-Bryan/Rollins- ***3/4

-Sony's burial of Microsoft- ****************


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't care what anyone says, that opening match/segment-Trips/Vince pissing contest with the match restarting was hilarious. Unless they do something with Vince costing Triple H next week, then consider this pointless. 

Last segment was stupid. Cena made Ryback look like even more shit than he already is. Yes, that's right. 

Random Brad/Vickie sighting. Like, really fucking random. 

Hope Ambrose/Kane has a definitive ending on Sunday. Like those two together, but let's end Shield/Hell No interaction for a bit.

After the RKO to Bryan last Friday, if they don't have Orton go full heel on Sunday, then it's another wasted opportunity. And they shouldn't win the titles. Bryan already held the titles as part of a dysfunctional team. Only reason I can see for this match being setup is for Orton to finally turn. 

Oh, and Bryan/Rollins was at least ***1/2. Great work from those guys.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

This Cena/Ryback feud will be mocked for years to come.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

The 3 Stages From Hell or whatever it's called seems too forced. I don't know, to me, it's just got too much gimmicks for one match.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Sids_chickenleg said:


> The 3 Stages From Hell or whatever it's called seems too forced. I don't know, to me, it's just got too much gimmicks for one match.


It's because the stipulations themselves are shit. They could have gone with a fucking Chairs Match and it would be better.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would have preferred single match, street fight and then cage or ladder if they're gonna do something like that. Have it gradually go up and none of these lame stipulations.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

God, RAW was so up and down. Boggles my mind how WWE can have things so good like Danielson vs Shield stuff and then everything else be the absolute worth crap around. 

Kaitlyn segment & Trips/Vince GARBAGE makes me want to never watch pro wrestling ever again. Ughhhh.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not the fact that the Trips/Vince/Steph segment was BAD, but rather that it led to fucking NOTHING.

ANYWHOWAYS... There needs to be a Mark Henry Comp out there somewhere for me to buy. THAT'S WHAT I DO ... NEED!

But fuck Wrestling tonight, just gonna watch South Park until this high wears off and I'm not all buzzed like a bee and shit.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Dosen't anyone get pissed off, when someone says "Oh, don't give into WWE propaganda and unwilling promotion of it, it was shit" of a certain match. I mean it's opinion, after all.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm still marking out over that Rey Vs Henry finish.

The actual fuck.

:henry1


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fuck it; I am watching more Mark Henry matches.

Mark Henry v. Sheamus (Maia Revenge Tour, Bologna)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjFSr0Khhfc
Henry hasn't totally the felt same since the Chamber PPV, but he's still going to trash talk and eat moves as good as anyone in the company. The early strength stuff was cool and even if I didn't like Henry trying to leave, this was a pretty fun match overall. I'm not too high on nerve-hold Henry, though. Reminds of his bearhug days in 2007. Hearing the Italian crowd chant 'Sexual Chocolate' and 'Sheamus' (they pronounced it Shee-mooss) was really something else.

Mark Henry v. Zack Ryder (Turkey, might be 2/23/13)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiPLyJAPizk
Ryder got a surprising amount of shit in here. He even hit his leg-drop finisher thingy (which Henry sold masterfully), and may have actually got most of the match. I was perfectly fine with that, because (A) Henry selling is awesome and (B) Zack getting so much offense in and not being able to put away really puts Henry’s offense over huge. Henry hit minimal shit in this and came out with a clean victory. Also, Henry isn’t really a terribly stiff worker by any means (he’s probably afraid he’ll actually kill someone), but his stuff always looks really great, and it might look even better when you have Turkish dude wobbling a handheld camera around as your source of footage. 

Mark Henry v. The Big Show (Birmingham, England - hisotryofwwe.com says 11/7/11)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuoBPYdmKI4
There are kids talking annoyingly, the dude working the camera is too far from the ring and doesn’t do a good job shooting this, but what is seen is really enjoyable. The first few minutes are all about Show out-powering Henry and Henry rolling out to the ring with the stalling count-outs. Mark does an AMAZING sell of a throw off of a collar/elbow tie up; just flings his enormous body and flies into the bottom of the ropes. Henry fakes ‘trying to leave’ so Show will go after him, so he sends Show into the steps/post and now Show is the on being counted out. Henry in control is good for what we see, but the lights kind of make it look like a giant shiny blob in the ring and I’m counting on the irritating kids telling me what’s going on. Henry and Show have a pretty great kneeling punch/palm war, though, and Show’s flash spear and later flash chokeslam were really cool. Man I hope there was a clearer shot of this. I know there’s at least one other Show/Henry handheld, might be the same one from a different angle.

Mark Henry v. The Big Show (Gdansk, Poland – historyofwwe says 11/11/11)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCzbd-9wfSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c-2sP79bF0
Pretty sure this isn’t the one I had in mind. Part 1’s end and part 2’s beginning don’t match, so this isn’t full. The beginning has Henry stalling so he can stretch and warm up with the ropes, and when he’s ready Show mocks him by going ‘wait’, and doing jumping jacks. We skip to part two where Henry uses a chop-block-spear thing to take out Show’s leg and start dropping elbows on it. They have their usual double clothesline spot and then have another kneeling punch war. Finish run with both guys kicking out of each others’ finishers was good. This has the same chair DQ finish that the England match had….and like the England match I wish there was another taped version of it. Show was holding his ribs from what I saw and I WANT TO KNOW WHY. Somebody scour the Earth and find all of the matches these two had in 2011. In full.

More to come later.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

How the hell do these two not get mic time on a weekly basis?

"Tamina, wait, I got us reservations at McDonalds!" :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mark Henry returns next week. Elation was at an all time high.

That's what he does.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, I forgot about that.

I'm really curious what they'll do with him but it'll be fresh after a PPV so the options are endless.

Cena/Henry pls.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm happy Henry is coming back, but i want the damn Wyatt Famliy already  or give me a timeframe.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Brye said:


> How the hell do these two not get mic time on a weekly basis?
> 
> "Tamina, wait, I got us reservations at McDonalds!" :lmao


They should form a stable with their buddy Mark Henry. WWE has already acknowledged on-screen that the three are friends and work out together. It would give the PTP some legitimacy and Henry something to DO :henry1


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Personalities don't mesh. Henry doesn't need to be with anyone. Only demolishing people they way he's been doing since 2011. That's where the money is.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That's what they said about Rocky Maivia and The NOD


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Bryan Danielson botched? The fuck outta here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That comparison makes no sense.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

It makes total sense if you knew what Rocky Maivia was all about prior to joining The NOD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

How does a bland babyface fans were sick of seeing joining a dangerous gang like faction mean the same thing as a monster who demolishes people all on his own joining up with two charismatic dudes?

Absolutely nothing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Mark Henry returns next week. Elation was at an all time high.
> 
> That's what he does.


I have my expectations as low as possible so they don't disappoint me again. I miss the days when 'go into everything with no expectations' was my motto.


MORE HENRY:

Mark Henry/Randy Orton/Ric Flair v. Goldberg/Shawn Michaels (Raw, late 2003)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy31Ihp3dj4
Michaels randomly going after Henry who was on the apron was bizarre. I’m positive they weren’t in a feud or anything, so why did he ignore Orton to take stabs at Henry? Michaels eventually plays FIP and the three heels do a good job of working over him before Goldberg gets his hot tag. Man, I never mention this, but I kinda love Ric Flair’s punches. The video quality wasn’t good so that could help make them look stiffer, but I just love Ric Flair’s punches. Goldberg’s hot tag and mauling session was fun, and remember when I said nobody really ate Goldberg’s spear the way I wanted it to be eaten? Well….meet Mark Henry. Goldberg also gives him the jackhammer. 

Mark Henry v. Booker T (Raw 11/17/03)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVanE1-YZyo
Well I thought this was awesome. Booker starts by chopping the sweat off of Henry’s chest and trying to get an early advantage. That obviously leads to Henry cutting him off a few times before Booker tries the sleeper. Great sleeper segment where Henry winds up on is knees but does this primal yell to get back up with Booker still on his back. Henry gets to work on top for a bit with neck holds and bodyslams and Irish whips which Book bumps big for. They hit a hot finish run with Henry kicking out of the scissor kick and then being flabbergasted when Booker kicks out of his WSS. There’s a great roll up from the turnbuckle and a dropkick by Book in there, too. Mark flies back on that dropkick HARD and his head hits the mat. Maaaaan this was a blast.

Mark Henry v. Shawn Michaels (Raw, 2003)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXVWu-K8_QE
This was fucking awesome, too, and probably one of my favourite Michaels matches of the 2000s. I thought Shawn himself ranged from pretty good to pretty crap in this. On one hand he’d bump big for Henry and make his stuff look pretty great. Flinging himself, shooting toward the ground on the clubs, leaningback big time on the punches, all good shit. On the other hand his offense was kind of rubbish so when Henry returned the favour and bumped big (ish) for him, it didn’t feel legit at all. There was one boot from Michaels where Henry springs backward and looked a little ridiculous. Shawn’s ‘get out of the bearhug’ moment was also pretty lame. Henry did an awesome pin where he leaned over during the bearhug so Michaels’ shoulders touched the ground. There was another awesome spot where Michaels goes for a tornado DDT and Henry swings around and chucks him back onto the top of the rope. Michaels kicking Henry’s leg and Henry wanting to create space just by swinging his massive fucking arm anywhere was terrific. Also, he sold the superkick like a fucking champion. Another awesome Henry performance. Yeah…….I’m positive of it now. Fuck ‘maybe’, fuck ‘possibly’, fuck ‘he might be’, and fuck all of it. Mark Henry was the best wrestler on the Raw brand in 2003.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry vs Booker from Armageddon '03 was legit my favorite match on that show when I watched it a few months ago and that one wasn't exactly 100% pretty either. Still good though. Got high hopes that RAW match you watched was even better.

Goldberg hot tag cleaning house ending with Henry sounds :mark: 

wait, didn't they have a match vs each other?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Henry vs Booker from Armageddon '03 was legit my favorite match on that show when I watched it a few months ago and that one wasn't exactly 100% pretty either. Still good though. Got high hopes that RAW match you watched was even better.
> 
> Goldberg hot tag cleaning house ending with Henry sounds :mark:
> 
> wait, didn't they have a match vs each other?


Probably not as good as the Armageddon match. PROBABLY. I watched that for the hell of it last year and thought it was damn good. 2009 me gave it *3/4 or some such bullshit. Fucking idiot. :mark: They have a good street fight the week after the match I just talked about, too. Good feud.

Henry/Goldberg was taken down from youtube, I think, but yeah, IMO it's awesome. Maybe Raw MOTY for 03. They may have had two matches, I'm not positive (_please please please please_).

Added links to the matches, fwiw.


EDIT-     http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7...s-mark-henry_sport?search_algo=2#.UbbctPnI2vZ


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gonna have to watch all of those back to back to back and see which is the best. Totally forgot all about a street fight between the two. I know this is originally meant to praise Henry _(and lord knows you & I do it plenty, b/c it's justified)_ Booker around that era - which I made mention of a page or two back - was the man imo. At least, I liked him a lot in 2002 with Goldust - 2004 on RAW.

I'm not feeling THAT tired right now so once I play catch up on shitty current WWE atm, I'm heading straight onto some Henry bouts.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I dig Booker from 02-03 as well. The Goldust period is probably my favourite time in his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

omg is that the link for Goldberg vs Henry? _*clicks...*_ IT IS :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

goldberg/henry :mark;


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

The inner babyface Taker expressed at NWO 2002, against Big Show has to be one of the best ever, let alone his best. Everything from the wobbly sell stances to the bring it taunts and the ever so satisfying, final throat slash. Classic babyface stuff. The match is MOTY material, or rather SHOULD be. I'm throwing ****1/4 at it and it deserves every last scrap of that sweet, star rating.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

bryan/rollins *** 3/4

amazing match


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Bryan Danielson botched? The fuck outta here.


I don't think it was actually a botch, he just kinda threw him backwards on the Chaos Theory to setup for a kick while Rollins was on his knees. It was just a little sloppy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I fancy watching a couple of HBK's In Your House matches, notebly with Owen Hart and Davey Boy Smith, havnt seen them in years.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry is ON FIRE so far in 2006.

Two gorgeous matches with Rey Mysterio to go along with a knock down, drag out fight in the 2/10/2006 bout against The Undertaker. About to watch the Wrestlemania XXII rematch on Smackdown where The Great Khali debuts at the end of the match; pretty fucking exciting.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shawn Michaels is also " Mr. In your House" as well


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watched Bryan/Rollins again and FUCK that match had me grinning like a fool. :mark:

MMA Elbows; Rollins being a complete ASS attempting to apply the surfboard only for Bryan to escape and apply his own complete with DRAGON SLEEPER; an otherwise dull crowd going apeshit for basically everything Bryan does, especially the pin; reversed super back suplex; Enziguiri counter into single leg crab; Rollins being an ASS again mocking Bryan's kicks; YES/NO punching exchange; Chaos Theory (which wasn't as bad as people made it out to be - he just didn't get the proper arch on the German but it was fine); MR. SMALL PACKAGE.

:mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Saw what I needed to see when it comes to 2006 Henry SINGLES action; thought it was his best year up to that point by far, with seemingly ever single match he competed in ranging from good to great, with the standouts being Vs Rey X4 (YES, X4), Vs Undertaker 2/10, & Vs Benoit from 5/26.

About to hop on some 2007 Henry, starting with a Funaki squash & a fatal four way with Batista/FINLAY/Kane. That match actually sounds really fucking great.

EVERYBODY SHOULD WATCH ROLLINS/BRYAN THOUGH. TVMOTY behind the GOAT (I know, overused term but it actually applies here for me) RAW match in Cena Vs Punk.

EDIT: FORGOT TO MENTION VS LASHLEY FROM 4/28/2006. THAT ONE NEEDS TO BE WATCHED AS WELL.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Even though I knew Rollins/Bryan was coming up last night I was way too tired so had to go to bed. Busy tonight but will check it out tomorrow, not surprised it's getting praise. Was Orton/Reigns any good?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton/reign was very boring to me, crowd was completely dead and orton didn't help at all

Show/eddie sd 4/04 ****
- fun match
- show play the monster well and beat the shit out of eddie
- classic eddie finish


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Eh, not really until the end when crowd comes alive and Orton hits his VINTAGE shit. Match was mostly used as a prop for Bryan/Rollins.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok thanks, wasn't really interested in that one anyway.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> Orton/reign was very boring to me, crowd was completely dead and orton didn't help at all
> 
> Show/eddie sd 4/04 ****
> - fun match
> ...


TV MOTY
#3 WWE MOTY (behind Eddie/Bork NWO and Eddie/JBL Judgement Day)

I literally can not find a fault with the match. Absolute perfection.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't get over how incredibly retarded the WWE are for not putting the belt on Henry after Edge's injury in Mid 2007, opting to put the belt on fucking KHALI instead. I mean, the opportunity was RIGHT THERE! They could have finally had the big Henry-Batista PPV bout that they always wanted but never ever got.... Hell they could have used it as a segway to get the belt back on Taker for the Batista feud in late 2007, things didn't even need to change long term AND Khali would have never been champion.

OH. HERE'S THE SECOND MATCH OUT OF THE SEVEN MATCHES THAT HENRY WON BY TKO IN 2007.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WWE Raw 06/10/2013:

Ambrose/Kane- *3/4
Jericho/Big.E- **1/2
SinCara/Cesaro- **
Orton/Reigns- **3/4
Bryan/Rollins- ***3/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Bryan/Rollins - ***3/4*

Bryan is special. 

Rollins is awesome. 

:bryan2 :rollins


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Payback is SUCH a filler PPV.

- Cena/Ryback is ending and both men are going to move onto something else (Going to guess Sheamus/Ryback & PROBABLY Cena/Henry unless Bryan/Orton goes nowhere)

- Kane/Bryan/Orton are all temporary opponents for SHIELD.

- Punk/Jericho will likely be a one-off match

- Nothing else really interests me.

We're just waiting for something big to come out of the HHH/McMahon storyline, for Lesnar & Punk to get some big summer opponents, for Cena to get a new opponent for the title, for Bryan to explode into the main event scene, for Orton to finally go heel, for The Shield to finally have a threat take them on for the gold.

We're just waiting man.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

I was really waiting to see if Trips was going to have a match for this PPV. I find it odd that they have a big story line going on with no match for their upcoming PPV. For that, I agree with you that this PPV just seems like a lot of filler and they're just waiting for MITB or SummerSlam.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Payback = no buys. The only thing I really want to see is Orton/Bryan vs. Shield. The rest I don't really care. Filler, filler, filler.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Payback = no buys. The only thing I really want to see is Orton/Bryan vs. Shield. The rest I don't really care. Filler, filler, filler.


Same here. That match is the only one that interests me. Mainly for Orton's potential heel turn, though. But also for Bryan's ability to put on another great match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Does anybody else see a Shield/Wyatt Family confrontation once The Family debut?

Ambrose vs. Wyatt? :mark:
Rollins vs. Harper? :mark:
Reigns vs. Harper? :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RAW REALLY needs to go back to 2 hours. It's the WWE's biggest problem right now; they believe that more time = a better product. Sure, we get developed matches like yesterday's Bryan/Rollins match, but that segment was also the only segment of the entire show that I actually enjoyed, fuck the rest of it man, even HHH's segments were trash due to absolutely FUCK ALL being accomplished. It's a fucking chore to sit through nowadays since Punk isn't there having 4 or 5 segments a night tearing shit up.

The Cena/Ryback feud is TERRIBLE. It seems as if Cena isn't even trying man, this is ridiculous.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, if the tag title match gets ample time I could definitely see it stealing the show. This will be the first PPV I don't order in quite some time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Also, I'm still dumbfounded that Punk is facing Jericho in his return match. Like, wtf is the point to this? What is their beef? What a random pairing. Their feud last year has been over and done with. Makes no sense, unless I missed something due to skipping 90% of Raw the last few weeks.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

I really wouldn't be surprised if Punk doesn't show up. My only reason for this is because of the reason you just gave.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

IMO, you can tell this is another feud Cena couldn't give two fucks about.

Neither do I tbh, its awful. Cena pisses me off alot of the time, but since winning that fucking belt back, he's become more annonying and damn right unwatchable for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah it's bullshit that we're getting Punk-Jericho. I'm sure it'll be a fine match and whatnot but it seems so.... SMALL for Punk, Y'know?

IDK, it might be wishful thinking but I think we're getting Punk Vs HHH very, very, VERY soon. He'll probably be the guy who HHH NEEDS TO COME BACK AND WRASSLE FOR HIS PRIDE against at Summerslam or something. HHH Vs Punk main eventing Summerslam would be fucking EPIC, maybe they'll save it for XXX though, especially if BROCK is going to wrestle at Summerslam.

I still love me some Cena, but it seems as if he's rarely even there! It honestly feels as if there's no real "MAIN" storyline on RAW now besides the HHH stuff, which means that ONCE AGAIN, the WWE Title isn`t really the focus of the show. & it was just because Punk isn`t a big name last year, right?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah it's bullshit that we're getting Punk-Jericho. I'm sure it'll be a fine match and whatnot but it seems so.... SMALL for Punk, Y'know?
> 
> IDK, it might be wishful thinking but I think we're getting Punk Vs HHH very, very, VERY soon. He'll probably be the guy who HHH NEEDS TO COME BACK AND WRASSLE FOR HIS PRIDE against at Summerslam or something. HHH Vs Punk main eventing Summerslam would be fucking EPIC, maybe they'll save it for XXX though, especially if BROCK is going to wrestle at Summerslam.
> 
> I still love me some Cena, but it seems as if he's rarely even there! It honestly feels as if there's no real "MAIN" storyline on RAW now besides the HHH stuff, which means that ONCE AGAIN, the WWE Title isn`t really the focus of the show. & it was just because Punk isn`t a big name last year, right?


Small for Punk? LOL, you make it sound like The Rock is making his huge return at Over the Limit (or another C-level PPV) against Zack Ryder or something. What exactly is he gonna get otherwise? It's not like there's an infinite amount of mega-stars WWE have to waste on Punk. He's already faced everyone of them except Lesnar so you might as well accept that his 'star' is only gonna go down from this point on.

And yeah, it feels like there's no purpose to anything. They truly are on autopilot mode with some of the booking. I'm not critical of Ryback and Cena like most others but I truly couldn't give a fuck less about this feud. It feels so meaningless and just there. Face Cena at this point is so boring, I hate to beat a dead horse but the only thing that can make him interesting again is a heel turn. Surely WWE realize that any interest in him is slowly fading? I don't see the same passion from the casuals and smarks don't really bother with him as much anymore either. In fact, putting him against another IWC villain has also killed the unique element Cena's matches have (passionate, split crowd).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuck Raw. Fuck everything. I have the ability to control what I watch when it comes to WWE. Raw is pretty good from where I'm sitting right now. It's also only about an hour/hour thirty mins long. I cut out the shit and stick to the good stuff. 

:vince5 :HHH2 :bryan2 :ambrose :rollins :reigns and occasionally :cena2.

Also :rock4 :taker :brock when they're around.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What I meant by "Too small for Punk" was less of a knock on Jericho and more of an insult to the creative team. There's absolutely ZERO reason for Punk to come back against Jericho as it would, well... make no fucking sense. I'd much rather Punk no show that match and interfere in another TBH, it would be a much bigger deal if HHH had a match with Curtis Axel only for a returning Punk to come back and cost HHH the bout, setting up a big feud for Punk. Why couldn't it have been Sheamus? Is it because the Chicago crowd would have fucking EATEN SHEAMUS ALIVE if Punk & Sheamus ever had a match in Chicago? Methinksso.

Heel Punk Vs Face Bryan is a HUGE potential feud as well.

Let's face it, there are only four faces at MOST that mean fuck all to the fans at this point (not including HHH); Cena (who Punk has feuded with on and off for a billion years and will no doubt feud with again sometime down the road, probably not until a big PPV sometime in the November - March region), Orton (who looks to be turning heel at this point), Sheamus, & Danielson to an extent if they can capitalize on his momentum. Sheamus & Danielson are the only two at this point who are big enough to have a long term feud with Punk.

ANYWHOWAYS, the early ECW Matches between Punk and Henry are GOOD. Nothing compared to their 2012 greatness, but good nonetheless.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Starbuck, those guys have me watching Smackdown which I hardly ever did. But yeah I don't watch Raw live so I can fast forward to the stuff I want to watch.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

This is amazing; it's almost like you can see the minor improvements in Henry's in-ring game every single time he goes out there. His work in 2006 exceeded his 2007 work and what I've seen so far of 2008 (I'm not that far into it), but with the Dreamer & Hardy stuff coming up I think I'll beg to differ. What astounds me is the sheer lack of PPV matches Henry has competed in during 2006-2008 despite being active a majority of the time, was it a lack of confidence in him from the company?

I've watched 24 Henry Matches, & a match with HHH is next... Might as well watch it and then take a break .


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWE Smackdown 08/15/2002 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit 

This was just the normal Benoit/Rock AWESOMENESS! The chemistry is just off the charts. Benoit wasn't in "KILL, KILL, KILL" mode here he wrestled a slower and more methodical pace, like he just wanted to make it last for as long as possible. But Rock kept cutting him off with maybe 3/4 moves of awesome energy comebacks but Benoit would hit a huge suplex, backbreakers and take over. Benoit did decide to work the arm tonight with was nice as he said in an interview earlier he wanted to make him tap. But that didn't last long I think he only got in an arm bar but Rock got out of it. He even busted out the FLYING HEADBUTT the first time he's used it since he's been back :mark: Late in the match they do some really good back and forth, wrestling and had some real nice counters. The match ends when Benoit knocks down Rock with a running back elbow to the jaw, but he NO-SELLS it and kips up to his feet and hits a Spinebuster and goes for the people's elbow but Lesnar comes out. And Rock jumps out of the ring and has a faceoff with BROCK! This allows Benoit to attack him from behind and roll him into the ring, and apply the Crossface, but now Rock got the ropes. (AWESOME PLAY OFF THE MATCH 2 WEEKS AGO) Benoit gives him some violent elbows but Rock recovers and hits the Rock Bottom for the win, fuckin' awesome 11 minute match. ***3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Benoit/Rock match rules. Not as good as their Fully Loaded classic but it's another great match between them.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Does anybody else see a Shield/Wyatt Family confrontation once The Family debut?
> 
> Ambrose vs. Wyatt? :mark:
> Rollins vs. Harper? :mark:
> Reigns vs. Harper? :mark:


That would interest me big time. Really excited for Wyatt's debut, his mic skills are off the chart. Really original character too. I've seen his NXT stuff (apart from the Jericho match annoyingly, if anyone can point me towards it that would be great) but most of his matches have been squashes, though very entertaining ones. If booked right the Wyatt Family can be just as big as The Shield, easily. Even though WWE seems to hate heel vs heel clashes, a Shield/Wyatt Family feud would be awesome if a lot of time and care was put into it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH Vs Curtis Axel starts off Raw. I die a little inside.

Yey match over.

Dammit restarted.

Yey match over.

DAMMIT RESTARTED. 60 MINUTE IRON MAN MATCH? *shoots self*















































































Yey match ended straight away. Thank fuck for Vince. 

Mmmmm Stephanie.

LOL great acting.

So does Steph call HHH Paul or Hunter irl? Because she gets confused and calls him both in about 30 seconds.

Kane Vs Ambrose :mark:.

OMG ORTON IS WATCHING THIS MATCH ON THE WWE APP!!! I'M WATCHING THIS MATCH TOO, BUT THEY DON'T SHOW ME WATCHING IT ON THE WWE APP. NO DOUBT ITS COS I'M GINGER.

Kane's uppercuts are awesome. Ambrose is awesome. Ambrose taking Kane's uppercuts is super awesome. Ambrosome. Dean Ambrosome.

DANIEL BRYAN~! BRYAN'S GONNA KILL YOU. BRYAN'S GONNA KILL YOU. BRYAN'S GONNA KILL YOU.

:lmao Sheamus/Sandow is the PPV pre-show match? 

WWE APP VOTE! YOU CAN DECIDE BRYAN'S OPPONENT! I CAN'T BECAUSE THEY ARE CUNTS AND WON'T LET ME VOTE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A SMART PHONE WITH APPS AND SHIT. DOES THAT MAKE MY PHONE STUPID? THAT'S NOT NICE. BE A STAR WWE.

BRYAN VS ROLLINS :mark:

:lmao at Kane's face when Vickie announces that Orton and Bryan get a tag title shot. Poor Kane. Or not! He gets a US title match .

KANE HUGS VICKIE. So he IS still evil.

Speaking of evil, its the Jiz. His shirt says "haters wanted". Guess he finally realised its all he's gonna get. Jiz Vs Cody? Barrett on commentary? Better go to bed before my head smashes on the keyboabsuygduifhuisdfhguinbjfngljb...

PAUL HEYMAN. FANDANGOAWAY HAS GONE AWAY FOR THE TIME BEING. YEY!

Jiz Vs Barrett Vs Curtis Axel? How the FUCK did they make a worse triple threat than Jiz/Barrett/Fandango? I didn't think it was possible. OH FUCK HE'S GONNA TALK NOW TOO. NO! THAT'S WHAT HEYMAN IS FOR. HEYMAN DAMMIT. OH SWEET JEBUS HE'S THE DULLEST FUCK EVER ON THE MIC. GO AWAY.

HYPE VIDEO FOR HENRY. BACK NEXT WEEK? :mark:

STEPHANIE. FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP.

Vince doesn't want to turn around. How odd. Ahh that's why. His tie looks terrible. GET A NEW TIE VINCE.

:lmao Vince says he does the right things for business all the time. Which explains why his ratings are in the shitter, ppv buy rates are terrible and wrestling is pretty much dead in the water compared to 15 years ago. WELL DONE VINCE.

So lots of people think that Punk isn't gonna show up at Payback, instead Heyman will be fucking around and shit and it'll lead to Punk turning face or something. And those people all thought that Curtis would be Jericho's opponent instead. Well, Curtis has a match already. So IF Punk didn't actually wrestle Jericho... would it be BROCK LESNAR? LESNAR VS JERICHO? I kinda hope Punk doesn't show up if that happens .

DOLPH ZIGGLES! Huh, I guess perhaps it'll be Ziggles Vs Jericho for the WHC then if Punk doesn't show up? AJ LEE.

Oh ok, apparently its Ziggler Vs Del Rio for the title. Didn't know that match was announced. Mainly because I don't pay attention to anything involving Del Rio. Bah. 

ZEB MANTEL~! On commentary for Sin Cara Vs Cesaro match randomly. Swagger is off TV because he has his trial or something soon right? Dumb fuck lol.

OH HEY LOOK AT ALL THAT FOOD ON THE TABLE I WONDER WHO SELLS IT AND WHAT IT IS. WHAT A GREAT WAY TO ADVERTISE SOMETHING WITHOUT BEING IN YOUR FACE.

Orton Vs Reigns. Ok. BRYAN VS ROLLINS. YEY. BRYAN IS FUCKING EPIC.

So Kaitlyn's secret admirer is finally revealed! And it's Big E. A disappointing end to a shitty storyline. Fitting. Kaitlyn has nice looking boobs in that top. What a slut. She doesn't look happy. Guess she don't like Big Black Boabbies.

Oh what a surprise it wasn't real and AJ planned the whole thing. I wish AJ would be my secret admirer.

Remote in one hand, junk food in the other... I think AJ just described my life. Except its usually my pc mouse in one hand and my cock in the other. Close enough. AJ FAP.

BRAY FUCKING WYATT. What's with the animal masks though? Creepy, yes... but I don't "get" it.

OF MY FUCKING GOD DID THAT REALLY HAPPEN? A MATCH IS BROUGHT TO US BY A FUCKING ADVERTISER? REALLY? FUCKING SERIOUSLY? 

Oh look R-Truth is back. And still black. 

STEPHANIE AGAIN. MOAR FAP.

Oh god are they really arguing over HHH Vs Curtis Axel? FUCK THAT MATCH. GROUP HUG INSTEAD. VINCE NO WANT HUG HHH? HE HUGGED BISCHOFF WAI NO HIS SON IN LAW?

Cena and Ryback do stuff and the show ends. Yawn.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Christian Louboutin said:


> WWE Smackdown 08/15/2002 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit
> 
> This was just the normal Benoit/Rock AWESOMENESS! The chemistry is just off the charts. Benoit wasn't in "KILL, KILL, KILL" mode here he wrestled a slower and more methodical pace, like he just wanted to make it last for as long as possible. But Rock kept cutting him off with maybe 3/4 moves of awesome energy comebacks but Benoit would hit a huge suplex, backbreakers and take over. Benoit did decide to work the arm tonight with was nice as he said in an interview earlier he wanted to make him tap. But that didn't last long I think he only got in an arm bar but Rock got out of it. He even busted out the FLYING HEADBUTT the first time he's used it since he's been back :mark: Late in the match they do some really good back and forth, wrestling and had some real nice counters. The match ends when Benoit knocks down Rock with a running back elbow to the jaw, but he NO-SELLS it and kips up to his feet and hits a Spinebuster and goes for the people's elbow but Lesnar comes out. And Rock jumps out of the ring and has a faceoff with BROCK! This allows Benoit to attack him from behind and roll him into the ring, and apply the Crossface, but now Rock got the ropes. (AWESOME PLAY OFF THE MATCH 2 WEEKS AGO) Benoit gives him some violent elbows but Rock recovers and hits the Rock Bottom for the win, fuckin' awesome 11 minute match. ***3/4


I remember this one. Hell there are some very underrated bouts between Rock/Benoit.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Saw what I needed to see when it comes to 2006 Henry SINGLES action; thought it was his best year up to that point by far, with seemingly ever single match he competed in ranging from good to great, with the standouts being Vs Rey X4 (YES, X4), Vs Undertaker 2/10, & Vs Benoit from 5/26.
> 
> EDIT: FORGOT TO MENTION VS LASHLEY FROM 4/28/2006. THAT ONE NEEDS TO BE WATCHED AS WELL.


Fuck yeah, he ruled in 2006 and it sucks ass he got injured (though a Batista feud probably wouldn't have been terribly good, anyway). Did you see Henry/MNM v. Taker/Angle?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Punk/Bryan OTL - ****1/2*

Love this thing. Enjoy it more every time I watch it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Fuck yeah, he ruled in 2006 and it sucks ass he got injured (though a Batista feud probably wouldn't have been terribly good, anyway). Did you see Henry/MNM v. Taker/Angle?


I've been sticking to singles matches as of right now, checking out the tags at a later time. I watched some of his Attitude Era stuff & it really wasn't for me so I started in 2002 and I've made my way ALL the way up to mid 2008 in terms of singles matches. I'm gonna go all the way to the present no matter how long it takes, then go back and fill in all the exceptional tags I've missed and the few Attitude Era Henry matches that look pleasing (there's a Shamrock match in there that I heard RULED). I've noticed that Henry kinda maybe doesn't get recognized as much because he's an elite Television worker and not really an exceptional PPV worker for whatever reason (He's had his share of awesome PPV bouts though but for whatever reason IDK he just rules TV more), maybe it's because... I have no idea.

His best opponent at this point is Rey though, they're just magic together. Him and Punk have had some really good matches as of mid 2008 as well that don't exactly match-up to the 2012 greatness but that's kind of hard to top anyways. I could talk about this for years and years and years man, this has been fucking awesome so far as it's the right mix of short squash matches and well timed awesome matches on a weekly basis.

YEAH on the Batista thing, the only Henry-Batista matches I've seen thus far are ridiculously mediocre and bleh. Not much BAD here though, there's a Big Show match in Mid 2008 which is like 6 minutes of nerve holds and bear hugs which completely sucks as well as the aforementioned Batista bout.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I want a Daniel Bryan/Dolph Ziggler World Title feud now. The matches would be epic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> TV MOTY
> #3 WWE MOTY (behind Eddie/Bork NWO and Eddie/JBL Judgement Day)
> 
> I literally can not find a fault with the match. Absolute perfection.


neither can I, just bumped it up to ****1/2 so much fun. Eddie was great that year and big show was great in the match as well. I must admit I use to be a huge big show hater, but the man truly has some gems in his career especially in 06. For someone his size he really is a great worker and I never thought I would say that

I truly commend all you guys that do these mega lists and projects. I sometimes and have the attention span of a 5 year old and it would be death for me to watch over 100+match for a project let alone rate them.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Should trademark Dean Ambrosome.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

More GOAT Raw commentary from Cal. Well done.

I'm really hoping that Mark Henry returns Monday and is put in the WWE title feud, and Ryback fucks off to something else. Wish he'd be buried away on Smackdown or something, though that show has been decent so he'd just ruin it.

I'm not sure what to think about Punk/Jericho and what they're planning. It wouldn't surprise me if Axel wins the IC title (which I think is a given anyways), then Punk no-shows and Axel defends his new title against Jericho and retains. Or, Punk still no-shows and Jericho and Heyman interact. Either way, I'm not convinced Punk shows up. Also, I think it's a foregone conclusion that Chicago goes bonkers with that music hits.

On the Punk/Trips talk earlier - I don't know if we're close to seeing that again, but I'd rather they hold off on that until Triple H is the corporate heel. Remember, the more Triple H gets fucked with and the lower his confidence goes, the closer we get to a win, and Punk shouldn't be the sacrificial lamb. AGAIN. Of course, after their last match, Punk won the title two months later and things were better.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally got done with 2006! Too tired to write a review or compile a list for matches atm, though. The list is not as stacked as 2005, though. So I think I'll go with a top 35 rather than 50.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> This is amazing; it's almost like you can see the minor improvements in Henry's in-ring game every single time he goes out there. His work in 2006 exceeded his 2007 work and what I've seen so far of 2008 (I'm not that far into it), but with the Dreamer & Hardy stuff coming up I think I'll beg to differ. What astounds me is the sheer lack of PPV matches Henry has competed in during 2006-2008 despite being active a majority of the time, was it a lack of confidence in him from the company?
> 
> I've watched 24 Henry Matches, & a match with HHH is next... Might as well watch it and then take a break .


Are you going to do a list of Mizark's best matches?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OF COURSE! There aren't many too many people if ANY who have ever comprised a "TOP IDK" list of Henry matches, so it would be nice to make an official list, but I have to watch a TON of stuff to really do justice to Henry's fantastic career (including fan cams and house show matches and everything) with a emphasis on his career as a singles competitor.

SPOILERZ: Henry Vs Hardy from 8/19/2008 is currently #1.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

YES!!!!!!

Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy (Innsbruck, Austria 9/26/08)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mCy7P7D6M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAghehflh8
No DQ. I had no choice but to have unnatural expectations for his and YES it totally met them. Hardy starts by playing off of the reception he’s getting, raising and lowering his arms to dictate the level of noise the crowd make, etc. Henry covers his ears and kicks the ropes all Eddie Guerrero style, and then later mocks Hardy, raising and lowering his arms (right before stepping on Hardy’s cheek). There was an awesome near fall where Henry kicks out by throwing Hardy off of him, and the ref had to run out of the ring to not be squished by a flying Hardy. Henry taking it to the outside and using the guardrail (plus hitting his remarkably great clubs) was really cool and Hardy is naturally willing to bump nicely for him. The ref nearly gets hit again, when Henry throws the steps into the ring and he has to back up all ‘hey, HEY, look out, HEY!’ I loved how Henry didn’t leave his feet unless Hardy used his own momentum against him – slipping from the ring post shot, and dodging the ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’. Hardy tries to capitalise on the ring post spot with a trash can, but winds up getting levelled. After ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’, Atlas gives Henry a chair which leads to an awesome spot where Hardy dodges, and Henry sends the chair into the ropes and back into his own face. Henry going down after a single ladder shot may have bee a little anti-climatic, but I didn’t totally expect him to kick out of the ladder elbow, so that kind of made up for it. Atlas comes in to help, which sets up Henry getting a completely credible near fall off of nothing more than a fist to the face. Beautiful. Finish run was really well done. Not sure this is as good as their best match together, but ‘not sure’ is he key word. This is still one of the better WWE matches I’ve seen from 2008. Other than Finlay, was there anybody in the WWE better than these two that year?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Also, I'm still dumbfounded that Punk is facing Jericho in his return match. Like, wtf is the point to this? What is their beef? What a random pairing. Their feud last year has been over and done with. Makes no sense, unless I missed something due to skipping 90% of Raw the last few weeks.


Big name. Good opponent for Punk to defeat. Random guy fans would care about with Punk's return.

yada yada yada

I'm down.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody else read the Smackdown Spoilers (going to refrain from posting them obviously)?

Friday Night Smackdown Starring Daniel Bryan. They're REALLY serious about this. Holy shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't tell me anything. Just let me celebrate.

:dancingpenguin


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well I just read em. My reaction: :|


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Is there anything worse than Lesnar/Goldberg WM XX? & is there any better 3 ways than the few HBK-HHH-Benoit matches?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I like it, honestly. I'm hoping for a long on and off rivalry b/w



Spoiler: names



Rollins and Bryan, akin to Misawa/Kawada


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: SmackDown



they wasted the Shield's first trio loss. Why not save it for a PPV, or even a built-up episode of Raw?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Spoiler: Smackdown tapings



I love how we were all trying to figure out what kind of super group would be the first ones to take down the Shield, then it's the same bunch of guys they beat just a week ago. :lol Hope the match is good.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Spoiler: Smackdown tapings
> 
> 
> 
> I love how we were all trying to figure out what kind of super group would be the first ones to take down the Shield, then it's the same bunch of guys they beat just a week ago. :lol Hope the match is good.





Spoiler: reply



That's exactly why I like it. It doesn't feel like a contrived story. We've seen these guys come close so many times only to lose b/c of some shenanigans at the last minute. I like that they didn't build towards a big loss b/c they would've lost a bunch of heat after that BIG LOSS while this random loss keeps them as dominant as always, but still beatable, while giving the rub to Byran also.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> Spoiler: reply
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly why I like it. It doesn't feel like a contrived story. We've seen these guys come close so many times only to lose b/c of some shenanigans at the last minute. I like that they didn't build towards a big loss b/c they would've lost a bunch of heat after that BIG LOSS while this random loss keeps them as dominant as always, but still beatable, while giving the rub to Byran also.





Spoiler: reply



I can see what you're saying, let's just hope this leads to bigger and better things for Bryan. Since he's been on such a roll hopefully it won't affect the credibility of the Shield, although that's ridiculous to think considering they're all champions anyway. Just don't have them lose too often now please. I imagine something's gotta go down with Bryan & Orton this Sunday, just not sure what...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You guys suck. How am I _not_ tempted to read those?

ahhhhh


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Spoiler: OMG SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!



I have nothing to add to this conversation. Just wanted to fuck with Cody some more :lol.



:brock


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Spoiler: more sd spoilers



Barrett loses... wait, is this a spoiler?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Nah. Barret loses.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHAT?????!!!??!

BARRETT LOSES!?!?!?!

JEEZ WAY TO SPOIL SMACKDOWN.

:cena5


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Curtis Axel beats Wade Barrett?

Woah, guys. Woah.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hung out with a couple friends tonight and watched the Morrison DVD.

vs CM Punk - ECW '07 - ***3/4
w/Miz vs DX - Raw '08 - ***
vs Evan Bourne - ECW '09 - **** (Awesome fucking match, imo)
vs Chris Jericho - Superstars '09 - ***1/4
vs Edge - SD '09 - ***1/2
vs CM Punk - SD '09 - ***3/4
vs Jeff Hardy - SD '09 - ****
vs Rey Mysterio - SD '09 - ****1/2

I love this set. Despite it being short, I can enjoy every match on it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Judging by the order that is the first match vs Jericho on Superstars? I think their second match was the better of the two.

Which Punk match from '09 made the set? All were great, but I've been told their final one was one of, if not the MOTY in '09. I hate myself for not owning the set yet, tbhayley. It looks like the best one disc released like ever. Morrison OWNS _(to take from a sign at ONS '08 by that TLK lad)_


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Judging by the order that is the first match vs Jericho on Superstars? I think their second match was the better of the two.
> 
> Which Punk match from '09 made the set? All were great, but I've been told their final one was one of, if not the MOTY in '09. I hate myself for not owning the set yet, tbhayley. It looks like the best one disc released like ever. Morrison OWNS _(to take from a sign at ONS '08 by that TLK lad)_


Yep, I actually think it may have been the 2nd week of the reboot of Superstars. Need to give the other a look. The one I saw was solid but nothing really wowed me.

It's the one from June, might even be the week after Punk won the title. The one where Morrison gets the surprise win. I know they have at least one, maybe two matches that year that I barely remember.

Would go nuts if they put out remastered version with Morrison/Sheamus (TLC '10), Morrison/Miz (First Raw of '11), a couple MNM matches, Morrison/Ziggler (SS '11, either this one or the one on the Raw week or two before was awesome), Morrison/Miz vs Rey/HBK (Raw '08), more Morrison/Punk, Morrison/Miz vs JWY/Moore (15 mins of Fame on ECW) and Morrison/Benjamin (JD '09 or anything from that Morrison/WGTT feud).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Yep, I actually think it may have been the 2nd week of the reboot of Superstars. Need to give the other a look. The one I saw was solid but nothing really wowed me.
> 
> It's the one from June, might even be the week after Punk won the title. The one where Morrison gets the surprise win. I know they have at least one, maybe two matches that year that I barely remember.
> 
> Would go nuts if they put out remastered version with Morrison/Sheamus (TLC '10), Morrison/Miz (First Raw of '11), a couple MNM matches, Morrison/Ziggler (SS '11, either this one or the one on the Raw week or two before was awesome), Morrison/Miz vs Rey/HBK (Raw '08), more Morrison/Punk, Morrison/Miz vs JWY/Moore (15 mins of Fame on ECW) and Morrison/Benjamin (JD '09 or anything from that Morrison/WGTT feud).


Yeah, that was their first Superstars match then. With the Shelton finish. I know I liked it, but remember feeling like they could have done so much better. Which they did come the rematch.

Figured since he won it. Their second match was the shortest one and the third happened right before SummerSlam iirc. That's the one where I made reference to. The final one Punk gets the W in.

The Morrison & Miz vs Mysterio & Michaels I made it on the Allied Powers DVD set. Their shorter rematch the following week hasn't been released yet. Wished the 15 minutes of Fame match was though. I got Morrison vs Sheamus Ladder match on DVD already so yay.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Yeah, that was their first Superstars match then. With the Shelton finish. I know I liked it, but remember feeling like they could have done so much better. Which they did come the rematch.
> 
> Figured since he won it. Their second match was the shortest one and the third happened right before SummerSlam iirc. That's the one where I made reference to. The final one Punk gets the W in.
> 
> The Morrison & Miz vs Mysterio & Michaels I made it on the Allied Powers DVD set. Their shorter rematch the following week hasn't been released yet. Wished the 15 minutes of Fame match was though. I got Morrison vs Sheamus Ladder match on DVD already so yay.


I've gotta give those Punk/Morrison matches a look tomorrow. (Y)

Shit, didn't know that was on Allied Powers set. Was actually gonna give that a look since it's cheap now. And am I crazy to think that there was a Morrison/Miz vs Mysterio/Bourne match at some point that rocked? For some reason it rings a bell. And damn, I need to scoop up the Ladder II DVD so I can have that. I don't really want the TLC '10 PPV. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More than certain you are correct. In '08 on RAW I think Morrison & Miz vs Mysterio & Bourne happened and got six minutes.

I still need Allied Powers too. Tag team wrestling set and I don't own it. That's not right. I worship tag team wrestling.

I really like TLC 2010. Perhaps I'm alone on that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> More than certain you are correct. In '08 on RAW I think Morrison & Miz vs Mysterio & Bourne happened and got six minutes.
> 
> I still need Allied Powers too. Tag team wrestling set and I don't own it. That's not right. I worship tag team wrestling.
> *
> I really like TLC 2010. Perhaps I'm alone on that.*


No, you're not. Beth & Natalya/LayCool, Morrison/Sheamus, 4-Way TLC and Cena/Barrett are all :mark: .

TLC has been increasing in quality every year. It started off OK in '09, then very good in '10, even better in '11 and just remarkably amazing last year.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Bryan/Rollins: ****1/4*

Great match. Wish they'd done this in MSG or Philly or something. The crowd would've cheered the fuck out of the match. The wrestling itself was well structured and flowed well. The few faults, Chaos Theory looked weird as fuck and Reigns just walking over to Bryan at the end like he's delivering mail instead of running at him, forcing Randy to make the save.

Please give us this rivalry.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I find the 4-Way TLC and Barrett/Cena unbearable. The whole PPV (TLC 2010) is near DUD level, in my opinion, without Sheamus/Jomo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, different tastes I guess.

Anyway, what do people here give to the Angle/Benoit Backlash and Insurrextion matches?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just watched the Rollins/Bryan match - fucking awesome. Hopefully we'll see a lot more of these two together down the line because they have great chemistry. Absolutely loved Bryan's counter into the half Boston Crab after Rollins' attempted roundhouse kick, not to mention countless other well worked counters and sequences. Crowd wasn't the best on Raw but even they got into it at certain points, Bryan's absolutely killing it right now and long may it continue. ****3/4*


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I am fucking loving Rollins recently, he's got a different edge to his character compared to the other two of the Shield, he's much more cocky. The way Rollins uses his opponents moves on themselves is just :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess this is how my current Top 10 matches of the year looks so far:

(in chronological order)
Show/ADR LMS I
ADR/Ziggler ME
Elimination Chamber match
Cena/Punk
Taker/Punk
Regal/Ohno
Dazzlers of Destruction/Shield
HHH/Lesnar Cage
Team Hell BOOM/Shield
Bryan/Rollins


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Still haven't got round to watching Team Hell BOOM/Shield as you put it but I agree with that list for the most part. Actually I haven't seen the Ziggler/ADR Main Event match either so I might watch both of those now.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Bryan vs. Rollins was good. Crowd was flat out dead though, unfortunately. I'll give it ****1/2*, on par with Jericho/Punk, but I would not put it better than Punk/Ryback TLC and Shield/Hell No & Kingston as the two TV MOTYs.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ADR/ZIGGLER ME is MUST SEE I pimp it out as much as I can and still think its top 5 from this year. I may be in the minority but my favorite shield tag this year is vs cena/hell no from may


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really liked the Super Friends/Sheild match from Elimination Chamber. One of my favorite matches this year for sure.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

top 10 of 13 so far

1) punk/cena 
2) punk/taker

than the rest I forget order

team hell boom/ shield
hell no/taker/ shield
adr/ziggler me
fella/ziggler me
cena hell no/ shield
show/adr sd lms
superfriends/shield


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Just watched Ziggler/ADR from Main Event. For the first five minutes or so I was wondering what all the hype was about and then BOOM, the match just kicks into overdrive and it's frantic from then on. Some great spots (reverse Superplex!) and Del Rio's comeback sequence after that was awesome, crowd was really into it too. A lot of believable false finishes and both men really brought it. Great match. ****1/2*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ I was going to tell you that ABH, it starts off alittle slow but when it starts to go it GOES, good match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching a lot of Eddie and Ive come to the realization that imo Hbk is the goat in-ring performer but Eddie is the GOAT worker-technical wrestler if that makes sense. He (Eddie) has moved ahead of Bret to me. Love this guy as a worker and could literally watch his matches all day long and never get bored. Im looking at some of my ratings and eddie has so many ****1/4+ matches. I probably will never do a project or list because I couldn't watch that much without giving up but if I had to do one, it would be him or Shawn


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Bryan vs. Rollins was good. Crowd was flat out dead though, unfortunately. I'll give it ****1/2*, on par with Jericho/Punk, but I would not put it better than Punk/Ryback TLC and Shield/Hell No & Kingston as the two TV MOTYs.


I know your not the biggest Bryan fan but to say that the crowd was dead during the match is a little unfair. It's the only time the crowd was alive during the whole of Raw.

I give the match ****, Bryan and Punk are the only guys you know who you get a great match out of. Rollins deserves some credit as well both guys bought a dead crowd alive.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pre-ordered the War Games DVD today, couldn't resist even though I hardly pre-order anything.

Even though Ventura's commentary is apparantly edited out of the '92 one.....


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Taker/Bret- Summerslam 1997 ****1/4*

Damn the chemistry this 2 had was incredible. Bret Hart really showed here why many consider him the best tehnical wrestler of all-time. Bret worked excellent on Taker's legs for the whole match to stop the "DeadMan" from executing one of his finishers. Oh yeah and having Shawn here as the special referee really made this match feel more special, also because this started the whole HBK/Taker feud whom lead us to the HiaC ***** match. I also loved the way Taker and Bret made us not knowing who would win, even if the whole guest referee idea was made to make Bret win but make Taker look strong, the whole match I forgot about that, those are signs of a great worked match.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

hardyorton said:


> I know your not the biggest Bryan fan but to say that the crowd was dead during the match is a little unfair. It's the only time the crowd was alive during the whole of Raw.
> 
> I give the match ****, Bryan and Punk are the only guys you know who you get a great match out of. Rollins deserves some credit as well both guys bought a dead crowd alive.


What are you talking about? I'm a big Bryan fan, have been for years. I'm just not going to be extremely biased when it comes to him, like a lot of others. The match was decent, would never put four stars on it. And there's no denying Bryan is over, but the crowd during the match certainly could have helped, as it was dead for a lot of it. But you're right, the crowd wasn't great the entire night.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I regret reading the SD spoilers because the surprise factor is gone but fuck, I marked after reading the main event result. :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

What match would you guys want to see more at MITB: CEna/Bryan or Orton/Bryan?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena/Bryan.

I'll answer that question for everybody besides probably Choke2Death .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Orton/Bryan at MITB, Cena/Bryan at Summerslam.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Orton/Bryan at MITB, Cena/Bryan at Summerslam.


Exactly.

Follow that with heel Orton vs Cena at whatever PPV follows SS.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MITB: Bryan vs. Orton, Cena vs. ??? Axel possibly
Summerslam: Bryan vs. Cena, Orton vs. Sheamus
PPV after Summerslam: Bryan vs. Orton vs. Cena Triple Threat
Next PPV: Bryan vs. Heel Punk/Ryback/Henry, Cena vs. Orton
Survivor Series: Bryan vs. Heel Punk/Henry/Ryback/Other, Team Orton vs. Team Cena

Simple, forward booking providing quality matches throughout, hopefully.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

:mark:


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yay Punk. Seriously Punk best not get turned face.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's been too long since we've seen a good HENRY SQUASH or a BROCK SMASH.

Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne Vs Finlay Triple Threat? THE FUCK IS THIS :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:.

Anywhoways I'm involved in this Fantasy Draft thing and I need votes to move onto the next round (even though my card fucking sucks). HELP ME OUT YOU FUCKERS. I HAVE VINCE RUSSO VS FLOYD MAYWEATHER IN A STEEL CAGE MATCH. CHECK IT OUT.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/games...rnate-vs-cloverleaf-voting-open-2-public.html

:henry1


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Surprised at the SD results. Definitely wasn't expecting that but you know what? I'm not even bothered. DB is the man right now. Abso-freaking-lutely. 

:yes

Orton/Bryan would be a fantastic match but Cena/Bryan is quickly becoming something of a dream match for me. I'll pay money to see it. Legit. I'd also love to see Cena/Rollins and of course, more Bryan/Rollins too. CENA/BRYAN/ROLLINS TRIPLE THREAT 8*D.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

lol, Rollins is beneath Cena and Bryan right now, so it wouldn't be possible... at least in a big match setting. They could do something like that on Raw I suppose.

But Bryan/Cena... that'll be something if they pull the trigger. Part of me wants to see the match asap and see Bryan win the strap asap to capitalize on all this momentum. I mean, he's been in the business for over 10 years, right? He's waited more than enough to have that "moment" when winning the title. On the other hand, Wrestlemania would be the perfect time to put the belt on him.

Of course, it can't be Bryan/Cena at WM30... Cena has to be open for the match with Taker.

Although, I'd be fine with this WM30 card:

Bryan vs. Cena for the title, Bryan beats Cena and becomes the top face... or Cena turns heel to beat Bryan and they hold off Bryan's eventual reign a while longer, maybe either to WM31 or SS. Either way, after a screw-job of some sort, the fan support of Bryan would make the support for him right now pale in comparison.

and...

Taker vs. Brock
Rock vs. Orton
Punk vs. HHH

I'd say that looks good. Would satisfy all the marks me thinks. Punk gets his win over HHH, Orton gets to face Rock, and we finally get to see the big Taker/Lesnar match.

Then at WM31 they could do a fully heel Cena vs. Taker, or have him go back to being face before that after he eventually loses his feud to Bryan. Either way, they could make it work and make Bryan the top face in the process if done correctly.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Bryan wins the WWE Title at Wm30 just like Benoit at WM20, exactly 10 years after. That coincidence


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'd like to see Orton/Bryan @ MitB because he won't get buried by SuperCena.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

> We’ve now had some new confirmation on the upcoming Goldberg DVD set which further indicates that WWE are going ahead with the release.
> 
> The 3-DVD/2-BD set, slated to be a match compilation, is currently scheduled for release to the UK on September 30th, release to the US on October 8th, and release to Australia on October 16th. An official synopsis and final confirmation are forthcoming.


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-goldberg-dvd-on-the-way/44078/

:mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Bryan wins the WWE Title at Wm30 just like Benoit at WM20, exactly 10 years after. That coincidence


After that, he might as well start wearing tights, black wristbands and add the Sharpshooter to his submission finishers then call himself The New Benoit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GOLDBERG DVD SET. 

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MY


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Which was the WCW PPV with the Hogan/Savage Doomsday Cage match? Was it Halloween Havoc 1995?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean Tower of Doom? Uncensored '96.

Havoc '95 was Hogan vs Giant with The Yeti showing up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> You mean Tower of Doom? Uncensored '96.
> 
> Havoc '95 was Hogan vs Giant with The Yeti showing up.


Yeah mate, that's it the Tower Of Doom, with Savage/Hogan vs The Alliance. Thanks  Always thought it was '95 lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It feels like something right out of '95. I don't blame ya for the slight misplacing of years, haha.

Hard to believe Finlay vs Regal happened on tha same show. That's WCW in a nutshell, I guess. I'll always miss that place.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So found this:



> In an interview with The Houston Chronicle, The Undertaker comments on why he continues to wrestle despite injuries and age:
> 
> “Honestly, I love it, that’s why,” Calaway said. “I’ve got 26 years in the business and all these injuries, but WrestleMania has become so huge, it’s just hard to walk away from it. I want the audience leaving the stadium going ‘Wow!’ It’s a responsibility I have being a top dog in this business. The crowd will let me know when it’s time to leave. They haven’t yet. If I didn’t perform at WrestleMania, in some strange weird way, I’d feel like I was letting Vince McMahon down.”


http://nodq.com/wwe/373090048.shtml

With this in mind, I think we may see 25-0 after all. I mean, if he can keep putting on great matches every year, I've got no complaints. I mean, you could give him Brock for 30, Cena for 31, Bryan (if he's become the top face by that point or even just the "HBK" of this gen) at 32 and then 33 he goes to 25-0 and retires, or 24-1. But I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. 

And hey, maybe after that we'll be on the road to 30-0!!! 

:taker : ... nah.

But seriously, 25-0 would be as great a number to end on as any. Quarter of 100 is definitely something.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Srdjan99 said:


> Bryan wins the WWE Title at Wm30 just like Benoit at WM20, exactly 10 years after. That coincidence


I'd mark for that! Punk would be the Eddie?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*THE YEAR OF 2006​*
*Raw:*
Another year I'm done with and lots of different stuff happened. On the positive part, Raw was thoroughly entertaining to watch throughout, specially the road to Wrestlemania and after Raw Reunion. There were lots of good feuds and even though the match quality doesn't hold a candle to that of 2005, there were still some gems all over the place. From Cena and Edge's lengthy feud to the formation of Rated RKO as well as Ric Flair and Mick Foley's summer feud. Some good stuff here and there but also some awful garbage. The DX reunion was fun for a bit but then they ran it to the ground with the same lame ass jokes and the McMahon feud went on for about half of the year. It also doesn't help that the Spirit Squad are awful and the only thing remotely entertaining about them was when DX ships them off to OVW after Survivor Series. John Cena has a pretty good year as a character here. He's hardly any different to now but here he has more edge to him and is genuinely funny a lot of the time. Plenty of good segments with him which I can't quite say for him in the past few years. Randy Orton is my guy so I'm always hooked onto everything he does but he did nothing substantial during the summer while having the Hogan feud and then was directionless in a purposeless feud with Carlito for a month before teaming up with Edge for the remainder of the year. And that was a real highlight as Edge is without a doubt the star of Raw for this year. Great heel with great mic skills always getting pretty good heat. He is not that well liked in this thread but damn was he great in 2006. It was a sweet ending to the year when Rated RKO bashed DX's skulls in with back to back con-chair-to's in the last episode. DX were the center of attention many times in the year and other than their Rated RKO feud, their non-serious, "funny" attitude was extremely childish and rarely funny. I enjoyed the episode when they took over the show and messed around with the mic, the cameras and all but more often than not, I found them painful. That male stripper inside joke was more annoying than anything. Fuck "Big Dick Johnson" and the idiot who thought this was funny. Plus why the hell is Eugene still around at this point? The gimmick was irrelevant six months after its start and they still keep him around without a repackage at least? Main event guys aside, there was an injustice with the treatment of Shelton Benjamin again. He reunites with Charlie Haas in the end but for most of the year, he struggled to get TV time and was jobbing quite a bit. They really dropped the ball here. But despite all the fuck-ups, I enjoyed Raw for the most part and consider it a decent year for the brand.

*Rating:* ★★★¼ out of ★★★★★

*ECW:*
I had some interest in the brand when it was initially started as they drafted Kurt Angle, RVD and Big Show to it. Plus Show had some solid matches in the first months but then the WWE stars stopped coming around and my interest faded almost completely. Then Angle kept getting injured and was released because of his personal problems and RVD got lost in the shuffle following his suspension. The ECW originals don't interest me in the slightest and neither do any of the "new breed" such as Test, CM Punk or Mike Knox. Even though the shows are only one hour, I skipped through nearly all of it. Just largely indifferent so I couldn't bring myself to sit through these shows that made the year a chore to go through compared to the previous years when I only had two shows to watch. I'm not a Bobby Lashley fan either, so his push in the final month didn't do much for me. Plus his voice is laughable. He really is Black Lesnar. Got great physique and muscles with lots of power and technical wrestling abilities but then as soon as they open their mouths, all the intimidation is gone! That aside, this brand also presents one of the worst PPVs ever with December to Dismember in the end.

*Rating:* ★★ out of ★★★★★

*Smackdown:*
This one is interesting. In the first few months, Smackdown was AWESOME. Every show was great, loaded with star power and great matches weekly thanks to guys like Benoit, Orton, Angle, Finlay, Mysterio, Undertaker and so on but then they keep dropping in numbers and the show really took a downfall in June and onwards. Orton got suspended then drafted to Raw, Benoit was injured, Angle went to ECW, JBL retired from wrestling and in return, Smackdown got... Chavo Guerrero? Since then, the show took a nosedive in June. Lashley and Booker T wrestled each other nearly every week and King Booker might be an entertaining gimmick but the fake accent also gets on my nerves at times. That aside, Batista's return was the most interesting part of the summer so that tells you all you need to know about that part. Shows start becoming boring with lots of filler. They thankfully drop Road Warrior Animal from the roster in the first half but then the filler keeps on coming with trash like Tatanka, The Great Khali, The Miz and Vito in drag. Unless they get in the ring with somebody interesting, these are all skip material. Only thing entertaining with The Miz's segments is hearing JBL bury the shit out of him every time. I'm not even a Miz hater but in here, you just want somebody to punch his lights out because he's so annoying. And what's the deal with Boogeyman? He beats Booker T at Wrestlemania then just disappears for months only to be brought back towards the end. On the good part, the show picks up after the summer as Undertaker becomes more active, Benoit returns and John Cena comes over a few times to have some decent tag matches. The wrestling is solid and I should also give some credit to the tag team of Paul London and Brian Kendrick as they are great together. But then the storylines are abysmal. I already mentioned Vito in a dress but the Eddie storylines are even worse. I didn't mind Orton using him for heat because he's just so good at doing his job but it was unbearable when Rey and Chavo started feuding over Eddie. Vickie and her bad acting was brought on screen and I simply couldn't stand this. Sure they had some good matches together but the storyline behind it is inexcusable and should never be spoken of again. As if that wasn't enough, Benoit returns to have this stupid storyline with Chavo and heel or not, this stupid "he's a woman beater" crap really drives me insane following that bump at Survivor Series with Vickie. If they wanted to give something with his talents a storyline, do it proper and none of this bullshit. Mr. Kennedy and Undertaker have a meaningless storyline too but there are some fun parts and the matches weren't bad. Plus MVP's debut was awesome and his feud with Kane had me rolling at times. I want to give this a better rating but all the crap and the slow summer brings it down for me a bit.

*Rating:* ★★★½ out of ★★★★★

*PPV Ranking:*
1. No Mercy
2. Judgment Day
3. No Way Out
4. Wrestlemania 22
5. Unforgiven
6. Backlash
7. Armageddon
8. SummerSlam
9. Vengeance
10. One Night Stand
11. New Year's Revolution
12. The Great American Bash
13. Royal Rumble
14. Survivor Series
15. Cyber Sunday
16. December to Dismember


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/orton breaking p ***1/4

-very character driven
-imo their best match together
- Orton's viper persona at its fines

Eddie/brock nwo ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well this is fun. Sort of his key matches all grouped in. Although I don't know why the first Glacier match was in other than it being that night where out of nowhere Goldberg seemed to be over as a face while trying to be a heel vs Mongo. 

btw, Yeah1993 the 8 minute match vs Saturn is on this. If you haven't seen it yet. So is the Raven glory, but that's all over youtube & you can see the reactions pre & post-match on there. Which means > this WWE edited BS.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm going through 2004 PPVs this week pretty fun stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Judgment Day '04 isn't even that good of a show all around yet I like watching it a ton. Can't explain it. Same with Taboo Tuesday '04. Probably has to do with me adoring each main event.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Just re watched Rey Mysterio Vs Jack Swagger MITB 2010. lol gonna use that match every time some blind hater says Swagger can't generate a reaction. Dude was getting great heat and cheers and Swagger chants through out the entire match. He missed one beat in that match, but other than that, the match was greatly worked.

Edit: The pre promo was very nicely done as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Just re watched Rey Mysterio Vs Jack Swagger MITB 2010. lol gonna use that match every time some blind hater says Swagger can't generate a reaction. Dude was getting great heat and cheers and Swagger chants through out the entire match. He missed one beat in that match, but other than that, the match was greatly worked.
> 
> Edit: The pre promo was very nicely done as well.


You don't have anything to prove. Swagger is the man. People who can look beyond "he looks goofy" know it. That's that.

Jack _"the great - I'll always eat a boot in the face every match"_ Swagger.

Bless him. oh, btw that match is friggin excellent. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, fuck people who shit all over Swagger based on the idea that "he looks goofy".

The character is there, the in-ring work is there.

Swagger > Dolph.

Yes.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Meh, he looks fucking goofy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm big on Dolph personally, but yeah, that's accurate.

Dolph should honestly be a face at this point. I really think it'll suit him better. He doesn't do much of anything to benefit being a heel. Not his fault completely. I simply think a face run could be beneficial for him. Switch Miz back. Even things out.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, agreed on Dolph being face.

As a heel worker? Dolph is one of the most overrated in the company. He's a great bumper, being often cited as his greatest attribute, which is a top quality for a babyface in the company. Dolph's control segments (unless it's a scrappy one like his NWO 12 performance against Sheamus) leave MUCH to be desired.

Dolph is fucking great, he's just not great at what he does NOW. There's a case of being in a bad situation.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't help but feel his bumping combined with his flashy offense would all benefit towards an alignment change. Well, the bumping does help as a heel too. That whole Mr. Perfect mantra of making all aspects of the face offense looking like a bomb went off. I can imagine that against someone like Cesaro or Henry and coming off really well. I thought it did vs Ryback earlier this year for what its worth. Of course, given the topic, lets flip that on its ear and see what we can get.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> You don't have anything to prove. Swagger is the man. People who can look beyond "he looks goofy" know it. That's that.
> 
> Jack _"the great - I'll always eat a boot in the face every match"_ Swagger.
> 
> Bless him. oh, btw that match is friggin excellent. (Y)


(Y)(Y)(Y)(Y)(Y) I just think people grab hard at straws just because they don''t like the guy.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah, fuck people who shit all over Swagger based on the idea that "he looks goofy".
> 
> The character is there, the in-ring work is there.
> 
> ...


I've actually ranked the dude at one point above Swagger because his mid card title reigns were solid. But he's not a good heel, he can't sell the cheers and doesn't know how to get under the skins of the people in the crowd. 

When it comes to being a real heel Swagger > Ziggler no doubt .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even if it comes into play, Swagger's looks can feed into being a > heel than Ziggler. Think about it. If it irritates people, then they'll react negative towards him in person. It all adds towards Swagger's advantage. No matter how bleh of a reason it may be.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The douche bag smile. I wonder if anybody remembers the promo he cut when he praised Texas in his home town. God bless Texas lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was that the one after he won the World Championship? Wait, no. I think it was when Smackdown first "moved" to SyFy.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Ziggler basically made his match with Brodus Clay at Extreme Rules a lot of fun with his selling. That headbutt to the chest and the crowd reaction is something I wish we could see more in the WWE. A match with Cesaro could be amazing.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> Was that the one after he won the World Championship? Wait, no. I think it was when Smackdown first "moved" to SyFy.


Yeah, when they first moved to SyFy. That headbutt was something out of a video game. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Am I the only one who's slightly disgusted at most saying Angle/Benoit from RR '03 is a classic?

Sure, it's fun, fast and technically close to perfect. But there's something in it that is missing. It feels robotic with all those submission counters, and with the high-end no-selling in there it's not too good either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh, I don't agree in the slightest, but I'm more in a disagreement with Angle vs Michaels from WM 21 being considered a "classic" in the realm of WWE.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> I'm going through 2004 PPVs this week pretty fun stuff.


Stay far away from the GAB 04 PPV. You'll thank me later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I agree...to an extent. GAB does have two matches worth seeing in Mysterio vs Chavo & Eddie vs JBL. Mysterio vs Chavo is great. One of the best from the entire year. Got to watch those ones and skip the rest of the tripe.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Watch Chavo vs. Rey though from GAB though. Best WWE Cruiserweight Championship match ever

Edit: Ninja'd :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best WWE cruiserweight championship match ever. Hmm. That gets me thinking.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn - NXT 12/6/13 - *** 3/4

:mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Eh, I don't agree in the slightest, but I'm more in a disagreement with Angle vs Michaels from WM 21 being considered a "classic" in the realm of WWE.


To be fair, Angle/HBK does have more for it than Angle/Benoit - a terrific atmosphere, a legit big match feel, HBK's crisp selling and some really cool storytelling like the beggining with HBK trying to humilliate Angle by outwrestling him on the mat. Is it 5 stars? Hell no. It was still mostly a spotfest with plenty of Angle shenanigans. But it's certainly better than Angle/Benoit.

I guess ATF's gonna ATF with this opinion.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I found a Dailymotion link of NXT 12/06 and it seemingly skips a chunk of action toward the beginning of the Zayne/Cesaro match when Cesaro is beating the tar out of Sami. Anyone know of a less shoddy link?

Edit: the video has a rather large Sky Exclusive logo in the upper right corner.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rey/Noble would be my best cruiser match in WWE. I'd have Rey/Chavo behind Chavo/Evan Bourne too (that'd count as a cruiser match, yeah?), but yeah Rey/Chavo is really, really excellent.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A dolph conversation without me ? How dare you guy :lol. You know, I think a face tutn would be HORRIBLE fpr him if he turns into another cookie cutter face. Yes its terrible for some guys also to be those faces (Punk) but it wouldn't work for ziggler at all. He comes across as a natural asshole-douche- "am better than ever one else" so well. He is the way he is currently because he has no direction, is not allowed to use his own material on the mic, and only says "show-off" 100x on raw and sd.

Only way a face turn would work is if he keeps his persona and adds the scrappy underdog ala HBK circa 96 to his game

Ziggler>Swagger- he swagger is decent in the in-ring but has zero charisma or anything interesting about him. Not ADR bad but close without Zeb


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Watching SummerSlam 2002, and about to start HHH/HBK :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> I agree...to an extent. GAB does have two matches worth seeing in Mysterio vs Chavo & Eddie vs JBL. Mysterio vs Chavo is great. One of the best from the entire year. Got to watch those ones and skip the rest of the tripe.


Alright haha JD has been pretty lackluster so far (LOL Mordecai) but 2004 is still an interesting time to go back to. Any of you guys want to share your PPV of the year and PPV match of the year? I'm curious.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Gonna put this here as some might find it relevant. It's a list of the easter eggs (hidden features) on the SilverVision WWE DVDs. Since SV are no longer selling WWE DVDs I presume that this info won't be retained once their site comes down.








Spoiler: WWE DVD easter eggs



CM Punk: Best in the World Blu-ray

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Baton
Access by: Left from Chapter 16 - The Man

Easter Egg: Valentine's Day
Access by: Right from SF20 - CMP+KKvCR+TD

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Black Maria
Access by: Right from BRE 19 - The Bus Tour

CM Punk: Best in the World DVD

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Baton
Access by: Matches Page 3 - Press Right twice from 'The Man' chapter point = Baton

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Valentine's Day
Access by: Matches Page 02, Chapter 01: CM Punk & Kofi Kingston vs. Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase - Double press Right = Easter Egg: Valentines Day

(back to top)

Big Show: A Giants World

Disc 3
Easter Egg: The End of Jeri-Show
Access by: Two left clicks from third button on Chapters Page 2 - "Hell in a Cell - 4th October, 2009"

(back to top)

WrestleFest '88 & '90

Disc 2 - WrestleFest '90
Easter Egg: Mattel Ring Advert
Access by: On Chapters Page 1 - 2 left clicks from "Brutus The Barber Beefcake vs. Rick The Model Martel"

Easter Egg: Mattel Action Figures Advert
Access by: On Chapters Page 3 - 2 right clicks from "Tag-Team Match The Ultimate Warrior & Jake The Snake Roberts vs. Akeem & Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase"

(back to top)

Ricky Steamboat: The Life Story of the Dragon

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Ricky Steamboat Anti-Drug PSA
Access by: Press right twice on Wrestlemania III Chapters page 1

(back to top)

Undertaker's Deadliest Matches

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Kama Mustafa Story
Access by: Press left twice from SummerSlam August 27, 1995 on Chapters page 1

Easter Egg: King Mabel Story
Access by: Press left twice from In Your House December 17, 1995 on Chapters page 1

(back to top)

Hart & Soul: The Hart Family Anthology

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Owen Slammy Acceptance Speech
Access by: Press right twice from Owen The Prankster on Special Features Menu

(back to top)

Best of Raw 2009

Disc 1
Easter Egg: HHH & Batista Dance
Access by: Press left twice from April Highlights on Chapter Menu 2

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Fans Package
Access by: Press left twice from RAW Celebrity Guest Hosts on Chapter Menu 2

Disc 3
Easter Egg: DX Chop
Access by: Press left twice from Batista vs. Randy Orton on Chapter Menu 1

(back to top)

Jeff Hardy: My Life, My Rules

Disc 1
Easter Egg: These Boots Were Made For... Extreme Rules
Access by: Go to "Brother vs. Brother" and click left 2 times.

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Art Critic - Raw, September 11 2006
Access by: Go to "Raw, October 2, 2006" and click left 2 times.

Easter Egg: And the Slammy Goes To... - Raw, December 8, 2008
Access by: Go to "Raw, January 14, 2008" and click left 2 times.

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Jeff Interrupts The Undertaker - SmackDown!, November 14 2008
Access by: Go to "SmackDown! 14 November, 2008" and click left 2 times.

(back to top)

The Greatest Stars of the 90s

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Sunny PSA
Access by: Go to Chapter Slide 1: Highlight Women of the 90s and click right 2 times.

Easter Egg: Road Warrior Animal tells a Stone Cold story
Access by: Go to Chapter Slide 3: Highlight Stone Cold Steve Austin and click right 2 times.

(back to top)

The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Terry Funk Talks about Wrestling Hulk Hogan
Access by: Highlight SNME 4 January, 1986 WWE Championship Match Hulk Hogan vs. Terry Funk and click left two times

Easter Egg: Paul Orndorff Chili Dog Story
Access by: Highlight SNME 3 January, 1987 Steel Cage Match Hulk Hogan vs. Mr Wonderful Paul Orndorff and click left two times

(back to top)

Starrcade: The Essential Collection

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Dusty Rhodes Promo For Starrcade 83
Access by: Three right clicks from Thanksgiving Tradition chapter point

Easter Egg: Ric Flair on the Wall of Fame
Access by: Three right clicks from A Flare For The Gold chapter point

(back to top)

The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Kanes Got Two Words For Ya!
Access by: Two right-clicks from Raw 5/4/99 WWE Tag Team Championship Match chapter point

Easter Egg: Jericho Burns Kane
Access by: Two left-clicks from Armageddon 10/12/00 Last Man Standing Match chapter point

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Kane And Shane Are Tight
Access by: Three right-clicks from Sending Him To Hell chapter point

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Chestnut Roasting In Hell
Access by: Highlight SmackDown 22/12/06 Undertaker & Kane vs. King Booker & Finlay and left click, right click, left click and right click

Easter Egg: Kane And Litas Awkward Reunion
Access by: Three right-clicks from Pain and Torture chapter point

(back to top)

Viva La Raza! The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Eddie begs Chyna for Forgiveness
Access by: four right clicks from Chris Jericho- Latino Heat chapter point

Easter Egg: Eddie & Chavo before a Match
Access by: four left clicks from Chavo Guerrero- Los Guerreros chapter point

(back to top)

The History of the Intercontinental Championship

Disc 1
Easter Egg: WWE Superstars discuss the Intercontinental Championship (Confidential, October 19th 2002)
Access by: two left clicks from The Inaugural Champion

(back to top)

The Life and Times of Mr. Perfect

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Curt AWA Interview mentions Wade Boggs
Access by: two left clicks from Mr. Perfect chapter point

Easter Egg: Old Man Mask
Access by: one left click and two right clicks from The Prankster chapter point

Easter Egg: Thunder, 1st July 1999 Rap Is Crap Live Performance
Access by: two right clicks from Rap Is Crap music video extra

Easter Egg: Chris Jericho story- smoke bomb
Access by: two right clicks from Curt Loved Karaoke extra

Easter Egg: Joey Styles- Stamford High
Access by: two left clicks from Basketball Vignette, 15th October 1988 extra

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Smashing the WWE Championship Belt
Access by: one right click and two left clicks from Hulk Hogan match

(back to top)

Nature Boy Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Boarding School Heaven
Access by: two left clicks from beginnings

Easter Egg: George Woodin
Access by: two left clicks from plane crash

(back to top)

Twist of Fate: The Matt and Jeff Hardy Story

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Matts feud with the Undertaker
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Mattitude

Easter Egg: Toast to the Core Group
Access by: two left clicks from extras chapter point Tag Team Title Match: The Hardy Boyz vs. The Serial Thrillaz

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Virusters vs. Aluminummies
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Imagination

Easter Egg: Jeff bulldozes his studio
Access by: two left clicks from extras chapter point Singles Release

(back to top)

Triple H: King of Kings

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Hunter Hearst Helmsley Vignette
Access by: two left clicks from chapter point Raw 22nd May 1995 Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. John Crystal

Disc 2
Easter Egg: We Can Re-Build Him Vignette
Access by: two left clicks from chapter point Whats Left to Accomplish?

(back to top)

WWE Live in the UK: October 2007

Disc 2
Easter Egg: UK fan comments
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point, The Miz vs. John Morrison

(back to top)

The Triumph & Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Fritz on TV
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Fritz Von Erich

Easter Egg: Why Kevin wrestles barefoot
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point The Boys

Easter Egg: WCCW Logo
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Innovative Television

Easter Egg: How WCCW got its name
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Young Superstars

Easter Egg: Garvin on being Davids Servant
Access by: two right clicks from extras chapter point David Von Erich Valet for the Day

(back to top)

Shawn Michaels Story: Heartbreak and Triumph

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Ambidextrous
Access by: Two left clicks from chapter point "Growing Up"

Easter Egg: All Star Wrestling- March 1986- Ken Resnick Interviews The Midnight Rockers
Access by: Two left clicks from chapter point "Midnight Rockers"

Easter Egg: WrestleMania X- Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon
Access by: Two left clicks from chapter point "The Ladder Match"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Backflip
Access by: Two right clicks & one left click from chapter point "WCCW 11/1/85 Shawn Michaels vs. Billy Jack Haynes"

Easter Egg: Wrestling The Rockers at MSG
Access by: Three left clicks from chapter point "MSG- 23/1/89 The Rockers vs. The Brainbusters"

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Rockers Reunion
Access by: Two right clicks from chapter point "14/3/05 The Rockers vs. La Resistance"

(back to top)

John Cena: My Life

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Cena's Springfield Football Helmet
Access by: Two right-clicks from chapter point "Military Coin Collection"

Easter Egg: Cena Interrupts Interview
Access by: Two right-clicks from chapter point "WrestleMania 21- John Cena/JBL WrestleMania Goes Hollywood Promo"

(back to top)

Live in Italy

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Superstars in Milan
Access by: two left clicks from Raw Chapter Point, WWE Diva Fashion Show

WrestleMania 23

Disc 2
Easter Egg: John Cena promo, Raw 26th March 2007
Access by: two left clicks from WrestleMania 23 Countdown: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels

(back to top)

Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen

Disc 1:
Easter Egg: Dusty Rhodes- Brainbusters
Access by: 2 left clicks from Arn and Tully leave chapter point

Easter Egg: Ric Flair turns on Sting
Access by: 2 left clicks from The Four Horsemen- 1996 chapter point

Easter Egg: Ric Flair Promo
Access by: 2 left clicks from Ric Flair The Wildest Night in the business button, in extras

Easter Egg: Tully Blanchard, Ric Flair, JJ Dillon Promo
Access by: 2 left clicks from The Four Horsemen Interviews button, in extras

Disc 2:
Easter Egg: JJ Talks About 40K Ring
Access by: 2 left clicks from J.J. Dillons Ring, in extras

(back to top)

Mick Foley- Greatest Hits and Misses- The Hardcore Edition

Disc 1:
Easter Egg: Mick jumping off roof of house
Access by: 2 right clicks from Mick & Les Thornton vs. British Bulldogs chapter button.

Disc 2:
Easter Egg: Dude Love Entrance Video
Access by: 2 left clicks from Stone Cold Steve Austin match

Easter Egg: DX Have A Bad Day video
Access by: 1 Right + 1 Left click from Triple H match.

Bonus Disc:
Easter Egg: Hardcore match vs. Edge promo
Access by: 2 Right clicks from WrestleMania Edge match chapter button

Easter Egg: One Night Stand (Mick, Edge & Lita vs. Funk, Dreamer & Beulah) promo
Access by: 2 Left clicks from Chapter button of the same match.

Easter Egg: Mick Foley shows his scar
Access by: 1 Left + 1 Right click from Ric Flair match chapter button.

(back to top)

The New and Improved DX

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Big Dick Johnson
Access by: 2 right clicks from Raw 11/6/056 DX gets revenge on Eric Bischoff

(back to top)

Roddy Piper: Born To Controversy

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Sheeps wool and the dog collar
Access by: Go to chapters; left click twice from Starrcade 1983

(back to top)

McMahon

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Outtakes - McMahon training with a chicken - training vignettes
Access by: Go to Extras; left click twice from 'VKM training package'

Easter Egg: Triple H's version of Big Show's air mattress
Access by: Go to Extras; left click twice from 'Sleeping Giant'

(back to top)

The American Dream: The Dusty Rhodes Story

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Mike Graham talks about meeting Dusty Rhodes
Access by: Go to Chapters page 1; left click twice from 'Texas Outlaws'

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Ted DiBiase talks about how Virgil got his name
Access by: Go to Extras page 1; left click twice from 'Dusty & Dustin Rhodes vs. Ted DiBiase & Virgil'

(back to top)

World's Greatest Wrestling Managers

Easter Egg: Sensational Sherri sings
Access by: Go to Chapters menu page 2; left click twice from 'Sensational Sherri'

(back to top)

Divas Do New York - The Lingerie Edition

Easter Egg: Sharmell's final answer
Access by: Go to Chapters menu; left click twice from "Sharmell"

Easter Egg: Kane the dog
Access by: Go to Chapters menu; left click twice from "Melina"

Easter Egg: Mae Young gives Eric a Bronco Buster
Access by: Go to Main menu; down click twice from "play"

(back to top)

ECW - The Most Extreme Matches

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Balls takes a flaming table in Belmar
Access by: Go to Extras menu; right click twice from "Extreme Measures: The Flaming Table"

(back to top)

Bret Hitman Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Kiwis
Access by: Go to Chapters Menu; left click twice from "Stampede Wrestling"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Real matches
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice from "Ricky Steamboat" match

Easter Egg: Hitman
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice from "Hart Foundation vs Rockers" match

Easter Egg: Best there is
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice from "British Bulldogs" match

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Music video
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice from "Diesel" match

(back to top)

Jake The Snake Roberts: Pick Your Poison

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Animal / Bundy
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; Right click twice on "Legion Of Doom"

Easter Egg: Hogan / Grizzly
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; Left click twice on "Grizzly Smith"

Easter Egg: Jake / Grizzly
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 1; Right click twice on "Growing Up"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Bob Caudle interviews Jake Roberts and Ricky Steamboat
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; Left click twice on "w/ Ricky Steamboat vs Jim Nelson & Mike Miller"

Easter Egg: Gordon Solie interviews Jake Roberts and Paul Ellering
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; Right click twice on " vs Ronnie Garvin"

Easter Egg: Scares Earthquake and Jimmy Hart with a snake after match
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; Left click twice on " vs Earthquake"

(back to top)

The Self-Destruction Of The Ultimate Warrior

Easter Egg: Destructivity vignette - newsstand
Access by: Go to Extras Page; Right click twice on "Warrior University"

Easter Egg: Destructivity vignette - the gym
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 3; Left click twice on "Name Change"

(back to top)

Tombstone - The History of the Undertaker

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Paul Bearer tells King how Kane was conceived
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click twice on "WrestleMania XIV vs Kane"

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Undertaker tells story of how his parents were killed
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; left click twice on "WrestleMania XX vs Kane"

(back to top)

The Greatest Wrestling Stars of the 80s

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Roddy Piper interview - World Wide Wrestling, 25/08/82
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click twice on "Roddy Piper"

Easter Egg: Piper promos - getting himself on the map
Access by: Go to Extras Page 3; left click twice on "Piper's Pit"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Piper on Dusty - handicapped story
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click twice on "Dusty Rhodes"

Easter Egg: Ricky Steamboat blizzard match in front of 18 people
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; left click twice on "Ricky Steamboat"

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Jimmy Snuka wins most popular wrestler of 1983 - Championship Wrestling, 03/01/84
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click three times on "Jimmy Snuka"

Easter Egg: Ultimate Challenge promo - Wrestlemnania VI, 01/04/90
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; left click three times on "Hulk Hogan"

Easter Egg: Jimmy Snuka switches managers - Championship Wrestling, 05/10/82
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click four times on "Snuka v Backlund Match"

Easter Egg: Iron Sheik post-match interview - 26/12/83
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice on "Sheik v Backlund"

Easter Egg: Hulk Hogan post-match interview - 23/01/84
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice on "Hogan v Sheik" Match

(back to top)

Viva Las Divas of the WWE

Easter Egg: Maria's favourite moment in WWE - RAW, 15/11/04
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2: right click three times on "Maria"

Easter Egg: Torrie tickles Trish during statue vignette
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2; left click three times on "Trish Stratus"

Easter Egg: Trish in lagoon: points at Coach, "Who brought him here? How did he get here?"
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 1; left click twice on "Coach with Torrie"

Easter Egg: THQ commercial Smackdown! vs RAW, Duelling Divas
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click twice on "Stacy & Torrie Video Game Commercial"

(back to top)

Tough Enough 2004

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Family to the show
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on " Joust"

Easter Egg: Justice owes Al Push ups
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 4; right click twice on "Justice Eliminated"

Easter Egg: Rodimer's face blue ink
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2; left click twice on "Al Snow's Birthday"

(back to top)

Rob Van Dam: One of a Kind

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Living Dangerously post-match interview
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2; left click twice on "Back" button

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Sabu, RVD and Bill Alfonso promo
Access by: Go to Chapters page; right click twice on "Comparing ECW & WWE"

(back to top)

The Rise and Fall of ECW

Disc 1
Easter Egg: 'Pulp Fiction' segment
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 3; left click three times on "Promos"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Public Enemy training Mikey Whipwreck in Central Park
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice on "Mikey Whipwreck vs The Sandman"

Easter Egg: RVD's scar
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click once on "Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn"

(back to top)

Cheating Death Stealing Life: The Eddie Guerrero Story

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Gobbly Gooker
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "AWA SuperClash III"

Easter Egg: ECW Showdown
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "ECW Match"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Survivor Series Match
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "Survivor Series Match"

Easter Egg: No Way Out
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "No Way Out"

Easter Egg: First Pro Match
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice on "Fighting For Honor"

Easter Egg: Tattoo
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice on "Injury"

(back to top)

Hall of Fame 2004

Disc 1
Easter Egg: No Mercy Commercial 2002 Featuring Pete Rose
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "Wrestlemania XVI"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: How Bobby Henan got the Nickname 'Weasel'
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click once on "Busch Gardens"

Easter Egg: How Greg Valentine got the Nickname 'Hammer'
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click once on "Intercontinental Championship"

(back to top)

Divas South of the Border

Easter Egg: Bloopers
Access by: On Main Menu, right click 3 times on "Extras"

Easter Egg: Lita's Sory of Changing in a Cave
Access by: Go to chapters 1; left click twice on "Lita"

Easter Egg: Molly/Gail Playing Darts
Access by: Go to chapters 2; right click on "Molly Holly"

Easter Egg: Sable Pours Water on Tazz; Smackdown 22/05/03
Access by: Go to Extras 1; left click on "Sable Invitational"

Easter Egg: Jazz Throws Jackie in the Pool
Access by: Go to Extras 2; left click 3 times on "Bra & Panties Match - Trish Stratus vs Miss Jackie"

Easter Egg: Stacy drinks Beer with Stome Cold; Raw 20/10/03
Access by: Go to Extras 3; right click twice on "Stacy Keibler"

Easter Egg: Stacy Tells Story of Victoria Tripping
Access by: Go to Extras 4; right click on "Stacy Keibler: Stuff Magazine"

(back to top)

Wrestlemania XX

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Andre the Giant vs. Big John Studd
Access by: On Main Menu, down arrow once on "Extras"

Easter Egg: Hogan Slams Andre
Access by: Go to Extras page 1; left click 3 times on "Mean Gene Okerlund"

Easter Egg: Shawn Enters
Access by: Go to Chapters page; right click twice on "Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit"

Easter Egg: Shane/Vince Garbage Can Spot
Access by: Go to Extras page 4; left click twice on "TV Promos:Wrestlemania XX"

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Razor Ramon Beats Shawn Michaels
Access by: After Special Features main page, go to "The Mania of Wrestlemania"; then left click once on "The prodigal son has returned"

Easter Egg: Rock v Hogan
Access by: After Special Features main page, left click twice on "Trivia"

Easter Egg: Steph Gets Pedigreed
Access by: After Special Features main page, go to "Wrestlemania Gallery"; go to "X8" gallery page; left click once on "Facts"

Easter Egg: Brock Misses Shooting Star Press
Access by: After Special Features main page, go to "Wrestlemania Gallery"; go to "XIX" gallery page; left click once on "Results"

(back to top)

John Cena: Word Life

Easter Egg: YJ Stinger Ad
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click twice on "Behind The Scenes"

Easter Egg: Funaki Interview
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click once on "Main Menu

Easter Egg: 2004 Resolution Rap
Access by: Go to Main Page; right click once on "The Chapters"

(back to top)

The Stone Cold Truth

Easter Egg: Portion of Flair for the Old
Access by: Go to extras page 1 WCW; left click once on "Flair for Gold"

Easter Egg: Stunning photographer
Access by: Go to extras page 1 WCW; left click once on "Stunning Steve Austin vs Beautiful Bobby Eaton"

Easter Egg: Whataburger
Access by: Go to extras page 3 WWE; right click once on "Stone Cold drinks beer, rides chair down ramp"

Easter Egg: Brother's story about Steve's car
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "Austin's truck"

(back to top)

Mick Foley's Greatest Hits and Misses

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Mick jumping off the roof of his house
Access by: Go to extras page; left click twice on main menu button

Easter Egg: Dude Love entrance video
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "Cactus Jack vs Chris Candido"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Chef Boyardee commercial
Access by: Go to chapters page; left click twice on "Shawn Michaels vs Mankind"

Easter Egg: DX have a bad day
Access by: Go to extras page; right click twice on "Birth of Mr Socko"

(back to top)

The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Ric Flair promo #1
Access by: Go to chapters page; click on "Dusty Rhodes: talking the talk"; left click once on "Flair cuts a promo"

Easter Egg: Ric Flair promo #2
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "Barry Windham: keeping up with the champ"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Ric Flair talks about dusty's ankle injury
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "main" button

Easter Egg: Promo about the Horsemen
Access by: Go to chapters page; left click once on "A day in the life of the Horsemen"

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Ric Flair cuts promo on Road Warriors and Freebirds
Access by: From main page, left click once on "play" button; WWE logo changes colour, click and play easter egg

Easter Egg: Wooo...
Access by: Go to chapters page; click on 'Celebration: A special night in Greenville'; left click twice on 'The final Nitro'

Easter egg: Video loop intended for menu windows
Access by: Go to chapters page; click on 'Celebration: A special night in Greenville'; right arrow click twice on 'main' button; beer can in Ric's hand highlights; click on beer can

(back to top)

Unforgiven 2003

Easter Egg: Unforgiven music video
Access by: From main menu, left click twice then down once from the "matches" button

(back to top)

Wrestling's Most Incredible Steel Cage Matches

Easter Egg: Snuka/Muraco confrontation
Access by: On disc 1, go to extras; right click twice on "Don Muraco vs Jimmy Snuka"

Easter Egg: Larry Zbyszko hits Bruno Sammartino with chair
Access by: Go to chapters page 1 on disc 1; right click twice on "Bruno Sammartino and Larry Zbyszko feud".

Easter Egg: Finish of Garvin vs Flair cage match
Access by: Go to chapters page 1 on disc 1; right click twice on "Ric Flair vs Ronnie Garvin".

Easter Egg: Owen Hart cage interview
Access by: Go to extras page 1 on disc 2; right click twice on "Bret Hart vs Owen Hart".

(back to top)

Trish Stratus: 100% Stratusfaction Guaranteeed

Easter Egg: Excess, sing-a-long with Saturn
Access by: Go to chapters menu; right click on "Diva Fun"

Easter Egg: Sunday Night Heat at Trish's house
Access by: Go to extras page 3; right click on "house tour"

Easter Egg: Interview bloopers
Access by: Go to extras page 4; right click on "making of..."

(back to top)

WWE From The Vault: Shawn Michaels

Easter Egg: Playboy Buddy Rose
Access by: On disc 1, go to extras page 1; left click twice from "be ready"

Easter Egg: "Sexy Boy" video
Access by: On disc 1, go to extras page 1; right click twice from "Barbershop"

Easter Egg: Shawn loses smile
Access by: On disc 2, go to extras page 2; left click twice from "photo gallery"

(back to top)

WrestleMania XIX

Easter Egg: Rock and Austin autograph-signing
Access by: Go to chapters menu on disc 2; right click from "The Rock vs Stone Cold Steve Austin"

(back to top)

Rey Mysterio 619

Easter Egg: Anthology music spot
Access by: Go to chapters menu; left click from "Who's that"

Easter Egg: He's Coming 1
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 1st extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 2
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 2nd extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 3
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 3rd extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 4
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 4th extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 5
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 5th extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 6
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 6th extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 7
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 7th extra match

(back to top)

Divas Desert Heat

Easter Egg: Stacy dancing at Raw
Access by: Go to main menu; left click from "A little extra"

Easter Egg: Torrie wants a popsicle
Access by: Go to extras page 2; left click from "Torrie vs Nidia" button

Easter Egg: Ivory slow motion
Access by: Go to extras page 3; left click from "Ivory whips it good" button

(back to top)

Raw 10th Anniversary

Easter Egg: Debut 1993
Access by: Go to "Raw retro moments" page one; right arrow click on "Monday Night Raw Debut"

Easter Egg: Raw on the roof 1995
Access by: Go to extras page; left arrow click on "The making of Raw on the roof"

Easter Egg: Raw 1996
Access by: Go to interviews page; left arrow click on "Shawn Michaels"

Easter Egg: Raw 1997
Access by: Go to "Raw retro moments" page one; left arrow click on "Vince-Bret screwed Bret"

Easter Egg:Raw 2000
Access by: Go to main menu; left arrow click on "Raw retro moments"

Easter Egg: Raw 2001
Access by: Go to main menu; left arrow click on "Interviews"

Easter Egg: Raw 2002
Access by: Go to main menu; left arrow click on "Extras"

Easter Egg: Gimmick slide show
Access by: Go to chapters page one; left arrow click on "Looked good on paper"

(back to top)

Before They Were Superstars 2

Easter Egg: John Cena as Vanilla Ice at Halloween party
Access by: Go to extras; right click on 'John Cena'

Easter Egg: Chris Jericho's Father interrupts him receiving belt
Access by: Go to extras; right click on 'Chris Jericho'

(back to top)

Divas Undressed

Easter Egg: Nidia kissing Michael Cole
Access by: Go to divas extras menu; left click from "Trish vs Terri"

Easter Egg: Backstage fight between Nidia and Torrie
Access by: Go to divas extras menu; right click from "Torrie vs Stacy"


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> Watching SummerSlam 2002, and about to start HHH/HBK :mark:


CLASSIC



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Alright haha JD has been pretty lackluster so far (LOL Mordecai) but 2004 is still an interesting time to go back to. Any of you guys want to share your PPV of the year and PPV match of the year? I'm curious.


Hmmmm, that's a tough one. '04 was such a mixed bag when it comes to PPVs and there wasn't really one at all that I'd call great. I'd have to give the edge to Wrestlemania XX due to its importance and the main event, which gets my vote for PPV MOTY. Another candidate would be Summerslam, again due to the main event and its importance to me. Orton/Foley from Backlash is a classic as well and people are gonna bring up Eddie/JBL I'm sure.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 50 MATCHES FROM 2006:*

50. Vince & Shane McMahon vs Shawn Michaels & "God" - Backlash - ★★★¼
49. King Booker vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 28/7/2006 - ★★★¼
48. Jeff Hardy vs Johnny Nitro (Ladder) - Raw 20/11/2006 - ★★★½
47. DX vs Vince & Shane McMahon - SummerSlam - ★★★½
46. Rob Van Dam vs Ric Flair vs Shelton Benjamin - Raw 20/3/2006 - ★★★½
45. Batista vs Finlay - Smackdown 8/12/2006 - ★★★½
44. Chavo Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio (I Quit) - Smackdown 20/10/2006 - ★★★½
43. Chris Benoit vs Chavo Guerrero - Smackdown 22/12/2006 - ★★★½
42. Finlay vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 8/9/2006 - ★★★½
41. John Cena vs Finlay - Smackdown 15/12/2006 - ★★★½
40. Rob Van Dam vs Hardcore Holly - ECW 26/9/2006 - ★★★½
39. John Cena vs Edge - Raw 13/2/2006 - ★★★½
38. King Booker vs Rey Mysterio - The Great American Bash - ★★★½
37. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle - Vengeance - ★★★½
36. Edge vs Rob Van Dam vs John Cena - Raw 3/7/2006 - ★★★½
35. DX vs Vince, Shane McMahon & Big Show (Hell in a Cell) - Unforgiven - ★★★½
34. Triple H vs Big Show - New Year's Revolution - ★★★½
33. Chris Benoit vs Mr. Kennedy - Smackdown 13/10/2006 - ★★★¾
32. Batista vs Finlay vs King Booker - Smackdown 1/12/2006 - ★★★¾
31. Rey Mysterio vs JBL - Judgment Day - ★★★¾
30. Big Show vs Ric Flair - ECW 11/7/2006 - ★★★¾
29. Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs MNM vs The Hardy's vs Dave Taylor & William Regal (Ladder) - Armageddon - ★★★¾
28. John Cena vs Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels vs Carlito vs Kane vs Chris Masters (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution - ★★★¾
27. Edge vs John Cena - SummerSlam - ★★★¾
26. King Booker vs Batista vs Finlay vs Bobby Lashley - No Mercy - ★★★¾
25. Undertaker vs Mr. Kennedy (Last Ride) - Armageddon - ★★★¾
24. Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs MNM - Judgment Day - ★★★¾
23. Chris Benoit vs Booker T - No Way Out - ★★★¾
22. Edge vs John Cena (Steel Cage) - Raw 2/10/2006 - ★★★¾
21. Edge vs Ric Flair (TLC) - Raw 16/1/2006 - ★★★¾
20. Rob Van Dam vs Edge - Vengeance - ★★★¾
19. Rob Van Dam vs John Cena - One Night Stand - ★★★¾
18. JBL vs Chris Benoit (Steel Cage) - Smackdown 14/4/2006 - ★★★¾
17. Edge, Lita & Mick Foley vs Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer & Beulah - One Night Stand - ★★★¾
16. Rob Van Dam vs Shelton Benjamin - Backlash - ★★★★
15. Ric Flair vs Mick Foley (I Quit) - SummerSlam - ★★★★
14. John Cena vs Edge (TLC) - Unforgiven - ★★★★
13. Edge vs Mick Foley (Hardcore) - Wrestlemania 22 - ★★★★
12. Finlay vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown 5/5/2006 - ★★★★
11. John Cena vs Triple H - Wrestlemania 22 - ★★★★
10. Chris Benoit vs Finlay - Smackdown 24/11/2006 - ★★★★
9. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - No Way Out - ★★★★
8. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown 13/1/2006 - ★★★★
7. Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - Smackdown 3/3/2006 - ★★★★
6. John Cena vs Edge vs Triple H - Backlash - ★★★★¼
5. Chris Benoit vs William Regal - No Mercy - ★★★★¼
4. Rey Mysterio vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 7/4/2006 - ★★★★¼
3. Chris Benoit vs Finlay - Judgment Day - ★★★★¼
2. Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton (No Holds Barred) - Smackdown 27/1/2006 - ★★★★½
1. Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - No Way Out - ★★★★★​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

> 28. John Cena vs Kurt Angle vs Shawn Michaels vs Carlito vs Kane vs Chris Masters (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution - ★★★¾


That's probably the highest rating I've ever seen for that, think I put it at like **.  What did you like about it?

Safe to assume Benoit was the '06 Wrestler of the Year by your rankings huh?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That's probably the highest rating I've ever seen for that, think I put it at like **.  What did you like about it?
> 
> Safe to assume Benoit was the '06 Wrestler of the Year by your rankings huh?


I mark for the chamber gimmick so I always find it easy to enjoy them. I just think the match came together pretty well going along with the gimmick and it had a great crowd. Angle, HBK and Kane being taken out early does remove at least half a star from what it could've been, though. But for what the final three was, I liked the team work and the backstabbing (no pun intended) from Carlito costing both the match.

And yeah, seems like it. 10 matches in the list and all of them singles matches unlike Edge and Cena who also have 10 but some are multi-men. Seems like that lunatic has done it again! Or maybe I'm just too much of a mark.  WOTY for 2004, 2005 and 2006 despite being away for half of the latter.

I'm surprised at how much Finlay appears too. I'm not a massive fan compared to others like WOOLCOCK but he still managed to appear 8 times. Randy Orton also deserves a shout-out. He had an impressive first half in Smackdown but the Raw draft and lack of direction for a while put him out of the race for WOTY.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So am I crazy for having never seen Taker/Angle from NWO 06?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> So am I crazy for having never seen Taker/Angle from NWO 06?


Nope, I haven't either. :$


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

You two haven't seen taker/angle NWO 06? GET. ON. THAT. SHIT. 

Personally in my top 5 greatest matches of all time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Seriously?

What was the backstory leading up to it? Why don't I know anything about this match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> So am I crazy for having never seen Taker/Angle from NWO 06?





Jack Evans 187 said:


> Nope, I haven't either. :$


C'Mon guys, you NEED to get on that shit asap, deserves all the credit in the world.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GIVE ME TIME DAMMIT!

TLK the backstory was Taker returned after Angle beat Henry at the Rumble, struck some lightning down that destroyed the ring and made Kurt fall to his knees, then Taker pointed at him.  The match was then made.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

taker/angle nwo is probably one of those classics I just don't give into as mcu has others. Its not bad just no where near ***** imo


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Seriously?
> 
> What was the backstory leading up to it? Why don't I know anything about this match?




Just a returning undertaker wanting the title. I remember the 06 rumble and Henry/Angle went on last. I was like uhhhh yeah someone is returning. I was upset though, this definitely should have happened at WM 22. Fuck Rey.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> GIVE ME TIME DAMMIT!
> 
> TLK the backstory was Taker returned after Angle beat Henry at the Rumble, struck some lightning down that destroyed the ring and made Kurt fall to his knees, then Taker pointed at him.  The match was then made.


Seriously? :lmao Standard Taker return. I ordered 06 Rumble, too. WHY THE FUCK DON'T I KNOW ABOUT THIS?!?



xdoomsayerx said:


> Just a returning undertaker wanting the title. I remember the 06 rumble and Henry/Angle went on last. I was like uhhhh yeah someone is returning. I was upset though, this definitely should have happened at WM 22. Fuck Rey.


I really don't mind the WM22 triple threat, but I agree that Rey's title win was kinda bogus.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

no TLK he is talking about a sd battle royale that angle won


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I must spread reputation before giving it to Choke2Death? FUCK.

That being said, great shit on the list for sure. My own personal WOTY from 2006 would probably be Mysterio as he was having fantastic matches week in and week out, with Orton being my runner up. Those NWO & Smackdown 4/7/2006 match would probably be both in my top five matches of 2006, dead serious. ADORE the legend killer Vs Mysterio series. 

Angle-Taker is a candidate for greatest Angle match in the WWE, ***** 1/2* from where I'm sitting at the moment. 4/7/2006 Orton Vs Mysterio might have it beaten for me though.

OH, & I wanted to watch the 2011 Hall of Pain run today, so you know what? I'm going to watch the whole damn thing in it's entirety (up until Henry gets injured of course). PROMOS AND ALL.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To me, Angle/Austin SS 2001 is his greatest match ever, though Angle/Taker comes really close.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I forgot about Angle/Austin.

Orton Vs Henry from 5/20/2011, LETS GET IT!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I must spread reputation before giving it to Choke2Death? FUCK.
> 
> That being said, great shit on the list for sure. My own personal WOTY from 2006 would probably be Mysterio as he was having fantastic matches week in and week out, with Orton being my runner up. Those NWO & Smackdown 4/7/2006 match would probably be both in my top five matches of 2006, dead serious. ADORE the legend killer Vs Mysterio series.
> 
> Angle-Taker is a candidate for greatest Angle match in the WWE, ***** 1/2* from where I'm sitting at the moment. 4/7/2006 Orton Vs Mysterio might have it beaten for me though.


So I guess you're not much of a repper since the last time I got a rep from you must have been months ago. 

Orton could have easily been #1 had he continued being on the roll he was during his first four months in Smackdown. He finished the Angle feud with some solid matches then he moved on to Hogan but that made him directionless for months since Hogan then was like The Rock/Lesnar today where you have to wait for him. Then he was in some sort of feud with Carlito and finally found direction in Rated RKO but got mostly stuck in tag team action. Some decent TV stuff there but it got nothing on his excellence in Smackdown where he even carried Orlando Jordan to a decent match early on.

And on Rey/Orton, have you seen their 2005 matches? One is from the 11/11 episode right before Eddie's death and the other is from the final Thursday Night episode in 1st of September. Both are good matches too, specially 1/9. (first ever RKO from top rope)

Also I absolutely love Rey/Orton from 7/4. That match is just soooooo good. Think I should up my rating for it as it's pure excellence. Will give it another watch with this Orton project, so we shall see where it lands there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Haven't seen them since they aired .

I'd go as far as to say that Rey-Orton from 4/7/2006 is Orton's greatest match ever. It comes down to THAT, Vs Benoit (the one on Smackdown on 2006 that's awesome, too lazy to go back a page), and MAAAAAAAYBE the Foley match. 

Speaking of MOTY's (which Rey-Orton is for me ATM), I have no idea what it would be from 2008. I'm not as high on either Edge-Taker anymore (Still AWESOME, just not OMFGAWEZUM), & not TOO high on the HBK-Jericho series. HBK-Jericho from the Bash maybe? IDK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HBK/Jericho from Judgment Day. :agree:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I rank the SummerSlam match highest from the Benoit series mainly because it's historic and a key moment in Orton's career. Otherwise, the NHB match is about as good and the 13/1 match (which is the one I think you're referring to) is up there too.

I have no idea what I'd call MOTY for 2008 either. Not sure about Edge/Taker, not as high on Jericho/HBK so most of the great stuff are on the same level and nothing is ZOMGCLASSIC so that it stands out. Cena/Orton from NWO deserves some consideration too imo.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Michaels/Flair for me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I honestly enjoyed the Judgment Day and Bash matches more than the ladder match between HBK and Jericho, but that was mostly due to Michaels' GOAT selling in the GAB match.

Game/Hardy at No Mercy is pretty nice, and yes, Cena/Orton should be in the mix.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Edge/Taker WM and HBK/Jericho ladder no mercy are tied for MOTY for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Idk WTF I'd have as my 2008 MOTY, but I know for a fact that it'd be my weakest WWE MOTY probably EVER. It would be ***** 1/4* I do believe, not a top heavy year in the slightest. AS IT STANDS OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS;

2003: Brock Lesnar Vs Chris Benoit (12/??/03, I'm terrible with dates and I have it writted down somewhere, 2-4 I think?)

2004: Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL (Judgment Day; went up a ton on the last watch while the triple threat is still AMAZING, it isn't as "DEEP" as it should be for me so this match wins out)

2005: Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 6/23.... HHH/Batista is the ultimate main event blowoff match, but this is otherworldly)

2006: Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton (Smackdown 4/7 ..... This or Angle/Taker)

2007: John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXIII ... Slam dunk pick)

2008: Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Jericho (GAB 2008 .... IDK what else to choose)

2009: The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXV ... Bumped this down much like the Mania XX triple threat because it doesn't have the "deepness" that I need for a match to be five stars, still rules)

2010: The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXVI ... This fucking rules, slam dunk)

2011: CM Punk Vs John Cena (MITB ... CLOSE between this and WM XXVII, but this wins out)

2012: Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena (Extreme Rules ... Arguably the greatest WWF/WWE match ever)


----------



## MoveMent (Oct 20, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> Michaels/Flair for me.


Agreed.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> GIVE ME TIME DAMMIT!
> 
> TLK the backstory was Taker returned after Angle beat Henry at the Rumble, struck some lightning down that destroyed the ring and made Kurt fall to his knees, then Taker pointed at him.  The match was then made.


I remember that :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

definitely hbk/flair wm24

Edit: cena/lesnar greatest wwe/f match ever ? thats high praise


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As much as I like Edge/Taker WM, I fucking love the HIAC and that is prob my favorite match of 2008, although I do love the HBK/Jericho series.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn rematch from NXT this week kicks a lot of ass, highly recommend everybody checks this out.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> Edit: cena/lesnar greatest wwe/f match ever ? thats high praise


I will truly never understand the praise it gets. Not even four stars.

But, it's massively better than the trilogy of garbage HHH/Lesnar matches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MOTY LAST 10 YEARS:

03: Angle/Lesnar SS. ****1/2

04: HHH vs HBK vs Benoit WM 20. *****

05: HBK/Angle WM 21. ****1/2

06: Angle/Taker NWO. hands down. *****

07: Cena/HBK WM 23. ****1/2

08: Edge/Taker WM and HBK/Jericho ladder match no mercy. ****1/2

09: HBK/Taker WM. *****	( I fucking LOVE Jericho/Mysterio GAB as well. ****1/2)

10: HBK/Taker WM. ****3/4

11. HHH/Taker WM. ****3/4. I'm sorry to the haters of this match, I just love it too much. Cena/Punk MITB very close ****1/2

12. Ryback/Kane/Bryan vs Shield TLC. ****1/2

13. So far it's gotta be Punk/Taker WM, but I expect it to change. Bryan/Cena will be amazing. ****1/4 for Punk/Taker.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I never understood love for cena/lesnar either. Arguably the most overrated match on this forum. ****1/4. That's my rating for it. Good match! But anything over 4 and a half stars is just overrating it IMO. 

I prefer Cena/Umaga instead.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

damn how many times did hbk/y2j have ppv matches ? I forget

no mercy
GAB
JD
unforgiven

is that it ?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena/Umaga. Now there's a match with a SHIT ending (or well, the part before the ending).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I will truly never understand the praise it gets. Not even four stars.
> 
> But, it's massively better than the trilogy of garbage HHH/Lesnar matches.


nah its a great match ***** from my last watch which was a couple months ago but not the best wwe/f match in history imo top 5-6


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Mania 19 as well for Y2J/HBK, which in my opinion, is their best PPV match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

2003: Benoit/Angle RR(CLASSIC!)

2004: Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL JD (BLOOD!)

2005: Batista vs. HHH Vengeance (STAR-MAKING!)

2006: Undertaker vs. Angle NWO (RASSLIN!)

2007: Undertaker vs. Batista WM23 (BOMBS!)

2008: Undertaker vs. Edge SS (DAT-HELL!)

2009: Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels WM25 (GOAT!)

2010: Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels WM26 (CAREER-ENDING!)

2011: CM Punk Vs John Cena MITB (BUILD!)

2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (VANILLA-MIDGETS!)

2013 (so far): Undertaker vs. CM Punk (DAT-URN!)

As far as worst one out of these, it'd be Punk/Cena MITB. Greatest would obviously be the one I put GOAT next to, Taker/HBK WM25.

DAT TAKER!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I will truly never understand the praise it gets. Not even four stars.
> 
> But, it's massively better than the trilogy of garbage HHH/Lesnar matches.


if I never have to sit through that ER crapfest again, I'll be a happy man :argh:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Mania 19 as well for Y2J/HBK


yea but the ones I listed are all the ones from 2008 right ?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> nah its a great match ***** from my last watch which was a couple months ago but not the best wwe/f match in history imo top 5-6


After (forcing myself to do so) watching it about 3 times, I can't go higher than ***3/4. 

MOTYS since 2004: 

2004: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania) - *****
2005: Batista vs. Triple H (Vengeance) - ****3/4
2006: Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (No Way Out) - ****1/2
2007: Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena (RAW) - ****1/2
2008: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho (No Mercy) - ****1/4
2009: Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Wrestlemania) - *****
2010: Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Wrestlemania) - *****
2011: CM Punk vs. John Cena (Money in the Bank) - *****
2012: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit) - ****3/4
2013: Undertaker vs. CM Punk (Wrestlemania) - ****1/2

'Taker, Michaels and Punk undisputed GOATs.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2003: Angle vs Benoit - Royal Rumble (Angle/Taker, Lesnar/Angle from SS and Benoit/Lesnar all worth a mention)
2004: Benoit vs HHH vs HBK - WM20
2005: Batista vs HHH - Vengeance
2006: Angle vs Taker - No Way Out
2007: just got started with it but so far, Umaga vs Cena - Royal Rumble
2008: no idea
2009: HBK vs Taker - WM25
2010: HBK vs Taker - WM26
2011: Punk vs Cena - MITB or Orton vs Christian - OTL (can't really decide)
2012: Lesnar vs Cena - ER


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

C2d I saw in another thread you started watching wwe in 2010 is that right ? if so do you do project to catch up on years ?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*2000:* Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Last Man Standing - Fully Loaded
*2001:* Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam
*2002:* Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker - Hell In A Cell - No Mercy
*2003:* Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show - Stretcher Match - Judgement Day
*2004:* Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL - Judgement Day
*2005:* Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 23/6
*2006:* Edge, Mick Foley and Lita vs. Tommy Dreamer, Terry Funk and Beulah
*2007:* John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - Raw ??/4
*2008:* Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair - Wrestlemania
*2009:* Jack Swagger vs. Christian - ECW 25/2
*2010:* Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (MOTY, but I don't have it as the GOAT match like many)
*2011:* John Cena vs. CM Punk - Money In The Bank
*2012:* John Cena vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules
*2013:* CM Punk vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania

:brock :cena :hbk :taker


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

let me take a shot at it 
03 Angle vs Benoit rr 03 
04 Im current watching it but atm Eddie/brock nwo
05 NYR chamber 05 (Eddie/Rey 05 is very close)
06 NO IDEA
07 hbk vs cena wm 23
08 hbk vs flair wm 24
09 hbk vs taker wm 25
10 hbk vs taker wm 26
11 cena vs punk mitb
12 cena vs lesnar er 12
13 punk vs undertaker wm 29

:hbk2 is a FUCKING machine


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> C2d I saw in another thread you started watching wwe in 2010 is that right ? if so do you do project to catch up on years ?


Yep, and for the enjoyment of it too.

EDIT: For a change, I'm in a 2013 mood right now. Gonna go through Sheamus' main event matches with Barrett and Cesaro from the past few weeks, also the Del Rio/Ziggler match I keep hearing about. And will rewatch the Punk/Rock matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Yep, and for the enjoyment of it too.


yea man no problems with that I was asking because I want to know how long does it take you ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

03 Angle vs Lesnar SS - *****
04 JBL Vs Eddie JD - ****1/2
05 Undertaker Vs Orton Armageddon - ****1/2
06 Undertaker Vs Angle NWO - ****3/4
07 Undertaker Vs Batista WM - ****1/2
08 Undertaker Vs Edge WM - ****1/2
09 Undertaker Vs HBK WM - *****
10 Undertaker Vs HBK WM - *****
11 Undertaker Vs HHH WM - ****3/4
12 CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan OTL - ****3/4
13 Undertaker Vs CM Punk WM - ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Man, we always be talkin' bout MOTY's. Here are my runner-ups:

2003- Taker/Angle SD September
2004- HBK/HHH/Benoit WM20
2005- HBK/Angle WM21
2006- Edge/Foley WM22
2007- Cena/Umaga RR 2007
2008- HBK/Jericho NM
2009- Christian/Swagger ECW Feb
2010- Undertaker/Punk SD September
2011- Orton/Christian OTL
2012- Hell No and Ryback vs. The Shield TLC
2013 (so far)- Shield vs. Daniel Bryan, Kane, and Kofi Kingston Raw 5/20


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Runner-ups:

2003: Lesnar/Angle SS
2004: Orton/Foley Backlash or Eddie/Brock NWO
2005: Elimination Chamber or Orton/Taker Arm
2006: Benoit/Orton NHB from Smackdown
2007: Batista/Taker from WM or maybe HBK/Cena Raw
Don't know about 2008, 09 or 10
2011: Orton/Christian SummerSlam
2012: Taker/HHH WM or Shield's debut



redskins25 said:


> yea man no problems with that I was asking because I want to know how long does it take you ?


Depends on myself. I blasted through 2004 and 2005 in 4 months combined (2 each) and 2003 lasted the entire previous summer. Then I started with 2006 in the start of this year and just got finished with it so that took half a year.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I need to brush up on my WWE matches. I was trying to come up with MotY for those years and realized that I have no idea what happened from 05-08 and even 03/04 i have only seen the "classics" and 2010 was very forgettable apparently.

03 - Brock/Angle - Ironman Match
04 - HBK/HHH/Benoit - WM 20
09 - HBK/Taker
11 - Cena/Punk - MitB
12 - Shield vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback - TLC
13 - Punk/Cena - 2/25


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ill get back to u guys with my runners soon but two things tand out for me

1) I cannot for the life of me name anything from 06 and thats the first year i started watch wwe, I remember the feuds, dx, cena/edge, rated rko show's ecw reign but cant name a match. Maybe it is taker/angle nwo from that year for me ? I only have it at ***3/4-4

2) Im not trying to be biased because he is my favorite. but you literally can make a case for Shawn every year he was active except for 06


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

I want to play too. 

03 Angle vs. Benoit RR 
04 HHH vs. Benoit vs. Michaels WM 
05 Angle vs. Michaels WM
06 Undertaker vs. Angle NWO
07 Undertaker vs. Batista WM 
08 Jericho vs. Michaels NM 
09 Undertaker vs. Michaels WM 
10 Undertaker vs. Michaels WM 
11 Punk vs. Cena MITB 
12 Lesnar vs. Cena ER 
13 Undertaker vs. Punk WM 

Btw C2D, your write-up on the year 2006 was fucking awesome. Enjoyed that read very much.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, this Sheamus/Barrett match from two weeks ago was surprisingly awesome. Don't know whether to give it ★★★½ or ¾. Now it's on to Sheamus/Cesaro then Ziggler/Del Rio. I'll have a good laugh afterwards watching The Rock vs Punk.



Clique said:


> Btw C2D, your write-up on the year 2006 was fucking awesome. Enjoyed that read very much.


Thanks.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Can somebody help me out finding Finlay/Benoit from SD! on 5/5/06? XWT SD! 06 pack isn't seeding, not on YT or DM either.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I attempted to watch Cesaro/Zayn from NXT but every link I came across on dailymotion had an annoying skip in the video and I feel like I'm missing small chunks of the match. Anyone have a link that doesn't have that stupid shit happening?


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Callamus said:


> 03 Angle vs Lesnar SS - *****
> 04 JBL Vs Eddie JD - ****1/2
> 05 Undertaker Vs Orton Armageddon - ****1/2
> 06 Undertaker Vs Angle NWO - ****3/4
> ...


How dare those vanilla midgets break the streak. :taker

Taker/Punk WM29 ~ ******
Bryan/Rollins Raw 6/10 ~ ****1/4*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can somebody help me out finding Finlay/Benoit from SD! on 5/5/06? XWT SD! 06 pack isn't seeding, not on YT or DM either.


Full episode is available on youtube right here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Can somebody help me out finding Finlay/Benoit from SD! on 5/5/06? XWT SD! 06 pack isn't seeding, not on YT or DM either.


I can upload it, but not 'till next week, if ya need it still.

EDIT - C2D has posted it lol.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

2003: Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar- Summerslam
2004: Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H- WrestleMania 20
2005: Triple H vs Batista- Vengeance 
2006: The Undertaker vs Kurt Angle- NO Way Out
2007: Shawn Michaels vs John Cena- RAW in London 
2008: Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels- WrestleMania 24
2009: The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels- WrestleMania 25
2010: The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels- WrestleMania 26
2011: CM Punk vs John Cena- Money in the Bank
2012: Brock Lesnar vs John Cena- Extreme Rules 2012
2013: The Undertaker vs CM Punk- WrestleMania 29


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Full episode is available on youtube right here.


thanks. i'd rep but i just did like two days ago...soon though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so I watched Shawn vs Jericho ladder 08 for the first time with no stops,skippings, and in HD.
****1/2++ :mark:
-great match, great spots
- that fall from y2j looked brutal and I though he snapped his knee for a second
- I got that "OMGZINES" feeling when watching this classic


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just watched Undertaker/Batista BL 07 LMS. ****1/4

Honestly think this was they're best match.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just finished Judgment Day 2004. Cena/Dupree was alright Booker/Taker was meh and Guerrero/JBL is awesome.. I still can't believe that blood. Do you guys know if it was just a bad blade or what? Just ridiculous.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Just finished watching the In Your House DVD, which was pretty awesome minus the latter half of the 3rd disc. Here are just some quick thoughts.

-Coked up Michaels is still the greatest thing ever.

-The Final Four match is still :mark: x 10.

-I forgot how awesome the Taker/Foley brawl was.

-Todd Pettengill is still the fucking man.

-Wish they could've done a better job with the 3rd disc after the 8-Man tag match. Like you know, Foley/Austin from Over The Edge. Seriously, who's dick do I gotta suck to get this on a recent set?

-Best match on the set was probably Michaels/Foley with the Final Four match my favorite.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Silverthorn said:


> Cena/Umaga. Now there's a match with a SHIT ending (or well, the part before the ending).


The worst thing about is they have clearly showed since then that you can clearly untie the buckle with your own hands (e.g. Punk at TLC 2011).

Two runner-ups in brackets just because I feel like it

2003: Angle v. Taker 9/3 (Lesnar v. Benoit 12/4, Eddie & Tajiri v. Team Angle 5/22)
2004: Eddie v. JBL JD (Rey v. Noble 5/1, Eddie v. Show 4/15)
2005: Eddie v. Rey 6/23 (Eddie v. Rey JD, Hardy v. Edge CAGE)
2006: Benoit v. Finlay JD (Rey v. Orton 4/7, Benoit v. Finlay 5/5)
2007: Cena v. Umaga RR (Finlay v. Hardy 6/22, Finlay v. Rey 11/9)
2008: Chavo v. Bourne 10/14 (...uhhhh Finlay v. Henry 11/4 maybe...Finlay v. Henry 9/16 and Hardy v. Henry 8/19 are up there.....I thought the Henry v. Hardy no DQ house show match I watched the other day was almost as good as anything....I should watch Hardy v. Finlay 11/11 again b/c I feel like I didn't give it the right props......Taker v. Show LMS holds up as really good but there was some shit I didn't like about it.....I need to watch Show v. Maywether again....I have no idea what else)
2009: Swagger v. Christian 2/24 (Michaels v. Taker WM, Regal v. Christian 8/25)
2010: No clue. There's too much shit and I never thought about ranking them. My guess is a Rey/Punk, Sheamus/Morrison and a Christian/McIntyre, but I seriously have no clue. I'll go on a 2010 binge watch someday.
2011: Cena v. Punk MITB (Henry v. Bryan Cage, Henry v. Orton NOC [maybe? I mean I liked that more than anyone else and I have no idea what else I could put here. I liked it more than any of the other Cena/Punks. I liked it more than the Orton/Christians....actually Cena/Rey could beat it, I'd need to watch it again. Ooooh, and that Rey/McIntyre Elimination Chamber was badass. OOOOH, and Masters v. McIntyre. I'm thinking it's Masters v. McIntyre. Hell, IDK.])
2012: Cena v. Lesnar ER (Bryan v. Sheamus ER, Bryan v. Punk OTL)



SaviorBeeRad™;19597497 said:


> Just finished Judgment Day 2004. Cena/Dupree was alright Booker/Taker was meh and Guerrero/JBL is awesome.. I still can't believe that blood. Do you guys know if it was just a bad blade or what? Just ridiculous.


Yeah, over-the-top blade job. He cut an artery in his forehead.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting my Triple H project and watched his matches with Cena (Night of Champions and Raw 2009 before Bragging Rights). I just can't bring my self to give either match ****, in fact I have them both at ***3/4. They start off almost exactly the same, with the same hip toss reversal, and Triple H ducking Cena's shoulder blocks (which I love, more so the first time), and they almost do a callback to the first match with Cena working over Trips knee, except Triple H hits a chop block, but that's it. 

No question that Trips' best work is as a heel, though he has had some pretty good babyface performances. Going to watch their WM 22 match now. Can't remember the last time I saw this one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done rewatching The Rock vs CM Punk from Royal Rumble and holy fuck, this is comedy gold. I swear I was laughing the whole way through with nearly everything they did. To everyone who took out their frustrations by ripping the match apart in here, FUCK YOU! :lmao

I just couldn't watch for one minute without bursting out laughing about something to do with the match. The slower pace got to me this time around as I bring down the rating quite a bit and it was boring in some parts. But the hatred it gets is ridiculously over the top if you ask me. At the same time, it turned this match into comedy gold to me. From Michael Cole's over the top commentary ("IT WAS THE SHIELD!!!") to the lights-out attack preceding it and every time Punk stopped Rock's momentum, I find humor in about everything done here. And it's all thanks to the assholes who love bashing this! :lol

I can only imagine how it'll be if I watch this while being high going along with the fact that I end up laughing easily on random shit like moves being performed in this match.

Now I'm going from ★★★¾ to ★★½ for this match. Nowhere near as good as I thought it was first time around but also nowhere near the disaster some love making it out to be. Will watch Elimination Chamber tomorrow but for now, this'll do.

TL/DR: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Really enjoyed Cena/Trips from WM 22, and the crowd was pretty terrific. Cheered everything Trips did and booed nearly everything did, though they cheered when Triple H tapped out. I've got it rated higher than their NOC and Raw (2009) matches.

Also watched Trips/Big Show from New Year's Revolution 2006 for the first time. Terrific heel performance from Triple and Show gets tons of credit for his selling.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RATINGZ for the last few matches mentioned:

Taker/Batista BL 07- ***3/4
Eddie/JBL JD 04- ****1/2
HBK/Jericho NM 08- ****1/4
Cena/HHH first Raw 09 match- **
Cena/HHH second Raw 09 match- ***3/4
Cena/HHH WM22- ***
Show/HHH NYR 06- ***1/4


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*







*Rhyno (c) vs Test for the WWF Hardcore title- Smackdown 6/14/01*

Rhyno's last Hardcore title defense was against Raven so now he'll have his second Hardcore title defense against Test. Rhyno makes his way to the ring. There's a Rhyno sign that says "Rhyno puts 'R' in Hardcore." Damn right he does. There's also an O'Doyle Rules sign. Nice. Anyways, Rhyno gets inside the ring and the match gets started. Test hits Rhyno with two running clotheslines and throws him out of the ring. Test tries to Irish whip Rhyno onto the barricade but Rhyno ends up throwing Test onto the barricade. Weapons are now introduced inside the ring as Rhyno throws trashcans, a trashcan lid, and signs inside the ring. Rhyno also grabs a fire extinguisher. Test grabs a trashcan lid and hits Rhyno over the head with it. Test gives him another hit with the trashcan lid but the tables now turn as Rhyno hits Test with the fire extinguisher in the stomach. Rhyno hits Test over the back with a trashcan lid and then Irish whips Test to the corner turnbuckle to give him a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno goes on the top rope but Test throws a trashcan in Rhyno's face. Test goes on the top rope and gives Rhyno a superplex onto a trashcan. Test who is in control of the match so far brings a table inside the ring. As Test gets inside the ring, Rhyno hits him over the head with a trashcan lid. Test goes to powerbomb Rhyno onto the table but Rhyno jumps off just in time and tries to hit Test with a Gore but gets hit with a clothesline from Test. Rhyno gets placed on top of the table and Test goes on the top rope, with Test giving a flying splash on Rhyno with Rhyno going through the table. Shane McMahon suddenly appears with a debuting Stacey Kiebler who looks ridiculously hot here. Stacey Kiebler walks down to the ring and gets on top of the ring apron. She distracts Rhyno with her hotness with Test throwing a trashcan into Rhyno's hands and giving him a big boot to win the match along with the Hardcore title.

This was REALLY, really fun. One of Rhyno's best Hardocre title defenses along with his Hardcore title defense against Raven at Backlash 2001 along with his Hardcore title defense against Chris Jericho on RAW Is WAR 4/30/01. Fun usage of weapons with Test and Rhyno bashing each other over the head with trashcan lids and the table spot with Test giving Rhyno a flying splash through the table. I'm not sure what the point of Shane McMahon and Stacey Kiebler interfering in the match was but Kiebler got to show off her hotness in her debut so no complaints there. Good match. *Rating: *★★★1/2


*Rhyno vs Tajiri- RAW Is WAR 6/18/01*

This match is the quarter finals to the 2001 King of the Ring tournement. William Regal is in Tajiri's corner for this match. Rhyno gives Tajiri two knife-edge chops to the chest that takes Tajiri down. Rhyno picks Tajiri up for a powerbomb but Tajiri reverses it into a Hurricanrana. Tajiri hits Rhyno with a baseball slide from outside the ring and follows it up with a springboard Moonsault. Tajiri gives Rhyno a knife-edge chop and tries to Irish whip Rhyno to the ropes but Rhyno reverses it and hits Tajiri with a spinning spinebuster. Rhyno goes for a cover but Tajiri kicks out at 2. Rhyno Irish whips Tajiri towards the ropes but Tajiri hits Rhyno with a handspring back eblow. Tajiri pins Rhyno with a roll-up but Rhyno kicks out. Tajiri gives Rhyno a swift kick to Rhyno's stomach and then applies Rhyno with an Octopus stretch. Rhyno grabs onto the ropes but Tajiri puts Rhyno in a Tarantula. Nice! Tajiri goes to hit Rhyno with another kick but Rhyno ducks out of the way and gives Tajiri a powerbomb. Rhyno goes for a Gore but Tajiri strikes him in the face with a kick. Tajiri goes on the top rope and looks for Regal's approval with Regal egging him on. Tajiri goes for a high flying move but gets hit with a Gore from Rhyno. Rhyno wins the match and advances in the King of the Ring tournement. 

This. Was. Awesome. Seriously, this is easily Rhyno's best match so far. Rhyno and Tajiri have always had great chemistry with one another and this match proves so. I can't even begin to tell you how awesome that spot was with Tajiri putting Rhyno in an Octopus stretch and following it up with a Tarantula once Rhyno grabbed onto the ropes. The finish was also awesome. Great match that should definitely get watched if you haven't already. ASAP. *Rating:* ★★★3/4 


*Rhyno & Kurt Angle vs Edge & Christian- Smackdown 6/21/01
*
This tag match was made earlier in the show. Rhyno and Edge start this one off first. Both Rhyno and Edge hammer away punches on each other with Edge taking Rhyno down with a Flapjack. Edge tags in Christian who hits Edge with a running splash in the corner turnbuckle. Christian goes to Irish whip Rhyno to the corner ropes but Rhyno reverses it and Irish whips him to the ropes with Kurt Angle kneeing Christian in the back and Rhyno giving Christian a spinning Spinebuster. Rhyno goes for a cover but Christian kicks out at 2. Rhyno tags in Kurt Angle who goes right after Christian with punches to the face. Kurt Angle puts Christian in an Angle lock but Christian grabs on to the ropes to break up the submission. Kurt Angle takes Christian down with a suplex and goes for a cover but Christian kicks out at 2. Angle tags in Rhyno who gives Christian a kick to the stomach. Rhyno Irish whips Christian to the corner turnbuckle and runs toward him but eats an elbow to the face by Christian. Christian runs toward Rhyno but Rhyno hits him with a running shoulder block. Rhyno goes up on the top rope and goes for a diving splash but misses. Christian tags in Edge for a hot tag along with Rhyno tagging in Angle with Edge and Angle now going at it. Edge takes Angle down with an Edge-O-Matic and goes for a cover but Rhyno breaks up the pin. Christian accidentally gets knocked into Edge by Rhyno with Rhyno hitting a Gore on Christian and another one on Edge. Kurt Angle pins Edge and scores the win for his team. 

This match was all about building up to the King of the Ring tournement which was the main key behind this match. Overall, it was a good tag match with Rhyno and Kurt Angle looking strong going into the King of the Ring PPV. *Rating:* ★★★


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The worst thing about is they have clearly showed since then that you can clearly untie the buckle with your own hands (e.g. Punk at TLC 2011).
> 
> Two runner-ups in brackets just because I feel like it
> 
> ...


ARE YOU ME?

seriously this is like 95% my opinion on those years. Switch out '06 _(ok, maybe not, but Benoit/Regal No Mercy & the first Finlay/Benoit match are up there. Plus, Taker matches.)_ & '08 with something else and there you go. '08 I have like five popping up atm but I'm not sure which I'd choose.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Match of the year since 2003: 

2003: Angle vs. Benoit at Royal Rumble. ★★★★★
2004: Triple H vs. Michaels vs. Benoit at WrestleMania 20. ★★★★★
2005: Batista vs. Triple H at Vengeance. ★★★★3/4
2006: Angle vs. Undertaker at No Way Out. ★★★★★
2007: Cena vs. Michaels on Raw 4/23/07. ★★★★1/2
2008: Jericho vs. Michaels at No Mercy. ★★★★1/4
2009: Undertaker vs. Michaels at WrestleMania 25. ★★★★★
2010: Undertaker vs. Michaels at WrestleMania 26. ★★★★★
2011: Cena vs. Punk at Money in the Bank. ★★★★★
2012: Punk vs. Bryan at Over the Limit. ★★★★3/4
2013: Undertaker vs. Punk at WrestleMania 29. ★★★★1/2



Choke2Death said:


> Wow, this Sheamus/Barrett match from two weeks ago was surprisingly awesome. Don't know whether to give it ★★★½ or ¾.


I'd be lying if I said I didn't/don't enjoy the Sheamus vs. Barrett series. Something about it just feels so special. No matter how many countless matches they've had against each other, they develop great matches and display their great chemistry. I find Sheamus to be one of the very few who meshes well with Barrett. I'd be thrilled to see them in an actual feud sometime. If booked right, it has the makings of a wonderful Irish vs. British style rivalry.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> ARE YOU ME?
> 
> seriously this is like 95% my opinion on those years. Switch out '06 _(ok, maybe not, but Benoit/Regal No Mercy & the first Finlay/Benoit match are up there. Plus, Taker matches.)_ & '08 with something else and there you go. '08 I have like five popping up atm but I'm not sure which I'd choose.


Mascarita Sagrada fans think alike, I s'pose. :mark:

I'm guessing you'd have Michaels/Taker for 2010?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Mascarita Sagrada fans think alike, I s'pose. :mark:
> 
> I'm guessing you'd have Michaels/Taker for 2010?


Nah, I'd probably have that be a low end for top ten at best. I like about five matches from Superstars alone more than it. Not counting a barrage of Mysterio matches vs Punk, Swagger, & McIntyre. Oh and Danielson vs Miz Night of Champions too. I love a LOT from 2010. Undertaker vs Michaels worked, but it never reached the level as 25 for me following the live experience. _(PPV, not attendance...)_


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Just pulled up a Random RAW from 2002. Turns out it was the episode HBK got fucked up in the parking lot lol. Havent seen this one in ages. Pretty funny segment looking back at it but boy was HHH an ass. Great heel. Some other noteworthy stuff....

---Looking back at it, Bradshaw's & Bubba's solo face run was pretty meh during this time. Could never get into the two of them without their teammates. (Good thing the JBL run and Bully RAY some years later proved me wrong though)

--- Pretty Good RVD/Benoit title match

--- Taker was badass, as usual but I remember this being a slight down period for the big man and I was right. The Un American feud was a so-so filler feud. This night in particular had a squash vs Chris Nowinski (What happened to him?)

--- Also had Rock vs Flair in the Main Event, which for what its worth, a very fun match. Really solidifying to me that Rock in 2002 was at his best ring wise. Far away from what he is now unfortunately. 

Pretty forgettable RAW with the exception of the main event and the HBK parking lot segment.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Nah, I'd probably have that be a low end for top ten at best. I like about five matches from Superstars alone more than it. Not counting a barrage of Mysterio matches vs Punk, Swagger, & McIntyre. Oh and Danielson vs Miz Night of Champions too. I love a LOT from 2010. Undertaker vs Michaels worked, but it never reached the level as 25 for me following the live experience. _(PPV, not attendance...)_


Oh shit I forgot Rey v. Swagger 6/11. I thought that was as good as most of Rey's feud with Punk when I watched it. Bryan v. Miz is probably up there, as well. 

I miss 2010 SuperStars.  When I turn on SS nowadays and watch a giant shitty Indian dude and a Canadian woman and a midget dance to close out the show, I really long for the days of the Weekly Excellent Chris Masters Match. Fuck you, Vince. YOU NEVER LIKE MAKING ME HAPPY, DO YOU!?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Oh shit I forgot Rey v. Swagger 6/11. I thought that was as good as most of Rey's feud with Punk when I watched it. Bryan v. Miz is probably up there, as well.
> 
> I miss 2010 SuperStars.  When I turn on SS nowadays and watch a giant shitty Indian dude and a Canadian woman and a midget dance to close out the show, I really long for the days of the Weekly Excellent Chris Masters Match. Fuck you, Vince. YOU NEVER LIKE MAKING ME HAPPY, DO YOU!?


I feel like I should randomly plug Jericho vs Bourne too. Probably b/c its up there with Mysterio vs Kidd as the most brilliant homage to a once lost cruiserweight/light heavyweight division once seen on mainstream tv. Oh shoot, MYSTERIO vs KNOX too. See, Rey in 2010. God dammit, unreal.

I'm only 2011 atm and I already miss 2010 Superstars. There was drop off even a year later. It only continued to fall and fall to be where it is at nowadays. b/c I need to see Usos vs Colons or Prime Time Players ever single week. That doesn't get old...

I hope Khali vs JTG III is signed for next week. Fucking WWE.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2010 might be my favourite Rey year. He was completely out of this world good, having awesome matches with anyone and everyone. I should watch every match he had in 2010 one day, all in order. I have way to many 'projects' lined up after the 2000s thing. 

Man the first time I had watched SS this year was the Khali v. JTG or Kofi or something equally as dogshit and it was disgusting. They can't seriously think that is better TV than what they had a few years ago. And shit, it's not like they can't have that back, they just fired or pushed down all of the best guys. Just....why!?

Masters himself sums my thoughts up pretty well:



> How he felt after the second release: "I was surprised, shocked. I felt kind of betrayed because I felt like I had worked so hard over the last year and not to have a conversation of really why. After having some of the talks I had with Hunter and hearing about how high I was on everybody's list, it would have been nice to know a little more specifically like, 'well hey, this is the deal, we really just don't know what to do with you right now.' You know what I mean? 'It's best if you go off and do your own thing' rather than just tell me the company was restructuring. I mean it was a combination of things; it was shock, betrayal, a lot of things. Looking back now, if they weren't going to use me at that point rather than continue to be buried or just on Superstars, it would probably have been better to do my own thing and stay low on the radar out here for awhile and then maybe see what's up in a couple of years."





> Commenting on his recent release from WWE during an interview with Wrestling101.com, Chris Masters says he didn’t receive the opportunity he feels he deserved.
> “We didn’t part on bad terms, for me personally this time was very different from the first time I was released. I do feel like I worked my ass off and they should’ve at least given me another shot,” Masters said.
> “The Masterpiece” also wonders why WWE opted to keep certain talents employed over him.
> “I look at other guys on the roster and I don’t mean to mention names but people like JTG and a handful of other guys and you think, “your going to keep this guy but your going to get rid of me?”


Why, you old fuckers!? WHY!?!??????? YOU ARE TEARING ME APART, LISA.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched alot of wresting today, more than my usual
Sum STARZ

rey/noble 5/04 ***1/2
rey/finlay 06 week b4 ONS (***3/4)
hbk/Jericho ****1/4- overreacted abit earlier today on it good match but I hate ladder matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dude. Every Mysterio match in 2010 is seriously the project you should do once you finish up the 2000's list. Done deal.

Ha. Masters is spot on. Especially with the comment about keeping guys who shouldn't be kept, but losing him. WWE is trying to Masters & us that they have plans for JTG? Hardly. The guy doesn't even job frequently for crying out loud. He's a ghost.

Why they'll kill a quality portion of their product is way, way beyond me. Drew McIntyre could be killing it on Superstars atm too. Instead he jobs in three minutes on Main Event & Smackdown in a comedy jobber troupe. Ughhhh


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Bryan Danielson vs Kenny Omega - PWG 100. *****1/2 :mark:

Decided to finally upload this match. It's def. worth a watch.

Part 1
Part 2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton/rey 7/4/06 ****1/2
- haven't seen otl in a while but this is either Orton's best or 2nd best match
- Probably match of the year of 2006


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Generico vs Claudio from 6/13 NXT: ****. Spectacular match. So many great spots. Generico's never say die attitude. The way Claudio gets into the Neutralizer. :mark: this > Punk/Taker at WM.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Omega. 

Everyone watch that match NOW. Pains me knowing I don't own it yet. Without a doubt one of my favorites from PWG and both guys in general.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Thoughts on the Payback card? Was thinking about watching it with some friends but I realized it's father's day so I'm not.

But honestly the only match I'm really interested in is Rollins/Reigns vs Orton/Bryan. Kane/Ambrose to an extent too. I'm still convinced Punk isn't gonna be there. But if he is, Jericho/Punk should be cool.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's decent I suppose. Got to matches I'm feeling like I'll probably love in Punker vs Jericho & Shield vs Danielson/Orton. Kane vs Ambrose should hopefully be solid - I marked for that match being made. Rest I don't care for. I haven't liked a Three Stages of Hell yet, so Ryback and Cena are working against the curve. Doesn't help knowing the gimmicks in the first two falls are bleh. Mostly that stupid Lumberjack fall. I hate those matches.

WWE PPVs have been such flops overall this year. Only one I liked the entire way through was WM.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Agreed. PPVs this year haven't been all that great. I liked Mania though. Liked Chamber up until the main event. Actually I really just liked the six man tag and chamber match but fuck it, that's like half the show.

Yeah, the 3 stages of hell is pretty lame. Lumberjack matches are awful except for that Henry/Christian one. And there was one in ROH I liked. And that one where fans beat the shit out of Jeff Jarrett. But other than that, AWFUL. Never been too big on tables matches either, however tag team tables matches are usually fun. Sadly that is not the case here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chamber was only about a two match show for me. Cesaro vs Miz > Chamber match for me. I've gone on that plenty this year though. Henry rocked of course.

Best lumberjack match off the top of my head is Sheamus vs Show from Christmas Eve last year. Is the ROH lumberjack match you are thinking of Danielson vs Homicide? I think that is the only one to happen in the company. Despite who is involved, I hated that one too haha. Gimmick ALWAYS has to end with a schmoz. 

Tables matches can be worked well. It's more 50/50. Have a feeling it won't be a long fall either with Cena knocking Ryback through the table for a swift win to tie it up. Could be way off with Ryback's table fetish atm of course.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Payback is going to do a piss poor buyrate. Like legit BAD. Absolutely nothing on the card is appealing. Ryback/Cena could have been money, but not with joke stipulations like a Lumberjack Match. Shield vs. Some combo of Daniel Bryan, Kane, Orton for the millionth time. Curtis Axel beating two jobbers. Sheamus/Sandow is on the pre-show. Del Rio/Ziggler is one of the worst World Title feuds of all time. 

Predictable. Predictable. Fucking predictable.

Cena wins
Shield wins
Sheamus wins
Axel wins
Ziggler wins
Punk wins

The only two appealing things on the card are Punk and the fact that it's in Chicago.

Oh, and not to mention that it's on Father's Day.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Chamber was only about a two match show for me. Cesaro vs Miz > Chamber match for me. I've gone on that plenty this year though. Henry rocked of course.
> 
> Best lumberjack match off the top of my head is Sheamus vs Show from Christmas Eve last year. Is the ROH lumberjack match you are thinking of Danielson vs Homicide? I think that is the only one to happen in the company. Despite who is involved, I hated that one too haha. Gimmick ALWAYS has to end with a schmoz.
> 
> Tables matches can be worked well. It's more 50/50. Have a feeling it won't be a long fall either with Cena knocking Ryback through the table for a swift win to tie it up. Could be way off with Ryback's table fetish atm of course.


I don't remember Cesaro/Miz. I remember the ending but that's it. Will need to give it another look. Henry was awesome in the chamber. I liked the match as a whole though.

Yes! Danielson/Cide is what I was thinking of. But I agree, it's the kind of match that never really has any good qualities to it. The stipulation is almost always set up out of nowhere too.

I actually kinda seeing it being Cena winning the first fall off a roll up or some bullshit. I think they'll give Ryback the table spot and maybe even have him try to win the ambulance match off that spot or potentially another table spot after. Then again, I have no fucking clue what they're thinking even putting them in this match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Antonio Cesaro Vs Sami Zayn (12/06/2013 WWE NXT)*
★★★★
_Screw it, if I cannot find a decent stream of this then I'll have to settle with this. Not that I mind, though, because Cesaro delivers a phenomenal performance here while, for the most part, Zayne does a great job in bumping for him and getting the crowd to cherish the FIP moments. Someone needs to reward Regal, as well, for his more than stellar performance in not only bringing over both men (and Cesaro's anger) but in covering their botches, too. For instance, Zayne hit his beautiful Tope only to almost sail right over Cesaro. What does Regal do? He plugs it as Zayne using his body to attack Cesaro's head and cause the big man to become dazed. Brilliant.

This is really, and honestly, what you should expect from these two. A large, powerful and proud man hell-bent on making up for his loss throwing his little foe around the ring for a little more than 10 minutes. It may affect some, as it's completely different to what we've been fed before, but Zayne bumps rather uniquely to Cesaro's uppercuts and forearm smashes. Any doubts, though, on how unmasking him may affect his performance are laid to rest here. He's still Generico but with the added difference of being able to emote through his facials. Colour me completely excited for more of his matches, thus.

While the Neutralizer ending may have been "clunky" I found it really did add to the story of Cesaro wishing to hurt Sami in that he didn't make sure his opponent was completely held in this time. As Regal would have us want to view it, "that was nasty!". It's not as good as Regal/Ohno, but this is easily another TV MotYC from WWE. Watch this._​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I don't remember Cesaro/Miz. I remember the ending but that's it. Will need to give it another look. Henry was awesome in the chamber. I liked the match as a whole though.
> 
> Yes! Danielson/Cide is what I was thinking of. But I agree, it's the kind of match that never really has any good qualities to it. The stipulation is almost always set up out of nowhere too.
> 
> I actually kinda seeing it being Cena winning the first fall off a roll up or some bullshit. I think they'll give Ryback the table spot and maybe even have him try to win the ambulance match off that spot or potentially another table spot after. Then again, I have no fucking clue what they're thinking even putting them in this match.


It's good stuff. Cesaro is the king per usual and Miz has a performance that was actually good. He managed to work the leg for the figure four a tad too. which he NEVER does and it's terrible. Good match; I liked it quite a bit.

Had to know that was it. Only match ROH ever had under the stip. Watched it earlier this year and boy, why it went on last over Aries vs Gibson I won't understand. The Aries vs Gibson match is INSANE. I digress...lumerjack matches. Yeah, in a less formal sense, fuck 'em. They're far and away always crappy with the off bright spot being good. That's about it.

It could. We'll have to see. I only think the way I do b/c Cena put over Ryback as a guy who hasn't been "pinned/submitted" in a certain fashion to where it sounded like Ryback would run through Cena in the lumberjack only to lose via tables to have it evened up under fluke means. I would have preferred a straight up Ambulance match instead of Three Stages of Hell, personally.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> It's good stuff. Cesaro is the king per usual and Miz has a performance that was actually good. He managed to work the leg for the figure four a tad too. which he NEVER does and it's terrible. Good match; I liked it quite a bit.
> 
> Had to know that was it. Only match ROH ever had under the stip. Watched it earlier this year and boy, why it went on last over Aries vs Gibson I won't understand. The Aries vs Gibson match is INSANE. I digress...lumerjack matches. Yeah, in a less formal sense, fuck 'em. They're far and away always crappy with the off bright spot being good. That's about it.
> 
> It could. We'll have to see. I only think the way I do b/c Cena put over Ryback as a guy who hasn't been "pinned/submitted" in a certain fashion to where it sounded like Ryback would run through Cena in the lumberjack only to lose via tables to have it evened up under fluke means. I would have preferred a straight up Ambulance match instead of Three Stages of Hell, personally.


(Y)

Agreed. I never realized how good Noble was until I watched his stuff from ROH as Gibson. But as far as the structure of that card, you don't finish a show with a lumberjack match, haha. Even if Danielson/Cide was a fairly big deal. God I'm having ROH '05-'07 flashbacks. Awesome, awesome time. First ever Indy company I explored.

I could definitely see it being like that. I just can't see Cena going down clean to Ryback either. Unless one of the lumberjacks gets a cheap shot in or something. I would have much rather seen an ambulance match, similar to the Last Ride match that Taker/Kennedy had. I feel like they can put a good beat down on each other and the first two falls actually water it don't.

I just don't care for this feud at all though.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> (Y)
> 
> Agreed. I never realized how good Noble was until I watched his stuff from ROH as Gibson. But as far as the structure of that card, you don't finish a show with a lumberjack match, haha. Even if Danielson/Cide was a fairly big deal. God I'm having ROH '05-'07 flashbacks. Awesome, awesome time. First ever Indy company I explored.
> 
> ...


I know this is getting me to want to watch a random '05 show atm. Anything with Gibson. His like 8-9 months within the company was so legit. He was unreal having the quality of matches every show. He won over me too. Of course looking back the talent was always there, but it was a revelation seeing him work ROH & the indies in '05. I miss those days of ROH's peak.

I love Kane vs Shane and I really didn't have a problem with Cena vs Kane (although I've only seen it like twice) so another Ambulance match was fine by me. Stipulation is like you said, beat each other up and then end with a spot and finish the match. Simple enough. It didn't have to blow my mind, but it could have been a solid enough brawl. Oh well.

Don't blame you. I don't think anyone does. It's so eh. Ryback has been good, but almost away from Cena during this whole thing. Ryback has been dominate and entertaining and then it's like "oh yeah, he has a WWE Championship match." Cena is floating around hard right now. It's all about Danielson & The Shield these days. Not that it is a bad thing.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I like Gibson's match against AJ Styles at PWG Guitarmageddon. Read some reviews online that people disliked it, but I thought it was great. Plus it's one of the better early PWG shows. Generico/Daniels, Steen/Excalibur vs. Dragon/Disco and Shelley/Ryan. But yeah, Gibson/AJ is a standout Gibson indy match, IMO.

I might need to download some earlier PWG shows (04-07, 03 was horrid IMO). Not sure if it's worth my time, though.

Plus Guitarmageddon has just been uploaded to XWT, I'd recommend to anybody


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haven't seen that event in far too long. Styles vs Gibson made PWG Sells Out Vol One iirc. If only I had my own copy instead of borrowing from my neighbor...

'03 wasn't too good, but hey, it was a work in progress and only about five shows in total. Classic event names. Pimpin' In High Places is probably my favorite PWG show name ever.

'05, '06, & '07 are fine years. Not amazing years, but they had their classics during. Super Dragon vs Kevin Steen Guerrilla Warfare continues to be one of the greatest in company history and that was December of '05. Once Generico (and Steen) debuted at Free Admission (Just Kidding!) it was off to the races for the company to only get better and better.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

PWG is swell. Recently they've hit a dip for me but 08, 09, 10 and 11 were all pretty amazing and a phenomenal run, honestly maybe one of the best any company have ever had IMO.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The Steiner Brothers vs. Miracle Violence Connection (Beach Blast 1992) ****1/4 

An amazing tag match, which never has the feeling of tedious or dragging on. The core story begins with Gordy & Williams targeting Scott's knee, as the main, to encourage an imminent face in peri episode.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

54% done with RAW 2005 Pack :mark:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2005 Raw was a real blast, Batista's face turn :mark:


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Fluze said:


> The Steiner Brothers vs. Miracle Violence Connection (Beach Blast 1992) ****1/4
> 
> An amazing tag match, which never has the feeling of tedious or dragging on. The core story begins with Gordy & Williams targeting Scott's knee, as the main, to encourage an imminent face in peri episode.


Beach Blast has one of my favorite matches of all time. Rick Rude vs Ricky Steamboat was incredible especially the last 5 or so minutes.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I fucking ADORE that Steiner's tag.

Anywhoways I was completely wrecked last night and drunk/high out of my mind with no recollection as to how I even got home in the first place, watched Big Show vs Henry from Vengeance 2011 and have it four stars, gonna see how the whole show-Henry series checks out very shortly.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The link to Rhyno vs Tajiri goodness. 

^If you haven't watched this match by now, get on it, suckas.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

having fun on thirsty Thursday I see ? fond memories of last semester

just watched orton/ziggler noc and its horrible

When I saw it live I through it stole the show but Its gonna way down. No structure substance at all. You want an example of two guys just thrown together 20 mins this is it. No substance at all. They gotta stop given Ziggler this type of matches


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've always found the majority of Ziggler's matches lack substance and that's one of his problems and one of the reasons I dislike him so much. Oh well. His match w/ Orton at NOC is one of the best to use as evidence to highlight that. @redskins25 how many snowflakes did you give it on first viewing?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SaviorBeeRad™;19628049 said:


> 54% done with RAW 2005 Pack :mark:


That means you only have 46% left! :mark:

And if I remember Raw correctly that year, you're just about entering the moment, starting then, which was the moment, that started way back then... that was the moment that started the era of :cena2 (on Raw).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I've always found the majority of Ziggler's matches lack substance and that's one of his problems and one of the reasons I dislike him so much. Oh well. His match w/ Orton at NOC is one of the best to use as evidence to highlight that. @redskins25 how many snowflakes did you give it on first viewing?


I love ziggles if you couldnt tell, but I can somehow here what your say and am not a blindless mark. I think the thing is he is in some many pointless feuds/matches etc that there is not time or detail put into them. He the guy in there eyes that just gives put good matches and make them look great. However no time or effort is put into it for example orton/ziggler, ziggler/sheamus. they view him as curtain jerking- get crowd excited with the cool moves but he can be more then that.

for my ratings on first watch (live on ppv) had it a ****-1/4 range thought it was great "show-stealing", crowd was into it, good workers, randy flipping off the crowd, nonstop action. Now its around *** for me maybe ***1/4 if I'm feeling generous

Edit: I actually didn't watch punk/cena from the show because ziggler stole it for me and i thought nothing could top it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So you mean to tell me that a horrible match in your rating system is ★★★? That sounds very generous if you ask me. I have that NOC match around ★★★¼-½ range and consider it solid, but I haven't watched it since it happened.

In other news, also finished watching Rock/Punk from EC earlier today. The comedy wasn't as good as it was with the Royal Rumble match but the beginning had me laughing with Punk goofing around and then spitting in Rock's face. But otherwise, the whole match is way too slow (even worse than the RR match) and Punk is really in control for too much of it. I understand Rock's cardio atm is pretty bad due to him being way too bulky but that brings it down as Punk looks way too unconvincing to be in control for so much of it and taking down The Rock with the rebound shoulder knockdowns. The finish is also a complete clusterfuck and the Punk Bottom on the announce table is the softest variation of the move I've ever seen. He landed The Rock so gently on the table, a bed feels less comfortable than that. Still worse than RR match but not as much as the first time I thought. ★★¼


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> So you mean to tell me that a horrible match in your rating system is ★★★? That sounds very generous if you ask me. I have that NOC match around ★★★¼-½ range and consider it solid, but I haven't watched it since it happened.
> 
> In other news, also finished watching Rock/Punk from EC earlier today. The comedy wasn't as good as it was with the Royal Rumble match but the beginning had me laughing with Punk goofing around and then spitting in Rock's face. But otherwise, the whole match is way too slow (even worse than the RR match) and Punk is really in control for too much of it. I understand Rock's cardio atm is pretty bad due to him being way too bulky but that brings it down as Punk looks way too unconvincing to be in control for so much of it and taking down The Rock with the rebound shoulder knockdowns. The finish is also a complete clusterfuck and the Punk Bottom on the announce table is the softest variation of the move I've ever seen. He landed The Rock so gently on the table, a bed feels less comfortable than that. Still worse than RR match but not as much as the first time I thought. ★★¼




I didn't care for rock/punk matches either. How would you guys rate both rock/cena matches? I actually enjoyed they're first encounter. 

WM 28: ****

WM 29: ***1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have it a *** because although Ive seen much better, Ive seen worst


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rocky/Cena

WM 28: ***1/2*
WM 29: :lmao


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I agree with Ever Wolf's rating on the WM29 match. Don't care for their first one either, never watched it a second time though so wouldn't know what to rate it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Beach Blast '92. Eternally excellent.

I'll shoot some love towards Beach Blast '93 for their main event. Nobody ever talks about that radical Masters of the Powerbomb vs Sting & Smith match. It's great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*New Year's Revolution 2007:*

Jeff Hardy vs Johnny Nitro - ★★★
- Another solid match between these two, this time inside a steel cage. Some good back and forth and cool spots such as the ending and the sunsetflip powerbomb from the top of the cage. Hardy retains by dropkicking the door causing Nitro to land with his nuts on the top of the door.

Cryme Tyme vs Trevor Murdoch/Lance Cade vs World's Greatest Tag Team vs Highlanders vs Jim Duggan/Super Crazy - ★★½
- Some solid tag action in parts of this and the match goes on for nearly 20 minutes. Tag team turmoil meaning it's divided with a few minutes between every team followed by an elimination. I enjoyed some parts like WGGT against Cade/Murdoch as well as the beginning but then the final match-up was pretty boring and took away from it. And Duggan/Crazy was a pretty random pairing with Crazy getting far too little ring-time. Cryme Tyme win to a pretty good reaction from the crowd.

Kenny Dykstra vs Ric Flair - ★¼
- Very boring and for the third time, Kenny defeats Flair. He's nothing special and now barely anyone remembers him. Did they really plan on turning him into a top star? Young and all, he left with nothing to his name.

Mickie James vs Victoria - ★★
- Decent match between two of the better female wrestlers as well as two of the hottest. Not much more, though.

Rated RKO vs DX - ★★★★
- This was full of awesomeness. Great tag action during the first 15 or so minutes with the standard stuff done pretty well but then HHH gets the hot tag and as he cleans house, he has a quad tear after giving Orton a spinebuster. From then on, this changes the course of the match as they had to improvise. HBK punches the referee out of the ring and it becomes all about DX destroying Rated RKO with chairs and putting them through tables. Impressive from HHH to do the Pedigree twice despite the pressure it puts on the knees. Also Orton does a blade job nearly on the level of Eddie Guerrero from Judgment Day. He gets cut open badly and his blood ends up all over his torso and on the floor by the end. Awesome match and easy MOTN. Hell, the quad tear might have actually helped it since the planned was maybe not as epic. Well, other than the botched RKO where HHH couldn't jump.

Chris Masters vs Carlito - ★¾
- Nearly a year later and these guys are still stuck with each other. Pretty short and other than a few impressive moves such as the overhead half-nelson throw by Masters, nothing special. Surprisingly, Masters picks up a win despite having been jobbed out for the entire past year.

John Cena vs Umaga - ★★★½
- Heard a lot about this match and finally got to see it here. Just what you expect from Cena when facing monsters. He gets dominated nearly all of the match and Umaga hardly gives him a chance to fight back. He sells pretty well as the face and gets the crowd really into it with his comebacks and all. Also a clever finish that doesn't completely kill Umaga's aura when Cena catches him off-guard with a roll-up to escape with the championship. Typical Cena vs monster stuff where he sells like the desperate babyface and I enjoyed it quite a bit.

*Overall:* ★★★ out of ★★★★★ (A very solid PPV with three matches ranging from good to great and another couple of alright matches only taken down by one really poor match early on. Enjoyable PPV and possibly the best of the New Year's Revolution series. 2005 was a one-match show and 2006 was mixed with the matches ranging from underwhelming to good. I have to fpalm @ the extras for the DVD of this, though. They include Cena vs K-Fed and... "Trump" vs "Rosie O'Donell"? That's when Vince started losing it completely.)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

After Survivor Series 2011, the novelty of Rock being there had pretty much worn off. Don't get me wrong, there were promos I liked, but the return on the whole was so meh for me.

The Mania 28 match was his best, and I don't think it's above ***1/2. 

Unfortunately, Rock/Cena had to follow Punk/Taker and Brock/Trips back to back, and the crowd was done. They barely even counted the final pinfall, probably because they have kicked out of each other's finishers so much by then. The only thing I liked was Cena's trolling Rock with his fake people's elbow. 

And both Punk/Rock matches were awful. Cole's screaming at the Rumble was the icing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

C2D, you're running for '07 PPV's? Here's a little Supporter to get you ready:

_Amazing:
_WrestleMania 23
Backlash

_Great/Very Good:_
Survivor Series
No Mercy
Armageddon
The Great American Bash
Royal Rumble

_Decent_
Cyber Sunday
New Year's Revolution

_Poor_
Unforgiven
No Way Out
SummerSlam

_Godawful_
Judgment Day
One Night Stand
Vengeance


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> The link to Rhyno vs Tajiri goodness.
> 
> ^If you haven't watched this match by now, get on it, suckas.


Good stuff. 

They've always had quality little matches vs each other. Now I know the Gore into the kick from Unforgiven '01 is a callback to this match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Royal Rumble was amazing IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah Royal Rumble is tremendous. Always preferred it over Backlash.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> C2D, you're running for '07 PPV's? Here's a little Supporter to get you ready:
> 
> _Amazing:
> _WrestleMania 23
> ...




Royal rumble belongs in amazing section.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

> And both Punk/Rock matches were awful. Cole's screaming at the Rumble was the icing.


DON'T. REMIND. ME.



ATF said:


> C2D, you're running for '07 PPV's? Here's a little Supporter to get you ready:
> 
> _Amazing:
> _WrestleMania 23
> ...


Sort of. I got done with 2006 so chronologically, I'm moving forward to 2007 (Raw, ECW, SD + PPV). Will stop after Vengeance and then start watching the AE from 97 up to 2002. Will return afterwards to where I stopped and continue until 2011.

I highly doubt WM23 belongs in the 'amazing' section. Already watched all the matches and other than three of them (both title + US title matches), they are more miss than hit.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Fluze said:


> The Steiner Brothers vs. Miracle Violence Connection (Beach Blast 1992) ****1/4
> 
> An amazing tag match, which never has the feeling of tedious or dragging on. The core story begins with Gordy & Williams targeting Scott's knee, as the main, to encourage an imminent face in peri episode.


This was one of the rare ppvs I ordered when I was a kid. I remember that match so well. It was fanfuckingtastic. That along with Cactus/Sting and Rude/Steamboat Iron man match :mark: :mark: :mark:


I've ran out of things I really want to watch so I think I'm going to undertake a Bryan Danielson project and watch all of his ROH/WWE/PWG matches and make a list. Should be fun with all of his epic matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Armageddon 2007 should be in the godawful section, and Royal Rumble and WM should trade spots. Great American Bash was also pretty bad minus the main event. No Mercy was also nothing more than decent if you're not a big HHH/Orton fan.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

not a wwe dvd or actually wrestling but just watched _The Wrestler_, very good movie and really depicts the life of a retired and indy wrestler. I heard this is flairs life basically which is kinda sad

Gonna see This is the end tonite hopefully its good


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

Starting a top 100 Kane project. Not sure if I will be good at this, but I will give it a try


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Armageddon 2007 should be in the godawful section, and Royal Rumble and WM should trade spots. Great American Bash was also pretty bad minus the main event. No Mercy was also nothing more than decent if you're not a big HHH/Orton fan.


I've only seen the two title matches from Armageddon and think they're both decent. That alone makes me think it's above godawful.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> The Steiner Brothers vs. Miracle Violence Connection (Beach Blast 1992) ****1/4
> 
> An amazing tag match, which never has the feeling of tedious or dragging on. The core story begins with Gordy & Williams targeting Scott's knee, as the main, to encourage an imminent face in peri episode.


Beach Blast 1992 is the greatest PPV of all time. It has to be. With that said, watch the MVC/Steiners match from the 6/92 Clash, it's even better. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...iams-terry-gordy-clash-xix_sport#.Ubum0_kziSo

Just the mention of this stuff gets me nostalgic for 2011 WCW mega-watching.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I enjoyed Hardy/Game from Armageddon 2007. Forgetting what happened afterwards (Triple H fighting to get in the Rumble/Cena returning etc), the ending of that match surprised me. The two had good matches the following year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The WHC match and the Hardy/HHH match were both great. Armageddon was trash outside of those though.

Edit: Also, think I'm finally gonna start unveiling my top 100, but I'll actually write mini-reviews for each match (well... reviews will probably get longer as the matches get better and I have more positive things to say). Even though I just watched almost all the matches a couple of months ago, I'll watch em during work on the weekend (well, what I can anyway  ). It'll be a great way to pass the time and get my mind fresh on these matches.

That and Last of Us should keep me busy next week.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Beach Blast 1992 is the greatest PPV of all time. It has to be. With that said, watch the MVC/Steiners match from the 6/92 Clash, it's even better. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...iams-terry-gordy-clash-xix_sport#.Ubum0_kziSo
> 
> Just the mention of this stuff gets me nostalgic for 2011 WCW mega-watching.


Jim Ross and Jesse Ventura are an underrated commentary team. I loved their commentary at this time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> This was one of the rare ppvs I ordered when I was a kid. I remember that match so well. It was fanfuckingtastic. That along with Cactus/Sting and Rude/Steamboat Iron man match :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> 
> I've ran out of things I really want to watch so I think I'm going to undertake a Bryan Danielson project and watch all of his ROH/WWE/PWG matches and make a list. Should be fun with all of his epic matches.


Watch his matches vs Chris Sabin first. I can't be the only one who thinks they're among some of his most underrated/forgotten gems.

No bias, of course.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching the three Mania matches between Game/Taker for my Trips project. Going in order. 

17 is still my least favorite. The atmosphere is pretty great, and I love Motorhead playing Triple H to the ring, but the match still hasn't gone up for me. ***3/4.

27 up now. For Whom the Bell Tolls FTW


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was jazzed up to watch a lot of Taker's WM matches a few nights ago. Started with WM IX vs Giant Gonzales. I stopped after that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Obfuscation said:


> I was jazzed up to watch a lot of Taker's WM matches a few nights ago. Started with WM IX vs Giant Gonzales. I stopped after that.


Watch em' in reverse order.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^Yeah, watching in reverse is okay, but you can also start around Mania 13 or 14, since that's where the matches start getting good. 

The Gonzalez match probably wasn't a great place to start.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lmao, I'm watching the Raw after NYR 07 right now and I've reached the fake Rosie vs fake Trump match. Wow, this is BAD. Only redeemed slightly by the fans crapping all over it with some funny chants. Don't even know why I haven't just skipped past the whole thing.

EDIT: Fake Rosie just did a Thesz Press. :lmao


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Watch his matches vs Chris Sabin first. I can't be the only one who thinks they're among some of his most underrated/forgotten gems.


I've seen their match where Bryan used the Strong Hold to put away Sabin and used all of Roderick's moveset the day before their match at Vendetta. It certainly was great. I gave it somewhere at 4* or more on my first watch many months ago. I know they faced each other in PWG as well and I'll seek that out. 

Not sure how I could rate that Omega match I linked to yesterday. It's almost definitely one of my favorite matches ever but lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just got back from This is the end, pretty funny recommend go to it. 

Gonna give angle/taker nwo another watch see if it goes up from ***3/4. I may go back to watching more 2004 after


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Angle NWO 06- ****3/4, one of the best matches of all time. Incredible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> I've seen their match where Bryan used the Strong Hold to put away Sabin and used all of Roderick's moveset the day before their match at Vendetta. It certainly was great. I gave it somewhere at 4* or more on my first watch many months ago. I know they faced each other in PWG as well and I'll seek that out.
> 
> Not sure how I could rate that Omega match I linked to yesterday. It's almost definitely one of my favorite matches ever but lol.


Danielson dominating Sabin in the fashion of Roddy was excellent. Loved that approach in using a ton of backbreakers & the Strong Hold to eventually defeat him. Their PWG match is a complete 180 from their Showdown in Motown match. Which is a trait I loved. Kept it fresh and fun a whole different time around. Not sure which I like more considering they're two different types of matches with the same two workers.

That's one that certainly does exceed the normal "standards" behind the snowflake system. Of course, that's what makes it so grand. You ignore any form of rating on it and dig it for what it is. If you're into that kind of match that is. It's so one of a kind that I have to imagine it appeals to almost every fan out there in some capacity.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> That's one that certainly does exceed the normal "standards" behind the snowflake system. Of course, that's what makes it so grand. You ignore any form of rating on it and dig it for what it is. If you're into that kind of match that is. *It's so one of a kind that I have to imagine it appeals to almost every fan out there in some capacity.*


I thought this about the 6-man from ASW 9 Night 2. It is just incredible and I think is just about the most entertaining match I've ever seen. I can't understand how people don't at least enjoy it. Everything gotta be super cereal in the indies. I gave it 5* fwiw. Will almost certainly be #2 in my MOTY behind Okada/Tanahashi from IA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ahhh I tend to have Danielson vs Omega in a much different league than the six man. That one wasn't too much of a spectacle like I was led to believe. It was average for the most part from my perspective. Danielson vs Omega had so many different layers to it which all meshed together and formed a great match. Six man had a spot I laughed on & a succession of 450 splashes I loved. Rest, blah. I'll gladly take Del Sol vs Perkins from the same event over it. But hey, that's just me.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Anyone seen that Global Warming 2002 event? How was it?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

All I've seen is Brock/Rock/Triple H, and I barely remember it. Don't remember it being too bad though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Global Warming is essentially an Australian "giant" episode of Raw, but it's fun. Brock/Rock/HHH is OK and Edge/Jericho is above their 2010 matches.

Adressing the '07 PPV stuff:
- RR not in the amazing section simply because of LASHLEY/TEST. I hated that so freaking much, it actually took from the PPV itself. But '07 is still the 3rd best Rumble of the decade imo (behind '00 and '01). Cena/Umaga and the '07 Rumble are :mark:

- WM 23 had MITB III, Batista/Taker I and Cena/HBK I, all of which I loved. Plus, Benoit/MVP was good, Battle of the Billionaires was fun, and the other (horrible) stuff ran short. It's kind of an underrated Mania imo, and my personal PPV of the Year for '07.

- TGAB was pretty consistent in its quality, consistent decent to good matches, and I still adore that Umaga/Jeff match.

- NM is higher mostly because of its unique and shock factor, in that its mostly a different PPV than all the others I'd ever seen before. Oh and yes, HHH/Orton LMS is brilliant.

- And Armageddon has a lot of nice stuff: HBK/Kennedy, HHH/Jeff and the Triple Threat were all ***3/4-**** imo, and the atmosphere of the show was good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lashley vs Test was short too. Idk. We all have our logic for reasoning.

I like Armageddon '07 too. I don't think a single match was bad. Not the ECW tag, not Finlay vs Khali, not Beth vs Mickie. It all worked. Been a bit since my last viewing pardon Hardy vs Trips, yet I'm confident in this.

GAB '07 is bad as an overall event. Although it has two standout matches in Hardy vs Umaga & Cena vs Lashley so the event has _some_ form of merit. Rest of the card is really poor. No escaping it. CM Punk vs John Morrison, Orton vs Dusty, Carlito vs Sandman. Matt vs MVP which greatly exposes MVP as a poor worker he truly is. Ahhhhhh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lashley/Test was short but I still see it as the short version of HHH/Steiner. It's just a terrible, terrible match.

And I forgot to address TV matches in '07. They were OK I guess. Standouts were Punk/Morrison ECW, Cena/HBK, Batista/Taker Steel Cage... and that's all I can remember now. Oh, and the better than expected Cena/Khali/Umaga Triple Threat too.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> not a wwe dvd or actually wrestling but just watched _The Wrestler_, very good movie and really depicts the life of a retired and indy wrestler. I heard this is flairs life basically which is kinda sad
> 
> Gonna see This is the end tonite hopefully its good


Seen that movie. It'a a good film. I've read the film's character shares many traits with the careers of Jake Roberts and Terry Funk, they were probably the inspiration for the character in the film, which makes sense given the drug problems, all the independent shows, wrestling into old age... etc. Not so sure on Flair.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I haven't read up on it, but I definitely got a sense of Jake Roberts in there, just based on what I've read online about him and interviews with him. Good film, better than I thought it would be.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Movie is one of my favorites. 

It also bred "Hollywood" Dylan Summers too. Which is always going to earn points from me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I really good movie that shows the other side of wrestler. Yea I got the jake the snake comparison as well. Sad, the ending is a cliffhanger too


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smackdown was awesome this week. Opening segment with Team Hell RK-NO was awesome and the match-ups were great too except the jobbers.

Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - ★★★¼ (Great physical match with a decent amount of time. Damn does Cesaro look naked with that attire, though. I hate it when wrestlers don't wear kneepads.)

Orton, Bryan & Kane vs The Shield - ★★★½ (REALLY AWESOME! Haven't marked out like this since Lesnar's return)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Someone bought me the Bret Hart: Dungeon Collection yesterday :mark: , hoping to start it later.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh God Cena/Khali/Umaga actually happened? Sounds like wrestlecrap worthy stuff.

Anyway, I see we're talking 2007 PPVs and no one has mentioned Cena/Lahley from GAB yet? Goddamn, that match super-exceeded my expectations. Even after hearing all the hype behind it I still had no faith in it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Shield losing their first match as a team isn't THAT bad. I can understand that losing in a major PPV would have made better sense but on the bright side, at least Bryan will benefit from this. Shield will probably all retain this sunday.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shawn Michaels/Diesel vs 123 Kid/Razor Ramon - Action Zone 1994

'The clique tag'

****1/4

Really like this match, first time I can remember watching it tbh, good crowd too. Excellent.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Shield vs Bryan/Orton/Kane on Smackdown ****

The crowd for this was great, the match was a great six man match (with who's involved no one can be surprised). Bryan was the star once again. If WWE turn this guy heel it will go down as one of their worst decisions ever. WWE need to book Bryan to win the Royal Rumble in 2014 and have the great underdog story going into WM30 with him winning the WWE title.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Finally watched the HBK/Trips match from Raw 2003 and Armageddon 2002, as well as giving the LMS from the RR 2004 a rewatch. That about completes their set of big matches as I already watched the HIAC from Bad Blood, and I'll probably rewatch Summerslam 2002 just for the hell of it, but I think that's my favorite.

Their series:
Summerslam 2002 ****1/2
Armageddon 2002 *** (Seriously, I don't get the hate for this match. Not great, but didn't suck.)
Raw (12/12/2003) ****1/2
Royal Rumble 2004 ***1/4
Bad Blood 2004 ***1/2

Obviously this is just singles matches, and I'm lining up the WM 20 and Backlash triple threats for later. I know the HIAC, 3 Stages of Hell and LMS (even Summerslam) matches don't always get much love, and most folks crap on the 3 Stages match, but I didn't think it was terrible. I think we all expect more from these two in terms of match quality. As many gimmick matches as they had, the overall quality should have probably been better.

The best match is a tie, in my mind, between Summerslam 2002 and Raw 2003, though the Summerslam match may be a notch better.

Edit: I also need to give a Taboo Tuesday 2004 a watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think a major problem with the their series ( I have only watched ss 02 and raw 03) is the length. Their matches just seem to drag


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The problem with their matches is that they try too hard to make it an epic war and it feels forced.

On the topic of 2004, I just watched another great Evolution tag match for the Orton list against Tajiri, Shelton and Edge from 3rd May. ★★★¼. Gonna download all the 2004 Raws to get a better look at all the great matches. (as well as upload them to youtube for future uses)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Here's The Shield wrestling each other in developmental. *Rollins vs Ambrose vs Leakee
*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Worst PPV Main Event every year since '05?

Mine:
2005: Batista vs JBL GAB - DUD
2006: Batista vs Booker SS - DUD
2007: Cena vs Khali ONS - **
2008: WHC Scramble UF - ***
2009: HHH vs Orton WM - 3/4*
2010: Kane vs Taker HIAC - *
2011: Cena vs Truth CP - DUD
2012: Cena vs Ace OTL - DUD
2013: Punk vs Rock RR - FUCKTHISMATCH


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Capitol Punishment 2011 - Cena/Truth?


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

^Cena/Truth I reckon. Most people would probably say that or Cena/Kane.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> Worst PPV Main Event every year since '05?
> 
> Mine:
> 2005: Batista vs JBL GAB - DUD
> ...


lol why'd you edit it


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The fact that Cena/Ace main evented over Punk/Bryan, which ended being one of the top 3 matches that year, makes zero sense. 

Same with MITB that year. Punk/Bryan had another four star match, but Cena winning just HAD to end the show.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

How many PPVS did Cena get over Punk anyway? Seems like that dude hardly main evented PPVS as champ. Not that it makes a major difference.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2003: HHH vs Goldberg - SVS - ★
2004: Taker vs Dudleyz - GAB - ½★
2005: Batista vs JBL - GAB - 0
2006: DX vs Spirit Squad - Vengeance - 0
2007: Cena vs Khali - ONS - ★
2008: Don't know, none were _terrible_
2009: Orton vs HHH - WM - ★★¼
2010: Probably Kane vs Taker
2011: Cena vs Miz - OTL - ½★
2012: Cena vs Ace - OTL - ½★
2013: Rock vs Punk - EC - ★★¼


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gotta agree with '08 having no terrible PPV ME's. WHC Scramble was worst at *** imo. One of the best years for PPV ME's ever, maybe?



WrestlingforEverII said:


> lol why'd you edit it


Because I felt it was better like this


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Punk's title reign ending with that fucking 'match' (uses the term very loosly), was a massive fuck off moment.

It was a match I was really looking forward to since Raw 1000, but then the match happened, im not just saying it as a Punk mark, but it pisses me off still.

Arrrrggggghhhhhh.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Survior Series 2011 w/Rock vs Miz/Truth (though that wasn't a surprise)
EC 2012 - I think the Cena/Kane Ambulance Match closed the show.
Wrestlemania 
Extreme Rules 
Over the Limit
No Way Out 
Money in the Bank

I wonder what Cena would have done at TLC 2011 if he hadn't been kept off the show.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I wonder what Cena would have done at TLC 2011 if he hadn't been kept off the show.


 Would have probably faced Kane because the 'embrace the hate' angle began a week before TLC.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Apparently TLC 2011 was the first PPV in two years that didn't feature a Cena promo or match. Damn.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Man, it sucked how they returned Kane "resurrected" and coming back with the mask to feed to cena. I understand cena needed a fued before WM though. 

IMO 2012 would have been the perfect time for Kane to win the royal rumble. He was first coming back with the mask and all, could have built him up to be unstoppable.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> *Punk's title reign ending with that fucking 'match' (uses the term very loosly), was a massive fuck off moment.*
> 
> It was a match I was really looking forward to since Raw 1000, but then the match happened, im not just saying it as a Punk mark, but it pisses me off still.
> 
> Arrrrggggghhhhhh.


Some of you don't know when to stop it seems. I don't think it's possible for me to laugh any more than already when it comes to _that_ match. The over-the-top bashing is way too funny. As if it wasn't enough in the past, here we have another one calling it a "match" loosely. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Apparently TLC 2011 was the first PPV in two years that didn't feature a Cena promo or match. Damn.


And featured the 1st BIG US Title victory since Bryan's, the Punk/ADR/Moz TLC, HHH throwing Kevin Nash off a ladder through a table in 20fucking11, Booker T wrestling for the IC Title and Daniel Bryan winning the then-meaningful WHC... what a show.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

LOL agree with the Rock/Punk match. I rated it highly at first (not anymore) but I still fail to see why it's a DUD or the worst main event in history.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wasnt paying attend really to punk/rock rumble and skipped ec 13 so I lucked out.

Guys I'm skipping Payback, Hell, I stream ppvs and I dont even want to watch it lol. Ive never seen a more one match show and the one match may not even happen and we've seen it many times in the last year. I'll probably watch the next day punk/Jericho and ziggler/del rio just because.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To me it's not because Rock beat Punk, it's because the wrestling and booking of Rock's win themselves blew monkey balls.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I used to defend the finish to Rock/Punk at RR but now it makes no sense. Rock never addressed Shield again and they never attacked him again. It's like the whole was forgotten. Similar to Maddox screwing Ryback, nothing happened afterwards. Maddox became a jobber and is hardly on TV.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Both of those matches endings were terribly done. I think it's mostly down to the fact that they still wanted to keep Punk looking somewhat strong heading into Mania, so they didnt have Rock beat him fair and square.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Both of those matches endings were terribly done. I think it's mostly down to the fact that they still wanted to keep Punk looking somewhat strong heading into Mania, so they didnt have Rock beat him fair and square.


 Tbf, I liked how the RR finish developed the delusional Punk gimmick further. Before that, he was just a typical heel who moaned but then he was deluding himself that the 434 reign was still on and counting. The Elimination chamber match was the match that Rock truly ended the reign from Punk's view.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I will hand it to WWE for their GOAT trolling at the RR match. I marked when I thought Punk had won. Then Rock won with one elbow, and I was like "Well damn". It's over now, and Rock's moved on.

Not really a fan of "Let's have Punk drop the belt to Rock just so Cena can get his win back over Rock AND win the title". Wasn't a fan of Cena winning the Rumble either. They should have had Ryback win the Rumble and challenge for the World Title and winning it. Sure, you can argue "Well why wouldn't he challenge Rock". Don't have an answer for that at the moment, but WWE have written crazier things so it's not impossible. It would have also kept Ryback from losing 7 consecutive PPVs, with another likely coming Sunday. I don't like him, but it sucks for him that he's been booked this way.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Tbf, I liked how the RR finish developed the delusional Punk gimmick further. Before that, he was just a typical heel who moaned but then he was deluding himself that the 434 reign was still on and counting. The Elimination chamber match was the match that Rock truly ended the reign from Punk's view.


True, just felt like it was all over the place. Perhaps they could have let Punk escape RR and have him still be delusional that he won straight up, only for him to go down at EC.



iwatchwrestling said:


> I will hand it to WWE for their GOAT trolling at the RR match. I marked when I thought Punk had won. Then Rock won with one elbow, and I was like "Well damn". It's over now, and Rock's moved on.
> 
> Not really a fan of "Let's have Punk drop the belt to Rock just so Cena can get his win back over Rock AND win the title". Wasn't a fan of Cena winning the Rumble either. They should have had Ryback win the Rumble and challenge for the World Title and winning it. Sure, you can argue "Well why wouldn't he challenge Rock". Don't have an answer for that at the moment, but WWE have written crazier things so it's not impossible. It would have also kept Ryback from losing 7 consecutive PPVs, with another likely coming Sunday. I don't like him, but it sucks for him that he's been booked this way.


Ryback is done at this point. Pretty crazy to think about. But I agree on the writing and stuff. I would love to have some of what WWE's smoking that makes them come up with some of these silly things. 

On another note a 01-03ish Rock vs Cena/Punk in different solo matches (and with a better creative team) would have been killer.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just finished that new Kanye album. Really out of ordinary, but awesome album.

College Dropout: ****3/4
Late Registration: ****1/4
Graduation: ***1/2
808 & Heartbreaks: ***
MBDTF: ****3/4
Watch The Throne: ***3/4
Yeezus: ****1/4

:kanye What a resume!

Smackdown has been awesome these past few months. The scary part is that it could be even better from here now that Henry, Ziggler, and hopefully Punk are back.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It has indeed, ever since it became The Shield And Team Hell No Show that is.

Is it just me or are Orton, Bryan, Kane and Shield the new SD Six?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

kanerules88 said:


> Starting a top 100 Kane project. Not sure if I will be good at this, but I will give it a try


A Kane project should be fun. I'm sure he has some hiden gems laying around that I haven't seen. Good luck dude. 



Gamblor said:


> Taker/Angle NWO 06- ****3/4, one of the best matches of all time. Incredible.


An incredible match indeed. I would've given this match the full five but I wasn't too high on the finish. Still 2006 MOTY for me easily. 



sharkboy22 said:


> Oh God Cena/Khali/Umaga actually happened? Sounds like wrestlecrap worthy stuff.
> 
> Anyway, I see we're talking 2007 PPVs and no one has mentioned Cena/Lahley from GAB yet? Goddamn, that match super-exceeded my expectations. Even after hearing all the hype behind it I still had no faith in it.


Cena/Khali/Umaga was actually a pretty good Triple Threat match for what it was. Nothing noteworthy but still pretty fun. Especially the Umaga and Khali encounters which were hilarious. 

And yeah, Cena vs Lashly GAB 07 stills owns. I've watched this countless times and it still holds up. A fun clash of the titans type match with both Cena and Lashley throwing everything they can at each other to win the WWE title. I enjoyed this match a lot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's arguably the worst main event of the PG Era, I went into detail about it and broke down exactly why it was an abomination on mankind quite a while back, going to see if I can dig it up.

Anywhoways, back to the worst PPV main event of every year:

1997: The Undertaker Vs Faarooq (King of the Ring)

1998: The Undertaker Vs Kane (IYH Judgment Day)

1999: The Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble)

2000: The Rock/The Undertaker/Kane Vs Triple H/Vince McMahon/Shane McMahon (King of the Ring)

2001: Steve Austin Vs Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho (King of the Ring)

2002: The Undertaker Vs Triple H (King of the Ring)

2003: The Rock Vs Hulk Hogan (No Way Out 2003)

2004: The Undertaker Vs The Dudley Boyz (Great American Bash)

2005: Batista Vs JBL (Great American Bash)

2006: Triple H/Shawn Michaels Vs The Spirit Squad (Vengeance)

2007: The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry (Unforgiven 2007)

2008: The Undertaker Vs Edge (One Night Stand)

2009: Triple H Vs Randy Orton (The Bash)

2010: The Undertaker Vs Kane (Hell in a Cell)

2011: John Cena Vs The Miz (Over The Limit)

2012: John Cena Vs John Laurinitis (Over The Limit)

2013: CM Punk Vs The Rock (Royal Rumble)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just got back from watching Shield/Hell RK-No, and wow. That crowd was NUTS for D-Bry. Everything flew awesomely, selling was spot on, psychology, pacing... and the ending. DAT ENDING. It was so awesome I actually didn't mind Shield's loss at all. Even for a 9 minute match, this was gold. Throwing it the ****.

And seriously, Shield/Hell No is EASILY Feud Of The Year so far.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BUT WHAT ABOUT ROCK-CENA?

unk2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King of the Ring sounds more like King of the Worst Main Event of the Year it seems. KOTWMEOTY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> BUT WHAT ABOUT ROCK-CENA?
> 
> unk2


Forgot about that one fpalm 
DAT MONEY, DAT REVENUE :rock3 :cena4


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Steiner/Trips II and Rock/Hogan II are equally bad as far as 2003 goes for me.

Steiner/Trips was laughably bad, as was Rock/Hogan. Although Rocks hollywood heel antics provided some enjoyment.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Steiner/Trips II and Rock/Hogan II are equally bad as far as 2003 goes for me.
> 
> Steiner/Trips was laughably bad, as was Roc/Hogan although Rocks hollywood heel antics provided some enjoyment.


But it didn't main event the show. That doesn't matter since HHH vs Goldberg from Survivor Series is as bad, if not worse. And that abomination did main event over the excellent Austin/Bischoff elimination tag match.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> But it didn't main event the show. That doesn't matter since HHH vs Goldberg from Survivor Series is as bad, if not worse.


True, I was just speaking generally from that year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I generally thought that most KOTR PPVs were shitty except a few.

Anyways, just thought I'd announce that I'm officially on the "Dolph Ziggler has a ton of potential as a face worker but continues to be incredibly underwhelming as a heel worker w/ little to no substance in the promo department but I'm going to root for him against the likes of Del Rio since Del Rio is the most boring main event 'star' in WWE history" train. I think there's at least like, 10 different full timers I'd have over him at this point, I'm not going to knock his potential out though as he has a higher ceiling than most guys out there, he just needs to be put in the right situation to really make his work come through. I've never really seen the guy go out and give a real show-stealing performance ever besides No Way Out 2012 (you can say Bragging Rights 2010 but it was against Bryan fucking Danielson), and he's not the kind of person who can go out there and turn shit into gold ALA Cesaro/Kofi earlier this year and Shield Vs Anybody.

A face Ziggler Vs Mark Henry/Big Show just SCREAMS awesome to me, I think he could get some good stuff out of Ryback as well.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/Cena feud from 2013 was better than 2012 IMO. It's a shame Rock was busy with his filming but for the segments alone, it was pretty decent that provided with the Cena heel turn speculations. 

Hogan/Rock II sucked.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Everything Rock did up to the rematch with Hogan was gold. Then he gave Austin a nice farewell match.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

That's irrelevant said:


> A Kane project should be fun. I'm sure he has some hiden gems laying around that I haven't
> An incredible match indeed. I would've given this match the full five but I wasn't too high on the finish. Still 2006 MOTY for me easily.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks hope to start tomorrow


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Everything Rock did up to the rematch with Hogan was gold. Then he gave Austin a nice farewell match.


Indeed. Probably one of the best examples of work from a heel character from the last few years. Rock was the backbone for his major three feuds during that time (Hogan/Austin/Goldberg) Shame it didn't run on longer. Heel Rock vs Face HBK was a missed opportunity. 

Another recent example of good heel character pretty much being the backbone of his feud was Punk/Taker. Love Taker but Punk was THE guy holding that short feud together.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler is the best thing in sports entertainment atm. Just has shit to work with and isnt allowed to use his actual material on mic. Ill say it again in-ring being a babyface probably suits him better but the guy is a heel wit his whole demeanor and mic skills and being a cookie-cutter would kill his persona

I may be in the minority but I think Kane's team hell no run has been his best in-ring. To the guy doing the list , wouldnt be shocked if his tag matches with bryan against shield are very high on the list


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ziggler is probably the most overrated wrestler on the roster. I actually like Del Rio quite a bit and would take him over Zigg in a heartbeat. At least Del Rio's matches actually feel like either a heel or babyface match. Ziggler is IDKWTF. His big match 'fomrula' is rubbish. Too much back and forth shit that I just really can't into. Ziggler's promos are ass-boring as well. Sometimes they're not even boring, they're just flat out stupid. 'I'm going to make this guy look interesting'? The fuck? How about, you, IDK, win the match, you idiot. I fucking hate wrestling characters that seem to want to 'steal ths show!!!!' instead of winning a match. The fuck kind of heel is that? He has a horrible character. He's pretty much a heel who actually feeds off of positive reaction from the crowd. I think it's partly WWE's fault because they haven't realised turning him face would be a good idea, but man, he is not really a good heel at all (any more, I started to really like him in 2010/2011, in fact I'mma re-watch a bunch of 2010 Zigg one day). Also I hold him using 'HEEL' on TV against him forever. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to think that's appropriate. He's such a frustrating wrestler.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Ziggler is the best thing in sports entertainment atm. Just has shit to work with and isnt allowed to use his actual material on mic. Ill say it again in-ring being a babyface probably suits him better but the guy is a heel wit his whole demeanor and mic skills and being a cookie-cutter would kill his persona
> 
> I may be in the minority but I think Kane's team hell no run has been his best in-ring. To the guy doing the list , wouldnt be shocked if his tag matches with bryan against shield are very high on the list


Yeah I expect a lot of Hell No matches to. Especially the one rematch from extreme rules for the tag titles.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well, I watched Orton/Game from The Bash 2009 for the first time since it happened. It had some promise early when Orton started working over the knee of Triple H, which he had injured on Raw that week. It then just kind of fell apart after Triple H got himself DQ'ed and they blew through the next fall. Oh well, **1/4.

Think I'll do some non-gimmick Game matches for a bit. Too many gimmick matches after a while get to be a bit much. Think I'll avoid this WCW retirement tour of 2003 for as long as I can also. Oh I know, WM 20 and Backlash triple threat time.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Ziggler should lose the belt tomorrow. The guy sucks and is a terrible champion.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've really forgotten how awesome Raw 2004 was in the ring. Been watching some of these Evolution tags and it's been one awesome match after another. Shelton, Benoit and Orton have a good one with Evolution a couple of weeks after Unforgiven but it will probably miss the cut because Orton is barely there and is "knocked out" for half the match and only returns in the last minute to tag himself in and get the pin. Now checking out his first match with Edge from May. Then tomorrow I'll also rewatch that 30 minute elimination tag with Benoit/Jericho/Edge.



Fandango said:


> Ziggler should lose the belt tomorrow. *The guy sucks and is a terrible champion.*


Dunno why this sentence made me laugh. :lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Evolution tags from that period were consistently awesome. Great teamwork, plus they had tonnes of talent to go up against at the time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you guys are killing my with the ziggler comments :lol ima do a project of his matches one of theses days.

His best character was best when he had the #heel gimmick and 2010 as well.

I get a channel that replays raw and sd ever Saturday night. I went out last night so ima stay in and catch smackdown since I already saw raw


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

I'd say the worst PPV main event matches since 2003 were...

2003: World Champion Triple H vs. Steiner at Royal Rumble. DUD.
2004: Undertaker vs. Dudley Boyz at The Great American Bash. ★1/2
2005: World Champion Batista vs. JBL at The Great American Bash. DUD.
2006: World Champion Booker T vs. Batista at SummerSlam. DUD.
2007: WWE Champion Cena vs. Khali at One Night Stand. ★★
2008: World Championship Scramble at Unforgiven. ★★1/4
2009: WWE Champion Triple H vs. Orton at WrestleMania 25. ★
2010: WWE Champion Orton vs. Barrett at Bragging Rights. ★
2011: WWE Champion Cena vs. Truth at Capitol Punishment. DUD.
2012: Cena vs. Laurinaitis at Over the Limit. DUD.
2013: WWE Champion Punk vs. Rock at Royal Rumble. ★


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The '#heel' gimmick was genuinely awful. I wouldn't really count it as a gimmick, but it's a dumbass nickname to have if nothing else. Why would you call yourself a heel on TV? That's completely idiotic. He just does it to sound 'smart' and 'hip' or some bullshit. I have no idea why on Earth he or anybody else would think it'd be a good idea to call yourself a 'heel' on TV. It feels like he caters to the internet fans, and I absolutely don't think that's a good thing at all. 


I totally missed the NXT episode with Cesaro v. Generico or whatever shitty One Direction name he has now. I HATE ME.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think they were get him away from the perfection gimmick because it was a carbon copy of mr perfect. I like the hell thing it was funny and cool with the whole reality thing after punk's promo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You told me you would watch it too. I feel betrayed. 

</3


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gonna watch punk/bryan otl 12 to get a final vedict, For such a horrible year storyline wise 2012 produced some good ppv matches. May do a top 10
yea I think I will


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2012 some great matches. Watch anything with Sheamus and you'll be guaranteed of something good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I already have watched: hhh/taker HIAC, cena/brock, hunter/brock, the punk/y2j series, and ziggler/sheamus so I have most of the good-great ppv matches down.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> I think they were get him away from the perfection gimmick because it was a carbon copy of mr perfect. I like the hell thing it was funny and cool with the whole reality thing after punk's promo.


I was probably the only person the planet that didn't see much of a connection between Ziggler and Perfect . I mean I get he had a perfect gimmick and had a towel and shit, but, I didn't think it was *that* similar. I liked Dolph Ziggler the Narcissist. I mean he's still kind of a narcissist now, but it feels like the wrong kind of narcissist. 



Obfuscation said:


> You told me you would watch it too. I feel betrayed.
> 
> </3


Ahhhh. I'm definitely watching Cesaro v. Sheamus II today. That airs in like an hour, I think.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can you managed to stomach a streaming site like Dailymotion for twelve minutes? b/c the links you sent me on the other place had that NXT show with the match in full to view. It's the first match on the show too with no bs before it.

If you miss that one well, you'll have nothing to care about from WWE. Till the next Cesaro match. Oh wait, you mean the one from Smackdown and not Main Event. Son of a. I need to watch that one too. I think this is like their fourth match total. You threw me off. :hayley2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I was probably the only person the planet that didn't see much of a connection between Ziggler and Perfect . I mean I get he had a perfect gimmick and had a towel and shit, but, I didn't think it was *that* similar. *I liked Dolph Ziggler the Narcissist. I mean he's still kind of a narcissist now, but it feels like the wrong kind of narcissist. *
> 
> 
> 
> Ahhhh. I'm definitely watching Cesaro v. Sheamus II today. That airs in like an hour, I think.


Yea thats him at his best character wise and one of the many reasons he is my has been my favorite since Shawn, he is a narcissist but he backs it up in the ring (sorry to sound like a mark).I felt he portrayed that very well from late 10-11 with the #heel gimmick, I actually think contray to what it should be he has become less of a narcissist when now with aj and big e and with the "show-off" gimmick full blown. It doesnt even seem like he is the focus in his own stable anymore which isnt right

Currently watching smackdizzle ( called it that since I was a kid)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what has hurt Dolph the most. He kind of has a personality, but when you look at it, he truly doesn't. He's a "show off" yet gets little to no chance to ever to so. He's a heel, yet he's not really all that much of a heel with the way he works. It's unusual. Still dig the guy. Always will I'm sure, but sheesh. The company doesn't give him much to work with. Not an excuse; merely an observation.

I'm still behind a face turn. Not Cena should go heel style bickering, more along the lines of "WWE make this guy do something he can actually work with" type gripe. Idk. Dolph's cool. He could be cooler is what I'm driving home at. Meanwhile Miz is a face and he's the absolute worst at it. Go figure.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I want a Bryan/Dolph fued before he turns face.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Yawn at a Dolph-Brian feud*, Brian needs someone, a little more advanced in the field of in-ring wrasslin, try someone like Cena, simply due to Cena being the much greater worker than the latter.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Kofi Kingston vs. Antonio Cesaro - _Main Event 5/1/13_ - ****1/2*

Good match with lots of back and forth action. A few sloppy moments here and there, but Cesaro's superplex from the apron made up for it. It's amazing how much better Cole is on commentary when he doesn't have Jerry Lawler dragging him down with stupid remarks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Dolph has happened enough to the point where we've seen all their good stuff. It wouldn't be a negative to see them rage war; Danielson is clearly way past Dolph on the pecking order at this point.

Funny how Dolph is World Champion yet Danielson feels like a notch of two higher than him currently. That's how WWE books their champions, ladies and gentlemen. Good for Danielson, at least. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You feel that way because wwe has given you a reason to give a damn about ziggler which is sad. Bryan is tge best worker but ziggler could also be in the same position as Bryan. Cena works a better main event style but ziggler overall is the better worker IMO


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Someone made a thread a few days ago about how the WHC is the 5th most important title in the WWE right now. I'd argue that it's the 6th most important now actually.

WWE
Tag Team
US
IC
Divas
WHC

Is how I'd rank them. Quite sad honestly. Get the strap off this joke and put it on someone else. At least Del Rio gave the title a shred of credibility.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'm sorry but I hate your Ziggler ballsucking so much. He hasn't proven anything except he can bounce off a mat and exaggerate things to the point where it's stupid. With that said I see the appeal of Ziggy/Bryan. Give Ziggler more time to play with and ofc anything Ziggler lacks Bryan can make a minor part of the match. I just want to see what he can do. plz give him an opportunity WWE!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't put Dolph over Cena, in the slightest, as an overall worker.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Fandango said:


> Someone made a thread a few days ago about how the WHC is the 5th most important title in the WWE right now. I'd argue that it's the 6th most important now actually.
> 
> WWE
> Tag Team
> ...


Eh, Divas title might as well not exist. Sometimes weeks past and we don't even hear about it. Either that or I miss it. 

Dolph's reign has been unfortunate, in that he's been hurt a good bit, and they certainly didn't help matters by having him get pinned clean by Del Rio on Smackdown in his first match back. I also think Big E and AJ are holding him back now. He needs to win on his own, doesn't matter if they aren't clean, but needing 2 extra people to win every match gets old. I know similar things have happened in the past, but Dolph hasn't been on his own in years.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

At least the Divas title actually has a bit of a feud revolving it which is entertaining compared to the crap we've seen with divas in recent years. I hate AJ but she played a good heel the other night on Raw.

Ziggler on the other hand is a joke. He's one of those vanilla midgets that Kevin Nash likes to talk about.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

@bigbuxx 

No need to result to insulting with statements containing words like "ballsucking" and what not. You can get your point across, without it and overall, it makes your argument look even more weaker.

On a related note, I'd take Cena, far and away, as a worker. His babyface performances are reaching that Eddie, Foley level.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It probly is the 6th most important title in company and being in a feud with momentum black hole himself del too doesn't help much. Ziggler character is horrible ATM because wwe doesn't have faith in himself but know he makes his opponents look good and was semi over. His character is so stale because they make him say the same thing every damn time he gets face time 

Some think he isoverrated as worker and matches aren't that great because not much effort are put into them . No story just week long filler feuds of two guys throw together and get 15 mins. He makes the best out of it


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Aj and big e are most definitely holding him back. Turn e face already and let ziggler be by himself for like the first time since his feud with Rey back in 09


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I still can't believe they're letting Tamina Snuka waste away (think I saw her on NXT recently), someone who can really wrestle, and they're using Nattie as a valet to someone who can barely walk.

I'm glad this secret admirer story is done. Big E's bit with Kaitlyn on Raw was awkward on several levels. AJ was entertaining, though. I think she could be fine as a face or heel.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> @bigbuxx
> 
> No need to result to insulting with statements containing words like "ballsucking" and what not. You can get your point across, without it and overall, it makes your argument look even more weaker.


I apologize to him if he feels insulted but I highly doubt he feels that way. He knows I respect him and he knows he's a Ziggler mark. I wasn't making an argument with that line, it was a fact (or observation if you will).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh yea forgot hell no and orton/shield from fri gets a ****1/4 from me. Loved it and a couple minutes longer it could of been right up there with punk/taker and punk/ cena of this year


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah no offense taken bigbuxx haha it's all good man ill be the first to admit I mark for the guy

Edit: I mark for the guy but not in a gay way like ur comment may be misinterpreted :lmao


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I tend to fast forward through most of Smackdown. I only watch promos and match endings or big matches like Undertaker/Ambrose


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're all a ballsucker for someone in the sport. Not that there is anything wrong with that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Can you managed to stomach a streaming site like Dailymotion for twelve minutes? b/c the links you sent me on the other place had that NXT show with the match in full to view. It's the first match on the show too with no bs before it.
> 
> If you miss that one well, you'll have nothing to care about from WWE. Till the next Cesaro match. Oh wait, you mean the one from Smackdown and not Main Event. Son of a. I need to watch that one too. I think this is like their fourth match total. You threw me off. :hayley2


I tried to watch the Cesaro/Generico from the link that that dude put up, but the video is jumpy. Just my luck.

Cesaro v. Sheamus on SmackDown didn't disappoint. Big slugfest with awesome shit like Sheamus' throw into the barricade and Cesaro busting him open (yeah...blood) a little on the steps. The brogue kick is a completely satisfying surprise finish. Feels so refreshing in a company where 'surprise' finishers like the RKO are built to with Orton's pathetic mental fishhead seizures. I really don't like that Sheamus and Cesaro seem to be pushed down on the card, but if they are pushed down together and get to have a string of matches where they pull off great stuff then, hell, I'll get on board to some degree. Really, though, this should have been the 2013 US title feud. Or, IC title, since it'd feel wrong to not give Ambrose the belt this year. Who the fuck is the IC champion right now? I genuinely, with all my heart and soul, have no fucking clue who is currently holding that belt.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Wade Barrett :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ugh, Barrett. Why does he still have a job there? Does he even get a reaction? How is he a better choice than Cesaro or Sheamus. Hell, I think Santino's better than Barrett.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck all of this "Dolph Talk" and FUCK Wade "British Randy Orton" Barrett.

Mark Henry or The Big Show

Better worker at his peak?

Better body of overall work?

I'm going to withhold my answers for now, AAAND GO.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Mark Henry, because I never liked Show


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Better work at his peak - :henry1

Better body of overall work - :show

Henry's Hall of Pain run is quality, quality stuff. The definition of a monster heel. He single handedly restored credibility in the WHC because he was built up so well before he won the belt. A number of great matches against the likes of Orton, Punk, Sheamus, and more. Besides this run, not a whole lot stands out from Mark.

However overall work has to go to Big Show. From his series of matches with Lesnar in 02/03 to his work Taker, John Cena, Angle, an EPIC run as ECW Champion (the best champion in that pathetic brand's history, bar none), Sheamus, and list goes on and on. Not to mention that Show carried Floyd Mayweather to the GOAT Celebrity vs. Pro Wrestler match. Yeah, this one ain't close.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Henry for both, but I think they're close career v. career. Still, Henry was better in Show's best years of 2011 and 2008. Henry was also really great in 2006, was the best wrestler on the Raw brand in 2003, and looked terrific in 2004 and 2012 where he sadly got injured only a few months in. Hell, he was only around for half of 2006 and had an awesome year. Again, I think they're really close, but they're similar characters and I think Henry does it better. Show's arguably had more good stuff, but I think Henry's good is better than Show's good. If I were ranking wrestlers they'd probably be within two spots of each other, and it feels like a see-saw comparison I could go back and forth on. 

I like the Henry v. Rey, Hardy, Finlay, Orton, Sheamus, and Bryan match-ups more than most from Show. Throw in the guys Henry had a singular awesome match with, like Punk on Raw which is way better than any Punk v. Show, Taker on SD which I seriously think is fucking with the best of Show v. Taker (the LMS kind of disappointed me on last watch, I thought Henry's best three or four matches from the same year were better), Henry v. Benoit in 2006, Henry v. Jericho in 2004, Henry v. Goldberg in 2003, Henry v. Christian in 2011....there are a lot more good Henry matches than he's given credit for. Henry v. Show is obviously in favour of both guys, but Henry was easily the better of the two in the feud. Hell, I thought Henry was the best guy in every feud he had in 2011, from the Orton feud, to the Sheamus feud, to the Bryan feud, to the great match with Rey. Fuck, man, he was on par with _Rey_. I'm absolutely not going to discount the fact I could have bias involved in saying what I'm saying, but, truthfully, I do think Henry's better than big Wight.

I will say I'm not positive Henry's ever had a match as good as Show v. Eddie. I have to watch the Bryan cage match again as that seems like the only thing fucking with it, but man, that match (and Shows' performance in the match) was mind-blowing.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I would take Show's peak over Henry's peak, in-ring wise. Same with overall work.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would certainly pick Henry's peak over Show's. Henry's 2011 WHC run was the second best WHC reign ever behind Benoit. The man just knew how to fill up the idle time that was once his biggest weakness with his trash talking. He really started to embrace the black in him, thus making him more intimidating and cooler. I also have his 4/2/12 match with Punk over every Big Show match except for maybe the LMS match against Taker. Show probably has the greater overall body of work, but I need to go through Henry's 2003, 2006, and 2008 again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I tried to watch the Cesaro/Generico from the link that that dude put up, but the video is jumpy. Just my luck.
> 
> Cesaro v. Sheamus on SmackDown didn't disappoint. Big slugfest with awesome shit like Sheamus' throw into the barricade and Cesaro busting him open (yeah...blood) a little on the steps. The brogue kick is a completely satisfying surprise finish. Feels so refreshing in a company where 'surprise' finishers like the RKO are built to with Orton's pathetic mental fishhead seizures. I really don't like that Sheamus and Cesaro seem to be pushed down on the card, but if they are pushed down together and get to have a string of matches where they pull off great stuff then, hell, I'll get on board to some degree. Really, though, this should have been the 2013 US title feud. Or, IC title, since it'd feel wrong to not give Ambrose the belt this year. Who the fuck is the IC champion right now? I genuinely, with all my heart and soul, have no fucking clue who is currently holding that belt.


Terrible (N)

I'll watch tomorrow as I wait out Payback to pop up online. Their match from Main Event about reached my pinnacle of joy, so a competent rematch is above and beyond what I was asking for from WWE. (b/c I didn't expect it.) Sheamus is a tad lowered atm, but he's the wonderful workhorse main eventer. He's Benoit. He'll go down the card to work with lower tier guys and have insane matches with 'em. I won't object. Meh, screw the pecking order. If you are excellent, it'll show. That simple. Of course I'd LIKE to have the top workers get the top spots, but hey, it's wrestling. We know that never always happens.

Wade Barrett is a useless guy right now. I like him and I know it. Fact. He's WAYYYYY lost in the sea of booking than Dolph Ziggler & Cesaro combined. _(two more heels whom booking clearly has nothing for atm. lolz @ one being the world champ, sheesh.)_ Did you see Sheamus vs Barrett from Main Event a week before the Cesaro match? It was fantastic. I'm talking a Wade match you should probably even like too. Had the surprise finish of the Brougue Kick and everything. Much more competent Wade in this one. You know, the one we've seen about less than ten times in his WWE career.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Haven't seen Sheamus v. Barrett yet, no. My WWE viewing this year has sucked. I still haven't seen Show v. Del Rio LMS, Punk v. Cena from Raw or anything from WrestleMania. I trust myself enough to catch up one day like I mostly did with 2012 and 2011, though. I won't watch Payback unless it gets a hugely positive reception. Naturally I'll cherry pick in a year and watch whatever is supposed to be good. Hopefully they are short on matches and feed someone to Cesaro.  I loved those Cesaro PPV squashes in 2012.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was hoping you would. Curious to see if you would have liked it. Dunno if you saw any of their matches from 2012 either. Sheamus is easily the guy who brings the most out of Barrett.

I'm not expecting much from Payback. Probably Punker vs Jericho will work & of course Danielson's match delivering. Rest I'm iffy on as a whole. Well, I'm wanting Ambrose vs Kane to be fun. I think it could, yet it could be a flop too. Kind of was on RAW, tbf.

If for some reason Cesaro had a match I'd flip out. btw, Henry is returning on Monday. Head's up if you weren't aware or forgot. Here's to hoping he makes a statement or has a quality match. OH, did you know it seems like Cesaro may join Zeb Colter? All speculation but from RAW last week or whenever he defeated Sin Cara, Zeb was ringside putting him over. I'll be for it on the aspect of him getting back in a better position. I'd prefer completely solo, but if anyone had to be paired with him - only Heyman or Colter would do the job for me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I knew there was a Henry video package but I didn't know he was coming back THIS soon. 

I'd rather Cesaro not be paired with anyone, but if he gets decently lengthy matches where he can be showcased then I won't file too much of a complaint.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I really keep wondering if 2013 has been, despite shitty PPV quality bar a couple of matches, the best year for TV in-ring stuff in the entire PG Era, and maybe since 2005. All the solid-good-great matches I can count, and maybe I'm still missing:

- Cena/Punk _(arguably the best Raw match since Cena/HBK 2007, or maybe even before that)_
- Shield/Dazzlers of Destruction
- Shield/Team Hell No (ER rematch)
- Shield/Team Hell BOOM
- Shield/Team Hell Cena _(both of them, though the 1st one was better)_
- Shield/Team Hell RK-NO _(both of them)_
- Shield/Ryberimus
- Bryan/Rollins
- Cesaro/Kofi ME
- Cesaro/Sheamus _(All of them)_
- Cesaro/Orton ME
- Ziggler/ADR ME and Smackdown
- ADR/Swagger Smackdown
- Team Hell No/Car Stereo
- Regal/Ohno
- Cesaro/Neville
- Cesaro/Zyan
- Punk/Jericho
- Bryan/Jericho
- Bryan/Ziggler before WM
- Barrett/Miz/Jericho
- Barrett/Sheamus _(one of them was pretty excellent this year)_
- Barrett/Miz after WM
- Bryan/Ryback I
- Bryan/Ambrose
- Taker/Ambrose _(really good for the 5 minutes it got)_
- ADR/Show LMS
- Cena/Ziggler before the finishers
- Orton/Cody on Raw
- Cesaro/Cara _(this last one, thought it worked just fine)_
- Ambrose/Kane I
- Jericho/Wyatt
- Sheamus/Sandow Tables
- Sheamus/Ziggler ME

And I'm sure there's still more out there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I knew there was a Henry video package but I didn't know he was coming back THIS soon.
> 
> I'd rather Cesaro not be paired with anyone, but if he gets decently lengthy matches where he can be showcased then I won't file too much of a complaint.


Surprised me too. Figured his post-Extreme Rules comment of "I'm going home" was a sure fire sign he would be out for a bit. It ended up only being for the Payback build instead. :mark:

Indeed. Almost a "take what we can get" type mantra.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HALL OF PAIN


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THAT'S WHAT I DO.

:henry1

all that needs to be said. ~!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Highlight of the year.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

I really wish more people would appreciate Henry more.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I do too, but at the very least he's seemed to warm up to everybody starting 2011. Hell....I wasn't his biggest fan until 2011. I didn't 'get' it. I thought he was awesome in 2011, and at the same time realised he hadn't changed a whole lot from when I didn't really dig him. Then I was like 'wait a fucking minute....', went back and watched older Henry and realised I was scum for not thinking the world of him. SCUM! I do wish people would see he's been really good for years, but if they only like him for 2011 then that's better than nothing. I'm always pleasantly surprised when I go into Henry-related threads and see 95% positive posts about him.

He definitely does have a better 'resume' of matches than people think, I think (THINKITHINK)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean you didn't like him in 2008? No way I was the only guy who actually liked Henry back then. That was the year I decided to look at him as a good wrestler/premiere worker. From there on out I was like _"oh awesome, it's Mark Henry"_. Even while on RAW smiling away. Loved how over he got in the span of one night. Mr. Kool Aid man days were fun. 2011 came along and blew it out of the water. Hall of Pain Henry is a blessing. Opened up eyes of damn near everybody. (I hate to exclude myself b/c it sounds pretentious as FUCK, but I really did like him while he went to ECW )

He's certainly appreciated these days. I don't want to say "more" b/c I really didn't think he was at all before 2011. He is now. That's what matters. And that includes from his pre-2011 years too when people go back and watch. It's a better time for Mark Henry & his fans.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I'll be watching the two HBK/HHH/Benoit matches later, see which one I prefer. Havnt watched the WM20 one in years and don't remember a thing from Backlash.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM20 is ***** for me, and Backlash is close with ****3/4. A phenomenal Triple Threat saga.

Which makes me think: which is the most overrated match of all three men in this?

HHH would probably be the WM 22 match vs Cena (good but not a classic), HBK definitely the Iron Man match vs Bret (***** ratings out there), and Benoit is the RR 03 match vs Angle (psychology = 0).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So........Daniel Bryan, eh?

I'm so happy he was the guy to finally beat the Shield. So much better than Cena or HHH or Taker getting the nod and I still can't believe how freaking crazy the fans get during the matches. Just wow. 

*SD 6 man - ***3/4*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DANIEL FUCKING BRYAM


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Remember when some people thought The Shield would go a year without losing a six man? Danielson dashes those thoughts in his sleep.

Danielson & his rise :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wonder if Bryan could carry 2013 Rock to the classic Punk never got out of him...

Oh who am I kidding, he's BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON, who had **** stuff with The Miz of all people :dazzler


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So much fun to watch. I'm fully on the beautiful baby Bryan bandwagon. 

:bryan2

Payback predicts:

Cena
Punk
Shield
Ambrose
Ziggler
AJ
Axel

Shitty ass card that I don't care about outside of the Shield stuff tbh. I'll check that out tomorrow and anything else if they seem worth it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HHH vs Chris Benoit vs HBK - Wrestlemania 20

*****

Fucking loved pretty much every minute of it, great action and spots all the wat through, but with a solid story told between all three men, Benout's quest for the prize, and HBK/HHH's on going personal rivalry.

Gotta get a GIF of the 3-4 seconds of this:












Watching Backlash now


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> So much fun to watch. I'm fully on the beautiful baby Bryan bandwagon.
> 
> :bryan2
> 
> ...


My predictions are exactly the same. It's a very predictable and uneventful card tbh, but nonetheless I'm still going to stay up to watch it. The great Chicago crowd should make it a more enjoyable show to watch. I'm hoping it will be a better show than Extreme Rules at least, really didn't care for that show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> You mean you didn't like him in 2008? No way I was the only guy who actually liked Henry back then. That was the year I decided to look at him as a good wrestler/premiere worker. From there on out I was like _"oh awesome, it's Mark Henry"_. Even while on RAW smiling away. Loved how over he got in the span of one night. Mr. Kool Aid man days were fun. 2011 came along and blew it out of the water. Hall of Pain Henry is a blessing. Opened up eyes of damn near everybody. (I hate to exclude myself b/c it sounds pretentious as FUCK, but I really did like him while he went to ECW )


I barely watched ECW. I did start appreciating him more in 2010, but it was 2011 where he just clicked with the 'this is fucking GREAT' part of my brain. Looking back he was awesome as shit in 2008 (as early as 2003, for that matter) and I feel silly.



ATF said:


> Which makes me think: which is the most overrated match of all three men in this?
> 
> HHH would probably be the WM 22 match vs Cena (good but not a classic), HBK definitely the Iron Man match vs Bret (***** ratings out there), and Benoit is the RR 03 match vs Angle (psychology = 0).


Benoit - Cage match with Angle, probably. The Rumble match doesn't really hold up at all, but that match was 65% good match and 35% dogshit. The cage match was at least 90% dogshit. Just a terrible match, and the lack of 'psychology' and stuff is actually way worse than in the Rumble match.
Michaels - matches with Angle, most of the Jericho matches, whichever HHH matches people think are great.
HHH - Honestly I'm not sure. Matches with him in it I don't like a whole bunch seems to be matches that most don't like a whole bunch. The Mania 3-way itself is a decent pick for me, tbh. It's a 'good not great' match to me. Same with the Foley HIAC. I don't think any of the Michaels matches at this point are 'very good'. Ah, wait, it's probably the Cell with Taker now. That Mania 17 match with Taker is kind of crummy, as well, and people like that.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Daniel Bryan gets my blood pumping, like no one else in the ring. I don't know if its the crowd going berserk for him or those G5-plane-esqiue in speed, suicide dives. Everything about him, just screams :mark worthy.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i wouldnt call their WM17 match overrated. not many like it iirc


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didn't realise Backlash 2004 was in Canada 'till I heard the "You screwed Bret" chants lol 

HBK having the gaul to put the Sharpshooter on Benoit, then who comes running to the ring as replacement ref......why its good old Earl Hebner.

Not as good as Mania, still enjoyed it, but just not as special. ****1/2 from me.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I liked their WM17 match, It wasn't as typical as the majority of brawls within AE, ala Rock-Austin WM15, Rock-Taker KOTR. It felt different, but its covering gave off the same visual.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*Most Overrated Benoit Matches*
vs. Kurt Angle - Steel Cage
w/ Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio and Edge - No Mercy
w/ Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio and Edge vs Los Guerreros - Survivor Series (???)
vs. Kurt Angle - Royal Rumble 2003

*Most Overrated Shawn Michaels Matches*
vs. Triple H - Summerslam 2002
vs. Chris Jericho - Entire 2008 Series bar No Mercy
vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 26 (It's great, realy fucking great, but not GMOAT-Level like many say it is)

*Most Overrated Triple H Matches*
vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000 - o) (See Shawn/Taker WM26)
vs. Shawn Michaels - Summerslam 2002
vs. The Undertaker - Wrestlemania 27

and just for the shits and giggles

*Most Underrated Chris Benoit Match*
vs. Edge - Backlash 2005 and/or Smackdown 2007

*Most Underrated Shawn Michaels Match*
w/ Marty Jannetty vs. Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson - MSG 23/1/1989

*Most Underrated Triple H Match*
vs. Eugene - Summerslam 2004 OR vs The Big Show - NYR 2006


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Most underrated Benoit match is his with Orton in 2006 before the rumble of that year, Near perfect at a ****1/2 rating and vastly superior to their bout at Summerslam, two years before. I believe it was NHB/NO DQ as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Most overrated/underrated for the Mania triple threat guys:

Benoit:
I like the Angle stuff so I don't know if I have a definitive "overrated"
Underrated - the Orton series from 2005/2006 all don't get the credit they deserve

HHH:
Overrated - vs Cactus Jack RR (don't quite get the appeal of this one) and vs Taker at WM27 (defines OVERRATED)
Underrated - vs Eugene SS and vs Benoit from Vengeance

HBK:
Overrated - vs Angle WM21, vs Bret ironman
Underrated - vs Orton SVS, vs Benoit Raw from May,


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the sake of it, Shield rankings:
_(2-on-2 included)_:
1) vs Hell No and Ryback TLC (****3/4)
2) vs Hell No and Kofi (****1/4)
3) vs Hell No and Taker (****)
4) vs Justice League EC (****)
5) vs Hell No and Orton SD (****)
6) vs Jericho, Ryback and Sheamus (****)
7) vs Hell No and Cena (***3/4)
8) vs Hell No ER rematch (***3/4)
9) vs Hell No and Orton Raw (***1/2)
10) vs Hell No and Cena Elimination (***1/2)
11) vs Show, Sheamus and Orton (***1/4)
12) vs Sheamus, Orton and Kofi (***1/4)
13) vs Hell No ER (***)
14) vs Tons Of Funk and Kofi (***)
15) vs Khali, Ryder and Gabriel (**) (Just to see them kick jobber ass)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1. vs Hell No & Ryback (TLC) - ★★★★½
2. vs Hell No & Orton (Raw) - ★★★★
3. vs Hell No & Kofi - ★★★¾
4. vs Hell No & Orton (SD) - ★★★¾
5. vs Hell No & Taker (Raw) - ★★★¾

Gonna check out the EC and WM matches because it's been a while.

ATF, you forgot at least one match. Shield (minus Ambrose) vs Bryan & Orton from last SD. That's definitely better than the jobber matches at the bottom. And didn't they also have a match in Main Event a couple of months back?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, haven't seen it yet. Going to now.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Nice blog, ATF. Is it new?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Have it for a while, but A LOT of opinions changed since then.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Must of missed it, while reading your posts. Nonetheless, keep up the good work, I especially like your technique of not listing the matches within text format, thus enticing vistors to watch your video to increase views, a viral burst might occur. Great promotional method, (Y) .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thx bro (Y)

Speaking of my blog, imma go for something new into it. My WWE ***** Matches that is.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

So, I won TLC 2012 on Blu-Ray this past Monday from WWE Home Video UK. I forgot it had The Shield vs Ryback/Team Hell No.

I remember enjoying the match, I think. Was it really that good?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still havnt watched the Shield TLC match, thought I was the only one lol. I may just buy the ppv when I see it cheap enough.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Glad I'm no longer among the group of people who have yet to watch that TLC match. 

Just finished watching the elimination 6 man tag from Raw after Bad Blood with Evolution vs Benoit, Jericho and Edge. This is even more epic than I remember it being and certainly worth all the hype it's been given. I am going as far as ★★★★¼ with it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

6 Man TLC match from last year is insanely fun

*****1/2*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watched Shield/RK-No from last week's SD, pretty good stuff. Around ***1/2 I'd say.

Also, crossing fingers Payback will be a good show and not the doomed 2nd sequel to MITB 2011 and ER 2012 in terms of Chicago PPV's.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

kinda late when to see man of steel GREAT FUCKING MOVIE

anyway I use to uttlerly HATE show and that he was the worst thing ever. But after watching some gems and saw some recommends I grown actually quite fond of him. FOr his size he is actually a great worker and I heard in a interview of his he is very slow in the ring on purpose.

For henry I like his matches with rey in 06 but after that I didnt start liking him until 2011. He run in 2011 was incredible but I have to take show>henry just for overall body of work

Im doing a top 15 ppv matches of 2012 and already have the most of the good ones fresh in my mind.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> So, I won TLC 2012 on Blu-Ray this past Monday from WWE Home Video UK. I forgot it had The Shield vs Ryback/Team Hell No.
> 
> I remember enjoying the match, I think. Was it really that good?


That match is beast and insanely fun. Had everything I expected/wanted out of it. Great crowd, great performances, great spots, great physicality, great everything. This was Shield's debut match and it started off with a bang. ★★★★1/2

Even attended this PPV and had the best wrestling experience of my life. Barclays Center ruled so much and I'm even attending the Raw 7/15/13 live event there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

No more WWE DVD's from Silvervision from tomorrow.

Gonna miss them (although of course, Clearvision is still here).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn, I envy you for attending such an amazing show. How was Cena/Ziggler live?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

most overrated match for benoit/hhh/hbk

hhh (my hate for him aside)
vengeance 05 batista(one of those classic I just don't get)
rumble 00 foley (see ^^ prefer their HIAC x100)
noc 08 cena

benoit
wm 20

hbk
series with y2j bar no mercy


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/Batista HiaC and the one with Foley from RR were both fucking awesome, dunno why u found them overrated.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top 15 PPV Matches of 2012:

Punk/Bryan OTL: *****3/4*
Shield/Rybell No TLC: *****1/2*
Undertaker/HHH WM: *****1/2*
Cena/Lesnar ER: *****1/2*
Bryan/Sheamus ER: *****1/2*
Punk/Jericho ER: *****1/2*
Punk/Jericho WM: *****1/4*
Punk/Cena NoC: *****1/4*
Punk/Bryan MITB: *****1/4*
Sheamus/Show HIAC: ******
Punk/Bryan/Kane NWO: ******
Punk/Ziggler RR: ****3/4*
Punk/Ziggler/Kingston/Jericho/Miz/Truth EC: ****3/4*
Jericho/Sheamus/Del Rio/Orton OTL: ****3/4*
Ziggler/Sheamus NWO: ****3/4*

DAT PUNK unk


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

^^I would have added the Cena/Ziggler one from TLC, ***3/4 from me for that one


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> HHH/Batista HiaC and the one with Foley from RR were both fucking awesome, dunno why u found them overrated.


IDK I just dont get them and cant get into. I have tried watching the rumle 00 match over 5 times and can never like it that much. I have their HIAC at ****1/2. Im willing to give HHH/Batista another chance


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

admiremyclone said:


> So, I won TLC 2012 on Blu-Ray this past Monday from WWE Home Video UK. I forgot it had The Shield vs Ryback/Team Hell No.
> 
> I remember enjoying the match, I think. Was it really that good?


Yes. Loved it so much it became my MOTY for 2012. Watched it 7 or 8 times and it's a *****3/4* from me. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Top 15 PPV Matches of 2012:
> 
> Punk/Bryan OTL: *****3/4*
> Shield/Rybell No TLC: *****1/2*
> ...


My list:

Shield/Ryback and Hell No TLC: *****3/4*
Punk/Bryan OTL: *****1/2*
Cena/Lesnar ER: *****1/2*
Bryan/Sheamus ER: *****1/4*
Punk/Jericho ER: *****1/4*
Punk/Jericho WM: ******
Taker/HHH WM: ******
Punk/Cena NoC: ******
Sheamus/Show HIAC: ****3/4*
Cena/Ziggler TLC: ****3/4*
Jericho/Sheamus/Del Rio/Orton OTL: ****3/4*
Ziggler/Sheamus NWO: ****3/4*
Punk/Ziggler RR: ****1/2*
Bryan/Kane/Punk NWO: ****1/2*
Jericho/Ziggler SS: ****1/2*


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'm not that big a fan of the Rumble '00 Street Fight either. Great violence and all, but it's completely weird for me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

judging by funnyfaces and nostagia's list mine is gonna turn some heads. I 20 matches down and I already have 2 ***** matches

Edit: I never will understand why I dont like the rumble 00 match either.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

BRyan/Punk from OTL is definetely ***** for me, so is Cena/Lesnar ER match but I liked the OTL one more because of my ROH love


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I need to rewatch Punk/Bryan OTL one of these days... Shield TLC would be a top 3 2012 for me.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Srdjan99 said:


> BRyan/Punk from OTL is definetely ***** for me, so is Cena/Lesnar ER match but I liked the OTL one more because of my ROH love


OTL is my Favourite of the 2012 along with Sheamus/Bryan match at Extreme Rules both *****

I'd give their MiTB match a ****, it's underrated too. Never understood the appeal of Cena/Lesnar to be honest.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I didn't like their MITB one so much, only ***1/2 from me. AJ kinda destroyed that match for me


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> HHH/Batista HiaC and the one with Foley from RR were both fucking awesome, dunno why u found them overrated.


This past week I watched HHH/Batista in HiaC for the first time. Aside from a bunch of bumping on HHH's side and some weapons the match was meh. It fell flat to me and I didn't enjoy it.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Srdjan99 said:


> I didn't like their MITB one so much, only ***1/2 from me. AJ kinda destroyed that match for me


I never understand why they based that whole feud around AJ:no:.IT seems WWE wanted her to come out the star and all it did was cause her more damage. Horrible actress and one of the most overrated diva's on the roster. Bryan and Punk would have easily have gotten a feud over by themselves Anyway, I like the MITB match but it does lose a bit when AJ gets involved later in the match but the ending was great both guys came out looking strong.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Time to light up and watch some Henry.

Who else is down?

:henry1


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This should be great. I just discovered a video of a house show match between Randy Orton and Rey Mysterio from the WM22 Revenge Tour. Will see how this holds up compared to their other awesome matches!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5j155_wm22-revenge-tour-orton-vs-mysterio_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5j18h_wm22-revenge-tour-orton-vs-mysterio_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5j1b7_wm22-revenge-tour-orton-vs-mysterio_sport


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry-Morrison matches own. Both in 2011 are under five minutes, yet manage to accomplish far more than all of the Orton-Henry TV matches in 2011 do despite having far more time to work with. The two finishing world's strongest slams were completely awesome and Morrison's selling of Henry;s offense was quite amazing as well.

Henry-Bryan series incoming :mark:.

Just decided that if they turn Bryan heel instead of Orton, I'm going to fucking MURDER somebody. It's exactly the kind of shit that the WWE would pull and it would be the fucking dumbest move they've pulled in quite some time both character AND business wise. Bryan-Cena could be the next BIG thing without having to add in a part timer to the mix, & a way to create that clear cut 1A face that Punk was during his entire face run, he doesn't even really NEED to win the title, just look fucking awesome and pass out in the STF or some shit. 

I have this weird feeling that they'll do Cena-Punk-Bryan at Wrestlemania XXX. Okay, it's not so much of a feeling as it is a dream match for myself, give Bryan the Benoit moment PLZ. WWE LOVES paying tribute to Benoit without actually coming out and paying tribute to him formally, and this would be the ultimate tribute coupled with the ultimate moment for Daniel Bryan's entire fantastic career. 

Cena-Punk-Bryan
Brock-Taker W/HHH

PLEASE? DO WE REALLY FUCKING NEED BROCK-ROCK?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Henry/Bryan Steel Cage is WIN in so many levels.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry/Bryan in the cage is the pinnacle of what a Monster Heel vs Pure Babyface should be in modern day WWE; the heel dominates, the babyface finds & exploits a weakness in the heel, we get some awesome character work, & atleast one moment where no matter how ridiculous it seems the match has us thinking that the babyface could pull it off. It's old-school tactics 101 and I think that we could use more of these matches to help elevate the young talents heading into the future. 

I've always been a huge fan of "X Wrestler gets the world title and proceeds to defend it against a whole host of different guys during the reign" and that works best in two ways; a babyface defending overcoming the odds ALA HBK in 96 against the likes of Bulldog/Vader/Diesel/Mankind , or a monster heel taking on all comers until an underdog babyface finally gives them their comeuppance ala Henry 2011 although I feel that his reign should have been stretched out to Wrestlemania for the ultimate blowoff match with Bryan. WWE seems to cut their monster heel title reigns short these days for some reason, I want a Henry or a Big Show gaining a stranglehold on a world title for 6 months or so and just owning all comers damnit.

Speaking of Punk/Cena/Bryan, just have Bryan win MITB & Punk win the Rumble (YES that means I'm suggesting Cena keep the belt until next Wrestlemania just to make the Bryan win that much sweeter, kind of how they could have used Punk's reign to elevate somebody but ultimately never) or something of that nature. If they wanted to make Bryan the GUY they could have him make Cena tap out, but since there's a negative 9 million percent chance of that happening, Punk tapping out would be fucking huge as well since he hasn't tapped out since God knows when.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The last time Punk tapped was iirc Feb 2011 against, you guessed it, Cena. :cena4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I barely watched ECW. I did start appreciating him more in 2010, but it was 2011 where he just clicked with the 'this is fucking GREAT' part of my brain. Looking back he was awesome as shit in 2008 (as early as 2003, for that matter) and I feel silly.


S'ok. As a youngster I hated Jamie Noble for some unknown reason. Then 2005 happened. Nobody felt as stupid as me. I was an irrational youth who didn't like the country guy who lied about being Japanese. Sue me. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Top 15 PPV Matches of 2012:


Ok, lets see what I can whip up: _(note: I'm leaving off Undertaker vs Trips HIAC till I watch it again)_

1) John Cena vs Brock Lesnar _(Extreme Rules)_ ~ *******

2) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Ryback _(TLC)_ ~ *****3/4*

3) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho _(WrestleMania 28)_ ~ *****1/2*

4) Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan _(Extreme Rules)_ ~ *****1/2*

5) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan _(Money in the Bank)_ ~ *****1/4*

6) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan _(Over The Limit)_ ~ *****1/4 - 1/2*

7) Big Show vs Sheamus _(Hell in a Cell)_ ~ *****1/4*

8) CM Punk vs John Cena _(Night of Champions)_ ~ ******

9) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho _(Extreme Rules)_ ~ ******

10) Big Show vs Sheamus _(TLC)_ ~ ******

11) Big Show vs Sheamus _(Survivor Series)_ ~ ****3/4*

12) Rey Mysterio, Sin Cara, Justin Gabriel, Tyson Kidd, & Brodus Clay vs Tensai, Darren Young, Titus O'Neil, Primo Colon, & Epico _(Survivor Series)_ ~ ****3/4*

13) Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel _(Hell in a Cell)_ ~ ****1/2*

14) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane _(No Way Out)_ ~ ****1/2*

15) Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler _(No Way Out)_ ~ ****1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> The last time Punk tapped was iirc Feb 2011 against, you guessed it, Cena. :cena4


He tapped out at Over the Limit against Bryan in the end, as soon as ref's hand hit the mat for the third count.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> He tapped out at Over the Limit against Bryan in the end, as soon as ref's hand hit the mat for the third count.


That I knew, but officially lose via submission is what not happened there.

'kay, got this idea from a Portuguese wrestling forum. Let's do a small game out here: comparing a certain match to a film. And reasoning why.

I shall start:

Cena vs Punk from MITB 2011 = The Dark Knight.
- Both giant Summer blockbusters;
- Punk was the villain everyone loved, as was Heath Ledger's Joker;
- The quality in both is superb;
- Both changed the landscape of WWE/movies for their reasons;
- Both prompted amazing sequels.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm probably going to do a live rating of all of the matches from tonight's show in here as they come along and give a few bullet point thoughts and whatnot. I have a vested interest in PPV matches for some reason, IDEK WHY as WWE has been disappointing the fuck out of me with 90 percent of their PPV matches this year despite guys like Bryan killing it every week with awesome matches. I mean, between Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber, & Extreme Rules, I think there have been like two really good matches with everything else being average and most being MEH. 

Fuck them for making Henry-Sheamus a four corners strap match. FUCK. I'm still fuming over that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> This should be great. I just discovered a video of a house show match between Randy Orton and Rey Mysterio from the WM22 Revenge Tour. Will see how this holds up compared to their other awesome matches!
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5j155_wm22-revenge-tour-orton-vs-mysterio_sport
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5j18h_wm22-revenge-tour-orton-vs-mysterio_sport
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5j1b7_wm22-revenge-tour-orton-vs-mysterio_sport


Holy shit, so this is, like, NOT their 4/7 or No Way Out match? The fuck? How come I've never heard of this? Could be a MOTYC.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Holy shit, so this is, like, NOT their 4/7 or No Way Out match? The fuck? How come I've never heard of this? Could be a MOTYC.


I randomly came across it while watching some old Orton matches for my list.

But tbh, I was kind of disappointed in it. Nowhere near as good as their other two matches from the same period although you can judge for yourself. If you're hungry for more Rey/Orton, you can always check out their two matches from 2005, though. And they also had another short match before WM27 when Punk appeared on the titantron and it ended there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So Sheamus Vs Sandow was really, really good as the two continue to string together a great little series of matches that really goes unnoticed from time to time. Sheamus was a workhorse as usual and Sandow was no slouch and kept up with him the entire time, would love to see where both men go from here and I wish this had made the PPV as Sheamus is pretty much the company's designated #2 face until Bryan takes that mantle from him while Sandow deserved a spot on here.

STARS? *****. It was really great.

Jiz Vs Axhole Vs Borrett first? YAY.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love the orton/rey 4/7 match so much its moty for 2006 for me

Currently in the middle of Sheamus/bryan er :mark: this is great stuff right here match of the night ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So this bad Axel-Miz-Barrett match could be on the show yet the vastly superior in both star power & quality, I'll never ever understand man. The pacing of the bout was reminiscent of the Night of Champions 2012 opener where it was just a bunch of weirdly placed spots and FALSE FINISHES and shit with little to no character work going on. Miz's "babyface" work is quite atrocious although I kind of liked a little bit of Barrett's offense. Is the ONLY fucking move that Miz knows a flash roll up or what? I thought the finish was really fucking creative though, I'll give it that much.

Stars? *3/4 **. Had a few good spots and a creative finish but nothing else.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

CURTIS YOU LEGEND!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Not exactly sure how to feel about that triple threat match. Some of it was shit, but then there were a few ok bits. Absolutely love that ending though.

MARK HENRY :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

***** for Barrett/Miz/Axel

Pleasantly surprised by this. Some good spots, fast pace back-and-forth, unpredictable action that we all love in triple threat matches, some teased finishes, and the actual finish itself was pretty unique. Awesome Chicago crowd certainly made this match more enjoyable.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I literally am getting all my info about this ppv through KOK live stream lol. I have no interest in it at all. Tell me how ziggler does Evan or anybody watchin


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> ***** for Barrett/Miz/Axel
> 
> Pleasantly surprised by this. Some good spots, fast pace back-and-forth, unpredictable action that we all love in triple threat matches, some teased finishes, and the actual finish itself was pretty unique. Awesome Chicago crowd certainly made this match more enjoyable.


I agree with this rating. It was better than I expected it to be.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Sandow - **3/4
Triple Threat - *** (DAT FINISH)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Perfect :mark: :mark: :mark: 

Pretty crappy match, I feel the same way as Evan, but loved the finish though. 

Stars for it? ** 1/2*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

THe reign of AXel ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kaitlyn/AJ: ***1/4. Not kidding. DAT. FUCKING. SPEAR.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Kaitlyn Vs AJ. Loved the original onslaught by Kaitlyn at the beginning of the match that screamed HATE that we haven't seen in a divas match in quite some time. Actually really enjoyed this for a divas match as a whole, obviously it had a few fundamental issues but the storytelling in here was really fucking solid with the Kaitlyn getting revenge and blowing a kiss only for her thirst for revenge costing her the match, I also love how Kaitlyn does the spear better than both Christian and Edge too. Would love to see this get more intense in the future, am I the only one who was looking forward to this more than Miz-Axel-Barrett? Divas MOTY so far.

*** 3/4 +*.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Didn't pay attention to the divas match except for the last minute when AJ won, but it seems like that match got decent time though. I know that because I watched a 7 minute video on YouTube and by time the video finished the match was still going.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Seriously, that was a fucking good divas match. DAT counter into the first Black Widow. The Spear false finish was great too, really tied into the whole story well. Actually great to see a divas match get some time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I actually want to see a Kaitlyn-AJ rematch on PPV.

THE FUCK?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

That Kaitlyn/AJ match was solid. Good shit, good shit. (Y)


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Good stuff from Aj/Kaitlyn  

Good storytelling and that spear :mark: 

*** 3/4* for me.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That Ambrose/Kane match sucked IMO.

Wait, what? RVD is back?!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Kane-Ambrose was a decently solid affair, classic Kane. Loved the old school spot and I'm a big fan of a ton of Ambrose's mannerisms as most people really are. Ambrose has a deranged side of him that I really enjoy and I see a ton of potential in the guy. It wasn't really GOOD by any means but it certainly wasn't horrendous, had it's moments.... AJ-Kaitlyn was vastly superior.

Stars? ** 3/4*.

RVD at MITB? The Fuck?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FUCK. Both of my streams have stop working. Tried refreshing and trying a different channel, but nothing. Wondered if someone could please send me a link that works through a rep or something. Would really appreciate it.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Wtf RVD..... 

Decent match there, **** for me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheers ABH for the link. Back on just in time for the World Title match which I obviously wanted to see. 

What happened at the end of the Ambrose/Kane match? Thought most of the match was dull, standard stuff and the crowd wasn't really into it which didn't help.

edit: thanks KOK for that link too.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★ for Del Rio/Ziggler. Holy fuck that was dull.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, my stream died. However, it looked like Del Rio/Ziggler was an awesome match with a terrific story being told.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Did we just see a double turn reminiscent of Austin/Hart, in the same city aswell? Del Rio surely going heel, and Ziggler now face after his defiant performance?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

im not watching but if it was bad there is pretty much nothing this two can do anymore that wasnt done in normal singles


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskin25, I'm blown away by your guy (Dolph)! Just seen bits of him here and there before, but he was excellent in this match. Very believable.

He's exactly the type of wrestler that I like, and the storytelling in this match was top notch. 

Someone just gave it two stars?! What?! This is by far the best match I've seen in the WWE in a long-while, and it's funny, because I had no expectations or care for this match.

****, at least, IMO.

I'd probably give it **** 1/2. 

I'm big on storytelling and psychology, and this had both in spades. Plus, it had some nice, athletic, wrestling. What's not to like?!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved Dolph/Del Rio. The double turn that I believe we just witnessed was awesome.

And that loss did more for Ziggler than literally any win did. People are going to be fucking ITCHING for him to get the belt back now. Holy shit WWE did a good job with that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

**** to Ziggler/ADR. Masterful psychology and double turn.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> redskin25, I'm blown away by your guy (Dolph)! Just seen bits of him here and there before, but he was excellent in this match. Very believable.
> 
> He's exactly the type of wrestler that I like, and the storytelling in this match was top notch.
> 
> ...


Eh, I wasn't fond of it all. I found it to be dull.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

LilOlMe said:


> redskin25, I'm blown away by your guy (Dolph)! Just seen bits of him here and there before, but he was excellent in this match. Very believable.
> 
> He's exactly the type of wrestler that I like, and the storytelling in this match was top notch.
> 
> ...


This.

Masterful psychology.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Double turn.

Match was decent, liked Del Rio working on Dolph's head and shit but I have something to say.

FUCK YOU DEL RIO. You boring piece of shit. Despite the fact that you have a Royal Rumble win, a Money in the Bank win, two WWE Championship wins, & two world Championship wins in 3 years with the company, it took a heel turn to get a response out of one of the most lively crowds in recent memory when there were fucking CRICKETS for your entrance.

Not throwing out stars as my complete rage for the result is clouding my judgment.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

not even watching and full of joy about what everyone saying about ziggler match and his turn Im going check the match out tomorrow


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ziggler turning face=(Y) Should be interesting how his face turn goes.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

****1/4 from me for Ziggler/Del Rio. I loved that 99x more than I expected to.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

booned said:


> This.
> 
> Masterful psychology.


Glad most of us agree!

Just to make sure it's clear, I didn't mean what I said with any sort of bad tone, btw, That's Irrelevant. Everyone has different opinions.

And after thinking about it some more, I'd have it up to **** 1/2. I think I was at first hesitant to put it that high up, because I didn't know if I was just reacting too excitedly and too suddenly. But no, it really was that good, and so stood out from the usual stuff I see nowadays. 

I agree with the poster who said that this will make Dolph bigger than if the result were different.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No idea what to rate the Ziggler/Del Rio match yet but loved the double turn. Ziggler needs to be face and hopefully it'll go well.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FUCK THAT FINISH. Del Rio gets another pointless reign as champion. 

But that match was pretty damn awesome. The match is a totally different formula from their previous matches with Del Rio working on Ziggler's head after his concussion, and Ziggler trying to constantly fight back from Del Rio's attacks. The match put Ziggler in a underdog babyface role, and Del Rio as a frustrated wrestler desperately trying to win back his title and even going too far in parts of the match which makes Del Rio come across as a heel. With the crowd firmly in Ziggler's corner you wouldn't think Del Rio was the face and Ziggler was the heel. Ziggler's selling was great throughout the match and makes you think he's legitimately hurt on a few occasions, Ziggler pushing the doctors away made him look like a true fighting face champion despite being heel, and it was great to see. I so wanted to see Ziggler finally overcome all the odds and triumph by retaining the title in some fashion, but it didn't happen, and instead we got a rather poor finish and just from that and the result of the match it knocks the rating down a bit for me, but the match was still damn good. ****3/4* 

But fuck ending Ziggler's reign so soon, he should of held it until Summerslam at the least, judging by the finish of the match it looks like WWE will turn Ziggler face now by praising his fighting champion performance, and that's something I think we all want to see, just out of curiosity of what a face Ziggler could do. 

Sucks that Ziggler's reign was short though, feels like Christian's reign all over again.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> FUCK THAT FINISH. Del Rio gets another pointless reign as champion.
> 
> But that match was pretty damn awesome. The match is a totally different formula from their previous matches with Del Rio working on Ziggler's head after his concussion, and Ziggler trying to constantly fight back from Del Rio's attacks. The match put Ziggler in a underdog babyface role, and Del Rio as a frustrated wrestler desperately trying to win back his title and even going too far in parts of the match which makes Del Rio come across as a heel. With the crowd firmly in Ziggler's corner you wouldn't think Del Rio was the face and Ziggler was the heel. Ziggler's selling was great throughout the match and makes you think he's legitimately hurt on a few occasions, Ziggler pushing the doctors away made him look like a true fighting face champion despite being heel, and it was great to see. I so wanted to see Ziggler finally overcome all the odds and triumph by retaining the title in some fashion, but it didn't happen, and instead we got a rather poor finish and just from that and the result of the match it knocks the rating down a bit for me, but the match was still damn good. ****3/4*
> 
> ...



Ziggler losing sucks but just remember that his loss here is doing way more for his popularity than any win would have. He's going to be huge now.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Not too fond of the result. But loved everything else. 

A total double turn. This was a great story and the work from both guys was great. 

****** from me.

Punk :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Glad most of us agree!
> 
> Just to make sure it's clear, I didn't mean what I said with any sort of bad tone, btw, That's Irrelevant. Everyone has different opinions.
> 
> ...


Nah, it's alright man. I probably jumped the gun by giving it a ★★. I'll have to re-watch it again to see if I'll get into it.

CM GOAT.unk


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Double turn + Del Rio title win sounds perfect (didn't watch/not watching, fwiw). I think Del Rio is a natural babyface, but I prefer him as a heel to Ziggler pretty easily. Ziggler as a face I have wanted to see for nearly two years. Finally. Don't fuck this up.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> Ziggler losing sucks but just remember that his loss here is doing way more for his popularity than any win would have. *He's going to be huge now.*


We'll see on that, but I'm optimistic about a face Ziggler. That match was a perfect example of how much potential a face Ziggler has, his underdog role in matches and his bumping can really get the crowd to sympathize with him and get behind him. It seems for the past year Ziggler's been ready for a face turn, but at least now, maybe, they're finally capitalizing on it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think face Ziggler could really work. 

Good lord, my stream froze and there were a bunch of people in the comment box yelling PEPSI PLUNGE. I got excited for nothing. ~___~


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

That Punk/Jericho match...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk coming back and stealing the show.

Fuck yeah.

**** 3/4*

So is Punk face now or some shit? Is everybody turning tonight?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

****1/2* for Punk/Jericho. DEM MUTTON CHOPS.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My stars and heavens, that match was absolutely amazing. Two straight amazing babyface performances. Let's hope Bryan makes it three!

Sheamus/Sandow: *****
Triple Threat IC: *****
AJ/Kaitlyn: ***3/4*
Kane/Ambrose: ***1/2*
Ziggler/Rio: Didn't see this, but it could seriously be REALLY high
Punk/Jericho: *****1/2*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Jericho: ****1/4. Generic 1st half, awesome 2nd, great storytelling overall.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

****1/2* for Punk/Jericho. Punk didn't steal the show tonight btw, Ziggler did. 



Yeah1993 said:


> Double turn + Del Rio title win sounds perfect (didn't watch/not watching, fwiw). I think Del Rio is a natural babyface, but I prefer him as a heel to Ziggler pretty easily. Ziggler as a face I have wanted to see for nearly two years. Finally. Don't fuck this up.


I know you've been critical of Ziggler, but you should definitely check out that match. Ziggler puts in one hell of a performance in a face role, and if WWE capitalizes on this turn, it could be just a taste of things to come for Ziggler.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

put the ppv on FUCKING AWESOME punk/Jericho ****1/4 imo

I hope your right Brye


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

So awesome show so far?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fucking PPV of the year by far. And gettin' better now :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★★1/2 for Punk/Jericho. MOTN easily.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wow, this has been a good show.

Triple threat - ***
AJ/Kaitlyn - **3/4
Kane/Ambrose - Stream died 
Del Rio/Zig - ****1/4
Punk/Jericho - ****

Predictions:

Orton/Bryan vs Shield - Really good
Ryback/Cena - Maybe surprisingly not that bad


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Good match as expected but I was more impressed with Del Rio/Ziggler. 

**** 3/4* for Punk/Jericho.


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

So far:

Triple Threat - ***
Diva - **
Kane/Ambrose - **
Ziggler / Rio - ****
Punk / Jericho - *** 1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nostalgia said:


> I know you've been critical of Ziggler, but you should definitely check out that match. Ziggler puts in one hell of a performance in a face role, and if WWE capitalizes on this turn, it could be just a taste of things to come for Ziggler.


Oh yeah, I definitely will. I have been critical of Ziggler, but if he bombs as a face now the blame would HAVE to be placed on WWE. He could be a shitty face for all I know, I suppose, but I'd doubt it, and it's up to WWE to kind of just let him be. And probably give him a new ring name. We're kind of numb to "Dolph Ziggler" now but it's a dumb name.



Brye said:


> Predictions:
> 
> Ryback/Cena - Maybe surprisingly not that bad


:side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> :side:


Hell, everything else exceeded my expectations tonight. :side:


----------



## booned (Apr 9, 2008)

Decent tag match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Sandow - **3/4
Triple Threat - ***
Kaitlyn/AJ - ***
Ambrose/Kane - **1/2
Ziggler/ADR - ****
Punk/Jericho - ****1/4
*Shield/RK-No - *****

Safe to say... really awesome show?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

****1/2 punk/y2j

****+ orton/bryan vs reigns/rollins


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Great, GREAT match that time honestly. Orton was kinda really not that great at the beginning but once Bryan was tagged in with the double dropkick & subsequent kip-up I was like FUCK DIS GON' BE GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD. No heel turn or anything but that shit's coming, we're getting Orton-Bryan man I'm telling you. 

Honestly can't wait for Raw is Danielson tomorrow.

**** 1/4* for the Tag Titles, feel like turning off my stream right now but I'm praying that CENA DA GAWD delivers.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

So far:

Miz/Barrett/Axel - ***1/2* - Sloppy but watchable. Finish was awesome.
AJ/Kaitlyn - ***** - Best divas match I've seen in ages, worked the storyline really well throughout.
Kane/Ambrose - *** - Thought this sucked apart from Ambrose attempting Old School.
ADR/Ziggler - Won't rate this yet, was caught up in the moment throughout. Loved the double turn though, really well executed.
Punk/Jericho - ****1/2* - Will watch again, enjoyed it thoroughly despite a generic opening segment. Not sure about the ****+ ratings though at the moment.
Shield/RKNo - ****1/2* - Solid from The Shield as always, still teasing that probably Orton heel turn nicely.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

booned said:


> Decent tag match.


Decent would be the key word here. Wasn't anything great, just a decent match with a nice finish. 

Would probably go something like ***1/2* or ***3/4*.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/ryback time ? Im in such a good mood Im keeping the stream on


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd say about ***1/2 for RK-NO/Shield. Pretty good match but I still like the six man tags the most.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton wasn't good AT ALL in that tag.

OH YAY THEY SAVED THE WORST MATCH FOR LAST :mark:.

(Waits for Cena to prove me wrong)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ratings so far:

Miz/Axel/Barrett - ★½
Kaitlyn/AJ - ★★½
Kane/Ambrose - ★
Del Rio/Ziggler - ★★★¼ (Kinda different but excellent character work and double turn)
Punk/Jericho - ★ (Booooooooooooooooring)
The Shield/Team RK-NO - ★★★¾

They are killing me with that tease. When is Orton gonna fucking turn?!?!?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what are the stips again tables/ambulance/ chairs ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Glad somebody else isn't throwing four stars at everything on the show.

Orton REALLY needs to turn though, this shit is getting to fucking Cena-Esque levels.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Good tag match, obviously not their best match together but pretty good. 

Daniel Fucking Bryan :mark:

**** 1/4* for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> what are the stips again tables/ambulance/ chairs ?


lolmberjack match, tablols match and amblolance match.

Fuck this choppy ass stream. (N)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ oh God, just waiting for the show to end so I can watch ziggler/del rio


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Excited to download this tonight :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fun fact: cena had the moty a year ago in this same building and may have Worst match of the year now


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ugh, all of this time left for Cena/Ryback. :side:



redskins25 said:


> cena/ryback time ? Im in such a good mood Im keeping the stream on


Such a good mood after your favorite wrestler just lost the World Title? 



Choke2Death said:


> Ratings so far:
> 
> Miz/Axel/Barrett - ★½
> Kaitlyn/AJ - ★★½
> ...


Erm, some different ratings to see the least.

Have to lol at the Punk/Jericho rating though, obviously don't agree on *** but I didn't think that match was anything too special though, not *****+* for me. Kind of a glorified TV match between the two, really. And Punk/Jericho ultimately got overshadowed by the great character work and storytelling in the World Title match between Del Rio and Ziggler.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Erm, some different ratings to see the least.
> 
> Have to lol at the Punk/Jericho rating though, obviously don't agree on *** but I didn't think that match was anything too special though, not *****+* for me. Kind of a glorified TV match between the two, really. Punk's return match just wasn't as good as people were probably hoping it to be, and Punk/Jericho ultimately got overshadowed by the great character work and storytelling in the World Title match between Del Rio and Ziggler.


I enjoyed their Wrestlemania match a lot but this one was a different kind of boring. I found it extremely sloppy and slow. Whether Punk was doing some kind of ring-rust character work or genuinely not in ring-shape, I wanted it to end as soon as possible. And then to try and bring some life into it, they just hit finishers again and again.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Well I don't hate anything just yet.

BUT SINCE WHEN DOES CENA GET PINNED LIKE THAT?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Lumberjack match was **, if just for that spot XD


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> Well I don't hate anything just yet.
> 
> BUT SINCE WHEN DOES CENA GET PINNED LIKE THAT?


I can't really complain so far, and yeah, Ryback just pinning Cena clean like that was funny. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Ugh, all of this time left for Cena/Ryback. :side:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yea that pissed me off when I heard about it, but I heard the details after (crowd reaction, double turn etc) he will blow up and get the recognition he deserves. Fuck del rio though, one of the biggest waste in wwe history, a fucking a rock is more interesting and could get a better reaction but they keep giving the guy reigns and more accolades which is bull. They will probably drop the belt to ziggler at mitb or maybe even a raw in the mean time. 

The punk/Jericho also relieved some of my angry as well as agreeing with Brye


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Must say, the Ziggler/Rio was booked really nicely for both men. Found it ten times better than Dean vs Kane.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That was the worst fucking "sell" of a move I've ever seen.

It honestly deserves it's own post for how awful it was. Cena AA's Ryback through a table only for Ryback to get up as if nothing happened and actually BEAT Cena to his feet? The fuck?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> yea that pissed me off when I heard about it, but I heard the details after (crowd reaction, double turn etc) he will blow up and get the recognition he deserves. Fuck del rio though, one of the biggest waste in wwe history, a fucking a rock is more interesting and could get a better reaction but they keep giving the guy reigns and more accolades which is bull. They will probably drop the belt to ziggler at mitb or maybe even a raw in the mean time.
> 
> The punk/Jericho also relieved some of my angry as well along with agreeing with Brye


Well I'm still annoyed about it, but I've still been enjoying the show. Hoping they'll really capitalize on a face Ziggler as he's been well overdue for a turn for months. Agree on Del Rio.

Would be cool to see Ziggler become the champion as a face, but I won't get my hopes up on Ziggler winning back the title so soon, or even at all. The sad thing is with WWE's history they could easily mess up Ziggler here, and I hope god that doesn't happen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

We went from Cena/Punk, to Cena/Lesnar, to Cena/Ryback. Wow. *1/2 at best.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Eh, Cena/Ryback was ok. Wasn't expecting much and I knew Cena was winning, it's whatever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea that also scares me abit as well. Dolph's ceiling is extremely high and wwe needs to capitalize on it like with dbryan the shield members

On the cena/ryback match Idk what to say


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I honest could care less because many could be in his position and do better but where does ryback goes from here, so many losses

Edit: Sorry for the double post


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

★★ for the main event. I didn't expect any swerves so I didn't set myself up for disappointments. Some parts were also laughable such as Cena diving into the roster of jobbers, Ryback no-selling the AA, them ripping the ambulance apart and the finish.

POOR RYBACK.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I didn't mind Cena's dive. Thought that was kinda cool.

I'd go about **1/2. Still miles ahead of Orton/Trips and HBK/Trips ones.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Final thoughts until I re-watch a few later in the week: (Posted most of this earlier)

Miz/Barrett/Axel - ***1/2* - Sloppy but watchable. Finish was awesome.
AJ/Kaitlyn - ***** - Best divas match I've seen in ages, worked the storyline really well throughout.
Kane/Ambrose - *** - Thought this sucked apart from Ambrose attempting Old School.
ADR/Ziggler - Won't rate this yet, was caught up in the moment throughout. Loved the double turn though, really well executed.
Punk/Jericho - ****1/2* - Will watch again, enjoyed it thoroughly despite a generic opening segment. Not sure about the ****+ ratings though at the moment.
Shield/RKNo - ****1/2* - Solid from The Shield as always, still teasing that probably Orton heel turn nicely.
Cena/Ryback - **1/2* - Just LOL, did anyone actually think this was going to be good?

Though most seemed to think this PPV would suck in the build up to it, it actually turned out pretty well. Ziggler/ADR, Punk/Jericho, Shield/RKNo and yes, the divas match were all good. Some shit in there too but hey, it's modern day WWE. Have Punk/Jericho as MOTN at the moment, but obviously will re-watch ADR/Ziggler. 

Looking forward to Raw tomorrow, Punk's back, face Ziggler, usual Shield and D-Bry goodness plus hopefully...


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Decent PPV, plenty to look forward to come RAW. 

*Dean vs Kane*/ Meh

*DB/RKO vs Shield*/ pretty solid

*Ziggler vs Rio*/ enjoyed it purely based on how well booked it was

*Triple threat for the IC title*/ Nice pace as usual with these guys and first solid match from Axel

*AJ vs Kate*/ was  for a diva match, both worked a fine match for the build the feud had

*Cena vs Ryback*/... This sure as hell didn't deserve the title 3 stages of hell. Awful and put that gimmick match to shame. Their last man standing was a lot better. Ryback sold that match better than he did this one.

*Punk vs Jericho*/ Great face win for Punk, slow in the beginning, but picked a little too far into the match. Great seeing Punk back thou. 

7/10


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE Payback

Jiz Vs Borrett Vs Axhole ~ *1/2 **

Kaitlyn Vs AJ Lee ~ *** 3/4*

Kane Vs Dean Ambrose ~ ***

Dolph Ziggler Vs Alberto Del Rio ~ *****

CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho ~ **** 1/2*

Seth Rollins/Roman Reigns Vs Daniel Bryan/Randy Orton ~ **** 1/4*

John Cena Vs Ryback ~ ** 3/4*

I can tell already that this is going to be an overrated show.

REALLY surprised that Cena-Ryback wasn't OMFG TERRIBLE and actually had some good shit going for it, now Cena can move on from the awfulness known as Ryback and onto perhaps the greatness known as Daniel Bryan or Mark Henry (LOL at the actually true point that it's the second best 3SOH match, the gimmick fucking sucks and needs to be never used again).

Speaking of Henry, rumors are swirling about that he's announcing his retirement tomorrow, which would quite honestly ruin my week.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*First take*
*Wwe Payback 2013*

Barrett vs Miz vs Axel - ** 3/4*
AJ vs Kaitlyn - *** 3/4*
Ambrose vs Kane - ** 3/4*
Ziggler vs Del Rio - ***** *(MOTN)
Punk vs Jericho - **** 1/2*
Rollins & Reigns vs Bryan &Orton - **** 1/4*
Cena vs Ryback - ** 1/2*

Overall a decent PPV with the matches I assumed would deliver did. Ziggler and Del Rio was a standout for me, the storytelling and subsequent double turn were all done perfectly. Punk and Jericho was good, but could of been alot better. The main event was crap as expected but It was good for a laugh. Now lets move onto something else now.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Payback*

Triple Threat - ****
Kaitlyn/AJ - ***
Ambrose/Kane - ***
ADR/Ziggler - ****
Punk/Jericho - ****3/4*
Tag Match - *****
Cena/Ryback - **1/2*

Punk/Jericho and the tag match saved this terrible show.


----------



## EdgeHeadBellaFan (Jul 3, 2011)

Sheamus vs. Damien Sandow - **

Curtis Axel vs. Wade Barrett vs. The Miz - **1/2

AJ vs. Kaitlyn - **3/4

Dean Ambrose vs. Kane - *

Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ***3/4

The Shield vs. RK-NO - **1/2

John Cena vs. Ryback - **


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> WWE Payback
> 
> Jiz Vs Borrett Vs Axhole ~ *1/2 **
> 
> ...


Agree with this man's ratings. I was disappointed The tag match wasn't given more time seen as what these guys have been pulling out of the bag the past few months. Punk and Jericho was good but it's no way a classic many seem to be sprouting around these parts during Payback. Ziggler was amazing that's a babyface turn only needs to get rid of AJ/Big E.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

The low ratings on the Ziggler/Rio is criminal right now. Almost shows you what finisher usage will get you(Jericho/Punk).


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Curtis Axel def. Wade Barrett & The Miz - **1/2
AJ Lee def. Kaitlyn - **1/4
Dean Ambrose def. Kane - *1/4
Alberto Del Rio def. Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2
CM Punk def. Chris Jericho - ****
The Shield def. Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - **1/2
John Cena def. Ryback - ***

the triple threat match started slow, but really picked up at the end and got the crowd into it, so that gives their match a boost.

AJ-Kaitlyn was a bit slow in the middle, but all in all, a very good divas match and one of the best I can remember. 

Ambrose-Kane was just bad. These guys styles do not mesh well. They need to stop doing this one.

The actual wrestling in ADR-Ziggler was at a **1/2 - *** level, IMO, nothing new or special that I didn't see between them in February and March when they had those matches, but the story took it up a notch and was fantastic. The double turn was executed real well and I look forward to seeing where this goes.

Punk-Jericho started slow but really turned it up a notch. It became the match that we wanted to see last year, who the best really was. Last year, it was saddled with the drinking storyline, this year, it was just straight wrestling and it was great. Really picked up in the final 10 minutes or so, with a hot crowd and great reversals.

The tag title match was in a tough position following Punk-Jericho, but it was decent. I really wish The Shield had some new opponents. I like Bryan-Rollins, but I feel like I've been watching the same thing for a long time now and I even took a break from Wrestlemania-the last few weeks.

The three stages of hell match surprisingly entertained me, mainly the tables portion of it. It wasn't great by any means, but it wasn't bad, IMO.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*My Review:*

7/10.

Solid show.

Barrett/Miz/Axel - I was pleasantly surprised with. Despite some boring talent being involved in this match, these three all put in a performance in this match, and the good back-and-forth, unpredictable nature of the triple threat match throw in with nice spots, some false finishes and a crowd that was really into it made this match good. The actual finish itself was pretty cool. ***

Kaitlyn/AJ - A decent diva bout that got some much needed time to let the women showcase more of their talents and the match had a story unlike 99% of divas matches and it was alright. That's all. Some people are overrating it just because it was the first divas match that didn't suck in a long time.

Ambrose/Kane - was a dull match-up. Nothing really special happened here and the crowd weren't really into it, when they were for practically every other match in the night, which didn't help either. *1/2 

Del Rio/Ziggler - was a great match. Great character work, emotion and storytelling was on display in such a unique match where the roles were reversed and Ziggler was playing the face and Del Rio an aggressive heel going to all lengths to become champion again. Ziggler's awesome selling genuinely made you think he was legitimately hurt at several moments in the match, and while the ending was bad and Del Rio shouldn't of won, the match was still great and told a great story. The double turn was excuted perfectly in this match and I'm looking forward to seeing Ziggler as a face, I just hope WWE don't fuck it up. ***3/4 

Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins vs Randy Orton and Daniel Bryan - a typical tag match formula with the heels primarily in control most of the match and the faces hitting nice comebacks. Can't say I cared too much for this one as with seen these 4 wrestle each other so many times now it's not even funny. The finish is nice but the match wasn't anything special. **1/2

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - good but not great. It felt like they were trying to go out their and put on a classic, but it just didn't happen. Kind of felt like a glorified TV match between the two, there's some good moments and sequences but I wasn't as into it as I thought I would be. Crowd was hot as fuck, finish was kind of underwhelming, but this match as a whole just got overshadowed by the great Ziggler/Del Rio match earlier. ***1/2

John Cena vs Ryback - ok match. Wasn't expecting much and I wasn't really disappointed with it. Cena was obviously winning so it whatever. There was some nice spots in it such as Cena's dive into the lumberjacks, Ryback's clean pin on Cena, Ryback crushing the Table with the steel steps etc, but I just found it really hard to care for the match. The 3 stages of hell stipulation is silly, this over-the-top hate in their feud comes across as so forced, and I can't buy into it. The finish was typical super Cena and I wasn't surprised with the ending. **1/2

Overall this was a pretty good show. Didn't like that Ziggler lost the World Title but I'm very interested in the direction they're going to take with him now. Some matches surpassed my expectations and overall I enjoyed the PPV. Would recommend watching it and it's definitely one of the stronger PPV's this year, better than last month's Extreme Rules easily.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Not throwing out stars yet, especially since my stream lagged the whole show, and there were large portions that I missed, so I never really got into a groove with this show.

Woke up from my nap at like 7:30, so I missed the IC triple threat. Not surprised at all that Axel won. 

REALLY enjoyed the diva match. Some good storytelling, the counter into the first Black Widow was really nice. Was surprised to see AJ kick out of the spear, but it tied in nicely. And they played up the loss after the match.

Ambrose/Kane was disappointing. Still like Ambrose and the things he does, but the match didn't do anything for me. My stream cut out at the end, but I hear Dean won by countout.

If WWE don't follow through with the double turn after tonight, then I just don't know. Ziggler did some great selling in the match, and Del Rio certainly played the heel well. Del Rio's promo after the match should have sealed the heel turn. Interesting to see where this goes, since AJ seems to still fully be heel. 

Punk/Jericho was weird for me. Again, stream lagged a ton, so I couldn't get into it. Thought the match was decent, but didn't love it. Thought it was weird that Punk hit all of his signatures, and immediately the GTS with no counter from Jericho, and he kicked out. Thought they might capitalize on Heyman almost costing Punk the match, but nothing really came of that. Side note: I'm glad Punk grew his hair back, and DEM CHOPS THOUGH.

Bryan/Orton vs Reigns/Rollins was pretty good. Bryan is, of course, still super over. Finish made sense, though I'd rather they go ahead and turn Orton if they're going to. They didn't really tease it tonight, but after that Smackdown the week before last, it seemed like the turn was imminent. 

lolthatmainevent

The Cena splash was the best part about that whole match. 

Chicago gets a well-deserved nod tonight. They were terrific, though by the time the main event arrived, they didn't get a shit. They came alive a few times in that match, but overall they just didn't care. 

They didn't surprise in the Punk match, in fact that's probably when they were at their best. 

Pretty decent show on the whole.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Payback Ratings:

The Miz vs Wade Barrett vs Curtis Axel *****
Kaitlyn vs AJ ***3/4*
Dean Ambrose vs Kane **1/2*
Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio ****1/2* for now. Need to re-watch cause I missed quite a bit.
CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ***3/4*
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton ****1/4*
John Cena vs Ryback ***1/2*

Some quick thoughts on AJ/Kaitlyn. Not the most of professional reviews, but hey, quick thoughts:



> The Divas match is by far the best I've seen since Layla/Eve NOC tbh. But this one blows Layla/Eve away by far. Most people will not want to admit it but Kaitlyn and AJ actually had a decent built feud. Wasn't anything to write home about but it fit the context of the match and the way they've booked Kaitlyn this week (with her snapping and all), it really played well in this match. I was shocked to actually see false finishes in a Divas match. This match was really good and both women worked hard and deserve all the praise that they get.


And of, course, why the fuck do I have Punk/Jericho so low?



> Punk and Jericho just felt out of place tbh. Talk about a match that just had no reason to be on this card other than WWE wanting to exploit the Chicago crowd. Don't get me wrong, it was abeautiful moment to see Punk walking through that curtain but what exactly was the point of this match? What did Jericho want with Punk anyway? It's just the classic case of modern WWE booking. I guess it's up to the fans to determine why we're here cause they don't know either!
> 
> I thought the match wasn't worked well either but then again how do you work a match with zero build? The endless finisher kickouts were just unnecessary in my book as such a thing should be left for big fight matches that actually have something on the line and are worthy of the "Holy shit, I thought that was it kind of deal" A simple heat control segment from Jericho with a hot ass babyface comeback from Punk would have better suited this match imo. I just didn't like it and I really didn't care for it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Payback Ratings:

Sheamus/Sandow: *****
Triple Threat IC: *****
Kaitlyn/AJ: ***3/4*
Ambrose/Kane: ***1/2*
Ziggler/Rio: ******
Punk/Jericho: *****1/2*
Shield/RKNO: ****1/2*
Cena/Ryback: ***1/4*

Another year, another epic Chicago PPV. Best show since the last Chicago PPV, which was the best show since the best Chicago PPV prior to that one. So much great stuff; I'm really anticipating some great things from here on out.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just saw del rio/ziggler ***1/2 for me,great character work and great storytelling. Annoyed ziggler lose but hopefully it will benefit him in the future as the a great face

Edit: may go up to ***3/4 after another watch idk


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, Mark Henry's tweets seem to be indicating that's he retiring. Sad if true.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Mark Henry retiring :bron3


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

payback 1st watch ( turned stream on and watched from punk/y2j to the end and then watched ziggler/del rio after)

punk/Jericho ****1/4-2
ziggler/del rio *** 3/4
orton/bryan vs rollins/reigns ****


Edit: cena/ryback 2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I swear to God if Mark Henry does a retirement speech on RAW tomorrow night I'd be tearing up. I really would. 

He should, which I know he is going to, put over somebody before he leaves though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Miz/Barrett/Axel - ***- Enjoyable match with some great nearfalls and a great ending. I liked it, as even though Barrett lost (again)... at least it wasn't neccessarily because he was "knocked out" and he was, in a way, pinned by two men. Good shit.

AJ/Kaitlyn - ***1/2 - Best divas match in a looooong time. Really really enjoyed the story and they fit in the action very nicely. Love that Kaitlyn's need to shove every little thing AJ has thrown at her back into her face (or at least that air-kiss at the beginning of the match) was ultimately her un-doing. I know I have this higher than most but I really, really enjoyed the match.

Kane/Ambrose - ** - Pretty meh tbh. Old school attempt by Ambrose was cool but the match itself, while not "bad", fell really flat and lacked intensity it needed in order to follow the previous match. Again, don't think it was "bad", but it was just kind of there.

ADR/Ziggler - **** - My god, this was beautiful. I must be sick. First giving the divas match massive props, but then these two go out there and put on a quality match I wasn't expecting. The double-turn was amazing and if Ziggler's face turn goes well, we could be looking back at this match one day as the Austin-Bret-lite (not as good, probably won't be as much of an impact, but more due to the personal implications for Dolph Ziggler). We'll see what happens with Del Rio and if he can sustain the heat he got at MITB, but this whole storyline from here on out shouldn't be about him. This should be about Dolph Ziggler's journey to regaining the World Title from here on out, and this time doing it legitimately (non-MITB). Maybe he loses at MITB/wins by DQ and then at Summerslam beats Del Rio. 

Off the match though, I found the Del Rio promo afterwards just kinda thrown in there. I mean, they had to of planned the double-turn if that's the case beforehand, but that Del Rio promo... just seemed like Vince heard the heat he's always wanted Del Rio to get and sent him back out there to cut a promo. The promo itself was terrible and bland. 

Punk/Jericho - ***3/4 - This was some masterful storytelling here, with Punk coming back but with some tough ring rust and clearly having trouble keeping up with Jericho. TBH had the match ended with the codebreaker in mid-air, I would've given this match ****+ probably. I mean, before the match started I was hoping for Punk to win but as it was going on I began hoping they really roll with this story and have Jericho defeat Punk due to Punk's ring rust... and they can go into how Punk didn't train for the match and that ended up being his un-doing, leading to a rematch at MITB with Punk training the next four weeks and coming back and defeating Jericho, which then leads to Brock coming out and destroying Punk, which then starts the Punk/Lesnar program. But still it was a great match, despite that Jericho looked kinda weak falling to Punk, who was playing the rusty "BITW" very well. It wasn't better than their Mania match and I don't know that I'd put it above their ER match either, but it was a great match.

Shield/RKNo - ***1/2 - Great match, sucks Bryan took the fall again, especially when he's been on a roll, but if it leads to Orton turning heel, then I'm all for it.

Cena/Ryback - **1/2- I thought the lumberjack portion of the match was good, and the tables fall alright as well with Ryback failing to put Cena through tables several times and a cool moment with Ryback pushing the table out of the way while on Cena's shoulders. I'm glad they let Ryback pin Cena, as I was certain that wasn't going down, but glad I was wrong. The ambulance fall though was... meh. The fight around the ambulance, use parts of the ambulance which was cool, and the finished worked well to finish the feud once and for all, without making Ryback look too weak. So overall, average match.

So overall, great PPV. Ziggler/Del Rio gets MOTN and Ziggler's performance in it was incredible, Punk/Jericho had some masterful storytelling and Kaitlyn/AJ was great. On paper the PPV looked terrible outside of the Punk return, but it turned out to have some very good shit go down, even outside the Punk match (as I explain above). I recommend getting this PPV. PPV of the year so far.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Yeah it looks like Henry's retiring. He's had a good long run though. I'll miss him.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Henry. 

Final thoughts:
Axel/Barrett/Miz - **3/4
AJ/Kaitlyn - ***
Ambrose/Kane - Need to watch again
Del Rio/Ziggler - ****1/4
Punk/Jericho - ***3/4
RK-No/Shield - ***1/4
Cena/Ryback - **1/4

- Fun show, overall. Outside of the main event there wasn't a match that I didn't at least mildly enjoy. And even parts of the main event were fun.

- Triple threat never really got slow and boring which is usually a fear with those three guys. Killer ending.

- AJ/Kaitlyn was actually pretty good.

- Stream was god awful during Kane/Ambrose.

- I still absolutely loved Del Rio/Ziggler for the story it told.

- I thought Punk/Jericho was pretty good but they've had 3 or 4 matches better than it. Great to see Punk back though.

- Tag title match was good. I liked the way it was set up but I would have liked to have seen Orton turn heel tonight.

- Cena/Ryback was meh. I've seen far worse but none of it made me care at all.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Anyone else catch Ziggler wish his dad Billy Gunn a Happy Father's Day on twitter? :lol


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> Dolph Ziggler ‏@HEELZiggler 11h
> #HappyFathersDay @RealBillyGunn
> 
> (thanks for giving me YOUR fashion sense & MOMs height) &#55357;&#56853;
> Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More


Father/Son love


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

^ That's hilarious. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at gamblor comments on del rio promo after the match. Most over pushed fuck ever


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So if you haven't watched the video by now, take a look at this;

http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/exclusive-videos

CM Punk Vs Brock Lesnar will main event Summerslam, I'm 90 percent sure of it.

Punk's pretty much a face now too, can't wait to see it. He's obviously better as a heel but the fact that he is going to more than likely work with all of the company's big time attraction speaks volumes of his popularity. Since the worked shot he's had main event matches against Cena/Taker/Rock/HHH & now BROCK? He's the biggest #2 option the WWE has had in quite some time if you ask me, one of the greatest ever.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> So if you haven't watched the video by now, take a look at this;
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/exclusive-videos
> 
> ...


I can see it. I'm all for it too. Punk has worked with Rock, Taker and now Lesnar (maybe) in a span of around 8 months. Impressive.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Payback ratings: 

Axel/Barrett/Miz: ***1/4

Ziggler/Del Rio: ***3/4

Jericho/Punk: ***3/4

Kane/Ambrose:.**

Shield/Bryan/Orton: ***

Cena/Ryback: **3/4


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Have only seen a few matches thus far, but ratings:

Del Rio vs. Ziggler - ***1/2
CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ***3/4
Shield vs. RKNO - **1/2

Punk's back, incredible fucking reaction. Incredible story told in the match. Not as good as the previous two PPV matches they've had, but still very good. Slightly better than their RAW match earlier this year.

PUNK VS LESNAR :mark:


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> So if you haven't watched the video by now, take a look at this;
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/exclusive-videos
> 
> ...


:mark: :mark: :mark: 

I was hoping for Punk/Lesnar for Summerslam main event and looks like the chances just skyrocketed from that video. 

Finally finished watching all the Punk World title matches for my mini review and put them in order. Should have the first batch up soon, if I don't get distracted.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

After thinking about it, how I'd end up ranking the Punk/Jericho matches:

1) WM28
2) PB 13
3) Raw 2013
4) ER 2013

All ***1/2+. The two don't have the greatest chemistry, but they're so good individually they make it work.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I mean, Punk as a face isn't as GODLY as his GOD heel run, but if it means getting Punk Vs Brock I'm all for it.

Let's face it; when it comes to the BIG time matches he's been involved in and the amount of hype that the company has put behind him since mid 2011, Punk's been BIGGER than pretty much anybody in the Cena era besides Cena. MITB & Summerslam w/ Cena, NOC w/ HHH, Mania & Extreme Rules w/Jericho, The Rock matches, the Taker streak match, and now with a potential Lesnar match are BIGGER matches than anybody else on the current full time roster have been involved in bar Cena of course.

The fact that he fucking rules in the ring and on the mic doesn't exactly hurt his case either. EASILY the best #1 or #2 guy in quite some time in terms of being a total package.

& as a side note on Del Rio-Ziggler; I thought the booking was brilliant if it had to be anybody besides Del Rio who was winning the strap, the fact that Alboreto gets so much shit handed to him makes me sick to be a wrestling fan. I mean, even though The Rock (not what I used to call him) sucks complete balls and should never come close to a wrestling ring again, I understand WHY he's in the main event. UGH. FUCK DEL RIO.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm in the mood to watch a spotfest. Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fandango said:


> I'm in the mood to watch a spotfest. Anyone have any suggestions?


Unbreakable 2005 Three Way 8*D

In all seriousness though, check out Sabu Vs 2 Cold Scorpio from Cyberslam 1996, it's not the greatest match in the world but in terms of spots it's quite OMFG.


----------



## Sids_chickenleg (Jul 19, 2011)

Fandango said:


> I'm in the mood to watch a spotfest. Anyone have any suggestions?


Doink vs Crush Wrestlemania 9 :cool2

Any Guerrero vs Malenko from 1995 ECW is good stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry needs to troll everybody and FUCK UP Cena tomorrow.

Don't retire Mark .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Scorpio/Sabu was alright. Was expecting a bit more from an ECW match, especially one with Sabu in it.



Sids_chickenleg said:


> Doink vs Crush Wrestlemania 9 :cool2
> 
> Any Guerrero vs Malenko from 1995 ECW is good stuff.


I've seen Guerrero/Malenko 2 out of 3 Falls. It was awesome.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Maybe Henry will pull a Flair.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Fandango said:


> I'm in the mood to watch a spotfest. Anyone have any suggestions?


Unbreakable 2005 is first to enter my head to. Do Fixer/Blood Generation from ROH Supercard of Honor was also rated 5*. Here's the youtube if you don't want to d/l it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I second the recommendation for Do Fixer/Blood Generation. The "funnest" spotfest that there ever was.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I have Do Fixer/Blood Generation on my computer. It's one of my favorite matches ever. I wish we could see shit like that more often.

EDIT: Dudleys vs. Hardys from Royal Rumble 2000 is fucking awesome. Best "Tables" match ever, bar none. *****1/4*


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Fandango said:


> I'm in the mood to watch a spotfest. Anyone have any suggestions?


Motor City Machine Guns vs Beer Money Inc. - any match in their best of five series 
Motor City Machine Guns vs Generation Me - Ultimate X match from Destination X 2010
Any Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn match from ECW
Any Masato Tanaka vs Mike Awesome match from ECW
John Morrison vs Evan Bourne from ECW
London and Kendrick vs Regal and Taylor vs MNM vs The Hardyz - ladder match from Armageddon 2006


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Payback​*
0) Sheamus vs Damien Sandow ~ ****


1) *WWE Intercontinental Championship - Triple Threat Match*
Wade Barrett(c) vs Curtis Axel vs Mike Mizanin ~ ***3/4*


2) *WWE Divas Championship*
Kaitlyn(c) vs AJ Lee ~ ***1/4*


3) *WWE United States Championship*
Dean Ambrose(c) vs Kane ~ **3/4*


4) *WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs Alberto Del Rio ~ ****3/4*


5) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho ~ ***1/4*


6) *WWE Tag Team Championship*
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton ~ *****


7) *WWE Championship - Three Stages of Hell Match*
John Cena(c) vs Ryback ~ **1/2*​

~ Not gonna lie, despite it being lackluster with the two premiere matches, this show did entertain me for the majority. One mind blowing aspect put out that vibe of "anything can happen" on a PPV that I haven't quite felt for a good bit. Of course, most of this show DID go the way I and I'm sure most expected it to; that one moment (World Championship...) was a welcomed surprise.

~ Opener was fun, hot, and managed to come off smooth. I had little faith in Miz vs Barrett incarnation being worth our time and luckily with the introduction of Axel, things came together in a solid manner. Loved the finish. Thank christ Miz didn't win. Got nervous there for a second even though I felt Axel was a lock, haha.

~ Divas was pretty swell. Would have thought a bit higher of it if the middle wasn't so boring. Small potatoes as it managed to revive itself with this good finishing stretch. Actual storytelling and nearfalls came into play to make it feel worth something. The lead in to the match was god awful. The match itself? Not bad. Not bad at all. A breath of fresh air among WWE TV that isn't NXT.

~ Ambrose vs Kane was fine, I suppose. Simply greatly forgettable. The plug to Undertaker by Dean was a nice touch. Decent effort. Seen worse; seen better.

~ What in the holy hell did I just witness? During the match I was both loving the storytelling and being immensely confused all at the same time. Why is Del Rio working like a heel? Why are we getting a prime babyface performance from Ziggler while HE'S the heel? One shocking upset & post-match promo later all would be revealed. A motherflippin double turn is coming. Unreal. Didn't see this coming, but you know what? I'm all for it. Heck yes. Del Rio as champ again is laughable of course. I like the guy, but it really is. HOWEVER...we can seemingly make due considering he's merely a placeholder for Dolph's babyface win down the line. idk how long. Probably shouldn't be too lengthy. Maybe SummerSlam? idk. I hate to speculate like this, only this is what has been running through my mind since all of it took place. The match itself rocked. Pure story combined with Dolph's infamous bumping traits he's known for. Good grief how many shots to the head did he take? Dangerous, a little hectic, but oh so different for this current WWE product. I'm for it. I'll stomach Del Rio as champ for a tiny bit with the payoff of Dolph as a face and regaining the gold in time. That's all I'm focused on right now.

~ Punk vs Jericho was probably the dullest match in front of the hottest crowd. I didn't care much for it. It was so boring within the first - give or take - eight minutes. Then it teased a finish and got a bit more interesting. The Heyman tease was cool. Honestly thought that could have ended it to start a potential face run for the Punker against Paul. Rest of the match had a bleh ebb and flow to it, but a twinkle of what these guys can produce on a normal, quality basis. Not a terrible match. More along the lines of terribly average for what they've given us in the past. Together or vs different opponents all the same. The pop for Punk's return though. My god. Now that was brilliant. Worth watching to see too. So glad he's back. (Y)

~ Tag championship wasn't as good as any of the matches on TV. Again. Why does this keep happening? Good match, solid & expecting finish. Everything worked out well here. Not exceptionally well; only good. Danielson taking the Blackout to lose the match was :mark: :mark: :mark:

~ Yeah, the main event was flat. I expected it to be as a Three Stages of Hell and having one of 'em being a Lumberjack match. Those suck. To no surprise, it sucked here. Only good things were Cena's dive, Cesaro being awesome beating people up, and Ryback's counter into the Shellshock. Not enough to make it past a "DUD" for that portion, tbhayley. Tables was fine if not tedious and masturbatory considering the obvious finish that could have happened thirty seconds into the fall. Logic behind the stip was done well. So that earns them points. All matters if you can really get into a match like that. I didn't think it was bad. An improvement from the lumberjack fall. Just again some more underwhelming type stuff at the end of the day. Then the Ambulance match happened. Well, these two roughed each other up in this one. _(and before I guess with that gnarly announce table spot)_ That's cool and all. If only it was enough to make fans care. There really wasn't. I like both guys, but eh. At least at Extreme Rules while Cena was terrible, Ryback managed to actually have a pretty good showing and make the match tolerable. Tonight was a forgettable vs forgettable performance by both. Ending spot was another easy to see coming moment. I did only call it once both were on top, but hey, that counts too, right? Meh. This match went exactly how you probably expected it to. All I have left to say.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> So if you haven't watched the video by now, take a look at this;
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/exclusive-videos
> 
> ...


:mark:

Henry  Seems strange that WWE would give him this build up over the past few weeks only for him to retire. But hey, he could be trolling and leading everyone to think he's retiring only for the Hall Of Pain to re-open once more? I guess we'll see. Excited for Raw tonight though, has the potential to be a really interesting show.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

Bump up the triple-threat to ***1/2
and Del Rio vs Ziggler to ****1/4 and Y2J vs. Punk to ***1/4 and it sounds about right.

Your ratings seem way too harsh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Your detailed argument has some truly valid points.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CODEH is always harsh, nothing new.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Controversy follows me everywhere.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

DEAN FUCKING AMBROSE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE JOKER OF WWE.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

fuck i love him


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's pretty awesome. His singles matches have been falling short though. Well, half at least. vs Danielson & Undertaker, they were good. Hoping he turns it up soon in that area. Kofi & Orton excuses are fine; I expected a bit better while vs Kane, but it seems those two don't have much chemistry in the one on one field.

I'm still shocked by how well the opener went.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

The storytelling in Del Rio and Ziggler is worth **** on it's own. Go read the comments thread and see how masterfully they pulled from the beginning to the end. It started with Del Rio taking a few shots at Ziggler's head and just taking a slight advantage. He was just using an injury to get an advantage. It even played in the beginning like Del Rio was just doing the new thing WWE has been doing lately of using slightly heelish tactics as a face. The crowd was chanting for Ziggler, but it was them just being smarks at this point. The crowd wasn't necessarily into the match itself, but was into cheering for Ziggler and that was about it. This can be evidenced by the fact that the crowd was chanting RVD about a few minutes in. It was Ziggler vs. Del Rio and I don't think many were expecting this match to light the world on fire. The announcers work this part beautifully as well. Of course, then the announcers mention off-hand about stopping the match.

A few minutes in and he has a confronation with Big E. It reads like the typical babyface fighting the goons of the heel. The ref ejects Big E and the crowd agrees heartily. Of course, on first viewing, what no one seems to notice is that it isn't typical at all. Big E wasn't acting like a heel and trying to help Ziggler get a cheap win. He was standing there to try and prevent his friend from being injured. Del Rio is the one who started the confrontation by shoving. Big E was acting as a face in this moment, but people didn't quite grasp it, and they weren't supposed to yet.

It is right after this where it all starts going south for Del Rio and Ziggler. Aj Lee appears to want Ziggler to stay out of the ring, or even out of the match due to her genuine concern that her boyfriend is going to get himself injured for real. Again, she isn't concerned with Ziggler winning, but his health. Ziggler goes to get back into the ring, because he isn't going to walk away. Is he being stupid at this point? Probably, but he doesn't want to give up. Then, Del Rio plants him with a vicious kick to his head. Its sickeningly loud. He then proceeds to go crazy and stomps him like crazy. Aj is yelling at the ref for letting it happen. A few moment later and Del Rio is going for a suplex and gets put into a sleeper hold by Ziggler, who is getting desperate. The crowd is finally actually getting into this match and popping for a damned sleeper hold.

Del Rio then gets back in control and ties Ziggler up in the ropes and punches him in the kidneys for the backstabber. When he hits number ten, he doesn't keep hitting his back, but instead plants a shot at his head, because he knows that's his real advantage and it is starting to get uncomfortable. A few more reversal sequences and Ziggler is still fighting back, but is becoming noticeably tired. Then, Del Rio flips him over from the top rope and Ziggler kicks out. Del Rio is now changing from a man using an advantage to a man who is desperate.

Ziggler is outside and the ref is worried. He is checking on Ziggler and Aj is nearby and is concerned too. Del Rio ignores this face and kicks Ziggler in the head again, right in front of them. He no longer seems to care anymore. He is revealing his true self. He just wants to win the title and thought the head was his easy way to a victory, but instead Ziggler will not go down. Now, more people come out to check on him and tell him to stop. Ziggler doesn't have his faculties and he is telling them no. He plans to continue, even though he can't logically win at this point. He has already lost, but that's not the point, he won't stop. For this bravery, he gets yet another kick in the head, almost into the trainer and Aj Lee. Del Rio doesn't care about anyone. Aj Lee is breaking down and here comes Ricardo to help his buddy try to win by screaming, "He's fine." AJ, Big E, the ref, and the trainer are worried about Ziggler possibly being hurt and trying keep him from tragedy, while Ricardo and Del Rio have only winning on their mind. Their humanity has been lost. To cap it all off, Del Rio kicks AJ's Divas title to bring home how little he cares about anything else but winning. He will disrespect a title that isn't the one he wants. Plus, they are worried about Ziggler getting hurt and if the match is stopped, then he can't win the title. 

Ziggler gets back in the ring and Del Rio kicks him in the head for what appears to be one final time. Ziggler, the classic babyface, defies odds and kicks out. This is where the crowd realizes what they are seeing. Del Rio starting losing his control. He is punching and whaling on his head. He isn't a wrestler anymore, but someone assaulting someone else. He slams his head into the mat. The crowd boos him now. Ziggler, is pulling the babyface move by not giving up. He has so little energy that he is trying to use Del Rio just to stand up, because he can't quit. 

At this point. Del Rio takes off his mask to reveal the villain underneath. He raises his arms to boast about not doing well in the match, not about winning the title, but to boast about how he has injured a man so bad that he can't even stand on his own. Ziggler gets the surprise Zig-Zag and the crowd goes ballistic. Yet, he can't even muster enough strength to get a pin. He can't win. He's already lost. Yet, he won't quit. Del Rio gets up and finishes him with another kick to the head. He has effectively killed Ziggler the heel and taken the mantel for himself. Ziggler was cocky, but Del Rio is vicious. Del Rio is brutal. Ziggler has heart. Del Rio does not. A double-turn has taken place. Ziggler is broken. AJ is crying. Yet, Del Rio holds his hands high as he and Ricardo try to get the crowd to accept and condone the cruel beating that has just happened by cheering for him. They aren't even just letting the crowd cheer, but acting and eventually saying that they must. 

The post-match promo is great as well. Del Rio basically acting as if he did it for them. He committed an atrocity in the name of the fans, but they don't want it. They won't accept it. It's a performance that makes you question as a fan what you will accept from your heroes. Where will you as a fan draw the line? It turns out trying to purposefully injure man who had just had a concussion is one of the lines. It was a subtle match from begging to end. Even smarks were questioning why Del Rio was attacking his head so much. It seemed stupid. Instead, it was brilliant booking and storytelling.

On second thought, this match from me gets ****1/2. It is in line for MOTY. I think low ratings are mostly due to people not wanting to give Del Rio any credit. If this were Shawn Michaels playing the part of Ziggler and Kurt Angle playing the part of Del Rio nobody would have questioned the strength of this match.

Is that a better explantion?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CM FUCKING PUNK 

dat reaction


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

All of the ratings in here are based on subjective opinions. One person could hate the match and another could love it. You can't tell somebody else how high or low they should rate a match :lol



youmakemeleery said:


> Kurt Angle playing the part of Del Rio nobody would have questioned the strength of this match.


I'm not so sure about that...


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

:lmao :lmao love your avy dark andre


----------



## yoseftigger (Mar 18, 2008)

I usually don't comment on this thread but that Del Rio/Ziggler match was one of the finest matches I've seen this year. Slightly below Punk/Cena and Punk/Taker.

MOTN and MOTYC


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> All of the ratings in here are based on subjective opinions. One person could hate the match and another could love it. You can't tell somebody else how high or low they should rate a match :lol
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure about that...



So are you saying I can't have an opinion on someone else's ratings? Or is that just an opinion?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess Payback was a worthy sequel to ER 2012 and MITB 2011 (three **** matches imo in Ziggler/ADR, Punk/Jericho and Shield/RK-NO), though with a laughably bad Main Event. I'd say, amongst the Chicago PPV community, it's around SummerSlam 1994 level, maybe?


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> I'm still shocked by how well the opener went.


*Yeah, they delivered well above our expectations. And that finish was nicely done as well, don't remember anything of that sort happening in a long time. 

Also interested to see where his post match confrontation with Triple H leads to. *


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

youmakemeleery said:


> So are you saying I can't have an opinion on someone else's ratings? Or is that just an opinion?


Unless you're suggesting that you're the standard bearer for what all ratings should be (which is a ridiculous concept anyway) then no. You can have your own/different opinion on the match, but telling others what their ratings should be is silly. I don't care to discuss this any further because it's ridiculous.

*Back on topic*...I watched Henry vs Orton NOC for the first time last night. Holy fuck that was epic, the crowd was lapping it up too. Henry's initial control segment was excellent and Orton sold the offence with the required amount of respect. Loads of really stiff collisions. It didn't suffer from the drawn out pauses/rests that some of Mark's matches do either, that was probably because Henry spent the breaks toying with Orton in what seemed like an attempt to portray dominance through mind games. I loved the idea that the match generally represented a power switch and not just through the actual result. The little tease for the RKO before the end was well done too, Orton thought he had it and Henry was like "not today bitch", just summed up the match to a tee.

It's a shame that I stopped watching WWE at the time because of the convoluted Punk/Nash/HHH mess, wish I had persisted now. Powerslam said the match was poor at the time and that the crowd groaned when the "unover" Henry won. In reality there was a mix of shock and cheers. That's Powerslam though, they have a huge agenda against Henry and always have done even since 1999. 

I might look up some Henry squash matches later when I'm less busy...


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

ADR/Ziggler was quite outstanding. Probably the best told match of either man's career. Not necessarily the "best" match, but certainly the most meaningful. In a sense that this match really felt important. It felt like a truly monumental moment. Not on the grand scheme of wrestling history, but monumental in current WWE for these two wrestlers. Something that both men usually struggle to capture. Most ADR (&/or) Ziggler matches are just 'there'. This felt special.

The double-turn worked really well and it's probably the first time since his arrival that ADR has really 'fit' a character. If he can keep this momentum, he might finally click with the audience. I just hope they've got something planned for Ziggler. He's finally got some real traction after last night. I could definitely get behind a face run, based off the fact that Ziggler's heel work has been pretty bland for the longest of times, and his style is more conducive to a sympathetic reaction anyway.

AJ/Kaitlyn - ***
ADR/Ziggler - ****
Shield/RK-NO - ***1/2
Punk/Jericho - ***3/4

Very solid PPV. I could probably watch the whole thing again today without fast-forwarding (until the main-event). 

Great to have Punk back as well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gonna rewatch Punk/Jericho and the tag match today. I can settle with ziggler/del rio being around the ***3/4 range, great character and storytelling work but kinda bummed del rio won and is consistently getting accolades when a piece of paper is more interesting

It was the first watch and I probably was caught up in the return, but I thought the punk match was awesome and better than wm and ex. Crowd really helped 

Looking forward to Raw for the first time in a very long time


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

At first I thought Payback was going to be a classic PPV. I was actually contemplating buying it on DVD. But, imo, it's nowhere near Extreme Rules 2012 quality. 

I wonder if WWE would ever be able to churn out another PPV like it? Extreme Rules 2012 that is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havnt watched the PPV yet, probably won't for a bit yet, but alot of people were saying on another forum about Punk's condition, and saying he looked raggy, what did you guys think.

Understandable if true considering he's been out for a while.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I wonder if WWE would ever be able to churn out another PPV like it? Extreme Rules 2012 that is.


WrestleMania 30 will be as good if not better, if it delievers.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

zep81 said:


> Havnt watched the PPV yet, probably won't for a bit yet, but alot of people were saying on another forum about Punk's condition, and saying he looked raggy, what did you guys think.
> 
> Understandable if true considering he's been out for a while.


He looked a bit out of breath at times (maybe it was apart of the Storyline) but the reactions he had to Paul Heyman were interesting. It wasn't a classic but it was a fine match made better by the crowd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Havnt watched the PPV yet, probably won't for a bit yet, but alot of people were saying on another forum about Punk's condition, and saying he looked raggy, what did you guys think.
> 
> Understandable if true considering he's been out for a while.


If you ask me, that was easily the worst match of the night, on par with Kane/Ambrose. A true let down and an extremely dull disappointment, nowhere near the quality of their WM match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> If you ask me, that was easily the worst match of the night, on par with Kane/Ambrose. A true let down and an extremely dull disappointment, nowhere near the quality of their WM match.




Definitely wasn't as bad as Kane/Ambrose or Cena/Ryback. Now take a look at ryback. That was being winded. But I do agree with you that punk/Jericho was a disappointment. With those two talents they should easily be putting on 4 star matches.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

From what I really paid attention to.

*PAYBACK*

Triple threat IC title match 

Axel vs. Barrett vs. Miz - *** Solid match that didn't really stall, plenty of counters.. loved the finish.

Kaitlyn vs. AJ; Divas title - **** on a curved scale for divas.. best divas match I've seen in a few years.. 

Ambrose vs. Kane; U.S. title - ** piss poor match, some decent moments just didn't click.

Del rio vs. Ziggler ; WHC - ***3/4 would bump it higher if I can watch it and not cringe and think WWE put Ziggler in danger.. maybe Ziggler is that good but I'm really sensitive with concussions.. Great story if Ziggler is okay.

Punk vs. Jericho - ***1/4 Never really got out of second gear to me, Punk had some ring rust.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm still of the opinion that the reason why Punk/Jericho "disappointed" was because they just went about working the match all wrong. I saw no need for the umpteen finisher kickouts in a match where ABSOLUTELY NOTHING is up for grabs. To me that sort of thing only works in big feel matches where you feel as if something is really on the line. Which is why is worked in AJ/Kaitlyn. To me, AJ/Kaitlyn was better than Punk/Jericho because it was the better worked match. 

I found that Punk and Jericho told no story. Then again, what story was there to tell? Which is exactly why they shouldn't have been trying to tell a story such as the one they tried to last night as if the match actually meant a damn. Everything they did in that match just felt so out of place. I'm gonna throw the comparison, that I usually get shot down on, out there. This match felt like one of those Richards/Edwards or O Reilly/Richards or any of those combinations where they do the big flashy crap to the match a pseudo-big match feel.

Imo, all Jericho and Punk needed to do was to work a simple structured match where there was a clear heat control segment from Jericho and a hot ass babyface comeback from the hometown hero. The match flat out sucked imo.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

It was the "who is the best" story but it had no teeth. Punk was gone and there was no real heat like before.. I really do think the match was hurt by Punk's ring shape..


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Reading conflicting reports about Punk/Jericho. Guess I'll have to check it out. Also hearing Ziggler/ADR exceeded all expectations?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@TLLK yea you'll heard anything from ** to ****1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Jericho & Ziggler/Del Rio are both getting second watches from me today amongst Henry's 2012-2013 TV run (haven't watched any PPV matches yet, saving them for last). The more I think about it, the more I like the move of Dolph face which we've all been clamoring for, and it was a precision move by the WWE to wait until they got a hot crowd like Chicago that would react to the turns and really REACT to Ziggler's fantastic babyface performance.

In retrospect I think I might have gotten caught up in the Punk-Jericho hype; in their defense, they had absolutely NOTHING to build the match on and for Punk's return match, it didn't really interest me in the slightest other than seeing him do his usual schtick, which I'm more than enthusiastic that I saw.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea re watching the big three of last night (punk/Jericho,ziggler/del rio,tag match)


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Reading conflicting reports about Punk/Jericho. Guess I'll have to check it out. Also hearing Ziggler/ADR exceeded all expectations?


The storytelling is what makes ADR/Ziggler amazing. Ziggler really sold everything very well.

Punk and Jericho was good, its by no means a classic as many would have you believe. The crowd really made it special. Plus Punk's sideburns were something to behold.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Dolph/Del Rio was so phenomenal. Clear-cut WWE MOTY for me so far.

Punk/Jericho was extremely bland imo. Below average stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I knew you'd love that match, expecting YEAH to watch it and adore it as well.

My Del Rio HATE has probably blinded me, the fact that the WWE has handed him so much really pisses me off but nonetheless I remember his onslaught to the head and how vicious it was, can't wait to check out what's up soon enough.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Yeah, just watch Punk's match for his sideburns.. I thought he was claw Y2J up wolverine style haha.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, Del Rio vs Ziggler had some amazing storytelling. We need more of these awesome double-turns. Has there even been one since Austin/Bret up until last night?

Also rewatched Kane/Ambrose just to look out for the guy with that Chris Benoit t-shirt. Completely stole my focus as soon as I discovered it. :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I noticed it because my stream froze RIGHT as the camera was on the guy up close.

I'm expecting you to scour the internets in search of that T-shirt now C2D :lol.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah, but Del Rio getting booed for winning the title (while still kinda face) is awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> Dolph/Del Rio was so phenomenal. Clear-cut WWE MOTY for me so far.


Seriously? Damn, I need to watch this ASAP. I respect your opinion, so it's gotta be good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It ENRAGES me how the guy is going to end up with like, 10 world title reigns.

They're going to plant to seeds for Brock-Punk tonight, bank on it. Punk being in the biggest feud in the company despite not being champion = :mark:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk/BROCK should actually be rather fucking awesome.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched del rio/ziggler ****1/2 :mark: right there with punk/taker punk/cena as MOTY and my personal pick

-havent been that invested in a match in a while
- Shockingly Del Rio was excellent in this match
- Dolph excellent performance and remind me of hbk so much in this match
- havent seen storytelling this good in a while

On to punk/Jericho


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I noticed it because my stream froze RIGHT as the camera was on the guy up close.
> 
> I'm expecting you to scour the internets in search of that T-shirt now C2D :lol.


I've actually known about its existence for quite a while. Looked for it a few months ago but I thought it's too expensive. Might actually buy it after all. Will definitely not wear it in a hot summer day, though. That said, I don't know if they even have any clue who Benoit is around here since wrestling is not popular at all.



Silverthorn said:


> Yeah, but Del Rio getting booed for winning the title (while still kinda face) is awesome.


Absolutely loved how he just took it all in and continued to work on Ziggler's head. Then the celebration and the post-match promo confirmed his heel turn. It's good because Ziggler should have turned face a while back. He works like a face and I don't care for any of his narcissistic characteristics.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some interesting points from another forum, this one about Ryback:



> The rest of the show was really solid too, not much else to add which hasn't been said. Respect to Ryback's homage to Goldberg by smashing his hand through the window though.


And some people's thoughts on Punk's comeback:



> Punk looked hilarious. I've never bought into the notion that he's too small or skinny or whatever, but last night he was. He looked like some bloke off the street and his muttonchops were dog shit. He put no effort in because it was a home crowd and he could have turned up in the shape of the Honky Tonk man and got away with it. I know it was a home crowd, but just coming back as a face doesn't work either. There wasn't even a turn, he was just acting face-y.





> He's taking the piss coming back looking like that though. Comedy sideburns and skinnier than ever. If anyone further down the food chain was given two months off to rest and came back looking worse than when they left, they would be sent home or jobbing to R-Truth on Main Event.





> Punk went way and above the call of duty I felt. I'm surprised I'm defending him so much, but the bloke is fucked. He's been brought back 2 months early because WWE needs him on Raw. His knees and back are completely shot at the minute. Its his first match back since WrestleMania, he's working hurt and they went over the time allocated and he worked super hard in front of a crowd who would have still been happy if he'd have turned in a t-shirt, did the finger poke of doom and left. If they had any issues regarding his cardio (which I'm sure they dont since the match and the reaction came off better than anything on the whole show), maybe they should think twice about dragging their stars back when they are supposed to be off for another 2 months.





> They definitely shouldn't have brought him back yet. He looked like shit and like he couldn't be arsed. It was the location that doomed them. If he wasn't there, it'd have been "We want Punk" chants all night. Should've just had him do a speech, could've done a breakup storyline with Heyman, then gone back to bed until a few weeks before SummerSlam.


Some interesting points made.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> Seriously? Damn, I need to watch this ASAP. I respect your opinion, so it's gotta be good.


Yeah, above Punk/Taker right now. I'm not a big fan of Cena/Punk so that's there.

It's a completely different kind of match than we're used to seeing. Dolph's character work in the match is excellent, going from his confident #heel persona to determined, vicious heroism. I mean, sure the majority of the match is just Del Rio destroying Dolph's head, but the way each one plays into Del Rio's frustration and the crowd getting riled up after every move Del Rio makes is a sight to behold. It clocks in at around 14 minutes, but man, that match was right up my alley.

*****1/4*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I need to re-watch that Ziggler/Del Rio match. I'll wait until it gets uploaded to YT or Dailymotion.

Holy shit, I just realized that AJ/Kaitlyn got damn near 10 minutes. So that is what the Divas are capable of if they're given time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I need to re-watch that Ziggler/Del Rio match. I'll wait until it gets uploaded to YT or Dailymotion.


It's already on DM.

www.dailymotion.com/video/x10yp4r_wwe-payback-2013-part-2_sport#.Ub9AA7U2iKI


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I let the environment and punk's return get to me last night. Re watched it right now and it gets a***3/4 for me about equal to their mania and better than er.

ziggler/del rio ****1/2
Punk/Jericho ***3/4

Gonna take a break, may watch the tag match again before raw


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Fucking AWESOME time last night at the show. Not a DUD on the card imo. WWE and the fans deliver again in Chicago. When CM Punk entered the Allstate Arena the building erupted. I'm talking a white hot reaction as everyone just showered him with cheers. I damn near lost my voice! I have seen all three of their PPV matches live and this was the most fun I have had watching Punk & Jericho wrestle.

Kudos to AJ and Kaitlyn for having one of the best divas matches in quite some time. They added great callbacks to the feud which I loved the effort to tell a story. Kaitlyn's still a horrible actress and we let her know that but she has improved in the ring. AJ is just so cute. She had a couple of cool spots I really dug. 

However, the clear-cut standout performances of the night goes to Ziggler and Del Rio. Ziggler's bumping and especially his selling made for in my opinion the best individual performance of 2013 thus far. That was classic babyface in peril material. Del Rio's turn you could see started out subtle with his questioning the audience's jeers of his attack to the overt with his vicious kicks to Ziggler's once concussed skull. Brilliantly booked and performed match here. This is the type of storytelling I look for and revel as a wrestling fan. It is so fitting that before the match started we saw how Ziggler took advantage of an injured Del Rio to capture the World Title, and Del Rio in return did the same taking advantage of a weakness - PAYBACK. We all ate it up. 

I liked all of the finishes, some cool title changes, announcements for returns (Henry :mark R-V-D:mark), and a masterfully executed double-turn (again in Chicago). So yeah, better than expected results. Punk and Ziggler might have stole a little bit of Bryan's babyface thunder here although he still got a strong reaction in his entrance and hot tag. Not as hot as last year but a very enjoyable tag team match. I enjoyed seeing the Shield live.



Spoiler: PICS


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Also found an interesting post about Punk/Lesnar too:



> The consensus seems to be that he's been rushed back against his best wishes.
> 
> I've read in a lot of places that he's been betrayed by Lesnar refusing point blank to do more dates. They thought after they gave him 2 more years, on improved terms, he would do a least a TV show a month. Smartly, he's told them to get fucked.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Thoughts on a few matches that I saw from WWE Payback

AJ vs. Kaitlyn - ***
This was the first good divas match in such a long time. The storytelling in this match was very good with Kaitlyn's anger getting the better of her and AJ taking advantage of it. The near falls were convincingly built up very well especially the near fall where Kaitlyn was too angry to go for the pin. 

Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - ****1/4
This was the match of the night and a match of the year candidate. The double turn was pulled off really well. The storytelling was great in this match. Dolph's selling of his concussion was really well done. Del Rio's offense towards Dolph's head looked great here. Those two elements made this match.

CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2
Out of their their three PPV matches, this is the weakest one. There was little storytelling in this match. This seems to be the most spotty out of the three PPV matches. Still, This match was still fun with those two executing cool looking counters and near falls. The finishing sequence was very fun.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All the leverage is in Brock's court, another case of them royally fucking themselves when it comes to these part time deals.

If they're doing Brock/Punk, I'm kind of curious as to where exactly they're heading with this whole McMahon-HHH storyline. I know for a fact that it's not going to lead to a mega HHH-AXEL program as that's not in HHH's nature. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Watching some Henry-Punk and GOOD GOD they rule as a tandem together. Henry has THREE TVMOTY's under his belt as far as I'm concerned against Hardy in 2008, Bryan in 2011, & Punk in 2012. Fantastic TV matches = That's what he does.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

After re-watching Ziggler vs Del Rio from last night (thanks to the link C2D posted of the full match), I'll definitely retract my statements on this match being dull as this is pretty much WWE MOTY so far with the exception of Punk/Taker at WrestleMania 29. I'll give it a ★★★★1/4 rating. Del Rio wrestling as a heel with Ziggler's sympathetic babyface comebacks were wonderful. Del Rio doing everything he can to put Ziggler out and capture the World Heavyweight title, even going to great lengths to re-injure Ziggler with vicious kicks to the head was tremendous story-telling. I loved Ziggler's comebacks as it felt more comfortable for him in that role. Not to mention his babyface comebacks being well-placed and the fans cheering him on everytime he got the upperhand in the match. The double-turn was awesome. Great stuff there. Kudos to Del Rio and Ziggler again for that match. 

I feel like such an idiot giving this match a ★★ last night. What the fuck was I thinking? :lol Amazing what a re-watch can do when your stream freezes every five seconds screwing up the enjoyment of the match.

I feel like watching some more WRASSLIN' after re-watching that match. I'm gonna re-watch Punk/Jericho along with Bryan/Rollins from RAW, do a quick Rhyno match review, and get ready for Daniel Bryan to be the highlight of yet another RAW tonight.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I've really warmed up to Ziggler after that performance.

"Let's go Ziggler! Ziggler sucks!"

They'll probably feed him to Cena.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Thoughts on the matches I did see last night

Triple Threat - ***1/2
Diva Match - ***
Ziggler/ADR - ****3/4
Punk/Jericho - ***3/4
Shield/RKNO - ****
Ryback/Cena - *** (Entertaining to me, at the least)

Also, this PPV blew me out of the water, PPV of the yea thus far and it can only get better with MITB and Summerslam coming up!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Looks like I need to check out Ziggler/Del Rio then. The two of them bore me to death but given some of the things I've read in here, it seems worth a watch. I'll wait until I can download it. I can't watch full length matches on YT/DM for some reason. It just bothers me. Outside of that I'll wait until my friend buys the DVD so I can watch some of the other things if they take my fancy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Do y'all think good of SNME from March '06?

Because I rewatched it on DVD (WM 22 DVD extra), and FUCKING LOVED IT.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Looks like I need to check out Ziggler/Del Rio then. The two of them bore me to death but given some of the things I've read in here, it seems worth a watch. I'll wait until I can download it. I can't watch full length matches on YT/DM for some reason. It just bothers me. Outside of that I'll wait until my friend buys the DVD so I can watch some of the other things if they take my fancy.


I'd say just check out the whole PPV, as there wasn't really a truly awful match on the card (imo). I know you're a storytelling-loving person, and that was the strongest attribute in a lot of the matches (Ziggler/Del Rio, Punk/Jericho and even Kaitlyn/AJ). You'd probably love all three of them. 

Ziggler's performance in that Del Rio match was amazing, and while I can't say I care for Del Rio's THAT much, he did considerably better than he normally does (which isn't saying much, but it's still worth a mention). Definitely one of the best matches of the year and tbh, it's on the high-end of **** and I may end up bumping it up on next watch. Truly was an unexpected awesome match. 

Speaking of top matches of the year, right now it's:

(****1/2)
1) Taker/Punk WM29
(****1/4)
2) Shield vs. Hell No and Kofi Raw 5/20/13
(****)
3) Shield vs. Brothers of Hell No Raw 4/22/13
4) Ziggler vs. Del Rio Payback
5) Punk/Cena Raw 2/25/13
(***3/4)
6) Rollins and Reigns vs. Kane and Bryan Raw 5/27/13
7) Shield vs. Jericho, Ryback, and Sheamus Raw 2/18/13
8) Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins Raw 6/10/13
9) Barrett vs. Sheamus Main Event 5/29/13
10) Punk vs. Jericho Payback


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just got done re-watching Punk/Jericho from Payback. I had it at a ★★★★1/2 but it dropped to a ★★★★. First half of the match was pretty dull but it really got going in the second half. It's understandable that some didn't enjoy this as much but I actually dug this. Pretty good back and fourth and the match got really good towards the end. The match was a little sloppy at times but I enjoyed this match for the most part. 

While this is nowhere near their WrestleMania 28 and Extreme Rules match, I still thought this was great for what it was.

Now have to view the Cena/Ryback main event but judging from the reviews of this match, I'm not expecting much. After I get done with that, IT'S RHYNO TIME (we need a Rhyno smiley ASAP)!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> Do y'all think good of SNME from March '06?
> 
> Because I rewatched it on DVD (WM 22 DVD extra), and FUCKING LOVED IT.


Two awesome matches in Shane/HBK and Orton/Mysterio/Angle vs HHH/Cena. And then that great JBL/Austin segment. Really fun show.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just watched Payback and it was good but people are overrating matches. 

Kane/Ambrose - **
Triple Threat - **3/4
AJ/Kaitlyn - ***
Jericho/Punk- ***1/2
Ziggler/Del Rio - ***1/2
Rkno/Shield - ***1/4
Cena/Ryback - *1/2

I also disapprove of the Ziggler/Del Rio story. They could change my mind but right now I hate it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Got around to watching Cena/Ryback. Eh, it was alright. Certainly not as bad as people are making it out to be but definitely not good either. The Tables match was good and the Ambulance match was okay I guess. The Lumberjack match was terrible though. The spot where Cena dives onto the lummerjacks only for the lummerjacks to get back up and start fighting again was hilarious. Overall, I'd give it a ★★.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

All I'm saying is that if Henry retires tonight.... Man .

This better be a work.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

After a rewatch, I now have Ziggler/Rio and Punk/Jericho both at *****1/4*. Youmakemeleery gave us one of the best reviews this thread has seen with regards to Ziggler/Rio, so I guess I'll take the time to explain why I loved Punk/Jericho from last night so much.

This is a *very* long read, but I believe that it fully explains what the story of the match is as well as why myself and many others love this match so much.



Spoiler: Punk/Jericho III



Contrary to popular belief, I do think that there was an obvious story being told in this match, and a well-executed one at that. The story here is very similar to that of Cena/Jericho from SvS 08 with Punk playing the role that Cena played. After an extended leave due to crushing defeat after crushing defeat, CM Punk is back in his hometown. However, unlike his last two visits where he was oozing with confidence, this time he has to fight the battle of whether or not he is ready to come back to the ring against one of his arch rivals. The embarrassment of losing a return match in your own hometown would be too much for an already downed and deteriorated wrestler to handle. Cena's struggle in his match against Jericho was largely due to his *physical* condition and his return home from a serious surgery, but Punk's was due to his *mental* condition and whether he still truly believes that he is the best in the world. In both matches, we have one of the most manipulative wrestlers of all-time ready to pounce at his opponents' inadequacies in Jericho, who is a man that has never had an issue with lack of confidence.

After a surreal ovation from the Chicago crowd that wasn't sure if he would even show up, Punk (with an unkempt look akin to that either of an old-school Chicago hero or that of a miserable man) comes out looking happier than he did in a long time especially after his mental breakdown. However, as soon as the bell rings, Punk's smile directed to the Chicagoans turns into a serious expression, thus telling us that it's game time. Jericho understands the emotional implications of this match, so he starts the match by pushing Punk's buttons by pushing Punk. Punk wants to turn this beginning into a "feeling out" process as a way to get rid of ring rust. As JBL mentions, Punk's choice to slow down the pace favors him in his return. As he builds up more confidence from chain wrestling with Jericho, he opens up himself to Jericho's counter-attacks and reversals, which is an obvious trait of a man that has been so far away from the ring for an extended period.

In order for Jericho to have a chance at picking up a victory, he has to be as advantageous as he ever was, which is why it makes sense for him to be as heelish as possible. The trade off of this is that Jericho's heelish and opportunistic nature comes with brash arrogance that makes him prone to taking too much time on an opponent, as seen by the way that his springboard dropkick gets countered because he spent too much time taunting the raucous crowd. Another instance of Jericho's trade off manifesting itself is when Punk gives him a spinning neckbreaker after Jericho was too busy shouting "COME ON BABY!" during his mini-control segment.

Punk's first big moment where his lack of confidence showed was when he was going for his springboard lariat. We see Punk gasping for air and second-guessing himself as he jumps up the ropes. This time spent second-guessing himself gives Jericho a chance to take control, once again showing how Punk is still suffering from a lack of confidence. This specific spot reminded me very much of how Cena was unsure of whether or not he could hit his diving leg drop on Jericho in his SvS match which was probably my favorite spot in that match.

Much of what made this match so great was how CM Punk communicated with his hometown crowd whenever he needed that extra boost of confidence to get him through a tribulation. For instance, look at Punk throwing up the horns while in the Walls, signaling to the crowd that he is still alive, but he needs their support to get out of the predicament. This "Lawler-like" motion completely differs from the Punk that we last saw who would signal to the crowd that he is still alive, but also signaling that he wants nothing to do with the fans. Even more importantly, this is a far cry to the "old" CM Punk who would turn to his manager first when he was unsure of himself. This "new" CM Punk now turns to his fans first before making up his mind, which is an excellent bit of foreshadowing that will certainly be in play during the future Heyman/Punk feud.

What is probably agreed on as the best piece of storytelling and the climax of this match is the moment where Punk has Jericho up for the GTS with Heyman on the apron. As Punk sees Heyman standing on the apron, he has a look of shock and confusion that distracts him long enough for Jericho to hit the first Codebreaker. Jericho, frustrated as he ever was, starts throwing a flurry of fists and forearms. As Punk is getting attacked left and right and selling the damage, the crowd vociferously chants his name as he charges up for his big babyface comeback that the audience was waiting for. Slowly but surely Punk's confidence gets higher and higher until he sets up another GTS attempt. However, due to his ring rust, he does not connect fully with his finisher and Jericho kicks out. Punk, now unsure as to what to do from here, looks to the crowd for an answer. Note the fact that Heyman tells Punk that he is not sure what to do at that point. Punk's beautifully done comeback continues thanks to the assistance of the crowd until he gets hit by an awesome Codebreaker from a springboard attempt for a very well-done nearfall. Amazing climax here.

To end this story, we get a really good concluding sequence that begins when Punk starts throwing fists and jabs at Jericho. The assured Punk now goes for a move outside of his normal repertoire (hurricanrana), which gives Jericho his final chance at fending off Punk. While Punk is locked in the Walls once again, he is in the brink of giving up, but his finger-wag that is usually considered a motion of submission turns into a balled fist that tells the crowd that he is still alive. The resourceful Punk hits Jericho with everything he can to get out of the Walls, and now we are certain that Punk has fully regained his lost confidence. Punk summons his inner Kobashi by hitting the GTS twice for the finish to the delight of the crowd.

This match was also not devoid of some great spots as well as storytelling. We got out fair share of call-back spots (Tornado DDT attempt from their earlier match this year) and unique reversals (Walls of Jericho into a standing Anaconda Vice). On top of that, due to the unpredictable feel that this match had from its build-up, we got to see tons of close near-falls that could have ended the match at any moment. More importantly, the crowd bought into every single near-fall, which is often an issue with a WWE-style finisher fest. Let's also not forget about the trash talking that was not only comical ("Vintage Punk!"), but also added heat to the match ("Stay down Punk", Heyman's antics).

Like any great story, the setting has just as much significance as any other piece. Many have said that this match would not have been as good if it took place anywhere else besides Chicago. There is truth to that statement, but it should not take anything away from the match. Not only did the big match atmosphere and hot crowd add to the excitement (I personally gave it an extra 1/4* solely for this reason), but Punk's face turn and gradual shift of his dependence going from Heyman to his fans would not have worked as well anywhere else.

To sum this all up, the story being told in this match is that CM Punk is trying to prove to himself that he still has it in him to be considered the best in the world after his various losses and big meltdown. However, in order to get himself out of this rump, he turns to the same people that he once admonished for assistance instead of the manager that put him in this match. Jericho definitely deserves credit here for giving us a throwback heel performance of his, but the star of this match was Punk and his incredible babyface showing. We are still not exactly sure as to what all of this will lead to, but we are sure of one thing: CM Punk is back.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> All I'm saying is that if Henry retires tonight.... Man .
> 
> This better be a work.


It's all your fault for starting a project as if his career has come to an end.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Upon a rewatch I got Ziggler/del rio at ****1/4

Didn't love the story at the time but Del Rio is really safe worker and Ziggler sell job was near flawless.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Just watched last night's Payback.

* Intercontinental Champion Barrett vs. Miz vs. Axel. Despite three boring talents, I was pleasantly pleased with this match. Surprised to see this Triple Threat kick so much ass. Just loved the finish with Axel pinning Barrett while Miz had him in the Figure Four, that was just genius. An overall fun and hot opener to the show. Completely forgot Fandango was originally supposed to be in this match, lol. Saw a perfect tribute to Mr. Perfect, which saw Axel winning the title on Father's Day and looking up while holding the title. ★★1/2

* Divas Champion Kaitlyn vs. AJ. One of the best divas matches I've seen in years! Match got much needed time to help showcase their talents. Actual storytelling and actual nearfalls came into play to make it feel worth something, and it did. So glad I didn't use this time as a bathroom break. Shocked to see AJ kick out of the spear but it tired in nicely, especially with the counter of the Black Widow. Waited long enough to see AJ as Divas Champion, she can wrestle and has more character dept than any other diva on the current roster. ★★★

* United States Champion Ambrose vs. Kane. To me, this match was just "meh" and "whatever." Not sure if it's the lack of chemistry but these two just don't click against each other in singles matches. "Forgettable" would be the name of the game for this one. Seen worse, seen better. Props to the guy wearing the "I'm a Chris Benoit guy" t-shirt, haha. ★

* World Champion Ziggler vs. Del Rio. This takes the cake for match of the night, there's no doubt about it. Witnessed amazing storytelling, emotion, character work, etc. on full display. Felt the uniqueness of the match with the roles being reversed. Del Rio playing the aggressive heel going to all lengths to become World Champion again. Ziggler going from his confident & cocky #HEEL persona, to his resilient & sympathetic #FACE performance. Don't think there's been a double turn since Austin vs. Hart and this one was executed in beautiful way. Looking forward to seeing how Ziggler goes as a face, and I'll just continue to care less about whatever Del Rio does. Wouldn't go as far as saying it was the best match of either's career, but it was definitely the most meaningful. ★★★★1/4

* Punk vs. Jericho. Highly anticipated this match the most on the card and it disappoint, at least not for me. My goodness, the Chicago crowd erupted when "The Best in the World" made his triumphed return. Been hearing a lot of hate for this match but I really enjoyed it. Although it's not the best of the Punk vs. Jericho series, it's still a terrific match with a flawless double GTS finish. ★★★★

* Tag Team Champions Reigns & Rollins vs. Orton & Bryan. You heard it, Shield vs. Team RKO-NO. Nothing close to topping any of their TV matches, but it was in no way a bad PPV match. Wasn't great or good, but I'd say "decent" was the keyword here. A decent tag team match with a solid & expected finish. Once again disappointed with the lack of an Orton heel turn... ★★★

* WWE Champion Cena vs. Ryback. Three Stages of Hell. Won't lie, I was a fan of their Last Man Standing going back to Extreme Rules, so I was sorta excited for this. Wasn't expecting anything amazing or incredible, or even great, but I was more or less hoping for a solid bout. Unfortunately, it ended up being one of the worst WWE Championship matches I've ever had the misfortune of watching. Lumberjack Match? Sucked. Tables Match? Sucked. Ambulance Match? Sucked. ★1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I knew you'd love that match, expecting YEAH to watch it and adore it as well.


The GIF of Del Rios kicking AJ's belt is honestly the reason I want to see that match sooner than planned.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

IC - **3/4
Divas - ***
US - *1/2
WHC - ****
Punk/Jericho - ***1/2
Tag Titles - ***
Cena/Ryback - NOPE


fun show, nothing was really bad at all that I saw and it was a good way to kill time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

honestly fuck all these fake ziggler bandwagoners in the wwe section "he's my favorite I always loved him show-off" shut up, where were you literally 24 hours ago, yea on bryan bandwagon

rant over

looking for to raw tonite, hope at least some questions are answered. Punk's back which should be good and the ziggler/adr aftermath. Henry may retire


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WHEN DOES RAW START LIVE IN YOUR GUYS' COUNTRY I NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH HENRY. 

Today will suck.


----------



## Callisto (Aug 9, 2009)

I already typed up my thoughts on Payback in the discussion thread. The World Heavyweight Championship match was definitely the best match of the night, and in my opinion, one of the best WWE matches of the year thus far. Both Del Rio and Ziggler delivered sensational performances; Ziggler's excessive selling and Del Rio's consistently vicious attacks enabled for great storytelling. The women's match was another pay-per-view highlight. It was almost yesterday that Kaitlyn participated with Maxine in one of the worst wrestling matches of all time. Man, she has come a *LONG* way and evolved into a decent, generally crisp worker. I haven't been this invested in a diva rivalry since LayCool's heated feud with Mickie James. I cannot wait to see how things unfold with Kaitlyn's character.

Jericho/Punk and the tag team match were huge disappointments. Although I thoroughly enjoyed how active the crowd was in the former, it was sloppy and it took too long for the flow to gain traction. It was by far their worst pay-per-view encounter to date. The tag match was rushed and ended up feeling like a throwaway, but the men made use of the allotted time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> WHEN DOES RAW START LIVE IN YOUR GUYS' COUNTRY I NEED TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH HENRY.
> 
> Today will suck.


.

SURELY IT'LL BE A WORK AND HE'LL GO BACK TO SPLITTIN' WIGS, RIGHT?

RIGHT?!?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I wonder if he does in fact retire and go to the ring and break completely kayfabe saying " I always loved the fans and all the superstars in the back" type thing


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Curtis Axel vs. The Miz vs. Wade Barrett - ***3/4*

Fun opening match. I liked how all three guys were involved in most of the action, aside from the beginning where Axel was standing outside of the ring and watching the other two fight it out. The finish was nice, with Axel pinning Barrett while in the figure four submission. I know I'm alone on this but I really don't mind Curtis Axel at all. Heyman does the talking for him and he has been pretty solid in the ring. It particularly brought a smile to my face to see him sell the way his father did. Anyone else notice? He was leaning against the ropes, and did a flip after Miz kicked his leg. Mr. Perfect used to do that all the time. Decent match for the time it was given. The crowd helped it as well.

AJ Lee vs. Kaitlyn - *****

Obviously the best Divas match in a really long time. Both of them had strong performances and even brought some intensity to the match. It not only was good, but actually told a story. I hope they can keep it up and improve the division...

Dean Ambrose vs. Kane - ****

The only thing I liked about this match was that DDT on the outside by Ambrose to win the match. I had a feeling the match would be mediocre, since it literally happened on the go-home show and it sucked. The pacing was just too sluggish. At least it wasn't that long.

Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio - ****1/2*

I think this match is slightly overrated, and it might be because of the apparent "double turn". I don't know why exactly, but to me thye match was too one-sided. It was just Ziggler looking weak again. There's a problem when you're booked to look like you don't even belong in the same ring as Alberto Del Rio. I did like the way those shots to the head came off... they looked stiff. I was surprised to see that, especially considering Ziggler just came off of a concussion. Nice execution, great selling, but not the best match of the year... or in my opinion, best match of the night. It didn't get that much time either.

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - ******

Another match where I seem to disagree with a lot of people. I actually like every match Punk and Jericho have had, even though I felt the pacing and lack of crowd reaction hurt their Wrestlemania match a bit. I for one loved watching the counters between these two. It was by no means a top 5 or top 10 match for Punk's career or anything, but he just worked a solid match here. If anything, the match could've used a little more storytelling. More showboating or something to emphasize the best in the world thing. 

Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Randy Orton & Daniel Bryan - ***1/2*

Yep, wasn't digging this match. It wasn't even as good as the TV matches. I guess they shouldn't have given away these matchups so many times on free TV. This was a basic WWE tag team match. One guy gets worked on and makes the hot tag. The guy who gets tagged sells for a while and then makes the second hot tag. I don't like that format at all. The strength of these matches is when the pacing quickens. It did eventually, but only for the finish. It just wasn't worth it here. 

John Cena vs. Ryback - ***1/2*

The lumberjack was okay. The only interesting moment in the Lumberjack match was when Ryback shoved one of the heels, causing all of them to gang up on Ryback, then Cena flew off the turnbuckle and onto the lumberjacks. Everything else was very basic. The tables match was another "okay" match. I guess I liked Ryback's failed attempts of putting John through a table, but it was another standard match. The ambulence match was pure shit. They just took the truck apart and hit each other with the parts. The main event kind of brought this event down for me. 

Overall, 7/10


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone else enjoying this opening promo?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk making the WHC look relevant, if only for one segment :lol.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

it's good. Interesting to see if Del Rio can keep this up.


Punk/Del Rio & Bryan/Orton should be good. Especially the latter given Bryans run of TV matches.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Good start to the show, Del Rio did pretty well there. Crowd reacting to him too. This'll be a good show.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Where are they tonight? Crowd seemed pretty good. I'm assuming they're close to Chicago.


----------



## Hypno (Aug 3, 2009)

edit wrong thread woops.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

RAW has been good in the last couple of weeks IMO. Another promising night.


----------



## Hypno (Aug 3, 2009)

edit wrong thread woops.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

BEST. RAW. EVER.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Christian! :mark:

They're in Michigan I believe, btw.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

CHRISTIAN IS BACK AND GETTING A GOOD MATCH OUT OF WADE BARRETT.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Oh good, Orton Vs Bryan will be a No DQ match so that Bryan can bump for Orton's shitty offense all night.

YAY.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That's irrelevant said:


> CHRISTIAN IS BACK AND GETTING A GOOD MATCH OUT OF WADE BARRETT.


That gif. :lmao


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Has there ever been a handicap match where the advantage wins? lul. What is the point of this?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Has there ever been a handicap match where the advantage wins? lul. What is the point of this?


YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT

And they still destroy Cody. WHAT DID HE DO?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Has there ever been a handicap match where the advantage wins? lul. What is the point of this?


Oh alright then.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

We're blatantly being worked, Henry isn't retiring, someone will come out for one big last feud?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah I don't think Henry's retiring, they wouldn't have said it before he did. I'm confident the Hall Of Pain is still open for business.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

OMG, SANDOW PINNED SHEAMUS! This is officially the greatest Raw ever. In fact, I'm so happy I'm not upset at all Henry's retiring... okay, well that's the case, but it does soften the blow.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

First :henry1 out moment in a while.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I heard...STUFF. WHAT STUFF IS THERE!? WHAT'S HAPPENING!??!??!?!???

Cesaro v. REGAL!!????????


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;19832305 said:


> First :henry1 out moment in a while.


Agreed. One of the best segments that I've seen in a LONG, long time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That segment was unreal.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Holy shit Henry you sneaky bastard! Had me all emotional legit thinking he was retiring then BAM - Hall Of Pain still open. He was tearing up and thanking his family and everything. Goddamn.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: ....


















I......I need a cigarette.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That's it. I'm never changing my avatar.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

That has me wanting to watch some Henry though anybody wanna link some good shit I can watch after RAW?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Holy shit Henry you sneaky bastard! Had me all emotional legit thinking he was retiring then BAM - Hall Of Pain still open. He was tearing up and thanking his family and everything. Goddamn.


His daughter was sat cheering thinking daddy was coming home. Then that.

ULTIMATE HEEL MODE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

What WWE should do now:

-Have Henry beat Cena for the WWE Title
-Have Henry hold the title until Mania and be the mega dominant heel of the WWE
-Have Bryan win the Rumble
-Have Bryan beat Henry for the title at Mania

Then at WM30 after Cena turns heel (hopefully), Bryan/Heel Cena... or they could keep Cena face and have Face Bryan/Face Cena at like Summerslam and have Cena turn heel then, either during the match leading to a title win or afterwards.

How it will be:



Spoiler: Spoiler for the future



CENA WINS!


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Raw. That Raw was AWESOME.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Summer definitely looks good right now. Holy shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH MY FUCKING GOD.

I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.

Ì'M ABOUT TO FUCKING EXPLODE.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'm tempted to watch RAW tonight based on reviews (still hasn't aired in the west).

Spoiler: I won't. Michael Cole still announces.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If Lesnar jobs to Punk... FUCK THIS COMPANY.

But otherwise, I'm fine with it. HENRY was awesome tonight!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

everything besides the actually wresting in that raw was great

henry/cena, punk/brock, adr/ziggler cont, christian back good things for the summer, oh and dbryan


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Holy fuck, what an awesome Raw. Ok, there wasn't actually that much wrestling but the segments tonight were just superb. Really enjoyed the opening with Del Rio and Punk, AJ's interaction with Steph was very good and the whole 'which McMahon is in charge' thing is intriguing. Cesaro is now a We The People man randomly but we got a Regal sighting (although fuck them for giving Regal the ultimate jobber entrance). Mark Henry TROLLING EVERYONE, Ziggler arrives and then the Lesnar/Punk showdown. :mark:

Oh and Christian's back too! Awesome Raw is awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

NO. NO. NO.

I DON'T THINK ANY OF YOU UNDERSTAND THE MARKDOM THAT'S GOING ON RIGHT NOW.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Thought last night they're well placed to develop stories. Not only have they done that but they've planted the seeds for a few more BIG ones to take place over the summer. Absolutely brilliant RAW.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> OH MY FUCKING GOD.
> 
> I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.
> 
> Ì'M ABOUT TO FUCKING EXPLODE.


DUDE YOU PREDICTED ALL OF IT TOO.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That RAW put the Attitude Era (and all others) to shame. Every segment served a purpose and every segment helped build up a future angle. Glorious main event with a great match, awesome Ziggler appearance, and the potential for one of the greatest matches of all-time.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

You just knew Brock wasn't going to say a word despite grabbing the mic. :lol Seriously hyped as fuck for Punk/Lesnar though, thought it would happen but not this soon.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Raw of the year by a country fucking mile. May even be Raw of this decade so far... though I'd have to think harder about that. But yeah, can't think of anything I didn't enjoy on Raw off the top of my head. 

And then that ending... Punk/Lesnar... I marked hard. The atmosphere. The "oh-shit" look on Punk. The epic staredown, and then that amazing F-5... not to mention that smile on Lesnar's face after it. 

Why can't all Raws be like this one? Or at least most of them.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Finally get to (Hopefully) see Lesnar in a non gimmick match since the return.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THIS IS FUCKING INSANE.

unk2 :brock

:cena2 :henry1


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont think Ive gone from all most tearing up to being overjoy quicker then in the henry segment. I screamed "big mark" for 5 minutes for some reason and my mom comes in the room to ask if Im ok and then saw the tv


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Plus we have Bryan/Ambrose on Smackdown, and _still_ the debut of The Wyatt Family to come. I haven't been this excited over WWE for a while.

Does this Raw top the Raw after Mania this year?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

summerslam has All time great potential if cena/henry stretches to then


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That RAW put the Attitude Era (and all others) to shame. Every segment served a purpose and every segment helped build up a future angle. Glorious main event with a great match, awesome Ziggler appearance, and the potential for one of the greatest matches of all-time.


Let's not get out of control now. I will say, this is the one of the most ridiculously good raws out there. And it wasn't because of a rampaging crowd :


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Destroys it.

Dear GOD, I don't even know what to say. This company has taken a complete 180 direction from what it was last week.

THIS IS WHY I LOVE WRESTLING.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah raw after mania will always be my favorite because of the crowd, ziggler cash in was a mark out moment and I live in jersey. This was a great raw nonetheless


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think this one has it beat. The Raw after Mania was all about the crowd (though there were some great moments too), this felt awesome all the way through and would have been good even with an average crowd.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

RAW after Mania was nothing special. From an overall standpoint, this one shits on it. Though I can see why Ziggy fans dig the other RAW.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Does this Raw top the Raw after Mania this year?


Easily, and that show was great, but this week's... there was literally nothing bad and it had sooooo much awesomeness. I mean the Cena promo could've been shorter, but it did what it had to and it wasn't anything too bad. But just every quarter of the show ruled.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Before I praise this show, I want to say that WWE people now have no excuse for a bad show. Even before Brock arrived (which I was sure wouldn't happen), this show was very, very good. 

I loved Del Rio's opening promo. Always thought he was better as a heel, and I liked him early on as a face, but tonight was pretty good. 

Christian is BACK. About time. And he looked pretty good in his first match back. 

Shield powerbombing Kane could lead to Brothers of Destruction/Shield at Summerslam. At least I read that WWE wanted it, and I'd love to see it.

MARK HENRY WITH THE GREATEST TROLL OF ALL TIME. I was tearing up while he was talking. Like legit. First time since Shawn retired that I've done that. I hope that Cena's promo before Henry came out when he said that "whoever holds the title next will be deserving" was foreshadowing a Henry win. Would just love that. Like, legit LOVE it.

Dolph got his, and DAT BROCK RETURN. JUST DAMN. I am curious to see how they handle it. I guess they're just starting the build for Summerslam now, like last year. Look forward to next week.

I will say that I wish I could get paid that much money to appear for 5 minutes and then fly back to the house. 

Great show. Just great.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Plus we have Bryan/Ambrose on Smackdown, and _still_ the debut of The Wyatt Family to come. I haven't been this excited over WWE for a while.
> 
> Does this Raw top the Raw after Mania this year?


Raw after Mania had the better crowd, but not the better show. Ryback ending the show or Brock ending the show? :brock


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oh yes, iwatchwrestling reminded me of the one thing I didn't like, Del Rio's promo. The man just can't work the stick and his delivery and English are terrible. His promo tonight wasn't good at all aside from some of the lines themselves and I have to laugh at how little heat he's still getting after what he pulled last night. Punk though made that segment as a whole great, and because of it, combined with the rest of the show, I completely forgot about that Del Rio promo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

christian should really turn heel, with punk,ziggler,cena,orton(has turned yet),kane,dbryan there really is not room for anything of meaning for him that way. Future feud with a face ziggler for whc :mark:

Edit: adr really has weak mic skills I'm cringing watching him in the promo


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Raw after Mania was good for the crowd and Ziggler's cash-in. Tonight's episode featured so much more content. Henry acted out maybe the segment of the year, Bryan & Orton was having a good match before the little injury angle, RVD is returning, BROCK is back, Del Rio/Ziggler double turn is still a thing of beauty, Axel making the IC Title look good, Aj/Kaitlyn have a decent divas feud and the McMahons. There's a lot going on right now. PUNK vs. LESNAR with HEYMAN :mark:


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

It's 4:30 am and I'm hyped as fuck, and it's already getting light outside. Why can't Raw do this to me every week?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

This can't be real life :mark: :mark: :mark:

Lesnar/Punk
Cena/Henry
ZIGGLER
DANIEL FUCKING BRYAN
An actually great divas feud
MCMAHONS 

I'M GOING TO DIE


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

random question but I see everyone talking am what time raw starts for them and what time it is right now. is they anyone on here that from America ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Henry Segment was easily the best segment I've seen in a REALLY long time. Henry's so fucking talented, the fact that he's heading into the biggest match of his career is just... Mesmerizing for a Henry fan who thought he was done just a few hours ago, amazing.

& Brock-Punk is just.. My ultimate dream match, and it's happening. Words can't describe how I feel right now; Punk remains the focal point of the company, and Lesnar gets to fuck shit up. Don't even give a flying fuck as to who wins, now I'm pulling for Punk simply because they're just going to feed Brock to The Rock at the end of the day anyways.

PUNK IS IN THAT CENA-TAKER-BROCK-HHH LEAGUE. YES. 

The two matches that I've DREAMED for this year are happening, somebody care to wake me up from this dream :mark:?


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Loved RAW, one of the few times that I'd watch it all over again.. Few things I didn't care for like Cesaro match and devlopment.. I think it will flop and Axel/Cara was weak but all of the segments were gold.. 

I don't mind the way they setup Cena/Henry but I said this right afterwards on twitter, they should have had Henry retire, leave the arena only to come back and end the show giving Cena a WSS.. But that was in hindsight not knowing Brock would be back.

Here's what I want for Summerslam

Cena/ Henry in some gimmick match.

Brock/Punk 1 Heyman in neutral corner.

The Shield vs. Brothers of destruction.

Daniel Bryan vs. Orton

Damien Sandow vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Sheamus

Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio

Dean Ambrose vs. RVD - ladder match for u.s title and MITB briefcase

Curtis Axel vs. Christian

AJ vs. Kaitlyn - Steel Cage match

^Great Summerslam.. I'd buy it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> random question but I see everyone talking am what time raw starts for them and what time it is right now. is they anyone on here that from America ?


In Texas. Murica FTW.

And yes, Cena/Henry segment was easily the best of the night. Terrific work from Henry. REALLY want him to win the strap.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> The two matches that I've DREAMED for this year are happening, somebody care to wake me up from this dream :mark:?


Now if we can also get Bryan/Cena later this year that would be almost too awesome!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The only issue I have with Lesnar/Punk, is neither of them should lose. However I'm with Beast Incarnate in the thought process that if Lesnar is just going to end up losing to Rock at WM30, have Punk beat him. Then again, if Lesnar's is gonna end up going over Rock or facing Taker at Mania, then Lesnar should probably win more. But then again Punk really can't afford to lose another big match... but Lesnar's already 2-2 and to go 2-3 would be terrible. FUCK, if only he didn't lose against Cena or against HHH at Mania... then he could afford a fluky loss to Punk and this choice would be easier. 

But I tell ya, the unpredictability of who will win is going to make the match amazing. You could really see either guy winning.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> The only issue I have with Lesnar/Punk, is neither of them should lose. However I'm with Beast Incarnate in the thought process that if Lesnar is just going to end up losing to Rock at WM30, have Punk beat him. Then again, if Lesnar's is gonna end up going over Rock or facing Taker at Mania, then Lesnar should probably win more. But then again Punk really can't afford to lose another big match... but Lesnar's already 2-2 and to go 2-3 would be terrible. FUCK, if only he didn't lose against Cena or against HHH at Mania... then he could afford a fluky loss to Punk and this choice would be easier.
> 
> But I tell ya, the unpredictability of who will win is going to make the match amazing. You could really see either guy winning.


I think Heyman's involvement will be key in who wins.. I mean if he's neutral, I lean Brock's way but if he's with Brock all the way then he could cost him the match by accident. I want to see Punk stiff brock a few times cause he's gonna need the believability since Brock can pick him up like a twig.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> In Texas. Murica FTW.
> 
> And yes, Cena/Henry segment was easily the best of the night. Terrific work from Henry. REALLY want him to win the strap.


Murcia indeed from jersey reason I ask is somebody said its 430am there time and try watching raw. That must suck to have to wait to early morings to watch wwe

excited for henry/cena


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HENRY is one of the only few people I'd actually wanna see beat Cena for the title, although I don't see it happening to be honest. Money in the Bank's card is probably going to rule; Cena-Henry, TWO MITB LADDER MATCHES, Ziggler-Del Rio (can't believe I'm excited for this, Dolph's work tonight was mark worthy), and Christian-Axel more than likely with Punk doing SOMETHING as well.

I find it hilarious how Punk's more than likely going to overshadow the WWE title all summer, yet when it happened to him he wasn't a worthy champion, right?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> The Henry Segment was easily the best segment I've seen in a REALLY long time. Henry's so fucking talented, the fact that he's heading into the biggest match of his career is just... Mesmerizing for a Henry fan who thought he was done just a few hours ago, amazing.
> 
> & Brock-Punk is just.. My ultimate dream match, and it's happening. Words can't describe how I feel right now; Punk remains the focal point of the company, and Lesnar gets to fuck shit up. Don't even give a flying fuck as to who wins, now I'm pulling for Punk simply because they're just going to feed Brock to The Rock at the end of the day anyways.
> 
> ...


To think I was watching Punk ten years ago in front of hundreds of fans in ROH. And now he's on this level. It's a crazy feeling. I was always hoping he'd get big in the WWE but I can't say I fully expected it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Henry WSM & Brock's music hitting were two of the biggest markout moments for me the ENTIRE YEAR, and they both happened on the same show.

:henry1


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I think Cena may have foreshadowed Henry winning the belt when he said "I'm not going to hold this belt forever and the person that beats me truly deserves it".

I can't think of a more deserving champion than Mark Henry. Even if it's a one month reign where he drops the belt back to Cena at Summerslam.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

I feel like such a puppet.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed.

Fuck the idea of Cena passing Flair's 16 World Titles, who cares. If it involves Henry winning THE BIG ONE now that the WHC has been reduced to absolute fucking shit then I'm all for him winning it only for Cena to get it back. PLEASE LET HENRY WIN THIS.

By the way, when you want to talk about Punk's popularity, you should look no further than this; 

_List of individuals who have main evented the most PPVs since brand split PPVs ended_

Cena ~ 30

Punk ~ 14

HHH ~ 12

Orton ~ 12

Edge ~ 10

Undertaker ~ 10

Shawn Michaels ~ 6

The Rock ~ 5

Jeff Hardy ~ 5

Batista ~ 5

Note that this only considers going on LAST & doesn't take into account Elimination Chambers or Royal Rumble matches going on last.

CM GOAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, that ending of RAW was something else.

:mark:


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> Well, that ending of RAW was something else.
> 
> :mark:


Lesnar and Punk hopefully lead to some great matches. Lesnar is going over for sure, they want to build him for when he faces the Rock at WM30. But it's nice rub for Punk and hopefully he get a win during the feud or at least come out even stronger.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Great Raw between Cena/Henry, Punk/Lesnar, Cesaro and a PG Era nip slip that Raw had everything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Build for who? Idk, Brock vs Punk. That's all that needs to be said here. And Dolph coming out destroying Del Rio while the crowd ate it up. This isn't even talking about Cesaro being on the good side of booking by the looks of it & Mark Henry's absolutely phenomenal segment.

Hot damn. Best RAW ever without a match worth checking out. If only Danielson had a good match, it really would have been complete.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD DAMN IT PUNK & BROCK, DO A TRILOGY PLZ. EVERYBODY WINS.

Cena loses the belt to Henry, wins it back at Summerslam. EVERYBODY WINS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meanwhile Danielson holds the MITB briefcase x2.

A perfect world.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I was thinking of who Punk will face now at MITB, and what if it's HHH? :mark: Might seem a little out there, but they could have Punk come out and challenge Lesnar for SummerSlam only to have the match denied by HHH after having experienced firsthand what Lesnar is capable of. Punk instead challenges HHH to a match at MITB with a stipulation of Punk getting his match with Lesnar if he wins.

Would be better than the predictable alternative that they'll probably go with instead(Punk/Axel) imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I doubt Punk even wrestles at MITB to be honest.

So who takes the two briefcases this year, anybody care to take a stab at it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unsure. You raise up a nice scenario, despite me not caring to see Triple H work ever again. Only interest there would be Punk defeating Trips and that's purely personal, of course.

I wouldn't object to a Punker vs Axel match. It would be a solid - not in a insulting way - filler bridge for Punk vs Heyman's crew type deal to prepare for Punk vs Lesnar come SummerSlam. I know I'd care to see Axel vs Punk on a PPV than I would Axel vs face Miz.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sd- dbryan/sheamus/orton

raw- punk if he competes/ryback(save us)


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I doubt Punk even wrestles at MITB to be honest.
> 
> So who takes the two briefcases this year, anybody care to take a stab at it?


I think he be in the MITB for Raw myself and Lesnar will screw him out of winning it. 

I think Bryan will win the RAW one leading to Cena/Bryan at Summerslam or later on in the year.

I think Cesaro might be a outside chance for the Smackdown one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson & Kane are gunning for the WWE Championship, remember? They'll be in that match. 

This is all IF there will be two ladder matches too. There could only be one for all we know.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They had Christian squash Barrett, so I'm guessing that they're going to do Christian-Axel as an IC title feud.

That, or he'll be in the MITB match. I'm anticipating who's going to win the RAW case because I have absolutely no idea at the moment.


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Bryan for Raw. RVD for smackdown

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They aren't brand specific btw guys...


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> sd- dbryan/sheamus/orton
> 
> raw- punk if he competes/ryback(save us)


I think Bryan and Orton be in for the Raw one. Along with Punk, Jericho, Rvd, Ryback.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

brandiexoxo said:


> Bryan for Raw. RVD for smackdown
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I was just about to post this answer. I wouldn't be surprised if RVD is in one of the MITB Ladder matches. WWE Title briefcase should definitely go to DB imo.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well, who the hell wants to win a case for a glorified midcard title anyways ?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

A former World Champion MITB could be Bryan/Orton/Punk/Swagger/Miz/Kane leaving Ryback/Sandow/Cesaro/Axel/Barrett/Ambrose fire the other one with Bryan and Cesaro being ideal winners. It will be entirely different though I'm just guessing/hoping.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

What did you guys think of Orton/Bryan on Raw Tonight?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Cesaro for Smackdown. Bryan for Raw.

Wouldn't mind seeing RVD win one though


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> So who takes the two briefcases this year, anybody care to take a stab at it?


The briefcase for the World Heavyweight Title: Antonio Cesaro or Big E. Langston

Briefcase for the WWE Championship: Daniel Bryan

I'd accept Damien Sandow, a member of The Shield, Wade Barrett, Cody Rhodes, or Christian as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Well, who the hell wants to win a case for a glorified midcard title anyways ?


Well if tonight means anything, it sure as hell doesn't seem like that stigma will remain for much longer.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Bryan and Sandow are my initial guesses for briefcase winners. They seem to have a renewed interest in Sandow and I suspect that him winning one of the briefcases might be the reason. Although I think Cena's win last year may start a pattern where guys who are already main event players start to win the briefcases, so I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Sheamus or Ryback winning one. I also agree that they could very well go back to one MITB match this year tbhayley.

FUCK I was planning on watching Payback after Raw but I'm still just too hyped :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So I've made my way through about 200 Henry TV singles bouts and I have to say that I'm extremely impressed with the guy's TV work. He REALLY blossomed in his 2011 - 2012 run, but I always felt he was one of the better TV workers in 2003 & ESPECIALLY 2006 where he fucking ruled the earth alongside the likes of Finlay, Mysterio, & Benoit. His matches against the likes of Bryan, Mysterio, Punk, Goldberg, HBK, Tajiri, etc really stood out to me and even though I still have a bulk of his 2010 face run still left, I'm going to move onto the PPV singles first to change things up a bit before finally moving onto the tags (maybe, haven't decided if I should check out Henry tags, maybe if I get a list of 50 - 100 I should check out then I will). 

Realized that Henry's more of a consistently GREAT guy (for you STARZ AFICIONADOS that's akin to **** - *** 1/2*) on TV rather than a guy who produces a classic one week and works on cruise control a bulk of the time. I'll tell you one thing about Henry that really stood out to me though; he RARELY has a bad match. I mean, GOD DAMN in the 2000s I have the guy as having only a handful of matches that I'd call bad, and a majority of them are really short anyways. Can't wait to dive into these PPV encounters so I can start piecing everything together.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On MITB:

Raw- TBH, I think whoever wins it loses on cash-in. Cena mentioned it and I'm certain he's going over Henry as well (despite how awful that is), but I can see someone trying to cash it in and losing. And tbh, I could see this cruel fate being put on the man who's become WWE's resident glorified jobber, Wade Barrett.

SD- Plz be Sandow, Plz be Sandow, Plz be Sandow, Plz be Sandow... will probably be Axel or Sheamus though.

I don't see Bryan winning a briefcase tbh. I imagine he'll win the WWE title without the use of the briefcase at some point in the next 12 months.

And on Punk/Lesnar, it's going to be great seeing Lesnar work with someone not named HHH. Hopefully Punk can give Lesnar his first great matches since ER 2012.

Oh, and also on the WWE Title stuff, while I'm happy that WWE is giving Henry a WWE title feud, does anyone else find it kinda fucked up that him and Ryback, before they started feuding with Cena, lost their last matches? Just something to think about...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Until I hear otherwise, I'm getting a one MITB match vibe atm. It all feels like jocking for position towards whichever championship the winner wants to cash it on more than specific to each major strap. I wouldn't object to being wrong here; _(obviously)_ feeling like there might not be a World Championship match all on its own. Who knows at this rate. If there is, then I'd love this to be the springboard for Cesaro.

I'm def going to watch Payback again tonight. I don't think my opinion will change at all. Maybe just thinking even more of the World Championship match than I already do.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched the Brock-Punk staredown about 20 times by now; gives me chills every single time.

Anybody else as pumped for this feud as I am?

OHYEAHMATCHTALK: I can't decide which Punk-Henry affair I like more from last year's series, as the first one featured a more slow-burning type of storytelling while the No DQ match was more of a back and forth and more intelligent contest. Both hit the four star mark and are among Henry's best matches, but I'm having a hard time placing one over the other for obvious reasons. There is however, a clear cut number one at this point.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Anybody else as pumped for this feud as I am?


*Raises hand*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm saying MOTY potential already, Punk and Lesnar have both proven themselves to be consistent big time PPV workers with Punk's babyface niche' being against monster heels ALA Mark Henry, and Lesnar's heel niche being against anybody he can impose his physical prowess on (everybody). If anybody wants to know where my expectations for the match are, I'm expecting something along the lines of Brock-Benoit mixed in with shades of Brock-Cena from Extreme Rules 2012 with just a dash of Punk's innovation from his series with Henry in 2012 as well.

To say that I have huge expectations would be an understatement.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The only person I feel that deserves a MITB right now is Bryan, except that 1) he already won it and 2) I want him to chase the title and not have a cash in victory.

I'd love for Barrett or Cesaro to win it, but they've fucked their booking so bad, that I couldn't believe it if they did. 

As far as the matches/participants, having more than one kind of ruins it for me. 

I also don't like what they did last year and had only former world champs in the Raw match. Match wasn't terrible I guess, but it limited the potential participants, and having Big Show, Kane, and Cena in that match just didn't do it for me. Now having Mysterio/Jericho in there helped, then of course Miz returned that night. At least we came of out it with this GOAT smiley. :cena4

Edit: Perhaps we're forgetting about the possibilities of GAME/Bryan? Or this is just a one time deal:

http://www.wwe.com/videos/triple-h-explains-what-happened-wwecom-exclusive-june-17-2013-26124411


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I'm saying MOTY potential already, Punk and Lesnar have both proven themselves to be consistent big time PPV workers with Punk's babyface niche' being against monster heels ALA Mark Henry, and Lesnar's heel niche being against anybody he can impose his physical prowess on (everybody). If anybody wants to know where my expectations for the match are, I'm expecting something along the lines of Brock-Benoit mixed in with shades of Brock-Cena from Extreme Rules 2012 with just a dash of Punk's innovation from his series with Henry in 2012 as well.
> 
> To say that I have huge expectations would be an understatement.


I'm with ya man. We know what Punk can do as the babyface in peril and we know what Lesnar can do as the destructive unstoppable heel. It has MOTY written all over it unless for some strange reason, the two end up having no chemistry.

Although...

... I should say second best MOTY. Nothing will beat Sandow & Rhodes vs. Sheamus from Raw last night. DAMIEN "MUTHAFUCKIN" SANDOW PINNED SHEAMUS! :mark:

Rating- *****


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Anybody else as pumped for this feud as I am?


*Raises hand higher* 

Assuming this match happens at Summerslam, I'm so envious of my sister seeing as she will be at Summerslam.

I'm definitely expecting a potential MOTY, especially since so far this year nothing has been absolutely amazing like the previous 4 years (Taker/HBK 1&2, Cena/Punk, Cena/Brock). If we get anything like Brock/Benoit, Evan ill mark the fuck out since its a top 3 Favourite TV match ever for me personally. I haven been this excited while watching the product since probably MITB 11.


----------



## Slider575 (May 14, 2013)

Sandow/Cesaro/RVD/Bryan are sure to make the MITB match amazing


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let Brock control it and have Punk get creative with his comeback and you have the MOTY right there.

Brock just GETS IT. One thing I can say about Brock's work is that for a majority of the time he doesn't fall into the WWE main event trap that is finishers on top of finishers and kickouts on top of kickouts, instead relying on his expressions, mannerisms, & physical charisma to steer his matches (something I hope Punk understands about the guy). Punk's biggest strength in the ring is his intelligence, so naturally the story should be Punk using his intelligence to find some hole in Lesnar's seemingly impenetrable offense to relay his comeback around. 

It's going to be different from the HHH series (which I love) simply because of the difference in how HHH and Punk convey their art; HHH relies more on expository factors such as actually SAYING how he feels during his matches, this leads to alt of his work being criticized as bad melodrama. Punk is more of an intelligence based grappler who will no doubt break down film on what made Brock-Cena so great and tweak things in his own little way to see how he can elaborate on it. 

I just want Punk & Brock to give me more reasons as to why they should both be higher and higher on my GOAT workers list.

EDIT: & Sam I agree about the MARKING OUT part as things are looking good from the company at all angles; Dolph-Del Rio looks better than ever, Cena-Henry are poised for an epic feud, SHIELD, Bryan, not forgetting the obvious CM FUCKING PUNK VS BROCK FUCKING LESNAR MATCH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finished Dolph vs Del Rio for the second time. Yeah, that's going up in my books. One point I didn't quite notice last night that I really thought was incredible was how Del Rio totally baited Langston into getting ejected. The moment he left ringside Del Rio was shown with the sliest grin ever seen. He knew his plan worked. What drama in that match. As I stated in my original review, fantastic character work from both and probably a lock (so far) for my favorite character work in a match all year long. Great stuff. Only made Dolph coming out tonight on RAW that much more of a insane "mark out" moment for me. This is the Dolph Ziggler program I've been dying for.

******


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> EDIT: & Sam I agree about the MARKING OUT part as things are looking good from the company at all angles; Dolph-Del Rio looks better than ever, Cena-Henry are poised for an epic feud, SHIELD, Bryan, not forgetting the obvious CM FUCKING PUNK VS BROCK FUCKING LESNAR MATCH.


Yer I can't remember in quite sometime, that I was invested in so many different aspects of the WWE, like the double turn from last night which should start up a nice face run for Dolph. Cena/Henry set for an awesome feud, Punk/Lesnar coming on the horizon. Bryan and the Shield killing it every week. Lots of new stars such as the Wyatt Family ready to hit the main roster. Yer mate surely WWE can't ruin this. Just keep the McMahon drama to a minimum please 

Dolph/Del Rio :mark: such a great character driven performance last night for both men a personal favourite of mine for this year ******. I don't know if anyone noticed the slightly botched rocker dropper, which I thought was accidentally perfectly executed playing up the concussion angle, in which a botched move comes across ok seeing as how much physical and mental damage he has taken.. Sort of in the way HBK landed on Takers knee at WM 26.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought the rocker dropper looking a tad off was more fault of Del Rio than anything and in a fashion to where it was hectic by that point for Dolph to get ANY offense that it all worked out well despite it not looking "pretty". Only added in with the rest. But jesus, the part where Dolph shoos away the trainer to continue the match only to be blasted in the back of the head with a dropkick by Del Rio is too much. Phenomenal moment. The part of the match where it was like _"oh shoot. this guy is an asshole. What in the heck am I seeing?"_ Great stuff.

Tonight's promo by Del Rio was (Y) too


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

JBL sold it to perfection, suggesting that Dolph's head must seriously be messed up b/c it was very uncharacteristic of him to lose his balance the way he did.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

I don't now if I'm a heartless bastard or not, but I loved Dolph being kicked in the head for nearly 10 minutes, I had several texts from mates saying they found it disturbing. Where as I could t help but :mark: 

Absolutely agree one of the best promos Del Rio has done too date.

^ This is as well, JBL really helped sell the moment like you said.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dug it from the standpoint of being blown away by what I was seeing. Match did a number on me as I walked into Payback thinking it would be another run of the mill match between the two, Dolph would win, & that was that. Instead we got what he saw: a double turn with a desperately reckless turn of events. It's a tense angle and that's why I like it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I remember two years ago when Henry was going to face Orton and NOC for the WHC. No one thought Mizark was going to win because they thought he was just going to be a monster heel for the top babyface to slay. And we were proven wrong.

I think Henry might just win at MITB.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Orton was no Cena.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Henry cutting the promo and performing the segment of his career.

Punk and Lesnar confrontation

Ziggler official face turn

Del Rio actually cutting a good promo

Christian returning

Wyatt family incoming debut

RVD returning at MITB

Daniel Bryan on his WWE championship quest


WWE is on a fucking roll


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Jim Ross revealed a partial list of matches that will be on The Legends of Mid-South Wrestling DVD



> Ted DiBiase vs. Paul Ordnorff
> Andre, Dusty Rhodes & JYD vs The Wild Samoans and Ernie Ladd
> Jim Duggan vs. DiBiase Coal Miner's Glove, Tuxedo, Loser Leaves Town Match
> Wrestling 2 mentoring Magnum TA storyline
> ...


Source - http://www.jrsbarbq.com/blog/jrs-pa...d-match-listuk-spoken-word-tour-infoorder-jrs


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Midnight Express vs Rock N' Roll Express match(es) made it. Yep, must buy.

Got to see Duggan vs Gordy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Putting DiBiase v. Michaels on there probably just to get a Michaels match is kind of lame, but a lot of that is really good and in some cases classic-level. I hope people come out thinking Gang v. Bubba is five stars. Seriously, JR should have called it 'perfect super-heavyweight bout'.

I thought Ric Flair v. Terry Taylor was supposed to be on it?


----
MORE HENRY. 

Mark Henry v. Kane v. Big Daddy V v. The Great Khali (ECW 10/30/07)
Why the fuck does this have 16 million views on youtube? Seems bizarre. I’m not really complaining about it, even if so many views inspire turds to come and comment about how fake wrestling is. Mark Henry should murder them. It just seems like an odd thing that millions would watch. Only goes a few minutes and we get weird moments like V stopping Henry from lifting Khali (which looked awesome). Dunno why you’d do that in an elimination battle royal. Henry choking Khali only for V to come running with a corner splash was pretty fucking great, an the finish was a good power spot. OK stuff.

Mark Henry v. Daniel Bryan (Saturday Morning Slam 4/13/13)
OK so I totally missed this and don’t recall even hearing about it happening. This is Saturday Morning Slam so they don’t really air head-shots the (Henry’s theme is an instrumental so the kiddies don’t hear ‘ass’), and I thought they did the best they could all things considered. I got kind of tired of Bryan’s child-like act last year, but it works really well on a show like this. He tries to get Henry to hug him and uses the crowd as some sort of convincement. Henry agrees before getting him in a beahug, and Bryan’s selling in the bearhug was really cool. He clearly sold it as a dangerous move, but he had more of a ‘Shaggy and Scooby are being chased by a ghost’ comedic trouble selling to him than a ‘violent move’ trouble selling to him. Didn’t feel too silly, either. The camera cuts to the commentators while Bryan escapes the bearhug because they can’t air headshots. Ziggler was on commentary and Henry threatens him after Zigg laughs at Henry missing a splash, which was awesome. Henry oversold one bump, but the bump was really tremendous for a guy that big and heavy. I thought they paired up extremely well, even with all of the restrictions (and this went like three minutes). 

Mark Henry/The Great Khali/Natalya v. William Regal/Tyson Kidd/Melina (SuperStars 3/10/11)
I wonder how many expected Henry to come out of nowhere and have his career run the same year he was doing this. This was pretty bad, even for one minute or whatever. Goddamn I forgot how completely fucking stupid Tyson Kidd’s hair used to be. We only get, like, literally ten seconds of Henry v. Regal so…..Henry v. Regal. Henry v, Regal. Henry v. Regal. Excuse me for a second I have something to look for.



So the good news is some people like pitting Henry against Regal in SmackDown v. Raw games……...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm glad you checked out the awesome Danielson vs Henry match from Slam and laughing non-stop that you watched that farce of a six person tag match after it. That match was so shit I can't believe WWE booked it. Why did everyone turn on Kidd? What in the hell was the point? It could have been Henry vs Regal in a singles match...

btw, PLEASE tell me you saw RAW. Oh please.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Erm, Brock fucking Lesnar was on Raw??????? Thought we wouldn't see him again 'till Summerslam, fuck yeah. Watching Raw as soon as I get home. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BROCK marked his territory. It was stellar.

This whole RAW was chalk full of some grand moments.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> btw, PLEASE tell me you saw RAW. Oh please.


Hasn't aired yet, but I know the basics of what happened and plan to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two key things stuck out to me that you're going to dig. You have to know them by now probably. I won't spoil though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Bryan/Orton from last night, ***1/4, great match until the stupid finnish


----------



## NatP (Aug 9, 2011)

Guys, can you imagine this scenario? Mark Henry somehow manages to win the WWE title and after that Daniel Bryan challenges Mark and we get Bryan/Mark v.2 but for the WWE title! :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havnt said this in a while - Raw was fucking great, no really great. Loved Christian's return, Henry stuff was GOLD, even had me im ashamed to say lol, oh and BROCK LESNAR, OMFG that was good, I honestly thought he was going to say something, but them BAM! Amazing. 

Crowd were really good too, which was nice. Wonder if the Punk/Brock part is on YT yet...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

zep81 said:


>


I didn't watch RAW, but this is awesome. 

I've heard good reviews as a whole from last night's RAW, can't wait to watch it. Heard Christian returned too. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shit, sorry mate should have realised, didn't mean to spoil it dude.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

First time I've been happy with everything on Raw for a long ass time. I don't know what happened - whether there was a massive overhaul in creative or things just lined up perfectly - but that's the type of show I want to watch every week. Absolutely everything had a purpose. 

VERY happy to see Christian back, and Henry's retirement might have been the best segment all year (HOLY SHIT! :mark. Then there's Cesaro aligning with Coulter (and his opponent :mark, Brock attacking Punk, and Bryan continuing his stride. Plus the McMahon's being used to cushion the show instead of taking the spotlight. Raw was chock-full of goodness.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Speaking of Cesaro, his match with Sami Zayn from the most recent NXT is really, really good. ****. Watch it if you haven't. It's basically a ton of Cesaro goodness and a solid babyface performance from Zayn too. Can't complain at all. Third match plz.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Raw was fantastic. I'm actually still in shock at the fact that they managed to produce 3 hours of quality TV with purpose and meaning behind practically every single segment. Where the fuck did that come from?

Orton/Bryan was looking real good until the stoppage. I hope we get to see this at MITB. The potential is most certainly there. And yeah, Cena/HENRY. Damn I marked so bad for that. He trolled us all and it was brilliant. And of course BORK IS BACK......well I'm sure he won't show up for another couple of weeks again lol but I still marked. 

MITB could end up Henry/Cena, Bryan/Orton, Dolph/ADR, Shield/Somebody, Axel/Somebody, AJ/Kaitlyn, RVD RETURN and the MITB match itself. Then there's Lesnar and Punk to consider too. Cool beans.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I just hope this Punk/Lesnar angle doesn't drag like the HHH/Lesnar one and is just a one-match deal where Lesnar wins at SummerSlam and moves on to something different. Fuck rematches.

Awesome Raw last night and I still can't believe it. Sucks Orton/Bryan was stopped, though. Excited to see where they go with this, I want Orton to turn heel and I kinda don't. The latter because I would love to see him wrestle Lesnar once Punk gets his turn. Also wish Sheamus would wrestle Lesnar as well but it seems like he's dropping down the card after the job he did last night. But still, BROCK will be here up until WM31 if I'm not mistaken, so there should be enough time to have some of these matches. Just hoping that they continue this way and don't fuck things up by having some stupid dance contests and a bunch of meaningless matches next week.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, excellent point about Brock. He is here until 2015, most people seem to think he's finished at WM30, but his new deal is supposed to be 2 years.

Of course that'll probably mean HHH again somewhere down the line.......Arrrrrrrggggghhhhh!!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bryan/Orton - ***3/4 (Despite the finish, it was great)

Raw overall was, indeed, better than the post-Mania show. Seeing Christian's return, Cesaro/Regal on Raw, Bork's return, etc. was :mark:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Shit, sorry mate should have realised, didn't mean to spoil it dude.


Lol no worries. I read spoilers all the time. Didn't watch RAW but the first thing I did this morning is come on here and check the RAW section to see what happened, glad to hear that RAW was good for once. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

moty so far

1)ziggler/del rio payback ****1/2
2)punk/taker wm 29 ****1/2
3)punk/cena feb 13 ****1/2
4)orton/hell no vs shield ****1/4
5) dolph/sheamus me ****1/4
6) dolph/del rio me ****1/4
7) shield vs Cena no may 13 ****1/4 
8) shield vs BOOM no ****
9) Shield vs BROs NO ****
10) Punk/Jericho payback ***3/4

probably missing a shield match


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I really don't see Lesnar/Orton.

Unless its a squash to put over Bork


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> moty so far
> 
> 1)ziggler/del rio payback ****1/2
> 2)punk/taker wm 29 ****1/2
> ...


For one you're missing Bryan vs Rollins on Raw which is top 5 for me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still think it's crazy how Henry's biggest match ever is actually on the horizon.

Money in the Bank 2013 is the day I will release the Henry list to celebrate.

:henry1


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I still think it's crazy how Henry's biggest match ever is actually on the horizon.
> 
> Money in the Bank 2013 is the day I will release the Henry list to celebrate.
> 
> :henry1


Seen as you're a massive Lesnar fan, what would you think of a Bryan/Lesnar feud?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that besides Punk, Brock-Bryan would be the perfect match for either guy speaking on a pure in-ring storytelling standpoint as Bryan is one HELL of a babyface and as we all know, Brock is pretty much the definition of ATHLETIC FREAK. I think the match would be the most athletic that Brock could have at this point and if you take that and mix it in with the fact that if booked right it coud turn Bryan into a MEGASTAR, then why not?

My Brock Wish List goes as follows:

1. CM Punk
2. Rematch w/Cena
3. The Undertaker
4. Daniel Bryan


5. MAYBE a face Dolph


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top Brock matches, folks?

vs Cena ER (*****)
vs Taker HIAC (****3/4)
vs Angle Iron Man (****3/4)
vs Angle SummerSlam (****1/2)
vs Benoit SD (****1/2)

Mine.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan/Lesnar should be done for SummerSlam next year. Would be an amazing match.

My dream matches involving Lesnar are:
1. Orton
2. Bryan
3. Undertaker
4. Sheamus
5. Rock
6. Cena rematch

Now I look at it, he still has plenty of opponents to choose from.

EDIT: Top 5 BROCK matches

vs Cena (ER)
vs Eddie (NWO)
vs Taker (NM)
vs Angle (SS)
vs Benoit (SD)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I know it will never happen, ever, but a simple five minute TV match with Evan Bourne would be all sorts of brilliance.

Edit: Lesnar matches I want to see

1. vs. Bryan
2. vs. Punk
3. vs. Cena rematch
4. vs. Mark Henry
5. vs. The Undertaker
6. vs. Christian
7. vs. Sheamus
8. vs. Evan Bourne
9. vs. Seth Rollins
10. vs. Cesaro


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Brock's PRIME opponents:
1. Cena rematch
2. Bryan
3. Face Ziggler
4. Undertaker
5. Sheamus


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just keep him THE FUCK away from The Rock and we're good.

Even though it's like, 100 percent going to happen because they both want it and it's the biggest money match the WWE has.

Mark Henry Vs Kurt Angle (Royal Rumble 2006) ~ ***
Mark Henry Vs Kurt Angle (Judgment Day 2006) ~ **** 1/2*

Rumble match has a few moments and isn't really horrendous, but yeah it's not great at all. Judgment Day on the other hand, fucking RULES.

Another interesting point is that Chris Benoit's last PPV appearance ever was being a Lumberjack during Mark Henry Vs Kane at One Night Stand 2007, which I'm checking out now.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just rewatched WM XIX:

Hardy/Rey- **3/4
A-Train&Show/Taker- **1/4
Trish/Jazz/Victoria- ***
T.A/Los.G/Rhino&Benoit- **3/4
Jericho/HBK- ****3/4
HHH/Booker- ***1/2
Hogan/McMahon- ****
Rock/StoneCold- ****1/4
Angle/Lesnar- ****1/2


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Just keep him THE FUCK away from The Rock and we're good.
> 
> Even though it's like, 100 percent going to happen because they both want it and it's the biggest money match the WWE has.
> 
> ...


lol why do folks keep thinking this Rock/Brock match is going to happen? Im sure the two would love to do battle with each other as they are real life friends, but Rock's done.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Another interesting point is that Chris Benoit's last PPV appearance ever was being a Lumberjack during Mark Henry Vs Kane at One Night Stand 2007, which I'm checking out now.


:lmao

This fucking company and their gross misuse of their best talents. If there's one thing in wrestling that pisses me off, it's how badly we were screwed out of so many potential match-ups involving Benoit. 



WrestlingforEverII said:


> lol why do folks keep thinking this Rock/Brock match is going to happen? Im sure the two would love to do battle with each other as they are real life friends, but Rock's done.


Keep believin' that. Rock will be back at some point, I don't even know if the injury was legitimate. Plus in the tweet he sent to Orton the other day, he ended it with "See ya soon" which could hint at him coming back at some point and he still hasn't fully denied if he will get in the ring again. Bad news for the haters, but good news for the rest of us! :rock4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dat WM 19, DAT ROCK/AUSTIN III.

Comparing that masterpiece to the Wrestlecrap fest that were Rock/Cena II and Rock/Punk RR... damn, 10 years is a long time indeed.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Match listings for ECW Unreleased Vol.2

*Disc 1*

We Are Back!

Tommy Dreamer vs. Tazmaniac
Hardcore TV • October 19, 1993

Terry Funk & Arn Anderson vs. Sabu & Bobby Eaton
When Worlds Collide • May 14, 1994

Hardcore Legends

Cactus Jack vs. Terry Funk
Hardcore Heaven • August 13, 1994

“I Quit” Match
Tommy Dreamer vs. The Sandman
Hardcore TV • October 4, 1994

Wrestling Machines

Eddie Guerrero & The Steiner Brothers vs. 2 Cold Scorpio, Dean Malenko & Cactus Jack
Wrestlepalooza • August 5, 1995

Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer
Holiday Hell • December 29, 1995

The Public Enemy vs. The Gangstas
House Party • January 5, 1996

*Disc 2*

A Good Idea At The Time

Extreme Hardcore Shoot Fight
Chris Jericho vs. Taz
Lost Battalion Hall • April 13, 1996

ECW World Television Championship Match
2 Cold Scropio vs. Shane Douglas
A Matter of Respect • May 11, 1996

The Flagstaff

Sabu vs. Chris Jericho
Plymouth Meeting, PA • August 29, 1996

Dick Togo, Terry Boy & Taka Michinoku vs. Gran Hamada, Gran Naniwa & Great Sasuke
Hardcore TV • March 27, 1997

Tag Team Wrestling Done Right

Three Way Dance for ECW World Tag Team Championship Match
The Eliminators vs. The Gangstas vs. The Dudleys
The Buffalo Invasion • May 17, 1997

*Disc 3*

Real Heat

The Sandman, Taz, Tommy Dreamer & Al Snow vs. Sabu, Rob Van Dam, Doug Furnas & Philip LaFon
Hardcore TV • January 5, 1998

ECW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Shane Douglas vs. Al Snow
Wrestlepalooza • May 3, 1998

ECW World Tag Team Championship Match
Chris Candido & Lance Storm vs. Sabu & Rob Van Dam
Hardcore TV • June 29, 1998

A Real Clash of Styles

Three Way Dance for the FTW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Sabu vs. Taz vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
ECW Arena • August 8, 1998

ECW World Tag Team Championship Match
The Dudleys vs. Spike Dudley & Balls Mahoney
Hardcore TV • August 23, 1999

Stepping Up

ECW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Mike Awesome vs. Rhino
ECW on TNN • October 1, 1999

Extreme Three Way Dance
Yoshihiro Tajiri vs. Jerry Lynn vs. Super Crazy
November to Remember • November 7, 1999

The Ultimate Underdog

ECW World Television Championship Match
Rob Van Dam vs. Mikey Whipwreck
ECW on TNN • January 28, 2000

Three Way Dance for the ECW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Justin Credible vs. Jerry Lynn vs. Steve Corino
ECW on TNN • September 29, 2000

End of an Era

*Blu-ray Exclusive Matches*

911 vs. Doink the Clown
Hardcore TV • August 27, 1994

Steel Cage Match
The Sandman, 2 Cold Scorpio & New Jack vs. The Public Enemy & Mikey Whipwreck
Gangsta’s Paradise • September 16, 1995

Four Way Dance for the ECW World Heavyweight Championship
Terry Funk vs. Raven vs. Stevie Richards vs. The Sandman
The Buffalo Invasion • May 17, 1997

The Dudleys vs. The Public Enemy
Detroit, Michigan • January 23, 1999

Tommy Dreamer vs. Lance Storm
Hardcore Heaven • May 16, 1999

Japanese Death Match
Super Crazy vs. Yoshihiro Tajiri
Hardcore TV • February 11, 2000

Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-ecw-unreleased-vol-2-wwe-dvd/44805/


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> :lmao
> 
> This fucking company and their gross misuse of their best talents. If there's one thing in wrestling that pisses me off, it's how badly we were screwed out of so many potential match-ups involving Benoit.
> 
> ...


Injury was def legit lol. You dont sit out and miss valuable promotion time as well as having one of your very own directors blast you, tell you to grow up and stop wrestling because it affects your availability over a fake injury lol. He already said its over in a few interviews and I can see why. A whole lot at stake. I dont see that dude back wrestling again.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

So whats the review of that ecw unreleased 2 dvd . I thinking of getting it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

96powerstroker said:


> So whats the review of that ecw unreleased 2 dvd . I thinking of getting it


Its not out yet 

wrestlingdvdnews.com is your friend for info.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> Dick Togo, Terry Boy & Taka Michinoku vs. Gran Hamada, Gran Naniwa & Great Sasuke
> Hardcore TV • March 27, 1997


I remember watching this when it aired and just being blown away by it. If this were on ppv a lot of people would be talking about it. It happened ~3 weeks before Barely Legal. It's up there with their 6man at Barely Legal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bigbuxx your thoughts on ziggler/del rio if you saw it ?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

did not watch any of the ppv. not interested enough to watch even with a good review of it. however, before clicking here i just finished watching brock destroy punk last night on youtube. that was intense. a lot better than i thought it would be.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ziggler/ADR is my #2 WWE MOTY so far, just behind Punk/Undertaker

Also, does anyone have a list with ***+ matches just from this year? Surely we are around 80-100 at this point


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> Ziggler/ADR is my #2 WWE MOTY so far, just behind Punk/Undertaker
> 
> Also, does anyone have a list with ***+ matches just from this year? Surely we are around 80-100 at this point


- Taker/Punk
- Trips/Lesnar (both)
- Ziggler/ADR (all of them, even the MITB cash-in is worth it)
- Punk/Jericho Raw and Payback
- Kaitlyn/AJ
- Shield/Justice League
- Shield/Orton, Show and Sheamus
- Hell No/ZiggBig
- Rock/Punk II (have it at *** myself)
- Cena/Punk (arguably the best Raw match since Cena/HBK 2007, or maybe even before that)
- Shield/Dazzlers of Destruction
- Shield/Hell No (ER rematch)
- Shield/Hell BOOM
- Shield/Hell Cena (both of them, though the 1st one was better)
- Shield/Hell RK-NO (both of them)
- Shield/Ryberimus
- Bryan/Rollins
- Cesaro/Kofi ME
- Cesaro/Sheamus (All of them)
- Cesaro/Orton ME
- ADR/Swagger Smackdown
- Team Hell No/Car Stereo
- Regal/Ohno
- Cesaro/Neville
- Cesaro/Zyan
- Bryan/Jericho
- Bryan/Ziggler before WM
- Barrett/Miz/Jericho
- Barrett/Sheamus (one of them was pretty excellent this year)
- Barrett/Miz after WM
- Bryan/Ryback I
- Bryan/Ambrose
- Taker/Ambrose (really good for the 5 minutes it got)
- ADR/Show LMS
- Cena/Ziggler before the finishers
- Orton/Cody on Raw
- Cesaro/Cara (this last one, thought it worked just fine)
- Ambrose/Kane I
- Shield/RKNo 2-on-2 (both)
- Jericho/Wyatt
- Sheamus/Sandow Tables
- Sheamus/Ziggler ME

And many others.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched the Orton vs Punk Wrestlemania rematch from Raw in London (18/4/2011) and it's a solid match and as good as I remember it being. Almost up there with their WM match and slightly above ER. But why, oh why did Orton take out the Angle Slam from his moveset? Seems like he's stopped doing it for over a year now. Also haven't seen him do that Gutwrench Neckbreaker or the turnbuckle roll-up anymore.

★★★½



ATF said:


> - Rock/Punk II (have it at *** myself)


Wasn't it actually ****? :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> - Cena/Punk (*arguably the best Raw match since Cena/HBK 2007, or maybe even before that*)


Hmm. You may be right.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just re watched the Henry segment from raw last night. Incredible stuff really word cannot describe how good it is. Although I believed it was real for the most put I kinda it was a work because Vince usually sent the whole locker room out to applaud the superstar retiring. 

Nonetheless really looking forward to this feud, can be great if done right

Edit : so many ppl on this site have a sig of Henry from last night its funny


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

One problem that Henry has now is when he does indeed retire, nobody gonna believe him.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That segment was hilarious. Cena coming out doing his typical promo and Henry congratulating Cena and thanking the all crowd. Then bang! a strongest slam to Cena. It felt a little predictable when Cole said "that's the only belt Henry hasn't won" but still a hilarious segment.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I can actually see Henry retiring for real after this feud if its a lengthy one till summerslam and he holds the belt once. :lol :lol nobody will believe it either when he actually does


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I hope Henry holds the belt at least once but unfortunetly, it won't happen. Cena will probably be saved for another opponent at Summerslam and I can see him beating Henry in a retirement match.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Cover art for Legends of Mid-South Wrestling DVD/Blu-ray


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cool cover aesthetically, but it doesn't really "cover" the ground it should.



Smith_Jensen said:


> Match listings for ECW Unreleased Vol.2
> 
> ECW World Television Championship Match
> 2 Cold Scropio vs. Shane Douglas
> A Matter of Respect • May 11, 1996


Y'all should get it.

Mad lack of 2000 Tajiri on there, though. Dude was insane; top 3 wrestler in the world that year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If there is a story behind Punk/Brock, could it be that Heyman sent Brock after Punk, as he was irked the way Punk 'dropped' him?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Wasn't it actually ****? :lmao


Rewatching does magic :lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

zep81 said:


> If there is a story behind Punk/Brock, could it be that Heyman sent Brock after Punk, as he was irked the way Punk 'dropped' him?


That's what I was thinking, expecting Punk to assume that next Monday. If the Lesnar match is happening at Summerslam I could see Punk facing Axel at MITB as a stopgap. Or be in the MITB match itself.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Raw was fantastic from start to finish. Still in shock at the fact that they managed to produce three hours of quality TV with purpose & meaning behind practically every single segment. No idea where that came from but this is the show I want to watch every week, as it was perfectly lined. Haven't been this excited for wrestling in a long, long, long time. If WWE can keep this up, then I'm more than sure we're in for one helluva Summer.

Christian returned. Sheamus got pinned for the first time this year. The Wyatt Family debuting and RVD returning. Bryan vs. Orton being a great TV match up until it stopped. Shield looked strong against Kane. Cesaro getting managed by Coulter and actually having something to do. The Divas Division improving. Triple H and the McMahons really adding something to the product. Axel making the Intercontinental Championship look good. The double turn between Ziggler and Del Rio still remaining a thing of beauty.

Witnessed the greatest swerve in the history of history. Everybody in the arena and everybody watching at home (myself included) totally bought Henry's retirement with that incredible Oscar caliber performance. Marked out like an idiot when he hit The World's Strongest Slam on Cena, I didn't see that coming at all. Best segment of the year? Can't think of anything that has even come remotely close to topping this, so most definitely yes. Completely fine with this feud taking place as it has all of my interest.

Loved the unbelievable Punk and Lesnar confrontation just as much as anyone else, if not more. Words cannot describe how I felt when that music hit, as my ultimate dream match had officially become reality. The crazy atmosphere, the "holy sh*t" look on Punk's face, the epic face-to-face staredown, and then the amazing F5, not to mention the smile on Lesnar's face right after that. Looking forward to this feud for the many reasons. WOLVERINE vs. HULK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tajiri vs Super Crazy is a blu-ray only extra? Meanwhile I have to stomach two New Jack matches on the set.

That's awful.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I have the ability to watch In Your House 1-24. Any particular awesome event I should watch?


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> I have the ability to watch In Your House 1-24. Any particular awesome event I should watch?


In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede is the best In Your House PPV in my opinion. Every match was good to great. Mankind vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley, The Great Sasuke vs. Taka Michinoku, Undertaker vs. Vader and The Hart Foundation vs. Team USA are all enjoyable.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sasuke vs. TAKA :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Dark Church said:


> I have the ability to watch In Your House 1-24. Any particular awesome event I should watch?


Bret Hart vs. Hakushi from In Your House 1
Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett from In Your House 2
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog from In Your House 5
Hart Foundation vs. Team Austin In Your House 16

Those are some of the best In Your House matches, that I can think of off the top of my head.

Also, Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel at In Your House 7. I remember quite liking that one, though I haven't seen that one since I was a kid.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Cover art for Legends of Mid-South Wrestling DVD/Blu-ray


can't wait for this! i've never seen any Mid-South.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This should turn into a Taka appreciation thread now.






Quite a bit of Christian fans around here too. Fitting start.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> This should turn into a Taka appreciation thread now.


Okay






One of the best underdog matches ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If only Taka won. Would have made my childhood.


----------



## Amazing_Cult (Apr 26, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Cover art for Legends of Mid-South Wrestling DVD/Blu-ray


Junkyard Dog's afro and beard is so well groomed. :langston


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Tajiri vs Super Crazy is a blu-ray only extra? Meanwhile I have to stomach two New Jack matches on the set.
> 
> That's awful.


Yeah but New Jack falls off of scaffolds, so >>>>


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> This should turn into a Taka appreciation thread now.


I have never seen a better idea in my life.



I might start watching la Parka stuff today. I'm not totally finished with Goldberg, but I want to change it up.


New Jack can be hidden in a big spotfest brawl tag. You get a sense that he's a reckless idiot who'll do anything because of his lack of compassion and he has this aura of violence about him (because that's pretty much all true IRL). I've seen more than one New Jack brawl tag where he added instead of subtracted. He's a genuinely awesome promo, fwiw. Like, if he was cutting his 1996 promos today he'd be the best promo in the world, unless Punk starts 2011ing.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I have never seen a better idea in my life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In my opinion, New Jack's best promo work was in Smoky Mountain Wrestling. He and Mustafa had good feuds with the Rock N Roll Express and the Heavenly Bodies.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've heard that, and only seen a couple of things from there. I mean I thought he was spectacular in 96 ECW, but to say that might not even be his best promo period is like....wow. I'll make sure to get on that one day.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

got about 6 matches left in my top 15 ppv matches of 2012 list to, some surprises


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah but New Jack falls off of scaffolds, so >>>>


If I thought that I'd kill myself. Wait, I'll just kill New Jack. He's familiar with that sort of shit.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Cover art for Legends of Mid-South Wrestling DVD/Blu-ray


Nice Cover. I really miss JYD too. Such a fun personality.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What are you guys watching tonight??


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A question which plagues me every night. I'll probably cram in last week's Superstars and work on finishing up various Indie stuff from 2013. Been on a random TNA match binge too. So naturally, a little bit of everything. 

I just thought of something awesome. I should watch a match from each and every promotion I can find tonight or whenever. Now that'll be really swell.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

doing my 2012 project watched punk/bryan mitb which was stellar and underrated, fatal 4 way at otl ,and finishing up punk/kane/bryan from nwo. That is alot of wrestling for my standards and I plan on getting another match in b4 bed. Probably sd mitb


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tensai chucking Dolph into the chair = greatest moment of 2012 never spoken about.

It's so AWESOME.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha I remember that, dolph looked a rag doll

Seriously though, punk/bryan mitb is criminally underrated and their otl match gets all the shine. I remember you had it above otl Cody ? or maybe it was someone else


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do prefer MITB than OTL, yeah. Watched the No DQ match about six more times over OTL which is the universal sign to me where I have a slight preference towards it. AJ involvement doesn't take away too much and storyline withstanding it wasn't as if her interaction was completely out of left field. I had no gripes.

Wanting to watch both now. Specifically OTL considering I can't remember the last time I watched it. Watched MITB not too long ago.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Been working nonstop overtime at work all week and I'm way behind. Can someone catch me up on a few things?

How was Payback? Better than Exteme Rules? Throw me some ratings or link me to your reviews? Should I watch the whole thing or just catch Ziggler/Del Rio & Punk/Jericho? Heard Ziggler & Berto pulled a double turn. What happened with Orton & Bryan?

Anything to check out from the past week of RAW & Smackdown? Shield's first loss has to be good right? Anything on RAW?

Why is Cena facing Henry & did he retire/retiring?

The fuck happened with Lesnar & Punk? Did Punk do somethin to Heyman?

Does someone have a fucking link to watch Cesaro/Generico from NXT where the video DOESN'T skip? Rep me/link me/pm me the video please.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Been working nonstop overtime at work all week and I'm way behind. Can someone catch me up on a few things?
> 
> How was Payback? Better than Exteme Rules? Throw me some ratings or link me to your reviews? Should I watch the whole thing or just catch Ziggler/Del Rio & Punk/Jericho? Heard Ziggler & Berto pulled a double turn. What happened with Orton & Bryan?
> 
> ...


Payback was solid (although I thought Jericho/Punk sucked) and Raw was awesome. CATCH THEM!

And I wont say anything about Henry. Go and search for the segment and you'll enjoy the fuck out of it! Will be much better that way.

Gotta go to bed so I can't put any links right now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Been working nonstop overtime at work all week and I'm way behind. Can someone catch me up on a few things?
> 
> How was Payback? Better than Exteme Rules? Throw me some ratings or link me to your reviews? Should I watch the whole thing or just catch Ziggler/Del Rio & Punk/Jericho? Heard Ziggler & Berto pulled a double turn. What happened with Orton & Bryan?


Oh absolutely it was better.

IC Title- ***
Kaitlyn/AJ- ***1/2
Kane/Ambrose- **
Ziggler/Del Rio- ****
Punk/Jericho- ***3/4
Shield/RK-NO- ***1/2
Cena/Ryback- **





> Anything to check out from the past week of RAW & Smackdown? Shield's first loss has to be good right? Anything on RAW?


Shield's first loss match was good. Raw was amazing, best Raw in years imo except MAYBE Raw 1000.




> Why is Cena facing Henry & did he retire/retiring?





Spoiler: HENRY



Basically Henry was all "I'm retirin'" and gave an amazing performance, talking about his family and how he held multiple championships. Cena let Henry hold up the WWE Title and Henry reeled us in even more by giving it back to John and telling us he never earned it. Then after he's done talking, tears in his eyes and all, Cena comes in, raises his hand, gives him a hug, and BOOM, HENRY WSS' CENA! It was a thing of beauty.






> The fuck happened with Lesnar & Punk? Did Punk do somethin to Heyman?





Spoiler: PUNK



Punk was all "gimme space" and Heyman was all "okay" but secretly Heyman was probably like "fuck you" and out comes Lesnar after Punk's match on Raw and they have an epic staredown followed by an epic F-5 to Punk.





> Does someone have a fucking link to watch Cesaro/Generico from NXT where the video DOESN'T skip? Rep me/link me/pm me the video please.


Nope.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Been working nonstop overtime at work all week and I'm way behind. Can someone catch me up on a few things?
> 
> How was Payback? Better than Exteme Rules? Throw me some ratings or link me to your reviews? Should I watch the whole thing or just catch Ziggler/Del Rio & Punk/Jericho? Heard Ziggler & Berto pulled a double turn. What happened with Orton & Bryan?
> 
> ...


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/19765801-post16602.html

^ Payback review.

Watch last smackdown for the Shield six man and Sheamus vs Cesaro. The latter being a hair better, imo. Both were ****1/2*.

Henry did a phenomenal job at faking his retirement speech. Crying, thanking fans, the whole nine yards. Until Cena hugged him Mark turned and gave him a World's Strongest Slam. It was arguably the best segment seen in idk how long. Including anything Punk has done over recent years and we all know those are like the tops.

Punk told Heyman he doesn't want him to accompany him ringside anymore. Paul seemed gobsmacked by it. After Punk defeated Del Rio via countout he was in the ring celebrating until Brock's music hits. World stands still. Brock has a mic, appears to speak, only to strike fast and hit Punker with the F-5. Commence marking out.

Nothing happened with Danielson & Orton. They had a boring match on RAW which saw Danielson "injured". Apparently Danielson vs Ambrose is signed for Smackdown with the up in the air notion if he'll be healthy to compete. 

Ziggler & Del Rio double turned. I should probably have posted my second watch of that match to explain it better as I'm feeling lazy in re-typing it. All that needs to be said is Del Rio was a fiece jerk who shocked everyone by going mega rudo against Dolph in his quest to win back the championship. A post match promo at Payback & a great promo to start RAW have only confirmed it. Dolph jumped Del Rio after his match on RAW and it was fantastic. Crowd ate it up and it's def going places in its infancy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks fellas.

Well, looks like I'm watchin all of Payback then. I HAVE to see how bad Cena/Ryback turned out and the rest of the card looks solid enough for me. Have to catch all of RAW if Henry's segment was that good too. Anyone thinkin he takes the belt?

Did see Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event, quality match. High end *** 1/2.

Shame to see Bryan fall out of the spotlight and NOT be the highlight of RAW anymore... Guess that's what happens when you work a program with Orton. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

was wondering where you been Corey, yea Im jumping o nthat job flow soon as well. Agree with everthing everyone said, the shield match from smackdown, payback especially ziggler/del rio :mark: MOTY for me so far and check out the latest raw


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Not sure Henry really has a chance unfortunately, gotta be D Bry and Cena.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> was wondering where you been Corey, yea Im jumping o nthat job flow soon as well. Agree with everthing everyone said, the shield match from smackdown, payback especially ziggler/del rio :mark: MOTY for me so far and check out the latest raw


Fuckin 57.5 hours in 5 days, been kickin my ass. Shitty thing is, I've got two more days to go.  Moving & expanding our shoe store to the opposite side of the mall.

------------

Wait, RVD's comin back? That's pretty cool. haha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry to win and have a brief go as champ. That's all I ask.

Cena vs Ryback wasn't exactly god awful either, Corey. It was just...bleh. About as uneventful and mediocre as it sounded thanks to the stip. 100% exactly how any fan could have imagined it. Payback was solid all around with the lone disappointment which was Punk vs Jericho being a pile of nothing. Reaction is all I cared for. There was that in spades.

I expect you glanced at my review so meh. I'm saying all of this over again. :hayley2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ah fuck working at the mall I work at drug fair (drug store for non-americans)

cena/ryback was ok **, I literally had the lowest expectations for it so it helpped


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/19765801-post16602.html
> 
> ^ Payback review.
> 
> ...


Bryan and Orton wasn't boring. It was a good match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Subjectivity wins this round again.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> Nah. Subjectivity wins this round again.


Nah I'm right  To say it was boring you seriously need you're head checked. It was a good match cut short cause Bryan got injured.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah got to agree with Corey on this one, best raw of the year but all the matches were bad, I was getting into kane/ambrose but the shield came in and ended the match

Edit: IDK if this was a joking back in forth but you two


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good grief. It's like a plague now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In all fairness, everything Orton has touched since 2010 save for a handful of matches has turned into complete shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think his gritty defense was more thanks to Danielson being in the mix than that other guy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Meh, think you could pair Bryan up with 90 percent of the roster and it'd work better than he'd work with Orton at this stage in Orton's career.

AVOIDING ORTON DISCUSSION.

Underrated tandems w/ fantastic chemistry as opponents in WWE history? Henry-Mysterio has to be at the top.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heck you can throw Mark Henry + anyone in the mix and it'll count. Namely Matt Hardy & Finlay.

Legit the first two which popped up. Drew McIntyre is almost the same as Henry. Most of his matches that he got to thrive in - no matter the length - worked very well. As for naming another duo which worked well together but isn't mentioned all the time: Sheamus vs John Morrison. Outside of the tremendous ladder match all of their matches were very good. Love the work done at Survivor Series 2010.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Goldberg and DDP/Jericho. Every time they had a match together, it was very entertaining and well-worked.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Watching Raw now and I agree with Cody, Bryan/Orton was pretty boring. They played up No DQ being in Orton's favour yet he somehow thought it was a good idea to try to wrestle Bryan at the beginning. Bizarre. The stuff post-dive was OK, but Orton came off like a heel capitalizing on an injury and then helped Bryan get up later. Bizarre again. Wasn't terribly fun to watch altogether. You have to hope Bryan's injury is a work. If not then it comes at the worst fucking possible time. Seems like a work all things considered, but there's a huge amount of paranoia in me. 

Cesaro v. Regal was really enjoyable for two minutes and fuck me Cesaro looks like the best wrestler in the company even with those limitations. Squashing Regal like that is pretty cruel, but yeah, I liked the match a fair bit. I just wish Cesaro's heat hadn't been watered down recently. Taking the US title off of him really hurt. I hope with this Mantel allegiance Cesaro at the very least gets a chance at decently lengthy matches. Even on NXT. Or, fuck, even with bad opponents. Dude worked with Miz, Orton, Khali, Ryback and Kofi and had good stuff with all of them. HELL, the Kofi match is probably the best or second best WWE match I've seen all year (not been paying attention, admittedly, but shit...it was an *amazing* carry job by Claudio). 

I made a list of who I thought my top 10 favourite wrestlers of all time would be, and I said Mark Henry would probably be #12. Pre'sure he's #1 after that segment.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Underrated tandems w/ fantastic chemistry as opponents in WWE history? Henry-Mysterio has to be at the top.


Booker T/Goldust v. Christian/Jericho


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I made a list of who I thought my top 10 favourite wrestlers of all time would be, and I said Mark Henry would probably be #12. Pre'sure he's #1 after that segment.


Let's take a look at said list, shall we?

:henry1


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> 1. Hashimoto
> 2. Vader
> 3. Kawada
> 4. Guerrero
> ...


QUOTE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I didn't even notice Misawa made your list when I saw it the first time. Can't recall you posting much about him, then again, I probably haven't been looking.

Taka is still


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not going to lie; I'd adore reading a top 10 LEAST favorites ever :lol.

Assuming Konnan is numero uno.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kinda agree that TAKA over names like Flair, Santo, Austin, Terry Funk and Volk "God" Han is a little wary worthy, but opinions are opinions 

I think imma do a little SummerSlam project since we're entering that season. Overrated/Underrated matches precisely.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Least favorites is almost a lock. Konnan, AR Fox, Kofi Kingston, New Jack, Matt Morgan, Ken Anderson and then some others I can think of once they pop up. Jeff Jarrett in 1997 can count, right?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> I didn't even notice Misawa made your list when I saw it the first time. Can't recall you posting much about him, then again, I probably haven't been looking.
> 
> Taka is still


Misawa was my #1 for a long time. I could watch a random Misawa match and say he's #1 at any given moment. I actually feel bad for having him at #5. 

TAKA is the sex.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Not going to lie; I'd adore reading a top 10 LEAST favorites ever :lol.
> 
> Assuming Konnan is numero uno.


Konnan blows, but IDK if he'd actually make the top ten. I think he's more 'top ten WORST' than 'top ten least favourite'. He doesn't legitimately piss me off the way someone like Chuck Taylor does (who would be number one so easily that I would have no clue how to fill the rest of the list and just have ten Chucks Taylors there. Oh God....did I just say ten Chuck Taylors? Can you imagine TEN of that guy existing? I would kill myself). 

Sorry Cody. 

I'm actually struggling to think of ten wrestlers I actually dislike that much. I won't lie - I cannot stand a LOT of wrestlers. But IDK how many I could come up with if I made a list of least favourites. Davey Richards would have to be there, I think. AMERICAN STRONG STYLE. Oh fuck, Marufuji would likely be there too. CODY EDIT: Crap, Kennedy/Anderson. That's a good one. Could make my bottom 5. I fucking hate that guy.



ATF said:


> Kinda agree that TAKA over names like Flair, Santo, Austin, Terry Funk and Volk "God" Han is a little wary worthy, but opinions are opinions


This is 'favourite', so I don't take any kind of 'best' into account.  All of those guys are clearly BETTER than TAKA, but I don't like them as much.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I know Yeah loves Austin as a worker, wonder where he'd rank among the list?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Misawa was my #1 for a long time. I could watch a random Misawa match and say he's #1 at any given moment. I actually feel bad for having him at #5.
> 
> TAKA is the sex.
> 
> ...


Misawa is cool beans. I've never been as "omg" for him like how a lot of others are. Plenty great, however when it always came to that "who do you like more?" comparison between Misawa and "x" I generally picked whichever wrestler was pitted against him. You know Kawada, Kobashi, Muta, etc.

It's not the loathing of Chuck Taylor that gets me, its how Konnan could escape top ten that truly gets me. Impossible, I say. :side:

Oh lordy lordy how in the hell could I forget Davey Richards. Yep. Easy pick to make the cut. Hard to believe my first PWG show in 2006 I got a picture with him and was the happiest guy ever. Things have changed.

Ken Anderson. Yep. Glad to refresh your memory with him.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> I know Yeah loves Austin as a worker, wonder where he'd rank among the list?


Could be a top 20 favourite. He'd definitely be a top 20 US favourite. Other than the guys I listed I think I like Arn Anderson and mayyyybe Savage more and that's pretty much it. Flair is close, but I like Austin's character more (though Flair is obv 'better'). Rey is also close (again, Rey is obv 'better'), but I prefer the guy working from the top over the guy working from the bottom, and I looooove Austin working on top as a deranged psycho. If Austin spent his whole career as deranged psycho he might be my #1 favourite and I'm not positive I'm kidding.



Cody we have not spent enough time hating on Kennedy/Anderson. WE HAVE MORE THINGS TO TALK ABOUT! Later, anyway. I gotta go soon. But we shall shit on the shit that is Ken Whatever many times over in the future.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Muta over Misawa?


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

Out of all the wrestlers on the planet, to find Davey Richards in a 10 worst wrestlers list is quite beyond asinine. I can understand not being into his style, but that's quite a stretch... there are MUCH worse out there. Same with Marufuji and Taylor, really...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cody we have not spent enough time hating on Kennedy/Anderson. WE HAVE MORE THINGS TO TALK ABOUT! Later, anyway. I gotta go soon. But we shall shit on the shit that is Ken Whatever many times over in the future.


We should start come Thursday. After Impact ends I'm usually annoyed beyond belief by the idiot and I'd like to blow some steam off. We can join in together.

I've also come to the conclusion that Cesaro to me is what Henry is to you. Meaning that guy I didn't want to leave off my favorites list, but was perfectly logical in doing so. He's right on the cusp. That's for sure a lock. Along with all of the other people I mentioned before being close too..._(and Big Show. b/c I hate the fact that I didn't even give him a plug.)_



Silverthorn said:


> Muta over Misawa?


Quite easily.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

NO! said:


> Out of all the wrestlers on the planet, to find Davey Richards in a 10 worst wrestlers list is quite beyond asinine. I can understand not being into his style, but that's quite a stretch... there are MUCH worse out there. Same with Marufuji and Taylor, really...


Least favourite doesn't mean worse, the same way favourite doesn't mean best. Hell, I even said in the same paragraph that Konnan would be a 'worst' not a 'least favourite. It isn't hard to grasp. 


But they are really awful. Directionless, shitty selling (often complete lack of selling), embarrassing facials and stances, spamming finishers, too many 2.9999 kick outs, etc. In Marufuji's case his offense is sometimes so bad that his opponent actually doesn't know he's supposed to sell anything (and the no-selly directionless stuff). Chuck Taylor is just everything I hate about that style of comedy wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Davey Richards wouldn't be in a top ten worst wrestlers list. He'd be in a top five. Top ten would be asinine, I agree.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, TAKA is quite underrated, though. Played an excellent babyface from what I've seen before.

Top 10 least favourites? Konnan, New Jack, KroniK, Nathan Jones, Davey Richards, Teddy Hart, Shane Sewell (that TNA ref turned wrestler), Naobitchi Marufuji and Rick Wilson/Renegade.

Speaking of that, I wonder what a top 10 most underrated list would look like...


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Dolph-Del Rio was clearly MOTN of Payback. Anyone who says otherwise is a wrong, dead straight wrong. Hell, I don't even like Ziggler and I loathe Alberto, but hatred didn't blind me to the amazing working progression and incredible story told. *****1/2* (My current MOTY)


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Oh, and both Del and Dolph's best match ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Underrated from a personal standpoint would take a bit of time for me to think about. Off the top of my head names like Drew McIntyre, Chris Masters, & Gregory Helms are popping up just from a mainstream perspective. If I dipped into Indies, Japan/Internationally then oh boy.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Goldust would be on top of my list, as most underrated. Tremendous talent, surpasses both his father and brother.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Cody, I don't know if you read the Smackdown spoilers, BUT MCINTYRE IS UP AGAINST SOMEONE GOOD :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No way. Well shoot. I won't try and get TOO excited, but I guess the thought of possibly having a three minute match vs someone good is worth looking forward to.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Raja Lion is most certainly being over-looked in that Top 5 "worst of all times" list, Obfuscation.

So, too, are Groond XXX, Khali, Gronda XXX, Giant Gonzalez, Jack Evans (fuck you, he's terrible), _Mong_o, VK Grimes, Chaos, wait, actually just everyone who ever wrestled for High Impact Wrestling. I have a review of their show here. I can't quite imagine anything more painful to sit through than that. A run-in was made to attack Chaos. Both Chaos and the referee had to steady the ladder so Mr Random could execute his move. _That's how terrible it was_.

Yeah, you guys with your Davey Richards and Chuck Taylors don't know how bad some of us have had it. Be glad.



Tanner1495 said:


> Cody, I don't know if you read the Smackdown spoilers, BUT MCINTYRE IS UP AGAINST SOMEONE GOOD :mark:


Was it a 3MB-esque squash or did his one Tweet show some promise to breaking out, again? Sigh. He needs it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not my fault I didn't watch that crap. :hayley3

but I do watch ROH frequently. That's where the end result comes in. You saw Davey vs O'Reilly. You know.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I supposed from the start that guys like Khali and El Gigante/Giant Gonzales didn't count in these lists since they are massive and they at least TRY for guys of their size. The Taker/Gonzales WM 9 match isn't as bad as everyone else made them up, since at least it tried to tell a story. And so did a minor part of Khali matches (the JD 2007 match vs Cena, the LMS match vs Taker and the Punjabi Prison match vs Batista precisely). Plus, Davey Richards matches are like watching a constant punch to suspension of disbelief over and over and over again. ESPECIALLY the Eddie Edwards match Meltzer gave *****. That match is Angle/Benoit RR 2003, only without the 35-40% of alright stuff and ALL of it being a retarded spotfest.

Though I cannot believe I forgot about HIW guys. I've seen that Mr Random/Chaos Ladder match - it makes Punk/Rock RR look like Angle/Taker. It's Wrestlecrap at its absolute finest. Oh, and I also forgot about David Otunga (in my least favourite list). Dude had potential, mic skills and charisma but in the ring he's WORTHLESS.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio (WWE Payback 2013) - WHC Match*










This match told an incredible story, while still being quite constant within the technical zone. The amazing double turn, was a thing of Austin-Bret. Ziggler began the match in heel form, many times of chickening out and escaping the ring were prevalent, when the early segments didn't go The Showoff's way. Later on though, a majestical transformation occurred, reverting each wrestler into opposing character statuses. Good into Evil & Evil into Good. 

The initiation was in regular fashion, with both athletes trading irish whips and basic submission holds in light, back and fourth action. The changing of pace began with Alberto delivering a huge blow to Ziggler, and from then on, this regular forwarding turned into a masterpiece-esquie progression. Alberto decimated Ziggler with various offensive inflicts, with The Showoff only firing back with a few BASIC attacks. The viciousness Alberto expressed within the minutes of this match, turned his good guy persona into a savage demon, he directed his actions of conflict to Ziggler's head, and solely at that. Many spots included the bashing of it, taking in the concussion which Ziggler had suffered, a month earlier. It reached a pinnacle, when Langston, rather acting with heel antics, tried protecting his friend, and eventually got sent backstage, with loud boos to this call, stretching all across the arena. 

I can't grasp enough stomach to say this, but Ziggler's selling was actually top notch, it was so good, that the crowd became sympathetic for him, even I did, not that because I hate the very ground Alberto walks on, but because of the self proclaimed pain Ziggler was in. The audience was definitely in a spilt with what was kayfabe and acted upon, and what was real in a sense. Alberto's facial showings were also a key factor in telling the story. In courageous fashion, Ziggler diminished assistance from the doc and his own girlfriend, with occupence of expressing his role to a perfect peak and the audience's encouragement and wanting of a Ziggler victory. Every shred of reach to triumph by The Showoff, felt extremely important to the progression of the story. Alberto's transformation was aided by his actings of laughing and insulting Ziggler's struggle. The ending came with a Superkick to Ziggler's face and Alberto claimed the win and the WHC, it was executed greatly and fitted the context of the story. 
.
It's unique to see such a simple story, worked in extraordinary fashion, thus escalating that simple state to an incredible state. I didn't have high expectations for this match, however the first has only left me wanting more, the feud itself is watchable, so it's not as sufferable as others, but the matches are the true positives and make the whole program, worth it and the wait.

*****1/2 (My current MOTY)*​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Speaking of that, I wonder what a top 10 most underrated list would look like...


Koko Ware because people are all 'oh he shouldn't be in HOF' or he stinks or whatEVAH. He was a genuinely outstanding wrestler. Great at everything. Everything.

YOKOZUNA too.



Who's McIntyre's opponent? Use spoiler tags if Cody doesn't want to read it and stuff.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

[spoiler="Cody" will mark for this]Christian[/spoiler]


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OH MY GOD THAT DIDN'T DISAPPOINT :mark: :mark: :mark:

Spoiler for Cody - it isn't Konnan.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hint for Cody - Drew's opponent in arguably the TV MOTY last year.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

ATF said:


> Hint for Cody - Drew's opponent in arguably the TV MOTY last year.


Well if it isn't Henry or Punk it wasn't TV MOTY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know if Henry's speech is up on YT? Had a look yesterday but got stung by peoples' fucking 'reviews' and video game bollocks.

Just wanna link a mate to it.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Have to see this Henry segment. How was Bryan/Orton? Heard something weird happened at the finish?


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)




----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Well if it isn't Henry or Punk it wasn't TV MOTY.


Well, at least one of the best TV matches last year


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks Ever Wolf, owe ya some rep


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Was on another website and this is a rumored future plan for Ziggler backstage. Stupid doesn't do it justice


Spoiler: a spoiler



ziggler's injury is 100% kaybabe, they are turning him baby-face based on reaction Sunday, he will win the sd mitb and cash in on ADR in summerslam


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched this a million times lol. Hope creative havnt blown their load with this already, id
be very interested to hear Heyman's involvment in sending Brock out on Monday to attack Punk,
cant wait 'till next Monday now, also didnt think Brock would be turning up just yet, as there is what, 7 weeks to Summerslam, fucking LOVE IT


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Have to see this Henry segment. How was Bryan/Orton? Heard something weird happened at the finish?


Match was going pretty good (shocking) until Bryan missed a suicide dive as Orton ducked out of the way. Bryan crashed pretty hard into the barricade, but continued the match selling his shoulder like it was dislocated/lacked feeling. I thought it was just an awesome sell-job (still might be), but then things got weird as the ringside doctor came into the mix, and Bryan pushed him away. Then, Orton (like a prick) did a back suplex on the barricade and the ref called the match off. Bryan was visibly furious, then Orton (after the dastardly deed) came out of the ring to hug Bryan and walk him to the back. Was truly odd.

Then there were reports of Bryan storming backstage and getting in HHH's face telling him he's wrestled through injuries for 13 years and to never stop a match of his. He claimed that was supposed to be his big win against Orton to propel him into a summer push. This kinda adds up (despite it being on wwe.com), since the advertised Bryan/Ambrose match on SD this week turned into a Bryan/Orton rematch. Not sure what to make of it all.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Did you watch Zigs/Del Rio, Lady Killer?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Silverthorn said:


> Did you watch Zigs/Del Rio, Lady Killer?


Not yet. Is there a high quality version posted anywhere (youtube or DM)?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Not yet. Is there a high quality version posted anywhere (youtube or DM)?


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...-rio-payback_sport?search_algo=2#.UcHZTvmsh8E


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still can't get over how great RAW was; I've watched the Henry segment on top of the Punk-Brock showdown about a million times by now. I don't understand if it's a new writer or if this was the plan all along, but to have a three hour program go that well and actually maintain it's entertainment value throughout the entire duration makes me very optimistic about the future.

Mark Henry Vs Kane Vs Big Show from Night of Champions 2010 is DAMN.... Fucking GREAT. Three big monsters clubbing the shit out of one another for 8 minutes with a really satisfying finish = Evan's kind of triple threat.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I still can't get over how great RAW was; I've watched the Henry segment on top of the Punk-Brock showdown about a million times by now. I don't understand if it's a new writer or if this was the plan all along, but to have a three hour program go that well and actually maintain it's entertainment value throughout the entire duration makes me very optimistic about the future.
> 
> *Mark Henry Vs Kane Vs Big Show from Night of Champions 2010 is DAMN.... Fucking GREAT. Three big monsters clubbing the shit out of one another for 8 minutes with a really satisfying finish = Evan's kind of triple threat.*


YES. NoC 2008 actually, but fuck YES I agree with that.

Hell, everything in that show was at least solid - even Matt/Chavo had some good storytelling. And all three main title matches (yes, including ECW) were AWESOME.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I just watched The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match) for the WWE Undisputed Championship.

8/10 - Really great match. Jeff played the underdog very well in the match, also some really good spots. Loved the chair shots where Taker was going for the Last Ride onto the chair and Jeff caught it & hit em with it. The crowd was so behind Jeff in the match, too. & JR really put over this match. I'll never forget that soundbyte "CLIMB THE LADDER, KID! MAKE YOURSELF FAMOUS!" Goosebumps. He was so close to the ladder, too. & The ending of it was awesome where Jeff went on the mic after getting the last ride and said "You didn't break me, I'm still standing", and then taker when in the ring and raised his hand. That was great. Definitely one of my favorite singles ladder matches. Oh and Lawler was funny in the match. :lol


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...-rio-payback_sport?search_algo=2#.UcHZTvmsh8E


:hb


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Was on another website and this is a rumored future plan for Ziggler backstage. Stupid doesn't do it justice
> 
> 
> Spoiler: a spoiler
> ...


They cannot be that fucking stupid. Even for WWE, fucking up a storyline like this is a feat.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:HHH2 :hbk2 :vince5 :shane


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm sitting here trying to break down aspects of Henry's in-ring game that makes him such a great worker, and it came to me that he is probably the best the company has in terms of pure body language going along with actual verbal storytelling in trying to create a story. For an example of this, look to the lumberjack match against Christian, Henry gets hit out of the ring and stares down all of the Lumberjacks and is all "C'MON!" but nobody will touch him, he just has you sold on the idea that he will rip your fucking spine out if you go near him. Alot of these matches while he's in a control segment he'll stomp on somebody's face or do another really heelish move while screaming shit like "I OWN YOU!" that really add to his overall BEAST nature.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Watched this a million times lol. Hope creative havnt blown their load with this already, id
> be very interested to hear Heyman's involvment in sending Brock out on Monday to attack Punk,
> cant wait 'till next Monday now, also didnt think Brock would be turning up just yet, as there is what, 7 weeks to Summerslam, fucking LOVE IT


That Brock smile and laugh is just GOAT. :brock

I'm really interested to see if they put in Game/Bryan interactions on TV, especially after Bryan "complained" to him after Raw and they had this big ol' report on WWE.com. Think it'd be kind of cool.

And, as long as we're talking DX impersonations, I think this one takes the cake.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Eulonzo said:


> :HHH2 :hbk2 :vince5 :shane


This is one of my favorite promos. Perfection.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bah, that's nothing compared to this:


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Chris Benoit War Games DVD/Blu-ray edit news



> As you’ve heard, a match featuring Chris Benoit is included in the WCW War Games DVD. That match is the nWo vs. Four Horsemen bout from 1997. The contest is shown in full but there are some noticeable edits. In the same vein as the Elimination Chamber Anthology DVD, certain commentary audio about Benoit is muted during the match.
> 
> Another edit that perhaps is also related to Chris Benoit is the removal of the Four Horsemen coming to the ring to make their entrance. Michael Buffer was doing the ring introductions that night so this could also be a factor, albeit less likely.


Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/extras-wwe-payback-2013-dvd-blu-ray/44929/



Other War Games DVD/Blu-ray edits


> Unfortunately WWE has removed Jesse Ventura’s commentary from the 1992 & 1993 matches.


Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/new-details-wwe-war-games-wcw-dvd/44700/


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

After re-watching Ziggler/Del Rio earlier today, I have it at *****1/4* and my current #2 MOTY behind Punk/Taker, but only just. Superb match.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Chris Benoit War Games DVD/Blu-ray edit news
> 
> 
> 
> Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/extras-wwe-payback-2013-dvd-blu-ray/44929/


Shocker. :no:


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I think you all are forgetting the original http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...-retirement-nitro-12-27-1999-full-segment_fun


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Chris Benoit War Games DVD/Blu-ray edit news
> 
> Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/extras-wwe-payback-2013-dvd-blu-ray/44929/


What a surprise...

When will they finally get over this and realize that nothing is gonna happen if they leave some unedited audio from 15 years ago that mentions Benoit positively? And then they have recently got their hard-on for New Jack who they've mentioned a few times in WWE.com articles and he's also featured in two DVDs now. Also everything about him suggests he's also a complete scumbag and unlike Benoit, he doesn't really have anything to his "legacy" that makes him worth exploring or promoting.

And what exactly is the Michael Buffer thing about? Why would they cut his part off?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Catching up on some Main Event that I've skipped on for months. My goodness Sheamus is a beast.

Sheamus vs. Cesaro 6/5/13 ****1/2*
Sheamus vs. Barrett 5/29/13 ****3/4*
Kingston vs. Cesaro 5/1/13 ****3/4*
Ziggler vs. Del Rio 2/13/13 ****3/4*
Rhodes vs. Sheamus 2/6/13 ****1/4*
Sheamus vs. Ziggler 1/9/13 ****3/4*

Has there ever been a supplemental show as good as Main Event?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funny is Ive never seen a episode of main event but ive seen most of those matches.Both ziggler matches are ****1/4 for me,
cesaro/kofi ***1/2, need to see the others, their was a orton/cesaro that was **1/2

Gotta a question for everyone, is their a difference between being a good in-ring wrestler and a good worker ? Big show and john cena are the two names that come to mind


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> What a surprise...
> 
> When will they finally get over this and realize that nothing is gonna happen if they leave some unedited audio from 15 years ago that mentions Benoit positively? And then they have recently got their hard-on for New Jack who they've mentioned a few times in WWE.com articles and he's also featured in two DVDs now. Also everything about him suggests he's also a complete scumbag and unlike Benoit, he doesn't really have anything to his "legacy" that makes him worth exploring or promoting.
> 
> *And what exactly is the Michael Buffer thing about? Why would they cut his part off?*


Michael Buffer charges huge amounts of money for his voice to be used and his catchphrase "Let's get ready to rumble" is trademarked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Catching up on some Main Event that I've skipped on for months. My goodness Sheamus is a beast.
> 
> Sheamus vs. Cesaro 6/5/13 ****1/2*
> Sheamus vs. Barrett 5/29/13 ****3/4*
> ...


Superstars 2010-2011 was just as good, but yeah Main Event is awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> What a surprise...
> 
> When will they finally get over this and realize that nothing is gonna happen if they leave some unedited audio from 15 years ago that mentions Benoit positively? And then they have recently got their hard-on for New Jack who they've mentioned a few times in WWE.com articles and he's also featured in two DVDs now. Also everything about him suggests he's also a complete scumbag and unlike Benoit, he doesn't really have anything to his "legacy" that makes him worth exploring or promoting.
> 
> And what exactly is the Michael Buffer thing about? Why would they cut his part off?


Royalties, like the way they won't pay Ventura for use of his commentary either.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Catching up on some Main Event that I've skipped on for months. My goodness Sheamus is a beast.
> 
> Has there ever been a supplemental show as good as Main Event?


Also check out the Orton/Cesaro match from 5/5 I think it was. Their match in the beginning of the year was kinda dull but I enjoyed this one a lot more.



Smith_Jensen said:


> Michael Buffer charges huge amounts of money for his voice to be used and his catchphrase "Let's get ready to rumble" is trademarked.


Ah, okay. Thought it had something to do with him having a shady personal life or something, lol.

That's probably the reason for it since IIRC, the Satan's Prison DVD included Benoit's entrance.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I remember when Michael Buffer was the guest ring announcer for Royal Rumble 2008


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I have the Ladder match DVD from 2007 (or was it 2006?) and Benoit's not edited at all in any of the matches he's in. And I bought it over a month ago.

Not a big deal but I hear he's always taken out of shit when they release things, and this came out years ago and they usually re-edit them to take him out. He's even in WM 23 still, and I got that the week before WM 29.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I have quite a bit to catch up on, Both Shield/Hell RKNO matches, both Cesaro/Sheamus, Sheamus/Barrett, all of that Main Event, Bryan/Rollins. anything else from this year I am missing, TV wise?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eulonzo said:


> I have the Ladder match DVD from 2007 (or was it 2006?) and Benoit's not edited at all in any of the matches he's in. And I bought it over a month ago.
> 
> Not a big deal but I hear he's always taken out of shit when they release things, and this came out years ago and they usually re-edit them to take him out. He's even in WM 23 still, and I got that the week before WM 29.


Yeah those DVDs were produced and released before the incident.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Yeah those DVDs were produced and released before the incident.


Well the same goes for the War Games, but yeah the War Games stuff he was in was before the incident, but they haven't produced one until recently.

Assuming they just never re-edited the ones I have. I actually only bought those DVDs because I used to have them when they just came out but I have a history of losing DVDs and/or breaking them, sadly. :sad:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm sure if they re-released WM23 and indeed any PPV involving Benoit, he would be edited. So keep the originally released DVDs!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eulonzo said:


> I have the Ladder match DVD from 2007 (or was it 2006?) and Benoit's not edited at all in any of the matches he's in. And I bought it over a month ago.
> 
> Not a big deal but I hear he's always taken out of shit when they release things, and this came out years ago and they usually re-edit them to take him out. He's even in WM 23 still, and I got that the week before WM 29.


That DVD came out right before Benoit died. It's still sold in the normal way at WWEShop.com and they also sell the 2004 Royal Rumble there. (with Benoit mentioned in the description) Any anthologies they sell has him unedited too as they are just the old DVDs being released again.

That's what I hate about the pretending he didn't exist thing. He was there and featuring him in DVDs does no harm. If somebody doesn't want to see him, they can just skip his part. It was so stupid when they released Orton's DVD and show some quick clips of Orton's entrance and post-match holding the WHC from SummerSlam but didn't actually have the match or even go into details about it even though it's the biggest moment in his career.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I still remember the day Orton found the WHC in the ring at Summerslam 2004.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Well since RVD is coming back I thought it's good time to watch RVD : One of a Kind He's always been a favorite of mine although I never cared for him in TNA.










*RVD vs Scotty Flamingo* - I can't saw I have seen Raven work when he was this young haha. This was a fun little match though with Rob showing off some awesome acrobatics as always. *** 1/2*

*RVD vs Axel Rotten* - First ECW match for Rob, he talked before it how he tried to win over the crowd with his acrobatics but Rotten was still over when he mocked RVD's martial arts background. Theis match was pretty stiff actually with Rob bumping for Axel's tough offense. More fun quick wrestling. *****

*RVD vs Sabu* - Rob previewed this match by saying how Sabu really helped him became a man as a wrestler. They have a pretty great match starting with Sabu taking out the knees of Rob and then continues with his unique style. Rob sells the knees very well for what it's worth. Of course, the ropes have to break about 3 minutes in and the match should be fucked but somehow they get it to work. Sabu is on the offense for most of this match as they brawl in the crowd. Kudos for keeping it going for sure. This could have easily been Botchamania central but it was alright with crazy spots only RVD and Sabu can do. **** 3/4*​
I'll do some more later.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Big fan of RVD myself, but agree that I wasn't a fan of much of his TNA run.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> I still remember the day Orton found the WHC in the ring at Summerslam 2004.


They act as if he found it in his DVD Documentary, too. Same goes for Punk's DVD where they discuss Vengeance 2007, they act as if "Oh Morrison was there guy, they looked right through him and picked him" when he was only chosen to face Punk because Benoit wasn't there to compete... It's kinda've amusing.


Choke2Death said:


> That DVD came out right before Benoit died. It's still sold in the normal way at WWEShop.com and they also sell the 2004 Royal Rumble there. (with Benoit mentioned in the description) Any anthologies they sell has him unedited too as they are just the old DVDs being released again.
> 
> That's what I hate about the pretending he didn't exist thing. He was there and featuring him in DVDs does no harm. If somebody doesn't want to see him, they can just skip his part. It was so stupid when they released Orton's DVD and show some quick clips of Orton's entrance and post-match holding the WHC from SummerSlam but didn't actually have the match or even go into details about it even though it's the biggest moment in his career.


Yeah, that's the thing when they make DVDs/Documentaries for guys who have had some moments with Benoit or around Benoit & stuff, it comes across as stupid. I totally understand why they do it, though. I don't blame them, but at the same time, they make it seem like Orton found the title and didn't beat Benoit for it in a pretty good match - definitely one of Orton's best matches. Oh, and iirc, when they showed a photo of him holding the title a few minutes after he left the ring on the phone, they edited out Benoit's name on the nameplate (which is no surprise), but that's just me nitpicking.

I mean, I'm a huge Benoit fan, he's in my top 10 and maybe even top 5, and I'll always love the guy, not for what he did at the last weekend of his life, but for what he did in the ring, but you can't really blame WWE for erasing him in things & not acknowledging him and not putting him in the HoF. If you were in there position, you'd do it too, probably. Yes he had a messed up brain, yes he had problems, and yes he couldn't control himself, but he still murdered Nancy, he still murdered his seven year old son. There's evidence and proof of that. So I'm on both sides in a way, so I mean with all due respect I understand Benoit fans' gripe about it, but at the same time.. I would be hesitant as hell to promote/mention the guy as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Taz/Sabu from Barely Legal, and it's still awesome. Even 16 years later, it's still a legit big match and Taz at his prime was the Kurt Angle that Kurt Angle has always been trying to be (if you get what I mean).


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Swagger's such a monster, eh? fpalm


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eulonzo said:


> Yeah, that's the thing when they make DVDs/Documentaries for guys who have had some moments with Benoit or around Benoit & stuff, it comes across as stupid. I totally understand why they do it, though. I don't blame them, but at the same time, they make it seem like Orton found the title and didn't beat Benoit for it in a pretty good match - definitely one of Orton's best matches. Oh, and iirc, when they showed a photo of him holding the title a few minutes after he left the ring on the phone, *they edited out Benoit's name on the nameplate (which is no surprise)*, but that's just me nitpicking.


Actually they didn't. For some reason, when Benoit held the title, his name was written in a blurry way that meshed with the color of the belt itself so therefore, it's really hard to read it. You can clearly notice in this pic too. They would have probably edited it if it had been written in black, though.










Not gonna derail the thread with the talk of how WWE treat Benoit since it's a long discussion and never really goes anywhere.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Not gonna derail the thread with the talk of how WWE treat Benoit since it's a long discussion and never really goes anywhere.


Oh well I wasn't trying to lol, I was just going on with your discussion, that's all.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The WeAreProWrestling dude (from YT) gave Ziggler/ADR ****, and Punk/Jericho ****1/2. Wow. Imo Punk/Jericho was dope, but upon rewatch Ziggler/ADR was quite superior, seriously. Haven't seen a story that well told since Cena/Lesnar.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Agreed, I'd put Del Rio/Zig above Punk/Jericho. Both pretty good though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

who gives a fuck about Benoit, exceptional wrestler but his actions cannot go overlooked. Punk explained why the wwe distances itself from his name. They are just sticking to their guns with the dvds taking him out. No big deal


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Really hope the Smackdown main event this week ends up being great. Not gonna spoil it but it sounds pretty good.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Jim Ross just revealed the Blu-ray exclusives for The Legends of Mid-South Wrestling



> 1st hand story of hated villian Ted DiBiase getting his tires slashed by fans.
> 
> 1982 North American Title bout between JYD & DiBiase.
> 
> ...


Source - http://www.jrsbarbq.com/blog/raw-th...-wrestling-dvd-blu-ray-extrasjrs-uk-tour-info


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Spoiler: Cody" will mark for this]Christian[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
> [QUOTE="Yeah1993, post: 19913873, member: 183289
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Cody" will mark for this]Christian[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Yeah1993, post: 19913873, member: 183289






ATF said:


> Hint for Cody - Drew's opponent in arguably the TV MOTY last year.


The third post was a dead giveaway. Then I read the spoiler - correct.

:mark:


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Jim Ross just revealed the Blu-ray exclusives for The Legends of Mid-South Wrestling
> 
> 
> 
> Source - http://www.jrsbarbq.com/blog/raw-th...-wrestling-dvd-blu-ray-extrasjrs-uk-tour-info


Sweet! I'm hoping that means they brought in Jim Cornette for interviews.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Sweet! I'm hoping that means they brought in Jim Cornette for interviews.


It's either that or they are using old interviews from Jim Cornette that they have in their archives. If Jim Cornette is wearing a red suit and the aspect ratio of the footage is in 4:3, that footage is not new.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fluze said:


> *Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio (WWE Payback 2013) - WHC Match*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good write-up, and I'm glad you zoned in on Del Rio's facial expressions. That was a subtle, unappreciated, thing, that helped make him come across as a different sort of heel than normal. I loved his "kill 'em with a smile", sort of a sadistic, heelish, vibe.

It all was really a thing of a beauty.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> Good write-up, and I'm glad you zoned in on Del Rio's facial expressions. That was a subtle, unappreciated, thing, that helped make him come across as a different sort of heel than normal. I loved his "kill 'em with a smile", sort of a sadistic, heelish, vibe.
> 
> It all was really a thing of a beauty.


It was definitely a thing of beauty. Albert's presence of mind to express facial expressions, that go along with the story, is not to be counted out too. This match portrayed the unknown story, ala only 1 week build, best since Brock-Cena & Cena-Punk MITB. 

I reckon the ones who rate this match, with only "good" ratings like ***1/2 & ***3/4, do it because of the workers involved, and that they're so unseasoned and rookie-like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Or someone just didn't find the match to be as great as you.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody I want to get a respected opinion on this I wanted to know is there a difference between great worker and being great in-ring ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Cody I want to get a respected opinion on this I wanted to know is there a difference between great worker and being great in-ring ?


I'd say so. Being great in the ring can mean one is just simply gifted in the ring. He/she can perform moves crisp, fluid, and appear tremendous at the style or format presented. Where as the term "worker" tends to encapsulate a more overall perspective of a wrestler. How they work all aspects of pro wrestling: in ring work, facial expressions, storytelling, bumping, selling, etc the whole nine yards type of deal. Which is why you can read on occasion the term "they're such a smart worker" as the specific statement could be referring to someone blending in the proper channels to make a match stick out much more than a good show of swell looking wrestling moves.

It's at least how I perceive it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^thanks man I rep but got to spread it around more


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fluze said:


> It was definitely a thing of beauty. Albert's presence of mind to express facial expressions, that go along with the story, is not to be counted out too. This match portrayed the unknown story, ala only 1 week build, best since Brock-Cena & Cena-Punk MITB.


My favorite was when Del Rio was beckoning for Ziggler to come to him, while Del Rio was on his knee in the corner....knowing full well that Ziggler _couldn't_ come to him. The intensity that grows and grows in Del Rio's facial expression and mannerisms, while he's beckoning for Ziggler, is just a brilliant thing to watch. Brilliant performance.

I swear, it's little stuff like that, that is what makes me love wrestling, when wrestling is done that damn well.

And redskin25, so glad you enjoyed it, the more you re-watched it! Dolph was absolutely brilliant. When he grabbed on to the ref's leg, it was before the storyline had fully developed. So watching it in real-time, I really was like "why'd he grab on to the ref's leg?" I thought he made a mistake, and that he had assumed that the ref was Del Rio! lol. Those two were totally committed to making the storyline work in every single way, and they didn't miss a detail. 

Really can't get over how good that was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't worry about it, 'skins.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what's everyone watching on this wednesday night ? watching some prime :flair at the moment 85 stuff


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Getting ready to watch some more matches for my GAME project. After watching a lot of post 2006 stuff, plus the 2004 triple threats with HBK/Benoit, it's time for some pre-2003 Game. I also need to rewatch HIAC with Jericho, and watch the Vengeance 2004 match with Benoit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finished up Main Event right now. Cesaro does it again and carried Sin Cara to probably his best singles match in WWE. I mean Sin Cara still a bit iffy in portions, but Cesaro controlled a large chunk of the match & his never failing combo vs a junior heavyweight worked again.

Shield match was decent too. Did enough to put them over in a simple little match. As for the rest of the night, I'm not too sure. Something will tickle my fancy soon enough.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Sounds like I need to watch Main Event, don't think I ever had before..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never seen Main Event? You've missed out on some good matches here and there. Quite a bit from Sheamus.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching on this wednesday night ? watching some prime :flair at the moment 85 stuff


been slow going with my Danielson project because of family stuff but have 2 2002 ROH matches and his DGUSA match vs. Shingo lined up tonight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching on this wednesday night ? watching some prime :flair at the moment 85 stuff


Just been watching some more Orton matches for my list.

Finished the Shane match from No Way Out for the first time. It was decent and cool to see blood in the PG era without some stupid "DOCTORS NEED TO CHECK ON HIM!" bullshit. ★★★¼ for this.

Now gonna rewatch his match with Hardcore Holly after SummerSlam 05 since I recall it being pretty good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Im going wrestling funk right now. Every match I watch recently feels the same to me, and my whole * ratings are screwed. Cannot differentiate a good and bad match atm. Thinking about stopping my wrestling viewing for a while


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Not sure if imma watch PWG or RVD after Hockey


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Then tell the snowflakes to piss off and watch wrestling from the original standpoint of simply being a fan who eats up all the entertainment of the sport. :hayley3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I also watched some old Flair classics tonight.

Flair/Koko: *****1/2*\

I have never seen any non-WWE Koko before, but man was I impressed here. He played such a good babyface here and I loved his dropkick as well as his jabs. His charisma shows up much more in this setting than in the WWE. Count me as a believer.

Flair/Wahoo: *****1/4*

Good lord, Ric Flair during that second fall was a work of freakin' art. Not a single flaw from him here. Loved the ending of the third fall too with Wahoo's sleeper hold being his demise after he won the first fall with that same maneuver. So much tension and drama in the second and third fall. Wahoo looked pretty out of shape here, but I actually thought that it added to the match because it really made me wonder how he would be able to survive in this match. The thing I had a problem with that made me lower the rating here was the relatively dull first 15 minutes of the match. Felt like the generic filler that so many people in this thread criticize in other matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea contemplating on going off ** for a bit. Looking forward to the viper list c2d, I shit on orton theses days but I use to like the guy as we all did at one point


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Not really sure how to introduce this but I'm just going to g ahead and say it. When it's all said and done, i think Sheamus will go down as one of my favourite wrestlers of all time. Now, I'm not a super mark for the guy but I just love his work. I just wish WWE would book him like they did Cena circa 2006-2007 so he could put on some freaking classics. Apart from his match with Big Show at HIAC, I don't think I have any other Sheamus match as **** or higher. To me, it's the only really classic Sheamus match, unless I'm missing out something. But yeah, I just hope that WWE starts using the guy better and stop booking him in lame ass midcard pre-show blow off feuds. That way, he could get some classics and truly go down as one of my faves.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah screw *'s if you think about it during the whole time you watch a match. Shouldn't be like that, enjoy it while you watch, soak it in and then give a rating if you want to.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ idk why I do that, I getting so caught up in giving match proper ** because I'm doing a project and I'm starting to not be able to know what's a bad match and vice versa 

Edit: anybody got rec for some fun matches ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Finally watched ADR/Ziggler. Ziggler's babyface performance was rather inspiring. ADR played a good dickish heel as the match went on. Some of those blows to the head looked pretty brutal. AJ was great on the outside looking concerned as well. Great match, and something you don't really see these days. Kinda like a more drawn out version of Edge/Matt Hardy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching on this wednesday night ? watching some prime :flair at the moment 85 stuff


:henry1 of course. Going through the PPV singles now, currently at No Mercy 2008 Vs Matt Hardy & if it's anything like the match after Summerslam then OH JOY.

& check out the link in my sig & vote for me as I'm down by three votes... I HAVE MISAWA VS KAWADA VS TSURUTA & STAN HANSEN DESTROYING THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR ALONGSIDE OTHER FANTASTIC MATCHES.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

voted, do you guys just have to create matches with the names given to you ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ idk why I do that, I getting so caught up in giving match proper ** because I'm doing a project and I'm starting to not be able to know what's a bad match and vice versa
> 
> Edit: anybody got rec for some fun matches ?


Mike Awesome vs Spike Dudley ~ ECW Guilty as Charged 2000

Anything with Yoshihiro Tajiri or Antonio Cesaro

CM Punk vs Mark Henry ~ RAW 4/2 & 4/16

Minoru Suzuki vs Mecha Mummy ~ 6/23/06

HUSTLE Rangers vs MONSTER Army ~ HUSTLE #8 3/18/05

Dolph Ziggler vs Batista ~ RAW 12/1/08

Mascarita Sagrada, Oscar Sevilla, Cynthia Moreno, & Pimpinella Estrella vs Fabi Apache, Gran Apache, Mini Abismo ***** & Polvo de Estrellas ~ HUSTLE #3 5/8/04

Mick Foley vs Randy Orton ~ Backlash 2004



The Lady Killer said:


> Finally watched ADR/Ziggler. Ziggler's babyface performance was rather inspiring. ADR played a good dickish heel as the match went on. Some of those blows to the head looked pretty brutal. AJ was great on the outside looking concerned as well. Great match, and something you don't really see these days. Kinda like a more drawn out version of Edge/Matt Hardy.


(Y)

wait till you see RAW...if you haven't that is. :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> :henry1 of course. Going through the PPV singles now, currently at No Mercy 2008 Vs Matt Hardy & if it's anything like the match after Summerslam then OH JOY.
> 
> & check out the link in my sig & vote for me as I'm down by three votes... I HAVE MISAWA VS KAWADA VS TSURUTA & STAN HANSEN DESTROYING THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR ALONGSIDE OTHER FANTASTIC MATCHES.


Recommend me some :henry1 dude!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Mike Awesome vs Spike Dudley ~ ECW Guilty as Charged 2000
> 
> Anything with Yoshihiro Tajiri or Antonio Cesaro
> 
> ...


nice dude, you know im gonna check this one out first


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KOK that Hardy vs Henry match rules. Not their best from 2008, yet plenty worth watching. My favorite between them has to be their Post-SummerSlam match on ECW. That one was glorious. iirc the fans were super hot for it too.

@skins - Dolph's WWE debut match as "Dolph Ziggler". He looks good vs Batista too. It's awesome. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for voting man, 12 hours left to go and I'm down by 2 holy shit (& I need all the help I can get guys so keep voting)

Henry recommendations? 

Mark Henry Vs Tajiri (SD 9/5/2002)
Mark Henry Vs Goldberg (RAW 10/27/2003)
Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 1/18/2006 ... ANY Rey-Henry really but this one in particular)
Mark Henry Vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 2/10/2006)
Mark Henry Vs Chris Benoit (SD 5/26/2006)
Mark Henry Vs Matt Hardy (ECW 8/19/2008)

PRE-HALL OF PAIN TO HOLD YOU OVER.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> voted, do you guys just have to create matches with the names given to you ?


For FUN, check out the Steiner Brothers vs. Sting & Lex Luger from the early 90s. Scott Steiner was so good back then!:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xv...er-vs-the-steiner-brothers_sport#.UcJ69tgcuSo (ff to the 5:30 mark)


I still greatly prefer the Steiner Brothers vs. Bret & Owen Hart (best tag match of all-time, to me):
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/classic-wrestling/815642-great-bret-hart-matches-10.html#post19295849 [Video links on the first page]

But the one against Lex/Sting will probably feel more "fun" because it was shorter, though the Hart one has far more highlights and superior back and forth wrestling. Plus, astonishing technical skill from all four men.

And again, can't get over how good Scott Steiner was. He looked like the best man in the ring at times, and that's saying something, considering the two he was facing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't really think of too many "bad" Scott Steiner matches. Even from TNA. He was always pretty fun to watch in the ring. Perhaps I like the guy a lot, but meh. I stand by it.

Leaping Frankensteiner from the late 80's & early 90's is unreal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao :lmao almost forgot the "Hi I'm Dolph Ziggler" stick he use to have. I remember his segment with hbk and rey lol, if only Shawn and him had one match, would be on cloud 9 for days


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@BEAST np man @lilOME thanks its so weird watching matches and not ** them I almost forgot how to with doing so

gonna get off here and enjoy this matches


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Can't really think of too many "bad" Scott Steiner matches. Even from TNA. He was always pretty fun to watch in the ring. Perhaps I like the guy a lot, but meh. I stand by it.
> 
> Leaping Frankensteiner from the late 80's & early 90's is unreal.


No, you're right, it's not even subjective. He was fantastic. It's just that my perception of him was based on what people say about his more current character, and the "Getting wrestling advice from Scott Steiner" thing that shows up on the side of profiles. It makes it seem like Scott is a shit wrestler or something.

I totally had no memory of him back in his younger days, except I do remember him coming out in the collegiate jacket. I just didn't remember much of his WWE run for some reason (and I didn't watch WCW back then).

So when I watched him in the Hart match, I was completely blown away. It's like, I was being blown away, not only by a wrestler being absurdly excellent (he was), but also blown away because my perception of him was totally different, just based on the comments of people.

I mentioned in another thread that I was genuinely confused, and thought that Scott Steiner must be Rick Steiner. When I realized that the long haired dude really was Scott, it just couldn't compute for me. I kept looking up different sources, thinking that I must be wrong. For real! lol.

Anyway, because of all of that, I've started looking up his more recent stuff, and I agree with you. He was still good and better than people give him credit for, as the roided up dude. Plus, I love his promos, and his Twitter rants had me seriously LOL'ing.

Basically, he's quickly become one of my favorite wrestlers ever. As the younger version of himself, he's one of my favorite pure wrestlers ever (and I'd say, seriously rivals or betters any of the known "best wrestlers"). And as the older version, he's one of the most entertaining characters to me.

A total win, all because I was randomly checking out old Hart matches, lol.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

And you're right about the leaping Frankensteiner, but have you seen the old Steiner pilerdriver? Not the way he did it relatively recently in TNA, but the one he did on Owen was just nasty. You could tell that Gorilla Monsoon was genuinely blown away.

He was a damn creative wrestler, and had a ton of stuff in his arsenal. 

He really should get more praise.

Also, to me, he's a classic case of bullshit politics, because there's no reason why he couldn't be contributing to a major company right now. He's much better in every way than a lot of old folks who stick around, and you can tell that he genuinely is a fan of young talent. 

There's a lot more to say on this, but eh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao :lmao almost forgot the "Hi I'm Dolph Ziggler" stick he use to have. I remember his segment with hbk and rey lol, if only Shawn and him had one match, would be on cloud 9 for days







DOLPH



LilOlMe said:


> No, you're right, it's not even subjective. He was fantastic. It's just that my perception of him was based on what people say about his more current character, and the "Getting wrestling advice from Scott Steiner" thing that shows up on the side of profiles. It makes it seem like Scott is a shit wrestler or something.
> 
> I totally had no memory of him back in his younger days, except I do remember him coming out in the collegiate jacket. I just didn't remember much of his WWE run for some reason (and I didn't watch WCW back then).
> 
> ...


Scott's WWE (not F) tenure is a bit marred thanks to what he was given and did upon first arriving. The pairing up vs a completely awful Triple H did not make for a good combo. Scott himself was really bad vs him too. The rest of his run was fine. Nothing I'd describe as bad or incredibly memorable, although once he moved away from Trips it was much better. Program vs Test bred some good matches.

His work in latter WCW too was worth a look. I'm talking like the 2000 days. Specifically against Goldberg, Mike Awesome, & generally any other match where he got to squash someone. He squashed four guys one night and put them in a Steiner Recliner all on top of each other. Considering how much you seem to dig Scott Steiner, I'd say you should go scope it out asap. If you haven't stumbled upon it already.

Have you see Steiners vs Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc '90?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Scott's WWE (not F) tenure is a bit marred thanks to what he was given and did upon first arriving. The pairing up vs a completely awful Triple H did not make for a good combo. Scott himself was really bad vs him too. The rest of his run was fine. Nothing I'd describe as bad or incredibly memorable, although once he moved away from Trips it was much better. Program vs Test bred some good matches.
> 
> His work in latter WCW too was worth a look. I'm talking like the 2000 days. Specifically against Goldberg, Mike Awesome, & generally any other match where he got to squash someone. He squashed four guys one night and put them in a Steiner Recliner all on top of each other. Considering how much you seem to dig Scott Steiner, I'd say you should go scope it out asap. If you haven't stumbled upon it already.
> 
> Have you see Steiners vs Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc '90?


Yeah, I heard a wrestler commenting on this in a shoot. I think that it was Lance Storm. He said that he felt that Scott was used as a scapegoat, since both Scott and Triple H were coming off of major injuries. He said that Scott was put into those main event matches way too soon, before he had even recovered. He didn't understand why Scott seemed to have gotten most of the blame (don't know if this is accurate, as to who got blamed at the time, just relaying what he said).

Yeah, I saw a match against Goldberg that I liked. What's the where he squashed four guys in one night?

No, I haven't seen the Nasty Boys match. Checking it out now!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'M IN THE LEAD :mark: :mark: :mark:

Seriously, if I win I can do Savage-Benoit, Hansen-Misawa, & Kawada-Tsuruta in the next round. KEEP IT COMIN'.

Back to MATCH related news; fuck the WWE for not giving Hardy & Henry a ton of time at Summerslam 2008, opting to let them tear shit up on ECW a few days later. Anybody have a link to the FULL ECW scramble match from Unforgiven 2008 & not chopped up into parts, would be greatly appreciated as I realized that I need to watch that before I tackle the No Mercy match.

@lilOlMe, here's the Steiner Vs 4 guys link. CAL was actually the guy who uploaded it .

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...hts-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport#.UcKGlvksnjU


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Have you see Steiners vs Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc '90?


Only three minutes into this, Obfuscation, and I'm already ::shock at the way Scott gets out of the Superplex, and then reverses it.

The man is amazing. 

Sucks for him that he came along when the tag division wasn't as strong in the WWF in the early-mid 90s. If he were around in the late 80s, he would have been beastin' in the WWF.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> @lilOlMe, here's the Steiner Vs 4 guys link. CAL was actually the guy who uploaded it .
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...hts-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport#.UcKGlvksnjU


Thanks so much, going to watch this after!

I should do a Scott Steiner appreciation thread one of these days, lol...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Literally have seen a bad cesaro/sin cara match yet watching all of them


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Evan did you watch the No DQ Hardy/Henry I posted from a house show in 2008? Maybe I was just blown away by the fact I'd heard of it, but I thought it wasn't far off of their best match together (which is 8/19/08 unless I'm missing some more. Still haven't watched 12/30/08, I don't think. They had one in early 09, as well).



Obfuscation said:


> Have you see Steiners vs Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc '90?


Someone asked for a 'fun' match, yeah? HERE is your answer. Also random plug for Scorpio v. Al Snow (or whatever name he had then) at Survivor Series 96. And that Henry/Tajiri from 02 Evan found is mind blowing levels of fun. I can't think of a sub-five minute I like more. Then again my memory isn't the best for match times.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Taker & Big Show vs. Mankind & Rock is so fun. I believe it was buried alive too, hilarious. :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You wouldn't mind summoning up that Henry/Hardy match right now so I could watch the No Mercy match alongside it back-to-back would you ?

& when it comes to FUN, Tajiri-Henry is like technically less than 3 minutes long IIRC and AMAZING. It's actually a must-see contest that I'd recommend over a number of classic bouts for the simple idea of it being short, sweet, and too the point on it's awesomeness. Henry is great because most of his matches are short and I get burnt out from long matches easily.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mCy7P7D6M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAghehflh8



Spoiler:  my thoughts and thoughts and summary and thoughts



Mark Henry v. Matt Hardy (Innsbruck, Austria 9/26/08)
No DQ. I had no choice but to have unnatural expectations for his and YES it totally met them. Hardy starts by playing off of the reception he’s getting, raising and lowering his arms to dictate the level of noise the crowd make, etc. Henry covers his ears and kicks the ropes all Eddie Guerrero style, and then later mocks Hardy, raising and lowering his arms (right before stepping on Hardy’s cheek). There was an awesome near fall where Henry kicks out by throwing Hardy off of him, and the ref had to run out of the ring to not be squished by a flying Hardy. Henry taking it to the outside and using the guardrail (plus hitting his remarkably great clubs) was really cool and Hardy is naturally willing to bump nicely for him. The ref nearly gets hit again, when Henry throws the steps into the ring and he has to back up all ‘hey, HEY, look out, HEY!’ I loved how Henry didn’t leave his feet unless Hardy used his own momentum against him – slipping from the ring post shot, and dodging the ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’. Hardy tries to capitalise on the ring post spot with a trash can, but winds up getting levelled. After ‘I’mma sit my PHATASS on your face’, Atlas gives Henry a chair which leads to an awesome spot where Hardy dodges, and Henry sends the chair into the ropes and back into his own face. Henry going down after a single ladder shot may have bee a little anti-climatic, but I didn’t totally expect him to kick out of the ladder elbow, so that kind of made up for it. Atlas comes in to help, which sets up Henry getting a completely credible near fall off of nothing more than a fist to the face. Beautiful. Finish run was really well done. Not sure this is as good as their best match together, but ‘not sure’ is he key word. This is still one of the better WWE matches I’ve seen from 2008. Other than Finlay, was there anybody in the WWE better than these two that year?




I love Henry, obviously, but that Henry/Tajiri match was mostly about Tajiri not being able to string anything together and being a fucking amazing Jerry to Henry's Tom. Hell, it wasn't even like that, He just kept trying to hit something and Henry would wipe him out and he'd pretty much cry. The spot with the tarantula made me laugh more than anything wrestling related I've seen in over a year. Seriously...Tajiri was five stars in that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I'M IN THE LEAD :mark: :mark: :mark:


My vote put you in the lead. 

-------------------

Before getting some sleep (it's 7 AM now and the sun is now starting to shine, lol), I decided to check out this Orton vs Lashley match from ECW before WM23 and wow, it was pretty good. Orton even doing a Boston Crab! Surprised Lashley beat him completely clean just like that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Only three minutes into this, Obfuscation, and I'm already ::shock at the way Scott gets out of the Superplex, and then reverses it.
> 
> The man is amazing.
> 
> Sucks for him that he came along when the tag division wasn't as strong in the WWF in the early-mid 90s. If he were around in the late 80s, he would have been beastin' in the WWF.


(Y)

S'ok. He got to tear it up in WCW with the tag teams there. Although I take it you were much bigger on WWF growing up so having around in that golden era would have appeased you tenfold.



redskins25 said:


> Literally have seen a bad cesaro/sin cara match yet watching all of them


It's like that with any junior/cruiserweight/high flyer type vs Cesaro. Consistency for a good or great match in that outlet is outrageous.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dusty Rhodes raised some weird kids.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea put a crusierweight or w.e their called theses days against cesaro and its gold. He really meshes well with that style


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bring back Evan Bourne and make that match happen WWE. 

I'm dying for it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I cannot imagine how good Cesaro v. Bourne could be.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

There's no reason for Evan Bourne not to come back. I believe he's not injured anymore, but I'm sure the reason why is 'cause of the suspension(s). I don't know much about it, maybe he got suspended once, but if it was twice, then.. yeah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pop up European Uppercut. It'll probably make the fans heads explode at how high Cesaro can launch Bourne up.

:homer @ the prospects.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bourne/cesaro could be something extremely special


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Have you see Steiners vs Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc '90?


Finished. LOL @ the ending. I loved the match. Every time I watch a young Steiner match, I see something that Scott's not done in any other match. He's amazing.

The crowd was really into it, by the way!

And that was some of the best I've seen of the Nasty Boys, so they were definitely elevated by their competition.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> @lilOlMe, here's the Steiner Vs 4 guys link. CAL was actually the guy who uploaded it .
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...hts-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport#.UcKGlvksnjU


Hahaha, this was funny. And there actually had to be a good bit of planning and coordination involved, even though it was just a squash.

Thanks!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fluze said:


> The Steiner Brothers vs. Miracle Violence Connection (Beach Blast 1992) ****1/4
> 
> An amazing tag match, which never has the feeling of tedious or dragging on. The core story begins with Gordy & Williams targeting Scott's knee, as the main, to encourage an imminent face in peri episode.





The Beast Incarnate said:


> I fucking ADORE that Steiner's tag.





bigbuxxx said:


> This was one of the rare ppvs I ordered when I was a kid. I remember that match so well. It was fanfuckingtastic. That along with Cactus/Sting and Rude/Steamboat Iron man match :mark: :mark: :mark:





Yeah1993 said:


> Beach Blast 1992 is the greatest PPV of all time. It has to be. With that said, watch the MVC/Steiners match from the 6/92 Clash, it's even better. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...iams-terry-gordy-clash-xix_sport#.Ubum0_kziSo
> 
> Just the mention of this stuff gets me nostalgic for 2011 WCW mega-watching.


Both matches were great, but I agree with Yeah1993 that the match in his link was fantastic. 

I actually had it at ***** when I was about ten minutes into the match. It was rivaling the match against the Harts, as one of the best US tag matches I've ever seen, and even topping it, because this one had better psychology.

It didn't quite maintain that five star level throughout, but it was still really amazing. Loved all of the countering, and like I said, the psychology.

The Beach match was great too. Fantastic climax, and the timing was great too. That Frankensteiner was beautifully executed. The speed, precision, timing...it's the best one I've seen yet.

Also loved the methodical nature of keeping Scott away from his corner. I'd probably be even more effusive, if I hadn't seen Yeah1993's link first.

I love how they could have two matches days apart, that have completely different vibes from each other.

Anyway, in short: The Steiner brothers rock.

And Scott might be the most underappreciated/misappreciated (yes, I may have made up a word) wrestler ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not quite sure he's the most under-appreciated guy in the whole of wrestling. He does occasionally only get noticed by some fans as that guy who has the insanely hilarious promos over remembering his strong work in the ring. I get your point all the same.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1993 Scott Steiner was gold. 2003 Scott Steiner had one of the worst feuds in wrestling history. 10 years timespan is a bitch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meh. Still a better career than Triple H has had.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Scott Steiner is the man in the ring and especially on the mic 

Hi bro


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seth Roll.

amirite?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> Meh. Still a better career than Triple H has had.


LOL, that's what I meant when I said "I could say more" on this topic. I think that what irritates me about Triple H is his smugness. Like, I saw a comment he made about how guys (Scott) are bothered because he's somewhere they want to be, and he throws in his little, smug, knowing, tone about their career prospects. I've seen him do it a few times, and he did the same about Scott recently.

It's just irritating, because he says it like those guys are shit, and like he got to where he was because he's just so damn good (and superior, presumably).

Someone said this in one of the Triple H political threads, and it is so damn on the money:


Cliffy Byro said:


> Would he have been a main eventer had he not married Steph ?, Yes but he would've been phased out years ago.
> 
> Would he have been a main eventer had he not been a member of the Kliq ?. Absolutely not. He'd now be a fat balding guy in his forties working Indy shows in the North east.


I'd find him tolerable, if it weren't for the smugness. It's like, you don't have the right to be so smug. Because really, without your connections, you'd be in the same position someone like Steiner is in, and probably would have been there years before him.

And I honestly feel like someone like Scott has a ton more to offer.

I know Scott took shots publicly first, but it's an attitude from Triple H that I always sense. And the fact that someone like him is now in a position where others have to kiss his ring...it's just kind of bullshit.

Maybe it's moreso the fans that bother me. Like they talk shit about anyone who says anything, and they always say that the wrestlers are just bitter (my favorite) and jealous. Maybe they are? Wouldn't you be, if you witnessed a lot of bullshit going on, and you KNOW that you're better and more sincere than this guy?

I like this post:


> Yep, that's right, Scott Steiner is bitter and jealous and it has nothing to do with the fact that he went from a former WCW World Champ and main event mainstay in WCW to being Triple H's jobber in WWE. Oh, and that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with backstage politics, the fact is that fans just don't like Steiner and he can't make it in the, "big time." Oh, and nevermind the fact that Steiner has 6 years in the business on Triple H, and all the numerous Wrestling Observer awards he's gotten such as best worked match, best move, tag team of the year, and five-star match, he can't work and he's completely inferior to Triple H. Everyone wonders why the business is falling apart, THIS is why the business is falling apart. Instead of actually trying to take an objective approach to the whole thing and judge wrestlers based on certain set aspects of their ring performance all we get is a bunch of fanboys who just go around spouting whatever tired line Vince and his lackeys throw out there in order to save face. You don't have to like Scott Steiner, and everything he says may not be entirely true, but you're just blind if you can't realize that he had a promising period in his career lined up in WCW that basically got thrown out the window by Triple H's backstage politics. Whether those politics included, "banging the boss' daughter," is irrevelant, Triple H has a well documented history of playing the politics game to get ahead, even if that means stepping over other people who deserve their spot.
> 
> And I don't see any steroid-related posts yet, but before anyone starts going on that rant, you may want to remember that Triple H has had his own history with the juice.


Ok sorry to get off topic, and sorry if I offended any Triple H fans, but it's something I've been thinking about for awhile, and the convo sort of came up.

Anyway, it's just sad to see guys who have a real passion and knowledge for the business just pushed aside. I didn't even watch TNA regularly when Steiner was going on his Twitter rants about it, but you can just tell that every word he was saying was true. And they should thank him for the free promo, because it actually made me interested in seeing what shenanigans were going on over there, lol. 

Anyway, this thread has been a gold mine for good match recommendations, so thank you all for that!


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Seth Roll indeed.

I hope we get Dean/Kane again


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm still wanting that tag team to happen. Can't get Boz Skaggs, so I'll have to hope for the next best thing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah I'd rate Steiner over HHH pretty damn easily. Steiner wasn't good in 2003, but, I mean, if we compare him to Helmsley in 2003, well.......s'not like Helmlsey wasn't goddamn atrocious in 2003. Is there a worse main event year in the history of wrestling? Or at least mainstream wrestling? Peak Scott Steiner (tagging with Rick in early 90s) is better than peak HHH (half of 2000), anyway. I reckon I'd rate Rick Steiner over HHH, as well.

Scott Steiner jumped on a pogo stick on TV once. There should be no argument following that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not to mention that Weapons match vs Jeff Jarrett was actually kind of a boatload of fun. The pogo stick. I can't control the joy and laughter now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He just understands life.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah I'd rate Steiner over HHH pretty damn easily. Steiner wasn't good in 2003, but, I mean, if we compare him to Helmsley in 2003, well.......s'not like Helmlsey wasn't goddamn atrocious in 2003. *Is there a worse main event year in the history of wrestling? *Or at least mainstream wrestling? Peak Scott Steiner (tagging with Rick in early 90s) is better than peak HHH (half of 2000), anyway. I reckon I'd rate Rick Steiner over HHH, as well.
> 
> Scott Steiner jumped on a pogo stick on TV once. There should be no argument following that.


*Cena's 2012* :vince

As far as full main event year, nope not even close.

Though in overall dissapointment, Rock in 2013 if he counts is as bad as 03 Trips imo. At least Trips had two very good matches, against Flair in May and the HBK one. Plus, Evolution 

Bar two segments (the first promo against Punk and the legends segment w/Cena), all Rock did this year was garbage.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> *Cena's 2012* :vince
> 
> As far as full main event year, nope not even close.
> 
> ...


I didn't think the Punk matches were THAT bad. Bad, but not at level of the worst of HHH. Didn't see the Cena match, but that's, like, three matches. I certainly don't think Rock in 2013 looked as bad as HHH in 2003. The Michaels match is pretty good (even if I don't love it) and to be fair IDR the Flair match, but literally everything else Game touched that year went down the crapper. Steiner matches are all time bad, the Nash matches sucked (and Nash was the better guy in at least one of them...), the Kane match on TV stunk shit and I cannot imagine the Goldberg matches being any good...though I'd love to re-watch them. That year he also became probably the only wrestler ever to be carried by Booker T, and it wasn't even a legit good match. I wasn't counting promos, but HHH's fake Harley Race angle got Goldberg to pair up with Henry and have maybe the Raw MOTY so it could in his favour, I guess. 

Cena/Lesnar is probably better than any HHH match ever, and Cena/Punk NOC smokes anything Helmsley did in 03. Cena/Kane last year was better than the terrible Trip/Kane mask match on Raw, too. The Rock match at Mania was OK. IDK if you were joking or anything but Cena 12 isn't even on in the same universe of suck that is HHH's 03. 

Speaking of Cena's 12, did anybody find it offensive to every other wrestler when Cena said on Raw 'I had a horrible 2012', while he was 'Superstar of the Year' last year? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> He just understands life.


:clap

btw, yeah, the Flair vs Trips '03 match is one of the few matches that's actually good/watchable. And the Goldberg matches aren't very good. Admittedly I can watch the Survivor Series match. the run-ins in the end remind me of WCW. Nostalgia points. Plus, Goldberg owns everyone. So it rocks on that aspect.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Bruno's whole WWF reign was full of crappery, struggling to find one GOOD match. What a shitty worker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't think the Punk matches were THAT bad. Bad, but not at level of the worst of HHH. Didn't see the Cena match, but that's, like, three matches. I certainly don't think Rock in 2013 looked as bad as HHH in 2003. The Michaels match is pretty good (even if I don't love it) and to be fair IDR the Flair match, but literally everything else Game touched that year went down the crapper. Steiner matches are all time bad, the Nash matches sucked (and Nash was the better guy in at least one of them...), the Kane match on TV stunk shit and I cannot imagine the Goldberg matches being any good...though I'd love to re-watch them. That year he also became probably the only wrestler ever to be carried by Booker T, and it wasn't even a legit good match. I wasn't counting promos, but HHH's fake Harley Race angle got Goldberg to pair up with Henry and have maybe the Raw MOTY so it could in his favour, I guess.
> 
> Cena/Lesnar is probably better than any HHH match ever, and Cena/Punk NOC smokes anything Helmsley did in 03. Cena/Kane last year was better than the terrible Trip/Kane mask match on Raw, too. The Rock match at Mania was OK. IDK if you were joking or anything but Cena 12 isn't even on in the same universe of suck that is HHH's 03.
> 
> Speaking of Cena's 12, did anybody find it offensive to every other wrestler when Cena said on Raw 'I had a horrible 2012', while he was 'Superstar of the Year' last year? :lmao


I was joking about Cena's '12, since Cena puts that year over as Godawful for him so many times 

Rock/Punk II was decent yeah, but the 1st one is a pure vomit of a match. Biggest dissapointment since Lesnar/Goldberg as far as I'm concerned. Also, if you haven't seen Trips/Flair May '03 yet, do it. It's really good. And I too love that Goldberg/Henry match. Makes me wish so hard for Lesnar/Henry :mark:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

D/Bry and Rollins match is on the Payback Blu Ray :mark:

www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/extras-wwe-payback-2013-dvd-blu-ray/44929/

May have to get that bad boy now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It is? Son of a.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

What are people's opinions on the Punk vs. Rock matches? I've seen some people lately give them 1/5 or less, or calling one of them vomit as above. I honestly didn't think they were that bad at all. I guess it has been a little while and I was just so damn excited to see the Rumble match that it might have clouded my judgment. 

I definitely did think the match was disappointing. The hype and build for it was great and the energy surrounding the match was great. Except the match itself, wasn't quite so great. But I still thought it was solid.

The false finish perhaps hurt the match a little, though it had me going and I was ecstatic that Punk appeared to beat The Rock. The real finish was also really disappointing though. I was expecting at least a couple of great nearfalls and some counters to end it. Instead (from memory) we only got a People's Elbow. I was hoping that Punk would kick out of at least one of The Rock's finishing moves. I don't want to sound like a massive Punk mark (though I kinda am), I wouldn't have cared if The Rock kicked out of 10 of Punk's finishers. As long as Punk got to kick out of one. This was a title match to end a 434 day long reign. I really expected more.

Unfortunately I barely remember the Elimination Chamber match. I might watch them both again tomorrow and see how I feel about them now. I vaguely remember Part 2 being a better match but it didn't have the excitement that the first did. I still highly doubt I'll be giving it less than 1 out of 5


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm going to have to re-watch both (Muted) but i thought the Rumble match was beyond awful. 

Lights going out, Shield attack (that led nowhere) and Cole's moronic screaming to the referee that "IT WAS SHIELD, MIKE CHIODA, IT WAS SHIELD, GOD FUCKING DAMN" I wanted to shoot Cole then myself for having to listen to that shit. Even before that the match was boring as shite.

EC match at least had a bit more purpose, Punk was the deluded former champion trying to get Rock riled up and get DQ'd, but in another way it made Punk look like a chump. But it's against *Rock* so the goal was achieved.


----------



## xD7oom (May 25, 2012)

> WrestlingDVDNews.com reports that certain commentary about Chris Benoit is edited out of WWE's upcoming War Games DVD. Benoit is featured in the nWo vs. Four Horsemen match from 1997. Here is a screencap, courtesy of WrestlingDVDNews.com:











http://ringsidenews.com/article/103...g-wwe-dvd-cm-punk-trying-to-get-colt-cabana-/


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HHH's 2003 was worse than Rock 2013 IMO. At least Rock was only a part timer that needed time to get back to ring shape after being out for so many years. I understand HHH had injury problems but I still think his 2003 was worse.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Dave "The Wrestling God" Meltzer's star ratings for Payback

Curtis Axel vs Miz vs Barrett ***1/4
AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn ***
Ambrose vs Kane **1/4
Alberto Del Rio V Dolph Ziggler ***1/2
CM Punk V Chris Jericho ****1/2
The Shield Vs Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton ***1/2
John Cena V Ryback ***1/4


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Punk/Jericho rating is just :lmao

Also just seen the fucking Cena/Ryback rating fpalm


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody, Yeah, and Evan you guys see this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fizy6BsnMHU


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah Meltzer said in his running live Payback diary that he thought Punk/Jericho was a MOTYC, so I'm not surprised by the rating.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What do people around here think about Angle/Edge matches?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

A week after the first watch, I've watched it again and this time, with a review~!

*Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn || NXT 13/06/2013*
_This always has been and forever will be a beautiful combination. I recently watched their match from PWG Kurt Russellreunion 2011 that I believe was posted in this thread, and that was all sorts of awesome. But this rules the world in a much different way. The way Cesaro punishes Zayn before he's even been announced is great, and really plays on the fact that he was embarrassed by Zayn, and when I say punishes, I mean absolutely brutalises. Everything Antonio does has force, venom and purpose and it adds so much to the match. The uppercuts with ridiculous momentum, the stiff punches and the hard as fuck slams, it all means so much. It's no secrete that Zayn, arguably, plays the plucky babyface better than anybody in the world and he shows that once again. The thing I love about him not keeping the mask is that even without it, we get these cartoonish, outlandish facial expressions and they just add so much, and they're not TOO outlandish or TOO cartoonish to seem inappropriate - They're marvellous. They work well to create some very nice spots as well that they can easily call back to in their rubber match (which I presume they will have) and it's exactly what they should do. Just stuff like Cesaro catching Zayn in mid air for the backbreaker, or Zayn's bodyscissors-headscissors from the turnbuckle, it just all adds up to create a fantastic match with a solid story of the proven superstar attempting to avenge an embarrassing loss, whilst the "WWE rookie" tries to prove that it wasn't a fluke. 

Overall, this is just one step behind Regal vs. Ohno, but a rewatch of that match could change that. This is comfortably the second best match in NXT history and Cesaro's best match in the company, although it is neck and neck with his match against Kingston on Main Event. Cesaro manages to prove that once again, he truly is one of the best not only in the WWE but in the world, and Zayn proves to any doubters than never saw his indy work, that he's just as good as everybody says he is, and then some. I know Zayn had a lot of doubters, simply based on how much praise he gets from his fans from the Generico days, but this match should prove to all of them doubters that he's simply awesome.

****_​


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Stars for RVD/Lynn Living Dangerously? Cause damnnnnn.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ATF said:


> What do people around here think about Angle/Edge matches?


I watched their Backlash '02, Hair vs Hair match, and their cage match from SD! a couple months ago. Gave them ****1/2, ****1/2, **** respectively and people around here seemed to think those were appropriate. I was blown away because I was never a fan of Edge's work.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Backlash 02 was one of the most fun matches I have ever seen. Easy *****1/2* and the most underrated match in both of their careers. Judgment Day was pretty good too, but I didn't think it was on the same level as Backlash. Not the biggest fan of the cage match, but it was pretty good too.

Bruno Sammartino sucks.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YEAH, I'm not going to lie man but that Hardy-Henry House Show match fucking ruled the earth. It's amazing because here are to guys that just excel at working a simple match with simple roles, and they take it into a NO DQ environment and deliver an exciting but smart bout that only uses weapons when needed and not in a gratuitous way. Love, love, LOVE it as Mark & Matt have some ridiculous chemistry that might be some of the craziest/underrated that I've ever seen. 

We need more Henry House Show matches in here STAT.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> What do people around here think about Angle/Edge matches?


I've seen the hair vs hair match and their Smackdown cage match and thoroughly enjoyed both of them. I remember reviewing both matches as part of my Edge match project some months back - but I can't find the reviews atm.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Dave "The Wrestling God" Meltzer's star ratings for Payback
> 
> Curtis Axel vs Miz vs Barrett ***1/4
> AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn ***
> ...


You forgot this match

Sheamus vs. Damien Sandow ***


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Admittedly, Meltzer is a pretty consistent critic. Even if he's absurd.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You really get a sense that he enjoys matches packed with a zillion finishers.

He DID give Cena-Rock II **** 1/2*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Angle/Edge JD is one of the few Angle-shenanigan matches I actually love. The shenanigans actually added to the story for once, and with the added fast paced fun this was a great match.

Makes me think - top 5 most overrated/underrated Angle matches?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> You really get a sense that he enjoys matches packed with a zillion finishers.
> 
> He DID give Cena-Rock II **** 1/2*


you would of thought he would have given hbk/taker wm 25 the full five. Me personally thats why I dont give it the 5* I hate the finishing sequence.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

WWE Payback DVD cover









Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-payback-2013-dvd-cover-art/45040/


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Thoughts on the following matches people...

Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)
Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)
Taker/Batista HIAC
Taker/Orton HIAC
Taker/Edge HIAC
Orton/Cena (Summerslam 07 & NWO 08)

Just need to know if these are worth my time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd say all of them are worth your time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bubz said:


> Thoughts on the following matches people...
> 
> Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)
> Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)
> ...


Orton vs HHH - ★★★★½
Taker vs Batista - ★★★★¼
Taker vs Batista (HIAC) - ★★★½
Taker vs Orton (HIAC) - ★★★★½
Taker vs Edge (HIAC) - ★★★★
Orton vs Cena (SS 07) - ★★★★
Orton vs Cena (NWO 08) - ★★★★½

All of them worth the time with Taker/Batista's HIAC being the least good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bubz said:


> Thoughts on the following matches people...
> 
> Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)
> Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)
> ...


Orton/Trips *****1/4*. Their best match together by far.

Taker/Batista CS *****1/4*. Very good match with one of Batista's greatest performances.

Taker/Batista HIAC ******. Kinda sluggish and boring at times, but real good match on a real good PPV.

Taker/Orton HIAC *****1/2*. The perfect example of how a feud-ending HIAC match should be done.

Taker/Edge HIAC *****1/2*. Another perfect example. I actually kinda hated their feud, but I thought they did a great job concluding it.

Orton/Cena SS 07 ****3/4*. Solid match with a big match feel, but terrible ending.

Orton/Cena NWO 08 ******. Pure storytelling at its finest. Their best match together.

Here are a couple real fun matches that are worth a watch:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bubz said:


> Thoughts on the following matches people...
> 
> Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)
> Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)
> ...


iirc Yes
YES
NO
Yes
Yes
NO to the first & YES to the second.

:hayley3


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Bubz said:


> Thoughts on the following matches people...
> 
> Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)
> Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)
> ...


Orton vs HHH (Last Man Standing) - ****1/4
Undertaker vs Batista (Cyber Sunday) - ****1/4
Undertaker vs Batista (Hell in a Cell) - ****
Udnertaker vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell) - ****
Undertaker vs Edge (Hell in a Cell) - ***1/2
Cena vs Orton (Summerslam) - ***3/4
Cena vs Orton (No Way Out) - ****


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Ok so those are pretty much widely considered good to great then. Cheers folks (Y).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't despise Edge, in fact I do like the guy, but him having a HIAC match with Undertaker that completely demolished Taker vs Batista did surprise me. Probably b/c one I had little to no interest in ended up being superb. Whereas the other I had tons of interest in and it was a chore to watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

never got into cena/orton matches. Breaking point 09 is the only one I would ever watch again and it more of a character driven match instead of actual wrestling

*Hbk/Jarrett IYH*
Never got to watch it and heard great reviews about it. Insanely good and underrated when discussing Shawn's best matches. Right up there with his other great matches. Was talking about it with a friend and he said something I noticed as well. Shawn didnt use a rest hold the whole match. Great fast paced match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wouldn't expect Shawn to bust out the rest hold being the exuberant face over heel Jarrett, but yeah, wonderfully fast paced contest. One of my favorites from both. That's for sure. Finish owned. The Roadie IMO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

still laughing a roadie's little dance in it, this may be disrespectful but who struted first, Jarrett or flair ? obviously flair


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Someone gimme some Mark Henry match recommendations, please? I'm bored


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> still laughing a roadie's little dance in it, this may be disrespectful but who struted first, Jarrett or flair ? obviously flair


It's been pointed out how notorious Jarrett was on being the next Ric Flair.



ATF said:


> Some Mark Henry match recommendations?


Check out his entire 2008. Mostly from the ECW transfer - on, tbf. 

It's a linear answer given, yet you'll find plenty of goodies there. Or all the matches vs Evan Bourne from 2009. (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He stole the STRUT


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Shit, Henry has matches with Bourne? I did not know this.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Me neither. Gonna need to check that out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Three matches in late May - Early June of 2009 on ECW. Right before both went to RAW.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

ATF said:


> Someone gimme some Mark Henry match recommendations, please? I'm bored


Check out the ECW Monster Mash Battle Royal

It's top notch :troll


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

obby said:


> Check out the ECW Monster Mash Battle Royal
> 
> It's top notch :troll


:troll






16 MILLION VIEWS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

4:20 of monster mashing action.

~!


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

SO MANY CLOTHESLINES YOU'LL NEVER HAVE TO GO TO THE LAUNDROMAT AGAIN


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bubz said:


> Thoughts on the following matches people...
> 
> Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)
> Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)
> ...


Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)- ***3/4
Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)- ****1/4
Taker/Batista HIAC- ****
Taker/Orton HIAC- ****
Taker/Edge HIAC- ****1/2
Orton/Cena (Summerslam 07 & NWO 08)- ***3/4 for both.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> Cody, Yeah, and Evan you guys see this ?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fizy6BsnMHU


Yeah it's awesome. That was the point from which Henry starting rolling. 



The Beast Incarnate said:


> YEAH, I'm not going to lie man but that Hardy-Henry House Show match fucking ruled the earth. It's amazing because here are to guys that just excel at working a simple match with simple roles, and they take it into a NO DQ environment and deliver an exciting but smart bout that only uses weapons when needed and not in a gratuitous way. Love, love, LOVE it as Mark & Matt have some ridiculous chemistry that might be some of the craziest/underrated that I've ever seen.
> 
> We need more Henry House Show matches in here STAT.


I found a couple other Henry house show footage that I shove on my youtube Watch Later. The worst thing ever is when you get somebody taping the entrances of a match that you really, really want to see.



ATF said:


> Someone gimme some Mark Henry match recommendations, please? I'm bored





Spoiler: MARK



v. TAJIRI 9/5/02
v. Michaels 11/3/03
v. Booker T 11/17/03, 11/24/03, Armageddon 03
v. Jericho 1/12/04
That World Title Battle Royal 1/13/06
v. Rey 1/20/06, 1/27/06, 5/5/06, 4/29/11 (FOUND THIS, BTW - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHEAcTYrjvg)
v. Taker 2/10/06, 4/7/06 (second match gets cut short, but is really fun and looks to be on its way t being as good as the first)
w/MNM v. Taker/Angle 2/17/06
w/MNM v. Angle/Orton/Rey 3/17/06
v. Lashley 4/28/06
v. Matt Hardy 5/19/06, 8/19/08, 9/26/08
v. Benoit 5/26/06
v. CM Punk 6/12/07
v. HHH 6/23/08
v. Finlay 9/16/08, 11/4/08
w/Christian v. Orton/Sheamus 5/13/11
v. Orton 5/20/11, 7/1/11, 10/10/11 (I dunno if all of these are THAT good, but I remember enjoying all of them and there's at least one I really, REALLY liked. I think it's 5/20/11)
v. Sheamus 8/26/11
v. Christian 9/23/11
v. John Morrison 10/3/11, 10/21/11 (I only remember one of these but they both gotta be worth a watch)
v. Zack Ryder 12/5/11



Everything I quoted was about Henry. Let the absolute lack of surprise shine through, people.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Bubz said:


> Thoughts on the following matches people...
> 
> Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07)
> Taker/Batista (Cyber Sunday 07?)
> ...


Orton/Trips (LMS No Mercy 07) - 10 out of fucking 10. :clap One of the best matches I've ever seen on PPV. I remember dying over basically every spot.

I've seen most of the others but I forgot my thoughts on them, I only marked for Edge returning during Batista/Taker from HIAC (was that from SS 2007?).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm making sure to watch Trips/Orton from No Mercy 2007. Not even sure when I saw that last.

Anyways, watched some Triple H/Rock matches for my project, and each match featured different versions of the two guys.

Triple H/Rock for the IC title on Thursday Raw Thursday when Triple H was the Conneticut Blueblood character, and Rocky Maivia was still a fresh character, having debuted just three months ago. Side note: This was also the night of Shawn's "Lost My Smile" promo where he dropped the title. This match was actually pretty good. Triple H was good at playing this character, and it a midcard gimmick and it wouldn't have taken him further than the IC title, but I liked how he embraced it. Good heel work from him. 

Triple H/Rock from Raw 1998 just before King of the Ring. Nothing to see here, but I think this was my favorite Triple H face run. DX was edgy, and he was good at playing the face. The match ended with a DX/Nation brawl and every referee trying to break it up. Side note: 

Finally, Triple H/Rock from Rebellion 1999. Triple H was a full fledged heel, and was defending the WWF title. Rock had become a full on face of course earlier in the year, and the two faced off in a cage match in Birmingham, England. This was a pretty entertaining match, which of course ended in a typical Attitude Era-clusterfuck. Rock escaped the cage after Triple H had knocked out Earl Hebner, so both guys are outside and Rock cuts a probably about the "jabroni-roody-poo-referee" and busted open Triple H with a chair and said it wasn't blood but "monkey piss running down his face". The two get back in the ring, and as Rock is almost out, British Bulldog comes down and puts him back in, then Shane McMahon tries to attack the Bulldog, but he gets taken out, THEN Patterson and Brisco run in and try to take on the Bulldog, THEN Chyna runs in and slams the door on Rock's face after he takes down Bulldog. Everyone's down, and as Rock tries to track down Triple H, Bulldog pulls him back in and the Game escapes with the title. CLUSTERFUCK.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This MOTHERFUCKING 76 hour work week is finally over so it's time to watch some much needed wrestling. I'm gonna ask this again:

Does anyone have a link for Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn from NXT that DOESN'T have a skip in the video? That shit really bothered me.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> This MOTHERFUCKING 76 hour work week is finally over so it's time to watch some much needed wrestling. I'm gonna ask this again:
> 
> Does anyone have a link for Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn from NXT that DOESN'T have a skip in the video? That shit really bothered me.


Assuming you have you XWT account in tact? Download the full show. Worth it all around. Especially for Cesaro vs Zayn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Royal Rumble 2007:*

Jeff Hardy & Matt Hardy vs MNM - ★★¾
- This has just been dragging on up to this point as a feud and I'm getting tired of it. The match is decent and there's some standard tag action that's on par with their match from December to Dismember but yeah, not exactly what you watch this show for. Hardy's win and we are one step closer towards the end of this lengthy feud.

Bobby Lashley vs Test - ★¾
- Not horrible but not good either. Gets enough time to run at barely below 10 but it is also rather boring and not much happens. Lashley sells a bad shoulder a bit and then there's a horrible count-out finish where Test just walks away. Made no sense whatsoever.

Batista vs Mr. Kennedy - ★★★½
- A very good match and another for Kennedy's streak of good matches since his 2006 return from injury. Great selling by Batista which doesn't happen that often and also very good leg work by Kennedy. In the end, both men look good in this and Kennedy is well protected as he has Batista pinned for several seconds while the referee is down. Good action and finish. And I guess the start of Batista's streak for solid in-ring matches too.

John Cena vs Umaga - ★★★★½
- What can I say that hasn't been said already about this? Just an awesome, all out brawl. Umaga with another excellent monster performance and Cena giving us one of his best babyface performances. He sells the ribs to perfection, times his comebacks very well and they work their moves into every part extremely well. It's funny how Cena seemed clueless just a few months earlier when controlling the pace of that Cyber Sunday match but suddenly here, he's got everything under control and it helps that Umaga is a hell of a worker for a big man. Some good spots too such as the announce table bump and Cena throwing the steps from the ring onto Umaga on the outside. Some will nitpick about the finish but I honestly didn't mind it. It's blatantly scripted but so are many other moves. Cena wins by choking Umaga out with the STFU using the ropes around Umaga's throat which makes him the last man standing at the count of 10.

The Royal Rumble - ★★★★¼
- A great Rumble match with plenty of star power and entertaining throughout. Unlike 2006, this one doesn't drag in the middle of portion and rarely does it feel like too many people are in the ring. This one is more like the 2004 Rumble minus all the story advancements from there. Then there's what everyone loves this for - the finishing sequence. After eliminating Rated RKO alone, HBK goes toe to toe with Undertaker to start off their awesome feud from this point. Seven great minutes with some good commentary and a good crowd as the hometown hero, Shawn Michaels is looking to win a third Rumble while Undertaker wants to finally get his title shot at Wrestlemania which he's waited years for. In the end, Taker finally gets his well-deserved Rumble victory and another classic Rumble comes to an end.

*Overall:* ★★★¾ out of ★★★★★ (A very good show that continues on the roll from New Year's Revolution. Starts off slow with two matches that were kind of filler but picks up for the rest of it with a solid World Title match and an excellent LMS match following it. The Rumble itself is also one of the best ever which makes for one great show. Certainly a huge step up from the terrible 2006 Rumble show where the only good part of it was a decent Rumble match.)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I need some logic to that Umaga/Cena finish tho, whether blatantly scripted or not.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've never found anything wrong with the finish.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

That's not the issue. Estrada removing the turnbuckle with a giant piece of metal so that Umaga can use the giant piece of metal attached to the turnbuckle is fucking retarded. At least have Umaga try to use the ropes or something.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Estrada using a heavy metal object to untie the buckle instead of just giving Umaga the heavy metal object is what people don't like about the finish. I think it could have been done better, but it doesn't ruin anything for me. In recent years we've seen people untie it with their own hands so IDK why they chose to execute it the way they did. Umaga using the BUTT OF DOOM to get the buckle lose would have made the match legit five stars. Imagine that shit.

Also I sooooo disagree with C2D on Hardys/MNM. I love that match and tbh think it's one of the best openers in WWE history.


I will 'Yeah1993ing' (as was sort of dubbed) WCW la Parka in a minute.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Nah, it doesn't ruin the match, but it's just a frickin strange way to go out.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah I checked out that shawn match you pmed me with razor. Great stuff and you forget how good the guy was in the 90s. 2000 michaels was still incredible and was still a shell of himself from the 90s


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

His return match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ not sure it was a August 94 match


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Cena-Umaga is around, ****3/4 for me. Spectacular match, and in irony sense, we were given 2 more great LMS matchs that year, in Taker-Batista & Orton-Hunter. 2007 = The year of Last Man Standing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

La Parka v. Saturn (Thunder 3/19/98)
Parka makes a ‘head into chair whilst holding the chair’ spot not look contrived and stupid, so that alone makes this good. It’s a shame the camera didn’t catch Parka taking a slide out of the ring properly, because that looked to be really cool. I’ve never given a crap about Saturn’s work, but he doesn’t look bad at all, he had a really nice spot where he suplex/superplexed Parka whilst on the second rope in the middle of the ring (not near the turnbuckles). If anything it makes me actually hopeful that the Goldberg matches around this time won’t be dragged down by him. Parka trying to work lucha mat-pin stuff with him was probably a bad idea, though.

La Parka v. Meng (Nitro 3/27/00)
So this had an odd story attached to it, an average looking hold for the finish and it went about two minutes. And I LOVE IT. There are just some match ups in wrestling that you don’t realise are dream matches for you until you see the two names on paper together. Parka and Meng fit that bill perfectly and you gotta love WCW for the ‘what if’ match ups being answered. You gotta kinda hate them because the matches never get to really reach their potential with all the restrictions, but, nevertheless, if not for WCW I wouldn’t have seen this. Parka has a gimmick sort of thing where some dubbed voice talks over the microphone for him, and this voice starts talking about his homies and shit, and Parka is playing along. Then the voice calls Meng Angela Davis (this was during Meng’s Huge Fucking Afro period), and Parka drops the mike and tries to tell the voice to shut up. Meng shoves palm after palm in his face and sells a chairshot perfectly for a thick-headed Islander. He stumble to the ground, but Parka shows the chair with a dent in it and on second attempt for a swing, Meng grabs a death grip (which looks kind of bad because Parka’s jacket is in the way) to win it.

La Parka v. Adrian Byrd (Saturday Night, late 1999 or early 2000)
Not sure I’ve ever heard of Byrd before. That’s one of the main things I love about watching random shit – finding stuff that’s totally foreign to me. Byrd kind of looked to me like Carlton from Fresh Price of Bel-Air, if he got really buff and stole Ezekiel Jackson’s head. He was OK ‘mechanically’, but ‘mechanics’ was basically all he was doing. You know when you watching Tough Enough or some sort of wrestling school thing and guys are practicing clotheslines and arm drags? Yeah, kind of looked like he was doing that. Parka is a guy who, no matter how bad a match is, will always be entertaining, and he kept things pretty interesting with his dancing. Taking off the glove so a palm would hurt more was a cool touch, and maaaan the bump on a dropkick where he slid down the apron looks pretty hurtful. It’s probably one of those things that looks more hurtful than it is, but that’s a huge plus in wrestling. You know what isn’t a huge plus in wrestling? WCW announcing. Yeah, keep talking about that Benoit v. Jarrett match that never even happened.

La Parka v. Dean Malenko (Saturday Night 12/27/97)
Tony Schiavone: “what I want to talk about here, is the arrogance of the nWo”. Of course it is. This was really fun, and between this, the Norman Smiley, Ohtani, Disco Inferno and Liger matches, I’ve been underestimating Malenko for a while. I mean I kinda have no time for a bunch of his lengthy matches and I would rather eat my own eyeballs on a skewer than ever watch the Hog Wild match with Benoit again, but he works so well in these short TV matches (the Disco match was even on PPV). He and Parka mess around on the mat and it’s surprisingly quick and spry. Parka gets a camel clutch and fishhooks Malenko’s cheek, which is badass. Wait…. Tony actually APOLOGISED for off-topic commentary. I’mma go feed the flying pigs in my backyard. For a short match this had a really neat finish run, too.

La Parka/Silver King v. Kendall Windham/Curly Bill (Saturday Night 10/2/99)
Curly Bill is Virgil/Vincent’s West Texas ******* name. I have nothing to say about the match. I could mention what happened, but it’d sound like simple play by play ‘reviewing’ and I don’t do that stuff. Silver King is FIP and eventually tags Parka in. The wrestling wasn’t terribly impressive, but for a seven minute match I have no real complaints. OK, well, one complaint – I’m pretty sure Virgil Irish whipping King into his own corner was the reason for the ‘hot’ tag. Why would you do that? 

La Parka v. Spyder (Saturday Night 7/17/99)
After a Google search I still know almost nothing about Spyder, but Tenay says that this is his debut. Turns out he was the lWo bodyguard who is now wrestling, and he seems competent. He takes a fine bump off of offense (and a cool one from a missed stinger splash…or whatever you might call it), but he's the kind of guy to bodyslam someone and then just walk around aimlessly as to say ‘yeah I bodyslammed someone’ or something. Parka’s selling makes this fun, and the end-part of the match where he trips Spyder who’s on the top rope to send him crashing to the floor was awesome as hell. 

La Parka/Psicosis v. Mortis/Wrath (Nitro 7/22/97)
Are you fucking *kidding* me? If there was EVER a WCW dream match. Parka takes a fucking corker of a bump off of a Wrath elbow (spins sideways almost 360), and Psicosis hits amazing dives no matter what. Parka then corkscrews to take Wrath out. Psicosis totally botches something from the top rope and crutches himself before going to the outside. Wrath and Mortis hit a powebomb/neckbreaker combo, and instead of breaking the pin, Parka goes outside to get a wooden chair for the post-match. He blasts Kanyon with it and struts with the two wooden pieces left, then takes a fucking SPLAT of an outside bump from a Wrath boot. This is wrestling.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Fluze said:


> Cena-Umaga is around, ****3/4 for me. Spectacular match, and in irony sense, we were given 2 more great LMS matchs that year, in Taker-Batista & Orton-Hunter. 2007 = The year of Last Man Standing.


That's... not irony.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Finally catching up on NXT, and Cesaro/Neville was 1st, which was pretty awesome. ***1/2 I'd give it.

Btw, what are your opinions on this "indie-hunt" the WWE has been going - more espefically Adam Cole, Mike Bennett, Samuray del Sol ( :mark: ), Davey Richards (  ) and Colt as a commentator?

Personally, it is a good initiative considering the number of indie guys currently in the roster: Punk, Bryan, Ambrose, Rollins, Bourne, Cesaro, Ohno, Neville, Zayn, Graves... If only they sent Sin Cara into NXT to adapt to the WWE style and repackaged him though.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Del Sol is coming?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They are in contract negotiations with all of those I mentioned, so I hope yeah.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Finally catching up on NXT, and Cesaro/Neville was 1st, which was pretty awesome. ***1/2 I'd give it.
> 
> Btw, what are your opinions on this "indie-hunt" the WWE has been going - more espefically Adam Cole, Mike Bennett, Samuray del Sol ( :mark: ), Davey Richards (  ) and Colt as a commentator?
> 
> Personally, it is a good initiative considering the number of indie guys currently in the roster: Punk, Bryan, Ambrose, Rollins, Bourne, Cesaro, Ohno, Neville, Zayn, Graves... If only they sent Sin Cara into NXT to adapt to the WWE style and repackaged him though.


I love Cole but he's really small. Like to me he comes off even smaller than Bryan does. I'm sure they could do something good with him though, the guy's only 23 and has nothing but upside. Great mic skills too. Del Sol's a fucking blast to watch and I think he'd do much better than Sin Cara has if they just take their time, especially since he's actually wrestled for an extended period here in the states. Bennett would thrive in the 'E, simple as that. Davey? Fuck off. Colt would be a badass commentator. I enjoyed him on EVOLVE 18.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Sol is legit. He'll amaze fans once he shows up.

Cole would be a good pick up but bad for the Indies. He's destined to be the new golden child with how good he is at such a young age. WWE can like his look, but I could go either way with where he stays. He just signed a new ROH contract so I doubt he's going anywhere anytime soon.

Colt was a miss by WWE and then some. Having him back in any role would appease me.

Bennett is tailor made for WWE. Almost certain he'll be signed.

Davey. Well, every company needs jobbers.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

La Parka/El Dandy/Psicosis v. SUWA/Magnum Tokyo/Shima Nobunaga (Nitro whoGIVESafuckwhen)
If la Parka, el Dandy and Psicosis are not the best trio in the history of wrestling……fuck….la Parka, el Dandy and Psicosis are the best trio in the history of wrestling. How could you *possibly* come up with a better team of three guys than that? I get the idea that if I watched more SUWA he’d be one of my favourite wrestlers of all time, and that’s because he’s a grade A dickhead. Unfortunately he doesn’t get to be the dickhead here, but you can see he still has personality. Parka ruled this. Tokyo goes for a dropkick and MID-DROPKICK, Parka kicks his fucking leg to make him tumble. Spectacular. Similarly Psicosis dropkicks the top rope when Nobunaga tries a springboard and Shima goes down. Dive train when people are flinging heads into barricades on impact, Parka takes a Psicosis bump on a turnbuckle, Psic takes the best bump from a top rope spin kick EVER. Bliss. This was soooo much fun.

La Parka/Ciclope v. Rick & Scott Steiner (Saturday Night 5/31/97)
Cool for 100 seconds or however long it was. Steiners throwing dudes around and Parka bumping big clotheslines will always be enjoyable. Parka cutting off Rick’s dog-ring-running (whatever the fuck) with an enzuigiri was probably the best part (and it was the first move in the match). Bit of an awkward ending. 

La Parka v. Buff Bagwell (Thunder 3/29/00)
Still during Parka’s ‘It’s Not Me’ promo period. The voice says Bagwell has a George Clooney haircut and says he’ll kick Bagwell’s “jacked up ass”. All while Parka drops the mic and pulls a sign from his jacket that reads “I’m sorry”, with “I’m not really saying this” on the other side. IDK why you’d book an angle like that. I mean every simpleton and lamebrain can tell it isn’t Parka on the mic; it makes the wrestlers look like brainless goofballs for believing it. OR DOES IT? Park gets Bagwell to believe him, does the ‘oh sheesh, oh thank you, I’m so glad you know now’ shtick, they hug, shake hands and embrace, and then Park LEVELS him. I think Heenan is right about him being a master ventriloquist. Parka was a pretty great bump machine here. He takes another Psicosis bump, does the ‘turned him inside-out’ sell of an elbow, and pretty much fucking spikes himself on his OWN split-legged moonsault. Heenan said it looked like he kind of speared Bagwell on the way down and if you can imagine a split-legged spear to a prone man’s arm, well that’s a pretty good way to describe it. I still don’t think I’m doing it justice. Bagwell sold the opening cheapshot shockingly well, but seemed kind of gassed, which really stands out in a match this short. Parka also tries to get out of a sunset flip by using his strut, by the fucking way. Fuck. This is why Park is the greatest.

La Parka/Silver King v. Bobby Eaton/Kenny Kaos (Saturday Night 1/9/99)
Do you know how many times I’ve thought to myself ‘I want to see la Parka and Bobby Eaton match up’? Zero. Do you know how much I want to see la Parka and Bobby Eaton match up now? A hell of a lot, and it delivers pretty well. Most guys will throw a clothesline to Park after he struts to them. Bobby Eaton just throws an amazing slap and shoves him toward the mat. Eaton was still an awesome seller in 1999, apparently, and it’s even more impressive when you consider the fact that’s he’s called on to work in a babyface tag team with a random Power Plant guy. Kaos was a fine big dude who wipes people out, and I wished Eaton played FIP for all of this before tagging him, because he seems like a natural hot tag guy (also Eaton’s selling rules enough to be FIP, which we saw in flashes here). Oddly enough there seemed to be, like, three two minute FIP spells (and one including Parka playing FIP…..). Why do that? Oh well, this got enough time to deliver something cool and it did. Park’s double team double stomp to Eaton was great.

La Parka v. Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 3/24/97)
Well he did it. La Parka finally did it. He broke me. I knew somewhere, some way, there was a la Parka spot that would break me. And it was here. He did it. I have no words for this. He catches Juvi’s attempt at a crossbody, and struts. He just struts. He just struts……with a fucking man..…in his arms. Honestly, this was an awesome five minute match, with awesome performances, from two awesome wrestlers. But I have no words for it. He broke me. I can never think of anything the same way again.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Del Sol vs. Cesaro. Oh my goodness.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Colt Cabana being in WWE again in any capacity would be awful. He is a mediocre wrestler 95% of the time. I also don't like his mic work and he is basically Sanrino Marella. I know I am in the minority here but I'm so glad they fired him a few years ago.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

someone asked me my top 5-6 bret matches and I have no clue why its this hard for me :lol

1)stone cold wm 13
2)owen wm 10
3)owen cage
4)kid raw 94
5)perfect ss 91

havent seen the iron man with Shawn in years


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1 - vs Austin WM 13
2 - vs Owen WM 10
3 - vs Bulldog SSlam '92
4 - vs Austin SS '96
5 - vs Owen SSlam '94
6 - vs Hennig SSlam '91

The Iron Man with Shawn would barely scratch my Top 30 Bret matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Del Sol :mark: 

Does anyone know if is signing is confirmed? 

Right now they picked up arguably THE MAN on the indies in Sami Callihan. A big loss for the indies for sure. 

Adam Cole has potential but, as others have mentioned, his size is a big problem. He seriously needs to bulk up. I don't care much for Colt tbh and never quite got the hype behind him. And as for Davey, I agree with Obfuscation. They could also pick up O Reilly and Edwards to join Davey while they're at it. 

Does anyone else also seem huge potential in Willie Mack? It's such a shame he doesn't know how to work properly, at least imo. I don't know, but I'm not a fan of the guy's work at all. He lets vanilla midgets toss him around like a featherweight and has no sense of timing when it comes to showing off his athletic ability. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the guy do a standing moonsault with no meaning behind it whatsoever.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So who is this Del Sol guy?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Smackdown from this week. Main event was awesome.



Spoiler: main event



*Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown, 21 June 2013

*Finally they managed to get it right this time. Raw match was kind of dull and brought down by a stupid non-finish but this time, even if the end is not decisive, it's much better. A couple of more minutes wouldn't hurt but they got enough to make it work. Orton dominates a lot of it and I like his work this time around. Other than some portions, he's not as methodical as usual and doesn't even do the predictable 5 moves of doom spot. Bryan is awesome as usual and shows passion with every move like always. I loved this one a lot, well paced, good use of moves and the whole structure of it. Bryan hits Orton with a suicide dive after a knee to the face on the outside and wins by count-out. End is pretty funny as he takes a mic and demands referee to restart it while Orton is just standing in the corner, trying hard not to laugh. ★★★¾


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*







*Rhyno vs Edge- King of the Ring 2001*

This is the Semi-Finals for the 2001 King of the Ring tournement. The winner meets Kurt Angle in the KOTR Finals. Rhyno makes his way to the ring and gets a solid reaction from the crowd. Rhyno signs are also spotted which is always great to see. Edge and Rhyno go back and fourth for a bit with Edge knocking Rhyno out of the ring. Rhyno hits Edge head-first onto the barricade. Edge takes Rhyno and throws him onto the barricade. Edge and Rhyno fight onto the entrance way with Rhyno throwing Edge into the barricade. Rhyno gets back inside the ring and rips off the second bottom turnbuckle. Rhyno takes Edge and Irish whips him onto the untangled turnbuckle with Edge hitting his rib-cage. Rhyno Irish-whips Edge into the corner turnbuckle and gives Edge a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno then follows it up with a running kick on Edge. Rhyno drags Edge for a cover but Edge kicks out at 2. Rhyno works on Edge's ribs and hits him with a flying splash. Rhyno goes for another cover but Edge kicks out at 2. Rhyno Irish whips Edge to the corner turnbuckle and runs toward him but Edge hits Rhyno with a kick to the face. Rhyno runs toward Edge again but Edge gives Rhyno a Flapjack onto the ropes. Edge hits Rhyno with an Atomic drop and follows it up with a clothesline. Edge goes up on the top rope but Rhyno knocks him down with Rhyno trying to give Edge a superplex but Edge takes Rhyno down with a powerbomb off the top rope. Edge goes for a cover on Rhyno this time but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Rhyno hits a Spinebuster on Edge. Rhyno goes to give Edge a Gore but Edge goes for a spear with their heads colliding with each other. Edge hits Rhyno with an Edgecution and goes for a cover. Edge gets the 123 and wins the match, advancing in the KOTR Finals. 

Great match this was with both men looking strong and putting up a fight. Loved the rib-work from Rhyno and Paul Heyman putting a lot of emphasis on it throughout the match instead of ignoring it. Also loved Edge and Rhyno going for a spear and a Gore but their heads colliding in the process. Despite the fact that Rhyno lost, he still looked strong here with the commentators bulding him up as a threat. Very good match and one of Rhyno's strong performances. *Rating:* ★★★1/4.


*Rhyno vs Test (c) for the WWF Hardcore title- RAW Is WAR 6/25/01 * 

This is a rematch from when Test captured the WWF Hardcore title from Rhyno due to interferences by Shane McMahon and Stacey Kiebler. This match takes place in good ole Madison Square Garden by the way. Rhyno gets inside the ring and hammers away punches on Test with the match starting. Rhyno Irish whips Test to the corner turnbuckle and gives him a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno gets out of the to bring out some weapons which consists of the usual trashcans, trashcan lids, and signs. Rhyno tries to bring the trashcan into the ring but Test knees the trashcan over Rhyno's face. Test brings in more trashcans and trashcan lids to the ring. Rhyno grabs a trashcan and tries to hit Test with it but Test ducks out of the way and goes for a big boot but Rhyno ducks out of the way as well with Rhyno throwing the trashcan at Test and going for a Gore only for Test ram Rhyno in the head with the trashcan. Test goes for a cover but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Rhyno throws Test over the barricade and brawl into the crowd area. Test gives Rhyno a suplex onto a guardrail as they head backstage. Test and Rhyno are now backstage and Test has the upperhand. Test places Rhyno on two tables next to each other and gives him a flying elbow drop with the two tables not even breaking an inch. Test goes for another cover on Rhyno but Rhyno kicks out at 2. Rhyno hits Test with a Gore to win the match and gains back the WWF Hardcore title.

Eh, a usual brawl this was. The tables spot where Test gives Rhyno a flying elbow drop with Rhyno placed onto the tables is a cool spot. Not really high on this match as I was with their Hardcore title match from Smackdown 6/14/01 as this one felt all over the place and didn't have a structure. Still a fun brawl but that's pretty much it. *Rating:* ★★1/4

After the match, Mike Awesome would take out Rhyno from out of nowhere with a powerbomb onto a placed ladder and win the match, also becoming the new WWF Hardcore champion. This was the last time Rhyno would ever hold on to the Hardcore title as he would never fight for it again.:mcgee1


*Rhyno vs Test- RAW Is WAR 7/2/01*

This is a rematch from last week on RAW Is WAR with Rhyno gaining back the Hardcore title from Test but Mike Awesome winning the Harcore title from Rhyno afterwards. As Test gets in the ring, Rhyno hammers away punches on him. Rhyno Irish whips Test to the corner turnbuckle but Test strikes him with an elbow. Test runs towards Rhyno but hits with a clothesline. Team WWF appears on the stage area and look on at the match. Rhyno Irish whips Test to the corner ropes and gives him a running shoulder thrust. Rhyno throws punches at Test to take him down but Test hits him with a Full Nelson Flapjack. Team WWF walks closer to the ring, surrounding the ring area. Test takes Rhyno down with a big boot. Some of the members interfere in the match with Bradshaw hitting Test with a clothesline. Test gets up and gets hit with a Gore from Rhyno, going for a pin and winning the match. Post-match, Team WWF gets inside the ring and attacks Test. 

Average match. A pretty good back and fourth between Rhyno and Test but the focus was more on Team WWF during the match along with the post-match attack on Test. *Rating:* ★★


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

A Rhyno project? Interesting.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Been watching the Masato Tanaka v Mike Awesome ECW series. I'm not that much of a fan of ECW, once you've seen one you've seen most of them imo but I loved the Tanaka/Awesome matches. It's just two big guys beating the piss out of one another. One Night Stand 05 is the best followed by 12/23 on TNN, November to Remember 99 and then Heatwave. Pretty sure they had a few more of TV but I don't have them on DVD.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

CHAIR SHOTS TO THE HEAD


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> someone asked me my top 5-6 bret matches and I have no clue why its this hard for me :lol
> 
> 1)stone cold wm 13
> 2)owen wm 10
> ...


Just letting you know that I'm gonna respond to your post from the Bret thread later. I just want to think about my own answers first.

And I didn't post that in my post in there, because I'm OCDish, and I like to keep review posts as just reviews.  [/imweirdlikethat]

C2D, I'm gonna be getting my Orton on soon. :ex:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Trips/Shawn from Summerslam for the 5th or 6th time ever, which is a lot for me. This match never gets old; just so good. It still gets ****1/2 from me. Shawn puts on a terrific babyface performance, and never mind it's his first match in over four years. 

I was thinking about Shawn and Triple H while this match was happening and how they've not many had good matches since the Summerslam 2002 bout, the lone great match being on Raw on 12/29/2003. Many people have said that these two try to make everything long and epic and don't usually end up succeeding. I think this is true, with the exception being their SS 2002 match. They just did so much great stuff in that match, that they tried to emulate that, but none of the other gimmick matches were nearly as good. There was nothing I hated, but after the Summerslam, there wasn't anything I thought matched it.

My ratings for their matches:

Summerslam 2002 - ****1/4
Armaggedon 2002 - ***
Raw (12/29/2003 - ****1/2
Royal Rumble 2004 - ***1/4
Bad Blood 2004 - ***1/2


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*That's irrelevant*, I'd be interested to see your thoughts on the Rhyno/Raven hardcore match. I found it to be really short yet really good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> C2D, I'm gonna be getting my Orton on soon. :ex:


I'll be looking forward to it. 

My top 100 list for him is progressing.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Rah said:


> *That's irrelevant*, I'd be interested to see your thoughts on the Rhyno/Raven hardcore match. I found it to be really short yet really good.


A REALLY, really fun match that was. ★★★1/2 for it. I had a blast with that match. Fun usage of weapons with the shopping cart along with the trashcans being used in a creative manner. The usage of weapons made complete sense throughout the match and suited the story of the match perfectly. It felt like both men were trying to one-up each other with the usage of weapons rather than the match being a wild, chaotic brawl which was the usual for these type of matches in the WWE. I hold this on par with Raven vs Kane vs Big Show at WrestleMania X-Seven as far as top Hardcore matches go.

Rhyno had some pretty fun Hardcore matches overall in 2001. I recommend checking out his Hardcore title defense against Jericho on RAW 4/30/01 and against Test on Smackdown. Fun stuff.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't stop watching.

La Parka v. Ice Train (Nitro 2/3/97)
I do not remember Teddy Long eve being this fat. Fun heavy v. cruiser match, where the cruiser doesn’t actually look that much smaller than the heavy. Park bumps nicely for Ice Train’s stuff, and Ice Train is fine enough offensively. Train has a beautiful standing splash, too. 

La Parka v. Ice Train (Nitro 2/24/97)
Park must have watched the other match and thought ‘you know what Adolfo? That was OK, but let’s really hit home this time’. This was much better. It had a thing of Park trying to get Train down with spin kicks, but Train just had too much power to be too phased by most of it. Then Train’d WIPE Parka out with a clothesline, and Park bumped big for it. Hell, his bumping her was better in general than in the first match. The top rope spin kick looked better, the corkscrew was hit more cleanly, the crossbody catch was smoother (though the first match having a near-deadlift was badass), Park jumping Train at the beginning was a better start, and hell, even Train’s splash (which he calls ‘Tran Wreck’) looked better. It was like a standing Superfly splash. Great shit.

La Parka/Silver King v. Villano IV & V (Saturday Night 1/29/00)
What’s with the weird tag structure in WCW? I mean crap I got la Parka bumping big for Villano IV here so I can’t complain about anything, but these tags are oddly put together. We get Silver King playing FIP, and then Parka kind of tags in and wrecks himself on a corkscrew, and then they go back to King being FIP. Seems bizarre that you wouldn’t have King play FIP, then have Park tag in and destroy shit. He won with like, one move, as well…..and I’m pretty sure he never tagged in. Again, I can’t complain, because this was flat out awesomely fun. 

La Parka v. Glacier (Nitro 1/27/97)
Well this ruled. Glacier blocks Park’s strikes with karate-like movements after Park tries to get him to agree to bow. Parka’s shit looks awesome here – the spin kick, the corkscrew, the piledriver, all great. GREAT spot near the end where Park is sitting on the top turnbuckle facing the outside, and Glacier pulls him so Park goes face-first into an open chair. Glacier’s a guy who I think looks shockingly impressive every time I see him, to the point where it isn’t really a shock any more. I think I need to watch more of him. 

La Parka v. Sid Vicious (Saturday Night Mid-1999)
Like a minute long, but Park is one of the most charismatic wrestlers of all time, so you can count on him to do at least one cool thing in every match. Here he throws a clothesline to Sid, and sells his own arm as if someone swung it into a basketball post. Sid no-sells a dropkick and then hits two finishers to win. 

La Parka v. Psicosis (Spring Stampede 4/19/98)
I hate WCW PPV crowds. I watched Big Bubba v. John Tenta from GAB96 a couple of months ago and thought it was an awesome slugfest. The crowd was dead as shit. This was pretty awesome in its own right and I didn’t hear a peep from the audience. These two start by stiffing the fucking fuck out of each other with palm chops, and then hit what is basically a back and forth finish run for six-eight minutes. Few looney spots, like the Psicosis was on the apron, grabbed Park’s leg (who was on the turnbuckle…STRUTTING), and crutching him. Park also tumbled when Psic cost him a move while he was on the ropes. The dives were looney as well, naturally. Psicosis hits a dive as good as anybody in history. Parka using the ‘no you don’t’ hair-pull-up pin was lame, but if this happened with a hot (or even somewhat non fucking dead) syndicate audience, it’d probably be more remembered as a super match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Does anyone else also seem huge potential in Willie Mack? It's such a shame he doesn't know how to work properly, at least imo. I don't know, but I'm not a fan of the guy's work at all. He lets vanilla midgets toss him around like a featherweight and has no sense of timing when it comes to showing off his athletic ability. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the guy do a standing moonsault with no meaning behind it whatsoever.


I loved Mack in his big breakout match against Roddy but ever since then he's done jack shit. It's the same 3 or 4 moves every match and some really sloppy shit throughout the rest. Haven't seen his match with Steen from Threemendouss III yet though.



The Lady Killer said:


> So who is this Del Sol guy?


Samuray Del Sol. Burst onto the indie scene last year. Guy does some seriously amazing shit in the ring. Youtube him and watch some clips.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yay another long ass 1998 PPV review from myself. I've been slowing down a lot because of uni but that's nearly over for the semester so I intend on getting right back into it now. I enjoy doing these reviews as it ensures I actually watch the PPV rather than tune out for most of it.

*Judgment Day 1998 review
*
*Match 1: Al Snow vs. Marc Mero **1/2*
Double J comes out to try and get into the match for some reason but fails. They go back and forth with Jacqueline giving some distractions from ring side and Snow takes some occasional advice from Head. This ends up being a decent opener but the crowd isn’t very into it. Snow wins when he hits the Snow Plow after countering Mero’s TKO.

*Match 2: DoA vs. LoD 2000 **
DoA have Paul Ellering with them and LoD have Droz for a six man tag. Wonderful. I remember writing about a DoA/LoD match at Fully Loaded, the PPV before Summerslam. I remember giving it no stars and saying it was absolutely awful just like every other match they had. Well, this is a little better than that. Not much better though. This ‘feud’ if you can really call it that has been beyond terrible, and has gone on for pretty much all of 1998. It has been the same thing over and over again. Same boring ass teams, same boring matches. I’ll give it a star for actually being a competent match this time around. Droz gets the pin after Hawk and Animal hit the Doomsday Device. Hawk looks mad that he stole the win. Who cares? I’m sure this will drag on for another 10 months.

*Match 3: Light-heavyweight Championship: Christian vs. Taka Michinoku (c) **3/4*
Ha! Pretty sure Taka has defended that title at most twice in his 10 month reign. Somehow Christian gets a shot, even though he just debuted. Not that it matters really as the title already meant nothing 2 weeks after it was introduced. The match is good, it picks up after Taka is sent over the top rope and lands straight on the floor. They go back and forth a bit, Taka tries to hit a Michinoku Driver but Christian rolls through into a cradle and wins the title. I have to take a bit off the score as the crowd is still just dead. Can’t blame them though, unfortunately a lot of the undercard matches on WWF 1998 PPVs were meaningless and came out of nowhere, giving the audience no reason to care. Don’t forget this is Chicago, this should be a much better crowd.

*Match 4: Val Venis vs. Goldust ****
Finally a match the crowd can actually care about. I must admit, this has been a surprisingly decent feud between these two with Venis stealing away Terri, after Dustin became sick of Val’s vulgarity and lewd acts. The match starts as a bit of a brawl, but becomes more of a straight wrestling match as Venis targets his arm. Goldust hits a nice superplex but then misses an elbow drop. They exchange sleeper holds and then Goldust begins on the offence. Terri starts yelling at Goldust but he grabs his crotch and thrusts in her direction. He dodges an attack From Venis and as the ref is distracted by Terri, Goldust kicks Val between the legs and pins him. Good match but perhaps a bit too slow.

*Match 5: European Championship: X-Pac vs. D-Lo Brown (c) ***1/4*
Pretty fun match that the crowd was invested in. D-Lo was in control for a while. X-Pac failed to hit the Bronco Buster a couple of times. The first time, D-Lo stuck a foot up and hit X-Pac squarely in the genitals. Great counter. Eventually X-Pac hit the move to a loud reaction from the crowd. The ref got knocked out and Chyna got in a cheap shot but D-Lo was still in it. Mark Henry came out to harass Chyna and put the ref back in the ring. X_Pac ends up hitting his X-Factor finisher after D-Lo jumped off the top rope. He gets a big pop after he pins D-Lo and becomes the new European Champion. This was a surprisingly good match. They worked well with each other. Maybe the finish was a little overbooked, but then what wasn’t at this time? Either way it was a good, fun match.

The Headbangers interrupt Michael Cole while he’s talking about Austin backstage. They talk about what when they broke their boom box over Road Dogg’s head and then question the New Age Outlaws being the tag team champions when they spend most of their time tag teaming each other. Ouch! These guys are goofy as hell but I like them.

*Match 6: Tag Team Championships: The New Age Outlaws (c) vs. The Headbangers ***
The Headbangers interrupt the promo bit that the Outlaws do before each match. The Headbangers take control early on, Billy Gunn leads the crowd in shouting ‘Suck it’ which one of the Headbangers responds to with lifting up his kilt. This is an okay match but it moves too slowly. Eventually the Outlaws come back and start taking control however things take a turn and start looking bad for them, however Road Dogg comes in and smashes one of the Headbangers over the head with a boom box. They are disqualified but still retain the titles. It was a solid match but got a little boring at times.

Mankind and Socko have an interview with Cole. Strange interview.

*Match 7: Intercontinental Championship: Ken Shamrock (c) vs. Mankind ****
They spent a while trying to get the better of each other as Shamrock started targeting the arm that Mankind uses for the Mandible Claw. They go outside and Mankind grabs a steel chair but the ref takes it from him. But then Shamrock grabs it and wacks Foley in the face with it right in front of the ref. This is not a no disqualification match. I guess it’s possible that the ref won’t let Shamrock disqualify himself to retain the title. They don’t make it very clear though. Anyway the beat each other up a bit more and Mankind hits the diving elbow off the apron. He then runs at Shamrock on the outside but Shamrock counters with a powerslam and Mankind’s legs land on the steps. I hate when he takes bumps on the steps. Shamrock drags him into the ring and applies the ankle lock. Mankind won’t tap and is fighting against the pain by punching himself in the face. Then he gives himself the Mandible Claw and makes himself pass out! So Shamrock wins but Mankind didn’t tap. Great finish. This was a pretty entertaining match. It went 14 minutes, just like the previous tag title match but it went by much quicker. After the match Shamrock looks irate, he wanted to make Mankind tap. He starts attacking the ref and Mankind gets up and puts the Mandible Claw on him.

Backstage Michael Cole is talking about something but Big Bossman (who showed up on the previous Raw) tells Cole to leave before he shoves his nightstick up his ass.

Mark Henry comes out to the ring and recites some poetry for Chyna. That’s what he does.

*Match 8: Mark Henry vs. The Rock *1/2*
The Rock comes out to a very good reaction. His popularity is soaring at this point in ’98. The Nation disbanded a little while ago. The Godfather started doing his own thing and D-Lo and Mark Henry turned on The Rock. Last week on Raw they attacked him during the main event tag team match. The Rock takes it to Henry early on but Henry soon takes control. Henry has him in a chokehold but Rock mounts a comeback giving him a DDT followed by a People’s Elbow, which the crowd loves. D-Lo comes out for a distraction and Henry hits a splash and pins him while D-Lo holds his legs down. Doesn’t last very long and isn’t terrible. Mark Henry was made to look decent here however The Rock was building heaps of momentum so losing here doesn’t make the most sense.

Video package chronicles the McMahon/Austin rivalry and Taker and Kane’s involvement. Stone Cold is the referee of the main event to decide the new WWF champion after it was vacated at the previous PPV when in a triple threat match Kane and Undertaker pinned Austin at the same time. However if a winner isn’t decided, McMahon will fire Austin.

*Match 9: WWF Championship: Kane vs. The Undertaker w/ Steve Austin as Referee **
Before the match starts Austin has words for Kane and Undertaker and then flips them both off. Austin does some interesting things early on. Taker gets Kane down and pins him, Austin goes to count, raises his hand but doesn’t bring it down. Kane pins Taker, and Austin tries a fast count. They take the fight to the outside. Austin offers a cable to choke Kane with but Taker grabs a chair instead. He then works on Kane’s leg for a while. A long while. A really long while. Wow this is really dragging. Just like the main event at the previous PPV, though maybe worse. The crowd is getting restless. Finally something happens as Taker and Kane start beating up Austin for some reason, then turn back to fighting each other. Now Paul Bearer comes out with a chair and hits Kane in the back with it. Taker smashes Kane in the head with it and pins him but Austin is up and won’t count it. He gives Taker a Stunner and hits him with a chair. Both men are down and Austin does a double 3-count, and declares himself the winner. 

Austin calls out Vince, challenging Vince to fire him. Austin goes to the back to look for him but can’t and comes back to the ring and taunts him. The screen above the entranceway lifts up and we see Vince behind some protective glass. Somebody throws a shirt or something at him. McMahon says that Austin fired. People are throwing stuff at Vince. Austin says this isn’t the last you’ll see of him and says goodbye to the fans by drinking a few beers.

Well that was an interesting main event. The stuff with Austin was entertaining, too bad it bookended about 10 straight minutes of boredom. It’s a shame considering Taker and Kane had some good matches, namely at Wrestlemania 14 and Unforgiven. Also why the hell did Taker and Kane beat down Austin if they were still going to fight each other and expect him to call a winner? That makes no sense. This match doesn’t really deserve more than 1/5.

This was a decent show. There was nothing particularly great but there was nothing bad either. Most of the matches were actually good which is not so common for 1998 WWF PPVs. The main event lets the show down a bit though. The match was pretty boring for the most part but at least the angle surrounding it was entertaining and leaves us with Austin fired from the company. It’s a pretty good cliffhanger to get people to tune into Raw the next night. So yeah, it’s a shame that the main event let the show down so much but it’s still a solid PPV. *6.5/10*


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Silverthorn said:


> That's... not irony.


Shut...... up.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^I feel like I remember that being one of the better received Ken Shamrock matches.

He had so much talent, but never really registered for me. It's a shame. I feel like he could have been elevated, if he engaged in a monster feud. He had a lot of skill.



Choke2Death said:


> I'll be looking forward to it.
> 
> My top 100 list for him is progressing.


How far into it are you?

Will be helpful for me, when watching matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I fucking hated that Shamrock/Mankind match. The thing with the chair on the outside was pretty stupid and the crowd didn't care about that weird finish at all. Think I gave it like * 1/2.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> So who is this Del Sol guy?


A rather breathtaking young prospect that _*was*_ on the Indie scene. He's got a pretty badass look. Hoping WWE can keep the mask on THIS guy. Generico proved to be ok without it, but this guy is better off with the mask. He can be the guy that Sin Cara was supposed to be.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

He's almost certainly keeping the mask with Rey being gone and Del Sol being Mexican. They'll probably say "he's always loved lucha and Mysterio so you should cheer him".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hey, that's an easier option than forcing Sin Cara or even Del Rio down people's throats. Del Sol to be the next Mysterio in terms of wrestling style & demographic. I have no objections.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

whats the general consensus on sin cara around these parts, I been here for year and ive never heard us talking about him


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> whats the general consensus on sin cara around these parts, I been here for year and ive never heard us talking about him


He's shit.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I fucking hated that Shamrock/Mankind match. The thing with the chair on the outside was pretty stupid and the crowd didn't care about that weird finish at all. Think I gave it like * 1/2.


Really? I thought it was actually a pretty good match despite the chair shot. They went at a nice pace and built to the finish really well too. I think the crowd was maybe a little confused by it. They reacted to it but they weren't dead either.

LilOlMe: Definitely agree with that. He won King of the Ring which should have done more for him. He was really over at one point too. I think the whole thing involving him, Steve Blackman, Dan Severn and Owen Hart should have been more heated than what it was. It also got a little confusing with who was allied with who and I think many fans stopped caring around then. Shame really. At this point he's still doing well for himself but I feel like he should be in a better position than where he is.

As for Sin Cara, I like him. As some have said before, he probably shouldn't have been moved up to the main roster so quickly. He needed more time to develop. I think he's a great talent and with time could have been a good mid card act and even an IC champion or something. The injuries have really hurt his spot in the company. Also the Sin Cara ***** angle should have lead to more than Sin Cara being in the same spot and Hunico (an even better wrestler) abandoned on Superstars every week.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I like Sin Cara too.

He's... not _that_ bad.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Twisted14 said:


> LilOlMe: Definitely agree with that. [Shamrock] won King of the Ring which should have done more for him. He was really over at one point too. I think the whole thing involving him, Steve Blackman, Dan Severn and Owen Hart should have been more heated than what it was. It also got a little confusing with who was allied with who and I think many fans stopped caring around then. Shame really. At this point he's still doing well for himself but I feel like he should be in a better position than where he is.


I think that he was also hurt by them enabling him to talk on the mic. He wasn't good at it, and I feel like he could have been sold as a silent assassin type. It would have contributed to his mystique, and I think that he could have gotten over massively that way.

Such a missed opportunity.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea im ashamed to say sin cara not that bad to me


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Why ashamed? I won't say he's a great worker or anything b/c he's not, but he's fun to watch when in the ring with the right guy. Take for example the tables tag match at TLC 2012, which is flat out awesome and he showed there what he can do.

I think they didn't give him the time he needed to adapt to the WWE style and most wrestlers on the roster can't support his moveset or keep up with his style of wrestling, which is a problem.

I'd definitely take him over the likes of MIDCARD KING KOFI


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rhodes Scholars/Mysterio & Cara tables match is fun as hell. (Y)






He's got some interesting moves.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> He's shit.


(Y)



Silverthorn said:


> I'd definitely take him over the likes of MIDCARD KING KOFI


You win me over with this argument in the lesser of two evils. Kofi is the worst.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I do enjoy his 6 min smackdown matches and have watched a fair few in the last couple of days


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE are using their noggins in putting Sin Cara in the ring with Cesaro. They know that combo is the best bet for having him actually in a good match. He's still rather awful _(I even disliked him in Japan & Mexico prior to WWE)_ but hey, if WWE find ways to hide the negatives, then I'll take it.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I guess I don't dislike that many wrestlers.

Chuck Palumbo tho. Fuck him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't mind Chuck Palumbo. His return managed to have good matches vs Finlay & Matt Hardy. The biker gimmick was pretty crappy. Can't deny that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Silverthorn said:


> I think they didn't give him the time he needed to adapt to the WWE style and most wrestlers on the roster can't support his moveset or keep up with his style of wrestling, which is a problem.


He kind of stunk in Mexico as well, tbh. It sure as shit isn't his opponents fault his matches are usually mediocre. I don't think he's *SO* bad to the point where he can't be hidden in a good tag match, but when I hear his music play I get legitimately disappointed that someone better isn't getting his air time. I wouldn't call him good at all....not even close, really.


I used to hate Palumbo (I flipped him the double bird at the house show I went to, and I'm pretty sure he was looking directly at me. Kind of feel bad for that. :lmao), but it's been so long since I've looked at his shit that I can't comment on him. I thought he showed potential in the Scott Steiner match I watched months ago.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

It's his fucking face. Fury-inducing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm so glad to know I'm not the only guy who thinks that way.

Enter why I want to slap Big E. Langston.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spoiler: g


































:mark: 


Yeah, I get that. I hate a guy Kennedy/Anderson because sucks at everything and is annoying, but if he looked like, say, Chris Masters or somebody else, I'd hate him a little less than I do.



Spoiler: Some. Body. Fucking. Punch. Him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Should have posted Langston. He looks like a Disney Country Bear come to life.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That's kind of awesome, actually. :lol:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Spoiler: g


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only fuels the fires inside me to hate him even more.

That dumbass.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck Palumbo and his sloppy ass.

While searching around on YT, I found this gem of a video. Though his rankings are *terrible* (but I do agree with #1), it's a fun way to spend an hour out here:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No way I'd agree to putting Undertaker vs Triple H over Cena vs Lesnar.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It is a guilty pleasure of mine, my personal agreement, since considering my expectations Taker/HHH III blew me away, and its one of my personal favourites. But I have both it and Cena/Lesnar at *****, so.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not sure I'd have that Taker/HHH over Cena/Rock from the same night, tbh. 



Taking a little break from Parka for now. Last night I got bored, went through various listings and stuff I had, put pencil to paper and came up with US wrestlers and tag teams I want to watch random things of on stream sites. I came up with (if I counted it right) – 105 (BABY STEPS), and it’ll be a growing list. I’m sticking with the ‘must watch at least ten matches until moving to next person’ rule, though I’ve decided to ditch the order of which I watch them (b/c, well, 105 fucking guys). I’ll decide who to watch based on mood, or whoever interests me most at the very moment (so, mood). Next it is time for “Mr.” Masa Saito~! This is a guy who pretty much blew me away in 80s New Japan, and I have zero recollection of anything he did in the US. I’ll probably post it in the Classic Section thread, so if anyone wants to check it out, well, there...be.......it. Eventually, sometime. There. I might post it in here, IDK.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'm sad that we never got a proper program between Piper and Savage. Would of been perfect for the Golden era.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Is profightdb.com down for everyone else? I haven't been able to get on the site in a few days.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Down for me too. I'm managing thanks to myself relying on Cagematch more and more these days. Do miss the Opponents/Partners selection from Profight. Comes in handy so often.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Started my Undertaker 2009 project last night :mark: be on the look out for January and February match reviews


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

One guy who's always popped up in name (but not in memory) is Savio Vega.

Any performances/feuds of note that I should get in to, or was his performance in WWE so lacklustre I don't remember him for a reason?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Savio is one of those guys I think deserves a better look at. I won't lie and say I've seen a lot of him (though I've seen enough....I've just kind of 'forgotten' about it, like you have), but the impression he gives off to me has always been 'not really good, not bad, just solid and acceptable'. Some wrestlers don't really stand out or catch eyes unless you got out of your way to look at them. Still, Savio has always felt more good than bad to me, and he's someone who I think it'd be be cool to really see in more 'depth'. Like the Rhino thing that the dude with the Cena avatar has been doing ITT (I usually go by avatars and not names....you know who you are. ); Rhino's not really ever looked at or spoken about. I actually considered adding Savio to the list of fools I want to check out, but ultimately left him off. I wanna watch him one day, anyway. Never seen him outside of WWF, either.

You've seen the strap match with Austin though, right? Vega sure as diddly isn't standing out in that because Austin shoves in a mega-great performance, but it's a must-watch. I'd say it was borderline as good as anything Shawn did that year other than Mind Games (and that was Shawn's 1996 - his best singles year). Might just be me, but I was blown away by how well it held up last year. The NWO98 tag is awesome, too. Even if, again...not really 'Savio' match. Hell, he wasn't even supposed to be in it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> How far into it are you?
> 
> Will be helpful for me, when watching matches.


Just got to rewatch some matches that I haven't seen in a long time and also plenty of stuff from 2007, 2009 and 2010 that I need to check out to form an opinion. Already have over 100 matches lined up at ★★★+ in rating so filling the list is not a problem for me whatsoever. It's more a matter of getting the bottom part of it correctly.



Forever Unchained said:


> Is profightdb.com down for everyone else? I haven't been able to get on the site in a few days.


It's down for me on a daily basis recently but then after a few time refreshing, I manage to get it working.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Thoughts on RAW 2011 matches such as Bourne, Kingston, Cena, Sheamus, Cena and Ryan vs Ziggler, Otunga, Swagger, ADR, Christian and Rhodes (damn it was long); Miz, Christian and Truth vs Riley, Cena and Orton; Myserio vs ADR vs Punk; etc?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Savio is one of those guys I think deserves a better look at. I won't lie and say I've seen a lot of him (though I've seen enough....I've just kind of 'forgotten' about it, like you have), but the impression he gives off to me has always been 'not really good, not bad, just solid and acceptable'. Some wrestlers don't really stand out or catch eyes unless you got out of your way to look at them. Still, Savio has always felt more good than bad to me, and he's someone who I think it'd be be cool to really see in more 'depth'. Like the Rhino thing that the dude with the Cena avatar has been doing ITT (I usually go by avatars and not names....you know who you are. ); Rhino's not really ever looked at or spoken about. I actually considered adding Savio to the list of fools I want to check out, but ultimately left him off. I wanna watch him one day, anyway. Never seen him outside of WWF, either.
> 
> *You've seen the strap match with Austin though, right*? Vega sure as diddly isn't standing out in that because Austin shoves in a mega-great performance, but it's a must-watch. I'd say it was borderline as good as anything Shawn did that year other than Mind Games (and that was Shawn's 1996 - his best singles year). Might just be me, but I was blown away by how well it held up last year. The NWO98 tag is awesome, too. Even if, again...not really 'Savio' match. Hell, he wasn't even supposed to be in it.


I actually cannot remember that. Literally nothing of his work. I remember reading a few cards and then some reviews and he constantly popped up. When I streamed an older Raw I noticed him on it, and I do recognise him which makes it weirder. I've finally finished term so I've got three weeks of holiday in which I planned to do a Choshu project but I'm sure I can slip, at least, that match (if not a good few more) of Savio in if you're presenting it as _that good_.

I had assumed him to simply be completely "there", in terms of talent, if I had forgotten him. But the whole glossed over notion is quite large in this sport. Everyone has their favourites along with other notable mentions, with a lot overlapping between posters, yet I wouldn't be surprised if there's a list of matches from a rather overlooked individual that could easily be held highly.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Taking a little break from Parka for now. Last night I got bored, went through various listings and stuff I had, put pencil to paper and came up with US wrestlers and tag teams I want to watch random things of on stream sites. I came up with (if I counted it right) – 105 (BABY STEPS), and it’ll be a growing list. I’m sticking with the ‘must watch at least ten matches until moving to next person’ rule, though I’ve decided to ditch the order of which I watch them (b/c, well, 105 fucking guys). I’ll decide who to watch based on mood, or whoever interests me most at the very moment (so, mood). Next it is time for “Mr.” Masa Saito~! This is a guy who pretty much blew me away in 80s New Japan, and I have zero recollection of anything he did in the US. I’ll probably post it in the Classic Section thread, so if anyone wants to check it out, well, there...be.......it. Eventually, sometime. There. I might post it in here, IDK.


Yeah, I MUST SEE THIS LIST OF GUYS, I have kind of hit a rut in wrestling in general besides early 2000s Takayama lately


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Am watching some Chris Jericho. I've never been that hot on him though. His matches with Rocky were excellent, they hada good little routine together back in 2001. The 2008 & 2009 fueds with HBK & Mysterio were his best series of matches though the LMS against HHH and the ladder with Benoit are easily in his Top 5.

I just read his book Undisputed and found it quitee boring...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tanner1495 said:


> Yeah, I MUST SEE THIS LIST OF GUYS, I have kind of hit a rut in wrestling in general besides early 2000s Takayama lately


It's 105 people/tags long, US stuff only (because they tend to have shorter matches, and I can watch random TV matches). I guess I'm going after stuff that WWE owns (or places like CWA Memphis). Basically whatever I can post in this and/or the classic section.



Spoiler: BIG



Henry (again)
Goldberg (again)
Parka (again)
Yokozuna (again)
Mike Enos (again)
HHH (again - to be fair I only watch three matches and got tired of it)
Too Cool
Eric Embry
Doink
Faces of Fear
Tito Santana
PG-13
Owen & Yoko
Owen & Koko
Umaga
Juvi
Bam Bam
Doom
Bossman/Bubba
Wrath & Mortis
Andre
Sgt. Slaughter
Wahoo
Larry Zbyszko
DDP
Magnum TA
UWF Steve Williams
Kamala
Eddie Gilbert
Norman the Lunatic
TAKA
Saito
the Masked Superstar
Ivan Koloff
Shane Douglas
Bob Orton
Bundy
Patera
Chavo Sr.
Chavo Jr.
Ron Garvin
Tully
Killer Khan
Furnas & Kroffat
Buzz Swayer
the Patriot
Ken Shamrock
One Man Gang
Bubba Ray
Ian Rotten
Kaz Hayashi
Bunkhouse buck
Race
Steamboat & Youngblood
Pat Patterson
WWF DiBiase
Martel
Rikishi/Fatu
Pat Tanaka
the Acolytes/APA
Val Venis
Little Guido/Nunzio
Barry Horowitz
Sabu
Whipwreck
Rude
Duggan
Adonis
Nasty Boys
Jake Roberts
Chris Adams
Curt Hennig
Earthquake
WCW Villanos
the Moondogs
Evan Bourne
Piper
Noble
Taker
Orndorff
Koko Ware
the Freebirds
Corino
Candido
Al Snow
Jeff Hardy
Dutch Mantel
Hulk Hogan
Bradshaw/JBL
Super Crazy
2010 Dolph Ziggler
2010 Sheamus
Lesnar
Blue Blazer
Verne Gagne
Paul London
MNM
Nick Bockwinkel
Windham
Todd Morton
Tajiri
Greg Valentine
Too Cold Scorpio
Festus/Gallows
Haku/Meng



Not as much of a bitch to type out as I thought it'd be.  These are guys I want to look at for one reason or another. Curiosity, revisiting, hearsay, b/c I love them, they looked good to me once or twice and I want to see more, etc. I'll add people to it if anybody has any recs. It's a growing list no matter what. I still don't know if I actually plan to rub people off of it. I guess if I watch enough and go 'ah this dude sucks', then I won't bother seeing any more.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I didn't have cable during the alliance era. I can now watch every Raw from then and I am excited. I just watched Buff Bagwell's one and only WWE match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Just got to rewatch some matches that I haven't seen in a long time and also plenty of stuff from 2007, 2009 and 2010 that I need to check out to form an opinion. Already have over 100 matches lined up at ★★★+ in rating so filling the list is not a problem for me whatsoever. It's more a matter of getting the bottom part of it correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> It's down for me on a daily basis recently but then after a few time refreshing, I manage to get it working.


Do you mean there's stuff from '07, '09', & '10 that you've never seen before? That must be cool to discover new stuff from one of your faves.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just rewatched what is probably Benoit's and Raven's most underrated/overlooked match in their respective careers.

*Chris Benoit vs. Raven (3/16/98)*



Spoiler: youtube vid











This match occurs the day after that terrific triple threat match at Uncensored between DDP, Benoit, and Raven, which reminds me that I need to revisit my DDP project. The stipulation here is that the winner of this match gets to face DDP for the US Title at Spring Stampede.

As we've all heard millions of times, Benoit is among the greatest ever at technical/ground based wrestling, but I have always felt that he is just as good when he is brawling or in a hardcore environment. This match is exactly just that. Raven's Rules allow us to do whatever anyone wants outside the ring, and what makes this even better is that this match takes place in one of those WCW venues that has a pool surrounding the ring. A majority of the match (well it really is a fight) occurs outside of the ring, but unlike those annoying Attitude Era brawls, these guys don't look like they're stalling by hitting each other with soft punches. Benoit gives some stiff shots as usual, which sells just how heated this incredible US Title feud was.

The thing that makes this match so special from any other Benoit match is the fact that this is one of the very few times that we ever see Benoit lose his cool. I wish we got to see it more in WCW, but the beauty of Raven in ECW was that he was the master of mind games. Raven knows how to push people's buttons, and that is how he takes advantage of people's mistakes. Benoit however is a guy known for *not* making mistakes, which is what makes this match so interesting. Raven wins the mind games battle in this match with the way that he makes Benoit focus less on winning the match, and more on trying to make the match personal and hurt Raven. Take notice of how Benoit slaps Raven around and refuses to pin Raven when he has the chance, but also notice how that emotion from Benoit makes his strikes even more painful. This is a very intriguing story especially for a Benoit fan. Not going to spoil this, but this match at its core is a battle of whether Raven's mind games could defeat Benoit's aggressiveness.

******


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Do you mean there's stuff from '07, '09', & '10 that you've never seen before? That must be cool to discover new stuff from one of your faves.


I've seen the important matches already but there are some TV stuff that I need to check out to assure my opinion on them. From 03 there are only a handful of matches that will appear, I'm almost done with 04 while 05 and 06 is just a matter of rechecking out the stuff I know are worthy of appearing (done most of them), already done with 08 and will recheck some of the stuff from the past couple of years along with all the leftovers from the years you mentioned. I'm probably 80% done and maybe more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EmbassyForever said:


> Thoughts on RAW 2011 matches such as Bourne, Kingston, Cena, Sheamus, Cena and Ryan vs Ziggler, Otunga, Swagger, ADR, Christian and Rhodes (damn it was long); Miz, Christian and Truth vs Riley, Cena and Orton; Myserio vs ADR vs Punk; etc?


Mutliman tag was pretty terrific. Loved the southern style approach during the bulk of it.

The elimination was standard WWE dreck. Not worth your time.

Mysterio vs Del Rio > Punk vs Del Rio, but both are good. I think I liked the RAW Punk vs Del Rio match more than at Survivor Series.

--------------

oooooh. Can't wait to see the Benoit vs Raven match. I'm at the go-home week before Souled Out '98 so I'll get to that point soon enough. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched a couple of raw matches today

kofi/cesaro us title match on raw was pretty good. Cesaro is become one of my current favorites on the roster.shocking how much cesaro carries kofi in this matches

rollins/bryan was pretty good, great crowd , I love how bryan plays up the crowd and gets them into the match more recently and really makes his matches that much more enjoyable. Rollins is my favorite member of the shield and has a bright future.

watching miz/bryan noc and gonna watch a streak match later, really enjoying going off ** recently


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> rollins/bryan was pretty good, great crowd , I love how bryan plays up the crowd and gets them into the match more recently and really makes his matches that much more enjoyable. Rollins is my favorite member of the shield and has a bright future.


That was the first time I really LOVED him in one of the Raw matches. Everyone was going nuts over all of his tags against The Shield, and they were good, but I wasn't as blown away as everyone else.

When I saw the match with Rollins, though, I LOVED him. And then what do you know. I come online, and most people here are giving it, like, *** 3/4. It was surprising to me, because I found it much superior to all of the tag matches that were getting ****+.

I liked the calm, wrestling, aspect, though. I understand why people find the tags more fun, but the quality of this was just so good. 

Only watched it once live, so I'm just going with my perceptions at the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson capturing the tag team formula in those matches is what blew me away. I wasn't exactly surprised he managed to perfect it, but it was the fact he did it so well and got the fans to become emotionally involved to that level was just tremendous. Both aspects: FIP or playing the "hot tag" he nailed it. Dead on.

Match vs Black being great wasn't a shocker either with the time given. Both men have made the adaptations to the WWE style more than fit, so naturally you put them with some time behind 'em and their chemistry was going to shine through. Adding in the callbacks to previous matches of their's only upped how much I thought of the match. Glad the buckle bomb from Rollins is staying.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Obfuscation said:


> Danielson capturing the tag team formula in those matches is what blew me away. I wasn't exactly surprised he managed to perfect it, but it was the fact he did it so well and got the fans to become emotionally involved to that level was just tremendous. Both aspects: FIP or playing the "hot tag" he nailed it. Dead on.
> 
> Match vs Black being great wasn't a shocker either with the time given. Both men have made the adaptations to the WWE style more than fit, so naturally you put them with some time behind 'em and their chemistry was going to shine through. Adding in the callbacks to previous matches of their's only upped how much I thought of the match. Glad the buckle bomb from Rollins is staying.


Danielson is amazing. Just because he was in a feud with a tag team he went and became an amazing Tag team worker. 


WWE Vengeance 2004

_Sunday Night Heat:_
*Tyson Tomko w/Trish Stratus vs. Val Venis w/Nidia*

It went less than 3 minutes. It wasn't bad or anything but in 3 minutes there really isn't much that you can do to have an impressive match. 
***

*
The Coach and Garrison Cade vs. Rhyo and Tajiri
*
Can't say I was a fan of this. Tajiri and Rhyno are good enough but Coach can't wrestle and Cade isn't particularly great either.It was structured fairly basically Tajiri played the face in peril before making a hot tag to Rhyno. Unfortunately the control segment was boring because the guys in control weren't very good. There were a few amusing moments with Tajiri and Coach but other than that this is something that doesn't belong on a PPV. 
***


*Chris Jericho vs. Batista*

This is pretty much what you would expect from these two. Batista just played the power houe against an underdog Jericho. The match was solid but it was lacking the big comeback from Jericho that would have brought this to the next level. A good comeback from Jericho would have taken this from average to great. 
***1/4 *



_World Tag Team Championship Match_
*La Resistance (c) Vs. Ric Flair and Eugene
*
Flair and Eugene are hilarious together. Flair comes out to the ring first doing his classic Ric Flair entrance and out behind him comes Eugene wearing a Ric Flair robe and havng Eugene mimmick all of his actions and then when the match started Eugene did his best to wrestle as Ric Flair. Flair got a tag and we saw classic Flair as a face, which was fun to see. Basically the first two thrids of the match were just Eugene and Flair beating the shit out of the champions. After a while we saw Flair get isolated and Eugene get more and more angry outside the ring. I wasn't a huge fan of the ending but it was really all they could do. The tag champs looked weak but the match was really entertaining. Just a lot of fun.
***3/4*


_No Disqualification Match:_
*Kane vs. Matt Hardy*

This might be the environment where Matt Hardy is at his very best. The desperate babyface, while this wasn't the level of his matches with Edge he still bought the same intensity to the match. While I really liked the way Matt Hardy came into the match I can't say the same for Kane. There was a little but of trash talking from him that I liked but when he was actually on offense it just kind of seemed like he was wrestling a normal match. So I was left feeling that Matt Hary was in the fight of his life and that Kane was just having another match. Matt was awesome, the match was short and intense and had a feel god ending. I got everything I was hoping for out of it.
*****


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Randy Orton(c) vs. Edge*

There was almost an even crowd split at the start of the match which created a fantastic atmosphere as the place was just electric from bell to bell. A large portion of the match was orton being in control of the match, Edge got in some offensive spurts but those moments were few and far between. Despite the fact that Orton spent so much time in control they were able to keep things interesting by throwing in some false comebacks from Edge. I loved adamant Orton was about being the heel. The fans were cheering for him and Orton turned it around by putting Edge in the longest headlock ever, and that really turned the crowd against him. I knew this match had the long headlock but I never realized why Randy did it until this rewatch. It was pretty damn smart on his part.

They really had the crowd involved in the match by the end of things. I spotted fans in the "Mark Out Pose" (both hands on your head in a state of disbelief) when they were going for secondary finishers likethe Impaler DDT. The finishing stretch of the match was awesome but the steps both guys took to get to that point really made the match that much more impressive. A smartly worked and exciting match. This is probably the best non-gimmick match that Edge has had and it's still one of Orton's best singles matches I think.
*****1/4 *



_World Heavyweight Championship Match:_
*Triple H vs. Chris Benoit(c)
*
Triple H went into the match believing that he was already the champion and he wrestled like the champion. Despite holding the title for months Benoit looked like the underdog. Benoit got in a lot of chops early and some offense but it seemed like he was throwing everything he had at Triple H and that it wasn't good enough. All of this really made Benoit's comeback seem meaningful. So everything was going so well until we had the ref bump and Eugene showed up. I have no idea why Triple H had Eugene come to the ring when he could have just sent the rest of Evolution into the ring and they would have easily helped him. 

However if you can look past that the ending was still pretty exciting because you weren't sure what Eugene would do and it was up in the air about who would win. It was just stupid that it was happening in the first place. So in all the match was great but the finsihing stretch was really stupid. I'll have to check out their Iron Man match where hopefully there is less stupidity.
****1/2 *​
Well Edge/Orton was great and the main event was good, but it should have been great. Hardy/Kane and the Tag Title match wre fun but nothing too amazing. Decent enough show though, I can't really complain about a show with a great match and an almost great match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Definitely. He had some classic tag matches on the indies, but nothing to ever cement him as a legit "grand" tag team worker. I think he's gotten to that point now after being aligned with Kane vs Shield this year.

Vengeance 2004. Yeah, it does have two good matches on it, but the bulk of that show is so dull and filler for me. I don't mind it, tbhayley; I simply can't look past it. It's like they didn't try very hard with the PPV that month.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Vengeance is like every other Raw PPV from 2004, a two match show. Main event and IC title matches are both excellent. And I don't even remember what matches were on the rest of the show without looking it up.

I loved Orton's work there. Rewatched it today and it still holds up pretty well. Nearly 30 minutes yet pretty well worked, specially from Orton who turns the crowd against him. Liked his acting post-match too when he pretended to start crying.

Main event is great too but not as good as what Benoit and HHH have otherwise had. Ironman match is better but don't expect any less shenanigans in the finish. There's as much of it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The Orton/Edge match dragged on for me a little. I have it at ***1/4 so I liked it but didn't love it. I actually like their Raw match from April 2007 better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IDK, I thought Jericho-Batista was great in the mold of a Bad Blood 2003 with Jericho-Goldberg, except that 2004 Batista is certainly no Bill Goldberg. Anybody else wanna throw out some mad love for Jericho-GOLDBERG from Bad Blood 2003?

Orton is a crazy case of a guy who really shined in the ring when he allowed his charisma to do a ton of the work for him in the Legend Killer Days. The cockiness of his real life translated into his on screen persona, thus giving us a more amplified version of himself on a week to week basis. When he got boring in real life, he got boring as shit in the ring as well and it really shows. When you take an Orton-Taker, Orton-Benoit, Orton-Foley, Orton-Rey, they all have fantastic Orton performances due to Randy's ability to take his real life and apply it to his job.

I miss the Legend Killer </3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really really like Goldberg vs Jericho.

Jericho vs Batista is a shit match. Batista was awful in it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Is it a safe assumption to make that Goldberg may be the most underrated mainstream performer ever?

Or would that distinction go to Dustin Rhodes.... Hmmm.....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like to think most out there like Dustin even if not putting him as a top flight "worker". _(not everyone thinks this way, of course)_ He's liked for his work either in WCW or his memorable character as Goldust. Whereas Goldberg has a stigma behind him of being "bad" when in reality he's far from him while working the type of match he was suited for.

Something about guys with "Gold" in the front of their name not getting respect or what?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry would be a prime candidate pre-2011 as well. Guy had an absolute MONSTER of a 2006 while the rest of his work from 02-11 was fucking boss as well. Must be something to do with his booking making people believe that he magically became awesome overnight or something when it happened to be there the entire time.

Goldberg might be a case of people misinterpreting what it means to be a great worker though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say that fits Goldberg well. So many topics on him often have people trying to compare him with guys like Bret Hart, Ric Flair, etc when that's daft. He wasn't like that. Nor did he try or every want to be. He was a machine. That's what his appeal was and that's what made him become huge. You can be a strong worker in different fields. Goldberg doing his role was ideal.

Henry works too. He's like Scott Norton to me. Someone who I thought as a kid was terrible. Yet, I'm watching him these days and I really like him. I'm talking WCW days and not just work in Japan. Why I thought he was poor as a kid is something I won't know. Clearly a sign that his clubberin style wasn't "cool" enough like someone doing something flashy would be. Not like taking a kid at his word is something anyone does when it comes to liking or disliking a wrestler, but I'm using it purely as an example which shows once you take the time to look at how one works, there can be something good right under your nose. Which tends to describe Henry to a tee before 2011 for most.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed, thought Henry was terrible as a kid to be completely honest, grouped him in with the Khali's of the world to my shame. 

AHHHH, the days where I thought the HBK-HHH series was really good.... Terrible .

At least now due to getting a main event push near the end of his career, Henry will retire as a celebrated legend when he hangs it up, and that makes his 2011 - present run all the more pivotal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You got me to ponder what is a bad match that I used to like when I was younger. Cena vs Edge TLC works. I watched that a few times and always liked it. Then a random go in 2011 I was like "wow, this is terrible." Don't know what clicked. It was out of the blue and I noticed many things about it I don't like. What is another one...almost certain it remains. Cena vs Edge last man standing doesn't count b/c it wasn't until January of this year where I saw it for the second time and thought it was crap. I'm sure another one will pop up soon enough.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Show deserves mention for being a very underappreciated mainstream worker. He is really good at doing his job as a freak of nature. Can play a face and a heel as well.

Angle/Benoit Cage match fits the description of a match that we once thought was awesome, but really is just utter trash.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed on Cena-Edge for sure. Thought Cena-Van Dam ruled as well as a kid, mainly anything with OMG EXCITEMENT or OMG SPOTZ really got me as a kid, even if neither of the two had anything to do with structuring a well thought out and captivating story featuring two or more characters. I guess it's like all things you tend to enjoy as a child that don't hold up; too much STYLE and not enough SUBSTANCE to sustain.

IDEK. Wrecked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Among the lot of plonkers, yeah Big Show is underrated. One of my favorites ever to step in the ring, so I tend to forget not everyone thinks the same as me when it comes to the guy. He's the best.

Benoit vs Angle isn't a match I'm ever going to hate like some others. I won't deny any comments spoken about the match. It's just nothing I watch and go "wow this match is terrible." I usually turn my mind off every time I view and watch the goofy non-transitions play out from lunatic spot to lunatic spot. German suplex off the ropes is :mark:

If more mindless matches were like that, well, mindless matches wouldn't be as universally despised like they are.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Summerslam's 2003 chamber fits the description, as well, of_ cool as a kid, but grew out and recognize its okayness._ Still fun, but not the best, as my simple mind comprehended. .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Already had a video ready for any Brock/HHH match down the line:






Disclaimer - HHH marks, this aint for you


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fluze said:


> Summerslam's 2003 chamber fits the description, as well, of_ cool as a kid, but grew out and recognize its okayness._ Still fun, but not the best, as my simple mind comprehended. .


Only good thing about it is Goldberg. It's like how this year's chamber was; only it felt like the guy dominating and making the match good got to shine much more in 2003 than in 2013 with Henry.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Only good thing about it is Goldberg. It's like how this year's chamber was; only it felt like the guy dominating and making the match good got to shine much more in 2003 than in 2013 with Henry.


2013 Chamber was still MUCH better than 03 imo. It was a lot more methodical than most years but still saw it with a large sense of intrigue, star-power and nice psychology. And Mark fucking Henry >>> Goldberg, even if Goldie 03's performance was a lil' better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2013's was garbage. I never want to watch it again.

I'm not big on the 2003 one but at least Goldberg killing people was done in a short span with an endgame. Instead of nothing, Mark Henry for about ten minutes, and back to nothing to finish it. Perfect idea of WWE "main event" dreck. I'll never be a fan of it. Just b/c it has some big names in it, doesn't make it good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Opinions. Being bitches since the birth of pro-wrestling. 

Still, ain't no Chamber that will out-worse D2D. That wasn't good.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Obfuscation said:


> 2013's was garbage. I never want to watch it again.
> 
> I'm not big on the 2003 one but at least Goldberg killing people was done in a short span with an endgame. Instead of nothing, Mark Henry for about ten minutes, and back to nothing to finish it. Perfect idea of WWE "main event" dreck. I'll never be a fan of it. *Just b/c it has some big names in it, doesn't make it good.*


Oh, but it does. :vince5


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Opinions. Being bitches since the birth of pro-wrestling.
> 
> Still, ain't no Chamber that will out-worse D2D. That wasn't good.


Only saw it once yet I still remember how terribly booked it was. Heyman, Show, the brass wanted Punker to win. Steph says no, it's Lashley's time and then Punk goes out first. Crowd's pissed. Pretty soon everyone else is gone wayyyyy before Show's pod opens. Nothing happens (literally this time around) & then Show is in, gets beat in about three minutes and Lashley celebrates to a crowd that couldn't care less.

ahhhhhhh



Fluze said:


> Oh, but it does. :vince5


Oh that wacky, Vince.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think I'm putting myself through Angle vs Benoit RR again, but this time in a "Count How Many Useless Suplexes And Non-Sold Submissions For The Sakes Of 'Fun' Are There" Game :kurt


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only fun if it will be a drinking game. Then again if you do that, you might as well hit the skip button and jump backwards onto Steiner vs Triple H. Much more fun to get wasted during, I'd imagine. Holy crap I should do this tomorrow.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

zep81 said:


> Already had a video ready for any Brock/HHH match down the line:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I swear, there's something about the phrase "Triple H needs his win back" that cracks me up every single time :HHH2


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Is he fucking going over? :jpl


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Duke Silver said:


> Is he fucking going over? :jpl


I certainly hope there isn't another match, but with Brock apprantly signing 'till 2015, its probably inevitable


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

:HHH2

Since there was brief Goldberg talk earlier, what's everyone's opinions on Goldberg/Rock? Never seem to see that match discussed at all. Though I barely remember much about it myself.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> :HHH2
> 
> Since there was brief Goldberg talk earlier, what's everyone's opinions on Goldberg/Rock? Never seem to see that match discussed at all. Though I barely remember much about it myself.


Ive said it before on here, i did think i was the only one who liked that match :side:

Its not the best worked and a tad lumbering but i like it, its also good actually seeing Goldberg/Rock together in the ring.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

On the Berg-Rock call, *1/2. Way too much stalling in the initiative segments and just one big spot after another, in progression, no diversity at all.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

On the note of Goldberg, I actually loved the first match between him and Trips. Unforgiven, I believe and at ***1/2. Great match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/Goldberg is a *** but not a main event worthy match IMO. Enjoyed Rock's heel antics and Goldberg's selling in this match.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I liked Rock/Goldberg a lot. Probably my fav Goldberg match from WWE.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Not a fan of Rock/Goldberg. The only WWE match of Goldberg that I digged was the one with Jericho


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Not with Jericho-Berg on the list.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

I'd give Goldberg/Rock *****

It's just good fun to watch, but nothing special. It was sad to watch because I think we all kinda knew that this would be Rock's last match for quite some time. The little post-show segment further confirmed that too.

The Rock was flat out hilarious throughout the match, and quite a lot of the crowd was on his side despite being the heel and despite it being Goldberg's debut. Further proof of Rock's greatness - he gets booed in late 2002 because he's "stale" and keeps leaving. So he turns heel and becomes so entertaining that the fans get back in his corner even though he's still leaving again to do movies. Genius.

I love the spot where Rock spears Goldberg and does the kip up. Crowd in the palm of his hands.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

"Hollywood" Rock was GOAT. Actual Hollywood Rock in 2012-13? Not so much.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, what ya know, a total whopping of 20 - yes, TWENTY - Suplexes on Angle/Benoit RR. Forgot to count the submissions, but a dime dozen of them too. I finished doing this a while ago, and boy is it more fun than the match itself.

Goldberg/Rock, I'd give it **3/4. Still better than Cena/Rock II. Goldie was lucky he was in the ring with 2003 Rock, who could turn anything to gold.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill be interested to find out what sort of match Punk/Brock will have. Same style as the Cena match, or methodical like the HHH matches, with Punk actually able to play that underdog kind that will make the match work, or will he go the Trips route and make himself try and look on Brock's level,

Cannot fucking wait, i hope its good, i could easily see a rematch already down the line.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I think Punk/Brock will be very different compared to The ones with Cena&Trips. Brock works for the first time since his return with a tehnical wrestler


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I wouldn't really classify Punk as technical.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^
More like a Savage-like all-around style. Obviously not on Savage's level, but yeah.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Yep, like a Shawn or a Savage, who don't have a specific style, but hold their own in fields like high-flying, technicality, brawling etc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock vs Goldberg - ★★★½



Dark Church said:


> The Orton/Edge match dragged on for me a little. I have it at ***1/4 so I liked it but didn't love it. I actually like their Raw match from April 2007 better.


You should check out their Raw match from 13 December 2004. Their best one together. Second place would go to the post-Backlash 2007 one and then Vengeance. Their other two 04 matches from 10 May and 19 July deserve some love too.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Orton is a crazy case of a guy who really shined in the ring when he allowed his charisma to do a ton of the work for him in the Legend Killer Days. The cockiness of his real life translated into his on screen persona, thus giving us a more amplified version of himself on a week to week basis. When he got boring in real life, he got boring as shit in the ring as well and it really shows. When you take an Orton-Taker, Orton-Benoit, Orton-Foley, Orton-Rey, they all have fantastic Orton performances due to Randy's ability to take his real life and apply it to his job.
> 
> I miss the Legend Killer </3


THE LEGEND KILLER!

Watched the No Way Out match with Rey yesterday and his performance is soooooooooo good. Just a first grade prick and it all comes so natural. The icing on the cake is always the ending. "I AM GOING TO THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMAAAAAANIA! Where are you going?" \_o__/



funnyfaces1 said:


> Angle/Benoit Cage match fits the description of a match that we once thought was awesome, but really is just utter trash.


I still love that match.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I really like A-Train-Benoit from NM' 2003, at **** and my personal MOTN. Benoit's selling, undying perseverance and overall performance, carried the match, while Train was fine in his usual monster heel act, nothing groundbreaking, but passable. Benoit though, WOOOOO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Better than Angle/Cena?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

ATF said:


> Better than Angle/Cena?


Yes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I treated myself to watching the Shawn/taker mania matches last night/morning to see how I think of them after not seeing either in over a year, 

I still think 26 > 25, but by a hair. You can honestly flip a coin and decide which is better, their are both perfect ************** matches. Only flaw with 25 is I don't like the long counter sequences towards the end of the matches, but if there ever was a match it is acceptable in, it this. 26 has better wrestling imo and 25 has better, storytelling, suspense, more of a spectacle

both are top 3 matches in company history to me ironically right behind their first bout in 97. Truly remarkable


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm intrigued to see if a Punk/Cena wM match will deliver like a HBk/Taker or even better, who knows


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Yes.


Okay then. 

EDIT: Doubtful they would, unless they pulled a MITB on the big stage.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Cena-Angle from NM is good, but I'd personally rank their NWO bout as being the best of their overall series together.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NWO is also very good indeed. I'd also give a nod to their Unforgiven match. The ending sucked but the match itself was solid.

Am I the only one who still listens to Our Lady Peace's "Whatever" song frequently around here?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I still have Angle/Cena at No Mercy 03 as MOTN. ★★★3/4 for it. Great match with Angle trying to out-wrestle him while Cena tries to out-brawl him. The commentators putting emphasis on their contrasting styles against each other was also a nice touch on things. Really great match.

As for their NWO match, I've never got around to watching it. I'll have to check it out later on.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> I treated myself to watching the Shawn/taker mania matches last night/morning to see how I think of them after not seeing either in over a year,
> 
> I still think 26 > 25, but by a hair. You can honestly flip a coin and decide which is better, their are both perfect ************** matches. Only flaw with 25 is I don't like the long counter sequences towards the end of the matches, but if there ever was a match it is acceptable in, it this. 26 has better wrestling imo and 25 has better, storytelling, suspense, more of a spectacle
> 
> both are top 3 matches in company history to me ironically right behind their first bout in 97. Truly remarkable


Wouldn't say that 25 had better storytelling or suspense. The third SCM at 26 is the biggest near-fall in either match imo. 25 takes the spectacle aspect pretty surely though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've watched just about the whole Angle/Cena series of matches and I really just can't get into any of them.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle/Cena's best match is No Mercy by far. Their NWO is good but not all that great. NM is awesome, though.



ATF said:


> Am I the only one who still listens to Our Lady Peace's "Whatever" song frequently around here?


No, I listen to it every day. Not as much now since I don't have my iPod with me when I go out but for school days... all the time.

Easily my favorite WWE theme along with Cena's two songs, Orton's old one and right now, I'm addicted to "Line in the Sand".


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Silverthorn said:


> Wouldn't say that 25 had better storytelling or suspense. The third SCM at 26 is the biggest near-fall in either match imo. 25 takes the spectacle aspect pretty surely though.


No, idk I feel 25 is a tad more slower paced, I enjoy the story told in it a taad more. The suspense factor is when I think Shawn kicking out of the 1st tombstone, nobody in the area nor at home thought that was going to happen, and JR's "out of body experience" commentary was just icing on the cake. The crowd went nuts after


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WM25 - EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCC :mark:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Best WWE theme imo is "Metalingus" or "Just Close Your Eyes" (Hollywood Blonde version)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Silverthorn said:


> Best WWE theme imo is "Metalingus" or "Just Close Your Eyes" (Hollywood Blonde version)


Pretty sure it's Waterproof Blonde. I prefer the current version of it tbh. "Metalingus" is awesome and definitely one of the best. Love The Rock's theme too. "You're Gonna Pay" rules as well.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh yeah, them then.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Can't go wrong with Kane's old theme Slow Chemical.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

"Slow Chemical" is awesome too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I literaly listen to Cult of Personality ever day, every time I envision myself walking out somewhere with a hoodie over my head and some person walking behind me :lmao :lmao

Good wwe themes
COP punks
here to show the world ziggler
I am perfection
My time
sexy boy
Henry theme
Christian theme

I will say this flair 91-92 theme is his best imo

edit: @ COdy's and KOK's discussion early, its not a bad match, great actually but when I was younger I use to think savage/steamboat wm 3 was OTHERWORLDLY *************


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)




----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

This Fire Burns (CM Punk's old theme)
Metalingus (Edge)
JeriShow
Rated RKO
Come On (Sean O'Haire)
Undertaker (1998 Theme)
Stone Cold (Disturbed Theme)

Those are my favorites. I have been kind of obsessed with theme music though since I started watching.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some Payback ratings:

Del Rio/Ziggler - ****1/4 - MOTM, really like this, Del Rio was great turning back heel, excellent.

Punk/Jericho - ***3/4 - Enjoyed it for the most part, Punk looked winded early on, wasnt that keen on the finisher anfer finisher ending, did like the mid air codebreaker though.

Cena/Ryback - *1/2 - Man this was pretty shit, the dive that Cena did, was replayed a million times, wasnt even good lol, and can he ever take a steel step bump right, just awful for the most part, horrid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Payback happened and boy do I not care. Raw happened and boy do I totally fucking care about MITB. 

Henry/Cena? :mark:
DANIEL BRYAN proving he isn't the weak link by potentially winning MITB? :mark:
Christian being back FINALLY and hopefully having some high profile match on the show? :mark:
PUNK/LENSAR interaction in some form (doubt they'll "waste" the match on a non big 4 event, but I do think they'll do SOMETHING on the show involving them)? :mark:
FACE Ziggler going for the WHC? :mark:


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

Yeah, MITB is always a PPV I'm excited about. This year, it's looking like it's going to be a good one since Cena won't be part of the ladder match. 

I hope Daniel Bryan gets to shine in his match. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> This Fire Burns (CM Punk's old theme)
> Metalingus (Edge)
> JeriShow
> Rated RKO
> ...


All great themes. I forgot how good Sean O'Haire's theme was.

I may be in the minority, but I loved FBI's theme:


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I also know it isn't WWE but I love Kevin Steen's theme.

FBI did indeed have a good theme.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

About to finally watch the Team Austin/Bischoff elimination match from SVS 2003. Been a while so I need to see if it is as great as the first time.



That's irrelevant said:


> All great themes. I forgot how good Sean O'Haire's theme was.
> 
> I may be in the minority, but I loved FBI's theme:


I prefer the "NO SLEEP TILL..... BROOOOOOOKLYYYYYYYN!" remix to this.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Paul's Boutique is easily a ******* album. Licensed to Ill is a solid *****1/2*.

Ken Shamrock had a pretty damn good theme.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I love Benoit's and RVD's themes so I'll mention them.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GYM MUZIK

"The Time is Now"
"Basic Thuganomics"
"Somebody's Gonna Get It" (BEAST of a Gym Song)
"The Game"
"King of Kings"
"Cult of Personality"
"This Fire Burns"

I also like to turn on a few of these MISC themes to get me pumped;

"The Beautiful People" - SD Theme
"Rise Up" - SD Theme
"St. Anger" - Summerslam 2003 Theme
"Eyes Wired Shut" - Backlash 2004 Theme
"All Nightmare Long" - No Mercy 2008 Theme

That's what's on my IPHONE at the moment in terms of WWE Related Music. OH, but this is my ultimate victory song after a workout;






:brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still my Ultimate theme:


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Raven has to be one of my all time favorite mic workers. I just saw him cut a thirty second promo with Angle backstage that was amazing.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Obfuscation, I get what you're saying about the Bryan tags.



zep81 said:


> Still my Ultimate theme:
> 
> TnTubvY43Nc


I agree, it still holds up really well. I posted Demolition in one of the "best entrances ever" thread, based almost entirely on their kick-ass theme music. Even though it still has that 80s metal sound, it still sounds like it could work today. I swear it's a big part of why I liked them as a kid, lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

This song (which is badass) fits Cena "so much":






:vince :cena4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So that Survivor Series 03 elimination match wasn't as good as I remembered it being but still ★★★★. Shawn Michaels' performance only really stands out because of the WWE hype and a sick blade job - like they usually are with JR's over the top commentary. Time for Orton's other sole survivor matches now. rton



funnyfaces1 said:


> Paul's Boutique is easily a ******* album. Licensed to Ill is a solid *****1/2*.


That they definitely are. Specially love PB. Always brightens the day for me.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> "The Time is Now"
> "Basic Thuganomics"
> "Somebody's Gonna Get It" (BEAST of a Gym Song)
> "The Game"


Cena's themes are both perfection. Don't even know which one I prefer more. Used to hate "The Game" but that whiny guitar part of it is insane and I love it. And Mark Henry has made a song even better than his theme.






:troll


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I lose internet for a week and when I come back this thread becomes a theme music discussion place. YOU USED TO BE COOL, THREAD!

Had something else I wanted to say. Don't remember. My mind is all over the place. I need sleep. Preferably with someone else in my bed too. Dammit I don't like feeling this way. Stupid girls with their mind control powers that they don't know about. What?

***1/2 for... that match. With those guys. Was really good but could have been better. Finish was alright.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

i lost 'tinternet for a few days, i thought i had it bad :$


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

A week without internet and you're still alive? What?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

All this talk of themes and nobody mentions this? 






Thread I am disappoint....unless it was said a few pages back in which case I didn't see it .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CAL HATES MUSIC .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wow didnt think the theme convo would still be going on anyways

just found out REY vs RIC FLAIR exists :mark: :mark: wcw time checking it out


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Favorite themes (that I listen to really often) are The Game, My Time, Cult of Personality, Exodus, Line in the Sand (GOAT stable theme), Orton's first theme after Evolution, Break it Down.

Had an inkling earlier to check out some 2012 matches like Punk/Cena NOC, Brock/Cena and Bryan/Sheamus ER, Punk/Bryan OTL and MITB, then the Brock/Trips series (which I'll need for my Trips project anyways).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

whats everyones thoughts on cena vs jbl JD 05 ?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Top 5 MOTY in one of the best wrestling years ever.

**** 1/2 but could easily go up on a rewatch, doubt it'll go down though


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Favorite themes:

Shawn Michaels
Evolution
Four Horsemen
Deuce & Domino $)
Randy Orton (Burn In My Light)
Marcus Cor Von
Billy Gunn (I'M AN ASS MAN)
MVP
Christian (2005 one)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So, Punk/Cena at NOC is ****1/4, but Cena kicking out of all that shit then coming from out of nowhere to hit the AA, then the German suplex was pretty ridiculous. Just think if WWE hadn't trolled us and ended Punk's reign that way.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best theme of all time? Line in the Sand by Motorhead. Summerslam 2004 will forever be fermented in my head.

Other underrated ones? Perry Saturn (with the sirens) & Tazz (with the beeping).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

havent watched noc in a while but remember it being very good, I saw the matches you were about to watch early. punk/bryan mitb was awesome and better than otl imo. I think all the punk/bryan matches are in the top 10-5 best matches last year


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Really hungover so I decided to watch some Rumble matches today. I don't usually rate them, but I gave it a try.

2007 - ****3/4
2004 - ****1/2
2005 - ****1/2
2008 - ****1/4
2001 - ****1/4

- 2007 Rumble is my favorite of all time. I really don't believe there's a dull moment in it. The ending sequence with Taker/HBK is insane. Edge and Finlay do a good job lasting a long time in there. Didn't like the Khali stuff but they were building him up at the time so it made sense at least.

- 2004 Rumble is also awesome. Benoit's journey to the end, along with great performances from Big Show, Goldberg (I can't stand Goldberg but he was good here), Orton, etc.

- 2008 had an amazing crowd and flowed rather well. The Snuka/Piper moment was epic and I loved how everyone just stood around and watched. Really cool moment. The Finlay/Hornswoggle shit annoyed me a little though.

- 2005 really went deep into the Raw vs Smackdown aspect. Edge and Mysterio lasted way longer than I remembered. The middle of this match stayed really interesting where many of them tail off. Hassan's part. :lmao Great match.

- I had the 2001 match on a high pedestal for a long time. Was still really good, but it tailed off a few times near the middle and I just wasn't as impressed as I used to be. Kane and Austin were great though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Royal Rumble ratings:

2004: ★★★★½
2001: ★★★★¼
2007: ★★★★¼
2008: ★★★★
2005: ★★★¾

Love them all, specially 2004.

On another note, this Orton vs RVD match from early 2004 really deserves some love. I've heard some talk about RVD carrying a concussed Orton after a bad collision for the rest of the match and many mistake it for being their Armageddon match but in reality, it's the rematch here in which Orton took a bad bump against the steel post and got opened up the hard way which nearly knocked him out.

www.dailymotion.com/video/x2l0gj_raw-randy-orton-vs-rob-van-dam_sport#.Ucex-rU2iKI


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> whats everyones thoughts on cena vs jbl JD 05 ?


Pretty standard average WWE main event stuff that means nothing. Some spots happen, Cena bleeds heavy, it ends. Only portion I deem truly noteworthy was the callback to the Eddie/JBL Judgment Day match.

Crowd ate it up, at least. Isn't hard to be enjoyed if you don't think too much with it.



ATF said:


> Goldberg/Rock, I'd give it **3/4. Still better than Cena/Rock II. Goldie was lucky he was in the ring with 2003 Rock, who could turn anything to gold.


I count Rock in '03 only having the fantastic match vs Austin. Rest was crap for me. Especially vs Hogan. Yikes.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Austin-Rock (WM 19) is almost perfect, ****3/4 for me, personally.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Pretty standard average WWE main event stuff that means nothing. Some spots happen, Cena bleeds heavy, it ends. Only portion I deem truly noteworthy was the callback to the Eddie/JBL Judgment Day match.
> 
> Crowd ate it up, at least. Isn't hard to be enjoyed if you don't think too much with it.
> 
> ...


was gonna watch it but decided nahhh

decided to watch cesaro/sheamus from sd 2 weeks ago. TVMOTY candy definitely. Sluggfest, falling in love with cesaro each day

Edit: two things Im embarrassed as a wrestling fan to say 1) I have never seen a rock/austin match ever 2) Ive never seen a Dustin rhodes/goldust match ever as well


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brye said:


> Really hungover.


I know your pain brother. I don't wanna be around alcohol again for a very, very long time...



Choke2Death said:


> On another note, this Orton vs RVD match from early 2004 really deserves some love. I've heard some talk about RVD carrying a concussed Orton after a bad collision for the rest of the match and many mistake it for being their Armageddon match but in reality, it's the rematch here in which Orton took a bad bump against the steel post and got opened up the hard way which nearly knocked him out.
> 
> www.dailymotion.com/video/x2l0gj_raw-randy-orton-vs-rob-van-dam_sport#.Ucex-rU2iKI


Ooooh, will have to watch that sometime as I love their Armageddon '03 match, moreso than most I'd say. Comfortable *** 3/4.



redskins25 said:


> Edit: two things Im embarrassed as a wrestling fan to say 1) I have never seen a rock/austin match ever 2) Ive never seen a Dustin rhodes/goldust match ever as well


The 2nd part I can somewhat understand but damn, no Rock/Austin match? That's kinda hard to fathom. X7 and Backlash '99 are my two personal favorites. Personally I think XIX is severely overrated. I gave it *** 1/2 on the last watch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ooooh, will have to watch that sometime as I love their Armageddon '03 match, moreso than most I'd say. Comfortable *** 3/4.


I think this rematch is even better than the Armageddon one. Got ARM at ★★★½ and this Raw (12/1/2004) match at ★★★¾. Funny in the end when Orton channels his inner Eddie Guerrero.

Been on a bit of a RVD/Orton roll as I also watched their Raw match from May 2007 and the stretcher match from One Night Stand right after. The ONS match really went up for me big time. First time I saw it, it bored the shit out of me but this time it was much better. Some nasty head-aimed offense from both and RVD sold the concussion pretty well. Was pretty cool that he even fell over the top rope when going for the Five Star Frog Splash just to sell it. He also deserved that win as he had put over Orton repeatedly from when he was still coming up until his WWE exit to solidify the Legend Killer.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That RKO RVD takes in the Raw '07 match gives me nightmares. I recall liking those matches though. Just haven't seen them in ages.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*CM Punk/Chris Jericho - Wrestlemania 28 ****1/2*

Well, the build to this was interesting, as Jericho brought out the drug/alcohol stuff from Punk's family. LOL at Jericho in the match. "Hey, Punk! How's your father?" "Your father's a drunk! Your sister's a drug addict!" Really enjoyed this match more than the first couple times I saw it, but I've always liked the finish a lot, with Jericho using the old Lion Tamer (even though Cole sometimes refers to it as a "modified version of the Walls". GRRRR.), then Punk countering into the Anaconda Vice, with Jericho countering out again and attempting to re-lock the Walls, but Punk locking in the Vice for a second time, avoiding Jericho's kicks to the head by shifting his position. Fun match, but still second best on the card that night, which is saying something. 

*Sheamus/Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules 2012 ****1/2*

So basically, Sheamus can never go to Chicago and expect to get cheered. And Chicago loves Bryan. LIKE FOR REAL. So besides the crowd being GOAT, Bryan was terrific on offense, and Sheamus did a pretty good job of selling during that match. I'm not really a fan of having the first fall go 20 minutes, then have the last two falls in less than 10 minutes. They did the same thing that Triple H did in the Bash match: get disqualified in the first fall, then getting a quick fall with the submission. If that match had gone another 5-10 minutes and didn't just have Sheamus win the third fall so quick, it could have probably been a MOTYC.

*CM Punk/Daniel Bryan - Money in the Bank 2012 *****

Okay, I get that AJ being referee for this match made sense in the story, but her presence took away from the commentators calling the match (not that they always do anyways). Another really good encounter from these guys. The No DQ stip doesn't really come into play for about the first half of the match, save for the kendo stick. The best parts of the match are the times that AJ isn't out there. BTW, I'm such a mark for Bryan's "Yes" kicks. Enjoyed Bryan's Labell Lock with the kendo stick, also his counter of the GTS into a hurricanrana/rollup earlier in the match. The finish was a bit strange to me, with Punk hitting the back suplex from the top through the table, but whatever. This match isn't quite the masterpiece that their Over the Limit match was, but good nonetheless. 

*Triple H/Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2012 ***3/4*

One of the reasons I was glad this match was over was so we didn't have to hear about "The Perfect Storm" again. Man, they oversold that. As big of a Trips fan as I am, when he sent Brock over the top rope and yelled, "This is my house. WWE! Not UFC!", I just rolled my eyes. But then Brock steps back and TAKES DEM GLOVES IN A SHOW OF GOATNESS. From that point, Brock takes over and works over the arm. Triple H's selling is good, of course, but Brock being the beast that he is pretty awesome. Also, Brock coming back with, "My HOUSE!" is nice. Triple H tapping out actually made sense, and even though I liked this match, and the Extreme Rules 2013 match, this feud should have ended at Summerslam. Also, RIP Triple H's hair. 

*Sheamus/Big Show - Hell in a Cell 2012 ****1/4*

Pretty good video package, even though Sheamus on the mic is cringeworthy. Show really carried the promos. He's not so great as a face, but is a terrific heel worker. Show was really good in this match, and again, Sheamus' selling is good. I really like how when Sheamus tries to mount his comeback, Show counters the reverse chest punches, and counters the axe handle (flying and standing). Really, REALLY love how Big Show avoids the second Brogue kick and catches Sheamus pretty much in mid-air and landed the KO punch. Also, fuck that no-selling Atlanta crowd.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I would have hated to be a writter during the beginning of the Invasion. It was clear they didn't know exactly what they wanted to do. Still managed to produce entertaining shows though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RATINGZ:

Punk/Jericho WM28- ****
Bryan/Sheamus ER- ****
Punk/Bryan MITB- ***1/4
Brock/HHH SS- ***
Sheamus/Show HIAC- ***3/4
Cena/JBL JD 05- ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/dbryan is incredible right until Dbryan gets dq on first fall. Match goes to hell after IMO with supersheamus not even tapping, Bryan gets most of the offense in after with Sheamus laying on the ground majority of the time until he cenas it up and brogue kicks him


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> decided to watch cesaro/sheamus from sd 2 weeks ago. TVMOTY candy definitely. Sluggfest, falling in love with cesaro each day


Watch the one from Main Event, smokes it.


Agree w/ Cody on Cena/JBL. Not that good at all. said this six weeks back: 



> Cena v. JBL I Quit was kinda bleh. Very run-of-the-mill and average WWE area 'brawling' before Cena gets awesome and fires away at Bradshaw's back. Everything post-chair shot was better, but I didn't love it. The TV spot was completely lame and the table spot was even lamer. It had it's moments like JBL constantly wrapping things around Cena's throat (and Cena looking like he was dying), and Cena throwing Bradshaw into the limo door before ripping it off with his own hands, but this had too much shit I didn't give a shit about.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Going straight through the Trips/Lesnar series now. The Mania match is not great. And Michael Cole needs to fuck off with his "throws". Seriously, Brock just did the German suplex into the pin, and Cole still called it a throw. Fuck I just hate that.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event 6/4- ***, was there for it and while it was a good match and maybe the best of the whole night's tapings, didn't love it. However the recent SD match, that gets ***1/4-***1/2 and was a great one. 

As far as TV MOTYC goes, so far my list is:

1) Shield/Hell No and Kingston Raw 5/20/2013
2) Shield/Taker and Hell No Raw 4/22/2013
3) Punk/Cena Raw 2/25/2013
4) Shield/Hell No Raw 5/27/2013
5) Shield/Jericho, Ryback, and Sheamus Raw 2/18/2013
6) Bryan/Rollins Raw 6/10/2013
7) Barrett/Sheamus Main Event 5/29/2013
8) Punk/Jericho Raw 2/4/2013
9) Bryan/Jericho Raw 2/11/2013
10) Punk/Ryback Raw 1/7/2013

DAT SHIELD AND BRYAN! Making TV matches actually a good portion of my whole MOTY list so far come to think of it.

Hell, just noticed every week in Feb has a match on this list.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just for reference, is there anybody out there who actually enjoys Henry/Ryback and/or Henry/Sheamus?

Going to check them out myself in a few days obviously for this Henry thingy list thingy, but I wanted to know if there was anybody in particular who would make a case for either of the two being good. EVAN NEEDS TO KNOW THIS SHIT, aw I'm talking in the third person again. IIRC Henry-Cena the night after Mania was like 2 minutes of non-stop awesomeness as well.

BTW, I NEED YOUR HELP. I'M GETTING DESTROYED AGAIN. VOTES PLZ.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

what do you guys think about Undertaker vs Batista from WM23?

It's **** at least IMO


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Batista-Taker ****1/2

Great titan-like battle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Edit: two things Im embarrassed as a wrestling fan to say 1) I have never seen a rock/austin match ever 2) Ive never seen a Dustin rhodes/goldust match ever as well


How does that happen? You a tad "newer" as a fan or been watching most of your life?



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Just for reference, is there anybody out there who actually enjoys Henry/Ryback and/or Henry/Sheamus?
> 
> Going to check them out myself in a few days obviously for this Henry thingy list thingy, but I wanted to know if there was anybody in particular who would make a case for either of the two being good. EVAN NEEDS TO KNOW THIS SHIT, aw I'm talking in the third person again. IIRC Henry-Cena the night after Mania was like 2 minutes of non-stop awesomeness as well.
> 
> BTW, I NEED YOUR HELP. I'M GETTING DESTROYED AGAIN. VOTES PLZ.


Only seen Henry vs Ryback once still, but I liked it. Henry vs Sheamus strap match isn't good. It's lame, fleeting, and Henry was visibly hurt during it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just pulled up Henry/Ryback match real quick. Not really worth seeing if you haven't already. Henry dominates a bit, gets THREE brief bear hugs, then Ryback hits his meathook, gets Henry up, Henry falls on him, and gets the three count. Crowd was behind Henry a good bit. Would have liked to have heard him do more trash talking, though.

Strap match was silly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll run through WrestleMania 29 again soon. Possibly on Tuesday. Been wanting to, yet something more current always comes up instead. Don't think my opinion will vary much. It's more of a "I just want to watch WrestleMania 29" again type deal. Not watching Cena vs Rock II though. That's for sure.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

TWICE IN A LIFETIME


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

TWICE IN A LIFETIME


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Terrible.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Rock was worse, but Twice On A Lifetime was still horrid.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2013 has been a pretty terrible year for go home matches on PPV's 

bar Trips/Lesnar ER, the rest have been pretty abysmal;

Punk/Rock I & II, Cena/Rock, Cena/Ryback

**shudder**


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Luckily there has been more than enough good out there to make up for those poor closes on PPV.

Cena vs Henry. Yeah, I think we're on the right track for July.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

THATS WHAT I DO

watch dem ratingz skyrocket


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Anything worth catching on this past Smackdown?

Takes effort to download something that's not worth it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can you imagine a Rock vs Ryback match? :vince4 :batista3

Anyways, it seems like this year the PPV's have been consistently been raising in quality:
1 - Payback
2 - Extreme Rules
3 - WrestleMania
4 - Elimination Chamber
5 - Royal Rumble

This theory pratically confirms MITB will deliever :mark:


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'd put Wrestlemania above ER, but other than that, the list stands as it is. By the way, Everyone should watch Morrison-Mysterio from SD 2010, match is such a bite of awesomesauce. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If they get Summerslam right, that should be pretty fucking good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

iwatchwrestling said:


> *Sheamus/Big Show - Hell in a Cell 2012 ****1/4*
> 
> Pretty good video package, even though Sheamus on the mic is cringeworthy. Show really carried the promos. He's not so great as a face, but is a terrific heel worker. Show was really good in this match, and again, Sheamus' selling is good. I really like how when Sheamus tries to mount his comeback, Show counters the reverse chest punches, and counters the axe handle (flying and standing). Really, REALLY love how Big Show avoids the second Brogue kick and catches Sheamus pretty much in mid-air and landed the KO punch. Also, fuck that no-selling Atlanta crowd.


(Y) 

I haven't watched any wrestling outside of what happens on TV in ages. I don't know but I just don't seem to be in the mood lately. I go look at the collection to decide on something to watch and just meh, end up doing something else instead. Guess I'm taking something of a break. I have a feeling that if I watch anything I'll end up thinking its shit and I don't want to do that so I'm staying away from non weekly matches for a bit. When I'm ready I'll jump back into it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Anything worth catching on this past Smackdown?
> 
> Takes effort to download something that's not worth it.


Orton vs. Bryan was pretty good but they're capable of better, and the finish will lead to something better down the line. That's about it really.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Orton vs. Bryan was pretty good but they're capable of better, and the finish will lead to something better down the line. That's about it really.


Ahh righto, thanks for that.

I'll YT it


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Orton/Bryan on Raw should be great. I think they'll give it time and we'll get whatever finish they originally had planned for last week. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked Orton/Bryan on SmackDown, but did it bother anybody else they kind of just 'randomly' put he barricade spot in there? Unless I'm remembering wrong, that barricade backdrop was the final nail in the coffin in the Raw match, and here Bryan kind of has his outburst straight after it. Felt like a throwaway move. Shove that aside and it was a really good finish, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Ahh righto, thanks for that.
> 
> I'll YT it


Other than that, check out Paul Heyman's badass promo and Christian "meeting" The Shield.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleMania is still my pick for PPV of the year by a country mile and then some. Payback was solid, but only one match to go out of your way to see - Dolph vs Del Rio. WrestleMania had at least two, plus a really strong opener & a consistent undercard. Only thing about the show I didn't like was Cena vs Rock, tbhayley.

1) WrestleMania 29 (^^^)

2) Payback (Again ^^^)

3) Elimination Chamber _(Not bad. I mean it wasn't good, but it at least had three matches I got behind on it. Six man is tremendous. Plus, a Cesaro gem.)_

4) Extreme Rules _(complete one match show - A great match it was though in Brock vs Trips)_

5) Royal Rumble _(jesus this show was garbage)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kinda agree on the WM part. So many people saying it was a complete suckage of a show, a lot of 'em are the same that loved RR because of Rock winning.

Watching some big man matches reminded me of how AWESOME Henry vs Show Vengeance 2011 was. Super great match, that was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry vs Show OWNS. As if it wasn't awesome in a sub-six minute format at MITB. They topped it + a ton extra when Vengeance came around. Great match.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I may be the only one who likes Austin-Taker from BL' 2002. Such a lighthearted, fun scuffle. It insists on falling under the _not to be taken seriously_ label. Hilarious, :lol and ***1/2 for the rating.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fluze said:


> I may be the only one who likes Austin-Taker from BL' 2002. Such a lighthearted, fun scuffle. It insists on falling under the _not to be taken seriously_ label. Hilarious, :lol and ***1/2 for the rating.


I DETEST Austin vs Taker at Backlash 02. No chemistry between them whatsoever and I hated the ending of the match as well. Random brawling mixed in with little to no structure going for it. I thought it was pretty awful stuff between them. Then again, Taker and Austin never really had that much chemistry with each other to begin with to be fair. 

To each it's own though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To ask someone like me for a *AUSTIN/TAKER* match not to be taken seriously is like saying pretend The Avengers was a Inception-like super complex ride. Just doesn't do it for me personally. And these two are alongside Flair (who referee'd this match) as the GOATs imo.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Does anyone have my top 50 Taker list saved? I've lost it. I do remember AHB & Zep complementing me on it. Anyone???


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched this PPV, man Guerrero/Lesnar is amazing!


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Agreed.

Don't remember shit about the event besides that though, is that triple threat worth a watch? 12 minutes seems pretty quick.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

PPV's for 2013:

1) Payback, easily, by a million bazillion miles. Ziggler/Del Rio and Punk/Jericho were both awesome, then you have some great matches like the divas and the Shield tag, it was all good.

2) EC- Good PPV, Chamber and 6-man Shield tag were great, Punk/Rock was very good and well... rest of the PPV is kind of a blur.

3) WM29- Taker/Punk saved this show from being totally unwatchable, and I was there for the show. Unfortunately The Shield tag was the next best match and then after that can't remember anything being good, with the final two matches being awful. 

4) ER- Thought Cena/Ryback was good, Lesnar/HHH was mediocre but still at the very least an improvement on their Mania match. All around very "meh" show.

5) RR- Rock/Punk, while I have higher than probably anyone else, still wasn't great. Rumble match wasn't great for a rumble match either, Del Rio/Show was awful and well... can't recall the rest of the show. Just all around disappointment though.

And as for PPV main events this year:

1) Punk/Rock EC- ***1/4
2) Punk/Rock RR- ***
3) Lesnar/HHH ER- **1/2
4) Rock/Cena WM29- **
5) Cena/Ryback PB- **


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PPV Main Events This Year -

1. HHH-BROCK (ER) ~ ******
2. Punk-Rock (EC) ~ ** 1/2*
3. Cena-Ryback (PB) ~ ** 1/2*
4. Cena-Rock (WM) ~ *1/2 **
5. Punk-Rock (RR) ~ *DUD*

Anyways, to leave that little piece of awful behind.... Watching Henry's 2011 PPV run now, checked out Henry-Show from Vengeance last night and GOOD FUCKING GOD was it awesome. I mean, legit it could be a top five Henry match for me at this point. Checking out Henry-Sheamus from Summerslam right now, if it's anything like their Smackdown rematch then it's gonna be straight up MONEY.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Was just watching some Attitude Era bits and came across this. Haven't seen the full segment in a long time. Austin starts GOATing at the 23:42 mark.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

1. Brock vs HHH - ★★★★
2. Cena vs Rock - ★★¾
3. Rock vs Punk (RR) - ★★½
4. Rock vs Punk (EC) - ★★¼
5. Ryback vs Cena - ★★


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, Henry-Sheamus was great.

Time to check out the Henry-Orton PPV series (GOD I'm glad I own so many PPVs so I don't have to scour YOUTUBE for them). I find that Orton-Henry TV matches 90 percent of the time are bad by Henry standards, but I remember these big time PPV bouts being excellent so let's see what I think about this pair at NOC & HIAC. I'll check back in with my thoughts on Orton's FIP performances as well as Henry's control segments.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I really need to watch Wrestlemania 29 again but I'm not buying it until it goes on sale. I only have the live viewing to go off and I didn't enjoy it all that much on the night either tbh. Best PPV of the year? Not a clue. Probably ER I guess. I haven't seen Payback. I think that Summerslam has the potential to be a cracking card from top to bottom though if they keep going the way they did last week. Overall I'm not too high on PPV in 2013. TV is where it's at. 

*Shield vs. Jericho/Ryback/Seamus, Raw - ****
Shield vs. Taker/Kane/Bryan, Raw - ***3/4
Cena vs. Punk, Raw - ***3/4
Regal vs. Ohno, NXT - ***3/4
Shield vs. Orton/Kane/Bryan, SD - ***3/4
Bryan vs. Rollins, Raw - ***3/4*

Quality and I'm probably missing some stuff too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

TV Matches this year > PPV matches this year.

Cena-Punk is still my MOTY in all honesty. The only thing that has a prayer at this point in passing it is Punk-Taker from Mania, everything else really isn't even in both's league. I really like the two Brock-HHH matches, a ton of Shield matches, and a ton of Danielson matches, but I don't really think that they reach the pinnacle of what a "CLASSIC" is quite like Punk-Cena or Punk-Taker.

I'm almost 100 percent certain that Cena-Bryan & Punk-Brock will reach those ranks though, I'm sure of it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Henry/Orton NOC is ***3/4 stuff. Absolutely incredible storytelling.

Some ratings for MITB PPV stuff (MITB and World Title matches):

SD MITB '10: ****1/4
Rey/Swagger: ***1/2
Raw MITB '10: ****
Sheamus/Cena: ***

SD MITB '11: ****1/2
Raw MITB '11: ***1/2
Orton/Christian: ***3/4
Cena/Punk: *****

SD MITB '12: ***3/4
Sheamus/ADR: **1/2
Punk/Bryan: ****1/2
Raw MITB '12: ***1/2

Damn me if MITB doesn't have an impressive record already.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The ending to Henry-Orton from Night of Champions is just DAMN. I love the match, and the finish gives me fucking GOOSEBUMPS when I watch it. From Henry baiting Orton in and playing possum, to Orton's selling of the leg injury, to that FUCKING FANTASTIC FINISH. Match of the Night for sure, and one of the best matches of Henry's 2011 run and perhaps the best Orton performance from 2010 - Present.

THAT FUCKING PROMO AFTER THE MATCH.

"AND I'M NEVER...EVER...LOSING THIS!"

:henry1


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Henry/Orton from NOC is a ★★★¾ match for me too. Gotta rewatch their HIAC for the list and I'll also go through some of their TV stuff just in case.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

We haven't had a classic yet this year imo but I'm pretty strict when it comes to what I'd term a classic match. I liked Punk/Cena but they've had better and at this rate I kinda feel like seen one of their matches seen them all really. I remember actually calling the match as it played out which was rather funny at the time. Still a great match but not a classic for me. I can't really speak on Punk/Taker since I've only seen it the one time but I don't think it's up there either. I've loved a ton of Shield matches but I wouldn't classify any of them as classics. Trips/Brock at ER was great but also not a classic. The Shield match at ER is possibly my MOTY at this stage but still, not a classic. 

So yeah...no classics for me yet. I'm with you on Cena/Bryan though. My expectations for that match are probably unfair. Anything less than a classic and I'll be disappointed tbh. No clue what to expect from a Punk/Brock match but it's BORK so I'm sure I'll like it.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

ATF said:


> Henry/Orton NOC is ***3/4 stuff. Absolutely incredible storytelling.
> 
> Some ratings for MITB PPV stuff (MITB and World Title matches):
> 
> ...


SD MITB '10: ****
Rey/Swagger: *** 1/2
Raw MITB '10: *** 3/4
Sheamus/Cena: ** 

SD MITB '11: *** 3/4
Raw MITB '11: *** 1/4
Orton/Christian: *** 1/2
Cena/Punk: **** 1/2

SD MITB '12: *** 1/4
Sheamus/ADR: ** 
Punk/Bryan: ****
Raw MITB '12: *** 

The show does have a good history already and you can't go too wrong with entertaining ladder matches they feature. I'm really looking forward to Cena/Henry this year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Lesnar DOESN'T wrestle bad matches. CM Punk is probably the most "intelligent" worker in the company right now. BAM. Brute force Vs Intelligence.

Here's something to consider; Henry's status as a mic worker in the company. I'm watching some of these Promos in 2011 and GOOD FUCKING GOD wasn't he just the best at this point? His interviews at Night of Champions and Hell in a Cell are just... FUCK. The guy is a legit Top 3 mic worker in the company right now, arguably top two right next to Punk. That's a huge compliment seeing as how Punk is a fucking GOD on the stick.

Henry-Orton HIAC incoming. Henry interview got me HYPED.

& Anybody else think that Henry can get a MONSTER ovation in Philly for his biggest match ever?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Can't wait for this whole thing to end with :cena4 still our WWE Champion. 

THE CENATION RISES ABOVE ALL

:cena5

Henry's mic work is :lol in the good way. Only he can say he's going to stick his boot up somebody's rear end and make it sound badass.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

MITB has quickly developed a reputation for being a great show. Hopefully it continues this year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CENA ON TOUR is a great concept though, love those title reigns where the challengers all line up for a shot at the champ. Especially since this is Cena's first decent opponent on PPV since forever ago.

Cena slaying monsters is like, TOTALLY 2007 THOUGH GOSH.

:cena5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which would everyone rather see?

Henry beats Cena for the title, Daniel Bryan wins MITB and cashes in at SS against Henry.

Or

Cena beats Henry to retain the title, Daniel Bryan wins MITB and cashes in at SS against Cena.

Before Henry got injured during his epic run in 2011 it did seem that they were potentially teasing Bryan eventually going over Henry for the title by using his MITB title shot, but plans changed. Henry is getting back into MONSTER mode again and Bryan looks to be the favourite to win MITB again, which puts things right back to where they were in 2001. So should they go with what were (possibly) the original plans back then? Or have Bryan go up against CENA? I would have high, high fucking expectations for both matches since, well, Bryan in a main event situation is pretty much money in the bank (pun intended? I dunno)... and Henry in MONSTER mode is a perfect match for a guy like Bryan, and Cena's stuff with Punk is probably a really good example of how he could/would work with the guy too.

Part of me wants to see HENERY/BRYAN, with Bryan finally vanquishing the monster to prove he isn't the "weak link"... but is there any better way to prove such a thing than beating CENA? I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT!


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

For Bryan I wouldn't mind if he didn't win the WWE Title until WrestleMania XXX. It has been a while since we have had that big emotional journey to the title on the biggest show of the year with Royal Rumble win and all. You could argue Cena was that story but I don't think a lot of people FELT that struggle and were as emotionally invested like a Benoit or Eddie world title victory. Bryan winning the Royal Rumble and making the WWE Champion tap out at WrestleMania would be a perfect story. So maybe in the lead to that Bryan does win MITB again and perhaps loses to Cena in the main event of SummerSlam but after a classic match. Think back to Benoit/Angle a year before WrestleMania XX.It would add even more build to Bryan's chase for the gold.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm telling you man, Punk-Cena-Bryan would be perfect for the main event of Wrestlemania XXX alongside Brock Vs Taker.

In terms of the Henry situation, I'd rather have Henry win due to wanting him to reach that "pinnacle" of his career that he so desperately deserves and needs to go down as an all time great. However, I don't think they'll pull the trigger on a Bryan-Cena match at Summerslam and I believe it's honestly a whole bunch of hocus pocus. It seems at the moment that Bryan's going to be tied up with this whole HHH situation for a while. Triple H Vs Bryan = HOT DIGGITY DAMN.

Just give Henry his match and his moment in the spotlight at MITB, have him get a monster ovation and have him put on a fantastic performance and I think I'll be happy regardless of the result. The ideal scenario would be for Henry to take the belt but drop it back in the rematch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The best way for Bryan to win the WWE Title for me is this scenario.

- Daniel Bryan wins the Royal Rumble
- Triple H suddenly returns to in-ring action in the elimination chamber next year
- HHH wins the WWE Championship inside the chamber
- Bryan using his Rumble win to face HHH at Wrestlemania
- Bryan makes HHH tap out clean in the middle of the ring at Wrestlemania XXX

Benoit's victory replayed in form of Bryan! Maybe you can add the former WWE Champion from EC to make it a triple threat.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

If we get a HEEL HHH as WWE Champion again.

I might have a heart attack and die.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

PPV main events this year:

1. Brock/HHH - *****1/4*
2. Rock/Punk EC - ****
3. Ryback/Cena - **1/2*
4. Rock/Cena - **1/4*
5. Rock/Punk RR - *DUD*

PPV's this year:

1. *Payback* - Most consistent event for me, with Ziggler/ADR, Punk/Jericho, divas, triple threat, Shield tag all being watchable and a couple very good. Some poor stuff in there two, shame the main event let the event down.

2. *Elimination Chamber* - Chamber match and Shield six man make this watchable, everyone else is forgettable.

3. *Wrestlemania* - Perhaps a slightly better show than EC but it's 'Mania, so expectations were higher and they failed to deliver, bar Punk/Taker. Shield match and Brock/HHH was good and there was some other ok stuff but it all felt so flat. Main event lets the show down again.

4. *Extreme Rules* - Someone said it earlier - one match card. Loved HHH/Brock but everything else here was poor.

5. *Royal Rumble* - Just a bad show with one of the worst Rumbles in recent memory and an awful main event.

--------------------------------------------

As others have said, having Bryan win the WWE Title at WMXXX would be awesome at a great payoff that every fan could get behind. I love Evan's idea of a Benoit homage with Bryan/Cena/Punk main eventing and Cena tapping out. It's probably a pipedream though, though if Rock doesn't come back (let's hope) then we could have the triple threat and Taker/Lesnar this year. I could get behind those two main events for sure. 

Can't see Henry winning the WWE Title sadly, after all the build up to Cena finally winning back the title I think he's going to have a big reign, possibly until 'Mania. That match should be awesome though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/HHH should be good. If there's anyone that can get a great match out of HHH nowadays, it's Bryan.

Don't want HHH anywhere near the title. I'd much rather they have Henry win the belt, and keeps it until Mania where he drops it to Bryan, and meanwhile Bryan can have a feud with HHH to help prepare him credibility wise for his big win over Henry at Mania and solidify him as potentially the next top star depending on where they go with Cena and they can get off his dick.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> If we get a HEEL HHH as WWE Champion again.
> 
> I might have a heart attack and die.


If we get a HEEL HHH period I most definitely WILL have a heart attack and die. 

I want and think Henry deserves to win the WWE title at least once before he bows out so I'm pulling for him to win at MITB. What happens with Bryan I don't really know but I have no problem with holding off in his title win until Mania. I guess if Rock doesn't work Mania we could get Brock/Taker, Cena/Bryan and.........HHH/Punk? We've been saying the latter for the last 3 years now lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

quick thoughts
[email protected] cesaro/miz ec 13 is awsome man and underrated

- PPVs of the year
1)Payback
2)Wrestlemania
3)Extreme Rules

didnt see rr or ec 13 besides that miz/cesaro match and superfriends/shield 

Gonna rewatch punk/taker again but ziggler/del rio is my current MOTY, tv matches>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ppv matches. For some reason since the ec 3 man tag, shield matches havent bben that good on ppv

EDIT: I liked henry/orton sd matches better than their ppvs


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Brock... now that's a match we've been saying would happen for the last few years... though maybe not WM28, but for WM27 there was a lot of buzz about it before it was confirmed Lesnar couldn't due to Dana White (?) refusing to let it happen, and well then for WM29 for almost the year prior to that. 

Punk/HHH, I'm not sure if I want to see it anymore. I think Punk has already passed everything he could gain by working with HHH after he worked with Taker and Rock. Now he's also working with Lesnar and tbh, I think there's a fair chance he could win that and if he does, he has nothing to gain from going over HHH anymore besides getting a win back. And I have my doubts about the program itself unless they turn HHH heel and they aren't they aren't just taking cheap shots on the mic for weeks again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Id sooner Brock win the title than giving it HHH, even he does 'turn heel'


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Now BROCK winning the WWE Title... that's something I could potentially get behind. Although he did look awesome with the World Title and while I would've initially thought he was too big for that and still partly do, maybe that's just what that belt needs to become important again. Only thing is he couldn't have a long run unless he works full-time TV shows again, which I'm sure he's not rushing to do.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Power.Power.Power


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Perhaps a BROCK-DOLPH feud is why they turned Dolph in the first place.

ANOTHER VOTING PLUG. VOTE FOR ME. I have Piper Vs Hansen in a Bullrope Match, & not the shitty kind!

:brock


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Went through some Orton vs Henry and found another decent match between them from 14/10/2011 on Smackdown which goes for about 7 minutes. Watched HIAC too which was nearly a squash for most of it until Orton makes a great comeback only to fall victim to the WSS. Liked the post-match assault with the chair as Orton SLAMS that thing into Henry's chest. :lol

Also watched this gauntlet match of theirs from 2009 after The Bash where Henry just squashes WWE Champion, Orton with ease. It's where the gif below came from. Before that Orton had a good 3 minute match with Evan Bourne followed by Jack Swagger trolling everyone by standing outside the ring with a smile, getting counted out.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starting from the beginning of the new NXT series. 

I've missed quite a bit from it so I'm excited.

Edit: Orton/Bourne could have a sick singles match.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Lesnar shouldn't be wasted on people like Ziggler. He should be feuding with the big boys like Cena, Punk, Taker, and Rock to maximize his economic value. Even Sheamus, Orton, and DB would be better options.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't want Triple H to win the title, but HEEL GAME plz. 

I also think that at this point, Bryan pinning (or submitting) Cena is more of a deal than pinning Triple H, especially if Cena holds the belt for a long time. That probably sounds crazy, and if Cena is face and raises Bryan's arm at the end I may puke. 

I really think Henry's winning the title at MITB, then retaining at Summerslam. Have no idea who they're thinking about for the briefcases, but Bryan or Orton are the only ones that have been built up at all, and Orton probably isn't winning.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Went through some Orton vs Henry and found another decent match between them from 14/10/2011 on Smackdown which goes for about 7 minutes. Watched HIAC too which was nearly a squash for most of it until Orton makes a great comeback only to fall victim to the WSS. Liked the post-match assault with the chair as Orton SLAMS that thing into Henry's chest. :lol
> 
> Also watched this gauntlet match of theirs from 2009 after The Bash where Henry just squashes WWE Champion, Orton with ease. It's where the gif below came from. Before that Orton had a good 3 minute match with Evan Bourne followed by Jack Swagger trolling everyone by standing outside the ring with a smile, getting counted out.


C2D, I really want to watch a lot of Orton for some reason , where are you finding all your matches? Just on YT and DM, or Downloads as well?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I think after tonight we'll have a better indication of whether or not Henry is winning the belt in three weeks.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

You all need to watch this, a seriously brilliant fan promo. I'm so :mark: for this program.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> C2D, I really want to watch a lot of Orton for some reason , where are you finding all your matches? Just on YT and DM, or Downloads as well?


All three, but most of them are available on YT or DM (or other sites that you can google your way into) so they are easily accessible.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cut my legs off and call me shorty, but I actually somewhat enjoyed that Ryback/Khali encounter. Short and to the point, and that Shellshock looked pretty impressive.

Am I wrong for thinking that the Lawler/Flair match was kind of disappointing? The pre/post-match promos were really good, but the match itself could have been so much better.

*EDIT:*

Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton: ****1/2*


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton: ***1/2

Great match here. The booking was great, Orton looked strong by not tapping until a fucking kendo stick was up against his face. Bryan looked great, good for him. Could have used a much better crowd, but yeah, the whole fucking night should have. The pricks.

That match and the promo of the year from Heyman/Punk were the only two things worth a damn from this show. Punk and Heyman were incredible, but man that match that followed was such shit. What ridiculous booking. Putting Punk with those three guys? First of all, the match never should have even happened. And second of all, it shouldn't have been longer than 2 minutes. You have a guy about to challenge BROCK LESNAR get owned most of the match by Darren Young. Don't get it. 

And now next week it's PTP vs. McGillicutty and CM PUNK? God damn does that look unbalanced.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Street Fight: Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton ***3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Orton Raw 6/24- ***3/4, great match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't know what to rate Orton vs Bryan yet. Gotta rewatch it tomorrow but a chair shot to the head was pretty cool from the beginning and they just continued to work well and even use the stipulation to its full potential.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

raw was great tonite once again
-liking what their doing with punk/heyman/brock/axel
-ADR/Y2j was really good
-punk/young was good for the time it got
- dbryan/orton was ok, had its rough spots but pretty good

for some reason I dont think all 7 will be in the mitb. However it they all are, I HATE spotfest matches but this has MOTY ***** all over it.

Who ever is dressing Henry, I need to give a call, he said not mens warehosue :lmao


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> - dbryan/orton was ok, had its rough spots but pretty good


Ok my ass

**** all the way. Best match on Raw this year Orton and Bryan made a dead crowd come alive.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

hardyorton said:


> Ok my ass
> 
> **** all the way. Best match on Raw this year Orton and Bryan made a dead crowd come alive.


Better than Punk/Cena?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hardyorton said:


> Ok my ass
> 
> **** all the way. *Best match on Raw this year* Orton and Bryan made a dead crowd come alive.


:harden slow down there young buck can name 8 raw matches better with ease. It was good match no need to go overboard with your love for the guy and it


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Bryan/Orton ***3/4

Bryan is running away with wrestler of the year right now.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Well since wargames dvd is coming out any decent war games matches or rankings


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

96powerstroker said:


> Well since wargames dvd is coming out any decent war games matches or rankings


You have the funniest username on this forum


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Bryan/Orton ***3/4. Easily one of the best TV matches of the year. 

Solid show, by the way. MitB looks good.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Yea its my user for everything. Its just my year and motor in my truck. 

Anyways back to my wargames question


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would go ***1/2 on Bryan/Orton but I'll need to watch again.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Bryan/Orton was ******, these two have amazing chemistry, probably some of the best chemistry in WWE at this point, although Danielson and anyone at this point is nearly guaranteed gold.

Also, Jericho/ADR was a solid ***** affair, good shit, marked for the cross arm reversal.

MITB so far looks stacked, SD MITB will probably look like Axel/Sandow/Rhodes/Barrett/Swagger/Cesaro/Miz if I had to guess, still pretty solid MITB match. RAW one is loaded, though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Raw one has 4 of the top 5 guys in the company, a returning RVD, a recently returned Christian, and Kane. 

Maybe SD has only heels.  Barrett/Sandow/Rhodes/Cesaro/Axel/Swagger/Faaaaaandaaaaaaaangooooooooo (if he's ready by then).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Really hope Gabriel and/or Bourne make the SD MITB.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, as for Raw MITB, looks like Bryan's winning that one... unless... no... nah... no fucking way they would...










... would they?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Im contemplating not buy any ppvs anymore. All the great matches are on tv these days. Wait Ive never brought a ppv :troll


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry Vs Big Show from Survivor Series REAAAALLLYYYY isn't as good as I remembered it being in all honesty. The VENGEANCE match on the other hand is a whole bunch of greatness personified, I know the TLC match is short but I have medium expectations. 

NOTE: I'm not saying I hate the Survivor Series match as I actually LOVE the match, I just think it's..... GOOD. That's as far as I'd go. Two star territory.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved the crowd in the SS '11 one. I don't remember much about the match itself though.

Vengeance once is awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah that's why I have such fond memories of the 2011 bout. The barricade spot, the BIG SHOW elbow off of the top rope, and the crowd are three reasons as to why that match is so DAMN FUN. The whole PPV to me is like the definition of a FUN event outside of the main event which you'll love if you're a Rocky mark. You had Morrison going ham for the last time, RYDER getting a gigantic pop, the awesome Punk-Del Rio match with the amazing Punk entrance, Sin Cara DYING, etc.

2011 was tons of fun for me, with a few shows actually being AWESOME.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah that's why I have such fond memories of the 2011 bout. The barricade spot, the BIG SHOW elbow off of the top rope, and the crowd are three reasons as to why that match is so DAMN FUN. The whole PPV to me is like the definition of a FUN event outside of the main event which you'll love if you're a Rocky mark. You had Morrison going ham for the last time, RYDER getting a gigantic pop, the awesome Punk-Del Rio match with the amazing Punk entrance, Sin Cara DYING, etc.
> 
> 2011 was tons of fun for me, with a few shows actually being AWESOME.


Agreed, I liked 2011. And damn, I forgot about the Morrison match. I remember enjoying it. 

God, Barrett and Rhodes standing tall in the 5v5. Look at them now. Especially Cody.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

From the Punk shoot all the way up to TLC when Punk held the WWE Title, Bryan held the WHC, & Ryder held the US Championship, the WWE seemed to be 'funner' to watch since perhaps like 2005 or something. Just an awesome, awesome time with a ton of great young talent going out there on TWO HOUR RAWS (seriously, fuck this 3 hour Raw shit, cut an hour off of the last two episodes of RAW and they're amazing) and Smackdowns and getting the job done. PIPE BOMB PUNK, COO GAME, HALL OF PAIN HENRY..

:mark:.

EDIT: LOLBARRETT actually beating Orton clean and appearing to get somewhat of a push. Blows my mind that nothing came out of Nexus for him though, him and Cena actually have some MAD chemistry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson. MITB bound please.

Neither Jericho vs Del Rio or Danielson vs Orton were anything special. Former was bad and latter was ok. The end result is all I cared for.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I kinda loved the ending to Orton/Bryan. It felt like a big transition in Bryan's career. Clean win over a big name, the use of the kendo stick in the submission. Loved it.

And I'm fully pulling for Bryan to win the MITB. Christian would be a personal mark out moment for me but I'd rather see DB.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As far as my "fandom" is concerned, anyone that isn't Orton winning MITB would be fine by me. Punker is Punker and the rest would a fresh change. I'm even open to RVD thanks to nostalgia. I don't have to explain why.  But def Danielson is my number one to take it all here.

Ryback vs Jericho is out of left field, but I'll bite. It's a match with two names who are well received by the fans and will build on it more in the coming weeks. Why the hell not, you know? Feels like a random "dream match" in the realm of WWE put together how Indie shows put cards up with matches that just could have appeal and nothing more. Lord knows Ryback can use a win on PPV. Then again Jericho could depart WWE on a high note...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, Jericho/Ryback kinda surprised me. I figured Vickie would just tell them they'd have a spot in the SD MITB or they'd wrestle next week for an 8th spot. I like it though. I think it could be a good match and it's a must win for Ryback.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Ryback/Jericho sounds pointless and awful. Ryback will get his first PPV win in a year though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. 

Part of me is almost starting to think there won't be a World Heavyweight Championship MITB match. If there is, the field is going to be VERY open for a new face to win. Not fulling ruling it out. _(why would they refer to one ladder match as "WWE Championship" specific, you know?)_ I'm not putting it past the company to only go one Ladder match this year. Hope I'm wrong. Dying for Cesaro to get his chance.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> Danielson. MITB bound please.
> 
> Neither Jericho vs Del Rio or Danielson vs Orton were anything special. Former was bad and latter was ok. The end result is all I cared for.


Bryan and orton was great. **** along with Cena/Punk and Bryan/Rollins Raw matches of the year


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd mark for Henry/Cena to be a replay of Henry/Orton NOC 2011.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Orton/Bryan-**** 15 minutes full of awesomeness, incredible match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

In good reference to a topic previously spoken on by myself, tonight's Street Fight felt like Cena vs JBL from Judgment Day '05. Typical nothing special WWE brawling stuff.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> In good reference to a topic previously spoken on by myself, tonight's Street Fight felt like Cena vs JBL from Judgment Day '05. Typical nothing special WWE brawling stuff.


No way Orton and Bryan was entertaining and had a dead crowd come alive. Both men but on a great showing. JBL/Cena was just shit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^ More like THE shit. JBL was just another level of sick in the pissed off big bully role in that match.

Anyways, Orton/Bryan was pretty excellent, around ****. *** to ADR/Jericho too. Jericho/Ryback is random but otherwise MITB looks great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

hardyorton said:


> No way Orton and Bryan was entertaining and had a dead crowd come alive. Both men but on a great showing. JBL/Cena was just shit.


:lmao

After every single one of my posts too. What is it with this treads and the mongs who lack subjectivity comprehension?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's the game of opinions. Sucks but whatever 

What is your most unpopular opinion? Mine would be that I think Angle vs Benoit RR sucks balls.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Foley/Hunter Rumble ain't that good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> That's the game of opinions. Sucks but whatever
> 
> What is your most unpopular opinion? Mine would be that I think Angle vs Benoit RR sucks balls.


Disagreeing is fine. That's life. Continuously going over and over to try and tell someone something is "right or wrong" on an opinion based subject _(nearly everything; but wrestling matches the topic here)_ is daft & extremely tiresome.

As for your question, ummm: I'm not big on Misawa vs Kawada's most popular match. For something a bit closer to the more popular american promotions over the years; I feel Jack Swagger is a great wrestler & horribly underrated thanks to stupid reasons such as his "look". I've discussed both topics in gross fashion over the last few months, tbhayley. Nothing new.

Guess you can say me thinking Bret vs Michaels Iron Man is the drizzling shits can be unpopular when compared to the realm of the "average" WWE fan mindset of what is supposed to be great or legendary from the company. b/c that match is poor in quality and horrendously worked I can't see how anyone enjoys it. I'd go as far to call it my least favorite WrestleMania match with the exception for those one or two matches that happened and were obviously doomed to be awful the moment they were signed. IE Lawler vs Cole.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

MITB looks like a very ghid PPV, even if its random, Jericho/Ryback can be a good match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Certainly. Ryback's had a pretty good year up to this point. Regardless if working with the right opponent assisted him or not, he's been in the thick of it. Certain he'll have better chemistry with Jericho on PPV than John-boy. Their match on Smackdown was pretty good, iirc.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> What is your most unpopular opinion? Mine would be that I think Angle vs Benoit RR sucks balls.


Triple H is the best heel in over the past 20 years, except maybe Vince.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

About to watch Raw, watching Raw the next day and not live is so much easier now, i wasted some years staying up late to watch it. More fool me. hope Orton/DBry delivers, i'm sure it will.

Henry promo please :mark:

EDIT: Punk and Heyman promo was gold, really enjoyed it but hell that brawl after with PTP was sloppy as shit, by all men involved.

EDIT II: Steph announcing the MITB match reminded me of when *Mike Adamle* announced the scramble match, it was awkward and the crowd really didn't care at all :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody you didn't like adr/y2j have to re watch to lose the live effect but I thought it was pretty good. Yea that guy gotta chill with the bryan love, literally any time he has a match he comes on here saying its the greatest thing since hbk/taker and were all wrong if we disagree


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't quite explain it, but part of me REALLY wants to see Danielson vs. RVD. Idk why but that just sounds like a classic. In fact part of me really wants to see RVD make another big run. Look at these potential matches fellas:

Mark Henry
Antonio Cesaro
Dolph Ziggler (could you imagine the bumping & overselling in that? :lol)
Christian (such an underrated ladder match they had)
Del Rio
CM PUNK (this is a dream match if I'm being honest)
Orton (again)
Sheamus
BROCK LESNAR


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Punk/RVD surely has to happen doesn't it? Like the current Brock/Punk feud, there's the Heyman factor. I'd be surprised if that isn't one of the early plans they have for him. It all depends on how long he's coming back for of course.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

for some reason Id think all 7 guys will be in the mitb match, I think some or atleast one will be pulled out maybe a we get a punk/axel and a sandow/sheamus again or something


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

If this happens whilst RVD's back. It will be a worthwhile return.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I wanna see RVD sell Cesaro's uppercut.



ATF said:


> What is your most unpopular opinion?


Kurt Angle v. Shane McMahon is maybe the stupidest match in WWE history.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Most Unpopular Opinion? The Ladder match between Jericho and HBK is generic and on Christian-Jericho's levels of typical. A ***3/4 match, that's it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd probably have it at **1/2.

EDIT - I ADDED A FUCKING TONGUE SMILEY. WHERE'S MY FUCKING TONGUE SMILEY!?      :cal- owait.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

oh yea unpopular opinions here we go

taker/angle nwo; hhh/foley rumble and hhh/batista HIAC are decent at best to me with former being alittle better then latters

edit: I dislike mitb matches, I dislike spotfest alot, its all about the WRASSLIN


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Forgot Triple H-Batista HIAC, felt like one big spot after another. No build up to them, No offenses in between.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> What is your most unpopular opinion? Mine would be that I think Angle vs Benoit RR sucks balls.


That I am truly in awe as to how excited everyone is for RVD, especially noting that his bumping has been completely negated thanks to his lacklustre performances in TNA where every single DDT was taken as a spiked move.

I'm not at all excited for his return, and he's going to have to work hard to make me appreciate his presence after the past year or so.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

You want an unpopular opinion.... 

Especially in this particular thread....

Mark Henry is meh, has never, ever had a match over ***1/2 and he completely sucked from his debut all the way to 2011


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

I gave Bryan/Orton from last night another watch. Amazing match. ****

DA GOAT is on fire.

:dazzler


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rewatched the main event some minutes ago. Excellent match and definitely worth the ★★★★. Only thing I thought was missing is some more wrestling but since it's a street fight, it was understandable.

TV MOTY? I don't know yet but I don't put much thought into this anyways and I need to go through too many matches to make up my mind. But it's definitely up there.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rewatched adr/y2j, I may be in the minority but I thought it was really good. Need to rewatch the main evet. I agree with C2D way too many matches to decide from for TVMOTY, I will say besides punk/taker and adr/ziggler the top 15 matches this year have been on tv

Henry/sheamus ss11 is awesome and got good time. ss 11 is probably my favorite ppv of the pg era, the build,matches,event all good


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> You want an unpopular opinion....
> 
> Especially in this particular thread....
> 
> Mark Henry is meh, has never, ever had a match over ***1/2 and he completely sucked from his debut all the way to 2011


I think that's a pretty popular opinion amongst most of us bar like FIVE people (Myself, YEAH, Cody... Ummm.. That might be it.. Referring to the second part anyways) believe it or not. Henry completely fucking ruled the earth in 2006 though, I don't really see how that can be debated.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I think that's a pretty popular opinion amongst most of us bar like FIVE people (Myself, YEAH, Cody... *Ummm.. That might be it*.. Referring to the second part anyways) believe it or not. Henry completely fucking ruled the earth in 2006 though, I don't really see how that can be debated.


bama2 I guess my love for henry doesnt matter anymore


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I SAID FIVE. YOU CAN BE NUMBER FOUR .

Going through some Henry promo work and segments at the moment, compelling shit we have right here. Also checked out the Street Fight from last night and SPOILERZ ~ It was alright. Nothing GREAT or REALLY good or anything, it was just great to see Danielson get that win and to see talent prevail for once.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I STILL GOT A LOT LEFT IN THE TANK!

:henry1

YOU THINK IT'S THAT EASY!?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Y'ALL A BUNCH A PUPPETS

:henry1


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Henry is awesome. His 2011 run and matches with Punk made me a fan. 

I can't help but feel that so far 2013 has been the most overrated year, in regards to matches. It's as if every week I'm seeing a match tossed four stars. I get it's all personal taste, but it's starting to come off like who's in the match matters a hell of a lot more than the match itself. Last night's street fight was good, nothing special, but I already see it getting the big four. Honestly the only three matches I can truly consider "great" are Punk/Cena, Punk/Taker and Shield/Hell No & Kingston. Great as in, classics I can remember a long time from now.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

THAT'S WHAT SCOTT STEINER DO!!!

:henry1


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Silverthorn said:


> THAT'S WHAT SCOTT STEINER DO!!!
> 
> :henry


*Starts a you fucked up chant*

dat ninja edit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's always funny when somebody wants to post that Mizark face and instead, it turns out to be Thierry Henry. :henry


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's see if I can conjure up my Four Star list so far this year, shall I?

***** 1/2*

CM Punk Vs John Cena (RAW 2/25)
CM Punk Vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIX)

******

Brock Lesnar Vs Triple H (Steel Cage; Extreme Rules)
The Shield Vs John Cena/Ryback/Sheamus (Elimination Chamber)
Daniel Bryan Vs Seth Rollins (RAW ... like 2 weeks ago )

Umm.... That actually might be it for me, probably forgetting a Shield tag or a Danielson match or something.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I SAID FIVE. *YOU CAN BE NUMBER FOUR .*
> 
> Going through some Henry promo work and segments at the moment, compelling shit we have right here. Also checked out the Street Fight from last night and SPOILERZ ~ It was alright. Nothing GREAT or REALLY good or anything, it was just great to see Danielson get that win and to see talent prevail for once.


:yes:yes in all honest you have to laugh at the miz, he has kinda giving himself a look of the guy with the best/nicest suits and fucking henry wears two suit and is the best dressed wrestler in the company :lol

Im gonna watch punker's matches with cena and taker from this year again


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Let's see if I can conjure up my Four Star list so far this year, shall I?
> 
> ***** 1/2*
> 
> ...


What did you rate Ziggler/ADR from Payback, Evan?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

OH SHIT.

**** 3/4 - *****

Think it's Del Rio's best work in the company by far.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

****+ this year so far:

Taker/Punk WM29
Shield/Hell No and Kofi Raw
Shield/Taker and Hell No Raw
Ziggler/Del Rio PB
Punk/Cena Raw

That's what I got for now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

From what i have seen, my ****+ matches:

Taker/Punk WM29
Shield/Super Friends EC
Shield/Taker and Hell No Raw
Ziggler/Del Rio PB
Punk/Cena Raw (not actually 100% on this one, sure i had it at ***3/4 first time i saw it)







Oh and Cena/Ryback PB. :troll


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

My list thus far:

1. CM Punk vs. Undertaker - Wrestlemania XXIV: ****1/2
2. CM Punk vs. John Cena - RAW 2/25: ****1/2
3. The Shield vs. Team Hell No and Kofi Kingston: ****1/4
4. The Shield vs. Ryback, Cena and Sheamus - Elimination Chamber: ***3/4
5. Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins - RAW: ***3/4
6. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - RAW: ***3/4


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I didn't really think The Shield/Super Friends match was all that great. I have it at ***1/2. I liked the Chamber match a lot more that night.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seems like i need to watch _The Shield vs. Team Hell No and Kofi Kingston_.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yes you do, Zep. It's awesome. My second best MOTY currently, and second best Shield match.



Dark Church said:


> I didn't really think The Shield/Super Friends match was all that great. I have it at ***1/2. I liked the Chamber match a lot more that night.


Yay, someone else that feels this way!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

A lot of Shield matches aren't that great. The only two I have over **** is vs. Kingston/Hell No and the TLC match in 2012. There's a bunch of Shield matches floating in the threes though, which is still impressive. Their one with Taker is probably the most overrated of the bunch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so I checked out punk/cena and punk/taker again, but hold up well the former is probly their 2nd best of their series behind mitb imo

so I current have Punk/taker=ziggler/del rio as tie for MOTY

their no clear cut favorite anymore though like a couple months ago. The shield/RKOno sd, shield/BOOMno and a one with cena I think may 13 are the omly ones I consider very good


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Fluze said:


> Most Unpopular Opinion? The Ladder match between Jericho and HBK is generic and on Christian-Jericho's levels of typical. A ***3/4 match, that's it.



I'd agree with this. I've never been a fan of the Jericho v Michaels ladder match. 



I watched WrestleMania XV recently and it might be my least favourite 'Mania. The crowd were hot for just about everything on the show but there was very little decent wrestling. It was typical Attitude Era booking with stupid angles, pointless matches and at least two DQ finishes. Rock v Austin is a decent brawl but not up to main event material in my eyes. There's about 15mins of pissing around before it gets started. The rolling referee was a joke, pilled up Michaels saying he was banning McMahon from ringside and then changing his mind two seconds later was cringeworthy. Vince throwing his oar into Austin's business for me was a year old story that outstayed its welcome - besides Vince was almost a tweener since he had a side-feud going with 'Taker. I wouldn't give Rock v Austin more than ***, to hell with how hot the crowd was!


I can't believe there's anybody who doesn't dig how awesome Cactus v Triple H street fight is. It came at just the right time when the main event scene needed a big match. Foley was in his best shape in years, it put HHH over as a serious contender and was just excellent in every respect. It was outrageous that it didn't go on last playing second fiddle to a piss poor 3- man Rumble match


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Wrestlemania XV was weak as far as wrestling goes but I'm still entertained by it. Doesn't hurt that it was one of my first PPV's I ever saw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Always love this, resonates so well now too.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Random thought: I don't think we'll get Steve Austin wrestling at WrestleMania again. I can't see him wrestling for any less than what The Rock got paid and in the same spot but I doubt Vince and Triple H would bring Austin in to do a similar programme like what they did with Rock. All the big stars of the last 20 years have returned to do a match at 'Mania in the last few years (Bret, Rock, Brock, HBK has been involved in two matches since retiring already). It's really only Angle and Austin who have yet to return for a match , though Austin's obviously been involved in WMania angles since 2003 but he's been quiet the last few years.

Personally I'd like to see next year's Mania main event built around two guys who haven't headlined 'Mania like Punk or Bryan but pigs will fly before we see that I'd say. The main event is bound to be Taker v Brock.

Not since HHH put over Batista at 'Mania 21 has someone been "made" in the main event (though I use that term lightly considering Dave was crap).


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I will have to watch both Orton/Hell No vs Shield matches, Orton/Danielson from last Smackdown and Danielson/Rollins before I can make a Top 10 for the year.

Oh yea, Sheamus has apparently been killing it on Main Event as well, have to check that out

Mark Henry has been tearing it up for years, a lot of people didn't seem to notice until his Hall of Pain run in 2011, but he has been fucking killing it for a good part of his career


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

His run as ECW Champ was pretty awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Cody you didn't like adr/y2j have to re watch to lose the live effect but I thought it was pretty good. Yea that guy gotta chill with the bryan love, literally any time he has a match he comes on here saying its the greatest thing since hbk/taker and were all wrong if we disagree


Already did. It's like a worse version of Punk vs Jericho from Payback. A lot of the start was off and sloppy then it just turned into "lets do big moves b/c nothing else in this match has turned out very well". Wasn't for me.

Both rematches we got on RAW last night were done better on Smackdown a few days prior.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea I hear you I should check those out, nah I meant I should rewatch it. I liked it a lot it picked up well towards the end.


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

An Unpopular opinion? 

Cm Punk Vs Y2J at W, 28. Sucked. And was boring.

Trips vs Stone Cold at NWO 2001 was a ***** match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My current WWE MOTYC list:

1. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (Wrestlemania 29) **** 1/4
2. #1 Contender's Match: John Cena vs. CM Punk (WWE RAW 2/25) **** 1/4
3. The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston (WWE RAW 5/20) ****
4. No Holds Barred: Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 29) ****
5. Elimination Chamber Match: Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kane vs. Mark Henry - ****
6. The Shield vs. John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback (WWE Elimination Chamber) ****
7. The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton (WWE RAW 6/3) ****

The only one that _could _come off that list would be #7. Still yet to see Payback, Orton/Bryan from last night, Shield's first loss, and Cesaro/Sami.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched the second disc of the Smackdown Ten Year Anniversary set. My goodness at Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs Team Angle. Is this on dailymotion? Don't know. Go look for it, people. It's latter May of '03. Great match, great performances, great ending. How many strong tag matches did Smackdown have in 2003 alone? I'm counting quite a bit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm gonna go **** on Bryan/Orton even though commercial sucked up a good portion of the match. I don't care though, it was a great match that had me on the edge of my seat. Loved the ending with the no-lock with the kendo stick. As a matter of fact, I loved the entire story of the kendo stick in the match. I thought the match had great pacing, selling and Bryan shined well throughout the match. Goddamn, that was a hot match. MOTY thus far for me. Only thing that really rivals it is Cena/Punk from RAW. Looks like RAW has produced better matches than PPVs this year.

EDIT: Oh my God, Bryan/Orton really overshadowed ADR/Jericho. That was a great match as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Watched the second disc of the Smackdown Ten Year Anniversary set. My goodness at Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri vs Team Angle. Is this on dailymotion? Don't know. Go look for it, people. It's latter May of '03. Great match, great performances, great ending. How many strong tag matches did Smackdown have in 2003 alone? I'm counting quite a bit.


I KNOW ONE! 

8/14/03

Look it up people!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit/Rhyno were an awesome team. Their match with Los Guerreros in March of 2003 is highly recommended.

My unpopular opinion would probably be that Cena's 2007 is kinda overrated, especially due to his poor television showing. However, I do not think that is that big of an unpopular opinion. I still give him props for that JD match with Khali.

My other unpopular opinion is so crazy that nobody here can handle it. If I say it, I will run the risk of having my house burnt down.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was a given with my post 8*D

--------------

WWE MOTYC up to this point:



Spoiler: a big list



1) WWE Championship - Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match
CM Punk(c) vs Ryback - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 1/7)

2) Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2 (Main Event - 1/9)

3) Kane & Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 2/1)

4) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 2/4)

5) Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger - ***1/2 (NXT - 2/6)

6) NXT Tag Team Championship Tournament Finals
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - ***1/2 (NXT - 2/13)

7) John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - ****1/4 (Elimination Chamber - 2/17)

8) Chris Jericho, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 2/18)

9) John Cena vs CM Punk - **** (Monday Night RAW - 2/25)

10) The Shield vs Big Show, Sheamus, & Randy Orton - ***1/2 (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

11) The Undertaker vs CM Punk - ****1/4 (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

12) No Holds Barred Match
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - **** (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

13) William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - ****1/4 (NXT - 4/10)

14) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/19)

15) The Shield vs The Undertaker, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/22)

16) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Adrian Neville - ***1/2 (NXT - 4/24)

17) No Holds Barred Match
Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 4/26)

18) Big Show vs Sheamus - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 4/26)

19) The Shield vs John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 4/29)

20) WWE United States Championship
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Antonio Cesaro - **** (Main Event - 5/1)

21) Ryback vs Daniel Bryan - ***3/4 (Smackdown - 5/3)

22) Elimination Match
John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - ***3/4 (Monday Night RAW - 5/13)

23) Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Alberto Del Rio vs Big Show, Mark Henry, & Jack Swagger - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 5/17)

24) Steel Cage Match
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - **** (Extreme Rules - 5/19)

25) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Kofi Kingston - ****1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 5/20)

26) WWE Tag Team Championship
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Kane & Daniel Bryan - **** (Monday Night RAW - 5/27)

27) Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - **** (Main Event - 5/29)

28) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

29) Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - ***1/2 (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

30) NXT Tag Team Championship
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves - ***1/2 (NXT - 6/5)

31) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - **** (Main Event - 6/5)

32) Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - **** (Monday Night RAW - 6/10)

33) Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - **** (NXT - 6/12)

34) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 6/14)

35) Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton vs The Shield - ***1/2 (Smackdown - 6/14)

36) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs Alberto Del Rio - **** (Payback - 6/16)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, I don't think saying "Cena's 2007 run" is overrated is an unpopular opinion tbh. That's kinda when he turned most people away. Cena amrks like myself think that it was a pretty freaking awesome run though.

Since we're playing the unpopular opinions game, thought I might chime in.

Austin/HHH 3SOH sucks and is nowhere near a 5 star match.
HHH/Batista HIAC is also overrated
HHH/Taker WM 28 is the most overrated WM match of all time.
Jericho/Punk from the same event is no better.

And last but not least, YES/NO Daniel Bryan is Bryan's best work in his entire career. Sorry but it's hard to watch Bryan's 2010 run. God, talk about bland. Only reason I marked back then was because of the hype. My taste in wrestling evolves with each and every year and there is no way my taste in 2013 would allow me to like 2010 Daniel Bryan. Don't even get me started on indy Bryan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think I really need to go back and rewatch Smackdown in 2003. Wasn't into matches last year as much as I am now and probably missed some of these tag matches. I do remember the Team Angle vs Los Guerreros/Tajiri stuff being awesome, though. The ladder match from Judgment Day stands out the most of the bunch.

And Corey, is the tag match involving Rey and Kidman that you constantly bring up the one where they win the tag titles and get a round of applause backstage afterwards? If so, I need to check that out since I made the dumb decision of skipping through some of it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Los Guerreros vs Chuck Palumbo (Silverthorn's favorite wrestler of course) & Johnny Stamboli was also a fun tag match from Smackdown 03. It was better than I remember it being in the last watch. 

The A-Train & Big Show pairing owned that year as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> And Corey, is the tag match involving Rey and Kidman that you constantly bring up the one where they win the tag titles and get a round of applause backstage afterwards? If so, I need to check that out since I made the dumb decision of skipping through some of it.


No sir it isn't, WGTT retain in this one but it's a barnburner for sure. Unsure of the date where they actually win the belts.

EDIT: Wait, I don't think Rey & Kidman were ever champs...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think you guys are getting Mysterio & Kidman's "win" confused with Kidman & London's win. Mysterio & Kidman never won the tag gold in WWE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, I got Rey mixed up with London for some reason. I can figure out the rest for myself now.

To add to the tag match love, I just finished the final Raw before No Way Out 07 and the main event was an awesome 8 man tag.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Man, i don't know know what it is but I love me some big name 8 man tags.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I credit southern style promotions for that.


----------



## RKing85 (Mar 22, 2010)

Going to pick up the War Games dvd tomorrow. Can't wait to watch it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2009 had a really good multi-man tag match on RAW after Wrestlemania that is worth a watch. The 2011 12-Man-Tag match was also awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only saw the 2009 ten man tag once. Good memories flow through my brain. Steamboat :mark:

Love the massive 2011 tag team match. Too much fun.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

RKing85 said:


> Going to pick up the War Games dvd tomorrow. Can't wait to watch it.


It's already out? :mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> My other unpopular opinion is so crazy that nobody here can handle it. If I say it, I will run the risk of having my house burnt down.


Dude I think Yokozuna is better than Kurt Angle, Chris Masters' 2010 is as good as HHH's 2000, and there are only a small handful of Undertaker matches better than the best Chavo Jr match. TELL US!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Here's an unpopular opinion of mine:

The 1992 Royal Rumble is nowhere near ***** and there's probably at least 3 Rumbles off the top of my head that I prefer ('01, '04, '07). There's no suspense in the ending whatsoever, it's not even like it's a great moment for Flair. Hogan just pulls Sid right over and Flair's the one who happens to be left in the ring. It's not a bad match by any means but people overrate and overhype the fuck out of it.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Oh yeah, speaking of Rumbles, I'm of the *unpopular* opinion that 2010 rumble smokes every other rumble.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Craaaap I never saw that Rumble. That and 2011 are the only two I haven't seen. How was 2011, people? It had like 53 guys in it or something.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

2010 is the one where Edge returns and wins right? Didn't think that was anything _too_ special, just remember a nice Sweet Chin Music on the apron.

2011 was a lot of fun (40 people is the actual count ) but at the time there was like zero mystery as to who was gonna win... for me at least. It was pretty enjoyable for the most part all the way through.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> 2010 is the one where Edge returns and wins right? Didn't think that was anything _too_ special, just remember a nice Sweet Chin Music on the apron.


Watch again imo. Most consistently entertaining rumble.



Yeah1993 said:


> Craaaap I never saw that Rumble. That and 2011 are the only two I haven't seen. How was 2011, people? It had like 53 guys in it or something.


2011 was pretty garbage by my books.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I thought parts of 2011 were good. The first half, mostly. Didn't really care for much after the 20th entrant or so.

2010 was great though. Especially the HBK stuff. Loved Punk's part in it too.

2007 Rumble trumps everything for me.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> Since we're playing the unpopular opinions game, thought I might chime in.
> *
> Austin/HHH 3SOH sucks and is nowhere near a 5 star match.*
> HHH/Batista HIAC is also overrated



*This,*
And to a lesser extent the second point.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Oh and my most unpopular opinion is my fandom of the Briscoe Brothers. I'M SORRY CODY.

That and I'm honestly just not as hyped for anything to do with Rock, Trips or Lesnar anymore.

I've honestly yet to see a 3SoH that I thought was good. I enjoyed the Austin/Trips one when I was younger but it didn't hold up for me at all.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Unpopular opinion...

I mean, around here that Brock/HHH trilogy is the worst big match-up trilogy ever... but that one I think I've shoved down people's throats enough. For a new one...

... hm...

I love The Shield as a unit, but the individual members themselves I wouldn't say I'm that fond of. They have their strengths but I just don't find much special about them each. Reigns is a big guy with some intensity (oh, and another unpopular opinion... Reigns spear ain't great usually), Rollins is fun to watch in the ring, and Ambrose is good on the mic, but at the same time Reigns is still far from the biggest guy on the roster and his in-ring work and mic work still leave a lot to be desired. Rollins is in the same boat as Cesaro, in that I like him for his in-ring work, but not much else really makes me jump up in excitement when he comes out by himself or to do mic work of any kind. Finally Ambrose, while I like him the most, I think his talents are greatly exaggerated. His mic work is inconsistent as he can cut a good promo, but then his character mannerisms can turn me off. And if you couldn't tell by that last sentence, his character I'm not that fond of either.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I guess I will share some unpopular opinions.

-Cena/Lesnar is overrated and nowhere near MOTY for 2012. In fact I thought the Cena/Kane match from Elimination Chamber was better.
-Ric Flair is a mediocre wrestler.
-Edge is one of the top thirty wrestlers of all time
-Bret Hart matches are boring and have literally put me to sleep on multiple occasions


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Dude I think Yokozuna is better than Kurt Angle, Chris Masters' 2010 is as good as HHH's 2000, and there are only a small handful of Undertaker matches better than the best Chavo Jr match. TELL US!


First I can easily see and I wouldn't argue at all.
Second is my opinion too.
Third? Get the flunk out of here.



Brye said:


> Oh and my most unpopular opinion is my fandom of the Briscoe Brothers. I'M SORRY CODY.


D'oh. 

It's only against Generico & Steen or Jay in singles. Rest...ehhhhhhhh. 

Actually, I say pardon the last year or so, I'm more in the minority of never caring for their work as a tag team.

-----------

Another unpopular opinion: I think the 2001 Royal Rumble sucks. Or it really isn't all that entertaining except for a bit Kane does.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Paul Heyman was a giant Albert mark in 2001. He called him the	Rabbi Of Retribution, Moya Of Misery and referred to his finisher as the Mushuginator. It is hilarious listening to him call his matches. It reminded me of JBL calling Gregory Helms on Smackdown.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

@HAILSABIN

Would certainly agree that Kane was the best thing in the '01 Rumble and I loved Austin. But watching it again the other day, it wasn't the masterpiece I remember it being when I was 9. But I could also say the same thing about almost every show in '99. As a kid I ate that stuff up, watching now, meh. 

As for the Briscoes, it's really a sentimental thing. When I started watching ROH I was big into their ******* character and they were some of the first guys I started to root for. I understand their matches aren't filled with much psychology or good pacing, but I go into them like I'd go into watching an awesome action film with a meh plot. You still get lots of fun out of it, but it's not the masterpiece that some of the Danielson/Nigel matches are.

I've been on an ROH binge today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> @HAILSABIN
> 
> Would certainly agree that Kane was the best thing in the '01 Rumble and I loved Austin. But watching it again the other day, it wasn't the masterpiece I remember it being when I was 9. But I could also say the same thing about almost every show in '99. As a kid I ate that stuff up, watching now, meh.
> 
> ...


I watched it not too long ago when I was viewing a bunch of Rumbles that day and it really didn't stick out to me. Like at all. It's weird b/c I remembered it being so strong and fun moment after fun moment. This time I was bored while watching. Don't know what changed to make it miss completely with me, but it did.

No reason to even explain yourself on the subject. You're a fan, I'm not, it's all good. Far be it for me to say I've never enjoyed a Briscoes match on any ROH shows; I've never quite hopped on the bandwagon, if you will. While I wanted Generico & Steen to defeat them every time in '07, I couldn't be mad after the matches b/c they were all so great. Those two wonderful Canadians brought out the absolute best in The Briscoes.

omg, what did you watch today? Btw, you ever see Samoa Joe vs Jay Briscoe Steel Cage Match from At Our Best? It's unreal. Right up there as one of my all time favorite cage matches, tbhayley. Got to be a potential top ten favorite ROH match ever too. That list is a work in progress, but it is plenty high.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> I watched it not too long ago when I was viewing a bunch of Rumbles that day and it really didn't stick out to me. Like at all. It's weird b/c I remembered it being so strong and fun moment after fun moment. This time I was bored while watching. Don't know what changed to make it miss completely with me, but it did.
> 
> No reason to even explain yourself on the subject. You're a fan, I'm not, it's all good. Far be it for me to say I've never enjoyed a Briscoes match on any ROH shows; I've never quite hopped on the bandwagon, if you will. While I wanted Generico & Steen to defeat them every time in '07, I couldn't be mad after the matches b/c they were all so great. Those two wonderful Canadians brought out the absolute best in The Briscoes.
> 
> omg, what did you watch today? Btw, you ever see Samoa Joe vs Jay Briscoe Steel Cage Match from At Our Best? It's unreal. Right up there as one of my all time favorite cage matches, tbhayley. Got to be a potential top ten favorite ROH match ever too. That list is a work in progress, but it is plenty high.


(Y)

I actually wanted Steenerico to win the tag titles then, haha. I feel like ROH should've done it at Man Up but it would have sucked if their celebration got cut off by the AOTF debut. Love those matches though.

Watched:
Tyler Black/Bryan Danielson - Forget the show but very early '08 - ****
Danielson/Claudio - Northern Navigation '08 - ****
Aries/Black - Unscripted III - ***1/4
Nigel/Marafuji - GBH V Night 2 - ****3/4
Briscoes/ANX - LADDER WAR III (forget name of show) - ***1/2 (Had some innovative spots but I wasn't HUGE into this.
Joe/Lethal vs Cide/Low Ki - Punk: The Final Chapter - ****1/4 (I can watch this match a million times)
Briscoes vs Necro/Matthews - Philly Street Fight (forget name of show) - ***1/2

And no, I haven't but that really interests me. Was that during Joe's reign?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Here's the ultimate unpopular opinion... I kinda dig Sin Cara.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> (Y)
> 
> I actually wanted Steenerico to win the tag titles then, haha. I feel like ROH should've done it at Man Up but it would have sucked if their celebration got cut off by the AOTF debut. Love those matches though.
> 
> ...


Shoot, man, I did too. Briscoe won again I was pretty wiped. Until I read about AOTF debuting and I was jazzed as holy hell to witness that. Didn't disappoint. :mark:

Assuming the Danielson vs Black match was their first if in early '08 - Breakout. I got Northern Navigation & Punk: The Final Chapter to both watch still. I should try and do so soon b/c I'm dying to see both matches. Actually talked about the Rotweillers tag recently and it's been put over HUGE.

Only Ladder War I thought ROH did particularly well was the original. Hated the second with The Wolves, truth be told I don't really remember the ANX one but dug that they won, & Generico vs Steen was solid, although more along the lines of a weak carbon copy of their excellent ladder match from PWG the year prior.

Yep, it happened in 2004 during Joe's 21 month title run. Ok, I can't find the link atm (which boggles my mind) but I'll search for it. Meanwhile, watch this forgotten classic:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...an-danielson_sport?search_algo=2#.UcqmffmR98E

Danielson vs Jimmy Jacobs from Unscripted II. This match continuously blows my mind.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Shoot, man, I did too. Briscoe won again I was pretty wiped. Until I read about AOTF debuting and I was jazzed as holy hell to witness that. Didn't disappoint. :mark:
> 
> Assuming the Danielson vs Black match was their first if in early '08 - Breakout. I got Northern Navigation & Punk: The Final Chapter to both watch still. I should try and do so soon b/c I'm dying to see both matches. Actually talked about the Rotweillers tag recently and it's been put over HUGE.
> 
> ...


Yes! It was indeed Breakout! And I'd give both of those a watch when you get a chance. The Rottweilers tag match is just so damn awesome.

My best friend was like 4th row for the PWG Steen/Generico ladder match. 

And I'll give that a look tomorrow as I need to head to bed, haha. Danielson work double duty that night? Since I think that's the show he tagged with Punk. I need to watch more Jacobs so this is a great suggestion.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Christian vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Kane vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Matt Hardy vs. The Big Show
World Heavyweight Championship Contract Money In The Bank Ladder Match, Money In The Bank 2010*

This review was made a few days ago, and only now I'm posting it here, so yeah.
Now here's a multi man ladder match that isn't a complete spotfest and tells a story. WHAT?! Oh yeah. Maybe even a Top 5 MITB match ever (WM 21, WM 23, WM 24 and Smackdown 2011 round off the rest). The key in this one is its awesome character work and flow. It's much more than just a random bunch of guys trying to get a briefcase and killing themselves with insane spots in the process. Everybody in this match plays their parallel roles to pretty much perfection, obviously more so for Kane, Show, Christian and Matt, the veterans. The 1st two were amazing as the dominant big guys (can't say the same about their 2012 MITB performance), whereas Christian and Matt played the long-running, deserving veterans spot on. One would be emotionally invested in either of them to win the match. It was, if I recall correctly, the longest MITB match to date, at around 27 minutes. Yup, they gave a freaking MITB match almost 30 minutes. Which allowed for a more methodical pace, but that only brought benefit to the match. It allowed that it didn't became an over-the-top spotfest, that's for sure. And I forgot to mention the other guys' work: it was alright. Like I said, everyone played their roles awesomely well.

MITB ain't nothing without one or two spots though, and here it was Kofi's turn to launch himself off a 20-foot ladder, with one of those Boom Drops, through McIntyre and the announce table. Sure some of you still recall that one, it was a pretty cool spot alright. And we got the 1st glimpse of the Big Show Ladder. Which, at the time, was actually original and funny. Kane won the MITB, and well deserved. Even if his World Title run (whom he started on the very same night he won it, he's the only person ever to cash in on the same night he won) was just for storyline progression sakes. Yup, great match indeed.
*****1/4*​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Orton/Bryan - ***3/4*

Once again we get a cracking match on Raw. TV is definitely where it's at this year. Nearly every week we're getting quality stuff and all involving the same people. 

:rollins :ambrose :reigns :bryan and :kane too I suppose lol. 

Fantastic win for Bryan and a great match overall. Funny how when finally given something meaningful to do Randy Orton comes alive, huh? I hope to see both of them stay on something of a hot streak as we roll into the summer. Bryan speaks for itself but it feels like ages since we've seen an actual Orton program with some considerable investment and thought behind it. Finish wasn't what I was expecting but I liked it and it only put Bryan over further. Brilliant stuff. If only we can get that damn heel turn now...


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

What are people's thoughts on Bob Backlund v Bret Hart from Superstars '94? I watched it for the 2nd time recently and can't get my head around it. Either Bob was wrestling a real looking amatuer style and keeping Bret on his toes or he was rusty and botchy. It's the former methinks but .... Idk. I really enjoyed the match for some reason. Part of me thinks Bob intentially tripped over Bret.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so were dropping bombs with the unpopular opinions here huh?

1) HHH is the most overrated high level superstar out there
2) Edge/Taker wm is a * to me boring
3) sin cara is a one of the top workers and I enjoy his matches
4) I HATE kurt angle
5) I HATE edge and only thought he was cool in 2006


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Since we're talking unpopular opinions, I'm gonna confess here and say I enjoyed Triple H vs. Michaels at Bad Blood '04. There, I said it. Guilty pleasure for me. Not the best Hell in a Cell match but it's far from the worst. I can understand where the hate comes from with it being too long and all, but I personally thought it was a perfect way of displaying how far both we're willing to go in order to destroy each other. There were tables, there were ladders, there were chairs, there was blood, etc. Won't go as far as saying the overall match was epic or amazing, but I think it's in the good/great category.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I too enjoyed that HBK/HHH HIAC match. Never quite got the hate for it.

I also enjoyed Nash/HHH from the previous years' event


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My unpopular opinion is easily the most unpopular. CM PUNK IS NOT THAT GOOD!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I also enjoyed Nash/HHH from the previous years' event


Im glad someone else said this lol, despite my current distain for HHH, i enjoyed it too


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Don't you mean CM PUNK IS NOT GOD.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Both those HIAC matches are ok in my book too. As Vladman said, the HBK one was a good feud ender even though it was a little slow. Can see what they were going for though. The Nash match is less good but enjoyable enough. Plus Foley as special referee!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> My unpopular opinion is easily the most unpopular. CM PUNK IS NOT THAT GOOD!


Blasphemy!


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Eddie Guerrero's death didn't play as big a part in Rey's big push as many people seem to think. He was heading to the top anyway.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

some more unpopular opinions

if bryan keeps this exact pace up for atleast until summerslam Dbryan 13>>>>>punk12, HHH 00, cena 07 etc


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Unpopular opinion, Triple H-Taker WM27 is an AMAZING match, so much better than their I & III bouts.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Best match of each WWE era?

Can't recall Golden as of right now, but I'll take the norm answer of Savage-Steamboat.

New Gen, It's a tie between Taker-HBK HIAC & Austin-Bret WM13.

Attitude Era ended at WM18, as per my beliefs, I'll select Austin-Angle from Summerslam 2001 as the best, with Trips-Jericho LMS coming in as the second.

Ruthless Agression Era, so many great matches within this specific era, consistency was definitely at its best. A four way tie with Eddie-Lesnar NWO, Cena-HBK RAW 2007, Taker-Lesnar HIAC & Cena-Umaga LMS. I wasn't as high as the majority on the triple threat from WM20.

PG Era, Taker-HBK WM 26, However the former match, Brock-Cena, Punk-Cena etc. are all good choices.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Unpopular opinion? Punk/Jericho at Wrestlemania sucked big time.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Unpopular opinions...

- Both Taker/HBK matches are the two most overrated WWE matches of all time.
- Trish Stratus and Lita are the two most overrated Divas of all time, neither would make my top five WWE Divas and if I actually put some effort in to watching, might not even make my top ten.
- JBL's commentary is horrid and I'd rather just have Michael Cole and Lawler


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> some more unpopular opinions
> 
> if bryan keeps this exact pace up for atleast until summerslam Dbryan 13>>>>>punk12, HHH 00, cena 07 etc


Not sure about the last two but definitely Punk. Man, Bryan is in the lead for Superstar of the Year thus far if you ask me. But, it's not up to me to decide that. It's the WWE Universe :cena4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Not sure about the last two but definitely Punk. Man, Bryan is in the lead for Superstar of the Year thus far if you ask me. But, it's not up to me to decide that. It's the WWE Universe :cena4


I'd take a ***3/4-4 once every week until ss-noc then horrible tv matches and two matches with shawn and LMS with umaga, and maybe that fatal 4 at backlash.

Top 5 MOTY so far, list may be alittle wacky

1) tie dolph/del rio payback = punk/cena raw
2) shield vs RKOno sd
3) sheamus/cesaro me
4) shemus/cesaro sd
5) dbryan/rollins raw

2-4 are interchangeable


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I have Ziggler-Alberto as MOTY, with Punk-Cena/Taker as seconds.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

My unpopular opinions:

Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania 19 is extremely overrated by the vast majority of people and also an example of people throwing five stars at a match before the match even begins.

These par-time appearances aren't doing anything for me anymore.

Taker vs Michaels WrestleMania 26 > Taker vs Michaels WrestleMania 25. Their WM 25 encounter does nothing for me.

And yeah, I have to agree with what Gamblor said about the Shield. Their aura is when they're together but I don't really care for their singles stuff.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

My unpopular opinions
Was never fond of Lesnar/Cena even with 3 viewings. Just didn't dig it at all.
I think Punk/Cena MITB is greatly overrated, but is still a very good match. Closer to ***1/2 than *****.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxW6m-NlfpM OH lawd :mark: :mark: a man can only dream

this would be a ********************** match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Eddie Guerrero's death didn't play as big a part in Rey's big push as many people seem to think. He was heading to the top anyway.


Yes & no. Would Rumble & WM have been there for Mysterio if Eddie didn't pass away? Hell no. That would have been someone else - Eddie himself probably (for Mania)

Perhaps later in the year Mysterio would have entered the main event fold. We'll never know, but certainly what Mysterio got post Eddie in 2006 was clearly via the loss.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Summer of Punk 2005 is seriously on the level of mid-80s Flair and 2000 HHH in terms of greatest heel title reigns ever. Holy crap the Jay Lethal and Roderick Strong matches are awesome.

Found a nice Top 100 list of best FMW matches of all-time. What is everybody's opinion on FMW and their premier wrestlers (Tanaka, Hayabusa, Gannosuke, etc.)?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thoughts on Bryan vs Y2J in NXT 2010?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Downloading the full SummerSlam pack right now. 63% done so far. :mark:

Think I'll do a top 30 best matches when it's SS time this year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Found a nice Top 100 list of best FMW matches of all-time. What is everybody's opinion on FMW and their premier wrestlers (Tanaka, Hayabusa, Gannosuke, etc.)?


Any chance you could post a link? FMW's the kind of thing I want to see more of but don't plan to for a while. Megumi Kudo v. Combat Toyoda is one of the best matches I've ever seen (probably the best gimmick match I've ever seen, depending on your term of 'gimmick match'...it's the best 'stupid gimmick'/death match I've seen, anyway), and I've loved most of the Hayabusa I've watched. Stuff like Funk v. Onita and Onita v. Aoyagi I thought was pretty great, too. Plus, Tarzan motherfucking Goto. Never been big on Masato Tanaka. His two matches with Hashimoto in Zero-One have always been my favourites of him.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Summer of Punk 2005 is seriously on the level of mid-80s Flair and 2000 HHH in terms of greatest heel title reigns ever. Holy crap the Jay Lethal and Roderick Strong matches are awesome.
> 
> Found a nice Top 100 list of best FMW matches of all-time. What is everybody's opinion on FMW and their premier wrestlers (Tanaka, Hayabusa, Gannosuke, etc.)?


I agree with the Summer of Punk on the same level as 2000 HHH, but I haven't seen enough mid-80s Flair to judge.

Also, if you could link that FMW pack, I'd love you forever :mark:, I need more Terry Funk in my life


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

http://fmwwrestling.us/FMW100.html

Here is the link. I did watch the first two matches on that list. Absolutely shocked at how amazing Toyoda/Kudo was, but I was honestly not impressed at all at Hayabusa/Tanaka.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't know if I could do a top five MOTY right now for WWE. Everything is really bunched together.

Oh and '05 Summer of Punk is unreal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Summer Of Punk is the best. Pretty much the angle/hook to get me into watching ROH & indies in general. All thanks to the Punker.

Not withstanding how my first ROH match I ever saw was AJ Styles vs Paul London. :side:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Atushi Onita vs. Terry Funk No Rope Exploding Barbwire Timebomb match is the only FMW match I can recal watching and it rules on so many different levels.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I only frequented matches with Mike Awesome/The Gladiator when it came to FMW. I liked 'em.

Yeah1993 aren't you the guy who kind of dislikes Mike Awesome?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> Yeah1993 aren't you the guy who kind of dislikes Mike Awesome?


IDK about dislike, but, yeah. I've never liked him. The best I've seen from him he was 'OK big man who can move' to me. I never saw ALL of those Tanaka matches, to be fair on him. I should watch them in order.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Still holds up beautifully. SOMEONE ELSE PLEASE WATCH THIS AND TELL ME HOW GREAT IT IS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> I agree with the Summer of Punk on the same level as 2000 HHH, but *I haven't seen enough mid-80s Flair to judge.
> *
> Also, if you could link that FMW pack, I'd love you forever :mark:, I need more Terry Funk in my life


you really should, otherworldly stuff specifically 85 and 89. I just watch a match with von erich from 85 in Hawaii and still in awe

Cody I checked out that 12 man tag from raw in 2011, really fun, loved ziggler's character back then


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Summer of Punk 2005 is seriously on the level of mid-80s Flair and 2000 HHH in terms of greatest heel title reigns ever. Holy crap the Jay Lethal and Roderick Strong matches are awesome.
> 
> Found a nice Top 100 list of best FMW matches of all-time. What is everybody's opinion on FMW and their premier wrestlers (Tanaka, Hayabusa, Gannosuke, etc.)?


Summer of Punk is what got me into independent wrestling, i'm of the opinion that Danielson's 05/06 ROH title reign is the greatest title reign of the 2000's.

Oh and Henry's WHC title reign>HHH's 2000 title reign (for a slightly unpopular opinion)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> Thoughts on Bryan vs Y2J in NXT 2010?


Nothing special, just a short TV match with a hot last couple minutes. ** 1/2


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> you really should, otherworldly stuff specifically 85 and 89. I just watch a match with von erich from 85 in Hawaii and still in awe
> 
> Cody I checked out that 12 man tag from raw in 2011, really fun, loved ziggler's character back then


Flair/Windham Battle of the belts in 86 is :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Another unpopular opinion:

Mid-2000s ROH is not only better than the Attitude Era, but it's the greatest period a wrestling company ever had. Had everything a company ever needed. Such a STACKED roster.

Still not my supreme unpopular opinion that will get my testicles cut off, but that opinion shall be revealed at the proper time.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

DO IT NOW!

I can't even imagine what it is.

Something about Austin or Bryan? Or HBK? Those are the only three people that I can see causing a reaction around here.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

*Unpopular opinions*

*Royal Rumble 92 is overrated.* It's a one man show and while Flair does a good job of carrying a 60 minute match, I don't think any of his co-stars get much of a chance to shine. In fact, the Rumble features one of the worst Rumble spots of all time where Savage eliminates himself but is allowed to continue. I'm a bigger fan of 1990 personally where the action felt crisper and more guys got a chance to shine. However, both Rumbles feel archaic since Patterson perfected the formula in 2001. Pretty much every Rumble since then has at least been watchable.

*HBK/Hart > Diesel/Taker. * It seems like the HBK/Hart match has received a lot of backlash in recent times and while it's deserved I still believe it's a better match than bloody Diesel/Taker which to me is your standard big man vs. big man match with an annoying contrivance which undercuts the suspense of a near fall. Hart/HBK has plenty of technical problems, but I like the story of HBK being on his game and frustrating Hart into making mistakes and of course the big finish. It's a better moment than match, but it was a great championship victory.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Another unpopular opinion:
> 
> Mid-2000s ROH is not only better than the Attitude Era, but it's the greatest period a wrestling company ever had. Had everything a company ever needed. Such a STACKED roster.
> 
> Still not my supreme unpopular opinion that will get my testicles cut off, but that opinion shall be revealed at the proper time.


I'm not sure that's an unpopular opinion. I would certainly put it up there with the AE but have never compared the two and don't really care to.

Not sure why you care that much what people think about your opinions.


----------



## Luchini (Apr 7, 2013)

I really wish they would release an Attitude Era blu ray set with all the Raw/Smackdown episodes from 1997-2001. It can be done with two or three dual blu-ray disc (100 GB). Of course they can edit out unimportant stuff for more space. I would like a RA era blu-ray episode set but you know.....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK about dislike, but, yeah. I've never liked him. The best I've seen from him he was 'OK big man who can move' to me. I never saw ALL of those Tanaka matches, to be fair on him. I should watch them in order.


I marked for the guy. He established quality squashes on the levels what seems to be enjoyed these days. I remember vs Kid Kash from Living Dangerously '00 - iirc - being awesome.

If you liked vs Tanaka vs November 2 Remember or One Night Stand '05, we're on good terms. 



redskins25 said:


> Cody I checked out that 12 man tag from raw in 2011, really fun, loved ziggler's character back then


Totally fun. A literal blast of a match. I'm thinking I should break out the DVD and watch it. Only it has commercials on it and it takes forever to fast forward while watching on my computer. ugggh.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Another unpopular opinion:
> 
> Mid-2000s ROH is not only better than the Attitude Era, but it's the greatest period a wrestling company ever had. Had everything a company ever needed. Such a STACKED roster.
> 
> Still not my supreme unpopular opinion that will get my testicles cut off, but that opinion shall be revealed at the proper time.


Anyone who thinks it is unpopular has obviously never seen ROH in their golden period. 8*D

Nah, I'm kidding of course. I do get a kick out of the Attitude Era, like any and everyone. Probably would say I prefer the ROH times over it though despite the wonderful cast of characters seen in the WWF & Ministry Undertaker. b/c I still think Ministry Undertaker is the greatest thing ever seen in WWF with only a tiny few close behind him.

I am a huge fan of NWA/WCW days. '89, '92, '93, & '94. Whew. Tip of the iceberg with the rest of the 80's rumbling about and it blows my mind. Does your opinion transcend towards International promotions too? b/c NJPW & NOAH could be contested. Hell, back to America with PWG from 2009 - 2012. This is without me chiming in my personal adoration for Chikara. Lord knows I worship that place from many of its years. I'm spanning this off into something more, but slap me sideways is it an interesting question to ponder with all those great eras from great companies.

----------

Got into a WWE 2002 binge right now. Watched SummerSlam & Unforgiven today. For those wondering, SummerSlam still holds up as probably the greatest WWF/WWE PPV ever seen. Easily top five, for me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The card of Summerslam '02 just flowed together so well. Perfect pairings in the undercard of RVD/Benoit, Flair/Jericho, Eddie/Edge and Angle/Rey. Then two huge main events in Brock/Rock and HHH/HBK.

I don't remember Test/Taker or the tag titles match. Would you recommend?

And ROH '05-'07 is some of the best times I remember watching wrestling. Me and two of my best friends would just constantly being buying the DVDs and spending hours. And those cheap PPVs they used to put on starting in '07, I bought them all for about a year and a half.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YES.

Taker vs Test is a good slugfest. Right up the alley of any enjoyable Taker match. Wasn't Test's best match, although it was good for a sub-nine minute affair and damn sure had to be his biggest match ever on PPV. *****

Tag Championship, omg that one is tremendous. Severely overlooked when it comes to this PPV. Fantastic chemistry among all four. Sweet tag format - and to steal a phrase you used b/c it fits so well here - flowed just about perfectly into a great bout with a kickin FIP segment/hot tag sequence. Ideal for anyone who likes tag wrestling, any of the men involved, & seeing a match where things simply click. Booker T & Goldust were unreal. ******


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> YES.
> 
> Taker vs Test is a good slugfest. Right up the alley of any enjoyable Taker match. Wasn't Test's best match, although it was good for a sub-nine minute affair and damn sure had to be his biggest match ever on PPV. *****
> 
> Tag Championship, omg that one is tremendous. Severely overlooked when it comes to this PPV. Fantastic chemistry among all four. Sweet tag format - and to steal a phrase you used b/c it fits so well here - flowed just about perfectly into a great bout with a kickin FIP segment/hot tag sequence. Ideal for anyone who likes tag wrestling, any of the men involved, & seeing a match where things simply click. Booker T & Goldust were unreal. ******


Holy shit. Gonna have to throw that DVD in tomorrow. 

Looking back on some of their matches, Booker/Dust was so such a better tag team than I remember them being when I watched that stuff live.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Unpopular opinion that I recently discovered. I like Jim Cornette.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Holy shit. Gonna have to throw that DVD in tomorrow.
> 
> Looking back on some of their matches, Booker/Dust was so such a better tag team than I remember them being when I watched that stuff live.


It's amazing how swift the event flies on by. While I wasn't too engrossed during Trips vs Michaels, even that didn't drag on like I fear it may have. Show is on a different level with quality considering how easy it is to watch.

No doubt. One of those things that was right under our noses for the longest time till we started to notice the exceptional work put forth in their matches. I won't look at it as a mistake. It was 2002, I was only 11-12 during the year and just wanted to see some wrestling, haha.

--------------

for the hell of it, some quick rundowns:

_*SummerSlam 2002*_

1) Angle vs Mysterio ~ *****1/2* 
_(I'm the biggest advocate of this sprint; I know)_

2) Jericho vs Flair ~ *****

3) Guerrero vs Edge ~ ****1/4*

4) Christian/Storm vs Booker/Goldust ~ ******

5) RVD vs Benoit ~ ****** 
_(I'll always adore this match.)_

6) Undertaker vs Test ~ *****

7) Triple H vs Michaels ~ ***1/2*

8) Brock vs Rock ~ ******


*---------------*​

*Unforgiven 2002*

0) Mysterio vs Chavo ~ ****1/4* 
_(these two always meshed wonderfully)_

1) Un-Americans vs Kane/Booker/Goldust/Bubba Ray Dudley ~ ****1/2* 
_(HOT~! Buckets of fun.)_

2) Jericho vs Flair ~ ****

3) Guerrero vs Edge ~ ****3/4*

4) Rosey & Jamal vs Billy & Chuck ~ **1/2* 
_(nothing special as an overall package, yet still kind of a hoot to check out.)_

5) Triple H vs RVD ~ ***** 
_(RVD totally carried Trips here.)_

6) Trish vs Molly ~ *1/2**

7) Angle vs Benoit ~ ****

8) Brock vs Undertaker ~ ****** 
mark: _Awesome manly bout. The non-finish doesn't even matter if you ask me.)_​


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> It's amazing how swift the event flies on by. While I wasn't too engrossed during Trips vs Michaels, even that didn't drag on like I fear it may have. Show is on a different level with quality considering how easy it is to watch.
> 
> No doubt. One of those things that was right under our noses for the longest time till we started to notice the exceptional work put forth in their matches. I won't look at it as a mistake. It was 2002, I was only 11-12 during the year and just wanted to see some wrestling, haha.
> 
> ...


I like HBK/Trips more than most of their matches, think I have it at like ***1/4 now. Used to be higher but I lost interest in my last watch.

It's funny how differently I viewed wrestling as a kid, compared to how I do now. I guess it's like that with everything though, haha.

** for Benoit/Angle? I've never seen the match but I'm guessing it was too slow or one of those spotty Angle matches? I actually don't think I've seen anything off Unforgiven '02.

And I always forget that RVD/Benoit is on that card, but it's such a great match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For as much as I dig most of Angle circa 2002, the Benoit match was very modern day Davey Richards type BS. Only not AS dreadful. It was random "feeling out" stuff even though they have wrestled more than enough to know how the other is. Nothing they did was new vs each other so that start that way right off the bat was unusual. Then it kind of just became about the flashy moves. Fans ate it up, Tazz orgasmed, I liked the overhead german suplex, and that's about it. I don't have any interest in watching it again, tbf.

Oh and a bit of a personal gripe but you heard Angle call quite a few spots throughout the match. "Roll me." "Last one" following the chain of german suplexes. Didn't help their cause.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> For as much as I dig most of Angle circa 2002, the Benoit match was very modern day Davey Richards type BS. Only not AS dreadful. It was random "feeling out" stuff even though they have wrestled more than enough to know how the other is. Nothing they did was new vs each other so that start that way right off the bat was unusual. Then it kind of just became about the flashy moves. Fans ate it up, Tazz orgasmed, I liked the overhead german suplex, and that's about it. I don't have any interest in watching it again, tbf.
> 
> Oh and a bit of a personal gripe but you heard Angle call quite a few spots throughout the match. "Roll me." "Last one" following the chain of german suplexes. Didn't help their cause.


Imagine a six man tag with 2009 Angle and the American Wolves on the same team. :lmao

That's a shame though, definitely would always expect more out of two guys that wrestled at such a high level.

No Mercy 2008
Mark Henry vs Matt Hardy - ***1/2
Candice vs Beth Phoenix - *1/4
Rey Mysterio vs Kane - ***1/4
Batista vs JBL - DUD
Big Show vs Undertaker - ***3/4
Jeff Hardy vs Triple H - ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho - ****1/2

God I love that PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

I'd like to never do so.

No Mercy '08, hell YES. Fantastic stuff all around. I actually don't mind Batista squashing JBL. b/c I did not want to see them wrestle, so five minutes > anything longer. I was left with a smile. Undertaker vs Big Show is :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Benoit/RVD from SummerSlam 02 is like one of the most slept on great matches ever. It's one of RVD's better wrestling matches of his career and Benoit was just a machine in the entire match. The suplexes and arm work are sooo awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit legit tears up every part of Van Dam during the match. It's so good. RVD finding his way to nudge out the tough win was done superbly. Countering Benoit on the top rope into dumping all of RVD's body weight onto him to knock him down long enough for the Five Star. Love it. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Unpopular opinion that I recently discovered. I like Jim Cornette.


If that is an unpopular opinion, then count me in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never have seen it before until right now: Brock Lesnar vs Rob Van Dam from Vengeance 2002 is quite the little match. Post-match shenanigans kind of rocked too. Love seeing Brock on the rise here. Dude was honest to goodness awesome damn near from the start. I'm convinced he's an escaped government super-being that WWE found and subsequently hired. RVD in his prime too :mark:

****1/2*

Ooooh. If this full video of Vengeance 2002 on youtube is legit I'm going to finally see a few of these matches for the first time atm. Always wanted to hear the reaction when The Un-Americans defeated Hogan & Edge. Bet it is riddled with heat.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Chrisitan-Jericho had a solid ladder match at Unforgiven 2004, which rarely gets talked about. Nothing along the lines of Jeff-Taker, Jericho-Benoit but still fun, nonetheless, ***1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doesn't get talked about people most don't seem to like it. 

It's ok, if you ask me. Rather dull in portions & didn't do much to separate it from the pack. Forgetting about it feels justified.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Henry/Orton from NOC is a ★★★¾ match for me too. Gotta rewatch their HIAC for the list and I'll also go through some of their TV stuff just in case.


Just watched their HIAC match and it was awesome. If you liked Sheamus/Show you'll enjoy this one. ****, IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Christian/Ambrose from this week's Main Event is 4 minutes of greatness. Jericho/Rhodes was good too.

I wonder what most think of Angle & Benoit vs Edge & Rey from NM '02. That right there was, imo, storytelling genius.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian vs Ambrose was nothing thanks to being cut short. Dean worked the leg, Christian attempted to get on offense and then it was over. Ambrose hasn't had a good singles match in weeks.

I knew I should have grabbed No Mercy 2002 from the other room before I left. Wanting to watch it now that I'm on the final match I need to check out for Vengeance '02. I recall liking the WWE Tag Team Championship finals. I see no reason why I shouldn't. Angle & Benoit are teaming, not working vs each other. And they're up against an arguable at his peak Edge & the ever outstanding Mysterio. Hope it holds up. If not, oh well. Show still has Jericho/Christian vs BookDust & Taker vs Brock on it.

------------

Henry vs Orton HIAC was good. I liked Henry's domination. Didn't think it was close to being great, though. *****


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Vengeance 2002? What'd you think of the triple threat ME, Obfuscation?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Vengeance 02? Now that's a PPV.

Also, No Mercy was imo 2008's 2nd best PPV behind WRASSLEMANIA 24 :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple Threat is kind of godly. Amazing match.

PPV as a whole is decent. Opener should rock, so hopefully that'll set the curve better for the event.

Great/Worth Seeing:
Undertaker vs Rock vs Angle
Brock vs RVD

Solid/Average/Fun:
Hogan & Edge vs Christian/Storm
Noble vs Kidman

Bad:
Booker vs Show
Jericho vs Cena
Hardy vs Regal

Look at all the talent in the bad pile. Stupid WWE giving 17 minutes to a lousy Triple H segment instead of to those matches. Ruined them.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Dark Church said:


> Unpopular opinion that I recently discovered. I like Jim Cornette.


I concur.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dudleys vs Eddie & Benoit may be the dumbest match I've ever seen. Oh lordy where was the thought process during half of this match?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Dudleys vs Eddie & Benoit may be *the dumbest match I've ever seen.* Oh lordy where was the thought process during half of this match?


Davey and Eddie Edwards disagree. But it's still meh.

Your 5-star matches, folks?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Touche, on that point sir. 

Although now I have Best in the World & Final Battle 2011 flashbacks running around my mind. Not good.

Five star match? Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle - SummerSlam 2001. Boosh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mine:

Bret/Bulldog
Bret/Owen WM
Bret/Austin SS
Bret/Austin WM
Taker/HBK HIAC
HHH/Foley RR
HHH/Austin 3SoH
Rock/Austin II
Austin/Angle SSlam
HHH/HBK/Benoit
Taker/HBK (Both) WM
Cena/Punk
Taker/HHH HIAC (Personal guilty pleasure)
Cena/Lesnar


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Five Star Listings?

Shawn-Taker HIAC & WM26
Austin-Bret WM13
Jumbo-Misawa
Cena-Shawn RAW 2007
Eddie-Lesnar NWO
Flair-Steamboat Chi Town (Most of their other matches too)
Punk-Cena MITB
Foley-Sting Beach Blast 1992

I do have a lot more.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> Christian vs Ambrose was nothing thanks to being cut short. Dean worked the leg, Christian attempted to get on offense and then it was over. Ambrose hasn't had a good singles match in weeks.


Ah, think I'll still watch it just because it's Christian vs Ambrose. (Y) 

I'm thinking this is a start to a US Title feud between the two, and given enough time on a PPV card I think these two could have a really decent match together.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Christian/Ambrose at SS sounds great


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Christian/Ambrose at SS sounds great


Yeah. 

Many people are thinking Ambrose is the favorite to win the World Title MITB match atm, and if Ambrose does win MITB, he'll need to lose his US Title, and losing the US Title to a respected veteran and former World Champion in Christian won't hurt him at all. Ambrose loses the title and goes on to better things, and Christian wins won of the only titles he's never won in the WWE, win win scenario for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Ah, think I'll still watch it just because it's Christian vs Ambrose. (Y)
> 
> I'm thinking this is a start to a US Title feud between the two, and given enough time on a PPV card I think these two could have a really decent match together.


As do I. Was sold on a match of their's making it to MITB, but forgot Christian is already IN the WWE Championship ladder match so it'll have to be postponed till SummerSlam. If we're lucky.

With some time behind on it I'm more than confident it'll be good. Ambrose is a good wrestler, it's shown in FCW and against the right people on WWE programming. Christian is going to fit right in with great company the likes of Undertaker & Danielson in aiding Dean to having a good match or even maybe the best match possible with what is given for the two on a PPV.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> Many people are thinking Ambrose is the favorite to win the World Title MITB match atm


Are we talking favourite from a kayfabe standpoint or non-kayfabe?

I would seriously mark out if Ambrose won the MITB briefcase and was given the opportunity to swim with the sharks, to reference CM Punk. But I automatically assumed, because The Shield are still a faction booked like they're not on the verge of imploding, that Ambrose was never really in the running for the briefcase. Personally I think it's Rhodes' year to shine, he's been on the main roster longer than any of the other participants, he's been directionless and completely misused for a while now, in my opinion he needs this more than anyone else competing to kick his career back into life.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

So I figured, I'd just drop this in here, because it's been reeking up my file library with such an impulsive stench. 23 scoodoo.



> *The Nasty Boys vs. Cactus Jack and Maxx Payne - Spring Stampede 1994 *
> 
> This match is the emphasis of fun, by reckless nature and a no rules environment. Cactus is the true MVP of the match, and again, by performing a dangerous stuntman-esqiue act. He basically fell flat on his back, from the distance of a walkway, right on unprotected cement. It looked really painful. Sagster also wind up a shovel and smacked it across Cactus' face, for good measure. The pinfall was as a result of this. The botched table segment seemed like the shortcoming of the match, as the fight was just rallying up, it was probably for the best though, don't keep a good thing going on for too long or else, it'll turn on you and transition from a fun, little tussle into a cesspool of piss sprinkled, puke. The ending itself, was also a little underwhelming, among the former issue, but still not enough to detract from the ever so violent goodness. When you think about it, this match was quite a standard of revolution for its time, as ECW wasn't a booming product and brawls didn't escalate into mindless spotfests. Even now, and when compared to WWE's current showing, it's a fresh pullback. ******​


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Vengeance 05 was a great PPV:

Carlito/Shelton- **1/2
Edge/Kane- ***1/4
Angle/HBK- ****1/2
Jericho/Christian/Cena- ***3/4
Batista/HHH- ****1/2


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Alex said:


> Are we talking favourite from a kayfabe standpoint or non-kayfabe?
> 
> I would seriously mark out if Ambrose won the MITB briefcase and was given the opportunity to swim with the sharks, to reference CM Punk. But I automatically assumed, because The Shield are still a faction booked like they're not on the verge of imploding, that Ambrose was never really in the running for the briefcase.


You could be right. I'm not too sure myself, but from what I've read on here Ambrose seems to be the favorite to win it. 

Just look at the poll in this thread for example: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/mitb/858849-spoilers-whc-contract-mitb-ladder-match-participants.html

60 people think Ambrose will win. With Cesaro and Barrett tied for second, but still far behind Ambrose with 34 votes. 

With how the The Shield have been pushed it wouldn't surprise me at all if Ambrose wins. The Shield are obviously not going to be a faction for ever, and I think they're particularly high on Ambrose with the way he got to wrestle Undertaker and such.


Alex said:


> Personally I think it's Rhodes' year to shine, he's been on the main roster longer than any of the other participants, he's been directionless and completely misused for a while now, in my opinion he needs this more than anyone else competing to kick his career back into life.


Well that's all well and good, but it doesn't mean it will happen. I would love for Damien Sandow to win but I don't think he has much chance to win. Sandow and Barrett have been directionless and completely misused for a while too, it's not just Cody, and I'd rather have those two win over Rhodes.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> You could be right. I'm not too sure myself, but from what I've read on here Ambrose seems to be the favorite to win it.
> 
> Just look at the poll in this thread for example: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/mitb/858849-spoilers-whc-contract-mitb-ladder-match-participants.html
> 
> ...


I see the merit to the collective idea that Ambrose is the favourite to win it. The Shield have been pushed incredibly well and from a kayfabe standpoint Ambrose probably is one of the favourites in that sense to win the briefcase, but I just don't see it right now. If Ambrose was to win it they could carry on with the "stable of champions" angle, only taking it to that higher level, which would be really exciting to see and just show how much faith the company has in these relativity new guys. This could subsequently create a rift in the group, with Ambrose's egotistical side coming forth leading to an implosion angle later down the line. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent considering all the fantastic possibilities that will probably never happen. Bottom line, I think he's in the match primarily as enhancement talent and not as a serious contender this time around.



Nostalgia said:


> Well that's all well and good, but it doesn't mean it will happen. I would love for Damien Sandow to win but I don't think he has much chance to win. Sandow and Barrett have been directionless and completely misused for a while too, it's not just Cody, and I'd rather have those two win over Rhodes.


Personally, I'd probably prefer Sandow to win it over Rhodes, but Sandow has only been on the main roster little over a year and I don't think he's completely ready for that main event spot yet. As for Barrett I can barely comprehend how far he's fallen, pushed as the top heel in 2010 where he looked like a sure fire main-eventer for years to come and now he's barely featured. I've just looked up Rhodes' age and he's only 27! I thought he was older considering how long he's been around, maybe he doesn't need it as much as I thought then.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ATF said:


> Your 5-star matches, folks?





Spoiler: lots of matches



*ROH:*
Joe vs Kobashi
Bryan vs KENTA - GBH V Night 2
Punk vs Joe - Punk/Joe II & All Star Extravaganza II
Do Fixer vs Blood Generation - SuperCard of Honor
Morishima vs Bryan - Manahattan Mayhem II
Bryan vs London - Epic Encounter
Bryan vs Nigel - 6th Anniversary Show
Nigel vs Aries - Rising Above 2007
Briscoes vs Steenerico - Ladder match - Man Up
BJ Whitmer vs Jimmy Jacobs - Cage match - SuperCard of Honor II

*PWG:*
Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros - Death to all but Metal
Young Bucks vs Super Smash Bros vs Future Shock - Ladder match - Threemendous III
Steen vs Generico - Ladder match - Steen Wolf
Elgin/Cage/Steen vs Ricochet/Swann/Fox - ASW 9 Night 2

*Dragon Gate USA:*
Richards vs Shingo

*WWE:*
Bret vs Austin - WM 13
Edge/Rey vs Angle/Benoit - No Mercy 2002
Punk vs Cena - MitB
Angle vs Austin - SummerSlam '01
HBK vs Undertaker - WM 25
TLC II & III
HBK vs Benoit vs HHH - WM 20
Austin/HHH vs Benoit/Jericho - 5/21/01

*NWA/WCW*
Flair vs Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble & Clash & Wrestle War
Flair vs Funk - Great American Bash & Clash
Psychosis vs Rey - Bash at the Beach '96
Eddie vs Rey - Halloween Havoc '97

*TNA*
Joe vs Styles vs Daniels - Unbreakable 2005

*AJPW:*
Jumbo vs Tenryu - 6/5/89
Jumbo vs Misawa - 6/8/90
Jumbo/Taue vs Misawa/Kawada - 12/7/90
Kawada vs Misawa - 6/3/94
Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi - 12/3/93 & & 5/21/94 & 6/9/95 (GOAT match and not close)
Kawada vs Hansen - 2/28/93
Jumbo/Taue/Fuchi vs Kawada/Kobashi/Misawa - 4/20/91
Misawa vs Kobashi - 1/20/97 & 10/31/98
Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Can-Ams - 5/25/92
Hansen vs Kobashi - 7/29/93
Taue vs Misawa - 4/15/95
Sasaki vs Kawada - 10/9/00
Kawada vs Tenryu - 10/28/00

*NOAH*
Misawa vs Kobashi - 3/1/03
Kobashi vs Sasaki - 7/18/05

*NJPW:*
Okada vs Naito - 3/4/12
Okada vs Tanahashi - 6/16/12
Okada vs Tanahashi - 4/7/13
MiSu vs Tanahashi - 10/8/12
Goto vs Tanahashi - 11/11/07 & 6/18/11
Iizuka/Nagata vs Kawada/Fuchi - 12/14/00
Shinjiro Ohtani vs Ultimo Dragon - 8/4/96
El Samurai vs Kanemoto - 6/5/97
Jushin Liger vs Shinjiro Ohtani - 2/9/97
Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke - 7/8/94



All that and still having watched Nigel/Bryan from Unified, Driven, Rising Above all multiple time I just haven't rated those as well as some 90's AJPW I still haven't got to.

Also: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/564475-your-5-star-match-lists.html


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Chrisitan-Jericho had a solid ladder match at Unforgiven 2004, which rarely gets talked about. Nothing along the lines of Jeff-Taker, Jericho-Benoit but still fun, nonetheless, ***1/4.


Haven't watched that match in a while. The only thing I remember about that match is Jericho's tail bone hitting the ladder with some pretty dull stuff following it. I'll give it another watch though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Your 5-star matches, folks?


Taker/HBK WM25
Austin/Bret WM13


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Five star matches:

HBK/Taker - Badd Blood '97
Bret/Austin - WM 13
Benoit/HBK/HHH - WM 20
HBK/Taker - WM 26
Austin/Angle - SS '01
Punk/Cena - MITB '11
Cena/Umaga - RR '07
Eddie/Lesnar - NWO '04
Angle/Taker - NWO '06
Cena/HBK - Raw '07

Cena/HBK is new to the list but after my last watch of it, I'm putting it in there because I realized just how great it is.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

ATF said:


> Your 5-star matches, folks?


WWE
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Hell in a Cell Match from Badd Blood 1997
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 25
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania 26
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Survivor Series 1996
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - Submission Match from Wrestlemania 13
Edge & Christian vs Hardy Boyz vs Dudley Boyz - TLC Match from Summerslam 2000
Triple H vs Cactus Jack - Street Fight from Royal Rumble 2000
The Rock vs Triple H - Iron Man Match from Judgment Day 2000
Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker - No Way Out 2006
CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the Bank 2011
John Cena vs Umaga - Last Man Standing Match from Royal Rumble 2007
Chris Benoit vs Triple H vs Shawn Michaels - Wrestlemania XX
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X

WCW/NWA
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi-Town Rumble
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - Two out of Three Falls Match from Clash of the Champions VI
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 1989
Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat and Nikita Koloff vs Steve Austin, Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton and Larry Zbyszko - Wargames from Wrestle War 1992
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 1997
Ric Flair vs Barry Windham - Worldwide 1/20/87
Ric Flair vs Barry Windham - Battle of the Belts II

Memphis
Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee - Loser Leaves Town Match from Memphis 6/6/83

Mid-South Wrestling
Ted DiBiase vs Jim Duggan - No DQ, Loser Leaves Town, Coal Miner's Glove on a Poll, Tuxedo, Steel Cage match from Mid-south Wrestling 3/22/85

All Japan Pro Wrestling
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 6/03/94
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada and Akira Taue - AJPW 6/09/95
Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada - AJPW 1/19/95
Kenta Konashi vs Mitsuharu Misawa - AJPW 10/21/97

ROH
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH Unified
Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH Driven 2007
Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong - ROH Vendetta 2005
CM Punk vs Samoa Joe - Joe vs Punk II
Jimmy Jacobs vs BJ Whitmer - Steel Cage Match from ROH Supercard of Honor II

New Japan Pro Wrestling
Team NJPW vs Team UWF - 5-on-5 Gauntlet Match - NJPW 4/19/84
Wild Pegasus(Chris Benoit) vs The Great Sasuke - Super J Cup 1994

TNA
Samoa Joe vs AJ Styles - Turning Point 2005


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

dem fives ? lets see

ALL major hbk/taker 
bret/stone wm 13 *
cena/lesnar
punk/cena mitb
hhh/taker HIAC *
angle/benoit rr 03 *

need to rewatch the * ones, I had savage/steamboat wm3 at 5* for the longest time

OH yea hbk/hhh xmas 97 how could I forget that, all time classic


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok, I'll bite:

HBK/Taker - BB '97
HBK/Taker - WM25
HHH/Cactus - RR '00
HHH/Benoit/HBK - WM20
Cena/Punk - MITB '11
Bret/Austin - WM13
Rock/Austin - WM17
HHH/Jericho - FL '00

Also a few that I have had at 5 but haven't seen in a long while so may change upon re-watches:

Austin/Angle - SS '01
Angle/Taker - NWO '06


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

★★★★★:

Austin vs Bret - WM13
Austin vs Rock - WM17
Benoit vs Angle - RR 03
Benoit vs HHH vs HBK - WM20
Undertaker vs Angle - NWO 06
Taker vs HBK - WM25

Watching No Way Out 07 right now. Fuck, this midgets battle was so lame and only good part was the commentary. Also always lol @ "Little Bastard". But speaking of commentary, it's going to be annoying to put up with Michael Cole for the rest of the show since his voice starts cracking from the second match onwards. Was it really hard for him to get a drink of water during backstage interviews or something like that?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Missed a fair chunk of WWE and wrestling in general so working my way around some of the more touted matches of the last month and a bit. For the life of me I don't have the energy to dive into Lesnar/HHH III for the foreseeable future because 2013 HHH is about as a welcome sight as a clown running across a minefield. With that being said...

*Daniel Bryan & Kane vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns, RAW (5/27/13)*

Great match. Bryan was just terrific in control and later as the FIP and Rollins had arguably his best outing yet. Bryan's initial hot tag flurry was just impeccably timed and executed and caught the crowd in a frenzy and he just looked so far ahead of everyone in the company in the process that it wasn't even funny. Loved Rollins being a dick and trying to put Bryan in the surfboard only to have Bryan power out and transition perfectly into strikes with Rollins frantically trying to escape. Rollins bumped brilliantly for everything here and they timed the cut off spots very well in Bryan's heat segment, big fan in particular of the sequence which ended with Bryan being reverse STO'd into the turnbuckle. Reigns was a bit more subdued here than in other outings but he still has that brilliant explosive energy and nearly murdered Bryan with a running shoulderblock. Structure was really strong with a great shine period for Bryan, a brief workover of Kane timed nicely into Bryan's extended showcase before the FIP spell and Kane's late hot tag. Finish with Kane & Bryan bickering was a tad unwelcomed given the action that preceded it but the running knee turned into a midair spinebuster on the floor was a great spot. Shame the camera angle exposed Kane waiting around for Rollins to hit the knee but that's a minor quibble in what is likely the best traditional tag match WWE has produced this year to date.

*Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton vs The Shield, RAW (6/3/13)*

Thought for the majority this was a fair bit below the tag match from the week before, but the final few minutes were really great and further proof of Bryan's ability at the minute. There was nothing I'd point to as being necessarily bad for the bulk of the match, moreso just very little that elevated the match beyond 'solid'. Orton as FIP wasn't terribly gripping though I thought Ambrose was quite good taunting and mimicking Orton's mannerisms, even if the actual control segment was fairly basic and didn't deviate from a set pattern of basic holds and stomps. Transition spot with Rollins catching Orton with a surprise kick to stop another draping DDT was very good though and everything after the hot tag with Bryan elevated the match with The Shield bumping greatly for Bryan's explosive offence sans Ambrose awkwardly having to adjust his body to setup the hurricanrana > senton spot between Bryan and Rollins. Finish was a smart way to seque into Bryan's obsession and to give The Shield another rub after being ran off by Bryan on the prior Smackdown as well as give a logical reason for Bryan to pull double duty the same night. 

*Daniel Bryan vs Ryback, RAW (6/3/13)*

Better than the tag match and a great match. I haven't seen their first encounter but I'd be surprised if it was better than this effort. David vs Goliath is a formula that struggles to disappoint and this was evident again with this match. Loved Bryan's determined and resilient approach, alternating between strikes and submissions to control and contain Ryback whilst spending the bulk of the match pinballing for Ryback and his offence. Loved how they worked continuous shifts in tempo and control in an organic way whilst still allowing both men to look good in their respective roles. Absolutely loved the Thesz press counter into the single leg crab followed by the brilliant Indian Deathlock > Forearm smash spot by Bryan. He worked as stiff as I've seen him work in WWE here throwing a ton of vicious kicks on top of the submissions and it allowed him to believeably work on top of Ryback for periods of time whilst still maintaining the size dynamic. Ryback to his credit bumped well for everything Bryan threw his way, especially loved the entire dropkick comeback sequence with Ryback struggling to keep his balance as Bryan overwhelmed him and the great Powerbomb counter to quieten the crowd after Bryan's rampant kick sequence. Lebell Lock counter was the perfect nearfall tease Bryan needed to look defiant and valiant and the callback spot to his NXT debut vs Jericho was a smart way to end the match and again make Bryan look like the most tenacious and resilient fighter in the company.

*Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns, Smackdown (6/7/13)*

Much like the 6/3 6 man tag I thought the bulk of this was solid albeit unspectacular, but once again had a frenzied finishing stretch which really elevated the match into an upper echelon. To the match's credit I'd say the beginning and middle of this was better than the 6/3 Raw 6 man, as Bryan looked vicious and dynamite in the opening exchange with Rollins and utilising his varied submission game and the middle saw Reigns and Rollins working well together (why in god's name Reigns' incredible leaping punch was contained solely to the WWE App is beyond me) to contain Orton. Orton bumped well for both of Rollins & Reigns' best offence and worked well in his brief hope spots but the match really revolved around another brilliant Bryan hot tag. The dual dropkick and kick frenzy, the sudden transition into the release German on Rollins followed by the dual suicide dive and diving headbutt was just an incredible continuous sequence and I loved the finishing stretch as I'm a sucker for dirty finishes in long building feuds such as Bryan vs The Shield. Bryan accidentally nailing Orton, only to scupper Rollins' hopes of stealing a flash pin and trapping him in the middle of the ring only for Ambrose to deny him his long sought victory was a great moment. Post match RKO was another nice tease in the direction of the feud and the fact it came after Bryan again took out The Shield was rather brilliant.

*Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins, RAW (6/10/13)*

This felt like a teaser and exhibition of both men's chemistry compared to their matches in the past as for the most part there was very little in between the array of impressive moves and counters from both men. However as far as predominantly exhibition matches go this was very good and shows both men have a great understanding of each other which could transition into a great match if they crafted a logical structure and story in future matches. Bryan's midair enziguri counter into the single leg crab was brilliant and I loved Rollins trying to avenge Bryan's early surfboard attempt with his own version, leading into Bryan once again countering and torquing Rollins' body in disgusting fashion in return. Bryan's dropkicks again looked nasty in this, they covered the Chaos Theory flub perfectly with Bryan transitioning immediately into the Roundhouse Kick (I suspected he was aiming for a release German rather than a bridge pin anyway, but there was a minor flub) and the other big spots (Bucklebomb & superplex countered into a crossody) all got the desired reaction. Liked Bryan mixing up the suicide dive due to Reigns on the outside and Rollins' cut off of Bryan's second dive attempt looked vicious. Definitely more of a tease of what both can do but for the type of match they worked I doubt they could have bettered it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I have such a tough time giving matches the full five, and I think the only one I've actually mentioned on here getting the full five was HBK/Taker HIAC. I gave the WM XX triple threat ****3/4, and I'll need to check the HBK/Taker matches from WM 25/26. Honestly have never seen Bret/Austin. Just one of those that I never caught up with. 

I'll need to check Austin/Trips from NWO 2001 for my Game project, and I suspect that will be up there. 

Fixing to finish off my Ladder Match DVD (first set).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton vs The Shield, Smackdown (6/14/13)*

I thought the bulk of this tbh was perhaps the weakest installment of the series to date. Kane was in the match a bit and as much as the guy seems a class act he's noticeably off the pace and really feels like he's unable to contribute greatly to matches anymore. Bryan was largely confined to the hot tag flurry apart from an early workover which never really went out of first gear and Orton didn't really set the world on fire either. Everything just seemed to be reserved compared to prior outings, however the finishing stretch was one of the finer ones produced from this feud with a molten crowd coming unglued for every Bryan attack and numerous run ins and bodies crashing at a breakneck pace. Loved the callback spot to prior Shield matches with Reigns attempting the spear through the barricade only to crash and burn for the first time with Ambrose soon joining him and the realisation that Rollins was now alone and the numbers game had finally been usurped with The Shield now on the defensive. Final exchange with Rollins catching a midair RKO and the crowd screaming as Bryan applied the Lebell Lock was a great moment and proof that a well booked angle over multiple months will produce moments like this when it has a payoff. Its a shame the beginning and middle was amongst the weaker effort in the series (guessing with the PPV only 5 days away they held back) because the finishing stretch was perfect and had the work before it been better it could have been one of the best matches in The Shield vs WWE series.

*Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns, Payback (6/16/13)*

Disappointing match which truthfully didn't go past average for me. Strange opening with Bryan pretty much starting the match with a brief FIP period as opposed to the standard babyface shine period which immediately upset the traditional structure and the match struggled to improve after that. The middle section and Orton heat segment was pretty tepid with familiar sequences stuck in repetition and everything just seemed to be a precursor to Bryan's hot tag as opposed to making the middle section the body of the match. The match kicked into another gear with Bryan's tag but it wasn't enough to really save the opening 2/3rds here aside from the butterfly suplex off the top rope which I can't recall Bryan ever utilising before. Thankfully this wasn't the match I'd heard rave reviews of when it came to Payback so I had fairly low expectations. 

*Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio, Payback (6/16/13)*

Well this was fucking awesome. Seriously, best PPV match of the year imo and by a fair bit to. Always said Ziggler was better suited to being a babyface as a worker and this match more than foreshadowed his talent. Obviously the nature of the concussion angle garnered natural sympathy that would have been hard to squander, but this was without doubt the best performance of his career. All the things I'd usually never expect to find in a Ziggler match (the intricacies and little touches) were in abundance here: things like Dolph holding his head whilst making a cover, grabbing the ref's ankles to give himself time to breathe, almost screaming in agony, grimacing facials at every opportunity etc. Moment of the match for me that typified this was him transitioning into the sleeper and just having this amazingly desperate and pained expression on his face as he held Del Rio, almost willing the match to be over instantly. There was also this really amazing little moment where he landed a punch flurry and it looked like he nearly fell on his arse whilst trying to run at Del Rio because he was that affected from the attack, just picture perfect babyface selling. Del Rio equally deserves tremendous credit. I felt they really wasted a promising babyface run by nullifying him and basically reducing him to Mr.Mexico and nothing more, but here he was the snivelling and opportunistic bastard that was impossible to root against. 

All the attacks at Ziggler's head were scummy and horrifying (that punt kick on the apron, christ on a bendy bus!) and I loved him blatantly using vicious headbutts to the back of the head and the beautiful spot where he did kidney punches before throwing a snide unprotected shot to the back of the head before the backcracker. The spot on the floor with Langston where he goaded Langston into a shoving war and then exaggerated the contant to get Langston kicked out with the glorious shit eating grin on his face was just majestic, as was the dropkick through the ropes just as Ziggler was being attended to on the floor. Thought they timed Ziggler's brief comebacks perfectly to make him look resilient without taking away Del Rio's dominance and Ziggler's plight & the finish was really great with Ziggler pulling this determined and sympathetic face only to be blasted with one kick too many. Brilliant double turn, majestic heel work by Del Rio masquerading as a face, Ziggler bumping and selling his arse off throughout the match, numerous nuances and subtle touches by both men to put over the work and the desired crowd reaction. Amazing match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Good shit. I'm going to catch up on what I missed when the 2000s list is finished. I've seen like, only two Shield matches on TV, I think. Also still never watched Cena v. Punk, Del Rio v. Show LMS, Taker v. Ambrose, ANYTHING from WwrestleMania, etc. 

What's the best WWE match you've watched this year (I know you're catching up, but so far)? You seen the Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event?

I'd honestly say Kane never contributed much to matches through his entire career. He's sort of remained consistent on the basis that he's really not AWFUL awful, and can be carried pretty easily in situations, but own on his own I don't think he's really ever been capable of much. I'd kind of think this isn't an unpopular opinion but then I see people saying Kane is top 20 all time and shit and my mind is boggled.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Still not my supreme unpopular opinion that will get my testicles cut off, but that opinion shall be revealed at the proper time.


You're killing me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Good shit. I'm going to catch up on what I missed when the 2000s list is finished. I've seen like, only two Shield matches on TV, I think. Also still never watched Cena v. Punk, Del Rio v. Show LMS, Taker v. Ambrose, ANYTHING from WwrestleMania, etc.
> 
> What's the best WWE match you've watched this year (I know you're catching up, but so far)? You seen the Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event?
> 
> I'd honestly say Kane never contributed much to matches through his entire career. He's sort of remained consistent on the basis that he's really not AWFUL awful, and can be carried pretty easily in situations, but own on his own I don't think he's really ever been capable of much. I'd kind of think this isn't an unpopular opinion but then I see people saying Kane is top 20 all time and shit and my mind is boggled.


I'd say Regal/Ohno NXT or Ziggler/Del Rio. Both character driven matches with a terrific focus on the nuances and intricacies of wrestling which I love. The sort of matches that most will enjoy but couldn't put over Punk/Taker, even if I think the respective performances by each are better than what Punk & Taker delivered. I mean I really dug Punk/Taker live and can appreciate why people will forever rank it ahead of a 12 minute NXT match featuring finger manipulation and expressive Regal selling, but matches like Ziggler/Del Rio & Regal/Ohno will win everytime for me.

Erm, Show/Del Rio LMS is likely my Raw/Smackdown MOTY so far. Just ever so slightly prefer it to Bryan/Kane vs Reigns/Rollins 5/27 (which alongside Bryan/Ryback 6/3 was the best of the Bryan stuff I caught up with). Not seen Cesaro/Sheamus from ME or Smackdown yet and haven't seen Cesaro/Kofi or Cesaro/Zayne II. Will change that soon. Haven't watched Cena/Punk 2/25 either for some strange reason.

Taker/Ambrose is a fun spectacle and surreal visual but not much in the way of a match. A fine segment to basically signify the trust imposed in The Shield and the post match shenanigans are really amazing to see, but its a basic sub 10 minute match which is more predicated on DEAN AMBROSE facing Undertaker, as opposed to crafting a really nifty match.

Yeah I wasn't trying to sort of argue Kane was ever not the way he's been, just feels now as he's gotten older he really is as limited as ever in what he can do. Its where personally as much as I enjoy the Bryan vs Shield matches there just feels a way to improve the matches. Kane & Orton do little for me off the hot tag or as the FIP (though tbf Orton is better off the hot tag given his popularity) but Bryan is too good atm as the hot tag to be the FIP. But at the same time I watch Orton or Kane be the FIP and I just think 'this would be 5x better if Bryan was bumping like a madman for everything'. I dunno, Bryan & Bourne for example would be fucking brilliant. Just feels like Bryan is better than anyone atm as FIP or as the Hot tag and it means there's always a way to improve the structure of the match. They're fun though especially the finishing stretches.

Not sure if you'd dig Bryan/Rollins 6/10. Its pretty much an exhibition match (not much in between an array of very impressive counters and offence from both) and feels like what you'd get from Bryan/Ziggler if you had them wrestle a 10 minute+ match. Tbf as far as 'exhibition' matches go it was nifty and shows they've got great chemistry and could probably put together a great match with structure and a clearer story, but I'd say watch it for a few choice Bryan counters if nothing else.


----------



## horrorfan_1984 (Aug 13, 2011)

Five star matches:

Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat 2/3 falls 4/2/89
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat 3/18/89 Landover
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada 6/3/94
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Kenta Kobashi 1/20/97
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Akira Taue 4/15/95 CHAMPIONS CARNIVAL FINAL
Mitsuharu Misawa vs Steve Williams 7/28/94
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 6/9/95
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 12/3/93
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 12/6/96
Bryan Danielson vs KENTA 9/16/06
Steve Austin vs Bret Hart 3/23/97
Dangerous Alliance vs Sting's Squadron Wargames 1992
El Hijo del Santo vs ***** Casas 7/18/87
El Hijo del Santo vs ***** Casas 9/19/97
El Hijo del Santo vs Blue Panther 4/9/00
El Hijo del Santo vs Espanto Jr 5/14/92
El Hijo del Santo vs ***** Casas vs El Dandy 12/6/96
Blue Panther vs Atlantis 8/9/91
Blue Panther vs Atlantis 12/5/97
***** Casas vs El Dandy 7/5/92
Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood vs Sgt. Slaughter & Don Kernodle 3/12/83
Eddy Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio 6/23/05
Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee 6/6/83
Jerry Lawler vs Bill Dundee 12/30/85
Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura 1/22/97
Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Super Tiger 12/5/84
Devil Masumi vs. Chigusa Nagayo 8/22/85


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*No Way Out 2007:*

Chris Benoit, Jeff & Matt Hardy vs MNM & MVP - ★★★¼ (Solid tag action and work from both sides)

Cruiserweight Open - ★★½ (Vintage fast paced cruiserweight action with some of them being eliminated very fast, Funaki and Daivari specially. Helms finally loses the title and Chavo comes out as the final surprise entrant to win it.)

Finlay & Hornswoggle vs Boogeyman & Little Boogeyman - ½★ (Other than the commentary, this was awful. The last thing I wanna see is a fat midget impersonating a terrible gimmick. Finlay and "Little Bastard" are the only redeeming qualities other than some funny commentary.)

Kane vs Booker T - ★ (Boring is the only way to define this.)

Paul London & Brian Kendrick vs Deuce n Domino - ★★¼ (Wasn't really into it but for what it's worth, it was alright.)

Bobby Lashley vs Mr. Kennedy - ★ (What I said about the only other singles match in this card applies here too. Kennedy is starting to get _really_ annoying because he cuts his boring promos on every event he appears in and for some insane reason, he spends most of the time on the offense even though he's smaller and doesn't really have an interesting arsenal. It worked against Batista but here, I just wanted it to end. A dead crowd might have not helped matters to be exact.)

John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs Batista & Undertaker - ★★★★ (Finally a great match to cap off a pretty weak show. Everyone gets a piece of the action against both of their opponents and we see the prelude to some great feuds in the then-future such as HBK/Taker and Cena/Batista. Hopefully, the Cena/Taker stuff here is just a small taste of something greater that we should get next year or at least some point before Taker retires. These two have great chemistry and it's a crime if they never face off at Wrestlemania. Also great ending with Batista getting back at Taker for the chokeslam on Raw and building tension for their WM feud which leads to Cena and HBK capitalizing to win the match.)

*Overall:* ★★ out of ★★★★★ (For the most part, this is a terrible show saved by a decent tag match in the opening and an excellent main event.)


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

I remember being so hype from the Batista/ Taker build. The ending to NWO was expected yet very cool.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved those early '07 tag matches. HBK/Cena vs Batista/Taker I & II plus Cena/HBK/Batista/Taker vs Orton/Edge/Kennedy/MVP. Did they ever do HBK/Cena vs Orton/Edge? If so, any good?


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Indeed they did but couldn't tell you how it was as I do not remember how the match went. Scary to think 2007 was freaking 6 years ago.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just got home from cousin graduation of over 700 ppl and graduation dinner, tired cannot explain what im feeling right now

good stuff woolcock, love the avi too Jerry :lol, yea I have ziggler/del rio as MOTY and not because im a ziggler mark its that good. Punk/taker didnt resonate as well as it was live on the rewatch, still good match though. Yea that del rio/show LMS is outstanding, you need to check out the cesaro/sheamus series ASAP

@funnyfaces, just tell us bro, we all have named some juicy unpopular opinion, Ill restate ones I think HHH is overrated and screams OK at best, was never the driving force in an good matches of his


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

They did Rated RKO vs. Cena & HBK for the Tag Titles on RAW but it wasn't anything special. It teased a lot of dissension between Orton & Edge and gave Cena/HBK the belts for no real reason. The match is on _The John Cena Experience._ Not sure if Rated RKO ever got a rematch...

-------------------------------

Finally watched ADR/Ziggler from Payback. Brilliant booking all around and great work from both guys. Really smartly worked double turn and the crowd ate it up big time. Ziggler sold all those nasty ass kicks and the concussion angle so well. I'll go *** 3/4 on it, not quite MOTYC level due to it being so one sided.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you killing me Corey :lol

Since we had a 5* discussion before I left I went back and watched bret/scsa wm 13 and it holds up beautifully , but its odd to me. I dont understand why I think that highly of it, im more of a WRASSLIN guy and its more of a brawl but something just keeps my attend the whole match


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I think HHH is overrated and screams OK at best, was never the driving force in an good matches of his


:deebo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H is pretty shit.

Good reads, SI. Glad you got around to checking most of the matches you missed out right now. Certain you'll be big on the Cesaro matches. He's consistently tremendous.


----------



## Marcos 25063 (Sep 9, 2012)

I just found it (did not know where to post)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Triple H is very hit or miss with me. He's put on some amazing matches but he's also put on some of my least favorite matches of all time. I think I like him most in multi-man matches like triple threats, fatal four way, elimination chamber, etc.

Off topic: If I see one more damn ant in my bathroom today...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, just finished watching Smackdown. Unlike the past few weeks, this did not have a standout match, but it was still loads of fun. Sheamus/Sandow was pretty good for an opening match. Diva's segment was not too bad and helped add to the feud. MizTV was cool thanks to Heyman and Heyman alone. In addition, the video package for the Punk/Heyman RAW segment was really good. Kane/Orton was very by the books, but Daniel Bryan was hilarious on commentary. Watch the segment for him. Shield/Uso's and Christian was the low point of the show, but it looks like they are treating it as a huge upset. 

Main event segment was my favorite segment on the show. TONS of fun. Del Rio did an alright job playing to the crowd (and he wore an awesome fitted suit). Ziggler looked terrific here as a badass face. LOL at him dancing and singing with the mariachi. This has to be the first time I ever remember Ziggler winning a beat down since early 2012. Great seeing the WWE put some faith in other guys.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just rewatched Ambrose/Kane from Payback, and even though the crowd wasn't into it, the ending was lame and whatnot, it still worked in terms of telling a very good story. I'd now give it **3/4 actually.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane and Ambrose appear to have very little chemistry in the singles ranks. Payback was their best match so far, although that isn't saying much. 

Checked out Eddie Guerrero vs Edge No DQ match today. It's quite good. Made a liberal use of the stip with ladders, pacing was solid, storytelling was decent _(it's no DQ and they hate each other, so lets kill 'em type whatever)_ & both men were willing to bump to put on a show. I don't agree with the opinion that it is a GREAT match; I'm on the side of saying it's right in the middle of their PPV matches as really good, slightly edging out SummerSlam & falling short of Unforgiven. Can't go wrong with any of the three. Eddie taking the back body drop into the ladder only to fall on his neck was insane.

****1/2*


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

EDDIE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kenny you should go watch SummerSlam 2002 right now.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

oh man i really should. i have it on VHS :lmao


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

VHS, AWESOME. I had a few classics on tape myself. Such as WrestleMania 17. No edits, no problem. :hb

Goodness that show is so great. It's even better for those who really dig Michaels vs Trips. Adds more depth to the show, even if I thought that was the only real particularly average affair on the show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam 02 is a spectacular show, but Survivor Series 02 is almost as good and barely gets talked about nowadays. Amazing show top to bottom.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love 'em both. :mark:

Survivor Series '02 might be the event I've watched the most in my lifetime as a matter of fact. A few there I could say this for, but boy oh boy. Have I watched that one a ton. Hot NYC crowd with a slew of really good - great matches in the mix; everything you want a WWE PPV to be. Not to mention Shawn Michaels' win is one of my favorite moments in wrestling. I'm not even a "mark", if you will, yet that reaction is grand. The stuff you live for.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

- MSG crowd
- Opening Tag is awesome fun
- Great CW match
- SALIVA LIVE :mark:
- Scott Steiner when he was cool
- Two of the GOAT Divas go hardcore
- Best 5 minute match ever (or one of)
- SD Six Triple Threat
- 1st ever Chamber :mark: :mark:

Yup, awesome.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The second half of 2002 was outstanding. Vengeance, Summerslam, Unforgiven, No Mercy and Survivor Series are all great events to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forget to add the guy behind Michael Cole mocking him while Cole is amazed at the results on the night.

I love that Steiner segment. Too bad they cut out "Gimme the fucking mic!" Not to mention Matt Hardy V1 was the greatest & I was a Nowinski fan. A sucker for a cheap heat heel, haha.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well then Del Rio should be one of your favorites, Cody. :jordan3


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Echo the love for Survivor Series 2002. Such an awesome PPV, every title changed hands too!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well there is a difference between cheap heat heels and heels who get no heat. :troll


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I loved those early '07 tag matches. HBK/Cena vs Batista/Taker I & II plus Cena/HBK/Batista/Taker vs Orton/Edge/Kennedy/MVP. Did they ever do HBK/Cena vs Orton/Edge? If so, any good?


Don't forget Rated RKO vs DX from NYR. Rated RKO vs Cena & HBK happened twice. One was the night after Royal Rumble and the other was a week after No Way Out. The former is solid and I'm yet to watch the latter. A tag match that goes unnoticed from that time period is the final Smackdown before NWO when Batista & Undertaker face Rated RKO.






When big stars that I'm interested in team up, I always get much more enjoyment out of tag team wrestling compared to some actual lower card tag teams that I don't have any investment in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Look who's in it. You know it is WELL worth viewing. Great match. WWF really let these guys get time for it as opposed to being rushed like how some Cruiserweight matches fell victim to. Love the domination by Tajiri and comeback portrayal by Kidman. Kidman's WWF/WWE tenure was actually really good. Doesn't seem to get talk about in the same breath as his work from WCW. That should change. Did I mention Tajiri is in this? Yeah, he's godly. Crowd bought into this so much. Things were cooking on all cylinders here. Finish is :mark: x100, btw.

****3/4*


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

2013 has been a great year for 6 man tag team matches, SHIELD have been running shit as far as that goes.

Watching SD, Sheamus/Sandow was some fun, Sandow got some good heat. MITB 2013 winner :cheer :$

I am so excited for LESNAR/PUNK. That has MOTY all over it, the story is stewing nice and slowly and i love it. I like that there hasn't been a huge turn and same old shit, this storyline is about to explode. That look on Punk's face when he hugged Heyman was storytelling gold. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not the only one who thinks Austin had a horrible 2002, right? b/c all I think that may have been on the good side was his matches vs Flair. Never seen the Big Show match, but I will soon.

Let us not forget about his horrid performance vs Undertaker at Backlash. The entire match felt like they were treating it as a joke. Austin appeared to be drunk during the entire match. Seriously. He looked like an idiot. It wasn't Austin. It was very odd. Taker wasn't much better in it either, tbf. Topic is Austin, however. I know it was only about six months he was there opposed to the full twelve, but yeah, he sucked as I am noticing.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Not surprising, that was around the time he felt he was being misused and whatnot. But yeah, especially coming off an awesome 2001 for him he was poor. Haven't watched the Backlash match with Taker in years, you know probably not since watching it live. They've never had great chemistry together though. Is that the one with Flair as special referee?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GIMME A FUCKIN' MIC.

Anyways, gonna try and plow through another pile of Henry matches for the day. His matches with Finlay & Hardy in 2008 were godly, and I just checked out a great match of Superstars against fucking PRIMO of all people. It's perplexing as to how astounding Henry really was at times between 2006 and 2011, let alone what happened when he was actually given something. Might go all 2010 today and check out FACE Henry and see what he can do here.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FACE HENRY

Is there any Jericho vs Austin match worth watching? I read Jericho's second book a month ago and he bashed every match they had together including Vengeance, No Way Out and King of the Ring. (obviously excluding the tag match with HHH and Benoit.)


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Austin did indeed have a crappy 2002. The match with Taker at Backlash was horrid. In fact he didn't have a good PPV match all year except the Rumble.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After coming off an AMAZING 2001 too...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Not surprising, that was around the time he felt he was being misused and whatnot. But yeah, especially coming off an awesome 2001 for him he was poor. Haven't watched the Backlash match with Taker in years, you know probably not since watching it live. They've never had great chemistry together though. Is that the one with Flair as special referee?


That's the one. Flair was dreadful in his role too. A total crap match all around. The opposite of enjoyment from loving this sport. I wouldn't advise you to try and remember the match with another viewing. It's best you go without it, if you ask me.

I have been wanting to watch every Undertaker vs Austin match out there and see which ones I like. Why are there those big star pairings that just flop? Undertaker is in a few: vs Austin, vs Triple H _(they've had like one good match)_, & even vs The Rock I'd say. Austin vs Triple H never had anything special if you ask me. Undertaker vs Hart split the difference b/c their '97 matches were horrible. It's interesting, to say the least.

I hate putting down some Undertaker matches, but facts are facts. On the flip side, his GREAT series include vs the likes of Mick Foley, Big Show, Shawn Michaels, & Kurt Angle. So everyone has their good and bad opponents. My are all the matches vs those guys wonderful.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Undertaker vs Hart split the difference b/c their '97 matches were horrible. but facts are facts.












Think you mean opinions there bud  Thought their ONO and SS were very good.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

INB4 good guy Cody comes in and tells us it's all about subjectivity 8*D.

Wanna know a pair of guys who have RIDICULOUS chemistry? Rock & Jericho. Jericho might actually be Rock's greatest opponent ever, dead fucking serious.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Show/Cena is one of those pairings to me that just didn't work. They are both good wrestlers but put them together and it's crap.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Show/Cena is one of those pairings to me that *WAS FUCKING REALLY GOOD AND UNDERRATED*. They are both good wrestlers but put them together and *IT'S EVEN BETTER*.


* My Thoughts.

Every single match they had was at least average in my eyes, with a few in 2009 jumping off the page to me in being GREAT. Cena is actually one of Big Show's better opponents IMO.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

For me their Judgment Day 09 and No Way Out 12 matches are two of the worst main event/co main event matches I have ever seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Think you mean opinions there bud  Thought their ONO and SS were very good.


*Facts for me. :hayley3

I can't take those matches though. ugh. Leg work that goes absolutely nowhere after the bulk of the match deals with it, dreadful pacing, boring template, the works. They're not the _worst_ matches I've ever seen, but they're pretty darn hard to sit through for my money. The kind of matches where it shows Bret's occasional lifeless work.

+1 on the digging Cena vs Big Show front. The pile of their matches that I don't like is very slim. Contrary to popular opinion I'd say they match up really well with one another. Big Show tends to do that with most, tbf.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Show/Cena is one of those pairings to me that just didn't work. They are both good wrestlers but put them together and it's crap.


Now Show/Lesnar and Show/Taker on the other hand.....

Grabbed the War Games DVD today :mark: Havn't seen any of the 80's ones so it'll be nice watching those.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does that set have every War Games match on it or only the bulk?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Does that set have every War Games match on it or only the bulk?


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wcw-war-games-wwe-dvd/39302/

Think there were more but not televised. Like in the 80's on some Bash tours maybe...


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

zep81 said:


> Now Show/Lesnar and Show/Taker on the other hand.....
> 
> Grabbed the War Games DVD today :mark: Havn't seen any of the 80's ones so it'll be nice watching those.



Show/Taker's series of matches in 08 were awesome. Strange to think they had a great match at No Mercy but thanks to HBK/Jericho and Hardy/Triple H it was the third best match of the night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep it appears that every match made the cut. Stellar. REALLY have to purchase that one now. Only one I have on DVD prior was the very first thanks to the Horsemen DVD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Yep it appears that every match made the cut. Stellar. REALLY have to purchase that one now. Only one I have on DVD prior was the very first thanks to the Horsemen DVD.


Editing wise, Ventura's commentary is not included in the 92/93 ones (that royalty shit), also there is no commentary still on the '88 one (apparantly, there wasnt any on the Horsemen DVD either), and commentary featuring Benoit on the '97 one is edited.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Obfuscation said:


> I'm not the only one who thinks Austin had a horrible 2002, right? b/c all I think that may have been on the good side was his matches vs Flair. Never seen the Big Show match, but I will soon.
> 
> Let us not forget about his horrid performance vs Undertaker at Backlash. The entire match felt like they were treating it as a joke. Austin appeared to be drunk during the entire match. Seriously. He looked like an idiot. It wasn't Austin. It was very odd. Taker wasn't much better in it either, tbf. Topic is Austin, however. I know it was only about six months he was there opposed to the full twelve, but yeah, he sucked as I am noticing.


Austin 2002 was awful aside from maybe a decentish Raw match against Flair and/or Big Show. He was quite poor in the latter half of 2001 as well. The two PPV matches against Angle were really good but that was probably due to Angle more than Austin. He has that 'drunk' look about him ib the Rebellion 2001 match with Rock. I think the guy was just in a lot of pain, coulda been popping pills... 

The Austin/Jericho matches to me always looked quite poor.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I read about the Ventura & Benoit edits. I can live with it. Benoit being added for the match is good enough & it's pretty solid too so it's good to see make the cut.

Thanks for the heads up all the same. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Yeah, I read about the Ventura & Benoit edits. I can live with it. Benoit being added for the match is good enough & it's pretty solid too so it's good to see make the cut.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up all the same. (Y)


NP, its great to have them all finally released, esp those 80's ones and i havn't read any more edits match wise apart from those i mentioned so its all good 

Blu-Ray has a couple of extra matches, from SMW and ECW i think, so not strictly War Games lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Radical. I think I have a solid assumption at what pick the ECW match _(or matches?)_ will be. Thinking the Team Raven vs Team Dreamer nutty War Games-esque type match they had sometime in '96.

A Smoky Mountain Wrestling match being added is :mark:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

When I first heard about the Wargames DVD a few weeks back I watched the 7/4/87 version of it. I just watched it off the DVD again and damn that match is so fine. I've never really assigned stars to these matches because they're such anomalies but that one is at least ****1/2+. Such a spectacle and what a great crowd. Sick sick match. Can't wait to watch the rest .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Think it's No Mercy 2002 time. Really excited to see the tag match right now. The smackdown one I mean. Forgot this could be a show with two tremendous tag bouts on it. I know I'm pretty big on the opener - rope snap and all. For some reason the only match that's a blur is the WWE Tag Team Championship finals. Rest is as vivid as vivid can be. Huh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Obfuscation said:


> Think it's No Mercy 2002 time. Really excited to see the tag match right now. The smackdown one I mean. Forgot this could be a show with two tremendous tag bouts on it. I know I'm pretty big on the opener - rope snap and all. For some reason the only match that's a blur is the WWE Tag Team Championship finals. Rest is as vivid as vivid can be. Huh.


Just tell me you like Brock/Taker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Matt Borne died - RIP to one of the GOAT heels.

In tribute to him, top 5 Doink matches?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Don't forget Rated RKO vs DX from NYR. Rated RKO vs Cena & HBK happened twice. One was the night after Royal Rumble and the other was a week after No Way Out. The former is solid and I'm yet to watch the latter. A tag match that goes unnoticed from that time period is the final Smackdown before NWO when Batista & Undertaker face Rated RKO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, didn't even know that existed but I'm gonna give it a watch. Looks awesome.

And I love DX/Rated RKO from NYR. I actually have that around ****1/4.

RIP Doink. 

Edit: WWE ranked Rock/Cena I as Cena's 42nd best match. I'm amazed.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> INB4 good guy Cody comes in and tells us it's all about subjectivity 8*D.
> 
> Wanna know a pair of guys who have RIDICULOUS chemistry? Rock & Jericho. Jericho might actually be Rock's greatest opponent ever, dead fucking serious.


One of those pairings that could get it done both in the ring and on the mic. Especially in 2001. No surprise Jericho rates his time with Rock highley. 










:lmao that segment still rules to this day.

Cena/Punk is another one of those pairings that just click both ways.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I rewatched Jericho v Rock from No Mercy 2001 and the Raw rematch. Both kick serious ass. Haven't gotten round to Vengeance or the Rumble match.

I'd say Doink's best matches are probably on the Raw 1993 Season DVD. Vs Jannetty two out three falls stands out as being good. I quite like the 'Mania IX match with Crush.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ATF said:


> Matt Borne died - RIP to one of the GOAT heels.
> 
> In tribute to him, top 5 Doink matches?


He wrestled Mr. Perfect three times in KotR qualifiers in 93. First two were draws or countouts or w/e but the third was an awesome contest.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> One of those pairings that could get it done both in the ring and on the mic. Especially in 2001. No surprise Jericho rates his time with Rock highley.
> 
> :lmao that segment still rules to this day.
> 
> Cena/Punk is another one of those pairings that just click both ways.






"The Rock was winning big ones when you were down there in WCW on Monday Nitro getting your monkey ass whipped by Juventud Guerrera!" :lmao

The Rock and Chris Jericho's chemistry with one another is simply unmatched tbh.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

That's irrelevant said:


> "The Rock was winning big ones when you were down there in WCW on Monday Nitro getting your monkey ass whipped by Juventud Guerrera!" :lmao
> 
> The Rock and Chris Jericho's chemistry with one another is simply unmatched tbh.


Indeed. Hell, I forgot about that segment though. That reminds me....






:lmao at Jericho's "I am cool, I am the Breeze!"


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

It only took me 4 days but here it is.



Spoiler: The Undertaker's 2009 year Part I



*Smackdown 01/09/2009 - The Undertaker vs. Shelton Benjamin *
Really good 12 minute TV match here, that really let me remember how good Shelton is/was in the ring when he needs to be. As for Taker he was pretty much winding down but still competing at a high level. This was maybe 2/3 week before the Rumble and I don’t think this had much of a backstory to it aside from both men are in the rumble. I loved the beginning of the match with Shelton doing the stick and move offense to keep taker way but gets caught which leads to Taker working on the arm soften him up for “OLD SCHOOL” and he does hit it, but he continues to work it which was pretty AWESOME! Cause I can’t remember the last time Taker actually stuck to working the arm after “Old School” Taker would then go to the bread and butter offense and attempt the big boot after the snake eyes but Shelton counters it with a chop block and begins to work on the left leg, to which Taker sold really well. The match really made Shelton look aggressive and smart with all his purpose was taking out the knee and the reason why I said smart was, I’ve seen it done quite a bit in today’s WWE is that a wrestler would start working on the leg then 1 minute later start targeting the head or an arm and just totally forget the leg. The world eventually breakdown in so a back-and-forth contest with both men trading moves but not high impact moves, anyway the match ends when Shelton does for a float over I think in the corner but Taker catches him and delivers a Tombstone for the win. ***1/2

*Smackdown 01/23/2009 - The Undertaker vs. Shelton Benjamin *
This is the go-home edition of Smackdown right before the Royal Rumble. This wasn’t as good as their first match together but I like that they played off moments that happen in the first like, Shelton trying to do the stick on move punches to start but Taker wasn’t having any of it and took it to him. I also liked that Shelton had a counter for Taker trying to work the arm so Taker just left it alone. Shelton was just as aggressive in this one but it was in a different way, in the first match he tried to work on the leg but in this it was like he realized the knee wasn’t gonna work so he just wanted to out punch and just try to beat him up instead, In fact. I don’t think Shelton targeted the knees at all. This was also a lot slower than the first and a lot more back-and-forth too with was nice seeing Shelton get this much offense in. The moment of the match was defiantly Taker going for the chokeslam but Shelton counters to land on his feet then hit this AWESOME! Impeller DDT but that only gets a 2 count. The match would end when Shelton gets in the mount position but he lets up for a second and Taker applies the “Hell's Gate” But JR calls it the “Devils Gate” Oh I should also add JR and Taz on commentary are pretty underrated. ***

*Royal Rumble 2009 – Rumble Match*
The pack I downloaded has the match when Taker comes in at number 16, and I’m too lazy to download the whole show so I’m just gonna watch this one. The guys in the ring so far are Orton, Triple H, Jericho, Mysterio, Knoxs, Finley, Cody, Ted and JT “FUCKIN’” G Anyway Taker is in a #16 and he immediately throws JTG out :lmao As you know I really don’t like reviewing rumble match as far too much shit happens at once or nothing happens so I’m just gonna mention the stuff I liked. Like Jericho/Punk interaction, Punk/Regal interactions and Taker also got busted open the hard way I think it was a Finley punch or Punk Kick. But the real moment of the match was KANE coming in at #23 and the BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION! Reform and kill everyone. OH SHIT! I totally forgot RVD’s surprise entrance in this match too, the reaction was fuckin’ great and I LEGIT laughed when it took JR like 3 seconds to realize RVD was back, anyway RVD gets his usual stiff kicks and normal spots in and boy it looks sloppy. The Brian Kendrick #26 he eliminates Kofi then Triple H throws him out like seconds after so I think he was in for a total of 20 seconds :lmao #27 is Dolph and he has quite possible the worse generic song ever, anyway he starts beating on guys and as he’s doing the “Hi! I’m Dolph Ziggler” gimmick he tries to shake KANE’s hand be KANE just throws him out :lmao and I think he’s total was 20 seconds too. BUT SHIT GETS EVEN MORE HILARIOUS WHEN SANTINO COMES IN AT #28 AND BREAKS WARLORD'S RECORD! Not much happens for a while until Show comes out at #30 and he and Taker start interacting with one another. Actually forget what I said before the moment of the match so far was the 30 seconds that Jericho/Taker had together it started with Jericho eliminating RVD and he has a huge smile on his face until he realizes Taker is standing right behind him. He tries to eliminate him but Taker counters him with a whip into the rope but Jericho gives him a codebreaker and tries throw taker out but Taker gets the better of him and throws him out. OH SHIT! I forgot about the spot when Show does the “Close Elimination Spot!” you know the Michaels spot when his feet almost comes close to touching the floor but it doesn’t. Anyway Orton hits Show with an RKO into the top rope, and he falls out. And Taker begins to fight Orton off but Show pulls Taker down to the floor and the match cuts off here thankfully. 

*Smackdown 01/30/2009 – Elimination Chamber Qualifying Match: The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry (w/Tony Atlas)*
Taker does his usual 3 minute EPIC entrance and the Mark comes out AMPED AND PUMPED UP! Water all over him and he’s just shouting. For what 5/6 minutes this was great, Taker tried to gain control with a headlock early on but Mark was like fuck this and gave him a nasty shoulderblock so Taker when to the striking game, but again Mark said fuck this and took the power strikes to him. Taker going for “Old School” but Mark catches him in mid-air with ease was great, he would continue to use power moves to keep Taker down. Taker’s comeback was the usual moves punches, flying clothesline and he also hit a Chokeslam on Mark then puts him in the “Hell’s Gate” for the tapout. **1/2

*Smackdown 02/06/2009 The Undertaker & Triple H vs. Edge & The Big Show*
All 4 men get full entrances, so Show and Edge take like a combined 2 minutes to come down, but Taker and HHH take at least 5 minutes combined. But as for the match it was really good just wish it was longer than 9 minutes, Show and Taker starting the match off with the usual quick and AWESOME! Striking. Triple H was beating on Edge in the corner and show yells out “EDGE WHAT ARE YOU DOING” :lamo as you would expect this was mostly Edge/HHH with Triple H being in control for the majority of it until Show got the blind tag and they started the hot-tag segment which was good but not great. I think the only reason it was good was Show and Edge wasn’t aggressive enough like a Benoit/Eddie would be or a well-oiled team but they would just get some moves in then tag out with no real communication, but I guess because they are not a LEGIT team I’m over exaggerating this, and the 2nd reason it was good was the lack of crowd caring at all about this. That really hurt it. They did do an AWEOMSE! FAKE hot tag moment that kind of got the crowd into it. But they would just die down again. Taker’s hot tag ruled too as everything he hit was on point and was great, the moment of it was defiantly Edge hitting him with a spear but doesn’t go for a cover with allows Taker to apply the “Hells Gate” but show Breaks it up with a leg-drop, AWESOME play off the WM 24 match. The match would end when Triple H would try a Pedigree but Big Show stops him with a Chokeslam! He would then pick Edge up but Edge would shove him away and say “What the hell is your problem?” and shoved him, Show would reply back with a KNOCKOUT PUNCH! Triple H would then tag in The Undertaker and Taker finishes it with the Tombstone. **1/2

*Raw 02/09/2009 – The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton*
OH SHIT! Michael Cole mentioning that these two feuded in the past :mark: AWESOME! Back-and-forth striking to start match these two have chemistry together, I really do need to watch this feud back again. I was so pissed that this match started off this fast then cut to commercial just to comeback and have Orton headlocking Taker, but that doesn’t last long. Jesus! Orton’s heel work is so basic that I forgot how much I loved it, he was doing the “headlocks” and the stomps you remember them he would stomp the arm, chest, leg and head. Oh shit he even pulls out the uppercut. I loved Taker’s comeback too with usual moves but what made it great was Orton’s bumping for the, the match ends when Taker goes for a Chokeslam but Orton counters it and tries the RKO but that doesn’t work he then tries the Tombstone but Legacy run down for the 3-1 beatdown, BUT OUT OF NOWHERE YOUNG SIMBA RUNS DOWN AND ATTACKS ORTON! This allows Taker to chokeslam Cody and Shane hits the Cost-To-Cost on Ted. Orton stares down Shane from the ramp and “Here comes the money” plays WIN! Dammit though the match needed more fucking time. **

*Smackdown 02/13/2009 – WrestleMania 13 Video package & Undertaker promo*
They show a WrestlerMania 13 rewind video showing Rocky Maivia and the Bret/Austin match. They then Show Taker beating Sid for the title and the video cuts into Taker cutting a promo about he will only have one ally in the Chamber match, the chamber itself which he will use to inflict the maximum amount of pain. Victory is his destiny. As for the others; their fate is sealed. Six will enter and five will rest in peace.

*Smackdown 02/13/2009 – Fatal Four way match: The Undertaker vs. Triple H vs. The Big Show vs. Vladimir Kozlov*
Really enjoyable match here, with all hell breaking loose early on instead of doing that retarded having wrestlers tag in during a 4-way match, GOD! That fuckin’ annoying. The early part was Show/HHH in one corner and the other was Taker/Vlad but Taker says the hell with this and throws Vlad out so he and HHH can double team show and takes him out, which leads us to some HHH/Taker interactions which ruled the back-and-forth stuff with counters, OWNED! But show would cut it off and attack both men, which would lead to Show and HHH in the ring and Vlad/Taker on the outside before going to a commercial. When we come back Vlad & Show are now double teaming HHH while Taker is selling on the outside, which was pretty boring due to Vlad sucking and Show not doing much. Thankfully Show turns on Vlad and hits him with a chokeslam but Taker breaks it up and turns it up with his AWESOMENESS! The match really featured the basic 2 wrestlers in the ring, while one is on the outside selling and the other is in the ring selling. But they did manage to keep my attention which was nice, that was mainly because the cut out rest holds and went, move-move-move alright a different wrestler in the ring move-move-move. The match would end when Kozlov takes Show down with a running head butt. But Triple nails him with the Pedigree! But he turns right into a Tombstone from the Undertaker! Undertaker goes for the pin but Big Show stops him and hits the Chokeslam! Suddenly, Edge comes out of nowhere and Spears the Big Show, the ref calls for the bell IDK why because I thought all 3-ways and 4-ways were NoDq/No Countout but I guess not. My rating would have been higher if this would have gotten a LEGIT finish. **3/4 - ***

*No Way Out 2009 - Elimination Chamber Match for the WWE Championship: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show vs. Vladimir Kozlov vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Edge*
Jeff and Edge start the match and they do some stuff, with Jeff looking somewhat motivated and Edge did a great job with his eyes selling being worried about the other guys in the pods. But the shocking moment of it all was Edge going for the Spear but Jeff catches him with a small package for a 3 count :lmao that was like 3 minutes into the match. Vlad is in next and for the first time he doesn’t look awful in the ring, maybe it’s because Jeff was bumping around for which made his offense look a million times more brutal. Vlad pretty much dominates this with throws, shoulder blocks and using his own head a as a weapon. Until Show comes out next and he and Vlad work over Jeff which lasted way too long, but it was pretty hilarious seeing them play the “whatever punishment you can do I can pull out a even more violent move”. While keeping their eye on the other man, hey would eventually start to brawl and exchange blows with Show’s punch looking great while Vlad’s forearms look awful. Thankfully Triple H is out next and he murders everyone, until Show cuts him off and stuff gets boring again. Taker is last out of the pod and he begins to rip shit up punching the fuck out of Show and Vlad, he then tries to pick up Vlad for snake eyes but Vlad fucks it up so the move looks awful. Oh shit I also forgot about the AWESOME! Moment when Taker is goitng for the “Old School” on Triple H but while walking the ropes he sees Show getting to his feet on the outside so he leaps on to him but show catches him by the throat and tries the chokeslam but Taker counters with a DDT on the steel and sits up, back in the ring and then hits the “Old School” on Triple H. Vlad begins to attack Taker and mounts him in the corner, but Taker gives him the Last Ride coming out and pins him. Lol the elimination was 20 minutes after Edge’s, the match really begins to pick up again with HHH and Jeff bumping like crazy for Show and another AWESOME! Moment was Jeff climbing the chamber onto one of the pods and Show goes up to get him but Taker cuts him off and delivers a superplex from the top/middle rope H gives Show a Pedigree and Hardy leaps off the top of the pod for a Swanton to a great pop and he pins Show. I was kinda hoping we would get more Jeff/Taker interaction before he was eliminated but that wasn’t the case moment after Show was gone Jeff crotches Taker on the ropes and as Taker is getting back to his knees Jeff uses his back as a springboard and does the “Poetry emotion AKA Air Hardy” to Triple H on the outside. Jeff gets back to his feet and is against the ropes, which allows Taker to pick him up with the Tombstone and the pin. TRIPLE H VS. THE UNDERTAKER! FUCK YEAH! The mini-match here was good but it really didn’t great until they started trading finishers. However I did love the Snake Eyes spot but as Taker is going for the big boot Triple H manages to hit a spinebuster which only gets 2. But that would be topped when Taker picks up HHH up and it looks like he’s gonna use him as a battering ram but that gets reversed over the top rope and back into the ring for a Tombstone position only for Taker to reverse again and hits the Tombstone :mark: that would only get a 2 count, a minute later Triple H would hit the Pedigree which also only gets a close 2. Then the match would end when Triple H mounts Taker in the corner, and Taker would pick him up for the Last Ride, the same spot he and Vlad did earlier but this time Triple H counter but leaping over his head and hit the 2nd Pedigree for the win. ***1/2 - ***3/4

*Smackdown 02/27/2009 - The Undertaker vs. Vladimir Kozlov*
Vlad is still undefeated at this point, the match pretty much starts out with Taker wanting to strike with him so Vlad gets him in a headlock and Taker gets out, but Vlad catches him with a shoulder tackle they do that spot twice so Taker says FUCK THIS and kicks Vlad in the head. :lmao WWE also hurt this match with having a commercial 3 minutes into the match and when we comeback they showed us all the good back and forth action we missed with Taker going kidney first into the barricade and then Taker throwing him into the ring post  Anyway, Vlad begins to take over with power-moves then slows it down with a side headlock. Takers comeback was really good too not much to really write about apart from he got his normal moves in which got the crowd popping, Vlad also fucked up the snake eyes spot again. Another problem I have with the match was the ending which came out of nowhere as Taker just about to hit the “Old School” but Vlad pulls Taker off towards him and catches him in mid-air for a powerslam and the 3 count, WHAT! A powerslam. **1/2

*Raw 03/02/2009 – The Undertaker Appearance*
So after Michaels beats Vladimir, Undertaker comes out and stares down Michaels from the ramp. 

*Smackdown 03/06/2009 – The Undertaker promo*
The Undertaker comes down to the ring and gets on the mic, He says for most of his existence, others have chosen to stay clear of his path – he was the one in pursuit of the hunt. But times have changed. And that angers him. WrestleMania is the night he has chosen to show his peers what the Undertaker represents. Yet people need to feed their egos and endless souls line up to make a name for themselves at his expense, and he takes it as a personal insult. He says he accepts Shawn's challenge for WrestleMania (They air a video package of WrestleMania moments featuring Shawn Michaels) The Undertaker then says Shawn Michaels was very clever but chose the wrong man to play mind games with and it will make things worse for him. He says Shawn is an icon, but for 16 WrestleManias, they have come and fallen, and his fate will be no different. Shawn claims to have inner peace, but the time for prayer has only just begun. Undertaker then finishes it with the “sometimes it is hell trying to get to heaven” line.

*Raw 03/09/2009 – The Undertaker & Shawn Michaels promo*
Shawn Michaels comes down to the ring and gets on the mic, he says 16-0 at WrestleMania a a streak so extraordinary, no one could even think of replicating it. But said when it comes to show-stopping performances, he is no slouch himself. That's why on Friday he interrupted Taker's promo with a video package of his greatest Wrestlemania moments Shawn says he respects The Undertaker, but he's not afraid of him. He says Taker may be 16-0, but he is Mr. Wrestlemania. He says he's never been outperformed on the grandest stage and he never will. And that streaks are meant to be broken, good things must come to an end and nothing lasts forever. Michaels said at WrestleMania, something’s gotta give. The lights go out and an Undertaker video package airs of all his 16 Mania wins. When the video ends the lights came back on, AND TAKER IS IN THE RING BEHIND SHAWN! AWESOME! Without even turning around, Shawn said “hello Undertaker, I’ve been expecting you.” :lmao Taker says Shawn's arrogance has clouded his judgement he respects Shawn, but he’s fought many people he’s respected and they’ve all fallen. Shawn said he and Taker have taken very different career paths and different life paths. Shawn says he shouldn't have to qualify for anything at Wrestlemania. He says he revolutionized the ladder match, wrestled for an hour to win the title, and retired Ric Flair. He says he's still the showstopper and he can't wait for this. Taker then says Shawn has had epic victories at WrestleMania, but then again he’s had bitter defeat, despite all of his achievements, the dream of beating him at WrestleMania is a dream that will be soon laid to rest. Taker says Shawn concerns himself with being the showstopper, and with winning a match and breaking the streak. Taker says he should concern himself with what he's going to do with him physically, and what he will do to his soul. He says he doesn't need to steal the show, but Shawn will realize that he is the most dangerous entity to enter the ring. He says Shawn should have been more careful with what he wished for, because he's opened hells gates. Taker is just about to say Shawn would REST IN….. But Michaels would cut him off and say he'll rest quite comfortably because he'll know he did the impossible, and that's ended Taker's streak. Shawn reminds him that even though he's beaten all of his Wrestlemania opponent's he's never beaten Shawn, and he never will.

*Smackdown 03/13/2009 - The Undertaker vs. Vladimir Kozlov*
This was a lot better than their first match together which was 2 week ago, Vlad still can’t punch for shit but Taker was still pissed that he lost the first match so he came out super aggressive and violent and just went straight for the striking really dominating Vlad until Vlad started using his head as a battering ram. I should also mention Vlad was bumping really well for Takers moves in the early portion; Taker did the same when Vlad began to take over too working on the head with headlocks and punches, no real moves. But yeah this was a total carry job by Taker and I might be wrong but this was Vlad’s best one-on-one match ever. The match would end when Taker would hit the “Old School” Then the chokeslam, but decides he’s not done so he picks Vlad up and ends it with the Tombstone. **3/4

*Raw 03/16/2009 – The Undertaker & Shawn Michaels vs. John Bradshaw Layfield & Vladimir Kozlov*
Perfectly acceptable tag match here, it was pretty much an “Angle advancement” to further put over the Michaels/Taker feud. The match starts with Vlad and Michaels in the ring and Vlad throws HBK down so he sticks his hand out for Taker to tag in but he doesn’t so Shawn goes and attacks Vlad but that doesn’t work either so he just tags Takers chest and he’s now in the match :lmao Taker comes in and rip shit up the stares down Michaels with the “That’s how you get shit done” look on his face as we go to commercial. Back and Michaels is now in full control on offense taking it to JBL so be begins to get cocky and goes for the SCM but Vlad takes a run at Michaels on the apron but he ducks and turns right into a big boot to the face by JBL, and they begin the heel-segment on Michaels which was alright JBL was pretty brutal with strikes while Vlad just does rest holds to waste time. Taker’s how tag Ruled like it always does as he quickens the pace and hit the trade mark spots, the match ends when Taker was measuring JBL for the chokeslam but Michaels blind tags himself in and nails JBL with the Sweet Chin Music and the 3 count. Post-Match: Taker is PISSED! So he stalked Shawn up the ramp, but Michaels goes into the back as Taker stops on the stage he does the “Taker look back” looks back to the ring allowing SHAWN TO COME BACK OUT AND HIT TAKER WITH THE SWEET CHIN MUSIC! ** - **1/4

*Smackdown 03/20/2009 - The Undertaker vs. John Bradshaw Layfield*
Before the match Taker gets on the mic and says make no mistakes about it, Shawn is the prey, and he is the hunter and when he least expects it, he will feel the wrath of the Undertaker. The match was damn good and it brings back memories of their 2004 feud together, where it was just a brutal slugfest brawl match from bell-to-bell, both men throwing awesome punches throughout. I will admit the commercial breaks hurt the pacing on the match it just came at the wrong time. But when we do comeback Taker hit the leg drop on the ring apron and he goes to whip JBL into the barricade but he reverses it and send Taker knee first in security wall and he smartly begins to work on Taker’s legs with stomps, kicks and using the ropes as a weapon too he even used the Figure-Four and they do this AWESOME! Spot where taker is laying on his back but sits up and grabs JBL’s throat and it looks like he’s gonna pick him up for the chokeslam but JBL counters with a chop block and begins to work on the leg again but only briefly because Taker starts the comeback while still selling the leg. I loved the near fall with Taker again going for the chokeslam but JBL kicks the knee and hit him with the CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL! But the match would end when JBL is going to pick Taker up be he counters it into Hell’s Gate and JBL taps. ***

*Raw 03/23/2009 – The Undertaker promo*
The lights go out for at least a minute then the purple light comes in and Taker is already standing in the ring, AWESOME! He says Shawn Michael’s bold and brash behavior has taken their issue to a whole new level. He tells Michaels that his obsession with being "Mr. WrestleMania" has made his ability to decipher between what is fantasy and what is reality. Undertaker said it was true he has never beaten Shawn Michaels in a one-on-one match, not even once, but he reminds him that the last time they did battle, Michaels spent five years at home in agonizing pain trying to recover. Undertaker says at WrestleMania we'll find out if HBK is really afraid of The Undertaker and he reminds Shawn that when he's standing across the ring from him at WrestleMania and he's questioning his own faith, he has to remember that he was the one that opened the gates to hell. Shawn Michaels’ music but he doesn’t come out in fact he’s shows up on the tron saying that Undertaker's streak is made to be broken. He's in a cemetery, saying that it might be sacrilegious for him to be there, but he calls it defiance. He says that he respects Taker, but he's not afraid of him and he brings up the last sixteen WrestleMania opponents that The Undertaker has left to rot in hell. He says he's not afraid and then he runs down the entire list of Undertaker's victories, complete with highlights. AWESOME! He even points out that a fresh grave has been dug, surrounding by the darkness of death, but it's not for HBK, and it’s for Taker's undefeated WrestleMania streak. It won't just be buried six feet under, but it will be buried all the way to the evil depths of hell. Michaels kicks over the gravestone and watches it fall into the freshly-dug grave, saying "Undefeated streak....REST....IN...PEACE". A new gravestone appears with a 16-1 etched into it as Michael’s shovels dirt into the grave. When we come back to the ring, Undertaker is staring a hole through the tron, pacing around the middle of the ring, showing all these emotion in a space of 15 seconds. Lawler wonders if the Undertaker is going to be the same at WrestleMania with Michaels getting into his head and if Michaels has a death wish. FUCKIN’ AWESOME STUFF HERE! 

*Smackdown 03/27/2009 – Shawn Michaels' Tribute to the Undertaker*
A bunch of druids in white come out to the ring and surround it they even added the white smoke, then some songs plays it was the same on HBK used before he real song at WM 25, anyway. A man comes out slow walk and all dressed in white which would be Shawn Michaels AWESOME! He says in beginning, God created the heavens and Earth, and to begin, it was only darkness. And God said, "Let there be light." and there was light. He saw the light and that it was good, and divided the light from dark. He called the light day and the darkness night. Genesis, chapter 1. He says he and The Undertaker represent both darkness and light, and they've coexisted here for almost 20 years, but they've taken very different paths. Taker walks in the shadows, but he thrives in the spotlight. Taker strikes fear in the hearts of his opponents, but as he walks through the valley of the shadow of death, he will fear no evil, for thou art with me. He has eternal life, victory over the grave, but the same cannot be said for The Streak. When he faces Mr. WrestleMania, the man he has never beaten, his Streak will come to an end and only he will ascend victorious. Shawn Michaels’ music starts playing and he does hit usual dancing, but suddenly THE UNDERTAKER CLIMBS THROUGH THE MAT FROM UNDER THE RING HOLY SHIT! WIN! He goes for the Chokeslam, but Shawn slipped out to the apron and he quickly leaves and retreated to the back. Taker signals for the end. Man this just better and better each week. 

*Raw 03/30/2009 – The Undertaker & Shawn Michaels promo*
They show video highlights of the Shawn/Taker segment from Smackdown, and we go back to the ring and there is a funeral set in the middle of the ring. It has a casket and a few funeral wreaths and even pictures of his wins over Taker next to the casket. Shawn Michaels comes out all in black, and he says he stands her as a man unafraid; the entire procession is not for him, but for Undertaker. Shawn says the streak ceases to exist this Sunday and his undefeated streak at WrestleMania will cease to exist. They've fought before, and it's always been him who's come out on top, and he's never been able to beat him. Shawn says in Taker's illustrious career the only thing he hasn't accomplished is beating Shawn. Shawn promises this Sunday will be no different. He goes over what he's done the past few weeks with the superkick, the graveyard promo, and the tribute to Taker on Friday. Shawn says he's done it all without the slightest bit of consequence, and not a hint of retribution. Shawn opens the casket, and reveals that Taker is not inside and says there will not be any retribution. Taker said he uses WrestleMania as an opportunity to show what he represents, but he takes the fact that he doesn't think he can end The Streak as a personal insult. Shawn says he's Mr. Wrestlemania, and this Sunday every moment over the past 24 years will pale in comparison to what he achieves. Shawn says the next day they'll talk about the title matches, legends, ladders, and 70,000 people, but the moment everyone will remember will be when Shawn Michaels pins The Undertaker. THE LIGHTS GO OUT! TAKER IS IN THE RING, BUT SHAWN IS GONE! :mark: Taker shows his frustration that his mind games aren't working brilliantly by destroying the set, he then turns his attention to the casket, he opens it but Shawn isn't in there either. Taker turns around, but Shawn slides out from underneath the casket and delivers sweet chin music. I LOVE THIS FEUD! 

*WrestleMania 25 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels *
This match right here, oh boy. I loved the entrances from Shawn coming down in this elevator all in white with this lighter version of Takers theme before Sexyboy hits then Taker coming up from the depths of hell, WHAT? It’s not as good as the 26 coming up from hell cause that one had freakin’ green lasers. But this was just as enjoyable. Now on to the match, the opening Saw Shawn sticking and moving using his quickness to piss off taker and possible but doubt in Takers head that “Maybe He Can’t beat Shawn” Shawn FAKING! A knee injury 4 minutes in was hilarious, but Taker used that as motivation for when he was on offense just to beat the shit out of him. Michaels’ bumping in this match was AWESOME! A couple of minutes later Taker would miss the running big boot in the corner which would allow Michaels to begin working on the leg with a figure-four but Taker had an great break up for it, he would pull HBK towards him and punch him in the face. Takers selling post that, was spotty as fuck as he would do a bunch of power moves then remember he had his legs worked on slap it one then time and that’s all it took for the knee to be fine now. Another thing I like was it was probably mid match when Taker is going for the chokeslam but Michaels counter into the crossface and has him locked in it for at least a minute but Taker would get out of it and hit a side walk slam. They do some more great back and forth action, and they do another AWESOME! Spots where Shawn goes to hit SCM out of nowhere but Taker just falls onto his back out of instants and to ensure he doesn’t get hit by it so Michaels’ goes for the figure-four again but Taker counter that into “Hell’s Gate” Michaels ends up getting to the ropes and the fight on the outside. SHIT BEGINS TO GET REAL! First Michaels misses a moonsault or it looks like Taker just shoves him away in mid-move but then seconds later, Taker goes for the Vintage dive but Michaels pulls a camera man in front of him to take the full attack BUT! They completely miss where the dive is gonna be so Taker lands on his FUCKIN’ HEAD AND NECK, I’m shocked he didn’t break hi fuckin’ neck on that. I love the rest spot they used to cover up that Taker might be dead as the whole crowd is pretty much silent at this point and they just look at Taker on the floor, so Shawn asks the ref to count him out and he does. This is when they get the crowd back into it as they begin to get louder-and-louder as Taker slowly makes it back to the ring. AND NOW THE MATCH GETS FUCKIN’ EPIC AS THEY BEGIN TO TRADE FINISHERS! So Taker makes it in to the ring on the 9 count and Michaels goes for SCM but Taker grabs the throat and delivers a chokeslam for a great near-fall. Minutes later Michaels again goes for SCM but Taker again grabs the throat but this time Michaels’ slaps the hand away and hits SCM. Oh shit the Last Ride counter into the sunset flip just for Taker to grab Michaels with both hands and back to his and nail the last ride was another awesome false-finish. But shit gets even great with probably the best false-finish I’ve ever seen okay Taker throws Michaels’ over the top rope and Michaels being Michaels’ has to do the skinning the cat thing and try to come over the ropes again, well Taker sees this and catches him in mid-move in the tombstone position and Michaels’ try’s to fight him off but that doesn’t work and he hits the tombstone but Michaels kicks out in like 2 and 9ths of a second. TAKER’S FACE SOLD IT TREMENDOUSLY. Oh then they ruin the awesome stretch but countering the tombstone into the DDT but Taker didn’t hit his head at all and Michaels took all the punishment on the back. The Michaels tuning up the back and actually delivering SCM was a hell of a false-finish too. The match would end when they would trade offenses but Michaels would get the better of the two but he would go up to the rope and attempt the moonsault from the top but Taker would catch him in the tombstone position and connect with it for the 3 count and the win. HOLY SHIT! The finish was ridiculously smart and it helped the rematch the following year with the story of Shawn wrestling a near perfect match but made that one mistake and it costed him immortality. ****3/4

*Superstars 04/16/2009 – The Undertaker vs. Matt Hardy*
This was Takers first match since WM25, which was 2 weeks ago. Matt was a heel here as he turned on his brother for the 410th time and costed him the WWE Championship. The match is like 10 minutes long and the commercials really hurt the pacing of it. But from what I saw this was damn enjoyable as Taker was aggressive like always with everything he throw looked great and as for Matt he bumped like the Matt I like. The first 6 minutes was all Taker but he goes for the chokeslam but for some reason he held the choke on and looked at the crowd allowing matt to hit a neckbreaker but I also think he tried to hit the twist of fate, who knows it just looked awful. Anyway he begins to work the head and neck, cause he’s a smart man kinda and he watched the dive he took at Mania which almost broke Takers neck. Matt’s butterfly submission was pretty great, best thing he did in the whole match. Taker’s comeback was even better than normal as Matt goes up to the middle rope and he goes to leap of with an axe handle but in mid-air Taker kills him with a nasty boot. The match would end when Undertaker calls for the chokeslam again, but Matt bails to the floor and grabs a chair, then drops it, as he circles the ring. But decides he doesn’t want to get back in so he takes the count out loss. Post-Match: Jeff now hits the ring and beats Matt down. They brawl ringside, and Jeff throws him into the ring where Taker is still standing and he gives Matt the chokeslam. **1/2

*Smackdown 4/17/2009 – The Undertaker vs. Shelton Benjamin*
This not as good as their first match together but much better than the second. Shelton does the smart thing instead of working the legs like you usually do he works the head and neck. The early part of the match was great with instead of Shelton getting the quick start, Taker started off really quick and took it right to Shelton cause he knew the neck was hurting. So he tried to get the entire signature shit in like “Old School” but they do this great spot with Taker going for a suplex but Shelton is able to float over the top and hit the neck breaker and starts to take over. He really begins to slow the pace down with a side head lock he even threw a sick elbow and knee to the side of the head. Man Shelton’ s aggressiveness was great here, as he didn’t let up for a second and he didn’t do any silliness E.G. stop working the neck/head and target an arm for no reason. They do this awesome spot when Shelton does this awesome leap to the top rope but Taker catches him and tries to chokeslam Shelton but Shelton this time counters into a DDT for a good near-fall. The match ends when Shelton begins to get cocky and he does the cutthroat taunt, he picks Taker up for the tombstone but Taker backwards reverses it and hits a tombstone of his own for the win. ***1/4

*Smackdown 04/24/2009 The Undertaker vs. The Big Show*
This match fuckin’ ruled Show & Taker have that underrated chemistry, I don’t think people understand how great most of their 2008 matches were and this was on the level if not better than those. So before the match Show gets on the mic and cuts a promo about how he’s leaving SD for RAW now and he’s gonna knock the Undertaker out. Show warming up with boxing the air and shrugging his shoulders during Takers entrance to intimidate his was great. The early going in the match was Taker using his quickness to get away from show but Show was hitting these AWESOME body blows, so Taker say fuck it and starts punching away on Show. And it looked like Taker was getting the better of the strikes so Show does for the head butts. As we comeback from commercial Show head butts Taker in the back of the head and Taker sells the thing like it was a death blow, anyway Show sees this and begins to work on it. And it looks a million times more brutal due to the size of Show. The false-finish with Show hitting the chokeslam was good but I didn’t like that it didn’t mean anything, and they just did it because it’s show’s second finisher now. The slugfest leading to the finish was AWESOME! Both men know how to throw a hell of a punch and it just looked sweet. But that leads to this PHENOMENAL spot where Taker is going for the “Old School” and as he’s coming down Show catches him with a straight right hand, which connected beautifully. The sell job by Taker was ridiculously great too as he gets back to his feet like a drunk man and falls on to the middle rope so the top half of his body is on the outside of the ring. He then staggers back to his feet and just falls to the mat :lmao Taker does come back to his feet and Show punches him in the back of the head, but he doesn’t go for the pin . Show goes to pick Taker up by the hair and the ref sees Taker is clearly out of it the ref calls for the bell. Post-Match: As Show is celebrating, Taker again goes that AMAZING wobbling back to his feet with his hands up still asking show to fight. But Show acts like he doesn’t want any but tries to attack Taker, but Taker knocks him out of the ring. ***1/2





Spoiler: The Undertakers 2009 year Part II



*SummerSlam 2009 – The Undertaker returns*
So after CM Punk beat Jeff Hardy in a TLC match, Punk holds the world title over Jeff who is lying on the mat. Suddenly the lights go out, and when they comeback Taker is lying where Jeff was. Punk looks down and Taker sits up and grabs him by the throat and delivers a chokeslam. 

*Smackdown 09/04/2009 – The Undertaker Appearance *
This is at the end of a Matt Hardy vs. CM Punk match and Punk has a chair around the face and neck of Matt, he’s just about to throw him into the ringpost. When the lights go out, when the comeback Taker is standing in front of him, Punk runs towards Taker but Taker catches him by the throat and chokeslams him right through the announce table. 

*Smackdown 09/11/2009 – The Undertaker & CM Punk promo*
The Undertaker comes out to the ring and he gets on the mic. He says the sands of time have slowly fallen through the hour glass. But in 2 day he’s going to claim the world heavyweight championship. On once again cast his shadow of darkness over Smackdown. He then says he’s sure CM Punk is getting tired because he's waking up every night in a pool of his own sweat, consumed with fear because he knows, he knows that his breaking point is realized when he feels the grip of hells gate. Submission is the only alternative for the eternity of pain. And Punk when you submit, and you will submit not only will you relinquish the world championship. But you personally hand me your soul and thus symphony of lies with end. CM Punk comes out now and says he see thought the smoke and mirrors and sees Taker for what he was. While Hardy was the Charismatic Enabler, but The Undertaker is so much worse. He has prayed on these people’s chemically enabled minds. He then compares Taker to Alice and wonderland :lmao He then say all these people actually believe in the undertaker and they believe he can has magical powers, and that he has a chance at taking Punk's title this Sunday. He said he's stronger than the people Taker has beaten and made a name off of, guys like Hogan, Flair, and Shawn Michaels and says that he is stronger than all of them, and he's not after Taker's soul. He just wants to make Taker tap out. He wants to imagine the fans' reaction when it happens, when Taker taps to the Anaconda Vise. They already lost their hero Jeff Hardy, and when Taker taps they're all going to go on a pill-and-booze binge because their hero Taker tapped out. And the fans will get a glimpse tonight when Punk makes Matt Hardy tap out to the Vise. Taker then says the fans won't be saying "Just say no", they will say "Rest....in...Peace".

*Smackdown 09/11/2009 – The Undertaker appearance*
After the Matt Hardy vs. CM Punk match, the lights go out as Punk celebrates, and when they come up. Taker is standing at the top of the ramp, posing with it as we go off the air.

*Breaking Point 2009 – Submissions Match For The World Heavyweight Championship: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk*
Do you know where this PPV is Montreal, you know where the "Montreal Screwjob" happens, so can you guess what the finish was 8D I’ll get to that later. Anyway this was pretty much 8-9 and half minutes long. Punk’s awesomeness at the start is great as Taker comes rushing in and Punk bails to the floor. When they come in they do the story with Punk using his quickness early on to get the better of Taker but gets cocky and that allows Taker to get some punishment in. They do mesh really well in this match with the clash of styles and they do some nice exchanges of strikes on the outside, Punk with his kicks and elbows while Taker throws punches and knees. Punk officially takes over when Taker whips him into the barricade and goes charging in looking for a boot but Punk moves out of the way and goes knee first into it. He then picks up a chair and hits taker twice with it. Back in the ring Punk hit the running knee in the corner and goes for the bulldog but Taker punches him off and goes for “Old School” but Punk counters that and hits him with a superplex off the top. They go back to the exchange of strikes and it still looks awesome. I really did love Punk trying to slow the match down but Taker kept trying to speed it up. The match ends when Taker tries the Chokeslam, but Punk hits a roundhouse kick to block. He then begins to crawl over to Taker, but out of nowhere Taker locks in the Hell's Gate and Punk taps in like 2 seconds. Post-Match: Teddy Long comes out on the stage and reminds everyone that Vickie Guerrero banned Hell's Gate a long time ago, so the match is restarted. Punk attacks Taker from behind and gives him one punch, he then goes for the Last Ride but Punk slips out and hits him with a chop block and applies this half assed Anaconda Vice and the ref calls for the bell. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I Fuckin’ hate the "Montreal Screwjob" finish Nobody gives a shit anymore, it’s just a sad attempt at heat and it doesn’t work. They booked themselves into a no win/no win stipulation here. They want to keep the belt on Punk and extend this out, but they can't have Taker submit. ***

*Smackdown 09/18/2009 – The Undertaker’s Revenge*
Teddy Long is getting into a limo, he tells the driver we have to go. The window rolls down and the Undertaker is behind the wheel. And Taker drops the line “BUCKLE UP TEDDY!” :lmao oh and Teddy’s facial sell job is the GREATEST THINK I'VE EVER SEEN! 

*Smackdown 09/25/2009 – The Undertaker vs. CM Punk*
They work the Punk backing away from Taker in the early part, because he’s scared but he uses his quickness to get away. Punks face when Taker threw him over the top rope before the commercial was great. Taker seemed to wrestle smarter games here as it would look like Punk was gonna take over but Taker would use his exp. and counter that into something else. But Punk would actually get some offense in when Taker tries the “Old School” but Punk hits him with a round house kick and delivers 6/8 headbutts and delivers a suppersplex, he begins to work on Taker’s head and even puts Taker in a headlock using his legs and elbows him in the forehead, Taker gets out of it but attempting a chokeslam but then they start trading strikes. I wanna say the match is the exact same match they had at breaking point but just on TV. They used the same spots and counters and told the same story; the only difference was the finish. That happens when Taker throws the World Heavyweight Championship inside the ring and takes the top of the announcer's table off. He tries to power bomb Punk through the table but Punk escapes. Punk goes to the eyes and rolls in right before 10, so he wins by count out. ***

*Smackdown 10/02/2009 – The Undertaker’s Message *
He says CM Punk you are about to enter the domain of the Undertaker, the domain of suffering. A place with no forgiveness’, he will reclaim the world heavyweight championship and in the process he’s gonna knock him down from black horse of Self-righteousness and for all the pills, alcohol and drugs that you despise you’ll gonna need them. Welcome to HELLS PLAYGROUND, WELLCOMES TO SAITANS STRUTURE, WELCOME TO HELL IN A CELL! 

*Smackdown 10/02/2009 – The Undertaker, John Cena, Triple H & Shawn Michaels vs. CM Punk, Randy Orton, Ted Dibiase & Cody Rhodes*
Really, really solid match here all 8 men were on and it lead to a fun little TV main even. Wish It would of gotten more time though. Triple H beating the shit out of Ted was hilarious, oh and the slow face-off between Shawn and Michaels after the tag and even the little tease was AWESOME! Commercial fucked up the timing though as get to see Cena, HBK and HHH beat the shit out of Ted and Cody comeback from a commercial and Taker hits the “Old School” then tags out to Triple H, FUCK! He then beats up Cody for a bit then tags in HBK. But Cody gets the upperhand and the heels go to work. Funny thing is the match has been going on for at least 6 minutes now and now Orton finally gets a tag, Punk would get one minute later. I really enjoyed the heat-segment when Orton & Punk was in the ring working cause it was aggressive and really to the point with moves, they worked on the mid-section and the head. Cody and Ted not so much, but they did well with the cheap heel tactics like attacking Shawn when the ref was distracted. Cena’s hot tag was fun, he got his shit in and made Ted and Cody look like a bitch for the most part but they came back with this AWESOME! High/low double team as we go to another commercial. The heat on Cena was just as good if not better, Orton just beating on him was great and IDK if it was done on purpose but his facial expressions were great. I miss this cold and calculated Orton. Ted hits these two phenomenal fist drops, which would be the best thing he would do in his entire life. Triple H would get the hot tag and completely dominate Punk who is the world champ at the time. He tags in Taker and Punk leaps over and blind tags Orton :lmao Orton/Taker interaction was magic but short. The match would break down and with every guy hitting their finisher but that would leave Orton in the ring with all 4 faces and again his facial expression was GOLD! Anyway Cena scares Orton into a tombstone and Taker would pin him for the win. ***1/4

*Hell In A Cell 2009 – Hell In A Cell Match For The World Heavyweight Championship: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk*
Just like their other matches in this feud they only get 9/10 minutes. Punk throwing hid t-shirt at Taker to piss him off was great. This was pretty great, Punk bumps huge for Taker and Taker does the same. I guess this was around the time Taker tried to get a dress code and Punk disagreed because Taker pretty much controlled the majority of this. Or that could just have been the story of the match as this is Punk’s first Cell match and Taker is KING! In here so he used his exp’ to control the match. I’m not complaining cause Taker is AWESOME dishing out his punishment here. At one point in the match Punk is on the ring apron and Taker kicks him in the head and he goes flying off back first into the cell, but the way he gains control is just magnificent that spot he rolls under the ring and to the other side can comes out well Taker see this and goes for him but Punk dropkicks the ring steps into his knees, and Taker sells it like he just got shot. I’m actually surprised it took Punk 3 matches in to start working on the leg. Punk also hit the running knee on the apron and goes for the bulldog but Taker counters and throws him into the cell back first again. Punk’s bumping rules, he gains control but kicking Taker into the cell then delivers the missile dive through the middle rope. The back-and-forth strikes rule again, with both men hitting everything on point and clean. I kinda with Punk would have worked the leg a bit more before they started trading big moves, they do this AWESOME! False finish with Punk doing the running knee in the corner but Taker counters it into the Last Ride for 2. Taker then goes for “Old School” but Punk counters by pulling him off the ropes and into a knee to the chest which looked AWESOME! Taker hits a chokeslam but doesn’t go for a cover, Punk gets back to his feet and Taker hits the tombstone for the win. Taker even selling the knee when the match was over was pretty badass. ***1/4

*Smackdown 10/09/2009 – The Undertaker promo*
Tony Chimel asks us to welcome the Undertaker into the arena. Taker comes down to the ring and gets on the mic, he says He is the reaper of wayward souls. The World Heavyweight Championship, he calls the world title the Holy Grail :mark: of everyone who steps in the ring. That is why it was important that he possesses it. But now consumed by the fortune and fame, the recognition that this title will lead them will make them sorry the road they do not want to embark on because it ends in his yard, the graveyard. Taker says Punk got off easy at Hell in a Cell but he will not leave Bragging Rights with his soul. Rey Mysterio’s heart is legendary and his courage is questionable, but he will show him no mercy. Undertaker said his battles with Batista in the past are epic, but not even his power will be enough to save his soul. Taker says it was appropriate that the match is called “Fatal” Fourway, because one by one they will REST IN PEACE!

*Smackdown 10/16/2009 – The Undertaker’s message*
Taker is backstage and some AWESOME! Dark music plays, Taker says It has been said history has a way or repeating itself, but not in my yard CM Punk, Teddy Long and Scott Armstrong. The 3 of you have once again tried to wrestle the Holy Grail from deaths grip. I think you should know once you entre hells a gate there no turning back. CM Punk at bragging right I will take your soul and in one weeks’ time I will give you your Last Rights. 

*Smackdown 10/23/2010 - Submission Match For The World Heavyweight Championship: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk*
CM Punk is out now with Scott Armstrong and Teddy Long. Punk says it's empowering when he walks into an arena where he knows beyond a he can beat down and physically everyone in it. It makes him feel strong to know everyone sitting at home he can make them cry with a blink of an eye. He claims he's going to make the Undertaker tap out for the second time. And he knows it hard and how horrible your lives are thinking the undertaker is gonna pulls out a miracle and beat him. Well The Undertaker cannot beat him and his bragging right start tonight when he becomes your Straight Edge World Heavyweight Champion. And the best thing about it is theirs nothing you can do about it HAHAHA! Before the match I must add Takers dyed black goatee beard OWNS! Take comes out aggressive to start working on the arm for “Old School” but doesn’t even go for the move, Punk goes for the Vice and Taker wiggles out like half a second into trying to lock in the move. They do this AWESOME! Spot where Taker tries to do the big boot and knock Punk off the apron, but Punk jumps down and Taker gets hung up on the ropes. Punk then begins working on the knees. But he begins the get cocky which allows Taker to comeback and lead to their mid-match strike off. Taker going for “Old School” And Teddy getting up off the chair for the false heel-turn, Punk then tells him to hand him the chair and he looks like he was but instead he gives it to the ring to give to Punk instead:lmao Taker sees that that happen chokeslams Armstrong then stares down Teddy and he looks like he’s about to leave until Punk hits him with 3 chair shots. Punk tells Teddy to get another ref as he locks in the Vice, but as a ref comes down Taker reverses it into Hell’s Gate and Punk taps. This was prob their weakest match of the 4 they had together in 2009. **3/4

*Bragging Rights 2009 - World Heavyweight Championship vs. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Batista vs. Rey Mysterio*
The match was solid, nothing AMAZING! Nice to see someone told Taker his dye beard was awful cause he shaved it off. The match starts off as expected quick and a lot of Punk being the main focus. The match was really 2 guys in the ring, as soon as one gets knocked down another guy would come in, and so on. We did get a mini Taker/Batista interaction with ruled. Rey/Punk tore it up too, Punk/Taker was enjoyable but it was just the same spots we’ve been getting. I don’t think the match had a single rest-hold which was nice. They even did this sweet spot when Rey tries a senton on Taker but Taker counters into a last ride, and as he’s about to deliver the move Batista spears him. Anyway so Taker is lying in the ring and Rey & Dave can figure out who is gonna try the pin so they have a faceoff, well Rey going running towards Taker and he catches him by the throat but Batista makes the save. Rey gives Taker the 619 and Batista hits him with a spinebuster but Punk breaks up the pin cover. I also realized Batista and Rey didn’t really touch but I loved the tease spot when Batista had Taker beat with the Batista bomb but Ret breaks it up, they have a little argument and Batista says "YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE MY FRIEND!" and throws Rey out. The match would end minutes later when Taker hits Batista with the Tombstone. Post-Match: Josh Matthews attempted to interview Rey Mysterio, who was trying to help Batista up, Rey says, "Hey, we did our best. We'll get 'I’m next time." Batista holds his arm around Rey and asks if people think they were close. He says that's wrong, and he thinks he was, and he's tired of coming this close. You know what else he thinks? He's tired of his best friend stabbing him in the back. Rey is shocked and Batista asks if he thinks he's playing. "I am not playing. Rey, I'm not playing. I'm gonna rip your head off." Rey pleads for reason, but Batista DESTROYS him with a clothesline and continues to assault on the outside. "YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE MY FRIEND!" Rey begs for mercy, but Batista tosses him into the crowd barrier. ***1/4 - ***1/2

*Smackdown 11/06/2009 – The Undertaker & Chris Jericho promo*
The Undertaker comes to the ring and gets on the mic, it seems like an eternity ago the demand of hell pass judgement of the mortal world, and unleashed creature of the night so powerful that the mention of his name would bring shivers down spines of those who oppose him. It was at the survivor Series that the dark birth of the Undertaker was born and year by year those who oppose me would bearish at his feet. Yet year after year, they still come for this. They come for a change to be World Heavyweight Champion. This is the Holy Grail for all those who step forth in this ring. The Big Show betrayed an entire team; he betrayed an entire team for the opportunity to become World champion. But what he won was the opportunity to be terminated by the hand of the Dead Man and that brings him to Chris Jericho, there are a few things that bring joy to his dark heart. One is fighting alongside his brother Kane, and the other is fighting AGAINST his brother Kane. AWESOME! Line. He then says Chris Jericho took that opportunity away from him. So at the Survivor Series, Jericho’s soul will be his. Chris Jericho then comes out, and walks down to the ring but doesn’t get inside. He says finally after 10 long years this is what the WWE universe has been waiting for, two of the biggest stars in WWE history, Chris Jericho vs. The Undertaker face-to-face. The best in the world and The Phenom. He gives us the definition of phenomenon and says it describes him better than Taker. Jericho said he was the best at what he does, and that makes him unusual. Jericho said he was the only one to stand up and tell the truth, claiming Undertaker has been brainwashing the fans for 20 years. Jericho said Undertaker wasn’t a Deadman, he was just a MAN. Jericho said he was on the role of his career, and he can beat anybody that he chooses at this point, and at Survivor Series he's going to win the title. He claims to not be afraid of Taker's smoke and his infamous gong doesn’t bring shivers down his spine. He’s not afraid of Taker. Jericho got in the ring and informed the Undertaker that he was the NEW Phenom and there’s nothing Taker can do about it because he is the best in the world at what he does. Undertaker grabs Jericho by the throat, but Jericho kicked him in the gut and they begin to brawl. Jericho charged Undertaker, but was knocked down and rolled out of the ring.

*Raw 11/09/2009 – The Undertaker appearance*
It’s after a Jerisho/DX match and they selling in the ring, Justin Roberts gets on the mic and says he was just informed of the main event of Raw next week it will be a triple threat tag team match, Chris Jericho & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X vs. John Cena AND THE UNDERTAKER! Taker comes out on the stage and does the trademark cut throat taunt. 

*Smackdown 11/13/2009 – The Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho*
FIRST EVER ONE-ON-ONE meeting, OH SHIT! And it only took 10 years. Like all Taker vs. Smaller guy match they do the smaller quicker guy hitting first but that doesn't last long and Taker begins to throw him around. Taker does hit the leg drop early on and then begins to work the arm for “Old School” but as Taker is climbing up the ropes, Jericho armdrags him off the top. As we go to a commercial, Jericho begins to work on the head with punches and he even does the side boot on the face. Taker tries a comeback but counters with a flying missile drop kick and locks in a side headlock, they fight on the outside and Jericho gets his cocky offense in and throws him around, back in the ring and he completely works on the head, but it’s mostly strikes. Taker’s brief comebacks were fun while it lasted but Jericho cutting him off at every turn was great. They do this AWESOME spot when Taker is about to hit the last ride but Jericho counters out over the top and hits the code breaker, for a great near-fall. He begins to get cocky but and tries the TOMBSTONE but Taker counters, But Jericho counters again with a chop block. The match would end when Lionsault from Jericho to the Undertaker but the Undertaker immediately rises up. Taker tries a chokeslam but Jericho amazingly rolls out of it and locks in the Walls of Jericho. The Undertaker tries to roll out but Jericho tries to keep the hold on. The Undertaker somehow gets Jericho into Hell's Gate and Jericho taps after about 5 seconds. Post-Match: The Big Show decides to make his way out to the ring. Show taunts the Deadman but it's just a distraction. Jericho attacks Taker and then Big Show joins in the destruction. Show chokeslams Taker and follows that up with a leg drop. Jericho locks in the Walls of Jericho and The Big Show locks in his Cobra Clutch submission. KANE comes down and Big Show leaves Jericho all by himself and Kane takes Y2J out with a boot. Jericho rolls out. **1/2 - **3/4

*Raw 11/16/2009 – The Undertaker & John Cena vs. JeriShow (Chris Jericho & Big Show) vs. D-Generation X *
This was 7 minutes long; I swear the entrances were longer than the actual match. So with the 7 minutes it was technically sound but it could have been a million times better. I would say if felt more like post-Raw dark match just to give the fans something to go home happy with. Taker gets the drones and quire music before the GONG! EPIC! Crowd pop before he even came out was great too. The rules are standard 3-way rules but you can only tag your partner in, Cena, Michaels and Jericho start but Jericho tags in show straight away, HBK tags in HHH and Cena tags Taker in :lmao The faceoff between HHH/Taker was fun then they looked at Show and he had that OH SHIT! Look on his face :lmao they take him out and we have a mini-Taker/HHH match. We then get a Michaels/Taker interaction :mark: but Show cuts it off with a spear. Cena blind tagging himself in when it looked like Taker was gonna chokeslam Jericho was weird. I have to admit the match was like 12 different tag matches rolled into one, with 0 rest-hold it was basically 2 men do stuff, and one of the other 4 guys come in and stop it and so on. So I did get lost numerous times. Anyway the match ends when Cena beats Triple H with the FU. Post-Match: Taker hits Cena with the Tombstone, because he was still pissed about the blind tag. And Taker poses with the world title to end the show. **3/4

*Smackdown 11/20/2009 - The Brothers of Destruction vs. JeriShow*
The KANE/Taker mesh-up theme was great but not on the level of the 2001 version of it. KANE! Walking slow to match Taker’s pace was hilarious. As for the match really solid stuff here, it got a good amount of time and everything clicked. Kane and Jericho start, and it was good with Kane getting the better of the two and tags in Taker so he can beat on Jericho, but he escapes and tags in Show and we get another AWESOME! Taker/Show interaction, with back-and-forth punches that had a ton of energy behind every blow. Back from a commercial and Jericho is taking it to Taker but that doesn’t last long and Taker hits “Old School” and tags in Kane to take over, Kane goes for a Chokeslam but Show blind tags in and hits him with a spear. Which leads to the heat-segment on Kane, which was really enjoyable Show’s body blows are great for soften up Kane for Jericho to apply rest-hold and get cocky. I loved the false tag after Kane counters the LionSault, then Show gets the tag in and Jericho goes down to the announce table and says “LOOK HE HE’S THROWING KANE ROUND, LIKE A RAG DOLL!” But that didn’t last long and Taker comes in for the how tag and that got the people into it as he hits all the normal signature moves. All hell would break loose and The Brothers of Destruction send Show into the opposite barricade. Taker rips the top of the announce table off and Kane retrieves The Big Show. They tease a double chokeslam to the Big Show but Jericho saves Show. Back inside the ring, the Brothers of Destruction surround Jericho. Kane delivers a chokeslam but gets dragged to the outside by the Big Show. Inside, Taker tries to Tombstone Jericho but Y2J escapes. Taker gives his attention to Show and tries a chokeslam. Show elbows out of it but Taker immediately boots Jericho to the ground. Show gets in the ring and Chokeslams Taker. Show attends to Jericho but Y2J takes Show out with the Codebreaker. Jericho goes outside and grabs the World Heavyweight Championship. Chris Jericho runs off with the belt and poses to end the show. **3/4

*Survivor Series 2009 - World Heavyweight Championship: The Undertaker vs. Big Show vs. Chris Jericho*
Well this is still disappointing, the first half of the match was pretty much Show/Jericho beating on Taker. Until Show gets taken out which leads us to a Taker/Jericho middle portion which was pretty much the same match we got on SD two weeks ago just shorter. Big Show makes a returns and then the match got somewhat more enjoyable, but it felt like they were holding back here for some reason and 13 minutes didn’t help. The match ends when Jericho goes for the Codebreaker on Show, but Show easily tosses him away and lays him with the KO punch. He then sets his sights on Taker but first he drops the straps and goozles he tries the Chokeslam but Taker drops down and catches him in Hell's Gate and Show taps. This didn’t have enough Taker/Show for my liking and it just felt like a SD TV main event match. But the best part was the “GO BACK TO TORONTO!” “I'M FROM WINNIPEG YOU IDIOT” line WIN! **1/2

*Smackdown 11/27/2009 – The Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho*
Just a shorten version of the first match they had together, Batista attacked Taker for the DQ. Batista goes back outside and grabs a chair. Jericho takes Taker out with the Codebreaker. Jericho exits and Batista enters to attack Taker with the chair. He beats Batista down for like, a minute with the chair. Batista poses over the Undertaker. **1/2

*Smackdown 12/04/2009 – The Undertaker Calls Out “The Animal” Batista*
The Undertaker comes down to the ring. Before he can make it to the ring, Dave Batista comes out of nowhere and takes Taker out with a chair shot, he hits him around 4/5 times then sends him into the steel steps and grabs the chair again and smashes Taker with the chair in the back and then attacks Taker's front. He sends Taker into the steps again, and then begins choking Taker with the chair. Batista then rolls Taker into the ring and gets the chair he started this with and nails Taker in the head with it. He then picks up the World Heavyweight Championship and tosses it back down. He picks up a somewhat concusses Undertaker and delivers a Spinebuster on top of a chair. Batista poses on top of the Undertaker with the World Heavyweight Championship, as The Undertaker stirs, so Batista strikes him in the head with the title and that how the show comes to an end. AWESOME!

*Smackdown 12/11/2009 – The Undertaker Appearance *
It was after the Batista/Mysterio match and Batista gets the chair and puts it around Rey's head. He climbs the turnbuckle but the Undertaker's Gong strikes. Arena turns dark and when the lights come back on, Taker is in the ring. Taker attacks Batista with a bunch of punches in the corner. He adds in some kicks and then gets the steel chair. Batista bails out of the ring and The Undertaker poses with the chair and staresdown Batista. 

*TLC 2009 – Chairs Match For the World Heavyweight Championship: The Undertaker vs. Batista*
This is probably the weakest Dave/Taker match they have ever had together. IDK if it was because Dave was playing the heel role here, but it just didn’t click. It also didn’t help that the stipulation for this is FUCKIN’ RETARDED! What is a chairs match? You grab a chair and use it, that’s it REALLY? That is the best you can come up with. Oh that’s not even the worse part; the worst part is the fuckin’ finish. Batista got a low blow behind the ref's back and a chair shot to win, Theodore Long comes out to say that chairs are legal, but low blows are not, and he's not going to let a title change hands that way. WHAT? Taker gives Batista a chairshot and finishes with the Tombstone. **1/4 - **1/2

*Raw 12/14/2009 – The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton*
This goes for around 3 minutes, UGH! But with those 3 minutes it totally ruled. Man What I would give to get this one more time. You know what else makes this hilarious, this this was a 3 hour slammy Raw but this is given 3 minutes. Taker’s entrance alone is 2 and half minutes long. The match starts with Orton going for the headlock early but Taker goes straight for the arm and tried “Old School” but Orton counters with the armdrag and begins to work the mid-section and head. But Taker comes back with punches and a huge clothesline in the corner. He hits Snake eyes and the big boot, then hits a legdrop but that gets a two count. He tries to chokeslam Orton but he counters and clothesline over Taker over the top but Taker lands on his feet. He then sets Orton up and delivers the Leg Drop on the ring apron. He turns around and sees Ted & Cody coming down and stops them in their tracks. As he turns around he walks right into a RKO on the floor AWESOME! And he ref begins to count them out, Orton rolls into the ring at the count on 9 to win. Post-MATCH: Taker double chokes Ted and Cody out of the ring and delivers a huge chokeslam to Orton. **

*Smackdown 12/25/2009 – World Heavyweight Championship: The Undertaker vs. Rey Mysterio*
This was a treat to watch, they worked the big-man vs. small-man. And what better way to tell that story with arguably the best big man worker EVER! And the greatest little man to ever do. The match got maybe 7 minutes and it was so enjoyable to watch. I can’t wait for the Rumble 2010 match now. The match starts with Rey using his quickness but Taker say fuck that man punches him in the face, and then just throws him out of the ring like he was nothing. He tries the ring apron leg drop but Rey slides into the ring and tries a dive but Taker catches him but Rey slips out of the top and pushes Taker right into the post. He gets back in and does the suicide drive through the middle rope and that takes Taker down as we go to a commercial. Back now and Mysterio is kicking the Undertaker in the leg, but Taker catches one of the kicks and delivers an AWESOME! Uppercut to Mysterio. They do this this spot which is pretty great when Mysterio leaps off the apron for a seated senton but the Undertaker catches him. Taker swings Mysterio's body against the outside barricade. Back in the ring and Taker slows it down with just pick apart Rey with all these different stuff like he would punch away at the head, then kick his mid-section then work on the arm, whatever he could do to punish him he would try. Taker tries the Last Ride but Mysterio slips out of it and kicks the Undertaker. He goes to the apron and launches himself off the ropes headfirst into the Undertaker. Mysterio goes back to the apron and comes down with a springboard legdrop. He pins Taker and gets a two count. Taker gets to his knees and Mysterio kicks him. Mysterio bounces off the ropes but Taker catches him by the throat. Rey then tires another springboard attack but the Undertaker meets him with a Big Boot. AWESOME! Taker then hits a chokeslam on Rey, but Batista enters the ring and hits the Undertaker for the DQ. Post-Match: Batista Spinebusters Undertaker, he then tries the Batista Bomb but Taker counters. Rey Mysterio launches with a springboard dropkick that sends Taker into 619 positions. Mysterio hits the 619 and prepares for the springboard splash. The Undertaker catches him by the throat but Batista spears the Undertaker. Batista tries to attack Rey Mysterio but Mysterio counters that into a drop toe hold followed up by a 619. Mysterio hits a seated senton on Batista and goes out of the ring. FUCK YEAH! ***1/4



Warning it has a shit load of words :$


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

^Oh shit I had no idea Taker/Rey happened in 2009. I'll read more of that later, but good stuff.



Obfuscation said:


> I'm not the only one who thinks Austin had a horrible 2002, right? b/c all I think that may have been on the good side was his matches vs Flair. Never seen the Big Show match, but I will soon.


He faced Angle in January I think, which people seem to really like. I don't remember ever watching it. 



Choke2Death said:


> Is there any Jericho vs Austin match worth watching? I read Jericho's second book a month ago and he bashed every match they had together including Vengeance, No Way Out and King of the Ring. (obviously excluding the tag match with HHH and Benoit.)


Raw 6/4/01
SmackDown 8/23/01

Both are damn good.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Christian Louboutin said:


> It only took me 4 days but here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is gonna be good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Rock/Trips from Judgment Day 2000 all the way through for the first time. Pretty good match, but the ending felt really rushed. Triple H was still up 5-3 with under 5 minutes left, and suddenly Rock comes to life and Triple H gets counted out after Rock hit the Pedigree on the announce table, and Shawn counted to 10 in about 8 seconds. 

I gave the match ***3/4, pretty much because I didn't care for the last 5 minutes. Of course DX and Faction came out and attacked Rock and Taker returned, and got Rock disqualified when hit Trips with a Tombstone. 

Trips/Austin from NWO 2001 is on tap for tonight, but not before taking a break for some Jimmy John's. :mark:

Also, I'm on the fence about including tag matches in my Triple H project, but I feel like Austin and Trips/Jericho and Benoit need to be included. Think I'll check out a few others as well, but I don't think I include many others.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> It only took me 4 days but here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am so going to read this all. I got the gist of what you wrote up and HOLY CRAP.

Worth it for Undertaker circa '09. His latter years on Smackdown have always filled me with :mark: Can't wait to see what you thought of the match vs Big Show. I remember it being just as good as everything from 2008.



zep81 said:


> Just tell me you like Brock/Taker.


Absolutely. One of my favorite HIAC's ever, naturally. :hayley3



ATF said:


> Matt Borne died - RIP to one of the GOAT heels.
> 
> In tribute to him, top 5 Doink matches?


Anything and everything he did during his tenure as Doink. I loved all of it - even the squashes.



Yeah1993 said:


> He faced Angle in January I think, which people seem to really like. I don't remember ever watching it.


I'll def scope it out. Unless you find it first. b/c you know, that's your thing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5PzFYa12Ds (from SmackDown 1/10/02)

That's what I do.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:dancingpenguin

^I love that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent writeup, Christian Louboutin. I still think Undertaker in 2009 was an atrocious character that ruined the momentum that Smackdown had in 09, and he had no business even coming close to winning a title. On top of that, he was a direct detriment to Punk, and we did not get to see a real WHC feud between Punk and Morrison. With that said, the Shelton Benjamin series was real good.

Jericho and Guerrero could have been the GOAT tag team if they teamed up together for a longer time in WCW.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Christian Louboutin said:


> It only took me 4 days but here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, really enjoyed reading through that. Great job, man. 

I don't think I remember the three Benjamin matches but I can't wait to watch them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Angle was good. Austin was showing life & effort the entire way through and an arguable "at his peak" Angle being his second in the match only helped things. It was en route to being better than their last match prior to this one back at Vengeance 2001. Which rings as slightly dull. This one was a bit shorter so it was able to capture similar elements and keep it more interesting as a whole. Only drawback was the non-finish to feed the Royal Rumble. With a clean ending or at least an ending with a winner this would have been "ranked" higher.

*****

It's too bad I nearly tainted this good sight of Austin by watching Austin vs Big Show from Insurrextion '02 following it. My goodness that match was a steaming pile of bantha poo-doo.

---------------

I remember two of the Undertaker vs Shelton matches very well. I always preferred their nine minute sprint - which was their second match - the most. Third was short. That's all I remember about it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of Insurrextion '02, am I the only one who recognizes the greatness of Trips vs Taker that night around here? Boy, that match is quite underrated imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Just watched Rock/Trips from Judgment Day 2000 all the way through for the first time. Pretty good match, but the ending felt really rushed. Triple H was still up 5-3 with under 5 minutes left, and suddenly Rock comes to life and Triple H gets counted out after Rock hit the Pedigree on the announce table, and Shawn counted to 10 in about 8 seconds.
> 
> I gave the match ***3/4, pretty much because I didn't care for the last 5 minutes. Of course DX and Faction came out and attacked Rock and Taker returned, and got Rock disqualified when hit Trips with a Tombstone.
> 
> ...


Definitely include Austin/HHH vs Jericho/Benoit - one of the best Raw matches ever. I can't recall exactly what era of matches you said you would be watching but there's definitely some Evolution tags worth checking out. 8-man with Evolution vs HBK/Benoit/Shelton/Foley from Raw 12/4/2004 is very good especially, and there's quite a few more from 2004 that are all *****+ (well IMO anyway.) Also, DX + Radicalz vs Rock/Cactus/Too Cool from Raw 7/2/2000 is amazing. Everyone should watch it if they haven't seen it, fantastic attitude era Raw main event with a very hot crowd too.



ATF said:


> Speaking of Insurrextion '02, am I the only one who recognizes the greatness of Trips vs Taker that night around here? Boy, that match is quite underrated imo.


Haven't seen that in years, might watch it today to refresh my memory.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

*CM Punk vs The Rock
Royal Rumble 2013

***1/2*


Not a bad match. Punk sells the leg well, there's lots of energy and the crowd is hot, popping like popcorn in a furnace .


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Forever Unchained said:


> *CM Punk vs The Rock
> Royal Rumble 2013
> 
> ***1/2*
> ...


Couldn't disagree more, there's not many things i'll fight to the death but this is one.

This match sucks. resthold after resthold, absolutely no structure to the match at all. the finish is one of the most moronic things WWE has ever done and that's saying a lot. Cole's screaming at the referee pierces through my head everytime. Honestly i was so pumped for this match back in January but it let me down in every department. Their EC match is a tad better because it has a bit of structure (Punk trying to get Rock DQ'd) but it's still a bit of a mess.

*DUD*


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

GOING TO WRESTLEMANIA! FUCK YEAH!

There better be a match that Dave Meltzer rates ****1/4 or higher or its gonna be a waste of time and money (alot of money)


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Brye said:


> Wow, really enjoyed reading through that. Great job, man.
> 
> I don't think I remember the three Benjamin matches but I can't wait to watch them.


It's the best Shelton has looked since 2006



Obfuscation said:


> I am so going to read this all. I got the gist of what you wrote up and HOLY CRAP.
> 
> Worth it for Undertaker circa '09. His latter years on Smackdown have always filled me with :mark: Can't wait to see what you thought of the match vs Big Show. I remember it being just as good as everything from 2008.


Big Show match was great, they work together really good.



Yeah1993 said:


> ^Oh shit I had no idea Taker/Rey happened in 2009. I'll read more of that later, but good stuff.


It's a real good short TV gem.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Excellent writeup, Christian Louboutin. I still think Undertaker in 2009 was an atrocious character that ruined the momentum that Smackdown had in 09, and he had no business even coming close to winning a title. On top of that, he was a direct detriment to Punk, and we did not get to see a real WHC feud between Punk and Morrison. With that said, the Shelton Benjamin series was real good.


Yeah, I wan't a fan of the world title win, but it did give us some real good matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> Couldn't disagree more, there's not many things i'll fight to the death but this is one.
> 
> This match sucks. resthold after resthold, absolutely no structure to the match at all. the finish is one of the most moronic things WWE has ever done and that's saying a lot. Cole's screaming at the referee pierces through my head everytime. Honestly i was so pumped for this match back in January but it let me down in every department. Their EC match is a tad better because it has a bit of structure (Punk trying to get Rock DQ'd) but it's still a bit of a mess.
> 
> *DUD*


Couldn'd agree more, i was really pumped for the match since the ending of Raw 1000, i thought "Yeah, this should be good". All the lights out shit i hated too, and the match was really bad IMO, as you say the EC match is a tad better constructed, but both really disappointing, Shame really, esp for Punk.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> GOING TO WRESTLEMANIA! FUCK YEAH!
> 
> There better be a match that Dave Meltzer rates ****1/4 or higher or its gonna be a waste of time and money (alot of money)


Really? So what you're telling us is that Dave Meltzer and his star ratings is what's going to determine how much fun you're going to have at a WrestleMania?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Still holds up beautifully. SOMEONE ELSE PLEASE WATCH THIS AND TELL ME HOW GREAT IT IS.


I actually watched this earlier today.

_While I won't tout this as critically brilliant, I think it offers a great example against the detraction of hardcore matches as "garbage wrestling". Terry Funk is on a complete other level here, and delivers such an amazing performance in getting not only his student over but the threat of the match, as well. The threat of the exploding barbed-wire is sold beautifully in how Onita would suffer through pain and take Funk's vicious offence willingly as opposed to suffering what was sold as a fate worse than death. I found it quite interesting that early on, despite the latter teases, Onita would rush to the ropes as a means to break Funk's control and retreat to "safer ground" only then to realise the dangerous outcome of such a hasty decision. Perhaps this is what set in Onita's absolute no-chances taken on hitting those ropes again.

I did find the early use of the pile-driver to be a bit ineffectual in the greater outcome but I can understand it as a prop in putting over the danger of the match as a greater expense on the body. Still, I didn't find Onita to be terribly efficient across the board, in terms of a wrestling standpoint, here. Falling through the exploding barbed-wire seemingly came too easy, much like the pile-driver. Still, his facials were good even if he was completely outclassed by Funk. Because, OH BOY, was Funk phenomenal. During his control he kept things minimal yet exciting, delivering an array of emotions that typify why he's the man. As soon as he hit the barbed-wire face first, causing the explosion to disorientate and almost blind him, he became the greatest thing walking the planet at that moment. When the 5-minute C4 timer started, and the siren blasted over the announcer telling the crowd about the wrestler's impending deaths, there was no way Terry Funk would allow his temporary disabilities to hinder him and he just came out swinging wildly hoping Onita would be in front of him. Surmount this with Onita, fresh off the elation of beating his "teacher", slapping Funk in the hopes of reviving him in time before the bombs go off and you're served a match oozing with beauty and charisma that traps you from the first moment._

TERRY FUNK/5​
I honestly need to find their second match, if it ever happened. It was teased at the end of the video, nontheless, with Funk knocking out Onita despite the respect shown.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Isotopes said:


> Really? So what you're telling us is that Dave Meltzer and his star ratings is what's going to determine how much fun you're going to have at a WrestleMania?


I'm pretty sure it was just a joke...

------------------

Watched this today:

*Intercontinental Championship
*Rob Van Dam (c) vs. Chris Jericho - *** 1/2
_RAW 9/16/2002_

This was all kinds of fun. Van Dam's in total control for the first several minutes until Jericho kicks the ref into the ropes to knock RVD off and get the upperhand. Smart psychology in working on Rob's back to set up for the walls of Jericho. The last 5 minutes are crazy. Rob gets his second wind and just starts kicking the shit out of Jericho until he jumps on the top rope to go for the 5-star, but Tripe H runs down the ramp so Van Dam does this HUGE dive all the way out the beginning of the steel ramp. Looked like it hurt both guys. This was of course a week or two before their World Title match at Unforgiven, hence why he was coming out. Van Dam's able to fend off both Triple H & Jericho for a while until he's finally caught in the walls and forced to tap as Triple H is grinning at ringside. Great match that's a total blast to watch. I'd go as far as to say this is better than Unforgiven '01 match for the Hardcore Title.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Couldn't disagree more, there's not many things i'll fight to the death but this is one.
> 
> This match sucks. resthold after resthold, absolutely no structure to the match at all. the finish is one of the most moronic things WWE has ever done and that's saying a lot. Cole's screaming at the referee pierces through my head everytime. Honestly i was so pumped for this match back in January but it let me down in every department. Their EC match is a tad better because it has a bit of structure (Punk trying to get Rock DQ'd) but it's still a bit of a mess.
> 
> *DUD*


LMAO. I think the EC match was actually worse. Other than the small story added with the DQ stipulation, _that_ match was exactly what everyone describes the RR one as. A bunch of headlocks and pretty much a squash as Punk was in control for like 15 minutes straight. It did not have a stupid restart, though, so that's one thing it has over RR.



Christian Louboutin said:


> It only took me 4 days but here it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gonna have to watch that 8 man tag before Hell in a Cell! Excellent write up.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> GOING TO WRESTLEMANIA! FUCK YEAH!
> 
> There better be a match that Dave Meltzer rates ****1/4 or higher or its gonna be a waste of time and money (alot of money)


:lmao:lmao:lmao :evil:


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

I have both TLC IV & TLC 2012 at *****. Oh, and TLC 2012 is definite MOTY, completely demolishes everything, even those by the name of Brock/Cena, Punk/Bryan, Punk/Cena etc. The truth has been spoken. 

EDIT: Meant had both at *****


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Forever Unchained said:


> *CM Punk vs The Rock
> Royal Rumble 2013
> 
> ***1/2*
> ...


I agree that its not as bad as people love to claim aka DUD but its nothing to write home about. There really wasn't any structure as Ever Wolf said. Good crowd, and big fight feel but terrible ending and wasn't evenly leveled between Punk & Rock. Punk had a lot of control(which I guess makes him look good) However, I don't think the match sucks, just not that great. So I'd put it at ***. 

EC had a lesser crowd, and the novelty of the match up had worn off but it was a better structured match with a story behind it. Plus, both men had a better amount of offense time. Punk still controlled most of it but at least Rock did more in this match than he did at RR. I have to disagree with Choke2Death that this part of the two matches reversed, especially having seen these two matches a few weeks ago. Its really better than RR to me. However, still had a silly ending. I think the problem was WWE trying to keep Punk looking somewhat strong so they wanted to come up with controversial endings but failed at it. This gets *** 1/2 from me.

Regardless, all of Rock's recent single matches honestly needed to have some time cuts, better structure here and there, and they all would have turned out decent to good tbh. Would have loved a 01-03 ish Rock squaring off with Punk/Cena etc. though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FFS, im still to watch any of fucking TLC 2012 :argh: , ill probably just wait now and buy the PPV down the line...


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Individualistic said:


> I have both TLC IV & TLC 2012 at *****. Oh, and TLC 2012 is definite MOTY, completely demolishes everything, even those by the name of Brock/Cena, Punk/Bryan, Punk/Cena etc. The *opinion* has been spoken.


TLC IV is not even a great match much less a classic. Very forgettable. TLC 2012 was incredible.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> TLC IV is not even a great match much less a classic. Very forgettable. TLC 2012 was incredible.


You replace and highlight the word of Truth with Opinion, but then detest the matter of taste when classifying the match of TLCIV as a 5 star one. Oh, the humanity. fpalm


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ok idk if its my personal vendatta with hhh but am I the only one who thinks flair/orton cage > flair/hhh cage


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm surprised my current distain for HHH hasn't clouded my judgment of his past matches, because i do fucking LOVE the HHH/Flair cage match, one of my favorite matches in WWE full stop, perfectly told.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> .
> 
> Regardless, all of Rock's recent single matches honestly needed to have some time cuts, better structure here and there, and they all would have turned out decent to good tbh. Would have loved a 01-03 ish Rock squaring off with Punk/Cena etc. though.


 I agree with this. Rock's longest single match in his career was with Cena at WM 28 (30 minutes and 33 seconds) which is strange considering he never competed in many half and hour matches in his prime.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ok idk if its my personal vendatta with hhh but am I the only one who thinks flair/orton cage > flair/hhh cage


I'd still have HHH/Flair above Flair/Orton. Both HHH/Flair matches during that feud are awesome IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched that huge Legacy & CM Punk vs Undertaker, John Cena & DX tag match from Smackdown in 2009. Pretty awesome and reminiscent of the huge tag matches Orton participated in throughout 2004 and 2006-07. ★★★½ and huge chance it enters the list.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Armageddon 2008

Rey/Punk - ***3/4
Batista/Orton - ***
Cena/Jericho - ***1/2
Edge/HHH/Jeff - ****


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Individualistic said:


> You replace and highlight the word of Truth with Opinion, but then detest the matter of taste when classifying the match of TLCIV as a 5 star one. Oh, the humanity. fpalm


pardon me for giving my opinion while disagreeing with your "fact" or "opinion".


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> I agree with this. Rock's longest single match in his career was with Cena at WM 28 (30 minutes and 33 seconds) which is strange considering he never competed in many half and hour matches in his prime.


Iron Man with Triple H at JD 2000, if that counts. It should, IMO.

Resuming 2001 Triple H now. Man, he was on fucking fire at this time. His match with Kurt at the Royal Rumble is ****, even with that cluster fuck ending, which led to his ****3/4 classic with Austin at NWO. I don't care for the WM 17 match with Taker, but he followed up that with his GOAT Power Trip run. 

Also, thanks AHB for recommending the Evolution tags. May take me a bit to get to them, but I'll check them out.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

*Backlash 2004: Cactus Jack vs. Randy Orton. Intercontinental Championship.* In deciding what to watch, I sought matches that I had seen only once, when they originally aired. Almost immediately, I recalled this one in particular, likely due to the recent superb match Randy had on Raw with Daniel Bryan. I additionally recalled how barbaric, gruesome, and unsettling the Foley and Orton encounter was to digest for some.

When I first watched this, I remember being surrounded by gossiping family members - an aunt and my mother - all of whom decided to indulge in daily gossip at the most inopportune time. Jim Ross' commentating skills were at an unparalleled high around this time, being second to none, and the experience of watching my first Hardcore/Street Fight/Falls Count At Your Mother's House/No Disqualification match seemed to be taking an unpleasant turn.

In an attempt to remedy my discomfort, feeling bold and daring, I dashed to the front of the TV and raised the volume. I wasn't about to watch this match accompanied by unneeded verbal distractions. Fuck outta here.

Much to my dismay, there were plenty of belts around for my mother to disciplinarily use if I dared raise the volume again. It came down to the dilemma of either testing her or continuing to watch it amid generally mindless chatter. It was my aunt's room, so there was no way I was going to tell both of them where the exit was.

Thankfully, after about 6 minutes, the bloodbath that was this bout was able to drive both of them away, and I was then able to watch the rest of this terrific match the way it was supposed to be done from the get go - by letting the commentating duo of Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler do all the gossiping.

The chemistry in this encounter was evident from the start. The pace flowed very nicely, and at no given point in this match did it feel like the created dynamic was ready to stagnate. A career highlight, this match from the only Backlash held in Canada was able to demonstrate that Randy was just about ready to be called World Heavyweight Champion, even if it was for an unflattering 4 weeks.

★★★★½


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Here is a fun 8 man tag from the Raw before Backlash 2001 between Edge/Christian/Austin/Trips and Kane/Taker/Hardys. Like, REALLY fun.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Iron Man with Triple H at JD 2000, if that counts. It should, IMO.
> 
> Resuming 2001 Triple H now. Man, he was on fucking fire at this time. His match with Kurt at the Royal Rumble is ****, even with that cluster fuck ending, which led to his ****3/4 classic with Austin at NWO. I don't care for the WM 17 match with Taker, but he followed up that with his GOAT Power Trip run.
> 
> Also, thanks AHB for recommending the Evolution tags. May take me a bit to get to them, but I'll check them out.


No problem man, I've totally forgotten - what's the actual project you're doing? Obviously it's HHH but I can't recall if if was a certain year or whatnot. Also, why don't you care for the WM17 match with Taker? It's not a widely-loved match or anything and obviously I've got no problem with your opinion, just interested in your thoughts on it. Good to see big love for the match with Kurt at the Rumble, I've always liked that and that match never gets talked about.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

*Night of Champions 2012*

Fatal Four-Way - *
Team Hell No/Kofi & R-Truth - **
Cesaro/Ryder - **
Orton/Ziggler - ***1/2
Sheamus/Del Rio - ***
Cena/Punk - ****

Fun show.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> No problem man, I've totally forgotten - what's the actual project you're doing? Obviously it's HHH but I can't recall if if was a certain year or whatnot. Also, why don't you care for the WM17 match with Taker? It's not a widely-loved match or anything and obviously I've got no problem with your opinion, just interested in your thoughts on it. Good to see big love for the match with Kurt at the Rumble, I've always liked that and that match never gets talked about.


Top 50 Trips matches. 

I just can't get on board with the 17 match. Something about it just didn't click for me. The two guys brawl around, Mike Chioda dies for 12 minutes while they brawl into the crowd, Trips gets some chair shots in (maybe just one, I forget) on that production mini-tower, Taker chokeslams Trips off the mini-tower onto some random foam (which they show). They get back to the ring, and the finish doesn't bother me so much. Triple H using the sledgehammer to get a close nearfall and breaking the hammer over Taker was cool, I guess. 

There could be an argument that Trips/Taker at 17 was just a shorter version (with a different ending of course) of Rock/Austin on the same show. 

Another unpopular opinion: After watching the Power Trip vs Benoit/Jericho for the Tag Titles on 5/21/2001, I can't give it more than ****1/4. Really fun match, great crowd (of course), but I don't see where it's 5 stars, or almost 5. Granted I'm not the best judge of "great wrestling", but this was an above average Attitude Era main event tag.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling, as long as it's above 4 stars, I think we all good. I don't give it 5 myself although it has a big chance should I ever decide to expand on my ★★★★★ matches.

And definitely get going with the Evolution tag matches from 2004. The best one doesn't involve HHH, though. But at least he is part of that awesome 8 man tag before Backlash when they face Benoit, Foley, HBK and Shelton.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That's cool, I have the Power Trip/BenoitJericho tag at *****1/2*. I've seen a few full fives for it but I can't ever see me going that high on it. Obviously a great match, perhaps some people give it that extra love because of HEROIC TRIPS.

:jpl


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, I've seen folks around here give it the full 5, but I wasn't anywhere close. 

That pretty much wrapped up 2001 Trips, now jumping up to the 2004 set with Benoit (Vengeance and the Iron Man Match on Raw). THEN I'll look up the 8 man tags.

Well, maybe I'll throw in the Eugene matches before the tags. I'll get to them sometime.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Sounds good. The Vengeance and Iron Man matches are good but missed opportunities for me. Damn Eugene interferences ruin them. Got them both at ****1/2 *but they would have been higher without the poor endings.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another tag match that gets overlooked but I recommend is Evolution (HHH, Orton, Batista) vs Tajiri, Shelton and Edge from May 3.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The ending to the Iron Man match :lmao Eugene with a Stunner :lmao Then the Rock Bottom :lmao 

Don't know much I can believe Eugene taking out Evolution by himself.

Edit: DAMN that 6 man that C2D recommended is a must see. Awesome fucking match. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk...lton-benjamin-raw-5-3-2004_sport#.Uc-eqTBBnbg


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Edge/Shelton/Tajiri vs Evolution sounds fucking awesome. Thanks for the link!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Speaking of Insurrextion '02, am I the only one who recognizes the greatness of Trips vs Taker that night around here? Boy, that match is quite underrated imo.


Going to watch it later tonight. Took a brief gander at it two days ago and it appeared to be pretty awful though. Hated the utterly anti-climatic/random finish with the Pedigree just sort of happening after the punches stopped. That was only a skim through and maybe the rest of the match pans out better. With how KOTR '02 went...I'm not thinking so much.



Ever Wolf said:


> Couldn't disagree more, there's not many things i'll fight to the death but this is one.
> 
> This match sucks. resthold after resthold, absolutely no structure to the match at all. the finish is one of the most moronic things WWE has ever done and that's saying a lot. Cole's screaming at the referee pierces through my head everytime. Honestly i was so pumped for this match back in January but it let me down in every department. Their EC match is a tad better because it has a bit of structure (Punk trying to get Rock DQ'd) but it's still a bit of a mess.
> 
> *DUD*


(Y)

No more words can describe how terrible it is.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Quick question for you all, if any of you guys have long lists with a shit ton of matches on them (doesn't have to be just WWE) I would greatly appreciate if you message me, I need some for an upcoming project I've had on the back burner for a while


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I AM FUCKING WRECKED GUYS.

I NEED A MATCH TO REVIEW. CURSE JAGER & MARY JANE.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im hungover guys i need something to watch


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

KENNY & BEAST

THIS MATCH;


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I should totally watch that right now. Been far, far too long.

You know what match from 2002 didn't hold up for me? Then again, I was never a big fan of it to begin with...

WWE Tag Team Championship finals from No Mercy. It's pretty solid with the whole continuous nutty pacing thing, but eh. Nothing about it exactly clicked for me. I liked the Judgment Day callbacks with Edge & Angle in the finish. A nice touch. Rest was all there with no clear story behind it other than four guys pumping through a frantic pace until one team eventually wins. Was pretty void of anything annoying that could pop up _(like Benoit vs Angle from Unforgiven)_ & zooms on by, although I wasn't hooked in. Not by a long shot. Matches need more than just fancy moves. Entertaining? Sure, why not. Was it great to the point where I'll want to sing the praises of it online, in person, to random people on the streets? Nope. Hoping the 2/3 falls is much stronger.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't believe it took me this long to understand the greatness of Volk Han. Can this man do anything wrong? Thank you guys for showing me him.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

im watching the elimination chamber from 2002


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rob Van Dam rules the match up till he's eliminated.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Fuck, I hate EC 1, such a drag-fest. ***, meh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only portion it drags for me is when Trips & Jericho are beating down Michaels. Other than that, I'm a fan.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'll take a page out of Obfus's book and say subjectivity is a fine argument dismisser.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well then, the 2/3 falls rematch between Angle & Benoit vs Edge & Mysterio on 11/7/02 was a _very tiny_ bit better than No Mercy. Only thanks to the first fall. Still nothing close to being a "great" match. First fall was pretty good with the hot action never quite stopping. I liked that; kicking it off hot without throwing too much away in the first six minutes. Worked out well.

Second fall begin, it was short, again, more stuff where it served its purpose and made all four men look swell in the fray. The way the second fall finished up however was the downward spiral portion of the match for it being anything too strong: Benoit blasts Edge with the belt, k. He's "knocked out"/very dizzy, yada yada yada. Angle applies the ankle lock instead of going for the pin. Why? Edge taps out. Ok, that's a tad dumb. Don't know why a pinfall or an Angle Slam ----> pinfall wasn't the follow up portion there. 

Third fall begins and I got to tell ya, the Angle & Benoit beatdown on the faces begin and I started to lose interest while they're doing it. Things happen, the heels control the tempo, it's just like No Mercy now. Hot tag to Mysterio; it's ok too. Mysterio eventually pins Kurt with a sloppy roll up and the ref notices Kurt's hand was on the rope following the three count. So he feels compelled enough to restart the third fall. Well, this does absolutely nothing for me. Meh reason on such a meh thing. Ref you counted the three before you saw Angle's hand. Why care? Angle could have slipped it on following the three for all you know. Restart begins, Mysterio looks to be cooking but gets cut off soon after and it's back to the bleh heel beatdown again. Edge gets a hot tag and it kind of rules. Too bad it didn't last very long. Edge in '02 ruled. Match ends soon after with the faces still prevailing thus making the restart seemingly more pointless than it already was as all it did was extend the match by about five minutes. Could have done without the final five minutes pardon Edge's hot tag which only lasted about the final minute. 

Match started off well, then once the third fall began I lost a deep amount of interest in what they were trying to put over. I literally watched Edge & Mysterio vs Brock Lesnar & Tajiri from 10/10/02 right before it and it was a MUCH more complete and all around stronger tag team match than this. 2/3 Falls here was solid at best. I better watch more from Benoit in '02 right now. Everything I've seen so far hasn't bee worth seeing in the slightest.

***3/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

DVD Easter Egg List now that Silvervision has gone:



Spoiler: DVD Easter Eggs



CM Punk: Best in the World Blu-ray

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Baton
Access by:	Left from Chapter 16 - The Man

Easter Egg:	Valentine's Day
Access by:	Right from SF20 - CMP+KKvCR+TD

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Black Maria
Access by:	Right from BRE 19 - The Bus Tour

CM Punk: Best in the World DVD

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Baton
Access by:	Matches Page 3 - Press Right twice from 'The Man' chapter point = Baton

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Valentine's Day
Access by:	Matches Page 02, Chapter 01: CM Punk & Kofi Kingston vs. Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase - Double press Right = Easter Egg: Valentines Day

(back to top)

Big Show: A Giants World

Disc 3
Easter Egg:	The End of Jeri-Show
Access by:	Two left clicks from third button on Chapters Page 2 - "Hell in a Cell - 4th October, 2009"

(back to top)

WrestleFest '88 & '90

Disc 2 - WrestleFest '90
Easter Egg:	Mattel Ring Advert
Access by:	On Chapters Page 1 - 2 left clicks from "Brutus The Barber Beefcake vs. Rick The Model Martel"

Easter Egg:	Mattel Action Figures Advert
Access by:	On Chapters Page 3 - 2 right clicks from "Tag-Team Match The Ultimate Warrior & Jake The Snake Roberts vs. Akeem & Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase"

(back to top)

Ricky Steamboat: The Life Story of the Dragon

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Ricky Steamboat Anti-Drug PSA
Access by:	Press right twice on Wrestlemania III Chapters page 1

(back to top)

Undertaker's Deadliest Matches

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Kama Mustafa Story
Access by:	Press left twice from SummerSlam August 27, 1995 on Chapters page 1

Easter Egg: King Mabel Story
Access by:	Press left twice from In Your House December 17, 1995 on Chapters page 1

(back to top)

Hart & Soul: The Hart Family Anthology

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Owen Slammy Acceptance Speech
Access by:	Press right twice from Owen The Prankster on Special Features Menu

(back to top)

Best of Raw 2009

Disc 1
Easter Egg: HHH & Batista Dance
Access by: Press left twice from April Highlights on Chapter Menu 2

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Fans Package
Access by:	Press left twice from RAW Celebrity Guest Hosts on Chapter Menu 2

Disc 3
Easter Egg: DX Chop
Access by:	Press left twice from Batista vs. Randy Orton on Chapter Menu 1

(back to top)

Jeff Hardy: My Life, My Rules

Disc 1
Easter Egg: These Boots Were Made For... Extreme Rules
Access by:	Go to "Brother vs. Brother" and click left 2 times.

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Art Critic - Raw, September 11 2006
Access by:	Go to "Raw, October 2, 2006" and click left 2 times.

Easter Egg: And the Slammy Goes To... - Raw, December 8, 2008
Access by:	Go to "Raw, January 14, 2008" and click left 2 times.

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Jeff Interrupts The Undertaker - SmackDown!, November 14 2008
Access by:	Go to "SmackDown! 14 November, 2008" and click left 2 times.

(back to top)

The Greatest Stars of the 90s

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Sunny PSA
Access by:	Go to Chapter Slide 1: Highlight Women of the 90s and click right 2 times.

Easter Egg: Road Warrior Animal tells a Stone Cold story
Access by:	Go to Chapter Slide 3: Highlight Stone Cold Steve Austin and click right 2 times.

(back to top)

The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Terry Funk Talks about Wrestling Hulk Hogan
Access by: Highlight SNME 4 January, 1986 WWE Championship Match Hulk Hogan vs. Terry Funk and click left two times

Easter Egg: Paul Orndorff Chili Dog Story
Access by: Highlight SNME 3 January, 1987 Steel Cage Match Hulk Hogan vs. Mr Wonderful Paul Orndorff and click left two times

(back to top)

Starrcade: The Essential Collection

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Dusty Rhodes Promo For Starrcade 83
Access by:	Three right clicks from Thanksgiving Tradition chapter point

Easter Egg: Ric Flair on the Wall of Fame
Access by: Three right clicks from A Flare For The Gold chapter point

(back to top)

The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Kanes Got Two Words For Ya!
Access by: Two right-clicks from Raw 5/4/99 WWE Tag Team Championship Match chapter point

Easter Egg: Jericho Burns Kane
Access by: Two left-clicks from Armageddon 10/12/00 Last Man Standing Match chapter point

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Kane And Shane Are Tight
Access by: Three right-clicks from Sending Him To Hell chapter point

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Chestnut Roasting In Hell
Access by: Highlight SmackDown 22/12/06 Undertaker & Kane vs. King Booker & Finlay and left click, right click, left click and right click

Easter Egg: Kane And Litas Awkward Reunion
Access by: Three right-clicks from Pain and Torture chapter point

(back to top)

Viva La Raza! The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Eddie begs Chyna for Forgiveness
Access by:	four right clicks from Chris Jericho- Latino Heat chapter point

Easter Egg: Eddie & Chavo before a Match
Access by:	four left clicks from Chavo Guerrero- Los Guerreros chapter point

(back to top)

The History of the Intercontinental Championship

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	WWE Superstars discuss the Intercontinental Championship (Confidential, October 19th 2002)
Access by:	two left clicks from The Inaugural Champion

(back to top)

The Life and Times of Mr. Perfect

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Curt AWA Interview mentions Wade Boggs
Access by:	two left clicks from Mr. Perfect chapter point

Easter Egg:	Old Man Mask
Access by:	one left click and two right clicks from The Prankster chapter point

Easter Egg:	Thunder, 1st July 1999 Rap Is Crap Live Performance
Access by:	two right clicks from Rap Is Crap music video extra

Easter Egg:	Chris Jericho story- smoke bomb
Access by:	two right clicks from Curt Loved Karaoke extra

Easter Egg:	Joey Styles- Stamford High
Access by:	two left clicks from Basketball Vignette, 15th October 1988 extra

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Smashing the WWE Championship Belt
Access by:	one right click and two left clicks from Hulk Hogan match

(back to top)

Nature Boy Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Boarding School Heaven
Access by:	two left clicks from beginnings

Easter Egg:	George Woodin
Access by:	two left clicks from plane crash

(back to top)

Twist of Fate: The Matt and Jeff Hardy Story

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Matts feud with the Undertaker
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Mattitude

Easter Egg:	Toast to the Core Group
Access by:	two left clicks from extras chapter point Tag Team Title Match: The Hardy Boyz vs. The Serial Thrillaz

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Virusters vs. Aluminummies
Access by:	two right clicks from chapter point Imagination

Easter Egg:	Jeff bulldozes his studio
Access by:	two left clicks from extras chapter point Singles Release

(back to top)

Triple H: King of Kings

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Hunter Hearst Helmsley Vignette
Access by:	two left clicks from chapter point Raw 22nd May 1995 Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. John Crystal

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	We Can Re-Build Him Vignette
Access by:	two left clicks from chapter point Whats Left to Accomplish?

(back to top)

WWE Live in the UK: October 2007

Disc 2
Easter Egg: UK fan comments
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point, The Miz vs. John Morrison

(back to top)

The Triumph & Tragedy of World Class Championship Wrestling

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Fritz on TV
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Fritz Von Erich

Easter Egg: Why Kevin wrestles barefoot
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point The Boys

Easter Egg: WCCW Logo
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Innovative Television

Easter Egg: How WCCW got its name
Access by: two right clicks from chapter point Young Superstars

Easter Egg: Garvin on being Davids Servant
Access by: two right clicks from extras chapter point David Von Erich Valet for the Day

(back to top)

Shawn Michaels Story: Heartbreak and Triumph

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Ambidextrous
Access by: Two left clicks from chapter point "Growing Up"

Easter Egg: All Star Wrestling- March 1986- Ken Resnick Interviews The Midnight Rockers
Access by: Two left clicks from chapter point "Midnight Rockers"

Easter Egg: WrestleMania X- Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon
Access by: Two left clicks from chapter point "The Ladder Match"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Backflip
Access by: Two right clicks & one left click from chapter point "WCCW 11/1/85 Shawn Michaels vs. Billy Jack Haynes"

Easter Egg: Wrestling The Rockers at MSG
Access by: Three left clicks from chapter point "MSG- 23/1/89 The Rockers vs. The Brainbusters"

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Rockers Reunion
Access by: Two right clicks from chapter point "14/3/05 The Rockers vs. La Resistance"

(back to top)

John Cena: My Life

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Cena's Springfield Football Helmet
Access by: Two right-clicks from chapter point "Military Coin Collection"

Easter Egg: Cena Interrupts Interview
Access by: Two right-clicks from chapter point "WrestleMania 21- John Cena/JBL WrestleMania Goes Hollywood Promo"

(back to top)

Live in Italy

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Superstars in Milan
Access by: two left clicks from Raw Chapter Point, WWE Diva Fashion Show

WrestleMania 23

Disc 2
Easter Egg: John Cena promo, Raw 26th March 2007
Access by: two left clicks from WrestleMania 23 Countdown: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels

(back to top)

Ric Flair and the Four Horsemen

Disc 1:
Easter Egg: Dusty Rhodes- Brainbusters
Access by: 2 left clicks from Arn and Tully leave chapter point

Easter Egg: Ric Flair turns on Sting
Access by: 2 left clicks from The Four Horsemen- 1996 chapter point

Easter Egg: Ric Flair Promo
Access by: 2 left clicks from Ric Flair The Wildest Night in the business button, in extras

Easter Egg: Tully Blanchard, Ric Flair, JJ Dillon Promo
Access by: 2 left clicks from The Four Horsemen Interviews button, in extras

Disc 2:
Easter Egg: JJ Talks About 40K Ring
Access by: 2 left clicks from J.J. Dillons Ring, in extras

(back to top)

Mick Foley- Greatest Hits and Misses- The Hardcore Edition

Disc 1:
Easter Egg: Mick jumping off roof of house
Access by: 2 right clicks from Mick & Les Thornton vs. British Bulldogs chapter button.

Disc 2:
Easter Egg: Dude Love Entrance Video
Access by: 2 left clicks from Stone Cold Steve Austin match

Easter Egg: DX Have A Bad Day video
Access by: 1 Right + 1 Left click from Triple H match.

Bonus Disc:
Easter Egg: Hardcore match vs. Edge promo
Access by: 2 Right clicks from WrestleMania Edge match chapter button

Easter Egg: One Night Stand (Mick, Edge & Lita vs. Funk, Dreamer & Beulah) promo
Access by: 2 Left clicks from Chapter button of the same match.

Easter Egg: Mick Foley shows his scar
Access by: 1 Left + 1 Right click from Ric Flair match chapter button.

(back to top)

The New and Improved DX

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Big Dick Johnson
Access by: 2 right clicks from Raw 11/6/056 DX gets revenge on Eric Bischoff

(back to top)

Roddy Piper: Born To Controversy

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Sheeps wool and the dog collar
Access by: Go to chapters; left click twice from Starrcade 1983

(back to top)

McMahon

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Outtakes - McMahon training with a chicken - training vignettes
Access by:	Go to Extras; left click twice from 'VKM training package'

Easter Egg:	Triple H's version of Big Show's air mattress
Access by:	Go to Extras; left click twice from 'Sleeping Giant'

(back to top)

The American Dream: The Dusty Rhodes Story

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Mike Graham talks about meeting Dusty Rhodes
Access by:	Go to Chapters page 1; left click twice from 'Texas Outlaws'

Disc 3
Easter Egg:	Ted DiBiase talks about how Virgil got his name
Access by: Go to Extras page 1; left click twice from 'Dusty & Dustin Rhodes vs. Ted DiBiase & Virgil'

(back to top)

World's Greatest Wrestling Managers

Easter Egg:	Sensational Sherri sings
Access by:	Go to Chapters menu page 2; left click twice from 'Sensational Sherri'

(back to top)

Divas Do New York - The Lingerie Edition

Easter Egg:	Sharmell's final answer
Access by: Go to Chapters menu; left click twice from "Sharmell"

Easter Egg:	Kane the dog
Access by: Go to Chapters menu; left click twice from "Melina"

Easter Egg:	Mae Young gives Eric a Bronco Buster
Access by: Go to Main menu; down click twice from "play"

(back to top)

ECW - The Most Extreme Matches

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Balls takes a flaming table in Belmar
Access by: Go to Extras menu; right click twice from "Extreme Measures: The Flaming Table"

(back to top)

Bret Hitman Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Kiwis
Access by: Go to Chapters Menu; left click twice from "Stampede Wrestling"

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Real matches
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice from "Ricky Steamboat" match

Easter Egg:	Hitman
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice from "Hart Foundation vs Rockers" match

Easter Egg:	Best there is
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice from "British Bulldogs" match

Disc 3
Easter Egg:	Music video
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice from "Diesel" match

(back to top)

Jake The Snake Roberts: Pick Your Poison

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Animal / Bundy
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; Right click twice on "Legion Of Doom"

Easter Egg:	Hogan / Grizzly
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; Left click twice on "Grizzly Smith"

Easter Egg:	Jake / Grizzly
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 1; Right click twice on "Growing Up"

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Bob Caudle interviews Jake Roberts and Ricky Steamboat
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; Left click twice on "w/ Ricky Steamboat vs Jim Nelson & Mike Miller"

Easter Egg:	Gordon Solie interviews Jake Roberts and Paul Ellering
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; Right click twice on " vs Ronnie Garvin"

Easter Egg:	Scares Earthquake and Jimmy Hart with a snake after match
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; Left click twice on " vs Earthquake"

(back to top)

The Self-Destruction Of The Ultimate Warrior

Easter Egg:	Destructivity vignette - newsstand
Access by: Go to Extras Page; Right click twice on "Warrior University"

Easter Egg:	Destructivity vignette - the gym
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 3; Left click twice on "Name Change"

(back to top)

Tombstone - The History of the Undertaker

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Paul Bearer tells King how Kane was conceived
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click twice on "WrestleMania XIV vs Kane"

Disc 3
Easter Egg:	Undertaker tells story of how his parents were killed
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; left click twice on "WrestleMania XX vs Kane"

(back to top)

The Greatest Wrestling Stars of the 80s

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Roddy Piper interview - World Wide Wrestling, 25/08/82
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click twice on "Roddy Piper"

Easter Egg:	Piper promos - getting himself on the map
Access by: Go to Extras Page 3; left click twice on "Piper's Pit"

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Piper on Dusty - handicapped story
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click twice on "Dusty Rhodes"

Easter Egg:	Ricky Steamboat blizzard match in front of 18 people
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; left click twice on "Ricky Steamboat"

Disc 3
Easter Egg:	Jimmy Snuka wins most popular wrestler of 1983 - Championship Wrestling, 03/01/84
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; right click three times on "Jimmy Snuka"

Easter Egg:	Ultimate Challenge promo - Wrestlemnania VI, 01/04/90
Access by: Go to Chapters Page; left click three times on "Hulk Hogan"

Easter Egg:	Jimmy Snuka switches managers - Championship Wrestling, 05/10/82
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click four times on "Snuka v Backlund Match"

Easter Egg:	Iron Sheik post-match interview - 26/12/83
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice on "Sheik v Backlund"

Easter Egg:	Hulk Hogan post-match interview - 23/01/84
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice on "Hogan v Sheik" Match

(back to top)

Viva Las Divas of the WWE

Easter Egg:	Maria's favourite moment in WWE - RAW, 15/11/04
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2: right click three times on "Maria"

Easter Egg:	Torrie tickles Trish during statue vignette
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2; left click three times on "Trish Stratus"

Easter Egg: Trish in lagoon: points at Coach, "Who brought him here? How did he get here?"
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 1; left click twice on "Coach with Torrie"

Easter Egg:	THQ commercial Smackdown! vs RAW, Duelling Divas
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click twice on "Stacy & Torrie Video Game Commercial"

(back to top)

Tough Enough 2004

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Family to the show
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on " Joust"

Easter Egg:	Justice owes Al Push ups
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 4; right click twice on "Justice Eliminated"

Easter Egg:	Rodimer's face blue ink
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2; left click twice on "Al Snow's Birthday"

(back to top)

Rob Van Dam: One of a Kind

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Living Dangerously post-match interview
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 2; left click twice on "Back" button

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Sabu, RVD and Bill Alfonso promo
Access by: Go to Chapters page; right click twice on "Comparing ECW & WWE"

(back to top)

The Rise and Fall of ECW

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	'Pulp Fiction' segment
Access by: Go to Chapters Page 3; left click three times on "Promos"

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Public Enemy training Mikey Whipwreck in Central Park
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click twice on "Mikey Whipwreck vs The Sandman"

Easter Egg:	RVD's scar
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click once on "Rob Van Dam vs Jerry Lynn"

(back to top)

Cheating Death Stealing Life: The Eddie Guerrero Story

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	Gobbly Gooker
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "AWA SuperClash III"

Easter Egg:	ECW Showdown
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "ECW Match"

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Survivor Series Match
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "Survivor Series Match"

Easter Egg:	No Way Out
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "No Way Out"

Easter Egg:	First Pro Match
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice on "Fighting For Honor"

Easter Egg:	Tattoo
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; left click twice on "Injury"

(back to top)

Hall of Fame 2004

Disc 1
Easter Egg:	No Mercy Commercial 2002 Featuring Pete Rose
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click twice on "Wrestlemania XVI"

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	How Bobby Henan got the Nickname 'Weasel'
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; right click once on "Busch Gardens"

Easter Egg:	How Greg Valentine got the Nickname 'Hammer'
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click once on "Intercontinental Championship"

(back to top)

Divas South of the Border

Easter Egg:	Bloopers
Access by: On Main Menu, right click 3 times on "Extras"

Easter Egg:	Lita's Sory of Changing in a Cave
Access by: Go to chapters 1; left click twice on "Lita"

Easter Egg:	Molly/Gail Playing Darts
Access by: Go to chapters 2; right click on "Molly Holly"

Easter Egg:	Sable Pours Water on Tazz; Smackdown 22/05/03
Access by: Go to Extras 1; left click on "Sable Invitational"

Easter Egg:	Jazz Throws Jackie in the Pool
Access by: Go to Extras 2; left click 3 times on "Bra & Panties Match - Trish Stratus vs Miss Jackie"

Easter Egg:	Stacy drinks Beer with Stome Cold; Raw 20/10/03
Access by: Go to Extras 3; right click twice on "Stacy Keibler"

Easter Egg:	Stacy Tells Story of Victoria Tripping
Access by: Go to Extras 4; right click on "Stacy Keibler: Stuff Magazine"

(back to top)

Wrestlemania XX

Disc 2
Easter Egg:	Andre the Giant vs. Big John Studd
Access by: On Main Menu, down arrow once on "Extras"

Easter Egg:	Hogan Slams Andre
Access by: Go to Extras page 1; left click 3 times on "Mean Gene Okerlund"

Easter Egg:	Shawn Enters
Access by: Go to Chapters page; right click twice on "Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit"

Easter Egg:	Shane/Vince Garbage Can Spot
Access by: Go to Extras page 4; left click twice on "TV Promos:Wrestlemania XX"

Disc 3
Easter Egg:	Razor Ramon Beats Shawn Michaels
Access by: After Special Features main page, go to "The Mania of Wrestlemania"; then left click once on "The prodigal son has returned"

Easter Egg:	Rock v Hogan
Access by: After Special Features main page, left click twice on "Trivia"

Easter Egg:	Steph Gets Pedigreed
Access by: After Special Features main page, go to "Wrestlemania Gallery"; go to "X8" gallery page; left click once on "Facts"

Easter Egg:	Brock Misses Shooting Star Press
Access by: After Special Features main page, go to "Wrestlemania Gallery"; go to "XIX" gallery page; left click once on "Results"

(back to top)

John Cena: Word Life

Easter Egg:	YJ Stinger Ad
Access by: Go to Extras Page 2; right click twice on "Behind The Scenes"

Easter Egg:	Funaki Interview
Access by: Go to Extras Page 1; left click once on "Main Menu

Easter Egg:	2004 Resolution Rap
Access by: Go to Main Page; right click once on "The Chapters"

(back to top)

The Stone Cold Truth

Easter Egg:	Portion of Flair for the Old
Access by: Go to extras page 1 WCW; left click once on "Flair for Gold"

Easter Egg:	Stunning photographer
Access by: Go to extras page 1 WCW; left click once on "Stunning Steve Austin vs Beautiful Bobby Eaton"

Easter Egg:	Whataburger
Access by: Go to extras page 3 WWE; right click once on "Stone Cold drinks beer, rides chair down ramp"

Easter Egg:	Brother's story about Steve's car
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "Austin's truck"

(back to top)

Mick Foley's Greatest Hits and Misses

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Mick jumping off the roof of his house
Access by: Go to extras page; left click twice on main menu button

Easter Egg: Dude Love entrance video
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "Cactus Jack vs Chris Candido"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Chef Boyardee commercial
Access by: Go to chapters page; left click twice on "Shawn Michaels vs Mankind"

Easter Egg: DX have a bad day
Access by: Go to extras page; right click twice on "Birth of Mr Socko"

(back to top)

The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection

Disc 1
Easter Egg: Ric Flair promo #1
Access by: Go to chapters page; click on "Dusty Rhodes: talking the talk"; left click once on "Flair cuts a promo"

Easter Egg: Ric Flair promo #2
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "Barry Windham: keeping up with the champ"

Disc 2
Easter Egg: Ric Flair talks about dusty's ankle injury
Access by: Go to chapters page; right click once on "main" button

Easter Egg: Promo about the Horsemen
Access by: Go to chapters page; left click once on "A day in the life of the Horsemen"

Disc 3
Easter Egg: Ric Flair cuts promo on Road Warriors and Freebirds
Access by: From main page, left click once on "play" button; WWE logo changes colour, click and play easter egg

Easter Egg: Wooo...
Access by: Go to chapters page; click on 'Celebration: A special night in Greenville'; left click twice on 'The final Nitro'

Easter egg: Video loop intended for menu windows
Access by: Go to chapters page; click on 'Celebration: A special night in Greenville'; right arrow click twice on 'main' button; beer can in Ric's hand highlights; click on beer can

(back to top)

Unforgiven 2003

Easter Egg: Unforgiven music video
Access by: From main menu, left click twice then down once from the "matches" button

(back to top)

Wrestling's Most Incredible Steel Cage Matches

Easter Egg: Snuka/Muraco confrontation
Access by: On disc 1, go to extras; right click twice on "Don Muraco vs Jimmy Snuka"

Easter Egg: Larry Zbyszko hits Bruno Sammartino with chair
Access by: Go to chapters page 1 on disc 1; right click twice on "Bruno Sammartino and Larry Zbyszko feud".

Easter Egg: Finish of Garvin vs Flair cage match
Access by: Go to chapters page 1 on disc 1; right click twice on "Ric Flair vs Ronnie Garvin".

Easter Egg: Owen Hart cage interview
Access by: Go to extras page 1 on disc 2; right click twice on "Bret Hart vs Owen Hart".

(back to top)

Trish Stratus: 100% Stratusfaction Guaranteeed

Easter Egg: Excess, sing-a-long with Saturn
Access by: Go to chapters menu; right click on "Diva Fun"

Easter Egg: Sunday Night Heat at Trish's house
Access by: Go to extras page 3; right click on "house tour"

Easter Egg: Interview bloopers
Access by: Go to extras page 4; right click on "making of..."

(back to top)

WWE From The Vault: Shawn Michaels

Easter Egg: Playboy Buddy Rose
Access by: On disc 1, go to extras page 1; left click twice from "be ready"

Easter Egg: "Sexy Boy" video
Access by: On disc 1, go to extras page 1; right click twice from "Barbershop"

Easter Egg: Shawn loses smile
Access by: On disc 2, go to extras page 2; left click twice from "photo gallery"

(back to top)

WrestleMania XIX

Easter Egg: Rock and Austin autograph-signing
Access by: Go to chapters menu on disc 2; right click from "The Rock vs Stone Cold Steve Austin"

(back to top)

Rey Mysterio 619

Easter Egg: Anthology music spot
Access by: Go to chapters menu; left click from "Who's that"

Easter Egg: He's Coming 1
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 1st extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 2
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 2nd extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 3
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 3rd extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 4
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 4th extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 5
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 5th extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 6
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 6th extra match

Easter Egg: He's Coming 7
Access by: Go to extras menu; left click from 7th extra match

(back to top)

Divas Desert Heat

Easter Egg: Stacy dancing at Raw
Access by: Go to main menu; left click from "A little extra"

Easter Egg: Torrie wants a popsicle
Access by: Go to extras page 2; left click from "Torrie vs Nidia" button

Easter Egg: Ivory slow motion
Access by: Go to extras page 3; left click from "Ivory whips it good" button

(back to top)

Raw 10th Anniversary

Easter Egg: Debut 1993
Access by: Go to "Raw retro moments" page one; right arrow click on "Monday Night Raw Debut"

Easter Egg: Raw on the roof 1995
Access by: Go to extras page; left arrow click on "The making of Raw on the roof"

Easter Egg: Raw 1996
Access by: Go to interviews page; left arrow click on "Shawn Michaels"

Easter Egg: Raw 1997
Access by: Go to "Raw retro moments" page one; left arrow click on "Vince-Bret screwed Bret"

Easter Egg:Raw 2000
Access by: Go to main menu; left arrow click on "Raw retro moments"

Easter Egg: Raw 2001
Access by: Go to main menu; left arrow click on "Interviews"

Easter Egg: Raw 2002
Access by: Go to main menu; left arrow click on "Extras"

Easter Egg: Gimmick slide show
Access by: Go to chapters page one; left arrow click on "Looked good on paper"

(back to top)

Before They Were Superstars 2

Easter Egg: John Cena as Vanilla Ice at Halloween party
Access by: Go to extras; right click on 'John Cena'

Easter Egg: Chris Jericho's Father interrupts him receiving belt
Access by: Go to extras; right click on 'Chris Jericho'

(back to top)

Divas Undressed

Easter Egg: Nidia kissing Michael Cole
Access by: Go to divas extras menu; left click from "Trish vs Terri"

Easter Egg: Backstage fight between Nidia and Torrie
Access by: Go to divas extras menu; right click from "Torrie vs Stacy"


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Decided to watch HHH/Taker from Insurrextion 2002 after it was mentioned here yesterday. It's pretty shitty for the most part. It's always strange watching Taker play the heel and he doesn't do a particularly great job here, his control segments are pretty sloppy but he throws in some good heelish antics like chop blocks and low blows when HHH begins his comeback. This match suffers through a crazy rope break when HHH simply whips Taker into them and the top rope completely goes. The both do pretty well to recover, but you can see the moments where they want to use the ropes and can't and the resulting action seems a bit forced. This was going to get a very low rating until the final five minutes actually steps up nicely and it's actually very entertaining. Numerous excellent counters out of Pedigrees and Chokeslams and a couple of good false finishes. Taker also takes a nasty looking knee shot from HHH while holding a chair. The ending itself is a little abrupt, HHH just kinda hits the Pedigree after both men were taking a breather.

An ok match, some sloppiness from both guys but the final five minutes or so made up for it. ***3/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shawn Michaels vs John Cena - Raw UK 23/04/2007

***3/4

First time i have seen this match, ive seen people on here throw near and indeed the full 5 stars at this, dont get me wrong, i enjoyed it for the most part, but much prefer the WM23 match if im honest, maybe im missing something here and ill have to rewatch it soon, its a really good match and the length of the match makes you appreciate it a bit more, but IMHO, not as good as alot of members seem to have it at.

Shawn Michaels vs Davey Boy Smith - KOTR 1996

****1/4

This is my match, one of my all time faves if im honest, i have wrote about it on here before. fucking love it, great match up as usual between the two, perfect pace, love Bulldog's power moves on HBK, just an awesome match.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I love the Shawn-Cena match from RAW, I have it at the full *****. My definite MOTY, with only Cena-Umaga really standing a chance. A specific part, I completely adore, was the reversal roles each respective competitor portrayed, as opposed to their former encounter, Cena instead is the heelish upstar, while Shawn is the grasping babyface. It's truly remarkable, and the finish's execution is of organismic visual. YES, YES, YES.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Haven't watched any wrestling in forever it feels. I'm off tomorrow and am planning to sit and watch some stuff. Might chuck in the ladder match set and watch some MITB since we're on our way there. Either that or pick up where I left off with BORK a few months ago. Am I the only one who thinks Rhodes might take the SD case btw? I'd love to see it personally. Might actually go for some Orton tomorrow. This is the first he's had something to do in forever. I'm interested again.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

*WWE Hell In A Cell 2011:*
Christian vs. Sheamus - ***1/4
Sin Cara vs Sin Cara - *3/4
Air Boom vs Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2
Mark Henry vs Randy Orton - ****1/4
Cody Rhodes vs John Morrision - **
Alberto Del Rio vs CM Punk vs John Cena - ***3/4
Post Match: AWESOME

*WWE Vengence 2011:*
Air Boom vs Jack Swagger and Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs. Zack Ryder - **1/4
Christian vs. Sheamus - ***
The Miz and R-Truth vs. CM Punk and Triple H - *1/2
Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes - ***3/4
Mark Henry(c) vs. The Big Show - ***1/2
Alberto Del Rio vs John Cena - ***1/2

*Overall:* Fun shows, both weren't outstanding but still I enjoyed them. Booker and Cole were lots of fun together. Air Boom were great, Henry was THE man then, Sin Cara vs Sin Cara and the second tag team match in Vengence sucked and the Christian/Sheamus were good but right now their matches could be much, much better.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So re-watched both Rock/Cena matches and my ratings stay the same (***1/2 for 28 and ** for 29), and watching them both it makes me wish I could go back and get tickets for WM28 instead of 29 just for that awesome moment when Rock ends up defeating Cena (though the fact Taker/Punk happened at 29 and was the best match of both shows, overall I'm happy with where I went). It also bothers me a little that the biggest show of the year ended with the top guy in the business right now having his greatest victory ever, the man who he beat acknowledging and respecting it, shaking his hand raising his hand, hugging him and all that... and it ends with the crowd booing them. And what you see on video doesn't do it justice just how much Cena and Rock were booed out of the building for that (even though we weren't necessarily booing The Rock, but still...). It's just rubs me the wrong way that this is the guy that WWE chooses to keep as their top face. If he was the top guy and a heel, I could get on board but damn, it just seemed so wrong then and still seems wrong now. I mean it's one thing for something like that to close out a Raw or any other PPV, but Wrestlemania? That's the show where the majority should go home happy with the main event result. Meh...

Also watched the Punk/Rock matches earlier in the week. Still at *** for RR and ***1/4 for EC. Definitely didn't live up to the hype but I still don't think they were as godly abysmal as some would make it out to be. Nevertheless it amazes me that a heel Punk could get that much crowd support against Rock. At Rumble the crowd was noticably more in favor of Rock but Punk still got a load of cheers (until after The Shield stuff happened)... I'd say it was 70-30 as a whole in favor of Rock, but at EC there were times where it was really a neck and neck tie, maybe slightly in favor of Rock. And then of course Punk also split the crowd at Mania and I even remember Taker getting booed a bit (though Punk did get more heat, but not by much), something that even HBK and HHH couldn't do. Punk is too positively over to be a heel and it makes sense they turned him back face... although I kinda wish they dragged it out a bit. Maybe have Heyman almost cost Punk matches until he did cost Punk a match and then Punk wants to split with Heyman (and until that point he could've been more of a tweener). 

Oh, and some RATINGZ:

Henry/Orton HIAC 11- **3/4
Punk/Cena/Del Rio HIAC- ***3/4
Henry/Show Vengeance 2011- ***1/2
Miz-Truth/Punk-HHH Vengeance 2011- **
Cena/Del Rio Vengeance 2011- **3/4


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Every Rock match since he's comeback have been *'s at best.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Gamblor said:


> So re-watched both Rock/Cena matches and my ratings stay the same (***1/2 for 28 and ** for 29), and watching them both it makes me wish I could go back and get tickets for WM28 instead of 29 just for that awesome moment when Rock ends up defeating Cena (though the fact Taker/Punk happened at 29 and was the best match of both shows, overall I'm happy with where I went). It also bothers me a little that the biggest show of the year ended with the top guy in the business right now having his greatest victory ever, the man who he beat acknowledging and respecting it, shaking his hand raising his hand, hugging him and all that... and it ends with the crowd booing them. And what you see on video doesn't do it justice just how much Cena and Rock were booed out of the building for that (even though we weren't necessarily booing The Rock, but still...). It's just rubs me the wrong way that this is the guy that WWE chooses to keep as their top face. If he was the top guy and a heel, I could get on board but damn, it just seemed so wrong then and still seems wrong now. I mean it's one thing for something like that to close out a Raw or any other PPV, but Wrestlemania? That's the show where the majority should go home happy with the main event result. Meh...
> 
> Also watched the Punk/Rock matches earlier in the week. Still at *** for RR and ***1/4 for EC. Definitely didn't live up to the hype but I still don't think they were as godly abysmal as some would make it out to be. Nevertheless it amazes me that a heel Punk could get that much crowd support against Rock. At Rumble the crowd was noticably more in favor of Rock but Punk still got a load of cheers (until after The Shield stuff happened)... I'd say it was 70-30 as a whole in favor of Rock, but at EC there were times where it was really a neck and neck tie, maybe slightly in favor of Rock. And then of course Punk also split the crowd at Mania and I even remember Taker getting booed a bit (though Punk did get more heat, but not by much), something that even HBK and HHH couldn't do. Punk is too positively over to be a heel and it makes sense they turned him back face... although I kinda wish they dragged it out a bit. Maybe have Heyman almost cost Punk matches until he did cost Punk a match and then Punk wants to split with Heyman (and until that point he could've been more of a tweener).
> 
> ...


The only reason Cena is a face is because his image is tied into WWE's public image as a company. That is why there is so much space between Cena and the rest of the roster and why WWE has not done anything about it. What they sell publicly to the fanbase and shareholders is tied more to John Cena that anybody else.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*







*Rhyno vs Albert (c) For the Intercontinental title- WWF RAW Is WAR 7/9/01*

This was an average match. Not a completely bad match but just average and dull. It started off good with both Rhyno and Albert beating the crap out of each other with punches with one trying to take the other down. The two just completely go at it with Rhyno hammering away on Albert in the corner turnbuckle and giving Albert a running kick to the face but the X-Pac interferences got completely annoying which dragged the match down a bit. Although X-Pac's superkick on Rhyno did look sweet. Some nice power moves are hit with Rhyno taking Albert down with a spinning Spinebuster and also with a back-body drop. Rhyno hits a flying splash followed with a pin but Albert kicks out at 2. Rhyno attempts to go for a Gore but misses, hitting the second turnbuckle instead. Trying to capitalize on Rhyno missing the Gore, Albert tries to take Rhyno down with a baldo bomb but Rhyno fights out of it. X-Pac interferences in the match again but eats a Gore from Rhyno. Albert takes Rhyno down with a Bicycle kick, goes for a cover, and wins the match along with retaining his Intercontinental title. Nothing more to say about this match other than it being a filler Intercontinental title defense from Albert. 

*Rating:* ★★


*Rhyno vs Kane- WWF Smackdown 7/12/01*

The match starts off with a good ole fahsion brawl between the two with Kane getting the better of Rhyno. Kane hits Rhyno with a running clothesline and then follows it up with another running clothesline.It continues with your usual big man stuff with Kane hitting a powerslam on Rhyno. Kane heads up on the top rope but gets knocked off landing onto the ropes by Rhyno. Kane falls off the ropes and outside the ring with Rhyno going outside the ring as well. Rhyno throws Kane head-first into the barricade and throws him back into the ring. Rhyno is in a control of the match at this point which ttakes punches to the face from Kane to get him back in control of this match. Kane now in control takes Rhyno down with an eblow to the face and a clothesline. Kane then takes Rhyno down with a sidewalk slam. Kane goes up on the top rope again and hits Rhyno with a flying clothesline. The match comes to a conclusion when Kane throws Rhyno onto the referee and hitting a clothesline on the refereee by accident and getting a schoolboy from Rhyno with a Team Alliance referee running down to the ring and counting the pin with Rhyno picking up the win (hey that rhymed). solid stuff between Kane and Rhyno. I didn't like the finish but it made sense given the InVasion storyline at the time. 

*Rating:* ★★★


*Rhyno vs The Undertaker- WWF RAW Is WAR 7/23/01*

This match was close to being a squash match. Good brawling that starts off the match with The Undertaker striking Rhyno down. Rhyno got some offense during the match but overall, The Undertaker dominated the match for the most part. Rhyno attempts to hit Taker with a Gore but Taker sends Rhyno down with a big boot. During the match, DDP goes near the ring to hit on Sara whose at ringside. How they managed to turn one of the most over guys during the InVasion angle and completely misuse him by turning him into a stalker is really beyond me but I digress. Anyways, The Undertaker takes Rhyno with a chokeslam, going for a pin and that's pretty much it. This match was way one-sided for my liking but this was mainly about furthering the angle between Taker and DDP. 

*Rating:* ★★ 


*Rhyno & Tazz vs Edge & Christian- WWF Smackdown 7/26/01*

Basic tag match here. The match started off with Edge getting the upperhand on Rhyno up until the point where Rhyno gave Edge a running kick out of the ring. Rhyno tags in Tazz kicking Edge in the chest and hitting him with a clothesline. Tazz tags Rhyno back in who kicks Edge right on his head. Rhyno puts Edge up on his shoulders but Edge reverses it into an Edge-O-Matic. The usual hot-tags are made with Edge tagging Christian and Rhyno tagging in Tazz. Christian takes Tazz down first and then gives Rhyno an armdrag. Christian then gives Rhyno an Inverted facelock backbreaker.Christian goes after Tazz who gives Christian a T-Bone Taz-Plex. Edge goes up on the top rope and hits Rhyno and Tazz with a double flying clothesline. Rhyno takes Edge down with a Spinebuster. Rhyno goes to give Edge a Gore but hits Christian instead who falls on top of Tazz. Edge hits Rhyno with a spear to prevent the pin with Christian pinning Tazz and Edge & Christian win the match.

*Rating:* ★★1/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Every time I see somebody talking about Wrestlemania 29 I want to buy it. Then I remember how shit it was and come to my senses. At this rate I won't see it until Mania 30 is upon us and the DVD is cheap. Not that I mind all that much, there's nothing on there I'm dying to see. I just don't feel justified joining in the discussion for obvious reasons. 

Don't remember shit about Vengeance or HIAC 2011 apart from the epic post HIAC stuff. I marked for JR's commentary during that tbh. He was back to his old form for that couple of minutes. Get in there! Get in there dammit!


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Gamblor said:


> So re-watched both Rock/Cena matches and my ratings stay the same (***1/2 for 28 and ** for 29), and watching them both it makes me wish I could go back and get tickets for WM28 instead of 29 just for that awesome moment when Rock ends up defeating Cena (though the fact Taker/Punk happened at 29 and was the best match of both shows, overall I'm happy with where I went). It also bothers me a little that the biggest show of the year ended with the top guy in the business right now having his greatest victory ever, the man who he beat acknowledging and respecting it, shaking his hand raising his hand, hugging him and all that... and it ends with the crowd booing them. And what you see on video doesn't do it justice just how much Cena and Rock were booed out of the building for that (even though we weren't necessarily booing The Rock, but still...). It's just rubs me the wrong way that this is the guy that WWE chooses to keep as their top face. If he was the top guy and a heel, I could get on board but damn, it just seemed so wrong then and still seems wrong now. I mean it's one thing for something like that to close out a Raw or any other PPV, but Wrestlemania? That's the show where the majority should go home happy with the main event result. Meh...
> 
> Also watched the Punk/Rock matches earlier in the week. Still at *** for RR and ***1/4 for EC. Definitely didn't live up to the hype but I still don't think they were as godly abysmal as some would make it out to be. Nevertheless it amazes me that a heel Punk could get that much crowd support against Rock. At Rumble the crowd was noticably more in favor of Rock but Punk still got a load of cheers (until after The Shield stuff happened)... I'd say it was 70-30 as a whole in favor of Rock, but at EC there were times where it was really a neck and neck tie, maybe slightly in favor of Rock. And then of course Punk also split the crowd at Mania and I even remember Taker getting booed a bit (though Punk did get more heat, but not by much), something that even HBK and HHH couldn't do. Punk is too positively over to be a heel and it makes sense they turned him back face... although I kinda wish they dragged it out a bit. Maybe have Heyman almost cost Punk matches until he did cost Punk a match and then Punk wants to split with Heyman (and until that point he could've been more of a tweener).
> 
> ...


Agreed with all of this but on the subject of Cena the most, it truly is mind boggling where the company goes with him these days. I dont even mind the guy but it really is time for some changes with him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ROCK's matches since returning:

w/ Cena vs Miz-Truth - ★★¾
vs Cena I - ★★★★
vs Punk I - ★★½
vs Punk II - ★★¼
vs Cena II - ★★ (need to rewatch)

------------------------------

Getting into some 09 Orton now. Watched a match with MVP which was good until Shane interfered and caused a DQ. ★★½. Also discovered a no-DQ WM rematch with HHH the week before Backlash. ★★★ for that one. If their WM match had been more like this, maybe it would've been a success. They work so much better in a No Holds Barred environment. Don't know who's insane idea was it for this personal feud to be a traditional wrestling match in the main event of Wrestlemania.

Now I'm gonna check out this 10 man tag match where the faces wear L.A. Lakers shirts. Also known as the match that got Mr. Kennedy fired.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HIAC 2011 was a pretty underrated event. Sub out one of the worst matches of the year in Sin Cara vs Sin Cara and you had a solid show with matches worth checking out from top to bottom. When I watched it last year I was plenty happy with what was given.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/cena london is awesome just rewatched it, have their mania better though but both around ****1/2-3/4 if you want to throw *s

Need something good to watch tonite gents, any rec? preferably wwe 2004-13


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash 2006.

or any MITB PPV. Terrific franchise.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/cena london is awesome just rewatched it, have their mania better though but both around ****1/2-3/4 if you want to throw *s
> 
> Need something good to watch tonite gents, any rec? preferably wwe 2004-13


Randy Orton/Christian feud from 2011. 
Eddie Guerrero/Rey Mysterio


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Nash vs HHH - ladder match with a sledgehammer hanging. classic.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> Nash vs HHH - ladder match with a sledgehammer hanging. classic.




In awfulness. 

*3/4


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> In awfulness.
> 
> *3/4


HHH/Nash was horrible. *


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

orton/christian otl :mark: :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If we're going to rec some wrestlecrap then lets go back to the Sin Cara vs Sin Cara match from HIAC 2011. Can't get worse than that. Unless you want to rip out your eyes and view Lawler vs Cole from WrestleMania 27.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH vs Nash ladder match is comedy. ★★½ just for the laugh I got out of it. Have to give props to Nash for taking so many ladder shots to the leg knowing how fucked his quads are.



Cleavage said:


> Randy Orton/Christian feud from 2011.


I went through all the matches a month or so ago and I still wanna check them out again. Watched the Over the Limit match a couple of nights ago and it held up at ★★★★½.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

orton/christian otl may be the best non-gimmick match since hbk/taker to not involve punk/dbryan


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Just downloaded a Randy Orton pack on XWT. Lots and lots of matches there. Here we go.

rton :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Over The Limit is their only match worth seeing. Rest were highly average. Heck, most felt like the same match done all over again.

Give me plenty of other Christian matches instead. skins, go through all of Christian's 2009. Now that will be a fun way to kill some time tonight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan D. said:


> Just downloaded a Randy Orton pack on XWT. Lots and lots of matches there. Here we go.
> 
> rton :mark:


Is it the one that's called "Randy Orton WWE Collection"? I had a look through it and discovered a Barrett match from a few months ago on Main Event being there.

I really don't know if I'm willing to go through any of their non-PPV matches consider how I've loathed the thought of seeing them in the ring but I might just give in to at least a couple of them including that match from the pack.

Oh well, now it's time for Orton vs HHH last man standing from Raw. It was good last time, hopefully gets even better this time!


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Orton/Christian series:

SD: ***3/4
OTL: ****1/4
MITB: **3/4
Summerslam: ****1/2
Cage: ***3/4

Summerslam is they're GOAT match IMO

Fucking awesome series.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston, Main Event (5/1/13)*

On the whole I really enjoyed this and its definitely the best illustration yet of Cesaro's quality this year, but there was still a few nagging issues in amongst the great work. The early matwork wasn't especially pretty or well executed but in a way I enjoyed the rugged and authentic looking struggles for control and the way it developed a structure and early theme with Cesaro struggling to find ways to control Kofi and having to repeatedly roll to the floor to regroup was refreshing to see in WWE where it seems matches typically these days seem to have largely done away with building an overarching structure. Still the next portion of the match before the legwork felt like the weakest stretch of the match for me. Kofi's execution was off in his offence and I'll forever loathe the setup and visuals of his offence. As much as I enjoyed Cesaro again struggling to assert his dominance it just seemed to drag and stagnate and the fact they alternated between teasing a Cesaro control segment, then breaking out big nearfalls (SOS & Michinoku Driver) before reverting back to basic sequences just seemed a bit haphazard. Still I loved the Cesaro mid air amateur takedown counter as Kofi tried the leapfrog and I dug the entire sequence where Cesaro caught Kingston in mid air, transitioned to a powerslam position only for Kofi to roll through and score a close nearfall. 

Entire legwork sequence however was the peak of the match and really a great Cesaro showcase. Loved the opportunistic double stomp to the leg, the callback to their title change on Raw by catching the TIP kick into a half crab, the brilliant one legged giant swing and I also dug Cesaro immediately switching from a pin attempt seamlessly into another half crab only with his left leg trapping Kofi in the middle of the ring. The impressive superplex spot was also another great demonstration of Cesaro's strength and the entire segment really put over his wonderful offence whilst highlighting his counter wrestling and worked as a great champ in peril segment with Kofi seemingly being overwhelmed at every turn. I liked the finish as well as the nature of Cesaro's eventual control segment made sense for a sudden and impactful finish and it played off of Cesaro's repeated counters with Kofi managing to land a crucial strike that evaded Cesaro's gameplan. In hindsight I suppose the lack of a drawn out comeback explains the middle section of the match which resembled a tease of a finishing stretch which strengthens the overall quality of the match. I definitely think this is something I'd use to showcase Cesaro's merit as opposed to Kofi who again continued to frustrate me with some of his offence, but tbf this is likely the best Kofi match I'm likely to see for some time and they definitely layed out a smart match that masked his limitations whilst highlighting Cesaro's strengths.


Edit: Orton/Christian OTL was far and away their best outing imo, with the Smackdown title change likely second. Loved the underdog theme with Christian trying to prove he could hang with Orton and the beautiful callback spot to the Smackdown finish with Christian learning from his mistake. Its likely the best illustration of Orton's counter heavy matches and I thought the transitions were timed superbly and the character work of Christian added a heightened sense of drama prevalent in every nearfall. Big fan of the punt tease > spear nearfall with Orton's hesitation nearly proving his downfall.

Summerslam match for me felt like a generic WWE propfest which struggled to differentiate from other similar gimmick matches. The same weapons and spots were apparent and I couldn't really spot much in the way of difference between that & the Orton/Punk LMS from Extreme Rules the same year.

As for the OTL match being the best non gimmick match since HBK/Taker sans Punk or Bryan, I'd say Cena/Mysterio, Mcintyre/Masters & Regal/Ambrose I & II could be in the equation as well. Sheamus/Show HIAC would be another match pushing Orton/Christian close imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea cody I agree, Ive actually heard members having ss 11 over otl, yea I heard he had a monster year especially on superstars


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *Is it the one that's called "Randy Orton WWE Collection"?* I had a look through it and discovered a Barrett match from a few months ago on Main Event being there.
> 
> I really don't know if I'm willing to go through any of their non-PPV matches consider how I've loathed the thought of seeing them in the ring but I might just give in to at least a couple of them including that match from the pack.
> 
> Oh well, now it's time for Orton vs HHH last man standing from Raw. It was good last time, hopefully gets even better this time!


Yes it is. I'm going to watch Ziggler/Orton from NOC 12. I remember it being lots of fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The beauty of it for me on the last watch was purely Cesaro's domination damn near hiding all the obvious flaws of Kofi's offensive work. Or better yet, taking advantage of 'em. Which shocked me as it appeared Cesaro was almost working an audible for portions; making the mistakes into his positives. Felt like a good bit of a real life "shadowboxing" exhibition with how the only parts to notice or be amazed by were strictly Cesaro while his opponent was about as lifeless _(with good reason considering the story/way the match was worked)_ as a local jobber. Cesaro's performance blew me away to the point where I thought it was a rather tremendous match at the end of the day. No matter who his opponent was.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Obfuscation said:


> The beauty of it for me on the last watch was purely Cesaro's domination damn near hiding all the obvious flaws of Kofi's offensive work. Or better yet, taking advantage of 'em. Which shocked me as it appeared Cesaro was almost working an audible for portions; making the mistakes into his positives. Felt like a good bit of a real life "shadowboxing" exhibition with how the only parts to notice or be amazed by were strictly Cesaro while his opponent was about as lifeless _(with good reason considering the story/way the match was worked)_ as a local jobber. Cesaro's performance blew me away to the point where I thought it was a rather tremendous match at the end of the day. No matter who his opponent was.


Nice to see you come around to it. It was a rather strange layout. They clearly established an early theme which I appreciated as opposed to just running through spots and in hindsight the middle stretch of big nearfalls is excusable given the nature of the finish & Kofi not having a built to comeback, but that middle stretch did drag just a bit for me, largely because most of Kofi's offence looked pretty suspect and just poor. There were a couple of great Cesaro counters however and everything after the legwork was really top notch stuff. Hard to say if I'd put it over Show/Del Rio, definitely would have Ohno/Regal still ahead and maybe the best Bryan/Shield match just ahead as well. I think Cesaro's performance was likely better than anyone else's sans Regal, but I think Show/Del Rio for example as an overall match had very little I could critique, whereas that middle stretch in Cesaro/Kingston just felt a tad stagnant after a few minutes. A minor criticism in an otherwise great match which is likely Kofi's best match to date.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea it looks like its orton/Christan otl ,some Christan 09 and kofi/cesaro me again. Havent watched cena/rey raw since it aired, another match to through in there is rey/Jericho bash 09 if that counts (title vs mask gimmick). Huge advocate of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Its a great match but im struggling to finish cena/hbk london right now. I alot of the times have the attetnion span of a 9 year old :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Nice to see you come around to it. It was a rather strange layout. They clearly established an early theme which I appreciated as opposed to just running through spots and in hindsight the middle stretch of big nearfalls is excusable given the nature of the finish & Kofi not having a built to comeback, but that middle stretch did drag just a bit for me, largely because most of Kofi's offence looked pretty suspect and just poor. There were a couple of great Cesaro counters however and everything after the legwork was really top notch stuff. Hard to say if I'd put it over Show/Del Rio, definitely would have Ohno/Regal still ahead and maybe the best Bryan/Shield match just ahead as well. I think Cesaro's performance was likely better than anyone else's sans Regal, but I think Show/Del Rio for example as an overall match had very little I could critique, whereas that middle stretch in Cesaro/Kingston just felt a tad stagnant after a few minutes. A minor criticism in an otherwise great match which is likely Kofi's best match to date.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/19951377-post1478.html

Original thoughts on it with my last watch: aka the one that's stuck.

Your gripes come across as logical if you ask me. Personal dislike aside, it's just the truth of how Kofi's work appeared in the match. Single performance wise, this match is very high up for me. I probably wouldn't have it over quite a few matches - probably about 7-8 off the top of my head I can have over it, including a few more Cesaro matches. The low points of the match with Kofi's shoddy work were nearly negated for me whenever I look at this match on the whole thanks to Cesaro's positives, so it's a damn good match for my money. One of the def higher ups on a WWE list this year.

Still on Cal's side in disliking or not thinking Show vs Del Rio LMS I was anything special. It didn't click for me, despite how much I adore Show's work.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think I liked it (Cesaro/Broom) more than you (WOOLCOCK) did. The matwork wasn't great (what WWE matwork is? Legitimate question. Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal, yeah. Other than that?), but it was insane how Cesaro actually manged to carry him to neat struggles which I thought was impossible. I don't remember any part of the match that dragged. You get some shitty Kofi strikes, but how long did that last (again, legit question, IDR how long it took between Cesaro going outside to leg work)? The near fall section doesn't bother me because it makes sense to the beginning of the leg work. Cesaro could early get put away a few times so he realises he needs a target and heads for that leg. Kofi's strikes are dogshit, though, yeah. No excusing that. Leg work was the real 'this is a fucking masterful carry' part of the match. That stomp on the leg was fucking ludicrous and probably one of my favourite spots ever. There's like four more in the match that rule near that level; Cesaro was just unreal with the awesome shit. The flash finish was completely genius. Didn't give shitty Kofi any chances to no sell the leg, or just get too much of his terrible offense in in general. It was just 'fuck I need a way out here' - *KICK!* 'Well, THAT worked'. Cesaro managed to control Kofi's shittiness and when the time was right the match just ends. I could see why somene would want build, but....it's Kofi Kingston build.


I didn't find any Orton/Christian other than OTL *that* good. I don't even know what their second best match was, but I didn't love it. I remember the SmackDown match boring the piss out of me and being standard back and forth piles of nothing. Been since it aired, though. MITB didn't float my boat a whole lot. Agreed with WOOLCOCK on SummerSlam being a WWE propfest. Wan't TOO proppy and it wasn't a garbage match or anything, but I don't really care for those WWE-style 'hardcore' matches. OTL is really good, but I didn't think it was amazing or anything. Call me bias but I thought Orton/Henry was better.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know which I prefer between SummerSlam and Over the Limit. As a fan of no holds barred match, I loved the SS one even though I feel it was a bit too one-sided but with Christian's excellent bumping, it was not that much of a problem. MITB had great action while it lasted, CP was just typical quality from them and both the SD matches were excellent.

Just finished that LMS match with Orton and HHH. Even better compared to first time I saw it. Great leg work and brawl plus plenty of time and no shitty commercials to ruin the flow. Between ★★★¾ and ★★★★.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't find any Orton/Christian other than OTL *that* good. I don't even know what their second best match was, but I didn't love it. *I remember the SmackDown match boring the piss out of me and being standard back and forth piles of nothing*. Been since it aired, though. MITB didn't float my boat a whole lot. Agreed with WOOLCOCK on SummerSlam being a WWE propfest. Wan't TOO proppy and it wasn't a garbage match or anything, but I don't really care for those WWE-style 'hardcore' matches. OTL is really good, but I didn't think it was amazing or anything. Call me bias but I thought Orton/Henry was better.


Oh thank science. I watched it numerous times and fail to see what is "great" about it, myself. Hardly was even a good match. Both men had better matches that year with different opponents.

No Holds Barred was way too one sided for me to give a damn. Not to mention that finish which I can't stand b/c it is so friggin stupid.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Brye said:


> Imagine a six man tag with 2009 Angle and the American Wolves on the same team. :lmao
> 
> That's a shame though, definitely would always expect more out of two guys that wrestled at such a high level.
> 
> ...


My favorite No Mercy I have ever watched. Even the theme song was splendid. If they ever decide to bring back an old PPV like they did with No Way Out in June last year, No Mercy should be it.

Can't wait to see it again - it's been far too long.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always seemed to get a kick out of the No Mercy franchise, myself. Don't know why. It always averaged out to an entertaining or great show for me. 2003, 2006, & 2008. Wonderful PPVs.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

orton/christian otl holds up well. Throw in BL 04 with foley and sd 06 with rey and that my top 3 randell matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Top three favorite Orton matches? Shooot. That's a list I've never taken the time to ponder. Off the top of my head it may look like: vs Foley from Backlash '04, vs Undertaker from WrestleMania 21, &... vs Mysterio/Benoit/something Smackdown 2006 related probably. Possibly even another match vs Undertaker making the cut off. Or vs Cena No Way Out '08/Breaking Point. Good grief.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

*Your thoughts on Orton/Punk LMS at Extreme Rules 2011?*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sadly poor. Rather atypical WWE/Orton type of gimmick match that didn't go beyond underwhelming.

Their WrestleMania 27 & RAW rematch were much, much better, imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

havent seen any of the punk/orton series

orton matches are very hit or miss to me tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

16 matches each for Undertaker vs Austin & Undertaker vs Triple H series.

I'm not big on many of these matches. I should see how their entire history averages out. Seems to be that 2002 was the stinker year for both of their matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 3 Orton matches would be pretty hard for me to decide. The 3 I would rate as best would be different to the 3 I consider favorites. I know the Smackdown 06 match with Rey will be there. Probably one of the Taker matches (SS or HIAC) and either Foley or one of the many Benoit matches.

Just watched a short match Orton and Christian had way back in 2002. The potential was there but the finish was botched. It's funny that they've worked together on three different points in their careers and every time Orton was a face even though majority of his career, he's been a heel. Hope when/if he turns, he gets to have another match or two with face Christian.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

*Just watched Orton/Benjamin from Bad Blood 2004. Fun match. Ric Flair GOATing during the match was great. I also loved Orton's promo that preceded the match talking about greatness. Great work. ***1/2. I'm probably going to give a watch at the Orton/Cena series.*


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Obfuscation said:


> Always seemed to get a kick out of the No Mercy franchise, myself. Don't know why. It always averaged out to an entertaining or great show for me. 2003, 2006, & 2008. Wonderful PPVs.


The name itself is wonderful and the game is superb. It's appalling that the best they could come up with as a replacement to the franchise was Bragging Rights -___-

To the best of my recollection, counting backwards, these are my personal highlights:
2008: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - ****1/2
2007: Randy Orton vs. Triple H - ****
2006: William Regal vs. Chris Benoit - ****
2005: ??? I can't seem to remember anything that particularly stood out here
2004: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman - ****
2003: Kurt Angle vs. John Cena - ***3/4
2002: Tag Finals - ****1/4
2001 and rest: Haven't seen

Out of the ones I have seen, I feel like it's very fitting how the very last No Mercy saw the best main event the franchise ever produced, which only adds to its unquestionable awesomeness.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best matches from the No Mercy PPVs as I can remember.

1999: -
2000: Benoit vs Triple H - ★★★★
2001: Jericho vs The Rock - ★★★★½
2002: Tie between tag team finals and Taker vs Lesnar - both ★★★★½
2003: Angle vs Cena - ★★★★
2004: JBL vs Undertaker - ★★★½
2005: Orton's vs Undertaker - ★★★★
2006: Benoit vs Regal - ★★★★¼
2007: Orton vs Triple H - ★★★★½
2008: Jericho vs HBK - ★★★★

Only seen a couple of matches from the 00 and 01 ones, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bryan D. said:


> *Just watched Orton/Benjamin from Bad Blood 2004. Fun match. Ric Flair GOATing during the match was great. I also loved Orton's promo that preceded the match talking about greatness. Great work. ***1/2. I'm probably going to give a watch at the Orton/Cena series.*


Most memorable Orton promo for me. GET A LOOK AT GREATNESS.

Good match too - ****1/4*. Those two were getting to work vs each other in '04 was a dream.



Isotopes said:


> The name itself is wonderful and the game is superb. It's appalling that the best they could come up with as a replacement to the franchise was Bragging Rights -___-
> 
> To the best of my recollection, counting backwards, these are my personal highlights:
> 2008: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho - ****1/2
> ...


Great theme song that went with it. The WWF/WWE Jim Johnston 'No Mercy' song, I'm referring to that is.

Fun plan, here's mine:

2008: The whole show. Legit - Five matches out of the seven were very good/great.
2007: Orton vs Trips x2 & a Punjabi Prison match that had no business being as acceptable as it was. Interesting night throughout considering the Cena loss.
2006: Again, another whole show love. Benoit vs Regal being a surprise "bonus" match and as classic as it was is tremendous. *****1/2* Not to mention two underrated bouts in Helms vs Hardy & Team ROH vs Stevens/James.
2005: JBL vs Mysterio killing it & a damn good United States Championship four way match.
2004: London vs Kidman - ****1/2* Always been the universal show stealer that night. Show vs Angle was buckets of fun in its own right.
2003: Cena vs Angle - ******, Tajiri vs Mysterio - ******, Vince vs Steph in a killer emotional contest - *****, & Benoit vs A-Train - ****1/4*. Quality night all around with a hot crowd.
2002: Undertaker vs Lesnar - *****3/4*. An instant classic; put the HIAC match on a different level. Plus, Jericho/Christian vs Booker/Goldust in a blistering opener - ****3/4*
2001: Kane vs Test in a GREAT "big man" clash, Hardys vs Hurricane/Storm in a high octane tag team sprint, a wild Austin vs Angle vs Van Dam match that put a smile on my face, and naturally, the much loved Jericho vs Rock match which saw Jericho finally win the big one.
2000: Rock vs Angle & a GREAT Triple H vs Benoit match. ****1/2* & ******, off the top of my head. Truth be told, I could use a bit of a refresher course.
1999: Hardys vs Edge & Christian Ladder match - *****1/2* :mark:

A good slew of matches all throughout the history of the PPV franchise. WWF/WWE turned it up once October came around during 1999 - 2008


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

*Thoughts on Orton/Cena from Summerslam 2007? Well, that was a good match. The crowd was really into it booing the crap out of Cena during the bout. ***3/4 to me. They have solid chemistry together. I gotta give a watch at Orton/Cena from NWO 08.*


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I just watched the Cena/Orton iron man match at bragging rights for the first time. I liked it a lot but I'm also a fan of iron man matches. What is everyones thoughts on this one?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I dint have my ratings with me but I'm pretty sure I have Orton/Cena's Ironman at ****1/4. I know I liked it a lot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bryan D. said:


> *Thoughts on Orton/Cena from Summerslam 2007? Well, that was a good match. The crowd was really into it booing the crap out of Cena during the bout. ***3/4 to me. They have solid chemistry together. I gotta give a watch at Orton/Cena from NWO 08.*


Truth be told, I used to like it a few years ago and now it's not too high in my books. Both men seem to go around in the same sequence about four times over till the finish pop up out of nowhere. Rabid crowd behind it, but the match itself was kind of weird on the majority.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> I just watched the Cena/Orton iron man match at bragging rights for the first time. I liked it a lot but I'm also a fan of iron man matches. What is everyones thoughts on this one?


In the minority of being a fan. It's quite good; felt they made good use of the very long duration both men had to go through. I got a kick out of the shenanigans seen in it too. Finish was a bit expect, but I've seen worse. ****1/2*

Orton trying to blow up John-boy is fantastic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched some dolph gems tonite circa 2009. Find my self watch matches with a guy named Jimmy Wang Yang, yea didnt mis spell it

orton/cena series is piss poor and the iron man is too cartoony for my taste. Only one half way decent is BP and maybe ss 07 but both are ok at best


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cartoony is a semi-fitting word. I won't deny it and honestly I think that's the aspect about it that I liked. Fun comes in all shades.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Their I Quit match from Boiling Points is one if my favorite matches. I have it at ****. The kendo stick sequence is just awesome to watch.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I hate Orton/Cena from SS '09 so much haha. Only match I really like is the NWO '08. I go back and forth on the BP match, SS '07 is ok and I can't stand the HIAC or Iron Man.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

It's literally amazing how much full shit is on youtube these days. Summer Slam 2001.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dang, entire SummerSlam 2001 is up? Score for those who don't own it. One of my favorite PPVs.

Royal Rumble '02 holds up as an entire event. Jericho vs Rock was even better than I remembered. Great chemistry among the two. Yeah, there was some goofy ref shenanigans, and a brief bit of typical "heel foul play". Didn't matter to me, it all worked in the given situation. Big fan of this; lots of FUN. 

******


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Obfuscation said:


> Dang, entire SummerSlam 2001 is up? Score for those who don't own it. One of my favorite PPVs.
> 
> Royal Rumble '02 holds up as an entire event. Jericho vs Rock was even better than I remembered. Great chemistry among the two. Yeah, there was some goofy ref shenanigans, and a brief bit of typical "heel foul play". Didn't matter to me, it all worked in the given situation. Big fan of this; lots of FUN.
> 
> ******


Yeah, many full PPV's. Jericho/Rock and Austin/Angle had some interesting rivalries going on in 2001. Almost felt like Austin and Rock were really trying to groom those dudes as the future. Jericho winning the undisputed was probably the best decision and gaining more ME gold lead to him being the most credible jobber today. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well someone had to be a credible jobber of the bunch. 8*D

Both those top flight programs from 2001 - 2002 were fantastic. The final '01 Austin vs Angle match wasn't too stellar, but other than that all the matches between the four were top flight.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Orton/Christian series:
> 
> SD: ***3/4
> OTL: ****1/4
> ...


What about CP? It was good but not great due Orton's concussion.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

What Dolph Ziggler matches are the ones to look out for? I can really only remember his SummerSlam 2009 with Mysterio and the ladder match with Cena. What do I need to watch/rewatch?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think I liked it (Cesaro/Broom) more than you (WOOLCOCK) did. The matwork wasn't great (what WWE matwork is? Legitimate question. Benoit/Finlay and Benoit/Regal, yeah. Other than that?), but it was insane how Cesaro actually manged to carry him to neat struggles which I thought was impossible. I don't remember any part of the match that dragged. You get some shitty Kofi strikes, but how long did that last (again, legit question, IDR how long it took between Cesaro going outside to leg work)? The near fall section doesn't bother me because it makes sense to the beginning of the leg work. Cesaro could early get put away a few times so he realises he needs a target and heads for that leg. Kofi's strikes are dogshit, though, yeah. No excusing that. Leg work was the real 'this is a fucking masterful carry' part of the match. That stomp on the leg was fucking ludicrous and probably one of my favourite spots ever. There's like four more in the match that rule near that level; Cesaro was just unreal with the awesome shit. The flash finish was completely genius. Didn't give shitty Kofi any chances to no sell the leg, or just get too much of his terrible offense in in general. It was just 'fuck I need a way out here' - *KICK!* 'Well, THAT worked'. Cesaro managed to control Kofi's shittiness and when the time was right the match just ends. I could see why somene would want build, but....it's Kofi Kingston build.
> 
> 
> I didn't find any Orton/Christian other than OTL *that* good. I don't even know what their second best match was, but I didn't love it. I remember the SmackDown match boring the piss out of me and being standard back and forth piles of nothing. Been since it aired, though. MITB didn't float my boat a whole lot. Agreed with WOOLCOCK on SummerSlam being a WWE propfest. Wan't TOO proppy and it wasn't a garbage match or anything, but I don't really care for those WWE-style 'hardcore' matches. OTL is really good, but I didn't think it was amazing or anything. Call me bias but I thought Orton/Henry was better.


There's been a handful of Regal matches where I've enjoyed the bulk of matwork, but typically you're correct that Benoit/Finlay & Benoit/Regal prominently feature the best matwork seen in WWE. I actually dug the matwork overall, not so much in the way of the actual holds but how unco-operative and tightly fought for everything looked. It certainly didn't look pretty or choreographed like a juniors sequence and I liked the way it established an early theme of Cesaro struggling to find a way to seize control. The middle section was just a bit too stagnant for me. Aside from two great Cesaro counters I just thought they seemed to tease possible directions and then abandon them and then get stuck in a few sequences that just didn't grab me. I thought for sure the apron spot where Kofi got his leg caught in the ropes would be the catalyst for the legwork but then 20 seconds later he hits the SOS and then they work a couple more nearfalls and a spot on the floor and I just sort of struggled to react. Actual legwork and everything that followed was sublime stuff and every bit as good as I could have anticipated. I still liked it plenty, but its definitely more through Cesaro's individual performance and the opening and closing stretch as opposed to say Del Rio/Show which I love for both performances but the match as a whole.


Got the Miz House Show & Sheamus Main Event & Smackdown matches to watch for Cesaro today, as well as the Sami Zayn rematch on NXT.




Forever Unchained said:


> What Dolph Ziggler matches are the ones to look out for? I can really only remember his SummerSlam 2009 with Mysterio and the ladder match with Cena. What do I need to watch/rewatch?


He has a great match with Masters on Superstars in 2010 (5/13?) which is maybe a top three Ziggler match ever, albeit I'm not too fond of his work so far so others who prefer his work may disagree there. The Del Rio Payback match from 6/16 this year is an absolute must, as I'd argue its his best match ever and Ziggler's career performance to date. The Bragging Rights '10 match vs Bryan gets a lot of love, albeit I don't think its as good as Bryan's best work in WWE. I'm sure people were very receptive towards Del Rio/Ziggler from Main Event this year as well.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Reliving early 2002 at the moment. Always felt like they could have done more for Jericho's title run in 2002. But, the timing of everything made it very hard.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hated Jericho in 2002 when he had the title. I just never got into his heel character and aside from a couple of matches hated pretty much everything he did in the ring during that time too (though I might be one of the only fans of his match with Austin at NWO lol). Undertaker's heel turn and hardcore title run was far, far better in every way. Then he eventually got the Undisputed title :mark:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forever Unchained said:


> What Dolph Ziggler matches are the ones to look out for? I can really only remember his SummerSlam 2009 with Mysterio and the ladder match with Cena. What do I need to watch/rewatch?


I friggin loved both Dolph & Swaggger v. Bourne/Kofi from SS11 and Dolph/Show/McIntyre/Cody from Janury 2011. The latter I'd say is the best fourway ever other than 'Final Four' unless I'm forgetting something. Dolph/Masters ruled like WOOLCOCK said. I liked the late 2011 Raw match with Punk a good bit, too. Probably the best Punk match from the last quarter of 2011.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Forgot that four way Yeah1993 alluded to, excellent stuff and a great example of how great a formula 'Show vs the world' can be. I still adore the giant ladder in the 2010 MITB match after he broke two ladders trying to climb them.

Can't recall the Dolph/Swagger vs Air Boom tag actually. Might stick that on the growing list of matches to watch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Zig Zag Paddy Swagg had a couple of super fun matches with Air Boom over a period of a couple of months. Probably the most you can possibly enjoy Kofi lol.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Watched undorgiven 2002 last night

The Un-Americans (Christian, Lance Storm, William Regal & Test) vs. Booker T, Goldust, Bubba Ray Dudley & Kane **3/4
WWE Intercontinental Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Ric Flair **
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero ****
Three-Minute Warning (w/Rico) vs. Billy & Chuck *1/2
WWE World Heavyweight Champion: Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam **1/2
WWE Women's Championship: Molly Holly vs. Trish Stratus *
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit ****1/2
WWE Championship: Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) vs. The Undertaker ***1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> *Zig Zag Paddy Swagg* had a couple of super fun matches with Air Boom over a period of a couple of months. Probably the most you can possibly enjoy Kofi lol.


Awesome.

I think I recall a match from Vengeance between them getting some strong consistent praise (probably from Yeah1993 now that I think about it) so I'll hit the series up as I love tag team wrestling and the lack of great traditional tags in the last few years is one aspect of the current product I sorely wish would change.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh shit I remember 'Zig Zag Paddy Swagg'. :mark: Certainly better than 'Bangle and Redge'. All right, maybe it's close, but 'Zig Zag Paddy Swagg' had a better chance of catching on.

Yeah, I meant tag at Vengeance and not Survivor Series. I'm pretty sure the latter doesn't even exist.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bangle and Redge was genius I tells ya.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Even Andreas Rumpisser in his most inebriated and boozehound state would disagree with you there Callamus.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Flair-Arn from Fall Brawl is like amazing. Too bad, It never gets the recognition it deserves, SMH.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

At least it isn't atrocious like 'JeriShow'. Who came up with that? Fuck I hate most of those 'mix names together' tag team names. 'ShowMiz'?? As in 'Show Biz'? HA! Great. Get the fuck out of here. 






_This is meaningful discussion._


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Even Andreas Rumpisser in his most inebriated and boozehound state would disagree with you there Callamus.


LIES!!!



Fluze said:


> Flair-Arn from Fall Brawl is like amazing. Too bad, It never gets the recognition it deserves, SMH.


Agreed. Thought it was fucking tremendous on last watch. Like, ****3/4 kind of tremendous.



Yeah1993 said:


> At least it isn't atrocious like 'JeriShow'. Who came up with that? Fuck I hate most of those 'mix names together' tag team names. 'ShowMiz'?? As in 'Show Biz'? HA! Great. Get the fuck out of here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still wish we got a HBK/Undertaker team so I could name them Dead Sexy . No ****.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Dead Sexy is fucking INCREDIBLE. You should be put in charge of naming random teams.


I remember the thread back in 2011 when people were trying to come up with a team name for Kofi & Bourne. It's like my favourite thread ever.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

HAYGUYS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I still wish we got a HBK/Undertaker team so I could name them Dead Sexy . No ****.


HOLY SHIT.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

WHAT SHOULD I WATCH HIGH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie Guerrero vs anyone b/c Eddie is the greatest.

plus Brock & Tajiri vs Edge & Mysterio b/c that match rules for only being less than eight minutes. Not to mention most of them are close to the greatest level themselves. Edge was bossy plenty in 2002 to make that statement justifiable. At least, I really dug him that year. His best.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Obfuscation said:


> Eddie Guerrero vs anyone b/c Eddie is the greatest.


Quoting this b/c why the fuck wouldn't I?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What is it about Swagger/Ziggler vs Airboom that I'm hearing? Gonna get those asap.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> What Dolph Ziggler matches are the ones to look out for? I can really only remember his SummerSlam 2009 with Mysterio and the ladder match with Cena. What do I need to watch/rewatch?


His match with Del Rio at Payback is probably his best work evah. You should watch some of his matches with Sheamus on Smackdown and The Miz on main-event. Pretty good matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I agree as well that Ziggler's work at Payback is his best ever. He played the 'underneath' character so well. 

It's amazing how a guy's best work ever could be a match where he gets almost no offense in. I had doubts about Dolph being a baby but after seeing his Payback performance all those doubts were erased. He knows how to fight from the bottom really well.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Hated Jericho in 2002 when he had the title. I just never got into his heel character and aside from a couple of matches hated pretty much everything he did in the ring during that time too (though I might be one of the only fans of his match with Austin at NWO lol). Undertaker's heel turn and hardcore title run was far, far better in every way. Then he eventually got the Undisputed title :mark:.


lol.

But I do agree that Taker had a better year. The heel run was great. His character work with Flair, Rock, Austin, Jeff, Hogan etc. Man.


Still lol at how that turn started with JR in Nov. 2001 too. Anyone have that promo by the way?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Does anyone else notice how the a lot of Kurt Angle's matches are worked exactly like Cena vs Rock II? You know, except minus out the callback portions.

Think about it: Angle does a bunch of random bs to fill time and make it seem as if there is some logical fluidity towards the finishing stretch. An un-plausible rising action as it heads towards the climax. Then once it eventually gets to said climax, Angle and whomever he happens to be working with tend to drag that out to unfathomable lengths in hitting bomb _(or submission)_ after bomb. To the point of gross over-saturation. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, which is why I said 'a lot' and not 'all', mind you. When Angle is on, he's really good. However, when he's not putting in the effort to work the specific match properly & going all _"look at all these moves & counters I'm doing; I'm phenomenal"_ he's out right terrible.

Noticing this more and more as I peel back towards his early years and not just post '03 Angle - now.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

for the guy looking for ziggler matches
for singles matches

batista raw 08
rey summerslam 09
masters superstars 10

no as high on it as others but his series with bryan from 2010 gets good reviews

punk raw 11

he has many gems from 09 and 10 with the likes of rey, jimmy wang yang (yes I laughing as well) matt hardy, so just YT or DM them

I really couldnt name a top 5 for ziggler atn


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Ziggler/Bryan Bragging Rights 2010 was great as well.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Goldust-Unamericans from SS 2002, is on like Steniers-Connection levels on good, epitome of awesomeness. ****1/4, and a heavy contender for MOTN on the specific night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DUSTIN.

Goldust had quite the underrated run during his last stint in the E'. I remember there being a Henry tag out there somewhere that I really need to check out on top of other things. STILL TRUCKING ALONG WITH THOSE HENRY MATCHES.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

feeling like watching a a brawl, sluggfest so Im giving hunter a chance

got nwo austin , hiac with Batista, rumble with foley and svs with flair lined up


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

*WrestleMania 22: Hardcore Match, Edge vs. Mick Foley. *Not the best Foley match I have seen, but it was a fine outing nonetheless.

I enjoyed the small number of creative spots in this match, including where Foley had barbed wire wrapped around his waist to use to his advantage. The crowd was decent, letting their voices be heard almost only whenever weapons were used. I was taken aback by this, considering Chicago has proven to be of the best WWE crowds worldwide. Lita played her part well, serving as an extension to Edge's "ultimate opportunist" persona. However, while the ending was a spectacular sight, it felt a bit rushed, even if the use of gasoline was being teased right from the get go. I feel like an additional 3-5 minutes would have enhanced this, especially for a match that took place at a WrestleMania.

I loved Edge's priceless reaction to having speared Foley through a flaming table. It looked very genuine, made you feel a bit concerned, and made that spear look like the greatest he's ever delivered.

WrestleMania caliber match? Absolutely. Better than the Hardcore match Foley had before that? Nah.

***3/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Wrestlemania 24 MITB Ladder Match - ***3/4*

Great match with some must see spots but nowhere near as awesome as I remember it being. Might check out a couple more later on. Funny how the only 2 guys left in WWE from this match are Punk and Jericho.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Rey Mysterio v John Morrison, Smackdown 2009 - ****

Hell of a match here, every bit as good as I remember, great pace and counters, crowds hot as expected.




Mysterio v HBK, Smackdown 2010 - ***

Fun match, nothing to get carried away about though.


Mysterio v Undertaker, Royal Rumble 2010 - ***1/2

Enjoyed seeing an angry taker with a bloody nose, real fun watch and what a hell of a last ride to finish the match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That Mysterio/Morrison match is one of my personal faves. I know people loved shitting on JoMo but I would embrace a return. His matches always entertained me despite not incorporating the structure of some of the more popular/respected workers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Mysterio-Morrison :mark:.

Can somebody tell me if the January 2006 Battle Royal w/ Angle winning the WHC is worth watching from a Henry perspective, because I have it up on my laptop at the moment. I might as well take a look at it anyways, as I remember him being pretty fucking balls to the wall in it.

I also have to get ahold of the UK Main Event this year where Henry wrestles like FOUR matches on the same show, is that worth checking out for the solo Henry awesomeness? Of course it is.

I just answered my only two questions. Disregard.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, that battle royal is worth watching. Henry is the star in that one from what I recall. Although _the_ match of that night is that awesome Benoit/Orton match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I might as well try to track down the entire episode somewhere since I need more Benoit in my life.

Same goes for Eddie, although I've watched a ton of his work over the last year. You can NEVER watch enough Mysterio/Benoit/Eddie though. If I was making a WWE exclusive "WORK-BASED" Mount Rushmore, those three would definitely be on it with MAYBE Taker. 

1. Eddie
2. Mysterio
3. Benoit
4. Taker

Yeah, that's probably how my list would go. Maybe Taker would be higher since the other three wrestled a ton outside of the E'.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Austin, Punk, Jericho, Taker & Shawn would follow the top tiers of Mysterio, Bryan, Benoit & Eddie in my list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit would be number 1 for me with Mysterio coming second. Eddie didn't really quite get the opportunity to SHINE with his work until his last three years. (WWE only) Mysterio's case is helped with 2009-2010. I also think Jericho deserves a shout-out.

Here's that full episode: (not a very promising thumbnail)


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Starz for Judgement Day '09?


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> feeling like watching a a brawl, sluggfest so Im giving hunter a chance
> 
> got nwo austin , hiac with Batista, rumble with foley and svs with flair lined up


HHH's brawl with Austin at No Mercy '99 is worth a look. It's your standard Attitude brawl with outside interferrence and either a non-finish or a screwy finish but it's fun nonetheless. Also, Hunter against Mankind from In Your House 16 is also a fun brawl. 


Thanks for the Ziggler recommendations.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Starz for Judgement Day '09?


Judgment Day doesn't really have any standout matches, but I really enjoyed the consistency of the PPV.



Punk/Umaga ****3/4*
Christian/Swagger ****1/2*
Morrison/Benjamin ****1/2*
Mysterio/Jericho ******
Batista/Orton ***1/4*
Cena/Show ****1/4*
Hardy/Edge ****3/4*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Benoit would be number 1 for me with Mysterio coming second. Eddie didn't really quite get the opportunity to SHINE with his work until his last three years. (WWE only) Mysterio's case is helped with 2009-2010. I also think Jericho deserves a shout-out.
> 
> Here's that full episode: (not a very promising thumbnail)


I knew you'd pull through .

& on the topic of Eddie not being able to be THE top guy; he's pretty much my WOTY in 2002, 2004, & 2005, while still being a top five worker in 2003. 2004 is UBER close between him and Benoit but still, I'd give the edge to Eddie in this one simply because I'd put his JD performance against Bradshaw over anything Benoit did that year, including the Mania triple threat. I can't choose between who had the better 2006 though; Benoit or Mysterio.... It's SO fucking hard for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Took me about 10 seconds to find it.  _(open tab - enter google - search "Smackdown 13 january 2006" - click on video - copy and paste - post it here)_

For 06, I'd pick Benoit because other than the Orton matches, Rey has nothing on the level of Benoit's matches with Orton, Regal and Finlay. And what does Eddie have from 2002 that's worth looking out for? I know about the RVD matches, I enjoyed the Armageddon match with Benoit as well as the Survivor Series triple threat tag. Anything else?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> That Mysterio/Morrison match is one of my personal faves. I know people loved shitting on JoMo but I would embrace a return. His matches always entertained me despite not incorporating the structure of some of the more popular/respected workers.


Would be all about that return. One of the most consistent guys in the ring from '08ish to when he left.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Are there still rumblings of him coming back?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't know.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*Smackdown 09/26/2002 - No Disqualification Match: Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero*

This is magnificent, I loved that they started it off as a normal match but started giving the crowd more and more till the point that they had them in the palm of their hands like puppets. The match starts off with a real good feeling out process as they don't wanna rush anything which was great, as their two prior matches both men came out real aggressive to start. So after the feeling out process Eddie begins to target the head, because he's been "Concussed" for a week now and you can't get over that in a week. But Edge keeps fighting him off, by working the arm they do some good back-and-forth action until Eddie hits an enzuigiri followed by a vertical suplex which only gets a two count. Eddie applies a chinlock and begins to talk shit in Spanish, Tazz translates to say that it means “I've got him in a rear chinlock.” :lmao Edge begins to fight out and starts a mini-comeback and heads up top but Eddie cuts him off and hits a beautiful superplex off the top rope but that only gets a 2. Eddie begins to work on Edge’s head with vicious elbows and forearms but gets on Edge's shoulders but Edge counters that into a hot-shot onto the ropes and then clotheslines him to the floor. Edge gets a ladder to a pop. He goes to hit Eddie with the ladder but he ducks and Edge accidentally KILLS! The ref Mike Sparks with the ladder. I'm not sure why you needed a ref bump in a street fight, Eddie gets a chair and waffles Edge with it across the back a few times then heads top and goes for the Frog Splash but Edge moves and Eddie eats mat as we go to a commercial. Late in the match Edge escapes the Sleeper and hits a face plant for 2. He then heads up top but Eddie hits a hurancanrana off the top rope, and gets a two-count; Edge then reverses a second hurancanrana into a powerbomb, and now brings the ladder in again. Eddie dropkicks the ladder back into Edge. Which allows Eddie to now brings in another ladder and Euro uppercuts Edge down onto the ladder in the bump, the sound of that was SICK! Eddie now stacks another ladder on Edge and hits the TOP CON HILO ON TWO LADDERS! AWESOME! But that only gets a 2 count. Eddie sets up a ladder and gets on the top rope and on the top of the ladder. Edge climbs up the other side, and they begin to punch each other. Eddie delivers a sit out power bomb from the top of the ladder for a 2 count; man that near-fall was epic. Edge somehow rebounds and backdrops Eddie onto the ladder in the corner, just crazy. The match would end like a minute after that when Edge now sets up a ladder in the opposite corner, but Eddie comeback with him on the top but Edge gets him to the ropes and then hits a TORNADO EDGE-O-CUTION OFF THE LADDER and that's enough to get the win. Edge celebrates and goes to the backstage leaving Eddie lying in the ring; the referee helps Eddie to his feet where he receives a standing ovation from the crowd. Another one of my personal favorite matches of the 2002 year. ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No DQ match is good. I wouldn't call it great in the slightest. Something about WWE gimmick matches are very hit or miss. The workers tend to excel much, much more in a more "traditional" setting. That's for damn sure.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched hhh/austin nwo for the first time today. Good, just felt like a wwe standard brawl and the word generic comes to mind


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So Raw has been boring the shit out of me and forced me to turn off my stream. I decided to go back to my Orton project and rewatched this match the week before Vengeance 2004 where he defends the IC title against Chris Jericho. Even better than I remember it being. Exactly how a crowd should be, firmly behind the face and booing the heel plus electric for every minute of it. Lots of great back and forth and a display of how good their chemistry can be. ★★★½-¾ for this. Their best match and would put it a fair bit ahead of Armageddon 07 or any other TV matches they've had.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> watched hhh/austin nwo for the first time today. Good, just felt like a wwe standard brawl and the word generic comes to mind


(Y)

That's standard for the company and Austin vs HHH matches in general. Those two never clicked as anything overly special for me. Lots of Attitude Era brawling and it all goes around in a circle. The No Mercy '99 match feels like it will never end.

-------------

RAW tonight was fine. One can say forgettable and I wouldn't argue. Nothing to note except for another good Cena vs Del Rio match, another good Henry promo & THEY'RE COMING. :mark: @ the ending. It's becoming real.

Personally I got a kick out of the crowd being so pro-Kane; that's always fun. Not to mention the Cesaro gravy train continues with MITB on the horizon -  - & DOLPH rolling on with the fans behind him. Good stuff there.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

My only real issue with Raw was Bryan and Jericho not having matches. That Miz/Ryback match was abysmal as well but so is everything else they do.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm a little confused on the booking of Miz/Ryback.

Crowd was very pro Colter. I like that team, by the way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Ryback ups and disappears following MITB, then it'll make sense. Doubt that so WTF is WWE doing to him atm?

Team Colter isn't a hard team to root for among Americans. Think about it. :hmm: _(not to mention the talent all three possess are well worth praising in of itself.)_


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

Edge's control segment at RR 2006 against Cena, has to be one of the best I've ever seen. It actually had my undivided attention.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Starz for Judgement Day '09?


Christian/Swagger - ***1/2
Morrison/Benjamin ***1/2
Mysterio/Jericho - ***3/4
Edge/Hardy - ***1/2

Umaga/Punk - **1/2
Batista/Orton - **1/4
Cena/Show - ** (definitely worst match on the card)

Was a good, solid PPV, with no truly awful matches but nothing breached the tier of amazing either. Featured the worst matches of the Christian/Swagger & Mysterio/Jericho series (and Edge/Hardy's ladder match was better than this bout) but all 3 are still really good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/ADR - ***1/2.

JD 2009 was solid, yeah. Rey/Jericho was awesome.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/ADR from last night-*** and ** for the Punk/Axel tag match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Show & Punker vs Umaga were great matches.

Christian vs Swagger kind of sucked given the quality they were working off of prior. It's very average to say the least.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Show sucked when compared to their other 09 matches on TV. Simplistic isn't always good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only match the Judgment Day bout doesn't top is their one from Smackdown in Feb. Which happens to be Cena vs Show's best clash. Hardly an insult. Cena & Show gave a simple formula life; something a lot can't do.

I'd wager to say Cena vs Show makes my top ten list of favorites from a WWE PPVs in 2009. You're talking to the wrong guy here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Their Raw '09 match is better too imo. Hell I found the WM 25 Triple Threat w/Edge better. JD just didn't click to me. Different tastes, indeed.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Obfuscation said:


> I'd wager to say Cena vs Show makes my top ten list of favorites from a WWE PPVs in 2009.















> You're talking to the wrong guy here.


The VERY wrong guy. :hayley3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As it always is.

Their RAW match was good, I'd gladly take JD over it. Got more time to be something stronger if you ask me. Nothing wrong with a 7 minute sprint of course.

Truth be told, I don't remember the Submission match very well. I know it was long, although I didn't dislike it. Thought it was solid. Then again, I've only seen it once. As with the majority of that event minus the great Jericho vs Mysterio No Holds Barred Match. Extreme Rules 2009 if anyone wasn't sure which event I was speaking of.

---------

From what I remember of the Hardy vs Edge ladder match, haribo, I thought it was pretty bad. :hayley3 (now you're REALLY out of the frame...)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Axel vs. PTP had no business being as fun as it was. Love Titus. unk2 also did his job by being the most over guy on the roster.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Obfuscation said:


> From what I remember of the Hardy vs Edge ladder match, haribo, I thought it was pretty bad.


IIRC I thought it was atrocious. And hell I may have watched it when I actually had tolerance for Edge. I'd probably harpoon my TV if I watched it now, tbhayley.


EDIT - titus mothafuckin' o'neil. I love that dude.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Axel vs. PTP had no business being as fun as it was. Love Titus. unk2 also did his job by being the most over guy on the roster.


I was hoping it would have worked out the way it did. Otherwise, why give the PTP the week's build behind 'em? Glad it ended up being a decent little TV with some good exposure for the team. Doesn't hurt when Punker is on the opposing side. That's for sure.

Titus is still over with the fans too. Awesome.



Yeah1993 said:


> IIRC I thought it was atrocious. And hell I may have watched it when I actually had tolerance for Edge. I'd probably harpoon my TV if I watched it now, tbhayley.
> 
> 
> EDIT - titus mothafuckin' o'neil. I love that dude.


When I checked it out about two years ago my bro kept telling me how awesome it was. Yet all I found it to be was a poor display of ladder spots. I actually think Edge is pretty awful in singles ladders match now that I look at it. Don't think I care for a single one he was in. And his list of opponents are guys I love too: Christian, Jeff Hardy, John Cena, & motherflippin Undertaker. Not to say I don't like Edge himself, but good grief. From his performance to his opponents, it's not good. 

Wait, forgot I like Edge vs Matt Hardy. Matt Hardy worked his magic. Why am I not surprised considering it was at the end of their molten feud?

btw, I watched half of Night of Champions 2008 today. Do you remember Matt Hardy vs Chavo very well? b/c on paper I kept thinking how you'll probably love a match like that. _(yeah, it really did come into my head and I chuckled. sue me._ ) Truth be told, it was fairly average on the hold. I was letdown, but I still liked it. If that makes sense.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I have no recollection of Hardy/Chavo, but yeah, I'd probably like it ten times more than anybody else who watched it.  I'll include PPVs in my 'I am finally watching 2008 ECW' thingy whenever that happens, so I can watch stuff like that.


As far as Edge in ladders I did like the Edge/Flair TLC. At least I think I did. It's been a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was still really good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ha. Knew it would be something like that. ECW 2008 - post-draft _(aka Summer, Fall, & Winter)_ that show was SO good.

Well crap in a hat. My brain slipped on Edge vs Flair. Yeah, I'm a fan of that one too. Really good match with a great Flair performance.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I see a lot of people out there tend to hate on Christian/Shelton from TLC 09. I don't mind it too much.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I like World Greatest Tag Team-The Hardyz Ladder from Vengeance/ONS? 2007, a lot, just a bunch of mindless fun, with no sense of structure or building to spots, and a prime example as to why everyone was injured in that year, but the rare downtime, inflictive spots and overall fun of the match heighten it in quality and production of enjoyment. ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm one of 'em. :hayley1

Terrible contest. I hate the majority of that event, tbhayley. Bad show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And then you compare the 09 TLC event with the 2012 one. Goddamn, dat improvement.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Undertaker 2006 TV Collection is on XWT :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> And then you compare the 09 TLC event with the 2012 one. Goddamn, dat improvement.


I'd say any of the post '09 events fit. I like 2010, 2011, & 2012. Fun shows.



Cleavage said:


> Undertaker 2006 TV Collection is on XWT :mark:


omgomgomgomg :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

XWT!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What are your Top 5 PPV's since 2010?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched the main event from last night just now. Pretty good match actually and probably the best from Cena since that Punk match a few months ago. Some good action and great counters plus Cena's Crossbody was awesome! And based on this little sample, I'm liking face Ziggler. Something about him standing on the turnbuckle and smiling on his way out made me laugh. :lol

★★★¼

Other than this and maybe the opening segment, I hated Raw last night.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> What are your Top 5 PPV's since 2010?


MITB '11
Extreme Rules '12
WM 26
Extreme Rules '11
Summerslam '11

Might have to think about it a little more but I'm pretty sure this would be my answer.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Undertaker Complete 2006 TV Collection. Oh shit. I love you, XWT.

:mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I'm the same as Brye but my order is:

1) Extreme Rules 2012
2) Money In The Bank 2011
3) Summerslam 2011
4) Extreme Rules 2011
5) Wrestlemania 26


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Gonna rewatch Taker-Angle from SD 2003, in a few. I'm pumped, had it at ****3/4 on last watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hardy/edge ladder is doggyshit :lmao
*
Undertaker vs HHH xxvii*
So the streak dvd is probably the most watched for me on netflix and decided to give 27 another watch. Not watching 28 any time soon because Ive watched it more than another other match in the last year and a half. Anyway 27 is odd to me because it has it dull moments but your sucked in.The action can be dull at points but the storytelling is spot on. I noticed something on this watch, b4 the false finishes, the crowd is completely silent and you can hear a pin drop. All in all I found myself enjoying it and its probably hunter's 2nd best match imo

****1/2


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm gonna start my Undertaker 2006 TV Collection "project". I'm gonna drop some ratings later on and then i'll be back to watch some greatness (you know, Orton).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Watched the main event from last night just now. Pretty good match actually and probably the best from Cena since that Punk match a few months ago. Some good action and great counters plus Cena's Crossbody was awesome! And based on this little sample, I'm liking face Ziggler. Something about him standing on the turnbuckle and smiling on his way out made me laugh. :lol
> 
> ★★★¼
> 
> Other than this and maybe the opening segment, I hated Raw last night.


Was just gonna ask if there was anything from last night's Raw that I should watch. Answers my question nicely. Thanks.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

ATF said:


> I see a lot of people out there tend to hate on Christian/Shelton from TLC 09. I don't mind it too much.


The stoppage for blood ruined it but I really like the match. Shelton was always fun to watch when a ladder was involved and Christian post-TNA was better than Christian pre-TNA.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Little late on this, but yes the Hardy/Edge Ladder match is shit. Didn't feel any importance to it whatsoever, sloppy spots, and a shitty ending. I know it was somewhat creative but really Edge could've gotten out of there pretty easily. The only thing I enjoyed from it was the mid air twist of fate off of the spear attempt.



ATF said:


> What are your Top 5 PPV's since 2010?


In no order, just off of memory.

Extreme Rules 2012 (this is definitely #1)
Extreme Rules 2011
Money in the Bank 2011
Summerslam 2011
Wrestlemania 28 or Elimination Chamber 2013 (minority choice)

Nothing's really jumping out at me from 2010, but I haven't seen a whole lot and haven't watched ANYTHING from Mania 26 since it aired...


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Top 5 ppvs since 2010: 

Money in the bank 2011
TLC 2012
Summerslam 2011
Extreme Rules 2012
Wrestlemania 28


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Watched the main event from last night just now. Pretty good match actually and probably the best from Cena since that Punk match a few months ago. Some good action and great counters plus Cena's Crossbody was awesome! And based on this little sample, I'm liking face Ziggler. Something about him standing on the turnbuckle and smiling on his way out made me laugh. :lol
> 
> ★★★¼
> 
> Other than this and maybe the opening segment, I hated Raw last night.


Pretty much this. Same rating for the match and same overall thoughts on the show (though I did like the little backstage Punk/Heyman/Axel segment, which did clear up that Punk's big problem isn't necessarily with Heyman, but Axel). Oh, and the Punk/Axel vs. PTP tag was alright.

Actually come to think of it, I did like the little Cesaro/Rhodes match as well. Didn't get enough time really but the match was good and interesting considering the heel vs. heel dynamic (though we have gotten quite a few of them this year so far... Barrett/Fandango, Barrett/Axel twice, and if you count it, the Axel portion of the tag match from last night). But yeah, finish was pretty great as well. **1/2 for that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

COREY, have you watched that RVD/Orton match I posted a week or so ago?

---------------

Just watched Orton vs HHH from Royal Rumble and it's donned on me that as a face at that time, Orton used punches excessively. His cage match with Flair consisted of pretty much nothing other than punches and chops for the most part. The RR match is actually good only let down by an extremely slow finish that takes far too long. Every time I've just been like "Just fucking finish this already" with all the slow movements and pointless ref bumps even though the hammer was not even used.

Now I'm onto the Fatal Four Way main event which is Backlash 07 with Sheamus replacing HBK.

---------------

Top 5 PPVs from 2010 onwards:

ER 12
MITB 11
ER 11
WM28
Honestly nothing that comes to mind... maybe EC 13


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> COREY, have you watched that RVD/Orton match I posted a week or so ago?
> 
> Honestly nothing that comes to mind... maybe EC 13


Nah, totally forgot about it honestly. haha. There's so much wrestling on my computer and on dvd that I've been just watching nothing because I don't know what to choose.  Repost the link (think it was dailymotion?) and I'll bookmark it. I did watch an RVD match the other day against Jericho so I'm somewhat in the mood for some more of Mr. Monday Night.

Someone else likes Elimination Chamber as much as me? :hb


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit PPV & TV Matches


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xzazaa_wwe-main-event-4-24-13-full-show-hq_sport#.UdMR4_ksnjU

Mark Henry Vs The Usos/Santino Marella/The Great Khali ~ ONE MILLION STARS


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Nah, totally forgot about it honestly. haha. There's so much wrestling on my computer and on dvd that I've been just watching nothing because I don't know what to choose.  Repost the link (think it was dailymotion?) and I'll bookmark it. I did watch an RVD match the other day against Jericho so I'm somewhat in the mood for some more of Mr. Monday Night.
> 
> Someone else likes Elimination Chamber as much as me? :hb


I need to rewatch both the chamber and 6 man tag but for the most part, I enjoyed that PPV when it happened. And main event on rewatch was worse but not as atrocious as I thought it might be.

Here's the link. I rewatched their Armageddon match the day after and it actually held up well and I might rank it above this match after all. Both stand at ★★★¾ now.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2010 is such a blur to me post Mania and bar Nexus. I can barely remember a thing about it. Didn't bother watching any of the matches on Raw this week tbh. It was a quick show to say the least. I did enjoy the opener however and they have me hyped for next week with the Wyatt Family. Damn that was an awesome way to end the show. 

:mark: :mark: :mark:

Mania 28
MITB 11
ER 12
ER 13

Those would be my favourite recent PPV in no order. I'm probably in the minority with the last pick but I really enjoyed ER this year.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

MTIB 2011
ER 2012
WM28 
Payback 2013
TLC 2012

Probably something like that.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

ATF said:


> What are your Top 5 PPV's since 2010?


Same as everyone else. In no particular order...

* WrestleMania 26
* Extreme Rules '11
* Money in the Bank '11
* SummerSlam '11
* Extreme Rules '12

Honorable mention goes to TLC '12. Might be a minority but I really dug Elimination Chamber and Payback from this year.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not as high on Extreme Rules 2011 as most are, still a pretty good show though in all honesty. My top five would probably go a little something like this;

1. Extreme Rules 2012
2. Money in the Bank 2011
3. Summerslam 2011
4. Wrestlemania XXVI
5. ???

No fucking idea what would round out the top five. Money in the Bank 2010? I REALLY enjoy alot of mid to late 2011 shows as well, but they aren't exactly ELITE shows like the other four are, so it's actually a tricky question to answer. Probably how I feel about Wrestlemania XXIX these days, which I'm probably going to buy and re-watch today.

I actually REALLY LIKE XXIX for the following reasons;

- Rock Loses
- Punk Vs Taker being a classic
- Shield Match & Brock-HHH being REALLY FUCKING GREAT
- MARK HENRY
- ROCK FUCKING LOSES
- REDEMPTION

:cena3


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

top 5 ppv since 10
no order

wm 28
mitb 11
ex 12
ss 11
???
agree with KOK i really dugg mid to late 2011 and really miss it. There were meaning to ppv back then


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2010 is when I stopped buying every PPV just because and started getting selective with the ones I chose to watch. I used to order every PPV every month. Now they'll get 4 out of me per year if they're lucky.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Summerslam shall be bought by me for PUNK VS BROCK. Money in the Bank I'll probably just HD stream the hell out of it and hook it up to my TV like I've been doing for a really, really long time now. 

The last five PPVs I've actually purchased;

- Over the Limit 2012
- Wrestlemania XXVIII
- TLC 2011
- Summerslam 2011
- One Night Stand 2008 :lol.

PPVs I'vs attempted to buy in that time period but couldn't for whatever reason were MITB 2011, Extreme Rules 2012, & Night of Champions 2012. I DON'T BUY PPVS LIVE VERY OFTEN.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'll get Summerslam since it looks set to be a great card from top to bottom. Would have bought it for BORK anyways. After that though I might not get another one until the Rumble. If by some miracle they start cranking out must see PPV or actually bother with Survivor Series, then I may get more but that doesn't seem likely. Luckily I get some on Sky Sports that are essentially free, like MITB. Funny how they wanted us to pay for Payback yet they give us MITB free. Silly Box Office.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's always SOMETHING awesome when it comes to Summerslam every year that makes it perhaps the second "must buy" show next to Mania (excluding Mania XXIX, which despite being a good show had me collapsing with how uncreatively booked the card was). 

2012: HHH-BROCK ONCE IN A LIFETIME lol)
2011: Punk-Cena II
2010: WWE VS NEXUS
2009: Punk-Hardy TLC
2008: Taker-Edge HIAC, Cena-Batista I

Rumble's no longer a must-buy to me due to realizing how predictable it actually is (World Title has changed hands TWICE since 2002 and that's it, Rumble match being predictable as ever these days), coupled with the drop in quality over the last few Rumble shows.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If Trips/Brock wasn't on the SS card last year I wouldn't have got it, same goes for ER this year and last year with Brock/Cena. If Rock wasn't on the Survivor Series card in 2011 I wouldn't have got it. If Brock wasn't on the SS card this year I'd have my doubts about getting it tbh. I can find enjoyment in a lot of the new guys but not enough to part with my money to see just them on a PPV. Without a Brock/Rock/Trips/Taker on there these days, it's essentially a no go for me, either those guys or a cracking storyline that has my interest (Nexus, MITB 11 etc). I always buy the Rumble because I'm Rumble mark and Mania is Mania.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have actually never "brought" a ppv b4. growing up my cousin brought like two a year and we would have a party with his friends. I come from the "parents hate wrestling and think its gay and fake" so I never allowed to. I cant count how many times Ive heard the " your watching oiled men" joke before. So yea never have or will buy a ppv


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

In 2007, Orton vs Cena was a fresh match and they finally gave it away in proper fashion plus HHH's return. 2006 had Hogan vs Orton and not much else, 2005 was just an awesome card plus HBK vs Hogan.

In 2011, I was looking forward towards both the title matches. In the end, one ended up being awesome (WHC) and the other I enjoyed at first only to get bored by the next time I checked it out.

I have never bought a PPV, though. And that's not gonna change any time soon.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I think Im honestly the only wrestling fan in my town tbh. Its really looked down upon here so Ill never by a ppv or clothing gear


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> yea I think Im honestly the only wrestling fan in my town tbh. Its really looked down upon here so Ill never by a ppv or clothing gear


The way I see it, if you're ashamed to be a wrestling fan, you shouldn't be one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fandango said:


> The way I see it, if you're ashamed to be a wrestling fan, y*ou shouldn't be one*.


:harden ouch 

nah not ashamed at all, My parent didnt allow me to buy ppv so thats why I didnt buy them and I can stream them for free now.

Reason I dont buy wwe shirt is because Im not five years old

It funny because I can say things like " styling and proflin and to be the man you got to beat the man" and etc and absolute nobody has a clue where its from and they think I come up with it :lol


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm not ashamed to be a wrestling fan but at the same time, I try to not get into argument with non-wrestling fans who make the ignorant comments like "it's gay and fake and only for kids". Don't have time for people like that.

It's not like we watch it because we think it's real :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> It's not like we watch it because we think it's real :lol


It's real to me dammit 

Watching bits and pieces of ER2012:

Sheamus/Bryan - ****1/2 - Still really like this.
Cena/Lesnar - ****3/4 - Still the same rating for me, some may think its high but i just love the match, fucking love Brock, AWESOME :mark:










Ill watch Punk/Jericho later...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I feel like went you argue with non fans it makes it worse


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still probably my fave part of the match, along with Brock licking the blood lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Non wrestling fans make me laugh sometimes. "LOL JEW WATCH TEH WRASSLING ITZ FAKE. AM GONNA GO WATCH A MOVIE".

Because for some reason despite 99.9% of everything on TV being fake, wrestling is somehow worse despite being more real than 99.8% of the other fake stuff .


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

*WrestleMania 21: Battle of WWE Tag Team Champions - Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio *****

Excellent way to kick off WrestleMania 21. It was an expectedly fast paced match filled with great counters, thoughtful spots, and clever submission holds. This was prior to Eddie's heel turn that year, and Rey and Eddie made the face versus face formula work very nicely. Although their Halloween Havoc match firmly stands as their magnum opus, it felt awesome to see both being able to hold it down at a WrestleMania, knowing how well they work together.

I wonder how Rey Mysterio must have felt having to constantly adjust his mask with haste after almost every move performed...


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

One of my favorite things about Rey/ Eddie that year was how they the had awesome, and steady build to the heel turn.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Cena/Lesnar - ****3/4 - Still the same rating for me, some may think its high but i just love the match, fucking love Brock, AWESOME :mark:


Think I'll watch this later. I absolutely adored it when watching live and thought zomg so close to 5* but on a rewatch a month or two later I couldn't even finish it because it was boring me tbh. The ref. stoppings are so fucking dumb. I didn't make it to the point in that gif though and I must see it again.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Smackdown 10/03/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio*

THIS FUCKIN' RULES, Rey just allows Benoit to beat the shit out of him, with everything he's got. But knowing Rey he would speed it up with quickness and high-flying to piss off Benoit. They do this EPIC! Spot where Benoit whips Rey into the turnbuckle then delivers a nasty press slam into a suplex. He then begins to destroy Reys back with Suplexes to weaken him up for submissions, Benoit uses a axe choke, IDK the actually know the name but it's when you crosses the opponents hand across the neck and have your knees in his back. Rey's mini-comebacks were great too, but Benoit would keep cutting him off with even more violentness. Rey does actually get the full comeback in and Benoit bumps around for it like a champ. The match ends when Rey goes for a Mysterio attempts the 619. Benoit catches him and delivers a shoulder breaker. Benoit gets on the top rope and delivers a head butt. Benoit covers but Mysterio kicks out. Mysterio hits a leg drop on Benoit. Mysterio hits the 619. Angle comes out and hit Benoit. Mysterio covers Benoit for the win. Post-Match: Angle & Benoit brawl and Angle gives Benoit the ankle lock. Benoit locks in the cross face and Angle taps out. Refs come out to break up the fight. ***3/4


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Cover artwork from The Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden










Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/best-of-wwe-msg-dvd-blu-ray-cover/45756/


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena shouldn't be on the cover.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Has anyone seen the LMS match between Undertaker and Khali on Smackdown? Good God, that was terrible. Khali is just awful.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

That's by far his best match imo.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

That's not really saying much.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Cover artwork from The Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. Didn't know about this one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bryan D. said:


> Has anyone seen the LMS match between Undertaker and Khali on Smackdown? Good God, that was terrible. Khali is just awful.


I'd easily call it a good match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that khail/taker match is awsome bro
---------------------
Just watched that taker/festus(gallows) sd match guy on here were raving about. It reminds me why I love pro-wrestling just two giants knocking each others heads off


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Really? Wow. For some reason, i hated the match. Seriously. Can't like it.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Speaking of Taker/Khali. Just revisited the Punjabi Prison match w/ Show. Big LOL. So silly.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> What are your Top 5 PPV's since 2010?


Money in the Bank 2011
Extreme Rules 2012
TLC 2011
Summerslam 2011
Night of Champions 2012


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Khali vs Taker Last Man Standing is ★★★ for me. The best Khali match ever which may not be saying much but it is a decent match and one of the handful at most Khali matches that I'd ever recommend.

And I can't believe it but I actually found an Orton/Barrett match that's actually... _good_. Never thought that'd be possible.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Top five Khali matches, GO!

:side:

Edit: 
Khali/Cena - JD '07
Khali/Taker - SD '06 LMS
Khali/Taker - JD '06
Khali/Cena - ONS '07
Khali/Sheamus - SD '11


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched some hbk/razor

Their Michigan raw one from 93 is excellent. The wm 10 ladder holds up insanely well to, love that match and the best ladder match IMO


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker - Last Man Standing
Cena - Judgment Day
Batista - No Mercy
Orton - Smackdown from 2011
Sheamus - Smackdown in 2011

Not as hard as I thought it would be except I had to borrow the last one from Brye.  Can't go beyond 5, honestly.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Taker - Last Man Standing
> Cena - Judgment Day
> Batista - No Mercy
> Orton - Smackdown from 2011
> ...


The Sheamus one is actually decent, if I recall. It was right after Sheamus turned face and I remember it as being a fun six minute match or so.

For some reason I just can't get into the Batista one.

And I forgot, #1 has to be Khali/Edge in the over the top rope match where Khali accidentally leaves the ring at one point and completely fucks up the match. :lmao






And for Sheamus/Khali, I think this is it. (Y)


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Batista/Mysterio/Khali from Unforgiven 07 was pretty decent


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I reckon Triple H vs Khali from Summerslam 2008 is pretty good.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I was thinking today how many great matches were at No Way Out. You could have a pretty good set with these matches. Something like...


Hardys V Edge & Christian NWO 2000
HHH V Cactus Jack NWO 2000
Dudleys V Edge & Christian V Brothers of Destruction NWO 2001
Angle V Rock NWO 2001
RVD V Goldust NWO 2002
Rock V Undertaker NWO 2002
Jericho V Jeff Hardy NWO 2003
Eddie G V Brock NWO 2004 (a match that never gets old)
JBL V Big Show NWO 2005
Taker V Angle NWO 2006 (one of my fave matches ever....wish this had been at Mania that year)
Cena & HBK V Taker & Batista NWO 2007
Flair V Mr. Kennedy NWO 2008
Orton V Shane McMahon NWO 2009
Sheamus V Dolph NWO 2012
Punk V Bryan V Kane 2012


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I was thinking today how many great matches were at No Way Out. You could have a pretty good set with these matches. Something like...
> 
> 
> Hardys V Edge & Christian NWO 2000
> ...


Backlash could also have an amazing set.

Rock/Trips - '00
Benoit/Angle - '01
BOD vs Power Trip - '01
Guerrero/RVD - '02
Angle/Edge - '02
Team Angle/Eddie & Chavo - '03
Lesnar/Cena - '03
Orton/Cactus - '04
Benjamin/Flair - '04
Benoit/HBK/HHH - '04
Benjamin/Jericho - '05
Edge/Benoit - '05
RVD/Benjamin - '06
Cena/Trips/Edge - '06
Hardyz vs Murdoch/Cade - '07
Taker/Batista - '07
Cena/Edge/Orton/HBK - '07
HBK/Batista - '08
Taker/Edge - '08
Christian/Swagger - '09
Jericho/Steamboat - '09
Legacy/Batista, Trips & Shane - '09
Edge/Cena - '09


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brye said:


> Backlash could also have an amazing set.
> 
> Rock/Trips - '00
> Benoit/Angle - '01
> ...


Totally agree. Im pretty sure Hogan/HHH was at BL 2002 as well? I could be wrong but Im too lazy to look it up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Totally agree. Im pretty sure Hogan/HHH was at BL 2002 as well? I could be wrong but Im too lazy to look it up.


Yeah, and it's one of the worst main event matches of this entire century.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah, and it's one of the worst main event matches of this entire century.


It can still look like a damn clinic compared to Cena/Miz WM 27 though. :side:

I didn't really care for the Hogan '02-'03 run. I liked him in '05 and I've liked some of the stuff from his prime but I've never been all that high on Hogan. I don't dislike him as much as most though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brye said:


> It can still look like a damn clinic compared to Cena/Miz WM 27 though. :side:
> 
> I didn't really care for the Hogan '02-'03 run. I liked him in '05 and I've liked some of the stuff from his prime but I've never been all that high on Hogan. I don't dislike him as much as most though.


Which looks like a clinic compared to their Over The Limit travesty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan in 2002 was awesome if you ask me. Pardon the match vs Triple H, the bulk of his bouts were buckets of fun. Fans bought into it, WWE didn't strap the championship to him very long, & he put guys over. I look back at it with fond memories.

------------

*WWE Night of Champions 2008​*
1) *WWE Tag Team Championship*
John Morrison & Mike Mizanin(c) vs Finlay & Hornswoggle ~ ****1/4*


2) *WWE United States Championship*
Matt Hardy(c) vs Chavo Guerrero Jr. ~ ***1/4*


3) *ECW Championship * - *Triple Threat Match*
Kane(c) vs Big Show vs Mark Henry ~ ***1/4*


4) *World Tag Team Championship*
Bob Holly & Cody Rhodes(c) vs Ted Dibiase Jr. ~ *N/R*


5) *WWE Intercontinental Championship*
Chris Jericho(c) vs Kofi Kingston ~ *1/2**


6) *WWE Women's Championship*
Mickie James(c) vs Katie Lea Burchill ~ **1/2*


7) *WWE World Heavyweight Championship*
Edge(c) vs Batista ~ ****


8) *WWE Championship*
Triple H(c) vs John Cena ~ ***3/4*​

~ I had fonder memories of this show back when I saw it in 2008. It's not dreadful or anything, far from it actually. It's just nothing too special as a whole with the exception of a blistering crowd. I mean they made the atmosphere for just about every match great. Love when the fans bite on all aspects of a PPV. That's how it always should be.

~ Opener stole the show for me. I kind of expected it to when it was even better than I remember. Don't sleep on it b/c of who is involved; Finlay being the partner made it all the more logical. Not to mention the openings Hornswoggle found to take it to Morrison & Miz on the offense looked belivable, instead of some poor babyface domination dreck. Good match with good performances by all involved. Morrison & Miz duo was quality.

~ US Championship was a bit too average, which was a shame. I know those two had a better match or two on ECW later in the year. This was fine though. I liked it, yet I thought there were a few portions where these two didn't quite "click" as well as I would've hoped. ECW Championship ended up being fun like I thought, although the first half of the match was pretty bad. Kane got injured leaving Show & Henry lost at what to do next or if he could return. Once Kane came back into the fray, it was fun fun fun city from there. A FANTASTIC finish to the match too. :mark:

~ World Tag Team Championship was a segment more than a match. A darn effective one too. Rhodes needed that. Ted's music rocked.

~ Intercontinental Championship, ugh. Good lord could Jericho's work have been any more uninteresting? The entire match was Jericho beating down Kofi, not taking him seriously, and all that crap. Only Kofi's brief bit at the end where he tried to come back on the offense wasn't good, and didn't even look as if Jericho was in trouble of losing. This was an 11 minute squash in all reality. Not like a Cesaro vs Kofi squash, this was honestly like Jericho was just dragging things out b/c he could. Then Shawn showed up, match ends, Jericho beats up Shawn and you forgot there was even a championship in the mix. This was a dreadful time for the Intercontinental Division. WWE didn't care to use it.

~ Women's was whatever. Thanks to Mickie James not working well off of the effective arm work done by Katie Lea the whole match. Finish made Lea look like an absolute chump. Nothing special at the end, but far from bad which is generally common among WWE divas matches. Mickie's work was already on the decline here.

~ World Championship match was...weird. It starts off with you thinking "wow, this crowd is HOT for this. I'm pumped." then it begins and you're quickly brought down to reality in remembering how hit and miss both guys were at the time. Especially Batista. Damn that dude was an enigma with if you're going to get a good match or a bad match from him. I want to like him - you know from his babyface days and hoping he pulls through - then he comes out with haphazard offense and it's like I'm constantly reminded why I was never a fan till he turned heel in '09. Edge wasn't special here. He subsequently targets the neck and proceeds to slap on some headlocks to kill time. Bad move. Sucked the life out of the match until it became schmoz-ville. Ending is straight up out of WCW with Vickie & her faction going ultra dirtyville on Batista. Eh. It can be fun with the hot crowd and cheesy ball "entertaining" finish, yeah, but this wasn't a good match in all honesty. These two never quite clicked.

~ Ok, main event still remains stronger than the meh original match from WrestleMania. There was some good counter v. counter display as a early going story and I liked that approach. General Triple H work in this was crap though; per usual. Cena finally stepped out of the shadows of doing nothing too noteworthy once he began to work on Trips injured leg. After that portion passed it became a bomb throwing display. Eventually seen by Trips hitting a second pedigree and that's that. It's fine. The counter story + some good work by Cena made me like it. Crowd was immense during it too. I don't let that effect my opinion on a match ever, only it deserves a plug as you can't watch this match and feel too cold. If only Triple H wasn't poor, this probably would have been very good.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I remember you praising Cena & Trips' NOC match, gone down unfortunately, as most do. Can you review Summerslam 2004?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It has. Been needing to see it ever since I saw this all the way back on the air date. You can only go by what's in your head until you refresh things.

SummerSlam '04? I can pump one of those out. Seen that show so many times my impression it is just about everlasting.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Yay. Curiosity is in the JBL-Taker & Benoit-Orton match, also have a feeling you'll like the Hardy-Kane love brawl.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll let the mystery remain until it's posted. :hayley1


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The suspense is killing me, and It's only been a few minutes since my request.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Cover artwork from The Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Should be a good set, but that cover is shit, just a quick paint throwaway job by the looks of it. 

And for all the fucking legends that im sure are on it, they just had to put Johnny boy on the cover next to Bruno and Hogan. :argh:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Let us not be surprised at WWE putting their biggest name on the cover.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Another videos by that YouTube guy...*











Impressive how much overrated some of those are.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Anyone seen Orton's opponent for Smackdown this week? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm more excited for 



Spoiler: SD



Dolph vs McIntyre



personally.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

McIntyre is awesome as heel, especially loved his series with Finlay back in 2009. They were like really good fights in really short timeframes.


----------



## Scavo (Jun 26, 2011)

Ryback vs. John Cena (Last Man Standing) *1/4

Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio (Payback): ***1/2

CM Punk vs. John Cena (RAW 2/25/13) ***1/2


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

*Undertaker 2006 TV Collection:*

Smackdown (_February, 10_) Undertaker vs. Mark Henry - ***1/2*
Smackdown (_March, 3_) World Heavyweight Championship - Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle - *****1/4*
Undertaker & Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry & MNM - *****
Smackdown (_March, 15_) Undertaker & Kane vs. Mr. Kennedy & MVP - ****
Smackdown (_April, 7_) Undertaker vs. Mark Henry - **1/2*
Smackdown (_August, 4_) Undertaker vs. Booker T - ***1/4*
Smackdown (_August, 18_) Last Man Standing - Undertaker vs. The Great Khali - ****
Smackdown (_September, 22_) Undertaker vs. Booker T - ***3/4*
Raw (_October, 9_) Undertaker vs. John Cena - ***1/4*
Smackdown (_October, 20_) Undertaker vs. Gregory Helms - *1/4**(_too short_)
Smackdown (_November, 3_) Undertaker & Kane vs. Mr. Kennedy & MVP - ****1/2*
Smackdown (_December, 1_) Undertaker vs. MVP - **1/2*
Smackdown (_December, 22_) Undertaker & Kane vs. Finlay & Booker T - ***1/4*
Tribute to the Troops (_December, 25_) - Undertaker vs. Johnny Nitro - ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

In disagreement with the Henry matches & the BOD vs Finlay/Booker tag. I'd rank those _(or at least one of the Henry matches, believe the April one)_ as great.

The tag made the Kane set. A wonderful tag team display right there.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Well, Taker/Henry matches were too short. One had like 5 minutes or less.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

February one gets over ten minutes IIRC and is probably one of my favourite matches ever. Wish it happened on PPV so more people would know about it. April one I've always said looked to be on track to being just as good before Khali debuted. B/c everyone needed that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Cover artwork from The Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden
> Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/best-of-wwe-msg-dvd-blu-ray-cover/45756/


Terrible cover, looks like some fan made shit.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Starz for Cena/Orton NWO 08?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

****1/4 and their best match together. Although, BP is really good aswell.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Really excited for Orton's match on Smackdown this week. :mark:



Bryan D. said:


> Starz for Cena/Orton NWO 08?


★★★★¼-½. Don't know which one to choose. ½ feels a bit too high but then I sometimes think it deserves it.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk...-edge-smackdown-10-10-2002_sport#.UdRCw_nVDoK

OH YEAH!


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

So I'm gonna bust your balls in, Austin-Angle Summerslam 2001 or Shawn-Mankind Mindgames 1996?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I liked HBK/Mankind more but Austin/Angle is a masterpiece too


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's a thought provoking question for you. 

I'm going to go with Shawn-Foley though, as it's the perfect clash of Foley being completely insane, and Shawn needing to get a little dirt on his hands and put it all on the line to defeat the maniac. The ending is very (AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!) frustrating, but you know what? A ton of endings are, so I don't really factor it in as being THAT big of a deal. Both are extremely, extremely close however, within maybe five spots of one another on my top 30 matches ever list.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah, and it's one of the worst main event matches of this entire century.


I don't disagree with that. Didn't say it was awesome haha.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shawn/foley is a masterpiece and may be top 10 in company history

IDK guys Im contemplating giving hbk/razor wm X the full five like big dave. What do you guys think of it ?


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I have it ****1/4 it just doesn't hold up like it use to.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

If a Dolph best of was released today based on his body of work up to today (NOT counting Spirit Squad) give me like 15-20 matches that would go on it? This will be really tough I bet.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ not for me :lol

no order

payback del rio
nov 11 punk
br 10 dbryan
ss 09 Rey
debut 08 batista
rr 12 punk
superstar masters 2010
dolph and swagger vs air boom vengeance 11
dolph vs kofi IC
dolph vs sheamus me
dolph vs del rio me
mitb 2010
dolph vs cena tlc ( vs #1 guy in wwe)
dolph vs kofi superstars
dolph vs orton 8/11
ss 12 vs Jericho

he has some good sd and superstar matches with the likes of matt hardy, rey, christian


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> IDK guys Im contemplating giving hbk/razor wm X the full five like big dave. What do you guys think of it ?


I would've in '94 when it happened but it just hasn't aged well. -** nowadays


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

bigbuxxx said:


> I would've in '94 when it happened but it just hasn't aged well. -** nowadays


I wouldn't put it THAT low, but my opinion of it has taken a HUGE nosedive. It's just one of those matches that hasn't exactly aged that well. As a matter of fact, has there ever been another match that has been as negatively impacted by time as this one? The only one I can think of off the top of my head may be Savage-Steamboat (but a ton of people still have it at five stars I suppose), and the obvious Bret-Shawn Ironman.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

you probably missed my edit . wow i still think steamboat/savage is one of the greatest of all time. just a wonderful story that comes full circle and has aged very very well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ill settle with ****3/4 but it ages insanely well for me. Savage/steamboat doesn't at all, and I had it at ***** for the longest time. I watched the macho dvd the other day and its extremely basic to me nowadays

I think it being the blueprint for later ladder matches, the first ever big one, Shawn's first show stealing performance a nd it being WRESTLEMANIA appeals to me alot


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I'll give Razor vs Shawn a ★★★★1/2. Still an awesome ladder match between the two Kliq buddies but we've seen better (like Jericho/Benoit's ladder match at Royal Rumble 2001 for example) which is why I don't consider it that much of a classic.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Here are matches that will be on the Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden.

Match for the Undisputed Heavyweight Wrestling Championship
WWE Champion, Bob Backlund vs. NWA Champion, Harley Race
22nd September, 1980

Intercontinental Championship Match
Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. “Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase
29th December, 1991

Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon
WrestleMania X – 20th March, 1994

#1 Contender Triple Threat Match
Triple H vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho
Raw – 7th August, 2000

John Cena Returns in the Royal Rumble Match
Royal Rumble – 27th January, 2008

source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/several-matches-wwe-madison-square-garden-dvd/45803/


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just started No Way Out 2001, will throw out ratings as and when


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This Orton list is coming along very nicely. 

Most TV matches are done but now I have some PPV matches from the past few years to go through and fuck, a lot of them are so boring. I almost wanna turn off this match with Kofi from TLC because it's so boring. Then I have some MIZ matches to go through. God give me strength!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Here are matches that will be on the Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden.
> 
> Match for the Undisputed Heavyweight Wrestling Championship
> WWE Champion, Bob Backlund vs. NWA Champion, Harley Race
> ...


Lookin good so far in my books, don't know anything about that RAW Triple Threat but I bet it's full of interference & fun shenanigans.  I really just wish they would include the entire 2008 Rumble, maybe as a blu ray extra. It pisses me off when they add Rumbles JIP, a la Sheamus in 2012, Cena in '08, and Hogan in ... 91? Just give me the whole damn thing! I think Flair & Michaels (95) are the only ones that are included in full.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*No Way Out 2001:*

_Raven vs Big Show (Hardcore Match)_ - ** - Erm, Billy Gunn won the title, then Raven won it, then Big Show won it. :lol

_Chris Jericho vs Xpac vs Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero (Intercontinental Title)_ - ***3/4 - Really fun match.

_Trish Status vs Stephanie McMahon_ - ***** - Bollocks to it, its Trish and Steph  Plus the bottom spank :

_Triple H vs. Steve Austin (3 Stages Of Hell)_ - ****1/2 - Im always up and down on this match, but on this watch, i loved it. 
And the pre-match video package is still one of The BEST IMO. It was the perfect match that the feud needed, it told the perfect story looking back on it, yeah im back to loving it lol. Id even consider it ****3/4, im not sure, i know its a marmite match. 

_Steven Richards (w/Ivory) vs. Jerry Lawler (w/The Kat)_ - *

_The Dudley Boyz vs Kane & Undertaker vs Edge & Christian (Tables Match)_ - *** - Would love to get a GIF of Bubba slipping on that chair  :lmao

_Kurt Angle vs. The Rock_ - **** Really good match IMHO, ill have to rewatch their NM one as i think i prefer that one.


----------



## christastrophe (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm currently downloading WM 29, how big of a disappointment am I in for?


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

christastrophe said:


> I'm currently downloading WM 29, how big of a disappointment am I in for?


It was a solid show. Punk/Taker was awesome, and so was Trips/BORK and the Shield's match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michaels vs Razor WM X ladder match holds up for me. Still prefer it to SummerSlam '95.

And yeah, WM 29 is awesome pardon the main event. You're in for a good show.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Watching No Mercy 2002 now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fluze said:


> So I'm gonna bust your balls in, Austin-Angle Summerslam 2001 or Shawn-Mankind Mindgames 1996?


Austin/Angle might be top 50 WWF match for me. Michaels/Mankind might be #1.

I've never bought into 'Savage/Steamboat doesn't age well' hype. We live in an era where you have boring back-and-forth Chris Jericho matches being highly praised, and the same people that highly praise that will knock Savage/Steamboat for being 'outdated'. I don't get it. If the same match happened today, with all the circumstances surrounding it that it did in 1987 (back-feud and all that SHIZ), I don't see why it wouldn't get a good reaction. I've said it before; probably the only difference would be you'd get retards trying to ruin the match with 'THISISAWESOME' (do you have ANY fucking idea how much I hate that? I might hate it more than 'WUT?'). I'm pretty sure Michaels/Razor would hold up for me too. Not five stars or anything because I pretty much think nothing is five stars, but I wouldn't be surprised if I still thought it was a great match at all. I like it mostly because it has the benefit of being the first (televised WWF) ladder match. I don't think a whole lot of people expected those ladders to be used as weapons, really. Everyone knew it was legal, but, the rule was 'you gotta knock your opponent out so you can climb the ladder and grab the belt'. So things start getting violent and you know this shit is PERSONAL. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's definitely a lot better than shitty propfest MITB matches with no feud history and people ruining their chances at winning by superplexing each other off of the ladder (while other people are still on other ladders and can grab the belt easier) or an awful, awful dive train for the sake of a big spot. Honestly I absolutely DO see why people thought the first Michaels/Razor was kinda 'showy' and 'big spotty' itself, and maybe I'll see it more on next watch, but every time I watched it I've thought at least it felt like two guys trying to win with the tools they had. I don't see how most 2000s ladder match thinking of 'hey! Crowd! Check this mark out moment out!' is better or 'holds the test of time' more. I haven't seen SummerSlam 95 in like five years, but I remember Razor dodging the ladder baseball slide that Michaels hit in the WMX match being an amazing 'call back'. And leg work. And, of course, the Michaels hissy fit.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Everyone has a Price, even an American Dragon (Daniel Bryan vs. Ted DiBiase Jr.)
-These guys put together a solid string of matches in 2010-2011. Back then reviews said that Bryan carried DiBiase and that’s not the case at all IMO; Ted is a good wrestler and these two had surprisingly good chemistry. They both worked the basics in their matches, but in a fashion that made their matches compelling without having to rely on flashiness. Their Survivor Series match was unsurprisingly the best of their series however the Smackdown 2011 match was up there too, their RAW 11/22 match didn’t get enough time. In hindsight, I’m” surprised WWE didn’t stretch the program to WrestleMania XXVII and I didn’t even check out their tags. No wonder they got paired so much in that time frame, good stuff but make sure you don’t focus too much on Maryse if you check these matches out* :lol

Daniel Bryan vs. Ted DiBiase Jr. (11.1.2010)-**
Daniel Bryan vs. Ted DiBiase Jr. (11.21.2010)-***+
Daniel Bryan vs. Ted DiBiase Jr. (11.22.2010)-*
Daniel Bryan vs. Ted DiBiase Jr. (2.24.2011)-***
Daniel Bryan vs. Ted DiBiase Jr. (6.3.2011)-***
Daniel Bryan vs. Ted DiBiase Jr. (7.1.2011)-***


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea i hate mitb matches and spot fests in general so we will see how ' RAW ALL-STARS" goes, I love hbk/razor just on the fact it was simple and they seem to actually try and have a match and not depend on the OMGZ spots we see today in ladder matches. I actually have never seen ss95 ladder but I heard its similar to wm X.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Something about an old match having to hold up with "today's standards" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Is there someone out there who could really try and say a tag match involving the Rockers was fine, but didn't hold up b/c it wasn't as hyper fast paced as a match you could see today? Shoot me, if so.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cant say Ive heard that Cody, but I have heard ppl say "hbk/razor wm X doesn't hold up because its to slow, and simple"


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> yea i hate mitb matches and spot fests in general so we will see how ' RAW ALL-STARS" goes, I love hbk/razor just on the fact it was simple and they seem to actually try and have a match and not depend on the OMGZ spots we see today in ladder matches. I actually have never seen ss95 ladder but I heard its similar to wm X.


I'm watching MITB b/c HENRY. The ladder matches are pretty much filled with good-really good wrestlers, but, the actual match-ups were dumb as shit. The WWE one literally has NO heels and the WHC ones literally has NO faces. Yeah, uh, something's wrong there. You couldn't mix it up a *little*? Now they have a stupid 'face against face turning on face and possibly ruining Bryan's fuckin momentum again' angle with Bryan/Orton/Kane. At least Bryan is splitting up with Kane and can do his own thing, I guess, but how many people here trust the WWE with Bryan's push? I won't get my hopes up. Look what they did with the Shield, they're already on the pre-show. Then again I guess you could they put them on the pre-show so people will actual use their probably sucky fuckin app to watch somebody interesting. Went off track, but point is - the MITB matches have good workers but all faces in one match and all heels in another match is no good. They could be good, I mean I kind of don't like multi-man ladder matches but there are really good ones, so IDK, I just think it's stooopid.



Obfuscation said:


> Something about an old match having to hold up with "today's standards" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
> 
> Is there someone out there who could really try and say a tag match involving the Rockers was fine, but didn't hold up b/c it wasn't as hyper fast paced as a match you could see today? Shoot me, if so.


In a few years people will think the Joe/Punk trilogy doesn't age well because it isn't worked the Davey Richards Way. 

'Punk looks tired as shit. This doesn't age well.'
'I know, he couldn't even get up from being kicked in the face'
'If the match happened today, it'd be given **3/4 by President Meltzer and become completely lost in the shuffle of great ROH classics like Richards/Elgin VIII'

8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> In a few years people will think the Joe/Punk trilogy doesn't age well because it isn't worked the Davey Richards Way.
> 
> 'Punk looks tired as shit. This doesn't age well.'
> 'I know, he couldn't even get up from being kicked in the face'
> ...


The day Davey finally "retires" from rasslin to do MMA shit full time is the day this will happen. To commemorate a career of shitty high WORKRATE performances.

May god have mercy on us all.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Just finished Sandow/Christian from Main Event tonight. Great match. Marked for the cart-wheel in the middle of the match :lmao ***1/2.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWE No Mercy 2002

WWE World Tag Team Champions: Chris Jericho & Christian vs. Booker T & Goldust ***1/4
Torrie Wilson vs. Dawn Marie *
Rob Van Dam vs. Ric Flair *3/4
WWE Cruiserweight Championship: Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) vs. Tajiri ***1/4
Winner Take All Match - WWE World Heavyweight Champion Triple H vs. WWE Intercontinental Champion Kane *1/2
WWE Tag Team Championships (Tournament Finals): Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio ****3/4
Women's Championship: Trish Stratus vs. Victoria *
Hell in a Cell Match for the WWE Championship: The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) ****3/4

Smackdown still owning PPV's


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought Smackdown & RAW split the bill with that show. Largely thanks to HIAC being the topper and then the RAW tag team match not far behind at #2.

WWE Tag Team Championship match can kind of fuck off.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> In a few years people will think the Joe/Punk trilogy doesn't age well because it isn't worked the Davey Richards Way.
> 
> 'Punk looks tired as shit. This doesn't age well.'
> 'I know, he couldn't even get up from being kicked in the face'
> ...


maybe you're saying this as hyperbole but imo and lots of others the Flair/Steamboat trilogy is still incredible and in many years so will the Joe/Punk trilogy (i was not a fan of the first match though). I realize that the ladder thing is the same, as in it's not ramped up 1 million degrees but that match really does suffer from aging with so many better ladder matches but I remember back in '94 watching on PPV and being blown away and watching the tape I recorded it on a few times a day for a while.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

If Michaels v Razor WrestleMania X ladder doesn'r get ***** then which one on one ladder matches do? (aside from maybe Jericho v Benoit). It's crazy that people say 'Mania X ladder match 'doesn't hold up' today - compared to what exactly? With each ladder match year after year that the WWE has put on, suspension of disbelief has been harder and harder (not that there haven't been great ladder matches in the past 10-12 years)


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Stars for Cena/Trips/Orton at Wrestlemania 24? I liked it.

rton2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moving off of those snowflakes. My words sum up my thoughts better & I'll go back to those when it comes to strictly MOTYC type deals to put a period at the end of the statement, if you will. As for the triple threat match from WM 24, it's pretty good. I've always gotten a kick out of it. The rematch from Night of Champions 2009 is very bad; the original at 24 benefited from the smaller time frame. Nothing wrong with a traditional standard WWE type work if it manages to entertain. Been better & been worse matches from the particular type. 

A big problem I have with wrestling in America is how a lot of workers/bookers or what have you think "more time" = better match. When I couldn't disagree more. A lot of times wrestlers can reach their pinnacle while working in a match that gets a fair amount of time and stretches to the boarders of where it should go. Not going overboard and killing any potential positives the match may have had. A certain Tyler Black match from 2010 comes to mind for one brisk example of quite a bit I could bring up.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Forever Unchained said:


> If Michaels v Razor WrestleMania X ladder doesn'r get ***** then which one on one ladder matches do? (aside from maybe Jericho v Benoit). It's crazy that people say 'Mania X ladder match 'doesn't hold up' today - compared to what exactly? With each ladder match year after year that the WWE has put on, suspension of disbelief has been harder and harder (not that there haven't been great ladder matches in the past 10-12 years)


well it's definitely not better than that match you mentioned. it's not that it needs to be compared to anything. i find it downright dull now which is not what a 5* match is.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/razor wm 10 is the best ladder match to date ****3/4 Im right your wrong rton2 end of discussion

henry/show vengeance 11 :mark: words cannot describe the epic and awesomeness of this bout. two giants mashing and bashing

atm I think only punk/cena mitb and maybe orton/christian otl were better from 2011


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Favorite WWE ladder match will always have to be Jericho vs Benoit from Rumble '01. It's honestly perfect for what they wanted to accomplish.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> maybe you're saying this as hyperbole but imo and lots of others the Flair/Steamboat trilogy is still incredible and in many years so will the Joe/Punk trilogy (i was not a fan of the first match though). I realize that the ladder thing is the same, as in it's not ramped up 1 million degrees but that match really does suffer from aging with so many better ladder matches but I remember back in '94 watching on PPV and being blown away and watching the tape I recorded it on a few times a day for a while.


Oh yeah I was being jokey. I actually watched the three Joe/Punks recently and loved them. THOUGHTS:



Spoiler: o



Samoa Joe v. CM Punk (World Title Classic 6/12/04)
Holds up way, way better than I thought it would. In a time where I’m all about looking up the short TV matches and find myself zoning out of most things that are long in the tooth, I was completely invested in at least 40 or 45 of these 60 minutes. The first 30-35 minutes made up a seriously excellent match. I felt they worked a little too evenly in some areas and had some mediocre sub-lucha exchanges, but all in all they predominately stuck with the theme of Punk benefitting from the mat and Joe benefitting from the strikes. Punk staying on the rest-holds was key for his own survival. He can’t out power Joe. He knows he can’t out power Joe. The fans know he can’t out power Joe. Joe knows he can’t out power Joe. I could see someone questioning why, if he can’t out power Joe, he would continue to get in a test-of-strength lock up. I thought it worked really well. I didn’t see Punk entering those kinds of strength contests to actually try to match power with Joe; I saw them as Punk trying to keep Joe away from striking. Joe’s #1 was striking. Joe can’t throw a strike if his hands are locked up, and whenever Punk got the right opportunity he’d get out of the lock up, hit Joe with something hard and usually go to a headlock. That headlock was everything. Joe could throw strikes, and Punk would obviously be affected, but that headlock could get him out of a jam. Joe’s a big dude who Punk can’t out power, so he needs to wear him down, maybe with the hopes of pulling a rope-a-dope so he can capitalise on fatigue later. Honestly the first and only time I saw this match four years ago I hated the interaction with that Punk fan at ringside. Whenever I’d see a mention of this match, I’d think of that. And honestly it was as annoying as I remembering it being, even if not as long. Joe rolls to the outside which, as the commentators pointed out, is rare. He seldom needs breathing time like that and is usually a wrecking machine, but Punk had got to him. Then he and Punk interact with that dude and I hate it. I may not have hated it in a different match, but I was having a ball with this and it felt out of line with everything. I suppose it’s a minor complaint, though. Anyway, Punk going for the ole kick and sprinting like a chickenshit when Joe came toward him was terrific. The post triple-ole kicks (that Joe hit) where Joe hits his punch/chop combo and post-face-wash running boot that Punk survived/avoided before was a great touch. I said I was invested in around 40 or 45 minutes of this, which means there were a good 15 or so I didn’t care much for, and yeah, there was. I guess ‘didn’t care for’ isn’t the right term since I suppose I’d consider it ‘decent’ at worst, but I need to be sucked in to the fullest to really throw a vote at this, and there were a few minutes where it felt like not much was happening. I didn’t like both guys going back to rest holds after the part where Joe fucks Punk up. Punk had the headlock ‘rest hold’ for bunches of the first thirty because squeezing a dude’s head is a good way to tire him out. It was smart, and a smart rest hold is a good rest hold. Once Joe tried to beat the shit out of Punk, it really felt like they should have gone straight to trying to finish the match instead of laying in a sloppy Indian deathlock or a random leg scissor. I can’t totally blame them because they have an hour to go through, but if I’m not really invested in what I’m watching, well, then, yeah. I’m not invested in what I’m watching. The actual finish run was really good. Top rope Pepsi Plunge where Punk’s damaged knee causes him to roll the outside was awesome, though, I have to say, I really thought he should have gone for the cover once he got back in the ring. Gabe tried to sell it as Joe trying to get back up, but I think “didn’t get pinfall because too much time wasted” is better than “didn’t get the pinfall because too much time wasted and didn’t even bother trying”. The last minute was OK, even if a little anti-climactic. It’d be hard to know exactly how and when to finish a broadway; the timing is rarely perfect. I can’t vote for this because the bar is too high and other matches will get in its way, but most of it was really, really, really enjoyable and I’ll have no gripes if it winds up in the overall top 100.

-----

Joe v. Punk II – Yeah this is a lock. I wasn’t sure how it’d hold up when we started the poll, and even if I was more convinced after I thought so highly of Joe/Punk I, I wasn’t completely confident it was a lock. This was only a few months after the first match, but I totally see Punk as a more confident and high-tier challenger now. The first match kind of felt like a guy who was pushing above his weight, but managed to push hard enough. This felt like a guy who was legitimately at Samoa Joe’s level. I thought the opening stuff (which is like ten minutes in a match like this…I guess I don’t really mean ‘opening’, then) was completely brilliant. Punk now knows Joe can last an hour, so he doesn’t start headlocking and keeping holds on, that is until he realises HE can’t go an hour if a fat Samoan dude is pounding him. I love how the audience almost made a meme out the headlock, they went mad for it like the way a current crowd would for Fandango’s music. The sequences between headlocks were really awesome. Punk would get Joe in an awkward position and Joe would get legitimately pissed off, eventually rolling to the outside and not interacting with a fan stupidly but instead kicking the guardrail in frustration. Colt Cabana had recently pinned Joe without a roll up, so Punk tries a few of them to get this out of the way, too. One of my favourite things of the entire match was how Joe was getting in cheap-shot-like moves and Punk didn’t even react to them. He didn’t let Hot Head CM Punk get in the way of Smart Wrestler CM Punk, because if he did and started striking, he’d be entering a battle that Joe would win. He needed this win, especially in Chi-Town. Punk gets mauled on a couple of big spots, like the suplex on the concrete and the SWING into the barricade. He looked completely exhausted, too, and I totally bought big spot like a tope as a ditch effort to get things back in his favour. There was stuff I might have thought would have been some pretty stupid shit if this was Marufuji v. KENTA, but Punk’s selling was top notch and it actually felt like the ‘I’M NOT FUCKING STAYING DOWN THIS IS IMPORTANT TO ME’ epic crap that people usually fail to really hammer home. The fact he collapsed in a pile afterwards helped, and he looked utterly out of it even when throwing elbows. Arm work was a nice touch, even if I wished Joe had sold it more effectively. Can’t say it felt like a no-sell, though; Joe had gotten back on top and Punk couldn’t continue injuring it. When he WAS working on the arm, he was using it as leverage to get the headlock back on, and that was outstanding. Finish run was super, I loved the pepsi plunge struggle, and the fact he didn’t get to hit it at all is a great piece for Joe/Punk III to pick up. Tons of exciting near falls without a hint of going overboard, and the final muscle buster right before the count adds another layer to the story. I feel bad for not mentioning so many things about this, and it wasn’t a long hour at all. Y’all know about it now, anyway. Lock. Might hit my top half, which I guess means I could be the low voter on it, but, yeah, it’s a lock.

----

I don't think I liked Joe/Punk III as much either of the first two (I sure as hell didn't like it as much as the second), but I can't complain about it. Joe knowing Punk can go an hour TWICE and having enough of this headlock bullshit and making Punk bleed was what needed to happen. I liked all of Punk's comebacks, and he was willing to kill himself to get it done. What a fucking splat he took on the floor from the dropkick. That moonsault where he pretty much kneed Joe in the head looked rough as well. I had never heard about how this match ends, and I thought Punk's arm being counted out the first time was the actual way Joe won. Totally bought it. Joe heeling it up and using the ropes on a pinfall was something I didn't expect, either. Is there any reason neither the pepsi plunge nor the muscle buster was used even once? Seemed to me like the the first two matches were basically BEGGING a third to use it. Great finish run, but I was disappointed they didn't answer the 'what if?' during it.



I really don't think there have been many (if any) ladder matches better than the first Razor/Michaels. I can see why someone would if they like the TLC and MITB kind of thing, but that's not my jib at all. Hell, I don't really like ladder matches in general. I wasn't that big on Benoit/Jericho last time I watched it. I didn't think it wasn't really good or anything, but it was my first watch where I wasn't blown away by it. I probably think Sheamus/Morrison is better at this point.

I should do a WWF/E ladder match list thing this year for the hell of it.



CODY RODGERS said:


> Moving off of those snowflakes. My words sum up my thoughts better & I'll go back to those when it comes to strictly MOTYC type deals to put a period at the end of the statement, if you will.


I'm actually a little surprised people still give ratings under ***. I have no problem with it, duh (and why would I), but rating matches *3/4 and * feels like, y'now....no point. If I was, for whatever reason, forced to go back into star ratings (weirdest bomb threat ever), I would just call matches under *** 'Under ***'. Deciding whether a match is ***1/4 or ***1/2...well, honestly, I sooort of know what the difference would be. Deciding whether a match is ** or **1/4....I don't fuckin care.

I'd probably have a separate label for short matches that are good, too. Like, there aren't a whole lot of two minute matches that are legit three stars, but I couldn't rate them on level (calling them all 'Under ***') with long, awful main events either. S'confusing and partly why the snowflakes have been a not-me thing in 3+ years. I'm glad I have them noted on paper when I did do them, though; gives me a chance to look at what I liked and didn't like and stuff; it's nice comparison. Angle/Michaels WM at ****? Certainly don't feel that way any more. Ki/Danielson RRC at ****1/2? I couldn't even finish it a few weeks ago. Rude/Warrior SummerSlam at *3/4? The fuck was wrong with me!? Sarita v. Alissa Flash at **1/4? Who!? Where and why the fuck did I even watch that?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm actually a little surprised people still give ratings under ***. I have no problem with it, duh (and why would I), but rating matches *3/4 and * feels like, y'now....no point. If I was, for whatever reason, forced to go back into star ratings (weirdest bomb threat ever), I would just call matches under *** 'Under ***'. Deciding whether a match is ***1/4 or ***1/2...well, honestly, I sooort of know what the difference would be. Deciding whether a match is ** or **1/4....I don't fuckin care.
> 
> I'd probably have a separate label for short matches that are good, too. Like, there aren't a whole lot of two minute matches that are legit three stars, but I couldn't rate them on level (calling them all 'Under ***') with long, awful main events either. S'confusing and partly why the snowflakes have been a not-me thing in 3+ years. I'm glad I have them noted on paper when I did do them, though; gives me a chance to look at what I liked and didn't like and stuff; it's nice comparison. Angle/Michaels WM at ****? Certainly don't feel that way any more. Ki/Danielson RRC at ****1/2? I couldn't even finish it a few weeks ago. Rude/Warrior SummerSlam at *3/4? The fuck was wrong with me!? Sarita v. Alissa Flash at **1/4? Who!? Where and why the fuck did I even watch that?


If you ask some, apparently I like to give out DUDs to bouts I loathe, so there's my pseudo-answer on the subject. You raise good points and it's kind of dawned on me as I've been watching all the crap from this year. Crap meaning stuff, and that doesn't even include 2013 only "this year" implies every bit of rasslin I've viewed down the pike. NOC '08 kind of sealed the deal for me. b/c while I didn't hate Cena and the counter story in the main event, I really thought Triple H was a pile of garbage and didn't feel like watching the match even. Meanwhile Matt Hardy vs Chavo was fine & something I can see myself easily watching again, yet by some weird continuous logic en route of the "stars" the main event looked to be higher in my opinion overall than the US Championship match. Which it isn't. Rather not contradict myself like that again so I've decided fuck it. My spouting of words can easily detail a thought on a match more than a simple key on a keyboard could as it is. Only put them up for a reference since the beginning, but meh. I'm over it now.

Understandable to a degree. I'd do so on a scale just to show how it goes with my personal gripe/point ^ where I hate so many matches that over-extend time meanwhile you have some matches that hardly get any that are a TON better. Lots on paper and I'm going to keep them to - like I said - eventually reference myself for when it's talked upon. I'll be like "oh that's around the ***+ range" IE I dug it and thought it was a pretty slick bout. Go from there. Isn't rocket science or anything that has to be thought of too strongly. That would be pointless.

Haha, last bit was awesome. Angle vs Benoit a classic meanwhile this Tajiri match is only in the ** range? That's not me. Btw, I remember that Alissa Flash vs Sarita match being a wallop of a contest for only sub-five minutes. Then again, those two dames rule the world so I wasn't surprised.  _(TNA Impact circa 2009 - can't believe you watched something from TNA, tbf.)_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ thats why I got off it, it s hard for me to differentiate them. I dont understannd when ppl say a match was good but only give it **3/4. I see **, *3/4, *1/2 and go wtf


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's flawed. That's known. All your personal nature if you feel like complying with the intricate notions of what differs within your opinion. Sometimes "good" & "bad" just speak many more volumes. Ideally, the best understanding is when a match is top notch if you ask me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I think I'm going off the stars as well TBH.

Too much convolution.

:brock


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you should, I was thinking about going back to ** to rating mitb but Ive enjoying my viewing since cody told me to go off them a couple weeks ago. It doesnt make sense and it really hard for me to decide whats a ***1/2 vs ***1/4 or ****1/4 vs ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Now everyone can enjoy Great Muta matches more without the need for slapping a rating next to it. 

This was my plan all along.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

CODY RODGERS said:


> If you ask some, apparently I like to give out DUDs to bouts I loathe, so there's my pseudo-answer on the subject. You raise good points and it's kind of dawned on me as I've been watching all the crap from this year. Crap meaning stuff, and that doesn't even include 2013 only "this year" implies every bit of rasslin I've viewed down the pike. NOC '08 kind of sealed the deal for me. b/c while I didn't hate Cena and the counter story in the main event, I really thought Triple H was a pile of garbage and didn't feel like watching the match even. Meanwhile Matt Hardy vs Chavo was fine & something I can see myself easily watching again, yet by some weird continuous logic en route of the "stars" the main event looked to be higher in my opinion overall than the US Championship match. Which it isn't. Rather not contradict myself like that again so I've decided fuck it. My spouting of words can easily detail a thought on a match more than a simple key on a keyboard could as it is. Only put them up for a reference since the beginning, but meh. I'm over it now.
> 
> Understandable to a degree. I'd do so on a scale just to show how it goes with my personal gripe/point ^ where I hate so many matches that over-extend time meanwhile you have some matches that hardly get any that are a TON better. Lots on paper and I'm going to keep them to - like I said - eventually reference myself for when it's talked upon. I'll be like "oh that's around the ***+ range" IE I dug it and thought it was a pretty slick bout. Go from there. Isn't rocket science or anything that has to be thought of too strongly. That would be pointless.


I kind of used to be, what's the word, kind of...obligated? I don't know. What I mean is I felt kind of 'obligated' to give a match that was the bigger main event and all that a higher rating than the fun US title match that I actually enjoyed more. Not every main event, obviously (b/c some sucked like everything HHH did in 2003....actually I gave the Armageddon 3-way ***3/4 :lmao. WHY, FOOL?), but, well, you know what I mean. Sort of like the Chavo/Hardy against Cena/HHH thing. You've said the US tile match was one you liked a lot more than Trip/Cena and it was still rated lower. That kind of thing. 'Liked more' and 'better' are two different things, but I'd rather run my mouth (keyboard) like a mental patient than hit ctrl8 a few times to hammer the point home I'm trying to get across. Maybe one match was probably technically overall 'better', but...I didn't like it as much and it actually had more faults. Then again I think the first Bryan/Henry that doesn't go ten minutes is legitimately overall better than every Angle/Benoit ever so IDK what my point is. 

I think that's why I didn't want to give the snowflakes any more, mostly - by giving one match *** and another ***1/4, you're basically saying one match is better than the other. There is obviously nothing wrong with that and I totally applaud it, but I couldn't handle that shit. I can really suck ass at deciding which match is better than which (despite my want to make lists like a stoopidhead). 'Wait, is this ***1/4 really better than this **3/4 match?' Drove me nuts. Unless I'm specifically ranking matches (like the 2000s list right now, and THAT fucking shit is hard to rank), I don't really want to decide what's better than what. 



CODY RODGERS said:


> Btw, I remember that Alissa Flash vs Sarita match being a wallop of a contest for only sub-five minutes. Then again, those two dames rule the world so I wasn't surprised.  _(TNA Impact circa 2009 - can't believe you watched something from TNA, tbf.)_


I have the date here as 7/16/09. So it's actually good? Nice. I have no idea why I watched it back then. None. 2009 was kind of the period where I was like 'I will try TNA and ROH stuff', but, well, why THAT of all things? I didn't watch Joe/Styles, I didn't watch Harris/Storm, I didn't watch AMW/XXX, yet I felt the need to check that out. Odd.


I remember when 'star ratings' was actually a part of this thread title.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

CODY RODGERS said:


> Now everyone can enjoy Great Muta matches more without the need for slapping a rating next to it.
> 
> This was my plan all along.


Greatoo MUUTAAAAHHHH!!! (need a Muta smiley!)

I'll probably never hop off the star ratings thing because it's just so much easier for me to differentiate exactly _how _much I liked a match. I could say Match A and Match B are both awesome or really damn good or something like that but assigning one a ***1/2 and another ****1/4 would obviously be able to tell you that one is much better. Idk, it's just something I've pretty much grown up with and plan to stick with.

On the topic of Ladder matches, I still think Razor/HBK is great but I have to put it on a somewhat different pedestal. It's fucking amazing by '94 standards considering the spots they were doing, but obviously by 2013 standards it's basic Ladder match occurrences. I still think it's in the ****-****1/2 range but as time goes on more and more people will likely get turned off by it due to the spots having to get more and more dangerous and more and more thought out.

Favorite singles WWE Ladder match? Benoit vs. Jericho and I don't think it's even close. I've probably seen that match like ten times and it never gets old.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I kind of used to be, what's the word, kind of...obligated? I don't know. What I mean is I felt kind of 'obligated' to give a match that was the bigger main event and all that a higher rating than the fun US title match that I actually enjoyed more. Not every main event, obviously (b/c some sucked like everything HHH did in 2003....actually I gave the Armageddon 3-way ***3/4 :lmao. WHY, FOOL?), but, well, you know what I mean. Sort of like the Chavo/Hardy against Cena/HHH thing. You've said the US tile match was one you liked a lot more than Trip/Cena and it was still rated lower. That kind of thing. 'Liked more' and 'better' are two different things, but I'd rather run my mouth (keyboard) like a mental patient than hit ctrl8 a few times to hammer the point home I'm trying to get across. Maybe one match was probably technically overall 'better', but...I didn't like it as much and it actually had more faults. Then again I think the first Bryan/Henry that doesn't go ten minutes is legitimately overall better than every Angle/Benoit ever so IDK what my point is.
> 
> I think that's why I didn't want to give the snowflakes any more, mostly - by giving one match *** and another ***1/4, you're basically saying one match is better than the other. There is obviously nothing wrong with that and I totally applaud it, but I couldn't handle that shit. I can really suck ass at deciding which match is better than which (despite my want to make lists like a stoopidhead). 'Wait, is this ***1/4 really better than this **3/4 match?' Drove me nuts. Unless I'm specifically ranking matches (like the 2000s list right now, and THAT fucking shit is hard to rank), I don't really want to decide what's better than what.


It never was like that for me, but I can see the sensibility behind that when you're first starting to chuck out your opinions on what you see. Oh it's a main event, it HAS to be the toast of the card. Hardly. How many WCW PPVs was that the opposite of? Too many. Phrasing of "like more" & "better" is spot on. Along the lines of where the near stupidity of it all comes from. I'm sure anyone who rates via this system is certain that it all coincides with their opinion. You know Meltzer knows what he likes - workrate - and what he dislikes - fatties or big dudes clubberin - so naturally that all tends to look the same. You know where he stands and why that got the fancy shit put next to it that it did. When your opinion starts to derail all b/c it doesn't quite add up to the equivalent of what you rated it, well then that's probably when you should cut the shit. No point in putting out two different opinions leaving you to question what in the world you were even running your mouth - in a matter of ways - about.

Splitting hairs portion never quite crossed the line with me unless it came down to what made a match top notch. Like I can LOVE a match and then give it "***3/4". Then see another that I really liked, but not as much as the previous meanwhile that earns itself the "****". It gets you to think why isn't the other one higher and then you're like ahhh screw it. I'm just going to rank them by personal feel and not by some grading curve. Cut the middle man (thing) out.




Yeah1993 said:


> I have the date here as 7/16/09. So it's actually good? Nice. I have no idea why I watched it back then. None. 2009 was kind of the period where I was like 'I will try TNA and ROH stuff', but, well, why THAT of all things? I didn't watch Joe/Styles, I didn't watch Harris/Storm, I didn't watch AMW/XXX, yet I felt the need to check that out. Odd.
> 
> 
> I remember when 'star ratings' was actually a part of this thread title.


Been a tiny bit since I last saw it, but yeah, I'm willing to 100% say it's good. You probably saw it on a whim or got word it was happening that specific week and dove right in. Only a guess, of course. At least you picked something that's good. I liked that match more than a majority of stuff from the year. Like every Kurt Angle match was inferior to it. It really, really was.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Top FIVE Matches in WWF/WWE History according to EVAN off the top of my head POST-STAR USE:

1. Taker/HBK IYH Badd Blood 97
2. Brock/Cena ER 12
3. Eddie/Rey 6/23/2005
4. Bret/Owen WM X
5. Bret/Austin WM XIII

YEAH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Greatoo MUUTAAAAHHHH!!! (need a Muta smiley!)
> 
> I'll probably never hop off the star ratings thing because it's just so much easier for me to differentiate exactly _how _much I liked a match. I could say Match A and Match B are both awesome or really damn good or something like that but assigning one a ***1/2 and another ****1/4 would obviously be able to tell you that one is much better. Idk, it's just something I've pretty much grown up with and plan to stick with.
> 
> ...


I know right? Legit needs one. Ok maybe not need...

That's the exception to the rule I mapped out when it comes to say some MOTYC. If need be I'd put the rating behind it to say I liked it "that" much and solely for that reason only. I can understand the logic in using it like that in general too.

Of course it is basic. It was only seen by a wide number of people in scare amounts back then. What makes that match so big at the time as it was really the first mainstream ladder match got more than "local" or "that night's crowd" level exposure. It was all a work in progress to where someone will take it next.

I agree. Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy is a slick match itself. Tells a great story.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't believe it took me this long, but I finally watched a non-WCW El Dandy match. Who am I to ever doubt El Dandy?

El Dandy vs. ***** Casas 2/3 Falls 5/7/92 *****1/2*

First fall consisted of matwork that I do not think I have ever seen. Man that wishbone split looked awesome. Why don't more people use it? Loved how these two wanted to battle to see who was the better "wrestler" in the first fall, so they do nothing but matwork. Second and third fall were both filled with some great drama and big shots. Nice finish to conclude this classic. I have no one else but Yeah1993 to thank for giving me the idea to watch some El Dandy. I still don't think I will ever go as far as to say he is better than Bret Hart like he has, but count me in as a new fan of this guy.

Smackdown looks pretty promising with three potential solid matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I may give starz another shot around MITB time. I understand where Corey coming from

Top5 off my head

Undertaker/hbk 25
Undertaker/hbk 26
Undertaker/hbk BB 97
Bret/scsa wm 13
Cena/punk MITB

1-3 are truly the same


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I can't believe it took me this long, but I finally watched a non-WCW El Dandy match. Who am I to ever doubt El Dandy?
> 
> El Dandy vs. ***** Casas 2/3 Falls 5/7/92 *****1/2*
> 
> First fall consisted of matwork that I do not think I have ever seen. Man that wishbone split looked awesome. Why don't more people use it? Loved how these two wanted to battle to see who was the better "wrestler" in the first fall, so they do nothing but matwork. Second and third fall were both filled with some great drama and big shots. Nice finish to conclude this classic. I have no one else but Yeah1993 to thank for giving me the idea to watch some El Dandy. I still don't think I will ever go as far as to say he is better than Bret Hart like he has, but count me in as a new fan of this guy.


Yay. I'd have el Dandy top 5 all time. Maybe. Top 6. Uh, OK, Kawada, Flair, Misawa, Fujiwara, Satanico are the 'better' pile for me. So he's #6 for me, right now, at this very moment in life. Your Hansens and Funks and Casas' (and honestly I think Rey) are close, but I'd have Dandy over them. He's absolutely top 10, anyway. That feels like a lock for eternity (though he could slip to 11 or 12 IDK). I think he totally blows Bret out of the water and I have always been a Bret fan. I could see argument that that match right there is the best match ever. And it might not even be the best el Dandy match.


On the subject on Meltzer not liking fatties - Scumbag. How do you not like fatties? They are wrestling personified (in lots of BEEF).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Check that shiz out. He always craps all over clubber-fests. Yeah, there can be a bad one or two out there but the good/great ones? Craps all over 'em. How dare he. If they stuck two fat guys in Japan _(NOT VADER)_ doing the same match he'd probably love it.

El Dandy is the man. iirc he had the greatest crash and burn splat in the eight man tag from Souled Out '98. That point on, I've been a fan.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

On the topic of star ratings, I have a hard time when it comes to rating something that is enjoyable but not that good or really good but not that enjoyable.

I've seen some sloppy ass fun matches that I'd watch over some matches people consider classics. I think enjoyment should definitely trump 'quality' and whatnot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Absolutely. 

It's not a crime to like a Gene Snitsky match. Not a crime at all.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Snitsky/Show from Unforgiven '05 is awesome. :lmao

I actually think I really liked one of Snitsky/Kane too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got a kick out of all the Kane vs Snitsky matches. NYR is their weakest, but screw it. Still a fan. Chain match is good stuff.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Chain match from TT '04. (Y)

I actually thought Snitsky was a good character until they went all foot fetish. Wasn't a fan of his bald monster phase though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Went from a credible monster heel, to a decent credible monster heel, to one with a foot fetish and subsequently a lower tier comedy face. Then came back as the bald version and it just wasn't the same. Who can forget those yellow teeth? Why, WWE, why?

Punk broke his nose with the GTS in his final match. Always made me laugh. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shit, never realized that was his last match. :lmao

Punk wins world title, faces Snitsky the next week. :/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about the first match they had in July. I was going all the way down to their match in November - first round of the Intercontinental Championship tournament.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ah, yes. 

Finals of that tourney with Punk and Rey was great. Those two never had a bad match if I recall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, not a single one. How could they? Look who the talent is. Great stuff.

Hard pressed to think of a bad Mysterio match off the top of my head, tbhayley. I mean it. Even the Khali match in 2006 was short and effective.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

He had a match with Chavo once that I didn't really care for. Wanna say SS '06, but I may be wrong on that.

But the fact that I can't even list five bad Rey matches is a very impressive feat. 

Khali '06 one was during the JBL feud, right?

They're not talked about too much but I love the Rey/Finlay matches from '07.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You got me there; I wasn't exactly too big on their SummerSlam '06 match. A rare miss for that combo and Mysterio in general. Something about it came off as uninteresting. Story & in ring work.

Yep. That's the one. It went like Henry, Khali, then Kane. Kane won and owned JBL afterwards b/c it was during the May 19th stuff. I still marked b/c Kane ended Smackdown looking like a boss.

I hate myself for not being able to remember them in a great detailed fashion, but yes. I'm right there with you. Specifically the one from England - yikes I think it was in England - where Finlay won. Had a heck of a match. Got a ton of time and those two absolutely killed it. Stretcher match was a lot of fun. That's the one that provides the clearest visual.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Yeah, Rey/Chavo had some damn good matches in the past. I really didn't like the direction that storyline started, with Vickie and the Eddie stuff.

There's the No Mercy one too where Finlay sells a head injury to the point where he's getting stretchered off and then jumps up and attacks Rey. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mysterio and Jericho did have some pretty poor bouts in WCW, but it was mainly because of Mysterio's injury. Specifically the Souled Out match.

I still cannot figure out why Vader/Hogan Superbrawl V and Hogan/Flair at Halloween Havoc are so highly lauded. Two pitiful matches that are often considered Hogan's best WCW matches. Gimme DDP/Hogan and Goldberg/Hogan over those two any day.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Albert-Benoit from NM' 03 is Train's best match in the WWE. Anyone else share the same love I do for it? **** to express that love in star format. It's really good.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Albert's best match is the IC title match with Kane in 2001. FUCK. So good. So, so good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bad Rey Rey match? Vs Eddie at WM. Worst match for either man imo. My least favourite match of all time.

ALBERT. What a guy. Kane matches in 01 were super awesome fun. Benoit match at NM 03 is awesome (though somewhat sickening to see Benoit land on the side of his head on a steel chair... ouch). Couple of good matches with 'Taker. Fun shizzle with Lesnar. Plenty of good tags with Test.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And the great Sheamus matches too :kobe

I wonder if, like Kurt Angle thinks, so much analysing of the wrestling (seeing storytelling, psychology, etc.) really does wipe out the fun in it. That would explain a lot about his matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dang, ATF stole my Tensai vs Sheamus plugs. All you guys are spot on with Albert/A-Train/Tensai's best work though. I wouldn't argue any points. All rule. 

I'd chuck in some of the matches vs Undertaker in '03 & probably a Brock match too. Rounds out the mix for his WWE/American work. Guy is very underrated.

----------

Brye, I loved the Finlay swerve lolz. Had everyone fooled and I think JBL was the only guy who loved it b/c that's how the feud began in the first place. JBL & Mysterio were arguing and Finlay became JBL's proxy fill in. Boy I hope that's not like WAY off the mark. I was a tad sporadic with my Smackdown views in '07.

---------

I like Jericho vs Mysterio from Souled Out '98. I'll watch it soon as I'm nearing that PPV, but it's in my collection via Mysterio's set and I tell ya, all good. I remember hearing it was "weak" and I couldn't see it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did anyone ever post the planned name of the Triple H dvd this year? If not:

“*WWE: Triple H – Thy Kingdom Come*”

:lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did anyone ever post the planned name of the Triple H dvd this year? If not:
> 
> “*WWE: Triple H – Thy Kingdom Come*”
> 
> :lol


Its what happens when he thinks of his burying expeditions 

Is that really the name?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips DVD name is......fpalm. I mean, I kinda get it with the King of Kings thing and the keys to the WWE kingdom soon to be his and all that but they really couldn't have come up with something better? They should have just called it The Game since I doubt people even remember the first one from 2002. Hopefully it gets changed lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When you got devoted fans not digging it; you've done something wrong, WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This is the planned name according to Freemantle, yes. Hopefully the artwork isn't as bad as some of the recent ones either...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm fully expecting a depiction of Jesus for the cover with that being the name. 

HOLY HUNTER HELMSLEY.

:jpl


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I like the 'Thy Kingdom Come' name.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

_Triple H: A Career of Burials_ or _Triple H: Politics, Burials, Games Played_ would have been better. They need to embrace that side of him already and it's probably an inside joke in the company anyway.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Regarding the WWE Best Of MSG Set, i sure hope they release some hidden gems in there, not more PPV matches, how about the HBK/Diesel Vs Taker/Bret and HBK/Diesel in the cage matches if they were filmed of course (iv'e seen the tag match handheld on YT).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Triple H: The Evolution Of The Shovel would've been better for a name.

EDIT: Found a mid-year Top 20 matches of 2013 out there, one that kinda sucks:



> 1. Cena vs Punk, Raw 2/27 (*****)
> 2. Taker vs Punk, WrestleMania (****1/2)
> 3. Punk vs Jericho, Payback (****1/2)
> 4. Elimination Chamber match (****1/2)
> ...


Some of these choices are WTF worthy.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Here is the complete match listings for The Legends of Mid-South Wrestling DVD/Blu-ray

*Disc 1*

The Beginnings

Ted DiBiase

Ted DiBiase vs. Paul Orndorff
Mid-South Wrestling • December 10, 1981

Junkyard Dog

Andre the Giant, Dusty Rhodes & Junkyard Dog vs. Afa, Sika & Big Cat Ernie Ladd
Mid-South Wrestling • January 14, 1982

Rat Pack – DiBiase & Borne & Duggan

North American & Mid-South Tag Team Championship No Disqualification Match
Junkyard Dog & Mr. Olympia vs. Ted DiBiase & Matt Borne
Mid-South Wrestling • October 28, 1982

Coal Miner’s Glove Steel Cage Tuxedo Loser Leaves Town Match
“Hacksaw” Jim Duggan vs. Ted DiBiase
Houston, TX • March 22, 1985

Travel of the Territory

Tony Atlas Benches 500 Pounds
Mid-South Wrestling • January 1983

Mid-South Tag Team Championship Match
Ted DiBiase & Matt Borne vs. Andre the Giant & Tony Atlas
Mid-South Wrestling • February 10, 1983

Magnum TA

Announcement of Magnum TA’s Manager
Mid-South Wrestling • November 1983

Mr. Wrestling II Conducts Workouts with Magnum TA
Mid-South Wrestling • December 1983

Magnum TA & Mr. Wrestling II vs. The Midnight Express
Mid-South Wrestling • January 27, 1984

North American Heavyweight Championship Match
Mr. Wrestling II vs. Magnum TA
Mid-South Wrestling • May 17, 1984

*Disc 2*

“Hacksaw” Butch Reed

A Painted Dog
Mid-South Wrestling • May 1984

A Tar & Feathered Dog
Mid-South Wrestling • May 1984

Ghetto Street Fight
Junkyard Dog vs. “Hacksaw” Butch Reed
Mid-South Wrestling • June 16, 1984

Midnight Express & Rock n Roll Express Rivalry

Mid-South Tag Team Championship No Disqualification Match
The Rock N’ Roll Express vs. The Midnight Express
Mid-South Wrestling • May 24, 1984

Jim Ross Interviews The Rock N’ Roll Express
Mid-South Wrestling • October 1984

The Rock N’ Roll Express vs. The Midnight Express
Jim Cornette in a Straight Jacket

Shawn Michaels Learns from Ted DiBiase

Shawn Michaels vs. Ted DiBiase
Mid-South Wrestling • December 1984

Terry Taylor’s Big Match against Ric Flair

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor
New Orleans, LA • June 1, 1985

*Disc 3*

Muhammad Ali

Mid-South Television Championship Match
The Snowman vs. Jake Roberts
New Orleans, LA • June 1, 1985

Ted DiBiase Becomes a Good Guy

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. Ted DiBiase
Mid-South Wrestling • November 15, 1985

Mid-South Goes National

Rob Ricksteiner vs. Nick Patrick
Power Pro Wrestling • August 3, 1986

The Bladerunners vs. John O’Reilly & Ken Massey
Universal Wrestling Federation • March 1986

“Hacksaw” Jim Duggan

UWF Heavyweight Championship Match
Terry “Bam Bam” Gordy vs. “Hacksaw” Jim Duggan
Universal Wrestling Federation • August 6, 1986

The Fabulous Freebirds

Lumberjack Match
Ted DiBiase & Dr. Death Steve Williams vs. Michael PS Hayes & Buddy Roberts
Universal Wrestling Federation • August 31, 1986

Terry “Bam Bam” Gordy

UWF Heavyweight Championship Match
Terry “Bam Bam” Gordy vs. Dr. Death Steve Williams
Universal Wrestling Federation • September 15, 1986

One Man Gang

UWF Heavyweight Championship Match
One Man Gang vs. Big Bubba Rogers
Universal Wrestling Federation • June 1987

Steve “Dr. Death” Williams

UWF Heavyweight Championship Match
Steve “Dr. Death” Williams vs. Big Bubba Rogers
Oklahoma City, OK • July 11, 1987

*Blu-ray Exclusive Content*

Mid-South Tag Team Championship Match
The Rock N’ Roll Express vs. The Midnight Express
Mid-South Wrestling • April 19 1984

UWF Heavyweight Championship #1 Contenders Match
Sting vs. Terry Taylor
Universal Wrestling Federation • June 13, 1987

Ted DiBiase gets his tyres slashed

North American Heavyweight Championship
Junkyard Dog vs. Ted DiBiase
Mid-South Wrestling • June 25, 1982

Superdome

Steel Cage Match
Ted DiBiase & Steve “Dr. Death” Williams vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts & The Barbarian
Mid-South Wrestling • August 9 1985

Buzz Sawyer

“Hacksaw” Jim Duggan vs. Buzz Sawyer
Mid-South Wrestling • November 11, 1985

Jim Cornette’s Favourite Moment in Mid-South

Cornette Gets Caked
Mid-South Wrestling • March 30 1984

Bill Watts Needs Help
Mid-South Wrestling • March 1984

Last Stampede Match
Bill Watts & Stagger Lee vs. The Midnight Express
Mid-South Wrestling • April 22 1984

Lessons on elevating talent

Dusty Rhodes Travels with Boyd Pierce

Bill Watts tells a story about Ernie Ladd’s Father




Despite owning DVDVR's Mid-South set, I am still going to buy this. One reason is good picture quality since these matches come from the master tapes as opposed to the DVDVR set that used VHS dubs. Another reason is that the mid-south wrestlers deserve a paycheck out of this.

Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-legends-of-mid-south-wrestling-dvd/45874/


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> *Blu-ray Exclusive Content*
> 
> UWF Heavyweight Championship #1 Contenders Match
> Sting vs. Terry Taylor
> ...


Yeah, definete purchase for me, wish these two were on the DVD though :sad: Never mind, alot of good stuff on the DVD already.

:cheer


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I LOVE THAT DVD TITLE. DEAD SERIOUS.

Now for a thought provoking question; thoughts on Ryback's work since his heel turn three months ago? I've always been one to belittle Ryback's face work as I believe that it was absolute fucking TRASH, but for some reason I gained more interest in his work once he started going all badass and shit. Of course, RYBACK RULEZZZ is fucking terrible, and his matches with Cena on PPV were god awful, but Ryback strikes me as a guy who sucks complete balls unless he's paired against somebody who can take his offense well such as a Daniel Bryan. I still think he's BAD, but I'm strangely looking forward to his match with Jericho at Money in the Bank.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> Triple H: The Evolution Of The Shovel would've been better for a name.
> 
> EDIT: Found a mid-year Top 20 matches of 2013 out there, one that kinda sucks:
> 
> ...


Where is this list from? I have a slight feeling it may be a poster on here who doesn't frequent this side of the internet much, anymore.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Anyone got a legit list of **+ matches of this year so far? :$ 

Got some time on my hands and may as well rattle on through every show. Expecting to see lots of SHIELD & DBRY.

& if not, just some top TV matches for this year.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

zep81 said:


> Yeah, definete purchase for me, wish these two were on the DVD though :sad: Never mind, alot of good stuff on the DVD already.
> 
> :cheer


You're not missing much with regard to that Sting/Terry Taylor match, quite frankly. Aside from it actually taking place on 13/09 (WWE :StephenA) the match wasn't that much to talk about from a critical perspective. I remember a similar listing being noted on a Sting comp as "historically" relevant due to it being the moment where Sting turns babyface and leaves Gilbert but I can't quite see that as anything memorable for a viewer coming in from a 2013 perspective toward UWF/Sting.

I'd rather be interested in seeing how much was actually stripped from the match when they went to commercial (the only tape form of that match runs at 8 minutes or so with a chunk missing in between). I'd assume quite a bit is missing as the two ringside partners (Gilbert and Shane Douglas) are now brawling with the referee and Sting down and then being mauled by a chair. Anyway, I like Taylor and Sting is Sting but the brawling was pretty miss here (especially after the commercial break). The camera trying to capture action up the entrance ramp (which was in darkness and unviewable) didn't help the match's case. Truly and honestly, don't feel down about missing it. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well fuck, the Mid-South DVD looks tremendous.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*@Rah*, that list I found on YouTube. Similar to that guy that has like 30+ ***** matches, including amongst those the SD Six Triple Threat from SS 2002.

*@Ever Wolf*, not sure on all **+ matches, though I have been working on a PPV match ranking and these are the matches I rated above **:



> Taker/Punk WM (****1/2)
> Ziggler/ADR PB (****1/4)
> Shield/Justice League EC (****1/4)
> HHH/Lesnar ER (****)
> ...


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> *@Rah*, that list I found on YouTube. Similar to that guy that has like 30+ ***** matches, including amongst those the SD Six Triple Threat from SS 2002.


I haven't seen that match since it happened (11 year old me cannot be trusted) but it was pretty nutty off my hazy memory. I somehow doubt it was "perfect", though. I've seen a few 4-star ratings of that match, but nothing remotely that high. THIRTY perfect matches from WWE? Wow. I doubt I could come up with 30 5-star matches from WWE's entire tape collection (territories included) let alone that single promotion. :argh:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> I haven't seen that match since it happened (11 year old me cannot be trusted) but it was pretty nutty off my hazy memory. I somehow doubt it was "perfect", though. I've seen a few 4-star ratings of that match, but nothing remotely that high. THIRTY perfect matches from WWE? Wow. I doubt I could come up with 30 5-star matches from WWE's entire tape collection (territories included) let alone that single promotion. :argh:


This is his list:



Spoiler: Taken out of his videos



Savage vs Steamboat, WrestleMania 3
Savage vs Warrior, WrestleMania 7
Bret vs Perfect, SummerSlam 1991
30-Man Royal Rumble 1992
Bret vs Bulldog, SummerSlam 1992
Bret vs Perfect, King Of The Ring 1993
Bret vs Owen, WrestleMania 10
HBK vs Ramon, WrestleMania 10
Bret vs Owen, SummerSlam 1994
Bret vs Backlund, Survivor Series 1994
Bret vs HBK, WrestleMania 12
HBK vs Diesel, IYH: Good Friends Better Enemies
Bret vs Austin, Survivor Series 1996
Bret vs Austin, WrestleMania 13
10-Man Tag, IYH: Canadian Stampede
Taker vs HBK, IYH: Badd Blood
Taker vs Foley, King Of The Ring 1998
Rock vs HHH, SummerSlam 1998
E&C vs Hardys, No Mercy 1999
HHH vs Foley, Royal Rumble 2000
Dudleys vs E&C vs Hardys, WrestleMania 16
Austin vs HHH, No Way Out 2001
Dudleys vs E&C vs Hardys, WrestleMania 17
Rock vs Austin, WrestleMania 17
Team WWF vs Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
HBK vs HHH, SummerSlam 2002
Angle & Benoit vs Edge & Rey, No Mercy 2002
Lesnar vs Taker, No Mercy 2002
Smackdown Six Triple Threat, Survivor Series 2002
Elimination Chamber, Survivor Series 2002
Angle vs Benoit, Royal Rumble 2003
HBK vs Jericho, WrestleMania 19
Angle vs Lesnar, Smackdown 9/18/2003
Team Austin vs Team Bischoff, Survivor Series 2003
HHH vs HBK vs Benoit, WrestleMania 20
HBK vs Angle, WrestleMania 21
Cena vs HBK, Raw 4/24/2007
Flair vs HBK, WrestleMania 24
Taker vs HBK, WrestleMania 25
Taker vs HBK, WrestleMania 26
Cena vs Punk, Money In The Bank 2011
Taker vs HHH, WrestleMania 28
Cena vs Punk, Raw 2/27/2013



Yup. ALL of these.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I've seen nearly every one of those matches receive 5* from somebody so it's no surprise to see somebody with all of them listed as such. To each his own.


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

It is nice to see Ted DiBiase get some love on the Mid-South Wrestling DVD! (Y)

The match listing is amazing! I am very excited to get it!


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Here are matches that will be on the Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden.
> 
> Match for the Undisputed Heavyweight Wrestling Championship
> WWE Champion, Bob Backlund vs. NWA Champion, Harley Race
> ...


Cool to see 3 unreleased matches but I already have the Shawn Razor Ladder Match on 4 other DVDs and the John Cena Royal Rumble Match on the Royal Rumble Anthology set so those 2 matches are unnecessary


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

WWE Championship
*Edge Vs John Cena (20/08/2006 Summerslam)*
★★★★
_I've seen a reviewer or two not dig the first half of this match which is a point I'd love to contend with them. I actually truly enjoyed the headwork by Edge on Cena, keeping Cena groggy and greatly teasing two countouts in the span of only a few minutes. Despite the waivering of the DQ rule, Lita's interference throughout also added to final stretch, in that it was a great way to bait Cena into the blind and allow for the brass knuckles to come into play. The rest of the match is exceptionally solid and dispersed with signatures and finisher teases that don't go into overkill yet remain captivating enough in their action to have your interests sustained. I'm a bit put off by the easiness in how Lita's final interference came across (in that Cena blatantly dipped his legs in allowing her to jump on - an issue you could perhaps weakly argue as him placing her into the FU) but, otherwise, this holds up even better than what I remember of it._


TLC match for the WWE Championship
*Edge Vs John Cena (17/09/2006 Unforgiven)*
★★★ 3/4
_Going into this match I've been surprised by two things
1) This is only Cena's third world title win
2) Edge's hometown are wildly against Cena

While it's true that this match could be labelled as spot-running, I'd relinquish the truth in that what else should you expect from an entertainment-driven wrestling product? To be frank, as well, I wouldn't even wish to derail its goodness with a mere "spot-running" label. None of the spots came across as too contrived, nor were they too obviously set up. I'd have enjoyed a lengthier continuation of their selling but both men ensured that they never detracted from the dangers this match involved. To his credit, Cena worked some beautiful facials amidst the brutality. Though I wonder how much of the pain he was putting on was actually legitimate. Detractors of Cena's work cannot deny the fact that Cena really does put his body second to the fan's enjoyment. I'm not sure if he asks his opponents to work so stiff against him, but it's definitely something I've noted and most probably reason why Cena was Lesnar's returning programme. Man alive did Edge crack Cena's skull multiple times in this match with vicious chair shots.

It's probably here that you realise how funny these types of crowds can be. Throughout the match the fans were united in their hatred against Cena. Hell, most of the fans were throwing up the middle finger when he was making his entrance. Yet the moment he pulled the title down the crowd popped for him. Sure, the crowd slowly turned against him a few moments later but it was a much softer hatred than before. This happens almost every time Cena is in a big match, too. No matter how against Cena the crowd may be, he slowly wins them over, anyway. As for the match, it won me over just like it did back in 2006._​

Unless I'm truly missing something phenomenal I've decided to skip their Royal Rumble match as I don't remember it being anything other than Edge working over Cena until the "triumphant" comeback moment right at the very end. Will probably do a write-up for HHH/Cena/Edge tomorrow morning, though I have finished watching it now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great reviews, Rah. My ratings are the same for those two, except inverted.

EDIT: Rewatched Orton vs Del Rio from HIAC and wow, it's still an awesome match. ★★★¼ and the only real flaw is the top rope botch when Orton forgot to dropkick Del Rio. Now I just have their Falls Count Anywhere match and the Night of Champions match with Ziggler then I'm done with 2012!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mid-South DVD looks good. Shame the Duggan/Sawyer match is on blu-ray only though because that's an outstanding match and better than most of what's on the actual DVD (from what I've seen which isn't all of it). I haven't bought a WWE DVD in years, might actually get this one.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> I LOVE THAT DVD TITLE. DEAD SERIOUS.
> 
> Now for a thought provoking question; thoughts on Ryback's work since his heel turn three months ago? I've always been one to belittle Ryback's face work as I believe that it was absolute fucking TRASH, but for some reason I gained more interest in his work once he started going all badass and shit. Of course, RYBACK RULEZZZ is fucking terrible, and his matches with Cena on PPV were god awful, but Ryback strikes me as a guy who sucks complete balls unless he's paired against somebody who can take his offense well such as a Daniel Bryan. I still think he's BAD, but I'm strangely looking forward to his match with Jericho at Money in the Bank.


He's better, but still not good and I never look forward to anything he does. He needs a great wrestler to carry him.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah I will totally be getting the Mid South blu ray. Way too many DiBiase matches to say no. Also, DiBiase V Flair? Fucking wonderful!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YEAH, I'm curious when it comes to your thoughts on the Mark Henry Vs Ryback match from Wrestlemania XXIX. The majority of people tend to say that it's a piece of shit, but I honestly thought that Henry did okay given the circumstances he was placed in (a piece of shit ) and where he was coming from at the time.

Somebody give me a random match to watch PLZ.

:brock


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watch RVD/Jeff Hardy from Summerslam 2001. Very good Ladder match in my opinion.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> YEAH, I'm curious when it comes to your thoughts on the Mark Henry Vs Ryback match from Wrestlemania XXIX. The majority of people tend to say that it's a piece of shit, but I honestly thought that Henry did okay given the circumstances he was placed in (a piece of shit ) and where he was coming from at the time.
> 
> Somebody give me a random match to watch PLZ.
> 
> :brock






Beat the Big Show then 10 years later Beat the Streak :cena4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

henry/ryback actually not that bad, Henry is amazing too bring that goof to a decent bout


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Henry/Ryback was awful. Only good thing about it was Henry winning. This or the Lesnar/HHH match takes it for worst match of the night at Mania.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Mid-South Blu Ray is so getting a purchase from me. Looks like loads of fun but I'm a little worried by the amount of matches that a lot of them will be JIP... but they may just be short TV matches. Who knows.

*Rah*, definitely skip the Cena/Edge Rumble match. Average stuff to say the least. They had a better match at Tribute to the Troops that year but it still suffers from the 'Cena wins out of nowhere' syndrome.

*Evan*, need a match to watch? How bout the one I ALWAYS plug: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2#.UdZYPm2wVvo


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RVD/Hardy sucked complete and utter balls, but I'll be damned if I say that I don't enjoy a complete car-wreck of a match from time to time. The spots were some of the most contrived I've ever seen and not really all that innovative, but it's a fun watch and I'd probably recommend it to alot of people who just enjoy SPOTS and shit. The whole match is literally those two guys exchanging spots and moves for nearly 20 minutes, if that floats your boat then it's cool.

Big Show/Cena (didn't watch that time but I'll give my thoughts) is decent. Classic Cena getting beatdown only to slay a monster type of story and as most Show-Cena affairs go, this was pretty much Show on offense the entire time bar the finish that I really enjoyed with the chain and the FU. Just, DECENT really would be the word to use, but it's one of the worst contests in their highly underrated series of matches.

Corey, THANKS BRO. I'm about to get on that shit right now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Looking forward to thoughts when I get up in the morning. Other folks should watch too... cause ya know, it's great. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Mysterio & Kidman Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team from 8/14/2003 is better than the Vengeance encounter, and probably one of the best WWE tags I've ever seen during the "BRAND EXTENSION" years. A lot of this is due to YOU GUESSED IT, Rey Mysterio's God given gift to play a babyface in peril and to be picked apart by the malicious offense of Haas & Benjamin. Haas and Benjamin target the shit out of Rey's midsection, rendering Kidman helpless on the outside to save his partner. Another aspect of this match that's awesome would be the bumping, DEAR JESUS Shelton bumps hard as fuck on some of these big Rey aerial moves that he busts out. The ending flurry of offense that the entire match builds to is just holy fucking shit, and the ending is :mark:. Yeah, this match fucking rules and it rules fucking hard. It has incredible near falls, storytelling, psychology, and it actually manages to be innovative as fuck too. 

REY.

PS: Anybody want me to watch & talk about another match? I'm all ears ATM.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ever seen Riley/Mysterio vs Swagger/Miz? It's a tornado tag that's actually pretty awesome.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KOK, look up to Kazarian vs London on Velocity in 04. Very short, but still damn fun.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ATF said:


> KOK, look up to Kazarian vs London on Velocity in 04. Very short, but still damn fun.


Bout to look that up myself, I'm a big fan of Kaz and I didn't know he worked a WWE match.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I watched The Shield vs Team Hell No & Ryback TLC match again. Damn that was a great match.


----------



## THE BWO HAVE POSSESSION OF ME (Jan 24, 2013)

*Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Marc Mero – In Your House: Beware of the Dog​*
The match kicks off with some brawling straight away with Mero getting the upper hand and hitting a couple of big spots to pop the crowd. The main story starts after Mero misses a corner charge (right after HHH does the Shawn Michaels corner bump!?!? – sorry, that’s just bizarre to see, especially when you see HHH today) and ends up hurting his shoulder on the ring post. And then everything HHH does is focusing on the shoulder of Mero, and Mero sells it like a champ for the entire match. The crowd doesn’t seem to be into it, but they popped for all of Mero’s comebacks and for Sable.

I can’t praise Mero’s selling enough. Subtle things like when he schoolboys HHH, he can’t put all his weight on him, and he can’t backslide him. I’m a sucker for stuff like that. Mero just trying to kick away and punch away to create distance is also pretty great. Marc Mero blocking the cross armbreaker by HHH was awesome but Vince and Lawler completely missed it – and as soon as it’s locked in, Mero is desperate to get out of it. But Mero blocking it and then selling it like that puts the hold and HHH over. Another great little spot: HHH covers Mero and puts weight on the shoulder and Mero kicks out from his bad shoulder and then sells the shoulder. He sells a kickout! Even better is Mero’s comeback, which uses moves that he just flat out doesn’t need the injured arm for, a back body drop, dropkicks, headscissors, etc. And just when I thought this wasn’t going to get any better, Mero injures his left leg as well because he couldn’t execute a dive over the top rope because of his injured arm. The ending was okay, I thought it would have been better if he had won with some kind of roll up, but I did like the idea of HHH having the match won, but he let his ego get the best of him.

The work itself is nothing special, it’s fairly basic, but I think it’s fair to say this match is a good example of showing that you don’t need to do anything extravagant if you have a good story and stick to it. And because the story was so well done, I never got bored by the fairly basic moves that they do. Great selling, great psychology, great match. ****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Mysterio & Kidman Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team from 8/14/2003 is better than the Vengeance encounter, and probably one of the best WWE tags I've ever seen during the "BRAND EXTENSION" years. A lot of this is due to YOU GUESSED IT, Rey Mysterio's God given gift to play a babyface in peril and to be picked apart by the malicious offense of Haas & Benjamin. Haas and Benjamin target the shit out of Rey's midsection, rendering Kidman helpless on the outside to save his partner. Another aspect of this match that's awesome would be the bumping, DEAR JESUS Shelton bumps hard as fuck on some of these big Rey aerial moves that he busts out. The ending flurry of offense that the entire match builds to is just holy fucking shit, and the ending is :mark:. Yeah, this match fucking rules and it rules fucking hard. It has incredible near falls, storytelling, psychology, and it actually manages to be innovative as fuck too.
> 
> REY.
> 
> PS: Anybody want me to watch & talk about another match? I'm all ears ATM.


HELL YES. Someone else understands and realizes the greatness. :clap


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Mid-South DVD listing is brilliant, so many Ted DiBiase matches!


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

WWE Smackdown 10/31/2002 

Chris Benoit vs. Edge ***1/4
Matt Hardy vs. Tajiri ***
Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero **3/4 - ***
Rey Mysterio vs. Brock Lesnar ***

AWESOME! Show


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thought the tornado tag was good. Not a fan of Riley or Miz in the slightest, but REY and SWAGGER stole the show in this one for me. Jesus, how many fucking fantastic babyface in peril roles has Rey even played in his career? Swagger helped work the shit over Rey pre-ankle lock, and then all hell breaks loose towards a hectic finish. If I were to sum up the match, I'd call it a fast paced & fun affair that people should check out.

Suggestions?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@KOK naitich vs haitich raw 03 I honestly think its one of hunter better matches

---------------------------------------------------
Flair/Funk I quit is so awesome and has lead me to an unpopular opinion that may be considered a sin in some parts


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I ADORE Flair/Funk, as well as their GAB 89 bout as well. They're not as good as the Steamboat matches or the Windham matches, but they're probably my favorite set of Flair bouts ever to be completely honest.

Flair/Haitch is one of those special matches that even if you used star ratings, they wouldn't do any justice to the moment we witnessed. Love it, love it, love it.

Continuing my HENRY SINGLES project. The man just delivers in these short bouts, everybody shuld check out the 7/20/2009 bout with Jericho on Raw, great stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KOK, watch Henry/Goldberg from 2003. Amazing stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Already have Henry's 2002-2008 & 2011-Present locked down. The Goldberg match is tremendous, as was most of Henry's work in 2003. I didn't like any of the Booker matches besides the Street Fight though strangely enough, so I might have to take another look.

1/30/2009 against Undertaker is up next.

:henry1


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Brye said:


> Bout to look that up myself, I'm a big fan of Kaz and I didn't know he worked a WWE match.


Kazarian actually worked a couple months of matches on Velocity. I remember them being at least decent.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

THE FUTURE~! FRANKIE KAZARIAN! I remember waiting for his debut and being really excited. Then he refused to cut his hair and left a couple of months after competing exclusively on Velocity (ouch). :lol All worked out in the end though, because the world would be incomplete without the existence of Bad Influence.

Is it weird that - outside of 2006 - I don't have ANY recollection of ANY Henry feud taking place between 2003 & 2010? Probably due for a refresher course.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That's because Henry floated around ALOT during the 2003 - 2010 period, and rarely competed on PPV due to what I'm guessing was WWE's trust issues in him to stay healthy. In that time period he had;

- Feud with Booker T
- Feud with Batista/Kurt Angle & Affiliation w/MNM (Batista gets injured)
- Feud with Undertaker @ Mania (Still probably his biggest match ever)
- Another feud with Angle
- ANOTHER feud w/ Batista that got cut due to injuries
- Another feud w/Undertaker
- Feud w/Matt Hardy
- Feud W/Finlay
- Spent 2009 & 2010 really floating around between tag teams and misc other things

Henry just doesn't have that resume of HUGE matches. His biggest match ever is easily his upcoming bout with Cena at Money in the Bank, as it'll be his first real Main Event title experience. If I were to name the four biggest Henry matches ever I would probably name the following;

1. Vs Undertaker (WM XXII)
2. Vs Orton (NOC 11)
3. Vs Big Show (SS 11)
4. Vs Undertaker (UNF 07.. Main Evented the Show)

I'd also say that the Ryback match was huge due to Henry getting a singles win at Wrestlemania over a young star.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Spoiler: OMFG















:henry1


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Oh yeah. I remember his feud with Batista, but only really for the infamous cage incident.

That's when I started to notice Henry for the beast that he is. 05/06/08 leading to the glory of 11.

But it's this promo that made me a MARK for MARK:


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Wrestling DVD News just announced more content for The Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden DVD/Blu-ray.

Andre the Giant & “Mr. Wonderful” Paul Orndorff vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper & “Cowboy” Bob Orton
10th August, 1985

Stone Cold Stuns The Boss
Raw – 22nd September, 1997

1st Ever Tag Team Tables Match
The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz
Royal Rumble – 23rd January, 2000

Booker T Attacks Mr. McMahon
Raw – 25th June, 2001




Here is a reminder of content that has already been announced

Match for the Undisputed Heavyweight Wrestling Championship
WWE Champion, Bob Backlund vs. NWA Champion, Harley Race
22nd September, 1980

Intercontinental Championship Match
Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. “Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase
29th December, 1991

Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon
WrestleMania X – 20th March, 1994

#1 Contender Triple Threat Match
Triple H vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho
Raw – 7th August, 2000

John Cena Returns in the Royal Rumble Match
Royal Rumble – 27th January, 2008

source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/more-matches-wwe-msg-dvd-blu-ray/45965/


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Rah*, definitely skip the Cena/Edge Rumble match. Average stuff to say the least. They had a better match at Tribute to the Troops that year but it still suffers from the 'Cena wins out of nowhere' syndrome.
> 
> *Evan*, need a match to watch? How bout the one I ALWAYS plug: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6...world-s-grea_sport?search_algo=2#.UdZYPm2wVvo


That Mysterio/Kidman Vs WGTT match was a fun way to kill 15 minutes. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WHATS CAUSING ALL OF THIS !! the nature boy

having a flair type of day 

flair/windham 4/11/87 is one of the best match of Ive ever seen


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> YEAH, I'm curious when it comes to your thoughts on the Mark Henry Vs Ryback match from Wrestlemania XXIX. The majority of people tend to say that it's a piece of shit, but I honestly thought that Henry did okay given the circumstances he was placed in (a piece of shit ) and where he was coming from at the time.


I haven't watched anything from Mania yet. Plan on doing that later this year. Though it is a Mark Henry match I'm actually NOT excited for.....take that how you want.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brye said:


> Ever seen Riley/Mysterio vs Swagger/Miz? It's a tornado tag that's actually pretty awesome.


:mark:

I forgot about but now that you posted it, it's bringing back so much memories :mark:. I remember pimping the shit out of it when it first happened. 

Man, Mysterio is such a great worker. Doesn't really put on 'classics' but you can always count on him for an entertaining match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched hbk/angle wm 21- I cant believe I had this near 5* at one point, it wouldnt crack ** now


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> That Mysterio/Kidman Vs WGTT match was a fun way to kill 15 minutes. (Y)


(Y) Sure is. A dvd release (maybe on Rey's final set?) would be stellar so everyone can enjoy the greatness in good quality.



Smith_Jensen said:


> 1st Ever Tag Team Tables Match
> The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz
> Royal Rumble – 23rd January, 2000


:mark: One of my childhood favorites. Who knows what the hell I'd think of it these days... but the Swanton in the crowd is AWESOME.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Thought the tornado tag was good. Not a fan of Riley or Miz in the slightest, but REY and SWAGGER stole the show in this one for me. Jesus, how many fucking fantastic babyface in peril roles has Rey even played in his career? Swagger helped work the shit over Rey pre-ankle lock, and then all hell breaks loose towards a hectic finish. If I were to sum up the match, I'd call it a fast paced & fun affair that people should check out.
> 
> Suggestions?


Need more suggestions ay? I'm gonna go WAY outside the box:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFNI1Gi4AgE

40 minutes into that (it's NWA Battle of the Belts II by the way) we get Lex Luger vs. Jesse Barr for the Southern Heavyweight Title or something like that. The match is so basic but I enjoyed the absolute hell out of it (especially the finish) and it's another underappreciated match that's deservedly overshadowed by the main event on the show.

BUT, if you're not feelin the old school shit just check out another super underrated and underappreciated Ladder match. RVD vs. Christian - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wccl_rob-van-dam-vs-christian-ladder-mat_sport#.Udd4JG2wVvo


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

If Sting comes to WWE we will finally get a Sting set. I mean we will get it when he is retired but IF he comes to WWE maybe we will get it in 2014. Give me 20 Sting matches you'd like to see on a WWE set......


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

A Sting set would be cool as shit. Haven't seen nearly enough of the guy. The essentials would obviously be matches against Flair, Vader, DDP, & Hogan (unfortunately). Love to see his match with Regal from GAB '96 and a match or two against Meng on there. Think they had a tournament final for the US Title. Maybe a rare match or two from Japan and something against Muta too.

Did Sting ever face Steamboat one on one? Seems doubtful since they were both always face.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

No Sting Vs The Dragon.

Man, Sting vs Ricky in their primes would have been ace.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You'd have to include one WarGames, you'd think. 91 or 92 I guess. Literally any Vader match is good enough to be on there. I say the strap match because not enough people realise it's amazing and probably the best gimmick match in the US from the 90s-onward other than Austin/Hart. Hell, throw at least two or three Vadermatches on there - amazing, amazing match-up. A Cactus match would be good; have they released the 1991 FCA (or whatever) one on DVD yet? More people need to see that. Sting/Austin 1/1/94 is awesome and should be on there. I think they have another really good one, as well. Sting/Regal GAB96 rules, and even if it's a TOTAL Regal match they should put that on there. Then there's Sting/DDP 4/26/99 (and one in 98 IIRC), Sting/Flair 4/12/99 (and others, but this honestly may be my favourite Sting/Flair) is worth including. I would say Sting/Benoit 9/20/99 is a MUST, but that won't be on there no matter what. Sting/Meng GAB95 would HAVE to be put on there. Throw in some Dangerous Alliance tags, a Muta match, the fucking terrific Flair/Sting v. Muta/Dick Slater tag, some Four Horsemen stuff, and that supposedly amazing Windham match I don't think I've seen and that's a good start. 

If a Sting set should do anything it should shut up the 'Sting sucks' people who have actually not watched a whole lot of Sting and are assuming or shit. It might not stop them from thinking he isn't all that good (which I still don;t agree with), but at least they would have actually watched some more Sting. I don't know why but he's been put in that Luger boat sometimes of 'people think he sucks be he's actually really good'. The Rock is unfairly in that boat now, too. I miss when only Cal hated him.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Sting and Rock are unfairly insulted for a perceived lack of skills. TNA Sting may be mediocre but he used to be great. Rock also has always been good to me. Even the Punk matches weren't as awful as some claim. I have no defense for the second Cena match though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Team WWE vs Team Nexus - Summerslam '10 - ****1/2
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz - Night Of Champions '10 - ***3/4
Daniel Bryan vs Miz vs John Morrison - HIAC '10 - ***1/2
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - Bragging Rights '10 - ****1/2
Daniel Bryan vs Ted DiBiase Jr. - Survivor Series '10 - ***1/2
SD MITB - Money In The Bank '11 - ****1/4
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - Summerslam '11 - ****

Awesome, awesome stuff. Bryan's PPV matches his first year were absolutely fantastic. The Ziggler/Bryan match would be MOTY if it wasn't for Taker/HBK being amazing. 

Also bonus:

Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - Glory By Honor V Night 2 - *****

Fan-fucking-tastic!


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Apparently Cesaro and Sheamus went 24 minutes in Japan last night in a really good match. Someone better have had a camera at hand.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone saw Orton/Christian from SD last night? The usual Orton/Christian affair. Lots of teasing the other guy's big move, reversals, even a throwback to the SD match from 2 years ago and of course a hot-ass ending. Some really good stuff. ***1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Anyone saw Orton/Christian from SD last night? The usual Orton/Christian affair. Lots of teasing the other guy's big move, reversals, even a throwback to the SD match from 2 years ago and of course a hot-ass ending. Some really good stuff. ***1/2


It was good but compared to what they can do, I thought it was not _as good_. ★★★ still. Loved seeing Orton bring back that Gutwrench Neckbreaker.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*** from me too for last nights Orton/Christian match. Some really great reversals there. DelRio/Punk- **1/4, Del Rio is so boring once again


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Picking up with my Trips project for a day or so before leaving for a few weeks (after I just moved. Fuck, can't wait to stay in the same place for more than a week).

Watched the HIAC with Foley and Jericho last night. I actually have them pretty close in * ratings, but have the NWO with Foley at ****1/4, and with Jericho at ****. The story with Foley was terrific, with Foley making it his mission to escape the cage and get to the top. Great bumps in this match, including Foley's falls to the announce table and through the top of the cage at the end. Trips facial expressions were also GOAT.

The match with Jericho was also good, better than the Mania match, and with Jericho playing a pretty good heel (no surprise). His trash talk, "Come on Hunter, you son of a bitch." :lol The whole Tim-White-getting-his-ass-kicked didn't do a thing for me, but I've NEVER liked ref bumps. Like, NEVER. Liked the action on top of the cage also, but I'm glad people don't really go up there anymore.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

LOL @ Sting sucks

I honestly have not seen much of his TNA stuff the last few years but Sting in his prime was damn good. Flair says he was one of the best he has been in the ring with.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> Sting and Rock are unfairly insulted for a perceived lack of skills. TNA Sting may be mediocre but he used to be great. Rock also has always been good to me. Even the Punk matches weren't as awful as some claim. I have no defense for the second Cena match though.


While I agree, Rock is criticized for his performances "right now," much like TNA's Sting. A lot of folks know they were or can be good and they act accordingly when they feel they come up short. BUT if anyone is saying these two men overall suck in the ring, basing it off of their whole careers, they need a reality check. Its all good if you don't like what they have done in the ring as of late, just as long as it does not cloud your judgement of their entire body of work. Though, since everything recent is fresh, its kind of hard to get away from. I reckon once Rock/Sting are long gone people will turn it down considerably.



Duke Silver said:


> Apparently Cesaro and Sheamus went 24 minutes in Japan last night in a really good match. Someone better have had a camera at hand.


Indeed. And a Funaki sighting! Heard the show all around was good for a live event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What would y'all give to every Angle 2001 PPV match (including UK PPV's)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stumbled upon ECW: Extreme Rules on Netflix the other night. Watched disc two, which happens to focus on the WWECW work from 2005 (ONS) - Late 2006 with their TV product. Lets run down some of the list, shall we?

*ECW: Extreme Rules Disc Two (Part One; Matches 1-6)​*
1) _ECW One Night Stand 6/12/05_

Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley vs Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman​


Spoiler: Details



~ Well this was straight out of the original Heyman style booked ECW product. Chaos, violence, overbooking nature with a lot of run-ins. Exactly what you wanted to see for the event. Really people, this was nuts. In-between some actual good brawling among the four in the match you had the bWo disrupt events before the match "officially" got under way, followed by Kid Kash appearing, followed by Balls Mahoney & Axl Rotten coming out and then those skeevy bastards brawled into the sunset while the four involved in the match stuck around to kill each other for the next ten minutes. Bless them for it. I couldn't imagine how entertaining the work here is if you're drunk. Total shoot. First reiteration of this review: like I said ABOVE^^ this was exactly what you wanted with the four - Dreamer bumping hard, earning the sympathy from the fans that love him so. Sandman being...well...The Sandman. Which means sick cane shots to heads & backs all the while busting out a non-punch move in the midst of keeping from passing out due to excessive drinking. And then those damn Dudleys did what they usually did best, beat the tar out of people, took a licking all the same, and made you love every minute of it. I know with the recent _(well 2011 - on)_ revival of now "Bully" Ray's career, can I go out on a limb and say the Dudleys were kind of always underrated? From all aspects of the game. In the ring in a brawling or standard two vs two capacity with the art of tag team wrestling & from character/mic work. These guys are good. They knew what they were doing. Oh, and btw the this match also had the Impact Players interfere, along with Francine & Beulah McGillicutty. And it ends with a flaming table. Why aren't all reunions like this? Yeah, lads, this is the ultimate fun side of Extreme Championship Wrestling. Anything with tombstone piledrivers on barbed wire spheres; I'm in.




2) _WWE vs ECW Head to Head 6/7/06 - Extreme Rules Match_

Rob Van Dam vs Rey Mysterio​


Spoiler: Details



~ Well this sucker on paper looked about as neat as anything could be. Mysterio vs Van Dam while both were in a decent series of their prime? Yes please. So right from jump street both guys whom are familiar with each other play off of that. While I ignore the petty bickering between the WWE & ECW announce teams. Remember in 2005 when ECW were solely faces and WWE were the villains of the situation by virtue of only being heels? Me either. A simpler time I'd imagine. Anyways, yeah these cats were cooking. The neat part was, as expected, you didn't even need any weapons for this to reach buckets of good level. Van Dam was channeling a lot of offense he didn't bust out for years. Like more "ECW" trademarked moves that he only used in WWE during the Invasion days and subsequently dropped. Which proceeded to give the match a whole new wrinkle. As if it needed it. Almost certain this was the first match that pitted both mega over babyfaces vs one another. I love Rey's particular means for countering something "extreme". He's just got this niche about doing so that is so Mysterio. It's wonderful to see. RVD certainly plays it off better than Sabu happens to do. RVD can actually put over an opponents moves where as Sabu sells it for two seconds and plays the "I'm a tough, insane bastard card" and goes onto his next botch riddled spot. Both guys kind of bump a bit nutty in this; you can tell they wanted to go all out with each other. It was clear as day, which by no means is a negative when watching while you suspend disbelief of course. It's nice to see two guys have fun while putting on a display that's both athletic and hardcore all the same time. Mysterio dies by missing something from the top rope. RVD tries to kill him some more by hitting a five star frog splash with the chair on Mysterio's chest - finish being Mysterio reacts in time to move the chair and not himself. Thus falling victim to Van Dam as he rolls onto the upcoming Sunday to duke it out with John-boy for the WWE Championship. This match was a peach. I probably missed a detail or two, but I think I got my point across. I liked it. A lot.




3) _ECW One Night Stand 2006 6/11/06 - World Heavyweight Championship; Extreme Rules Match _

Rey Mysterio(c) vs Sabu​


Spoiler: Details



~ Truthfully, I'm going to skip on a ton of details with this one. I've talked about ONS '06 a lot in my life. We all have. Lets face it, who HASN'T seen this match of the next one on the list? _(the insane six person tag)_ Mysterio took the punishment well as Rey always goes full throttle. He looked even better on the offense. Sabu, eh. He threw a chair. He jumped off of it. He didn't sell things too well nor took Mysterio's kicks like they were seriously knotting up his wheels. Two table spots happen, one of which was rad - a seated senton through a table omg - and the other being sick en route to the table completely giving way and having both men crash on the floor instead of cusioned a hair by the object itself. End result is flat considering it's like "really?" Then again, fair enough booking as Mysterio sure as hell wasn't going to lose his championship & Sabu probably wasn't going to be defeated in that kind of environment. At the end of the day I'll settle in saying this was "fine". Idk, I know some think it is fantastic, but I wouldn't go out of my way to dub that. Sabu stinks and he's probably always going to stink when you think about it. I know he's had a good match here or there blah blah blah. There comes a time and point where selling short term can only go so far. Especially when the idea behind the spots is that they take it out of you. Going through a table only to pop back up full of life is a tad counterproductive to the story you're trying to represent, Sabu. Well shit. That was a lot more words than I intended. Watch, I love the next match and it's going to be wicked short. You'll see.




4) _ECW One Night Stand 2006 6/11/06 - Extreme Rules Match_

Edge, Mick Foley, & Lita vs Tommy Dreamer, Terry Funk, & Beulah McGillicutty​


Spoiler: Details



~ Yep this is always going to hold up. Pure chaos. All things hit like you wanted it to hit. Foley & Funk were still fucking insane hardcore knuckleheads who go the full monty in putting the match over the top with violence and an outlandish spot. Dreamer took a dip in his ol' I'm going to get the snot kicked out of me work and played it extremely well. You're welcome for the pun, Tommy. And Edge is rolling along with his character work being at its all time high so naturally he was the cream of the crop in the middle of this hectic scene. Great match with plenty of great brutal moments as it was wanting the fans to see. These guys slaughtered each other when you think about it. Edge's pinfall will always please me. And himself too. And probably Beulah. Not Dreamer 8*D




5) _ECW 7/4/06 - ECW Championship; Extreme Rules Match_

Rob Van Dam(c) vs Big Show​


Spoiler: Details



~ Sweetness. I haven't seen this since the original air date. My stars Big Show in ECW was amazing right from the very beginning. This was really good. It wasn't very "extreme rules-y". More along the lines in one of those no DQ matches where there wasn't much spotty action opposed to there being portions of the match being used where the nature of the match was able to extend past the normal realms of a match. Aspect of that was well well. Better to say smart in this match. Show engulfed RVD throughout the duration - like awesome style domination. Gosh the man was such a bad ass giant here. Killing anyone and everyone who came within his path. What makes his performance so good is how he was monstrously believable while crushing Van Dam, yet on the flip side Show made Van Dam's comeback in the end equally as believable. Van Dam could do no wrong at the time with the fans and seemingly in the ring while working under the ECW format; despite getting busted by cops a few days prior. _(haha? Oh well, he was good stuff here.)_ Hilarious portion of the match during Show's swarming portion is he locks in a bearhug on RVD and the fans proceed to boo in glorious fashion. ECW FANS DON'T LIKE BEARHUGS - THEY WANT TABLES. At least the 2006 crowds in the earliest shows made the atmosphere as similar to the old days. I'll give them a plus one there. Nostalgia is always fun. Anyways, this stuff was good on all aspects. The most different match on the entire set considering it was the least 'hardcore' like I made mention of. Didn't need to be. It was awesome all on its own being the destroyer Show vs the exuberant flyer.




6) _ECW 7/11/06 - ECW Championship; Extreme Rules Match_

Big Show(c) vs Ric Flair​


Spoiler: Details



~ YES. I said YES. Oh mah goodness, this one never gets old. About as gnarly, bloody, & outright great as always. Flair isn't fucking around in this match and that's what makes it so prime. You knew Show wouldn't after his disposition since defecting to the extreme brand. Flair on the other hand, boy oh boy did he tap into that wicked insane Flair side for this one. Flair is great as a wrestler that he can crap on Mick Foley for doing matches like this, yet when he does them he makes them all radical in his own right. It's like he wants to slam gimmick matches/brawls of this format, but when he's place in them he'll make it the toast of the town. That's Ric Flair, baby. So yeah Flair is an escaped mental patient in this one, totally taking it to Big Show in a much more feverish way than RVD did the previous week. We're talking Flair bringing out the barbed wire bat, thumbtacks and the whole she-bang. He wanted to mame Show all b/c of the night prior where he was disrespected. He couldn't get Foley, so next best thing was to take it out on Heyman's newest pet project in Show. Slap me sideways this is fantastic. Show rocked the vote or boat or whichever phrase shall best be nudged into this sentence b/c he had like three portions of this match where he gave a whole different performance. The first was the initial domination portion - bloodies Flair early and takes the vet for granted. After Flair decides to burn the world and take Show down with him, he (Show) is now in defense mode making sure he can leave the building alive. Screw a championship, he just wants to live. Again, making this highly believable that a large man like himself can get the piss beaten out of him by a man in his near 60's. Barbed wire bat or not. And last Show had a new side of him come out after he was busted open by Flair. It was portrayed & highlighted nicely by Joey Styles how Show honest to goodness became that "shark who saw blood in the water" due to after seeing his own blood became ENRAGED and got back the upper hand. Flair knocked Show into the tacks, nearfall, Show gets back up and goes to town on Flair. In short order too considering how many bombs from a giant would it take to fall a man? Let alone one high in age and bleeding a crap ton. Show's berzerk stage - and the match - reaches the exciting climax when he locks Flair into his cobra clutch backbreaker/choke to make the legend fade away in seconds. Following the bell Show chucks Flair into the pile of thumbtacks just to be a vicious motherfucker. Awesome, awesome, awesome. Mind you all of this was done under a viewing time (b/c there was a commercial very early on) of a sub-ten minute format. Believe my timing came out to this match being at 9:01. All of this goodness in that small time. I adore when magic like that is made. This is probably the most popular match from the WWECW tenure. At least during the Heyman run of it. A modern day classic for the brand.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Damn, Trips/Orton Last Man Standing from No Mercy 2007 may be one of my favorite Trips matches. Such a terrific babyface performance from Trips, and Orton's heel work is very good. Third match of the night for Triple H, and his ribs were the focal point for Orton. JR GOATing on commentary also played a part in making this great. 

Looking forward to comparing this LMS with Trips/Flair from Survivor Series 2005. Heel Trip vs Face Trips in these matches is so different, but so awesome. 

Also watched Trips/Khali from Summerslam 2008 for the lolz.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I own that Extreme Rules DVD. (Y)

Edge/Foley/Lita vs Funk/Dreamer/Beaulah is honestly one of my favorite matches to watch. It's just so damn good. Will need to give RVD/Show another look. All I remember is a beer cup hitting Heyman in the face or something. And that Flair/Show match is fucking awesome!


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

2006 ECW is fucking awesome


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really enjoyed every year of WWECW except for the first half of '07 iirc.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

I just watched SummerSlam 2006. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to watch it? Only the main event was watchable.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Duke Silver said:


> Apparently Cesaro and Sheamus went 24 minutes in Japan last night in a really good match. Someone better have had a camera at hand.


Cesaro on a house show, in Japan, working over 20 minutes with someone he has good chemistry with?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I really enjoyed every year of WWECW except for the first half of '07 iirc.


Right now that's exactly where I am and the only match I really bothered with is Lashley vs Orton from 13/3. Pretty good match too.



TomasThunder619 said:


> I just watched SummerSlam 2006. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to watch it? Only the main event was watchable.


Foley/Flair and even Hogan/Orton were good too. Also recall the DX tag not being too bad other than too much time wasted on Super-DX overcoming every odd against them.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rah said:


> Cesaro on a house show, in Japan, working over 20 minutes with someone he has good chemistry with?


I heard he worked one with Jericho the previous night (or the one after) as well!

And agreed, C2D, it's just lots of filler other than some decent New Breed stuff. Dunno if I remember Orton/Lashley.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> And agreed, C2D, it's just lots of filler other than some decent New Breed stuff. Dunno if I remember Orton/Lashley.


Most of the ECW shows from 06-07 I've gone through in like 10 minutes. The roster doesn't interest me at all and neither do the repetitive match-ups. And with the lack of big names that draw me in, I don't have the patience to sit through every episode the same way I watch Raw and Smackdown shows from the same time period. Hopefully when I get to 08 and onwards (wont be for a while), I enjoy the shows more. The ECW originals are washed up for the most part and the New Breed consists of mostly guys who were gone pretty fast.

And that Orton/Lashley match is underrated. Orton started using a Jericho-like Boston Crab around this period which he ditched after a month. Doesn't look bad at all.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3yn4d_ecw-13-03-2007-bobby-lashley-vs-ran_sport#.UdiAGLU2iKI


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For discussion sake, here's a Top 10 Ladder matches in WWE history list I found on Bleacher Report:



> 1 - HBK vs Razor, WrestleMania 10
> 2 - TLC II, WrestleMania 17
> 3 - Jericho vs HBK, No Mercy 2008
> 4 - Jericho vs Benoit, Royal Rumble 2001
> ...


Link is this: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1694774-wwe-money-in-the-bank-ranking-wwes-10-greatest-ladder-matches/

Average list, imo.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Rock/HHH has no business being on that list. Also 0 MITB matches is ridiculous.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

TomasThunder619 said:


> I just watched SummerSlam 2006. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to watch it? Only the main event was watchable.


Foley/Flair is all kinds of awesome despite the lack of time and shit finish. Hogan squashing Orton is enjoyable too


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Most of the ECW shows from 06-07 I've gone through in like 10 minutes. The roster doesn't interest me at all and neither do the repetitive match-ups. And with the lack of big names that draw me in, I don't have the patience to sit through every episode the same way I watch Raw and Smackdown shows from the same time period. Hopefully when I get to 08 and onwards (wont be for a while), I enjoy the shows more. The ECW originals are washed up for the most part and the New Breed consists of mostly guys who were gone pretty fast.
> 
> And that Orton/Lashley match is underrated. Orton started using a Jericho-like Boston Crab around this period which he ditched after a month. Doesn't look bad at all.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3yn4d_ecw-13-03-2007-bobby-lashley-vs-ran_sport#.UdiAGLU2iKI


I agree. Guys like Balls Mahoney/Sabu/Sandman didn't really get anything done in the new ECW. I still liked Dreamer and RVD though. '08 is pretty great because of Finlay, Morrison, Miz, Henry, Hardy and Bourne in the Summer. '09 is top notch stuff, imo.

And I'll give that a look, thanks. (Y)



ATF said:


> For discussion sake, here's a Top 10 Ladder matches in WWE history list I found on Bleacher Report:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh man, not a fan of that list at all. I'd go something like:

1. Benoit/Jericho - RR '01
2. MITB I - WM 21
3. TLC III - SD '01
4. TLC I - Summerslam '00
5. Sheamus/Morrison - TLC '10
6. MITB IV - WM 24
7. Hardy/Taker - Raw '02
8. HBK/Jericho - NM '08
9. Punk/Hardy - SS '09
10. Edge/Flair - Raw '06

Honorable mentions: HBK/Razor - SS '95, SD '10/'11 MITB & TLC IV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I own that Extreme Rules DVD. (Y)
> 
> Edge/Foley/Lita vs Funk/Dreamer/Beaulah is honestly one of my favorite matches to watch. It's just so damn good. Will need to give RVD/Show another look. All I remember is a beer cup hitting Heyman in the face or something. And that Flair/Show match is fucking awesome!


I figured the aftermath would have been shown on the DVD - and it was - so I remembered to look out for Paul E. to get walloped and he did. Still hilarious. :lol

WWECW program was always entertaining for me. Echoing your thoughts on 2008 being a heck of a year for the brand. 2009 goes without saying in its own right. Both are kind of neck and neck now that I think about it. 2009 may or may not have the edge thanks to the Christian led brigade. 2007 did seem to have some iffy points; not going to lie every time I see an Elijah Burke match on the show I actually think it's going to be the worst thanks to the guy being a pile of bantha poo doo. Reliving how horrible the match vs Punk from Judgment Day 2007 has scarred me for life. I could have sworn the guy was at least solid in WWE & only bad in TNA. Not it appears he might have been very, very poor right from the start. Of course, I wouldn't mind a chance to relive all the bouts & see how they fare. Caught up with 2009, I remember tons from 2008 or viewed it often. 2006 got a good jump via the Extreme Rules set and now it's time to see what 2007 had to offer. Looking at the results it seems like the real "go-to" aspect of the year was letting Punk be the ultimate workhorse. Lengthy matches vs a barrage of guys on the roster: Morrison, Knox, Thorn, Striker, etc. It all looks appealing on that front.

I don't remember Orton vs Lashley myself. Stumbled upon it while reading and from a plus commercial aspect the match got a lot of time behind it. Around the nineteen minute mark. I'd have to watch it again and see how it goes. Unsure of the prospects b/c I know Orton is great at the time. Lashley however was pretty bleh. His good matches were few & far between.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Duke Silver said:


> Apparently Cesaro and Sheamus went 24 minutes in Japan last night in a really good match. Someone better have had a camera at hand.


This breaks my fucking heart.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Orton/Lashley? Don't recall that ever happening. 

Also, glad to see there were others who enjoyed WWE ECW. It was a great run. Was one of the view vocal member son this forum back when they cancelled it for NXT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gonna check out that Lashley vs Orton match right now, as a matter of fact. Hope it's worth the time.

EDIT ~ :lmao @ the match. Fuck me sideways was it one of the worst wrestling matches I've ever seen. 

Orton's methodical approach didn't tread on the borders of lazy, it jumped into it. Did he tank the match b/c he didn't want to work on ECW or what? b/c that wasn't like Orton at all at the time. He has his hotel meltdown not long following this so yeah, the guy clearly didn't give no shits about anything. And then there is Lashley. You suck, pal. I mean really. Couldn't you have TRIED to sell what Orton was doing to you - lazy or not. His legs & back were supposed to be damaged for about 95% of the match. Moment he makes his two minute comeback he negates all of that and doesn't sell a damn thing. He'd be out of a job if he were a salesman. Following all of that garbage he picks up Orton on a whim, Orton doesn't fight it although it looks like could easily hop off Lashley's shoulders, and hits him with the running powerslam to win so abruptly it felt like a kick to the nuts. Yeah, this was not worth the time.

I'll bring back star ratings just to put this in the negative territory. I was wise to forget this match ever happened.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> What would y'all give to every Angle 2001 PPV match (including UK PPV's)?


vs. Triple H (Royal Rumble) *** 3/4
vs. Steve Austin (Summerslam) **** 3/4
vs. Steve Austin (Unforgiven) ****
vs. Steve Austin vs. RVD (No Mercy) *** 3/4

Those are probably the only ones I've seen in the past 5 years.



TomasThunder619 said:


> I just watched SummerSlam 2006. What the hell was I thinking when I decided to watch it? Only the main event was watchable.


DX/McMahons is tons of fun. Not a fan?


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Yeah1993 said:


> This breaks my fucking heart.


Yeah. I'd take camera phone footage from the nose bleeds.

It's a shame that there isn't a company to release WWE's Japanese tours on DVD like Silvervision used to with the UK tours. There always seems to be something special on the Japan cards.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with number #1 on the ladders list
top ladders ( I HATE ladder matches btw)

1) hbk/razor wm 10
2) JOMO/sheamus tlc 10
3) hbk/razor ss 95
4) hbk/Jericho nm 08
5) benoit/Jericho rr01
----------------------------------
that cesaro/sheamus match better be on dm,yt soon, Yeah is the henry/sheamus italy match still up ? would love to watch that
------------------------------
rewatched some :hbk2 mania matches the last couple of days, 

hbk/razor wm 10 ****3/4, near perfect, and really cannot name anything wrong. Simple, the blue print, original. Love the action and them actually trying to wrestle as opposed to relying on spots

hbk/angle wm 21- is DOESN'T hold up at all, I use to love it but now I think it sucks. Im all for mat wrestling sometimes but its just to much but its angle so what do you expect. Really don't like the begin and the end is kinda stupid either get up or tap Shawn. Its a 30+ min match and I only enjoyed like 5 mins tops

hbk/Jericho wm 19- good match, not great- flashy and I use to adore this one as a kid, Shawn looked good, and Jericho did his best matching him move for move. I wouldnt consider this a CLASSIC but a decent match maybe some where in the *** range for starz


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/Jericho wm 19- good match, not great- flashy and I use to adore this one as a kid, Shawn looked good, and Jericho did his best matching him move for move. I wouldnt consider this a CLASSIC but a decent match maybe some where in the *** range for starz


same, i've never understood the love for it.

i enjoyed the angle/shawn match but it seems to be cool to bash angle itt.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't understand when people say the phrase "it seems cool to bash insert name here". 

Consensus do happen. If a lot don't like Kurt Angle, well, that's just the way it goes. Some want to claim Cena sucks. I don't agree, but that's their opinion. I'm not going to say _"oh, it's only b/c other people do it."_


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I'm just saying that *ITT* it's cool to bash him whereas elsewhere in the forum he's a god. I find it funny and odd.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Or he just isn't that good.


I gotta see Lashley/Orton. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I gotta see Lashley/Orton. :mark:


You're not being sarcastic, are you? I'll be interested to see your thoughts. Maybe there's a chance you wont tear the match apart.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like watching things that have a chance of being terrible (based on what Cody said).  I have ever since Trip/Steiner blew my mind. On paper it really doesn't look exiting in the slightest.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ that orton match is horrendous


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm watching disc 2 of the In Your House blu ray tonight. I just watched the main event of Calgary Stampede. Can I give something 17 stars? Kidding. But really what a fun match. I will go the full ***** on that baby. The talent involved in that one is crazy to think about. I love how Austin went back in after the match and tried to attack the whole Hart family.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Fuck, I still need to buy the IYH set since I haven't seen a bunch of stuff on it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I watched some of the iyh set everyday. So many good matches especially if you a big shawn guy


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I think I watched some of the iyh set everyday. So many good matches especially if you a big shawn guy


Shawn happens to be my favorite of all time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Just got done with the HBK/Taker match. I marked for Rude and Taker's suicide dive over the top. Pretty good little build up to the first HiaC.

Lots of guys I like way more thn Shawn but he of course is one of the best of all time....love or hate him. Few better all around.


----------



## Punkhead (Dec 29, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> DX/McMahons is tons of fun. Not a fan?


The whole feud was entertaining. The pre-match was fun, but the match was meh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Brye said:


> Shawn happens to be my favorite of all time.


Same :mark: :mark: 
Yes they have vs nash gfbe, mind games with foley, vs jarrett, ground zero with taker. Just great stuff


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I get worked up when people say HBK V Mankind at Mind Games is overrated. It's pretty close to perfect. Really great match and did a lot for both guys imho. Really helped give HBK believability against the monster types....Vader, Sid, Taker, etc


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I like watching things that have a chance of being terrible (based on what Cody said).  I have ever since Trip/Steiner blew my mind. On paper it really doesn't look exiting in the slightest.


I like watching bad matches too, but this wasn't even wrestlecrap kind of fun to watch. BE WARNED. :hayley1

-----------

Well, just saw the Chicago Street Fight from WrestleMania 13 in what feels like eons. My stars was that ever so wonderful & sloppy. I preferred those guys not going about it pretty. Which fit the majority of those workers to a tee, considering lads like Crush, Faarooq _(at this point in his career)_, & Ahmad Johnson weren't exactly "pretty" wrestlers. Nation of Domination at this point was truly conducted like a street gang, so implicating those mentalities into the match to give it a feel that it was more like a legit credible fight among the six was really, really good. Clearly there have better brawls in the world of wrestling via a stronger structure and going from point A to point B type format. But I have to applaud in making this feels as wild as it should have been. Even Ahmad Johnson looked good during this. Perhaps I'm a little hard on him. He was good in the Nation feud. his promos weren't. That's what makes him legendary.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Chicago Street Fight is one of those matches I have loads of fun watching. At the very least it's entertaining. Similar to the five way kendo stick match from Extreme Rules '08. Can watch it a million times.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I miss demonic monster heel Kane circa 1998.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Glad you mentioned that signapore cane five way. Been dying to watch that sucker again. Remember it being the coolest match of 2008. No lie.

Oh, and you know what match is like honest to goodness the most entertaining thing around? Al Snow vs Bob Holly from St. Valentine's Day Massacre. Good lordy, it's like a real life version of a scrolling level video game. Both men start one area, run down through the crowd, all kinds of hallways, out of the building, in the street, in the forest, and eventually into the Mississippi River. It's absurd & a blast all the same. While the 24/7 was equally a ton of fun to see weekly, this early stage of the Hardcore Championship where guys had real bang 'em up contests vs each other was honestly the tops. Guys all felt GREATLY motivated to pulverize each other in nutty situations. I loved this. So, so, so much. Al Snow :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

CODY RODGERS said:


> Glad you mentioned that signapore cane five way. Been dying to watch that sucker again. Remember it being the coolest match of 2008. No lie.
> 
> Oh, and you know what match is like honest to goodness the most entertaining thing around? Al Snow vs Bob Holly from St. Valentine's Day Massacre. Good lordy, it's like a real life version of a scrolling level video game. Both men start one area, run down through the crowd, all kinds of hallways, out of the building, in the street, in the forest, and eventually into the Mississippi River. It's absurd & a blast all the same. While the 24/7 was equally a ton of fun to see weekly, this early stage of the Hardcore Championship where guys had real bang 'em up contests vs each other was honestly the tops. Guys all felt GREATLY motivated to pulverize each other in nutty situations. I loved this. So, so, so much. Al Snow :mark:


Big Show's bump with the steps and then him proceeding to literally kill everyone was amazing. So much great stuff in that match.

Holy shit, YES! I remember loving that match even when I was like 7. Those matches that went all across the arena and outside were always real fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean the part where he grabs the cane and legit bludgeons all the four guys to death? b/c I remember going ape while watching it on DVD :mark:

This Falls Count Anywhere DVD set is quite fun. A few selections are some questionable choices; the end result is general entertainment. Except for the last match which was Rock vs Triple H Strap Match from Fully Loaded '99. It was boring with atypical Attitude Era brawling. For Triple H being good in gimmick matches, he sure does have a lot of plotting brawls. _(Thankfully on disc three they put Trips vs Umaga Street Fight on the set. Now that one is great iirc)_

Test vs Shane McMahon from SummerSlam '99 is next. Omg YES.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Just watched Test/ Shane at SS 99 a few days ago. Really fun match. God Steph was hot then. Fuck she still is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2002 - 2003 Steph. Now that's where it is at.

Oh, right. Matches discussion. umm...this match is still awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

CODY RODGERS said:


> You mean the part where he grabs the cane and legit bludgeons all the four guys to death? b/c I remember going ape while watching it on DVD :mark:
> 
> This Falls Count Anywhere DVD set is quite fun. A few selections are some questionable choices; the end result is general entertainment. Except for the last match which was Rock vs Triple H Strap Match from Fully Loaded '99. It was boring with atypical Attitude Era brawling. For Triple H being good in gimmick matches, he sure does have a lot of plotting brawls. _(Thankfully on disc three they put Trips vs Umaga Street Fight on the set. Now that one is great iirc)_
> 
> Test vs Shane McMahon from SummerSlam '99 is next. Omg YES.


Funny story about that Rock/Trips strap match. Me and my dad ordered that when it happened and right before this match the show cut to a porno. :lmao 

That set is pretty solid. I love the Trips/Umaga match. 3rd disc has Orton/Rhodes. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Funny story about that Rock/Trips strap match. Me and my dad ordered that when it happened and right before this match the show cut to a porno. :lmao
> 
> That set is pretty solid. I love the Trips/Umaga match. 3rd disc has Orton/Rhodes. :mark:


:lmao

considering that was all the way back in 1999, I bet that wasn't something your dad wasn't too keen on you getting a quick glimpse of. At least it didn't cut away during the Taker vs Austin main event. Or else I would have been mad, haha.

It was one of those random "lack of" fanfare sets to come out recently so I wasn't too sure in what to expect making the cut. An all brawl stip set, yeah, it's worked out pretty well. Oh crap does it? I got that match on DVD already, but the quality is WAY less than high grade + there is the commercial break in the middle thanks to it being from the live recording of that Smackdown. My memory is very fond of the street fight and I'm almost certain it should hold up. Orton stigma being in gimmicks these days or not. I'm plenty excited to see it in some grand quality.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

CODY RODGERS said:


> :lmao
> 
> considering that was all the way back in 1999, I bet that wasn't something your dad wasn't too keen on you getting a quick glimpse of. At least it didn't cut away during the Taker vs Austin main event. Or else I would have been mad, haha.
> 
> It was one of those random "lack of" fanfare sets to come out recently so I wasn't too sure in what to expect making the cut. An all brawl stip set, yeah, it's worked out pretty well. Oh crap does it? I got that match on DVD already, but the quality is WAY less than high grade + there is the commercial break in the middle thanks to it being from the live recording of that Smackdown. My memory is very fond of the street fight and I'm almost certain it should hold up. Orton stigma being in gimmicks these days or not. I'm plenty excited to see it in some grand quality.


:lmao Yeah, my dad was pissed. Actually got his money back + a free replay out of it.

Street fight held up very well last time I watched. Great ending to the Undashing storyline although I wish Cody would have at least won at Vengeance, if not there. Thoughts on the Legacy/DX FCA match? I kinda love it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

CODY RODGERS said:


> 2002 - 2003 Steph. Now that's where it is at.


Right there with ya boss. I believe this scoop of deliciousness is from 2002. 

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/pwelite-fed/StephanieMcMahonAss.jpg

Getting ready to watch Mankind/Rock LMS. Love this match!!

I really miss Umaga.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> :lmao Yeah, my dad was pissed. Actually got his money back + a free replay out of it.
> 
> Street fight held up very well last time I watched. Great ending to the Undashing storyline although I wish Cody would have at least won at Vengeance, if not there. Thoughts on the Legacy/DX FCA match? I kinda love it.


Haha, awesome.

That's what I remember about it. It helped Rhodes out despite losing in the end. I'll always miss the - with what I call it - "Dashingly Demented" character. Rhodes' pinnacle of his WWE career. No doubt. Loss at Vengeance was frustrating. Def should have gotten the W that night.

OH MY. Crash vs Headbangers in the Fun Time USA for the Hardcore Championship has made this set. All is right with the world :lmao :mark:

Legacy vs DX Submission Count Anywhere, eh? It's good in my mind. Only saw Breaking Point once outside of Cena vs Orton, so it's purely a one time viewing type mindset but I didn't have many complaints. Triple H sold the cooler shot like death. That cracked me up. Rest seemed to pleased me; I thought SummerSlam was the stronger match, personally.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Right there with ya boss. I believe this scoop of deliciousness is from 2002.
> 
> http://www.angelfire.com/ego/pwelite-fed/StephanieMcMahonAss.jpg
> 
> ...


Picture didn't show up. :$

Umaga was the man. The chemistry he had with Jeff Hardy was bliss.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I forget the promo but the pic I posted was with Steph in a mini skirt and it starts with her bending over a table.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. I remember that plenty. The "do I have your attention now?" thingy. Random, but I'm not complaining.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes! Better than the Flair/Steamboat trilogy combined...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_sBIcBgWvM


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ain't no doubt about it. :side: Anything for a Larry Sweeney quote.

Oh shoot. I didn't even know Vince vs Shane had a second street fight in 2001. It's generally along the same lines as the original from WrestleMania. Not like that's a bad thing. It had some solid comebacks from the previous too. That's the best part. Turns out this was the match where Angle joins the Alliance. Huh. Remember that since it happened, just not the match. Well now the refresher course happened.

Disc three time? Perhaps. Batista vs Mysterio street fight made it. That should be quality. The match following it was a ton stronger, but I'm looking forward to seeing Batista become Monstroso on Mysterio.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

Speaking of Flair, I watched that wife swap episode with Piper, terrible. What a fucking shame, Flair still spends too much money for strangers like Piper said, and when Piper called him out on that he got pissed. He doesn't spend any time with his new girlfriends kids. At the end when his girlfriend came home from the wife swap, all of the kids ran and hugged her and not Flair, that tells you something. Even Pipers wife said that he needs to spend more time with his family.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I havent watched the wife swap yet but isnt Piper a big family man? If so that makes Flair kinda look like a douche if Piper's wife wants him at home more. If memory serves doesn't Piper have a son trying to make it in MMA? 

Just got done watching Mankind/Rock LMS on the IYH set. Love that match. Probably in the 4 star category.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Decided to go with Morrison vs Miz Falls Count Anywhere. 

99% sure this match is awesome. Miz pun intended? Who knows. I don't nearly despise Miz like others during his relevancy stage. 2012 & 2013 are a different story. I miss these days when Miz got under your skin for all the right reasons. Aka being a heel.

Always going to miss Morrison.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My GF who loves wrestling (yes lucky guy) misses Morrison as well. Yes cuz he is dreamy but he was damn good in the ring as well. Hope to see him back someday. 

Miz as a face is campy and annoying. Miz works as a heel much more. I couldn't stand him back during his title reign. Mission accomplished as a douchey heel. He still had no business main eventing a Mania and walking out of Mania with the damn title. 

Watching Bret/Austin at IYH. The chemistry these two had was just off the page. Very underrated rivalry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Still think the company made a boneheaded move in putting this on RAW instead of at Royal Rumble. Could have thrown Morrison a bone in another very high profile PPV match to ride the momentum he had in defeating Sheamus. Luckily this match managed to have a feel behind it where it still mattered. Point being, Miz vs Orton for like the fourth time was eh. Especially when it was only there to get Punk to begin his feud vs Orton. As if that did Miz any favors during his reign.

Revenge of the Taker match. You know what? I've never seen it. Bet it's spectacular.


----------



## Ether (Aug 28, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I havent watched the wife swap yet but isnt Piper a big family man? If so that makes Flair kinda look like a douche if Piper's wife wants him at home more. If memory serves doesn't Piper have a son trying to make it in MMA?
> 
> Just got done watching Mankind/Rock LMS on the IYH set. Love that match. Probably in the 4 star category.


Yeah, shows clips of Piper training him a bit.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ether said:


> Speaking of Flair, I watched that wife swap episode with Piper, terrible. What a fucking shame, Flair still spends too much money for strangers like Piper said, and when Piper called him out on that he got pissed. He doesn't spend any time with his new girlfriends kids. At the end when his girlfriend came home from the wife swap, all of the kids ran and hugged her and not Flair, that tells you something. Even Pipers wife said that he needs to spend more time with his family.


I watched it the other night, it was a good insight into their lives and their contrasting differences. Flair's case is sad though. 

Vid here if anyone else wants to watch it:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Found a pretty awesome gem out of my SD Six project:

*Kurt Angle & William Regal vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho, Smackdown 4/26/2001 - ***1/4
*
Y'all take a look at it, it's quite fun.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Now that the Goldberg DVD/Blu-ray is official for October, what matches do you guys think will be/want to see on it?

Aside from the obvious matches we know we'll see, I'd love to get:

-vs. Scott Hall - Nitro, 7/6/98
-vs. DDP - Halloween Havoc 1998
-vs. Kevin Nash - Spring Stampede 1999
-vs. Sting - Slamboree 1999
-vs. Sid Vicious - Halloween Havoc/Mayhem 1999
-vs. Scott Steiner - Fall Brawl 2000
-vs. The Rock - Backlash 2003
-vs. Triple H - Unforgiven 2003

Maybe another nifty little match from Nitro or Thunder, too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow, that Morrison vs Miz Falls Count Anywhere match is honest to goodness _great_. How did WWE _(or himself)_ screw up the Morrison push again? b/c with performances like this & crowd reactions gunning behind him, the last thought you would have had is he'd be released by November.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Wow, that Morrison vs Miz Falls Count Anywhere match is honest to goodness _great_. How did WWE _(or himself)_ screw up the Morrison push again? b/c with performances like this & crowd reactions gunning behind him, the last thought you would have had is he'd be released by November.


Three syllables for why: ME-LI-NA.

Shame though, he was awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What a god damn waste. This wasn't a beacon of light like how it was with Lashley flushing his career down the toilet. Due to him being god awful, but Morrison was going places without all the uber massive fanfare behind him. If only he wised up & WWE stuck with it; could have been a success.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

morrison is a great performer no doubt, but he sucks on the mic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Heel Morrison from ECW was anything but bad on the mic tbh. WWECW MIRACLES :vince

Morrison vs Cesaro would've been WIN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Morrison making jokes was still pretty bad, but he was funny so I think it cushioned the blow. His promos as ECW Champ however. My stars, Jeff Hardy sounds like Nick Bockwinkel by comparison.

Cesaro vs Morrison. My stars x2. I would have went insane.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the sake of it, imma point out some matches I've seen out of my SD Six project:

*Kurt Angle & William Regal vs. Chris Benoit, Smackdown 4/5/2001 
***
_Regal or not, time restraints never really brought out anything to it._


*Kurt Angle, Edge, Christian & William Regal vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho, Smackdown 4/21/2001 
**1/2*
_With 15 minutes, this would've been a MOTYC. They did nice with only 4._


*Kurt Angle & William Regal vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho, Raw 4/23/2001
***
_Meh. Fun, but their SD rematch is so much better._


*Kurt Angle & William Regal vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho, Smackdown 4/26/2001
***1/4*
_Like I said, really, really fun, and Angle shenanigans brought something to it. Awesome storytelling, nice flow, OK crowd, great gem. Fuck the finish, though._


*Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, 30-Minute Ultimate Submission, Backlash 2001 
***1/2*
_Angle/Benoit for 30 minutes was an idea that had me going FUUUUUCK. And, well, it was kinda pretty much a stretchered out match of theirs. The 1st 10 minutes were actually **** worthy: amazing storytelling there, with Benoit feeling uncertain and nice leg work and whatnot. The next 20 minutes though are dull as fuck. The tie breaker was OK. That 1st 1/3 made this._

*Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, 2 Out Of 3 Falls, Insurrextion 2001
****
_Typical stuff of theirs. 1st fall was nice, 2nd was meh, 3rd sucked. Decent overall. 'Nuff said._​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> Now that the Goldberg DVD/Blu-ray is official for October, what matches do you guys think will be/want to see on it?
> 
> Aside from the obvious matches we know we'll see, I'd love to get:
> 
> ...


I hope they put the match with Steiner I talked about months back: 



Spoiler: g



Big Booty DADDEH v. Bill Goldberg (Nitro 7/18/00)
I should watch a bunch of Golbderg because I am convinced the guy was a good wrestler. He's not a wrestler who can do anything and everything, but he was called on to be the squash monster babyface who does impressive power spots and makes every moment seem big and goddamn it he did just that. He can be a very good short term seller too, even a little thing like the sell of a stomp-kick thingy looked better than your average sell of a stomp-kick thingy. His power spots here were great; a super looking butterfly suplex, an amazing running shoulder block where he continued to sell the after-effects of a suplex, etc. The part near the beginning where he runs after Steiner and Steiner dodges, leaving Goldberg to quickly grab the ropes so he doesn't run himself into the turnbuckle was completely awesome and felt like a huge moment. Steiner does a fine job here and hits some really nice looking forearms to start the match, but I came away from this thinking I should watch more Goldberg. This is 2000 WCW, it has a shitty finish and shitty booking (Miller was referee, Booker came out, Nash came out...I turned the video off), but the match was fun as hell. Will somebody fucking tell me why Bill Goldberg isn't a good wrestler? He doesn't do everything perfectly, has his flaws, isn't the best at filling time, and I'm not suggesting he belongs in the discussion of best wrestlers, but there are so many 'Goldberg sucks' people that I'm starting to wonder if they've even watched any Goldberg.




Raven US title win is an absolute must. The Mark Henry WHC match from 03 on there would rule. Goldy/DDP re-match from 1999 should probably make it, too.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I hope they put the match with Steiner I talked about months back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Was it the cage match with Steiner? I didn't know they had a rematch.

Yeah, the match with Raven is a must, especially if it's the second match on the set (after his debut), and the match with Henry would be nice. It'd be cool to see the match with Batista, too, even though it's only a couple of minutes. I have a feeling the last match on the set will be against HHH at Unforgiven.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Steiner match wasn't in a cage, it was on Nitro and was like seven minutes but really fun. I think I flat out enjoyed it more than Fall Brawl even if I can't call it 'better'.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Revenge of the Taker match. You know what? I've never seen it. Bet it's spectacular.


It is. Quite underrated and forgotten too.



HayleySabin said:


> Wow, that Morrison vs Miz Falls Count Anywhere match is honest to goodness _great_. How did WWE _(or himself)_ screw up the Morrison push again? b/c with performances like this & crowd reactions gunning behind him, the last thought you would have had is he'd be released by November.


YES. Best TV match of 2011 in my books. Solid **** affair. And btw I've agreed with literally every single post you've made about the Falls Count Anywhere dvd.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Was waiting for someone to bring the wife swap up because I wanted to talk about it alittle. Insightfull, but the show is very scripted in general, there's always the city fast life family and then the home bodies. The way flair spends his money is idiotic to say the least, and tbh I'm shocked he still has that much money to style and profiln in the first place. His gf seems nothing more than a trophy pampered wife so he is probably headed to another divorce and gonna pay more child support so yea

Revenge of taker taker/foley match is awesome if we talking about that


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not sure if i have said before, but im actually a secret Goldberg mark (not as much as my mate though lol, he worships the guy and is indeed one of his heroes), but i enjoy watching him, yeah even hus fucking WWE run too, ive actually just laid my hands on a Goldberg In WCW Comp which i bought for my mate, but im likely to go through it myself too


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> Now that the Goldberg DVD/Blu-ray is official for October, what matches do you guys think will be/want to see on it?
> 
> Aside from the obvious matches we know we'll see, I'd love to get:
> 
> ...


vs Hall - Souled Out 99

Always wanted to see this.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It is. Quite underrated and forgotten too.
> 
> 
> YES. Best TV match of 2011 in my books. Solid **** affair. And btw I've agreed with literally every single post you've made about the Falls Count Anywhere dvd.


 Idk, don't get me wrong that match was really good. But I think it's got some tough competition against Orton/Christian I, Cena/Rey, Kane/Orton, Cody/Orton and I think Punk/Cena had a really solid match after Summerslam as well. I won't argue but just pointing out some of my favs.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

More content has been revealed for The Best of WWE at Madison Square Garden DVD/Blu-ray

WWE Championship Match
Superstar Billy Graham vs. Bruno Sammartino
27th June, 1977

Boot Camp Match
Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik
16th June, 1984

Triple H Returns
Raw – 7th January, 2002

Trish Stratus vs. Mickie James
Raw – 11th September, 2006



Here is a reminder of content that has already been revealed

Match for the Undisputed Heavyweight Wrestling Championship
WWE Champion, Bob Backlund vs. NWA Champion, Harley Race
22nd September, 1980

Andre the Giant & “Mr. Wonderful” Paul Orndorff vs. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper & “Cowboy” Bob Orton
10th August, 1985

Intercontinental Championship Match
Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. “Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase
29th December, 1991

Ladder Match for the Intercontinental Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon
WrestleMania X – 20th March, 1994

Stone Cold Stuns The Boss
Raw – 22nd September, 1997

1st Ever Tag Team Tables Match
The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardy Boyz
Royal Rumble – 23rd January, 2000

#1 Contender Triple Threat Match
Triple H vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Jericho
Raw – 7th August, 2000

Booker T Attacks Mr. McMahon
Raw – 25th June, 2001

John Cena Returns in the Royal Rumble Match
Royal Rumble – 27th January, 2008

Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/new-content-best-of-wwe-at-msg-dvd/46115/


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sheik/Slaughter boot camp match is the tits! 

I was wondering watching the unreleased Bret set the other day there has to be enough unreleased HBK & Taker matches for unreleased sets. Anyone wanna take a stab at the best unreleased HBK matches? Taker too?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Sheik/Slaughter boot camp match is the tits!


I've never seen this. Can't wait to get my hands on this set


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Getting ready to watch HBK/Nash from IYH. I love this match. By far the best Nash match of all time I think. This was the one and only PPV I have ever been to live.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Getting ready to watch HBK/Nash from IYH. I love this match. By far the best Nash match of all time I think. This was the one and only PPV I have ever been to live.


I still think his match with Bret at Survivor Series 95 is his best match but yeah. I agree that his match with Michaels at IYH: Good friends, better enemies is wonderful. ★★★★1/2 for it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Lord Flvcko said:


> I still think his match with Bret at Survivor Series 95 is his best match but yeah. I agree that his match with Michaels at IYH: Good friends, better enemies is wonderful. ★★★★1/2 for it.



I got a lot of love for that match as well. Both are great and I can't stand Nash.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Survivor Series 2011:

Ziggler/Morrison: ***1/2
Beth/Eve: *1/4
Team Orton/Team Barrett: **1/4
Henry/Show: **3/4
ADR/Punk: ****1/4
Partners In A Lifetime/Awesome Truth: **1/4

Amazing show. The wrestling alone was average with only two truly PPV worthy matches. However, it's _everything else_ that makes it so special. It felt big, it WAS big. The awesome moments this show produced were countless. First and foremost, it was the 25th Survivor Series in motherfucking MSG. Then, the show itself - the rabid crowd, the Ziggler/Morrisson match itself, the GIGANTIC "We Want Ryder" chants, the Glam Slam off the top rope... I'd be here all day. Just a super memorable event.

Funny how 2012 was the opposite: the wrestling was very good, but the show was forgettable overall.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Ziggler/Morrison was sick as was Punk/ADR


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Is that Punk/ADR match _that_ good? Can't remember a thing about it apart from the finish.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't think anything was that good from SS 2011. Punk/ADR was probably the best match and I'd only stick around *** on it. Main event makes me wanna stab people. Though lots of things do.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Survivor series 12 >	11

Absolutely no point of cena/rock vs truth/miz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Survivor Series 12 was horrible. Thinking about it, I don't care about anything from 11 either other than The Rock's return. Mark vs Show was good too but the DQ finish was stupid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember SS '12 at all lol. *googles it* Oh yeah Sheamus/Show was on it. Good stuff, but a step behind their HIAC match. Nothing else is worth mentioning.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Most, if not all, of the late 2012 PPVs were crap in terms of build up and storyline reasons. Hell in a Cell was below average in terms of wrestling IMO. I used to defend the main event but just like Rock/Punk I ending, the ending to the HIAC match was random and did not develop nothing. Although Big Show and Sheamus was a great match tbf.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Sheik/Slaughter boot camp match is the tits!
> 
> I was wondering watching the unreleased Bret set the other day there has to be enough unreleased HBK & Taker matches for unreleased sets. Anyone wanna take a stab at the best unreleased HBK matches? Taker too?


Hmm... Off the top pf my head:

Michaels had singles matches with Piper and Ted Dibiase in the early 90s that were on some CHV tapes. From 1993 you've got the July Monday Night Raw match with Jannetty. The awesome tag with Diesel vs Kid/Razor from Action Zone 1994 was only released on DVD by SilverVision's HBK tagged classic. There's one other Bret Hart match not released from early1994 but it's not that great. He had another match with Davey Boy in early 1996 that's never been released - it's the match that the cover shot of Shawn on the Finishers DVD is taken from. 1996 also has two Raw matches with Hunter and Austin which might be of interest. Shawn had a ladder match with Goldust in Torono in '96 that was filmed (there's a fancam of it online and you can see the WWF camer crew at ringside). I've a feeling they might have footage of the dark match he had with Mankind after In Your House 12 as they often filmed these and included them as extras on the VHS releases and there's also footage of Shawn's entrance on one of his 'Tell Me a Lie' videos. They might also have shot a three way between him, Sid and Bret from Toronto in 1997 which took place after Raw finished. 

I can't really think of much else pre 2002. From his comeback I guess most of the stuff that might be worth watching would be from Raw but I can only think of his 2003 WrestleMania rematch with Jericho that SilverVision included on a an exclusive 'Best of Raw' set. 

I quite like HBK and he's always been one of my favourites since I was a young mark but I don't think he was as good as Bret when it came to having a great match with anybody - Shawn was always good at making himself look good! 


I doubt there's 8hrs of unreleased Taker matches worth putting on a DVD but others might disagree.

edit:






I always loved this little squash mash from Superstars and can still remember it from the first time :i saw it when it aired. I was such a HBK mark thaat I can remember asking my dad to buy me a pair of zebra print trousers! Anyway, Shawn just breezes through the match and at one point lays across the top turnbuckle to have a rest and show off. The finish was em, unique to say the least with Shawn superkickin Brawler and then counting him out with the ref sliding back in before the 10 count. It'd be a laugh to see it released on DVD  but again, compared to Bret who could make each match look real Michaels often just showboated for the hell of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For unreleased stuff (both HBK and Undertaker), TV matches would easily fill multiple 3 disc sets.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SS 2011 is more about the moments than the wrestling, that's what y'all need to search for.

@Oliver-64, TLC 2012 was anything but crap imo.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Callamus said:


> For unreleased stuff (both HBK and Undertaker), TV matches would easily fill multiple 3 disc sets.


The Bret DVD had some gems on it but I can't think of 3discs worth of Michaels matches outside of those I listed tbh. 

I'd recommend people track down a copy of SilverVision's 'Hits from the Heartbreak Kid' tagged classic DVD as it's a decent compilation of his 93/94 stuff sans ladder match. As for Undertaker I'd be interested to see a list of 20-25 non-PPV matches not released before that are worth paying 20quid for.


----------



## Berbz (Jun 24, 2013)

New around these parts and I believe my first post in this thread, so hello to all.

Does anyone else love Pat Patterson vs. Slaughter from the early 80s in Madison Square Garden? It's seriously got to be one of the most under appreciated matches of all time. I rarely hear anyone talk about it. If you haven't watched it, give it a watch (Provided the video below) and tell me what you think.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> Rewatched Survivor Series 2011:
> 
> Ziggler/Morrison: ***1/2
> Beth/Eve: *1/4
> ...


Agreed. Fun is the word to describe this ppv for me. It was a fun night.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Cult (Jul 21, 2012)

Who would you guys rank as your top 5 workers currently in the WWE?


----------



## Berbz (Jun 24, 2013)

The Cult said:


> Who would you guys rank as your top 5 workers currently in the WWE?


In no particular order I would have:

CM Punk
John Cena
Randy Orton
Daniel Bryan
Chris Jericho


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Cult said:


> Who would you guys rank as your top 5 workers currently in the WWE?




Cena
Punk
Orton
Ziggler
Jericho


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Just found this in the closet. Man this is a fucking classic. Soon as I get to a VHS gonna give this a rewatch. This was the first Wrestling related video I ever bought. $5 at a flea market. I thought HBK was the coolest thing ever at this time. Off the top of my head I remember this being just a recap of a few matches on RAW and PPV during 95. Not in full but long enough to enjoy. Its hosted by Dox Hendrix aka Michael Hayes and had a cool tips video for that silly Wrestlemania arcade game at the end.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Punk
Bryan 
Ziggler
Jericho
Orton

Before anyone says anything, no I'm not just hating Cena, but idk if he's top 5 right now. Top ten definitely, but WWE's talent roster is among it's best ever in terms of in ring talent. You could make an argument for guys like Del Rio and Sheamus. The only reason Rey isn't here is his injuries, otherwise easy top 5 (maybe ever).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Boot Camp Match
> Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik
> 16th June, 1984


Welllllll possibly the best WWE match ever is now on this so.....



Berbz said:


> Does anyone else love Pat Patterson vs. Slaughter from the early 80s in Madison Square Garden?


Yeah that's outstanding as well. The blading was unbelievable, blood went from Slaughter's forehead to his elbow joint within like three seconds.

IDK about top 5 workers in WWE currently. I;d have Cesaro at 1 and Bryan at 2, though. Sheamus is probably #3 right now.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Rhyno WWE project​*







In the mist of the InVasion angle, there was a feud between Rhyno and Chris Jericho. It was mostly about Stephanie McMahon vs Jericho with Rhyno being the thrid-wheel (sound familar?). I must say though, it was a really good feud. It also gave us a memorable moment for Rhyno in his career and also a memorable Smakcdown moment which is Rhyno goring Jericho through the Smackdown set:








Good stuff. Rhyno and Jericho had a lot of tag encounters against each other leading up to their match at Summerslam 2001 which should be fun to review them. 


*Rhyno & The Dudley Boyz vs Chris Jericho & Edge and Christian- WWF Smackdown 8/2/01*

Nice back and fourth between Jericho and Rhyno to start off the match with Jericho taking Rhyno down with a missile dropkick. Jericho tags Christian in and they both work on Rhyno with kicks to the chest. Christian goes for an Irish whip on Rhyno but Rhyno reverses it and takes Christian down with a clothesline. Rhyno tags in D-Von who strikes Christian in the rib cage area with a punch. D-Von Irish whips Christian to the ropes in an attempt for a clothesline but Christian ducks under D-Von's legs. Christian gives D-Von an Atomic drop and takes D-Von down with a dropkick. Christian now tags in Edge who goes for a double team on D-Von. Edge goes for a pin but Bubba Ray breaks up the pin. D-Von now gets in control after Bubba Ray pulled Edge's hair and throws him down on the mat behind the referee's back. D-Von tags in Bubba Ray with Bubba Ray now in control. Edge tries to fight back but Bubba Ray strikes him back down and tags in D-Von. Both the Dudleyz give Edge a double Flapjack. In goes Rhyno who gets tagged in by D-Von. Rhyno strikes Edge down who desperately tries to get back up to make the tag. Rhyno attempts to hit Edge with a powerbomb but Edge counters out of it and hits Rhyno with a spear. Now's the hot tag as Edge tags in Jericho with Rhyno tagging in D-Von. Jericho cleans house and tries to hit the Lionsault on D-Von but Bubba Ray strikes Jericho from behind. In a funny spot, The Dudleyz set up for the Wassup but Jericho reverses Bubba Ray into it instead with Edge knocking D-Von off the top rope and hitting the Wassup on Bubba Ray instead. It's hard to explain but it's really funny. Jericho gives D-Von the Walls of Jericho with Rhyno giving Jericho a Gore. D-Von pins Jericho for the 123 and scores the win for his team. Great 6 man tag match. It set up the feud between Jericho and Rhyno with did it's job well. 

*Rating:* ★★★1/2 


*Rhyno & Booker T vs The Rock & Chris Jericho- WWF RAW Is WAR- 8/13/01*

The match starts off with a great back and fourth between Rhyno and Jericho with Jericho taking Rhyno down with a missile dropkick. The Rock gets tagged in who hammers away on Rhyno and follows it with a clothesline. The Rock taunts Booker T which gets Booker T heated. The Rock tags Jericho back in and Jericho hits Rhyno with a one-handed bulldog. Booker T gives Jericho a clothesline, giving Rhyno the upperhand. Rhyno tags in Booker T and Booker T hits Jericho with a swift kick. Jericho then takes Booker T down with a Flapjack. Both Jericho and Booker T crawl toward their teammates and a tag is made with Jericho tagging in The Rock along with Booker T tagging in Rhyno. The Rock hits Rhyno with his usual punch combo and gives him a belly to belly suplex. The Rock sets up for the Rock Bottom but Booker T attacks him from behind. The Rock gets back up and hits his punch combo on Booker T but The Rock falls out of the ring by Rhyno. Booker T gets tagged in by Rhyno and gets the upperhand on The Rock. Booker T tags Rhyno back in and Rhyno strikes The Rock down with punches. The Rock is finally able to get the upperhand when he hits Rhyno with a flying clothesline. The Rock tags in Y2J for the hot tag with the usual babyface cleaning house tag formula. Jericho goes towards Booker T in what looked like an attempt at a springboard missile dropkick but Jericho botches it and knocks Booker T off the apron instead. Jericho goes for a cover on Rhyno but Booker T breaks it up and knocks the WWF referee out of the ring. The Rock now hammering on Booker T strikes him out of the ring. Meanwhile, Jericho and Rhyno are still going at it with Jericho taking Rhyno down with an elbow to the face. Jericho goes for a Lionsault on Rhyno but Stephanie McMahon hits Jericho over the head with a steel chair. As Rhyno pins Jericho, an Alliance referee runs down to the ring to count the pin but The Rock drags him out of the ring and strikes him in the face. The Rock then gets inside the ring and hits a Spinebuster on Rhyno. Rock goes to give Rhyno the People's Elbow but Booker T drags him out of the ring and throws him over the announce table. Now inside the ring, Jericho hits the Walls of Jericho on Rhyno with Rhyno tapping out but there isn't a referee in the ring. A WWF referee finally runs down to the ring but Shane McMahon literally bulldozes the WWF referee down to the floor. Stephanie McMahon gets inside the ring and grabs Jericho by the hair. Stephanie tries to slap Jericho but Jericho grabs her hand and goes to put her in the Walls of Jericho. Rhyno gives Jericho a low-blow followed with a schoolboy. An Alliance referee gets inside the ring and counts the pin. Great tag team match. So much great workers involved in this match which is a given. This tag match felt like a wild chaotic brawl between the two tag teams with a lot of interferences from Stephanie and Shane. Granted, the multiple referees running down the ring did get a bit annoying but it made sense given the InVasion angle. Great match that helped build up the feud between the two teams leading to their match at Summerslam 2001. The rowdy crowd also helped things. 

*Rating:* ★★★3/4


*Rhyno & Rob Van Dam vs Chris Jericho & Jeff Hardy- WWF Smackdown 8/16/01*

This tag match is a build up to Rhyno vs Chris Jericho along with RVD vs Jeff Hardy for the Hardcore title at Summerslam 2001. Stephanie McMahon who looks ridiculously hot is at ringside in Rhyno & RVD's corner. Chris Jericho and RVD starts this one off. They go back and fourth with both men countering each other's every move until Jericho hits RVD with a flying forearm. Jericho goes over to Rhyno and knocks him off the ring apron. Jericho hits RVD with a neckbreaker and goes for a cover but RVD kicks out. Jericho pulls RVD by the hair and goes over to Jeff Hardy for a tag. Hardy and RVD go back and fourth for a bit with Hardy giving RVD a flip legdrop on his back. Hardy goes over to RVD who crawls over to the ropes and gets tossed face-first onto the second turnbuckle by RVD. Rhyno gets tagged in by RVD with Rhyno hammering away on Jeff Hardy. Hardy is able to hit RVD with a reverse Enziguri and tags in Y2J. Jericho is in control for a bit and goes up on the top rope but Stephanie McMahon grabs Jericho by the legs. Jericho jumps back down and eats a running shoulder thrust from Rhyno. Rhyno hits Jericho with a running kick to the face. Rhyno tags in RVD. Jericho gets hit with a Rolling Thunder by RVD. Rob Van Dam goes for a cover but Jericho kicks out at 2. RVD gives Jericho two running shoulder thrusts, does a flip, and goes for another running shoulder thrust. RVD Irish whips Y2J to the corner ropes and attempts to give Jericho a backbreaker but Jericho reverses out of it and gives RVD a sick German suplex. Jericho tags in Jeff Hardy for a hot tag and cleans house and hits RVD with the Whisper in the Wind. Rhyno from out of nowhere takes Jeff Hardy out with a Gore. The match ends when RVD places a ladder in between the ropes and goes on the top rope, dropping onto the ladder so it would collide into Jeff Hardy's face behind the referee's back. RVD goes for a pin and score the pinfall. Good tag match. This was obviously to set up for the Summerslam 2001 matches which was 3 days away from this match taking place and it served it's purpose. Jericho vs Rhyno has heated very well over the weeks but I wish they wouldn't have had so much Stephanie McMahon involvement in this feud which became a problem with the InVasion angle as a whole; too much McMahon involvement.

*Rating:* ★★★1/4


Rhyno vs Chris Jericho- Summerslam 2001

I wasn't a fan of this match at all. This was a really dull match. Their styles just didn't click in this match. The first half of the was was flat with dull work between the two but it definitely picked up toward the second half. There some good stuff to this match like Jericho going on the top rope from outside the ring for a flying splash on Rhyno but Rhyno hitting Jericho with a Gore instead and Rhyno giving Jericho the Walls of Jericho but other than that, I can't think of anything noteworthy from this match. It's not a bad match at all but definitely a disappointing one given the two wrestlers involved.

*Rating:* ★★3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

where is this hbk unreleased dvd ? foever-unchained wheres that list you have too lazy too search
--------
svs 11 is a very fun show like ost of 2011 post july, 2012 ppvs besides mania and ex were dog shit


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Cult said:


> Who would you guys rank as your top 5 workers currently in the WWE?


Danielson
Cesaro
Sheamus
Mark Henry
CM Punk

Would NXT guys count too? b/c a good portion of those lads are amazingly consistent week in and week out. Sami Zayn having one of the best matches all year only in his 3rd or 4th match says it all.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> It is. Quite underrated and forgotten too.
> 
> 
> YES. Best TV match of 2011 in my books. Solid **** affair. And btw I've agreed with literally every single post you've made about the Falls Count Anywhere dvd.


I must scope it out. One of those random big matches that I just never got around to seeing.

I'd probably agree with that. Well, there are a few in contention with it: Cena vs Mysterio, Punker vs Cena in Canada, the 10 man tag, & Henry vs Danielson in the cage all off the top of my head.

Agreeing again? Ah shucks. 

----------

Survivor Series 2011 sucks.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

My top 5

cesaro
dbryan
punk
henry
ziggler

dont forget punk/ziggler from nov 11


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I probably could have replaced Dolph with Punker atm. Considering Dolph's performance at Payback > Punk's crapfest vs Jericho. I kind of threw in all the x-factors behind each guy and how they've consistently performed from a recent scale. Punk has had good matches vs Del Rio + is always quality behind the stick/with his character. So he remains atop the pecking order. Fact Dolph seems to be gaining more and more momentum that's sufficently strong & essential to him is grand all in of itself. 

Same goes for Henry - in regards to Punk. He hasn't even had a match since Extreme Rules yet he's still one of the top flight guys you see weekly.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best workers in WWE: Cesaro, Bryan, Orton, Christian and Sheamus. Ziggler comes after, then there's Del Rio and Mizark too. Cena when he's on his game can reach the top 5.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I usually dont bash punk but he seems so lifeless theses days, his promos have not been bad but havent set the world on fire. I like that he a tweener again but still


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My top 5 in the ring, in no order, would be Bryan, Cesaro, Sheamus, Ziggler, and Jericho. Punk may be wrestler of the year still (although I think I'd put Bryan above him now), but while I thought his match at Payback with Jericho was great, his individual performance in all his matches haven't been up to par with the stuff he did earlier this year and going back to 2012. He doesn't seem to be completely in it anymore and/or he's out of ring shape, but I don't know that I could, for now, put him above those men above. I will say though that he looked the best on Raw and SD this week he's looked since his return, so maybe it was just ring rust. He still doesn't seem back to 100% yet, but as long as he is by Summerslam, it's all good. 

By the way, I am so hyped for MITB. Both of the contract matches alone have me sold. The whole all-heels MITB intrigues me a ton, and then the WWE Title-MITB... well... come fucking on. PUNK! SHEAMUS! BRYAN! CHRISTIAN! ORTON! RVD! Oh, and Kane's there too. But there's so much potential. And tbh, I really don't care who wins either MITB. There's no one I'm really against winning either MITB. I mean, for the WHC one Swagger's probably the one I'd want the least, and the WWE title one it's Sheamus, but I wouldn't mind them winning at all tbh. 

And I'm not entirely sure who they're going to have win. Punk's definitely not winning the MITB as he has the Lesnar stuff and I can't see him carrying the contract into that. Then there's Kane who has no chance either. Christian I give less than a 1% chance, and RVD has a better chance than that. Smart money is on Bryan, Orton, or Sheamus, and I see it going to Bryan, with Sheamus having the second best shot. 

SD MITB... who the fuck knows? Everyone's saying Ambrose but considering that the World Title is a glorified mid-card title right now, I can see any of the guys having a chance at winning it. Rhodes I think has the weakest chance. Best chance, despite what I just said, would probably be Ambrose, but honestly I think Barrett has almost just as good a shot. However I don't see him winning the title itself and instead I see him being the first man to cash in on a weakened champion and losing. Would suck, but oh well. I've given up on Barrett by this point. I think after those two Sandow has a decent shot of winning, followed by Cesaro, Swagger, and then Fandango.

And then of course there's Henry/Cena for the belt, which I'd be more excited for if I thought Henry had a shot at winning. But right now it looks like they may be lining up Bryan to win MITB and challenge Cena at Summerslam, which leaves Henry out. Oh well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't say lifeless. Not at all. His match with Jericho was just poorly worked. Other than that the guy is still great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I doubt Sheamus wins the All-Star match. He seems directionless and just thrown into it to add star power and get him something. It's between Bryan and Orton to me. As good as a Bryan win is, I go back to being a mark and root for Orton! Would be so awesome if he won.

Don't care about Raw tomorrow but MITB I'm waiting for.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 11/14/2002 :homer


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bryan by all means should win the WWE title MITB. I wouldn't really complain with Sheamus winning but it'd seem like a stupid move to not give it to Bryan. I haven't really had much interest in Punk the past year now, though I was actually having more fun with him as babyface champion than heel champion so IDK. Jericho winning it would stink. He's a guy who comes back, looks good twice and then starts being average or below. I don't care any more. Orton winning it would urn me off of the product for the rest of the year. Kane winning it would be the worst thing on the planet. I can't fathom them giving it to the much less over partner of the rightful winner.

Cesaro winning the other one would blow my mind. You have no idea how much I'd go apeshit. Even then I don't see it happening. I think the unexplainable Swagger push is over, so I doubt Jack is winning. I don't really see Sandow winning but I like him and he hasn't really gotten that 'sub-big push' chance so I guess I wouldn't complain. Fandango's music was hot for a month and then it got mainstream and became less cool. He ain't winning (and if he does then fuck everything McMahon-related). I'd hate for Rhodes to win it because he's boring as dog piss and is almost the least deserving guy in the match. I think Ambrose is almost horribly overrated by this point even if I kinda like him. Seeing him win would be fine and unsurprising, though. The Shield's aura and everything seem to have died down ever since he won the US Title. Sometimes they don't feel like a group of three to me any more. Probably just me. If Barrett wins I will be fucking furious. I'd rather have Henry lose the WWE title match cleanly than see Barrett win the MITB in any way, shape or form. Can't stand his existence on TV at this point.

I'd like Henry to win the title because (A), Henry would win the fucking title, and (B), we could get Henry/Bryan again. He won't win clean IF he does win (and I'm pretty fucking sure he won't win), but I'd much, much, much rather see Henry/Bryan again than Cena/Bryan. I honestly do not give much of a shit about Cena/Bryan, I need a heel. No reason it can't be great, but I'm not positive I'll watch the show it's on, and won't really be truly amped for it.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

can't believe i got spoilered for a ufc event here. i hope he fucking burns.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm all eyes and ears for Henry Vs Bryan again, those guys have some of the sickest chemistry of this era from their EPIC cage encounter in late 2011 to their awesome lumberjack match in early 2012, those guys just deliver when they're together and they mesh better than most combinations in the company that I can currently think of. 

Top Five Workers in the company at this very moment (FULL TIME)?

1. Monday Night Raw & Friday Night Smackdown starring BRYAN DANIELSON
2. MIZARK "Demi Gawd" Henry
3. Antonio Cesaro
4. Sheamus
5. CM Punk

Punk has fell off as of late TBH, not really feeling his work since his return. Hoping he steps it up really soon for his blockbuster feud with BROCK.

BROCKBUSTER.

:brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton is my pick for the WWE Championship match as dreadful as it sounds. Danielson is whom I want to get the big win. I think WWE will use the briefcase in a lower tier fashion much like Cena and then have Danielson in pursuit for the gold by different means. I don't agree, but that's what I have in my head. Danielson winning is EASILY the only logical way to end the match though. I mean c'mon, that's plain as day.

My pick to win & who I want to win the World Championship match is easily Cesaro. Do it WWE. So, obligatory mark out rivalry with Yeah1993 if Cesaro wins has begun. You win the Henry celebration if he gets the gold. I'll bow out there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think Danielson should win the title at Mania.

I want that Danielson (MITB Winner) Vs Punk (Rumble Winner) Vs Cena (WWE Champion) main event DAMN IT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hey, nice list, KOK.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What more can I say?

MINDS :gaga


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booyakasha. (Y)

Do believe it's time to take a dip back into another random wrestling set. Should probably go through with disc three of Falls Count Anywhere. Trips vs Umaga. And it's rare I get excited for anything Triple H. I remember hoping so much that the WWE fans didn't vote for the Steel Cage match at Cyber Sunday. Couldn't believe the fans wised up and voted for Street Fight. It paid off iirc. Been way, way too long since I last saw that show. Everything on it was good _(in my mind)_ as a matter of fact. Including matches with Miz, Kennedy, & MVP.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gonna join you Cody with that hhh/umaga :agree:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H vs Umaga street fight is kind of dull. 

Trips was Trips where he did his run of the mill gimmick match work and I was bored. Umaga had his few moment during it, but he didn't make it special like he usually did. It was ok. Nothing like how I remembered it being. I guess I just can't enjoy much with Triple H these days.

Disc three of Falls Count Anywhere has been pretty bad, tbf, even if I'm getting a slight kick out of it no matter what, haha. Trips vs Michaels from SummerSlam '02 is average. The premiere match where Triple H on the offensive during a workover period is very uneventful. Triple H vs Nash from Insurexxtion is so bad. It's something straight out of WCW or TNA with all the random interference. Fun when you turn your mind off and accept the wrestlecrap, yeah, but it's still a bad match. I can enjoy it for the negatives while bringing them all to light. Then Melina vs Mickie James Falls Count Anywhere is crap. Four minutes and it is filled with mediocre convuluted spots and comedy moments. Candice Michelle's tits were seen. Yawn. That's happened a ton in life. Use google. Then next was the street fight from Cyber Sunday and I harped on that.

Cena vs Umaga is next. Street Fight. I hope this is pretty fun. While this set still retains its glory of being a nice "shut up and watch" set, I have to mention how disc three is probably the weakest so far. Then again, disc one did have the 29 minute street fight from Uncensored '96 and that won't win any praise itself. Well, who cares. Can't say WWE was wrong from putting the additions on here. It fits the theme well. It all depends if the match(es) is/are for you.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top Five Workers:

Daniel Bryan
CM Punk
Christian
Antonio Cesaro
Seth Rollins

Lord have mercy, those indie kids really are taking over. :bryan unk :rollins

Some random match reviews for things I recently watched.

*Hollywood Blondes vs. 2 Cold Scorpio/Marcus Bagwell 5/9/93
***3/4*



Spoiler: flashfunk



Never really got a chance to ever look in-depth into the Hollywood Blondes outside of a couple big matches (mainly the overrated Flair/Anderson 2/3 Falls Tag). Saw this match recommended on prowrestlingonly.com, so I decided to give it a shot. The beginning of this match has one of the best examples of heel tag team work I have ever seen. Pillman and Austin took turns with hiding a foreign object from the referee while the faces beg the ref to keep checking them. These guys are so good at playing with the crowd. When the match starts, we get some great domination from the heels, which brings me to the conclusion that Austin's most underrated aspect was not his "technical" ability, but his work in a tag team environment. The man just "gets" how to do all the tag tropes (blind tags, cheap shots, etc.). I've always preferred Pillman as a face in the ring, but he also knew how to get under the skin of the audience.

One guy that I am honestly shocked that we do not talk about very often here is Scorpio, who is so underappreciated. He's the one that gets the hot tag here, which makes perfect sense as he is the one with the exciting crowd-pleasing offense. The man seems to have a very good grasp with what being a face entails. His charisma always shows up in the ring with his flashy moves and taunts, and because he is black and his name isn't Ezekiel Jackson, he is very entertaining. I should also show my respect to Bagwell, who I never really liked in all honesty. He did a great job flopping around whenever the heels but him in a submission or attacked him with a weapon/towel. Never thought Bagwell had it in him to do all these aerial offensive maneuvers or maintain a fast pace, but consider me shocked.

Apparently these two teams had three other matches in 1993. Looks like I got some watching to do. Match goes to the 15 minute time limit, but in those 15 minutes we get no lull period whatsoever. Can't wait to watch more of these guys, especially if they are as fun as this match.



*Brothers of Destruction vs. Power Trip Backlash 2001
*****



Spoiler: hhh



Haven't seen this match since it first aired, and the most I remembered as a kid was how upset I was seeing Kane and Undertaker lose to the newly turned Austin and the GOAT heel HHH. Whenever I looked for show reviews for Backlash, I always saw this match rated very low and deemed as nothing more than an average Attitude Era brawl, but over here at this thread, it has seen some love. No harm in giving this match the old college try.

Once again, we get to see Austin do his thing as a tag team specialist. Every time he gets the tag, he always has the urge to be as rough and aggressive as possible instead of making his heel control segments turn into generic filler. At first glance, this is sort of your typical Attitude Era main event, but the first thing to take note of is that almost all the action stays in the ring instead of it taking place outside the ring, which is honestly one of the most annoying things in the WWE-style main event. The second thing to note here is the consistent limb work based on Kane's elbow. This isn't just something that is abandoned as the match goes in its finishing stage; HHH and Austin attack that limb whenever they feel that the momentum will be shifted. I also loved how Undertaker only tagged in Kane only when he had the advantage as a way to look out for his brother.

As the match progressed, I was waiting for the classic overbooking and nonsense to occur, but I'm happy that they saved it for the very end instead of starting it during the middle portion of the match. The ending inflicted the desired feeling with the way that it made me feel sympathetic for the two monsters. Everyone looked strong in this match, and it really makes me wonder why we don't get more tag main events.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rollins plug. Awesome. I probably would have said him if I grouped Rollins with the rest of the Shield. Didn't think collaborative efforts meant what the topic was suggesting. He's plenty great. Always has been so I'm not surprised. He should easily be a star. I know he has the talent to do so. Not to mention he's been the star of almost every promotion he's worked for. 

Rollins is the future. Or I can only, truly only, hope for. Being a mega fan since I got into the indies doesn't blind me, I swear. :side:


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

> Boot Camp Match
> Sgt. Slaughter vs. The Iron Sheik
> 16th June, 1984


Not surprising that they add it to the set, they pretty much had to or there would be a backlash from fans


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man that Scorpio tag in fantastic. Best Blondes match for sure. What I said a year and a half ago- 



> The Hollywood Blondes v 2 Cold Scorpio/Marcus Bagwell (Worldwide 5/8/93)
> --Not even my hatred for Bagwell prevented me from loving this. I'm going to try to talk about everything I liked but I'll probably forget fifteen things because of how much water made up this tidal wave of greatness. I'll start with how awesome the weapon stuff early on was. You get a lot of weapon-play in matches, but Pillman shoving the [insert what I thought was a bar of soap] into different areas of clothing so the referee would never find it was as good a weapon shtick as I've seen. Would have cool of him to keep it instead of giving it to Austin so he didn't get his his arse handed to him by Bagwell and 2 COLD SCORPIO. Scorpio looked really good on offense and the crowd jumped for his shit. Bagwell looked replaceable, but he was a good guy to be the hot tag to run around clobberin' people up, and the way he fell after the towel wrapped around his neck looked nasty. The time limit expiring disappointed me in a marky way and I was totally pissed that there were any commercials. I may actually be the low voter on this, but it's definitely top 50 material and I'd gladly call it better than any match I saw from 2011. Just everything I want in a tag team match.


They have at least one other match that rules as well. SCORPIO! Scorpio's 1993 >>>>>>>>>>> HHH's 2000.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

How good is Bigelow-Bret from KOTR in star expression?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the other Blondes match vs Scorpio & Bagwell that I saw; not the one mentioned. Scorpio was a talented cat. While in his prime. Anyone who tries to pass him off today is living with nostalgia vision.

Triple B vs Hart KOTR is great. So, where ever that left star ratings for most, go from there. It's worth your time.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

What makes Mark Henry a top 5 worker in the company *right now?*. What has he does this year to even warrant that position? I was just looking at this years PPV's, and he's only appeared in 3, Elimination Chamber, WrestleMania and Extreme Rules. Henry's performance in the Elimination Chamber was great and I'll give him praise for that, but his matches at WrestleMania and Extreme Rules both sucked. I can't remember any good TV matches from him either this year and he's been gone for some of the year. Unless I'm missing some good TV match he's had, he hasn't had a good in-ring performance since February in the Elimination Chamber, and here we are in July calling him one of the best workers in the company *right now.* Genuinely curious why, I think the people who just enjoy his work are putting them in their top 5 despite the fact that Henry hasn't done shit pretty much all year. The question might as well be ''who's your top 5 favorite in-ring guys''.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

It depends how you want to classify a worker, I guess. Henry's character work this year has blown everyone else out of the water. Even during a match that isn't particularly great (i.e. Ryback Mania), Henry is still tops.

Bryan
Cesaro
Punk
Henry
Rollins

I could swap Rollins for Jericho, Ziggler, or Sheamus, but Rollins has just been fantastic this year. In his individual work during the six man tags, and all of The Shield work. It's nice to have another fresh face around the top of the pile. Given the opportunity to work more singles matches, I think he'd give anyone a run for their money right now. Guy has improved so much since signing with the 'E and it's tremendous.

Christian returning makes things more interesting as well, and hopefully Rey comes back on form.

Cena has been wishy-washy in '13, like he was in 2012.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Mark Henry hasn't had a good match this year. Why are people putting him in the top 5 workers this year? 

His promos have been good, But his matches have mostly sucked this year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 workers this year:

Bryan
Punk
Rollins
Cesaro
Jericho

For curiosity sake, TLC 2012 or Payback 2013?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fluze said:


> How good is Bigelow-Bret from KOTR in star expression?


So glad you asked, as I fucking LOVED that match:



Spoiler: My review



*King of the Ring Finals
*Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
_King of the Ring '93_

I've been on a Bret binge as of late since watching The Dungeon Collection, so I said what the hell, let's turn on _The Best of King of the Ring _on Netflix. My GOD what a great decision. The major story coming into this is that Bret has had to wrestle two long, grueling matches against Razor Ramon & Mr. Perfect (classic), while Bam Bam had a 5 minute match in the first round against Jim Duggan & then a 2nd round bye thanks to Luger & Tatanka going to a time limit draw. Clearly Bret is the underdog on so many levels here. 

I'm not gonna lie, not everyone is going to love this as much as I did, it's probably a good 15 minutes of isolation and back work from Bam Bam, but this is the kind of structure I enjoy. Bigelow does nothing but high angle back suplexes and a bunch of different bearhug/backbreaker variations for several minutes until we go to the outside where he takes a sweet looking bump into the guardrail. He manages to get back the upperhand and catches Bret flying off the apron and drills him back first into the ringpost. Bam Bam sneaks back into the ring, allowing Luna Vachon to creep down to ringside and nail Bret in the back with a steel chair. Easy pickins for the Beast from the East. He rolls Bret back in, hits the big flying headbutt off the top rope, and 1-2-3. Bam Bam Bigelow is your King of the Ring! But wait...

Earl Hebner runs into the ring like a madman and demands the match be restarted because he saw Luna's interference. So that it does. Whatever, fine with Bigelow. Back to bearhugs! Couple more minutes of grueling backwork until FINALLY Bret is able to mount a comeback, hits a big back suplex, throws the big man outside and leaps on top of him with the flying body press. Big flurry back in the ring from the Hitman as he hits the signature flying clothesline, bulldog, and tries to set up for the sharpshooter, but HELL NO. Bigelow's having none of that and kicks him away. Couple nice nearfalls here as they counter each other's moves and we wind up with Bret leaping from the middle rope and getting the victory roll on Bam Bam for the 1-2-3. (a finish you saw a lot of in their matches). Bret Hart is the TRUE 1993 King of the Ring winner!

As basic as this match really is, I think it's utterly fantastic. Bigelow's weardown and control segment was excellent, the story of Bret having to overcome so many odds and fight off the beast was amazing, and the sheer execution of everything was so well done. In my eyes, an underrated classic.

***** 1/4*​


​



HayleySabin said:


> Triple H vs Umaga street fight is kind of dull.
> 
> Trips was Trips where he did his run of the mill gimmick match work and I was bored. Umaga had his few moment during it, but he didn't make it special like he usually did. It was ok. Nothing like how I remembered it being. I guess I just can't enjoy much with Triple H these days.
> 
> ...


Well, we agreed on everything until this. haha. I loved the Trips/Umaga Street Fight despite the slower pacing. I actually thought it was one of Trips' best babyface performances and he didn't manage to bury Umaga at all.  You know I love Trips/HBK and I had fun with the Nash match but you noted on why/how you can do that. Cena/Umaga sucks due to the ending.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea Im shocked I actually enjoyed hhh/umaga street fight mostly for umaga performance. Hunter did his usual run of the mill gimmick match performance as you said but its a good mach to me, so ill put guy match under his resume because he was involved

cena/umaga was ok


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THE FUCK?

Why is this match so great? THIS. MAKES. NO. SENSE.

WATCH.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Hell, Umaga in general was a great talent. As are most of the Samoan family anyway. I really miss the guy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That Miz/Henry match was nice, yeah. Henry can do it all, cause THAT'S WHAT HE DO!

KOK, you want a good Mark Henry gem?






FUCK YEAH.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Duke Silver said:


> It depends how you want to classify a worker, I guess. Henry's character work this year has blown everyone else out of the water. Even during a match that isn't particularly great (i.e. Ryback Mania), Henry is still tops.
> 
> Bryan
> Cesaro
> ...


I was talking about strictly in-ring work. When I hear ''worker'' I just think of ring work, most people do. Apart from one good appearance in the Elimination Chamber match, Mark Henry hasn't had any good matches all year, so for me, he's definitely not in the top 5 workers *right now.* If you want to go by in-ring work and character work as a overall worker standpoint, well, while Henry's had very good character work since returning, the ring work hasn't been there to add up with his good character work, so to me, I'm not sure I'd rank him as a top 5 worker with character work included either.

I don't mind Henry, I think he plays a good monster heel and he can be very entertaining sometimes such as his return when he destroyed Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara and his fake retirement promo, but I'm not nearly as high on Henry as most here, in fact, I think he gets too much praise around here particularly by some people in this thread, but each to their own.


----------



## World's Best (Jul 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> Top 5 workers this year:
> 
> Bryan
> Punk
> ...


I'd agree with this but swap out Cesaro for Ziggler.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For shits and gigs, current top 5 workers:

Bryan 
Punk
Sheamus
Cesaro
Jericho

I guess honorable mention would have to go to Rollins & Ziggler. Just don't think their individual body of work is as high as the others this year. Rollins may switch with Jericho. Henry wouldn't even be close despite me loving the guy, his matches have just sucked this year considering he was given Ryback and a strap match with Sheamus.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Cesaro is ahead of Ziggler, apart from the payback performance, Showoff hasn't done anything substantial to further increase his resume, this year. The latter has been consistent, with many great TV matches, especially with the likes of Sheamus.

Consistent Solidetry > One Time Amazery


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ check out his (ziggler) main event matches with sheamus and del rio, he has ok raw/sd matches with Jericho,dbryan and a good del rio one as well

watched the FCA dvd as well

rey/Batista decent 
orton/Rhodes ok
hhh/umaga good
umaga/cena decent
dx/legacy ok

watching some disc 2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Hell, Umaga in general was a great talent. As are most of the Samoan family anyway. I really miss the guy.


I was pissed when Cena ended his undefeated streak with a roll-up.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'd rank Ziggler ahead of Punk though, Phill has really been off his game, lately. Seems like he doesn't have an itch for wrestling anymore. That comeback performance at PB was disgusting, but then again, he was facing an overdone Jericho, who insists on a same match-to-match formula.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I haven't seen anything Punk's done since coming back but he kinda has to be in my top 5 by default since he's in my #1 and #2 current MOTYs. Plus TLC with Ryback, Raw vs. Jericho, and doing his best in trying to carry Dwayne at EC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Henry is fucking tremendous, but I gotta agree that a top 5 worker right now is the furthest thing to describe him. He's done fuck all this year between injuries and time off. But if he can stay healthy then he can easily be a top 5 worker in the company come the end of the year. His awesome 2011 only really began around SummerSlam time, hopefully he can do just as well or maybe even better this time around .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fandango said:


> I was pissed when Cena ended his undefeated streak with a roll-up.


 When was the last time an undefeated streak ended well? Drew Mcintyre's ended by a boot to the face by Kane (not even a finisher), Shield lost in a TV match and Ryback has lost all his big matches.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

TLC match with Ryback is solid, I found the RAW match with Jericho to be quite dull though, as was the future one. Jericho-Punk have chemistry along the lines of Taker-Austin, Orton-Cena, Shawn-Trips, sometimes they uncover the sweet spot and produce great matches, ala WM28 & ER 12, other times, It's a struggle to sit through them and those that contain such template-style working and bizarre storytelling, PB and to a lesser extent, RAW 13, however a rewatch is of needed doing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For entertainment sake, rate the MITB winners 0-10 in in-ring skills, mic skills, current/last gimmick and charisma:

Edge
RVD
Mr Anderson
CM Punk
Jack Swagger
Kane
Miz
Daniel Bryan
Alberto Del Rio
Dolph Ziggler
John Cena


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> For entertainment sake, rate the MITB winners 0-10 in in-ring skills, mic skills, current/last gimmick and charisma:
> 
> Edge
> RVD
> ...


In ring, mic skills, charisma

John Cena: 7, 9, 10 

Edge: 7.5, 8, 8

RVD: 7.5, 5, 7

Dolph Ziggler: 9, 6, 7

Del Rio: 8, 1, 4

Kane: 7, 7, 8

Daniel Bryan: 10, 5, 6

Jack Swagger: 7, 2, 5

Kennedy: 7, 7.5, 7

Cm Punk: 9, 10, 8

Miz: 5, 7, 6


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Ring/Mic/Gimmick/Charisma

Edge - 7/9/9/9
RVD - 6/4/6/7
Mr Anderson - 5/7/7/7
CM Punk - 8/10/9/8
Jack Swagger - 6/3/5/5
Kane - 6/6/8/7
Miz - 5/7/0/6
Daniel Bryan - 10/6/7/7
Alberto Del Rio - 7/5/5/6
Dolph Ziggler - 8/5/6/6
John Cena - 8/9/7/10


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Don;t usually participate in these games but why the hell not? 

Ring/Mic/Gimmick/Charisma

Edge-8/8/7/8
RVD-7/4/6/7
Mr Anderson-0/0/0/0
CM Punk-9/10/10/10
Jack Swagger-6/3/1/1
Kane-6/6/8/7
Miz-6/7/7/7
Daniel Bryan-8/8/8/8
Alberto Del Rio-6/2/2/2
Dolph Ziggler-8/6/7/8
John Cena-8/8/7/10


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I don't think this has been posted yet. Here's the match listing of the _Best of the WWE at Madison Square Garden_.

Thoughts? Personally, I wished they had more pre-GE matches.

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe...-ray-match-listing/46252/#.UdsbHMtf-sU.reddit



> *Disc 1*
> 
> 50 Years of History
> 
> ...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ring, mic, charisma

Edge - 8/9/9
RVD - 7/5/8
Mr Anderson - 5/6/7
CM Punk - 7/9/7
Jack Swagger - 7/1/1
Kane - 6/6/6
Miz - 5/7/7
Daniel Bryan - 10/7/7
Alberto Del Rio - 8/5/5
Dolph Ziggler - 8/5/5
John Cena - 8/9/10

-------------------------------

My Road to Wrestlemania 23 is now almost over with the final Smackdown. It also goes along with the Orton list that is nearly finished other than a few rewatches needed. Some ratings:

Orton vs HBK - Raw 5/3/07 - ★★★½
Taker vs Finlay - Smackdown 9/3/07 - ★★★¾
Orton vs Jeff Hardy - Raw 19/3/07 - ★¾
Orton & Kennedy vs Lashley - Smackdown 23/3/07 - ★
Orton & Kennedy vs Hardy's - Raw 26/3/07 - ★½
Cena & HBK vs Taker & Batista - Raw 26/3/07 - ★★★¼
Orton, Kennedy, Booker & Finlay vs Edge, Punk & Hardy's - ECW 27/3/07 - ★★¼
Orton vs Jeff - Smackdown 30/3/07 - ★★★

And another match I went through again just to assure:

Orton vs Angle vs Mysterio - WM22 - ★★¼ (This went down quite a bit and will definitely not make the list. No structure and just a bunch of spots that are no sold instantly. Rey botches the corner 619, Angle keeps getting up to Suplex everyone and the booking is just terrible. It's supposed to be Rey's moment but they are too busy protecting Angle with him making both opponents tap out behind referee's back. And the finish was anti climactic.)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Ring/Mic/Charisma

Edge - 8/9/9
RVD - 7/6/7
Mr Anderson - 5/7/7
CM Punk - 8/10/9
Jack Swagger - 7/1/1
Kane - 6/7/8
Miz - 6/7/7
Daniel Bryan - 9/5/7
Alberto Del Rio - 8/5/5
Dolph Ziggler - 9/6/7
John Cena - 7/8/10


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Ring/Mic/Gimmick/Charisma

Edge-9/9/10/9
RVD-8/4/6/7
Mr Anderson-7/8/7/7
CM Punk-9/10/9/9
Jack Swagger-8/5/7/3
Kane-7/6/8/7
Miz-3/3/3/5
Daniel Bryan-10/8/8/9
Alberto Del Rio-7/2/2/2
Dolph Ziggler-9/6/8/8
John Cena-8/8/7/10

Miz is worst of the bunch for me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ring/Mic/Gimmick/Charisma

Edge-8/8/8/8
RVD-7/4/6/10
Mr Anderson-5/8/6/6
CM Punk-9/10/10/10 (DAT :flair status)
Jack Swagger-7/3/1/3
Kane-6/7/9/8
Miz-5/8/6/7
Daniel Bryan-11/8/9/8
Alberto Del Rio-8/2/6/2
Dolph Ziggler-8/7/7/8
John Cena-7/8/6/10


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Is Show/Brock the only watchable match from Survivor Series 2002 still?


----------



## Baldwin. (Nov 5, 2006)

Wont be picking up the MSG DVD.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> Is Show/Brock the only watchable match from Survivor Series 2002 still?


i think there was a good tag match on their with Los Guerreros and other people.


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> I don't think this has been posted yet. Here's the match listing of the _Best of the WWE at Madison Square Garden_.
> 
> Thoughts? Personally, I wished they had more pre-GE matches.



I am disappointed with the Madison Square Garden match listing, while the unreleased matches are great, there is a bunch of repeats and why bother putting the Bob Backlund vs Diesel match that only lasted 5 seconds? I am going to cancel my pre-order and ask this for my birthday which is in September so I do not have to pay out of my pocket for this disappointing set


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> Texas Death Match for the WWE Championship
> Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera
> 19th May, 1980


Well now people should sure as fuck get it.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Good match between Daniel Bryan and Sheamus. Bryan finally gets a win over Sheamus. Match is ***1/2 for me.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Good match between Daniel Bryan and Sheamus. Nice back and fourth between the two with a hot crowd. Daniel Bryan applying the Yes lock with Sheamus reversing it into a Cloverleaf was awesome. Great to see Daniel Bryan scoring the win over Sheamus here. Nice match to start off the show. 

*Rating:* ★★★1/2


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

XWT now has a Undertaker Complete 2005 TV Collection :mark: Orton feud YEAH!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Daaaaamn, Disc One and the Blu Ray exclusives for the MSG set look fuckin great. I'm pretty excited about Backlund/Patera and Slaughter/Sheik considering both get such high praise and I've seen neither. Discs 2 and 3 on the other hand? Utter shit. Nothing but repeats and... more repeats. Think I'll still buy it in the Black Friday sale though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Sheamus gets ***-***1/4. I think I'll go with the latter since Bryan won.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

CM Punk vs. Randy Orton 7/8/13 - ***1/4
Punk finally has a clean win over Orton


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I didn't really like Punk/Orton that much. Finishing stretch was nice though.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★ for Punk vs Orton. Eh, it was an okay match. Couldn't really get into it until the near end tbh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Orton- ***. Good main event and it's great Punk finally got a clean win over Randy, but it did fall prey to a very boring mid-section. Match felt pretty big-time thoughwith the adults cheering Punk and the kids cheering Orton for a split crowd overall and the fair bit of hype it got. Of course considering they're the two of the three most over faces on the roster, that helped the cause as well.

Bryan coming in after match and cleaning house was great, although I'm a little worried now he won't win the match on Sunday. I mean even when he beat Sheamus I thought he would still win it, but something tells me now he won't. I'm guessing it's Sheamus or Orton.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan vs Sheamus - ★★★¼

Orton vs Punk - ★ (Disappointing with how boring and short it was. Could see the ending coming from a mile away but the match being boring even before it didn't help at all. Fingers crossed Orton wins MITB with Bryan getting the upper-hand in the go home show.)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Sheamus/Bryan gets somewhere between ***1/4-***1/2 from me. 

This year has got to be one of WWE's GOAT TV match years. Quality stuff (mostly involving Bryan) week after week. Such a shame that 2013 has got to be one of the worst years for PPV, at least imo. There is not one damn PPV I'd consider buying on DVD. Payback is probably close but I'm mixed on that show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Awesome RAW. Can't wait to see MITB.

Bryan/Sheamus: ****3/4*
Jericho/Axel: ***3/4*
Punk/Orton: ***** These two have such underrated chemistry.

Loved the Henry/Cena segment and the Wyatt Family debut as well.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Bryan/Sheamus - *****
Orton/Punk - ***1/4*

Enjoyed this Raw though, a lot of entertaining stuff. The Wyatt Family debut was :mark: (Except for those damn Husky Harris chants at the end, that better not catch on :$)


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Bryan/Sheamus - ***1/4 - Chalk up another great match for the 2013 TV collection.

Bryan ending the show with the briefcase was suspect though. That type of foreshadowing never ends well.

Wyatt debut was splendid.

Mysterio/Riley vs. Miz/Swagger TT on After-Raw ATM. Haven't seen this since it aired. :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

sharkboy22 said:


> Sheamus/Bryan gets somewhere between ***1/4-***1/2 from me.
> 
> This year has got to be one of WWE's GOAT TV match years. Quality stuff (mostly involving Bryan) week after week. Such a shame that 2013 has got to be one of the worst years for PPV, at least imo. There is not one damn PPV I'd consider buying on DVD. Payback is probably close but I'm mixed on that show.


Yeah, most of the matches in my top 10 this year were from TV. Here's my list currently:

(****1/2)
1) Taker/Punk WM29
(****1/4)
2) Shield/Hell No and Kofi Raw 5-20-13
(****)
3) Shield/BOD and Bryan Raw 4-22-13
4) Ziggler/Del Rio PB
5) Punk/Cena Raw 2-25-13
(***3/4)
6) Shield/Hell No Raw 5-27-13
7) Shield/Jericho, Ryback and Sheamus Raw 2-18-13
8) Bryan/Rollins Raw 6-20-13
9) Barrett/Sheamus Main Event 5-29-13
10) Punk-Jericho PB 

Only three PPV matches right now, although that could change quite a bit this Sunday if both MITB matches and the WWE Title match deliver. If all of them make it that would even things up for the year. I'm not holding my breath on Ziggler/Del Rio repeating the quality of their fantastic Payback match, but who knows? That might be one to look out for as well.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I fucking loved the Wyatt house promos tonight and loved their debut (especially the entrance) even more.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

enjoyed punk/orton and thought it was MOTN, with a more lively crowd it would be much better

axel/y2j was pretty fun too


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Really fun raw tonight, Wyatt Debut was pretty mind blowing, the vignettes and the entrance ruled the world. Fuck those Husky Harris chants....fuck that crowd.
b
Bryan/Sheamus ***1/2 you are always going to get a great match when these two are in the ring together. 

Punk/Orton **1/2 ok match, nothing really special at all. Punk has just seemed off to me since he's returned, he's just not delivering on the week to week basis that he was before he took his time off to heal.

But anyways

WYATT FAMILY :mark:

BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wyatt tonight was great. Loved the promo before he came out. The entrance was amazing and then the beatdown with Bray watching over his "brothers" was an awesome sight. Granted The Shield have been doing the whole beatdown on individuals/numbers game stuff for months, but Wyatt not mixing it up and being the clear leader brings in a bit of a different element. Look forward to seeing where they go with it.

I wonder if they'd have Wyatt replace Kane and have him win the briefcase... and then have him cash-in on Cena that night and become champion. :lmao

I wonder if we'd be getting people marking out or people saying he got it too soon. That would be interesting in itself. But he definitely started off with a bang, got a great reaction on Raw, and they're definitely positioning him as a strong main event force.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I hate how punk does the running knee into that sloppy looking clothesline. Worse yet, he follows it with the elbow drop. It's not the elbow drop I mind, it's the fact that it manages to connect after a sloppy clothesline. had it been the bulldog, I would quicker believe that his opponent would be out for so long that he has time to climb the turnbuckle, pose and hit the elbow.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Actually, now that it's been brought up, when did Punk stop doing the bulldog and instead the clothesline and why? If anyone knows...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Gamblor said:


> Actually, now that it's been brought up, when did Punk stop doing the bulldog and instead the clothesline and why? If anyone knows...


Probably to change things up a bit, but if it ain't broken goddammit! It just looks horrible imo and so anti-climatic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

IDK, to answer your question I actually see kane being knocked out of the mitb and it only being 6 guys; kane/wyatt mini feud with wyatt going over and then a bryan/kane program so dbryan has something to do if he wins mitb until he cash in


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Gamblor said:


> Actually, now that it's been brought up, when did Punk stop doing the bulldog and instead the clothesline and why? If anyone knows...


I'd assume it's because the clothesline is a cleaner way to set up the elbow drop position. Just guessing though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk started doing the clothesline after the knee when he turned heel. I'm assuming it's because the bulldog was a move that got a "pop" from the audience, while the clothesline was more of a "momentum-cutting" move that didn't garner that same kind of cheer. No clue why he still uses it.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, I'mma mark for Wyatt. Good episode and I loved the finishing sequence of Sheamus/Bryan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Sheamus was fantastic. Stick of two of the three top consistent workers out there and this was no surprise.

Punk beat Orton. That's all I care. Doesn't matter if the match was average; I went in expecting that. It's Orton.

Jericho vs Axel didn't light the world on fire, but it was entertaining.

How is Rollins & Reigns vs Tons of Funk _not_ mentioned yet? That was the second best match on the night. Would be first if Danielson vs Sheamus didn't rock the house.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> The Wyatt Family debut was :mark: (Except for those damn Husky Harris chants at the end, that better not catch on :$)


Ugggghhhhh what a shock, dumb audience trying to prove how 'smart' and 'in the know' they are. Like those morons deserve some form of recognition or congratulations for having access to wikipedia. Yes, this guy once had a different gimmick. We get it. You are not special for knowing that. You are not helping Wyatt by chanting this. Shut the fuck down.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh that's what they were chanting? I couldn't decipher it.

Twats.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone else like the Wyatt Family theme song? Think it fits well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Checked out orton/Bryan from smackdown , why doesn't this get any love? It's better than all their other matches by far and tvmotyc Definitely


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Anyone else like the Wyatt Family theme song? Think it fits well.


The bass line. It's gold.



redskins25 said:


> Checked out orton/Bryan from smackdown , why doesn't this get any love? It's better than all their other matches by far and tvmotyc Definitely


It's their best match, yeah. Nothing I'd say that was one of the best TV matches around though. It's good. That's all that matters. Really preferred it a ton over the Street Fight.

btw, you see Dolph vs McIntyre from last Friday? Match was bumping.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked the SD Orton/Bryan, but I found it kind of odd that the barricade bump wasn't seen as a bigger move. IIRC it was what truly ended the Raw match. On SD they do the same bump and then Bryan just has his nutso flurry (which was great, tbf) and the match ends there. I didn't think their street fight was that good at all. I am so sick of Orton right now.


McIntyre/Ziggs got time and shit? Even if not, it was good? I should watch that one day.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> The bass line. It's gold.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tend to say every really good match is tvmotyc :lol

Yea man I saw it, nice little bout bumping is a great way to describe it. I'm lovin this scrappy ziggler man, its good stuff, had a little chuckle with his segment with ADR tonite as well

You finish the FCA DVD ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I liked the SD Orton/Bryan, but I found it kind of odd that the barricade bump wasn't seen as a bigger move. IIRC it was what truly ended the Raw match. On SD they do the same bump and then Bryan just has his nutso flurry (which was great, tbf) and the match ends there. I didn't think their street fight was that good at all. I am so sick of Orton right now.
> 
> 
> McIntyre/Ziggs got time and shit? Even if not, it was good? I should watch that one day.


I harped on that too. It's non-continuity like that where it leaves me soured. Match was good all up to that point though. Sick of Orton? You and me both. I can watch a WWE show, being in a good mood, here comes the next Orton segment or match and for the next 10-15 minutes I'm miserable while watching. Life without Kofi Kingston is nearly perfect. If only Orton joined him I wouldn't have a gripe in the world.

It went in the three minute range. Despite that, it was good. Drew busted out some moves that ruled both on offense & bumping purposes. The guy did some sort of torpedo dropkick on the apron into the post. Not to mention the way he took the Zig-Zag. Owned. Dolph already looks a lot more natural as a babyface while working matches.



redskins25 said:


> I tend to say every really good match is tvmotyc :lol
> 
> Yea man I saw it, nice little bout bumping is a great way to describe it. I'm lovin this scrappy ziggler man, it good stuff, had a little chuckle with his segment with ADR tonite as well


After I just got done detailing the bumping ^ too.  

Ziggler showing his tenacity as he heads into MITB is going along smoothly. Outside of the the sort of awkward bit with Del Rio tonight _(fans almost didn't know how to react to it)_ he's been rolling since Payback, imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

McIntyre/Zig didn't get all that much time but it was entertaining.

I'm all about those 4-5 minute matches that just fully own and are action packed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I stopped on Cena vs Umaga, 'Skins. Probably try and hit the rest up tomorrow. Although I got ROH to catch up to on tap, tbhayley.

Down with Brye. I love a nice sprint of a match. Fallacy among wrestling that a bout needs copious amounts of time to be noteworthy or good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There are so many 4-8 min matches out there that I take over many main event 35+ min ones :HHH2

At first I didn't know how to reaction to ziggler either, it was funny that ADR continued to bear the shit out of sin cara while he was talking ( btw why is there still a dim light for sin cara ?)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ugh. Who knows. As it made no sense in the first place it is now more pointless - can you believe that? - to have the exclusive lights for Sin Cara considering all he does is job these days.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The end of that match confused me on so many levels.

Ziggler starts talking, match continues. Sin Cara rolls up, thought it might end it because that would make sense, even if Sin Cara is a jobber. But nah. Then Ziggler and Del Rio start brawling, but no bell? And Del Rio just starts beating the fuck out of Ziggler until Sin Cara dives off onto him. WHERE ARE THEY GOING WITH ALL THIS?!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It's stupid you have a Rey/Batista sd , dx/legacy submission and Rhodes/orton nov 11 cuz I know you will love that one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Have you guys noticed Del Rio hasn't won a match since Payback? What's up with that? Only victory he's obtained seems to be a random DQ win over Jericho on Smackdown. Nothing from a pin or submission yet. Almost thinking Del Rio is going to have another paper reign come to an end by Sunday.

Field looks good for the final matches on the set. First few matches weren't too good like I said, so a turnaround in quality is swell. Although if liking Triple H vs Nash street fight, b/c it's a steaming pile of overbooked crap & sometimes that's awesome to view, is a crime then lock me up. How did Triple H earn this "good in gimmick matches" moniker? :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I much prefer Trips in matches with more than two people. Triple threats and fatal four ways. Some tag matches, elimination chambers, etc.

But then again Cactus/Trips, Jericho/Trips (FL 2000) and Trips/Orton (LMS I & III) were all very good, imo.

And wow, I actually didn't notice that. :lmao Maybe they're just prepping to put the belt back on Dolph early.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Street Fight vs Foley is his best match. Not to snub the falls count anywhere vs Jack in '97 either. But that falls under how I've always called Foley to be Triple H's best opponent. Jericho match is very good. I'm not as high on it like a lot of others, but it's a good mention for his work in gimmick matches. He was a threat and Jericho was a heck of an underdog. Last Man Standings are good too. Got nothing to add there other than those matches working vs young master Orton.

That's all I can think of. I thought Del Rio making it to SummerSlam was a lock. Now I'm not so sure. Quite a few things up in the air with the four big matches at MITB.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm actually really amped for MITB. Getting about 7 friends together so it's only costing me about $6 to buy and it's always a fun time. Plus the card looks pretty great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I feel the same way you and yeah feel about orton with del rio. Tbh del rio is a good( can be boring in his matches as well) wrestler but a rock is more interesting and he is just given chance after chance. We or I will never care about him Vince. Dump him to the mid-card and have him have your run of the mill ok match on Raw/sd if he has to be on The show. Honestly he is so boring his mic skills are so poor and don't give me the accent crap excuse.This man never gets a reaction and I cringe my teeth everytime he talks. A out of it drugged out looking wish he was anywhere but there Cm punk has made him look so small on the mic two weeks in a row. Sunday ziggler take the belt from this jobber and let him go away

Rant over


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was amped the moment Payback finished b/c I knew MITB was on the horizon. Only other PPV that gets me excited each year that isn't WrestleMania is MITB.

SummerSlam depends on the card and if the company decides to make it feel big. MITB usually always does which is a total blast.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I usually get excited for the Rumble. However the last couple years have been a little flat. But back when I was younger, in the mid '00s, I was all about the Rumble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never been a Rumble mark, tbhayley. Especially lately when the quality has dipped so much & predictability is a burden.

SummerSlam for the "other" big PPV for me. Plus, I felt it was the most consistent in quality over the years. Love me a ton of SummerSlam's that have come down the pike.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This is true. I generally manage to enjoy Summerslam. Recently I was disappointed with '12 and '07 but that's about it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Last year's MITB was terrible and thus left a bad taste in my mouth so I'm not as pumped for this year's. Though RVD returning and the prospect of Mark Henry becoming WWE Champion has my interest. Also Payback was quite bad so hopefully WWE has a bounceback PPV to gain some momentum into Summerslam.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked Payback. :$

Loved Ziggler/Del Rio, Punk/Jericho and thought Shield/Bryan & Orton was very enjoyable. Plus AJ/Kaitlyn and Axel/Barrett/Miz were fun.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I thought it was pretty underwhelming especially on rewatch. I was a bit harsh on Ziggler/Del Rio on initial viewing giving it ** but it went up to *** on second watch while Jericho/Punk plummeted. The main event was extremely disappointing considering Ryback/Cena had a great LMS match at Extreme Rules, but it was kind of expected considering the shit stipulations. The rest of the show I didn't care for at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Payback > all other PPVs this year that wasn't WM.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Payback > all other PPVs this year that wasn't WM.


That's not saying much cause the PPV's this year have been pretty bad with the odd great match.
This year it's been awesome tv matches while the odd great PPV match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still think that Elimination Chamber was a good solid Vengeance 2011-level PPV, but I'm probably one of few. Money in the Bank however never disappoints. Love the ladder gimmick, and we have two compelling title matches to look forward to.

Brothers (and sister Starbuck), please refrain from ever watching No Way Out 1998. Nothing good came out of trying to watch that filth. 1998 was such an overrated year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1998 was all about the characters & general reactions. That should be common knowledge among most fans. Don't say it in the bad sections of the WWE areas. You'll get pissy reactions up and down for that. 2013 > 1998 in matches. Watch the feathers fly with unusual taking it personally overreactions. Tis a weird sight.

Elimination Chamber 2013 is like a three match show. Filler on it sucked and so did two of the three main events. _(Punk/Rock & Chamber)_ So, it's like around the third best show of the year. If you feel like ranking. Fuck I lose track b/c PPVs this year suck. It had more to offer than Extreme Rules did. Which was a complete one match show at best; thanks to a stockpile of mediocre bouts the entire night. Brock vs Trips was grand, but one match out of eight doesn't cut it for being a "good" show.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

98 was a poor year in terms of actual wrestling (though not as bad as 99), but you were always entertained through other means like storylines, gimmicks, raunchiness, and the like. It's not everyone's cup of tea, but personally I will take a good storyline with a shit match over a shit storyline with a good match 7 days of the week and twice on Sundays.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Brothers (and sister Starbuck), please refrain from ever watching No Way Out 1998. Nothing good came out of trying to watch that filth. 1998 was such an overrated year.


I thought the main event nutty brawl tag was fucking awesome. You didn't like that?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The main event was the only thing that I remotely tolerated. Lots of fun, but why does Savio Vega exist? Other than that, it was cool seeing "face" Owen, Foley, Funk, and Austin team together against DX. Kane/Vader was alright, but kinda disappointing and it really hurt me to see Vader dumbed down to "that". The Nation tag was not very good either outside of Mark Henry slugging it out with Ahmed Johnson. Everything else was just downright putrid midcard action. Probably gonna go rewatch some of WM 14. Wasn't the biggest fan of it, but it's held in high regard here so its worth a shot.

1998 is definitely a great time for characters/crowd reception. No question about that. My comment was directed more at match quality, which was very minimal at best. Maybe I should take the time to see if there were any hidden gems from that year. Could be fun. Still gotta download this Nitro that has the most overlooked/underrated DDP match of all-time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was disappointed by Vader/Kane as well. Heard it was really good and I kept waiting for it to pick up and it kind of doesn't. It's all right, though, like you said.

Savio replaced casket-match injured Michaels, and I've never had anything against the guy, but yeah he was a weird guy to randomly put in that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He was picked thanks to his history vs Austin back in 1996. Random as holy hell, but for a guy not booked on the event the pick did have a tiny bit of logic behind it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Have you guys noticed Del Rio hasn't won a match since Payback? What's up with that? Only victory he's obtained seems to be a random DQ win over Jericho on Smackdown. Nothing from a pin or submission yet. Almost thinking Del Rio is going to have another paper reign come to an end by Sunday.


Or by WWE logic, this will mean he'll likely retain on Sunday. :no:



Brye said:


> I'm actually really amped for MITB. Getting about 7 friends together so it's only costing me about $6 to buy and it's always a fun time. Plus the card looks pretty great.


I'm doing the same. Hoping to watch the PPV with about 4 friends and my brother, should be a good time as usual. And because MITB is free here in the UK, I won't have to pay anything except for a little bit of money for snacks.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> How is Rollins & Reigns vs Tons of Funk _not_ mentioned yet? That was the second best match on the night. Would be first if Danielson vs Sheamus didn't rock the house.


THANK YOU. Thought that was a ton of fun(hohehoheho). Initially I was annoyed that it was such a competitive match but it made up for it in entertainment.

DAT SENTON/SPEAR COMBO. Shield are so damn smooth.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Agreed, that match was surprisingly enjoyable. Not surprised by The Shield's performance obviously but Tons Of Funk did ok. Tensai sold that Spear well for a guy his size.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Bryan - ***3/4
Shield/TOF - ***
Punk/Orton - **3/4

HayleySabin, why u still hatin' on the 2013 Chamber - Mark Henry alone makes it great


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm not speaking on Haley's behalf here but for me the 2013 EC was the most 'paint by number' matches in it's history.

Nothing was really remarkable about the Rumble and the spots that stood out have been done before and better.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Do people really think Bret is better than Flair in the ring, when comparing the prime-to-prime timeframes? A little of me died inside, when I saw those comments.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah1993 said:


> Well now people should sure as fuck get it.


The MSG DVD needs more Backlund imo! Am looking forward to those two matches though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Or by WWE logic, this will mean he'll likely retain on Sunday. :no:


Wouldn't doubt it, man. WWE does have me almost lured into thinking Dolph actually has a decent shot. Those jerks; if they toy with me.



Huganomics said:


> THANK YOU. Thought that was a ton of fun(hohehoheho). Initially I was annoyed that it was such a competitive match but it made up for it in entertainment.
> 
> DAT SENTON/SPEAR COMBO. Shield are so damn smooth.


I like how RAW has been throwing out these matches that are unusually competitive _(in a good way)_ and manage to hit around the six minute mark, lately. It's giving the show a less predictable vibe. Sure, the end results are still the same, but the matches themselves turn out better and more fun than originally expected.

Hot tag from Tensai + Shield sequence to end the match was on point. Not to mention Rollins bumps like the biggest mad man ever. :mark:



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Agreed, that match was surprisingly enjoyable. Not surprised by The Shield's performance obviously but Tons Of Funk did ok. Tensai sold that Spear well for a guy his size.


Tensai has a good quality in allowing some impact from smaller sized wrestlers - which is mostly who he works vs - look pretty swell. You seen him in Japan, ABH? Don't mean to beat that old horse. Fits along the lines of my point.



ATF said:


> Sheamus/Bryan - ***3/4
> Shield/TOF - ***
> Punk/Orton - **3/4
> 
> HayleySabin, why u still hatin' on the 2013 Chamber - Mark Henry alone makes it great


Henry himself was the man.  

Rest of the match fell of deaf ears as far as making anything stand out. If only he had a more meaningful part in the match, I'd possibly agree. He entered, made things awesome, got canned. Match went back to being "eh" following.



Big Pete said:


> I'm not speaking on Haley's behalf here but for me the 2013 EC was the most 'paint by number' matches in it's history.
> 
> Nothing was really remarkable about the Rumble and the spots that stood out have been done before and better.


I'd agree with that.



Fluze said:


> Do people really think Bret is better than Flair in the ring, when comparing the prime-to-prime timeframes? A little of me died inside, when I saw those comments.


Perhaps they do. I know I don't personally agree, however being fans of both I can think of a lot worse than Bret Hart when someone wants to name someone as "better in ring" than Ric Flair.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, for the sake of discussion, who do you think has the best dropkick ever?


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Brye said:


> I'm actually really amped for MITB. Getting about 7 friends together so it's only costing me about $6 to buy and it's always a fun time. Plus the card looks pretty great.


If there's 7 of you should have sweepstakes for the ladder matches. 

Brye to draw Kane & Swagger :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/Sheamus was pretty great. When is the last time Bryan wasn't involved in a ***+ match on Raw/SD?

How was Punk/Orton? Worth watching?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> How was Punk/Orton? Worth watching?


No. Speaking objectively, it was a bore and neither men seemed to be into it. Probably Orton's worst performance in the past couple of months when he's turned it up in the matches involving Team Hell No and The Shield. And Punk seems to have not shaken off his ring rust since returning.

Orton haters may jerk off to the ending but that aside, there's nothing to look forward to.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Bryan/Sheamus was pretty great. When is the last time Bryan wasn't involved in a ***+ match on Raw/SD?
> 
> How was Punk/Orton? Worth watching?


It was a good match, nothing more, nothing less. Not as good as Bryan/Sheamus, but a solid bout with a basic ending (signature into finisher).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks guys. 

I heard Bryan came out and cleaned house after the match, though. Might be worth checking that out.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Not the best dropkick of all time, but Mark Jindrak had an impressive leaping ability whenever he hit it.



Big Pete said:


> I'm not speaking on Haley's behalf here but for me the 2013 EC was the most 'paint by number' matches in it's history.
> 
> Nothing was really remarkable about the Rumble and the spots that stood out have been done before and better.


You may say it on my behalf if he doesn't agree with it. That Elimination Chamber match was so boring and phoned in. Likewise for the Royal Rumble - completely forgettable.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't care if Henry wins the belt for less than a minute, as long as I can call him a former WWE Champion; that's all that matters at this point. Summerslam double main event of;

- CM Punk Vs BROCK Lesnar
- John Cena Vs Mark Henry Vs Daniel Bryan

& you'd have my money. They're going to have my money anyways with Punk-Brock, but... Henry-Cena-Bryan? Maybe that's their way of protecting Cena while getting Bryan over at the same time (even though I believe that Bryan shouldn't win the belt until Wrestlemania XXX).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best dropkick of all time? Hmmmm... AJ Styles? That's really the only one that's popping up besides Orton. I'm sure there's plenty I'm forgetting. Billy Kidman throws a hell of a dropkick.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bob Holly and Maven also have some great dropkicks. Ziggler from the current roster as well as the obvious one, Orton.

I might be biased but Orton is probably my pick for the best one. He's pretty tall yet is so athletic and can even turn it into a flawless Dropsault.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Henry singles list is getting REAL now.

I have like, less than 10 Henry matches to watch and then I'm gonna start composing, hopefully I'm going to post the whole fucking thing on Sunday to celebrate Henry's big match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Henry singles list is getting REAL now.
> 
> I have like, less than 10 Henry matches to watch and then I'm gonna start composing, hopefully I'm going to post the whole fucking thing on Sunday to celebrate Henry's big match.


Seems like we're both getting done with our projects at the same time. 

Only got 5 more matches for my Orton list to go and as I said, I will use your formula with pictures. How many Henry matches will your list include btw?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You know what? I'm not entirely sure yet.

Somewhere between 25 and 50 I think, maybe 42 since that's how old Henry is.

:henry1


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Apart from 2 matches, I have to say this war games dvd is pretty shitty.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Daaaaamn, Disc One and the Blu Ray exclusives for the MSG set look fuckin great. I'm pretty excited about Backlund/Patera and Slaughter/Sheik considering both get such high praise and I've seen neither. Discs 2 and 3 on the other hand? Utter shit. Nothing but repeats and... more repeats. Think I'll still buy it in the Black Friday sale though.


Slaughter/Sheik is honest to god a match I would instinctively be inclined to suggest if someone asked me what I consider the best match in company history. Amazing bloody brawl, heroic and valiant protagonist in Slaughter against the dastardly Sheik, a nuclear MSG crowd who generate a truly timeless atmosphere and by the end the storytelling and Slaughter comeback feels like an homage to Rocky. The finish is also a perfect tie-in to the context of the feud and is as satisfying an end to the match as could be expected.


Caught Bryan/Sheamus from last night. Thought it was good albeit more of a sprint lacking in a clear structure. Still given it was a teaser to MITB I can forgive the match for being more competitive and a showcase for both men as opposed to a more structure driven match. Bryan's bump off the running knee into the barricade was nasty looking, his suicide dive might have been the best he's hit (I love the guy but extensive Lucha watching has shown me the man really can't hit a suicide dive all too well) and I adored the finish. Do people still look down on small packages and similar instinctive finishes as underwhelming? Because for my money its always been a great way for a babyface to win whilst protecting the opponent to a degree.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

haribo said:


> If there's 7 of you should have sweepstakes for the ladder matches.
> 
> Brye to draw Kane & Swagger :side:


We were actually thinking about throwing down some money and doing that. Knowing my luck I'd probably draw those two though. :lmao


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

As a set do you guys like the Steamboat life and times?


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Three Matches Revealed for Triple H "Thy Kingdom Come"

Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
The Rock vs. Triple H
Judgment Day – 21st May, 2000

World Heavyweight Championship
Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam
RAW – 30th June, 2003

Return from Injury
Triple H vs. King Booker
SummerSlam – 26th August, 2007


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The match with The rock mamei the set great, already


----------



## The Cult (Jul 21, 2012)

Thinking about comprising a list of all the Punk title defences in his latest reign. Although I'm not too keen on having to sit through his match with Rock again


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Trips/Booker match is beyond DUD worthy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Three Matches Revealed for Triple H "Thy Kingdom Come"
> 
> *Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
> The Rock vs. Triple H
> ...


:cheer

Now if only they can also put in the Power Trip vs Benoit/Jericho match and this looks already worthy of owning.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

almost done with disc 3 of FCA
cena/umaga 2.5/5
umaga/hhh 3/5
baitista/rey 2/5
orton/rhodes 3.5/5
DX/LEGACY 1.5/5

HHH/HBK SS 02 in a few

Im slowly going to use ** again little more but im using this method atm. Reason being to know where matches rank when I look back in my notebook months from now


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So :mark: for info starting to get revealed about the Trips set. The Rocky ironman on there is awesome. The Booker match has been chosen purely based on his return from injury I'm guessing although if they pick this one over the first one then fuck them. The Power Trip tag should be on it not to mention it was the more severe injury and significant moment in his career. Looking forward to finding out the rest of the match list along with the extras etc. That name though...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hopefully they reveal some matches for the HHH set that makes me want to buy it . Already own the Iron Man on DVD, other 2 matches can feck off .


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm happy with those three matches to start. Well, not the Booker one cos it sucks, but obviously that's there for other reasons. The name doesn't bother me too much either.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Iron Man = :mark:

LOL @ Booker return match in 07. Haven't seen the RVD match. Is it awful?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

WE CAN REBUILD HIM

:jpl

Can't remember a thing about the RVD match but it was 2003 and well....yeah...lets not go there again.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

To everyone interested in the HHH set, what would be your ideal match listing if you had full control over it?


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Three Matches Revealed for Triple H "Thy Kingdom Come"
> 
> Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
> The Rock vs. Triple H
> ...


Meh, I already have the Iron Man Match on the Top 25 Rivalries Blu-Ray and the Rock Most Electrifying Man DVD and the Return from Injury match on the Summerslam Anthology DVD, at least the World Heavyweight Championship is not a repeat...


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

DVDfreaker said:


> Meh, I already have the Iron Man Match on the Top 25 Rivalries Blu-Ray and the Rock Most Electrifying Man DVD and the Return from Injury match on the Summerslam Anthology DVD, at least the World Heavyweight Championship is not a repeat...


The Rock vs Triple H iron man match from Judgment Day 2000 has never been released on a compliation DVD/Blu-ray before. You are probably mistaking that match with the Rock vs. Triple H match from Backlash 2000 which is on the Top 25 Rivalries Blu-Ray and The Rock Most Electrifying Man DVD.


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> The Rock vs Triple H iron man match from Judgment Day 2000 has never been released on a compliation DVD/Blu-ray before. You are probably mistaking that match with the Rock vs. Triple H match from Backlash 2000 which is on the Top 25 Rivalries Blu-Ray and The Rock Most Electrifying Man DVD.


Ohh thank you for the correction


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

vs. Flair Raw 03 or Raw 07
vs. Cena Raw 09
w/Austin vs. Jericho/Benoit Raw 01
vs. HBK vs. Benoit Backlash 04
vs. Rikishi SD 00
vs. HBK Raw 03
vs. Eugene SS 04
vs. Jeff Hardy NM 08

Those are a few I'd like to see on there off the top of my head and outside the obvious ones that are on a bunch of sets already. Alternatively...

vs. HBK Raw 97
vs. Warrior Mania 12
vs. Steiner RR 03
vs. Kozlov SurSer08
vs. D'Lo Brown Raw 03 (Blindfold Match)
vs. Henry O. Godwinn
w/Austin & Steph vs. Hardy Boyz & Lita

Both would own.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> To everyone interested in the HHH set, what would be your ideal match listing if you had full control over it?


If there wasn't concern about overlap with other previous releases, it'd probably be something like this:

97 (?) Raw match vs Cactus Jack - forget the stip (maybe FBA?)
98 Summerslam Ladder vs Rock
00 Royal Rumble vs Cactus Jack
00 NWO HIAC vs Cactus Jack
00 Backlash vs Rock
00 Iron Man vs Rock
00 LMS vs Jericho
01 NWO vs Austin
01 Power Trip Tag from Raw
02 Summerslam HBK
03 Raw HBK
04 WM 20 triple threat
04 Backlash triple threat
04 Raw Iron Man vs Benoit
04 Summerslam vs Eugene
05 NYR Elimination Chamber (GOAT)
05 HIAC vs Batista
05 Taboo Tuesday Cage vs Flair
05 S. Series LMS vs Flair
06 NYR vs Show
06 WM22 vs Cena
06 Backlash triple threat
07 (?) Street Fight vs Umaga
07 No Mercy LMS vs Orton
07 Raw vs Flair
08 NWO Elimination Chamber
08 NOC vs Cena
08 vs Hardy x2
09 Raw vs Cena
11 WM vs Taker
12 WM vs Taker
11 vs Punk
12/13 vs Lesnar x3

Might be forgetting stuff in between 08 and 12 and your occasional Raw match back in 00 (seem to remember a good tag involving the Radicalz) but something along those lines.


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> vs. Flair Raw 03 or Raw 07
> 
> w/Austin vs. Jericho/Benoit Raw 01
> vs. HBK vs. Benoit Backlash 04


Very doubtful because of Benoit, yeah they added Benoit on the War Games set but they had to though but I would be very surprised if both of those matches with Benoit makes it on the set


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Here are matches that I hope are on the new Triple H DVD/Blu-ray

Triple H vs. Chris Jericho - Last Man Standing Match from Fully Loaded 2000
Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog - Unforgiven 1999
Triple H vs. Kurt Angle - No DQ match from Unforgiven 2000
Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. JBL - Backlash 2008
Triple H vs. Randy Orton - Last Man Standing match from Unforgiven 2007


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Okay, for the sake of discussion, who do you think has the best dropkick ever?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEU2mrhU_Q 

3:00



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Henry singles list is getting REAL now.
> 
> I have like, less than 10 Henry matches to watch and then I'm gonna start composing, hopefully I'm going to post the whole fucking thing on Sunday to celebrate Henry's big match.


Did you get to see the Jericho match? I heard his RVD match from 04 is really good as well but can't find it.



Starbuck said:


> vs. D'Lo Brown Raw 03 (Blindfold Match)


The FUCK!? I thought you'd invented this until I googled, and shit...it exists. I WANT IT.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> The FUCK!? I thought you'd invented this until I googled, and shit...it exists. I WANT IT.


It's actually a pretty fun match and has always stuck with me for some reason. If you're looking for a way to kill off 5 mins or so it might be worth checking out ha.

I was always fond of Hardcore Holly's dropkicks. It's about the only thing I found interesting about him other than the whole super heavyweight gimmick with Crash.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> vs. D'Lo Brown Raw 03 (Blindfold Match)





Yeah1993 said:


> The FUCK!? I thought you'd invented this until I googled, and shit...it exists. I WANT IT.


Here is the Triple H vs. D'lo Brown blindfold match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH matches I would love to see on his DVD (or any DVD for that matter):

vs Jericho - Fully Loaded
vs Austin - No Way Out
w/ Austin vs Jericho & Benoit - Raw
Evolution vs Foley, Benoit, Shelton & HBK - Raw
vs Benoit vs HBK - Backlash
vs Benoit - Ironman
vs Orton - No Mercy LMS

Unsurprisingly, mostly Benoit related stuff.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> If there wasn't concern about overlap with other previous releases, it'd probably be something like this:
> 
> 97 (?) Raw match vs Cactus Jack - forget the stip (maybe FBA?)
> 98 Summerslam Ladder vs Rock
> ...


That's a damn good list, pretty definitive. The only stuff I would add would be:

vs Mankind Raw 99 (First World Title win)
w/Radicalz vs Rock, Cactus Jack & Too Cool (The match I think you're referring too)
vs Benoit No Mercy 2000
vs Taker WM17 (is this on a set already?)
vs Flair Raw 03

Probably a few other TV gems I'm forgetting. Would be the GOAT set that's for sure.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

NAITCH and HAITCH. What heels. Corner spot is lol.

If they include vs. Taker from 27/28 or vs. Brock from 29 then fpalm. I hate them putting Mania matches on sets because it just takes up a spot. Everybody buys Wrestlemania. There's no need to put the same match on 1 or 2 or even 3 sets.

EDIT - I'd also add the vs. HBK vs. Cena match from SurSer 09 but it might already be on the Cena Experience set iirc.


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Here is the Triple H vs. D'lo Brown blindfold match


That is hilarious!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> EDIT - I'd also add the vs. HBK vs. Cena match from SurSer 09 but it might already be on the Cena Experience set iirc.


Good call here. Forgot about that one. HHH gets fucked by like 3 superkicks :lmao


----------



## Defei (Aug 22, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> vs. Flair Raw 03 or *Raw 07*


Here's an interesting quote from Dave meltzer on this match comparing it to Flair/Shawn WM 24. This is from 2009 Wrestling observer awards issue, Micheals Vs jericho No mercy won Match of the year 2008...



> Jericho-Michaels breaks the ROH streak of three straight years with the match of the year. This year, no ROH match made top five. It ended up as a two-match race. Flair vs. Michaels, which would likely win most polls because WWE publicly decreed it as such in their mock awards, is the one I can’t see at all. I’ve actually watched the match multiple times, and it gets worse each time. Michaels is spectacular and it was the end of the career of arguably the greatest performer ever. But as much as people talk about the heat and emotion, I’ve talked with people live who said it wasn’t there compared to other matches and on TV it doesn’t come across aside from the finish. I think the deal is that few big stars ever retire on this type of a stage, and even fewer have the aura of respect across the board that Flair had. Nobody really believed Roddy Piper and Randy Savage’s retirements on big Wrestlemania shows in the past, nor should they have. So the last real retirements of an older wrestler who it was believable was retiring were Bruno Sammartino in 1981 which I’ve never seen a tape of but was just a local promotion for a house show, and Fritz Von Erich in 1982 which wasn’t as good, but at least was presented as the main event. But that’s a different era and a different industry. But in Japan, this has been done to death, and almost always, with multiple time more emotion (see Antonio Inoki, Chigusa Nagayo and Terry Funk for some of the more memorable ones). Now, what they did on Raw the next night, that was something for the ages and the greatest segment of wrestling television in history.
> 
> To me, the Flair vs. HHH match in Flair’s last Greensboro match was a better match, particularly since it was Flair’s last match where he was great. But that match nobody will remember because it wasn’t made to be a big deal, and even for what it could have been, the finish made sure it wasn’t. As bad that night as it was, with William Regal Koing Flair with Knux, so HHH was DQ’d, it in hindsight looks far worse in retrospect. Flair’s last match at the Greensboro Coliseum prostituted its finish to shoot an angle for a program that was essentially a squash match nobody remembers.


What are your thoughts on this? How do you guys rate Flair vs Michaels WM 24 match? Meltzer rates ***1/2.


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> NAITCH and HAITCH. What heels. Corner spot is lol.
> 
> If they include vs. Taker from 27/28 or vs. Brock from 29 then fpalm. I hate them putting Mania matches on sets because it just takes up a spot. Everybody buys Wrestlemania. There's no need to put the same match on 1 or 2 or even 3 sets.
> 
> EDIT - I'd also add the vs. HBK vs. Cena match from SurSer 09 but it might already be on the Cena Experience set iirc.


You mean this one?

Triple Threat Match for the WWE Championship
John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels
Survivor Series - November 22, 2009

If so, yeah it is on the John Cena set


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Defei said:


> Here's an interesting quote from Dave meltzer on this match comparing it to Flair/Shawn WM 24. This is from 2009 Wrestling observer awards issue, Micheals Vs jericho No mercy won Match of the year 2008...
> 
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts on this? How do you guys rate Flair vs Michaels WM 24 match? Meltzer rates ***1/2.


Good read. I think a lot of people (myself included) overrated Flair/HBK when it happened because of what Dave talks about - Michaels was superb in it and the finish was storybook-esque. Plus, we all kinda thought Flair wouldn't jump to TNA (at least I did) after the extravaganza that WWE put forth. It was a perfect retirement storyline arc that culminated on the grandest stage against arguably the grandest performer on said stage. I'd definitely give it higher than ***1/2. Probably a full star higher.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH DVD wishlist:

vs Foley Canadian Stampede
vs Foley Raw 97
vs Foley RR
vs Foley NWO
vs Rock BL
vs Rock JD
vs Jericho Raw 00
vs Jericho FL
vs Benoit NM
vs Austin NWO
vs Jericho & Benoit
02 Royal Rumble
vs HBK Summerslam
02 Elimination Chamber
vs Flair WHC Raw 03
vs HBK Raw 03
vs HBK vs Benoit x2
vs Batista Vengeance
vs Flair TT
vs Flair SS
vs McMahons & Show
vs Rated RKO NYR
vs Orton LMS
vs Jeff NM
vs Legacy Backlash
vs Legacy Summerslam
vs Orton LMS 09
vs Cena vs HBK
vs Taker WM 27
vs Taker WM 28
vs Lesnar WM 29
vs Lesnar ER


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Defei said:


> What are your thoughts on this? How do you guys rate Flair vs Michaels WM 24 match? Meltzer rates ***1/2.


When it initially happened, it seemed like everyone had it at ***** and people were laughing when Meltzer gave it such a "poor" rating. But after you let the emotion wear off and watch it for the second, third time, the match really isn't anything over the top. Some good ring action for sure especially from Flair considering his age and sprinkle some emotion on there and it's in the ***3/4 - ****. But once you realize that Flair basically pissed away what that entire match was about and the epic send off he had the night after for a terrible, forgettable run in TNA, it leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I remember the Trips/Flair Raw 07 match very fondly for a number of reasons but mainly because my mother happened to be in the room when I was watching it and she got completely caught up, put her book down and honest to God believed that Flair had broken Trips leg with the Figure Four. It was pretty cool to see them grab her attention like that. 

Flair/HBK is special because of the emotion and the grand stage. Had it happened on Raw with a screwy finish it obviously wouldn't be held in such high regard, like the Flair/Trips match. I love them both though. Good stuff. I'd need to watch both to make a fair call but right now my gut says HBK/Flair is still the better match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I love dramatic touches to matches like we saw in Flair/HBK and HHH/Taker HIAC. I always thought HBK was a superb actor in a WWE setting. A lot of people seem to shit on him for being soap opera-esque, but isn't that essentially what the WWE is? A sports soap opera for men?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm all for subtlety and nuance but it's wrestling at the end of the day. They aren't Oscar winning actors and if they can pull emotion out of me and get me invested in what they're doing in a match and why they're doing it, over the top or not, I'm happy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Defei said:


> Here's an interesting quote from Dave meltzer on this match comparing it to Flair/Shawn WM 24. This is from 2009 Wrestling observer awards issue, Micheals Vs jericho No mercy won Match of the year 2008...
> 
> 
> 
> What are your thoughts on this? How do you guys rate Flair vs Michaels WM 24 match? Meltzer rates ***1/2.


you are the dude that red rep me found you ositivity

anyways flair/hbk wm 24 is my favorite match of all time I have it at around ****1/4-1/2 for starz. Its a masterpiece between the two GOATS imo. I wrote a review a couple months ago on it

I LOVE that flair/hhh raw 03 match, flair was amazing in it and need way more praise. I NEED to see this flair/hhh raw 07 match, links would be greatly apericated

to answer ABH question- none fuck hunter :hbk2

if I had to put a list of matches I care for of his

wm 27-28 with taker
nyr 2005
HIAC foley
raw 03 flair
pick your poison benoit
ss 02 hbk
raw 96 hbk
street fight umaga
raw 09 cena
raw 00 taka


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

ATF said:


> Okay, for the sake of discussion, who do you think has the best dropkick ever?


The Big Show


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> I love dramatic touches to matches like we saw in Flair/HBK and HHH/Taker HIAC. I always thought HBK was a superb actor in a WWE setting. A lot of people seem to shit on him for being soap opera-esque, but isn't that essentially what the WWE is? A sports soap opera for men?




HHH/Taker WM 27 had better selling and storytelling over they're HIAC match by far. Every time I watch HHH/Taker HIAC it goes down in rating for me: 

WM 27: ****3/4
WM 28: ****


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was talking more about HBK's performance in the HIAC, but I do enjoy both matches quite a bit.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Well Main Event's going to be some must see television this week



Spoiler: Main Event



ZIGGLER/CESARO :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DFUSCMAN said:


> Well Main Event's going to be some must see television this week
> 
> 
> 
> ...












holy shit


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ mother of GOD

that flair/hhh raw 07 was too fun, why I never heard of it beats me. Checked out hhh/hbk boot camp 2005 as well and tis just as good as there other encounters and im not joking, sytles or who ever that was is the worst commentator ever though, I swear I thought I was watching saturday morining cartoons wit his voice


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I LOVE that flair/hhh raw 03 match, flair was amazing in it and need way more praise. I NEED to see this flair/hhh raw 07 match, links would be greatly apericated.


Here you go (includes epic pre-match promo from Flair):


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have that on DVD. One of the few Triple H matches that wasn't a steaming pile in '03. Lets credit Flair. :hayley1

wait that's the '07 match. Well, I remember liking that one too. 8*D


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fuck, I'm watching it again right now and Flair's entrance gave me chills.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks TLK I found it after the post, I rep you but I already did an hour ago 

yea this the raw 07 one, both are incredible and just a joy to watch, flair has a :mark:worthy performance in the both. HHH pulls his weight in the 07 one though, 03 was all flair imo

@tlk am I the only person who thinks his 91-93 theme is MUCH better, I love the drums


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, his old school WWF theme is pretty badass. The WOO theme in 07 makes more sense being that he was a face, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Slaughter/Sheik is honest to god a match I would instinctively be inclined to suggest if someone asked me what I consider the best match in company history. Amazing bloody brawl, heroic and valiant protagonist in Slaughter against the dastardly Sheik, a nuclear MSG crowd who generate a truly timeless atmosphere and by the end the storytelling and Slaughter comeback feels like an homage to Rocky. The finish is also a perfect tie-in to the context of the feud and is as satisfying an end to the match as could be expected.


:mark: I've always heard things like about their feud and about that match in general but I've never tracked it down online because I always wanted to own it/watch it on dvd, and now I finally can. I actually have one of their house show matches on dvd (from the Capital Centre in Landover MD on 5/21/84 I believe) and I'm sure it's only a glimpse of the MSG classic but still really good on its own.



Arnold Tricky said:


> Three Matches Revealed for Triple H "Thy Kingdom Come"
> 
> Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
> The Rock vs. Triple H
> ...


Interesting start. Awesome inclusion with the Ironman because I've never seen that and most folks around talk it up as a classic. Never seen or even heard of the RVD match but maybe it's one of those hidden gems (which is what I _really _want from this set). Didn't you do a WHC project *ATF*? That was you right? Seen it? Booker match is ass. Stupid inclusion.



redskins25 said:


> almost done with disc 3 of FCA
> cena/umaga 2.5/5
> umaga/hhh 3/5
> baitista/rey 2/5
> ...


What didn't you like about the DX/Legacy Breaking Point tag? I thought it was loads of fun and a really innovative match. Legacy came out looking strong in dominating one member of DX at a time. Love that stuff. ****



AlienBountyHunter said:


> To everyone interested in the HHH set, what would be your ideal match listing if you had full control over it?


I just want like NOTHING but matches that haven't been released on previous sets a bunch of times. LMS '07 vs. Randy, LMS vs. Jericho, these TV gems that folks keep talking about against Taka & Flair, etc. etc. 



HayleySabin said:


> holy shit


:lol 

That's gonna be a slobberknocker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That RVD/HHH match from Raw is okay, nothing special. But I don't remember everything since it was at this time last year I went through 2003.

In other news, I'm finally done putting together my top 100! Will post 100-85 tomorrow.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 100? :mark:

Wait, is that all-time or just Orton? Think I remember you saying you were working on Orton project but not 100%.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> Top 100? :mark:
> 
> Wait, is that all-time or just Orton? Think I remember you saying you were working on Orton project but not 100%.


Nah, it's Orton only. 

A top 100 all-time list would take forever. It already took quite a bit of dedication and some shortcuts to get this Orton list together, no way would I go through the pain of creating a top 100 greatest matches when I would still end up overlooking some worthwhile stuff and all the promotions that are out there. 

This is probably the only big list I'm gonna do. (and maybe a top 50 SummerSlam matches list within the next couple of month)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> I’ve actually watched the match multiple times, and it gets worse each time.


This is exactly how I feel about the match that actually won their MOTY award. Wouldn't call it a resemblance of a good match any more and even if I don't think Flair/Michaels is great, it still smokes it.



DFUSCMAN said:


> Well Main Event's going to be some must see television this week
> 
> 
> 
> ...





















I miss when YES was great. 

Imagine that fucking uppercut sell. PLEASEEEEE do that. Cody did you watch Cesaro supposedly carry Bo Dallas? I haven't seen it yet but I cannot doubt he did it. Cesaro can do no wrong right now. C'est un miracle.



> I actually have one of their house show matches on dvd (from the Capital Centre in Landover MD on 5/21/84 I believe) and I'm sure it's only a glimpse of the MSG classic but still really good on its own.


Don't think this was a house show match unless they had two on the one day. I was sure I've seen it pro-shot but maybe I'm confusing it with another of their feud. And yeah, the boot camp is absolutely a contender for #1 WWE match EVER. Pretty sure I said that, like, two days ago, and multiple, multiple times before that, but it needs goddamn reiterating. 

I know you asked not-me, but I didn't dig that Breaking Point DX tag either. Talked about the whole trilogy BUT HERE IS FCA; 



Spoiler: h



BREAKING POINT
So I just gone done saying these teams wrestled a good, normal match, and here we are with Submissions Count Anywhere. I don't remember seeing too many Submissions Count Anywhere matches, so I wasn't sure what to totally expect. I saw visions of four goofballs putting on shitty crossfaces on the streets in front of confused locals. And a moose (they were in Canada). What this was, was OK, but I'm not much a fan of the WWE-style All Over the Arena brawl even when they're done pretty well (and this one was done kinda averagely). The opening was kind of weird with Michaels looking at HHH and DiBiase instead of looking at Rhodes kick him in the leg. If he doesn't see it he won't sell it. Both DX guys work both Legacy guys' legs and I liked DiBiase stumbling toward HHH and almost falling over when punching him the head. The Boston Crab/Camel Clutch through the chair spot was really cool. They wind up in the concession area where they have a bunch of random chanting weirdos yelling 'YOU SCREWED BRET' at Michaels, and this was just after they worked over both Rhodes' and DiBiase's legs. Then they put on figure-fours. HUH? You're in Montreal surrounded by beer-guzzling bitter Bret Hart fans- USE THE SHARPSHOOTER. Speaking of submission moves - I wish neither member of DX ever used the crossface. I'm not particularly offended by it or anything; they just suck ass at putting it on. Back near the ring sometime later Rhodes has this reverse Gory Guerrero whatever thingy it is on Michaels and HHH seemingly breaks it up by jumping off of the apron and not even touching him. I'm imagining Steph telling Cody before the match- "Whenever you put that Reverse Gory Guerrero Whatever Thingy It Is on Shawn- you will break it up when Hunter jumps to the floor." To which Cody replies with "YES EMPRESS!" and a salute. I don't remember much of the last moments where the Legacy were working Michaels over solo. Well I kinda do but I don't really think it's really worth mentioning. IDK. Needed a moose. If this had Shawn Michaels putting on a sharpshooter in front of a moose it would have been ****1/2.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah I got my dates mixed up. 5/19/84 is the Cap Centre match. Aired on USA a couple weeks later I believe.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, I saw it Yeah. Match was good stuff. Cesaro does a school boy to Dallas which chucks him outside the ring. 

Coolest move I've ever seen in pro wrestling. Or damn near. He's lucky a moose was never locked in a sharpshooter or else that would be the coolest move ever witnessed.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@corey its was meh too me not bad but just meh. I liked the action in the ring at the begin then they went into the stand which was ok but random and then after they started walking up the stairs it went to hell. Yeah pretty much explains the reasons why i dont like most of it,the random brawls near the vending areas, hbk and rhodes and after they all got back in the ring it was a borefest.

watched flair/vader starrcade 93 for the first time holy shit :mark: ****3/4 great stuff.

Edit: I honestly cannot wait for main event tomorrow night :mark: already put a reminder on my tv, could be MOTY stuff if done right. @Corey slobberknockers are what pro-wrestling is all about :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair vs Vader (Y)

Epic stuff.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Yep, I saw it Yeah. Match was good stuff. Cesaro does a school boy to Dallas which chucks him outside the ring.
> 
> Coolest move I've ever seen in pro wrestling. Or damn near. *He's lucky a moose was never locked in a sharpshooter or else that would be the coolest move ever witnessed.*


Indy companies, plz deliver with this.

Also, working on a top 100 list. I've got one made but there's so much I need to rewatch and so many matches that will probably get added.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

See. I knew the wrestling world was effected to the core when Chikara "died". Now this can never happen.

Wait; Interspecies Wrestling is our only hope.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> See. I knew the wrestling world was effected to the core when Chikara "died". Now this can never happen.
> 
> Wait; Interspecies Wrestling is our only hope.


Seriously, Chikara easily could have pulled that off. The moose could have feuded with COLT CABUNNY and CP MUNK~!

Any word on if they're gonna come back? I thought I heard rumblings about it.

Inter species Wrestling sounds illegal. :argh:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

A little late to the party but I'm hoping one of the Sammartino/Koloff MSG matches gets added to the set. I've yet to find a full copy of either match online with their non-cage bout coming in, heavily cut, at 8 or so minutes. Sigh.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I love me some Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy Ladder rules. Match is awesome. ****1/4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Interesting start. Awesome inclusion with the Ironman because I've never seen that and most folks around talk it up as a classic. Never seen or even heard of the RVD match but maybe it's one of those hidden gems (which is what I _really _want from this set). Didn't you do a WHC project *ATF*? That was you right? Seen it? Booker match is ass. Stupid inclusion.


Yes, I did. HHH vs RVD No DQ? It was fun and all, one of the rare exceptions to the HHH '03 reign of terror, though Unforgiven is superior. Have it at ***1/2 actually.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Seriously, Chikara easily could have pulled that off. The moose could have feuded with COLT CABUNNY and CP MUNK~!
> 
> Any word on if they're gonna come back? I thought I heard rumblings about it.
> 
> Inter species Wrestling sounds illegal. :argh:


Screams epic.

Only thing atm is some cryptic messages posted by Chikara alum Icarus on what he's going to do come the 20th. Aka the new lined up show date for what would have been the next Chikara event. I got my hear to the ground and waiting on my toes for the next move.

Interspecies Wrestling is insane. Borderline illegal, tbhayley. God love 'em for all their nonsense.



Fluze said:


> I love me some Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy Ladder rules. Match is awesome. ****1/4.


Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Yes, I did. HHH vs RVD No DQ? It was fun and all, one of the rare exceptions to the HHH '03 reign of terror, though Unforgiven is superior. Have it at ***1/2 actually.


Hmm, sounds good. Can't recall it one bit but glad it's on the set, hopefully there will be some more TV matches added.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was the RVD No DQ match the one where it led into No Mercy or something? I know RVD had another shot vs Trips on RAW, but I may be crossing some things.

btw guys, I checked out Bubba Ray Dudley's world championship match back in 2002. Action was fine for a seven minute match. You know Trips was whatever, Bubba pumped out some strong moments while on offense & it averaged out to being a watchable TV match with a potential "moment in time" ending. However, it was Bubba's pre-match promo that truly should be seen. Always have to love when you like a guy for years, but actually didn't grasp their full talents until they had much more exposure on 'em. Bubba was always a boss on the mic. I have to blame myself for being only 12 years old in not knowing this.

Speaking of the random subject, you know who's great at promos and is almost never talked about? Jim Duggan.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I mean I love giving the Deadman props and everything, as he is my favorite, but Jeff was weirdly enough, the better performer of the match. Taker's heel shtick was at a solid state, but the latter's underdog execution was vastly superior. Overall, both don't need a discounting nature by observers, but rather praise, equally projected.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No Cody, if anything this one built to the SummerSlam Elimination Chamber since this was June 03  And iirc, RVD vs HHH for the WHC on Raw only happened once. You're probably thinking about either the Lumberjack match or the one with HBK as ref, neither of which was for the WHC.

HHH/Bubba shocked me with its quality. Bubba showed a lot of his future-displayed potential.

If there is a God, you know which HHH TV match should be added to his set? vs Benoit Beat The Clock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh right that whole lumberjacks with straps thingy. Whoop, there it is.

If Trips can stomach putting a match he loses on the set, put the original match vs Shelton on it. That's one I'd love to see again. I don't like the guy, but if enough of the matches I DO like that he's be in are added, well, I'll do a purchase. Seemingly worth it atm with how elusive it is to own Iron Man vs Rock.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Trips vs Shelton 04? Oh yeah, that's great. Awesome chemistry and Shelton played the underdog very well. Though I prefer Trips vs TAKA in that same department of matches. 

And then again, the only matches HHH loses in that might be added are vs HBK SummerSlam, vs Flair Cage and the Taker WM ones.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Garbage if any or all of those make it. All have been on sets prior. Not to mention numerous times.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well the WWE certainly doesn't care about that - IT'S ALL ABOUT DAH MONEH :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't know what's worse: the company that constantly puts out the same matches over and over or the people that buy it.

Rather have twenty above average matches that haven't been released over ten great matches that have numerous times before.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> A little late to the party but I'm hoping one of the Sammartino/Koloff MSG matches gets added to the set. I've yet to find a full copy of either match online with their non-cage bout coming in, heavily cut, at 8 or so minutes. Sigh.


Unfortunately the listing's already complete, so that won't happen. 



ATF said:


> Yes, I did. HHH vs RVD No DQ? It was fun and all, one of the rare exceptions to the HHH '03 reign of terror, though Unforgiven is superior. Have it at ***1/2 actually.


(Y) Good to know then. I'm always down for a fun TV match on a set.



HayleySabin said:


> Oh right that whole lumberjacks with straps thingy. Whoop, there it is.


WHOOMP, THERE IT IS! :cheer


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm with you on that.

Went on around on YouTube and found a video that, quite honestly, has some narrow-minded opinions:






Angle The God's "fun in wrestling" brainwashed the masses :kurt


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> A top 100 all-time list would take forever. It already took quite a bit of dedication and some shortcuts to get this Orton list together, no way would I go through the pain of creating a top 100 greatest matches when I would still end up overlooking some worthwhile stuff and all the promotions that are out there.


Speaking as a man who's submitted a Top 100 for WCW and now working on a Top 100 for 2000-2009 I say step your game up sir.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For some reason the Jerry avatar beside that post, SI, was extremely fitting. Like awesome villain moment fitting.

Only list(s) I'm working on are 2013 MOTYC, Best ROH matches ever _(good LORD at how many shows I still have to watch. at least ten)_, & top twenty or twenty-five in TNA history with Shep. I consider the elitist's current list a nice way for me to see some great matches that may have passed me by. Or talk about ones I think are close enough to make the cut. IE Danielson vs Jacobs Unscripted III. I'm a broken record.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

Matches from the Cm punk Bluray

Punk vs Regal no DQ Ic title Raw : Very good match. Some great submissions moves. Regal is very stiff and hit an awesome suplex. Crowd is great (chicago) ***3/4

Punk vs Rey Armaggedon 08 : Great Face vs Face match. A lot of fun moves. the final Gts is a must see!! ****

Punk vs Rey over the limit 2010 punk's hair on the line : The match is stopped due to some bleeding from Punk. But the match is fantastic; Punk is awesome (his comeback from the referee stoppage is amazing) and again a lot of fun moves. ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That Jerry avi is from my favorite episode :lol. Where do you find these YT guys talking about matches, do you just type review in ? I dont even bother

I know I'm late but watched cesaro/generico from nxt, good match, not MOTY but good stuff, love the chops and isn't that upper cut a thing of beauty ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton *(_Summerslam 2005_)

I remembered absolutely zero things about this match going in but man does it rule so hard. The first few minutes are a lot of fun with Orton seemingly gaining the advantage by using his speed until Taker just kicks him in the face repeatedly.  The way Orton attacked the leg after the ddt took the match to a whole nother level. Excellent, excellent limbwork. Constantly going after the leg like his life depended on it and Taker sold it to absolute perfection all the way through. The sequence where Taker hits snake eyes and gets hit with an Orton dropkick because he was running too slow was pure beauty. Really got a rise out of me. Then they topped themselves with the back and forth tombstone reversals into the backbreaker, which was also a thing of beauty. Watching the finish live it was probably really confusing but after it's revealed who the "fan" was, the only thing you can do is simply appreciate Randy's effort in defeating the deadman. This match, is fucking great. Slightly better than both their Mania & Smackdown encounters *****

*I also watched Edge/Hardy from the same show. Intense stuff and at times it felt real with Matt's forearms and Edge's kicks to the face. I wouldn't know how to rate it though but it's really good for what it accomplished.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Let's talk about a pair of matches, shall we?

The first of these matches would be the critically panned Ryback Vs Mark Henry match from Wrestlemania XXIX. After a complete rewatch that time, I've gathered that this match doesn't exactly get a fair shake like it should because I'm going to come out and say it right now (GASPS*)... It's actually good. Yeah, I'm a sucker for two big guys going at it and destroying each other (not that there's anything wrong with that), but it seems as if nobody wants to talk about the brilliant selling of these monsters at the beginning of the match in conjunction with Ryback's bumping like a mad man on a few spots, to the surprise finish & Henry's offense being the cherry on top. This match gets a bad rap either because A: Mark Henry Vs Ryback doesn't really sound good on paper or B: Some people don't appreciate the pace that the match was worked at. While I do agree that there's a moment in the match (NERVE HOLD) where I said "oh no, not this", but other than that I was extremely entertained (OR SPORTS ENTERTAINED :lol). On an 8 match card with only one BAD match, I'd consider Henry Vs Ryback to be behind Punk/Taker, HHH/Brock, & SHIELD/MISC in terms of quality and that's it.

Another Henry match this year that tends to get hated on a ton is Henry-Sheamus from Extreme Rules, but this time I'm going to have to go and agree with the criticism while at the same time stating the obvious; it's a fucking four corner's strap match, how could it have possibly been good? I know Eddie-JBL was pretty great in the same gimmick, but it's like Sheamus and Mark didn't even try to salvage the shitty gimmick, it's like they just GAVE UP or something. The pace is horrid and they replay the same spots over and over again for the duration of the match, making this bout a shell of what Henry-Sheamus is all about; GORILLA BEATDOWNS. Yeah, don't watch this.... Watch the Summerslam bout & the 8/26/11 bout if you need a FELLA/DEMI-GOD fix.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, all four corner strap matches suck. Eddie/JBL is the exception that proves the rule. No idea why they didn't just let Henry and Sheamus beat the shit out of each other.


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

Interesting question, if Lesnar beats Cena at ER '12, is it a 5* match in your opinion?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's a ***** match anyway


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> It's a ***** match anyway


:brock :brock :brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

firsts parts confirmed for the new Triple H - Thy Kingdom Come DVD:



> Iron Man Match for the WWE Title, The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000
> 
> * World Heavyweight Title Match, Rob Van Dam vs. Triple H, 6/30/2000 RAW
> 
> * Return from injury, King Booker vs. Triple H, SummerSlam 2007


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Already posted, man.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Speaking as a man who's submitted a Top 100 for WCW and now working on a Top 100 for 2000-2009 I say step your game up sir.


I would, but I'm not that dedicated to it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Shouldn't you be posting your list now, sir?

:cena5


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES:*

*Honorable Mentions:*
Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio (Falls Count Anywhere) – _Smackdown, 9 November 2012_
Randy Orton vs Big Show – _Extreme Rules 2013_
Randy Orton vs Edge – _Raw, 10 May 2004_
Randy Orton vs Triple H – _Raw, 3 January 2005_
Rated RKO vs John Cena & Shawn Michaels – _Raw, 29 January 2007_
Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – _Raw, 5 March 2007_
Randy Orton vs Kane – _Smackdown, 5 April 2012_
Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – _Raw, 28 May 2007_
Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Wade Barrett vs Edge vs John Cena vs Chris Jericho – _Night of Champions 2010_
Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Bobby Lashley vs Mick Foley vs King Booker – _Vengeance: Night of Champions 2007_


*100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan - SummerSlam 2006*











*99. Randy Orton vs Batista - Armageddon 2008*











*98. Randy Orton vs Triple H - Unforgiven 2004*











*97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) - Extreme Rules 2011*











*96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) - Smackdown, 3 February 2012*











*95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) - Judgment Day 2008*











*94. Randy Orton vs Kane - Wrestlemania XXVIII*











*93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - Raw, 7 June 2004*











*92. Rated RKO vs John Cena & Shawn Michaels - 26 February 2007*











*91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) - Smackdown, 22 July 2011*











*90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) - No Way Out 2009*











*89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H - Raw, 15 June 2009*











*88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio - Hell in a Cell 2012*











*87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, 1 September 2005*











*86. Randy Orton, Kurt Angle & Rey Mysterio vs John Cena & Triple H - Saturday Night's Main Event, 18 March 2006*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES:*
> 
> *86. Randy Orton, Kurt Angle & Rey Mysterio vs John Cena & Triple H - Saturday Night's Main Event, 18 March 2006*


YES.

Fucking awesome, loved kicking it off with Orton-Hogan from Summerslam in one of Orton's biggest matches ever.

Are we going to see Orton-DUSTY on this list 8*D?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Coolquip said:


> Interesting question, if Lesnar beats Cena at ER '12, is it a 5* match in your opinion?


I don't see how there could be any other answer than it depends how it was done.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> YES.
> 
> Fucking awesome, loved kicking it off with Orton-Hogan from Summerslam in one of Orton's biggest matches ever.
> 
> Are we going to see Orton-DUSTY on this list 8*D?


That's what I was going for with Hogan appearing in the #100 spot. It's not that great of a match yet better than it had any right being given the circumstances. Not only that, but it's historic (Hogan's last match in WWE) and one of Orton's biggest matches ever.

No, DUSTY will not appear, although we'll see his son somewhere down the road on both sides of it. :cody


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> *TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES:*
> 
> 
> *86. Randy Orton, Kurt Angle & Rey Mysterio vs John Cena & Triple H - Saturday Night's Main Event, 18 March 2006*


This entire SNME event was great and easily the best out of all the recent ones. The rest were forgettable. 

Your list looks good so far though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think I'm going to start a whole new, different project.

Take a PPV, and analyze every match of it, and compare it to a VIDEOGAME 8*D

Already tried a small example:



> *TRIPLE H vs. CACTUS JACK
> Royal Rumble 2000 *
> 
> =
> ...


Should I go ahead and do it?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That's a bit strange but pretty out of the box. And GTA III was what really put R* on the map. San Andreas was just the game that took it to another level of awesomeness. III opened up for the new world of free roam in 3D.



WrestlingforEverII said:


> This entire SNME event was great and easily the best out of all the recent ones. The rest were forgettable.
> 
> Your list looks good so far though.


Yeah, don't care about most of the SNME stuff other than that match and the Austin-JBL beer contest.

And thanks, getting the rest of the list organized and saved so I can just copy and paste the rest with each day following. Should be 6-7 days when the top 5 is up.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

From what I read of Choke's post, he prefers GTA 3 to San Andreas. I do too, the latter can be overrated a fuck ton. I'd even have Vice City over it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vice City = *****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I didn't use III because I felt that it compares better with matches like Rock/Foley I Quit or maybe even Bret/Austin since those put hardcore on the WWE map, like III put open world on the map, with HHH/Foley and San Andreas perfecting. 

And III is pretty awesome, yeah, but childhood makes me love Carl Johnson a lil' better.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

GTA V = ***************************************** (This rating was produced by the latest gameplay vid, not by actual playtime )


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fluze said:


> GTA V = ***************************************** (This rating was produced by the latest gameplay vid, not by actual playtime )


Judging by the latest trailer, id add a few more stars to that


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fluze said:


> From what I read of Choke's post, he prefers GTA 3 to San Andreas. I do too, the latter can be overrated a fuck ton. I'd even have Vice City over it.


Actually I don't. San Andreas is still my favorite and the one with the best memories. (since I've always been a hip-hop guy into the ghetto stuff, that's also where my GTA addiction started)

San Andreas > Vice City Stories > III > Vice City > Liberty City Stories >>>>>>>> IV

But yeah, GTA V better blow them all away. That gameplay video is just :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Actually I don't. San Andreas is still my favorite and the one with the best memories. (since I've always been a hip-hop guy into the ghetto stuff, that's also where my GTA addiction started)
> 
> San Andreas > Vice City >>> Vice City Stories >> III > Liberty City Stories >>>>>>>> IV
> 
> But yeah, GTA V better blow them all away. That gameplay video is just :mark:


Fixed.

San Andreas & Vice City are the GOATS while IV fucking sucks dick.

I WANT MY AIRPLANES AND JETPACKS BACK FUCKERS.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

5 is looking promising, that's for sure.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This is a fucking wrestling match/dvd thread dammitt ! :vince3 NO more talking about gta





lol I actually have never played san andreas and only IV, Episodes of IV and vice city, 5 looks so badass :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anybody care to give me an opinion on who the five BIGGEST faces/heels are currently in the company (FULL TIME, in the company's eyes of course)?

FACES

1. John Boy
2. CM Punk
3. Daniel Bryan
4. Sheamus
5. Randy Orton

Heels

1. Mark Henry
2. Alberto Del Rio
3. Ryback
4. Dean Ambrose
5. I have ZERO idea...... Rollins/Reigns? Axel?

Crazy to think that there's not that many established heels out there, yet the top five guys in the company's eyes are all face, with DOLPH not even making the top five. Would actually love to see the young guys line up and get shots at Cena for the next few months if Henry doesn't take the belt. Cesaro, Swagger, Rhodes, Sandow, Fandango.... CENA GOES ON TOUR.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd say you got it right, KOK. Cena's solidified as number 1 and Punk as number 2. Bryan, Sheamus, and Orton can swap around but for now that's right. Heels... well... it's always changing, lol.

Of course the real top heel is Mr. Sandow. The ignorant masses and the fools at the head of WWE just don't realize it yet. :sandow


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

faces
CENA
PUNK
Dbryan
Fella
zig zag

HEELS
sexual chocolate
ADR
shield

Yea that why i dont understand why viper is not heel yet. All the top guys are faces and theere really isn't a credible heel anymore besides Henry. I dont see the shield as a 3 man team nor a threat anymore tbh


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Top face is clearly :cena3.

Top heel is clearly :cena5.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

With the opening at main heels whoever wins the WHC MITB can be pushed quick. I would chose Sandow or Barrett.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top faces: Cena, Punk, Orton, Bryan, Sheamus
Top heels: Henry, Del Rio, Ambrose, Ryback and I don't know... Wyatts? Rest of the Shield? Axel?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Whoever wins SD MITB will take #5, imo. Unless it's Ambrose, then who the fuck knows?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

GTA IV is the best of the series. Dat storyline :ass


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

I dont know about you guys but Im getting pretty pumped for MITB and the Aftermath RAW. Haven't truly been watching lately but I will be tuning in for these shows. If all goes well, I could see myself really getting back in it, especially heading into Summerslam.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

GTA IV is the GOAT by far.

Comparing it to other GTA's is like comparing trashy ECW matches with WEAPONZ AND SPOTZ to a mature, thinking-man's wrestling match like Flair V Steamboat


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

flair/steamboat wrestlerwar, clash of champs are slightly overrated. This was my unpopular opinion I said a couple weeks ago that its considered a sin in some parts. IMO dont crack my top 3-4 for flair. Chi-town is the best out of the three imo

matches better
windam 4 11 87
vader starrcade
funk I quit
von erich hawaii


----------



## Phil_Mc_90 (Mar 3, 2008)

I've just downloaded the Starrcade DVD and Damn Disc 3 is LOADED. The Doc is ok for 45 minutes but misses out a ton of stuff. Disc 3 though just looks incredible

Flair/Vader
Magnum/Tully
Flair/Race
Piper/Valentine
Sting/Flair
Road Warriors/Steiners

3 hour DVD and nothing looks skip able (maybe Sting/Hogan but it's worth a watch for Stings entrance alone)

Probably blast through it tomorrow


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

People were saying earlier that no four-corner strap match has been that good. Seen Sting/Vader? It's better than every Hell in a Cell, Elimination Chamber, Street Fight, three-way, four-way, last man standing, and practically any gimmick match I can think of WWE ever put on. I'm trying to think of WWE gimmick matches better than it and can only think of Hart/Austin and Slaughter/Sheik. I'll need to watch the best cage match WWE ever had again, but I'm pretty sure Sting/Vader is better.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Seen Sting/Vader? It's better than every Hell in a Cell, Elimination Chamber, Street Fight, three-way, four-way, last man standing, and practically any gimmick match I can think of WWE ever put on.


I love that match but :lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

GTFO


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't think it's that outlandish to say Sting/Vader is above just about all WWE gimmick matches. Only ones I would put above it are Undertaker/HBK HIAC, Bret/Austin, and MAYBE HHH/Cactus Street Fight, but even then you can make a debate that Sting/Vader is better than all of these matches (except for the GOAT match :austin why don't we have a Bret smiley?).


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

We do have a Bret smiley.

:4/10

Maybe not.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Attitude ERA DVD was balls. Just finished watching it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what's everyone watching tonight ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching tonight ?


Just finished up Summerslam '05 myself. Such a fun show. Probably won't watch anything else tonight, time to revert my attentions to xbox.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Played every single Grand Theft Auto game from San Andreas to Episodes From Liberty City and gotta feeling the new one's gonna blow all of them right out of the water. Seen the gameplay trailer and am blown away by how legit it looks. Probably the only game I'm looking forward to this year seeing as how WWE 2K14's basically a copy & paste of WWE '13 with different attires.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Anybody care to give me an opinion on who the five BIGGEST faces/heels are currently in the company (FULL TIME, in the company's eyes of course)?


Top faces would be Cena, Punk, Bryan, Orton & Sheamus. Everyone should know this by now.

Top heels would be Henry, Del Rio, Ambrose, Ryback and... not sure on that one. I'd say whoever wins the World Championship MITB gets that spot, unless it's Ambrose.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching tonight ?


House of Cards.

Edit: Oh wait, we back to strictly rasslin' talk?


----------



## Apex Predator (Apr 9, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just finished up Summerslam '05 myself. Such a fun show. Probably won't watch anything else tonight, time to revert my attentions to xbox.


I'll have to check that out on YouTube. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll either watch Fast Six or play some more GTA on PS2. Spent all my wrestling-related energy on completing the Orton list so I wanna do something else now.

Was gonna finish Wrestlemania 23 as I'm on the last match but can't be arsed right now.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching tonight ?


How I Met Your Mother on Netflix. One of my absolute favorites. Don't know what I'll do with myself when the show ends this year. Am I the only one who thinks Barney and Ziggler sound (and act) a lot alike?!

Betcha you thought I was watching Main Event, lol.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

> what's everyone watching tonight ?


Kobashi/Misawa vs Taue/Kawada from 5/94, 12/94, 1/95, 6/95, and 11/95. That's the plan but I'll probably be lucky if I watch one . Two one hour draws, two forty minute matches, and a 20 minute match.


----------



## TNPunk (Jun 8, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching tonight ?


Destination X 2005


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching tonight ?


Gonna either watch ROH Unified or Bret's Best There Is DVD Disc 2.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Watching Main Event right now, hope Cesaro/Ziggler lives up to my immense expectations


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Probably gonna go watch some.of the stuff on C2D's Orton list, and then watch some more ELDANDY.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll be watching Survivor Series 98 later today.

I didn't know that Main Event had Ziggler vs. Cesaro so I might watch that now. I also have a couple of episodes of NXT to catch up on though that might not be today.

Edit: Hmm thought Main Event would be online somewhere by now, but apparently not. Oh well I can wait.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  I missed ziggler/cesaro, I may cry rn


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching tonight ?


Austin Aries: The Greatest Man That Ever Lived DVD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WHITE CASTLE OF FEAR Strap Match.

Sting vs Vader series never failed.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> what's everyone watching tonight ?


Was playing some 2K with my myplayer on the Orlando Magic.

Now I'm watching the Ladder Match I DVD.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

*OK EVERYBODY STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND WATCH CESARO/ZIGGLER RIGHT NOW*

Holy shit does not describe this match ******


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Going to do so in like...five minutes. So, :hb


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is there any links or anything ? I live in the states so main event is over

Edit: found it :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Since the new Trips DVD is coming soon is the King of Kings one worth throwing down a few bucks for?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> is there any links or anything ? I live in the states so main event is over


Watched it on dailymotion in 2 parts.

Links

*Part 1* http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...y-tellytv-tv_music?search_algo=2#.Ud4ZDWT71Jx

*Part 2* http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...y-tellytv-tv_music?search_algo=2#.Ud4Zh2T71Jx


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

About to watch it as well :hb


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Thanks for the link DFUSCMAN. (Y)


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

DFUSCMAN said:


> *OK EVERYBODY STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND WATCH CESARO/ZIGGLER RIGHT NOW*
> 
> Holy shit does not describe this match ******


Dolph Ziggler vs. Antonio Cesaro (WWE Main Event 7/10/13) - ***3/4
This was a very fun back and forth match. Cesaro's superplex to Ziggler was amazing. The interference from Zeb and Jack was done well.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Good shit right there, Cesaro is THE MAN.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★★ for Cesaro vs Ziggler. Wonderful match.

Give me more encounters between them, plz.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Main Event doesn't air till tomorrow night where I'm from so I'll check out Cesaro/Ziggler then. I hope I don't go in with too much expectations. I hate when people hype a match up so much. I just set my expectations way too high sometimes. Hope I'm not disappointed.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ziggler/Cesaro- **** DAYUM! What a match. Ziggler's giving some strong showings to get the WOTY title for 2013. It still belongs to Bryan, but with this match, and the Payback match with Del Rio, I think we're seeing Ziggler in his element as a face.

Of course, Cesaro deserves a lot of credit for that match as well. Cesaro beasts it as usual, but his performance combined with Ziggler's makes this the best match I've seen from him (or in other words, WWE-only).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro main event*

This was awesome, just as I expected and looked forward to since DEFUSCMAN mentioned it. The crowd was pretty hot for ziggles so the face turn is starting off strong.Cesaro just keeps impressing me every single time I watch him and I truly believe he is the best wrestler in wwe atm. Im loving these face ziggler scrappy hbk circa 96 performances, bumping and selling is still a strong point but now his matches are filled with storytelling and feel developed. Finish was alittle weak but I love that both still came out strong. TVMOTYC for sure


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Fucks I didn't dvr main event tonight  fpalm


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You know, I find it hard to use "TVMOTYC" this year when most of the matches on my top 10 list, now I believe all but two (Taker/Punk WM29 and Ziggler/Del Rio PB), are TV matches. Ziggler/Cesaro comes in at #6 right now.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

This year has been a great year for TV. Shitty year for PPV. Definitely one of the worst. But WWE has been putting on some great TV matches and they usually involve Bryan. Bryan is worker of the year for sure. 

Moving on, Cesaro is in a fucked up position. Why? Because he's that damn good. He's too damn good. He makes his opponents look like a million bucks and that's a huge problem. What's the old saying, he can make a broomstick look good? Well that's the problem. Why the fuck would you want to make a broomstick of all things, look like a legit threat?

Guys like Cesaro don't go very far. They're so good at putting over people, it becomes their job.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> This year has been a great year for TV. Shitty year for PPV. Definitely one of the worst. But WWE has been putting on some great TV matches and they usually involve Bryan. Bryan is worker of the year for sure.
> 
> Moving on, Cesaro is in a fucked up position. Why? Because he's that damn good. He's too damn good. He makes his opponents look like a million bucks and that's a huge problem. What's the old saying, he can make a broomstick look good? Well that's the problem. Why the fuck would you want to make a broomstick of all things, look like a legit threat?
> 
> Guys like Cesaro don't go very far. They're so good at putting over people, it becomes their job.


Well he should be tag team champions with Ohno instead of in an Anti-American stable so yeah it'd be tough to get over in that situation, especially when he isn't American


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Very good match on Main Event. Probably a ***1/2 for me. I was surprised they went with the DQ finish as I thought Ziggler would pick up the win being #1 contender to the WHC and all. But it was smart to do it this way making them both look strong as Cesaro could very well be the next MITB briefcase holder.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/Cesaro ******

So many great things here that I do not know where to start. Imagine Cesaro/Kingston if Kingston actually did a job good enough so that Cesaro didn't need to be in the position of carrying someone. But then that would be an entirely different (but terrific) match. The same way that Sheamus was the workhorse of 2012, I believe Cesaro is the same for this year. The man just seems to "get" it, especially when he is given the time and platform on Main Event. So many cool things here from him that are worth bringing up, such as his abdominal stretch where he also grabs on Ziggler's leg, his apron superplex, the spinning sleeperhold, and the way that he hooked one leg after hitting the uppercut on Ziggler, and then after Ziggler kicked out he hooked both legs in order to pin him. Ziggler is so at home as a babyface. I know a lot has been brought up about how he is more of a "bumper" than a "seller", but he really does do a good job showing anguish as well as long-term selling of body parts. He also has his usual fun offense here, and he is very over. In fact, both guys do a great job playing with the crowd. WATCH THIS.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't think being good at putting people over is necessarily a bad thing. Chris Jericho's bread and butter is making others look good and he's one of the most successful wrestlers of all time.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn good match. Would love to see Ziggler win the WHC, Cesaro to win the WHCMITB briefcase to continue this little feud due to that ending.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard (Starrcade 1985) - Fluze's REALLY LONG REVIEW 
*
Magum's charming persona and Blanchard as the devious baddy made these two rivals, in an authentic sense. These two needed each other, like toast needs butter, a match made in heaven or hell, as their feud tone goes. The creation of this encounter was initiated when Blanchard defeated Tully for the US title, with the use of weaponry. Magnum's determination to revert the title to his own possession was through the roof. As you can see, the hatred between these two, couldn't just be set in a regular match, the first ever "I Quit" and Cage combo stipulation was made, and there it would be settled. 

This was no wrestling match, a big no no, in that department. This was a clash of bloodshed and carnage, over an isolated battlefield, one leaves on his feet with only the strength of his fingertips, while the other is left on the ground with a bucket load of blood spiraling down his face and with the requiring of others to help establish the beaten down on a solid base of position. To make matters worse, submission was the only form of victory, which means the mortifying words of "I Quit" have to be uttered for the second bell to ring and the match to be officially over. This match wasn't based on a technical foundation, It was the complete opposite, a hardcore brawl is the best simplistic definition, I can give it. The 15 minutes in which both participants endured had to feel like an eternity, and each supposable ending was a beacon of hope for each. Huge props are given for the stamina and will power shown, a truly phenomenal performance by both, Magnum and Tully. There were no instances of grappling, submission moves or a feeling up process. Just right from the get go, two men pummeling each other to bring fourth the uttering of submission. The style of stiffness, brutality and surreal feel were definitely prevalent in this match, for those who are into a style of that likeness.

Expression of hate in this match is probably the best I've ever seen, that's not an exaggeration either, you have your Eddie-Reys, your Austin-Rocks, your Shawn-Jerichos, even Taker-Kanes, but nothing quite matches up to the expressed hate in form of just a (blunt as can be) bashing, no resting, not one dull moment, punches and kicks were thrown, nothing else in strike formation. The audience projected whenever Magnum hit that well-placed blow, in reversal with the opposition, they would be in a dead silence, whenever the dastardly Tully was maiming their Idol with a barrage of punches and a stream of blood running down his face. Emotions were at a high with the audience at hand, but nothing triumphs over those of the two men in the ring. 

Both were at peak of helplessness, bloodied and bruised, but neither would utter the ending words. The referee might have been next in line for this suffering, as there were no limitations to how far the match could and *would* go. His main and only job was to steer clear of the bloody brawl. In reality, it wasn't that easy, Tully and Magnum were reckless, rolling around biting and choking at each other with no signs of stopping. The ref even gets steam rolled over a couple times.

In-ring psychology and storytelling (as how I define them) tipped the scales of perfectness here. Everything was believable, as the audience showed in their emotions through cheers and at times, silence. The face of the match never pleads approval from the crowd, without a winding up his right hand for a punch. The other never rubs it in their face, when he's in control and over his adversary and their hero. There's no mention of the crowd at all, in fact. An empty arena would of made no difference in how this "wrestling" match was executed, that's how real it felt. Another great involvement within the match itself, was the heavy projection of agonizing groans and grasping screeches through the microphone. Each time a moment of defeat was imminent for each wrestler, the other shoved the mic into his face and demanded he quit and relinquish the win to his opposite. Most wrestlers would just start beating their adversary with the mic, but these two are expressers of in-ring art. They built to the tipping point of frustration when in at the 8 minute mark, Tully starts polarizing Magnum with the object because of the perseverance he showed of not conceding with Tully's demands. 

This match has the credit of being one of the most brutal ever, so it's interesting to see an abandoning of incorporating spots in it specifically. Thinking about it, it's no real surprise, as these two combatants understand the importance of storytelling, over flashiness and high spots. Every punch is thrown and executed flawlessly. Every strike rather than move, has its purpose, building to another, until the final acting of Tully attempting to impale a wooden steak into Magnum's face and rearrange his facial features, as the tides turn and Tully instead, experiences it and the hard fought victory is awarded to Magnum TA.

In modern day sense, brawls are a common place within the wrestling ring. There is one that had to come before, this is it, this arguably set the standard for future brawls and climax matches to epic feuds. Wrestlers who have seen this match, often only see the covering and not the depth. They think if they can have equal or more violence, It can be as good as this. Though, that is so wrong, there is so much to this match than mindless violence and screaming. The subtle things like not paying attention to the crowd, the use of punches exclusively, the low dead time, the relentless effort by both men and the facial expressions that have wide diversity in tone, are all the MAIN contributory factors that make this match PERFECT. As you can see from the capitalized perfect, I love this match, so there wouldn't be much harm or curiosity left, If a rating is not given. Bottom line, this match is awesome, watch it now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Well he should be tag team champions with Ohno instead of in an Anti-American stable so yeah it'd be tough to get over in that situation, especially when he isn't American


No he shouldn't.

Anyways, Cesaro vs Ziggler was probably the match I had the biggest blast this year in watching. All 14 1/2 minutes zoomed by. The trios match that followed felt like it took longer to finish. That's how much I enjoyed Cesaro vs Ziggler. Knew those two would blend smoothly.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> No he shouldn't.
> 
> Anyways, Cesaro vs Ziggler was probably the match I had the biggest blast this year in watching. All 14 1/2 minutes zoomed by. The trios match that followed felt like it took longer to finish. That's how much I enjoyed Cesaro vs Ziggler. Knew those two would blend smoothly.


You'd rather him stay with Swagger and team? Or you don't care about who he's with as long as he stays doing singles?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> You'd rather him stay with Swagger and team? Or you don't care about who he's with as long as he stays doing singles?


Singles preferably.

Not to mention he doesn't need the KoW union in WWE. Yes, they were a stellar team. But Cesaro is doing his thing and is fabulous. At a new career peak. Ohno is in the background, still being quality, but not quite having the best time adapting that some others have had. Even when the time comes for Ohno to make it on the main roster, I'd prefer them to have separate careers. They can intertwine at times. Nothing permanent unless that's a last ditch effort. I'm always be open to fresh possibilities when the indie talents head to WWE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Gonna continue doing my Match / Videogame project, with the last 5 WWE Title matches at WrestleMania (Cena/Rock II, Punk/Jericho, Miz/Cena, Batista/Cena and HHH/Orton).


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Ziggler/Cesaro - ****

Cesaro is the man, already watched this twice and both times it was an absolute blast. 


I wouldn't stick him w/ Ohno solely b/c I put him waaay above Ohno atm. Probably the best guy going today. Let the team die and both guys forge their own paths.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

blu-Ray extras for Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come
*
No Disqualification / Career on the Line*
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
WrestleMania 29 – 7th April, 2013

*Stories*
Motivation in High School
Hard Way In
Paul Scream
Resume
Sherri
Diamond Cutter
Hunter Hearst Helmsley – The Name
Wild ‘n Crazy Guys
Evolution’s Fifth Member ??
Shawn’s Comeback
WrestleMania 26
Two Movies at Once
Commemorating the End
Worst Gas on the Planet
Candy Bar
Praising the Boss
Behind the Scenes – Photo Shoot
Behind the Scenes WrestleMania 29 Weekend
Taping Wrists
The Levesque Game
King of Signs

source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-tripleh-thy-kingdom-come-blu-ray-extras/46471/


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets hope Ziggler vs Cesaro rematch can happen down the pike without WWE making the match a frequent event forcing the novelty to wear off quickly.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shepard said:


> Ziggler/Cesaro - ****
> 
> Cesaro is the man, already watched this twice and both times it was an absolute blast.
> 
> ...


This. Cesaro is an absolute BEAST. Dude is untouchable right now, aside from Bryan. MACHINE.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Lets hope Ziggler vs Cesaro rematch can happen down the pike without WWE making the match a frequent event forcing the novelty to wear off quickly.


LOL at your hope :vince5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Other than the Ziggler match this week, what has Cesaro been up to that makes him so awesome right now? I haven't seen... any match in full in months now really. Not just from him but in general. Last Cesaro match I saw was the Kofi match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Fucks I didn't dvr main event tonight  fpalm


The previous episode of Main Event airs every week before the new episode. So if you don't catch it online this week it will be on TV again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Wrestlemania 23:*

Money in the Bank - ★★★½
- With 8 men involved, this one is more chaotic than the previous matches in the two Wrestlemanias before. But two are taken out rather early after Jeff Hardy does that insane jump onto Edge on the ladder outside the ring. The rest of the match is all about spots for the most part with everyone getting their turns at reaching the top. Some pretty cool parts like Orton giving everyone an RKO and the best one is Kennedy doing the Green Bay Plunge on Hornswoggle from the ladder. That move is an injury waiting to happen. Kennedy eventually unhooks the briefcase to become Mr. Money in the Bank. Sucks for him that he never got to cash it in.

The Great Khali vs Kane - ★
- Short enough that it doesn't become hard to watch and Kane did that Body Slam spot pretty well. It didn't even look like he was struggling with lifting Khali. I can't believe Khali made it to the card while several better wrestlers like Flair, Londrick, Nitro and Shelton were left off.

Chris Benoit vs MVP - ★★★½
- The build-up to this was nonexistent. Benoit missed a bunch of shows and the only time he had any interaction with MVP was two weeks before Wrestlemania. But luckily, the match itself is not as much of an afterthought in quality as the build-up was. Somehow, Benoit brings out the best from MVP and they manage to have a solid mat wrestling contest where MVP looks like a million bucks and as if he's Benoit's equal. 9 enjoyable minutes and the finish is totally left field as Benoit goes to the top and connects with the Diving Headbutt for a pinfall victory.

Undertaker vs Batista - ★★★★½
- Why the hell didn't this main event when it was big enough and Taker won the Royal Rumble? But it doesn't matter since it stole the show completely. Batista really steps his game up in the big stage and Undertaker also shows why he's a contender for the Mr. Wrestlemania nickname. Great back and forth action for 15 minutes and some awesome nearfalls. I think the powerbomb is an underrated nearfall. I'm sure many people were afraid at the time that it would be the end of the streak. This is, however, the start of Undertaker's excellent streak for great, show-stealing Wrestlemania matches that has continued all the way until this year and hopefully continues for another few years.

ECW Originals vs The New Breed - ★★
- Standard tag match and nothing really stood out. Originals win after RVD does the Five Star Frog Splash. Not much time was given to this and it wasn't anything special. Not a complete trainwreck either, though.

Bobby Lashley (Donald Trump) vs Umaga (Vince McMahon) - ★★¼
- By far the most build-up was for this match. Constantly lengthy segments every week on Raw, ECW and Smackdown for this match and consider the buyrate this got, I can see why. That doesn't make it great, though. Some parts of it are fun with all the shenanigans and Stone Cold as guest referee but the match also goes on a little too long. It's okay but again, nothing special. Ending stuff was fun with Vince trying to sneak away before Lashley caught him, though. As boring as I find Vince on the mic (talks forever and I HATE promos that drag), he's so good at playing the heel who you want to see get his.

Melina vs Ashley - 0
- This is a waste and I can't believe Ashley made the card but superior divas like Mickie and Victoria were just lumber...jills. I nominate Ashley for quite possibly the worst diva ever. Not attractive in the slightest and no talent in the ring either. At least this didn't last forever and was over fast.

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels - ★★★★
- Great main event and maybe Cena's best Wrestlemania match but I have the same issue with it as I did before. It's way too long and at times feels like a squash. Shawn dominates for so much of it and the "outwrestling" parts could have been cut short by at least five minutes. But still, the last five or so minutes are great with an electric crowd. Not as big a fan of it as others are here but it _is_ a great match.

*Overall:* ★★★¼ out of ★★★★★ (This PPV is split in half in a way. The two main title matches are both great and the best matches of the night, MITB is very good as is Benoit/MVP, then the rest of the PPV is subpar and at times, dreadful. The good outdoes the bad so this goes above the average mark at least.)


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> *Wrestlemania 23:*
> 
> Money in the Bank - ★★★½
> - With 8 men involved, this one is more chaotic than the previous matches in the two Wrestlemanias before. But two are taken out rather early after Jeff Hardy does that insane jump onto Edge on the ladder outside the ring. The rest of the match is all about spots for the most part with everyone getting their turns at reaching the top. Some pretty cool parts like Orton giving everyone an RKO and the best one is Kennedy doing the Green Bay Plunge on Hornswoggle from the ladder. That move is an injury waiting to happen. Kennedy eventually unhooks the briefcase to become Mr. Money in the Bank. Sucks for him that he never got to cash it in.
> ...




Nice review.... Id rate HBK/Cena higher though. ABSOLUTELY LOVE that match. 

HBK/Cena: ****1/2
Taker/Batista: ****1/4

On a side note I fucking LOVE Batista/Taker series. Taker really brought out the best in Dave. How would you guys rate they're series? 

Maina: ****1/4
Backlash LMS: ****1/2
Survivor series HIAC: ****1/4
Cyber Sunday: ****
Cage on SD: ***3/4


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Man, that is making me miss :batista2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Smith_Jensen said:


> blu-Ray extras for Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come
> *
> No Disqualification / Career on the Line*
> Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
> WrestleMania 29 – 7th April, 2013


:yes



Callamus said:


> Other than the Ziggler match this week, what has Cesaro been up to that makes him so awesome right now? I haven't seen... any match in full in months now really. Not just from him but in general. Last Cesaro match I saw was the Kofi match.


The Main Event matches against Kofi & Sheamus and NXT matches against Sami Zayn & Bo Dallas. Those seem to be the go to ones as of late. Only seen the Sheamus match in full personally.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent review, C2D and thank you for calling out that HBK/Cena match. Excellent match, but I just don't see the BIG deal behind it.

Finished watching what on paper was probably the worst match in wrestling history, but in actuality it was incredible: Duggan/Dibiase No-DQ Coal Miner's Glove on a Pole Tuxedo Cage match. What a bloody brawl! Thank you WOOLCOCK (and your family of WOOLs) for this recommendation.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Will try to watch the Ziggler/Cesaro match later, excited after seeing all the praise for it. Has anyone got a link to the match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Seems like I gotta check out this Ziggler-Cesaro match everyone is talking about.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Excellent review, C2D and thank you for calling out that HBK/Cena match. Excellent match, but I just don't see the BIG deal behind it.


Yeah, I much prefer their one hour match on Raw.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Match/Videogame Project*

*TRIPLE H vs. RANDY ORTON
WrestleMania 25*
=
*DUKE NUKEM FOREVER
PlayStation 3 | Xbox 360 | Windows*

When I think of HHH/Orton from WM 25, I think of an old-school style average wrestling match that doesn't feature technicalities like botches or blown spots to it. But I do recognize how much of a dissapointment it was. The build up made obligatory a brutal fight to near death - instead, we got a barely run of the mill match that was way too dragged out, too dull, the absolute wrong winner and unbelievably overhyped. The same happens to go with Duke Nukem Forever: it's not terrible for a badass old school FPS, but it feels way too dull and meh at best after a wait of over a decade, which gave it mad hype. A pair of gigantic pieces of underwhelming.


*BATISTA vs. JOHN CENA
WrestleMania 26*
=
*SUPER CONTRA
Arcade | NES | Windows*

Two 'very good' sequels to great originals. Batista/Cena II (technically III), had a faster pace and a slight more badass feel over the original, much like the sequel to one of the greatest shooters ever,UpUpDownDownLeftRightLeftRightBASelectStart the original Contra. Both are fast, have star-power, and are extreme fun. Of course, the novelty factor also wore off a bit, as both are (slightly) inferior to their originals. Sure enough, the ending to both was different as positive stuff is concerned, but nevertheless I feel like they're a good pair.

*THE MIZ vs. JOHN CENA
WrestleMania 27*
=
*FINAL FANTASY: ALL THE BRAVEST
iOS*

I was tempted to put Batman: Dark Tomorrows here instead, but I felt I was offending it. Money, money, money. Originality, fun, anything of good? Nah. All about sucking ass for the sakes of "dah monehhh". Some might say Miz/Cena is more worthy of a Superman 64 or ET comparision, but there certainly are worse matches (somehow), so those are for later. People only cared about this match (and WM 27) because of The Rock. Hell, great % of every single over-a-million people who bought the event was just because of The Rock. The match was slow, dull, sloppy, boring, dragged out, terribly booked and had no place being in the WM Main Event at all. And well, All The Bravest became a huge commercial success in the world of iOS apps at the expanse of the Final Fantasy name's cashcow power, but the less said about it, the better. You can see the comparision here easily, I hope.


*Current listing:*
Duke Nukem Forever = HHH vs Orton WrestleMania 25
Final Fantasy: All The Bravest = Miz vs Cena WrestleMania 27
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas = HHH vs Cactus Royal Rumble 2000
Super Contra = Batista vs Cena WrestleMania 26​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES (II):*

*85. Randy Orton, Finlay & JBL vs Rey Mysterio, Bobby Lashley & Chris Benoit - Smackdown, 24 February 2006*











*84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle - ECW: One Night Stand 2006*











*83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs Undertaker, Batista, John Cena & Shawn Michaels - Raw, 12 February 2007*











*82. Evolution (Randy Orton, Batista & Triple H) vs Tajiri, Shelton Benjamin & Edge - Raw, 3 May 2004*











*81. Randy Orton vs Mr. Kennedy vs Finlay vs Edge vs Matt Hardy vs Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk vs King Booker (Money in the Bank Ladder Match) - Wrestlemania 23*











*80. Randy Orton vs Christian - Capitol Punishment 2011*











*79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk - Raw, 18 April 2011*











*78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto Del Rio - Over the Limit 2012*











*77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown, 10 February 2012*











*76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw, 29 August 2011*











*75. Randy Orton vs The Miz vs Evan Bourne vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs John Morrison vs Mark Henry vs Ted DiBiase Jr. (Raw Money in the Bank Ladder Match) - Money in the Bank 2010*











*74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown, 14 April 2006*











*73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - Cyber Sunday 2007*











*72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker - Smackdown, 16 February 2007*











*71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, Undertaker & John Cena - Raw, 2 October 2009*










*Click Here to See 100-85 (I)*​


Spoiler: list so far



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Surprised nobody's been in here, nice list shaping up C2D.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Late to the party but...

Top Faces Right Now
1. Cena
2. Punk
3. Bryan
4. Orton (turn already!) 
5. Sheamus


Top Heels Right Now
1. Henry
2. Ryback
3. ADR
4. The Shield
5. Axel? 

Ambrose should be the top heel in the WWE for the next decade if done right. Sandow and Cesaro have the potential to be great heels. Really hope one of these 3 wins their MitB. My guess is it will be Cesaro.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Alim said:


> I don't think being good at putting people over is necessarily a bad thing. Chris Jericho's bread and butter is making others look good and he's one of the most successful wrestlers of all time.


Jake Roberts and Foley as well.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Forgot to post my Survivor Series 1998 review last night. It was a fun PPV to watch in context of the time, however it's not a good show to just randomly pick out and watch.



Spoiler: Survivor Series 1998 review



*WWF Survivor Series 1998 review*​Vince McMahon is out and says this will be a Survivor Series you won’t forget and introduces our first participant in the Deadly Game tournament, Mankind and his mystery opponent. He takes a shot at WCW while he’s at it.

*Match 1: Mankind vs. Dwayne Gill No stars*
Alrighty then. Mankind beats him in about 20 seconds after a double-arm DDT. Vince’s introduction of Mr. Gill lasted nearly 10 times longer than the match. Seriously.

Sable is backstage and is pissed off that Jacqueline hit her from behind on Heat. I should also mention that each match has a 10 minute time limit.

*Match 2: Jeff Jarrett vs. Al Snow *1/2 *
Snow has pigtails. He stalks Debra at ringside creepily and Jarrett comes after him, now the match starts. Snow looks deranged. They go back and forth, Al misses a leg drop off the top rope and they trade pins. They butt heads and Debra tries to give Double J head (I know what I said), while Al picks up the guitar but misses. Al grabs the head and hits Jarrett with it and gets the pin. Not bad at all, they only got a few minutes but they managed to have an entertaining match.

*Match 3: Big Boss Man vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin 1/2*
Boss Man takes control early. Austin starts making a comeback but Boss Man takes him down again. Austin starts coming back again and taking it to Boss Man. They go to the outside but Boss Man pulls out a nightstick and hits Austin, getting disqualified. He continues to beat Austin down as Vince watches on with a big grin. Good for story as I’m sure most matches on this show will be, but crap match.

Cole asks Vince if he is concerned that Austin is advancing, Vince replies with ‘you call that advancement?’ and says there is more to come tonight.

*Match 4: X-Pac vs. Stephen Regal ***
He’s a man. Such a man. Regal keeps X-Pac on the mat with submissions for the first few minutes. X-Pac fights back with some stiff kicks and elbows. He misses his Bronco buster and Regal gives him a lovely double-arm suplex off the top rope. Regal goes for submission moves again and X-Pac gets out and manages to hit a bronco buster. Then he gets crotched on the top rope. They both get counted out. Slaughter gets sent out by McMahon and now the match will have an extra 5 minutes of overtime. X-Pac looks hurt though and can’t continue. Regal leaves the ring again. I suppose the overtime never gets started so Austin gets a bye. This was a solid match, but the finish was kinda dumb and then a little confusing, everyone just left the ring area with no announcement. Whatever.

*Match 5: Ken Shamrock vs. Goldust *1/2*
They go at it fast and hard for a bit and then Shamrock takes control of the match. Goldust gets out of a chin lock, and tries hitting a monkey flip but gets knocked back. He then tries to go for a powerbomb but Ken counters. Soon after Goldust sets him up in the corner and goes to kick him in the balls like he did to Val Venis on Raw, but the ref stops him. Shamrock hulks up, takes down Goldust and applies the ankle lock for the submission win. Only went about 5 minutes but not bad.

*Match 6: The Rock vs. Triple H No Stars*
Instead of Triple H, Brisco and Patterson come out doing crotch chops. Brisco says Triple H has not shown up. Patterson informs The Rock that there will be no forfeit and a replacement has been found, the Big Boss Man. Here comes the Boss Man and The Rock rolls him up and gets the pin. Lasted about 5 seconds. That was entertaining at least.

That’s the end of the first round of matches for the tournament. Quarter Finals start now and have a 15 minute time limit.

*Match 7: The Undertaker vs. Kane **
Well their last match sucked, let’s hope this is better. At least it has a time limit so they can’t go too long. They beat each other up for a while, Kane misses an elbow drop and Undertaker starts targeting the knee. Uh oh, that’s what happened last time. Kane fights out of a hold but Undertaker is still in control and focusing on the leg. Taker continues to punch and kick Kane. Kane reverses an irish whip and goes up top for a clothesline. Then they both have each other in a chokeslam position but Kane ends up being the one to deliver it. Paul Bearer distracts Kane (I should mention he was managing Undertaker at this time), and Taker tombstones Kane. Bearer holds Kane’s legs down and Undertaker gets the pin. Kane hits the ref and leaves. This was an okay match. It only went about 7 minutes. Not as bad as I thought it might be. Though it’s a damn shame that I was expecting this to be bad, considering the two great matches they had at Wrestlemania and Unforgiven. 

*Match 8: Mankind vs. Al Snow *1/2*
They go out to the floor early and Mankind grabs a chair, he hits Mankind twice with it in the gut... but... the referee doesn’t disqualify him. Well great, 30 seconds in and already this doesn’t make sense. Now we hear that it was in fact Vince who stole Mr. Socko, then we see that the sock is wrapped around the forehead of Head. Al Snow goes to hit him with Head but misses, Mankind sees Socko and takes it and kicks and punches Head. He gives Snow a DDT and then applies the mandible claw and wins the match. Well that was fun, despite the chair shots. 

*Match 9: Ken Shamrock vs. The Rock **1/2*
They go outside the ring early and Shamrock reverses a whip, throwing Rock into the steps and then body slams him on the floor. Back in the ring, Shamrock has control of the match, hitting a dropkick followed by a Russian Leg Sweep. Boss Man comes out, stalking around the ring. Rock fights back from a chin lock but gets caught in an ankle lock. The Rock gets to the ropes to a big reaction from the crowd. They take each other down with a double clothesline. Rock goes for a cover for two and starts taking it to Shamrock, hitting a DDT. The ref is distracted by Boss Man on the apron and The Rock hits Ken below the belt and then gets a People’s Elbow for two. He goes for a Rock Bottom, Shamrock counters into a belly-to-belly suplex. Boss Man tries to throw his night stick to Ken but The Rock catches it and whacks Ken in the face with it and throws it back. The Rock wins, Boss Man looks upset, McMahon sure as hell won’t be happy. Easily the best match on the show so far, though that’s not saying a lot. It could have done with more time but it was still good for what it was.

*Match 10: WWF Women’s championship: Sable vs. Jacqueline (c) **
Shane McMahon is the referee for this match. This feud has actually been going for a long time now that I think about it, though it hasn’t gotten tired yet. Jacky takes it to Sable early, Sable hits a TKO,goes for the cover but Mero pulls her out of the ring. Sable kicks him in the balls and powerbombs him on the floor. Jacky takes control again and tries to go for a DDT off the top rop but Sable throws her and then powerbombs her for the win and the women’s title. This wasn’t much of a match, even for a women’s match. But it was entertaining and seeing Mero get powerbombed by Sable was worth it.

*Match 11: Mankind vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ***1/2*
Austin takes it to Mankind early, stripping off some of Mankind’s tuxedo. Vince McMahon comes out with his cronies to watch. Mankind takes over and hits Austin with a microphone (there we go again), then almost eats a stunner but he bolts out of the ring. They brawl around the ring for a while. Eventually Mankind brings a chair into the ring but that works against him as Austin kicks it back in his face, though Mankind manages to hit a DDT on the chair for two. Austin hits a stunner on Mankind and goes for the pin, but McMahon pulls the referee out and hits him. Stone Cold stuns Mankind, another ref comes down, it’s Shane! 1..2...... Shane stopped counting and gives Austin the double middle fingers. Brisco hits Stone Cold in the head with the chair and Shane counts the pin. Well that was a good match, though overbooked as hell and the original ref not giving the DQ confuses me again. A very enjoyable 10 minutes though.

Vince and company run to the back, Vince’s leg was healed all along. They get into a limo. Austin was in pursuit and hijacks a car to go after them

*Match 12: The Undertaker vs. The Rock *1/2*
They go back and forth a bit and The Rock gets locked up in the ropes and Taker lays into him. They brawl on the outside and Taker is sent over the barricade. Back in the ring they trade blows and Rocky hits a samoan drop. Both men are down and here comes Big Boss Man again. Rock hits a DDT, mocks Taker and Bearer, then goes for the People’s Elbow, but Boss Man tries to trip him up. Taker knocked out the Boss Man and then goes for a chokeslam. But here comes Kane who instead chokeslams The Rock. Taker is disqualified and he is pissed. He knocks out the ref and they brawl through the crowd. Well the finish was of course all over the place but it was an okay match. 

Cole interviews Mankind who says that he has one more rock to climb, ‘if you smell what the sock is cooking’. Cole doesn’t look impressed.

*Match 13: WWF Tag Team Championships: The New Age Outlaws vs. The Headbangers vs. D-Lo Brown & Mark Henry 1/2*
There’s a very, very large sign in the stands with the NAO intro on it. I don’t think I’ll bother getting into detail about the match as I’ve sat here very confused and kind of bored for a few minutes already. I’m bored by the rest of the match too. I was unsure of the rules as I thought that only two people would be legal at once but apparently not. The match ends up being a mess and not in a good way that you might expect from a triple threat match. It’s just real sloppy and I’m not sure who’s legal at any point and I doubt the ref does either. The ref ends up being really slow to get to some pins to count them as well. The match was awful. Billy Gunn got the pin, I think. Whatever. I’m just glad it’s over. It went for 10 minutes, way too long. Some of the tournament matches could have sure done with some of the minutes from this match.

Big Boss Man is shown going home after talking and laughing with the McMahons. They said they wanted to handle this themselves. I guess they just went around the block and came back.

*Match 14: Tournament Final - WWF Championship: Mankind vs. The Rock **1/2*
They battle back and forth and eventually Vince and Shane stroll out. They go to the outside and The Rock suplexes Mankind on the floor. They fight into the crowd a bit and Mankind is dumped back onto the ring area floor. They go at it in the ring and head back to the floor where Mankind hits Rock in the back with a chair, then picks up the steps but Rocky bashes the steps with the chair so they hit Mankind in the face. Rock then bashes Mankind in the side of the head with the chair for good measure. The Rock gets laid out on the table, Mankind gets on it and drops the leg. They go back to the ring and The Rock hits a DDT but can’t capitalise. They go back to the floor and The Rock is leaning on the Spanish announce table, mankind flies off the top rope for an elbow but crashes through it as The Rock moves. The Rock hits a People’s Elbow but only gets two. Mankind hits a DDT and pulls out Mr. Socko to some boos, the crowd really wants The Rock to win. Mankind locks in the mandible claw and The Rock is fading but he comes to and hits a Rock Bottom for two. The Rock locks in the Sharpshooter and Vince calls for the bell. The Rock is the new WWF champion. Vince and Shane give The Rock his belt and all 3 hug. This was a good match. A little dull at points but pretty entertaining. The guys had already wrestled multiple matches and were looking pretty tired but they still managed to go at it here. The Rock was slowly becoming a very popular face but that was not to be, he was working with the McMahons the whole time. Though he did beat up Vince on Raw, so, I guess that was part of the plan? Maybe it’s best not to think about it.

Vince has the mic and says that the people screwed the people and they are all as gullible as Mankind. The Rock tells the people they can kiss his ass. Mankind is confused as he didn’t tap out. The Rock hits him from behind with the belt and gives him another Rock Bottom. Shane is proud to present the brand new WWF champion, the corporate champion, The Rock. Here comes Stone Cold! They brawl in the ring, Austin stuns Rock. He throws him out of the ring and throws the belt at him as well. Then he stuns Mankind and leaves. Phew.



*Overall thoughts:* Man there was a lot to write about for this show. Okay, Survivor Series 1998 will be a difficult one to rate. As a side note first, goddamn were the referees lenient. Quite a few times there should have been disqualifications, but nothing, no idea why. Anyway, from a wrestling standpoint, the show was bad. A whole heap of matches, many really short matches. Only 3 out of 14 were any good, nothing was particularly great. However, the show is structured entirely around the storylines to lead to one moment, and to also plant seeds for some new storylines and feuds. In this way, the PPV works extremely well. Plus it’s very entertaining for the most part, I had a fair amount of fun watching this show. The night-long storyline of Vince trying to keep Stone Cold out of the main event and getting Mankind to the main event is great and plays out pretty well. So most of the finishes to the tournament matches actually work fine for storylines but that doesn’t help the matches themselves. What I’m trying to say with all this is that Survivor Series 1998 doesn’t really stand well on its own. It works great if you know all the background information going in but otherwise there isn’t much point in watching the show, as only about 25 minutes worth of in ring action is worth seeing at all. The rest is mostly garbage. So unless you’re already watching episodes of Raw from 1998 then go ahead, watch this PPV. If not, avoid it. *5.5/10*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Interested in seeing how the rest of the list pans out at this point.

Expecting a majority of the list to be 2004 - 2008 as it should be. Orton's career could be summed up a little bit like this;

2002 - 2003 ~ Rookie 
2004 - 2007 ~ One of the BEST
2008 - 2009 ~ Good
2010 - Present ~ FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUU


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I actually prefer current day Orton to 2009 viper Orton. Watching him swing his arms around and attempt to roll his eyes back (and fail miserably) during the Breaking Point match with Cena was embarrassing on pre-spear Edge levels. I can't think of anything more obnoxiously fake and laughably over-acted than Randy at that time. Current day Orton is like 'you bore me go away', but THAT Orton is like 'Jesus fuck, dude. Fuck. Just...the fuck are you even....? Fucking. Ah, piss off'

When is Randall Viper All-Star going to make his debut? Dude needs a re-freshening.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

*Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, Undertaker & John Cena
*
This was the MSG bout wasnt it?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RANDALL VIPER ALL STAR :mark:

Was that the only one you dreamt about :lol?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Awesome list so far, C2D. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Decided to specify on WWE circa 2008 _(and slightly 2006 too)_ on all the matches I liked from that year. Seen most PPVs but I'll run through them for the fun of this. Whole basis is to separate which matches I like from the pack and which I can do without. Eventually weeding it out to the tops of the year. That's more of the hobby portion at the end.

Night of Champions wasn't as swell of a show like I remembered mostly thanks to the main events sucking, but undercard worked. Not including the IC Championship. Pile of turd. Already reviewed that in greater detail; moving on. GAB '08 holds up well. Jericho vs Michaels is only an ok match at best, but at least it isn't bad. Only matches that sucked on that show were Henry vs Dreamer & Divas Championship. All the rest had likable elements for me. Dammit all on Edge vs Triple H actually being fine, but having shenanigans with the finish. It's like a lesser Benoit vs Triple H from Vengeance '04 in the sense that the match was fine and then the ending is little _"why did that have the interference?"_ Guess it doesn't matter. Punk vs Batista was pretty good and that had an iffy non-finish to drag things out. So, it's a common WWE trait. Batista is such a clunky inconsistent guy. He's very well suited in straightforward matches - such as most matches vs Taker. If he's not throwing bombs in a faster pace, he's no good. Luckily that's the route the Punk match went in only an eleven minute format and it worked out better. A brief bit of it was uninteresting, yet they managed to turn it around. Cena vs JBL is still the greatest match ever, fyi.

With the paragraph of random ramblings in tact I'll be going through RAW, Smackdown, & ECW for this too. Probably RAW first since I was jazzed up to relive some matches and see what tickles my fancy. ECW will probably be last considering a ton of it will be on the list for "like". ECW ruled.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

The NXT spoilers just gave me a fangasm



Spoiler: nxt



Cesaro vs. Zayn - 2/3 Falls - Aug 26


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Duke Silver said:


> The NXT spoilers just gave me a fangasm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fucking. Sweet. 

The bookers for NXT seem to really know what they're doing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam 2008's main events held up. All four worked out swell. I don't care about the world; I liked Khali vs Triple H. Don't ask me why it worked, it just did. Didn't hurt when it goes nine minutes and zoomed on by. That's right. Two guys who are notorious for long, bad matches _(Khali b/c the guy can't friggin move most of the time)_ actually had a simple formula come to life with a crowd that ate it up and it culminated into a program that was far and away a ton better than it should have been. Which is the ever popular statement whenever a Khali match ends up being good. Feel like I shouldn't undercut the guy like that. Even if he does suck. Undertaker vs Edge is still a heck of a brawl in the Cell. It's like a confined street fight; pardon that brief bit where they burst through the wall and we're confined. 8*D Cena vs Batista is explosive. Not that GREAT match like I thought it was, but it's still plenty good. So it's all secure. Punker vs JBL was solid and got a rise out of me. Ending looks a tad abrupt. Think that was b/c both got knocked loopy once they cracked heads towards the end. Some good wrestling all around here.

Other three matches, don't bother. Well, you can bother with Santino/Beth vs Kofi/Mickie. It's short so nothing Kofi & Santino do was offensive in viewing and the women clicked for a tolerable little undercard match; with the right team winning. ECW Championship is a tragic farce. And Montel Vontavious Porter vs Jeff Hardy is disgusting. Porter is far and away the worst wrestler of 2008. No contest.

------------

Both Cena & Cryme Tyme vs JBL & Priceless six man tags in July are good matches too. 7/14 is actually a nicely worked bout with a southern style guise about it. Absolutely easy to enjoy, however it has the most daft reason for a DQ finish ever. Cena has Dibiase Jr. locked up in the STFU. JBL enters and kicks Cena in the back of the head. Ref calls for the DQ. Why? Ugh. It hurts things, but nothing to distract you from the good work seen prior. Hilarious part is Jerry Lawler was even baffled by the result. Brought that to light on commentary. Cryme Tyme didn't offer much other than foils for the beatdown. They didn't make the match bad either so positives on that front. 7/21 match is a hair lower in quality thanks to not quite following under the southern style work as the week prior. Had nearly the same fundamentals. And no commercial break so it was a sub-ten minute bout shown in full. That was cool. Interesting note here was how Michael Cole actually impressed on commentary while King was leaning towards an obnoxious bloke. Cole kept bringing up callbacks from the previous night's Parking Lot Brawl with Cena & JBL, discussing JBL's facial expressions and how they told the story, all the while King is reacting as if Cole is talking about something as pointless as Twitter or the WWE app. C'mon, Jerry. He's doing his job correctly. We'd all love to hear commentary actually giving a match depth in 2013. Most of the time you have to tune it out and let the work speak for itself.

OH and Cena & Batista vs Rhodes & Dibiase Jr. from 8/4 is an AWESOME tag team contest. Hot damn was that match....well...hot. Reaction for Cena during it was deafening. It was only 2008 yet it almost feels like eons ago with this kind of atmosphere. I'm not griping on anything current, but wow. This was a booming product scenario. Priceless looked great as a team giving Cena fits while in. Batista was just as great in his role on the apron. He was very angst-y towards Cena during their feud. Including denying the tag from John-boy, which was meant with a very loud chorus of boos. Check this one out. Quality tag team wrestling. And that's the best.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I remember really really enjoying the contrast of styles in the two Punk/Batista matches. Both of them had interference iirc (Kane of all people?) but I really wish they were able to go out and have a proper match with a clean finish. Could have been something really great.

You know what a really good tag match from 2008 is? The Tag Title match from RAW where Punk & Kofi win the belts from Rhodes & Dibiase. Watched it on Punk's blu ray not too long ago (includes all the action from commercial breaks) and it was pretty darn good. I was surprised tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Interested in seeing how the rest of the list pans out at this point.
> 
> Expecting a majority of the list to be 2004 - 2008 as it should be. Orton's career could be summed up a little bit like this;
> 
> ...


Definitely, 2004-2007 are the golden years. He was great in the first half of 2008 then was away because of injury for a while before he started the transition into boring Orton.

I'd define 2010-present more like: WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO YOU?

Not sure if I'd include 2011 as he still had an awesome year as a wrestler even if he was boring otherwise.



WrestlingforEverII said:


> *Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, Undertaker & John Cena
> *
> This was the MSG bout wasnt it?


No idea, it's the go home show for Hell in a Cell and the commentators keep putting over as the biggest 'all star' 8 man tag in Smackdown history. _(actually it takes place in the TD Garden in Boston)_



Yeah1993 said:


> I actually prefer current day Orton to 2009 viper Orton. Watching him swing his arms around and attempt to roll his eyes back (and fail miserably) during the Breaking Point match with Cena was embarrassing on pre-spear Edge levels. I can't think of anything more obnoxiously fake and laughably over-acted than Randy at that time. Current day Orton is like 'you bore me go away', but THAT Orton is like 'Jesus fuck, dude. Fuck. Just...the fuck are you even....? Fucking. Ah, piss off'
> 
> When is Randall Viper All-Star going to make his debut? Dude needs a re-freshening.


Randall Viper All Star :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think the MSG tag that guy's thinking about was the 3-way where it was DX vs. Cena & Undertaker vs. JeriShow. It's from RAW in late '09, think they included it on the MSG set but if not it's on _The Best of RAW 2009._ (which in all honesty is a pretty solid set).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I can never hear enough praise for Taker/Edge (HIAC), I fucking love that match to death, up there with the best of them. Awesome, I prefer it to their WM match too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I need to rewatch the whole Taker/Edge series. Think it was 2011 or early 2012 when I went through them and I still haven't checked out Judgment Day.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think the MSG tag that guy's thinking about was the 3-way where it was DX vs. Cena & Undertaker vs. JeriShow. It's from RAW in late '09, think they included it on the MSG set but if not it's on _The Best of RAW 2009._ (which in all honesty is a pretty solid set).


Yeah, must be it. That three way is another solid tag match. To send the MSG crowd home happy, they even have Cena get tombstoned in the end.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really enjoyed the Taker/Edge series. I know their TLC match gets shat on - and I'll admit most of the spots were very contrived and predictable - but it was still fun (even moreso since I was there live). Not sure I have it over the Taker/Batista series, though. I'd have to go back and watch them both.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Has anyone seen Cesaro/Zayn from NXT? Apparently it's really good.



Spoiler: :o



edit nvm apparently it was taped last night. 2/3 falls match w/"Match of the Year" chants. :mark:


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

The second is super, the first isn't as good but probably worth watching too.




Spoiler: NXT August 7th



there's a third announced too. 2/3 falls :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, just realized I should probably place my edit in spoiler tags. 

Can't wait for the Aug. 7th one to leak.

edit Apparently it's Aug. 26


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Jean-Paul Levesque vs. Ricky Steamboat

_WCW Saturday Night – September 1994_

*Last Man Standing Match for the World Heavyweight Championship

*Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H

_Royal Rumble – 25th January, 2004
_
*Road to WrestleMania Tournament Match

*Ric Flair vs. Triple H

_RAW – 6th February, 2006_

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/steamboat-michaels-flair-wwe-triple-h-dvd/46628/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They just had to put that SHITTY Last Man Standing match on there, didn't they?!?!?!!

Love the other two picks though, looking like this is going to be packed with exclusives, just give us the Jericho LMS and I'll be a happy, happy guy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, I'm lovin the way this Triple H set is shapin up. I really don't have a problem with the LMS match with Shawn being added since I haven't seen it in years and it's never been released before. Who knows, maybe I'll think it's shit too.  I like these little tidbits wrestlingdvdnews keeps throwing at us too. A little bit more each day instead of everything all at once, helps you remember what exactly is gonna be on it.

Does anyone think Hunter is heavily involved in the match selection? Maybe he's actually paying attention to repeats and whatnot...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/HBK LMS is popcorn fun at its best imo. Sucks from a wrestling standpoint but it has "epicness" around it enough to be likeable.

Am I the only one who kinda loves Kane/Show vs Carlito/Masters?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Meh, the set could have done without the LMS match but it's not the worst match ever. Liking the line-up so far though. I'd like to think HHH has a lot of say on what matches get put in.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder if the Warrior match will be on it  We have been paying for that ever since...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I actually fear the WWE will kiss their "COO"'s ass as much as possible and put most of the matches from *The HHH 2003 Run OMFG!!!* .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES (III):*

*70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry (Hell in a Cell) - Hell in a Cell 2011*











*69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho - Armageddon 2007*











*68. Randy Orton vs Christian - Money in the Bank 2011*











*67. Evolution (Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair) vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge - Raw, 2 August 2004*











*66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista - Backlash 2009*











*65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy - Royal Rumble 2008*











*64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle - Vengeance 2006*











*63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk - Wrestlemania XXVII*











*62. Randy Orton vs Christian - Raw, 14 February 2005*











*61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - Unforgiven 2003*











*60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho - Raw, 5 July 2004*











*59. Evolution (Randy Orton, Ric Flair & Batista) vs The Rock & Mick Foley - Wrestlemania XX*











*58. Team Orton (Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Maven, Chris Benoit) vs Team Triple H (Triple H, Batista, Edge & Snitsky) - Survivor Series 2004*











*57. Randy Orton vs Triple H - Royal Rumble 2005*











*56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, 11 November 2005*










*Click Here to See 100-86*
*Click Here to See 85-71*​


Spoiler: list so far



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> I actually fear the WWE will kiss their "COO"'s ass as much as possible and put most of the matches from *The HHH 2003 Run OMFG!!!* .


Ha, even Trips is smart enough not to put anything from that run on, though we do already have a Raw match against RVD from 03 on there. The Raw match with HBK would be a welcome addition too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH '03 does have his gems - vs RVD No DQ, vs Flair, vs HBK (all on Raw) were excellent, both Booker matches (including rematch on Raw) were good, and I dug a Heat match he had vs Maven.

On PPV WM vs Booker, Backlash 6-Man Tag, HIAC vs Nash, Armageddon 3-Way and EC, were all good to OK imo. All rest was complete Wrestlecrap Hall Of Shame material tho.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^will check some of that list out C2D I was telling KOK that hhh/cena vs rey/angle/orton snme was awsome and very fun

fuck the LMS with y2j, I want to see the GOOD hbk/hhh matches, the 2005 boot camp, and 5/13/96. Theses are just as good if not better than ss 02 or raw 03


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ^will check some of that list out C2D I was telling KOK that hhh/cena vs rey/angle/orton snme was awsome and very fun
> 
> *fuck the LMS with y2j*, I want to see the GOOD hbk/hhh matches, the 2005 boot camp, and 5/13/96. Theses are just as good if not better than ss 02 or raw 03


Blasphemy.

:HHH


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> fuck the LMS with y2j


:HHH :jericho

Now THAT is an unpopular opinion.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

"And here come the pretzels"


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive actually have never seen it so I have no say, But the last part of my post is true imo

For some reason all kofi/cesaro main event video have been taken down or I cant find it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Seriously Redskins...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ^will check some of that list out C2D I was telling KOK that hhh/cena vs rey/angle/orton snme was awsome and very fun
> 
> fuck the LMS with y2j, I want to see the GOOD hbk/hhh matches, *the 2005 boot camp*, and 5/13/96. Theses are just as good if not better than ss 02 or raw 03


SKINS?

THE FUCK IS THIS?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Can someone give me dates for the must see/really good TV matches from the last month or so? Only things I've seen are Bryan/Rollins from RAW, Orton/Bryan from Smackdown, & Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event. RAW, SD, NXT, & Main Event all included please.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDdb2dXhoC0 enjoy !


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, I meant how could you possibly enjoy that match .

It's TERRIBLE!


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just finished Go home Raw for NYR 05.. Man they used to promote PPVs pretty well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The '96 match with HBK would be nice, still don't think I've seen it, they'll probably put Haitch's Euro Title 'win' on there instead...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The TTTT match between HHH and HBK is almost as unwatchable as their HIAC. If there's no Benoit in the match listing, I say fuck that shit and will just check out the documentary. Even the Shelton match with Benoit at ringside would be enough.



redskins25 said:


> ^will check some of that list out C2D I was telling KOK that hhh/cena vs rey/angle/orton snme was awsome and very fun


It's a solid match although not up to par with the best tag matches involving Orton.

On another note, I found the pics chosen for #64, #63 and to a lesser extent #66 unintentionally funny. Didn't pay attention until I posted it and realized just how similar they look.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would mark hard if Trips/Benjamin ever made that set. The '04 ones, not the '08 ones. :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> No, I meant how could you possibly enjoy that match .
> 
> It's TERRIBLE!


OO :lmao :lmao yea I like it its simple, unique setting and the wrestling pretty good and straight to the point. The problem with the their others is they tried to hard to make it epic and they drag on WAY TOO much. Im a short and to the point kind of guy, it gets about 12 mins and all were meaningful. I could of swore some one on here shared my likeness for that match, I think it was Yeah

Imo its as good as their better matches. I really really like their 5/96 match if you've seen it. But what there not to love about Shawn 96, just found another house show


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've seen and reviewed all of them .

I caught on to the whole picture thing C2D, I figured that you'd try to make every picture obvious that Orton won or something by showing him going for the cover :lol.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Wait what was the best Eddie/Rey match according to you guys?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tie between Smackdown in May 05 and Halloween Havoc imo.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

ATF said:


> Tie between Smackdown in May 05 and Halloween Havoc imo.


Two beautiful works of art with VERY different flavors.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Judgment Day '05 one is awesome too. But I'd probably pick the Smackdown one over it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Brye said:


> Would mark hard if Trips/Benjamin ever made that set. The '04 ones, not the '08 ones. :side:


I was just watching the ending of a match they had in 2004 when Benjamin pins Triple H after a distraction from Benoit. 

5:05 the reaction he got when he pinned Triple H was just epic:






Still remember marking out when this happened live 9 years ago.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Can someone give me dates for the must see/really good TV matches from the last month or so? Only things I've seen are Bryan/Rollins from RAW, Orton/Bryan from Smackdown, & Sheamus/Cesaro from Main Event. RAW, SD, NXT, & Main Event all included please.


Raw 5/20 - The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston
SD 5/24 - The Shield vs. Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Kofi Kingston
Raw 5/27 - Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Team Hell No
Raw 6/3 - The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton
Raw 6/3 - Ryback vs. Daniel Bryan
Raw 6/10 - Seth Rollins vs. Daniel Bryan
SD 6/14 - The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton
Raw 6/17 - Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
SD 6/21 - Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
Raw 6/24 - Alberto Del Rio vs. Chris Jericho
Raw 6/24 - Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
SD 6/28 - Sheamus vs. Damien Sandow
SD 7/5 - Christian vs. Randy Orton
Raw 7/8 - Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I was just watching the ending of a match they had in 2004 when Benjamin pins Triple H after a distraction from Benoit.
> 
> 5:05 the reaction he got when he pinned Triple H was just epic:
> 
> ...


Goddamn, still get chills watching that. Benjamin in '04/'05 was so great.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah, those were definitely Shelton's best years. His IC Title run produced many good matches, including a match against Christian at Survivor Series 2004 which I really like.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> The TTTT match between HHH and HBK is almost as unwatchable as their HIAC. If there's no Benoit in the match listing, I say fuck that shit and will just check out the documentary. Even the Shelton match with Benoit at ringside would be enough.


Would you still buy it if it had HHH vs Orton Last Man Standing match from No Mercy 07?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Good thing that nearly all the 2004 Raw episodes are up on youtube now. Will be fun to go through them again and catch all the matches that are worth the watch.



Smith_Jensen said:


> Would you still buy it if it had HHH vs Orton Last Man Standing match from No Mercy 07?


I don't buy DVDs at the moment but I do plan on collecting some in the future. If the match you mentioned was included, there'd be a good chance, specially since the ironman match with Rock is also there.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

The 12th Man said:


> Raw 5/20 - The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston
> SD 5/24 - The Shield vs. Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Kofi Kingston
> Raw 5/27 - Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Team Hell No
> Raw 6/3 - The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton
> ...





Spoiler: Smackdown spoilers



+ Christian/Bryan from this week's SD. Amazing bout.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Awesome list so far C2D. 

Randy Orton, Batista & Triple H vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge from RAW 04 is awesome. RAW in 04 had some pretty outstanding 6-man tag matches so not a shocker there.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Any ratings for these matches in your Orton list C2D? Or are you saving ratings for like the top 20 matches or something?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lord Flvcko said:


> Awesome list so far C2D.
> 
> Randy Orton, Batista & Triple H vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge from RAW 04 is awesome. RAW in 04 had some pretty outstanding 6-man tag matches so not a shocker there.


Damn, I just realized I fucked up on that one. It's Flair, not HHH who's the third member in that match. Same line-up as that elimination match after Bad Blood but a different match that takes place two weeks before SummerSlam. Not as good but still another one of many awesome Evolution tags.



Nostalgia said:


> Any ratings for these matches in your Orton list C2D? Or are you saving ratings for like the top 20 matches or something?


Ratings will be posted after the list is over. I've put them away for now because they kind of got in the way with how I rated some matches but ranked them higher than another match with a better rating because that's how I saw it. The stuff up until 80 or something would fall in the ★★★-★★★¼ mark, everything else from there up until the last match that I've posted is around ★★★½ mark. From the start of the next volume, it'll be ★★★¾ upwards, though.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Bryan D. said:


> Spoiler: Smackdown spoilers
> 
> 
> 
> + Christian/Bryan from this week's SD. Amazing bout.





Spoiler: Smackdown spoilers



:yes:yes:yes


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think the MSG tag that guy's thinking about was the 3-way where it was DX vs. Cena & Undertaker vs. JeriShow. It's from RAW in late '09, think they included it on the MSG set but if not it's on _The Best of RAW 2009._ (which in all honesty is a pretty solid set).





Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, must be it. That three way is another solid tag match. To send the MSG crowd home happy, they even have Cena get tombstoned in the end.


Thanks guys. Silly me, got em mixed up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

All this talk of Triple H has gotten me in the mood to watch some of his matches. So I'm calling tonight *Triple H Appreciation Night. *

Gonna go watch a few of his matches now for the rest of the evening. Which ones you ask? Who knows! Reviews on their way in the coming hours.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> I could of swore some one on here shared my likeness for that match, I think it was Yeah


Actually I thought it was genuinely abysmal and I reckon literally the worst match they've had together which says a lot given their many stinkers. I'd probably call it one of the worst matches I've ever seen, while I'm at it.


Used the search function to find posts I have made mentioning it. 




Spoiler: spoiler






me1993 said:


> Actually....I think I've watched every HHH/Michaels singles match this year. Maybe watched the *shitty TTTroops boot camp match* last year, and I don't think I've seen SummerSlam 02. They had one on Raw in 2005? I don't think I've seen that either. Other than that.....watched them all this year. NOT RECOMMENDED.
> 
> RANKINGS (maybe, some might need a re-watch which not even I'm willing to do):
> 
> ...





me1993 again said:


> Yeah, not really a fan of Michaels/HHH matches in general. I like SummerSlam, and I can remember liking the Raw 12/03 and even the long HIAC a long time ago. Other than that, their singles range from OK (Rumble, Taboo Tuesday) to *terrible *(3SOH, *that shitty boot camp at Tribute to the Troops*).
> 
> Actually, they have a match on Raw in 1996 that's awesome. Shawn grabs hold of Hunter's nose to keep a headlock on.





me19933 said:


> HHH/Michaels Singles
> 
> Raw 5/13/96: Good.
> Raw 12/25/97: Six stars.
> ...





> **1/4 is too high for the tribute to the Troops match





shit said:


> late maybe but W/E
> 
> Raw in 1996 (the date slips my mind) - People need to watch this. It's really fun and there's honest argument it's their best match together.
> Raw 12/25/97 - Five star classic. No one can dispute that.
> ...





me in response to WOOLCOCK saying he'd never seen the boot camp match said:


> That match is absolutely abysmal. Might be worse than the 3SOH.






Wow, ranking the HHH/HBK matches came up a lot.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ wow :lol this is awkward then, Oh I just read your old posts and I mixed up the 3/06 with the 05 one. I need to check that one out though, I also found a house show from 96 aswell. :lmao at how many times youve bashed the boot camp match.

Id rank their series (so far I will watch the 03/06 raw later tonight)

1)5/13/96
2)ss 02
3)raw 03
4)TTTT 05 boot camp

The rest are utter shit and feel like 5 hour matches. I guess thats why I consider the bootcamp up their with the best of their match up. The only probelms with ss02 and raw 03 are their too long tbh. But yea their 5/13/96 is their best imo


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Smackdown's been pretty good so far.. what's everyone else watching?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm so watching that Boot Camp match tonight.  Time for the first post on _*Triple H Appreciation Night*_.

--------------------------------------------------​
*Intercontinental Championship
*Hunter Hearst Helmsley (c) vs. Goldust (_Royal Rumble 1997_)

I remember thinking somewhat highly of this match a few years back when I watched this entire PPV (it's incredibly underwhelming btw) but this time around it didn't _quite _hold up. This is actually somewhat of a grudge match with a decent backstory. Hunter & the rest of the company for the most part think that Goldust is gay (which he denies in anger) so Hunter constantly tries to steal Marlena away from Goldie, which never goes well on any attempt. Goldust charges Hunter on his way down the ramp and it basically feels like a street fight from there out. Hunter gets thrown into the guardrail, steps are literally dropped over his back, and his knee is worked over for several minutes. The only time the crowd would pop though was when Marlena was on the screen (rightfully so... NIPS). The majority of the match is pretty solid & Hunter sells his leg pretty well, until the messy finish, which is loaded with shenanigans and interference from Marlena & Mr. Hughes. Not sure if it was necessary to go 16 minutes, but a solid affair nonetheless. Showed Hunter's bumping ability early in his career. *** 1/2*

-----------------------------------------------------

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Triple H (c) vs. Ric Flair (_RAW 5/19/2003_)

Everyone who's ever seen this match knows it has NOTHING to do with Triple H and EVERYTHING to do with Ric Flair. This is under the chapter entitled _A Special Night in Greenville _on _The Ultimate Ric Flair Collection_. Flair gets one last shot at the World Heavyweight Title and gives it everything he's got behind a rockous (is that a word?) crowd and one hell of an excited Jim Ross. A figure 4, low blow, and a belt shot still couldn't put the champ away. Incredibly fun match with a super flat ending but you knew it wasn't gonna happen anyway. *****​


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Bryan/Christian - ***1/4 at this point Bryan could put on a *** match with a shoe or Miz (not much difference).


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Dark Church said:


> Bryan/Christian - ***1/4 at this point Bryan could put on a *** match with a shoe or Miz (not much difference).


D Bry and Cesaro have that gift.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched hhh/hbk 06

It pretty good and underated.I have their 5/13/96 match better by a hair but you can flip a coin with these two being the best of all their match ups

HBK/HHH series

1) 5/96
2) 3/06
3) ss 02
4 raw 03
5) TTTT boot camp

Its funny to me that in a their series, a go-home WRESTLEMANIA match is better than 40+ main event matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finally finished all of the Superstars from 2011. Took me long enough but I buckled down and crammed the final 12 shows today. It only took me twelve hours to do so in-between other junk - stupid life getting in the way. 

Drew McIntyre & Evan Bourne stole the year. Danielson too with only having about five matches and all five being awesome. Brilliant. Oh, and Masters had the best match of the year...again. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Series

Really Good

1. RAW 12/11/97
2. RAW 12/29/03

Good

3. Taboo Tuesday 2004
4. Summerslam 2002
5. RAW 3/27/2006
6. RAW 4/29/1996

MEH

7. Bad Blood 2004

Terribly Hilarious

8. Armageddon 2002

Worst of all The Times

9. Royal Rumble 2004
10. Tribute to the Troops 2005

:HHH2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I love that dbryan/regal match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great stuff, no doubt.

Sick to death about harping on it, but one comment will suffice: only Trips vs Michaels matches I like are the '03 RAW match and Taboo Tuesday '04. Rest can go burn. SummerSlam '02 is lame. The only match on that near perfect event that didn't connect well. How dare they.


----------



## blink_41sum_182 (Apr 9, 2011)

Bryan vs. Christian from Smackdown - *** 1/2

God Bryan is amazing. Christian needs to fued with another good wrestler I'm tired of him being stuck in the mid card.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't see Bryan/Christian but would appreciate a link.

Speaking of Bryan, I just watched his match against Black in 2008. Awesome match. I then watched their match from Raw this year. It's crazy how many of the spots from the ROH match they incorporated into their WWE match 5 years later. The surfboard teases, the German suplex landing on feet -> hurricanrana attempt countered, etc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was pretty disappointed by both Bryan/Regal and Bryan/McIntyre from 2011. Thought Drew had better matches carrying DiBiase and Morrison that year.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nobody carries JoMo, Yeah.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

McIntyre's carryjob of Morrison in 2011 was really good, but it doesn't compare to Ezekiel Jackson carrying Mark Henry to a watchable match that same year :kobe

RVD/Undertaker from Vengeance 2001 is too much fun. In the mood for some more hardcore matches like this one. I know Rhyno had some good ones. What about Raven and Al Snow?

Also glad that C2D included the HBK/Orton match from Cyber Sunday 07 on his list. I know a lot has been made of other sub-five minute matches in this thread (Lesnar/Show, Hardy/Edge, Henry/everybody), but that HBK/Orton match is up there with each and every one of those.

*Edit:* woops, I guess I was thinking of the wrong match. Thinking of Judgment Day 2007. Also in the process of uploading a rare Hart/DDP match that you guys will all love.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Orton/HBK was under 5 mins? Why don't I remember this? I remember in one of their matches Sweet Chin Music was banned. I need to see Lesnar/Show again. Just watched Hardy/Edge the other day.

Also haven't seen RVD/Taker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Speaking of Bryan, I just watched his match against Black in 2008. Awesome match. I then watched their match from Raw this year. It's crazy how many of the spots from the ROH match they incorporated into their WWE match 5 years later. The surfboard teases, the German suplex landing on feet -> hurricanrana attempt countered, etc.


Breakout aka their first match, I imagine?

Remember that one being my favorite of the trilogy. The third match at New Horizons did have the exploded turnbuckle/ropes via the buckle bomb though. Insanity.



Yeah1993 said:


> I was pretty disappointed by both Bryan/Regal and Bryan/McIntyre from 2011. Thought Drew had better matches carrying DiBiase and Morrison that year.


I dug all four _(well five b/c vs Morrison x2)_ that year. Thought Dibiase got a little off at the end of their match, but pardon it Drew made the majority good. 

McIntyre vs Bourne & Masters vs Swagger were :mark: that demand praise.



The Lady Killer said:


> Orton/HBK was under 5 mins? Why don't I remember this? I remember in one of their matches Sweet Chin Music was banned. I need to see Lesnar/Show again. Just watched Hardy/Edge the other day.
> 
> Also haven't seen RVD/Taker.


You haven't? Go and buy Vengeance 2001 asap. Worth it just for Undertaker & RVD stealing the show.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Any chance a link could be posted to this Henry/Zeke match that' being discussed?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought he was being sarcastic.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ah damn, I missed the Kobe face at the end. :argh:

Every goddamn time I go onto youtube it recommends me to watch Team Orton/Team Trips. ~___~

I like the match but it's literally always just sitting there, even after clicking on it to try and make it disappear.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

With RVD returning, we should be getting a career retrospective on him sometime next year.

Matches I'd include:

3-4 matches against Jerry Lynn
vs. Jeff Hardy - InVasion
vs. Jeff Hardy - SummerSlam 2001
vs. Chris Jericho - Unforgiven 2001
vs. Undertaker - Vengeance 2001
vs. Eddie Guerrero - Judgment Day 2002
vs. Eddie Guerrero - Raw 5/2002
vs. Chris Jericho - King of the Ring 2002
vs. Christian - Raw 9/2003
RVD & Mysterio vs. Dupree & Suzuki - SD 12/2004
vs. Shelton Benjamin - Backlash 2006 (if not already included on MITB anthology)
vs. Rey Mysterio - WWE vs. ECW
vs. John Cena - ONS 2006
vs. Edge - Vengeance 2006
vs. Kurt Angle - ECW 6/2006
vs. Bob Holly - ECW 9/2006
vs. Test - ECW 10/2006
Originals vs. New Breed - ECW 4/2007


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least they're giving you a good survivor series elimination match to watch.  

Unlike 2011 or 2012. Those ones stink. Ruins the fun Survivor Series can bring once that's the case.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Breakout aka their first match, I imagine?
> 
> Remember that one being my favorite of the trilogy. The third match at New Horizons did have the exploded turnbuckle/ropes via the buckle bomb though. Insanity.


Nah the second one. Idk what event it was.



> You haven't? Go and buy Vengeance 2001 asap. Worth it just for Undertaker & RVD stealing the show.


 I'll look for it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Go figure the one in the series I didn't drop. :hayley2

Southern Navigation.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> At least they're giving you a good survivor series elimination match to watch.
> 
> Unlike 2011 or 2012. Those ones stink. Ruins the fun Survivor Series can bring once that's the case.


Yeah, they're so thrown together. Although I have a soft spot for the 2012 opener because Gabriel kicks out of Tensai's finisher and Kidd/Gabriel look awesome in it.

But when you think back to the ones that worked great, back in '03, '04 and '05, they had great angles behind them. WHY IN THE FUCK WAS IT TEAM FOLEY/ZIGGLER? :lmao

Edit: speaking of ROH navigation shows, Northern Navigation is awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Go figure the one in the series I didn't drop. :hayley2
> 
> Southern Navigation.


There you go. Thoughts on that one? It's the only one I've seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FUCK - feel like a plonker for snubbing the awesome opener at 2012 in only thinking of the underwhelming "bigger" Team Ziggler vs Team Foley match. The opener was far and away the best match on that show too. :$

WWE were scrambling with the booking in building Survivor Series last year. It was Team Punk vs Team Foley. Ok, cool. Then the next week it's the triple threat made and now Dolph is getting his own team as part of his rub. Umm...ok? Why not make this the plan from the beginning? Lolz.

I bought Northern Navigation a few months ago. Still haven't gotten around to watching. It still looks like potential to be the best show of '08. :mark:

@Greg

Oh it's great. I thought it was the weakest of the three that year, but that's hardly a drawback in any capacity. Tbf, the only one I own is Breakout so that's the freshest for my memory. I wouldn't mind getting a chance to relive both Southern Navigation & New Horizons matches and see where they could rank up now.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm gonna need to check out the others now. I have a bad habit of watching series out of order.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I make an effort to not do that. It's a pet peeve considering if the workers play off their previous matches. Always have to watch in order, myself.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol when u said at Greg I thought u were talking to me

I literally can't sleep and it's about 200 am I need to watch something I guess. Maybe a hhh/lesnar


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah I was just searching for Bryan/Rollins and the So. Navigation popped up so I said fuck it. Plus, I don't know the history of ROH like you so I couldn't have told you how many matches they had. I just knew it wasn't the first.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> FUCK - feel like a plonker for snubbing the awesome opener at 2012 in only thinking of the underwhelming "bigger" Team Ziggler vs Team Foley match. The opener was far and away the best match on that show too. :$
> 
> WWE were scrambling with the booking in building Survivor Series last year. It was Team Punk vs Team Foley. Ok, cool. Then the next week it's the triple threat made and now Dolph is getting his own team as part of his rub. Umm...ok? Why not make this the plan from the beginning? Lolz.
> 
> ...


I thought it was weird because they didn't really even have Foley and Ziggler going at it or anything. Neither team even seemed to be inspired to be on their team. Back in the '05 one where it was SD vs Raw, they managed to bring out the brand pride in everyone.

And it's great, man.  Got it for $5 at a used DVD/Video game store last summer. was shocked they had ROH DVDs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah I was just searching for Bryan/Rollins and the So. Navigation popped up so I said fuck it. Plus, I don't know the history of ROH like you so I couldn't have told you how many matches they had. I just knew it wasn't the first.


Make it a project in your down time to brush up on ROH history.  :mark:



redskins25 said:


> Lol when u said at Greg I thought u were talking to me
> 
> I literally can't sleep and it's about 200 am I need to watch something I guess. Maybe a hhh/lesnar


Priceless vs John Cena & Batista 8/4/08 (Y)



Brye said:


> I thought it was weird because they didn't really even have Foley and Ziggler going at it or anything. Neither team even seemed to be inspired to be on their team. Back in the '05 one where it was SD vs Raw, they managed to bring out the brand pride in everyone.
> 
> And it's great, man.  Got it for $5 at a used DVD/Video game store last summer. was shocked they had ROH DVDs.


It was just a very lazy way to stick all these names on the card and give Dolph a rub while he eventually goes into a sole program vs Cena. It was evident. Match was just so uninspired.

Five bucks? Steal. I paid around twelve off of highspots.com and it was new, so I was cool with that. Got a few others from '09 in the same order for only five bucks though.

No kidding. Finding legit ROH shows in a store is amazing.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Make it a project in your down time to brush up on ROH history.  :mark:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This place had Northern Navigation, their first show, DBD I & II and a few others. I already owned both DBD so I left them but every used DVD there was $5 or under. :mark:

Also, I'd mark if TLK took up watching some more ROH, especially '05-'08 stuff. 

Lastly, Bryan/Christian from Smackdown was very, very good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If they had Vendetta II, I'm gonna go start looking at every pawn shop, random video game or DVD establishment I can find and see if I'll luck out. The price for those is simply grand to boot. Finding them in one thing; having an uber affordable price too? Wow.

2005 - 2008: not much out there that was better. He'd have to go back to 2004 just for all of Joe's matches during his championship reign. vs Punker x3, vs Jay Briscoe in the cage, vs Aries @ Final Battle, vs Danielson. Epics.

Probably going to cram in Smackdown tonight. At least Danielson vs Christian. Went bonkers when I saw the card for the show on Wednesday all thanks to that being the opener.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

They made a Vendetta II?! I own the first one and love the two main events.

Very true, '04 had some great stuff as well. Love Joe's reign.

Smackdown was pretty decent overall. At the very least watchable. I'm excited for MITB though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, haha. That's where the Danielson vs Claudio '08 program began. Main event was Jacobs vs Aries in their first grudge match of the year. Also has Generico & Steen vs Black & Necro. I MUST get those in my collection.

'04 was a step up for the company as a whole. Then '05 came and kind of knocked it off the page. Then 2006 was next. Woo. Those guys kept on raising the bar. It's tremendous.

Pumped for MITB too. I wonder who or if they'll be a replacement for Kane in the WWE Championship ladder match. It has to be a main event type guy so it can't be a random inclusion like Bray Wyatt. Not quite sure. Unless they have Ryback worm his way in via Vickie hint back on RAW. What would be the point if he doesn't win though? There's interest all around. Love me MITB. As I've got into before. :hayley3

Well, going to watch Smackdown now as it so happens. YES.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just finished uploading a match that is not streaming anywhere else: Bret Hart vs. Diamond Dallas Page on the 8/17/98 edition of Nitro. Most certainly worth a watch.

https://vimeo.com/70229507

Also felt in the mood to come back to my Top 20 DDP project that I started a couple months ago. Here are links and rankings of #20-13 from that list that I already reviewed.



Spoiler: 20



http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18657002-post13849.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18492034-post13378.html

#20: w/ Chris Benoit vs. Raven/Saturn (2/19/98) 
#19: Vs. Kanyon/Jeff Jarrett Superbrawl 01 
#18: Vs. Chavo Guerrero Fall Brawl 96
#17: Vs. Eddy Guerrero Starrcade 96
#16: w/ Kanyon vs. Benoit/Saturn GAB 99 
#15: Vs. Johnny B. Badd World War III 95 
#14: Vs. Chris Benoit 2/5/98
#13: Jersey Triad vs. Benoit/Saturn Bash At The Beach 99



And now for the next two entries in the list:

*TOP 20 DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE MATCHES:*

*#12: vs. Goldberg (4/19/99) *


Spoiler: 12



Their “forgotten” match that happened in the middle of DDP’s short but sweet World Title reign. Hot Nitro crowd here that can’t wait for this battle between two top stars that did not disappoint their last time around (or did they? unk2). This time around, Page is the heel here.

Early on in the match, Goldberg asserts his power by tossing Page around in collar-and-elbow tie-ups, but Page establishes his intelligence and cunning nature with his arm drag reversals. That really is the basic story behind this match, but like most DDP matches, a simple story goes a long way. One thing special about this match here is that Page utilizes moves that we have never seen him use before. For whatever great reason, Page busts out tons of cruiserweight maneuvers, including a headscissor takedown. He even recovered from the spear better than anyone I have ever seen! Since Page is a heel, he is allowed to have a semi-lengthy control segment which benefits us all. Goldberg also busts out some cool moves himself, including a half-nelson suplex after countering DDP’s spear attempt.

Towards the middle of the watch, we get this cool moment where both guys have a standoff and then go to opposite corners of the ring and stare at each other. Goldberg then goes for the spear, but then Page reverses it the same way he did in their first encounter. This is when the really hot finishing stretch occurs which then leads to a fiery DDP beatdown on Goldberg that you must watch. This match isn’t one to watch if you want some crazy intricate technical puro nonsense, but it is just ten minutes of non-stop fun that accentuates how well DDP is at carrying inferior wrestlers and structuring a match that shows their positives. Also includes an awesome ref bump that you certainly have never seen before. LOL at the wild Kevin Nash that appears in the post-match as well.



*#11: Vs. Bret Hart (10/26/98) *


Spoiler: 11



These two fought in a spectacular sub-five minute match about a month ago for the US Title before this battle here that I highly recommend. A lot of people do not recall this, but Page and Bret had a really good feud in the second half of 98 surrounding the US Title before Page moved on to Goldberg. 

Unlike almost every match that is listed on here so far, this is not exactly wrestled entirely in the “DDP” style, but it is more of a hybrid of both Page’s main event matches and Bret’s classic style. The beginning is wrestled in a mat-based “Bret” style, which is probably the best choice. In between Bret’s control segment, we get bits of DDP’s little face flurries (including our Diamond Cutter tease we all love), which creates a very interesting juxtaposition between Bret’s slow methodical offense and Page’s sharp responses. Bret’s mat-dominant offense also works well because it causes DDP to literally make his comebacks from the ground up, which creates a real nice visual, such as Page’s punches from his knees on Bret after Bret hits the DDT on DDP.

As the match goes on, we slowly move from this being a Bret-dominant match to more of Page’s main-event style that never fails. What kickstarted this was Bret’s SICK superplex on Page seven minutes in (one of the best superplexes ever). As Bret starts trying to finish the job with Page, he also loses his temper towards the referee, which gives Page his slim chance of hope. Another awesome visual occurs here where Page crawls his way to a standing Bret instead of moving away from him. Slowly but surely DDP gets his chance to finally beat some sense into Hart with his crowd-interacting offense, but like many of Page’s opponents, Bret saves himself from the onslaught through dirty tactics. We get a little callback spot from Bret’s match the night before at Halloween Havoc against Sting where Bret pulls out some brass knuckles, but DDP telegraphs it in time (like he always does considering that his character was based on being the best scout in the business) to save himself. Not gonna give out the ending, but as you would probably guess, the match finishes in a way that only a Diamond Dallas Page match ever could. Not too long of a match at around ten minutes long, but not a dull moment in sight.

Recommended for further viewing: Their match on 7/20/98. Four minutes of beauty and pain.



Gonna start adding pictures a la Evan/C2D once I get done with the top ten.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The 12th Man said:


> With RVD returning, we should be getting a career retrospective on him sometime next year.
> 
> Matches I'd include:
> 
> ...


gosh not enough original ECW.

add in all of his matches vs. Sabu. May not be masterpieces nowadays but back then they were revolutionary and it blew me away as a 16yo.
rvd/sabu vs eliminators - tables and ladders match
rvd/sabu vs shinzaki/hayabusa (i think)
rvd vs bam bam when he wins the world title (another match ahead of it's time)
rvd/sabu vs sandman/dreamer in july of '97 (infamous dreamer ball shot)
rvd vs taz was fun a few times but i don't remember it standing out like the ones above
it's too bad rvd was just a few months to late to face benoit, malenko, eddie, and especially rey in 95.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

No match featuring the team of Dupree & Suzuki should be on any set ever. They were an awful team and pulling ** out of them was a miracle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE wouldn't put a lot of RVD matches on a (_rhetorical)_ second set that originally made his first.

------------

Danielson vs Christian was a heck of a sprint. Guys were oh so smooth.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Nah the second one. Idk what event it was.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll look for it.


The Taker/RVD match is in my sig if you need it.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

What's everyone looking forward to at MITB?

For me it's a toss up between the All-Star MITB and Cena/Henry. 

If the WWE MITB is kept to 6 men, it could be even better. I never liked that they changed the format from 6 to 8, but at least it was an even number. 7 participants makes no sense. It's so awkward and unnecessary. Why overcrowd the thing?

ADR/Ziggler could be the dark horse match.

In order of fucks given:

1. WWE MITB
2. Cena/Henry
3. ADR/Ziggler
4. WHC MITB
5. Shield/Usos
6. Jericho/Ryback
7. AJ/Kaitlyn
(N) Axel/Miz


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I could see the Jericho/Ryback match getting an added stipulation of whoever wins gets put into the all stars match later on. Would make sense I guess. I'd rather they keep it at 6 aswell though, stops everything getting too crowded. I also don't like the idea that's been talked about of Bray Wyatt being Kane's replacement. It would be a lose-lose situation. Either he loses his first match, which is never good. Or he wins the briefcase way too early in his WWE career. 

As Duke put it, in order of fucks given:

1. WWE MITB
2. Cena/Henry
3. WHC MITB
4. ADR/Ziggler
5. Jericho/Ryback (hoping this to be better than expected)
6. Shield/Usos
7. AJ/Kaitlyn
8. Axel/Miz

On paper it's a very strong card, since I'm interested in every match apart from the bottom one. I'm liking the divas feud at the moment and their Payback match was good so hopefully this one can be solid too. At least we'll probably get to see AJ sell another spear.


----------



## Berbz (Jun 24, 2013)

I find myself caring more about the WHC Money in the Bank match than the actual All Star one. The WHC match is a chance to for future stars to shine. I was originally thinking Ambrose would win but for some reason I'm expecting someone else to do it, I can't call it. Then again I used to think Bryan was a shoe in for the all star one and I can't call that one now either after Bryan and Orton both looked ridiculously strong the past week and both getting the briefcase, get a nagging feeling Sheamus may 'overcome the odds' and grab it, fuck.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Both ladder matches have a ton of potential, the smackdown one is so hard to call, I keep changing my mind, but think I'll stick to Sandow for now or Ambrose lol.

Both main title matches could be solid, don't care about the rest but there's certainly enough for a very good show


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm just hoping that Orton wins the red briefcase. That's what I'm looking forward to first and foremost. Then the Henry/Cena match should be good but not enough for me to stay up and be excited about it.



Brye said:


> But when you think back to the ones that worked great, back in '03, '04 and '05, they had great angles behind them. WHY IN THE FUCK WAS IT TEAM FOLEY/ZIGGLER? :lmao


Team Foley and Ziggler. :lol Talk about random. It's like Punk went to the back, found Ziggler and said "I can't fight this old fuck, you take my place and put together your team for no reason at all". The build-up was so retarded and nonsensical. Second half of 2012 were truly dark days, luckily, they have sorta recovered this year from that type of stupidity.

Reading the bashing of that match has also made me glad that I didn't make the choice of rewatching Orton's elimination matches from SVS 11 and 12. They both sound like torture to go through again and I felt it wasn't worth it. Plus I hate how Orton's turned into a jobber in these even though he had a nice little streak going on for years.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched the first part of SummerSlam 2002. Watched the first five matches and all have been worth watching so far. The finish to the Y2J/Flair match was weird but still a decent match. Now I'm on Taker vs Test.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, it's official Daniel bryan is worker of the year! 

Bryan vs Christian SD 7/12/13 ***3/4


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Yeah, WOTY is already locked up as far as I'm concerned.

Bryan/Christian was a TON of fun - ***1/2

Does anyone have a list of every ***+ D-Bry match this year? I want to start keeping record but I can't be bothered going through everything myself at the moment.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

In order of FUCKS GIVEN:

1. Cena/Henry
2. WHC MITB
3. WWE ALL STAR MITB
4. Ryback/Jericho
5. Dolph/ADR (Don't give a fuck about Del Rio)
6. AJ/Kaitlyn
7. Shield/Usos (Fucking USOS)
53424523599771356. Axel/Miz

Seriously, why isn't THAT the preshow match?

In all fairness though, if anybody came to me and argued that DOLPH Vs Del Rio was MOTY, I think that they'd be justified in saying that. I like a few matches more at the moment, but I feel that Dolph-Del Rio from Payback was something else, had a certain uniqueness to it which we don't see all that often.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

In order of fucks given:

1. WWE MITB
2. Cena/Henry
3. WHC MITB
4. ADR/Dolph
5. Shield/Usos (Why is this the preshow match?!)
6. AJ/Kaitlyn
7. Jericho/Ryback
8. Axel/Miz


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES (IV):*

*55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Mark Henry vs Chris Jericho vs Kane vs Daniel Bryan (Elimination Chamber) - Elimination Chamber 2013*











*54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) - Smackdown, 4 November 2011*











*53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro - Main Event, 8 May 2013*











*52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin - Bad Blood 2004*











*51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus - Smackdown, 18 May 2012*











*50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown, 18 August 2005*











*49. Randy Orton vs Edge - Raw, 19 July 2004*











*48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs John Cena vs JBL (Elimination Match) - Backlash 2008*











*47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair (Steel Cage) - Taboo Tuesday 2004*











*46. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam - Raw, 12 January 2004*











*45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield - Smackdown, 14 June 2013*











*44. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) - Extreme Rules 2012*











*43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown, 21 June 2013*











*42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman Match) - Bragging Rights 2009*











*41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam - Armageddon 2003*










*Click Here to See 100-86*
*Click Here to See 85-71
Click Here to See 70-56*​


Spoiler: list so far



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
49. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
46. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
44. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012 
43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GREAT Fucking shit CHOKE2DEATH.

I'm really curious as to how good that Orton-Cesaro match really is as I've seen alot of their stuff and I found myself extremely underwhelmed. Still have NO IDEA how anybody can think the Ironman match is that good either. Glad to see the Flair match make the top 50 as I completely adore that one to the core.

Shelton match is :mark::mark: material but even better is the Orton promo pre-match. Orton's best ever IMO.

It's not a stretch in any sense to say that from Armageddon 2003 all the way to Unforgiven 2004 that Orton was the coolest fucking wrestler on the planet. Every kid wanted to be that cocky fuck.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Finally some matches on your list I'm more familiar with.  HELL YES at #41. Such an underrated match (yet to see their Raw match you posted). I would have the 2013 Elimination Chamber, Street Fight vs. Cody, and Bad Blood vs. Shelton far ahead of the FCA with Kane (not that it's a bad match at all, I just think the others are better) but to each his own. I know now that we're in the *** 3/4 territory. Next batch will dip into 4* stuff if I'm correct.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Good stuff

orton/cesaro me is alittle dull for my liking though, It happened about a months ago but I adore that bryan/orton sd match, The rhodes/orton street fight is decent as well. I love that flair TT cage aswell

That iron man with cena is shit though


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I'm really curious as to how good that Orton-Cesaro match really is as I've seen alot of their stuff and I found myself extremely underwhelmed. Still have NO IDEA how anybody can think the Ironman match is that good either. Glad to see the Flair match make the top 50 as I completely adore that one to the core.


I feel ya on the Orton/Cesaro thing but this match is the exception. It's not the Main Event one that got 20 minutes and ended with Shield interfering. This is the one match of theirs I really enjoyed. As for the ironman, I don't see the problem with it, seen it twice and was nowhere near as boring a 60 minute match should be. Besides, I try to include 'historic' stuff too and it's one of Orton's most notable, biggest matches. Being of good quality helps too, at least imo.



> Shelton match is :mark::mark: material but even better is the Orton promo pre-match. Orton's best ever IMO.


HAVE A FREAKING LOOK!



> It's not a stretch in any sense to say that from Armageddon 2003 all the way to Unforgiven 2004 that Orton was the coolest fucking wrestler on the planet. Every kid wanted to be that cocky fuck.


Cocky Orton is the boss! Can't believe just how awesome he was in Evolution.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Finally some matches on your list I'm more familiar with.  HELL YES at #41. Such an underrated match (yet to see their Raw match you posted). I would have the 2013 Elimination Chamber, Street Fight vs. Cody, and Bad Blood vs. Shelton far ahead of the FCA with Kane (not that it's a bad match at all, I just think the others are better) but to each his own. I know now that we're in the *** 3/4 territory. Next batch will dip into 4* stuff if I'm correct.


Ah, so that's why you ain't been commenting on anything yet, huh? 

To be honest, I didn't really put much thought into some of these rankings for matches that are around the same in rating. I really loved that Kane match and thought it deserves some love. And you need to check out that Raw match with RVD already!

After a couple of matches, yeah, the next set will enter 4 star territory.



redskins25 said:


> Good stuff
> 
> orton/cesaro me is alittle dull for my liking though, It happened about a months ago but I adore that bryan/orton sd match, The rhodes/orton street fight is decent as well. I love that flair TT cage aswell
> 
> That iron man with cena is shit though


This match is the exception. I share the opinion that their work together has been dull (Orton/Cesaro that is) but this one was pretty good and given the right amount of time.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Excellent stuff so far, C2D. Will you be writing a little more of your thoughts about each match as we get towards the top of the list?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Ah, so that's why you ain't been commenting on anything yet, huh?
> 
> To be honest, I didn't really put much thought into some of these rankings for matches that are around the same in rating. I really loved that Kane match and thought it deserves some love. And you need to check out that Raw match with RVD already!
> 
> After a couple of matches, yeah, the next set will enter 4 star territory.


Yeah, my knowledge on tv matches isn't as vast as others are so the first half of the list was basically me just saying "huh, never seen it." haha. I'm expecting Undertaker to make some appearances in the next batch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Excellent stuff so far, C2D. Will you be writing a little more of your thoughts about each match as we get towards the top of the list?


Haven't really thought about writing down any detailed opinions but now that you mention it, I might add some sentences for the top 10 matches, which will come separately under 10-6 and 5-1.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, my knowledge on tv matches isn't as vast as others are so the first half of the list was basically me just saying "huh, never seen it." haha. I'm expecting Undertaker to make some appearances in the next batch.


Taker's first appearance in singles competition will be at the top of next batch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all better forget your Taker/Cena dreams:






That's NOT fanmade :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Been refreshing my DANIELSON 2013 knowledge today as I just rewatched the pair of Ryback matches on top of the Rollins singles bout. All three are fucking awesome with Bryan being the ultimate underdog in the Ryback matches on top of working excellent from the bottom against Rollins as well. Ryback isn't remotely a good worker yet Bryan has managed to have two GREAT matches with the guy that would probably end up on my top 25 matches on the year so far. 

What exactly should I watch next?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea its so weird Orton and Benoit are probably the two superstars of the last decade that I for some reason dont remember any of their matches. Some of the stuff C2d is posting I have no recollection of at all. Im pretty aware of orton 2009-present but most the stuff is a blur

May do a ziggler project or Shawn 96 down the line since some of us are doing projects of some of our favorites

Edit: literaly every kid did the legend killer pose and though sparks flew off behind them at one point


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Shelton match is :mark::mark: material but even better is the Orton promo pre-match. Orton's best ever IMO.


That promo is epic. "GET A LOOK, AT GREATNESS!" :mark: The match was good too. 



The Beast Incarnate said:


> It's not a stretch in any sense to say that from Armageddon 2003 all the way to Unforgiven 2004 that Orton was the coolest fucking wrestler on the planet. Every kid wanted to be that cocky fuck.


I can attest to that because I was doing that Legend Killer pose constantly at that time. He had it all at the time, who wouldn't want to be him lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Been refreshing my DANIELSON 2013 knowledge today as I just rewatched the pair of Ryback matches on top of the Rollins singles bout. All three are fucking awesome with Bryan being the ultimate underdog in the Ryback matches on top of working excellent from the bottom against Rollins as well. Ryback isn't remotely a good worker yet Bryan has managed to have two GREAT matches with the guy that would probably end up on my top 25 matches on the year so far.
> 
> What exactly should I watch next?


Bryan/Christian from SD this week :cool2

EDIT: I'm going to suspend the Match/Videogame stuff for now since I'm entering a Top 100 SummerSlam match project. There are a lot of great gems after all - Skip/Horowitz from 1995 I remember loving.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

EDIT: Double post, sorry.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

You don't say? I didn't even know there was a 6-man at SS '93


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5twap_smoking-gunns-tatanka-vs-headshrink_sport#.UeGpMG0WdnA

That and Steiners vs Heavenly Bodies also from SS 93 are very good imo. This one features some nice big man work and flow.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I remember one year for Halloween I was Randy Orton (2004 - 11 years old wens)


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Duke Silver said:


> Yeah, WOTY is already locked up as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Bryan/Christian was a TON of fun - ***1/2
> 
> Does anyone have a list of every ***+ D-Bry match this year? I want to start keeping record but I can't be bothered going through everything myself at the moment.


Don't have a clue about the dates but...

Bryan/Undertaker/Kane v The Shield - ***1/2
Bryan/Kane/Kofi v The Shield - ****
Bryan v Ryback, Smackdown - ***
Bryan v Ryback, Raw - ***1/2
Bryan v Orton, Raw street fight - ***1/4
Bryan v Sheamus, Raw - ***1/2
Bryan v Christian - ***1/2
Bryan v Orton, Smackdown - ***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MITB:

1) Cena vs Henry
2) World Championship Ladder Match
3) Dolph vs Del Rio
4) WWE Championship Ladder Match
5) Jericho vs Ryback
6) AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn
7) Shield vs Usos
8) Axel vs Miz

Last two are interchangeable. Shield & Axel I'm looking forward to seeing work, but I couldn't care less about their tripe-like opponents. If only Miz wasn't a horrendous face. He'd actually be fine, considering I like at all other times. Cutting the obnoxious figure four goes along with that. Usos, yeah, they've always been blah.


----------



## RKing85 (Mar 22, 2010)

finished War Games. Sad how it went from what it was to what it ended up being in the later years. Kind of like WCW. Good to shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A natural progression once you think about it. Tbf, it's no different than any other WWE staples becoming watered down over the years too. War Games used to be an epic means for grudges, just like Hell in a Cell. Years later both would drop off and be nothing you need to go out of your way to check out. 

I'll gladly toss in Elimination Chamber in the same boat.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

WWE making PPVs out of gimmick matches was something Ive never been too fond for the very reason that it takes away the feel from it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly.

Always thought it was ironic how WWE cans a gimmick PPV like Cyber Sunday in favor for gimmick PPVs where it means this "type of match" has to happen there. I mean if you have to have a PPV with a theme, make it around something more universal. Heading into each year knowing when the only Chamber & Hell in a Cell matches are set is blah. Luckily TLC PPV hasn't hurt TLC matches. They can pop up sporadically in other portions of the year and keep the feel. I guess that's just like ladder matches in general, tbf.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Technically Royal Rumble is a gimmick PPV too, Cody. :kobe


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well they're generally dreadful these days so that fits.

MITB. The only gimmick PPV I care about. Prefer it on their own show over WM, tbhayley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No care for Extreme Rules or TLC?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Depends on the show each year. Sometimes you get 2012 Extreme Rules & 2010 TLC. Then sometimes you get 2013 Extreme Rules & 2009 TLC.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

actually ec is my favorite "gimmick" match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't wanna be a sleeve, but this is badass enough to be on this thread:






*BRYAN VS. BEARS. *****.*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't like elimination chambers and ladder matches to begin with so you can imagine what I think of them being made into PPVs. Dislike aside it really does take that feel away from it. Hell in a Cell used to be "we need to trap one of these guys in with the other because he keeps running away", OR, "these two hate each other so much and have such a goddamn blood feud that we need to stick them inside of a giant cage with a roof to satisfy both guy". Now it's "oh hey, you two had some matches recently? It's October, so, well, you get this match". There were no HIACs from Armageddon 2000 to Judgment Day 02 and now we can literally get three in one show. Idiots. They still try to sell it as a really dangerous match and everything but it sounds like bullshit. I can understand not wanting to make it sound too violent because the M rating went a while ago, but I don't see why they needed to make PPVs based around the gimmicks. One Night Stand/Extreme Rules had all no-dq matches, and Night of Champions being where every title was defended was a good idea, wasn't that enough? If you have to have a gimmick attached to every PPV maybe you should take a look at your writing team who can't come up with anything to get a fan-base hyped for a show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

need something good to watch preferably wwe-wcw


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Getting my hands on _Canadian Stampede_ soon...feeling super excited! Can't wait to see it.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Just watched the Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton series. Really fun to watch. I liked how they used the Daniel Bryan and his "weak link" mentality with each match from Bryan thinking that Orton pities him and how a count out victory wasn't good enough and how more aggressive he gets with each match, creating a sense of urgency from Bryan to prove to the world and himself. Great back and forth action between the two, with both of them getting more aggressive with each match and all in all, great storytelling with a satisfying ending with DB finally defeating Orton and thus earning his respect. Overall, a fun series to watch with great storytelling.

My ratings for each match:

Bryan vs. Orton I - ***1/4
Bryan vs. Orton II - ***1/2
Bryan vs. Orton III - **3/4 (Short but fun brawl)
Bryan vs. Orton IV - ****

I'm also glad that WWE decided to put up the matches in their entirety for anyone interested to watch or relive those matches:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

oh wow thanks for posting those. i haven't watched any other them but may have to now


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the smackdown one awsome


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Those Bryan/Orton matches are awesome. (Y)

I need to buy the damn IYH DVD but now the War Games DVD is calling my name since I've only seen two of them.

And I have a gripe with WWE. If I'm ordering the PPV, I should be able to see the pre-show match on my television. They literally just show hype videos that they will end up showing again during the matches. I happen to want to see Usos/Shield live with my friends.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Brye said:


> Those Bryan/Orton matches are awesome. (Y)
> 
> I need to buy the damn IYH DVD but now the War Games DVD is calling my name since I've only seen two of them.
> 
> And I have a gripe with WWE. If I'm ordering the PPV, I should be able to see the pre-show match on my television. They literally just show hype videos that they will end up showing again during the matches. I happen to want to see Usos/Shield live with my friends.


Get both of those blu rays. They are worth it. I just picked up the Mick Foley documentary today and am planning on watching it later tonight. Has anyone seen it yet? Have any opinions on it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Night of Champions gimmick back when some championships were on the backburner b/c that PPV meant you were guaranteed to see all the gold defended. No way out there. Nowadays most PPVs are just random championship matches over and over to the degree of where Night of Champions is so pointless. Need I remind people that in 2011 the one NON-title match main evented over everything else with a championship. Yeah, that makes sense, WWE.

Obviously I understand why it did, but making it happen at that PPV was hilarious.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Could you post the dates of those Bryan/Orton matches please? For some reason they aren't available in my country. I thought this was the internet. 

As for Night of Champions, I don't much see the point of it anymore either. A number of PPVs have had each title defended over the past couple of years. They even had all the titles on the line at TLC in 2011 just a couple of months later.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

My Eddie watching has been slacking these past few days so i might pop in one of the disc's from the Viva DVD before bed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Orton I ~ 6/17

Danielson vs Orton II ~ 6/21

Danielson vs Orton III & IV ~ 6/24

Smackdown match is the only one I cared for. Others were blah. First was bad. Don't know why they count the "third" as a match. It went like one minute. Overrated WWE stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Twisted14 said:


> Could you post the dates of those Bryan/Orton matches please? For some reason they aren't available in my country. I thought this was the internet.


I have the same problem but I just use a proxy to bypass the stupid restrictions.

These uploads are useful because the full thing is available and no commercial breaks.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brye said:


> I need to buy the damn IYH DVD but now the War Games DVD is calling my name since I've only seen two of them.
> 
> And I have a gripe with WWE. If I'm ordering the PPV, I should be able to see the pre-show match on my television. They literally just show hype videos that they will end up showing again during the matches. I happen to want to see Usos/Shield live with my friends.


Buy them both. They're both great. I love the IYH blu ray. 

Totally agree about that!!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gimmick PPVs I enjoy and why:

Elimination Chamber (it's a nice stop between the Rumble and Mania and in most cases looks like a good card on paper. Some may say it's a B show, but I'd disagree with them.)
Extreme Rules (always awesome to see rematches from Mania in most cases but in a gimmick match form. Majority of the time this ppv delivers greatly... but not this year. )
Money in the Bank (pretty self explanatory)

Gimmick PPVs that can FUCK OFF and why:

Night of Champions (this one isn't necessarily that bad, it's just dumb because all the belts are defended on like every other ppv)
Hell in a Cell (You're RUINING THE MATCH TYPE, Cm Punk vs. Ryback inside hell in a cell... why!?)
TLC (why the hell would I want the same type of match in like 4 different forms? TLC/Ladder matches used to be a hell of a lot more important)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea the orton/dbryan smackdown one was awsome the rest can fuck off, just watched the 6 man tlc from 2012 its still lots of fun


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Getting super excited for the next two days. MITB & RAW should be the stuff of greatness. Hopefully at least.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't mind TLC as a PPV but Noc and HiaC as PPVs are just stupid. How about we call the HiaC PPV Halloween Havoc? I'm not one of those we only need 4 PPVs a year people but if we had like 8 a year that would be much better. One fans opinion.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So who's gonna be Kane's replacement in Money in the Bank? Undertaker? Big Show? Brock Lesnar?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show could work. I'd dig that.

Oh, and I'd go out and dub Elimination Chamber a B-PPV now. It's so fleeting to have that former huge match stuck in-between WM. Kills any long term booking when you think about it. If someone actually does win to become a new champ in the Chamber, their reign will have only began from that show into WM. Considering that's a longshot, the champ retaining in the matches these days is almost a given. Which kills the majority of drama behind it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

_EDIT: Added ratings_

*ATF's Top 80 SummerSlam Matches*

_Couldn't do 100 since I wanted only for *** and above matches to be in. Based on the KOK formula :cool2_

Honorable Mentions:
*Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler, 1993

Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano, 1995

The Undertaker vs. The A-Train, 2003

Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, 2007

CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, 2012*


*Part 1 (80-61):

(***)
80 - The Un-Americans vs. BookDust, 2002









79 - JeriShow vs. Cryme Tyme, 2009









78 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1990









77 - Bam Bam Bigelow & The Headshrinkers vs. Tatanka & The Smoking Gunns, 1993









76 - Rey Mysterio, John Morrison & Kofi Kingston vs. Alberto Del Rio, The Miz & R-Truth, 2011









75 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, 2000









74 - D-Generation X vs. The McMahons, 2006









73 - The Rockers vs. Power & Glory, 1990









72 - The Hart Foundation vs. Demolition, 1990









71 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Money Inc., 1992









70 - Kane & X-Pac vs. The Undertaker & The Big Show, 1999









69 - X-Pac vs. Tajiri, 2001









68 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, 2003









67 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, 2005









66 - CM Punk vs. JBL, 2008









65 - The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio, 2012









(***1/4)
64 - The Undertaker vs. Test, 2002









63 - Barry Horowitz vs. Skip, 1995









62 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mick Foley, 1999









61 - The Rockers & Tito Santana vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus & Rick Martel, 1989







*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Un-Americans vs Goldust & Booker is kind of easily a top ten pick for me. Bordering on top five, if I'm really thinking about it.

-------------

Legit watched Chuck Palumbo & Michelle McCool vs Kenny Dykstra & Victoria from 1/4/08 Smackdown and liked it more than Jericho vs Michaels from GAB. Only proves my point about how a lot of long matches pumped out aren't always better. Especially when a lot of the match is a bunch of random crap that has no point at all. Of course the same show had a nice Undertaker vs Mark Henry gem on it too, but the mixed tag drives the factor home better. Ha. Both >

:lmao @ the opening segment on this 1/11/08 Smackdown. Vickie & Mysterio arguing about Eddie & her love life. Ugh. This '08 Smackdown set is already worth it just for some gems & wrestlecrap. Omg Mysterio vs Chavo match on this as the main event? YES. They always have good stuff vs each other.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some WCW matches seen recently:

Juventud Guerrera/Jericho- SuperBrawl1998 ***1/2
DDP/Benoit- SuperBrawl1998 ****
Raven/Perry Saturn- Bash at the Beach 1998- **3/4

Oh and the matches from SD

Bryan/Christian- ***1/4
Axel/Jericho- **3/4
Orton/Sheamus- **


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Love all those WCW matches. Total workhorses within the company, no doubt. Raven vs Perry Saturn from Fall Brawl '98 was a hell of a match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Got to check that match, always liked Saturn work.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Me too. He could be my pick for most underrated WCW cat in the Monday Night War era despite his popularity. Then again there is Ernest Miller in '97 & early '98 who's scary good at what he was pumping out. We only remember his shit work, yet all hidden while he was a straightforward face was a slew of good matches on TV & one from PPV.

This is a fun list to run down.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> *Un-Americans vs Goldust & Booker is kind of easily a top ten pick for me. Bordering on top five, if I'm really thinking about it.*
> 
> -------------
> 
> ...


SummerSlam all-time? Really?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember Barry Horowitz v. Skip being fucking awesome and that was back before I realised Barry Horowitz was really good.

-----

Watched Cesaro/Ziggler from Main Event. The beginning was kind of annoying in a 'Ziggler Match' way. I've complained before and before and before and BEFORE that he goes too back-and-forth in his matches and they feel structurally weird; I got that from the opening parts here. Nothing really felt like a heel or face hope spot or comeback and Dolph was popping out moves when he hadn't even really been worked on. THEN they hit the REAL worked-on period and Dolph gets top sell his ass off for a long period of time which he is effectively good at. He's a good, good, seller, it just feels like sometimes he doesn't want to sell and the frustrating back-and-forth starts happening. Like I said, though, that was the beginning parts - the meat of the match all good. They delivered in the 'gimme an upperfuckingcut' area. Cesaro is out of this fucking world right now. He's the perfect heel base for any babyface, from a great wrestler like Sheamus to a turd like Mistico, no matter who/what/why/whatthefuck he'll stay on top, let the face get their bursts of offence and then usually cut them off in ridiculous and outstanding ways. Tons of cool spots match after match, his timing on stuff like Mistico's high spots are perfect and he'll even get great two minute matches (like the one with Regal....two minutes for Cesaro/Regal? You are fucking cruel, WWE). Cesaro's really filling the hole in my heart that 2010/2011 Drew McIntyre left.

-----

So MITB is tomorrow? I guess it's 'tonight' for most, but I don't live near most so SHUTTY. Anyway looked at the card on wikipedia because I have no idea what the full card looks like because I don't consistently watch WWE TV and only really turn it on when I know Cesaro's wrestling.

Cena/Henry - Naturally I'm excited about this because I'm probably literally the biggest Mark Henry on this entire board of thousands of members (I am being genuine when I say that.....does anyone like Henry more than I do?), but on the other hand I'm kind of nervous. I haven't seen Henry look like MARK MOTHERFCUKIN HENRY since around elimination chamber, and even if Cena's bread and butter is monsters I don't trust his consistency. I'm being unnecessarily pessimistic about this so I will hopefully become 'pleasantly surprised' or something, but I've let my hopes up to be disappointed too many times, so I can't go in with the 'this'll be ONE BILLION STARS' attitude. No matter what, though, it's a hell of a rub for my dawg Mark.

Miz/Axel - This'll be ONE BILLION STARS. Well at least it's better than adding Barrett in with it. Still, this will be the match where I leave the room to eat or piss or jack off or whatever.

Ziggler/Del Rio - Still haven't sen Payback so I'll probably be less excited for this than most. Though I don't see why it can't be good if Ziggler doesn't do that back-and-forth stuff I ranted about. Hopefully Del Rio tries to re-concuss him. Or at least work the arm so Zigg as something to constantly sell. Is AJ still with Ziggs? She's the heel and he's the face so it feels like it shouldn't work. I do really want to see Del Rio kick AJ's belt again, though. I saw a GIF of that and wanted to see Payback immediately. But I didn't and instead played A Link to the Past. Those bees are amazing.

ALL STAR LADDER MATCH - Lame name. All babyfaces is a dumb idea. While watching Main Event for Cesaro I saw Raw rebounds or whatever and you have Bryan attacking Punk and shit and Orton's facing everyone and Bryan and Kane are having differences and fuck off. This whole 'every man for himself' is so overplayed when you have that many possible turns and bullshit. They act like there's some sort of dysfunction when people like Bryan and Punk weren;t teammates or anything to begin with. We get it, they're in the same match, you don't have to create this 'minifeud' that will last only one night or whatever. FFS just shove a heel or two in there. 

WHC LADDER MATCH - Too many heels. Cesaro and Swagger will.......both win? Rhodes and Sandow will.......both win? Why is Wade Barrett in this? Why is fucking Fandango in this? FFS just shove a face or two in there.

Jericho/Ryback - How long has it been since Jericho wrestled a 'monster'? Kinda curious based on that b/c I like when he looks like the scrappy guy fighting from underneath. Ryback will probably puss out of the match because of a crooked eyelash or something. I dunno what WWE are doing with him and tbf I don't think give a poot.

Divas - Kaitlyn has been made to looks even more of a big pussbag than Ryback has. What are you crying for? 'Oh no she tricked me or something now I have to sob on the floor uncontrollably'. This isn't really a likable babyface to me.



HayleySabin said:


> Me too. *He could be my pick for most underrated WCW cat* in the Monday Night War era despite his popularity. *Then again there is Ernest Miller* in '97 & early '98 who's scary good at what he was pumping out. We only remember his shit work, yet all hidden while he was a straightforward face was a slew of good matches on TV & one from PPV.


ba dum TSCH

Mike Enos would have to be my favourite WCW guy no one remembers. It's also entirely possible I am not remembering somebody myself.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can you believe that wasn't even planned? My word play is mad grand.

Wrath & Glacier are high picks for me too. People remember Glacier for sure. They don't want to remember he's actually had good matches. Ironically enough, NOT against Wrath. Those two had zero chemistry unless in tags. Isn't it kind of awesome how we can't put El Dandy here now? It seems most picked up on him. And most of the luchadores, when you think about it.

Really racking my brain atm of anymore "lost" WCW guys. Most should remember Barbarian, but I'm a fan so fuck it. He's in too. Did Louie Spicolli get a chance to do anything in WCW? Probably not. Death came around his push in nWo as it is. It'll let the names fly into my head without trying. Mike Enos didn't even pop in when I took the brief thought on the topic till you mentioned him. Oi vey.

@ATF: Absolutely. That tag team match is stellar. Get giddy whenever I watch it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I certainly thought it was pretty good for what it was, they did nice with the whole Un-Americans angle, and Christian was a must, but I didn't think much else of it. I didn't even enjoy Goldust as much as usual.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tag team formula in it is outstanding. Work by Christian & Storm in creating heat, great tactics, and workover on Goldust - who was fantastic in his role - all leading up to the Booker hot tag that unleashed hell on everyone while the crowd went nuts. Booker was the man in 2002 - 2003 WWE. All of this greatness put in a sub-ten minute format. That's how wrestling needs to be most of the time. I'm asking for too much. It takes a special kind of talent to be that fantastic. This is probably Lance Storm's best match. I know I'd take this over so many "great" matches WWE has ever pumped out. Big time fallacy with main event matches being >. It was like that on the same event. Trips vs Michaels is dull meanwhile this stole the show. _(with some others being capable themselves.)_

-------------

Yay @ Batista vs MVP I being good. I remember their No Holds Barred match being really good so the chemistry apparently wasn't a fluke. For how awful Porter is & how inconsistent Batista was, this is a fun surprise. Week before Porter had a stinker with Finlay. Finlay and stinker never happens. Finlay made matches vs Khali good. Porter couldn't even work with the man. This whole thing is a paradox of confusion. Must be in a parallel universe.

Undertaker just killed Striker in a fun squash. Well, it was a Handicap match but still. Segments have been awful yet the matches have been clicking this night. I'll take it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed it was simple awesomeness, but I'd say that sometimes a bit of complexity doesn't hurt at all. JeriShow/Cryme Tyme is a good example - it's a little less simplistic, since it involved a lot more character work, but just about better. The role of unstoppable underdogs that JTG and Gaspard played was a shallow proof of how underrated they were. Whereas JeriShow were outstanding as the taunting, sneaky and always with one more trick veteran heels. Liked it just a nail better than UnAmericans/BookDust.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Some pretty surprising choices on that list, ATF. Not as big a fan of Hogan/Michaels as I. Wouldn't have either Miz/Mysterio & Legion/Money Inc. on my list at all.  Gonna show ratings?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JeriShow vs Cryme Tyme is fine. I liked the heels in it. Think Shad looked pretty good in it. Always kind of liked him. JTG was bleh. Always has been and always will be. It's solid but nothing I'd put next to the '02 tag in terms of contention. '09 match being high on the list sounds about right. '02, as I said, would be way way towards the nitty gritty of my favorites.

Miz vs Mysterio does suck. I wouldn't have put that on my list either.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I liked it, if just for Miz spawning a Slingshot Ligerbomb. Yes, my standards for Miz matches are that low  I dug the overall feeling of the thing.

Everything up to Miz/Mysterio I gave ***. The rest was ***1/4. I'll post Part 2 later.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match showed the negatives of both men. Mysterio in his current state showing wear and tare/limitations - although I thought the rest of his 2012 was actually a LOT better than that match - & Miz with how dull he can by with being the lead of a match. It didn't click that night. 

Their match from July of 2011 on the other hand; that's a keeper.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Finally got around to watching Ziggler/Cesaro from Main Event - ****3/4* Great match, Ziggler's selling combined with Cesaro's strength make these two a perfect fit for each other, some great counters in this one too. Hopefully we'll see more of these two together in the near future.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES (V):*

*40. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) - Smackdown, 30 August 2011*











*39. Randy Orton vs John Cena - SummerSlam 2007*











*38. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry - Night of Champions 2011*











*37. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown, 30 December 2005*











*36. Randy Orton vs Sheamus (Hell in a Cell) - Hell in a Cell 2010*











*35. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) - Breaking Point 2009*











*34. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield - Raw, 3 June 2013*











*33. Randy Orton vs Edge vs Chris Jericho - Raw, 19 July 2010*











*32. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) - Raw, 24 June 2013*











*31. Randy Orton vs Edge - Raw, 13 December 2004*











*30. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) - Raw, 22 June 2009*











*29. The Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble 2009*











*28. Randy Orton vs Edge - Vengeance 2004*











*27. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H - Wrestlemania XXIV*











*26. Randy Orton vs Undertaker - Smackdown, 16 September 2005*










*Click Here to See 100-86*
*Click Here to See 85-71
Click Here to See 70-56
Click Here to See 55-41*​


Spoiler: list



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
49. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
46. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
44. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012 
43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
40. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
39. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
38. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
37. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
36. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
35. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
34. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
33. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
32. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
31. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
30. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
29. The Royal Rumble Match – Royal Rumble 2009
28. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
27. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
26. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Top 80 SummerSlam Matches*

Previous entry here

*Part 2 (60-41)*

*(***1/4)
**60 - Kane vs. Rey Mysterio, 2010









59 - Kane vs. Daniel Bryan, 2012









58 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, 1998









57 - Diesel vs. Razor Ramon, 1994









56 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, 1988









55 - Sheamus vs. Randy Orton, 2010









54 - The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, 1993









53 - D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, 1998









52 - Lance Storm vs. Edge, 2001









51 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, 2004









50 - X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett, 1998









(***1/2)
49 - Booker T vs. The Rock, 2001









48 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2002









47 - Hakushi vs. The 123-Kid, 1995









46 - The Rock vs. Triple H, 1998









45 - Triple H vs. Eugene, 2004









44 - Chris Jericho vs. Rhyno, 2001









43 - Sheamus vs. Mark Henry, 2011









42 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1989









(***3/4)
41 - Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2005







*



Spoiler: List so far



*Honorable Mentions*
Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler, 1993
Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano, 1995
The Undertaker vs. The A-Train, 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, 2007
CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, 2012

*(***)*
80 - The Un-Americans vs. BookDust, 2002
79 - JeriShow vs. Cryme Tyme, 2009
78 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1990
77 - Bam Bam Bigelow & The Headshrinkers vs. Tatanka & The Smoking Gunns, 1993
76 - Rey Mysterio, John Morrison & Kofi Kingston vs. Alberto Del Rio, The Miz & R-Truth, 2011
75 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, 2000
74 - D-Generation X vs. The McMahons, 2006
73 - The Rockers vs. Power & Glory, 1990
72 - The Hart Foundation vs. Demolition, 1990
71 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Money Inc., 1992
70 - Kane & X-Pac vs. The Undertaker & The Big Show, 1999
69 - X-Pac vs. Tajiri, 2001
68 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, 2003
67 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, 2005
66 - CM Punk vs. JBL, 2008
65 - The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio, 2012
*(***1/4)*
64 - The Undertaker vs. Test, 2002
63 - Barry Horowitz vs. Skip, 1995
62 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mick Foley, 1999
61 - The Rockers & Tito Santana vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus & Rick Martel, 1989
60 - Kane vs. Rey Mysterio, 2010
59 - Kane vs. Daniel Bryan, 2012
58 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, 1998
57 - Diesel vs. Razor Ramon, 1994
56 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, 1988
55 - Sheamus vs. Randy Orton, 2010
54 - The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, 1993
53 - D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, 1998
52 - Lance Storm vs. Edge, 2001
51 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, 2004
50 - X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett, 1998
*(***1/2)
*49 - Booker T vs. The Rock, 2001
48 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2002
47 - Hakushi vs. The 123-Kid, 1995
46 - The Rock vs. Triple H, 1998
45 - Triple H vs. Eugene, 2004
44 - Chris Jericho vs. Rhyno, 2001
43 - Sheamus vs. Mark Henry, 2011
42 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1989
*(***3/4)
*41 - Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2005


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF & Choke2Death has some good lists going on.

Cheers.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Speaking of old WCW guys lets get some love for Alex Wright.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Anyone got links to Ziggler/Cesaro from Main Event and Bryan/Christian from Smackdown? 

Two matches I've been meaning to watch but haven't yet - and I have some time to kill before MITB so I thought I would check them out.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...ent-07-10-13_sport?search_algo=2#.UeMfd42sh8E

That's the Ziggler/Cesaro match, I haven't watched the Bryan/Christian one yet.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Been watching some Dolph Ziggler 2009- SummerSlam 2012 matches. vs Rey Mysterio at SummerSlam 2009 is awesome but I got the feeling it was being directed from someone in the back via the ref too much as you see Jack Doan talking to each wrestler a lot and then he makes some hand gestures towards the back. vs. Daniel Bryan Bragging Rights 2010 was excellent and possibly his best? (I don't know). vs Jericho SS 2012 last year was very good. The Royal Rumble matches with Punk and Edge were only ok. I really like this guy though. Some of his bumping reminds me of Curt Henning a bit, like he has springs in his boots! Havn't watched Payback vs Del Rio yet...

Random opinion: Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk Money in the Bank 2012 is monkey shit considering the excellent match they put on at Over the Limit. To me the No DQ stip made no sense and was just thrown in for the hell of it (probably to stop them wrestling a wrestling match like they had done at OTl. I mean, in kayfabe if these two guys can wrestle and the last one on one was a close call then why would they need shitty weapons? And don't get me started on the AJ shite. This match really left a sour taste. WWE ruins another CM Punk summer with a lame angle and shitty triple threat matches. Amazing really. 

Punk v Kane v Bryan also stunk imo*. 


*(I'm being a bit hyberbolic of course but these PPV matches pissed me off cause I wanted to see Over the Limit part 2. and it's even worse that the only PPVs Punk wrestled in the main events of were with Cena or Rock)


----------



## KYSeahawks (Nov 5, 2007)

Just got Extreme Rules 2012 and TLC 2010 from an Ebay order. 

I must say the one match that stood out to me was Morrison vs Sheamus in a ladder match. Wow the it was so different and just so dang good. Morrison brought a couple of high spots until the awesome and brutal knee work. I am not the greatest and breaking down matches but can see why that match got the love it did. Also enjoyed the Del Rio vs Mysterio vs. Kane vs Edge TLC Match and thought it was really underrated and would have been a great way to finish the night instead of Barrett vs Cena.

Still loved Lesnar vs Cena because it was so brutal and different. Sheamus vs Bryan was still pretty awesome and Bryan's work in it was top notch. I wonder how good of a match they could've had at Mania if they didn't do the dumb 18 seconds crap. Punk vs Jericho was just something I liked but didn't love but I can't put my finger on it.

I won Survivor Series 09 and it looks like a fun show w/ the 2 triple threat title matches, team miz vs. team morrison, team orton vs team kofi, and mysterio vs batista. But lost out on Extreme Rules 2011 which sucked because I really wanted to see the Triple Threat Cage Match for the WWE Title along with Christian vs Del Rio, Orton vs Punk and Mysterio vs Rhodes. Are their any real underrated ppvs from the past couple of years that I should look into buying.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@KYSeahawks: Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber, SummerSlam, Vengeance, Survivor Series and TLC all from 2011 were all good to great shows.

Also check out Bragging Rights 09 and MITB 10.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just finished watching Ziggler/Cesaro from Main Event. 

Very good match, I thought it was structured well from them feeling out each other in the start to Cesaro quickly gaining control with his power and maintaining in control for the majority of the match with his impressive moves such as the gutwrench suplex and wearing Ziggler down with submissions such as the abdominal stretch. Ziggler as always was doing a very good selling job and both men really brought the best out of each other in this one. The crowd being behind Ziggler was good and it's a sign that his face character is getting there, and Ziggler's timed comebacks were good and his finisher was sort of out of nowhere and that should of got the pin until Swagger stopped it.. :side:. My only problem with the match was the finish, I feel Ziggler should of gone over Cesaro clean here as he's in a World Title match at MITB and needs to look as credible as he can. Other than that, very good match and these two definitely clicked with this one. ****3/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Awesome stuff in the Orton list. LOVE the high inclusions of #s 40, 36, 34, 30, and 26 (all *** 3/4 - **** for me), but damn I do not like that Mania 24 3-way being that high. Wouldn't even make my list tbh (** 1/2), unless I just threw it in for the big surprise win from Orton. Also don't think the Henry match is _that _special, but still good (***).



KidCharlamagne said:


> Speaking of old WCW guys lets get some love for Alex Wright.


:hb

GAB '95 vs. Brian Pillman is totally excellent. Check it out folks.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Totally unrelated to his ring work but I will alway love Alex Wright for this.










The stuff of legends.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That tag match was somehow really good. Even the Usos were a net positive.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Okay, what the fuck. These four just stole the show in the fucking pre-show.

*Money in the Bank 2013 - Kick Off
*The Usos vs. The Shield - ***1/2


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

That was really, really good. Should have been on the main card but doesn't really matter.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Usos - ***1/2. Afuckingmazing.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2 from me 2, that Reigns Powebomb and Rollins superplex


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

That match actually hyped me up for this show more than three weeks of buildup could. FUCK that was good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The first half was absolutely nothing to see, but yeah, those fuckers tore the house down in the last several minutes. That big splash nearfall was nuts! Most exciting preshow match WWE will have all year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I am so glad I caught the pre-show because that was fun as shit. Am I the only one that has always liked the Usos? Maybe they aren't blow-away great, but in a time where we are struggling for tag teams they're a nice feel-good babyface couple. Uso VIII took a sick as hell apron bump on the clothesline. The spot with Uso 2.0 crawling thorough Reings' legs and then Rollins knocking UsoMan off of the apron was an awesome, awesome FIP moment. Reigns is so fun to watch. The flying punch, THAT CLOTHESLINE, and he's a good seller. I love how much of a bump freak Rollins is, too, especially on barricade spots. GREAT heat near the end and I thought the Usos may actually win it. I'm 100% serious when I say this match would have been match of the night at Extreme Rules.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Awesome stuff in the Orton list. LOVE the high inclusions of #s 40, 36, 34, 30, and 26 (all *** 3/4 - **** for me), but damn I do not like that Mania 24 3-way being that high. Wouldn't even make my list tbh (** 1/2), unless I just threw it in for the big surprise win from Orton. Also don't think the Henry match is _that _special, but still good (***).


I love that triple threat. It accomplished everything a three way match should and while it may not match Benoit/HH/HBK or Rock/Angle/Taker in quality, it's easily up there as one of the best TTs ever imo. Plus the right man winning helps it and it earns bonus points for being Orton's biggest Wrestlemania moment in his career. You wanna see a triple threat that wasn't good, look at the three participants in a rematch from Night of Champions 09. It was a contender for the list but I rewatched it and it was so bad in comparison and certainly not worthy of appearing in the list. About as generic a triple threat can get.

The classic will start coming in in the next batch!  (might put it on hold instead of the daily entries since MITB discussion will take over the thread)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You're not alone, Mr. Yeah. I don't think The Usos are some awesome (or even great) tag team, but the division is in serious need of babyfaces, and a team like the Usos that were not just randomly put together and actually have a reason to stay a team fills that serious need. They also at least try to get the crowd into their matches, even if they really only have one way of doing so. They have some cool offense too, but the stuff prior to the finish stretch of their matches can get pretty boring.

Somebody convince me that The Barbarian was not trash. Never liked the guy, but worth a shot to check him out again.

*EDIT: *What the hell did we just watch? That was up there with Morrison/Sheamus in terms of most unique ladder matches of all time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WHC MITB - ****

My fucking God. Sandow :mark:


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Great match. Really good spots, great crowd. Loved it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

God damn what a fun match! Incredibly unique, tag team warfare, and CODY RHODES! Awesome.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Great booking in that WHC Ladder match. The way they handled Rhodes in that match was fantastic.

I'll give it ***1/4

*Money in the Bank 2013*
_The Usos vs. The Shield_ - ***1/2
_WHC Money in the Bank Ladder Match_ - ***1/4

Class so far.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

***3/4 for the WHC Money in the Bank Ladder Match

Very fun opener. The finishing stretch was very fun.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**** for the WHC Ladder Match, it was a spotfest,awesome


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cody shaves the stache, becomes a huge babyface, and goes for revenge on his former partner while getting a massive push that will FINALLY get him over the hump as an uppercard attraction. While on the other hand, Sandow gets to continue to shine as one of the top heels in the company with his despicable act against his partner and friend. I love it!

PLUS, how bout a 3 way tag title match at Summerslam!?

Shield vs. Usos vs. Real Americans anyone?


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Rhodes was a beast in that match, **** for the match. Also I am feeling Shield/Real Americans/Usos at Summerslam


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Boring match with Miz/Axel tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Axel/Miz - **1/2. Could've been worse.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WHC MITB – Too much ‘you go out, I go in’ bullshit, but this was fun. I was so horrified Barrett was winning, but even with my dislike for him he had his cool spots. I thought the duelling Rhodes/Sandow v. Cesaro/Swagger spots could have been great and even if they only teased it a bit, the ladder chucking was super. Cesaro’s Swagger-helped uppercut was my favourite part. Goddamn that is just the best move in the WWE. Ambrose skinning the cat to try to win was cool. I can’t say I saw the Shield/Usos run-in coming and I’m not sure why I didn’t. I’ve said so many times I thought an all-heel match was stupid and that they should add a babyface, and in some ways they did. Hopefully Cody gets a chance to go actual face because he hasn’t done that years and I am tired of him as a heel. Sandow being the sneaky shitbag should be good, and if they write it properly (which they won’t), this could be a fun feud.

Well that Vickie tribute was……lovely.

Miz/Axel – Yeah, kick Heyman out of Philly. That’ll get the crowd behind the Miz. What a fucking idiotic move. Trip and Steph just wrote that in to fuck Paul over or something. Crowd chanting ‘pre-show’ was appropriate. Hennig’s a pretty good seller and all but I just cannot give a shit about anything he does. What did he end the match with? Dumb-looking move. Please, WWE; Drew McIntyre is right there.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Curtis Axel vs The Miz - **1/4

Average match. The near fall with the perfect-plex was nicely done. The figure four struggle was also good. The ending was weak.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Can't give more than ** for Axel/Miz, it was boring, especially coming after that great Ladder Match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok I just got home how's has it been guys what's matches happened ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cody shaves the stache, becomes a huge babyface, and goes for revenge on his former partner while getting a massive push that will FINALLY get him over the hump as an uppercard attraction. While on the other hand, Sandow gets to continue to shine as one of the top heels in the company with his despicable act against his partner and friend. I love it!


Sounds great. Cody was really over with the crowd tonight. Even I was rooting for him by the end.

Now if Orton and Henry win their matches, tonight will be awesome!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SD MITB- :sandow :sandow :sandow :sandow :sandow


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AJ/Kaitlyn - ***. Psychology in a 2013 Divas match? Wow. Not sure if better than PB or not.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Ok Divas match. Better than the last match though thats for sure. Last two matches a bit boring though. Time to pick the pace back up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What the fuck has happened !!!! Corey, yeah , Cody somebody tell me


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Ok I just got home how's has it been guys what's matches happened ?


World Title MITB was awesome (bloody Cody), Axel/Mix was meh, AJ/Kaitlyn was fairly solid & watchable. 



Choke2Death said:


> Sounds great. Cody was really over with the crowd tonight. Even I was rooting for him by the end.
> 
> Now if Orton and Henry win their matches, tonight will be awesome!


Same here, looks like they made a babyface in a matter of minutes. Hell of a performance from the Codester. I'd actually be pretty happy if Orton won since the inner mark in me would crawl out. It did in the Elimination Chamber match eearlier this year too. 



The Sandrone said:


> SD MITB- :sandow :sandow :sandow :sandow :sandow


Surprise surprise!


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

AJ vs. Kaitlyn - **1/2

Alright match. Not as good as their Payback match. AJ's work on Kaitlyn's elbow was decent.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> What the fuck has happened !!!! Corey, yeah , Cody somebody tell me


Cody had taken out everyone and was a bloody mess until Sandow pushed him off the ladder and stole the briefcase. Shield & Usos all made appearances, Cesaro was uber impressive as usual. Axel retained, AJ retained.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**3/4 for AJ/Kaitlyn, decent match, great divas match. That Black Widow is amazing when is done by AJ


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jericho/Ryback - ***. Actually enjoyable, good psychology and character work. Picked up nicely by the end, though finish was meh.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

And again, another so-so one. It dragged on a bit too long. These recent matches are killing the crowd though.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Ryback vs. Jericho - **

Below average match


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Divas – Kaitlyn still seems like a massive wuss to me. AJ comes out with a gigantic black bodybuilder, Kaitlyn comes out w/ Layla and it seems like Kaitlyn is the more scared of the two. Kaitlyn is willing to bump and AJ works the arm but IDK I didn’t give a shit.

Jericho/Ryback – This just wouldn’t fucking end. Felt like thirty minutes. The beginning had Jericho trying to kind of chop Ryback down which was good, but then later he tries to chop down again. Which, in itself, would be fine, but I have a hard time believing you wouldn’t chop him down when you’ve already performed a fucking northern lights suplex on him. Nice spot or two like Jericho falling between the two announce tables, but Jericho just isn’t really that good any more. I’ve never liked Ryback. I’ll make sure to never watch this again.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**1/2 for Jericho/Ryback, I only liked Ryback's Powerbomb here and that Y2J crossbody


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ADR/Ziggler - ***3/4. Ending aside, great match.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Finally a good match again after sitting through 3 consecutive so-so matches. Both for my enjoyment and to get the fans up and running again. These next two matches are going to rock though.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

ADR vs. Ziggler - ****

Another great match between these two. I thought the match ended a bit too abruptly.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hooooly shit, the ladder match is main eventing. Something big time is going down, guys.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I know somebody is going to complain about the AJ interference, but it was necessary in order to move on the feud and further transition Ziggler into a face. It could have gone much worse, and the writers were put in a very tough spot with booking their separation. Can't wait for their blowoff at Summerslam (Ladder match maybe?). This has been a simple, but very well-done feud.

****3/4* for that match. Great PPV so far.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk now main eventing RAWs and PPVs over WWE Champion, John Cena.

:mark:

Summerslam next month too. Ah, justice.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Henry's ovation gave me goosebumps. GIVE THIS MAN THE BELT!!! God this could be so good. Cena to get booed.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Special attractions always main event over Cena lol. Unless of course hes in a match with them.

At least thats what it seems like.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Del Rio/Ziggler – Thought this got real fucking good once Del Rio first kicked the head. Ziggler took a hell of a barricade bump (like he typically does) after that and Del Rio stayed on top really well. Del Rio’s facials ruled. There was one where the crowd chants “Ziggler” and he looks all ‘Of course, OH of course. This shit again. Yeah keep it coming’. Splitting Zigg and AJ up is the right move, but that finish was fucking crap.

Cena isn’t main eventing!????? Of course. He main events fucking EVERYTHING v. EVERYONE, without a title. Faces Henry for the title, and then doesn’t. It’s like Vince does this stuff just for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Henry - ***1/2. Great match, but I'm (predictably) heartbroken.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GOD DAMN IT, why did they have Henry tap!? That pissed me off but other than that, AWESOME match. I was marking out like a motherfucker att hose false finishes.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Good match. I don't know about Mark Henry tapping out being the right decision but whatever.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Cena/Henry - FUCK THIS COMPANY

No but really that was just underwhelming all around.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

John Cena vs. Mark Henry - ****1/4

Henry looked great here. He did a good job with his offense here. Cena's comebacks were timed really well. Cena making Henry tap out was a bit contrived. I would rather have Cena pin Henry with the AA.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cena/Henry- ****1/4, awesome match, one of the best Henry matches that I can remember recently. The crowd was great here too


----------



## Brock L (Jun 8, 2012)

when is the last time cena lost a match? its as bad as 2005


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Smith_Jensen said:


> John Cena vs. Mark Henry - ****1/4
> 
> Henry looked great here. He did a good job with his offense here. Cena's comebacks were timed really well. Cena making Henry tap out was a bit contrived. I would rather have Cena pin Henry with the AA.


My thoughts exactly.

The match was great with everything flowing together but I preferred Cena pinning Henry than it ending in submission. Still a great match between the two.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Great WWE match indeed.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cena/Henry –Henry looked like a completely awesome killer even from the first move. The knee to the gut, the first headbutt, and front suplex on the steps, and his through-the-ropes thing looked rougher than normal because his leg got caught. Cena not being able to lift Henry was great, but after he COULD lift him, I wish they didn’t go with the tap out finish. The tornado DDT reversal was a bad idea. It’s like they saw Eddie Guerrero do it to the Big Show and think it’s a good idea to plug into every big v. not as big match. Cena was good on the underneath despite me never likinbg his comebacks that much. The nearfalls were mostly really well done and I totally bought Henry getting desperate and turning to the turnbuckle and low blow. Henry looked as good as I wanted him to so I hope they don’t shove him down the card again. This delivered.


Kane’s not in MITB, so, well, I guess the TBD guy could be the reason for the main event? Are they even replacing Kane? I thought they were going with MITB as main event because Cena might lose (though I was sure he wasn’t going to), but I just have no idea. Is it b/c of RVD? Are they actually going to do something BIG big with Dragon? IDK what to think.


Holy fuck does RVD ever age?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The pops for Van Dam and Punk were epic.

Sweet moment for Bryan's "Yes" chants during his entrance as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why is this match going so terribly slow?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Sheamus taking an unexpected amount of bumps in this match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

What the fuck is going on. :lol


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Orton lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao

That was fucking terrible. Orton has the WORST celebration of any MITB winner as he's absolutely expressionless. Not only that but there was ZERO heat after that pile of predictable garbage with Heyman & Punk. Comfortably say the worst MITB ladder match of all time. Not even C2D can like that, right!?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Raw MITB - ***. Underwhelming.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Two straight really good PPVs in a row from the 'E. 

Shield/Usos ****1/2*
WHC MITB ******
Axel/Miz ***1/2*
Kaitlyn/AJ ***3/4*
Jericho/Ryback ***3/4*
Ziggler/ADR ****3/4 - *****
Henry/Cena *****-****1/4*
WWE MITB *****-****1/4*


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Underwhelming match. Loved what happened with Punk and Heyman. Time for the GOAT program to begin. :mark:

Expected the Orton win. Excited to see all the Bryan marks crying.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Underwhelming match. ***1/2


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Its funny how hyped this one was made out to be and SD's actually ended up kicking this one in the ass.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton won!

I CAN'T FUCKING BELIEVE IT! :mark:

Too much in mark out mode to rate it, tomorrow I'll have to rewatch it. AWESOME PPV just for the ending!!!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I'll give it ***

Holy shit at that ladder shot Punk took. Half his face was covered with blood.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Goddamn, so pissed I missed Shield/Usos but I was working out at the time. Hopefully, i could see it tomorrow somewhere.

I thought tonight's PPV was good. MITB is one of the more consistent PPVs. And two instances of blood on one show? Couldn't ask for more.

Speaking of blood, I believe I asked this question already but does anyone know if on the Extreme Rules 2012 DVD if Cena/Lesnar is censored? it would be so annoying to watch 80% if the match in black and white.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WWE MITB – All six guys being on ladders and Punk whooshing the briefcase away so nobody could grab it was great, as was Bryan’s flurry of offense. Orton taking time to randomly set up the ladder Heyman betrayed Punk with was odd. Thought Sheamus was the best guy in this. Big, good looking bumps, a great corner shoulder block and the PUNCH through the ladder. *SPOILER* - YES!!! BRYAN WON!!!!! YES! YES! YES! I AM IN COMPLETE FUCKING DENIAL BECAUSE *I CANNOT FUCKING BELIEVE THEY DID THAT TO ME. *WHAT. THE. FUCK. ARE. YOU. THINKING?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

So glad Orton won! Thought it was unlikely considering he was mostly jobbing to Bryan and Punk prior to the ppv. 

Its been two years since he last was champion but I hope they don't make him lose the briefcase to Bryan or something like that.


----------



## The Cult (Jul 21, 2012)

That SD Mitb completely blew the main event out of the water! Would probably say the RAW one was the worst ever, on the whole a good ppv though. Really enjoyed both title matches, Ryback/Jericho wasn't too bad and Axel/Miz was tolerable I suppose.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Goddamn, so pissed I missed Shield/Usos but I was working out at the time. Hopefully, i could see it tomorrow somewhere.
> 
> I thought tonight's PPV was good. MITB is one of the more consistent PPVs. And two instances of blood on one show? Couldn't ask for more.
> 
> Speaking of blood, I believe I asked this question already but does anyone know if on the Extreme Rules 2012 DVD if Cena/Lesnar is censored? it would be so annoying to watch 80% if the match in black and white.


No it's not censored but I'm pretty sure they cut out a portion or two when they were actually tending to Cena. All blood is shown though.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

My Money In The Bank 2013 review

World Championship MITB Ladder Match - ***3/4
Curtis Axel vs. The Miz - **1/4
AJ vs. Kaitlyn - **1/2
Ryback vs. Chris Jericho - **
Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler - ****
John Cena vs. Mark Henry - ****1/4
WWE Championship MITB Ladder Match - ***1/4

This was a great PPV for me. The WHC MITB Ladder Match was a very fun opener. ADR and Ziggler had another great match. The match of the night was Cena vs. Henry. That match is also a MOTYC for me. The WWE Championship MITB Ladder Match was good but Orton didn't need the win as he is already a big enough star. This was a worthy purchase for me.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Not a chance was that the worst MITB match of all time. Talk about over exaggeration. Last year's was miles worse.

The only thing that upsets me about an Orton win is that Orton is going to have another title reign. Ew.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WHC MITB ******
Miz/Axel***1/2*
Kaitlyn/AJ ***1/4*
Ziggler/ADR ******
Cena/Henry ****1/4*
WWE MITB ****3/4*

Really strong PPV, highly recommend. PPV of the Year thus far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Money in the Bank 2013

**Money in the Bank Ladder Match - Rising Stars
*Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Jack Swagger vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Fandango vs. Wade Barrett - *** 3/4

*Intercontinental Championship
*Curtis Axel (c) vs. The Miz - **

*Divas Championship
*AJ Lee (c) vs. Kaitlyn - **

Chris Jericho vs. Ryback - **

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - *** 1/2

*WWE Championship
*John Cena (c) vs. Mark Henry - *** 3/4

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match - All Stars
*Rob Van Dam vs. Christian vs. Sheamus vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan - ** 1/4


- GOD DAMN that opener was so much fun. I always go into these MITB ladder matches with these thoughts of "what new things can they possibly come up with?" and they seemingly always come up with something! Cody Rhodes stole the damn show. Muscle buster on the ladder, two cross rhodes, then he wipes out half the guys on the SD roster... only to be stabbed in the back by his partner. Damn that was crazy. Awesome match. Love the tag team warfare that was goin down with Shield, Usos, & the Real Americans. 3-way tag title match at Summerslam!? 

- Axel vs. Miz? Meh. Snoozefest. There was a a Perfect Plex and a Figure 4 and... yeah that's it. AJ/Kaitlyn had some decent psychology and was watchable but nothing special. Jericho/Ryback never gave me much to get into. Couple decent spots but the rest was meh. I'm using that word a lot. 

- I'm gonna rewatch Del Rio/Ziggler in the near future but I enjoyed it on first glance. Del Rio attacked the head, Ziggler played an excellent babyface who wouldn't give up, and then AJ ruined the match AGAIN (referring to MITB last year with Punk/Bryan). Once she gets out of the picture and these two finally settle it, it's gonna be damn good. This match had a lot of the same things that their Main Event match did, which isn't a bad thing at all.

- Cena/Henry (to no surprise) was really fucking good. Henry was an absolute monster and the slow methodical pacing was excellent. The story behind Henry just being too big and too strong for Cena to hit the AA was excellent and it came off even better when on the 2nd or 3rd attempt, John finally hit it, only for Henry to kick out. I was goin nuts at all the false finishes, especially after the low blow. Henry tapping kinda pissed me off to be honest, but it's a small quibble. Great stuff.

- The main event sucked, plain and simple. Idk how long it actually went but it felt like 45 minutes. Really really slow pacing and when it did pick up and the action got good it ended with something ridiculous. Sheamus took way too many dangerous bumps if you ask me and I hope his arm isn't seriously injured, while on the other hand Orton didn't do jack shit besides that sweet looking RKO on Rob. Axel interference was totally random, especially since it was on Bryan, but the Heyman turn was coming from a mile away, especially when Orton conveniently set that ladder up for no reason a couple minutes prior. RVD, Bryan, and Punk were INCREDIBLY over on so many levels and the crowd didn't care about anyone else. So what do they do? Give the briefcase to Orton while he's completely expressionless and stalking his way up the ladder like a fucking retard. Ugh. This wasn't fun to watch. Willing to bet money *HayleySabin *feels almost the exact same way about this.  ​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ok so good but odd ppv- I will go watch the tag and sd mitb right now, I say my reaction in a few

just some thoughts
-remember when people said "Oh randy orton days as wwe champ are over but maybe hw will win the whc again" :lmao :lmao

Cody and Yeah are prob destroying their rooms right now, be back later


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So apparently there were 3 guys bleeding in that match. Who else besides Punk?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ok so good but odd ppv- I will go watch the tag and sd mitb right now, I say my reaction in a few
> 
> just some thoughts
> -remember when people said "Oh randy orton days as wwe champ are over but maybe hw will win the whc again" :lmao :lmao
> ...


Hahaha. I was one of those guys saying that!



sharkboy22 said:


> So apparently there were 3 guys bleeding in that match. Who else besides Punk?


Van Dam was bleeding, not sure who else unless you/they are referring to Cody Rhodes in the first match.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Shield/Usos - ***1/4
WHC MITB - ***3/4
ADR/Ziggler ***1/2
Cena/Henry - ****
WWE MITB - ***

Pretty fun event that really dragged in the middle. WWE MITB was a bit of a letdown, sans some good work from Sheamus & Bryan. Didn't like Orton winning but what can you do? At least Sandow won the SD MITB. Sandow/Rhodes got interesting fast. I'm all for a Rhodes face run after tonight.

And out of nowhere, a wild Bryan/Axel feud appears.










Of fucking course.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I will probably rant over the next week about how annoying their decision was. I thought the ladder-yank RKO on RVD was really cool and probably the best 'special' RKO ever, but he was the guy in the match I wanted least to win it. I'd definitely rather even the returning RVD win it, who I'm not even a fan of. Hell, fuck RVD, I think I would prefer someone random as hell like Maven come back as Kane's replacement and win the MITB match over Orton. We'll probably get a shitty, over-acted, exaggerated, phony, hammy, pathetically portrayed heel viper world title run now with Orton failing at rolling his back in his head and making those laughable 'look at me I'm a psycho!' facial expressions. Hey, but look on the bright side! A more-talented-than-Orton-guy like CM Punk might get to feud with Curtis Axel!! FUCKHEADS.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

MITB:

*Shield/Usos* - Only caught the last part of this but it was pretty awesome, crowd was totally hyped up to. Will watch the whole thing tomorrow.

*WHC MITB * - Goddamn this was carnage, but in a great way. Such innovative spots, every man had their chance to shine and the ending made lots of sense and made Rhodes look like a star. Sandow winning is awesome too. A bit of a spotfest but what do you expect? ******

*Axel/Miz* - Meh, nothing to see here really. Just average. Can WWE please give these new guys a finisher that isn't a neckbreaker variation? **3/4*

*Kaitlyn/AJ* - Another good match between these two. Not as good as Payback IMO, but still solid. AJ's armwork on Kaitlyn was good, when was the last time we saw that in a divas match? Good ending, the Black Widow is a great move. ***1/4*

*Jericho/Ryback* - This was ok. Very average for the first half before I felt it stepped up nicely and was getting good. Unfortunately a poorly executed and abrupt ending hurt this a lot. ***1/4*

*Ziggler/ADR * - Another great match between these two. Ziggler was really on song tonight and was fantastic, Del Rio played his part too. A lot of this match was similar in a way to their Main Event match from a few months ago, but that's not a bad thing. The roles were reversed this time around but this was very exciting. The finish was annoying but it makes total sense with the way they're taking Ziggler's character. I was expecting Del Rio to intentionally get disqualified but this works too. Perhaps a rubber match at Summerslam when Ziggler finally gets rid of AJ and wins the title back? ****3/4*

*Henry/Cena* - I've seen a lot of praise for this so far but I'm not feeling it quite as much. Henry was good and it felt like they were trying to re-do Cena/Lesnar in a lot of ways, but it didn't come off quite right. Some good nearfalls with the finisher kickouts and Cena's comebacks were ok. Poor finish, did Cena really have to make Henry tap? Will watch again but at the moment it's just above average. ****1/4*

*WWE MITB * - Seriously, what the fuck was this? Absolutely awful. No structure at all and the spots weren't even good to make up for it. Sheamus took a nice bump through the ladder (and let's not kid ourselves, that looked painful) and Orton hit that sweet RKO on RVD but other than that, this sucked ass. Orton winning makes sense I guess since it can line up his heel turn, I really hope we don't see Cena/Orton again though. I was very surprised to see Orton win tbh. The Punk/Heyman storyline now moving along was good actually, obviously Heyman will be in Brock's corner when that match comes about. **1/4*

Overall, a solid PPV but yet again the main event really drags it down. The only PPV main event this year that's even been tolerable was HHH/Lesnar at Extreme Rules, and some people don't even like that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

*My thoughts on Money in The Bank 2013:*

7/10. I enjoyed the show overall. Of course watching it with friends helped.

Both MITB matches delivered and they were the best matches of the night. Fast paced, non-stop, unpredictable action filled with crazy spots, just what I like. If there's one thing I can compliment about these MITB ladder matches tonight - it is that they had a fair share of unique spots. Usually in ladder matches because of how many they've had in the WWE - we tend to get a lot of recyclable and predictable spots, but I was pleasantly surprised with the good amount of the innovative spots they put on tonight, made the matches a lot more entertaining and overall enjoyable.

Aside from the good ladder matches, the only other good match was the World Title match between Del Rio and Dolph Ziggler. They put on a good match as always, not as good as their Payback match, but still one of the best matches of the night. I was expecting some sort of screwy finish with Del Rio holding onto the title so I wasn't really too annoyed with the outcome. Hopefully now Ziggler will break away from AJ and Big E as with Ziggler being a true face now he shouldn't be associated with AJ and Big E anymore who are heels. 

The WWE Title match between John Cena and Mark Henry was painfully average. A typical John Cena vs monster matchup, where Henry dominated the majority of the match only for Cena to make a lame comeback for the win. It was good to see Henry kick out of the AA, but ultimately I think Henry looked worse by tapping out to Cena. Cena was 100% going to win this one, so I wasn't bothered by the outcome. I only wish this match went on last so we could of at least had the hope of a cash-in, but no.

The rest of the matches which featured Curtis Axel vs The Miz, Ryback vs Chris Jericho and AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn were all below average, no fucks given matches. I couldn't care for any of these matches and I don't recommend you watch them.

Good points:

- Damien Sandow winning MITB
- RVD return
- two good MITB matches and a good World Title match.

Bad points:
- poor undercard matches
- WWE Title match wasn't good
- No Wyatt Family appearance


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I will probably rant over the next week about how annoying their decision was. I thought the ladder-yank RKO on RVD was really cool and probably the best 'special' RKO ever, but he was the guy in the match I wanted least to win it. I'd definitely rather even the returning RVD win it, who I'm not even a fan of. Hell, fuck RVD, I think I would prefer someone random as hell like Maven come back as Kane's replacement and win the MITB match over Orton. We'll probably get a shitty, over-acted, exaggerated, phony, hammy, pathetically portrayed heel viper world title run now with Orton failing at rolling his back in his head and making those laughable 'look at me I'm a psycho!' facial expressions. Hey, but look on the bright side! A more-talented-than-Orton-guy like CM Punk might get to feud with Curtis Axel!! FUCKHEADS.


Maybe he'll turn into Randal Viper All-Star? rton2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

In my Randall Viper All-Star dream he looked/acted like Legend Killer Orton, so, yeah, I'd be up for THAT.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I guess I might as well throw some ratings up for the show:

Smackdown MITB match - ****3/4*
Del Rio/Ziggler - ****3/4*
Cena/Henry - ***1/2*
WWE Title MITB match - ****3/4*

Not going to bother to rate the other matches because I didn't give a fuck about them. 

Cena/Henry wasn't anything special, though I'm not surprised with the amount of positive ratings for the match in this thread with how much over the top love Henry gets here. Don't let that love blind you folks..


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

I want to see that title in Orton's waist. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Nostalgia said:


> Don't let that love blind you folks..


Well that's complete horseshit.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MITB Ratings:

WHC MITB- ****1/4 (Really it'd be ****, but I'm throwing in an extra 1/4* for Sandow winning. FUCK YEAH! SANDOW WON MITB! :mark: !!!!!!! Outside of that, the match was awesome. Cody gave the performance of his career so far, everyone had some cool spots and it all went well. Looking forward to the Sandow/Rhodes feud.)
Miz/Axel- *1/2 (Yawn)
Kaitlyn/AJ- **1/4 (Nowhere near their last encounter but still decent enough)
Ziggler/ADR- ***1/2 (Same as above, except replace "decent" with "great")
Cena/Henry- ** (Garbage. A boring squash for 75% of it with Henry going at an extremely dire pace, followed by them trading finishers for the victory. Henry tapping out was terrible).
WWE MITB- ** (This match was BORING! There was no structure and it was a giant mess. The problem was the crowd was dead for Orton (the eventual winner), Sheamus, and Christian, and they were the ones that took up 70% of the match (or at least that's what it felt like, which is another issue in itself). Highlight of the match was Heyman turning on Punk, and the way they told that was perfect. Can't wait for Raw to hear Heyman's explanation. Orton winning I'm fine with for the time being, although Bryan really should've won. But overall it was a mess of a match)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I was neutral on Orton winning. Honestly I don't mind at all. And I know I'm in the extreme minority when I say this, but I would rather have Orton as the MITB holder over Daniel Bryan. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, because Bryan's getting pushed regardless. All the character build Bryan's had over the past weeks, the wins over top stars, Bryan IS getting pushed and because of that - he doesn't really _need_ MITB.

I'm hoping Orton will cash-in on Cena soon and turn heel in the process, a heel turn that's long overdue for Randy, and maybe a heel turn could make Orton a bit more interesting again. It would certainly give him some direction again and make him relevant again, because while I'm not a fan of current Orton, the guy is a 9 time World Champion, Royal Rumble winner, WrestleMania main-eventer, he's one of the WWE's top stars and it's crazy how much he's fallen over the past two years. It looks like they're going to push him again and I'm sure that going to please all the Orton fans who have had to sit through Orton doing absolutely nothing for two years. I didn't mind Orton winning at all.



Yeah1993 said:


> Well that's complete horseshit.


Well all I'm going to say is if it was Big Show, or Kane, or any other monster character that wrestled Cena in a completely average and formulaic match that we've seen Cena wrestle a dozen times, I don't think it would get as much praise. But because it's Mark Henry who gets so much praise around this thread for being this apparent ''truly great worker'' everyone loved it - when to be perfectly honest - there was nothing great that Mark Henry did in that match. He did a good heel control segment, good facial expressions and storytelling, but nothing really _great_ and _stand out_ - and ultimately he was hindered by the poor booking of the match, booking which we've seen so many times before and that match was another in the list of ''Cena gets destroyed for 15 minutes only to win with a lame comeback'' match. It's the booking mainly why I found the match average, Henry did all he could, but the match wasn't anything special, I just think people are overrating because Mark fucking Henry was involved.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I'm all for Randy Orton being interesting again tbh. I'm okay with him winning the WWE MITB brief case as long as hes given new material to work with and hes actually, y'know, MOTIVATED. 

I'm more interested in seeing what the company will do with Mark Henry though. Coming off a hot feud with Cena, it should be interesting where he'll go from here. Like Yeah1993 said, hopefully they don't demote him back down the card.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

*The first MITB* match owned HARD. I thought for guys who aren't spotty wrestlers, they did an amazing job. Ambrose/Swagger/Cody/Cesaro were my highlights in that match. Didn't mind whoever won and was happy with the person who won.

*Ryback* put in some work with his match, but for his first PPV victory, something other than a roll up would have been nice

*AJ vs Kate*...the first one was leagues better.

*Sheild vs Usos* DAMN was that something, and the match picked up extremely nicely at the end. Was marking like crazy.

*Cena vs Henry*. wow was that ever typical. :clap (sarcasm)

*Miz vs Axel*... meh

The final MITB match was great for RVD's return, Sheamus looked mad strong in that match, and DB was over as fuck, DB should have won, but whatever, just hope he doesn't get dropped after this huge momentum. Orton may get shit on RAW being where it is, but happy he's back in a prominent role.

PPV gets a 8/10 for me. Very fun LOL that the pre show match was better the the WWE title match. Step up, WWE.

Edit: Shit, I knew I forgot one match 

*Ziggler* makes damn sure he gets the job done in the ring, that match was the best heel vs face match I've seen in a while. That's what it's supposed to be like.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

will watch henry/cena ziggler/del rio for the second time tomorrow to get a better feel, both were pretty good not great we will see

HOWEVER ! SD mitb was incredible, could we in the same night have saw the one of if not the worst mitb and vice versa. I stated I HATE this gimmick but that match was great, everyone played their part perfectly,

RAW-ALL STARS- disappointing but I kinda knew it would be and the sd would be better, it was really ************ or bust tbh, dull in the begin, punk/bryan portion was good but the rest was meh


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Henry should have one or two more feuds and then retire. He's been teasing retirement for a good while now, and there isn't much more he can offer the company, probably won't be long before he gets injured again and I don't think his body can take much more. 

A Henry feud I would like to see though would be a heel Henry vs a face Dolph Ziggler.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

I want Henry vs. Cesaro.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> Henry should have one or two more feuds and then retire. He's been teasing retirement for a good while now, and there isn't much more he can offer the company, probably won't be long before he gets injured again and I don't think his body could take much more.
> 
> A Henry feud I would like to see though would be a heel Henry vs a face Dolph Ziggler.


I honestly wanna see Ziggler continue to face people who can go with him in the ring. Henry is slow as fuck and Ziggler going against people like Cesaro, Rio, Punk, DB, or Sheamus, or even Orton, would be his best bet. What Ziggler does in that ring is pretty damn amazing. He hardly misses a beat and is a very good worker.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I love this gif. :lol

Anways, Henry vs Cena was good IMO. Have to re-watch it again. Pissed that I missed the pre-show tag match between the Usos and the Shield along with the WHC title match.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Nostalgia said:


> Cena/Henry wasn't anything special, though I'm not surprised with the amount of positive ratings for the match in this thread with how much over the top love Henry gets here. Don't let that love blind you folks..


My thoughts exactly. What a bore.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The 12th Man said:


> I want Henry vs. Cesaro.












Now that I can get behind.

Book it WWE. ASAP.


----------



## Maizeandbluekid (Apr 2, 2012)

My top 5 from tonight.

SD MITB *****1/2 [Outstanding showing from the young up-and-comers. Cody was the MVP of this match, and a nice swervy finish there by Sandow.]
*

Pre-Show Match ***** [Excellent way to get the in-ring action started. Usos put on a terrific show, and if they did a rematch at SummerSlam with The Usos going over, I would be all for it.]
*

ADR/Ziggler ****3/4 [Thrilling back and forth battle between two remarkable athletes. Crowd was into it throughout. Don't mind the finish, either. Dolph needs his big time moment by beating Del Rio at SummerSlam, so this was a nice way to help stretch it out.]*


RAW MITB ****1/2 [Despite the wacky fuckery at the end, this was still an entertaining match. Nice juicejob there by Punk, and I don't mind Orton winning. It's the potential looming Cena factor that I hate so fucking much.]*


AJ/Kaitlyn ***3/4 [Not quite as good as their match at Payback, but still good psychology in this one. Kaitlyn's intensity, plus AJ being smart and methodical by going after Kait's bad arm throughout. Still an OK match, and was by no means a piss break. It also helps that AJ and Kaitlyn have great chemistry together.]*

The others, bleh.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> I honestly wanna see Ziggler continue to face people who can go with him in the ring. Henry is slow as fuck and Ziggler going against people like Cesaro, Rio, Punk, DB, or Sheamus, or even Orton, would be his best bet. What Ziggler does in that ring is pretty damn amazing. He hardly misses a beat and is a very good worker.


Well it would be something different for Ziggler. I'm curious to see how he would work with a guy like Henry. A true underdog face Ziggler facing a monster heel in Henry is something that could be good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Now that Ziggler's a face I think he's showing his true talents. We always knew he was athletic and a bumping machine, but he plays the babyface role superbly.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Now that Ziggler's a face I think he's showing his true talents. We always knew he was athletic and a bumping machine, but he plays the babyface role superbly.


Agreed. I watched Ziggler/Cesaro from Main Event before the MITB PPV, and I'm really digging Ziggler's face work. His selling works more as a face because it gathers sympathy, his comebacks make you really want to get behind the guy, his flashy moves come across as better, he plays a great face underdog. And one of the best things I like about this Ziggler face turn is - his character hasn't really changed, he's still a cocky show off - just face.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Man did Henry/Cena and the WWE MITB drop like crazy after a rewatch. Henry was king in his match, but Cena's comeback after the AA was so awful and not very convincing. Did Mark Henry even take significant damage by the time he lost? Did feel underwhelming. As for the WWE MITB, as much as I believe Christian is a top tier talent, he really killed the pacing here. Sheamus sorta did too, but I liked his stiff shots and the bumps he took. RVD was a lot better than I expected, which is a very good sign. Orton was...what did he do besides win exactly? Bryan was awesome in the moments that he was doing something, but there were clearly not enough of those moments. Punk was great as usual and the Heyman "turn" was done to perfection.

RAW is in Brooklyn tomorrow. Expect a hot crowd and a great show guys.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved the show.

Usos/Shield - ***3/4
WHC MITB - ****
Axel/Miz - *
AJ/Kaitlyn - **1/2
Jericho/Ryback - **
Ziggler/Del Rio - ***3/4
Cena/Henry - ***1/4
WWE MITB - ****

- The pre-show match was absolutely amazing. I loved it.

- First MITB of the night did it's job and got Rhodes over big and continue the Usos/Shield feud. Some pretty cool and creative spots. Fun as hell.

- Miz/Axel was fairly boring.

- AJ/Kaitlyn wasn't as good as Payback but still good.

- Didn't really like Jericho/Ryback but it wasn't bad.

- Ziggler/Del Rio was great. Just didn't care for the ending.

- Cena/Henry was good but once again, lame ending. Hate to see Henry tap like that.

- WWE MITB was loads of fun. Great advancement in Punk/Heyman, Bryan looked like a boss and RVD looked to be in good shape.

Fun show. (Y)


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> Well it would be something different for Ziggler. I'm curious to see how he would work with a guy like Henry. A true underdog face Ziggler facing a monster heel in Henry is something that could be good.


The feud itself could probably deliver. I mean DB vs Henry was awesome and DB is GREAT in the ring. Just that people like Ziggler and Cesaro get major "over" points for what they do in the ring. I do think that Ziggler would probably be able to sell Henry being a legit monster thou, so I can understand you there. Ziggler would probably *bump/spot* that match into something fantastic. lol


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Man did Henry/Cena and the WWE MITB drop like crazy after a rewatch. Henry was king in his match, but Cena's comeback after the AA was so awful and not very convincing. Did Mark Henry even take significant damage by the time he lost? Did feel underwhelming. As for the WWE MITB, as much as I believe Christian is a top tier talent, he really killed the pacing here. Sheamus sorta did too, but I liked his stiff shots and the bumps he took. *RVD was a lot better than I expected, which is a very good sign* Orton was...what did he do besides win exactly? Bryan was awesome in the moments that he was doing something, but there were clearly not enough of those moments. Punk was great as usual and the Heyman "turn" was done to perfection.


This. RVD put in a real performance and that match and it was great. Seeing all the classic RVD moves again made me :mark:. 




Brye said:


> I loved the show.
> 
> Usos/Shield - ***3/4
> WHC MITB - ****
> ...


We share very similar ratings, we both very much enjoyed the ladder matches and Ziggler/Del Rio. I didn't enjoy Cena/Henry much, but mainly because of how it was booked.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I missed the show which fucking sucks, but to hear that Orton won the briefcase pisses me off beyond belief. If I have to witness Orton Vs Cena one more fucking time, I think I'm going to claw my own eyeballs out. 

JESUS CHRIST BARRETT GOING HAM WITH THE RUNG OFF OF THE LADDER.

Hoping to watch most of this tomorrow as well as posting a definitive Henry list which may or may not include his match from tonight.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just read the spoilers.

Ryback beat Jericho by rollup :lmao

Sandow wins MITB bama

HENRY FUCKING TAPPED OUT :kenny

Orton wins MITB :jay

Really surprised about Orton winning this. Like, really fucking surprised he won. When was the last time he closed a PPV standing tall? Late 2010 during the Cena/Nexus stuff? 

Heyman turning on Punk was bound to happen, so I'm cool with that.

I guess they just needed a big man to tide Cena over before his Summerslam feud, which apparently isn't with Bryan. FUCK. Maybe THIS fuels the Orton heel turn. Guess we can't talk about that enough. 

Doesn't sound like the Uso's and Shield are done yet, and I'm cool with that.

Need to see Raw results from last week also, and the Wyatt debut. MADDOX IS THE RAW GM DA FUCK?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just finished watching the Smackdown MITB and I'll be damned if anything tops that barrel of fun. Thought everybody was on point and the babyface-esque performance of Cody Rhodes was YES.

Counting down the minutes till Brock Vs Punk right now. LOL @ Cena main eventing just one of his first four PPVs as Champion assuming that Brock/Punk goes on last. Don't hear many people using this to shit on Cena's popularity like they did to Punk though.

OH BOY, Axel Vs Miz was ridiculously mediocre. I didn't even think it was terrible or anything besides Miz's ugly facial expressions and body language, twas' just dull as all fucking hell. Don't see a ton of potential in Axel like I see alot of people have, but I suppose under Heyman he hasn't been TOOOOO AWFUL.

Kaitlyn/AJ was above decent but not really anything close to their Payback greatness. What the hell is up next? Ryback/Jericho? Hell, I've been actually really psyched for this one so maybe it can deliver for my TASTES. Probably going to watch the next two matches & keep Cena/Henry & the WWE "All Stars" MITB for tomorrow.

Have to figure that Orton walks into Wrestlemania as WWE Champion though. I'm going to keep an open mind as much as I hate the decision in hopes that Orton can evolve into something fresh and new instead of reverting back to the "BLAHHH LOOK AT MY EYES ROLL INTO THE BACK OF MY HEAD" Alien looking psycho character. Maybe they do Orton-Cena at Summerslam & integrate Bryan into the program at NOC with Orton/Cena/Bryan while the biggest feud in the company continues to be Punk/Brock.

Summerslam Projections

Punk/Brock
Cena/Orton
Del Rio/Ziggler (NO DQ)
Shield Vs Usos Vs Cesaro/Swagger
Axel Vs RVD
Ambrose Vs Christian
Kane/??? (MAYBE Bryan?) Vs Wyatt Family
Ryback/Sheamus (Just because this intrigues me)

Henry doing SOMETHING?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

USOs/Shield **1/2
HWC MITB ***1/2
IC tile *
Divas title *
Cry back/Jericho ** (smh dat finish)
HW title ***1/2 (surprised at how good this was)
WWE title ***
MITB All Stars ****

I'm waiting till RAW to see what comes from the all stars match.
No way are they doing what I think they're doing.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> LOL @ Cena main eventing just one of his first four PPVs as Champion assuming that Brock/Punk goes on last. Don't hear many people using this to shit on Cena's popularity like they did to Punk though.


YES YES YES!!!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> JESUS CHRIST BARRETT GOING HAM WITH THE RUNG OFF OF THE LADDER.


Forgot to mention that, it was pretty great and they should do more shit like that.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Another thing I liked about Swagger and Cesaro in that match was that they looked to be solidified as a tag team, and they didn't have a stand off, or brawl. Swagger literally tried to help Cesaro get the case. It's like they're trying to get the title for Zeb, regardless. And I re watched it, and remembered the spot were Swagger pulled Barrett off the ladder and into the Antonio's uppercut had me like...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Awesome PPV. Easily tops all others with WM being its only competition. Got not complaints other than the obvious "Orton sucks" on the main event, but I 100% knew it was coming so fuck it. He'll job and that's that.

I liked every match on the show. And nah. Henry vs Cena wasn't a bore are you kidding me? That was the best match only with the opener coming close to giving it a run for its money.

oh and the preshow match wasn't good except for the crowd. Usos suck big time.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

MITB 2013, first thoughts

WHC MITB - *****- This was fun, spotty as hell but that's what the SD MITB match has become. It was okay, i thought at times it was sloppy and very unstructured but with some very innovative spots. They made Cody into a main eventer in this. HE IS OVER AS FUCK AS A FACE ALREADY. Sandow/Rhodes at SS? I'm cool with that. Sandow winning was :mark:
Axel/Miz - **** 'Tha fuck with Heyman getting sent to the back?  (Miz is awful, always has been, this was no different. Axel was okay i suppose. It's so upsetting to see the Perfect Plex become a signature move and not a finisher especially as Axel's one is identical to Ambrose) Meh match, it was awful by any means but it was DULL DULL DULL.
Jericho/Ryback - **** Meh, Ryback won apparently by cheating according to Cole? Didn't see that, just saw a roll up.
Ziggler/Del Rio - ****1/4* It was good, no where near Payback level but they were gonna have difficulty getting anywhere near that level. The ending, however needed SUCKED. Yes it put Ziggles over even more and now he's a clear cut face which i'm excited for but it was so anticlimactic. 
Cena/Henry - ***** Standard Cena/Henry match, nothing to hate here except for weak ending. HENRY 
WWE MITB - Yet to see this, saw who won though. I guess they have faith in RKO again, fair enough he's paid his dues i suppose. BRYAN SHOULD HAVE WON. RVD WOULD HAVE ACCEPTABLE. Orton better not fuck this up because i am really dreading ANOTHER Cena/Orton feud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton's going to probably lose the cash in on RAW a la Cena last year. This is why I expected the result and not dreading anything.

Gonna laugh big time if WWE does Orton vs Cena again, but I don't think they're stupid enough to do so. Orton will lose, Danielson will swoop it, all is right.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

For the first time in a loooooong time;

WWE should have done the predictable and easy thing and GIVE BRYAN THE MITB case. Fuck it was perfect timing.

Bryan's taking the long road but will get there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rambling thoughts C+P'd from elsewhere. Probs need to rewatch Cena/Henry more than anything really.

Miz looks like he's playing twister when he puts on a figure four.

Why did Del Rio expose his kneepad....TO DO A SUPERKICK. C'mon guys, you're smarter than that. Thought Ziggler/Del Rio was below their Payback encounter. Need to have a rewatch but watching live I didn't think Del Rio and Ziggler captured the same atmosphere as they did in Chicago with Ziggler bumping like a loon and Del Rio looking like the most heinous individual around. Finishing stretch honestly felt like every match they've had on TV: couple of big reversals, the reverse suplex off the top etc. AJ finish was stupid and made little sense: can't wait for her to turn on Ziggler and reveal it was all a setup from the beginning, shock-horror.

The bulk of AJ/Kaitlyn was solid, bar the stupidity of working the left arm only for AJ's submission to wrench the right arm. I guess you can excuse it as softening the left arm up enough to make it useless when she has the submission on, but it still felt like a glaring example of a lack of thought by both. Also despite the limbwork being fine, it really felt like they should have had a hectic balls to the wall slugfest given the nature of the feud and the SD Contract Signing. I remember they had a 5 minute match on RAW one time and Kaitlyn took a couple of nutty bumps on the floor and apron and the whole thing flew by.

SD MITB was a car crash match but eh for a match with 6 out of the 7 being directionless and pushed horribly I can't really complain. Cesaro standing on Swagger was unique and an interesting way to play up the unity between both. Cesaro's uppercut was indeed the spot of the match I thought. Cesaro's bump on the ladder from the musclebuster by Cody looked hideous. Swagger looked to legit injure himself at the end with the apron bump. Ambrose's skin the cat on the ladder was a unique spot although it lacked little sense. Thought they did a good job of having Cody basically go on a tear and decimate the competition, winning the crowd over as a result of his frenzy before Sandow struck. No doubt Cody/Sandow is on the horizon given them teasing a break up before the PPV.

Cena/Henry desperately requires a rewatch because I thought it wasn't good at all. The opening spell had promise with the nutty Austin/Benoit esque front suplex on the steps and Henry did look good cutting Cena down...but man I hated the 'can he lift him story'. He's done it regularly in the past on top of lifting bigger guys and it just screamed like a BS way to scramble some story of struggle in which was half-arsed. If they do a spot where Cena gets obliterated and hurts his back and then it gives out during an AA I'd probably like it better: but even though I'm a fan of long term build in matches the repetititve 'almost got him' AA spot just annoyed me more each time because I knew it was WWE revisionism at work. Nearfalls were also standard WWE finisher trading with little in the way of placement to even suggest it was over. Man am I really beginning to hate WWE finishing stretches, there's just no creativity involved and it just feels so easy to call a nearfall a mile away. Opening spell was good-great and Henry was fine on top and really Cena didn't do too much wrong working underneath: but this lacked the engaging middle and finishing run for me to say it was a good example of Cena vs monster heel.

RAW MITB........FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK. Uhh I know Bryan is getting a push, man has gone over Orton & Sheamus clean in recent weeks. So I know at worst he's established himself as a commodity and may finally be elevated into that upper echelon and no longer trade wins and losses every week. But sweet jesus this just felt like his moment. Punk was a no-go and Orton/Sheamus are in that position of always being relatively over (Orton far moreso) and always being capable of a title push. Bryan's not that far up yet and you have to think winning in the MAIN EVENT would have signified a defining moment for him. I guess Cena/Bryan is still a good bet assuming Orton will use the MITB to likely steal a win off of the champion, Henry appears to be done with Cena and the only other real contender would be Sheamus: but ehhhh I just feel Cena/Bryan is so much stronger by giving Bryan momentum and basically forcing the fans to wonder if they're going to take the plunge and give him a chance.

Actual match was pretty poor I thought. Feels like WWE get too cute now in gimmick matches and need to have staple spots in regular matches overlap into a gimmick match for the novelty: aka Sheamus' bear clubbing spot being done on the ladder. Just illogical and designed to be a cute spot. Bryan was a virtual non-existant entity in the match bar the running knee and his two minute obliteration of the competition at the end. I can't see Bryan/Axel being likely: given RVD was taking the final spot, Punk was being screwed over & Sheamus took the dive through the ladder it was purely Bryan or Christian who would be the guy 'taken out' by Axel. Suppose at least it makes Bryan look strong in that he was taken out from winning. Heyman/Punk was good for the actual ladder shots which were nutty, but I did hate Heyman protesting and standing around JUST to turn on Punk. Its one of those obviously telegraphed moments that just takes forever and makes Punk look stupid as a result. Would have preferred Heyman to portray the innocent bystander who had no part in Axel's involvement and have that lead to a distraction which sees Punk eat a big spot to eliminate him. RVD damn near crippled Sheamus when pushing him off the ladder and he looked quite clunky. Sheamus was a damn workhorse throwing some damn stiff strikes, taking a couple of big bumps and generally being involved in nearly every aspect of the match. Orton winning is the drizzling shits for me. Hopefully Cena/Bryan is still the plan for Summerslam because fuck a Cena/Orton match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Awesome PPV. Easily tops all others with WM being its only competition. Got not complaints other than the obvious "Orton sucks" on the main event, but I 100% knew it was coming so fuck it. He'll job and that's that.
> 
> I liked every match on the show. And nah. Henry vs Cena wasn't a bore are you kidding me? That was the best match only with the opener coming close to giving it a run for its money.
> 
> oh and the preshow match wasn't good except for the crowd. Usos suck big time.


Oh damn it, I thought for sure you'd dislike the main event as much as I did. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> Why did Del Rio expose his kneepad....TO DO A SUPERKICK.


:lol I noticed that too, my friend. Good thing he wasn't able to hit it, would've been like Sheamus doing the Irish curse backbreaker while standing on the steps. Zero sense made.

Thought RVD looked really good in his return but man did he also look dangerous. Almost killed Sheamus with that push off the ladder. In fact Sheamus almost died a couple times.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Thinking back, my favorite moment was definitely the Sandow/Rhodes interaction. That resonated louder than anything else on the PPV, and WWE are 2-for-2 in back-to-back PPV babyface turns.

Orton's reaction to winning was hilarious. He almost looked as bored as I did. I say almost, because there's no way that Orton can bore himself as much as he bores me.

Heyman costing Punk was cool, and the thing I'm most looking forward to on Raw.

Axel costing Bryan was not cool. Not cool at all. If it leads to a feud (which, based on Bryan's inability to let anything go, I'm guessing it will) I'll cry salty tears of man sorrow. It would be just like the WWE to take the hottest babyface and use him to try and get the blandest heel over. Hopefully it's a one night gig.

RVD looked better than he ever did in TNA. I thought seeing him return and bust out all the old moves might wash away the stink of his TNA run, but I can't give fucks about RVD in 2013 (sorry 2002 me).


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Gonna be really good to see Brock work a non gimmick match this time around. At least I hope so. Dont think hes been in one since his return.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't think its an indication Bryan feuds with Axel. RVD was the fall guy taking the final 'big spot bump' of the match, Sheamus took the bump through the ladder, Christian was building a time portal to 2009 where he actually got an opportunity to outwork 99% of the roster and Punk was obviously pre-occupied with Heyman's turn. Since Orton was winning that left Bryan as the only guy who could otherwise be 'taken out' by Axel, with the motive being guiding Punk to victory.

At best I could see a match tonight or an interaction where Bryan maybe gains a small measure of retribution. Realistically Punk GTS'ing Axel could indicate a match between them two especially with Heyman as Axel's manager and having now turned on Punk. Suppose it also reflects better on Bryan that he was the one robbed of victory prior to Punk as well.

I'm still cheesed off with Bryan not winning. I adore the guy but I'm not someone who's biased enough to want him to win every match. I do however think last night was the best moment to just give him a rub. He's picked up clean wins over Orton & Sheamus on TV and is definitely at worst being elevated on TV in terms of placement and the ratio of wins to losses. But still, its the Main Event in PHILDADELPHIA. The guy is over everywhere he goes but ala Punk he's clearly supremely over in New York, Chicago & Philly. I see people say Bryan doesn't need MITB and they can easily book Cena/Bryan for Summerslam via Beat The Clock or a #1 Contenders' Match, but it just feels like last night represented a chance to capitalise on a hard working guy getting consistently over organically and have him go over in the Main Event against 3 of the more established guys on the roster. 

If they do Cena/Bryan and have Orton potentially hovering over waiting to cash in and potentially turn heel, then eh maybe it could be an interesting direction. But if they just shoe-horn Bryan away from Orton immediately afterwards and just focus on Cena/Orton then it just feels like Bryan will be yet another guy who's over and is dieing for a good program to keep his momentum going, but will be left feeding for scraps whilst the established talent in Cena/Orton resume a long running feud.

Ahh, just feels like WWE played it safe instead of taking the plunge on a fresh young act who could prove long-term to be a worthy investment, especially in the age where the roster is severely lacking in genuine stars.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Top 80 SummerSlam Matches*

Part 1
Part 2

*Part 3 (40-21)

(***3/4)
40 - Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2012









39 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, 1995









38 - Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2009









37 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, 2009









36 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, 2012









35 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno vs. Tajiri, 2003









34 - Ted DiBiase vs. Virgil, 1991









33 - Edge vs. John Cena, 2006









32 - Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, 1998









31 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, 1996









(****)
30 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, 2007









29 - The Undertaker vs. Mick Foley, 1996









28 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, 2010









27 - Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett, 2011









26 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, 2002









25 - Chris Benoit vs. Rob Van Dam, 2002









24 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, 2009









23 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, 1992









22 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, 2005









21 - Owen Hart vs. Steve Austin, 1997







*​


Spoiler: List so far



*Honorable Mentions*
Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler, 1993
Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano, 1995
The Undertaker vs. The A-Train, 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, 2007
CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, 2012

*(***)*
80 - The Un-Americans vs. BookDust, 2002
79 - JeriShow vs. Cryme Tyme, 2009
78 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1990
77 - Bam Bam Bigelow & The Headshrinkers vs. Tatanka & The Smoking Gunns, 1993
76 - Rey Mysterio, John Morrison & Kofi Kingston vs. Alberto Del Rio, The Miz & R-Truth, 2011
75 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, 2000
74 - D-Generation X vs. The McMahons, 2006
73 - The Rockers vs. Power & Glory, 1990
72 - The Hart Foundation vs. Demolition, 1990
71 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Money Inc., 1992
70 - Kane & X-Pac vs. The Undertaker & The Big Show, 1999
69 - X-Pac vs. Tajiri, 2001
68 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, 2003
67 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, 2005
66 - CM Punk vs. JBL, 2008
65 - The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio, 2012
*(***1/4)*
64 - The Undertaker vs. Test, 2002
63 - Barry Horowitz vs. Skip, 1995
62 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mick Foley, 1999
61 - The Rockers & Tito Santana vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus & Rick Martel, 1989
60 - Kane vs. Rey Mysterio, 2010
59 - Kane vs. Daniel Bryan, 2012
58 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, 1998
57 - Diesel vs. Razor Ramon, 1994
56 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, 1988
55 - Sheamus vs. Randy Orton, 2010
54 - The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, 1993
53 - D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, 1998
52 - Lance Storm vs. Edge, 2001
51 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, 2004
50 - X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett, 1998
*(***1/2)*
49 - Booker T vs. The Rock, 2001
48 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2002
47 - Hakushi vs. The 123-Kid, 1995
46 - The Rock vs. Triple H, 1998
45 - Triple H vs. Eugene, 2004
44 - Chris Jericho vs. Rhyno, 2001
43 - Sheamus vs. Mark Henry, 2011
42 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1989
*(***3/4)*
41 - Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2005
40 - Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2012
39 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, 1995
38 - Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2009
37 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, 2009
36 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, 2012
35 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno vs. Tajiri, 2003
34 - Ted DiBiase vs. Virgil, 1991
33 - Edge vs. John Cena, 2006
32 - Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, 1998
31 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, 1996
*(****)*
30 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, 2007
29 - The Undertaker vs. Mick Foley, 1996
28 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, 2010
27 - Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett, 2011
26 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, 2002
25 - Chris Benoit vs. Rob Van Dam, 2002
24 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, 2009
23 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, 1992
22 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, 2005
21 - Owen Hart vs. Steve Austin, 1997


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Wasn't a fan of the show and then the main event just totally derailed any excitement I could have had coming out of the show. I mean I'm a huge Danielson mark yes and I'd love for him to get the biggest push ever but fuck this was the right time and everything. It's not often that a guy gets over so organically and just needs that one big win to be elevated into the main event but this was so it. Then not only does he lose but he gets screwed by Curtis fucking Axel? My heart literally sunk into my ribs. Talk about a deflating direction to go in. My initial thought was that Bryan's now paying for having good matches with everyone. Axel's a guy who's struggling to have good matches and make people care. Bryan's the opposite. Rather than rewarding the guy who's doing it right you end up pushing him back down the card to try and get this other dude over who doesn't have any star quality about him at all. But he's Hunter's buddy and Bryan's just an awesome wrestler so Hunter's buddy gets the push. If the aim was to make me watch a Axel match then mission acomplished. Feels like Bryan's whole build for the last month is just wasted though. That big win over Orton on Raw. What does that mean now? Not a whole fricking lot because Orton got his win back when it really mattered. Once again everyone trades wins and it helps nobody. Should have seen it coming when Orton did those clean jobs to Bryan and Punk. Whoever's losing wins in the end. Superb logic. Oh well Bryan. Serves you right for having them great matches with Ryback. Now you're forever the guy who makes guys like Ryback and Curtis Axel look better than they are.

The kick off match was indeed probably MOTN. It wasn't all that great though for MOTN. Ended up watching the pre-show and this went really long. Like 15 minutes long which was odd because they then didn't spend any time promoting the matches on the show properly. Isn't that the whole point of a pre-show? To get extra last minute buys? Match was dull until the hot tag (not kidding that they went to a Dead Man Down trailer during the hot tag on their own PPV) but then it got good.

1st MITB was pretty crap I thought. I wanted a ton of Cesaro spots and they didn't come. Johnny Curtis would probably make a very good babyface worker in the ring with his style. Ambrose didn't even get an entrance on the PPV. How them guys have fallen. The standout spots were pretty stupid. Ambrose skinning the cat spot was stupid but it doesn't help when smartass JBL starts telling you how stupid it is by protesting with Cesaro/Swagger to just drop the ladder. I think they've totally run out of ideas for these matches now. They try to be way too cute in being original. All 7 guys looked really dangerous and unsafe in this environment too. Apart from Cesaro I guess. This actually missed a guy like Kofi. Finish was good I guess. I don't care but it worked. Assuming they follow through and turn Cody now at least. Another one of Hunter's guys gets the big win. Yay for Hunter guys!

I like Maddox a lot because he's basically Mac from Always Sunny but this was lame and had no place on a PPV. The Shield tag got bumped for this. Maddox is good at what he does but the crowd don't really help him with it and it ends up being really arkward.

Curtis Axel lol.

Divas match was better than half of the card. And it wasn't all that good. I didn't dislike it though so it beats half the card. Big E's first 6 months have gone well haven't they?

Jericho/Ryback was bad. Ryback can excel in one type of match and it's the one that Bryan works with him. Nobody looked good here. Ryback couldn't even win using his finisher. If you're doing a roll up finish then at least do a half decent roll up. The idea that Jericho couldn't kick out of that was stooooooooopid.

Care about as much for Del Rio as I do for Curtis Axel. And I fucking hate that guy. Match was so so with a bad finish.

Cena/Henry I didn't think delivered at all. Steps spot was bossy but aside from that.... nothing. Exactly the same as Punk/Jericho the month before and any other match in this slot. Kill time until Wrestler A hits their finish out of nowhere with no hint of a finishing stretch and Wrestler B obviously has to kick out. Wrestler B is one of the boys so returns the favour. The "Can Cena lift Henry up" story was stupid but they should have at least paid it off by having the AA be the finish.

MITB match was much like the 1st one but slightly better. RVD looked so dangerous and was being guided through the match by Sheamus. That's kinda funny. I can't think of any memorable spots in this. Bryan did nothing until his finish so I assumed he was winning because the guy who wins does nothing to stay safe. But nobody really did anything bar Sheamus. That would have been a great finish too. Christian literally did nothing. Sheamus was great during this though. Orton offered little but he was winning. Punk offered little too. Heyman turn was good. Orton winning regardless of it meaning Bryan losing was whatever. I'm assuming he turns heel now which upsets me because he's been pretty fun to watch this year purely because of how over him and the RKO are and he plays the fans really well. So I guess he turns on Cena and they feud then? Could be worse. Could be a whole lot better and really should have been.*


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Posted this elsewhere, but fuck it;

*Lesnar/Punk*
If anyone's seen Warrior, the match should be like the penultimate fight of the film. The one with Brendan going against Koba.

Proper David vs. Goliath match. Lesnar should be the true BEAST. Destroying everyone on the way to Summerslam, maybe even rip apart the set or something showing how much of a monster he is. Nothing like he's been booked since his return. Build an aura around Lesnar and make him seem dangerous, make him "injure" someone on the way while all the while Punk's the ULTIMATE underdog. His best friends turned his back on him and he's got no one to turn to, it's him against the world.

I hope they make sure they play up the fact that Punk knows a lot of styles of fighting so he can use them against Lesnar at SS, a real David vs. Goliath match is what would make this investing. Heyman is just the leash holding Lesnar back because as he's said before "his clients don't fight for free". Make Punk talk about overcoming odds his whole life and how this is nothing different, another obstacle to overcome. Maybe have Heyman remind Punk that he wouldn't be where he is today if it wasn't for him. Have Punk doubt himself whilst Heyman and Lesnar are on a warpath.

I know Lesnar should win but if they build it anything like this, i think Punk would have to win. You can't do an underdog story where the underdog gets beaten. I'm seriously looking forward to this match.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

They definitely missed a moment to cement Bryan. He can still get the match at Summerslam, but it would have been a much bigger moment to have him win the breifcase, stand face-to-face with Cena, and set up the match in advance. 

I'm sure his time will come, but last night was perfect.

Winning a #1 contender match doesn't have the same vibe. Bryan has constantly been the underdog, the "weak-link". Having him win the breifcase and then refuse to cash-in cheaply would've been monumental. Much more conducive to Bryan's story than "hey, there's four guys, give them a match to decide who faces Cena next". Unless they bring back the Gold Rush tournament, or something of the sort. Bryan really has to earn the #1 spot now.

I'm not sure why they threw that away either. For Orton. An established 9 time World champion who can be booked into a title feud with the bat of an eyelid. Just because he hasn't been booked in the title picture for a while doesn't mean that he can't be.

Cena and Orton; back-to-back WWE MITB winners. Lord.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Was only really pulling for Bryan and Christian, I like Sheamus too, but I would much rather he bring legitimacy to the WHC, than having a moot title reign with the WWE championship as the label. Did Orton really need the briefcase? I mean I understand the sentiments of "Oh, he's been jobbing for 2 years and in a state of irrelevancy" but that situation isn't worthy of a MITB win and possibly a WWE title reign. In those two years, he didn't present himself as an enthusiastic, ambitious worker on a consistent basis, in opposite to attitude, he looked unmotivated and unwilling. Bryan on the other hand, produced great matches on a back-to-back timeframe, right after WM, while being given a cheesy gimmick, that still transitioned to an over state with the infamous "YES" chant and more so, Bryan himself. He needed this, a burst out of the bubble, entertaining a whole stadium to the point of standing ovations is more beneficial to the company than a peaked and wasted battery.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Still can't believe Orton won. Too awesome to be true!

I think Bryan/Cena will still happen for SummerSlam. Winning the briefcase is not the only way to get a shot and everyone should know that. Bryan will probably beat Punk or somebody (maybe Punk in non-clean fashion to advance the Heyman feud) in a #1 contender match and faces Cena at SummerSlam. Whether he wins or not, I don't know. Maybe lolcenawins and Orton turns heel by cashing in. Bryan's victory should be saved for WM. Let him win the Royal Rumble to also bring back prestige for that PPV.

@ATF: Good list so far. For some reason, I always thought picture for #25 was actually Rhyno but turns out it's RVD.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Ever Wolf said:


> Posted this elsewhere, but fuck it;
> 
> *Lesnar/Punk*
> If anyone's seen Warrior, the match should be like the penultimate fight of the film. The one with Brendan going against Koba.
> ...


This sounds good. I really dont know how WWE is going to plan this one. Should be interesting. Though the underdog story will kind of be a rehash of Cena/Brock, its possible this one would work out better. I just want to see Brock work an actual back and forth wrestling bout again. As I feel Brock/Punk could work a good style match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

As long as Orton doesn't defend his briefcase against someone or loses his cash in match then I'm fine. I would prefer if he cashed it unsuprisingly though. Then he could turn heel by insulting the crowd for calling him a coward. It happened to CM Punk 2009 where he cashed it in against a popular face in Jeff Hardy which helped CM Punk turn heel.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*Some random thoughts:*

Assuming they use the MITB briefcase to turn Orton heel, surely he can't cash in on Cena? We've already seen them try to turn Ryback heel by attacking Cena but he got cheered for it, before getting no heat at all. Granted, that's more to do with him being boring than Cena being hated but still. If Orton cashed in on Cena he'd just be cheered and it probably wouldn't look like much of a heel turn. Plus, if that is the plan, why even give him the briefcase? There's tons of other ways to turn someone heel, why give Orton MITB when someone else more deserving could have got a rub from it? Hmmm. 

Also, how retarded is Orton going to look carrying that bright briefcase around during his sombre, brooding 'voices in my head' entrance? That alone makes me think a quick cash-in might be coming.

Looking forward to Raw tonight, a lot of fallout from last night which should be interesting. I sincerely hope there's not a Bryan/Axel feud coming, hopefully that small grudge will be settled with a match on Raw and Bryan can go on to challenge Cena for the title at Summerslam. Though I'd still prefer them to keep that match or a variation of it until Mania and have Bryan go over on the grandest stage of them all.

Hopefully we'll see Bray Wyatt's first match tonight, probably a carbon coby of his squash matches from NXT, but they were pretty entertaining for squash matches. (Sister Abigail :mark Hopefully preceded by a top promo too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Finally got around to watching it. Shield vs Usos ***1/2

And to add to the discussion: Orton cashing on Cena would make him an even bigger babyface. The only thing that would turn him heel is to have Bryan take the strap off Cena. Let him get a 2-3 month run with it and have Orton cash in. That's only way. He has to cash in on their biggest babyface which is, no doubt, Daniel Bryan. it makes sense in story too. Bryan lost MITB yet he got a shot for the title? It's best Orton should have lost too!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The ULTIMATE heel thing to do would be for Bryan to beat Cena, only for Orton to cash in immediately afterwards.

It would also be the worst option.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> The ULTIMATE heel thing to do would be for Bryan to beat Cena, only for Orton to cash in immediately afterwards.
> 
> It would also be the worst option.


 Alberto Dull Rio did the same to Punk two years ago but dude still couldn't get over huge as a heel.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Adored the PPV with Axel/Miz being actually decent on 4x fast-forward. :

*Mark Henry Vs John Cena (14/07/2013 WWE)*
★★★★ ¼
_I honestly wish I could have stopped blindly hating on Mark Henry sooner than I did. It simply does not stand to reason that he just suddenly got how to be a terrific big man in 2011, years after apparently being somewhat horrendous. Hell, character-wise mixed in with his nuances and subtleties, I'd see argument that he's (at the very least) the best big man going in contemporary professional wrestling. 

The underdog Cena story is, perhaps, a little over-done from a paper perspective yet I'll never tire if this is the narrative we'll be fed as I could buy Henry here. I adored how Henry worked from the top so brashly and slowly. He took Cena to town with his smash-mouthed, heavy-hitting offence all the while interjecting trash-talk and tone-setting facial expressions in enhancing his control segment. Compliments, too, to the WWE production crew in ensuring we were treated to close-ups of Henry at every turn. How can you not love Mark when he so coldly eyes a helpless Cena crawling towards him and grimaces in disgust over how weak his opponent seems? Or appreciate how badass the monster is when he's shouting "get yo' ass up, boy" in his Southern accent? Equally attributable to Henry's talent is his ability to work his structure off of the crowd. Perhaps this is an obvious step in wrestling, but I cannot help but think Henry does this at a more micro level than his other peers. As example to this, Henry's signs of doubt in himself, and lack of focus, started not after Cena continually kicked out but as reactions to the "smark-ridden" audience. Note how Henry stops and listens to those chanting "Sexual Chocolate", seemingly reminisces over the moments in his career that he despises and attempts to waver these memories from his conscious thought by violently shaking his head and shouting "focus" at himself.

As for the second-half of the narrative (Cena's retribution), I felt it could have been done a lot better. I'm not sure if it's simply because it felt too easy but it most certainly did not feel as close in quality to Henry's control segment. Still, I thought there was still some really good moments in it. On a first watch I also didn't warm up to the build of the AA only to be seemingly negated, yet on a second viewing I cannot help but think we're reading it in the wrong light. The AA was Cena's stone to kill Goliath and while he hit Goliath between the eyes it wasn't enough to take him down. If anything, it was to feed Henry even during Cena's comeback segment. As for the STF win, I found it ingenious and a great callback to Henry's story. Not only is it still a legitimate finisher for Cena but going into Wrestlemania Mark Henry legitimately injured his knee on a house show. Following his loss to Sheamus at Extreme Rules, Henry went into hiatus with the first rumours starting to circulate over his retirement. It was in this lul that Henry made dirt sheet news in attacking fans and stating that he has "too much hate" to retire and he's rather healing his (very legitimate) knee injury before returning. Sadly, for Henry and despite holding off for a great length of time, the second application of the STF would prove too much and perhaps re-aggravated his injury. The proud, Southern man hell-bent on destruction was thus forced to call for support from the referee in walking to the back. That particular detail isn't a staple following Cena's STF wins and yet another clue as to why the AA wasn't the deciding factor. Sure, I suppose it could have been built better, yet, like I stated, this entire section could have been done better, as well. Still, it was a good conclusion to a phenomenal match._​


Brock L said:


> when is the last time cena lost a match? its as bad as 2005


He's your top baby face, and the best wrestler in the company. If he kept losing then he'd lose that aura and the breakout moment of someone actually pinning him would be worthless.



Seabs said:


> *Finish [of Sandow winning] was good I guess. I don't care but it worked. Assuming they follow through and turn Cody now at least. Another one of Hunter's guys gets the big win. Yay for Hunter guys!*


I sincerely hope that this is not sarcasm. As far as I remember, you and I were one of the few posters who were behind Damien Sandow during his great FCW tenure in 2011. We both know he can work in the ring and can do a promo so this should be the spotlight for him to show off, again.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I see tons of people shitting on the WWE MITB match. I enjoyed it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh damn it, I thought for sure you'd dislike the main event as much as I did.


I didn't think it was grand or anything, but I didn't mind much of it. Truth be told, I noticed all of the stupidity of last night and chose to ignore it for personal gain. Ambrose skin the cat spot for example. I liked how it was different and shit, but why would Cesaro & Swagger hold on? Pretty just b/c they knew they could chuck him to the outside. K, fine, I'll take it. I've see WAY worse. Such as Henry vs Cena having a "can he lift him?" story and not even ending with the FU. D'oh.

Main event having Orton win was the worst thing ever but that's WWE. I went in EXPECTING it and felt about as dead inside once he won as much as that crowd did b/c that's what WWE does best. Orton can't lose a lot of matches without getting his win back in the end. Guy is trash. Booking for him is trash. Always has been trash ever since he's gone face. _"Lose a match via DQ. RKO afterwards to look good." "Or beat em up with a chair." "Or do something to make sure he can't 'lose' and stay down."_ blah blah blah. So trust me, there is dislike. I'm simply lifeless to the continuous bullspit WWE puts out with the guy. And at the expense of making a great moment of elevating a new star too. Bad.

Some more notes: 

~ Tag team championship should have been a three minute hot tag match. Would have been better. Shield are the tops, although they couldn't do anything to make me care while they attempted to carry the Usos to like 8 minutes of nothing until things got hot. Usos babyface work is so non-existent.

~ I like Sandow. As a character. As a wrestler getting a push towards the World Championship. Eh. He sure as hell better up his in ring game. That's for true. 

~ Cody Rhodes is here people. I know I care about this portion. Swerve with Sandow was done well. I'll always care for anything with Rhodes; especially something this substantial. 

~ Who said Fandango should be babyface? I said the same thing numerous times. Agreed.

~ Not saying Axel vs Miz lit the world on fire, but dammit I thought that match was a whole heck of a lot more decent than originally expecting. Plus the man beat him clean. I CHOOSE TO LIKE! Doesn't surprise me if some folks don't care. Why should they? Miz needs a long vacation.

~ Kaitlyn vs AJ zoomed on by. So naturally that means its >>>> the majority of other Divas matches WWE tends to pump out. Some of those go four minutes and feel like forever with their crap. Decent enough rematch here. Can't wait till the Bellas are back in the mix to plug that tv show. If I'm being forced to care, let me plug a Bella. Or that model dame with the RED hair. I don't care.

~ Jericho vs Ryback. Yeah, I tolerated it to the point of saying "I liked it" b/c it simply was just a moves match and I feared Ryback would do his injury bullshit. By default of expecting the outright worst I was into what was given simply thanks to that not being it. School boy clean was....unusual? Why didn't he win by Shellshock?

~ Meh, I liked Dolph vs Del Rio. Don't deny the fact the finish was a bit more of the bullshitty kind. D'oh x2, with AJ. Going down that path now. Liked how the fans actually treated each man under their new roles; Dolph's a face & Del Rio is heel. Good. They got those reactions. _(well, Dolph was over at least.)_ Did he really pull the knee pad down? I was hoping Dolph would win so much that I didn't even take the time to notice ADR. Kind of like the rest of the world. Hey oh!

~ Heyman turning on Punk got a "what the hell? omg" out of me. Dug that.

~ I proclaimed "WHAT THE FUCK x6" after Axel screwed Danielson. Believe that. Ask my brother. Go on, do it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> Ask my brother. Go on, do it.


I would, but I don't know who that is. 

I'm glad you have love for Cody Rhodes. He stole my heart back in 2011 with a promo that he cut in my home town.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> I would, but I don't know who that is.
> 
> I'm glad you have love for Cody Rhodes. He stole my heart back in 2011 with a promo that he cut in my home town.


He floats around here and there in the Sports section. 8*D

Been on the Cody Rhodes boat since '07. At a time when nobody liked him so it's like I was on the Rhodes boat, people made it sink, and I have been on the Rhodes island for years until people noticed how good he is. Perhaps its kinship by nature of sharing the same name. Always been a fan.

He ruled 2011 with an iron fist. So. Many. Great. Promos.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Duke Silver said:


> They definitely missed a moment to cement Bryan. He can still get the match at Summerslam, but it would have been a much bigger moment to have him win the breifcase, stand face-to-face with Cena, and set up the match in advance.
> 
> I'm sure his time will come, but last night was perfect.
> 
> ...


Depends really, I think that story works wonders even with Lesnar winning, again with the theory of Rock not returning CM Punk winning the Rumble to _force_ his way back into the Championship picture with Lesnar becoming WWE Champion around the same time leading to a Lesnar/Punk II with Punk looking to dethrone Heyman and Lesnar and once again become WWE Champion to solify hes _The Best in the World_

The whole angle of Punk doubting himself with Heyman reinforcing that he's nothing without him would be awesome.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'll reserve my judgment over Orton winning. Quite honestly, and noting how they "protected" Bryan, it feels as if Orton is simply going to win the title to offer it over to someone new rather than cement a feud with Cena. After all, if Orton picks up the victory Bryan can play up his scraps with Orton that happened over the past few weeks.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*Money in the Bank (Moneys? Banks? Two cases?)*
Pre-Show: ***1/2*, didn't watch
SD MITB: ***1/4*, Cody was decent in it but everything felt so stupid in this match
Miz/Axel: GOAT GOAT, I don't remember this match at all
Divas: -5stars
Ryback/Jericho: ******, the famous rollup finish was brought back. HURRAY
Ziggler/Del Rio: I'd rather watch Payback again, but this was okay
Cena/Henry: MANY STARS, but the match made no sense to me
RAW MITB: ROB VAN DAM!!! CM PUNK!!! BLOOD!!! **** for the blood. No stars for Orton. Minus one star for the commentary. However many stars for the other things so the match balances out at ***1/2*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Rhodes definitely won me over last night. I've always liked the guy, but it bordered on indifference most of the time since his booking has been so spotty. Standard WWE midcard booking. 

Place was going apeshit when Bryan when into his zone and took out everyone. Really think they would've preferred him winning to even RVD at that point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's still rather pointless. Or hollow. I may be the only guy who thinks he doesn't have a shot to actually cash in successfully. Said it once, twice, and plenty more; WWE Championship MITB is near meaningless these days. Cena lost last year. Picking Orton to lose this year.

All remains to be seen and I could be wrong. We'll play it by ear and say I came close like in horseshoes & hand grenades.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

This has to be building towards Bryan winning the rumble, preferably entering at number one and winning the title at WM and cementing him as a new star.

MITB in philly would have been a good opportunity for Bryan but I completely understand why they gave it to Orton even though I hate it. Orton's probably cashing in tonight or at the latest Summerslam.

But holy shit we are getting ANOTHER Orton/Cena program, i've gone back in time and seen these matches and stories already. They suck

All in all MITB was a good PPV, really enjoyable matches, not really a standout match meaning **** plus but a whole bunch of solid matches.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*I do like Sandow Rah. I'm just not all that excited by him right now. Probably because he hasn't been doing anything lately and I can't remember him having too many good matches on the main roster. If they pair him up with the right guy then I'll watch though.*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

People are giving Henry/Cena ****1/4? Maybe I wasn't fully paying attention since the outcome was extremely obvious, but Henry tapping pissed me off so that could be affecting my enjoyment (and I'm not even as big a Henry mark as most of this forum).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I need to rewatch Henry/Cena as well. I thought it wasn't very good at all tbh outside of Henry's demeanour and the opening control segment of dominance. Thought everything after Cena's comeback was really by the numbers WWE Main Event finisher trading and the recurring 'can he lift him' theme was just spoiled by being WWE revisionism at its heighest since Cena has FU'd Henry before. Shame as I had high hopes for it.

I think my main quarrel with the decision last night is because it represents a safe option in Orton at the expense of an upstart like Bryan. I'm not saying Bryan is about to become an afterthought, but its just another frustrating moment of a company seemingly placing their faith in someone established in fear of placing faith in an unknown commodity backfiring disastrously.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come:

*Disc 1*

_Documentary_
The Game
Growing Up
WCW
Hunter Heart Helmsley
Ninth Wonder of the World
Mick Foley
D-Generation X
Leader
DX vs. The Nation
Champion
McMahon-Helmsley
The Rock
Injury
Evolution
DX Returns
Torn and Rebuilt
Randy Orton
Actor
The Undertaker
Chief Operating Officer
A Unique Breed

*Disc 2*

Jean-Paul Levesque vs. Ricky Steamboat
WCW Saturday Night – 3rd September, 1994

Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Dude Love
One Night Only – September 1997

Iron Man Match for the WWE Championship
The Rock vs. Triple H
Judgment Day – 21st May, 2000

No Disqualification Match
Triple H vs. Kurt Angle
Unforgiven 24th September, 2000

*Disc 3*
All Championships on the Line
Triple H & Stone Cold vs. The Undertaker & Kane
Backlash – 29th April, 2001

World Heavyweight Championship
Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam
RAW – 30th June, 2003

Last Man Standing Match for the World Heavyweight Championship
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H
Royal Rumble – 25th January, 2004

Road to WrestleMania Tournament Match
Ric Flair vs. Triple H
RAW – 6th February, 2006

Return from Injury
Triple H vs. King Booker
SummerSlam – 26th August, 2007

Last Man Standing Match for the WWE Championship
Triple H vs. Randy Orton
No Mercy – 7th October, 2007

Non-Title Match
Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H
SmackDown – 21st November, 2008

Triple H vs. Chris Jericho
RAW – 30th November, 2009

*Easter Eggs*
Evolution - The Name

*
Blu-ray Exclusive Content*

No Disqualification / Career on the Line
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
WrestleMania 29 – 7th April, 2013

Stories
Motivation in High School
Hard Way In
Paul Scream
Resume
Sherri
Diamond Cutter
Hunter Hearst Helmsley – The Name
Wild ‘n Crazy Guys
Evolution’s Fifth Member ??
Shawn’s Comeback
WrestleMania 26
Two Movies at Once
Commemorating the End
Worst Gas on the Planet
Candy Bar
Praising the Boss
Behind the Scenes – Photo Shoot
Behind the Scenes WrestleMania 29 Weekend
Taping Wrists
The Levesque Game
King of Signs

Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-wwe-triple-h-thy-kingdom-come-dvd/46844/


This is a must buy for me as it has the iron man match, the Unforgiven match against Angle and the Last Man Standing match against Orton.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Match listing could be better but I'm assuming they didn't want many duplicates. Mostly looking forward to the biography anyway.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Looks like a good set. Not surprised to see some matches left out, this is more about the documentary anyway. I'm sure somewhere down the line we'll get a big, definitive HHH match set with all his best stuff on there.


----------



## hhhfan474 (Nov 7, 2006)

Love the list of matches. The Steamboat one is rare. Only seen it once on Youtube. It's nice to see an early Foley match. The Iron Man with Rock is amazing and love that they got a Flair match in there. The Orton match is really good as well and I really enjoyed the series with Hardy. Only thing I'm disappointed about is no Three Stages of Hell with Austin.

The documentary section should be great. It's been a long time coming. I can't wait!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

My MITB RATINGS after second watch
tag ***3/4
sd mitb ****1/2
miz/axel N/A
divas N/A 
y2j/ryback ***
ziggler/del rio *** 1/2-3/4
henry/cena ****
wwe mitb **1/2

- Everyone needs to go on wwe YT account and watch the pre-show the tag match is great. Uso were really good in this one. I know Ambrose atm is getting the push and praise but I just dont see it, the GUY in the shield imo is Rollins, grat wrestler.

- I have said it before I HATE mitb matches their just spotfest imo, saying that this was very fun, everyone played their part perfectly and the in-ring action was pretty good. As I saw Cody go up the ladder I thought to myself I actually DONT want him to win because he so generic atm it take a whole new makeover to make me care. I wanted Cesaro to win but Ill settle for Sandow

- Caught the end of miz/axel and it was boring so who cares, I dont care for divas other than their looks tbh

- Jericho/ryback was a type Jericho match- lionsult, codebreaker, chops and face paced, decent-ok thats pretty much it, Ryback doesnt look any better

-ziggler/del rio was a poor mans payback , Im alittle harsh on it because my expectations were very high because this is my guy and payback is MOTY for me. Its not bad, it good just not great- feud advancer

Henry/cena was great for what it was. Henry looked unstoppable in the beginning and then they tried the monster/little guy thing which worked just don't like the finish. A AA were have been better imo

WWE mitb was underwhelming- it was funny in the beginning yet slow, the punk/bryan portion was good but the rest was meh and it seemed so long. RANDELL VIPER ALL-STAR !!! 

Funny thing is I glanced around the site reading feedback and most out of this section liked the wwe mitb and though it was good-great


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Not the stacked lineup I wanted, but that Rock match, along with the Dude Love and NM 2007 matches, are enough to convince me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Needs the Jericho LMS match. No buy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TV matches making the set is nice. Beats the crappy PPV matches he has added vs Booker & Michaels. I hate when these sets stick modern PPV matches on them. What's the point when you distribute PPVs on DVD to begin with? Doubles. Doubles everywhere.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

MITB ratings

Usos/Shield - ****3/4*
WHC MITB - ******
Axel/Miz - **3/4*
Kaitlyn/AJ - ***
Ryback/Jericho - ****
Ziggler/ADR - *****
Cena/Henry - ****1/2*
WWE MITB - ***3/4*

Great start to the show, really dull/boring middle and the main events were okay. Forgettable show that was decent but pretty underwhelming. The string of bad PPVs continues for WWE.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*I marked the fuck out when Cody was climbing the ladder in the end as I wasn't really paying attention as to where Sandow was and thought he too was taken down after Dean Ambrose was thrown over (well that was the point, but still :side and when Sandow came in out of nowhere pushed him off the ladder, I was genuinely shocked and pissed at the same time. And the funny thing is, I like Sandow, which goes on to show how good Cody played his part. Well, this loss actually turned out to be a victory for Cody as he will probably turn face in the course of events, and more importantly, he's finally been given a worthwhile storyline to work on, about time he got one. Just hope that things click for him this time.*



Smith_Jensen said:


> Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come


*Now that's something that I'd definitely bu.. download :HHH2
Btw, have they ever made a documentary on Hunter's career before or is this the first one?*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Strange match listing for sure with a lot of under the radar choices but I like it. I only own 4 of the ones listed so I'm happy. I imagine they'll do some sort of match collection down the line for him, probably when he retires and they'll stick all the talked about matches on that one. Documentary looks great. Ninth wonder of the world? Interesting name for a topic lol. If they get the whole heap of people to talk on it who should talk on it, this is going to be great; The McMahon family, HBK, Naitch, Terry Taylor, Regal, Nash, Waltman, Foley, Rocky, Austin, Evolution, Jericho, Show, Cena and the list goes on and on. 

So hype for this :mark: :mark: :mark:.

MITB was a fun experience upon the live viewing and CODY RHODES stole the show. I was pulling for Cody to win and am very happy to see a face turn on the cards. I'd love to get a face Cody vs. heel Orton at Mania for the WHC. SD MITB was far and away the MOTN and one of my 3 contenders for MOTY at this point in time. Flat. Out. Awesome. Loved every second of it. Pace, flow, SPOTZ. Awesome stuff. Shield vs. Usos was fan-fucking-tastic as well. Can't wait for a rematch between these guys. Rest of the show was pretty meh. Cena/Henry was OK but sorely let down by the formulaic ending and story they went for. Crowd were GOAT though. Main event was a weird one. It had some holy shit moments but for the most part felt very slow and plodding with not a lot happening. Seamus killing himself takes the cake. Jesus that fall was nasty, as was Punk's ladder shot to the head. I'm sure there are a lot of sore guys in that locker room today. 

*SD MITB - ****1/4
Shield vs. Usos - ***3/4*

Watched them both twice and loved them equally as much on the second watch. Rest of the show isn't really worth talking about. Raw should be a good one later....we hope.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Seems as though through reading this thread I'm in the minority here but I didn't actually mind Henry/Cena too much. It was logically booked. Yes, nobody wanted to see Henry tap-out and Cena no-sell as usual, but I enjoyed Henry's performance in the match, which made sense considering the size difference between the two men.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

STEVIE SWAG said:


> *Now that's something that I'd definitely bu.. download :HHH2
> Btw, have they ever made a documentary on Hunter's career before or is this the first one?*


First I believe.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I really didn't like Henry/Cena after a rewatch. It was sluggish and uncoordinated. 

It just felt like this match has erased all the good the E did with Henry since his return. He's back to square one. The only thing i really liked was Henry's near fall after the WSS, at least they gave him that. But other than that bright spot, it wasn't good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just rewatched the main event from last night and I can rate it without being overwhelmed with marking out.

WHC MITB - ★★★¾
Axel/Miz - N/A
Divas - N/A
Ryback/Jericho - ★★
Cena/Henry - ★★★¼

WWE MITB - ★★★½ 
- Loved it on second watch. Did everything it had to with RVD doing the SPOTZ, Sheamus bumping around, Bryan with the adrenaline rush and Orton being the sneaky winner who didn't participate in very much. Punk also served his purpose with Heyman finally turning on him. Also liked it when he tossed the briefcase away as everyone was fighting on top of the ladders to make sure no one would get it. Great MITB and nowhere near "worst". The ending was just the perfect touch to make it memorable for me. It blows my mind that people are underwhelmed and think Orton is "bored" because he was mostly expressionless. I get that you don't like him but did you honestly expect him to jump around and hug the briefcase while running circles around in the ring? It's not part of his character to act like that, so the celebration was suitable.

Even though I ignored nearly half the PPV, I enjoyed the main matches apart from the finish to Henry/Cena.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWE bores the shit out of me right now so I decided to watch all of Undertaker's 2005 TV matches that were conveniently posted together on XWT or something*


*The Undertaker Vs Heidenreich & Paul Heyman - Smackdown 06/01/2005*

Handicaps match where the winner(s) get to pick the stipulation for the singles match between Undertaker and Heidy at the RR. Yeah, in order to decide what match to have at the RR, they are having a match on SD. Heyman is there too to technically make this a handicap match and different and shit, but it's pretty much a match to decide what match to have later, which kinda makes this match pointless. Or the RR match pointless. I forget which.

I really, really like their Survivor Series and RR matches. Far more than most people. Heidy sucks mostly, but damn if he don't have chemistry with the Dead Man. Some good shit. Hoping this will bring me some joy and stuff. More joy than that can of PUSSY I had the other day.

Heidy looks to have things going in his favour early on, starting with a big shoulder block where Undertaker goes down and immediately jumps up and looks at his opponent like "bitch, you know who I am?". Then starts arm dragging Heidy because he fucking can. 

One of the reasons I think I like their matches together is that Undertaker during this time was really getting into his "best striker in WWE" type offence and Heidy was a big hitter too, and 'Taker was good at making his shots look believable and shit. So we mostly get 2 big guys punching each other in the face. Not quite the level of Show/Taker, but enjoyable as fuck nonetheless.

About 4 minutes into the match, just as Undertaker gets back in control, he signals to his random druids (who are they, where do they come from, how does any of this make any sense?) and they bring out 2 caskets (because the RR match is already a casket match apparently, so this match is to hopefully get it changed to something else as Heidy is terrified of caskets). Heidy runs like a bitch, but manages to tag Heyman in first. You can guess where this is going. Tombstone. Heyman thrown in a casket. And... somehow Undertaker wins the match by placing Heyman in the casket. Even though it wasn't a casket match. What?

Fun way to spend 8 minutes or so in total. She did this thing with her index finger and my... wait, wrong text document. Fun way to spend 11 minutes, including entrances.


*The Undertaker Vs Rene Dupree - Smackdown 03/02/2005*

This is a #1 contendership tournament match leading into No Way Out. I just looked at the brackets for the tournament and I am very confused by the whole thing. Big Show faces JBL for the title, but he isn't in the tournament. And wasn't the Show/JBL match announced at the RR? Oh wait, this is a tournament to lead to a final match at No Way Out to determine the #1 contender to the WWE championship at WrestleMania, right? That would make sense as Angle and Cena are in it and they have a match at No Way Out and Cena wins and goes to WM and faces JBL.

Just realised that the next match after this is NOT another tournament match... so Undertaker doesn't win this one? Lame countout loss no doubt, probably interference from the people he faces over the next few weeks. Ah well, he might not be winning, but hopefully he fucking murders Dupree. What kind of moronic cunt face liked Rene Dupree? 

TWINKLE TICKLER. PONY PANTS COLE. Ahh the genius that was Tazz on commentary. Oh look here comes Mark Jindrak and Luther Reigns. He would sort of randomly pointlessly feud with them before going into WM against Orton. Undertaker murders the French Tickler, but the distraction from the outside people allows Rene to actually get some offence in. Doesn't last long. Luther has such a weird head. Looks like a model head from the early Create-A-Wrestler days. All square and pixel-y with a buzz cut and generic facial hair.

Dupree gets some leg work in on Undertaker. He joins an elite club of just about every Undertaker opponent ever. His biggest achievement ever.

Dupree goes for a cover. WHAT A MAJOR UPSET THIS WOULD BE... but not right now. Vintage Cole. Taking lessons from some Vintage Vince commentary. 1, 2, ITS ALL OVER, no.

THAT'S NOT A FUN FACE RIGHT THERE BY THE UNDERTAKER.

Oh hey, Undertaker with the triangle choke. I always liked that more than Hells Gate tbh. Pisses me off when morons confuse the two and claim Undertaker has been using Hells Gate since like 02. Dumbarses.

Double countout thanks to Luther square head and Jindrak. Aside from the terrible finish this was a solid contest. Dupree gets a Tombstone afterwards too. Another career highlight for the pathetic French Tickler. Fuck you, Dupree fans.


*The Undertaker Vs Mark Jindrak - Smackdown 17/02/2005*

So the video for this starts right at the end of a Luther promo (the best time no doubt). YOU COME TAKE IT BACK was all we got. Then Undertaker comes out and Mark Jindrak has to face no doubt a pissed off Dead Man. I know I would be pissed if someone said YOU COME TAKE IT BACK too. Luther is dressed like he's gonna wrestle, which is odd. Why be half naked for no reason? Perve. He was in a suit when he interfered in Undertaker's match with Dupree, but this time he decided to strip to be at ringside?

Always love the spot where the referee runs for his fucking life after trying to break up Undertaker's attack on an opponent. The ref leaps out of the ring, Jindrak takes a beating, and even Luther gets taken out on the outside, all within the first minute of this match.

Ok, I get the reason behind this match; Luther is facing Undertaker at NWO, so Jindrak is gonna try and soften up 'Taker. But why the fuck is the match happening in the first place? Why are these two guys feuding with Undertaker to begin with? I cannot for the life of me remember. Did it all just start during that tournament? They are Kurt Angle's boys at this time, and maybe Angle wanted Undertaker out of the tournament to help make sure HE wins instead? Seems possible, but surely Undertaker would then go after Angle at some point, right? Never happened (not complaining since we got the awesome Orton series and then in 06 we got 2 awesome matches with Angle).

Not too much to this one. Undertaker dominates, Jindrak gets some offence in, Undertaker wins, Luther attacks Undertaker after the match, Undertaker no sells the attack, Luther looks scared. Wish Jindrak got the PPV match over Luther instead, he looked half decent in this.


TO BE CONTINUED WHEN EVER THE FUCK I CAN BE ARSED.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Seems as though through reading this thread I'm in the minority here but I didn't actually mind Henry/Cena too much. It was logically booked. Yes, nobody wanted to see Henry tap-out and Cena no-sell as usual, but I enjoyed Henry's performance in the match, which made sense considering the size difference between the two men.


It was very logically booked and I have no problem with things being logical and even predictable but this type of thing plateaued with Cena a LONG time ago. You're sitting there thinking to yourself, 'They aren't really going to do this again are they....oh wait, he tapped, what a shock.' It's beyond tiresome. Always building somebody up, making them look like a threat and in this case Henry brought it and looked a million bucks in this feud and then in a flash it's all gone, Cena triumphs and we're back to square one. I was expecting a little more from this match given the awesome hype heading in than what we got; a standard Cena gets man handled for 90% of the match and wins with little offence. There was nothing special about it for me and I found it disappointing. I also have no interest in seeing a rematch now. The heat is gone.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

I watched the PPV w/ friends so I wasn't paying total attention but I dug Cena/Henry a lot. Managed to rewatch the SD MiTB and WHC match this morning and they were both fine without being spectacular. SD ladder match was totally saved by Rhodes being awesome towards the end but I saw the finish coming after the way Sandows being treating Rhodes leading into this ppv. Somebody mentioned it but Del Rio exposing the knee brace to do a superkick is superdumb for reals. Not Payback levels and it took a while to get good but Dolph is finally not boring me as much in the ring now he's a babyface (aka he can actually play to his strengths. finish was bad but whatever). Either way I'm happy b/c face Cody and hopefully world champion Sandow. No strong feelings towards Orton winning tbf. it _could_ be alright. I probably need to rewatch Cena Henry but beyond it not finishing w/ the FU I did think it was a **** level match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Trying to obtain front row seats for Summeslam. :hb


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> *WWE bores the shit out of me right now*


RIGHT ON! Fuck that lame Daniel Bryan push.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I was loving Cena/Henry live and marked big time for the WSS but when Cena locked in the STF I knew it was up. When I watched it back it wasn't half as good as the first. It's not something I'll be going out of my way to see again any time soon.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

henry/cena was great for what it was, some ppl are just over-analyzing it. Just thought to myself this cena's argueably best (definitely singles)ppv match since Brock er 12 

Does anyone have a gif or something of orton's reaction to winning, :lmao :lmao out how emotionless he was


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The 12th Man said:


> RIGHT ON! Fuck that lame Daniel Bryan push.


I'm not going to like you, am I?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Isn't that his character though? Stoic as fuck?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:cena2 and rton2 to have a Summerslam Trilogy!!!!!!!!! 07, 09, 13. 

:vince3


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Totally baffled with the lack of love for Henry/Cena. Fuck the commentary, the STF was the right thing to do.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

oh shoot been wanting to see Taker vs Dupree again for the longest time. That shockingly got a good bit of time behind it, iirc. I LIKED DUPREE, CAL. He's no Undertaker, but he was cool.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I'm not going to like you, am I?


My bad, keep watching forgettable Undertaker TV matches from years ago while I enjoy watching Bryan Danielson put on great matches and get a substantial push.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Dupree was the fucking man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> oh shoot been wanting to see Taker vs Dupree again for the longest time. That shockingly got a good bit of time behind it, iirc. I LIKED DUPREE, CAL. He's no Undertaker, but he was cool.


I know you liked Dupree. Hence I made such a big thing about only complete cunts would like him .

And Bryan getting a push is pretty much the ONLY thing I enjoy in WWE atm. They've either ruined everything else or just made no effort with the other shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Program vs Cena when he mattered = :mark:

Well then, Big Cal/Z - Calzone, even, _(get it?)_ you know me all to well.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*Henry/Cena was quite good, but the ending left a sour taste in my mouth.

edit:



redskins25 said:



Does anyone have a gif or something of orton's reaction to winning, :lmao :lmao out how emotionless he was

Click to expand...











rton2*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Program vs Cena when he mattered = :mark:
> 
> Well then, Big Cal/Z - Calzone, even, _(get it?)_ you know me all to well.


Well when you have hot passionate sex with someone as often as we have, you get to know them .

Wait, it was YOU, right? Might have been Mike. Probably Mike. His Texan accent makes my knees all weak.

I don't like wishing injuries on wrestlers, but isn't Orton due a shoulder injury about now? Seems a while since he had some trouble with it. ANYTHING to get away from a potential Orton/Cena match. Wouldn't surprise me if they gave Bryan a big push, beat Cena for the belt, only to have Orton cash in, take the title, turn heel and have everything be about him again leaving Bryan with no direction once more. The prospect of Orton being WWE champ and Sandow being WHC makes me wanna smash my face into a nail.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Callamus said:


> The prospect of Orton being WWE champ and Sandow being WHC makes me wanna smash my face into a nail.


:agree:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton/Cena would make me puke. Even the idea is frightening. They have very on-off chemistry in the ring and their feud itself wasn't that good anyway. The only way I'd potentially accept the feud is if Cena turns heel and Orton's the face this time around, which would create a very different dynamic. However that obviously won't happen.

Counting down the days until Sandow wins the WHC.

If Sandow doesn't win the World Title for some reason, either he loses the briefcase before it or loses his cash-in, as much as I marked yesterday I'm gonna be pissed off ten-fold... and that's saying something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Well when you have hot passionate sex with someone as often as we have, you get to know them .
> 
> Wait, it was YOU, right? Might have been Mike. Probably Mike. His Texan accent makes my knees all weak.
> 
> I don't like wishing injuries on wrestlers, but isn't Orton due a shoulder injury about now? Seems a while since he had some trouble with it. ANYTHING to get away from a potential Orton/Cena match. Wouldn't surprise me if they gave Bryan a big push, beat Cena for the belt, only to have Orton cash in, take the title, turn heel and have everything be about him again leaving Bryan with no direction once more. The prospect of Orton being WWE champ and Sandow being WHC makes me wanna smash my face into a nail.


I drink a lot on the weekends. You're my type. I'm sure it's happened more than once, tbhayley. :hayley1

With the luck atm, Orton will remain healthy for a long time. Meanwhile Cesaro will probably break his leg in four places tonight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sandow should go into hiding for a month and return as Idol Stevens in a surprise cash-in. Facial hair all shaved, looking like the goofball that he can be. A full-on comedy World Champion.

And Orton/Cena part XXXV is still exciting for me even if both have regressed since then.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

STEVIE SWAG said:


> Btw, have they ever made a documentary on Hunter's career before or is this the first one?[/B]


The Triple H: The Game DVD released in 2002 had a documentary but is was a bit before they started doing really indept docs.



Smith_Jensen said:


> Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come:
> 
> 
> *Disc 2*
> ...


8 of those matches are post-his 2001 injury and only 5 are pre-injury with only 3 of them being from his post-99 'roided up phase when he was a great heel. That sucks. Baffling as to why the Jericho Last Man Standing match isn't on there, HHH won that match afaik.


CM Punk posted this pic of his head on Twitter:










Ouch!


----------



## Berbz (Jun 24, 2013)

The only way I'd be behind Sandow as champion is if he ditched that horrible gimmick he has and got a bit more serious, he is very solid on the microphone and passable in the ring, it makes up for it. He needs to be a bit more aggressive, I always thought I saw a potential bit of Triple H in Sandow when he was in FCW before the whole smart gimmick, he is a natural heel. 

But Sandow/Rhodes WHC feud? It's something different indeed then seeing the likes of Sheamus, Big Show, del Rio etc. all after it all the time. Orton as WWE Champ? It's not like I'd mind, I just hope it means no Cena/Orton matches/feuds and it's strictly just a way to get a potential Orton/Bryan match for the WWE title at Rumble or Mania or something.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MITB ratings: 

Shield/Usos: **3/4
SD MITB: ***1/2
Ziggler/Del Rio: ***3/4
Cena/Henry: ***
Ryback/Jericho: ***
Raw MITB: **3/4

Fucking marked out at that Orton rko on RVD at the end and Orton winning. CALLED IT! Wonder when he'll cash in though, perhaps after mania?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That reminds me (the pic of Punk's head), just how many guys got busted open at MITB last night lol? Seemed like 2 or 3 guys in each ladder match at least .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

If Sandow changed his gimmick, I'd still be pissed. His gimmick is awesome and the best in the WWE today and is a serious gimmick if handled that way. I wouldn't mind seeing a more intense and serious version of what he currently is (actually, that's what I'm hoping for) but to drop the intellectual savior thing would be idiotic and make him another generic heel.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> It was very logically booked and I have no problem with things being logical and even predictable but this type of thing plateaued with Cena a LONG time ago. You're sitting there thinking to yourself, 'They aren't really going to do this again are they....oh wait, he tapped, what a shock.' It's beyond tiresome. Always building somebody up, making them look like a threat and in this case Henry brought it and looked a million bucks in this feud and then in a flash it's all gone, Cena triumphs and we're back to square one. I was expecting a little more from this match given the awesome hype heading in than what we got; a standard Cena gets man handled for 90% of the match and wins with little offence. There was nothing special about it for me and I found it disappointing. I also have no interest in seeing a rematch now. The heat is gone.


I suppose it depends what you went into the match expecting to see. At no point did I harbour even the slightest belief that Henry walked out of there with the title, so all I wanted to see was him live up to what he said by giving Cena a beatdown and looking like a legit badass, which, to his credit - I felt was achieved. Plus, the crowd reaction was a moral victory if nothing else. If you said a decade ago that Henry would have gotten that reaction from a crowd in fucking Philadelphia you'd have been sent to the madhouse.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come:
> 
> *Disc 1*
> 
> ...


Thoughts on the match listing:

*Pros*

-Awesome little gem to see a match against Steamboat. I had no idea that even happened. Even if it's only a 4-minute squash, that's still cool.

-FINALLY the Iron Man match with The Rock. Long overdue. Kind of makes me want to get the 25 Greatest Rivalries DVD so I could have their Backlash match to complete the series (I already own WM 2000 and the Best of King of the Ring.)

-Nice extra the match against RVD. I've always wanted to see that match.

-I actually got rid of my Royal Rumble 2004 DVD hoping that the lms match would be included on this set, and my gamble paid off. Between their match in 12/03, the WM and BL 3-ways, and Hell in a Cell, this completes my collection of their 2004 series.

-I completely forgot he had a match with Flair in 2006. I would have also like the 2002 match, or the Career Threatening match, but this actually works as the last match in their 2005 series.

-LMS against Randy Orton. About damn time. They should have included the earlier match, too.

-Non-title against Jeff Hardy...I actually remember that being good.

*Cons*
It seems to skip over entire segments of his career. And while there are a lot of great matches here, they could have added a fourth disc and included more. I would have liked to have seen:

-the six-pack challenge from Unforgiven 1999, where he won back the WWF Title.

-his last match with The Rock in 2002.

-the first rematch with Batista. He looked very strong there and it's never been released outside of the event dvd.


Other than that, it's a great listing. Definite buy for me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Arnold Tricky said:


> I suppose it depends what you went into the match expecting to see. At no point did I harbour even the slightest belief that Henry walked out of there with the title, so all I wanted to see was him live up to what he said by giving Cena a beatdown and looking like a legit badass, which, to his credit - I felt was achieved. Plus, the crowd reaction was a moral victory if nothing else. If you said a decade ago that Henry would have gotten that reaction from a crowd in fucking Philadelphia you'd have been sent to the madhouse.


Crowd was bananas and really added a big fight feel to the match for sure. Fantastic atmosphere. I don't really know what my expectations were tbh. I was was excited to see them lock up but I don't know, it just fell a little flat when I watched it back and wasn't half as enjoyable. I've seen Cena in that predicament before and while Henry's performance was good, it wasn't extraordinary or memorable for me. In the end it just turned out to be a normal Cena vs. Monster match I guess.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> That reminds me (the pic of Punk's head), just how many guys got busted open at MITB last night lol? Seemed like 2 or 3 guys in each ladder match at least .


Orton's nose was bleeding, RVD was busted open above his head and lastly, Punk was bleeding heavily after the last ladder shot. From the other match, I can only think of Cody being bloody.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Why won't they put the Fully Loaded 2000 match on DVD?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Probably saving it for LAST MAN STANDING: The Compilation or something stupid like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> Why won't they put the Fully Loaded 2000 match on DVD?


Wouldn't be surprised if it was for some stupid reason like this:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Awesome Trish vs. Lita Last Woman Strapping Match there C2D.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Have you ever rated a match then watch it a year or two later and realize your rating was way off?

I watched the Raw 2011 MITB earlier and have it at ***3/4. I checked my records and I had it at *** before. 3/4* is a decent size difference in opinion.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*WWE Money in the Bank 2013*

The Shield vs. The Usos - ***1/2
WHC Money in the Bank - ***3/4
Curtis Axel vs. The Miz - **1/2
AJ Lee vs. Kaitlyn - ***
Chris Jericho vs. Ryback - **1/2
Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler - ****
John Cena vs. Mark Henry - ****
Money in the Bank All-Stars - ****

Fun PPV


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Awesome Trish vs. Lita Last Woman Strapping Match there C2D.


Haha, it sure is but the main reason I posted that pic can be found around the titantron area. Surprisingly enough, that pic is from the Attitude Era DVD.



Dark Church said:


> Have you ever rated a match then watch it a year or two later and realize your rating was way off?
> 
> I watched the Raw 2011 MITB earlier and have it at ***3/4. I checked my records and I had it at *** before. 3/4* is a decent size difference in opinion.


Has happened to me a few times. First match I remember is Orton vs RVD stretcher match. First time I saw it was a year or two ago and I was completely bored by it. Rewatched it a few weeks ago and it was much better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Benoit reasoning may actually be legit when you think why Jericho vs H from Fully Loaded won't be added...


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^Amazing. Every single time.

Speaking of Rumbles, finished 2008 right now. I underrated the glorious heavens out of the Rumble match itself on that show. It's great. So much entertainment peppered through it. Favorite part is still with Piper. Only reaction to come close was Cena's awesome shocker return. Piper & Snuka slugging it out while Punk is sitting down with a mega smile on his face - surreal.

Orton vs Hardy still might be my favorite WWE Championship match during all of 2008; only the No Mercy match can trump it. Good GRIEF what emotion. Orton was really good in it, of course, but it was Hardy's story that gave it that extra stretch into that "something special" territory for me. There was a point where Orton fiddled with his championship, got it knocked out of his hands and eventually dropkicked Jeff to the outside, forcing Hardy to fall right beside the gold. Looking as if it's so close, yet so far from being "his". King make that point on commentary too and it's brilliantly spot on. Something magical like that being done out of random hoopla is what you want to happen in each match that's dubbed as big. What a story and what a match. Finish will never or could never be done any sweeter. I'm gushing. LOVE.

K, No Mercy vs Triple H can probably have it beat, but either way Hardy made both those big matches feel larger than life. By the end of the year he was more than deserving of holding the top prize.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> Posted this elsewhere, but fuck it;
> 
> *Lesnar/Punk*
> If anyone's seen Warrior, the match should be like the penultimate fight of the film. The one with Brendan going against Koba.
> ...


I would absolutely love it if their feud went like this.

Also, Cody Rhodes was AWESOME last night. Can't emphasize that enough and I really hope he gets his time to shine.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Hardy from RR 08 is awesome. One of my favorite parts is when Jeff dropkicks Orton on the outside and it looks for a second as if Orton's head has been separated from his neck because it hangs sideways by the barricade. That image cracks me up every time.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

*My thoughts on MITB 2013:*


So I just finished watching this show, i was going to watch it live but couldn't be arsed to stay up. It seems that I made the correct decision, Andre wins again...


*MOTN*

The WHC MITB match was a fun opener with some zany spots. It might have lacked a bit of realism in places but it was an entertaining opener regardless of some moments that really tested the suspension of disbelief. On that subject, I didn't actually hate the idea of Ambrose skinning the cat on the ladder because 'Team Zeb' holding the ladder made some sort of sense when they ended up dumping Ambrose out, chucking him from that height would definitely cause more damage than hitting him with the ladder from point blank range without any momentum, anyway. What actually ruined the spot for me was Ambrose ballsing up his first attempt, made the spot look even more contrived that it should have in the first place. 

Team Zeb were definitely the highlight of the match for me, Cesaro in particular. Swagger's team work for the greater cause did more to make me feel invested in his character than his previous work in the past three years combined. Great to witness a little story like that in a MITB which is stereotypically a cut throat every man for himself type deal. Cesaro's upper cut on A.Nother (I forget who, doesn't matter who, Cesaro mattered) after A.Nother jumped from the ladder? Oh my days. I never cease to be amazed at how he can dead lift basically everybody with a gut wrench either, what a man. Yes, I'm fully on Team Zeb now.

Other points of interest included Barrett acting like a Feral pikey with the ladder rung, as well as Cody's mini flurry which worked the Philadelphia crowd into a frenzy. It's amazing how Rhodes can evolve from a meat and potatoes dullard into a very animated bloke that you wouldn't mind buying a pint for when he's given something that's just a little bit interesting to work with, this was another example of that. Seeing him get pumped up like an adhd kid at Thornton's during Easter weekend with his overly generous Grand parents supervising him proved that he has something else in his locker that we're not usually allowed to view. I really enjoyed the whole undashing saga, even the short lived Big Show humiliation angle was fun. The fact that WWE are obviously high on the guy while still seeming apathetic towards the idea of actually giving him some consistently good material to work with is an odd paradox.

As for Sandow winning. Yeah okay, I can live with that. He's very good with his delivery on the mic and isn't a total bust in-ring wise, although he could improve in that department. For me his biggest issue is being taken seriously as a legit main event player. Now, I know that the WHC isn't a "legit main event" title, but it is a stepping stone to that, so now would be the time for him to evolve. I'd like to see him take on some sort of 'mind games' type deal where he fucks with his opponent's heads by making them doubt themselves, sort of like he's on the Sean O'Haire tip but without the devil's advocate stuff, an evil psychologist (without stereotyping him as an actual psychologist). While we're at it, change that fucking music as well, nothing screams "mid card forever" louder than that. Have him come out to the 'crystal maze' theme, possibly a beefed up version, that would suit the vibe. Everybody else would probably fucking hate that, but I'd love it and there's norfolk'n'chance that I'd let that deter my vision. The other gimmick option would be to have him work a demon headmaster gimmick, but then after some consideration even I thought that would probably be a bit too ridiculous, regardless of the the PG strong WWE environment that would suit it. *Wagg* would probably love it too for obvious reasons and we don't need to see *Sandow_Rocks* anytime soon :side:


*Not bad but could have been much better, despite shining character work*

*Ziggler/ADR* was solid but lacked the oomph of their payback scrap, the double turn and the story of sell master Ziggler's concussion being exposed by a ruthless Del Rio obviously heightened the previous affair. I was taken aback by how face like Dolph came across during his entrance, heavily straight/macho adult male disillusioning gyrating aside. Yes that's a conundrum, grown straight men who pay to watch other half naked men roll around for a couple of hours might _actually_ find that awkward. Maybe they don't, but that's my theory as to why HBK was never a big draw, Pat Patterson vicariously living out his dreams and all...back on topic, I liked the fact that Dolph interacted with the crowd by using the Hogan style finger points, smiling without being forced and cheesy (hello Sheamus) while also managing to maintain some of the cockiness that he had before without being repelling as a face. Being the face during a match obviously also suits him far better than being a heel because he can bump and sell like a loon. I would talk about ADR's personality, but he doesn't really have one. Boom, tish.

As for AJ's involvement in the match? Meh. I don't really have a problem with it, Del Rio was obviously going over so he needed to win, meanwhile Ziggler had just turned face so he couldn't really afford a clean loss. With the recent turn it would be advisable for Dolph to finally make it on his own, so this sowed the seeds for his split from AJ. All in all, it didn't bother me, even if the whole situation was so incredibly blatantly obvious. What I did have a problem with was AJ's music blaring out during the match when she made her entrance. Honestly, it's 2013 and WWE still have to pull dumb, awkward, out of place shit like that. What's wrong with her coming out without music during a match? The scenario was more distracting than it needed to be and for me it derailed the match, even if only ever so slightly. Call me Tom Petty.

*Henry/Cena* wasn't as bad as some are making out, nor did I feel that it was ****+ like others were suggesting, IMO. Really it was a basic but solid match with a simple structure that was padded out by Henry's mannerisms and calculated aggression. Mark looked like a T-Rex toying with a frightened lawyer in an Isla Nublar rest room during his initial control segment, and I like Dinosaurs, so deal with it. Honestly, I was pleased to see Cena actually show some respect to an opponent for once by selling their offense with the required realism. Well, for the most part anyway. Like others, I do agree that the "can Cena lift him?" guff knocked the realism down a peg or two. We're talking about a man who has AA'd Big Show with ease many times and even performed the feat fairly recently. I mean, fuckern warz, Cena once had Show _and_ Edge on his back at Mania XXV, even if only for a moment. Stop being patronising cunts please, WWE. Tapping out at the end? Yeah, that can fuck off too. Bad asses don't tap, unless they do, like Henry did. If you're going with the lifting angle then stick with it for better or worse and have Cena do his overcoming the odds schtick with an AA finish, but if you have to end by submission have Henry stay in the hold for an age before passing out because he refuses to tap. Yes he's a heel, but he's not a geek like the Miz (yeah he's a face now, but I still hate the fucker), he's Mark fuckern Henry.


*Huge disappointment of the night*

The Raw MITB was a load of dry saggy old gash, without trying to be too blunt. When RVD is afforded the most time to get over in a match which involves DB and Punk you know that there are more apparent problems than Jay-Z can handle, regardless of bitches. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed some of Van Pensioner's leaps down memory lane because I was a teenager in the late 90's/early 2000's. Sometimes nostalgia can be fun, but there was just too much of it in place of moments from others who deserved and needed the time far more than RVP (not the footballer). 

Sheamus is like the anti-Ultimate Warrior for me, between the bells ringing he's good, but outside of match time I just couldn't give a fuck. Maybe that's why I'm not so high on his in-ring work as other are, it takes me an age to care about him during matches, especially when he's working with somebody else that I _couldn't_ (hello *Shep* :side care less for. Yes, I'm talking about Christian. Good talent, but WWE have done nothing to make me care about this guy at all, so when he tangled with Sheamus during an early portion of the match I just switched off, coincidentally it seemed to kill the atmosphere in the arena too. 

After that meeting dissolved the match just seemed to fall apart and lose any flow that it might have had before. There weren't any logical/naturally building segments in the middle portion of the match, the only occurrence that pulled me in was DB's spaz out. It's a shame that the best thing about the match was Heyman's heel turn, even though it was a bit Zippy and Bungled due to Orton "accidentally on purpose" setting the spot up by leaving the table in the ring for no fucking reason at all, other than to blatantly set up a spot, obviously. Still, Heyman's expression when he betrayed Punk was outstanding, the bloke is legit the best "proper actor" in the WWE. 

Going back to orton...in a kayfabe sense his behaviour in the match was genius, basically disappearing for the whole time before stealing the win. Fuck it, if wrestling was real and I was in a MITB match I'd hide in the crowd while all of the other gumps clobbered seven shades out of each other, you can't get counted out! Take a bow, Randy. That RKO at the end was rather spectacular too. If this victory leads to an Orton heel turn and upgrade in character work then I'll be fine with this result. I know that many people were clambering for Bryan to win, but he has already done the MITB winner's gig before. In fact, judging by weekly crowd reactions I reckon that DB might just be ready for a proper put over in a Mania "main event" WWE title match by someone who's fully established. There's only one option for the 2014 Royal Rumble winner's spot in my mind...


*Other random thoughts*

Kofi Kingston is shit at everything. Fuck off with your overly nice persona, dick weed. They could have even had some nonce like Darren Young take his place and it would have meant that my girlfriend wouldn’t have had to ask why I was loudly calling my computer an arsehole.

WWE missed an opportunity to make an awkward call back moment between Vickie and Show after that video highlight's reel that was played by Backstreet Boy #3. No wonder Vickie liked Show, he has fingers the size of bratwurst.

*Seabs* should have taken my chatbox advice in regards to lumping a load of cash on Ryback :mike

Despite this year's disappointment, I think that MITB might have moved into second place as "most important WWE ppv", in my eyes, anyway. The fact that I've felt the full on hype for the past three years says it all.


*Fuck off, I don't care*

Can't even be arsed to write the names down. Process of elimination, people.


*TL;DR:* MITB = 5/10


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm surprised so many people were bothered by 'Can Cena lift Henry?' Are you bothered by two guys like Austin and HHH having a blood feud and running each other over with cars and them being a tag team three months later? Were you bothered when Cena failed to lift Umaga in the LMS despite the fact he'd lifted the much larger and heavier Big Show three years earlier (and probably in 2006 as well)? Seems like a weird thing to be irked by. Maybe the WWE shouldn't have built the match around that, but is it seriously SO unbelievable that Cena would, after a massive beating, fail to lift a 400 pound man? It's not like this was a completely fresh Cena trying for the AA - he'd gotten his ass whipped for the first bunch of minutes of the match.

I also didn't see it as a standard WWE finish stretch and I am really critical of standard WWE finishing stretches.



> Truth be told, I noticed all of the stupidity of last night and chose to ignore it for personal gain. Ambrose skin the cat spot for example. I liked how it was different and shit, but why would Cesaro & Swagger hold on? Pretty just b/c they knew they could chuck him to the outside. K, fine, I'll take it.


Yeah I see people calling the skin-the-cat spot stupid and I don't get it. We the People were just waiting for him to get up there so they could chuck him to the outside, it's not like Ambrose actually grabbed the briefcase. Ambrose kinda took too long getting up there and it would have been better with a more athletic guy, but it wasn't a horrible spot at all. JBL did stain it a little, but that says more about the commentary than it does the spot itself.



The Lady Killer said:


> Trying to obtain front row seats for Summeslam. :hb


Bring signs :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ziggler/Del Rio was awesome!

And I love the idea of Big E/Dolph.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ziggler/del rio was awesome and just as good as last night

Im very upset right now, my sister told me she was about to get me tickets for tonite raw but didnt know if she could go also


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

I've just been conditioned by the WWE to believe that Cena can lift anyone in any situation, personally, not speaking for others. I accept your point about WWE switching up shit on a rapid basis, but WWE has worked hard to develop a conception that Cena has super human strength, barring a couple of miscellaneous examples. As for Cena being worn out causing him to have strength problems, 99% of the time that's not an issue for him at any stage during a match, regardless of how much offense he has taken :side:. Horses for courses though. 

What annoyed me more was the fact that they teased the story without giving it a proper conclusion, either have Cena finally hit the AA or have him properly wear down Henry so that the STF comes across as being legitimately effective. I just can't buy a guy like Henry tapping out that easily, especially given the way that the WWE has used him in the past two years. I still enjoyed the match though, the little niggles didn't ruin it, but it definitely could have been better, which is a more of a compliment to Cena/Henry than a disservice really.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't care if Ziggler and Del Rio wrestle the same kind of match, these two hit it out of the park every time! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

THE DARK ANDRE said:


> As for Cena being worn out causing him to have strength problems, 99% of the time that's not an issue for him at any stage during a match, regardless of how much offense he has taken :side:. Horses for courses though.


That's not even a good thing and something I would put in positive of Cena/Henry. If Cena having NO strength problems and lifting guys too easily is wrong and 'supercena'-ish, then what is Cena having strength problems and not being able to lift someone? It would have been way, way, way worse and more SuperCena-ish if he had lifted Henry on first go. I can't imagine people going 'yep, worn down Cena lifted fresh Henry on first attempt, now that's realism!' Would Cena lifting Henry first try really have been better just because he's been able to lift that much weight before? Should Cena lift everybody on the first go no matter who it is? Cena finally shows a little vulnerability and I'd think people would like that instead of saying he's so Superman-like at this point that he shouldn't struggle at anything. I really don't understand. His opponent being broken down as the match goes on helps the fact he was able to lift that much, too.

Also for whoever said this (IDR I SUCK), Cena hasn't 'easily' lifted guys like the Big Show at any point I can remember. He's always made it seem like an uphill battle that took a crapton of strength to pull off. Maybe I missed something but I would be surprised if there was any point where Cena lifted a guy like that 'with ease'. 



THE DARK ANDRE said:


> What annoyed me more was the fact that they teased the story without giving it a proper conclusion, either have Cena finally hit the AA or have him properly wear down Henry so that the STF comes across as being legitimately effective. I just can't buy a guy like Henry tapping out that easily, especially given the way that the WWE has used him in the past two years. I still enjoyed the match though, the little niggles didn't ruin it, but it definitely could have been better, which is a more of a compliment to Cena/Henry than a disservice really.


Maybe I'm misreading the first sentence but Cena did hit the AA. I totally agree I don't think Mark should have tapped if that's the story they're going with, though. Still I don't think he looked weak. And honestly Cena summons ALL of his strength to hit the AA after the possibility he CAN'T and Mark kicks out, so trying for it again might be suicide. I can see why they thought the STF was a better way to go, and from a kayfabe sense a safer way for Cena to go. He thought, if he hits the AA, the match would be over. It wasn't, so he needs his next best move. Maybe Mark shouldn't have kicked out, but if he didn't then that AA would have been the only pin/submission attempt Cena got on Henry, which would mean Mark would look weaker by kicking out of nothing and also escaping out of nothing. The STF being pulled out before the AA is another way to go, but then the "Cena Can't Lift Henry" thing is a bit ignored....which is what they built the match as, so they can't really ignore it. It was pretty much what they should have built the earlier parts of the match with. The more I think about it and mash my keyboard like a shithead the more I think I like the way they went with the match. 











this creeps me the fuck out. 





What's happening on Raw, PEOPLEZ? I like the sound of another Zigg/Del Rio. What's happening with Henry? Is Cesaro wrestling? A Shield/Usos re-match would be cool. What have they done with Bryan? Any chance Orton forfeited the briefcase and/or retired? :side:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah1993, you're probably gonna love what they have in store for Mark Henry. The Shield attacked Mark Henry tonight which is mostly likely gonna be a feud for Mark Henry over the Summer. Interested to see how they'll handle this program.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got no problem with a face/tweener Henry. He was still good as a face in the past.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't _reallllly_ want him to turn face if that's the way they're going but it's better than pushing him down and watching him do nothing.

Plus, Henry v. a bunch of heels sounds kinda exciting. Henry v. Cesaro and Reigns could be great slugfests (Henry is amazing at selling the spear so :mark, and I would adore watching a guy like Rollins be his bump freak-self for Henry's clubbin. Plus if the Big Show is still a heel then there's the possibility to bring that up again. And for some reason Henry/Sandow sounds awesome to me. Probably because I', picturing Sandow being scared and dickish and conniving. 

Yeah I'm fine with THIS


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck this Heyman/Punk promo is unreal.

Promo of the year, by far. I honestly can't think of anything that came close to that segment.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

So yeah....Punk/Heyman/Lesnar is segment of the year and this feud is going to be absolutely incredible.

Holy shit, that was amazing.

Legitimately in awe of how great that was, that's what happens when you put a couple of incredible talents together and just let them go to work


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That's the best segment since the Punk/Vince contract signing July '11, imo. Maybe even better than that.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> That's not even a good thing and something I would put in positive of Cena/Henry. If Cena having NO strength problems and lifting guys too easily is wrong and 'supercena'-ish, then what is Cena having strength problems and not being able to lift someone? It would have been way, way, way worse and more SuperCena-ish if he had lifted Henry on first go. I can't imagine people going 'yep, worn down Cena lifted fresh Henry on first attempt, now that's realism!' Would Cena lifting Henry first try really have been better just because he's been able to lift that much weight before? Should Cena lift everybody on the first go no matter who it is? Cena finally shows a little vulnerability and I'd think people would like that instead of saying he's so Superman-like at this point that he shouldn't struggle at anything. I really don't understand. His opponent being broken down as the match goes on helps the fact he was able to lift that much, too.


That's not really the point though. Yes, in a logical world Cena would sell like he did in that last match all of the time, but the point is that it doesn't fit in with the standards of his character that WWE have routinely presented to us. I'm not saying I don't want to see realism in wrestling, I'm saying that it's completely out of character for someone who has routinely taken beatings against monsters before shrugging off the effects and powering up. In that one off instance it was so out of the blue that I just didn't buy it, again, in that one off moment. What if he showed that vulnerability on a consistent basis? Sure, fuck it, that would be marvelous, but for me it didn't align with how Cena has been presented for the best part. He could start to show that side on a far more regular basis, but we all know that he won't, which is why it felt like WWE shoe horned it in. This is not about me saying that I desire to see a lack of realism on a regular basis, you're confusing two different things here. Maybe it's a difference between how we view wrestling, I just tend to get sucked into how the wrestlers portray themselves character wise over the long term, so Cena having a struggle with Henry took me out of it a bit.



Yeah1993 said:


> Also for whoever said this (IDR I SUCK), Cena hasn't 'easily' lifted guys like the Big Show at any point I can remember. He's always made it seem like an uphill battle that took a crapton of strength to pull off. Maybe I missed something but I would be surprised if there was any point where Cena lifted a guy like that 'with ease'.


I've seen him lift Edge and Big Show combined without a real struggle and he's picked up guys the size of Henry cleanly at the first attempt on many occasions. In that sense it is with ease because it's not something that he's always had to attain via several attempts, although I accept your point about selling the struggle despite my point not really referring to that in any way.



Yeah1993 said:


> Maybe I'm misreading the first sentence but Cena did hit the AA. I totally agree I don't think Mark should have tapped if that's the story they're going with, though. Still I don't think he looked weak. And honestly Cena summons ALL of his strength to hit the AA after the possibility he CAN'T and Mark kicks out, so trying for it again might be suicide. I can see why they thought the STF was a better way to go, and from a kayfabe sense a safer way for Cena to go. He thought, if he hits the AA, the match would be over. It wasn't, so he needs his next best move. Maybe Mark shouldn't have kicked out, but if he didn't then that AA would have been the only pin/submission attempt Cena got on Henry, which would mean Mark would look weaker by kicking out of nothing and also escaping out of nothing. The STF being pulled out before the AA is another way to go, but then the "Cena Can't Lift Henry" thing is a bit ignored....which is what they built the match as, so they can't really ignore it. It was pretty much what they should have built the earlier parts of the match with. The more I think about it and mash my keyboard like a shithead the more I think I like the way they went with the match.


Nah, I think that's my fault for not being clearer. I assumed you would get what I meant by "proper conclusion", as in when he finally managed the AA I hoped that it would finished the match seeing as that's what they were building towards, my fault for not providing clarity.

No, he certainly didn't look weak when you sum up the match as a whole, but I just didn't like the idea of someone like him tapping in that way, it just didn't fit in with his character. Again, I think you're over looking my actual point in terms of how they finished the match. It doesn't bother me that they finished with the STF (which I said was on okay alternative route, if done well), even at a stretch I can deal with Henry tapping, but I just would have liked to have seen Cena really grind Henry down to the point that you think that even he couldn't possibly take anymore. It just seemed a bit flimsy to me. Still, a good match and more than fitting as a penultimate slot filler, but I just didn't enjoy it as much as you. Nowt wrong with that though, although I would have preferred to have seen it (and the whole ppv) as great


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Best segment since the Punk contract signing in 2011. CM Punk did something that Triple H couldn't do in a year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Best segment since the Punk contract signing in 2011. CM Punk did something that Triple H couldn't do in a year.


Seriously, I thought just about all of that Lesnar/Trips feud was awful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I gotta say this was an awesome segment. Heyman on the mic was unreal and the MVP of the segment. Punk did pretty well for himself as a face even though him fighting back against Lesnar just doesn't look believable one bit. Their match needs disqualifications turned off with some weapon use because that's the only way Punk can look credible. I didn't realize just how huge the size difference was until now. 

Calling it segment of the year wouldn't be wrong at all. It was great throughout.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Fuck.

That segment.

Fuck, man..


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Heyman/Lesnar segment was amazing. Everything thing was awesome. The beginning part with Punk just calling out Brock/Heyman, the Heyman part, the Punk response saying he'd take down Heyman and then the brawl (which was really more of Brock kicking Punk's ass) all were excellent pieces individually that combined to make that segment, build the Punk/Brock stuff and give us an opening for Punk/Heyman after Brock leaves with what Punk said. He'll probably feud with Axel after Summerslam, which would be disappointing but I could live with it for the sake of the Punk/Heyman feud.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Good match but damn too long I think..


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Not the cleanest match in the world but I thought RVD/Jericho was lots and lots of fun.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Solid match between Jericho/RVD. Certain parts of the match were a little sloppy and it dragged on a bit but it was still a good back and fourth between the two.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RVD/Jericho was decent, but I gotta say based on the comments in the Raw thread, I feel like I was watching a different match or at least a different crowd. Crowd seemed dead to me yet I'm seeing people saying how great the crowd was.

Anyway, ratings for the following three matches from tonight:

Orton/Fandango- ***
RVD/Jericho- ***
Ziggler/Del Rio- ***1/2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

YES YES YES


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So far for Summerslam it's:

Punk vs. Lesnar
Bryan vs. Cena for the WWE Title?

Oh fuck yeah!


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Bryan vs. Cena will be a great match. The feud will suck though.

That's the downside to Bryan. He's so plain. He has no depth to his character at all, he still just looks like a joke. A buildup just consisting of him yelling "yes" to Cena's face doesn't interest me. It'll only go downhill from there if he tries to cut a promo with John.


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Bryan vs. Cena will be a great match. The feud will suck though.
> 
> That's the downside to Bryan. He's so plain. He has no depth to his character at all, he still just looks like a joke. A buildup just consisting of him yelling "yes" to Cena's face doesn't interest me. It'll only go downhill from there if he tries to cut a promo with John.


But how do you know that though? You're already calling it awful without even seeing it and don't even know what is going to happen ffs, they just start feuding. I've never said Ziggler's or Del Rio's feud/matches/reigns would be horrible because i didn't like them. Sure, i didn't want, but i went into the whole thing optimistic, and i actually quite enjoyed them even though i dislike them.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

$osa said:


> But how do you know that though? You're already calling it awful without even seeing it and don't even know what is going to happen ffs, they just start feuding. I've never said Ziggler's or Del Rio's feud/matches/reigns would be horrible because i didn't like them. Sure, i didn't want, but i went into the whole thing optimistic, and i actually quite enjoyed them even though i dislike them.


I also don't know the match will be great because I haven't seen it yet, either. That doesn't mean I can't lay down a prediction based on what I know. I'm a fan of both Cena and Bryan, but I'm being realistic about the program. I see it only being another Cena feud, with a guy who has nothing to offer other than a crowd chanting "Yes."


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

- Awesome inclusions for the 2009 Summerslam matches, *ATF*, but damn I'm not a fan of that Savage/Warrior match. Hate all the interference and overbooking, killed any momentum they had imo.

- Two matches made for Summerslam and I'm already buying. Don't even care what else they put on there, it could be Miz vs. Barrett, Axel vs. Sin Cara, Brodus Clay vs. Ryback, and Jericho vs. Khali and I'D STILL BUY IT! :lol

- Triple H match listing looks rather fucking good. I'm definitely buying that without any hesitation. Great choices Paul. (Y)



Choke2Death said:


> WWE MITB - ★★★½
> - Loved it on second watch. Did everything it had to with RVD doing the SPOTZ, Sheamus bumping around, Bryan with the adrenaline rush and Orton being the sneaky winner who didn't participate in very much. Punk also served his purpose with Heyman finally turning on him. Also liked it when he tossed the briefcase away as everyone was fighting on top of the ladders to make sure no one would get it. Great MITB and nowhere near "worst". The ending was just the perfect touch to make it memorable for me. It blows my mind that people are underwhelmed and think Orton is "bored" because he was mostly expressionless. I get that you don't like him but did you honestly expect him to jump around and hug the briefcase while running circles around in the ring? *It's not part of his character to act like that, so the celebration was suitable*.


That's his problem though, the character. It bores the hell out of me (and a lot of other people as we know). He either looks stupid, bored, unmotivated, or like a fucking retard half the time. At times he'll show flashes of greatness but damn it Randy, CHANGE SOMETHING!!! If Daniel Bryan had won the exact same way as he did last night, I think it would've looked pretty damn stupid as well. Not just hating on Orton btw.



The 12th Man said:


> My bad, keep watching forgettable Undertaker TV matches from years ago while I enjoy watching Bryan Danielson put on great matches and get a substantial push.


:lmao Look at this guy, pickin fights when he just got here. Clearly knows nothing about Cal.



Dark Church said:


> Have you ever rated a match then watch it a year or two later and realize your rating was way off?
> 
> I watched the Raw 2011 MITB earlier and have it at ***3/4. I checked my records and I had it at *** before. 3/4* is a decent size difference in opinion.


It's happened to me on a rewatch in a 24 hour span.  HHH/Lesnar from Mania this year went from ** 1/2 all the way up to ****.


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I also don't know the match will be great because I haven't seen it yet, either. That doesn't mean I can't lay down a prediction based on what I know. I'm a fan of both Cena and Bryan, but I'm being realistic about the program. I see it only being another Cena feud, with a guy who has nothing to offer other than a crowd chanting "Yes."


But it seems as though you have your mind already setup up that this is what is going to happened without a doubt and you're not going in with a mindset that this could possibility be good. I mean, come'on now, we all go into matches sometimes wondering if it would suck or not, but it seems as though you made you're mind this is going to suck.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Raw was absolutely awesome. Enjoyed the matches from Orton/Fandango to Ziggler/Del Rio as well as Jericho/RVD. Plenty of good segments too.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> That's his problem though, the character. It bores the hell out of me (and a lot of other people as we know). He either looks stupid, bored, unmotivated, or like a fucking retard half the time. At times he'll show flashes of greatness but damn it Rany, CHANGE SOMETHING!!! If Daniel Bryan had won the exact same way as he did last night, I think it would've looked pretty damn stupid as well. Not just hating on Otyon btw.


Hey, I'd much rather he goes back to being the Legend Killer or at least have that type of attitude but with what I'm getting, I try to get the most out of it. I wish he would stop cutting his hair and shaved that beard consistently but it seems like he's too stuck in his Viper-ish ways and as a fan, I don't want to hate just because his character limits his talents.

And of course Bryan doing Orton's stoic celebration would have been stupid, but it's because he's known to run around yelling "YES!" every time he wins a match or something else.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

$osa said:


> But it seems as though you have your mind already setup up that this is what is going to happened without a doubt and you're not going in with a mindset that this could possibility be good. I mean, come'on now, we all go into matches sometimes wondering if it would suck or not, but it seems as though you made you're mind this is going to suck.


I haven't made up my mind on anything, don't be so sensitive. I'll be watching the program, and I'll see whether or not it'll prove me wrong. I'd love for it to. I'm just envisioning it in my head, and I don't think it can be any good.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> RVD/Jericho was decent, but I gotta say based on the comments in the Raw thread, I feel like I was watching a different match or at least a different crowd. Crowd seemed dead to me yet I'm seeing people saying how great the crowd was.
> 
> Anyway, ratings for the following three matches from tonight:
> 
> ...


IDK, it may be because my headphones are messed up, but it sounded like the crowd was into parts of the match. There was a 'This is awesome' chant.

IMO, the match was okay/good. It wasn't terrible like some people were saying, but it wasn't MOTYC either. RVD seemed more motivated than when he was in TNA, but he's still old and gets tired easily in the ring, so there were parts of the match that were sloppy. The dude is basically Sabu but with a better name value and larger nostalgia so more people give him a pass.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Picked up Satan's Prison used for a few bucks.. stars for all dem EC's? Top 5 for me?


----------



## TheViper323 (Apr 27, 2010)

Just got History of the IC Title and Volume III of the WrestleMania Anthology in the mail today. Watching WrestleMania XIV right now. Seems like a fun event so far. 2 matches in.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Picked up Satan's Prison used for a few bucks.. stars for all dem EC's? Top 5 for me?


New Year`s Revolution 2005
Elimination Chamber 2010 (Smackdown)
Elimination Chamber 2011 (Smackdown)
No Way Out 2008 (RAW)
No Way Out 2008 (RAW)

Not a fan of the original anymore.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™;21182873 said:


> Picked up Satan's Prison used for a few bucks.. stars for all dem EC's? Top 5 for me?


Going by what's actually _on _that set:

Survivor Series 2002 - **** 1/2
New Year's Revolution 2005 - **** 1/4
No Way Out 2008 (RAW) - ****

I have lots of other ones at *** 1/2 due to there being a good bit of downtime from not so great participants. December to Dismember and NYR 2005 are the two worst at the ** mark.

2011's Smackdown Chamber & this year's version are also both **** for me.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

RVD/Jericho gets ***3/4 from me and I regret nothing. Awesome match to main event an awesome Raw.

Two probable MOTYCs already set for SummerSlam. :mark: :mark: :mark: So pumped.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Best segment since the Punk contract signing in 2011. CM Punk did something that Triple H couldn't do in a year.


I actually was prepared to post exactly this while watching the show and I was scared that it would seem too exaggerated, guess not. :lol Fucking immense segment.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

How did Bryan get the shot? WHY DID ORTON WIN TH BRIEFCASE!?


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

bryan won the shot bcuz he was the most over

anyways i give rvd/jericho 7 stars


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bryan wins the title, Orton takes it immediately afterwards.

Worst thing they can possibly do and they're going to do it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah it wouldn't shock me. I mean they'd have to give Bryan the win over Cena and I don't see that happening clean anyway so is HE going to turn? The title feud could be Bryan/Orton after that with Orton as a heel instead but I don't give a shit. I'm not even as excited as most for Bryan/Cena so shove Orton in there somewhere and interest rolls down the hill. If they do a three-way at any point I will bomb McMahon HQ. I hate three-ways to the point where there is no combination of three people I actually would like to see in a three-way together.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Bryan wins the title, Orton takes it immediately afterwards.
> 
> Worst thing they can possibly do and they're going to do it.


How would Bryan beat Cena? I doubt they have him beat Cena clean. 

For RVD's first singles match back, he hit very nicely. I think the Cutis vs RVD feud may just happen.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Top 5 Chamber matches, imo:

2005
2009 Raw
2008 Raw
2011 SD
2010 SD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Maybe Bryan's ABOUT to win, only for some Orton shenanigans to ensue which results in Randy getting the belt somehow?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> IDK, it may be because my headphones are messed up, but it sounded like the crowd was into parts of the match. There was a 'This is awesome' chant.
> 
> IMO, the match was okay/good. It wasn't terrible like some people were saying, but it wasn't MOTYC either. RVD seemed more motivated than when he was in TNA, but he's still old and gets tired easily in the ring, so there were parts of the match that were sloppy. The dude is basically Sabu but with a better name value and larger nostalgia so more people give him a pass.


Ouch, man. Comparing Robbie to Sabu? Maybe it's just me but I consider Sabu to be one of the worst wrestlers there ever was.

He can have fun spots and such but he was garbage. I've always viewed RVD as an enjoyable wrestler.

Also:

Bryan/Cena
Punk/Lesnar
Ziggler/Big E
Rhodes/Sandow

Take my money, WWE.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

I don't get why people think Bryan beating Cena cleanly is so impossible, but they might just be looking at it straight up. I think he'll win clean but not really _convincingly_. Something like the Bulldog/Bret roll up finish or a bridging german suplex pin out of nowhere.

Anyway, I wouldn't book Orton winning the briefcase or cashing in on Bryan but I won't get that upset about it. It'll just make it a bigger moment when Bryan finally does legitimately win the title after all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Not impossible, but who other than the Rock and HHH have beaten Cena clean since the beginning of, say, 2010? Or even 2008? You maaaay be able to argue Punk but I almost wouldn't. Even then Punk had way more surrounding him than Bryan does. I won't be convinced WWE are that into Bryan until something equivalent of that happens. I'd honestly be surprised if they did with Bryan what they wouldn't with Punk.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I just don't want Cena and Orton again.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Not impossible, but who other than the Rock and HHH have beaten Cena clean since the beginning of, say, 2010? Or even 2008? You maaaay be able to argue Punk but I almost wouldn't. Even then Punk had way more surrounding him than Bryan does. I won't be convinced WWE are that into Bryan until something equivalent of that happens. I'd honestly be surprised if they did with Bryan what they wouldn't with Punk.


Did Batista beat him clean when he got the injury?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed, Summerslam 2008.

Catching up on MITB now and I'm at Cena/Henry. Twas a fan of the Del Rio/Ziggler match as I'm completely feeling this PPV so far, hope Cena/Henry delivers like I'm hoping it will. 

Swagger/Cesaro Vs Shield POTENTIAL = :mark:


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Random but Justin Gabriel came out to Otunga's entrance theme at MITB 2011. I was quite amused by this.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Dark Church said:


> Random but Justin Gabriel came out to Otunga's entrance theme at MITB 2011. I was quite amused by this.


lol it belonged to him first. I thought it was decent theme. Worked for him, then Otunga took it. Don't know what he comes out to now.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't usually like back an forth WWE babyface matches but I just watched Bryan/Christian from SmackDown and they nailed it. It was a like a combination of selling, timing and transition spots just put it all together and despite the back-and-forthyness, nothing really seemed useless or blown off in a stupid way. Could have used more post-spear selling from Bryan but really, really, really minor complaint. Honestly thought Christian looked every bit as good as Bryan and I wish he would just get a feud with Cesaro. Even on Main Event or something, IDC. At least one twelve minute match? Match was fucking good and I thought it smoked all of the Bryan/Ortons.



swagger_ROCKS said:


> Did Batista beat him clean when he got the injury?


Oh yeah, forgot about that.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Bryan wins the title, Orton takes it immediately afterwards.
> 
> Worst thing they can possibly do and they're going to do it.


Fantastically effective heel turn for Orton though. He gets good reactions from all sections of the crowd and that is a sure-fire way to turn everybody against him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, perhaps it was the nostalgia goggles I decided to put on, but RVD vs Jericho was 

Orton to "go heel" by cashing in on Bryan makes no sense. Orton does that heel BS weekly and he's still supposedly a face. How can you turn him heel when he acts like one as it is?

CODY RHODES. Yeah, that was fantastic tonight. Went ape.

Obligatory hyperbole comment even though that's what it looks like atm: WWE is kind of killing Dolph Ziggler. Del Rio feud seems to be on the backburner so he can do shit with AJ. Oh boy. As if this hasn't been done with AJ and other dudes prior.

Cracked me up how WWE rigged their own thing to have Usos win a match. Even though the other two selections already wrestled on Superstars before RAW began. Real smooth operating in shoving a team no one cares for down our throats. At the expense of Cesaro & Swagger too. Yikes, WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After Heyman said to Punk "You can't beat Brock Lesnar", I am convinced IMO, that Punk will indeed beat Brock at Summerslam.

As long as its done in the right way I guess, im in two minds who should win, despite Brock's part time-ness, they both have cases.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Raw was fantastic this week. Having the crowd decide was a pretty strange way to set up Cena/Bryan, but hey-ho, it was fun to see every wrestler get booed because the crowd wanted Bryan. Cena's reaction to Orton getting booed was particularly funny, and he seemed to enjoy Sheamus getting a poor reaction quite a lot. I'm not sure what direction they'll take Cena/Bryan, but Summerslam is already stacked with only 2 matches on the card. Thank Christ on a bike they didn't go with Bryan/Axel.

The Shield beating down Henry might just be the best beatdown they've ever done. There's something really intruiging about a face Henry doing WHAT HE DOES.

Wyatt, Wyatt, Wyatt. THE EATER OF WORLDS. What a fucking promo. "You are not the truth we seek". Harper had a couple of cool moments as well, but Bray Wyatt, man. Bray Wyatt.

RVD/Y2J was a pretty fun, functional match; nothing outstanding but a good outing from RVD. Better than almost his entire TNA run. The other matches were fairly solid as well. 

Ziggler/ADR have a good track-record at hand. The matches are getting a little watered down past Payback but they're still solid. Not surprised to see Ziggler burnt with the AJ/E crap but these are the days. Would've much rather seen Dolph finally overcome ADR at SS but I guess more ADR is what's in the cards. SHOCKER.

Punk/Heyman/Lesnar hit it out of the park. Not only 'it' but everything. What a fantastic segment. Heyman was gold as usual, Punk played his part, and the brawl was immense. This segment highlights exactly why this feud will work so well. Punk can do what Hunter struggled with so greatly; play an effective fucking babyface.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

One of the best Raw's of the year, that's for sure. Maddox as GM is going to be hella fun I reckon, he's a natural on the mic and is just enjoyable to watch with his awkwardness. Bray Wyatt hits it out of the park as I expected, this guy has got all the tools to be huge. Only 26 as well so tons of time ahead of him. Will be interesting to see where they go with this Kane angle, I'm sure once it's complete Wyatt will move onto slightly bigger things quickly. RVD/Y2J and Ziggler/ADR were both good. The crowd was strange for the RVD match, dead one minute and then "this is awesome" chants the next. It was a little sloppy but fun to watch. Ziggler and Del Rio work really well together and this was no different. Very surprised Ziggler isn't getting a rubber match at Summerslam though, I thought the endgame of this feud was for Ziggler to finally win the title back after Del Rio's shenanigans? That might still be the case I guess, I think the Big E/AJ vs Ziggler feud will be soild though.

Shield attacking Henry is interesting, not quite sure where they're going with it yet and it seemed a rather random segment but I have faith that all those guys can create something special. The 'main event' sucked really since it was just Cena hosting a wrestler popularity contest basically, but we're getting Bryan/Cena so who cares. I think the feud will suck since they'll probably revolve it around the Bellas and not have Bryan get particularly serious, but still the match should be great.

And of course Punk/Heyman/Lesnar in probably the segment of the year. Just captivating stuff all the way through, Heyman is pure gold on the mic and Punk was his usual awesome self. Lesnar's beatdown was good, this feud and match could be the best stuff we see all year.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I haven't made up my mind on anything, don't be so sensitive. I'll be watching the program, and I'll see whether or not it'll prove me wrong. I'd love for it to. I'm just envisioning it in my head, and I don't think it can be any good.


He's a Bryan mark, they're crazy sensitive. The feud will be terrible, the match however has the potential to be really great but I just don't care about these two. 

Other than a mild interest in Lesnar/Punk, there's nothing interesting me on the Summerslam card. Ziggler looking like shit on RAW again by losing to Del Rio again and then getting throw aside to feud with his former bodyguard is lame. (N)



JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> IDK, it may be because my headphones are messed up, but it sounded like the crowd was into parts of the match. There was a 'This is awesome' chant.
> 
> IMO, the match was okay/good. It wasn't terrible like some people were saying, but it wasn't MOTYC either. RVD seemed more motivated than when he was in TNA, but he's still old and gets tired easily in the ring, so there were parts of the match that were sloppy. The dude is basically Sabu but with a better name value and larger nostalgia so more people give him a pass.


The match was good and was MOTN for me. 

:lol at comparing him to Sabu. RVD's miles better.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Preferred ADR/Ziggler to RVD/Y2J but Van Dam definitely looks better than he ever did in TNA. Whether he can consistently keep it up is another thing but I certainly don't mind what he's done. Raw was very fun, Summerslam has a lot of potential. Usos/Shield/Cesaro&Swagger in a tag title match would be fun. I want to see Cesaro toss Rollins about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry vs Shield segment was one that left me torn. Loved it for what it was and those involved. The afterglow of it I was left wondering if this means Henry is down to go as a face. He makes a fine face and I like him in that territory too, however, we're not going to sweep under the rug the fact that Henry's best stage of his overall appeal is when he's a beast heel and demolishing people without a care b/c that's what he do(es). Doing it as a face...hmm. We'll see. I have faith in him. That's the best way I can put my optimism out there.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

RVD V Y2J Raw 2013 ***3/4

Apparently according to BIG DAVE this was all called in the ring so the parts that didn't flow well were probably down to them telling each other what they were going to do. But this was a really fun tv match. Both guys got all their cool shit in, the crowd popped for all their spots, RVD still hits a splash better then anyone in the biz. cool counters, cool match.

So far so good for RVD's comeback. Hoping for RVD V CM Punk or RVD V DB in the near future.

On topic of RVD. What your favourite RVD matches?


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Bryan/Cena should be brilliant, I think the build will be OK as long as they make Bryan 'take' it to Cena in reference to being the champion and proving hes better and so on. If they just make it a feud with Bryan 'happy to be here' with a friendly tone it'll suck. 

I don't get the Orton hate, he's been out of the WWE Championship picture for close to three years! the idea of Bryan/Cena taking each other to the very limits (Bryan's not beating Cena) only for Orton to pick up the scraps is great storytelling in my book. I suspect the match at Summerslam will have a non clean finish with Cena winning but logically were Bryan clearly deserves the rematch for NOC where Orton cashes in with both down and out, ( I can't see Bryan pinning Cena at any point).

That Heyman/Punk/Lesnar Segment though!:dazzler

definitely best of the year. Im glad the story is is going like I hoped. I think this needs to fully culminate to WrestleMania, Heyman making Punk suffer for the foreseeable is the route to go with Punk questioning whether he really is anything without Heyman. 



YoungGun_UK said:


> Depends really, I think that story works wonders even with Lesnar winning, again with the theory of Rock not returning CM Punk winning the Rumble to _force_ his way back into the Championship picture with Lesnar becoming WWE Champion around the same time leading to a Lesnar/Punk II with Punk looking to dethrone Heyman and Lesnar and once again become WWE Champion to solify hes _The Best in the World_
> 
> The whole angle of Punk doubting himself with Heyman reinforcing that he's nothing without him would be awesome.


Summerslam is looking STACKED

Punk/Lesnar
Cena/Bryan
Ziggler/Big E
Cody/Sandow
Wyatt/Kane

those are either confirmed or very likely.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Not sure how I feel atm about Bryan just being chosen by Cena. Bryan is my favourite wrestler in the entire universe and it obviously isn't like he hasn't earned a title shot. I just feel like winning mitb and then cashing it in in a straight up match with Cena would have ruled and been pretty perfect.

Fuck it what am I really complaining about. Bryan Danielson is wrestling in the main event of fucking Summerslam against John Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^watch as Brock vs Punker will go on last.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Lesnar and Punk will definitely go on last. 

I also think that's why while Bryan/Cena will be good I can't see a definitive finish happening as well as saving some spots for NOC, were it will main event that PPV and be what sells the show.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Shepard said:


> I want to see Cesaro toss Rollins about.


Alex is that you? 8*D

I'm fine with Henry/Shield. Henry will only suffer if they have him play his 2010 happy go lucky babyface character. Given the way he was presented last night, slowly removing his jacket and trash talking the Shield like only Henry can, I had no complaints. Its entirely possible to have him portray the wise cracking tough SOB heel character opposite The Shield in a brief program, before being shoe-horned opposite a babyface immediately afterwards. Has nice potential with The Shield doing to Henry what he's been doing since his resurgance in 2011.

Anyways, RAW thoughts:

DEL RIO EXPOSED THE KNEEPAD AGAIN FOR A SUPERKICK. WHY GOD WHY?

Punk/Heyman/Lesnar was brilliant. Heyman was this sleazy and vile creature swamped in a sea of hatred from the crowd and Punk had this great pissed off demeanour without straying into an exaggerated and comical facial expression. Whole bit about Punk being estranged from his family and essentially driven to be the best in WWE because he has no-one else was really sinister to gain Heyman heat but make Punk look like this champion of the people at the same time. Loved the portrayal of the Lesnar/Punk brawl. Punk believeably gets overwhelmed with Lesnar's brutality but puts up enough of a fight to look respectable.

Del Rio/RVD for Summerslam? Ziggler/Langston is a lock for now I'm guessing (been rumoured for a month and the assault likely indicates the match happening) and Sheamus is about the only other face available. I guess its fresh even if an RVD singles match interests me as much CHIKARA interests McQueen.

Sandow loses the first night after becoming Mr MITB. Feck sake. Perfect opportunity to have him win a close contest and then gloat but oh no because equal booking is the wave of the future. Uggh. Problem with that is that now if Cody loses to Sandow he looks worse having been unable to defeat someone who loses often enough, as opposed to falling short to someone having a resurgance. Cody was over again albeit in two adult markets, be interesting to see how he fares in casual crowds. Wish they'd had Sandow cheapshot him as opposed to Cody beating the crap out of him without technically breaking any rules. Ah well.

Not sure what to make of Cena/Bryan just being decided by Cena. I guess in a way it can work as basically giving Bryan that one night in the spotlight to prove his worth, but I see Seabs' point that Bryan winning MITB and then interrupting Cena at the end and announcing he's cashing in working just as well. Still, it was amazing to see Bryan in the opening segment and at the end be the clear choice of the audience and his entrance was amazing. That cut away to the crowd going ballistic looked like something you'd see out of a WWE video package celebrating their rich history and biggest moments. I pray to all that is holy any reported Bella involvement is nixed to maybe one backstage segment, but alas I would not put it past them.

Wondering if Bryan being chosen also advances the McMahon angle. Vince has made on air comments voicing his disapproval of Bryan (I think) and the whole HHH/Steph 'Vince won't like who we think Cena will pick' might be the catalyst for Vince's return and the next stage of wherever this angle is going.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its all great in all with dbryan getting the title match

But wwe Cont. to FUCK ziggler, why are u just throwing the del feud away and have a pointless match on raw now ? Give him the belt and get it off that chasmstic black hole . Vince you have a STAR that's red hot with this turn fuck aj


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> On topic of RVD. What your favourite RVD matches?


Agreed completely with what you said about the Y2J match. Now to answer this question;

vs Eddie (Backlash)
vs Orton (Armageddon and Raw 12/1/04)
vs Benoit (SummerSlam and Raw from July 02)
vs Cena (One Night Stand)
vs Edge (Vengeance)

There are probably some 01 & 02 stuff that I need to check out too. Most notably the ladder match with Eddie.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So, Raw was pretty awesome last night.

-Orton/Fandango was a solid opener. 
-Hot crowd throughout
-Brad 'The Great' Maddox
-Heyman GOATing 
-BROCK
-Y2J/RVD was super fun. Sure, RVD looked gassed but when's the last time the guy went 20 minutes in a singles match? He definitely gave 110% effort.
-Bryan being over as fuck


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

It's interesting to see RVD motivated again. Like someone else mentioned, I'm not sure how long it'll last, but it's nice to have another veteran in the middle of the card, for as long as he is motivated.

Although it begs the question; if he's still capable of wrestling to this level (w/ Y2J), why on earth did he spend that entire TNA run shitting on his own legacy?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Raw, and really enjoyed it, though I honestly wouldn't have minded if Bryan had won a number one contender's match to get the title shot. 

Punk/Heyman/Lesnar was gold. Just gold. Look forward to what's to come. 

Jericho/Van Dam was really fun. 

Bryan/Cena will certainly be great, but curious to see how they finish.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I think they'll have Bryan "earn it" by VKM coming back scolding Maddox and putting Bryan in a tough match or something.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES (VI):*

*25. Randy Orton vs Edge - Raw, 30 April 2007*











*24. Rated RKO vs DX - New Year's Revolution 2007*











*23. Evolution vs Mick Foley, Chris Benoit, Shelton Benjamin & Shawn Michaels - Raw, 12 April 2004*











*22. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Edge - Backlash 2007*











*21. Randy Orton vs Christian - Smackdown, 6 May 2011*











*20. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - Raw, 16 August 2004*











*19. Randy Orton & "Cowboy" Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket Match) - No Mercy 2005*











*18. Team Bischoff (Randy Orton, Scott Steiner, Mark Henry, Christian, Chris Jericho) vs Team Austin (Shawn Michaels, Rob Van Dam, Booker T, Bubba Ray, D-Von Dudley) - Survivor Series 2003*











*17. Evolution (Randy Orton, Batista & Ric Flair) vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge (Elimination Match) - Raw, 14 June 2004*











*16. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - No Way Out 2006*











*15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker - SummerSlam 2005*










*14. Team Smackdown (Randy Orton, Bobby Lashley, JBL, Batista & Rey Mysterio) vs Team Raw (Shawn Michaels, Chris Masters, Kane, Big Show, Carlito) - Survivor Series 2005*











*13. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown, 13 January 2006*











*12. Randy Orton vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 21*











*11. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels - Survivor Series 2007*










*Click Here to See 100-86*
*Click Here to See 85-71
Click Here to See 70-56
Click Here to See 55-41
Click Here to See 40-26*​


Spoiler: list



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
49. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
46. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
44. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012 
43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
40. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
39. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
38. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
37. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
36. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
35. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
34. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
33. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
32. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
31. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
30. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
29. The Royal Rumble Match – Royal Rumble 2009
28. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
27. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
26. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005
25. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 30 April 2007
24. Rated RKO vs DX – New Year’s Revolution 2007
23. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin – Raw, 12 April 2004
22. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels – Backlash 2007
21. Randy Orton vs Christian – Smackdown, 6 May 2011
20. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Raw, 16 August 2004
19. Randy Orton & Cowboy Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005
18. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin – Survivor Series 2003
17. Evolution (Orton, Flair & Batista) vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Jericho – Raw, 14 June 2004
16. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – No Way Out 2006
15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005
14. Team Smackdown vs Team Raw – Survivor Series 2005
13. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 13 January 2006
12. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21 
11. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 2007


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES. The 2006 SD Mysterio match is going to make the top 10, glad to see it get some love and this is going to be GREAT I'm sure as always.

Just watched the Brock Lesnar/CM Punk/Paul Heyman segment last night and all I can say is WOW. When the brawl between Brock & Punk was going on I had GOOSEBUMPS as CM Punk knows his role as the underdog and knows how to play it fucking WELL. I'm convinced that the Punkster & Brock are pretty much made for each other after seeing how they approached last night's segment and I can't think of the last time I was legitimately interested in a match as much as I am for this one. 

Cena/Henry was MOTN from MITB on Sunday BTW, but I was really impressed by the opening ladder match & Dolph Vs Del Rio as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> YES. The 2006 SD Mysterio match is going to make the top 10, glad to see it get some love and this is going to be GREAT I'm sure as always.


You're in for a bit of a surprise then. And I'm not suggesting that the match wont make the list because that should not even be debated. I was going back and forth between that Rey match and another one that I wont give away for the spots they were going to receive and in my last watch from a couple of nights ago, the Rey match held up to an extent, just not enough to get the higher spot.

Got any guesses for the other matches? I'll give one hint: Rey aside, one other TV match appears.



> Just watched the Brock Lesnar/CM Punk/Paul Heyman segment last night and all I can say is WOW. When the brawl between Brock & Punk was going on I had GOOSEBUMPS as CM Punk knows his role as the underdog and knows how to play it fucking WELL. I'm convinced that the Punkster & Brock are pretty much made for each other after seeing how they approached last night's segment and I can't think of the last time I was legitimately interested in a match as much as I am for this one.


Have to agree to a point. My interest for the match raised tenfolds after that segment. Punk is starting to win me over. Aside from lackluster matches since his return, he's been on point with his mic work and last night is the best I've seen from him since 2011. Heyman was the MVP for that one, though. And to my surprise, Punk really looked like a pretty good underdog face in that brawl even if I'm still rooting for BRRRRRROOOOOOOOOCK LEEEEEEEESNAR!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Matches that will make your top 10?

Vs Foley, Vs Cena (NWO), Vs Mysterio (SD 2006), Vs Benoit (SD 06 & SS 2004), Vs Christian (SS 11 & OTL 11), Vs Undertaker (HIAC), Vs HHH (No Mercy 2007). That's nine out of 10 right there .

I ADORE both guys to the point that they're the only two people I'd even consider to be over HHH on my favorites list at times, so I could*n't* really care less as to who wins as Punk continues his blockbuster year working the biggest matches in the company while Lesnar gets to fuck shit up. I'm going KAYFABE with this one, rooting for Punk to overcome, and just having a blast with it I think.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jesus C2D, are you the biggest fan of that Orton/Christian Smackdown match out there?  *** 1/4 for me.

Favorite RVD matches:

Ladder Match vs. Christian
An ECW match against Sabu from like '96 or something
Hardcore Heaven vs. Jerry Lynn
Invasion vs. Hardy
Armageddon '03 vs. Orton

I probably forgot some I'm sure.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Matches that will make your top 10?
> 
> Vs Foley, Vs Cena (NWO), Vs Mysterio (SD 2006), Vs Benoit (SD 06 & SS 2004), Vs Christian (SS 11 & OTL 11), Vs Undertaker (HIAC), Vs HHH (No Mercy 2007). That's nine out of 10 right there .


Pretty impressive. Now it's all about finding out the rankings! (and the tenth match) 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Jesus C2D, are you the biggest fan of that Orton/Christian Smackdown match out there?  *** 1/4 for me.


★★★★ imo. I'd say Christian is tied with Undertaker at #2 for Orton's best opponent with the Wolverine snatching the top spot like he always does.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching the rhodes/rey series

you forgot nyr 05 KOK :hbk2 thats his 10th


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Punk is starting to win me over.


Who are you and what have you done with C2D?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Have the Top FORTY THREE Mark Henry Singles Matches ranked & shit, just need to do a little write-up thingy here and we should be good to go later tonight depending on what I'm doing. 

SPOILERZ: A Primo match is on the list.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Fantasy DVD concept from me



> History of the WWE Championship Vol. 2
> 
> The Man That Made the WWE Championship
> 
> ...


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Two great matches on Raw last night

Orton/Fandango - ***
Y2J/RVD - ***1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> you forgot nyr 05 KOK :hbk2 thats his 10th


You got it! So now my entire list is known, just not the rankings. Will add some descriptions for each match too so the top 10 truly feels like stand-out material.



The Sandrone said:


> Who are you and what have you done with C2D?


I killed him! 

But seriously, with Orton getting a push again, I just feel much nicer about everything. Besides, I've always given credit where it's due. Plus looking at annoying trolls who try to play a similar role (specially that annoying Bryan hater who's trolling his marks in every thread), I can finally see just how annoying I was being as a poster and I'm above that type of shit.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

How was Umaga/Triple H from Cyber Sunday 2007?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for the sake of it, I'll throw my Top 5 Raws of the year so far:

1 - Post-MITB
2 - Post-Payback
3 - Post-WM
4 - 1st Raw of the year
5 - ME Bryan vs Orton
HM: Go-home MITB

2013 has had pretty good TV quality tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is the Punk/Heyman/Brock segment on YT yet anyone know? Tried looking but keep coming across reviews.

Thx


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Is the Punk/Heyman/Brock segment on YT yet anyone know? Tried looking but keep coming across reviews.
> 
> Thx


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...we-raw-july-15-2013-part-3_sport#.UeWhLLU2iKI


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Bryan has the potential to became the facial point of the WWE, come Summerslam he'll be outpopping Cena on a humongous scale. Vince may finally realize. Believe in the beard.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I went from not really giving a shit about current WWE for the last few months to having a blast watching Raw this week and actually looking forward to a PPV (SS duh) for the first time in a long time. Bryan Vs Cena :mark:. Punk Vs Lesnar :mark:. Might actually order it and watch it live.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Right now, I'm calling Bryan-Cena as the *slightly* better match. Taker may be returning too, probably against The Shield (with Kane). They are kinda falling into a state of irrelevancy, so a match against these two, and possibly a win, would definitely rocket up their statuses on the roster.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...we-raw-july-15-2013-part-3_sport#.UeWhLLU2iKI


Thx bud


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fluze said:


> Right now, I'm calling Bryan-Cena as the *slightly* better match. Taker may be returning too, probably against The Shield (with Kane). They are kinda falling into a state of irrelevancy, so a match against these two, and possibly a win, would definitely rocket up their statuses on the roster.


I was thinking an Undertaker/Kane Vs Shield match would happen, but with Kane being taken out by the Wyatt family it doesn't seem like its gonna happen now. Plus I *think* I read that Undertaker was injured (again) during his Shield matches so he probably won't be returning. Likely a rematch against the Uso's and something for Ambrose and the US title (Christian please). Maybe even Henry. OH MY GOD HENRY VS AMBROSE.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I was thinking an Undertaker/Kane Vs Shield match would happen, but with Kane being taken out by the Wyatt family it doesn't seem like its gonna happen now. *Plus I *think* I read that Undertaker was injured (again)* during his Shield matches so he probably won't be returning. Likely a rematch against the Uso's and something for Ambrose and the US title (Christian please). Maybe even Henry. OH MY GOD HENRY VS AMBROSE.


Damn, should of excluded that table spot from the beating. Anyways, I still have hopes. Maybe, even Taker/Kane/Henry vs. The Shield? Kinda weird though, Henry would look out of place, but his size as like the other two would make up for it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I watched the Mick Foley documentary earlier and it was great. I think it was one of their best.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Well I went from not really giving a shit about current WWE for the last few months to having a blast watching Raw this week and actually looking forward to a PPV (SS duh) for the first time in a long time. Bryan Vs Cena :mark:. Punk Vs Lesnar :mark:. Might actually order it and watch it live.


Better late than never.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

As much as it would be good to see them, I don't think they need Taker and/or HHH to work Summerslam this year. Cena/Bryan and Bork/Punk should be and are (imo) more than enough to keep them going. Last year without Bork/Game the card was a piece of shit and looked like a Raw. But if they manage to keep doing what they've been doing for the next month, both the undercard and 2 top matches will have a considerable amount of story and hype heading in. 

Cena/Bryan
Bork/Punk
WHC whatever it is
Sandow/Rhodes
Ziggler/E
Shield match
Ambrose/US match
Wyatt Match
IC/Axel Match

Lots going on there in comparison to last year which blew chunks outside the main event. I think they already have Summerslam sold tbh. There's no real point throwing Taker or HHH in there. Save one or both of them for later in the year when they'll actually probably need them to pop a buyrate.

I'm definitely getting it. I already was with Lesnar on the card but the confirmation of Cena/Bryan just sealed the deal. Should be great.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The 12th Man said:


> Better late than never.


You do know he's a mod, right?


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Fluze said:


> You do know he's a mod, right?


I didn't realize that I'm on the clock at work, having to be especially courteous to those higher in the food chain.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The 12th Man said:


> I didn't realize that I'm on the clock at work, having to be especially courteous to those higher in the food chain.


And those who have the ability to diminish your interactive usage of this site, but whatever. Do yo' thing girlfriend.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The 12th Man said:


> Better late than never.


Yep. About time WWE made an effort to put on a good show. Will likely suck next week.



Fluze said:


> You do know he's a mod, right?


And this matters because?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Callamus said:


> And this matters because?


The tone, in which he addresses your posts?


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Yep. About time WWE made an effort to put on a good show. Will likely suck next week.


Name me a bad PPV this year. You're hopping on the bandwagon when the direction has been tremendous and promising for quite some time already.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bad PPV this year? RR. NWO (aside from 2 matches). Haven't seen any others in full except WM (which was decent overall). I'm "hopping on the bandwagon" in the sense that last nights show was the first one I've enjoyed in ages and they've finally given me a reason to look forward to something that's gonna happen. And even then I'm still only interested in TWO things. Bryan/Cena and Punk/Lesnar. Rest of the stuff isn't exactly appealing.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Yep. About time WWE made an effort to put on a good show. Will likely suck next week.


Why so pessimistic?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Isotopes said:


> Why so pessimistic?


It's WWE. They have a habit of fucking up anything good.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

Callamus said:


> It's WWE. They have a habit of fucking up anything good.


True. What was the last episode that made you feel this way?


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Needs the Jericho LMS match. No buy.


If you want that match, it is on the Triple H "That Damn Good" DVD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Couldn't tell you. My memory is terrible. I know I loved the post WM Raw, but not so much for the upcoming direction of things as opposed to the crowd making the show super fun.


----------



## DVDfreaker (Sep 12, 2012)

The Triple H match listing is decent but the extras suck, I rather have 5 to 10 extra matches instead of boring stories


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Bad PPV this year? RR


LOL - the best Rumble match in YEARS, plus a fun opener and ultra-hot historic main event. Let's see what's next. 



> NWO (aside from 2 matches).


There was not an nWo PPV. Nor was there a No Way Out. More LULZ.



> Haven't seen any others in full except WM (which was decent overall).


That was nothing special, I can certainly speak since I attended it. Dead crowd outside of Punk vs. Taker and Rock vs. Cena.



> I'm "hopping on the bandwagon" in the sense that last nights show was the first one I've enjoyed in ages and they've finally given me a reason to look forward to something that's gonna happen.


In the meantime, you've been missing some excellent TV matches involving the Shield, Jericho, Bryan, Ziggler, and Cesaro, just to name a few.



> And even then I'm still only interested in TWO things. Bryan/Cena and Punk/Lesnar. Rest of the stuff isn't exactly appealing.


What's your logic? You don't wanna see a bump machine that has proven to be a great sympathetic babyface like Ziggler get the shit kicked out of him by Langston? Oh that's right, you likely haven't bothered seeing Ziggler's evolving character the past several weeks.

Cody vs. Sandow will also be a feud that will generate genuine crowd heat, and puts both mic kings in a prominent position that guarantees they get PPV programs and extended match times. Both have proven to be very good workers as well. It gives Cody the chance to be the epic babyface that his dad and brother were in the past, and also gives Sandow an extra layer to his douche-bag gimmick if booked properly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best RR in years? I think you are very much alone in thinking that.

NWO, EC, whatever. Feb PPV. Who gives a fuck what it's called?

You are aware I've been WATCHING THE TV SHOWS all this time, right? I haven't "missed" anything. There just hasn't been much in terms of storylines and direction in wrestlers that I've given a FUCK ABOUT. Bryan's push = awesome. Punk/Lesnar = awesome. Ziggler Vs Big E Shit Wrestler? Not awesome. Cody Vs Sandow could be good but given the fact Sandow's character bores me and he hasn't proven to be that good in the ring I'm not that excited. Could be good for Cody, but again I have little reason to give a fuck about Cody atm. If it turns out to be fucking good then that's great. But for now I just don't care. Like everything else going on.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

For what it's worth I thought this was the best Rumble since 2010.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Best RR in years? I think you are very much alone in thinking that.


Right - I was just hallucinating when the bar I attended to watch it was going apeshit over and over again throughout the match. Or the high rating that the dirtsheets gave it.



> NWO, EC, whatever. Feb PPV. Who gives a fuck what it's called?


Considering that it had 3 great matches, each of them a different flavor with different goals, you should care.



> You are aware I've been WATCHING THE TV SHOWS all this time, right? I haven't "missed" anything. There just hasn't been much in terms of storylines and direction in wrestlers that I've given a FUCK ABOUT. Bryan's push = awesome. Punk/Lesnar = awesome. Ziggler Vs Big E Shit Wrestler? Not awesome.


Except that Langston is a very good big man, with great skills on the mic. Ziggler will make sure Langston comes out of the program looking like a future main-eventer.



> Cody Vs Sandow could be good but given the fact Sandow's character bores me and he hasn't proven to be that good in the ring I'm not that excited. Could be good for Cody, but again I have little reason to give a fuck about Cody atm. If it turns out to be fucking good then that's great. But for now I just don't care. Like everything else going on.


How could someone not enjoy the intellectual douche-bag gimmick? The man verbally went toe-to-toe (using that gimmick) with the greatest talker EVER in January and did so to perfection.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh I didn't realise a bunch of drunks in a bar and dirtsheet writers were credible sources as to how great a PPV was.

EC matches worth seeing this year: Shield tag and EC match. Yeah I probably should know the name given that one of the matches is the name of the PPV, but again, who gives a fuck?

Langston sucks IN MY FUCKING OPINION.

Sandow's gimmick got boring about a month after he debuted. Oh he's smart and thinks he's above everyone. How original and exciting. And I don't recall him going toe-to-toe with Foley in Jan. Or Piper. Or Heenan. Or Flair. Or Heyman. Or Cornette. Must have missed that.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Oh I didn't realise a bunch of drunks in a bar and dirtsheet writers were credible sources as to how great a PPV was.


A bunch of casual families actually. The same that attend the events and buy the merchandise.

And I certainly put more stock in the analysis of Meltzer and Alvarez than message board geeks.



> EC matches worth seeing this year: Shield tag and EC match. Yeah I probably should know the name given that one of the matches is the name of the PPV, but again, who gives a fuck?


You're forgetting about the great main event at Elimination Chamber.



> Langston sucks IN MY FUCKING OPINION.


Your opinion is quite awful then.



> Sandow's gimmick got boring about a month after he debuted. Oh he's smart and thinks he's above everyone. How original and exciting.


It actually got better and is quite exciting. I'll take effective recycling over failed attempts at doing something new.



> And I don't recall him going toe-to-toe with Foley in Jan. Or Piper. Or Heenan. Or Flair. Or Heyman. Or Cornette. Must have missed that.


Sandow went to toe-to-toe with the most charismatic, crowd-engaging mic worker in history. Your bias against the Rock is becoming quite obvious by now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I attend shows and buy merch. And I didn't like the show.

Meltzer and Alvarez are pretty much just message board geeks themselves.

The great main event at EC? You mean that shitty match between Rock and Punk to follow up on their god awful match at RR? Or did I forget about another match that happened? YOUR OPINION IS QUITE AWFUL.

I only have a bias against The Rock in the sense that he's shit. He IS one of the best mic workers ever, no doubt about it. But his actual promos are terrible. And they managed to get worse when he returned. And his in ring work died too. Not that he was ever that good to begin.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Keep it up guys.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The 12th Man said:


> And I certainly put more stock in the analysis of Meltzer and Alvarez than message board geeks.


Why? Matches are subjective in terms of quality. Meltzer knows his history but he doesn't know a good/great match anymore than you or I. There's no objective 'good match'. There are typical intangibles that people look for in a match (selling, timing, pacing, psychology, character work etc) but even then some people prefer high flying/junior matches, whereas others consider them spotty and prefer brawls, others find brawls too basic and look for matwork/european style wrestling and others just enjoy characters, gimmicks and personalities as opposed to actual wrestling.

Basically everyone likes what they like and people just argue their opinions. People think Angle is arguably the best worker in WWE history. I personally think outside of a handful of matches and a couple years of his work he's been pretty poor. Doesn't make me right if I dislike a match of his no more than it makes people right for loving his matches. Its not about being right or wrong, but just simply enjoying what you enjoy and then discussing that with others who might have a different point of view.

Meltzer has his own preferences when watching matches the same as any other wrestling fan does. At the end of the day his ratings are nothing more than a point of comparison for people's own. A ***** Meltzer match isn't an objective ***** match. If someone loathes it or doesn't think as highly of it then so long as they give basic reasoning they aren't wrong.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

To be fair, I'm not too thrilled about anything outside of Bryan/Cena and BROCK/Punk either.

That being said, I'm VERY excited about both. Really want to drop a good chunk of change on front row Summerslam seats atm.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I attend shows and buy merch. And I didn't like the show.


You're just one smark though.



> Meltzer and Alvarez are pretty much just message board geeks themselves.


I'm sure the likes of the Rock, Ric Flair, Bret Hart, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, and Bruno Sammartino would agree. Ditto for Brian Pillman, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero if they were still here.



> The great main event at EC? You mean that shitty match between Rock and Punk to follow up on their god awful match at RR? Or did I forget about another match that happened? YOUR OPINION IS QUITE AWFUL.


I actually remember the crowd eating up both matches, which had great storytelling. All it needed was improved pacing (something the Rock can't provide anymore) which is why their matches peaked at being great rather than epic works of art.



> I only have a bias against The Rock in the sense that he's shit. He IS one of the best mic workers ever, no doubt about it. But his actual promos are terrible. And they managed to get worse when he returned. And his in ring work died too. Not that he was ever that good to begin.


His resume of ****+ matches against a variety of opponents indicates otherwise. Great matches against HHH, Benoit, Jericho, Angle, Austin, Foley, Lesnar, Taker, just to name a few.

I'm actually hoping that down the road, once Bryan is established in the upper echelon for good, we'll finally get my dream match of the Rock vs. Bryan Danielson. THAT would be the way for the Rock to bow out in the ring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> To be fair, I'm not too thrilled about anything outside of Bryan/Cena and BROCK/Punk either.


YOU SUCK AND YOUR OPINION SUCKS.

Edit: I'm genuinely not sure what The 12th Man is arguing any more. I actually have interest in TWO THINGS that WWE are doing atm compared to fuck all, and somehow I'm a terrible person. There are plenty of real reasons to point to me being a terrible person, liking something good ain't one of them.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The 12th Man said:


> I actually remember the crowd eating up both matches


Nobody's denying Rock's charisma/connection with the crowd nor drawing ability.



> His resume of ****+ matches against a variety of opponents indicates otherwise. Great matches against HHH, Benoit, Jericho, Angle, Austin, Foley, Lesnar, Taker, just to name a few.


Not hard to have a good match with those guys. Just saying. Plus, he was in his prime then.



Callamus said:


> YOU SUCK AND YOUR OPINION SUCKS.


WHAT THE FUCK MAN


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Summerslam's looking fucking stellar so far.

and that D-Bry reaction on Raw :mark: i haven't seen a reaction like that in a *long* time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I had a pretty wide shit-eating grin when he was up on the turnbuckle and the entire building was shouting YES.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

*Bret Hart's Team vs. Stone Cold's Team* from _Canadian Stampede 1997
_
This was the 10-man tag team match from Calgary where Bret was the hometown hero, and everyone inside that arena hated Austin. I decided to watch this match to see what all the hype was about. When it originally aired, I was far from a wrestling fan - in fact, it wasn't until 7 years later that I became one. Fast forward to 2004, where _none_ of these wrestlers were actively wrestling. Out of 10, only Stone Cold Steve Austin was around - as a supposed authority figure. And the closest thing to a Goldust was a Rico. The first pay-per-view from that time span was the 2004 Royal Rumble, which effortlessly cemented my interest in wrestling after Chris Benoit's inspirational performance. 

As for the match itself, it very well may be the best multi-tag team match I have watched. If only modern Survivor Series matches could feel this way... I loved the energy that spread rampantly throughout that arena. It was the kind of energy that makes a ticket purchase worthwhile and well worth every dollar you paid. The kind of infectious energy that makes wrestling *amazing* to be a part of.

At no single point in this match did it feel like it dragged. The pace remained consistent throughout the course of this match, culminating into must-see material.

*Rating: ****3/4*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ROFL @ the last page.

Just rewatched HBK vs Taker from WM26 and I gotta say, this has nothing on their XXV match. That one is a 5 star classic through and through. This one feels like it has "storytelling" as its main focus but I felt it was also just an improved match over Taker/HHH from WM27. (although this obviously happened first) Felt they went too far with hitting finishers so constantly. But other than that, HBK did some wonderful leg work including that moonsault spot. And that jumping Tombstone was an epic ending! ★★★★¼-½ is probably what I'd go for.

And Evan, I finally heard that "guillotine legdrop" guy right after Taker cleared the Spanish announce table.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I REALLY need to see the Canadian Stampede tag again. I honestly haven't seen it since I ordered the PPV in 97.


----------



## Isotopes (Jul 13, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I REALLY need to see the Canadian Stampede tag again. I honestly haven't seen it since I ordered the PPV in 97.


Seriously. As far as tag matches go, it doesn't get any better than this.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's the rumor. I remember the atmosphere being awesome, but I couldn't tell you anything about the match itself.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The 12th Man said:


> You're forgetting about the great main event at Elimination Chamber.





"The Teller of All Truths" Wikipedia said:


> This year's event was headlined by The Rock defending the WWE Championship against CM Punk.





The 12th Man said:


> Your opinion is quite awful then.



Duuuuuhhhhhh this was hated by all fans so you can't like it!!!


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I see what you did there, Yeah. I've seen the master at work.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The 12th Man said:


> Fantasy DVD concept from me


I like the idea and hope they do it. It was rumored that a 50th Anniversary special would be coming out this year but I think it was scrapped. Good list btw in terms of match quality but 70% of those have already been released on other sets.



EmbassyForever said:


> How was Umaga/Triple H from Cyber Sunday 2007?


Loved it personally. Great pace, Umaga looked dominant, one of Triple H's good babyface performances imo. *** 3/4



The 12th Man said:


> Name me a bad PPV this year.


Frankly I think the only two really good PPVs we've had this year are Elimination Chamber & Money In The Bank. I love EC and will praise it all day. Excellent Chamber, awesome 6-man, good opener, and Punk/Rock was tolerable. MITB was hit or miss though. 4 very good matches, 4 not so good matches. Mania was a 2 match show for me and Extreme Rules was pretty average. Never saw the Rumble, highly doubt I ever will.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Payback is EOTY for me, as Ziggler-Del Rio is MOTY from the same show. Plan on reviewing MITB considering I've just watched it, freshness is time limited, so I'd better get to work.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

IF Bryan beats Cena at Summerslam (still not sold this will happen just yet) I hope they at least wait until Raw the next night for Orton to cash in. Hell give Bryan one damn day as WWE champ....like his former partner.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> IF Bryan beats Cena at Summerslam (still not sold this will happen just yet) I hope they at least wait until Raw the next night for Orton to win the title. *Hell give Bryan one damn day as WWE champ....like his former partner*.


You say that like it's a good thing. . To be completely honest, I'd rather Bryan win the WWE championship against Punk & Orton at WM, in a classic Benoit-like story, receive a long, substantial title reign. I want his 1st reign to be one of quality. Let Cena face Taker in the epic proportional match that rivals Andre-Hogan, in terms of larger than life moments. Somebody like Ryback or Sheamus can face Brock and provide a nice mammoth brawl, Sheamus more so, as he is a good worker and better than the former choice. I'd also like to see Ziggler vs. Triple H, clickable chemistry seems like it would be prevalent here, as I've really dug Ziggler's work over the past few weeks/months and it seems that the hate-hat is slowly but surely coming off. ******* will be happy about that, . Anyways and Trips plays an okay babyface, carrying will be big part of Ziggie's game plan, but he can accomplish it. So............

My WM 30 card hopes are as follow:

1. Cena vs. Taker - The Streak Match and ME
2. Punk vs. Orton vs. Bryan - WWE Championship match (Bryan winning)
3. Brock vs. Sheamus/Ryback - Possible stipulation addition like a LMS or No DQ
4. Ziggler vs. Triple H - With HBK as the referee
5. The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family - Two Units Collide

Unsure hopes:

6. Damien vs. Rhodes
7. Big Show vs. Mysterio (Double retirement for both, fitting way as their both opposing images to the other)

Stick Barret and Miz in a match against The Usos, Kane in a filler, then it's all set.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Fluze said:


> You say that like it's a good thing. . To be completely honest, I'd rather Bryan win the WWE championship against Punk & Orton at WM, in a classic Benoit-like story, receive a long, substantial title reign. I want his 1st reign to be one of quality. Let Cena face Taker in the epic proportional match that rivals Andre-Hogan, in terms of larger than life moments. Somebody like Ryback or Sheamus can face Brock and provide a nice mammoth brawl, Sheamus more so, as he is a good worker and better than the former choice. I'd also like to see Ziggler vs. Triple H, clickable chemistry seems like it would be prevalent here, as I've really dug Ziggler's work over the past few weeks/months and it seems that the hate-hat is slowly but surely coming off. ******* will be happy about that, . Anyways and Trips plays an okay babyface, carrying will be big part of Ziggie's game plan, but he can accomplish it. So............
> 
> My WM 30 card hopes are as follow:
> 
> ...





I agree with you I want Bryan's first WWE title run to be a GOOD one. Like at least 3-4 months if not more. Hell it would be kind of cool if it was like a year. If I had to guess I'd guess he wins it at SS or NoC and drops it by Rumble. Just my 2 cents. 

If Brock wrestles at Mania it will be against a big name like Taker, Cena, Punk or Rock. Way too early for Mania card prediction but I will give it a shot, winners in bold....

*Taker* V Cena (I'm warming up to this idea but what I want to see is Taker/Brock)

WWE title match Orton (heel) (C) V *Bryan* (Rumble winner) V Sheamus

Punk V *Brock* II I Quit (I could see it being like Brock/HHH where they have 3 matches....Punk wins at Slam, Brock at Mania and they break the tie at ER 2014 with Hell in a Cell)

WHC title- *Dolph* V Fandango (C) V Wade Barrett

Kane & RVD & Edge (yes that Edge....crazy things happen at Mania who knows) with Mick Foley V *Wyatt Family* (keep the story line going for months of the Wyatts trying to recruit Kane and he keeps rebuking them....so Kane recruits his friends to fight them off like RVD, Edge and Foley gives them guidance of how to fight the crazy.....hell I dont know it's 8 months away!)

For the MitB Briefcase- *Sandow* V Rhodes (could be a real good rivalry....make Sandow hold onto it until then and Rhodes call him out and make him put it on the line at Mania)

*Evolution plus 1 (HHH, Batista, Ryback) with HBK * V Shield (Shield lose and it could be Rollins "fault"....they break up and Rollins turns face and Ambrose and Reigns go on as heels by themselves......also HHH recruits the Ryback to help them fight the Shield cuz heel Orton says no and Ryback and Batista coexist until the match is over) 

*ADR* V Richardo Rodriguez

AJ Lee V *Stephanie McMahon*


Old School V New School- Jericho, Mysterio, Big Show V *Big E, Corey Graves and Bo Dallas *


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

MITB Matches
Smackdown 2010 - ***3/4
Raw 2010 - ***1/2
Smackdown 2011 - ***3/4
Raw 2011 -***3/4
WHC 2012 - ***1/4
WWE 2012 - ***1/2

Certainly not a bad way to spend some time. Hopefully I get to see 2013 soon.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

RAW MITB was ridiculously underwhelming IMO, it certainly wasn't bad but I'd easily say that Henry-Cena, WHC MITB, & DOLPH-Rio were vastly superior. I'd more or less put it on the level of Ryback Vs Jericho which I enjoyed for the most part. It was no Brock-HHH from extreme rules in terms of being a great main event bout, but it was vastly superior to every other shit-tastic main event bout that the company has put on so far this year. 

Waiting for my 4,000th post to make a big 4,000th post MARK HENRY SPECTACULAR where I talk all about the guy and how much I adore him on top of discussing his underrated 2003 - 2011 run on top of his epic 2011 - present run. The match vs Cena was evidence as to how Henry is still on top of his game in terms of working as well. GONNA POST THE BIG LIST THERE AS WELL.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Took the time to go through some of C2D's list as well as matches I haven't seen in a while.

Orton/Michaels Unforgiven 2003: ****3/4*
Very good match. I really like the chemistry that these two have. Orton's armwork here was real good and he played the young arrogant fool well. His charisma really showed up here too. Michaels as usual played the ring general and babyface at a high level. Loved the ending too.

Orton/Benjamin Bad Blood 2004: ****3/4*
DAT ORTON PROMO. Good god that was beautiful. GET A LOOK AT GREATNESS rton. Both of these guys are at their best points here and we get a fun match with quality pacing. Benjamin is such a natural face, even if he didn't get the crowd entirely on his side here. Once again, lots of fun here without any fluff.

Orton/RVD Armageddon 2003: ****3/4*
Another quality Orton match in his Evolution days. These guys also had underrated chemistry. RVD at this point in his career was able to have a well-paced match and play one of the best babyfaces in the company. Orton also hit some very physical offense here. Fun match that is worth a watch.

8-Man Tag 4/12/04: *****1/4*
I haven't had this much fun watching a match in a long time. GOAT Chicago crowd as always that won't stop making noise. Everyone here is full of energy. The crowd exploded when Benoit and HHH faced off in the beginning. Faces all played sympathetic roles (especially Benjamin) and heels did their job being conniving and resourceful. Wonderful match with a feel good ending.

Hart/Patriot IYH: Ground Zero: ******
One of the greatest carryjobs of all-time. Patriot is absolute shit, but Bret was able to take control of the match and fill it up with usual Bret greatness. Interferences also added to this match and were a great way to fill time. Everything right done here and nothing wrong.

Edge/Jericho/Benoit vs. Evolution 6/14/04: *****1/4*
Another terrific Evolution/Faces 2004 match from the GOAT brand split year of RAW. There's nothing like an awesome elimination match.

Guerrero/Big Show 4/15/04: ******
Eddie Guerrero is perfection. Just when I thought I have seen it all in wrestling, Eddie always does something innovative and fun. LOL at him pulling Big Show's chesthair and putting that wrench in Show's boot.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The 12th man will be a popular addition to this thread I see.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I forgot to add this to my Cena/Henry review but I thought I should note that they really played well to Cena's desperation with the first STF. It's a running joke that Bryan has the "I've got until 5!" catchphrase, but when was the last time you saw Cena "break the rules" and not immediately release a move following a rope-break?



zep81 said:


> The 12th man will be a popular addition to this thread I see.


I feel like plugging the train-wreck currently occuring in the TCW thread over in the Other Section right about now, noting the "smark" bashing happening here.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> To be fair, I'm not too thrilled about anything outside of Bryan/Cena and BROCK/Punk either.
> 
> That being said, I'm VERY excited about both. Really want to drop a good chunk of change on front row Summerslam seats atm.


I just blew a good bit of money on floor seats for the show and Axxess tickets. This past RAW basically just drove me over the edge and convinced me to go


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Took the time to go through some of C2D's list as well as matches I haven't seen in a while.
> 
> Edge/Jericho/Benoit vs. Evolution 6/14/04: *****1/4*
> Another terrific Evolution/Faces 2004 match from the GOAT brand split year of RAW. There's nothing like an awesome elimination match.


Good work. And here I was thinking I overrated the elimination match giving it the same rating as you.

And the Unforgiven match took me by surprise, it was much better this time around and I didn't remember Orton ever using chops. He was made to look pretty strong because despite the dirty finish, he got to continue after receiving some Sweet Chin Music.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched two matches yesterday

HBK vs HHH vs Benoit wm 20
Its still very good, only probelm I have really is length, they really could of cut 5 and it be perfect. I really cant complain about the action in the match through, best triple threat by far, HBK and Benoit were studs in this one.HHH held his own as well and him tapping was excellent and was the extra kick for the moment after the match.I love HBK attire here

Punk vs Jercho Payback
- this match is pretty bad, I didnt really realize that, it went down my 2nd watch but now it bad, Only part decent was the middle portion and then it kinda dragged at the end. Not a sharp match for those two


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Rah said:


> I feel like plugging the train-wreck currently occuring in the TCW thread over in the Other Section right about now, noting the "smark" bashing.


Yeah I read a few pages of that thread and all it did was guarantee I will never watch TCW.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Bought the Stone Cold Blu Ray and got reminded how freakin good that doc was, my god.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES (VII):*

*10. Randy Orton vs John Cena - No Way Out 2008*











*9. Randy Orton vs Christian (No Holds Barred) - SummerSlam 2011*











*8. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) - Smackdown, 27 January 2006*











*7. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) - No Mercy 2007*











*6. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Edge vs Batista vs Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) - New Year's Revolution 2005*










*Click Here to See 100-86*
*Click Here to See 85-71
Click Here to See 70-56
Click Here to See 55-41
Click Here to See 40-26
Click Here to See 25-11*​


Spoiler: list



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
49. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
46. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
44. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012 
43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
40. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
39. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
38. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
37. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
36. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
35. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
34. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
33. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
32. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
31. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
30. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
29. The Royal Rumble Match – Royal Rumble 2009
28. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
27. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
26. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005
25. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 30 April 2007
24. Rated RKO vs DX – New Year’s Revolution 2007
23. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin – Raw, 12 April 2004
22. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels – Backlash 2007
21. Randy Orton vs Christian – Smackdown, 6 May 2011
20. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Raw, 16 August 2004
19. Randy Orton & "Cowboy" Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005
18. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin – Survivor Series 2003
17. Evolution (Orton, Flair & Batista) vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Jericho – Raw, 14 June 2004
16. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – No Way Out 2006
15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005
14. Team Smackdown vs Team Raw – Survivor Series 2005
13. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 13 January 2006
12. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21 
11. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 2007
10. Randy Orton vs John Cena – No Way Out 2008
9. Randy Orton vs Christian (No Holds Barred) – SummerSlam 2011
8. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) – Smackdown, 27 January 2006
7. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – No Mercy 2007
6. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Batista vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) – New Year’s Revolution 2005


----------



## Lastmanstanding1 (Mar 16, 2013)

Great list, Choke2death. Orton/Foley from Backlash '04 is obviously going to be number 1.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I absolutely love the Christian match from Summerslam 2011 ****1/4.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

MITB anthology will be titled "Straight to the Top: The Money in the Bank Ladder Match Anthology."


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched Orton - Christian from MITB 2011 yesterday and it's one of those matches where the DQ finish was fine IMO. Of course, it made Christian look like a bitch considering that was his only big win over Orton and he lost the title a following month on Summerslam. It's fucking hilarious that Orton RKO'ed Christian twice on the table and it still wouldn't break :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm already loving The 12th Man right now. We were getting along too much in this topic, and he causes some rift like no other :lol

Some more matches I just watched. Trying to find as many hidden gems as possible.

Edge/Jericho 8/9/04: ******
I'm a fan of both of these guys, but I never really thought that these two had the best of chemistry. They had two good cage matches, but most of their other stuff either drags too much, or it's very disappointing. This match is probably the best they've ever had. Although it was a face/face match, Edge played the makeshift heel here. He did a great job cutting off Jericho's momentum and didn't play to the crowd as much as he did in his failed 2004 face run. Both guys look motivated here and we get their best paced and timed match they ever had.

Austin/Kane RAW after KOTR 98: *****
This match is commonly cited as the best match of RAW in 98 and one of the best AE television matches ever, but I just don't see it. Don't get me wrong, this is a fun fast-paced (at least the beginning) brawl, but Austin gave us one of the worst sell-jobs ever with his right arm. Amazing how much the WWE evolved from here. Kane was pretty good here, albeit very vulnerable. Ending was kinda disappointing and Kane did not bump very well. Worth a watch for the hot crowd and overall fun, but not as good as I once thought.

Edge/Tajiri/Benjamin vs. Evolution: ******
Another match on C2D's list that I haven't seen since it initially aired. It was really cool seeing Tajiri getting a chance to hang with the big boys. The man is honestly one of the most talented wrestlers the company ever had, and that is no hyperbole. His babyface performance here was off the charts! I went crazy when he got tagged in late in the match and attacked everyone. Feel good ending here made this match even better. Very entertaining.

Guerrero/Booker T 3/25/04: ****1/4*
If you haven't seen this match before, take a look at the promo that occurred earlier that night where Booker calls Smackdown the "minor leagues". Underrated title match from Eddie's reign where he defends the honor and glory of Smackdown. Booker's offense isn't that impressive here, but the way that Eddie sells it and recovers from it hides Booker's flaws. I will give Booker credit for turning moves that are often crowd-pleasers of his (arm wrench kick for instance) into heel-ish moves with the way he slowly performs them and taunts the crowd. A bit too many restholds here, but Eddie plays the resilient face very well and the ending sequence was good.

Edge/Benoit vs. Batista/Flair 4/26/04: ****3/4*
Benoit getting his well-deserved overpush here as he is both WHC and Tag champ. The man is seriously an underappreciated tag team worker. Never noticed how vicious some of Batista's moves (especially his clothesline) were back in his Evolution days. He just manhandles Edge here, while Flair contrasts Batista's power with his trickery. I'm not a big fan of FIP Edge, but he does a good job here of garnering sympathy and Benoit does an even better job of going insane and attacking everything in sight. Edge may have a horrible spear, but it does lend itself to some great positioning for finishers and we get a real good ending here. Gonna go check out their previous week's match too while I'm at it.

And as for the Punk/Jericho Payback match, I have watched it multiple times and I still love it to death. In the same sense that Cal appreciates the Undertaker/Austin Backlash match and Evan loves HHH/Lesnar's first match, Punk/Jericho is that one "panned" match that I will put on a pedestal. Granted, I am a very biased observer, but I loved the two stories being told here of Punk fighting a mental battle of whether he can still perform at an elite level as well as the transition of Punk going from depending on Heyman to looking for the fans for advice in times of need. One of my favorite babyface performances this year and a really good character analysis of Punk here as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The match when Benoit and Edge become tag champions is excellent and one of the overlooked gems from Raw 2004 tag matches. The Evolution match involving Tajiri is also excellent. I would have never given it a second look had it not been for WWE.com featuring it as one of the only 2004 matches (since y'know, Benoit is everywhere). Good thing because it's nearly as good as any of the other Evolution tags.

And finally, I put together my top 5 so it's a matter of copy+paste into here. Don't know if I should post it today or tomorrow, though.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

NOW!!!

I really can't comment until I actually watch a lot, but I've told you before that it's an excellent, helpful, guide.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*TOP 100 RANDY ORTON MATCHES (VIII):*

*5. Randy Orton vs Christian - Over the Limit 2011*









_(Following their excellent Smackdown match where Christian's dreams were shattered as his World Title reign turned out to be a short one, they manage to top that with an even better classic that includes great call-back spots, nearfalls and good storytelling with Christian desperately trying to get back what he worked so hard for only to lose after 2 days. This is an amazing match with Orton playing the tweenerish champion and Christian being the face. One of the best spots and cases of storytelling comes when Orton sets up the punt kick but decides against it at first due to the mutual respect between the two. Orton eventually goes for it only for Christian to capitalize with a spear that nearly got him back the championship. Christian made many appearances in this list but none were as memorable as this match.)_


*4. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, 7 April 2006*









_(This is a very unique case. As a match, it had no build-up and was randomly announced on the very same show with no storyline reasoning for it. But once the bell rings, these two tear the house down in over 20 minutes of great back and forth action. Their chemistry is off the hook as Rey Mysterio is the underdog champion trying to prove that his title victory days before at Wrestlemania 22 was not a fluke while Orton is the arrogant heel who underestimates Rey and plays with his emotions. The action is on another level as Orton shows his resilience by having a counter for nearly everything Mysterio does but at the same time, Mysterio proves that he's not a fluke champion by fighting back after everything Orton throws at him and catching him off guard by the ringpost with a 619 followed by another one to win his first match as champion.)_


*3. Randy Orton vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - Armageddon 2005*









_(After trying to kill the legend of Undertaker for nearly a year, Orton finds himself in a difficult position when he's unable to shake the Deadman off his back. The feud started getting over the top cartoony and cheesy around this point but luckily, they top all of that as well as their excellent matches prior with the best feud ender out there: Hell in a Cell. For thirty minutes, these two go at it inside the structure and are hit with everything possible from steel steps and their entire arsenal of moves. Orton even puts Undertaker through a table as pictured above. Like always, Undertaker overcomes everything thrown at him and emerges victorious to close this chapter of two great careers.)_


*2. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - SummerSlam 2004*









_(At 24 years of age, Orton got his shot at the World Heavyweight Championship here and came out the winner, also putting his name in history books forever as the youngest World Champion in history. Chris Benoit was a true champion who had proven to be unstoppable when he managed to defeat main eventers like Triple H, Shawn Michaels and even the Big Red Machine, Kane by submission in his reign. That is until he faced the young and brash Randy Orton who took him to his limits and managed to slip out of a Crossface attempt with an RKO counter that made him the World Champion. This is the match that legitimized Orton as a future main eventer and this is also a match that remains one of the greatest SummerSlam main events ever. Luckily, not only was this historic in its result, it was memorable in the ring as both men used the 20 minutes they got to do everything they possibly could. To close it off, they make sure we'll never forget this moment as Benoit passes Orton the torch by shaking his hand and saying the immortal words in his trademark intense tone: "BE A MAN!".)_

















*AND THE COUNTDOWN IS OVER AS WE APPROACH NUMBER 1 WHICH IS...*
































*1. Randy Orton vs Triple H - Wrestlemania XXV*









_(What did you think? This is the greatest Randy Orton match of all time simply because it was his biggest business moving match ever. As a wrestler, you don't matter if you can't DRAW! Orton proved his worth right here when Wrestlemania XXV got a good buyrate with him and Triple H main eventing a historic Wrestlemania. They put on a wrestling clinic topping anything else they've done before with finishers being hit early and Triple H avenging his great family's suffering by defeating the evil Randy Orton after all the terrible things he did to the McMahon family as well as Triple H himself. Watch as the crowd explodes as soon as Triple H successfully pins Randy Orton to retain his championship on the grandest stage of them all!)_

































*You didn't believe that, did ya? Here's the real number one not like anyone expected differently...*








*1. Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack (Hardcore Match) - Backlash 2004*









_(All jokes aside, this is Orton's definitive match in his career. What's amazing is that this is before he even became a main eventer. If the Benoit match made him a main eventer, this is the match that put everyone on notice and made them realize that Randy Orton is the future and he's here to stay. He goes toe-to-toe with the hardcore legend, Mick Foley who chooses to show up as Cactus Jack to finally get even with Randy Orton for all things he did to him. This is not your generic "good guy wins in the end" story so Orton is the guy who gets put over. A brutal match where they go through barbwire tables, get thrown off stages, land on thumbtacks and get their heads slammed against solid steel. Orton manages to get up from everything he goes through and he puts on a classic with Foley that helped his career and fast rise to the top immensely. Everyone is familiar with this match so I don't really have to say anything else. Foley even goes as far as considering it his greatest match ever. So you know that's saying something.)_


*Click Here to See 100-86*
*Click Here to See 85-71
Click Here to See 70-56
Click Here to See 55-41
Click Here to See 40-26
Click Here to See 25-11
Click Here to See 10-6*​


Spoiler: full list



100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
49. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
46. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
44. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012 
43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
40. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
39. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
38. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
37. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
36. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
35. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
34. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
33. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
32. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
31. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
30. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
29. The Royal Rumble Match – Royal Rumble 2009
28. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
27. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
26. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005
25. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 30 April 2007
24. Rated RKO vs DX – New Year’s Revolution 2007
23. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin – Raw, 12 April 2004
22. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels – Backlash 2007
21. Randy Orton vs Christian – Smackdown, 6 May 2011
20. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Raw, 16 August 2004
19. Randy Orton & "Cowboy" Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005
18. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin – Survivor Series 2003
17. Evolution (Orton, Flair & Batista) vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Jericho – Raw, 14 June 2004
16. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – No Way Out 2006
15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005
14. Team Smackdown vs Team Raw – Survivor Series 2005
13. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 13 January 2006
12. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21 
11. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 2007
10. Randy Orton vs John Cena – No Way Out 2008
9. Randy Orton vs Christian (No Holds Barred) – SummerSlam 2011
8. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) – Smackdown, 27 January 2006
7. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – No Mercy 2007
6. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Batista vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) – New Year’s Revolution 2005
5. Randy Orton vs Christian - Over the Limit 2011 
4. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown, 7 April 2006
3. Randy Orton vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) - Armageddon 2005
2. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - SummerSlam 2004
1. Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack (Hardcore Match) - Backlash 2004


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Foley V Orton might be my favourite gimmick match ever. Amazing match. Nice list.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Everyone must get Foley's new blu ray for the "Barbie" promo. The Backlash 2004 match isn't complete without it.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Dat C2D troll

Good list, Foley/RKO gets better and better everytime i see it.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death, it's funny that Orton vs. Cena HIAC isn't anywhere on your list, unless I missed it. 

Remember I told you that I randomly found out about Orton, because I just randomly clicked on that match on Youtube one day? It was right as I started getting back into wrestling, and I clicked on that video because I wanted to watch Cena, and see why everyone hated him. I have no idea why it was THAT match that I watched, but I know it must have randomly come up on my recommendations or something, for me to click on that one. [email protected] having such a completely random way of learning about something/getting back into something.

Anyway, so I wasn't watching for Orton, but he totally captured my attention and intrigued me. This was in 2009, right? So this must have been back when everyone here is saying that they especially hated him, and hated his gimmick. Well, I obviously didn't have the displeasure of it getting old or anything, so it worked on me! He came across as so different from any wrestler I'd ever seen, that he had me hooked, even though from what I remember, the match itself was kind of slow. 

I was invested the whole way through, and it REALLY shocked me that he won cleanly. Because I was hearing everything about how Cena never jobs, and he's superman, etc. So I totally wasn't expecting that ending, which is what made me like it even more.

So basically, was the match really bad enough not to even make the top 100?! I can't even say anything too specific about the match, which I guess speaks to the fact that it may not have been all that good of a match. However, it was significant enough to get me invested in Randy as a wrestler, which leads us to where we are...


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Orton HIAC was so average from what i personally remember.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Top 80 SummerSlam Matches*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3


*Part 4 (20-6)

(****)
20 - John Cena vs. Batista, 2008









19 - Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, 2000









(****1/4)
18 - Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio, 2002









17 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, 2011









16 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Mankind, 1997









15 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, 1989









14 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho, 2005









13 - Shane McMahon vs. Test, 1999









12 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, 2008









(****1/2)
11 - Christian vs. Randy Orton, 2011









10 - Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, 2006









9 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, 2002









8 - Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardys, 2000









7 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, 2004









6 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, 1997







*​


Spoiler: List so far



*Honorable Mentions*
Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler, 1993
Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano, 1995
The Undertaker vs. The A-Train, 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, 2007
CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, 2012

*(***)*
80 - The Un-Americans vs. BookDust, 2002
79 - JeriShow vs. Cryme Tyme, 2009
78 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1990
77 - Bam Bam Bigelow & The Headshrinkers vs. Tatanka & The Smoking Gunns, 1993
76 - Rey Mysterio, John Morrison & Kofi Kingston vs. Alberto Del Rio, The Miz & R-Truth, 2011
75 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, 2000
74 - D-Generation X vs. The McMahons, 2006
73 - The Rockers vs. Power & Glory, 1990
72 - The Hart Foundation vs. Demolition, 1990
71 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Money Inc., 1992
70 - Kane & X-Pac vs. The Undertaker & The Big Show, 1999
69 - X-Pac vs. Tajiri, 2001
68 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, 2003
67 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, 2005
66 - CM Punk vs. JBL, 2008
65 - The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio, 2012
*(***1/4)*
64 - The Undertaker vs. Test, 2002
63 - Barry Horowitz vs. Skip, 1995
62 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, 1999
61 - The Rockers & Tito Santana vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus & Rick Martel, 1989
60 - Kane vs. Rey Mysterio, 2010
59 - Kane vs. Daniel Bryan, 2012
58 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, 1998
57 - Diesel vs. Razor Ramon, 1994
56 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, 1988
55 - Sheamus vs. Randy Orton, 2010
54 - The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, 1993
53 - D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, 1998
52 - Lance Storm vs. Edge, 2001
51 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, 2004
50 - X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett, 1998
*(***1/2)*
49 - Booker T vs. The Rock, 2001
48 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2002
47 - Hakushi vs. The 123-Kid, 1995
46 - The Rock vs. Triple H, 1998
45 - Triple H vs. Eugene, 2004
44 - Chris Jericho vs. Rhyno, 2001
43 - Sheamus vs. Mark Henry, 2011
42 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1989
*(***3/4)*
41 - Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2005
40 - Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2012
39 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, 1995
38 - Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2009
37 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, 2009
36 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, 2012
35 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno vs. Tajiri, 2003
34 - Ted DiBiase vs. Virgil, 1991
33 - Edge vs. John Cena, 2006
32 - Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, 1998
31 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, 1996
*(****)*
30 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, 2007
29 - The Undertaker vs. Mick Foley, 1996
28 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, 2010
27 - Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett, 2011
26 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, 2002
25 - Chris Benoit vs. Rob Van Dam, 2002
24 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, 2009
23 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, 1992
22 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, 2005
21 - Owen Hart vs. Steve Austin, 1997
20 - John Cena vs. Batista, 2008
19 - Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, 2000
*(****1/4)*
18 - Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio, 2002
17 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, 2011
16 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Mankind, 1997
15 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, 1989
14 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho, 2005
13 - Shane McMahon vs. Test, 1999
12 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, 2008
*(****1/2)*
11 - Christian vs. Randy Orton, 2011
10 - Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, 2006
9 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, 2002
8 - Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardys, 2000
7 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, 2004
6 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, 1997


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Both C2D and ATF with the awesome lists. Great work guys. *Thumbs up smiley would be here if it worked*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another great set of matches in the list, ATF. Top 5 should be interesting, I expect Angle/Austin, Bret/Owen and Bret/Bulldog in there. Can't come up with two other matches yet.



Ever Wolf said:


> Dat C2D troll
> 
> Good list, Foley/RKO gets better and better everytime i see it.


I ripped off KOK even with that one. Never fallen for it myself and had no reason to believe others will but I had a good joke to pull with the WM match so I went on with it.

And yeah, it's one of my most watched matches but equally fun every single time.



LilOlMe said:


> Choke2Death, it's funny that Orton vs. Cena HIAC isn't anywhere on your list, unless I missed it.
> 
> Remember I told you that I randomly found out about Orton, because I just randomly clicked on that match on Youtube one day? It was right as I started getting back into wrestling, and I clicked on that video because I wanted to watch Cena, and see why everyone hated him. I have no idea why it was THAT match that I watched, but I know it must have randomly come up on my recommendations or something, for me to click on that one. [email protected] having such a completely random way of learning about something/getting back into something.


I know that you randomly found out about Orton but this story is a new one for me. Interesting and I really mean it.



> Anyway, so I wasn't watching for Orton, but he totally captured my attention and intrigued me. This was in 2009, right? So this must have been back when everyone here is saying that they especially hated him, and hated his gimmick. Well, I obviously didn't have the displeasure of it getting old or anything, so it worked on me! He came across as so different than any wrestler I'd ever seen, that he had me hooked, even though from what I remember, the match itself was kind of slow.
> 
> I was invested the whole way through, and it REALLY shocked me that he won cleanly. Because I was hearing everything about how Cena never jobs, and he's superman, etc. So I totally wasn't expecting that ending, which is what made me like it even more.
> 
> So basically, was the match really bad enough not to even make the top 100?! I can't even say anything too specific about the match, which I guess speaks to the fact that it may not have been all that good of a match. However, it was significant enough to get me invested in Randy as a wrestler, which leads us to where we are...


I see what you mean. Personally, I have only watched wrestling for a few years but the moment I laid eyes on Orton, he caught my attention and instantly became one of my favorites. He has that aura and physical charisma where you have to pay attention when you see him, at least as a newbie.

And Cena didn't lose clean in that match since he made Orton submit to the STF when the referee was down. For the match quality, I think it's average-decent but a little too slow. Was considering a spot for it near the bottom but in the end, there were plenty of stuff I liked more which I felt deserved a spot over it and besides, Cena makes over 10 appearances as it is, so I didn't feel like it was necessary or good enough.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 Orton Matches:

5. Vs Mick Foley BL 04
4. Vs Mysterio NWO 06
3. Vs Cena NWO 08
2. Vs Benoit SD 13/01/2006
1. Vs Undertaker HIAC Armageddon 05

Guy has a pretty tremendous top 10/15 matches all high ****+ matches for me. God I wish he'd be that good on a more consistent basis again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Top 5 Orton Matches:
> 
> 5. Vs Mick Foley BL 04
> 4. Vs Mysterio NWO 06
> ...


Which is your second favorite Orton match against Benoit and Taker? Your high rating for it really made me realize the greatness that is SummerSlam 05.

I may be biased but I think he's once again started improving his performances ever since he got involved with The Shield and Daniel Bryan. Certainly a step up compared to the days of facing Wade Barrett every week.



And if anyone wants the list with star ratings along with it, here it is:



Spoiler: list with ratings



(★★★)
100. Randy Orton vs Hulk Hogan – SummerSlam 2006
99. Randy Orton vs Batista – Armageddon 2008
98. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Unforgiven 2004
97. Randy Orton vs CM Punk (Last Man Standing) – Extreme Rules 2012
96. Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett (No Disqualification) – Smackdown, 3 February 2012
95. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Steel Cage) – Judgment Day 2008 
(★★★¼)
94. Randy Orton vs Kane – Wrestlemania XXVIII
93. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Raw, 7 June 2004
92. Rated RKO vs Shawn Michaels & John Cena – Raw, 26 February 2007
91. Randy Orton vs Kane (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 22 July 2011
90. Randy Orton vs Shane McMahon (No Holds Barred) – No Way Out 2009
89. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Big Show vs Triple H – Raw, 15 June 2009
88. Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio – Hell in a Cell 2012
87. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 1 September 2005
86. Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle vs Triple H & John Cena – Saturday Night’s Main Event, 18 March 2006
85. Randy Orton, JBL & Finlay vs Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley – Smackdown, 24 February 2006
84. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – One Night Stand 2006
83. Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker & Batista – Raw, 12 February 2007
82. Evolution vs Shelton Benjamin, Edge & Tajiri – Raw, 3 May 2004
81. Money in the Bank III – Wrestlemania 23
(★★★½)
80. Randy Orton vs Christian – Capitol Punishment 2011
79. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Raw, 18 April 2011
78. Randy Orton vs Sheamus vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio – Over the Limit 2012
77. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 10 February 2012
76. Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler – Raw, 29 August 2011
75. Money in the Bank (Raw) – Money in the Bank 2010
74. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Smackdown, 14 April 2006
73. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Cyber Sunday 2007
72. Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 February 2007
71. Legacy & CM Punk vs DX, John Cena & Undertaker – Smackdown, 2 October 2009
70. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Hell in a Cell 2011
69. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Armageddon 2007
68. Randy Orton vs Christian – Money in the Bank 2011
67. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Edge – Raw, 2 August 2004
66. Legacy vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Batista – Backlash 2009
65. Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy – Royal Rumble 2008
64. Randy Orton vs Kurt Angle – Vengeance 2006
63. Randy Orton vs CM Punk – Wrestlemania XXVII
62. Randy Orton vs Christian – Raw, 14 February 2005
61. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Unforgiven 2003
60. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho – Raw, 5 July 2004
59. Evolution vs Rock n’ Sock Connection – Wrestlemania XX
58. Team Orton vs Team Triple H – Survivor Series 2004
57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005
56. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 11 November 2005
(★★★¾)
55. Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho vs Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan vs Kane (Elimination Chamber) – Elimination Chamber 2013
54. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight) – Smackdown, 4 November 2011
53. Randy Orton vs Antonio Cesaro – Main Event, 8 May 2013
52. Randy Orton vs Shelton Benjamin – Bad Blood 2004
51. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Smackdown, 18 May 2012
50. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 18 August 2005
49. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2004
48. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs JBL vs John Cena – Backlash 2008
47. Randy Orton vs Ric Flair – Taboo Tuesday 2004
46. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Raw, 12 January 2004
45. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Smackdown, 14 June 2013
44. Randy Orton vs Kane (Falls Count Anywhere) – Extreme Rules 2012
43. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan – Smackdown, 21 June 2013
42. Randy Orton vs John Cena (Ironman) – Bragging Rights 2009
41. Randy Orton vs Rob Van Dam – Armageddon 2003
40. Randy Orton vs Christian (Steel Cage) – Smackdown, 30 August 2011
39. Randy Orton vs John Cena – SummerSlam 2007
38. Randy Orton vs Mark Henry – Night of Champions 2011
37. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 30 December 2005
36. Randy Orton vs Sheamus – Hell in a Cell 2010
35. Randy Orton vs John Cena (I Quit) – Breaking Point 2009
(★★★★)
34. Randy Orton & Team Hell No vs The Shield – Raw, 3 June 2013
33. Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Edge – Raw, 19 July 2010
32. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (Street Fight) – Raw, 24 June 2013
31. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 13 December 2004
30. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – Raw, 22 June 2009
29. The Royal Rumble Match – Royal Rumble 2009
28. Randy Orton vs Edge – Vengeance 2004
27. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Triple H – Wrestlemania XXIV
26. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005
25. Randy Orton vs Edge – Raw, 30 April 2007
24. Rated RKO vs DX – New Year’s Revolution 2007
23. Evolution vs Chris Benoit, Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels & Shelton Benjamin – Raw, 12 April 2004
22. Randy Orton vs John Cena vs Edge vs Shawn Michaels – Backlash 2007
21. Randy Orton vs Christian – Smackdown, 6 May 2011
20. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Raw, 16 August 2004
19. Randy Orton & Cowboy Bob Orton Jr. vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005
18. Team Bischoff vs Team Austin – Survivor Series 2003
(★★★★¼)
17. Evolution (Orton, Flair & Batista) vs Chris Benoit, Edge & Jericho – Raw, 14 June 2004
16. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – No Way Out 2006
15. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005
14. Team Smackdown vs Team Raw – Survivor Series 2005
13. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – Smackdown, 13 January 2006
12. Randy Orton vs Undertaker – Wrestlemania 21 
11. Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels – Survivor Series 2007
10. Randy Orton vs John Cena – No Way Out 2008
(★★★★½)
9. Randy Orton vs Christian (No Holds Barred) – SummerSlam 2011
8. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit (No Holds Barred) – Smackdown, 27 January 2006
7. Randy Orton vs Triple H (Last Man Standing) – No Mercy 2007
6. Randy Orton vs Triple H vs Batista vs Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho (Elimination Chamber) – New Year’s Revolution 2005 
5. Randy Orton vs Christian – Over the Limit 2011
4. Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio – Smackdown, 7 April 2006
3. Randy Orton vs Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) – Armageddon 2005
2. Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit – SummerSlam 2004
(★★★★¾)
1. Randy Orton vs Cactus Jack (Hardcore Match) – Backlash 2004


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2nd Fav Orton/Taker match would be SS probably, though I do adore the handicap casket match involving BOB too. As for Benoit, likely the NHB SD 06 match.

I could do with watching the entire Christian series again tbh. Not sure where I'd put any of them. No doubt one or two would slip into my top 15 for Orton though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton Top 5:

(****1/4)
1) vs. Christian OTL 11
2) vs. Edge vs. Cena vs. HBK BL 07
3) vs. Edge vs. HHH vs. Batista vs. Jericho vs. Benoit NYR 05
4) vs. Undertaker WM21
(****)
5) vs. Christian SS 11


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent list, C2D. Thanks for getting me into some of Randy's other matches that aren't talked about as much.

Top 10 RKO matches for me:

vs. Benoit SS 04
vs. Foley BL 04
vs. Christian OTL 11
NYR 05
vs. Undertaker HIAC
vs. Christian SS 11
vs. Undertaker SS 05 (DAT SUMMERSLAM RANDY!)
vs. Mysterio NWO 06
8-Man Tag 2004
vs. Mysterio Smackdown 06

Very impressive catalog from a guy that I underrate at times. I still think that 2011 is his best year workrate wise (carrying Otunga to a good match is nothing short of a miracle), but Legend Killer Orton is scary good at every aspect of wrestling.

I would love to do a similar project with Punk or Bret after I finish my top 10 for DDP, but those guys have been done to death. Top 100 Foley perhaps? Jericho? 

Some other ratings for matches I just watched:

Orton/Batista vs. Benoit/Edge: ******
Edge/Jericho/Benoit vs. Evolution 8/2/04 (Not the elimination tag): ******
Orton/Batista vs. Edge/Jericho: ****3/4*
HHH vs. Tajiri: *****
Flair/Batista vs. Benoit/Edge 4/19/04: ******

Is it even a debate anymore? Benoit was king in 2004.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> *ATF's Top 80 SummerSlam Matches*


Great post! I don't remember that Hart Foundation/Brain Busters match, so I'm going to have to check it out again.

Curious to see what your #1 will be....



Choke2Death said:


> I know that you randomly found out about Orton but this story is a new one for me. Interesting and I really mean it.
> 
> 
> I see what you mean. Personally, I have only watched wrestling for a few years but the moment I laid eyes on Orton, he caught my attention and instantly became one of my favorites. He has that aura and physical charisma where you have to pay attention when you see him, at least as a newbie.


I agree with all of this. And oh, ok @ the Cena explanation.

You should do a Benoit list. That would also be helpful...




Choke2Death said:


> And if anyone wants the list with star ratings along with it, here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I like reading star ratings for some reason! lol.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I would love to do a similar project with Punk or Bret after I finish my top 10 for DDP, but those guys have been done to death. Top 100 Foley perhaps? Jericho?


Always interesting in hearing the takes of people, especially since you write good reviews, from what I've seen.

You should do both Bret and Punk, and I'm saying that selfishly, because I'm interested in both. The Punk would be a good guide for me, since I missed a lot of wrestling. But I'd love to hear your Bret ones first.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Seriously Cena/Batista from SS 08 is one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Great list C2D, didnt make us wait to long either which was great

Havent seen many Orton matches except the BIG ones, but those evolution tags, Benoit SD matches and REY 05 match got my attention

top Randell Viper All-Star matches
1) Foley BL 04
2) Rey sd 06
3) christian otl
4) nyr 05

Never seen nm with hunter or any vs.taker match besides wm 21 or nwo with cena

@lilOLME that orton/cena match may actually be the worst of their series, if you love that orton character and John boy check out breaking point


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Some other ratings for matches I just watched:
> 
> Orton/Batista vs. Benoit/Edge: ******
> Edge/Jericho/Benoit vs. Evolution 8/2/04 (Not the elimination tag): ******
> ...


I had considered the first and third matches for the list but decided against it. With your high ratings for both, I think I might actually go through Raw in 2004 again. Remember it was an awesome year and nearly all the episodes are up on youtube now so it's all a matter of searching for them. Benoit, Orton and Eddie were absolute boss in 2004!



LilOlMe said:


> You should do a Benoit list. That would also be helpful...


I would try but it would be way too huge. It was easy with Orton because he's always been with one company and he's wrestled consistently for just a decade. It also made the process faster that I have been spending the past year watching some of the full years from the last decade. With Benoit, he's been all over the world and has twice the amount of matches for two decades. I'm happy about how this Orton list turned out to be and really satisfied with it but I find it too time consuming to do large lists like that. So for now, I might do a top SummerSlam matches list (although ATF already snatched this idea) with the PPV coming up but haven't planned anything else.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> Seriously Cena/Batista from SS 08 is one of my favorite matches ever.


It's a favorite of mine as well. It was the two biggest stars of that era, as faces, going at it. It's a shame they couldn't put it on a PPV where the Taker/Edge feud was ending, because it did deserve to main event based on that said their star power. I mean the 2010 matches were fine and all, but they didn't have the big-time feel of the Summerslam match, and that combined with the match itself just being great makes it the best of the bunch imo.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Loooooved Test V Shane at SS 1999. Really thought Test was gonna be a house hold name. 

Is there a better Summerslam than 2002? Is there a better ppv card ever than Summerslam 2002? LOVE that PPV. Also love 1992. This year has the potential to rival a lot of Summerslams.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Seriously Cena/Batista from SS 08 is one of my favorite matches ever.


Hell yeah. (Y)

Re-watched the WHC MITB from Sunday and I still love it. Fandango's sunset flip powerbomb, Barrett beating the fuck out of people with the rung, the Shield/Usos run-ins, Cody Rhodes going hard at the end and getting the whole crowd behind him and Cesaro/Swagger's circus act. ****1/4

Still doesn't beat the '10 and '11 SD MITB matches but I absolutely love it.

Also: Fandango/Christian right now on Main Event has been very entertaining.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Lady Killer said:


> Seriously Cena/Batista from SS 08 is one of my favorite matches ever.


I never taught any of their matches were bad but were top quality stuff. They had chemistry in the ring that's for sure. Batista Heel work was great probably his best work. Their WM26 match I think is underrated.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> @lilOLME that orton/cena match may actually be the worst of their series, if you love that orton character and John boy check out breaking point


Thanks, I will check that out next.

Re-watching Orton vs. Cena Hell In a Cell, and it's worth the price of admission alone, for Orton trying to get the staircases over the top rope, and botching instead. It's made all the funnier by the fact that he seems to really be taking his time to measure, to ensure that he gets it over the top rope correctly...and he still doesn't! lol 

It hits the top rope, and then falls toward him again. The crowd immediately starts mocking him, so he makes an obscene gesture toward them. :lmao

How did I not notice that the first time?! I guess that maybe I did, but I feel like I would have remembered that.



Brye said:


> Re-watched the WHC MITB from Sunday and I still love it. Fandango's sunset flip powerbomb, Barrett beating the fuck out of people with the rung, the Shield/Usos run-ins, Cody Rhodes going hard at the end and getting the whole crowd behind him and Cesaro/Swagger's circus act. ****1/4


I agree, it was a great match. I don't think that any of the other matches that night came close (not counting the Shield tag match, because I haven't watched that one yet).



> Still doesn't beat the '10 and '11 SD MITB matches but I absolutely love it.


What would you say is the best MITB match in history?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best MITB? Probably the first one. Everything about it was fantastic. From Benjamin stealing the show, Benoit's selling and just great work from Edge/Kane/Jericho/Christian.

But I love MITB IV too. Tons of innovative spots and just overall fun.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

MITB 1 is by far the greatest of its kind, everything from Benoit's selling of the arm and exerting a audible sympathetic reaction from the crowd, Edge showing his first true signs of the ultimate opportunist by slamming a chair on an already wounded competitor to secure the win, Shelton's excellent spot work with no contrivity or predictable execution, Kane resurrecting his much needed Big Red Machine phase by reeking havoc at every turn, ala splash off top rope, chokeslam off the ladder and sitting up from the flying headbutt, along with Jericho and Christian's fine working, It was all perfectly executed.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I still can't rate Orton/Christian from Summerslam as high as most. It's just SO one sided, especially near the end. Poor Christian...

I bet if the card was made like it should be this year, Summerslam could definitely rival the quality from 2002. Think about this as a card:

Punk vs. Lesnar
Cena vs. Bryan
Del Rio vs. Ziggler No DQ or NHB or Cage Match to keep AJ/Big E out or something
Shield vs. Usos vs. Real Americans
Axel vs. RVD
Rhodes vs. Sandow
Christian vs. Ambrose

Oh who am I kidding, that's not 2002 level...


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Beating 2002 would be very tough..


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death, I think that one of the things that I find interesting about Orton, is that I feel that he succeeded in nailing that character, even though it doesn't really seem to pull from much of his life. The best and most successful characters usually are just exaggerated versions of a wrestler's own natural personality. That's why they ring true.

Since that was my first time ever seeing Orton, I got the feeling that he must be some misanthropic, oddball, weirdo person in real life, in order to be able to pull that off so well. Like, there must be some real eccentric quality in him to pull that off. 

So then to read about him, and to see him in his smarmy, smug, almost frat boy-like previous incarnation, really drove home how talented Orton must be to have pulled that role off. I had him pegged in my head as TOTALLY different than what he actually is. 

And I also thought that he was British. :lol He came off as British to me in that role for some reason!

It's really to his credit how much he made me believe he was some really weirdish guy.

He doesn't get enough credit or props around here at all, based on what I'm seeing of him.


Btw, thanks, Brye & Fluze! Will check MITB I out.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOLMe since your just getting into current day wwe, you should watch some matches from the future and greatest sports entertainer today :ziggler3, I posted some of his best matches a couple pgs ago


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Could you link me, please? That's something I'd definitely appreciate. I have a lot of catching up to do...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I bet if the card was made like it should be this year, Summerslam could definitely rival the quality from 2002. Think about this as a card:
> 
> Punk vs. Lesnar
> Cena vs. Bryan
> ...


That is a damn good card but yeah duplicating the card from Summerslam 2002 will probably never happen again. There were 15 guys in 8 matches that were WWE or World champions. eddie:flair:kurtHHH2:edge2:taker:rock2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just bought WrestleMania 27 for five bucks. Why not? Worth it alone for Rhodes getting his biggest career win.

Finishing up WrestleMania 28 on blu-ray atm. Yeah, that stuff is CRISP as expected. Not so sure I want to watch Cena vs Rock. Nothing against the match more or less. I'm just way too passionate a Cena fan to care to see him job to a guy who stopped being "The Rock" in 2004. Can't tolerate his crap to the point of where it's overwhelming. Everything else pardon the disgusting opener is up to par. I still enjoy Undertaker vs Triple H. For all the gripes people have, I can understand 'em. Doesn't bother me any. It's fun & the right man wins. 20-0!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I watched disc 1 of the best PPV matches of 2012 on blu ray. Taker V HHH was great but I like their WM 27 match better. Hell their WM 17 match is damn good I think.

It's a bummer Rock didn't come back like 06-07ish. A match and feud with him and HBK would have been epic.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't believe I took the time to argue with SinJackal of all people in that Lesnar/Punk thread. The man foolishly thought that CM Punk does not play off the size difference in his matches against bigger guys. At least I got the opportunity to rewatch some nice matches.

CM Punk vs. Batista GAB 08: ****1/4*
Very short and had a horrible ending, but this was very good for the time they were given. Punk kept his distance from Batista and based his offense on strikes and cruiserweight maneuvers, while Batista tossed Punk around and hit him with powerslams and spinebusters. Just as this match was about to heat up, stupid Kane appears and ruins everything. A shame that their rematch on RAW was one of the worst Punk matches ever. These guys could have had a great match.

CM Punk vs. Kane 6/1/12: ****3/4*
The very hidden gem of Punk's historic title reign, and the best match that these two had together. Psychology, psychology, psychology. Every single move here made sense. Punk hit some real cool counters here to Kane's moves, while also attacking Kane's legs. A really cool spot here occurs where Punk lifts Kane up for the GTS, but Kane is too heavy for Punk to carry and he topples over. Finishing sequence was hot and exciting here and this match didn't have any of the negatives or plodding pace that typical Kane matches have.

Michaels vs. Jericho 9/20/04: ****1/2*
Another hidden gem, especially for those who are a big fan of their chemistry (not for you, Cody/Yeah >_>). Only match I can think of between these two where Jericho isn't the heel. Both guys wrestle cautiously, but intelligently. They also had a mini-story going here of "anything you can do, I can do better" with the way they exchanged moves in the early going, which is pretty cool considering what their feud was about back in 2003. Michaels works the leg here while Jericho attacks the back. I will admit that I am a biased observer since this is probably my favorite feud of all-time, but in ten minutes, these guys put on a strong match. Nice callback too to the finish of their WM match.

Meng/Giant 9/14/98
Not going to rate this, but this is so much fun. Only three minutes, but not a single second is wasted. PLEASE watch this if you want FUN. here it is, so you have no excuse of not watching it.


Spoiler: bah


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 plugged the Giant vs Meng match too & I watched it asap considering I didn't even remember it happened. It's AWESOME. 

Sheesh, didn't even know Shawn worked vs a face Jericho before 2008. Match went right over my head. I'm sure I can find some good in that.

Punker vs Batista from GAB is quality. Real good stuff. Punk's roundhouse kick legit knocks Batista down. That got a grand reaction from me. Probably b/c of surreal it was seeing the much larger man just being rocked by a straight up kick to the skull. Despite the bad finish, I look upon it in some pretty high regard.

Cena vs Rock I does suck. Problem with it was the length. It had zero business going as long as it did. Giving fans the whole "more bang for your buck" with it being thirty minutes sounds like a rewarding plan on paper. It wasn't. If it went about fifteen or maybe close to twenty, then yeah, it would have been good. I liked the first half of the match. Once Rock got gassed it all went to hell. It's the reverse of how the rematch went. Good start; bad finish for 28. 29 had a bad overall & pretty good finish in consideration with the callbacks. I didn't care for the finisher-fest aspect of it, but the storytelling mixed in was a definite positive in a match that was mostly negative.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The epic burial of Maven at New Years Revolution 2005 is hilarious. He barely wrestles in a six minute match. Then demands a rematch against Shelton only to lose in five seconds. All he did after that was team with Simon Dean.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I loved the Maven/Simon Dean team.
But I loved Simon Dean in general


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always wanted me a Simon shake.

-----------

*WWE Intercontinental Championship*

Curtis Axel(c) vs Mike Mizanin ~ _WWE Money in the Bank 2013_​
One of the few people out there who is fine with this match. I liked the approach of Miz getting Heyman banned from ringside. It wasn't as calculated or impressive as Del Rio's from Payback to get Langston booted. A nice touch to the match nonetheless. It gave Axel that needed chance to win a match clean. No Heyman. No BS. Flat out prove his point. A tiny portion of this didn't light the world on fire. Axel uses his rest work for a touch and then it gets back to some pretty standard, albeit, solid WWE type offensive work. One gripe I had was Miz's stuff leading into the Figure Four. Which is a common gripe whenever I see him work with it these days. He jams Axel's knee; then proceeds to tie up the other leg for the hold. Umm. Why, dude? No bother I guess. I mean it is, but the show goes on and eventually Axel actually makes the sequence last. He doesn't tap, he reverses it, it's reversed back, he grabs the ropes and we're still good to go. Axel shows cunning and eventually puts away Miz. Cool. A solid affair for me. I normally hate Miz matches ever since he went face so me accepting this for what it was is actually a very real positive. Wished Axel won by the Perfect-Plex instead. Then again, the guy does have three seemingly credible moves to finish off people with. Unsure which will do it on the given night.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Cena-RVD from ONS 2006 is just a squash with the surprise win in the end. People praise its hardcore atmosphere but the actual working is dull and typically a pre-seasoned Cena show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Absolutely. That match sucks. Their rematch from RAW following Vengeance is loads better. It's actually competitive and shows the work of both men. Not Cena dominating in the hardcore environment to tick off the ECW fans only with that final result which appeased them in the end.

Love RVD. Glad he got the championship. Didn't exactly like the way it went down, tbf.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Absolutely. That match sucks. Their rematch from RAW following Vengeance is loads better. It's actually competitive and shows the work of both men. Not Cena dominating in the hardcore environment to tick off the ECW fans only with that final result which appeased them in the end.


Gonna have to check it out, thanks for shout, Obfus. Would you rank it ahead of Edge-RVD from Vengeance? I liked that match. It's not that Cena was bad in the ONS match, It's just that everything was done to bring fourth outrage from the crowd, it seems as if it was only worked with the physical audience in mind. You can easily tell from the extended squash period, Cena's troll-like facial expressions and him wallowing in the crowd's verbal responses.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It could be. I'm a fan of Van Dam vs Edge too and I can say I probably have that over Van Dam vs Cena II by a hair. The rematch is only about seven minutes and some change, btw.

Again, I agree. It's just that the match was simply, well, that: an extended squash. Not one that was particularly engrossing either. Cena did his thing dominating Van Dam. Getting the reaction from the fans, blah blah blah. Van Dam tries his comeback, its thwarted. Cena gets owned by Edge. And we know the rest. That's the match in a nutshell. Much like WrestleMania 22 vs Trips in the same year; despite the electric atmosphere they're matches I've never been a fan of. Don't think the work in the ring follows up on par with how the fans are reacting to the action seen.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

In regards to this years Summerslam rivaling 2002, I agree it would be tough but its also kind of hard to compare seeing as how loved that PPV is and the fact that time is on its side. Well see what hapens after the PPV and let some time fly to see if 2013's holds up.




funnyfaces1 said:


> I can't believe I took the time to argue with SinJackal of all people in that Lesnar/Punk thread. The man foolishly thought that CM Punk does not play off the size difference in his matches against bigger guys. At least I got the opportunity to rewatch some nice matches.


Dont know why you bothered bro lol. Its a shame Punk/Lesnar is going to have so much size talk. Sure, some are trolls, but some generally do believe in this size mess. Oh well.



HayleySabin said:


> Not so sure I want to watch Cena vs Rock. Nothing against the match more or less. I'm just way too passionate a Cena fan to care to see him job to a guy who stopped being "The Rock" in 2004. Can't tolerate his crap to the point of where it's overwhelming.
> 
> Cena vs Rock I does suck. Problem with it was the length. It had zero business going as long as it did. Giving fans the whole "more bang for your buck" with it being thirty minutes sounds like a rewarding plan on paper. It wasn't. If it went about fifteen or maybe close to twenty, then yeah, it would have been good. I liked the first half of the match. Once Rock got gassed it all went to hell. It's the reverse of how the rematch went. Good start; bad finish for 28. 29 had a bad overall & pretty good finish in consideration with the callbacks. I didn't care for the finisher-fest aspect of it, but the storytelling mixed in was a definite positive in a match that was mostly negative


Meh. Its not that he stopped being The Rock. He's just more of a hybrid these days. I really, really dont understand why people keep saying things like this. He hasn't stopped being The Rock. I guarantee if Rock dropped Hollywood and truly worked back to having a true final run, put in the same passion and drive into WWE again as he does movies, he'd still be much of the same. But he doesn't have that time or will to do it. Nor does he really need to do so. So it is what it is.

As For Cena/Rock I agree with your feel on the matches. Just that personally, "suck" for Match 1 is a bit of a stretch but its not the greatest match in the world or anything. We've agreed in the past time wise was one of the biggest negative impacts on this match. And I still agree with that to this day.



MachoMadness1988 said:


> It's a bummer Rock didn't come back like 06-07ish. A match and feud with him and HBK would have been epic.


They should have done that in 2003. Hollywood Rock vs HBK should have been a given. I still agree Rock should have come back sooner though. He never really put in the time to truly get back in it, ring wise. Of course its hard as shit trying to do it on top of a film schedule and all. With the exception of SS 2011 though. It still remains his best individual ring performance since the 2011 return.

On another note, how'd you guys feel about Y2J's recent run with the guy seemingly out now to focus on Fozzy again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Call it what you will. The man who returned to "entertain" in 2011 is terrible.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Call it what you will. The man who returned to "entertain" in 2011 is terrible.


The man was The Rock.

His work wasnt your cup of tea and that is perfectly fine.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Rock's return was atrocious.

Great business wise because Rocky = MONEY.

But in ring and feud wise, it was just abysmal and at times embarrassing.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

2011 Rock was still great. It's just from 2012-13 that his mic level started to drop down.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Its really down to the fact that Rock really wasn't committed to going out there and knocking out the park. Clearly he didn't really put in the time. He has his reasons but it still stands. Not as bad as people make it out to be but not as good as people know he can be. Basically Rock was like the veteran going out there and having a good time. Kind of like Piper, Snuka, even Austin etc. Except instead of it being a one off every once in a while, he was doing it every single time as the recent years went on. Especially being in feuds and winning titles. He never left that special attraction mentality.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's Top 80 SummerSlam Matches*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

*The Grand Finale - Top 5

(****1/2)
#5
Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WWE Championship, 2003








It's a common view throughout the insightful views of the IWC all throughout the internet that Kurt Angle is seen by many as a God among mortals. His collection of matches that aren't really nearly as great as some make them to be (*cough*Benoit*cough) make him one of the most overrated wrestlers of the decade and arguably in WWE history. However, there are a couple of his matches that do live up to the hype given - like the Brock Lesnar matches. That's no surprise, since BORK can do virtually no wrong in the ring. While the WrestleMania 19 and Iron Man matches are the ones remembered the most, it's the SummerSlam match that truly sticks out in my opinion. Take Lesnar's superb selling from his Steel Cage match with HHH at this year's Extreme Rules, make it 10x even better, and you got SummerSlam 2003. Lesnar's selling did an amazing job of hiding Angle's psychology issues in the ring, which gave him the opportunity to being in his game. And when Angle is positively in his game, he really is a machine. The action, flow and storytelling were astonishing, the ending was good and made-sense, and the crowd was into it all the time. The story these two told on Phoenix that night is second to almost none.


(****3/4)
#4
Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart, Intercontinental Championship, 1991








The Biggest Party of the Summer is no stranger to the Intercontinental Title. As a matter of fact, it might just be the PPV that contains the absolute richest of the title's history. Some of it is the incredible performance put on by Curt Hennig and Bret Hart on the 1991 edition (which is best remembered by the Savage/Elizabeth wedding, which was beautiful too). While the build up and all such aren't really truly memorable (Hell, does anyone even remember any of the build up for this?), it didn't need it all. Because the wrestling alone here was FLAWLESS. The crowd was into it from the get go, going nuts by the end of the match, and rightfully so. The smoothness, the counters, the storytelling of Bret fighting his way from stratch to get to the (then) highly prestigious IC Title... mad props to both for putting such an incredible contest. The most impressive factor of them all is that Hennig was going through a severe back injury at the time, and still put on a terrific performance. Makes you wonder if Perfect wasn't injured. Easily one of the GOAT's who never won the WWF/E Title, RIP Curt Hennig. The only reason why it's not ***** for me is really because one or two minutes I found a little dull, but nonethless this was incredible.

(*****)
#3
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, WWF Championship, 2001








It's a hard pill to swallow for all the Kurt Angle marks out there, but unless he's in a match with a guy who REALLY knows what he's doing there (not counting Benoit, though), he sucks. Pure said, right there, come to me now. Lucky for him, Steve f*cking Austin knows what he's doing, and might just be one of the most criminally underrated guys ever when it comes to pure wrestling. Everybody remembers him as a brawler, as a guy who wrestles gimmick matches and all of that. What about everything else the guy did, from his excellent run in WCW as Stunning Steve, from his matches with Bret and Owen... He's awesome. 2001 was one of his best years ever, easily, and this match was the icing on the cake. Much like Lesnar in 2003, Austin's brilliant selling blew away any indication of Angle's problems with in-ring psychology, and actually made them add something to the match. But credit where is due: Angle played the role of the fighting guy who goes through every damn obstacle that's thrown at him with perfection. But Austin played the role of the calculating, methodical, psycho-like mastermind heel with even more perfection. Everything they did in this only added more to the amazing story they told, from the barricade Ankle Lock, to the 3 Stunners. And the ending? DQ or not, that was booking GENIUS, as it made Angle's inevitable future title victory even bigger. Just amazing, amazing, amazing.

#2
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, Steel Cage match for the WWF Championship, 1994








Have you ever seen two guys make everything look so natural and so smooth and all just like perfect... inside a freaking Steel Cage?! I'd pardon to say no. Bret and Owen could make a Scaffold match look like Taker/Shawn matches together, I'll tell you this. It's only one of 5 matches Dave Meltzer gave ***** from the WWE... though Meltzer's opinion and mine don't come together at all the time, I'm just using him as a reference. Anyway, most people remember WrestleMania 10 from these two, and with reason. Hell, I think that match is Top 5 EVER in WWF/E history. But screw me, isn't their Cage match on par with it as far as quality is concerned. The brawling in this match was vicious enough where you'd think these two legit wanted to beat the crap out of each other, and unlike most spotty Cage matches, every spot made here actually made sense and was sold like it. Yes, including stuff like the Suplex into inside the cage. There was a little of emotion, there was physicality, and there was some awesome storytelling. The Chicago crowd was, as expected, greatly into it as well.

But if you think it can't get any more perfect than this...

#1
Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, Intercontinental Championship, 1992








Like him or not, Bret Hart is one of the greatest ever. No doubt about that. And this match is The Bret Hart Show, simply put. It's a carryjob essentially. British Bulldog was only there to take Bret's bumps and moves, do a couple of his own and then pin. But screw me, overrated or not, this IS the greatest carryjob I've ever seen in that sake.

In front of a hometown crowd of 80,000+ in Wembley, Bulldog was made to look a star up against one of the best ever. The wrestling was superb, as there was a feel of legitimacy in every single move thrown inside the ring that night. The selling and bumps and all of that was ALL Bret (hence The Bret Hart Show), but let's not completely take Davey Boy's credibility away right there - he did more than his role. The crowd was nuts all the way through, the storytelling was submersive like hell too as it made you legit want Bulldog to win that night, and even though it's just wrestling, you really were rooting for him that night, like your favourite football team in a Superbowl. And there was the emotion factor too. In any other day, this would just be a Raw level match, but all of this happened in front of 80,000+ in Wembley. The atmosphere alone made it incredible. And Bulldog was the hometown hero, so the fear that Bret would retain that night was bigger than ever. It's pretty much Cena/Punk in Chicago, only 19 years before. And when Bulldog won - holy crap. It is the only IC Title Main Event on PPV ever, but screw me it was phenomenal. SummerSlam's greatest match ever if you ask me.*​


Spoiler: List



*Honorable Mentions*
Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler, 1993
Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano, 1995
The Undertaker vs. The A-Train, 2003
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, 2007
CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, 2012

*(***)*
80 - The Un-Americans vs. BookDust, 2002
79 - JeriShow vs. Cryme Tyme, 2009
78 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1990
77 - Bam Bam Bigelow & The Headshrinkers vs. Tatanka & The Smoking Gunns, 1993
76 - Rey Mysterio, John Morrison & Kofi Kingston vs. Alberto Del Rio, The Miz & R-Truth, 2011
75 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, 2000
74 - D-Generation X vs. The McMahons, 2006
73 - The Rockers vs. Power & Glory, 1990
72 - The Hart Foundation vs. Demolition, 1990
71 - The Legion Of Doom vs. Money Inc., 1992
70 - Kane & X-Pac vs. The Undertaker & The Big Show, 1999
69 - X-Pac vs. Tajiri, 2001
68 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, 2003
67 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, 2005
66 - CM Punk vs. JBL, 2008
65 - The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio, 2012
*(***1/4)*
64 - The Undertaker vs. Test, 2002
63 - Barry Horowitz vs. Skip, 1995
62 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, 1999
61 - The Rockers & Tito Santana vs. The Fabulous Rougeaus & Rick Martel, 1989
60 - Kane vs. Rey Mysterio, 2010
59 - Kane vs. Daniel Bryan, 2012
58 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, 1998
57 - Diesel vs. Razor Ramon, 1994
56 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, 1988
55 - Sheamus vs. Randy Orton, 2010
54 - The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, 1993
53 - D'Lo Brown vs. Val Venis, 1998
52 - Lance Storm vs. Edge, 2001
51 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, 2004
50 - X-Pac vs. Jeff Jarrett, 1998
*(***1/2)*
49 - Booker T vs. The Rock, 2001
48 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2002
47 - Hakushi vs. The 123-Kid, 1995
46 - The Rock vs. Triple H, 1998
45 - Triple H vs. Eugene, 2004
44 - Chris Jericho vs. Rhyno, 2001
43 - Sheamus vs. Mark Henry, 2011
42 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, 1989
*(***3/4)*
41 - Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero, 2005
40 - Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2012
39 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, 1995
38 - Rey Mysterio vs. Dolph Ziggler, 2009
37 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, 2009
36 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, 2012
35 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Rhyno vs. Tajiri, 2003
34 - Ted DiBiase vs. Virgil, 1991
33 - Edge vs. John Cena, 2006
32 - Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, 1998
31 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, 1996
*(****)*
30 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, 2007
29 - The Undertaker vs. Mick Foley, 1996
28 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, 2010
27 - Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett, 2011
26 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, 2002
25 - Chris Benoit vs. Rob Van Dam, 2002
24 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, 2009
23 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, 1992
22 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, 2005
21 - Owen Hart vs. Steve Austin, 1997
20 - John Cena vs. Batista, 2008
19 - Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, 2000
*(****1/4)*
18 - Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio, 2002
17 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, 2011
16 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Mankind, 1997
15 - The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, 1989
14 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho, 2005
13 - Shane McMahon vs. Test, 1999
12 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, 2008
*(****1/2)*
11 - Christian vs. Randy Orton, 2011
10 - Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, 2006
9 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, 2002
8 - Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardys, 2000
7 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, 2004
6 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, 1997
5 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, 2003
*(****3/4)*
4 - Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart, 1991
*(*****)*
3 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, 2001
2 - Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, 1994
1 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, 1992


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Big Dave Meltzer's star ratings for Money in the Bank.

WHC MITB Ladder Match ***3/4
Curtis Axel vs The Miz
Ryback V Chris Jericho **
Alberto Del Rio V Dolph Ziggler ***1/2
John Cena V Mark Henry ***1/4
WWE Title MITB Ladder Match ****1/2


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

****1/2 for the main event :lmao

I was disappointed by the main event, around *****

Everything else pretty similar except i'm a tad lower on the SD MITB and Ziggles/Del Riooo


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

LORD DAVE MELTZERS TOP RATED WWE MATCHES OF THE 2013 (so far) 4 star or above

Undertaker V CM Punk WM 29 ****1/2
John Cena V CM Punk Raw ****1/2
MITB WWE Title ****1/2
CM Punk V Chris Jericho Payback ****1/2
Antiono Cesaro V Kofi Kingston Main event ****1/4
Triple H V Brock Lesnar Extreme Rules ****
Elimination Chamber match EC ****
The Rock V CM Punk ****


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Which Rocky/CMPunk match is that?

Because both were awful. **** is a fucking joke. In fact i'm going to go and watch both and see if they change at all because at the moment both are DUDS but the RR match is the DUD OF ALL DUDS. 

Not looking forward to Cole's screaming at the Rumble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane & Batista vs Montel Vontavious Porter & Great Khali - WWE Smackdown 2/28/08​
No lie - this sleeper tag ended up being more kinds of awesome than I originally anticipated. Especially since I'm not much of a fan of three out of the four. That in consideration with how Porter had a majority dreadful '08. All of that was put on hold once this came around. Tag team formula was held in tact and done in actual good fashion. Commentary spoke about how they weren't sure Khali knew how to work in a tag team match and let me tell ya, he proved them wrong. The double FIP segments on both Kane & Batista came out strong here along with - and arguably more importantly considering the duo - the Porter/Khali domination workover segments actually interested me. Does tag wrestling bring out the best in everyone or what? Fun stuff. I was left calling it awesome once it was all over. Hey, maybe this is a gem that only I'll be high on. That's fine enough. I figured I'd make the plug on here b/c well, it's not too often you get someone raving much about a Khali match in any capacity. Although I've actually found myself liking more matches from him than some others. The ol _"I can't even name five matches from Khali I like"_ theory has been shattered for me. I have five right off the top of my head. How does that happen? What can I say, his simplistic giant smasher approach has its times when it worked. Then there was Cesaro carrying him this year. Plus, he looks like a boss when he completely plunks Kane in the back of the head with his Baba chop. He does the same to Batista during a hot streak to quell his momentum too. I love when a heel sucks the life out of fans with one blow. Another fun note here is how good a Batista hot tag can be. Always said he's better in bursts than collective moments during matches. That's where he got to excel once he was tagged in. Not to mention the crowd eats every bit of it up. Never quite realized how truly over this guy was during his time. Probably b/c I only started to pay attention when he turned heel. I liked this; a lot. Wrestling is the greatest and one of the greater things about it is once you stumble upon a sleeper bout. One you expect to not deliver for any number of reasons and then proceeds to jump notches above expectations. Left very satisfied.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ Rock/Punk getting 4 stars. I think it's the Rumble match that gets it. :lol

The MITB ratings are on point imo if he takes away one star from the main event.



LilOlMe said:


> Choke2Death, I think that one of the things that I find interesting about Orton, is that I feel that he succeeded in nailing that character, even though it doesn't really seem to pull from much of his life. The best and most successful characters usually are just exaggerated versions of a wrestler's own natural personality. That's why they ring true.
> 
> Since that was my first time ever seeing Orton, I got the feeling that he must be some misanthropic, oddball, weirdo person in real life, in order to be able to pull that off so well. Like, there must be some real eccentric quality in him to pull that off.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's amazing how well he's been able to play two completely different characters so well. And some people call him one dimensional... lol. But his 2009 work was also exaggerated at times because he made some weird facial expressions that felt so over the top and unrealistic.

When you look at him now and compare it to his previous incarnation from 8-9 years ago, it's as if they are two completely different people. His face has aged more, his hair is almost completely cut, he's added a bunch of tattoos on his arms, his skin is darker and occasionally he grows a beard.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

What did Big Dave give ADR/Ziggler PB? 'Cause I'd put that above everything on his list, barring Punk vs. Cena/Taker. 

And quite comfortably I might add.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Duke Silver said:


> What did Big Dave give ADR/Ziggler PB? 'Cause I'd put that above everything on his list, barring Punk vs. Cena/Taker.
> 
> And quite comfortably I might add.


***1/2 for both Payback and Money in the Bank


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Kane & Batista vs Montel Vontavious Porter & Great Khali - WWE Smackdown 2/28/08​
> No lie - this sleeper tag ended up being more kinds of awesome than I originally anticipated. *Especially since I'm not much of a fan of three out of the four.* That in consideration with how Porter had a majority dreadful '08. All of that was put on hold once this came around. Tag team formula was held in tact and done in actual good fashion. Commentary spoke about how they weren't sure Khali knew how to work in a tag team match and let me tell ya, he proved them wrong. The double FIP segments on both Kane & Batista came out strong here along with - and arguably more importantly considering the duo - the Porter/Khali domination workover segments actually interested me. Does tag wrestling bring out the best in everyone or what? Fun stuff. I was left calling it awesome once it was all over. Hey, maybe this is a gem that only I'll be high on. That's fine enough. I figured I'd make the plug on here b/c well, it's not too often you get someone raving much about a Khali match in any capacity. Although I've actually found myself liking more matches from him than some others. The ol _"I can't even name five matches from Khali I like"_ theory has been shattered for me. I have five right off the top of my head. How does that happen? What can I say, his simplistic giant smasher approach has its times when it worked. Then there was Cesaro carrying him this year. Plus, he looks like a boss when he completely plunks Kane in the back of the head with his Baba chop. He does the same to Batista during a hot streak to quell his momentum too. I love when a heel sucks the life out of fans with one blow. Another fun note here is how good a Batista hot tag can be. Always said he's better in bursts than collective moments during matches. That's where he got to excel once he was tagged in. Not to mention the crowd eats every bit of it up. Never quite realized how truly over this guy was during his time. Probably b/c I only started to pay attention when he turned heel. I liked this; a lot. Wrestling is the greatest and one of the greater things about it is once you stumble upon a sleeper bout. One you expect to not deliver for any number of reasons and then proceeds to jump notches above expectations. Left very satisfied.


Is it wrong that my mind jumped to you being a fan of BDV first before I realised you are a Kane fan?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

has Big Dave ever heard of the words "Storytelling"and "psychology" before. Im embarrassed by those two dolph/del rio ratings especially Payback. The funny thing is although I disagree with so many of his ratings, I agree wit hall of his FAMOUS ***** except the hart brothers cage


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

*Royal Rumble 2013
WWE Championship​**CM Punk* (c) vs. *The Rock*​
So here we go again, since the day this match happened i hated it. I felt it didn't flow right and had no structure to it and i've stuck to that every day since. I decided to re-watch this today and i have to say i was pleasantly surprised _until_ that fucking finish. 

This started quickly and was a lot of fun. Then as soon as they left the ring it took a turn for the worse. The table spots didn't work but you can't old that against either of these guys. Rock hit a nice Rock Bottom on the outside, that was a good spot. The match up to this point wasn't bad. It wasn't good but no where near the level i first thought. 

Then the lights went out...

Oh dear WWE, this was one of the most pathetic match endings in a long time. Michael Cole was *unbearable*, luckily the crowd in attendance didn't have to listen to him. JBL tried to shut him up but Cole kept on screaming, way over the top. So lights come back on (Cole still squealing) and Punk grabs Rock and pins him. Job done. Day 434 done. 

Nope. The awful face Vince McMahon makes an appearance and starts to strip Punk of his title until Rock stops him and orders the match to be restarted. So when did Rock start making matches? McMahon looked like a chump as did Punk. 

2 minutes into the restarted match, Punk has hit the Elbow - Rock kicks out. Rock hits the Elbow - 3 count. Weak. Seriously how shit did Punk look after that? 434 days as champion and it's over in a blink of an eye.

So yeah, not AS bad as i thought but that ending brings it down so much. It was the worst booking WWE could have done for this match. Thing is looking back, what pisses me off more than anything, NOTHING came from this. The Shield attack was forgotten and they moved onto Team Super Friends. Seriously? Biggest title match in forever and this is how it ends. 

*** HUGE improvement on my original score.

Next up is the EC bout which i originally thought was decent (compared to the Rumble) but again with a weak ending.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Is it wrong that my mind jumped to you being a fan of BDV first before I realised you are a Kane fan?


Very, considering BDV wasn't even in the match. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Very, considering BDV wasn't even in the match. :side:


Well I've officially lost it. Thought it was BDV & Khali. Instead it was MVP. Could have claimed some weird spelling error but I don't think you ever wrote "MVP" once. Bastard.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This is what I get for calling him by his full kayfabe name and not the initials. Truth be told, that's more of a NJPW kind of deal. 8*D

btw, I do like BDV. FATTIES.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

At least you didn't write all their names backwards.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

killeR


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What's worse: pretentious backwards order of names to appease the Japanese customs or not remembering the names of the Japanese wrestlers at all?

That's the real question.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> What's worse: pretentious backwards order of names to appease the Japanese customs or not remembering the names of the Japanese wrestlers at all?
> 
> That's the real question.


Definitely the pretentious backwards order one.

And I didn't KNOW the names. Can't remember what you don't know. Prick. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They all look too similar to have names. AMIRITE, Cal?

:hayley3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey, I ain't no racist. I may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a racist, but I am NOT a porn star.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There go my hopes of you being the next porn star to break into the wrestling biz.

Now who can I watch watering plants with such desire that it constantly causes women to be seduced at the very sight? </3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck knows. I don't water plants any more .

Uhh wrestling. ****1/4 for that match that time. Lacked something that could have made it *****.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well rats.

That match lacked proper selling at the final five second stretch. *-*****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bah what would you know. Fuck off and go fluff yourself up ready for Sabin's title match tonight, even though he's going to lose.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fourteen days. That's all he needs. There's that tiny glimmer of naivety hope.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Serious question: What are you guys anticipating the Cena/Bryan match to be like? MOTY?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I remember having the Rock/Punk match at ***3/4 at first but then it went down to a ***. Will probably watch it again to see how it holds up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Serious question: What are you guys anticipating the Cena/Bryan match to be like? MOTY?


I won't jump into that territory b/c I don't do that for anything. The potential is there. I can buy that mentality considering who's involved and the scale it's on. Not to mention for how over Danielson was last year and these two had their rocking match on RAW, I can only imagine what will be put forth this time around & how raucous Hollywood ends up being for either man. I'm incredibly pumped for it to say the least.

Cash-in impending or not, on paper I really am tearing my hair out that I wasn't able to hold up my end of the deal and try to attend this year's event. :$


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I won't jump into that territory b/c I don't do that for anything. The potential is there. I can buy that mentality considering who's involved and the scale it's on. Not to mention for how over Danielson was last year and these two had their rocking match on RAW, I can only imagine what will be put forth this time around & how raucous Hollywood ends up being for either man. I'm incredibly pumped for it to say the least.
> 
> Cash-in impending or not, on paper I really am tearing my hair out that I wasn't able to hold up my end of the deal and try to attend this year's event. :$


I'm pissed off too.  That being said, I'm looking up front row seats and they're like $1000. FUCK. Might spring for like 5th row for half that price.

As for the match, I think it will be off the charts to be honest. We know how on fire Bryan has been, and how over he is/will be in Hollywood. Guy is untouchable right now, and given a 20-30 minute main event title match against the top guy in the company, I expect a great atmosphere and an unbelievable match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Please don't tell me you would have tried for front row even if I was on board. That would have been all of my cash :lmao

I'm a bit on the fence with which will actually end the show: Cena vs Danielson for the top prize or the huge first time ever collision of Brock vs Punker. _(it's going to happen, we know.)_ Both have legitimate claims to the throne. So one will have to take the non-insulting "backseat" to the other. Crowd should blow up big for both so lets hope they don't tire themselves out in-between.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Please don't tell me you would have tried for front row even if I was on board. That would have been all of my cash :lmao
> 
> I'm a bit on the fence with which will actually end the show: Cena vs Danielson for the top prize or the huge first time ever collision of Brock vs Punker. _(it's going to happen, we know.)_ Both have legitimate claims to the throne. So one will have to take the non-insulting "backseat" to the other. Crowd should blow up big for both so lets hope they don't tire themselves out in-between.


:lmao Nah, I would've settled for cheap seats if you could've gone.

I kinda think Cena/Bryan will close the show, but if Orton cashes in, they might not since the crowd will riot and WWE typically likes to send people home happy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

And am I the only one who will be furious *when* Punk beats BROCK?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton's cash-in is so...weird. He claimed he was going to do it when Cena (or Danielson) least expect it, yet he basically said he was going to do it at SummerSlam. Doesn't that almost defeat the purpose?

oh, and HELL no. Punk defeating Brock would be insane. In the best way for me. It's just unfortunate both had to lose at WrestleMania this year. Taker was too much and Trips should have let it die at WM. I know Extreme Rules was great, but ehhh...


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> And am I the only one who will be furious *when* Punk beats BROCK?


 Depends if their feud is only for one match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Orton's cash-in is so...weird. He claimed he was going to do it when Cena (or Danielson) least expect it, yet he basically said he was going to do it at SummerSlam. Doesn't that almost defeat the purpose?
> 
> oh, and HELL no. Punk defeating Brock would be insane. In the best way for me. It's just unfortunate both had to lose at WrestleMania this year. Taker was too much and Trips should have let it die at WM. I know Extreme Rules was great, but ehhh...


Yeah, the Orton cash in sucks because it's basically inevitable that he'll cash in on Bryan and turn into a mega heel instantly. It's a good booking move, as Bryan will probably become even more over (if that's possible) chasing the title and a heel Orton, but it still blows because Bryan's title reign will last like 30 seconds as he succumbs to an RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~! 

Bryan beating Cena (cleanly, fingers crossed) should be a sight to behold, though.

You want Punk to win? 



Oliver-94 said:


> Depends if their feud is only for one match.


Touche.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, the Orton cash in sucks because it's basically inevitable that he'll cash in on Bryan and turn into a mega heel instantly. It's a good booking move, as Bryan will probably become even more over (if that's possible) chasing the title and a heel Orton, but it still blows because Bryan's title reign will last like 30 seconds as he succumbs to an RKO OUTTA NOWHERE~!
> 
> Bryan beating Cena (cleanly, fingers crossed) should be a sight to behold, though.
> 
> You want Punk to win?


I dislike it from the pure aspect of Randy already being 100% heel with the one exception that he just isn't atm. Nothing about the guy is a babyface. I don't see how cashing in will change anything considering it's no different of an action that he does atm. But, in the world of WWE logic, he'll probably cash in, then the next night in his celebration he'll put down the fans for some reason and that's that. The chase for Danielson will build to a great moment; it's the waiting that's going to be the hard part.

Would be immense.

I sure wouldn't object. Nor would I if Brock won. That's why I love the match. It's one where I'm going nuts at every turn. Already have with what's been given. Punk or Brock - that's about as win/win as Punk vs Undertaker, tbhayley. Still can't believe it's happening.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I dislike it from the pure aspect of Randy already being 100% heel with the one exception that he just isn't atm. Nothing about the guy is a babyface. I don't see how cashing in will change anything considering it's no different of an action that he does atm. But, in the world of WWE logic, he'll probably cash in, then the next night in his celebration he'll put down the fans for some reason and that's that. The chase for Danielson will build to a great moment; it's the waiting that's going to be the hard part.
> 
> Would be immense.
> 
> I sure wouldn't object. Nor would I if Brock won. That's why I love the match. It's one where I'm going nuts at every turn. Already have with what's been given. Punk or Brock - that's about as win/win as Punk vs Undertaker, tbhayley. Still can't believe it's happening.


Yeah, that's kinda how Orton's character has always been, aside from the initial babyface turn after beating Benoit. That's why I don't really like him atm. Can't rally behind him like I can other faces. 

I have high hopes for the BROCK/Punk match as well. I just have a hard time believing that Punk can beat BROCK, when BROCK beat the shit out of Cena and HHH, both of whom are much higher in status than Punk.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He lost to John-boy and Trips is a part time guy. Easy to believe with Punk being the next biggest thing to go to. Which only explains why the match is happening to begin with. It isn't like Brock skipped all of them and went to someone like Kane. Tenured, but not a mega star. The realism is there. Not to mention Punk has already succeeded where Triple H has failed during their program. More than enough to get behind right off the bat. Size shouldn't matter either considering Brock swarms anyone who could be placed in his path. The only people who are going to bring up that nonsense are those who don't want Punk to have this big of a match. b/c people can accept Eddie Guerrero working vs & defeating Brock no sweat. CM Punk does it, at a higher standing than Guerrero too, and all of a sudden the aspect of _"suspending reality"_ is now trying to be lifted. Doesn't work that way.

Which of course is a general comment towards those who are even trying to propose the question as to why this is happening.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, but Brock was a full-time guy back then. It's different now that he's only going to have a handful of opponents. For the record, I'm definitely not against the match. At all. I think it will be great and the Heyman factor creates an awesome storyline. Match makes perfect sense. I just don't know if I can buy Punk winning, but I'll reserve further judgments until it happens.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock's beast like tendencies were always around even while as a full time member. You can count the number of people who defeated him on hand when you think about it: Big Show, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit _(in a elimination match)_ & towards his final months Eddie Guerrero & Bill Goldberg. I really think that's all who defeated him in a legit capacity. So the theory of him losing to Guerrero at the time was still pretty far-fetched to some. Now that he's part time, he'll do his thing, dominate, split the wins & losses down the middle by the looks of it. Winning or losing he'll be fine vs Punk. Considering Punk is sticking around following the match and can easily spin the loss if he takes it or benefit from the mega win and ride that momentum back towards the top. There really isn't a negative for both men. Considering the topic spoken on, Brock losing hasn't killed any credibility for him yet and shouldn't do so this time around all b/c Punk is smaller in size. To me, that's never crossed my mind considering how big _(popular) _Punker is. It's only come across as a match I'd love to see and that would be a big deal at the same time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I don't think Brock losing means much anymore. It's not him losing that bugs me as much as the fact that I hope it comes off as believable. It took Cena a chain to the face and an AA on steel steps. It took Trips like three Pedigrees and God knows what else at Mania. What is Punk going to have to do? It better be a lot.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punk beating Brock sucks balls but since Orton is now being repushed, I can at least latch onto something else instead of being annoyed by them ruining Brock even further. And what's next for Brock after this feud? Please no rematches, I accept Brock losing if it prevents the feud from going any further. I'm still hopeful that BROCK will come out victorious, though. Bryan/Cena/Orton is what has my attention for SummerSlam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Empty the entire arsenal and catch him with a flash pin while he's dazed? It'll still be clean and Brock can look fine knowing it was a ton he took & momentum got the better of him at the end of the day. Back to basics wouldn't look bad. This is wrestling after all. WWE or not, that can't be forgotten.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Empty the entire arsenal and catch him with a flash pin while he's dazed? It'll still be clean and Brock can look fine knowing it was a ton he took & momentum got the better of him at the end of the day. Back to basics wouldn't look bad. This is wrestling after all. WWE or not, that can't be forgotten.


Yeah, that'd be fine. Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with the match or the likely outcome. I think I'm just jumping the gun and being a prick for no reason.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Punk is scrawny. That's the argument I assume against him working a top PPV program with Lesnar.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

For those who have seen it, how was the Bryan/Christian match from Smackdown last week?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> And am I the only one who will be furious *when* Punk beats BROCK?




You make it sound like Punk's 100% winning, I think Brock has more chance of winning tbh. If they want to build Lesnar for a big WrestleMania match then he needs to remain credible, Punk losing won't be too bad because he can get his redemption when he wins the Royal Rumble.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> You make it sound like Punk's 100% winning, I think Brock has more chance of winning tbh. If they want to build Lesnar for a big WrestleMania match then he needs to remain credible, Punk losing won't be too bad because he can get his redemption when he wins the Royal Rumble.


I mean, I'd like Brock to win, but I just don't see it happening. All Punk has done this year is lose (aside from his comeback match against Jericho). I think this will be their way to get Punk back on track again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The more I think about Punk/Lesnar happening the more :mark: I get. Can't wait to see what they produce. Punk does MMA training too so he could even resort to using some of that shit if he wants just to fuck with Lesnar or something. Could provide some cool moments anyway. The 2 main events for SummerSlam gonna fucking rock :mark:.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm looking forward to CM Punk destroying Curtis Axel.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I mean, I'd like Brock to win, but I just don't see it happening. All Punk has done this year is lose (aside from his comeback match against Jericho). I think this will be their way to get Punk back on track again.


Well I don't see a believable way that Punk can win tbh. If their match is a DQ match, then maybe Punk can find a convincing way to put Lesnar away, but in a straight up standard match Brock isn't losing to a GTS or Anaconda Vice.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Well I don't see a believable way that Punk can win tbh. If their match is a DQ match, then maybe Punk can find a convincing way to put Lesnar away, but in a straight up standard match Brock isn't losing to a GTS or Anaconda Vice.


Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make with Cody. Given what it has taken to put Brock away against his other two opponents since his return, it's going to have to take a hell of a lot from Punk. Idk why, but I just don't see him losing.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Punk will need to make use of those steel steps. The only thing that beats Brock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like Seabs' idea that he posted elsewhere regarding Punk/Lesnar:



Spoiler: Seabse's' Idea



I hope they drag this out up to Mania. Brock wins clean at Summerslam and Heyman spends the rest of the year taunting Punk about not being able to beat him and Brock. Then have Brock show up and cost Punk every shot at the title because like Heyman said that's all Punk lives for. Title match vs Cena, Royal Rumble, etc. Everytime Punk gets near an achievement Brock and Heyman come out to scupper it. Then Punk finally gets his revenge at Mania before moving on to win the title back. Ideally from a Heyman guy after Mania.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think the best thing to do is have Brock destroy Punk until he's unable to continue. He hits him with F5s, Kimura, Brock Lock, weapons and everything but Punk keeps kicking out. They could add some blood to it to make it more brutal but that's unlikely so they can just have Brock keep on destroying Punk and even put him through both announce tables then the referee sees that Punk is not responding so it ends in a no contest. Alternatively, Brock can make Punk pass out in one of his holds (a la Chris Benoit in 2003). That way, both look strong.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar needs to bust out the old BROCK LOCK at the very least, whether its for the finish or not.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Callamus said:


> I like Seabs' idea that he posted elsewhere regarding Punk/Lesnar:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That sounds a bit like Brock/HHH... well at least the general idea anyway. Brock wins first match, his opponent wins the second. Whether I want to see that or not depends on how great of a match they have. A big part of the reason I didn't want to see Lesnar/HHH again was because I didn't think their SS match was great. Then their Mania match ended up sucking, and then they still continued it into ER.

If we got a match like Cena/Brock though at SS, I'd love to see Punk/Brock a second time.

As far as the result, I think I like C2D's idea the best. Thing is neither man can really afford to lose, and his idea makes it so Punk looks really resilient and strong even in defeat, while Lesnar finally gets his win-loss record since returning on the positive side (more wins than losses). Plus it'll make Brock look like a beast.

However I'd be happy with Punk winning as well by some miracle. What I'd do for a Punk win is have the Brock/Punk match go as Brock/Cena did for most of the match, and then do what they did for the Brock/HHH SS match from when Brock's stomach injury was exposed. Have Punk expose that weakness to the fullest, even more so than HHH and have him be as relentless as he made himself out to be in the promo. At the same time, to avoid the Brock/HHH WM type ending where Brock just gets completely demolished at the end, have Brock still put up a strong fight and that all injuring the stomach did was bring Brock down to the point where Punk could fight an even battle with him, not completely get the upper-hand. Then maybe it ends with Punk getting two or three GTS' in a row similar to how he beat Jericho at Payback to beat Lesnar. 

Oh, and they have to make sure Punk hits Lesnar with the steel steps at some point. Can't have Brock lose without his kryptonite being used against him. unk4


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

I'd have Lesnar win. Punk just runs straight through Axel in convincing fashion at NOC. Does the same at OTL when Heyman employs Ryback for one night (bringing the Punk vs. Ryback storyline full circle.) Punk comes oh-so-close to getting his hands on Heyman the next night on Raw, but Lesnar shows up.

Punk vs. Lesnar II. Hell in a Cell. And Lesnar wins that one too, so that his next loss will actually mean something.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I think the best thing to do is have Brock destroy Punk until he's unable to continue. He hits him with F5s, Kimura, Brock Lock, weapons and everything but Punk keeps kicking out. They could add some blood to it to make it more brutal but that's unlikely so they can just have Brock keep on destroying Punk and even put him through both announce tables then the referee sees that Punk is not responding so it ends in a no contest. Alternatively, Brock can make Punk pass out in one of his holds (a la Chris Benoit in 2003). That way, both look strong.


This is probably the best idea, although I am pretty confident that this will be a Last Man Standing match based on Punk's promo. If that is the case, then do those exact same spots, but have Punk getting up from all of Lesnar's attacks. Then maybe play into Lesnar's stomach injury with Punk attacking Lesnar's midsection with weapons. Have Punk play as dirty as possible to make it somewhat believable. As Punk is about to get a believable "nearfall", somehow have Heyman interfere to assist Lesnar. End it with something similar to the Jericho/HHH LMS match with Lesnar winning. Everyone wins in that situation (assuming of course that this is a LMS match).

If they are to meet again, the rematch MUST happen in Chicago with Punk winning (dirty of course). In between that time, have Heyman hire people to get rid of Punk because he is still slightly disappointed that Lesnar did not truly dispose of Punk. A filler feud with The Shield along with some title matches where Punk puts over people could also help fill up time. This feud has serious potential to be one of the greatest of all-time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The BROCK mark in me kinda wants Lesnar to beat the shit out of Punk. :mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Duke Silver said:


> What did Big Dave give ADR/Ziggler PB? 'Cause I'd put that above everything on his list, barring Punk vs. Cena/Taker.
> 
> And quite comfortably I might add.


Yeah, I strongly disagree with his ADR/Ziggler PB rating, especially in light of him giving such high scores to Jericho/Punk and the A-team MITB match.

The opener MITB match was about a billion times more interesting and exciting than the closing one, IMO. The second one just had bigger stars.

It's probably the Punk/Heyman aspect that Meltzer likes, I think.



ATF said:


> *ATF's Top 80 SummerSlam Matches*
> 
> The Grand Finale - Top 5
> 
> ...


Great Summerslam top 5, ATF. I have to check out the Angle matches, since others have rated those quite highly as well.

Here's my review of the Bret/Bulldog Summerslam match, and here's my review of Bret/Owen Summerslam & Bret/Perfect Summerslam.


'skins, I don't know if you saw, but I asked you to link me to your Dolph list, please. I am very interested, and it will be very helpful when I start watching his old stuff. I have so much to catch up on!

Choke2Death, I don't know if you saw, but I had some more comments on Orton on page 1913 of this thread. You don't need to respond or anything, but I just wanted to make sure you saw the praise.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> The BROCK mark in me kinda wants Lesnar to beat the shit out of Punk. :mark:


That's the perfect outcome and maybe I'm lucky enough that they actually go for it. But as long as BORK doesn't lose and no rematches happen, everything is fine.



LilOlMe said:


> Choke2Death, I don't know if you saw, but I had some more comments on Orton on page 1913 of this thread. You don't need to respond or anything, but I just wanted to make sure you saw the praise.


I actually responded two pages later.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Nice!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF, your top 2 SS matches probably wouldn't make my top 30 . Your #2 probably wouldn't make the top 100 tbh .


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I actually responded two pages later.


Sorry, I don't know how I missed it. 



Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, it's amazing how well he's been able to play two completely different characters so well. And some people call him one dimensional... lol. But his 2009 work was also exaggerated at times because he made some weird facial expressions that felt so over the top and unrealistic.
> 
> When you look at him now and compare it to his previous incarnation from 8-9 years ago, it's as if they are two completely different people. His face has aged more, his hair is almost completely cut, he's added a bunch of tattoos on his arms, his skin is darker and occasionally he grows a beard.


The reason it doesn't bother me, and the reason why I don't even find it over the top, is because I was/am kind of viewing him as just that character. I can totally see why it'd seem weird and really OTT, for people who watched him before that. I couldn't even imagine if, like, Dolph suddenly became that, lol.

But just thinking of him as that guy alone, I found it compelling, and not really all that OTT. It was like he was fully committed, right down to his fingertips. Even when he was just standing in the aisle five minutes later. I admired that level of commitment. It probably helped that I had assumed that he really was authentically weird.

I don't know, I just really like it, and I vastly prefer it to his way more toned version right now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> ATF, your top 2 SS matches probably wouldn't make my top 30 . Your #2 probably wouldn't make the top 100 tbh .


I'm at least sure my #5 would make your fave five, Cal


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> ATF, your top 2 SS matches probably wouldn't make my top 30 . Your #2 probably wouldn't make the top 100 tbh .


Damn, why you hating on the Harts inside a steel cage? :lol



LilOlMe said:


> The reason it doesn't bother me, and the reason why I don't even find it over the top, is because I was/am kind of viewing him as just that character. I can totally see why it'd seem weird and really OTT, for people who watched him before that. I couldn't even imagine if, like, Dolph suddenly became that, lol.
> 
> But just thinking of him as that guy alone, I found it compelling, and not really all that OTT. It was like he was fully committed, right down to his fingertips. Even when he was just standing in the aisle five minutes later. I admired that level of commitment. It probably helped that I had assumed that he really was authentically weird.
> 
> I don't know, I just really like it, and I vastly prefer it to his way more toned version right now.


Since the first time I saw Orton was him playing a snake, I can see where you're coming from. But then once I became familiar with his previous character, I could never enjoy it the same way. I mean, he's still fully committed by making it look so natural but I just like his arrogant, "handsome" attitude and look because he shows much more charisma and is more of a joy to watch in the ring or when he's talking.

Can you define what exactly you mean when you call his character now "more toned"? I've noticed a few differences between him in 09 and now, and tbh, I like some of it. He's no longer trying too hard to sell his unstable image and it also feels a lot more like his old self when he talks because he's completely dropped the slow-talking and slow moving. Simply said, he comes across much more human which I prefer.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> I'm at least sure my #5 would make your fave five, Cal


Can't think of a better SS match than it lol .

And Hart/Hart cage match is soooo dull. And should never have been in a cage. And should never have happened. WM was near perfect. They ruined a good thing .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Do you like it better than Austin/Angle too?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep. ***** for Angle/Lesnar and ****3/4 for Austin/Angle. I'd have Hart/Perfect (also *****) above Austin/Angle too.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Since the first time I saw Orton was him playing a snake, I can see where you're coming from. But then once I became familiar with his previous character, I could never enjoy it the same way. I mean, he's still fully committed by making it look so natural but I just like his arrogant, "handsome" attitude and look because he shows much more charisma and is more of a joy to watch in the ring or when he's talking.
> 
> Can you define what exactly you mean when you call his character now "more toned"? I've noticed a few differences between him in 09 and now, and tbh, I like some of it. He's no longer trying too hard to sell his unstable image and it also feels a lot more like his old self when he talks because he's completely dropped the slow-talking and slow moving. Simply said, he comes across much more human which I prefer.


Yeah, I'm sure I'll really love that too, and I've enjoyed the few clips I've seen of him in that incarnation. I think it's just because that Viper character was so unique, and grabbed my attention immediately.

I meant to say "more toned down." I get the more human thing, and I totally agree, but I can't say that I really prefer it. Mainly because that more amped up, bizarre, version really stood out for me. Just the intensity and uniqueness alone. He seemed a lot more alive back then, so there was something in that character that really must have done something for him. I said earlier that it was amazing, because it doesn't seem to pull from his life much, but maybe I'm wrong about that. 

I totally get that he's much more human and relatable now, and therefore probably more enjoyable for most people. That "personal connection" factor seems to be a huge thing in wrestling. It's like I may feel more relatability now, but I felt more admiration then.

I still really like him now, don't get me wrong, and he's one of the people I'm most interested in seeing where he's going. But I have a feeling that him back then might become one of my favorite wrestlers & characters ever, once I start watching more from that era. 

What was the first year of Orton that you saw, btw? I'm kind of confused by when he was the whole Viper and Snake, and what was the difference? At HIAC vs. Cena in '09, that was the Viper character, right? Because that's what I've been talking about the whole time.


'skins, just got your PM. Thanks for the link! I'm bookmarking it, and I will post my thoughts once I start watching those Dolph matches.

What's Dolph vs. Del Rio ME? Is ME Money in the Bank?

Also, responding to you in the Bret thread now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ME = Main Event .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think I might do myself the aforementioned Benoit project, since I have a lot of time 8)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> And Hart/Hart cage match is soooo dull. And should never have been in a cage. And should never have happened. WM was near perfect. They ruined a good thing .


Funny, because I like the cage match more than WM.



LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, I'm sure I'll really love that too, and I've enjoyed the few clips I've seen of him in that incarnation. I think it's just because that Viper character was so unique, and grabbed my attention immediately.
> 
> I meant to say "more toned down." I get the more human thing, and I totally agree, but I can't say that I really prefer it. Mainly because that more amped up, bizarre, version really stood out for me. Just the intensity and uniqueness alone. He seemed a lot more alive back then, so there was something in that character that really must have done something for him. I said earlier that it was amazing, because it doesn't seem to pull from his life much, but maybe I'm wrong about that.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm not very huge on totally being a character that's supposed to be unconnected to the person playing it outside of TV. Undertaker is probably the only exception and even him, I wish they toned it down and didn't protect him to the extent they've been doing for his entire career outside of American Bad-Ass. I feel they've been doing it just fine with Orton even though he's gone way too out of character at times like when he did the split jump in 2011 or hugged Barney the Dinosaur and posted it on his twitter. I thought that was more funny than anything, though.

When I referred to him being a snake, I was talking about the Viper. He's been playing that since 2007 and went to another level with it in 2009. We don't hear them referring to him as that very much now, instead they call him the Apex Predator. First time I saw him was when he punted Vince. I was laughing at it because I didn't know much about wrestling and thought it was out of script and he lost his cool. So I said to myself "what a psycho, he attacked an interviewer". Really got into wrestling in 2010, so that's when I became familiar with Orton, found out it was him who kicked the boss' head (not an interviewer, lol) and realized he's awesome.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have this ridiculous theory that at Summerslam, Bryan beats Cena, Orton cashes in and Bryan beats him too.

Bryan beats Cena and the crowd is going nuts, Bryan is finally the champion. Then, outta nowhere Orton comes down and gets ready to cash in. Crowd is like "SHIT NO NOT THIS WAY" and Bryan and Orton go on to wrestle for another 10-15 minutes of near falls before Bryan manages to sneak in the No! Lock and begin his reign as the new Chris Jericho, proclaiming that he defeated Cena and Orton in the same night every time he gets the mic.

More than likely it'll be Bryan beats Cena and Orton cashes in and wins or Cena just beats Bryan and god knows what happens.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That'd be pretty awesome, actually. Not sure if it'll happen if they're looking to turn Orton into a #1 heel.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm probably the least hyped up for Summerslam in this thread. My favorite wrestler in the company is stuck in a midcard match with his former bodyguard Big E. Ziggler being thrown out of the World Title picture to work with a guy who's had like 6 matches on the main roster so far. :no: I'm fairly sure Ziggler will win, but if he doesn't it will be just fpalm. 

Cena/Bryan sure it will be a good match, but I just don't care about it because I'm not a fan of either guy. I don't want to see Bryan as WWE Champion, I know I'm in the extreme minority when I say that, but if Orton cashes in and becomes WWE Champion then we're going to get a Cena/Orton feud which I don't want to see again, so that match is a lose/lose situation for me. 

Punk/Lesnar I have a mild interest in, but that's about it. 

As for other matches that could happen, Sandow/Rhodes is likely but I don't really care about that. I like Sandow, don't care for Cody, and I think this feud is silly because Sandow didn't really ''turn'' on Rhodes, it was every man for themselves, just like in a Royal Rumble, and Rhodes would of done the exact same thing if he was in that position, so it's silly. A Rhodes's face turn is good for him though, but I don't think I'm ever going to be a fan of the guy.

World Title match won't have much interest just because Del Rio is champ, but if he faces RVD which could be likely, then that will make be care more. Would love to see RVD win the title.

I would like to see Christian/Ambrose happen at Summerslam for the US Title, as you'll remember there was some build between the two before MITB when Christian got a win over Ambrose, but then MITB happened and they were in different matches and there hasn't been any build since. Would be a match I would like to see, reckon they could put on a really good match together, but part of me thinks if this match will happen it will probably be regulated to the pre-show, which would suck because I never watch the pre-show. :side:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Christian/Fandango- ***1/4 from ME, deserves a watch, Christian was awesome here


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> *I'm probably the least hyped up for Summerslam in this thread. My favorite wrestler in the company is stuck in a midcard match with his former bodyguard Big E. Ziggler being thrown out of the World Title picture to work with a guy who's had like 6 matches on the main roster so far. :no: I'm fairly sure Ziggler will win, but if he doesn't it will be just fpalm. *
> 
> Cena/Bryan sure it will be a good match, but I just don't care about it because I'm not a fan of either guy. I don't want to see Bryan as WWE Champion, I know I'm in the extreme minority when I say that, but if Orton cashes in and becomes WWE Champion then we're going to get a Cena/Orton feud which I don't want to see again, so that match is a lose/lose situation for me.
> 
> ...


:clap:clap although punk/brock does sound sick and their little "brawl" monday was awesome.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't think Zigger vs Langston is that bad IMO. I think the match is only an excuse to keep Ziggler away from AJ and Langston because you can't keep them away for no reason. It's a good thing because it was weird seeing Ziggler, as a face, being managed by two heels.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

WHC MITB 2013 - **** 

What an awesome match that was. Every guy looked good and did well. The creativity was amazing as well.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Brock/Punk
Cena/Bryan
Ambrose/Christian (maybe)
ADR/RVD ( I hope)

The SS card looks pretty great, only with the first 2 matches


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> :clap:clap although punk/brock does sound sick and their little "brawl" monday was awesome.


Yeah, their brawl was good stuff. Surprised by the amount of offense Punk got in and he's going to be in a real underdog situation with Lesnar.



Oliver-94 said:


> Don't think Zigger vs Langston is that bad IMO. I think the match is only an excuse to keep Ziggler away from AJ and Langston because you can't keep them away for no reason. It's a good thing because it was weird seeing Ziggler, as a face, being managed by two heels.


I knew this was going to happen - as with Ziggler's face run now he can't be aligned with heels anymore (and yes I agree it was a bit weird) but I don't the idea of this match is happening at Summerslam. 

Summerslam being one of the biggest shows of the year - and Ziggler's had a real breakout year so far, but yet he'll be stuck in a midcard match at Summerslam, just like last year.. While someone like Daniel Bryan who hasn't done much of anything this year is in the WWE Title match with Cena.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> Daniel Bryan who hasn't done much of anything this year is in the WWE Title match with Cena.


he's worked his ass off and gotten over. lots of emphasis on the latter. dolph is good in his own right but nowhere near brian.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I think Savage's carry job of A. Hogan at WM 5 and B. Warrior at WM 7 rival the carry job of Davey at Summerslam 92. 

For the love of God don't have Bryan win and Orton cash in 90 seconds later. What a shit move that would be to someone the fans have obviously been enjoying so much lately. Sadly I could see it happening. Let Bryan have his day in the sun if you are gonna go that way. Have Bryan win and Orton tease a cash in and cash in the next night on Raw if the idea is to turn Orton heel soon.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Savage's carryjobs of Hogan and Warrior are very high up there, but Bret had just as good carryjobs against not just Bulldog, but also The Patriot, Yokozuna, and Diesel among others. Flair is probably the king of carryjobs though. At least until :bryan2 finishes his career.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brye said:


> I have this ridiculous theory that at Summerslam, Bryan beats Cena, Orton cashes in and Bryan beats him too.
> 
> Bryan beats Cena and the crowd is going nuts, Bryan is finally the champion. Then, outta nowhere Orton comes down and gets ready to cash in. Crowd is like "SHIT NO NOT THIS WAY" and Bryan and Orton go on to wrestle for another 10-15 minutes of near falls before Bryan manages to sneak in the No! Lock and begin his reign as the new Chris Jericho, proclaiming that he defeated Cena and Orton in the same night every time he gets the mic.
> 
> More than likely it'll be Bryan beats Cena and Orton cashes in and wins or Cena just beats Bryan and god knows what happens.


My GOD that sounds incredible.



Nostalgia said:


> While someone like Daniel Bryan who hasn't done much of anything this year is in the WWE Title match with Cena.


Really? I know you're not the biggest fan of Bryan at all cause you think he's "boring", but seriously?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like Brye's idea of the Orton cash-in, but I'd have Bryan squash Orton in like 30 seconds. Imagine Bryan going through 20 minutes with Cena, then Orton comes out and Bryan has this 'Are You Fucking Kidding? You Are Not Fucking Taking This Away From Me' face and stiffs the shit out of him. I always thought that'd be a neat way to turn somebody heel if done right. They fought so hard for the title, finally get it, some jackass thinks he can take it with his MITB and the champ gets overzealous out of fury and savages MITB guy, leaving him injured. He goes SO far that he starts to get booed.

Plus it'd make Orton look like a total chump and I am so up for that right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WWE creative may have been idiots in the past but even they are not so brainless to go through with an idea as dumb as this.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I just can't imagine someone finding Bryan boring. Sure maybe you don't like him but boring? Daaaaamn. :smokey


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I can understand why it'd piss Bryan fans off, but I think Orton cashing in immediately and winning, creates the best storyline. Immediately, incredible heat, and Bryan would ultimately come out on top anyway. Maybe at Wrestlemania, in a really big moment.

Thanks, btw, Callamus, for the ME explanation. That's one PPV I'd never heard of. So much has changed...

C2D, that Vince/Randy punting story is hilarious. That has to be the most random way to discover someone.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> I can understand why it'd piss Bryan fans off, but I think Orton cashing in immediately and winning, creates the best storyline. Immediately, incredible heat, and Bryan would ultimately come out on top anyway. Maybe at Wrestlemania, in a really big moment.
> 
> Thanks, btw, Callamus, for the ME explanation. That's one PPV I'd never heard of. So much has changed...
> 
> C2D, that Vince/Randy punting story is hilarious. That has to be the most random way to discover someone.


Main Event is actually a weekly show like Raw and Smackdown. I think it airs on Wednesday or Thursday, not sure.

I actually laughed at that myself. I got into wrestling full-time after watching a Raw episode on some channel and like I said, Orton caught my attention so when it was over, I went and googled his name and the punting video was one of the first things that showed up. So it was like a trip down memory lane as I thought "Hey, isn't that the confrontation that I saw briefly on TV when flipping through channels a year or two ago when I thought Randy attacked an interviewer?".


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Main Event is actually a weekly show like Raw and Smackdown. I think it airs on Wednesday or Thursday, not sure.
> 
> I actually laughed at that myself. I got into wrestling full-time after watching a Raw episode on some channel and like I said, Orton caught my attention so when it was over, I went and googled his name and the punting video was one of the first things that showed up. So it was like a trip down memory lane as I thought "Hey, isn't that the confrontation that I saw briefly on TV when flipping through channels a year or two ago when I thought Randy attacked an interviewer?".


Oh, ok, thanks!

I just watched it, and I can see how someone who knows nothing about wrestling and just came across it, would think that it was real. Randy played the aftermath really, really, well.

So how did you first discover Benoit?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Oh, ok, thanks!
> 
> I just watched it, and I can see how someone who knows nothing about wrestling and just came across it, would think that it was real. Randy played the aftermath really, really, well.
> 
> *So how did you first discover Benoit?*


CNN or CBS news prob :hbk2

sorry that was low


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> CNN or CBS news prob :hbk2
> 
> sorry that was low


LOL, it's sad but true in a way, because it's what caused wrestling to be raised in my consciousness again. I already knew who Chris was, because he was around when I used to watch wrestling, but hearing about that tragedy...it was the first time I thought about wrestling in quite a few years.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock Vs Punk will be the WWEMOTY, banking on it. If they bust out some real innovation and character development instead of "OH MY GOD LOOK AT THAT MOVE", "LET'S TRADE FINISHERS ALL DAY" & "SPOT AFTER SPOT AFTER SPOT" and let the two work organically, we seriously could be looking at one of the greatest matches in North American history. I love Bryan and I love Cena, but face vs face matches aren't really my cup of tea as neither man will probably work from the bottom up which is both of their strengths, so why bother? I wish we were getting Bryan-Henry or Cena-Henry II or something, anything to shy away from your typical face vs face encounter.

I need to get my computer fixed so I can whip my Henry list up and post it. The anticipation is actually destroying me inside, people need to stop with their nonsense and appreciate more 2006 MARK HENRY as one of the upper echelon workers in the company. Hell, his one minute long squashes during the summer of 2007 were just GODLY as well.

Thought I should also give Choke2Death a shout out for his awesome list, while we may not agree on a ton of things, I'd be lying if I said he didn't do his homework and watch as many matches as possible for his projects. Seems to have a very "leave no stones unturned" type attitude much like myself when it comes to these things, and I don't think there's a single wrong thing I can say about your top 20 if I'm not mistaken, with the top five being the definition of PERFECTION and knowing your favorite workers.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit... shiiit, it was the day after the tragedy, a friend of mine who would occasionally play wrestling videos for me despite my lack of interest at the time told me about it. I heard it and even then, I assumed it was a man who was depressed and mentally fucked up who happened to have lost it. So he had my sympathy even when I wasn't a wrestling fan. But it was just my initial thoughts as I forgot about it by the next day. The next time I stumbled upon him was when I was in somebody's house and they played some wrestling DVDs for me. Benoit was in a ladder match against Jeff Jarrett I think and I recognized his name as the guy who went down with his family. By the time I got into wrestling, my first seeing him was when I checked out Orton's first ever title win. I saw him there and then he shook Orton's hand post-match and I remember hearing him intensely yelling "BE A MAN" after shaking Orton's hand. Didn't really start appreciating his talents until some time in 2011 when I really enjoyed his work and he became one of my favorite wrestlers, if not my favorite. During that time, I also read about the tragedy and theories but I'm not gonna get into that since the question was how I discovered him.

On a random site note, I thought his name was pronounced "Ben-oyt" until I heard it pronounced by either announcers or in some backstage segment I youtube'd.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Benoit... shiiit, it was the day after the tragedy, a friend of mine who would occasionally play wrestling videos for me despite my lack of interest at the time told me about it. I heard it and even then, I assumed it was a man who was depressed and mentally fucked up who happened to have lost it. So he had my sympathy even when I wasn't a wrestling fan. But it was just my initial thoughts as I forgot about it by the next day. The next time I stumbled upon him was when I was in somebody's house and they played some wrestling DVDs for me. Benoit was in a ladder match against Jeff Jarrett I think and I recognized his name as the guy who went down with his family. By the time I got into wrestling, my first seeing him was when I checked out Orton's first ever title win. I saw him there and then he shook Orton's hand post-match and I remember hearing him intensely yelling "BE A MAN" after shaking Orton's hand. Didn't really start appreciating his talents until some time in 2011 when I really enjoyed his work and he became one of my favorite wrestlers, if not my favorite. During that time, I also read about the tragedy and theories but I'm not gonna get into that since the question was how I discovered him.
> 
> On a random site note, I thought his name was pronounced "Ben-oyt" until I heard it pronounced by either announcers or in some backstage segment I youtube'd.


The Orton/Benoit match would definitely be a good introduction.

[email protected] last part. I remember always seeing ASAP written as a kid/teen, and never hearing anyone actually say it before. So when I heard someone pronounce it as AY-SAP, I was shocked. I thought you said it like "A.S.A.P." LOL. 

Random, I know.

Anyway, it's fortunate that you were able to quickly discover all of their old work.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I think both Punk/Lesnar and Cena/Bryan have potential to be MOTY... however with the classic Taker and Punk had at Mania... it's difficult to imagine a match this year surpassing it. It's one of those super-top quality matches you get once every few years. Of course I hope that one or both of the Summerslam matches surpass it, because well... good god, what a year 2013 would go down as if that was the case. Plus it would make Summerslam worth it alone.

I loved what they were going for with Punk and Lesnar on Raw and if they mesh well in a full-on match, we definitely have a potential classic on our hands. Bryan and Cena... well it has Bryan, in the biggest match of his life, so no doubt he's gonna give it 110%, if not even more. And if Cena realizes who he's working with and gives a shit himself, he should put in a decent performance himself and the match as a whole could be a classic if done right.

I'd be fine with Orton cashing in on Bryan shortly after Bryan wins it. TBH, I had that idea pre-MITB, but with the World Title. After Payback I got the idea for Ziggler to win back the World Title at HIAC in a match with Del Rio. He wins it and right after that, the SD MITB (which happened to be Sandow :mark: ) would come out and cash-in. Sandow would then hold the fact that Ziggler has never had a successful title defense over his head and has been a failure of a champion on three separate occasions, with two of those reigns being two of the shortest in history. He would then find ways to manipulate the GM and keep Ziggler away from the World Title, until Ziggler goes to the Rumble, and Sandow gets the GM to throw him in at number 1 (second year in a row Ziggler enters at number 1), and this time has the fans on his side. It would come down to Ziggler and Bryan (who would be basically the two new big main event stars of 2013), and Bryan would win, but Ziggler would still find a way to get back into the World Title scene and win the belt there.

It would make that Rumble interesting if both Bryan and Ziggler were actually in the same predicament. Both screwed out of their moments due to MITB and eventually go to Wrestlemania to face the men who took their titles and win them back.

Unfortunately, I couldn't see Bryan/Orton main eventing a Mania ever, and obviously Sandow/Ziggler wouldn't main event Mania, and I would like at least one of those wins to be the main event. But I'd take whatever I could get as far as that goes.

Only thing that would suck is having to sit through an 8 month Orton reign, but I'd hate it even more to see the title meaninglessly passed back and fourth which would cheapen Bryan's eventual win. So I'd live through that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Never did it before, but I am going through every single Rockers/Brainbusters match right now. So far this is honestly one of the greatest series of matches I have ever seen, and probably the best ever in a tag team environment. Shawn is a king in the tag team environment. Hart Foundation/Brainbusters from Summerslam is pretty awesome too. The WWE was fortunate to have three top tier teams with them at the same time. Were Strike Force any good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Summerslam being one of the biggest shows of the year - and Ziggler's had a real breakout year so far, but yet he'll be stuck in a midcard match at Summerslam, just like last year.. While someone like Daniel Bryan who hasn't done much of anything this year is in the WWE Title match with Cena.


Have we been watching the same WWE this year?


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Ok so here's how I'd do brock/punk and cena/bryan

For brock/punk there is no way that punk should win the match at Summerslam, absolutely no way because brock/punk/heyman is a mania program and it should be stretched out until wrestlemania 30. Punk needs to get destroyed by lesnar, but he needs to look strong in defeat. I like the punk passes out, aka the stone cold/bret hart finish so punk looks strong in defeat and Lesnar continues to look like the beast he is. 

Cena/Bryan is going to be an incredible match, and we are all anticipating an Orton cash in so bryan should win at SS, and have orton cash it in after a long and grueling match then orton gets massive heat, #1 heel in the company, etc. etc. (maybe incorporate vince into it by helping orton cash in because on raw HHH/Steph said vince won't like who cena picks.) 

Bryan wins the rumble faces Orton at mania, bryan wins the title. Wrestlemania moment.

Punk beats brock and heyman at mania. Wrestlemania moment.

This also allows cena the option to be free at mania to face Taker.

Summerslam's going to be incredible, 2 dream matches!

Oh and :lmao at the guy who said bryan hasn't done anything this year, bryan's the most over guy on the roster and has worked his ass off to get there


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Brye/Yeah1993's approach on Cena vs Danielson + cash-in.

The Punk vs Brock plan is solid. Then again, I'm only hoping it has legs to go to WrestleMania. Like it should. It has to be more than a one time thing.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm fully expecting Summerslam to be another disappointing show to be added to the string of mediocre PPVs WWE has had since Wrestlemania.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> I liked Brye/Yeah1993's approach on Cena vs Danielson + cash-in.
> 
> The Punk vs Brock plan is solid. Then again, I'm only hoping it has legs to go to WrestleMania. Like it should. It has to be more than a one time thing.


I was thinking realistically, I'd love to see brye/yeah's plan to the match. Since orton hasn't done much for me since 08.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Alim said:


> I'm fully expecting Summerslam to be another disappointing show to be added to the string of mediocre PPVs WWE has had since Wrestlemania.


Except that WM itself has been the lone mediocre PPV this year.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

:lmao Love this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM & MITB have been the only PPVs I've enjoyed all around this year. Rest are more than mediocre one match shows. Or worse: Royal Rumble.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

I've finally finished all the 2013 PPV's and am all caught up and i've got to say my opinion on Rock/Punk has changed completely. RR > EC. The EC match is the resthold filled match with another cringeworthy finish.

Royal Rumble 2013:
Del Rio/Show LMS: **1/2*
Hell No/Rhodes Scholars: ****
Rumble:: ***3/4* (Way better than 2012 though)
Punk/Rock: ***

EC 2013:
Del Rio/Show: ***
Cesaro/Miz: ***1/2*
Chamber: ***3/4*
SHIELD/Super Friends: ******
Ziggler/Kofi: *1/2**
Rock/Punk: *1/4**


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked MITB, if only for three matches. Every other PPV I've seen (all but Mania and Payback) have been 'why did I even fucking watch this' Feels like I didn;t give a couple of things at EC a fair shake, though. I wanna re-watch the Shield tag and Cesaro/Miz again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The 12th Man said:


> Except that WM itself has been the lone mediocre PPV this year.


Opinions, but if RR and EC weren't mediocre, I don't know what is.

As far as I'm concerned:

RR < EC < WM < ER < PB < MITB.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

ER, RR & EC were all quite bad, WM and MITB were solid and PB was good and the best PPV of the year (so far).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I liked MITB, if only for three matches. Every other PPV I've seen (all but Mania and Payback) have been 'why did I even fucking watch this' Feels like I didn;t give a couple of things at EC a fair shake, though. I wanna re-watch the Shield tag and Cesaro/Miz again.


imo. Shield tag is great if you ask me and Cesaro manages to get Miz to his best match all year on that show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think I wanna re-watch a lot of stuff this year, so I'll base myself off this list:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn/Kruger NXT- ***3/4, awesome match,


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Much like Christian vs Fandango on Main Event, those three killed it within a seven minute span. These sprints are legit.

Tag Championship match from NXT deserves a plug too. So much tag team goodness this year.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Yep ***1/4 for the tag match, the perfect way for the Wyatts to leave NxT


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Next week may be their final week with Sheamus supposedly having a match after what was said in the interview. He'll probably take out Bray. 

I avoided the recent TV tapings so any other news on this I'm in the dark. Not like I want to know as it is. Ruins the fun.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Wyatt family leaving just makes room for new potential talent :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn/Kruger - ***3/4, what a great sprint. Cesaro hit the manliest uppercut I've ever seen too.

EDIT: Haven't kept up with NXT a lot, who's the blonde guy ripping off Rick Martel?


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*(60 - 50) My Personal Top 60 Undertaker Matches*

By reading through some of the "top 100/50 matches by a certain wrestler or from an annual event" posts by fellow contributors, Choke2Death, ATF and The Beast Incarnate. I've been inspired to start my own on my favorite wrestler, a pioneer of the living dead, the acclaimed "Phenom", The Undertaker. Definitely the greatest big man in-ring worker to ever scrape the grounds of the WWE, even possibly the greatest ever, and here I am to provide his (according to my preference) top 60 matches in regards to quality. To start off the list, we have:


*60. The Undertaker vs. Kane (Smackdown 04/04/08) *











*59. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (Breaking Point 2009) *











*58. The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (IYH: A Cold Day In Hell 1997)*











*57. The Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam (Vengeance 2001) *











*56. The Undertaker vs. Festus (Smackdown 11/04/08)*











*55. The Undertaker vs. Big Show (Smackdown 05/12/08)*











*54. The Undertaker vs. Vader (Royal Rumble 1997)*











*53. The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy (Smackdown 14/11/08) *











*52. The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 28)*











*51. The Undertaker vs. JBL (Summerslam 2004)*











*50. The Undertaker vs. John Cena (Vengeance 2003)*















I figure there be a few outbursts of angry feel, in regards to the ranking of the WM28 match, but it's not bad at all, it's quite solid, but everything felt so forced and artificially epic that I'd rather receive a heap of criticism than exclude my actual beliefs for compliments. Continuation will be in a day or two. ​


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

:mark: the 4/4/08 Kane match is legit one of my favourite TV matches of all time and could quite possibly be in my top 10 of 2008, definitely top 15.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

^^^ Yep, It's quite the brawl, but rather at a methodical pace. I compare it to the Festus match at times, as they're contrasting images of the same category. One, all out and blazing, while the other, precise and methodical.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Why does my post look like shit? It's probably my horrible formatting.  - C2D, ATF, How did you get your posts to look so crisp and organized?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Quite suprised that Taker/HHH is low


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Quite suprised that Taker/HHH is low


As were most, . Opinion on Rock-Taker KOTR or NWO? assuming you'd know.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Fluke, I simply change the size and colors of my words 

Wyatts/Neville & Graves - ***, good match but only got going at the last minute. Harper is awesome btw. It really made me think of how :mark: a Sheamus/Harper match on ME would be.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Sheamus/Harper would fucking rule the world...


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fluze said:


> As were most, . Opinion on Rock-Taker KOTR or NWO? assuming you'd know.


 Still need to watch the KOTR match. As for the NWO, i'd rate **3/4. Too slow and the overbooked finish (to set up Flair/Taker) doesn't help. Although it does threaten to become a solid match but Taker randomly goes to his bike.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why does no one like Elimination Chamber? It's been the PPV of the year guys! :no:

Kinda surprised to see a top 60 Undertaker matches with Breaking Point vs. Punk included. That's the biggest shocker to me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As part of my RewatchaMania:

*Sheamus/Barrett ME 5/29: ***3/4 - ****.* I dug their 12/7/12 ME a lot (have that at ***1/2), so I expected something quite good, but holy crap this was awesome. It was European-style physicality at its finest. Both guys were beating the crap out of each other and everyone ate it up. Some cool bumps, great psychology, nice flow, didn't felt dull... and it two Europeans working European wrestling, which is fucking great. They're no Finlay or Regal, but both are great in their own. Only gripes are the finish and the commentary (fucking Miz).

The more I think now of a Sheamus/Harper the more I :mark: ...


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> he's worked his ass off and gotten over. lots of emphasis on the latter. dolph is good in his own right but nowhere near brian.


I think once again, people have taken what I've said out of context. I was just trying to make the point that's 2013 has been Ziggler's breakout year, compared to Daniel Bryan who's breakout year was 2012 when he won the World Title, got over and had top feuds with the likes of Sheamus and CM Punk. Apart from Bryan's push in the past month, he really hasn't done much this year. He's been over since 2012, so he didn't really ''get over'' this year and the ''worked his ass off'' thing can apply to lots of wrestlers.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Why does no one like Elimination Chamber? It's been the PPV of the year guys! :no:
> 
> Kinda surprised to see a top 60 Undertaker matches with Breaking Point vs. Punk included. That's the biggest shocker to me.


Aside from the dogshit ending. I thought the actual work was really good, Punk was aggressive and unlike his actions up to the event, he was very face on with Taker, whilst Deadman on the defense and selling like a pro, as always.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure if already posted but w/e:

http://www.wwe.com/classics/10-best-wwe-velocity-matches


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Hardy vs. London?
WGTT vs. Dragon and Funaki?

Why have I never heard of these matches? Glad to see the London/Akio series get recognised, awesome from all angles. No doubt if the WWE didn't wipe Benoit from history, it would have been Benoit/Regal at the top of the list. Oh well, some gemz in there for sure, might watch some now, mainly the two I listed above.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Essential/Best Steiner Brothers matches?


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Nostalgia said:


> I think once again, people have taken what I've said out of context. I was just trying to make the point that's 2013 has been Ziggler's breakout year, compared to Daniel Bryan who's breakout year was 2012 when he won the World Title, got over and had top feuds with the likes of Sheamus and CM Punk. Apart from Bryan's push in the past month, he really hasn't done much this year. He's been over since 2012, so he didn't really ''get over'' this year and the ''worked his ass off'' thing can apply to lots of wrestlers.


The 'World' title isn't really the main event though, Ziggler is having a decent year IMO but he's still ultimately apart of the midcard scene, even if high up on it. Daniel Bryan's momentum has gained more and more since the turn of the year. He was in the 2nd biggest feud post WrestleMania against The Shield which really is the launching pad to the new level he's reached. He's beaten Orton and Sheamus clean since, he's opening and closing RAW's now. He's not just challenging for the championship at a random PPV filler, he's clearly what they've been building to and he's likely to become Champion between now and WrestleMania. 

I don't see what makes this year really any different to last year for Ziggler, I agree he's over and the babyface turn has progressed him further but nothing like the run Bryan is on.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ziggler/Swagger SD this week - **1/4. Really nice 4 minute sprint for what it was.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Outside of cashing-in on Raw and turning at Payback, I couldn't really name anything that Ziggler has done this year. He's definitely on the rise, but I wouldn't really call it a "breakout year" [so far]. He's still a midcarder with mild popularity, fighting for a midcard title.

2013 belongs to Bryan. :bryan2


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Basically in a nutshell. 

He's probably next on the list of guys to elevate though, 2014 maybe? :ziggler3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 10 Main Event matches? (Cesaro smiley plz )


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I really wish they would scrap the WWE Title (it looks heinous and corny), elevate the World Heavyweight Championship to "THE" title, scrap the United States Title, and just have the I.C. champ be the Mid-Card championship.

Ziggler is a perfect fit for the I.C. champ right now, I could see him having a Mr. Perfect like run if he was put with the right manager.

I'm planning on buying a season of Raw or Smackdown on DVD, what is your favorite 2 seasons that I should get?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^stop, I love perfect, but that'd be HORRIBLE idea to give the title that is less credible than zack ryder's internet belt atm to the future of this company along with dbryan. Idk why their dumping the adr/ziggler feud right now tbh, its the best and most interesting whc since orton/christian feud and you dump it

Fluze you got a link to that taker/kane 08 match ?


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

cjack828 said:


> I'm planning on buying a season of Raw or Smackdown on DVD, what is your favorite 2 seasons that I should get?


Raw 2000, 2001, 2005 and Smackdown 2002, 2003, 2005 are all largely great years from what I remember. 

WWE 00/01 in general is probably the peak of the company, for wrestling, characters, promos, storylines, and direction.

98/99 gets a lot of love, and they're easy to watch, but there's also a LOT of garbage and hardly any great wrestling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2000-2001 aside, 2004 is probably the best year ever for Raw.



Fluze said:


> Why does my post look like shit? It's probably my horrible formatting.  - C2D, ATF, How did you get your posts to look so crisp and organized?


What can I say, it's my talent in formatting.  But seriously, it's a bit hard to explain so best thing to do would be quoting one of my posts (with the list) to see how I set it up. Your post didn't look that bad, though.



ATF said:


> Not sure if already posted but w/e:
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/classics/10-best-wwe-velocity-matches


I hate it when wwe.com do these lists. It's obvious that they'll always exclude Benoit even though he belongs in every single one of them in some way but they still go ahead and do it. (while they probably realize how ridiculous it'll look) I can understand not mentioning him on TV but I don't understand why they have to pretend he didn't exist in their fucking SITE as well. Instead they try to change history and hide everything with him in it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Kane/Undertaker SD 08 love. Everyone go buy the Kane DVD so you can own it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I hate it when wwe.com do these lists. It's obvious that they'll always exclude Benoit even though he belongs in every single one of them in some way but they still go ahead and do it. (while they probably realize how ridiculous it'll look) I can understand not mentioning him on TV but I don't understand why they have to pretend he didn't exist in their fucking SITE as well. Instead they try to change history and hide everything with him in it.


Couldn't agree more. But you gotta see it in a way: outside of this thread, if you respectfully pop up the name "Benoit", WF marks and whatnot will immediatly claim that you support a murderer. Even though it's only paying dues to his all-time legendary in-ring work and not the person, you'll still get that kind of narrow-minded response. It's that kind of bad imagery that the WWE wants to wipe out - they don't want to associate a tragedy like that to their history because of the press and media. Fucking mainstream keeps on killing.

Oh, and btw C2D I'd probably take 2005 over 04 as far as Raw is concerned. *2005* :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw years everyone should own: 97, 2000, 2001, 2004. I need to get back to getting 2005. I got about 3 months of it then my net started playing up and when it got sorted for the time being I never went back to it.

SD years worth owning: 99 (starts towards the end of the year just as Russo was on his way out and his shite stopped), 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 200-motherfucking-6, 2009.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*(49 - 43) My Personal Top 60 Undertaker Matches*

Part 1 of the listings (60 - 50) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...show-discussion-thread-1927.html#post21336753

*49. The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (No Mercy 2003)*











*48. The Undertaker vs. Kane (Wrestlemania 14)*











*47. The Undertaker vs. Edge (Judgement Day 2008)*











*46. The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton (No Mercy 2005)*











*45. The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Judgement Day 2001)*











*44. The Undertaker vs. John Cena (Smackdown 05/08/03)*











*43. The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (Smackdown 16/09/05)*


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Fluze you got a link to that taker/kane 08 match ?


Sure thing bud, pretty shitty quality though - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ytyp_smackdown-04-04-2008-kane-vs-undert_sport


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> SD years worth owning: 99 (starts towards the end of the year just as Russo was on his way out and his shite stopped), 2000, 2001, 2002, *2003, 200-motherfucking-6*, 2009.


YES. Those two are WIN.

The perfect TV year:

Raw 97
Smackdown 06
ECW 09/NXT 13
Superstars 10

@Fluze, Taker/Austin over Taker/Kane? Lemme hear about that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm now nearing Backlash in 2007, so this journey is almost over. Don't know if I should start all the way back in 97 or from 2000 since some guy has uploaded all the episodes from 00-01 on youtube and we all know they can get taken down any day.



ATF said:


> Couldn't agree more. But you gotta see it in a way: outside of this thread, if you respectfully pop up the name "Benoit", WF marks and whatnot will immediatly claim that you support a murderer. Even though it's only paying dues to his all-time legendary in-ring work and not the person, you'll still get that kind of narrow-minded response. It's that kind of bad imagery that the WWE wants to wipe out - they don't want to associate a tragedy like that to their history because of the press and media. Fucking mainstream keeps on killing.
> 
> Oh, and btw C2D I'd probably take 2005 over 04 as far as Raw is concerned. *2005* :mark:


But mainstream media stopping caring about the tragedy 6 years ago. And they weren't pretending he didn't exist the way they do now until they updated the site's look last year it was, I think. He still had some pictures in PPV pages and if he was in the main event, presented properly. Now they'll change the focus on the PPV main events just to downplay him even more and in the WM17 results, they've even removed Benoit vs Angle for whatever reason. (but his matches still exist in the other WM result pages) It's not like they'll get bad press because they acknowledge him in their site, I've gone over to NFL and seen their controversial members mentioned like normal. And who visits the site other than fans, anyways? The latest edit they've done is remove the summary for title reigns where the wrestler won it from Benoit, such as Orton's first reign, MVP's first US Title win and so on.

I like 2005, but 2004 is better because there's a period in 05 where the matches and feud quality goes down, specifically after SummerSlam.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

ATF said:


> @Fluze, Taker/Austin over Taker/Kane? Lemme hear about that.


Whelp, Taker-Austin was a little more action packed than the latter, and Taker-Kane was kinda all Kane which is not really good, as he wasn't really seasoned in the ring at this time, which I know, I know, ties into the story well, but Taker getting in such little non finisher offense, whilst still being able to secure the victory, hurt the believability of it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> But mainstream media stopping caring about the tragedy 6 years ago. And they weren't pretending he didn't exist the way they do now until they updated the site's look last year it was, I think. He still had some pictures in PPV pages and if he was in the main event, presented properly. Now they'll change the focus on the PPV main events just to downplay him even more and in the WM17 results, they've even removed Benoit vs Angle for whatever reason. (but his matches still exist in the other WM result pages) It's not like they'll get bad press because they acknowledge him in their site, I've gone over to NFL and seen their controversial members mentioned like normal. And who visits the site other than fans, anyways? The latest edit they've done is remove the summary for title reigns where the wrestler won it from Benoit, such as Orton's first reign, MVP's first US Title win and so on.
> 
> I like 2005, but 2004 is better because there's a period in 05 where the matches and feud quality goes down, specifically after SummerSlam.


You do have a point indeed, but still, they play for the safe. Let's just hope that one day they can forgive Benoit's memory.

2004's match quality is superior, but 2005 delievered countless great matches too and the segments and storylines were incredibly superior. A lot of epic moments on Raw that year, much more than in 04.



Fluze said:


> Whelp, Taker-Austin was a little more action packed than the latter, and Taker-Kane was kinda all Kane which is not really good, as he wasn't really seasoned in the ring at this time, which I know, I know, ties into the story well, but Taker getting in such little non finisher offense, whilst still being able to secure the victory, hurt the believability of it.


That was the idea I reckon. Kane might've been a little green at the time, but he did play his role perfectly. He looked unstoppable, pretty much unbeatable, like a true monster. He dominated Taker like no one else ever did. It's a similar case to Cena/Lesnar in that aspect. Plus, considering that it took Taker three Tombstones to pin him, you can't help but smile when thinking of the incredible character work this match had.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> I really wish they would scrap the WWE Title (it looks heinous and corny), elevate the World Heavyweight Championship to "THE" title, scrap the United States Title, and just have the I.C. champ be the Mid-Card championship.


There should only be one World Title, I agree. But I would keep the WWE Title because of it's prestige and history and change the design.

I think the Undisputed Title design was the best:










The IC Title should be in the only midcard title, bring back the Women's Title and give a new design to the Tag Titles. 



cjack828 said:


> Ziggler is a perfect fit for the I.C. champ right now, I could see him having a Mr. Perfect like run if he was put with the right manager.


Nah, he was a perfect fit for the title a few years ago. And Ziggler shouldn't have another manager again, after years of having Vickie, then AJ and Big E, he's never really been on his own and he needs to prove what he can do on his own, and with his face turn now it's a perfect time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I actually have 60+ Taker matches in my top matches list. I hope you don't mind me jumping in Fluze, but it'll be interesting to see the difference in a top 60 Taker list:

Top 60 Taker matches by Sandrone (60-51):

(***1/4)
60) Undertaker vs. Edge Judgement Day 2008 (World Heavyweight Championship)
(***1/2)
59) Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. MVP vs. The Great Khali vs. Big Daddy V No Way Out 2008 (Elimination Chamber)
58) Undertaker vs. Triple H Wrestlemania 27 (No Holds Barred)
57) Undertaker vs. Rey Mysterio Royal Rumble 2010 (World Heavyweight Championship)
56) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin Summerslam 1998 (WWE Championship)
55) Undertaker vs. Big Show ECW July 18th, 2006 (ECW Championship)
54) Undertaker vs. JBL No Mercy 2004 (WWE Championship Last Ride Match)
53) Undertaker and Kane vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H Backlash 2001 (WWE Championship, Intercontinental Championship and WWE Tag Team Championships all on the line)
52) Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar No Mercy 2003 (WWE Championship Biker Chain Match)
51) Undertaker vs. Edge vs. Batista Armageddon 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One day I might have to throw together a huge Undertaker match list. Though I'd probably have to invest some time into it and watch every match ever from him . Well, TV/PPV matches anyway. Not all his house show matches are available .


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Well, I'm including only single matches, If that says anything.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Who here has watched Tazz/Perfect from the '02 Draft? Great sprint that was.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> You do have a point indeed, but still, they play for the safe. Let's just hope that one day they can forgive Benoit's memory.
> 
> 2004's match quality is superior, but 2005 delievered countless great matches too and the segments and storylines were incredibly superior. A lot of epic moments on Raw that year, much more than in 04.


They better, or else I'ma learn about hacking and hack both their site and youtube page just so I can put Benoit's pics and videos all over them. 

And 2005 had some better storylines but I prefer 04 because Benoit and Orton (my two favorites) were dominating the entire year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only singles matches? I have about 50 or so on the list I believe. Suppose I could separate then after I post the whole thing for the comparison.

May as well put 50-41 up:

(***1/2)
50) Undertaker vs. Heidenreich Survivor Series 2004
49) Undertaker vs. Rock No Way Out 2002
48) Undertaker vs. Kane Smackdown April 4th, 2008
47) Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy No Mercy 2006
(***3/4)
46) Undertaker vs. RVD Vengeance 2001 (WWE Hardcore Championship)
45) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle July 4th, 2002 (WWE Undisputed Championship)
44) Undertaker vs. Randy and Bob Orton No Mercy 2005 (Casket Match)
43) Undertaker vs. Edge Backlash 2008 (World Heavyweight Championship)
42) Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T vs. JBL Armageddon 2004 (WWE Championship)
41) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Summerslam 2005


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> They better, or else I'ma learn about hacking and hack both their site and youtube page just so I can put Benoit's pics and videos all over them.
> 
> And 2005 had some better storylines but I prefer 04 because Benoit and Orton (my two favorites) were dominating the entire year.


CHOKE2DEATH IS A CHRIS BENOIT GUY :HHH

Gotta ask you: what did you gave to the Benoit/Orton SSlam rematch? I remember not enjoying it that much.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Gave the rematch ★★★★ and it ended up at #20 in my list. Divide that by ten, add ½ and you'll get SummerSlam!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Really? I don't recall enjoying it much tbh.

SummerFest though is epic. Rightfully landed the prestigious #7 in my SummerFest ranking


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I watched the first 10 mins of Benoit/Orton SS 04 last night and turned it off. It was pretty bad. Esp. Orton's sharpshooter making Rock's look like a GOAT move.

I'm not a fan of Orton until like 08-09


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with Orton's Sharpshooter. At least he can hook the legs correctly. 



ATF said:


> Really? I don't recall enjoying it much tbh.
> 
> SummerFest though is epic. Rightfully landed the prestigious #7 in my SummerFest ranking


I loved it, specially how Benoit was more intense than ever trying to take back his title. The chemistry between the two is something else, they could never do any wrong when facing each other.

And something I've started to dig about their SummerSlam match in the last couple of watches is the crowd. They are mostly quiet but it comes across like Japanese crowds. They applaud the moves they make and it looks as if they are concentrating on the action instead of chanting shit. Then they pop for the finish which is what matters. It's like they respected both guys and didn't want to support one over the other.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I loved it, specially how Benoit was more intense than ever trying to take back his title. The chemistry between the two is something else, they could never do any wrong when facing each other.
> 
> And something I've started to dig about their SummerSlam match in the last couple of watches is the crowd. They are mostly quiet but it comes across like Japanese crowds. They applaud the moves they make and it looks as if they are concentrating on the action instead of chanting shit. Then they pop for the finish which is what matters. It's like they respected both guys and didn't want to support one over the other.


Oh yeah I recall Benoit's intensity... and almost complete control of the match over the champion 

ATF goin' random:

Can we take a time to pay tribute to BRADEN WALKER?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, we can't.

Ran through a few impressive Goldberg bouts yesterday in my late night boredom, love his bouts against Steiner, and a good Goldberg squash is always amazing to watch. Not quite on the level of BROCK squash matches, but impressive as fuck nonetheless. Watching him run through Raven is quite the fun experience to say the least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Top 10 Main Event matches? (Cesaro smiley plz )


Don't have the dates (or Cesaro smiley unk2), but here are my favorites.

Del Rio/Ziggler
Cesaro/Sheamus
Sheamus/Punk
Cesaro/Ziggler
Sheamus/Ziggler
Cesaro/Kingston
Sheamus/Barrett
Miz/Ziggler
Orton/Cesaro (Most recent meeting between the two)
THE MARK HENRY GAUNTLET!

I know there's a notable omission or two in here too. Need some help figuring it out.

I don't know what it is about 2005, but I hate that year more than just about any other in WWE history. I acknowledge all the great feuds and PPV matches, but both RAW and Smackdown were unbearable, and John Cena had one of the worst title reigns of all-time. That year was the turning point for me as I stopped watching WWE in favor of TNA and ROH (now THAT was a GOAT product). Batista was also pretty terrible and the HHH feud went on for too long. Lots of good things you can name from 2005, but twice as many not so good things as well.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Awesome Taker match list Fluze. I love Taker vs Cena Smackdown 8/05/03 (along with their Vengeance 03 match) and the Orton vs Taker series of matches they had together back in 2005. I wasn't too high on the Biker Chain match between Lesnar and Taker but to each their own. 

Keep up the good work. (Y)


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

All pail in comparison to their SD 2004 match though, which will be featured later on the list. Thanks for the complements.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Sure thing bud, pretty shitty quality though - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ytyp_smackdown-04-04-2008-kane-vs-undert_sport


thanks man, I checked it out, started off alittle slow but it was good, shit finish though


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Don't have the dates (or Cesaro smiley unk2), but here are my favorites.
> 
> Del Rio/Ziggler
> Cesaro/Sheamus
> ...


Im convinced ROH 2007 is the best year for any promotion this millennium, i've just finished watching all of the events from that year (about 120 hours of footage) and I had an absolute blast and it didnt drag one bit. Everyone on the roster had something to like about them. Arghh, I could go on about everybody on the roster for hours and how much they rule the world in their own different ways, but I don't think anybody would like that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> thanks man, I checked it out, started off alittle slow but it was good, shit finish though


Don't mean to come across like a dick or anything, but were you aware of the situations going into that match? Its just that I find it helps if you know what's going on sometimes with matches in order to at least understand them, whether or not you like it any more is still subjective of course .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Don't mean to come across like a dick or anything, but were you aware of the situations going into that match? Its just that I find it helps if you know what's going on sometimes with matches in order to at least understand them, whether or not you like it any more is still subjective of course .


iirc this was the sd after mania 24 ? edge just dropped the belt to taker right ? yea i know but still I dont really like squash finish in general soo yea


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Seeing how impressive the NXT roster is at the moment, the WWE's in for quite the future.

I'd jizz over Cesaro/Ohno, Bryan/Zayn and Sheamus/Harper.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*(42 - 34) My Personal Top 60 Undertaker Matches*

Part 1 (60 - 50) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...show-discussion-thread-1927.html#post21336753

Part 2 (49 - 43) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21343833-post19293.html


*42. The Undertaker vs. Big Show (No Way Out 2008)*











*41. The Undertaker vs. Vader (Canadian Stampede 1997)*











*40. The Undertaker vs. Kane (Night Of Champions 2010)*











*39. The Undertaker vs. Big Show (No Mercy 2003)*











*38. The Undertaker vs. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 2010)*











*37. The Undertaker vs. The Great Khali (Smackdown 18/08/06) *











*36. The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry (Smackdown 10/2/06)*











*35. The Undertaker vs. Batista (Backlash 2007)*











*34. The Undertaker vs. Finlay (Smackdown 09/03/07)*








_Keep in mind, some of the images aren't of the exact match._


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

not that anyone would care but I just saw a commercial for 80th of TOTAL DIVAS but this one it shows John Cena and his bella, so he is probably on the show as well and their acknowledging their relationship


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Cena and Bryan will be on the show but there is no way I'm watching any of it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think the Khali LMS match is way too high up on the list. It's decent but not better than the many matches it appears ahead of such as the Orton casket match, the Big Show match from No Mercy *2008* and Cena's Vengeance match.

Also finding images for TV matches from 2005 onwards is pretty easy. Look through the wwe.com archives for Smackdown, Raw and ECW. That's where I got most of my pics for the Orton list. Even Benoit's matches have pics up there.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Taker and Big Show wrestled on No Mercy 2008, not 2003. For a minute I thought it said No way Out 2003 and I assumed you added the wrong picture there (as you said on your post)


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I watched The Rock vs Brock vs HHH from Global Warning 2002 for the first time. It's a wierd match. I hate how WWE book three way matche. It's either a cheap way to either get a title off of someone,throw in extra star power without a decisive finish so on star doesn't look weak. This is the latter. Rumour has it that HHH didn't want to work with Brock in 2002 and since he was touted as the newt big thing HHH got the Raw show and a new belt while Brock got the taped show and the main belt (though WWE seemed to regard it a secondary title during Trips' burying phase save for what? two "co-brand" PPVs? 

Anyway, the match is wierd. There's some double teaming by H and Brock on Rock, Brock disappears for a while so that Rock can pin HHH. Brock looked weak in this I thought. I suppose you could say it was basically a house show match as far as North American TV was concerned but the whole thing looked a bit awkward. It's not a bad match but forgettable since it's not that great though it looks so curious today.

WWE have obviously put on a few great triple threat matches but you could probably count them on one hand: Vengeance 2002 and maybe 2003, WrestleMania XX and Backlash 06 come to mind.



...

Am trying to think of great Kurt Angle matches in WWE aside from the obvious:



vs Benoit WrestleMania X-Seven
vs Shane KotR 2001 (alright, not great wrestling per se but damn great fun)
vs Austin SummerFest 2001
(from memory I think one his 2002 PPV matches with Edge were great ****+)
Vengeance 2002 Triple Threat
vs Benoit Unforgiven 2002
No Mercy 2002 tag team title final
vs Benoit Royal Rumble 2003
- recently watched the Brock 'Mania match and while very good it falls short of classic for me :/
vs Eddie WrestleMania XX
vs Shawn WrestleMania 21 (their rematches weren't as good as this imo)
vs Undertaker No Way Out 2006



vs Rock No Mercy 2000 and No Way Out 2001 I remember being excellent but honestly, they wer marred by screwy outside interference finishes


Outside of rematches with the above I'm sure there's probably a few omissions. I'm curious to know what the Mark Henry marks think of his 2006 matches with Angle.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Stephanie, HHH and Rikishi all interfered in the Rock - Angle match. Kurt Angle made Rikishi look like an idiot near the end by ducking two or three of Rikishi's moves:lol


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watching an old episode of RAW (11-18-1996) and so far, not a bad show at all. Starts off with Austin and Mankind having a match that was mostly brawling and Austin gets the win via DQ. Vince on commentary loves saying "unbelievable" doesn't he? Right now, I'm watching a match between Savio Vega and Faarooq. There is a hilarious botch where they both fall off the top rope and then they get back up in the ring :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seemed like every page "Sheamus vs Harper" got plugged.

This is a good day. Luke Harper is who should be getting folks excited now that he's on the main roster.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Oliver-94 said:


> Watching an old episode of RAW (11-18-1996) and so far, not a bad show at all. Starts off with Austin and Mankind having a match that was mostly brawling and Austin gets the win via DQ. Vince on commentary loves saying "unbelievable" doesn't he? Right now, I'm watching a match between Savio Vega and Faarooq. There is a hilarious botch where they both fall off the top rope and then they get back up in the ring :lmao


"WHAT A MANOEUVRE!! WHAT A COMPETTITOR!!"

Vince's commentary while always awful is funny in retrospect.

Was the Austin v Mankind match billed as a 'Toughman' match? I have that on Foley's first DVD and I recall it being a fun brawl.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Forever Unchained said:


> Outside of rematches with the above I'm sure there's probably a few omissions. I'm curious to know what the Mark Henry marks think of his 2006 matches with Angle.


They had a goody at Judgment Day. Both guys had much, much, much better matches that year, but Henry was awesome in 06 and 06 SmackDown is my favourite bald Angle period so it's not a knock on the match. I haven't seen the Rumble match in maybe five years.


I thought the SummerSlam re-match Benoit/Orton mutilated the SummerSlam match. It would have been my #2 WWE match of 2004 if not for the Evolution run-in which for whatever reason just completely killed my buzz. Still fantastic and I'd say probably Orton's #2 match. Writey write:



> Randy Orton v. Chris Benoit (Raw 8/16/04)
> Honestly during parts of this I thought it so great that I might actually rank it near Eddie/Show and Rey/Noble. I was actually getting worried that, come the end of the match, I'd have to decide between these matches (am I the lamest shithead ever or what?). Then the end of the match came and I got this stinking Evolution run-in which caused me to keep it off the list altogether. It wasn't a *horrible* finish, I guess, but I was just really disappointed that there was nothing better in their brain for this than Evolution distracting Benoit and Orton hitting an RKO. Orton won the match at SummerSlam clean, didn't he? I get Benoit has to look good, but he was completely fucking squashing Orton for the first ten minutes of this and Orton was turning face anyway. So yeah, about the squashing, it was nuts. Benoit knows how to squash dudes. This wasn't some WCW syndie squash either; this was the opening ten minutes of a match where he has to get his World Title back. I've mentioned I don't know how many times about how Benoit sells desperation with his moves and mannerisms, but here it was a new kind of desperation. Usually his desperation comes from working on the bottom, making sure his opponent's offense doesn't continue. Instead of that, here, we have him working on the top and making sure his opponent never gets on offense, period. Those chopppppps. He yells with each one, and Orton yells with each one. Orton also yells when Benoit gets to the outside and plants his knee on the steps. Benoit locks the sharpshooter in, and while Orton's selling sounded just the little bit goofy, I kind of bought it as him being in so much pain that he's making funny noises. He really put the shooter over; raking at his mouth to distract himself from the pain, and when Benoit let go he gave this 'oh my God' sigh of relief. He was eating such a shit-kicking that I was wondering how in hell he was going to actually get on offense credibly. Well a dropkick from the apron to the barricade did the trick. Orton targets Benoit's head/neck and really just does a great job while doing it. The headlock/chinlock/whatever looked brutal. Like Randy was seriously pushing his entire body weight on Benoit's, while tugging and squeezing the shit out of it. He sells the injured wheel throughout it as well, including a great moment where he yells 'goddamnit' when hitting a knee drop. Yeah, I didn't like the finish. Again, not horrible, but it made me go from 'possibly on the list great' to just 'great'. And we all know how 'JUST great' things suck. But no, I didn't think it was needed and seemed like something purely designed to get HHH back on top, since he spent a whole one PPV out of the main event. Still, this is pretty tremendous and on a good day I could see myself not as bothered by the ending.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm okay with Evolution's interference because Benoit was meant to look strong rather than jobbing two nights in a row to Orton completely clean. Plus, it wouldn't have done either of them any favors since HHH owned Orton in every turn following the face turn.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Honestly I'd admit there's a few logical reasons why Evolution SHOULD have interfered and I can't even say why I hate it so much. I guess I was just THAT into the match that a bunch of guys running in just felt deflating, like Benoit and Orton deserved a better ending than 'this is about HHH' now. I've been much less bothered by much worse interferences, IDK if I can pinpoint why but this specific one drove me nuts. I wish I wasn't bothered by it.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I actually watched Angle v Henry from Judgement Day 06 recently (having put the disc in to see Benoit/Finlay after having watched their Slamboree 98 match). Was Angle/Henry suppossed to end in a count out like that? The finished looked a bit botched - Henry was going to bodysplash Angle through an announce table by jumping from another but it looked like Angle moved too early. I liked the match actually though I don't like Henry. I particularly liked the stuff at the start where Angle tries to slam Henry with suplexes at the start but can't lift him thus selling his size/girth.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> "WHAT A MANOEUVRE!! WHAT A COMPETTITOR!!"
> 
> Vince's commentary while always awful is funny in retrospect.
> 
> Was the Austin v Mankind match billed as a 'Toughman' match? I have that on Foley's first DVD and I recall it being a fun brawl.


 Not too sure about that label. They didn't really have time to announce and introduce the wrestlers because Mankind attacked Austin right from the entrance and they started brawling. 

It's quite funny that Ahmed Johnson started feuding with the Nation, joined them and later feuded again.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

MITB 2013 will be a worldwide blu ray release. That means Bryan vs. Sheamus and Bryan vs. Christian in HD!


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Finally got around to watching my DVD of TLC 2012. Back in December, I had all but given up on wrestling. I had stopped watching in May 2012. WM 28 was disappointment (largely due to Rock/Cena IMO), UT and HHH were part-timers, and there was nothing positive on the horizon. The inexplicable feud between Cena and Ace, rehash of Cena/Show, RAW 1000 being kinda week, etc. Even the HHH/Lesnar feud, a dream match of mine, was boring.

I had tried watching RAW in October '12, the day after HIAC. The whole episode built up to Punk/Foley, but by the next week, the entire card was completely reassembled.

I had read that TLC was actually good, so I gave it a download, and it reminded me of how much fun a ppv could be. My review:

*Tables Match*: Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara vs. Team Rhodes Scholars
You can never go wrong with Mysterio in the opener. This was nonstop fun, had some innovative moves, and I was suspense about who would hit the table spot. Everyone looked great here, and the pace was good. I love the finish. Rhodes gave Sin Cara such a mean push, and the end came out of nowhere, but made sense.

***

*United States Championship*: Antonio Cesaro vs. R-Truth
For the time they got, these two had a nice little match. Cesaro can certainly wrestle, R-Truth is always exciting, and did a lot in just a few minutes.

**3/4

*United States Championship*: Kofi Kingston vs. Wade Barrett
Same story here. They only had 8 minutes, but this was a blast. There were some nice nearfalls, Barrett looked vicious, this was nice.

**3/4

*TLC Match* Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield
Every now and then you hear about a match everyone is talking about, you watch it, and you say "was that it?"

This is not one of those matches.

This is the match that got me back into wrestling. This is the match that instantly made me fans of The Shield. I've watched this match about 4 times since December, and I love every time. Such smart spots, Ryback looked like a beast, DB was so quick, Shield divided and conquered so perfectly, even Kane hit some great moves. This match is like Rock/Austin at WM 17: there is not one dull moment. Not one in 23 minutes. Great match and definite MOTYC.

****1/2

*Divas Title*: Eve vs. Naomi
For 3 minutes long, Naomi showed some potential, Eve is despicable as always, and not bad at all.

**

*World Heavyweight Championship*: The Big Show vs. Sheamus
While their first match was certainly the best of this series, they kept the quality pretty high here. The stip finally made sense here, as Sheamus had beaten Show with a chair pretty bad at Survivor Series. They kept the pace going, had some nice nearfalls, and the finish, which is still a gag, is at least memorable and kind of awesome, depending on who you ask. These two had good chemistry.

***1/4

*Six-Man Tag Team Match*: The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, & The Brooklyn Brawler
Anywhere else, and this would've been crap. But given that it's Brooklyn, the surprise partner made this fun. Weird how they got 3 minutes here, and when it was Miz, Del Rio vs. 3MB the next night, they got 16 minutes. This was entertaining while it lasted.

**

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*: John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler
Considering that this match was a mid-card feud and wasn't expected to main event (I think it was going to be Punk/Ryback TLC until Punk got injured), they ran with this nicely as a main eventer. Ziggler looked amazing, the crowd went nuts for his every move, he really held his own against Cena, and had a counter for almost every one of his moves. It was really hard to tell who was going to win this, and I have to admit, I was shocked when AJ turned on Cena. Maybe it's because I wasn't keeping up with the product at the time so it was hard for me to tell anyway. But this was more of a wrestling match with ladders than a 'ladder' match, but I kind of like that. Great main event.

****


All in all, you get a MOTYC, a great main event, a damn good world title match, a few gems, and no one DUD on the card. Very fun show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton/ADR was decent good back and forth match

Just watched Cody/Rey wm 27 again wow this was fun, big superhero guy so I got a kick out of rey"s attire. Back when Cody had the unmasked gimmick. Short match, about 16 mins but very fun, ppl who say mania 27 was a one match show have never seen this


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's a shame that Wrestlemania 27 was plagued by the shitstains that were Cole vs. Lawler & Cena vs. Miz, because I thought the undercard was quite solid. Edge/Del Rio, Rey/Cody, and Orton/Punk were all in the *** - *** 1/2 range for me. Taker/HHH is the obvious attention grabber.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd prefer all three other matches over Undertaker vs Triple H. Still, those were the only positives for anyone to take away from the event. Rest + nonsensical filler is the pits.

Can't wait to finally watch it on DVD in a few days though. :troll


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I'd say Punk-Taker from SD 10/09/10 is on par, if not better than their Wrestlemania 29 bout.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Taker/Punk SD match was their best for me (by a considerable amount to), until Mania 29 blew it away.

Oh, and here's 40-31 of Taker matches for me:

(***3/4)
40) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi Armageddon 2000 (WWE Championship Hell in a Cell)
39) Undertaker vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H vs. Big Show vs. Vladimir Koslov No Way Out 2009 (WWE Championship Elimination Chamber)
38) Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho vs. John Morrison vs. CM Punk vs. R-Truth vs. Rey Mysterio Elimination Chamber 2010 (World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber)
37) Undertaker vs. Big Show No Mercy 2008
36) Undertaker vs. Triple H Wrestlemania 17
35) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Royal Rumble 1998 (WWE Championship Casket Match)
34) Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy Raw July 1st, 2002 (WWE Undisputed Championship Ladder Match)
33) Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar Unforgiven 2002 (WWE Championship)
32) Undertaker vs. John Cena Vengeance 2003
31) Undertaker vs. Finlay Smackdown March 9th, 2007


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

I hate Taker-Shawn Casket Match, such a flat work style and what's with Taker EXCESSIVELY gorilla pressing Shawn. It's actually a tradition in every match between these two, WM25, HIAC, Ground Zero, Casket. It was excluded from the WM26 match, considering it was Shawn's last. I'm guessing, Taker didn't want to belittle Shawn's size and show off his own power.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*(33 - 24) My Personal Top 60 Undertaker Matches*

Part 1 (60 - 50) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...show-discussion-thread-1927.html#post21336753

Part 2 (49 - 43) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21343833-post19293.html

Part 3 (42 - 34) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21352249-post19321.html


*33. The Undertaker vs. Mankind (Summerslam 1996)*











*32. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (IYH: Ground Zero 1997)*











*31. The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (Wrestlemania 21)*











*30. The Undertaker vs. Batista (Smackdown 11/05/07) *











*29. The Undertaker vs. John Cena (Smackdown 22/06/04)*











*28. The Undertaker vs. Edge (Backlash 2008)*











*27. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (Smackdown 10/09/10)*











*26. The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (Unforgiven 2002)*











*25. The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Fully Loaded 1999)*











*24. The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 17)*









I like this picture a lot. ​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Binging on some 80s tag team action, and I'm not sure if The Rockers or The Hart Foundation Were the GOAT WWE tag team. So many classics from both teams.

HF/Rougeaus MSG 86: ******
HF/Killer Bees MSG 86: *****1/4*
HF/Rockers SNME: ******


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only saw Taker vs Punk 2010 match on the original air date. Wouldn't object to myself watching it again to refresh things.

While I thought it was pretty great, Taker vs Edge II making it that high on the list was a surprise.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Pleasant surprise at such high rating of Taker/Edge II. That was a great and truly underrated match. Hell, the entire Backlash 2008 card can be filed under "beyond underrated". MVP/Matt was very good, HBK/Batista was great, the Fatal 4-Way was great, hell I really enjoyed Show/Khali for what it was - not everyday you see one of the worst wrestlers in History spawn such a crisp crossface like that


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Just watched CM Punk v Undertaker Sept '10 SmackDown. Erm, it's an ok 10minute TV match but doesn't hold a candle to their Mania match. It lacks heat and just kind of plods along. The final few mins are the highlight obviously and they finally woke the crowd up. The commentators spend the whole match just plugging that pitiful Taker/Kane '10 feud.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

A Top 6 matches of 2013 list I found on Bleacher:



> 1. Cena vs Punk, Raw 2/25
> 2. Taker vs Punk, WrestleMania
> 3. Hell No & Taker vs Shield, Raw 4/22
> 4. Punk vs Jericho, Payback
> ...


I'm one of the few advocates for Punk/Jericho, didn't mind too much RVD/Jericho either and, after a rewatch, raised up a lot my opinion on the MITB All-Stars. But, those 3 in the WWE Top 6 matches of the year? Nope.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

'Taker/Edge II is the only match of their feud I don't remember actually, huh... I should get on that again.

Unchained, how dare you call VEGETATIVE STATE: THE FEUD pitiful?

It was pretty damn bad though, at least I got the 'Taker/Kane Hell In A Cell I always wanted... shame it was awful.

Best bit of the feud was Undertaker's comeback at Summerslam, man he sold his mortality well there so well in fact that many idiots on here just thought he was really old, masterful wee sell job.

BUGGER IT RATINGS:

33. The Undertaker vs. Mankind (Summerslam 1996) - ***1/4 (It's fun, some parts of it are sensational, I understand why they went for the no crowd noise or commentary thing but it just sucks me out the match)
32. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (IYH: Ground Zero 1997) - *** (It's a brawl, 'Taker hits his coolest dive, aye)
31. The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (Wrestlemania 21) - ***1/2 (I've never really got the mass hype for this match, I mean it's good and I'm sure watching it live was bloody tense but I've just never... felt it)
30. The Undertaker vs. Batista (Smackdown 11/05/07) - ***1/2 (I'm a sucker for cage matches and this is a pretty damn good one, great finish too)
29. The Undertaker vs. John Cena (Smackdown 22/06/04) - No fucking recollection
28. The Undertaker vs. Edge (Backlash 2008) - ditto
27. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (Smackdown 10/09/10) - That motherfucking pink blob that clones people in Pokemon
26. The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (Unforgiven 2002) - *** (Perfectly serviceable wee brawl)
25. The Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (Fully Loaded 1999) - ****1/4 (I've always really, really loved this match, I'm not entirely sure why)
24. The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 17) - REF BUMP/*****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Pleasant surprise at such high rating of Taker/Edge II. That was a great and truly underrated match. Hell, the entire Backlash 2008 card can be filed under "beyond underrated". *MVP/Matt was very good*, HBK/Batista was great, the Fatal 4-Way was great, hell I really enjoyed Show/Khali for what it was - not everyday you see one of the worst wrestlers in History spawn such a crisp crossface like that


:favre

Please tell me it's been awhile since you last watched. I was in utter shock by how horrid the work in the match was. MVP standard match: work a body part, get bored, do another work a body part thingy, drop top hole, attempted or connected kick, go back to crappy haphazard style of rest holds. Matt Hardy being Matt Hardy couldn't even save it. 

As for that show on the whole, I'm not much of a fan. Watched it after putting it off for so long and felt like I didn't miss much. Actually preferred Kane vs Chavo & Show vs Khali over 2/3 of the main events.

Which now takes me to what I originally was going to post in here, ironically dealing with that swine Montel Vontavious Porter:

Batista vs Porter No Holds Barred match was bleh. It went nearly nine minutes without a commercial break and none of it was worth talking about in the slightest. It managed to not be bad, but forgettable isn't a positive quality you want as the "next best thing". Both made some liberal use of the stip at least. Which contributed to the match once it "returned" from the break. Batista hits a wollop of a spear, match introduces a chair, and as things seemed to pick up the match ends. Umaga enters to own Batista and that's it. Eh. One may be tricked by the hot crowd eating it up, but this wasn't good. I'm settling with bleh/ok only b/c it wasn't bad like their last three matches were. Meanwhile their first match in January was actually good. Why couldn't they all be like that? Feels like I'm left saying that a lot with MVP programs. vs Benoit on PPV series for example: Really, REALLY like their bout at WM. Following shows do nothing for me. So, it's more than _"MVP is only working vs Batista who's meh most of the time"_. Even when he (Porter) has a good opponent like a Benoit or Hardy it doesn't always average out to being worth seeing. To end this on a chipper note, go watch that tag match I plugged some pages back that included MVP. He was good in that. Everyone was.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I was sitting with my friend who only just got into wrestling properly this year and MVP was randomly on the screen and he asked me to describe him and I just had the sudden epiphany that actually MVP wasn't that good, was weird, like I was sure he was but... nah.

I call it Mr Kennedy syndrome.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker Top 30-21:

(***3/4)
30) Undertaker vs. Batista Backlash 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship Last Man Standing)
(****)
29) Undertaker, Rock, Chris Jericho, Kane, and Big Show vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam, Booker T, and Shane McMahon Survivor Series 2001
28) Undertaker and Batista vs. John Cena and Shawn Michaels No Way Out 2007
27) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Smackdown September 16th, 2005
26) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin Fully Loaded 1999 (WWE Championship First Blood Match)
25) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle Smackdown March 3rd, 2006 (World Heavyweight Championship)
24) Undertaker vs. Mankind King of the Ring 1998 (Hell in a Cell)
23) Undertaker vs. Ric Flair Wrestlemania 18
22) Undertaker vs. Triple H Wrestlemania 28 (Hell in a Cell Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels)
21) Undertaker vs. Kane Wrestlemania 14


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig said:


> I was sitting with my friend who only just got into wrestling properly this year and MVP was randomly on the screen and he asked me to describe him and I just had the sudden epiphany that actually MVP wasn't that good, was weird, like I was sure he was but... nah.
> 
> I call it Mr Kennedy syndrome.


Isn't that the truth? I used to be a fan, thought he was good, the whole nine yards. Then I re-watched Great American Bash 2007 on a whim for some fun only to realize the fallacy that my brain produced for so many years.

Kennedy syndrome - spot on.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually indeed it has been awhile, but from what I remember, I think you're being a little too harsh on it.

Checked out the old "Wrestlers with the most overrated matches" thread, and it bugged me how Kurt Angle got barely any mention. The match with Benoit at Royal Rumble alone is the personification of "overrated spotfest" imo.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember MVP being really good at his best in 07/08. He was trash and as bad as anybody in the WWE by 2010 (that Husky Harris match was complete ass), and admittedly it's been while since I've watched lumps of peak MVP, but I suddenly want to now given the hate he's been getting. I did see him v. Chris Masters from 2012 and he looked perfectly fine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If his '08 drastically improves _(lol, I know it won't, seen all his PPV matches & he begins to be a jobber post-SummerSlam)_ I'll eat my one hat that I own and never wear.

The only thing I'm hoping for is that the qualifier vs Festus for the Championship Scramble is good. Gets eight minutes and Festus owns. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally started my Brock Lesnar project. Still love watching his debut, following week he super clothslines Molly Holly  Weird hearing his generic music when he first was drafted to Raw too.

:mark:


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

I never got the hype for the Taker-Orton matches either. Particularly the Mania 21 one as Taker was injured afaik and I think it was a short 10-15min match. Randy should've been put over by Undi but it started at Mania with him losing and ended in a Cell match with him losing. This stuff about 'gettin a rub from Undertaker' doesn't wash with me since he's buried as many if not more wrestlers than HHH in the last 10 years or so (with a few exceptions obviously).


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*(23 - 11) My Personal Top 60 Undertaker Matches*

Part 1 (60 - 50) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...show-discussion-thread-1927.html#post21336753

Part 2 (49 - 43) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21343833-post19293.html

Part 3 (42 - 34) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21352249-post19321.html

Part 4 (33 - 24) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21373457-post19344.html


*23. The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (Smackdown 03/03/06)*











*22. The Undertaker vs. Mankind (King Of The Ring 1998)*











*21. The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (Summerslam 2005)*











*20. The Undertaker vs. Big Show (Cyber Sunday 2008) *











*19. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart (Summerslam 1997)*











*18. The Undertaker vs. Batista (Survivor Series 2007)*











*17. The Undertaker vs. Edge (Wrestlemania 24)*











*16. The Undertaker vs. Mankind (IYH: The Revenge Of The Taker 1997)*











*15. The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy (RAW 01/07/02)*











*14. The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (Armageddon 2005)*











*13. The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair (Wrestlemania 18)*











*12. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk (Wrestlemania 29)*










*11. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart (One Night Only 1997)*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the sake of it, I'm going to start a ranking of ALL the WWE PPV Main Events ever. It'll be tricky but w/e. And yes, that counts MITB cash-ins too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Onto Judgment Day '02 in my Brock watching, funny about Ryback getting the Goldberg chants, so was Brock during his first few weeks.

Loving Brock destroying the Hardy's mostly so far lol.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I totally forgot Eddie/Benoit happen at Armageddon 2002, just a shame that couldn't save it from being the worse PPV of the year. Oh and the Booker/Goldust winning the tag titles was a great moment.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eddie/Benoit from Armageddon is awesome and nearly as good as their Vengeance match for their WWE work.

I also don't find Batista/Taker inside HIAC that good. By far their worst match from the 07 series.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Forever Unchained said:


> I never got the hype for the Taker-Orton matches either. Particularly the Mania 21 one as Taker was injured afaik and I think it was a short 10-15min match. Randy should've been put over by Undi but it started at Mania with him losing and ended in a Cell match with him losing. This stuff about 'gettin a rub from Undertaker' doesn't wash with me since he's buried as many if not more wrestlers than HHH in the last 10 years or so (with a few exceptions obviously).


Orton didn't just get a rub from Taker, he got put back over. Orton was buried by HHH in that feud, looked weak in defeat, lost most of the credibility he had and was essentially back in the mid-card before his feud with Taker. However the feud with Taker is what made him credible again and kept him going until he fucked up and got suspended or something in 2006. He may have lost the feud but he battled with Taker for the whole year, picked up some big wins, even "destroyed" Taker for a brief time. That's what he gained from that and I'd say it took him even further up the card than where he was in his peak in 2004.

As far as the matches go, if you don't like them or the feud as a whole as much as others... well, more power to others.

Edit: After typing this and reading it back, I realize it's been 8 years since that Taker/Orton feud, and 8 years before that I wasn't even watching WWE. It's funny though because those 7 years I watched WWE from 1998-2005 seemed a lot longer than 2005-now. In fact, it kinda feels like yesterday that Taker/Orton feud was taking place.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Well I just watched the Taker - Orton match from Wrestlemania and it's still a great match IMO. Four stars for it. That chokeslam - RKO reversal is always a moment where I thought the streak would truly end lol.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Orton/Taker WrestleMania is a great match. I even have it over Punk/Taker. The feud was a lot better than Punk/Taker too. Orton in 2004/2005 was just awesome.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Orton/Taker WrestleMania is a great match. I even have it over Punk/Taker. The feud was a lot better than Punk/Taker too. Orton in 2004/2005 was just awesome.


 Agree. Punk/Taker feud seemed like they were thinking of new ways to mock Paul Bearer each week. It makes me wonder what the storyline would have been if Bearer had not passed away.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Agree. Punk/Taker feud seemed like they were thinking of new ways to mock Paul Bearer each week. It makes me wonder what the storyline would have been if Bearer had not passed away.


The feud was terrible and it almost killed my interest leading up for the match, but when the match actually happened it delivered well and I really enjoyed it. But fuck that awful feud.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Agree. Punk/Taker feud seemed like they were thinking of new ways to mock Paul Bearer each week. It makes me wonder what the storyline would have been if Bearer had not passed away.


I always wondered this too. It was clear they didn't know what the actual fuck they were going to do lol. Seeing as how it came out of nowhere and then Paul's unfortunate passing was a blessing in WWE's creative eyes.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I would put the Taker/Orton build to Mania above the Taker/Punk build, but I'd easily put the Taker/Punk match above the Taker/Orton.

However I also don't think the Taker/Punk build was as bad as people have made it out to be. It made sense kayfabe wise as a way for Punk to tip the playing field in his favor, by taking the source of Taker's power, and playing mind games with the master of mind games himself. The stuff specifically related to Bearer didn't need to happen, but I don't think any of it was really done in bad taste. Although the last segment between them came close to crossing the line.

As far as what they would've done with Taker/Punk, I think the key was in his promo when he first declared his interest in the streak and in a promo at a house show. It was originally probably about Punk and how he wants to take something from the fans (the streak) since they took away his WWE Title (through supporting Rock's return). How they actually would've gone about the feud beyond that... I don't know, but it seemed kind of bland on paper. It's why I'm glad they decided to make things interesting with the Bearer/urn stuff.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk and Heyman were GODS in the Taker/Punk feud. That last segment with Heyman dressing up as bearer only for Punk to pour the ashes all over himself to end the show was a powerful image for time to come. I thought Punk did fucking excellent for a feud that was really out of the blue and random (even how punk got the match in the first place, a fucking fatal four way? Are you fucking kidding me?) with the match being superb as we already know. It also gave us that FUCKING AMAZING Living Color entrance as well.

Speaking of FUCKING AWESOME, just watched Goldberg/DDP from HH 98 and I'm 100 percent convinced that its better than anything else the WWE put on from that year by quite a margin. The spear into the post as an opening for DDP gives me fucking chills as its compelling storytelling that's not overly melodramatic ALA 2000s HBK and it just has an overlying RAW feeling to it. I love the Steiner match, but this one is just something else.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

How can anyone hate that? :lmao

I liked the feud for what it was; a four-week, thrown-together build towards a single match. I'm not sure you can even call that a "feud" tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just got to the second Brock/Bubba Ray match on Raw, I thought the first one was excellent, and Bubba looked great. Brock now has his familiar music 

Also had a thought of what if - Scott Steiner/Brock Lesnar :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

STOP, don't make me cry over the fact that we never got Brock Vs Scotty boy.

That Brock Vs Bubba match is pure excellence and in retrospect it really deserved a look on my top Brock Lesnar matches list. Maybe I cut it due to time constraints or something, which is a mistake I won't be making when it comes to Henry-Tajiri on my Mark Henry list. When you think about how awesome Brock Vs Goldberg actually should have been you start to feel a little depressed, alot of people don't understand just how much of a colossal disappointment it actually is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Everyone seems to look better against Brock, just now onto a very nice match against Test in a KOTR qualifying match, really enjoyable. Moving onto the final against Van Dam.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

When I think of Brock/Goldberg gone right, I instantly think of Batista/Taker at WM 23 for some reason.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

been watching some 2011 again- I actually really enjoyed this year
*
Christian vs Alberto del rio ex 11*
- OK so I gave this a rewatching to see how it stands, Ive seen MOTY and MOTY runner up thrown at it before. Its ok nothing great nothing bad but nothing even close to MOTY, kinda dull, its not a complete spot-fest as their is some wrestling in the beginning but its just kinda boring.
*
Cody Rhodes vs Rey Mysterio wm 27 and 4/22/11*
- ok so I put these two together because their similar in style. I LOVED both, just the definition of FUN. I like to go on websites such as BR and wwe.com to see their lists and what others think and their mania bout barely cracks them with the sd rematch not even on any, why ? these are soo good and are probably in my top 10 for 2011. 

The cody/rey matches are a good example why I'm against stars. I love theses matches alot, to most there 14 minutes sprints with all of action, I really enjoyed them so I could give them ****1/2-3/4, I'd look stupid


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> When I think of Brock/Goldberg gone right, I instantly think of Batista/Taker at WM 23 for some reason.


This match always make me sad/mad. Sucks they phoned that in.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KOTR 2002 rematch with Van Dam, still a few of the crowds chanting "Goldberg", I forgot that this occurred. I like the matches with Van Dam though, think they have a third at Vengeance don't they?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I'd easily put the RAW & Vengeance matches over the KOTR bout though, even though all three are really good & physical as fuck contests.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah, I'd easily put the RAW & Vengeance matches over the KOTR bout though, even though all three are really good & physical as fuck contests.


Looking forward to the Vengeance match, I thought Van Dam/Brock had great chemistry and the matches seemed to flow.

Onto the Raw now where Heyman and Brock challenge any veteran.....and out comes The Nature Boy 

Also, was Brock the first one to coin the phrase 'Ruthless Agression'.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RVD match from Vengeance is awesome.

Speaking of matches that should've been great, I think of BROCK in 2003 going against Orton in 2004 (or 2005). What an awesome match-up that would've been. I really hope they still go through with this match since the opportunity is there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

God I rewatched all the Taker/Austin PPV Main Events, and boy do plenty of them suck. The Triple Threat w/Kane was garbage.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> God I rewatched all the Taker/Austin PPV Main Events, and boy do plenty of them suck. The Triple Threat w/Kane was garbage.




Austin/Taker featured the most disappointing matches of all time in terms of pairing two great talents. Just never ever clicked one bit. I have they're best match at ***1/2. That being they're nodq match at JD 01.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Austin's two best matches were awesome, but the rest of them werent quite up to par of the two guys star power and abilities.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Juventud v Kidman, World War 3

Great pace, counters and a hot crowd, not many cruiserweight matches better then this, go watch it now.

****1/4


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle - WWE Unforgiven 2002: **** *

Great match. Benoit and Angle exchange some technical/amateur wrestling holds in the beginning to feel each other out which escalates to some great back and forth action. From exchanging German suplexes to reversing each other's finishers, it was a fun match to watch with a nice ending with Benoit using the ropes for leverage for the win. Overall, great match with great back and forth action.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I'm one of the few left here that still likes most of the Angle/Benoit matches. Their RR match isn't five stars for me anymore, but I still really enjoy it, as well as all their other bouts minus the cage match.

Austin and Taker did not have that natural chemistry, but I actually liked five of their matches. SS 98 was very disappointing, but I thought they did an alright job considering that they were knocked woozy in the beginning. FL 99 was probably the third best match of 1999, which isn't really saying much, but it was good. I also liked their RAW match in 99. JD 2001 is probably their best work together. They also had a good underrated match on SD in 2001 for the title.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

The Sandrone said:


> Orton didn't just get a rub from Taker, he got put back over. Orton was buried by HHH in that feud, looked weak in defeat, lost most of the credibility he had and was essentially back in the mid-card before his feud with Taker. However the feud with Taker is what made him credible again and kept him going until he fucked up and got suspended or something in 2006. He may have lost the feud but he battled with Taker for the whole year, picked up some big wins, even "destroyed" Taker for a brief time. That's what he gained from that and I'd say it took him even further up the card than where he was in his peak in 2004.
> 
> As far as the matches go, if you don't like them or the feud as a whole as much as others... well, more power to others.
> 
> Edit: After typing this and reading it back, I realize it's been 8 years since that Taker/Orton feud, and 8 years before that I wasn't even watching WWE. It's funny though because those 7 years I watched WWE from 1998-2005 seemed a lot longer than 2005-now. In fact, it kinda feels like yesterday that Taker/Orton feud was taking place.


Alright, you won me over so I'll rewatch their 05 matches but I still think Orton didn't come out of it as well as he could have ie he'd actually 'killed the legend' as his gimmick suggested. If I recall his destroying Taker involved lots of outside help from his old man.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> *
> Christian vs Alberto del rio ex 11*
> - OK so I gave this a rewatching to see how it stands, Ive seen MOTY and MOTY runner up thrown at it before. Its ok nothing great nothing bad but nothing even close to MOTY, kinda dull, its not a complete spot-fest as their is some wrestling in the beginning but its just kinda boring.


YES.

That match was a lot less than what I was anticipating. Their straight up singles matches on Smackdown that year >>>>. Cage match too from my memory. All that match had was the awesome moment of Christian winning, tbf. It's not horrible or anything, I just couldn't really get into what they were doing.



Choke2Death said:


> I also don't find Batista/Taker inside HIAC that good. By far their worst match from the 07 series.


Amen. Not a fan of it at all. It's rather boring. Another match where I dig the logic forming finish - even though it destroyed me while watching live - meanwhile the bulk of the match does nothing for me.



Duke Silver said:


> How can anyone hate that? :lmao
> 
> I liked the feud for what it was; a four-week, thrown-together build towards a single match. I'm not sure you can even call that a "feud" tbh.


Love it. Those two could have cut promos about crackheads and I still would have been giddy for it. Instead, Rock did that & made me care even less about Twice in a Lifetime. So, Punk vs Taker build was more than fine.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Did this go anywhere?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just to get Vince off television after a series of misfortunes halted the angle. 

Regal, Kennedy, & eventually Benoit put the kibosh on any plans he had behind the blow up thingy. Which is why that random filler bit with Hornswoggle was introduced.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just got back from playing basketball all day in 93 degree weather :| what everyone watching

@Cody what are your thoughts on the rey/cody series from 2011


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not to spout off on the ol hyperbole, but I like to think I was one of the biggest supporters of it. Thought it was fabulous in consideration to the matches they delivered at WM, Smackdown in England, & Extreme Rules, respectively + Rhodes' promos which unveiled a completely new side to his game. Only affirmed how I knew Cody Rhodes was capable of such talents since day one. It was tough being a fan back in '07. 8*D


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Just to get Vince off television after a series of misfortunes halted the angle.
> 
> Regal, & Kennedy put the kibosh on any plans he had behind the blow up thingy. Which is why that random filler bit with Hornswoggle was introduced.


Ah, I see. I really wonder where they were gonna go with Kennedy if he didn't get suspended.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

nah dude you dont have to tell me, I absolutely ADORE those matches and IM saving their ex for tonite. I think the london and mania are outstanding and criminally underrated

Who you telling Cody (Rhodes) looked so generic of legacy it wasnt funny, he was extremely boring also


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never got the boring remarks. I saw a young pup rookie type role for him and that's it. Nothing wrong with a lad just being himself trying to make it in the biz. Then once he turned heel, he let a new side of his personality shine through. Something he's managed to do at every new stage of his career. 

Young rookie babyface
Cocky "don't need to pay dues" second gen heel
Devious henchman & eventual dubious heel
Pretty boy obsessive with looks heel
DARK & TWISTED heel :mark:
Best of both worlds, fully complete now seasoned WWE tenured heel
Apparent seasoned babyface

Hasn't been a point where I didn't enjoy him. Even while he was roaming as a dreg with Legacy. That was more or less only to feed the eventual break up, though. Once he'd be drafted & became "Dashing" it was off to the races.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thats actually a great description of his gimmicks in the past and now, yea I like Cody, interested to see how his babyface run goes, if he keeps the "rick rude" look or changes. I think the thing with him is people say him in the ring is "boring" but I get a "old-school" feel from him,, he does everything good, not great,


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His look seems to be sticking. Not to mention the _"Cody's Mustache"_ chant now may becoming endearing for him to use as a babyface. Much like Kurt Angle embracing the _"You Suck"_ chants back in 2003 - early '04.

I'd dub him as good with the capabilities of working great. He's had some strong matches before and is generally consistent. That's a quality combo for me when it comes to the in ring acumen.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Finally got a chance to watch the 2013 MITB matches. Really enjoyed both, but thought Smackdown was far better, and thought everyone did extremely well, and there was some neat innovation with the ladders. Fandango's sunset flip over the ladder into the powerbomb on Barrett was pretty awesome, as was Ambrose skinning the cat with Swagger and Cesaro holding the ladder. Cody hoisting Cesaro up and dropping on the ladder was also pretty sweet. ****1/4

Raw match was pretty good as well, but lacked the higher amount of sweet spots that the Smackdown match had. Crowd was super hot for everyone, with the exception of Sheamus. He's probably the one that god booed. RVD looked pretty great in his return match, and I really dug the Five Star from the ladder. The ending to this was so backwards to me, but I can only hope that Orton's character changes when or before he cashes in. I guess this was the best way for Heyman to turn on Punk, and I'm fine with how they did it. I really think Bryan winning and announcing he was cashing in on Cena at Summerslam would have been so much better than Cena "picking" him. Bryan winning the briefcase also would have garnered a HUGE reaction, and would been a better way to end the show. Orton winning was certainly a surprise, though. Gave this match ***3/4.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just discovered this awesome channel that has uploaded every WWE PPV from 2001-2004. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't too big on the All Stars match outside of a few here and there moments. Seems like each year since 2011 has had a ladder match outshine the other. 2010 was dead even; probably why that's been the best MITB PPV so far.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Royal Rumble 2001 is kinda bad outside Kane's individual performance, I think the majority let one's astonishing performance exclude the other ones in judgement.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that Rumble is droll. I can do without ever seeing it again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What matters the most from that event is Benoit/Jericho. That match is so great, gotta see it again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I meant the Rumble match only itself. I had no gripes with the rest of the show. Then again, I skipped Trips vs Angle the last time I watched. Didn't care.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The main reason I came across that video was to watch Angle/HHH in the first place since I've never seen it before. Haven't seen the Rumble itself in about 2 years now, so I could do with a refresher there as well. I do remember it being good, specially with Kane's performance. Another thing I remember well is Ron Killings (K-Kwik) making an appearance.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did Cody just say what I thought he said? Never EVER heard someone pick MITB 2010 over 2011. Move over everyone, THAT is an unpopular opinion.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I meant the Rumble match only itself. I had no gripes with the rest of the show. Then again, I skipped Trips vs Angle the last time I watched. Didn't care.


Trips/Angle is pretty nice, even with the Steph/Trish/Austin stuff going on. Gave it ****.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't love the 01 Rumble match. Never cared for 92 much either. 04 and 07 Rumble matches are where it's fucking at tbhayley.

Jericho/Benoit ladder love. :mark: It's up there with my all-time WWE/F favorites.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

To each his/her own BUUUUUUUT I can't believe a wrestling fan doesn't enjoy the 1992 Rumble match. So damn entertaining.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Rumble 04 trumps all. 07 is a far behind 2nd, but still great for the final showdown.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I never really got the love for 2007. Up until the final two I don't remember a whole lot happening other than an unneeded table spot and a bunch of guys teaming up to get Viscera out. Michaels/Taker was a good end, but there's like an hour before it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I liked how well Finlay did. Edge and Orton were great as well. The only downfall actually for me was Khali. I do prefer 04 though.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

One of my favorite memories from the 07 Rumble was HBK shouting to Khali to look at the right camera angle to taunt because he was facing the wrong way lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did Cody just say what I thought he said? Never EVER heard someone pick MITB 2010 over 2011. Move over everyone, THAT is an unpopular opinion.


Really? Probably b/c 2011 held Punker vs Cena & had that crowd reaction. 2010 is just an overall stronger event on a whole. Doesn't have a bad match. Well, the Women's Championship match sucks, but it didn't feel like a hindrance and actually felt like a proper place to hold a filler match. _(similar to Extreme Rules 2012)_ Rest of the show was all good. Mysterio vs Swagger > most from 2011 for me. 2011 was a split the difference show: World Championship Ladder match, Show vs Henry, & Punk vs Cena. RAW ladder match was clunky & not too memorable that night. Christian vs Orton was the same crap over again, & Brie vs Kelly...yeah.



iwatchwrestling said:


> Trips/Angle is pretty nice, even with the Steph/Trish/Austin stuff going on. Gave it ****.


Maybe I'll give it a try one of these days on a whim.



Huganomics said:


> Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't love the 01 Rumble match. Never cared for 92 much either. 04 and 07 Rumble matches are where it's fucking at tbhayley.
> 
> Jericho/Benoit ladder love. :mark: It's up there with my all-time WWE/F favorites.


I'll always love '92. That roster was at an arguable all time high. Such talent. Plus, Savage coming in to destroy Jake. My STARS.

Best ladder match in company history for my money. Only one I can think of that I like almost as much is Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy in '02.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Undertaker vs. Jeff :mark:. I love that match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

In terms of top-down action, I guess 2010 beats 2011 as a whole. But the way I look at it, MITB 2011 had Punk/Cena which, imo, is enough to make it the better event. You can't argue with Punk/Cena dammit, you just can't. 

The GOAT PPV of the PG era is Extreme Rules 2012 though. Which, to this freaking day, I have yet to get on DVD.

EDIT: Taker/Jeff reminds me of why I love this damn thing called pro wrestling so much! The post-match segment is wrestling drama at its best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never would argue Punk vs Cena since I'd claim it to be "five stars" & tied for my 2011 MOTY. Nor is that the point here. I'm the kind of guy where an entire really good show from top to bottom > a one match show.

Always will be.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I just finished HHH vs Angle from Royal Rumble. ★★★ because I found it a bit slow. Just not big on Game's control segments where he tries to be Flair and work on the leg. At least with Flair, it leads to his finisher, HHH's use of it is nothing more than a glorified resthold. Also the Trish/Stephanie stuff, while funny, took away from it. For like two minutes, they keep "fighting" as if there's not a match going on in the middle of the ring.

On the topic of MITB, I've only seen a couple of matches from 2010 and they were all strong, but not enough to put it over 2011 which has Punk/Cena, Christian/Orton and two solid ladder matches. Plus that awesome crowd!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Never would argue Punk vs Cena since I'd claim it to be "five stars" & tied for my 2011 MOTY. Nor is that the point here. I'm the kind of guy where an entire really good show from top to bottom > a one match show.
> 
> Always will be.


I'm more of a 4 solid matches, a great one and an awesome main event> 6 solid matches.

Different strokes, I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that makes sense when I was talking about one match shows being the comparison.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

MITB 2011 pisses all over MITB 2010 for Cena/Punk alone. Add in the two MITB matches (SD one was really awesome and the Raw one was good too), a great Christian/Orton match and a solid Henry/Show big man match and it's no contest at all really. 

I had to go back and look at the match card for MITB 2010 to see what was even on the show to remember.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

It would take a lot of research but I wonder what the general opinion of the board would be on the PPV with the most stars ever? Next to an impossible task but a fun project for someone.

MitB 2011 V Extreme Rules 2012? Wow not sure which one I like more. Two of the better PPVs not only the last few years but the last five years. Maybe more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Feels like this PPV is overrated much like how Backlash '07. Just don't care too much for that show either. Another half good & half bad event.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Different strokes, I guess. MITB 2010 is probably my favorite event from that year, but I liked every single match on the MITB 2011 card, and would even go as far as to say that it's the best B-PPV of all-time. DAT CHICAGO CROWD! ER 12 and IYH: Canadian Stampede are close though.

RVD/HHH Unforgiven 2002 is a lot more fun than I remember it being. Heck, that entire PPV is much better than I remembered it. Undertaker/Lesnar is one of the best "feud advancers" ever.

Regal/Finlay from Uncensored 1996 still holds up as one of the greatest brawls in mainstream wrestling. Now THAT is a one-match show. God help us get through that main event. The street fight was terrible too, but it made me laugh so much. :lmao at that ending.

Finally reached the prestigious 11 green bar rep group, and it is all thanks to you guys. Came a long way from those dark days of getting constantly red repped and pestered by inbox messages from Rock316AE and his legion of troglodytes :jericho :rock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RVD vs Triple H didn't hold for me. But the majority of the show I enjoyed. Just nix out that super shitty Benoit vs Angle match and we're good. Good lord that's a pile of something fierce. :lmao

Regal vs Finlay :mark: Well, it's WCW. Not like they truly had a main event or events worth seeing beyond 1994 barring the once in a while gem. Too busy getting matches like Hogan vs Luger or Hogan vs anyone instead of Goldberg vs DDP type bouts.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)




----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Alim said:


>


Can we please turn this into a smiley? While we are at it, we need more :henry1 smileys. People also need to be educated on the difference between Thierry Henry and Mark :henry. 

While going through my DDP project that will take forever to finish because I do not understand how to make concise reviews, it really made me marvel at just how incredible DDP is. The man was always in shape, but he was never a great athlete, nor did he have the wrestling background of his contemporaries. But the man understood better than anyone on how to structure a match and play to the strengths of himself and his opponents. He also had chemistry with EVERYBODY and pulled off good matches with the likes of Goldberg, Nash, Hall, Hennig, Hogan, Sting, and all the other Social Security qualified wrestlers in WCW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which match vs Hennig was good? I'd like to check it out if you got a link.

Wait, think they may have had a match on Saturday Night that was actually fine. Unless that was Hennig vs Flair. So much '97 on the brain.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finished watching RVD/Brock (Vengeance 2002(, very nice match here, really enjoyed their series of matches, lol at the ref attacking Heyman, then Brock picked up the ref in the same fashion as he did in the Cena match 

Now onto a 'Singapore cane match' with Tommy Dreamer, Taker got some paybackl after the previous week, looking forward now to the build up to Summerslam 2002 with The Rock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Van Dam from Vengeance '02 rules. Always get this excited feeling watching Brock matches. Probably b/c the anticipation is so high. Dude was killing it from the start in '02.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Brock vs Van Dam from Vengeance '02 rules. Always get this excited feeling watching Brock matches. Probably b/c the anticipation is so high. Dude was killing it from the start in '02.


Yeah mate, im loving it so far. Forgot alot what happened during Brock's run, he has just been 'drafted' to SD, and he is just about to have a match with Mark Henry, after F5'ing him last week on Brock's SD debut


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Man, wonder if that's the level of radical we're all hoping it could be. Henry wasn't exactly "Henry" just yet, but fingers crossed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Man, wonder if that's the level of radical we're all hoping it could be. Henry wasn't exactly "Henry" just yet, but fingers crossed.


Been thinking that myself, in this match, Brock belly-to-belly suplexed him like he was Mysterio lol.

Brock just F5'd Hogan, looking forward to their SD match next


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*(10 - 1) My Personal Top 60 Undertaker Matches*

Part 1 (60 - 50) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...show-discussion-thread-1927.html#post21336753

Part 2 (49 - 43) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21343833-post19293.html

Part 3 (42 - 34) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21352249-post19321.html

Part 4 (33 - 24) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21373457-post19344.html

Part 5 (23 - 11) - http://www.wrestlingforum.com/21381977-post19360.html


*10. The Undertaker vs. Mankind (King Of The Ring 1996)*











*9. The Undertaker vs. Batista (Wrestlemania 23)*











*8. The Undertaker vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania 27)*











*7. The Undertaker vs. Batista (Cyber Sunday 2007)*











*6. The Undertaker vs. Edge (Summerslam 2008)*











*5. The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (No Way Out 2006)*











*4. The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (No Mercy 2002)*











*3. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 25)*











*2. The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle (Smackdown 04/09/03)*











*1A. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 26)*











*1B. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Bad Blood 1997)*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock is a flat out beast for doing such a move.

KOTR '96 vs Mankind. Hell to the yes. Great selection. Match blows me away.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings

Part 1 (280-261)

(DUD)
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9









279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011









278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005









277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012









276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995









275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011









274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011









273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006









272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994









271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013









(1/4*)
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1









269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8









268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995









267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27









266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002









265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom









264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991









263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13









262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998









(1/2*)
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009







*​


Spoiler: List so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still really like the Rock/HHH/Brock triple threat from Global Warning 2002, managed to see abit of the aftermath too, with The Rock and HHH sending the crowd home happy by dumping Lesnar out the ring, Heyman then attacked The Rock, but no more footage was shown after that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

When I did that list I was legit surprised at how many bad Main Events in PPV the WWF/E has had - especially when it comes to clashes between two great guys (Austin/Taker, Punk/Rock, Piper/Lawler in e.g.). Thankfully it can't get any worse than this bit.

@Fluze, awesome choice as 1B (Taker/HBK HIAC), though do you really enjoy Taker/Batista CS more than WM?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just rewatched Undertaker/Rey from Royal Rumble 2010, **1/2 from me, kinda meh match. I remember expecting a lot from this one back then and at the end I only liked the clean ending


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker Top 20-11:

(****)
20) Undertaker vs. Batista Survivor Series 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship Hell in a Cell)
19) Undertaker vs. Bret Hart Summerslam 1997 (WWE Championship Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels)
18) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Armageddon 2005 (Hell in a Cell)
17) Undertaker vs. CM Punk Smackdown September 10th, 2010
16) Undertaker vs. Big Show Cyber Sunday 2008 (Last Man Standing Match)
15) Undertaker vs. John Cena Smackdown June 24th, 2004
14) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin Judgement Day 2001 (WWE Championship)
(****1/4)
13) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Wrestlemania 21
12) Undertaker vs. Batista Cyber Sunday 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship)
11) Undertaker vs. Edge Wrestlemania 24 (World Heavyweight Championship)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> So I just finished HHH vs Angle from Royal Rumble. ★★★ because I found it a bit slow. Just not big on Game's control segments where he tries to be Flair and work on the leg. At least with Flair, it leads to his finisher, HHH's use of it is nothing more than a glorified resthold. Also the Trish/Stephanie stuff, while funny, took away from it. For like two minutes, they keep "fighting" as if there's not a match going on in the middle of the ring.


He applied the Indian Deathlock in that one right? Remember loving that match but haven't seen it in years. Definitely the forgotten match when it comes to Rumble '01.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually imo E&C/Dudleys is the real forgotten match about RR '01. There are still many people that immediatly remember Angle/HHH when it comes to succesful heel vs heel matches. That was typical fast paced AE-styled tag team goodness, that is REALLY lost in the shuffle.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

ATF said:


> @Fluze, awesome choice as 1B (Taker/HBK HIAC), though do you really enjoy Taker/Batista CS more than WM?


Yea, I look at their CS bout as a war with structure, while WM was more of an all out one with heavy hitting and each competitor disregarding their opponents' abilities. This match revealed that both Batista and Taker had each other read and understood like a book. Examples, being the counted spear attempt by Taker in the opening sequence, old school reversal into a spinebuster and Batista no wasting motion of arguing with Austin after the 1st Bbomb, immediately hitting Taker with the second to secure his hard-fought victory.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Yea, I look at their CS bout as a war with structure, while WM was more of an all out one with heavy hitting and each competitor disregarding their opponents' abilities. This match revealed that both Batista and Taker had each other read and understood like a book. Examples, being the counted spear attempt by Taker in the opening sequence, old school reversal into a spinebuster and Batista no wasting motion of arguing with Austin after the 1st Bbomb, immediately hitting Taker with the second to secure his hard-fought victory.


Yeah it's kinda hard to argue that the story told in the CS match was incredible.

Though the WM story was a little superior - it was similar to what you described, an all-out heavy move war. BUT, it was played out like if both were in the middle of a genius RPG battle, trying to figure out in their arsenal what was there that could possibly weak their opponent the most in one move. They went into battlefield, and wouldn't comeback until one of them died, even if they had to die trying. An awesome, awesome battle that was.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Yeah, you can't really go wrong with either. Both top tier matches for 2007.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just onto Brock/Rikishi on SD:










A week after destroying Hogan


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Zep, will you check out the match Bork had against Edge at Rebellion 02? Do it, cause it's pretty nice.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Zep, will you check out the match Bork had against Edge at Rebellion 02? Do it, cause it's pretty nice.


Yeah mate, going through the history of Brock in WWE (02-04), nearly onto Summerslam 2002 atm, really looking forward to that, always loved the Rock match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxc672_wwf-raw-12-09-1996_sport?from_related_right#.UexXhm3wCXQ

Zeb Coulter at 17:22 :


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Undertaker Top 10:

(****1/4)
10) Undertaker vs. Rock vs. Kurt Angle Vengeance 2002 (WWE Undisputed Championship)
(****1/2)
9) Undertaker vs. Edge Summerslam 2008 (Hell in a Cell)
8) Undertaker vs. Batista Wrestlemania 23 (World Heavyweight Championship)
7) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 26 (Career Threatening Match for HBK)
(****3/4)
6) Undertaker vs. CM Punk Wrestlemania 29
5) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle Smackdown September 4th 2003 (WWE Championship)
4) Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (WWE Championship Hell in a Cell)
3) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle No Way Out 2006 (World Heavyweight Championship)
2) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels BB 1997 (Hell in a Cell)
(*****)
1) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 25



Spoiler: Whole List



(***1/4)
60) Undertaker vs. Edge Judgement Day 2008 (World Heavyweight Championship)
(***1/2)
59) Undertaker vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. MVP vs. The Great Khali vs. Big Daddy V No Way Out 2008 (Elimination Chamber)
58) Undertaker vs. Triple H Wrestlemania 27 (No Holds Barred)
57) Undertaker vs. Rey Mysterio Royal Rumble 2010 (World Heavyweight Championship)
56) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin Summerslam 1998 (WWE Championship)
55) Undertaker vs. Big Show ECW July 18th, 2006 (ECW Championship)
54) Undertaker vs. JBL No Mercy 2004 (WWE Championship Last Ride Match)
53) Undertaker and Kane vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H Backlash 2001 (WWE Championship, Intercontinental Championship and WWE Tag Team Championships all on the line)
52) Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar No Mercy 2003 (WWE Championship Biker Chain Match)
51) Undertaker vs. Edge vs. Batista Armageddon 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship)
50) Undertaker vs. Heidenreich Survivor Series 2004
49) Undertaker vs. Rock No Way Out 2002
48) Undertaker vs. Kane Smackdown April 4th, 2008
47) Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy No Mercy 2006
(***3/4)
46) Undertaker vs. RVD Vengeance 2001 (WWE Hardcore Championship)
45) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle July 4th, 2002 (WWE Undisputed Championship)
44) Undertaker vs. Randy and Bob Orton No Mercy 2005 (Casket Match)
43) Undertaker vs. Edge Backlash 2008 (World Heavyweight Championship)
42) Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T vs. JBL Armageddon 2004 (WWE Championship)
41) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Summerslam 2005
40) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi Armageddon 2000 (WWE Championship Hell in a Cell)
39) Undertaker vs. Edge vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H vs. Big Show vs. Vladimir Koslov No Way Out 2009 (WWE Championship Elimination Chamber)
38) Undertaker vs. Chris Jericho vs. John Morrison vs. CM Punk vs. R-Truth vs. Rey Mysterio Elimination Chamber 2010 (World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber)
37) Undertaker vs. Big Show No Mercy 2008
36) Undertaker vs. Triple H Wrestlemania 17
35) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Royal Rumble 1998 (WWE Championship Casket Match)
34) Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy Raw July 1st, 2002 (WWE Undisputed Championship Ladder Match)
33) Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar Unforgiven 2002 (WWE Championship)
32) Undertaker vs. John Cena Vengeance 2003
31) Undertaker vs. Finlay Smackdown March 9th, 2007
30) Undertaker vs. Batista Backlash 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship Last Man Standing)
(****)
29) Undertaker, Rock, Chris Jericho, Kane, and Big Show vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam, Booker T, and Shane McMahon Survivor Series 2001
28) Undertaker and Batista vs. John Cena and Shawn Michaels No Way Out 2007
27) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Smackdown September 16th, 2005
26) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin Fully Loaded 1999 (WWE Championship First Blood Match)
25) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle Smackdown March 3rd, 2006 (World Heavyweight Championship)
24) Undertaker vs. Mankind King of the Ring 1998 (Hell in a Cell)
23) Undertaker vs. Ric Flair Wrestlemania 18
22) Undertaker vs. Triple H Wrestlemania 28 (Hell in a Cell Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels)
21) Undertaker vs. Kane Wrestlemania 14
20) Undertaker vs. Batista Survivor Series 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship Hell in a Cell)
19) Undertaker vs. Bret Hart Summerslam 1997 (WWE Championship Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels)
18) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Armageddon 2005 (Hell in a Cell)
17) Undertaker vs. CM Punk Smackdown September 10th, 2010
16) Undertaker vs. Big Show Cyber Sunday 2008 (Last Man Standing Match)
15) Undertaker vs. John Cena Smackdown June 24th, 2004
14) Undertaker vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin Judgement Day 2001 (WWE Championship)
(****1/4)
13) Undertaker vs. Randy Orton Wrestlemania 21
12) Undertaker vs. Batista Cyber Sunday 2007 (World Heavyweight Championship)
11) Undertaker vs. Edge Wrestlemania 24 (World Heavyweight Championship)
10) Undertaker vs. Rock vs. Kurt Angle Vengeance 2002 (WWE Undisputed Championship)
(****1/2)
9) Undertaker vs. Edge Summerslam 2008 (Hell in a Cell)
8) Undertaker vs. Batista Wrestlemania 23 (World Heavyweight Championship)
7) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 26 (Career Threatening Match for HBK)
(****3/4)
6) Undertaker vs. CM Punk Wrestlemania 29
5) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle Smackdown September 4th 2003 (WWE Championship)
4) Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (WWE Championship Hell in a Cell)
3) Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle No Way Out 2006 (World Heavyweight Championship)
2) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels BB 1997 (Hell in a Cell)
(*****)
1) Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels Wrestlemania 25


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Good list fluze, taker/angle sd better than hbk/taker wm25 ? :hbk2


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Good list fluze, taker/angle sd better than hbk/taker wm25 ? :hbk2


I've only watched HBK-Taker WM25 twice since air, simply because of how large live viewing factors into rating it specifically. I feel it may go down in rating, If I wind up another watch. Aside from that, Taker-Angle SD is unlimited in replay value. I can watch it over and over again, and still be amazed by the extremely impressive mat work and chain wrestling by both competitors in the beginning, awesome transitioning into another style, a real competitive tone, counter galore of a finishing stretch and a non-discrediting DQ finish, which I found marginally better than a clean/regular one, made sense too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

understandable, I have hbk/taker 25 as top 3 in company history so I agree to disagree

I would also like to know what Hening match you were ? Since I have the dvd on netflix, Im going to do a top 10 streak matches and dust of the old stars.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> understandable, I have hbk/taker 25 as top 3 in company history so I agree to disagree
> 
> *I would also like to know what Hening match you were ?* Since I have the dvd on netflix, Im going to do a top 10 streak matches and dust of the old stars.


What do you mean?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fluze said:


> What do you mean?


It may of havent been you, weren't to bed early yesterday and scan the last couple of pages quickly, I saw a ddp project and someone mentioned hening


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

The GOAT TV match. :mark:. Its power compels you. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsnro3_wwe-smackdown-2003-09-04-kurt-angle-vs-undertaker_sport


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

It's Hennig not Henning










Pet peeve


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I totally forgot Cena V R Truth main evented a PPV 2 years ago. Thats pretty shittastic.

As amazing as the Mania matches between Taker and HBK are and I love them (especially 25) I think my favorite Taker match is vs Angle at NWO in 2006. One of the best matches I've ever seen. I'll go the full ***** on that one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I totally forgot Cena V R Truth main evented a PPV 2 years ago. Thats pretty shittastic.


And it headlined Capitol Punishment, how apropiate of a name.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Ranking*

Part 1

*Part 2 (260-241)*

*(1/2*)
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004









259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks









258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000









257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010









256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day









255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997









254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11









(3/4*)
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003









252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002









251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989









250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown









249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006









248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006









(*)
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989









246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010









245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002









244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999









243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991









(*1/4)
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003









241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013







*​


Spoiler: List so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Don't you say a bad word about Deebo! 

Zeus for Hall of Fame in 2014!!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*ATF*, are you ranking every single PPV main event? That's some job. I'm going to try and watch a couple of Summerslam's over the next week while I have some time, see if I can throw together a list of sorts. I always start out with the best intentions and then nothing comes of it. Maybe this time something will come to fruition. 

Taker vs. HBK, Mania 25 - ******* (And arguably the GOAT WWE match ever.)
Taker vs. Angle, NWO 06 - *****3/4*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Don't you say a bad word about Deebo!
> 
> *Zeus for Hall of Fame in 2014!!*


Fuck yeah, he was the greatest ever!!



Starbuck said:


> *ATF*, are you ranking every single PPV main event? That's some job. I'm going to try and watch a couple of Summerslam's over the next week while I have some time, see if I can throw together a list of sorts. I always start out with the best intentions and then nothing comes of it. Maybe this time something will come to fruition.
> 
> Taker vs. HBK, Mania 25 - ******* (And arguably the GOAT WWE match ever.)
> Taker vs. Angle, NWO 06 - *****3/4*


Yup, yes I am. It's for the sake of continuity, since I have a lot of time to kill.

Oh, and Bret/Austin is imo the GOAT WWE match ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rare match i found:

*Scott Hall & Punisher Dice Morgan (Undertaker) vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Masa Saito [19th March 1990] NJPW (New Japan Pro Wrestling) *


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ATF said:


> Fuck yeah, he was the greatest ever!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More power to you. I wish I had the time but I'm working a lot these days. Got a few days off next week though and I have no money until pay day so staying in is my only option at the minute. Gives me time for some wrasslin I guess.

I don't know what I'd put as the GOAT WWE match ever. There's a handful of them in the discussion. What one you pick all comes down to personal preference in the end.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/HBK WM25 would be the GOAT match for me, followed by Bret/Austin WM13 at number 2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm up until the start of the Brock/Taker feud, just watched the sit down interview promo with Stephanie/Heyman/Brock/Taker, really looking forward to the build to Unforgiven, and of course the match, which i havn't watched in years.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Some undertaking with every PPV match. I guess I was kinder on the Trips/Goldberg matches (neither were over **1/4 though), but to each his own. 

Funny to look back on some of those matches and go, WTF. Especially LT and Bam Bam headlining a FUCKING WRESTLEMANIA. Oh well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Rare match i found:
> 
> *Scott Hall & Punisher Dice Morgan (Undertaker) vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Masa Saito [19th March 1990] NJPW (New Japan Pro Wrestling) *


Essentially Undertaker vs Hashimoto - HOLY SHIT

:mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Goldberg/HHH PPV matches are terrible, specially Survivor Series.

I've just plugged my computer to to a HDMI and man, it's awesome to see all these classics on a huge television monitor. Watched Cena/HBK one hour match, MITB I and Eddie/JBL from Judgment Day. Don't know what I should go for next.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nearly at the Brock/Taker Unforgiven match, week before the PPV, Brock beat the 'rookie' John Cena  Taker is pissed at Brock/Heyman due to the personal involvment of Taker's wife Sarah, instigated by Heyman.

Taker/Brock brawl on the go home show, till Matt Hardy interfered lol, the week before, Taker/Hardy had a SD match, which Taker hit snake eyes, maybe the first instances i saw.

Great build up.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> Goldberg/HHH PPV matches are terrible, specially Survivor Series.
> 
> *I've just plugged my computer to to a HDMI and man, it's awesome to see all these classics on a huge television monitor.* Watched Cena/HBK one hour match, MITB I and Eddie/JBL from Judgment Day. Don't know what I should go for next.


The wave of the future. 

I've had a 32" hooked up to my PC as a second monitor for a few years now. It makes streaming PPVs far too enjoyable. If it wasn't for big shows, blu-rays, and live events, I'd probably never give WWE another cent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Think I might be the only guy in the thread who has a big collection of WWE PPVs _(ok, not really, but it feels like it)_ and not just sets with various matches. I see a sale or want a show badly enough, I buy it. Doesn't matter if there is one or two matches I could have lived without. Prefer having the full show over only one one or two matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Brock (Unforgiven 2002) ****1/4 Cole " We need the National Guard" 

Yeah alot of people hate the finish, and if im honest i would have preferred a clean finish, as i wanted the match to continue, but this is an excellent match IMO, great last ride to Matt Hardy for the measure too lol, 2 ref bumps, but overall it was a great even matchup, meshed so well. 

Taker throwing Brock through the Unforgiven sign :ex:

Looking forward to the rest of the Taker feud now, and of course the HIAC match.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I used to have a big collection of PPVs on DVD, but once I moved towards Blu-ray, I sold most of them. A choice that I still regret, but I'm not starting _that_ collection again. I'll buy the odd PPV on BR, but it's a little too pricey so I tend to stick with compilations (or sales).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Blu-Ray's picture is nice to look at and all that jazz, but the selection is far too minimal and too recent for myself to only care about that one outlet. I'll stick by picking up either formats. Until DVD is obsolete, I'll be owning PPVs via the technology.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

There's a lot of crappy Undertaker and Hogan main events in the lower end of that list.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wait, nevermind, it's not just WWE Championship matches.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> Think I might be the only guy in the thread who has a big collection of WWE PPVs _(ok, not really, but it feels like it)_ and not just sets with various matches. I see a sale or want a show badly enough, I buy it. Doesn't matter if there is one or two matches I could have lived without. Prefer having the full show over only one one or two matches.


Fully agreed which is why since 1998 I am only missing 8 ppv's. I legit own the vast majority as well through dvd or vhs. I have every event on dvd since 2003 up through Elimination Chamber 2013 except 3 from 2010. I have every 2001 ppv on vhs as well. I have a long going project to rate everyone of them. Needless to say it's taking awhile.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ damn how much does it cost you guys ? and another thing is there really is no stores that sell wwe stuff besides wal-mart

Started the STREAK thing with wm 21 orton and wn 12 nash, really dont want to watch hunter 1 but I gotss to


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was on that path, still actually am, although minus the whole star ratings bit. Only ranking via opinion, which is no different. It does take a good while. Worth it for some fun. Truth be told, only way it seems to take up so much time is when you are in the mood for something other than a WWE PPV. Which hits me all the time. Wrestling OCD to the max.

Money has never been too bad as I generally look for a lot of sales whenever I buy. Think the most I ever spent on a show was about $25 just to own the deluxe edition of WrestleMania 26. btw, hit up KMart. That's the goldmine for WWE DVDs. It's current, per usual, but it has a MUCH wider selection than Wal-Mart. Not to mention hitting up random electronic stores that sell DVDs can always have wrestling lying around. At the very least some WWE. TNA or elsewhere is rarer, but WWE is generally no problem. I'm usually always looking, though.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Think I might be the only guy in the thread who has a big collection of WWE PPVs _(ok, not really, but it feels like it)_ and not just sets with various matches. I see a sale or want a show badly enough, I buy it. Doesn't matter if there is one or two matches I could have lived without. Prefer having the full show over only one one or two matches.


I have every DVD and bluray that Silvervision sold though I only have a few of the WWF ones.

When SV lost the WWE licence I bought up £100s worth of DVDs, even shitty ones like Rock v Cena. The prices were way too good to pass up and them Tagged Classics will be as rare as the WWF DVDs as I can't see WWE re-releasing them, certainly not unedited.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Finished rewatching Bret/Bulldog from IYH V. Still holds up as one of the greatest title matches in company history. DAT BRET BLADEJOB. Also cool to know that Bret learned the Mahistrol Cradle from a young Jericho. Lawler was freakin hilarious on commentary. :lmao at him pulling a Ziggler/Sheamus NWO 2012 here. Cornette was also really funny. "Get out of my face" :lol

Taker/Mankind KOTR 96 IS AWESOME! That ending was as shocking as it gets.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

a thought popped in my head right now

*TOP FACES*
CENA
PUNK
ORTON
BRYAN
SHEAMUS
CHRISTAN
JERCHIO
ZIGGLER
CODY
MIZ

RVD now and probaly HENRY from the looks of monday

*TOP HEELS*
DEL RIO ? is he really top heel material
SANDOW
AMBROSE
Shield 
CESARO
SWAGGER
I would say BROCK is the top heel but he only has limited appearances, look how lopsided the wwe atm way to many faces


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

EXACTLY why Orton needs to turn!!



redskins25 said:


> a thought popped in my head right now
> 
> *TOP FACES*
> CENA
> ...


I bought Wrestlemania 22 and Batista: I Walk Alone for $5 each today at the used store where I live. Good scores!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You forgot Ryback as a heel. He's well above a lot you mentioned too considering he was in WWE Championship territory.

Wyatt Family is already looking to be in the mix of top heels. And if Miz counts as a top face, then Axel is a top heel. b/c Axel is already higher than Miz at this current point. The sides a lot more even right now with the recent face turns of Dolph, Rhodes, & apparently Henry. Before the faces were minimal & not to mention VERY unlikable for the crew you're supposed to want to cheer for. All you had was Cena, Danielson, & Sheamus before. Jericho returned, four heels turned face, & things are looking to be on an even keel.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

No Axel on the top heels list either. With Heyman as a mouth piece he could get there.

It's only a matter of time before Ambrose and Sandow are the two top heels in the company (unless Orton turns) and feud with the likes of Cena, Punk, Bryan, Dolph, etc. Sandow looks like he will get the "I'm better than you" heel title run that Dolph should have got in 2012. 

A feud between Punk and Ambrose just sounds lovely. 

Cesaro needs a big push as well. Barrett could be a top heel if he was a little edgier. Bring Regal back as a douchey manager for him? 

Bray Wyatt will get there but it will be a bit. 

ADR bores me and he keeps injuring people so yeah there is that. He should go to the DR about his circulation. I don't know why he wears scarves indoors? Oh well.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

*In Your House: It's time 1996 star ratings:*

Rocky Maivia vs Salvatore Sincere = *1/2

Flash Funk vs Leif Cassidy (Al Snow) = ***1/2 (Lots of highflying moves in this one, pretty fun match)

Tag team match: Owen Hart and British Bulldog vs 'Razor Ramon' and 'Diesel' (AKA Glen Jacobs :kane) = **1/4. Why did they have a fake Ramon and Diesel?

The segment after this match involves Ahmed Johnson and the Nation of Domination (a group that Johnson will later join and then feud with again lol). Ahmed's starts the chant "You're going down!" reminded me of Daniel Bryan's YES! chants for some reason but it's not as bad as Johnson's mic work lol.

Marc Mero vs HHH = **3/4. The ending was weird because you had Goldust attacking both men (although he attacked Mero only because HHH ducked) but Mero gets back up and wins the match by countout. 

Undertaker vs Executioner = ***. This was an enjoyable match that was good for what it was (just went on for over 10 minutes) which included brawling in the 'houses', Mankind coming down and being escorted to the back and being forced to wear a strait jacket was hilarious :lol. Technically a Last Man Standing match but I guess they called it Armageddon Rules for this PPV. Rating may be high but hey, it wasn't too bad of a match 

Sid vs Bret Hart = **1/2. Quite surprised to see that Bret control the match at the beginning and Sid only gains big momentum after Austin interfered. Liked the ending though with HBK accidently helping out Sid (who he was also feuding with at the time because Sid attacked an old man at the previous PPV). 

All in all, not great but not too bad of a PPV. Hopefully Royal Rumble 1997 is a massive improvement on this.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

There's a lot of crappy Undertaker and Hogan main events in the lower end of that list.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fake Diesel/Ramon was just WWF's way of trying to mock Hall and Nash's defection i think.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damien Sandow could be a top heel? Nah. Not sure why, but I see him not achieving much success despite what he currently holds.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HayleySabin said:


> Damien Sandow a top heel. Nah.


SILENCE!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I knew I was missing someone but tbh, my take on ryback is the same as del rio

Wyatt does have potential but its to early and he on been on TV twice, I know its 2013 and heel/face dont really matter anymore and who ever can put a good match on is fine, but IMO orton and Christian NEED to turn, and tbh the christian more so, there is liertally nothing left for him as a face, nobdy in the crowds care anymore, time for late 2011 Christan again


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Damien Sandow could be a top heel? Nah. Not sure why, but I see him not achieving much success despite what he currently holds.


I love Sandow's gimmick. A douche who thinks he is better than everyone is timeless (Flair, DiBiase, Perfect, Rude, HBK, HHH, Orton, Jericho, etc). Hell even Miz makes a good heel. He makes a great jerk.

My girlfriend haaaaaates Sandow. She is a face lover (Cena, HHH, Orton, Sheamus) though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Fake Diesel/Ramon was just WWF's way of trying to mock Hall and Nash's defection i think.


 I thought so :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bit like the Nacho Man and The Huckster, bit ironic on WWF's part really.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian going heel. Eh. Guy is WAY more suited as a babyface. If fans don't care much, that's WWE fault for booking him like a chump. When he was relevant he was over. Shouldn't have gone heel in 2011 to begin with.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Christian going heel. Eh. Guy is WAY more suited as a babyface. If fans don't care much, that's WWE fault for booking him like a chump. When he was relevant he was over. Shouldn't have gone heel in 2011 to begin with.


Agreed. 

Forgive me cuz I don't listen to them but is that the chick from Paramore in your sig?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ damn how much does it cost you guys ? and another thing is there really is no stores that sell wwe stuff besides wal-mart
> 
> Started the STREAK thing with wm 21 orton and wn 12 nash, really dont want to watch hunter 1 but I gotss to


I started getting them in 1999 so it hadn't been that bad over time. I stooped due a few years between 07-10 but even when I started catching up I got a lot of them for under $10. I got all of 2008 for $80. Once you are caught up it's just about $15 or $16 a month. I get a free sets here and there but not a lot. I even got a lot of those for cheap as well.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

In Your House 12 was show on Sky1 on Boxing Day presented by Dok Hendrix trying to figure out why it was called Boxing Day. It featured him in a box I believe.

Royal Rumble is worth from what I can remember. HHH v Goldust, Ahmed v NOD, Vader v Taker were all a bit sucky. The Rumble got fun once Austin came in and HBK v Sid wasn't as good as the Survivor Series match. I'm open to correction as I haven't watched it in years. I think there was a six man tag with AAA wrestlers in the Free for All that probably should've been on the main show.

The fake Diesel and Razor was a little more than Vince poking fun at WCW. When Hall and Nash showed up in WCW the WWF sued them for copyright infringement as the angle was played off as if two WWF wrestlers were invading WCW for real (well as real as you can get in wrestling). WWF alledged that they portrayed characters that Vince and co. owned. Hall in particularly used his fake Cuban accent, toothpick etc. So the WWF's response (along with the lawsuit) was to dress up two guys as Diesel and Razor and have them use the same moveset Hall and Nash had used. 

It had a few unintended consequences: Bischoff thought that Hall and Nash might jump back to WWF as the Diesel and Razor 'return' was hyped for a few weeks so Eric added more money and the infamous 'favoured nations' clause to their contracts. Jim Cornnette also tells a funny story of watching a half dozen Nash matches to teach Glen Jacobs his moveset and Nash had a grand total of 6 moves including slicking his hair back.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Forever Unchained said:


> In Your House 12 was show on Sky1 on Boxing Day presented by Dok Hendrix trying to figure out why it was called Boxing Day. It featured him in a box I believe.



What the shit is a boxing day? Is that where you all fight each other? 

:bruce3 #Merica


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watching Hunter Heart Helmsey in these old RAW episodes, I can say that he reminds me a lot of Damien Sandow. Of course Sandow plays the gimmick much better.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Watching Hunter Heart Helmsey in these old RAW episodes, I can say that he reminds me a lot of Damien Sandow. Of course Sandow plays the gimmick much better.


Hammer meet nail. Sandow will be a top heel the rest of this decade if they don't mess it up.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Boxing Day is a public holiday usually the day after Christmas Day. It's like a sequel to Christmas Day. The name I think has something to do with some King giving gifts in boxes way back when. It's Stephen's Day in Ireland.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Forever Unchained said:


> Boxing Day is a public holiday usually the day after Christmas Day. It's like a sequel to Christmas Day. The name I think has something to do with some King giving gifts in boxes way back when. It's Stephen's Day in Ireland.


I know. I was making fun of stupid Americans. My sarcasm doesn't show on the interwebs very well. :|


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm English and I have no idea why Boxing Day is called Boxing Day. I just know it as the day where I try and watch as many of the DVD's that I got the day before as possible .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Because all the kids play in the boxes from their presents the day before? That's what my family always though because that's what all the kids in my family used to do lol.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> I'm English and I have no idea why Boxing Day is called Boxing Day. I just know it as the day where I try and watch as many of the DVD's that I got the day before as possible .


Like Lennox Lewis DVDs? 

I'm confused. 

#MoreSarcasm


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Raw 12/23/2002 - WWE World Tag Team Championship: Chris Jericho & Christian vs. Goldust & Booker T*

This was beautiful, and shockingly I've never seen this match before. All four guys were on and they realized this was their opportunity to make up for the busted rope incident from No Mercy. The early portion of the match saw a lot of really good back-and-forth action but the champs would, get the better of the exchanges and Christian and Jericho were bumping machines for everything. Goldust's has his best performance to date here as both face in peril and hot tag. At one point Goldust takes Jericho into the corner and gets the 10 Punch, but Christian pushes him away and Jericho hits a dropkick from the top and they begin to take over with the formula that works. Cut-off the tags and cutting the ring in half, using any advantage and cheap tactic to stay in control. Goldust eventually fights out of the corner and hit a neckbreaker and gets the Hot-tag to Booker who sidekicks Jericho and backdrops Christian. Spinebuster to Christian for a two count chops by Booker, but Jericho clubs him down from behind. Christian & Jericho then go for the double-team, but Booker fights out and smashes their heads into each other, then hits a double jumping calf kick. Goldust takes Jericho out of the ring as Booker hits a Spinaroonie and the scissors kick on Christian for three count, but Christian had his foot on the ropes. So the ref restarts the match. AWESOME! False-finish and Booker argues the refs call as we go to break. Jericho in control of Booker when we return Jericho punches away, but Booker explodes with a spinning heel kick. Tag to Goldust, but the ref was distracted, so he forces Goldust from the ring, allowing Christian and Jericho to beat down on Booker. AWESOME! They continue to beat on Booker for a couple of minutes Booker charges and hits elbow but comes right back with a flapjack which leads to Goldust getting the hot-tag and that rules, and the match begins to breakdown with all 4 men just going at it. The match would eventually end when Goldust sets Jericho for the Curtain Call, but Jericho flips over and applies the Walls of Jericho. Goldust crawls towards the ropes, but Jericho pulls him back to the center. But Booker makes the save before Goldust can tap and kicks Jericho in the head. He then hits Jericho with a Jumping calf kick and tosses Christian from the ring, but then Jericho tosses him out of the ring. Jericho rolls up Goldust with his feet on the ropes but that only gets a two and he then Bulldogs Goldust but the Lionsault misses and Goldust rolls him up with the tights for the win. PURE SEX!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Taker vs. HBK, Mania 25 - ******* (And arguably the GOAT WWE match ever.)


Just got a red rep for that ^^^^. Oh this place....

:HHH2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ lolwherefrom? :lol



Duke Silver said:


> The wave of the future.
> 
> I've had a 32" hooked up to my PC as a second monitor for a few years now. It makes streaming PPVs far too enjoyable. If it wasn't for big shows, blu-rays, and live events, I'd probably never give WWE another cent.


Yeah, been considering doing it for SummerSlam. Problem is, at 2-5 AM, I can't really enjoy it as much since the volume has to be kept down.

Anyways, I went through 4 or so other matches before I was done:

Angle vs Rock vs Taker - Vengeance - ★★★★¾ (Second greatest triple threat after WM20)
Orton vs Foley - Backlash - ★★★★¾ (Fuck, this never gets old! It might enter 5 star territory one of these days.)
Benoit vs HBK - Raw 5 May 04 - ★★★★
Benoit vs Lesnar - Smackdown 4 Dec 03 - ★★★★½ (Even more awesome on TV. Color was even better as I paid attention to some details. On my computer screen, Benoit's tights come across orangish red but on TV, it's clear red.)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> (Even more awesome on TV. Color was even better as I paid attention to some details. On my computer screen, Benoit's tights come across orangish red but on TV, it's clear red.)


Glad I'm not the only one that thinks red tights make a better match than orange-red.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Just got a red rep for that ^^^^. Oh this place....
> 
> :HHH2


Deservedly so :side:. Taker and HBK alone had 2 better WWE matches than that one .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Callamus said:


> Deservedly so :side:. Taker and HBK alone had 2 better WWE matches than that one .


SILENCE!

... okay I'm gonna stop doing that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't know how anyone can think WM26 was better than WM25. I rewatched the former just a few days ago and found it to be not much more than a superior version of HHH/Taker from WM27. Lots of finishers exchanged plus some leg work by HBK, but nothing to put it over that awesome XXV match.



The Sandrone said:


> Glad I'm not the only one that thinks red tights make a better match than orange-red.


lol, that's just the biggest difference I found with this new experiment so that's the only thing I mentioned, specially since I watched the match just a week or so ago.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Some person I've never heard of. Quoted what I said and put Nah... after it :lol.

25 > most things in the world. I saw that shit live. 

dat :hbk descending from da heavens

dat :taker ascending from da hells

GOAT stuff.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

tbh there both pretty much even 26=25 for different reasons,:lmao "nah" some guy red rep me for saying Cesaro was a great wrestler lol 

Yea, 25=26 I actually use to think 26))))))))25 but on the last rewatch their both ***** and thats not even their best match respectfully, let alone TOGETHER


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'll be pissed off if Christian turns heel. I was fed up with heel Christian only a couple of months after he tuned in 2011 (after being super excited) and it really doesn't feel like he's meant to be the villain (any more, I guess). He's had a swing of good shit recently with Bryan, Sandow and the like so it looks like he might finally be getting back into the swing of things. 



Cleavage said:


> *WWE Raw 12/23/2002 - WWE World Tag Team Championship: Chris Jericho & Christian vs. Goldust & Booker T*


I was trying to remember which I thought the best match was in this awesome, awesome series of matches and I'm positive it's this. If I made the effort to list tag teams matches in WWE ever this'd do really well.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Kurt Angle (c) vs. Chris Benoit for the WWE Championship - Royal Rumble 2003: ******

Amazing match. Prior to the match, Team Angle (Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas) are ejected from ringside so Benoit vs. Angle could purely be a one-on-one match. The match starts off with both of them exchanging technical wrestling holds and escalates to a good ol' , hold for hold wrestling match. Great back and forth action from exchanging German Suplexes, going hold for hold, and doing each others respective submission holds and reversing them which makes it fun to watch for me. Crazy moments like Benoit flipping Angle with a German Suplex or Angle doing a running belly to belly suplex from the top rope makes this match really exciting to watch and the crowd was really into it. I really enjoyed the ending when Angle got the Angle lock applied and whenever Benoit tried to reverse or escape, Angle relentlessly held on to the hold, with the match ending with Angle hooking Benoit's leg while applying the Angle lock, forcing Benoit to have no choice but to tap out. After the match, Benoit receives a well deserved standing ovation for his performance, which remains to be one of my fondest memories of his career. Overall, amazing match and in my opinion, the best of their encounters.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I used to think 26 > 25 too but on recent watches 26 dropped for me. It's funny. That's the only Mania I've ever been ringside for, I was literally so close I could hear poor Vince screaming after all those chair shots, legit screaming, yet it's the one I remember least about. Despite that I thought the match was just the best thing ever and better than 25 but like I said, I watched it again a few times this year and for whatever reason it just isn't clicking with me. Meanwhile 25 just gets better and better every time I watch it and I have a strong recollection of the actual live event itself. 26 is very hard to recall. I find that odd. I'm rambling now so I'll stop....

25 > 26 .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> I used to think 26 > 25 too but on recent watches 26 dropped for me. It's funny. That's the only Mania I've ever been ringside for, I was literally so close I could hear poor Vince screaming after all those chair shots, legit screaming, yet it's the one I remember least about. Despite that I thought the match was just the best thing ever and better than 25 but like I said, I watched it again a few times this year and for whatever reason it just isn't clicking with me. Meanwhile 25 just gets better and better every time I watch it and I have a strong recollection of the actual live event itself. 26 is very hard to recall. I find that odd. I'm rambling now so I'll stop....
> 
> 25 > 26 .


Starbuck, you're right, leave it at that. You don't need to explain yourselves to those ignoramuses.

God damn! I said I'd stop with that Sandow-gimmick posting nonsense... I'm sorry, I'll stop. 

Wait, did I say Starbuck was right?

Well anyway, back to STARZ!

Benoit/Angle RR 03- ****3/4. Used to be the GOAT match for me but it's lowered to the abysmal number 5 spot.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Yeah1993 said:


> I was trying to remember which I thought the best match was in this awesome, awesome series of matches and I'm positive it's this. If I made the effort to list tag teams matches in WWE ever this'd do really well.


I've got it number 2 as the 2nd best tag match of 2002, right behind Smackdown 08/01/2002 - Edge and The Rock vs. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Sandrone said:


> Wait, did I say Starbuck was right?


:cena5


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> I used to think 26 > 25 too but on recent watches 26 dropped for me. It's funny. That's the only Mania I've ever been ringside for, I was literally so close I could hear poor Vince screaming after all those chair shots, legit screaming, yet it's the one I remember least about. Despite that I thought the match was just the best thing ever and better than 25 but like I said, I watched it again a few times this year and for whatever reason it just isn't clicking with me. Meanwhile 25 just gets better and better every time I watch it and I have a strong recollection of the actual live event itself. 26 is very hard to recall. I find that odd. I'm rambling now so I'll stop....
> 
> 25 > 26 .


I'm on the same boat as you. When I first watched the WM 26 encounter, I thought that it was better than their WM 25 encounter considering the build up was amazing and that I felt it was more fast paced. Now that I watched both of them a couple more times, I consider the WM 25 to be superior as I felt that the suspense and drama was better with me genuinely thinking that Shawn could pull off the impossible, rather than their WM 26 match where I knew Shawn was going to lose no matter the suspense and drama they put into the match. Maybe it's the cameraman almost being killed that made the WM 25 match better lol

Side note:





GOAT video package :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think 25 told a better story imo

26 had better wrestling and better finish


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

25 did everything better.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Ordered Extreme Rules 12, John Cena: Word Life & The John Morrison experience for just under £9, going to have a lot of fun watching through these when they arrive.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That video package >>>>

I was at the Raw after Mania for HBK's retirement and convinced myself that he wasn't actually going to retire. How stupid of me. Then he started to give his speech and I felt like an idiot. It was all good though. Had some dude 2 rows down chanting YOU SCREWED BRET all. night. long. His exchanges with the casuals were fun.

EDIT - Hell yeah all the 25 marks showing up now. I hope you all get the same rep too.

Nah...


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...die-chavo-cena-with-b2-promo_fun#.UextEo3VDoI

Oh that Eddie.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Loved Eddie in 2002. 

Words cant explain I happy I was that Eddie came back to the E that year. I was so sad that he was let go in late 2001 lol.

And to think that 2nd run led to his major WWE title win a few years later.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's so great that both Eddie and Chris got the moment they deserved on top of the mountain. One that will never be forgotten despite WWE's best efforts. Only wish that Malenko's WWE run had lasted longer.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> It's so great that both Eddie and Chris got the moment they deserved on top of the mountain. One that will never be forgotten despite WWE's best efforts. Only wish that Malenko's WWE run had lasted longer.












I remember watching Wrestlemania XX live on PPV and seeing Chris and Eddie holding both the World Heavyweight Championship and WWE Championship was truly a beautiful sight. I was only 10 years old at the time and I didn't get a full grasp of what these two went through but I couldn't help but to be happy for them since they were two of my favorite wrestlers growing up.

NEVER FORGET


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Indeed.

I still have an autograph of when I met both of them about 11 years ago in Charlotte.

Crazy piece of memorabilia to have looking back at it considering whats happened.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Eddie Guerrero was my favourite wrestler in 2003-04. It was a period where both of my favourite wrestlers, at the time, were either injured (Edge) or gone (The Rock). I loved his storyline with Tajiri where he turned against him. Then the mark out moment when Chavo returned to help Eddie win against John Cena. I also remember hating Eddie Guerrero so much in 2005 for what he did to Rey and his family. I was 10 years young. I do miss the days when I thought wrestling was real, made things a lot more fun and interesting


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh man. Growing up during the Ruthless Aggression era (I was barely in grade school by the time the Attitude Era ended), Eddie (along with Kurt Angle) was my favorite wrestler. My brother and I marked out SO hard when he beat Lesnar at No Way Out 04. Not sure if I've ever been as happy about a match since then.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

So I just finished watching 2002 and it took me longer than expected. 



Spoiler: Starz for 2002



No Mercy 2002 - Hell in a Cell Match for the WWE Championship: The Undertaker vs. Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) ****3/4
No Mercy 2002 - WWE Tag Team Championships (Tournament Finals): Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio ****3/4
SummerSlam 2002 - Unsanctioned Match: Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H ****3/4
Unforgiven 2002 - Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit ****1/2
Smackdown 08/01/2002 - Edge and The Rock vs. Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit ****1/4
Smackdown 09/26/2002 - No Disqualification Match: Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero ****1/4
Smackdown 11/07/2002 - Two out of Three falls match for the WWE Tag Team Championships: Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle vs. Edge & Rey Mysterio ****1/4
Raw 05/27/2002 - Ladder Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero ****1/4
Raw 12/23/2002 - WWE World Tag Team Championship: Chris Jericho & Christian vs. Goldust & Booker T **** - ****1/4
Armageddon 2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero ****
Unforgiven 2002 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero ****
Smackdown 05/30/2002 - Steel Cage Match: Kurt Angle vs. Edge ****
Vengeance 2002 - WWE Undisputed Championship: The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle ****
Backlash 2002 - Edge vs. Kurt Angle ****
Smackdown 10/17/2002 - Tag Team Title Tournament (Semi-Finals): Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero and Chavo Guerrero ****
SummerSlam 2002 - WWE Undisputed Champion: The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) ****
Smackdown 11/14/2002 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio ****
Judgment Day 2002 - Hair vs. Hair Match: Edge vs. Kurt Angle ***3/4
Smackdown 08/15/2002 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit ***3/4
Smackdown 10/03/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio ***3/4
Smackdown 08/22/2002 - Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit vs. The Rock and Edge ***1/2 - ***3/4
Smackdown 11/28/2002 - WWE Tag Team Championships: Los Guerrero's vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit ***1/2 - ***3/4
Smackdown 08/08/2002 - Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero vs. John Cena, Edge, and Rey Mysterio ***1/2 - ***3/4
SummerSlam 2002 - WWE Intercontinental Champion: Chris Benoit vs. Rob Van Dam ***3/4
Royal Rumble 2002 - WWF Undisputed Championship: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho ***3/4
SummerSlam 2002 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero ***1/2
Raw 07/29/2002 - WWE Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Benoit ***1/2
SummerSlam 2002 - Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio ***1/2
Survivor Series 2002 - WWE Championship: The Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) ***1/2
Smackdown 09/26/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio ***1/2
Smackdown 12/12/2002 - WWE Tag Team Championships: Los Guerrero’s vs. Chris Benoit and Billy Kidman ***1/2
Raw 07/01/2002 - Ladder Match for the WWE Undisputed Championship: The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy ***1/2
Unforgiven 2002 - WWE Championship: Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) vs. The Undertaker ***1/2
Survivor Series 2002 - Elimination Match for the WWE Tag Team Championships: Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerrero’s (Eddie Guerrero & Chavo Guerrero) ***1/2
WrestleMania 18 - The Rock vs. “Hollywood” Hulk Hogan ***1/2
Smackdown 07/25/2002 - Steel Cage Match: Chris Jericho vs. Edge ***1/2
Vengeance 2002 - WWE Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) ***1/2
Raw 07/15/2002 - Elimination Match: Jeff Hardy, Spike Dudley & Bubba Dudley vs. Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero & William Regal ***1/2
Survivor Series 2002 - Elimination Chamber Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship: Triple H (w/Ric Flair) vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho vs. Booker T vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam ***1/2
Raw 01/28/2002 – Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ***1/2
Raw 08/12/2002 - The Rock, The Undertaker, Booker T & Goldust vs. The Un-Americans & Triple H ***1/2
Smackdown 10/24/2002 - #1 Contender's Match: Edge & Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero & Chavo Guerrero ***1/2
Raw 10/07/2002 - TLC IV for the World Tag Team Championships: Kane & Hurricane vs. Rob Van Dam & Jeff Hardy vs. Bubba Ray Dudley & Spike Dudley vs. Chris Jericho & Christian ***1/2
Smackdown 09/12/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio ***1/4 - ***1/2
WrestleMania 18 - WWF Undisputed Championship: Chris Jericho (w/ Stephanie McMahon) vs. Triple H ***1/4 - ***1/2
Backlash 2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero ***1/4
Judgment Day 2002 - Intercontinental Championship: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam ***1/4
Smackdown 10/31/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Edge ***1/4
Smackdown 11/21/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero ***1/4
Smackdown 01/03/2002 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle ***1/4
Smackdown 10/24/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle ***1/4
Smackdown 10/03/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. Edge ***1/4
Vengeance 2002 - Tables match: Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero vs. Bubba Ray Dudley and Spike Dudley ***1/4
Smackdown 08/01/2002 - Rey Mysterio vs. Tajiri ***1/4
Smackdown 12/19/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (w/ Paul Heyman) ***1/4
No Mercy 2002 - WWE Cruiserweight Championship: Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) vs. Tajiri ***1/4
Backlash 2002 - Cruiserweight Championship: Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri (w/Torrie Wilson) ***1/4
Velocity 05/25/02 - Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri ***1/4
No Mercy 2002 - WWE World Tag Team Champions: Chris Jericho & Christian vs. Booker T & Goldust ***1/4
Raw 12/02/2002 - WWE World Tag Team Championship: Goldust & Booker T vs. Christian & Chris Jericho ***1/4
Smackdown 08/29/2002 - #1 Contender's Match: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle ***1/4
Armageddon 2002 - Elimination Match for the WWE World Tag Team Championships: Chris Jericho & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. Booker T & Goldust vs. William Regal & Lance Storm ***1/4
WrestleMania 18 - NoDQ: Ric Flair vs. The Undertaker ***1/4
Raw 06/03/2002 - Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Ric Flair ***1/4
Smackdown 01/03/2002 - The Rock & Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho & Test ***1/4
Raw 06/24/2002 - WWE Intercontinental Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) *** - ***1/4
Smackdown 09/19/2002 - Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle vs. Billy and Chuck *** - ***1/4
Smackdown 10/31/2002 - Rey Mysterio vs. Brock Lesnar ***
Smackdown 12/26/2002 - #1 Contender's Match: Chris Benoit vs. The Big Show (w/ Paul Heyman) ***
Raw 02/25/2002 WWF Undisputed Championship: Chris Jericho (w/ Stephanie McMahon) vs. Kurt 
Angle ***
Smackdown 08/29/2002 - Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero ***
Smackdown05/11/2002 - Chris Jericho vs. Edge ***
Smackdown 08/22/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. Billy Kidman ***
Smackdown 12/26/2002 - WWE Tag Team Championships: Edge & Billy Kidman vs. Los Guerrero's ***
WrestleMania 18 - Kurt Angle vs. Kane ***
Raw 07/01/2002 - Bubba Ray Dudley & Spike Dudley vs. Eddie Guerrero & Chris Benoit ***
Velocity 07/06/2002 - Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri ***
Smackdown 10/31/2002 - Matt Hardy vs. Tajiri ***
Raw 03/04/2002 - Rob Van Dam vs. Lance Storm ***
Raw 04/08/2002 - The Undertaker vs. Rob Van Dam ***
Raw 08/26/2002 - Unification Match: WWE Intercontinental Champion Rob Van Dam vs. WWE Hardcore Champion Tommy Dreamer ***
SummerSlam 2002 - WWE Tag Team Champions: The Un-Americans (Lance Storm and Christian) vs. Booker T and Goldust ***
Smackdown 12/05/2002 - #1 Contender's Elimination Match: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge ***
Raw 07/01/2002 - Ric Flair vs. Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) ***
Raw 10/14/2002 - WWE World Tag Team Championship: Kane & The Hurricane vs. Chris Jericho & Christian ***
No Way Out 2002 - WWF Undisputed World Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin ***
Raw 04/29/2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: Jeff Hardy vs. Eddie Guerrero ***
Raw 08/05/2002 - Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam ***
Smackdown 08/08/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. John Cena ***
Smackdown 09/05/2002 - Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge, Rikishi and The Undertaker ***
Smackdown 10/31/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero ***
Raw 02/18/2002 - #1 Contender's Match - Triple H vs. Kurt Angle ***
Raw 04/15/2002 - William Regal & Eddie Guerrero vs. Spike Dudley & Rob Van Dam ***
Raw 06/03/2002 - Eddie Guerrero & Brock Lesnar vs. Rob Van Dam & Bubba Ray Dudley ***
Smackdown 09/12/2002 - Eddie Guerrero and Chavo Guerrero vs. Edge and John Cena ***
Raw 01/21/2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: William Regal vs. Edge ***
Royal Rumble 2002 - WWF Intercontinental Championship: William Regal vs. Edge ***
King of the Ring 2002 - King of the Ring Semi-Finals: Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Jericho ***
Raw 12/09/2002 - Booker T & Goldust vs. William Regal & Lance Storm ***
Smackdown 04/25/2002 - #1 Contender's Match: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho ***
Survivor Series 2002 - 6 Man Elimination Table Tag Match: Bubba Dudley, Spike Dudley and Jeff Hardy vs. Three-Minute Warning and Rico ***
Smackdown 11/21/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Chavo Guerrero **3/4 - ***
Raw 03/04/2002 - Steel Cage Match: Kurt Angle vs. Triple H **3/4 - ***
Judgment Day 2002 - Hell in a Cell: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho **3/4 - ***
Raw 09/02/2002 - Chris Jericho & Triple H vs. Rob Van Dam & Ric Flair **3/4 - ***
Smackdown 08/15/2002 - Chavo Guerrero and Eddie Guerrero vs. Edge and Rey Mysterio **3/4
Raw 07/22/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Booker T **3/4
Smackdown 10/24/2002 - WWE Cruiserweight Championship: Jamie Noble (w/ Nidia) vs. Tajiri **3/4
Smackdown 08/29/2002 - Rey Mysterio vs. Rico **3/4
Smackdown 11/07/2002 - Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero (w/ Chavo Guerrero) **3/4
Raw 07/08/2002 - Chris Benoit (w/ Eddie Guerrero) vs. Bubba Ray Dudley (w/ Spike Dudley) **3/4
Raw 07/22/2002 - Eddie Guerrero vs. The Rock **3/4
Smackdown 11/21/2002 - Rey Mysterio vs. Jamie Noble (w/ Nidia) **3/4
Smackdown 06/20/2002 - The Undertaker vs. Kurt Angle **3/4
Smackdown 04/04/2002 - The Rock vs. Chris Jericho **3/4
Smackdown 01/24/2002 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle **3/4
King of the Ring 2002 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Ric Flair **3/4
Smackdown 07/04/2002 - WWE Undisputed Championship: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker **3/4
Smackdown 09/05/2002 - Brock Lesnar (w/Paul Heyman) vs. Randy Orton **3/4
Smackdown 09/19/2002 - Brock Lesnar (w/ Paul Heyman) vs. John Cena **3/4
Smackdown 11/21/2002 - WWE Championship: Edge vs. The Big Show (w/ Paul Heyman) **3/4
Smackdown 09/19/2002 - Matt Hardy vs. The Hurricane **3/4
Smackdown 01/03/2002 - Rob Van Dam & Edge vs. Chris Jericho & Kurt Angle **3/4
Smackdown 05/16/2002 - Triple H & Edge vs. Chris Jericho & Kurt Angle **3/4
Raw 07/29/2002 - Booker T vs. Eddie Guerrero **3/4
Smackdown 06/27/2002 - Kurt Angle vs. John Cena **3/4
Smackdown 05/09/2002 - Reverend D-Von vs. Triple H **3/4
Raw 09/09/2002 - WWE Tag Team Championship: The Un-Americans vs. Kane & Bradshaw **3/4
Vengeance 2002 - WWE Cruiserweight Championship: Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) vs. Billy Kidman **3/4
Raw 06/10/2002 - KOTR Qualifying Match: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero **3/4
Smackdown 07/18/2002 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle **3/4
Smackdown 11/14/2002 - Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle **3/4
Raw 07/29/2002 - The Rock vs. Ric Flair **3/4
Smackdown 07/11/2002 - The Undertaker and John Cena vs. Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho **3/4
Smackdown 05/02/2002 - Kurt Angle & Lance Storm vs. Edge & Val Venis **3/4
Raw 09/02/2002 - WWE World Heavyweight Championship: Ric Flair vs. Triple H **3/4
Smackdown 12/12/2002 - A-Train & The Big Show (w/Paul Heyman) vs. Edge & Kurt Angle **3/4
Raw 09/09/2002 - Triple H vs. Spike Dudley **3/4
Survivor Series 2002 - WWE Cruiserweight Championship: Billy Kidman vs. Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) **3/4
Raw 11/25/2002 WWE Women's Championship: Trish Stratus vs. Victoria **3/4
King of the Ring 2002 - Cruiserweight Championship: The Hurricane vs. Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) **1/2 - **3/4
Velocity 07/06/2002 - WWE Cruiserweight Championship: Jamie Knoble (w/ Nidia) vs. The Hurricane **1/2 - **3/4
Smackdown 05/30/2002 - The Hurricane & Billy Kidman vs. Tajiri & Chavo Guerrero **1/2 - **3/4
Smackdown 04/18/2002 - Billy Kidman & The Hurricane vs. Chavo Guerrero & Tajiri (w/ Torrie Wilson) **1/2 - **3/4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Curious as to why you put Flair/Taker where you did. I've got it at ****, and thought it was a very good match. 

I apparently need to check out that tag match from No Mercy, along with a bunch of other stuff on this list. Looks fun.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I just don't enjoy it as much as others, it had too many sloppy moments and got slow at times.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> I just don't enjoy it as much as others, it had too many sloppy moments and got slow at times.


Sounds like my sex life with my ex. :busta


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Holy shit. Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit is fucking awesome. One of the GOAT tag matches probably, at least one of the best in the Ruthless Aggression Era.

Time for an Angle/Benoit RR rewatch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Funny what a rewatch can do. Prior to today, I watched the Austin/Hart IYH RotT match once, but I felt that it was disappointing, sluggish, and very overrated. Decided to watch it again today and MY STARS have things changed. This hybrid brawl/technical style that these two employ is so damn good. Bret is a very underrated brawler, and Austin does one of his best sell jobs with his knee here. So heated and so vile. Moved up from ***3/4* all the way to *****1/4*.

The Hart Foundation/Austin-Foley-Taker flag match on RAW in 97 is so much fun. Best match of its horrible gimmick.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> 25 did everything better.


You are right....................but that fucking jumping tombstone at 26:






:|


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I never really go the big deal about that jumping piledriver. You'd see guys do that on WCW syndie shows, in New Japan juniors matches (like every single one).....it's not really mind blowing to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Onto the road to No Mercy 2002 in my Lesnar project, Brock just broke Taker's arm backstage, the HIAC match was then announced by Steph. 

Things now got more personal when Heyman/Brock bought a lady out who claimed to have an affair with Taker lol (who called him Mark in the ring), now onto a quickly announced Tajiri/Brock vs Edge/Mysterio SD tag match


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Holy shit. Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit is fucking awesome. One of the GOAT tag matches probably, at least one of the best in the Ruthless Aggression Era.
> 
> *Time for an Angle/Benoit RR rewatch.*


I swear that if I could enjoy anything, ANYTHING about that match other than it being very fun, i'd watch it everyday


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Steph just announced that Taker could wear his cast at HIAC, Heyman/Brock are furious of course, Brock backed Steph into a corner, Taker to the rescue. Heyman got a lamping and got busted open.

Onto the No Mercy 2002 HIAC now. Shit just got real


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Taker - HIAC ****3/4










Still as awesome as i remember it, brutal as fuck, don't care about Taker's 'no sell' moment, someone on here (well, the WWE Section lol) that this match was nothing more than a glorified squash from Lesnar, was it fuck, the first 1/2 was a massive Taker control segment, just the perfect match to solidify the feud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I never really go the big deal about that jumping piledriver. You'd see guys do that on WCW syndie shows, in New Japan juniors matches (like every single one).....it's not really mind blowing to me.


But it still was totally frigging glorious to see. b/c Undertaker did it. 



iwatchwrestling said:


> Holy shit. Edge/Mysterio vs Angle/Benoit is fucking awesome. One of the GOAT tag matches probably, at least one of the best in the Ruthless Aggression Era.


I have a hard time even dubbing it as good. Angle & Benoit's weardown sequences were so boring. Outside of some smooth moments here and there by Edge & Mysterio I didn't like much of it.

Edge & Mysterio had a much better match in the first round of the tournament vs Tajiri & Brock, if you ask me. 



Cleavage said:


> *WWE Raw 12/23/2002 - WWE World Tag Team Championship: Chris Jericho & Christian vs. Goldust & Booker T*
> 
> This was beautiful, and shockingly I've never seen this match before. All four guys were on and they realized this was their opportunity to make up for the busted rope incident from No Mercy. The early portion of the match saw a lot of really good back-and-forth action but the champs would, get the better of the exchanges and Christian and Jericho were bumping machines for everything. Goldust's has his best performance to date here as both face in peril and hot tag. At one point Goldust takes Jericho into the corner and gets the 10 Punch, but Christian pushes him away and Jericho hits a dropkick from the top and they begin to take over with the formula that works. Cut-off the tags and cutting the ring in half, using any advantage and cheap tactic to stay in control. Goldust eventually fights out of the corner and hit a neckbreaker and gets the Hot-tag to Booker who sidekicks Jericho and backdrops Christian. Spinebuster to Christian for a two count chops by Booker, but Jericho clubs him down from behind. Christian & Jericho then go for the double-team, but Booker fights out and smashes their heads into each other, then hits a double jumping calf kick. Goldust takes Jericho out of the ring as Booker hits a Spinaroonie and the scissors kick on Christian for three count, but Christian had his foot on the ropes. So the ref restarts the match. AWESOME! False-finish and Booker argues the refs call as we go to break. Jericho in control of Booker when we return Jericho punches away, but Booker explodes with a spinning heel kick. Tag to Goldust, but the ref was distracted, so he forces Goldust from the ring, allowing Christian and Jericho to beat down on Booker. AWESOME! They continue to beat on Booker for a couple of minutes Booker charges and hits elbow but comes right back with a flapjack which leads to Goldust getting the hot-tag and that rules, and the match begins to breakdown with all 4 men just going at it. The match would eventually end when Goldust sets Jericho for the Curtain Call, but Jericho flips over and applies the Walls of Jericho. Goldust crawls towards the ropes, but Jericho pulls him back to the center. But Booker makes the save before Goldust can tap and kicks Jericho in the head. He then hits Jericho with a Jumping calf kick and tosses Christian from the ring, but then Jericho tosses him out of the ring. Jericho rolls up Goldust with his feet on the ropes but that only gets a two and he then Bulldogs Goldust but the Lionsault misses and Goldust rolls him up with the tights for the win. PURE SEX!


:mark: :mark: :mark:

LOVE IT.



Yeah1993 said:


> I'll be pissed off if Christian turns heel. I was fed up with heel Christian only a couple of months after he tuned in 2011 (after being super excited) and it really doesn't feel like he's meant to be the villain (any more, I guess). He's had a swing of good shit recently with Bryan, Sandow and the like so it looks like he might finally be getting back into the swing of things.


Bit surprised you liked the match vs Sandow. I found it to be a big pile of bleh.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So, this has finally popped up. I've yet to watch it but apparently it's clipped in parts. No matter, we still get twenty minutes of Cesaro/Sheamus. What more could you ask for?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> But it still was totally frigging glorious to see. b/c Undertaker did it.


What if it was Chavo Guerrero or Kofi Kingston doing it with the same technique? WOULD YOU STILL FIND IT GLORIOUS, CODY? 

About Angle & Benoit/Edge & Rey, Angle's control segments were a little bleh but Benoit did everything he should've done very well actually. Didn't found his boring at all, alike pretty much every Benoit match except for most of the Angle/Benoit spotfests they both are in.

EDIT:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> What if it was Chavo Guerrero or Kofi Kingston doing it with the same technique? WOULD YOU STILL FIND IT GLORIOUS, CODY?
> 
> About Angle & Benoit/Edge & Rey, Angle's control segments were a little bleh but Benoit did everything he should've done very well actually. Didn't found his boring at all, alike pretty much every Benoit match except for most of the Angle/Benoit spotfests they both are in.


I don't dislike Chavo throughout most of his career so I'd welcome it. Heck, if Kofi did it I'd probably applaud him too. He needs SOMETHING in his game. This feels like the point of where everyone in New Japan's Junior division did or does it. It's something I need to see added into WWE's game. :side:

Eh, just so much of the No Mercy match leaves me feeling like "ugh". Never got behind that match. Always wondered what people saw that was special about it when I can name well over a ton more tag team matches in wrestling that have it trumped. It's the same reaction I have whenever I see some tag matches on the indies being put over yet they're flat out terrible. Yes, this is a slight @ Briscoe Brothers & especially American Wolves.

-----------

Cesaro vs Sheamus in Japan. Son of a...:dancingpenguin


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Rah said:


> So, this has finally popped up. I've yet to watch it but apparently it's clipped in parts. No matter, we still get twenty minutes of Cesaro/Sheamus. What more could you ask for?


:mark: same guy has a Cesaro/Jericho match up as well :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Enough of this whole Undertaker/HBK WM 25 > = < WM 26 shite anyway.

Undertaker/HBK HIAC is WORLDS above them both. And every other match in wrestling history. I doubt I'll live long enough to see anything pass it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What if I prefer Undertaker vs Foley matches over Undertaker vs Michaels?

b/c I honestly do. More fun; despite them all being great. _(well, eh on the Casket match)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Then you are obviously a complete and total cunt and I now hate your guts .

Undertaker/Foley matches (for the most part, FUCK that pile of utter shite in the boiler room) are tremendously awesome though. ROTT is one of my favourite matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AHHHHHHHH how could you hate the boiler room brawl? I can watch that semi-daily. Brush my teeth to it. That's the fun side of wrestling.

King of the Ring '96 is probably my favorite match between the two.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BRB was one of the dullest matches I've ever seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Too busy liking Hogan vs Sid from WrestleMania 8 to enjoy it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOAT WM ME.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PAPA SHANGO SHOWS UP

who needs ho's when you got voodoo


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

And of course:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Too busy *liking Hogan vs Sid from WrestleMania 8* to enjoy it.


Uh... EWWWWW. How can you enjoy that awful p.o.s.? Other than the post-match run-in, there's NADA remotely good about it.

Opinions are quite the bastards.

Cody, do you have a blog or YT channel or something?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

On the topic of Foley/'Taker, as I'm sure it involved them, can anyone help me recollect a particular scene in which Foley gets lead into a backstage room that has no lights on, only to get his leg ensnared in a bear trap. It's one of the earliest memories I have of Foley ('96? I'm sure I was around 5) and one that disgusted me as that little kid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've thought about creating a blog. But atm, no; got neither.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Foley/taker series better than taker/hbk ? Whattt! :tom2 I've heard unpopular opinions but that ones pretty high on the list :lol

I've seen the taker" list the last couple of days and have seen the foley/takers tech on it but I don't recall the RoT one them?maybe I wasn't paying attention but that one may be their best


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*New comp babes.*

*The Shield Vol. 1 (6 Discs)*
_Disc 1
The Shield Debut - Survivor Series 2012
The Shield Interview - Raw 26.11.2012
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 07.12.2012
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback - TLC Match - TLC 2012
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 28.12.2012
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - NXT Championship - NXT 02.01.2013
Seth Rollins vs Big E Langston - No DQ Match - NXT Championship - NXT 09.01.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 18.01.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - Elimination Chamber 2013

Disc 2
The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho - Raw 18.02.2013
The Shield Promo - Raw 04.03.2013
The Shield vs Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder & The Great Khali - Raw 25.03.2013
The Shield vs Sheamus, Randy Orton & Big Show - Wrestlemania 29
The Shield vs Kofi Kingston, Brodus Clay & Tensai - Main Event 10.04.2013
The Shield vs Axl Keegan, Percy Watson & Scott Dawson - NXT 10.04.2013
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - Lumberjack Match - NXT 17.04.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 19.04.2013
The Shield vs Undertaker, Kane & Daniel Bryan - Raw 22.04.2013

Disc 3
Dean Ambrose vs Undertaker - Smackdown 26.04.2013 + Promo earlier
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 29.04.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - Smackdown 03.05.2013 + Promo earlier
The Shield vs The Usos & Kofi Kingston - Raw 06.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 10.05.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Elimination Match - Raw 13.05.2013

Disc 4
Seth Rollins vs Kane - Main Event 15.05.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Smackdown 17.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Extreme Rules 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - Tornado Tag Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Extreme Rules 2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston - Raw 20.05.2013 + Promo
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 24.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Raw 27.05.2013 and Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 27.05.2013

Disc 5
Seth Rollins vs Kane and Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 31.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 31.05.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 03.06.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Smackdown 07.06.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - Raw 10.06.2013
Roman Reigns vs Randy Orton - Raw 10.06.2013 and Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 10.06.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Smackdown 14.06.2013

Disc 6 (House Show Bonus)
The Shield vs Ryback, Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 15.01.2013
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 01.02.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - WWE House Show 15.03.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton & New Age Outlaws - WWE House Show 24.04.2013
The Shield vs Sheamus, Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 24.05.2013_

*PM me for more info.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's nothing about match quality or any of that bs. It's more a matter of "what would you rather watch?" - Undertaker vs Foley all day. Collectively the only match from both series I'm not much of a fan of is Undertaker vs Shawn Casket Match. b/c truthfully, I can't remember a match where I was as emotionally invested as I was during Undertaker vs Michaels from both Mania's. Couldn't fathom Undertaker losing. And he didn't. Thankfully.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> It's nothing about match quality or any of that bs. It's more a matter of "what would you rather watch?" - Undertaker vs Foley all day. Collectively the only match from both series I'm not much of a fan of is Undertaker vs Shawn Casket Match. b/c truthfully, I can't remember a match where I was as emotionally invested as I was during Undertaker vs Michaels from both Mania's. Couldn't fathom Undertaker losing. And he didn't. Thankfully.


Me too tbh, yes of course i LOVE the Taker/HBK matches (and have said multiple times, WM25 is the GOAT match), but as an actual story feud, Taker/Mankind is awesome, and some of the matches are pretty damn great IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Absolutely. Adore the feud, dig the matches, the whole nine yards. I'd take Undertaker vs Foley stuff over a lot. Not simply just vs Shawn Michaels.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2

*Part 3 (240-221)*

*(*1/4)
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded









(*1/2)
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29









238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 25









237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990









236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006









(*3/4)
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage









234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994









(**)
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011









232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002









231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006









230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18









229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X









228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993









227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012









226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001









225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3









224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001









223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006










(**1/4)
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010









221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000







*​



Spoiler: List so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)
*270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF, you should change that Rock/Cena image to something that doesn't stretch the page out. Try this: _(what a horrible Crossface, yet Rock is selling the fuck out of it)_










And lol @ Undertaker vs Undertaker. Which one is the real Taker? Purple or the grey gloves?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, thanks C2D.

The real was the purple gloves iirc.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Subjectivity is indeed a tricky situation.

Trying to tell somebody that Brock/Cena > every WWF/WWE match besides the original HIAC can certainly be a hard point to get across.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> And lol @ Undertaker vs Undertaker. Which one is the real Taker? Purple or the grey gloves?


I loved that storyline as a kid


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Subjectivity is indeed a tricky situation.
> 
> Trying to tell somebody that Brock/Cena > every WWF/WWE match besides the original HIAC can certainly be a hard point to get across.


That's because it isn't true 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good grief, WWF/WWE has put on a ton of bad main events. Looking back, there are so many that are stinkers.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill have to re-watch Shamrock/HBK, could of sworn i thought it was better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Ill have to re-watch Shamrock/HBK, could of sworn i thought it was better.


So did I. I was dissapointed - a lot. Way too long, quite sloppy and dull too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I still like the HHH/HBK HIAC better than most, in fact I gave it ***1/2, but I will agree that it's too bloody long. 

Dat Cena crossface though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

_TOP 10 streak matches_
been bored and saw fluze and gamblor's taker list so, I had the streak dvd on netlfix and decided to do this

*10) Kevin Nash vs Undertaker wrestlemania 12*

I honestly forgot about this match, you would honestly think shawn/bret was the only match on that card. Decent heavyweight contest here,good control portion but Diesel with taker bouncing around like he is a crusierweight here, good action but its kinda boring and the crowds kinda dead. ****1/2*

*9) Ric Flair vs undertaker wm 18*

IDK why this one doesnt get that much play, its MOTN imo, nice little contest between two legends, starts off with a brawl in the corner, than in the ring, and it just continues to be a hard-hitting affair the whole match, ARN :mark: sighting, this one just seems to drag at the end could have been cut shorter. Geez Flair's head actually bounced off the mat after the tombstone ****3/4*
*

8) "Legend Killer" Randy Orton vs Undertaker wrestlemania 21*

Fun match, geez Randy was young here, very fast paced in the beginning and then it starts to slow down, undertaker takes control followed by Orton, the match was alittle rubbish in the begining to me but I then started enjoying it all towards the end. I remember actually think Orton was about to end the streak, great match* ****-1/4*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Diesel @ WM12 is definelty a sleeper IMO, underrated big man encounter. Nash saying " Im the shit" right into the camera on his entrance was classic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 most disturbing matches in WWF/E ever?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Top 5 most disturbing matches in WWF/E ever?


I suppose Cena/Miz is up there


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Stuff like Droz getting his neck broken and Owen falling to his death, I guess. Not the most pleasant of subjects.

Unless you meant disturbed in a scripted manner.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Bork vs. Zach Gowen


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Duke Silver said:


> Stuff like Droz getting his neck broken and Owen falling to his death, I guess. Not the most pleasant of subjects.
> 
> Unless you meant disturbed in *a scripted manner*.


Yes, this


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Diesel v Brittish Bulldog at In Your House 4 was so disturbing that Vince threw his headset down after the show and roared 'HORRIBLE!' and the proceeded to give Nash a dressing down in front of the departing crowd. Diesel's WWF title run was disturbing.

Roddy Piper vs Jerry Lawler main eventing KotR 94 when WWF was advertising their 'New Generation' was disturbing.

Big Show vs Bossman for the title was disturbing

The WWE title match and the Jeff Hardy thing at Survivor Series 2008 was disturbing.

Jim Ross and Michael Cole in any wrestling match is disturbing

Vince McMahon winning the WWF title was disturbing

Over the Edge 99 continuing after Owen Hart dying was disgusting


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Brock/Gowen is a good shout. That's a fairly viscous beat-down. 

Taker/McMahon (SS03) is disturbing for all the right reasons; buckets of Vinnie Mac's blood. Eddie/JBL (JD04) would fall into the same category. Rock/Mankind (Rumble 99) is hard to watch given the excessive amount of chair shots to the head.










Or there's stuff like Heidenreich raping Michael Cole.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Kayfabe disturbing? Lesnar v Cena Extreme Rules was disturbing as those elbow shots were legit. Also, HHH/Taker HIAC was disturbing because those chair shots turned Taker's back various shades of blue and violet. The whole point to pro wrestling is that it's a work and you're not supposed to be beating each other up for real.


----------



## Redwood (Jun 16, 2010)

Just purchased the Best of Monday Nitro, Vol. 2.

Should I be excited?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Redwood Raven said:


> Just purchased the Best of Monday Nitro, Vol. 2.
> 
> Should I be excited?


I didn't think it was as good as Vol.1 personally, but overall it's good, opens up with a Savage/Hogan tag match, with a seemingly coked up promo afterwards lol. Excellent cruiserweight match on there, and DDP/Bret too i think, as well as Goldberg/Raven which is fun.

Edge/Brock - Rebellion 2002 - ***3/4

Really enjoyed this, yeah it was a handicap match with Heyman too, but his involvment was minimal, quite a lengthy main event too, which was nice.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Talking of disturbing, what match was it when Hardcore Holly got that huge laceration on his back? It was on ECW in 2006. vs RVD maybe?

@Zep, good to see you like that Edge/Brock (& Heyman) match from Rebellion, always found that to be a lot of fun. Heyman as always is superb even when he's no the main focus.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Whilst doing my Brock project, its amazing to see how many moves Lesnar just pulls out week in, week out, seemingly on the fly too. Im just on the road to Survivor Series 2002 with Big Show atm, onto a Guerrero SD match, with tensions between Heyman and Brock very high


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Talking of disturbing, what match was it when Hardcore Holly got that huge laceration on his back? It was on ECW in 2006. vs RVD maybe?


Yep. Pretty good match too. He got his back cut open early on after going through the table on the outside but continued to finish the match for another 10 or so minutes.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Agree with Gowen vs Brock (especially at the part where Brock continues the attack even after Gowen's mum comes out). Matches that come to mind are Eddie Guerrero vs JBL Judgement day and Rock vs Mankind (those chairshots to the head!). 

One recent match that I watched was Benoit vs Rock in a Smackdown show in 2000. Watch around 13.00 where Rikishi hits the Banzai drop on the Rock and then blood comes out of Rock's mouth (internal bleeding). It's fake yes but I hate seeing stuff like that 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8...-benoit_sport?from_related_right#.Ue3vFW3wCXQ


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Heyman just turned on Brock, totally forgot Show won the title at SS'02 too lol. Loved the F5 to Show


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness someone mentioned Bulldog/Diesel from IYH 4. If you think your choice for worst match ever is bad, wait til you watch this.

Undertaker/Vader IYH Canadian Stampede: ****3/4*
For fans of big man slugfests. Best match they had together.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I personally think of Diesel/Bulldog as a "so bad it's actually legit good" way, and actually gave it a favorable rating


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mmmm, Bulldog vs Brock :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think I've ever seen Diesel/Bulldog. And after hearing how bad it is all these years, I REALLY wanna see it.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Vince McMahon/Zach Gowen from Vengeance 2003 was brutal as well. Vince gets busted open early and blood pours from his head. It was a very bloody match


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vince bleeds like a stuck pig when he gets busted open and it always seems to be the hard way too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WWE.com posted their Top Ten matches of the Three Hour Raw Era. Top three seem to be out of order, and I'd have RVD/Jericho higher.



Spoiler: WWE Top Ten



10. Rob Van Dam vs Chris Jericho - 7/15/2013
9. Antonio Cesaro vs Wade Barrett vs Kofi Kingston vs R-Truth - 12/3/2012
8. Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - 4/29/2013
7. Miz vs Wade Barrett - 4/8/2013
6. Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler - 9/24/2012
5. Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk - 2/4/2013
4. Team HellNo/Undertaker vs The Shield - 4/22/2013
3. Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - 6/24/2013
2. John Cena vs CM Punk - 2/24/2013
1. Team HellNo/Kofi Kingston vs The Shield - Night after Extreme Rules


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I honestly think 6 of those matches shouldn't be anywhere near a top 10 *positive* style list. I mean fuck, some of those matches are utterly SHITE (oh hai Miz).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Miz/Barrett wasn't great, but DAT BARRETT POP though. 

Punk/Cena should definitely be number one, with Shield/HellNo and Taker right behind.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Barrett/Miz match isn't bad, but it certainly shouldn't be anywhere near a top 10 list. Last time Barrett won a match from what I remember. Good looks on the number 1 though. Here's my list:

(****1/4)
1) Ambrose, Reins, and Rollins vs. Daniel Bryan, Kane, and Kofi Kingston Raw 5/20/2013
(****)
2) Undertaker, Kane, and Daniel Bryan vs. Roman Reins, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose Raw 4/22/2013
3) Punk vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13
(***3/4)
4) Seth Rollins and Roman Reins vs. Daniel Bryan and Kane Raw 5/27/2013
5) Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, and Roman Reins vs. Jericho, Ryback, and Sheamus Raw 2/18/2013
6) Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins Raw 6/10/2013
(***1/2)
7) Punk vs. Jericho Raw 2/4/13
8) Bryan vs. Jericho Raw 2/11/13
9) Punk vs. Ryback Raw 1/7/13
10) Bryan vs. Orton Raw 6/24/13


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The top half of that list is actually very good. Can't say the same for the other half, but it is nice to see that the fatal four way is on the list.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy fuck. Just watched the 8 man Lucha opener from Souled Out 1998 and it is completely :mark: :mark: :mark: La Parka is THE man.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I don't think I've ever seen Diesel/Bulldog. And after hearing how bad it is all these years, I REALLY wanna see it.


You don't want to. It's DREADFUL.



iwatchwrestling said:


> WWE.com posted their Top Ten matches of the Three Hour Raw Era. Top three seem to be out of order, and I'd have RVD/Jericho higher.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, WWE.com actually are spot on with number one. I don't believe it.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> You don't want to. It's DREADFUL.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, WWE.com actually are spot on with number one. I don't believe it.


I am just trying to picture Vince chewing out Kevin Nash after that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vince blaming only Nash is a bit bunk. Smith isn't really as grand as some like to think he is so him blowing in that match all the same doesn't come as a shock. He deserved just as much as Nash did. Crap all around.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> I personally think of Diesel/Bulldog as a "so bad it's actually legit good" way, and actually gave it a favorable rating


Same goes for the Big Show vs Kane match on RAW 5/8/6.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is that the one where they chain wrestle during? Probably not considering May 19th was right around the corner and Kane was dealing with that crap.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I was just thinking about that match, is there any video of Vince screaming at nash ? 

There is only like 2 matches on that list that come remotely close to top 10


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Is that the one where they chain wrestle during? Probably not considering May 19th was right around the corner and Kane was dealing with that crap.


Indeed. Followed with an Imposter Kane playing mindgames with Kane during the match and Kane going apeshit on Big Show with a steel chair afterwards. Tremendous stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Awesome; just how I remember it. Last time I watched Backlash '06 I remember thinking how their match wasn't really bad on that night either. More or less a perplexing finish is all. Do love me some monster slugfests.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

ATF said:


> I personally think of Diesel/Bulldog as a "so bad it's actually legit good" way, and actually gave it a favorable rating


Then you fail cause it just sucks so much. Mabel v Yoko you could laugh at because it's so bad but Nash was the champion and didn't bother learning how to wrestle a decent match always needing Shawn or Bret to carry him much like Smith really.



zep81 said:


> Mmmm, Bulldog vs Brock :mark:


It'd suck believe me though I'm not as in love with Lesnar as some....



Dark Church said:


> Vince McMahon/Zach Gowen from Vengeance 2003 was brutal as well. Vince gets busted open early and blood pours from his head. It was a very bloody match


It was hardway from the steel chair but it was at the end of the match when Gowen kicked the chair into Vince.



redskins25 said:


> I was just thinking about that match, is there any video of Vince screaming at nash ?
> 
> There is only like 2 matches on that list that come remotely close to top 10


Nah. It took place after the show. There may have been a filmed dark match after it for a CHV release so maybe thd cameras were still rolling but it's never surfaced, there were no camera phones and fancams were usually of house shows were security wouldn't have been as tight.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

*Part 4 (220-201)*

*(**1/4)
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North









219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012









218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009









217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header









216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007









215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988









214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999









213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994









212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003









(**1/2)
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009









210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997









209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995









208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999









207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999









206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10









205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007









(**3/4)
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012









203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003









202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986









201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000(**1/4)[/COLOR]
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

same I would love to see that
----------------------
_*TOP 10 STREAK MATCHES CONT.*_

I apologize as I just saw I made a mistake, #8)orton/taker is actually #7 and punk/taker is #8 meaning 8)punk/taker 7)orton/taker

Anyways

*8**) Cm Punk vs Undertaker wrestlemania 29*
The latest match of the streak, actually went down considerably, it was at *****1/2 before. DAT entrance by punk :mark: only hbk wm 14 rivals it. Its a uniquely worked match, different then his ones with hbk, hhh, edge etc. Punk controlled most than we got vintage taker. Heyman is just the man he adds so much to anything he does. MY problem with this is its structured kinda odd and it has a "pick up slow down pick up" feel to it imo. ****3/4*
*
7) Randy Orton vs Undertaker wrestlemania 21 ****-1/4*

See my comments on the other page just its in this spot

*
6) Dave Batista vs Undertaker wrestlemania 23*

This one is extremely fun, just a slug fest. Batista and taker trading blows, this is what a heavyweight match should be. Its not that long so it flies by but is a joy to watch. *****1/4*

so far 

10)taker/nash ***1/2
9) taker/flair ***3/4
8) taker/punk ***3/4
7) taker/orton ****-1/4
6) taker/batista ****1/4

Edit: completely fixed of spelling errors


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That Bash match between Trips/Orton is far worse than Trips/HBK HIAC. Like, a lot fucking worse. 

And I've got Punk/Taker as a top five streak match. Those two did terrific work for what was essentially a thrown together feud/match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Five and a half stars for Punk/'Taker? IMMENSE~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*WWE Divas Championship* - AJ Lee(c) vs Kaitlyn ~ _WWE Money in the Bank 2013_​
Alrighty, so Kaitlyn apparently messed up her elbow on a spear at the Smackdown tapings. Fine. Target located for AJ. As expected, she goes right for it. Match had an off feel to it. You knew the comparison to the good match they had at Payback would be looming. To their credit, not topping it didn't matter. I didn't even put it in my head. The bar was raised and the sole fact they had at least one good match was plenty positive in of itself. Rematch here lacked something fierce. It still was WAY better than 99% of most other main roster Divas matches, although it didn't hit any territory towards being considered "good". AJ's work on the injured arm was there. It's not going to make you go "ooh" or "ahh" as you watch. She's simply pressing the leverage on the arm in a fashion to where Kaitlyn is in pain. K, that goes on for a bit. Kaitlyn makes her comeback with some moves: reverse DDT with the bad arm, backbreaker. AJ gets dumped onto Langston and instead of allowing Kaitlyn to grab her, he places AJ in the ring instead, forcing Kaitlyn to waste time & energy to go back and forth. Kaitlyn hits a spear and sells the injured arm well. Bet that didn't take much as the injury was legit. Regardless if by circumstances she only sold well b/c it was indeed hurting, that was the brightest part of the match. AJ slaps on the Black Widow out of nowhere & after a good bit in the hold, Kaitlyn submits. Mind you while all of this was torquing on the NON-INJURED ARM. Thus making the bulk of the work in the match seem oh so useless. One big pile of meh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> That Bash match between Trips/Orton is far worse than Trips/HBK HIAC. Like, a lot fucking worse.


I have to disagree. I found some humor in parts of the Bash match included the beat down in the end plus the action in the third fall wasn't exactly horrible. HBK/HHH inside HIAC puts me to sleep.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If I HAD to pick, I'm easily with iwatchwrestling here. Bash match is so, so poor. Then again, both suck ass. Just about every Triple H vs Orton or Michaels match does.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm really shocked how down punk/taker went, its still good but to go from ****1/2 to ***3/4 is HUGE


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cody, could do me a favor and hand out your full reviews of Angle/Benoit RR and Angle/HBK WM?

Just for curiosity


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


>


:lmao

This one's almost as good as his reaction to the tombstone kickout at WM25.

Top 10 Streak Matches... all of them are in my top 60 Taker list, but here's what I got (and I'll add in a comment or two for a change):

(***3/4)
10) vs. HHH WM17
-Just a fun match, DAT REF BUMP, going around the ring, the awesome nearfall with the sledgehammer and then the eventual finish was great as well. 

(****)
9) vs. Ric Flair WM18
-What could be argued as Ric Flair's best match in WWE in his 2002-2008 tenure, a fantastic brawl. We get a classic Flair bladejob, AA Spinebuster, sit-up from the figure-four spot, and at a time when it wasn't common, a TOMBSTONE FTW. Awesome build up to it as well.

8) vs. HHH WM28
-Awesome storytelling+brutality. The pacing and structure of the match always kinda gets to me, plus not using the cell much, but what it does well it does really well. Good ending with an awesome aftermath of Taker and HBK carrying HHH's lifeless body, with the three of them hugging on stage. Good shit.

7) vs. Kane WM14
-The best Taker/Kane match happens to be their first. Taker being in the position of the underdog throughout the match and getting absolutely destroyed was a sight to behold at the time, and still is to this day. Kane kicking out of two tombstones and almost kicking out of the third one was amazing. The diving spot through the table was great as well. The build to this match is the greatest storyline in WWE imo.

(****1/4)
6) vs. Orton WM21
-This was the last time there was a strong chance the streak would end. Taker and Orton have an awesome back and fourth match, with some cool moments like Bob Orton hitting Taker with the cast, and of course the sick chokeslam reversal into the RKO. That was where I remember thinking it was over when I first watched it, live. Orton was my second favorite wrestler at the time (behind only Taker), so this was a dream match at the time and a strong start to their feud.

5) vs. Edge WM24
-One of the best main events in Mania history. The beginning may be slow but it's how it had to be done given the characters and size difference. The important thing is they didn't keep it slow all match and they built it up as time went on and had some awesome counters. Watching live, after the second spear I did think the streak might've ended, although Taker locked in Hells Gates right after. Much like with Orton above, Edge was my second favorite wrestler at the time of the match (again, behind Taker) and I remember I was really happy to see it as the main event. Makes me even happier that they delivered and Edge had his best normal singles match ever.

(****1/2)
4) vs. Batista WM23
-Right off the bat this thing starts off with an incredible amount of intensity and energy, and they keep it going for 15 minutes straight. Nobody thought the two were capable of putting on MOTN (well, mainly Batista), let alone MOTY, but they did. Arguably Batista's best match ever. Incredible stuff.

3) vs. HBK WM26
-The match suffers a bit from the crowd not being as into it, the atmosphere not being the same as the previous year, and the nearfalls not being quite as memorable but technically it's just as good. Taker gives HBK an amazing finale to his career and the ending couple of minutes with HBK kicking out of the second tombstone to the end are legendary. One of the best main events WM main events ever, if not the best. 

(****3/4)

2) vs. CM Punk WM29
-It's funny that I've been lucky enough to see three of my #2 guys face off with my favorite at Mania, but this one was the best easily. The only thing I could say was wrong with this match was that it was hard to believe Punk would end the streak. Also the table not breaking kinda sucked, but at the same time the spot did look a bit more brutal because of it and the sound of Punk hitting it but it not giving way. But outside of that it's a masterfully wrestled match between the self-proclaimed best in the world and the man who's taken the mantle of "stealing the show" at Mania for a good portion of the last decade. The structure, the pacing, the reversals, the tombstone nearfall kick out, the final tombstone which was one of the best looking I've seen... and even going to the entrances. Punk's was amazing and Taker's was the GOAT imo. If only Punk was more believable to end the streak this may have hit *****, but oh well, it was still the second biggest match of the night, arguably the best build and MOTY as it stands right now.

(*****)

1) vs. HBK WM25
-GOAT match. Everything about this clicked. The wrestling, the storytelling, psychology, crowd, big-time atmosphere, near-falls... I really don't know what else to say.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I'm really shocked how down punk/taker went, its still good but to go from ****1/2 to ***3/4 is HUGE


Damn, that is a heck of a drop.

I'm willing to admit that my Trips/HBK markdom plays a part in my ranking, but I really did think that HIAC match was halfway decent. 

Bash match is vomit-inducing, however.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I too like the HHH/HBK HIAC, always thought it ended the feud well. However, it is definitely too long.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HBK/HHH HIAC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Orton/HHH The Bash. Orton/HHH The Bash makes their Mania match look like a classic.

Plus I think HBK/HHH HIAC is good. It's disappointing considering the feud and competitors, and boring as well... but still good.

Edit:

Ew, what's with the purple names?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm a fan of HHH/HBK HIAC as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Cody, could do me a favor and hand out your full reviews of Angle/Benoit RR and Angle/HBK WM?
> 
> Just for curiosity


This means I'll have to watch them again for a fresher take. Oh lordy. I'll see if I'm in the mood while RAW is recording. _(I can't stand watching with commercials)_ Get them up ASAP and whatnot. Been meaning to watch the Rumble match as it is. Preparing to dislike it. Wondering how much. After Unforgiven '02 didn't hold up, I've lost all faith in Benoit vs Angle matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just cannot forgive HHH and HBK for taking the spotlight from Benoit around the time the HIAC match occured. Orton/HHH wins/doesn't lose by default.

Shield/Ryback-Cena-Sheamus from a house show that is posted on Youtube is real good. What are some other good hidden gems from house shows?

TLC 6 Man still holds up as the #2 match of last year. If it wasn't for the #5 best WWE title match ever, it would be a firm #1 in a STACKED year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Tensai from Smackdown = 2012's most underrated match. Or possibly Cesaro vs Gabriel from HIAC. I'll accept both.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Is there a point in watching the 'Shotgun Saturday' shows? Do they advance storylines or are they just like Main Event/Superstars today where there are just random matches? 

I'm wondering if I should watch it's debut episode or just move to the first RAW episode of 1997.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I need a list of everything good since Extreme Rules. Going on a serious catch up binge tonight.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Oliver-94 said:


> Is there a point in watching the 'Shotgun Saturday' shows? Do they advance storylines or are they just like Main Event/Superstars today where there are just random matches?
> 
> I'm wondering if I should watch it's debut episode or just move to the first RAW episode of 1997.


The original Shotgun Sat Night shows shot in wierd locations like bars, niteclubs and train stations were kinda interesting. They were basically ripping of ECW but they're a genuine curio (for the time anyway). As for did it progress storylines, you have to remember that in early 1997 even Monday Night Raw didn't advance storylines that much and had filler matches. Shotgun featured upper card stars like em, Goldust, Hunter, Owen Hart and Austin & Bret occasionally but afaik HBK or Sid never appeared.

Once Shotgun became a syndicate show filmed on the same day as Raw is War it just became your standard filler show though there's a few interesting things: I think HBK cut a promo on the renamed Shotgun once and iirc the LOD/Godwins feud advanced on it as did tripe like Lor Bouriquas/DOA/NOD.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This purple name ish is pimp.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> The original Shotgun Sat Night shows shot in wierd locations like bars, niteclubs and train stations were kinda interesting. They were basically ripping of ECW but they're a genuine curio (for the time anyway). As for did it progress storylines, you have to remember that in early 1997 even Monday Night Raw didn't advance storylines that much and had filler matches. Shotgun featured upper card stars like em, Goldust, Hunter, Owen Hart and Austin & Bret occasionally but afaik HBK or Sid never appeared.
> 
> Once Shotgun became a syndicate show filmed on the same day as Raw is War it just became your standard filler show though there's a few interesting things: I think HBK cut a promo on the renamed Shotgun once and iirc the LOD/Godwins feud advanced on it as did tripe like Lor Bouriquas/DOA/NOD.


 Good post (Y)

Definitely agree with RAW having filler matches. There are so many pointless tag team matches (i.e. Lief Cassidy and Marty Jannetty vs two Mexicans whose names I cannot remember). Only storylines that seem to be advancing is the main event storylines and also the IC title with Hunter, Mero and Goldust all the in hunt. Stone Cold is feuding with Bret Hart also. Quite surprised that shows lasted only 48-50 minutes back then. I have only watched the summer of 97 and it was worth watching. People say that the year 1997 itself is arguably the best Attitude Era year and I'm about to watch the first RAW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I need a list of everything good since Extreme Rules. Going on a serious catch up binge tonight.





Spoiler: Grouping from my MOTYC list in chronological order



25) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Kofi Kingston - (Monday Night RAW - 5/20)

26) WWE Tag Team Championship
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Kane & Daniel Bryan - (Monday Night RAW - 5/27)

27) Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - (Main Event - 5/29)

28) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton - (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

29) Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

30) NXT Tag Team Championship
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves - (NXT - 6/5)

31) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - (Main Event - 6/5)

32) Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - (Monday Night RAW - 6/10)

33) Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - (NXT - 6/12)

34) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - (Smackdown - 6/14)

35) Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton vs The Shield - (Smackdown - 6/14)

36) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs Alberto Del Rio - (Payback - 6/16)

37) Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - (Monday Night RAW - 7/8)

38) Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro - (Main Event - 7/10)

39) Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Jack Swagger vs Antonio Cesaro vs Dean Ambrose vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

40) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Dolph Ziggler - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

41) WWE Championship
John Cena(c) vs Mark Henry - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)





Spoiler: Other really good matches post Extreme Rules by shows



*Main Event:*
Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel ~ 5/29

Justin Gabriel vs Curt Hawkins ~ 6/5

Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara ~ 6/19

Chris Jericho vs Cody Rhodes ~ 6/26 (you may dig this, it had some good moments)

Christian vs Damien Sandow ~ 7/3 (again, you may like it more than myself. I didn't think this was any good, but that's more or less a minority opinion it seems.)

Christian vs Fandango ~ 7/17

*NXT:*

Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn ~ 5/22

Bray Wyatt vs Corey Graves ~ 5/22

NXT Championship
Big E. Langston vs Bo Dallas ~ 6/12

The Wyatt Family vs Kassius Ohno, Adrian Neville, & Corey Graves ~ 6/19

Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves vs Scott Dawson & Garrett Dylan ~ 6/26

NXT Championship
Bo Dallas vs Antonio Cesaro ~ 7/3

Summer Rae vs Emma ~ 7/10

Sami Zayn vs Leo Kruger ~ 7/10

The Wyatt Family vs William Regal, Adrian Neville, & Corey Graves ~ 7/10

Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn vs Leo Kruger ~ 7/17

NXT Tag Team Championship
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Adrian Neville & Corey Graves ~ 7/17


*Smackdown:*

Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger ~ 5/24

The Shield vs Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Kofi Kingston ~ 5/24

Daniel Bryan vs Roman Reigns ~ 5/30

Chris Jericho vs Curtis Axel ~ 6/7

Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns ~ 6/7

Sheamus vs Cody Rhodes ~ 6/21

Christian vs Drew McIntyre ~ 6/21

Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton ~ 6/21

Dublin Street Fight
Sheamus vs Damien Sandow ~ 6/28 (Same; it was decent for me, may be more for you.)

Dolph Ziggler vs Dre McIntyre ~ 7/5

CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio ~ 7/5

Daniel Bryan vs Christian ~ 7/12

Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett ~ 7/19

Rob Van Dam vs Darren Young ~ 7/19 (idk, it's RVD so it's a fun little plug.)


RAW:

Sheamus vs Titus O'Neil ~ 5/20

Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger ~ 5/20

Sheamus & Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow ~ 5/27

Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara ~ 6/10

Handicap Match
Sheamus vs Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow ~ 6/17

Antonio Cesaro vs William Regal ~ 6/17

CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio ~ 6/17

Sheamus & Christian vs Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow ~ 6/24

Ryback vs Great Khali ~ 6/24 (seriously; it was fun)

Street Fight
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton ~ 6/24 (I wasn't a fan, but you HAVE to see it just for the ending.)

The Shield vs Christian & The Usos ~ 7/1

CM Punk & Curtis Axel vs Prime Time Players ~ 7/1

John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio ~ 7/1

Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Tons of Funk ~ 7/8

Randy Orton vs Fandago ~ 7/15

Dolph Ziggler vs Alberto Del Rio ~ 7/15

Rob Van Dam vs Chris Jericho ~ 7/15


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Really good Sheamus vs Del Rio match with a logical finish. ★★★1/2 stars for it. Sheamus' selling of the bruised leg was great.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus/Del Rio I'd give *** at best for the leg work and selling. Boring all throughout.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Think I'm gonna turn into a heel smark tonight....

YOU WANT AN UNPOPULAR OPINION? Well here goes: Shawn Micheals 92-98 is better than Shawn Michaels 2002-2010. Some of his 96 title run was iffy (no-selling Vader at IYH9, berrating Vader at SS97 and his ego....) but look at the Badd Blood HIAC. Shawn could have danced out of the Kiel Centre but he sold Taker's beating something fierce. He was a hot heel in late 97 and if the wind blew his way stole the show in '94/'95. His return stuff? Yeah the Angle and Cena matches were good but having them return wins were a bit sucky imo even if they were good matches; he shoulda been putting guys over clean a la Foley. To me, he just wasn't as hot as he was in the 90s. He didn't have the same spring in his step.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cody you're the best. Where's your full MOTYC list?

Current LIST as of Extreme Rules:

1. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
2. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
3. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
4. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
5. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
6. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
7. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
8. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
9. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
10. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
11. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
12. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
13. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
14. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## Prayer Police (Sep 27, 2012)

Isn't that guy in the audience too hot wearing that Chewbacca hoodie outside?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk and Heyman knocked it out of the park, once again. 

I may be biased, but would I be wrong in already calling this the greatest program since Summer of 2011? I mean, that's three segments in a row I would call three of the absolute best of the year thus far, with last week's segment topping the list. Everything about this program so far has been extraordinary.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

CM Punk is proving to all the doubters and cynics that he can play a babyface at a top level. unk5

So is Mark Henry :henry1


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Another phenomenal promo between Punk and Heyman. These two have the best chemistry with each other in wrestling today bar-none. 

I'm honestly getting more excited for this match than Bryan vs Cena.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cesaro/bryan is about to happen :mark:

PLEASE GO 20 MINS PLZ GO 20 MINS PLEASSSSSSSSSE


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That was legit. Picked a good night to watch my first Raw in ages.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Cesaro and Bryan, GODS in the ring. Brings me back. 

Seeing Bryan bring it in the ring makes me less annoyed by his current character, too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, there's another match added to my top 10 of the year, and low and behold it's a TV match. 

Bryan/Cesaro- ****

List so far:

1) Taker vs. Punk WM29
2) Shield vs. Hell No and Kofi Raw 5/20/13
3) WHC MITB 
4) Shield vs. Taker and Hell No Raw 4/22/13
5) Bryan vs. Cesaro Raw 7/22/13
6) Ziggler vs. Del Rio Payback
7) Punk vs. Cena Raw 2/25/13
8) Ziggler vs. Cesaro Main Event 7/10/13
9) Shield vs. Hell No Raw 5/27/13
10) Shield vs. Ryback, Sheamus, and Jericho Raw 2/18/13

Just damn at that match list. It changes almost every week. Excellent year so far.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This has potential to be the greatest gauntlet match ever. Heck, it probably already is - and it isn't even done! This third hour has been great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shitty Raw so far but I think it was worth it just for that awesome Cesaro/Bryan match. ★★★¾-★★★★.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★3/4 for Cesaro/Bryan. :mark:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk, Danielson, Castagnoli.

The stars of the fucking show tonight. Who would'a thunk it.

***3/4 for Bryan vs. Cesaro.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Edit: DAT double post.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Daniel Bryan vs. Antonio Cesaro *Raw 7/22/13* - ****

I like the story of Cesaro's use of the European uppercut. That move has allowed Cesaro to control Bryan at several points in the match. The finish was great as it showed that Cesaro was too dependent of the European uppercut which allowed Daniel Bryan to counter Swiss death into a small package for the win.
*Edit:*I just watched this a second time and I like it slightly better than the first time. Besides Bryan's counter for the Swiss death, I also enjoyed Bryan and Cesaro trying to match each other blow for blow with vicious looking strikes in the finishing stretch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

RyBOTCH


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Daniel Bryan Gauntlet: ******

Updated MOTYC since everyone else is doing it:

Punk/Taker WM 29 *****1/2*
Punk/Cena RAW 2/25 *****1/2*
Ziggler/Del Rio Payback *****1/4*
Punk/Jericho Payback *****1/4* (Yeah, I know. But I have my reasons)
Shield/Kofi-Hell No RAW 5/20 *****1/4*
Shield/BoDNO RAW 4/22 *****1/4*
Regal/Ohno NXT ******
Shield/Team Sell No Elimination Chamber ******
WHC MITB ******
Daniel Bryan Gauntlet ******
Ziggler/Cesaro Main Event 7/10 ******
Shield/Hell No RAW 5/27 ******
WWE MITB ******

Already a very stacked year, with a potential classic PPV to come.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

For as bad (save for Punk/Heyman) as the first two hours were, Bryan saved the third hour. THE WHOLE THIRD HOUR. 

Bryan/Cesaro was pretty sweet, and Bryan/Swagger was nothing to sneeze at either, but Ryback should have tapped out. Zero direction for him now, and it just set up a meaningless tables match with Cena that he'll likely lose. 

Crowd was eating up Bryan the whole night.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Bryan vs Cesaro *****1/4*

Watching this match felt like watching an indy match, a fucking awesome indy match. My only problem with this match tbh is coming down to the end when Cesaro went HAM on those european uppercut. Sorry but that shit is just bush league to me. Everything else was just amazing though. They started off working a nice WWE style match and then the latter half just turned into some fine hard hitting action. 

I really think the indies is doing something special with the whole hard hitting, incorporating MMA into pro wrestling thing, but they just go about so wrong and so bad ha;f the times. They'refew guys that really do it well- Sami Callihan probably being the best example of that hybrid style of the MMA, hard hitting and a little bit of the old throwback days. It's about damn WWE started doing because it's where wrestling has evolved. As long as it's not every Tom, Dick, harry and Jane that's doing and it's reserved for the right moment, I have no problem with it. And of course, oce you don't do 1000 fucking uppercuts.

The finish also bothered me and screamed bush league as well. The whole 90mph deal and a the dreaded roll up ends the match. That irks me a lot. A much better finish imo would have been to have Cesaro pass out during the guillotine. Anything is better than a freaking roll up being the finish for a match such as this. 

Man, why do I have to be such a bummer. Here I am praising a match but shitting so much on it. I can't help it 

But i really, really enjoyed this match and it just felt so different from what we're used to seeing on WWE TV. It felt special and I'm surprised these guys were given so time to work with. Goddamn, this was some damn good shit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> Well, there's another match added to my top 10 of the year, and low and behold it's a TV match.


And it involves Bryan. There's no denying it. Bryan is WOTY.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know we got a MOTYC, but I would like to say there was actually a very good ziggler match tonite aswell

Saying that, outside of payback del rio/ziggler I dont know if their was a match better this year than bryan/cesaro tbh, I havent had that much fun watching a match live in a VERY VERY long time


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Bryan/ Cesaro 7/22/13 is the best Raw match I've seen all year. 

Top 3 WWE match overall. 

****1/2 

Loved the puro style second half because it meant something to the finish and raised the intensity level.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Bryan/Cesaro **** and half stars. Raws best match this year. Both men went all out. It made Cesaro look a star and Bryan look like a Main Eventer.


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Starting to think Shark Boy doesn't know what bush league means. Really really liked that match btw. I'm so happy to see people can have exciting WWE matches without having to kick out finishers all the damn time.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Bryan/Cesaro - ***3/4. Pretty awesome match but Rollins/Bryan is still better. 

Top3 matches of Raw so far:


Punk vs Cena
Bryan vs Rollins
Bryan vs Cesaro


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Caponex75 said:


> Starting to think Shark Boy doesn't know what bush league means. Really really liked that match btw. I'm so happy to see people can have exciting WWE matches without having to kick out finishers all the damn time.


They substitute endless finishers for endless uppercuts and kicks to the head. That's all. How could anyone not see this?


I don't know if anyone realized this but the crowd didn't react much to the near falls. Why? They're not stupid. They know Cesaro's uppercuts weren't going to end it there, so they knew the "1..2.. ohhh" was coming. The near falls were really flat and very inconvincible imo. So where as before the guys couldn't convince the audience about a near fall using a finisher kickout, now they couldn't using a ridiculous amounts strikes.

All I'm saying, is that if this were a legit fit there's no fucking way Bryan would have survived that. It would have made a cool ass finish though if Cesaro were to go over and win by KO. But now, I guessed they sort of pissed away a finish. No one is going to be able to buy it as one seeing that Bryan was able to kick out of it.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

inconvincible?

fucking purple everywhere.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> They substitute endless finishers for endless uppercuts and kicks to the head. That's all. How could anyone not see this?
> 
> 
> I don't know if anyone realized this but the crowd didn't react much to the near falls. Why? They're not stupid. They know Cesaro's uppercuts weren't going to end it there, so they knew the "1..2.. ohhh" was coming. The near falls were really flat and very inconvincible imo. So where as before the guys couldn't convince the audience about a near fall using a finisher kickout, now they couldn't using a ridiculous amounts strikes.
> ...


When Cesaro went mental with the uppercuts and then turned him inside out with the lariat I immediately thought 'that should be finishing a match.'


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Cesaro vs Bryan is definitely the future train.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Bryan D. said:


> Bryan/Cesaro - ***3/4. Pretty awesome match but Rollins/Bryan is still better.
> 
> Top3 matches of Raw so far:
> 
> ...


Can't argue. Think both DB matches hit hard in their own right, but these matches truly delivered like everyone who knows what Cesaro and Rollins are capable of knew it would. 

Sheamus vs Rio was pretty damn great itself. Sheamus selling that leg injury like a BOSS and Rio looking more sinister than ever.


----------



## joeycalz (Jan 8, 2010)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Can't argue. Think both DB matches hit hard in their own right, but these matches truly delivered like everyone who knows what Cesaro and Rollins are capable of knew it would.
> 
> Sheamus vs Rio was pretty damn great itself. Sheamus selling that leg injury like a BOSS and Rio looking more sinister than ever.


The fact that Del Rio went over, cleanly, actually made him look like a threat for the first time in God knows how long. 

As many Top 10 matches as Bryan will deliver on RAW this year, that Punk/Cena match is still going to be #1. ****1/2 for me, easily. I have it #2 on their list behind the MitB. I truly thought it was that good.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> When Cesaro went mental with the uppercuts and then turned him inside out with the lariat I immediately thought 'that should be finishing a match.'


Glad to see someone else agreeing with me. 

I've been saying for a while now. Wrestling needs to evolve. The indies have the idea but no one can really grasp the concept right. That would have been one sick, wicked finish. Unfortunately, Cesaro and Bryan fell prey to their indy days of not knowing when to end a match. And like I said, the crowd was dead! They didn't react to the kickout at all. The WWE fans aren't like your typical indy fan who would still, despite seeing it from a mile away, walk up to the ring and slap it in support. 

A lot of people are saying that Cesaro and Bryan proved why they're the future. Quite frankly, if I were a WWE Official the last thing I'd do is put these guys as the future. I'd send them back to NXT cause apparently they learned nothing the first time. 

I wouldn't have mind if the finish were Bryan jumping into the guillotine and Cesaro passing out. But a roll up? Come on. If I shit on the indies for it, I have to shit on the WWE for doing it as well. I can't see how something like this is supposed to impress management when the last thing management gives a crap about is stuff like this.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

joeycalz said:


> The fact that Del Rio went over, cleanly, actually made him look like a threat for the first time in God knows how long.
> 
> As many Top 10 matches as Bryan will deliver on RAW this year, that Punk/Cena match is still going to be #1. ****1/2 for me, easily. I have it #2 on their list behind the MitB. I truly thought it was that good.


Yes. Ever since his loss to Edge, he hasn't felt as strong as he should have been. I actually like the heel tactics as well mixed in with the aggression.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

That rollup was alot better than Jericho/Ryback. I thought the match was great but I like the indy style. I get the point that the average WWE fan wouldn't really buy into that match. They should though because it's better than alot of the crap they do buy into.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still fail to understand what was so bad about the rollup. Satisfiable ending that made sense in context to Bryan's underdog character.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The crowd was not dead for Cesaro/Bryan.

Thought it was a great match. Didn't have a problem with the roll up, I thought it worked fine and made everyone involved look good. That gauntlet made Bryan's character look even better than it already has.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

LOL at sending BRYAN DANIELSON back to developmental.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Anyone else find these backstage segments with Vince/Trips/Stephanie really lame?

I'm loving Maddox's job so far but they've been awful, imo. I'll give it time to see where it goes, but I honestly don't see where it's going.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

You didn't read last week's Observer, Brye?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cesaro/Bryan is n'duh "I wanna fucking get on this shit" because those two guys are still the #1 and #2 workers in the company to me, but I'm really curious if Sandow wrestled. Did he lose, if he did? He lost to Christian clean and I thought that Sandow's angle being "The MITB Holder Who Can't Win a Match Clean, and Only Could by Sneaking From Behind and Betraying His Best Friend" could be friggin' amazing. I really want them to run with that. 




Forever Unchained said:


> Think I'm gonna turn into a heel smark tonight....
> 
> YOU WANT AN UNPOPULAR OPINION? Well here goes: Shawn Micheals 92-98 is better than Shawn Michaels 2002-2010. Some of his 96 title run was iffy (no-selling Vader at IYH9, berrating Vader at SS97 and his ego....) but look at the Badd Blood HIAC. Shawn could have danced out of the Kiel Centre but he sold Taker's beating something fierce. He was a hot heel in late 97 and if the wind blew his way stole the show in '94/'95. His return stuff? Yeah the Angle and Cena matches were good but having them return wins were a bit sucky imo even if they were good matches; he shoulda been putting guys over clean a la Foley. To me, he just wasn't as hot as he was in the 90s. He didn't have the same spring in his step.


I kinda really hate a lot of 21st Century Michaels and think he wasn't any good for most of his comeback. If I were ranking the years of Michaels' career I think at this point there would honestly not be a single a 2000s year above a single 90s or 80s year. Maybe 2007 (ahead of 92 or 93, possibly); he was generally good then, IIRC.


The purple names are oogly. :side:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Wait, why are we putting the #1 and #3 workers in the world back in developmental?

Oh, yes, we could have Daniel Bryan Vs Sami Zayn and Cesaro Vs Regal. I second this move!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cesaro/Sheamus from Japan already got fuckin taken down. Anybody save it?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I've watched it, so it should have cached somewhere on my PC.

EDIT: nope, everything but that is there. Life is such a troll.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Oh my days. Bryan vs. Cesaro was tremendous. Bryan stole the show tonight, but Cesaro had another eye-opening performance. With matches like that, it won't be long before all eyes are open. ****

And WWE's run of outstanding TV matches continues. Bryan has exploded this year. I can't think of many wrestlers in the past few years that have been as consistent (at such a high level) as Daniel Bryan in 2013.

Punk and Heyman were on fire last night aswell (as they have been every week). Punk is really in his wheelhouse right now. It's easily the best babyface he's ever played in the 'E. While Heyman is producing at a level that I don't think even he's been to before.



Yeah1993 said:


> Cesaro/Sheamus from Japan already got fuckin taken down. Anybody save it?


Motherfucking WWE and their copyright BS! I was all set to watch that today.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cesaro/Sheamus from Japan already got fuckin taken down. Anybody save it?


*I randomly downloaded all them videos yesterday :mark:*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lord Flvcko said:


> Really good Sheamus vs Del Rio match with a logical finish. ★★★1/2 stars for it. Sheamus' selling of the bruised leg was great.


Indeed. Quality match from those two per usual. Liked the new story that got to develop thanks to Sheamus's gnarly bruise. He sold it so well; as expected. Bet he had to be dying out there.



Saint Dick said:


> Cody you're the best. Where's your full MOTYC list?
> 
> Current LIST as of Extreme Rules:
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Full WWE MOTYC list



1) WWE Championship - Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match
CM Punk(c) vs Ryback - (Monday Night RAW - 1/7)

2) Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - (Main Event - 1/9)

3) Kane & Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - (Smackdown - 2/1)

4) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - (Monday Night RAW - 2/4)

5) Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger - (NXT - 2/6)

6) NXT Tag Team Championship Tournament Finals
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - (NXT - 2/13)

7) John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - (Elimination Chamber - 2/17)

8) Chris Jericho, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - (Monday Night RAW - 2/18)

9) John Cena vs CM Punk - (Monday Night RAW - 2/25)

10) The Shield vs Big Show, Sheamus, & Randy Orton - (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

11) The Undertaker vs CM Punk - (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

12) No Holds Barred Match
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

13) William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - (NXT - 4/10)

14) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - (Smackdown - 4/19)

15) The Shield vs The Undertaker, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - (Monday Night RAW - 4/22)

16) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Adrian Neville - (NXT - 4/24)

17) No Holds Barred Match
Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio -(Smackdown - 4/26)

18) Big Show vs Sheamus - (Smackdown - 4/26)

19) The Shield vs John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan -(Monday Night RAW - 4/29)

20) WWE United States Championship
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Antonio Cesaro -(Main Event - 5/1)

21) Ryback vs Daniel Bryan - (Smackdown - 5/3)

22) Elimination Match
John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - (Monday Night RAW - 5/13)

23) Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Alberto Del Rio vs Big Show, Mark Henry, & Jack Swagger - (Smackdown - 5/17)

24) Steel Cage Match
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H -(Extreme Rules - 5/19)

25) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Kofi Kingston - (Monday Night RAW - 5/20)

26) WWE Tag Team Championship
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Kane & Daniel Bryan - (Monday Night RAW - 5/27)

27) Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - (Main Event - 5/29)

28) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton - (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

29) Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

30) NXT Tag Team Championship
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves - (NXT - 6/5)

31) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - (Main Event - 6/5)

32) Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - (Monday Night RAW - 6/10)

33) Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - (NXT - 6/12)

34) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - (Smackdown - 6/14)

35) Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton vs The Shield - (Smackdown - 6/14)

36) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs Alberto Del Rio - (Payback - 6/16)

37) Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - (Monday Night RAW - 7/8)

38) Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro - (Main Event - 7/10)

39) Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Jack Swagger vs Antonio Cesaro vs Dean Ambrose vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

40) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Dolph Ziggler - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

41) WWE Championship
John Cena(c) vs Mark Henry - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

42) Alberto Del Rio vs Sheamus - (Monday Night RAW - 7/22)

43) Daniel Bryan vs Antonio Cesaro - (Monday Night RAW - 7/22)



It's still in chronological order. That's how I originally wrote it out and been meaning to post it in terms of ranking. I'll probably do it & post it tomorrow.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

*Triple H vs. Cactus Jack (Falls Count Anywhere Match/RAW 9-22-1997) *










This contest had a few perks that upped the quality to mentionable standards. First off, It was set in MSG, Foley's hometown and historically the initial episode of RAW to be set in the vicinity and aired. The next (very) beneficial perk was Cactus Jack's debut, which of course dictated how the match was going to process in working sense. Onto the match itself, it's basically an early coming of the typical hardcore bout, but as opposed to most, has much more going on and further carnage, than the average. When observed, there are the predictable weapon pummels and in repetitive fashion, but all bind up and improve the simple, yet effective story of _I hate you enough that I brought out a side of me that has been locked away for a long time and for good reasoning, It kills and that's what I aim to do_. Sometimes this story is represented through physical imagery and attire and real obvious things, this match falls under that label, whilst something like Austin-Rock WM17 would fall under the other of which the change is met through small details, transitioning and subtle refining. I digress though, Trips' objective is just the matter of surviving the onslaught of the resurrected mindset of his opponent. It makes me wonder as to how and if Hunter would have came about and became as big of a star If Mick wasn't around to give him those astonishing matches and humongous rubs. This comes close and might even beat their 2000 matches in betterness at certain times. A definite contender for a spot among the top 5 RAW matches ever too. ****​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forever will be my favorite TV match in the whole of 1997. And the promo before the match - gold, gold, gold.

Dude Love - _"OH NO. Are you thinking what I think you're thinking?"

Mankind - "I think I am thinking what you're thinking."

Dude Love - "Can you bring him out, Manny?"

Mankind - "CACTUS JACK...IS BACK!"

Dude Love - "Somebody stake me, I thought he was dead!"_


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I need a list of everything good since Extreme Rules. Going on a serious catch up binge tonight.


You should watch Ziggler/Del Rio from Payback. One of the best matches of the year so far and a potential MOTY candidate.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

As awesome as Bryan/Cesaro was (and it was), I feel like it's overshadowing the overall quality of the show. I mean we got:

- Sheamus vs Del Rio
- Christian vs Titus
- Ziggler vs Young with progression of the Ziggler/AJ/Big E...love triangle..thing
- Progression of Henry/Uso's vs Shield
- Punk/Heyman awesomeness 
- Progression of the Sandow/Rhodes feud
- The D-Bry Gauntlet (the whole thing not just the Cesaro match)

The only thing that was probably bad (I'm just assuming because I skipped it) was the Miz/Divas part of the show. Even RVD vs Barrett wasn't bad, it was just kind of...there, and was basically a squash match.

I would also be remiss if I didn't mention how much I enjoyed the Bryan/Ryback match. Bryan really does bring the best out of everyone he faces, pure class.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I agree. I thought RAW was chalk full of some goodies last night. Only match I wasn't particularly into was Rhodes vs Fandango, although it served a purpose in advancing the Rhodes vs Sandow program. Oh, and personally I can do without the Usos having a job. They're filling the annoying vibe that Kofi Kingston left when he got injured. Dislike those chumps, very heavily. Nix out the Divas tripe and everything was fine. Pardon the crowd unless Danielson or Punk were out there.

---------------

Chris Jericho vs Ryback ~ _WWE Money in the Bank 2013_​
Oof. What was this? Whenever you hear the term "moves-match" tossed out, they're describing something like this. Where the story was nil & it was nothing more than an assortment of moves strung together for eleven minutes. Why wasn't the knee injury of Ryback brought into play? You had him doing the whole "whimp out" crap prior to the PPV and then you don't even place it in the match? How terrible. Only semblance of a story these two decided to work off of was the standard: Ryback is powerful so he's gonna control Jericho with it for a little bit. Other than that; nothing. Ryback slipped while trying to charge towards Jericho in the corner and proceeds to get kicked in the head. That appeared to knock him loopy. Which seemed to stay with him a touch after & that certainly didn't help things. You want to talk about abrupt finishes that don't tie in with any logic whatsoever, well, here you go. Ryback wins clean with a school-boy out of nowhere & that's all she wrote. Fine, Ryback won. That's not a problem. The problem is why? Why that finish? Why build up to the match the way they did if Ryback was just going to use a simple leverage move to get the W? I'm left asking way too many questions following this. The only way to not have any problems with this is if you're chilling with some peeps, having a beer in hand and going "oh that was a cool move" - the ultimate turn your mind off type viewing. b/c if you're watching this and noticing the flaws, you can't possibly think this is any good. To make things worse these two had a good match on Smackdown back in about April or May this year which SHOULD have been the match given on PPV. This one felt like a total run of the mill house show performance. Do your normal routine, finish, leave. That's all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATM MOTY list would be

1) ziggler/ADR payback
2)dbryan/cesaro raw
3) punk/cena raw

Then it gets tricky, I got a cesaro/Sheamus from sd, the sd MITB , ziggler/cesaro , cesaro/ generico , dbryan/orton sd and a shield tag

Henry/cena was good also

Edit: I couldn't get into that foley/hhh fca 97 and it wouldn't be in my top 5 raw matches ever


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/ADR - ***1/4 (on par w/NOC imo)

Gauntlet:
Bryan/Swagger - *3/4
Bryan/Cesaro - ****
Bryan/Ryback - ***

Overall: ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ATM MOTY list would be
> 
> 1) ziggler/ADR payback
> 2)dbryan/cesaro raw
> ...


How about the even better Sheamus vs Cesaro match from Main Event the week prior to their Smackdown match?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4


*Part 5 (200-181)*

*(**3/4)
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010









199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1









198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002









(***)
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012









196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007









195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003









194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013









193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002









192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003









191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010









190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008









189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989









188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008









187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998









186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000









185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000









184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005









183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007









182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2









181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000(**1/4)[/color]
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
*(**3/4)*
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd take Cena vs Sheamus in the cage over all of those other matches. Probably only not the SummerSlam 2000 three way which I think is an absolute blast.

tbf, I haven't seen Cena vs Khali in a bit. I do know I like it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> 195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003


:ti is all I can say for this pic.

And this year has been pretty good for the wrestling. I can no longer keep up with it. Don't have a list and there's so much stuff being praised that I wouldn't even know where to start.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Cena SC was crisp, stiff and told a decent story, but it was way too plodding and unconsistent paace and flow, and there were some clear psychology issues there too. Decent, not more for me.

Cena/Khali JD was the sheer proof that Cena in '07 was a fucking carryhorse. The typical "Cena vs. heel monster" story was rarely told better than there, and it was surprisingly fast paced too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My "ultra excited" side for wanting to see champion Sheamus inside of a cage vs Cena still holds up as I really, really like the match. Nexus stuff didn't even bother me too much considering it would have probably been more unusual for them not to show up.

Perhaps I'll take a quick look at Cena vs Khali today. It is only eight minutes, after all. That's one of the matches on a list, that isn't _too_ small, where I like a match from Khali. Doesn't matter if he was the driving force behind it or not _(for any of them)_. Only as long as he contributed and/or worked to the point of where he didn't hinder things. Khali is clearly not good, but he isn't incapable of a good match. Then there is John-boy who proves his work can shine through to the point of making a match damn near out of nothing. He did it with Lashley too. And Lashley is REALLY bad in his own right.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

The two Cena/Khali championship matches are good. Not even in a "good for a Khali match" type of way, like, genuinely good. As for Lashley, I wouldn't put him very far above Khali at all in terms of being a good worker. I'm struggling to think of any good matches he had apart from the Cena title match. I do remember him having a feud with Finlay at some point so there's probably something good there. Honestly don't remember any of it though apart from at one point Lashley tipped over a truck (and that might not even be the right feud).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

TOP 10 Streak matches CONT.

Top 5
*
5) Triple H vs Undertaker wm 27*









The second chapter in this 3 match series, probably the most polarizing match in the last 10 years. Either you love it or you hate, I'm on the loving side, its a great match and IMO top 3 for best HHH matches. The storytelling is on point, the psychology the whole nine, its a piece of art. *****1/2*

*4) Edge vs undertaker wm 24*








Ok this is definitely the most shocking match on this list, everyone knows I haven't been the biggest fan of this match, iirc I remember giving it a DUD-*3/4 and everyone going crazy, BUT my taste in wrestling has changed and so has my rating of this one. Great match just love Edge just taking it to taker in the beginning and then takers comeback, that punching sequence :mark:, I literally re winded Charles Robinson running to the ring 5 five times :lol. Just a pleasant surprise, I haven't seen edge/hardy cage but this is edge best wwe match imo. *****1/2*

will leave the rest for later, kinda tired of writing this much, but its pretty obvious what the top 3 are :hbk2 :HHH2

top 10 so far
10Nash ***1/2
9Flair *** 3/4
8Punk ***3/4
7Orton ****-1/4
6Batista ****1/4
5Hunter wm 27 ****1/2
4Edge ****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So does anyone have a full review of Angle/HBK WM and/or Angle/Benoit RR?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Wow, from DUD to *****1/2*. That's a huge change of opinion.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

ATF said:


> 188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008


 I marked out like hell when Y2J was revealed Punk's replacement later that night. 2008 heel Y2J was just awesome. He has the worst night of his career (kayfabe wise) and then later comes back to win the title against four other opponents in the same night. I still remember the promo he cut the night after Unforgiven where he said something along the lines of "Batista and JBL can wrestle for the #1 Contender match at No Mercy but all I'll do is come out after and face the winner of the match in the same night".


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

TITUS O'Neil vs. Christian from last night ***** Best Christian match in quite some time


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd have Christian/Sandow from ME a few weeks, the Christian/Bryan match and Christian/Orton match leading up to MITB above it. Christian/Titus wasn't anything special imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I imagine Titus vs little guy has a very slim chance of being anything less than good. Titus is so underrated it's unreal. Get Evan Bourne back and put these in the ring for ten minutes, please. Or bring Zayn up. Or Neville. I don't care. Hell, rejuvinate the minis and let O'Neil run roughshod. The guy is comfortably in my top 5 favourites in the WWE.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I like Titus but mainly for his mic work and energy. He had a good match with Sheamus a while ago but outside of that I haven't been that impressed with his matches... well, at least the ones I've seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian vs Fandango was head and shoulders > vs Titus last night, as far as Christian's return matches go. Titus looked good in the match, although Christian was a pile of crap in it. All he did was punch. It was like he had no clue of what to do on offense vs the big man. It was weird.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Christian really hasnt impressed me since his return, his match with dbryan aside idk just something isn't clicking yet.anybody catch that ziggler/young match, bumping little gem


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah :lmao. Match with Danielson is EASILY his best match back. Good grief, that's obvious.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

They seem to have no plans for Christian like usual. If he stopped caring as much I can't really blame him. He isn't getting younger and they obviously don't want to push him.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Y'all should listen to this. A LOT of it is worth talking*:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not sure why people are upset about the finish to Cesaro/Bryan. It fit the match and Bryan's character PERFECTLY. In the first match he was fresh and made Swagger tap in about 4 minutes. Then after trading blows w/Cesaro for like 20 minutes he catches Cesaro w/a crafty counter for the sneaky pin. Then he goes toe to toe w/Ryback until Ryback loses his cool and gets DQ'd. Every one of his opponents became bigger and "stronger." It made sense given the opening promo where Cena was saying size doesn't matter and it shouldn't matter that Cena is bigger or stronger than Bryan. Bryan proved he can beat you in a multitude of ways. 

Guy is on an entirely different level right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Someone had a problem with Danielson using a super slick small package counter to defeat Cesaro? Why? Pretty sure the way TLK described it above is spot on & it should have been obvious as to why it was great in the first place. 

Gonna chalk it up to it not being a "flashly high impact finish" or some modern day bullshit where a small package isn't "cool" to end matches with.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> *Y'all should listen to this. A LOT of it is worth talking*:


Save it, save dont need no internet nerd telling me what I already know, who the "the headliner" "main event" "MR. Wrestlemania" and the 2nd GOAT only to flair is :hbk2, we need another 90s shawn smile I use that way to much
-----
rewatched Christan/bryan yet another MOTYC

@Cody yea I saw so ppl on here complaining about it, it was right after raw ended, was waiting for one of you guys to comment but this thread was pretty quiet last night

thanks for the link to cesaro/zayn btw


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Save it, save dont need no interent nerd talking me what I already know, who the "the headliner" "main event" "MR. Wrestlemania" and the 2nd GOAT only to flair is :hbk2, we need another 90s shawn smile I use that way to much
> -----
> rewatched Christan/bryan yet another MOTYC


I mentioned it cause he's the dude who gave every HBK WM match except the Tags, vs Santana, vs Diesel and vs Austin ***** :lmao

Interesting how his only argument to "HBK/Razor not being ***** because it was essentially Shawn vs. a ladder" is FUCK YOU :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Weak stuff. Loved the small package finish. Welcoming it more and more in his ultra competitive matches.

No problem, man.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> I mentioned it cause he's the dude who gave every HBK WM match except the Tags, vs Santana, vs Diesel and vs Austin ***** :lmao
> 
> Interesting how his only argument to "HBK/Razor not being ***** because it was essentially Shawn vs. a ladder" is FUCK YOU :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


I even heard Flair call that ladder match 'Shawn vs a ladder', sorry Ric, but fuck off :angry:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah, the analogy that slights Hall can GTFO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

how dare you zep say that to the nature boy :lol, was about ask is that flair's video, in all honestly razor was a pretty good worker and that match is ***** imo, hbk/razor also have great raw matches as well


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> how dare you zep say that to the nature boy :lol, was about ask is that flair's video, in all honestly razor was a pretty good worker and that match is ***** imo, hbk/razor also have great raw matches as well


 Flair is up there with ANY of my faves, in the ring, love the guy, but he says some annoying shit some of the time IMO.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Can't see any conceivable reason why somebody would be bothered by the finish to Bryan/Cesaro. End of the day, Bryan is the guy getting the push here, not Cesaro. It was the perfect way to end the match imo and beautiful to watch too.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, I loved the finish. Kept Cesaro looking strong and gave Bryan a good looking win. Plus by the end of the match he'd been wrestling for about 30 minutes, where Cesaro was a little over 20 of that so I think it would've looked bad if Cesaro tapped out or lost to the diving headbutt or something. Perfect way to end the match imo.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

TLK's description of the Bryan/Cesaro finish is how I feel about it. (Y)

Also, I don't think there was one match on Raw last night that I didn't at the very least somewhat enjoy.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> So does anyone have a full review of Angle/HBK WM and/or Angle/Benoit RR?


If you can call it a review, I wrote this - 

Kurt Angle v. Chris Benoit (Royal Rumble 1/19/03)
So yeah, this was good.....until it wasn't. At first it was a pretty heated Chris Benoit trying to quickly win the title from Angle, and Angle was carefully but just as quickly getting the hell out of the trouble he was in. The Sharpshooter, no matter where you see it, is a pretty protected move. Bret Hart in WWF, Sting in WCW, Riki Choshu in New Japan - it puts dudes away. So I really, really dug Angle scurrying the fuck out of the sharpshooter attempts by Benoit because he knew it could be over if Chris locked it in. I was looking forward to a potential 'Angle escapes Benoit's stuff' story, but I knew I wasn't going to get it (b/c I've seen this before duh). So Angle gets on offense, and it's kind of boring. Apparently his idea of a hope spot/control switch spot is an Irish whip and a belly-to-belly throw. Yeah, I dunno, it just bugged me. Why, of every move you can use to change from defense from offense would you use that? It's not the move itself- he used a belly-to-belly when Benoit came running after him, and I found that OK because he's actually catching a dude. But getting up after eating offense and then using an IRISH WHIP + that move just seems so out of place. Angle's submissions are boring as well. All right he has a dude in a choke/grapeviney thing, but I didn't care. It's a smart strategy and everything, but 'smart' doesn't always equal 'fun to watch', especially when 'smart' is 'immobile'. He wasn't doing anything while in it, and I wander off to the knee brace that he's supposed to be milking an injury out of that is completely ignored the whole match. OK, I didn't like Angle in control, but fuck, I hated Angle AND Benoit in control. German > German > German German > German. If these were German ATTEMPTS I would applaud them. No reason that'd be a bother, right? But no, they hit them. Aaaaaaaand crossface > ankle lock > crossface, ankle lock > ankle lock > crossface, German, goes to top rope > Angle sprints up top rope for belly to belly (ugh) > crossface...yeah, I don't give a shit. I get done praising Angle for making the sharpshooter look vicious and something that warrants concern, and then they spam the crap out of finishers in a way that makes them look like they pretty much CAN'T finish the match with any of them. This wasn't the worst case of this (or close to it), and they did the spammy finisher trade better than most might do the spammy finisher trade, but I just hate a fucking spammy finisher trade. One of the worst things about this is the neat shit they did in between all of this stuff. In another moment and match, Angle reversing the crossface with the 'banana split' pin would have been a great spot. Benoit's gigantic 'Angle lands on his belly' suplex would have been a great spot. Benoit reversing the German with the leg-scissor roll-up thingy would have been a great spot. They were in this match though, and this is a match I thought would hold up much better. I won't feel much need to ever watch this again.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

_top 3 Streak matches_

3*)"End of a Era" Triple H vs Undertaker Hell in a Cell Wrestlemania 28*








*****1/2-3/4*

* 2) "Light vs Dark" Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker wrestlemanania 25
* 








********


1) "Streak vs Career" Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker wrestlemania 26*








*******

-Just in a incredible series( the streak) of matches, I am big advocate of the HIAC, I just love it, the build( the top feud of 2012 by far imo) the streak, Shawn as the ref, I know that gets alot of flake for being to dramatic, but did you expect Shawn to be the next Leonardo Di Caprio ? The drama and storytelling is off the chain in this match and I thought it was the greatest thing ever after watching it live, just a CLASSIC

- Not much more can be said about the hbk/taker matches than whats already been said, These two are both ***** and top 3 in company history with ONLY THEIR OWN HIAC match ahead of it REMARKABLE. 25 is more of a masterpiece , work of art with 26 having little better actual wrestling and the end of my favorite of all-times career.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

C2D, I wrote about the Orton vs. Ziggler August 2011 Raw match on pg 23 of the Bret Hart thread. Wanted to rep you this comment, but I've got to spread rep again.

Anyway, it's funny how much I liked that match, and you only have it in the seventies or so on your list. That bodes really well for some of your top matches!

To the person who was asking for great matches from this year: Speaking in terms of from Wrestlemania on, Ziggler/Del Rio at Payback and Bryan/Rollins on RAW are still my top 2 matches of the year from that point on (haven't gotten caught up on a lot of stuff from before then yet). 

I loved the ending of the Cesaro/Bryan match, but wasn't as into the entire match as most people here seem to be. My attention kind of drifted a lot, honestly. May have just been the mood I was in, though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> C2D, I wrote about the Orton vs. Ziggler August 2011 Raw match on pg 23 of the Bret Hart thread. Wanted to rep you this comment, but I've got to spread rep again.
> 
> Anyway, it's funny how much I liked that match, and you only have it in the seventies or so on your list. That bodes really well for some of your top matches!


lmao, the Bret Hart thread has turned into some blog for you where you post your opinion on various matches. :lol

Anyways, it's the best match they've had together and one notable omission from my list is their Night of Champions match last year. That one is usually the match of theirs getting the most hype but it's only really average.

As for the August 11 match, I remember watching it the day after it happened back in the "good ol' days" (wow, I'm already nostalgic about 2011 even though it was only two years ago) and was blown away by how good it was as a TV match. Didn't watch it again until I did my list and there, I was shocked by how short the length of the match was yet it held up fine enough to make the cut, in the 70s as well, which is great for a TV match that barely went 10 minutes IIRC.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I wonder who recommend that orton/ziggler match ? :hbk2

gotta stop using that smiley


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> lmao, the Bret Hart thread has turned into some blog for you where you post your opinion on various matches. :lol
> 
> Anyways, it's the best match they've had together and one notable omission from my list is their Night of Champions match last year. That one is usually the match of theirs getting the most hype but it's only really average.
> 
> As for the August 11 match, I remember watching it the day after it happened back in the "good ol' days" (wow, I'm already nostalgic about 2011 even though it was only two years ago) and was blown away by how good it was as a TV match. Didn't watch it again until I did my list and there, I was shocked by how short the length of the match was yet it held up fine enough to make the cut, in the 70s as well, which is great for a TV match that barely went 10 minutes IIRC.


LOL, no, just Ziggler matches for a bit, cause I'm talking to 'skins about them in there, in the midst of the Bret discussion. A little Flair somehow gets thrown in there too, lol. 

Yeah, I think that it hits every mark for a short tv match. It's amazing how his signature moves and vibe can seem so much more inspired, when structured properly. I guess it just comes down to having chemistry with someone. That intangible spark that makes everything flow together and fit together well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly do not think Orton and Ziggler ever had a bad match. Heck, I even liked the NoC match! They had a couple other good ones in 2011. I remember one on Smackdown.

Nice job, redskins on your list, and I am not shocked that :hbk conquered those top selections.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Royal Rumble 1997 looking alright so far from the two matches I've seen. HHH vs Goldust was a decent enough opener with Goldust spending most of the match working on Helmsley's left leg (which is also sold very well by HHH). Liked the finish as well with HHH just about sneaking a typical heel victory. All in all, a pretty good brawl with solid storytelling (as expected with the build up to the match). The second match sounds bad on paper with Faarooq and Ahmed Johnson squaring up but surprisingly, it wasn't very bad at all. Some good moments in the match like Ahmed Johnson catching Faarooq in mid-air with a powerslam and also Faarooq getting too arrogant which nearly costs him the match near the end. The DQ finish was meh. Not a fan of DQ finishes in mid-card PPV matches. Especially considering that weeks prior to this, the NOD have been interfering in matches so preferred a clean finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Give me Orton vs Kane matches & Dolph vs just about anyone else instead. Ugh, that series is oh so overrated. NOC match is awful.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I honestly do not think Orton and Ziggler ever had a bad match. Heck, I even liked the NoC match! They had a couple other good ones in 2011. I remember one on Smackdown.
> 
> Nice job, redskins on your list, and I am not shocked that :hbk conquered those top selections.


thanks man, was bored and was watching the streak dvd and was like why not. There are two things that stood out to me on the watching 1) how down punk/taker went, I mean its a good match but the pacing is off imo and has "on and off" feel. 2) was how high I went on edge/taker I use to HATE that match and everyone know that but my tasted in wrestling changed and so did that match

The hbk/taker wm series is crazy to me because there both ***** and that NOT even they best match TOGETHER, otherworldly stuff, 
-----

Not that high on the ziggler/orton NOC no structure imo, but their august match is money and if my memory is any good they also have a decent raw after rumble 12 match as well. I think it the one with Wade Barrett look from the skybox


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More people need to talk about the Mysterio vs Ziggler series from 2009 & 2010. Now those are some killer matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan doing a one-armed YES motion to sell the shoulder after the table spot adds 3/4* to whatever rating the gauntlet match was. I'd say at this point it's up to like ******1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last night I gave it ******1/2 & 2/3.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Opinions on Rock-Foley "I Quit"? I think the chair shots, while hard to watch at times, helped both men's characters develop in immense ways.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Opinions on Rock-Foley "I Quit"? I think the chair shots, while hard to watch at times, helped both men's characters develop in immense ways.


 ****1/4. The actual in-ring wrestling wasn't good but the drama, storytelling and mic work of both wrestlers were off the charts. It introduced a new vicious side to Rock's corporate champ gimmick and the story of how Mick Foley is fighting for his reputation and not quiting despite being handcuffed, being thrown off into breaker boxes and the multiple chair shots was told very well. Foley saying "You're going to have to kill me" just summed it up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@Cody couldn't agree more , thoses Rey matches are better than the dbryan IMO gonna give ss09 a watch right now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean > than Dolph vs Danielson matches? b/c that's another series between the two that I really, really enjoy. See, this only proves how Dolph vs anyone other than Orton & I'm down. 

DOLPH


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea, the dolph/rey matches are better than dolph/bryan matches, his 6/11 match with Orton wasnt bad iirc havent seen it since it aired. NOC is trash


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Admittedly, I don't really care for the Orton/Ziggler matches outside of the one weeks after SummerSlam 2011.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched Cesaro/Bryan again and I'd put it at ****, still. I still fucking love the roll up, especially how he got into it in mid-air when Cesaro threw him up. That's fantastic. I don't get why people don't like that.

Also, I remember liking the Ziggler/Orton matches from '11. I believe there were two.

Trying to figure out a project that I'll actually commit myself to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ECW 2007. 

It looks so bad on paper outside of some Punk matches that I have to know what was good & what was bad. I don't trust Elijah Burke anymore. Especially after I watched Judgment Day 2007. Feckin DUD of a match with Punk.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

ECW 2007 has MARCUS COR VON so I'll certainly consider it.






I'm having trouble remembering what happened at all for most of that year.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

HayleySabin said:


> ECW 2007.
> 
> It looks so bad on paper outside of some Punk matches that I have to know what was good & what was bad. I don't trust Elijah Burke anymore. Especially after I watched Judgment Day 2007. Feckin DUD of a match with Punk.


I remember Punk/Morrison (the one on Punk's Best in the World DVD) being quite good. Nothing else really stands out to me as being any good from that year. Punk's PPV matches that year were forgettable. I mean, the matches against Morrison were too short (and sloppy) to be anything all that memorable and the matches against Burke were just too long and dull. Come to think of it, Punk's really come a long way is his time in WWE when it comes to match quality.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Hayley, what did you think of the series of matches between Kevin Thorn and Stevie Richards?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watched the Trips/Flair Taboo Tuesday and Survivor Series matches. Wow, two brillant matches, with the LMS match being the perfect ending to that feud. 

No secret that Triple H excels in gimmick matches, more specifically Last Man Standing matches, and it doesn't matter if he's heel or face. His work in this bout vs Flair is no exception. The screwdriver ripping apart Flair's forehead looked damn brutal, exaggerated or not. Flair's selling here, as always, was top notch. One thing that Flair did in both matches was work over Trips' genital region, more so in the LMS match. 

Flair giving Trips the finger after the second pedigree (and before the third) all covered in blood is a fucking sight. 

Guess I'll get this Trips/Kane/Goldberg match from Armageddon 2003 out of the way now. Then on to his matches with Punk at NOC and HBK/Cena at Survivor Series.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brye said:


> Watched Cesaro/Bryan again and I'd put it at ****, still. I still fucking love the roll up, especially how he got into it in mid-air when Cesaro threw him up. That's fantastic. I don't get why people don't like that.


I marked hardcore man. I loved it. Great PPV quality match. 

I was thinking if Bryan wins at Summerslam a cool way to win would be Cena goes for the AA and Bryan holds onto Cena's arm and rolls him up. Sort of similar to last night's roll up. It would be better if he won with the headbutt off the top Dynamite Kid/ that one guy from Wrestlemania 20 style or the YES lock but we all know no way Cena will tap.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Flair/HHH:

TT- ***3/4
SVS- ***1/2

Been awhile since I've seen the SVS LMS one as I skipped over that match when going through my list a few months ago. Great matches though.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> The Sharpshooter, no matter where you see it, is a pretty protected move. Bret Hart in WWF, Sting in WCW, Riki Choshu in New Japan - it puts dudes away.


Don't forget The Rock. Kidding. 

As much as I love the main event of Survivor Series 2001 I to this day can't believe Angle tapped to Rock's pathetic excuse of a sharpshooter.


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Well, Angle is pretty pathetic as a wrestler. So it all evens itself out.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Fluze said:


> Opinions on Rock-Foley "I Quit"? I think the chair shots, while hard to watch at times, helped both men's characters develop in immense ways.


Great match but agree hard to watch. I loooooooove their last man standing match for the title. My favorite match between these two....loved the shit out of this feud. I was a Senior in High school and loved every second of it. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xziham_the-rock-vs-mankind-last-man-standing-match-14-02-1999-elgeel3-net_sport#.Ue9GE9I3vOs


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hmmm, three contrasting matches I just hit. I didn't dislike Trips/Kane/Goldberg as much as I thought I might. Sure it wasn't anything great, and Goldberg did his usual thing, with Triple H trying to use Kane to help do his dirty work, then he had some funny interactions with the Big Red Monster. Evolution gets involved and pulls Kane out after he hits the Chokeslam so Triple H can get the cover and regain the World title.

Triple H vs CM Punk is a pretty fun brawl, with some neat spots, including Punk backdropping Triple H over the little wall that was part of the entrance set. Trips' trash talk is pretty damn funny: "You got something to say about my wife now?" :lol Another funny thing is that Michael Cole lost his voice as this match started, so the commentary was just Lawler and Booker having a back and forth, which was interesting, and included Booker's famous "knee bone connected to the ankle bone" comment. Cole did manage to get in about four "Oh Man"'s whenever something crazy went down. The ending is so freaking stupid that it ruins my rating dramatically. First Miz and Truth run in and take both out, and are so focused with Triple H not being COO that they put Punk on top of him for the cover but the Game kicks out, and that leads to Miz and Truth trying to bully the great Scott Armstrong, who stands his ground and tags Miz with a sweet right hand. Then he gets his ass whipped, and everything falls apart from here. Johnny Ace comes down to check on Scotty, and Punk and Trips have had time to gather themselves and take out Miz and Truth, then Trips hits the Pedigree on Punk, has him covered while another ref comes down, but Johnny Ace won't let him get in the ring without checking on Armstrong, then Punk hits the GTS on Trips, the ref gets in, counts and Truth pulls Punk out (the other reason I can think of for this making sense is because Punk attacked Truth for interfering), and Punk hits the GTS on Truth and he's done. BUT THEN FUCKING KEVIN NASH IS BACK, and (to cut this short) hits the Jacknife on Punk, goes to the outside, and Trips hits him with the sledgehammer and his clumsy ass is out knocked out, Trips hits the Pedigree, after Punk is still hurt from the powerbomb, and wins. Damn, if not for the silly fucking finish, this could have been a four star bout, but I've got it at ***1/4. 

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs John Cena at Survivor Series 2009 is pretty freaking fun. Triple H takes the superkick like a champ. All three times. Lots of great moments in this match. I'm too spent from talking about the previous match finish to go into detail here, but I recommend that everyone watch (or rewatch) if you haven't seen (or don't remember) this.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Can't remember the Armageddon 03 triple threat at all aside from it happening.

Punk/HHH NOC 2011- ***
Cena/HBK/HHH SVS 2009- ***3/4

HHH sure does excel at triple threats.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Armageddon bout was one of the last "bad" matches that Triple H had for a while, because he was heading into 2004, and was working a ton with Benoit/HBK, and had some sweet Evolution tags. Thank God, too because the match quality of 2003 on the whole was just stomach-churning.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anyone have a link for the 5/20 Shield 6 man? The one with Kofi. I can't find it on dailymotion.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...-hell-no-and-kofi-kingston_sport#.Ue9f3zBBnbg

Daily motion.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Thanks bud.

EDIT: I watched some wrestling...

*John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (5/13/13)*
Watched this late last night and maybe I wasn't in the right frame of mind for it but I wasn't feeling it. Didn't get into it which was disappointing because I really liked their 4/29 match. It had its moments, notably a nice flurry from Bryan, but from bell to bell not a whole lot stood out to me as being more than just good. On the other hand there was the stuff I didn't like. Thought Kane's DQ elimination stunk. Liked the idea of him wanting to fuck The Shield up and getting DQ'd since they put Taker on the shelf and all that but he should've done more than hit someone with the announce table cover thing. That was weak. Don't even get me started on Cena getting the better of The Shield 1v3. Hated that. It's a solid Shield six man tag, but not one of their better matches. 

*Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)*
Held up strongly on a re-watch. Some people don't like it but I thought the change in dynamic with Brock getting hurt and being the vulnerable man and HHH going into Cerebral Assassin mode was great. Lesnar's selling was nothing short of brilliant. I'd comfortably call HHH's limb work good but Brock deserves a ton of credit for going above and beyond to make it seem painful, and it did. Particularly loved the spot where Lesnar tries to climb out of the cage and gets drilled with a chair shot to the injured knee. Talk about a definitive 'fuck you' cutoff. Good psychology, storytelling, action and individual performances (mainly from Lesnar but can't forget Heyman's contributions. HHH was no slouch either, he held up his end of the bargain). Excellent steel cage match. 

*Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)*
Man this was good. Like really fucking good. Opening moments were just kind of there but as soon as The Shield took control and isolated Kofi I was fully into it. That speaks volumes to how great their control segments are because Kingston isn't exactly a guy who I'm terribly interested in watching play face in peril. He didn't exactly do a whole lot here either but The Shield were on point, Reigns in particular. Then Bryan got the hot tag and what a hot tag it was. The whole Bryan being the weak link thing was a super little subplot to everything going on. Bucklebomb from Rollins was sweet. I've always enjoyed that spot but I thought it was extra choice here seeing as it kept Bryan in the corner of the heels and led perfectly into the second FIP/control segment. Kane's hot tag wasn't as electric as Danielson's but it was more than good enough. GREAT match. Stoked to watch the 5/27 tag in a bit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rock/Austin vs. NWO in 2002 was a lot better than I remember it being. Not as good as some other star-studded big tag matches (such as that Dallas 10-Man Tag in 2000), but still loads of fun. Hogan also did not make me vomit, which is always a plus. A shame that this is probably the only match on RAW in 2002 that was any good that did not include Chris Jericho or RVD.

Punk/HHH falls under the same category as HHH/Benoit from Vengeance 2004 as a really good match that was on its way to being a MOTYC, but then the overbooking killed it. If anyone were to watch either of those matches starting from the interferences, they would think that these matches were the worst things ever. Such a shame, because I'm sure that Punk and Triple H could have a true classic together. Undertaker and Punk were able to do it after disappointing PPVs, so why can't they?

Orton/Hardy and Orton/Jericho from RR 08 and Armageddon 07 respectively are so much better than how I last remember them. Heck, the Age of Orton title reign went from being something I thought I could never like to probably being one of my favorite world title reigns of the past ten years. You win this time, Choke2Death rton

Edge/Punk 4/25/08: ****3/4 - *****. Probably the best television match of Smackdown that year. Punk's second best match that year too behind MITB.

Also got to watch some MIDNIGHT ROCKERS featuring a 21 year old :hbk2. Match was Rockers vs. Somers and Rose in a cage. Weird match, because I am still not sure who was the face and who was the heel here, so I'll just assume the Rockers were the face :lol. Very good match that shows how a tag team cage match should be. A shame that the WWE has bastardized the cage.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)*
Another GREAT match. I liked this just as much as the 5/20 six man. Bryan was immense once again. His offensive flurries and FIP work are second to none and with the weak link story they had going here those qualities came to the fore maybe even more than normal. That explosion culminating in the top rope back suplex was nuts. Rollins was awesome in this too talking smack and using D-Bry's surfboard against him. I'm tired and lazy so I'll just say that this is a superb tag match featuring a spectacular Daniel Bryan performance and be done. Not even close to being caught up with everything. It's been an excellent year for TV matches.

1. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
2. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
3. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
4. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
5. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
6. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
7. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
8. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
9. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
10. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
11. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
12. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
13. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
14. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
15. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
16. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Mr Saint. Did you really rank that Jack Swagger vs Rio match? :

Glad some understand how those 2 had great chemistry. I know with some great time at MANIA they could have had an absolute classic. I do think too much time was given to HHH vs Brock.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Mr Saint. Did you really rank that Jack Swagger vs Rio match? :
> 
> Glad some understand how those 2 had great chemistry. I know with some great time at MANIA they could have had an absolute classic. I do think too much time was given to HHH vs Brock.


Great match. Loved the focus on the injuries and limb work.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Great match. Loved the focus on the injuries and limb work.


Yes, that's what really got me as well. Made a thread on it a while back when the match happened. I see you got Kassius Ohno v William Regal on there pretty high. I'll check that out.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ohno/Regal is must see.

Looking forward to Ziggler/Del Rio, Bryan/Rollins and some of the highly praised Cesaro matches. Hopefully I can get around to watching them tomorrow.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Looking forward to Ziggler/Del Rio, Bryan/Rollins and some of the highly praised Cesaro matches. Hopefully I can get around to watching them tomorrow.


It's very hard to find Ziggler/Del Rio at Payback in great quality online, but I found it for you:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/M2B4Ad2WoSA/

You might want to pause it and let the grey bar load some before you start watching.


And here's Bryan/Rollins from RAW:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10st4h_06-10-13-seth-rollins-vs-daniel-bryan_sport#.Ue-OJdjuDAl


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Ohno/Regal is must see.
> 
> Looking forward to *Ziggler/Del Rio, Bryan/Rollins and some of the highly praised Cesaro matches*. Hopefully I can get around to watching them tomorrow.


Regal's style is disturbing. He was tearing OhNo apart, but the OhNo had those impact blows which Regal sold pretty well. 

You won't be disappointed. Like most have said Ziggler vs Rio at PayBack was one of the greatest matches to witness this year. The booking of it was genius.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Seen some bad talk about Orton/Ziggler NOC. How fucking dare you :angry:

You wanna talk about shitty Ziggler stuff? Him vs Mysterio NOC. And vs Kofi SSlam. That was shit stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match vs Mysterio NOC was great.

C'mon man.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Meh. ...ok yeah it may have been good. Not great, good. To me, it just didn't click that much. May have beeen because I DETESTED Ziggler at the time. Idk, maybe I need to rewatch. I do know SummerSlam was WAY better.

And I personally think the 1st 1/2 of Cena/Ziggler 1/7 is probably the most underrated in-ring stuff this year so far.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good heavens no. That stuff was dogshit.

It's fun to watch WWE look like idiots when booking matches like that. Especially the first one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I said the 1st 1/2 of it, not the full match Cody


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well then son of a. Nothing like my phenomenal reading comprehension, huh?

Dolph vs Cena is usually another nice combo. Pardon TLC 2012 - on. Every match before that I've liked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. Phenomenal 

I liked TLC for what it was too. And didn't they have a match in 2010-11 on Raw that was champ vs champ? I remember something like that which was a good one too iirc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Night after TLC 2010. Their first match iirc.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I noticed a couple of people have had trouble getting good quality videos of matches from this year. I recommend using watchwrestling.net. It has, as far as i know, every Raw, Smackdown and PPV from this year. Plus some old WWE stuff, WWE docs, everything from TNA this year, everything from ROH this year and other indy stuff aswell (including CHIKARA :mark.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Just got done watching Over The Edge 1999 (I'm re-watching 1998-2001) and there was a point where I had to take a break from viewing it after JR announced the death of Owen Hart. Really, really tragic and it really points a damper on a pay-per-view that wasn't all too great to begin with. 14 years on, I still find myself very distracted after Ross makes the announcement when watching it. R.I.P Owen Hart!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Does anyone have a list of every **1/2+ match that the 'E's had this year so far?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never seen that show mostly by default of that moment. Not against seeing it. More along the lines of it wasn't ever stocked at the video stores I frequented in my youth, so it never was viewed. Pardon the first two matches, I haven't heard it is worth seeing; nor did I expect it to be with the tragedy that occurred.

I've seen the finish to Undertaker winning the WWF Championship for the third time. That's all I need.

EDIT ~ ATF I can compile a list of every match I've liked from this year. I'll do so later as I'm far too tired to be fussed with it, but it'll be posted.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

The show was poor in all honesty. Outside of the first two matches, I wouldn't rate any of the bouts above **1/2. Considering the quality of some of their later work, I was really disappointed in Rock/HHH. Obviously the tragedy overshadows things, though, and perhaps it was more a case of talent not been in the right mindsets to go out there and compete.

I did enjoy the opener though. Seemed to get a fair length of time and Mark Henry was never in the ring long enough to really drag the quality down. I quite liked Kane and X-Pac as a team, to be honest. Looking forward to going through more of their stuff now. The Hardcore Title match was fun, too, but then those matches always are more 'fun' rather than great bouts.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

This week's RAW: 

Sheamus/ADR- ***
Christian/Titus- **
Ziggler/Young- DUD
Cody/Fandango- *
Bryan/Swagger- *
Bryan/Cesaro- ***3/4
Bryan/Ryback- ***1/4


Oh and some great WCW matches

Sting/Great Muta- ****1/4 from GAB 89'
War Games- ***3/4 from the same show and
Flair/Funk- ****1/2


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Oh yeah, over the course of watching 1998-2001, I've decided that Kane and Stone Cold Steve Austin stuffing Paul Bearer down a sewer is one of the most hilarious things I've seen in professional wrestling. Bearer's reaction when Austin forces him to open a door backstage and Kane is in there is priceless.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Ohno/Regal is must see.
> 
> Looking forward to Ziggler/Del Rio, Bryan/Rollins and some of the highly praised Cesaro matches. Hopefully I can get around to watching them tomorrow.


Ziggler/Del Rio Payback is the best PPV match of the year so far for my money and only Regal/Ohno would be above it for WWE MOTY atm. Tremendous babyface performance by Ziggler, sinister and vicious performance by Del Rio, a number of intricate little touches to put over Del Rio's violent work and there's a great spot early on between him and Langston which I particularly loved. There's one great moment as well when Ziggler tries to rise to his feet and charge at Del Rio and he nearly plummets back down to the mat he's that disillusioned.

Bryan/Rollins was probably as good a match as they could have in context, given it was more of a sprint as opposed to a longer match with a more deliberate building pace. It was more an exhibition with some great counters and sequences by both including a great dual battle over the surfboard. Bryan/Ryback II & Bryan/Kane vs Rollins/Reigns 5/20 were better imo.

Cesaro/Kingston was really good and perhaps the best individual performance of the year by Cesaro. The first Generico match was a solid match which never really got out of first gear, but their rematch on 6/12 earned rave reviews and I'm stoked to watch it soon. He also has a supposedly great carryjob of Bo Dallas on an episode of NXT which is worth watching as a Cesaro showcase. Cesaro/Generico 2/3 falls was taped and will air on 8/26 and of course there's the Bryan/Cesaro match from Raw.

Cesaro/Sheamus 6/5 Main Event and a rematch on Smackdown also got pimped well in small quarters, albeit the Main Event encounter by all accounts was the superior outing.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Just watched Edge vs William Regal from Vengeance 2001. Pretty sweet 10 minute match. Regal plays the vicious heel as well as he always does and Edge sells his beating well. One moment I particularly enjoyed (although it's very minor), was when both guys are on the outside and Regal just chucks Edge back first into the ropes. It's weird ingenuity like that, that makes me appreciate Regal. Anyways, Edge manages to get some offence in which leads to him launching Regal out of the ring with both feet. Can't recall seeing that before, was pretty cool. Almost immediately after that, Edge takes a nasty bump into the steps, causing the ref to check on him. Regal, being the sneaky motherfucker he is, realises he can't win the title via countout, and so takes this oppertunity to grab his brass knucks from under the ring. One thing I will say, is that the fact that Regal did this, kind of nullifies their nearfalls because it's obvious that the knucks are going to play some sort of role in the finish but eh, that's a minor gripe. Overall I'd definitely recommend this match, worth 10 minutes of your time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Angle/Shawn at WM cause I was bored and I raised it up AGAIN in my consideration. While the psychology wasn't perfect, it did have plenty of decent selling (most of it obv. came from Shawn), and the ending's execution was straight up WRONG but it did stood a purpose - it was an exaggerated display of how much Shawn wanted to not lose and be inferior to Angle and being outperformed by him at WM. And that crossbody to the announce table spot was just SICK.

****1/4-1/2, undecided between either.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Kane was super over during certain parts of the Attitude Era. Got a great pop on the 'RAW is Owen' tribute show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson & Kane vs Rollins & Reigns Tag Team Championship rematch from RAW is a top five match; probably top three on the entire year. Match is brilliant. It's too bad we didn't get this on Extreme Rules. Some reason the PPV transition for The Shield out of trios hasn't worked.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Daniel Bryan Super Star Collection

I bought this for and 2 other DVDs for like $8 at at FYE. 


*Daniel Bryan w/The Miz vs. Chris Jericho w/Wade Barrett *

This was a really solid TV match. Jericho deserves a lot of credit for letting Bryan get in so much offense when Bryan was making his debut against the World Champion. It had a pretty basic structure with Jericho controlling early, Bryan making a quick comeback and giving a good effort before falling to Jericho. It wasn't anything amazing but it was a really good debut Bryan and a fun 5 or 6 minute match to watch.
***1/4*


_United States Championship Match:_
*The Miz(c) w/Alex Riley vs. Daniel Bryan
*
I was highly amused listening to Michael Cole saying that the Miz was the future of the WWE when he was in the ring with Daniel Bryan. This really shows how good Bryan really is. He comes out to no reaction and a pretty dead crowd and he goes on to win them over and get them to care about the match they're watching. The Miz did what he needed to do as the heel as he worked the arm and played a heel very well. He really is a natural as a heel. Bryan naturally sells the arm brilliantly. The finishing stretch was amazing and capped off the match perfectly. I won't say it's the best Miz match I've ever seen but it's pretty close. I wish Miz was still a heel because the history these two have along with their chemistry in the ring is something that WWE can always count on for a good match. This was the perfect choice for the DVD as it was a big moment early on in Bryan's career.
****3/4 *


_WHC Money in the Bank_
*Sin Cara vs. Wade Barrett vs. Justin Gabriel vs. Sheamus vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Heath Slater vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane*

This was well booked with Bryan just being determined and always being present on the lader in his attempt to get the briefcase. Well I liked the story they told with him this still suffers from a lot of the flaws that multi-man ladder matches have in WWE. I can't complain too much though as we saw a bunch of cool spots and there was a story told with the winner, the most determined guy was able to pull off the win.
****1/4 *



*Daniel Bryan w/The Big Show vs. Mark Henry*

Why a random singles match from Smackdown was included and not their cage match from the Christmas SD I don't know. This was good but it's just a teaser of what these two can do. It wasa perfectly fine David vs. Goliath match. Bryan was really good as an underdog and Henry was great as the monster. I just wish they had done more with making it look like Bryan a chance to win. Also the ending made it obvious that the whole point of the match was to advance the Big Show/Henry feud.
***1/4* 


_World Heavyweight Championship Match_:
*Daniel Bryan(c) vs. Mark Henry v. The Big Show*

On an unrelated note, the Big Show's daughter hiding from him when he went to put his hat on her was hilarious. 

So Henry wasn't too involved in match. If I remember correctly he was hurt going into the match and instead of taking him out of the match Big Show just beat the shit out of him and left him laying in the corner. This was a fun match because it's one of those matches where the champion, on paper, really has no chance of winning. That of course made Bryan sneaking out a win even more amusing. The match was really fun and everyone played their role correctly. 
*****​

Overall for less than $3 this was an easy hour and a half watch. It's a little dated becauce Bryan has had most of his best matches after all of the matches on the set but it's still a good collection of what he did in the earlier part of his WWE run.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Decided to go into CEX today while in town and ended up buying the Best PPV Matches 09/10 (blu-ray) for £5 and Raw's Most Memorable Matches for £1.50 which was pretty sweet considering the match listing:

Taker/Jeff Ladder Match 02
Trips/Flair WHC 03
Trips/Kane Mask vs. Title 03
Jericho/HBK 03
Benjamin/HBK Gold Rush 05

Also, if anybody has the shop HEAD in their area, UK of course, they are currently doing a buy 3 for £10 offer on all their PPV's dating back to 2004. They're all new and sealed as well. I'm not into collecting PPV's but for anybody who is I don't think you'll find many better deals than that.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Danielson & Kane vs Rollins & Reigns Tag Team Championship rematch from RAW is a top five match; probably top three on the entire year. Match is brilliant. It's too bad we didn't get this on Extreme Rules. Some reason the PPV transition for The Shield out of trios hasn't worked.


That tag match is superb and is basically what their PPV encounter should've been, but top 5 of the year is pushing it, let alone top 3. Just off the top of my head I'd have Regal/Ohno, Hell No & Kingston/Shield, Ziggler/Del Rio, Shield/Super best friends and Cesaro/Zayn above it and that's without putting any thought into it. Also I still haven't seen Mania or any of the pimped Main Event matches. I do need to rewatch a bunch of shit though (that tag match included), so I'll be able to have a much more clear idea of how I'd rank everything.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

My review of Extreme Rules 2013:

*Chris Jericho vs. Fandango*
Definitely better than their very sloppy match at WM. 'Dango seemed more confident here. They got a lot more done in less time, it looked like it could go either way, and the finish was awesome. Solid opener.

**3/4

*United States Championship*: Kofi Kingston vs. Dean Ambrose
Another short and sweet match. Non-stop action, Kingston looked like he could pull it off, and the finish made them both look great. Ambrose really is that good, and Kingston is always fun to watch.

***

*Strap Match*: Sheamus vs. Mark Henry
The theme of the night is short and sweet. This is nothing like their match at SummerSlam '11, but personally, I quite liked it. The match was suspenseful, smart, hard-hitting, and fun. Henry looked like a beast, Sheamus looked strong, there were some clever spots, and I liked the finish.

***

*"I Quit" Match: Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger*
What the hell was wrong with Mike Chioda?!? There were instances were after ONE move, he would shove the mic in the guy's face! I've never seen the ref ruin the flow of a match so much in my life. The match itself was fine. Del Rio and Swagger are both good wrestlers, work nice and stiff, and they had some nice exchanges, but those def "do you want to quit? do you want to quit?" just killed the momentum and the pace. And the end, a complete duplicate of the finish to Rock/Punk I, is getting old. JBL summed it up: "since when do we do instant replay?" The finish would have been cool without the replay.

**3/4

*Tornado Tag Match for the WWE Tag Team Championship*: Team Hell No vs. The Shield
You can never go wrong with Hell No/Shield. In six months, they always had good/great matches together. This is like a clip of the TLC match but without weapons. Plenty of action and nearfalls in only 7 1/2 minutes. Both teams looked great as usual.

***

*Extreme Rules:* Randy Orton vs. The Big Show
Nicely paced, Orton got huge pops for everything he did, Show looked like a monster as always. I like how Orton kept hitting the RKO to no avail. There were some sick spots, but this felt fairly personal. Great finish, to bring back the punt.

***1/4

*Last Man Standing Match for the WWE Championship*: John Cena vs. Ryback
This was like a classic attitude era brawl. They used a lot of weapons, hit some big spots, brawled all the place, but it was by no means a great match. You could see the finish coming a mile away, but this was still a lot of fun.

***1/2

*Steel Cage Match*: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar
As someone who wanted this dream match for years, I can now safely say that this feud, and these matches, were a disappointment. No one match was great. The SS match was solid, the WM match was better than people give it credit for, and I actually quite liked this match here. Lesnar's selling was great, HHH attacking him early was unexpected, and the finish closed the door nicely. Not a great cage match, though.

***1/2

(I gave the SS match ***3/4 and the WM match ***3/4)


All in all, this was a solid ppv. Like WM, though, it just felt the bare minimum to be good. None of the matches were bad, but none were great either. And nothing got a LOT of time, nor were they truly short-changed.


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

The cage match was soooooooo boring. I swear I've seen someone give it ****1/2 or something. CAN. NOT. COMPREHEND.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5


*Part 6 (180-161)*

*(***)
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21









179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998









178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990









177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988









176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999









175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003









174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007









173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7









172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999









171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005









(***1/4)
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16









169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011









168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012









167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009









166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012









165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010









164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009









163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001









162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989









161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time







*​*
*



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Nitro September 22, 1997 - Bill Goldberg vs. Hugh Morrus

Nitro September 29, 1997 - Bill Goldberg vs. The Barbarian

Starrcade December 28, 1997 - Bill Goldberg vs. Steve “Mongo” McMichael

Nitro April 20, 1998 United States Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Raven

Nitro July 6, 1998 - Goldberg vs. Scott Hall

Nitro July 6, 1998 WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Hollywood Hulk Hogan

Bash at the Beach July 12, 1998 WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Curt Hennig

Nitro September 14, 1998 WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Sting

Halloween Havoc October 25, 1998 WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Diamond Dallas Page

Nitro November 23, 1998 WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. The Giant

Starrcade December 27, 1998 No Disqualification Match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship - Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash

Nitro March 8, 1999 - Goldberg vs. Ric Flair

Nitro April 5, 1999 Fatal 4 Way Match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship - Goldberg 
vs. Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair vs. Diamond Dallas Page

Spring Stampede April 11, 1999 - Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash

Fall Brawl September 12, 1999 - Goldberg vs. Diamond Dallas Page

Halloween Havoc October 24, 1999 United States Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Sid

Halloween Havoc October 24, 1999 - Goldberg vs. Sting

Mayhem November 21, 1999, “I Quit” Match - Goldberg vs. Sid

Fall Brawl September 17, 2000 No Disqualification Match - Goldberg vs. Scott Steiner

Halloween Havoc October 29, 2000 2-on-1 Handicap Match - Goldberg vs. Kronik

SIN January 14, 2001 No Disqualification Match - Goldberg & Dewayne Bruce vs. Lex Luger & Buff Bagwell

Backlash April 27, 2003 - Goldberg vs. The Rock

RAW May 12, 2003 Steel Cage Match - Goldberg vs. Christian

Badd Blood June 15, 2003 - Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho

SummerSlam August 24, 2003 Elimination Chamber Match for the World Heavyweight Championship - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Randy Orton vs.Shawn Michaels vs. Kevin Nash vs. Chris Jericho

Unforgiven September 21, 2003 World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Triple H

RAW October 6, 2003 - Goldberg vs. Mark Henry

RAW November 10, 2003 - Goldberg vs. Batista

Survivor Series November 16, 2003 World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Triple H

WrestleMania XX March 14, 2004 - Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar

http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/match-listing-goldberg-ultimate-collection-i-95.html


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wilberforce said:


> That tag match is superb and is basically what their PPV encounter should've been, but top 5 of the year is pushing it, let alone top 3. Just off the top of my head I'd have Regal/Ohno, Hell No & Kingston/Shield, Ziggler/Del Rio, Shield/Super best friends and Cesaro/Zayn above it and that's without putting any thought into it. Also I still haven't seen Mania or any of the pimped Main Event matches. I do need to rewatch a bunch of shit though (that tag match included), so I'll be able to have a much more clear idea of how I'd rank everything.


I'm certain about this, even though I am a big fan of every match you listed. This lays out how many top notch matches have been produced by WWE all year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ywall2breakerj said:


> The cage match was soooooooo boring. I swear I've seen someone give it ****1/2 or something. CAN. NOT. COMPREHEND.


Fast paced spots and action =/ a great match.

Wrestling's about telling a story. Psychology is always important too. HHH/Lesnar SC has a GREAT dose of both of those _(eh, even rhymed)_.

But I guess to each their own.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I love that HHH/Lesnar cage match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, me too. Cage match was my favorite of the Brock vs Triple H series.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cage match between Lesnar and HHH was meh. It wasn't good like the SS match, but not awful like the Mania match.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH/Lesnar in the cage was comfortably the best of their series for me, though I don't dislike any of the matches. Mania probably the worst, haven't watched the Summerslam match since the re-watch a few days after the event. Though I like that too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The cage match is the only one from the Lesnar/HHH series I care for and would "keep". So glad they finally figured out how to put on a great match after the first two being average at best.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I liked them all, but that's because I'm a mark for both guys. Cage was probably my favorite, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Arnold Tricky said:


> Nitro September 14, 1998 WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match - Goldberg vs. Sting
> 
> http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/match-listing-goldberg-ultimate-collection-i-95.html


Love this match, can't wait to tell me mate about this set :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Buying the Goldberg set. Even if a few matches are questionable. Why did the Mongo match have to be his official PPV debut? It's so bad, haha.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Eddie/Rey Steel Cage SD 05: ****1/4.* Godfuckingdamn. These two worked the Cage match formula to near perfection. There was an atmosphere in this match where you'd legit think these two really wanted to tear each other's flesh apart with steel. It was just that damn heated. Eddie was GODLY in the agggressive, obssesed heel he played. And tell me someone who plays better the face in peril than good ol' 619. The psychology was spot-on, the crowd ate it up, and it was awesome. The ending I'm torn on it. It's both meh but sense-making since it happened exactly what it needed to happen for the feud to blow-off: Eddie finally pinning Rey. One of A LOT of good caged matches the 'E's had that year.

Oh, and btw, *imo one of the greatest heel promos of the decade*:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just go home,
ok so I watched benoit/angle rr 03 last night because someone brought it up, I use to have it a *****, After rewatching it i dont think Ive ever been so confused watching a match ever, it starts off good, but then just random shit, and it just loses all structure, tbh I could give it a rating, just so confused
----------
the ziggler/cena match from this 2013 could have been classic but Ill never give to shit about them, made ziggler look so weak yet he was going against the top dog, I mean Cena kicks out of what 4 zigzags and a fucking superkick ? really
-------
My MOTY List would be
1) ziggler/del rio payback
2) dbryan/cesaro 
3) cesaro/sheamus me
4) cesaro/ ziggler me
5) cesao / kingston
6) cesaro/ zayn 

then you got the dbryan sd matches with orton and christian and then cena/punk I guess


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

ATF said:


> Fast paced spots and action =/ a great match.
> 
> Wrestling's about telling a story. Psychology is always important too. HHH/Lesnar SC has a GREAT dose of both of those _(eh, even rhymed)_.
> 
> But I guess to each their own.


You don't need a fast pace or great highspots or great storytelling for that matter to create a very good pro wrestling match. Why make that point? Because I have a japanese guy in my avatar?  I am not going to give HHH/Lesnar a high rating because they did legwork and, according to Rah, did a callback to some Lesnar MMA match. I don't care. It's boring. My favourite match ever contains legwork. Hell, the whole middle portion of it is JUST LEGWORK. The problem with HHH/Lesnar is that, instead of making the monster Lesnar vulnerable, the injury just made him look like a bitch. PAUL I'M HURT HELP ME. I CAN'T BROCK HUNTER'S GONNA KILL YOU BAH GAWD WHAT DO WE DO KNOW!? I don't care. It's the typical HHH melodramatic bullshit that's turned me off many of his matches. And, of course, he had to do a "face delays victory to punish the bad guy and costs himself the match" spot to end the match. HHH comes out of the match looking like an idiot, Lesnar comes out of it looking weak. What "great storytelling" am I exactly missing? Fill me in. Maybe you ignored the fact every match he's been in for the last 3 years has at least one Pedigree kick-out and bought it as a great nearfall? Or maybe you bought the F5 which has been kicked out of twice since Lesnar's return? Does Heyman's presence itself warrant you rate a match much higher then you'd usually do? I don't get it. What part of the match is supposedly good? The Summerslam match actually had an interesting story to it. The Wrestlemania match was a very entertaining bumpfest. So I'm not biased against them or anything, I'm just curious why you liked it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hey redskins, is English your second language? No offense meant, just curious.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

People are shitting on Angle/Benoit now? That used to be a universally praised match.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Lady Killer said:


> People are shitting on Angle/Benoit now? That used to be a universally praised match.


I still love it and consider it one of the best matches of all time.

Sometimes I wonder if it's that people actually do change their thoughts on certain things, if it's that the people who used to love that match and make it seem universally loved have left the thread, or people are just being sheep.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Hey redskins, is English your second language? No offense meant, just curious.


Yea none taken and yea it is, I'm on my iPhone and kinda rush some of my posts so sound like shit my bad

@TLK yea it's just a odd match, I use to love it when I was younger. I may be in a minority but I thought hunter/lesnar 1 was the best of the series


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I think it's that people know it's universally praised, so they find things to nitpick and tear it apart, and believe that by calling it "awful," they're going against the grain. Just my two cents. I've noticed that with quite a few matches. 

edit - I'd have to go back and watch the Lesnar/Trips series in order, because I don't remember much about Summerslam other than the outcome.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

People's thoughts, opinions and tastes vary as they get older. When you're young and not fully clued into the aspects of pro wrestling and its intangibles (playing a face/heel, selling, build, pacing etc) its incredibly easy to focus solely on the characters first and foremost. When you get older and start to become aware to the aspects of the business and stumble upon more old footage what was once boring can become engrossing and likewise what was once the dog's bollocks might feel stunted and lacking in depth. 

Angle/Benoit was a favourite of mine when I saw it live, mainly because I adored Benoit since I'd watched WWE and wanted him to win. Then I took a break from wrestling for a couple of years and by the time I decided to get back into it I found myself reading thoughts from across the web and seeing people like Angle, HBK & others being criticised and then lesser known talents being praised (Finlay, Regal, Arn, Eaton, Morton, Murdoch) as overlooked great talents. Out of curiousity I took on board these new interpretations and suddenly found myself in agreement that some of my most favourite matches really didn't hold up, and that 80s wrestling and often more simple yet smartly worked matches felt more impressive to me.

I don't begrudge anyone who adores Angle/Benoit or any highly praised match which in other communities is thought of as subpar at best. For me though, it really has little discernable structure and the entire middle body of the match through to the finish feels overly choregraphed and minimises any drama or story that was building in the opening section of the match. I don't even particularly get the 'great wrestling' praise the match attracts, as I find Benoit/Finlay, Benoit/Regal and numerous other matches to have more impressive looking chain wrestling and mat exchanges than Benoit/Angle, heck I wouldn't even say their Royal Rumble match is their best in terms of chain wrestling as many seem to argue.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> People are shitting on Angle/Benoit now? That used to be a universally praised match.


In this thread, it seems to be the norm to shit on it. I'm still a fan, though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's a pretty great explanation. I do tend to agree w/Sandrone, though, that a lot of people see respected posters such as yourself knock a match such as Angle/Benoit and simply follow suit.

Not pointing any fingers, obviously.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> People are shitting on Angle/Benoit now? That used to be a universally praised match.


'Universally', but not for me. I hate that match's guts so Goddamn much. It's all a question of taste and subjectivity.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I hate kurt angle so that's my feeling on the whole situation


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd say anyone who can be seen as sheeping (and not in a good way :side: ) are usually those who can't articulate their thoughts. The sort of people who'll write 'HBK is overrated' in a thread in the WWE section and you just know from the tone of their post they couldn't construct a logical criticism of his work that didn't make reference to not drawing as well as Rock or Austin.

Age does really factor in though for me. When you get older you become more mature and it affects the programs and films you want to watch (i.e more serious dramas or slow films as opposed to pure action/fantasy). You become more respectful and curious about various genres and go in with a more open mind compared to yourself as a nipper/teenager where you're more impatient and thus a more spotty or high octane pace feels cooler and more visually impressive.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, totally understand. Like I said, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone who dislikes it. I just remember that match being highly regarded as one of the best WWE matches of all time the last time I was active on here, and now I'm noticing one by one that matches of this nature are being called DUDs and shit. Just interesting.

edit Again, good point, WOOLCOCK. Maybe I just refuse to grow up because I still like all the same TV shows I liked when I was a kid.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MY problem with Kurt Angle is he can be a "video game" wrestler a certain points, meaning he just does random shit most of the times, like the senseless angle-locks, the random German Suplexes just the whole nine

I do think HBk 2000s gets alittle too much flake tbh, yes his 90s run is so MUCH better ( better than anyone IMO) but he didnt just become a shitty wrestler all of a sudden


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> edit Again, good point, WOOLCOCK. Maybe I just refuse to grow up because I still like all the same TV shows I liked when I was a kid.


Not necessarily. More often than not the same characters can still influence you and immerse you in their work and again depending on how much variety you sample from other promotions/styles it can be simple to continue to appreciate the same style of matches even as you age. Obviously though as you get older typically you do begin to perceive and understand that there exists more than one promotion/style and that more than anything can alter perceived notions of what is good/great. Would I really have soured on Angle & HBK if certain folk hadn't written persuasive arguments with matches linked articulating their point? If I hadn't found the motivation to watch matches from promotions I hadn't heard of back when I last watched wrestling regularly would my viewpoint have changed?

In many ways you can't really define how opinions alter, it just really varies from person to person and how they approach wrestling as well as their time spent on the internet where diverse styles are only one click away


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Ziggler/Del Rio Payback is the best PPV match of the year so far for my money and only Regal/Ohno would be above it for WWE MOTY atm. Tremendous babyface performance by Ziggler, sinister and vicious performance by Del Rio, a number of intricate little touches to put over Del Rio's violent work and there's a great spot early on between him and Langston which I particularly loved. There's one great moment as well when Ziggler tries to rise to his feet and charge at Del Rio and he nearly plummets back down to the mat he's that disillusioned.
> 
> Bryan/Rollins was probably as good a match as they could have in context, given it was more of a sprint as opposed to a longer match with a more deliberate building pace. It was more an exhibition with some great counters and sequences by both including a great dual battle over the surfboard. Bryan/Ryback II & Bryan/Kane vs Rollins/Reigns 5/20 were better imo.
> 
> ...


I've seen Cesaro/Kingston twice and I still don't get what's so good about it. Maybe it'll be a case of third time's the charm. Sure Cesaro's awesome in it but the structure was weird and Kofi offered absolutely nothing. Thought it was a good match, nothing more.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm not one to think Angle is the best of all time, but I also don't think he sucks. I know people shit on him for his random moves and awful strutcturing of matches, but he always entertained me. 

For instance, why do people seem to loathe Angle/HBK now?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ Ive heard people against hbk selling of the ankle lock threw them off the match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

When he was in it for like 5 minutes? :lmao I can see that I suppose.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Saint Dick, I would also recommend the WHC MiTB Ladder Match from this year. It was fun all the way through, and you probably won't have a moment of boredom. The character work from Ambrose was great, and Rhodes looked like a star. I loved every bit of that match.




Wilberforce said:


> I noticed a couple of people have had trouble getting good quality videos of matches from this year. I recommend using watchwrestling.net. It has, as far as i know, every Raw, Smackdown and PPV from this year. Plus some old WWE stuff, WWE docs, everything from TNA this year, everything from ROH this year and other indy stuff aswell (including CHIKARA :mark.


Gonna bookmark this later, thanks!




The Lady Killer said:


> I just remember that match being highly regarded as one of the best WWE matches of all time the last time I was active on here, and now I'm noticing one by one that matches of this nature are being called DUDs and shit. Just interesting.


LOL, Shawn/Bret Iron Man match takes the cake as far as this is concerned. I remember that being so well-regarded, and now it's completely shat all over. I can understand not liking it, but one star, really? 



redskins25 said:


> I do think HBk 2000s gets alittle too much flake tbh, yes his 90s run is so MUCH better ( better than anyone IMO) but he didnt just become a shitty wrestler all of a sudden


Who gives him flak? From what I see, he's one of the most beloved on this board. 

I think that in addition to being great, he and Taker benefit from the fact that both old & newer fans have gotten to see a lot of their work in real-time, so therefore they're some of the favorites on this board. Both segments are able to appreciate them.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Saint Dick, I would also recommend the WHC MiTB Ladder Match from this year. It was fun all the way through, and you probably won't have a moment of boredom. The character work from Ambrose was great, and Rhodes looked like a star. I loved every bit of that match.


(Y)

I plan to watch the Payback and Money in the Bank PPVs in full.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I've seen Cesaro/Kingston twice and I still don't get what's so good about it. Maybe it'll be a case of third time's the charm. Sure Cesaro's awesome in it but the structure was weird and Kofi offered absolutely nothing. Thought it was a good match, nothing more.


I definitely liked it less than most in here, but tbh I enjoyed the odd structure by the end. When Cesaro trapped the leg on the apron I assumed that was the setup for his control segment only to then see them trade signature moves for big nearfalls and Cesaro then targeting the leg a few minutes later. It was definitely unconventional, seeing as the middle section with nearfalls more or less served to allow for the quick finish without a prolonged Kofi comeback, but given Cesaro's majestic dissection of the leg I'm relieved we weren't treated to a Kingston comeback since I can't envisage a scenario where he executes his offence whilst simultaneously selling, given the convoluted nature of his offence. It was certainly unique, but Cesaro's individual performance and the bulk of the match were good enough for me to see the appeal. Opening matwork was very unco-operative which I again liked as it represented more of a struggle rather than seamless counters which look overly choreographed.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm also another one that still really likes Angle/Benoit from RR 03. I guess most of that reason is because my favorite story in a match is something that resembles a competitive sporting event. I can definitely understand many of the criticisms attached to it (no structure, move spamming, spotfest), but I guess I never saw some of those things in the match as something that hurts my overall opinion of the match. I am definitely biased since the SD 6 era is my favorite in wrestling, and this match was more or less the climax of that time period. However, all the move trading and frantic motions didn't take away from the match for me; rather they added to my vision of what a "competitive sporting match" looks like. Granted, there are many other matches that do this better (Punk/Bryan, Angle/Undertaker NWO 06, Hart/Benoit), but I still enjoy what I got to see.

There are some other matches that are universally praised outside of these confines that I never got, but I found it surprising that folks here didn't like them too much just like myself (Edge/Cena matches, Austin/HHH 3SOH, Davey Richards). I don't really see too many in this thread that are sheep, but that is probably why I always come back here. All the differing opinions here helped me find great matches that I would have never checked out, especially since I only used Meltzer ratings to catch up with the wrestling I missed.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Damn you, WWE, for having me download your app to watch Cesaro/Bryan in full. Anyway, *Saint Dick*, I watched the Ziggler/ADR match from Payback a half hour ago so I thought I'd pimp it as means to get you watching those damn PPVs!


*Alberto Del Rio Vs Dolph Ziggler (16/06/2013)*
_I'm a little dismayed in Del Rio in that they structured his Raw match against Sheamus similar to this. Instead of the concussion, though, it was for Del Rio to work on the massive bruise that was painted, in constrasting colour, to Sheamus' ghost white leg. The narrative was there, yet Del Rio seemingly found himself side-tracked at times. Thankfully, however, that would not be a painful truth here. Instead, we're laid witness to a valiant, and well executed, hero-story in the face of an enterprising villain. The growth in sympathy, too, is quite astounding when you realise both men were portrayed in completely opposing roles when their feud started. For the hero, the champion's advantage (that Cole plugged heavily throughout Ziggler's entrance) was a coward's way out, and a move the newly reformed Dolph would not take. He knew, as Cole mentioned, that the title could not be lost via count-out, disqualification or even doctor stoppage yet he'd rather die in battle than tuck his tale in retreat. And die he almost did, as Ziggler's tremendous selling would have us believe. While prone to over-selling, Dolph would not stray here. Every detail that he portrayed was methodically crafted and layered beyond what you would normally receive. You could feel every ounce of pain, vicariously, through Ziggler's facials and find yourself arrested in compassion to his plight with the high-pitched screams and baby-like cries as tears rolled down his face. Yeah, this went up tremendously on a second watch._​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There are many matches universally liked that I dont. I really wanted to rewatch cesaro/kingston but I cannot find a link at all


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Lovely review Rah, echo those thoughts exactly. Del Rio always had a basic structure in his matches, but his control segments would feel so mundane and lacking in those little touches to compliment the work to really elevate the middle section as a pivotal point in the match. The Payback match just saw an air of sinister violence and contempt for Ziggler's well being that elevated the middle section of the match into a sense of palpable tension and there were so many unique and smart touches in Del Rio's performance that I'd never usually associate with him.


And I'll say it again, the coup de gras of this thread has always been the ability for diverse talk to take place with articulated thoughts and by and large a minimal amount of idiots flaming instead of arguing with intelligence and a persuasive tone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've always been weird with Angle vs Benoit Rumble '03. Only time I put it at "five star classic" was one random night I viewed it and perhaps it was the intense lack of sleep, but I loved it. Every other viewing pre & post that night I've never found the love for it. It's so meh that I can throw a dart at a wrestling show _(figuratively...)_ and 100% know there will be at least one match on that given night I think > Angle vs Benoit.

The only match of their's I still seem to enjoy is pretty much just WrestleMania 17. The cage match is my number one guilty pleasure match. I don't care about the lack of fluidity there. Fuck it; it's a random spotfest for TV to build up Austin screwing Benoit for KOTR. I don't take it seriously.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You know what, either i have forgotten, but i cant remember ever even watching Angle/Benoit RR2003, i remember watching the Rumble match. Ill have to see what i think of it as i have the PPV.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree about the competitive aspect, funnyfaces1, and that's why I like a lot of matches that some here deem boring or that some aren't too fond of.

Glad you liked Del Rio vs. Ziggler at Payback so much too, Rah.

I wrote a lot about it some here:


> Ziggler/Del Rio, and it's not even close. Had everything you could possibly want in a match, except probably could have used more extended technical wrestling, but whatever. It was great, and actually caused me to come online and comment. Best storytelling and psychology I've seen in ages in WWE, and Zigger's selling was top-notch. I think that the kiddies who are at the age where they're not sure if wrestling is real or not, will be totally sucked in with that performance. And those who know it's fake, will still equally find it compelling to watch. For me, that's a mark of a great wrestler.





> Good write-up, and I'm glad you zoned in on Del Rio's facial expressions. That was a subtle, unappreciated, thing, that helped make him come across as a different sort of heel than normal. I loved his "kill 'em with a smile", sort of a sadistic, heelish, vibe.
> 
> It all was really a thing of a beauty.





> My favorite was when Del Rio was beckoning for Ziggler to come to him, while Del Rio was on his knee in the corner....knowing full well that Ziggler couldn't come to him. The intensity that grows and grows in Del Rio's facial expression and mannerisms, while he's beckoning for Ziggler, is just a brilliant thing to watch. Brilliant performance.
> 
> I swear, it's little stuff like that, that is what makes me love wrestling, when wrestling is done that damn well.
> 
> ...


And I'm someone who didn't care about or know much about either guy before I watched that. I was just getting back into wrestling, and they stole the show for me. 

Such a shame that the writers haven't done more with Del Rio's character since then. They've just got him going out there and doing typical matches. They should really play up a sinister nature in his character. He could do that so well, especially combined with a somewhat sunny disposition before going into that type of mindset. I wrote a lot more about that here. 

He could be one of the more interesting characters, but they're dropping the ball. That Payback match showed me that he's got the goods.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I definitely liked it less than most in here, but tbh I enjoyed the odd structure by the end. When Cesaro trapped the leg on the apron I assumed that was the setup for his control segment only to then see them trade signature moves for big nearfalls and Cesaro then targeting the leg a few minutes later. It was definitely unconventional, seeing as the middle section with nearfalls more or less served to allow for the quick finish without a prolonged Kofi comeback, but given Cesaro's majestic dissection of the leg I'm relieved we weren't treated to a Kingston comeback since I can't envisage a scenario where he executes his offence whilst simultaneously selling, given the convoluted nature of his offence. It was certainly unique, but Cesaro's individual performance and the bulk of the match were good enough for me to see the appeal. Opening matwork was very unco-operative which I again liked as it represented more of a struggle rather than seamless counters which look overly choreographed.


I have a feeling I'll warm to it a bit more on another watch but I can't see myself considering it a MOTYC.

Work up the courage to sit through HHH/Lesnar III. I want to know what you think.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I probably will mate, should try and watch all the pimped matches to gain a perspective instead of resting on a preconception of what I'll think of it. Seemed to split opinion between people I generally trust with match recommendations (Bubz & Cody to name two) so that does have me intrigued on which side of the fence I'll land on.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're going to side with me.

:hayley3


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> You're going to side with me.
> 
> :hayley3


Might have to sample some Snakejuice for me to think highly of a 2013 HHH match mind, but stranger things have probably happened.

@ FunnyFaces - no worries. Duggan/Dibiase is absolutely quality and the more people who see it is only a good thing as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ Ive heard people against hbk selling of the ankle lock threw them off the match


Certainly that was a flaw. It had a perfectly acceptable purpose, so it personally doesn't bother me that much, but seriously enough that was past overkill.

To each their own. I, for one, am an advocate for Punk/Jericho PB tbh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Jericho from Payback is a match that I will take to my grave as a great match. Punk's transition to a full-fledged face here was done so well, and the two stories told in this match regarding him were fantastic. One of the best character expositions I've seen in a long time. That sequence which led to Punk's first GTS that barely hit, thus causing Jericho to kick out and making Punk unsure of himself, and then Punk going to the crowd for advice on what to do next because Heyman wouldn't help him (baw gawd what a long sentence!) is probably my favorite moment from any match this year. The surreal Chicago atmosphere and Jericho playing a heel for probably the last time in his illustrious career added even more to the match. Love this match to death.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I agree about the competitive aspect, funnyfaces1, and that's why I like a lot of matches that some here deem boring or that some aren't too fond of.
> 
> Glad you liked Del Rio vs. Ziggler at Payback so much too, Rah.
> 
> ...


it literally brings tears of joy to my eyes that everyone enjoyed that match, just phenomenal performance on both sides and MOTY by far imo

Evan whens that henry list coming out ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Jericho from Payback is a match that I will take to my grave as a great match. Punk's transition to a full-fledged face here was done so well, and the two stories told in this match regarding him were fantastic. One of the best character expositions I've seen in a long time. That sequence which led to Punk's first GTS that barely hit, thus causing Jericho to kick out and making Punk unsure of himself, and then Punk going to the crowd for advice on what to do next because Heyman wouldn't help him (baw gawd what a long sentence!) is probably my favorite moment from any match this year. The surreal Chicago atmosphere and Jericho playing a heel for probably the last time in his illustrious career added even more to the match. Love this match to death.


This exactly. The whole "Punk is not in it" story seemed kinda improvised, but fuck it, it worked for me. I'm not sure if Punk's at many points groggy performance was a work or not, but if it was (hop. that is), then he played it perfectly. And I liked how they incorporated their chain wrestling and counters and such to a very, very story driven match. Going by the motions or not, I dug it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I personally found Punk's face turn poor and half-assed. Here's a guy who spent months whining about the fans and insulting them, then he disrespects a dead man and gets his ass kicked for it, so he decides to go home and now suddenly, he returns in his hometown and we (Punk included) are supposed to forget the past year and he even listens to the fans and delivers to their satisfaction an extra GTS per their request?

That doesn't only apply to Punk, though. I could go on about how nonsensical most of the face/heel turns have been in the past year. Del Rio/Ziggler double turns is the exception and even there, Del Rio's face turn before it was sudden and made no sense.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

My first taste of the WWE App and I pretty much enjoy it. The only downside I've found so far (in my hour or so tinkering around) is that there is no ability to change the video quality. I'm assuming it streams at 720P as I have to pause it for a half minute before streaming. As someone who finds himself annoyed easily at advertisement, WWE makes spare use of such a feature and that comes as a breath of fresh air.

Still, 20 minutes of uninterrupted Cesaro/Bryan is well worth it.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Arnold Tricky said:


> [Goldberg DVD match list]
> 
> http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/match-listing-goldberg-ultimate-collection-i-95.html




What the sweet fuck is this? Where is the ladder match with Hall from Souled Out 99 :angry:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> What the sweet fuck is this? Where is the ladder match with Hall from Souled Out 99 :angry:


Could be a Blu-Ray exclusive


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Meltzer gave Punk/Jericho ****1/2 yo. Its factually a masterpiece, deal with it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Favourite SS teams, folks?

Mine has to be Team Andre in 1989. Despite Dino Bravo, you had Andre, Rude, Hennig and Harley. BADASS.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rah said:


> My first taste of the WWE App and I pretty much enjoy it.


I like the WWE App :argh:

:cole3

Haven't seen Payback yet. Doubt I will.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Favourite SS teams, folks?
> 
> Mine has to be Team Andre in 1989. Despite Dino Bravo, you had Andre, Rude, Hennig and Harley. BADASS.


*Powers of Pain, Rockers, British Bulldogs, Hart Foundation & Young Stallions vs. Demolition, Brain Busters, Bolsheviks, Fabulous Rougeau Brothers & Los Conquistadores (w/Mr. Fuji, Bobby Heenan & Jimmy Hart)*

The '88 SS match is fucking all kinds of AWESOME :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Favourite SS teams, folks?
> 
> Mine has to be Team Andre in 1989. Despite Dino Bravo, you had Andre, Rude, Hennig and Harley. BADASS.


The first that comes to mind is Team Angle from 2003. Angle, Benoit, Cena, Bradshaw and... Bob Holly. Four are awesome and one is alright.


----------



## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

ATF said:


> Favourite SS teams, folks?
> 
> Mine has to be Team Andre in 1989. Despite Dino Bravo, you had Andre, Rude, Hennig and Harley. BADASS.












The best team ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, was about to mention the 2003 one, with Angle/Brock etc.  

How about The Radicalz in 2000.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've tried so hard to like Goldberg, but even as a kid, I just always hated him. I hate dominant faces with a passion, even if they were as badass as Goldberg. Same thing with face Lesnar; hated him too. In addition, the only matches of Goldberg's that I ever liked were the La Parka squash (thanks YEAH1993), the Henry RAW match, all the DDP classics, and the man that is carrying a tiger in this video.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I've tried so hard to like Goldberg, but even as a kid, I just always hated him. I hate dominant faces with a passion, even if they were as badass as Goldberg. Same thing with face Lesnar; hated him too. In addition, the only matches of Goldberg's that I ever liked were the La Parka squash (thanks YEAH1993), the Henry RAW match, all the DDP classics, and the man that is carrying a tiger in this video.


Ignore list updated. :angry:





Joke


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@ rep - I agree, the Ziggler/Del Rio Payback storyline didn't really need a lot of a technical wrestling. I just wrote that first post in the immediate aftermath of the match, and was thinking of what would be one thing a person could possibly criticize about that match if they were looking for a criticism. After re-watching, I realized that even that wouldn't really even need to apply, because of what we're saying here. It didn't need it.

ATF, I'm enjoying your main event list.



redskins25 said:


> it literally brings tears of joy to my eyes that everyone enjoyed that match, just phenomenal performance on both sides and MOTY by far imo


@ your PM, I thought you knew I loved that match! In fact, I was the one who told you you definitely needed to see it, the night that Payback was on.

It's funny how my only thought when that match came on was "oh, hey, that's redskins' guy." And then I was totally engrossed. Great match!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sure i gave Del Rio/Ziggler @ Payback ****1/4, loved that match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> How about The Radicalz in 2000.


You mentioned this which reminds me of R-Truth. Funny to think he's one of the biggest jobbers in the roster but he's been in the ring with the likes of Benoit, Eddie, HHH and The Rock.

I also don't get Goldberg's appeal. He's so one-dimensional and simplistic. About every match of his is the same. I can understand that he has the charisma and bad-ass aura that makes him enjoyable for so many, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> You mentioned this which reminds me of R-Truth. Funny to think he's one of the biggest jobbers in the roster but he's been in the ring with the likes of Benoit, Eddie, HHH and The Rock.


I remember watching Royal Rumble 2001 (i think), and thinking to myself "Isn't that R-Truth"?, forgot what gimmick he had then, i totally forgot he was in WWF previously.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Smackdown! Survivor Series team is my favourite. Eddie was orginially meant to be in this match but he sadly passed away which meant Orton replaced him (who also became the sole survivor of the match). Everyone in that Smackdown! team is awesome apart from Lashley 

Team Orton in SS 2004 was also a good team. Maven, Orton, Jericho and Benoit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I remember really liking the 2004 SS match, but then a couple of people here shat on it a bit, ill have to go and rewatch that one, along with a few other. Thanks ATF


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I remember watching Royal Rumble 2001 (i think), and thinking to myself "Isn't that R-Truth"?, forgot what gimmick he had then, i totally forgot he was in WWF previously.


K-Kwik.



zep81 said:


> I remember really liking the 2004 SS match, but then a couple of people here shat on it a bit, ill have to go and rewatch that one, along with a few other. Thanks ATF


I've only heard good things about the 04 SVS match. I thought I'm one of its lesser fans actually. Rating it 3 and a half.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The face team from Raw '03 is my favorite SS team. HBK, my favorite of all time. Dudleyz, my favorite tag team of all time. RVD, only of my favorites, especially at the time. And Booker who I always at least somewhat liked.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No love for Team WWF vs Team Alliance?

WWF: Rock, Jericho, Taker, Kane, Big Show
Alliance: Austin, Angle, RVD, Booker, Shane

Sure, Show and Shane let the teams quality down a bit, though Shane is too damn entertaining to be a bad thing. That's still my favourite traditional SS match, too.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

ATF said:


> Favourite SS teams, folks?
> 
> Mine has to be Team Andre in 1989. Despite Dino Bravo, you had Andre, Rude, Hennig and Harley. BADASS.


The team of Orton, Rhodes, Regal, Shelton and Henry in 2008 is a personal favorite. Team WWF in 2001 is brilliant as well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

All this talk of teams makes me hope that we get a proper Survivor Series tag this year with something significant on the line. The obvious one is Team Vince vs. Team HHH of some sort. The last good one we get was Team WWE vs. Nexus 3 years ago.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Okay then, who would the teams consist of?

Team Vince: Lesnar, heel Orton, The Shield
Team HHH: Cena, Bryan, HHH, Punk, Sheamus

Survivors: :brock rton2


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I feel like Curtis Axel would sadly be involved if Heyman/Lesnar were part of a team. Not sure where he'd fit in though. To be fair, those two teams you posted would be pretty damn awesome. I'd be hyped for that.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I would replace Sheamus with Ziggler but thats just a personal preference.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Agreed, Sheamus is HHH's buddy though so him being there would make sense.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> I think it's that people know it's universally praised, so they find things to nitpick and tear it apart, and believe that by calling it "awful," they're going against the grain. Just my two cents. I've noticed that with quite a few matches.


IDK if anybody was talking about anybody else in particular but I've wrote whole bunch why I think part of that match is rubbish. I used to love the match too and I obviously don't go around calling every match universally praised 'awful', nor, to some belief, do I call every Angle match 'awful'. :side: But if someone's saying that there are people disliking this just because they're going against the grain, then obviously they'd think they don't actually really dislike it? I'm not going to say nobody ever has stopped liking that match because they want to follow a certain 'crowd' who also doesn't like it, but it's almost just as easy to say everybody liked it originally because Meltzer gave it ****3/4 or whatever. Which I'm not saying, but I'm saying it's just as easy to say THAT about someone as it is to say they don't like a match any more because of other people. 

I don't really think it's an awful match overall, but the finish stretch is awful. There's like, no selling involved whatsoever. None. Angle does a German. Benoit gets up, does a German (doesn't sell Angle's well, if at all). Angle returns the favour and does TWO Germans. Benoit no sells that and puts the crossface on.....this goes for a while and it's the kind of match Davey Richards must have looked at and gone 'I WANT TO BE A PRO WRESTLER!' I'd think the match is perfectly fine if they didn't spam the shit out of their finishers and make it look like none of their moves were good enough to even damage each other. 



WOOLCOCK said:


> I found myself reading thoughts from across the web and seeing people like Angle, HBK & others being criticised and then lesser known talents being praised (Finlay, Regal, Arn, Eaton, Morton, Murdoch) as overlooked great talents. Out of curiousity I took on board these new interpretations and suddenly found myself in agreement that some of my most favourite matches really didn't hold up, and that 80s wrestling and often more simple yet smartly worked matches felt more impressive to me.


This plays a part. Sort of. I'm not sure how I can FULLY explain it, but it's almost as if when you get into a certain other 'style' (era/time/company/etc) or wrestling, you'll notice things about the wrestling you solely watched at one point that start to bother you. I mean I first got into Japanese/Mexican wrestling in 2008/9 and still like Benoit/Angle (HELL, I STILL liked Benoit/Angle before my most recent watch a few months ago. I didn't remember the finish trade being so shitty, so I was actually surprised when I watched it that it was done in that way). I saw Japanese and Mexican guys no sell and it didn't bother me. Then it kind of started to....somewhere. I don't know where. I'm not sure why I'm even quoting this because I'm not sure it's the point I want to make, but I can't help but think that watching different things soured my taste on other things and made me like whatever it is I like. I hope that doesn't sound pretentious or snobby or anything, and I'm not even sure it's what I'm trying to say, but IDK. I didn't magically stop getting bothered by no selling when I watched my first Blue Panther match, so maybe it doesn't play the big part I think it might, but even if a small part, I think it's a part. It's hard to explain and I'm not positive I even mentioned what I wanted to in this paragraph. I guess in summary I'll say 'it didn't bother me until it did'.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I don't begrudge anyone who adores Angle/Benoit or any highly praised match


Also obviously this. I'm obviously not going to tell anybody why they're stupid for liking it. 



The Lady Killer said:


> For instance, why do people seem to loathe Angle/HBK now?


I just thought it was boring. I'd love to watch it again and give it a proper 'review' since my memory doesn't do me too well whenever I'm asked what's bad about it, but, well....that'd involve watching again.  Does Cody have a write up of this? I'm pretty sure he doesn't like it.

HOOOOLY fuck WOOLCOCK got his own emoticon!!!! :woolcock



Arnold Tricky said:


> RAW October 6, 2003 - Goldberg vs. Mark Henry
> 
> http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/match-listing-goldberg-ultimate-collection-i-95.html


:hb


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK if anybody was talking about anybody else in particular but I've wrote whole bunch why I think part of that match is rubbish. I used to love the match too and I obviously don't go around calling every match universally praised 'awful', nor, to some belief, do *I call every Angle match 'awful*'. :side: But if someone's saying that there are people disliking this just because they're going against the grain, then obviously they'd think they don't actually really dislike it? I'm not going to say nobody ever has stopped liking that match because they want to follow a certain 'crowd' who also doesn't like it, but it's almost just as easy to say everybody liked it originally because Meltzer gave it ****3/4 or whatever. Which I'm not saying, but I'm saying it's just as easy to say THAT about someone as it is to say they don't like a match any more because of other people.
> 
> I don't really think it's an awful match overall, but the finish stretch is awful. There's like, no selling involved whatsoever. None. Angle does a German. Benoit gets up, does a German (doesn't sell Angle's well, if at all). Angle returns the favour and does TWO Germans. Benoit no sells that and puts the crossface on.....this goes for a while and it's the kind of match Davey Richards must have looked at and gone 'I WANT TO BE A PRO WRESTLER!' I'd think the match is perfectly fine if they didn't spam the shit out of their finishers and make it look like none of their moves were good enough to even damage each other.


Yea my take on angle/benoit ( I watched it last night) is the first 12-15 mins are pretty good, clean and crisp, but then the match just confuses me, like the random moves performed out of nowhere. I just got lost in what they were trying to do. Saying that its not a "awful" match it just confuses me a tad.

@Yeah1993 haha the bolded part was me, no shame in admitting it, but after thinking about it, tbh I started watching wwe "full-time" late in the ruthless aggression era so I got to see late 04-beyond angle, havent watched his 01-03 stuff so maybe I dont have the right to judge him


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd say that Angle's work in 2000-2002 was some of the best stuff of his career, especially his match with Austin at SummerSlam 01.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Kurt Angle debate is interested, I must say. I don't think I know a wrestler who was once in the same bracket as Benoit but now is called a 'pathetic' or 'awful' wrestler by some. Trust me, there are quite a number of people who say that about him.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm a huge Angle mark and he's one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, but I will admit that the criticisms some give him aren't unfounded (although they do get pretty extreme).


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

Why the hate on Angle-Benoit RR 2003? It's far from the best example of Angle sucking in a pro wrestling match. I thought he was actively good in it the last time I watched it. Would go ***3/4 for the match. He had a match with Jeff Hardy in 2010 that's legit one of the worst matches ever. But I guess it's TNA and no one saw it so it doesn't count...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

2001 Team WWF- The Rock, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker, Kane Big Show

or

1987- Randy Savage, Jake Roberts, Ricky Steamboat, Brutus Beefcake, and Jim Duggan 

or 

1988- The Powers of Pain (The Warlord and The Barbarian), The Rockers (Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty), The British Bulldogs (Davey Boy Smith and Dynamite Kid), The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart and Jim Neidhart), and The Young Stallions (Jim Powers and Paul Roma)


That 1988 tag match is buckets of fun

As for Angle/Benoit they had amaaaaaaaazing chemistry. Love their RR 2003 match (thought the ending was sweet and think it would be a good way to open the Crossface movie) and Backlash 2001.

I know a lot of people hate Angle and think he is a spot monkey but I'm a fan. Like him or not No Way Out 2006 with Undertaker is one of Taker's best matches ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Might have to sample some Snakejuice for me to think highly of a 2013 HHH match mind, but stranger things have probably happened.
> 
> @ FunnyFaces - no worries. Duggan/Dibiase is absolutely quality and the more people who see it is only a good thing as far as I'm concerned.


Exactly what I knew you'd say. Hell, I even thought the same. But you know what? Triple H added about 0% to the match. It was all Lesnar. And Heyman. They made it great.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Jericho from Payback is a match that I will take to my grave as a great match. Punk's transition to a full-fledged face here was done so well, and the two stories told in this match regarding him were fantastic. One of the best character expositions I've seen in a long time. That sequence which led to Punk's first GTS that barely hit, thus causing Jericho to kick out and making Punk unsure of himself, and then Punk going to the crowd for advice on what to do next because Heyman wouldn't help him (baw gawd what a long sentence!) is probably my favorite moment from any match this year. The surreal Chicago atmosphere and Jericho playing a heel for probably the last time in his illustrious career added even more to the match. Love this match to death.


Match was a pile of fledgling BS for me. Story behind it was solid, although the work in the match was so, so bad. Boring/uninteresting mat work for about ten minutes then it's time to no sell everything and go for finishers for the next fifteen.



Yeah1993 said:


> I just thought it was boring. I'd love to watch it again and give it a proper 'review' since my memory doesn't do me too well whenever I'm asked what's bad about it, but, well....that'd involve watching again.  Does Cody have a write up of this? I'm pretty sure he doesn't like it.


Never liked it. 

Really should do a write up on it just to bury the hell out of it for shits & giggles.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

If I had a cock made of wool I'd be really uncomfortable.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Fuck it, I'm watching Angle/Benoit RR '03 right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No plugs for Sheamus vs Swagger yet. I'll pop off and check that sucker out soon. Even with a five minute span I'm expecting a nice gem to come through. It's on Main Event so the silver lining is it may get enough time to develop nicely.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm watching the Best of Macho Man collection. Just watched the Savage/Hart V Flair/HBK match. Sooooooo good. 

Savage V Yoko on Raw for the title a few weeks before Mania 10 was actually really good. I remember being so pissed Crush interfered costing Savage the title haha. Hey I was 12.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Swagger/Sheamus was sweet, ***1/2 in my opinion


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Radical.

Drew McIntyre had one good match with Sin Cara _(iirc)_ and ever since then that's about the only guy Drew ever gets to work average length matches with these days. Why, WWE? Why? (N)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Fuck it, I'm watching Angle/Benoit RR '03 right now.


I think you mentioned you were gonna watch Shield vs. Hell No and Kofi yesterday (I think). What were your thoughts on that?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So apparently Ziggler and Langston had a really good dark main event match during the SD tapings. Let us hope that this is the match for Summerslam instead of a mixed tag. 

Swagger and Sheamus always had good matches together. Not a surprise though considering who Sheamus is.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

There's always one guy on a Survivor Series team that just stops it from being the perfect team. Like I was looking at 2004 Survivor Series and I see.... Orton, Benoit, Jericho, and..... Maven.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Yeah, Del Rio stopped Team Punk from being great for me last year.

Edit: Before the injury to Rhodes. Clearly I wouldn't include Otunga on a great team.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maven got demolished by the man in your avatar. You should like it solely for that. :hayley3

Maven wasn't special, although at the time the fresh approach to a lad who actually was over with fans was something I supported. Next night he had a fun - albeit overbooked - match vs Triple H for the World Championship. Now I'm stuck realizing how I miss the brand splits.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I legit hated Maven.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Snitsky's yell and kick on Maven backstage was hilarious.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK if anybody was talking about anybody else in particular but I've wrote whole bunch why I think part of that match is rubbish. I used to love the match too and I obviously don't go around calling every match universally praised 'awful', nor, to some belief, do I call every Angle match 'awful'. :side: But if someone's saying that there are people disliking this just because they're going against the grain, then obviously they'd think they don't actually really dislike it? I'm not going to say nobody ever has stopped liking that match because they want to follow a certain 'crowd' who also doesn't like it, but it's almost just as easy to say everybody liked it originally because Meltzer gave it ****3/4 or whatever. Which I'm not saying, but I'm saying it's just as easy to say THAT about someone as it is to say they don't like a match any more because of other people.
> 
> I don't really think it's an awful match overall, but the finish stretch is awful. There's like, no selling involved whatsoever. None. Angle does a German. Benoit gets up, does a German (doesn't sell Angle's well, if at all). Angle returns the favour and does TWO Germans. Benoit no sells that and puts the crossface on.....this goes for a while and it's the kind of match Davey Richards must have looked at and gone 'I WANT TO BE A PRO WRESTLER!' I'd think the match is perfectly fine if they didn't spam the shit out of their finishers and make it look like none of their moves were good enough to even damage each other.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with all of this. Wasn't trying to start a shitstorm earlier or call anyone out, just stating an observation. You guys are definitely more knowledgeable than I, so I was eager to get some feedback. 

:woolcock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I legit hated Maven.


but he was the Tough Enough kid. What dreams are made of.

Then John Hennigan won. I had a new favorite.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I still like Hennigan


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Maven's career Highlight for me will always be the Popcorn beatdown from Taker.

Never gets old.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> I totally agree with all of this. Wasn't trying to start a shitstorm earlier or call anyone out, just stating an observation. You guys are definitely more *knowledgeable than I,* so I was eager to get some feedback.
> 
> :woolcock


Thanks man that means alot to me :lol

Anyways this my be an unpopular opinion in this thread ,IDK havent brought it up before but I actually really like Bret/Shawn svs 97, its an extremely fun little brawl and if it wasnt interrupted with the famous abrupt ending, this could have been one of the GOAT matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Morrison is still the MAN.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lol I'm serious I'm just a casual fan now. You guys often talk about shit that's over my head although I try to contribute when I can.

And I also enjoy SS 97 for the record.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Thanks man that means alot to me :lol
> 
> Anyways this my be an unpopular opinion in this thread ,IDK havent brought it up before but I actually really like Bret/Shawn svs 97, its an extremely fun little brawl and if it wasnt interrupted with the famous abrupt ending, this could have been one of the GOAT matches


Agreed. Very entertaining until the screwing. I hated HBK for a long time after that.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> I think you mentioned you were gonna watch Shield vs. Hell No and Kofi yesterday (I think). What were your thoughts on that?


I posted this about it:

Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
Man this was good. Like really fucking good. Opening moments were just kind of there but as soon as The Shield took control and isolated Kofi I was fully into it. That speaks volumes to how great their control segments are because Kingston isn't exactly a guy who I'm terribly interested in watching play face in peril. He didn't exactly do a whole lot here either but The Shield were on point, Reigns in particular. Then Bryan got the hot tag and what a hot tag it was. The whole Bryan being the weak link thing was a super little subplot to everything going on. Bucklebomb from Rollins was sweet. I've always enjoyed that spot but I thought it was extra choice here seeing as it kept Bryan in the corner of the heels and led perfectly into the second FIP/control segment. Kane's hot tag wasn't as electric as Danielson's but it was more than good enough. GREAT match. Stoked to watch the 5/27 tag in a bit.

And then:

Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
Another GREAT match. I liked this just as much as the 5/20 six man. Bryan was immense once again. His offensive flurries and FIP work are second to none and with the weak link story they had going here those qualities came to the fore maybe even more than normal. That explosion culminating in the top rope back suplex was nuts. Rollins was awesome in this too talking smack and using D-Bry's surfboard against him. I'm tired and lazy so I'll just say that this is a superb tag match featuring a spectacular Daniel Bryan performance and be done. Not even close to being caught up with everything. It's been an excellent year for TV matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Im joking with you TLK, yea I feel the same way, some of theses guys in this thread can write 4 paragraph posts on a 10 minute squash man, its insane


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I need to go back and watch those Shield 6 man tags. 

Cody, we're going to Summerslam.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret/Shawn at SS 97 was on its way to be the third five star match of 1997 until the fuckery happened. One of the best brawls I have ever seen in the WWE. *****1/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cody, we're going to Summerslam.


:mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Gonna pick up tix tonight. Fuck it. See you in a couple weeks.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

EPIC! WRESTLINGFORUM taking over Summerslam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Cena & Punker vs Lesnar.

Dude, I can't contain it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

CODY & TLK SIDE BY SIDE. STAPLES CENTER WON'T KNOW WHAT HIT IT.

Too bad I can't flirt with Lillian again.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

God I gotta get to a PPV. next one in the Midwest I'll try and go to.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

BUYRATES WILL BE INSANE


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe you can walk close by the timekeepers area before the show begins and see if she remembers you. I bet she does.

Think this calls for more original signs. If they can get on camera that is.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Haha whats the Lillian story?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

GREG/CODY MAKE SIGNS PLZ

Will mark the fuck out if MORRISON OWNS makes TV again.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Haha whats the Lillian story?


She wanted to fuck TLK at the last event he went to.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

_"If Orton cashes in, we won't riot b/c we don't care enough to, but we'll all be really upset at the product."_

That can fit, right?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

You can see my buddies sign at the Raw in KC a few weeks ago.....one side says RAW misses Punk....other side said Push Heath Slater

Just read Elimination Chamber is rumored to be at target center in Minneapolis. If so I might need to hit that up. Only a few hours away. 

We are getting a new arena that opens this fall. Hoping for a Raw in 2014. If so I will go all out tickets wise.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Might give the WOOLCOCK sign another go :woolcock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Stannis 3:16 is probably the best non-TLK sign I've seen all year. 

I should make another "Saba Simba" sign. Haven't seen once since 1997.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Lol @ Saba Simba

How about a sign that says...

Gobbledy Gooker?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TLK = GOAT or Yeah1993 may need to make another appearance.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

#TeamColonelMustafa


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Perhaps shout out to my other favorite posters.

SAINT DICK sign.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

TLK....good luck this time around with Lillian....shes a babe


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I hope Morrison comes back. I'm not sure if he should be a main eventer though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 please. I'll crack up seeing it in person; no lie.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed Jose.

Edit


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody and Other Greg at summerslam haha thats the main event right there


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Morrison as an upper card player - perhaps a Sheamus type role - would be great in my eyes.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't see why Morrison couldnt have a run with the WHC.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Upper midcard is a great spot for him unless he's able to develop some type of... sizzle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

With where the World Championship is at these days, Morrison can easily obtain a run there. Which, I guess, is along the lines of what I said anyways about him having a Sheamus-esque slot. This all sounds right.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Perhaps shout out to my other favorite posters.
> 
> SAINT DICK sign.


:mark: (Y)

would go nicely with WOOLCOCK sign


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm just imaging how cool Morrison/Bryan would be. Or Morrison/Cesaro or Morrison/Rollins!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gosh all of those sound :homer

pop up european on Morrison would be stellar


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Hail, you going to SummerSlam? I knew TLK was going because he mentioned it not too long ago. If you both are going, would be great to look out. lol (Y)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

If anyone else is attending Fan Axxess, I'll be the muscle-bound Asian guy in the pink Dolph Ziggler tank


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I can't lie I would mark out if Morrison came back. Bryan, Rollins, Ziggler, RVD, Punk and Christian is just the start of the great matches that could be had.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> If anyone else is attending Fan Axxess, I'll be the muscle-bound Asian guy in the pink Dolph Ziggler tank


Have you ever done Fan Axxess before? I'm thinking about doing it for Mania XXXI. Getting tickets as a college graduation gift for myself and I'm curious if it's a good time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Hail, you going to SummerSlam? I knew TLK was going because he mentioned it not too long ago. If you both are going, would be great to look out. lol (Y)


Yep. It's been the plan for close to a year now. Thanks to some luck it's on. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Brye said:


> Have you ever done Fan Axxess before? I'm thinking about doing it for Mania XXXI. Getting tickets as a college graduation gift for myself and I'm curious if it's a good time.


No, I haven't. My friend and I just decided to do it since this is our first non B-PPV (I've only been to No Way Out and Vengeance). From what I've heard, it's a pretty fun experience.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Yep. It's been the plan for close to a year now. Thanks to some luck it's on. :mark:


mark hard ositivity You too, PGsucks. (Y)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Will do! This is the first PPV I'm going to since 2008, and the first time I'll ever see Brock Lesnar wrestle live. I'm gonna scream myself hoarse by the main event.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Y'all should be in for a good show, with the potential card lined up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching the RAW after the Montreal Screwjob, and Shawn Michaels alludes to his 2006 feud with Vince McMahon all the way back in 1997! :hbk2 Cocaine's a hell of a drug.

Undertaker/Mankind vs. Michaels/HHH 8/18/97 RAW ***** (SHAWN IS GAY CHANTS!)
Bret/Shamrock 10/21/97 RAW ****1/4*

Big Show vs. Cena at NWO 2012 is a legitimate DUD. More boring than that sleep inducing Bret/HBK Ironman match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker & Mankind teaming? IT CAN'T BE POSSIBLE.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Just found a 70 match HBK set on XWT. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^:mark: 

Do they still have the dolph I am perfection and its not showing off shirts ? If so Cody and Greg ( that so weird calling someone else that) ill give you money and u buy me one :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know this one isn't stocked up anymore:










Sad face. Luckily I got the pink "It's not showing off shirt" in time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've been thinking about getting a Dolph shirt for so long. Even the cut-off one. But at the same time that Prime Time players shirt looks me in the eye every time I go on shop.

AND THERE'S A MACHO MAN SHIRT NOW


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I have never seen the Owen/Shamrock Dungeon match, and this is probably the funniest match I have ever seen. Stars do not do this justice, GALAXIES do! :lol

And now I find out that :HHH2 had a Lion's Den match with The Big Bossman? This is too much :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's way too many shirts on WWE.com I'd like to sport. Ziggler alone has about five I want.

Owen vs Shamrock Dungeon match. Ha. Awesome. Their Lion's Den match is a top ten pick for one of my favorites from '98. Stellar stuff.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Started watching Payback. Pleasantly surprised by the Barrett/Axel/Miz opener. Expected another crappy WWE three way and it seemed like it was heading in that direction too but it picked up nicely. Really strong final few minutes and I loved the finish. Props to whoever booked that. The Chicago crowd went apeshit for the Perfectplex too. Has Axel had any worthwhile singles matches yet? Kaitlyn/AJ is the best divas match in a zillion years. It actually had a story and good character work. DAT SPEAR!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You can try his series with Jericho. They weren't bad, yet weren't ground breaking either. Solid is the best positive I could stretch.

Opener on Payback is my favorite match of his since he's gotten the push. I have fun with it; not to mention live I thought Miz was going to win which was going to make me pass out from displeasure. So it even fooled me while I got into the bout.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Holy fuck Ziggler/Del Rio was amazeballs. Adored it. So much so that it's my current MOTY. Phenomenal work.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Holy fuck Ziggler/Del Rio was amazeballs. Adored it. So much so that it's my current MOTY. Phenomenal work.


(Y)

One of my favorite matches of the year. It might not be as great as Punk/Cena, Bryan/Rollins or some of the six man tags we've had, but it tells a damn good story.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dolph vs Del Rio turned me upside down. Didn't know what the hell was going on - that double turn - & then the finish. Work by both was tremendous & props to WWE for coming out of left field with that peach.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brye said:


> (Y)
> 
> One of my favorite matches of the year. It might not be as great as Punk/Cena, Bryan/Rollins or some of the six man tags we've had, but it tells a damn good story.


It blew me away. Absolutely loved it. Fantastic work by both guys, brilliant storytelling, just a phenomenal match. I don't do stars anymore but if I did I'd throw something crazy at it, like ****1/2. Wow that was majestic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Money in the Bank rematch isn't as spectacular, yet I'm certain you'll be happy to know they make a few nice plays off of the match from Payback in it. It's quite the good match in its own right; barring the poor finish. Makes you wonder the booking staff's logic in making AJ Lee look like a goober that night.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

If I'm not mistaken I saw a Ziggler/Cesaro match on your MOTYC list. That has to rule the world with Dolph as a face.

Punk/Jericho time. Opinions seem to be divided on this one, or is it only a few people who like it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh goodness does it ever. Fasted 14 minutes all year. Great match.

I'm not too sure. It seems the casual approach loved it, and in here you'll get differing views. You may have saw my brief bit on the match pages ago; I'm on the against side. fyi, imo, the show peaked with Dolph vs Del Rio.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hmmm... I liked Punk/Jericho just fine. It definitely wasn't great though. Gonna need a re-watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6


*Part 7 (160-141)

(***1/4)
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004









159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000









158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28









157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000









156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998









155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994









154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996









153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991









152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009









151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell









150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998









149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4









148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003









147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988









146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009









(***1/2)
145 - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus, Fatal 4-Way 2010









144 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009









143 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003









142 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001









141 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009







*​



Spoiler: list so far



(DUD)
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
(1/4*)
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
(1/2*)
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
(3/4*)
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
(*)
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
(*1/4)
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
(*1/2)
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
(*3/4)
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
(**)
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
(**1/4)
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
(**1/2)
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
(**3/4)
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
(***)
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
(***1/4)
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
(***1/2)
144 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
143 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
142 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
141 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Rock-Cena WM28 should be higher. I thought it was quite good, even above Trips-Taker from the same event and was on the Punk-Jericho level but the dragged out nature and lengthy rest holds decreased it in quality.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rock/Cena had one of the greatest atmospheres, that is what made the match great, not exactly the in-ring work


----------



## Fluze (May 13, 2013)

Meh, I saw different.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fluze said:


> Rock-Cena WM28 should be higher. I thought it was quite good, even above Trips-Taker from the same event and was on the Punk-Jericho level but *the dragged out nature and lengthy rest holds decreased it in quality.*


Exactly this. Originally I had it at ****, then a couple of rewatches later I see it as a good but beyond dragged out match. Personally imo Taker/HHH is lightyears better.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

Cena/Rock is incredibly dull until the pretty sweet finish.

Don't think i'll ever rewatch it.

@ ATF, never realised that F4W was so well received, may have to check it out. The PPV name still makes me cringe.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was a very good 4-Way, yeah. It had just about the perfect pace and flow for my tastes.

Imo that PPV, regardless of the name, was pretty badass.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bret/Shawn at SS 97 was on its way to be the third five star match of 1997 until the fuckery happened. One of the best brawls I have ever seen in the WWE. *****1/4*


I agree it was a very good match. There was a lot of heat in it, the crowd looked and sounded like they might have lynched Michaels. The outside brawl was fun, Bret choking Shawn with the flag was good but unfortunately there were too many rest holds from what I can remember. I think it's one of the best finishes ever in wrestling actually as it accomplished so many things: got Shawn more heel heat, turned Bret back to a face and gave him a ton of momentum going into WCW, gave Vince heel heat as the heel owner which allowed him feud with Austin.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

So i just rewatched Bryan's Gauntlet match (matches? fuck knows) from Raw and it hasn't gone down any. Firstly, shame on Daniel Bryan. Why? Because Zeb Colter said so and he is Hulk Hogan levels of real American! Anyway, first up we get Jack Swagger which honestly, I was pretty psyched about. Wasn't really much of a match though. I mean it was fine, just nothing more. Basically Swagger beating on Bryan and Bryan getting a submission win. I did like how they handled it though. It came across (at least to me) as the crowd getting to Swags, and Bryan capitalizing on Swagger shouting his "WE THE PEOPLE" schtick and getting the tap out.

Next up is Cesaro. First of all, fuck WWE with a rusty metal dildo for going to adverts at the start of this match....seriously. Now that's out of the way, this match was reeeally fun to watch. I was worried that maybe on my first viewing, I was watching through rose-tinted glasses because I was getting to see these two lock it up in a WWE ring, but no, this was legit. Cesaro is as good as anyone in control of a match and Bryan is great working from behind (oo'er missus? no? ok), so you know that these two are going to produce something of note whenever they match up. Bryan's faux-comebacks (that's a thing now) were really good and when he finally does get back into the match and they go back and forth it get's pretty freaking awesome to watch. Just so many slick sequences, like the uppercut in mid air, the german suplex followed by the head kick etc etc. I thought the finish was awesome for a number of reasons 1) It was very well executed 2) Bryan got the clean win while Cesaro still looked strong 3) It worked, in that Cesaro went to the well one too many times with that uppercut and paid for it. My only major gripe with this match is that there weren't enough headlocks (I fully expect nobody to get that reference BUT I MADE IT ANYWAY).

Lastly is the Ryback match, which I feel is getting overlooked by most. Legit thought this was great and although not quite on par with their Smackdown match, is awesome in its own right. Speaking of the Smackdown match, they threw in some nice callback spots such as, Ryback catching Bryan in a powerbomb while he's going for his head kick. Only this time, Bryan reverses it for a great near fall. They also did a nice faux-comeback spot (see? I told you it was a thing) where Bryan reverses Ryback's Thesz press into a half crab (which he torques to fuck) on Ryback's "injured" knee. The finish was botched (not pointing any fingers...but it probably wasn't Daniel Bryan's fault) but it didn't bother me. It still worked to be honest, even though I'm sure it hurt like fuck.

Anyways, that's my two pennies worth (because I'm British), thought it was awesome, and in fact the whole show was really enjoyable. Thumbs up WWE.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Shane McMahon vs. Steve Blackman, Summerslam '00 - *** (An entire star is dedicated to Shane's epic fall.)

Rey Mysterio, John Morrison, Kofi Kingston vs. The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, R-Truth, Summerslam '11 - ***1/4

(Mask vs. Title) Triple H vs. Kane, Raw 03 - ****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for the sake of it:

*Cena/Bryan Velocity '03:* ***1/4
*Cena/Bryan Raw '12:* ***1/2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cody, we're going to Summerslam.


OMG.



The Lady Killer said:


> Might give the WOOLCOCK sign another go :woolcock


If security and the whims of PG prove insurmountable, then 'SI' can work 



HayleySabin said:


> Yeah1993 please. I'll crack up seeing it in person; no lie.


Yeah1993 = AFRODISIAC

My interest in Randy Orton is as lacking as Dualshock's brain

Seabs Club Juniors

SHEPARD's FLOCK

Daniel Bryean

Paul Heyman - Jew Makin' Me Crazy

I could go on ad nauseum.


----------



## Andre (Jul 17, 2011)

Cody should take a sign baring "Wagg stole my girlfriend"


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

"If Del Rio wins we initiate the redeadening."

"Chloe Moretz: Carrie On"

"We won't be talking about this in a month"


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Edit: nevermind


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can I once again ask by this point if everyone has all WWE 2013 **1/2+ matches so far?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ever Wolf said:


> @ ATF, never realised that F4W was so well received, may have to check it out. The PPV name still makes me cringe.


Fatal Four Way isn't too good of a show. WWE Championship four way is really bad & you have two of the worst matches on the year in Miz vs Truth and a fucked from jump street divas four way.

McIntyre/Kingston, Jericho/Bourne, & Hart Dynasty vs Usos/Tamina is all you really had to take away from it. The World Championship four way was on the average side, but it can be considered entertaining. Only PPV Punk had the SES mask on for - that's a sight.



WOOLCOCK said:


> OMG.
> 
> 
> If security and the whims of PG prove insurmountable, then 'SI' can work
> ...





THE DARK ANDRE said:


> Cody should take a sign baring "Wagg stole my girlfriend"





WOOLCOCK said:


> "If Del Rio wins we initiate the redeadening."
> 
> "Chloe Moretz: Carrie On"
> 
> "We won't be talking about this in a month"


:lmao

_"with a tear...in my eye!..."_


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good work on that list, ATF. I am kinda shocked though that you weren't a BIG fan of Undertaker/Austin CDiH or Taker/Bret at Royal Rumble 96.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I own the following DVD's:

Shawn Michaels: My Story
Ric Flair: The Ultimate Collection
Undertaker: The Streak
Viva La Raza: The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero
Cheating Death, Stealing Life: The Eddie Guerrero Story
The 25 Greatest Rivalries 
For All Mankind
Mick Foley's Greatest Hits and Misses: Bonus Collection
Bret Hart: The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best....
The Curt Hennig DVD (Can't remember the name)
Money in the Bank 2011
Wrestlemania 29
The Monday Night Wars
The Rise and Fall of ECW
The Best of In Your House

I think thats it...

Anyways, I'm looking to buy atleast 2 or 3 new DVD sets, does anyone have any reccomendations? I love the documentaries about the preformer to go along with great matches, but obviously the DVD set doesn't NEED to include a documentary. My favorite wrestlers are Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, HBK, Stone Cold, Mick Foley, Bret Hart, Undertaker, CM Punk, I like Triple H too but it makes me feel guilty for enjoying his matches hahaha


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Good work on that list, ATF. I am kinda shocked though that you weren't a BIG fan of Undertaker/Austin CDiH or Taker/Bret at Royal Rumble 96.


Certainly they're good matches, for sure, but for some reason they didn't wow me that much. I did felt that Bret/Taker in its case was way too long and felt a little plodding to me, and despite them being only behind Flair as the GOAT's imo, I straight up rarely enjoy Austin/Taker matches as much as everyone does. Between their Buried Alive match and Backlash '02, those 2 have already gone deep into levels of suck together. ACDIH was still pretty good so yeah.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Onto the Payback main event now. Great show so far even though only one match (Ziggler/Del Rio) has truly been outstanding. Tag titles match was good. A notch or two below what I've come to expect from The Shield but they were in a tough position on the card having to follow the two hottest matches of the night. And Orton was in it so yeah... Nothing was actively bad about it but it didn't get out of second gear until Bryan's hot tag, which was typically the highlight of the bout.

EDIT: Enjoyed Cena/Ryback too until the cartoony ambulance stage.

The List:

1. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
2. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
3. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
4. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
5. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
6. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
7. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
8. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
9. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
10. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
11. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
12. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
13. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
14. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
15. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
16. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
17. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)

Jericho/Punk could find itself somewhere on there after a second viewing.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Anyone got a Top 10 ECW/WCW match list for Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio Jr. ?





cjack828 said:


> I own the following DVD's:
> 
> Shawn Michaels: My Story
> Ric Flair: The Ultimate Collection
> ...




Looks like you need CM Punk: Best in the World, Undertaker Tombstone and some Steve Austin DVDs - the 'Bottom Line' Blu-ray is like 12hrs and about four of them hours are promos and his stunts with cars and trucks, it's got some great matches but get the 'Legacy' DVD as well if you're a big fan. 

I assume that's the My Journey HBK DVD you got. Get his other ones to go along with it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow you liked the majority of Cena vs Ryback? I thought it was relatively cartoony the entire time. And not in the awesome positive I usually support either. At least you dug the show. 

btw, Sheamus vs Jack Swagger from Main Event was immense. Watch now, people. holy shit those two are fabulous. Sheamus vs Luke Harper is on tap for NXT atm. This guy is going to legit have three great matches in one week. I know it. To say I'm excited for Sheamus vs Harper right now is like saying we all we estatic when Eddie Guerrero won the WWE Championship. I'm that :mark: This has to be friggin grand.

ATF, I'm gonna do that list for you soon. Probably after NXT. (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ownage did you see Bryan/Cesaro yet?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I finally rewatched Punk/Jericho and Ziggler/Del Rio from Payback, and the latter just blew me away. That story was they told was just beautiful; reminded me a lot of HBK/Jericho from the Great American Bash 2008. 

I refuse to sit through that Three Stages of Hell match again, though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Wow you liked the majority of Cena vs Ryback? I thought it was relatively cartoony the entire time. And not in the awesome positive I usually support either. At least you dug the show.
> 
> btw, Sheamus vs Jack Swagger from Main Event was immense. Watch now, people. holy shit those two are fabulous. *Sheamus vs Luke Harper is on tap for NXT atm*. This guy is going to legit have three great matches in one week. I know it. To say I'm excited for Sheamus vs Harper right now is like saying we all we estatic when Eddie Guerrero won the WWE Championship. I'm that :mark: This has to be friggin grand.
> 
> ATF, I'm gonna do that list for you soon. Probably after NXT. (Y)


...

:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

Imma watch NXT right now. Calling MOTYC there if given enough time. Also hoping Paige/Emma delievers.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Wow you liked the majority of Cena vs Ryback? I thought it was relatively cartoony the entire time. And not in the awesome positive I usually support either. At least you dug the show.
> 
> btw, Sheamus vs Jack Swagger from Main Event was immense. Watch now, people. holy shit those two are fabulous. Sheamus vs Luke Harper is on tap for NXT atm. This guy is going to legit have three great matches in one week. I know it. To say I'm excited for Sheamus vs Harper right now is like saying we all we estatic when Eddie Guerrero won the WWE Championship. I'm that :mark: This has to be friggin grand.
> 
> ATF, I'm gonna do that list for you soon. Probably after NXT. (Y)


Yeah man, somehow I did. Most likely because I was expecting a straight up crapfest. Thought the lumberjack and tables stages were pretty good but the 3rd fall was ridiculous in a bad way and stopped it from being a good match. They got some good sequences going in the first two falls and I liked Ryback's reckless attempts to kill Cena with the steps. Ambulance stage was garbage though, and the selling was questionable throughout.



The Lady Killer said:


> Ownage did you see Bryan/Cesaro yet?


Yeah I caught that live on TV. It was definitely great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*The Wrestling Ashes *( 8*D ):

*UK's Paige/Australia's Emma: ***1/4.* Fuck Kaitlyn/AJ, this is Divas MOTY for my sake.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> ...
> 
> :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Imma watch NXT right now. Calling MOTYC there if given enough time. Also hoping Paige/Emma delievers.


Almost done. Smackdown hasn't been good for very long this year so I should zip through that batch quickly :side:

As do I. Finally can see what the live reports were raving about between the two dames. I'm predicting that it will be at least good. They're two talented to not let it go that level.

Not to mention this NXT also has Cesaro/Kruger vs Zayn/Dallas on it too. Potential is very high this week. I hope Enzo Amore can get a small backstage interview and then it'll be perfect. 



Saint Dick said:


> Yeah man, somehow I did. Most likely because I was expecting a straight up crapfest. Thought the lumberjack and tables stages were pretty good but the 3rd fall was ridiculous in a bad way and stopped it from being a good match. They got some good sequences going in the first two falls and I liked Ryback's reckless attempts to kill Cena with the steps. Ambulance stage was garbage though, and the selling was questionable throughout.


I always have a hard time being invested in lumberjack matches and it was no different at Payback. It felt like a low brow smackdown main event in that portion for me. All I liked was Cena's dive onto the entire roster. Outside of that it was a snoozefest. Tables was probably the best fall of the bunch. Three Stages of Hell matches just never work out, it seems.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

When I hear the words "Lumberjack Match" my first though is "That fan's revenge match in TNA was pretty fucking goofy", my second thought is "sounds like a Smackdown main event"

The match choices for Ryback/Cena are damn, damn confusing. The match itself is dull, I literally fell asleep in the venue showing it live.

Also Cody, I demand you be dressed as Henchman 21.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> *The Wrestling Ashes *( 8*D ):
> 
> *UK's Paige/Australia's Emma: ***1/4.* Fuck Kaitlyn/AJ, this is Divas MOTY for my sake.


Please, in the name of love, tell me that you're referring to their:



Spoiler: NXT



finals (20/06)?



I've heard MASSIVE hype for it. Like, MotY hype. I've been waiting with giddy excitement for it to pop up online. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Outside of Sheamus/Big Show last year and Bret/Owen, I can't think of any other good lumberjack matches. I guess also the two HENRY ones (Christian and Bryan).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sheamus/Harper: ***3/4.* Just YES.

@Rah, exactly that one yes.

@Cody, Sami & Dallas/Cesaro & Kruger is only next week


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wait, Sami's on NXT?

EDIT: Oh Sami and is Sami Zayn fpalm


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

FUCK. If I wasn't drunk right now I'd be all over that shit. Need a fresh perspective.



sharkboy22 said:


> Wait, Sami's on NXT?


Sami Zayne (El Generico)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anyone remember this? 






For some reason, after watching Bryan run the gauntlet this past Monday this just popped into my head.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rah said:


> FUCK. If I wasn't drunk right now I'd be all over that shit. *Need a fresh perspective.*


Well, you get stuff like psychology. And a Paige modified-Cloverleaf being semi-countered to a DilEmma, that Paige counters too. And loud dueling chants. And a Superplex.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> *Sheamus/Harper: ***3/4.* Just YES.
> 
> @Rah, exactly that one yes.
> 
> @Cody, Sami & Dallas/Cesaro & Kruger is only next week


Ah well shoot. 

Anyways, here you go:



Spoiler: LIST



1) WWE Championship - Tables, Ladders, & Chairs Match
CM Punk(c) vs Ryback - (Monday Night RAW - 1/7)

2) Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler - (Main Event - 1/9)

3) Kane & Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara - (Smackdown - 2/1)

4) CM Punk vs Chris Jericho - (Monday Night RAW - 2/4)

5) Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger - (NXT - 2/6)

6) NXT Tag Team Championship Tournament Finals
Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - (NXT - 2/13)

7) John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - (Elimination Chamber - 2/17)

8) Chris Jericho, Sheamus, & Ryback vs The Shield - (Monday Night RAW - 2/18)

9) John Cena vs CM Punk - (Monday Night RAW - 2/25)

10) The Shield vs Big Show, Sheamus, & Randy Orton - (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

11) The Undertaker vs CM Punk - (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

12) No Holds Barred Match
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar - (WrestleMania 29 - 4/7)

13) William Regal vs Kassius Ohno - (NXT - 4/10)

14) Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - (Smackdown - 4/19)

15) The Shield vs The Undertaker, Kane, & Daniel Bryan - (Monday Night RAW - 4/22)

16) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Adrian Neville - (NXT - 4/24)

17) No Holds Barred Match
Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio -(Smackdown - 4/26)

18) Big Show vs Sheamus - (Smackdown - 4/26)

19) The Shield vs John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan -(Monday Night RAW - 4/29)

20) WWE United States Championship
Kofi Kingston(c) vs Antonio Cesaro -(Main Event - 5/1)

21) Ryback vs Daniel Bryan - (Smackdown - 5/3)

22) Elimination Match
John Cena, Kane, & Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - (Monday Night RAW - 5/13)

23) Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Alberto Del Rio vs Big Show, Mark Henry, & Jack Swagger - (Smackdown - 5/17)

24) Steel Cage Match
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H -(Extreme Rules - 5/19)

25) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Kofi Kingston - (Monday Night RAW - 5/20)

26) WWE Tag Team Championship
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Kane & Daniel Bryan - (Monday Night RAW - 5/27)

27) Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - (Main Event - 5/29)

28) The Shield vs Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton - (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

29) Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - (Monday Night RAW - 6/3)

30) NXT Tag Team Championship
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves - (NXT - 6/5)

31) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - (Main Event - 6/5)

32) Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - (Monday Night RAW - 6/10)

33) Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - (NXT - 6/12)

34) Sheamus vs Antonio Cesaro - (Smackdown - 6/14)

35) Kane, Daniel Bryan, & Randy Orton vs The Shield - (Smackdown - 6/14)

36) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs Alberto Del Rio - (Payback - 6/16)

37) Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - (Monday Night RAW - 7/8)

38) Dolph Ziggler vs Antonio Cesaro - (Main Event - 7/10)

39) Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Jack Swagger vs Antonio Cesaro vs Dean Ambrose vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

40) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Dolph Ziggler - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

41) WWE Championship
John Cena(c) vs Mark Henry - (Money in the Bank - 7/14)

42) Alberto Del Rio vs Sheamus - (Monday Night RAW - 7/22)

43) Daniel Bryan vs Antonio Cesaro - (Monday Night RAW - 7/22)

44) Sheamus vs Jack Swagger - (Main Event - 7/24)


*Saturday Morning Slam:*
1) Sheamus vs Michael McGillicutty - 1/19

2) Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan - 4/13


*Superstars:*
1) Mike Mizanin vs Tensai - 1/10

2) Antonio Cesaro vs Zack Ryder - 3/21

3) Ted Dibiase Jr vs Michael McGillicutty - 5/9

4) Cody Rhodes vs Justin Gabriel - 5/9

5) Damen Sandow vs Alex Riley - 5/23

6) Antonio Cesaro vs Zack Ryder - 6/27


*NXT:*
1) Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - 1/2

2) Trent Barreta vs Leo Kruger - 1/16

3) Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs Antonio Cesaro & Damien Sandow - 1/16

4) Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Heath Slater & Drew McIntyre - 1/23

5) Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger vs Alex Riley & Derrick Bateman - 1/30

6) Summer Rae vs Paige - 2/13

7) Xavier Woods vs El Local - 2/20

8) Justin Gabriel vs Leo Kruger - 2/27

9) Corey Graves vs Conor O'Brien - 2/27

10) Conor O'Brien vs Corey Graves vs Bo Dallas - 3/6

11) Kassius Ohno vs Derrick Bateman - 3/13

12) Bo Dallas vs Bray Wyatt - 3/13

13) Leo Kruger vs Justin Gabriel - 3/20

14) Luke Harper vs Adrian Neville - 3/20

15) Adrian Neville & Bo Dallas vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - 4/3

16) Paige & Sasha Banks vs Summer Rae & Audrey Marie - 4/3

17) Leo Kruger vs Justin Gabriel - 4/17

18) Emma vs Bayley - 4/17

19) Lumberjack Match
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - 4/17

20) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Wade Barrett(c) vs Bo Dallas - 4/24

21) Paige vs Summer Rae - 5/1

22) Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt - 5/1

23) Paige vs Bayley - 5/8

24) NXT Tag Team Championship
Adrian Neville & Bo Dallas(c) vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - 5/8

25) Summer Rae vs Natalya Neidhart - 5/15

26) Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro - 5/22

27) Bray Wyatt vs Corey Graves - 5/22

28) NXT Championship
Big E. Langston vs Bo Dallas - 6/12

29) Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan vs Kassius Ohno, Adrian Neville, & Corey Graves - 6/19

30) Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves vs Scott Dawson & Garrett Dylan - 6/26

31) NXT Championship
Bo Dallas(c) vs Antonio Cesaro - 7/3

34) Emma vs Summer Rae - 7/10

33) Leo Kruger vs Sami Zayn - 7/10

33) Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan vs William Regal, Adrian Neville, & Corey Graves - 7/10

34) Leo Kruger vs Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - 7/17

35) NXT Tag Team Championship
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan(c) vs Adrian Neville & Corey Graves - 7/17


*Main Event:*
1) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Great Khali - 1/2

2) Ryback vs Antonio Cesaro - 1/23

3) Ryback vs Antonio Cesaro - 1/30

4) Tensai vs Titus O'Neil - 1/30

5) Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - 2/13

6) Justin Gabriel vs Titus O'Neil - 2/20

7) Mark Henry vs Justin Gabriel - 2/27

8) Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara - 3/6

9) Kane vs Antonio Cesaro - 3/27

10) Handicap Match
Mike Mizanin vs Darren Young & Titus O'Neil - 4/3

11) The Shield vs Tensai, Brodus Clay, & Kofi Kingston - 4/10

12) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Wade Barrett(c) vs Justin Gabriel - 4/17

13) Mark Henry Gauntlet - 4/24

14) Justin Gabriel vs Heath Slater - 5/1

15) Kane vs Seth Rollins - 5/15

16) Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel - 5/29

17) Justin Gabriel vs Curt Hawkins - 6/5

18) Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara -6/19

19) Chris Jericho vs Cody Rhodes - 6/26

20) Christian vs Fandango - 7/17

21) Damien Sandow vs Justin Gabriel - 7/24


*Smackdown:*
1) Sheamus vs Wade Barrett - 1/25

2) Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - 2/1

3) Big Show vs Kane - 2/8

4) Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara - 2/8

5) Mark Henry vs Randy Orton - 2/8

6) Big Show vs Chris Jericho - 2/15

7) Sheamus vs Damien Sandow - 2/25

8) Alberto Del Rio vs Wade Barrett - 2/25

9) WWE United States Championship - Two out of Three Falls
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Mike Mizanin - 3/1

10) Big Show vs Sheamus - 3/8

11) Jack Swagger vs Chris Jericho - 3/15

12) Dolph Ziggler vs Chris Jericho - 4/12

13) Big Show & Mark Henry vs Sheamus & Randy Orton - 4/19

14) The Undertaker vs Dean Ambrose - 4/26

15) Dean Ambrose vs Kane - 5/3

16) Daniel Bryan vs Dean Ambrose - 5/10

17) Chris Jericho vs Ryback - 5/10

18) Chris Jericho vs Antonio Cesaro - 5/17

19) Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger - 5/24

20) Chris Jericho vs Big Show - 5/24

21) The Shield vs Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Kofi Kingston - 5/24

22) Kane vs Seth Rollins - 5/31

23) Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan - 5/31

24) Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - 6/7

25) Sheamus vs Cody Rhodes - 6/21

26) Christian vs Drew McIntyre - 6/21

27) Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - 6/21

28) Dolph Ziggler vs Drew McIntyre - 7/5

29) CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - 7/5

30) Daniel Bryan vs Christian - 7/12

31) Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - 7/19

32) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Curtis Axel(c) vs Chris Jericho - 7/19


*RAW:*
1) CM Punk vs Brodus Clay - 1/14

2) Dolph Ziggler vs Mike Mizanin - 1/21

3) Tables Match
Sheamus vs Damien Sandow - 1/28

4) Ryback vs Antonio Cesaro - 2/4

5) Daniel Bryan vs Rey Mysterio - 2/4

6) Chris Jericho vs Daniel Bryan - 2/11

7) Ryback vs Dolph Ziggler - 2/25

8) Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan - 3/11

9) No DQ Match
Kane vs CM Punk - 3/11

10) Alberto Del Rio vs Cody Rhodes - 3/18

11) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Wade Barrett(c) vs Chris Jericho vs Mike Mizanin - 3/18

12) Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan - 4/1

13) Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes - 4/29

14) Alberto Del Rio vs Antonio Cesaro - 4/29

15) Sheamus vs Titus O'Neil - 5/20

16) Randy Orton vs Jack Swagger - 5/20

17) Sheamus vs Cody Rhodes - 6/3

18) Handicap Match
Sheamus vs Cody Rhodes & Damien Sandow - 6/17

19) Antonio Cesaro vs William Regal - 6/17

20) CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - 6/17

21) The Shield vs Christian, Jimmy Uso, & Jey Uso - 7/1

22) Sheamus vs Fandango - 7/1

23) CM Punk & Curtis Axel vs Darren Young & Titus O'Neil - 7/1

24) John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio - 7/1

25) Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Tensai & Brodus Clay - 7/8

26) Randy Orton vs Fandango - 7/15

27) Alberto Del Rio vs Dolph Ziggler - 7/15

28) Rob Van Dam vs Chris Jericho - 7/15

29) Dolph Ziggler vs Darren Young - 7/22

30) Rob Van Dam vs Wade Barrett - 7/22

31) Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger - 7/22

32) Daniel Bryan vs Ryback - 7/22


*Elimination Chamber:*

1) World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Big Show

2) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Mike Mizanin


*WrestleMania 29:*

1) Mark Henry vs Ryback

2) WWE Tag Team Championship
Daniel Bryan & Kane(c) vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston

3) Fandango vs Chris Jericho

4) World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Jack Swagger


*Extreme Rules:*

1) WWE Tag Team Championship - Tornado Rules
Daniel Bryan & Kane(c) vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns


*Payback:*
1) WWE Intercontinental Championship - Triple Threat Match
Wade Barrett(c) vs Curtis Axel vs Mike Mizanin

2) WWE Divas Championship
Kaitlyn(c) vs AJ Lee

3) WWE Tag Team Championship
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns(c) vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton


*Money in the Bank:*
1) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Curtis Axel(c) vs Mike Mizanin



all of this plus damn near every other match that Mark Henry & Antonio Cesaro was in. Sadly, Cesaro has had some stinkers thanks to being squashed or worked little matches vs dregs like Orton & Kofi, but the majority is fabulous. Henry squashes > most stuff too. I've managed to like more than I thought this year. Most of the matches from RAW i've liked I thought were in the MOTYC pile instead, haha. Who would have guessed that?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Craig said:


> When I hear the words "Lumberjack Match" my first though is "That fan's revenge match in TNA was pretty fucking goofy", my second thought is "sounds like a Smackdown main event"
> 
> The match choices for Ryback/Cena are damn, damn confusing. The match itself is dull, I literally fell asleep in the venue showing it live.
> 
> Also Cody, I demand you be dressed as Henchman 21.


3 Stages of Hell is quite a literal name, never moreso than the HHH/HBK Armageddon encounter. Good lord that would just seemingly never end.

If Cody dressed as BRICK FROG I might die happy.

Only Lumberjack match I can ever really recall loving was Steamboat/Vader (billed as a Human Cage match but essentially a Lumberjack match). Think Cal had it top 3 for WCW unless I've gotten it mixed up with another encounter.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BRICK FROG or 21. 

Never had a tougher decision in my life.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, there are a few gimmick matches that if they never happened again, I'd be happy.

Lumberjack/jill is definitely one of them. 3 Stages of Hell is a cool concept that just never seems to produce. I do enjoy Austin/HHH, although I know quite a few don't. It's just so predictable that it'll go to a 3rd fall, especially when the third fall is a cage match and the damn cage is hanging overhead. :bosh


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn, that's a hell of a list Cody. Thanks dude (Y)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Chair matches are stupid as well. Although I would laugh hard if they changed the format to 'Musical chairs' :lmao :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know it. :hayley3

Hmm. Not so sure of what to watch atm. Either finish up some Puro or get NXT done with. The lucky thing about a free day is I have enough time to laze around and do both.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Chairs matches are kinda garbage too. Tables matches are often bland because they tease the spot a few times then the match ends when someone goes through a table. Meh. I did enjoy the Cara/Rey vs Rhodes Scholars tables match, though.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Oliver-94 said:


> Chair matches are stupid as well. Although I would laugh hard if they changed the format to 'Musical chairs' :lmao :vince


Nope, wouldn't work without Eugene prancing about on stage and Ric Flair pushing bitches to the ground.

Chairs matches are horribly stupid though, I mean when TNA's Last Rites match actually looks moderately sensible in comparison then you've got...

Oh wait, they use Candelabras as weapons in the Last Rites match, BEST MATCH EVER.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Has a tables match ever ended with someone going through the announcers table?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Swagger from Raw after Extreme Rules (20/5) is such a dull match. Even as an Orton fan, it's one of my least favorite matches from him, at least in this year. The Smackdown match after Elimination Chamber that took place hours before the birth of "Weed the People" was better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Kofi Kingston v Antonio Cesaro - Main Event (5/1/13)*
It was third time the charm for this one. Well sort of. I still don't think it's great but I enjoyed and appreciated it more on this viewing than the previous two. Cesaro's performance was all sorts of awesome. Tons of gnarly stuff from him here like the outrageous superplex, the double stomp to the knee, and the spin thingy (idk what to call that) into the half crab. In a way I felt he was slightly too dominant though. It worked well to set up the out of nowhere Trouble in Paradise finish but Cesaro had so much offense and Kofi so little that it never felt like Kingston could actually lose. That makes sense right? Anyway, I'll happily call it a good match with a standout showing from Cesaro. Still not on board with some of the praise it's getting however.

*Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)*
Now this was excellent. Comfortably prefer this to Kingston/Cesaro. Their 5/3 Smackdown match was really fucking good and this was even better. I've been seeing some people call Cesaro the best worker in the company. No, just no. It's Bryan Danielson by a distance. The way he garners sympathy and crowd support while playing FIP and then explodes with these electric flurries of offense is one of a kind right now. He came out on fire here with a point to prove. Loved the Indian death lock + strikes combo. Flying headbutt all the way across the ring was a thing of beauty and the suicide dive was a great 'fuck it, I'm going for broke' type spot. They also worked in a really great callback to the SD match where Ryback went for the second powerbomb. In the first encounter he creamed Bryan with it but this time DB knew it was coming and countered beautifully into the LeBell lock. DQ finish didn't hurt this at all. Great big man/little man match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> You know it. :hayley3
> 
> Hmm. Not so sure of what to watch atm. Either finish up some Puro or get NXT done with. The lucky thing about a free day is I have enough time to laze around and do both.


Well if you haven't seen this week's NXT, do it. Paige/Emma and Sheamus/Harper are def. worth it, and the Ascension and Tyler Breeze or whatever squashes are fun too.

If not, just check out some Trent Barreta or Matt Taven stuff I say. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick could you link me that kofi/cesaro I literally have looked everywhere to find it
-----------
@TLK that table tag match at tlc was really fun Rey :mark: may be the only person here that likes sin cara
-----

Been watching the GOAT year today guys, 1997


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig said:


> Nope, wouldn't work without Eugene prancing about on stage and Ric Flair pushing bitches to the ground.
> 
> Chairs matches are horribly stupid though, I mean when TNA's Last Rites match actually looks moderately sensible in comparison then you've got...
> 
> Oh wait, they use Candelabras as weapons in the Last Rites match, BEST MATCH EVER.


I've watched that classic far too many times. And you know what, I'm proud of it. 

LIGHTS GET DIM, CASKET FALLS FROM THE CEILING. FANS ARE STUNNED.



ATF said:


> Well if you haven't seen this week's NXT, do it. Paige/Emma and Sheamus/Harper are def. worth it, and the Ascension and Tyler Breeze or whatever squashes are fun too.
> 
> If not, just check out some Trent Barreta or Matt Taven stuff I say. (Y)


Ah yeah, that Tyler Breeze cat makes his debut on this edition. Hopefully he's another sound character to join in the mix.

Trent is good; has meshed nicely in the BOSJ tournament in Japan. Matt Taven...he's fairly average at best. Don't have any big dislike towards him, although he seems tailor made for current day ROH. And that's mediocre.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought i didn't like HHH/Austin (3 Stages Of Hell), but when i watched it a few weeks ago, boy was i fucking wrong, i LOVED it, just a perfect story for that rivalry, sure i threw ****3/4 at it too, i just loved the hell outta it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I've watched that classic far too many times. And you know what, I'm proud of it.
> 
> LIGHTS GET DIM, CASKET FALLS FROM THE CEILING. FANS ARE STUNNED.
> 
> ...


Last Rites match. Fuck yeah. SUGAR GLASS :mark:

Tyler's gimmick is essentially the fashion version of Fandango. He is athletic though, and I expect more good of him.

Barreta's Super Juniors match vs Shelley was fun yeah. Though imo his best was the 6-Man w/Usos vs Kidd, Slater & Gabriel. That match was Shield-good before Shield-good existed.

Taven is athletic enough for his sake. His matches with Adam Cole are diggable. Though obviously the best about him is his pre-match buttsex session. Scarlett Bordeaux's ass :homer


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Saint Dick could you link me that kofi/cesaro I literally have looked everywhere to find it


Sorry bro, don't have a link to it. I had that episode of Main Event on my laptop from when it happened. Seeking out the full show might be the best way to find it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xziblr_wwe-main-event-5-1-13-part-1-3-hq_sport

This dude on dailymotion uploads every episode of, like, literally every wrestling weekly TV show.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Scarlett Bordeaux....I'd love to see her in the E. 




zep81 said:


> I thought i didn't like HHH/Austin (3 Stages Of Hell), but when i watched it a few weeks ago, boy was i fucking wrong, i LOVED it, just a perfect story for that rivalry, sure i threw ****3/4 at it too, i just loved the hell outta it


Right there with ya man. I love that match. One of HHH's best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Last Rites match. Fuck yeah. SUGAR GLASS :mark:
> 
> Tyler's gimmick is essentially the fashion version of Fandango. He is athletic though, and I expect more good of him.
> 
> ...


Sting's epic blade job. He earned his pay that night.

Coolness. Still haven't watched yet as I had some other stuff to check out. Thinking right now is a good time to zip on through NXT.

I was happy the six man held up as being awesome. Great match. Easily the only top notch thing the Usos ever did. Trying to think what the best Barreta singles match was/is. Probably vs Danielson on Superstars as that is the only one that is jumping out atm.

Yeah, Taven has that. Plus a great springboard corkscrew senton. I simply haven't seen a real breakout performance yet from the guy. Best match I've see was his chaotic three way vs Hardy & Cole from Supercard of Honor. 

Can't get me started on Scarlett Bordeaux right now. I won't be able to function. :homer

------------

@Yeah - Sheamus x3 in the workhorse department this week. Try and hop on it quickly. I'll keep plugging this your way if you forget.


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

*Chris Jericho vs John Cena-WWE Survivor Series 2008*

I re-watched this and saw a completely different match. My review ended up having a ton of play by play but whatevs, it is what it is.



This is a fucking fantastic match. The "story" itself is pretty simple, with Jericho being the dominant heel champ and Cena being a returning crowd favourite returning from his neck injury in front of his hometown crowd. The match itself starts slowly, with Jericho selling the threat of the FU and the STFU brilliantly, and they make it clear Cena is still doubting himself, which culminates on him giving up on a Diving Legdrop attempt (the same move that got countered into a neck-breaking Powerbomb at Cena's Summerslam match against Batista). THAT moment causes the big transition into Jericho's control segment and the start of the neckwork. I'd have to fast forward to the closing seconds of the match and Cena's triumphic Diving Legdrop with him fully regaining his self confidence for storyline continuation, but plenty of relevant stuff happened before that. Like Jericho's brutal Big Boot, after which he immediately asked the ref to check on Cena. When he realized Cena wasn't done yet, Jericho immediately returned to the ring and decided to take a count-out victory. Acting cocky yet careful, Jericho observed Cena at all times and went right back at the attack as soon as Cena came back into the ring. Jericho counters Cena's next comeback attempt by shoving him away out of the ring, but this time the damage done is clearly not enough to put Cena down for a ten count, so Jericho instantly goes back to the attack. 99% of Jericho's moves target Cena's back, and it's perfectly reasonable why he'd attemt those that don't (like the Lionsault, a high-impact move that has earned him many victories in the past). I LOVE the first FU. It came out of nowhere, no one saw it coming, and Cena got beat up prior to it. It shouldn't have been an epic nearfall, it was rather a significant transition that got him back into the match. I love the Codebreaker even more-Cena had successfully performed the Diving Legdrop, he was as self confident as ever and fell right into Jericho's trap when he attempted the FU. Jericho sold appropriately-the Legdrop didn't kill him, but it did its damage and slowed down the speed of his crawling. And then comes the finish. Throughout the entire match, Jericho used the Clothesline as a transitional move that got him back into control, and now, in the final moments of the match, with Cena surviving all the moves that he has put down various wrestlers in the past months, he uses it to buy time. It fits into his strategy, it hasn't let him down yet and he's sure he'll come up with something eventually. However, his plan fell apart. Cena countered a Clothesline into an STF. With the way it has been built up to this point and considering all the names Cena's beaten with the move, this has to be the end, right? Jericho crawls to the ropes with everything he's got, defending both his precious championship and his reputation. Being outsmarted by John Cena isn't really something he'd like to be known for. Jericho gets closer and closer to the ropes, but even if he were to reach them Cena'd have 4 seconds to cause additional damage to him, and picking up the lifeless Jericho and FUing him would be no problem then. However, it's John Cena. His moral principles, as goofy as they are, don't approve of bending the rules. Cena drags Jericho towards the center of the ring, and Jericho quickly capitalizes by turning around and hitting Johnny-boy with a Big Boot right to the face. Exhausted and bruised, Jericho rolls Cena into a Small Package, probably the perfect move to do in his situation. And then comes the ending itself. Cena deadlifts Jericho into an FU that ends this epic match. It's the perfect ending-Cena didn't beat Jericho with skill, he did it with raw power. Did I mention I love this match? Because I really do. I'm probably looking to much into it but I don't care.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finally, someone else that seems to echo the love I have for that match. All the details spout off is why I love it so; they added many neat elements to it to allow it to transcend higher & higher. that's how you tell a story and work a wrestling match all in the same line, folks. Look at what those two did & take notes.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm sitting down to watch King of the Ring 1999 tomorrow for the second time ever. If it's anything like I remember it being when I first watched it, I'm going to be in for a long three hours. May or may not do my first kind of review deal on here depending on how I feel after watching it, so I'll put a few details on each match into bullet points just in case. Out of interest, would anybody be interested in me reviewing it?

I'm just thinking 'get through some of the shit that 1999 gave us, and I can get onto the GOAT year of 2000'. I loved the attitude era, but alot of WWF television through the summer of that year was very mediocre. That Big Show/Undertaker tag team, for example...I always remember that promo Taker cut about how Big Show's bike ran out of fuel in the desert and Taker carried on without him and waited for him at the edge of the desert, where Show eventually returned to ages later carrying his bike on his back. Mind-numbing and just...ugh. Looking forward to re-watching the Raw that Jericho debuted on though, and the first couple of Smackdown episodes - especially that one where Triple H fought several times in one night in the build up to Unforgiven and had to win so many of them.

*EDIT:* Found the promo. Y2J came out and slaughtered Show and Taker and Taker basically shit on Y2J there and then with the shower time comment. 

Enjoy laughing at Taker's WOAT promo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't remember anything good from King of the Ring 1999. KOTR 2000 sucks too and that's from their hottest year ever. Tournament shows don't always pan out the best.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

That was probably Taker's worst promo I've ever seen. Jericho said in his book Taker was legit pissed at him after that though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Edit the embedded video, please. I want to chuckle at Taker's nonsensical means.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't think it's necessarily a case of tournament pay-per-views being bad, I just think they can saturate the card with tournament matches at the time. If I remember correctly, KOTR '99 and 2000 had all the quarter finals on the show, too, which often reduces the time allocated and holds the talent back. I always did prefer them having the two semi-finals and then the big final on the same card, but that and only that. It gives the fans something extra to look forward to throughout the show, and they can anticipate the potential finalists and whatnot and be lucky enough to see it on the same show. With all the quarter finals on the same show, they ended up throwing less over guys into the pay-per-view just to 'fill it out' some more. I'll discuss that more when I review it, though.

And I do recall Y2J talking about it in his second book, actually. Pretty funny as I remember it. Awful promo from Taker though - truly awful. His work in general in '99 was crap though. I've never been a _huge_ fan of his Ministry stuff and all of his pay-per-view matches that year were instantly forgettable. Taker vs. Shamrock at Backlash 1999? Terrible bout, would have given it *1/2 at best.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Edit the embedded video, please. I want to chuckle at Taker's nonsensical means.


I've linked it in the post now because it wasn't coming up on here for me, which I guess is what has happened to you. Enjoy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KOTR 2002 is a really lousy show and that was on semi-finals & finals on the card. Show was never a hot bed for quality in the latter years of its existence. I've never been the biggest tournament show guy as it is. Some out there have been terrific no doubt. Super J Cup '94, Battle of Los Angeles 2011, etc. I've always preferred the format of a round robin tournament instead. Not to mention WWE being on PPV has the detriment of time restrictions too. Which isn't exactly ideal once branding a tournament with a set number of matches needing to take place. It diminishes time while sticking the bunch all on the same show and can effect things that could have been stronger without the need for cramming.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Hmm, I see what you're saying. Outside of the main event, I remember finding that show tolerable if only for the actually King of the Ring tournament matches and Eddie vs. Flair. I wouldn't put any of them at *** or higher though, so I suppose it would have felt like money wasted.

KOTR 2001 was a great show though. Like, really good. Definitely my favourite King of the Ring pay-per-view and one of the overall better pay-per-view's that the WWF put on post-Wrestlemania X7.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, KOTR '01 is cool beans. Huge fan of the brutal triple threat match. Then there is Angle vs Shane. Match is kind of all wrong, yet I watch and can't look away.

As far as the other KOTR PPVs go, I think '97 is the pick for my favorite. That or '96. '93 has some great matches all by virtue of Bret's work in the tournament.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

KOTR 93 is probably the best for that PPV (DAT BRET!). 94 was kinda fun since it had a really good title match and a solid Owen performance with the greatest 5-minute match of all-time. The main event however was horrible. 96 was awesome thanks to that Mankind/Taker match, and 97 and 98 were pretty good as well.

That Taker promo that Jericho interrupted is king. Somehow I was able to decipher what Undertaker was talking about when I was a kid watching it. Jericho was so over back then. A shame that he got buried deep into that Holly/Chyna feud.

Sheamus/Harper ****1/2*
Sheamus/Swagger ****1/2*

Smackdown next week is looking to be really good. Main Event too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just finished NXT. Sheamus vs Harper was boss.

If I were to slap a star rating on Sheamus vs Swagger, that one would peak at the four star minimum. I adored the hell out of their clash. Sheamus went three for three this week. As I said that for about the third time. Mostly b/c it leaves me :mark:

To answer your question, FF - Barreta vs Hawkins did have a series of matches. All were good except for one match that was weirdly bad. It was a win with four out of five being (Y) I think it was five matches total. No matter; they're good stuff.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I love KOTR 2001. My all time favorite wins the tournament and that epic Angle/Shane match. I have that match at ***** and am probably the only person with that rating.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've honestly never seen Harper or Rowan wrestle but from what I'm hearing, they sound awesome.

Going to check out this Harper/Sheamus match real soon.

Edit: Any thoughts on Masters/Reks series from late '10?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Survivor Series: Deadly Games was a great tournament PPV. OK matches, but more for dem SWERVES :russo


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Alim said:


> Survivor Series: Deadly Games was a great tournament PPV. OK matches, but more for dem SWERVES :russo


Was that the tournament with GILLBERG and the 3 second Rock/Bossman match?

If so, I remember that being really fun.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Yeah that was the tournament. I liked watching that event. Regal's only PPV appearance with his real man gimmick.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Russo's greatest night actually.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Trying to think what the best Barreta singles match was/is. Probably vs Danielson on Superstars as that is the only one that is jumping out atm.
> 
> Can't get me started on Scarlett Bordeaux right now. I won't be able to function. :homer


I can't either. Between her and ScarJo, the name "Scarlett" for girls is becoming quite popular for my dick :durant3

Barreta's best singles match? vs Tyson Kidd on NXT Nov. 2011. Pretty incredible.

Oh, and :clap for Jericho/Cena and SS 1998 love around here.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Sheamus/Harper- **3/4, decent match, but nothing special.
Paige/Emma- ***1/2, awesome divas match, just awesome, it shits on AJ/Kaitlyn


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brye said:


> I've honestly never seen Harper or Rowan wrestle but from what I'm hearing, they sound awesome.
> 
> Going to check out this Harper/Sheamus match real soon.
> 
> Edit: *Any thoughts on Masters/Reks series from late '10?*


One of Superstars' biggest hidden gems their matches were. Masters circa 2010-11 was just incredible.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

It's a shame that Masters got his big push 5 years too early, before he really knew what he was doing. I couldn't stand Chris Masters back in 2005. I was really quite annoyed that this green muscle-head was getting so much airtime against such good talent. I wouldn't give him a chance back then.

Then 5 years later, when he's busting his ass on Superstars, working great matches every week; it's WWE who won't give him a chance.

What's funny is that during that time, WWE were dead-set on pushing what's his name (the Welsh bodybuilder)? Mason Ryan. It's as if WWE are only in business to push green muscle-heads. When they actually learn the craft... it's like, fuck this guy - bring in the next Hulk.

I understand the wellness policy issues but Masters couldn't buy trust. You'd think that all those great performances would've at least secured his job. I hope WWE bring him back some day, he's still only 30.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Couldn't agree more. Masters had a lot of kick-ass performances in 2010-11, particularly against Ziggler, Rhodes and McIntyre.

Am I the only one who think that Spot of the Year is still Ohno clicking back his finger after Regal tortured him?


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I know I'm a little late here, but I just had to comment on the match listing for the Goldberg DVD. Personally, I've wanted to see this DVD for years. I got into WCW very late (like, 2007), and there are a handful of matches I've always wanted to see on DVD. I read a lot of the responses (especially on WDN) to the match listing, and I'm in complete agreement. Not only is this match listing a great surprise, as I don't think anyone thought there would be this many matches, especially this many gems, but this is one of the best listings ever. Personally, I've never seen a match listing with so many awesome selections. My thoughts:

-US Title win against Raven is a great addition. I was afraid the listing would start against Hogan, so acknowledgement of his US Title win is great. And this was a fun match, too.

-Great to see a match against Scott Hall, especially the won he won to face Hogan later in the night. This gets the whole story of that night onto the DVD.

-Squash against Hennig was no good, but Hennig is Hennig.

-If I remember correctly, the match against Giant was short, sweet, and historic for the finish.

-Awesome to see his first match vs. Flair and the fourway before Spring Stampede '99.

-In the back of my mind, I really wanted to see the rematch with Kevin Nash, but I never actually thought they would feature it.

-The little-known rematch against DDP?!? Yes!

-Here is where the listing gets awesome. I wanted to see a Goldberg DVD for two reasons: his matches against Sid and Steiner. If the set didn't have either, I wouldn't have bought it. If it had only one, I would've been disappointed. But it has BOTH, and not only that, I never thought they would include the "I Quit" match against Sid, as well. Now I just feel greedy.

-Nice little matches against Sting from HH '99 and Kronik from HH '00.

-His last match in WCW, however weird, is still historically relevant.

-Even the WWE matches are better than expected. The cage match against Christian was pretty good, awesome to see BOTH matches against HHH.

-And even though they were short, reading 'Goldberg vs. Mark Henry' and 'Goldberg vs. Batista' is pretty friggin' cool.

-Even the Blu-ray exclusives are cool. I had no idea he had another match with Sting on Nitro. The matches against Hart and HBK are awesome to see, and the two gems against Bam Bam and the battle royal.


This, to me, is the most comprehensive DVD set ever for one superstar and a sure-fire first-day buy for me. I'm ridiculously excited for this set. Great to see WWE is finally focused on getting in the obvious matches, but the forgotten matches and gems, as well.


----------



## Cally033 (Aug 7, 2012)

*What dvds do you recommend*

Over the next few days I'm having a wwe/Wwf dvd marathon. What dvds do recommend. Thanks


----------



## TheIbar (Apr 26, 2012)

*Re: What dvds do you recommend*

* Breaking The Code - Behind The Walls of Chris Jericho
* The Very Best Of WCW Monday Nitro
* The Rise And Fall Of ECW
* The Monday Night War
* CM Punk: Best in the World
* You Think You Know Me? The Story of Edge

But personally my favorite is not WWE's one. Wrestling Road Diaries with Cabana, Danielson and Rinauro are gold.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7


*Part 8 (140-121)*

*(***1/2)
140 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010









139 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001









138 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006









137 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002









136 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993









135 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002









134 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004









133 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006









132 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005









131 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre









130 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000









129 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008









128 - Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999









127 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992









126 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas









125 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999









124 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999









123 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001









122 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005









121 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
*(***1/2)*
144 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
143 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
142 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
141 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
140 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
139 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
138 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
137 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
136 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
135 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
134 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
133 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
132 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
131 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
130 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
129 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
128 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
127 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
126 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
125 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
124 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
123 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
122 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
121 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001


----------



## nkjimipink (Jun 26, 2013)

*Re: What dvds do you recommend*

Bret Hart: Best There is...

Best of War Games

The Best of Starrcade


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some great matches there on this part of the list. Love the Unforgiven four way the most.


----------



## austin316 G.O.A.T (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: What dvds do you recommend*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just finished:






As part of my Lesnar project, loved the matches with Benjamin and Haas the Smackdown before this, and this handicap tag was a lot of fun. ***3/4


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

*WWF King Of The Ring 1999 Review*​
*Things you should know before watching this show:*
Through the first half of 1999, it came to everybody's knowledge that Vince McMahon's Corporation and Undertaker's Ministry of Darkness were actually alligned the whole time and known as the Coporate Ministry. Vince wanted to get the WWF World Title of Stone Cold Steve Austin, and manipulated a situation where Austin had to try and rescue Stephanie McMahon from Taker during their 'black wedding' and stemming from that was a match at Over The Edge. In the build up to Over The Edge, Shane McMahon alligned with Taker and Taker took the belt off of Austin at the pay-per-view, after which Vince announced he was in on it all along. In the run-up to King of the Ring, Linda McMahon got back at Vince for using the innocent Stephanie as part of his manipulative plan by making Stone Cold the CEO of the WWF, leading to a ladder match at KOTR for the control of the company. It's kinda hard to explain in a way, so you may want to go back and watch some of the early-1999 stuff to get your head round it. Anyway...*showtime!*

After the usual pyro and raucous attitude era crowd camera shots, JR and Lawler do the 'welcome to the show' routine and update us on the events in a Ken Shamrock vs. Shane McMahon match on Sunday Night Heat. Vince was meant to face Shamrock but stood aside and Shane took his place, leaving his status unknown for the main event after a beating from Shamrock. Steve Blackman interfered in the match and annihalated Ken Shamrock with a kendo stick, leaving Shamrock busted up and with internal bleeding. Backstage, Michael Cole announces that Shane may not be able to compete according the Vince. Oh, the crazy attitude era <3

*King of the Ring Quarter Final: Hardcore Holly vs. X-Pac*
I'm fairly sure X-Pac worked this match hurt with a neck or back injury, which may explain why it only goes a couple of minutes. However, whilst the actually content of the match itself isn't bad, it has no real meaning or cohesion or time to expand upon it's content and tell a story. The finish is awful: Hardcore Holly eats a Bronco Buster from X-Pac - who is pretty damn over as a face at the time - so he goes outside, grabs a chair and hits X-Pac with it right in front of the referee, getting himself disqualified. *X-Pac wins, and this match gets a * from me because I'm in a good mood.* After the match, Holly attacks X-Pac some more and Road Dogg makes the save. When asked about his actions in an interview with Terry Taylor after the match, Holly cause himself the big shot and says that we play by my rules and everybody has to live with that. He states he hasn't forgot about Big Show either, and thankfully the interview stops there.

*King of the Ring Quarter Final: Big Show vs. Kane*
During Show's entrance, a video highlights Show trying to crush Hardcore Holly with a car, explaining Holly's beef with Show in a little more detail for those who have watched or re-watched this era as I have. The match actually starts out looking like it might be a good big man bout, but it goes downhill after a spot where Kane comes off the ropes and they try to hit each with a Big Boot at the same time and barely touch eachother. The ref gets bumped, and Hardcore Holly comes out to hit Big Show with a chair but Kane Chokeslams him for even daring to hit Show with the chair during his match. Kane then goozles Show but just ends up choking him for what feels like ages - to the point where the crowd shit all over it - but Show breaks out and Kane blasts him with Holly's chair anyway. *Kane gets the win after the chairshot, and this match gets 3/4* from me because it's seriously that 'ugh'.* Definitely not one of Kane's better matches, and that is coming from a huge Kane mark. The match just became very labouring after a nice throw/Hip Toss by Big Show and Enzuigiri by Kane, the long choke wasn't needed and it feels like Kane just got fed up and hit Show with the chair anyway.

Vince confirms that Shane can't compete in an interview with Michael Cole. 

*King of the Ring Quater Final:* *"Mr. Ass" Billy Gunn vs. Ken Shamrock*
Billy Gunn cuts a promo and calls Shamrock the world's most dangerous horse's ass. Shamrock goes Super Saiyan in the back and launches the EMT's tending to him after Blackman's assault around the backstage area, before coming out to face Gunn. The match is okay, with Billy Gunn working over Shamrock's injured ribs but again, the match is too short for it to have any real quality. The highlight of the match is when Shamrock takes a bump and lets out an audible 'FUCK!' before going for a Hurricanrana, only to be greeted with a Powerbomb that causes him to cough up blood, ending the match. *Billy Gunn gets the victory, and I'll give this match a *3/4 for some decent psychology - though it's nothing we haven't seen before - even if Shamrock doesn't seem to know what to sell half the time.* Oh, and a quick little not: Billy Gunn is actually the Tag Team Champions, I think. He scored the pin in a match where he was teaming with the APA (Acolytes at the time) so he just grabbed one of the belts and pretty much declared himself the Champion. I don't remember it going anywhere, so that gives me reason to be intrigued for the following Raw, right?

*King of the Ring Quarter Final: Chyna (w/ Triple H) vs. Road Dogg*
Road Dogg gets the pop of the night thus far and cuts his usual pre-match promo that the crowd just eats up. During Chyna's entrance, a clip gets shown where Chyna provokes Road Dogg on Heat, but Triple H grabs him and eats a punch, giving Chyna the window of opportunity to Low Blow the Road Dogg. Chyna takes a Triple H-esque bump out to the floor off an Irish Whip, but Triple H sticks his nose in the match and distracts Road Dogg so Chyna can recover and push Road Dogg into the ring post. I never liked Chyna in the ring as I thought she could be pretty boring, which is the same story here whenever she had the momentum. JR asks 'Does she like it doggie style?' when Road Dogg makes a comeback against Chyna, which Triple H tries to prevent only to be sent backstage by Commissioner HBK. With Road Dogg distracted though, it gives Chyan the opportunity for the Low Blow again...but Road Dogg has wisely placed a protective steel cup in his pants which Chyna sells like it broke her arm. *One Pumphandle Slam later, Road Dogg is the winner and JR says 'WE CAN ALL SAY, CHYNA GOT IT DOGGIE STYLE!'. Bar some of Chyna's offense, it's a bearable match, so I'll give it ** stars because it's decent, the crowd are into it and it doesn't drag on at a little over 10 minutes. Wouldn't say no to somebody adding on a quarter or even a half a star if they enjoyed it, though.*

*WWF Tag Team Championship Number One Contenders Match: The Brood (w/ Gangrel) vs. The Hardy Boyz (w/ Michael Hayes)*
On Sunday Night Heat, The Acolytes interfered in this match and attacked everyone, so the match was made again for the main card. JR also clears up the Billy Gunn situation by saying Bradshaw will face Billy Gunn on Raw for the Tag Title belt he basically stole. It isn't a very long match, but it sets a fast pace so they get a lot of neat work in that the fans are really in to. Edge turns Jeff Hardy inside out with a clothesline and Michael Hayes jumps the top rope and receives a Spear for trying to get involed, but the highlight of the match is Matt and Jeff going for the Poetry in Motion with Edge quickly pulling himself onto the second rope and leaping off into Jeff with a Spear. An enjoyable match that I haven't seen many people praise - definitely one to check out. *Hardyz win after Gangrel accidentally spits red liquid out of his chalice into Edge's face and Jeff hits the Twist of Fate. Gets *** from me, seriously. This is how shorter matches should be done.*

Vinnie Mac comes out to loud 'Asshole!' chants and says Shane is injured and can't compete. Shawn Michaels comes out and tells Vince he basically calls the shots and Vince says he'll have a suitable replacement.

*King of the Ring Semi Final: "Mr. Ass" Billy Gunn vs. Kane*
First semi-final bout of the night, and King brings up Kane stopping Holly from hitting Big Show with the chair but Kane doing it anyway. At this point, I can only guess it's a nod at how unhinged the Kane character was. Billy Gunn over-sells Kane smashing his face off the ring steps and he literally does a 'Flair flop' on the floor where it looks like his face bounces off the ground, in one of the only noteworthy things from the match. Admittedly, Gunn does hit an impressive dropkick that sends the ring steps back into Kane's face as Kane goes to hit Gunn with them...which would surely get him disqualified? Right. Anyways, the match slows right down before Kane hits Gunn with an impressive dropkick for a guy his size. Big Show comes to the ring and belts Kane with the chair with the ref not watching, and Gunn rolls Kane up for the win. *"Mr. Ass" wins in a rather bleak match with one or two cool spots but it's too slow and labouring to be good. It gets 1/2* from me, because it's just not good enough.*

*King of the Ring Semi Final: Road Dogg vs. X-Pac*
Second semi now, and both men cut pre-match promos about wrestling each other as good friends but wanting nothing more than to win. Again, it's just too short. These pair do their normal spots and moves, but there is no real story or psychology. *X-Pac wins off an X Factor after a couple of minutes, and I'm giving it *.* This baffles me in a way, becuase whilst X-Pac was over, so was Road Dogg and surely it would've made sense to have the injured worker lose and the two former Outlaws wrestle in the final to settle their feud? Strange one.

*WWF World Championship: The Rock vs. The Undertaker (w/ Paul Bearer (C)*
This is almost your typical WWF Title match for this period of the attitude era. A lot of brawling: at one point they end up up by the entrance set and Paul Bearer eventually gets involved and twats The Rock with his shoe. The referee ends up taking a bump and The Rock hits Undertaker with the Peoples Elbow, but the referee can't count it - a recurring theme in the match, with The Rock seemingly having put Taker down on a few occasions. Paul Bearer hands Undertaker an ether-soaked rag but it backfires and The Rock smothers Taker with it, but Triple H gets involved and downs Rock with a Pedigree. Taker recovers and hits The Rock with a Tombstone, and the referee wakes up to count the pin. *Undertaker retains the title, and this is a **1/2 match. Definitely not either worker's best work, but it's bearable. Maybe goes 5 minutes too long, however...5 minutes that could've perhaps gone to an earlier match to give it more time to be a better bout.*

Backstage, Triple H is being escorted out of the arena and Vince McMahon is going wild saying 'he's my tag team partner!' but Shawn tells him 'No shit, Sherlock!'. Vince gets on the phone and tells somebody to turn around and come back to help him out. All becomes clear later in the show if I remember correctly, as this segment does seem a little random.

*King of the Ring Final: "Mr. Ass" Billy Gun vs. X-Pac*
Once again, very short but if X-Pac was genuinely hurt as I'm lead to believe he was at the time, I suppose that's understandable but in that case it doesn't make sense to put him in the final anyway. X-Pac hits a nice plancha but Gunn turns things around and hits the Fameasser, which doesn't actually put X-Pac down. X-Pac comes back but it's not enough and after only a few minutes, Gunn hit's an albeit pretty cool top-rope Fameasser for the victory. *Billy Gunn is the 1999 King of the Ring, in a strange move that lead to a failed push and an awful feud with The Rock over the summer. This gets *.*

*Handicap Ladder Match for control of the WWF: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The McMahons*
Vince tries to introduce Steve Blackman as his 'suitable replacement' but then GTV (remember that) reveals that Shane is chilling in the back with the Mean Street Posse and he isn't hurt at all, so Shawn Michaels orders his ass to the ring and gets rid of Steve Blackman. Austin gets a thunderous pop and heads to the ring to open a can of whoop ass in the main event for the night, and Shane and Vince try to walk away but in typical Austin fashion he follows them and beats the shit out of them. The coolest part of the match comes when Shane climbs up onto a platform of ladders that makes up the King of the Ring set, and Austin follows him up there, beating him up until he knocks Shane off it. Austin continues to beat on Shane and Vince and pulls the ladder platform down, crushing Shane and Vince, and winds up putting Shane through the announcers table, too. Austin takes a stiff bump onto the announcers table off of a ladder, but the table doesn't budge and Austin's head cracks off of a steel chair, which must've hurt. The match continues until Austin seems to have everything said and done, and he climbs the ladder but the briefcase that he needs to pull down gets pulled upwards and out of his reach. Austin gets tipped off of the ladder, and Shane manages to crawl up it and pull down the briefcase which is lowered down for him to grab by whoever is controlling it. *Shane and Vince win, and whilst the finish is a little 'meh' and there isn't anything breath-taking about the match, it is okay. I suppose it is unique as it is a handicap ladder match which makes for a different dynamic, certainly, and they did all they could with the aging Vince to make it a decent bout. **1/2 from me.*

*Overall:* I would feel ripped off if I had been the one who bought the pay-per-view at the time. Awful pay-per-view that one or two good matches can't save. Saturating the card with quarter finals didn't help, as the show picked up after all of those bouts. Without the quarter finals, there would have been six matches on the card, meaning you could've given the tag team match more time to really put on a show and you could've added in another bout for a mid-card title just to add something else that's meaningful to the card. Even a Hardcore Title match would've been fun! Anyways, overall, I'd give this pay-per-view a 3/10: whilst there is some steady matches, none of them are spectacular and a lot of the show is forgettable or just not good. I wouldn't recommend it!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 5 Cage matches of the decade (2003-2013)?

I guess mine would be:

Edge/Matt UF '05 (****1/2)
HHH/Flair TT '05 (****1/2)
Eddie/Rey SD '05 (****1/4)
HHH/Lesnar ER '13 (****1/4)
Flair/Orton TT '04 (****)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 5 Cage matches 2003-2013? Hm...

(****)
1) Edge vs. Matt Hardy Unforgiven 2005
(***3/4)
2) Punk vs. Jeff Hardy SD 09
3) Flair vs. HHH TT 05
(***1/2)
4) Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio SD 2009
5) Undertaker vs. Batista SD 2007


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Forever Unchained said:


> Anyone got a Top 10 ECW/WCW match list for Eddie Guerrero and Rey Mysterio Jr. ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks a lot man, I have Netflix and the undertaker tombstone set is on there, I will def check out the stone cold and legacy DVDs tho, along with cm punk. I just wish the punk set had his roh matches, especially the ones with Somoa joe


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

2003-2013 cage matches:

HHH/Flair - *****1/2*
Edge/Matt - *****1/2*
HHH/Lesnar - *****1/4*
Punk/Jeff - ******
Probably Eddie/Rey, wouldn't know what to rate it though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Forgot about Punk/Jeff, that was awesome.

Also, find it funny at the big ass number of people on the Internet who complain about Ryback's psychology (not that they're too much to blame, though), yet give Angle/Benoit matches *****. But, to each their own I guess.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

My favourite Angle vs. Benoit match has to be the one they had at Unforgiven 2002. Some nice reversal sequences, an awesome German Suplex on Angle, Angle's GOAT running belly-to-belly he does off the top rope (awesome move when done crisp and fluidly) and Benoit's psychology when they do that Tombstone reveral sequence is awesome. Having worked the shoulder all match, Benoit and Angle to the Tombstone reversal sequence that HHH and Taker did at Mania XXVII and I'm sure Eddie and Benoit did it at Vengeance 2003, and basically instead of doing a slam or a Tombstone, he does the Shoulderbreaker onto his knee. Awesome stuff. There is also a really cool deal where Angle gets the Ankle Lock on whilst in the Crippler Crossface and it just looks brilliant.

Would give that ****1/2. If they'd been given 5 or 10 more minutes, a lot more people would rate that match as high as I do in my 'favourite matches of all time', I'm sure. My only gripe with the match would be the finish, but I suppose it only added to their feud and made their tag team run that followed even more intriguing to watch. 

*Here is the match, for those interested. Every bit as good as their one at Wrestlemania X7 imo:* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8iT0zIvKI0


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

TheeJayBee said:


> My favourite Angle vs. Benoit match has to be the one they had at Unforgiven 2002.


ditto. i just rewatched their match at RR 03 a couple days ago. meh. put over Benoit huge but other than that idk. not rating it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since SummerSlam is coming up soon, I've decided to download every show and rate them, later to use for a top 50 matches list. For some reason, I started with 2001!

Edge/Lance Storm - ★★★¼
Test & Dudley Boyz/APA & Spike Dudley - ★★¾
X-Pac/Tajiri - ★★★
Chris Jericho/Rhyno - ★★★
RVD/Jeff Hardy - ★★★¼
Undertaker & Kane/Kanyon & DDP - ★★
Stone Cold/Kurt Angle - ★★★★¾
The Rock/Booker T - ★★★¼

Overall: ★★★★ out of ★★★★★

Gotta say the video package for the steel cage tag match had me rolling. Why, oh, why did they have DDP do this stupid stalking thing? :lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Summerslam 01 is one of my fav.PPV's, everything was great. I had Austin/Angle at ****3/4 after the first watch, now it's at ****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheeJayBee said:


> My favourite Angle vs. Benoit match has to be the one they had at Unforgiven 2002. Some nice reversal sequences, an awesome German Suplex on Angle, Angle's GOAT running belly-to-belly he does off the top rope (awesome move when done crisp and fluidly) and Benoit's psychology when they do that Tombstone reveral sequence is awesome. Having worked the shoulder all match, Benoit and Angle to the Tombstone reversal sequence that HHH and Taker did at Mania XXVII and I'm sure Eddie and Benoit did it at Vengeance 2003, and basically instead of doing a slam or a Tombstone, he does the Shoulderbreaker onto his knee. Awesome stuff. There is also a really cool deal where Angle gets the Ankle Lock on whilst in the Crippler Crossface and it just looks brilliant.
> 
> Would give that ****1/2. If they'd been given 5 or 10 more minutes, a lot more people would rate that match as high as I do in my 'favourite matches of all time', I'm sure. My only gripe with the match would be the finish, but I suppose it only added to their feud and made their tag team run that followed even more intriguing to watch.
> 
> *Here is the match, for those interested. Every bit as good as their one at Wrestlemania X7 imo:* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8iT0zIvKI0


UF '02 is my favourite match of theirs too, and the only one I'd put around **** range (even if I'm a sucker for the WM 17 match too) of their series. There actually was pretty good storytelling, with the two trying to outsmart rather than just outwrestle each other, since both were heels att. And, unlike RR, they didn't simply said "Fuck it" and go mental with Germans and no-sells. Not perfect obv., but still really enjoyed it.



Choke2Death said:


> Since SummerSlam is coming up soon, I've decided to download every show and rate them, later to use for a top 50 matches list. For some reason, I started with 2001!
> 
> Edge/Lance Storm - ★★★¼
> Test & Dudley Boyz/APA & Spike Dudley - ★★¾
> ...


I have Austin/Angle at ***** tbh. Just perfect storytelling.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Poor DDP.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Summerslam 2001 is awesome, that Edge/Storm opener is a forgotten gem. Storm's reversal into the Boston Crab is just beautiful. C2D will know what I mean since he just watched it, love that sequence.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm glad you share my love for their Unforgiven 2002 match. That's the perfect heel vs. heel match for wrestlers of that in-ring style.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam 2001 is ideally my favorite PPV. If not the universal SummerSlam 2002. Doesn't matter; watched that show a thousand times and plan to watch it a thousand times more. It's excellent. X-Pac vs Tajiri _(the great)_ :mark:

------------

Benoit vs Angle from Unforgiven 2002 is shit.

----------------

Nice KOTR '99 review. (Y)

I agreed with your MOTN - it was def Hardys vs Edge & Christian for me too. Short doesn't matter - b/c a lot on that night was - quality is the only thing that does.

--------------

Modern day cage match love is pretty universal. We know the standouts. Although I'd love to go back and see Jericho vs Punk & Jericho vs Batista from 2008. Been meaning to watch Undertaker vs Show from 2008 too. Why they're all '08, idk. Feel like a refresher course would be more suited in case I prefer one of those to any that has already been listed. Both Hardy steel cage matches are the tops for me: Matt vs Edge from Unforgiven & Jeff vs Punker from Smackdown. Those are amazing stuff.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Ric Flair and HBK vs. La Familia from Smackdown 08 is a cage match that often gets overlooked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Sheamus/Harper- **3/4, decent match, but nothing special.
> Paige/Emma- ***1/2, awesome divas match, just awesome, it shits on AJ/Kaitlyn


Heaven's no.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> I have Austin/Angle at ***** tbh. Just perfect storytelling.


I do want to go all the way to 5 with it, but there's something that stops me. Don't know what exactly, but something keeps me from giving it the full five. Maybe a few more rewatches convinces me to add another match to my ★★★★★. After all, all it took was a second watch to get Angle/Taker NWO into that special list.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> Summerslam 2001 is awesome, that Edge/Storm opener is a forgotten gem. Storm's reversal into the Boston Crab is just beautiful. C2D will know what I mean since he just watched it, love that sequence.


Haha, I gotta say that moment is escaping me. This was the first PPV which I watched without skipping a single second (meaning I sat through promo packages, backstage segments and all that shit. Luckily there was no filler in-between stuff, making it a sweet show) so I don't remember every bit from the top of my head. First two spots that I recall enjoying from the opener are Storm reversing the Crucifix into the inverted Samoan Drop (the thing Cole always calls "Rolling Senton" when Sheamus does it) and Edge pulling himself up using the ropes and getting Storm into the Half Crab.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Favorite Summerslam *main events*?

Mine are:

Rock/Brock - SS 2002
Edge/Taker - SS 2008

Favorite Summerslam matches of *all time*?

Mine are:

Rock/Triple H - SS 1998
Benoit/Jericho - SS 2000
Triple H/Shawn Michaels - SS 2002
Orton/Christian - SS 2011

Need to check out Angle Lesnar (2003), Austin/Angle (2001), Flair/Foley (2006)


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

HayleySabin, thanks for that. Short doesn't necessarily 'matter', but it can be very restrictive on the competitors in the match and doesn't leave a lot of room for telling a good story, is all. With guys like The Hardyz and E&C it is okay because they set a blistering pace that compliments their styles extremely well, but a lot of the matches on that card needed 3 or 4 minutes more, IMO. 

Very disappointed with that comment on Angle vs. Benoit at Unforgiven 2002, though! 

---

I like cage matches but these days I don't think they're done right. A cage match should always be the feud ender to a heated rivalry where the two guys are out to kill each other and when they're in the cage they have nowhere to run when the beating gets too much. A brutal, bloody battle is the way to go with cage matches: nothing more, nothing less. If you get in there and make it a hard-hitting match that tells a great story, then you're on the way to have a great cage match, imo.

Just to add my two cents, I always loved the Hardy/Edge cage match and the Eddie/Rey cage match. Both very well executed and the emotions they bring out...awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll try with the favorite SummerSlam matches based on memory:

Favorite main event: Rock/Brock 2002, Orton/Benoit 2004, Cena/Orton 2007
Favorite matches (main events aside): Benoit/Jericho 2000, Austin/Angle 2001, Benoit/RVD 2002, Brock/Angle 2003, Cena/Jericho & Orton/Taker 2005, Batista/Cena 2008, Orton/Christian 2011


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Favorite Summerslam *main events*?
> 
> Mine are:
> 
> ...


*My personal favourite Summerslam matches of all time:*

1.) British Bulldog vs. Bret Hart - Summerslam 1992.
2.) TLC I - Summerslam 2000.
3.) Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H - Summerslam 2002.
4.) The Rock vs. HHH vs. Kurt Angle - Summerslam 2000.
5.) Edge vs. The Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell match - Summerslam 2008.
6.) Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold - Summerslam 2001.
7.) Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mystero - Summerslam 2002.
8.) Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar - Summerslam 2003.
9.) Mick Foley vs. Ric Flair - Summerslam 2006.
10.) CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy in a TLC Match - Summerslam 2009.

My top 10 favourite Summerslam matches. Thinking back and trying to remember my favourite matches, these were the first 10 that come to mind and I've just spent a couple of minutes trying to order them. Bulldog vs. Bret is the only match from that kind of era that I love enough to go back and watch again and again, because a.) I'm English and it was Bulldog and at the old Wembley and b.) It's a great, great match - easily Bulldog's best in the WWE and one of Bret's better ones, too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually I do remember one Angle/Benoit match I prefer over the Unforgiven '02 one - the 2 Out Of 3 Falls match from Judgment Day '01. That was legit close to incredible imo. The sheer emotion alone on that match was visible when Angle played a dead serious, vicious sob from his very entrance. And just a great match overall. The Ladder portion is like a Ladder match version of the Benoit/Regal matches, just a hard-hitting, sickening fight.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I think Bret Hart vs. Undertaker from Summerslam 97 is starting to get criminally underrated. That's a big time main event if there ever was one. It's a little on the slow side, but really picks up near the end and has awesome storytelling throughout. *****3/4*


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

How on earth did I forget that one? Awesome match. Awesome. Would put it at being every bit as good as Unforgiven 2002, but I don't know if I prefer it or not...hmm.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Unforgiven was very good, but it was more of an intelligent version of Royal Rumble '03. JD '01 was straight up brilliant in all aspects, I'd take it over UF easily.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wait taker/bret ss 97 is awesome
---
Just watched cena/rey from raw 11 again. Shit this is a great match and I can only think of a few cena matches better. I love the pacing and how their both caucious. Cena was pretty good in this highflyer/brawler type match and didnt even throw a punch


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

my favorite summerslam match is probably bret/perfect from '91 followed by '01 with austin/angle and '08 edge/taker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent review, TheeJayBee. Please do some more with the Attitude Era. We don't get enough of it here for some reason. I actually found a little gem from 99 that's worth a watch: Road Dogg vs. Al Snow on the same night as the Mankind incident (1/4/99). Very good hardcore match.

Angle/Benoit Unforgiven 2002 is king. Best heel/heel match ever in mainstream wrestling. 2/3 Falls that ATF mentioned is really good too.

Couple makeshift lists:

Top 5 Cage Matches:

5. Bryan/Henry SD 2011
4. Orton/Flair Taboo Tuesday 2004
3. Triple H/Flair Taboo Tuesday 2005
2. Punk/Hardy SD 2009
1. Hardy/Edge Unforgiven 2005

And Top 20 Summerslam Matches:

20. Warrior/Savage 92
19. Cena/Batista 08
18. Mysterio/Angle 02
17. Rock/Lesnar 02
16. Benoit/Jericho 00
15. Hart Foundation/Brainbusters 89
14. Orton/Taker 05
13. HBK/HHH 02
12. Undertaker/Edge 08
11. Lesnar/Angle 03
10. Orton/Christian 11
9. HHH/Rock 98
8. Orton/Benoit 04
7. Bret/Undertaker 97
6. Punk/Cena 11
5. Punk/Hardy 09
4. Angle/Austin 01
3. TLC I
2. Bret/Bulldog 92
1. Bret/Perfect 91

Yup, this is Bret's PPV.

Smackdown was pretty good this week. Get a look at Face Henry :henry1


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Am I seriously seeing lists of SummerSlam matches without the HBK/Razor ladder from SS95 :/ 


On the topic of cage matches, I always though Rock vs HHH from the Rebellion 99 UK show was good fun.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK tantrum in the 95 ladder match adds at least 3/4*.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you know what, Ive never seen in completion punk/cena, hart bros, and have never seen hbk/razor ladder 2 or even austin/angle. I guess I know what Im watching later


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Forever Unchained said:


> On the topic of cage matches, I always though Rock vs HHH from the Rebellion 99 UK show was good fun.


 Another underrated cage match is between Angle and Edge in SD! 2002. Austin vs Rock is another one that rarely gets mentioned but that's mainly because it was just used to introduce the Two Man Power Trip and write the Rock off screen for a while. 

On the topic of WWF 1997, it's getting better. Stories are finally being advanced which is to be expected with the new two hour format. Bret Hart seems to be in a feud with Austin and HBK to some extend and HHH's IC title reign is still going on strong. Bulldog and Owen Hart keep on accidently attacking each other during matches but from what I remember from the Summer of 97, they were both together as a team so it would be interesting how this storyline plays out. Nation of Domination are slowly developing with Ahmed Johnson (who is up there with the worst mic talkers of all time) feuding with the nation and Savio Vega recently joined the faction.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> you know what, Ive never seen in completion punk/cena, hart bros, and have never seen hbk/razor ladder 2 or even *austin/angle*. I guess I know what Im watching later


I haven't seen this either, nor do I remember much about the Hart cage.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> HBK tantrum in the 95 ladder match adds at least 3/4*.


:lmao

Classic 90's HBK.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havn't seen Austin/Angle? 










C'mon fella's (check my sig )


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

So Whats your top 5 matches for 
Summerslam
Survivor series
Royal rumble
Wrestlemania

Is there any matches that are just plain out fun?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Seen SD, pretty good episode.

Sandow in the final segment was hilarious :lmao


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

96powerstroker said:


> So Whats your top 5 matches for
> Summerslam
> Survivor series
> Royal rumble
> ...


You can see my top 5 on my Summerslam list a page or two back, but for the others (not in order):

*Survivor Series*
Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin at Survivor Series 1996.
Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff at Survivor Series 2003.
Team WWF vs. Team WCW at Survivor Series 2001.
First ever Elimination Chamber match at Survivor Series 2002.
Montreal Screwjob/Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels at Survivor Series 1997. Great match pre-screwjob.

*Royal Rumble*
Royal Rumble Match at Royal Rumble 2001.
Chris Jericho vs. The Rock at Royal Rumble 2002.
Edge vs. Shawn Michaels at Royal Rumble 2005.
Cactus Jack vs. Triple H in a No Holds Barred match at Royal Rumble 2000.
Royal Rumble Match at Royal Rumble 2004.

*Wrestlemania*
Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania 21.
Kane vs. Undertaker at Wrestlemania 14.
Triangle Ladder match at Wrestlemania 16/2000.
Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker at Wrestlemania 25.
Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania 19.

The Wrestlemania one was very difficult as I rank Austin and Rock's last two Mania matches together pretty much on a par with all the others on my list. By the way, I'm no way saying some of these are the best matches at their respective events (understand one or two of my Mania choices will get flak, possibly Edge/HBK at the Rumble and so on) but these are the ones that I either saw growing up or have re-watched since that I still find to be my favourites for a number of factors.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Hmm, top 5 of the big 4?

I'll do Royal Rumble off the top of my head:



1) Cactus Jack v HHH Royal Rumble 2000
2) Benoit v Jericho Royal Rumble 2001
3) Benoit v Angle Royal Rumble 2003
4) Royal Rumble 92 rumble match
5) Bret Hart v Diesel Royal Rumble 95



Honourable mentions
Rockers v Orient Express Royal Rumble 1991
The Rock v Chris Jericho Royal Rumble 2002
Dudleys v Hardys Royal Rumble 2000
Cena v Umaga Royal Rumble 2007
Rock v Mankind Royal Rumble 1999


Lots of gimmick matches. Can't think of anything standout from 2008-2013 though I remember really liking Rey Mysterio v Undi from Royal Rumble 2010. I probably left some good ones out. Bret v Taker from 96 is a personal fav though people often shit on it. Marty v Shawn and Bret v Razor aren't as good as they should have been though I've not watched them in a while.




........


Top 5 SummerSlam matches:

Bret v Perfect
Bret v Davey Boy
Bret v Owen
Shawn v Razor
Bret v Taker
TLC I
Austin v Angle
Angle v Brock

.... Urgh, I give up. I'm just typing all these great matches out but I can't cut it down to a top 5 so I-ve given up listing them.


Top 5 SummerSlam cards:

2002
2000
2009
1998
1992


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> :lmao
> 
> Classic 90's HBK.


Seriously 90s HBK may be my favorite character ever.


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

I haven't seen every match, but these would probably be the consensus top 5 for each event.

Royal Rumble
Royal Rumble match - 1992
Triple H vs. Cactus Jack - 2000
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho - 2001
Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - 2003
Royal Rumble match - 2004

WrestleMania
Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat - WM3
Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - W10
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - WM13
The Rock vs. Steve Austin - WM17
Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - WM25

SummerSlam
Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith - 1992
Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - 1995
Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle - 2001
Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels - 2002
Christian vs. Randy Orton - 2011

Survivor Series
Tag Team Variation match - 1988
Diesel vs. Bret Hart - 1995
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - 1996
Elimination Chamber - 2002
Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff - 2003


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The end of this promo is priceless. The crowd started a "SHAWN IS GAY" chant and at the end of his promo he called out some random whore in the crowd and said "C'mere sweetie, let's show 'em how gay I am" and made out with her. :lmao THE MAN


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

who didnt love Shawn is the real question ^^^:lmao at that promo, watching 1997, I see so many "Shawn is gay" signs


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 25 Summerslam Matches:



Spoiler: for top 25



(***1/2)
25) Undertaker vs. Austin 1998
24) HBK and HHH vs. Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibiase 2009
(***3/4)
23) Kane vs. Rey Mysterio 2010
22) Edge vs. Matt Hardy 2005
21) Hogan vs. HBK 2005
20) Undertaker vs. Orton 2005
19) Cena, Edge, Jericho, Bryan, Bret Hart, Morrison, and Truth vs. Barrett, Slater, Tarver, Sheffield, Darren Young, Otunga, and Gabriel 2010
18) Barrett vs. Bryan 2011
17) HBK vs. Razor Ramon 1995
16) Chris Benoit vs. RVD 2002
15) Orton vs. Cena 2007
14) HHH vs. Eugene 2004
13) Angle vs. Mysterio 2002
(****)
12) Punk vs. Cena 2011
11) Batista vs. Cena 2008
10) Rock vs. HHH 1998
9) Undertaker vs. Bret Hart 1997
8) Rock vs. Brock Lesnar 2002
7) Orton vs. Benoit 2004
6) HBK vs. HHH 2002
5) Orton vs. Christian 2011
(****1/4)
4) Punk vs. Jeff Hardy 2009
3) Lesnar vs. Angle 2003
(****1/2)
2) Undertaker vs. Edge 2008
(****3/4)
1) Austin vs. Angle 2001


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Excellent review, TheeJayBee. Please do some more with the Attitude Era. We don't get enough of it here for some reason. I actually found a little gem from 99 that's worth a watch: Road Dogg vs. Al Snow on the same night as the Mankind incident (1/4/99). Very good hardcore match.


Thanks, mate. I will definitely review one of the upcoming PPVs: Fully Loaded '99, Summerslam '99 or Unforgiven '99. Depends how much I'm liking the build into them. Will definitely do pretty much everything of worth in 2000, though, because that is just the GOAT year.

As I'm working through 1999 I've seen the match you're on about. Very fun little bout thrown in on that show. The Hardcore Title was exactly that at this point - a fun title. Used to get some enjoyable little undercard bouts thanks to that belt.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

The amazing thing about the SummerSlam 95 ladder match is that Vince told Razor and Shawn that they couldn't use the ladder as a weapon like they did at Mania X since both were babyfaces. It was different at Mania X obviously cause Shawn was heel but it was amazing that they were able to pull off a babyface ladder match much like the Diesel v Bret Rumble match which used a chair as a weppon since wWF babyface matches in 1995 were not easy to pull off.

Haven't seen it in a while actually so I can't remember who the crowd were rooting for but I remember some good selling of the leg by Shawn (well, at least until he stopped selling as HBK is wont to do)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I haven't seen this either, nor do I remember much about the Hart cage.


I'm going to make you watch Austin vs Angle.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

*Raw opening in the attitude era:* heavy rock music, crowd is going wild and there is a huge pyro display. JR and 'The King' welcome people to the show with enthusiasm and excitement.
*
Raw opening in 2013:* song plays over an opening video, fades into a picture of a very average-at-best crowd with few waving signs or making any noise. Michael Cole talks loudly and with forced enthusiasm to try and make everything seem more wild than it is.

Re-watching the Attitude Era is only making me feel worse about some of the stuff we put up with these days...sigh.

Anyways, just finished watching the episode of Raw that followed King of the Ring '99. Austin gave himself a new contract when he had control of the WWF that states he can open a can of whoop ass on Vince whenever he likes and he also booked himself a WWF Title match in the main event, which he won. After the match, Taker busted Austin open in a post-match assault which will no doubt set up their Fully Loaded '99 first blood match. Oh, and look out for the Hardcore Holly vs. Kane match on YouTube where Big Show interferes and attacks Kane, and Kane goes on a post-match rampage where he Chokeslams Hardcore Holly...four times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hate the comparisons from "then" to "now". The 80's were a hot bed too. Why is that never brought up? Only this precious Attitude Era. Wrestling was at its most popular. If that moment was now people would be looking at this era in the same light. It's a comparison that's not even valid. A product during a time when wrestling was super popular compared to a time when wrestling isn't the coolest thing on the block. That's no excuse for shoddy booking, however there is no reason only dub one era in the companies history as good all b/c the atmosphere was hotter. If anything, the only thing to look back on and say "I wished it was like that now" is how fleshed out the roster was. It felt like more people had a persona - right down to the jobbers. That's not solely an Attitude Era exclusive either. Rosters had depth and better character exposure even in the Ruthless Aggression era.

Never been a guy to prefer any specific era of the WWE to another. All is fun, all of it as the elements and moments I like, and all have their bad. Modern days is the lack of character depth among the roster _(although NXT is a beacon of light)_ & for Attitude Era it was the wrestling generally being crap and on the backburner.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Since it was brought up before (top 5 for each of the big 4), here are my top 10 for the big 4 (except Summerslam, since I posted a top 25 above):



Spoiler: Top 10 for each



Royal Rumble (non-Rumble match):
(****3/4)
1) Benoit vs. Angle 2003
2) Foley vs. HHH 2000
3) Benoit vs. Jericho 2001
(****1/2)
4) Cena vs. Umaga 2007
(****)
5) Rock vs. Jericho 2002
6) Edge vs. Ziggler 2011
7) Rock vs. Mankind 1999
(***3/4)
8) Taker vs. HBK 1998
(***1/2)
9) Orton vs. Jeff Hardy 2008
10) Angle vs. HHH 2001

Wrestlemania:
(*****)
1) Taker vs. HBK WM25
2) Austin vs. Bret Hart WM13
(****3/4)
3) Taker vs. Punk WM29
4) Bret vs. Owen WM10
(****1/2)
5) Rock vs. Austin WM17
6) Taker vs. HBK WM26
7) Taker vs. Batista WM23
8) HBK vs. Jericho WM19
(****1/4)
9) HBK vs. Razor WM10
10) Austin vs. Rock WM19

Survivor Series:
(****1/4)
1) Austin vs. Bret 1996
2) Elimination Chamber 2002
(****)
3) HBK vs. Orton 2007
4) Taker vs Batista 2007
5) Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff 2003
6) Team WWE vs. The Alliance 2001
(***3/4)
7) Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw 2005
8) Cena vs. HBK vs. HHH 2009
(***1/2)
9) Punk vs. Del Rio 2011
10) Team Orton vs. Team HHH 2004


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Alim said:


> I think Bret Hart vs. Undertaker from Summerslam 97 is starting to get criminally underrated. That's a big time main event if there ever was one. It's a little on the slow side, but really picks up near the end and has awesome storytelling throughout. *****3/4*


Agreed. Repped. Fantastic match. I have no problem with a match being slow at first and building up if a good story is being told.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Bret Hart matches from 1997 can go burn in hell. I can't even finish them most of the time. The only Undertaker matches where the boredom level is actually high. nothing like a bunch of leg work that goes nowhere. Oh boy. Long matches for the sake of being long. That stuff is the worst.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive never seen their ON0 97 match, ss97 pretty good just a tad slow. Just watched hbk/jarrett iyh, just so much fun


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Top 26 (in honor of the 26th Summerslam) fave Summerslam matches....couldnt think of one to remove so I said F it....no order either

Savage & Hogan V DiBiase & Andre- 1988
Hart Foundation V Arn & Tully- 1989
Hart Foundation V Demolition- 1990
Bret Hart V Perfect- 1991
Savage V Warrior- 1992 (wish Savage had gone over clean in this one!!!!!)
Bret Hart V Davey Boy- 1992
Bret V Owen- 1994
HBK V Razor- 1995
Foley V Taker- 1996
Foley V HHH- 1997 (anyone else miss the blue cage?  )
Bret V Taker-1997 (if there is any doubt who Mr. Summerslam is….well)
HHH V Rock- 1998
Austin V Taker- 1998
Mankind V HHH V Austin- 1999
TLC 1- 2000
Austin V Angle- 2001
Angle V Rey- 2002
RVD V that one guy- 2002
HBK V HHH-2002
Brock V Rock- 2002
Angle V Brock-2003
Eddie V Rey- 2005
Flair V Foley- 2006
Taker V Edge- 2008
Punk V Hardy- 2009
Brock V HHH-2012


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ONO is basically SummerSlam, skins, only with a DQ finish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Backlash 2007:*

Jeff & Matt Hardy vs Trevor Murdoch & Lance Cade - ★★¼
- Just your standard tag match, not bad but nothing memorable either. Good opener to warm up to the crowd but can't say much else.

Melina vs Mickie James - ★½
- The double splits aside, I don't think there's anything to remember from this.

Chris Benoit vs MVP - ★★★¼
- They get more time than Wrestlemania but the match is slightly inferior. Benoit is always on his game and this night is no different. MVP continues to look strong by escaping both the Sharpshooter and Crossface plus he gets in quite a bit of offense and loses by a roll-up. With that said, his offense is pretty dull at times and very Kennedy-ish with lots of restholds which brings this down a little. Kinda funny they'd go two PPVs in a row against each other and wear the exact same attire both times.

Bobby Lashley vs Umaga, Vince & Shane McMahon - ½★
- Fuck, I _hate_ this stupid feud. The match is a complete bore that runs for too long and the ending is pretty stupid too. If there was any respect for the ECW Championship, it was all gone when Vince won it here. The icing on the cake is him mocking the ECW originals right after in the backstage segment.

Undertaker vs Batista - ★★★★
- Excellent rematch following their Wrestlemania classic. This one is a Last Man Standing and they work the stipulation to perfection. Plenty of great back and forth and good nearfalls. Both men look strong by getting up from every move they have in their respective movesets. Also a good finish to keep both men strong as Batista spears Undertaker into the Backlash set which crashes and blows up, causing both men to not be able to get up. A draw but a great match and one of the best LMS in history.

John Cena vs Shawn Michaels vs Randy Orton vs Edge - ★★★★¼
- One of the best fatal four ways I can think of. This one is just fast paced with nonstop action and they keep the "throw whoever out until only two are in the ring then repeat the process with the others outside" cliché to a minimum and simply go at it from all angles. plenty of cool spots throughout, great nearfalls, good heel tactics by Edge and a hell of a finishing stretch with everyone taking turns hitting their finishing move until Cena gets lucky and lands on Orton for the pinfall victory.

*Overall:* ★★★½ out of ★★★★★ (A pretty good PPV and possibly the best in 2007. Two great main events and a decent US title match. The rest of the card is forgettable but not even that stupid handicap match is enough to bring down the great parts of this show.)


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Dolph Ziggler vs. Antonio Cesaro - WWE Main Event 7/10/13: ***3/4*

Heard a lot of good things about this match and it certainly delivers. The match starts off evenly matched but Dolph quickly gets the upper hand on Cesaro by using his quickness, countering his moves, and showing off. Cesaro gets frustrated and goes outside to regroup with Zeb and Swagger. Momentum of the match shifts with Cesaro doing the stun gun on Ziggler. Dolph pulls off being the babyface quite well in this match by selling like a madman (i.e. Cesaro's uppercuts) and Cesaro's strength is displayed greatly (i.e. deadlift gutwrentch suplexes and superplex from the apron). The match escalates to exciting back and forth action which ends with Ziggler doing the Zig-Zag. Swagger breaks up the pin, therefore Dolph wins by disqualification (which is my only gripe with the match: the ending) Ziggler gets the upper hand on Swagger, Cesaro, and Coulter and leaves, giving the impression that they are not worth his time therefore living by his "Show Off" moniker. Despite the ending, I thought that this was a really good match with two great talents.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tag match is kind of my favorite on that whole show, tbhayley.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Taker/Bret ONO is also a work of art. Fantastic old school wrestling by the both of them and I give it the same rating as Summerslam *****3/4*

I haven't seen their Royal Rumble encounter in a long ass time. Did they have any other televised matches?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Alim said:


> Taker/Bret ONO is also a work of art. Fantastic old school wrestling by the both of them and I give it the same rating as Summerslam *****3/4*
> 
> I haven't seen their Royal Rumble encounter in a long ass time. Did they have any other televised matches?


Nope, no other televised matches.

And I agree with you, their ONO match was fantastic. I disagree with the earlier comment that it was like Summerslam. Felt totally different in both vibe and approach, and much of the content of the match was different too. It was much less slower than Summerslam as well. In fact, I was surprised by how much immediate back and forth there was between Bret & 'Taker, because that wasn't usually Taker's style. I also thought that Taker's selling was top-notch in that match. I came away very impressed by him, after watching him in that performance.

Maybe the OP is thinking of their RR match? Because that was definitely very slow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker throws punches to start. Bret works on the legs and it goes nowhere. Screwball finish.

Those matches in a nutshell for me. I'm telling you the revelation is astounding at how so many big time WWF/WWE names meet in matches and they're just not good. Undertaker can work vs Festus once and it's tremendous. Works vs Austin a number of times and it's hard to find a good match in the bunch.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

2 guys who when together gave imho great performances are tanaka aNd mike awesome. Every time those 2 wrestle It something to watch.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Sandow/Orton from last SD- **


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*-***1/2*

Christian vs Swagger was a nice little dance, at least. I've ranted on the nature of Smackdown this week elsewhere; trying to look at one of the few positives.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Watched a few Summerslam matches recently.

Austin v Angle - ****3/4
Benoit v Orton - ****1/4
Angle v Lesner - ****
RVD v Jeff Hardy - ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of those matches are great. Well, first three are fabulous and the ladder match I've always liked. 

SummerSlam is the best. <3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bah, Survivor Series is more beastly everytime WWE tries to put an effort for that show. <3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Surivor Series stopped being relevant once the all Elimination matches were phased out. And then 2011 happened - I still have nightmares.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Summerslam is my fav. PPV because it's in the summer. Wrestlemania was always in the exams period


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, yeah, BUT - The Undertaker's debut, The Rock's debut, the 1st Bret vs. Austin, the Montreal Screwjob, the 1st Elimination Chamber (and HBK's last WHC reign), Chuck Norris Roundhousing Jeff Jarrett, the SS Elimination matches, the Deadly Games tournament, the running over of SCSA... DAMN.

Wheater or not is it relevant anymore, they just CANNOT pull a Benoit on something with that much history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They have. Heck, it almost vanished the last few years. It's a B-PPV now. Nothing more. Money in the Bank has larger importance in this day.

2011 missed the boat with my War Games idea. Then again, they had no end game with Johnny Ace and the "conspiracy" as it is. Gosh that was bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bah, if they minimally start caring about it again, it'll be big again tbh.

Anyway, back to the Main Event ranking...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't see how, tbhayley. The Rock had a match there in MSG and it still couldn't make fans care. The year before that was "Free or Fired" and even then the WWE didn't make the show feel all that big. The angle was emphasized, but it wasn't like OMG it's at Survivor Series, check it out. Those reactions are saved for SummerSlam as the second biggest show; always has been, actually. That's why last year being built up so lazily made sense. They know it's a bit of a bust and just a filler slot to head into TLC, as the gimmicks allow the big match or two.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8


*Part 9 (120-101)*

*(***3/4)
120 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987









119 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008









118 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011









117 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007









116 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006









115 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011









114 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011









113 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013









112 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007









111 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004









110 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001









109 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005









108 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996









107 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero









106 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000









105 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012









104 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident









103 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007









102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990









101 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
*(***1/2)*
144 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
143 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
142 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
141 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
140 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
139 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
138 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
137 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
136 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
135 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
134 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
133 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
132 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
131 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
130 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
129 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
128 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
127 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
126 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
125 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
124 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
123 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
122 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
121 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
*(***3/4)*
120 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987
119 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008
118 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
117 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007
116 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006
115 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011
114 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011
113 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013
112 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
111 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004
110 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001
109 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
108 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996
107 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
106 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000
105 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
104 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
103 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
101 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Right, here we go. Onto WM19 Angle/Brock in my Lesnar project, loved the whole build up to this match, on the SD's weeks and months before, how it all built up with 'Team Angle' with Heyman involved, and the great inclusion of Haas/Benjamin. Plus Kurt's brother getting involved lol.






****

That SSP does not get any fucking easier to watch, miracle he was able to get that third F5 in to win the match.

Can't wait 'till i get to the SS match then the Ironman down the line. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've thought about purchasing the Greatest Superstars of the 21th Century set to own the Iron Man between Brock and Angle. I saw highlights on it and it looks as excellent as ever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Angle/Lesnar Iron Man is amazing. Pure gold storytelling. (Y)

Just for curiosity, Cody whaddaya think of Angle/Benoit Judgment Day 2001?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I've thought about purchasing the Greatest Superstars of the 21th Century set to own the Iron Man between Brock and Angle. I saw highlights on it and it looks as excellent as ever.


Even though it was in a sale, that was the main reason i bought set for 

That HBK/Bulldog matches is one of my faves from the 90's, fucking love it tbh, got a ****1/4 from me i think, wrote about it multiple times on here, just Davey's power moments are excellent, and the whole flow and structure of the match is pretty damn great. Owen on commentary 

Oh, and when Bulldog gets in the ring, he shouts at a fan "Don't fuck with me", perfectly picked up by the camera


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The KOTR '96 one you mean? Yeah it was very good, though I found it not all that great personally. Dug their ONO match better.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> I've thought about purchasing the Greatest Superstars of the 21th Century set to own the Iron Man between Brock and Angle. I saw highlights on it and it looks as excellent as ever.


The Greatest of 21 Century DVD is kinda crap. Get the re-release of the Lesnar DVD as the Iron Man is on that.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I love the part in that Iron Man match when Lesnar gives Angle a fall through disqualification by hitting him with the chair, but it obviously hurts Angle enough to let Lesnar get back level and it keeps Angle out for a while. Brilliant psychology and storytelling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Angle/Lesnar Iron Man is amazing. Pure gold storytelling. (Y)
> 
> Just for curiosity, Cody whaddaya think of Angle/Benoit Judgment Day 2001?


Goodness, that's been far too long for me to pass any judgment (no pun intended) on it. Have an available copy of the show on DVD. Shall I peruse later today? Perhaps. :hmm:



Forever Unchained said:


> The Greatest of 21 Century DVD is kinda crap. Get the re-release of the Lesnar DVD as the Iron Man is on that.


Good call. I do think I had nearly all of the other offerings on the 21th Century set so the Iron Man was going to cost a decent bit all on its own. Doc didn't particularly engross me either.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I've thought about purchasing the Greatest Superstars of the 21th Century set to own the Iron Man between Brock and Angle. I saw highlights on it and it looks as excellent as ever.


The re-release of the Brock set has it as well. I'm sure you knew that. Edit....yes someone else told you haha. 

I love that iron man match. I know a lot of people don't dig them but I enjoy them a lot. This one is probably the best. Well, until Punk and Bryan have one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Goodness, that's been far too long for me to pass any judgment (no pun intended) on it. Have an available copy of the show on DVD. Shall I peruse later today? Perhaps. :hmm:


Do it. That's BY FAR the best Angle/Benoit match imo. It's flawed, but nowhere near as much as the others.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> Do it. That's BY FAR the best Angle/Benoit match imo. It's flawed, but nowhere near as much as the others.


I love the Backlash 2001 match. I will have to rewatch Judgement day. I loved it last watch but havent watched it for awhile. That was the 2 out of 3 falls one for Kurt's gold medal yes? 

I know the Rumble 2003 you either love it or hate it but I'm incredibly entertained by it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, that one.

The 1st 10 minutes of the Backlash one are awesome, but the rest (bar the overtime) is just BOOORING.

Royal Rumble... ugh. Don't even.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I've managed to work through each episode of Raw through to Fully Loaded 1999, now. I will watch it tomorrow maybe and will review it depending on my mood afterwards.

Great little segment on the go-home show before Fully Loaded where Austin busts Vince open and signs the match contract for Fully Loaded in Vince's blood. Two big matches in Austin vs. Taker in a First Blood match and Rock vs. HHH in a Strap match on the card for the pay-per-view. We finally get the Kane/Big Show/Hardcore Holly feud ender too. Looking at the card on Wiki, it is your typical 1999 Attitude Era B-PPV, so it has the potential to be a stinker but I don't remember it being too bad. Wouldn't surprise me if it's like the King of the Ring where the last few matches save it from being a straight 1/10, haha.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last time I popped in Judgment Day '01 I skipped right to the Tag Team Turmoil & Kane vs Trips. Which are both a blast. If Benoit vs Angle can deliver then it is another strong show in 2001. Boy, I hope I like it. I'd want to; it's just the crap they do is so bleh looking back.

I agree about the Ultimate Submission wearing thin quickly. Although that match is really good once compared to Angle's 30 minute Iron Man vs Samoa Joe in 2007. UGH. Angle + long lapses of time never works out well unless vs The Undertaker, apparently.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't think today's WWE audience would accept an ultimate submission match, y'know. Bryan could have a great one with the right guy, no doubt, but today's crowds barely get hyped up for great looking big spots, let alone mat-based technical classics.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Last time I popped in Judgment Day '01 I skipped right to the Tag Team Turmoil & Kane vs Trips. Which are both a blast. If Benoit vs Angle can deliver then it is another strong show in 2001. Boy, I hope I like it. I'd want to; it's just the crap they do is so bleh looking back.
> 
> I agree about the Ultimate Submission wearing thin quickly. Although that match is really good once compared to Angle's 30 minute Iron Man vs Samoa Joe in 2007. UGH. Angle + long lapses of time never works out well unless vs The Undertaker, apparently.


It really did deliever to me. They cut out on a lot of their no-selling bullcrap, by incorporating very well their technical and mat wrestling with working on a much more brawling, stiff and storytelling driven style here. I also watched the last of their Singles matches ever (on Smackdown 2/2/03), which was ok, but with a lot of bleh.

Add Stone Cold to that. Angle has all the talent in the world, but ffs Khali has better psychology than he does.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doesn't surprise me. I think I may only like three of their matches: WrestleMania, the steel cage for being a nutty spotfest, & potentially Judgment Day.

Add Austin to what? Not having good chemistry with Taker most of the time? b/c while I agree, it's like the opposite of my original point was.  _(then again it isn't like every Undertaker vs Angle match is grand either, but I was most talking about when they went long aka NWO '06.)_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Doesn't surprise me. I think I may only like three of their matches: WrestleMania, the steel cage for being a nutty spotfest, & potentially Judgment Day.
> 
> Add Austin to what? Not having good chemistry with Taker most of the time? b/c while I agree, it's like the opposite of my original point was.  _(then again it isn't like every Undertaker vs Angle match is grand either, but I was most talking about when they went long aka NWO '06.)_


No, I meant as in working good long matches with Angle 

WrestleMania 17 was very cool, but most of my personal enjoyment on it came from the childhood impact it had on me... sooo yeah.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I wouldn't say that Angle has all the talent in the world. He could be lead well. He could produce when he was tamed by a better worker. Otherwise, he was always a bit of a trainwreck really. 

It's a shame that Angle didn't pick up more from working with all those vets straight out of the gate. His career peaked so early. When those vets dried up, he was... well, hit or miss. I guess that's the nicest way to call it.

I'll always be fond of Angle (used to be a huge supporter), but as the years have gone by, his work hasn't aged well, and his TNA run has done a lot to really expose his huge flaws.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Survivor series has always been good. Really manía was the show that always lacked somewhat in my eyes. Oh sure the main events are great but thats alot of Cash for 3 hopefully decent matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I meant that as in his execution of moves and the technical aspect of stuff. One of the crispest workers I've ever seen. But his lack of psychology and structuring is borderline Davey Richards-bad imo.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Angle's biggest detriment is the fact that by coming into wrestling via WWE without going through the territory system he was always playing catch up in terms of the intangibles of pro wrestling. Its one thing to perfect worked punches, stomps and working on incorporating his amateur style holds into his matches, but to understand pacing, cut offs, timing, structure and the diversity in working as a heel (playing the vet vs a young face, playing the chickenshit vs a monster face, being methodical/cowardly/opportunistic etc) is something entirely different.

Angle just doesn't differentiate his style. He might compact or work slower matches but in principle he'll wrestle a Wrestlemania title match the same way he wrestles a midcard TNA match, albeit with less time. A true worker who was brought up in the territory system or at the very least progressed through wrestling schools and went around the world can work off a crowd and play a number of characters effortlessly. Look at someone like Eddie as the comedy heel in '03, the heroic underdog in '04 & the psychotic, sadistic creature in '05. He adapted his offence and mannerisms to differentiate both heel runs, whilst still producing good-great matches. Someone like Angle only knows one style that he recycles endlessly and there in lies his problem.

Other biggest factor is of course by late '04 and into '05 he was a senior member of the WWE roster and then immediately the same in TNA: which meant over time he regressed from being the rookie lead through matches and instead became the guy putting matches together and actively calling matches in the ring, which was clearly his major weakness.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

While you're still here, Mr. WOOLCOCK, can you recommend some more early Sgt. Slaughter? I just watched the Final Conflict Cage match, and I was most impressed by him, even over my beloved Steamboat. Good match, but the first 20 minutes felt like Steamboat forgot he was in a cage match. Slaughter was king though.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> While you're still here, Mr. WOOLCOCK, can you recommend some more early Sgt. Slaughter? I just watched the Final Conflict Cage match, and I was most impressed by him, even over my beloved Steamboat. Good match, but the first 20 minutes felt like Steamboat forgot he was in a cage match. Slaughter was king though.


Slaughter/Backlund in '81 is magnificent. They have a singles match which turns into Slaughter bloodying and battering Backlund, before a return Cage Match which is probably a top 3 Cage Match in Company History. Slaughter bumps like a loon, they work some great escapes and tease the progressive escalation of the violence and the finishing stretch is maybe my favourite sequence in a Cage Match bar the ending to Magnum/Tully.

Backlund/Patterson Alley Fight 4/21/81 is a magnificent brawl as well. Slaughter takes his famous over the turnbuckle to the floor bump and then cuts an insane blading where blood trickles down his chest within 5 seconds. One of the better authentic fights I've seen.

Of course his famed match is the Boot Camp match vs The Iron Sheik 5/16/84. Might be the best match in company history for my money as it has everything you want in a bloody climatic feud ender. Nuclear heat for protagonist and antagonist, great offence and bumps, clear escalation in the violence and a dramatic finishing stretch which sees Slaughter channeling Rocky Balboa in his comeback and a finish which perfectly ties into the context and history of the bitter feud.

I'm sure Slaughter has some appearances on the AWA set as well, of which I own a copy. But I'd need to dig into that set before commenting on what is absolutely must see.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Taker throws punches to start. Bret works on the legs and it goes nowhere. Screwball finish.
> 
> Those matches in a nutshell for me. I'm telling you the revelation is astounding at how so many big time WWF/WWE names meet in matches and they're just not good. Undertaker can work vs Festus once and it's tremendous. Works vs Austin a number of times and it's hard to find a good match in the bunch.


This. To be honest I never cared for Taker's matches until he feuded w/HBK in 97. He definitely got better w/time.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Slaughter/Backlund in '81 is magnificent. They have a singles match which turns into Slaughter bloodying and battering Backlund, before a return Cage Match which is probably a top 3 Cage Match in Company History. Slaughter bumps like a loon, they work some great escapes and tease the progressive escalation of the violence and the finishing stretch is maybe my favourite sequence in a Cage Match bar the ending to Magnum/Tully.
> 
> Backlund/Patterson Alley Fight 4/21/81 is a magnificent brawl as well. Slaughter takes his famous over the turnbuckle to the floor bump and then cuts an insane blading where blood trickles down his chest within 5 seconds. One of the better authentic fights I've seen.
> 
> ...


Boot Camp match :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Is the boot camp match on any wwe comps? How about when Sheik won the title from BB?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm thoroughly convinced that the MSG Sheik/Slaughter match never actually occurred and that all fans of that match are just pulling off a big ruse in order to make themselves look educated. I can never find that match anywhere!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced that the MSG Sheik/Slaughter match never actually occurred and that all fans of that match are just pulling off a big ruse in order to make themselves look educated. I can never find that match anywhere!


What date is it? Ill see if i can help


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced that the MSG Sheik/Slaughter match never actually occurred and that all fans of that match are just pulling off a big ruse in order to make themselves look educated. I can never find that match anywhere!


I once saw a Sheik/Slaughter match on that MSG show they had years ago (it was around 2007-2008 I believe). Not sure if it's the one you're referring to, and truth be told I don't remember too much about it except I believe Slaughter was busted open, but yeah...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced that the MSG Sheik/Slaughter match never actually occurred and that all fans of that match are just pulling off a big ruse in order to make themselves look educated. I can never find that match anywhere!


Ill upload it tomorrow and let ya know


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Been trying to use XWT and urgh, what a croc with their .7 ratio. Surely just a way to get people to pay for it....


Shiek/Slaughter boot camp is to be included on the MSG DVD coming up soon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Slaughter/Backlund 1981 matches is where its at! :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Does the MSG DVD include the RR 2000 Street Fight?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

ATF, lovin' your main event list. It's another thing that's helpful when I go back and watch stuff.

More, please.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wow, SummerSlam 1988 is so hard to watch. Just uninteresting throughout, I'll try my best to finish this show. Hopefully the SS' following this are better.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

ATF said:


> Does the MSG DVD include the RR 2000 Street Fight?



Nope...



> DISC 1
> 50 Years of History
> 
> Ivan Koloff
> ...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9


*Part 10 (100-81)*
AKA The John Cena Show...

*(***3/4)
100 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2011









99 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Taboo Tuesday 2005









98 - Edge vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2006









97 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009









96 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22









95 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996









94 - Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996









93 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001









92 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XV/15









(****)
91 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman, One Night Stand 2005









90 - John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler, TLC 2012









89 - John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009









88 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011









87 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008









86 - JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004









85 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007









84 - Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006









83 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010









82 - Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, Vengeance 2003









81 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2001







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WresteMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
*(***1/2)*
144 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
143 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
142 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
141 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
140 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
139 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
138 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
137 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
136 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
135 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
134 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
133 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
132 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
131 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
130 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
129 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
128 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
127 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
126 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
125 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
124 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
123 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
122 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
121 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
*(***3/4)*
120 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987
119 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008
118 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
117 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007
116 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006
115 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011
114 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011
113 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013
112 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
111 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004
110 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001
109 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
108 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996
107 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
106 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000
105 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
104 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
103 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
101 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008
100 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2011
99 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Taboo Tuesday 2005
98 - Edge vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2006
97 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009
96 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
95 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
94 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1996
93 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
92 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XV/15
*(****)*
91 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman, One Night Stand 2005
90 - John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler, TLC 2012
89 - John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
88 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
87 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008
86 - JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
85 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
84 - Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006
83 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
82 - Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, Vengeance 2003
81 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2001


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

More great work by ATF. These are some great matches that start showing up now. Can't wait for the end of it.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> *ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*​
> 
> 88 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011


This sounds interesting. Gonna have to check it out!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/vader is way too high on your list


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Always loved Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996. DAT CROWD!! They shat on Michaels who did the John Cena babyface pretending to ignore the boos thing years before Cena did.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Disagree with like, 90% of your top 100 so far . Would have most of them *** or less lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To address the "opposition":



redskins25 said:


> hbk/vader is way too high on your list


I really don't think so. The only thing that kept me from giving it the **** were the botches and the ending. Brilliant, brilliant big guy vs. vanilla midget story here.



Callamus said:


> Disagree with like, 90% of your top 100 so far . Would have most of them *** or less lol.


What were the 10% you agreed?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Sid, Angle/Austin, Angle/Lesnar/Show .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To each their own 

Cal, ain't you makin' SummerSlam reviews? I'd like to see SummerSlam using DA CAL SCALE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I ain't. I've barely watched any wrestling in the last few months. Personal/health issues and such left me with little desire for anything. Getting back to normal now though, but I doubt I'll be doing any SummerSlam (or Survivor Series when it comes around) reviews until next year. Not owning all of them (well I might have them on copy somewhere) doesn't help because I hate, HATE streaming sites and cba to download atm (though my internet does appear to have been fixed finally so I could... but I have other things I wanna download atm).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> To address the "opposition":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha no, I knew I said it wrong, its too high as in the number is to high, I love it ****1/4 besides the off and on starts its great


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Forever Unchained said:


> Always loved Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996. DAT CROWD!! They shat on Michaels who did the John Cena babyface pretending to ignore the boos thing years before Cena did.


I remember Shawn looking out into the crowd like "oh yeah? How dare you. Fuck you!" He looked frustrated, lol.

At least that's how I remember it at the time. Haven't watched it since. 

More!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, well I can't really change that I found it better than every other match behind it 

Shame on that Cal. I kinda miss the CAL SCALE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The CAL SCALE will return no doubt, I just don't know when exactly or what it will be used with .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh btw, I kinda wish that on Main Event or Superstars or something, they make a Triple Threat with Bryan/Gabriel/Tatsu.

How many of you will get the reference? 8*D


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Which year is better from a ringwork standpoint, 1997 or 2000?


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Lesnar using the chair/dq thing was hardly smart. It's Brock f'n Lesnar! He shouldn't need a damn chair!!


I never liked the Angle vs Benoit Submission Iron Man match since having one or both of them tap out multiple times in the same match just makes the guy look weak. Jim Ross and Heyman tried downplaying the tap outs by saying that they were giving up just to get out of the submirsion rather than risk injury and lose the match. Made no sense to me. They should've done either a Sub or Iron Man instead of trying to wix both in together in the one match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Alim said:


> Which year is better from a ringwork standpoint, 1997 or 2000?


1997 but 2000 is easily close.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Its one thing to perfect worked punches, stomps and working on incorporating his amateur style holds into his matches, but to understand pacing, cut offs, timing, structure and the diversity in working as a heel (playing the vet vs a young face, playing the chickenshit vs a monster face, being methodical/cowardly/opportunistic etc) is something entirely different.


Angle's punches are ASS, tbf. He has/had a gorgeous moonsault that he seems to never be allowed to hit, and he won't make a simple move like a slam look bad aesthetically, but I don't really get the 'Angle is really crisp with great execution' talk. I suppose he's good at reversing something into someotherthing cleanly.



Alim said:


> Which year is better from a ringwork standpoint, 1997 or 2000?


I'm probably the only one but I think 2000 doesn't really come close to 97 at all. I'd probably take five WWF matches of 97 over any WWF match of 00.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 5 matches from 97 are pretty easily > top 5 from 2000, but overall I'd take 2000 over 1997 for ringwork. Both main event scenes were packed with fucking TALENT, but the undercard for 97 wasn't exactly worth seeing 99% of the time, same with the tag division. Seems that they only produced something good was when they threw the main eventers into those divisions. 2000 had a pretty swank tag division and a great undercard too, and was the opposite of 97 with guys from those divisions being thrown into the main event scene at times, and were still able to produce some great stuff.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Typical smarky crowd in NYC booing HBK and cheering Sid in 1996. They did the same at Summerslam 2002 booing Rock and cheering for Brock. I can remember at WM 4 them popping hard when Demolition won the tag titles as heels. 

I never liked Sid I never got the appeal. Sure he looked the part but so did a lot of guys. He got two WWF title wins and main evented a Mania? Christ. Plus, Sid was a fucking idiot and almost killed Brian Pillman who was one of my faves growing up. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stG6tW5iJbw


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Typical smarky crowd in NYC booing HBK and cheering Sid in 1996. I never liked Sid I never got the appeal. Sure he looked the part but so did a lot of guys. He got two WWF title wins and main evented a Mania? Christ. Plus, Sid was a fucking idiot and almost killed Brian Pillman who was one of my faves growing up.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stG6tW5iJbw


 I doubt he would have main evented Wrestlemania if Shawn just agreed to job to Bret Hart in 1997. TO be honest, I was suprised HBK vacated the title in 1997 because there was no build to this and it just happened out of nowhere. I thought I missed an episode but after reading why it was vacated, it looked like his real life feud with Hart got in the way


----------



## Horselover Fat (May 18, 2006)

hey guys lets not sell sid short he main evented TWO wrestlemanias


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

zep81 said:


> That SSP does not get any fucking easier to watch, miracle he was able to get that third F5 in to win the match.


Shame as he was able to do it before...









I'd say he'd put on a load more muscle between doing it in 2001 and trying it again in 2003.




Jack D. Ripper said:


> hey guys lets not sell sid short he main evented TWO wrestlemanias


Hardly a sign of brilliance or anything. Lawrence Taylor, Miz and Mr. T all main evented WrestleManias and they suck. Two of them weren't even wrestlers ffs! (Granted T was in a tag match at Mania I but I believe he main evented with Roddy Piper in a boxing match at Mania 2 no?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Not for nothing, but Sid had the most badass entrances ever. His entrance was the best part of his Wrestlemania 92 match, lol.

It's kind of weird, I usually don't have much love for the big muscled freak types, but every once in awhile, one tickles my fancy (Warrior, Sid).

And wow, that Pillman botch looks nasty. It's kind of sweet that Sid immediately rubbed Pillman's head, but dude, if his feet get caught on the cage, DO NOT still go for the move.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes I forgot Sid/Hogan main evented WM 8. Not one of the best WWF title matches ever. LOL @ that. Whatever. 

I'm pretty sure Sid was in a tag team with Taker in the early 90s. The Skyscrapers? I might be wrong about that. 

I've seen video of Brock hitting the shooting star flawlessly in Japan. Hell of an athlete. I honestly thought he was paralyzed after that botch at Wm 19. I'd mark like a mother if Brock tried a SSP at Summerslam or if Punk tried a Pepsi Plunge but the chances of those things happening are the same as Heath Slater winning the WWE title.


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Sid wasnt the best big Man but he had a awesome ass look and is still in good condition today. I remember him as champ at rr 97 he was over fans were cheering for him and him giving fist bumps in michaels own state has to say something


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not doubting Sid was over he totally was at times. I just didn't get it. IDK. Also two title wins for him was probably 1 too many. Vader should have won one. Since we are talking about big men he might be the best all time over 350. Just my 2 cents. 

Bret got a decent match out of him at the IYH in 96 right before Rumble.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Psycho Sid had one badass theme.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sid'd theme was badass. 

Does anyone watch Big Brother? Guilty pleasure of mine. His kid was on it a year or two ago. Frank was awesome....


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah Frank will be back for All-Stars 2 guaranteed. The guy is a genetic beast like his dad


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Pyro during his ring entrance makes the theme song better.(Y)

By the way, Bret Hart and Vader also had an alright 5 minute match on the RAW go-home show to the IYH: Final Four PPV. Finish sucked with Hart moving out of the way of Vader's moonsault and then pinning him just like that.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I always wanted a Bret/Vader feud back then. That superplex off the top rope in the Final 4 match with those two, Austin and Taker was a huge mark out moment for me.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Alim said:


> Psycho Sid had one badass theme.
> 
> zVpLeGrz1_M


That was great, but even his old theme was great too (ff to the 0:26 mark):







No wonder Vince creamed his pants and let him come back after ditching shows to go play softball or whatever. Sid's type of thing is right up Vince's alley.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My favorite part of that Hogan/Sid match was when Sid no sold the leg drop and kicked out. Haha fuck off Hogan.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> My favorite part of that Hogan/Sid match was when Sid no sold the leg drop and kicked out. Haha fuck off Hogan.


It makes up for Hogan & the WWE pulling off that bullshit move of Hogan pulling Sid out of the Royal Rumble, and expecting _Sid_ to get booed for getting upset about it.

Even as a kid that seemed like total bs to me. 

Very annoying too, because finally, Hogan wasn't winning everything anymore. And then Hogan had to go and pull out the one guy I actually cared about left in there. It was like "f'n' Hogan, always getting in the way, even when he's not literally IN the way." :kobe8

I know that was to set up the feud, but it was still really stupid for him to pull that off and expect to get cheered for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Worst part of it is editing the DVD versions to make it seem like Sid got booed even though the crowd clearly celebrate the elimination of Hogan.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Wasn't there a huge botched finished in the Sid/Hogan match?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> It makes up for Hogan & the WWE pulling off that bullshit move of Hogan pulling Sid out of the Royal Rumble, and expecting _Sid_ to get booed for getting upset about it.
> 
> Even as a kid that seemed like total bs to me.
> 
> ...



Exactly I was 11 at the time and I was even like uhhhh wtf? It's also rumored that only happened because Hogan wouldn't drop the belt to Flair. I also didn't like Hogan anymore after Savage turned on him so I was thrilled he didn't win the Rumble. My 2nd grade class pic I'm a chubby 8 year old in the purple Savage shirt. Good times. 

Yes at RR 92 they clearly were cheering Hogan getting eliminated. I'd say from about 91 on Hogan had got pretty boring. When Taker won the title at Survivor Series 91 there was a pretty good pop for it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyh4uT5ot98


----------



## 96powerstroker (Mar 13, 2013)

Yea papa shango missed his cue to come out and make the save thats why sid no sold the leg drop


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

96powerstroker said:


> Yea papa shango missed his cue to come out and make the save thats why sid no sold the leg drop


Yep I read that haha. Uhhhh it's Wrestlemania dude. Get your ass out there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SID. Terrible wrestler, but dammit he's one of my all time favourites lol.

He wasn't in a team with Undertaker in the early 90's btw. The Skyscrapers were Sid and Dan Spivey, then Sid punctured a lung and Mean Mark Calaway was his replacement, joining Spivey as the New Skyscrapers .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> SID. Terrible wrestler, but dammit he's one of my all time favourites lol.
> 
> He wasn't in a team with Undertaker in the early 90's btw. The Skyscrapers were Sid and Dan Spivey, then Sid punctured a lung and Mean Mark Calaway was his replacement, joining Spivey as the New Skyscrapers .



Thaaaaaats right. I was too lazy to google. If memory serves I think Heyman (Paul E Dangerously) was the manager for Mean Mark Callous when he wrestled Luger for the US title? I wanna say it was at Great American Bash in 1990?

I hope you are ok health wise. Now back to non serious stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, once Calaway went his own way (after Spivey upped and left before a PPV/Clash match and was replaced by... I wanna say one of the Beverley Brothers...), Heyman was his manager for a while. Love the match with Luger. One of his best singles matches not against Flair.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I hope that match (Luger V Callous) makes a Taker set someday after he is retired. Probably not but who knows. Maybe a US title set?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hope it does make a DVD set. After he retires, a nice 4 DVD (3 BR) disc set with a documentary and a ton of matches from his early days onwards would be great. His first ever match against Bruiser Brody, match with Lawler, maybe the Austin match, then a Skyscrapers tag, match with Luger, then go into his Undertaker stuff.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Hope it does make a DVD set. After he retires, a nice 4 DVD (3 BR) disc set with a documentary and a ton of matches from his early days onwards would be great. His first ever match against Bruiser Brody, match with Lawler, maybe the Austin match, then a Skyscrapers tag, match with Luger, then go into his Undertaker stuff.



Love the idea. 

I could see a couple more Taker sets. An unreleased set (like the Hogan and Bret ones) and then one after he is retired.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh no doubt they'll release a few Taker sets still in the future. Still waiting to own the GOAT match in High Def, Vince...


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Taker could have a GOAT five-disc DVD: Disc 1 - out-of-character documentary, disc 2 - his non-WWE stuff and his WWF stuff through to the AE, disc 3 - 'Deadman' attitude era Taker/feuds with Kane, Austin, HBK etc., disc 4 - American Bad Ass and Big Evil Taker and disc 5 - return of 'Deadman' Taker. Would be pretty damn awesome.

I prefer 2000 over 1997 all round as a year for the WWE, but 1997 is definitely WWE's second best year in my opinion. All comes down to personal taste, in the end.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

TheeJayBee said:


> Taker could have a GOAT five-disc DVD: Disc 1 - out-of-character documentary, disc 2 - his non-WWE stuff and his WWF stuff through to the AE, disc 3 - 'Deadman' attitude era Taker/feuds with Kane, Austin, HBK etc., disc 4 - American Bad Ass and Big Evil Taker and disc 5 - return of 'Deadman' Taker. Would be pretty damn awesome.
> 
> I prefer 2000 over 1997 all round as a year for the WWE, but 1997 is definitely WWE's second best year in my opinion. All comes down to personal taste, in the end.


Whatever your opinion is wrong!

Joking. 

2000 was great. 

Thats the beauty of wrestling. Most of the time its all subjective.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Mean Mark, I discovered this a while back:






lol @ Theodore Moe Dee.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Teddy is the ref makes the 1-2-3 count in the first match of the Flair/Steamboat trilogy in 1989. I guess I was a smark in training cuz even as a kid I was like hey wait a minute.....


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Whatever your opinion is wrong!
> 
> Joking.
> 
> ...


Haha! I wouldn't get on at anybody who chooses 1997 over my personal fave in 2000 - though it would make for interesting discussion - in the same way that I would call anybody an idiot for choosing Wrestlemania XIX over X7 for their favourite Mania. For a long time, XIX was actually my favourite but I'm kind of split these days. I just love Wrestlemania XIX for it's big matches and that really good Divas...three-way :vince5

2000 has the best collection of pay-per-views in WWE history in my opinion. Even the ones that weren't great shows overall (Wrestlemania 16, Unforgiven, possibly Survivor Series and Armageddon) had huge moments and one or two great matches. Fully Loaded 2000 is like the GOAT B-PPV and I have Royal Rumble 2000 at 9.5/10, with the only marks taken off because of that horrific Mae Young 'show' and an average IC Title three-way.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Angle's punches are ASS, tbf. He has/had a gorgeous moonsault that he seems to never be allowed to hit, and he won't make a simple move like a slam look bad aesthetically, but I don't really get the 'Angle is really crisp with great execution' talk. I suppose he's good at reversing something into someotherthing cleanly.


Oh, I didn't mean Angle necessarily had good punches etc. Just used it more to distinguish how perfecting the execution of offence is immensely difficult from understanding the intangibles and more succint aspects of pro wrestling, which is where he's historically fell apart


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Favorite Mania will probably always be 3 or 4. I can watch all of those front to back and never get bored. Lots of good memories from childhood.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Mean Mark, I discovered this a while back:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now that Teddy Long is no longer GM of Smackdown he should start managing again. Maybe a heel Kofi Kingston or the PTP


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

TheeJayBee said:


> Haha! I wouldn't get on at anybody who chooses 1997 over my personal fave in 2000 - though it would make for interesting discussion - in the same way that I would call anybody an idiot for choosing Wrestlemania XIX over X7 for their favourite Mania. For a long time, XIX was actually my favourite but I'm kind of split these days. I just love Wrestlemania XIX for it's big matches and that really good Divas...three-way :vince5
> 
> 2000 has the best collection of pay-per-views in WWE history in my opinion. Even the ones that weren't great shows overall (Wrestlemania 16, Unforgiven, possibly Survivor Series and Armageddon) had huge moments and one or two great matches. *Fully Loaded 2000 is like the GOAT B-PPV* and I have Royal Rumble 2000 at 9.5/10, with the only marks taken off because of that horrific Mae Young 'show' and an average IC Title three-way.


No Mercy 2008 would love to disagree. 

But yeah, FL 00 was epic. DAT RIKISHI. DAT LAST MAN STANDING.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

TheeJayBee said:


> Haha! I wouldn't get on at anybody who chooses 1997 over my personal fave in 2000 - though it would make for interesting discussion - in the same way that I would call anybody an idiot for choosing Wrestlemania XIX over X7 for their favourite Mania. For a long time, XIX was actually my favourite but I'm kind of split these days. I just love Wrestlemania XIX for it's big matches and that really good Divas...three-way :vince5
> 
> 2000 has the best collection of pay-per-views in WWE history in my opinion. Even the ones that weren't great shows overall (Wrestlemania 16, Unforgiven, possibly Survivor Series and Armageddon) had huge moments and one or two great matches.* Fully Loaded 2000 is like the GOAT B-PPV* and I have Royal Rumble 2000 at 9.5/10, with the only marks taken off because of that horrific Mae Young 'show' and an average IC Title three-way.


Behind Extreme Rules 2013 

:brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Behind Extreme Rules 2012
> 
> :brock


Fixed


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10


*Part 11 (80-61)*

*(****)
80 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Brothers Of Destruction, Backlash 2001









79 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002









78 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010









77 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1991









76 - The British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels, One Night Only 1997









75 - John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010









74 - Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Mercy 2005









73 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven









72 - The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive









71 - Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008









70 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgment Day 2003









69 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999









68 - Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw, Survivor Series 2005









67 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009









66 - Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies









65 - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009









64 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania VI/6









(****1/4)
63 - Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995









62 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997









61 - Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
280 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
279 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
278 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
277 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
276 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
275 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
274 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
273 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
272 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
271 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
270 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
269 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
268 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
267 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
266 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
265 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
264 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
263 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
262 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
261 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
260 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
259 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
258 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
257 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
256 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
255 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
254 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
253 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
252 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
250 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
249 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
248 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
247 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
246 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
245 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
244 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
243 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
242 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
241 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
240 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
239 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
238 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 25
237 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
236 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
235 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
234 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
233 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
232 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
231 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
230 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
229 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
228 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
227 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
226 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
225 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
224 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
223 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
222 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
221 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
220 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
219 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
218 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
217 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
216 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
215 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
214 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
213 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
212 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
211 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
210 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
208 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
207 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
*(***1/2)*
144 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
143 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
142 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
141 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
140 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
139 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
138 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
137 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
136 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
135 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
134 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
133 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
132 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
131 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
130 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
129 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
128 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
127 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
126 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
125 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
124 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
123 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
122 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
121 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
*(***3/4)*
120 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987
119 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008
118 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
117 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007
116 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006
115 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011
114 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011
113 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013
112 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
111 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004
110 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001
109 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
108 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996
107 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
106 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000
105 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
104 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
103 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
101 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008
100 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2011
99 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Taboo Tuesday 2005
98 - Edge vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2006
97 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009
96 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
95 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
94 - Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996
93 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
92 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XV/15
*(****)*
91 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman, One Night Stand 2005
90 - John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler, TLC 2012
89 - John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
88 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
87 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008
86 - JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
85 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
84 - Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006
83 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
82 - Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, Vengeance 2003
81 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2001
80 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Brothers Of Destruction, Backlash 2001
79 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
78 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
77 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1991
76 - The British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels, One Night Only 1997
75 - John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
74 - Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Mercy 2005
73 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
72 - The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
71 - Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
70 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgment Day 2003
69 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
68 - Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw, Survivor Series 2005
67 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
66 - Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
65 - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
64 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania VI/6
*(****1/4)*
63 - Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
62 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997
61 - Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Hmm, I wouldn't put some of those at **** mathces but it's actually really cool seeing you give your personal rating of each main event. Looking forward to reading the top 30 or so 

Come on guys, Fully Loaded 2000 is GOAT standard and you know it! Canadian Stampede is bloody awesome too, as well as Backlash 2000!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fully Loaded 2000 is NOT the GOAT standard, Canadian Stampede is.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I love Fully Loaded 2000, man. That Last Man Standing match between HHH and Y2J is awesome, as well as The Rock vs. Benoit and the opener is a brilliant match to get the crowd raring to go - it's in the same vein as Rey vs. Kurt at Summerslam '02 in terms of an opening contest. Then that epic visual of Rikishi splashing Val Venis from the top of the cage is just crazy. Throw in a few decent, good length matches to 'supplement' the card and you have an awesome pay-per-view. The worst match is Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker imo, and that's not bad as such it just isn't very good and what you would have expected from the two at the time.

Canadian Stampede is awesome though. I have unlimited time for that show. The 10-man tag team match is fantastic and TAKA Michinoku vs. Sasuke is a really, really good match.


----------



## admiremyclone (Aug 7, 2007)

Fully Loaded 2000 is definitely up there in terms of GOAT-calibre PPVs. Exciting mixed tag to open the show which really energized the already hot crowd. Especially when Lita takes her top off before hitting her moonsault :ass

But let's not forget Judgment Day 2000 either. Another great opener in Angle/E&C vs Rikishi/Too Cool. Edge and Christian pull out probably my favourite 5 second pose here, "The Jug Band" haha. Then you have Grand Master Sexay's pants accidentally falling down during the match which gets a big laugh out of everyone.

Benoit vs Jericho in a pretty great Submission Match for the I.C strap, a tag team table match between Dudleyz and Road Dogg/X-Pac. Then the epic main event Iron Man match between The Rock and Triple H where Undertaker makes his return as the American Badass. That's one crazy show from top to bottom!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No Way Out 2000 is amazing as well. A good Jericho/Angle opener, an incredible Hardys/E&C match, filler throughout that's ER 2012 caliber (as in quick and fun), a great 6-Man Tag, two decent matches in Rock/Show and Kane/X-Pac, and the spectacular HHH/Cactus HIAC. Awesome stuff.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Two Man Power Trip V Brothers of Destruction is way too low but to each his/her own.



TheeJayBee said:


> I love Fully Loaded 2000, man. That Last Man Standing match between HHH and Y2J is awesome, as well as The Rock vs. *Wild Pegasus*


Fixed it for you. No problem! 

Agreed though Fully Loaded 2000 is a great PPV and I can't think of 3 better matches Rocky had. 

I love Canadian Stampede too though. One day I will try and rank my top 20 PPVs but that will be ridiculously difficult.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm a fan of some of these matches on ATF's list. The few Cena matches, SVS tag, Bret/Diesel and all that stuff. Don't like the elimination chamber very much, though. One of my lesser favorites because it's nothing special until it comes down to Taker and Jericho.

Benoit vs Rock is the easy MOTN on Fully Loaded for me. It's near the five star mark for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@MachoMadness, *his* in my case  Also, Powertrip/BOD at #80 is actually higher than I expected tbh.

C2D, Taker and Jericho alone were great enough, the rest just made it **** for me  Oh, and you didn't enjoy HHH/Jericho?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BACKLASH 2000. One of the best PPV's of all time, never mind "B" PPV's and shit. FL is great too, a ton of fun. And JD 00. God what a run of PPV's lol. Shame KOTR blew, and overall the PPV's got weaker from then on before picking up again in 2001 for the first few months.

ATF, I somewhat approve of your list this time around . Plenty of great matches with ratings similar to mine .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Oh, and you didn't enjoy HHH/Jericho?


I did but give me Benoit/Rock any day of the week.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Was there anything worth watching on Smackdown this week, guys?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Was there anything worth watching on Smackdown this week, guys?


 DAMIEN SANDOW :sandow


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> BACKLASH 2000. One of the best PPV's of all time, never mind "B" PPV's and shit. FL is great too, a ton of fun. And JD 00. God what a run of PPV's lol. Shame KOTR blew, and overall the PPV's got weaker from then on before picking up again in 2001 for the first few months.
> 
> ATF, I somewhat approve of your list this time around . Plenty of great matches with ratings similar to mine .


Backlash '00 - AKA the REAL WrestleMania 16 (only without the Triangle Ladder match). :clap

Imo 2001 was the GOAT year for PPV's. Apart from Insurrextion, which was TERRIBLE, every show was good (Judgment Day, King Of The Ring, Rebellion, Vengeance), very good (Backlash, InVasion, Unforgiven, Survivor Series) or GREAT (Royal Rumble, No Way Out, WrestleMania 17, SummerSlam, No Mercy).

Where did you agree on the list then?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Quicker to say what I didn't agree with .

Elimination Chamber 2010 - Decent
John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010 - Trash
Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Mercy 2005 - Decent
Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven - Good, but nothing more. Completely overshadowed by their OTE match
Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008 - Decent
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies - Decent
Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997 - TRASH


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Admittedly I was baffled to see Cena vs. Batista at ER that high up on the list. I fell asleep, tried to watch it the next day and fell asleep again and eventually I managed to watch it all the way through and it just sucked. Stupid finish too that belittles the point of a Last Man Standing match, too. Why have such a heated feud and give it a Last Man Standing stip only to not have the two guys absolutely destroy eachother until one cannot stand?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's more of a guilty pleasure. To me, it was anything but boring. It was the smart, brained version of the Cena/Ryback LMS. Those two did beat the holy Jesus out of each other, and I'll admit I chuckled at the ending. But yeah, imo that match is mark out land.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

@ATF

Unless you already listed it and I missed it I have not seen Cena/Orton Iron Man at Bragging Rights 2009. I think that match is very underrated. 

I know a lot of people love or hate Iron Man matches (I'm a fan) but I really think an Iron Man DVD/Blu Ray would sell well. 

Obviously you have everyones favorite match of all time Bret V HBK at WM 12( tongue firmly placed in cheek) but also Bret V Owen in the summer of 94 before Summerslam and Bret and Flair had an Iron Man match in late 92/early 93 as well. You could also have....

Rude/Steamboat
Cena/HBK (Raw a couple weeks after WM 23)
Cena/Orton
HHH/Rock
Angle/Brock

I'm sure they could find video of a Flair/Windham 60 min draw or Flair/Dusty

Those of us with long attention spans would enjoy it haha.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Flair/Windham 60 min draw or


Were any of those actual 'Iron Man' matches, or just time-limit draws?

TBH, you could pick a thousand Flair matches if that is the case lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> @ATF
> 
> Unless you already listed it and I missed it I have not seen Cena/Orton Iron Man at Bragging Rights 2009. I think that match is very underrated.


I have already, at #146 (***1/4). I think it was good but a little overkill with overbooking personally. But Orton going nuts with the fireworks did bump it 1/2* alone


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Good point. I guess it's an iron man match in length if not name. 

I think Angle/HBK had a 30 minute Iron Man match on Raw as well. Maybe fall 05?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Iron Man matches are literally the worst things ever,


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes they did. Raw Homecoming episode more precisely (one of the best Raws ever imo).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Iron Man matches are literally the worst things ever,


No. That's an annoying female.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Was gonna pick up Summerslam 2002 at MovieStop once I saw Brock/Hogan was a dvd extra... then I walked over to the blu ray section and found the Here Comes The Pain re-release for just $13.99. Oh I love a good bargain. Feelin some Brock tonight.

Picked up Survivor Series '03 and TLC '12 as well. How's SSeries?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Unless they recorded the Bret/Owen and Flair/Bret ones, an Iron Man set would be pointless (for me, anyway). I own all the good ones, and even one of the bad ones (HBK/Bret) on DVD (well, HHH/Benoit is a straight to DVD copy of the show, but the quality is fantastic).

Edit: SS 03 sucks outside of the Team Austin Vs Team Bischoff match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HHH/Vanilla Midget was awesome but yeah wouldnt make the set


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on SSlam 2009, y'all?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corey I havent seen you in awhile man,

idea for discussion: top 5-10 raw matches ever

no order

hbk/janetty
hbk/cena hour
hbk/scsa vs bulldog/owen
flair/perfect


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Edit: SS 03 sucks outside of the Team Austin Vs Team Bischoff match.


The opener (Team Angle/Team Lesnar) is also good for the time it got. Benoit and Cena was such an awesome pairing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on SSlam 2009, y'all?


If it wasn't an A-PPV, I would be more inclined to really like it. Legacy/DX, Mysterio/Ziggler, and JeriShow/Cryme Tyme were all net positives. Punk/Hardy is the best singles TLC match ever and the best main event of 2009. However, the horrible booking decisions surrounding two potential great matches (Cena/Orton and Regal/Christian) kill almost everything.

Watched some WCW yesterday. Some stars for lesser known matches:

Cruiserweight Gauntlet (1/24/01): ****3/4*
Real fun match here with a great performance from Rey Mysterio. Give it a chance.

Benoit/Sting (9/20/99): ****3/4*
Glad to see Benoit look legit here. Great heated title match with convincing title match nearfalls.

Bret/Malenko (11/23/98): ******
Malenko with one of the best babyface performances of his career and one of the best limb-sells I have seen. Why doesn't this awesome match get more respect?

Kidman/Whipwreck Uncensored 1999: ****3/4*
Mikey Whipwreck and Kidman getting nearly 20 minutes. What else do you expect?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched, Cena/Punk from SS11. Great match, not as good as the MITB or the one from RAW, but better than their NoC one. The ending was pretty stupid, I really wanted to see Cena lose clean here, than the whole Nash attack afterwards, which led to nothing was a bag of bullshit. Still ***3/4 from me


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

That new History of WWE DVD better be good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Jeff/Punk TLC is a little overrated to me, but still great though. Now if only they had Christian/Regal from BP to happen at SSlam instead...


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I have Jeff/Punk at *** and I may even think that is high. The lack of creativity in that match was amazing. I also didn't like the finish at all.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would go ★★★¼ for it. Pretty dull other than Jeff doing his usual stuff with crazy spots. It's the only Punk match that seems to have a chance at entering my top 50 SummerSlam matches, so if I don't like it more when I go through all the shows, Punk will no show that list. unk3

A few matches I've (re)watched today:

Benoit vs Rock - Fully Loaded - ★★★★½
Benoit/Edge vs Orton/Batista - Raw 17/5/04 - ★★★½ (should've included this in my list)
Shelton vs Triple H - Raw 29/3/04 - ★★★★
Eddie vs Lesnar - No Way Out - ★★★★½ (great David/Goliath match where Eddie doesn't look _too_ small standing against Brock plus he works his way up cleverly with all the leg work and submission holds. Went down a little this time because Brock's rest-spots last a little too long. I hope Brock/Punk goes last next month so I can turn my stream off right before it. Have no time to watch a match where Brock loses.)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

geez noone answered me lol. Im going to try and watch some summerslam matches today, Cena/punk iirrc problem was its SOO long, come to think of it all their matches except raw 13 all are 40+mins

Jeff/Punk I actually use to have that at ****3/4, back when I was a HUGE spots guy, aw have my taste changed be funny to see how it is now 

Some Ratingz
hbk/jarett iyh ****1/2
orton/christian sd 5/6 ***3/4
sheamus/harper ***1/2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Jeff TLC held up when I watched it a few months ago. Actually when it initially happened, I think I had it around what C2D had it at, but last year when I watched it it was amazing. Jeff's best match and one of Punk's. Top-notch stuff.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The Punk V Jeff TLC match is probably the best TLC match ever in terms of believability.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Going to sit and watch Fully Loaded 1999, now. I know one or two people have spoke to me would like me to keep folks posted on my thoughts and opinions on the 1999 shows, so would anybody be down for me doing another review?

Oh, and the best singles TLC match in WWE is Edge vs. John Cena, in my opinion. I have it at a **** match still after the last time I watched it, so it still holds up having watched it today when I saw this discussion going on.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I have the Punk/Hardy TLC at ****1/2, awesome match, it's good to see a TLC match that is not filled with loads of drama


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> geez noone answered me lol. Im going to try and watch some summerslam matches today, Cena/punk iirrc problem was its SOO long, come to think of it all their matches except raw 13 all are 40+mins


Just because they feel like they're 40+ minutes doesn't mean they are . MitB match is 33ish and Summerslam is less than that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Callamus said:


> Unless they recorded the Bret/Owen and Flair/Bret ones, an Iron Man set would be pointless (for me, anyway). I own all the good ones, and even one of the bad ones (HBK/Bret) on DVD (well, HHH/Benoit is a straight to DVD copy of the show, but the quality is fantastic).
> 
> Edit: SS 03 sucks outside of the Team Austin Vs Team Bischoff match.


I really enjoyed the Ambulance match and Vince getting his ass kicked by Taker for 10 minutes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rock vs Benoit > Jericho vs Trips from Fully Loaded 2000.

i'm not exactly gaga over that Last Man Standing match, tbhayley. It's good, but that's about it. Triple H does shit all in it and Jericho was lucky he had a good babyface performance in it or else it would have been a bust. Triple H - so useless, yet such a big deal in WWE land. Why?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

At least somebody agrees with me.

And it's funny to read that about the LMS since IIRC, Jericho says HHH carried the match in his second book.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

That Jericho/HHH LMS was/is ******* in my book, I may watch it again now to confirm. As a few mentioned earlier - Fully Loaded 2000 is an awesome PPV that is often forgotten.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho's modesty there is astounding.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

ATF, more of your list, please!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> idea for discussion: top 5-10 raw matches ever


Doink/Hennig 5/24/93
Doink/Jannetty 6/21/93
Hart/Waltman 7/11/94
Austin/Michaels v. Owen/Bulldog 5/26/97
Texas 5-on-5 2/7/00
Austin/HHH v. Benoit/Jericho 5/21/01
Orton/Benoit 8/16/04
Cena/Michaels 4/23/07

Dunno about the rest. I'm guessing there should be the best Evolution tag from 2004 on there, but I'm not comfortable putting it on there immediately. Feels like I'm forgetting something from 94, but I could be thinking of Action Zone or whatever matches. Rey/Cena could use a re-watch, and I could see Henry/Punk as a contender but I'm not sure. Still haven't seen the best of Raw this year other than the Shield tag with Kofi, which on first watch I don't think makes the cut. I honestly think the best Booker/Goldust v. Jericho/Christian tag is good enough for consideration. I didn't think a top ten (eight) Raw matches would look like this, what am I missing?


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Maybe it would've been easier to discuss your top 10 Smackdown matches as it hasn't been around for as long?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Raw matches? I certainly haven't watched all of the Raw matches in history, and I probably don't even remember half of those I have watched, but here's what I've got on my list:

(****1/4)
1) HBK/Benjamin Gold Rush 2005
2) HBK/Cena Raw 2007
3) Shield/Hell No and Kofi 5/20/13
(****)
4) Bryan/Cesaro Raw 7/22/13
5) Punk/Cena 2/25/13
6) Punk/Ziggler Raw November 2011
7) HBK/Benoit Raw May 2004
8) Shield/Taker and Hell No 4/22/13
9) HBK/HHH Raw December 2003
10) Edge/Orton Raw after Backlash 2007

For Smackdown:

(****3/4)
1) Taker/Angle September 2003
(****1/2)
2) Lesnar/Angle Ironman 2003
(****1/4)
3) Austin/Benoit 2001
4) Eddie/Rey June 2005
(****)
5) Taker/Cena 2004
6) Mysterio/Morrison 2009
7) Taker/Punk September 2010
8) Taker/Angle 2006
9) Taker/Orton 2005
10) Benoit/Orton NHB 2006


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I probably wouldn't have the '97 tag match make my top ten. Been matches this year I've thought higher of than it for example.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Doink/Hennig 5/24/93
> Doink/Jannetty 6/21/93
> Hart/Waltman 7/11/94
> Austin/Michaels v. Owen/Bulldog 5/26/97
> ...


Interesting, hart/kid went down for me on the last watch, was disappointed, use to have it in very high regard but didnt like it that much. I forgot that rey/cena match, is a excellent that should definitely be up their I got it at ****1/2 very good.

Some summerslam ratingz

punk/hardy *** decent, punk carried hardy pretty well, VERY DULL middle portion and it picked up at the end, insane bumps by Hardy though geez man

orton/cena ***+, ok, meh control portions by Orton, I guess this was pre-viper but post LK days so it kinda weird, ok match not bad just meh, hot crowd though, so many restholds

in year date order
flair/perfect
hbk/janetty
hbk,scsa vs owen/davey
hbk/hhh raw 03
hbk/benoit 04
hbk/cena hour
cena/rey 11
cena/punk 13


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hart/123 Kid would, off of the top of my head, be my #1 for teh Monday Nite Showww.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There also are so BOOMING razor/hbk matches that should be in consideration also


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on SSlam 2009, y'all?


Fun PPV. Love love love Punk V Hardy for the title. Cena V Orton was solid, DX V Legacy was a good tag match and a good opener with Rey Rey & Dolph. 


Really cool poster as well. I really miss MVP.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Orton/Cena from Summerslam 2009 was shit. Why have Orton get disqualified and counted out but only for him to win clean in the end? fpalm


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Orton/Cena from Summerslam 2009 was shit. Why have Orton get disqualified and counted out but only for him to win clean in the end? fpalm


Not clean because DiBiase's brother laid out the referee when Orton was in the STF.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Not clean because DiBiase's brother laid out the referee when Orton was in the STF.


 I guess so. Just weird that after the third restart, Orton wins with a normal RKO that doesn't involve any cheating or distractions.


----------



## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

I just rewatched Brock vs Cena Extreme Rules 2012.

It shows exactly why everyone hates Cena on here. He gets destroyed the whole match; then, at the end, two moves and it's over.

Brock looked like a beast, especially at the start when they stopped the match twice to check on Cena. It sucks Brock had to lose.

I hope we get a rematch between these two at some point.

I'd give the match an A-.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

I need to go back and rewatch some of these Raw matches. Speaking of which, one of my favorite dvd sets has to be the Raw 15th anniversary one. So many awesome matches on there. At the moment my personal favorite is Hart/123 Kid, I didn't know what to expect and it blew me away 

As far as iron man matches go they are a bit hit and miss. I personally though the Lesnar/Angle iron man match was the worst in their series. Speaking of Brock Lesnar I recently watched the Here Comes the Pain set and was sad they left out some matches but included the "masterpiece" of Lesnar/Goldberg :no: but overall a good collection especially the Taker matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena/Lesnar has a special place in my heart. It's one of the few occasions where I can excuse the typical Cena structure because quite frankly the match just did a good job disguising it. It's such a unique match imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on SSlam 2009, y'all?


Three damn good matches in Rey/Ziggler, DX/Legacy, & Punk/Hardy TLC automatically gives it a thumbs up from me. I for one didn't think think Cena/Orton was all that bad, it was actually kind of fun knowing all the shenanigans were coming. Pretty much everything else on the show is forgettable... cause I don't remember any of it. 



redskins25 said:


> Corey I havent seen you in awhile man,


Yeah, been basically having the same routine everyday of waking up, hitting the gym, eating, working, xbox, then going to sleep and repeating the process so my wrestling interest has somewhat dwindled. Then I went on a 3 day vacation and now I'm back. Now I'm gonna post this smiley cause it's new and stuff: :woolcock



Yeah1993 said:


> Doink/Jannetty 6/21/93
> 
> what am I missing?


Kudos for dropping in some of those Doink matches, especially that one. More people need to realize how fucking awesome of a talent and gimmick the original Doink was and watch the Jannetty match especially. Great stuff. 

Cena/Punk from this year would probably make my list. Two others than stand out are HBK/Shelton in the Gold Rush and Miz/Morrison Falls Count Anywhere. Not sure how high they'd be but I love the hell out of both of them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Hart/123 Kid would, off of the top of my head, be my #1 for teh Monday Nite Showww.




Same.

I should find out my favorite tag team match from RAW. b/c atm, I have no clue.

-----------

I like SummerSlam 2009. If only Christian vs Regal wasn't a jip job; that could have helped the show look better. Still was more good than bad I'd say. Excellent energetic opener, great big level tag team match, a nice undercard tag team match, a collision between monsters that is tolerable + right guy won, & a fun main event. Hard to believe Khali is in the good pile of a 2009 show meanwhile Swagger, Christian, Regal, Orton, & Cena are not. :hmm:

Although..._(to ramble on some more) _Cena vs Orton could be fun if you look at it from a fuckery perspective. b/c those false endings bring the lulz. Guess that's better than being crap without a goofy positive behind it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HBK V Shelton Benjamin on RAW gave us probably the best SCM of all time. 

LOVED Bret V 123 Kid. Also loved Perfect V Flair in 1993. Hard to pick a fave RAW match of all time. Wow tough call. The HBK/Rey match after Eddie died was awesome as was the Cena/Rey match for the title before Punk came back.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No doubt. Cena vs Mysterio is tremendous. Watched it about a week ago; holds up very well.


----------



## kanerules88 (Jun 28, 2011)

Can't seem to get into any wrestling lately. Anyone have any suggestion.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Been meaning to give Cena/Rey a re-watch. Right now, though, I've taken a break from WWE and I'm mostly watching indy stuff. Man, Young Bucks heel work in PWG in 2011 is some of the best I have ever seen! Why wasn't I a fan of these guys back then? Used to label them as spot monkeys when they're freaking not! 

Anyway, keeping it WWE related. Did I just read right? Christian and Regal had a bad match? Is that even possible?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know it's a hard question macho that why I asked it:hbk2, 

@Corey I hear yea man I'm about to have the same schedule just swap out the Xbox for a ps3. 
----

Yea that cena/Rey match is excellent just watched it two days ago, very good


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Austin/Angle from Summerslam 2001 for (I think) the first time. Great match, but please tell me I'm not the only one who notices how Earl Hebner telegraphs his pinfalls. Drives me crazy how he slows it way down at about 2 and a half.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Anyway, keeping it WWE related. Did I just read right? Christian and Regal had a bad match? Is that even possible?


It goes nine seconds. I know, I know...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

High Spots has a lot of shit I want. The Guerrero/Malenko tv title set, a couple of the Punk IWA mid south discs (volume 2 especially), an Eddie G set, the history of the NWA title in Japan (lots of awesome old Flair and Harley Race matches) and the Sting Japan set....this is the only place I can find the Sting/Rude match where Rude gets hurt and it's his last match I believe.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

I finally got around to watching Payback on Blu-ray. To me, WWE has been a hot streak with PPVs since TLC, with every PPV featuring at least two really good to great matches. This one was no different.

*Triple-Threat Match for the Intercontinental Title*: Wade Barrett vs. The Miz vs. Curtis Axel
I don't think anyone expected this to be quite so much fun. A traditional triple-threat match, but a quick pace, lots of action, and such a simple, but intelligent finish. It played off perfectly, and I definitely appreciate Axel winning this on Father's Day. Kind of glad it was him instead of Fandango here.

***1/2

*Divas Title*: Kaitlyn vs. AJ
This has got to be one of the best divas title matches ever, though that's not really saying much. The story worked here, AJ bumped like crazy, Kaitlyn looked strong, but they both played their characters well. This got plenty of time, but it was never boring. Nice way of making AJ look relentless and evil here.

***

*United States Championship*: Dean Ambrose vs. Kane
For whatever reason, this just did not work. They both tried hard, I'll give them that, but it never clicked. This really felt like a match on RAW.

**1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship*: Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio
Wow, you guys weren't kidding. From the first bell, you could see the double turn. Del Rio probably thought, he capitalized on me, I'm going to do the same to him. He felt justified, as any good villain should. The beating was merciless, but Ziggler looked great fighting him off. I've never quite seen a 14-minute semi-squash like this, but it worked. I especially loved Ziggler getting in a zig-zag at the end.

***3/4

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho
This was a strong, simple co-main event. I appreciate that they let them go about 5 minutes more than I expected, too. This was pure wrestling, none of the crap from their WM match, though not as strong towards the end, either. So it about evens out. There were some great nearfalls, the crowd was hot, and it was never boring. Not a huge fan of the end, since it was just a simple "break out of the walls, hit the finisher," but it was acceptable.

***3/4

*WWE Tag Team Championship*: The Shield vs. Randy Orton & Daniel Bryan
Considering this was more or less allotted a piss-break spot, they worked hard to get the crowd from quiet to on their feet, especially since this following TWO great matches. Orton & Bryan made a nice dream team, Shield always brings it. This was not a classic by any means, but good nonetheless.

***1/4

*Three Stages of Hell Match for the WWE Championship*: John Cena vs. Ryback
You could look at this matches two ways: as an entertaining, attitude-era nonsense brawl, which is what it is. Or as a hollow, ridiculous mess of a main event. Either is true. The lumberjack match is just a regular match with a couple of lumberjack spots, the tables match is actually pretty good, and even I think the ambulance match is ridiculous. All they do is take apart the ambulance piece by piece and hit each other with it, until Cena AAs Ryback through the ambulance, which, despite the rules of the match, is considered acceptable. The crowd was kind of silent because they were confused. So I won't lie, this match was fun to watch, never boring, but it's also not good for you.

**3/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> It goes nine seconds. I know, I know...


Oh.....lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I just watched Christian vs Regal twice in a row... all I can say is: :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Highspots having their ECW sets are very tempting for me. Something about owning full ECW shows - not just PPVs - sounds like a damn good score that I should take advantage of.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Just watched Austin/Angle from Summerslam 2001 for (I think) the first time. Great match, but please tell me I'm not the only one who notices how Earl Hebner telegraphs his pinfalls. Drives me crazy how he slows it way down at about 2 and a half.


HATE how Earl does that stupid thing on the 3rd count (for kickouts of course) where he basically lunges his entire body at the mat like the hand isn't the only thing that needs to count 3. It looks incredibly stupid and I'm not entirely sure why he's always done it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I may be the only person in this thread that hasnt seen angle/austin yet, I think the other Greg also


----------



## Throw-ya-L's-up (Jul 29, 2013)

Just picked up Bloodbath, Wrestling's most incredible cage matches. Can't watch it right now cause my gf is occupying the TV.


Are most of the matches full length or does WWE edit some stuff out? Just curious


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lord have mercy. I could not find a torrent or a stream of any Ric Flair or Daniel Bryan matches that I am interested in, so I resorted to taking the fall for all of you and watching Total Divas. Certainly better than watching RAW from 2005-2007 :cena. That boy D-Bry steady showing the masses his unlimited charisma.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Great match, but please tell me I'm not the only one who notices how Earl Hebner telegraphs his pinfalls. Drives me crazy how he slows it way down at about 2 and a half.


Yeah I hate that fucking bullshit. Throw in the fact he can be too intrusive and I kind of hate him as a referee. 'Senior' referee. Whatever, he is a pain in the ass.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel, and Daniel Bryan steady burying females like the vanilla giants that they are :bryan2. Cena already buried his woman on the first episode; can't wait for the rest. Lou Thesz must be rolling in his grave. Also weird to see that the WWE signed a person younger than all of us.

Speaking of which, is anyone here well-versed in WCCW? I found a top 175 matches list from DVDVR, but I can only find like three of the matches on there.

HBK/Jarrett IYH: Lumberjacks: *****1/2*
Something about this match just perfectly clicks. Can't really find any flaws.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

the top 175 from DVDVR is all on the WCCW set made by some of the dudes who post at DVDVR (or used or w/e). The matches are ranked by any member who was willing to watch the set and hand in a list.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If we are talking 'Greatest Raw matches', Owen/Davey from '97 has gotta be up there.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy fuck, totally forgot about this promo until a second ago. So fucking good.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> If we are talking 'Greatest Raw matches', Owen/Davey from '97 has gotta be up there.


Craaaaaap I knew I forgot something major. Pretty sure that'd be in my top 10, maybe top 5, on certain days probably #2.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11

*Technical problems with Wordpad made me miss these:*

*(**)
234 - Booker T vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2006









(**1/2)
207 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, Unforgiven 2004









(****)
86 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004







*

*Part 12 (60-41)*

*(****1/4)
60 - Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008









59 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011









58 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013









57 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010









56 - Triple H vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2008









55 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007









54 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2007









53 - Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004









52 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2007









51 - Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, King Of The Ring 1993









50 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000









49 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania XIX/19









48 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit, Fully Loaded 2000









47 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker









46 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007









45 - Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000









44 - Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Umaga, No Way Out 2008









43 - Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania V/5









42 - John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006









41 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23







*​




Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
283 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
282 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
281 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
280 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
279 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
278 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
277 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
276 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
275 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
274 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
273 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
272 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
271 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
270 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
269 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
268 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
267 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
266 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
265 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
264 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
263 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
262 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
261 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
260 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
259 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
258 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
257 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
256 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
255 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
254 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
253 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
252 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
251 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
250 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
249 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
248 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
247 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
246 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
245 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
244 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
243 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
242 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
241 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 25
240 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
239 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
238 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
237 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
235 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
234 - Booker T vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2006
233 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
232 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
231 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
230 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
229 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
228 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
227 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
226 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
225 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
224 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
223 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
222 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
221 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
220 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
219 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
218 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
217 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
216 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
215 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
214 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
213 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
212 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
211 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
210 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
208 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
207 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, Unforgiven 2004 *(Missed this one )*
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
204 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
203 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
202 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
201 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
200 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
199 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
198 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
197 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
196 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
195 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
*(***1/2)*
145 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
144 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
143 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
142 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
141 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
140 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
139 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
138 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
137 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
136 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
135 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
134 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
133 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
132 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
131 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
130 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
129 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
128 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
127 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
126 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
125 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
124 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
123 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
122 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
*(***3/4)*
121 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987
120 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008
119 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
118 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007
117 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006
116 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011
115 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011
114 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013
113 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
112 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004
111 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001
110 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
109 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996
108 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
107 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000
106 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
105 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
104 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
103 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008
101 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2011
100 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Taboo Tuesday 2005
99 - Edge vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2006
98 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009
97 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
96 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
95 - Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996
94 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
93 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XV/15
*(****)*
92 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman, One Night Stand 2005
91 - John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler, TLC 2012
90 - John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
89 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
88 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008
87 - JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
86 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
85 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
84 - Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006
83 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
82 - Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, Vengeance 2003
81 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2001
80 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Brothers Of Destruction, Backlash 2001
79 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
78 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
77 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1991
76 - The British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels, One Night Only 1997
75 - John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
74 - Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Mercy 2005
73 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
72 - The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
71 - Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
70 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgment Day 2003
69 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
68 - Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw, Survivor Series 2005
67 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
66 - Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
65 - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
64 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania VI/6
*(****1/4)*
63 - Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
62 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997
61 - Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998
60 - Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
59 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
58 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
57 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
56 - Triple H vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2008
55 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
54 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2007
53 - Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
52 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2007
51 - Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, King Of The Ring 1993
50 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
49 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania XIX/19
48 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit, Fully Loaded 2000
47 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
46 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
45 - Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
44 - Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Umaga, No Way Out 2008
43 - Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania V/5
42 - John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
41 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hell fucking yes at number 51. Such a forgotten gem. Probably bam bam's best in the company. Don't agree with a lot of the rest though.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

From this list, a few I agree with in terms of ratings/placements on the list:

Jericho/Cena
HHH/Lesnar
HHH/Cena
6 man HIAC (surprised this was this high, I do love it though. One of my favourites)
Rock/Benoit
HHH/Orton LMS

A couple I disagree with:

Team HHH/Team Orton - Not that fond of this, it's fine but feels a little rushed throughout.
Angle/Lesnar - Match is good but I wouldn't personally have it that high.
Savage/Hogan - See above.

As I said in my rep comment - really enjoying this countdown, looking forward to the next installment.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

37 more points to get to 1000 rep :mark:

Anyway, to address ABH's points:

- Team HHH/Team Orton was indeed rushed, but I felt that it succesfully mixed that rush with its storytelling and its own chaotic structure, which was awesome. Also, Snitsky killing Maven added points.

- Angle/Lesnar, probably their worst match, but I still thought that, even with Angle shenanigans, was awesome and heart-racing. The BORK effect :brock

- Savage/Hogan told an awesome story on the explosion of the Mega Powers. Though I may have slightly overplaced it, yeah.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Brye said:


> Holy fuck, totally forgot about this promo until a second ago. So fucking good.


Dat Regal though. Dude would be so useful on television these days. Oh well.

Still enjoying the list, ATF. Don't really have much issue with the newest edition, but I've not seen the Survivor Series 2004 match as well as few others. Need to watch Trips/Cena/Edge from Backlash for my Trips project.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just randomly watched the Punk documentary again for like the 10th time (already one of my all time fav wrestling docs), and damn I have the urge to watch the Punk/Cena series. I remember someone here reviewed all their matches a little while ago so I might do the same. Nice of someone on XWT to post all of their matches together in a pack to make it easier for me .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

41 is the best wwe title match in history so it's kinda low


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Michaels WM 23 the best WWE title match ever, redskins?

Wow.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*sorry at wrestlemania,


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

#48 is too awesome. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Michaels is not Rock/Austin II, skins. :lol

C2D, I knew you'd mark out at that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Jericho would be my #1 WWE title match at WM. Blows away HBK/Cena which I like a lot, and goes just ahead of Austin/Rock II.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock/Austin II is the easy GOAT WWE Championship match in Wrestlemania history imo.

And ATF, this pic is better than WWE's bullshit. In the same size as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goddammit, where do you get those Benoit pics, C2D?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

From what I've seen on here HBK/Cena is pretty fucking underrated. Id consider it a top 5 wwe title match. That spinebuster on the steel steps was epic.. I have HBK/Cena at ****1/2

Austin/Rock WM 17 is GOAT though for wwe title matches. ****3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Piledriver, not spinebuster iirc 

I agree it's underrated but it's way too long and tries exaggeratedly much to make Cena look like a no-luck underdog.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/cena is very underrated, Cena's best wm match should be a bigger deal, Some are put off by "Shawn 00s" but the match is great, IMO better than austin/rock 2 and punk/y2j( I actually think er 12 smokes it).


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Austin/Rock WM17 is still ******* from me, I think I dig the heel turn a lot more than others which gives it that extra impact. HBK/Cena is great, some in here rate it extremely highly (I think I've seen a *****3/4* rating thrown at it before), while some think it's a bit of a squash. *****1/4* from me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like HBK/Cena a lot, but as good as it is it wasn't even MOTN at that WM imo lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal is spot-on. Batista/Taker not ME'ing WM 23 was quite the stupid.

But also, I know that tonight, we reach to some in the Top 40 of my list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have no idea why Batista/Taker didn't main event even though it was the rightful match to go last since Taker was the Rumble winner. Well, they reversed the roles the next year with Cena winning but Taker main eventing so I guess the favor was returned. (and luckily, Orton got his rightful main event spot the next year even if the match sucked)



ATF said:


> Goddammit, where do you get those Benoit pics, C2D?


Ha, it's my expertize when it comes to google searching.  (although that Crossface pic is pretty easy to find)

There are still plenty of Benoit pics on WWE.com but most of them are for the Raw/Smackdown episodes that are archived from 2005, 06 and 07. A few PPV pics are available too from "historical photos" collections that they put up before his death. But ever since they updated their page and how it looks, in every PPV photo collection, they've gotten rid of him.

Otherwise, I go to archive.com and look through what is available from wwe.com from when Benoit was around and use "copy image location" to find the same pic in proper size still available elsewhere.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> *Piledriver, not spinebuster iirc
> 
> I agree it's underrated but it's way too long and tries exaggeratedly much to make Cena look like a no-luck underdog.




Jesus Christ. Long morning lol my apologies. 

I honestly don't think Batista/Taker was MOTN at WM. Good match for sure. I have it at ****1/4

My favorite Batista/Taker match was they're LMS at backlash. So underrated


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

How are we gonna talk about the best WWE Title matches in Mania history and no one mentions Hogan vs. Warrior? Talk about a classic. I'm not sure if that match will ever get old. **** 1/2 all the way.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just took the time to rewatch Batista/Taker because i really didn't think that much of it the first time I watched it. It is a very good big man encounter. I loved Batista coming off the top rope early on the match, and Taker's suicide dive looked pretty damn nice. I'm willing to go up to **** for this match, but I'd appreciate people's thoughts on what makes this match great. I'll need to watch HBK/Cena again to compare, but I still think that holds up as the better match of that night.


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> *Some are put off by "Shawn 00s"*


I've never heard this against HBK & if so what a shit reason.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For whatever reason, imma rewatch the 2004 Rumble


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ever Wolf said:


> I've never heard this against HBK & if so what a shit reason.


Iirc isnt ranged from him being over-dramatic in matches or being a blanted babyface who didnt take beating well not 100% sure though

Batista/taker ****1/4- outside of the hbk/taker amtches, the most "fun" match to watch from the of the streak, very enjoyable. I use to have hbk/cena at ****3/4 but it did drags a bit so its at ****1/2 now


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think Cena/HBK WM 23 gets overshadowed by their match on RAW the following night. Man, I wonder if WWE would ever put an hour long match on TV again? And I don't buy the excuse that the casuals won't buy it cause trust me, I was as casual/mark as it got back then and I enjoyed every minute of it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I think Cena/HBK WM 23 gets overshadowed by their match on RAW the following night. Man, I wonder if WWE would ever put an hour long match on TV again?


They nearly did with Bryan this past Monday, unless gauntlet matches don't count. He did go about 40 minute or so.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Batista WM23 I'd put comfortably above HBK/Cena WM23. The former just packed more a punch in a smaller time, never dragged like the latter did, and to top it off, had a favorable result. Not a knock though on HBK/Cena. Taker/Batista's a classic and 2007 MOTY for me, and the latter is an excellent Mania main event.

That all being said, while at the time it was a travesty that Taker/Batista didn't main event, in hindsight I'm fine with it since they let Taker get the main event with Edge the year after.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, the 2004 Rumble still holds up.


----------



## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

Just rewatched Brock vs Triple H Extreme Rules.

Brock's selling made that match. It looked (and sounded) real. I was feeling for him when he was in the Sharpshooter and Figure-4, though I know it's fake.

The Heyman convo was funny -- "Shake it off Braaackk!" Haha. And of course, "That's my manager!"

The ending was cool. I like how he took a lot of time to pick up Triple H and hit the F5. It was anti-climatic, which I know many of you hate, but it gave the feeling that the feud is done forever.

It was odd at the end when Brock put the sledgehammer on Hunter -- he crossed Triple H's arms over the sledgehammer, and then Triple H put his arms down. 

I'm glad Brock won. Had he lost after screaming his lungs out the whole match, his career would've been over.

Overall, good match. Brock's selling was masterful.

I think this match was the best one of the trilogy.

B+


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I've said it about a million times, but Brock's selling is what made the Summerslam and ER matches not completely terrible for me. The man is brilliant at that game and it's funny because I hate it when he's booked like that, getting beatdown a bit and having to sell at all... but he plays it oh so well. Then again, there's not really anything wrestling-wise Brock doesn't do well, but his selling may be his strongest attribute.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Thought Michaels/Cena was OK and Batista/Undertaker was great.
There was a point where I didn't like 00's Michaels he seemed so helpless at times, was so disappointed when he became a babyface again in '05.
I still haven't seen the 60 min Michaels/Cena match, when it originally happened I was on the computer wondering why the hell the match hadn't ended yet.
Hated Lesnars selling at ER, way too much whinning.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Punk/Jericho would be my #1 WWE title match at WM.


(Y)

My top five is kind of set, but that's easily secured for #1. tbhayley, there isn't a lot of WWE championship matches from WM I love. Only a handful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm the same. As big and grand as WM is, and as awesome as some WM matches have been, WWE title matches more often than not are pretty disappointing or pure shite.

UK peeps, check this out http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=1010 .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just some matches that I have seen this days:


DiBiase/Ramon- **3/4, SS93
Mr.Perfect/HbK- **- SS93
Edge/Jarret- ***1/4, FL99
HHH/Rock- *** FL99
Austin/Taker- **1/2 FL99

And some WCW:

Eddie/P.Iaukea- **1/2 Thunder 98


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Out of twenty-nine WrestleMania's I only like or love about ten WWE Championship matches. And the loved ones are really scarce. :lmao

Undertaker vs Sid wasn't counted b/c I remember nothing about it except for the final 30 seconds.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker Vs SID would have been a really good match had they took 10 minutes off it. Less SID hugging Undertaker for minutes at a time over and over again lol. Still thought it was a decent match though, **3/4 I think I gave it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Went 20+ minutes. Probably not the best move on WWF's part. Wouldn't think an Undertaker vs Sid match would benefit going that long.

All memories I have of WM 13 is that it sucked. Yet from what I've seen from my childhood - now is Austin vs Hart _(a classic)_ & the Chicago Street Fight _(which is_ :mark So far, my memory is trash. I want to own it just to see Vader & Foley vs Hart & Smith.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HBK/Cena would be #1 for me but I've got Jericho/Punk at a close #2. Lesnar/Angle probably at #3.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 13 was a pleasant surprise for me when I watched it. Austin/Bret is uberawesome, that Chicago Street Fight is like the funnest thing ever, SID/Taker is good, and I loved the shit out of the tag titles match. First 3 matches are shit, but then its all good from there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top WWE Title match for me would be Austin/Rock WM17, followed by Punk/Jericho WM28.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shocked flair/macho hasnt been mentioned once


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I had to think about WWE Championship matches at Wrestlemania and yes, there aren't too many to write home about. I would have to say Lesnar/Angle is the best one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean Rocky Maivia vs The Sultan wasn't good? Shocker.

8*D


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL fuck that match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Sheamus matches

*WM 26* - **3/4. This match can fuck off.
*Extreme Rules* - ***1/2. Enjoyed this. Trips, like always, sells injuries really well, and Sheamus had attacked him earlier in the night, and there was question as to whether or not he would compete. Camera shows him making his way to the ring from the trainer's room with his left arm just hanging. Sheamus is in control for most of the match, and plays the heel pretty well, but Trips' selling is very good, even when he's hitting offensive moves, he sells the effect that the moves have on him, such as the DDT, and when he tries to lock up for the Pedigree early on, he has trouble locking his hands because of the nerve damage. 

I thought Matt Striker's commentary was pretty good, both matches actually, but in the Extreme Rules match he has great observations and gives good knowledge of Triple H's injuries. He's also good at being the unbiased commentator, while Cole just buries Sheamus as a heel. 

Checking out some Trips/REGAL matches.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Batista/Cena- ***1/2
Lesnar/Angle- ****
Punk/Y2J- ***3/4

Like my rating say, I found the Lesnar/Angle bout better than the one from WM28


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Such a shame that Regal fucked up in 2008. He was on tap for a WWE title feud at the very least back then. Who knows what would have happened for him had he not got suspended. 

Lord Stevan Regal vs. Terra Ryzin for the WWE title. Who woulda thunk it?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Such a shame that Regal fucked up in 2008. He was on tap for a WWE title feud at the very least back then. Who knows what would have happened for him had he not got suspended.
> 
> Lord Stevan Regal vs. Terra Ryzin for the WWE title. Who woulda thunk it?


That would have been fantastic.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The build to Wrestlemania 13 has been pretty good, I must say. The fatal four way match between Vader, Taker, Bret Hart and Austin was great. Vader's eye was bleeding so badly in this one. Surprised to see Hart win this match because I thought Taker would win and then challenge Sid for the title. Then I watched the RAW after Mania and Sid beats Hart for the title because Austin interfered in the match and then Taker came out and had a staredown with Sid. 

Things are looking pretty good thus far. HHH is still feuding with Goldust but now Chyna has just debuted, it should get better. It's a little weird how Rocky Maivia became the champion with absolutely no build whatsoever. 

Anyone know when Kane's debut is first teased? Bearer and Taker are in both different storylines at the moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Triple H from WM >>> their Extreme Rules street fight. 

The latter may have had Sheamus winning and that does curry so much more favor for me, but the street fight was so bleh and typical Triple H ego bullshit that it kind of fuck off. Four brogue kicks on account to already being injured plus nearly 16 minutes before he falls? :lmao what a piece of shit.

The WM match is actually nicely done. Good underrated match right there. Funny how those are the Triple H matches that don't get talked about. The ones he doesn't do his stupid crap in and they're forgotten. Oh the irony.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Brye said:


> That would have been fantastic.


I remember Regal fucking with Game during the Orton feud, turning the lights off during his matches etc lol, making him team with Kennedy to fight the entire Raw roster. They were clearly heading for a Regal/HHH program. Given the history between the two I think it would have turned out to be something worth seeing. Unfortunately it's just another thing on the 'what if' list.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12


*Part 12 (40-21)*

*(****1/4)
40 - Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004









39 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008









(****1/2)
38 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2001









37 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012









36 - John Cena vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2005









35 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005









34 - Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000









33 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002









32 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Season's Beatings









31 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton, Backlash 2007









30 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002









29 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash









28 - Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania XXIV/24









27 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004









26 - Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001









25 - Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XIV/14









24 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 14: Final Four









23 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000









22 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004









21 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
284 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
283 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
282 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
281 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
280 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
279 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
278 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
277 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
276 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
275 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
274 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
273 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
272 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
271 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
270 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
269 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
268 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
267 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
266 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
265 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
264 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
263 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
262 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
261 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
260 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
259 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
258 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
257 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
256 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
255 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
254 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
253 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
252 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
250 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
249 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
248 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
247 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
245 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
244 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
243 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
242 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
241 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 25
240 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
239 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
238 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
237 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
235 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
234 - Booker T vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2006
233 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
232 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
231 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
230 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
229 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
228 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
227 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
226 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
225 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
224 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
223 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
222 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
221 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
220 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
219 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
218 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
217 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
216 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
215 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
214 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
213 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
212 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
211 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
210 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
208 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
207 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, Unforgiven 2004 (Missed this one )
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
206 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
205 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
204 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
203 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
202 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
200 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
199 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
198 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
197 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
196 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
195 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, Judgment Day 2008
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
(***1/2)
145 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
144 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
143 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
142 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
141 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
140 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
139 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
138 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
137 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
136 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
135 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
134 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
133 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
132 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
131 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
130 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
129 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
128 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
127 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
126 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
125 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
124 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
123 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
122 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
*(***3/4)*
121 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987
120 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008
119 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
118 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007
117 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006
116 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011
115 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011
114 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013
113 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
112 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004
111 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001
110 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
109 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996
108 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
107 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000
106 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
105 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
104 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
103 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008
101 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2011
100 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Taboo Tuesday 2005
99 - Edge vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2006
98 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009
97 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
96 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
95 - Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996
94 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
93 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XV/15
*(****)*
92 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman, One Night Stand 2005
91 - John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler, TLC 2012
90 - John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
89 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
88 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008
87 - JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
86 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
85 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
84 - Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006
83 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
82 - Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, Vengeance 2003
81 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2001
80 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Brothers Of Destruction, Backlash 2001
79 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
78 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
77 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1991
76 - The British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels, One Night Only 1997
75 - John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
74 - Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Mercy 2005
73 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
72 - The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
71 - Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
70 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgment Day 2003
69 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
68 - Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw, Survivor Series 2005
67 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
66 - Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
65 - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
64 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania VI/6
*(****1/4)*
63 - Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
62 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997
61 - Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998
60 - Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
59 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
58 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
57 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
56 - Triple H vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2008
55 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
54 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2007
53 - Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
52 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2007
51 - Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, King Of The Ring 1993
50 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
49 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania XIX/19
48 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit, Fully Loaded 2000
47 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
46 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
45 - Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
44 - Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Umaga, No Way Out 2008
43 - Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania V/5
42 - John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
41 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23
40 - Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004
39 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
*(****1/2)*
38 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2001
37 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
36 - John Cena vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2005
35 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005
34 - Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000
33 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002
32 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Season's Beatings
31 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton, Backlash 2007
30 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002
29 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
28 - Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania XXIV/24
27 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004
26 - Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
25 - Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XIV/14
24 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 14: Final Four
23 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000
22 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
21 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Sheamus vs Triple H from WM >>> their Extreme Rules street fight.
> 
> The latter may have had Sheamus winning and that does curry so much more favor for me, but the street fight was so bleh and typical Triple H ego bullshit that it kind of fuck off. Four brogue kicks on account to already being injured plus nearly 16 minutes before he falls? :lmao what a piece of shit.
> 
> The WM match is actually nicely done. Good underrated match right there. Funny how those are the Triple H matches that don't get talked about. The ones he doesn't do his stupid crap in and they're forgotten. Oh the irony.


I like the WM match too. Wasn't fantastic or anything, but a solid match with HHH who isn't nearly as awesome as he's made out to be vs Sheamus who was still pretty darn green at the time. When Sheamus randomly won the WWE title from Cena, I said from the start that the best thing that could happen to Sheamus is him losing the belt. He had a terrible title run with shitty matches, then the moment he lost it he started improving and the first thing he did was feud with HHH at Wrestle-fucking-Mania and had a solid match and continued to get better from there (shame his matches with HHH didn't).


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, I've never seen Austin/HBK WM rated that high. 

I still haven't seen Team Alliance vs Team WWF.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Austin from WM really, really sucks imo. Like, nothing remotely worth seeing at all.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HBK/Austin, to me, is that match I'll take to the grave as amazing. Focusing the story on HBK's back was really awesome, and I thought they did a nice job of doing a brawling/wrestling mixed style match. I love it and I don't care how "not so great" it is.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK's entrance is better than the match itself imo.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Damn, I've never seen Austin/HBK WM rated that high.
> 
> I still haven't seen Team Alliance vs Team WWF.


Blassie's speech >>>>>>>>>>>> 

Last time I watched that I wanted to take on the world. 

GET UP! STAND UP!






:lmao


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Damn, I've never seen Austin/HBK WM rated that high.
> 
> I still haven't seen Team Alliance vs Team WWF.


Fun match from what I remember. Been way too long since I've seen it though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive never seen hbk/austin that high either, should give it a another watch, its one of my favorite builds ever loved it, and hbk's badass entrance alone is worth ***********

watched some eddie/rey

HH 97 ****1/4
6/05 ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Damn, I've never seen Austin/HBK WM rated that high.
> 
> I still haven't seen Team Alliance vs Team WWF.


LOVE that match, watch it ASAP (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

OK, I need to track that match down now :lmao

edit  Thanks

edit2 It's an hour long?!?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 01 match is tremendous. Probably the best SS elimination match, aside from the huge 1828763654353 man one with the tag teams in... 88? 89? I know both events had one but one of them was super awesome and went about 40 minutes.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Shane O'Mac in this match is hilarious :lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Team WWF vs Team Alliance is awesome, the best SS elimination match for sure. The atmosphere is incredible too.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Re WrestleMania 13. They should split up that Tag Title match and put on Bret vs Owen and Manking vs Vader. Foley and Vader were a volatile team anyway and Mankind was pissed that he wasn't in the Final Four asking 'Uncle Paul' could he make it a Final 5. Foley/Vader would've been awesome and Owen Hart had proven that he could carry the British Log to a great match. I don't remember much about Hunter vs Goldust though. Anyway, those two matches added would've made Mania 13 a better card.

Can't believe people are putting Punk/Jericho ahead of Savage/Hogan, Savage/Flair, HBK/Diesel and Brock/Angle in terms of WrestleMania WWF/E title matches.

I didn't think Punk/Jericho was all that great. It was good but nothing special. Very forgettable imo like the last half doze WWE title matches (going back to Cena/HBK anyway)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Blassie's speech >>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Last time I watched that I wanted to take on the world.
> 
> ...


More Blassie. DAT POP.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think Punk/Jericho was anything special, either. Better than the rematch at ER, though.

Can't wait to watch this elimination match later. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Team Austin vs Team Bischoff is the GOAT SS match imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

22, 27, 33, 35, 36 and 40 from that list. <3

And ATF, just to show how awesome I am with pic finding.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

^^^^lol these Benoit pic edits are ridiculous.

Its funny when you compare the two and see the blatant edit job.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I haven't seen Team Austin vs Team Bischoff either, FUCK.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

ATF said:


> Team Austin vs Team Bischoff is the GOAT SS match imo.


Yeah, that's awesome too. They had a nice little run of SS elimination matches with 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2005 all having good-to-great ones.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dammit, I knew The Wolverine was missing from that pic :hmm:

Edit:



The Lady Killer said:


> I haven't seen Team Austin vs Team Bischoff either, FUCK.


Have you ever heard the term "GOAT performance of Shawn fuckin' Michaels"? Arguably that's in that match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Seriously? Fuck, I'll add that match to the list too. Someone have a quality link?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> ^^^^lol these Benoit pic edits are ridiculous.
> 
> Its funny when you compare the two and see the blatant edit job.


lol, to their credit, this one was not an edit. You can also see RVD is missing in the pic ATF posted as well as Benoit. At the time the others were trying to throw out the Big Show, Benoit and RVD were "fighting" on the other corner before joining the rest. The pics are taken just a few seconds apart from each other and it's obvious which one WWE will show on the front page of the event.

But make no mistake about it, they've done plenty of ridiculous photoshops with Benoit removed from pics. The most recent is the SummerSlam 2004 poster which they've posted in small pixel to make it harder to notice the edit job.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

w/the badass promo package and all. :genius


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 03 match is really good, but GOAT HBK performance might be one of the most overrated things ever. I was highly disappointed when I finally got around to re-watching it for the first time since it aired just a couple of years ago. I'd easily put the super tag elimination from 88/89 whenever the fuck it was, 01, 04 and 05 ahead of it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dat GOAT PROMO PACKAGE AND GOAT ENTRANCE

"And after tonight, who will come out champion" " You will Heartbreak" :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another "WrassleMania 29 was da worse ever" thread just opened :lol


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Not a big fan of the T.Austin/T.Bischoff match, only ***1/2, the match was kinda gravy until HBK entered the scene, Shawn made this match good, the other members of his team were useless here

Team WWF vs Team Alliance has a ****1/2 from me,loved all the rock/Austin interactions here


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Someone needs to splice the Austin/Michaels King of the Ring 97 match with the definitive ending from their Mania match together to create something awesome.

I hated Tyson's involvement. He did a fast count for a start!


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> Another "WrassleMania 29 was da worse ever" thread just opened :lol




Hey I said one of the worst lmao. But now you mention it give WM match ratings guys: 

Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show: **3/4

Henry/Ryback: *

Jericho/Fandango: **1/4

Hell no vs ziggler/Langston: **3/4

Del Rio/Swagger: **1/2 

Punk/Taker: ****

Brock/HHH: **1/2 (worst of they're 3 matches

Rock/Cena: **1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show: ***1/4

Henry/Ryback: 3/4*

Jericho/Fandango: **1/4

Hell no vs ziggler/Langston: ***1/4

Del Rio/Swagger: **3/4 

Punk/Taker: ****1/2

Brock/HHH: ****

Rock/Cena: *1/2


*Oh yeah baby* *REDHEADNATALYASMILEY*


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Shielld vs Orton/Sheamus/Show- ***1/2
Ryback/Henry- DUd
Fandango/Y2J- **
He'll No vs Ziggler/Big,E- **3/4
ADR/Swagger- ***1/4
TakerPunk- ****1/2
Brock/HHh- ****1/4
Cena/Rock- ***


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I want to say it blew chunks but since I've only seen it once I'm willing to give it another shot. I just wish it would drop in price already so I can watch the damn thing. Maybe next year 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I like the WM match too. Wasn't fantastic or anything, but a solid match with HHH who isn't nearly as awesome as he's made out to be vs Sheamus who was still pretty darn green at the time. When Sheamus randomly won the WWE title from Cena, I said from the start that the best thing that could happen to Sheamus is him losing the belt. He had a terrible title run with shitty matches, then the moment he lost it he started improving and the first thing he did was feud with HHH at Wrestle-fucking-Mania and had a solid match and continued to get better from there (shame his matches with HHH didn't).


Right, wasn't a GREAT match, but it's pretty good for my money. I liked all aspects of how it was worked and let Sheamus look good despite the loss. Best PPV match up to that point. Even though that wasn't hard with the tables match vs Cena the only other one I liked. I was pro-Sheamus as Champ, solely for fandom. It was handled sooooo badly though. Nothing but squash matches for the guy considering he was still trying to find his niche in his new, big time role. Moment Sheamus jumped Triple H on RAW to set up the WM match I had a good feeling things would on go up for the man. It did. Hard to believe there was a time where he wasn't one of the most consistent and best workers on the roster.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

WM29

Shield vs Orton/Sheamus/Show- ***1/4
Ryback/Henry- *
Fandango/Y2J- **
He'll No vs Ziggler/Big,E- **3/4
ADR/Swagger- **3/4
Taker/Punk- ****3/4
Brock/HHH- *
Cena/Rock- **


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk/Taker wasn't as good on a second viewing, but that's not to say it still wasn't great. Mania on the whole was a bit of a letdown. Lesnar/HHH was still good, but like someone else said, the worst of their trilogy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never did rewatch WM, however, all memory of it is high. Only PPV I've seen all year where I enjoyed the entire way through until the main event. At least the result pleased me.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Punk/Taker wasn't as good on a second viewing, but that's not to say it still wasn't great. Mania on the whole was a bit of a letdown. Lesnar/HHH was still good, but like someone else said, the worst of their trilogy.




I agree punk/taker was indeed good. I have it at **** but IMO it was takers worst WM match since WM 22. That's saying something to have a 4 star match be the worst over 6 Wrrstlemanias.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Shield/Show, Orton & Sheamus - ***1/4
Henry/Ryback - *
Fandango/Jericho - ***1/4
Hell No/Zig E Langston - ***
Del Rio/Swagger - **3/4
Taker/Punk - ****1/2
Trips/Brock - **1/2
Rock/Cena - 1/2*


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'd probably agree, though I would need to rewatch the Batista and Edge matches. It's in that realm, though.

I'd go something like:

WM25/26
WM28
WM27
WM23/24/29


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I've watched Punk/Taker about four times. ****1/2 every time. Trips/Lesnar just plods along, and I never could get into it. I wanted so bad to like it, but I just don't. Brock is pretty great, but even he couldn't pull it away from the *** area. Shield match was good. I refuse to watch Cena/Rock more than once.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 29 gets 13.5 on the CAL SCALE and is the 12th best WM event of all time. Not really saying much because there have been some utter shitfests in the past .

The Shield Vs Sheamus, The Big Show & Randy Orton - ***1/2 - 3
Mark Henry Vs Ryback - *1/2 - 0.5
Team Hell No Vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston - **1/2 - 1
Chris Jericho Vs Fandango - **1/2 - 1
Alberto Del Rio Vs Jack Swagger - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs CM Punk - ****1/4 - 6
Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar - **3/4 - 1
The Rock Vs John Cena - * - 0


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield match at WM is really good. I don't see how anyone could call it not all b/c it wasn't "as long" as some of their others. Yes, that was a gripe I saw thrown out by a lot. Those three new guys won & got nearly eleven minutes at WM. How could you complain about that?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield match was good, and Team Hell No match was good, albeit a little short.

Punk/Taker was great. Lesnar/H was good but disappointing when compared to their other two and given that it was WM.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Punk is a match that hit all the boxes for me, even the stuff outside the match. It had a great video package and top quality entrances. It had a super-hot crowd. It felt like a big match despite being done several times by that point. The pacing was excellent, the storytelling was great, the psychology was fantastic, it had an awesome near-fall (tombstone) and a very cool ending sequence (finishers reverses). It was a little shaky but it still looked great. Also had an awesome moment with the whole elbow drop from the top rope through the announce table, which never gets old for me. I even think the fact the table didn't break added a bit to the match, and even helped Lesnar/HHH a bit and made Lesnar look that much more badass when Lesnar sent HHH through it with apparent ease. The only other thing that was botched was the whole Hells Gates into the Anaconda Vice thing, but they still did it well enough and it flowed fine. Oh, and then the moment when Taker sits up from the Vice, and the crowd just builds the pop it gets every second. Epic.

As far as Taker's last 7 WM Matches go, only match that sticks out like a sore thumb is WM27, which was still a great match:

WM25
WM29
WM26
WM23
WM24
WM28



WM27


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/taker went way down for me to ***3/4 still really good, dont liek the pacing
---

Watching hbk/austin mania you can tell Michaels is fucking up, he's stiff as hell and walking like hes got something up his ass


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rankings of Undertaker WM matches from the last 7 years:

WM 26
WM 25
WM 28
WM 27
WM 23
WM 24
WM 29

****1/4 is the lowest rated match. The TRUE Mr WM in my books .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Triple H x2 over Undertaker vs Batista?

Oh Cal, no buddy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree w/Cal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ohh thats tough, I'd take taker/hhh 27 a tad over taker/batista just for the storytelling


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can tolerate the WM 28 match, but the WM 27 one needs to go away. Never seen a match at Mania try so hard to be special in my life.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not even WM12 Ironman?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Undertaker vs Triple H x2 over Undertaker vs Batista?
> 
> Oh Cal, no buddy.





The Lady Killer said:


> I agree w/Cal.


Suck it, tbhayley .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A Triple H fan agrees. DOESN'T COUNT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ive only seen hbk/hart iron man once and that was like 2 years ago, tbh Ive forgotten everything about that match
---
hhh/taker 3 has :hbk in it


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> A Triple H fan agrees. DOESN'T COUNT.


HEY


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

This is about the order

25/26 ***** (Both are GOAT matches IMO)
28 ****3/4 
29 ****1/2
27/24 ****1/4
23 ****


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Last 7 taker mania matches: 

1. Vs HBK WM 25: *****

2..Vs HBK WM 26: ****3/4

3. Vs HHH WM 27: ****1/2

4. Vs Edge WM 24: ****1/2

5. Vs Batista WM 23: ****1/4

6. Vs HHH WM 28: ****

7. Vs Punk WM 29. ****

Yes I LOVE the WM 27 match with HHH. Takers selling was incredible


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The Taker/Batista series really makes me miss Batista. He was fairly badass.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WM 26
WM 25
WM 24
WM 29
WM 23
WM 28
WM 27

imo


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

So apparently my bud has the very rare HBK match (HBK vs. Venom) that took place in TWA (HBK's old promotion) sometime in 2000. :mark: He found it in his garage today.

Its from HBK's old TWA promotion. Hopefully I can make it around his way this weekend and give it a watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye knows what's up. 

Interesting how I seem to be the lad who's highest on Undertaker vs Batista. I don't even like Batista much, either.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just rewatched all of them
1) hbk/taker 2 5*
2) hbk/taker 1 5*
3) hhh/taker 3 4 1/2
4) edge/taker 4 1/2
5) hhh/taker 2 4 1/2
6) batista/taker 4 1/4
7) punk/taker 3 3/4


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Last 7 Taker WM matches:

vs HBK 25
vs HHH 27
vs HBK 26
vs Edge 24
vs Punk 29
vs Batista 23
vs HHH 28

That Taker/HHH WM27 match has to be one of the most love/hate matches around, never seem to see anyone put it at a middle-ish rating. It's either shit or fantastic.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker WM matches:

1. WM 25 - ★★★★★
2. WM 28 - ★★★★½
3. WM 23 - ★★★★½
4. WM 26 - ★★★★½
5. WM 24 - ★★★★
6. WM 29 - ★★★★
7. WM 27 - ★★★¾


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Last 7 Taker WM matches:
> 
> vs HBK 25
> vs HHH 27
> ...


I think WM27 is great, not amazing or terrible. Although both Taker/HHH matches are overrated generally, but not sure which one I'd say is more so.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shouldn't be a surprise at this point, but once again, we have ANOTHER good Shield match to add to our lists. Mark Henry once again being the GOAT.

:lmao at this Ryback segment. Heidenreich vibes here!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

They should just call the best of Raw/Smackdown 2013 "The best of the Shield and Daniel Bryan." 



redskins25 said:


> *sorry at wrestlemania,


Def makes my top 10. Best 10 WWE title matches at Mania I'd go....

1. Flair v Savage WM8
2. Rock V Austin WM17
3. Punk V Jericho WM28
4. Cena V HBK WM23
5. Eddie G V Angle WM20
6. Hart V HBK WM 12
7. Angle V Brock WM19
8. HBK V Austin WM 14
9. Savage V Hogan WM5
10. Jericho V HHH WM18


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Watching hbk/austin mania you can tell Michaels is fucking up, he's stiff as hell and walking like hes got something up his ass


:vince3:jpl


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Taker WM matches since 22:

1. 25 vs. Michaels - *****
2. 26 vs. Michaels - *****
3. 29 vs. CM Punk - ****1/2
4. 28 vs. Triple H - ****1/2
5. 23 vs. Batista - ****1/4
6. 24 vs. Edge - ****1/4
7. 27 vs. Triple H - ***3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HOGAN VS. WARRIOR


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> HOGAN VS. WARRIOR


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Taker/Punk from this year is the best Taker Mania match outside of the HBK matches.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Choke2Death said:


> Taker WM matches:
> 
> 1. WM 25 - ★★★★★
> 2. WM 28 - ★★★★½
> ...


Stick the 26 match into second and I agree. The Punk & Trips 27 matches are massively overrated. Wouldn't have either hitting four stars, they were just surrounded by a shower of shite. Not even sure they'd hit the top 10 matches of their respective years (and yes, I'm aware we're still in July for 2013).


----------



## Hectick (Jul 30, 2013)

No, the Triple H matches featured the greatest storytelling and psychology ever. They made their matches on a foundation of facial expressions and mental transistions rather than actual working, wrestling or physical contact.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

We talk about Taker's streak matches way too much in here...

I swear at least once a week there's a page where everyone just ranks the last 10 of them.


----------



## Hectick (Jul 30, 2013)

Someone said Triple H is a better worker (in ring) than Brock Lesnar, which is just fucking LAUGHABLE.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> We talk about Taker's streak matches way too much in here...
> 
> I swear at least once a week there's a page where everyone just ranks the last 10 of them.


Streak matches, Orton sucks/is GOAT, HHH sucks/is GOAT, is Cena/Lesnar 5* or not, what is your MOTY list so far, what is your GOAT match ever...all discussed on a loop in this thread lol.

I guess that means Mr. Viper is up next.

rton2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

you're forgetting 'MOTY each year since 2003' and the Michaels/HHH series.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I missed Raw last night. I'm just chilling on the sofa at 1:00am with my Doritos and a Pepsi, and boom, the power goes out. My fucking moron of a neighbour managed to knock his electricity off all day long and didn't think to call the power distribution and maintenance guys until the night. So, they had to shut the street's power off and tear up this guys drive, absolutely ruining my evening! Raw didn't record and the power came back on after Raw was over -.-

Looks like I'm downloading it! Was it a good show?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm in the middle of watching it now. Probably worth a download just for the Shield tag. SHIELD. HENRY. :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> you're forgetting 'MOTY each year since 2003' and the Michaels/HHH series.


True lol. Let's see, Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread check list:

What is your MOTY every year since 2003?
Michaels/HHH: YOUR verdict!
Rank the streak matches after Mania 22 because that one was shit and nobody wants to remember it.
Randy Orton needs to go back to the Legend Killer or else he's shit.
Triple H isn't as good as he/WWE/people think he is.
Is Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena 5* despite the finish?
What is the best match in WWE history?
What does your MOTY list look like so far?

Repeat every 2 weeks. 

:vince3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12


*Part 13
THE TOP 20-6*

*(****1/2)
20 - The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, The Legion Of Doom, Ken Shamrock & Goldust, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede









(****3/4)
19 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2002









18 - Batista vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2005









17 - The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002









16 - Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels, No Mercy 2008









15 - Triple H vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Batista, New Year's Revolution 2005









14 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1992









13 - Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Backlash 2004








(Thanks C2D  )

12 - Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Booker T vs. Rob Van Dam, Survivor Series 2002









11 - Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004









10 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 22: Over The Edge









9 - Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out 2006









8 - Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, In Your House 10: Mind Games









(*****)
7 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, SummerSlam 1992









6 - John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money In The Bank 2011







*​



Spoiler: list so far



*(DUD)*
284 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
283 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
282 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
281 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
280 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
279 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
278 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
277 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
276 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
275 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
274 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
273 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
272 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
271 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
270 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
269 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
268 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
267 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
266 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
265 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
264 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
263 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
262 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
261 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
260 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
259 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
258 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
257 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
256 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
255 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
254 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
253 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
252 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
250 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
249 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
248 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
247 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
245 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
244 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
243 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
242 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
241 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 25
240 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
239 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
238 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
237 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
235 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
234 - Booker T vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2006
233 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
232 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
231 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
230 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
229 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
228 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
227 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
226 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
225 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
224 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
223 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
222 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
221 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
220 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
219 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
218 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
217 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
216 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
215 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
214 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
213 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
212 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
211 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
210 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
208 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
207 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, Unforgiven 2004 (Missed this one )
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
206 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
205 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
204 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
203 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
202 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
200 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
199 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
198 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
197 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
196 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
195 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, Judgment Day 2008
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
*(***1/2)*
145 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
144 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
143 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
142 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
141 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
140 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
139 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
138 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
137 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
136 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
135 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
134 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
133 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
132 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
131 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
130 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
129 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
128 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
127 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
126 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
125 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
124 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
123 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
122 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
*(***3/4)*
121 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987
120 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008
119 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
118 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007
117 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006
116 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011
115 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011
114 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013
113 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
112 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004
111 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001
110 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
109 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996
108 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
107 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000
106 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
105 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
104 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
103 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008
101 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2011
100 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Taboo Tuesday 2005
99 - Edge vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2006
98 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009
97 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
96 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
95 - Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996
94 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
93 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XV/15
*(****)*
92 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman, One Night Stand 2005
91 - John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler, TLC 2012
90 - John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
89 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
88 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008
87 - JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
86 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
85 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
84 - Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006
83 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
82 - Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, Vengeance 2003
81 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2001
80 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Brothers Of Destruction, Backlash 2001
79 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
78 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
77 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1991
76 - The British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels, One Night Only 1997
75 - John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
74 - Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Mercy 2005
73 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
72 - The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
71 - Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
70 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgment Day 2003
69 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
68 - Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw, Survivor Series 2005
67 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
66 - Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
65 - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
64 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania VI/6
*(****1/4)*
63 - Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
62 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997
61 - Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998
60 - Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
59 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
58 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
57 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
56 - Triple H vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2008
55 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
54 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2007
53 - Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
52 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2007
51 - Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, King Of The Ring 1993
50 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
49 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania XIX/19
48 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit, Fully Loaded 2000
47 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
46 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
45 - Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
44 - Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Umaga, No Way Out 2008
43 - Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania V/5
42 - John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
41 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23
40 - Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004
39 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
*(****1/2)*
38 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2001
37 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
36 - John Cena vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2005
35 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005
34 - Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000
33 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002
32 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Season's Beatings
31 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton, Backlash 2007
30 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002
29 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
28 - Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania XXIV/24
27 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004
26 - Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
25 - Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XIV/14
24 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 14: Final Four
23 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000
22 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
21 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997
20 - The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, The Legion Of Doom, Ken Shamrock & Goldust, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
*(****3/4)*
19 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2002
18 - Batista vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2005
17 - The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002
16 - Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels, No Mercy 2008
15 - Triple H vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Batista, New Year's Revolution 2005
14 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1992
13 - Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Backlash 2004
12 - Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Booker T vs. Rob Van Dam, Survivor Series 2002
11 - Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004
10 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 22: Over The Edge
9 - Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out 2006
8 - Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, In Your House 10: Mind Games
*(*****)*
7 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, SummerSlam 1992
6 - John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money In The Bank 2011


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I think you skipped a part, ATF. The last part goes to 41 but this starts at 20.

EDIT: My bad, checked the spoiler and you have posted that one. (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You forgot the weekly Angle discussion .

It's true though. Nobody EVER shuts the fuck up about any of those things (especially the fucking streak). We need something fresh and original that I can throw my opinion at ASAP.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Pretty much agree with everything there ATF, if I'm allowed I'm guessing the top 5 must be:



Spoiler



HBK/Taker BB 97
HBK/Taker WM26
HHH/Benoit/HBK WM20
Austin/Rock WM17
Brock/Cena ER 12

Not sure of the order though, obviously



Unless I'm having a brainfart and missed those in the list and the spoiler of course.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ABH:



Spoiler: list



not gonna give you the order, but you're spot-on.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> You forgot the weekly Angle discussion .
> 
> It's true though. Nobody EVER shuts the fuck up about any of those things (especially the fucking streak). We need something fresh and original that I can throw my opinion at ASAP.


IF PAUL HEYMAN COULD WRESTLE WOULD HE BE THE GOAT? GO!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck yes he would. Y THERE IS NO HEYMAN SMILEY?

Btw, tonight, the Grand Top 5 is revealed. 8*D


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I really, really hope Brock vs. Cena isn't your number one :side: Good match, but I definitely don't think it's *****, let alone deserving of the #1 spot  Will be interesting to see how you order the top 5 though, mate!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Diesel V Mabel is obviously #1.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

No, it's obviously HHH/Steiner from Royal Rumble 03. That's another topic that's brought up a lot in here - HHH's 'reign of terror'.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> Fuck yes he would. *Y THERE IS NO HEYMAN SMILEY*?
> 
> Btw, tonight, the Grand Top 5 is revealed. 8*D


:heyman6:heyman5:heyman4:heyman3:heyman:heyman2

Look forward to your top five, man. Props for going through all these matches.



> No, it's obviously HHH/Steiner from Royal Rumble 03. That's another topic that's brought up a lot in here - HHH's 'reign of terror'.


Leave the GOAT alone.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Blasphemy to y'all. It's OBVIOUSLY:



Spoiler: #1



Hogan/Warrior II. Why since it's not even WWE? Because I say so. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Putting a WCW match as your #1 WWE match would make about as much sense as the ending to half of WCW's main event matches anyway . First blood matches ending in pinfall while one guy bleeds. Stretcher match ending in a pinfall. Ladder match ending when someone who isn't in the match appears and grabs the belt. Ahh WCW how I miss you.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ah c'mon Cal. It's HOGAN/WARRIOR II ZOMGHSPLZ. The damn GOAT! DUBYA SEE DUBYA!!! :taker


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hogan V Warrior II: Electric Boogaloo


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If you'd ask me between HOGAN/WARRIOR II ZOMGHSPLZ and sex with Christy Hemme, I'd take HOGAN/WARRIOR II. :datass

Ok, that's where we'll draw the line.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I need to watch the older matches in ATF's list but everything else is great although I would definitely place Taker/Angle above them all, including MITB.



Callamus said:


> Putting a WCW match as your #1 WWE match would make about as much sense as the ending to half of WCW's main event matches anyway . First blood matches ending in pinfall while one guy bleeds. Stretcher match ending in a pinfall. Ladder match ending when someone who isn't in the match appears and grabs the belt. Ahh WCW how I miss you.


It always cracks me up to hear about WCW's retarded booking, specially towards the end. I gotta see some of these years including 2000 just so I can laugh at some of the over-the-top shit they came up with.

Vintage Russo. :russo


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Anyone down for some tag team discussion? We haven't gone through that in a while; Rockers or Hart Foundation!? The Dudleys or the Hardyz!? Who you guys got for GOAT teams?


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I love The Hardy Boyz' work in 1999-2001. They were always exciting and so over with the crowd. Their stuff with E&C and The Dudleyz is incredible imo. But then Edge and Christian and The Dudleyz were fantastic in their own rights.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The GOAT Tag? Imo either Road Warriors or Hart Foundation.

What about stables? the Horsemen or the nWo? DX maybe?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Midnight Express :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best Russo move for me is when he came in with Bischoff and vacated every title prior to the development of The Millionaire's Club vs New Blood. Not only did it just further decrease the prestige in the titles but because they believed the established veterans should be the babyfaces in the angle (because WCW crowds were bound to root against the plucky youngsters), numerous wrestlers inexplicably turned face/heel for the purposes of the angle. Someone like Lex Luger who'd actually found a good role as this outrageous cowardly heel and was doing fine just became a face overnight, simply because of his age. It was just so counterproductive and ass-backwards.

Sid losing a Falls Count Anywhere match by countout is still my favourite 'what in the shit?' moment in WCW. A close second would be Sting pinning Luger after backdropping him into a swimming pool.


As for tag teams: WWF/E - The Rockers by a country mile. Of the modern era - MNM.

Historically speaking its hard to look past The Rock N' Roll Express or The Midnight Express. Arguably the greatest babyface and heel tag teams in existence and the benchmark of tag team wrestling throughout the 80s. Arn & Tully are a great heel duo, The Moondogs were excellent as pure sleazy brawlers, The Fantastics were exceptional and have arguably the best tag team match in US history vs The Midnight Express. Special mention to The Fabulous Ones and if we go outside of America, then Kawada/Taue in All Japan.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It's funny because that honestly is what we talk about

Missing entries

HHH/lesnar 
Punk/Brock
Cena/Bryan 

And we talked about the shield alot when they were important


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Malenko losing to Kidman simply by going out of the ring was hilariously bad. Even more so considering those were the ACTUAL RULES OF THE MATCH. EVEN MORE hilarious was the fact that it almost seemed like Malenko forgot and just instinctively left the ring like he would a normal match. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all forget about the real best WTF moment in WCW - Judy Bagwell on a pole.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Sid losing a Falls Count Anywhere match by countout is still my favourite 'what in the shit?' moment in WCW. A close second would be Sting pinning Luger after backdropping him into a swimming pool.


:lmao

Sometimes I think that WWE does retarded things nowadays that make no sense, but this is something else on the level of nonsensical.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What about the Nash/Sid Powerbomb match? That was LOL worthy, I think it was supposed to end whenever one of them hit the move, yet Nash tried to pin Sid and the ref even counted. fpalm


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best WCW timeline for pure intentional comedy purposes. May 15-June 3

Flair wins the title on Nitro for the 15th time.

Week after Flair vacates the title due to an aneurysm, Jarrett is rewarded the belt.

On Thunder the next night, Nash beats Jarrett & Steiner to become the new champion.

6 days later, Nash vacates the title and rewards it to Flair who he deems the rightful champion.

Jarrett promptly wins the belt back from Flair in the same night.

Title changed hands 5 times in 14 days. Jarrett would also lose the belt in 10 days to Hogan at Bash of the Beach '00.

BUT THE REAL KICKER? Here's the title changes prior to this debacle:

Jarrett wins belt April 16th after all titles vacated on April 10th.

DDP wins title April 24th. Loses it April 25th in a tag match w/ Arquette vs Jarrett w/ Bischoff.

Arquette drops the title to Jarrett May 7th. Jarrett has a week long reign before dropping to Flair May 15th.

9 title changes in...43 days. ARF :~


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

We talk about WCW, but what about this shit? Michael Cole's the voice of reason and Jerry Lawler's trying to justify it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Idiocy is idiocy whatever the promotion. No doubt WWF/E has had their fair share of utterly embarassing angles and moments, but that's not really a valid defence when it comes to some of WCW's most laughably terrible moments.

My biggest worry nowadays is that there are some people who would still rather have a product like WCW 2000 instead of current WWE, with multiple title changes a week, entire rosters being switched in their alignment, Flair saying on WCW TV that if David improved and grew up he'd get him a job in WWF through contacts, the fucking blood from the ceiling as match finishes, the entire Russo/Flair feud complete with Russo kidnapping Flair's teenage son, Bagwell vs The Writers, a cruserweight title feud featuring Oklahoma vs a woman and Goldberg turning heel.

YIKES.

*This is without mentioning the utterly horrid week to week wrestling with matches lucky to go 5 minutes without interference and PPVS more concerned with building to TV than putting on compelling matches. DDP, Funk and to a lesser degree Jarrett were about the only redeemable aspects of the product in terms of the wrestling that year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:lmao Dat Khali.

For shits and giggles, top 10 HIAC's? :HHH :taker :kane


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not defending WCW at all. That Khali moment is one I'll never forget though.

Because there aren't as many HIAC matches, I couldn't do a top 10, but there are great ones, then really good ones, then good ones.

HBK/Taker
HHH/Taker
Brock/Taker
HHH/Batista
Orton/Taker

HHH/Cactus
Edge/Taker

Armageddon Six Man
HHH/Jericho (underrated)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *This is without mentioning the utterly horrid week to week wrestling with matches lucky to go 5 minutes without interference and PPVS more concerned with building to TV than putting on compelling matches. DDP, Funk and to a lesser degree Jarrett were about the only redeemable aspects of the product in terms of the wrestling that year.


THIS for me. Like i'm really enjoying a match, then surprise surprise, a run in occurs, fuck i get annoyed, i cant only blame the NWO either. Same with alot of PPV matches, like for example Sting/Goldberg in 1999 (could have been Slamboree or Havoc)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *My biggest worry nowadays is that there are some people who would still rather have a product like WCW 2000 instead of current WWE*, with multiple title changes a week, entire rosters being switched in their alignment, Flair saying on WCW TV that if David improved and grew up he'd get him a job in WWF through contacts, the fucking blood from the ceiling as match finishes, the entire Russo/Flair feud complete with Russo kidnapping Flair's teenage son, Bagwell vs The Writers, a cruserweight title feud featuring Oklahoma vs a woman and Goldberg turning heel.


I would've said that last year after Raw 1000 because the product was _really_ shit. It was uneventful and boring. At least the WCW fuckery is entertaining in an "Is this even real?" kind of way.

But not now when they have finally started to use 3 hours in a more proper way and actually improved the product since 2013 started.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Is there a video somewhere where a cement falls insdie a cage match? I believe this was WCW 2000. Saw it in the 'funny pictures' thread once and someone said it actually happened


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I would've said that last year after Raw 1000 because the product was _really_ shit. It was uneventful and boring. At least the WCW fuckery is entertaining in an "Is this even real?" kind of way.
> 
> But not now when they have finally started to use 3 hours in a more proper way and actually improved the product since 2013 started.


No way was the product last year as bad as WCW 2000. Yes WCW gives you a good laugh at how bad it is, but that gets tiresome very quickly and no one should be wishing WWE was ever like that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I'm not defending WCW at all. That Khali moment is one I'll never forget though.
> 
> Because there aren't as many HIAC matches, I couldn't do a top 10, but there are great ones, then really good ones, then good ones.
> 
> ...


I agree with all of that but how do you leave mankind vs taker hiac out of the good list? Some even would say its great. I think it's the most shocking and memorable match of all time. Don't get me wrong ill take hbk vs taker or even Brock vs taker over it, but that mankind match deserves a spot in the top 10 at the very least


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> I would've said that last year after Raw 1000 because the product was _really_ shit. It was uneventful and boring. At least the WCW fuckery is entertaining in an "Is this even real?" kind of way.
> 
> But not now when they have finally started to use 3 hours in a more proper way and actually improved the product since 2013 started.


Eh I'm not saying WWE is perfect, but for me the overall product is solid and just in need of some more creative storylines throughout the card and working to create a more intriguing undercard/midcard as opposed to relying on a fairly eventful uppercard/main event consistently.

The matches and ring product is probably the strongest era of WWE (2009-now) for many years, taking into account 2009 ECW and Smackdown (the summer), Superstars 2009-May 2011, Main Event & Raw this year. The quality of workers is ridiculously high (Bryan, Cesaro, Punk, Henry, Cena, Mysterio, Christian, Mcintyre, Shield, Bourne, Regal, Sheamus etc), there's variety in what many excel at (Henry as a character worker, great face workers, intriguing heel characters in Heyman, Wyatt & Shield) and they've even got someone in Lesnar who's a genuine difference maker when used effectively.

The underlying problem is clearly struggling to develop the personalities of the roster to create a diverse range of stars who will get a consistent reaction (there are just too many people who will not generate interest when on TV: Barrett, Swagger, 3MB, Ryder etc because of the stop-start pushing and endless rematches), but at least its a product with tremendous upside and potential, just struggling to properly utilise said potential.

The worst of WCW was truly horrendous. The quality of wrestling was arguably worse than WWF, titles were swapped around without thought, the influx of worked shoot angles in every part of the product, an out of control dressing room, power struggles, trying to replicate more successful gimmicks in WWF, interferences galore, no long term direction, older stars being continually pushed at the expense of youngsters, week to week heel/face turns with no logic etc.

No doubt WWE can sometimes be tepid and crying out for something to galvanise the product, but I'll take a product that generally offers many redeemable aspects even if it struggles to move past solid overall, over a dire company which only offers embarassing worked shoots, nonsensical angles, everyone shoved onto TV with a storyline taking time and care away from making certain feuds more prominent and low quality matches any day of the week.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

1.) HBK vs. Taker.
2.) Mankind vs. Taker.
3.) HHH vs. Taker.
4.) HHH vs. Cactus Jack.
5.) Edge vs. Taker.

All just in my opinion. I do think a lot of people rate Brock vs. Taker too highly, and this is coming from the biggest Brock mark ever.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 Cell matches:

(****3/4)
1) Taker/HBK
2) Taker/Brock
(****1/2)
3) Batista/HHH
4) Taker/Edge
(****)
5) Taker/Orton
6) Taker/Batista
7) Taker/HHH
8) Taker/Foley
9) Foley/HHH
(***3/4)
10) Taker/Austin/Rock/HHH/Angle/Rikishi

Taker rules the Cell match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is Bryan/Kane worth watching? Bryan hasn't had a bad match in forever so I'm guessing it is.

I didn't make it past the opening promo.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Kane I thought was a good match from what I saw, but I was a bit distracted while watching (not out of boredom, but because of my four-year old nephew who loves throwing his WWE action figures around while watching the show).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> I agree with all of that but how do you leave mankind vs taker hiac out of the good list? Some even would say its great. I think it's the most shocking and memorable match of all time. Don't get me wrong ill take hbk vs taker or even Brock vs taker over it, but that mankind match deserves a spot in the top 10 at the very least


Oops, I knew I'd forget something important. I need to go back and watch that match and the build to it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Oops, I knew I'd forget something important. I need to go back and watch that match and the build to it.


I will say the build to foley vs taker hiac was not memorable at all, it was almost like a thrown together at the last minute sort of deal. That's why foley did so many insane bumps because he was really really worried the match would suck and fans would be disinterested in a 6th ppv match between the two. Just watch the match all the way through. It is incredibly powerful watching a human being take punishment like that and continue to get up. I still get goosebumps when foley gets up off the stretcher after the first bump off the cage and starts to climb back up again without his mask on. It's by no means a technical masterpiece like bad blood was, but it might be even more dramatic and powerful.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Just bought a 2tb hard drive off of Amazon so I can download ALL THE PAY-PER-VIEWS! :vince

I'll probably just get everything WWE has put out (PPVs, Raw, Smackdown, Tough Enough etc.) from 1996 to 2005 seeing as those are the only years I actually care to obtain at the minute. I've already got pretty much all of the Attitude Era anyway but no doubt I've missed a couple things.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF's WWE PPV Main Event Rankings*

If you wanna check out the rest of the list, THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE...

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
Part 12
Part 13


*Part 14
THE TOP 5*

*(*****)
5 - John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2012*








_While it's certainly a big argument wheater or not is this match worthy of the full five, I think it's more worthy of an argument to ask why don't many, many people outside of this forum appreciate this match as it is. Out there, people would barely put this one into their Top 10 of 2012, complaining about how boring and one-sided it was. Or how unimaginative the finish was. BUT, who gives a fuck. Regardless of the ending, you had a visual you'd thought you'd never ever see in the world we live in - Cena getting absolutely, unmistankenly MURDERED in the ring. Not the typical beaten down - straight up MURDERED. Bloodied, injured. That's what Cena was in this match. BORK LAZER played the role of big bully so Goddamn well that you got a Chicago crowd, yes a Chicago crowd, sympathize and cheer for good ol' You Can't See Me boy. Which is even more impressive when you consider that same crowd wanted his head in CM Punk's personal silver platter the year before. It was creative, brutal, merciless and downright eerie to watch. And even though the ending might've destroyed Lesnar's running momentum, remember that it took Cena a mid-air steel chain to the head, and an AA on the steps. Major props to both for such a great contest._

*4 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WrestleMania XX/20*








_According to the "real world", Christopher Michael Benoit is a murderer who killed his wife, 8-year old son and then himself in a June 2007 weekend, and someone who should not be respected at all and burn in Hell. That is true. Nobody is denying the fact that what Benoit did on that fatidic weekend is completely unforgivable. But here's the knocker: according to Vince McMahon's world, Chris Benoit never existed. Which is wrong. He did exist. He did became a WCW World Champion, Intercontinental Champion, US Champion, 2004 Royal Rumble winner, and World Heavyweight Champion at the Main Event of WrestleMania 20, in arguably the greatest Triple Threat match of all time against Triple H and Shawn Michaels. The 3-way, which went around 40 minutes long, just had another take on the concept of intensity, chemistry and downright heartracing. It was bloody, it was hard-hitting, it was pretty much the perfect package. And like I said, Benoit did the most wrong thing a human being could've possibly done. But, for those who call themselves "wrestling marks", does that mean we shouldn't appreciate his incredible in-ring work and legacy? Oh, did I mention that the post-match celebration with Eddie is, watching it today, downright emotional and disturbing at the same time?_

*3 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania X-Seven/17*








_WrestleMania 17 is, in the words of many people, myself included, the greatest PPV in WWF/E history. It was pretty much the be all, end all of the always remembered Attitude Era. It featured pretty much every big star made in that era somewhere on the card doing something. And what better way to close out the Attitude Era for good than with a giant clash between the two biggest personalities developed at the time. A rematch from a very good but far inferior also Main Event match from the Godawful WrestleMania 15, Rock/Austin II brought great storytelling with huge star power and mixed it perfectly with drama, intensity, fast-pace and gore. Perhaps one of the bloodiest matches in WrestleMania history, those two legends brought pretty much every single thing they had and, at the end of the day, both looked pretty much unstoppable that night. After chairs, bells, Superplexes, finisher theft, everything, it would be Vince McMahon the deciding end. The finish itself, while wasn't that good for obvious reasons, still sort-of worked in shocking the world with the heel turn and subsequent alliance with Vince McMahon of Austin. One of the few "larger than life" WrestleMania rematches that actually lived up to its hype (*cough*Rock/Cena II*cough)._

*2 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XXVI/26*








_At WrestleMania 25, these two had what many people regarded the greatest match in WWE history. Not me, but it certainly was something from another world. However, the idea of a rematch the next year for me... I was rather apathetic to it, especially considering how I though they'd never beat the first one. I'd much rather see Shawn, in his possible last match wrestle Haitch Haitch Haitch, while having Taker face someone else. Which was to happen, had Umaga not tragically passed away. Not that I can blame him for such a thing though. And at the end of the day, considering the insane chemistry these two Texans had, there really was no better way for Shawn to go out. And while they didn't beat the 25 match in my opinion, they damn sure came close. The 25 match featured more drama and more "Shawn actually has a chance", and it was overall more of a spectacle. This featured better wrestling and storytelling at that. Taker's selling of the knee was brilliant, as were both men just hitting every major trick they could. And the ending was just the perfect way for Shawn Michaels to retire - down but always defiant and full of himself. But, even though this was awesome, there's one that beats it..._

*1 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 18: Badd Blood*








_Incredible. Shawn and Taker's classic is overtaken by THEIR OWN Hell In A Cell. There's no denying that the Taker/Shawn pairing is a serious contender for GOAT feud solely for the matches - which is quite the remarkable feat. Really, sometimes the best plan is the one that's right down below your nose and has been the whole time. Nothing more simple to understand than the story of a sympathetic babyface (Shawn) encaged and with nowhere to hide from a pissed off, monstrous heel (Taker). And that story was told just incredibly well here. It may have been close to a squash, as most of the match was just Taker beating on HBK. But that is the context of the story after all. The 1st ever Hell In A Cell, it still has to be beat, and rightfully so. Shawn falling off the Cell isn't truly impressive today since we live in the post-Mick Foley days, but I'll be damned if it wasn't mind-blowing back then. Plus, arguably the single greatest debut ever made by the Big Red Machine, who's still going strong today. In my humble opinion there's only one match that beats this one in WWE history and that's Austin vs. Hart from WrestleMania 13. The Badd Blood 1997 Hell In A Cell rightfully, rightfully takes its spot as, in my words, the greatest WWE PPV Main Event ever._


....


*LOL, TROLLED! HERE'S THE REAL #1:*

*1 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Warrior, WCW Halloween Havoc 1998*








_OH MY FUCKING GOODNESS THIS MATCH IS INCREDIBLE. Their match at WrestleMania 6 was good but this one completely shits on it. COMPLETELY. Dude, I'm like totally marking out right now! Yeah, this isn't even WWE BUT I DON'T GIVE A FUCK! THIS MATCH IS PURE SEX!_



*Of course you didn't fall for that. Or did you?*​



Spoiler: full list



*(DUD)*
284 - Yokozuna vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania IX/9
283 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, SummerSlam 2011
282 - Batista vs. JBL, The Great American Bash 2005
281 - John Cena vs. John Laurinatis, Over The Limit 2012
280 - Diesel vs. Mabel, SummerSlam 1995
279 - John Cena vs. R-Truth, Capitol Punishment 2011
278 - John Cena vs. The Miz, Over The Limit 2011
277 - Booker T vs. Batista, Survivor Series 2006
276 - Roddy Piper vs. Jerry Lawler, King Of The Ring 1994
275 - CM Punk vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 2013
*(1/4*)*
274 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 1
273 - Hulk Hogan vs. Sycho Sid, WrestleMania VIII/8
272 - Diesel & Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Sycho Sid & Tatanka, King Of The Ring 1995
271 - The Miz vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVII/27
270 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, King Of The Ring 2002
269 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
268 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Sgt. Slaughter, Colonel Mustafa & General Adnan, SummerSlam 1991
267 - Sycho Sid vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 13
266 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(1/2*)*
265 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, Extreme Rules 2009
264 - The Undertaker vs. The Dudley Boyz, The Great American Bash 2004
263 - Diesel vs. Sycho Sid, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
262 - Triple H & The McMahons vs. The Rock & The Brothers Of Destruction, King Of The Ring 2000
261 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Bragging Rights 2010
260 - The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
259 - The Undertaker vs. Faarooq, King Of The Ring 1997
258 - Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Lawrence Taylor, WrestleMania XI/11
*(3/4*)*
257 - Goldberg vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2003
256 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2002
255 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, SummerSlam 1989
254 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane, In Your House 24: Breakdown
253 - Kurt Angle vs. Mark Henry, Royal Rumble 2006
252 - John Cena vs. Edge, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(*)*
251 - Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
250 - Kane vs. The Undertaker, Hell In A Cell 2010
249 - Triple H vs. Hulk Hogan, Backlash 2002
248 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Triple H, No Mercy UK 1999
247 - The Legion Of Doom & The Big Boss Man vs. The Natural Disasters & IRS, Survivor Series 1991
*(*1/4)*
245 - Triple H vs. Goldberg, Unforgiven 2003
244 - John Cena vs. Ryback, Payback 2013
243 - Steve Austin & The Undertaker vs. Mankind & Kane, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
*(*1/2)*
242 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXIX/29
241 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, WrestleMania 25
240 - Hulk Hogan & The Ultimate Warrior vs. Team Heels, Survivor Series 1990
239 - John Cena & Batista vs. Booker T & Finlay, Armageddon 2006
*(*3/4)*
238 - Bret Hart vs. Diesel, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
237 - The Undertaker vs. The Underfaker, SummerSlam 1994
*(**)*
235 - The Rock & John Cena vs. The Awesome Truth, Survivor Series 2011
234 - Booker T vs. John Cena vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2006
233 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Armageddon 2002
232 - D-Generation X vs. The Spirit Squad, Vengeance 2006
231 - Chris Jericho vs. Triple H, WrestleMania X-8/18
230 - Shawn Michaels vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
229 - Yokozuna vs. Lex Luger, SummerSlam 1993
228 - John Cena vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2012
227 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, Rebellion 2001
226 - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant, WrestleMania III/3
225 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Undertaker, Insurrextion 2001
224 - The Big Show vs. CM Punk vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Bobby Lashley vs. Test vs. Hardcore Holly, December To Dismember 2006
*(**1/4)*
223 - Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Survivor Series 2010
222 - The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
221 - Diesel vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 4: Great White North
220 - John Cena vs. Kane, Elimination Chamber 2012
219 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker, Breaking Point 2009
218 - Diesel & Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna & The British Bulldog, In Your House 3: Triple Header
217 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, One Night Stand 2007
216 - Randy Savage vs. The Junkyard Dog, The Wrestling Classic 1988
215 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. The Big Show, Survivor Series 1999
214 - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna, Survivor Series 1994
213 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2003
*(**1/2)*
212 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, The Bash 2009
211 - Sycho Sid vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1997
210 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1995
209 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1999
208 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Over The Edge 1999
207 - Randy Orton vs. Triple H, Unforgiven 2004 (Missed this one )
206 - Yokozuna vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania X/10
205 - The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry, Unforgiven 2007
*(**3/4)*
206 - CM Punk vs. Ryback, Hell In A Cell 2012
205 - The Rock vs. Goldberg, Backlash 2003
204 - Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
203 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
202 - Sheamus vs. John Cena, Money In The Bank 2010
200 - Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff, WrestleMania 1
199 - Chris Jericho vs. Steve Austin, No Way Out 2002
*(***)*
198 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
197 - John Cena vs. The Great Khali, Judgment Day 2007
196 - Goldberg vs. Triple H vs. Kane, Armageddon 2003
195 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, Judgment Day 2008
194 - The Rock vs. CM Punk, Elimination Chamber 2013
193 - The Undertaker vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2002
192 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Bad Blood 2003
191 - John Cena vs. Wade Barrett, TLC 2010
190 - Chris Jericho vs. Batista, Cyber Sunday 2008
189 - The Ultimate Warriors vs. The Heenan Family, Survivor Series 1989
188 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista vs. JBL vs. Rey Mysterio, Unforgiven 2008
187 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
186 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2000
185 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2000
184 - John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2005
183 - John Cena vs. Mick Foley vs. Randy Orton vs. Booker T vs. Bobby Lashley, Vengeance 2007
182 - Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy, WrestleMania 2
181 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XII/2
180 - Triple H vs. Batista, WrestleMania 21
179 - Steve Austin vs. Kane, King Of The Ring 1998
178 - The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
177 - Team Mega Powers vs. Team Twin Towers, Survivor Series 1988
176 - Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind, SummerSlam 1999
175 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Kevin Nash, SummerSlam 2003
174 - John Cena vs. Umaga, New Year's Revolution 2007
173 - Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania VII/7
172 - The McMahons vs. Steve Austin, King Of The Ring 1999
171 - Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 2005
*(***1/4)*
170 - Triple H vs. The Rock vs. Mick Foley vs. The Big Show, WrestleMania 2000/16
169 - Alberto Del Rio vs. John Cena, Vengeance 2011
168 - CM Punk vs. John Cena vs. Ryback, Survivor Series 2012
167 - JeriShow vs. D-Generation X, TLC 2009
166 - John Cena vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The Miz, Money In The Bank 2012
165 - John Cena vs. Batista, Over The Limit 2010
164 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
163 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho, Vengeance 2001
162 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
161 - Sycho Sid vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 12: It's Time
160 - Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Bad Blood 2004
159 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2000
158 - The Rock vs. John Cena, WrestleMania XXVIII/28
157 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Rikishi, Rebellion 2000
156 - The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
155 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1994
154 - Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1996
153 - Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
152 - D-Generation X vs. The Legacy, Hell In A Cell 2009
151 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
150 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, SummerSlam 1998
149 - Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania IV/4
148 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2003
147 - The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
146 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Bragging Rights 2009
(***1/2)
145 - Edge vs. Jeff Hardy, Judgment Day 2009
144 - Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
143 - Booker T vs. The Rock, SummerSlam 2001
142 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
141 - Sheamus vs. John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Wade Barrett, Night Of Champions 2010
140 - Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho vs. Chris Benoit, King Of The Ring 2001
139 - Rey Mysterio vs. Booker T, The Great American Bash 2006
138 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
137 - The All-Americans vs. The Foreign Fanatics, Survivor Series 1993
136 - Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs. Edge, Rebellion 2002
135 - JBL vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2004
134 - Booker T vs. Batista vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley, No Mercy 2006
133 - Batista vs. Triple H, Backlash 2005
132 - Vince McMahon vs. Steve Austin, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
131 - The Rock vs. The Undertaker vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit, Unforgiven 2000
130 - Triple H vs. Edge, The Great American Bash 2008
129 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Rebellion 1999
128 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
127 - Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Owen Hart & Chainsaw Charlie vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
126 - The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
125 - Triple H vs. Steve Austin, No Mercy 1999
124 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle vs. Rob Van Dam, No Mercy 2001
123 - JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
122 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
*(***3/4)*
121 - Team Hogan vs. Team Andre, Survivor Series 1987
120 - Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Triple H vs. JBL, Backlash 2008
119 - 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
118 - Batista vs. The Undertaker vs. Edge, Armageddon 2007
117 - Rey Mysterio vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2006
116 - The Miz vs. John Cena vs. John Morrison, Extreme Rules 2011
115 - Triple H vs. CM Punk, Night Of Champions 2011
114 - CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2013
113 - John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
112 - Chris Benoit vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2004
111 - Steve Austin, The Undertaker, Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle & Kane vs. Booker T, Rob Van Dam, The Dudley Boyz & Rhyno, InVasion 2001
110 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
109 - Shawn Michaels vs. The British Bulldog, King Of The Ring 1996
108 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
107 - The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2000
106 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
105 - The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
104 - John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
103 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
102 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2008
101 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2011
100 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle, Taboo Tuesday 2005
99 - Edge vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2006
98 - Jeff Hardy vs. CM Punk, SummerSlam 2009
97 - John Cena vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 22
96 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
95 - Shawn Michaels vs. Sycho Sid, Survivor Series 1996
94 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
93 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XV/15
*(****)*
92 - The Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer & The Sandman, One Night Stand 2005
91 - John Cena vs. Dolph Ziggler, TLC 2012
90 - John Cena vs. Edge, Backlash 2009
89 - John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
88 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, One Night Stand 2008
87 - JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
86 - Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
85 - John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
84 - Edge vs. John Cena, Unforgiven 2006
83 - Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
82 - Brock Lesnar vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show, Vengeance 2003
81 - Kurt Angle vs. The Rock, No Way Out 2001
80 - The Two Man Powertrip vs. The Brothers Of Destruction, Backlash 2001
79 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
78 - The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
77 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1991
76 - The British Bulldog vs. Shawn Michaels, One Night Only 1997
75 - John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
74 - Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Mercy 2005
73 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
72 - The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
71 - Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
70 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgment Day 2003
69 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
68 - Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw, Survivor Series 2005
67 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
66 - Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
65 - John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
64 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania VI/6
*(****1/4)*
63 - Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
62 - Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1997
61 - Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker, Royal Rumble 1998
60 - Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
59 - CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
58 - Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
57 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
56 - Triple H vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2008
55 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
54 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2007
53 - Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
52 - Batista vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2007
51 - Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, King Of The Ring 1993
50 - Kurt Angle vs. Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
49 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, WrestleMania XIX/19
48 - The Rock vs. Chris Benoit, Fully Loaded 2000
47 - Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
46 - Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
45 - Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
44 - Jeff Hardy vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. JBL vs. Umaga, No Way Out 2008
43 - Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania V/5
42 - John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
41 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 23
40 - Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004
39 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
*(****1/2)*
38 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2001
37 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
36 - John Cena vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2005
35 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005
34 - Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000
33 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002
32 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Season's Beatings
31 - John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Edge vs. Randy Orton, Backlash 2007
30 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002
29 - Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
28 - Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania XXIV/24
27 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004
26 - Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
25 - Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania XIV/14
24 - Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 14: Final Four
23 - The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000
22 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
21 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997
20 - The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, The Legion Of Doom, Ken Shamrock & Goldust, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
*(****3/4)*
19 - Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2002
18 - Batista vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2005
17 - The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002
16 - Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels, No Mercy 2008
15 - Triple H vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Batista, New Year's Revolution 2005
14 - 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1992
13 - Chris Benoit vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Backlash 2004
12 - Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Booker T vs. Rob Van Dam, Survivor Series 2002
11 - Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004
10 - Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 22: Over The Edge
9 - Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out 2006
8 - Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, In Your House 10: Mind Games
*(*****)*
7 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, SummerSlam 1992
6 - John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money In The Bank 2011
5 - John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2012
4 - Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WrestleMania XX/20
3 - The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania X-Seven/17
2 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania XXVI/26
1 - Hulk Hogan vs. The Warrior, WCW Halloween Havoc 1998 The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 26: Badd Blood


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Great list ATF, did you watch all these in the last couple of weeks or just from memory ? Only probelm I have is 7), it may be the most boring CLASSIC and one of those CLASSICS you just cannot get into for me, only other this is I'd have #4-7 ahead of #3

Has only seen rey/edge rumble 08 ? is it worth a watch ?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Great work ATF. I would move your #4 to #1 while your #5 wouldn't even be in my top 5 of 2012.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Great list ATF, did you watch all these in the last couple of weeks or just from memory ? Only probelm I have is 7), it may be the most boring CLASSIC and one of those CLASSICS you just cannot get into for me, only other this is I'd have #4-7 ahead of #3
> 
> Has only seen rey/edge rumble 08 ? is it worth a watch ?


Haven't seen that match in a while, but only remember La Familia getting involved a ton. I also remember the finish, which I won't spoil. 

Decided to take on a little Summerslam project. I've chosen one match to watch from every Summerslam. I stayed away from some of the obvious ones, and some are obvious classics which I have never seen. 25 matches, we'll how long it takes. (At least a couple involved Triple H, so I can tie in my GAME project.)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WM 20 > WM 26 but great list overall.

The best part of the list was easily this, though. :lol


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Great stuff ATF, thoroughly enjoyed reading along the whole list. Glad you got the '#1 troll' in there, that seems to be becoming a staple of these lists. :lol

I pretty much agree with that top 5, though I'd personally have Austin/Rock and the WM20 triple threat above HBK/Taker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hogan/Warrior I was always my favorite as a kid, just loved them going at it.....FOR TWO FUCKING TITLES. :mark:

But never seen the rematch, should i leave the memories intact and try not to smear the legendary status i hold the original in?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent list, ATF. These long lists (C2D's Orton list) are always good to have as a way to find classics that we may have missed out on. #4 is my second favorite match in company history and would be my #1, but I really like your perspective anyways. Love that their Backlash match got the respect it deserved.

I faintly remember a match in WCW in 1999 where the fans were chanting "Rocky!" towards Booker T. Believe it was Mayhem 1999. I also remember a Kidman/Torrie Wilson angle where Kidman shows people videos of a fat teenage Torrie Wilson only to get cheered after pushing Torrie and wrestling in a Viagra on a Pole match.

Not a big fan of Rey/Edge RR 08. All I remember liking about it was how the crowd cheered for Edge and booed Mysterio.

Any Rock N Roll/Midnight Express enthusiasts here? I need some recommendations (WOOLCOCK if you're still here).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nice list ATF and great effort put fourth. I may disagree with quite a few things (most things I've disagreed with before though many times, so I'm not gonna poke at it), but respect for all effort in actually watching the matches and putting them in order like this.

Edge/Mysterio from the Rumble is a great match. ***1/2.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Any Rock N Roll/Midnight Express enthusiasts here? I need some recommendations (WOOLCOCK if you're still here).


Rock N' Roll Express & Jim Duggan vs Midnight Express & Ernie Ladd, Mid South (6/8/84)
The Fantastics vs Midnight Express, World Class (12/25/84)
The Fantastics vs Midnight Express, World Class (1/11/85)
Jerry Lawler & Bill Dundee vs Midnight Express, AWA (10/30/87)
The Fantastics vs The Midnight Express, NWA (4/26/88)
Rock N' Roll Express vs Midnight Express, Wrestlewar (2/25/90)
Southern Boys vs Midnight Express, Great American Bash (7/7/90)

Too many Rock N' Roll Express/Midnight Express matches in their series to name specific dates. I have a 32 disc Midnight Express comp mind you so confident I might unearth some gems from their series. I know there's a few more Rock N' Roll Express matches I've overlooked, but struggling to recall specifics off the top of my head.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I have a 32 disc Midnight Express comp


That i ordered this week :mark: Ive seen a few Midnight/Rock N Roll matches and a couple of other major matches, but i need to watch a helluva lot more


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Followed C2D and Fluze's league and posted the list on the General section


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Whatever happened to Fluze, why is he banned?


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

How was Punk/Lawler cage match? I needed a break from WWE back then, so now I'm trying to catch up now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah I found it strange he was banned just like that.



EmbassyForever said:


> How was Punk/Lawler cage match? I needed a break from WWE back then, so now I'm trying to catch up now.


It's ok, I guess. Only noteworthy stuff is prob. the blading by Punk.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

ATF said:


> *1 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 16: Badd Blood*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This was In Your House 18. In Your House 16 was Canadian Stampede, 17 was Ground Zero


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn typo, thanks mate


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Anyone down for some tag team discussion? We haven't gone through that in a while; Rockers or Hart Foundation!? The Dudleys or the Hardyz!? Who you guys got for GOAT teams?


I remember loving TWGTT. Their consistency in 2003 was wonderful. 

Of all time, it's Edge & Christian along with the Hart Foundation for me.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**3/4 for Kane/Bryan and *** for Cena/Ryback from last night


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I was legit surprised by Cena/Ryback, on a "funny silliness" way. I'll forever call that match the Step Wars :cena4

Kane/Bryan, my two favourites in the world atm, was good but albeit too short. If only Bryan went on to win the WWE Title, then defend it against Kane at Survivor Series to finally blow-off the Hell No angle :mark:


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

Benoit's personal life doesn't need to be mentioned every time his name is brought up.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

@ATF

Thanks man for taking the time to make that list. That must have taken forever. 

To the dude who says Cena V Punk doesn't make your top 5 for 2012 thats a little surprising. I'm curious what you have ahead of it. I don't know if I'd go the full 5 for Brock/Cena ER but 4.5 at least.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The 12th Man said:


> Benoit's personal life doesn't need to be mentioned every time his name is brought up.


Indeed. It's so annoying.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed but it's pretty much a big novelty nowadays. So much that most ignore his great legacy at "fake fighting" as put by stupids on YouTube.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Lawler Cage was one of the few not-so-good matches in Punk's reign (some of the others being Punk/Sheamus on RAW and the Royal Rumble travesty). Lawler looked out of it and missed a couple spots. Punk was alright but the match went on too long. He did sing the Andy Kaufman song during the match :lmao. Also did a bladejob. The match mainly didn't work because fans were not willing to side with Lawler.

I forgot to thank zep81 and gang for showing me the glory that is Slaughter/Sheik. I did not know the Iron Sheik had it in him, but my goodness this match was so heated. I hate patriotic feuds, but Slaughter nailed the sympathetic babyface here. His blade job was sick and when he screamed and began his babyface comeback towards the end, I just had to stand up and clap. Out of the three big Slaughter matches around that time, I think the Patterson one was my favorite, but all three of them (Backlund/Slaughter being the third) are among the best gimmick matches in company history. Also loved how they kept the match short. No HHH drawn out crap.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm watching Money in the Bank now and damn that first ladder match was fun. Sure it had some contrived bullshit in there but for the most part I enjoyed the creativity and innovation. CODY FUCKIN RHODES!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I see both sides to the Benoit debate. Obviously what he did was terrible. He couldn't have been in the right frame of mind. Those who knew him well say the same thing. The autopsy clearly showed signs of brain damage. I think I read too DRs thought he would be dead within the year? Someone else probably knows the ansswer. 

You can't deny Benoit's greatness in the ring and his work rate. One of the best in both of those areas. Hitler was a very smart dude. Manson was talented in the music department. I'm NOT comparing Benoit to those two. I'm just saying you never hear about the good things they did. People focus on the negative. That is the culture we live in especially in America. Again I see both sides of this. I do have a little sympathy for Benoit but its understandable to not get past what he did.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I see both sides to the Benoit debate. Obviously what he did was terrible. He couldn't have been in the right frame of mind. Those who knew him well say the same thing. The autopsy clearly showed signs of brain damage.* I think I read too DRs thought he would be dead within the year?* Someone else probably knows the ansswer.


Yeah, they said he would have died within 10 months from when the tragedy happened. Wish it had just went down like that, something like his heart stopping while driving home. Tragic ending too but people would remember him fondly then. Although then concussions would have probably continued to go untreated by WWE.

I don't really care if others don't want to watch his matches but it pisses me off when some fuckheads think they have the right to tell me what I should or should not be a fan of and watch.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, they said he would have died within 10 months from when the tragedy happened. Wish it had just went down like that, something like his heart stopping while driving home. Tragic ending too but people would remember him fondly then. Although then concussions would have probably continued to go untreated by WWE.
> 
> I don't really care if others don't want to watch his matches but it pisses me off when some fuckheads think they have the right to tell me what I should or should not be a fan of and watch.


I agree 100% with that. It doesn't make you a better or worse person if you watch Benoit matches still and enjoy them.

I watch the RAWs after Owen and Eddie all the time. They just make me happy in a strange way. I have friends who went to the PPV in KC where Owen died and I almost went with. I was a SR in High School and it's something I think about a lot. There is this feeling with those two (Owen and Eddie) I get when I watch their matches of how amazing they were at what they did and how they left us too early. With Benoit it's a very numb feeling but I admit I watch his matches still and enjoy them. Especially WM 20 and his matches with Angle and the match with Bret at the Owen tribute show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> As for tag teams: WWF/E - The Rockers by a country mile. Of the modern era - MNM.
> 
> Historically speaking its hard to look past The Rock N' Roll Express or The Midnight Express. Arguably the greatest babyface and heel tag teams in existence and the benchmark of tag team wrestling throughout the 80s. Arn & Tully are a great heel duo, The Moondogs were excellent as pure sleazy brawlers, The Fantastics were exceptional and have arguably the best tag team match in US history vs The Midnight Express. Special mention to The Fabulous Ones and if we go outside of America, then Kawada/Taue in All Japan.


:clap

Tag team wrestling history lesson. You and I _(and anyone else)_ need to get on this. Teach the world on how two vs two grappling > the world and the cosmos it lives in.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

STF matches might just be the ultimate embodiment of professional wrestling in terms of riveting entertainment. I could watch Rock N' Roll Express/Midnight Express '90 endlessly and never tire of the entire Lane/Eaton comeuppance spots and them bumping all over the ring in the opening shine segment. Then they seque in perfectly into Morton as FIP, some great cut offs and building heat, Cornette on the floor continuously interjecting himself and riling the crowd into absurdity and then the hot tag and immense flurry of bayface offence. You just can't beat it.

Read the Kurt Angle thread in the General WWE Section. Summarisation? MURDEROUS THOUGHTS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Pretty sure the best tag team ever are the Faces of Fear. #2 would be Haku and Saito, only at #2 because I only saw them team up for about six minutes. I'll say #3 are the Islanders just to have a Haku triple threat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE DICKS are one of the best around too. Nothing like seeing 2 Dicks double teaming one of the babyfaces :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> STF matches might just be the ultimate embodiment of professional wrestling in terms of riveting entertainment. I could watch Rock N' Roll Express/Midnight Express '90 endlessly and never tire of the entire Lane/Eaton comeuppance spots and them bumping all over the ring in the opening shine segment. Then they seque in perfectly into Morton as FIP, some great cut offs and building heat, Cornette on the floor continuously interjecting himself and riling the crowd into absurdity and then the hot tag and immense flurry of bayface offence. You just can't beat it.
> 
> *Read the Kurt Angle thread in the General WWE Section. Summarisation? MURDEROUS THOUGHTS.*


This. The bias in that thread goes to the point where Flair and Shawn are "overrated pricks" fpalm 

The worshipping of the 100mph spotfest wrestling style that Angle wrassles is even more disturbing than people preferring WCW 1999-2000 over today's show :kurt


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Pretty sure the best tag team ever are the Faces of Fear. #2 would be Haku and Saito, only at #2 because I only saw them team up for about six minutes. I'll say #3 are the Islanders just to have a Haku triple threat.


Faces of Fear alongside Powers of Pain are likely my favourite bruiser tag team. Rockers/Powers of Pain to date still holds up as one of my favourite sub ten minute matches in history.

I would find it hard to not consider a team of Tenryu & LA PARKA the greatest ever mind you. Something about Tenryu punting a helpless rookie in the eyeball whilst LA PARKA struts on the apron just leaves a permanent smile on my face.



Callamus said:


> THE DICKS are one of the best around too. Nothing like seeing 2 Dicks double teaming one of the babyfaces :side:.


In the words of Eric, this is gayer than CHIKARA.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)*
This paled in comparison to their Payback match. That's a hardly a criticism though. They were never going to be able to recreate the dynamic they had going that night, and this was still good. Reminded me of their Main Event 2/13 match in terms of the high athleticism on display. I appreciated Del Rio just clocking Ziggler in the back of the head when he would normally hit the backstabber. Appropriately heelish move there. Dolph looked at home as a babyface and the match was actually going along really nicely until AJ's music hit. Although the finish served its purpose I can't deny that it left a sour taste in my mouth. Good match. Not great due to the feud/character advancement nature of the final minutes. They need to have a big blow off.

Gonna watch Cena/Henry and hopefully some of the highly pimped TV matches later.

Updated MOTY list:

1. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
2. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
3. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
4. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
5. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
6. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
7. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
8. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
9. Antonio Cesaro v Cody Rhodes v Damien Sandow v Dean Ambrose v Fandango v Jack Swagger v Wade Barrett - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
10. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
11. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)
12. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
13. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
14. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
15. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
16. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
17. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
18. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
19. Kofi Kingston v Antonio Cesaro - Main Event (5/1/13)
20. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
21. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rockers/Hart Foundation from MSG is my favorite tag team match from the 'E. The Rockers and The Hart Foundation are by far the two best teams in the company. Those folks were able to make the likes of The Powers of Pain interesting!

That Kurt Angle thread is a damn disgrace. I'm surprised that Yeah1993 didn't die from the sheer idiocy present there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cena/Henry was divisive Saint Dick. Personally speaking watching live I didn't think too much of it. Strong opening with Henry dominating Cena, working the character mannerisms like only Henry can and Cena bumping well and them seemingly establishing a strong structure. Then they started playing up the 'Cena can't lift Henry' story and I grew infuriated, moreso because it was clear WWE revisionism at work and I just found it increasingly annoying as opposed to building to the eventual payoff. Finishing stretch also felt fairly sub-standard to me in terms of trading nearfalls with little to differentiate it from other matches. Henry was very good, Cena did ok and the opening segment was strong, but for me the middle and finishing stretch didn't match the strong opening.

A few others (Yeah1993 & Rah) disagreed strongly though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I agree 100% with that. It doesn't make you a better or worse person if you watch Benoit matches still and enjoy them.
> 
> I watch the RAWs after Owen and Eddie all the time. They just make me happy in a strange way. I have friends who went to the PPV in KC where Owen died and I almost went with. I was a SR in High School and it's something I think about a lot. There is this feeling with those two (Owen and Eddie) I get when I watch their matches of how amazing they were at what they did and how they left us too early. With Benoit it's a very numb feeling but I admit I watch his matches still and enjoy them. Especially WM 20 and his matches with Angle and the match with Bret at the Owen tribute show.


I just don't think about it at all. From my perspective, I don't know what happened and I'm not convinced by the story told. Instead of trying to figure it out, I don't think about it at all and treat Benoit like any other wrestler.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Read the Kurt Angle thread in the General WWE Section. Summarisation? MURDEROUS THOUGHTS.


lmao, the worst has to be the guy who said that if you don't like Angle, you're a TNA hater.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

'Eddie not being in Kurt's league' was depressing enough to read, the subsequent TNA bashing angle just further compounded my already pissy mood. Seriously, I shan't ever make a Kurt Angle related post in this section aside from this thread. Not worth inviting an assortment of window lickers one by one to embarass themselves.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> STF matches might just be the ultimate embodiment of professional wrestling in terms of riveting entertainment. I could watch Rock N' Roll Express/Midnight Express '90 endlessly and never tire of the entire Lane/Eaton comeuppance spots and them bumping all over the ring in the opening shine segment. Then they seque in perfectly into Morton as FIP, some great cut offs and building heat, Cornette on the floor continuously interjecting himself and riling the crowd into absurdity and then the hot tag and immense flurry of bayface offence. You just can't beat it.


While I 100% agree with that, replace it with Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 and that's my ideal paradise. 

Don't get me going on some others out there too: Windham/Pillman vs Steamboat/Douglas, Nastys vs Steiners, Nastys vs Jack/Payne, Anderson/Eaton vs Valentine/Slater, Windham/Windham vs Doom, etc. For some reason they can only be from WCW for me to love 'em. :mark:



Yeah1993 said:


> Pretty sure the best tag team ever are the Faces of Fear. #2 would be Haku and Saito, only at #2 because I only saw them team up for about six minutes. I'll say #3 are the Islanders just to have a Haku triple threat.


did you ever watch that epic vs MORTIS & WRATH from Fall Brawl '97 yet? b/c if not, drop everything and watch it right now. I don't care if you had to go and save a life. That person would die b/c you must watch it. Mortis & Wrath were put in all caps for an utterly obnoxious and purpose filled reason. I'll also accept any of their TV matches. Both of those teams were the tops for tag team wrestling that year.



WOOLCOCK said:


> In the words of Eric, this is gayer than CHIKARA.


Ha.

Chikara has bred many tag team matches I dig too. Recognize. Cheech & Cloud vs The Olsen Twins. Holy crap.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Cody I took advantage of the fact we were discussing tag team wrestling in the assurance you would be too giddy from that to be offended 

I don't recall having seen said FOF vs Mortis/Wrath tag match. Might have to change that in a minute.

Arn/Windham vs Doom from Starrcade '90 is a treasure. Overlooked great match. In the words of Craig it encapsulates the atmosphere of 'folk were just there to fucking fight'.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I added my two cents into that angle thread if anybody wants to know.

Im actually the opposite of you woolcock, or maybe I read your post wrong, I didn't like it on live watch, but I enjoyed it much more the 2nd. Its good for what it was, focused Henry in the beginning destroying Cena, and then it became can Cena AA henry-Cena overcoming odds ?I think for what they were trying do they succeed.

Ziggler/Del Rio mitb is a poor mans Payback but I'm probably its hardest critic because I had huge expectations for it as like you PB is my MOTY. MITB is a mixture of payback and their main event match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck off with the Kurt Angle thread talk in here. I avoid those threads for a reason, don't need the whole topic being brought up in here too . This thread already has some shit seeping in these days as it is, don't need more!

THE ENFORCERS need to be mentioned as a kick arse team. I know even the likes of ARN didn't enjoy the team much because of the way Larry Z wrestled but I loved the contrast of styles between the two of them and they helped make the DA era so much fun.

As far as WWE teams go, The Rockers and Hart Foundation are probably my top 2, just a shame I despise all their matches together lol. Bret and Shawn couldn't even have good tag matches!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cody I took advantage of the fact we were discussing tag team wrestling in the assurance you would be too giddy from that to be offended
> 
> I don't recall having seen said FOF vs Mortis/Wrath tag match. Might have to change that in a minute.
> 
> Arn/Windham vs Doom from Starrcade '90 is a treasure. Overlooked great match. In the words of Craig it encapsulates the atmosphere of 'folk were just there to fucking fight'.


I marked either way considering you still put Chikara over The Dicks. At least the promotion isn't THAT low on your list. 

My write up on the match back in May:



> I would go into great detail about why I think this or why I love it, but honestly the match was so simplistic with its bossy nature that what I could type up over the span of two paragraphs is nearly moot. You know how these guys work if you've seen 'em (especially Mortis & Wrath circa '97) These four dudes beat the CRAP out of each other. Better yet, the fans marked hard for it. Which only further drives home the frustration of WCW not using any new faces past the midcard. I digress on their negligence in putting over the match some more. Meng was pro, per usual. Barbarian was rough, but Meng was about 10x rougher. He gets tagged in and Mortis & Wrath were screwed right from jump-street. Meng pulverized and pummeled. God damn he was the MAN. Mortis & Wrath continued to impress themselves. They actually had a hell of a year as a team. Kanyon was always one of my favorites growing up and it remains to this day. Guy was innovative. Managed to get a rise out of most crowds thanks to his offense that was never seen much from other WCW roster members. Then there is Wrath - who looking back, while I always liked him, was underrated - he came in not letting the Faces of Fear try and toss him around. Match brute force for brute force. Ah, it's brilliant this match. Replace a tad bit of the fun spots seen from the Mortis & Wrath vs Glacier & Miller tag from Bash at the Beach for more straightforward manly action and they're on the same plane. You like tag team wrestling, WCW's wonderful midcard, or any of these four? You'll adore this match. If not...well watch it and learn to love any or all of those aspects.
> 
> This ruled all.


So, so much awesome.

Dude, WWE put that match on the Falls Count Anywhere DVD set. I went bonkers when it was put on there. Got to watch it in clear as day quality. Wrestling is missing brawls like that today. Well, maybe not in Mexico as we noticed with La Parka on the scene.



Callamus said:


> THE ENFORCERS need to be mentioned as a kick arse team. I know even the likes of ARN didn't enjoy the team much because of the way Larry Z wrestled but I loved the contrast of styles between the two of them and they helped make the DA era so much fun.


(Y)

No doubt. Another drop in the bucket of some wonderful duos.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've been binging on some WCCW lately (thoughts on matches will come shortly) and bsides the obvious teams that made their names there (Freebirds, Von Erichs), the combination of Chris Adams and Gino Hernandez deserves a mention. Gino is probably one of the biggest "what-ifs" in wrestling even if he is never mentioned in that conversation.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always had a hard time staying invested with WCCW. Even the bigger matches lacked that certain something to keep me from turning it off. Flair vs Kerry in the cage bored me, for a strong example. I did always like Kevin Von Erich. And Iceman King Parsons feuding with Brickhouse Brown. Now I think I'm going into USWA territory.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> I added my two cents into that angle thread if anybody wants to know.
> 
> Im actually the opposite of you woolcock, or maybe I read your post wrong, I didn't like it on live watch, but I enjoyed it much more the 2nd. Its good for what it was, focused Henry in the beginning destroying Cena, and then it became can Cena AA henry-Cena overcoming odds ?I think for what they were trying do they succeed.
> 
> Ziggler/Del Rio mitb is a poor mans Payback but I'm probably its hardest critic because I had huge expectations for it as like you PB is my MOTY. MITB is a mixture of payback and their main event match


Well, you weren't gonna get a second double turn. lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ziggler vs Del Rio from MITB was pretty much their second best match they've ever had. Only two drawbacks: they weren't going to recreate the magic Payback had and we all knew it, including them & the second being it had a lame finish. Without those playing a major hindrance, the bout was still rather top notch. It played off on the goods Payback had only this time without Dolph being the complete victim. He was able to counter portions of Del Rio's feverish assault towards the head and use that to nearly earn him the World Championship. Quality match that held up on the rewatch.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Rio has been consistent in the ring. Just watched Rio vs Christian on the recent RAW, and man, that had to be MOTN. Rio is aggressive as fuck lately. That steel step spot was amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't surprised. Del Rio's best asset has always been his in ring work. Then again, I guess that is his only asset in regards to his WWE career. The aggressive thingy is moot. Outside of the attacks on Dolph via that storyline, the rest of the claims is kayfabe glorifying. They've been dubbing him _"much more aggressive"_ since like...Post-WM 27. Or even earlier once the Mysterio feud finished.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Arn/Windham vs Doom from Starrcade '90 is a treasure. Overlooked great match.


Overshadowed by Sting v Black Scorpion.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Wasn't surprised. Del Rio's best asset has always been his in ring work. Then again, I guess that is his only asset in regards to his WWE career. The aggressive thingy is moot. Outside of the attacks on Dolph via that storyline, the rest of the claims is kayfabe glorifying. They've been dubbing him _"much more aggressive"_ since like...Post-WM 27. Or even earlier once the Mysterio feud finished.


There was talk about how when he got injured, he was set to come back more aggressive than ever. But was still sort of a loser. Now he's really looking dangerous in the ring, not that he is dangerous to work with, but you know what I mean. I would have really got that classic heel feel if he attacked Christian after the match and beat the hell out of him, seems like something 2000 HHH would do.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> There was talk about how when he got injured, he was set to come back more aggressive than ever. But was still sort of a loser. Now he's really looking dangerous in the ring, not that he is dangerous to work with, but you know what I mean. I would have really got that classic heel feel if he attacked Christian after the match and beat the hell out of him, seems like something 2000 HHH would do.


The problem with all of this is booking. If he would have snapped after the match against Christian it would have been fine if that's the norm for Del Rio. It isn't. All this "aggressive" stuff seems to be the fact that he just works his matches hard. Even though he always has since day one. That's why I don't buy into it. Now if his character was mega heel'ing it up with him having vicious assault after vicious assault + it becoming more of a cadence within his persona as a whole, the aspect would be believable. WWE are getting their wires crossed and not finishing the job. He's conceded and doesn't care about the fans for his personality, but then some gambling man destructive force in the ring and never on any other point like in a segment? Feels off. Kind of the same with Sandow too; although he has his matches where he proceeds to use his "intelligence"/cowardice to fit his role better.


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Hey ATF I enjoyed your list but why did you omit Punk vs Bryan form Over the Limit 2012 even though it didn't close the show I am sure many would still consider that the main event


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Game1778 said:


> Hey ATF I enjoyed your list but why did you omit Punk vs Bryan form Over the Limit 2012 even though it didn't close the show I am sure many would still consider that the main event



I think he was just going with matches that closed shows. You didnt see Bret V Owen at Summerslam 94 on there. Even though the shitty Taker V Taker match closed the show. 

I see what you are saying though I think. I loooooved Punk V Bryan at OTL and MitB last year. Both were awesome but OTL was incredible. Maybe my fave match of 2012.

How fuckin hot was AJ as the ref at MitB? Geezus.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Someone made a thread asking for good Edge matches. Now I kind of want to go on am Edge watching spree. Suggesting stuff made me remember just how great of a career he had.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

British Bulldog vs Owen Hart for the European Championship is a very good match. Enjoyed the storytelling in the beginning with Bulldog dominating the opening minutes and throws Hart outside of the ring which then leads to Bulldog inviting Hart back to the ring as a way to say that's it's only business, not personal. Then the same thing happens but this time Owen Hart controls the match. Lots of back and forth action near the end including some neat reversals by both wrestlers which eventually leads to Bulldog winning the match cleanly by a roll up. 

There is also seems to be this storyline going with ECW 'invading' RAW and Lawler is like the only WWF guy that is opposed to it. I never knew Paul Heyman was referred as "Paul E" back then


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> There is also seems to be this storyline going with ECW 'invading' RAW and Lawler is like the only WWF guy that is opposed to it. I never knew Paul Heyman was referred as "Paul E" back then


Check this photo out haha


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

That Davey Boy/Owen Hart match for the European title is the greatest RAW match of all time for me personally. A real positive in the first half of 1997.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually prefer Owen/davey from 96 , I like it more. I think it's the 96 one, its the match with sunny at the end


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh Sunny. Yep. I'd still hit it.....twice


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Faces of Fear alongside Powers of Pain are likely my favourite bruiser tag team. Rockers/Powers of Pain to date still holds up as one of my favourite sub ten minute matches in history.


the Warlord kind of stops the POP from being one of my favourite teams. Dude seemed to be mostly bad. The Rockers match is excellent though, haven't seen Mania 6's main in years but the tag could be WWF MOTY.

Speaking of teams I've gone way down on the Hart Foundation the past couple of years. IDK, they kind of bore me and use that fucking nuisance of a structure that's like 'heel in peril'. Fuck heel in peril. Don't really like their Rockers matches a whole bunch. Don't really like their Demolition matches a whole bunch. Don't really like their Bulldogs matches a whole bunch. Don't really like their Arn and Tully matches a whole bunch. I remember loving a Killer Bees match but that was way back; possibly the first HF match I watched. I'd need to watch and re-watch but I'm pretty sure I like a team like MNM a whole lot more. I'll go on a HF spree one day.



funnyfaces1 said:


> That Kurt Angle thread is a damn disgrace. I'm surprised that Yeah1993 didn't die from the sheer idiocy present there.


I haven't read most of it. I quoted that guy who said something (IDR now) but between that post and my quote are a few pages I couldn't bring myself to go through. Page one was enough to know I need to avoid a mess like that. 



HayleySabin said:


> did you ever watch that epic vs MORTIS & WRATH from Fall Brawl '97 yet? b/c if not, drop everything and watch it right now. I don't care if you had to go and save a life. That person would die b/c you must watch it. Mortis & Wrath were put in all caps for an utterly obnoxious and purpose filled reason. I'll also accept any of their TV matches. Both of those teams were the tops for tag team wrestling that year.


I'm putting it off until I watch a bunch of Faces of Fear as apart of the youtube and streams bullshit I like to do. I'll try to fit them in (with that tag) after I watch more Saito.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Owen/Davey is the GOAT RAW match without a doubt. Captured the competitive feel that a title match should always have, even if it was for a lower midcard title.

Been watching some WCCW lately, and prior to now, I never realized just how good the Freebirds were. Most I saw from them was their 90s WCW matches which were average at best, but these guys were some of the best heels in the business. The Von Erichs were also pretty damn badass, as well as being the king pussy-wetters out there. They make Jeff Hardy look like Snitsky in comparison.

The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (7/4/83) *****1/2*

Their best match together and one of the best that you will see in Texas. 2/3 Falls and doesn't contain a single minute wasted. Von Erichs have such a cartoony larger-than-life persona about them that shows up in their offense and over-the-top selling. Freebirds on the other hand work together in synergy, and I like how every time they take down their opposition, they take the time to taunt the crowd or their opponents on the apron. Very old-school of them. Lots of 80s southern tag tropes here as well, which are always a good thing. Watch this if you're in the mood for a classic affair.

The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (Lumberjack Match) (2/18/83) ****3/4*

Very well-done early bout of theirs which goes from a well-worked three man tag to an all out brawl at the very end. Reminds me of some of our favorite Shield bouts.

The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (Bunkhouse Elimination Cage Match) (9/3/84) ******

Kevin Von Erich once again with a beautiful babyface showing with the odds heavily against him. He is exactly what John Cena wishes to be as an against-the-odds underdog face. Even when it was 3-on-1, I was still hoping that he would pull off the victory.

The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (Badstreet Match) (7/4/84) ******

Only ten minutes, but one of the hottest hard hitting brawls you will see.

The Fabulous Freebirds vs. The Von Erichs (8/12/83) ****1/2*

An exposition of how well the Freebirds can play a crowd. Holy crap Buddy Roberts is the ultimate troll, especially with his fake hair helmet a la Kurt Angle in 2002.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Did you watch all of those Von Erich/Freebirds matches on you tube? It's a bummer when that World Class DVD came out there were not more matches between those two. You could almost make an entire DVD set of that rivalry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm putting it off until I watch a bunch of Faces of Fear as apart of the youtube and streams bullshit I like to do. I'll try to fit them in (with that tag) after I watch more Saito.


(Y)

It's no new bit of knowledge to you, but Faces of Fear damn near stole '97. I could make the list of top workers that year (I guess only for WCW, but meh, I have Meng WAY up there in total) and boy is it a whopper of talent. No kidding that I'd have Kevin Greene up there. Nobody who looks that good in a six man tag vs nWo & has a fun match with Mongo should ever be slighted.

btw was the Killer Bees vs Hart Foundation tag the one that made Bret Hart's first three disc set? b/c I was big on that match myself.

-----------

Watched WrestleMania 27 over today sans main event because I started to feel ill. _(no joke; I really am)_ Everything stayed the same for the most part: Rhodes vs Mysterio is still MOTN by a country mile, Punker vs Orton is good, & so is Edge vs Del Rio. Two mutli-tags are waste of time & King vs Cole is bullshit for 30 minutes. Then there is Undertaker vs Triple H. And ladies and gentleman I say fuck this match. Not like how I have before with my thought process on it being "mediocre". It's beyond that. It's flat out *bad*. No structure whatsoever and the storytelling is forced as ever. Both men needed a swift slap in the face after that piece of garbage was given. Do a spot; lie down forever. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Die match, die. A massive *DUD* if I ever saw one. Undertaker is better than this.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Says the guy who enjoys the boring bullshit that is Taker/Sid from WM 13 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was Cal. I said I don't remember it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, it was something else with Sid iirc. Hogan/Sid WM 8 I believe.

And with the exception of very, very few stuff, Sid was pure GARBAGE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just picked up the Payback blu ray from Best Buy pretty much just to see Ziggler vs Del Rio and Punk vs Jericho. I think I might have a really unpopular opinion here, but I think the Punk-Jericho match was better than Ziggler-Del Rio. I enjoyed the double turn but it just seemed like most of the match was Ziggler selling his heart out while he got kicked in the head. It worked perfectly in a storytelling way, and it was great to see the crowd behind Ziggler, but match quality wise it isn't a ***** match like I see a lot of people claiming. I'm not a Punk mark at all, and he is really hit or miss with me, but I thought his match with Jericho was excellent (although really Jericho rarely has a match I don't like). I'd give Punk-Jericho *** 3/4* and Ziggler-Del Rio ***1/2*

One match that REALLY surprised me was the Miz-Barrett-Axel triple threat. I have zero interest in all 3 of those guys, so I was pleasantly surprised to find myself enjoying it as much as I did. It might be the only Miz match I really like. A solid *** effort from everyone.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> It's no new bit of knowledge to you, but Faces of Fear damn near stole '97. I could make the list of top workers that year (I guess only for WCW, but meh, I have Meng WAY up there in total) and boy is it a whopper of talent. No kidding that I'd have Kevin Greene up there. Nobody who looks that good in a six man tag vs nWo & has a fun match with Mongo should ever be slighted.
> 
> ...


Thank you for saying that. I thought I was the only one who thought Trips-Taker at WM27 was a total dud. I've seen several people post on this forum that its some of the best story telling and psychology they have ever seen in a match. I own the Streak DVD so I saw it on there, and I could hardly make it through it. Totally bored the hell out of me. It reminded me of the Trips-Shawn Armageddon 2 out of 3 Falls match, in that they would just hit a spot then lay there for 5 minutes. So dull.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Let's make a new discussion out here:

Mankind, Cactus Jack or Dude Love?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Let's make a new discussion out here:
> 
> Mankind, Cactus Jack or Dude Love?




Oh man, I'm a huge Foley fan so this is tough...


Cactus Jack. He had 2 ***** matches as Cactus Jack (Royal Rumble 2000 and Backlash 2004) and I always enjoyed the insane/controlled fury of the Cactus Jack promos (the anti-hardcore ECW promos he cut in 1995 might be the best promos of all time).

Don't get me wrong, I loved Mankind to, and he had a ***** match as Mankind against Shawn Michaels at Mind Games. But Cactus Jack always seemed like more of a force, always seemed like he should be taken more seriously, than Mankind.

Dude Love was just a total goof and had zero memorable matches outside of the 2 classic matches he had at back to back ppv's with Stone Cold (Over the Edge was my favorite).

Mick spent all of his career up until 1996 as Cactus Jack, spent part of 1997 as Cactus Jack, and spent most of 2000, 2004, 2006 as Cactus Jack. He is more known as Mankind but Cactus Jack I feel should be his legacy among the real wrestling fans.


***EDIT*** I also forgot to mention Mick stealing the show as Cactus Jack at Wrestlemania in 2006 in that hardcore masterpiece against Edge. While probably not a full ***** match, it definitely stole the show in my book and finally gave Mick his "Wrestlemania Moment". So yea, I'll take Jack over Mankind/Dude Love any day


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mankind would be my pick. Cactus' ECW promos were incredible, fact right there (esp. Cane Dewey). Mention for the Backlash 2004 "I'm gonna love it" promo. And yes, he had countless great hardcore matches (vs HHH is ***** to me too). But as far as gimmick work is concerned, pre-1998 Mankind is easily Top 5 favourite gimmicks ever for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If Mankind had stayed the same character as he was in 1996 and worked in that style, I'd probably move him ahead of Cactus Jack. Too bad he didn't, he sorta turned into a goof and became spot happy and didn't use the same psychology he'd used in years before.

I've said this in several places, Mick Foley is one of the best in ring psychologists wrestling has ever seen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Foley is God.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I love his interview with J.R. in character as Mankind telling real life Mick Foley stories. That interview and the Mind Games match with Shawn Michaels is what really got be into the Mankind character instead of just wishing he'd be Cactus Jack.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cactus Jack by a country mile for me. Matches with sting & VADER were Cactus, work in 2000 with HAITCH was all cactus, the work with Orton was pretty much cactus, as was all of his WCW & ECW work. Cactus Jack pretty much blows away both mankind & dudesters work combined.

Oh, and CANE DEWEY.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

1.Early Mankind
2. Cactus Jack
3. 98-early 99 Mankind
4. Dude Love
5. Late Mankind

Once the blue pants appear my soul just collapses.

Dude Love would most likely be 3rd if they'd continued the corporate Dude Love thing which was fucking beautiful. Also Cjack the Wrestlemania 22 hardcore match is as Mick Foley, not Cactus Jack, of course its not Foley's best match as himself...


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What was he in the ONS 6 Man? That's gotta' add points to whichever persona, because that match is unbelievable.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Craig said:


> 1.Early Mankind
> 2. Cactus Jack
> 3. 98-early 99 Mankind
> 4. Dude Love
> ...



True, but he was essentially Cactus Jack there even though he was introduced as Mick Foley. He was wearing not 1, but 2 Flannel shirts AND a Cactus Jack "Wanted" shirt. Although I don't think he was wearing the leopard print boots, I'll have to check to be sure. He essentially wrestled Cactus Jack style, not Mankind or Dude Love style.


Totally agree with you on the corporate Dude Love angle, I loved every minute of it.

My soul dies when the blue pants appear as well. As entertaining as the Rock and Sock segments were, the matches were crap because Mick could hardly move at this point. Plus, it was too silly for my taste, I like Mick in his "Cane Dewey promo" mode. Psychotic, yet controlled. A force in other words, not a human muppet as trips once accurately dubbed the late Mankind.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

He was just Foley in that too Flux, only match he's had as one of the personas since retiring in 2000 is that really awful match with Carlito as Mankind back in 2005.

I'm an insane Foley fan, rabid one and even I forgot that happened.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> What was he in the ONS 6 Man? That's gotta' add points to whichever persona, because that match is unbelievable.


He was Cactus Jack in that match, no matter what they introduced him as. He was essentially playing the heel Jack from 95' right before he left ECW for the WWE. His opening promo "I admit, I sold out.....MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, I SOLD OUT THE STAPLES CENTER, I SOLD OUT THE...." classic stuff. Lita calling Tommy Dreamer "the innovator of silence" hahaha.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Craig said:


> He was just Foley in that too Flux, only match he's had as one of the personas since retiring in 2000 is that really awful match with Carlito as Mankind back in 2005.
> 
> I'm an insane Foley fan, rabid one and even I forgot that happened.


I'm not disagreeing with you on this point, because you are 100% right. But can you honestly say the match from WM22 or ONS was any different than a classic Cactus Jack performance? The only match I consider a "Mick Foley" performance was his Falls Count Anywhere match with Terry Funk back in 1997 I believe where they were battling for his "soul". Other than that, even when I see him introduced as Mick Foley at WM 22 or ONS or Summerslam 06 vs Ric Flair, I just see Cactus Jack, he's even wearing a Cactus Jack shirt most of the time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> What was he in the ONS 6 Man? That's gotta' add points to whichever persona, because that match is unbelievable.


Himself. But himself is badass too. 'Cause he's MICK Motherfucking FOLEY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure, but I might just go for a Mick Foley project. Top 100 or something. Anything from ECW not vs. Funk or Dreamer worth watching?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Not sure, but I might just go for a Mick Foley project. Top 100 or something. Anything from ECW not vs. Funk or Dreamer worth watching?


To be honest, his Sabu matches were not AMAZING by anyone's standards, but they are probably worth another watch because this was the Hardcore "Dream" matchup of the early 1990's.

I enjoyed his tag match with Mikey Whipwreck against the Public Enemy too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Love this. So much. Promo and match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This last page being nothing but Mick Foley talk has brought a tear to my eye.

As for who's his best persona? Hard to say. Even Dude Love was awesome DESPITE what Foley himself will tell ya. The light-hearted Mick Foley character. Basically was the zaniness of the guy captured as a character who didn't have to risk his life once he worked. Except for the Over The Edge match. He was bumping traditionally like Mankind or Jack in that one. I potentially can't choose a favorite time or character for Foley however I'll say his 1995 heel Cactus Jack is top notch considering he cut the "greatest damn promos ever heard" semi-weekly that year. his Anti-Hardcore promo that was put on the Mick Foley: Greatest Hits & Misses DVD set is what inspired me to want to be a wrestler even though I kind of don't want be. Nothing has ever, ever jazzed me up like that promo. He made his blight & aggression come off so well that I wanted to experience that emotion. Create my own bit of magic, no matter the consequences.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Foley has a legit ***** classic vs HHH at RR 2000, and a couple more ****3/4 matches in Mind Games vs HBK, Over The Edge vs Austin, Backlash 04 vs Orton and the 6-Person ONS match. WWE alone at that.

I think a Top 100 Foley is a lock for me now. FOLEYSMILEY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Goldberg took some shit in this match, bats, pipes, tables lol. But that press slam on Steiner, and Steiner's suplexes on Goldberg :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Foley's career is chalk filled with tremendous matches. A lot from '97 alone is flying through my head.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Foley has a legit ***** classic vs HHH at RR 2000, and a couple more ****3/4 matches in Mind Games vs HBK, Over The Edge vs Austin, Backlash 04 vs Orton and the 6-Person ONS match. WWE alone at that.
> 
> I think a Top 100 Foley is a lock for me now. FOLEYSMILEY.



I'd LOVE to see a Top 100 Foley list. Whats your opinion on his I Quit Match against the Rock in 1999? Foley himself has said that it was too brutal and he didn't find it to be entertaining, he said that the Rock got carried away hit him a lot more than had been previously planned. Yet it got voted Match of the Year.

Personally, I loved all of it until the end with the unprotected chair shots to the head while Foley was hand cuffed. That was just a bit too much for me and made me cringe at the time, and I have not watched it since.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think i'm just going to stick with WWF/E only for this list though. Saddens me because the FCA match vs Sting on Beach Blast, and the Barbed Wire match vs Funk are both quite the fun.



cjack828 said:


> I'd LOVE to see a Top 100 Foley list. Whats your opinion on his I Quit Match against the Rock in 1999? Foley himself has said that it was too brutal and he didn't find it to be entertaining, he said that the Rock got carried away hit him a lot more than had been previously planned. Yet it got voted Match of the Year.
> 
> Personally, I loved all of it until the end with the unprotected chair shots to the head while Foley was hand cuffed. That was just a bit too much for me and made me cringe at the time, and I have not watched it since.


Well, I think it does tell an insanely good story with Mankind refusing to quit. Though it is quite disturbing and sickening to watch, that's true.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Love this. So much. Promo and match.


That was Foley's best match of 1997 IMO and holy crap that crowd during that match (Y):clap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Snubbing out Foley's WCW work is going to leave out quite a bit of quality stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I am in deep search of some of his gems. Watching the Saturday Night Shotgun match on February '97 vs Bret Hart now (only know that because it's before Final Four ). And like I said, it is a shame to leave out his awesome work against the likes of Sting, Vader or Pillman, but it is what it is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Mankind vs Alex Porteau doesn't make the list, I'll be upset. :side:

Going to watch Mankind vs Owen Hart from the first RAW of '97. It doesn't take me much to get inspired to go on a Foley binge. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I need to watch more of Foley's work. Everything I've seen has been awesome (except Carlito match and "feud" obviously).

Dude Love's theme always makes me laugh.

EDIT: Owen vs Mankind from Raw 97 is a pretty good match. One of the few 97 stuff I've actually watched.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HOLY. SHIT.

Raw 1998:

MANKIND VS. MARK HENRY :mark: :mark:

Too bad the full video on Dailymotion isn't even 7 minutes long, and that this isn't the REAL Mark Henry yet


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I need to watch more of Foley's work. Everything I've seen has been awesome (except Carlito match and "feud" obviously).
> 
> Dude Love's theme always makes me laugh.
> 
> EDIT: Owen vs Mankind from Raw 97 is a pretty good match. One of the few 97 stuff I've actually watched.



Dude Love....

Duuuude Lovee...

Dude Love Baby....

Dude Love


Hahahaha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Henry match is where Foley debuts socko. Fun fact.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Trying to find the exact date but I can't. On cagematch.net there used to be that database that told every match two workers had against each other but now I can't find it :hmm:

EDIT: Forget it, got it already. Raw 10/12/1998


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Only Foley matches I have watched is his early 97 work, his I Quit and Empty Arena matches with the Rock and his matches with both Orton and Edge.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Straying away from the Foley talk for just a moment - What do people think of the Warrior/Rude matches from Summerslam 89/90? I chose those matches for my Summerslam project because I hadn't seen any Warrior matches (or Rude matches for that matter) and got wind of the finish of the Harts/Demolition match and changed my mind on watching that. 

After watching those matches, I hate Warrior. He makes Cena look like Shawn Michaels with his selling. Gets a great reaction, though.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Christian vs. William Regal - WWE Breaking Point 2009 for the ECW Championship: ***3/4*

I really enjoyed this match. Before the match starts, Ezekiel Jackson and Vladimir Koslov (who accompanied Regal to the ring) are banned from ringside, therefore making it a true one-on-one match. The match starts off with Christian getting the upper hand early, almost applying the Killswitch early, a callback to their Summerslam match. The momentum shifts with Regal pushing Christian to the outside while he was sitting on the top turnbuckle and gets vicious by kneeing him in the face and turning him inside out with a sick suplex. Christian took a sick bump when Regal did the Regalplex but he manages to kick out. I liked how whenever Christian tries to get the advantage by doing a big move like a spinning DDT, Regal stops his momentum with a simple yet vicious elbow to the face. Christian manages to come back and there was some great back and forth action until Christian got the Killswitch on Regal and ultimately the victory. Overall, really good match by two great wrestlers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mankind vs Owen was quality. Finish got a hefty :mark: out of me once I saw Mankind pick up the W with the excellent pulling piledriver. I swear if I was a wrestler a vast majority of my offense would be taken from Mick Foley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dammit iwatchwrestling, you replace talk of MICKFUCKINGFOLEY about Warrior? Not cool. 

Yeah, the Warrior/Rude 1989 match was very good, but the 1990 Cage match was only fairly decent at best imo.

Now, back into MICK FOLEY, the match on Shotgun vs Bret Hart is actually a very good gem.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Warrior vs Rude from SummerSlam '89 is fantastic. Rick Rude busts out a Gonzo Bomb. We all rejoice.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Goldberg took some shit in this match, bats, pipes, tables lol. But that press slam on Steiner, and Steiner's suplexes on Goldberg :mark:


That match was absolute carnage. I loved every second of it. The only thing that annoyed me were the Vince Russo and Midajah interferences but it didn't sour the match for me too much.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I really like Rude. Enjoy his work. But that Warrior :kobe2

You can return to Foley now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mankind vs. Bret Hart, Shotgun Saturday Night - ***3/4. Y'all need a break from everything to watch this. It's like a shorter version of HBK/Mankind Mind Games. It's awesome. That concrete suplex. And you got Owen Hart and pre-2000's Sunny on commentary. YES.

What do y'all think about the Rock n Sock vs Taker & Show Buried Alive match?

EDIT: MANHUNT FOR MANKIND - Mankind vs. The Rock...y Maivia :rock4 , A Cold Day In Hell - ***1/4. Awesome that Mick motherfucking Foley carried Blandy Crickets Maivia into a very fun sprint that mixed great brawling with good psychology and wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best part about it too is how it is from the original Shotgun Saturday Night inside those smaller venues. If only that lasted. Loved the hell out of the theme.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Straying away from the Foley talk for just a moment - What do people think of the Warrior/Rude matches from Summerslam 89/90? I chose those matches for my Summerslam project because I hadn't seen any Warrior matches (or Rude matches for that matter) and got wind of the finish of the Harts/Demolition match and changed my mind on watching that.
> 
> After watching those matches, I hate Warrior. He makes Cena look like Shawn Michaels with his selling. Gets a great reaction, though.


They had a match at MSG that i havn't seen in a while too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My MANHUNT FOR MANKIND now going for some BOILER ROOM BRAWLS. Paul Wight/Big Show at Backlash 1999 up first. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That match OWNS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It is owning so far. A BOILER ROOM KITCHEN.

EDIT: Teddy Long, 10 years before starting Tag-Team-a-Mania, was refereeing Boiler Room Brawls. :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KingCal will be angry if he hears anything positive about the Boiler Room Brawl between Taker and Foley. 

So I've finished SummerSlam 88 (what a shitty show) and don't want to jump straight onto 89 yet. Is there any event that I should watch now? I want it to be pre-2000s by the way. Wanna save the best for last. I've been thinking about 99 but it doesn't seem too interesting.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> KingCal will be angry if he hears anything positive about the Boiler Room Brawl between Taker and Foley.
> 
> So I've finished SummerSlam 88 (what a shitty show) and don't want to jump straight onto 89 yet. Is there any event that I should watch now? I want it to be pre-2000s by the way. Wanna save the best for last. I've been thinking about 99 but it doesn't seem too interesting.


What did you think about the Harts/Demolition? I love the Harts, but I just couldn't with Demolition.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah but Callamus won't. 

Mankind/Show Boiler Room Brawl is BEASTLY. 'Nuff said. Now moving on to another Boiler Room Brawl Foley had against Triple H on SmackDown. MANHUNT FOR MANKIND.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> What did you think about the Harts/Demolition? I love the Harts, but I just couldn't with Demolition.


Nothing special. But the best part of the show along with the main event. Don't think anything here has a chance of entering my top 50 list so I cheated a bit and skimmed through parts of the show and matches when it was boring.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Only Foley matches I have watched is his early 97 work, his I Quit and Empty Arena matches with the Rock and his matches with both Orton and Edge.


If I were you, I'd make Royal Rumble 2000 vs Trips, Mind Games 1996 vs Shawn Michaels, Hell in a Cell vs Undertaker, Falls Count Anywhere vs Sting in 1994, and anything really from his feud with Vader mandatory viewing. They are all 4-star and 5-star matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Yeah but Callamus won't.
> 
> Mankind/Show Boiler Room Brawl is BEASTLY. 'Nuff said. Now moving on to another Boiler Room Brawl Foley had against Triple H on SmackDown. MANHUNT FOR MANKIND.



I thought I was one of the only people that loved his Boiler Room Brawl with Taker and Show. The intensity of them is unbelievable, I'd put Foley's brawling up against Stone Cold's best, Bruiser Brody's best, Taker's Best, hell anyone really. I remember when I watched the one vs Taker live on PPV I was pretty much holding my breathe the entire time, it was that captivating. Haven't seen the Triple H one though that is going to be mandatory viewing as soon as I can find it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Boiler Room Brawl vs HHH is very good, for something around 4:30 minutes. Apparently there's some 8-men Tag between DX against Rock n' Sock and Acolytes. Is it any good?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sure this is the Warrior/Rude @ MSG match: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7oi2w_ravishing-rick-rude-vs-ultimate-war_sport


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on the Foley/Flair 2 out of 3 falls match at Vengeance 06?


----------



## Mr Poifect (Apr 10, 2013)

I was watching No Mercy 2006 the other day with my son. It was one of the old Smackdown! PPV's. The opening match, Matt Hardy v Helms, was outstanding.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Foley vs Flair from Vengeance '06 sucks.

This match, however, does not:






Bigelow vs a junior wrestler & that juniors wrestler is Waltman :mark:

Totally going on an Action Zone binge right now. Only around 33 episodes so if I can find the matches; this shouldn't take too long.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on the Foley/Flair 2 out of 3 falls match at Vengeance 06?


Fucking garbage IIRC. 

The I Quit match however? Watch that.

Bought Wrestlemania XXIX yesterday, probably going to watch a little bit of that later. Enjoyed it up and down more on the first watch than XXV, XXVII, & the vastly overrated XXVIII so take that as you may. Punk/Taker, SHIELD, two of my favourites going at it in a no holds barred match, Henry-Ryback producing and being perhaps the most underrated match of the year, with the main event producing the result I wanted even if the match itself was trash. Nothing bad on it besides the main event which still left me with a good taste so the show is straight up fun from where I sit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Undertaket/Vader from Action Zone was a HUGE disappointment. So upset about it. The first few episodes had some gems though.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Foley love :mark:, Foley was the first guy I ever scoped out after I got into wrestling. I hold Foley in the same regsrds as I do Flair and Funk, I love him.

Foley binge perhaps? YES


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The I Quit match I've watched a billion times already (i got the SS 2006 DVD), but it is incredible.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched the Flair/Foley I Quit match yesterday. Flair, "This isn't a lay down on your ass match!" "I'll kill you right here!" :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Vader only got about three minutes on the Action Zone. Can't expect that to be enough for those two. Luckily they got to work down the line.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I will have to re-watch the Foley-Flair I Quit Match, I remember not enjoying it as much as I thought I would upon first viewing, and haven't checked it out since. As soon as I get home from work I'm going on my own Foley Binge and that match will be at the top of my list.

If you want to see more excellent Foley brawling, Check out his Chicago Street Fight with Maxx Payne against the Nasty Boys. It's absolutely tremendous, with the Nasties doing Nasty Boy things (pool cues anyone? anyone?) and tons of great brawling up and down the ramp from Foley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair/Foley LMS from TNA a few years ago is worth a watch too. Ending is retarded but everything else is great.

And on the subject of his street fight with Payne against the Nastys, check out the same match but with Kevin Sullivan instead of Payne. Not quite as good, but made it on my top 100 WCW matches list as well as the Payne tag.

Everyone should just go watch a ton of Foley stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If only we could grab a time machine and place 1996-97 Foley vs 2003 Lesnar 

Cal, I quite enjoyed the match Mick had on SummerSlam '96 :evil:

:taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker's expression in that smiley sums up my thoughts on anyone enjoying that pile of shite .


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> If Mankind vs Alex Porteau doesn't make the list, I'll be upset. :side:
> 
> Going to watch Mankind vs Owen Hart from the first RAW of '97. It doesn't take me much to get inspired to go on a Foley binge. :mark:


I legit give that match like ****1/2 and think its one of the best sub 10 minute matches ever, EXPLODING JUGS, DOUBLE AXE HANDLES INTO MANDIBLE CLAWS, STUMP FUCKING PILEDRIVER.



Oliver-94 said:


> Only Foley matches I have watched is his early 97 work, his I Quit and Empty Arena matches with the Rock and his matches with both Orton and Edge.


...You poor soul, you poor, poor soul.

I might have to try and make a top 10 Foley list, gonna take a hell of a lot of thought to get one I'm happy with though, only Rock match I'd even think of putting near it would be the Rock Bottom one, The Empty Arena is a hell of alot of fun though ("IT'S MILD YOU IDIOT") and the I Quit... actually isn't that good and features one of those infuriating moments where the complete lack of logic just takes me out the match (Why the hell does Mick suddenly start climbing a random ladder to clamber along the crowd rail?).

Orton match would be nowhere near it either, Edge match would have a decent shot.

The Texas Death Match against Vader can get to fuck as well, slow, plodding, telegraphed and 43 second counts? Bleh.

FOLEY VS KAWADA.... wouldn't be near a top 100 but FOLEY VS KAWADA










:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, the Orton match nowhere close? You didn't enjoy it much?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Darn it, ATF. I was considering a Top 100 Foley list, but if anyone had to do it, I'm glad that it will be you.

Mankind/Sid 3/3/97 is loads of fun for a five minute match. Total Foley carryjob.

An underappreciated bout of Foley's is his stuff with Eddie Gilbert early on in his career. Early 90s Foley kicked so much ass.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Goldberg took some shit in this match, bats, pipes, tables lol. But that press slam on Steiner, and Steiner's suplexes on Goldberg :mark:





Lord Flvcko said:


> That match was absolute carnage. I loved every second of it. The only thing that annoyed me were the Vince Russo and Midajah interferences but it didn't sour the match for me too much.


Yeah, the ending image of Goldberg was pretty great and pretty powerful. Couldn't stand the Russo nonsense, though. When he ran in, I was like "oh yeah, _this_ is the hell that was late era WCW." :StephenA



iwatchwrestling said:


> Straying away from the Foley talk for just a moment - What do people think of the Warrior/Rude matches from Summerslam 89/90? I chose those matches for my Summerslam project because I hadn't seen any Warrior matches (or Rude matches for that matter) and got wind of the finish of the Harts/Demolition match and changed my mind on watching that.
> 
> After watching those matches, I hate Warrior. He makes Cena look like Shawn Michaels with his selling. Gets a great reaction, though.


Check out Ultimate Warrior vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania VI. Yeah, I know those two in a match together sounds terrible, but it ended up being one of the best matches ever to me. One of the few Warrior or Hogan matches that I really love. The atmosphere is insane, and it felt monumental.








ATF said:


> Mankind vs. Bret Hart, Shotgun Saturday Night - ***3/4. Y'all need a break from everything to watch this. It's like a shorter version of HBK/Mankind Mind Games. It's awesome. That concrete suplex. And you got Owen Hart and pre-2000's Sunny on commentary. YES.


Gonna have to check that out later, thanks. Always love Owen on commentary.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*CM Punk Vs John Cena - Raw 23.11.09*

2009 was the first Cena/Punk match? Huh, thought they would have wrestled sooner, but ah well. The first of 13 matches between them according to the pack I downloaded on XWT .

Punk cuts a thanksgiving promo. Straight Edge stuff thrown in too. He calls people fat. How dare hsghGGEYFY G sorry got some crumbs on my keyboard and had to wipe them off. John Cena is a turkey. Gobble gobble. He CAN see Cena because he isn't on drugs or drunk and shit.

Definitely their first match together it seems, since Cole mentioned it. Then again I suppose Cole saying it leaves us with room for error. They probably had a match the year before .

Well fuck me, fans are FOR Cena and AGAINST Punk. Oh the insanity! Commentary makes me wanna kill myself. They act disgusted about how Punk called everyone fat bastards on thanksgiving... then they joke about how much they eat and mock Vickie Gurrero for being fat. WHAT?

Good TV match. Punk looks great in it, getting plenty of offence in and finding ways to escape the AA a bunch of times and counter with his own shit. Punk continues to look strong despite losing, as it takes an AA off the ropes to put him down. Whole match felt like a shorter version of something they'd go on to do in a couple of years time, only on a much smaller scale in terms of fan support and importance. Good start to their matches though.

*Rating: ****


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Xtreme Wrestling Torrents is too damn slow!


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

ATF said:


> Wait, the Orton match nowhere close? You didn't enjoy it much?


Nope, I think its rather horribly over-rated and I find the bait and switch with the flaming bat stupendously dumb, I mean it's good, like ***1/2 maybe but no where near Foley's best or hell, even Orton's best.



funnyfaces1 said:


> An underappreciated bout of Foley's is his stuff with Eddie Gilbert early on in his career. Early 90s Foley kicked so much ass.


Their 2/3 falls match is a great wee thing, love their two matches on... I think WCW Pro back in 1990


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shawn/foley had a match from 8/97 irrc the formation of DX


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Shawn/foley had a match from 8/97 irrc the formation of DX


Sure that was HHH/Michaels vs Mankind/Taker tag match IIRC in terms of DX formation.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ok that may be it memory is kinda fuzzy


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think you may be right, redskins. That match was pretty damn awesome too. Man 1997 is full of television gems.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*SummerSlam 1999:*

Jeff Jarrett vs D'Lo Brown - ★★
Tag Team Turmoil - ★★¼
Big Boss Man vs Al Snow - ★★½
Ivory vs Tori - ½★
Ken Shamrock vs Steve Blackman - ★
Test vs Shane O Mac - ★★
Undertaker & Big Show vs Kane & X-Pac - ★★¼
The Rock vs Billy Gunn - ★
Mankind vs Stone Cold vs Triple H - ★★★

*Overall:* ★★ out of ★★★★★

Not a very good show at all but it was much easier to watch than SummerSlam 88. Think I'll watch 96 next just to see judge the Foley/Taker match for myself.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Whoa, I actually thought you would like SS 99, C2D. That was one of the best shows of 1999, which will probably mean that you might not like what you will see in the Attitude Era once you're done with 2007.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The only good thing about Summerslam 99 for me is the Greenwich Street Fight between Test vs Shane McMahon. Had a blast with it. I hated the main event though. 



LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, the ending image of Goldberg was pretty great and pretty powerful. Couldn't stand the Russo nonsense, though. When he ran in, I was like "oh yeah, _this_ is the hell that was late era WCW." :StephenA


Yup. Such a shame too since this match was one of the few bright things to come out of WCW 2000. Too bad the "Goldberg refused to follow the script." stuff is mostly remembered than the Fall Brawl encounter itself.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ok that may be it memory is kinda fuzzy


I did think the formation started at ONO in '97, and the term 'Degeneration X' was first used around a week later, but i read recently that it started with that tag match i mentioned.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Whoa, I actually thought you would like SS 99, C2D. That was one of the best shows of 1999, which will probably mean that you might not like what you will see in the Attitude Era once you're done with 2007.


I know. The show progressed with ease for me but nothing was standout in the way that I'll remember it afterwards. I was entertained by Snow/Boss Man when they went to the restaurant and with Road Dogg's commentary, the main event was decent and the first couple of matches were alright. But the rest was forgettable or bad.

And yeah, all the jokes I've made about wanting to watch 1999, I'm not too sure about it if I give a serious answer. The brawling style doesn't appeal to me very much anymore and much of the main event matches consisted of punch and kicks, plus a shitload of interference in the street fight. I don't think Shane and Test went one minute without the posse interfering and I admit I was laughing hard at that.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

i watched all of 99 from rumble till may so i could see how the mcmahon higher power thing went since it's been so long. the matches weren't great and sometimes bad but almost always entertaining.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This is the match Im talking about







Cal, is that cena/punk match the viewers choice one ? Or am I off, I just found it on yt


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Having now watched all the way from January to August in 1999 myself just recently, actually, I can safely say that whilst some things were memorable, the main event scene featured few memorable matches. Only The Rock vs. Mankind at RR '99 and Stone Cold vs. The Rock at Wrestlemania XV stand out to me.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Bret and Owen Hart vs. Steiner Brothers














****1/2

Half a star off because of the disappointing finish, but *BLOODY AWESOME* match.

If this was on a PPV it would get serious MOTY accolades.

:mark: Steiner Screwdriver


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

TheeJayBee said:


> Having now watched all the way from January to August in 1999 myself just recently, actually, I can safely say that whilst some things were memorable, the main event scene featured few memorable matches. Only The Rock vs. Mankind at RR '99 and Stone Cold vs. The Rock at Wrestlemania XV stand out to me.


 Not a fan of Rock vs Austin at Backlash? That much was better than their Mania match


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

TheeJayBee said:


> Having now watched all the way from January to August in 1999 myself just recently, actually, I can safely say that whilst some things were memorable, the main event scene featured few memorable matches. Only The Rock vs. Mankind at RR '99 and Stone Cold vs. The Rock at Wrestlemania XV stand out to me.


What did you think of Rock vs Austin at Backlash 1999? I thought it was head and shoulders above their WrestleMania 15 match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, imma continue my MANHUNT FOR MANKIND with a SD 1999 match vs Shane O'Mac after the "Toughman Contest" vs Austin next :hmm:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Craig said:


> I legit give that match like ****1/2 and think its one of the best sub 10 minute matches ever, EXPLODING JUGS, DOUBLE AXE HANDLES INTO MANDIBLE CLAWS, STUMP FUCKING PILEDRIVER.
> 
> FOLEY VS KAWADA.... wouldn't be near a top 100 but FOLEY VS KAWADA
> 
> ...


Those two used about three-four different weapons in the match and the ref didn't even care. So awesome :lol

Foley vs Kawada match from HUSTLE is actually really good. Far better than I think some may think/assume or what have you. Foley was in great shape following his 2004 WWE stint and it showed. I'd have it in my Foley top 100. :mark: _(that whole HUSTLE PPV is something else, jesus. Grand.)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> Cal, is that cena/punk match the viewers choice one ? Or am I off, I just found it on yt


Nah, the viewers choice match is from June the following year.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Lord Flvcko said:


> What did you think of Rock vs Austin at Backlash 1999? I thought it was head and shoulders above their WrestleMania 15 match.


I have no idea why I forgot that match. Yeah, it's definitely above Wrestlemania XV's bout. I would give it ***1/2 but I wouldn't complain about anybody maybe knocking it up half a star.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Rock from Backlash '99 is their best match that isn't WrestleMania 19. It's very awesome - Stunner on the announce table from the POV of the camera. It's wonderful.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Some of my favourite Foley matches in no particular order (well, except for the first one)...

vs. Undertaker (KOTR HIAC 1998) - ****1/2
vs. Terry Funk (Raw Is War May 1998) - ****1/2
w/ Kevin Sullivan vs. Nasty Boys (WCW 1994) - ****
w/ Maxx Payne vs. Nasty Boys (WCW 1994) - ****
vs. Steve Austin (Over The Edge 1998) - *****
vs. Undertaker (Cold Day In Hell April 1997) - ****1/4
vs. Triple H (Royal Rumble 2000) - *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can't remember a thing about Rock/Austin BL 99. I just remember that their WM 15 match was terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There may be one or two but I know Mick Foley_(Mankind)_ vs Al Snow matches rocked & rolled too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't remember the Austin/Rock BL match either. 

Also don't remember Austin/Dude Love, although it's supposed to be great.

I have all these fucking PPVs recorded on VHS. Really need to convert them to DVD.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> *Christian vs. William Regal - WWE Breaking Point 2009 for the ECW Championship: ***3/4*
> 
> I really enjoyed this match. Before the match starts, Ezekiel Jackson and Vladimir Koslov (who accompanied Regal to the ring) are banned from ringside, therefore making it a true one-on-one match. The match starts off with Christian getting the upper hand early, almost applying the Killswitch early, a callback to their Summerslam match. The momentum shifts with Regal pushing Christian to the outside while he was sitting on the top turnbuckle and gets vicious by kneeing him in the face and turning him inside out with a sick suplex. Christian took a sick bump when Regal did the Regalplex but he manages to kick out. I liked how whenever Christian tries to get the advantage by doing a big move like a spinning DDT, Regal stops his momentum with a simple yet vicious elbow to the face. Christian manages to come back and there was some great back and forth action until Christian got the Killswitch on Regal and ultimately the victory. Overall, really good match by two great wrestlers.



Can't believe the match they had at SummerSlam :lol

VERY nearly on Sheamus/Bryan level. If they scrapped the painful Kane/Khali encounter and gave all that time to the ECW title match that PPV could've been amazing.


----------



## Forever Unchained (Nov 20, 2009)

Why the hell did Dave Meltzer give Eddie Guerrero/Art Barr vs Octagon/El Hijo Santo When Worlds Collide 1994 five stars? The match is botchy and sloppy. He must've had the horn for frankensteiners. Utterly bizarre. Urgh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Overrating galore* as WeAreProWrestling (super popular talker on YT) gave his list of Top 15 July 2013 matches:

(link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgFlVbLToHo)



> 1. Bryan vs Cesaro, Raw 7/22 (****1/2)
> 2. Gail vs Taryn, IW 7/11 (****1/2)
> 3. RVD vs Jericho, Raw 7/15 (****1/4)
> 4. Rising Stars MITB, Money In The Bank (****1/4)
> ...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could you believe some casual idiots actually believe the fan attacking Orton was APART of the show ?

Would watch the foley matches but not in the wrestling mood


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> *Overrating galore* as WeAreProWrestling (super popular talker on YT) gave his list of Top 15 July 2013 matches:
> 
> (link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgFlVbLToHo)


Normally I don't respond to these claims from the youtube twonks, but #2 is so good I had to make a mention of that.

tbf, not everything on the list are ones I disagree with. Few of those were actually quite good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I heard that ladder match was a beaut, may go watch Aj/Kaitlyn payback right now, what am I doing ?


----------



## ywall2breakerj (Mar 29, 2011)

Everything he listed was good but I'd only go **** for Bryan/Cesaro.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Damn, Austin/Taker from SS 98 is just tough to sit through. X-Pac/Tajiri from SS 2001 is pretty sweet though.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cactus Jack

Matches with Sting, Vader, time in ECW & Japan, street fight with HHH on Raw, cage match at Summerslam 97, Rumble and NWO with HHH, etc etc

I loved it when Foley was in the Rumble as all 3 in 1998.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tajiri vs X-Pac _may be_ my pick for most underrated SummerSlam match out there.

I made the "may be" portion a caveat although I doubt there is something else lingering about that's as underrated/forgotten that I love even more.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I love Shane V Test at Summerslam 99. I find it really fun.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I love Shane V Test at Summerslam 99. I find it really fun.


Yes! I really enjoy this match. Choke2Death didn't seem to think much of it but I think it's tons of fun.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Not every match has to be Dynamite v Tiger Mask or the Flair/Steamboat trilogy. Sometimes I just wanna watch something fun. 

Rocking the best of KotR blu ray right now. Bret V Bam Bam was wonderful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Yes! I really enjoy this match. Choke2Death didn't seem to think much of it but I think it's tons of fun.


I'm always up for a Shane McMahon street fight but I didn't like this one very much because there was too much interference and not enough straight up destruction. It's like they couldn't go a minute without some interference. And on top of that, they do this silly "____ is distracting the ref" even though everything is legal in a street fight. I just hate that.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I get it. I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus, you were the most recent one I saw that wasn't in favor of it. It was entertaining at the least.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I get it. I wasn't trying to throw you under the bus


Whatever ya big jerk!!

#jokes


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Test vs Shane McMahon seems by universally enjoyed by most. Wouldn't dub that underrated at all. It is incredibly fun. I 100% agree with that claim.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Did Punk and Edge ever have a match? I know Punk cashed in the first time on Edge but I don't recall them ever having a match. I'm probably wrong as I didn't watch as much from 2006-2010 as I would have liked.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Did Punk and Edge ever have a match? I know Punk cashed in the first time on Edge but I don't recall them ever having a match. I'm probably wrong as I didn't watch as much from 2006-2010 as I would have liked.


 Yeah, they did. Around 6 or 7. 

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/c-m-punk-467.html?opp=273


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seven matches to be exact. 

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=9...ext=&constellationType=Singles&worker=CM+Punk

^link to the details


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They had a decent match in 2010 during the brand war storyline. The 4/22/08 match was the best Smackdown match in a stacked television year. Their other matches really aren't anything special. 1/22/08 was pretty awful actually. Haven't seen their Superstars match though.

Test/Shane is boatloads of fun with tons of comedy. I also liked the Kane/X-Pac vs. Taker/Show tag match. Big Show throwing X-Pac into the ring from that crazy distance was awesome! Not every match has to be Dynamite/Tiger Mask, but Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask matches *SUCKED* anyways (except their first one). The most overrated series of matches of all-time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I found Big Boss Man vs Al Snow the most fun from the event. Road Dogg's commentary was entertaining and it was fun to see them exit the arena and fight in the streets all the way into a bar brawl.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unholy Alliance vs Kane & X-Pac is MOTN from SummerSlam '99 for me. Sung the praises of that one numerous times. Always glad to do so.

Oddly enough I got a fill of SummerSlam matches over the last hour: Shawn Michaels vs Vader from '96, Mankind vs Helmsley from '97, & Undertaker vs Austin from '98. The first held up per usual and I knew it would. I watch it fairly often and it's still a great display despite Shawn having his visibly pissed off antics showing up on a spot or two. Vader was the man and it made up for that. Mankind vs Helmsley I haven't seen since about 1998 and boy oh boy was that long overdue. Foley's bumping in it was on another level than the norm. He was taking that insanely stiff blue steel cage like a (again, elevated form) maniac. This was my favorite era for Triple H bar none. Blue blood gimmick; that's where the money was at for me. Awesome match and only locked down my point of how Trips best opponent is, always has been, & always will be Mick god damn Foley. Never a bad match from the two. Foley is god. Undertaker vs Austin was fine; not nearly as bad as some of their other matches. Certainly not very good, but good for a slugfest. Pardon some noticeable no-selling by both throughout it was serviceable and, more importantly, entertaining. I'm a fan. Undertaker from the top rope all the way through the announce table is insane & I love it. UNDERTAKER.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, MANHUNT FOR MANKIND next with two Ladder matches coming up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Big Bossman one is gnarly. Bossman bumps harder than Foley in it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've heard a lot about the Rock one, will be intriguing I guess.

EDIT: Yup, the Bossman one is terrible. Gave it * and that's being gentle. Talk about uninspired.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was a fan. Saw no significant wrongs with it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wrongs as in bland, a little sloppy, annoying w/Shawn burying the fuck out of it on commentary, and a terribly uninspired finish I saw myself. But to each their own.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wrote a whole sentence about Foley/Bossman after seeing it on the Ladder Match 2 bluray when I got it:

"short, fun, nothing more. HBK on commentary rating Foley's spots was the best part"


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rock/Mankind Ladder is pretty damn sweet. SO MUCH PSYCHOLOGY :homer

EDIT: For some reason decided to give the Bossman match a rewatch. Found out its positives (a bit fun and Foley's superb selling) and bumped it a star higher. But I still don't think high of it :hmm:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Best match Big Bossman has ever been privy to is Vader/The Boss from Spring Stampede '94. Absolutely tremendous slugfest between two nasty bastards. Feels like a prelude to the sort of Sheamus/Show slugfests we were treated to, alongside some well timed bigger spots. Very overlooked sub 15 minute match and a WCW gem.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just rewatched Mick Foley vs Terry Funk on Raw in 1998. It's the falls count anywhere match for Foley's "soul". Man what a great bout. I could watch those two slug it out every day for the rest of my life and never get bored. I give it a solid ****.

Does ATF or anyone else have some lesser known Foley matches that they recommend? I own both "For All Mankind" and "Greatest Hits & Misses: Bonus Edition" so I've seen all the ones on those sets. I just need some more recommendations so I can search the web


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I just found by casualty the best thing ever - NWO 2006 was on February 19th. One of the greatest WWE PPV's ever, including Angle/Taker, happened *on my birthday* :mark: :mark:

@cjack, check out the Ladder match with Rock if you haven't. If not, A Cold Day In Hell vs Rock...y Maivia :rock4 was pretty good too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Foley/Austin Raw 96... November I think? Awesome, awesome match. Made my top 100 WWF/E Matches list.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The IC Title tournment ya mean? I thought it was very good too, but only about ***1/2.

Just watched Mankind vs "Santa" Boiler Room, and I'm not even sure what to rate it. :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm gonna check out the Rock Ladder Match and the Austin match on Raw in 96'. One question, is there anything, and I mean ANYTHING, worth watching during Foley's time in TNA? I've never seen even 1 TNA match so I'm not sure if I should watch a bunch looking for a good Foley match. I'm worried I'll only end up heartbroken that he looks nothing like the Foley I know and love.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

There's a few good multi-man matches featuring him but he does nothing in them, his Lockdown match against Sting is pretty bad but fun to watch if you're a Foley fan, the main thing from TNA to watch would be his promos


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Angle/Foley from Victory Road '09 _(which is the KOTR '95 or Armageddon '04 of TNA)_ is a fun "dream match" if ya can call it that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> The IC Title tournment ya mean? I thought it was very good too, but only about ***1/2.
> 
> Just watched Mankind vs "Santa" Boiler Room, and I'm not even sure what to rate it. :lmao


It was the "tough man" man. Austin, Vader, Mankind and... maybe Undertaker (I forget) all had matches with each other in a tournament to see who was the toughest bastard lol. They just murdered each other .



cjack828 said:


> I'm gonna check out the Rock Ladder Match and the Austin match on Raw in 96'. One question, is there anything, and I mean ANYTHING, worth watching during Foley's time in TNA? I've never seen even 1 TNA match so I'm not sure if I should watch a bunch looking for a good Foley match. I'm worried I'll only end up heartbroken that he looks nothing like the Foley I know and love.


Foley Vs Flair LMS. Ending is stoopid, rest is great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, that Toughman Contest stuff. Pretty cool.

I'm now onto 2 5-ways with Foley, Kane, Taker, Rock and Show. 1st one was a mini Royal Rumble, good stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions Cal and ATF


Speaking of murdering each other, have you guys seen the Cactus vs Vader from WCW Saturday Night April 1993? Vader doesn't wear his protective gloves in it and starts the match by just teeing off on Jack's nose, eye, and mouth over and over. Even Harley Race gives Jack a few shots in the eye on the outside of the ring. The match ends in a count out and Vader ends up throwing shit everywhere it's a pretty sweet little 10 minute match. The high point for me was Jack doing his signature clothesline on Vader but instead of doing it against the ropes he does it against the steel railing sending Vader toppling over it. Vader hooks his arm in the railing and almost breaks his arm going over backwards. I bet Jack's face looked like tenderized meat after this match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No words can describe this that I just saw. Y'all have to see this:






Just... :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched WWF Rock Bottom 1998. Not a great show. Here's a review if anybody wants to give it a read. Or a skim. For some reason my reviews are getting longer and longer. 



Spoiler



*WWF Rock Bottom 1998 review​*
*Match 1: Val Venis & The Godfather vs. Mark Henry & D-Lo Brown **
D-Lo has some hoes of his own, Terri Runnels and Jacqueline. Mark Henry has now been officially dubbed ‘Sexual Chocolate’ after that fun date with Chyna. D-Lo and Henry are in control for the first half and D-Lo hits a pretty nice powerbomb on a running Val Venis. Godfater and Val take control and give Henry a double powerbomb. The ladies are arguing amongst each other and Godfather goes outside the ring to deal with it. Meanwhile the ref is distracted by this and Terri runs into the ring and pulls down Val’s trunks, revealing his interesting choice of underwear. Kind of a dumb finish but this was an okay, albeit pretty short tag team match. And I guess the finish adds some nice entertainment to open the show with.

Earlier on Heat, Mankind beat up The Rock. He then came out to the ring explaining he had a contract that said that The Rock needs to compete or he will lose his title. The Rock has injured ribs after the attack but must compete.

*Match 2: The Headbangers vs. Kurgan & Golga 1/2*
What a crappy, boring match. Just like everything else with The Oddities. I always thought I might find The Oddities entertaining, it at least sounded interesting. But it’s not, the stable is awful, and it only got worse when the fucking Insane Clown Posse joined up. Bad match, the finish comes when one of the Headbangers makes a blind tag and the other Headbanger stands around waiting for Golga to start running off the ropes so he can hit the crossbody off the top rope as the finishing spot. Not sure why I’m giving it half a star. I guess it’s somewhat passable in some way.

*Match 3: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman **1/2*
Blackman has just barely got in the ring before Owen starts beating on him. This show is in Canada by the way, so the fans are firmly behind Owen despite him being a heel normally. They really go at it with some good, hard hitting wrestling. Owen takes a baseball slide to the chest full force, knocking him right back. Cole and Lawler on commentary have some strange revisionist history, saying that all the Hart children were horrible except for Owen. Anyway, this is a pleasure to watch in comparison to the first two matches and it’s actually a good back and forth match. Owen takes off the turnbuckle pad but it turns against him when he is thrown chest first into it and then dropkicked in the back. He comes back with a dragon sleeper but Blackman fights out with some knees to the head. Owen tries going up top but misses, landing on his back. Blackman locks in a Sharpshooter, Owen makes it to the ropes and rolls out of the ring and starts walking away, Blackman goes out after him but returns back to the ring before the 10-count and Owen is counted out. This should have had a better finish, especially with Owen in his hometown. It got some decent time, a couple more minutes and a better finish could’ve helped a lot.

Vince McMahon is looking for Mankind backstage. He finds what might be the boiler room door with a sign on it saying ‘Mankind’s Office’. Vince enters, Mankind is sitting on the floor and says ‘come in, Dad’ and says they need to discuss some things. Mankind segments are always good.

*Match 4: The J.O.B Squad vs. The Brood **1/2*
This is a pretty fun 3-man tag. It starts out with a slower pace with each wrestler getting some offense in. Things break down though and go all over the place eventually. Unfortunately, I wasn’t typing as I was watching and there was a lot going on so I can’t say much about it. It’s all pretty entertaining though. Edge jumps off Gangrel’s back for a plancha, taking out Al Snow and Bob Holly on the outside for a great spot. Inside, Christian hits a killswitch on Scorpio for the pin. Fast paced and exciting match here.

*Match 5: Jeff Jarrett vs. Goldust *1/2*
This is a ‘strip tease’ match. If Jarrett, wins Goldust strips. If Goldust wins, Debra strips. For some reason I doubt that will happen. In some dumb segments on Raw, Goldust, in a trench coat, flashed Debra and later Debra returned the favour. Despite all that this is not a bad match and it helps that the crowd is into it because they really want Goldust to win. They go back and forth for most of it. Debra grabs a guitar on the outside but the ref sees her and starts arguing with her while Goldust pins Jarrett, but there is no count. Goldust then gets a close nearfall with a rollup. Then Double J is on the outside and the ref is counting him, Debra comes in and smashes the guitar over Goldust’s head. Then Jarrett hits his finisher for the pin. The crowd is not happy. Like I said this was okay, made a little better by the hot crowd.

Shawn Michaels comes out and as the commissioner rules the match as a disqualification win for Goldust. The crowd loves this. Debra now has to strip. She wasn’t happy at first but seemed to be enjoying it. Jarrett is backstage and looks pissed. Debra starts taking the bra off but the blue blazer runs in and covers her up with his cape while Jarrett argues with HBK. The crowd is again not happy. 

Vince McMahon exits Mankind’s office with a grin on his face. Interesting.

*Match 6: WWF Tag Team Championship: New Age Outlaws vs. Ken Shamrock & Big Bossman **
New Age Outlaws are pretty over as they usually are wherever they go. Anyway, this is just a really dull match. Like really dull. The Outlaws pissed off HBK when they pretended to be joining the Corporation. Now he’s trying to get them to lose the titles but it isn’t working well so far. I don’t know what happens in this match after the first few minutes. It drags on forever. I stopped paying attention to most of it. Some things happen at the end and The Outlaws get the win and retain the tag team titles when HBK fails to do anything about it. I didn’t enjoy this and barely watched it, I guess I’m not a great reviewer. But it was 16 minutes long. The Outlaws are not particularly good in the ring and neither is Bossman. Not enough for a match of this length. 

Before the WWF championship match begins, there was a good video package showing The Rock’s journey to becoming corporate champion. Mankind and Rock (with McMahon) are in the ring and Mankind wants McMahon to say that he never said he quit at Survivor Series. Or else he won’t compete in the match. Now he’s threatening Vince, telling him to get on his knees. Vince ends up saying that The Rock heard him say I Quit and that’s good enough for him. Mankind rips up the contract.

*Match 7: WWF Championship: Mankind vs. The Rock (c) **1/2*
The Rock attacks Mankind from behind. They go to the outside where Mankind hits Rock with the steel steps. Vince gets on the mic and tells the ref to disqualify Mankind if he does anything else like that. The Rock is laid against the announce table and Mankind goes to the middle rope to do an elbow drop but The Rock grabs him by the arm and throws him to the floor. That was really nasty. The Rock takes Cole’s headset and does some trash talking. Mankind grabs a steel chair but the ref stops him and Mankind drops it after being kicked by The Rock. Then Mankind gets DDT’d onto the chair. The Rock rolls him into the ring for a 2 count. Then he hits a Corporate Elbow to a big pop and a nearfall. Despite being a heel, he still gets great face reactions. Mankind comes back with a running neckbreaker and more offense as well as a leg drop below the belt. Vince is telling the ref to disqualify Mankind, but Mankind grabs the ref and piledrives him. Vince tries telling the timekeeper to ring the bell but Mankind comes over and attacks him too. Mankind chases after Vince but The Rock hits him in the back with a chair and then gives him a Rock Bottom in the centre of the ring but the ref is still down. Now The Rock wants Shane to hit Mankind with the belt while The Rock holds him but Shane accidentally hits The Rock. Mankind covers him, another ref runs down to count it but The Rock kicks out at 2 for a pretty good nearfall. They each hit a DDT for 2. Mankind pulls out Mr. Socko and locks in the Mandible Claw. The ref calls for the bell! Mankind is the new champion! 

Vince gets on the mic and says that Mankind won the match but a title can only change hands if the match is won by pinfall or submission and The Rock did not tap or say I Quit, just like Mankind at Survivor Series (and a certain someone else). The Rock is still champion. Mankind gives Vince a Mandible Claw, Shane has to hit him in the back with a chair twice to get him off. So Mankind attacks Shane and the Stooges. Shamrock and Bossman come down to attack Mankind and now Rock joins in. Honestly, it’s a bit of a lame finish however I kinda like it for teasing the Mankind title win. It was a pretty great moment and then an even better one with Vince nullifying the title win. You can’t have Mankind win the title from The Rock a month after he won it and became the top heel. However they wouldn’t want Mankind to lose clean either, and this is also a little better than just a disqualification. As for the actual match, it was a fun brawl in my opinion. Overbooked of course but I’m getting used to that. Also I understand there was a lot of other stuff bookending the match but the fact that the WWF title match got 13 minutes and the boring ass tag team match got 16 minutes is disheartening. And another thing, I get that the Buried Alive match is a big deal but I was still expecting this to go on last, being the WWF title match and all.

*Match 8: Buried Alive match: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin *1/2*
So much wackiness in this feud. Undertaker trying to embalm Austin, then Austin throwing Paul Bearer down a manhole. Ending in Austin being crucified by the Undertaker. Man. So dumb, yet I can’t look away. They start beating each other up straight away in the aisle and brawl near the grave. The go back to the ring and Austin takes control, beating down Undertaker. Then they go to ringside near the announce tables and Taker backdrops him on the floor. Taker has control back in the ring and beats Austin down for a bit. They go back to the grave, Austin punches him and Taker topples down the mound. Fighting on a loose mound of dirt doesn’t look overly safe. Austin throws him in the grave and they drag each other in a couple of times. They fight more in the aisle and head to ringside. Taker grabs a steel chair and smashes Austin in the head. He picks him up and throws him in the ring, but Austin clotheslines him back out then Taker throws Austin back first into the ring post. Michael Cole is saying that the fans have never seen anything like this before. There has already been a buried alive match Cole. The head back to the grave and Taker throws Austin in and starts shovelling in dirt. Austin makes it out and hits Taker twice in the head with a gas can that was there for no reason. He hits a stunner and Taker flops into the grave. Austin throws a wheelbarrow full of dirt in. He then chases away Paul Bearer and continues to the back. Taker gets out, suddenly there is an explosion in the grave and out comes Kane. He beats the Undertaker and then tombstones him and rolls him into the grave. Stone Cold has come out in an excavator and is now telling the operator to dump dirt into the grave. Which is taking a while... a long while. Looks like this isn’t going quite to plan. Anyway, eventually there is an adequate amount of dirt covering Undertaker and Austin has won and keeps his spot in the Rumble. I don’t think I mentioned that, hell I didn’t know it until now. I seem to have a habit of tuning out Michael Cole sometimes. I don’t even remember it being announced on Raw. Unless it wasn’t, I don’t know. Anyway, this match was a little dull in spots but for the most part was an okay, sometimes fun brawl. Going back and forth from the grave to the ring multiple times really didn’t help and the match started out pretty slow. Shame about the finish with the excavator. It was really awkward waiting for the operator to do something. I think they were having some trouble. Even Austin was getting pissed off and impatient. 

Okay, so surprise, surprise, this WWF PPV from 1998 is not a good show. Only a couple of matches were worth watching. The WWF title match was fun, the 3 man tag was also fun and the Owen/Shamrock match was solid. That’s about it. I wouldn’t bother with this show. It’s not the worst show of ’98 but it certainly it’s not good either. *4.5/10*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Great review man, I pretty much agree down the line with what you said.


Speaking of brawling, has everyone pretty much seen the Cena vs Guerrero street fight where they were in a circle of cars? I just saw it for the first time on the "Viva La Raza" Guerrero set. Man that is one entertaining fight, I loved it. Guerrero choking Cena with a seat belt, or smashing his head into a windshield then hitting the windshield washing fluid and spraying it in his face:lmao


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Great review man, I pretty much agree down the line with what you said.
> 
> 
> Speaking of brawling, has everyone pretty much seen the Cena vs Guerrero street fight where they were in a circle of cars? I just saw it for the first time on the "Viva La Raza" Guerrero set. Man that is one entertaining fight, I loved it. Guerrero choking Cena with a seat belt, or smashing his head into a windshield then hitting the windshield washing fluid and spraying it in his face:lmao


That match is all sorts of fun. Eddie pressing a car cigarette lighter against Cena's chest gets me everytime. :lol By the way, I did a review on this match a while back along with their match on Smackdown for the U. S title in El Paso. Here is the link to the review if you're interested; http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18965833-post14815.html


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words.

I think I will have to check out that Cena/Eddie match. I didn't even know about it until now but it sounds hilariously awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie/Cena parking lot brawl is tremendous fun. Chavo's somewhat randomly epic return during the match is like, his career highlight for me. Best thing he ever did .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lord Flvcko said:


> That match is all sorts of fun. Eddie pressing a car cigarette lighter against Cena's chest gets me everytime. :lol By the way, I did a review on this match a while back along with their match on Smackdown for the U. S title in El Paso. Here is the link to the review if you're interested; http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18965833-post14815.html



Great review man! The cigarette lighter is great, and Tazz on commentary puts the match over very well. I never did understand the whole lawn mower thing. What exactly was Cena planning to with it? Was he gonna chop Eddie up with it Dead Alive style? Was he going to choke with with the rip chord? Smash his head into the handle? Eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti? Or was he just gonna ram him with it? If so what would that even do? But I loved the spot all the same because of how goofy it was. I love the trunk spot where Cena tosses Eddie in the trunk and slams it shut. I wouldn't consider this a match to be taken super seriously, but on a fun scale, it earns the full ***** stars for me. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rey/Chavo at GAB a year later is his real career highlight, BY FAR.

Mankind/Owen is all sorts of party. PPV quality right there. I'm wondering if Owen actually was better than Bret :hmm:

Moving on to Vince Russo's crush - Mankind/Rock in a *Pink Slip On A Pole match* 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eddie vs Cena parking lot brawl is totally awesome. Cena is pretty good at parking lot brawls as the JBL match from Great American Bash 08 is even better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Do we ever talk about videogames out here?

Screw it, imma lay a discussion line - SVR 2006 or 2007?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Since we have an entire section for wrestling game, we tend not to bother discussing them here, this being a DVD/Match/Show discussion thread and all... .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn. I wanted to start a GM Mode discussion 

Whatevs. More Foley discussion then :durant3


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i need something to watch


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Shawn/Razor- SS 95 ****1/4, great match between this 2, this had more drama than their WM Ladder Match


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Shawn/Razor- SS 95 ****1/4, great match between this 2, this had more drama than their WM Ladder Match



The only thing I think that keeps this from being remembered as better than their WMX match was the fact that both were babyfaces and Vince told them they could not use the ladder as a weapon. They actually do it a bit towards then end with Vince selling it on commentary as being "accidental" fpalm . If they were allowed to just go all out with the ladder as a weapon spots I think people would rate this one higher than WMX. 

That said, I agree with you, I think they built the drama in SS 95' better, and it's nice and long. Plus that suplex Razor gives Shawn off the ring apron were his leg swings over and clips the guard rail??? :mark: :mark: :mark: That spot is awesome.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'ts pouring outside, so I need some 96-97 foley recs


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Shawn/Razor yesterday. Excellent match, and Razor totally uses the ladder as a weapon.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*CM Punk Vs John Cena - Superstar Of The Year Semi-Finals - Raw 14.12.09*

Punk just won the "shock of the year" Slammy for retiring Jeff Hardy earlier in the year. Now he gets to job to Cena in under 10 minutes. Yey!!!

The night before this Raw, Sheamus won the WWE Title from Cena when Cena fell through a table. Lawler calls it the shocker of the year. Except... Punk JUST won the Slammy for that moments ago. Fuck me Lawler is retarded.

Well this was... worse than I expected. Lasted about 2 fucking minutes. Punk attempts a GTS, Cena hits a sweet counter into the STF and... Punk taps. Bullshit.

*Rating: DUD*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Just watched Shawn/Razor yesterday. Excellent match, and Razor totally uses the ladder as a weapon.


*They actually do it a bit towards then end with Vince selling it on commentary as being "accidental" . If they were allowed to just go all out with the ladder as a weapon spots I think people would rate this one higher than WMX.*

I know Razor and Shawn both use it a bit, but Shawn has said himself Vince placed that restriction on them when they booked the match. I LOVE the SS 95' match, all I was saying is that more people might view it as being on par with their WM10 effort if they were just allowed to go out and do whatever they wanted. Personally, I don't think their WM10 match is necessarily better than SS 95', I just think their WM match was so revolutionary at the time and stole the show on the biggest stage in wrestling that people view it as being better. By the way, by my count, WM 10 had 2 certifiable ***** matches(Bret vs Owen; HBK vs Razor), has any other Wrestlemania had 2 rock solid 5-star matches? I can't think of any off the top of my head. Wrestlemania x-7 maybe if you consider Rock vs Austin and TLC2 to both be 5-stars. I'm not sure if I see them that way, though I haven't seen either in a while. Or even Triple H vs Taker (I'd give that bout **** personally).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No WM has 2 ***** matches for me. In fact... there have only been 3 ***** matches in WM for me.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> I'ts pouring outside, so I need some 96-97 foley recs


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> No WM has 2 ***** matches for me. In fact... there have only been 3 ***** matches in WM for me.


Really? Tough man to impress I guess hahaha.

Care to elaborate on what those matches are? You can't be thinking of the Roddy Piper vs Mr. T boxing match I'm sure, and didn't Hogan fight Bundy in a steel cage for the 3rd main event? That couldn't have been 5 stars unless it was just an epic spectacle.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (WM 25)
Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin - ***** (WM 13)
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (WM 26)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@Rah thanks mn gonna check out that austin match

There is only 3 borderline 4 ***** for me also, #4 being hbk/razor wm 10, it may be my favorite match of all time tied with hbk/flair wm 24, and I look at all of the attributes that match has to offer, but I'm not sure if I can go the full five but its very very close


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (WM 25)
> Bret Hart Vs Steve Austin - ***** (WM 13)
> The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** (WM 26)


Oh man I read your first post wrong, I thought you had said WrestleMania 2 had 2 5-star matches and I was wondering what in the world those could have been.

You won't see any arguments from me there on your choice of 5-star matches. Bret vs Stone Cold is my favorite match ever. I honestly would have to give the Triple Threat Benoit vs Michaels vs Triple H 5-Stars as well, that match still blows me away every time I see it. Did you not think that highly of that one?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gave it ****1/4. Its great, but not ***** perfect or anything for me.

As for WM 2, the highest rated match for that show is *** .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The WM Three-Way from 2004 was ****1/2 for me, but the Backlash rematch was better, ****3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I struggle to sit through the BL rematch. Honestly couldn't throw a rating at it or anything as I haven't seen it in full since like, 2008.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Have any of you seen the 3 way I.C. match at Payback with Miz, Barret, and Axel? I really have zero interest in any of those guys, but that match pleasantly surprised me. A solid ***1/4* effort. 3rd best bout of the night after Punk vs Jericho and Ziggler vs Del Rio.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I remember after wathcing it live, that I gave a ***1/2 rating, but after I have rewatched the PPV last week, I can only give a ***. Not enought Barret


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No chance in hell I'd ever, EVER sit through Barrett, Miz and Axel match. Make it a 4 way with Kofi and it'd be the dullest match on paper that WWE could give me right now.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The match was quite decent, Cal. ALso, rewatched Cena/Ryback from the same PPV 2, still a **1/2 in my book


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It could technically be a ***** match and even if I DID watch it I'd likely hate it anyway because those are my least favourite guys in the company right now and I would be extremely biased against them and the match . If WWE fired them today I seriously wouldn't notice they were gone. They add NOTHING, and I do mean absolutely 100% NOTHING to any of the shows they are on. Nothing at all. No positives from any of them. They are all below average wrestlers with dull and forced personalities and in 2 of their cases extremely overrated mic work which is absolutely nothing special. They should go to TNA and form a stable with Chavo Guerrero Jr.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> No chance in hell I'd ever, EVER sit through Barrett, Miz and Axel match. Make it a 4 way with Kofi and it'd be the dullest match on paper that WWE could give me right now.


On paper =/ reality 

I mean, if things were as good/bad as they looked "on paper", there would've been so, so many differences in matches throughout history :agree:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Btw, who's the real Wrestling Machine: Kurt Angle or *Joz*?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What's a Joz?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

He means Jozi. The South African who jumped the barricade and "attacked" Orton.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, what Rah said. His "promo" had me in stitches :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH/HBK/BENOIT wm 20 is that much thats just missing that ONE thing from makinf it *****, idk what it is tbh, I can never get through the BL rematch for some reason


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> It could technically be a ***** match and even if I DID watch it I'd likely hate it anyway because those are my least favourite guys in the company right now and I would be extremely biased against them and the match . If WWE fired them today I seriously wouldn't notice they were gone. They add NOTHING, and I do mean absolutely 100% NOTHING to any of the shows they are on. Nothing at all. No positives from any of them. They are all below average wrestlers with dull and forced personalities and in 2 of their cases extremely overrated mic work which is absolutely nothing special. They should go to TNA and form a stable with Chavo Guerrero Jr.



I agree completely, that's why I said I have ZERO interest in any of them and that I was pleasantly surprised the match didn't suck all kinds of suck, and was actually decent. 

Actually, I'm probably overrating it because I was so shocked to find myself enjoying ANYTHING with them involved in it.

Anyway, enough talk about those clowns, how about someone gives me a list of their top 5 favorite brawls so I have something to watch when I get home from work :agree:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Some fun brawls:

Undertaker/Festus
Haku/Giant
Von Erichs/Freebirds 7/4/84
Big Show/Undertaker No Mercy 2008
Vader/Stan Hansen

Not necessarily the best at all, but just some easy to watch ones that probably won't be mentioned.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> On paper =/ reality
> 
> I mean, if things were as good/bad as they looked "on paper", there would've been so, so many differences in matches throughout history :agree:.


Ain't that the truth:agree:

Taker and Austin are 2 of my top 10 fave guys, but I really never enjoyed their matches. You'd think they would put on 4 or 5 star classics but it just never really worked out that way. I still haven't seen all of them so their might be a hidden gem in there, but you get the gist


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This is actually good.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The opening four way tag team match at Mania 13 was bad. The Blackjacks got eliminated via a disqualification which I could understand considering it kept them strong (they're only other defeat was due to a reverse decision) but the elimination of Lafon and Furnas was weird. There was a dumb moment in the match where both the Headbangers were forced to wrestle each other but why would two tag team members be allowed in the same ring when the aim of the match is to eliminate your opponent? Headbangers won this match and will face Owen and the British Bulldog for the tag team titles. It's a shame it wasn't Lafon and Furnas as I thought their previous matches with the Hart Foundation were pretty solid. Not to mention that the feud never concluded as Lafon and Furnas won the last tag team match by a disqualification. 

Now onto the next match between Rocky Maivia vs the Sultan :rock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just skip the first 3 or 4 matches at WM 13 lol. Seriously.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH/Sheamus wm 26 is very solid, its funny how the best HHH matches nobody talks about ever


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Skip everything that's not Austin/Bret or the Chicago Street Fight out of that show. About 2 hours and 15 min. of your life that you'd save.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> HHH/Sheamus wm 26 is very solid, its funny how the best HHH matches nobody talsk about ever


Seriously didn't much care for that one, but I liked the Street Fight, which seems to be the opposite opinion of others. I'll also admit that I love gimmick matches. 

My issue with the Extreme Rules Street Fight is that it seemed liked they forgot at times that it was a street fight. Most of it seemed like a regular wrestling match. Kendo stick made it's regular appearance.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

agree to disagree, I may be the opposite of you, I prefer regular normal matches, not a big gimmick guy unless its ec or hiac done right.

watching cena/sheamus tables


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Skip everything that's not Austin/Bret or the Chicago Street Fight out of that show. About 2 hours and 15 min. of your life that you'd save.


Tag titles match is great too. And the main event is watchable albeit longer than it ever, ever should have been .

That being said I'd happily watch Sid/Undertaker in an hour iron man match over HBK/Bret .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Has anyone here seen Foley's stand-up comedy shows? Trust me, if you haven't you should. INSERT FOLEY SMILEY HERE.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Meh, I'll just watch every match on the card. Might as well do that since I'm not going to watching the show in 3 straight hours (or close to 3 hours). 

The best thing about the IC title match was Honky Tonk man and Jerry Lawler's commentary.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Tried looking for the part of Taker/Sid where Sid allegedly shit his pants. Looking for Takers stink face. No luck. But yea that was the funnest part of that match for me...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KidCharlamagne said:


> Tried looking for the part of Taker/Sid where Sid allegedly shit his pants. Looking for Takers stink face. No luck. But yea that was the funnest part of that match for me...


The alleged "shit his pants" incident was from a house show, not WM, and wasn't a result of a Tombstone or anything but because Sid was ill. Undertaker just happened to Tombstone him afterwards .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Undertaker 2004 pack just added on XWT, Cal. Thought I'd let you know in case you haven't seen it already.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Undertaker 2004 pack just added on XWT, Cal. Thought I'd let you know in case you haven't seen it already.


Ooooo, definitely gonna get it for the Cena match alone lol.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Ooooo, definitely gonna get it for the Cena match alone lol.


Cena didn't wrestle at Unforgiven 2004, did he? Sure he was on SD! at that point as he feuded with Carlito at the end of that year as the US Champ. 

You thinking Cena vs. Angle at Unforgiven '05, or Cena vs. Edge at '06? Unforgiven 2004 was Raw-only with Orton vs. HHH, Kane vs. HBK, Jericho vs. Christian in a Ladder match etc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

UNDERTAKER not Unforgiven, lol.

And speaking of Taker in 04, he only had 16 matches according to profightdb. Heard he also wrestled Eddie at some house shows, sucks we will likely never see it. Out of the 16, only 5 or so are really worth checking out tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TheeJayBee said:


> Cena didn't wrestle at Unforgiven 2004, did he? Sure he was on SD! at that point as he feuded with Carlito at the end of that year as the US Champ.
> 
> You thinking Cena vs. Angle at Unforgiven '05, or Cena vs. Edge at '06? Unforgiven 2004 was Raw-only with Orton vs. HHH, Kane vs. HBK, Jericho vs. Christian in a Ladder match etc.


What?


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

LOL oh shit, skimming and scanning and I thought it read Unforgiven 04. Ignore me


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Mysterio vs Kanyon from Smackdown 6/19/03 is REALLY, really good. The match went on longer than I expected it to be and it's solid stuff all around. Real good gem.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/sheamus tlc was pretty good, I'm digging 09-10 sheamus


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> cena/sheamus tlc was pretty good, I'm digging 09-10 sheamus




Loved this sheamus. 

Serious question: 

How shocked were you guys when sheamus defeated Cena at tlc? I couldn't believe it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Loved this sheamus.
> 
> Serious question:
> 
> How shocked were you guys when sheamus defeated Cena at tlc? I couldn't believe it.


Man, I will never forget what happened that night. My stream froze literally 5 seconds before Cena went through the table. When I refreshed, the next thing I knew Sheamus was holding the title and I was like wtf.

The next day, speculations began about it being an 'accident' lol. That match must have been a dirtsheet's dream come true.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wasnt watching then stopped after 07 and came back during captial punishment in 2011, I assume it was a shock ?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Loved this sheamus.
> 
> Serious question:
> 
> How shocked were you guys when sheamus defeated Cena at tlc? I couldn't believe it.


To be honest, I wasn't shocked that he was given the WWE title. There was no one at the time that I saw taking the title off Cena besides Sheamus. They also kinda hinted towards a Sheamus title win during the build up to the Tables match at TLC 09 anyways. So yeah, I wasn't shocked at all.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I was shocked when Sheamus won. I was more surprised though when he won it back in June 2010. He just wasn't catching on enough for another run.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I wrote a whole sentence about Foley/Bossman after seeing it on the Ladder Match 2 bluray when I got it:
> 
> "short, fun, nothing more. HBK on commentary rating Foley's spots was the best part"


(Y)



WOOLCOCK said:


> Best match Big Bossman has ever been privy to is Vader/The Boss from Spring Stampede '94. Absolutely tremendous slugfest between two nasty bastards. Feels like a prelude to the sort of Sheamus/Show slugfests we were treated to, alongside some well timed bigger spots. Very overlooked sub 15 minute match and a WCW gem.


It's Spring Stampede '94, after all. That's a show which WWF/WWE fans should be praising along side top to bottom grand events like SummerSlam '02 or Extreme Rules 2012.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Sheamus winning the title was a nice moment. That was a period where WWE was trying to push new main eventers as well. Sheamus, Miz and Swagger all became new world champions. It's a shame Wade didn't become champion that year


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> 
> 
> It's Spring Stampede '94, after all. That's a show which WWF/WWE fans should be praising along side top to bottom grand events like SummerSlam '02 or Extreme Rules 2012.


Oh hell yes....

Flair/Steamboat
Sting/Rude
Austin/Muta
Pillman/Regal

Damn good PPV


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spring Stampede 1994 is GOATworthy, and occurred in the GOAT city as well. What's scary is that it could have been even better if Austin/Muta and Sting/Rude didn't disappoint. Scores real high on the CAL SCALE!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Spring Stampede 1994 is GOATworthy, and occurred in the GOAT city as well. What's scary is that it could have been even better if Austin/Muta and Sting/Rude didn't disappoint. Scores real high on the CAL SCALE!


Austin/Muta was solid I just hated the finish. 

Sting/Rude was good but toooooo short. 

Flair/Steamboat was fantastic....weird. 

What the hell is a CAL scale?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Spring Stampede 94 has to be my favourite show ever. I haven't even watched the whole thing but Flair/Steamboat, Rhodes/Buck, Vader/Bossman and Cactus & Payne/Nasty Boys are all completely fantastic. Pillman/Regal was good/very good IIRC. IDR Sting/Rude. Don't think I've seen Austin/Muta but I wouldn't be surprised if Austin could carry Muta to something (will I get heat for saying that? Honestly I kind of think Mutoh/Muta is possibly the most overrated wrestler ever. Well at least "Muta" could add to matches via his gimmick, so that's something). Hell, it could suck and the first four matches I mentioned would still make Stampede 94 my favourite show ever. WCW had some unreal multi-great-match shit happening on PPV and Clashes in 1994.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm growing incredibly tired of the year 1999 in the WWF at the moment. I'm in the build up to Unforgiven, and I've just watched the Smackdown where Triple H has to win three out of five matches to qualify for the Unforgiven 6-Pack Challenge. It was a good episode of Smackdown with some decent but short matches - of course, it being the Attitude Era it features a lot of promo segments and angles - like HHH vs. Kane in an Inferno match, but it's all starting to wear on me.

I might take a break and see how I feel, then just move on to the year 2000 if I don't want to finish 1999. Definitely the worst year of the Attitude Era.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Oh god yeah take a break, if you don't Unforgiven 99 may turn you to self harm, holy shiiiiiit is it bad (Kennel From Hell is actually the Match Of The Night by far (**1/2).


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I think that's what put me off. Having watched it before, I know how bad it is and I don't think I want to put myself through it again xD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Austin/Muta was solid I just hated the finish.
> 
> Sting/Rude was good but toooooo short.
> 
> ...


The CAL SCALE is my invention . Basically when reviewing shit I turn STARZ~! into points, and give the event an overall score at the end. This is the scale:

NO = -1 (basically if a match is so unwatchable on paper its gets a NO rating and minus 1 point for the overall show)
DUD-* = 0
*1/4-** = 0.5
**1/4-**3/4 = 1
***-***1/4 = 2
***1/2 = 3
***3/4 = 4
**** = 5
****1/4 = 6
****1/2 = 7
****3/4 = 8
***** = 9
MOTY/GOAT = 2 (depends on what you are reviewing/what list you might be coming up with. I used this for my RR and WM reviews, so the GOAT RR and WM matches each got an additional 2 points to bump up the score of which ever show they were on)


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

ATF said:


> *1 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 18: Badd Blood*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wat


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wasn't that great Nasty Boys-Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne brawl on Spring Stampede 94' as well? Coulda swore it was.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

cjack828 said:


> Wasn't that great Nasty Boys-Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne brawl on Spring Stampede 94' as well? Coulda swore it was.


SuperBrawl .


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Not sure if people know about this, but if you ever want to see the star ratings Meltzer gives to matches, http://profightdb.com is a very good resource.

Back on topic, I just watched Ziggler vs. Del Rio from Payback (missed that and Kane vs. Ambrose because of dinner), and that was AWESOME storytelling. Del Rio and Dolph both did excellent jobs in their respective roles.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

cjack828 said:


> Wasn't that great Nasty Boys-Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne brawl on Spring Stampede 94' as well? Coulda swore it was.


Yep. Cal's right saying they had one at SuperBrawl, but that was less of a brawl and more of a tag match. The nutty fight with shovels and tables and Jack taking that insane floor splat was at Spring Stampede.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their SS made didn't make my list then lol .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> You'd have to include one WarGames, you'd think. 91 or 92 I guess. Literally any Vader match is good enough to be on there. I say the strap match because not enough people realise it's amazing and probably the best gimmick match in the US from the 90s-onward other than Austin/Hart. Hell, throw at least two or three Vadermatches on there - amazing, amazing match-up. A Cactus match would be good; have they released the 1991 FCA (or whatever) one on DVD yet? More people need to see that. Sting/Austin 1/1/94 is awesome and should be on there. I think they have another really good one, as well. Sting/Regal GAB96 rules, and even if it's a TOTAL Regal match they should put that on there. Then there's Sting/DDP 4/26/99 (and one in 98 IIRC), Sting/Flair 4/12/99 (and others, but this honestly may be my favourite Sting/Flair) is worth including. I would say Sting/Benoit 9/20/99 is a MUST, but that won't be on there no matter what. Sting/Meng GAB95 would HAVE to be put on there. Throw in some Dangerous Alliance tags, a Muta match, the fucking terrific Flair/Sting v. Muta/Dick Slater tag, some Four Horsemen stuff, and that supposedly amazing Windham match I don't think I've seen and that's a good start.
> 
> If a Sting set should do anything it should shut up the 'Sting sucks' people who have actually not watched a whole lot of Sting and are assuming or shit. It might not stop them from thinking he isn't all that good (which I still don;t agree with), but at least they would have actually watched some more Sting. I don't know why but he's been put in that Luger boat sometimes of 'people think he sucks be he's actually really good'. The Rock is unfairly in that boat now, too. I miss when only Cal hated him.


I actually made a little Sting matchlist for a friend of mine, just a little custom comp too for him, some matches are questionable lol, but included them to pad the list out a bit:



Sting/Luger vs The Steiner Brothers - Superbrawl I
Sting/Luger/Ric Flair/Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/'Sting' - Fall Brawl 1996: Wargames
Sting/Nikita Koloff vs Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard - Great American Bash 1988
Sting/Ric Flair vs Terry Funk/The Great Muta - Halloween Havoc 1989

Sting vs Ric Flair - Clash Of The Champions I
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Clash Of The Champions II
Sting vs Cactus Jack - Beach Blast 1992
Sting/Ric Flair vs Vader/Rick Rude – Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994

Sting vs Hulk Hogan vs DDP vs Ric Flair - Spring Stampede 1999
Sting/Luger vs Steiner Brothers vs Harlem Heat - Clash Of The Champions 1996
Sting/Steamboat vs Steve Austin/Ric Flair - WCW Saturday Night 1994
Sting vs DDP - Nitro 26.04.1999 

Sting vs Goldberg – Nitro 14.09.1998
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - Nitro 20.11.1995
Sting/British Bulldog/Dustin Rhodes vs Vader/Sid/Rick Rude - Clash Of The Champions 1993
Sting vs Lord Steven Regal - WCW Great American Bash 1996
Sting vs Meng - The Great American Bash 1995

Sting vs Lex Luger SuperBrawl II (1992)
Sting vs Rick Rude - Clash 18.11.1992 
Sting vs Scott Steiner - Nitro 27.05.1996 
Sting/Luger vs Road Warriors - Superbrawl 96
Sting/Muta vs Stenier Brothers - NJPW Supershow 1992

Sting vs Lex Luger vs Ric Flair - Starrcade 1995 
Sting/Macho Man vs Avalanche/Big Bubba - Superbrawl 1995 
Sting vs Big Van Vader - Great American Bash 1992 
Sting vs Kensuke Sasaki - Starrcade 1995

Sting vs The Great Muta - 21.03.1991 (Japan Version) 
Starrcade 1991 Battlebowl Battle-Royal 
Sting vs Vader - Starrcade 1992 
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Road Warriors - Starrcade 1988 
Sting/Luger/Windham vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Main Event 03.04.1988 

Sting vs Ric Flair - Great American Bash 1990 
Sting vs Great Muta - Great American Bash 1989 
Sting vs The Giant - Slamboree 1996 
Sting/Booker T vs The Road Warriors - (Chicago Street Fight) Uncensored 1996 

Sting vs Sid Vicious - Halloween Havoc 90
Sting/British Bulldog vs Vader/Sid (19/9/1993)
Sting vs Jeff Jarrett - TNA Bound for Glory 2006
Sting vs Kurt Angle - TNA Bound For Glory 2007
Sting/Brian Pillman/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner vs Ric Flair/Larry Zbyszko/Barry Windham/Sid Vicious. - Wrestle War 1991: Wargames

Sting vs Bret Hart - Halloween Havoc 1998 
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - SuperBrawl 1998
Sting vs Kevin Nash vs DDP vs Goldberg - Nitro 1999
Sting vs Bobby Eaton - Saturday Night 16.10.1993
Sting/Dave Boy Smith vs Harlem Heat - Saturday Night 28.08.1993

Sting vs Vader - Superbrawl III (Strap match)
Sting/The Giant vs The Outsiders - Slamboree 1998
Sting vs Rick Rude - Spring Stampede 1994
Sting/Scott Steiner vs Jeff Jarrett/Booker T - Nitro 2000

Sting vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 1999
Sting/Luger vs The Outsiders - Hog Wild 1996
Sting vs Vader vs Guardian Angel - Fall Brawl 1994
Sting vs Dean Malenko - Nitro 1995
Sting vs. Ric Flair - Nitro 1999

Sting/Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude/Steve Austin - Clash 21.01.1992
Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat vs Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko /Rick Rude (WCWSN 2/22/92)
Sting/Marcus Bagwell/Rick/Scott Steiner vs Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Cactus Jack (Pro 2/22/92)
Sting/Marcus Bagwell vs Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko (Pro 2/1/92)
Sting’s Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance - (Wargames) (Wrestlewar 1992)
Sting/Lex Luger vs The Steiner Brother vs Harlem Heat - Nitro 1996

Sting vs Cactus Jack (Submit or Surrender - WCW 19.11.1991)
Sting vs Bret Hart - Nitro 1999
Sting vs Bret Hart - Nitro 1999 (Hardcore Match)
Sting vs AJ Styles - Bound For Glory 2009
Sting vs Steve Austin - WCW Saturday Night 1994

Sting/The Steiner Brothers vs Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton - WCW Worldwide 10/03/1992
Sting/Randy Savage/Lex Luger vs The Outsiders (Bash at the Beach 1996)
Sting/Hulk Hogan/Randy Savage/Lex Luger vs The Dungeon of Doom (War Games Match Fall Brawl 1995)

Sting vs Abyss - TNA Genesis 2006
Sting vs Ron Simmons - Power Hour 1988
Sting/Dr Death vs Terry Funk/Terry Gordy - Power Hour 1989
Sting vs Great Muta - Power Hour 1989
Sting vs Kensuke Sasaki - Japan 1995
Sting/Keiji Mutoh vs. The Road Warriors - Japan 1996

Sting/Steve Williams vs Erik Watts/Jushin Liger - Starrcade 1992
Sting/The Steiners/Ivan Koloff vs Vader/Rick Rude/Jake Roberts/Super Invader - Clash of the Champions XX (1992)
Sting/Ron Simmons vs Vader/Rick Rude (WCWSN 1992)
Sting vs Samoa Joe - Bound For Glory 2008
Sting/Dustin Rhodes/Brian Pillman vs Rick Rude/Steve Austin/Paul Orndorff w/Rob Parker - Thundercage (Superbrawl IV)
Ric Flair & Sting vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 09/12/1989

Sting/Dustin Rhodes/Cactus Jack vs Big Van Vader/Paul Orndorff/Barry Windham - (Thunderdome Cage) (1993)
Sting/Muta vs Vader/Chono - (Philadelphia PA, 29/12/1992, handheld)
Sting vs Barry Windham - Clash of the Champions III
Sting vs Sid - Halloween Havoc 1993 
Sting/Barry Windham vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard vs (WWW 1/16/88)
Sting/Luger vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard vs (Crockett Cup 4/23/88)
Sting vs Barry Windham (Philly Handheld 9.10.88)

Sting vs Ric Flair - Clash Of The Champions XXVII 1994
Sting/Hulk Hogan/Goldberg vs Kevin Nash/Sid Vicious/Rick Steiner - Nitro 9th August 1999
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - Starrcade 1997 (Included for historical value only - up yours Hogan)

Sting vs Scott Hall - Uncensored 1998
Sting vs Ric Flair - Starrcade 1989
Sting vs Hiroshi Hase - WCWNJPW Supershow 1993


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Oh hell yes....
> 
> Flair/Steamboat
> Sting/Rude
> ...





Callamus said:


> Their SS made didn't make my list then lol .



Oh man Cal if you haven't seen that one and enjoy some good brawling you should check it out. Sags busts a pool cue over Jack's head to start the match, and it just gets crazier from there. There is no sembelence of tag team wrestling in it just 4 guys slugging it out around the ring and up and down the aisle. Maxx Payne tosses Knobbs through a souvenir table (back when that was still a semi-original spot) and Jack takes an ungodly fall off that elevated ramp WCW used to have and splats right on the concrete (I'm not kidding, you litterally hear a *splat* noise when he hits). Then, instead of just trying to pin him, Knobbs comes up and smashes Jack in the face with a snow shovel. After that the Nasty's get the 1-2-3. It's only around 10-15 minutes but it's sure fun.(Y)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It might've been because my stream was absolutely horrible, but Punk/Jericho from Payback was much, much better on my second viewing. Excellent stuff


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have seen that tag match, I just didn't think much to it. Preferred their other match, and the insane brawl with Sullivan instead of Payne.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> It might've been because my stream was absolutely horrible, but Punk/Jericho from Payback was much, much better on my second viewing. Excellent stuff


I totally agree. Everyone is talking about Ziggler vs Del Rio from Payback and I personally preferred Punk vs Jericho. I'm not a big Punk fan but I'll admit to being a HUGE mark for Jericho, so that might have skewed me a little, because I'm not big on Zig Zag or especially Del Rio.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Went through some stuff on Amazon.com, and some idiot placed WM 20 as the worst PPV ever :| 

Like, the fucking hell. It's not even close. Great American Bash 1991 was infinitely worse. King Of The Ring 1995 was infinitely worse. Heroes Of Wrestling was BILLIONS of infinity worse.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Went through some stuff on Amazon.com, and some idiot placed WM 20 as the worst PPV ever :|
> 
> Like, the fucking hell. It's not even close. Great American Bash 1991 was infinitely worse. King Of The Ring 1995 was infinitely worse. Heroes Of Wrestling was BILLIONS of infinity worse.


A Wrestlemania that has 1 ***** match (Triple threat) and 1 **** match (Eddie vs Kurt) as the worst ever? Hmmmmm :side:

What is your preference for best Mania? For me, it's X-7 with X coming up close behind. X-9 would probably be right after those.


As for worst PPV? Whichever one had the "Kennel From Hell" match with Bossman and Al Snow. Nothing tops that in my book for worst match ever. Dogs in a cell humping and shitting all over the place with some sloppy uninspired work in the ring? No thanks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

17 is the best Mania, but 24 is my favourite.

Unforgiven 99 is the show witth the Kennel From Hell, cjack. Tbph, it wasn't even the worst PPV that year (that would be the puke worthy WM 15)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

WRESTLEMANIA 15. BART GUNN vs BUTTER BEAN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> 17 is the best Mania, but 24 is my favourite.
> 
> Unforgiven 99 is the show witth the Kennel From Hell, cjack. Tbph, it wasn't even the worst PPV that year (that would be the puke worthy WM 15)


As bad as Mania 15 was, and it was a complete abomination, one of the worst PPV's I've ever seen, I still did not have to see dogs humping and shitting outside a ring while watching a pathetic attempt at wrestling inside the ring. I think I'm so pissed about that match because I was only 14 when that aired and I spent my hard earned money from mowing lawns/shoveling snow on that *literal* pile of crap PPV. I did not spend my own money on Mania 15. To think, if Shawn Michaels hadn't interfered with the booking, Foley would have ended up in a 3 way dance with Rock and Austin, he might have even saved the match. Regardless, I'd rather watch a match with Foley fighting than Foley reffing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SNOW vs HOLLY vs HOLLY. SABLE vs TORI. TAKER vs BOSSMAN. :taker


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> SNOW vs HOLLY vs HOLLY. SABLE vs TORI. TAKER vs BOSSMAN. :taker


CHYNA TURNING TWICE ON THE SAME NIGHT. I win.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> The CAL SCALE is my invention . Basically when reviewing shit I turn STARZ~! into points, and give the event an overall score at the end. This is the scale:
> 
> NO = -1 (basically if a match is so unwatchable on paper its gets a NO rating and minus 1 point for the overall show)
> DUD-* = 0
> ...












Kidding. Right on man.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker vs Boss Man :mark:

Greatest match in Undertaker's career and it's all because of the man who is big and is a boss! :bigbossman


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lord Flvcko said:


> CHYNA TURNING TWICE ON THE SAME NIGHT. I win.


NEW AGE OUTLAWS IN WRONG AND OPPOSITE MATCHES. Next.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> As for worst PPV? Whichever one had the "Kennel From Hell" match with Bossman and Al Snow. Nothing tops that in my book for worst match ever. Dogs in a cell humping and shitting all over the place with some sloppy uninspired work in the ring? No thanks.


Unforgiven '99  Fuck knows what they were smoking when they came up with that one....


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They were smoking the 1999 PPV's drug, that's what :vince2

Backlash and to a lesser extent St. Valentine's Day Massacre were good, but every other show was a stinkbomb that year.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

What rating do you guys consider to be good? Or does that depend whether a match is main eventing the show or not? For example, would a 3 star main event match be a good match? Perhaps a better example is that a two star match is usually a decent match in a TV show but on a PPV, it's underwhelming.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I've actually just been thinking about that. Does a ***1/2 match early in the PPV mean it's really good, or is a ***1/2 match in the main event make it not so good?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No Mercy 99 was also pretty good depending on how much you like the main event. Don't know which year is worse, 99 or 98.

Smackdown was real good once again. Fandango had the best singles match of his career and the triple threat main event (which included a motivated Orton) were both solid. 2013 has seriously been a top 5 year in SD history.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> What rating do you guys consider to be good? Or does that depend whether a match is main eventing the show or not? For example, would a 3 star main event match be a good match? Perhaps a better example is that a two star match is usually a decent match in a TV show but on a PPV, it's underwhelming.


Expectations play a big part. Let's take the upcoming Summerslam as an example. It has Bryan/Cena and Lesnar/Punk on it, which most people in here think have the potential to be MOTY contenders. If both those matches end up being ***** bouts, then they'll be a lot of disappointment I'm sure. However, if a hypothetical match like Kofi Kingston vs The Miz turned in the same rating, I think most people would be pleasantly surprised because the general consensus is that those guys suck, and I agree. 

Also, people expect better quality matches on a PPV because there's more time allowed per match usually (especially the main events), plus the wrestlers involved can build a match based of the storyline their characters have been involved in during the build up. It's harder to tell a good story in a five minute match on Raw with no build up.

Personally, I consider a rating of ***1/2*+ a watchable, solid match. Like you said though, if PPV main events are getting that rating it's disappointing, but if TV matches are getting that then it's solid. Basically there's a lot of flaws in a generic rating system that's used in this thread a lot, but it is a helpful and easy way to say how much you enjoyed a match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

★★★¾ for the Smackdown main event this week. Awesome match and all three guys have great chemistry with each other.

Watching SummerSlam 2002 now. This show truly is a blast to watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wanna ask you this: were there times where you felt like you wished the WWE used the storylines of their games?

I feel that way about the DOR games. Played DOR 2 for the 1st time in God knows how long, and the story would be PERFECT for the evolution (pun intended) of a new Main Eventer.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Wanna ask you this: were there times where you felt like you wished the WWE used the storylines of their games?


THE RABID WOLVERINE AND THE DEADMAN from SVR 2007!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, the Y2J's road to Wrestlemania from SVR 09 where someone is taunting him with the codes and then he investigates who it is. The funny thing is that in SVR 2010, Orton's road to Wrestlemania came true because he did actually have a triple threat match against Cody and Dibiase at Mania. A lot of HCTP and 'Shut Your Mouth' storylines are based on real life storylines so I guess they don't count. Always loved the faction wars in HCTP though


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> ★★★¾ for the Smackdown main event this week. Awesome match and all three guys have great chemistry with each other.
> 
> Watching SummerSlam 2002 now. This show truly is a blast to watch.


Shawn/HHH and Rock/Brock :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RenegadexParagon said:


> Shawn/HHH and Rock/Brock :mark:


Mysterio/Angle, Benoit/RVD, and even the Un-Americans/Booker T + Goldust tag.

What.An.Event


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Mysterio/Angle, Benoit/RVD, and even the Un-Americans/Booker T + Goldust tag.
> 
> What.An.Event


Indeed.

Best SummerSlam of all time for sure.

On a side note- This years looks pretty damn good. So much potential.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Fandango - ***1/4
Triple Threat - ***3/4

Can you say 2013 is the best year of the PG Era? :rock4 :brock :taker :ziggler3 unk :cena4 rton :dazzler :kane :cody2 :ambrose2 :rollins :reigns :sandow :adr :heyman :HHH2 :henry1 :vince5


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> THE RABID WOLVERINE AND THE DEADMAN from SVR 2007!


lol Benoit's dialogue gets me everytime.

"GET YOUR DAMN HANDS OFF ME"


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I was thinking of ordering the box set for either every Summerslam or every wrestlemania, which would you guys say is the better buy? I already own the undertaker streak box set so I have all his mania matches already


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam has less shitty editions, and benefits for the potential hidden gems, so I'd pick that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks, I think I'm just gonna buy the 3rd volume only since that has 1998-2002 on it and those are the consensus best events. Now I need to find another set or 2 off amazon worth ordering


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

***3/4 for the SD! Triple threat match. DAT ROLLING THUNDER COUNTER! :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I ended up getting the breaking the code Jericho set, bring the pain Brock Lesnar set, hard knocks Chris benoit, and Summeslam 1998-2002, all for less than $80! Stoked


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> ***3/4 for the SD! Triple threat match. DAT ROLLING THUNDER COUNTER! :mark:


Well sorry for ruining your parade but...






Done before. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Well sorry for ruining your parade but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had already seen it and it was still awesome! 

-------

Stopped SummerSlam 02 after Benoit/RVD because I was sleepy. Gonna finish the last three matches tomorrow on the TV screen. Great, great event.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

As far as the wrestling goes 98 was worse than 99. 99 had more great matches and less awful ones. Neither year was great though for the wrestling. Entertainment on the other hand was awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I had already seen it and it was still awesome!
> 
> -------
> 
> Stopped SummerSlam 02 after Benoit/RVD because I was sleepy. Gonna finish the last three matches tomorrow on the TV screen. Great, great event.


Well AFT certainly pissed in MY cheerios I wasn't watching much wwe back then and hadn't seen it before. Shucks


Anyways new topic, which era had the best matches, the golden era of the 80s, the new generation era of the early to mid 90s, the attitude era, the ruthless aggression era, or the pgs era (so far)?

Personally I think I'm gonna have to go with the ruthless aggression era but it's close with attitude and new generation


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ruthless Aggression (thanks to Mr. Benoit) with this current generation at second place. I will say though that I believe that the current era began with Punk's pipebomb.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ruthless Aggression by far. Like funnyfaces said, most of the credit goes to the Rabid Wolverine. I can never get over how good he was.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Ruthless Aggression by far. Like funnyfaces said, most of the credit goes to the Rabid Wolverine. I can never get over how good he was.



Totally agree, I just ordered his hard knocks set I really wish there were more DVD sets for him.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

This is still the PG Era as far as I'm concerned. Nothing has really changed to warrant a birth of a new era. Punk's shoot could have been the start of something special, but we all know how that turned out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Spring Stampede 94 has to be my favourite show ever. I haven't even watched the whole thing but Flair/Steamboat, Rhodes/Buck, Vader/Bossman and Cactus & Payne/Nasty Boys are all completely fantastic. Pillman/Regal was good/very good IIRC. IDR Sting/Rude. Don't think I've seen Austin/Muta but I wouldn't be surprised if Austin could carry Muta to something (will I get heat for saying that? Honestly I kind of think Mutoh/Muta is possibly the most overrated wrestler ever. Well at least "Muta" could add to matches via his gimmick, so that's something). Hell, it could suck and the first four matches I mentioned would still make Stampede 94 my favourite show ever. WCW had some unreal multi-great-match shit happening on PPV and Clashes in 1994.


Muta FUCK. Do people even overrate him? With my fandom it seems I'm in the minority of actually loving the man. Eh, either way that PPV and 1994 WCW on the whole is way too forgotten these days. Some thing WCW was crap immediately once Hogan arrived. (and I guess that means the portion of '94 when he wasn't even around yet...) That's so wrong. 1995 yes. 1994? Hell no.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I the only good that prefers the wrestling from the new gen (including 97) better than the others. I'd actually have the current era high as well


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Damn, the rolling thunder counter was done before? LOL must have missed it then. I snapped when I saw it recently thou. feel like a 2013 fan now. 

Very good triple threat match on SD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bam Bam Bigelow was prevalent in the New Generation era. That earns points with me. Plus Mankind, Vader, Owen, Goldust, & modernized Undertaker. So mostly 1996 is where my fondest memories lie of the 1993 - 1997 period. Or anything also involving Waltman.

And b/c he deserves his own little mention: Evil Doink came to be in the very early New Gen days. Yes, yes, yes, yes x1000.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Evil Doink was the shiz!

Shame they had to ruin him buy being friendly :no:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Without Matt Borne the evilness was negated. Such a lost chance despite the amount we were given.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

WWE is like a really hot woman sometimes, they just tease you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Like Undertaker vs Sting rumors...

FUCK. Glad I didn't believe too much into that one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

did anybody watch smackdown ? any good just got home from a pool party


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd check out the main event triple threat match. Plenty of good spots in that one


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody what'd you think of Sheamus circa 09-10 ? his in-ring work


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2009 he was good on ECW when he actually got the time to show it. His work on RAW in the early days wasn't exactly too special with the aspect of how he was booked. I liked the tables match vs Cena. For a good bit that was his ONLY competitive match. Rest were squashes. Then he had that horrible first match with Orton at the Rumble. He progressed much, much more once the strap was off of him. By the end of the year he was already one of the more consistent members on the RAW brand & ended up having a great series with John Morrison. Their ladder match damn near stole the year with how fantastic it was. I remember him even making me enjoy a long match vs R-Truth to qualify for the KOTR in late 2010. If you're able to do that, you're doing something right.

To tie up my thoughts: he got better without the championship the first time around and became more natural and comfortable as he eased into workhorse mode. Let us not forget he was part of that glorious tag w/Edge vs Cena & Bourne. Another highlight for me in the year of 2010.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is their any match in specific you'd recommend, I know it may be hard, I actually watched the mania with hhh, tables with cena yesterday and enjoyed them alot. That Morrison ladders is awesome as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always been a big fan of the Hell in a Cell match vs Orton. It does hold a dumb spot in it, but it hardly effected the match. Ending is pretty standard "why does Orton do that?" stuff. Outside of that it's a pretty underrated match.

Sheamus vs John Morrison Falls Count Anywhere 9/13/10
Sheamus vs Evan Bourne 7/19/10
Sheamus vs Mark Henry 5/24/10

Also, watch his matches vs Goldust circa 2009. Goldust is the MAN.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea watching the hiac right now its pretty good so far


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Great show all around. Until you get to Undertaker vs Kane...then it becomes 1995 again.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

HHH/Austin - No Mercy 99 - *****

Fun, typical Attitude Era brawl to further the feud, but weak finish


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok match. Goes way too long - as every Attitude Era brawl seemed to do.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Sheamus and Orton, their match before Over the Limit last year was a pretty good one. Their best after HIAC. Can't believe how bad the Royal Rumble match is.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Triple H vs Scott Steiner, Royal Rumble 2003

Rating - HEH/5

:steiner2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Orton before Over The Limit 2012 is a fucking horrid match. Both worked it like total morons.

(N)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Sheamus vs Orton before Over The Limit 2012 is a fucking horrid match. Both worked it like total morons.
> 
> (N)


Could've sworn that a while back you put it in a list of the best TV matches in 2012.  And that was what made me actually go back and watch it since I skipped that show when it first happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never made a top matches of 2012 list. I've spout off a lot of matches from Sheamus I liked on the year. That def isn't one of 'em. Sheamus & Orton had much better with different opponents.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao The ending of Taker/Kane from HIAC '10 felt so out of place. The match itself was so disappointing.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Who are you to doubt THE MAGIC URN?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

This is true. If it can control the Undertaker then I shouldn't be judging it. :argh:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE LIGHT THAT BLINDS


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Always been a big fan of the Hell in a Cell match vs Orton. It does hold a dumb spot in it, but it hardly effected the match. Ending is pretty standard "why does Orton do that?" stuff. Outside of that it's a pretty underrated match.
> 
> *Sheamus vs John Morrison Falls Count Anywhere 9/13/10*
> Sheamus vs Evan Bourne 7/19/10
> ...


Fuck YES. 2010 TV MOTY if Masters/McIntyre never existed.

Speaking of Goldust, am I the only one that liked his match with DiBiase Jr. at Bragging Rights '10?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got plenty I'd take from TV over Sheamus vs Morrison FCA, but it's really good.

Goldust vs Dibiase Jr was one I enjoyed. Thought their match on Superstars some months prior was better overall.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't, really. I mean there are a couple of really good ones yes (Ziggler/Masters, Orton/Edge/Jericho, Cena & Bourne/Sheamus & Edge), but I'd take Sheamus/Morrison over those rather easily.

I'm about to watch a video of a 1996 house show, that goes near 30 minutes and depicts Mankind & Goldust vs Taker & (ugh) Sid :mark:


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

CODY


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't have even mentioned that triple threat as a contender. Stuff like Gallows vs Archer, Regal vs Goldust from August, & Christian/Kane vs Regal/Jackson all come up as some top matches. Then there are the obvious ones like Christian vs McIntyre series, Punk vs Mysterio from Feb, & Dolph vs Masters which was my favorite match from Superstars in all of 2010. McIntyre vs Masters is a very close #2. I do really like Sheamus vs Morrison. I just know it isn't #1 or #2 for me on the year. It could be a lot higher than I think though. I should watch it again.

KENNY


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

_ANDREW (that's me)_ 

Forgot about Punk/Rey, that was pretty sweet. Rey/Kidd, Christian/Zeke Extreme Rules and Jericho/Goldust were awwesome as well.

Taker & Sid/Mankind & Goldust 10/25/1996 - ***3/4. Very intense, methodical and hard-hitting. Not bad for a house show. Mankind/Goldust next


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All top choices for sure. Damn I adore 2010 so much. Look at all the quality that was given. Plus WM 26 has always been one of my personal favorite WM's. I'm talking like top three with 19 & 7. Then most of the PPVs I look back fondly on. Money in the Bank - my heart is stolen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

PPV's in 2010 are overlooked. Elimination Chamber, MITB, TLC... and Hell In A fucking Cell. That was such an amazing show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Indeed. I know the main event left a lot to be desired, however the rest of HIAC was really, really good. Even the Natalya vs McCool match was fine till the abrupt finish. Quality event. Really dig it. I'm not too big on Elimination Chamber though. That's kind of a one match show at the heart of it. Smackdown Elimination Chamber is a really good match at least. I'd say replace Elimination Chamber with Night of Champions. Or Survivor Series b/c the first half of that show is GREAT. The second half never happened...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Elimination Chamber is a personal favourite of mine. I though the Raw Chamber was decent, and Miz/MVP was a country mile better than the Rumble one. I'm also a fan of McIntyre/Kane.

NOC, forgot about that one. Survivor Series is badass. Ziggler/Kaval was just damn... and then Kane/Edge shows up. God. 

Also, SummerSlam's 2nd half was excellent, and Fatal 4-Way and Extreme Rules were no slouch either. Royal Rumble and Bragging Rights were meh, but still had cool stuff - Rumble had Christian/Zeke and imo one of the best Rumbles ever; Bragging Rights had the Elimination Tag, Goldust/DiBiase and *Bryan/Ziggler*. Even the only DUD, Over The Limit, had Punk/Rey, Cena/Batista and Hart Dynasty/JeriMiz.

*20fucking10.*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2010 is such a blind spot for me. Year abroad and dwindling interest after Wrestlemania being the main culprits. It would be cool to go back and watch the entire PPV year I suppose but I'm just not all that fussed about it right now. Post Mania outside the Nexus stuff and I'm drawing almost a complete blank.


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Speaking of blind spots, I have absolutely ZERO recollection of what happened in the Fed in 1997 (aside from Montreal, but I learned of that a few years later). Can someone be so kind to recommend some matches from that year?


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

SpookshowTony said:


> Speaking of blind spots, I have absolutely ZERO recollection of what happened in the Fed in 1997 (aside from Montreal, but I learned of that a few years later). Can someone be so kind to recommend some matches from that year?


Well let's see

Hart/Austin from Mania 13 of course
Undertaker/Mankind from Revenge Of The Taker is the best match the two of them ever had together
Can't go wrong with any match from Canadian Stampede
Cactus Jack/Triple H from Raw is great (make sure to get the pre-match stuff too)
Mankind/Triple H Cage Match from Summerslam is rather damn good
The Final Four match (Hart Vs Undertaker Vs Austin Vs Vader) is the best four man match ever


Oh yeah and FUCKING UNDERTAKER/HBK HELL IN A CELL.

That's me just skimming the surface, 97's one of the all round best years for the company quality wise.

And then there's that time Vader fucked up Ken Shamrock


----------



## SpookshowTony (Dec 9, 2012)

Craig said:


> Well let's see
> 
> *Hart/Austin from Mania 13 of course*
> *Undertaker/Mankind from Revenge Of The Taker is the best match the two of them ever had together*
> ...



Fucking hell, such a brain fart with the bold. I'm such an idiot. fpalm

Thanks Craig, but I should have been more specific with my post about match recs from Raw that year.

I'll check out the ones I didn't bold. (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Out of curiosity: Punk/Kane/Bryan '12 or Show/Cena/Angle '04?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

1997 is the GOAT year in wwe


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

You wanna talk about blind spots? I barely remember anything from:

Raw 2003 (Can't remember anything specifically. HHH was champ most of the year, feuded with Steiner and Goldberg... and that's all I got off the top of my head)

SD 2006 (King Booker was champ, Mysterio was champ and won the Rumble... and that's it outside of Taker stuff)

2011 as a whole for stuff pre-Punk shoot except Rock coming back and Orton/Christian



> Out of curiosity: Punk/Kane/Bryan '12 or Show/Cena/Angle '04?


Punk/Kane/Bryan... don't remember Show/Cena/Angle being anything more than good. Think it was the last time Cena tapped though... so it's special in that regard.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll give you something good about SD 2006 - the entire No Way Out PPV. :mark:

Up there with Canadian Stampede, Backlash 2000, No Way Out 2001 and Extreme Rules 2012 as one of the top 5 GOAT B-PPV's.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

2006 Smackdown had FINLAY, LOTS OF FINLAY, so is therefore the greatest year of Smackdown ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smackdown 2006 also has lots of crap like the Boogeyman, Vito crossdressing, The Miz, more diva search shit being spread all over both shows and the entire month of June was shit with all the star power gone in an instant. But the first five months are absolutely awesome, though. And the last couple of months get better. SD 03 > SD 06

And Cody, wherever you are, I just found that post of Sheamus/Orton being mentioned pretty fast:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/15444098-post2446.html


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I'll go with 2003 over 2006 by a slight margin as well. Brock was on fire that entire year, while the likes of Benoit/Eddie/Mysterio were tearing shit up on a week to week basis. Then you had Taker going out there and being awesome on top of Angle actually being okay, nothing really negative to say about it. 

Ugh, I hate to be the one who mentions this and beats it to death even more, but I've been watching Wrestlemania XXIX and I just checked out Punk/Taker.... Damn. Punk's dickish heel work at the beginning of the match and incorporating that into the main event WWE style propels it above and beyond a majority of the streak matches for me. I don't know what it is man, I just enjoyed that Punk/Taker match and the heat behind it more than any other Streak match besides the XXVI Michaels bout & MAYBE the XXV bout. Thought it was comfortably better than the Edge/Orton/Batista/HHH III bouts for sure. XXVII Vs HHH though? I'll defend that match as long as I live, & it's probably 4th on my streak list behind HBK I, Punk, & HBK II. I seriously don't know what I'd put as MOTY at this point man, it's insane.

Moving away from this topic so we don't have another repeat discussion, umm..... Fuck. Going to watch the other two main events now, hopefully I somehow enjoy Rock-Cena II.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2005 Raw + 2003 SD = GOAT year.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Sandrone, I think it's best not to remember anything from RAW in 2003.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Besides Mark Henry that is.

He fucking ruled.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Yeah I'll go with 2003 over 2006 by a slight margin as well. Brock was on fire that entire year, while the likes of Benoit/Eddie/Mysterio were tearing shit up on a week to week basis. Then you had Taker going out there and being awesome on top of Angle actually being okay, nothing really negative to say about it.
> 
> Ugh, I hate to be the one who mentions this and beats it to death even more, but I've been watching Wrestlemania XXIX and I just checked out Punk/Taker.... Damn. Punk's dickish heel work at the beginning of the match and incorporating that into the main event WWE style propels it above and beyond a majority of the streak matches for me. I don't know what it is man, I just enjoyed that Punk/Taker match and the heat behind it more than any other Streak match besides the XXVI Michaels bout & MAYBE the XXV bout. Thought it was comfortably better than the Edge/Orton/Batista/HHH III bouts for sure. XXVII Vs HHH though? I'll defend that match as long as I live, & it's probably 4th on my streak list behind HBK I, Punk, & HBK II. I seriously don't know what I'd put as MOTY at this point man, it's insane.


Know you don't want to go into a discussion, but just saying it's great seeing someone else rate the Punk streak match that highly (top 3 streak).

And it's still comfortably my MOTY, although the year as a whole has been awesome.



> 2005 Raw + 2003 SD = GOAT year.


For me, it would be 2006 Raw and 2003 SD for GOAT year. 2006 Raw was a lot of fun with Edge as the top heel (and one of the best in that regard ever imo), with RVD getting a nice push up, DX reforming (I liked their stuff in 2006), Rated RKO, Edge/Cena, GOD/McMahonism (for the hilarity), and well... it was the best year for Raw since the brand split. 

And SD 2003 is not only flat-out entertaining like the above, but it also had loads of awesome wrestling. That's the greatest brand-year imo.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Lord Flvcko said:


> The Sandrone, I think it's best not to remember anything from RAW in 2003.


Mark Henry was mentioned earlier and we cant forget about Hollywood Rock. Easily some RAW 2003 gems.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I've always said that Hollywood Rock was the wrestling character that Dwayne Johnson was born to play. Complete arrogance all around and some of the best promo work the company has ever seen, can't complain one bit about his Hollywood run at all besides his matches with Hogan & Goldberg of course, which were complete trash.

Watching HHH-BROCK No Holds Barred now. When you put your emotions to the side and just enjoy the match it's actually pretty fucking awesome. They beat the tar out of each other and not once did it get gratuitous or anything like that. Felt that even though Punk-Taker ruled the earth, Brock was the MVP of Wrestlemania XXIX with his performance against the Game. I still don't like the idea of HHH being on offense for the last five minutes of the match as he should have been in more danger, but it's still an awesome bout but the worst of the series in my eyes. 

Was WWE's top 25 Summerslam matches mentioned on here yet? What a fucking terrible list. The worst list they've ever done actually, which is saying a fucking lot.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Was WWE's top 25 Summerslam matches mentioned on here yet? What a fucking terrible list. The worst list they've ever done actually, which is saying a fucking lot.


25. Shane McMahon vs. Test (1999)
24. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind (1999)
23. Virgil vs. Ted DiBiase (1991)
22. Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano (1994)
21. John Cena vs. Batista (2008)
20. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Owen Hart (1997)
19. Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude (1989)
18. Undertaker vs. Mankind (1996)
17. Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage (1992)
16. Hart Foundation vs. Demolition (1990)
15. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar (2012)
14. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Undertaker (1998)
13. Elimination Chamber: Jericho-Goldberg-Nash-Michaels-HHH-Orton (2003)
12. Undertaker vs. Bret Hart (1997)
11. Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero (2005)
10. The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar (2002)
9. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (1995)
8. John Cena vs. CM Punk (2011)
7. Undertaker vs. Edge (2008)
6. The Rock vs. Triple H (1998)
5. TLC 1: Edge & Christian vs. Dudley Boyz vs. Hardy Boyz (2000)
4. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (1994)
3. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (2002)
2. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (1991)
1. Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog (1992)

Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano - This got in, but no Austin/Angle :lol:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched orton/rvd/christian sd since ppl in the wwe section as jizzing over it.

- Decent match, nothing bad but not a MOTYC, started off alittle dull but picked up after RVD got the crowd into it. I love Orton scoopslam alittle more that the RKO these day so this one was pretty nice. Decent match with a :mark: winner Christian/del rio could be good.

Watching HBK: Heartbreak & Triumph atm, my favorite DOC for obvious reasons


Edit: I may be the only other person beside you Evan that enjoys HHH/BROCK I


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

zep81 said:


> *25. Shane McMahon vs. Test (1999)
> 24. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind (1999)
> 23. Virgil vs. Ted DiBiase (1991)
> 22. Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano (1994)*
> ...


Literally half of this list wouldn't make my list.

1 & 3 should be MUCH lower too. So many glaring omissions on one list that my head is going to explode.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I've always said that Hollywood Rock was the wrestling character that Dwayne Johnson was born to play. Complete arrogance all around and some of the best promo work the company has ever seen, can't complain one bit about his Hollywood run at all besides his matches with Hogan & Goldberg of course, which were complete trash.
> 
> Watching HHH-BROCK No Holds Barred now. When you put your emotions to the side and just enjoy the match it's actually pretty fucking awesome. They beat the tar out of each other and not once did it get gratuitous or anything like that. Felt that even though Punk-Taker ruled the earth, Brock was the MVP of Wrestlemania XXIX with his performance against the Game. I still don't like the idea of HHH being on offense for the last five minutes of the match as he should have been in more danger, but it's still an awesome bout but the worst of the series in my eyes.
> 
> Was WWE's top 25 Summerslam matches mentioned on here yet? What a fucking terrible list. The worst list they've ever done actually, which is saying a fucking lot.


Agreed. The run was way too short too. 

Hollywood Rock vs HBK in 2003 should have happened. Missed opportunity. lol @ those Hogan/Goldberg matches though. They were pretty bad. Only thing I got out of was Rock's hilarious heel work those nights. Something Ive always wanted to see was Face Brock vs Heel Rock in 2003 from a house show. Heard it was a pretty good match.

Ive always been a fan of Brock/HHH from Mania personally. Sure the crowd didn't help at times, but I have to agree on Brock's character work that night. Plus his Beast yell always gets me lol.










:lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I have no issues with the top 7. Shawn/Razor should be higher. Austin/Taker and Bret Taker shouldn't be that high, or even on it, imo. Orton/Christian should be on the list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So not only are their retarded Benoit exclusions there as usual, they have the nerve to omit Angle/Brock and Angle/Austin too? fpalm Definitely contender for worst list ever.

Also Raw 2004 >>>>>>>>

06 would have been fun if DX were not so annoying and all over the shows.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Agreed. The run was way too short too.
> 
> Hollywood Rock vs HBK in 2003 should have happened. Missed opportunity. lol @ those Hogan/Goldberg matches though. They were pretty bad. Only thing I got out of was Rock's hilarious heel work those nights. Something Ive always wanted to see was Face Brock vs Heel Rock in 2003 from a house show. Heard it was a pretty good match.
> 
> ...


Agreed, we ended up getting Rock/Austin III at XIX which is the greatest Rock performance in-ring ever (In my opinion of course), but I think that they really should have pulled the trigger on HBK-Rock. Wrestlemania XIX ended up being the greatest WWE PPV ever in my books, but to know that we could have gotten Lesnar-Austin in a passing of the torch match & HBK-Rock......

I love Brock-HHH & Punk-Cena from 2012 & 2011 respectively that I'd have them both in my top five Summerslam matches ever behind Austin-Angle & Brock-Angle I THINK. Might be forgetting an obvious match that I probably really, really enjoy.

Rock-Cena II is up next, may god have mercy on my soul.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Lesnar/HHH, Austin/Mankind/HHH, and EC 2003 shouldn't be on there, especially the EC.

Oh, and no Austin/Angle combined with that and some matches in spots I think are too high/low pretty much invalidates the list for me, and it's definitely the worst WWE list I can remember.

Raw 2004 was good, but the HBK/HHH feud dragged too long, Benoit's reign, while providing some great matches, was otherwise very unspectacular. Orton's Legend Killer heel run is the highlight of the year for Raw (and SD probably as well), but overall Raw 2004 definitely wouldn't be put above 2006 for me... and 2005, maybe 2008, 2010, and even 2012 (year was actually great if we can trim out the stuff the Raw after ER and Raw 1000). Also so far I've enjoyed 2013 more than 2004.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

2003 SD, GOAT. I think 2002 gets forgotten a lot though. Just as great as '03 imo. 

As for RAW it's definitely 2004 and 2006. I don't know why but 2006 gets absolutely no love. That's the year that brought us Foley/Edge and the epic Cena/Edge rivalry and it still gets no love? And I thought 2006 was a great year for the Cena character. Unfortunately, it was the year when the fans started to really boo him.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hollywood rock was a great heel character. I know it's cheap heat to make fun of the local sport team but he does it in a hilarious way. Just compare his work to when Miz makes fun of local sport teams. There is a big difference. As for his matches, I personally think they are all entertaining, even the 'bad' ones, mainly due to rock's heel antics. Even in the battle royal, it was a hilarious when he walked out to do commentary and then return back.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That dot com list is very.....odd. Been working my way through the Summerslams available to me these past few days (00-12) and there's a shit ton missing from that list and I'm only on 2005. I've been ranking them as I go along and my current number 1 is not what I was expecting to be in that spot at all. 

It's strange though, I've been so hyped for Summerslam 2013 and this past week all that excitement just completely disappeared. Hopefully with Raw on Monday it comes back. Brock is on the show so I'm thinking it will.

Raw and SD 2000 > all. Best year of wrestling from TV to PPV by a mile as far as I'm concerned. They just hit their stride that year and had the perfect blend of talent from the top of the card to the bottom. The GOAT wrestling year. 

And yeah, Hollywood Rock ruled the world in 2003. One of my favourite wrestling characters of all time. The Hurricane promos still crack me up. :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hollywood Rock was awesome (definitely by far the best part of Raw 2003), but my favorite Rock would still be Corporate Rock/all of 1999 Rock, back before he was Hyper-Rock (for lack of a better term  ). His cool, calm delivery, despite the monotone voice it was always delivered in, always got me and I could listen to him do an "It doesn't matter..." over and over and over again like that, as opposed to The Rock of today, where despite the energy and fluctuation of his voice, it just work out as well.

Speaking of "it doesn't matter"... this is my favorite one:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched Rock/Cena II & here are my thoughts;

It still sucks.

But you know what? As much as it pains me to say this, this really could have been good if you cut out bits and pieces of it here and there. It's the perfect example of a match that suffers from oversaturation more than anything else. The Rock performing a DDT after about 80 finishers in a row is one of the most mind blowingly frustrating things I've ever seen, and if they had to finish the match with any of the earlier FINISHERZ it would have been fine.

Rock's "I really don't wanna be here" face when he salutes Cena is fucking hilarious though, and I'll always love the match due to the end result being a culmination of my complete RAGE towards the Rock in 2013.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

It seemed both guys weren't "into" they're match at WM 29. Both facial expressions seemed dull and didn't give a crap. There was definitely a booking change that both guys didn't like. **1/4

On a side note, I really enjoyed they're WM 28 match. I find it underrated on here. It actually gets close to the 4 star rating for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock/Cena II is bad, but I'm not as low on it as many others are. It was still somewhat enjoyable and it's still kinda amazing (from a kayfabe perspective) when Cena kicks out of the third Rock Bottom. It's certainly not the worst match at that Mania (*coughLESNAR/HHHandHENRY/RYBACKcough*), and not the worst Main Event at Mania (*coughCENA/MIZ,TAKER/SID,BATISTA/HHH,andsomehoganonesmaybecough*).

Their Mania 28 match is great and gets ***1/2. Rock's best match of his 2011-present run, although funny enough I'd put the WM29 match as the worst. In fact, to rank his matches during this past run:

(***1/2)
1) Rock/Cena WM28
(***1/4)
2) Punk/Rock EC 13
(***)
3) Punk/Rock RR 13 (fuck da haters!)
(**1/4)
4) Rock-Cena/Awesome Truth
(**)
5) Rock/Cena WM29


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Hollywood Rock was awesome (definitely by far the best part of Raw 2003), but my favorite Rock would still be Corporate Rock/all of 1999 Rock, back before he was Hyper-Rock (for lack of a better term  ). His cool, calm delivery, despite the monotone voice it was always delivered in, always got me and I could listen to him do an "It doesn't matter..." over and over and over again like that, as opposed to The Rock of today, where despite the energy and fluctuation of his voice, it just work out as well.
> 
> Speaking of "it doesn't matter"... this is my favorite one:


Noticed this video too, funny seeing Rock and HBK 'together', and love it when HBK says "Cut MY music"


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

What about Rocky Maivia's first heel promo? "Rocky Maivia may be a lot of them but sucks isn't one of them". Matchwise, Rocky Maivia's best matches in 1997 were against Hunter Hearst Helmsey (the title match and the rematch on In Your House: Four way) and his match with Vader.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

RAW in 2005 and 2006 was unbearable thanks to this guy :cena. On the level of 1999 WCW. Maybe even lower. Smackdown wasn't too good either :batista2.

Evan, where's that Henry list? :henry1


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How dare some of you insult Raw 2005? :HHH

Match quality is scarily close to 2004's, and segments were so, so much win that year. 06 was good, perhaps the roughest, most 'Atttitude'-styled year of the RA era for Raw, but it had a little too much crap.

Though let's be honest - 2013 might be in Top 10 territory already :vince2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> How dare some of you insult Raw 2005? :HHH
> 
> Match quality is scarily close to 2004's, and segments were so, so much win that year. 06 was good, perhaps the roughest, most 'Atttitude'-styled year of the RA era for Raw, but it had a little too much crap.
> 
> Though let's be honest - 2013 might be in Top 10 territory already :vince2


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Noticed this video too, funny seeing Rock and HBK 'together', and love it when HBK says "Cut MY music"


lol HBK's reaction for Rock saying Bret's catchphrase fucking owns :lmao 



xdoomsayerx said:


> It seemed both guys weren't "into" they're match at WM 29. Both facial expressions seemed dull and didn't give a crap. There was definitely a booking change that both guys didn't like. **1/4
> 
> On a side note, I really enjoyed they're WM 28 match. I find it underrated on here. It actually gets close to the 4 star rating for me.


I dont think there was a change at all tbh. Its a weird thing but I am positive they knew what was going to happen that night.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

finished Heartbreak and Trumpiah, still my favorite DOC with only punk's, bret/shawn and bret's wrestling in shadows coming close. Love hearing about the rocker years and his early 90s years with sherri. Want to watch some midnight rockers now


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, finished rewatching the Top 25 Rivalries DVD, and that Von Erichs/Gordy & Roberts is still so much fun.

Also, the more Renee Young I get, the better :yum:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The whole XXIX debacle felt rushed as all hell. Hell, there wasn't even an announcement of the match or a pre match video package before the bout, the entrances happened, the match happened, and that was about all she wrote. That's what happens when you book your main event three years before it happens; if it comes to a point where you kinda don't wanna do it, it's going to be lazily put together. Looking forward to something FRESH in the main event of the big show next year; we've been dealing with Rock/Cena for basically XXVII, XXVIII, & XXIX so I believe it's time that we let a few others get their way into the main event. If Rock doesn't come back, I'm convinced that the main event will be Cena/Punk/Bryan or Cena/Punk/Orton or something like that with Brock/Taker as the co-main event.

I don't know what to do with the Henry list, TBH. It's done, but I don't know if I wanna post it in parts or anything. Think I wanna post it in YEAH1993 style in a spoiler and just be like "Yeah, there's my list.. Enjoy" or some shit like that. That decision is probably because it'd be IMPOSSIBLE to find pictures for most of these matches :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why would their be a video package? They highlighted Cena, then Rock, then both all throughout the night. It was built that was instead of shown another pointless video for the pointless match.

And RAW in 2005 was awesome. Matt freakin Hardy.

EDIT ~ I'm not surprised I did that, C2D. My memory of it now is a lot better considering the original viewing was a lazy TV watch back when it originally aired. Watched it again a few days ago and whew. That shit is *bad*. Glad I did; knew there was a reason I only remembered the finish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I don't know what to do with the Henry list, TBH. It's done, but I don't know if I wanna post it in parts or anything. Think I wanna post it in YEAH1993 style in a spoiler and just be like "Yeah, there's my list.. Enjoy" or some shit like that. That decision is probably because it'd be IMPOSSIBLE to find pictures for most of these matches :lol.


Pics are EASY to find for everything that happened from 2005 onwards.

Here's an example: http://wwe.com/shows/smackdown/archive/05262006/photos


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So I just watched every fight Brock Lesnar had in UFC. Big mistake. I should have waited until after Summerslam.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If y'all could give DEM STAR RATINGZ to promos, what would your ***** ones be?

Imo at the top of my head:

Austin 3:16
Cane Dewey
This Is Your Life
Punk Shoot
Punk/Heyman after MITB


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Every Mick Foley, CM Punk, Eddie Kingston, & Tim Donst promo.

Hogan's heel turn promo from Bash at the Beach 1996 always gives me goosebumps too. THIS IS...THE NEW WORLD ORDER OF PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, BROTHER.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

*Triple H vs. Kevin Nash (12/18/2011)-*****
-I know I say this a lot but it’s a thing of beauty to see how well in shape Nash is for his age. I thought they told a very good story, bought the physicality and worked at a good pace. HHH goes for the knees of Big Sexy; that Ladder Figure 4 Leg Lock was nice. I liked how they focused more on hurting each other rather than immediately going for the sledgehammer. Very nice spot where HHH used the sledgehammer to bash Nash in the head and send him off the ladder through the table. I also like how they covered the Pedigree botch by going back to Nash’s leg damage and the finish was well done; Only thing this match missed was a Jacknife Powerbomb (I love that move). Underrated match IMHO.

Much like Smackdown's 2010 MITB Ladder match, this showed that you don't need a bunch of crazy spots to have a great stipulation match, both styles can co-exist.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Matt_Yoda said:


> *Triple H vs. Kevin Nash (12/18/2011)-*****
> -I know I say this a lot but it’s a thing of beauty to see how well in shape Nash is for his age. I thought they told a very good story, bought the physicality and worked at a good pace. HHH goes for the knees of Big Sexy; that Ladder Figure 4 Leg Lock was nice. I liked how they focused more on hurting each other rather than immediately going for the sledgehammer. Very nice spot where HHH used the sledgehammer to bash Nash in the head and send him off the ladder through the table. I also like how they covered the Pedigree botch by going back to Nash’s leg damage and the finish was well done; Only thing this match missed was a Jacknife Powerbomb (I love that move). Underrated match IMHO.
> 
> Much like Smackdown's 2010 MITB Ladder match, this showed that you don't need a bunch of crazy spots to have a great stipulation match, both styles can co-exist.




:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> If y'all could give DEM STAR RATINGZ to promos, what would your ***** ones be?
> 
> Imo at the top of my head:
> 
> ...



This is your life: *****
Austin 3:16: ****3/4
Punk shoot: ****1/2
Punk/Heyman: ***1/2


Wyatts debut promo gets 5 stars for me. If you REALLY pay attention he's taking about Kane the entire time in his debut: 

"there aint no thing as a hero" why are you trying to be a face, playing to the crowd.."you think you need somebody to pat you on the back" Daniel Bryan.

."the man who made you is a liar" Paul Bearer..

"your own flesh and blood turned his back on you" the undertaker

Wyatt was talking to Kane the whole time.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> :lmao :lmao :lmao


Disagreeing is fine, however there is no need to resort to juvenile ignorance especially within the context of this thread's discussion.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Alundra Blayze vs. Bull Nakano - This got in, but no Austin/Angle :lol:


To be fair to Blayze/Nakano it's a good match and better than a bunch of other stuff on the list. Doesn't excuse the Austin/Angle omission, but yeah, it's far from the worst match on there. IIRC, anyway. I mean I'd be surprised if a Bull Nakano match that I thought was good before I knew she was Bull "Fucking" Nakano isn't as good as a mediocre Edge propfest HIAC or the Rock/HHH ladder match I've always hated.



I've given up trying to do the best of 2000s worldwide thing because of a few reasons, but I want to do some kind of list. I reckon I'll go with best WWE matches of 2010. A good batch of variety, tons of solid matches, and most of them from Rey Mysterio. So that's a win. I've never been a countdown list guy, I'm more of a 'add as I watch and have people see it' dude, so this'll be ongoing where I watch a match and just add to the list which I'll just post 'updates' of whenever I add something. Right now I'm thinking of a top 25, with Other Contenders or Honourable Mentions or whatever bullshit heading I'll put there. The fun thing with this is I have no idea what #1 would be, which is partly why I'm doing it. I have a good idea of a dozen or so matches that could wind up in the top 10, but if someone asked me to put them in order right now there's no way I could do it. I'm actually going to watch every 2010 PPV in their entirety for this, but the TV matches is where the shit is at. Should be fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I definitely wouldn't go **** for it but yeah HHH/Nash Ladder was a big time sleeper for my books.

Totally forgot about Hogan's heel turn as ***** promos go. Also, CM Punk's "I am the Devil himself" ROH promo was absolute mastermind.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

This is another ***** promo for me.






"Do you think that makes me... HAPPY?!" :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nash/HHH somehow turned out to be the best match these two ever had together. LOL at Nash's chokeslam. "That's Taker's move". Awesome PPV that TLC was.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

ATF said:


> I definitely wouldn't go **** for it but yeah HHH/Nash Ladder was a big time sleeper for my books.
> 
> Totally forgot about Hogan's heel turn as ***** promos go. Also, CM Punk's "I am the Devil himself" ROH promo was absolute mastermind.


Nah I hear you on HHH/Nash, it's not for everyone and I rate matches a lot differently compared to others so yeah.

Now for promos I'll always go back to Austin's Survivor Series '96 promo against Bret Hart. You can't convince me that wasn't excellence. It's a video promo yes but still so good.

I'll also throw in Jake Roberts' WM promo before his match with Ted DiBiase.

EDIT:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I know it's unfitting but do y'all prefer this:





or






:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt_Yoda said:


> Disagreeing is fine, however there is no need to resort to juvenile ignorance especially within the context of this thread's discussion.


Ignore him. He has a problem with comprehending different opinion and it's too bad. While I don't think as highly as you do on said match, I do like it. Which I can say was a full blown surprise. Really wasn't too bad; they smashed each other up and that's right given the context. It blew away some of their 2003 matches.



Yeah1993 said:


> To be fair to Blayze/Nakano it's a good match and better than a bunch of other stuff on the list. Doesn't excuse the Austin/Angle omission, but yeah, it's far from the worst match on there. IIRC, anyway. I mean I'd be surprised if a Bull Nakano match that I thought was good before I knew she was Bull "Fucking" Nakano isn't as good as a mediocre Edge propfest HIAC or the Rock/HHH ladder match I've always hated.
> 
> 
> 
> I've given up trying to do the best of 2000s worldwide thing because of a few reasons, but I want to do some kind of list. I reckon I'll go with best WWE matches of 2010. A good batch of variety, tons of solid matches, and most of them from Rey Mysterio. So that's a win. I've never been a countdown list guy, I'm more of a 'add as I watch and have people see it' dude, so this'll be ongoing where I watch a match and just add to the list which I'll just post 'updates' of whenever I add something. Right now I'm thinking of a top 25, with Other Contenders or Honourable Mentions or whatever bullshit heading I'll put there. The fun thing with this is I have no idea what #1 would be, which is partly why I'm doing it. I have a good idea of a dozen or so matches that could wind up in the top 10, but if someone asked me to put them in order right now there's no way I could do it. I'm actually going to watch every 2010 PPV in their entirety for this, but the TV matches is where the shit is at. Should be fun.


Watched Nakano vs Blaze about two days. Still fucking rad. Don't think there has been a better WWF/WWE women's match on TV since that. Maybe one of those short Aja Kong matches from '95 just b/c it is Aja f'n Kong.

I've tried the list thing and it wasn't working for me. I'm better off at simply making a grouping of what I like and that's that. I'll be waiting to see what tickles your fancy from 2010. Will we get another Masters vs Chavo from August write-up?  _(I know you disagreed, but that was like the only Chavo match I enjoyed that year. Nothing else is popping up. Wait, think he had two things vs Christian I liked.)_



ATF said:


> I definitely wouldn't go **** for it but yeah HHH/Nash Ladder was a big time sleeper for my books.
> 
> Totally forgot about Hogan's heel turn as ***** promos go. Also, CM Punk's "I am the Devil himself" ROH promo was absolute mastermind.


Best moment in ROH history right there. Only proved how Punk can command an audience one he has the mic in his hands.

_"These words that I speak spoken but anybody else are just words strung loosely together to form sentences. What I say I mean, and what I mean I say, and they become anthems."_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Second greatest ROH moment actually.

Nº1 is _*obviously*_ this.

Matt Taven, you lucky fucker for banging that. :homer


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That only tells you the level of where ROH used to be and where it is now. 

2005 - CM Punk wins the championship and turns heel in a promo that was like a jolt of lightning to every fan with its raw & shocking nature.

2013 - Scarlett Bordeaux has her shirt ripped off and it steals the PPV.

Times they are a changin'


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I thought the HHH vs Nash Ladder match was good considering who was in it. I think it's best to look at that match as a brawl/fight rather than a wrestling match/competition.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH/Nash ladder match is easily their most enjoyable together. I actually liked it and I can't say the same about either of those shitty matches from Judgment Day and Bad Blood 2003.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Nash/HHH ladder match sucked balls. Best match together was HIAC and that sucked as well.

5 star promo? Austin 3:16, Punk pipe bomb... that's all I got off the top of my head.mop


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> That only tells you the level of where ROH used to be and where it is now.
> 
> 2005 - CM Punk wins the championship and turns heel in a promo that was like a jolt of lightning to every fan with its raw & shocking nature.
> 
> ...


And yet they're still far more reckognizable than current NWA though.

Oh great Lord how the mighty have fallen.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I didn't much care for the Sledgehammer on a pole match. Didn't want Nash anywhere near the ring. I did enjoy the HIAC in 2003 a little bit, gave it ***.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> I've tried the list thing and it wasn't working for me. I'm better off at simply making a grouping of what I like and that's that. I'll be waiting to see what tickles your fancy from 2010. Will we get another Masters vs Chavo from August write-up?  _(I know you disagreed, but that was like the only Chavo match I enjoyed that year. Nothing else is popping up. Wait, think he had two things vs Christian I liked.)_


I absolutely plan to do write-ups on every match I watch (probably a little unrealistic given that I want to watch a hell of a fucking lot, but I'll try). Masters/Chavo should do very well; got a shot at the top ten I reckon. Didn't know Chavo faced Christian but that's awesome. Christian was still on his 2009 roll with the Regal, McIntyre, Zeke matches, etc and he had real good matches with much worse opponents than Chavo. Sucks to hell the injury derailed that 09/10 run. My GOD he was on fucking fire.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

5 Star promo list? I could just say "every foley promo ever" and leave it at that, but that would be no fun.

Here goes:

Mankind interview with J.R. were he tells Foley stories in character as Mankind
Dude Love interviews Mankind and Introduces Cactus Jack (still makes me feel goosebumps every time I see it, so great)
Cane Dewey Promo
Anti-Hardcore Promo ("Cause your dad traded in the victorian house for a sweatbox in LONG ISLAND"....epic)
"This is your life" with Mankind and the Rock
(i'm sure Foley has done some more 5-star promos but I'll just leave it at that)
The Austin 3:16 promo
CM Punk's turn at ROH in 2005
CM Punk's famous pipe bomb in June 2011
Hogan's turn at Bash at the Beach in 1996
Scott Hall's opening promo when he invaded WCW in 1996
Bret Hart's promo in 1997 where he turned heel (really, the fans had turned heel he was just acknowledging it)
The Rock's "Die Rocky Die" promo
Dusty Rhodes "Hard Times" Promo
Ric Flairs many promos about his material wealth
sure there are more that I'm forgetting....


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I was going to tell you Yeah to do a Rey 2010 list but since your doinga a top 2010 that pretty much the same thing 

5* promos

Majority of Ric Flair's


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I had Rey in 2010 planned, but yeah, overall would work just as well because of all of the other gems floating around the yar. I'll likely watch legitimately every Rey match the entire year anyway (I'm not exaggerating).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I'd do it without even doing a list theres a guy on YT that has all these gems


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sitting through Rey/Eddie at Summerslam. Not their best match I'm guessing, but Eddie just threw a tantrum when apparently Vickie missed a run-in. I'd believe it too since when Eddie pinned Rey under the ladder and took two minutes to climb it, then took forever to unhook the briefcase then Rey manages to kick the ladder out and Eddie's hanging then Rey pulls him down and Eddie starts pounding the mat and screaming at Charles Robinson, "Where the fuck was Vickie? God damn it!"


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Watching HBK: Heartbreak & Triumph atm, my favorite DOC for obvious reasons
> 
> 
> Edit: I may be the only other person beside you Evan that enjoys HHH/BROCK I



Great doc. One of my faves for sure. The Punk and Foley docs are my faves. 

I rewatched HHH/Brock I today and really liked it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea its was very good, Shawn was a GOD in the 90s and imo the coolest guy ever not named Ric Flair. I jsut got home from the movies but I'm going to get into alittle midnight rockers in a bit
--
Yea HHH/BROCK I gets too much flake on here. IMO best of the series and a decent match in itself, I dug the whole "perfect storm" thing so yea


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I find myself liking HBK more these days. I always respected him. I was never a hater but after the screw job it really bothered me he didnt just admit to it. Glad things are better with that now as Bret and Shawn are two of the giants in the business. 

I thought all 3 Brock/HHH matches were good. Fave was probably Summerslam. I wish the cage match would have been in the old school blue cage.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Foley doc is definitely my favorite, but if I had to choose a second and third it would be HBK's and then Chris Jericho's. The Stone Cold and Punk ones are also excellent. Pretty much all the documentary's I've seen are great, the Bret one i've seen about 100000 times hahaha.

Just re watched the Candian Stampede 10 man tag, man that was so much fun. I love everything about that entire PPV.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the 10 man tag I hold in high regard, I have it in the second tier of match under the first tier which is the hbk/takers bret/austins of the world


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Say what you will about Punk love him or hate him the dude is relentless and gets every last ounce of ability out of himself. It's inspiring. 

Main event of Canadian Stampede is flawless.....***** for me for sure....that crowd!

Jericho doc is good too. He is so damn talented. Chicks love him, Dudes wanna hang out with him, great on the mic, in the ring, etc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

This sounds so stupid to say but it's true, if I had to hang out with a wrestler in the WWE I'd prolly pick Jericho after having read both his books and seen his documentary. The guy is just incredibly talented and has managed to stay pretty humble throughout all of it.

Just watched the Jericho vs Benoit Ladder Match at Royal Rumble 2001. Fuck it, I'm gonna go ahead and say it, BEST LADDER MATCH EVER, full 5-star classic in my book. Shawn and Razor's 2 were great, incredible, AMAZING matches, but nothing tops Jericho vs Benoit for me. That spot were Benoit does a superman dive out of the ropes and Jericho meets him with a chair shot to the head while he's flying through the air? SO EFFING SICK. I just love everything about this match.

Whats your guys opinion?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm sure Jericho would be fun to hang out with. Think of the ass you would pull hanging out with Jericho. 

I'd love to pick Sting's brain for a little bit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> And yet they're still far more reckognizable than current NWA though.
> 
> Oh great Lord how the mighty have fallen.


Well the NWA doesn't even have a recognizable company to fall back on. That's understandable. The NWA has basically been dead and buried once they broke away from WCW until they joined TNA. Then in 2007 it was back into falling off the map. Pardon the times when a few of their championships actually got exposure. Adam Pearce being in ROH during 2007/2008 helped put some life on their major strap. iirc the Killer Elite Squad are the current NWA Tag Team Champions. I don't know how to see the matches, but I'd love to check 'em out. KES are wicked good.



Yeah1993 said:


> I absolutely plan to do write-ups on every match I watch (probably a little unrealistic given that I want to watch a hell of a fucking lot, but I'll try). Masters/Chavo should do very well; got a shot at the top ten I reckon. Didn't know Chavo faced Christian but that's awesome. Christian was still on his 2009 roll with the Regal, McIntyre, Zeke matches, etc and he had real good matches with much worse opponents than Chavo. Sucks to hell the injury derailed that 09/10 run. My GOD he was on fucking fire.


Radical. I think it is an attainable goal. Yeah, it's a lot. But if the match peaks enough interest than I think a write-up on each match is going to work.

Chavo vs Christian was Superstars 4/15. I liked the Chavo & Dolph vs Christian handicap match too. There was also a match on Superstars 9/2 vs Kofi Kingston that shocked me at how solid it was. Not so much from Chavo b/c I expect him to be fine, but from Kofi. It wasn't "omg" level good, but pretty good for what was given. Mainly b/c both sold well. Forgot how much I liked Chavo vs Kaval on Smackdown too. Most of his other matches were all pretty bleh. Not his fault. He was given guys like MVP, JTG, & Santino to work with often. He tried his best. Oof, that MVP match from Superstars is SO bad.

I'm looking at Christian's 2010 right now and I legit don't see a bad match in the bunch. Maybe a random NXT tag vs Truth & Otunga. Other than that it's all pretty great or solid. His final bit on ECW for the first two months is unreal. Then he goes to smackdown and has four matches vs McIntyre. :mark:

btw, two random matches from Superstars I'm big on and I think you could possibly dig is Bourne vs Carlito _(Yes, Carlito...)_ & Gallows vs Archer. Gosh, I loved those two.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched the street fight between Triple H and Umaga at Cyber Sunday. Wow was that surprisingly great. Just a solid effort by both wrestlers, Umaga more than held his own, and these two did some tremendous brawling up and down the aisle and around the ring. The highlight of the match was Umaga running across 2 of the 3 announce tables, leaping into the air, then splashing Triple H who was laid out on the 3rd announce table. I give this bout ***3/4*. I don't want to give it the full **** because I feel like 4-stars and up should be reserved for the truly "special" bouts, but Umaga and Trips definitely delivered during this match.

Next up, Chris Jericho vs Triple H, Last Man Standing, Full Loaded 2000. Amazingly, I've never seen this match even though I'm a huge Jericho mark, I'm pretty excited.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Street Fight didn't hold up at all. I'd comfortably say it sucks for a simple straight to the point conclusive term on my end. Typical Triple H gimmick crap without a properly motivated Umaga to help things along.

I do agree with you on the Jericho vs Benoit ladder match. Always thought that was the greatest ladder match the WWF/WWE ever produced.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Just watched the street fight between Triple H and Umaga at Cyber Sunday. Wow was that surprisingly great. Just a solid effort by both wrestlers, Umaga more than held his own, and these two did some tremendous brawling up and down the aisle and around the ring. The highlight of the match was Umaga running across 2 of the 3 announce tables, leaping into the air, then splashing Triple H who was laid out on the 3rd announce table. I give this bout ***3/4*. I don't want to give it the full **** because I feel like 4-stars and up should be reserved for the truly "special" bouts, but Umaga and Trips definitely delivered during this match.
> 
> Next up, Chris Jericho vs Triple H, Last Man Standing, Full Loaded 2000. Amazingly, I've never seen this match even though I'm a huge Jericho mark, I'm pretty excited.


Fully Loaded match is damn fine. Need to rewatch it for my Trips project but I remember loving it when I saw it a while back. 

Cyber Sunday with Umaga was pretty good. I have it at ***1/2.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Next up, Chris Jericho vs Triple H, Last Man Standing, Full Loaded 2000. Amazingly, I've never seen this match even though I'm a huge Jericho mark, I'm pretty excited.


Second fave LMS match I've seen next to Rock/Foley Valentines Day 1999


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Expect Jericho to steal the show there. It's still a tad bit overrated for my tastes considering the scale it's put on.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/razor is my favorite match of all time along with hbk/flair so IMO its the best ladder match. HHH/umaga was pretty good


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm surprised you hated the Umaga Trips Street Fight so much Hayley, I didn't see anything wrong with it and it had me entertained from start to finish. I haven't seen a ton of Umaga's work, I'm considering trying to find some other stuff from him after watching that match.

Oh my goodness was that Fully Loaded 2000 an awesome match. Trips vs Jericho Last Man Standing gets the full 4-stars from me, that was a seriously great bout. The double TV monitor spot was great, and Trips working the body throughout the match made a lot of sense after watching the build. Y2J putting the Walls on Stephanie was a riot. I didn't see a single botch, and there weren't any rest holds that I'm aware of. I don't think I would change anything about this one (other than maybe the finish, it woulda been nice to see Y2J go over). Just 2 very talented wrestlers at the peak of their skills. I think this is the second best LMS match I've seen behind Foley vs Rock St. Valentines Day Massacre 1999 (Although I didn't like the finish in that bout as much).

I can understand people putting HBK/Razor ahead of Benoit/Jericho, it's all just personal preference really both matches are classics you can't go wrong.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I miss Umaga!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's just a blandness about Triple H & WWE gimmick matches in general that turns me off. It isn't very much fun to watch and it's usually very dull. Not every gimmick match, just the batch that think they should go out and use a few weapons, do a table spot and it's supposed to be good. Those are the matches that scream for storyline progression and logical point a to point b transitions to up the intensity and instead they're random bits of actions tied together to create a "match". Far too often I prefer matches without the gimmicks. Using the Triple H vs Umaga street fight is purely one example. Umaga was a boss btw. A wonderful big man bruiser with great athletic ability. The modern day Bam Bam Bigelow of sorts. He stole the show in 2007 vs Cena at the Royal Rumble. Match of his career, tbhayley. The Jeff Hardy series is grand too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gotta agree with the Paramore fan here. I don't have a problem with a heel HHH in a gimmick match setting, but something about a face HHH is just infuriating. The man just doesn't know how to play a "work-from-under" sympathetic face at all. On top of that, he is not known for being a crazy high spots risktaker kind of guy, so he doesn't even have that going for him. HHH matches (and WWE gimmick matches in general) just feel like forced classics with little reason for me to care. Give me Ziggler/Rio Payback or Punk/Henry over 99% of WWE gimmick matches any time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The paradox to the final sentence is how Punk vs Henry in a gimmick match _(No DQ is light, although it counts)_ worked too. Of course that's no different once you put into play the wonderfully fleshed out characters such as a beast like heel in Henry and a great babyface who can come from behind in Punk. I think those matches vs Henry are a perfect example of how a babyface should work. In both context of a standard match and gimmick. Especially when you use the standard bout to lead into the need for the gimmick in the first place. Always have to rely on the basis to garner the purposeful intensity brought forth once weapons and more "hazardous" spots come into play to up the match. Punk as a babyface is a tad underrated in my books. Only thanks to the comparison to his work as a heel. I sort of floated off into a new tangent here. Oh well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Umaga/Jeff Cage match is pure boss.

Mankind/Fake Dude Love - Best 10 seconds match ever. unk2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Speaking of great babyfaces: Jeff Hardy. :mark:

scary to think Matt has had performances that could have his brother trumped. They're so good.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Jeff Hardy was an awesome babyface. I don't like the way people rag on him, saying he is shit in the ring, crap on the mic, a spot monkey etc. because he wasn't. Jeff Hardy has had some damn good matches and whilst his promo work wasn't the best, as he matured in his WWE run it became considerably better. As for him being a spot monkey...when he was younger he was more of a spot monkey than since he returned to WWE, but he's had some good matches where he hasn't needed to pull off crazy spots. His selling was realistic, he worked well with a variety of people and he really made fans care about him. Underrated on a whole imo - whilst not a top talent all-around, his babyface work is undeniable. I for one _loved_ when he finally got his WWE Title run, and I would say that was probably the last babyface WWE Title win that I really cared about. Yes, I love all of Punk's face work in 2011 when he won the title off Cena and off of Del Rio, but I don't think you can call CM Punk a 'babyface'. He's definitely a face, but it's not that clear cut imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If only he was just a little more clever in the ring and used a bit less OMGFLASHY in his arsenal. Imho, I enjoy both a lot but I always found Matt far superior to Jeff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jeff Hardy's selling has always been one of his finest point. If not the finest only rivaled by the natural charisma he brings as a lad you want to root on every chance you see him. He didn't need to be clever, that wasn't his bag. Matt's yes; not Jeff's per say. That's like saying Danielson needs to be more flashy. Or Foley needed to add more submissions. Everyone plays to their strengths. Jeff's was flash and utilizing the appealing moveset to fans to help him remain increasingly over with his brand of high octane wrestling.

I don't see how Punker couldn't be dubbed as "babyface". Besides, saying "face" & "babyface" is splitting hairs. It's the same thing. Punk can garner tremendous sympathy while on the defensive in a match. That's almost top babyface quality number one right there. It's why Triple H & Randy Orton are so horrid in that position. It never comes to pass with either man.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah you have a point and if the HHH matches are any indication, Jeff knows how to sell. But then you wonder that if he didn't perform with as big of a flashy style and a more Chris Jericho-esque arsenal which imo fits him very well, he actually could be even better. There's always room for improvement and even some of the GOAT's had their own specific flaws, and Jeff's would be that I guess. But maybe this is just the aftereffects of watching his matches after putting myself through TNA Angle stuff. :kurt

Speaking of the Hardys, I suggest y'all take a look if ya haven't at the Cade & Murdoch matches from Backlash and Judgment Day '07. Really good stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tag match vs Cade & Murdoch was always my favorite of the night from Backlash 2007. Great match. (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was really good yeah, but my favorite of the night from Backlash 2007 was the 2nd best 4-way match in WWE history:

:cena4 vs :hbk vs :edge vs rton


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

What is the first? My mind has gone blank and I can only think of the Wrestlemania 2000 and Backlash 2008 main events at the moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Final Four.

Backlash '07 match only is ranked that high b/c there has only been about four good Fatal Four Way matches in company history, tbf.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Final Four 

Agree with the post above .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TheeJayBee said:


> What is the first? My mind has gone blank and I can only think of the Wrestlemania 2000 and Backlash 2008 main events at the moment.


and.....................The Final Four


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Ah, of course! It's been a long time since I saw that. I only really remember Canadian Stampede, the Screwjob, Austin breaking his neck, Austin/Bret and the stuff with Bearer/Taker/Kane from 1997 in the WWE, along with a couple other things. Could do with a re-watch of everything.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Owen Hart vs Bulldog from RAW 3/31/1997 is still a good match but not as good as their previous one in Berlin. After the match, Bret Hart comes out and cuts a really good promo on how Americans don't understand family values because they have talk shows showing families breaking up and how the American crowds have caused the Hart family to fight each other. This was the start of the New Hart Foundation stable as well


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

More *Manhunt For Mankind* to contribute for my Top 100 WWF/E Foley matches list led me to a great gem - Mankind/Rock/Shamrock Steel Cage from Breakdown. (Y)


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Wasn't that in the old blue cage? I have that match on a Tagged Classics DVD, I'm sure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes it was. Pretty intense and sick of a match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Final Four is amazing. So happy that was released on the In Your House set. 

I dont think Ive ever seen this Rock/Shamrock/Mankind cage match in the blue cage. I thought the last match in the blue cage was Mankind/ HHH at Summerslam 97. Glad I'm wrong. Is there a link to this match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Last blue cage match in WWE was like, 2001 I think. Well, the cage was black but it was just the blue cage with a different colour . Edge Vs Christian at Rebellion. Apparently bringing over the normal cage to the UK was too much hassle :side:.

Rock/Mankind/Shamrock match is fun. Lotsafun.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I've yet to see the Backlash fatal four way to this day. 

Gonna watch some random ass matches today from that Wrestlemania pack I downloaded since April and have only watched one match from it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Final Four is amazing. So happy that was released on the In Your House set.
> 
> I dont think Ive ever seen this Rock/Shamrock/Mankind cage match in the blue cage. I thought the last match in the blue cage was Mankind/ HHH at Summerslam 97. Glad I'm wrong. Is there a link to this match?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

zep81 said:


>


thank you sir

Edit...I fucking own this match on the newest Rock match. Sweet! All that proves is I dont watch enough rasslin....I think this is the same PPV Edge and Owen had a match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

never seen final four corners 4 match, hate to be that guy but is isnt it time for a NEW THREAD ? Didnt the last one end around this length


----------

